Podcasts about Cabernet

In this episode of Five Questions with a Winemaker, presented by the Vint Marketplace, we sit down with Stephen and Prue Henschke, sixth-generation vintners of Henschke Wines—one of Australia's most revered estates. From Eden Valley Riesling to the legendary Hill of Grace Shiraz, the Henschkes have helped define fine wine in Australia.Stephen and Prue share:

Amid news of oversupply and decreased demand, the wine industry has an opportunity to adapt to the changing market. Audra Cooper, Director of Grape Brokerage, and Eddie Urman, Central Coast Grape Broker at Turrentine Brokerage, discuss key grape and wine industry trends, from oversupply and vineyard removals to the growing necessity of sustainable certification. They explore regional dynamics, bulk wine market shifts, and future trends, emphasizing innovation, industry collaboration, and better marketing to stay competitive. Resources:         REGISTER: 4/5/25 Fungicide Spraying: Evolving Strategies & Grower Insights Tailgate 258: 5 Ways Certification Makes Brands the SIP | Marketing Tip Monday 259: Winegrape Market Trends of 2024 265: How to Stand Out on Social Media in 2025 268: How to Tackle Leadership Transitions Successfully Turrentine Brokerage Turrentine Brokerage - Newsletter Vineyard Team Programs: Juan Nevarez Memorial Scholarship - Donate SIP Certified – Show your care for the people and planet   Sustainable Ag Expo – The premiere winegrowing event of the year Vineyard Team – Become a Member Get More Subscribe wherever you listen so you never miss an episode on the latest science and research with the Sustainable Winegrowing Podcast. Since 1994, Vineyard Team has been your resource for workshops and field demonstrations, research, and events dedicated to the stewardship of our natural resources. Learn more at www.vineyardteam.org.   Transcript [00:00:00] Beth Vukmanic: Amid news of oversupply and decreased demand, the wine industry has an opportunity to adapt to the changing market. [00:00:11] Welcome to Sustainable Wine, growing with the Vineyard team, where we bring you the latest in science and research for the wine industry. I'm Beth Vukmanic executive director. [00:00:22] In today's podcast, Craig McMillan, critical resource Manager at Niner Wine Estates. With Longtime SIP Certified Vineyard, and the first ever SIP certified winery speaks with Audra Cooper, director of Grape Brokerage and Eddie Urman, central Coast Grape Broker At Turrentine Brokerage, [00:00:41] they discuss key grape and wine industry trends from oversupply to vineyard removals to the growing necessity of sustainable certification. They explore regional dynamics, bulk wine market shifts and future trends. Emphasizing innovation, industry collaboration, and better marketing to stay competitive. [00:01:01] If you love infield education and are on California Central Coast on April 25th, 2025, please join us at the fungicide spring tailgate hosted at Cal Poly. In San Luis Obispo, California, Dr. Shunping Ding will share updated results from a 2024 study on fungicide programs using bio fungicides and their impact on grape yield and berry chemistry. Then we'll visit the Cal Poly Vineyard to explore new powdered mildew management technologies and discuss fungicide spraying programs. With farmers from throughout the central coast to register, go to vineyard team.org/events or look for the link in the show notes. [00:01:44] Craig Macmillan: Our guests today are Audra Cooper. She's Director of Grape Brokerage with Turrentine Brokerage. And also, Eddie Urman, who's Central Coast Grape Broker with Turrentine Brokerage as well. And thanks for coming back. This is part two of a, of a, of an episode here. So, I really appreciate you folks making time to come back. [00:02:00] Audra Cooper: Thank you for having us back. We're excited to join you once again. [00:02:04] Eddie Urman: Yeah, thanks for having us. [00:02:05] Craig Macmillan: So Audra, let's start with you. In our last conversation . [00:02:17] And that was kind of where we left it that then started a conversation amongst the three of us afterward. We were like, okay, there's a lot more to talk about here. So let's do it. [00:02:24] Can you give some examples of what you mean by getting ahead of changes? [00:02:30] Audra Cooper: I think it's a sound business strategy to always try and stay ahead of the curve regardless of what component of business or what industry you're in, right? It's just a, a good strategy to have and a good philosophy to have. It's really important in this industry to continue to stay relevant and in order to stay relevant, you have to stay within the trend or ahead of the trend. [00:02:51] Being behind the eight ball is, never a good thing . You need to be ahead of the curve. A good example of that is sustainable certification. And we still have these discussions on the daily and Eddie, you can talk to this too about how often we have to talk about if you're not sustainably certified, you are cutting your buyer pool, probably roughly in half, as I mentioned in the previous podcast, and you're limiting yourself. [00:03:18] And the majority of the practices, most growers are probably already doing, and they're just not going through the certification process and getting that done. And if you look back a little over a decade ago, it was something that wineries were paying, you know, 25, 50 per ton more for, they were paying a premium. [00:03:36] And then it became more of a, this is really nice to have. And so more and more growers We're doing it as a point of differentiation in their marketing. And now today it's almost a necessity. It's no longer something that's necessarily going to get you a premium price for your grapes. It's also not necessarily a point of differentiation any longer. [00:03:55] It's a need to have. [00:03:57] Craig Macmillan: Yeah, Eddie, do you have anything to add to that? [00:03:59] Eddie Urman: No, I think that's a great example. , Audra offered up. [00:04:02] Craig Macmillan: So there's, trends around that, and there's a lot of certifications now, and I agree, I think a lot of folks don't need to be afraid of whatever the certification is, because you're probably doing a lot of those things already, a lot of common practices. [00:04:13] I think that's an interesting insight that now it's kind of becoming expected or certainly a requirement for a lot of wineries. [00:04:19] Let's talk about changes in acreage. That's where we left off last time when we were talking about the difference between vineyard removals, which have been suggested, recommended, et cetera, by a number of folks in the industry as we just are in oversupply period I've heard estimates that we may have 30 to 35, 000 acres of grapes, more than we need based on current demand. [00:04:40] how accurate do you think that is? , how bad is it on the supply side? [00:04:45] Audra Cooper: Well, I think you have a couple parts to that question, right? Let's dissect that a little bit and start with, we just got back from the Unified Wine Grape Symposium in Sacramento, and of course, during the State of the Industry, Jeff Bitter gave his annual synopsis of the nursery survey that they do annually on how many vines were sold, and they do a, A lot of data work in regards to what were removals and his number that he reported over the last two years was 37, 500 acres have been removed from the state of California. [00:05:15] He believes based on their research that another 50, 000 acres need to be removed to reach the point of balance, assuming that consumption stays at its current rate or drops just a tiny bit. [00:05:29] And when we look at our information internally, now we don't do a survey like Allied does, but we're tracking a lot of information, both with our winery partners as well as our grower partners in regards to who's doing what, and our number's a little bit higher, but we also go back four years technically going back to 2022, our number for the state of California is closer to about 50, 000 acres that have been removed, and, you know, I would argue that If consumption stays flat, certainly there will need more removals, but I don't know about 50, 000 acres more. [00:06:04] That seems like an awful lot of acres that need to be removed. If his numbers are right, that would put us back to Basically global recession numbers, which would be around 500, 000 acres bearing.  [00:06:16] Craig Macmillan: right. in the Grape Crush Report, which is an annual report that's put out by, uh, California Department Of Food and Agriculture and the National Agricultural Statistics Service, there is a non bearing acres section in there, which I always find very interesting. Are we able to glean anything from that data in terms of what's been sold, what we think's gonna go back in, et cetera? [00:06:39] I want to put a timestamp on this. So this is being recorded first week of February, 2025. So the unified was in 2025. The report that's coming out is going to be for the 2024 year. [00:06:48] What can we learn from that non bearing acreage report?  [00:06:51] Audra Cooper: So there's two different reports. the acreage report will be coming out a little bit later in the year. We're going to have our crush report come out on February 10. I think you can glean two pieces of information, but both are very similar. And that is how much acreage has actually been removed and how light the crop truly was, particularly in the coastal regions for 2024. [00:07:10] And so when we look at, for example, a 23 bearing and non bearing acreage information from the state of California they're reporting 446, 000 acres of bearing wine grapes. And if you take that at, say, 7 tons an acre, that's 3. 12 million tons. And we know with certainty at 7 tons an acre, That acreage seems pretty low. [00:07:35] It doesn't seem realistic. So unfortunately, because it's a voluntary report when it comes to bearing versus non bearing acres, I do think that the state's probably about two years behind on real data trends. And so unfortunately right now, if you were to use that report as, you know, an analysis of the industry, you'd probably be a bit off. [00:07:54] Craig Macmillan: got it, got it. Are there trends in what varieties are coming out and what varieties are going back in? Because that's often been the driving force for removals and replants, is chasing the marketplace. Are we seeing that kind of thing in California? [00:08:11] Audra Cooper: Yeah, you know, I'll I'll touch on this a little bit and then turn it over to Eddie. It's, it's really difficult to predict in our industry how and what and when to plant, right? Because you are following a trend and a trend that you're going to be lagging behind in trying to meet because of the amount of time it takes to get a crop and a crop that is productive. [00:08:31] And so oftentimes we're abridged, Yeah. Yeah. too far behind in regards to consumer trends. When we look at the central coast as a whole, there's certainly some segmented dynamics on what's being removed versus planted. And, you know, a good place to start, of course, is Paso. Eddie, do you want to talk a little bit more about that? [00:08:51] Eddie Urman: Yeah we do see some trends of, varieties, being pushed out more frequently than others. You know, for the Central Coast, a couple that come to mind are, Zin, Pinot Noir Merlot is one that historically came out. If it's still there, still going out, and then more specifically, old vines is probably the more specific categories. You are seeing a lot of Cab being pushed, that are old vines, but likely to go back into Cab if it gets replanted. [00:09:17] Audra Cooper: that's an interesting trend, because when we're looking at what was purchased based on the survey numbers that Jeff Bitter reported, he was talking about 12, 000 acres being planted based on their survey in 2024, and an overwhelming percentage was still red varietals, which really bucks the trend on what we're seeing observing boots on the ground. [00:09:41] What we've mainly been seeing planted are more alternative whites and niche whites like Grenache Blanc, Pinot Grigio Astrotico, you know, very specific alternative whites in which they're trending with DTC and kind of smaller producers. Certainly we still see some redevelopment of Cabernet as well as Pinot Noir and Chardonnay, not so much on the red blender side or Merlot. [00:10:06] Those seem to be being pulled out and not redeveloped. [00:10:09] Craig Macmillan: Are we seeing any changes or trends around Okay, I'm pushing out Cabernet. I'm going to replant Cabernet. , am I going to replant the same amount of Cabernet? Am I using this as an opportunity to plant new ground? Do we have any information about that kind of thing? [00:10:24] Audra Cooper: Yeah, I mean, to give you hard data would be challenging. I don't know that anyone really has, a hard, fast calculation of what they do and don't do in regards to, the varietal makeup of a redevelopment. And I do want to clarify, I think there's a common misconception, particularly in the coastal regions that This is new net acreage. [00:10:43] It's not new net acreage. A lot of this is redeveloped acreage, but it will be higher in productivity based on, you know, better vines, healthier vines, better spacing, new farming technology, and so forth. And so we'll have new net supply based off that acreage. In full production. When you look at the new developments, though, and it was save paso cab, for example, it's really difficult to say, Oh, well, let's do 50 percent cab and 50 percent red blenders. [00:11:14] I mean, that's a tough decision to make. And you're really making a a pretty risky bet. I think for most people, they're going to plant to the site and also to the trend in the market. And so oftentimes, for example, again, Paso Cab, you're still going to have Cabernet largely go back in on those redevelopments. [00:11:31] When you look at Santa Barbara County, I think they're diversifying a little bit more than they had been in the past. You're not largely just Chardonnay Pinot Cab. You're also seeing alternative reds and whites being planted in that area. Monterey County, when you look at that region, it tends to be a little bit more mixed bag, but still largely chardonnay then in the southern Monterey County area, cabernet and red blenders. [00:11:54] Craig Macmillan: Do you have anything to add to that, Eddie? [00:11:56] Eddie Urman: As far as the rate of what's going back in the ground, you know, in acres. I think as far as East Paso goes Monterey County, Santa Barbara County, we're seeing contraction as far as more acres coming out that are going back. The only area we do see more plantings that are new, it is in the West side of Paso. And it's substantial. I think there's a good amount of acres that have gone in the West side. [00:12:17] Being from the growing side, I think we always wanted to diversify away from Cabernet and Paso Robles specifically, but the reality is the majority of people still want to buy Cabernet. So if anything, I'm worried that growers expect other varieties to try to diversify their portfolio that might not match the demand. [00:12:37] Craig Macmillan: Right, right. And speaking of demand. , we're talking about land and grapes, what's the current state of the, the bulk wine market where you'd expect a lot of the sovers to go where are we kind of at and what do you think are going to be the impacts on the bulk wine market with the replanting? [00:12:53] Audra Cooper: currently right now, listed available with us is about 28 million gallons. We anticipate that it will climb to probably 30, maybe past 30 million gallons at the peak of listing this year, which is typically early summer. In large part, that's still 2023 vintage. However, we do still have some 21, 22, and of course now new 24 is being listed. [00:13:18] The rate of listing is not being eclipsed by the rate of, you know, attrition decline in regards to bulk wine being removed from the market, whether that's through sales or higher and better use internally for those who are listing it. So we still have an off kilter balance there and certainly dramatically an oversupply and that dynamics likely to continue for the next couple of years until we see consumption increase and, and therefore increasing demand for new products. [00:13:45] Typically when we've seen these large increases in availability, what's gotten us out of it is the negotiants who are developing new brands, particularly when we look back to the premiumization sector. We saw a lot of middle tiers, you know, the likes of Duckhorn and Joel Gott and several others who were growing programs that they may have had for a couple of years, but they were very small and they've broadened those to other Appalachians or California and went to the bulk market first to kind of grow those programs before they started grape contracting. [00:14:16] So we're going to need to start seeing that trend in order to clean that market up. [00:14:19] Craig Macmillan: And so that's, that's basically good news, you think, for the bulk wine supply going down the road. [00:14:23] Audra Cooper: I think. In the future, it is in the short term. It's rather painful to have that amount of availability, right? We've been tracking this for the better part of three decades, and there's never been a single calendar year in which we've carried this amount of inventory, particularly going into last harvest, it was the highest inventory we'd ever seen in our tracking. [00:14:44] Keep in mind that this is what's listed available for us. This is not going out and taking inventory of what everyone has in tank that they're not necessarily going to bottle or they don't have a program for. So you can easily maybe double that number and that's what the likely availability is. [00:15:03] Craig Macmillan: Eddie what do you think is going to happen with pricing on on bulk wine? Yeah, I know that you're a specialized in grapes. But obviously those growers are concerned about what's going to happen to those grapes. From the grower side, how attractive is it right now to turn product into bulk wine, do you think? [00:15:21] Eddie Urman: I would say it's very, very, very much not attractive. Uh, we would. Not advocate for that in most scenarios for growers at this time regarding bulk pricing, you know, bulk wine, obviously we have bulk people who have better insight than Audrey, but in general, it's not going to be good. We don't, we don't foresee an increase in price as. we're obviously seeing an increase in supply of bulk wine, that typically is going to still have more downward pressure on price. And as far as growers bulking wine, it's, I think, a very risky game right now. You know, bulk wine does have a life expectancy, to Audra's point earlier. And, know, if you bulk it now, you have to sell it eventually to make your money back. [00:16:02] And then on top of that, you have to carry those costs with today's interest rates.  [00:16:06] Craig Macmillan: Right, right. So, prices for bulk wine right now, I'm guessing have been on the decline for probably a couple of years. Is that accurate? [00:16:13] Audra Cooper: Yeah, that's an accurate statement. If I were to really think about how long they've been on the decline, I would say probably mid, mid calendar year 2023 is when we start to see the downturn of the market be very, you know, impactful on pricing and overall demand. And of course, increasing inventory is really when that trend started. [00:16:34] I want to kind of go back to what Eddie was talking about regarding you know growers making bulk wine and and how risky that is, you know, we have a saying internally and it's so Elementary, but it's so applicable to these times. Your first loss is typically your best loss or your least loss and so it's really important when you're looking at alternative to market Whether or not you're actually going to be able to optimize how much investment you have in that product, and more often than not, when you're making grapes into bulk wine as a grower, you're not going to have the wherewithal to compete with a competitive set, other wineries, or large growers whose business models incorporate making bulk wine as a producer. [00:17:15] So you really end up being on the losing end of that game. [00:17:19] Craig Macmillan: Eddie, do you see price pressure on growers? Are prices being negotiated down or contracts being changed or not renewed? And if so, does that vary by region, do you think? I know you specialize in the Central Coast, but just from what you know. [00:17:34] Eddie Urman: I think for the Central Coast, it's easy to say that there's still unfortunately more cancellations or evergreens being called and their contracts being executed. There is some activity of people being willing to look at stuff and even make offers, which is good news, but typically it's at a lower pricing. [00:17:51] Craig Macmillan: This is for both of you if I'm a grower and I'm facing this situation both what I can get for my price and then also what the chances are of me selling my stuff on the bulk market, is this a situation where we're maybe better off not harvesting all the crop or mothballing some vineyards for the short term? [00:18:08] Eddie Urman: Yeah, I mean, I think in general, the less we pick this upcoming season that doesn't have a home, you know, the better off if it's picked for, uh, a program where it's actually needed, that's great, but bulking one on spec or taking in more fruit because it's cheap or very, you know, very low cost is not going to be a good thing. good overall thing for the industry. [00:18:30] As far as mothballing, we've talked a lot internally. This is where the conversation came in last time about making tough decisions and being intentional about how you're going to farm or you plant going into the season as a grower is, you know, mothballing is very controversial. [00:18:45] I think for our team, as far as whether it truly works and can you truly come back after it's done, if you're mothballing a Vineyard that's at the end of his life expectancy. You're probably just delaying your pain one more year. Cause it probably will not come back. If you're mothballing a five year old vineyard, maybe it's something that's a different story, but a real tough decision. [00:19:06] Mothballing a young producing vineyard most people are not in that situation. [00:19:12] Audra Cooper: Yeah, I mean, I want to expand a little bit on the, the mothballing and not harvesting fruit. I think it's really important that, you know, while this is a rather negative time in the industry and it's really easy to be very pessimistic. I do want to be optimistic about the needed outcomes and the solutions and the pain that's still rather prevalent in our industry to get kind of to the other side of being healthy. [00:19:36] I do want to be optimistic about some of the newer plantings that we've seen basically since 2012. There is a lot of new to middle aged vineyards that I really hope continue to stay in the ground. They need to stay in the ground because they are the highest and best fit for some of the newer style products in wine. [00:19:54] And we need to be able to continue to keep our wine quality elevated. And so while certainly there's vineyards that need to be removed or, or mothballed and taken out of production, there's also the flip side of that where there's a huge need for some of the. better vineyards and the more sought after vineyards or the vineyards that are priced right for the program that they're going into. [00:20:16] So this is kind of a double edged sword in the sense that yeah, we need plenty of production to be pulled out of the supply chain, but at the same time there's a huge need for very specific supply. So I want to be very careful in classifying those items. [00:20:30] Craig Macmillan: Right. And that brings me to my next question Audra there must be regional differences. Yeah. Yeah. In these patterns, I would assume some areas maybe are a little bit more protected from this kind of contraction or, or expansion over supply and others probably really bearing the brunt. I would guess. Do you see patterns at the state level? [00:20:48] Audra Cooper: I see patterns at the state level, but I can even bring it down to the central coast, even so far down to like even Paso right now. And Eddie and I have been talking about this a lot. You know, we saw a huge uptick in available inventory for east side AVA Cabernet and red blenders and even some of the white. Over the last two years, particularly last year in 2024, [00:21:11] and now we're seeing that dynamic shift from the east side climbing and available inventory. And now the west side is where we're seeing most of our listings come from over the last couple of weeks. And so we're now seeing it kind of push into more of the premium luxury tiers as far as this oversupply and the contraction and the kind of the pain points. [00:21:29] And so we are moving through the channels. Which I know again is, is difficult to hear and it's a very negative position to be in the industry, but it's also a sign that the market and the supply chain is moving through what it needs to move towards in order to come out the other side of this thing on a healthier end. [00:21:48] We comment on this a lot where. You know, it's going to get worse, dramatically worse for a short period of time before it gets better. And we're starting to see kind of the beginning of that position. [00:21:58] Craig Macmillan: What about the San Joaquin Valley? San Joaquin Valley? [00:22:02] Audra Cooper: is actually typically leading the charge in regards to our market, particularly our supply aspect of things, both in grapes and bulk wine. And so when we see A retraction in our industry or oversupply. We typically see it in the interior of the central valley first And when we see kind of a new, Growth stage we see it over there first as well And so they're ahead of us by one to two years Currently and then it kind of follows into the central coast and then up into the north coast and what i've seen Historically when you look back at markets and you look at kind of the time horizons of these things how? Long they live and what pushes the momentum of these markets. You'll typically see it last longer in the Central Valley, tiny bit shorter in the Central Coast and a lot shorter in the North Coast. The North Coast usually doesn't see quite as long of a pain period as the other two regions do. And there's, there's a lot of reasons that we probably shouldn't get into today because it would be a whole nother topic of conversation. [00:23:00] But I do think that the Central Coast right now has got another challenging year ahead of it. But also I think that the on ramp to a more positive industry is a little shorter than what I think people are giving credit for too because a lot of the work is being done, we just got to get through these major pain points first. [00:23:19] Craig Macmillan: We know that consumers drive demand for wine and hence wine grapes but are there other economic forces or political forces or regulatory forces that put pressure on this grape market aside from just consumer demand? [00:23:32] Eddie Urman: again, but 1 of big 1s is, put, it could put pressure to the positive or negative on our industry. We don't really know yet. It's still to be determined. when I read this question, the other thing came to mind to me is, is from a grower's perspective ensuring that you're growing. The compatible correct grapes for your region or varieties or it's staying within where you need to be. If the market for, for example, Chardonnay went through, went to the moon, it doesn't mean everyone in Paso should plant Chardonnay, [00:24:00] even though that's the hot variety, right? [00:24:02] It wouldn't be the best variety for most areas of Those are some of the quicker things that come to my mind. I'll probably elaborate. [00:24:10] Audra Cooper: I think to expand upon that, certainly regulations regarding, you know, water usage and irrigation is is a huge factor. And, and Eddie, you could probably do an entire podcast on that particular topic. And I'm sure that you guys have actually, Craig in addition to that, you really look at the economic environment in which people are growing grapes and producing wine. [00:24:32] And the economy of it is getting, you know, more and more difficult. The margins are getting much smaller. You can argue that more often than not people are taking losses year over year. And that puts a ton of pressure on their cash flow. In addition to that, when you look at the lending environment as well, that's become a lot more say, non conducive to being able to continue with business. In a lot of cases, [00:24:57] we have a handful of clients, if not more, who are questioning, do I prune because I don't necessarily have the same operational loan that I've had over the last couple of years and I've been taking low grape prices in order to survive to the following year, but you can only do that so long before it catches up to you. [00:25:14] And then we have another group or another segment of clientele who will prune, but may end up having to throw in the towel sometime, you know, mid summer or sooner because they don't have enough capital to continue with the grapes or you know, not sold. And then you look at the producer side on the winery side, and, and they too are getting crunched. [00:25:32] You know, we often talk about how low grape prices are, but we forget that, you know, wineries are getting crunched on their bottle price as well in order to nationally distribute. You know, what you see on the shelf as a price point does not necessarily mean that that's a price point to that producer. So the economies of this industry are getting more and more difficult every single year. [00:25:52] Craig Macmillan: Eddie, especially, are you seeing trends towards things like mechanization to try to keep costs down? [00:25:58] Eddie Urman: Yeah, absolutely. I mean mechanization and then automation and the vineyard or two, the , you know, hottest topics so here. And people were definitely making the efforts to try to implement those as they come available. The difficult thing can be oftentimes it's investment in equipment. That's very expensive and you have to truly consider is it going to, is it economically feasible to invest in that equipment and what's the payout time going to be based upon the amount of acres you're farming or how many passes you can do with that piece of equipment. So we're, we're seeing it happen, which is great. [00:26:31] It's innovation and it's heading us in the right direction, but at this point, a lot of it is still quite expensive and not everyone could participate for cost reasons. Yeah. [00:26:41] Craig Macmillan: Going forward, we've talked about this a little bit in terms of how different regions are kind of more paying for longer and some a little bit less and et cetera. And this then translates into the wines that are out there. Audra, you'd mentioned you know, the potential of negotiants to come in and help to alleviate the market. [00:26:59] That's definitely what happened in the nineties from my memory. We saw a lot of negotiate brands pop up because there was a plentiful supply for some of those years. Are there things that companies or government or grower associations, are there things that organizations could do to advise growers or help move people in the right direction in terms of kind of what they need to do? Is the viticulture consulting community? Taking these things into account Eddie, let's start with you, [00:27:29] Eddie Urman: that's a big question. there are plenty of people giving good advice in the industry and growers do have resources to reach out to, but it's very difficult to hear information that doesn't. Align with what you would like to do, right? So taking out our emotions from this from the equation and say, okay, does it really make sense to do this or to do that? Where where's that going to leave us and is that going to be in a position? To move forward in a better, know in a better new industry or new, you know New time in this industry when things rebound there's information out there, but it is difficult extremely difficult right now for growers and wineries to make decisions [00:28:09] Craig Macmillan: Yeah. That's the challenge when you have something like this, where it's individual decisions that lead to mass outcomes. It's hard for me as an individual to say, okay, well, I'm going to do my part. I'm going to keep these 10 acres out of production. Especially when I can see that I could sell to somebody. It's a tough go. Go ahead, Audra. [00:28:24] Audra Cooper: So I'm gonna go off on a tangent here a little bit. [00:28:26] Craig Macmillan: do. [00:28:28] Audra Cooper: I don't know, you might not welcome this one. So, you know, some people know this about me. I'm a pretty big Tony Robbins fan. And, You know, for some of you who don't know who that is, he's a self help guru that does a lot of different events and has written a lot of books and he has a philosophy and a saying that he utilizes through most of events, which is where focus goes, energy flows. [00:28:51] And unfortunately, we have not done the best of jobs being positive about ourselves in the industry, out there in the media, that ultimately is consumed by the masses. And so, I've been on this huge bandwagon about, when we're talking to the media, obviously we need to be rooted in reality, but we need to be as optimistic as we can about who we are and what our why is. [00:29:16] And I think oftentimes when we have these downturns, and this one's a pretty deep one, admittedly. That's the rooted in reality, right? But in these downturns, we tend to turn very, very pessimistic and we fail to remember that to some degree or another. We've been here before, and there have been a lot of innovations and activities and work and leadership that have pulled us out of it, and so we need to remember our history a little bit, I think would be my recommendation there, and I think a lot of the associations do a great job In reminding everyone what the historical background is and in some of our why Paso Robles Wine Country Alliance is a great example of what an association can do for a region on a national and international level. [00:30:03] I will continue to sing their praises because I think they've done a beautiful job in what they've done over the last 15 years. When you look at You know, what's happening from a government and regulation standpoint, you know, we have to band together as a community and be loud voices. We can't just rely on our neighbor or our representative to be our representative voice. [00:30:25] We need to make sure that we continue to be out there and loud. The other thing too is. We have a community, but we have a tendency to not keep collaboration consistent, and I would love to see our industry collaborate a little bit more, particularly on social media. I know that there's a lot of people probably listening to this right now thinking, why is social media even a remote solution? [00:30:48] But the amount of consumption from the younger generation that are now of drinking age that have not adopted wine as a beverage of choice, consume a huge amount of social media, more than they do TV, more than they do reading, more than any other culture. aspect of information gathering or any other platform that's available to them. [00:31:10] And we have an opportunity to band together and collaborate and change the algorithm regarding wine on social media. And I love to see us do that. We haven't done it. And there's various methods of doing that. And again, could probably be another podcast. I'm by no means the foremost expert on that, but our collaborative efforts. [00:31:27] We'll just drop that because I don't even remember exactly [00:31:30] Craig Macmillan: I think that's sound advice And it's always been a challenge. We do have some statewide Organizations that have that mission. They have a lot on their plate But I agree with you. I think that that is definitely the route or it seems to be the route There's more more research coming out that's showing that Not just the time but also like where people get their news You know, it shows you how important that is to them, how important , that venue is to them. [00:31:55] Eddie Urman: 1 of the things for me to extrapolate on that a little bit. What Audra was talking about is unified at the industry hot topics. Um. Rock mcmillan talked for a minute. The ceo of silicon bank about the wine industry Not itself and taking market share from itself, but taking market share from wine from beer from spirits They've clearly done that to us. [00:32:18] I mean It's a competition. It is what it is, and we've not done a great job marketing To younger, younger generations, everybody knows that everybody repeats it, but what are we going to do about it? And how can we as an industry figure out how to do a better job getting people exposed to wine, getting people to enjoy wine? [00:32:37] Audra Cooper: Yeah, I like that, Eddie. It's time to get aggressive and it's time to re enter wine in the conversation of culture and being part of the daily lifestyle. We've let it kind of fall by the wayside and it's time to get aggressive about what wine can be and was and should be here in the near future. [00:32:57] Craig Macmillan: right. You'd mentioned, you know, what's happened in the past. Audra, are there lessons that we learned that we are forgetting from 20 years ago or lessons that we should have learned 20 years ago that might help us now? [00:33:11] Audra Cooper: it's, that's an interesting question, and I think it is a great question of merit, because history does tend to repeat itself I think we need to get better about predictive trends, and I don't know what the answer is to that, I just know that we need to do that and again, we, we kind of talked about it early in the podcast here that, you know, it's really hard to plant a trend, because you're usually behind the eight ball on it. [00:33:38] And I think that we need to get better about how we plan for the future. I think we forget that, you know, Robert Mondavi and the Gallo's and, and countless others who came before us really went out. To the masses and marketed wine, not just their brands or their programs. They were out there to make sure that they were representing the wine industry and the product that we produce first and foremost. [00:34:06] And so I think there's that element. It's not necessarily missing, but it's not loud enough and it's not aggressive enough. And so we definitely need some leaders to come forward in that regard and really push the initiatives. That we fought so hard to stay in business for. When you look back historically to, I think we have a tendency to kind of do the blame game a little bit. [00:34:28] Like, you've planted too much over there on the coast and you've removed too much of the northern interior and you're charging too much up there in the north coast. And the reality is there's a place. For everyone to play and instead of being the competitive set that we are, again, to Eddie's point that Rob McMillan made as state of the industry, we should be looking at how do we take market share from our competitors, which are beer and spirits, RTDs, and so forth, not from each other. [00:34:57] Craig Macmillan: Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. It sounds like it's a time when we need to see some new leadership step up or some folks to take leadership roles which is always kind of scary. [00:35:08] Audra Cooper: It is. It's, it's, you know, here's the, the beautiful thing about emotion though. It's usually a call to action. So if we get scared enough. Someone will do something and I think we're just about there, and, and there's probably people working in the shadows that we're not aware of that will probably come forward here soon, you know, there's great leadership at CAWG level with their association as well as the Wine Institute, they're working hard every single day to be lobbyists , for our industry and to be making sure that they're representing our issues and finding solutions, solutions. [00:35:40] You know, one of the big things that I've learned over the last couple of years, particularly this last year, is, is that we are all responsible for our future and making sure our future is compelling. And so we need to be supporting those associations and paying attention to the relevancy of the information that's out there. [00:35:55] Craig Macmillan: Yeah, that's excellent. This is a, again, kind of a, kind of a tangent and it may not lead anywhere, but I, I just had this thought. You were talking about sustainability certifications and how important they are for growers now. Do you think that communicating the sustainability story of wineries and probably done at an individual level and then spreading out from there do you think consumers would respond to that? [00:36:17] Eddie Urman: Yeah it's hard to say because marketing is not my forte, but I, it sure seems like with the trends as far as health conscious and all this, I think it would resonate with them. It really should. And it's something we should probably capitalize on more as an industry in general. Yeah. [00:36:33] Craig Macmillan: That's interesting. Well do you have, does anybody have like a final message or one thing you would tell growers on this topic? Audra, [00:36:40] Audra Cooper: Well, we covered a lot of topics today, and I think I'll leave everyone with the same thing I said earlier, Where focus goes, energy flows, and if we're focused on the negative, and we're focused on how tough the industry is right now, that's where we're going to be. If we're focused on solutions, we'll find one that works, and it's going to be different for everyone. [00:37:04] Everyone's solution may look a little bit different. This is both an individual and industry wide issue that we're facing currently. with the downturn in the industry and the extreme oversupply. But I have faith that the work that's already being done will pull us out of this. We just need to get innovative in how we market to new consumers. [00:37:26] Craig Macmillan: That's great. Where can people find out more about you folks? [00:37:29] Eddie Urman: on our website. , you can get our information on there and reach out and contact us. Anything else Audra. Right. [00:37:44] Audra Cooper: Year you can go to our social media Turrentine Brokerate or you can find me at GrapeBroker on Instagram. You can also call us or email us or text us if you'd like, or smoke signal us too, although please don't carry fires. [00:37:50] Craig Macmillan: Anyway, right. Well, thank you so much. I guess today we're Audrey Cooper she is a director of great brokerage at Turrentine. Brokerage and Eddie Urman, who is the central coast, great broker Turrentine. Thank you both for being here and having such an interesting conversation. It's an important topic with a lot of question marks, lots and lots of questions, but I think we had some good things come out of it and I really appreciate it. [00:38:11] Audra Cooper: All right. Thank you.  [00:38:17] Beth Vukmanic: Thank you for listening. Today's podcast was brought to you by wonderful laboratories. Wonderful laboratories. Operates two state of the art high throughput laboratories to support pathogen detection and nutrient analysis. The team provides full service support to customers with field sampling, custom panels, and special projects. Their customers include pest control advisors, growers, consultants, seed companies, backyard gardeners, researchers, and more. [00:38:45] Make sure you check out the show notes for links to Turntine brokerage. Their previous interview on the Sustainable Winegrowing podcast, that's number 259, wine Grape Market Trends for 2024, plus other sustainable wine growing podcast episodes, including 265. How to stand out on social media in 2025 and 268 how to tackle leadership transitions successfully.   [00:39:10] If you'd like this show, do us a big favor by sharing it with a friend, subscribing and leaving us a review. [00:39:16] You can find all of the podcasts@vineyardteam.org/podcast and you can reach us at podcast@vineyardteam.org. Until next time, this is Sustainable Winegrowing with the Vineyard team.   Nearly perfect transcription by Descript

Send us a textThe boys talk about the Ronald Reagan shooter, John Hinckley.Romas drinks Cabernet during the pod because he's fancy.Ducharme is well resting on His Pillow ™ not My Pillow ™ .https:/patreon.com/2als1podhttps://www.instagram.com/thetalkingdickscomedypodcast/https://twitter.com/DicksTwohttps://www.facebook.com/thetwodickshttps://www.facebook.com/The-Talking-Dicks-Comedy-Podcast-107101331446404Support the show

In this two-part episode, Morgan and Chris talk about the upcoming special release of Bedrock's first vintage of Detert Vineyard Cabernet Franc on Tuesday, 4/8. They discuss the legendary, historically important site, the gravitas of working with the fruit, and how the wine came together. In part two, Morgan and Chris interview vineyard owner Tom Garrett, discussing his family's long history in Napa, his journey into wine—including founding his own wineries—the origins of the vineyard, and what makes Detert Vineyard the most historic and greatest site for Cabernet Franc in California and one of the finest in the world.

Brittany takes a break from The Tax Vortex and we recap this most awful of episodes. Buckle Up! We have opinions. On the show, the remains of a missing wine critic are found in a fitting resting place and the suspects are close to home and close-knit. Booth and Brennan face an interesting dilemma that tests their friendship and is particularly trying for Booth. This penultimate offering for the season is nothing short of confounding. Season Four has been a real treat lately, eh? Action items: DID YOU LIKE THIS EPISODE? Defend your position! Were we too tough on this episode? Explain yourself! Do you, like Kelly, think HODGINS! is a creep? Please support her campaign to eradicate the delusion that he's a “good guy”! Rate, Review & Subscribe!! Also: PLEASE TELL THREE PEOPLE ABOUT THIS PODCAST. Send them a link to our Spotify! Tag them in an Instagram post! Forward them a TikTok we posted! We are grassroots and have truly worked very hard to earn each and every one of our listeners and we appreciate you! Help us grow and make it possible to offer you more and more content Rate! Review! Subscribe! Apparently this matters! Email us at squintcastpodcast@gmail.com Follow us on Instagram and TikTok @squintcastpodcast Like us on Facebook @ Squintcast, A Bones Podcast Follow Kelly on Instagram and TikTok @fab_empire_ Follow Brittany on Instagram @brittany81523 Theme music: Twisterium @ PixaBay Bones Theme song: The Crystal Method Artwork: Irena Dolenc-Stajan Editing/Production: Kelly Booth Thanks for listening!

Send us a textWhen neighbors felt the walls of their Chicago apartment growing hot on a summer night in 2018, they knew something was terribly wrong. Behind those walls, 38-year-old bartender and mother of three T'Anda Hall lay beaten and dying as flames began consuming her bedroom — the tragic culmination of what had started as a friendly card game hours earlier.T'Anda had recently met Wes Arnold, a man whose violent history remained hidden from her until it was too late. Friends who'd been playing cards with them that evening described Arnold growing increasingly agitated, particularly when money from T'Anda's "Rainy Day Fund" went missing. Sensing danger, they left. Minutes later, neighbors heard running footsteps down the stairwell.The investigation revealed a pattern all too familiar in cases of domestic violence. Arnold, on parole for battery at the time, had an extensive history of abusing women — so severe that even his own family refused to shelter him. Security footage, witness testimony, and forensic evidence painted a clear picture of what happened after T'Anda's friends departed: a brutal beating followed by arson meant to cover his tracks. Most disturbing was the medical examiner's finding that T'Anda had smoke in her lungs, meaning she was still alive when Arnold set the fire.While evading capture, Arnold's violence continued. He assaulted another woman who had briefly given him shelter, leaving her with 17 stitches. This pattern of escalating violence ultimately led to his conviction and life sentence plus 50 years for arson.T'Anda's story serves as a haunting reminder of how quickly violence can escalate and the importance of recognizing warning signs in potentially dangerous relationships. Through our exploration of this case, we honor her memory while examining the factors that led to this preventable tragedy.Have you witnessed warning signs in a friend's relationship? Sharing your story might help others recognize dangerous situations before they escalate. This week, we enjoyed a delicious selection from Robert Clay Vineyards. The 2017 Texas Hill Country Ruby Cabernet is a mellow, long-aged wine with unique aromas and flavors of maple, brown sugar and vanilla bean, but bone dry and medium bodied with rounded tannins. Absolutely phenomenal.Magic Mind

Episode 222 Sponsored by: River Road Family Vineyards and Winery Today we were joined by one of our newer members, Michael LeComte, founder of Oak Tree Winery! Michael details his transition from brewing beer at home to producing a range of wines including Cabernet, Merlot, and Sauvignon Blanc. The Windsor-based winery shares a tasting room with JK Cellars, promoting a community feel through activities such as karaoke, painting, and live music.  Links:  https://oaktreewinery.com/ https://tastingnoteswindsor.com/   Sponsor: River Road Family Vineyards and Winery Credits: The Wine Road podcast is mixed and mastered at
 Threshold Studios Sebastopol, CA. http://thresholdstudios.info/

Episode 511 - Margie Zable Fisher - The Cabernet Club, A Novel, Two Authors and A Mother Daughter ProjectSupport the show___https://livingthenextchapter.com/podcast produced by: https://truemediasolutions.ca/Coffee Refills are always appreciated, refill Dave's cup here, and thanks!https://buymeacoffee.com/truemediaca

SAMEDI 08 MARS 2025Cécile Mallié-Verdier - Château Brethous (Bordeaux)Au cœur des Cadillac Côtes de Bordeaux, le Château Brethous allie tradition et engagement bio pour créer des vins fruités, élégants et équilibrés. Sur un terroir d'exception, Merlot, Cabernet et Malbec s'expriment à travers des cuvées. Une invitation à savourer le meilleur du vin, dans le respect de la nature !Nathalie Margan - Château la Canorgue (Valée du Rhône)Découvrez le Château la Canorgue, un domaine familial de plus de 200 ans situé au cœur du Parc Naturel Régional du Luberon. Pionnier de l'agriculture biologique depuis les années 1970, il cultive 40 hectares de cépages Rhodaniens et Méditerranéens pour offrir des vins d'exception. Premier domaine certifié bio du Luberon, il incarne l'authenticité, le respect de la nature et la passion d'une tradition vinicole d'excellence.Hébergé par Ausha. Visitez ausha.co/politique-de-confidentialite pour plus d'informations.

Steve Jaxon and Dan Berger. Steve Jaxon talks about wine news with Dan Berger on California Wine Country today, since our expected guest was a last-minute scratch. Dan has brought a Tendu from Matthaisson in Napa Valley, made from Cortese grapes. It is a common wine in Piedmont, the province of north-western Italy, whose capital is Torino. American wine consumption is down in every category , except Sauvignon Blanc was the only one up in sales.  One reason is the influx of good Sauvignon Blanc wines from New Zealand. This caused the category to expand. There is the Sancerre, Pouilly-Fumé French styles, the California style and now the New Zealand style. From region to region the styles are all different. In the US, Sauvignon Blanc was up almost 4%, while everything else was down between 4 and 8 % in sales. Tasting rooms and wineries are closing. Discount pricing is rampant. Young people are drinking all kinds of other things, even hard seltzer or non-alcoholic products. Market Cycles in the Wine Industry Wine has been with us for thousands of years, so the industry has to wait for the cycle to turn, maybe a year or two. Sometimes wine news is old news. There was a downturn in 2009 and within 18 months the business was back. Dan says that the 2024 vintage is excellent. The 2024 white wines and Rosés are starting to show up in the stores now. Pedroncelli winery in Dry Creek Valley is a thriving winery. Montse Reese their winemaker has been on the show. Also Julie Pedroncelli was on this episode last January. They have owned their land for almost 100 years. Dan opens a Kerner which is Riesling crossed with Trollinger, a red grape. It is a white wine from the Alto-Adige region of north-eastern Italy. Wineries used to operate tasting rooms at a profit, but that has changed. A lot of wineries have closed that were all producing the same wines, Chardonnay and Cabernet. Julie Pedroncelli explained how a winery has to set itself apart somehow, which they have done. Michigan is producing great wine. Look for Chateau Grand Traverse, the old reliable.

This week's episode doesn't waste any time and gets straight to what I've been playing with Lost Records: Bloom & Rage, Cabernet, Ultros, Momodora: Moonlit Farewell, and Crowns and Pawns: Kingdom of Deceit. Anyway and as always, thank you for watching or listening, I hope you enjoy this here episode, and I hope you have a wonderful wonderful rest of your day. (And if you haven't already, or are a listener and not a watcher, please like, subscribe, hit the bell, and all that jazz; it may not seem like much, but it goes a long way in helping support the show and site in general. I would appreciate it greatly.)

Send us a textWelcome to our latest episode, where we embark on an entertaining deep dive into Trader Joe's Platinum Reserve Yountville Cabernet Sauvignon 2023. As curiosity swirls around budget wines, we aim to answer the pressing question: is spending less than $20 worth the risk? Our conversation opens with a thorough exploration of the wine's background, including Yountville's rich vineyard history dating back to 1836 and why its grapes are prized by many.As we sip through each tasting note, you'll find compelling flavors that illustrate the depth and complexity often overlooked in lower-priced selections. We discuss the unexpected layers of taste that challenge preconceived notions about affordable wines, making Trader Joe's Cabernet a worthy addition to any menu for all occasions.Whether pairing it with holiday meals or casual dinners, our reviews convey how this wine manages to achieve a high-quality profile while still being approachable for casual drinkers. In an economy where many are seeking bargains, discover how this bottle stands out as an anomaly in an ever-evolving market landscape, encouraging conversations about quality, craftsmanship, and ultimately enriching your wine choices.Join us for this delightful tasting, and don't forget to subscribe, share, and leave a review of our podcast. We are excited to hear your thoughts on this wine and your own affordable selections!Check us out at www.cheapwinefinder.comor email us at podcast@cheapwinefinder.com

Château Talbot is a 4th Grand Cru Classé of Saint-Julien in the Médoc of Left Bank of Bordeaux. It's an historic and large property – its vineyards extend over 110 hectares/272 acres in a single block. The story of Talbot is a long and interesting one, but the chapter being written by the current family and management of the Château may be the best yet. With extreme dedication to quality, an eye towards the environment and careful winemaking, Talbot has a focus on making unbelievable wine that overdelivers for the price, vintage after vintage.   In this show, General Manager of Château Talbot, Jean-Michel Laporte, joins to discuss Saint-Julien and Talbot. Photo: Jean-Michel Laporte. From  Château Talbot.    We discuss: Saint-Julien and it's terroir. We talk about how it stacks up to the other communes on the Left Bank and even discuss comparisons with the Right Bank, where Jean-Michel got his start The history and terroir of Talbot. The château is hundreds of years old, but got it's name from an English general who won Bordeaux back from the French in the 1400s! Photo: The Chai of Château Talbot. From the Château site.    Winemaking, aging, their amazing chai (barrel room, pic above), spectacular vintages and how long to hold both the Grand Vin -- Chateau Talbot and the second wine, Connetable de Talbot. We also discuss Caillou Blanc, their fascinating white wine! Château Talbot makes excellent wines. They are around US $70 and although that will set you back, it is so high quality and over delivers for the price. If you have some extra money at some point, and want to invest in a wine to age,  this is one to seek. I love the floral and dark fruit aromatics, the complexity, the medieval church notes, the earth, and the perfect tannin and acidity.  Saint-Julien is indeed, incredibly balanced, and Château Talbot is a great example of the AOC. ________________________________________________________________________ Full show notes and all back episodes are on Patreon. Become a member today! www.patreon.com/winefornormalpeople _______________________________________________________________   Check out my exclusive sponsor, Wine Access.  They have an amazing selection -- once you get hooked on their wines, they will be your go-to! Make sure you join the Wine Access-Wine For Normal People wine club for wines I select delivered to you four times a year!    To register for an AWESOME, LIVE WFNP class with Elizabeth or get a class gift certificate for the wine lover in your life go to: www.winefornormalpeople.com/classes    

It must be the glass@cloudybay @mersoleilwines @darioushwinery #wine #glassware #podcast #radioshow #host Co hosts : Good ol Boy Harmeet, Made Man Maury, Made Man BobSIPS – On this episode we discuss wine, but it's really about the glass. Each wine is tasted using varietal-specific Riedel glasses, highlighting the significant impact glassware has on flavor and aroma.Join us as we uncover the nuances of these wines, share our tasting notes, and provide our signature SIPs ratings. From the crisp notes of the Sauvignon Blanc to the rich complexity of the Cabernet, this episode is packed with insights and laughter. Whether you're a wine novice or a seasoned connoisseur, you won't want to miss this enlightening discussion! We will be discussing this whiskey and rating them from 1-5 with 5 being the best:Cloudy Bay 2023 New Zealand Sauvignon Blanc                                         3 SIPSMer Soleil 2020 Reserve Chardonnay                                                       3 SIPSCloudy Bay 2021 New Zealand Pinot Noir                                 4 SIPSDarioush Cabernet Sauvignon 2021 25th Anniversary Release    5 SIPSinfo@sipssudsandsmokes.com X- @sipssudssmokes IG/FB - @sipssudsandsmokes Sips, Suds, & Smokes® is produced by One Tan Hand Productions using the power of beer, whiskey, and golf. Available on Apple Podcasts, YouTube Music, Spotify, Pandora, iHeart, and nearly anywhere you can find a podcast.Enjoying that cool Outro Music, it's from Woods & Whitehead – Back Roads Download your copy here:https://amzn.to/2XblorcThe easiest way to find this award winning podcast on your phone is ask Alexa, Siri or Google, “Play Podcast , Sips, Suds, & Smokes” Credits:TITLE: Maxwell Swing / FlapperjackPERFORMED BY: Texas GypsiesCOMPOSED BY: Steven R Curry (BMI)PUBLISHED BY: Alliance AudioSparx (BMI)COURTESY OF: AudioSparxTITLE: Back RoadsPERFORMED BY: Woods & WhiteheadCOMPOSED BY: Terry WhiteheadPUBLISHED BY: Terry WhiteheadCOURTESY OF: Terry WhiteheadPost production services : Pro Podcast SolutionsAdvertising sales: Contact us directlyContent hosting services: Audioport, Earshot, Radio4All, & PodBeanProducer: Made Man BobWine Tasting, Riedel Glasses, Cloudy Bay, Sauvignon Blanc, Chardonnay, Pinot Noir, Cabernet Sauvignon, Wine Varietals, Tasting Notes, Glassware Impact, Wine Appreciation, Distilled Spirits, Coffee And Tea, Wine Ratings, Sustainable Wine Practices, Marlborough Wines, Wine Glass Shapes, Wine Tasting Kits, Wine Reviews, Wine And Food PairingRiedelhttps://www.riedel.com Cloudy Bayhttps://www.cloudybay.co.nz Dariush Estate Wineryhttps://www.dariush.com Marlboroughhttps://www.marlboroughwine.com Santa Lucia Highlandshttps://www.santaluciahighlands.com Promo swap for 750K at 2:1

Look, you all knew this was coming eventually. Matt put it off as long as he possibly could, but the time has finally arrived. Despite it having practically every element that PushingUpRoses hates in adventure games, we play one of her favorites of all time: Sanitarium!Roses is still playing Cabernet, trying to get the good ending. Matt is Playing Heaven's Vault and it's incredible.And the less said about the intro, the better.Email us! mattandroses@gmail.comGames Mentioned: Cabernet The Crimson Diamond Heaven's Vault Overboard! Sanitarium Space Quest VI: Roger Wilco in the Spinal Frontier Ninja GaidenEconomic Blackout Day is Friday, February 28th. Don't buy anything!Amazon Boycott March 7-14. Nestle Boycott March 21-28.

How do you tame a grape like Merlot which actually has higher sugar and alcohol levels than Cabernet Sauvignon? What's the little-known history behind the cult wines of Le Pin in Bordeaux that sell for as much as $10,000 a bottle when first released and then go up from there at auction? Why is it an advantage to have many stakeholders in family-owned estates? In this episode of the Unreserved Wine Talk podcast, I'm chatting with Fiona Morrison, author of the terrific book 10 Great Wine Families: A Tour Through Europe. You can find the wines we discussed at https://www.nataliemaclean.com/winepicks   Giveaway Two of you are going to win a copy of her terrific book, 10 Great Wine Families: A Tour Through Europe. To qualify, all you have to do is email me at natalie@nataliemaclean.com and let me know that you've posted a review of the podcast. I'll choose two people randomly from those who contact me. Good luck!   Highlights How did studying literature at the University of Exeter spark Fiona's interest in the wine industry? How did Fiona meet her husband, Jacques Thienpont of Le Pin? What's the history behind the renowned Le Pin wines? How would Fiona characterize the 2023 and 2024 vintages of Le Pin? What is it like managing the limited production and high prices of Le Pin? How Le Pin tames Merlot grapes into its highly sought-after wines? What were the challenges Fiona faced in writing about the Thienpont family of which she is a part? How does Fiona's book, 10 Great Wine Families, differ from other books on similar topics? Which aspects of Maurice Healy's book, Stay With Me Flagons, inspired Fiona's writing? What are some of the elements that characterize successful multi-generational wine businesses? How did Fiona choose which ten families to profile in her book?   Key Takeaways How do you tame a grape like Merlot which actually has higher sugar and alcohol levels than Cabernet Sauvignon? Merlot is a grape that can be very fleshy, Fiona observes. It doesn't like hot weather. It likes to keep its feet wet. If you shade the fruit a bit and let the grapes ripen, this dappled light effect, then you get a lovely balance, and elegant wine. But if you crop strongly and take off the leaves, the wine can get quite vulgar quickly, very sugary, much more jammy. There's much more sugar and alcohol in Merlot than there is in Cabernet, which may surprise some people. So when we tame Merlot, what we do in the cellar is very little pumping over. We use infusions rather than pumping over and soaking the grapes to get the maceration, like when you've got your tea bag in your tea. You have to wet the cap so that it doesn't get dry and tannic. But you're just doing that. You're not punching down or anything like that. What's the little-known history behind the cult wines of Le Pin in Bordeaux that sell for as much as $10,000 a bottle when first released, then go up from there at auction? As Fiona explains, Le Pin means pine tree. The estate was called Chateau du Pin before Jacques bought it in 1979. It's a fairy tale story. He had heard from his uncle, who had their sister estate, Vieux Chateau Certan, that a magical one hectare of land was coming up for sale. And the family thought it was too expensive to buy, so Jacques, who wasn't married at the time, said, well, one hectare, it's a vegetable garden, I think I can manage that myself. He started off very modestly with a barrel borrowed here, a tank borrowed there, and very artisanal winemaking. Then all hell broke loose in a good way with the release of the 1982 vintage which was tasted by top US expert Robert Parker and it became one of Parker's first 100 point wines. And the rest is history. Why is it an advantage to have many stakeholders in family-owned estates? Fiona notes that much of the book is about how you resolve family conflicts in a business and how you prepare the next generation to take over. She says that having lots of shareholders is actually easier than having just one or two heirs, who face a lot of pressure to take over in the business when in fact they may not want to. Whereas, if you've got 120 shareholders, chances are there's at least a few that are actually interested in wine, and will go into it. Lamberto Frescobaldi, who is 30th generation of his family, has instituted a very strict qualifying process for anyone who wants to come into the business. They have to be wine lovers, university-educated and have some business and wine experience. So you can't just be to the manor born. You really do need to have paid your dues before you get into this business. It's not a privileged business. It's probably one of the most complicated businesses, and it's very easy to lose money and it's quite difficult to make money.   About Fiona Morrison MW Fiona Morrison is an international Master of Wine, author, writer and wine merchant who lives in Belgium and Bordeaux and holds both British and Belgian nationalities. She became a Master of Wine in 1994 after studying in America and France. Fiona is married to Jacques Thienpont of Le Pin and currently runs the Thienpont family wine merchant business in Belgium and France. The family owns three estates on Bordeaux's right bank: Le Pin (Pomerol), L'IF (St Emilion) and L'Hêtre (Castillon). Winner of several awards for her writing, including the James Beard Award, her latest book, "10 Great Wine Families", has been published internationally.         To learn more, visit https://www.nataliemaclean.com/326.

CW: Mentions of alcoholism in the Cabernet discussion (specifically from around 34:45 to 38:20)This week we're discussing Cabernet, a game with a lot to say about the social construction of vampires, the cyclical nature of authoritarianism, and blood play.Editor's note: I cut out us deciding not to discuss a game because we haven't played enough but left a few vague mentions of it in. It's Cage of Roses, by one of our favorite VN developers, ebi-hime, so it's probably good. I could go back and clean up the edit but who has the time?Timestamps(02:00) Cabernet(13:30) More explicit story spoilers for Cabernet(40:30) Vampyr(47:00) Bloodlines(54:20) What else have Willa and Robin been up to this week? (feat. Avowed, a smorgasbord of vampire recommendations)Mentioned this week:Secrets of the Voice Acting Process in CabernetVAMPYR: A COVID-19 Pandemic PerspectiveTheWorstGarbage.onlineJoin The Worst Garbage Discord!Follow us and send us questions!Music Street Food by FASSoundsThings are bad right now, but you can help make them better. Please take some time to consider how you can help trans people, immigrants, and others targeted by our fascist government:Call your elected officials to oppose anti-trans, anti-immigrant policies. It's so easy, we promise!Three big lists of trans advocacy orgs you should donate to and volunteer withHow to protect yourself and your neighbors from ICEThe Trans Literature Preservation ProjectLots of resources from Critical DistanceFind local mutual aid groupsGet free masks and Covid-19 testsHuge spreadsheets of mutual aid, justice orgs, and moreHow to Change Your Legal Name and Gender 101LGBTQ+ Healthcare DirectoryLet us know what we should add to this list! Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Ridge Vineyards In this episode, Rob and Scott learn that one of their favorite wineries, Ridge, makes a Californian $40 non-vintage Cabernet.  They also learn that this Cabernet is, like all Ridge wines, exceptional.  So come join us, on The Wine Vault.

In Episode 24 of Counsel Brew, we're uncorking an extraordinary story—one that blends legal brilliance, mentorship, and a touch of vineyard magic. Meet Rebecca Greenan, an attorney turned vintner, whose journey has taken her from shaping legal minds to cultivating grapevines at Las Huertas de Tejas, a vineyard that honors her Spanish and Irish roots.Rebecca has spent years mentoring law students and young attorneys, bringing warmth, wisdom, and a legendary smile to every room she enters. As an Director at SMU and assistant dean at UNT, she made law school feel less like an episode of Suits and more like a place where students could thrive. But now? She's swapped legal briefs for wine barrels and built a modern hacienda-style retreat where hospitality flows as freely as the wine.In this episode, we chat about:

Roses and Matt roll up their characters and embark on an adventure, avoiding Killer Tomatoes and sadistic oral surgeons, leveling up their scratching skills with Itch Simulator VR 4000, and making their way to becoming full-fledged blood-drinking vampires!This week, we discuss the new vampire game Cabernet, an adventure/RPG hybrid in which you live two months as a vampire in a small eastern European town in the 1800's. We review the game and talk about the differences in our playthroughs. Then, we discuss the intersection between RPGs and Adventure Games, and what makes a game lean more heavily to either side.Also, we rank some adventure games we've never heard of and wonder what the word “Cabernet” means.Email us! mattandroses@gmail.comGames Mentioned: Cabernet Citizen Sleeper 2: Starward Vector Final Fantasies 1-8 Flat Stanley RPG RPG Maker VX 8 Stardew Valley Heaven's Vault I Was A Teenage Exocolonist Disco Elysium The Thaumaturge Planescape: Torment Grim Fandango Itch Simulator VR 4000 Skyrim Morrowind Fallout: New Vegas Through Abandoned: The Underground City Super Jazz Man Apprentice Enola

Are you a busy female entrepreneur finding yourself struggling with brain fog, fatigue, or wondering how to prepare for hormonal changes while running your business? In this powerful episode, Shauna Lynn connects with Dr. Denise Handscomb, a naturopathic doctor who not only shares vital health insights but also her own entrepreneurial journey of launching a successful practice within three months of getting licensed.Dr. Handscomb, co-founder of Abaton Integrative Medicine, breaks down how female entrepreneurs can optimize their health through data-driven natural approaches. She challenges common misconceptions about exercise, revealing why traditional "hustle culture" routines might be depleting your energy rather than enhancing it. You'll learn how to maintain mental clarity through strategic protein intake and blood sugar management, essential skills for maintaining peak performance in your business. The conversation delves into practical strategies for incorporating movement into your busy workday and understanding the critical connection between sleep quality and business performance.Whether you're in your 30s planning ahead, navigating your 40s, or already experiencing hormonal changes, this episode provides actionable strategies to help you maintain your entrepreneurial edge while prioritizing your health. As Shauna Lynn emphasizes, "You can be the most successful entrepreneur, but if you don't take a moment to stop and focus on your health first, your body will eventually do it for you."Timestamps:{00:02} - Introduction - Introduction{02:44} - Denise's Journey - Dr. Handscomb shares her background{08:22} - Perimenopause Signs - Recognizing perimenopause symptoms and hormonal changes.{14:14} - Blood Sugar & Diet- Blood sugar regulation and dietary habits & hormonal health.{31:59} - Key Takeaway - The importance of preventative health and naturopathic care.Resources:Set up a free Introductory Business Planning Session with Shauna Lynn: AboutShaunaLynn.com/planLearn more about the show: AboutShaunaLynn.com/podcastAbaton Integrative MedicineLearn more about Denise: https://abatonim.com/Follow Denise on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/abaton_integrative_medicine/?hl=enFollow Denise on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/abatonintegrativemedicineAbout Dr. Denise Handscomb:Dr.Denise is a Naturopathic Doctor, wife, Mama, and Co-Founder of Abaton Integrative Medicine. Dr. Denise became a Naturopathic Doctor to educate her patients on how they can optimize their health and the health of their families. Her passion lies in supporting the health of future generations, and because of this, she has completed additional training in prenatal and pediatric care, environmental medicine, and hormonal and digestive health. She has a special focus in those areas as she is in practice.Dr. Denise's treatment philosophy is assessing the body as a whole and providing a customized treatment plan. That focuses on current health concerns, prevention, lifestyle, diet, and overall general health goals. Her comprehensive approach to practicing means she can utilize the various modalities of Naturopathic Medicine, allowing for an individualized treatment protocol.Dr. Denise is extremely passionate about her work, which makes her a student for life. She also loves connecting and meeting new people, so you will find her participating in community events. When not at the clinic, you will find her at home with my family binge-watching Netflix, a glass of Cabernet in hand, taking a little too much advantage of online sales.

What's Red, White, and Black & Blue? Don't answer that. Who's still butt hurt over the election? Don't judge me! Who's afraid we are watching the fall of our democratic republic? Don't know yet. Who's back to complain about the government, bad video games, and stupid people? Don't have to guess because the Grinders are back with the first episode of February. With the cold weather and rise of fascism now is a perfect time to game. It might not seem like it, but we all need to take time and unwind. Mental health is important. It will be more important than ever with the struggles to come. A good distraction may be Code Reactors or maybe Cabernet which will both be releasing before the end of the month. The country might not be getting better, but the weather will be as we head into Spring. With Spring we will also see the releases of Yasha: Legends of the Demon Blade and Fuga: Melodies of Steel 3.  The first Stinko goes to Break Man who promises not to talk too much about politics. If this post is not evidence enough, he is STILL complaining about politics. To be fair, everyone should be concerned about the horrible things occurring within the American government. Those aren't the only Stinkos as America has also been dealing with tragic plane crashes. RIP to all those people who lost their lives in those tragic accidents, a popular voice actor, and the president of NIS.  Did we mention that there was also a National Squirrel Appreciation Day. Do not be fooled by the squirrels. They can't be trusted. They are probably on our government's payroll. The last Stinko goes to Break Man for using up all the show time complaining about President Musk, First Lady Donald Trump, and their little dog JD Vance. The NAZI wannabes ruined Game Night but it will be back!  It hasn't even been a month, and the chaos has only begun. Now, more than ever it is time for the American people to stop fighting over petty disagreements before we lose this country and all of our freedoms. While we resist it's important to find time to relax our minds, and what better way is than to listen to a new episode of RPGrinders.              Alternative episode titles:          Don't Be a Kittie.           He Kittied it Up.            We Did NAZI That Coming... oh Wait. Yes, We Did.           Let's Go For it. (Honestly, why did I even write this one down?)  

Western Australia's Margaret River is renowned as one of the world's foremost fine wine hotspots. But it only got started in 1967, so how has it built that reputation so fast? What makes this place unique? Why is it called, 'wine utopia' as well as, 'the best hangover cure known to man'?!Join us as we go behind the scenes with a star-studded list of Margaret River wine royalty, from Cape Mentelle to Cloudburst via Vasse Felix, Cullen, Moss Wood, Xanadu, Voyager, McHenry Hohnen and Larry Cherubino. We talk elegant Cabernet and savoury Chardonnay (plus the odd bit of Savagnin), also touching on things as diverse as Alfred Hitchcock, space invaders, Formula One, Tall Poppy syndrome, kangaroos, transparency, margaritas, radiometrics, raucous birds and short shorts. We even take a moment to appreciate a bit of opera...This is a sponsored episode in conjunction with Western Australian government and industry - the second in a two-parter mini series (check out our episode on the Great Southern to get the first instalment).Thanks for tuning in. We love to hear from you so please do get in touch! Send us a voice message via Speakpipe. Or you can find contact info, together with all details from this episode including full wine recommendations, on our website: Show notes for Wine Blast S6 E11 - Margaret River Finds its VoiceInstagram: @susieandpeter

Steven Kent Steven Kent, owner of The Steven Kent Winery in Livermore Valley, joins Steve Jaxon and Dan Berger on California Wine Country. Dan Berger recently visited Livermore with his friend, winemaker Clark Smith, to investigate Cabernet Franc. Steven given Cabernet Franc a privileged position in his portfolio. For centuries, Cabernet Franc has been used as a blending grape, but Steven says it can do a whole lot more. He has brought four Cabernet Francs for tasting today, Steven Kent's son is the seventh generation of Kent family winemakers. In 1854 they started making wine in San José. The Livermore Valley was a wine producing region forty years before Sonoma County. Steven says that Cabernet Franc and the Livermore Valley both deserve more recognition. Dan attended a Cabernet Franc festival there recently and there were a lot of people there who are very enthusiastic about Cab Franc. Cab Franc: not just a blending grape. Cabernet Franc gets harvested about 2 weeks earlier than Cabernet Sauvignon. It has less tannin and more aromatics with some dried herb character. In some ways it is a finer variety. Dan calls Cab Franc the father and Cab Sauvignon, “the wild and wooly teenage son.” For people who are looking for a slightly different approach to red wine, Cab Franc is a good choice. It is graceful and doesn't have the same power as Cab Sauvignon. They have a 2022 Cab Franc from the Ghielmetti vineyard. Livermore is hot by day but gets cold at night. The nearby Altamont pass is a windy place, which extends the growing season. They would normally harvest this in early November. It gets no new oak. Dan Berger says, “This is red wine of a very serious nature but without any of the heavy tannins or the over-ripe components that sometimes creep into bigger, richer, oilier wines that are aged in barrels.” He also calls it “the Pinot Noir of Cabernet.” Dan would give it two to three more years, but it doesn't need much smoothing because it's already more than half way there. Located in Livermore They are located on Vasco Road in Livermore. Their tasting room is in a light industrial area, with seven other wineries nearby, known call the place “Vasco Row.” They buy 95% of their fruit from their local friends, and the remaining portion from the Santa Cruz area. They have a club lounge at the winery for their members. Dan calls it “uncontaminated by tourists.” The Kents are the oldest continuous winemaking family in the country. Lineage is another label that they produce. When he and his father Steven Kent Senior opened Steven Kent Winery, they wanted to produce high quality Bordeaux style wines. After working with a lot of Rhone varietals, he wanted to return to Bordeaux styles. In 2007 he started Lineage as a Bordeaux blend and so they could produce elegant age-worthy wines that would go well with food. The one they are tasting is the 2017. Dan says it is well-balanced. It's called Lineage because it represents the family history in winemaking.

During this Happy Hour, Tony and Fingers review I. W. Harper Cabernet Cask Reserve. Topics this week include: 1980s soda Jolt Cola is returning to store shelves — with more caffeine than ever. Los Angeles Mayor Karen Bass posed for photos at a cocktail party as the Palisades fire exploded. A Philadelphia Eagles fan was banned for verbally assaulting a Packers fan during an NFL playoff game. Are NFL fans getting out of control? All that, and much more on the latest Happy Hour edition of Eat Drink Smoke! Follow Eat Drink Smoke on social media!X (Formerly Twitter): @GoEatDrinkSmokeFacebook: @eatdrinksmokeIG: @EatDrinkSmokePodcast The Podcast is Free! Click Below! Apple PodcastsAmazon MusicStitcher SpotifySee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

What the hell...where the hell...is the Great Southern?! That's what most people say. Which is why Peter got on a plane and braved fires, snakes and Vegemite to bring you this story of what is arguably Western Australia's best kept secret.Remote? Undoubtedly. Rural? Positively. Hugely exciting for the elegant, refined, often under-valued Riesling, Chardonnay, Cabernet, Shiraz...even Grenache and Mourvedre?! You betcha. So join us on this thrilling journey of discovery, where we paint a soundscape as well as a taste map, and meet wonderful wine personalities who talk us through weird and wonderful things from cuddles to Wonderbras, emperor penguins, the X-factor, shade cloth, resplendence and knitting. Interviewees include Tom Wisdom, Mike Garland (Plantagenet), Erin Larkin, Guy Lyons (Forest Hill), Patrick Corbett (Singlefile), Matt Swinney and Rob Mann (Swinney), Marelize Russouw (Alkoomi), Larry Cherubino and Sid the dog. Our thanks to the Western Australian government and industry for sponsoring this mini-series, whose final and concluding episode is on Margaret River.Thanks for tuning in. We love to hear from you so please do get in touch! Send us a voice message via Speakpipe. Or you can find contact info, together with all details from this episode including full wine recommendations, on our website: Show notes for Wine Blast S6 E10 - Don't Know Western Australia's Great Southern? You ShouldInstagram: @susieandpeter

Tonight we have our first challenge show of 2025.Bordeaux is home to some of the world's most famous and expensive wines. Bordeaux wines are blends made mostly of Cabernet Sauvignon and Merlot. However, additional grape varieties can include Cabernet Franc and Petite Verdot, and Malbec in small amounts. According to the Oxford Companion to Wine, four new red wine grape varieties were approved for Bordeaux in 2021. We will compare the Bordeaux blend to a Cabernet Sauvignon from California. Tonight, we are enjoying a California Cabernet and a Bordeaux Blend: 2018 Tribute Cabernet Sauvignon. This wine was purchased from Costco for $9.99, and comes from Livermore, California. It received a 90 rating from the Wine Enthusiast. Packed with black fruit flavors and robust in texture, this full-bodied wine offers oodles of blackberries and black cherries that are lightly accented with cinnamon and vanilla. It's moderately tannic and well balanced. 2019 Chateau de Marsan. This wine was also purchased from Costco for $7.99. The wine comes from the Lestiac-sur-Garonne district in Cadillac and is made up of 70% Merlot and 30% Cabernet. It is aged 12 months in French oak barrels. Reverse Wine Snob says: Dark fruit, coffee, a little earthiness and some Asian spice. Smooth and juicy. Opens up after a couple of hours. Wine Enthusiast gave the wine a rating of 91.Next week we will taste two wines from Greece: Merastri Red Wine from Crete. This is a three-wine blend Merastri White Wine from Crete. Four-wine blend.

We open a Cabernet Sauvignon Cabernet Franc from Chile. We also review a mead from North Carolina. Plus Milk Day, Star Wars trivia and plans for the last episode of the Winestream.

I am the α & Ω of wine @stewartcellars @Caymuscab @Aowinery #WineTime #NapaValley #CabernetSauvignon

Dan and Mark. Mark McWilliams from Arista Winery is our guest on this edition of California Wine Country with Steve Jaxon and Dan Berger. Dan's weekly cellar dweller bottle is a 2022 Chenin Blanc from Les Atlètes du Vin in France. $15 a bottle at Bottle Barn. Chenin Blanc is coming back. You can get 7-9 tons an acre of Chenin Blanc and it makes nice wine. Mike says it's refreshing. Mark's parents started as grape growers when he was young. They grew a lot of Cabernet. His mom lived in Burgundy after college and got to know Pinot Noir. They family felt a calling to make wine. In 2002 they started the Arista brand to make wine. They use their own grapes and grapes grown elsewhere. Their Chardonnays have been very highly rated. In December they did a 10-year retrospective tasting of their Chardonnay. In 2013 their new winemaker Matt McCourtney was on the job. Now those wines are aging very well and still have years to go. Arista's style has been to focus on the fruit, not on manipulating the wine to make something that the grapes don't want to do. Acidity is always front and center in their wines. They also have the 2021 Russian River Valley Chardonnay. The appellation wines are the top of their production. Wines like this which are not single-vineyard estate wines, are put together on purpose to combine elements ideally. This wine has so much complexity that it promises to age well. Arista is the shining star of California Chardonnays Steve Jaxon quotes Wine Spectator, which declared, "Arista Wines are the shining star of California Chardonnays." Mark says that's because they use the best fruit and they have the best staff. There is a hazelnut component in the flavors that Dan detects. It resembles Meursault which is a district in Burgundy. The wines have trace flavors of hazelnut. There is also a lemon peel component in the nose. But the wine is only 3 years old. "A great Chardonnay like this really deserves time in bottle," says Dan "Lay It Down" Berger. Mark declares that there is world-class Chardonnay coming from California and Oregon and that Burgundy no longer is the only place that makes the best wine from that varietal.

Why does wine taste the way it does? Why does Cabernet smell like blackcurrant? Or Syrah like pepper? Or Beaujolais like...bananas?!In this intriguing show our genial, white-coated guide is wine chemist and sensory scientist Gus Zhu, the first Chinese Master of Wine. As he says, 'Behind every glass of wine, there is science.'In terms of chemistry, wine is one of the most complex solutions on the planet. Not only that, but human senses are notoriously complicated and variable. It all makes answering the question of why wine tastes the way it does...quite tricky.But do not fear - there's plenty to learn and enjoy in this episode, and we touch on things as varied as flowers, cigarettes, farting, petrol, AI, soap, saliva, whisky, urine and strawberry-flavoured yoghurt. NB: you can get 15% off Gus' brilliant new book (Behind the Glass: The Chemical and Sensorial Terroir of Wine Tasting) by using the code WINEBLAST15 at www.academieduvinlibrary.comThanks for tuning in. We love to hear from you so please do get in touch! Send us a voice message via Speakpipe. Or you can find contact info, together with all details from this episode including full wine recommendations, on our website: Show notes for Wine Blast S6 E9 - Lessons in Wine ChemistryInstagram: @susieandpeter

In this episode of The Vint Podcast, hosts Brady Weller and Billy Galanko sit down with Mark Blatty, founder of Byron Blatty Wines, to explore the emerging wine scene in Los Angeles County. Mark shares his journey from a career in the entertainment industry to becoming a vintner, crafting bold and expressive wines that highlight the diverse terroir of Southern California. The conversation dives into the challenges and rewards of sourcing grapes from Malibu, Bel Air, and the high desert regions, and how Byron Blatty Wines is redefining perceptions of LA wine.Mark also recounts the historical roots of winemaking in Los Angeles, touching on his work with the Mission San Gabriel to preserve vines dating back to the 18th century. He explains his winemaking philosophy, which balances classic techniques with modern precision, producing wines that rival Napa Cabernet and Rhône-inspired blends. The hosts discuss the rise of urban tasting rooms, including Byron Blatty's own space in Highland Park, and how it's becoming a hub for education and wine culture.Whether you're a collector, a casual drinker, or someone curious about Southern California's overlooked wine regions, this episode uncovers the passion and innovation driving Byron Blatty Wines. Tune in to learn how Mark and his team are pushing boundaries and elevating Los Angeles as a legitimate winemaking destination.Timestamps00:00 Introduction to the Vent Podcast00:22 New Year Celebrations and Travel Stories01:00 Wine Adventures in Bangkok03:13 Fire Emergency in Bangkok Hotel07:47 Chateau Moussard Experience10:46 Interview with Mark Blatty of Byron Blatty Wines24:38 Exploring LA's Unique Wine Regions26:52 Diving into the Wine Lineup28:09 Challenges and Successes in LA Wine30:18 The Economics of LA Wine32:07 Wine Scores and Market Strategies34:33 Crafting High-Quality Wines43:40 The Story Behind Byron Blatty44:35 Collaborating with Mission San Gabriel50:20 Future Plans and Tasting Room Experience54:00 ConclusionThe Vint Podcast is presented by Coravin, the world's leader in wine preservation systems. Listeners of the Vint Podcast can take 15% off their purchase on Coravin.com by using promo code VINT15 at checkout*. Members of the trade can access exclusive discounts at trade.Coravin.com.The Vint Podcast is a production of the Vint Marketplace, your source for the highest quality stock of fine wines and rare whiskies. Visit www.vintmarketplace.com. To learn more about Vint and the Vint Marketplace, visit us at https://vint.co or Vintmarketplace.com or email Brady Weller at brady@vint.co, or Billy Galanko at Billy@vintmarketplace.com.*Terms and Conditions Apply. Offer valid only on Coravin.com while supplies last. Pricing and discount are subject to change at any time. Coravin reserves the right to limit order quantities. No adjustments to prior purchases. Not valid for cash. Cheers!Past Guests Include: William Kelley, Peter Liem, Eric Asimov, Bobby Stuckey, Rajat "Raj" Parr, Erik Segelbaum, André Hueston Mack, Emily Saladino, Konstantin Baum, Landon Patterson, Heather Wibbels, Carlton "CJ" Fowler, Boris Guillome, Christopher Walkey, Danny Jassy, Kristy Wenz, Dan Petroski, Buster Scher, Andrew Nelson, Jane Anson, Tim Irwin, Matt Murphy, Allen Meadows, Altan Insights, Tim Gaiser, Vince Anter, Joel Peterson, Megan O'Connor, Adam Lapierre, Jason Haas, Ken Freeman, Lisa Perrotti-Brown,...

Tonight I have secretly selected a wine for Denise, and she has chosen one for me. In the show, we will discuss the blind-tasting process, and after discovering each wine's true identity, we will discuss the characteristics (tells) for each.Blind-tasting involves the 5 S's.SeeSwirlSniffSipStateYou can get a “Deductive Tasting Form” from the Court of Master Sommeliers online. https://www.mastersommeliers.org/Tonight, we are blinding tasting two wines including:2022 Tread Softly Pinot Noir from Western Australia. This wine was purchased at Wine Styles for $14.39. It is a translucent cherry juice color, with aromas of ripe strawberries and raspberries, white pepper, dried herbs, and gentle flower nuances. The Wine Enthusiast rated this wine a 89. 2016 Senorio De Villarrica, Rioja Reserva, from Spain. I purchased this wine from Costco for $16.99, and the Wine Enthusiast rated it a 94. Aromas of black cherry, butterscotch and violet, with a touch of black-olive. Flavors of black cherry and pomegranate, sleek tannins and notes of milk chocolate, lavender, and roasted fennel bulb.Next week we will have a challenge show. It is Bordeaux versus California Cabernet. 2018 Tribute Cabernet Sauvignon. This wine was purchased from Costco for $9.99, and comes from Livermore, California. 2019 Chateau de Marsan. This wine was also purchased from Costco for $7.99. The wine comes from the Lestiac-sur-Garonne district in Cadillac and is made of 70% Merlot and 30% Cabernet.

Greenwing Columbia Valley Cabernet In this episode, Rob and Scott review the budget entry Cabernet from Duckhorn's portfolio, the Greenwing Columbia Valley Cabernet.  So come join us, on The Wine Vault.

In the wine industry, it is difficult to plant to demand. At the time of this recording in December 2024, the industry finds itself in a state of oversupply. Audra Cooper Director of Grape Brokerage and Eddie Urman, Central Coast Grape Broker at Turrentine Brokerage discuss the challenges ag faces from a lighter crop to regulatory restrictions to inflation. To remain viable, they stress the importance of farming a quality product that can be made into good wine and sold profitably to continue to support all aspects of the industry. Resources:         185: Why You Need to Talk About Sustainability 221: Future Proof Your Wine Business with Omnichannel Communication Turrentine Brokerage Turrentine Brokerage - Newsletter United States Department of Agriculture Grape Cruse Report Vineyard Team Programs: Juan Nevarez Memorial Scholarship - Donate SIP Certified – Show your care for the people and planet   Sustainable Ag Expo – The premiere winegrowing event of the year Vineyard Team – Become a Member Get More Subscribe wherever you listen so you never miss an episode on the latest science and research with the Sustainable Winegrowing Podcast. Since 1994, Vineyard Team has been your resource for workshops and field demonstrations, research, and events dedicated to the stewardship of our natural resources. Learn more at www.vineyardteam.org.   Transcript [00:00:00] Beth Vukmanic: In the wine industry, it is difficult to plant to consumer demand. At the time of this recording, in December 2024, the industry finds itself in a state of oversupply. Welcome to Sustainable Wine Growing with the Vineyard Team, where we bring you the latest in science and research for the wine industry. [00:00:23] I'm Beth Vukmanic, Executive Director at Vineyard Team. And in today's podcast, Craig Macmillan, Critical Resource Manager at Niner Wine Estates, with longtime SIP certified Vineyard and the first ever SIP certified winery, speaks with Audra Cooper, Director of Grape Brokerage, and Eddie Urman, Central Coast Grape Broker. At Turrentine Brokerage, [00:00:45] They discuss the challenges ag faced in 2024 from a lighter crop to regulatory restrictions, to inflation, to remain viable. They stress the importance of farming a quality product that could be made into good wine and sold profitably to continue to support all aspects of the industry. [00:01:04] Do you want to be more connected with the viticulture industry, but don't know where to start? Become a Vineyard Team member. Get access to the latest science based practices, experts, growers, and wine industry tools through both infield and online education so that you can grow your business. Visit vineyardteam.org To become a member today. [00:01:25] Now let's listen in. [00:01:31] Craig Macmillan: Our guests today are Audra Cooper and Eddie Urman. Audra is director of grape brokerage with Turrentine brokerage. And Eddie is a grape broker for the central coast, also with Turrentine. Thanks for being on the podcast. [00:01:42] Audra Cooper: Thank you for having us. We're excited. [00:01:44] Eddie Urman: yeah, thanks for having us, Craig. [00:01:46] Craig Macmillan: What exactly is a wine and grape brokerage? [00:01:49] Audra Cooper: It's a really fancy term for matchmaking and finding homes for supply. Whether that's through growers having fruit available and needing to sell in a specific year or finding multi year contracts, or that's bulk wine that has been made in excess or maybe a call for a winery needing to find a way of A pressure release valve. [00:02:11] Craig Macmillan: And so you match buyers with sellers, basically. [00:02:13] Audra Cooper: Exactly. [00:02:14] Craig Macmillan: On both sides of the fence. Both the wine and the grape side. Do you have specialists for the grape side? Specialists for the wine side? [00:02:21] Audra Cooper: We do. , you're talking to our newest hire on the grape side, Eddie, who's going to be focused on the Central Coast. We also have Mike Needham in the Central Valley on grapes. Christian Clare in the North Coast specializing in Napa, Sonoma, Lake, and Mendocino on grapes. And then we have three bulk wine brokers, Mark Cuneo, William Goebel, and Steve Robertson. [00:02:40] Craig Macmillan: Your world is very dependent on the marketplace. Obviously, that's what you do. You're brokers. The simple model of quote unquote the market. I think for most people is that you have a consumer who buys wine, wineries make wine, and they sell it to those people who buy it. Vineyards grow grapes up to wineries. [00:02:57] So if there's more demand from consumers, that means there's , more grapes in demand, there's more wine in demand, and there should be higher prices. Or the opposite. That's probably really oversimplified given the unique nature of the wine industry, because , it's not a widget, you know, I don't make a widget, sell it, then go, Ooh, I can make more widgets. [00:03:16] So because of the nature of the business things are on much larger timeframes, right? Audra, [00:03:23] Audra Cooper: They are. I mean, agriculture by nature is, a little bit more of a, what we call an on ramp and off ramp. There's kind of that distance from the time that something is needed versus the time it can be produced. And in the wine industry, it's really difficult to plant to demand. And oftentimes we miss the boat regards to meeting demand with our current supply needs. [00:03:44] So it's really difficult to not only predict, but figure out where consumption is going. And you talked about kind of the simplicity of it and it is true. You can kind of look at the macro market in a very simplistic way, but the reality is in particularly with California, it's very segmented. From value tier up to premium to ultra premium to luxury, and all of those different tiers have different timelines, and some of them converge at moments, depending upon whether there were oversupplied or undersupplied, . So yeah, it can get really complicated and very, very multifaceted. [00:04:18] Craig Macmillan: What's your comment on that, Eddie? [00:04:21] Eddie Urman: Well, I think Audra summed it up pretty well, but yeah, it's a very complex integration of all these things, and planting grapes oftentimes, like Audra said, we tend to overdo it. And we then tend to overdo pushing them out. And it's just kind of a cyclical thing through history where we go from undersupply to oversupply. And right now we're obviously in a pretty large state of oversupply. [00:04:44] Craig Macmillan: Over supply in terms of grapes? [00:04:46] Eddie Urman: Correct [00:04:47] Audra Cooper: and bulk wine. [00:04:48] Craig Macmillan: And bulk wine [00:04:49] what are the kinds of things that are going to lead to a market correction there? Are people going to have to pull out vines? Are they going to have to say, Well, I was planning to sell this wine for 20 bucks a gallon, now I'm going to sell it for 10. [00:05:00] What are some of the dynamics that are going to happen during this time? [00:05:04] Eddie Urman: Well, I think the third rung is consumption, right? Unfortunately the trend over the last two years is consumption is going down in general. And we don't see any signs of it at this time. That's showing it's necessarily going up. We're optimistic and hopeful that it will. And we look forward to seeing the data after the holiday season, but that rung is going to be really important. [00:05:25] The other part is still supply. So pushing vineyards. And we are seeing a lot of people push vineyards. There's no clear number yet of what's been pushed or what will be pushed, but it does seem like there's a lot of parties that will be either ceasing to farm or will be removing vineyards. [00:05:41] Craig Macmillan: This is for either of you to pick up. Are there particular segments where we're seeing this more than in others? Premium versus luxury example. [00:05:48] Audra Cooper: The removal seemed to be really heavily weighted towards the Valley specifically, more of the value tier, because that's our largest volume by far. So we see a lot of removals, particularly in the South Valley that really started to occur even before we felt really oversupplied, and then it started to move north from there, pushed into the Central Coast and even to some degree the North Coast as well. [00:06:10] So you're seeing removals throughout the state of California, and you could even argue that you've seen removals in the Pacific Northwest as well, there's been an oversupply position there, particularly in Washington, and the only two areas that we don't see that dynamic is perhaps Texas to a degree, as well as Oregon. [00:06:27] But there again, they're starting to feel oversupplied as well. They're kind of on the back end of this [00:06:31] the Central Valley is the furthest ahead. And so we may actually see a little bit of a slowdown in removals. They're coming up after the 26th vintage. However, it remains to be seen. I mean, water , constrictions and regulations are going to play a huge factor in that as well, as it will be in the central coast in the near future. [00:06:48] Craig Macmillan: Are there alternate or other crops that may go in, into place instead of grapes? [00:06:53] Audra Cooper: Unfortunately, right now, there's not a good answer for that. In the past, you'd say yes. And there were several alternative crops, particularly in the valley and the central coast, especially when you think of Santa Barbara and Monterey County. Paso Robles is in a little bit of a different position without, you know, a true crop to turn over to. But all of agriculture in California is struggling and has been really affected in the last 24 months, [00:07:16] Craig Macmillan: why the last 24 months, do you think? [00:07:18] Audra Cooper: you know, that's a good question. Part of it is kind of weather patterns in regards to some larger crops and oversupply consumers have certainly had some. Tighter budgets in a lot of respects to the economy. Inflation has played a huge role in that. When we talk about the wine industry, the wine industry is not a necessity as far as the goods. There is certainly a movement towards, you know, what they call no amount of alcohol is healthy for any individual of drinking age. So that certainly has affected our industry, but it's also affected other crops as well and other, other beverages, specifically alcohol. [00:07:53] Craig Macmillan: Eddie, in the Central Coast, what, what have you been seeing? [00:07:56] Eddie Urman: As far as vendor removals or as [00:07:57] Craig Macmillan: Yeah, as far as vineyard removals, things like that. [00:08:01] Eddie Urman: I mean, there are a large number of vineyards that are being pushed out. It's substantial both in Monterey County in Paso Robles, there's parties we're talking to that are also talking about pushing. This upcoming year and not replanting for a year or two. Some are potentially considering alternate other options where they can. But to segue on that, unfortunately it is exceedingly difficult right now to go to any other crop. Cause none of them are necessarily performing super well. [00:08:28] Craig Macmillan: Right. One thing that I'm kind of surprised by based on what you said, Audra, was that we're having the most removal in that value segment where we have the most supply. It would seem to me that if demand out there in the marketplace and folks don't have a lot of money, it seems like there'd be more demand for those value products. [00:08:48] Like, I would think that the contraction would be at the higher level, the expensive level, as opposed to the lower price level. Is there a mechanism there that I'm missing? [00:08:56] Audra Cooper: I think there's not necessarily a mechanism per se. I think there's a layer of complication there that doesn't make it a simple apples to apples position in regards to where consumers are spending their money. A lot of consumers who are brought by, you know, ultra premium to luxury, they may have not been as affected in a relative sense by the economy and inflation is someone who is perhaps playing in more of that value tier. [00:09:21] Okay. Whether it was bag in a box, larger liter, whatever it may have been, you know, that tier that's 12.99 and below had already started to see some impacts during pre immunization. And that was from 2012 until about 2020. And then it's just been really wonky since 2020 in our industry and really difficult to read the tea leaves and as far as where things were going. And I think a lot of the new plantings that we did, In 2011 through 2016 really came online in the central valley as well. So it just, it was almost a perfect storm, unfortunately, for the value tier. But that's not to say that these other tiers haven't been impacted as well, just to a lesser degree. [00:10:01] Craig Macmillan: Right, exactly. Is this also true on the bulk wine side, Audra? [00:10:04] Audra Cooper: Oh, certainly. I think anytime that you look at our industry, the bulk wine market actually leads the trend in regards to the direction we're going. So anytime we start to see multiple vintages, Or one vintage really start to increase in volume and availability in all likelihood. We're about 12 months, maybe eight behind the market with grapes. [00:10:25] So bulk will start to kind of slow down, stack up on inventory. Prices will start to drop. We'll still be doing just fine on grapes. We'll get multi year contracts. Prices are at least sustainable, if not profitable. And then suddenly we'll start to see the same trend on grapes. [00:10:39] Craig Macmillan: How many, or, and Eddie might be able to answer this for the Central Coast. How many folks on the grape side are having wines made from their grapes? Like under contract strictly for bulk. I've got a hundred tons of Sauvignon Blanc unsold. That's a lot, but unsold. I'm going to go ahead and take my chances on the bulk market. [00:11:00] Eddie Urman: you're saying Specking it. [00:11:01] So yeah, crushing it and specking it on the bulk market. Surely there are parties that did that, but I would say there is definitely a lot less parties that did that this year. In 2024 specifically. multiple reasons. One, specifically in Paso Robles, the crop was quite light which increased some late demand for some Cabernet specifically. [00:11:22] Sauvignon Blanc was one of the other varieties that was , in demand because of how light it was. Monterey in Santa Barbara County, it seems like there were parties that decided to just leave grapes on the vine. even in internal vineyards for companies that produce their own wine rather than turn it into bulk. And Audra, please add anything if you feel. [00:11:43] Audra Cooper: I think from a specific standpoint, you know, that was a great way of answering that. I think one of the things to keep in mind is I, I know that we should definitely be mindful of educating and being informative in a general sense, right? The rule of thumb when you're a grape grower and you're trying to sell fruit is if it is difficult to sell as grapes, It will typically be exponentially more difficult to sell as bulk wine. [00:12:07] And so taking that position as a way of bringing profit back , to your vineyard, nine times out of 10 is not going to work out. And that one time is technically a lightning strike and it's extraordinarily difficult to predict that [00:12:20] Craig Macmillan: So not a lot of folks wouldn't be wise to do that for a lot of folks. [00:12:23] Audra Cooper: generally. No, I mean, I think most growers, particularly independent growers do not have the wherewithal or the risk adversity to be able to play the bulk market in any significant way. Okay. Mm [00:12:37] Craig Macmillan: Well, let's talk about wineries playing the bulk market. I've got extra stuff. Now, if it's all internal, if I'm growing my own grapes and turning them into my products, it sounds like I would want to maybe leave things on the vine, or just simply not put my investment into producing those wines. Where do bulk wines come from if they're not coming from spec grower spec operations, if they're coming from wineries in particular? [00:13:01] Things that are cut out for quality, things that are cut out for volume [00:13:04] Audra Cooper: Yeah, a multitude of reasons. I mean, the wineries typically use the bulk wine market as what I had alluded to earlier, which is a pressure release valve, right? When they are short or they are long, they're looking to the bulk market, whether that's to buy or sell. Now, that's certainly not every single winery that does that. Particularly some boutique operations, or even a lot of the DTCs would prefer not to play on the bulk wine market, but at times dabble in it. [00:13:27] Another reason to go to the bulk wine market as a buyer is to start a program. If you've gotten, you know, interest from a retailer, for example, for, you know, a control label that's an easy way to research whether or not it is an economic profitable project for your winery, as well as whether or not you can actually find the varietal. And the volume needed for that project. [00:13:49] So there is a multitude of reasons for the bulk wine market to essentially exist and be utilized. But the traditional model is to sell excess on the bulk wine market to someone else who actually needs it. The challenge right now is, we hit about 29 million gallons of actively listed bulk wine for California back in April or June, and that number really didn't decrease until recently. It's the highest inventory that we'd ever seen going into harvest, and when we have those dynamics, that bulk wine market's utilization becomes a little bit, shall I say, sludgy, in the sense of, Most everyone's trying to sell they're not trying to buy. [00:14:29] Craig Macmillan: Eddie, do you have anything to add? [00:14:30] Eddie Urman: no, I think Audra summed it up pretty good. I mean, you asked, how does it end up on the bulk market? I don't think at this point, there's a ton of players that are planning to put it on the bulk market per Audra's point, but wineries are in their best faith trying to secure the amount of fruit they need to then make wine. That they have a home for IE sale, you know, some sort of sales, but as we've seen contraction in sales, unfortunately for some parties, they're forced to make decisions to put it on the bulk market. That'd be correct. Audra. [00:14:59] Audra Cooper: be a correct way of saying it. And also to have to remember, we're essentially making wine for the future when we're harvesting fruit, right and putting it in tank. And so it's really difficult to predict exactly how much 2024 someone's actually going to be able to put out on the shelf and ship. So I think that's the other element to is, by their model , what they purchased and what they received now, of course, 24 is going to be a poor example of that with how light the crop was, but in general, they're buying for what they predict to be their demand and needs [00:15:30] and in all reality, when it's bottled. Packaged and shipped out, those numbers may look dramatically different. Hence the reason why it's going to end up on the bulk market. If it in fact is already in excess. There are some negotiants that may actually in some years where they think the market's pretty good and they can be profitable, we'll go out and spec, but that kind of business model is few and far between compared to say 15 years ago, [00:15:54] Craig Macmillan: Interesting and that kind of leads us to where we are now. You've already touched on it a little bit. We just finished, this is November of 2024, we're just wrapping up the harvest in California. Obviously it's a crystal ball thing, but basically, at the moment, how are we looking? It sounds like we had a light harvest. I'm going to ask you about that. A light harvest. And it sounds like that was pretty much true throughout the coast of California. Is that right? [00:16:20] Audra Cooper: generally, yes, there were regions and AVAs that did better than others. For example, parts of the North Coast with the exception of Sonoma and Napa, so Mendocino Lake and Sassoon, they were not as light as, say, Paso Robles on Paso Robles Cabernet or Sauvignon Blanc, but they were still below expectations in most cases. There's just certain areas that were impacted further. far more and may actually be at historical low yields. And I'll let Eddie touch upon kind of his experience specifically in Paso, because I think it's one of the more impacted regions in California. [00:16:55] Craig Macmillan: Yeah, yeah. Go ahead, Eddie. [00:16:56] Eddie Urman: Yeah. I think kind of extrapolate on what Audra was speaking to. Paso Robles was exceptionally light last year. I think, you know, our numbers are fluctuating and we'll, we'll see what was actually processed, but potentially 50 percent down from the five year average on Paso cab. And potentially one of the lightest crops we've seen in, potentially 20 years, or at least for sure in my career. Luckily 2024 for Paso was light. And because of that, there were people trying to secure extra cab and South Blanc towards the end of harvest. Unfortunately to, to Audra's point, the rest of the state wasn't as light in other areas. It's going to be pretty interesting to see how it all unfolds because it's probably more regional. [00:17:39] Craig Macmillan: And so we're saying fortunately light because the longterm impact would be that we will have less wine going into an already crowded marketplace. [00:17:50] Eddie Urman: But we also came off 2023, which was probably historically one of the largest crops we've ever seen in the state. So if we would have had a crop like that back to back, that would have been devastating. [00:18:01] Audra Cooper: Yeah, man, that's, that's so very true. And I think it's really important too, to hit upon, you know, the late season purchasing and the run that we saw on grapes. specifically in Paso for Cabernet and to some degree Sauvignon Blanc as well. But I'm going to really kind of lean towards Cab and even some of the red blenders. A lot of that was replacement demand. So it was demand that had been met by a current contract, but because the crop was so extraordinarily light, It had to be made up for somewhere. So there was a need for the fruit that was contracted, but if we didn't have that dynamic with available grapes, we probably would have had grapes left on the vine. [00:18:38] And we did to some degree, but just far less than what was predicted in 2024. [00:18:44] Craig Macmillan: This reminds me also of the, the concept of volatility. How volatile is the bulk wine grape grape market? We talked about these long time frames, which means your price changes you would think would be slow. Is, is there a lot of jumping around just in the course of a calendar year? [00:18:59] Audra Cooper: Yes and no. It really depends on the year. I would certainly say that in very light years we will see more volatility on price. Then in years where it's way oversupplied, or we have a large crop that creates more stability, good or bad, with a heavier crop. But it's not as volatile as maybe some other markets that people are trying to, you know, short on, for example, with the Wall Street guys. It's not quite like that either. So there is a little bit more stability built into it. [00:19:27] I think the challenge Happens often is a lot of people build their business models off of the district averages and the district averages don't show as much volatility as the, you know, yearly spot market does. [00:19:40] And unfortunately, it used to be a rule of thumb that about 10 percent of California supply was on the spot market every single year. Now I think that's closer to probably 30 something percent. I mean, it's really jumped in the last few years. [00:19:54] We have to remember our industry has been in a really interesting and an unfortunate position of retracting over the last couple of years with consumer demand declining, with the economic impacts with inflation, with lack of, you know, operating loans being readily available like they were. [00:20:10] I mean, things have changed pretty dramatically. I have a strong belief. I won't even say hope because hope's not a strategy. I have a strong belief that, you know, as we go through some of these challenges, We'll essentially build back and we'll get to a healthier position. And I do think that some of the worst things are some of the bigger pain points we either, recently have gone through and are over with or that we're in currently. So I don't think it's going to get much worse, but it remains to be seen. That one's a hard one to kind of figure out. But my, my thought is that with the lighter crop, it's certainly going to help the bulk wine market, not stack up, you know, a large fifth vintage, cause we have currently five vintages stacked. Stacked on top of each other in bulk wine market, which again, is the most amount of vintages I've seen in the 18 years I've been doing this. And that does show, you know, we met with a client yesterday and they said, our industry is sick. And I think that's actually a really great way of putting it. We're we're kind of in a sick position and we just need to figure out how to get to a healthier spot. [00:21:10] Craig Macmillan: five vintages stacked up that, so we're talking, there's like 2019 that are still in the market. Then [00:21:16] Audra Cooper: There is a little tiny bit of 2019, there's a tiny bit of 2020, and then you get into 21, 22, 23, and then the 24s are starting to come on. [00:21:25] Craig Macmillan: is there a home for something that's that old, even [00:21:30] 2020, [00:21:31] Audra Cooper: I mean, 2022 is about the oldest vintage back that I would say, in all likelihood, there's a reasonable wine based home, and even that's starting to get a little bit long in the tooth when we talk about 21 and 2020. Forget about 2019, that should have gone somewhere at some point long ago. Those vintages in all likelihood, again, they're smaller amounts, I think they're less than 100, 000 gallons each. [00:21:57] They're gonna have to go somewhere, whether it's destroyed or they go to DM. [00:22:01] Craig Macmillan: right? What's DM. [00:22:03] Audra Cooper: Distilled materials. [00:22:04] Craig Macmillan: There we go. Perfect. [00:22:06] Eddie, if you were advising a grape growing, what is your view? Looking ahead, what's your crystal ball say as far as removals, planting, varietal changes, clone changes, rootstock changes, anything like that? [00:22:20] Eddie Urman: Yeah, well we get that question a lot and it's pretty difficult to answer. At this point, you know, growers should really be considering which blocks they should be farming. They should be strongly considering pushing out blocks that are older or have no chance at receiving a price sustainably farm it. economically. And as far as planting goes right now, it's all over the board. It depends on the region, you know, where you're at within the central coast. That's which is my region specifically. And even then it's pretty hard to justify to somebody right now. It's a good time to plant. [00:22:56] That's [00:22:57] Craig Macmillan: that does make sense, I am thinking about other interviews that I've done with, with plant, plant pathology. Where it seems like everything is going to someplace bad in a hand basket because vines are dying. Do I replant that? You would think that diseases, like trunk disease, for instance, would alleviate some of this. [00:23:15] Vines would need to come out of production. Do you see that kind of thing happening? Do you think people are picking not just older, but maybe damaged or diseased or infested vineyards, taking those out of production and then not replanting those? [00:23:27] Eddie Urman: Yeah, they definitely are. The, difficult thing with vineyards compared to certain other crops is the fixed costs that go into installing a vineyard, which has gone up drastically in the last 15 years. So it's really difficult for a grower to push a vineyard you know, spend $2,000 an acre to push a vineyard or whatever it may be, and then decide, okay, we're just going to replant next year and spend 45, 000 or 40, 000. On reinstalling a vineyard. It's, it's a lot of money. Especially if it's on spec and, and honestly, sometimes it can't even get financing to do it. [00:23:59] So unfortunately, a lot of these players will need to say, we'll try to stick it out and say, okay, what if we just weather the storm one more year, the eternal optimist, the eternal optimist. View. I think we're finally starting to see that some people are, are making some tough decisions and it's, it's sad to see, but it's what needs to happen as far as pushing some of these vineyards that are diseased or too old to be productive. [00:24:20] Audra Cooper: I think he did a, you know, a service to everyone by talking about that, because the older plantings for as long as people had to hold on to them you know, we, talk a lot about, you know, oh, the 1990s plantings and they need to go away. Well, that's really easy to say it's a little more difficult to do, particularly again, if you're an independent grower. Relatively small, maybe your 20 acres, you know, the likelihood of you being able to get a planting contract and or getting financing to redevelop is slim to none. So you're going to hold on as long as you can. And that really has kind of added to the bottom line of supply as well. We have a lot of acreage that is finally starting to get removed that should have been removed years ago. [00:25:01] Craig Macmillan: And again, thinking in like classical high school economic terms It seems like grape prices have been going up, at least on Paso and some of those kind of more luxury areas. Is that true? Or is there a real cap on price compared to what it could have been? Or are we in decline? What, what's, what's happening right now? [00:25:24] Ha [00:25:24] Audra Cooper: I think that's actually a very loaded question in some respects because [00:25:30] Craig Macmillan: yeah, it [00:25:31] Audra Cooper: It's highly dependent on what we're talking about, right? If we're talking about Westside and we're talking about some of the Rhone Whites that are now in vogue, yeah, their pricing has started to increase even in spite of the market, right? Because they are in demand, but they're more of a niche market as well. They're not part of the macro market. Whereas you look at Paso Cab, The district average was starting to kind of climb back up again, but if you look at the spot market, it has declined dramatically over the last two years. And I think we're in our third decline now, as far as per year per vintage you look at, for example, Monterey County, Pinot, and I think you can easily make the argument prices dramatically decreased over the last several years. You know, it had a great run post sideways and unfortunately we way over planted and we planted it in a time where there was a lot of virus material that unfortunately got put into the ground and then we oversaturated the market on the shelves as well from a national distribution standpoint, if you want to talk about maybe some cool climate, Sarah, yeah, pricing continues to go up, but they're again, very nichey. So I guess the long winded thing is macro sense. Prices have been on the decline. Niche, it depends on what it is and where it is. [00:26:46] Craig Macmillan: And I, I got this from you, Audra, from another interview you did. What is the difference between a light harvest and a short harvest? And the reason I ask this is because it, on the wine side, talking to people, it's like, Oh, it's going to be a short harvest, coming up short. As in, I don't have enough. [00:27:02] I'm coming up short. It's like, I don't have dollar bills in my pocket. That's totally different than having not a lot of grapes. [00:27:09] Audra Cooper: Yeah, I mean, from a market perspective in which we operate, those two words have very different definitions. Light to me is regarding your yield per acre, your production. It's a light year. We're below average thresholds. Short on the other hand is more of an economic demand supply term that we utilize when The actual crop being delivered falls short of the actual demand. And that's a little bit tricky this year because a lot of people were saying the crop is short. Well, it was in only some cases. For example, Sauvignon Blanc, specifically in Paso, it was short. There's, I don't think there's really any arguing that. Paso Cab, I think it depends on what winery and which grower you are. There were growers who were sold out and fully contracted that were not able to meet their contracts and their wineries would have taken every single time they could have delivered. That's a short situation. Now, on the other hand, I've got some other stuff that say is like a 1997 planting that, you know, didn't have a whole lot of demand. They were light in their crop yield, but they were not short in their supply. [00:28:18] Craig Macmillan: What are things that growers in particular can do to set themselves apart in the marketplace? You mentioned niche, we've mentioned county average pricing, wherever you would like to be selling their grapes for more than that. And they do. What are things that people can do to kind of set themselves apart? Eddie. [00:28:35] Eddie Urman: That's a great question. It's a very difficult question. I think I'll start on the other end of the spectrum. You hear somewhat frequently people talk about minimal farming, or can they do just to get you by this year, get you into the next year what we've discussed with multiple people and what my belief is, unfortunately, if you decide to minimally farm or do the absolute bare minimum, you're boxing yourself into a area of the market. Where there's no chance you're gonna get a price that's really gonna even break even. I think most parties would agree to that. The best thing for our industry, and specifically Paso Robles, the Central Coast, is we need to continue to deliver quality products that, you know, a winery can make into good wine and sell at a good price. Right. So we need to continue to improve on our farming techniques, improve on our utilization of the resources we have to provide that product and reach a sustainable point of price to where vineyards can sustain, growers can continue to stay in business, and wineries can then take that product and sell it in a bottle profitably at a store or restaurant or whatever it may be. [00:29:45] So I kind of danced around your question, but my personal opinion is, if you want to be in this business and you want to create a product, you know, create a grape that people want to buy, you have to put the money into it to farm it. It sounds easy to say it's extremely difficult for the people making these decisions right now. [00:30:03] Craig Macmillan: You may have to spend a little money. [00:30:05] Audra Cooper: you definitely do. I mean, I think, Anytime that you slow down on what you spend, unfortunately you start to decrease your marketability. And that is so difficult in years like this, where as a broker, you watch someone cut their budget and their spending in half and you immediately notice, I can't sell your fruit. And that's a difficult thing because you can't necessarily guarantee that you can sell their fruit either. So how do you justify someone spending, you know, their normal budget? [00:30:37] One of the things that growers specifically can do is they can identify their value proposition. And for many, it's going to be unique, and some of them are going to have similarities. Part of that is, and I'm probably going to get myself in trouble a little bit here, the old kind of lead with, you know, I've gotten these gold medals for the wine that I produced off of my vineyard at these, you know, county fairs or this competition. Unfortunately, they just don't count anymore with marketing winemakers that are, you know, new on the scene, or perhaps with a new corporation, or, Somebody who's been through kind of the ropes, these things don't have any weight anymore. [00:31:17] But what does have weight is understanding what your buyer's needs are and how your vineyard actually fits those needs. So really understanding, where you fit into the market. Not everyone's going to have the best grapes in the region. And that's okay because maybe that is already oversaturated. [00:31:34] Maybe you need to hit a middle tier winery that's selling at 15. 99 and you know that you can be sustainable at $1,500 because this is your budget XYZ and it fits. You know, you don't necessarily have to be the 3, 000 or 4, 000 guy on the west side in Adelaide or Willow Creek. That's not going to be for everybody. [00:31:54] So really finding your position is really important and also what you provide to that buyer. And it's really simple, and I know it's actually probably very elementary to say, but what can you do to help make the people you work with at that winery make them look good? Because they'll also do that for you in return. [00:32:11] Craig Macmillan: and specifically in your experience, especially to start with you Eddie are there particular practices management styles, management philosophies that seem to be attractive to wineries that they're more likely to maybe buy from that grower? [00:32:25] Eddie Urman: Yeah, I'll just probably give a little more detail here, but my experience comes mostly from larger scale farming. At the end of the day, I think the more you put into farming it appropriately, IE you know, good pruning techniques good cultural practices, whether they be shoot thinning leafing, depending on your trellis style wire moves second crop drop or, or green drop. Those are all things that, you know, wineries are going to think are a positive thing. [00:32:54] Now, is it going to match every single program to Audra's point? And you don't always have to be the person selling $3,000 per ton cabernet. Some people can make just fine in those middle tiers. [00:33:03] And we need those people too, because there's bottles that need to go on the shelves there. So if you can have an open, reasonable discussion with your winery and what their expectations are and what you can actually provide at a certain price point and yield I think that's really important place to start. [00:33:18] Craig Macmillan: Audra? [00:33:18] Audra Cooper: Yeah, I think there's a couple things. Again, this is very elementary, but say what you do and do what you say. Following through with your word and what your plan is, is very, very important and being very consistent with your practices and the end product that you try to provide. I mean, consistency in agriculture, particularly in growing wine grapes, is very difficult, but those who achieve it are the ones that typically don't have as much volatility in their ability to sell fruit. on, you know, a term contract, typically. [00:33:46] I think the other thing, too, keeping in mind is managing personalities, too, and understanding, you know, who's the right fit for each other. I think that's really important, I think, from a practice's standpoint and I think this is becoming more and more commonly acceptable, but shoot thinning, when I first arrived in Paso even Monterey County, for that matter, is, was not very common. [00:34:10] It's becoming more and more common, and I think it's actually very important. And Eddie has kind of reaffirmed and reassured me since he started with Turrentine Brokerage, and I kind of failed to remember my basics. Pruning is everything. And I think sometimes often more than not, you know, pruning actually kind of gets It's in my mind kind of degraded and, you know, people try to make up for things later on and we start with the right foundation, usually have some consistency. [00:34:36] Craig Macmillan: So that's somewhere you may want to pay more attention and spend some more of your money there than in some other things. [00:34:42] Audra Cooper: Well, and your plan starts there, right? [00:34:43] So whatever you start with at pruning, that's your beginning plan. In all likelihood, you need to write that out. [00:34:49] Eddie Urman: , be intentional with your pruning plan. From the time you start the season, you should have a plan. Okay. This is what we're going to target this year and you got to stick to it. . [00:34:57] Craig Macmillan: What about, , certifications? There was a time not that long ago when going for whether it's SIP or organic we've got regenerative now a lot of folks looked at that and said, hey, this is going to help set me apart. This is going to help and with buyers, buyers are going to be interested in wanting these types of products. [00:35:18] Have you seen that take place? [00:35:20] Audra Cooper: Yeah, I have a really, really strong opinion on sustainable certification. And I'm sure a lot of our clientele is probably tired of me hitting this drum too loudly, but the reality is at one point, sustainable certification, regardless of which it is. Was a nice to have and the occasional request now. It's a it's a need to have must have [00:35:39] if you are not sustainably certified you are cutting your marketability I wouldn't say in half but pretty close now a lot of our buyers are requiring it and even if they don't require it suddenly asking at the end of harvest Oh, did they have a certification? and then the answer is no well now you may be on the chopping block of we may not re sign that fruit because Our retailers are asking us, what are we doing in regards to, you know, our kind of our social impacts in our economic and our environmental impacts? And it may not be on the bottle per se, but it's in the conversation. And so to be able to provide that information to the end user is really important [00:36:19] when it comes to the other certifications. Certainly organic is trending. It is trended off and on in our industry. Unfortunately, we don't see a big premium being paid for, for grapes that are organically certified with some exceptions. [00:36:33] And so that's really hard, I think, from an industry to, to really grow in that manner. Regenerative is certainly another trend. I think we're on the beginning cusp of it, so I don't see it as, you know, impactful as sustainably certified on macro level. As I do sustainable. So it'll be interesting to see where that goes. [00:36:53] I think organic those probably going to trend a little bit more in 26 and 27 just based on the players that are currently asking about it. [00:37:01] Craig Macmillan: What do you have to add, Eddie? [00:37:02] Eddie Urman: Yeah, I think Audra's absolutely right. We are in a state of excess or oversupply. So wineries are more intensely looking at. How can we differentiate one vineyard or one grower versus the next? And sustainability comes up in most conversations regarding that. So it's turning more from an option to more of a necessity. [00:37:24] I think one thing that there's a trend for unfortunately too, or it can be unfortunately for some people, is they're herbicide free. So there are some people that are interested in herbicide free. It's not a certification, [00:37:34] Craig Macmillan: Yeah, just simply as a practice. Yeah, I, agree with you. I'm hearing more and more about that all the time. And that's a, that's a big shift for a lot of growers. That's a very costly change to make. But you're absolutely right. That is a topic of conversation. That is definitely something that people are talking about in, in the broader world. There's a lot of news attention to that, especially around places like France and stuff, or that's going to be kind of a requirement probably in the future. [00:38:01] Audra Cooper: I just want to add really quick. One of the challenges that we see is Oftentimes wineries will come to the market requesting these differentiation points, right, in regards to practices, and it's really difficult because when they come to the market, a lot of these processes and procedures needed to have already been put into place, right? They would have already had to be intended or implemented in the field. And so we're, again, almost a bridge behind in regards to what demand currently is and, and this particular trend. Especially when we talk about organic herbicide free. These are very intentional, time intensive planning processes that we've got to get ahead of. [00:38:43] And I don't have a great answer because the market doesn't support a higher price per ton right now. And the reality is there are capital intensive changes in farming, but we're going to need to find a solution here soon because I do see this as a challenge in the market moving forward. [00:38:59] Craig Macmillan: and I think there's some research that kind of bears that out even at the consumer level where if I'm presented with two products that are the same price and one has a desirable quality, whether it's a practice or certification or something like that, you would say, you know, Which one would you like? [00:39:14] You say, well, I want the sustainable one. And then you ask the consumer, well, how much would you pay? And there's very little willingness to pay difference in some of these studies. In others, they show a meaningful amount, but a lot of them, a lot of the studies don't. And so I think we're kind of moving towards a standard operating procedure that's gonna be around these things and that's gonna raise costs and that's gonna be a real financial challenge for people, I agree. [00:39:38] Eddie, what is one thing you would tell growers around this topic of the market and everything else? [00:39:43] Eddie Urman: I think it was , the statement I made earlier is be intentional, like have a plan going into this year. We farmers tend to be optimistic and we tend to just think, okay, well, this year it's going to turn, you know, we've had a couple of bad years. It's going to get better this year. There's no guarantee that's going to take place this year. And we'd love to sit here and say it will. So make sure you have a plan that makes sense. And has a reasonable chance at having a positive outcome. If it's farming your 30 year old vineyard, 35 year old vineyard, that's for sure, only going to get three tons an acre or less on a best case scenario, no weather influences, no outside factors, no heat spells, and it's going to cost you 5, 000 an acre to farm it. You're not going to make your money back in most instances, unfortunately, not even break even. [00:40:29] Craig Macmillan: Audra, what is one thing you would tell growers? [00:40:31] Audra Cooper: That's a good question. And I think it's highly dependent on the grower and the clientele and where they are and what they have. I think that planning for your future is critical right now, not taking it year by year. And making changes in advance of needing to make changes is a huge one. Honestly, it's really getting sharp with your business pencil and in your business intention, your business plan. It's not just farming right now. I think you have to plan on how do you survive the current marketplace and how do you get to the other side? And unfortunately, it's not a cookie cutter plan for everyone. It's very customized and it's very specific. [00:41:11] And the other thing that I mentioned earlier, really understanding your value proposition in the market. That is critical because I can't tell you the number of times I've had people And very wonderful, good growers who are very intelligent, but they were very misguided by whether it was, you know, a real estate agent or a consultant or just people surrounding who also had good intentions, but they weren't knowledgeable about the marketplace. And, you know, those growers either planted wrong, entered the market wrong, had to have high expectations built into their budget on the price per ton long term, all these things matter. And all these things really matter for success. [00:41:48] Craig Macmillan: Where can people find out more about you two? Audra. [00:41:51] Audra Cooper: Yeah you can go to our website, www. TurrentineBrokerage. You can of course call myself or Eddie or email us. You'll often see us up on, you know, a stage or in a room speaking on behalf of the marketplace. I've got something coming up soon in February as well. Yeah, there's, there's a multitude of ways of getting a hold of us. [00:42:10] Probably our website's the easiest because it has all the information. [00:42:13] Craig Macmillan: Fantastic. Well, thank you both for being on the podcast. Really interesting conversation. lot to think about. A lot to think about. Intentional farming, I think that's one of the key things we're taking away here is what's your intention. And that's not always such an easy thing to decide upon. You know, it's tough. [00:42:31] Audra Cooper: It is tough. We thank you and we appreciate it. It was a pleasure talking with you as well. [00:42:36] Eddie Urman: yeah, thank you very much, Craig. [00:42:37] Craig Macmillan: You bet. So our guest today, Audra Cooper, she is director of grape brokerage and Eddie Urman, who is central coast grape broker for Turentine brokerage. Thank you both for coming out and to our listeners, keep downloading those episodes. There's lots of great information there. Check the show page or there's lots of resources and look for other podcasts. [00:42:55] We have tons and tons of episodes on all kinds of topics and please keep coming back and thank you. [00:43:01] Audra Cooper: Thank you. [00:43:02] Beth Vukmanic: Thank you for listening. Make sure you check out the show notes for links to Turrentine brokerage crush reports, and sustainable wine growing podcast episodes, 185, why you need to talk about sustainability. And 221 future proof your wine business with Omnichannel communication. [00:43:27] If you liked this show, do us a big favor by sharing it with a friend, subscribing and leaving us a review. You can find all of the podcasts at vineyardteam.org/podcast. And you can reach us at podcast at vineyardteam.org. [00:43:40] Until next time, this is sustainable wine growing with the vineyard team.   Nearly perfect transcription by Descript

Brandi, Dan, Steve and Mike. Mike Carpenter, The Redd Collection owner is back on California Wine Country with Steve Jaxon and Dan Berger. His last time on the show was this episode on November 3, 2023. Dan Berger has brought a magnum of a wine that he himself made 33 years ago. It is a 1991 Cabernet from the Napa Valley. Its aging was in an old French oak barrel. It was a project for his family, when his sons were young, the youngest was 4 that year. They opened it last night and it was still really good. Mike Carpenter from the Redd Collection is back on California Wine Country. The Redd Collection is a wine retail business that is built on a stock of old, rare and collectable wines. There are some rare wines, such as an old vine Chablis, from 2020. Dan Berger says this is French style Chardonnay “to beat the band.” This drinks like a $100 bottle but sells for $45, says Mike. The Redd Collection began with a large inventory acquired from a single collector. His name was close to Redd, and the client did not want his own name on it, so the name Redd is a derivation from that. Visit Chigazola Merchants online to shop their unique selection of fine Italian wines. Mike used to work in a wine store in LA, where there was a stock that is boring and overwhelming. “150 feet of the same varietal.” He wanted wines that were unique, old and rare. Dan points out that these wines are already aged, so the wines have the mature character that you cannot get from underaged wines. Also, it is expensive to store wine properly. Dan also mentions that these wines have been carefully vetted, for origin and quality but also for how they have been kept. The first thing that goes in the fruit, when a wine has not been aged properly. The Zelma Long collection He is currently offering private collection of a famous Napa Valley winemaker named Zelma Long. There is a wide selection of wines that go back to the ‘50s and '60s. The oldest is a half bottle of 1929 wine. Zelma Long was a great collector of wine. She was a winemaker at Robert Mondavi. He wrote in his book that losing Zelma Long from his staff was his biggest regret. She became the winemaker at Simi for a long time. She became the president at Simi which made her the first woman top executive at a major winery.

Chateau Lynch-Bages In this episode, Rob and Scott conduct an expensive experiment to see how does a classic wine age when stored and sold by idiots?  To do this we review the Chateau Lynch-Bages Grand Cru from the year Rob graduated high school being 1996.  So come join us on The Wine Vault.

Nestled at 1,500 feet atop Bennett Mountain, overlooking Bennett Valley, Coursey Graves Estate Winery boasts some of the most breathtaking views in Sonoma County—I can vouch for it, having had the pleasure of working there for the past year. (This explains why I've been behind on updating this podcast and my website.) Guests are often struck by the beauty, exclaiming, “This is gorgeous!” From every vantage point, there's something to admire: sweeping vistas that stretch for miles, a serene Monet-inspired pond framed by stately oak trees, lush, colorful gardens, and the occasional visit from local wildlife. The wines themselves are marvelous, capturing the essence of their unique origins. Chardonnay and Pinot Noir reflect the elegance of the cool-climate Sonoma Coast vineyards in which they're grown. The Estate Cabernet blend (currently Cabernet Sauvignon, Merlot, and Malbec) and Syrah embody the rugged volcanic soils and rock in which they're grown. The vines, with roots that dive deep, are often blanketed in early evening to late morning fog, yielding wines with remarkable complexity and character. Find more details and photos at courseygraves.com. On this podcast, you'll hear from talented winemaker Matt Casalenue. Click play to discover his perspective on what makes this estate truly special. For more photos of the winery, visit my website https://onthewineroad.us/coursey-graves-estate-winery.  On The Wine Road Podcast is sponsored by SonomaCleanPower.org.  The closing music is composed by Marscott.

Join Advanced Sommeliers David Reuss and Trey Christy as they discuss all things Verite Winery.

Banfi Col di Sasso Toscana IGT In this episode, Rob and Scott review the budget Cab blend from Banif known as Col di Sasso.  So come join us, on The Wine Vault.

What causes the “red wine headache”? Is it sulfites? A histamine reaction? Andrew Waterhouse, Professor Emeritus of Enology in the Department of Viticulture and Enology at UC Davis and Apramita Devi, Postdoctoral Scholar in the Department of Viticulture and Enology at UC Davis have identified a flavanol that can interfere with the metabolism of alcohol. That flavanol is quercetin, a natural product made in grape skins in response to sunlight. It is a natural sunscreen produced to protect the fruit from ultraviolet light. This conversation covers why quercetin may be more prevalent in high end wines, how skin contact during wine production impacts quercetin levels, and why sulfites may play a role in “red wine headache”. Resources:         74: The Spirit of Wine Andrew Waterhouse Andrew Waterhouse | Google Scholar Andrew Waterhouse | LinkedIn Apramita Devi | LinkedIn Apramita Devi |Google Scholar Inhibition of ALDH2 by quercetin glucuronide suggests a new hypothesis to explain red wine headaches Why Do Some People Get Headaches From Drinking Red Wine?  Vineyard Team Programs: Juan Nevarez Memorial Scholarship - Donate SIP Certified – Show your care for the people and planet   Sustainable Ag Expo – The premiere winegrowing event of the year Sustainable Winegrowing On-Demand (Western SARE) – Learn at your own pace Vineyard Team – Become a Member Get More Subscribe wherever you listen so you never miss an episode on the latest science and research with the Sustainable Winegrowing Podcast. Since 1994, Vineyard Team has been your resource for workshops and field demonstrations, research, and events dedicated to the stewardship of our natural resources. Learn more at www.vineyardteam.org.   Transcript [00:00:00] Beth Vukmanic: What causes. The red wine headache? Is it sulfites or a histamine reaction? [00:00:10] Welcome to sustainable wine growing with the vineyard team. Where we bring you the latest in science and research for the wine industry. I'm Beth Vukmanic executive director. I've been your team. Since 1994, we've brought you the latest science-based practices, experts growers and wine industry tools through both infield and online education. So that you can grow your business. Please raise a glass. With us as we cheers to 30 years. [00:00:37] In today's podcast, Craig Macmillan, critical resource. Manager at Niner wine estates with long time sip certified. Vineyard and the first ever sip certified winery. Speaks with two university of California Davis researchers. Andrew Waterhouse. Professor emeritus of enology and the department. of, viticulture and enology. And. Oprah meta Debbie. Post-doctoral scholar and the department of viticulture and enology. [00:01:04] They have identified a flavonol that can interfere. With the metabolism of alcohol. And that flavonol is called quercetin. A natural product made in the grape skins in response. To sunlight. It's a natural sunscreen produced to protect. The fruit from ultraviolet light. This conversation covers. Why quercetin may be more prevalent in high end wines. How. Skin contact during wine production impacts quercetin levels. And why sulfites may still play a role in that red wine headache. [00:01:36] Want to be more connected with the viticulture industry. But don't know where to start become a vineyard team member. Get access. to the latest science-based practices, experts, growers, and wine industry. The tools. Through both infield and online education so that you. You can grow your business. Visit vineyard team.org. And choose grower or business to join the community today. [00:01:57] Now let's listen. in. [00:02:01] Craig Macmillan: Our guests today are Andrew Waterhouse, Professor Emeritus in Enology in the Department of Viticulture Davis, and also Aparmita Devi. She is a postdoctoral scholar, also in the Department of Viticulture & Enology Davis. Thank you both for being here. [00:02:17] Andrew Waterhouse: Oh, we're glad to be here. [00:02:19] Craig Macmillan: Today we're going to talk about a really interesting topic. It's the role of quercetin , in wine headaches. The two of you recently co authored a paper on this one particular mechanism that might cause some people to get a headache after drinking even a small amount of red wine. But before we get into that, I want to ask you, how did you get interested in this topic? [00:02:37] Andrew Waterhouse: Well I've been talking to Steve Mathiasson. He's a Napa winemaker for actually quite a while, some years back. He suffers from headaches when he drinks certain wines. And we were chatting about possible mechanisms, and we even did a study many years ago with another postdoc in my lab to investigate a question we had or a theory we had, and that didn't pan out. But more recently we were chatting again, and I got interested in the topic again, and that's what got me interested, you know, just somebody knowledgeable who was suffering from headaches and. for listening. It was, it makes it more real and it's like, well, maybe we can figure something out. So that's what got us started. [00:03:17] Craig Macmillan: Apramita , how same for you. [00:03:19] Apramita Devi: Yeah. Same. Like I've been in touch with Andy and we have been talking about this project many years. So I was always interested because I come from biological science and metabolism and stuff I got interested after talking to Andy. [00:03:33] Craig Macmillan: Well, let's start with some basics. What is quercetin? [00:03:38] Andrew Waterhouse: Well, basically, it's a natural product made by grapes, but it's a very specific one. It's in the class of polyphenolic compounds, and it's in the class of flavonoids called flavonols. And what makes it interesting, I think, is that it is made By grapes, in the skin of the grape, and only in the skin of the grape, in response to sunlight. It's sometimes referred to as sunscreen for grapes. And it specifically absorbs UV light that would cause damage to, say, DNA and other macromolecules. So it's very clear that the grapes are producing this in order to protect themselves from ultraviolet light. [00:04:22] Craig Macmillan: Right. [00:04:22] Andrew Waterhouse: So the amount that's present in wine is highly dependent on the amount of sunlight the grapes experience. Not the vine, but the grapes themselves, And a friend of mine, Steve Price, was the first to note this. In a study way back in the 90s on Pinot Noir, he noted that there was more quercetin in sun exposed Pinot Noir grapes. And that observation has been confirmed many times now in different studies. where sun exposure is correlated with quercetin levels. [00:04:58] Craig Macmillan: and this is true just for red grapes as opposed to white grapes. [00:05:02] Andrew Waterhouse: Oh, no, no, there's more in white grapes. But when you make white wine, you throw away the skins. So there's no opportunity to get those materials into the wine. Now, an exception might be orange wine. But I don't know of any data on orange wine. [00:05:21] Craig Macmillan: Apramita , maybe you can talk about the metabolism part, the biology part. So when people consume alcohol, it's metabolized down certain pathways. Quercetin is also metabolized by the body into other forms? [00:05:33] Apramita Devi: Yeah, so the pathway for alcohol and quercetin are a bit different, but the location is liver, where it goes. So when people consume alcohol, it goes to the liver and then there are two enzymes which work on the alcohol. So the first enzyme is alcohol dehydrogenase, which convert it into alcohol into acetaldehyde. The acetaldehyde is the like the toxic metabolite in the body and it can have many side effects. That's why body has to get rid of it out of the liver system. So it has a second enzyme which is called the acetaldehyde dehydrogenase. So that convert acetaldehyde dehydrogenase into a non toxic component, which is acetate or acetic system. [00:06:24] So it comes out of the body. What happens when you consume quercetin along in the body, the quercetin also goes to the liver. Because quercetin adds too much quercetin as such is not good for the body and it has low bioavailability. So liver tag it in the form of quercetin glucuronide and then the body knows that it has to be flushed out of the system. So the interesting part is that when you consume alcohol and quercetin together, You are taking the both the metabolite acetaldehyde and quercetin gluconide in the same location inside the liver. And it gives the quercetin gluconide to interact with the acetaldehyde dehydrogenase enzyme. And that acetaldehyde dehydrogenase enzyme now cannot work efficiently. to convert the acetaldehyde into the acetate. So basically you are building up acetaldehyde in the body and it's not coming out of the system and you are seeing all those negative effects of the acetaldehyde in the form of flushing or headache or not. The other systems like what's like sweating. so we think that there is a correlation between these two pathways, which might be associated in red wine system. [00:07:47] Craig Macmillan: And how did you design your study? [00:07:51] Apramita Devi: The first when I talked to Andy, like he told me that he thinks that this system is because of inflammatory pathways and inflammation system. So he was kind of like, there is something in red wine, which is Triggering this kind of pathways or there is some system so, but we were not sure what exactly are those inflammatory system. [00:08:16] So we went back and saw some literature and we kind of find that there are some studies which told that quercitans inhibit the dehydrogenase enzymes and that what triggered us that okay alcohol is metabolized by these dehydrogenase enzymes. And wine also has these phenolics. So what kind of phenolics, other kinds of phenolics, or what types of phenolics can do this inhibition? [00:08:45] The method was basically in, was based on having different phenolics, which are present in red wines more compared to white wines, select them. And then just, we find this enzyme kits in the market to do this dehydrogenase. Inhibition tests like you put the test compound and it tells whether the enzyme is the inhibited or not. [00:09:09] So we just did that in a test tube system, like we added our phenolics with the enzyme, and we saw that which kind of phenolics are inhibiting this enzyme and screening them out. out of all. So while doing that, we screened different types of quercetin, like quercetin glucoside, quercetin galactosides, and other forms. [00:09:32] Then we also tested other phenolics. I can for all my rest in and other stuff. And we also choose quercetin gluconide because that is the metabolite which is circulating in the body. And then we kind of screen them based on the in the enzyme system and we see how much inhibition is happening there. [00:09:54] Andrew Waterhouse: Yeah. So what we did was a very basic test to experiment. We didn't test anything on people. [00:10:01] We basically tested to see which of these compounds could inhibit that enzyme because we knew that if that an enzyme could be inhibited the acetaldehyde would accumulate and you'd end up with people in that condition would end up with Flushing, headaches, as Aparmita said, all kinds of other symptoms. [00:10:20] Craig Macmillan: And this would vary by person. Different people may have a proclivity to produce more of certain enzymes than others. Is that true? [00:10:29] Andrew Waterhouse: We don't really have any information about that. That's going to take a lot of more work to test you know, the, the details here. For instance. Some people get red wine headaches and some don't, but we don't know whether, for instance, perhaps their enzymes are more inhibited by quercetin glucuronide, or maybe they're just more sensitive to acetaldehyde. [00:10:52] So that's going to take, you know, human studies where we measure a bunch of things. And try to figure out, try to sort through the, the details of how this impacts people individually. [00:11:04] Craig Macmillan: What would a study , with people, investigating this, what would the design be like? How would somebody go about doing that? [00:11:12] Andrew Waterhouse: Okay. So a human study. Could have a couple different possible designs. The one we'll probably use is we'll simply find two wines, two red wines, one that's low in quercetin and one that's high. And then those will be administered to people who get red wine headaches. We'll give it to them blind, they'll have to agree of course to participate in the study. [00:11:37] And then we'll see if their experience of headaches is related to the quantity of quercetin. Now, there's some other designs we could imagine using, which might be a little more straightforward, but we're not sure how relevant they would be or whether we could get approval to do this. So, for instance, one approach would be to find a red wine that's low in quercetin and then simply add it. [00:12:00] Now adding it is tricky for a number of technical reasons. Quercetin itself is very insoluble, so we would have to add what's called a glycoside of quercetin. So we'd have to get our hands on something that would dissolve, et cetera, et cetera. We're not sure we could get approval for that because we're adding a chemical to wine. [00:12:21] Now, the chemical would probably be classified as a supplement, and so it might be approvable, as it were. And then another very simple experiment, which we thought about a while ago, you can buy quercetin as a supplement in the market. It's readily available. [00:12:38] So, one possibility is to simply give our subjects a glass of vodka and give them pills that either contain quercetin or a placebo and see if there's a relationship between administration of quercetin and headaches. [00:12:54] Now the, the quercetin itself, as I mentioned, is very insoluble. So we may have to get these more bioavailable forms of quercetin for that experiment. [00:13:04] Craig Macmillan: That leads to a wine making question. So, if it's relatively insoluble is quercetin extracted from skins more in the alcohol phase at the end of fermentation? [00:13:11] Andrew Waterhouse: Yeah. It's, it's, it's extracted fairly quickly because it's in the skin, in the grapes, it's in the form of what are called glycosides. So these, Has the quercetin molecule with the sugar attached. That makes all those forms very soluble. [00:13:27] Craig Macmillan: Oh, okay. Okay. [00:13:29] Andrew Waterhouse: There's actually an occasional problem with certain red wines, most commonly Sangiovese, where after bottling the wine has had a large quantity of quercetin glucosides. And after bottling, they break down, the glycosides break down, releasing just a simple a glycone, quercetin, and you get this disgusting looking gooey brown precipitate in the bottle. [00:13:56] Craig Macmillan: ha [00:13:57] Andrew Waterhouse: Every few years I know the folks at ETS in Napa get somebody showing up with a bottle of Sangiovese that's got this. Disgusting sludge in it, and they can tell them without analyzing that. Yes, another case, of course, it's in precipitate in the bottom. [00:14:15] Craig Macmillan: Huh, that's interesting. I believe it was mentioned in the paper that , obviously different growing conditions are going to lead to different levels of quercetin and grapes based on how much sun exposure they have, etc. And that also different winemaking techniques would have an impact. [00:14:29] If consumers are looking for products if they know they have a headache issue Is it possible they could experiment with different product types? Products that were made with different production methods if they can find that out that might Impact their sensitivity or might impact how often it happens [00:14:46] Andrew Waterhouse: Yeah, it's a pity that. Consumers wouldn't have information on the level of quercetin. We would very much like to do a study along those lines, but we haven't been able to find any funding for that, just in case somebody wants to support that kind of work, we're happy to work with them. but anyway you know, it hasn't really been an issue for winemakers, so there isn't a lot of data out there. [00:15:08] There are a few studies that published amounts of quercetin, you know, in wines from different places, but the data is very, very limited and not really useful in providing consumers guidance. The one thing we can say is because, as I mentioned earlier, sun exposure is very important, in general if you look at a particular type of wine, a varietal, say Cabernet or Pinot Noir, that the grapes that are grown on very large vines, will have less sun exposure. [00:15:39] Essentially if you have a very highly productive vineyard making targeting an inexpensive line, you probably have much more shading of the fruit as a consequence of lower quercetin levels. Compared to a very high end vineyard, usually, the amount of sunlight is very tightly controlled, and one of the reasons for that is that there's very good data showing that wines that are high in quercetin have a better mouthfeel, better texture in the mouth. And it's not clear whether quercetin is directly responsible or whether it's a marker for something else that's produced under those conditions that leads to that. many years ago, we did a study looking at phenolics in Cabernet, and we observed that the very high end Cabernets that we tested were much higher in quercetin than the sort of average price type product. [00:16:35] And I think that that was true then. It's probably true now that, you know, a very good cabernet is, is made with very tight control of sun exposure. And there is a fair amount, of course, it can't be a complete sun exposure, or they probably get raisins by the end of the harvest, by the time you get to harvest, but there's a very deliberate management of sun exposure in high end wines. And it's for a reason to, get to higher quality product. [00:17:04] Craig Macmillan: Right, exactly! And, We know that the managed sun exposure, quercetin is a part of it but also it's connected to just total phenolics in general. Lots and lots of different compounds that are, you know, semi related. And I actually wanted to go back Aprametia you identified the quercetin glucuronide as being The highest in the ones that you tested, were there other things in that test and that assay that all were also stood out, maybe not as high as that, but really kind of stuck out as being different than the rest. [00:17:39] Apramita Devi: Actually, the quercetin gluconide was a standalone as a very high, like it's like 78%. The other things were around in that 30 percent range, so I'm not sure how significant was the impact of that, but there were quercetin glycosides forms, which were like around 30 percent inhibition of the enzyme, but [00:18:03] all others were very low. [00:18:04] Craig Macmillan: yeah, so it really stood out basically as it was head and shoulders above it. I would like to put this work into context a little bit. I, I work with the public quite a bit as part of my job and I have for years. And this topic comes up. All the time. This information definitely helps me my goal, when I talk to a consumer that has an issue with, wine headache or whatever it's not that I'm trying to sell them a product as much as it is. [00:18:29] They want to enjoy wine. They tell me this, they say, Oh, I love to have it. I just can't. Da da da. And then they'll say, it's like sulfites. And then I'll kind of explore that with them a little bit. Like, so can you eat dried fruit? Do you eat canned fruit? Do you have reactions to this or to that? Are you asthmatic? [00:18:48] Kind of sort that out and go, okay, I don't think maybe that's it. Maybe it's not. The other ones that I just learned about about 10 years ago was a biogenic amines, which made a lot of sense to me in terms of things like histamine reactions. What is your feeling about sulfites is contributing biogenic amines. [00:19:04] Maybe there's other things we haven't hit on, on this topic. What are your feelings about the, kind of the big picture of what potential for a diagnosing assist? [00:19:15] Andrew Waterhouse: Why don't you talk about amines [00:19:16] Craig Macmillan: Yes, please, [00:19:18] Apramita Devi: Biogenic amines like mostly the histamine and tyramine are the main ones people talk about whenever they come with this headache stuff. So I think because it's formed in the wine during the fermentation process, and there are these spec microbes which can convert the amino acids into this, biogenic amines the histamines are part of inflammatory reactions. People know that in biology and immunology. So it's very easy to be people connected that it might be a reason why people get headache. But what I always focus is like, there are far more other food products, for example, fermented meat products, which has far more higher amount of these biogenic amines. do people get headache if they have something similar with alcohol eating together with alcohol or something like that? But there is no mechanism told till now, they just tell that, oh, since it's histamine and it's related to this inflammatory reactions, it might be the cause. But there is no solid proof that it is the cause. [00:20:27] so I don't know whether it's there or it might be a pathway or not. [00:20:33] Craig Macmillan: One of the things that I find fascinating is how we evolve our, Hypotheses about things over time, and somebody has an hypothesis and they test it out, maybe they find something, maybe they don't, but then that kicks off this whole set of what I call naive science making up stories about why. [00:20:53] It's kind of a just so story. It's like, well, obviously then somebody comes along and checks it and says, Hey, wait a second. And we're no, or if this was true, then that would have to be true. And that's not true. You know, and that kind of thing and how we keep coming around to new ideas, which is what you folks have done, which I think is really, really cool. [00:21:10] Andrew Waterhouse: I was going to answer your question about sulfites. It's a really big question actually. Partly because sulfites have so much visibility and there's so much concern about it. I think sulfites themselves Have been studied pretty carefully there's one study where if they gave subjects a very high level of sulfites in wine, it was like very small, but statistically significant increase in headaches. [00:21:39] Or some adverse reaction, but other studies have shown no correlation. By the way, sulfites are antioxidants in case you hadn't heard that. So it seems very unlikely that sulfites by themselves are some sort of bad actor in this regard. Like you, I get these questions all the time. And what I heard so many times was. Oh, it's cheap wine. It gives me a headache. [00:22:06] Craig Macmillan: Yes. [00:22:07] Andrew Waterhouse: And have you heard [00:22:08] Craig Macmillan: I've heard that many times. And then on the opposite side of things, I've heard stuff like, Oh, I get headaches from American wine, but I don't get it from French wine. Or I always get headaches from European wines, but I never from California wine. So I'm trying to figure out, is there something going on? [00:22:26] Like, can you be allergic to burgundy? You know what I'm saying? Cause I mean, it could be, it could be something about burgundy. It's just stuff going on. And then the opposite. I had a guy who says, no, I don't have any that. But he says I was traveling in France, and we were drinking wine like it was water, and I never had a hangover symptom, and I did it, and I was like, I don't know dude, like I [00:22:45] Andrew Waterhouse: Yeah. Well, there's, there's one answer to some of this, which is if you're on vacation and you don't have to get up early and you're relaxed and you probably don't get as many headaches. [00:22:58] Craig Macmillan: Right. [00:22:59] Andrew Waterhouse: So I think that's a large part of it, especially for Americans visiting Europe. They're on vacation. but I think there is something to the sulfites question. And that is that inexpensive wine often, not always, but often has more bound sulfites. [00:23:18] Craig Macmillan: Yep. [00:23:19] Andrew Waterhouse: And this is probably because those grapes have a little bit more mold on them or a lot more mold. And when they get to the crusher, the winemaker goes, Oh, there's mold on these fruits. So we're going to add sulfites to, to take care of the botrytis, right? [00:23:34] We don't want the fruit to get oxidized and damaged. They had a bunch of sulfites. The consequence of that is that in the finished line, There's a lot more. Bound to SO2, which shows up in the total SO2 number. [00:23:47] You know what it's bound to? [00:23:49] Craig Macmillan: No. [00:23:49] Andrew Waterhouse: It's bound to largely acid aldehyde. [00:23:52] Craig Macmillan: Really? [00:23:53] Oh! Well that would make sense. Yeah, that would make sense. [00:23:56] Andrew Waterhouse: And the, the reason for that is that during the fermentation, the yeast are converting all this sugar the alcohol, but there's an intermediate step which is acetaldehyde. [00:24:06] Craig Macmillan: Right. [00:24:07] Andrew Waterhouse: If you have SO2 floating around, as you would if you'd added a lot of it up front, it binds that acetaldehyde before it gets reduced to ethanol, to alcohol. if you start a fermentation with a high level of added SO2, then you will end up with a wine that has more bound acetaldehyde. And that could be a marker, say, of less expensive wine. [00:24:31] So it's possible that those people are, what they're experiencing is direct ingestion of acetaldehyde, which is being released into the blood and that that's causing them a problem. [00:24:45] Now, I've looked and looked, and I cannot find any data on what's called absorption of acetaldehyde from wine, or from food for that matter. I keep, I'm going to keep looking, [00:24:56] but for some reason or other, this hasn't been subject of a published study, although maybe I just haven't been competent enough to find it. [00:25:05] Craig Macmillan: I doubt that. [00:25:07] Andrew Waterhouse: Well, sometimes these are, you know, they're very specialized and they're indexed in funny ways. And, [00:25:13] You know, and the other thing was, you know, when the study came out, I had all these questions. I was talking to this one reporter and she said, well, I can drink natural wine. [00:25:24] It doesn't give me headaches. And I was like, oh boy, what's this about? [00:25:27] Craig Macmillan: Yeah. [00:25:28] Andrew Waterhouse: But thinking about that further when you make natural wine, you don't add any sulfites or at least you're not supposed to, Right. And consequently in the finished wine, the level of acetaldehyde would have to be very low or else it would smell like sherry. [00:25:41] Craig Macmillan: Right. Right. [00:25:43] Andrew Waterhouse: And yes, granted, many natural wines have funky smells, but they don't by and large smell like sherry. [00:25:49] So it's possible that natural wines have in general, Much less acid aldehyde than conventional one. you know, all these questions have brought up some interesting issues, I think, you know, the industry should be looking into you know, these are these issues like how much acid aldehyde Do we want in our wine and how can we reduce it if we want to reduce it? [00:26:15] I don't think anybody's really looking at that yet. I think that would be a very interesting question to pursue. Oh [00:26:24] Craig Macmillan: you just, you just reminded me of, of something two things that I, I had forgotten about. One I used to teach like enology for babies, enology for dummies thing for the public. I am in no way qualified other than just experience to do that. [00:26:39] But I broke it down in that I do that sugar aldehyde, alcohol arrows, and I'd say, okay, this, this acid aldehyde. Remember this one? This one's coming back. We're going to see this again later. So write this one down. We're going to get to that later. And sure enough, now it's just through the body and, and I think breathalyzers work based on that. [00:27:00] Don't they? It's like density. Something like that. So the aldehyde, they're actually, [00:27:05] I think so. I got to look that up again, but because by the time it gets to your breath, your body's, Processing it, right? Hugely important. Not just that compound, but aldehyde is just kind of a general well, maybe we should all invest in like some kind of, I don't know, AO unit or wine X ray or something at our house. [00:27:21] And then we could get the totals and know before we drink it you know, maybe we could figure out if somebody could come up with a consumer friendly, you know, put it in a vial and shake it and it turns blue. Don't drink it kind of thing. I'm just being silly. I don't know. [00:27:34] Andrew Waterhouse: idea. [00:27:35] Craig Macmillan: You go to different like wine shops and stuff, and there's all kinds of stirs and additives and strainers and funnels and stuff that are supposed to take things out. [00:27:45] And I've always really wanted to see what those things do. They do anything or not, or I don't know. I'd like to try it. Finally, is there one takeaway on this topic, this question to both you, one takeaway you'd like people to know, I [00:27:57] Andrew Waterhouse: well, I think the key thing is that we haven't done any experiments on people yet. [00:28:03] Craig Macmillan: Right. [00:28:04] Andrew Waterhouse: And so what we have here is, I would call it a well founded theory, [00:28:09] Craig Macmillan: Mhmm. [00:28:09] Andrew Waterhouse: I think people shouldn't rush out and start changing the way they drink yet. They might want to try some experiments. But we don't have the final word yet. [00:28:20] Craig Macmillan: Right, right. [00:28:24] Apramita Devi: Same. Yeah. This is just very preliminary study. And we just have a theory out. So we still don't know, like, what happens in the actual body. [00:28:34] Craig Macmillan: Well, I hope that we can do that. [00:28:36] Andrew Waterhouse: We're always looking for support for experiments. If anybody wants to support that, get in touch. [00:28:43] Craig Macmillan: You know, another creative thought that I have when I'm preparing for this is like, you know, , people either get headaches from wine or they don't. If I'm someone who wants to enjoy wine, but gets headaches, I would be really attracted to a product that had a back label if we could make health. statements, which we cannot, that would say now low in quercetin or, you know, headache free, you know, no, we would never get that through TTP, obviously, but but, but, you know, but we went round and round with that on sulfites, you know you know, organic waste, no added sulfites, you know, you can say that. [00:29:14] Andrew Waterhouse: I think it would be possible to perhaps have a declaration on a bottle about the level of quercetin, whether it's high or low. I suppose. I don't know. [00:29:24] One company did get a label through that had resveratrol levels on it, but then TTB stopped approving that. So only one company has that approval. But I think in that case the reason for denying the label is that it is a proxy for health claim. Thank you. [00:29:44] Quercetin, you know, whether it's high or low is really, it's not, it's not making a health claim. We're not claiming that this wine is healthier for you than the other has to do with headaches or not headaches. [00:29:55] And I don't see that as really a health claim. [00:29:58] Craig Macmillan: Well, let's just see how this develops. You never know. Let's face it. I mean, we're talking about nutrition. This is August of 2024, the date for this recording. We're talking about having nutritional labeling on wine. Right? Which I think would be a very interesting nutritional label, quite frankly. [00:30:13] I would, I would love to see that, you know. Zero percent of the RDA of everything, again, at the end of one of my lectures I'd introduce potassium, and at the end I'd say, so how much wine do you have to drink to get your RDA of potassium? You have to drink a gallon and a half of wine a day. So, maybe not a big contributor. Maybe not a big contributor. Where can people find out more about both of you? [00:30:37] Andrew Waterhouse: Well, I think probably the best starting point would be our LinkedIn pages. [00:30:43] Craig Macmillan: And those will be in the show notes. [00:30:45] Andrew Waterhouse: and I do have a website at UC Davis called waterhouse. ucdavis. edu. [00:30:52] Craig Macmillan: And that will be in there as well. What about you, Apremita? [00:30:54] Apramita Devi: For me, LinkedIn page. [00:30:58] And if people want to see about my research or my past research, they can go to my Google Scholar page to [00:31:05] Craig Macmillan: Awesome. Thank you. Well, thanks so much for being here. Our guests today were Andrew Waterhouse, Professor Emeritus in the Department of Viticulture and Enology at UC Davis, and Apramita Devi, a postdoctoral researcher in viticulture and knowledge at UC Davis. Really interesting work. [00:31:21] I'm glad that you folks are doing it. I've been a big fan of you, Dr. Waterhouse, for a long time, and now that I've seen your work, I'm a big fan of you. Apremita. You've done some pretty cool stuff in the last five years. So again, thanks. And thank you for listening to Sustainable Wine Growing with Vineyard team. [00:31:38] Please keep downloading episodes. Please visit the show page. Lots of information there. And we also have a new publication, Understanding Wine Chemistry by Andrew Waterhouse, Gavin Sachs, and David Jeffrey. Is that correct? [00:31:53] Andrew Waterhouse: That's correct. [00:31:55] Craig Macmillan: This is out in the world now. [00:31:57] Andrew Waterhouse: It's just out this month. [00:31:59] Craig Macmillan: That sounds like a must have. [00:32:01] Andrew Waterhouse: I agree. [00:32:03] Craig Macmillan: That sounds like a must have. , I will leave the name out, but there was a very famous book written by a group of folks from CSU Fresno and some collaborators. And I don't have a copy because I bought five copies in my cellar. People stole them every single time. So, this is the same kind of book, folks. [00:32:20] Maybe buy five copies. And just hand them out to give one to your assistant winemaker. Give one to your cellar master and just say, here, these are yours. I'm keeping my copy. Thank you very much. That's, that's really cool. And again, thanks for being on the podcast. [00:32:33] Beth Vukmanic: Thank you for listening today's podcast was brought to you by wonderful laboratories. Wonderful laboratories operates two state of the art high throughput laboratories. He's located in Shaffer, California to support pathogen detection and nutrient analysis. The team provides full service support to customers with field sampling. Custom panels and special projects. They're. Customers include pest control advisors, growers, consultants, seed. Companies, backyard gardeners, ranchers, and more. [00:33:10] Make sure you check out the show notes. To learn more about. Andrew. And Oprah meta. To read a great article about their research. Why do some people get headaches from drinking red wine? [00:33:19] And if you're looking. Looking for. Some more fun wine at trivia to share at holiday parties this season. Listen into sustainable Winegrowing podcast episode. 74, the spirit of wine. [00:33:31] If you liked the show, do. It's a big favor by sharing it with a friend subscribing and leaving us a review. You can find all of the podcasts@vineyardteam.org slash podcast. Podcast. And you can reach us at podcast@vineyardteam.org until next time, this is sustainable. Winegrowing with the vineyard team. [00:33:49]   Nearly perfect transcription by Descript

I wasn't sure I was going to do a Thanksgiving episode this year, but last minute, I felt inspired (and was encouraged by some of you -- thanks especially to my dear friends and your fellow patrons Claudette C and Tina K) so I decided to make it happen.   This one is short, sweet, and to the point! I offer seven main wine types and give examples of each. I hope at least one of these ideas will work for your table! __________________________________ This year, I'm sticking with the theme I did for the Wine Access Club and recommending blends for your meal. The list: Photo: Getty Images via Canva 1. Sparkling -- whether you pick Champagne, Crémant, Cava, Cap Classique, Franciacorta, American sparkling wine, or anything else, you will likely have a mix of grapes. A great blend for the whole meal.     2. Acidic white blends are fantastic pairings. White Bordeaux blends are my top choice.     3. Full, white Rhône blends, especially with a big Viognier component are always on my Thanksgiving table. Blends like Côtes du Rhône blanc, Châteauneuf du Pape blanc, Laudun, Lirac, and Rhône blends from California and Australia work well.     4. Fruity red blends have softer tannins but good acidity. Côtes du Rhône, Châteauneuf du Pape, and Valpolicella are some examples     5. Flavorful red blends with a fuller body are a fantastic alternative to varietal Cabernet or Zinfandel, which are often recommended. Rioja, Bordeaux (with more Merlot than Cabernet), and Cerasuolo di Vittoria are my suggested blends.   6. Rosés like Tavel, Bandol rosé, Côtes du Rhône rosé, and heavier styles of Rioja rosado.     7. Finally, SAUTERNES is great with grilled food or anything with a char. It can also handle the sweet foods on your table, including dessert.     I hope you this was helpful and gave you a new idea or two! Happy Thanksgiving -- I'm grateful to you for listening!   Full show notes and all back episodes are on Patreon. Become a member today! www.patreon.com/winefornormalpeople _______________________________________________________________   Check out my exclusive sponsor, Wine Access.  They have an amazing selection -- once you get hooked on their wines, they will be your go-to! Make sure you join the Wine Access-Wine For Normal People wine club for wines I select delivered to you four times a year!    To register for an AWESOME, LIVE WFNP class with Elizabeth or get a class gift certificate for the wine lover in your life go to: www.winefornormalpeople.com/classes    

My guest for this episode grows and makes wine on one of the most popular island vacation spots in the Mediterranean Sea: Mallorca. His name is Tomeu Llabrés, and his winery is C'an Verdura. You might be surprised to find out how much of an impact Mallorca has had on the world. You might be less surprised to find that the local, indigenous varieties of grapes that Tomeu works with out-perform on several measures the Cabernet and other “trendy” grapes that were brought to Mallorca just a few decades ago to cater to tourists. We'll get to know the Mallorcan grapes better, and find some solutions to making cool wines in a hotter world. https://vinscanverdura.com/ You Can Support this podcast by subscribing via patreon. Or by donating or taking action at: Beyond Organic Wine

Trader Joe's has been a destination for winning wine finds since our earliest days, and more than 57 years into our journey, our stores remain a source of tremendous values on wines from the world's best growing regions. In this episode of Inside Trader Joe's, we sit down with four folks from our wine team who are doing the work, day after day, to find those wines and get them to our shelves. Grenache? Great. Champagne? ‘Course! Cabernet? Rosé? Okay, okay! Have a listen, then take a trip to your neighborhood Trader Joe's wine section, where a Crew Member can help you find just the right bottle for any occasion. Transcript (PDF)

Bedrock Wine Company In this episode, Rob and Scott enjoy a scarce, but excellent Sonoma County Cabernet  by Bedrock Wine Company.  So come join us, on The Wine Vault.

I haven't done an overview show on Chile in more than a decade so this show is an update on the unbelievable wines of Chile -- I cover new regions, new viticulture and styles, and all the wonderful things this South American gem has to offer. If you haven't had Chilean wine in a while, it's time to take another look. Especially in the last decade, the wines and vines have matured and the diversity, quality, and breadth of what this country has to offer has improved by leaps and bounds. In the show cover: A history of Chilean wine Climate and the east-to-west climate zones Grapes and new viticultural techniques The DO system Regions and Subregions Atacama: Huasco Coquimbo: Elqui, Limarí, Choapa Aconcagua with the Costa areas of Casablanca and San Antonio (with sub region Leyda) Valle Central: Maipo, Rapel (with sub regions Cachapoal and Colchagua), Curicó, Maule Sur: Itata, Bio Bio, Malleco Austral region After the whirlwind wine grand tour of the country, I discuss a few reasons why Chilean wine should absolutely be on our radars and in our cellars (and it's not just for value!). Full show notes and all back episodes are on Patreon. Become a member today! www.patreon.com/winefornormalpeople _______________________________________________________________   Check out my exclusive sponsor, Wine Access.  They have an amazing selection -- once you get hooked on their wines, they will be your go-to! Make sure you join the Wine Access-Wine For Normal People wine club for wines I select delivered to you four times a year!    To register for an AWESOME, LIVE WFNP class with Elizabeth or get a class gift certificate for the wine lover in your life go to: www.winefornormalpeople.com/classes      

The Cabernet Sauvignon refresh was episode 535, so I thought that on the heels of that it was time to do a refresh Cab Sauv's parents. This week is the Cabernet Franc refresh and next week will be Sauvignon Blanc, so you can have the full picture of the parents and the offspring.  Cabernet Franc is an underrated grape and things seem to be changing rapidly with it these days. In the past, it has often been used purely as a blending grape, except in the Loire Valley, but today it's taking center stage. Producers and wine drinkers have realized that if the best wines of Château Cheval Blanc on the Right Bank of Bordeaux, have a higher proportion of Cabernet Franc, maybe there is something to this grape that should be explored.    Although Cab Franc still doesn't have widespread popular acclaim, it is extremely important in the wine world. Today –it  grows everywhere from France, Italy, the United States, Chile, Argentina, Canada, Hungary, Washington State, Croatia, Israel, South Africa, Turkey, Slovenia, Uruguay, and more. Plantings are growing and I see a bigger future for this grape.    In this show I cover: The origins and DNA of the grape Cab Franc in the vineyard Aromas and flavors Regions: France: Loire, Bordeaux, Southwest France Italy: Veneto, Friuli Venezia Giulia, Bolgheri Hungary: Villány Canada United States: Finger Lakes, Long Island, Virginia, and a little bit on Napa, Sonoma, and Washington South America: Argentina, Chile I cover food pairings and serving temperatures too.     Full show notes and all back episodes are on Patreon. Become a member today! www.patreon.com/winefornormalpeople _______________________________________________________________   Check out my exclusive sponsor, Wine Access.  They have an amazing selection -- once you get hooked on their wines, they will be your go-to! Make sure you join the Wine Access-Wine For Normal People wine club for wines I select delivered to you four times a year!    To register for an AWESOME, LIVE WFNP class with Elizabeth or get a class gift certificate for the wine lover in your life go to: www.winefornormalpeople.com/classes      

We interview the iconic Real Housewives of New York star LuAnn De Lesseps. LuAnn updates us on what she's been up to, talks tour, new reality show, RHONY reboot and even comments on her opinion of RHOC this season including her thoughts on if Shannon should be drinking on TV following what she's gone through As you know - we are doing our best to get our Instagram account, #AllAboutTRH back but in the mean time please support us by following @AllAboutTRHpodcast & @AllAboutTRH_ Be sure to join us and support us on AllAboutTRH Patreon Follow us on Instagram @AllAboutTRHpodcast Check out AllAboutTRH.com for everything Real Housewives and Bravo TV Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Cabernet Sauvignon is the most planted wine grape in the world. Loved by winemakers and wine drinkers alike, this grape has the potential to make wines with excellent fruit, power, complexity, and structure with outstanding aging ability. In this show, I do a refresh of a show I did 11 years ago (!), discussing Cabernet in all its glory – from the history, to the vineyard, to the winemaking and regions, it's a deep dive into this beloved grape. In this show I review: The (relatively recent) history of Cabernet How the grape acts in the vineyard and what growers need to do to get great grapes Winemaking and what Cabernet requires in the cellar The grape's flavors, depending on where it's grown and how it has been made The main regions where the grape is grown and the differences between the wines from the major areas   I wrap up with food pairing ideas and a promise not to wait another 11 years to take a look at Cab in depth again!   Full show notes and all back episodes are on Patreon. Become a member today! www.patreon.com/winefornormalpeople _______________________________________________________________   Check out my exclusive sponsor, Wine Access.  They have an amazing selection -- once you get hooked on their wines, they will be your go-to! Make sure you join the Wine Access-Wine For Normal People wine club for wines I select delivered to you four times a year!    To register for an AWESOME, LIVE WFNP class with Elizabeth or get a class gift certificate for the wine lover in your life go to: www.winefornormalpeople.com/classes