Podcasts about East Boston

As the world continues to grapple with pressing global issues, today's top stories are a stark reminder of the complexities and challenges we face. From the devastating effects of disease outbreaks to the resilience of communities in the face of disaster, it's clear that there's no shortage of important news to discuss.This episode covers a range of topics, including a global health emergency declared by the World Health Association due to a concerning outbreak in Congo. The region is bracing for a potential larger outbreak, and the situation is being closely monitored. In other news, a fire in East Boston left over twenty people displaced, with one firefighter injured. The Calves are also making headlines after securing a spot in the Eastern Common Difference finals.The episode touches on various other stories, including a sports update, entertainment news, and a notable commencement speech by Tom Brady. The movie "Michael" has reclaimed the top spot at the box office, and Harry Styles' world tour is making waves. With so much happening in the world, it's essential to stay informed and up-to-date.Tune in to this episode to hear the latest on these and other stories, and get a deeper understanding of the issues affecting our world.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

In this episode of Gangland Wire, retired Kansas City Police Intelligence Unit detective Gary Jenkins interviews Eddie Inserra about the Boston Mafia. He is the author of Confidence of the Mob: The IRS Agent Who Took down the Mob – Then Advised Them, a deeply researched account of his grandfather, Fred G. Pastore, a key figure in early IRS efforts to dismantle organized crime. Fred Pastore was part of the IRS's early “racket squad,” targeting Boston Mafia enterprises. His work paralleled the groundbreaking financial investigations that helped bring down figures like Al Capone, demonstrating how financial crimes could succeed where traditional policing struggled. Then, he leaves the IRS and advises the Boston Mafia. Eddie recounts how he uncovered his grandfather's story through a remarkable archive of family documents, photos, and recordings. These materials revealed a complicated dual life: Fred was both a relentless investigator and, later, a trusted confidant to certain Boston Mafia figures. This paradox sits at the center of the book and this conversation. A major focus of the discussion is the “pinball racket”—a widespread illegal gambling operation hidden in plain sight within bars and storefronts. Fred's investigations exposed how these machines generated significant underground revenue streams for organized crime, particularly in Boston. Eddie details the innovative and often risky techniques the IRS used to infiltrate these operations, including undercover work within corporations like Raytheon, where illegal gambling rings had taken root among employees. The episode also explores the institutional challenges Fred faced. His aggressive tactics and unconventional relationships eventually brought him into conflict with IRS leadership and political figures, forcing his resignation. In a striking turn, Fred leveraged his deep knowledge of organized crime to advise former mob associates—highlighting the blurred moral boundaries that often exist in this world.   Eddie adds a personal dimension, sharing memories of growing up around his grandfather and describing the cultural landscape of Boston's North End, where family, community, and organized crime often intersected. These stories provide insight into how relationships between law enforcement and mob figures could be shaped by proximity, respect, and shared environments.  The conversation concludes with a look ahead at Eddie's upcoming podcast, which will expand on these themes through interviews with former IRS agents, mob associates, and others connected to Fred Pastore's extraordinary life.   This episode offers a rare look at the gray areas of justice—where the line between hunter and ally becomes increasingly difficult to define. Check out the book: Confidence of the Mob: The IRS Agent Who Took down the Mob – Then Advised Them, Hit me up on Venmo for a cup of coffee or a shot and a beer @ganglandwire Click here to “buy me a cup of coffee” Subscribe to the website for weekly notifications about updates and other Mob information. To go to the store or make a donation or rent Ballot Theft: Burglary, Murder, Coverup, click here To rent ‘Brothers against Brothers’ or ‘Gangland Wire,’ the documentaries click here.  To purchase one of my books, click here. Gary Jenkins: [00:00:00] hey, are you wire tapers? Good to be back here in the studio. Gangland wire. This is Gary Jenkins, retired Kansas City Police Intelligence Unit Detective. Glad to be back in the studio. I have a man on the line who’s written a really interesting book called Confidence of the Mob, the RIRS agent who took down the mafia and then advised him. So that’s what’s interesting about this. Here’s a man. The, it was part of the early racket squad with the IRS intelligence who were the guys that went after the mafia and in all the different cities, most famously in Chicago, and took down Al Capone, and he ends up in a conflict with his bosses over informant and then. He goes into business as an accountant and ends up advising Jerry Angelo and some and childhood friends, really. ’cause he grew up in the north end of Boston. So this is his grandson Eddie and Sarah. Welcome Eddie. Eddy Inserra: Hey, thanks Gary. Glad to be here. Gary Jenkins: All right guys. Now there’s the book and I’ll have [00:01:00] links to it in the, the show notes as well as you can see the book over Eddie’s right hand shoulder there. You’ll get it. Now. First thing I wanna bring up about this book, Eddie, is I’m gonna ask you a little bit about how you got into this, but about this QR code you have in there, guys, there’s a QR code in there. I don’t know, about a quarter of the way in. Tell us about that and what was your idea to do there? Eddy Inserra: Yeah, so the QR code takes you to our website, which is it links to confidence of the mob.com. And this project started off as me interviewing a bunch of people about. My grandfather’s story. So I have all these audio clips, I have all these documents that I found in the box that my mother gave me that really had my grandfather’s complete career in there. So it’s more of a evidence-based website where if you scan that QR code, you can access some of the documents. Listen to some of the clips by the book, just learn more about the story overall. So it’s, the QR code is meant to be interactive, so you can take from what’s on the book into your phone and just explore more, [00:02:00] right? Gary Jenkins: Really interesting that with the new internet and you can do so much more and make your, what used to be just a hardcover. Paperback or hardcover piece of, a bunch of papers together and you can go onto the internet and you can find so much more with really not that much effort and a little bit of effort on your part. I know that I did something like that with a book I did. And it is a little bit of effort, but it’s not as much effort as is really, I think for that to further instruct people, teach people what that life was like for your subject. ’cause that’s what you’re trying to do, is you wanna tell people what. Your grandfather’s life was like, and so that’s I think it was just ingenious of you to doing that. I haven’t really seen that. I don’t think there’s probably other books that I didn’t notice, but I had not seen that before. Anyhow Eddie, let’s let’s go back. You’re the grandson. Fred g Pastor, tell us how you got into this, your earliest memories of this. Did you know your grandfather when you were a little kid and probably didn’t get the stories you wish you’d gotten? More than likely [00:03:00] I’d have him. But tell us a little bit about that. Eddy Inserra: Yeah, so he actually passed away when I was eight years old, so I got to know him for eight years. He passed away in 1988, and then, I knew my grandfather was always, when you see your grandfather, he is always happy when you’re, a little kid. One side of him, always happy, generous smile on his face, always laughing. Typical grandfather give you candy when no one’s looking. Things like that. So typical grandfather, I found out later on that his life was much more complex than I had thought. And when I was younger, he had an office. So I’d go into the office and I’d, everybody would be doing accounting work. He’d have probably about, he had about six or seven employees, maybe more at some, sometimes I’d go into the office and I’m just a kid running around the hallways and sitting at the desks. My father worked there as well. And yeah, I’m just watching them push papers and write down numbers and stuff like that. So I didn’t think it was too, I thought it was pretty boring. It was cool, but it was boring. But later I found out much more about him. Gary Jenkins: Interesting. Eddy Inserra: Yeah. Gary Jenkins: So later on in life, how did you stumble [00:04:00] across this whole dualistic life He had in a way I would maybe dualistic not at the same time but these two careers that he had how did you stumble across that? Eddy Inserra: There was a box that my mother had in her attic, and it was a, an old Florida citrus oranges box carton and overflowing with papers. And she, about 10 to 12 years ago, she gave it to me and said, Eddie, I want to give you these documents that your grandfather’s documents. I don’t know what’s in them, but there yours now. So I said, okay, great. And I pulled out a couple of documents and I looked at them. One was like an accounting ledger. E exactly what I expected. Some, some numbers and things like that. And I put ’em back in the box and I said, lemme put this on the shelf and I’ll take a look at the other documents some other time. So a couple weeks later, I go back into it and I pull out some papers and I start seeing profiles for big names and organized crime that I had heard of in the past. Jerry Angiulo, Raymond Patriarchal profiles on Racketeers Bernie [00:05:00] McGarry, doc Gansky, all these huge. Folklore names from Boston gambling and numbers and mafia times from the 1950s to the 1960s. I started piecing it together and I said and then I find a telegram in there to, to the White House Bobby Kennedy and JFK from my grandfather saying, I need to meet you at the White House right away regarding this Bernard Goldfine case that I’m working on. And I just started piecing this together and I said whoa. I never knew anything about the IRS side, but. He was really the tip of the spear. You mentioned like Elliot Ness, Al Capone earlier. It was the same sort of division, the intelligence division that he was working in, but he was in the Northeast District and it was, this was obviously after Capone that era, but next generation of, racket squad leaders, and he was the tip of the spear in Boston and the FBI didn’t have jurisdiction at that time to go after these racketeers. It was the IRS at that time. Later on, after he switched sides, so to say the FBI took over, but at that time, the IRS was the [00:06:00] potent weapon against these racketeers. So I’ve got all his documentation on investigations, case notes commendations it’s just really a treasure trove of, his whole career. And I pieced this together over years. There’s hundreds of documents, had to put a timeline together. Gary Jenkins: Really. Eddy Inserra: You’ve done investigative work, you know how that stuff works and I didn’t know anything about it, so it was just complete disorganized mess and had to pull it all together. Yeah. Gary Jenkins: The first thing you have to do is get a timeline. Eddy Inserra: Yeah. Gary Jenkins: That is paramount. When you’re doing something like that, you have to get a time. In order to keep things straight. Otherwise, it just becomes a, it’s just, you can never get it straight in your mind. Interesting. You know that the IRS back in the day was the premier organization that, that and the the the Federal Narcotics people were the ones that went after the mafia, whereas the FBI wasn’t, and you know what people don’t understand about the IRS many people, the IRS is just this big, huge. Organization that’ll come down on you when you [00:07:00] cheat on your taxes. But it’s really two divisions. There’s a civil division, but then there’s this criminal division, which was called the Intelligence Unit for a long time. And then I think your grandfather what I read in your book was he went into some special squad within the intelligence division called the Racket Squad. Is that right? Eddy Inserra: Yeah, that’s correct. The Racket squad was a specialized division inside of the Intelligence Division. Okay. Which only went after high profile Racketeers. And there was even an old TV show if you go on YouTube and look up Racket Squad. Yeah. There was a TV show about that. Yeah. Gary Jenkins: I remembered. I think no, it was gangbusters on the radio, but Racket Squad was on tv. Interesting. Eddy Inserra: Yeah. Gary Jenkins: So he grew up with a lot of the mobsters in the Boston area. Correct. Eddy Inserra: Correct. He was born in 1919, the same year as Jerry Angiulo. They were the same age which you’ll hear that name a lot and a lot of your listeners know. Jerry Angiulo was the under boss of Raymond Patriarch in Boston. And so they grew up right across through the bridge. [00:08:00] So Fred grew up actually in East Boston and Jerry grew up in the North end, and I confirmed that they did know each other when they were kids. I don’t know how deep that relationship went, but they did know each other when they were kids. And there was another man who ended up becoming partners with Fred later on in his post IRS career who he grew up with named Guy Spano. And he was also in East Boston at that time, and they were all this they knew each other, Gary Jenkins: interesting. Fred, knowing all these people, he knows about the bars and stuff and I noticed one of the things that was interesting, one of the things looked like early cases. He went after the pinball racket. Guys back in the day, every corner store bars, they all had pinball machines and they were a great way. To launder money and get all this cash money in and not pay their taxes on kinda like a cover charge that strip clubs get today. Whether there’s a way to, to get line cash money in that didn’t really go through the cash register. Tell us about that pinball racket. Eddy Inserra: Yeah, the pinball racket was a big deal back then. There was a lot of paperwork in [00:09:00] his box about that. There was a map that he had inside that box that showed all the different places he was raiding in Massachusetts just for the pinball machine. Pinball machines and the pinball machines back then were a game, not a game of skill because they didn’t have flippers on them. So the flippers that, that came on later, then it became a game of skill and it wasn’t actually just throwing your money away and gambling, so to say. So they weren’t able to go after them after they added flippers to the machines. But before the flippers interesting. Gary Jenkins: Yeah, I did, I didn’t really realize that I saw one of those when I was. You my late teens over in Kansas City, Kansas, and now I didn’t really realize what the deal was. What it was if you play it so much and get lucky and your ball goes to a certain place, then you win. But if it doesn’t and there’s no way to have it, is all pure luck. That’s the difference. I’ll be darned. I never thought about that. Interesting. Eddy Inserra: Yeah. Gary Jenkins: Of course from then, that’s gambling and that’s where the money is. So he [00:10:00] continues on going after mobsters, Italian mobsters in that area of the country in organized, more organized gambling. So tell us a few of his other organized gambling investigations. Eddy Inserra: Yeah, he went after the Italians. He also did go after a lot of the Irish too that in his paperwork too. Wimpy Bennett, Walter Wimpy Bennett. There was a lot of, in Jewish DKI, like I mentioned. Yeah, a couple other too but yeah, one, one big investigation that really put him on the map was. The Raytheon investigation. Raytheon we know as a big defense company and they’re headquartered in Massachusetts. They always have been, I don’t know if they still are, but they have been up until a few years ago. But huge corporation and during that time was the Cold War. So they’re supposed to be building missiles, but they called the IRS saying, Hey, listen, we’ve got a problem. Our production, our manufacturing floor, everybody’s supposed to be working, but. They’re all not on the floor and they’re gambling somewhere. We don’t know where, we don’t know the root cause of this syndicate, but it’s in all of our buildings and people are consuming their time, playing the [00:11:00] daily numbers, betting on sports, all kinds of stuff. And they couldn’t really get to the root of it to root it out of the system. So they called the IRS, they assigned Fred, my grandfather to the case, and he took the lead. He ended up sending a bunch of his agents in undercover as janitors, and they had to go through the whole process, the whole hiring process as a normal, employee would try to get hired. So they’d have to submit an application, go through the test, all that stuff. Because the, it was just so embedded in Ray Raytheon that someone would. Tipped them off. So he got a bunch of these janitors in and they ended up finding out that the, there was long lines going to the bathroom all day long. And that’s, they were making the bets, taking the bets in the bathroom stalls in multiple locations. They rated them all at the simultaneously and they got a bunch of leads after that for more mafia stuff, but it was a big mafia gambling syndicate embedded in the US government sort of defense contractor. So that got him, that was on the cover of the newspapers. It was in. Magazines. It was a big deal. [00:12:00] So Gary Jenkins: Interesting. After that is that he gets crossways with. His bosses and with the US attorney’s office eventually. Was there any other cases I see on the headline here, Pastore names Paul’s, me and politicians behind the bookies. So how did he get into to finding who the bookies were paying off? Eddy Inserra: So he, he had an undercover confidential informant, I should say, who was giving him a lot of information. And we were real in the book. Who that was, we didn’t know at the time. Nobody in my family knew until a few years ago, and that’s, we’re talking 60, 50, 60 years ago. And even the president and RFK at the time wanted to know his confidential informant. So Fred was getting some really good information. They didn’t know where it was coming from. And Fred had made a deal at the time with Eisenhower and the chief of the IRS that. He’d keep this confidential informant on his, on the payroll, but the only people that would know about it was Eisenhower, the chief of the [00:13:00] IRS under Eisenhower and Fred. And then JFK came in, RFK came in as the Attorney General and they wanted to know whose confidential informant was and he would never give him up. So that, that caused some tension between Fred and RFK. Before that there was another case. With a man called Frank Aya. I don’t know if you’ve heard of him, but he’s out, he was out of Worcester part of the, actually, gen Outta Worcester. Yeah, outta Gary Jenkins: Worcester. Okay. Eddy Inserra: Yeah. Part of the Genovese faction so New York, but I, their territory went all the way up to Worcester. And the FBI was actually investigating him for the Brinks robbery in Boston. Gary Jenkins: Oh, Eddy Inserra: really? At the time. So they were looking for leads because they had understood that one of the guys was from Worcester. They’re, they assumed so they went interrogating him, and he said no, I’m not a criminal. I’m just a bookmaker. And as soon as he said that I guess Hoover didn’t want anything to do with Bookmaking at the FBI. So they just threw their hands up and they threw it at the IRS and [00:14:00] that fell in my grandfather’s lap. And so he started digging into IAC and he, he actually built a case against him. He ended up going to jail. But during that process, when he was investigating Ioni, Ioni gave up another man. His name was Bernard Goldfine. Wasn’t in the mafia. He’s a big businessman. He owned all these textile manufacturing companies. And he kept getting the contracts for all the US government, military uniforms every year. So no one else would ever win. And my grandfather exposed that there was some bribery and corruption going on. Between him and Eisenhower’s chief of staff named Sherman Adams. Gary Jenkins: Yeah, Eddy Inserra: I Gary Jenkins: remember, I remember that. Sherman Adams he went down. I remember that. Eddy Inserra: Do you remember the Una coat? That’s what that was the big Gary Jenkins: thing. Yeah. I forgotten about that. Somebody gave me this Una coat. I never was sure what a Una coat was, but yeah, I forgotten about that. The Vicuna code and he and everything, they found all these papers that be. For Eisenhower to four eight C, it’d have to say [00:15:00] KSA Sherman Adams. That was a big deal. While he was spooning feeding Eisenhower all the, anything that he wanted to have. Eddy Inserra: Yeah. That’s funny you remember that because that’s, yeah. Gary Jenkins: Yeah. That was huge at the time in the fifties. Eddy Inserra: Yeah. For some reason, he bribed him with a lot of things, hotel rooms, cash, all these things. But the Vicuna code, for some reason, stuck in the media, and that was my grandfather’s work, was exposing that and yeah. That was a big deal at the time and after he exposed that and with him not giving up that confidential informant. RFK wanted Fred out of Massachusetts. Pretty much out of the cross heads. We can get into that if you want, but yeah that’s the next Gary Jenkins: thing. What would he want? We, because Kennedy’s of course, were Boston area, new England based, and a lot of their people probably could then get in trouble with because of Fred Pastore and his bulldog attitude towards enforcing the law. Was that the deal? Eddy Inserra: Yeah, Fred would follow the money. I know that’s a common thing, but he really would follow the money. And from what I [00:16:00] understand, I wasn’t there, I didn’t live at that time, but from what I understand, he followed the money and wherever it led him and that led him right up to the White House. You know how politics are there, it’s a dirty game. So I’m sure that might’ve been someone who gave money to the candidate, maybe even the same guy, Bernard Goldfine or somebody. And if Fred dug that up, they could get. The same treatment Sherman Adams did. Gary Jenkins: Yeah. Yeah. Eddy Inserra: They wanted Fred out of there. Yeah. Gary Jenkins: So what happened then? They it seemed like they, they repressed him to reveal his informant or something like and he ended up, either I quit or, I have to give up my informant. Is that, was that what it came down to? Hobson’s choice like that? Eddy Inserra: Yeah, it came down to that. They tried to actually reassign him to Syracuse. New York was really, it was a demotion in pay and in actually title as well. So he would’ve been brought down. He wouldn’t have been in the rack racket squad. He would’ve been down to a special agent again, and would’ve been a step backwards and they would’ve had him out of the mix in Boston. And that’s really what they wanted to accomplish is silence Fred. Yeah. [00:17:00] So he was faced with a decision, do I take that demotion and that’s the end of it, or. Do what he actually did, which was, took him back to his up upbringing in East Boston. Tough poor kid when you actually have to face the bully, I think. And that street grit that he actually said no. You know what? He held his own press conference in downtown Boston and he said, I’m resigning from the IRS today. And I’m opening up my own tax fraud defense firm right across the street. He wanted to view them out the window every day. He had a chip on his shoulder. And so he ended up advising the same kind of people and some of the same people that he was previously going after at the IRS. And he was like a super weapon for those guys because he knew all the legalities and the loopholes and how to structure your businesses and things like that. So Gary Jenkins: yeah, I noticed there was like a Fred Angiulo was that Jerry’s brother then. Eddy Inserra: I don’t know if there was a Fred, if there was Gary Jenkins: a wonder. I thought it, it was Fred. I may have got [00:18:00] that name wrong, Nick in the Nick in my head, because your dad, your grandpa’s name was Fred Pastor. But anyhow, there he defended Angiulo and some of their people, he, he knew everybody went to North End at eight and, they were socially compatible, if you will. So tell us a little bit about that, what you learned about those, that part of his life. Eddy Inserra: Obviously post IRS career, I learned that from my mother and other people, that on the weekends Fred would go on Friday night. Him and his his daughter whose youngest daughter is Charmin, which is my mother. Oldest daughter’s, Pam and my grandmother is Nina. And they would go into Boston to the north end and they’d go down there for, to go to the bakery sit out front. The women would sit out front eating pastry, and Fred would go out back for about 15 minutes and. To me it was him giving advice maybe face to face. To, to Jerry and he’d come out 15 minutes with a paper bag from what I’ve heard. And and that would be it. Then they’d go to the fruit market and then they’d go home and they’d go out to Stella’s. [00:19:00] Restaurant in the North End on Fleet Street at the time, which is a famous spot. Even, JFK, they used to go there. But it was a real famous spot. Fred would be there a lot with the family. And on the weekends my mother remembers. So the Injus, by the way, Jerry and Jula, there was five brothers who really ran their empire together. But Jerry was the head of it and the genius with numbers. And he shared that with Fred. They both had a genius with numbers. So that was some that was interesting. And Nick would, his brother Nick would go to Fred’s house on Sundays, and my mother would call him Uncle Nick. He’d always bring something. One time he brought a pet dog for them. They had a dog, and he’d bring all kinds of gifts and they always saw the nice side to these people. Even in the office, when I went to the office and I met a couple of these people when I was young, I didn’t know who they were, but I, you’d always see the nice side because. Gary Jenkins: Yeah, Eddy Inserra: Fred was the golden goose helping them keep their money, but most importantly keeping them outta jail. So Gary Jenkins: interesting. Huh? That’s a, that’s quite a career switch. [00:20:00] The were you in 98 Prince Street? The famous 98 Prince Street. I went to the north end, went around, took some pictures and stuff. It’s nothing like it, it’s described, but back in the day, other than, it’s really cool, those little narrow brick streets and restaurants and everything. Talk about the north end over there. Eddy Inserra: The north end is that’s the Italian enclave of the city. Boston has different enclaves, different cultural enclaves I should say. And the North end is the the Italian, it actually was the was the Irish before the Italian. So a lot of people don’t know that. But I didn’t know that. The Italian section, and that’s where there’s, world class Italian food restaurants, every 10 feet. And. It’s a tight knit community. Everybody knows everybody especially back then. So you walk down the street, you’ll see people hanging on the corner and if when you’re, when you were a kid you’d go get your fireworks there at the park and, illegal fireworks and get whatever you want. But yeah, 98 Prince Street was where Jerry ran his sort of headquarters out of there and they called it the doghouse. That was, [00:21:00] they knew they had eyes looking out for them as well being there. So the whole neighborhood was really looking out for them. And eventually the FBI caught them by wiretapping a vehicle up front. Yeah. So inside. But yeah, it’s really tight knit Italian. If you come to Boston, I really recommend you go, especially if you want to eat some nice food and see how this still some remnants of how it used to be, like you said, those brick roads and things like that. It’s pretty nostalgic and interesting. Gary Jenkins: Yeah. Yeah, it’s really cool. I’d highly recommend any of you guys. You go out to, you, go to Boston, go to the north end and eat and just walk around. It’s really nice, although it’s pretty busy on the weekends, so a lot of people down there, man and some of the restaurants, there were long lines to get into ’em around dinnertime. Eddy Inserra: Yeah, try if you can make a reservation, try to, if not. Gary Jenkins: Yeah. Yeah. Good bakeries too that the nicer places. I can’t even remember the names of ’em now. I had ’em that day. But anyhow, so I have to, I’m gonna flip back just a little bit. I made a jotted down a note [00:22:00] about Frank, the cheese man c Chiara, who was at Apple Lake. He did he who was the consigliere, I think for Patri arca. I believe your grandfather went after him or had some dealings with him. Do you remember that? Eddy Inserra: Yeah, he, there was some documents in the box about him and they were telling him he was definitely the concierge for arraignment at the time. And there were documents that Fred’s team was actually tracking him. They were watching him, he was going to Cuba back and forth to Cuba at that time. And so they thought he was moving money or just setting things up with a casino and things like that down there. They couldn’t, I don’t know if they actually got him to go to jail. I don’t remember if they were able to prosecute him, but they were checking him at the airport. I remember they checked his passport. But he was the, he was a money man as well, so he was known to be like the bank at that time. Gary Jenkins: Did did your grandfather have any trouble? His own troubles with the IRS af? Did they come after him or try to go after him at any point in time? Later in his career? Usually they [00:23:00] do. Yeah. They could be pretty vindictive. I’ve seen it here where an FBI agent then becomes a white collar crime lawyer. And boy, I tell you what, his old buddies, he was, they, he, a friend of mine went like that and he was surprised. He was shocked how p how his old friends from the bureau treated him. So did he have any problems like that? Eddy Inserra: In fact, he had a big problem like that as soon as he wouldn’t give up, his informant’s name. That became a problem actually. The the FBI called him in one of the documents that I have. It’s a memo that he wrote right after he came back from the FBI interrogating him. So he was told to report to the FBI in Boston by himself. And this was from his IRS superiors that say that, they want you over there, you gotta go talk to them. And so he went over there. And there was two agents in the room with Fred and they interrogated him asking if he had taken bribes at all. Yeah. And Fred used he, he outwitted them saying, I can’t say anything. This is an on ongoing investigation. If he, if you want me to say anything about this, you’re gonna have to get my [00:24:00] superiors to sign off on this. And, whatever the process was. And he felt like it was unbelievable because he said, who’s accusing me of this? They wouldn’t tell him. But eventually he figured out that it was this textile manufacturer that I mentioned earlier, Bernard Goldfine, his sort of right hand woman, her name was Mildred Paperman. She had she’d already been convicted and so was Bernard Goldfine, but they had said that Fred was taking bribes from them. So they’re taking this information from convicted, felons. And she said she had proof of it. So she had a check made up to the initials, FGP and who else, that’s Fred’s initials. Yeah. Fred G passed story. So Fred started laughing when they pulled that out. He said, do you guys have any idea who this is? It’s not me. And it was for Maine Senator Frederick g Payne, with the same initials. And that was easily documented in his paperwork that he was accepting bribes from gold mines. It’s really interesting how he outsmarted them [00:25:00] and I guess they didn’t do their homework good enough, but, they went after him hard and even after he left the IR Rs they tried to, I think one of, one of the documents says you didn’t report $2 of your tax income or something like that. Just busted his dogs. Oh my Gary Jenkins: God. I’m in a heap of trouble then. Eddy Inserra: Yeah. But the thing that he did have. And I, I can’t say it for sure, but he did have, in his back pocket, was a list of police and politicians that did take bribes. And that’s what up in, in that newspaper behind me, he was supposed to release this list. There was the media believed that he was gonna release these names during his press conference. He didn’t, and I believe that was an insurance policy that he kept in his pocket to keep them away. That’s my belief. I can’t confirm that, but that’s my sort of theory on that. Yeah. Gary Jenkins: Yeah. I tell you what in Boston, greater Boston, that area, having a list of policemen and politicians that have been taking bribes, that’s like shooting fish in a barrel. Just take out about 10 out and name the rest. Eddy Inserra: I tell you what, [00:26:00] I do have that list. It was in the bar. Gary Jenkins: Oh, do you? Oh really? Yeah. Eddy Inserra: Yeah. Is Gary Jenkins: that gonna be on your website? Is that gonna be on your website or are you just keeping that to yourself? Eddy Inserra: I thought long and hard about that, and I don’t think it’s fair to ruin or tarnish any family or anything like that. So I, that’s not gonna come out. Gary Jenkins: Yeah. Interesting. Eddy Inserra: That has nothing to do with me. That’s not my, Gary Jenkins: I, I’d have to agree with that, that those were different times, different days. Yeah. And there’s no use hurting in what would be innocent people today with that kind of information, especially Boston seemed like it’s a. A small community in, in, in a way, it’s not like New York where you’re spread out over all these boroughs and Los Angeles, where you’re spread out over, 25% of the state. It’s more like Kansas City, more like a small area that is Boston. And so a lot of people, everybody knows each other in some manner. Eddy Inserra: Yeah exactly. Couple of degrees of separation if that. Gary Jenkins: Yeah. Eddy Inserra: Yeah. Gary Jenkins: Interesting. Eddy Inserra: Yeah. Gary Jenkins: All right, Eddie and [00:27:00] Sarah, confidence of the mob, the IRS agent who took down the mafia and then advised them. So a really interesting book. Guys. I’ll have links to the website or to the Amazon page where you can buy this book. I’d highly recommend you buy it and when you do, go in there see, I don’t know, it’s about a quarter of the way in and find that find that QR code and. Go to that website and listen to some, I listened to a couple of three of those interviews. Really interesting stuff. That off the stuff that you can’t get everything in, but it’s interesting. I understand about that. Eddy Inserra: Thanks Gary. Yeah. That’s a upcoming podcast. We’re gonna have all full interviews and all that stuff with all. Oh, Gary Jenkins: Are you gonna do one yourself or with somebody there in Boston? Eddy Inserra: We’ve, it’s not gonna be a live podcast. It’s actually a bunch of clips thrown together. So it’s, oh, Gary Jenkins: I see. Eddy Inserra: Okay. Yeah we put it all together. It’s taken a couple years, so far, 12 episodes. We’ve got IRS agents in there, mafia members. We’ve got Fred’s ex clients and family. It’s really interesting. So you can check [00:28:00] that out on the website. Gary Jenkins: Yeah. When is that coming? Eddy Inserra: So we’re shooting to start releasing the end of May. So last week in May. Okay. Gary Jenkins: I love board. I always need another podcast to listen to myself. Eddy Inserra: Yeah. Yeah. Only gonna be one season. It’s not gonna be a multiple season thing. Gary Jenkins: That, that was my next question. It was gonna be a limit limited edition, if you will. Limited season. You’re not gonna keep going year in and year out like I do. Eddy Inserra: Yeah, no, there’s not enough content, but we’ll do behind the scenes and we’ll do some live stuff in Boston and things like that. Yeah. Okay. If anybody knew Fred or of him, please contact me too on the website. Okay. Love to hear about. Gary Jenkins: All right. Great. Alright Eddie and Sarah, I really appreciate you coming on the show. Eddy Inserra: Thanks, Gary. Great to meet you.

In this episode, host Gary Jenkins, a retired Kansas City Police Intelligence Unit detective, sits down with author and mob expert Springs Toledo and discusses the Boston Winter Hill Gang and its notorious members. Springs' book, “Don’t Talk About Joe Mac: The Life, Wars, and Secret History of the Man Behind the Winter Hill Gang” Springs Toledo provides an exhaustive look at Joe McDonald aka Mac, a pivotal yet often overlooked figure in the Boston criminal landscape, especially during the 1960s-1990s. Springs, a Boston native, brings a unique perspective and personal anecdotes that enrich our understanding of the intersections of crime, family, and community within the city. They explore Joe Mac’s early life and how his background shaped his role in organized crime. Springs shares how Mac was an elder statesman in the underworld, feared and respected for his ability to organize the rackets in Somerville and maintain a significant network of relationships across various neighborhoods. Joe Mac's methods of operation were emblematic of a time when the Irish underworld was gaining ground in a city dominated by Italian crime families. Springs discusses the stark differences in these organizations, from their cultural practices to their hierarchies. Springs also highlights the complexities of Joe Mac's personal life, discussing his relationships with his family, especially his daughter Jacqueline. Their conversations reveal a side of Mac rarely seen in crime stories — a devoted father struggling with his dual identity as a loving parent and a cold-blooded criminal. Throughout the episode, Springs captures the essence of Mac's character, noting that while he was involved in heinous acts, he also exhibited genuine love for his family, a contradiction that adds depth to his narrative. As the conversation unfolds, we examine the dynamics within the Winter Hill Gang, particularly the relationships among Joe Mac, prominent figures like Whitey Bulger, and Howie Carr. Springs shares fascinating insights into Mac's cautious nature and strategic approach to power. He articulates how Mac operated in the shadows, steering clear of public scrutiny while effectively managing the group's criminal enterprises. The episode paints a vivid portrait of a gang operating amid violence, betrayal, and survival. In addition to discussing the various criminal exploits, Springs shares some gripping anecdotes that illustrate the real-life implications of this lifestyle. His stories about Joe’s attempts to balance family life while dodging law enforcement showcase the constant threat that loomed over their lives, encapsulating the dangerous allure and traumatizing consequences of organized crime. We also touch upon the significant events that defined the gang wars in Boston, including Joe Mac’s suspected involvement in notorious hits and how the landscape of crime shifted in response to law enforcement's increased focus on organized crime. Springs dives into the enigmatic character of Joe Mac, unraveling his military background, his unyielding commitment to the underworld, and how he managed to stay a step ahead of rivals and authorities alike. In closing, Springs reflects on the motivations behind his book—his desire to portray the human side of a man branded a monster while exploring the broader themes of morality, family, and the haunting legacy of crime. As we wrap up, it becomes clear that “Don’t Talk About Joe Mac” is not just a biography of an infamous crime figure, but a complex narrative that invites readers to ponder the true cost of a life steeped in organized crime. This episode is a riveting exploration of character, culture, and crime, offering audiences an engaging glimpse into the storied history of Boston organized crime, the Winter Hill gang through the lens of one of its most pivotal figures, Joe Mac. Hit me up on Venmo for a cup of coffee or a shot and a beer @ganglandwire Click here to “buy me a cup of coffee” Subscribe to the website for weekly notifications about updates and other Mob information. To go to the store or make a donation or rent Ballot Theft: Burglary, Murder, Coverup, click here To rent ‘Brothers against Brothers’ or ‘Gangland Wire,’ the documentaries click here.  To purchase one of my books, click here. Springs Toledo JOe mac Gary Jenkins: [00:00:00] hey, all your wire tappers out there. Gary Jenkins back here in the studio of Gangland Wire. I’m a retired Kansas City Police Intelligence unit detective, doing a podcast mainly about organized crime. We might stray into drugs every once in a while, but primarily about Italian based organized crime or, and then sometimes we get into Irish based organized crime. I’ve done a story on the Westie in the past and a few other stories like that. So today we’re gonna talk about the. Crossing of the Irish and and the Italians in Boston area, which is a really well known, famous story. A lot of great characters. And I have with me a man who wrote a book about this. Springs Toledo, welcome Springs. Springs Toledo: Thank you very much, Gary. Happy to be here. Gary Jenkins: Great. Now guys, the books is, don’t Talk about Joe Mack the Life Wars and Secret History of the Man Behind The Winter Hill Gang. And I’ve always wondered about this Winter Hill gang. I’ve always heard of it and Whitey Bulger came out of that and was so famous, but I’ve never really. [00:01:00] Seen anything or know anything about the background of it. And Springs, Toledo has somebody, a guy called Joe Mack that was involved in that and he’s really gone into it in depth. Springs, tell us a little bit about yourself, how you got into this. Springs Toledo: I’m a native of Boston, which did help, the accent helped open doors. Gary Jenkins: We can tell. Springs Toledo: But I don’t even try to hide it anymore. And I have a background in, in boxing, which also helps, that’s a breeding ground for, leg breakers and enforcers. Historically, in Boston, a lot of ex fighters became gangsters or, involved in that life. I went to Northeastern got a graduate degree in criminology. And I I didn’t, I never became a police officer. I worked with, actually with juvenile delinquents and troubled youth for many years. I’ve written several books some about boxing, some about an historical figure named John Brown, who’s an abolitionist, so I’m running the gamut. But Joe McDonald was a name that I heard whispered for many years, growing up. He had a very long criminal career over five decades.[00:02:00] And, so he was considered something very serious. But what I began to notice as the book started coming out after John Madano became a cooperating witness, as he’d say. Is that not much was known about this individual. What I knew is that he was about 20 years older than everybody else. So he’s an elder statesman in that world. So I started poking around. I know some guys who were involved in that life. I know some other guys who were very connected to very serious individuals who were active in the Boston Underworld during these years, the sixties, seventies, eighties, into the nineties. Yeah. So I started, asking around and the things I started to hear were very downright alarming about who this man was and that he was the guy not Whitey Bulger. There was what they’ll all tell you the deeper you get into the operators in that world is that Whitey Bulger is. Largely a mythology. And that in Somerville especially, he wasn’t really that respected. Joe Mack, however, was Joe Mack was, he [00:03:00] was the go-to guy. And upon doing all kinds of research, field research, but also I’m trying to corroborate everything. People are saying you can’t just take what people have to say at face value, especially if they’re, underworld figures. Yeah. A lot of ’em have a self-interest as so what I would do, I had a little strategy. What I would do is I would talk to one guy in Southie if I heard a story that sounded intriguing or something about Joe Mack, what have you, and then I’d try to find another guy in Somerville or East Boston or Hy Park who didn’t necessarily know that individual. And if the stories match, I’d look into it further. For instance, I wanna make sure the guy wasn’t in prison at that time, that he’s allegedly known to have done something. So that’s how I began to put together a picture. And what the u unanimously what I found out is that Joe McDonald was really the, he’s the one that put together organized crime in Somerville, centered in Winter Hill. He organized the launch sh the rackets loan, sharking booking, sports betting, all of that. And he was a very feared individual.[00:04:00] He looked like a building superintendent. He was balding. He, no, he was nothing flashy about him. He was family man. But so I started digging deeper and I got his military records, and then the picture really started to come together because of what he went through during World War II in the South Pacific and the trauma that he suffered. I didn’t wanna write a straight True crime book. So I wanted to do something different. I didn’t want it to be ordinary. I wanted it to be get underneath the behavior. It’s the, the criminology major is, was showing it’s yeah. Was coming to the fore. So I wanna get underneath it. So I consider this book more of a nonfiction noir. ‘Cause if you watch those old movies, a lot of ’em have a theme where you have, the main character, the anti-hero. These are movies from the forties, all black and white. All shadowy. Yeah. They come back from World War ii and they’re troubled. They’re shell-shocked. JoEM, Joe Mack came back and he’s marred. Something about his personality had changed and he’s one of the few individuals that I’ve encountered who [00:05:00] actually age into crime. He didn’t age out of it like everybody else. He aged into it. But he was very good at what he did. He was a brilliant individual. Very strong-willed. Someone said that I talked to, they said that, all the fear, whatever fear he had was knocked out of him, in SVO sound. When his ship went down, which was a USS Quincy with his brother on it. So he became a, began to emerge as a fascinating figure. But what. Made me decide to write the book was when I was hooked up with his daughter by TJ English. I reached out to him and he, he told me about Jackie McDonald. I reached out to her and I said, I’m thinking about writing a book about your father, Joe McDonald. I don’t think that the the literature on him now really got him right. And she said, give me a night to drink about it. Yeah, so the next morning she told me she was she’ll tell me everything she knows and she was the right person because first of all, she was named for the brother that he lost in SVO sound that he never got over his little brother. Her name’s [00:06:00] Jacqueline. And like her father, she’s absolutely brilliant. She’s charismatic. She is incredibly honest. If she’s not sure about something she’d say. So nothing in it was, what she told me was about herself. It was nothing was ego driven. She wanted to tell the truth of her father. And what I began to realize early on is that you know this, you have victims of guys like Joe McDonald who killed dozens of people professionally, but he was a murderer. There’s no doubt about it. And you have a lot of victims, including in his own family. Not that he intended to hurt his daughters and his son, but his, who he was and what he was, did a lot of damage to his own family and she was the perfect person to talk to because she was so honest. She’s also very funny if, you read about her in the book, she comes across as a real character, very charismatic. So her story runs parallel with his, she comes out about the middle of the book. I trace her life alongside with his, and she had a memoir that she did many years ago and she shared that with me. [00:07:00] She’s she really is a force of good, if you will, in the book. She’s the one to cheer for, she’s the one to root for. Joe McDonald is a formidable figure, but he’s a dark and shadow. We figure. I do bring him out as much as I can and he is fascinating, but. I felt like I needed someone to root for the reader, yeah. And also, it’s women who love true crime the most. Yeah. Gary Jenkins: That’s so Springs Toledo: had to give nod to them, they’re gonna buy it. Gary Jenkins: That is true. And a story like this will will attract men and women both, sometimes those just straight, kill ’em all and let God sort ’em out. Of true crime books are not really attractive to women. That’s really interesting that. You’re showing the human side of this guy instead of just the crime side, which there every one of these guys that are professional criminals in this life have a human side. They, that’s what one thing that fascinated me about ’em, even way back when I started, went into the intelligence unit is these guys all had families and they had kids going to St. Pius up here and they played football and the families all showed up [00:08:00] when their kids played football and they were in little league and all that kind of normal stuff. On one hand, but yet they came over into the CI city in here. They came from the suburbs over in the city and were these gangsters all night long, and then went back home to their suburban homes. So that family side. That’s really interesting. I’m glad you did that. Springs Toledo: That’s compartmentalization. And Joe was the best at it. But there was something unusual about this case and that is that. Joe told nothing to anybody. His Winter Hill partners barely knew about his personal life. They didn’t know much about him. Yeah, nobody knew much about him. ’cause he didn’t confide in anybody. He did it the way you’re supposed to do it. As an organized, if you’re gonna get into organized crime, you want to follow his lead. And he lived a tough life. It’s nothing to get into in terms of choosing that as an occupation. However, he did confide in his daughters. He trusted them and he told them an awful lot, which he didn’t realize was traumatizing them. But. Jackie McDonald is blessed with a very good memory, so she was able to fill in [00:09:00] a lot of blanks about some of which were cold case murders and other just, real eyebrow raising incidents that happened. I think this book would’ve been invaluable to the FBI. Right up to the early nineties interest because of the stuff that came out, several cold case murders. I think I solved them. And, they were attributable, well attributed. I attribute them to Joe, a few. I know he did. But, people didn’t know, and he was a, excuse my saying, but he had. He was a real talent for that. He knew how to get you. He knew how to find you. He knew how to get you. And he also, like I said, he didn’t have any fear, so there was nothing holding him back. And that’s a difference from Whitey Bulger. What people don’t realize is that Whitey Bulger was a very careful man. And that’s why a lot of murders attributed to Whitey Bulger. He didn’t do, it doesn’t even, it, it offends his personality. He was the kind of guy, if he’s gonna kill you, you’re gonna be in the basement tied to a chair, or you’re gonna be a woman. He’s not on Northern Avenue in Boston in broad daylight, killing Brian Halleran. It’s not true. That’s not Whitey [00:10:00] bulge, that’s not how he operated. Joe Mack was a different beast altogether, and yet he was never indicted for murder. He was questioned maybe for one of them. And the title is really a reason for that because you didn’t talk about Joe Mack. That’s actually, that’s that’s. I like the title a lot. It took me a long time to get to that title. First title was Hey Joe, ’cause of the song. And I was like, ah. Nobody said, Hey, Joe to him. Where you going with that gun in your hand, huh? That’s right. You’re good. Yeah. Jimmy Hendrix. And then another title was the Wars of Joe Mack. That was a little too masculine that works, but it was too masculine. Yeah, don’t talk about Joe Mack really captures, what he was and how he operated. Gary Jenkins: Springs set the geographic scene. I’ve always been a little bit confused about this in Boston. IU Boston is unlike Kansas City, for example, what I’m familiar with. It has these really distinct areas in neighborhoods. Set the scene, the Italians African Americans, the Irish what set that up for us? [00:11:00] Springs Toledo: Okay, this is the, fifties, sixties, seventies that, that’s where most of the book is occurring. Especially 60, 70, actually into the eighties. Boston first of all it’s basically back then was an Irish Catholic city. Yeah. There were other ethnicities, but it was overrun with the Irish and there were neighborhoods. So you had. You had neighborhood crews, you had crews that were operated out of East Boston. That’s Barboza, south Boston was several of them. Jamaica Plain, the North End obviously was where the mafia was. Sented La Ostra. Somerville, Charlestown. And a lot of, most of these guys who were got into criminality. Not only did they have families, they also had occupations. They were long showmen, they were roofers. They had jobs. I’m a policeman. And back then policemen, you didn’t make a lot of money. So you were encouraged to supplement your income. Oh yeah. Some of these guys were, they were detectives by day and they’re doing heists at night and that was not uncommon. And. Over time, certain organizations [00:12:00] became more organized and the Irish, remember, were barely organized. They were more like, it was more like the old West when things got hot. It was also a whiskey driven, a lot of the heinous acts and the murders that started to happen with that, the Irish gang war in the sixties, everybody was drunk. Some of these guys were really nice guys and then they got to the whiskey and forget it. They become monsters. Not everybody, but but. Boston was also very segregated. Not like the south. It was, there was natural neighborhoods, I was in Hy Park, that’s where I came up. If I went to Southy, there was a problem ’cause I didn’t know a lot of people there. If somebody from Southie went to the North End, it’s a problem. You are Irish, you shouldn’t be here. You didn’t cross boundaries. Mattapan was Jewish and then it became black. Same thing. So everybody congregating together is very tribal in that sense. Less so now, but there are still pockets, what’s upsetting to me is that you barely hear the accent, and you’re walking through Boston, you don’t hear the accent too much anymore. You have to get to Dorchester. That’s their accent’s. 10 times worse than mine, [00:13:00] and mine’s pretty bad but Joe Mack was Joe Mack was born in Medford, Massachusetts. He then, he was in Somerville by about 1950. His mother had moved there as as clan, if you will. Had moved there, his sisters and brothers. And so he was in Somerville in Winter Hill, and that’s where he started to operate and that’s where he started to put things together. Gary Jenkins: Interesting. You say Winter Hill. So let’s talk about the beginnings or this Winter Hill gang. I’ve heard of this. Many times. And Whitey Bulger of course popularized it. So tell me about the Winter Hill gang and Howie Carr. And there’s a famous picture that see on internet or on Facebook with our Underboss Tuffy Luna and this guy that was the head of the Winter Hill gang and a couple other gangsters from New York. So tell us about the beginning of this Winter Hill gang. Springs Toledo: We deserves a lot of credit. He’s the one that really brought the stuff out beginning in the eighties. He had the guts to mention Joe Mack in print. That’s high risk. I’m not sure how much he did it, but he was really [00:14:00] attuned to it early. And he had some great books, but winter Hill’s a neighborhood in Somerville. It’s not South Boston. You talk to guys who were associated with the Winter Hill Gang, what they called the Hill. Really? It was called The Hill by those who were a part of that organization. They get very resentful about Whitey Belgium and some of them will say that Whitey Belger wasn’t Winter Hill. Whitey Belgium was a partner, but he was South Boston. Okay. Once, and it’s a big story, but once he, it’s all in the book. But once he betrayed his partners in 79. With Fleming and all the partners just about were either they were all indicted except for about this big horse racing scheme that was going on, across several states. But Whitey and Fleming were unindicted co-conspirators, and that was hint number one that prompted Joe to go to Howie Winter, who was the face of the organization and say, I’m gonna kill them both. He was talked out of it because it’d be too much heat because Whitey had some very serious connections. You can’t take that away from him. And so he was a high [00:15:00] risk hit. Joe would’ve done it anyway and would’ve probably made him disappear or threw it at another organization to get the heat off the hill. But he was restrained, which was, I thought was a big mistake, but who can tell then? But after he cleared the field of his rivals, who. Where his partners in the Winter Hill gang he ostensibly should have taken over the rackets in Somerville, but that wasn’t really the case. He had salty that was his turf. He was a local guy. Salty was really where he was. He was no longer really welcome is my understanding from guys who I talked to were there, he was basically chased out of the Marshall Motor’s garage in Somerville in Winter Hill, and that’s when he went to the Lancaster garage in, on North End, which is closer to home, closer to his. Space of operations. Yeah. But Whitey was very treacherous and he was Machiavellian in his methods. Joe at the time was already on the lamb because I don’t think Whitey would’ve survived that if Joe was close and saw what he was doing. So it’s a lot of what could have been, if Joe wasn’t in the wind because of several other crimes and murders he was [00:16:00] doing at the time, he was actually on the FBI’s 10 most wanted on 76, long before Whitey was on it. Gary Jenkins: Interesting. So then the relationship between Howie Carr and Joe Mack how was that, how did that shake down? Springs Toledo: Howie Winter, you mean, Gary Jenkins: or Howie Winter, I’m sorry. Springs Toledo: Yeah. Howie Winter was mentored by Joe Mack. See, Joe Mack was really, he was like the general, he was like the general on the field. The Irish don’t operate in a hierarchy. That’s an Italian thing. There’s no ring kissing in an Irish pub. It’s just a different culture. What they were partners. You had one guy up front. He was the face of it. That’s Howie. Howie was the face of it before Howie’s buddy McClain. In the early, in the early sixties. Joe though, the guy in the shadows, he used to say, I’m at the back of the bus. He’s at the back of the bus, but he’s the one with the map. He’s the go-to guy. The guy up front is the guy that gets hit. That’s the guy that gets indicted. So Joe was astute enough to, just stay in the [00:17:00] background, let the kids have it. But they were. Very close, very close. During the war they were, very tight-knit organization. These were friends. They were very affectionate with each other. They took care of one another. This is before Whitey came in. He was, he poisoned the well. But Joe and Howie and Buddy McClean and they, anos when they come in, they were very close. It was a kind of a band of brothers in a way. But Joe still made. Maintain that, everybody was at arms length with him. He was careful about everybody. There was a rift between Howie and Joe later in their respective lives in the in the eighties, into the nineties. I’m told that it was healed. I don’t think it was, and that’s unfortunate. But they were close to most of their lives, they literally went to war together on, on the street, you’re gonna form strong bonds when you know you’re looking at this guy and you gotta rely on him to watch your back. And Gary Jenkins: yeah, Springs Toledo: that’s what was happening. Gary Jenkins: So Irish, they didn’t kick up, if you will, to somebody above them. Everybody was a kind of a independent operator. If you got a piece of action and you had something going that you didn’t have to kick up to [00:18:00] somebody to be part of the Winter Hill gang, if you will. Springs Toledo: That was where the, there were a lot of crews around. They were called independents. And there’s a lot of them around in Boston in the sixties. But if you got too big and you started making real money, Patri was a power in Boston. Gary Jenkins: Yeah. Springs Toledo: Raymond Patri, he was a power in Boston. There’s no doubt about that. But there’s two schools of thought. Some believe that Winter Hill had to always kick up to them, kick to Providence. Others say? No, not really. Because first of all, he loved Buddy McClean. Buddy McClain was he was a very charismatic guy, very tough guy, and he was a man of his word, so they really liked him. So there’s the other school of thought is that, they liked Buddy, they gave him a pass on that. But every now and then they’d have to do him favors, maybe do some hits, things like that. Yeah. Yeah. But again, but in, in Boston it’s, like I said, it’s mostly Irish, it’s not set up like New York where the Italians are a real power that’s right there. He, one guy, matter of fact a name of one of the chapters in the book where I get into the Gangland war. Is Boston was [00:19:00] overrun with sick bastards, quote unquote, because there was just so many dangerous guys. There wasn’t a few here and there, like the gallows or it, there was hundreds of guys and there was damn near psychopathic they were called and underworld polls. There was savages, they go right to your house. And it was too many. This, one guy actually several believed that if there was a problem between Rhode Island. The Boston Underworld, meaning Boston Writ Lodge, including Somerville, Medford, Malden, all that. That. The Italians would’ve come to the table. ’cause the Irish underworld, the Boston Underworld here would’ve made it very much not worth it. Not worth the blood and the treasure. So it’s, yes, with very interesting culture here. What you couldn’t control the Boston underworld. They would just, Boston itself has a reputation. You don’t wanna invade this place. Gary Jenkins: Yeah, just ask the English, huh? Springs Toledo: Exactly. Yeah. We go way back with that stuff. Yeah. Gary Jenkins: Yeah it’s, I was at I went into the north end and looked around at Prince Street and all the place where [00:20:00] Jerry Angelo and all that was going on, and that is such a small. Discreet little area in that then, so you, they just operated and he was not any kind of a real power. It didn’t seem to be like, compared to patriarchal. He was under patriarchal of course. And he didn’t really, it’s like the Irish all had their own thing all around him. All, and he didn’t really have didn’t, I didn’t find any, anything I’ve ever seen where there was much to do between those two. Was there, did he have anything about that? Springs Toledo: He had he had two guys joe Russo, he was a killer. He was a very serious individual and a guy who has two names. Some call him Byi, some call him Zino. Larry was his name. Very serious guy. But that’s two guys. The other dangerous guys in the north end. They were getting up there in age. Meanwhile, like you just alluded to, this sur this surrounded, by these, these crazy guys. Yeah, but they, they did. There was some interplay, there was some contracts would be given to the Hill, for instance. That happened several times. The Hill would borrow [00:21:00] money from Angelou and Jou had a lot of money. They’d borrow money from him. Whitey Belger borrowed money from him with Fleming and actually didn’t pay it back. And then Joe Mack got out of the can. This is 80 late 86, 87, and him and Howie went to Fleming and Whitey and said, listen, you’re paying them back. Matter of fact, you’re paying them back a million because you made us look bad. We pay our debts, you pay him, you pay in back 1 million. And they did. They Whitey Bulger. Yeah. Whitey Bulger did not step two, Joe McDonald. In other words he wasn’t the power that Johnny Depp would have us believe. Gary Jenkins: Interesting. So let’s go back to the family just a little bit. His daughter Jack Le, so when he went to prison, did she talk about that? I have a friend who went to prison for several years and he talks, tells me a lot about his kids coming to visit him in prison. Did he talk about that? Did she talk about that? How that affected her? Springs Toledo: She she talks about her whole life and how he was a shadow in her life. She loved him, [00:22:00] but he brought a lot of chains behind him and a lot of ghosts and a lot of fear of FBI raids and things like that. Even when he was on the run from the FBI was on the, top 10 most wanted, it’s only six o’clock news all over the place in every post office. He would just show up and see her. He thought he was being a dutiful father. He’s showing up. He’s got these black sideburns, glued onto his face and she could see the ink dripping. He got his rug on his head he startled her a lot. So she. He was a cause of great anxiety. And then she became a mother, and then things started to change. She had to protect her boys. And while, he looked like he could be a good grandfather, he was an extremely dangerous man. And when he went away to prison, she tried to be a good daughter. She would send him clippings. Matter of fact, she sent him a clipping of I think it was a national examiner because her father was in it. It was about the top 10. FBI fugitives. And she pointed out she was into astronomy and she astrology and she pointed [00:23:00] out that Joe Mack and another guy named Leo Corey had the same birthday, July 14th. So she thought he’d get a kick outta that. He gets outta prison a few years later, and he shows up at her house with Leo Corey. Who’s still on the top 10 most wanted. And she, he opens the door. He said, do you remember this guy? And she turned, that, that was a scary, that was a very scary moment for her. Yeah. He’s bringing very, this is a convicted murderer. It’s a multiple murderer. She’s got bringing, he’s bringing it to her house like he’s an old friend. So that kind of stuff happened a lot. It almost show off like that. Look what I can do. Yeah. So she had, I, she did love him and she has since forgiven him. And I think this book is part of her process to forgive, what he put her through and what he put his other children through. Not intentionally, he tried to be a good father, but how can you. In that position. Gary Jenkins: Yeah. Yeah. When you bring that violence into the home, and you can’t help but bring that aura of [00:24:00] violence with you. When you live that life and when you come back into the home, there’s still that edge of violence that, that unspoken communication, you jump every time, somebody pulls up out in front and you’re running to the window to see who it is and there’s just always, always on edge. I, that would be it. Springs Toledo: Here’s a good story. So he’s on the run. This is in the I think it’s the late sixties. Joe’s on the run. She’s at home and Joe set his wife and kids up in Malden and a house on the hill. And originally he was gonna live there too. And it’s a, it is a great place. He’s up, he’s on a corner. He’s on a hill. You can see Boston from it. So it’s got a great vantage point for kind of a, a paranoid damaged war veteran. Yeah. So a call comes into the house. Voice says, you know who this is. She’s about 11, 12 years old. Voice says, you know who this is? Yes. Meet me at the bottom of the hill. So she gets her sister Patty and they meet their dad at the bottom of the hill. He takes them bowling and saga. He’s got the disguise on. Yeah. He’s got so many IDs, fake IDs, and he’s they [00:25:00] go to they, they go bowl and. You gotta wait for Lane. So he’s sitting there like this, he got his arms out. He’s feeling good about himself. He’s a good dad. He got his two teenage girls here and one of ’em, one of ’em, almost a teenager. And suddenly over the intercom, Thomas Campbell, your lane is ready. And he’s just sitting there. Thomas Campbell, he’s just sitting there. Finally his daughter says, pat says, dad, that’s you. Oh. And off he goes. So he wasn’t even sure who he was half the time. Yeah. So he’s my heart went out to him in that sense because here’s a man who made some very dark life choices and he’s trying to be a conventional father. Meanwhile, he’s gotta keep his eye on the clock, on the door, on the phone and everything else, all day long. Not to mention the fact that, there’s, it was dangerous lifestyle. But, his daughters, I, his daughters, they idolize him and they loved him. They didn’t fear him, he never raised his hand to them, never raised his hand to them, but they feared what he brought with ’em. Yeah. And that’s a theme book. Gary Jenkins: Yeah. Interesting. Yeah, that’s a, that’s that is so interesting. Think about this [00:26:00] era or of violent violence. I think somewhere in the book I noticed I was going through it where he may have been possibly one of the suspects on the Joe Barbosa head out in San Francisco when they finally got him and in. Springs Toledo: That’s fascinating because actually I had to take out ’cause of the publisher, I take about 15,000 words, but I really get into that. But that had to go. But what happened was. He had to go out there and kill a federal witness. And this guy was a civilian. This guy looked like a grandfather. And but he was gonna be a fence for some rear stamps that Joe had taken a million dollars worth of rear stamps. And this guy was gonna be the fence. He was a rear stamp collector out in Sierra Madre. Long story short, in January of 1976, Joe Mack drives out there, shoots him in the head five times in front of his wife, and then in February, that’s when Bob Bozer is killed February, 1976. This is January, 1976. Now, what I heard from two sources, and they’re pretty good, is that Joe did not go from Sierra Madre, [00:27:00] California back to Somerville. What he did was he went to Laurel Canyon and that’s where Alex Rocco was staying. Alex Rocco du played Mo Green in The Godfather. Oh, Gary Jenkins: yeah. Yeah. Springs Toledo: Yeah, he was a Winter Hill guy and Joe stayed with him on the lamb for so many weeks. I don’t know if it’s true. I couldn’t chase that down. No way you’re gonna find that out. But it was an intriguing little tidbit. So then in in February Bob Bozer is killed. Now when that news hit a bar in Boston called Clocks was a mob hangout. The bartender who knew all these guys. He got off the phone and he yelled out to the bar that Bleepity bleep stool pigeon. Animal Barbosa is dead and gone. God bless Joe Mack. That’s what he said. He just assumed Joe Mack did it. So what I’m trying to chase that down and what happens is so I’m talking to guys, who’re talking to guys. What I [00:28:00] found out is that one guy said no, this that, that wasn’t Joe that was kept in-house among the Italians because Bob Bza really took apart the Italians influences Yeah. In Boston. Yeah. He took them apart with lies. And however, there were three people in that van. I got these I got freedom of information documents and. What I was told by a made guy actually, is that it was Russo and Byi Zino. They’re the ones that took out Bob Bozo with a shotgun from a van. The van two seats were taken out of the van. The windows were painted black. This. Side windows were painted black and peeps were drilled into the side door and the back, so they worked hard to get ’em, but there was a third man in the van, so that’s a little intriguing. Could it have been Joe? I don’t know. Probably not. I’d have to say probably not, but nice story. And then from there, and then literally just a few weeks after that, Joe was in disguise. Remember now he’s already on the news as a as a top 10 fugitive. The FBI’s looking [00:29:00] for, and where is he? He’s in Walpole. How did I find out? I got everybody’s prison records. I could, and Brian Halleran, who turns up later in the book and then turns up dead later in the book. He’s in prison. Joe visits him. How do I know? It’s Joe’s Alias? John A. Kelly, that was his alias at the time. So he’s wanted by the FBI, he’s on the news and literally a week or two later. He’s visiting somebody in Walpole State Prison. From there, I trace him to Montreal. What’s he doing in Montreal? He’s sticking, he’s holding up a an ahed car robbery. With the Montreal Express, they had a great program, the Montreal Express. And Somerville, what they would do is they would just swap guys to do these big highs, get these ika, get these banks, and then just return. So it was awfully hard to catch ’em ’cause they’re just doing like a swap off. Yeah. Joe Mack. Was up there. And what he was doing was, and he, it was a white van, which raises an eyebrow, another white van. And the Amed car, the guy wouldn’t open the door. So they open up the [00:30:00] door of the back doors of the white van. And there is a World War II Browning anti-aircraft gun. And guess who’s behind it? Joe Mack. So this is a very busy man, and he should be, he’s retirement age but did he kill Boba? Probably not, but there was a third guy there. I would not be surprised. I know the Italians used him. Gary Jenkins: You brought something to Montreal Express Now what’s that? I, that I’m not from, I’ve not heard that term before. Springs Toledo: I wasn’t either, but that a lot of guys told me they Gary Jenkins: back heard your story there. Springs Toledo: Yeah, there is. Yeah. They were they were up, they were they were bank robbers. They went for the armor trucks. That was their forte. Very well organized. Very skilled. They were specialized and they would swap off with, winter Hills, sometimes with Southie and South Boston, I should say. South Boston and Somerville would, they were very close, they were very much aligned. They would swap off. I think one of ’em was the brother of a Bruins hockey player. Yeah. Gary Jenkins: Interesting. These guys, they got their connections. I found out more and more after I since I started doing this podcast, how many connections people [00:31:00] had between cities and even within a city connections to regular look like Square John, businessmen and just connections all over the place. It’s Springs Toledo: all over the place. Matter of fact, Joe was Joe was in contact with the guys who escaped from Alcatraz. I couldn’t prove it, but I heard that, he was sending them money and, and supporting them. I pro I didn’t find nearly 50% of what Joe was up to, but that’s more than anybody else. I think before this book, we knew about 2% of what he was up to. Yeah. Gary Jenkins: It was Springs Toledo: pretty guy. Sure. Yeah. He was a footnote in the most of the books. Just a footnote, if that. So Gary Jenkins: that’s the smart one, the one that keeps his head down and keeps out of the papers and everything. Did that, did you talk to John Ano? Springs Toledo: Yes. Yeah. Gary Jenkins: Interesting. Springs Toledo: I did. He was he loved, first thing he said was how much he loved him. All these guys, very serious guys. They’re very powerful guys in the underworld. And when I brought his name up the ones who were close to him, they would say I love that. I love that man. Loved him. They loved and [00:32:00] revered him. Other guys who were not as close to him, but who were very, operatives in the bus world. I bring his name up now, he’s been gone since 1997. And they’d look around like this. And they say, oh gee. So you know, his name is still enough to and matter of fact, I was told early on when I was poking around that I’m poking around in dangerous places and Joe still has friends and you don’t wanna cross these guys, so even now his his shadow still looms, if you will, but I think it approve of what I did because, what I heard is that he’s very honest. He would not want any biographer to pull a pull punches about who and what he was. I didn’t, yeah. But some of his friends warned me. They were, you gotta be careful with this, but I call it bachelor’s privilege. I’m not married, I have no kids. If I end up in a ditch, who cares? So I can take risks. Gary Jenkins: Yeah. That’s some truth. It’s just that last few minutes before you’d done the dish, you go, oh shit, I wish I was anywhere but here. I, Springs Toledo: I would ask to talk to a priest. Let me get a confession. That what you gotta do, Gary Jenkins: you Springs Toledo: know, Gary Jenkins: you’d be like I think it was Tony Citro. Supposedly the story was he [00:33:00] wanted to know if he could say a quick prayer before they did him in, but Springs Toledo: I hope they let him, Gary Jenkins: I don’t know. Steve Fleming, we met, you’d mentioned about Steve Fleming, the Rifleman, who was whitey’s buddy and you, I think you mentioned you had a story about Steve Fleming. Springs Toledo: Steve Fleming was it’s interesting he doesn’t appear too much in the book. One of the things I had to do with this, I had to do my best to keep the names down. One of the a fatal flaw in a whole lot of Boston and Underworld books than any underworld books is there was just 8,000 names. Too many names. There’s too many names. So I, so I mentioned him a few times ’cause you have to, but I’m not focused on Fleming, but I can tell you that Joe was very suspicious of Fleming as early as he was very suspicious of Whitey. He respected him. Fleming was a killer. More of an ambush killer than than a Savage or a guy who took a lot of risks. He was a lot like Whitey, like that. But no, Joe didn’t trust him because. He had a long bid and he got out early, and that’s always a cause for concern among those guys. Why are [00:34:00] you out early? They got a story and the stories backed up by the government. They were already in cahoots. Gary Jenkins: Yeah. Springs Toledo: But with the names, there was one guy, this is an example. He was actually an MDC cop who was part of the Winter Hill gang in the early sixties, and his name was Russ Nicholson. I don’t wanna keep saying Russ Nicholson, the cop. So I shortened it to Russ the cop. Yeah. And then as things went on and the, police department realized that this guy’s involved in the rackets, they forced him to resign. So then I started calling them Rust, the ex cop. Then Rusty ex-cop gets clipped probably by Georgie McLaughlin. He’s dead, so now he’s Rust the dead ex-cop. So I’m trying to be polite to the reader and keep the names down. Gary Jenkins: Interesting. That’s a good idea that I know about that, that people say I love what you did, but there’s too many names. I got confused who was who. So it’s Springs Toledo: yeah, Gary Jenkins: it’s always a problem with these deals. All right, Springs, Toledo. [00:35:00] Let’s see. All of a sudden I like there it is. There you go guys. And guys, I will have your his link to for all his books and the show notes and of course links to my books too, but links to all of these guy, these books. You had some even about John Brown. You wanna go back into little Civil War history? Why check those out too. Guys, thanks so much for coming on the show. Springs Toledo: My pleasure.

Legal filings by Boston Police and ICE paint Alejandro Orrego as a man with a propensity for fighting cops. Orrego sees himself as the victim of two unjust arrests.

This week we are joined by the multi-talented, BOSSED UP & very entertaining Katherine K Nunez of "Tales Of A Latina"! The very proud Weehawken, New Jersey native of Dominican descent pulls up to CWTFB Radio for her first podcast outside of the NJ/NY area ever! The mother of 2 dives in on her story with the help of Charlie MaSheen & Bellez; talking about her acting career, struggling early in life after a teen pregnancy, landing video-vixen roles with Cam'Ron, Ludacris & more! The show also continues with the social misconceptions of Latinas vs Black American Women, a deep dive on Katherine's talk show via YouTube, "Tales Of A Latina" & SO MUCH MORE! Don't miss out on this one! We had a lot of fun recording this and Kathy didn't hold back AT ALL! We also reviewed DaBaby's album "BE MORE GRATEFUL" & East Boston's own Mort Beazy's "Not A Scratch"! Be sure to like, comment, & subscribe to BOTH shows and SUPPORT! TAP INNNNN!!!!!! - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - follow on ig: @CWTFBradio @Charlie.MaSheen @BellezTheGreat @KatherineKNunez CHECK OUT ALL OF OUR CONTENT: www.CWTFB.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Police arrest 15-year-old in East Boston stabbing after he allegedly returns to crime scene for his cellphone, Latest craze: The ultra-thick pancake...bcause it's too much work to just eat a short stack of thin pancakes? Record-setting Big Mac eater chimes in on the new 'Big Arch' burger at McDonald's

Police arrest 15-year-old in East Boston stabbing after he allegedly returns to crime scene for his cellphone, Latest craze: The ultra-thick pancake...bcause it's too much work to just eat a short stack of thin pancakes? Record-setting Big Mac eater chimes in on the new 'Big Arch' burger at McDonald'sSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

VALUE FOR VALUE Thank you to the Bowl After Bowl Episode 430 Producers: Sharky, ChadF, cbrooklyn, Salty_Crayon, Anonymous Podverse User, NetNed, Matt Finlay, Silvie. Boolysteed, ericpp Intro/Outro: Three Chain Links - Rewiring the Mainframe PO Box 410154 Kansas City, MO 64141 FIRST TIME I EVER... Bowlers called in about the First Time They Ever said "yes" to a last-minute road trip. Next week, we want to hear about the First Time YOU Ever been in a studio. TOP THREE 33 Better Business Bureau gives 33 Buc-ee's locations an 'F' rating (YouTube / THV11) Suburban bus operator could face charges after crash leaves 33 injured in Green Bay (WGN TV) Kentucky audit finds state overcharged $33 million in taxes, details mismanagement of funds (WDRB) Mississippi has reported 33 fire deaths so far in 2026; 4 attributed to space heaters (WAPT) Michigan gas prices hit highest point since 2023 after 33-cent surge (The Detroit News / archive) BEHIND THE CURTAIN Rapper Afroman wins lawsuit against police over mocking their 2022 raid in viral music videos (The Associated Press) Supplemental Videos: Afroman case recap (New York Post) Afroman pre-trial banger / Deputy claims Afroman singing about sleeping with his wife caused tremendous pain (@TheFactsDude / Twitter) / Ex-wife says Afroman did not cause her divorce / Lick 'em Low Lisa cries during music video played in court (@OGAfroman Instagram) / Officer Pound Cake testifies (YouTube) AOC spends $19k in campaign cash to psychiatrist known for ketamine therapy (New York Post) Ohio prohibits intoxicating hemp products (Signal Cleveland) Texas to ban smokeable hemp on March 31 (The Texas Tribune) Wisconsin Gov. Evers signs bill allowing police to administer roadside saliva drug tests during impaired driving traffic stops (Urban Milwaukee) METAL MOMENT Tonight, the RevCyberTrucker brings us Nita Strauss and Anita White-Gluz with The Wolf You Feed. Follow along with his antics @SirRevCyberTrucker@noauthority.social ON CHAIN, OFF CHAIN, COCAINE, SHITSTAIN spencer@pay.bowlafterbowl.com archipelago Bernstein predicts Bitcoin bottomed: $150K target as Strategy (MSTR) holds $53.5B in BTC (Bitcoin Magazine) Circle Internet Group tumbles. Why the Clarity Act is crushing crypto stocks. (Barrons) KC Bitcoiners Family Roller Skate Meetup Friday at 6:30 pm FUCK IT, DUDE. LET'S GO BOWLING! He tried to rob 6 banks, police say. His total takings: $605 (Seattle Times) Michigan man charged after making 33 more hang-up calls to 911 (SooToday) Quadruple amputee, professional cornhole player faces murder charges (FOX) Pennsylvania man accused of setting fires to 'kill spiders,' then blaze spread to neighbors (WFMZ) Stand-up comedian diagnosed with terminal cancer travels thousands of miles to try to kill his ex-wife, then dies a day later in the woods (MSN) Russia to refer women who don't want children to psychologists to address declining birth rate (The Journal) Baby born on same time, day as his mom, grandma (Not the Bee) A real possum appears among plush toy animals at an Australian airport gift shop (The Associated Press) Police arrest 15-year-old in East Boston stabbing after he allegedly returns to the scene of the crime for his cellphone (Boston) 2 men accused of fathering hundreds of kids banned from donating sperm in Quebec (CBC)

DJ Pup Dawg Joined by Asha (Roxbury Liaison), and Natalia Benitez Perez, Executive Director of Civic Organizing for the City of Boston. The discussion centers on the "Love Your Block" initiative, an annual citywide cleanup program that has been active for over a decade. Love Your Block Initiative Details Purpose: The initiative, formerly known as "Boston Shines," provides residents with necessary tools—such as trash pickers, bags, mulch, and rakes—to clean and beautify their local communities. 2026 Cleanup Schedule: Friday, April 24: Downtown Boston. Saturday, April 25: Dorchester, Jamaica Plain, Brighton, and South Boston. Saturday, May 2: East Boston, Roxbury, Hyde Park, Roslindale, and Mattapan. Registration: Interested residents and volunteers must sign up by March 30th at 5:00 PM via boston.gov/loveyourblock. Special Edition T-Shirts: This year's volunteer t-shirts will honor the 250th anniversary of American democracy, reflecting Boston’s history as a city of revolutionaries. Community Updates & Reminders Asha encourages residents to use the Boston 311 app to report city concerns like potholes. DJ Pup Dawg and Asha also reflect on a recent St. Patrick's Day event featuring Jaylen Brown and TyLow. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

In this episode of Gangland Wire, I sit down with retired FBI agent Geoff Kelly, a specialist in art theft investigations who inherited one of the most notorious unsolved cases in American history—the 1990 robbery at the Isabella Stewart Gardner Museum. He recently wrote a book about this theft titled 13 Perfect Fugitives: The True Story of Mob, Murder, and the World’s Largest Art Heist. Kelly's law enforcement career began as a New York City transit police officer before transitioning to the FBI. Like many agents, he initially sought violent crime work. Instead, he was assigned to economic crimes before eventually transferring to a violent crime squad. It was there that he encountered the Gardner case—a cold case largely untouched by senior agents at the time. The robbery itself remains extraordinary: two men posing as police officers gained entry to the museum and stole 13 works of art, including masterpieces by Rembrandt. More than three decades later, none of the works have been recovered. Inside the Gardner Heist Geoff explains how art theft is often misunderstood. Popular culture portrays refined, sophisticated criminals orchestrating elaborate capers. The reality, he says, is usually more opportunistic and frequently violent. Art theft often intersects with organized crime, drug trafficking, and even homicide. Massachusetts has a documented history of art-related crimes, and several individuals connected to the Gardner investigation met violent ends. The criminal underworld surrounding stolen art is less about wealthy collectors hiding paintings in private vaults and more about leverage—using artwork as collateral in criminal negotiations. The FBI's Art Crime Evolution Following the 2003 looting of Iraq's National Museum during the Baghdad invasion, the FBI formalized its Art Crime Team. Kelly discusses how intelligence gathering, informants, and international cooperation became central tools in recovering stolen artifacts. He emphasizes that solving art crimes often depends less on forensic breakthroughs and more on human intelligence. Informants remain essential, especially in cases where organized crime overlaps with high-value theft. Kelly also discusses his upcoming book, 13 Perfect Fugitives, which explores the intersections of mobsters, murder, and the illicit art market. Organized Crime and the Reality of Stolen Art Drawing on my own experience working organized crime in Kansas City, I found clear parallels between traditional mob rackets and art theft networks. The same structures—intimidation, secrecy, and violence—apply. Once a painting disappears into criminal circulation, it becomes a liability as much as an asset. Kelly challenges the myth that thieves profit easily from masterpieces. High-profile works are difficult to sell. The black-market art world is volatile and dangerous. In many cases, the artwork becomes bargaining collateral rather than a cash windfall. A Case Still Waiting for Closure More than 30 years later, the Gardner Museum still displays empty frames where the paintings once hung. Kelly remains committed to the idea that public awareness may eventually generate new leads.  The Gardner heist stands as both a cultural tragedy and a criminal mystery—one that continues to intersect with organized crime, violence, and international intrigue. Hit me up on Venmo for a cup of coffee or a shot and a beer @ganglandwire Click here to “buy me a cup of coffee” Subscribe to the website for weekly notifications about updates and other Mob information. To go to the store or make a donation or rent Ballot Theft: Burglary, Murder, Coverup, click here To rent ‘Brothers against Brothers’ or ‘Gangland Wire,’ the documentaries click here.  To purchase one of my books, click here. Transcript [0:00] Hey, you guys, Gary Jenkins back here in studio Gangland Wire. Y’all know me. I’m a retired Kansas City Police Intelligence Unit detective and now podcaster and documentary filmmaker. I have in the studio today… Jeff Kelly, he’s a now-retired FBI agent. He was an expert in recovering stolen artifacts and art pieces. He was involved. He wasn’t involved in the original theft of the Boston art theft, the Isabella Stewart Gardner Museum, but he ended up inheriting that case. So welcome, Jeff. Hi. Thanks, Gary. Nice to be here. And guys, I need to mention this right off the bat. Jeff has a book, 13 Perfect Fugitives, The True Story of the Mob, Murder, and the World’s Largest Art Heist. Be out on Amazon. I’ll have links down below in the show notes if you want to get that book. I think it would be pretty interesting. I was telling Jeff, I just interviewed Joe Ford, the million-dollar detective, the guy that goes after classic cars, and I read that book. I love these kind of caper kind of books and caper crimes. Those are the ones I like the best is the caper crimes. And Jeff is an expert at working caper crimes. And that’s what these are, capers. So Jeff, how did you get into this? Now you came on the FBI. You were a policeman before, I believe. So tell the guys a little bit about yourself and your FBI career. Yeah, I started out with the Metropolitan Transportation Authority Police in New York City. It was a transit cop. I did that for three years. And then I got into the FBI in October of 95. [1:30] And my goal was always, I wanted to work violent crime. That’s what drew me to law enforcement in the first place, working bank robberies and kidnappings and fugitives. I had to do my five years on working economic crime, telemarketing fraud. It was interesting, but not all that exciting. And finally in 2000, I got my transfer to the violent crime squad. And I loved working it. And I did it for my entire career from then on, right up until my retirement in 2024. But back then, art theft was considered a major theft violation, [2:01] and it was worked by the Violent Crime Squad. And so in 2002… My supervisor dumped this old moribund cold case in my lap. It was the Isabella Stewart Gardner Museum heist. [2:15] Nobody wanted it on the squad, so they figured, let’s give it to the new guy. I was ecstatic to get it because I’d heard about it. I went to school in Boston. I went to Boston University and graduated the year before it happened, but I knew about it. [2:28] That’s how I started working this case, this particular case, and then the following year during the U.S., there was a, the U.S. And coalition forces invaded Baghdad in Iraq. And during a 36-hour period, more than 15,000 objects of very, very important cultural history were looted from the National Museum of Iraq. And it’s really one of the most important museums in the world in terms of our shared history. Kind of the cradle of civilization over there in the Tigers and Euphrates River. Yeah, and that was the time when the FBI kind of belatedly realized that there was no art crime team to investigate this. And of course, FBI agents have been working art theft like any other property crime since the beginning of the FBI’s existence, but there was no codified team. So they did a canvas for the team in 2004 and I applied for it because at this point I’d been working the Gardner case for a couple of years and really was fascinated by it and made the team. And so then over the next 20 years, we continued to expand the team both in size and in scope and in our intelligence base and knowledge base. And when I left the Bureau in 2024, it was and still is a tremendous team with a lot of very dedicated and professional agents and professional support. [3:51] Now, guys, if you don’t know about the Isabella Stewart Gardner case, there was a Netflix documentary on it a few years ago. It was an art museum in Boston. [4:01] Two guys showed up. They had Boston police uniforms on, and they got in. They basically, it was an armed robbery, and they took control of the museum. The guards were in there late at night and took these really valuable paintings out. I believe you told me earlier they were Remington paintings. We’ll get into that. And it was a violent crime. It was an armed robbery of paintings, and you told me about other armed robberies of paintings. I think you got into some other armed robberies of paintings. You always think of, as you mentioned before, the Thomas Crown Affair character that goes out and does these sophisticated art thefts. That’s not always true, is it? It’s never that way, but it doesn’t matter. Don’t let the facts get in the way of a good story. Everybody wants to believe that art thefts are pulled off by the Thomas Crown Affairs and these gentlemen thieves repel in through skylights and do all that fancy stuff, put it in their underground lair. That’s just not the way it works. But if you look to art theft. [4:55] Massachusetts really is a cradle of art theft in this country, and it’s very unique. The first armed robbery of a museum occurred in Boston in 1972. It was committed by a guy named Al Monday, who was a prolific art thief. And they stole four pieces from the Worcester Art Museum in central Massachusetts with a gun. They ended up shooting the guard. And one of the pieces that they stole was a Rembrandt called St. Bartholomew. [5:26] And in keeping with the milieu of true art thieves, the paintings were stored on a pig farm just over the state line in Rhode Island. And when this Connecticut safecracker by the name of Chucky Carlo, who was looking at some serious time in prison for some of the crimes that he committed, when he found out that Al Monday had these paintings, he just simply kidnapped Al Monday and stuck a gun in his ribs and said he would kill him if he didn’t give him the paintings. which is no honor among thieves. And Al turned over the paintings, Chucky returned them, and he got a very significant break on his pending jail sentence. Right here in 1972, Boston thieves see Rembrandt as a valuable get-out-of-jail-free card. [6:09] And then if we jump forward three years to 1975, there was a very skilled art thief, really a master thief by the name of Miles Conner. I interviewed Miles for my book. It was very gracious of him to sit down with me for it. And he had robbed or committed a burglary of the Woolworth estate up in Maine, the family, the five and dime family magnets. And he got caught for it because he tried to sell those paintings to an undercover FBI agent. And so he was looking at 12 years in prison for it. And he was out on bail. And he reached out to a family friend who was a state trooper. And he asked him, how can I get away with this one? How can I get out of this? Because he was in serious trouble. The trooper’s response was meant to be hyperbolic. The trooper said, Miles, it’s going to take you a Rembrandt to get out of this one. [6:57] And so Miles said, okay, I’ll go get a Rembrandt. And he got a crew together and they did a daylight smash and grab at the Museum of Fine Arts in Boston, just across the street from the Gardner. And they stole Rembrandt, the girl in a gold-trimmed cloak. [7:12] And he was able to return that painting. Instead of doing 12 years, he did 28 months. And he even managed to, he told me he even managed to get the $10,000 reward in the process. So you have this atmosphere in Massachusetts that Rembrandts are a valuable commodity, right? They can help you out in a jam. And so I think it’s no coincidence that in 1990, when the Gardner Museum heist came down, the Gardner Museum had this array of motion sensors all throughout the museum. It would alert to wherever you went, every gallery, hallway, whatever. [7:49] And we know from these motion sensors that after, as you said, the two guys went in disguised as cops and bluffed their way into the museum, they made a beeline for the Dutch room, which is the room of all things Rembrandt. They stole three Rembrandts. They stole a fourth piece called Landscape with an Obelisk, which was actually by Govard Flink, but it had been misattributed to Rembrandt until the mid 80s. And then they took a large Rembrandt oil-on-panel off the wall and it was recovered the next morning leaning against a piece of furniture. We believe they just overlooked it in the dark. So out of the 13 pieces taken, three were Rembrandt, a fourth was misattributed to Rembrandt, and there was going to be a 14th piece taken, which was also Rembrandt. It definitely falls into that theory that this was going to be a hold-on to these pieces for a while and see if you can use them for a break. [8:48] Interesting. Now, back in the 70s, for example, when somebody would work in an art robbery like that or an art theft, you got your tried and true ways of working a crime. You got to have sources, you got to have witnesses, and hopefully you can get a crime like this. You can get a source that says, hey, this guy, we had a guy in Kansas City that he was a fence for these kinds of guys. He had an antique auction and he took all this stuff and got it somewhere else. So at the time, just use your regular police methods. And what changed over the years as you’ve done this? Yeah, certainly we’ve become much more sophisticated with the techniques that we use. But at the end of the day, it’s always still going to be intelligence. But I found from working my entire career in violent crime, virtually my whole career in violent crime, the sources are crucial. Having a good informant can make and break a case. And working art theft investigations, you’re certainly going to have the same types of fences of informants, fences for stolen property and what they’re hearing about what organized crime guys are doing and what drug guys are doing. But it also opened up a whole new avenue of sources for me as working in art investigations, because now you’ve got pawn shops and gallery owners and auction houses, and they’re in a position to know when not only when stolen artwork is coming in, but also fakes and forgeries. We spoke about this, that. [10:16] Somebody comes in with one valuable piece that would be very difficult for somebody in his or her position to come across one piece like this, let alone a dozen of them. That really points to probably a fake. And so that’s really the key to solving these things is just having a good intelligence base who’s going to let us know about when something comes up that’s either stolen or it’s been forged. [10:43] Brings up a question. In my mind, did you ever work a gallery owner or a gallery [10:48] that then would filter in, knowingly filter in some fakes every once in a while? They couldn’t do it 100% of the time, but you could certainly make some extra money by filtering fakes out of it because many people would get it and they’d never know. Nobody would ever know. Listen, it is a really difficult thing when you’re working these types of crimes because unlike bank robber, you go into a bank and you stick them up with a gun and take them on. It’s not up to the government to be able to prove at trial that you knew that the bank was insured by the FDIC. You went in and you robbed it, you committed the offense. When you’re talking about interstate transportation of stolen property or possession of stolen property, there are what’s called specific intent crimes, meaning you have to prove the element of knowledge. You have to be able to prove that the person knew that that item was stolen. Not that it said it was stolen. and you had to show that they knew it. And that’s a really high hurdle to overcome. And typically what we do to try and prove that specific intent is we’re going to go through. [11:53] Recorded statements made to a source or to an undercover or emails or texts or something that we can show that this person knew that item was stolen. And so we would see that a lot in auction houses and galleries. There’s a lot of willful blindness where a lot of gallery owners and auction houses, they’re going to look the other way because it’s too lucrative to pass up. And in fact, in 2015, the art crime team, once we received information that ISIL or ISIS was using looted cultural property from Syria and Iraq as a form, a viable form of terrorism financing. And we put auction houses and gallery owners on notice in 2015, and we basically told them that if you’re selling objects of cultural patrimony or cultural heritage with a dubious provenance, like a wink and a nod, you may be unwittingly or wittingly funding terrorism. While we never charged anybody with it, hopefully it was an eye-opener that when you’re getting into this world, it’s not a victimless crime. There are very real victims involved. [13:07] And that’s one of the things that really is interesting about working our crime investigations. And I used to get ribbed by my friends who were not on the art crime team about [13:18] where like the wine and cheese squad were raised and everything. But our subjects are far from it. We’re dealing with organized crime, gangs, terrorists. This is no joke. These are serious individuals and the stakes are high. And in the Gardner case, three or four people that we believe were involved in the heist were murdered a year after the Gardner case crime occurred. Yeah, I was just going to go back to that a little bit, as we said before, a little bit like the Lufthansa case. All of a sudden, everybody that was involved in the theft. Started dropping like flies. So tell the guys about that. That is really interesting. [14:00] Yeah. So the two individuals that we believe went into the museum dressed as cops, just a week shy of the one-year anniversary, one of the guys was found dead in his apartment of an acute overdose of cocaine, intravenous. And his family admitted that he used Coke, but they said he was terrified of needles. He was scared of needles. So it really looked to be like a hotshot, an intentional overdose of cocaine. Two weeks later, the other guy who we believe went into the museum with him, his wife reported him missing. And a couple of weeks later, his bullet riddled body was recovered in the trunk of his car out by Logan Airport in East Boston. There was another member of that crew. These were all part of the same crew. This Carmelo Merlino, who was a Boston mobster, had an auto shop down in the Dorchester section of Boston. Another member of his crew, a guy named Bobby, six weeks after the heist, he brought in, he visited a jeweler in the downtown crossing jewelry district in Boston. He came in with this object and he unwrapped it. It was an eagle. [15:03] It was the finial from the Napoleonic flag that was stolen in the Gardner heist. And he asked the jeweler, how much is this thing worth? And the jeweler looked at it and he said, it’s worth nothing. Because he immediately recognized it as one of the people that had been stolen six weeks earlier from the Gardner heist. And then a few months later, Bobby was stabbed to death and nearly decapitated on the front porch of his house. And the responding police saw that his house had been broken into and ransacked like his killers had been looking for something. There was a fourth guy, Jimmy, who bragged to his girlfriend a few months after the heist that he had a couple of pieces from the Gardner Museum hidden in his attic. [15:47] And in February of 1990, 11 months after the heist, he was executed on his front porch in what the local police called a mob hit. So, yeah, these are the types of crimes that have a tendency to have a chilling effect on anybody who harbors any aspirations to come forward with information. Yeah, and we talked earlier a little bit about, like, the crime itself, and the statute of limitations is up on that, what you said, and the crime itself, but how we talked a little bit and explained to them about how this could be part of a RICO case. And you’ve got the murders and you’ve got the actual theft and whatever they did with the paintings, then maybe you could get over after a Bob boss as a Rico case. Tell the guys a little bit about doing that. Yeah. [16:32] I’ve heard it so many times in more than two decades that I worked the case and people would say, geez, why don’t people come forward? They’re just paintings. There are so many times they’re just paintings. They’re like, yeah, they are, but there’s two things about that. Number one, there’s some dead bodies on these paintings, three or four, and that there’s no statute of limitations for murder. And so if you implicate yourself in the theft or you implicate yourself in possessing or transporting these paintings at any time, the fear is that you’re then implicating yourself in a homicide. And the other aspect of this, which I think has a chilling effect, is the fact that transportation of stolen property is one of the predicate acts for RICO, racketeering influence corrupt organization case. And RICO is basically, Gary, is basically an entire organization is corrupt. Yeah. There’s no legitimate purpose. It’s what we think about the mob and the [17:27] FBI has taken down the mob in the past. So if you implicate yourself in stolen property and you’re part of organized crime, that’s one of the predicate acts for a RICO. And that’s basically life sentences. And so one of my goals in the years and years that I worked in this case was to try and convince people that you could come forward with information and the U S attorney’s offices, whether it’s up in Boston or new Haven or Philadelphia. [17:58] Would be willing to figure out a way to get the paintings back with immunity from prosecution for a RICO case. Look, that’s a high hurdle. That’s a high hurdle to convince somebody that if you come forward, you’re not going to get charged and you’re eligible for millions of dollars in reward. That’s a tough bill to swallow, but it’s the truth. I’m retired from the FBI now. I can tell you that it was, it’s a, it was, and still is a bona fide offer. And that’s one of the goals that I’ve always tried to impress on anyone is the opportunity to become a millionaire without going to jail. There you go, Jeff. Can you, now you’re not with the Bureau anymore. Can you go out, if you could go out and find them and bring them in, could you collect that reward? I would certainly hope so. [18:48] I can’t tell you how many of my friends thought that I had some of these paintings stashed in my basement. Waiting for retirement to go turn them in the next day. I think half the guys I worked with were expecting to see me pull into the parking lot of the FBI. [19:01] Big package, but no. But yeah, I suppose I could. By this point, I can tell you the amount of my very being that I put into this case over two days. Yeah. I just would love to see these paintings go back just because they need to be back at the museum. That’s where they belong. Now, these crimes, they seem, You said there’s a lot of murders attached to this. They seem a little boring. Did you have any exciting moments trying to pop anybody or do any surveillances? I know we did a big surveillance of a bunch of junkies that were going around stealing from small museums around the Midwest. And we follow them here in Kansas City. And they would have been pretty exciting had we had a confrontation with them. Did you have any exciting moments in this? It actually was a fascinating case. And for the first, there’s the really boring aspects of this job and tedious aspects. And I would say that in my, two decades working this case, I probably did, I don’t know, 50, 60, 70 consent searches, searching in attics and basements and crawling through crawl spaces and just getting sweaty and covered in cobwebs. But the break in the case for me came in 2009 when one of the guys who was part of Merlino’s crew who was deceased, his niece came forward to me and told me that the paintings. Some of them had been hidden up in this guy’s hide at his house up in Maine. I went up to Maine with Anthony Amore, who’s the director of security for the Gardner Museum. We worked on this case together for years. [20:29] And then we found that hide. And then we interviewed, right from there, we went and interviewed Guarenti. That’s the guy, Bobby Guarenti. We interviewed his widow and she broke down and admitted that he once showed her the paintings and she gave them to a guy down in Connecticut. And we identified that guy and we interviewed him. My name is Bobby Gentile. He’s a made member of the Philly Mob. He got straightened out with his crew back in the late 90s. [20:54] And he refused to cooperate. And then that’s where we really just started getting, using a lot of ingenuity to try and break it. And an agent down in the New Haven office, a guy by the name of Jamie Lawton, he joined our team and we started working this case. And he had a source who knew Gentile, Bobby Gentile, and the source started buying drugs from Gentile. Ah, there we go. We ended up arresting Gentile and we did a search warrant at his house. And it was crazy. Like we recovered, I want to say seven handguns, loaded handguns lying all over the place. He had a pump action shotgun hanging by the front door. He had high explosives. We had to evacuate the house and call him the bomb squad. But the interesting thing was he had the March 19th, 1990 edition of the Boston Herald with headlines about the Gardner heist and tucked inside that newspaper was a handwritten list of all the stolen items. With what looked like their black market values. This is in the house of a guy who swore up and down that he’d never heard of the Gardner Museum. And we were able to figure out who wrote the list. It was written by none other than Al Monday, who’s the guy that did the first armed robbery of a museum, of a Rembrandt. And we interviewed him and he told us that he wrote that list for Bobby Gentile and his buddy up in Maine, Bobby Garanti, because they had a buyer for the paintings and they wanted to know what they were worth. [22:24] So yeah, and then Gentile took 30 months. [22:28] He wouldn’t cooperate. And while he was incarcerated, we turned two of his closest friends to becoming sources. And so when he got out of prison in February or April of 2014, they started talking to him and talked about the gardener and they said they might know somebody who’d want to buy him. That’s how we then introduced an undercover agent. Gentile was introduced to Tony, this undercover FBI agent. Over six months, they had long talks about selling the paintings. Unfortunately, before Gentile would sell the paintings, he wanted to do a drug deal first, which we couldn’t allow to happen. We can’t let drugs walk on the street. So we had to take it down. And although we’d seized all these guns from Gentile back in 2012, he told the sources the FBI didn’t get all of his guns. Because of that disturbing comment, one of the sources asked Gentile if he could buy a gun for him. And Gentile sold him a loaded 38. So we arrested him again. And he still refused to cooperate. I don’t respect what he did for a living or a lot of the things that he did, but you do have to respect his adherence to his values. However, misguided they may have been, he took the code of omerta, the code of silence to heart, and he took it to his grave. He died, I think, in 2021 after going to prison a second time. [23:50] While we never got any paintings back, it was a tremendous ride, and I’m confident they will come back. It’s just going to be a question of when. Yeah, that kind of brings up the question that you hear people speculate. Did you ever run across this? Is there actually any rich old guys or an Arab sheik or somebody that buys stuff like this and then really keeps it and never shows it to anybody? Does that unicorn really exist? everybody wants that to be true i know virtually it’s not yeah there’s there’s never been a case of some wealthy what we call the doctor no theory some some reclusive billionaire with his underground lair filled with all the illicit stolen treasures of the world yeah that’s it’s never happened yeah i guess you never say never but but no look the majority statistically about three-quarters of everyone that collects art in this country does it for, and I assume it’s probably worldwide, does it for the investment potential. There’s a lot of money to be made in collecting art. It rarely, if ever, drops in value. So that’s why people collect art. If there’s somebody who has a particular piece that they want so badly that they’re going to commission its theft, it’s more the stuff of Hollywood. It could happen, but we’ve never seen that happen yet. Interesting. [25:14] We did have one case here where we had a medical doctor and he had it on the wall of his house. And it was, I believe it was a Western artist named Remington that these junkies stole out of Omaha. But it was such a minor piece that he could show it to anybody and they wouldn’t. They would say, oh, that’s cool. You got a Remington. [25:30] There’s plenty of those around. And he could afford a real deal Remington anyhow. So it wasn’t that big a deal. And that’s really what it comes down to is that art, high-end art does get stolen. It gets stolen quite often. The art market is about $60 billion, and the FBI, we estimated about $6 to $8 billion of that is illicit, whether it’s theft or fakes and forgeries. It’s a tremendous market, but it’s mostly second and third tier items. [26:02] Really valuable, well-known pieces. They do get stolen, but that’s the easy part. The easy part is stealing it. The hard part is monetizing it. That’s why you very rarely see recidivism among art thieves, high-end art thieves, because you do it once, and now you’re stuck with the thing. It’s easier to steal something else. You got to go out and boost fur coats and stuff to make a living. Exactly. Do a jewelry store robbery down there and make a living. And that’s exactly the point. That’s why you’re seeing a sea change in terms of art thefts, museum thefts. The Louvre was a great example of that. Dresden green vault robbery where 100 million euros in gems were stolen back in 2019 yeah. [26:45] Gems and jewelry, it can be broken down. It’s going to greatly diminish their value, but you can recut a gem. You can melt down the setting. You can monetize it for a greatly diminished value, but at least you can monetize it. You can’t cut up a Rembrandt into smaller pieces. [27:02] It’s only valuable as a whole complete piece. Yeah. I’m just thinking about that. We got a couple of guys, Jerry Scalise and Art Rachel in Chicago, flew to London, robbed a really valuable piece, the Lady Churchill’s diamond or something, I don’t remember, but really valuable piece and mailed it to somebody on their way to the airport and then got caught when they got back to Chicago and brought back to London and did 14 years in England and they never gave up that piece and nobody could, it never appeared anywhere, but it was just cut up and they didn’t make hardly any money off of it. Yeah. Look, there’s a, there’s much more profitable ways to. Yeah. To make an illicit living than stealing high-end artwork, but it does still get stolen. And that’s one of the cruel ironies when you’re talking about art theft is if somebody has a $20,000 piece of jewelry or a very expensive watch, they’re most likely going to lock it up in a safe in their bedroom or something. But you have a $10 million piece of artwork, you probably got it on the mantle. You’ve got it over the fireplace or in the front foyer of your house and probably doesn’t have a passive alarm system protecting it or security screws to keep it from being taken off the wall because people want to show it off. Yeah. It’s way too enticing. [28:24] Really? So, yes, you need to keep the word out there and keep this in people’s minds. And I’m sure the museum tries to do this in some ways in order, hopefully, that maybe somebody will say, oh. Yeah. [28:38] I think I saw that somewhere in this news program or on this podcast. [28:42] I’ll put some pictures on the podcast when I end up editing this. No, please do, Kerry. And that’s the thing. That’s the basis for the title of my book is it really is a fugitive investigation. And that’s how I work this case is fugitives and perfect fugitives because they’re not like their human counterparts. They’re not going to get tripped up on the silly things that we need to do as human beings, getting a driver’s license or whatnot. Yeah. [29:09] And so that’s how I worked the case. The FBI was really, I was always impressed with the FBI’s support that they gave me on this investigation. We did billboard campaigns and social media and a lot of things to get these images out there to the public, hoping it might resonate with somebody. And that’s really my goal for this book. I felt it should be written. I felt it’s an important case. Certainly, it’s something that I wanted to write about. It’s something that’s very important to me. [29:42] But it’s yet another attempt to apprehend these fugitives. And I’m hopeful that somebody, it might resonate with somebody. Somebody’s going to see something. And there’s so much disinformation and misinformation that’s out there in the media about this case. People are endlessly, all these armchair detectives, and I don’t say it in a deprecating way. Good for them. Work as hard as you can. But if you want to work this case from your armchair, great. but you should be going off accurate information because there’s a lot of bad information that’s out there on the internet. And if you want to help out, if you want to collect that $10 million reward, great, but you should be going off the most accurate factual information that’s available. Yeah. And you probably ought to go down to the deep seamy underbelly of Philadelphia or Boston or somewhere and get involved with a mob and then work your way up and make different cocaine deals and everything. And eventually you might be trusted enough that some might say, oh yeah, I’ve got those in this basement. I would suggest there’s better hobbies. [30:47] That could be hazardous to your health. I wouldn’t recommend it. Yes, it could. All right. Jeffrey Kelly, the book is 13 Perfect Tuesdays. Those are the paintings that were stolen that you’ll see on the podcast on the YouTube channel. The true story of the mob, murder, and the world’s largest art heist. Jeffrey, thanks so much for coming on to tell us about this. Thanks, Gary. Thanks for having me.

WBZ News Radio's James Rojas reporting. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Ever wondered how a video game writer handles the "Kobayashi Maru" of storytelling? Dan Martin (Writer, Star Trek: Resurgence) joins us to reveal how Telltale-style branching narratives are built and why Riker makes the perfect Captain. In this episode of Continuing Conversations, Michael and Jim sit down with Dan Martin to discuss the challenges of writing for a beloved IP like Star Trek. Dan breaks down the "Ludo-narrative dissonance" in game design, shares stories from the Resurgence writer's room, and explains why Spock, Kirk, and McCoy are the ultimate model for video game choices. [Key Topics] 00:00 - Intro: Writing for the 24th Century 04:15 - Why Riker should have been a Commodore hunting the Borg 08:30 - The secret to Spock's voice: It's an East Boston accent? 13:45 - How "Beany" tools manage thousands of script pages 23:10 - Ludo-Narrative Dissonance: When story fights gameplay 26:00 - AI in creative writing: Why Dan isn't worried [Links & Resources] Dan Martin: DanMartinMedia.com Michael Dismuke: MichaelDismuke.com #StarTrek #StarTrekResurgence #GameDesign #NarrativeDesign #StarTrekAdventures #SciFiWriting https://linktr.ee/studiotembo

Kai Lau Quan is one of the best basketball players in the state of Massachusetts. We had him on the podcast three years ago as a freshman, who was clutch in countless games he played in at the Varsity level. Three years later at East Boston high school, Kai is averaging 26 points a game in the early season. There are not many more kids than Kai at the high school level who have hit as many buzzer beaters or game winning free throws in clutch moments. Check out this episode, it promises to be a good one!

Nantucket Lightship LV-112. By Arnold Reinhold, Creative Commons license. Today we look back at an interview that was first heard in October 2020. Our guest is Bob Mannino, founder and president of the United States Lightship Museum. The USLM is the steward of the Nantucket Lightship LV-112, the largest lightship ever built in the United States. Bob Mannino The Nantucket South Shoals were a great hazard to shipping, and a lightship was first stationed at the Shoals in 1854. The last vessel to serve there was the LV-112, built in 1936. Its position was 50 miles southeast of Nantucket Island and 100 miles from the U.S. mainland. The LV-112 was decommissioned in 1975 and today it serves as a floating museum in East Boston, Massachusetts. Bob Mannino has been involved for many years in historic preservation and related educational programs, maritime and non-maritime.

Massachusetts rent prices are on the rise, Boston police investigate a deadly shooting in East Boston, and music lovers find out who they've been listening to this year. Stay in "The Loop" with WBZ NewsRadio.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

November 26 marks three years since Reina Carolina Morales Rojas disappeared after getting into a car in East Boston, Massachusetts. She was later dropped off in nearby Somerville and that was the last time anyone saw or heard from her.Despite being reported missing soon after, information about her disappearance didn't reach the public for nearly two months. It was only after community advocates spoke out that her story began to get the attention it deserved.Today, Reina Carolina Morales Rojas is still missing. There have been no new developments in her case, and her family – who once spoke to her every day – continue to wait and hope for answers. As we mark the anniversary of her disappearance, we're re-releasing this episode to renew attention on her story, to keep her name in the public eye, and to remind listeners that she is still out there somewhere. If you have knowledge that could help bring Reina home, please contact the Massachusetts State Police assigned to the Middlesex District Attorney's Office at (781) 897-6600. Anyone with information regarding her whereabouts is advised to contact 911 or A-7 Detectives at (617) 343-4324. If you would prefer to share information anonymously you can do so by calling the CrimeStoppers Tip Line at 1-800-494-TIPS or by texting the word 'TIP' to CRIME (27463).View source material and photos for this episode at: darkdowneast.com/stillmissing-reinarojas Dark Downeast is an Audiochuck and Kylie Media production hosted by Kylie Low.Follow @darkdowneast on Instagram, Facebook, and TikTokTo suggest a case visit darkdowneast.com/submit-case  Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Good Vibe Tribe: East Boston Soup Kitchen full 297 Fri, 14 Nov 2025 14:06:12 +0000 w6o306BFtlbHh6C7I4v3dmOIxJ2Nf9DP latest,wwbx,society & culture Karson & Kennedy latest,wwbx,society & culture Good Vibe Tribe: East Boston Soup Kitchen Karson & Kennedy are honest and open about the most intimate details of their personal lives. The show is fast paced and will have you laughing until it hurts one minute and then wiping tears away from your eyes the next. Some of K&K’s most popular features are Can’t Beat Kennedy, What Did Barrett Say, and The Dirty on the 30! 2024 © 2021 Audacy, Inc. Society & Culture False https://player.amperwavepodcasting.com?feed-link=ht

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Community builder and Boys & Girls Clubs of Boston President and CEO Robert Lewis Jr. shares how growing up in East Boston public housing, surviving a firebombing during the busing crisis, and being lifted by mentors shaped his life's mission to unite people and invest in youth as Boston's future talent. We talk assets over deficits, redefining “poor,” belonging, narrative, and how adults can listen, love, and create real opportunity.   Key takeaways Belonging beats scarcity. Community, friendships, and safety redefine what “poor” feels like. Lead with assets. Stop deficit language. See young people as talent and invest accordingly. Turn pain into purpose. Robert's 16-year-old promise fuels a lifetime of bridge-building. Adults must shift. Listen more, partner more, and stop “fixing” kids. Define your narrative. Do not let others write your story.   Connect with Robert Boys & Girls Clubs of Boston: https://www.bgcb.org/ BGCB waives membership fees for 2025–2026: https://www.bgcb.org/blog/boys-girls-clubs-of-boston-waives-membership-fees-for-2025-2026-school-year/ LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/robert-lewis-jr-0bb0931a2/

Ever feel like you had to start over from zero? I sit down with writer and teacher Peter William Murphy, an Irish expat who rebuilt after a family business collapse, a serious injury, and a move to Reunion Island that reset his path. I wanted to understand what it really takes to choose growth when life gets loud, and Peter shows us how clear decisions, steady practice, and honest support can open new doors. We talk about the power of owning your choices, moving through anxiety, and asking for help before pride gets in the way. Peter explains how he built Peak English to help students raise their IELTS scores and change their futures. We get into how online teaching actually works when you design it with care, why in-person connection still matters, and how writing became a tool for clarity, confidence, and service. What I love most in this conversation is Peter's calm style of resilience. It is not flashy. It is daily. If you are starting over, switching careers, or simply trying to make your next decision with intention, you will hear practical steps you can use right away. I think you will walk away encouraged, with a clearer view of what steady progress looks like and how to keep going when the ground shifts under your feet.   Highlights:   00:10 – Meet the guest and set the theme of choosing growth over comfort. 01:12 – Hear how a family hospitality legacy shaped early values and work ethic. 02:25 – Learn how the 2008 crash ended the bar and pushed a search for a new path. 07:37 – See why a one-way ticket to Reunion Island became a turning point. 10:11 – Follow the move into teaching without a degree and the first classroom wins. 14:20 – Pick up online teaching tactics like gamification and lesson design. 15:56 – Understand imposter syndrome and the pivot into writing and Peak English. 21:16 – Get a clear take on when online learning works and when it does not. 28:38 – Compare virtual vs. in-person speaking for connection and impact. 32:41 – Learn Peak English's mission to make IELTS success more accessible. 46:32 – Try a simple decision tool: write pros and cons and choose with intent. 54:55 – Hear the advice to younger self: talk to someone sooner and keep going   About the Guest:   Peter William Murphy is an Irish writer, educator, and host whose path has been anything but conventional. Raised in a small family-run hotel on Ireland's west coast, Peter immigrated to America following the hotel's closure, attending school there before returning home to rediscover his Irish roots—and a deep love for sport. But beneath the rugby and soccer fields, a creative instinct stirred.   When the 2008 crash brought down his family's business for a second time, Peter booked a one-way ticket to an island off the coast of Madagascar with just €20 and no job prospects. After a brief period of sleeping rough, he was helped by strangers who offered support without judgment—a lesson in quiet empathy that never left him.   Peter made his name on Medium, where he was curated 39 times for his memoir-style essays on travel and the lessons learned along the way, before pivoting to sharp, comedic takes on current affairs. Notable among his growing body of work are original characters like Jack Hennessy, a wry Irish journalist with a nose for trouble, and the Rick and Morty-inspired duo, Peta and Freeman—two chaotic, absurdist voices that serve as both satire and self-reflection. He now splits his creative focus between personal essays, humor writing, and his new livestream comedy podcast, The Peter and Philip Show, which he co-hosts with author Philip Ogley and which is gaining a mini-cult following on Substack. Peter is currently working on a book loosely inspired by his global misadventures, missteps, and the redemptive power of human connection.   Some of Peter's creative and personal heroes include Hunter S. Thompson, Ernest Hemingway, Matt Stone and Trey Parker, as well as his mother, father, and brother—who continue to inspire his voice, values, and pursuit of honest storytelling.   Peter is currently developing the Peta and Freeman series into a comic and is halfway through writing his first novel, The Red Beach in Paradise, which tells the story of his time on Réunion Island through the fictional lens of Jack Hennessy. While Peter still teaches full-time with his own private students, he is also working on opening an online school to help students prepare for exams and gain university admission across Europe. Every cent he earns from his writing goes directly toward making that school a reality.   Ways to connect with Peter:   My GoFundMe to fund the school: Link here Peak English Instagram account: Link here Peak English TikTok: Link here My substack that contains writing and podcasts: Link here My Medium Account: Link here     About the Host:   Michael Hingson is a New York Times best-selling author, international lecturer, and Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe. Michael, blind since birth, survived the 9/11 attacks with the help of his guide dog Roselle. This story is the subject of his best-selling book, Thunder Dog.   Michael gives over 100 presentations around the world each year speaking to influential groups such as Exxon Mobile, AT&T, Federal Express, Scripps College, Rutgers University, Children's Hospital, and the American Red Cross just to name a few. He is Ambassador for the National Braille Literacy Campaign for the National Federation of the Blind and also serves as Ambassador for the American Humane Association's 2012 Hero Dog Awards.   https://michaelhingson.com https://www.facebook.com/michael.hingson.author.speaker/ https://twitter.com/mhingson https://www.youtube.com/user/mhingson https://www.linkedin.com/in/michaelhingson/   accessiBe Links https://accessibe.com/ https://www.youtube.com/c/accessiBe https://www.linkedin.com/company/accessibe/mycompany/ https://www.facebook.com/accessibe/       Thanks for listening!   Thanks so much for listening to our podcast! If you enjoyed this episode and think that others could benefit from listening, please share it using the social media buttons on this page. Do you have some feedback or questions about this episode? Leave a comment in the section below!   Subscribe to the podcast   If you would like to get automatic updates of new podcast episodes, you can subscribe to the podcast on Apple Podcasts or Stitcher. You can subscribe in your favorite podcast app. You can also support our podcast through our tip jar https://tips.pinecast.com/jar/unstoppable-mindset .   Leave us an Apple Podcasts review   Ratings and reviews from our listeners are extremely valuable to us and greatly appreciated. They help our podcast rank higher on Apple Podcasts, which exposes our show to more awesome listeners like you. If you have a minute, please leave an honest review on Apple Podcasts.       Transcription Notes:   Michael Hingson ** 00:00 Access Cast and accessiBe Initiative presents Unstoppable Mindset. The podcast where inclusion, diversity and the unexpected meet. Hi, I'm Michael Hingson, Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe and the author of the number one New York Times bestselling book, Thunder dog, the story of a blind man, his guide dog and the triumph of trust. Thanks for joining me on my podcast as we explore our own blinding fears of inclusion unacceptance and our resistance to change. We will discover the idea that no matter the situation, or the people we encounter, our own fears, and prejudices often are our strongest barriers to moving forward. The unstoppable mindset podcast is sponsored by accessiBe, that's a c c e s s i capital B e. Visit www.accessibe.com to learn how you can make your website accessible for persons with disabilities. And to help make the internet fully inclusive by the year 2025. Glad you dropped by we're happy to meet you and to have you here with us.   Michael Hingson ** 01:20 Hi, everyone. Welcome wherever you happen to be to unstoppable mindset where inclusion, diversity and the unexpected meet. And today, I think we're mostly going to get to do the unexpected, which is anything that doesn't have to do with inclusion or diversity. Peter Murphy, or Peter William Murphy, as he refers to himself in all the emails that he sends to me, is a writer. He has been a teacher, has an interesting story, I think, all the way around, and I'm not going to tell it, because it's more fun to listen to him tell it, and we'll see what we can learn from it and how we progress. So anyway, Peter, I want to welcome you to unstoppable mindset. We're really glad you're here.   Peter William Murphy ** 02:00 Thank you so much for having me. I really appreciate it.   Michael Hingson ** 02:03 And although Peter is Irish, he's in Turkey today, or he's he's over there, so he does move around, as you're going to learn in the course of this next hour or so. So why don't we start, why don't you tell us, kind of about the early Peter, growing up and so on.   Peter William Murphy ** 02:19 Um, well, I'm from truly, county Terry in Ireland, beautiful small town in the west coast, the Southwest we I come from a family of Hoteliers and publicans. My great grand Well, yeah, my great grandfather had the Meadowlands hotel in Chile, and then passed to my grandfather. But then after that, my father decided to open up his own bar. And that's kind of where after growing up, you know, around the hotel and, you know, seeing all the customers talking to people, very social kind of atmosphere, but unfortunately, it closed down. We had to move to America, back to Ireland. I attended Glendale Abbey school in County Limerick and yeah, I had a great upbringing, great family, but unfortunately, I never really liked school, if I'm be honest with you, which is a strange thing for a teacher today, I did not do well in school. I did just okay. But after the economic crash in 2008 Unfortunately, our family business closed down, so I had to try and find my own path. It was a little bit different than Ireland and I took off, got myself a teaching cert, and went to Reunion Island. And from there, my story kind of took off, and it's kind of where I learned a lot of my lessons. And after that, I just kept on going and didn't stop.   Michael Hingson ** 03:59 So why did the family business closed down the first time.   Peter William Murphy ** 04:04 The first time was because my grandfather basically needed a retirement, and he sold the hotel. And then my father then decided to open up his own bar, and just rising then 10 years later, that closed down during in 2011 I think there is a big economic crash in Ireland, rents went up. People weren't eating or socializing like they were, and through no fault of RL, it was just time to close the doors, which was a pity, because name of the bar was wooly Darcy's. It was a fantastic bar, very social, no televisions, very traditional, and yeah, so we all kind of had to go off and find other ways. And, you know, figure out who we are without, say, bars or. Hells or general hospitality and so kind of, yeah, right.   Michael Hingson ** 05:06 Well, so what? What was the reason for commuting or immigrating all the way to America after that?   Peter William Murphy ** 05:14 Well, we immigrated to America after   Michael Hingson ** 05:17 the hotel, yeah, after the hotel closed, right?   Peter William Murphy ** 05:21 Yeah, that was in 1998 and we were there for maybe two years, I believe, I'm not sure, and went to school there. My father worked in summers pubs, which is owned by my uncle in Boston, and then he made enough money to come back to Ireland in 2000 and open up his own bar. But yeah, it's just,   Michael Hingson ** 05:49 why America? Why America? When the hotel closed, half   Peter William Murphy ** 05:53 our family live over there, so my mom's side of the family live in America. Yeah, okay,   Michael Hingson ** 05:59 well, that makes it a little bit more logical that you would you would consider doing that.   Peter William Murphy ** 06:05 Oh, I loved it, Michael. I After, after two weeks, I was no longer Irish. I was playing baseball, eating pizza. I good American accent. I loved America, I   Michael Hingson ** 06:17 must say now, so are you in the Boston area?   Peter William Murphy ** 06:21 Yeah, we lived in West Roxbury, okay, just outside the city.   Michael Hingson ** 06:26 I lived in Winthrop Massachusetts, which is by East Boston, for three years. Very nice. So I never really got a Boston accent, but I do know how to say things like, pack your kind of have a yacht, you know? I can, I can still do it. Great accent, actually, but that's lovely. But I enjoyed being in Boston and just being around all the history. It's pretty, pretty amazing. But then you move back to Ireland, so that worked out, and he started a bar, and then you did that. So when, when that closed, and then you left again? Why did you leave again?   Peter William Murphy ** 07:06 Uh, basically, um, it feels difficult, kind of speaking about publicly, but I, I was kind of Joe there's, and I say that because there are people out there with bigger problems than me like I was a rugby player and the son of a publican. So for my formative years, my identity, for me at least, was kind of set. I was either going to be a rugby player or I was going to work in a bar or go into hotel management or something like that, but I had a pretty horrific leg injury during rugby training, and I suffered a few blows to the head, and then the bar closed down, so it was like one year you kind of had it all figured out. And then going into university as a young man, I had nothing. I could barely really walk I my family identity was gone. We're in the midst of a economic crash, a depression, and then I kind of developed my own sort of depression, but I, at the time, I didn't know it was depression. It's only Lacher that, when I spoke about it to professional that I kind of, we kind of spoke through and just said, Yeah, that's what it was. So I kind of, I wouldn't say, lied to my parents, but I told my mom, who's listening? Hi, Mom, I love you that I got a job in France, and I'd gotten an English certificate, and I didn't want to do University. I wanted to take a year out because I just couldn't handle it. Um, so, you know, I thought solving my problems would, you know, going away would solve my problems. So I there was no job in France. In fact, I wasn't going to France. I booked a one way ticket to Reunion Island, which is an island often called to the Madagascar in the Indian Ocean.   Michael Hingson ** 09:22 So why there? Why there? Because my friend   Peter William Murphy ** 09:26 was there, and he was there getting University credits for his degree. And, you know, back then, I wasn't a very good listener. I was a bit silly. I'm sure he told me all the details, but I just, I just heard son see maybe a job, and it's not and it's not Ireland, you know, it's not gray, it's not depressed. People aren't on social welfare. Let's, let's go. So I booked a one way ticket with what remained in my savings. And blew over there. And Michael, I'm going to be honest with you, when I landed at the airport in fentanyl, and I was hit with the hot Island air, and I could see it the volcano and, you know, the blue ocean surrounding me, I immediately regretted my decision. I want to go home, but I couldn't, because I had no money to buy a return ticket. So then the kind of Island Adventure kind of started, and yeah, I was stuck there for two years trying to get home.   Michael Hingson ** 10:34 Did you ever kind of make peace with all that and decide that maybe it wasn't such a bad place?   Peter William Murphy ** 10:40 Yeah, I, I, I kind of, because I'm a storyteller. I love writing, so I'm good at, kind of, you know, I wouldn't say I think all writers are good at, you know, giving dramatic effect. You know, maybe there, there's instead of one shark, there's five sharks. Instead of a storm, it's a cyclone. But when I would tell people about it, I would say it was difficult, but looking back at it now, it was probably the best thing I ever did, just taking that leap and going for it.   Michael Hingson ** 11:19 Did you ever finish in going to university? Or did you ever   Peter William Murphy ** 11:23 No, I just kept going. Kept going, kept going. I I got a job teaching English at a course. A lady by the name of Daniela from Angola gave me my first ever job, and you know, we hit it off. And this is back in 2011 or 12. I After about six or seven months working with her, so all the kids love me, the students love me. I learned a lot about her kind of holistic approach to education and teaching, and we were speaking in her kitchen one day, and she says, okay, when all this is over, what are you going to do? And I said, Well, I'm going to try and open up my own school. And she seemed surprised, but yeah, over 1310, or 11 years later, I'm not sure that's exactly what I'm trying to do now, is open up my own school.   Michael Hingson ** 12:21 Tell   Peter William Murphy ** 12:22 me about the school. Well, my wife, well, I'll go back a little bit. When I finally built up enough money to fly home, I got a job working with a man from America, actually teaching students in Cork. And I said I wasn't ready to go back to university just yet. I'd been in university for three years before I left, and it just something wasn't clicking with me. I'm an intelligent enough person, but in university just something, it just wasn't clicking. So I've decided to, you know, go to Turkey, simply because it was, you know, the closest. It wasn't like France, which is familiar, and it wasn't like, you know, far away, like China or somewhere like that. So I went there and got a job. But within six months, I think I landed a very, very good job at the top private school there, and they knew that I didn't have a degree. They just knew that I had selfless certificates and TEFL and other English certificates. But they have about 60 campuses in Turkey, and they gave me, and one of them is a university in Istanbul. So I was given a lot of education. By then, I was kind of a teacher for 15th. I observed, if I was doing a lesson, I'd be observed lots of seminars, getting more certificates, learning more and more. And you know that as time went on, I just kind of became Mr. Murphy, you know what I mean? I became a teacher, kind of, I proved myself, and just my students started getting good results. The parents were very fond of me. My colleagues were fond of me, my boss, my principal was fond of me. So I went from kind of not really having any identity, not knowing what I was doing, to kind of having it. So I stayed working in this big school for eight years, and to get back to kind of your question on the degree and the school i i was chosen by them to give a talk in Istanbul to all my peers on online methodology and how I help kids. Do you know? With gamifications, using the right websites for them, things like this, I slowly became very adept at, and they asked me to do it the second year. And then I got offered by Pierce in Turkey, which is an educational publishing company, and to do seminars on their behalf. And then this is, it was the first time since I left Ireland. This was in 2002 or three where I began to have imposter syndrome, where I was like, Okay, I know I'm good, but am I better than the people who I'm, who I'm speaking to, you know, and I raised this with the person who gave me the opportunity, and he said, Everyone feels, feels this way, you know. But I couldn't shake it, so I decided to in 2023 to step back from teaching, and I told my principal that I'm going to take some time away from it, and I became a writer on medium, and my writing on medium then took off. I started making a lot of money, and I found myself in this little hole where everything I was I was trying, was working for me, but it still didn't feel like something that I could 100% stick with well, which is why I started writing the book, and then it's why my wife and I decided to open up our own course, which will be a methodology, kind of created by the two of us, a curriculum, curriculum created by the two of us, which will have third party eyes who will sign off on it, and it's called Peak English, and we'll take it from there. So that's kind of my long answer to your very simple question.   Michael Hingson ** 17:05 Sorry, Kay, that's fine. Going back to when you went to Reunion Island. Do you think there was something deeper than just escaping from Ireland and the life you had, or you think it was just that simple?   Peter William Murphy ** 17:24 Um, yeah, it's strange, because I have a great relationship. My brother, my father and my mother were all very close. But I, I think, I think I became afraid of life, you know, because, you know, my father's my hero, of course, and he's a well respected man in the community. He He was awarded, I can't remember the name of the award, but basically, best host of the Year, Best host in Ireland last year by the hospitality board in the country. And when I saw what the economic crash did to him, it didn't break him, but when I saw that what it did to him, I was like, my god, if life can do that to my dad, take away his bar, you know, make him sad, or whatever it's like, what's it going to do to someone like me, you know, so I became very afraid of life, and I suppose I just wanted to go somewhere that felt other worldly, and that just felt so different, you know, that just so different, Yeah,   Michael Hingson ** 18:38 well, and, and now you say that you really feel that it was the best decision that you could make.   Peter William Murphy ** 18:48 Yeah, I wouldn't change it for the world. I mean, I've got some great stories. Yeah, halfway through a book about it now. So hopefully in the next year, that book will hopefully get published, and if not, I'll put it out there myself.   Michael Hingson ** 19:06 So when the pandemic hit, how did that affect or deal with your teaching and so on? Because you were teaching all that time since you you stepped back from that in 2023 so you must have had to deal with a lot of stuff with the pandemic, I would think,   Peter William Murphy ** 19:25 yeah, I know a lot of people suffered during the pandemic, but if I'm going to speak, it was difficult for everyone, but if I'm going to just for me in my apartment in Turkey, it was a good pandemic for me, you know, I took the opportunity to learn the guitar, get better at my job, did a lot of study, got more certificates, and also. Uh, I was familiar with Zoom before the big zoom thing happened. So I kind of knew before our first online lesson. You know, I spent about maybe three weeks because we went into lockdown in Turkey, I think March 2020, I believe we were a bit Lacher than most, but we, we stopped school in February, I think, and there was about a two or three week time where they were trying to figure it out. And, you know, you you know, everyone's going to go. If America and England are go and China are locked down. We're going to be locked down too. So I started doing tutorials on Zoom Near Pod, other online teaching websites, and started learning about them. So when the first lesson started on Zoom, I was really good at it, and all the students loved it. I wasn't the only teacher who did that. Lots of my colleagues I did that. But, you know, the pandemic was definitely a time where a lot of us who were lucky enough not to get ill were able to, you know, put more strings to our boat, right?   Michael Hingson ** 21:24 What do you think about all the discussions and all the arguments and all the conversations that go on now about online teaching as opposed to doing it live, and where, where all of it fits in. Can people really do it, you know, kind of what are your thoughts   Peter William Murphy ** 21:47 for children? I do not recommend this as the primary source of their education. I believe that socializing is very important for them, even having a teacher. You know, one of the biggest things you can do as a teacher with your classroom management is where you stand in the classroom. You know, being able to observe the students, then knowing that you're there as a present all the materials that you would have in the classroom. These are all things that actually, they need something small, but they do help kids that kind of five minute break every 14 minutes where they can run outside, keep a ball around and talk to each other. That's really important, yeah. But if you're talking about maybe between the 18 and up age group, I think it depends on the person. I've had students who who are prepared for IELTS, and they have needed a top score, and only have three months, and we've been face to face, working, helping them with their writing, doing everything, and it just doesn't work. There's something about the school environment where it just doesn't rub off on them. But then the minute you get them online and you start introducing games, you gamify it, just do lots of different things with them, for some reason they feel more comfortable. It could be an anxiety thing could be where they just feel more relaxed. At home, everyone's different, but for children, from my experience, definitely face to face learning is the best. Zoom is okay in an emergency. I do not recommend hybrid learning whatsoever.   Michael Hingson ** 23:40 Yeah, it's a it's a challenge. I know, for me personally, I can do online and, or and, or I can do things in person, in terms of learning and so on. I'm used to doing a lot of things outside of the typical corporate or office environment. So I can do that, but I also value and appreciate the social interaction when you go into an office and you have an opportunity to to meet with people. The only thing I would would say is way too often, unfortunately, people socialize so much that they forget in a work environment, you're really there to work and really need to figure out how to focus more on getting the job done. But I think there are a lot of aspects to that as well, because it isn't necessarily that people are lazy, but by the same token, if they don't really recognize what the job is about and what they're doing and that they have to put the appropriate time into it, or figure out a way to put in the appropriate time, then that's, you know, an issue too.   Peter William Murphy ** 24:58 Yeah, I would, you percent people. Be With You.   Michael Hingson ** 25:01 I think that, yeah, it's interesting. I've had a few people on the podcast here where we've talked about time management. We've talked about how people work in Europe, as opposed to in the United States, and some of the statistics that show that, in reality, if people put in longer days, but don't spend as many days at work, like if you put in 410, hour days, as opposed to five, eight hour days or something like that, you tend to get more work done, which I think is very interesting.   Peter William Murphy ** 25:36 Yeah, I've noticed that too, since I started working at home more and more. That I had a discussion with my wife the other day, and I said, you know, I think I need to rent an office, you know, because whilst I do like having, you know, low overheads and not paying rent. There is something about getting up in the morning, putting on a nice shirt, black coffee, and walk to the office. And you know, have your work day. One thing that I'm noticing is working online, with writing and helping students, is I'll wake up at 5am and I'll shower and I'll I'll work from 6am until midnight, and I am looking at my looking at myself in the mirror the next day and saying, Joe, this is unsustainable, like we It's you can say to yourself, oh, sure, just, you know, make your own routine. But it's very hard to stick to a routine if you are, you know, writing articles, if you have meetings at various times throughout the day, if you're dealing with multiple time zones. So there's, there is something attractive of going back and renting an office, you know, having a base where work is work and home is home. Yeah,   Michael Hingson ** 27:10 and I, and I appreciate that. I, I personally am able to work at home and separate that out. But I do know what you're what you're saying. And not everyone can do that. I've just done that a lot in my life because I've worked for companies where I worked remotely anyway, so I'm used to that, but I also appreciate your discipline. I'm sorry   Peter William Murphy ** 27:35 you've got discipline. It's something I need to work   Michael Hingson ** 27:38 on. Well, I guess that's probably it, yeah, I guess that's that's probably it. And I have enough other things during the day that demand time. So for example, at five o'clock, that's the time to feed the guide dog, and he wants to eat. And if I don't do that, I'm going to hear about it. So what's your dog's name? His name is Alamo. Like the Alamo? Yeah. So, you know, the issue is that I do have some things to help keep me honest, but, yeah, I can be fairly well disciplined with it, and I can make that work, and I understand that a lot of people can't. The other thing for me being a public speaker is I'm not as great a fan of speaking virtually, speaking online, as I am speaking in person. And the reason is, and it took me a while to kind of figure out why I didn't really like it as much as as probably some people that I don't have nearly the same kind of connection with the audience to whom I'm speaking if I'm doing it online, and I don't get to hear their reactions to things that I say. And for me, having that audio interaction, those auditory signals are part of what tells me if I'm doing a good job or not. On the other hand, I've done this long enough that I can pretty well tell what's probably going to work and what's not. So I'm perfectly happy to do virtual presentations, but if I have a choice, I like to do it in person, right?   Peter William Murphy ** 29:09 Yeah, I agree with you there. There is something very cool about being up on stage, yeah, and talking to a lot of people, but my favorite part has to be afterwards, when you're having the teas and the coffees and you're talking to everybody in the lobby. I really do love that part.   Michael Hingson ** 29:29 Oh, yeah. Well, and I try to integrate some of that even into the talks that I give, so that I have audiences participating. And sometimes the participation may be that I ask them something to answer, and sometimes it's how I tell a story to draw them in. And I've had any number of people tell me we were just following you down the stairs in the World Trade Center as you were telling the story. You were just so. Vivid with what you were saying. We were right there with you. And that's the thing that I think is a lot harder to do in a virtual environment than it is in a in an environment where you're actually speaking to people.   Peter William Murphy ** 30:13 Yeah, that's I told you when we had a chat before I came on, that it's really great honor to speak to you. And you know, I really do love your story and the way that you tell it, and of course, about your guide dog that led you out. It's really like an amazing story   Michael Hingson ** 30:36 well, and you know, it's it, it's a team effort. Both of us had jobs to do, and it was a matter of me being the team leader and keeping the team on course and doing the things that we needed to do. But it did work out well, and I'm glad about that. So it's that's important, but tell me more about the school that you're trying to start as you're working toward it, what will it be? Well, we   Peter William Murphy ** 31:07 are deadline to open it up was in three weeks ago, we found three buildings. I can't go into the detail, but it's, let's just say that, you know, someone said one price in the advertisements, and then when we got face to face, there was a new price. There was a lot of that kind of carry on. So my wife and I had a discussion, and we said, let's put peak English online first and get a base in because we do plan to either maybe perhaps move to Ireland in the future. So it is going to have to be a business that can, you know, move anywhere. We are going to have to have a online base. We've started working with the school in Brazil, and we've got some clients in Saudi Arabia and Qatar. So it's a nice space to get online at the moment, as we head into September, when all the kids are back to school, and then we will start small. We on sub stack. I started a small GoFundMe to help me reach my goal before the deadline, and people were very, very supportive. They gained a lot of traction. And then I spoke with my subscribers, and I said I gave them the plan because I like to tell them to know what's going to happen if they're paid subscribers, because everything I make from my writing goes directly back into education. So everything I make from medium top back, everything it goes towards building the school. And we are now going to go into September on a good footing, but we're going to have to downsize our expectations and perhaps buy some or smaller but our methodology and our mission will remain the same, to make education affordable, to help students pass their IELTS exams, to give them an opportunity to go work in Canada, America, the UK, Ireland.   Michael Hingson ** 33:15 So yes, that's peak English. Well, there you go. Which is, which is pretty cool. Well, what does your wife work? Or does she just help you with the school? Or what does she do?   Peter William Murphy ** 33:26 My wife? What does she do? My wife is an artist. She's a gamer, she's a teacher and she's a website designer. She's everything. She's the Peter whisperer. She's definitely good at when I'm in a whirlwind writing or, you know, I'll do too many things at once. She's, she's like a tablet for ADHD. I think she just, she's good at, kind of directing me calm down. So she she knows everything. Michael, she's a teacher, English language teacher. Graduated from Palm college, university, and she worked in an ink, in a in a college, and she's just about to embark on her Master's. So one of us will get that degree.   Michael Hingson ** 34:18 Yeah, one way or another, you'll have one in the family. Yeah,   Peter William Murphy ** 34:22 exactly. Well, she has one, but she'll get a master's. Yeah,   Michael Hingson ** 34:26 you'll have a master's in the family. Do you have any children? No, no, no, we're children. No children yet? Well, that's another thing to look forward to in in the future, which is, which is,   Peter William Murphy ** 34:38 where we don't know what to do. We love turkey, but also we want them to have a, you know, a Turkish. We want them to, you know, have an appreciation for Turkey and for Ireland. So we're trying to figure out where would be the best place to to raise kids in the in. You know, current global environment. And you know, despite all the trouble that Ireland has in 2008 every time I go home, it's still solid ground. And you know, it's the older I get, the more I'm kind of, I think we will end up there eventually, but we'll see. Yeah, well,   Michael Hingson ** 35:28 it'll all work out in time. I suspect you strike me as individuals. Yeah, you strike me as a person that will, will make things work out. And you're, you're willing to step back and and do it in a methodical and in very positive way, which is, which is pretty cool. Well, tell me about some of your writing. What kind of what have you written?   Peter William Murphy ** 35:54 Well, I told you about the book. I'm halfway through. It's the working title is becoming useful. Then on medium, I started writing about mental health, and I got imposter syndrome again. Of course, there's nothing wrong with writing anecdotally about your experience, but sometimes on the internet, it's probably better not to talk about kind of medical kind of things, you know what I mean. So I said, well, what could I pivot to? And I started writing travel memoirs about my time on the island, and I ended up getting curated about 40 times by medium selected for curation is basically where they choose the staff choose your story, and they give it a boost into the algorithm, and basically it just gets sent all over the internet. So that happened 40 times. Then I wrote for your tango, which is a New York based website. And then after a year and a half on medium, I pivoted to sub stack, where I continued to do my writing. And about three months ago, sub stack began doing live streams, kind of like on YouTube or Instagram, they have these live streams on sub stack. So I didn't feel comfortable talking about my teaching on sub stack, because I felt like my my writing persona, not that it's controversial, had its own space in my life, so I kept it separate from my teaching, and I spoke with a friend, and we saw everyone on Sub stack was doing these live one hour streams. So we thought we would do a comedy show. So we started doing these 1015, minute comedy shows live on substack, and they became very popular. And a lot of you know big authors like Walter Reed, Robin wilding, who would be very popular on that website came on as guest, and it's kind of this new outlet where everything leads back to teaching, where I'm learning about video editing now and how to reach an audience, and then straight away, with peak English, I said, Okay, so that's that. Now I know more about how the internet works, so now open up a Tiktok and an Instagram and, you know, focus that into peak English. So our Instagram account now is growing. It's got close to 1000 followers, and our Tiktok is just open. So, yeah, going to use what I learned from sub stack to reach more students give more tips on how to pass exams on other social platforms.   Michael Hingson ** 39:12 Okay, and you've, you've created some fictional characters along the way, haven't you?   Peter William Murphy ** 39:20 Yeah, I have Peter and Freeman, who have a small little cult following on on substack, kind of based on a relationship I have with a friend of mine and my brother and I. My brother has done the Olympics. He's done the not as an athlete, but he's worked for Warner Brothers and other companies, doing the filming of it, and we're both very much in the film. We're working on a script, and we're trying to develop something at the moment together. Of course, our day jobs are our main focus, but it's very nice to have a similar interest with your brother, that you can just work. Worked on together, you know,   Michael Hingson ** 40:01 yeah, well, you know, back in the days of old radio, there was a ven Troy lacherist, Edgar Bergen, who had his creature, Charlie McCarthy. And it was interesting that a lot of times Charlie spoke for Edgar. Edgar would, would would communicate through Charlie, as opposed to just communicating himself, and it was a way that he felt comfortable doing, which was interesting.   Peter William Murphy ** 40:32 Yeah, that's interesting with Murphy's Law, which is my medium pending, after about a year and a half, I, you know, I said I can't keep writing about the island or this or that, or memoirs. I have to try grow as a writer. So I started trying different styles. I started writing a satire. I started writing a political satire or just pure comedy pieces. And lo and behold, I was okay at it, and they gained traction, and they were funny. And this is strange, so then Murphy's law went to kind of satire. And then I started writing about politics, say what's happening in the USA, the friction over there, some other world events. And I enjoyed it. The editors liked it, and it was published in some very good publications. And it was great. I found many voices, you know, but as time went on, and I love medium, and I love substack, it's, it's my passion, and it has helped me grow, not just as a writer, but as I mentioned earlier, helped me hone all the skills I use that become, you know, big enough on it into how I can create this business that my wife and I try to open up, and it has really helped. But you are always chasing the algorithm, you know, and I would rather have a product out there that helps people, you know, pass their exams, give them guidance with these as, you know, do volunteer work, things like that, that will actually help people. And people will remember it as peak English, as a brand that will help them, because Murphy's Law and the exile files online, I love them, and they are my babies, but they are very much passion projects that, like Reunion Island, have helped me figure out what I want to do. You know?   Michael Hingson ** 42:58 Yeah, well now you talk about Murphy's Law. And of course, we all know Murphy's Law is, if anything can go wrong at will. But there was a book written years ago that was called Murphy's Law and other reasons why things go wrong. And the first, I think I've heard of that, and the first thing in the book after Murphy's Law was o'toole's commentary on Murphy's Law, which was, Murphy was an optimist. I always thought was cute. I like that. Murphy was an optimist.   Peter William Murphy ** 43:30 Well, it's, you know, I think in life, like you said yourself, when, when that terrible day happens in the World Trade Center, it was like you could either lose your mind or you stay calm, you know. And no, I think, I think everybody, kind of you know, can learn from that, from learn from your book, that you just have to keep going moving forward. People react differently to different you know, setbacks like I mentioned, with the leg break and the bar closing another young man, it might, it might not have affected them at all. They would have said, It's okay. I just kept going. But it just so happened that it affected me that way. And you my brother, for example, he stuck it out. He stayed in Ireland, and he he did it so it's it really does depend on the person and how they how one can deal with what life throws at you. Some people think it was like it was the best thing I ever did, but looking back on it, like I wouldn't change it, but looking back on it, I would have liked to have done it, maybe in a calmer way.   Michael Hingson ** 44:56 The other the other side of that though, is that. So there are a lot of things that happen around us, and we don't have any control over the fact that they happen as such, but we absolutely have control over how we deal with what happened, and I think that's what so many people miss and don't, don't deal with and the reality is that we can always make choices based on what goes on around us, and we can do that and and that can be a positive thing, or it can be a negative thing, and that's a choice that we have To make.   Peter William Murphy ** 45:37 Yeah, you're dead, right? Yeah, I, when I first came to Turkey, I was only supposed to be here for three months, you know, but there was something intoxicating about the country. There just the smell, the food people and I about six months into my stay here, back in 2013, or 14, like I did, have that decision where I had to kind of look at myself saying, Am I staying here because I'm running away, or am I staying here because I feel this is where I can achieve what I want to achieve. And I stayed because I felt this was like the environment where I could kind of deal with myself and kind of deal with life, and, you know, just be who I wanted to be, not that I couldn't do that in Ireland, but just the 24 year old version of myself. That's what like he was thinking, you know? And I got to respect that,   Michael Hingson ** 46:46 sure. And the other part about it, though, is that you you at least ask yourself the question, and you really took the responsibility to try to make a decision and come up with an answer, which is what a lot of people avoid doing.   Peter William Murphy ** 47:01 I wrote out the pros and cons on a piece of paper. I still have that piece of paper under your bed, and went up to the top of the mountain. There's, there's a huge mountain next to the city here. I'd go up there every day, but I just sat down and I just stared at the piece of paper. And there was just something where I said, you know, I have to try and become something here, you know, because if I can become something, even if it's something small, like something, you know, as humble, as just being a language teacher or helping one person or two people, it doesn't matter if I can do that here, then it would have been worth it. Yeah, of course. If time goes on, you learn more, you become stronger, you become more educated, you become trained. And then if you just keep going, no matter how you know down the dumps you were in the past, if you just keep going, one day, you will wake up and you will know exactly who you are and what you're supposed to do, and that's kind of what Turkey and Reunion Island gave to me.   Michael Hingson ** 48:10 Do you think that as you were growing up and so on, that the system failed you?   Peter William Murphy ** 48:18 I do remember one time. And I have to preface this for saying that I hold nothing against this person, but I remember I went to the psychologist or counselor in, I won't name the university, and the university I went to and and I didn't know them at all, and I sat down and I told them I was struggling with mental health. And, you know, there was, I'm not saying anything now like but there was a lot of young men taking their own lives in Ireland around this time, a lot and women, and I wasn't like that at all, but I was feeling down, and I wanted to see what the university could do for me. And I remember just being turned away saying, Come back next Tuesday, you know, at 405 and I did find it very hard to kind of like communicate and get help in university through Washington, like I didn't need directions on how to get to the Lacher hall or anything like that. I knew all that, but there was something else going on that I needed help with, and there, it wasn't there at all. Since then, of course, in the last 1516, years, Ireland is, you know, I suggest mental health capital of the world. But when, when I was there, maybe, maybe I just caught them on a bad day.   Michael Hingson ** 49:58 Yeah, hard to say. But the. Other part about it is look at what you've done since then, and look how you talk about it today, which really illustrates a lot of resilience on your part. And I'm sure that that's something that had to develop over time, but you still did it, and you became a more resilient individual because of all of that.   Peter William Murphy ** 50:22 Yeah, I'd say I've got that for my mom and dad. They're very resilient. But also that resilience has changed from, you know, booking a one way ticket to reunion and, you know, just doing all that crazy stuff, then go ahead and stand ball bus rides around Turkey, not knowing where I'm going, not having money, not enough for rent, all this kind of stuff. But it's changed because I remember I got a job partnering with a recruitment company that's based in Amsterdam, and I remember just willy nilly booking the flight over to Amsterdam, and just kind of, I just gotten married, and I Michael. I was not resilient at all. I did not want to go, I did not want to travel, I wanted to be at home with my wife, you know what I mean? And so I definitely got softer in other ways. So your resilience does change. It becomes more kind of a mental toughness than, say, that kind of young book physical resilience that you had when you were younger. It completely switches.   Michael Hingson ** 51:32 Yeah, well, and I think resilience is, is really, to a large degree about the whole concept of, well, mental toughness, or maybe the ability to look at what you're doing and going through and being able to make a decision about how to proceed, I think that's really kind of more of it than anything else, right, right? And so resilience, I think, as oftentimes, it's a term that's overused, but the reality is, I think what resilience really is is your ability to keep things whoever you are, keep things in perspective, and be able to step back and ask the tough questions of yourself and listen to your inner self and get the answers that you need. Yes.   Peter William Murphy ** 52:25 If that makes sense. It does. It makes perfect sense. Just gotta keep going. Yeah, yeah, yeah.   Michael Hingson ** 52:35 You do have to keep going, and it's kind of important to do that, but you've had a lot of different things that you've done. You know, you've been, you're an author, by the way. Do you still make drinks anywhere?   Peter William Murphy ** 52:51 No, I just at home, right away home. Good for you. Yeah? Yeah, we it's a drinking God. Drinking is such a funny one. It's something that just, I don't know, dissolved from my life. When I aged 30, I didn't become a teetotaler or anything like that. Like I'll still have red wine and I'll be here with friends, but I rarely touch the stuff. And I think it's mostly due to the fact that I start work so early in the morning, you know, and I just cannot wake up with any sort of grogginess. I leave black coffee, you know, look at the news for 20 minutes, pet my cat, take a shower and then start, yeah.   Michael Hingson ** 53:42 Well, my wife and I used to have a drink on Friday night. I mean, we're capable. We were capable of going to restaurants and parties and occasionally have something. But I know since she passed in 2022 we were married 40 years. I part of honoring her is that I have a drink on Friday night. One drink. I don't because I've never nice. I've never really felt that I need to have alcohol or anything like that. I've never been a great fan of the taste, but I have a drink to honor her on Friday night. So that's kind of fun.   Peter William Murphy ** 54:21 Yeah, that's very nice. I mean, we it's my wife's birthday in two days, actually, so I'm very lucky. She's very she's like me in a way. I want to take her to a nice, fancy restaurant, or to do this and do that, but she just wants a chicken burger. And hello, yeah, so we just go out to our favorite restaurant. And you know, they're good burgers. They're pretty gourmet, but yeah, she's pretty down to earth with me. And yeah, we have a lot of fun together. And yeah. But I'm currently planning her birthday presents as as I'm speaking to you.   Michael Hingson ** 55:07 If you could go back and talk to a younger Peter, what would you what would you tell them? What would you want them to learn?   Peter William Murphy ** 55:15 Oh, I would tell him to go straight to a to talk to somebody, yeah, just to go straight to talk to somebody, that's the biggest thing. I had an interview where I was the host yesterday with a man who does Astro photography, and one of his, you know, other projects he does. He's a recovering alcoholic. Where he's he really talks about, you know, men talking to other men too, like, if your friend call, pick up, always speak. Tell people what's going on. Of course, don't nag people and to tell them every problem you have, but if you're down into dumps, you should talk to somebody. So anybody who's like young, you know, late, late teens coming up, should definitely talk to someone straight away, because I think a few simple sentences from a professional could have saved me a lot of let's call them headaches in the future, all   Michael Hingson ** 56:28 too often we the way we're taught. We just don't get encouraged to do that, do we?   Peter William Murphy ** 56:34 No, no. People listen. People are good. People will do what they can. But I think sometimes, I think the way it's framed maybe scares men. I think we're a lot better now, but maybe 1015, years ago, and even before that, trying to get a kid to, you know, talk to professional, nobody wants to be different in that way. You know, back then anyway and but it's so healthy. It's so good to have someone who can regurgitate back what you've just told them, but in a clear, calm fashion that you know makes sense. It does the world of good. It's, it's, it's better than medicine   Michael Hingson ** 57:27 for most. Puts a lot of things in perspective, doesn't it? It does, yeah, which, which makes a lot of sense. Well, yeah, I think this has been great. I've very much enjoyed having the opportunity to talk with you and and and hear a lot of great life lessons. I hope everyone who is out there listening to us appreciates all the things that you had to say as well. If anybody wants to reach out to you, how do they do that?   Peter William Murphy ** 57:57 Well, we're on Instagram as peak English. We're also on Tiktok as peak English,   Michael Hingson ** 58:04 peak as in P, E, A, K, that's right   Peter William Murphy ** 58:07 behind me here. So if anybody can see it's there's the spelling on my wallpaper.   Michael Hingson ** 58:14 And, yeah, a lot of people probably aren't watching videos, so that's why I asked you to spell   Peter William Murphy ** 58:19 it. Yeah? Well, actually, I'm blocking it, so I moved out of the way. There   Michael Hingson ** 58:23 you go. Well, I won't see it,   Peter William Murphy ** 58:27 yeah, so I Yeah. So that's the best way to get in contact with me. You can Google me. Peter William Murphy, medium writer, I pretty much on the top of the lid, if you're interested in writing, also the exile files. And we're also on YouTube with the exile files, so there's lots of stuff going on. This is an English speaking audience, so I'm assuming nobody's going to want lessons from me. So if you're interested in my writing, check out medium and sub stack. And if you know anybody of friends who needs English, tell them about peak English, and I will help you.   Michael Hingson ** 59:11 There you go. Well, I don't know, there may be people who aren't the greatest English speakers listening who, who might reach out. Well, I hope that they do, and I hope they appreciate all that you've offered today. I really appreciate you coming on and spending an hour with us. I hope that all it's an honor. Oh, it's been fun. And I would say to all of you out there, I'd love to hear what your thoughts are. Feel free to email me at Michael H i@accessibe.com that's m, I, C, H, A, E, L, H, I, at accessibe, A, C, C, E, S, S, i, b, e.com, love to hear from you. I'd love to hear your thoughts wherever you're listening. I hope that you'll give us a five star rating. We really appreciate your ratings and your reviews and Peter for you and for all of you, if you know anyone who ought to be a. Guest on the podcast. We're always looking for people to come on and tell their stories, so don't hesitate to provide introductions. We love it. We really appreciate you all doing that. And again, Peter, I just want to thank you for for coming on. This has been a lot of fun today.   1:00:14 Thank you so much. It's pleasure to speak with you.   **Michael Hingson ** 1:00:23 You have been listening to the Unstoppable Mindset podcast. Thanks for dropping by. I hope that you'll join us again next week, and in future weeks for upcoming episodes. To subscribe to our podcast and to learn about upcoming episodes, please visit www dot Michael hingson.com slash podcast. Michael Hingson is spelled m i c h a e l h i n g s o n. While you're on the site., please use the form there to recommend people who we ought to interview in upcoming editions of the show. And also, we ask you and urge you to invite your friends to join us in the future. If you know of any one or any organization needing a speaker for an event, please email me at speaker at Michael hingson.com. I appreciate it very much. To learn more about the concept of blinded by fear, please visit www dot Michael hingson.com forward slash blinded by fear and while you're there, feel free to pick up a copy of my free eBook entitled blinded by fear. The unstoppable mindset podcast is provided by access cast an initiative of accessiBe and is sponsored by accessiBe. Please visit www.accessibe.com . AccessiBe is spelled a c c e s s i b e. There you can learn all about how you can make your website inclusive for all persons with disabilities and how you can help make the internet fully inclusive by 2025. Thanks again for Listening. Please come back and visit us again next week.

Subscribe to C-Speak so you never miss an episode. Listen on Apple Podcasts, Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts.In this episode of PNC C-Speak, Justin Pasquariello, president and CEO of East Boston Social Centers, and Sarah Siegel Muncey, co-president of Neighborhood Villages, delve into the missions of their organizations and their impactful partnership. Muncey highlights Neighborhood Villages' mission to establish a structured child care system and details their collaborative approach to support schools and care providers. Pasquariello shares his journey into early childhood and community work, emphasizing the importance of addressing foundational social issues and building resilient, joy-filled communities.  Listen to hear more about: ·      Why Sarah Siegel Munsey started Neighborhood Villages (00:32)·      The partnership between East Boston Social Centers and Neighborhood Villages (4:09)·      How Pasquariello leads successful programs while working to change the early childhood system (11:17) ·      Key accomplishments of each organization (22:34)

In this nonprofit spotlight, host Matt Bradshaw speaks with Justin Pasquariello, the CEO of East Boston Social Centers. They discuss Justin's journey into the nonprofit sector, the mission and impact of East Boston Social Centers, and the importance of understanding community needs.Justin shares insights on balancing mission and administration, engaging the board, and diversifying funding sources. The conversation also touches on the role of storytelling in fundraising, collaboration with other nonprofits, and the impact of technology and AI in the sector. Justin emphasizes the need for nonprofits to adapt to changing landscapes and the importance of community involvement in achieving their missions.About Charity Charge:Charity Charge is a financial technology company serving the nonprofit sector. From the Charity Charge Nonprofit Credit Card to bookkeeping, gift card disbursements, and state compliance, we help mission-driven organizations streamline operations and stay financially strong. Learn more at charitycharge.com.

They're far behind Mayor Michelle Wu and Josh Kraft in recent polls, but Hyde Park's Domingos DaRosa and Robert Cappucci of East Boston are making their pitch to voters.

Cha-Chi & David explore the influence of the Beatles on the life and music of renowned musician Sal Baglio. Sal reminisces about his early encounters with the Beatles, his experiences growing up in East Boston, and the profound impact the Beatles had on his musical journey. The episode also touches on Sal's collaborations with other musicians and his performances with The Amplifier Heads. Tune in for anecdotes from iconic concerts, insightful discussions on songwriting, and a look forward to upcoming events celebrating Beatles history.   More on Sal and the Amplifier Heads: https://linktr.ee/theamplifierheads   Topics 01:08 Special Guest: Sal Baglio 02:41 Sal Bag's Musical Journey 04:49 the Beatles' Influence on Sal  11:39 Upcoming Beatles Tribute Event 32:20 Confusion Over Rubber Soul 34:33 Brian Wilson's Influence 35:39 Memories of Meeting the Beach Boys 39:26 Record Store Nostalgia 42:37 The White Album Experience 46:00 Upcoming Shows and Performances 48:42 Italian Heritage Podcast Idea 55:52 Final Thoughts and Farewell

Have you or do you feel stress? What is stress and how can we deal with it? Our guest this time is Rachelle Stone who discusses those very questions with us. Rachelle grew up in a very small town in Massachusetts. After attending community college, she had an opportunity to study and work at Disney World in Florida and has never looked back.   Rachelle loved her Disney work and entered the hospitality industry spending much of 27 years working for or running her own destination management company. She will describe how one day after a successful career, at the age of 48, she suffered what today we know as burnout. She didn't know how to describe her feelings at the time, but she will tell us how she eventually discovered what was going on with her.   She began to explore and then study the profession of coaching. Rachelle will tell us about coaches and clients and how what coaches do can help change lives in so many ways.   This episode is full of the kind of thoughts and ideas we all experience as well as insights on how we can move forward when our mindsets are keeping us from moving forward. Rachelle has a down-to-Earth way of explaining what she wants to say that we all can appreciate.       About the Guest:   “As your leadership consultant, I will help you hone your leadership, so you are ready for your next career move. As your executive coach, I will partner with you to overcome challenges and obstacles so you can execute your goals.”     Hi, I'm Rachelle. I spent over 25 years as an entrepreneur and leader in the Special Event industry in Miami, building, flipping, and selling Destination Management Companies (DMCs).  While I loved and thrived in the excitement and chaos of the industry, I still managed to hit a level of burnout that was wholly unexpected and unacceptable to me, resulting in early retirement at 48.   Now, as a trained Leadership Consultant and Executive Coach, I've made it my mission to combine this hard-won wisdom and experience to crack the code on burnout and balance for others so they can continue to thrive in careers they love. I am Brené Brown Dare to Lead ™ trained, a Certified Positive Intelligence ® Mental Fitness coach, and an accredited Professional Certified Coach by the ICF (International Coaching Federation, the most recognized global accreditation body in the coaching industry).   I continue to grow my expertise and show my commitment to the next generation of coaches by serving on the ICF-Central Florida chapter board of directors. I am serving as President-Elect and Chapter Liaison to the global organization. I also support those new to the coaching industry by mentoring other coaches to obtain advanced coaching credentials.   I maintain my well-being by practicing Pilates & Pvolve ® a few days a week, taking daily walks, loving on my Pug, Max, and making time for beach walks when possible.   Ways to connect Rachel:   www.rstoneconsulting.com https://www.linkedin.com/in/rstoneconsulting/ Instagram: @even_wonderwoman_gets_tired   About the Host:   Michael Hingson is a New York Times best-selling author, international lecturer, and Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe. Michael, blind since birth, survived the 9/11 attacks with the help of his guide dog Roselle. This story is the subject of his best-selling book, Thunder Dog.   Michael gives over 100 presentations around the world each year speaking to influential groups such as Exxon Mobile, AT&T, Federal Express, Scripps College, Rutgers University, Children's Hospital, and the American Red Cross just to name a few. He is Ambassador for the National Braille Literacy Campaign for the National Federation of the Blind and also serves as Ambassador for the American Humane Association's 2012 Hero Dog Awards.   https://michaelhingson.com https://www.facebook.com/michael.hingson.author.speaker/ https://twitter.com/mhingson https://www.youtube.com/user/mhingson https://www.linkedin.com/in/michaelhingson/   accessiBe Links https://accessibe.com/ https://www.youtube.com/c/accessiBe https://www.linkedin.com/company/accessibe/mycompany/   https://www.facebook.com/accessibe/       Thanks for listening!   Thanks so much for listening to our podcast! If you enjoyed this episode and think that others could benefit from listening, please share it using the social media buttons on this page. Do you have some feedback or questions about this episode? Leave a comment in the section below!   Subscribe to the podcast   If you would like to get automatic updates of new podcast episodes, you can subscribe to the podcast on Apple Podcasts or Stitcher. You can subscribe in your favorite podcast app. You can also support our podcast through our tip jar https://tips.pinecast.com/jar/unstoppable-mindset .   Leave us an Apple Podcasts review   Ratings and reviews from our listeners are extremely valuable to us and greatly appreciated. They help our podcast rank higher on Apple Podcasts, which exposes our show to more awesome listeners like you. If you have a minute, please leave an honest review on Apple Podcasts.       Transcription Notes:   Michael Hingson ** 00:00 Access Cast and accessiBe Initiative presents Unstoppable Mindset. The podcast where inclusion, diversity and the unexpected meet. Hi, I'm Michael Hingson, Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe and the author of the number one New York Times bestselling book, Thunder dog, the story of a blind man, his guide dog and the triumph of trust. Thanks for joining me on my podcast as we explore our own blinding fears of inclusion unacceptance and our resistance to change. We will discover the idea that no matter the situation, or the people we encounter, our own fears, and prejudices often are our strongest barriers to moving forward. The unstoppable mindset podcast is sponsored by accessiBe, that's a c c e s s i capital B e. Visit www.accessibe.com to learn how you can make your website accessible for persons with disabilities. And to help make the internet fully inclusive by the year 2025. Glad you dropped by we're happy to meet you and to have you here with us. Well, hi and welcome to unstoppable mindset where inclusion diversity and the unexpected meet. But you know, the more fun thing about it is the unexpected. Unexpected is always a good thing, and unexpected is really anything that doesn't have anything directly to do with inclusion or diversity, which is most of what we get to deal with in the course of the podcast, including with our guest today, Rachelle Stone, who worked in the hospitality industry in a variety of ways during a lot of her life, and then switched to being a coach and a leadership expert. And I am fascinated to learn about that and what what brought her to that? And we'll get to that at some point in the course of the day. But Rachelle, welcome to unstoppable mindset. We're glad you're here. Thank   Rachelle Stone ** 02:08 you, Michael. I'm honored to be here. Excited to be talking to you today.   Michael Hingson ** 02:12 Well, it's a lot of fun now. You're in Florida. I am. I'm in the Clearwater   Rachelle Stone ** 02:16 Dunedin area. I like to say I live in Dunedin, Florida without the zip code.   Michael Hingson ** 02:22 Yeah. Well, I hear you, you know, then makes it harder to find you that way, right?   Rachelle Stone ** 02:28 Physically. Yeah, right, exactly. Danita, without the zip code, we'll stick with that. Yeah,   Michael Hingson ** 02:33 yeah, that works. Well, I'm really glad you're here. Why don't we start by maybe you talking to us a little bit about the early Rachelle growing up and some of that stuff.   Rachelle Stone ** 02:43 Yeah, I was lucky. I grew up in rural Western Massachusetts, little po doc town called Greenfield, Massachusetts. We were 18 miles from the Vermont border, which was literally a mile and a half from the New Hampshire border. So I grew up in this very interesting area where it was like a tri state area, and our idea of fun growing up, well, it was, we were always outdoors, playing very much outdoors. I had three siblings, and I was the youngest, and it was one of those childhoods where you came home from school, and mom would say, go outside, don't come back in the house until you hear the whistle. And every house on the street, every mother had a whistle. There were only seven houses because there was a Boy Scout camp at the end of the road. So as the sun was setting and the street lights would come on, you would hear different whistles, and different family kids would be going home the stone kids up, that's your mom. Go home, see you next time that was it was great. And you know, as I got older and more adventurous, it was cow tipping and keg parties and behind and all sorts of things that we probably shouldn't have been doing in our later teen years, but it was fun. Behind   Michael Hingson ** 04:04 is it's four wheeling,   Rachelle Stone ** 04:08 going up rough terrain. We had these. It was very, very hilly, where I was lot of lot of small mountains that you could conquer.   Michael Hingson ** 04:17 So in the winter, does that mean you got to do some fun things, like sledding in the snow. Yeah, yeah.   Rachelle Stone ** 04:24 We had a great hill in the back of our yard, so I learned to ski in my own backyard, and we had three acres of woods, so we would go snowshoeing. We were also close to a private school called Northfield Mount Hermon, which had beautiful, beautiful grounds, and in the winter, we would go cross country skiing there. So again, year round, we were, we were outdoors a lot.   Michael Hingson ** 04:52 Well, my time in Massachusetts was three years living in Winthrop so I was basically East Boston. Yeah. Yes and and very much enjoyed it. Loved the environment. I've been all over Massachusetts in one way or another, so I'm familiar with where you were. I am, and I will admit, although the winters were were cold, that wasn't as much a bother as it was when the snow turned to ice or started to melt, and then that night it froze. That got to be pretty slippery,   05:25 very dangerous, very dangerous.   Michael Hingson ** 05:29 I then experienced it again later, when we lived in New Jersey and and I actually our house to take the dogs out. We had no fenced yards, so I had to take them out on leash, and I would go down to our basement and go out and walk out basement onto a small deck or patio, actually, and then I had to go down a hill to take the dogs where they could go do their business. And I remember the last year we were in New Jersey, it snowed in May, and the snow started to melt the next day, and then that night, it froze, and it and it stayed that way for like about a day and a half. And so it was as slick as glass is. Glass could be. So eventually I couldn't I could go down a hill, it was very dangerous, but going back up a hill to come back in the house was not safe. So eventually, I just used a very long flex leash that was like 20 feet long, and I sent the dogs down the hill. I stayed at the top.   Rachelle Stone ** 06:33 Was smart, wow. And they didn't mind. They just wanted to go do their business, and they wanted to get back in the house too. It's cold, yeah?   Michael Hingson ** 06:41 They didn't seem to be always in an incredible hurry to come back into the house. But they had no problem coming up the hill. That's the the advantage of having claws,   Rachelle Stone ** 06:51 yes. Pause, yeah, four of them to boot, right? Yeah, which   Michael Hingson ** 06:54 really helped a great deal. But, you know, I remember it. I love it. I loved it. Then now I live in in a place in California where we're on what's called the high desert, so it doesn't get as cold, and we get hardly any of the precipitation that even some of the surrounding areas do, from Los Angeles and Long Beach and so on to on the one side, up in the mountains where the Snow is for the ski resorts on the other so Los Angeles can have, or parts of La can have three or four inches of rain, and we might get a half inch.   Rachelle Stone ** 07:28 Wow. So it stays relatively dry. Do you? Do you ever have to deal like down here, we have something called black ice, which we get on the road when it rains after it hasn't rained in a long time? Do you get that there in California,   Michael Hingson ** 07:41 there are places, yeah, not here where I live, because it generally doesn't get cold enough. It can. It's already this well, in 2023 late 2023 we got down to 24 degrees one night, and it can get a little bit colder, but generally we're above freezing. So, no, we don't get the black ice here that other places around us can and do. Got it. Got it. So you had I obviously a fun, what you regard as a fun childhood.   Rachelle Stone ** 08:14 Yeah, I remember the first day I walked into I went to a community college, and I it was a very last minute, impulsive, spontaneous decision. Wow, that kind of plays into the rest of my life too. I make very quick decisions, and I decided I wanted to go to college, and it was open enrollment. I went down to the school, and they asked me, What do you want to study? I'm like, I don't know. I just know I want to have fun. So they said, you might want to explore Recreation and Leisure Services. So that's what I wound up going to school for. And I like to say I have a degree in fun and games.   Michael Hingson ** 08:47 There you go. Yeah. Did you go beyond community college or community college enough?   Rachelle Stone ** 08:53 Yeah, that was so I transferred. It took me four years to get a two year degree. And the reason was, I was working full time, I moved out. I just at 17, I wanted to be on my own, and just moved into an apartment with three other people and went to college and worked. It was a fabulous way to live. It was wonderful. But then when I transferred to the University, I felt like I was a bit bored, because I think the other students were, I was dealing with a lot of students coming in for the first time, where I had already been in school for four years, in college for four years, so the experience wasn't what I was looking for. I wanted the education. And I saw a poster, and it was Mickey Mouse on the poster, and it was Walt Disney World College program now accepting applications. So I wrote down the phone number, email, whatever it was, and and I applied. I got an interview again. Remember Michael? I was really bored. I was going to school. It was my first semester in my four year program, and I just anyway. I got a call back and. And I was accepted into the Disney College Program. So, um, they at that time, they only took about 800 students a year. So it was back in 1989 long time ago. And I was thrilled. I left Massachusetts on january 31 1989 in the blizzard of 89 Yeah, and I drove down to Orlando, Florida, and I never left. I'm still here in Florida. That was the beginning of my entire career. Was applying for the Disney College Program.   Michael Hingson ** 10:36 So what was that like, being there at the Disney College, pro nominal, phenomenal. I have to ask one thing, did you have to go through some sort of operation to get rid of your Massachusetts accent? Does   Rachelle Stone ** 10:50 it sound like it worked? No, I didn't have well, it was funny, because I was hoping I would be cast as Minnie Mouse. I'm four foot 10. I have learned that to be Mini or Mickey Mouse, you have to be four, eight or shorter. So I missed many by two inches. My second choice was being a lifeguard, and I wound up what I they offered me was Epcot parking lot, and I loved it, believe it or not, helping to park cars at Epcot Center. I still remember my spiel to the letter that I used to give because there was a live person on the back of the tram speaking and then another one at the front of the tram driving it to get you from the parking lot to the front entrance of the gate. But the whole experience was amazing. It was I attended classes, I earned my Master's degree. I picked up a second and third job because I wanted to get into hotels, and so I worked one day a week at the Disney Inn, which is now their military resorts. And then I took that third job, was as a contractor for a recreation management company. So I was working in the field that I had my associates in. I was working at a hotel one day a week, just because I wanted to learn about hotels. I thought that was the industry I wanted to go into. And I was I was driving the tram and spieling on the back of the tram five days a week. I loved it was phenomenal.   Michael Hingson ** 12:20 I have a friend who is blind who just retired from, I don't know, 20 or 25 years at Disneyland, working a lot in the reservation centers and and so on. And speaks very highly of, of course, all the experiences of being involved with Disney.   Rachelle Stone ** 12:38 Yeah, it's really, I'm It was a wonderful experience. I think it gave me a great foundation for the work in hospitality that I did following. It was a great i i think it made me a better leader, better hospitality person for it well,   Michael Hingson ** 12:57 and there is an art to doing it. It isn't just something where you can arbitrarily decide, I'm going to be a successful and great hospitality person, and then do it if you don't learn how to relate to people, if you don't learn how to talk to people, and if you're not having fun doing it   Rachelle Stone ** 13:14 exactly. Yes, Fun. Fun is everything. It's   Michael Hingson ** 13:18 sort of like this podcast I love to tell people now that the only hard and fast rule about the podcast is we both have to have fun, or it's not worth doing.   Rachelle Stone ** 13:25 That's right. I'm right there with you. Gotta Have fun,   Michael Hingson ** 13:30 yeah? Well, so you So, how long were you with Disney? What made you switched? Oh, so   Rachelle Stone ** 13:36 Disney College Program. It was, at that time, it was called the Magic Kingdom college program, MK, CP, and it's grown quite significantly. I think they have five or 7000 students from around the world now, but at that time it was just a one semester program. I think for international students, it's a one year program. So when my three and a half months were up. My semester, I could either go back. I was supposed to go back to school back in Massachusetts, but the recreation management company I was working for offered me a full time position, so I wound up staying. I stayed in Orlando for almost three and a half years, and ultimately I wound up moving to South Florida and getting a role, a new role, with a different sort of company called a destination management company. And that was that was really the onset destination management was my career for 27 years. 26   Michael Hingson ** 14:38 years. So what is a destination management company. So   Rachelle Stone ** 14:41 a destination management company is, they are the company that receives a group into a destination, meetings, conventions, events. So for instance, let's say, let's say Fathom note taker. Wants to have an in person meeting, and they're going to hold it at the Lowe's Miami Beach, and they're bringing in 400 of their top clients, and and and sales people and operations people. They need someone on the receiving end to pick everybody up at the airport, to put together the theme parties, provide the private tours and excursions. Do the exciting restaurant, Dine Around the entertainment, the amenities. So I did all the fun. And again, sticking with the fun theme here, yeah, I did all of the auxiliary meeting fun add ons in the destination that what you would do. And I would say I did about 175 to 225, meetings a year.   Michael Hingson ** 15:44 So you didn't actually book the meetings, or go out and solicit to book the meetings. You were the person who took over. Once a meeting was arranged,   Rachelle Stone ** 15:53 once a meeting was booked in the destination, right? If they needed a company like mine, then it would be then I would work with them. If I would be the company. There were several companies I did what I do, especially in Miami, because Miami was a top tier destination, so a client may book the lows Miami Beach and then reach out to two to three different DMCs to learn how can they partner with them to make the meeting the most successful. So it was always a competitive situation. And it was always, you know, needing to do our best and give our best and be creative and out of the box. And, yeah, it was, it was an exciting industry. So what makes   Michael Hingson ** 16:41 the best destination management company, or what makes you very successful? Why would people view you as successful at at what you do, and why they would want to choose you to be the company to work with? Because obviously, as you said, it's competitive.   Rachelle Stone ** 16:59 Everybody well, and there's choice. Everybody has choice. I always believed there was enough business to go around for everybody. Very good friends with some of my my hardiest competitors. Interestingly, you know, although we're competing, it's a very friendly industry. We all network together. We all dance in the same network. You know, if we're going to an industry network, we're all together. What? Why would somebody choose me over somebody else? Was really always a decision. It was sometimes it was creativity. Sometimes it was just a feeling for them. They felt the relationship just felt more authentic. Other times it was they they just really needed a cut and dry service. It just every client was always different. There were never two programs the same. I might have somebody just wanting to book a flamenco guitarist for three hours, and that's all they need. And another group may need. The transportation, the tours, the entertainment, the theme parties, the amenities, the whole ball of Fox, every group was different, which is, I think, what made it so exciting, it's that relationship building, I think, more than anything. Because these companies are doing meetings all over the country, sometimes some of them all over the world. So relationships were really, really important to them to be able to go into a destination and say to their partner in that destination, hey, I'm going to be there next May. This is what I need. Are you available? Can you help? So I think on the initial front end, it is, when it's a competitive bid, you're starting from scratch to build a relationship. Once that's relationship is established, it is easier to build on that relationship when things go wrong. Let's talk about what worked, what didn't, and how we can do better next time, instead of throwing the entire relationship out with the bathwater and starting from scratch again. So it was a great industry. I loved it, and   Michael Hingson ** 19:00 obviously you must have been pretty successful at it.   Rachelle Stone ** 19:04 I was, I was lucky. Well, luck and skill, I have to give myself credit there too. I worked for other DMCs. I worked for event companies that wanted to expand into the DMC industry. And I helped, I helped them build that corporate division, or that DMC division. I owned my own agency for, I think, 14 years, still alive and thriving. And then I worked for angel investors, helping them flip and underperforming. It was actually a franchise. It was an office franchise of a global DMC at the time. So I've had success in different areas of Destination Management, and I was lucky in that I believe in accreditation and certification. That's important to me. Credibility matters. And so I. Involved in the association called the association of Destination Management executives international admei I know it's a mouthful, but I wound up serving on their board of directors and their certification and accreditation board for 14 years, throughout my career, and on the cab their certification accreditation board, my company was one of the first companies in the country to become a certified company, admc certified. I was so proud of that, and I had all of my staff. I paid for all of them to earn their certification, which was a destination management Certified Professional. That's the designation. I loved, that we could be a part of it. And I helped write a course, a university level course, and it was only nine weeks, so half a semester in teaching students what destination management is that took me three years. It was a passion project with a couple of other board members on the cab that we put together, and really glad to be a part of that and contributing to writing the book best practices in destination management, first and second edition. So I feel lucky that I was in this field at a time where it was really growing deeper roots. It had been transport the industry. When I went into it was maybe 20 years young, and when I left it, it been around for 40 plus years. So it's kind of exciting. So you so you   Michael Hingson ** 21:41 said that you started a company and you were with it for 4014 years, or you ran it for 14 years, and you said, it's still around. Are you involved with it at all? Now, I   Rachelle Stone ** 21:51 am not. I did a buyout with the I had two partners at the time. And without going into too much detail, there were some things going on that I felt were I could not align with. I felt it was unethical. I felt it was immoral, and I struggled for a year to make the decision. I spoke to a therapist, and I ultimately consulted an attorney, and I did a buyout, and I walked away from my this was my legacy. This was my baby. I built it from scratch. I was the face of the company. So to give that up my legacy, it was a really tough decision, but it really did come full circle, because late last year, something happened which brought me back to that decision, and I can, with 100% certainty, say it was a values driven decision for me, and I'm so happy I made that decision. So I am today. Yeah,   Michael Hingson ** 22:57 and, and let's, let's get to that a little bit so you at some point, you said that you had burnout and you left the industry. Why did you do that?   Rachelle Stone ** 23:08 So after I did, sold my my business, I worked for angel investors for about three and a half years. They brought me in. This was an underperforming office that the franchisee, because they had owned it for 10 years, had done a buyout themselves and sold it back to the angel investors or the private equity so they brought me in to run the office and bring it from surviving to thriving again. And it took me about 18 months, and I brought it from under a million to over 5.3 million in 18 months. So it's quite successful. And I had said to the owners, as they're thanking me and rewarding me, and it was a great first two years, I had said to them, please don't expect this again. This was a fluke. People were following me. There was a lot of curiosity in the industry, because this was a really big move for me to sell my company and then go work for this one. It was big news. So it was a great time. But the expectation for me to repeat, rinse and repeat, that kind of productivity was not realistic. It just wasn't realistic. And about a year and a half later, I just, I was driving from the Lowe's Miami Beach. It's funny, because I used that as an example before, to the breakers in Palm Beach. And if you know South Florida at all, it's, it's, you're taking your life in your hands every time you get on 95 it's a nightmare. Anyway, so I'm driving from the lows to the breakers, and I just left a kind of a rough meeting. I don't even remember what it was anymore, because that was back in 2014 and I'm driving to another meeting at the breakers, and I hang up the phone with somebody my. Son calls about something, Mom, this is going on for graduation. Can you be there? And I'm realizing I'm going to be out of town yet again for work, and I'm driving to the breakers, and I'm having this I just had this vision of myself in the middle of 95 slamming the brakes on in my car, coming to a full stop in the middle of the highway. I did not do this this, and I don't recommend you do this. And I opened up my car door, and I literally just walked away from my car. That was the image in my mind. And in that moment, I knew it was time for me to leave. I had gone as high as I could go. I'd done as much as I could do. I'd served on boards, contributed to books, spoken on panels. I wanted to go back to being an entrepreneur. I didn't want to work for angel investors anymore. I wanted to work for myself. I wanted to build something new, and I didn't want to do it in the DMC world. So I went home that night thinking I was going to just resign. Instead, I wrote a letter of retirement, and I retired from the industry, I walked away two and a half weeks later, and I said I was never going to return.   Michael Hingson ** 26:09 And so I burnt out, though at the time, what? What eventually made you realize that it was all burnt out, or a lot of it was burnt out. So I   Rachelle Stone ** 26:17 didn't know anything about burnout at that time. I just knew I was incredibly frustrated. I was bored. I was over in competence, and I just wanted out. Was just done. I had done well enough in my industry that I could take a little time. I had a lot of people asking me to take on consulting projects. So I did. I started doing some consulting in hospitality. And while I was doing that, I was kind of peeling away the layers of the onion, saying, What do I want to do next? I did not want to do DMC. That's all I knew. So I started this exploration, and what came out of it was an interest in exploring the field of coaching. So I did some research. I went to the coachingfederation.org which is the ICF International coaching Federation, is the leading accreditation body for coaches in the world. And through them, I researched Who were some of the accredited schools. I narrowed it down. I finally settled on one, and I said, I'm going to sign up for one course. I just want to see what this coaching is all about. So I signed up for a foundations course with the with the school out of Pennsylvania, and probably about three weeks into the course, the professor said something which was like a light bulb moment for me, and that I realized like, oh my   Speaker 1 ** 27:40 god, I burnt out. And I was literally, at this   Rachelle Stone ** 27:46 time, we're in school, we're on the phone. It was not zoom. We didn't have all this yet. It was you were on the phone, and then you were pulling up documents on your computer so the teacher couldn't see me crying. I was just sobbing, knowing that this is i i was so I was I was stunned. I didn't say anything. I sat on this for a while. In fact, I sat on it. I started researching it, but I didn't tell anybody for two years. It took me two years before I finally admitted to somebody that I had burnt out. I was so ashamed, embarrassed, humiliated, I was this successful, high over achiever. How could I have possibly burnt out?   Michael Hingson ** 28:34 What? What did the teacher say   Rachelle Stone ** 28:37 it was? I don't even remember what it was, but I remember that shock of realization of wellness, of it was, you know what it was that question, is this all? There is a lot of times when we were they were talking about, I believe, what they were talking about, midlife crisis and what really brings them on. And it is that pivotal question, is this really all there is, is this what I'm meant to be doing? And then in their conversation, I don't even remember the full conversation, it was that recognition of that's what's happened to me. And as I started researching it, this isn't now. This is in 2015 as I'm researching it and learning there's not a lot on it. I mean, there's some, mostly people's experiences that are being shared. Then in 2019 the World Health Organization officially, officially recognizes burnout as a phenomenon, an occupational phenomenon.   Michael Hingson ** 29:38 And how would you define burnout? Burnout is,   Rachelle Stone ** 29:43 is generally defined in three areas. It is. It's the the, oh, I always struggle with it. It's that disconnect, the disconnect, or disassociation from. Um, wanting to succeed, from your commitment to the work. It is the knowing, the belief that no one can do it well or right. It is there. There's that. It's an emotional disconnect from from from caring about what you're doing and how you're showing up, and it shows up in your personal life too, which is the horrible thing, because it your it impacts your family so negatively, it's horrible.   Michael Hingson ** 30:39 And it it, it does take a toll. And it takes, did it take any kind of a physical toll on you?   Rachelle Stone ** 30:45 Well, what I didn't realize when I when I took this time, I was about 25 pounds overweight. I was on about 18 different medications, including all my vitamins. I was taking a lot of vitamins at that time too. Um, I chronic sciatica, insomnia. I was self medicating. I was also going out, eating rich dinners and drinking, um, because you're because of the work I was doing. I had to entertain. That was part of that was part of of my job. So as I was looking at myself, Yes, physically, it turns out that this weight gain, the insomnia, the self medication, are also taught signs of of risk of burnout. It's how we manage our stress, and that's really what it comes down to, that we didn't even know. We don't even know. People don't no one teaches us how to process our stress, and that that's really probably one of the biggest things that I've through, everything that I've studied, and then the pandemic hitting it. No one teaches us how to manage our stress. No one tells us that if we process stress, then the tough stuff isn't as hard anymore. It's more manageable. No one teaches us about how to shift our mindsets so we can look at changing our perspective at things, or only seeing things through our lizard brain instead of our curious brain. These are all things that I had no idea were keeping me I didn't know how to do, and that were part of contributing to my burnout. Right?   Michael Hingson ** 32:43 Is stress more self created, or is it? Is it an actual thing? In other words, when, when there is stress in the world? Is it something that, really, you create out of a fear or cause to happen in some way, and in reality, there are ways to not necessarily be stressful, and maybe that's what you're talking about, as far as learning to control it and process it, well,   Rachelle Stone ** 33:09 there's actually there's stresses. Stressors are external. Stress is internal. So a stressor could be the nagging boss. It could be your kid has a fever and you're going to be late for work, or you're going to miss a meeting because you have to take them to the doctor. That's an external stressor, right? So that external stressor goes away, you know, the traffic breaks up, or your your husband takes the kid to the doctor so you can get to your meeting. Whatever that external stress, or is gone, you still have to deal with the stress that's in your body. Your that stress, that stress builds up. It's it's cortisol, and that's what starts with the physical impact. So those physical symptoms that I was telling you about, that I had, that I didn't know, were part of my burnout. It was unprocessed stress. Now at that time, I couldn't even touch my toes. I wasn't doing any sort of exercise for my body. I wasn't and that is one of the best ways you can process stress. Stress actually has to cycle out of your body. No one tells us that. No one teaches us that. So how do you learn how to do that?   Michael Hingson ** 34:21 Well, of course, that's Go ahead. Go ahead. Well, I was gonna   Rachelle Stone ** 34:24 say it's learning. It's being willing to look internally, what's going on in your body. How are you really getting in touch with your emotions and feelings and and processing them well?   Michael Hingson ** 34:37 And you talk about stressors being external, but you have control. You may not have control directly over the stressor happening, but don't you have control over how you decide to deal with the external stress? Creator,   Rachelle Stone ** 34:55 yes, and that external stress will always. Go away. The deadline will come and go. The sun will still rise tomorrow in set tomorrow night. Stressors always go away, but they're also constantly there. So you've got, for instance, the nagging boss is always going to bring you stress. It's how you process the stress inside. You can choose to ignore the stressor, but then you're setting yourself up for maybe not following through on your job, or doing   Michael Hingson ** 35:29 right. And I wouldn't suggest ignoring the stressor, but you it's processing that   Rachelle Stone ** 35:34 stress in your body. It's not so let's say, at the end of the rough day, the stressors gone. You still, whether you choose to go for a walk or you choose to go home and say, Honey, I just need a really like I need a 62nd full on contact, bear hug from you, because I'm holding a lot of stress in my body right now, and I've got to let it out So that physical contact will move stress through your body. This isn't this is they that? You can see this in MRI studies. You see the decrease in the stress. Neuroscience now shows this to be true. You've got to move it through your body. Now before I wanted to kind of give you the formal definition of burnout, it is, it is they call it a occupational phenomenal, okay, it by that they're not calling it a disease. It is not classified as a disease, but it is noted in the International Classification of Diseases, and it has a code now it is they do tie it directly to chronic workplace stress, and this is where I have a problem with the World Health Organization, because when they added this to the International Classification of diseases in 2019 they didn't have COVID. 19 hybrid or work from home environments in mind, and it is totally changed. Stress and burnout are following people around. It's very difficult for them to escape. So besides that, that disconnect that I was talking about, it's really complete exhaustion, depletion of your energy just drained from all of the stressors. And again, it's that reduced efficiency in your work that you're producing because you don't care as much. It's that disconnect so and then the physical symptoms do build up. And burnout isn't like this. It's not an overnight thing. It's a build up, just like gaining 25 pounds, just like getting sick enough that I need a little bit more medication for different issues, that stuff builds up on you and when you when you're recovering from burnout, you didn't get there overnight. You're not going to get out of it overnight either. It's I worked with a personal trainer until I could touch my toes, and then she's pushed me out to go join a gym. But again, it's step by step, and learning to eat healthy, and then ultimately, the third piece that really changed the game for me was learning about the muscles in my brain and getting mentally fit. That was really the third leg of getting my health back.   Michael Hingson ** 38:33 So how does all of that help you deal with stress and the potential of burnout today? Yeah,   Rachelle Stone ** 38:43 more than anything, I know how to prevent it. That is my, my the number one thing I know when I'm sensing a stressor that is impacting me, I can quickly get rid of it. Now, for instance, I'll give you a good example. I was on my the board of directors for my Homeowners Association, and that's always   Michael Hingson ** 39:03 stressful. I've been there, right? Well, I   Rachelle Stone ** 39:06 was up for an hour and a half one night ruminating, and I I realized, because I coach a lot of people around burnout and symptoms, so when I was ruminating, I recognized, oh my gosh, that HOA does not deserve that much oxygen in my brain. And what did I do the next day? I resigned. Resigned, yeah, so removing the stressors so I can process the stress. I process my stress. I always make sure I schedule a beach walk for low tide. I will block my calendar for that so I can make sure I'm there, because that fills my tank. That's self care for me. I make sure I'm exercising, I'm eating good food. I actually worked with a health coach last year because I felt like my eating was getting a little off kilter again. So I just hired a coach for a few months to help me get back on track. Of getting support where I need it. That support circle is really important to maintain and process your stress and prevent burnout.   Michael Hingson ** 40:10 So we've talked a lot about stress and dealing with it and so on. And like to get back to the idea of you went, you explored working with the international coaching Federation, and you went to a school. So what did you then do? What really made you attracted to the idea of coaching, and what do you get out of it?   Rachelle Stone ** 40:35 Oh, great question. Thanks for that. So for me, once I I was in this foundations course, I recognized or realized what had happened to me. I i again, kept my mouth shut, and I just continued with the course. By the end of the course, I really, really enjoyed it, and I saw I decided I wanted to continue on to become a coach. So I just continued in my training. By the end of 2015 early 2016 I was a coach. I went and joined the international coaching Federation, and they offer accreditation. So I wanted to get accredited, because, as I said, from my first industry, a big proponent for credit accreditation. I think it's very important, especially in an unregulated industry like coaching. So we're not bound by HIPAA laws. We are not doctors, we are coaches. It's very different lane, and we do self regulate. So getting accredited is important to me. And I thought my ACC, which my associate a certified coach in 2016 when I moved to the area I'm living in now, in 2017 and I joined the local chapter here, I just continued on. I continued with education. I knew my lane is, is, is burnout. I started to own it. I started to bring it forward a little bit and talk about my experiences with with other coaches and clients to help them through the years and and it felt natural. So with the ICF, I wanted to make sure I stayed in a path that would allow me to hang my shingle proudly, and everything I did in the destination management world I'm now doing in the coaching world. I wound up on the board of directors for our local chapter as a programming director, which was so perfect for me because I'm coming from meetings and events, so as a perfect person to do their programming, and now I am their chapter liaison, and I am President Elect, so I'm taking the same sort of leadership I had in destination management and wrapping my arms around it in the coaching industry,   Michael Hingson ** 42:56 you talk about People honing their leadership skills to help prepare them for a career move or their next career. It isn't always that way, though, right? It isn't always necessarily that they're going to be going to a different career. Yep,   Rachelle Stone ** 43:11 correct. Yeah. I mean, not everybody's looking for trans transition. Some people are looking for that to break through the glass ceiling. I have other clients that are just wanting to maybe move laterally. Others are just trying to figure it out every client is different. While I specialize in hospitality and burnout, I probably have more clients in the leadership lane, Senior VP level, that are trying to figure out their next step, if they want to go higher, or if they're content where they are, and a lot of that comes from that ability to find the right balance for you in between your career and your personal life. I think there comes a point when we're in our younger careers, we are fully identified by what we do. I don't think that's true for upcoming generations, but for our generation, and maybe Jen, maybe some millennials, very identified by what they do, there comes a point in your career, and I'm going to say somewhere between 35 and 50, where you recognize that those two Things need to be separate,   Michael Hingson ** 44:20 and the two things being   Rachelle Stone ** 44:23 your identity, who you are from what you do, got it two different things. And a lot of leaders on their journey get so wrapped up in what they do, they lose who they are.   Michael Hingson ** 44:39 What really makes a good leader,   Rachelle Stone ** 44:42 authenticity. I'm a big proponent of heart based leadership. Brene Brown, I'm Brene Brown trained. I am not a facilitator, but I love her work, and I introduce all my clients to it, especially my newer leaders. I think it's that. Authenticity that you know the command and control leadership no longer works. And I can tell you, I do work with some leaders that are trying to improve their human skills, and by that I mean their emotional intelligence, their social skills, their ability to interact on a human level with others, because when they have that high command and control directive type of leadership, they're not connecting with their people. And we now have five generations in the workforce that all need to be interacted with differently. So command and control is a tough kind of leadership style that I actually unless they're willing to unless they're open to exploring other ways of leading, I won't work with them. Yeah,   Michael Hingson ** 45:44 and the reality is, I'm not sure command and control as such ever really worked. Yeah, maybe you control people. But did it really get you and the other person and the company? What what you needed.   Rachelle Stone ** 46:01 Generally, that's what we now call a toxic environment. Yes, yes. But that, you know, this has been, we've been on a path of, you know, this work ethic was supposed to, was supposed to become a leisure ethic in the 70s, you know, we went to 40 hour work weeks. Where are we now? We're back up to 6070, hour work week. Yeah, we're trying to lower the age that so kids can start working this is not a leisure ethic that we were headed towards. And now with AI, okay, let's change this conversation. Yeah, toxic environments are not going to work. Moving forward that command and control leadership. There's not a lot of it left, but there's, it's lingering, and some of the old guard, you know, there it's, it's slowly changing.   Michael Hingson ** 46:49 It is, I think, high time that we learn a lot more about the whole concept of teamwork and true, real team building. And there's a lot to be said for there's no I in team, that's right, and it's an extremely important thing to learn. And I think there are way to, still, way too many people who don't recognize that, but it is something that I agree with you. Over time, it's it's starting to evolve to a different world, and the pandemic actually was one, and is one of the things that helps it, because we introduced the hybrid environment, for example, and people are starting to realize that they can still get things done, and they don't necessarily have to do it the way they did before, and they're better off for it.   Rachelle Stone ** 47:38 That's right. Innovation is beautiful. I actually, I mean, as horrible as the pandemic was it, there was a lot of good that came out of it, to your point. And it's interesting, because I've watched this in coaching people. I remember early in the pandemic, I had a new client, and they came to the they came to their first call on Zoom, really slumped down in the chair like I could barely see their nose and up and, you know, as we're kind of talking, getting to know each other. One of the things they said to me, because they were working from home, they were working like 1011, hours a day. Had two kids, a husband, and they also had yet they're, they're, they're like, I one of the things they said to me, which blew my mind, was, I don't have time to put on a load of laundry. They're working from home. Yeah? It's that mindset that you own my time because you're paying me, yeah, versus I'm productive and I'm doing good work for you. Is why you're paying for paying me? Yeah? So it's that perception and trying to shift one person at a time, shifting that perspective   Michael Hingson ** 48:54 you talked before about you're a coach, you're not a doctor, which I absolutely appreciate and understand and in studying coaching and so on, one of the things that I read a great deal about is the whole concept of coaches are not therapists. A therapist provides a decision or a position or a decision, and they are more the one that provides a lot of the answers, because they have the expertise. And a coach is a guide who, if they're doing their job right, leads you to you figuring out the answer. That's   Rachelle Stone ** 49:34 a great way to put it, and it's pretty clear. That's, that's, that's pretty, pretty close the I like to say therapy is a doctor patient relationship. It's hierarchy so and the doctor is diagnosing, it's about repair and recovery, and it's rooted in the past, diagnosing, prescribing, and then the patient following orders and recovering. Hmm, in coaching, it's a peer to peer relationship. So it's, we're co creators, and we're equal. And it's, it's based on future goals only. It's only based on behavior change and future goals. So when I have clients and they dabble backwards, I will that's crossing the line. I can't support you there. I will refer clients to therapy. And actually, what I'm doing right now, I'm taking a mental health literacy course through Harvard Medical Center and McLean University. And the reason I'm doing this is because so many of my clients, I would say 80% of my clients are also in therapy, and it's very common. We have a lot of mental health issues in the world right now as a result of the pandemic, and we have a lot of awareness coming forward. So I want to make sure I'm doing the best for my clients in recognizing when they're at need or at risk and being able to properly refer them.   Michael Hingson ** 51:04 Do you think, though, that even in a doctor patient relationship, that more doctors are recognizing that they accomplish more when they create more of a teaming environment? Yes,   51:18 oh, I'm so glad you   Rachelle Stone ** 51:20 brought that up, okay, go ahead. Go ahead. Love that. I have clients who are in therapy, and I ask them to ask their therapist so that if they're comfortable with this trio. And it works beautifully. Yes,   Michael Hingson ** 51:36 it is. It just seems to me that, again, there's so much more to be said for the whole concept of teaming and teamwork, and patients do better when doctors or therapists and so on explain and bring them into the process, which almost makes them not a coach as you are, but an adjunct to what you do, which is what I think it's all about. Or are we the adjunct to what they do? Or use the adjunct to what they do? Yeah, it's a team, which is what it should be.   52:11 Yeah, it's, I always it's like the Oreo cookie, right?   Michael Hingson ** 52:16 Yeah, and the frosting is in the middle, yeah, crying   Rachelle Stone ** 52:19 in the middle. But it's true, like a therapist can work both in the past and in the future, but that partnership and that team mentality and supporting a client, it helps them move faster and further in their in their desired goals. Yeah,   Michael Hingson ** 52:37 it's beautiful, yeah, yeah. And I think it's extremely important, tell me about this whole idea of mental fitness. I know you're studying that. Tell me more about that. Is it real? Is it okay? Or what? You know, a lot of people talk about it and they say it's who cares. They all roll   Rachelle Stone ** 52:56 their eyes mental fitness. What are you talking about? Yeah, um, I like to say mental fitness is the third leg of our is what keeps us healthy. I like to look at humans as a three legged stool, and that mental fitness, that mental wellness, is that third piece. So you have your spiritual and community wellness, you have your physical wellness, and then you have your mental wellness. And that mental wellness encompasses your mental health, your mental fitness. Now, mental fitness, by definition, is your ability to respond to life's challenges from a positive rather than a negative mindset. And there's a new science out there called positive it was actually not a new science. It's based on four sciences, Positive Intelligence, it's a cognitive behavioral science, or psychology, positive psychology, performance psychology, and drawing a bank anyway, four sciences and this body of work determined that there's actually a tipping point we live in our amygdala, mostly, and there's a reason, when we were cavemen, we needed to know what was coming that outside stressor was going to eat us, or if we could eat it. Yeah, but we have language now. We don't need that, not as much as we did, not in the same way, not in the same way, exactly. We do need to be aware of threats, but not every piece of information that comes into the brain. When that information comes in our brains, amplify it by a factor of three to one. So with that amplification, it makes that little, little tiny Ember into a burning, raging fire in our brain. And then we get stuck in stress. So it's recognizing, and there's actually you are building. If you do yoga, meditation, tai chi, gratitude journaling, any sort of those practices, you're flexing that muscle. You talk to somebody who does gratitude journaling who just started a month in, they're going to tell. You, they're happier. They're going to tell you they're not having as many ruminating thoughts, and they're going to say, I'm I'm smiling more. I started a new journal this year, and I said, I'm singing more. I'm singing songs that I haven't thought of in years. Yeah, out of the blue, popping into my head. Yeah. And I'm happier. So the the concept of mental fitness is really practicing flexing this muscle every day. We take care of our bodies by eating good food, we exercise or walk. We do that to take care of our physical body. We do nothing to take care of our brain other than scroll social media and get anxiety because everybody's life looks so perfect,   Michael Hingson ** 55:38 yeah, and all we're doing is using social media as a stressor.   Rachelle Stone ** 55:42 That's right, I'm actually not on social media on LinkedIn. That's it.   Michael Hingson ** 55:48 I have accounts, but I don't go to it exactly. My excuse is it takes way too long with a screen reader, and I don't have the time to do it. I don't mind posting occasionally, but I just don't see the need to be on social media for hours every day.   Rachelle Stone ** 56:05 No, no, I do, like, like a lot of businesses, especially local small businesses, are they advertise. They only have they don't have websites. They're only on Facebook. So I do need to go to social media for things like that. But the most part, no, I'm not there. Not at all. It's   Michael Hingson ** 56:20 it's way too much work. I am amazed sometimes when I'll post something, and I'm amazed at how quickly sometimes people respond. And I'm wondering to myself, how do you have the time to just be there to see this? It can't all be coincidence. You've got to be constantly on active social media to see it. Yeah,   Rachelle Stone ** 56:39 yeah, yeah. Which is and this, this whole concept of mental fitness is really about building a practice, a habit. It's a new habit, just like going to the gym, and it's so important for all of us. We are our behaviors are based on how we interpret these messages as they come in, yeah, so learning to reframe or recognize the message and give a different answer is imperative in order to have better communication, to be more productive and and less chaos. How   Michael Hingson ** 57:12 do we teach people to recognize that they have a whole lot more control over fear than they think they do, and that that really fear can be a very positive guide in our lives. And I say that because I talked about not being afraid of escaping from the World Trade Center over a 22 year period, what I realized I never did was to teach people how to do that. And so now I wrote a book that will be out later in the year. It's called Live like a guide dog, stories of from a blind man and his dogs, about being brave, overcoming adversity and walking in faith. And the point of it is to say that you can control your fear. I'm not saying don't be afraid, but you have control over how you let that fear affect you and what you deal with and how you deal it's all choice. It is all choice. But how do we teach people to to deal with that better, rather than just letting fear build up   Rachelle Stone ** 58:12 it? Michael, I think these conversations are so important. Number one is that learner's mind, that willingness, that openness to be interested in finding a better way to live. I always say that's a really hard way to live when you're living in fear. Yeah, so step number one is an openness, or a willingness or a curiosity about wanting to live life better,   Michael Hingson ** 58:40 and we have to instill that in people and get them to realize that they all that we all have the ability to be more curious if we choose to do it.   Rachelle Stone ** 58:49 But again, choice and that, that's the big thing so many and then there's also, you know, Michael, I can't wait to read your book. I'm looking forward to this. I'm also know that you speak. I can't wait to see you speak. The thing is, when we speak or write and share this information, we give them insight. It's what they do with it that matters, which is why, when I with the whole with the mental fitness training that I do, it's seven weeks, yeah, I want them to start to build that habit, and I give them three extra months so they can continue to work on that habit, because it's that important for them to start. It's foundational your spirit. When you talk about your experience in the World Trade Center, and you say you weren't fearful, your spiritual practice is such a big part of that, and that's part of mental fitness too. That's on that layers on top of your ability to flex those mental muscles and lean into your spirituality and not be afraid.   Michael Hingson ** 59:55 Well, I'd love to come down and speak. If you know anybody that needs a speaker down there. I. I'm always looking for speaking opportunities, so love your help, and   1:00:03 my ears open for sure and live like   Michael Hingson ** 1:00:06 a guide dog. Will be out later this year. It's, it's, I've already gotten a couple of Google Alerts. The the publisher has been putting out some things, which is great. So we're really excited about it.   Rachelle Stone ** 1:00:16 Wonderful. I can't wait to see it. So what's   Michael Hingson ** 1:00:19 up for you in 2024   Rachelle Stone ** 1:00:22 so I actually have a couple of things coming up this year that are pretty big. I have a partner. Her name's vimari Roman. She's down in Miami, and I'm up here in the Dunedin Clearwater area. But we're both hospitality professionals that went into coaching, and we're both professional certified coaches, and we're both certified mental fitness coaches. When the pandemic hit, she's also a Career Strategist. She went she started coaching at conferences because the hospitality industry was hit so hard, she reached out to me and brought me in too. So in 2024 we've been coaching at so many conferences, we can't do it. We can't do it. It's just too much, but we also know that we can provide a great service. So we've started a new company. It's called coaches for conferences, and it's going to be like a I'll call it a clearing house for securing pro bono coaches for your conferences. So that means, let's say you're having a conference in in LA and they'd like to offer coaching, pro bono coaching to their attendees as an added value. I'll we'll make the arrangements for the coaches, local in your area to to come coach. You just have to provide them with a room and food and beverage and a place to coach on your conference floor and a breakout. So we're excited for that that's getting ready to launch. And I think 2024 is going to be the year for me to dip my toe in start writing my own story. I think it's time   Michael Hingson ** 1:02:02 writing a book. You can say it. I'm gonna do it.   Rachelle Stone ** 1:02:05 I'm gonna write a book Good. I've said it out loud. I've started to pull together some thoughts around I mean, I've been thinking about it for years. But yeah, if the timing feels right,   Michael Hingson ** 1:02:21 then it probably is, yep, which makes sense. Well, this has been fun. It's been wonderful. Can you believe we've already been at this for more than an hour? So clearly we   1:02:33 this went so fast. Clearly we   Michael Hingson ** 1:02:35 did have fun. We followed the rule, this was fun. Yeah, absolutely. Well, I want to thank you for being here, and I want to thank you all for listening and for watching, if you're on YouTube watching, and all I can ask is that, wherever you are, please give us a five star rating for the podcast. We appreciate it. And anything that you want to say, we would love it. And I would appreciate you feeling free to email me and let me know your thoughts. You can reach me at Michael H, I m, I C, H, A, E, L, H i at accessibe, A, C, C, E, S, S, I, B, e.com, would love to hear from you. You can also go to our podcast page, www, dot Michael hingson.com/podcast, and it's m, I C, H, A, E, L, H, I N, G, s, O, N, and as I said to Rochelle just a minute ago, if any of you need a speaker, we'd love to talk with you about that. You can also email me at speaker@michaelhingson.com love to hear from you and love to talk about speaking. So however you you reach out and for whatever reason, love to hear from you, and for all of you and Rochelle, you, if you know anyone else who ought to be a guest on unstoppable mindset, let us know we're always looking for people who want to come on the podcast. Doesn't cost anything other than your time and putting up with me for a while, but we appreciate it, and hope that you'll decide to to introduce us to other people. So with that, I again want to say, Rochelle, thank you to you. We really appreciate you being here and taking the time to chat with us today.   Rachelle Stone ** 1:04:13 It's been the fastest hour of my life. I'm gonna have to watch the replay. Thank you so much for having me. It's been my pleasure to join you.   **Michael Hingson ** 1:04:24 You have been listening to the Unstoppable Mindset podcast. Thanks for dropping by. I hope that you'll join us again next week, and in future weeks for upcoming episodes. To subscribe to our podcast and to learn about upcoming episodes, please visit www dot Michael hingson.com slash podcast. Michael Hingson is spelled m i c h a e l h i n g s o n. While you're on the site., please use the form there to recommend people who we ought to interview in upcoming editions of the show. And also, we ask you and urge you to invite your friends to join us in the future. If you know of any one or any organization needing a speaker for an event, please email me at speaker at Michael hingson.com. I appreciate it very much. To learn more about the concept of blinded by fear, please visit www dot Michael hingson.com forward slash blinded by fear and while you're there, feel free to pick up a copy of my free eBook entitled blinded by fear. The unstoppable mindset podcast is provided by access cast an initiative of accessiBe and is sponsored by accessiBe. Please visit www.accessibe.com . AccessiBe is spelled a c c e s s i b e. There you can learn all about how you can make your website inclusive for all persons with disabilities and how you can help make the internet fully inclusive by 2025. Thanks again for Listening. Please come back and visit us again next week.

Gladys Oliveros grew up on the hard streets of Medellin Colombia in the 80's-90's and then migrated to Boston to receive her much desired education. She has since become a cultural icon, youth mentor and a political advocate for the Latino and LGBT community. She is currently the City of Boston's Latin X advisor of Cultural affairs and is the Founder of La Casa de la Cultura in East Boston

Week 2 of testimony in the Karen Read retrial, plans to remake Maverick Square in East Boston, and coffee prices take a hike amid tariffs. Stay in "The Loop" with #iHeartRadio.

A cellphone expert took to the stand in week 2 of the Karen Read retrial, new poll on President Trump's approval ratings, and plans to redesign Maverick Square in East Boston. Stay in "The Loop" with #iHeartRadio.

Hearings are set for today in Cambridge court for the alleged buyers in a high-end brothel case. A pair of Harvard scientists sue the White House. Video captures a man illegally dumping bags of trash on the sidewalk in East Boston. Stay in “The Loop” with #iHeartRadio.

Hart, Fitzy and Johnson react to a string of frustrating stories involving the Boston Red Sox, including Rafael Devers' delayed debut, Lucas Giolito's new injury, and more. Plus, Jermaine Wiggins (aka Jermaine in East Boston) calls the show to discuss, of all things, pickles!

Hart, Fitzy and Johnson recap a historic night for Sam Hauser, which came as part of a Celtics' home victory against the Utah Jazz. Plus, the guys discuss the continued fallout from the Brad Marchand trade made by the Boston Bruins on Friday, and they debate the effectiveness of Marchand and other veteran members of the Bruins as the team's new leadership group. They also react to a string of frustrating stories involving the Boston Red Sox, including Rafael Devers' delayed debut, Lucas Giolito's new injury, and more. Then, Jermaine Wiggins (aka Jermaine in East Boston) calls the show to discuss, of all things, pickles!

(HOUR 1) Hart and Fitzy analyze the lone wide receiver signing made by the Patriots on day one of the NFL's legal tampering period, Mack Hollins, and they discuss how Hollins' skillset and personality will mesh with the 2025 team. Plus, the guys analyze the lone wide receiver signing made by the Patriots on day one of the NFL's legal tampering period, Mack Hollins, and they discuss how Hollins' skillset and personality will mesh with the 2025 team. They also react to comments made by former Bruins' captain Brad Marchand about the possibility of him returning to Boston next season. (HOUR 2) On today's Three Point Stance: Hart believes Brad Marchand will return to the Bruins after this season, Fitzy defends the Patriots' choices in their free agent spending spree on Monday, and Ted asserts that the Celtics have once again established themselves as the NBA's most dominant force. Plus, Ted Johnson shares his main takeaways from the Patriots' eye-opening spending spree on day one of the NFL's legal tampering period. The guys also discuss the future of WR Cooper Kupp, and whether the Patriots are a realistic destination for the veteran wideout. (HOUR 3) Hart, Fitzy and Johnson recap a historic night for Sam Hauser, which came as part of a Celtics' home victory against the Utah Jazz. Plus, the guys discuss the continued fallout from the Brad Marchand trade made by the Boston Bruins on Friday, and they debate the effectiveness of Marchand and other veteran members of the Bruins as the team's new leadership group. They also react to a string of frustrating stories involving the Boston Red Sox, including Rafael Devers' delayed debut, Lucas Giolito's new injury, and more. Then, Jermaine Wiggins (aka Jermaine in East Boston) calls the show to discuss, of all things, pickles! (HOUR 4) Hart, Fitzy and Johnson evaluate how the Patriots' free agent additions will impact the team's overall skill level, but also, the team's culture under new head coach, Mike Vrabel. Plus, on this edition of "Ted Talk" on WEEI Afternoons, Ted Johnson shares behind-the-scenes stories from being a free agent in the NFL, and talks about his experiences negotiating contracts with the New England Patriots. The guys also react to a comparison made by Tom E. Curran involving Patriots' QB Drake Maye on today's Odds and Ends.

We kicked off the program with four news stories and different guests on the stories we think you need to know about!Save the Harbor's 15th Annual JetBlue Shamrock Splash at Constitution Beach in East Boston on Sunday, March 2 from 11 a.m.-2 p.m. Chris Mancini – Executive Director of Save The Harbor, Save The Bay shared the event details.30% of Gen Z Won't Date Someone Who Dislikes Their Favorite Artist/Sports Team! Matt Schulz - Chief consumer finance analyst at LendingTree discussed the trend.Why Do Women Live Longer Than Men?  Dr. Berenice Benayoun, Associate Professor of Gerontology, Biological Sciences, Biochemistry and Molecular Medicine At USC Leonard Davis School of Gerontology may have the answer.Freedom Trail Foundation Revolutionary Women Tours Begin Saturday, March 1st, at 10:45 a.m. Kara Zeiberg - Freedom Trail Player - Portrays “Thankful Rice” checked in.Listen to WBZ NewsRadio on the new iHeart Radio app and be sure to set WBZ NewsRadio as your #1 preset!

Reina Carolina Morales Rojas was last seen on Saturday, November 26, 2022 when she left her apartment in her East Boston neighborhood. She was seen getting into a vehicle that was headed to Somerville - reportedly to a friend's house. She is believed to have entered that building on Alston St. That is the extent of what we know. But we didn't know it until she was missing for 45 days. The Boston Police Department would eventually acknowledge their obvious negligence in notifying the public. There was no urgency. Critical time was lost. With insights from Marcela García, the first journalist to report on Reina's case, we navigate the emotional toll on Reina's family and the systemic shortcomings in media coverage and police responses that hinder the search for justice.The initial lack of response to her case, both from the police and the media, is a factor in why it took time for her disappearance to gain wider notice. Reina Carolina had only been in the Boston area for a short time and did not speak English, which may have presented additional challenges in her disappearance. Another missing persons case in the region had taken up the air in the room. Marcela García, Associate Editor and columnist for The Boston Globe, covers a wide range of topics, from public education and immigration policy to social inequities and the Latinx community in Boston and beyond.Marcela GarcíaBoston Globe report on her visit to El Salvador: A heartbreaking visit to the hometown of a missing Boston womanWomen's Media CenterFBIMMMPACSources list at crimeofthetruestkind.comSend a message to the showSupport the showFollow Instagram | Facebook | BlueSky | TikTok | Threads | YouTube For show notes & source information at CrimeoftheTruestKind.comGive the dogs a bone tip jar: buymeacoffee.com/truestkindBecome a patron: Patreon.com/crimeofthetruestkindThis podcast has minimal profanity but from time to time you get one or some curse words. This isn't for kids.Music included in episodes from Joe "onlyone" Kowalski, Dug McCormack's Math Ghosts and Shredding by Andrew King

Harmon “Boston” Cap is the social media sensation known as “Boston The Be A Man Guy” with over 9 million followers globally, published a very successful book with the fitting title, “Be A Man: The Ultimate Guide,” where he shares funny and insightful stories and pearls of wisdom about what it takes to be a man. “Be a Man” celebrates and pokes fun at the strengths and flaws of men today in an entirely satirical (sometimes controversial) way when he offers timeless advice on how to be a man, including: — Never ask for directions, or use a GPS, just drive around forever — Fall asleep watching TV, then get mad when somebody changes the channel — If you can't fix something, chuck a wrench — If you can't find what you're looking for in a store, don't ask for help. Walk out. “The Be a Man Guy” takes his followers and readers into his early years, from learning math from his Uncle, the bookie, to discovering deep truths about life from the patrons who drank and gambled at his family's bar in East Boston. Whether in stories or one-liners, “The Be a Man Guy” will make you laugh and shake your head in recognition. “Be a Man: The Ultimate Guide” lets men of the world (and the women that might love them) know that they are not alone. Boston, has a love for racing and is a fellow automotive enthusiast.

CLNS Media's Bobby Manning and Noa Dalzell go live from the East Boston studio for a Garden Report. They discuss why Payton Pritchard could eventually replace Jrue Holiday, the implications of Jimmy Butler's potential trade in Miami, and the NBA Cup's impact on the league. The Garden Report is presented by: Prize Picks! Get in on the excitement with PrizePicks, America's No. 1 Fantasy Sports App, where you can turn your hoops knowledge into serious cash. Download the app today and use code CLNS to get $50 when you play $5! PrizePicks, run your game! Go to https://PrizePicks.com/CLNS Gametime! Take the guesswork out of buying NBA tickets with Gametime. Download the Gametime app, create an account, and use code CLNS for $20 off your first purchase. Download Gametime today. What time is it? Gametime! Terms apply. Go to https://gametime.co ! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Today, the Revolution 250 Podcast revisits an episode from 2021.  Next May will be the 250th Anniversary of the Battle of Chelsea Creek and plans are in preparation for the commemoration of this important event.The first time the patriots use artillery, the first time they sink a British ship, and the first time officers and men from different colonies stage a joint operation--the battle of Chelsea Creek, in what today are the cities of Chelsea and Revere, and the East Boston neighborhood, along an industrial waterway that still retains much of its 18th-century contour.  We hear from archaeologists Craig Brown, a PhD candidate at the University of Ediburgh,  and Victor Mastone, President of the Massachusetts Archaeology Society on this important, but little known May 1775 battle, and their work to map the site.Tell us what you think! Send us a text message!

We got some updates from Charles Loescher you won't wanna miss. Justy Boy also brought some Missed Connections and we're doing that unnamed segment about movie plots based off only their titles. www.coolparents.co --- Support this podcast: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/cool-parents/support

Dr. Zach Burns, a board-certified family medicine physician and rising leader in plant-based healthcare, recently joined Dr. Frank Sabatino on the NHA Health Science Podcast for a compelling discussion on the future of medicine. As the Assistant Director of Moving Medicine Forward, an initiative founded by the iconic Dr. Michael Klaper, Dr. Burns is at the forefront of a movement to revolutionize medical education by integrating plant-based nutrition into the fight against chronic disease. In this eye-opening conversation, Dr. Burns shared his passion for empowering future physicians to harness the transformative power of plant-based medicine to prevent and reverse the global burden of chronic illnesses. Moving Toward Plant-Based Medicine Dr. Burns' journey toward plant-based living began during his college years, where a class on American food systems opened his eyes to the realities of factory farming. This, combined with his personal background of avoiding red meat for environmental reasons, led him to adopt a vegetarian lifestyle, eventually transitioning to veganism. His philosophical studies also played a significant role in this shift, as he explored the ethics of animal treatment and questioned the superiority humans often attribute to themselves over other species. Addressing Health Disparities One of Dr. Burns' earliest experiences in healthcare came from his work with underserved communities in East Boston as part of AmeriCorps. There, he observed the devastating effects of preventable chronic diseases, particularly within immigrant populations struggling with limited access to education, nutritious food, and healthcare. This experience fueled his desire to tackle chronic disease head-on and led to his focus on the role of diet in health outcomes. The Vision of Moving Medicine Forward Dr. Burns shared the mission of Moving Medicine Forward, which seeks to fill a critical gap in medical education: the lack of training on the role of nutrition in preventing and reversing chronic disease. Medical schools often allocate minimal time to nutrition, focusing primarily on deficiencies rather than how diet can impact chronic illness. Moving Medicine Forward is working to change that by connecting with medical students, helping them form groups and advocate for plant-based education on their campuses. Dr. Burns is passionate about empowering students to create lasting change that will benefit both their future patients and the medical field as a whole. www.HealthScience.org/102-Dr-Zach-Burns 

Gabriela is a proud product of four Boston Public Schools and graduated from Boston Latin Academy. She currently lives in East Boston with her partner, Sebastian Zapata where she also grew up. Her mother played a large role in helping to shape her career in public service from an early age as she watched her advocate for her community.  Gabriela shares her background, passion for public service and exactly what her job is as a City Councilor and how she uses things like social media and coffee conversations to connect with people in the communities she serves.   Gabriela Coletta Zapata | Boston.gov    

Text the show!The Fantasy Football season is here! With Draft Day around the corner we give you our BEWARE & DO NOT Draft Players. We breakdown our thoughts on some of the biggest names in Fantasy as we prepare for the beginning of the season and share our reasoning we're staying away or proceeding with extreme caution. We're all CHAMPS and we have to continue that this season. Fantasy Breakout Players & Sleepers up next!  Join us for our 5 Year Celebration on August 17th @ Orient Heights Yacht Club in East Boston, 6:00 -10:00 p.m. Live Podcast & Music, Food & Adult Refreshments, along with New Merch!Hoodies, Crewnecks, T-Shirts, Snapbacks, and Beanies available on our website! Visit https://www.sincethesandbox.net/shop to get yours! Leave Us A Review:  https://apple.co/3dsFWTD (Scroll to the bottom of our show page and click, "Write A Review") https://www.sincethesandbox.net/leave-us-a-reviewWebsite: https://www.sincethesandbox.netInstagram: https://www.instagram.com/since.the.s...Facebook:  https://www.facebook.com/Sincethesand...YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/c/SinceTheSandboxPodcastTikTok: www.tiktok.com/@sincethesandboxSupport the Show.

Text the show!Do the 49ers have what it takes to overcome their Super Bowl woes? Will the Rams, Seahawks, or Cardinals be able to take down the division favorite? There's a lot of drama around this division starting with the Brandon Aiyuk contract situation, a new Head Coach in Seattle, a top Prospect in Marvin Harrison Jr. adding to the Cardinals passing game, and the first look at the LA Rams without future Hall of Famer, Aaron Donald. Through this episode we'll break down the NFC West as a division and discuss opportunities for rivals to make some noise.Thank you for following along our Schedule Prediction Series!Join us for our 5 Year Celebration on August 17th @ Orient Heights Yacht Club in East Boston, 6:00 -10:00 p.m. Live Podcast & Music, Food & Adult Refreshments, along with New Merch!Hoodies, Crewnecks, T-Shirts, Snapbacks, and Beanies available on our website! Visit https://www.sincethesandbox.net/shop to get yours! Leave Us A Review:  https://apple.co/3dsFWTD (Scroll to the bottom of our show page and click, "Write A Review") https://www.sincethesandbox.net/leave-us-a-reviewWebsite: https://www.sincethesandbox.netInstagram: https://www.instagram.com/since.the.s...Facebook:  https://www.facebook.com/Sincethesand...YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/c/SinceTheSandboxPodcastTikTok: www.tiktok.com/@sincethesandboxSupport the Show.

Text the show!We're back in Sammy Carlos, with the AFC West Schedule Predictions! Throughout the episode we'll discuss the opportunities for Division Rivals to dethrone the defending Super Bowl Champion, Kansas City Chiefs while contending for the 3Peat. Two new Head Coaches, Roster Overhauls, and new Quarterbacks in the division have made the route back to the top extremely difficult for the Chiefs. Will Jim Harbaugh get the best out of Justin Herbert? Can Bo Nix Successfully run Sean Payton's Offense? Will the Raiders QB Competition improve the Offense?Next up... the NFC West.Join us for our 5 Year Celebration on August 17th @ Orient Heights Yacht Club in East Boston, 6:00 -10:00 p.m. Live Podcast & Music, Food & Adult Refreshments, along with New Merch!Hoodies, Crewnecks, T-Shirts, Snapbacks, and Beanies available on our website! Visit https://www.sincethesandbox.net/shop to get yours! Leave Us A Review:  https://apple.co/3dsFWTD (Scroll to the bottom of our show page and click, "Write A Review") https://www.sincethesandbox.net/leave-us-a-reviewWebsite: https://www.sincethesandbox.netInstagram: https://www.instagram.com/since.the.s...Facebook:  https://www.facebook.com/Sincethesand...YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/c/SinceTheSandboxPodcastTikTok: www.tiktok.com/@sincethesandboxSupport the Show.

Text the show!After last season, there are legitimate questions surrounding the Dallas Cowboys and Philadelphia Eagles regarding coaching and personnel with looming contract extensions on the horizon. Can the Cowboys get over the Playoff drought? With the young core in Philly and the addition of Saquon Barkley, can Nick Sirianni lead the Eagles back to a top team in the NFC? We're back with our schedule predictions continuing with the NFC East! Can the Giants or the new look Commanders pull an upset in the division? Next up... the AFC West.Join us for our 5 Year Celebration on August 17th @ Orient Heights Yacht Club in East Boston, 6:00 -10:00 p.m. Live Podcast & Music, Food & Adult Refreshments, along with New Merch!Hoodies, Crewnecks, T-Shirts, Snapbacks, and Beanies available on our website! Visit https://www.sincethesandbox.net/shop to get yours! Leave Us A Review:  https://apple.co/3dsFWTD (Scroll to the bottom of our show page and click, "Write A Review") https://www.sincethesandbox.net/leave-us-a-reviewWebsite: https://www.sincethesandbox.netInstagram: https://www.instagram.com/since.the.s...Facebook:  https://www.facebook.com/Sincethesand...YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/c/SinceTheSandboxPodcastTikTok: www.tiktok.com/@sincethesandboxSupport the Show.

Text the show!With a healthy Aaron Rodgers, is the AFC East the Jets Division to lose ? Does the road still go through Josh Allen and the new look Buffalo Bills? We're back with our schedule predictions continuing with the AFC East! Will the Miami Dolphins be able to keep up? Next up... the NFC East.Join us for our 5 Year Celebration on August 17th @ Orient Heights Yacht Club in East Boston, 6:00 -10:00 p.m. Live Podcast & Music, Food & Adult Refreshments, along with New Merch! Hoodies, Crewnecks, T-Shirts, Snapbacks, and Beanies available on our website! Visit https://www.sincethesandbox.net/shop to get yours! Leave Us A Review:  https://apple.co/3dsFWTD (Scroll to the bottom of our show page and click, "Write A Review") https://www.sincethesandbox.net/leave-us-a-reviewWebsite: https://www.sincethesandbox.netInstagram: https://www.instagram.com/since.the.s...Facebook:  https://www.facebook.com/Sincethesand...YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/c/SinceTheSandboxPodcastTikTok: www.tiktok.com/@sincethesandboxSupport the Show.

Text the show!With a new Head Coach and Quarterback pair leading the Falcons, will Raheem Morris & Kirk Cousins get the best of the top talent Atlanta has invested in over the past few off-seasons ? We're back with our schedule predictions continuing with the NFC South! After Tampa overachieved and even won a playoff game, the Atlanta Falcons have a lot to prove in their division and conference. Next up... the AFC East.This episode was recorded and filmed at the Workbar Podcast Studio in Quincy, MA.Join us for our 5 Year Celebration on August 17th @ Orient Heights Yacht Club in East Boston, 6:00 -10:00 p.m. Live Podcast & Music, Food & Adult Refreshments, along with New Merch! Hoodies, Crewnecks, T-Shirts, Snapbacks, and Beanies available on our website! Visit https://www.sincethesandbox.net/shop to get yours! Leave Us A Review:  https://apple.co/3dsFWTD (Scroll to the bottom of our show page and click, "Write A Review") https://www.sincethesandbox.net/leave-us-a-reviewWebsite: https://www.sincethesandbox.netInstagram: https://www.instagram.com/since.the.s...Facebook:  https://www.facebook.com/Sincethesand...YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/c/SinceTheSandboxPodcastTikTok: www.tiktok.com/@sincethesandboxSupport the Show.

Text the show!After some big offseason additions, can CJ Stroud lead the Texans to be Super Bowl Contenders? We're back with our schedule predictions continuing with the AFC South! Coming off a strong rookie season and a playoff win, the Texans went all in acquiring Stefon Diggs & Danielle Hunter to improve both sides of the ball. Is this enough to not only win the South, but be a top seed in the entire AFC? Next up... the NFC South.This episode was recorded and filmed at the Workbar Podcast Studio in Quincy, MA.Join us for our 5 Year Celebration on August 17th @ Orient Heights Yacht Club in East Boston, 6:00 -10:00 p.m. Live Podcast & Music, Food & Adult Refreshments, along with New Merch! Hoodies, Crewnecks, T-Shirts, Snapbacks, and Beanies available on our website! Visit https://www.sincethesandbox.net/shop to get yours! Leave Us A Review:  https://apple.co/3dsFWTD (Scroll to the bottom of our show page and click, "Write A Review") https://www.sincethesandbox.net/leave-us-a-reviewWebsite: https://www.sincethesandbox.netInstagram: https://www.instagram.com/since.the.s...Facebook:  https://www.facebook.com/Sincethesand...YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/c/SinceTheSandboxPodcastTikTok: www.tiktok.com/@sincethesandboxSupport the Show.