Podcasts about Nikkita Oliver

What’s Trending: ABC cancels Roseanne. // Jason trolled Nikkita Oliver with a blog post about her tweets. // GUEST: Chef Brendan McGill talks about his attempt to serve a cannabis-infused “wellness drink” and the fact that King County and Kitsap County both stopped him. // Democratic veteran running for congress says “the weapons I carried in combat should not be in our streets.” Edward Snowden doesn’t really buy the idea that Trump colluded with Russians.

Today Trae connects with Nikkita Oliver, the Creative Director of Creative Justice. They'll share some details about the organization and some updates on the Creative Cafe.

This week we're looking back on our hosts' favorite moments of 2022. Check out Deaunte Damper's favorite moments from We Live In Color with the creators of Taking Black Pride, Nikkita Oliver, Rosette Royal, Brandon Sanchez, T-Dub, Cherub ONYX, and Sir Wonko. Who do you want to see this year on We Live In Color?

On this week's Hacks & Wonks, Crystal is joined by friend of the show, defense attorney, abolitionist and activist, Nicole Thomas-Kennedy! They start catching up with the Seattle City Budget. The City Council revealed their proposed budget earlier this week, and in general it proposes putting back funding for programs that were originally given fewer resources under Mayor Harrell's proposal - most notably restoring the raises for frontline homeless service workers, which were cut in Harrell's budget. The Council's proposal also uses JumpStart funds as originally intended, cuts ghost cop positions, and eliminates funding for the controversial ShotSpotter program. After the horrific incident last week that involved a shooting at Seattle's Ingraham High School, students staged a walkout and protest on Monday to ask city leaders for resources to help prevent gun violence. The students are asking for anti-racism and de-escalation training for school security, assault weapon bans, and more school counselors and mental health resources. What they have made clear they don't want is more cops in schools, but despite that Mayor Harrell and some of his advisory boards are advocating for an increased police presence in schools. Housing updates this week start with positive news: Mayor Harrell is asking for affordable housing to be exempt from the much maligned design review process. Allowing affordable housing to skip design review will encourage developers to build affordable housing, and will help us battle our housing shortage faster than we could otherwise. In frustrating housing news, KING5 released some upsetting reporting outlining some overt racial housing discrimination against Black families in Seattle, including one story about family who received a significantly higher appraisal when they dressed their home to look like it was owned by a white family.  Carolyn Bick from the South Seattle Emerald reported on potential City and State records laws violations by the Office of Police Accountability. The OPA has been manually deleting emails, or allowing them to automatically be deleted, before the two-year mark prescribed by City and State laws. It's another example of a city office failing to hold itself accountable to basic records standards.  The Seattle Department of Transportation seemed to once again be more responsive to concerns about administrative liability than community concerns about pedestrian safety amid rising fatalities. When locals painted an unauthorized crosswalk at the intersection of E Olive Way and Harvard, SDOT workers removed the crosswalk within 24 hours. This is happening while many people and business owners, most notably Councilmember Sara Nelson, have been placing illegal “eco blocks” without removals or consequences.  Finally, the Chair of Washington State Democrats is being criticized for threats to withhold resources against Washington House candidates if they showed support for nonpartisan Secretary of State candidate Julie Anderson. This is a high-profile extension of a question that party groups–big and small–are dealing with: how do we handle Democrats' support of nonpartisan or third party candidates?  As always, a full text transcript of the show is available below and at officialhacksandwonks.com. Follow us on Twitter at @HacksWonks. Find the host, Crystal Fincher, on Twitter at @finchfrii and find today's co-host, Nicole Thomas-Kennedy, on Twitter at @NTKallday. More info is available at officialhacksandwonks.com.   Resources “City Council's ‘anti-austerity' budget package: Aiming JumpStart back where it belongs, preserving parking enforcement's move out of SPD, nuking ShotSpotter, and giving mayor his ‘Unified Care Team'” by jseattle from Capitol Hill Seattle Blog   “Morales Hopes to Resurrect Social Housing Amendment That Didn't Make Balancing Package Cut” by Doug Trumm from The Urbanist   Learn more about how to get involved in Seattle's budget season at this link.   “Care, Not Cops” by Hannah Krieg from The Stranger   “Seattle proposal would free affordable projects from design review — and give all developers path to skip public meetings” by CHS from Capitol Hill Seattle Blog   “After a low appraisal, Black Seattle family 'whitewashes' home, gets higher price” by PJ Randhawa from KING5   “Why housing discrimination is worse today than it was in the 1960s” by PJ Randhawa from KING5   “OPA May Have Broken City and State Records Laws By Not Retaining Emails” by Carolyn Bick from The South Seattle Emerald    “SDOT Decries Tactical Urbanism While Allowing Eco-Blocks All Over the City” by Erica C. Barnett from Publicola    “Rent a Capitol Hill apartment from one of these companies? You ‘may have rights under antitrust laws to compensation' as lawsuit alleges price-fixing violations in Seattle” by jseattle from Capitol Hill Seattle Blog “Scoop: State Democratic Party chair under fire for alleged threats” by Melissa Santos from Axios   Transcript [00:00:00] Crystal Fincher: Welcome to Hacks & Wonks. I'm Crystal Fincher, and I'm a political consultant and your host. On this show, we talk with policy wonks and political hacks to gather insight into local politics and policy in Washington state through the lens of those doing the work with behind-the-scenes perspectives on what's happening, why it's happening, and what you can do about it. Full text transcripts and resources referenced in the show are always available at officialhacksandwonks.com and in our episode notes. Today, we're continuing our Friday almost-live shows where we review the news of the week with a cohost. Welcome back to the program, friend of the show, today's cohost: defense attorney, abolitionist and activist, Nicole Thomas-Kennedy. Hey. [00:00:54] Nicole Thomas-Kennedy: Hey - thanks so much for having me. It's great to be here. [00:00:57] Crystal Fincher: Welcome back. Great to have you back. So we have a few things going on this week. We will start with the Seattle budget. The mayor introduced his budget a few weeks back - this is now the Council, and the President of the Council, being able to introduce their own budget and their take on things. What did you see here that was notable? [00:01:21] Nicole Thomas-Kennedy: I think the things that were really notable were that JumpStart was headed back to where it was originally planned. That tax was created for affordable housing and things like that, and the mayor tried to take it a different direction that I don't think addresses the City's needs at all - so it was good to see that. Keeping - not giving SPD the money for those ghost cops - the officers that don't actually work there, that haven't actually worked there for a while - their salaries, SPD was allowed to keep for a long time, and so taking that away. And I think really most importantly - to me, given what I do - is taking out the money for ShotSpotter, which is something that the mayor has pushed really hard for, but has shown to not work and actually be detrimental to marginalized communities in other cities. And that was a million dollars, so it was great to see that taken out. [00:02:27] Crystal Fincher: Yeah, that was definitely an improvement, I think, in a lot of people's minds. That was something that did seem to be oddly championed by the mayor and very few other people, regardless of what their political orientation or leaning is. It is just something that - a decade ago, people were wondering if it had some potential, and then it was implemented in a number of cities with a number of very well-documented problems. One thing that it does not seem to be able to accomplish is to reduce gun violence, which is its ultimate goal. But it did introduce a lot of other problems. It was expensive. It seemed to increase surveillance and harassment, particularly of Black and Brown communities, without intervening or interrupting any kind of violence. And that is just an inexpensive and ineffective use of funds. Given a budget shortfall, it seems like we should not be wasting money on things that have proven not to work and not to make anyone safer. I think another notable difference in this budget, between the mayor's budget, was he had proposed a reduction in salary for some of the frontline workers for homelessness services and outreach services there. Those are critical positions and crucial to being able to address homelessness, reduce homelessness. A lot has been covered over the years across the country about how important having comfortable, well-paid frontline workers is so that they're not living in poverty, they aren't in unstable positions - creating a lot of turnover and uncertainty with the workers on the frontline - so that they do have the capacity and ability to do that kind of frontline outreach work and getting people into services that meet their needs. And so there was definitely a repudiation of the idea of reducing their pay and making sure that their pay will continue to rise with the cost of living and the Consumer Price Index. So that was nice to see. A few other things, like you talked about, just making sure that the JumpStart funds, which it seems now everybody is acknowledging, have been very helpful. And even people who previously opposed it are now backing its use to backfill their own plans. But really just making sure that it is spent in a way consistent with its original charter, basically. And so more of a right-sizing and being more consistent with the spending that Seattle voters have backed, that these candidates were elected and reelected with mandates to go forward with - that we're seeing that there. Moving forward here, there was just an opportunity for public comment earlier this year. There is one more opportunity for councilmembers to introduce amendments to this budget before it's going to be ultimately passed. So I encourage everyone, if you have thoughts about the budget, we'll include some links just explaining it. There was a really good Capitol Hill Seattle story just breaking down the budget and what's happening there to make sure we go there. But a few notable other investments from there include $20 million each year for equitable development initiative projects that advance economic opportunity and prevent displacement. $20 million Green New Deal investments each year, including $4 million to create community climate resilience labs. $4.6 million for indigenous-led sustainability projects and $1.8 million for community-led environmental justice projects. $9 million for school-based health centers, which is a really big deal, including a new $3 million across the biennium for mental health services in response to the demand for more health providers from teachers and students - we'll talk a little bit more about the student walkout and strike and their demands later in the show. Also created a combined total of $1.5 million for abortion care in 2023, to ensure access to reproductive care for uninsured people in Seattle. And a $253 million investment into the Office of Housing for affordable housing - and that's over $50 million more than the last budget for building rental housing, more supportive services, first-time ownership opportunities. I know a lot of people are also hoping that Councilmember Tammy Morales' proviso makes it back into the budget to support social housing and securing City-owned property for rental housing that has a much better shot of being able to be affordable for regular people working in the City, especially those who don't have six-figure incomes and can't afford a million dollar home. This is going to be crucial to making sure that we have dedicated land and space and capacity to build permanent affordable housing. [00:07:54] Nicole Thomas-Kennedy: Yeah, and I hope that makes it back in very - I really hope that makes it back in. The thing that I see with the Council's - what they're proposing to put back in, or the changes they're making from Harrell's budget - is most all of them address things that would enhance public safety. And when I hear about things like old technology that's been shown not to work, that gives more or giving more money to police or things like that, I think people think that that's about public safety, but it's not. Those are reactionary things, those are things that have been shown not to address the problems, we really do need to be looking at those upstream things like housing, helping marginalized communities, mental health - all of these things are things that are actually going to result in more safety for everyone. And so I'm happy to see that their proposals are addressing those things. And I hope that they make it into the final budget. [00:08:52] Crystal Fincher: I agree. And I also think that we saw - with just these past election results that we received - that residents of Seattle, really across the county, but especially in Seattle, once again, show through their votes for candidates who are talking about addressing root causes, the rejection of candidates for the Legislature for King County Prosecuting Attorney who were talking about punitive punishment-based approaches, lock-em-up approaches, which the city and the county continually have rejected. And I think voters are just at the point where they're saying, no, please listen - you have already increased funding for police, but we have these big gaps in all of these other areas that we need you to address and fill, and it's - just talking about police is doing the overall public safety conversation a disservice because it takes so many other things to make sure that we are building communities that are safer, and where fewer people get victimized, and where we are not creating conditions that cause disorder. And so I hope that they are listening. And I hope that that gives both the Budget Chair and councilmembers faith and strength and motivation to move forward with these kinds of investments in community - that center community and that center addressing the root causes of crime, preventing crime - which is the most important thing that we can do. I don't think anyone is looking around and saying - things are great, things are fine - but I think people are fed up with the inaction or bad action and ineffective action taken. So we will stay tuned and continue to report on that. [00:10:47] Nicole Thomas-Kennedy: Very helpful. [00:10:47] Crystal Fincher: We just alluded to, but talked about this week - following last week's shooting of an Ingraham High School student by another student - extremely extremely tragic situation - that student wound up dying. This is a traumatic thing for the school community to go through, for the entire community to go through. And we saw students walk out to cause awareness and with a list of demands. What were they demanding? [00:11:19] Nicole Thomas-Kennedy: I'm not going to get it perfectly off the top of my head, but they want more resources for students. They want more mental health care. They want access to those things. They want things that are preventative. They're not asking for punitive retribution or more metal detectors or cops in schools or something like that. They're asking for things that are actually going to be preventative, that are going to encourage the wellbeing of all students. And they know that that's what's going to keep them safe. And from what I've seen from SPS - they seem responsive to those demands in some way. It remains to see what will be actually followed through on. But the response I've seen so far from SPS, just being the parent of an SPS student, is that they are listening to what these kids are actually saying and what the data actually shows will make these kids safer. So I find that to be hopeful. I hope you can verbalize what their list of demands were more succinctly than that, because I don't want to misrepresent what they're saying at all. But when I read through what they were asking for and saw what they were asking for, it was all stuff that was aimed at prevention - because that's what - they don't want to be shot. And that's very valid. And they shouldn't have to worry about those things. And the things that have been implemented for years, like more police in school, those lockdown drills and things like that - it's not working. It's just like we were talking about with the budget stuff, we need to get to those root causes. [00:13:04] Crystal Fincher: You're exactly right. And what these students want really does, to your point, cover the gamut of preventative measures. So there are a few different things. One, they want the district to increase anti-racist and de-escalation training for any security at Seattle Public Schools. They also demand that the state update safe storage laws and ban assault rifles. Students asked the Council to reroute $9 million from SPD to pay for counselors. They want one counselor - to be paid a living wage - but at least at a ratio of 1 for every 200 students. Right now, the district is averaging about 1 for every 350 students, so that is a significant increase in counselors. But I don't think there is anyone here who does not acknowledge the need for more mental health resources for students. And this is especially pronounced in the middle schools across the district. So that is a pretty substantial one. They did say that they don't want cops in schools. They don't want the introduction of more guns, more people with guns in schools - but they want the things that will prevent them. They want mental health resources and community-based resources, therapy resources, and intentional de-escalation and communication training, DBT therapy training - really for students there, so they can figure out how to use words to disarm and de-escalate conflicts instead of getting physically violent, encouraging gun violence, that type of thing. They really want to - they understand that there's a gap with many kids that they're trying to navigate through and this is a normal thing for students anyway. We need to equip them with the tools to work through conflict, to work through their emotions, even when they're very big. They recognize that and they're calling for that. So these are all things that are backed by data and evidence, that have shown to reduce conflict, to reduce violence of all kinds, definitely gun violence. And that are evidence-based, have worked in other areas - pretty reasonable. And so there are a few areas where this could come from. They're certainly asking the Legislature for action, but also with the City and the mental health money. I think Teresa Mosqueda said that she was allocating $2 million and saying that's a down payment on what the students are asking for. Another source that was talked about by some people online was the Families & Education Levy in the City of Seattle, which is tailor-made for things like this. And so that, I think, should be part of this conversation going forward. But we absolutely do need more mental health resources in the schools. And we heard that post - as students were returning back to school after schools were closed due to COVID, and as they were returning, there were certainly a lot of parents who wanted to reopen schools, get their students back in there, but also talked about the challenges that students were dealing with - with anxiety and a range of mental health needs. They seemed to acknowledge that students, in connection with violent events happening and needing to deal with that - we need to figure out a way to get this done. I think the student demands are entirely reasonable and the entire community needs to listen. Now, one dimension of the story that we have seen, there was a story - and I forget at this point who came out with it - but it was like the district is exploring basically putting armed police officers back in school. Upon reading the story, it was like no, actually the district, no one in the district was considering that. The students specifically said they didn't want that. School board members said that they were not currently examining that. But it does seem like the mayor and some of his advisory boards are advocating for armed police officers to return to schools. It seems like the people directly impacted are saying, no, please no, again, not anymore. But the mayor has a different viewpoint here. How do you see that? [00:17:57] Nicole Thomas-Kennedy: First of all - yes, the student demands are very reasonable and it's, I don't know, I'm constantly impressed by youth - just how informed they are, the way they present their ideas, and just - they're deeply rooted in this. They are the ones that are impacted. We didn't have to deal with this growing up. I didn't have to deal with this growing up. I didn't have to deal with COVID. I didn't have to deal with the Internet. I didn't have to deal with guns in schools. This is new territory for these kids and they are the ones that are able to tell us what they need and they do so so well. And it is backed by data and research. And I think the mayor has suggested or wants to do this cops-back-in-school thing, but kids know this isn't what has made us safe. We have seen very, very good - horrible, tragic examples of how school resource officers fail to keep kids safe. And I think a lot of people's eyes have been open to that. And while I see the suggestion, I acknowledge the suggestion, I don't think it's serious. I don't think you can keep talking about more cops, more cops - putting more cops here - and be serious about safety. We know that doesn't work. And I think that there's enough kids, there's enough parents, there's enough people, there's enough people on the Council that know these things that - if he wants to push forward that kind of agenda, I think the pushback is going to be really big. And we can't keep pretending that that's the solution - I think that a lot of people are ready to stop doing that and to be able to push back. And I love this walkout. I think it's so encouraging that these kids are really pushing for what they know to be true. And they're not just sitting there saying, there's nothing we can do about it. They know that there's something they can do about it. So I think that's very encouraging. And I would expect that any sort of really serious pushing forward of that idea of more cops in school, I would expect there to be really very large community and student backlash to those ideas. [00:20:15] Crystal Fincher: Yeah, I think there would be pretty ferocious backlash to that. We will see how that proceeds and continue to keep you up to date on that. Now, something that Bruce Harrell announced this week, that actually seems like it's going to have a positive reception and that can move things in a positive direction - he's looking to exempt affordable housing from design review - from the much-maligned design review process. What's he proposing to do here? [00:20:47] Nicole Thomas-Kennedy: He's proposing sort of a moratorium on affordable housing projects having to go through design review. So if people don't know - design review is a lengthy process where there's - I'm doing air quotes - "community input" on housing design, and it really drags out housing projects for so long. If you see an empty lot and there's a billboard up that says that they're going to build a nine-story building with mixed use - there'll be commercial space on the bottom - and then nothing happens for years and years and years. There's a lot of reasons for that, but one of the primary ones is that really long design review process, which is shown not to be actually that democratic when it comes to the community. So exempting affordable housing from that is such a huge and awesome idea that I think someone said, why didn't we do this before when there was a homelessness crisis declared? Ed Murray could have done this when he declared that crisis, but instead that there's all these projects that are languishing and really upping the price for developers to even build these things. So I think there's - not only is it going to get affordable housing built more quickly if this is actually implemented, which I hope it is, but it's also going to make building affordable housing more attractive to developers because just having that land sit there and having those plans sit there for years and years - it makes it very expensive for developers to undertake projects. And when they do, they're going to want to get as much return on their investment as possible. And so you have to make up for those lost years of the land just sitting there. And so allowing this to go forward is going to provide more housing for the community, which we desperately, desperately need, but it's also going to encourage developers to build affordable housing over other types of housing. So I think this is fantastic and I really hope it goes through. [00:22:55] Crystal Fincher: I think it is fantastic. I think this is a good example of listening to the community. This is a win all the way across for developers who are trying to build projects more economically and more quickly, for just the community who is waiting for housing prices to be more affordable - and not just because interest rates are changing the equation for a lot of people, but to get more supply online quickly. And so this was done with Mayor Bruce Harrell and with Councilmembers Dan Strauss and Teresa Mosqueda. And it would begin a one-year interim period exempting affordable housing projects from design review and then use that trial year to conduct what Harrell says will be a full State Environmental Policy Act review of legislation to try and make this exemption permanent. And so it would permanently exempt, or they're hoping to permanently exempt, housing projects from design review - exempting housing projects that use the mandatory housing affordability program to produce their units on site for a two-year pilot and also allow other housing projects to choose whether to participate in full design review or administrative design review as a two-year pilot. So this is something that hopefully does get more affordable housing units online quickly, cut through the bureaucracy - so a positive development here and excited to see it. What I was not excited to see was a story on KING5 about one of the elements that is part of the wealth disparity, the wealth gap that we see. We've seen stories, sometimes from across the country, talking about whitewashing homes and homes owned by Black people getting lower appraisals than other homes for no other reason, seemingly, than that they're Black. And this happened with a Black family in Seattle who got an initial home appraisal - they had their family pictures in there, they had some African art up. The home was visibly owned by Black people. So with this, this family got an appraisal that was initially $670,000 - under the median home price in Seattle. They thought - well, that seems low, that seems out-of-spec for what we've seen others in this area. So they decided to take down their personal pictures. They put up pictures from a white family. They had a white friend stand in the house presented now as if it was owned by a white family. And instead of the $670,000 appraisal, they got a $929,000 appraisal. The only difference was that it was a home owned by a white person, that appeared to be owned by a white person, versus one that is owned by a Black person - right here in Seattle. What did you think of this? [00:26:09] Nicole Thomas-Kennedy: Personally, I was not surprised. I saw that this had happened in other areas. I think there was a famous example from a couple of years ago where the difference was half a million dollars. But I think that there's an idea that - in Seattle, we're so progressive, we're so liberal that this kind of thing doesn't happen here. And it does. And I think it's dangerous to think that it doesn't. I think that the Black community gets gaslighted a lot about these things when this is a really clear, very obvious example. But how many other times has this happened? Probably quite a bit. And it's really contributing to the wealth gap. And this is something that Black people have been saying for years has been happening. And it's just now starting to catch on. People are starting to catch on that this is a thing. And when I say people, I mean people who are not Black because they already know about this. But it's really starting to be something that's obvious, that's happening here, that's happening everywhere. And there's all of these little things that happen to maintain that wealth gap - because it's the appraisal value, it's also Black homeowners being targeted for mortgage takeovers by banks, by realty companies. This is not something that a lot of white homeowners deal with - I think in one of the articles, a parent had died. And so then they kept getting calls from different groups asking to buy the home for cash and asking to do some sort of weird backhand reverse mortgage and things like - there's a lot of predatory things out there aimed at Black people and Black homeowners that white homeowners don't deal with. And I'm glad to see KING5 do this story. It's awful that it's happening, but I think the public needs to know that this is something that's happening and that in progressive Seattle, we are not - by any stretch of the imagination - immune to things like this happening on a regular basis. [00:28:23] Crystal Fincher: We are not at all immune. It impacts us in so many ways. Just where we still deal with the legacy of redlining and where Black people in Black communities have been. And then as there is this new displacement happening - that kind of difference in home valuation can very much determine whether that family can afford to buy again in Seattle or be forced out of Seattle. This is just such a major problem and just another manifestation of it here. So yeah, unfortunately not something that I found surprising, but just still really infuriating all the same. And I just hope more people wake up to see what's happening and engage in how they can help make this community more inclusive and do the work that needs to be done because there is work that needs to be done. [00:29:15] Nicole Thomas-Kennedy: Absolutely. [00:29:17] Crystal Fincher: Other news this week - the Office of Police Accountability may have broken records laws in what - how they've been operating. What happened here? [00:29:29] Nicole Thomas-Kennedy: So in this case, I believe Carolyn Bick from the Emerald had put in a public disclosure request for some emails. And what she got back from OPA was that they didn't retain it because they followed SPD's policy of record retention, which is different than the City's policy of record retention, which - they say they're part of SPD or they initially said they were a part of SPD, but they're not. They're not a law enforcement agency. They're a City agency. But I would like to point out one thing too - that the City's record retention policy is wild compared to other bigger entities. If you're a City employee, you're required to archive emails or communications that could be of public interest. So instead of automatically retaining everything and then deleting spam or needing this manual deletion, you have to manually save it. But what's in the public interest is huge. So there should be a default to be saving these things all the time. And of course, we've seen with other communications, like the mayor's texts or Carmen Best's texts, that absolutely those things should have been saved and they set them to delete instead. I think the argument here is about what is the record retention policy for OPA and it's just - it's just interesting that this is the Office of Police Accountability, but yet they're not accountable for their own record keeping. And then the City Attorney's Office said, we can't give you an answer to the question about, do they have SPD's retention policy or the City's retention policy? They said that calls for a legal opinion, so we can't give you one - which to me is just like, what do you do then? Isn't that your job - to make those determinations? So just another way that the Office of Police Accountability is - it's just an HR department for SPD. They just whitewash everything and put righteous complaints through a long bureaucratic process that they tell people to trust in, that ends at being a big old nothing - that even that process - that they can't keep correct records for. So it's shocking really just how much it is all the time that we're hearing about this stuff. [00:32:11] Crystal Fincher: Yeah, I think that's what is notable to me. It's just yet another thing from a body that is supposed to hold other entities accountable - and seems to have challenges doing that - just seeming to skirt accountability itself and being a hub of so much controversy. Just really makes you evaluate - what is the purpose, what is happening, what is going on? Are we doing more harm than good here? And it just seems like we don't ever receive answers, that there are very alarming things that happen. And the answers are to - well, we'll reshuffle some staff and we won't really address the substance of what happened. We'll just call it a day, wrap it up, put a stamp on it, and close it out. We just won't talk about it anymore. It's just - what is happening, why are we doing this? And jeez, if this is just going to be a farce, can we just save the money and do something else? Why are we investing in something that continues to break rules, and to seemingly break accountability processes? Just really confusing there. [00:33:30] Nicole Thomas-Kennedy: Yeah, very much so. [00:33:32] Crystal Fincher: Also really confusing this week - SDOT once again very quickly erased a crosswalk - a crossswalk that a community put up at a dangerous intersection, that is clearly an intersection where people are designed to cross - indicated by the curb cut and the ADA-compliant rumble strip. But it was a dangerous place to cross. It was a place where community had brought up concerns that had seemingly not been listened to or addressed. They decided, as has happened before in the City, to put up their own crosswalk to increase the safety of people who need to cross the street. And there are people who need to cross the street more safely. But once again, seemingly - within 24 hours, I think - SDOT appeared and took action, not based off of calls for increased safety and taking action to make this intersection more safe, but came and removed the paint creating the crosswalk, saying for reasons of safety and liability, they can't stand by and let the community paint a crosswalk, even if it is painted to standards. But they immediately removed it. And the new head of SDOT said, hey, we are trying to move in a new direction, but we can't. We'll never be comfortable with people painting their own crosswalks for liability reasons. And then receiving pushback from the community saying, we ask you to take action to make this more safe. You don't. People get killed on the street. People get run into and hurt. Our street designs are nearly exclusively car-centric in most of the City. So hey, neighbors took action to make the road safer for their neighbors, for kids who need to cross the street, for elderly people, disabled people who need to cross the street. And it just seems that the action comes when people take their own actions - [00:35:50] Nicole Thomas-Kennedy: Sometimes [00:35:51] Crystal Fincher: - to make the street safer. That will get resources out to remove it, but we don't seem to be wanting to deploy the resources necessary to make these intersections safer. How did you see this? [00:36:05] Nicole Thomas-Kennedy: Yeah, I applaud the effort of the community to make those streets safer. And I thought that the reasoning given - safety and liability - was thin. There's nothing about not having a crosswalk that makes it safer, obviously - that's what the community has been complaining about. And in terms of liability, it's always interesting to me that the liability that they're talking about is liability for a crosswalk that, "shouldn't be there," that they didn't sanction. But apparently there's no liability for people who are continually injured or killed in a place where the community has asked repeatedly for a crosswalk. And I think that it seems disingenuous to me. And yes, and it doesn't really mesh with the other things that they're talking about. So they can have someone come out and pressure wash off something that's supposed to be for community safety - like you said, for kids, for elders, for disabled people, for everyone - because we all walk if we're able. But the streets belong to everybody. But then they'll have someone come out and pressure wash this crosswalk off overnight. But at the same time, we have seen, for over a year, these ecoblocks, the big concrete blocks - that I think the most famous example of them is Councilmember Sara Nelson putting them around her business - so RVs, or people who are unfortunately having to live in their car, can't park near her business. Those are popping up all over the City now. And SDOT says, we're unwilling to pull people off safety projects to move those. But yet, they'll get someone out there overnight to erase something that's making public safety, but they won't do anything about these ecoblocks. And I think that's really another disingenuous argument, because there is more that they could be doing about that. There's ticketing. There's not just going and every day removing whatever's put there. There's a lot of things - there's fines, there's ticketing - that they could do to discourage this, and they're just not doing it. And to me, I think back to 2020 - when SPD built that ecoblock fort around the East Precinct and the West Precinct too. They built a little fort out of these City-owned ecoblocks around their precinct. And when there was things that ecoblocks were needed for, the City said, we don't have any more ecoblocks right now because they're being used for SPD's fort. And so now it seems like we have a glut of ecoblocks in the city - they're just everywhere. So I don't really understand where they're coming from. If they're not coming from SDOT, where are they coming from? And if they're not coming from SDOT and these are people buying ecoblocks and putting them there - on city streets - seems like it would be fairly advantageous for SDOT to go and pick them up. They're on public property. We didn't have enough of them before. Why not just collect them then? Or like I said, especially when they're on a private business, there's so much more the City could be doing about it. And obviously there's someone on the Council that does it. It's never been addressed. And it shakes, I think, people's faith and trust in City government and City agencies when they so clearly don't - their actions don't match up with what they're saying that they want to do. And so I expect more of these sort of crosswalks to pop up. And the community has been having these conversations with SDOT forever and nothing has happened. If this is what's moving the conversation forward, if this is what's creating safety - to me, that's the most important thing. People shouldn't be dying on the street. That's the most important thing. So whatever creates safety, whatever moves that conversation forward to protect people's lives, I think that's great that the community is doing that. I hope it pushes the conversation forward and really creates this infrastructure that we so desperately need. [00:40:45] Crystal Fincher: Yeah, I agree. I think those ecoblocks - some people I've seen refer to them now as Nelson blocks since Councilmember Sara Nelson, despite seeming acknowledgement that they are illegal, continues to use and deploy them and exclude others from public space that they are entitled to be in. And that just does not seem to be a priority, like some other things in this community that seemingly have lower costs or impacts. But just, yeah, that the responses don't seem to make sense. The interventions don't seem to be consistent. And I would really like to hear a coherent and consistent approach to safety in Seattle. Or at least start by understanding and acknowledging that what is happening is unacceptable. And instead of running to defend - and I understand that there are concerns about liability, that is a fact - but we do need to expand the conversation to - let's be not just concerned about getting sued, let's be concerned about one of the residents in the City, that we're responsible for, being killed. Because that is happening. And what are we doing to mitigate against that risk? - is really the bottom-line question I think people want some better answers to. [00:42:12] Nicole Thomas-Kennedy: Yeah, and they deserve them. [00:42:14] Crystal Fincher: They do. Another activity that maybe deserves - some Capitol Hill tenants are suing some landlords. What's happening here? [00:42:22] Nicole Thomas-Kennedy: So they are suing - there's, I don't know if people know this, but there are a few corporations, big housing corporations that own a lot of the housing in Capitol Hill and all around Seattle. And so many of them have started using an algorithm, through a company called RealPage, that collects all the information about whatever the company-owned property is, but then also all of the surrounding properties - to raise rents. So to tell landlords the maximum asking price that they can have for rent, based on what's going on around the city, around the neighborhood, from all this data from other places. And it's caused a lot of - and it's something that these big companies can hide behind for rental hikes too - they say, oh, a computer algorithm sets our rental prices and this is what it's set as. And RealPage CEOs have been very open about saying this is more than most landlords could ask for - I wouldn't feel comfortable as a human being asking for this rent, but it's set by a computer, so I can't do anything about it. And it's really caused rents around Seattle and Capitol Hill to skyrocket. There's many factors that go into skyrocketing rents, but this is absolutely one of them. And so the lawsuit is alleging illegal price fixing by these tenants, or by these landlords. And they're not the small mom-and-pop landlords that we're talking about. We're talking about the big housing conglomerates that own so much of our rental housing here in Seattle. And it alleges that it's basically illegal price fixing by having all of these groups that just continuously raise the rent - at the same time, along the same lines - and it's driving up prices everywhere. And I'm very happy to see this lawsuit personally. Rents are out of control in Seattle, and some of that is tied to supply, obviously. Obviously, there's no doubt about that. But what we don't need is businesses taking advantage of data aggregation to make rents go higher and higher and higher. And what I hear sometimes is - the market supports this. And I think that's a really misguided argument. People need housing. It's very, very dangerous to live on the street. Nobody's living on the street because that's a good time. No one's having an urban camping vacation out there in the middle of November. People don't want to live on the street. Housing - like food, like water - is something that we all need. So just because the market supports it doesn't mean it's affordable or good for the rest of the city. When people are paying 50% or 60% of their income to rent, that hurts everyone. That makes it - as food prices go up, as rent goes up, we have people that have to lean on social services. They have to go without things that are - really, it's a detriment to our entire community. So I'm very happy to see this lawsuit. Anything we can do to bring rents down and rebalance the - there's never going to be a full balance between landlord and tenant, obviously, but there needs to be some sort of rebalancing that's going on to make it so people can actually afford to live in this city. [00:46:01] Crystal Fincher: Absolutely. We still have areas in the state where people's rent can double. We still have areas just - where we are displacing people in the name of profit. And this is an essential need. This is something that people need to survive. We are seeing an explosion in homelessness because people cannot afford a place to live. Fundamental causes of homelessness are the inability to afford rent. People try and blame - people dealing with substance use disorder or people with mental illnesses - and those are issues and often become worse issues after someone is out on the streets because that is such a rough environment. But the biggest contributor is the inability to pay rent. And that's why we see other areas that have higher instances of people dealing with substance abuse, higher instances of people dealing with those issues - that don't have the degree of homelessness that we do in areas like Seattle, where things are just simply so unaffordable for so many. So we absolutely need to do that. To your point, we need more supply and action - to get more supply is great, but we aren't going to fully address this issue until we bring this landlord and renter situation into greater balance, until there are more rent controls, renter protections in place. That is also a necessary piece of this scenario. And taking this action is necessary - what we've seen has been predatory and has contributed to homelessness. And if we don't get a handle on this, we're not going to get more people housed anywhere around here. So I think this is a justified action. I think that - no, we actually need to stand up and say, you are not entitled to ever-escalating and increasing profits on the backs of people who are providing valuable services and who are valuable people in our communities. We just can't allow that to happen. It's not that - no one can make a profit, right? It's not that we're outlawing being able to be a landlord. But there are responsibilities that should come with that. This is not just a great area for profit and speculation. You're dealing with people in their housing, you're dealing with families in their housing. And there should be a greater amount of care and responsibility that we demand from that. So I am also happy to see this happening. [00:48:55] Nicole Thomas-Kennedy: Yeah. I also think it's important to realize that when there are so many housing - when there are so many landlords and companies raising these rents - like you said, they are also causing homelessness. These rising prices cause homelessness. So what is actually happening is they are externalizing the cost of homelessness to the community while they make ever greater profits. And as I really like to point out - that this is to the detriment of everyone. So it is the community that is paying for them to make ever greater profits. And that's what we're really talking about. It's not just, people should be able to make money - of course they should be able to make money - but this is something that you can't ignore. This is not like an expensive handbag. People need shelter. And so when we are talking about those things, there will be a community cost if those things aren't brought back in line. And it's important to recognize that the market can't fix all of this. There has to be something else when it comes to things that people - that are basic human needs. And I like the idea that housing is a human right. We need it. We can't live without it. And I think that more and more people are getting behind the idea of that - that housing is a human right, that we all deserve the dignity of living in a home. But I also hope people realize that it is these profiteering landlords that are externalizing the cost of their profits to the community. So yeah, I welcome this too. It's hopeful. [00:50:45] Crystal Fincher: It is. And the last thing we'll cover today - there was a story by Melissa Santos in Axios talking about the State Democratic Party Chair under fire for being a staunch defender of Democrats Steve Hobbs, and really discouraging and going after folks who endorsed non-partisan Julie Anderson and her race against Democrat Steve Hobbs for Secretary of State. You have Joe Fitzgibbon, who chairs the House Democrats Campaign Committee, saying that Tina made threats about withholding resources from Washington House candidates because Democratic House Speaker Laurie Jinkins supported the non-partisan candidate instead of the Democrat. And then you have folks - Tina Podlodowski, certainly, but also others saying that - hey, this is what happens in the Democratic Party. Either you back Democrats or you're not. You're free to support who you want, but not within the Democratic Party. How did you see this? [00:51:58] Nicole Thomas-Kennedy: I thought this was a kind of a nothing, really. She's the Chair of the Democratic Party. Think whatever you want about Democrats - the job of the chair of the Democratic Party - there's many things to it, but pushing forward Democrat candidates, Democratic candidates, and a Democratic agenda is what she does. And I was really surprised - the headline of the article, which I know is not written by the journalist, said something about "alleged threats," which makes it sound so much more intense than it was - I think that it's - we really need to get serious about politics and about what we're doing. Republicans are on board with just voting for whoever has an R by their name, and that's something that Democrats haven't necessarily been doing. They've been trying to do that, but they haven't necessarily done it. But to think that the Chair of the Democratic Party is not going to try to push hard for Democratic candidates - I just thought was ridiculous, really. It just seemed like an absurd story. I have a limited - I had a limited experience with politics, but from what I experienced - this was nothing. This was really not much compared to what actually goes on in politics. To me, this just seems like she's trying to get Democratic candidates in there, which is what she's doing, that's what she's supposed to be doing. So I thought it was a kind of a weird story - the way it was framed, the choice of using the word "threat" without really talking about, until much later in the story, about what those "threats" really were - which were not direct, and which were about using Democratic Party funds and resources. And those are things that she's responsible for. I just really thought it was a kind of a nothing of a story, really. [00:54:09] Crystal Fincher: Yeah, I think what made it a story was that you had a House leader making these accusations directly, and that's something that we don't really see that often. And I think just the - I think it is largely to be expected that a Democratic Party Chair is not going to be happy with the endorsement of a Democrat. I think what caused more of the question is not just saying, hey, Joe Fitzgibbon or Laurie Jinkins, you took this action, and therefore I'm not happy with this - with you - and maybe not supporting you, but the extension to Democratic candidates overall across the state, potentially, because of that. Which Tina Podlodowski and her team said wasn't serious and was par for the course, after being confronted with the existence of them, after I think initially saying that nothing was said. But then, I think this is interesting - not necessarily for this instance - although I do think there's a healthy conversation to be had about is holding the support of unrelated candidates fair play or not. But also just because it does talk about - in this instance, we're talking about a nonpartisan - some of these issues become very simple if we're talking about Republicans. They become a little more complicated when we talk about nonpartisans, when we talk about - especially in the Seattle area - folks from the DSA or People's Party, who may not label themselves as Democrats, but may be aligned on values. And so, is the Democratic Party a party of a label where just the - vote blue, no matter who - if they have a D by their name, great. Or is it a party of principles underneath that label, and you're more searching for someone who adheres to those principles, which may be someone who doesn't necessarily identify as a Democrat. I think that this conversation has been happening within local party organizations for a while, and different LPOs [Local Party Organizations] have come up with different stances themselves. Some are fine with endorsing folks outside of the party if they align on values, and others are very not fine with that. I think we see where Tina Podlodowski and the State Party is on that. But it is, it's not a straightforward equation. Because you do have these resources for the - it is the Democratic Party - doesn't prevent anyone from aligning with another party in doing that. Although that's a flip remark - if you're a Democrat or if you're a Republican, that alignment comes with significant resources that are available or not available with that. So I think, especially with those resources at stake, especially with candidates who may not be affiliated, I understand where people paused and said, wait, what is going on here? But I do think there's a bigger conversation to be had just within the party about - is it about a label? Is it not? Usually that's a much simpler equation when you get to a general election in a partisan race, but we had a situation with a nonpartisan running. And in Seattle - in city council races and other local races, we have situations where non-Democrats run, who are in the same place or further to the left of Democrats. So it just really depends here. But I think there is further exploration and conversation that needs to happen about this, even on the local level. [00:58:21] Nicole Thomas-Kennedy: Yeah, I think that's - those are all really good points. And I guess, when I was running, I saw people in the LDs going hard for Nikkita Oliver, who didn't identify as a Democrat. And a lot of non-endorsements of Sara Nelson, for instance, who was a Democrat. And to me, it seemed like there was robust conversation in the LDs and they did not all agree. And they did not all do the same thing. And I - yeah, I think there is room for conversation about that. To me, it just - I get a little bit - it seems very - what am I trying to think of? What am I trying to think of when something's pot-kettle-type thing - like the right does this stuff constantly. And there's a total double standard when it comes to liberals, Democrats, progressives, the left. And I ran in a race where my opponent was not nonpartisan, but presented themselves that way. And it's hard to know, as a voter, what you're truly looking at. And so I wish - yeah, I think there - I definitely agree there needs to be a more robust conversation. At the same time, I think the Chair of the Democratic Party should probably be - whoever the Democratic Party has endorsed would be like someone that they would be pushing forward. But yeah, it does get really murky. And you're right, it comes with a lot of resources and access to voter databases and things like that - that has been shared with some groups and not others. There is - it isn't a straightforward situation, like it is with the right, where it's just - he's the nominee, so that's who we vote for - which is also breaking down on the right, it seems like, because they seem like they maybe took that too far. But there's a lot of nuanced conversation that needs to take place. [01:00:28] Crystal Fincher: And with that, I thank you for listening to Hacks & Wonks on this Friday, November 18, 2022. Hacks & Wonks is co-produced by Shannon Cheng and Bryce Cannatelli. Our insightful co host today is defense attorney, abolitionist and activist Nicole Thomas-Kennedy. You can find Nicole on Twitter @NTKallday - that's NTK-A-L-L-D-A-Y. You can follow Hacks & Wonks on Twitter @HacksWonks. You can catch Hacks & Wonks on iTunes, Spotify, or wherever else you get your podcasts - just type "Hacks and Wonks" into the search bar. Be sure to subscribe to get the full versions of our Friday almost-live shows and our midweek show delivered to your podcast feed. Please leave us a review wherever you listen. You can also get a full transcript of this episode and links to the resources referenced in the show at officialhacksandwonks.com and in the episode notes. Thanks for tuning in - talk to you next time. [01:01:19] Nicole Thomas-Kennedy: Thanks for having me - this was great.

#PodcastersForJustice Award-winning, queer, Jamaican-American writer, videographer, activist, and debut memoirist, Prince Shakur, spoke to me about James Baldwin's legacy, writing towards his father's murder, and his latest, "When They Tell You To Be Good." Prince Shakur is a freelance journalist, videomaker, and New York Times recognized organizer whose debut memoir, When They Tell You To Be Good, is about his "political coming of age in Obama and Trump's America." It is a Powell's Holiday Pick for 2022 and a TIME, Poets & Writers, Publishers Weekly, them, The Week, Debutiful, and Book Riot Best “Book of Fall.” Described as an exploration of "... his radicalization and self-realization through examinations of place, childhood, queer identity, and a history of uprisings," the memoir won the Hurston/Wright Crossover Award and has earned him residencies with Sangam House, La Maison Baldwin, The Studios of Key West, and The Atlantic Center for the Arts.  As a freelance journalist Shakur has penned numerous op-eds, essays, and features in Teen Vogue, Daily Dot, CodaStory, Cultured Magazine, AfroPunk, and more. His writings have been used in university classrooms, including Nikkita Oliver's Prison Abolition course offered at the University of Washington. Stay calm and write on ... Get 'The Writer Files' Podcast Delivered Straight to Your Inbox If you're a fan of The Writer Files, please "Follow" us to automatically see new interviews. In this file Prince Shakur and I discussed: How he hustled as a young freelance journalist The black, queer, activist experience Why he feels the need to push past the notion of "bearing witness" What it's like to navigate anti-blackness abroad The urgency of artwork in the face of death Why artist residencies and grants are so important for writers And a lot more! Show Notes: princeshakur.com When They Tell You To Be Good by Prince Shakur (Amazon) Prince Shakur on Instagram Prince Shakur on Twitter Kelton Reid on Twitter Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Deaunte Damper and We Live In Color return with a very special live episode featuring community activist and advocate Nikkita Oliver as they discuss Nikkita's work in Seattle and also what's next them

Have you ever been inspired to make a change in your community after witnessing an issue within it? Nikkita Oliver, gender fluid abolitionist, artist, educator, poet and attorney, grew up witnessing systemic injustice. Now, they are working with Creative Justice, a non-profit based in Seattle, to dismantle the school to prison pipeline. In this episode… Continue Reading How Can We Learn To Shape A Better Tomorrow? – With Community Organizer Nikkita Oliver

All My Relations is proud to offer the third episode in our series on Afro-Indigenous topics, “Black & Native Futures: Liberation and Sovereignty”, a conversation with Nikkita Oliver, hosted by Matika Wilbur and Dr. Dr. Desi. Nikkita is a scholar and activist who works at the intersection of arts, law and education. They have supported social justice efforts from No DAPL (No Dakota Access Pipeline) to working in the CHOP/CHAZ (Capitol Hill Occupied Protest/ Capitol Hill Autonomous Zone) during the racial justice movements after the murder of George Floyd.This discussion centers the importance of the collective power that Black Peoples and Indigenous Peoples have to change the systems that support racialized capitalism and oppression. We talk about real world solutions that activists and organizers like Nikkita are taking to actualize empowered Black and Native futures. We know and reiterate that our stories are intertwined and it is possible to work towards shared collective futures.Resources mentioned in the episode:Website for Nikkita Oliver3 Pillars Of White Supremacy Support the showPlease consider becoming a Patreon subscriberFollow us on Instagram+++Thanks to the AMR team that worked on this episode: Teo Shantz, Lindsey Hightower, Darrien Camarillo, Jamie Marquez-BratcherThank you to Ciara Sana from Art By Ciara  for our amazing episode artwork. #AMRPodcast #AllMyRelations #AllMyRelationsPodcast #BLM #BlackLivesMatter #afroindigenousSupport the show

Newly-elected Renton City Councilmember Carmen Rivera shares with Crystal how she prevailed as a progressive in the November 2021 election despite fearmongering and misrepresentation of her campaign. They talk about the evolution of her beliefs and values through her experiences growing up as the daughter of the first Puerto-Rican born Seattle Police Department officer to working with marginalized and underrepresented youth to teaching the next generation as a lecturer in criminology at Seattle University, and how she shared that journey with voters to illustrate that believing in abolition doesn't necessarily mean being anti-police. The two wrap up with what Councilmember Rivera hopes to prioritize as she starts the next phase of governing and words of advice for those considering their own run for office. As always, a full text transcript of the show is available below and at officialhacksandwonks.com. Find the host, Crystal on Twitter at @finchfrii, and find Carmen at @riveraforrenton   Resources City of Renton - Councilmember Carmen Rivera: https://rentonwa.gov/city_hall/city_council/carmen_rivera   “Opinion: Racism Runs Rampant in Renton” by Carmen Rivera for South Seattle Emerald: https://southseattleemerald.com/2021/03/16/opinion-racism-runs-rampant-in-renton/   “King County Conservatives Discredit Progressive POC Candidates as ‘Defund' Extremists” by Nathalie Graham from South Seattle Emerald: https://southseattleemerald.com/2021/10/28/king-county-conservatives-discredit-progressive-poc-candidates-as-defund-extremists/   “Progressives Make Impressive Gains in South King County” by Andrew Engelson from The Stranger: https://www.thestranger.com/slog/2021/11/09/62717950/progressives-make-impressive-gains-in-south-king-county   Transcript [00:00:00] Crystal Fincher: Welcome to Hacks & Wonks. I'm Crystal Fincher, and I'm a political consultant and your host. On this show, we talk with policy wonks and political hacks to gather insight into local politics and policy in Washington State through the lens of those doing the work with behind-the-scenes perspectives on what's happening, why it's happening, and what you can do about it. Full transcripts and resources referenced in the show are always available at officialhacksandwonks.com and in our episode notes. Well today, I am really excited to welcome newly elected - it's a little bit of time now but everybody is excited - newly elected Renton City Councilmember, Carmen Rivera. Hello and welcome to the show. [00:00:53] Councilmember Carmen Rivera: Hi, it's so nice to be here. Thank you for having me. [00:00:56] Crystal Fincher: I appreciate it. Well, I'm excited - as we have different conversations just around Seattle, around this region, there's been lots of talk after recent elections, elections even before that - just how are progressives faring? We have so many - in certainly in the Seattle area - races that don't necessarily include Republicans but can include people who do view things quite differently, who may both identify as Democrats or as progressive. And in conversations about the last Seattle elections, I've talked to a number of people who are like, "Wow, it's hard to be progressive and get elected. I don't know if it's even possible. How do you even do that today? Is there a backlash? What do you even accomplish? Everybody's afraid to talk about public safety now." Just all that conversation. And what was so inspiring to me about your race and some others in the region is that you didn't compromise on who you are, what you believe. You were completely consistent about wanting to move in a different direction, the urgency needed to do it, that reform wasn't going to cut it, that things need to be dramatically and drastically shifted to meet the needs of our community as it exists today. And you connected with your community - people were inspired, and engaged, and moved to action, and voted you into office. I just want to start out and understand what caused you to say, "I should run. I really want to run and I can win." [00:02:45] Councilmember Carmen Rivera: Oh wow - that is a question. I honestly, in thinking about that question, I never thought I was going to go into politics and I have to kind of give a little background. I was born raised in Renton, Washington and in the 11th legislative district. And my mom was a very active Democrat when I was in middle school and high school. And in turn, I was very active in the 11th LD Democrats. And so I think the Democratic Party values were instilled in me at a young age and I saw the importance and the power of political organization and community organization and how those things can come together and create real change. And I saw a lot of the toxicity and negativity in politics. When my mom ran - she actually ran against Bob Hasegawa for his Representative House seat back in 2003 and she also ran for city council - and I saw her lose every time and it was really difficult. I saw how hard it was on her and how much it weighed on her mentally and emotionally. And I saw the toxicity in politics and I was so turned off from it that I didn't want anything to do with politics. I went right into college, studied criminal justice, and wanted to be a police officer and follow in my father's footsteps - he was a Seattle police officer for 38 years. And it was actually through my career in working at Echo Glen Children's Center in juvenile rehabilitation, and then working for King County at YouthSource - working with marginalized and underrepresented youth - that my shift of thinking happened. And it was actually seeing the racial and ethnic disparities, not only at the state level, but at the county level as well, that really made me look more at a critical criminologist approach to our justice system - or injustice system, I think, better to describe it. And it was through those experiences of working at the state, working for the county, and then entering academia that I studied and learned that what we've been doing historically hasn't been working. And I learned through teaching, through my students, that if we want to see real systemic change, it's a marriage between organization and politics and policy. And I did not want to be a hypocrite. I wanted to be the change that I wanted to see in the world and I wanted to be the role model that I tried to exemplify for my students. And I felt in 2020 very compelled to educate myself and work in the advocacy around educating people around abolition and defunding and what those things mean because there are not a lot of people with my background - my educational background and my privilege, my educational privilege and my position in criminal justice, in academia - that were properly educating and discussing abolition. I think the only other person that I know of is Nikkita Oliver and their curriculum on abolition that they posted on, I think it was Google Drive in 2020, is what really helped me expand my purview and expand my way of thinking. And really understand that we need to approach things at the root and we need to attack things at the root and go to the core if we're going to really see again that systemic change. And so when 2021 came around, I was approached about running for Renton City Council. And I had been chewing on it since summer of 2020 actually. And it was some votes and decisions that had been made later in the year around the Red Lion Hotel and things that I've just seen in my entire life. I'm 32, going to be 33 years old, and I was born and raised in Renton. And I had seen things that hadn't shifted from when I was in middle school or high school and that wasn't okay with me, and I just felt called to it, and I felt supported by my community to do it. And I wasn't sure if I was going to win. I just knew that I had to try and I felt confident that I was the best person for the position and that the city council needed someone from my background, my experience and my purview to contribute to the decisions that were being made. [00:07:05] Crystal Fincher: So how did your campaign unfold? What was that whole time and process like? [00:07:11] Councilmember Carmen Rivera: Well, I was approached, like I said, in summer of 2020 by some friends who fanned a flame inside of me. And in January-February, I had gotten more involved in what was going on in the community in Renton - in particular, an instance of racism that happened in February of 2021 in downtown Renton. And I wrote an opinion piece called, Racism is Running Rampant in Renton. And I felt it was necessary to share my purview and my perspective, and I think it's important to call out racism and call out also just incidences of racism that are rooted deeply in our culture and our society - because in order to address a problem, solve a problem, you need to address the problem first. You need to call it out. You need to know what the problem is. And so for me, that was really important. And it was from all of that that people were like, we think that you are somebody that could do really good things on the level of city council. And I actually thought that opinion piece was going to hurt my campaign. I thought that if I were to run, which I launched in April, that article might hurt me more than help me, and I'm still - the jury's out on that. I don't know if that article hurt me or helped me when it came to my campaign. It wasn't a strategy by any means. The two were not really connected - but from my opinion pieces that I've written and the organization that I've done, my campaign got a lot of support from community and I was really shocked and pleasantly surprised by how many people supported me and how many people were excited for my race. And it was a thick race. We had five people running for Renton City Council Position 2, including the incumbent who had been appointed over a year prior. And it was contentious. And yeah - I don't know really where else to go from there. [00:09:10] Crystal Fincher: It was contentious - certainly following along with it, it was definitely contentious. I think what was exciting for me to watch throughout that process - some of it was infuriating - and that article, as any time people speak out against racism as it's happening, particularly as BIPOC speak out against racism, there is a predictable backlash from people who don't want anything to change, who don't want to talk about it, don't want to draw attention to it. It's working for them, they see no reason - that is always going to happen. And that in and of itself prevents a lot of people from speaking out. And so there's this perception that that is the dominant view, that that is something that you just can't overcome and should be avoided at all costs - just don't create the controversy - it's not worth it, it could hurt your campaign, all of that stuff. But what we also saw was you were telling the truth and people heard it and understood it and are like, finally, there is someone who isn't afraid to look at the sky and call it blue. To just talk about what is happening. And that building trust - that hey, if Carmen is willing to speak out on these issues, even though conventional wisdom, whatever that is, is that this is risky and should be avoided, we can trust her to speak out about the things that matter when she's in a greater position of power. We can trust her to really understand where we're coming from and speak for us, to us, that we are included in your vision for governing. And that energizing people who may not have been energized by politics before, and who may have been disillusioned, or just haven't seen anyone who they feel really gets them and is speaking to their needs. And it's not like it was just a small coalition, or just BIPOC, or just young people. It was so many people in the community because - when elements of the community are being marginalized and harmed, we all feel the effects. It's just whether or not we're acknowledging them. And so many people saw it. As things are going along and they're contentious in your campaign and you continue just to speak the truth as you see it - an educated truth - it's not like you just woke up one morning and decided to talk. You have lived here, lived abroad, highly educated, as you say, deeply steeped in academia, have both professional and lived experience. You're coming from a place that is very informed with a lot of data behind you to back you up. But that didn't mean that you didn't even face opposition from other members on the council - where it wasn't just a conversation - and a lot of the typical ways that a campaign unfolds between the candidates. But some institutional actors were not that happy with what you were talking about because you weren't sugar coating what you felt was needed to keep everyone in the community safe. How did you approach navigating through that? And what did that feel like as you were going through it? [00:12:34] Councilmember Carmen Rivera: It was a learning experience. I'm an imperfect person and I have been described in many ways - inaccurately - I've been described as a bull in a china shop, feisty, spicy. Very passionate I think is probably a more accurate way that people like to describe me. Again, all of these adjectives have something in common when you're describing a Latina or a biracial woman of color. And I do have white presenting privilege because I only see the sun for six months in Washington, which happens - I lose my melanin. And so it's interesting because I kind of feel like I was raised in two worlds, and that I think helped in how I navigated a lot of this. And I was told, "Don't talk about white supremacy. Don't talk about racism. Do not talk about abolition and do not talk about defunding." I was told straight up not to talk about those things and to avoid them. Those things came up because of the tactics that were used by conservatives this last election cycle. We saw those tactics used against Nikkita Oliver. We saw those tactics used against Nicole Thomas-Kennedy. Two, I think, highly qualified people who I was disappointed in their particular races when we're talking about those Seattle races. They really got a lot of grief for their educational backgrounds and their perspectives. And I was, I think, compared to them a lot. And I took that as a compliment because Nikkita Oliver teaches at SU Law and is an incredibly intelligent human being. Same - Nicole Thomas-Kennedy, an incredibly intelligent human being. And I think there was a lot of fearmongering and polarization that was used against them in their campaigns. The same was used for me and I think that was because - when people don't know something, they don't understand something, they're scared of it. And I am a very, very strong cup of coffee. I like my coffee black and I think that's also how I come off to the rest of society - is I'm just very direct and I'm very blunt. And like I said, you have to be able to address the problem and know what the problem is in order to solve it. And when we look at who is in control in politics and I'm talking about - I teach social control and deviance, I teach critical criminology, I teach juvenile justice. And when you look at the people who are in power in politics, the majority of people who are elected officials are white men. The majority of prosecutors in this country are white men. The majority of educators and the educational academia lens, especially in higher ed, is that of white men. And if we look at our media, our media and media that we consume, is I think owned by less than a dozen major conglomerate of media companies - also majority owned by white men. When you look at the data of who is running our society, it is a white supremacist society. And that doesn't mean that people are walking around in KKK hoodies and robes and this stereotypical idea of what white supremacy is. White supremacy is pervasive and deeply rooted in our society and that's what I like to try to teach and educate around. And that's what I tried to stick with in terms of just talking to people. I knocked on - ooh, I want to say over 6,000 doors and I just spoke to people like I would speak to my students, from an academic background but also someone who saw the academics in real life when I worked at the state, when I worked at the county, when I worked with my students. I saw the disparities. I've seen it. And like you said, I'm highly educated and so I think I just tried to meld those two together. Because also education is, and higher ed in particular, is another system that is rooted in white supremacy and I've also had to unlearn some of my privileges and things rooted, I think in elitism, that is also very pervasive in academia. And so just coming from all of that and learning how I've navigated myself as someone who's worked in social services, and worked with marginalized populations, and worked with youth - and I've learned a lot from them and have also - I put my foot in my mouth. I've made mistakes. 10 years ago I was telling juveniles, "Just pull yourself up with your bootstraps." That's not what we tell juveniles. That's not what you should be telling juveniles. And I learned that through working with juveniles and working with these kids that are incredibly resilient, intelligent, and are amazing members of our community. And because of our injustice system, they have been written off and they have been labeled and they have been othered. And that I think is the fault of a capitalistic society that we live in, that is rooted again in white supremacy. And that's something again, we just need to address if we're going to be able to root out and create a more equitable society for especially our biracial and our Black and Brown Indigenous youth. [00:17:48] Crystal Fincher: One of the things I think is a pervasive conversation in political circles is - yeah, we know white supremacy is a problem. We're dealing with and impacted by it every day. We can catalog on a daily basis how it's a problem for us, people we know, number of things like that. And we can talk about it to each other a lot of times. But people struggle when it comes to talking about someone - to your point, who may not have been exposed to different data points, different points of view, may not have been educated, may just have heard what the conventional wisdom is and - hey, there's a problem with crime, and cops prevent crime and solve crime, and we're safer when there are more of them on the streets. And if we just obey the law and are good people, then everything will be fine. And wow, I hope that works for someone out there. It doesn't work for a lot of people. As you're encountering people in the community who you've had to talk through this, who you've had to connect with your message and who came to you skeptical, questioning, doubting, this seemed like you were just some extremist Antifa - throw all of those Fox News buzzwords at you. How did you engage with the community? Because you can't be elected without doing that. How did you have conversations with people who were like, "I don't know about this," - where did you start and how did that go? [00:19:33] Councilmember Carmen Rivera: Ooh, that's a great question, Crystal. I will say honestly and I'll say it to you right now - I don't agree with our two party system. I think our two party system is flawed and problematic, and I think we are more fractured as a nation than we've ever had. I'm 32 going on 33, and I lived through Clinton, Bush, Obama, Trump and now Biden. And I feel like we are more split as a country than we ever have been. And we're even seeing those cracks and those fractures within our own party. The Republicans seeing it I think on a smaller level - the conservatives on a smaller level - but the Democrats, we're fractured as a party because politics and I think democracy and the Republican conservatives progressives, it's a spectrum. It's not either or, it is a spectrum. And that's how I would start a conversation - is saying, "I view it more as a spectrum." And just because I have certain ideas and upbringings - my parents, they fall on the more conservative end. My father was a Seattle police officer for 38 years. He - what's the word I'm looking for - he perpetuated a policing institution, again rooted in white supremacy, even though he was a man of color. And he engaged, I think, in some problematic policies around the War on Drugs and around crimes against society. And I struggle with the fact that we live in a society that has to be so polarized, and is so split, and everything has to be either-or and not yes-and. And so I think the hardest for me, and what was easy also, was when I got labeled anti-police - I'm not anti-police - that was just an honest thing. And that's a struggle because people believe that if you are an abolitionist or believe in abolition or teach abolition, you also need to adopt the idea of ACAB and being anti-police. I understand the ACAB perspective and I understand those perspectives - I don't agree with them and I don't adopt them. It's a struggle for me, honestly, and I do struggle with cognitive dissonance as well, and I was very honest about that, in being raised with police privilege - being raised around police officers and being very comfortable with them and also understanding that there are friends and people in my life as I grew older, who they did not see police as equated to safety or security. They were seen as dangerous and they were fearful of them, and those were valid feelings. And I had to learn that those are valid feelings and I had to unlearn a lot of things as well. And I shared that journey when I was talking to voters. And the biggest feedback I got was - you need to spend less time talking to voters. Only five minutes, only five minutes. Couldn't do it. I love talking to voters, I love sharing my experience, love sharing my perspective - the fact that I do see both sides because I was raised in a very pro-police family. And I was raised in Seattle Police Guild picnics around other police officers and around SPOG. I - very familiar with that culture. And as someone who also grew out of it and did not follow my father's career - I fell more into social services and doing direct service with again, youth who were incarcerated, who were marginalized, who fell through the cracks, who were survivors of the school to prison pipeline and victims of the school to prison pipeline. I saw a different side of our injustice system and I took all of the privilege and things I learned from my police family background to understand why people who I think have that bias are so resistant to the Defund and abolition movement. And I used the fact that three years ago I was a stark reformist - I was very much on the reform spectrum. And academically I've done a 180 because of everything I've seen and witnessed and learned in the last two years. And I think we are ever evolving creatures - that I am evolving to learn that we need to adopt ideas rooted in abolition in order to really create systemic change and root out institutional bias. And that is just a pragmatic approach that I have. And some people see it as radical - and I tell those people, "Well, if radical is reaching at the root and ripping it out from the root, and that's what we need to do in order to see any real change - and change that's going to happen in my lifetime." And when I say that - I'm a realist. I am inspired constantly by my students. My students, they want to learn more about abolition. They want to learn about critical race theory and critical criminology. They are hungry for it and they are the ones who inspire me and make me believe that we are going to see real systemic change and rooting out institutional bias in their lifetime and hopefully in my lifetime because I have the honor of teaching them. And I think they are the ones who are going to go into these professional fields and really be the ones who carry the torch. [00:24:56] Crystal Fincher: Yeah. I am with you that the younger generation is so inspiring. I feel corny when I say it but like Whitney said it, "I believe the children are our future." They are doing things that are so impressive and they are unwilling to accept the excuses that too many of us - in my generation, older generations - have accepted that have allowed things to reach this point and have gotten to a breaking point in so many things. I appreciate your openness and honesty just about - hey, you've been on a path and been on a journey. Which I also think we need to embrace and talk about and understand is real. Not everybody starts from a place of being ultimately educated and even if we have lived experience and a ton of education in one area, it doesn't mean that that applies to everything else. We're evolving and learning and growing. I certainly identify with your conversation about - no, I also am not an ACAB person. I can certainly see - and maybe it's just because some places that I've been, people that I've known - the options for getting out of a path that has no future in so many areas in our country are - those paths are rigged. And it's not a coincidence that that has people wind up in the military, wind up in the Border Patrol, wind up in police departments. And while there are certainly people who are looking to exercise dominance as they walk in, I don't think every single officer walks in saying, "I'm going to cause a problem." - that there's so much propaganda about policing being noble and you do really help people, that if you aren't in a place where that is actively challenged, you walk in thinking that's what it is. And the institution is extremely flawed and you have to question the function of the institution if its outcome has so consistently contradicted that for a significant segment of society and even within our community. I appreciate the ability to have that conversation. And I appreciate that you talk about knocking on 6,000 doors and having real conversations with real people. I don't know if people who are listening have ever doorbelled and door knocked - you should - you should actually volunteer on a campaign that you believe in and see what it's like to have conversations with regular people at their regular places and to talk about the types of things that are weighing on their minds. It gets you out of this insidery conversation - everybody's interested - as people who are in advocacy or activism or policy, sometimes those are real echo chambers. And regular people may have the same root concerns and just may not have the time, inclination, ability, financial security to be able to engage on these issues to the level of someone else, or have just never encountered anything to trigger a questioning of what's going on. Those conversations are so important. So you have a lot of those, you go through the campaign, it was rough, it was contentious. You wind up getting through the general and then you wind up ultimately pulling ahead in - as votes are tallied - and winning. And so what did that feel like? Just that moment, what did that feel like? [00:28:58] Councilmember Carmen Rivera: I'm going to get emotional. Oh wow. Oh my gosh. Oh, Crystal, Crystal. I will say the campaign was the hardest thing I've ever done in my life and everything I went through - to finally be able to win, it was a win for the community. It was so much bigger than me. I'm emotional because it wasn't about me at all. It was about the community. It was about Black and Brown bodies in Renton, and the LGBTQ community, and marginalized voices that were underrepresented in a city that raised me. And I cry because I'm just so grateful to the voters. When you win by 620 votes, when you win by four points, I'm grateful to the voters for seeing me and not feeding into the fearmongering and the othering and the labeling because I spoke with voters who agreed with me a lot and also disagreed with me. And they were receptive, because more often than not - and it was because we know in odd year elections, older voters tend to come out more. And I'm so grateful to the older voters who were like, it's time to pass the torch onto the younger generation. It's time that we give up power and we stop doing what we've been doing historically and we hand over the reins to people who have more energy, who have a fresh perspective. And that they believed in my message and they, again, they didn't fall victim to the fearmongering and the mislabeling, because as much as I was labeled as a radical progressive, there are progressives out there who will also still see me and say, "Well, she's not as progressive as some people." I am not as progressive, I believe, as Nikkita Oliver and that's okay. Again, it's a spectrum. And to conservatives, I was incredibly progressive and it was a moment for the community. And it was the fact that we won over fearmongering, we won over radicalized conservatism. And it was just, it was a community win. And because again, it wasn't for me. It was so much bigger than me - because after I got through the primary and the five-man race turned into a two-man race, me and my opponent. And me and my opponent were polar opposites. It was actually very reflective, I feel like, of the Seattle Attorney race actually, because in that same race, we saw the incumbent also not make it through the primary, and it was actually two very opposite candidates that made it through into the general - same thing happened in my race. And so winning also meant winning over that radicalized old school mentality of white supremacy, of misogyny, of radicalized racially rooted views of how we view minorities - and who are actually not minorities, we are now a global majority, but people of color and queer people and people who are different and gender nonconforming and trans people. My opponent had used some really awful verbiage in the past historically and it was about not letting that win, not letting that mentality and that way of thinking and that radicalization win. And I get emotional because it was for community and we won. [00:32:50] Crystal Fincher: And you won. And so, it's such an incredible thing because campaigns are hard. You are putting yourself out there for inspection, for criticism, for commentary, and people will overlook your humanity and say all sorts of things and do all sorts of things. But it also is a beginning. Now the work of governing begins and now it's time to deliver on the promises that you made when you were running, to enact the agenda and start to work on your priorities. What are you working on? What are you prioritizing? And how's it going? [00:33:31] Councilmember Carmen Rivera: Well, I am learning a lot. I learned, near the end of my campaign - I did not enter my campaign knowing that because the position was filled by an appointee, I would take over the minute that the results were certified. When I started my campaign, I actually thought I was going to take office in January 1st - so you believe you're going to have some time when the election ends in early November, before you start on January 1st. That was not the situation for me. I started on November 30th, so I had no breathing room. And so it's kind of been like drinking from a fire hose is how people describe it - that's very accurate. I'm learning. I'm appreciative of my fellow councilmembers that are - I don't want to go so far as to say mentoring or taking me under their wing, that inquires some sort of hierarchy or condescension. There's none of that in our relationship. I'm grateful to my fellow councilmembers - Ryan McIrvin, Kim-Khánh Văn, and Ed Prince - who have included me in conversation and met with me and are just open to giving me the feedback that I want. I love feedback and I love constructive criticism and I know I'm imperfect. And so I'm grateful to learn from them. I'm grateful to even - I've been able to meet with Mayor Pavone and Ruth Pérez and be able to bury the hatchet and be able to hopefully work together and effectively together for the betterment of Renton. Because I don't just represent myself, I represent the people who elected me and not even the people who elected me - everybody in the city of Renton. We as the city council, we are the people who represent the community and the city to the city. And we're a very mayor-heavy city. And so for me right now, it's learning and holding true to the values of bringing public service and social services and the priority of human services to the city of Renton. And so I am trying to do that with challenging, respectfully, some ways that we are allocating funds. We had a very good conversation on Monday, on Renton City Council, regarding our ARPA funds. And even though we did not come to an agreement - I did not agree with how the financial committee report that was passed - and that is democracy. And that is okay. That was a voted majority on how those funds were going to be allocated. And I am happy that we are able to allocate money for body cams and finally get body cams implemented for Renton police department and in the city of Renton because that is long overdue. And as we are approaching the end of the year, we're on a biannual budget year. The city of Renton has a very, very large budget and so - that happening this year - I'm going to make sure that we prioritize community services, human services and the new equity, housing and human services division. There was a new department that was formed in the last year. And I think it's equity, housing and human services, and making sure that that department is not just a throwaway department for equity, housing and human services but is a highly utilized department that is properly funded and informed and supported to be effective. I am a big believer that our government should help support our most marginalized and help combat the effects of the capitalist society that we have created. And I want to bring my experience in human social services to the forefront, and when we are allocating funds for our budget and making sure that we are getting the most bang for our buck, like I said on the campaign trail, and being really critical of how we are going to spend our funding, especially this year when we're allocating that budget. Those are my big priorities and I am one of seven. It's going to be me partnering and working with my other councilmembers to educate them and bring them along my journey with me, and help them hopefully see things from my perspective and my purview, and respectfully disrupting the status quo to really bring Renton ahead of the curve. [00:37:38] Crystal Fincher: Well, I appreciate having this conversation with you. I appreciate the way that you have engaged with everyone in the community throughout your campaign and continuing as you govern. It is so important to be able to have conversations, if you're running for office, with everyone and to meet people where they're at and understand that - I have a vision that I would love to help you see - and to do that work of helping them to see it, and to connect it to the values that they hold and the values that people like to feel in their community, and coming with concrete solutions. And you weren't just talking about some pie in the sky ideas, you were talking about policy that had application that has had demonstrated results elsewhere, as things that have been tried weren't working, and your ability to walk people through that was something that I certainly appreciated. As we are closing our time here today, we're in mid-February as we're talking right now. A lot of people are considering whether or not they should run this year for the legislature, or for their county council, or - other counties are having county council elections, not King County. But that maybe they should take that step. And certainly people who are like, well, I see myself as an activist. I see myself - I don't necessarily see me in all of these halls of power. Do I actually belong? Is it worth it? Is it worth even expending that much energy? What would you say to people who are in that position? What advice would you give them as they consider whether or not they should take a step towards public service? [00:39:36] Councilmember Carmen Rivera: I would have them ask themselves what they want to change. What do you want to change? And at what level? What do you want to see changed in your community and at what level? And that should give you your answer. What is your passion? Is it equity? Is it healthcare? Is it housing? Is it human services? Is it police accountability? At what level can you see that change really being made realistically? At the municipal level? At the legislative level? At the county level? At the public hospital commission level? There are so many different levels of government that you can create real change. Don't limit yourself and, respectfully, have the confidence of a mediocre cis heterosexual white man and go forth. And the worst thing's going to happen is you're going to fail and you're going to learn so much in that process, because in order to really succeed, you need to fail at least a 100 times. And it is incredible that I was able to win my race and I hope that people can look at my race and my campaign and my experience last year, and my experience and my journey today, and see themselves a little bit and see that they can do it too. Because we did it in Renton. We did something that was almost impossible in Renton and it happened. And so I hope that it gives hope, I hope that you go forth and just do it with every ounce and fiber of your being. Don't leave anything at the finish line - like I want you crawling on your hands and knees crossing that finish line at the end, and just know that's what it's going to take. It's going to take support from your family, from your friends, and a really good consultant. That's another thing - make sure you get a good consultant. [00:41:22] Crystal Fincher: Yeah. You know I'm amen-ing that. Absolutely. Thank you so much for taking the time to speak with us today. You're welcome back anytime - as you're working on different things and you want to talk about it, feel free - but just appreciate you and hope you all have a wonderful day. [00:41:40] Councilmember Carmen Rivera: Oh my gosh. Thank you for having me. And I would love to come back and have any kind of conversation. This has been great and I truly appreciate it. Thank you so much. [00:41:49] Crystal Fincher: I thank you all for listening to Hacks & Wonks on KVRU 105.7 FM. The producer of Hacks & Wonks is Lisl Stadler with assistance from Shannon Cheng. You can find me on Twitter @finchfrii, spelled F-I-N-C-H-F-R-I-I. Now you can follow Hacks & Wonks on iTunes, Spotify, or wherever else you get your podcast - just type "Hacks & Wonks" into the search bar. Be sure to subscribe to get our Friday almost-live shows and our midweek show delivered to your podcast feed. If you like us, leave a review wherever you listen to Hacks & Wonks. You can also get a full transcript of this episode and links to the resources referenced in the show at officialhacksandwonks.com and in the episode notes. Thanks for tuning in. We'll talk to you next time.

The police cannot be reformed. This is the assertion of human rights lawyer Derecka Purnell. Instead, she believes, new systems need to be created to address the root causes of violence. Since the police cannot be reformed, they should be abolished. In Becoming Abolitionists, Purnell highlighted social movements and activists through time and space, the lessons learned from them, and the elements of policing that no longer serve us. From South Africa to Ferguson, Missouri (where the Black Lives Matter movement was ignited after the police shooting death of the unarmed Black teenager, Michael Brown); from Reconstruction to contemporary protests against police shootings, Purnell looked at the roots of police reform and the ways it has failed and will continue to fail. Instead, Purnell asserted, society needs to eliminate its reliance on policing. The prison-industrial complex must be dissolved. Communities must rebuild labor organizing and disrupt wealth inequality. Laws must be passed around prison labor, voting rights, gun ownership, campaign finance, and decriminalize thousands of behaviors. Social workers and mental health experts need to be on the front lines. This all is a daunting list to get through. It might not be done tomorrow, but, again, a young Black life might be lost tomorrow. Derecka Purnell is a human rights lawyer, writer, and organizer who works to end police and prison violence by providing legal assistance, research, and training in community-based organizations through an abolitionist framework. Her writing has been published in The New York Times, The Atlantic, The Guardian, Cosmopolitan, Harper's Bazaar, and Teen Vogue, among many others. Purnell has also appeared on NPR, Democracy Now!, Slate's What Next, and MSNBC, and is the former Editor-in-Chief of the Harvard Journal of African American Public Policy. She holds a JD from Harvard Law School. Nikkita Oliver (they/them) is a Seattle-based creative, community organizer, abolitionist, educator, and attorney. They are the executive director of Creative Justice, an arts-based alternative to incarceration and a healing, engaged, youth-led, community-based program. Oliver organizes with No New Youth Jail, Decriminalize Seattle, Covid-19 Mutual Aid Seattle, and the Seattle People's Party. They have been featured on the Breakfast Club, KUOW's The Week in Review, and The Late Night Show with Stephen Colbert, and their work has been seen on the South Seattle Emerald, Crosscut, the Establishment, and more. Darnell L. Moore is a media maker, educator, writer, and thought leader whose work on marginal identity, equity, and social justice has enabled him to be in community with those creating impact in the U.S. and abroad over the past two decades. A prolific writer, Darnell has been published in various media outlets including the New York Times Book Review, MSNBC, The Guardian, Quartz, Playboy, Huffington Post, EBONY, and many more, as well as in numerous academic journals. He is the recipient of many honors for his work, including the New York Times Notable Book of the Year and the Lambda Literary Award for his 2018 title, No Ashes in the Fire. He is currently Director of Inclusion for Content and Marketing at Netflix. Buy the Book: Becoming Abolitionists: Police, Protests, and the Pursuit of Freedom (Hardcover) from Elliott Bay Books Presented by Town Hall Seattle. To become a member or make a donation click here. 

GUEST: Nikkita Oliver, Candidate for Seattle City Council, District 9 (they/them pronouns) // Proof of vaccine required in King County on Monday // SCENARIOS See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Thursday, October 14 on Urban Forum Northwest: CANDIDATES FORUM *Toshiko Grace Hasegawa is a candidate for the Seattle Port Commission Position 4. *Sara Nelson is a candidate for Seattle City Council Position 9. *Stephanie Bowman is a candidate for reelection for Seattle Port Commission Position 3. *Nikkita Oliver is a candidate for Seattle City Council Position 9. The Northwest African American Museum (NAAM) is coordinating the effort to commemorate the 60th Anniversary of the Reverend Dr. Martin Luther King Jr.'s only visit to Seattle. We will feature some of the committee members over the next three weeks for the November 5,6,7 event. *NAAM MLK Committee Members: Josh Griffin, Program Operations Manager, Center for Communications, Differences, and Equity (CCDE) at the University of Washington. Jaebadiah Gardner, Owner, GardnerGlobal. Urban Forum Northwest streams live at www.1150kknw.com and Alexa. Visit us at www.urbanforumnw.com for archived programs and relevant information. Twitter@Eddie_Rye. Like us on Facebook. This program will also air on Saturday 7:00-8:00 am (PDT)

Thursday, October 14 on Urban Forum Northwest: CANDIDATES FORUM *Toshiko Grace Hasegawa is a candidate for the Seattle Port Commission Position 4. *Sara Nelson is a candidate for Seattle City Council Position 9. *Stephanie Bowman is a candidate for reelection for Seattle Port Commission Position 3. *Nikkita Oliver is a candidate for Seattle City Council Position 9. The Northwest African American Museum (NAAM) is coordinating the effort to commemorate the 60th Anniversary of the Reverend Dr. Martin Luther King Jr.'s only visit to Seattle. We will feature some of the committee members over the next three weeks for the November 5,6,7 event. *NAAM MLK Committee Members: Josh Griffin, Program Operations Manager, Center for Communications, Differences, and Equity (CCDE) at the University of Washington. Jaebadiah Gardner, Owner, GardnerGlobal. Urban Forum Northwest streams live at www.1150kknw.com and Alexa. Visit us at www.urbanforumnw.com for archived programs and relevant information. Twitter@Eddie_Rye. Like us on Facebook. This program will also air on Saturday 7:00-8:00 am (PDT)

If you had to explain the differences between the candidates for Seattle City Council Position 9 in two sentences, you could start with the ideological abyss that separates Nikkita Oliver and Sara Nelson.

Greg and Munya are joined by star Nikkita4Nine volunteers and campaign workers Aun, Sunny, Rico, and Iman. We discuss Nikkita Oliver's campaign for Seattle City Council Position 9, why they decided to volunteer, memorable stories from canvassing people's doors, getting to know our neighbors, and why the fight for city council matters for the future of the city we love.

Missed the Hacks & Wonks consultant roundtable? Never fear! On today's show you'll catch up on the first half of it. Consultants Riall Johnson of Prism Consulting, Michael Charles of Upper Left Strategies, and Heather Weiner join Crystal to discuss the results of the primary elections earlier this month, and what we can expect from the rest of election season. On today's show they discuss the mayoral primary election results, Charter Amendment 29 / Compassion Seattle, and the primary results for City Council Position 9 (City Wide). As always, a full text transcript of the show is available below and at officialhacksandwonks.com. Find the host, Crystal Fincher on Twitter at @finchfrii, Michael Charles at @mikeychuck, Heather Weiner at @hlweiner, and Riall Johnson at @RiallJohnson. More info is available at officialhacksandwonks.com.   Resources Watch the entire consultant roundtable here: https://twitter.com/finchfrii/status/1425987129218240517?s=21 “Bruce Harrell, M. Lorena González eye November race after dominating Seattle's mayoral primary” by Daniel Beekman from The Seattle Times: https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/politics/bruce-harrell-m-lorena-gonzalez-eye-november-race-after-dominating-seattles-mayoral-primary/ “2021 Primary Precinct Results Show Familiar Rich vs. Rent-burdened Battle Lines” by Doug Trumm from The Urbanist: https://www.theurbanist.org/2021/08/19/2021-primary-precinct-results-show-familiar-rich-vs-rent-burdened-battle-lines/ “The C Is for Crank: Correcting the Record on Compassion Seattle” by Erica C. Barnett at Publicola: https://publicola.com/2021/07/13/the-c-is-for-crank-correcting-the-record-on-compassion-seattle/ “Seattle mayoral race filled with ads, PAC money, and cash” by David Hyde and Gracie Todd at KUOW: https://www.kuow.org/stories/as-candidates-court-voters-with-campaign-ads-pac-cash-flows-into-seattle-s-mayoral-race “Where This Year's Campaign Money Is Coming From” by Erica C. Barnett from Publicola: https://publicola.com/2021/06/15/where-this-years-campaign-money-is-coming-from/ “Seattle's 2021 primary just set up a ‘battle royale' in November” by Angela King from KUOW: https://www.kuow.org/stories/seattle-primary-sets-up-battle-royale-in-november “Nikkita Oliver overtakes Sara Nelson to assume the lead for Seattle City Council #9” by Andrew Villeneuve: https://www.nwprogressive.org/weblog/2021/08/nikkita-oliver-overtakes-sara-nelson-to-assume-the-lead-for-seattle-city-council-9.html Carolyn Bick's coverage of policing for the South Seattle Emerald: https://southseattleemerald.com/?s=carolyn+bick   Transcript Crystal Fincher: Welcome to Hacks & Wonks. I'm your host Crystal Fincher. On this show, we talk to political hacks and policy wonks, to gather insight into local politics and policy through the lens of those doing the work. And, provide behind the scenes perspectives on politics in our state. Full transcripts and resources referenced in the show are always available at OfficialHacksAndWonks.com, and in our episode notes. Hello, welcome to the Hacks & Wonks Post-Primary Consultant Round Table. I'm Crystal Fincher, the host of Hacks & Wonks, and a political consultant. And today, I'm thrilled to be joined by three of my favorite political consultants, to break down what happened and last week's primary election. First, I want to introduce Riall Johnson. Hey, Riall, thank you for joining us. Also, Heather Weiner. Hello. And, Michael Charles. So, I just wanted to start off by letting you give a quick synopsis of what you've been doing, what you're working on this cycle, and the types of races that you work on. So, I will start with Riall. Riall Johnson: Hi, thanks for having me. Riall Johnson, manager of Prism Washington. We've work on a lot of progressive campaigns around the region. We had about 16 candidates running this year for office. 12 of them were people of color, 15 of them ended up making it through the primary or didn't have a primary. So, we count those going through. So, hopefully, all 50 of them can win the general, but a lot of, just really focused on helping candidates that usually don't have the institutional support getting that leg up, especially at the beginning of the campaign, to make it to overcome those hurdles, and making more people from the community run for office. Crystal Fincher: Thank you. And, Michael Charles. Michael Charles: Great. My name is Michael Charles. I'm the managing partner of Upper Left Strategies. We have about eight candidates this cycle, which I did 15 before Riall, That's why I don't have any hair anymore. But yeah, we're excited. But we're similar to Riall. We work with progressive folks. We really like challenging the establishment and taking on tough races that people don't expect our folks to win. And we really like to do good job and get out there and win. So, we're excited this cycle, to have a lot of good candidates, countywide and citywide, and we're just excited about the work we're doing. And, thanks for having me here today. Crystal Fincher: Absolutely. And, Heather Weiner. Heather Weiner: I am so honored to be here with you Crystal and also with Riall and Michael, who have just been kicking some serious butt over the last few years, and particularly, in this cycle. In contrast, I'm only working as a consultant with Lorena González. Who's running for mayor in Seattle. And most of the campaigns that I'm working on, are not on the ballot this year. They're mostly issue in legislative campaigns. Crystal Fincher: You said that super, all modest, only working on Lorena González. Basically, if you want to win a ballot initiative, you call Heather Wiener, is basically where we're at. Well-known for so many big progressive wins. So, thrilled to have you along with Riall and Michael Charles here, with Crystal Fincher with Fincher Consulting. I have worked with a lot of candidates. Now, mostly focusing on ballot initiatives and independent expenditures, but I wanted to kick off this conversation, starting off, looking at the Seattle mayoral race. Heather, you just mentioned that you're working with Lorena González, who was one of the two candidates who made it through, along with Bruce Harrell. So, starting off, what do you think of the results? Was this what you were expecting? And? what do you think this says about the voters in Seattle? Heather Weiner: Well, let me give you, first, my spin answer. Oh, yeah. We knew that Lorena was definitely going to be in the top two, and come within two points. That seems totally natural and we just totally thought that that was what's going to happen. Okay. Now, let me give you the real answer. Oh, my God. We were blown away. We knew we were going to be in the top two, but we thought that Bruce Harrell would have a larger lead, at this point, that he would have coalesced some of the Republicans/more conservative elements. And, particularly with the results that we saw in some of the other races, we definitely thought that Lorena would be in the twenties. So, we were very surprised at her great showing there. And, I do have to say a lot of that had to do with name recognition, of course. Also, the amazing amount of support that she got from labor. And also, I think the people who are informed voters in the primary being concerned about, Bruce Harrell, making it through. So, I was very excited. And in fact, I think, made a fool out of myself in the party, some bloggers and reporters reported on somebody running around cheering and making an ass out of herself. And that, I will 100% admit, was me. Crystal Fincher: So, for Michael and Riall, we all saw the public that was done in this. So, I'm sure we all heard about some of the internal cooling from the campaigns that showed a lot of voters, the majority of the voters undecided heading into the final stages of the primary campaign. But, I think it's fair to characterize the polling as showing Bruce and Lorena González in the lead. Bruce, usually, leading those as Heather mentioned, by a wider margin. Then, we saw in the actual results. But, we also saw that Colleen Echohawk seem to have more traction in polling, then resulted in the final election tally that Jessyn Farrell was talking about different stuff. So, what do you think accounts for the polling that we saw and the difference in the results that we got? Michael Charles: I do think that these folks were really independent, or they were undecided at the time, but as I've stated many times on your show, that I think there's two parties in Seattle now, it's the Seattle Times and it's The Stranger. And, those two make up the bulk of voters in Seattle, now. And if you get The Stranger vote, you're going to make up the mind to a lot of those undecided voters that were deciding between Colleen. And I thought that The Stranger actually, devastatingly for Colleen, made a pretty good argument for why you wouldn't want to vote for her. Crystal Fincher: What do you think, Riall? Riall Johnson: Yeah. The Stranger and the times are really big forces in terms of the primary vote and who else gets through. One thing I know is, I worked with Andrew Grant Houston (Ace). We had a lot of people that gave vouchers to Andrew, but they still voted for Lorena. Basically, out of a lot of fear for someone, they feel that Lorena was the person that could beat Bruce. And, it's a valid argument, that you're afraid of giving us some money and then and then voted for someone else, because they didn't probably didn't feel Ace had the name recognition to get to the general. Well, like I said, it's disappointing. And of course, on my end, but also, you see why it happened. And I think what's like other candidates, people always talk about wanting to change and new, but also experiencing new recognition still hold strong in a lot of things.   Riall Johnson: And I think that's what Lorena did. She did a great job of wrapping up a lot of the union support, I think coalescing in progressive organizations show that she built a good coalition of progressive establishment support, which I think, really carried her through. And, that's what The Stranger saw. I think Colleen, I was actually, even when we first heard about Colleen, excited about, I think you saw like who was supporting her and the policies. There wasn't really a lot lining a lot with Bruce, I think, which made people fall off in the end, and then when people, primary numbers do look at platforms and they see what that Lorena's platform was more of on progressive side, than they were with Colleen. And I think that's what helped, in the end, probably steer people away from Colleen towards Lorena.   Heather Weiner: I really wanted to find out from you two, what you thought about some of the negative messaging that was out there, from people on the right who were sending out, the Seattle is dying type mail. Seattle had enough, was a mail that I saw. Did you think that that would depress votes, do you think that's motivating to voters? What do you think is the interaction with that kind of campaigning?   Riall Johnson: It probably depresses you, because voter turnout was low. Way lower than I expected. I was hoping there would be some residual voter turnout increase from the 2020 election, where 75%, 85% of Seattle voted. And now it's down to, 36% right now. Something like that, but we're going to probably crack for you hopefully by the end, maybe. So, it's lower than it was two years ago, I think, it looks like, so far. The Seattle is dying message has been going on for 100, years as we've seen it. It's like, if it's not dead by now, then Seattle is just immortal. And, I think that the whole point is like, people are catching on, that it's just right-wing propaganda to say, like, the fastest growing in the country, is dying.   Riall Johnson: And it's just like, if it's dying, how come there's so much economic boom here? The only thing that I'll say is, Seattle is actually choking and it's choking the poor, and it's choking the working-class because people are getting priced out, because the rich here, are thriving so much in this booming the city. And, that's why we see people just... you If anything is dying, it's like, we're getting pushed out because of just the unfair... If anything is the right wing haven. I always joke about Seattle just because there's no income tax, billionaires live here for a reason. They get to crap on poor. I'm not allowed to cussing here, I would. And, the police get to get away with anything they want. It's just like, this is not the progressive city we live in. And I think, that narrative of Seattle dying, it's just more just demonizing homeless and demonizing poor people that make it feel like, people feel just because they see homeless is icky, and they want to just sweep them away with police. One thing that resonate is that, I think-   Michael Charles: Yeah. That's what I was going to say too, Riall, around the homelessness. And I think that, this election is so much about homelessness. It's the top issue. Everybody wants to talk about homelessness. And, I think if anything, that messaging drove people to think, who has the vision that's in line with me about how I think homelessness can be solved in the region. And I think that, especially considering that I feel like this electorate is probably the most conservative electorate you'll see every four years, which is post presidential election, primary in a city. It's going to be the most conservative electorate we can see, which I also think speaks to how powerful, or what strong positioning Lorena's in. And, that was literally the most conservative electorate we're going to see. And if she's only two points behind, that really makes me feel like she's connecting, clearly, on some issues with some folks, that otherwise wouldn't feel the same. And if anything, I think that actually helped Lorena in that case, to be honest, where a lot of the people that are tired of this messaging of Seattle's dying or like, I'm just tired of hearing it. So, they're going to vote for somebody that they think, actually, is the opposite of that. And so-   Heather Weiner: It's so interesting, because we know we did some polling about public safety issues. Because we saw some of the polling that was coming out of other... I was in the public polling that was talking about, oh, people are really scared. There's a big safety issue going on. People are really scared about crime. And certainly, you would think so, in seeing KIRO, KOMO, Q13, some of the mainstream media coverage of this, but when we actually ask people, "Well, how safe do you feel in your neighborhood?"   Heather Weiner: 83% said they felt very safe. So, we feel scared about what's happening somewhere else because that's what we're being told to feel. But, what we see with our own eyes and our own neighborhoods is, yeah, there are people who are living on the street and they are human beings and they are my neighbors, and I feel compassion and empathy to them. And we can also talk about Compassion Seattle. I hope that's on the agenda.   Crystal Fincher: It is on the agenda.   Heather Weiner: Before I give up the mic, let me just say, shout out to Riall, who helped his candidate max out on vouchers. He was the first one to help his candidate max out on vouchers, in the mayoral campaign, which is mind boggling hard, particularly for a candidate that most people haven't heard of. And then the second thing is, your candidate, Andrew, was so smart. So on-message, so unapologetic about the positions that he was taking. I think he did drive the narrative and drive the message and drive the debate on it. And so, I'm going to be able to say sorry. I'm sorry to not have him at those the upcoming forums. I really enjoyed having him there. I was totally into his headbands.   Michael Charles: And, Riall is unquestionable at getting vouchers at this point. I just think everybody needs to know that, that is undoubtedly the case.   Crystal Fincher: Absolutely. There is not anyone who is in the same tier, as Riall and Prism, when it comes to voucher game. Extends into regular signature gathering. Just fantastic, incredible job. And you just set a new bar throughout this cycle. The other thing-   Michael Charles: When you're making an establishment, you're managing to do something right.   Crystal Fincher: Yes.   Riall Johnson: They only had a few hearings about it.   Crystal Fincher: Change some rules in the middle of the cycle. One thing I wanted to just circle back on a little bit was, talking about the whole Seattle is dying narrative, which clearly didn't carry like people thought it would carry. And I think we've talked about this on the show before, but that is such a narrative. I think people confuse that narrative. I think sometimes, there are some entities when you look at historically like their cost per vote are very bad. A lot of times the more, business focused chamber candidate ask those ies, a lot of times, they're are not the most efficient at driving out votes.   Crystal Fincher: And it takes all that money that they throw at candidates, to drag them across the finish line. But that Seattle is dying narrative, does not work in Seattle. And I think, sometimes, people have some blinders on, within Seattle, thinking that that's an effective thing, when really that narrative works for people who are not familiar with Seattle, who don't live in Seattle, who are outside of Seattle. That's where that's gaining traction. But as you mentioned, Heather, that polling matches up with everything that we've seen before. And that, people who live in Seattle, don't feel that. They don't feel that as they're walking through their neighborhood, that they feel like they're in danger. They don't feel like, "Oh, the city that we thought we knew that this was utopia, is now this barren wasteland." And, there's lawlessness and anarchy and seeing the...   Heather Weiner: Well, let's be honest. There are a lot more people who are living on the street. And, with people living on the street, we are seeing, we are visually experiencing more trash or seeing people who are suffering more, we're seeing more drug use. And as a result, we all feel very uncomfortable. But, let's go back to what Riall was saying, which is, when you're talking about who's to blame here and what really the problem is, the problem is that, the money that was taken out of housing, out of mental health, out of treatment services back in 2011 by the State Legislature, was never put back into those budgets. And the cities and counties have then been left with the bill. And they are the ones who are now responsible for taking care of people who are being evicted, who can no longer pay the rent because of the recession, for the expansion of substance use disorder, because of trauma. And as a result, who's got to pay? And let me just go here and channel Andrew Grant Houston and say, big corporations are the ones who have got to pay, because they are the ones who are hoarding the wealth. Okay. I'm not running for office.   Crystal Fincher: Well, so I guess that, that is an interesting conversation. And looking at some of the other candidates, I guess a couple things. One, it appears that candidates who did favor the Compassion Seattle amendment, got more votes than candidates who did not favor the Compassion Seattle amendment, with the caveat that this is a primary election that we-   Michael Charles: But it was only Jessyn and Bruce, right, that really we're in favor of it, right?   Crystal Fincher: And Casey Sixkiller.   Michael Charles: And Sixkiller.   Crystal Fincher: Yeah.   Heather Weiner: Oh, yeah. Okay. That's right. That's probably true.   Riall Johnson: Colleen was, and then she wasn't.   Heather Weiner: And then she wasn't.   Michael Charles: Yeah. She's like half.   Heather Weiner: Yeah, yeah. Pretty close. Somebody who's listening, do the math.   Crystal Fincher: Yeah. It was there, but it was a primary electorate. There is not much messaging about Compassion Seattle. To your point, Heather, we're just getting started with the citywide conversation on Compassion Seattle. And, I think part of the challenge of it, as someone people who listened to Hacks & Wonks are not going to be surprised that I oppose the Compassion Seattle Charter Amendment 29, because it's codifying suites and doesn't do much to actually solve the root problems that cause homelessness. But, the messaging on it, the name, Compassion Seattle, the headlines that you hear on the evening news, it guarantees money to be spent on services and provides a humane, compassionate way to address the problem. Those are all things that people want. And, we haven't really gotten into a wide discussion city-wide or communication to people who don't pay attention to politics that much, on what the details of this actually are, and how might differ from the rhetoric there. So, candidates like Jessyn Farrell and Bruce Harrell, supported it. Do you think that is going to help or hinder them in the general election?   Riall Johnson: I think it's going to hinder them. We had to contend with these people on the streets and it was just a horrible initiative there. One night on the streets. And it was just like, they would try to take over terse on where people gathering voters were. Heather experienced it. So, you just use people. The way they did about that, they were just trying to bully their way into this initiative, and then bully in their way on the ballot. And it was really easy to get someone to see the side of things, if you pitched things right...   Riall Johnson: Because, that messaging, they would just say, it's going to help the homeless. Anything you can say can help the homeless' assaults objective. And, everyone wants to help the homeless, but the question is, what are they going to do about it? This whole thing about guaranteeing money, we've already been spending money on the homeless. Question is, what we do with it. People keep trying to blame the council for the problems. At this point, I can blame the council for, or get mad at them. But the thing is that, council is only like 20% of power, in the city. The rest of it resides in the mayor.   Riall Johnson: And we have had a corporate conservative mayor, for the last three decades. Maybe with the exception of Mike McGinn, he had his issues. With Ed Murray and Jenny Durkan, Tim Burgess and Bruce Harrell, who was also here, the last five mayors, and any before that. It's just been, corporate supported backed mayors, have just done with the corporations, one of them to do with Seattle and always giving police more money, giving corporations whatever they want, and then stripped funding. Even if when they get funding, they just don't spend it on housing or homeless situations. They just spend it on sweeping them, and sweeping money the other way. So it was like, we said we'd put money in it. We've been putting money at the sweeps, not even foreign money, actual housing. And, the mayor is the plane for all that, because council has given the mayor money for this, and mayor just doesn't choose it use it.   Riall Johnson: And people need to realize, the power resides in the mayor's office. That's why Andrew ran the first place. He's like, "We can be the most progressive City Council ever. We can be nine out of nine progressive City Council." Well, I think unless the mayor actually does what we ask them to do, which they have the choice not to. And, Durkan has been declining these choices in the county, misusing this money. There's not much a council can really do in the city. And, the thing is, unless they get they can do more to approve both, but we don't have that full progressive council. It's funny how they only try and blame Kshama or Tammy or the three per actual progressive, or the councils, or four progressive... But, they don't have the full power. Lorena has given money and shepherded a lot of bills, just doesn't get spent right. And even to that, I don't want to blame Bruce for everything the council do either, because the council can only do so much. Heather Weiner: Yeah, it's not a weak mayor, government that we have. It's a very strong mayor form of government that we have here. On C29, one of the things that's in the news, I don't know if you guys have seen, is that ACLU and some homelessness advocates and Transit Riders Union just filed a lawsuit yesterday, challenging C29. And, I am a lawyer. I don't play one on TV, but I think they have a good chance. And I don't want to bore your listeners by telling them why they have a good chance, but actually, I think they have a good chance. And, I think it also helps by ACLU, getting their name into the press, talking about how they oppose this, I think that also weakens that unofficial backdoor IE, that the Downtown Seattle Association and the chamber have going, right now.   Michael Charles: Well, polling has backed up that people are actually like, when they hear this on the surface, it's actually not a bad idea. And so, it's, I'm worried that with no official... We have a small amount of opposition, but I think Heather's right. I think that there's a good chance this gets through right now. And, without the right information, without people really understanding what's in the bill here, it's a really good chance it's going to pass. People are looking for a plan. People are looking for a vision. People want just something done on homelessness.   Heather Weiner: Right. And, if you look at their messaging, it's very much about the council, the council, the council. So, pointing the finger at them. So, yeah, I think C29 is going to be really interesting. I know you guys don't want to talk about Seattle politics the whole time, so I'll be quiet.   Riall Johnson: Isn't that what we're here for?   Crystal Fincher: Yeah.   Heather Weiner: Well, there are, actually, other cities in King County.   Crystal Fincher: There are, and we will get to them.   Michael Charles: Crystal lives in one of them. Just throwing that out there.   Crystal Fincher: I live in one of them, and I'm excited. We had one primary race. And, the candidate shares the same last name with me in Kent, and her results as the local paper record said, she dominated her two opponents. So, pleased with that, but-   Michael Charles: With minimal spend, mind you.   Crystal Fincher: Minimal spend, that cost per votes. It's pretty impressive. Nice work on that, Michael Charles. But, I do want to just put a bow on Charter BIM at 29. I'm looking forward to that lawsuit. I agree with the panel here, that the anti-campaign has a tough road, just because of the simplicity of the message favoring the pro-campaign. The devil really is in the details, significant devil in the details. But, you have to get to the details. And that's really hard without a concerted communication effort, which takes a lot of resources. And, the pro-campaign, clearly has the resource advantage. Doesn't mean it's impossible. Just means that the work is cut out for the anti-Charter Amendment 29 campaign ahead, but I'm sure they're going to have a lot of eager and talented people willing to put in that work.   Riall Johnson: Yeah. All you gotta do is tell people, "He's following the money. Look at who's funding him."   Crystal Fincher: Seriously. And, there was a story I think, by Jim Brunner this past week in the Seattle Times, talking about Trump's number one booster in the state giving to both the Bruce Harrell campaign, and the Charter Amendment 29 campaign.   Heather Weiner: Yeah. And, Bruce Harrell's IE. Let's make sure to give credit where credit's due. That was Danny Westneat, of all people.   Crystal Fincher: It was Danny Westneat.   Heather Weiner: Yes. Danny Westneat published that, just when I think I broke up with him.   Michael Charles: George Petrie is also one of the people that are fighting the eviction moratorium the most, that wants to end that. So, I would just throw that out there as well. Heather Weiner: Yeah. The landlord.   Crystal Fincher: Yeah. I hope to see covered in the general election, the story of campaign spending. It's an undertold story. And so many, especially Seattle campaigns and mayoral campaigns, I think that we have ignored to our detriment, the story of donors. Certainly, during the past two with Durkan and with Ed Murray, their rhetoric said one thing, their donor listed something completely different.   Michael Charles: I would add Dow Constantine to that list as well, as somebody who takes money from Amazon and lots of other places as well.   Crystal Fincher: It's something I think is a fair question to ask candidates. These are investments for access and policy from businesses, and you just have to ask them, why do they feel it's a good investment in that candidate? What return do they think they're getting? It's fair to ask that, for a lot of different ones. But, I think that one lesson we need to learn in politics is that, it's not that candidates are bought and sold, but organizations, companies know where a candidate stands, and they're giving with an expected result. And usually, that turns out to be correct. When you look at how someone governs, usually, there are no surprises when you look at their donors. That's something that Seattle voters have a history of ignoring. I hope they pay attention this time. And, I hope the media pays attention this time. That story by Danny Westneat, I thought it was excellent. I hope to see more.   Heather Weiner: Yeah, don't say that too loud. If he hears you, he's going to write something completely opposite of it.   Michael Charles: And shout out to like Erica. Erica Barnett, normally does a really good piece every year. I don't know. I didn't pay attention as close to this year. She did one on the mayor's race or City Council, but she normally does an excellent job on this, every year.   Crystal Fincher: She's been on top of it in covering that, in addition with Charter Amendment 29 also. So, PubliCola has been on that. The Urbanist has been doing more coverage of that, and has had a lot of great stories throughout that, in addition to the South Seattle Emerald. So, a hat tip to local Seattle media for being engaged in helping to hold candidates accountable and help to inform voter.   Heather Weiner: And to City Hall reporters, it is a thankless job but there's new people coming out. New people, you're sitting on Twitter who are following what's happening in City Hall. And, I really appreciate that, as a thankless job. I want to hear what you guys have to think about council race nine. Crystal Fincher: Yeah.   Riall Johnson: So first off, shout out to Carolyn Bick, as well for in South Seattle Emerald.   Crystal Fincher: Excellent.   Riall Johnson: Council race nine, this is like a lot of hopes and dreams you've been thinking about a little bit, that someone that doesn't have to follow the party establishment framework can actually win. And so, Nikkita getting through the primary gives hope that, we could actually break free of those two party system. And, that's my biggest joy from seeing Nikkita get through. It's just like, not only is that seeing someone from the community that's put in so much work in that leading movements, or imagine, leading protests, showing that and seeing that reflecting the electorate without party support, without party politics. Started their own party, and getting through and leading is just hugely exciting to watch the potential of that.   Riall Johnson: It's not the first person, obviously, Shannon did as well, Andrew did as well, but city-wide, was getting that much support. It's a testament to the community organizer that Nikkita is. And of course, I'm really good friends with the campaign manager, Shaun Scott, who's an amazing organizer. He's just knows how to get people without... You see their posts, you see 100 people coming up to campus. Because, they just got excited for that person. And that resonates with voters regardless of party. I think the side of that campaigns has been very contagious.   Heather Weiner: I love just to see some of the volunteer art around town. I had my two nieces visiting here from Florida, and all they could talk about was Nikkita. They're both 14 and 16, and they saw the art around town, and they were starting to tell me about this candidate named Nikkita. It was really inspiring and really interesting. I want to hear the T though. Let's say, I'm not involved with either DSA or the People's Party, what is going to happen if we have Nikkita and Shaun, both on the City Council? What do you think will happen? Will they work together? Do you think there's going to be tension? What's happening there?   Riall Johnson: I wish I could tell you. I don't know.   Michael Charles: Well, obviously, they represent two different things, right? DSA is not the same as People's Party. I feel like there's a big separation in their approach, and how they're going to go. Or, not even DSA, but what is it? What's Shaun's-   Riall Johnson: Socialist Alternative.   Michael Charles: Socialist Alternative. Yeah. I feel like they're totally different approaches. The way they go about problem solving, is a lot differently. And I say that in the way that, I think Shaun's approach is to throw bombs, right. And I don't know that Nikkita's approach is necessarily to throw bombs, but to speak truth to power. And I think those are two different things. And I know that Shaun's approach is about speaking truth to power, for sure. But, it's through the lens of capitalism versus everything else. And Nikkita's is more around equity, and how are we genuinely pushing equity in government?   Michael Charles: Not to throw too much, but I want to step back just from the D9 race itself. And I felt like that was like two things. One thing being, the day after punditry needs to be dead. We need to just stop doing a day after punditry. This is ridiculous. I can't tell you how many posts we read that was like, Nikkita underperformed. Sara Nelson was up by all these numbers. And then, here we are. Nikkita's clearly in the lead. And, it's switched, but secondly, there's no room for middle politics right here. And I think the mayor's race proved that. I think this race was the clearest example of, there's no room for anything, but you got to pick a team at this point. The voters have no room for nuance. You are either on the side, that's going to fight what's going on in this city, or you're cool with everything that's going on. You want more of the same. So, there's just no room for nuance. There's no room for, if they think you're the policy person or that you work for them. That's just not important in these races any longer. It's about, are you on our side or not? And, I think we're really clear.   Heather Weiner: No, Michael, you worked for a candidate in this race, right. For Brianna Thomas, who was very much in that lane, and wasn't able to break through both of those. And, I am a huge fan of Brianna Thomas. I voted for Brianna Thomas, and I know she's a friend of the show. Tell me, how it would have been different if either Nikkita or Sara was not in the race. I'm sorry. Am I sounding like I'm trying to host right now? Crystal, feel free to kick me-   Crystal Fincher: No, you're fine. This is a conversation.   Heather Weiner: All right. Sorry. I'm just really interested. Yeah.   Michael Charles: No. The thing is that Brianna has integrity. And, what she needed to do once Nikkita got in the race, was not like, if she wanted to get through, you had to pick a team. And, the fact is, Brianna's also really progressive, has progressive ideas. But if what you were looking for was that, you chose the person that had more history with that lane, that clearly was less intellectual about, explaining, you need to know this about city politics and you need to know this about city politics in order to get things done. And I think voters really with that of like, I don't care about the insider ball game. I just don't care. What I want is people that are going to stand up for these issues.   Michael Charles: And I think that for Brianna, it was hard. If Sara Nelson wasn't in the race, Brianna would have gotten through. If Nikkita wasn't in the race, Brianna would have gotten through. Traditionally, we look at Lisa Herbold. We look at Andrew Lewis. She's in the mold of a lot of the candidates or a lot of the current council members of a former staffer. She is what traditionally we have done in Seattle for politics. And so, I just think that it was a repudiation of the idea of more of the same. And they said, we want somebody that's more extreme to get done what we want done.   Riall Johnson: Also, I think it came down to name or condition. Nikkita has just been done a lot of work, been on the spotlight, led a lot of things, and people recognize. And also, you don't have DNS on the ballot. So, it was a nonpartisan race. People saw the progressive candidate that voter's pamphlets, all that stuff added up. And Brianna has been just doing a lot of great work for years. And, I hope people come away, recognizing the stuff that she's done behind the scenes. She's been that person behind the scenes, that workforce has just got things done. Like, the minimal wage. Even the very first minimum wage organize the SeaTac one, not just the statewide, but the SeaTac wage. A lot of policies that we are thankful that we pat ourselves on the back for, the progressive policy and City Council, Brianna got done.   Riall Johnson: So, I think you've got to give credit where credit's due. And hopefully, I don't think Brianna was done with Seattle, because she's just someone who…When we actually do turn this place into the progressive ****hole that Fox News thinks it is, we're going to need people like Brianna to get things done. So hopefully, we see more of her and her career, one way or another. She's sharp as they come. Hopefully, she's not done with Seattle.   Michael Charles: Brianna is not done with Seattle politics. In my opinion, I think that she's going to be an important part moving forward.   Heather Weiner: There's so few women of color who were running for office in the City of Seattle, and there's so many who are starting to run now, thanks to the three of you, in all of these other cities, and in King County. But, to have two women of color, running against each other in that race was painful to watch. Right. Because, we want to raise up women of color, as much as we can, everywhere.   Crystal Fincher: Go ahead, Michael.   Michael Charles: I was just going to say, I think it's good that we have multiple women of color running for office. I'm excited about that. I don't think we have to coalesce around the one or anything ever. Actually, I wish we had four women of color running in every race, always. That would be amazing. We would feel we're doing something right, if that's point.   Heather Weiner: And, that's a good point. We had two women of color running in this mayor's race with Lorena and Colleen Echohawk, which was fantastic. Yeah.   Michael Charles: And to have two Black women running, is almost even cooler.   Crystal Fincher: It's really cool. And I think it impacts the quality of the discourse. I've heard from several journalists who commented on the quality of the policy discussions in that Position 9 race, and the detail of Nikkita's policy, Brianna's policy. I don't know that Sara Nelson brought a lot of detail in policy to the table. But certainly, between Brianna and Nikkita, really talking about, not just a vision, but the plans to get there. I think in the mayoral race, multiple women of color running, and having more nuanced conversations and better conversations, I think that's a positive thing. I'm with Michael on that, I don't think that there can only be one. And I also appreciate it, because we don't have enough women of color running yet, we're still excited when it happens because it happens too infrequently.   Crystal Fincher: But, there's this tendency to be like, well, there could only be one who is the true and authentic person of color who can speak for all of the people of color. Right. And, we're definitely not a monolith. We have a lot of different perspectives. And I think the more people of color, women of color, more black women that run, we get to see the richness of how varied we are, how many different perspectives and solutions we can bring to the table. So, I like seeing people run. I wish that we could be able to elect great people, and not have to choose between two, if it would be great if they both could wind up an office? Sure. But when they end up running against each other, is it okay? And, do I think it is necessary? Unfortunately, no. I think that it's good to see those perspectives. And I agree that we have not seen the last of Brianna Thomas, and will be better for it, if she stays engaged.   Crystal Fincher: Thank you for listening to Hacks & Wonks. Our chief audio engineer at KVRU is Maurice Jones Jr. The producer of Hacks & Wonks is Lisl Stadler. You can find me on Twitter @finchfrii, spelled F-I-N-C-H-F-R-I-I, and now you can follow Hacks & Wonks on iTunes, Spotify, or wherever else you get your Podcasts. Just type in Hacks & Wonks into the search bar. Be sure to subscribe to get our Friday almost live shows and our mid-week show delivered to your Podcast feed. You can also get a full text transcript of this episode and links to the resources referenced during the show, at OfficialHacksAndWonks.com, and in the Podcast episode notes. Thanks for tuning in. Talk to you next time.  

Morning Update Show | Wednesday, August 18, 2021 Nikkita Oliver of Creative Justice | LIVE Marc Dones of KC Regional Homelessness Authority | LIVE Youth Achievement Center The State of Homelessness in King County Early Black Pioneers in Seattle

Today Crosscut political reporter David Kroman joins Crystal to discuss the Seattle City Attorney primary election results, the massive impact of primary endorsements from the Seattle Times and The Stranger, the lawsuit being brought against Compassion Seattle, Seattle Police Department consent decree updates, and local governments having a responsibility to protect residents from dangerous heat and toxic, smoky air. As always, a full text transcript of the show is available below and at officialhacksandwonks.com. Find the host, Crystal Fincher on Twitter at @finchfrii and find today's co-host, David Kroman, at @KromanDavid. More info is available at officialhacksandwonks.com.   Resources “Seattle City Attorney Pete Holmes concedes primary election” by David Kroman from Crosscut: https://crosscut.com/news/2021/08/seattle-city-attorney-pete-holmes-concedes-primary-election  "Nikkita Oliver overtakes Sara Nelson to assume the lead for Seattle City Council #9" by Andrew Villeneuve from The Cascadia Advocate: https://www.nwprogressive.org/weblog/2021/08/nikkita-oliver-overtakes-sara-nelson-to-assume-the-lead-for-seattle-city-council-9.html “Lawsuit filed to block Charter Amendment 29 from the November 2021 Seattle ballot” by Andrew Villeneuve from The Cascadia Advocate: https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/homeless/aclu-and-advocates-file-lawsuit-over-compassion-seattle-ballot-initiative/  “Federal judge to Seattle officials: ‘Too much knee-jerk, not enough forethought' on police reform” by Mike Carter from The Seattle Times: https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/federal-judge-to-seattle-officials-too-much-knee-jerk-not-enough-forethought-on-police-reform/  “Trump's stolen election racket is working extremely well -- even here in Washington state” by Danny Westneat from The Seattle Times: https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/politics/trumps-stolen-election-racket-is-working-extremely-well-even-here-in-washington-state/  “Hidden Toll of the Northwest Heat Wave: Hundreds of Extra Deaths” by Nadja Popovich and WInston Choi-Schagrin from The New York Times: https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2021/08/11/climate/deaths-pacific-northwest-heat-wave.html  “Smoke from Canada arrives, air quality alert issued for some parts of Puget Sound” by Christine Clarridge from The Seattle Times: https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/weather/smoke-from-canada-arrives-air-quality-alerts-issued-for-some-parts-of-puget-sound/    Transcript available by August 16th

Today Crystal is joined by a very special co-host and KIRO 7 political reporter, Essex Porter! They cover what happened in this week's primary elections, whether or not there were any real upsets or surprises, and we may see over the next few months heading into the November general election. As always, a full text transcript of the show is available below and at officialhacksandwonks.com. Find the host, Crystal on Twitter at @finchfrii, and find Essex at @EssexKIRO7.    Resources “Harrell, González will likely compete to be next Seattle mayor” by David Kroman from Crosscut: https://crosscut.com/politics/2021/08/harrell-gonzalez-will-likely-compete-be-next-seattle-mayor  “Incumbent Pete Holmes slips to third place in Seattle city attorney race after Thursday's ballot count” by Jim Brunner from The Seattle Times: https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/politics/incumbent-pete-holmes-slips-to-third-place-in-seattle-city-attorney-race-after-thursdays-ballot-count/  “6 takeaways from ballots counted Tuesday in Seattle area's 2021 primary election” by Jim Brunner from The Seattle Times: https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/politics/6-takeaways-from-ballots-counted-tuesday-in-seattles-2021-primary-election/  “Primary election results: Harrell, González lead mayor's race” by Crosscut Staff: https://crosscut.com/politics/2021/08/primary-election-results-harrell-gonzalez-lead-mayors-race  Read Hacks & Wonks interviews with candidates that are likely to move on to the November election: Mayoral candidate, Lorena González: https://www.officialhacksandwonks.com/listenpodcast/episode/f9428eab/conversation-with-lorena-gonzalez-city-council-president-and-mayoral-candidate  District 9 City Council candidate, Nikkita Oliver: https://www.officialhacksandwonks.com/listenpodcast/episode/300d5a84/nikkita-oliver-activist-organizer-city-council-candidate  District 9 City Council candidate, Sara Nelson: https://www.officialhacksandwonks.com/listenpodcast/episode/29584c47/discussion-with-sara-nelson-city-council-candidate  City Attorney candidate, Nicole Thomas-Kennedy: https://www.officialhacksandwonks.com/listenpodcast/episode/20c5baf6/nicole-thomas-kennedy-candidate-for-city-attorney  King County Executive, Dow Constantine: https://www.officialhacksandwonks.com/listenpodcast/episode/1e6eecae/a-chat-with-dow-constantine-king-county-executive  King County Executive candidate, Senator Joe Nguyen: https://www.officialhacksandwonks.com/listenpodcast/episode/1e38d0ac/meet-senator-and-kc-exec-candidate-joe-nguyen-again    Transcript Crystal Fincher: [00:00:00] Welcome to Hacks & Wonks. I'm Crystal Fincher, and I'm a political consultant and your host. On this show, we talk with policy wonks and political hacks to gather insight into local politics and policy in Washington State through the lens of those doing the work with behind-the-scenes perspectives on what's happening, why it's happening, and what you can do about it. Full transcripts and resources referenced in the show are always available at officialhacksandwonks.com and in our episode notes. Today, we're continuing our Friday almost-live shows, where we review the news of the week. Welcome to the program - I'm extremely happy and excited to welcome today's co-host, KIRO-7 political reporter, Essex Porter. Hey Essex! Essex Porter: [00:00:54] Hello, and good to be here. Crystal Fincher: [00:00:57] Excellent to have you here. Well, I'm thrilled to have you on the program. You are known to everyone as the person who lets us know what's going on with politics here locally on TV. So we just had a big primary election earlier this week and we have vote-in-mail here in the state, so we don't get all of the results on Election Day. We get them in batches in the days - on Election Day and throughout the week. Usually most races are clear by the end of the week, and most races are clear with one or two hanging in the balance. So I guess, starting with the mayor's race, what was your feeling on just the result that we got? Essex Porter: [00:01:45] The result was not surprising. We expected former City Council President Bruce Harrell to be in the lead on election night and he is. We pretty much expected current City Council President Lorena González to come in second and make the November ballot - and she did. The other two - three and four - Colleen Echohawk, number three, Jessyn Farrell, number four. That was pretty much expected as well. And the Northwest Progressive Institute poll pretty much nailed where they would come in. I think they were tied pretty much in that poll, or close to tied in that poll. And that's exactly the order they showed up in. So we have the November election matchup that we expected, but we'll see if there are surprises between now and November. It's a long time away. Crystal Fincher: [00:02:41] It is a long time away - a lot of communication yet to go. Where we stand today, and today we're recording this Friday morning - people will be starting to listen to this on Friday afternoon. We still have yesterday's results. We don't have the Friday results in yet. There are probably going to be another 20,000-ish votes counted today in Seattle is what we're anticipating. But as it stands right now, Bruce Harrell is just shy of 37% - 36.9%. And then Lorena González is at just shy of 30%, so 29.6%. With Colleen Echohawk further behind, in third place, but at 9% - I think that's further behind than a lot of people expected her to be. Some of the polling showed that she was closer, that she had a potentially significant upside after people heard her message and how she talked about herself. Why do you think that that result didn't line up with expectations? Essex Porter: [00:03:46] Well, yeah, interestingly and the only poll I'd really seen, was the public one by Northwest Progressive Institute, which had her roughly where she is ending up, as I recall. I think it had her right at 8%, but there was a large number of undecided people in the race. Perhaps for Colleen Echohawk, who has been a very strong candidate when you see her in person - but of course it's hard to meet everybody in person, and you really have to get a message out there when you are someone who has not been in the headlines of the public eye for as long as Councilmembers Harrell and González had been. Now Colleen Echohawk has a very public profile, she's just not as well-known. And I think the result can be heartening for her and her supporters, and can point certainly to a future in Seattle politics, even if she's not going to be on the ballot this November. Crystal Fincher: [00:05:00] Absolutely, and I think you nailed it. It really is, for people who pay attention to politics - a number of people who listen to this podcast are more plugged-in than the average person when it comes to political news. So we can - we're more exposed, we're more in tune with all the news coming out - where the candidates stand, who they are, what their histories are. But the average Seattle voter is not us. We are abnormal. The biggest opponent for a candidate is not the person or people who they are running against. It's everything else in a voter's life that is competing for attention. There's a lot going on right now in the world. We're dealing with a pandemic, people are figuring out what they're doing with their kids and school and work and home and remote, and just a lot going on, in addition to everything else that's going on in life. And so lots of people don't start paying attention until they notice that they get their ballot in the mail and their voter's pamphlet. And in that time, you really have to communicate really effectively with a message that penetrates and captures people's attention. Certainly that's simpler to do when there's familiarity with a candidate. So people who had been Councilmembers and incumbents enjoyed that. They'd been on ballots before, voters were already familiar with them. People who voters weren't very familiar with in the mayor's race, they just didn't seem to - their message didn't seem to penetrate. So, but as we've seen with a lot of other races, this can certainly set someone up for a future successful race, now that they're more widely known, more broadly known, and people have gotten a little bit more of a chance to get to know who they are. Essex Porter: [00:06:44] I got to talk to a few voters on the day before the election and on Election Day. The sense I got from voters was certainly - coming out of this pandemic and having a nice weather summer, and for, at the time before the election - things were relaxing and people were enjoying getting out, enjoying maybe taking a little bit of a vacation trip. I talked to one person, I asked him why he was voting so late, "I'm voting so late because I just moved and I needed to get the ballot at the new address. Soon as I got it, I came and I voted." People have things going on in their lives. But what's one of the thoughts I have is that - I wonder if the atmosphere will be changing. Because in the last few days of the election and this week and continuing on, there is more concern about COVID. There is more of a restrictive attitude as the highly contagious Delta variant of COVID begins to impact our lives here in the Seattle area and the Northwest. There is a concern that the psychological, if not physical opening we have, will be closing back down. That may also be on voters' minds as they go into November. That will be one of the things that's overhanging that vote as they make choices. Crystal Fincher: [00:08:12] The Delta variant is here and prevalent. So we'll see how that continues to line up. Another interesting thing I was looking at is obviously - we have the Compassion Seattle initiative coming up on the November ballot, and we had the major candidates basically all line up on one side or the other of the initiative. And that acted as a dividing line between where candidates stood. Are they more of a law and order-focus candidate, looking at issues that may bring more criminalization or certainly codify some criminalization of homelessness into the City Charter with sweeps, in addition to some other elements and in that - Essex Porter: [00:09:01] And I have to say, that's one of the arguments over Compassion Seattle - as to whether it does criminalize homelessness and poverty. Whether it does make it more likely and give more approval to sweeps. I mean that's going to be one of the big debating points. There are supporters of Compassion Seattle who don't necessarily see it that particular way. Crystal Fincher: [00:09:27] Absolutely. And certainly the language about it, right? Compassion Seattle - this is a compassionate solution to this challenge that we're facing. Everyone seems to agree that it's a problem. Which part of that they find to be the problem is up in the air. Is it that they have to see and deal with people being homeless? Is it that they are feeling uncomfortable about it and wanting them to be removed, or swept, or other things happen? Is it an issue of services? Certainly the initiative does address services. People talk about how effective that is and is it really more than what we're doing now? And many people say that it is 1% more perhaps, but perhaps more restrictive, but - Essex Porter: [00:10:18] And as I talk to voters - and again, this is a small number of voters I'm talking with, as I'm working on deadline and meeting people at random at the ballot box. But as I talked to voters, when they mentioned homelessness, all the voters I talked with started out with a feeling of compassion for those who are homeless, who may be forced to sleep on the streets, or camp in a tent. And then as you listened to them, even if they didn't say who they liked in the mayor's race, it was clear that they kind of divided. There were people who spoke compassionately about those who are homeless, who felt to me - is that they would be more inclined to support Bruce Harrell. There are others who talked very much the same way, who felt to me - they would be more inclined to support Lorena González or Colleen Echohawk. The Northwest Progressive Institute poll has Compassion Seattle at, I think, it's 61% support. So it just seems to me, there's a lot of people across the mayoral candidate spectrum who support Compassion Seattle. It may not be that a vote for one person as mayor is a vote against Compassion Seattle. That's what it will be interesting to see work out in November. Crystal Fincher: [00:11:48] It'll be interesting to see it work out in November. And interesting to see how the vote share was turned out based on where the candidates were at. Candidates who supported Compassion Seattle got more votes than candidates who didn't in the primary. But we do have Bruce Harrell who said that he is supportive of Charter Amendment 29 and Lorena González who opposes it. Essex Porter: [00:12:16] Yeah, that's going to be one of the key things that differentiates those candidates, because there's actually a lot that's alike about those two candidates. But we'll be looking for what the differences are. Crystal Fincher: [00:12:24] Will be interesting to see how that turns out. We also got results in the City Council races. I don't think many people are too surprised to see Teresa Mosqueda, the incumbent, in Position 8 with 56%. Kenneth Wilson is going to also make it through to the general, at 17%, but that race is looking pretty settled. In the Position 9 race, Sara Nelson is in the lead as we speak, with 42%, followed by Nikkita Oliver - they have 36%. And then Brianna Thomas in third place, with just about 14%. So it looks like Nikkita Oliver and Sara Nelson are making it through to the general - two very different candidates. Two other candidates who line up on opposite sides of the Compassion Seattle debate, they're on different sides on the JumpStart tax, the head tax, many different things. So that certainly is going to be a race where voters have a clear choice. Essex Porter: [00:13:31] Yeah. Now that is absolutely true, and I talked briefly with Sara Nelson before the election, because by total coincidence, she doorbelled my house. And you look through the doorbell camera and think, "Hey, that's somebody I recognize," but when we talked, at least the public polling did not have her in the lead in this race. She sounded very concerned, and while I haven't spoken with her after the election, I suspect there are few people as surprised as she is, that she did so well in this race - that she has a strong lead at over 40% of the vote. And this race, I think, will be probably more for the folks who are interested in policy, and follow policy - because they do differ so much on policy. They are both seasoned at creating policy, and evaluating policy, and taking stance on policy. So it's going to be going to be a very policy-oriented City Council race. Because they diverge very much, ideologically, people are going to have that choice you're talking about. Crystal Fincher: [00:15:05] Yeah, I mean, Nikkita has certainly talked a lot about policy. And one of the nice things about that race is that it has been so policy-focused - in their debates, especially with Brianna Thomas, there were definitive policies, plans laid out. I think it's going to be interesting to see the contrast between Nikkita and Sara. I interviewed both of them earlier, we'll link both of those interviews in the show notes to this show, but very different approaches. It feels like they're taking different stances to even the conversation about policy. Essex Porter: [00:15:45] I think Sara Nelson will be running a message that, "I'm a business woman. I've been at City Hall. I've worked policy in City Hall. I'm a business woman too. So I know how what happens at City Hall impacts business. I don't necessarily have all the answers, but you can be comfortable with my approach and my thought process." I suspect that's the kind of message that she'll be trying to get out there. Crystal Fincher: [00:16:17] I anticipate the same, and I anticipate to see a lot of the downtown and business interests that have traditionally been associated with the Chamber to consolidate around her. And to see a lot of the more progressive interests consolidate around Nikkita. We'll see how that goes. Essex Porter: [00:16:38] That might be the race that's not going to be settled by Friday after the November election. Crystal Fincher: [00:16:43] After the November election, that may be tight, but we'll see. Now there is a race that, as we sit here on Friday morning, still is not decided. Not enough for either, for any of the candidates, to have definitively declared victory or conceded and that is the City Attorney's race. And my goodness, is this a race? So as we are sitting here, after the results release on Thursday - Ann Davison is at 34.5%, Nicole Thomas-Kennedy is at 33.19%, Pete Holmes is at 32.02%. Talking to the campaigns, it looks like they're anticipating 25,000-40,000 more ballots perhaps. But this is an unusual situation, in that the incumbent Pete Holmes is now trailing - unless he significantly improves his vote share in today's count, it's looking like he's not going to make it through the primary. Essex Porter: [00:17:54] This is, at the moment, the classic example of late votes lean left. The total on election night had Holmes in third place. The total on Wednesday night had Holmes moving up just barely to second place. And now, the total on Thursday night, where the late ballots are finally counted - those ballots that went in the mail on Monday maybe, or went in the mail on Sunday, some of the ballots that went into drop boxes late on Tuesday - those are the ballots that have been counted. And they push Nicole Thomas-Kennedy ahead of Pete Holmes again. We both have seen it often - once that trend gets started, it doesn't reverse - the Friday ballots just confirm it. Crystal Fincher: [00:18:49] Yeah, they do. So it is looking highly unlikely that Pete Holmes is going to end up making it through. The other thing is that they're strongly trending for Nicole Thomas-Kennedy in yesterday's count. If you look at just yesterday's count, there were just over 28,000 ballots counted yesterday. Nicole Thomas-Kennedy got 37% of those ballots, Ann Davison 33%, and Pete Holmes 29%. So it's just - that trend is going to have to move sharply. And when you start thinking about what it's going to take to close that gap, you start looking at numbers, he's going to have to clear 35% to closer to 40% of the remaining ballots to look like he has a shot. That just doesn't seem consistent with anything that we've seen so far. Essex Porter: [00:19:45] Yes, exactly. So now we have to contemplate what happened to Pete Holmes? Here's a three term incumbent, taking a position on criminalizing poverty, basically, that a lot of people favor. I mean, his criticism is that he is not tough enough on people for petty crimes like shoplifting or petty theft. But his stance has been to focus on those he perceives as true dangers in society, and that's not most of the people who come across for misdemeanors. Most of those are not necessarily violent crimes. So he's taken a stance that a lot of people on the left would support, but somehow that wasn't enough? Crystal Fincher: [00:20:40] Well, it's interesting, because he certainly, when he came into office, he certainly came in as someone who was more reform-minded from his predecessor - in talking about stopping prosecuting some marijuana, crimes, stopping - being more friendly to nightlife and entertainment venues, that kind of thing. But what Nicole Thomas-Kennedy spent a lot of time talking about was there have been certain areas where they stopped that focus, but my goodness, there's still a lot of criminalization of poverty. And prosecutions of what seemed to be misdemeanors that are so minor that it's certainly costing the City more to prosecute it, than they're getting from the prosecution. And that criminalizing people in that situation actually is more likely to make the problem worse and more expensive to solve, than to fix it. So she has talked more about addressing root causes, taking an approach that helps get people on the right track, as opposed to just criminalize people and have them going in and out. So he took heat for not being progressive enough and for criminalizing poverty too much on one end. On the other end was for people who think he's just been too soft on crime, look at everything happening, you've got people going for that, "Seattle is dying" narrative. And just on the hard side saying, "Oh, he's a liberal and letting everyone off, and crime is running rampant." But then there's also people saying, "I just see ..." I think it doesn't help that a lot of people associate, wrongly, I should point out, wrongly associate homelessness with criminality. People who are unhoused are more likely to be victims of crimes, than they are to perpetrate them. I also think a lot of people don't understand that he is dealing with misdemeanors and that felonies, or most serious crime, is handled from the King County Prosecutor. So I think he's also taking heat for a lot of people's perception that crime is up, and some types of crimes are up. Overall crime is down, some violent crimes are up. So he's also taking heat for that perception. And then also, he just didn't really seem to care about campaigning for a while, until it became clear he was in danger. And then it seemed to be too little too late, with some faux pas added in some late interviews and statements. Essex Porter: [00:23:20] Yeah, I haven't taken a look at the crime numbers, even for the non-violent crime, so I can't immediately confirm that overall crime is down. And it may not matter, unfortunately, exactly what the numbers are, because it is what the feeling is, right? Crystal Fincher: [00:23:45] The perception - exactly. Essex Porter: [00:23:47] It's the perception. I spoke with Ann Davison after the election, and one of the phrases that she uses and I think is going to be at center of her campaign, is that she's going to, "Center the victims," and that's the language she uses. It's going to be a victim-centered approach. I think that's the kind of approach on public safety issues - because we're going to have public safety issues that are going to be headlines about some terribly unfortunate things that happen between now and November, that will be happening every week. When she talks about centering victims, I think that is going to be a strong counter to Nicole Thomas-Kennedy if she is in the November election, who is going to be talking about a wholesale change. She calls it abolition, and people are going to be weighing again, the stark contrast between Ann Davison, who maybe will take a more conservative approach than many people would like, and Nicole Thomas-Kennedy, who may be taking a more progressive approach than many people feel comfortable with. It's going to be which person can make people feel comfortable with their approach to public safety. Crystal Fincher: [00:25:22] Yeah, absolutely. And basically, Pete Holmes not making it through the primary, as looks likely - certainly we'll have a much clearer idea about that after today's results. But if you're asking me, it doesn't look good for Pete Holmes. It's - there's an admission that what is going on now hasn't worked. And so people want a new approach - is that new approach more of a, "Hey, let's just crack down on people and arrest them, get them in jail," or is it, "Let's treat some of the root causes." And I think, as you articulated, Ann Davison's position and what she may be talking about. I think Nicole Thomas-Kennedy is going to be focusing a lot on what we have done hasn't worked. And what we hear proposed is more of exactly what has not worked on this level. A lot of clarifying and educating that we aren't talking about violent crimes. And that's where a lot of the disdain and discomfort comes, when people think, "Well, we can't just have people assaulting people on the street and facing no penalty. And what are we doing?" And that's a scary prospect for a lot of people. So I think hearing her talk about, "Okay, what does this mean in the role of City Attorney. And how do we change our approach?" I think that's going to be a really interesting and enlightening dialogue. I think people are going to hear some things from both candidates that are different than what they were expecting. So it'll be interesting to see how this continues to evolve through the general, but I'm excited about the conversation that will happen because of this race. Essex Porter: [00:27:11] Yeah, and I think it's going to get some national attention as well, because I think, more than the mayor's race, it'll be a clearer choice of where Seattle wants to go. Crystal Fincher: [00:27:23] Absolutely. And I mean, Hey, we're in the City who has a socialist on the City Council, who the DSA is not just a synonym for the Downtown Seattle Association, it's the Democratic Socialist. And they are a significant force here. We have a candidate who identifies as an abolitionist proudly, who is making it through a primary, beating the incumbent. So, I mean, this is, even for people in a primary election, which is usually a more conservative voting group compared to a general election voting group, there's a lot of receptivity to Nicole Thomas-Kennedy's message, which I think was surprising to a number of people. But I think people need to understand that there is a feeling that what has happened isn't working. And people do want reductions in crime, people do want to feel safer. But it's just, what is it that actually does make us safer? And that conversation and the details and the contours of it are one I'm excited to have. Essex Porter: [00:28:39] Yeah. Crystal Fincher: [00:28:41] Well, I think we are coming up on our time. I sincerely appreciate you taking the time to join us today, Essex on July ... Geez, listen to me - Essex Porter: [00:28:52] It's already August. Crystal Fincher: [00:28:52] I'm going to edit that. Essex Porter: [00:28:55] Don't edit that. Crystal Fincher: [00:28:57] I'm totally editing that. Maybe I'm editing that. I'm all over the place, but I appreciate you listening to Hacks & Wonks on this Friday, August 6th, 2021. The producer of Hacks & Wonks is Lisl Stadler and our wonderful co-host today was KIRO-7 political reporter, Essex Porter. You can find Essex on Twitter @EssexKIRO7. You can find me on Twitter @finchfrii, spelled F-I-N-C-H-F-R-I-I, and now you can follow Hacks & Wonks on iTunes, Spotify, or wherever else you get your podcasts. Just type "Hacks & Wonks" into the search bar, be sure to subscribe to get our Friday almost-live shows and our mid-week show delivered to your podcast feed. While you're there, leave a review, it really helps us out. You can also get a full transcript of this episode and links to the resources referenced in the show at officialhacksandwonks.com and in the podcast episode notes. Thanks for tuning in. We'll talk to you next time. Essex Porter: [00:29:50] Bye-bye.

Today on the show, Marco Lowe, Professor at Seattle University's Institute for Public Service, joins Crystal to discuss recent polls that have come out about Seattle's mayoral, city council, and city attorney races, the importance of understanding poll methodology and margin of error, and the historic and tragic impact of Seattle's recent heatwave and our governments responsibility to act to protect people from the impacts of climate change.  Key takeaways: Seattle's population has changed so much in the past 10 years that incumbents can't run just on their past popularity - a lot of folks who live here now won't remember it. Polls are just a snapshot in time, and it's important to contextualize them.  Climate change is here, and there is no more neutral ground. All policy and legislation needs to be evaluated through the lens of helping or hurting the environment. As always, a full text transcript of the show is available below and at officialhacksandwonks.com. Find the host, Crystal Fincher on Twitter at @finchfrii and find today's co-host, Marco Lowe, at @MarcoLowe. More info is available at officialhacksandwonks.com.   Resources “Bruce Harrell, Lorena Gonzalez lead in 2021 Seattle mayoral race with many undecided” from the Northwest Progressive Institute: https://www.nwprogressive.org/weblog/2021/07/bruce-harrell-lorena-gonzalez-lead-in-2021-seattle-mayoral-race-with-many-undecided.html  Poll released by Echohawk campaign:  https://www.dropbox.com/s/pvy5wwbipq2ln4t/Seattle_Primary_Mood_Q1-9.pdf?dl=0&fbclid=IwAR2szALLpK5ndk6lUQfD4faPero_XajzTUU7g83EByX95iF_zLhwFBtXmmc  https://www.dropbox.com/s/abts97djtqhv08i/Seattle_Primary_Issues_Q11-17.pdf?dl=0&fbclid=IwAR1BG9eSNaZi0wvM2c-2o92fHHynGUd7HXbM28lcnWU8go55oLtAMJW48po  https://www.dropbox.com/s/t387o51ncqqr8ia/Seattle_Primary_Q18-22.pdf?dl=0&fbclid=IwAR2e-n1Jl6tnIp99yZWVZZF8_gwczGlMhimhLIVRblDB_jmSpQGqoSBHB44  “A three-way race for Seattle City Attorney: Pete Holmes barely ahead of two challengers” from the Northwest Progressive Institute: https://www.nwprogressive.org/weblog/2021/07/a-three-way-race-for-seattle-city-attorney-pete-holmes-barely-ahead-of-two-challengers.html  “Nikkita Oliver has a big lead over Sara Nelson for Seattle City Council Position #9” from the Northwest Progressive Institute: https://www.nwprogressive.org/weblog/2021/07/nikkita-oliver-has-a-big-early-lead-over-sara-nelson-for-seattle-city-council-position-9.html  Endorsements The Stranger: https://www.thestranger.com/news/2021/07/14/59065522/the-strangers-endorsements-for-the-august-3-2021-primary-election  The Urbanist: https://www.theurbanist.org/2021/06/28/the-urbanists-2021-primary-endorsements/  The Seattle Times: https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/politics/who-supports-who-in-seattle-elections-endorsements-roll-in-for-mayoral-council-races/   350 Seattle: https://350seattleaction.org/2021-elections  Publicola:  Mayor: https://publicola.com/2021/07/19/publicola-picks-lorena-gonzalez-for-mayor/  City Council Position 9: https://publicola.com/2021/07/19/publicola-picks-brianna-thomas-for-seattle-city-council-position-9/  “2021 heat wave is now the deadliest weather-related event in Washington history” by John Ryan at KUOW: https://www.kuow.org/stories/heat-wave-death-toll-in-washington-state-jumps-to-112-people    Transcript:  Crystal Fincher: [00:00:00] Welcome to Hacks & Wonks. I'm Crystal Fincher and I'm a political consultant and your host. On this show, we talk with policy wonks and political hacks to gather insight into local politics and policy in Washington State through the lens of those doing the work with behind-the-scenes perspectives on what's happening, why it's happening and what you can do about it. Full transcripts and resources referenced in the show are always available at officialhacksandwonks.com and in our episode notes. Today, we're continuing our Friday almost-live shows, where we review the news of the week with a cohost. Welcome back to the program friend of the show and today's co-host: professor at Seattle University's Institute for Public Service, Marco Lowe. Marco Lowe: [00:00:52] Thank you for having me. Always love being here. Crystal Fincher: [00:00:54] Always love having you here. Always very insightful. I thought we would get started talking about polling that was released in the past week about Seattle races, including the Mayor's race, City Attorney's race, the City Council races - the Northwest Progressive Institute actually sponsored a whole slew of public polling - some of the only public polling that we've seen regarding these races this cycle. We've heard a lot about internal polls at various points from different campaigns, but this was really interesting. So, I guess, starting with the Mayor's race, what did you glean from these polls? Marco Lowe: [00:01:39] I think that they're reflecting what we've seen some of the campaigns release quietly, maybe through back channel communication. That it looks like, currently - and again, Not Sure is the winning candidate in most of these races - but Bruce Harrell seems to have coalesced a good group behind him that gives him a very good chance of getting into the general. And then Council President Lorena González is probably in that second spot behind him. But what I think we've been watching is the jockeying with Colleen Echohawk and Jessyn Farrell that are trying to jump into that second spot as the weigh-in days of the campaign commence. Crystal Fincher: [00:02:17] Yeah, absolutely. And so, just for the percentages that were in this poll that has a 4.3% margin of error and a 95% confidence interval. Not Sure, Undecided at 54% - more than half of the people there. So to your point, Undecided is the winner here and really how they break will be how this race breaks, it looks like. Bruce Harrell at 15%, Lorena González at 8%, Colleen Echohawk at 6%, Jessyn Farrell 4%, Andrew Grant Houston 3%, Arthur Langlie 3%, Casey Sixkiller 2%. Lance Randall 2%, and everyone else has not broken 1%. The rest are at 0%. So really what that says is even though, technically, Bruce Harrell is - looks to be leading in this poll for people who've made a choice - one, more than half of the people who are still Not Sure. And it really is still a race for second place, if not first. It's certainly still a race for second place, and by no means decided. Marco Lowe: [00:03:27] I agree. And just to say that sometimes there's a tactic that you think you're going to push all the Undecided into the current levels and that's not often true. If people aren't deeply engaged in a race - when they enter and get educated, it doesn't follow that pattern. They will find other candidates. So I would agree with you entirely. This is an open race. Crystal Fincher: [00:03:48] Yeah, absolutely an open race. And there usually are a percentage of Undecideds who, unfortunately, end up not voting. Also, sometimes they just do not end up feeling strongly about any candidate and don't wind up pulling the trigger at all. But certainly, even with that percentage accounted for, this race is still wide open. But I think a number of the candidates certainly view the two front runners in the poll as front runners. And you see a number of candidates taking aim at the leader in their lane. And we've talked about lanes on this before - who is the more progressive candidate in the race who are aiming for that lane. Who is - again, I always talk about conservative in Seattle does not equate to a conservative in other areas - but Seattle's version of a conservative or a moderate Democrat, certainly, Bruce Harrell in that lane and people looking at that. And so, you have people like Colleen Echohawk, really seeming to take the fight directly to Lorena González, which led to another quasi poll released that we saw this week, that came from Bill Broadhead and people affiliated, it appeared with the Colleen Echohawk camp. But who released a portion of a poll, which upfront means that we need to take it with a grain of salt, because we don't see the methodology. I mean, there are best practices around how to release polling, so other people can, basically, check your work and verify that this is a legitimate poll - polling is an actual science. And we didn't get all of the information from this poll that purportedly shows that Colleen Echohawk performs better head-to-head against Bruce Harrell than Lorena González. And they certainly were pressing that point very hard online, but, unfortunately, the actual poll information that they released was scant. How did you view that? Marco Lowe: [00:06:06] It was an interesting release, because they did not, as far as I can tell, formally release it from the campaign. I saw it on Facebook from Bill Broadhead. And I think the way that you normally see these laid out, it looks a little different. Not bizarre, but just it was a little more informal, might be the right word. And I don't know exactly what they were trying to do, but there is potentially this effort to show that she could possibly win in a head-to-head. And that, again, we're trying to see her move into second place. So, I think this may have been more an insider game to show to donors or larger groups, versus a wider - because you see campaigns release these with press releases and press conferences and framing for the race. And this seemed to be a much more subtle effort. Crystal Fincher: [00:06:53] Yeah. I agree with that. And certainly, this brings to mind conversations - I've had a number of these conversations in real life with people - but polls as marketing versus polls as actual research. And this certainly seemed to be on the side of a marketing effort. Now I say that, and I certainly would not be surprised at all, to see that Colleen Echohawk polled more favorably against Bruce Harrell than Lorena González. I actually don't think that's a wild and ridiculous outcome if it were to happen. That could be the case. It's just making that conclusion from the data that we've seen publicly seems to be a stretch. Especially given as I read it - the bios as they were constructed in this are not consistent with the bios that people have heard to date. Now this can certainly have been message testing and "Hey, this is how we will message him and paint him if we do get through the primary. And so we can create these conditions." Maybe that's part of the conversation. And to your point, maybe part of that insider conversation, but we just haven't seen this information publicly. So, and given just the platform that it appears that the poll was done on, based on the watermarking, is one for corporate market research, commercial market research, not necessarily public opinion polling. So there are challenges there. That doesn't mean that the result is wrong, but it does mean that it's hard to accept that conclusion based on the information that we see here. And clearly the campaign was comfortable just releasing this information. So, I mean, I assume it's accomplishing their objectives, especially with some of the coverage of it that I've seen is certainly advancing this narrative. But it'll be interesting to see how this continues to play out over the final weeks of the campaign. Marco Lowe: [00:09:02] And it's worth saying - even just putting this poll aside, head-to-heads are tough until you're really in a race. And if you're in the last month of a presidential race, where there's been so many TV stories and everything about it, that's one discussion. But I remember in the second round for Dino Rossi and Governor Gregoire, he was polling very well into the spring against her. And one of her campaign folks, when I called them asking about it, they said, "Let's get them both in the ring and then let's see what happens. This is all just subjective data at this point." And so, it does just always with every poll - put it in its place in time. Crystal Fincher: [00:09:35] Yeah, absolutely. And it is worth reiterating that polls are in fact, just a snapshot in time. These polls are a snapshot of what people thought when they were fielded - which for the NPI poll was week before last or going into early last week, and it finished in the field early last week. So that certainly is before a lot of voter communication has happened, it's before a lot of the messaging from campaigns that are happening in these final weeks and campaigns making their closing arguments for this primary have happened. And that's going to impact how a lot of people wind up making a decision for this, in addition to a lot of endorsements that have come out and people seeing organizations that they like or trust, or dislike or distrust - see who they wind up supporting. So, certainly not conclusive. It would not be a shock if the results don't wind up lining up with these polls, because there's a lot that can change. And again, it's worth noting that the more than half of the people, the biggest vote getter were people who were Undecided. So, anything can happen. We're still in a wide open situation. Speaking of wide open situations, though - one race that really caught my eye in this polling that I think has to be causing some consternation for the incumbent is the polling in the Seattle City Attorney race. That race is extremely close in this poll with - again, 53% of people not sure who they're going to vote for, but Pete Holmes coming with 16%, which as a three term incumbent, not the number that you are aiming for. I mean, either he has not made an impact, has not been notable, or people have not noticed the work that he's done, or they're just unhappy with it. Either way, a tenured incumbent is never going to be happy with a number like 16%. Marco Lowe: [00:11:46] As a creature of City Hall, I will defend City Attorney. If you stopped cars on Fourth Ave in downtown and rolled down the window and put a mic in and said, "Who's the Seattle City Attorney?" I think you'd be lucky to get 16% to name any - maybe going back to Mark Sidran in the 90s and early 2000s, you had somebody who was on the press a lot. But Tom Carr, in the middle, lost to Pete Holmes - I think by his second re-election in '09. And I do agree with these numbers. I don't think anybody on Mr. Holmes' teams are saying this is a good news, but it's a challenging place to be. But that knee-jerk reaction aside - yeah. I agree with you. Going into a primary with these numbers and having three people so close together - you made a great point that with three - we were talking prior to the show. They can pitch somebody out really easily and it raises the bar for what he needs to get to now to close. I think that may be the first race I look at it on election night when the numbers drop. Crystal Fincher: [00:12:44] Yeah, same here. And so Pete Holmes is at 16%, Nicole Thomas-Kennedy at 14%, and Ann Davison at 14% also. So a race within the margin of error. The interesting thing about Pete Holmes is he used to be well-known. When he first came onto the scene, it was with a lot of pomp and fanfare - and he had looked at doing what, at that time, were some progressive things. Certainly, working with the nightlife community - there were a number of issues that were important to people involved in nightlife - owners of bars and cultural establishments, arts establishments, who definitely preferred him over his incumbent. And being willing to decriminalize, at that point in time, pre-legalization of marijuana, that they were going to de-emphasize prosecuting marijuana crimes. And they were on the front end of doing that. So when he came in, it was with progressive fanfare. But I think that, one, what we've seen from him in the preceding years was a lot less vocal, a lot less upfront, and he has been in the background. And a lot of the conversations where previously he has been in the foreground with, he was also well known for having some disagreements with Mayor McGinn at the time when that came in. But also - yes, there's been a lot of population change since he first came in. So there are just a lot of people in the City who never experienced that Pete Holmes, and never experienced what he hung his hat on. And so he's just a name that's part of this unpopular administration. And so looking at these numbers for his opponents, and especially given that The Times has endorsed Ann Davison, his opponent to the right. And The Stranger has endorsed Nicole Thomas-Kennedy, his opponent to the left. So, I would not call his position comfortable. And he certainly has to campaign and deliver a message to the people in order to get through this primary. Marco Lowe: [00:15:03] No, absolutely. And it is a low turnout - those endorsements matter a heck of a lot more right now. And it's interesting - boy, that point on population growth - we've added 30,000 people since '14. That's an incredibly good point. And he may be - you could almost look at his campaign like he is a new entrant into the race and we have three first-timers. That's a really interesting way to look at it. Especially when you're in an office that just isn't watched. I mean, there hasn't been high profile cases, they work a lot behind closed doors as attorneys do. Boy, when I'm hitting refresh on Tuesday night, it's going to be looking at that race. Crystal Fincher: [00:15:43] That's going to be one of the first races that I'm looking at. And who knows how that's going to end up? One and two could be anyone in that race. It could include Pete Holmes, it could not include Pete Holmes. Just really interesting. And the polling shows that it's completely up in the air. So, that's interesting. The other race that we saw some notable polling in was in the City Council race, with Brianna Thomas, Nikkita Oliver, and Sara Nelson - where Nikkita seems to be in a comfortable position in the lead. I'm actually pulling up this polling to get the exact numbers as we speak. Marco Lowe: [00:16:33] 26% was- Crystal Fincher: [00:16:36] Yeah. And so look, especially comparing this with the numbers in the other races - I mean, we're looking at Pete Holmes at 14%, Bruce Harrell at 15%. Seeing Nikkita Oliver at 26% - that's a big number. It's a big number, especially compared to a number of the other numbers. Certainly helps that Nikkita had been on a citywide ballot before - with this has Sara Nelson at 11%, Brianna Thomas at 6%. Again, Undecided - still 50%. So, again, when you're looking at this, it certainly is a race for number two, it appears, that could go any way. And with 50% of people Undecided and looking at Seattle ballot return - Seattle was trending a few percentage points behind the full King County number, which in my opinion, Seattle usually - well, I guess the fact that Seattle usually ends up with higher turnout numbers, but I feel like they may be lagging behind a little bit, because there are some tough choices for Seattle residents to make that aren't as tough in other cities, and in terms of City Council and mayoral races. So it just may take people a little longer to decide, but I anticipate that we'll see a Seattle number probably higher than the overall King County number. But this is going to be another interesting race to watch. And seeing Brianna Thomas and Sara Nelson - seeing how they both make their final statements. Sara Nelson ended up with The Times endorsement, Nikkita Oliver got The Stranger endorsement. Just saw today, PubliCola endorsed Brianna Thomas in the race. So we will see how this finishes out. But again, another one of those races that is not sold and that has a big Undecided number. Marco Lowe: [00:18:36] And you're seeing it's an open seat - when Nikkita Oliver, when they ran last time - if somebody agreed with them or not, oh my gosh, they were amazing. That King 5 debate - they owned the stage on numerous answers. And so, we have that name ID for them. Sara Nelson did not get through the primary last time. This is Brianna Thomas's first race. 26%, I mean, that's- Crystal Fincher: [00:19:06] Second race actually. Marco Lowe: [00:19:07] Second race. Oh, I apologize - so second race. So yeah, they're in a real strong position. And then you get to the general and it kind of resets, but I agree with you. Compared to the Mayor's race, it'd be hard to see them not going to the general. City-wide race to city-wide race, this is how people get into elected office. Crystal Fincher: [00:19:30] Yeah. I would agree. It is - this more than any other situation, that's hard not to see Nikkita getting through to the general. This seems like it would be the least likely to wind up in a surprise for the person in the lead in this poll to not make it through. But I do think that it's - we're up in the air for number two. Certainly a Times endorsement - countywide, a Times endorsement is a big deal. This could be something that really helps, or actually hurts - in terms of a Seattle race. But I also think an interesting dynamic there, because the voters who that would probably hurt most with are probably leaning towards Nikkita. But there is a lot to be talked about just in terms of people's records, whether they've been honest and forthcoming about those records. And I think that there may be more to come about that in the race. We will see. Marco Lowe: [00:20:39] Agreed. And also, you see this if Seattle breaks into, I call it, the outer ring and the inner ring. And the outer ring, homes with a view, tend to be the more conservative Seattle Times voters. And the inner ring tends to be the more progressive candidates. And you see the progressive candidates win when they push out the ring and the conservative candidates win when they compress the ring. And that's where I think you're going to see if Sara Nelson can attract the outer ring voters or not. Crystal Fincher: [00:21:07] Absolutely. And we will put in the show notes a review or links to different organizations and the endorsements that they've made. I know, certainly, it helps me sometimes to read through how other organizations are making their decisions, if I'm undecided about something. And I certainly have spoken to a lot of Seattle voters who still don't know which way they're voting in a number of races. So, this is still a critical time for making the case and people are still trying to decide. There's still a lot of communication that campaigns have to do. And that's also still making a difference. So the race is still shaping up. Marco Lowe: [00:21:49] If I can throw in one quick thing too - for all the races in Seattle, I think these three candidates have done an excellent job of articulating what they want to see in the City. This is as issue-based race as I've seen in a long time and I appreciate it. There's a lot of, "Here's what I'd like to do." And I just really appreciate that. A lot of races tend to say, "Look over here, look over there, but not right at what I'm trying to do." That is not the case. All the mail has been very specific. Crystal Fincher: [00:22:21] Yeah. Which I appreciate and I think is actually necessary at this point in time - not just that someone has a vision, and we've heard lots about people's visions. Or even that they're supported by, "I've got a ton of endorsements." Lots of candidates can tout that, but what do you actually plan to do with your power and authority and your jurisdiction? What are your plans? Not what we can do regionally, not what we need partners to do, or what we can study and learn more about doing, but what are your actual plans? What action will you take? I really do hope voters take a look at what candidates have said on that. And to your point, in that City Council race, there certainly is a lot that have been talked about for what the candidates actually plan to do, the action that they plan to take. And I hope they look at the mayoral race through that lens to say, "Okay. It's one thing to say, 'Yes, I believe in equity and treating people well, and we can have a better Seattle tomorrow,' but what have they committed to doing? What are our concrete steps and concrete actions beyond 'A lot of people support me?'" Marco Lowe: [00:23:42] And I give a little bit of credit to Nikkita Oliver on that. Anytime they're on stage, they are ticking off boxes. And even on Twitter, they said with a retirement of Seattle police officers, this money should be going to these kind of community groups. And again, this is a constant statement of what they would do in office. So, just - you kind of set the example - and the other candidates, it's hard to be on stage if you're not doing that as well. Crystal Fincher: [00:24:13] Very hard to be on stage if you're not doing that. I mean, just drawing on - we had conversations with all three of those candidates on Hacks & Wonks, and I heard a lot of information in detail and frankly, leading by example, from Nikkita Oliver, Brianna Thomas. Heard a lot of" I don't know"s from Sara Nelson and "We'll have to study that and figure that out." it's also interesting to see how campaign candidate rhetoric evolves throughout the campaign. So, a little bit more polished, but I certainly think that it is more natural for some candidates to be more action and ownership focused than others. And I think that's really important, especially at a time like this, when so much needs to be done to get us on the right track. Marco Lowe: [00:25:09] Sometimes just where they are in the race too. They're kind of - I mean, where I've started with some candidates early on at positions and later they may get better, but I agree, that's going to be a really interesting race. Crystal Fincher: [00:25:23] Going to be a really interesting race. So, we've covered races. Another thing that I wanted to talk about this week is it's taken a little bit for the state to compile all the numbers on what the impact of the historic heat wave that happened as a result of climate change was, but 112 deaths is the current toll. Throughout the entire Northwest - hospitalizations up over 60x. Not 60%, but 60x higher than what they normally are. So, the toll that the heat took on our communities was huge and devastating. It was the most lethal weather event that Washington State has ever had. And by all accounts, more extreme heat is something that we have to be expecting, because of climate change over the coming years. So this is something that our state and local governments have to prepare for. And frankly, it seemed like a lot of them were caught flat footed with, "Oh, heat coming. Oh, it's just another heat wave." We have some of these occasionally, but especially with the amount of folks that we have who are unhoused, who are vulnerable with a low percentage of air conditioning in homes and apartments now. This - you could see it coming - was a major threat to people's health and wellbeing. And it just seemed like a lot of governments were viewing this as something that was happening, that they didn't have to prepare for, that they weren't responsible for. And I think that we have to have a massive shift in attitude that, "Hey, this is something that is predictable - the consequences, the deaths, and the casualties are preventable. And we actually have a responsibility to prevent it." How did you see that play out? Marco Lowe: [00:27:30] I agree. A lot of local governments looked very flat-footed and we saw this temperature coming over a week away. And that's just irresponsible to not have both cooling centers, and how you get people there. The humans that are most vulnerable to this heat, whose bodies can't cool themselves. And at 105°, nobody's cooling themselves. Crystal Fincher: [00:27:47] No one. Marco Lowe: [00:27:49] But the most vulnerable aren't often driving. We have a whole issue with seniors in America that are somewhat stranded. Whether they can't drive, they live in a non-walkable community, what have you. So it's not just that you open the centers, but you get people in the center. And you staff them and people may be sleeping in those centers, because the night did not get better. So we have this immediate tactical response that we need to have better going forward, because we're not done. 2021 has been a B-roll for a disaster film - Texas mold, China and New York rain, Northwest heat, the fires in Oregon, in Washington, California, and the smoke that's gone all the way to New York City. We are in climate change, people are dying, and we have to react now. The other thing I'll throw in is that we are watching a fight in Washington, D.C., over an infrastructure bill that has in it more money towards renewable energy, so we can decarbonize this world. And America has to be a leader on it, because we are most of the carbon. So, to have both this tactical response and strategic response is essential and immediate and there's not a this or that. It is all of the above. Crystal Fincher: [00:28:53] It is all of the above. And I forget who it was on Twitter, but someone very astutely tweeted like really there is no neutral action on climate change. Every piece of legislation that every City Council person advocates for, passes, mayor legislator, there is no neutrality on climate change, on pollution. We have to examine every piece of legislation and say, is it hurting or is it helping? And to that point, we have a transportation package coming up in our State Legislature, where this has been a big point of conversation and contention - in that, are we going to continue to push for highway expansion and building and road expansion, which is the number one source of pollution. Over 40% of greenhouse gas emissions and a lot of air pollution is directly attributable to the transportation sector. So, are we going to continue and move in that direction? Are we going to start to move in the other direction? And to your point, climate change is here. We are dealing with it. And we also talked about, before the show - a point you made, which is very true - a lot of people have been pushed out of the city, because of affordability, into suburbs. A lot of our most vulnerable people now live in suburbs. And what people always hear talk about the "inner city," which is really a relic of the past, especially here on the West Coast. And that extreme poverty and some of that hardship is now in suburbs, who do not have the human services infrastructure that was built and developed in cities. And so, access to transit, access to assistance and help, just the visibility and prioritization of human services and health, in a lot of these suburbs and rural areas just does not exist. And it's not something that they've even factored in before and thinking in conversation. So, we're so behind. And so, experiencing these lethal challenges with some governments who just up to now aren't up to the task, we just need a rapid redeployment of resources, a rapid getting electeds up to speed, and demand from people in every city that you're in, that this is an essential service of government. Fundamentally, they're there to protect their residents and to keep them from foreseeable harm. And this is a threat that we know exists. It's so interesting seeing how heat and climate related disasters are covered in comparison to a lot of other things. Because there's this tendency for media to just cover it as an extreme weather event, disconnected from anything else, and like, wow, that was wild. Who could have predicted that? Or that was a once in 100 year event. We've seen these once in 100 year events, several times a year, all over the place. This is what climate change is. We have a responsibility to prevent it from getting worse. And man, we're already in for it getting worse and more just trying to prevent Earth from being uninhabitable for a majority of its people and for mitigating those impacts. So, we have to take action. I've certainly been vocal about this and the responsibility that local governments have to their residents to protect them. And that deaths and injuries that result are really a matter of negligence at this point, because we know what these consequences are. And either we choose to act and protect people or ignore the risk, and people should be held to account for that. Marco Lowe: [00:32:53] And if U.S. and, frankly, human history teaches us anything, when a crisis hits the wealthy will be taken care of. I mean, I have to - in my head, Exxon has a Dr. Evil lair some place, where they know they're going to be okay. I know that sounds crazy, but they know the data better than we do. They've been looking at it for 40 years and continued on their path. So if they're comfortable, it's not that they don't see the change, it's that they don't worry that it's going to impact them. And that has to be part of it. I will also just really - you said something that's worth putting a light back on. Legislation all needs a lens - is this making it better or worse? There is no middle land. I just think that's a really, really great idea. Crystal Fincher: [00:33:35] Well, thank you so much - we are at this time - certainly, issues that we both feel very passionately about. But I just want to thank you, the listener, for listening to Hacks & Wonks on KVRU 105.7 FM, this Friday, July 23rd. The producer of Hacks & Wonks is Lisl Stadler. And our wonderful cohost today was Professor at Seattle University's Institute for Public Service, Marco Lowe. You can find Marco on Twitter @MarcoLowe, it's M-A-R-C-O-L-O-W-E. You can find me on Twitter @finchfrii, spelled F-I-N-C-H-F-R-I-I. Now you can follow Hacks & Wonks on iTunes, Spotify or wherever else you get your podcasts. Just type "Hacks & Wonks" into the search bar, be sure to subscribe to get our Friday almost-live show and our midweek show delivered to your podcast feed. If you like us, leave us a review wherever you listen to Hacks & Wonks. You can also get a full transcript of this episode and links to resources referenced in the show at officialhacksandwonks.com and in the episode notes. Thanks for tuning in. We'll talk to you next time.

Although over half the people incarcerated in America today have committed violent offenses, the focus of reformers has been almost entirely on nonviolent and drug offenses. Danielle Sered takes aim at issues of mass incarceration, insisting that we cannot just critique violence and mass incarceration, but must build practical, moral solutions to displace them. She joined us, drawing from her book Until We Reckon to grapple with the question of restorative approaches to violent crime in conversation with local grassroots community organizer and Creative Justice Executive Director Nikkita Oliver. Sered and Oliver explored whether the needs of survivors of violent crime are better met by asking people who commit violence to accept responsibility for their actions and making amends in ways that are meaningful to those they have hurt—none of which currently happens in the context of a criminal trial or a prison sentence. Sered argued that a reckoning is owed not only on the part of those who have committed violence, but also by our nation's overreliance on incarceration to produce the illusion of safety—at great cost to communities, survivors, racial equity, and the very fabric of our democracy. Together they illuminated how ending mass incarceration and increasing public safety is not just a local issue but is also very relevant to the Seattle-King County region. Join them as they ask us to fundamentally reconsider our relationship to and the purposes of incarceration. Danielle Sered envisioned and directs Common Justice, which develops and advances practical and groundbreaking solutions to violence that advance racial equity, meet the needs of those harmed, and do not rely on incarceration. Before planning the launch of Common Justice, Sered served as the deputy director of the Vera Institute of Justice's Adolescent Reentry Initiative, a program for young men returning from incarceration on Rikers Island. She the author of The Other Side of Harm: Addressing Disparities in our Responses to Violence, of Accounting for Violence: How to Increase Safety and Break Our Failed Reliance on Mass Incarceration, and the book Until We Reckon: Violence, Mass Incarceration, and a Road to Repair. Nikkita Oliver (they/them) is a Seattle-based creative, community organizer, abolitionist, educator, and attorney. They are the executive director of Creative Justice, an arts-based alternative to incarceration and a healing engaged youth-led community-based program. Oliver organizes with No New Youth Jail, Decriminalize Seattle, Covid-19 Mutual Aid Seattle, and the Seattle People's Party. They have been featured on the Breakfast Club, KUOW's The Week in Review, and The Late Night Show with Stephen Colbert, and their work has been seen on the South Seattle Emerald, Crosscut, the Establishment, and more. Buy the Book: https://www.elliottbaybook.com/book/9781620976579  Presented by Common Justice and Town Hall Seattle. 

Today former Seattle mayor and Executive Director of America Walks Mike McGinn joins Crystal  to dissect the most recent finance numbers in the mayor's race and break down what they mean, and discuss how Seattle mayoral candidates are seeking to position themselves in this year's race. Then tea is spilled about how Seattle City Attorney Pete Holmes doomed the SPD consent decree from the start, how his challenger, Nicole Thomas-Kennedy, looks to be qualifying for Democracy Vouchers sooner than him, and how that race might unfold.  As always, a full text transcript of the show is available below and at officialhacksandwonks.com. Find the host, Crystal Fincher on Twitter at @finchfrii, and find today's co-host, Mike McGinn, at @mayormcginn. More info is available atofficialhacksandwonks.com.   Resources “Effort to Expand Hotel Shelters Has Broad Support, Recycled Statements Replace False Endorsement Claims on Compassion Seattle Website” from Publicola:https://publicola.com/2021/06/09/effort-to-expand-hotel-shelters-has-broad-support-recycled-statements-replace-false-endorsement-claims-on-compassion-seattle-website/ “Police Make Mass Arrests at Protest Against Oil Pipeline” by Hiroko Tabuchi, Matt Furber, and Coral Davenport: https://www.nytimes.com/2021/06/07/climate/line-3-pipeline-protest-native-americans.html Campaign finance reports from the Seattle Ethics and Elections Commission: http://web6.seattle.gov/ethics/elections/campaigns.aspx?cycle=2021&type=campaign&IDNum=749&leftmenu=collapsed “Democracy vouchers play crucial role as candidates compete for cash in Seattle mayoral race” by Daniel Beekman and Jim Brunner:https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/politics/democracy-vouchers-play-crucial-role-as-candidates-compete-for-cash-in-seattle-mayoral-race/ “Pete Holmes to seek fourth term as Seattle City Attorney” by David Kroman:https://crosscut.com/politics/2021/02/pete-holmes-seek-fourth-term-seattle-city-attorney “Abolitionist Nicole Thomas-Kenney Announces Last-Minute Run for City Attorney” by Mark Van Streefkerk: https://southseattleemerald.com/2021/06/10/abolitionist-nicole-thomas-kennedy-announces-last-minute-run-for-city-attorney/ “Seattle police funding debate turns to flawed officer behavior system” by David Kroman:https://crosscut.com/news/2021/05/seattle-police-funding-debate-turns-flawed-officer-behavior-system “Can the Seattle Police Department Consent Decree Be Fixed?” by Paul Kiefer:https://publicola.com/2021/06/03/can-the-the-seattle-police-department-consent-decree-be-fixed/ “Court Monitor Bobb Helped Create Seattle's Police Reform Mess” by Doug Trumm:https://www.theurbanist.org/2020/09/14/court-monitor-bobb-helped-create-seattles-police-reform-mess/ “Seattle police had a chance to prove abolitionists wrong. They didn't.” by Shaun Scott:https://crosscut.com/opinion/2021/05/seattle-police-had-chance-prove-abolitionists-wrong-they-didnt   Transcript Crystal Fincher: [00:00:00] Welcome to Hacks & Wonks. I'm Crystal Fincher, and I'm a political consultant and your host. On this show, we talk with Policy Wonks and Political Hacks to gather insight into local politics and policy in Washington state through the lens of those doing the work, with behind-the-scenes perspectives on what's happening, why it's happening, and what you can do about it. Full transcripts and resources referenced in the show are always available at officialhacksandwonks.com and in our episode notes.  Today, we're continuing our Friday almost-live shows where we review the news of the week with a cohost. Welcome back to the program, friend of the show, former mayor of Seattle, and today's co-host: activist, community leader, and current Executive Director of America Walks, the excellent Mike McGinn. Mike McGinn: [00:00:57] I always enjoy being here Crystal and I am a subscriber to Hacks & Wonks on the podcast platform of my choice. So go to the podcast platform of your choice and subscribe and support Crystal and KVRU.  Crystal Fincher: [00:01:14] Well, I appreciate that. I appreciate you. And we always get a lot of comments whenever you're on the show, because you kind of bring the heat when it comes to context and history of like - okay, lots of people moved to Seattle in the past 10 years. I mean, we've had a population explosion - so a lot of people listening today and here in the City were actually not here when you were mayor, and don't have the memory of what happened, and are missing the context of a lot of what happened. How did we get into this Consent Decree situation? What initially happened back when Jenny Durkan was a federal prosecutor and Pete Holmes was running for office, and how did we get into the situation we find ourselves in today? You have a lot of that context, so we appreciate it.  Speaking of that context, we have some - a lot of news this week. Looking over - just lots of items have happened this week - Compassion Seattle having to take down its webpage listing false endorsements, we got tax documents on billionaires. Big items this week with - the Olga Park encampment sweep by the City,  Durkan vs. Seattle Public Schools on the encampment in Bitter Lake, hybrid work models coming back with Amazon, the state reinstating around a 100,000 driver's license and halting the practice of revoking licenses for non-payment of traffic fines, three pipeline protests - the Line 3 pipeline protests, Keystone XL pipeline finally dead - which is great and awesome.  But we'll start out with - we just got new fundraising numbers in the mayoral race. Well, in all of the Seattle races, but I guess we can start with the mayoral race and just for the breakdown - where we are currently at. The top six mayoral candidates right now, in terms of contributions - Colleen Echohawk and Andrew Grant Houston are right neck-and-neck at $399,987 and $[399,]978 respectively. There is a $400,000 cap initially on the ability to accept Democracy Vouchers, and so they are at that cap and can't cash in anything beyond that cap. Following that, Bruce Harrell at $308,000, Lorena González at $299,000, Jessyn Farrell $134,000, and Casey Sixkiller at $43,000.  So, you know, Colleen Echohawk and Andrew Grant Houston are just - they're just getting more cash than they know what to do with. And I think both of them - certainly Andrew Grant Houston has reported a significant amount of vouchers, basically in waiting, that he has banked if and when the cap on those expenditures gets raised. So I guess, how are you looking at this? Just on that number - the contributions and what they're doing, Mike. Mike McGinn: [00:04:15] I think it's very, it's really interesting. You know one of - there's a few things that are interesting. One, it is worth noting that there is a $400,000 cap on expenditures for those that are in the Democracy Voucher program, and if an opponent or if an independent expenditure campaign tips the balance over $400,000, then Ethics and Elections can give permission to people to do more. I think what really jumps out at me though, is that the two people in the race that are not office holders seem to have had the most success just collecting vouchers. Now Andrew Grant Houston hired people to do it, and they're out there canvassing and collecting them. And so that's one technique. I think Colleen Echohawk - they've just been coming in.  And it's kind of surprising because you'd expect that the people that had held office before - Jessyn Farrell, Bruce Harrell, Lorena González - they all have, should have substantial mailing lists. They should all have a substantial base of donors who are used to giving them money for their campaigns. They both, all three of them, have run multiple times and - but none of them have maxed out. None of them have hit the cap. Theoretically, they have a more sophisticated campaign operation, including the database and donors, to hit that first. So if these numbers are affirming what some of the polling that we've seen has shown, which is that there's a sentiment out there that the City's on the wrong track - the right track, wrong track numbers are very much leaning towards wrong track from multiple sources. And so that's favoring outsiders. And I - in 2009 when I ran, I was an outsider and it ended up - and I was running against an incumbent, Greg Nickels. There was another outsider in the race, Joe Mallahan - he was a businessman who put in his own money. And everybody always looked at fundraising, and I didn't fundraise that much compared to the others, but I fundraised enough. But the incumbent had the most money. Another candidate in the race was a long-time City Councilmember, Jan Drago, and they both finished out of the - neither of them made the top two out of the primary. So in a lot of ways, honestly, this feels to me like 2009 in that political dynamic of the outsider is going to do better.  I had to wait for the votes to actually show that there was public sentiment for me. The use of the Democracy Vouchers is a measure of public sentiment. And it's kind of fascinating to me 'cause political types, before Democracy Vouchers, just were meticulous at looking at who donated to who, and how much money they had - and they would use that as a metric for success. Now that Democracy Vouchers are out there, they're like, "Ah, money doesn't really matter anymore." Well, hold it. The outsiders are maxing out with regular people handing over the vouchers, and the insiders with all of their political apparatus are struggling to get to the finish line. Something's going on out there - that's what this is telling me.  Crystal Fincher: [00:07:35] Yeah, it is really interesting to see this dynamic. And as you point out, it is not the people who you would think have very established mailing lists and contacts and donor bases from the campaigns that they ran to get elected in the first place. And this may be a measure of insider money versus outsider or regular people who typically aren't intimately involved, particularly early in campaigns and this process. So it is really interesting just to see the effect that Democracy Vouchers have had. And as you point out, it really is a measure of, "Hey, where are regular people at" - that you have to actually interact with the residents, in some form with your campaign, to get these Democracy Vouchers. And my goodness, they have gotten a lot more of them than their opponents at this point in time.  But also, related to this conversation, and you talk about in your campaign - you didn't raise as much money as the other candidates, but you certainly had enough to execute your plan. Yeah, and get your message out. And so having the cash-on-hand in order to do that is important. And so - one, is just looking at the contributions, but really what a lot of people are looking at in politics is, "Okay. But how much money do you have - meaning you try and keep your expenditures on other items down, because the more you can spend directly communicating with residents and voters in the City, the better you are when it comes - to be able to turn out that vote. The cash-on-hand story is actually a very different story. Colleen Echohawk actually has not spent much on the race - she has spent $83,000. Her cash-on-hand is $316,000 - so that's in the bank still able to be spent. Andrew Grant Houston has actually spent the most so far out of the top six candidates in the race. And so even though he's raised $400,000, his cash-on-hand $134,000, which is less than the next two people in terms of fundraising. Bruce Harrell has $220,000 in cash-on-hand. Lorena González has $149,000 in cash-on-hand, then Jessyn Farrell with $58,000, and Casey Sixkiller with $26,000 on-hand. So that's a very different story than just that top line of fundraising, and really impacts how many people you can communicate with outside of free media models like news - in the paper and online - and communicating with people that way. What do you see when you look at that?  Mike McGinn: [00:10:20] Well, you're right.  Obviously cash-on-hand is the metric that matters. And the fundraising from Democracy Vouchers and from donors is some measure both of the degree to which you have support from some base of supporters, as well as the degree to which you have support from people that are used to giving money. So it's a little bit of an indicator as well.  So that's - so what's interesting to me when I look at that and you see the two bottom people - Casey Sixkiller doesn't appear to be a very serious candidate right now. Like if he was a credible challenger from - so I'll back up a little bit - we've spoken about this before. You know, there's generally a right lane and a left lane in Seattle politics. There's an assumption here that Casey is in the right lane - looking for more support from the business communities, a former - he is the deputy mayor to the incumbent. Well, whether it's the business community or the public, it doesn't appear that people think that a current deputy mayor to Jenny Durkan is a really good investment of their Democracy Voucher or their hard-earned dollars, either one. So not looking like he's getting much traction there for people who are - who might be more sophisticated about who to back. I think that Jessyn Farrell is down at this low level - kind of says the same thing. I mean, she's run multiple times in Seattle. She had a mayoral race four years ago, in which she ran a credible race, and she's just not kind of getting the support. And something else jumped out at me - and it was listening to your podcast, Crystal - is that she's a backer of the Compassion Seattle measure, which is starting to become a real indicator of what lane are you in. And when she says that she supports the Compassion Seattle - tells me that she wants to run in the right lane. And actually we spoke about this at length in a podcast a while ago. I said, she's not running in the left lane.  Crystal Fincher: [00:12:27] You called it first.  Mike McGinn: [00:12:28] I called it first - right! She's working the right lane because the Compassion Seattle is very much backed by the business community as their solution. And what we see is that Echohawk and Houston and Lorena are opposed to it and so they're over there in the left lane. And Harrell and Farrell and Sixkiller are for it, so that's the right lane. Well, it just kind of speaks a little bit to the fact that Jessyn can't quite figure out her lane. And I could talk more about this concept too, but that's just really fascinating to me. And I think there's another thing - that's if you'll permit me just to do a little bit of analysis.  Crystal Fincher: [00:13:04] Have at it!  Mike McGinn: [00:13:05] I'll just do a little more analysis here that comes to mind. You know, when I was working within the Sierra Club and endorsing candidates, what really became clear to me was that there was a - there were kind of two sources of candidates as well that don't map exactly with the left lane-right lane, but mostly. And the Chamber of Commerce and the downtown business community was one source of dollars in support for a candidate, and labor as a whole was another source. So in 2001, it was Nickels versus Sidran, and that was a classic business candidate versus a labor candidate. Every other constituency in town kind of has to decide who - where do we go with that? And social services tends to go with labor, and environmentalists go with labor, but sometimes there's a business candidate they like. The neighborhood people - where are they going to go. But all of those other constituencies or communities, and it might be immigrant and refugee communities, or the Black community - they don't necessarily run their own candidates. They tend to have to line up behind the business candidate or the labor candidate. Now when I ran, Greg, at that point - Nickels had been in office for eight years, and he pretty much had both. That's one of the things that an incumbent can do, right? What'll happen is - everybody's getting just enough out of the incumbent that they don't want to take a risk on a challenger. So he had the Chamber of Commerce, which I think was a little shaky on Greg Nickels. He wasn't their guy from the beginning and he had a big chunk of the unions, and I was coming in without either of those. And so was Joe, but then he got business, and I got a little bit of labor in the general.  By the time we got to 2013, we saw a really interesting phenomenon, which was a traditional Democrat in Ed Murray. He had the Chamber support and he had a bunch of labor support. I had some too, but we split labor. And now we, all of a sudden, we saw this business-labor alliance in '13 anoint Ed Murray as the candidate. And this was worked out by the kingmakers and the power elites of the city, right. And I know that sounds a little exaggerated, but trust me - there are specific people who sit down and pick who their candidate is. Same thing happened with Jenny Durkan, who was the named candidate. She picked up the Labor Council endorsement, the Construction Trades - which like highways and other things, backed her. The police officer's union was part of that at the time. So for two cycles in a row, we got these coalitions of labor-business candidates.  And now in this race, all of a sudden, we have a very clear labor candidate in Lorena González and a pretty clear business candidate in Bruce Harrell. And going back to Jessyn, I think she was running as if she could be one of those business-labor hybrid candidates of the last two cycles, but that coalition has broken apart. Now it's a straight business and a straight labor. But what's fascinating is that in the years, the same forces that have now - give us two different candidates, right. But business and labor can't find common ground now - that's too much inequality, too much issues around taxes and homelessness - for them to be able to find a candidate to bridge that. And I, again, I think Jessyn was trying to run as that candidate. They can't do it, but the same forces that produce that dynamic also means that candidates that are outside of those two bases are credible.  So, if you look at the - if you look at the citywide City Council race, we kind of have the same dynamic. We have a business candidate in Sara Nelson, we have the labor candidate in Brianna Thomas, and then you have the neither-of-the-above candidate, Nikkita Oliver, who's coming with a base of support that's completely outside of those two usual centers of gravity and power in the City. So that's kind of the question in this race - is does Colleen Echohawk come from her background as a social services provider, Native American woman? Does Andrew Grant Houston somehow or another slingshot off of the urbanist base. And again, neither of them are going to get very many endorsements from labor, business or a lot of the other traditional players, because everybody's kind of used to - you got to go with one of those. I didn't get any of those in the primary in '09 and I won, right? So it's a very interesting dynamic this year and I think Democracy Vouchers really pushes that even more. And there's no room left for somebody who's trying to be like progressive enough for progressives, but a dealmaker enough for the conservatives. There's no room for that candidate in this cycle - anybody's trying to run that way is like - there's no base for them.  Crystal Fincher: [00:18:30] Well, and as you've mentioned before and mentioned earlier today, what were you polling at before you won the primary, like six weeks out?  Mike McGinn: [00:18:38] Yeah, no, this is really important stuff - like people see the polls, and the fact that what it shows right now - and these are candidate polls, so take it with a grain of salt. But it kind of shows that Bruce and Lorena are doing better than others, but they're also better known than others. About five to six weeks out before the primary, maybe three weeks out before ballots dropped - and I was at 7% in 2009 in the primary, Greg Nickels was at 23% or something like that, Joe Mallahan was at 7%, and a former City Councilwoman Jan Drago - or current City Councilwoman at the time, Jan Drago - was like at 15% or 16% or something like that. But when Election Day came around, Mallahan and I were - I was first, he was second, and Greg was third and he hadn't moved.  And the point is that polls right now - the voters aren't paying attention yet. And all of the materials, all of that money we were talking about - hasn't been spent on campaign communications yet. The messages have not been delivered, right? Like the articles about who should I vote for, the conversations that are just going to start occurring around town of who you're for and why - none of that's really happened yet. And when that happens, that changes those numbers dramatically. And that's why, you can try to crystal ball it and say - no pun intended - but you can try and crystal ball this and say, "Well, here's what I think is going to happen." And we've been doing a little bit of that here saying, "Oh, it's an outsider year, right?" Like that's what the hints are telling us, but it's - this is really an up-in-the-air election, I would say. And having polling at 20% right now, or 15%, if you're a relatively well-known politician in town - that may be your lid. That may be as high as you can go, and your numbers might go lower once they hear about another candidate. Crystal Fincher: [00:20:37] Yeah, and it's an interesting dynamic - you certainly raise a lot of very relevant and helpful issues for context in how to think about this race. When I look at these numbers, I think about what you mentioned earlier in terms of the right track-wrong track polling, and for me, how insufficient it is just to ask that question and make an assumption on that answer. Because right now people ask about the right track-wrong track and the media, I think, has created a popular impression that the City's actions are those of the City Council. But actually when you look at the City Council and Jenny Durkan, both of whom can be characterized as the City - those are two very different viewpoints, two very different philosophies and stances on issues. The City Council has vetoed what Durkan has done, so there's polarization there. And so when someone says things are on the right track, the thing that I see a lot of people doing is concluding - "Well, therefore it means that real people want the issues and the stances that I personally agree with, and this is the proof because people say things are wrong and bad right now."  But looking at - if we're using these fundraising numbers and others, especially with Democracy Vouchers from real people as a - some kind of indicator as to where people are really at. The people, as you talked about, if we're using Compassion Seattle as kind of the most visible proxy for which lanes people are in, those that are not supporting are just dominating in terms of fundraising and Democracy Vouchers. So in terms of the wrong track that the City is taking - is it that some of the inaction and opposition to being able to execute the direction that the City Council has given - is that the frustration? Like, "Hey, at least do something instead of just vetoing stuff and saying stuff is unacceptable, but not doing that much about it." Or is it that people are unhappy with the direction of the Council - looking at the available polling, and to be clear - undecided is the top vote-getter right now in every single poll that's been written, internal and otherwise. So to your point, lots of movement yet to come. But with that, it would suggest that people aren't that unhappy with the Council, as some media narratives suggest, with Lorena making it into the top two, but also not being tied to an insider or wanting to go further to the left if you look at Andrew Grant Houston, or even some of Colleen Echohawk, stances. So it's to be determined where people are at in ultimately deciding what they prefer the direction of the City to be. But I don't think it can be gleaned from a right track-wrong track number. I think that's probably a poor indicator. Mike McGinn: [00:23:40] Yeah.I think that there's a few things in there. One is the - I think for people that are more involved in politics, there's very definitely a Council-versus-the-mayor dynamic that's been going on for the last number of years. And for people who side with the Council in that fight, and for the most part - for the most part, almost everything - I do. That matters in the race. But there's a lot of other people who can't parse that, who don't really feel like they're in a position to figure out who's really right or wrong in that discussion. And I think that's one of the challenges then if you are a current City Councilmember, or even a former one in Bruce's case, right? He was in office in the years in which homelessness went up - and to say, "I'm the person who can come in and fix it." - that's going to be a challenge.  And Lorena will have the same challenge. Having said that, she's probably and is drawing support in particular from labor - unions - for the things that she has delivered for them. Like she has stood up on issues that have led for labor to support her. So it is a mixed bag. I guess I would - speaking from personal experience, I wish that the public had taken a closer look at what was the underlying issues between the City Council and me at the time I was mayor, but I have to say, I know a lot of voters didn't. And a lot of those were just like, "You know what. It seems like the mayor and the Council aren't getting along. We need to get someone new in there." And not only did they - not only did I lose a close race to somebody who said, "I'm going to do everything McGinn did, except I'll do it better." Both of them were false - you'll grant me the opportunity to say that opinion. But, uh - but that was -  Crystal Fincher: [00:25:35] I agree.  Mike McGinn: [00:25:35] - that was his pitch - no ideological issues. "I'm just gonna, I'll just be better at doing it." But they also delivered districts - elections - which was a repudiation of the City Council in the same election. So when the mayor and the Council are fighting, the pox on both your houses thing is real and strong. And so the last point I'll make is - these right track-wrong numbers I've been seeing are really high. They were far higher than they were in 2009 when I ran. And again, an incumbent lost then - and right then the right track-wrong track weren't that far apart then. So these are very - these are historically high right track-wrong track if these polls are accurate. And I think we'll  see more polls that will show it to be that. Which is why I think it's an outsider election, but I also know it's also wide open. And I think the candidates know that too, right now. If you're a mayor watcher, everybody's going to be trying to figure out how do I grab my votes out of that pool of undecided voters? What do I have to do to get some votes? And I think you're going to see candidates working harder to stand out in the next few weeks.  Crystal Fincher: [00:26:47] All right. So we have covered the conversation about the mayor's race in more detail than we thought we were going to get into, but I definitely also want to make sure to talk about the City Attorney race. And so how are you looking at this - with Pete Holmes currently there, but with his challenger, Nicole Thomas-Kennedy, at this point actually qualifying for Democracy Vouchers. Even though she entered the race much later than he did, she's qualifying for Democracy Vouchers before Pete Holmes. Why do you think that is? Mike McGinn: [00:27:22] Well, I think this is really fascinating. I mean, it's pretty clear from her own words that Nicole Thomas-Kennedy got into the race pretty much at the last minute, because she thought it was really important to raise issues, about police reform in particular. And like candidates have discovered before - they get into the race just because they feel they need to carry a conversation, then all of a sudden they discover that maybe there's some momentum behind that. I think that was true with Kshama Sawant against Richard Conlin - I think she got into that race the first time she was elected to the City Council to make sure there was a debate and discovered she had momentum. I think that happened to Bernie Sanders when he entered the race against Hillary Clinton for the Democratic primary and all of a sudden he discovered he had momentum. And I think the same thing has happened to Nicole Thomas-Kennedy.  We were talking about insider or outsider - Pete's been in office for 12 years. And, you know, he, he came in as a progressive reformer on a variety of issues, very much supported by the nightclub industry at the time, because of the way the Nickel's administration was harsh to nightclub establishments. But he came into office - it's been 12 years and it looks like the public is ready for someone different, if the voucher numbers are to be believed. Now I'm not saying that that's how this race is going to turn out, but that there was more support for a challenger than probably Pete anticipated or Nicole Thomas-Kennedy anticipated.  Crystal Fincher: [00:28:54] And a lot of people in the public anticipated. Why do you think there is seemingly this much of an appetite, even an early appetite - looking at early endorsements and meetings and how those are going among insiders. Even those are turning out to be tougher for Pete Holmes than I think a lot of people anticipated. What's going on? Mike McGinn: [00:29:16] Well, you know, I think Pete's found himself in a - well, if you want to try to pin it down - he's been in office 12 years. And I was thinking about this the other day - I think since I signed the Consent Decree in 2012, that there've been 5 mayors, if you count a couple of interims. I think there've been 5 police chiefs, counting interims. Several City Council presidents, we've even had two Monitors - but during that entire 12 years, we've only had one City Attorney and that's Pete Holmes. And he positions himself as a reformer, and essential to reform. In fact, I've heard him say, "You can't ask me to leave now because we have to finish the job of reform." Well, we've been told - we were being told for years by the Monitor and mayors - that reform was on track and Pete was joining that chorus. And what we saw with the protests, and the police behavior, and tear-gassing the public - leading to a federal court order against it. What we see is that reform failed. And Pete says he was at the helm of that, but now he has to be there to help fix it. And I think that from the progressive side, they see that he's not really solving the problems that he says he's for. And I had my own experiences with Pete, obviously, but he has been throughout this entire process, a big supporter - he basically chose the Monitor we ended up with. I wanted a different Monitor. He got 5 members of the City Council to vote for Merrick Bobb - this is the Monitor who brought us this software system, which everybody says costs millions of dollars, and it's completely ineffective, but we have to keep using it - it's useless. In fact, when he proposed that and I objected to it - and Pete supported it in front of the judge. And helped bring it - that was in the monitoring plan. That software - people don't know this - that software was not in the Consent Decree. That software was brought up by the Monitor, put into a monitoring plan, objected to, but Pete said, "No, that's my monitor, and that's his plan and we have to support it." So Pete needs to take responsibility for that waste of money too.  He delayed, for years, the adoption of the accountability legislation, because he had to put his hand in to deal with the Community Police Commission's recommendations. And he never had good relationships with the Community Police Commission.  And here - I'll share news with you that probably no one knows 'cause I don't know that I've ever shared it before. Breaking news. When we mediated - when I mediated the Consent Decree with the Office of Civil Rights, the mediator kept two people out of the mediation. Nobody had to ask her, she just chose to do it. There were two people not allowed in that mediation. One was Jenny Durkan. The other was Pete Holmes.  Crystal Fincher: [00:32:26] Oh what! Okay - Mike McGinn: [00:32:28] Yes. Yes! He signed the agreement, but he did not negotiate the agreement. And it was really interesting because the mediator - I had visited in DC, I'd met with the head of the Office of Civil Rights, Tom Perez. I had to go to DC and meet with him to try to get the negotiations on track because at that time, Jenny Durkan was refusing to negotiate with us. Well -  Crystal Fincher: [00:32:55] As the US attorney at the time.  Mike McGinn: [00:32:56] As the US attorney at the time, while simultaneously sending letters saying that we weren't agreeing to things fast enough. But there wasn't a real give and take. There wasn't a real dialogue about how to settle the case and how to come up with a good productive Consent Decree. So I went to DC, met with Tom Perez, we agreed to re-open negotiations with their office taking more leadership in it. And we ended up with a mediator. The mediator came and visited me and said, "Look, here's the problem. We need the principals in the room. We're going to get the chief litigator from the Office of Civil Rights and you - both need to be in the mediation so that we have the people with the authority to make a deal."  And I said, "Okay, that makes sense. I understand that." I was a lawyer in private practice. And then I said, "What about - hold it, what about Pete Holmes?"  And she said, "Nope, Pete Holmes is not invited. And by the way, neither is Jenny Durkan." So the mediator, from her own decision-making, had already decided how it was going to run. And we had someone from the City Attorney's office there. The mediator would talk to Pete periodically to keep him updated, but the very clear intent was that we needed to keep them - both of them - a little bit away from the negotiation so it could have a chance of success. The two of them were, just honestly, just politicizing the hell out of it at the time. My opinion. And so -  Crystal Fincher: [00:34:21] I agree.  Mike McGinn: [00:34:22] Yeah, no - it was a really challenging environment and we managed to hold a mediation without the leaks to the press about what was being discussed on a daily basis. I'm sure the press would have loved more information about what was going on on a daily basis, but it provided the type of environment in which we could come up with an agreement that everyone could sign. As soon as the agreement was signed, next step was the discussion about who the Monitor would be - critically important decision. And that was the point at which Pete insisted on Merrick Bobb, and did everything in his power to block the people I would have supported, and to get the Council to line up behind Merrick Bobb. I ultimately would have to give way, and we ended up with Merrick Bobb - and Merrick Bobb didn't get along with the Police Commission, wasted money on the software, said everything was going great and it wasn't. And Pete was backing him the whole time. So Pete - you had 12 years to do police reform, maybe it's time to give somebody else a shot. Crystal Fincher: [00:35:22] Well, I think a lot of certainly insiders, at this point as it looks, and the regular public is going to have an opportunity to hear the conversation and to hear that maybe it's time for another choice. So I certainly appreciate all of the background. See, the wonderful thing about having you on is that you come with receipts from way back when, and there certainly is a lot that I remember from, certainly, working with you at the time. But you just have all of the detail and all of the intricacies from what happened.  Mike McGinn: [00:35:57] A lot of years ago, now. The years are adding up, Crystal.  Crystal Fincher: [00:36:00] Well, the years are definitely adding up, but I appreciate the context, and the time, and just being able to go back. Because also - it is so - like now, having a progressive Council to people is normal. It so was not this. It so was - Tim Burgess and Bruce Harrell and Richard Conlin and it was a conservative Council who was mad - who was salty on a daily basis, with the support of the Seattle Times on a daily basis - at this outsider, loony, progressive, McSchwinn mayor. Was coming in and trying to do all these crazy things like trying to do Road Diets, and things that now have been - that are viewed as normal and not controversial. But at the time, when I tell you that, like the whole War on Cars discourse that started for you and during you, that was - it was hyperbolic. It was just - it was extreme. So we're at a very different place today than we were then, but we still have people who were intimately involved and aligned with that conservative Council, like Jenny Durkan, who were very instrumental in setting things up to land exactly where they are right now - which is frustrating for some of us looking at like - this was predictable, that this wasn't the progressive champion that a lot of people thought when they were running. But of course we have the benefit of doing stuff like this for a living and having the time to know when to dive into this. And a lot of people just don't have access to that information.  Mike McGinn: [00:37:43] Well, it's really, and this is a really a good example of that. Like the way in which police reform can be politicized and was politicized. I mentioned the selection of the Monitor. I remember Bruce Harrell like, "Mayor McGinn is anti-police reform because he won't support Merrick Bobb." We had three candidates we supported, that we submitted to the judge, for a monitor. We - I signed a - negotiated a Consent Decree that called for a Monitor, but we were in this place where it was very easy to say who was for and against reform at the time.  And that process of reform - it's so fascinating to watch now a decade later, right? Almost 10 years later - to see that we now have this bizarre situation really where the Council doesn't have authority to change the police budget because the judge wants something different. They don't have the authority to get rid of a software program that doesn't work. Where the Community Police Commission - they warned the Council not to vote for the police contract, and they did vote for the police contract that wiped out the accountability procedures. And all of that was being overseen by the judge. Like the judge is saying, "Who gets to decide what the accountability procedures are? It's me, I'm the judge."  So what started as an attempt to engage the community in a dialogue with the City and the police department about what reform looks like - with the belief that it should be homegrown because it's more likely - let's listen to community - has now turned into this very, very top-down thing, being run by a judge, in which so much of the local control has disappeared. And who's the one person who could go into court on behalf of the City and say to the judge, "No, the Consent Decree called for the Community Police Commission to have power. Not for the judge to have all the power, right? It called for the City Council to be able to pass accountability reforms without having to check with the judge." That is what the - that is basically what the decree provided. But you need a City Attorney who would have the guts to actually go into a federal judge and say, "You don't have all the authority in this instance." And so since there was never any pushback on the judge - now the ability of the community as a whole to influence police reform has been taken away and resides in the judge. And there's really only one place that - there's only one person under the City Charter who had the authority to go in on behalf of the City and say, "Do something different." And that was Pete Holmes. And he never was willing to challenge the Monitor, never willing to challenge the judge, never willing to stand up for the community in that way. So Pete, you've been at this - I go back to - been in there 12 years, said he's necessary to police reform. He has to take some accountability for how he's not gotten it done overall. Crystal Fincher: [00:40:49] And the point that you're making now is a point that he couldn't make enough, 10 years ago, while challenging you with his authority that he was claiming under the Charter - for the Monitor, for taking a different stance than you were in the negotiation. And at that time saying, "Well, you know, it is my duty and responsibility. I have this ability, I'm an independently elected official. I am not just simply operating at the will of the mayor. I am my own entity, and I can and should." So he is claiming this authority, and at that time to challenge you with the support of the conservative Council, and that's why it was so striking to me and I commented a number of times during this past year. During the protests, seeing everything that SPD was doing, all of these challenges that we're having with the judge, all of the challenges that we're having in who can order what between Durkan and the police chief and that, the subpoena-ing of media records and video on behalf of the police. I am just sitting here going - how is Pete Holmes standing silent? This is consent to this - because he made a point of telling everyone he had the power to challenge things like that a decade ago. And now he's just quiet as a little mouse and escaping the accountability that is - that Jenny Durkan was encountering, that the Council, that the police chief - everyone was under the microscope, except Pete Holmes, just quiet in the corner over here. And it's like, if there was one person who could change this, it is Pete Holmes. Just a little frustrating. But, you know, we've talked about that before.  Mike McGinn: [00:42:37] Well, and it is - we have talked about that before - and yeah, something like subpoena-ing records of the media. Like how did that become City policy and how could Pete go and defend that as an action, as if SPD was not a part of the City? And so -  Crystal Fincher: [00:42:53] Yeah. As if the media is just an investigative arm of SPD that they can use at their will - it doesn't work. Democracy doesn't work that way, the City Charter doesn't work that - like, that's not how things work.  Mike McGinn: [00:43:07] And, you know, I think the same issue, honestly, can be raised with respect to homelessness. Now, I'm not saying a City Attorney can solve homelessness alone. It's something that will take the executive branch, the legislative branch, the judicial branch - a lot of the issues for homeless people have to do with dealing with compliance with the laws about being outside, and people ending up being prosecuted, and ending up in Municipal Court. So I don't want to say that Pete can solve homelessness, but a City Attorney is at a really unique and central position on the homelessness issue, because they are standing - 'cause they are in relationship to the City Council, the mayor, the judicial system, and the police department, specifically in a very unique way. And interacting also with the County Prosecutor as well. And to me, it's just noticeable that in 12 years of being at that central point, we really haven't seen - what's the leadership to solving homelessness. He has certainly leaned in on specific things - like I will not prosecute this, or I'll change the penalty for that - and those are oftentimes the right direction to go. But in terms of demonstrating some type of leadership in that space and helping us solve the problems, it's just like you were saying with the other issues - he doesn't want to put himself into that position of being associated with the homeless response. And it's just really hard to do that if you're not going to - it's really hard to have a homelessness response when somebody in that position isn't going to be a really strong collaborator in the solutions.  Crystal Fincher: [00:45:03] Yeah, I agree. I appreciate the time that you've spent with us today. This is probably the longest episode that we've ever had. But like this is - just for people listening - a lot of times there's a conversation before the show, there's a conversation after the show. So this just captures more of some of the types of conversations we have on the sides. And we just decided to keep, to keep rolling.  Mike McGinn: [00:45:28] Just kept rolling, we just kept going. We couldn't help ourselves, Crystal.  Crystal Fincher: [00:45:31] Couldn't help it. And you provide just so much valuable insight and context, so I appreciate it. Well, thanks for taking this time with us today.  Mike McGinn: [00:45:41] Anytime.  Crystal Fincher: [00:45:41] So I appreciate and thank you for listening to Hacks & Wonks on KVRU 105.7 FM this Friday, June 11th, 2021. Our chief audio engineer at KVRU is Maurice Jones Jr. The producer of Hacks & Wonks is Lisl Stadler. And our insightful co-host today was activist, former Seattle mayor Mike McGinn. You can find Mike on Twitter - it's a fire Twitter feed, by the way - @MayorMcGinn. You can find me on Twitter @finchfrii, spelled F-I-N-C-H-F-R-I-I. And now you can follow Hacks & Wonks on iTunes, Spotify, or wherever else you get your podcasts, just type "Hacks & Wonks" into the search bar, be sure to subscribe to get full versions of our Friday almost-live shows and our midweek show delivered to your podcast feed. You can also get a full transcript of this episode and links to the resources referenced in the show at officialhacksandwonks.com and in the podcast episode notes. Thanks for tuning in. Talk to you next time.

Today Crystal is joined by Nikkita Oliver: Seattle activist, community organizer, lawyer, educator, and now candidate for Seattle City Council, Position 9. They get in to the transformative change needed to our systems of public health, public safety, and housing, how mutual aid is being incorporated into Nikkita's campaign, and the virtues and challenges of being an outsider in our political system. As always, a full text transcript of the show is available below and at officialhacksandwonks.com. Find the host, Crystal Fincher on Twitter at @finchfrii and find today's guest, Nikkita Oliver, at @Nikkita4Nine. More info is available at officialhacksandwonks.com.   Resources “Nikkita Oliver Focuses on Mutual Aid, Community in Campaign for City Council” by Chamidae Ford: https://southseattleemerald.com/2021/03/20/q-a-nikkita-oliver-focuses-on-mutual-aid-community-in-campaign-for-city-council/  “Nikkita Oliver's Vision for Public Safety Goes Way Beyond Defunding the Police” by Nathalie Graham: https://www.thestranger.com/slog/2021/04/20/56698867/nikkita-olivers-vision-for-public-safety-goes-way-beyond-defunding-the-police  “King County's new youth jail and the false promise of ‘zero youth detention'” by Nikkita Oliver: https://crosscut.com/2020/02/king-countys-new-youth-jail-and-false-promise-zero-youth-detention  “Seattle City Counsil passes ‘JumpStart' tax on high salaries paid by big business” by Daniel Beekman: https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/politics/seattle-city-council-passes-new-jumpstart-tax-on-high-salaries-paid-by-big-businesses/  “New laws aim to keep people from losing their homes in Washington” by Melissa Santos: https://crosscut.com/politics/2021/05/new-laws-aim-keep-people-losing-their-homes-washington  “Encampment Sweeps Take Away Homless People's Most Important Belongings” by Rick Paulas: https://www.vice.com/en/article/v74pay/encampment-sweeps-take-away-homeless-peoples-most-important-belongings  “Timeline of Seattle Police Accountability” from the ACLU of Washington: https://www.aclu-wa.org/pages/timeline-seattle-police-accountability  “Nearly 200 cops with credibility issues still working in Washington state” by Melissa Santos: https://crosscut.com/news/2021/04/nearly-200-cops-credibility-issues-still-working-washington-state  Learn more about Creative Justice at https://www.creativejusticenw.org/    Transcript

Today Crystal is joined by the legend that is Monisha Harrell to talk about public safety and policing bills in the state legislature, Bruce Harrell's run for office, and mainstream Seattle politics finally realizing that there is more than one Black leader in Seattle. As always, a full text transcript of the show is available below and at officialhacksandwonks.com. Find the host, Crystal Fincher on Twitter at @finchfrii and find today's guest, Monisha Harrell, at @RuleSeven. More info is available at officialhacksandwonks.com.   Resources Learn more about the passage of Initiative 940 last fall here: https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/politics/initiative-940-modifying-law-regulating-police-use-of-deadly-force-holds-strong-lead-in-tuesdays-returns/  Read about how previously fired cops end up back on the force here: https://crosscut.com/news/2021/04/how-fired-cops-win-their-jobs-back-arbitration  Read the recent Crosscut in-depth report on cops with credibility issues still working in Washington State (by friend of the show and previous guest, Melissa Santos): https://crosscut.com/news/2021/04/nearly-200-cops-credibility-issues-still-working-washington-state  Learn more about the bills discussed on the show today here: https://southseattleemerald.com/2021/03/12/ground-breaking-police-accountability-bills-pass-the-house-await-senate-consideration/  Follow all police accountability bills before the legislature this year here: https://www.seattle.gov/community-police-commission/current-issues/state-legislative-agenda/bill-tracker    Transcript Crystal Fincher: [00:00:00] Welcome to Hacks & Wonks. I'm your host, Crystal Fincher. On this show, we talk to political hacks and policy wonks to gather insight into local politics and policy through the lens of those doing the work and provide behind the scenes perspectives on politics in our state. Full transcripts and resources referenced in the show are always available at officialhacksandwonks.com and in our episode notes.  We are thrilled today to be joined by Monisha Harrell. Thank you for joining us, Monisha. Well, I just wanted to take some time to actually read your full bio, which I'm indulging myself in doing. Because a lot of times we hear about people - we see you in one capacity or another capacity. Lots of people know you're the Board Chair for Equal Rights Washington, you've done work around politics and around legislation and policing, but they don't know the full story. And I just enjoy, especially for women and people of color, just to really understand what you've done and what you've been involved in. So let me tell you who Monisha Harrell is. She's a Seattle native, Board Chair for Equal Rights Washington, and she chairs the National LGBTQ Task Force Action Fund. She served as a fellow for Lifelong AIDS Alliance, co-chair of the Capitol Hill LGBTQ Public Safety Task Force. She's an appointee of the City of Seattle's 2017 search committee for a new director of police accountability and co-chair for the De-escalate Washington Campaign Committee, requiring deescalation training for all law enforcement officers in the state in 2018. The Stranger named Monisha one of the smartest people in Seattle politics - I concur - in 2013. And she was most recently honored as the Greater Seattle Business Association's Community Leader of the Year for 2018. As chair of Equal Rights Washington, Monisha helped lead the work to ban conversion therapy for minors in Washington state, pass an updated uniform parentage act to support LGBTQ families, and banned trans panic and gay panic as legal defenses for violence against the LGBTQ community - still such a critical issue. Harrell was recently appointed in July 2020 by Governor Inslee to serve on a task force to provide recommendations for legislation on independent investigations involving police use of force, and recently completed work as a member of the Washington State Attorney General Bob Ferguson's Hate Crime Advisory Working Group. In 2019, Monisha participated in a leadership exchange program with the American Council of Young Political Leaders, supporting LGBTQ community advancement in both Thailand and Malaysia. Monisha owns and operates a small marketing firm, Rule Seven, focused on offering community-driven outreach and engagement. She has an undergraduate degree from Columbia University and an MBA from the University of Washington Foster School of Business. In 2017, she was named the University of Washington Consulting and Business Development Center's Alumni of the Year.  Man, Monisha. You - that's Monisha, and I have admired Monisha and watched her just do her thing and impact policy and politics and life for a lot of people - we were just talking, for a decade plus now. And just seriously, one of the smartest people in Washington politics - in politics period. If you want to figure out a successful path for whatever you want to do, Monisha can make that happen, so I am just thrilled to have you on the show today. Monisha Harrell: [00:04:10] Thanks so much, Crystal. It's hard to believe it's been a decade of working together. It's amazing because one, I don't feel that old, but I learned so much from your leadership in those early phases, particularly of politics and really learning how to navigate political circles, particularly as a young Black woman. It's been a great decade together and looking forward to many, many more decades ahead for us. Crystal Fincher: [00:04:48] Absolutely. I mean, you've gone global with your influence and advocacy, so I'm just watching and cheerleading from the sidelines over here. But what I wanted to talk about - something you're involved in - in a variety of ways and have been, are the policing bills going through the legislature right now, the entire conversation about what we need to do and how we need to change that. I guess starting off, and just a recap or overview in what is happening in Olympia right now? There was lots of fanfare going into the session in response to demands from community that we finally take action to stop some of the abuses and the violence that we have seen from police, and just the absolute lack of accountability in so many spaces. What is on the table to address that right now? Monisha Harrell: [00:05:48] Yeah, absolutely. I'll start back with Initiative 940, De-Escalate Washington. That work was really - it was really interesting because there wasn't a lot of political will around it back when that work was beginning in 2016 and 2017. There were a lot of people in positions of power who really believed that the work around police accountability was being kind of blown out of proportion. Communities of color, particularly Black communities, have often been the canaries in the coal mine when it comes to, "No, please listen to us, this is important, and this is serious." And the great thing about the work with De-Escalate Washington was it hearkened back to "The Four Amigos", right? Communities from different segments of the state coming together and saying, "We're going to use our collective power in order to create the change that we know we need to see." And people said, "If you pass Initiative 940, you'll have people leaving policing in droves. You'll never have enough police to be able to fill all the spots." And here's what happened. We knew the public was with us. The public wanted reform and the people spoke, and the people spoke loudly. Halls of power weren't ready to address policing issues that our communities were.  Fast forward to last summer, to George Floyd. And if we had voted on De-Escalate Washington last summer, the numbers would have even been higher. But we knew that that initiative was just the beginning. We knew that there is no one single piece of legislation - to be candid, there's not 10 pieces of legislation - that are going to solve the problems that we need to solve around police accountability. And so, 940 was a start. And the tailwinds of last year gave us the political power to be able to go back to legislators who were like, "Our districts are basically up in arms. What do we do?" And then we had their ears - "Okay. We've been trying to tell you what to do. But now that you're saying, what do we do? Here's the package." And that's where we ended up this year. I'd love to talk just a little bit about some of the package that was offered and some of what's moving forward. Crystal Fincher: [00:08:28] Yeah. What is in that package? I mean certainly, we did see protests and just people sick and tired of seeing over and over again, violence against - disproportionately - people of color. But certainly dramatically impacting the disabled community - I mean, communities far and wide, this is affecting all of us. And then no accountability afterwards. It just feels like this lawless attack on community, where we are actually powerless. If someone who's not wearing a badge commits a crime - that should never have happened, but when it does, there is accountability. But if you have a badge, it's just completely different. How is that being addressed with legislation? Monisha Harrell: [00:09:20] The interesting thing that we learned, and I'll say it over and over again, there's no one piece of legislation that's perfect and that will fix everything. One of the things we learned from Initiative 940 was - we passed a law that required de-escalation training for all law enforcement officers in Washington state, that required an independent investigation for lethal use of force incidents by law enforcement. And what we found is that - we expected, naively, officers of the law to follow the law. But without teeth, Initiative 940 was ineffective. It was legally put in place, but we found that there were so many police departments and law enforcement agencies that weren't following it. And so, that's not a mistake that will repeat again. That is something that we learned from that. And so, this year's police accountability legislation shows, actually, that we've learned and we're beginning to put teeth in some of what is being passed as legal. I'll kind of start with Senate bill 5051, sponsored by Senator Jamie Pedersen. That bill has a pathway for de-certification for law enforcement officers that have histories of misconduct. Prior to this bill, and as it stands right now - we haven't passed it yet - but prior to, if you have an officer that's got a history of misconduct in one department, well they basically can just say, "Well I'm about to get in trouble for all this stuff over here, let me go 10 miles down the road to that police department." And then they get a whole clean slate. The investigation at the previous department - it ends - and over at this new department, they have a brand new record and they're a shiny new officer again. And what we've found is that, it's those officers - these incidents like George Floyd, they don't just happen. Derek Chauvin, he had a record of misconduct. If in Minnesota, they had a way to begin to de-certify officers that have records and histories of misconduct, he wouldn't have even been on the job that day. So we as Washington State, we've taken that responsibility to say, "No, you can't just switch departments and get a clean record. We're actually going to ensure that your history follows your career. And if you're not deserving of a badge and gun, a state sanctioned badge and gun, then you shouldn't have a state sanctioned badge and gun." That's the gist around Senate bill 5051. It looks that it will be passing this year. It's cleared both the Senate, and then it's cleared the House committee. It's just ready to come to the Floor for a vote. Crystal Fincher: [00:12:20] That's really interesting, and on that issue, certainly, it is a big problem where officers can just department hop, to escape their past. And they do successfully escape them. Monisha Harrell: [00:12:35] Look at Ian Birk, right? Everybody said that the John T. Williams shooting was unjustified, and what did he do? He left Seattle and he went to Shoreline. So again, 10 miles north, and he's got a whole new career. Crystal Fincher: [00:12:50] Yeah. It's a big problem. It looks like that's going to pass. Is there anything else that looks like it's also going to pass? Monisha Harrell: [00:12:58] We surprisingly got a really sturdy slate this year - not that there's not more to do - but another one and I'll relate it again back to the Chauvin case and George Floyd's death. We have Senate bill 5066, which is duty to report and duty to intervene. What that bill basically says is - if you are an officer and you see another officer using excessive use of force, you now have a duty, a responsibility - a legal responsibility - to intervene in that excessive use of force in order to save that person's life. So unlike in the case of George Floyd, where you saw officers standing by, it would now be illegal for them to just stand by and watch another human being be murdered, when they have the power to do something about it. That originated in the Senate and is ready to come to the House. Another one passed both chambers yesterday - it passed the Senate last night, which was House bill 1054, which is law enforcement tactics bill. And again, I'll go back to the George Floyd case just because it's such a good example of all of the things that can go wrong and that have gone wrong. But in House bill 1054, it will ban choke holds and neck restraints, as well as a few other police tactics - no-knock warrants, in the case of Breonna Taylor. It would ban those police tactics for all law enforcement officers in Washington State. These are good practices. These are good policies. They're not theoretical, because we can point to the real life cases of where, with this in place, we would have saved lives. Crystal Fincher: [00:14:56] It certainly appears that those bills do have legs and that they are an improvement over current policy. I don't think that there's many people who are earnestly trying to address this issue, who don't think those are improvements over good policy. It is - just looking at the conversation and where we are now - is so much different than where we were 5 years ago, 10 years ago. And even just in the public conversations around the idea of reform, they're like, "Okay, we're actually over reform. It's time to transform and to reconfigure, to fundamentally revisit how we address the structure and function of public safety and policing. Down to examining - why do we need an armed response to the wide variety - to everything, really, right now - and how do we change that? And do we need police to respond, period? And models of community-based alternatives to an armed police response or a police response, period. And people saying, "We don't have the time to keep tinkering around the edges and for incremental change in the public safety process, because people continue to die." Even when it's not the worst case scenario with dying, people are having their civil rights violated, their lives turned upside down. Even if they're unjustly arrested because they were over policed and now they're saddled with legal bills and missing work, just to get out of something that they never should have gotten into. Looking on the front end - Monisha Harrell: [00:16:50] Yeah. Crystal Fincher: [00:16:50] Can that be addressed in the legislature? How do you see that? How do you address that? Monisha Harrell: [00:16:56] There are so many people in this fight, and in this battle, right? I'm one person, one type of person. I always say when you're a hammer, every problem looks like a nail. I'm a policy person, so I'm dealing with it from a policy perspective because that's where my expertise is. I am grateful, grateful, grateful for the folks who, maybe they're not the policy person, but they put the boots to the ground and they protest. They give us the wings to be able to do this policy work, right? I have had many great and wonderful conversations with Nikkita Oliver, and we have a different approach to how we show love within community and how we do this work. You need all types. You need all types of leadership to be able to step up and step into the places where they provide expertise to do it. We don't talk enough about things like, do we need an armed response? The answer is no, we don't always need an armed response. In fact, there's probably very few times where you actually need an armed response to a certain situation, particularly because, and this is where Nikkita and I will probably agree, a lot of times 911 is called after the incident. Crystal Fincher: [00:18:22] Mm-hmm [affirmative]. Monisha Harrell: [00:18:22] So you don't need an armed response when the incident has passed. Now we have different approaches for how to get there. But I think what we're working for, I think ultimately the vision of what we're working for in community, is very similar, right? We need less policing, right? We need more resources so that there's a requirement for less policing. We need more money into education and social services, so that we can spend less on what is called criminal justice. I don't think anybody is disagreeing with all of those things. We don't want to spend our money punitively. We want to be able to pool our resources into what lifts us up, not what holds us down. What people may think are very different people - we're actually not that different. We're just working from different angles. We have different perspectives and we have different strengths. You need all of those different strengths to be able to come to the table, to be a part of the conversation, to figure out where do we go and how do we get there, right? What I'll also say is - you made me think of it with the choke holds - it's not just that they cause death. We're talking about the scars that they leave on communities. If you cut off somebody's oxygen for a minute, you may not leave them without life, but you leave them without brain. Crystal Fincher: [00:20:04] Mm-hmm [affirmative]. Monisha Harrell: [00:20:07] Seconds without oxygen is brain death. So maybe they are still walking of this earth and their body is living, but you've left them with mental impairment, permanent lifetime mental impairment. That's what we're talking about, right? There are better solutions and we have to be willing. We have to be willing to work towards those better solutions. Crystal Fincher: [00:20:32] We do. And I appreciate, just you addressing that in your response and talking about - people have different expertise and are in different lanes. And that we need all of those lanes. We need all of those lanes pushing, in order to actually get change accomplished. Pushing in just one of those is not sufficient. I think we have seen, in a variety of situations - that okay, if people are only paying attention in the policy sphere with no connection to community, with no mandate from folks in the community and in the streets - that that leaves people in a position where they don't have power on the inside. And if we're only talking about what's happening in terms of protest and community engagement, then turning that into policy or impacting the institutions that really, whether we choose to or not, we have to engage with in our daily lives - that there is no change made there. And that things stay as they are, and the status quo is unacceptable. So it really does take pushing by people in politics and policy, and community organizations engaging in meetings and on the street - to get it all done. And there are so many conversations about, "Well, which way is better? Either or. Do we do this or do we do that?" And my response to that is always, "It takes all of it." We make a change when we are pushing in all of our different lanes to get that accomplished. I appreciate your lane, it's necessary. I appreciate the lane of people who are in the streets and holding power accountable that way, because that is a lever of accountability and necessary. It just takes all of it. We can't just say - we can't do part of it. It's unfortunate that people who are being harmed have been the ones who've had to mount up and lead in fixing the issue. That should not be the case, but unfortunately, that is the situation that we're in right now. Monisha Harrell: [00:23:05] Absolutely. It's always been an and. It's always been an and. You need Rosa Parks and Medgar Evers. You need Malcolm X and Dr. Martin Luther King. You need James Baldwin and Lorraine Hansberry. You need and, and a call-out, right? And we need our allies. Sometimes you're going to be the leader, and sometimes you're going to be an ally - and if you see a situation, the best way to get this work done is to join in community with others, where sometimes you're going to be the leader and sometimes you're going to be an ally, but you have to add your strength in order to change these systems. Because these systems - power will never concede itself, we know that. We hear that over and over again. Power won't concede itself, but if we work together, we can do anything. Crystal Fincher: [00:23:55] Absolutely, and I'm glad you brought that up because that is actually one of the things that I personally appreciate most about you - is that you're always willing to be an ally. People see when you're out in front, but I have been able to see several opportunities across several policy spheres, and in community, in organizing, supporting, where you've just been like, "Hey. However I can help, however I can support. I know how to do this and the other. I can make a connection." You have always offered yourself as a resource and as an ally in supporting. I know that has been instrumental in so many things happening in so many different areas. Just the amount of policy that you have been involved in across the sphere - in campaigns, elections, ballot initiatives - the list is long that people know about, but where you have been really supportive and instrumental in your knowledge has been helpful, that list is much more broad. Monisha Harrell: [00:25:02] I've had so many people invest in me, right? It's a requirement. It's a requirement to be able to give back, because - I never know what the story is that people think of me or see of me, but I was born to two teenage parents. My mom was still in high school - I'm in the 1976 Garfield yearbook in the little nursery that they had there, right? And yet, I have still had people who have invested so much in me, who have given so much of themselves, so much of their time, their energy, their wisdom, and I feel the responsibility to pay that forward. I really do feel like, despite the hard times, I have been incredibly fortunate. The only way for me to show that, my love language, is paying that forward to other folks. Crystal Fincher: [00:26:03] Well I've been a beneficiary of that, I appreciate it. I know many others who appreciate it. And yeah, I'm just thankful.  Now, I do have to ask you about your uncle. I don't know if people know your last name is Harrell. You share a last name with Bruce Harrell, who is a former Seattle City councilman. He was briefly the mayor. Monisha Harrell: [00:26:36] Five days. Crystal Fincher: [00:26:36] Five days. And now he is running, for the second time actually, running to be Mayor of Seattle. And he has caught my attention. Monisha Harrell: [00:26:48] Yeah. Crystal Fincher: [00:26:49] Principally for a couple of statements that he's made on this subject of policing. One, when he - I think it was when he was announcing and he was talking about the subject of policing - and said that the first thing he's going to do, is have officers watch the video of George Floyd and sign a pledge saying that that's unacceptable. And then last week, few days ago - time is running into itself for me. But within the past week, said another statement, "Hey, if I'm mayor and we go a week without having a shooting or a murder of a Black person, we're going to go to the precincts and high five the officers." Monisha Harrell: [00:27:43] Yeah. So here's what I'm going to say. He is actually quite smart and he is good for sound bites, right? He gives a sound bite that gives people something to talk about. You have to get to the bottom of - but what is he really getting at? What is he actually talking about? And what he's talking about is culture change, right? We have to have a culture change in policing, and particularly at SPD, in order to be able to effectuate real change. And it's an example of a thing that would be done, but not the only thing done. It's an example of, how do you ensure that if you're going to invest in an officer, if you're going to invest training in an officer, education into an officer, support into an officer, that you have a baseline to even start with. And so, watching the George Floyd video - it shows - can this person even admit at a baseline level that that is wrong? If they can't admit that's wrong, then any amount of education or training that we try to put into this person is going to be wasted. They're not who we spend energy on. It comes out sounding really simplistic, because it's a sound bite versus what you're actually getting at, which is not everybody is suited to be an officer. And we have to admit that. We have to admit that there are people - not everybody is suited to every job. And how do you just, at a baseline level, root out who is not suited for that job? And so you get this over simplified example. But it's actually - as an example, it shows you what kind of conversations we have to be willing to have. We have to be willing to say, "This person is not suited for this role. We are not going to expend education and resources into trying to train this person for something that they are just - we can't teach this value. If you can't see this and say that's wrong, there's no amount of sitting you behind the desk and training you, that is ever going to get you to the point where you realize that that's wrong."  I get it. It's definitely something that people talk about, but hopefully they also kind of get to the deeper issue around that, which is we have to determine who has the basis, who has the heart, to do public service and public safety, be a servant leader in that way. And who just, it's not a job that's a fit for you. It's not going to be a job that's going to be a fit for you. And we need to move you on. Crystal Fincher: [00:30:38] I appreciate your perspective and context around that. That certainly is a conversation worth having, and one I think that we should. I'm looking forward to the full, robust debate about policing in Seattle overall, from all of the candidates and evaluating who is best suited, in terms of the ability to lead, and enacting the policies we need with a sense of urgency that it requires. I'm looking forward to that continuing throughout the place. And what else I appreciate about this, is that we have a number of people of color running. We have more than one Black person in the race. We have some of everybody. I've said this before and I think is useful - we aren't all the same. We are not a monolith. We have different opinions and different approaches and we have the opportunity... Monisha Harrell: [00:31:34] Thank God people are realizing that, right? Crystal Fincher: [00:31:36] Right. Monisha Harrell: [00:31:36] Thank God we don't have to all be the same person anymore. Crystal Fincher: [00:31:40] Yes. For those candidates whose perspectives I find myself aligned with and others where I don't, I do think that it is useful for the wider community to see a range of opinions and perspectives addressed, because that's absolutely true and valid. We know that. We've known that, but sometimes the wider community has a harder time engaging. I feel like it's been in the past year or two, where they stopped referring to people just as "Black leaders." Monisha Harrell: [00:32:19] Right. Crystal Fincher: [00:32:20] That's okay, we don't elect Black leaders. For other people, they use their title. For this person, it's "Black leader." Is there anything else to the story? Or they'll just be like, "activist." Monisha Harrell: [00:32:33] It's always funny, because I was always like, "When did we vote? When did we ..." Crystal Fincher: [00:32:35] Right. Monisha Harrell: [00:32:36] And that - to be candid, that's annoyed me, beginning from the '80s. When I started kind of thinking about it, they would say "Black leader" and then they would have somebody talking on the news and I thought, "Well, who elected them to speak for all of us?" I appreciate the fact that there's more nuance these days. I have to give some credit to social media for actually allowing us to have more of a voice, because if we were relying on mainstream media, we'd still have just one Black leader. I'm grateful that we get to have a few at this juncture. I get to be on this program with one of our Black leaders, so I'm happy that we get a full ... Look, this is radio, so y'all can... Crystal Fincher: [00:33:24] I am not claiming that title, just to be clear - I'm a political consultant with a podcast. That's it. Monisha Harrell: [00:33:30] Look, I want people to understand - Crystal and I have a deep, deep respect for each other, but could not be more different. Crystal is on this radio show looking fabulous right now, and I'm sitting here in some Adidas sweatpants. So I just want you all to know that there is many, many ways to be, and we deserve the humanity to be able to be all of those things and the entire robustness of how that shows up. Crystal Fincher: [00:33:57] Oh my goodness. Okay. Yes, all of these things.  Okay. We're in podcast only time and not in the airtime on the radio. Let's just be real - I'm here. I just got into wigs, y'all. They're so simple and easy and wonderful. Look! I threw on this wig. I'm looking at Monisha on this online chat - weird seeing each other, just we're not putting out the video on the podcast - but I mean, look, it's just a wig. It's just a wig and I have my other wig that you saw that I was wearing yesterday in the meeting that we were in about something else. It's totally - it's a different color. It's a different length, but they all take about two minutes to put on... Monisha Harrell: [00:34:43] I'm just saying ... Crystal Fincher: [00:34:44] ... and look like I actually did something. Monisha Harrell: [00:34:45] ... you look ready to go out. And I look ready to go take a nap. Crystal Fincher: [00:34:49] And what you see, is just the very top. Look, you don't see the below the screen situation happening right now. It's not consistent, I'll just tell you that. It is not consistent with what this appears to be. And even this is optimized for two minutes. Just in the interest of realness, I think you probably spent more time getting ready and prepared than I did today. I'm fairly positive about that. Monisha Harrell: [00:35:19] Not in this Zoom world. In this Zoom world, I only gotta dress from the shoulders up. Crystal Fincher: [00:35:24] That's the situation. And that's probably more information than you bargained for, podcast listeners, but there you go. That's real. This is where we're at.  Well, I appreciate you taking the time to join us and talk to us today. I appreciate you, Monisha, period. I appreciate you addressing your uncle's comments and providing some more context and the basis for a useful and necessary conversation. Just thank you. Monisha Harrell: [00:35:56] Yeah and I appreciate being here. It's always a pleasure to talk to you, Crystal. And I listen to your show, I'm a big fan. I like Hacks and Wonks, and I hope more people are listening, because they will learn as much about politics from you as I have learned from you. So it's a great opportunity. Crystal Fincher: [00:36:18] You're too kind and I appreciate it, but thank you everyone and enjoy your day. Thank you for listening to Hacks and Wonks. Our chief audio engineer at KVRU is Maurice Jones Jr. The producer of Hacks and Wonks is Lisl Stadler. You can find me on Twitter @finchfrii, spelled F-I-N-C-H-F-R-I-I. And now you can follow Hacks and Wonks on iTunes, Spotify, or wherever else you get your podcasts. Just type in "Hacks and Wonks" into the search bar. Be sure to subscribe to get our Friday almost live shows and our mid-week show, delivered to your podcast feed. You can also get a full text transcript of this episode and links to the resources referenced during the show at officialhacksandwonks.com and in the podcast episode notes.  Thanks for tuning in. Talk to you next time.

Seattle police arrested a suspected carjacker Thursday night, after he was alleged to have driven the stolen vehicle through a crowd of protesters.Roughly 100 people gathered around 6 p.m. Thursday at Cal Anderson Park, as part of a call to defund the Seattle Police Department and “invest in Black communities.” The group  — which included Seattle council candidate and local activist Nikkita Oliver — marched downtown and stopped in front of SPD’s West Precinct. While marchers were moving through the downtown core, a fight was reported near 11th and Pike.Join your host Sean Reynolds, owner of Summit Properties NW and Reynolds & Kline Appraisal as he takes a look at this developing topic.Support the show (https://buymeacoff.ee/seattlepodcast)

Today on the show co-host Michael Charles of Upper Left Strategies joins Crystal to go over news of the week, including the need to confront hate and bigotry against our Asian neighbors experienceing racist violence, why it matters when white journalists write inaccurately (and misspell the names of) women of color, the continued marginalization of political consultants of color, and new developments in the Seattle mayoral race. As always, a full text transcript of the show is available below and at officialhacksandwonks.com. Find the host, Crystal Fincher on Twitter at @finchfrii and find today's co-host, Michael Charles, at @mikeychuck. More info is available at officialhacksandwonks.com.   Articles Referenced: Read the article in which a Seattle reporter continues to misspell the name of Hamdi Mohamad here: https://www.postalley.org/2021/03/15/port-elections-changing-dynamics-for-getting-elected/ Get to know more about the Political Consultants of Color Coalition here: https://www.pccc-wa.com/press  See Crystal's tweet about a campaign worker of color not being paid for work they've done for a Seattle mayoral candidate: https://twitter.com/finchfrii/status/1372750551952150530  Read about Bruce Harrell's announcement of running for mayor, including his requirement that officers watch the video of George Floyd's death, here: https://www.theurbanist.org/2021/03/16/bruce-harrell-stakes-claim-to-center-lane-in-seattle-mayoral-announcement/  Learn more about the Washington Campaign Workers Collective here: https://www.washingtoncwc.com/    Transcript: Crystal Fincher: [00:00:00] Welcome to Hacks and Wonks. I'm your host, Crystal Fincher. On this show, we talk with policy wonks and political hacks to gather insight into local politics and policy through the lens of those doing the work with behind the scenes perspectives on politics in our state. Full transcripts, resources referenced in the show are always available at officialhacksandwonks.com and in our episode notes. Today, we're continuing our Friday almost live shows where we review the news of the week with a cohost. Welcome back to the program friend of the show and today's co-host, political consultant and managing partner of Upper Left Strategies. Michael Charles.  Michael Charles: [00:00:46] Thanks Crystal. Happy to be here again. As always. Crystal Fincher: [00:00:49] Yes. Always happy to have you here and, you know, share space with you. We have the opportunity to do that in some other spaces and always love it when you're here on the show.   So there's a lot that has been happening this week. We will certainly get into it. I just want to start, first and foremost, by acknowledging that our Asian community has literally been under attack. Under continuing attack and it's unacceptable. And as we have talked about with so many other things, we have to confront hate in all of its forms, whether it's jokes or fetishism - people are just - feel like it's fine because of model minority myths. "Model minority myth" and all of that. And all of that is racism. All of that leads to this harm and violence, and we have to call that out in public and in private. We have to confront it in order for it to stop, 'cause it's, it is just unacceptable. So I just wanted to start off and say that unequivocally.  And say that also it's not time for anyone else to do any kind of, what-about-ism to, to try and bring other issues or other nuance in this conversation. This is a time to center Asian  voices from the AAPI community.  Michael Charles: [00:02:13] Especially Asian women.  Crystal Fincher: [00:02:14] Yes. Hundred percent. And, and like, that's it. And that's, that's what we need to do. And we just need to listen and support and be an ally.  And most people have heard me, right. Or say, ally is a verb. It's about what you do.  You know, we can - Michael Charles: [00:02:32] We don't need to see pictures of you at rallies. We don't need to see, you know, none of that helps in these times.  Crystal Fincher: [00:02:40] Absolutely. So, so I just wanted to start with that.  And that this is about how we react when we are confronted with jokes and attitude, and hate and bigotry, and violence in our own spaces and our lives. With people we know and interact with, that it is our responsibility to confront it wherever we see it, including  and especially right now, stepping up for the Asian community to make sure that this is not tolerated anywhere.  So I just wanted to start off with that.  And then get to a number of things that have happened this week. I guess we can start  with an article that was written this week about  a couple of Port candidates. And do you want to talk about that a little bit, Michael?  Michael Charles: [00:03:26] I mean sure, and full disclosure, both candidates are my - I work with them through the firm and one is actually my, my wife. So I have particularly strong feelings about it, but you know, looking at it from just a, like a pure analytic perspective and thinking deeply about - like I said this to you when we talked earlier - I really, in some ways appreciated the candor because I think that there are a lot of people that feel that way. And it's kind of, you know, I thought the irony in it, I guess, was that same author writes a lot about Trump and the problems with Trump and the Republican Party. And  I just think, you know, this is that same type of white, like escapism, where they feel like they're being left behind. And I mean, the lines of "Oh, you know, even this is what the voters want now. They care more about DEI than they care about running the economy," as if the two are, for one, somehow separate. And two, to think that you can spew inaccurate information and somehow that makes you better than somebody else is. Literally the things you're decrying  in one hand, and not understanding in another how you're contributing in the same sense and to that, what we'll call it exactly what it is - white supremacy.  Crystal Fincher: [00:04:51] It is white supremacy and to be clear, this was written by David Brewster. It was  Port elections - changing dynamics for getting elected, which is just really curious. Just a title and a premise. And he basically - his premise is, "Hey, in these races that are not getting top billing, including these Port races that have  women of color running for these positions" -  who he one, it is always telling how they choose to describe candidates. Do they refer to them by their profession as they do with so many males and white males? These  women are not described by their profession, none of their qualifications,  their various expertise - they have quite a bit of expertise in several areas - are not mentioned. One is mentioned  because in reference to being  the daughter of someone else. Another one, it just mentions that she's worked on social justice issues with  Pramila Jayapal. So one, we aren't even talking about what their profession is, what their expertise is, what their  history is. None of that - always telling. And then went on to say that these races are "now run as an aspect of DEI - diversity-equity-inclusion politics, with  voters more likely to vote on youth green causes empowering minorities, than rewarding incumbents for focusing on economic issues, the Port's main business."  Michael Charles: [00:06:27] No mention that the Port is doing worse than it's ever done before right now. But you know - we won't go there.  Crystal Fincher: [00:06:35] Yes. And that all of those - you can't separate those elements out. If they all work together, if you're choosing what to buy and evaluating it based on its qualifications, and some of the requirements that you are required to consider when you purchase and you buy and you make these decisions and you  achieve these goals, include these things, then you have to make sense to include these things. These people, the white people, I have also heard talk about these things and somehow they are not coming up for criticism. And also he has made it very clear that he has not read any of the platforms. He actually made an assumption about Hamdi Mohamed, one of the candidates, and has a stance of hers wrong. And clearly made an assumption that because these were women of color, that they must only be concerned about and are only talking about DEI, which has nothing to do with the Port. And this is a bastardization of what running for  election, the quote unquote right way is. And I - Michael Charles: [00:07:40] There's also the part that Toshiko knows about  Asian port operations because you know, she's Asian.  Crystal Fincher: [00:07:47] Yeah. Oh yeah. Yeah. Trade. She's Asian. And her knowledge of Asian trade -  Michael Charles: [00:07:54] But the incumbents know about Asian trade apparently. And she doesn't, you know. So it was interesting to mention one hand that she does and then the other, she doesn't. It's just, you know, it's consistent with the inconsistency of this article. Crystal Fincher: [00:08:09] Yeah, it is a mess.It is very - he thinks he's whispering, but he's yelling.  He also  got - spelled the name of Hamdi Mohamed incorrectly  Hamdi, I mean, it's a phonetic spelling and he - Michael Charles: [00:08:25] It's literally in - it's the only thing in her logo, in case you needed to look it up. It says "Hamdi" - in case you needed to look it up.  Crystal Fincher: [00:08:37] Yeah. Yeah, it is - it is something.  But I will note he has no problem spelling the name of Peter Steinbrueck - definitely not a phonetic spelling.  You know, I challenge people who are not familiar with his name to try and spell that correctly on their first three tries. But somehow her name was too  difficult to spell right, or care to even fact check for a former reporter. So that's just that. I just wanted to start with that and just see - say we see it, we hear it, and yes, as you mentioned -we hear this is a dynamic out there. And  especially when people of color run, we know that people make assumptions about them that have nothing to do with what they say or who they are. They're more about the person and the perspective and the mindset that they're coming from. So that's this - we see it and just wanted to call it out. And we see this.  Michael Charles: [00:09:39] I will say one smart part of the piece that he did engage was that most voters do care about this now because most voters are smart in King County. And yes, that's a good thing for our voters moving forward, so I did appreciate that with a nod. Crystal Fincher: [00:09:56] He was mad about it, but did nail that dynamic and yeah, we do think that's -that's a good thing. Speaking about other things that we saw this week,  I wanted to talk a little bit about some  things that I heard. We are both  - we got together and  with a few of our other consultants of color, most of the Black consultants, started the Political Consultants of Color Coalition. We've talked about that before on the show. And a lot of it was because we were being  like just literally excluded,  despite  you know, not even, "Hey, we're - we want a shot. Like we've done that work. We've shown that we can do that work. We're winning those races where we have records as good of, or as good as, or better than the people who were working." It wasn't a matter of merit. It was  you know, policies that had the effect of excluding  consultants and staff of color. And so that was covered.  They wound up saying, "Yeah, actually that is literally what was happening. We will change it in many instances. " And that was great, but these dynamics are are just an example of where we're at in society, and that permeates all spaces, even spaces where people call themselves democratic and progressive and all of that - doesn't make people immune. So, yes. And in fact, the troublesome part is when they use that as cover to say, "No, no. I'm saying all the right things about including BIPOC communities, and centering BIPOC communities, and being inclusive and welcoming and, you know, having a diverse staff. And no, we are totally doing all of that. I'm doing all that - I care. So how dare you say that I have a blind spot or I could be doing better in an area. Or I'm being hypocritical by doing this." That is a dynamic that we've also talked about before. So, I learned -  because we do talk and talking is good and useful and helpful.  And sharing information among  staff or workers or, you know, classes of workers is, is always useful. Talk about pay, talk about salaries. Talk about conditions, talk about all of that. That only helps people  to - who are in more marginalized positions to help make that more equitable. So we - we have learned that and we do  have a continuing dialogue. And so I learned and ended up  tweeting about -  in one instance, a City of Seattle mayoral candidate  is attempting to stiff a BIPOC  consulting firm for work that they did - significant amount of work that they did, great work that they did. And is really trying hard not to pay them. That's not okay.  And then I  learned of another situation where another City of Seattle mayoral candidate  has offered  general consultants less money  than people in more junior or different roles.  And that's not okay. And, you know, you should pay people  to scale for what they do in the industry, to scale for, you know, appropriately within your own campaign. And if you can't do that, then maybe you should reevaluate whether you're ready to run, or maybe you should reevaluate how your campaign is structured. And certainly what you need to do is reevaluate all of the rhetoric that you're talking about  - equal work for equal pay, and  talking about wage theft, and talking about being fair and including  BIPOC community - just all of the talk, all of the right words, all the things that they know to say. If you are actually not doing that, don't be surprised if you wind up being called out. And so I just mentioned that - I didn't mention names. I figure that - these are still - what prompted me to mention that I knew that is one,  it is appropriate for that to be on the radar - the Political Consultants of Color Coalition, of which I am a member. And so that was one, and these issues have been lingering, have not yet been resolved. And sometimes it can be helpful to say, Hey, you should actually, you know, get this resolved. We are actively interested in making sure this gets resolved quickly. So you can take the initiative and get that done.  So people noticed,  as they do.  And the reaction to that has been very interesting in the responses  that we've heard and not heard. And one of the responses that I particularly wanted to address was -  a campaign followed up with one of the people I was talking about who recognized themselves in that tweet and it was a conversation that we are used to having as people  in spaces who are calling out behavior that is not ideal  of people who often have more power and resources. And the response to that, the appropriate response to that is, Hey, you know, I saw this mentioned, and I think this is about us. And I think this was about the situation.  We would like to, you know, resolve this. We should have handled it - we can handle this differently. You know, we want to make sure we take care of this and all this kind of stuff.  What is not appropriate, but what I know we have both experienced, Michael. And what happened in this was - making the person feel wrong for bringing their bad behavior to light. To be clear, it was me who brought the bad behavior to light.  And it was me who tweeted it publicly. And I decided  to not share names.  But they definitely knew who I was talking about. And my goal is just making sure that people get paid money that they're owed. And that people are treated how they're supposed to be.  Michael Charles: [00:16:26] Accountability, right? Like how do we provide any accountability now? Like it seems like Twitter is our - one of our only tools.  Crystal Fincher: [00:16:36] Yes. And what was conveyed to this consultant was,  Hey, we don't want you to wind up in a position where you can't end up working in your City." We all know what that means. We all have heard that and dealt with that. It's - be careful what you say. Don't cause trouble. That's only gonna make things harder for you, when really the situation is the person who is calling out bad behavior - the bad behavior isn't calling out bad behavior. It's the actual bad behavior. And maybe there was an oversight, maybe there's - there were extra considerations. And that happens. And that's why there weren't names in the tweet.  But what also happens is sometimes people just think they can get away with it and they assume that they can operate like that behind the scenes, which we've seen in several circumstances,  which is why this isn't new behavior. It's just new that this behavior is getting called out. But that it is important to bring accountability to it, because if we don't, then it just continues to happen. And to have the response be, and I don't know if - I can't say, because it was someone on behalf of the campaign and not the candidate. I can't say that the candidate felt that way, authorized that being saying, but no one should feel comfortable saying something like that. What they should feel comfortable doing is making sure people get paid and do their thing.  But not being like, you know, Hey, you should be careful what you call us out for 'cause that might not be cool.  And I'm just past the point because I have been in that situation before,  and right now I am fortunate enough to not be. And I'm in a position where if they threatened to take something, you know, my business isn't constructed like that. So, you know, if they're going to threaten to continue to not work with me then okay.  But that is where the harm is. The harm is in that reaction. We all get called in, and it is how we react to that. And man, that reaction is toxic and I hope that campaigns and people across the board do better. 'Cause this is certainly not an issue limited to current Seattle candidates. It's pretty pervasive, but man, I'm so sick and tired of seeing people mistreated and then treated as if they have done something wrong for sharing that they were mistreated. I don't like it.  Michael Charles: [00:19:28] I mean, we see it through all levels of government right now. We're talking about the Cuomo situation. It's about  when are we going to be living the values that we all say that we want to? And I think, I mean, that's what we ultimately want when we talk about accountability, right? It's to not be hypocritical, to approach  problem solving with the values that we all share and say we share. And I think, you know, it's part of the reason why you think to even do that is that you're asking people to question their own morals and values, and see where do I fall in this and are the actions I'm taking consistent with the morals and values I'm stating publicly? You know, it's  I mean, I think about the Cuomo situation and just how we have so many local politicians that deal in the same business and there's the fear of repercussions, the fear of being ostracized or not believed. I mean, I just think about how that type of situation pervades all types of when, when dealing with race in these situations, when you're dealing with anything that pushes the values and morals of a group, like you begin to get pushback. And I think that it's really cool to see us all, at least some of us, getting together as a group and beginning to say, No, you know, we're stronger when we're together. You know, on Twitter, that's part of what - when people call it, you know, the Twitterati or whatever, and, you know, they're scared they get held accountable in this cancel culture or whatnot. And, you know, it feels very similar in Seattle where people are like, Well, I don't want to get yelled at on Twitter. And it's like, well, You won't if you're not doing anything stupid, you know -  Crystal Fincher: [00:21:18] Yeah and it usually takes - like, it, it is rare where it is just simply doing something stupid. It's usually you have to double down on the stupid and not listen to people who were like, Hey, Hey, reconsider. They're like, I don't need to reconsider. You re like, you know, and they'll just, they double down on it. And, and there's a lot of people now who - we just had a conversation about, you know, activism for profit - McKesson, the Grammy awards and, and you know, who, what are we doing this all for? Is it to, is it to build our personal brands or are we actually trying to make things better for people. To have people  you know, to have less harm happen less often. To, to make the playing field simpler, and to not keep power concentrated in the hands of the few, and opportunities concentrated in the hands of the few, and money concentrated in the hands of the few. To give people a real shot to do what they're  qualified to do, to do what they want to do, to actually be judged on merit and to have opportunities not  completely eliminated because someone just isn't comfortable with you for a reason they can't pin down.  You know,it is that. And so we are all challenged in all of our spaces to say, Okay, is what I'm saying? 'Cause you know, we talk publicly, we are steering campaigns and advocacy, and it is a big deal to say we're  doing things and to be consistent with the values that you're talking about. And I've had conversations with candidates and others before - it's like, Hey, you're -you have this in your platform, or you're saying this, meanwhile, like, look at how you're paying someone right now. Or, you know what you're doing here isn't exactly consistent. So that is actually a signal that you need to stop and reevaluate that position. Maybe that's a sign to you that it isn't as simple and straightforward, and this is more of a nuanced issue. And you need to account for that and how you talk about it. Or that, you know, if this is an absolute for you, for everyone else. It has to be an absolute for you too. Otherwise it's not, and it's just a double standard and you will eventually get called out for it. You - we all have to take steps to be consistent, and we're all challenged continually and confronted with circumstances where  that's put to a test. It's put to a test with how we treat employees, with how we choose to spend money, and, and, you know, in all of these spaces and circumstances. And, and so we all have to do better. And if you're going to stand up and say, This is what I stand for, and this is what I'm holding - what I'm going to hold the City and the businesses within it, and the people within it accountable for, you can't exempt yourself from that. And we're at a time when it's really cool to talk about  supporting BIPOC communities and people are getting a lot of clout and credit for talking about how, you know, like their activist cred and their  community cred and all of that kind of stuff. And they are all for fairness and inclusion and equity yet, if you're like really trying hard to stiff a consultant and silence consultants, that's not right.  By the way. I'm just going to throw this in here for reasons. Yeah. We also need to have a conversation about the role of NDAs in politics in these situations. We've seen both in corporate America and locally, you know, situations with politicians using that to cover up abuse and harassment, like usually it's just not good. We all need to keep secrets within campaigns. Confidential information is confidential. That doesn't change. That's pretty easy to deal with. But using that just as a tool to silence criticism of your own activity and like really doubling down, because you really have something that you really want not talked about. Maybe the solution is addressing the thing that you don't want talked about.  Michael Charles: [00:25:42] That's right.  Crystal Fincher: [00:25:45] But that's what's going on - is lots of people are like name names and one, those are not, you know, the people who are in those immediate situations  can make the call about whether or not they want to do that. That is not my call to make.  I am there to support -  to support people and, and we're here to support each other. So that's -that's where that's at. And, and there were lots of questions about that, but, but in general Michael Charles: [00:26:15] That it's just like, it's, there's a bigger systemic problem than just these specific instances. And I think that's what we're really trying to speak to. And you call some of these things out - is it's like, how do we, like, why aren't we thinking about these in the time being, you know, rather than having to react, et cetera. So.  Crystal Fincher: [00:26:34] Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. And with so many campaigns  kicking off and getting started, these are all conversations that are being had. I mean, the other thing that came up - this was a broad ranging, unpleasant conversation evidently 'cause I'm referring to like, the things from the same conversation that were relayed to me, that are just so familiar - was the assumption also that came through and we've talked about this before. We've experienced it so many times that as  people  In politics, Black people in politics,  we can only speak to other Black people or we only speak to ethnic audiences and somehow we are not qualified to speak to white people, which one never seems to apply in the same way to white consultants. But also how - just how deeply ridiculous is that? And if anyone bothered to take five seconds to check and see the races that we have worked on and one,  you know, you would think that you would want to go with us in like rural and suburban races because we -  Michael Charles: [00:27:40] It always cracks me up because I'm from iowa. You know, I'm like - I lived in Iowa. Why would you not want me to work on rural races? I probably know rural America better than most of you people.  Crystal Fincher: [00:27:54] Yeah. That's the thing - working rural but suburbs are my jam. Like I got suburbs - that has worked out.  And, you know - Michael Charles: [00:28:07] I do understand it.  Crystal Fincher: [00:28:08] Yeah, we actually deal in those areas and especially with challengers, and really having to win messaging fights in those areas more frequently than a lot of other consultants do. So, you know, but this thinking that somehow we can only speak to certain groups or we can't adequately relate to other people is just very revealing  and very telling and disappointing and challenging. And that is automatically a limitation  that those people are telling you that they're, placing on you and  very revealing. It's no mystery why then they're not calling you or saying you aren't quite right. Even though you've won stuff, like just, I dunno, it just doesn't seem like that is the right fit and all of those very vague things that are said that really boiled down to, they just don't feel that we can relate. That we are so different, that we can't understand messaging in different situations when literally that's what we do every day. Michael Charles: [00:29:18] Or you get the, I heard you are hard to work with because you called somebody out for being racist before, you know?  Crystal Fincher: [00:29:24] Yeah. Yeah. And the racist person is never the problem. It's the person who had the audacity to say, Hey, that's not okay - the way that you're acting.  Yeah, it is, that's all toxic. And I don't like it. And I'm old and tired and in a position -  I do think that when we are in spaces and we have.  more privilege that we are there to use it  to make sure that other people don't have to struggle to the same degree because  you know, I, I can't speak for your journey, but I know along my path, I have struggled. I know what that feels like. And other people should not have to go through that. It that's, that's unfair. It is wrong.  And this treatment is really harmful. You don't know if someone is struggling to pay their bills when you're just stiffing them and acting like it's just not a big deal. You know, and it is that serious sometimes. I've, I have known people who have been attempting to do this who have  you know, been evicted over not being paid and who have like really struggled and suffered. And I've certainly experienced that myself. So I'm just not here for it.  And people should know that yes, people are watching and you just can't treat people like that. You just can't. So that's where it's at today. Hopefully those situations are resolved fairly quickly. And hopefully we can talk about issues that matter to people in all of these races, in these various cities and jurisdictions.  But how you conduct yourself matters and people are watching and kind of across the board, there is a new culture and  zest for accountability that I hope people are prepared for. And I'm looking forward to it.  Michael Charles: [00:31:11] Yeah, totally. I agree. I think that  that's part of the amazing things with the internet becoming so prominent. I also, you know, to kind of shift gears, but I also think that it's also lessened the impact of endorsements too, which I think is kind of an interesting piece that like these organizational endorsements - things don't matter as much now because we have the internet. We have all these other measures of accountability from which to judge people by. So I don't know, that's kind of a tangent, but. I think we're all like a very similar wrapped in piece of like, this accountability is actually providing better candidates. I actually think there's a lot of ways it's improving democracy in some ways.  Crystal Fincher: [00:31:51] I agree.  It is. I mean, you know, certainly positives and negatives have resulted from the ways we are able to share information and connect. But one of the dynamics in campaigns is that it is, it does, it can decentralize power. It can distribute power in ways that weren't there before and across the board. You know, you talk about endorsements. Those are really interesting all the time.  Because a lot of times there is a, you know, whether it's a board or committee -  a really small subset of an organization is driving a lot of the  endorsement process. And there has certainly been a long-standing feeling  in some spaces in areas that, that some of the endorsements represent the membership. Yeah. And so the members are like, well, how'd that happen? I don't, you know, like I thought this other candidate was the one who was down for workers, like this other candidate used to be one of us. And they're challenging an incumbent. And for some reason we're endorsing an incumbent that like voted against our interests? How does that, and you know, we've both watched this happen where like they will endorse against their members. And endorse people who've not been with them for some reason.  And sometimes people really like the proximity to power.  But, but it doesn't make sense. And so it has enabled people to be like, okay, but, but for the people who actually care for who is really down for workers or was really down for community or who is principally concerned with who is  voting for the right things in the SPOG contract, you know - name the issue that they can vet for themselves what is happening. And they don't need  a couple people on a board to signal to them who they should support. More information is more accessible and they can do that for themselves and actually even call their own, you know, endorsing board out. So it's an interesting dynamic. I think it's one that's - that we're going to see throughout this  election season. These races are going to be really interesting.  And we just saw Jessyn Farrell and Bruce Harrell - Michael Charles: [00:34:19] Wow. I didn't realize those rhymed until right now.  Crystal Fincher: [00:34:24] That - look, I just said that and I didn't realize it. Michael Charles: [00:34:31] The week of Harrell and Farrell. Yes. The week of Harrell and Farrell. Crystal Fincher: [00:34:34] Yes. The week of Harrell and Farrell has happened.  I certainly found Bruce Harrell's take on how to make communities safer from the SPD interesting.  You know, he had mentioned that he would have people - he'd, I want to say it verbatim because I don't want it to sound like I'm mocking him. I want to say exactly what he said accurately.  And so, and he had mentioned  his first step would be to ask every police officer to watch the video of George Floyd's murder and ask officers to sign a statement saying that inhumane treatment of human beings doesn't fly in Seattle. That's the baseline, he says. That was according to -  Natalie Graham was live-tweeting his announcement.  I am hoping to hear more details about more concrete accountability and actual  policy and institutional and organizational changes.  I think at this time, videos and pledges are not going to get it.  Michael Charles: [00:35:42] I mean, it's certainly ending climate change, that's for sure. Crystal Fincher: [00:35:48] Michael. I mean, we're going to have a robust con-. I can't even tell,look, this has put me all sideways. We're going to have a robust conversation  on, you know, on all of these issues. And, and the one thing I will say, that I am excited about is, is that we're going to hear, like, so often it's hard for people who are not Black, or people who are not people of color,  for white people to be like, okay, there are varying opinions among Black people. So often the tendency is to be like, okay, so what is the Black opinion? What is the Asian opinion? Like, you know, what does this community think? And like every other community, like white communities, we don't all share the same opinion as we just saw, right? We don't all hold -we don't all have the same background and experiences. We are not coming from the same place.  You know, we, we have different takes on things and I think that conversation is healthy. We  are going to have - I'm looking forward to a number of the conversations in  the city-wide city council race  that includes both Brianna Thomas and Nikkita Oliver. They're, they're both people who have done a ton of good work and I like them both. And they're going to have differing opinions on, on things. And I'm interested to hear that and we need to surface more nuance and real conversation from within communities.  Because that, that is a mainstream conversation. People are not aware of it - they should be. And so I'm excited that we're going to hear from a number of Black candidates who don't all agree and, and we're just going to talk about it, and we're going to deal with it as we, as we do. And as we have within the community, but, but to see majority communities and white communities interface with that and, and like experience that, which they don't often get to experience in major metropolitan races. I think that's a positive. A positive thing.  Michael Charles: [00:37:53] Yeah. I mean, as long as it's done in respectful ways, you know, I'm just, we've mentioned many times that people can have positive intentions, but their results can not, can oftentimes lead to, you know, negative scenarios. And I, you know, I'm just concerned with  people who aren't more in tune with the nuanced conversation. I hope they're able to respectfully engage when there are disagreements. Or, you know, understand that the viewpoints are - they're both coming from Black women, are both coming from people of color or, you know, Native and  Black folks. Like I just think there's a whole bunch of different experiences that you need to also consider the source before you begin criticizing the way that - our current political environment usually has allowed for the engagement. That the styles of engagement. So, you know, I'm a little cautious to suggest I'm excited.  I, I think that  I'm cautiously optimistic.  Crystal Fincher: [00:39:04] I -. you know, I think it's going to be ugly, but I think we have to deal with it. I guess I'm just like, well, we're going to have to deal with it. Like this is something they need to engage with. Here we go.  And, and that engagement, you know, as we talked about at the beginning of the show, a lot of that engagement will be ugly and  not respectful or, or, you know, not coming from a place of good faith or genuine engagement. And we need to see that too. Michael Charles: [00:39:38] Yep. That's true. And so how we started this today, you know, and with that, that piece, the Port article, I think it's important to see that viewpoint because we can't grow unless people are being honest with themselves.  Crystal Fincher: [00:39:50] Right.  Michael Charles: [00:39:50] With their viewpoint, so -  Crystal Fincher: [00:39:52] Yeah. And, and just because you - there is kind of like you talked about, well, you know, how can you say, how can you criticize me for doing this? I criticized Trump. I'm, you know, not doing that. And like, clearly dude, you have some blind spots  have to be addressed. Like, why don't we go ahead and correct that name that has still not been corrected. Can we start with that?  And like maybe before you assume what someone is talking about, like read their platform, engage with people of color to the same degree and with the same depth that you engage with these white candidates - to start.  So that's, I mean, that is, is, we're just going to have an interesting conversation. We're going to have another interesting week.  And there is more of a desire to see if people are living consistently with the values that they are espousing. So -  and we have a Campaign Workers  Coalition and union now. That's a new dynamic, which is exciting.  So, so there are people getting together and sharing and supporting each other  increasingly in a lot of spaces.  We're going to get an Amazon vote pretty soon - results. And so  I, I think that is an encouraging, exciting thing that we are seeing - that in spaces that have resisted organization for so long  in both overt  and direct and indirect ways like us, we aren't a union, but we are acting  cooperatively. I think that makes things better for all of us. Michael Charles: [00:41:31] Agreed.  Crystal Fincher: [00:41:33] We'll continue down that road.  Just want to thank everybody for taking time to listen today to Hacks and Wonks.  Today's show - as always a full text transcript of the show is available at officialhacksandwonks.com and in the show notes. I wanted to thank Michael Charles, who you can find on Twitter @mikeychuck that's, M I K E Y C H U C K.  And I'm on Twitter @finchfrii - that's F I N C H F R I I. You can find Hacks and Wonks wherever you get your podcasts, just type "Hacks and Wonks" into the search bar and subscribe to get our midweek show, and then our Friday almost live show. Of course, you can find more information at officialhacksandwonks.com. So thanks for joining us. Thank you, once again, Michael -  have fun with the new baby.  Michael Charles: [00:42:21] Thank you! And thank you for living your values Crystal, for doing all the work that you can to do it. So appreciate you.  Crystal Fincher: [00:42:29] Appreciate you. And like we're doing a lot of this work together, so appreciate too. Yeah. And we'll talk to you next week. Thanks everyone.  Michael Charles: [00:42:39] Sounds great. Thanks you all.

This week Crystal and co-host Heather Weiner, local political consultant, dissect the news of the week, including: The Washington State Senate's passage of a capital gains tax;  Mayor Durkan refusing FEMA funding for Seattle to support the city's efforts to house homeless folks;  Kroger's closing of grocery stores in response to the hazard pay requirement by Seattle (and now King County); Our city's ongoing vaccination efforts; AND The record number of women of color running for office this year in our region! As always, a full text transcript of the show is available below and at officialhacksandwonks.com. Find the host, Crystal Fincher on Twitter at @finchfrii. Find today's co-host, Heather Weiner at @hlweiner. More information is available at officialhacksandwonks.com.   Resources: Find out how to engage in Monday's hearing on capital gains tax here: https://app.leg.wa.gov/CSIRemote/Testimony/Form?chamber=House&meetingFamilyId=28825&agendaItemFamilyId=141418&remoteLocationId=52&testify=False Learn more about this week's passage of capital gain's taxes in the senate: https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/politics/after-fierce-debate-washington-senate-approves-new-tax-on-capital-gains-by-one-vote/  Read Publicola's coverage of tech bros advocating against capital gains, while receiving taxpayer funded paychecks: https://publicola.com/2021/03/02/capital-gains-tax-opponents-received-taxpayer-funded-aid/  Get into our state's current upside down tax code here: https://crosscut.com/opinion/2021/02/can-wa-lawmakers-finally-flip-states-upside-down-tax-system  Learn more about Mayor Durkan's rejection of FEMA funding here: https://www.realchangenews.org/news/2021/03/03/mayor-durkan-rejects-federal-funding-hotel-shelters-city-opening-new-permanent-vaccine  Read about King County expanding hazard pay to unincorporated areas here: https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/health/king-county-approves-hazard-pay-for-grocery-workers-in-unincorporated-areas/  Follow continued vaccination efforts at the Washington State Department of Health website: https://www.doh.wa.gov/Emergencies/COVID19/vaccine  Support women of color running for office at https://www.persistpacwa.org/, or https://www.opportunity-pac.com/  Learn about National Women's Political Caucus of Washington trainings, including an upcoming training specifically for women of color running for office, here: https://www.nwpcwa.org/events   Transcript: Crystal Fincher: [00:00:00] Welcome to Hacks and Wonks. I'm your host Crystal Fincher. On this show, we talk with policy wonks and political hacks to gather insight into local politics and policy through the lens of those doing the work with behind-the-scenes perspective on politics in our state. Full transcripts and resources referenced in the show were always available at officialhacksandwonks.com and in our episode notes. Today we're continuing our Friday almost-live shows where we review the news of the week with a cohost. Welcome back to the program friend of the show and today's cohost, local political consultant and wonderful, incredible woman, Heather Weiner.  Heather Weiner: [00:00:45] Hi, Crystal. So excited to see you. So much to talk about today.  Crystal Fincher: [00:00:50] Lots to talk about. There has been a lot happening and I guess we can start off by talking about - Hey! Capital gains passed through the Senate, it's moving through the Legislature, it's over to the House. This is a big deal.  Heather Weiner: [00:01:07] This is a really big deal. I mean, okay. Taxes - not that sexy, but boy is this exciting! Okay.  Crystal Fincher: [00:01:13] Taxes are hot.  Heather Weiner: [00:01:14] All right. Taxes are so hot. You want to, you want to get my attention, baby? Come over here and talk to me a little bit about progressive revenue. Look - here's what's happening. We have got probably the most movement that we have had in the last eight years from the State Legislature. They are finally finally listening when we say that Washington State is the worst - #50 in the country - when it comes to how we tax ourselves. We let the richest people get away with paying the least and we make the lowest income people pay the most - the highest percentage of their income in sales, property, and other taxes. So it is time to fix that. And it's also time to jumpstart our economy by putting a bunch more money in.  And here's how the Legislature says they want to do it. They want to tax the extraordinary profits that are being made on the stock market by the uber-rich - not your real estate, not your mom and pop small business, not even selling your yacht. If you sell a bunch of Amazon stock and you make - for every dollar over quarter million dollars. So quarter million dollars free. But when you start making money over a quarter million dollars, you've got to pay a modest tax of 7%. You would think though, that we were ripping people's eyelashes out because the amount of opposition that's coming out about this and hysteria has just been shocking. Nevertheless, State Senate just passed it 25-24, over the last weekend. It was a very long Saturday for me. And there's going to be a hearing on it in the House on Monday.  Crystal Fincher: [00:02:50] Yes, there is. Lots of people organizing and planning on attending the hearing on Monday. We will include information in the show notes about - if you want to make your voice heard - now is as easy a time as it's ever been to participate in the legislative process from home. And you don't even have to testify. You can just say, you know what? I just want noted on the record that I agree with this. I'm holding a pro position. Really simple and easy to do. We'll include links for how to do that. Meanwhile, we've got a hundred billionaires in the state who are just coasting and literally paying nothing. There is no income tax and so it is just letting people skate by.  Heather Weiner: [00:03:29] No, and right - and so they will tell you, Oh, well, we're going to move. We're going to go somewhere else. But that's not true. The data shows, I mean, look, 40 other states in the country already have capital gains tax, so where are you going to go? Idaho has a capital gains tax, people. Come on, we're letting Idaho beat us on this? So people saying that they might leave? No, not true.  So listen to this. The Washington Tech Industry Association, which is all the founders of all the big tech startups, they sent a letter signed by more than a hundred of these CEOs of these tech startups. I mean, these are companies that do really interesting things. Although some of them do things like trade Bitcoin. And what they said is, Ahh! You don't put a capital gains tax on us for childcare and early learning. It's gonna, it's gonna - we won't be able to bring smart people to Washington State for this. But it turns out PubliCola reports that over half of those CEOs scooped up federal taxpayer subsidies and money over the last year to subsidize their own freaking salaries. So here's what they're saying. No, no, no, no, no. We don't want to pay our share, but we'll be happy to take it.  Crystal Fincher: [00:04:34] As it has always been and using some of the old tired talking points that we're used to hearing whenever someone talks about raising the minimum wage, paying workers a living wage - that has been debunked and proven false every time it has happened. Seattle is actually the perfect place to look at, to see how the economy grows and expands when you pay workers more and you make sure people at the bottom are not neglected by people at the top - that we all have to pay our fair share. Heather Weiner: [00:05:06] As studies show that you - for every dollar that the government invests back into the economy, pays off $3 for our communities, for small businesses, to keep people employed, and to keep consumers with money in their pockets. It's so much better than having that money being hoarded in - up at the top. When - where do they put it? They put it into, you know, real estate in other countries, they put it into REITs, they put it all kinds of places. No, that money needs to be flowing through the economy and helping us rebound from this recession. So how's it - is it going to pass? What do you think Crystal? Crystal Fincher: [00:05:37] It is definitely gonna pass. They have the votes for it in the House. The big issue was the Senate, with capital gains. The House is more progressive than the Senate is. And it definitely took last election to get the Senate in the place, with a composition, to pass it. And it wasn't clear that it was going to pass until - really the last minute. This was not a vote that people knew which way it was going to go. Heather Weiner: [00:06:03] It was a tough Saturday for me. I definitely had a bottle of wine out by about 9:00 PM after watching all that Senate debate. But let me just give a shout out to my friend, Crystal Fincher. Because Crystal, one of the campaigns that you worked on actually ended up being key. I mean, elections matter people. Crystal, you worked on Senator Nobles' campaign. And because we elected Senator Nobles and replaced a conservative, Steve O'Ban , that helped change the makeup of the Senate where we finally did have enough votes to overcome and get that through.  This is the first step though. Look, it raises half a billion dollars a year from these extraordinary stock market profits. That's only 7% of extraordinary stock market profits - is a half a billion. So raises half a billion dollars a year for childcare, early learning, and taxpayer assistance - low-income taxpayer assistance. And that's just the first step. We need at least another $2-3 billion a year before we can start doing things like really helping low-income taxpayers and small businesses by reducing B&O and sales taxes and other things. First, we got to get the money into the system. Very excited about this. This is groundbreaking stuff. Elections matter. Let's do it.  Crystal Fincher: [00:07:16] Elections matter. And I'm so thrilled to have Senator Nobles in our Legislature and to just watch her leadership - and make a difference on a very consequential vote that is going to help people who needed the most. Moving over to the City and contrasting legislators and leaders coming through. One who has not been - who we've talked about on this program many times - Mayor Durkan. And this week and in "What is Mayor Durkan doing to antagonize people in the city and not meet basic needs of people? " Heather Weiner: [00:07:52] WTFMD. Crystal Fincher: [00:07:55] Is you know - we talk about funding being such a major problem. We talk about homelessness being such a major problem. She's talked about that and has talked about how we definitely need more funding. So it turns out FEMA's like, Hey, we have more funding over here. And Durkan was like, Nah.  Heather Weiner: [00:08:15] Doesn't want it.  Crystal Fincher: [00:08:16] Yeah. What is the deal? Heather Weiner: [00:08:17] Has been making a ton of excuses - really just putting up a bunch of roadblocks to not taking this money for non-congregate shelter. That means for people who are homeless, who would normally go to be offered shelter where there's many, many, many, many people in the room that's not COVID safe. And so what we've been trying to do for the last year is to try to get some FEMA money in, to pay for motel rooms where people could have some shelter and still be safe from COVID. San Francisco has taken in this money. Other cities are taking this money. But for some reason, this mayor has been really highly, highly resistant.  And so I was really pleased to see that Council President González - now full disclosure, I do a little bit of work with her on her campaign - but in her official capacity, called BS on this, and I'm just not going to wait around anymore and just went ahead and went over her head. Whatever the Mayor said, and just went right to FEMA and had her own meeting with FEMA, and then released a statement saying, I'm not going to accept these excuses anymore. We can and should do this. We have got to do it. So let's see if that gets the gates open and that's going to be a lot of fun.  Crystal Fincher: [00:09:26] Yeah, certainly. And her other colleagues on the Council have signaled that they certainly intend to pursue this funding and that that's something that we should be doing. We just recently talked with Erica Barnett about this, of PubliCola, and she's done a lot of reporting. There's a lot of great information you can find on this subject there, but it really is confusing. I mean, Mayor Durkan seems to make these decisions that don't have a connection to the people of Seattle. And I just wonder, who is she listening to for this advice where she thought it would be a good idea to not get additional funding to address what she has called the top problem facing the city she is in charge of governing.  Heather Weiner: [00:10:09] Yeah, we have this double emergency problem of the pandemic, which is, you know, I know that we're all feeling very optimistic, but we are still in the middle of a massive pandemic. And the massive emergency crisis of the lack of housing for everyone who needs it in the City of Seattle. So how do we address that issue? Eh, ignore it. Don't accept money from the federal government. I just don't get it.  Crystal Fincher: [00:10:34] Yeah. I mean, it's really confusing. And it's infuriating because this is a problem that we all should be invested in solving. We have to get people off the street and into shelter, and then we have to get people into permanent stable housing. And funding is certainly an issue for this. And you know, a lot of it comes down to priorities, but we do need more money. And if someone is willing to say, FEMA is willing to say, Hey, we can help out with this. We have a national interest in solving this problem , as we do at all levels of government, then we should take that. For no other reason than that gives us more money to address this problem or other problems. Heather Weiner: [00:11:17] Well, and you save lives. You're literally saving lives and saving money in terms of all the health care that needs to be done when people are outside, exposed to the elements, or exposed to COVID. Speaking of outside and being exposed, the other big news that's happening right now in the City of Seattle is the City Council passed a requirement that grocery stores like QFC pay their workers hazard pay. Just an extra $4 an hour, because they're having to pay for childcare while they're continuing to work. They themselves are under a lot of stress and they have been the frontline heroes - the grocery store workers have.  And Kroger, QFC's owner, instead of actually paying - not only do they sue to stop having to pay their own employees hazard pay. But then in retaliation, they close two stores in Seattle. They announced they're closing two stores in Seattle and blame hazard pay. They didn't just do that in Seattle. They just did it in LA this week - threatened to close two more stores. What a bunch of whiny bullies. What's going on there?  Crystal Fincher: [00:12:23] Whiny bullies and extremely disingenuous because this is happening in a backdrop of them being more profitable than they have been in quite some time during the pandemic. This has driven people to grocery stores because dining out is not as much of an option as it has been. People are buying more groceries. They're buying more at home, they're getting groceries delivered. And so they have seen windfall profits. This is not a situation where, as they've tried to spin it, our margins are razor thin and this is going to make the prices go up. They have been reaping profits during the pandemic. That's one of the dynamics - that the rich have gotten richer during the pandemic. And people who were hurting are hurting worse. And so all we're saying is that it is not possible for you to reap these profits without the risks that these people are taking on the front lines, to secure all that profit for you. They deserve a portion of that. What you're doing is not possible without that. They are putting themselves and anyone else in their households at greater risk in order to provide a service to the public. You're reaping windfall profits - a tiny percentage of that can go to the workers who made this possible. Heather Weiner: [00:13:36] Temporarily. Crystal Fincher: [00:13:37] And they've said, yeah, and it's not even permanent. It's temporary. And they said, I know I am receiving a multi-million dollar salary. And I know that we are letting our shareholders profit from this. But we must draw the line at the workers who were on the front lines. We cannot give them just a few more dollars, but we just can't, we can't afford it. We can't do it. It's a slippery slope, all of those arguments. It's ridiculous. And so they have decided that they're going to try and play hardball and say, Well, we're just going to close.  Heather Weiner: [00:14:13] Yeah. And so they, you know, look, Kroger made a billion dollars more in profits last year. They doubled the profits they made during so far during the pandemic. They made so much money that they then did a stock buyback, which means they bought a bunch of their shares back at massive increase in price from their shareholders. And the CEO, this guy, McMullen - Rodney McMullen - just made - makes $21 million a year in salary alone. And yet does not want to pay hardworking QFC workers an extra $4.  Now despite this kind of intimidation and bullying tactics, the King County Council voted to extend hazard pay to stores in the unincorporated parts of King County this week, which is great. So that's like White Center, um, and some of the other unincorporated -  Crystal Fincher: [00:15:04] Skyway yeah.  Heather Weiner: [00:15:05] Right. And Burien has already passed this. I hear that Auburn is thinking about passing it. Bainbridge is thinking about passing it. Bellingham. So there's lots of other places that will continue to do this. What's QFC going to do? Close every single one of its Fred Meyer and QFC stores? Come on. This kind of corporate bullying is really going to weaken their brand and in the long run hurts communities that need these grocery stores. Crystal Fincher: [00:15:29] Absolutely. And also we've seen PCC decide to make the $4 nationwide for all of their workers - and we can afford this right now, we've done quite well.  Heather Weiner: [00:15:44] Trader Joe's, which is a non-union grocery store has gone ahead and just given everybody across the country - all of their staff - hazard pay increases. I mean, come on. Crystal Fincher: [00:15:58] You're listening to Hacks and Wonks with your host Crystal Fincher on KVRU 105.7 FM. Heather Weiner: [00:16:08] All right. Well, which leads us now to vaccinations. I mean, so grocery store workers have been saying, we're on the front lines, we need to be vaccinated. Teachers are saying we have to be vaccinated before we go back to schools. But people haven't been talking very much about the people who've already been out there around customers without their masks on. And that's - restaurant workers.  Crystal Fincher: [00:16:28] It's restaurant workers. And we recently had some updates and guidance in eligibility.   It was recently announced by Governor Inslee that all teachers and childcare workers are now eligible to receive the vaccine. They announced that coming up in the next, I don't even have the exact date, but couple of weeks that frontline workers are going to be eligible for that. So grocery store workers and others, and they will deserve to be. But one group that is left out are restaurant workers. And restaurants are one of the only areas where even when masks are required, it's acceptable for people to take them off as they eat, because you can't eat with a mask on. And they're expanding now - the capacity in restaurants for reopening. So we still have a large percentage of the population unvaccinated. The risk is very present and real. And there are areas where people can congregate in even greater numbers now without wearing a mask. Why are restaurant workers not considered essential frontline workers? I hope that changes fairly soon.  Heather Weiner: [00:17:35] Yeah, I sure do too. As someone who lives with two people in the industry - I have, my best friend is a chef. And her wife is a somm. And the somm lost her job in March - last March, has been unemployed for a year. And my friend Becky continues to go to work and is exposed on a daily basis. Yeah. Very important. Let's go to some good news.  Crystal Fincher: [00:18:00] Good news. Good news is good. There is a lot happening in terms of elections. And we've certainly seen calls and demands and the necessity to broaden the voices who represent us in public office. We just talked about Senator Nobles, the only Black woman in the Senate right now. There was not one before she came in - immediately prior. So having more representation, broader representation, and empowering more people - sharing power with a more diverse set of people is - just helps us to be better represented across the board. And we are certainly seeing, a greater percentage, in particular, women of color, running for office across the board, which is really exciting. Heather Weiner: [00:18:52] Super exciting. It's amazing. I can't believe how many women of color are running for office in this year. And these are in municipal level elections - county and city level elections. But those are the jumping off places for a lot of people who then go on to run for Legislature or Congress. Here's where it gets hard - is when they start running against each other. Do you want to talk about some of the women of color who are running? Can we gossip about them?  Crystal Fincher: [00:19:17] We can, um, you know, lots of people are familiar with the women running in the City of Seattle. Certainly for Mayor, we have Lorena González, who's the sitting Seattle City Council President, who's running for mayor. Colleen Echohawk - also running for mayor.  Heather Weiner: [00:19:35] Smart, great woman.  Crystal Fincher: [00:19:36] Yeah. Teresa Mosqueda - running for her city-wide position for reelection. And then we have Brianna Thomas and Nikkita Oliver, who are running for the other city-wide seat, the one being vacated by Lorena González.  Heather Weiner: [00:19:53] So how do you - let's - how do you think this is going to play out with Brianna and Nikkita? Crystal Fincher: [00:19:59] I don't know.  Heather Weiner: [00:20:00] Oh my gosh. Listeners, you should have seen her face - the way she just threw her hands up in the air. Oh my gosh.  Crystal Fincher: [00:20:06] You know, it is - I have deep respect for both of them, and have known Brianna for quite some time, have worked alongside Brianna. Have admired and respected Nikkita for quite some time. But as we said before, it is not a bad thing for people to run against each other. And as I talk about a lot of times, if you are in political spaces in Seattle, which is, you know - basically elects Democrats and people to the left of Democrats. If you have friends in that space, it is inevitable that you are going to have friends or people that you respect and admire run against each other.  But certainly with Brianna, she has a lot of experience within the system. But she very much came from outside. She was instrumental to getting the first $15 an hour - Heather Weiner: [00:21:01] In SeaTac Crystal Fincher: [00:21:02] - ordinance passed, in the country. In SeaTac, before there was the 15 Now campaign that I think people think about. Before it happened in Seattle, it happened in SeaTac.  Heather Weiner: [00:21:14] Yup. I worked with her on that campaign.  Crystal Fincher: [00:21:16] Yes, you did.  Heather Weiner: [00:21:18] She was ah-mazing. She was the grassroots person and she just organized the heck out of that. Door knocking - I mean, there's really only 7,000 voters in SeaTac and I think every single one of them knows Brianna.  Crystal Fincher: [00:21:29] I think so.  Heather Weiner: [00:21:31] Oh gosh, here she is at my door again. That's true. The other thing that Brianna did, has done, I mean there's so many things. She also worked on the Democracy Voucher campaign and now - which is one of the reasons why Nikkita , and Colleen Echohawk, and Lorena, and Teresa are all able to run - is because Brianna helped to pass the Democracy Voucher campaign, by working on the campaign before she ever ran for office.  Crystal Fincher: [00:21:53] Yeah. And you know, I think it's an example of people working often in service of the same policy and with the same goal, but working in and using different methodsand different tracks. Because, you know, Nikkita certainly has been a voice of moral clarity. They have been instrumental in the push to defund the Seattle Police - to reduce the funding. And that, that is a critical piece. We cannot maintain funding or increase funding and expect things to change. But also in not stopping the conversation at defund or not, which a lot of the opponents like to just put that as, Would you believe in defunding? And that's not, that's not even - like that's just the start of the conversation. I think this is going to be a spirited and exciting time. And I also think the mayoral race is going to be really interesting and have some real substantive conversations. And two people who've done a lot of positive work.  Heather Weiner: [00:22:53] It sounds to me like what you're saying a little bit is , if you were to say what the main policy issues are that are going to be focused on during these campaigns.It almost sounds to me like you're saying, the big - the issue around police reform and the different ways to address police reform, are kind of symbolized by Brianna's - uh, you know, Nikkita has an abolitionist perspective and Brianna has a change the system, work within the system perspective. Uh, I'm probably misstating that. And then I would say between Colleen and Lorena, probably the biggest issue is going to be how to deal with homelessness. It's going to be really interesting policy debates. I can't wait to watch them.  Crystal Fincher: [00:23:31] Really interesting policy debates. And I am really wanting to hear - that there is, there is a lot of conversation to talk about how do you turn activism into policy? And that is not a simple and easy thing. And I think what we have seen in recent years is people who have been activists , and who have been on the front lines organizing and moving policy and campaigns elsewhere being elected into government, or being hired onto staff.  Heather Weiner: [00:24:01] Well, let's talk about some other cities, where there are people of - women of color running. Um, where else are they running?  Crystal Fincher: [00:24:07] Well, I mean, I will talk about the city of Kent where, there was a great South Seattle Emerald article, I think from this past Monday, about Dawn Bennett, who's running for mayor.  Running as a challenger against an incumbent mayor. Satwinder Kaur running for reelection on the City Council and another familiar name, Brenda Fincher, running for reelection on the Kent City Council.  Heather Weiner: [00:24:31] Do you - is there any relation?   Crystal Fincher: [00:24:33] She is my mom. She is a wonderful, kind woman. She's much more kind and compassionate than I am.  I am a fan of hers. But the progressives on that council are a minority. Um, and so it is notable and novel that we have three women of color running in the city of Kent. And  races in the suburbs oftentimes solidify later than races in big cities. So we've seen like tons of announcements in the city of Seattle. A lot of times in the suburbs that - we don't have a firm idea of exactly who's going to be in until filing week in mid May.  Hamdi Mohamed is running for the Port of Seattle. Lots of excitement about her. Shukri Olow is running for King County Council District 5. In Tacoma, there are a number of candidates - Kiara Daniels and Anne Artman for City Council, Chelsea McElroy for the School Board. There - just a lot of wonderful women of color running across the board. A lot of great Black women running. So I'm excited to continue to see women who have been leaders in their spaces to grow their power, and to grow power within their communities.  Heather Weiner: [00:25:47] Amazing. This is great. And is there any kind of group that people can go to if they want to support all of these women at once? Like, is there - are there any PACs or anything like that they could contribute to?  Crystal Fincher: [00:25:57] That's a great question. I don't necessarily know that - there are a whole slew of PACs, obviously. Persist PAC, who I've done some work with, who supported Black women running for office last year and SeaTac City Council candidates running for office the year before - is going to be involved in these races. So certainly keep an eye on Persist. Opportunity PAC is another PAC that has been in the space. If people are interested in running for office, supporting people for office, there is a training with the Northwest Women's Political - National Women's Political Caucus of Washington for that, that I would highly encourage people to attend. That link will be on the website and in the show notes, so absolutely.  And just a really exciting time. So I'm really excited to see how these continue to unfold. You know, it is sometimes an uncomfortable feeling when two people you like and respect, or more sometimes, run against each other. But really it's a sign that power is becoming more accessible and more attainable and that we can have these debates. We, as you pointed out, I've talked a lot about us not being a monolith. Um, you can't lump communities of color together. You can't lump the Black community together as if we all have the same opinion. But our varied opinions are important and it's important for that to be part of the national discourse , because we are. We are here, we exist and that's an important element, as it is with all communities.  So, and that's pretty much our time for today. But thank you once again for joining us today. I always love when you're on the show, Heather.  Heather Weiner: [00:27:36] Aww, I love chatting with you and gossiping with you. It's just - I always bring myself a cup of tea for this cup of tea.  Crystal Fincher: [00:27:44] Always fun. And the gossip is top notch with you always.  Thank you to everyone for listening to Hacks and Wonks on KVRU 105.7 FM on this Friday, March 12th, 2021. Our chief audio engineer at KVRU is Maurice Jones Jr. The producer of Hacks and Wonks is Lisl Stadler. And our wonderful co-host today was Seattle political consultant, Heather Weiner. You can find Heather on Twitter @ hlweiner - that's W E I N E R. You can find me on Twitter @finchfrii - that's F I N C H F R I I. And now you can follow Hacks and Wonks on iTunes, Spotify, or wherever else you get your podcasts. Just type "Hacks and Wonks" into the search bar, be sure to subscribe to get our Friday almost-live show and our mid-week show delivered to your podcast feed. You can also get a full transcript of this episode and links to resources referenced in the show at officialhacksandwonks.com and in the podcast episode notes. Thanks for tuning in. Talk to you next time.

Community organizer Nikkita Oliver has launched a campaign for Seattle city council pos. 9

Join Katrina Johnson, Michael Bennett, Nikkita Oliver and Jesse Hagopian to talk about justice for Charleena Lyles and Black Lives Matter. Katrina Johnson, Charleena Lyles' cousin, will join Michael Bennett, Nikkita Oliver and Jesse Hagopian to talk about the struggle for justice for Charleena and the new uprising for Black Lives. The mass uprising in the wake of the police murder of George Floyd around the world has created bold new possibilities for the Black Lives Matter Movement. Bold incentives are being taken around the country to defund, disarm, and dismantle policing. As the African American Policy institute raised by launching #SayHerName, much of the focus of police violence has been given to the killing of Black men, and Black women and transgendered people have not received the same attention. The recent murder of Breonna Taylor, a 26-year-old African-American emergency medical technician, who was fatally shot by Louisville Metro Police Department by police is one case that deserves more attention. Another is Charleena Lyles. On June 18, 2017, two Seattle police officers entered the apartment of Charleena Lyles. The police had been called by Charleena because she feared someone was breaking into her home. Within minuets of entering the apartment, the officers shot her down in a hail of seven bullets, with at least three of them in the back. The officers alleged they had to use lethal force because Charleena had a paring knife. One of the officers was supposed to have a taser, but had not properly charged it, so he did not bring it with him–a violation of department policy. Charleena was pregnant and was killed in front of three of her four kids, who had to be carried over her body to leave the apartment. Join a conversation about next steps in winning justice for Charleena and her family and how her story connects to the new movement for Black Lives in the streets today. Katrina Johnson works for the Public Defenders Association as a Project Manager diverting people out of the criminal legal system into community based resources—instead of jail and prosecution. Katrina became a social justice activist/advocate and spokesperson for her family in June of 2017, after her first cousin Charleena Lyles was killed in her home in North Seattle after police officers responded to the location to investigate a theft Charleena had reported. Katrina works with other families who have lost loved ones to the use of lethal force in Washington State and around the county. Michael Bennett is a three-time Pro Bowler, Pro Bowl MVP, Super Bowl Champion, and two-time NFC Champion. He has gained international recognition for his public support for the Black Lives Matter Movement, women's rights, and other social justice causes. In 2017, he was named one of the 100 Most Influential African Americans by The Root, was the Seattle Seahawks nominee for the NFL's Walter Payton Man of the Year award, and was honored along with his brother Martellus with a BET Shine a Light award for exceptional service. He is the author of Things That Make White People Uncomfortable. Nikkita Oliver is a Seattle-based creative, community organizer, abolitionist, educator, and attorney. Nikkita is the co-executive director of Creative Justice, an arts-based alternative to incarceration and a healing engaged youth-led community-based program. Jesse Hagopian is an award-winning educator and a leading voice on issues of educational equity and social justice unionism. He is an editor for Rethinking Schools magazine and is the co-editor of Teaching for Black Lives, and editor of More Than a Score: The New Uprising Against High-Stakes Testing. Watch the live event recording: https://youtu.be/vAM_XkdCXJY Buy books from Haymarket: www.haymarketbooks.org Follow us on Soundcloud: soundcloud.com/haymarketbooks

Nikkita Oliver, community organizer, attorney and Seattle Peoples Party co-founder; and Matt Remle, Lakota human rights activist, writer and community organizer, join us to dive into the importance of focusing on local budgets and how those budgets shape the politics and society around us.Sean Blackmon, the man, the legend and the host of By Any Means Necessary here on Radio Sputnik, joins us to discuss police misconduct in Washington, DC, and a new law hoping to curb racist 911 calls in San Francisco, California. On Tuesday, San Francisco's Board of Supervisors unanimously passed the Caution Against Racial and Exploitative Non-Emergencies (CAREN) Act, giving people the right to sue a 911 caller in civil court. "All 11 supervisors signed on to the legislation, guaranteeing its passage," the Associated Press reported Tuesday. "Other places have moved to make placing racist 911 calls a hate crime. California’s governor recently signed a measure making the crime a misdemeanor punishable by jail time and a fine. New York approved legislation allowing the victims of racist 911 calls to sue." Will this slow down white people from calling the cops?Lee Camp, comedian, activist, journalist, host of the show “Redacted Tonight” on RT America and author of the recent book “Bullet Points and Punch Lines,” joins us to discuss the recent news that Democratic presidential nominee Joe Biden is vetting Republicans - surprise, surprise - for his Cabinet. GOP names floating around include former Arizona Senator Jeff Flake, former Ohio Governor John Kasich, Massachusetts Governor Charlie Baker and former Pennsylvania Congressman Charlie Dent. Is this just for show, or should we fully expect Biden to try to put together some sort of “team of rivals” to show that he’s a uniter, in the event that he wins?

My guest is Nikkita Oliver (she/her). She is an attorney, writer, educator, abolitionist and for many of us “The People’s Mayor”. In 2017 she was the first political candidate from Seattles Peoples Party, and ran for the mayor of Seattle, coming in a very close 3rd out of 21 others. As of late she can be found on the front lines of the powerful Seattle activist movement, fighting toward the decriminalization, defunding and abolition of the racist, sexist and classist institutions who are systemically killing our BIPOC & QTIPOC community. We discuss the current demands around the local BLM and civil rights movements, if she will run for Mayor again and how she is practicing self care during it all. Follow:@nikkitaoliver@kingcountyequitynow@decrimseattle

The Black Lives Matter movement has made a tremendous amount of progress in a very short time. In a single month, it has gone from an afterthought for many Americans to the leading topic of conversation in the nation and a major catalyst for change. Hundreds of thousands of Americans have taken to the streets in support of the movement's message, and polling shows that a majority of Americans at least sympathize with its aims. It remains to be seen whether this latest chapter of America's ongoing civil rights movement can hold the public's attention and favor long enough to result in real change. For this week's episode, we are joined by Nikkita Oliver, one of the movement's leading voices, to talk about the work being done by the activists, the demands being made of city leaders and where she sees the fight for Black lives going from here. Plus, reporter Hannah Weinberger provides us with a coronavirus update, parsing the details of and concerns over the state's reopening plan.

Most people in Seattle know Nikkita Oliver from her historic mayoral run in 2017. She lost the primary election by less than 2,000 votes. But Oliver is also a musician, a poet, an attorney, and the co-director of an incredible organization called Creative Justice, which works with youth most affected by the school-to-prison pipeline. She’s also been an active organizer in Seattle’s protests and advancing the demands to defund and demilitarize the police. A few weeks ago, she participated in a 12,000 person march from Seattle’s Cal Anderson Park to city hall where she then livestreamed what was supposed to be a closed door meeting with Seattle Mayor Jenny Durkan. Oliver laid out demands for the city—defund the police, fund community-based health and safety, and drop all charges against protesters.  KEXP’s Gabriel Teodros talks with Oliver about the importance of diversity within a movement, the false narrative of the good protester vs. bad protester, and what’s inspiring her during this moment. Read a transcript of the conversation here Support the show.

Most know Nikkita Oliver from making headlines during the Seattle mayoral race of 2017. While she didn't end up one of the top two, she powerfully moved the needle in Seattle politics, centering the conversation on those frequently excluded from halls of power instead of the established players.Today she joins Crystal for a conversation about Seattle politics now.

Live from the living room! It's Casey and Naomi back with a couple of previous guests: Nikkita Oliver is talking about the social effects of the corona virus on the most vulnerable among us, and Jasmine Blackwell is talking about how it affects teachers, kids and parents. It's deep dive into our new reality.

The Activist Class sit down with formal mayoral candidate, attorney, and activist Nikkita Oliver to break down her experience growing up in Indiana, learn which Disney Zaddy she loves the most, the 8 year battle to stop the youth jail and what we can do about it now, and how she's digesting the presidential race.  Class is in session!  

This one has been a couple years in the making and we're so glad we were finally able to get Nikkita Oliver in. We broke down her roots from coming up in Indianapolis, schooling in Seattle as well as her poetry and social activism to her eventual mayoral campaign. If you're not hip, it's a must that you #GetFamiliar #ItsTheBiggest

At the intersection of art and organizing, activists have found success combating white supremacy. Town Hall presented one such activist award-winning poet, educator, and Take Em Down NOLA coalition co-founder A Scribe Called Quess? He delivered poems from his latest book Sleeper Cell, investigating the institutionalized racism and disenfranchisement of Black youth. A Scribe Called Quess? told the story of a struggle that culminated with the successful organizing of Take Em Down NOLA to remove four white supremacist monuments in New Orleans in 2017. He explored the history of white supremacist symbolism in New Orleans from a global and deep time perspective, zooming in to the decades long struggle to remove these symbols. Along the way, A Scribe Called Quess? connected the symbols of white supremacy that litter New Orleans to the history of racist violence that they reflect and endorse to the present day systemic oppression and state sanctioned violence they give license to. Listen in as A Scribe Called Quess? presented a poetic and civic exploration of the fight against white supremacy. A Scribe Called Quess? is a 2-time national poetry slam champion and founding member of Slam New Orleans. He is also an educator, actor, playwright, activist and organizer. Nikkita Oliver is a Seattle-based creative, community organizer, abolitionist, and attorney. She is also a case manager for Creative Justice, an arts project aimed at transforming the criminal legal system and providing space for young people to be self-empowered and self-determined. Presented by Town Hall Seattle and Project Pilgrimage. Recorded live in The Forum on January 17, 2020. 

The WTO protests in November 1999 put Seattle on the map in a way that grunge and tech never could. The World Trade Organization had planned a meeting in the city to discuss trade agreements for the new millennium, but then tens of thousands of protestors filled the streets. For days, activists overwhelmed the event and the city's police force, which responded with tear gas and rubber bullets. The protesters were there to condemn corporate power and the potential impacts of free trade on human rights and the environment. And while the WTO ultimately continued its work, the protest had a big effect on Seattle and the world. It influenced similar movements to come, like Occupy Wall Street. And it impacted how we think and talk about capitalism, globalism and economic equity. Now, on the 20th anniversary of the so-called "Battle in Seattle," we invited a panel of local leaders to the Crosscut Talks podcast to discuss what happened in Seattle in 1999 and what it means to our world today. The episode begins with former Seattle police chief Norm Stamper and activist John Sellers, who are later joined by activist Nikkita Oliver and Nowell Coquillard, director of the Washington State China Relations Council. The conversation was recorded at KCTS9 studios in Seattle on November 19, 2019, as part of the Crosscut Talks Live series.

The history of America as a country goes beyond that of a land “discovered” by a few brave men in the “New World.” Indigenous human rights advocate Roxanne Dunbar-Ortiz joined us at Town Hall to reveal the roles that settler colonialism and policies of American Indian genocide played in forming our national identity. Dunbar-Ortiz was joined by Seattle-based educator and activist Nikkita Oliver to present an examination of the legacy of Indigenous peoples’ resistance, resilience, and steadfast fight against imperialism. Together they explored An Indigenous Peoples’ History of the United States for Young People, a comprehensive adaptation of Dunbar-Ortiz’s essential work restructured for middle-grade and young adult readers to include discussion topics, archival images, original maps, recommendations for further reading, and more. Join Dunbar-Ortiz and Oliver for an examination of our nation’s legacy and a chance to think critically about our place in history. Roxanne Dunbar-Ortiz has been active in the international Indigenous movement for more than four decades and is known for her lifelong commitment to national and international social justice issues. She is the author of eight books, including An Indigenous Peoples’ History of the United States and The Great Sioux Nation which was the fundamental document at the first international conference on Indigenous peoples of the Americas, held at the United Nations’ headquarters in Geneva. Nikkita Oliver is a Seattle-based creative, community organizer, abolitionist, educator, and attorney. Working at the intersections of arts, law, education, and community organizing she strives to create experiences which draw us closer to our humanity. Presented by Town Hall Seattle and UNEA. Recorded live in The Great Hall at Town Hall Seattle on September 11, 2019. 

TODAY'S EPISODE IS SPONSORED BY: THE STREET FANTASY FOOTBALL FULL TIME FANTASY Today we welcome: Roxanne Dunbar-Ortiz has been active in the international Indigenous movement for more than four decades and is known for her lifelong commitment to national and international social justice issues. She is the author of eight books, including An Indigenous Peoples' History of the United States and The Great Sioux Nation which was the fundamental document at the first international conference on Indigenous peoples of the Americas, held at the United Nations' headquarters in Geneva. Nikkita Oliver is a Seattle-based creative, community organizer, abolitionist, educator, and attorney. Working at the intersections of arts, law, education, and community organizing she strives to create experiences which draw us closer to our humanity.   The B.I.STANDER Podcast is a conversational podcast unique to Bainbridge Island and Seattle that covers culture, current events, humor, music, sports, technology, politics, island activities, environment, quality of life issues, wellness and just about everything else. The intent is to introduce interesting people, ideas, and conversations. We are not perfect and that's OK! Thank you for your understanding.  Our Podcast is brought to you by: Eagle Harbor Insurance Blue Canary Great Northern Electric Office Expats  Follow us on Facebook and Instagram Listen on Spotify, PlayerFM, Itunes, TuneIN, Castbox, and more! Music performed by Band of Steves of The Island Music Guild. Music performed by Ralph Reign 206-780-6911 lessons@islandmusic.org  *additional sound effects from https://www.zapsplat.com  

The gang is back and they brought Nikkita Oliver back to the studio to talk Smacktivism aka gently nudging your allies out of their problematic stances. Well, that's the nice way to put it. But this is all from a place of love. We swear. Plus we got some tidbits like the thing with Kyrie Irving, and a few others. Dive in and enjoy!

A special conversation with journalist, activist, organizer, and all around fascinating Seattleite, Dae Shik Kim Hawkins Jr. We talk about the political climate in the wake of the Employee Head Tax repeal, marginalization (in its many forms), the uncredited impact of grassroots movements, Nikkita Oliver, and the power of billionaires in local politics.

This episode we're joined by one of our favorite people in Seattle. Lawyer, Boxer, Mayoral Candidate, Poet, Teacher...we could keep going. You should dig in, find out about what's really happening to communities in Seattle, how boxing kept Nikkita from getting thrown out of law school and a lot more sparkling jewels of wisdom.

Nikkita Oliver is a lawyer, educator, artist, activist, boxer, former Seattle mayoral candidate and so much more. We discuss her journey growing up in Indiana, fighting for equity and justice and what's next. NIkkita is a graduate of the University of Washington's Law School and Masters of Education programs and received her bachelors from Seattle Pacific University. Nikkita Olivers Social Media & Web: facebook.com/konikkita/ twitter.com/nikkitaoliver instagram.com/nikkitaoliver/ No Blueprint & AmbassadorStories Social Media: instagram.com/ambassadorstories/ twitter.com/AMBStories facebook.com/NoBlueprintPodcast/ ambassadorstoriesllc@gmail.com Support + Merch paypal.me/AmbassadorStories patreon.com/AmbassadorStories ambassadorstories.bigcartel.com/ Official Websites: NoBlueprintPodcast.com/ AmbassadorStories.com/

Nikkita Oliver is a lawyer, educator, artist, activist, boxer, former Seattle mayoral candidate and so much more. We discuss her journey growing up in Indiana, fighting for equity and justice and what's next. NIkkita is a graduate of the University of Washington's Law School and Masters of Education programs and received her bachelors from Seattle Pacific University. Nikkita Olivers Social Media & Web: facebook.com/konikkita/ twitter.com/nikkitaoliver instagram.com/nikkitaoliver/ No Blueprint & AmbassadorStories Social Media: instagram.com/ambassadorstories/ twitter.com/AMBStories facebook.com/NoBlueprintPodcast/ ambassadorstoriesllc@gmail.com Support + Merch paypal.me/AmbassadorStories patreon.com/AmbassadorStories ambassadorstories.bigcartel.com/ Official Websites: NoBlueprintPodcast.com/ AmbassadorStories.com/

Nikkita is a Seattle-based writer, teaching artist, attorney, and organizer. Her writing has been published in the South Seattle Emerald, Crosscut, the Establishment, Last Real Indians, The Seattle Weekly, and the Stranger. Oliver holds a J.D. and Masters of Education from the University of Washington. She is also the case manager for Creative Justice, an arts-based alternative to incarceration, and has worked for arts organizations such as Writers in the Schools and Arts Corp. Nikkita is one of the Seattle Mets 2018 50 Most Influential Women in Seattle, and the recipient of the 2018 UW Women's Center Woman of Courage Award, 2018 UW Evan's School of Public Policy NOW (Network of Womxn) Award, 2017 City Arts Artists of the Year, Gender Justice Power Award (2017), Seattle King County NAACP President's Leadership Award (2017), Columbia Legal Services Imagine Justice Visionary of the Year (2017), the University of Washington Women's Law Caucus Outstanding Achievement as a Young Lawyer Award (2017), the Seattle Office of Civil Rights Artist Human Rights Leader Award (2015), and the 2014 Seattle Poetry Slam Grand Champion. She has opened for Cornel West and Chuck D of Public Enemy and performed on The Late Night Show with Stephen Colbert. She is also the first political candidate of the Seattle Peoples Party; running for Mayor of Seattle in 2017 where she finished in 3rd (of 21 of candidates).

On this edition of The Way with Anoa, Mayoral Candidate Nikkita Oliver talked with Anoa about her motivation for running as well as the importance of taking advantage of opportunities outside the two party system. The People's Party platform and campaign process have been community led and organized, serving as a potential model for community-based action and electoral involvement at the local level. Nikkita shares about balancing regular life duties such as full-time work, with running for citywide office. One thing is clear, this is a strong effort by a collective of engaged organizers and community folks to create sustainable change not just by changing who serves as Mayor but how the office itself is run. Looking forward to seeing what happens next. Read more about the People's Party and Why Nikkita is their candidate here: https://seattlepeoplesparty.com/why-we-are-running Tune in and Share!

This week on text.soul.culture, Shauna Gauthier gets to know artist, attorney, and community organizer Nikkita Oliver. Nikkita shares about her family of origin, the stories we choose to tell, and the difference between between natural resilience and forced resilience.

August 1 was the primary election and we've been watching several races here at the Wire, including the crowded race to become the next mayor of Seattle. So Tuesday night, we sent a team of reporters to four election night parties, which just happened to be the four candidates in the lead at the end of the night: Jenny Durkan (31.6%), Cary Moon (15.6%), Nikkita Oliver (13.9%), and Jessyn Farrell (11.8%). Our reporters talked with candidates and their supporters before and after the preliminary results. But with the results not final until August 15, we'll be checking the results for this race, and the other elections in Washington until then.

Who's got the edge after Seattle's historic mayoral primary? This week, The Overcast brings a snap analysis of front-runner Jenny Durkan, and her probable November rivals, Cary Moon or Nikkita Oliver. Also, why did former Mayor Mike McGinn flop so hard? Support independent journalism: www.seattletimes.com/subscribe

DeRay sits down in person on his birthday to discuss the news with Brittany, Sam and Clint. Andy Slavitt joins again this week for brief health care updates. DeRay talks at length with Governor McAuliffe about restoration of voting rights, the Governor’s biggest regrets, and a fiery conversation around voter apathy. Nikkita Oliver, Seattle mayoral candidate, joins to share more about why she’s one of 21 candidates in Seattle.

Mint Mama takes over once again and brings the women back in to shush the men and get down to the business of recentering some energy on the divine half of the equation. She's joined by a panel really sharp ladies, including Seattle Mayoral candidate Nikkita Oliver.

Two local politics experts, Monisha Harrell and Marco Lowe, map out the contours of Seattle's scorching-hot race for mayor. Will Bob Hasegawa's public-bank concept catch fire? Will young voters turn out for Nikkita Oliver? Will Ed Murray re-enter the race? This week's episode was recorded in KNKX 88.5's Seattle studio.

Gyasi and Wes are joined by the incomparable Dream Hampton: author, organizer, activist, hip hop head. Along with Ms. Hampton Seattle mayoral candidate Nikkita Oliver is back in the building, along with Seattle rapper and artist Gabriel Teodros.

Nikkita Oliver explains why she wants to become Seattle's mayor. But first, Seattle Times reporters Jim Brunner and Dan Beekman analyze the state of the race, including former Mayor Mike McGinn's comeback bid and the latest news on child sexual abuse allegations against Mayor Ed Murray.

With the crew on a much deserved rest week, we bring you a special re-air of our Womxn's March episode with a number of really strong, powerful ladies, including Seattle's next mayor, Nikkita Oliver.

Gyasi, Wes and Minty are joined by Seattle Mayoral Candidate Nikkita Oliver, who is challenging the status quo by taking on incumbent Ed Murray to become the first woman of color (and first woman in 91 years) to hold the position of Mayor in Seattle.

In the wake of the historic womxn's marches across the country, the womxn take over Breakdances With Wolves. Resident Diva Minty Longearth is joined by a number of prominent organizers and fighers, including Deborah Parker, Colleen Echo Hawk and Nikkita Oliver.