Podcast appearances and mentions of Christian Wiman

Maria Bowler—author, coach, and host of the Make Human podcast–is back for the third time! This time our conversation focuses on creativity, embodiment, and the sacred work of becoming more fully human.  Maria shares her journey of launching a new medium, the transition from writing books to podcasting. She also reflects on the difference between creating from the mind and creating from a place of deeper presence, sharing how movement, conversation, and community have become essential parts of her creative practice. Maria introduces a poem that met her during a season of heartbreak and spiritual upheaval. Christian Wiman's "And I Said to My Soul, Be Loud" became a companion that invited her beyond fear, control, and self-reliance into a deeper awareness of God's presence.  Together we remember how works of art often find us exactly when we need them most, becoming unexpected gateways to healing, hope, and transformation. Resources & Links: Podcast: Make Human Book: Making Time by Maria Bowler Poem: "And I Said to My Soul, Be Loud" by Christian Wiman Website: www.mariabowler.com Leave a review of Art Is How God Loves Us on Amazon and Goodreads Book Launch Events I'd love to hear about the works of art that have become thin places in your own life. In fact, we are doing a call for guest-post submissions over on Substack. You can learn more and submit yours by visiting: https://artistsforjoy.org/artsopendoor  

We were made by a Maker to be makers. Bruce Herman joins Evan Rosa to diagnose the quiet illness of a passive consumer culture that trains us to sit in front of screens and scroll and take, rather than make. “When we're not making something, we're not whole. We're not healthy.“ His cure is stubbornly ordinary: go make a loaf of bread, grab a stick and start carving, make a good meal or a good cocktail for the person visiting you—anything is resistance to this hypnotic, passive culture. From episode 216 of the podcast, in this segment, Herman traces what it means to receive art not as a consumer but through submission—not master and slave, but subject to subject, that vulnerable openness that lets a poem or a painting change your life. He reflects on making as human wholeness, the difference between art and info-tainment, why suffering can rip us open to beauty (from Walker Percy's writing to Christian Wiman's poetry), Rilke's charge that “you must change your life,“ hospitality as the ultimate act of art, and Herman's closing counsel to make out of love, not fear. Episode Highlights We are in relationship, and we were made by a Maker to be makers. If we let that go somehow and we become mere consumers, I think we begin to enter into some kind of illness of one sort or another. When we're not making something, we're not whole. We're not healthy. And I don't want to make an idol out of health either, but I do think our culture is unhealthy right now. We think of it as, we're discerning buyers. But the fact is we're being turned into very passive creatures. One of the best things you can do is go make a loaf of bread. Go out and grab a stick and start carving it. Anything is resistance to this sort of hypnotic passive culture. If you want to really receive what a poem is communicating, you have to submit to it. You have to let yourself go and enter into what might feel like a bad risk of being changed. Not submit in a sense that I'm a master and you're my slave. It's more like you're a subject and I'm a subject. Mutual submission. We're so guarded so much of the time that it takes something catastrophic to open us up again. Do away with the nonsense that you're not an artist. You can't help it. You were made by a Maker to be a maker. End of story. The ultimate act of art is hospitality, where you're welcoming someone in, to make something beautiful for them. Challenge the bad news with a recognition that daily kindnesses are being poured out everywhere, on every street. Don't give in to fear, because it's not a basis for anything good. About Bruce Herman Bruce Herman is a painter, writer, and educator whose work has been shown in more than 150 exhibitions across the United States and internationally, and held in collections including the Vatican Museums in Rome, the Cincinnati Museum of Fine Arts, and the Grunewald Print Collection of the Hammer Museum in Los Angeles. He taught at Gordon College for nearly four decades, where he founded the art department and held the Lothlórien Distinguished Chair in Fine Arts. His books include “Through Your Eyes“ and “Ordinary Saints,“ and he was a collaborator on the touring “QU4RTETS“ project with Makoto Fujimura, Christopher Theofanidis, and Jeremy Begbie. His most recent book, “Makers by Nature: Letters from a Master Painter on Faith, Hope, and Art,“ was published by IVP Academic in 2025. Helpful Links and Resources Makers by Nature, Bruce Herman's 2025 book from IVP Academic: https://www.ivpress.com/makers-by-nature Bruce Herman's website and painting archive: https://www.bruceherman.com Bruce Herman, artist bio and background: https://www.bruceherman.com/about Archaic Torso of Apollo by Rainer Maria Rilke (“You must change your life“), trans. Stephen Mitchell: https://poets.org/poem/archaic-torso-apollo Real Presences by George Steiner, on courtesy and hospitality in art: https://press.uchicago.edu/ucp/books/book/chicago/R/bo3684420.html Christian Wiman: https://poetryfoundation.org/poets/christian-wiman QU4RTETS, the collaborative project on T. S. Eliot's Four Quartets: https://www.bruceherman.com/series Show Notes Made to make We are in relationship; identity begins there, not in isolation Makers by nature—letting the maker-impulse go tips us toward illness, moral, mental, and emotional Wholeness and health—the claim that not-making leaves us unwell, without idolizing health Consumer culture—the commercial aim to sell, and to keep us passive in front of screens Discerning buyers, or passive creatures? The illusion of control while being trained to take Screens and scrolling Political theater and infotainment—very little real journalism left, mostly consumer entertainment Neil Postman and amusing ourselves to death as the frame for the diagnosis Making as resistance—bake bread, carve a stick, do anything against the hypnotic pull Reception as submission—a word out of fashion, reclaimed away from enslavement Mutual submission—the erotic analogy, and desire's corruption in the sexual sins To receive a poem you must risk being changed Rilke's Grecian torso and the charge, you must change your life Subject to subject, not master and slave Walker Percy's museum story—a painting that blazed into life, then went quiet Bringing a friend to re-enter the original encounter vicariously The workman through the skylight—catastrophe reopens what habit had closed Guardedness—why it can take suffering to break us open Christian Wiman—cancer, poetry, and being ripped open toward receptivity You might be changed, and it might not be what you wanted; the risk of real encounter Make from love, not fear Do away with the nonsense that you're not an artist Everyday making—a loaf, a meal, a good cocktail, hospitality Hospitality as the ultimate art; George Steiner's Real Presences and courtesia Beauty can be complex, not merely pretty Fear-mongers left and right—and why not to listen Daily kindnesses—the neighbor, the shoveled driveway, the half-decent casserole Welcome to the festival; let the festival begin #BruceHerman #MakersByNature #ForTheLifeOfTheWorld #FaithAndArt #TheologyOfMaking #ArtAndFaith #Creativity #Hospitality #MakeNotConsume #YaleFaithAndCulture

If you've struggled with questions about God, suffering, or whether faith can make sense of the world's brokenness, you're not alone. Poet Christian Wiman joins Amy Julia Becker to talk about pain, joy, doubt, and the lifelong hunger for God. Together, they explore a faith honest enough to hold both questions and hope.S10 E10:00:00 The Genesis of Glimmerings04:41 Navigating Differences in Faith12:24 The Role of Personal Encounters18:45 The Intersection of Suffering and Longing for God23:33 The Relationship Between Love, Suffering, and Hope36:37 Sustaining Faith in Everyday Life39:53 Cutting Through the Noise: Faith Beyond DifferencesMENTIONED IN THIS EPISODE:Glimmerings: Letters on Faith Between a Poet and a Theologian by Miroslav Volf and Christian Wiman My Bright Abyss by Christian WimanMiroslav Volf on Reimagining the Good Life: The Cost of Ambition_SUBSCRIBE to Amy Julia's Substack: amyjuliabecker.substack.comWATCH this conversation on YouTube: Amy Julia Becker on YouTubeJOIN the conversation on Instagram: @amyjuliabeckerLISTEN to more episodes: amyjuliabecker.com/shows/_ABOUT OUR GUEST:Christian Wiman is the Clement-Muehl Professor of the Arts at Yale Divinity School. He is the author, editor, or translator of fifteen books, including Zero at the Bone: Fifty Entries Against Despair and Hammer Is the Prayer: Selected Poems.  His work appears regularly in Harper's, The New Yorker, and Commonweal.More about Chris: https://divinity.yale.edu/profile/christian-wimanGlimmerings: Letters on Faith Between a Poet and a TheologianWe want to hear your thoughts. Send us a text!Connect with me:InstagramFacebookYouTubeWebsiteThanks for listening! 

For twenty years, Christian Wiman has lived with a rare, incurable cancer. In the fall of 2022, during a stretch when the illness was especially bad, he wrote to his friend and Yale colleague Miroslav Volf: “I don't know what faith means anymore. I'm a 56-year-old with a pile of books behind me and an experimental bone marrow transplant ahead of me, and I don't know what faith means.” That letter became the seed of an extended correspondence between the poet and the theologian, now published as Glimmerings: Letters on Faith between a Poet and a Theologian. In this special collaboration with Arc Magazine, editor Mark Oppenheimer sits down with Volf and Wiman to unpack the letters that grew out of their long friendship and years of walking together through New Haven. They discuss what it means to love God, why doubt and absence might be constitutive elements of faith and presence rather than its opposite, and how a terminal diagnosis changed what each of them was willing to say and how freely they said it. They also trace the thinkers who shaped their thinking along the way, from Simone Weil's account of attention to Etty Hillesum's wartime writing, to Abraham Joshua Heschel's theology of the prophets, and they wrestle openly with where their understandings of Jesus Christ converge and diverge. Along the way, Wiman reflects on writing from a hospital room at Massachusetts General, on discovering that his fear was never death itself but the fear of dying without God, and on why grief, not fear, is what remains even after that fear falls away. Episode Highlights I don't know what faith means anymore. I'm a 56-year-old with a pile of books behind me and an experimental bone marrow transplant ahead of me, and I don't know what faith means. I sometimes find it hard to think what it means to love God. I don't know how to love God. Faith is what matters. Belief seems to me a matter of the institution and ascending to creeds and things like that. I think most of my theological thinking is existentially motivated. It's motivated by the kind of inner logic of the trust in which I'm involved. Most of the books that I wrote, I've written for myself. I'm one of those writers who doesn't have an audience. There is grace in my life if I can just keep my eyes open enough to see it. His mistake in some ways lets him see that the world is right, that there's a rightness to the world. What becomes clear is one's longing for God. Everything is stripped away and very little else seems to matter. What I want most in my life is the presence of God. And I fear dying without that. Just being alone at the moment of death. I was worried that he won't have God in that situation of need because attention might be lacking. About Miroslav Volf and Christian Wiman Miroslav Volf is the Henry B. Wright Professor of Theology at Yale Divinity School and founding director of the Yale Center for Faith & Culture. He is the author of Exclusion and Embrace, the NYT bestseller Life Worth Living (with Ryan McAnnally-Linz and Matt Croasmun), The Cost of Ambition, and more than twenty other books. Christian Wiman is the Clement-Muehl Professor of Communication Arts at Yale Divinity School. He has written and edited numerous volumes of poetry. He has lived with a rare blood cancer, Waldenström macroglobulinemia, for more than twenty years, an experience he wrote about in his memoirs My Bright Abyss and Zero at the Bone. Helpful Links and Resources Glimmerings: Letters on Faith between a Poet and a Theologian, the book discussed in this episode: https://bookshop.org/p/books/glimmerings-letters-on-faith-between-a-poet-and-a-theologian-christian-wiman/1a13ad79a59080d1 Miroslav Volf, faculty bio at the Yale Center for Faith and Culture: https://faith.yale.edu/people/miroslav-volf Christian Wiman, faculty bio at the Yale Center for Faith and Culture: https://faith.yale.edu/people/christian-wiman Arc: Religion, Politics, Et Cetera, the magazine that co-produced this episode: https://arcmag.org/ John C. Danforth Center on Religion and Politics at Washington University in St. Louis: https://rap.wustl.edu/ My Bright Abyss, Christian Wiman's earlier memoir on faith and his cancer diagnosis: https://us.macmillan.com/books/9780374534370/mybrightabyss/ Miroslav Volf: Disagreeing With You Feels Like Disagreeing With Myself, a Christianity Today profile of the two friends (by Andrew Hendrixson): https://www.christianitytoday.com/2026/01/miroslav-volf-disagreeing-with-you-like-disagreeing-with-myself-christian-wiman/ Show Notes Summer break announcement, past-episode recap Special crossover episode with Arc Magazine Mark Oppenheimer, Arc's editor, hosts this conversation Origin story: a brief email exchange in fall 2022 Wiman's diagnosis, Waldenström macroglobulinemia, and a bone marrow transplant Twenty years of friendship, marked by weekly walks in New Haven The letter that started it: not knowing what faith means anymore What does it mean to love God? Faith versus belief: creeds compared to a personal relationship Doubt as a constitutive element of trust, not its opposite Absence and presence, sorrow and joy, held together Theology as existentially motivated rather than academic exercise Writing for an audience of one, and how that shapes honesty Whether a book contract changes how freely you write Simone Weil's idea that attention is what makes God present Disagreement over how central Jesus Christ is to each man's sense of God Volf's Pentecostal upbringing, Wiman's Southern Baptist roots Volf's sense of God as behind and underneath, not face to face Wiman's youthful epiphany and a memory of his grandmother's death A misread wildflower, a Richard Wilbur poem, grace found in error Shai Held's blurb and why Jewish thinkers rarely appear in Christian theology Etty Hillesum, her wartime diaries, her postcard thrown from the train Abraham Joshua Heschel's influence through Sabbath and The Prophets Heschel's idea that faith is fidelity to the moments you once had it A letter written from a hospital room at Massachusetts General Miroslav's fear that his letters carried condescension toward a friend in crisis Whether a cancer diagnosis changes the fear of death itself Grief, not fear, as what remains once the fear of dying is gone How the two friends met: through Volf's wife's poetry class Letter-writing as a lifelong practice for both men beyond this book #Glimmerings #MiroslavVolf #ChristianWiman #Faith #Doubt #Theology #YaleDivinitySchool #ArcMagazine Production Notes This podcast featured Christian Wiman and Miroslav Volf with Mark Oppenheimer Special thanks to David Sugarman and Arc Magazine Edited and Produced by Evan Rosa Hosted by Evan Rosa Production Assistance by Noah Senthil A Production of the Yale Center for Faith & Culture at Yale Divinity School https://faith.yale.edu/about Support For the Life of the World podcast by giving to the Yale Center for Faith & Culture: https://faith.yale.edu/give

As we come to the 250th celebration of America's founding, what is happening in our country? Pundits, writers, historians, political scientists, and average citizens are all trying to take stock of where we are as a nation. In this episode, we seek perspective by returning to the conversation between Mark Labberton and David Brooks immediately following the 2024 election, before the beginning of Trump's second term and all the events that have unfolded since. Whether you come to the 250th celebrating our national life, or questioning our national life; whether you're in support of what's happening currently in America, or whether you're overwhelmed by so much that you wish was different, may we give thanks. Thanks be to God for the place that we get to live, even as it's a place that is struggling to reach its ideals, and may we continue to pray and seek its welfare, its justice, its purpose, its fairness, and its equity. In this episode, Mark Labberton welcomes David Brooks (The Atlantic, formerly of The New York Times) for reflections about the 2024 General Election, the state of American politics, and how we got here. Together they discuss the multi-generational class divide; sources of alienation and distrust; how loss of faith and meaning influences political life; intellectual virtues of courage, firmness, humility, and flexibility; what it means to be a Republican in exile; the capacity for self-awareness and self-critique; and much more. Episode Highlights "In my opinion, Donald Trump is the wrong answer to the right question." "The flow of status and respect in this country has gone to people with elite credentials." "If you tell 51% of the country 'Your voices don't matter,' people are going to get upset." "Jesus was more a badass revolutionary than an Oxford don." "The world just loves a human being that's trying to act like Jesus." Helpful Links and Resources "Confessions of a Republican Exile" (The Atlantic): https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2024/10/trumpism-republican-party-exile-david-brooks/680243/ How to Know a Person: The Art of Seeing Others Deeply and Being Deeply Seen, by David Brooks: https://www.amazon.com/How-Know-Person-Seeing-Others/dp/059323006X My Bright Abyss: Meditation of a Modern Believer, by Christian Wiman: https://www.amazon.com/My-Bright-Abyss-Meditation-Believer/dp/0374534373 David Brooks's current writing at The Atlantic: https://www.theatlantic.com/author/david-brooks/ Brooks and Capehart, PBS NewsHour: https://www.pbs.org/newshour/tag/brooks-and-capehart About David Brooks David Brooks is staff writer for The Atlantic and is Presidential Senior Fellow at Yale Jackson School of Global Affairs. Prior to that he wrote for The New York Times for 22 years*.* He is author of How to Know a Person: The Art of Seeing Others Deeply and Being Deeply Seen; The Second Mountain: The Quest for a Moral Life; Bobos in Paradise: The New Upper Class and How They Got There; The Social Animal: The Hidden Sources of Love, Character, and Achievement, and is founder of Weave: The Social Fabric Project. Show Notes A spiritual or emotional crisis we're working out in American politics Should we blame inflation and economic factors? (Biden's Covid-19 overstimulation) Class divide is a generational thing High-school-educated voters are increasingly alienated from the Democratic Party Alienation and distrust is a multi-decade process Loss of Faith, Loss of Meaning, and the "Death of God" An exiled Republican "Confessions of a Republican Exile" (via The Atlantic): "A longtime conservative, alienated by Trumpism, tries to come to terms with life on the moderate edge of the Democratic Party." "I'm a Whig." ("Abraham Lincoln was a Whig.") Edmund Burke and epistemological modesty—"don't revolutionize something you don't understand." You should operate on society in the way you operate on your father, with care. Alexander Hamilton Whig tradition is unrepresented in contemporary American politics How David Brooks waffles between Democrat and Republican Isaiah Berlin: "At the rightward edge of the leftward tendency." "The capacity for self-critique" Matt Yglesias Humble, introspective, and "how did we get so out of touch?" Racism and sexism are not what's driving Trump voters "In my opinion, Donald Trump is the wrong answer to the right question." Mark Noll and America's use of the Bible: un-self-aware and un-self-critical Why is there more capacity for self-critique on the Democratic side? Jonathan Rauch and "Epistemic Regime": includes media, universities, scientific research, review process, etc. "There's still a core of people who believe 'if the evidence says x, you should say y.'" "The greatest victory in the history of the world." Intellectual Virtues: Courage, Firmness, Flexibility "Reality is constantly going to surprise you." 1980s Republicanism was more intellectually sophisticated Conservative book publishing *Liberal Fascism: The Secret History of the American Left, From Mussolini to the Politics of Change* by Jonah Goldberg How to Know a Person: The Art of Seeing Others Deeply and Being Deeply Seen by David Brooks "The Stacking Stereotype" "A redistribution of respect" (away from large swaths of America and to elites) "The flow of status and respect in this country has gone to people with elite credentials." "… almost no Trump supporters." "If you tell 51% of the country 'Your voices don't matter,' people are going to get upset." America changing beneath us High level of spiritual and moral authority and low level of intellectual confidence The moral teaching of the New Testament "People are unitary wholes." "I became a Christian around 2013." "Jesus was more a badass revolutionary than an Oxford don." C.S. Lewis and J.R.R. Tolkien's Christianity "What it's like to be in the claustrophobic mind of a narcissist." Aggression: a joyless way to see the faith What is needed? "I was a 50-year-old atheist." Christian Wiman (My Bright Abyss: Meditation of a Modern Believer): materialistic categories couldn't explain the world "If they made me pope of the evangelicals, which is a job that makes me shudder…" "Be not afraid." "The world just loves a human being that's trying to act like Jesus." David Brooks's teaching at Yale The Long Loneliness: The Autobiography of the Legendary Catholic Social Activist by Dorothy Day #Conversing #DavidBrooks #MarkLabberton #FaithAndPolitics #AmericanPolitics #HowToKnowAPerson #ChristianHumanism #Election2024 Production Credits Conversing is produced and distributed in partnership with Comment magazine and Fuller Seminary.

A poet who has lived two decades with incurable cancer on what faith sounds like when God feels more absent than present. Christian Wiman joins Mark Labberton to talk poetry, suffering, and friendship. "The presence of God, less so. I experience the absence more than the presence." In this episode with Mark Labberton, Wiman reflects on writing "Every Riven Thing" after a single church service, surviving a last-resort clinical trial, and the friendship behind his new book with Miroslav Volf. Together they discuss the paradox at the heart of poetry, grief that explodes into joy, and why joy asks something of us. They also weigh Heschel and Lewis's clarity, the friendless American male, and chance turned into destiny by constant choice. Episode Highlights "The presence of God, less so. I experience the absence more than the presence." "I would not let go of my despair, even though the poems were showing me something else." "Joy asks something of us on the other side." "The relief came from the communion between people." "I think that that was quite a shock to me to realize that we were each envying what the other had." About Christian Wiman Christian Wiman is a poet, essayist, editor, and translator, and the Clement-Muehl Professor of Communication Arts at Yale Divinity School, where he teaches religion and literature with the Yale Institute of Sacred Music. From 2003 to 2013 he edited Poetry, the oldest magazine of verse in the English-speaking world, tripling its circulation and earning two National Magazine Awards. He is the author, editor, or translator of more than a dozen books, including Every Riven Thing, the memoirs My Bright Abyss and He Held Radical Light, and the genre-blending Zero at the Bone. A former Guggenheim Fellow with two honorary doctorates, he has written candidly about faith and a long struggle with incurable cancer. Helpful Links and Resources Glimmerings: Letters on Faith Between a Poet and a Theologian https://bookshop.org/p/books/glimmerings-letters-on-faith-between-a-poet-and-a-theologian-christian-wiman/1a13ad79a59080d1 My Bright Abyss: Meditation of a Modern Believer https://bookshop.org/p/books/my-bright-abyss-meditation-of-a-modern-believer-christian-wiman/dcebbe4f049250d8 Zero at the Bone: Fifty Entries Against Despair https://penguinbookshop.com/book/9780374603458 Show Notes Author, editor, translator of a dozen-plus books Twenty years living with an incurable cancer diagnosis Editing Poetry magazine amid Ruth Lilly's $200 million gift From editor to Yale Divinity School on one bold letter A last-resort clinical trial: "I definitely thought it was over" "Every Riven Thing" written in under an hour after a first church service Inventing a new poetic form on the spot Compression and paradox: "a great poem is irreducible" "Bittersweet": "all my sour sweet days I will lament and love" Simone Weil's Gravity and Grace and Marilynne Robinson's Housekeeping Absence and presence: "I experience the absence more than the presence" My Bright Abyss and the chapter "God's Truth is Life" "From a Window": grief that suddenly explodes into birds and joy "I would not let go of my despair, even though the poems were showing me something else" Zadie Smith and C.S. Lewis on joy too destabilizing to want "joy asks something of us on the other side" The rare clarity of Heschel and Lewis, marrying reason and imagination Glimmerings: eighteen months of letters with Miroslav Volf "After angels" and a transforming walk near the Div School "the relief came from the communion between people" Friendship and the friendless American male "we were each envying what the other had" West Texas: an expanse "wide open and annihilating, crushing" Ricoeur: chance turned into a destiny by virtue of a constant choice #ChristianWiman #MarkLabberton #Conversing #PoetryAndFaith #Glimmerings #MyBrightAbyss #FaithAndDoubt #MiroslavVolf Production Credits Conversing is produced and distributed in partnership with Comment Magazine and Fuller Seminary.

Poet Christian Wiman and theologian Miroslav Volf wrote each other letters in which they wrestled honestly with the big questions: what does it mean to love God? What is faith?  Letter writing deepened the friendship between these two intellectuals as they wrestled with their questions about faith and the nature of God.  The longings they discuss speak to our deepest needs for transcendence and connection.  If we're going to transcend muffled lives and cut through the noise, we need a sharp, almost brutal honesty. These letters were published in Glimmerings: Letters on Faith Between a Poet and a Theologian. The book is named after a Seamus Heaney line: “glimmerings are what the soul's composed of”.  Miroslav Volf is a Croatian-American theologian Miroslav Volf is the Henry B. Wright Professor of Theology at Yale Divinity School and founder and director of the Yale Center for Faith and Culture. Christian Wiman is a poet, translator, and essayist from West Texas. He served as editor of Poetry magazine from 2003 to 2013. Discussed in this episode:   Jewish theologian Abraham Joshua Heschel  Veni Creator by Czesław Miłosz Zero at the Bone by Christian Wiman With & For is a podcast of the Thrive Center, an applied research center that exists to catalyze a movement of human thriving, with and for others through spiritual health. Learn more at thethrivecenter.org. Follow us on Instagram @thrivecenter Follow us on LinkedIn @thethrivecenter Dr. Pamela Ebstyne King hosts With & For, and is the Executive Director of the Thrive Center and the Peter L. Benson Professor of Applied Developmental Science at the School of Psychology & Marriage and Family Therapy at Fuller Seminary. Follow her @drpamking. About With & For Host: Pam King Senior Director and Producer: Jill Westbrook Operations Manager: Lauren Kim Social Media & Graphic Designer: Wren Juergensen Senior Producer: Clare Wiley Executive Producer: Jakob Lewis Produced by Great Feeling Studios Special thanks to the team at Fuller Studio and Fuller Seminary's School of Psychology & Marriage and Family Therapy. The podcast was made possible through the support from the John Templeton Foundation. The opinions expressed in this publication are those of the host and guests, and do not necessarily reflect the views of the John Templeton Foundation.

“Really? You have never felt overwhelmed by, and in some way inadequate to, an experience in your life, have never felt something in yourself staking a claim beyond your self, some wordless mystery straining through words to reach you? Never? Religion is not made of these moments; religion is the means of making these moments part of your life rather than merely radical intrusions so foreign and perhaps even fearsome that you can't even acknowledge their existence afterward. Religion is what you do with these moments of over-mastery in your life.” –Christian Wiman, My Bright Abyss Support the showContact Village Presbyterian Churchvillagepres.orgcommunications@villagepres.org913-262-4200Have a prayer request?  congregational-care@villagepres.orgFacebook @villagepresInstagram @villagepreschurchYouTube @villagepresbyterianchurchTo join in the mission and ministry of Village Church, go to villagepres.org/givingWe are a Presbyterian (USA) congregation located in the greater Kansas City area. Join us any Sunday for worship at our Mission Campus in Prairie Village at 9, 11 a.m., and 4 p.m., or at our Antioch Campus in south Overland Park at 10 a.m. Services are live-streamed at villagepres.org/online and on YouTube.

Miroslav Volf is back, and this time he brought his friend — poet and theologian Christian Wiman — and their book Glimmerings, collection of letters exchanged over years of friendship that moves from the problem of religious language to the hiddenness of God to what it means to trust without being able to specify what you're trusting toward. It's one of the more unusual and quietly devastating books I've read in a while, and the conversation was every bit as good. In it we discuss... The origin of their friendship and the letter exchange that became Glimmerings Why big words like faith, grace, and redemption slip free from meaning — and why that's a theological problem, not just a poetic one Attention, divine agency, and the debate between active receptivity and God's ontological priority Christian writing letters from a hospital room during an experimental bone marrow transplant — and what he felt, and didn't feel, about God's presence The hiddenness of God versus Christ hidden in the faces of non-Christian friends The cross, the resurrection, and why one is visceral and the other remains mostly imagination The risk of faith, William James's mountain climber, and why Wallace Stevens kept pointing toward a further leap The "masters of suspicion" and why intellectual culture rewards doubt more than hope The hard sayings of Jesus — the passages that act like shards of glass, and what it means to park them rather than tame them Where two or three are gathered — and whether that was always a warning about what happens at five hundred You can WATCH the conversation on YouTube Miroslav Volf is the Henry B. Wright Professor of Systematic Theology at Yale Divinity School and founder of the Yale Center for Faith and Culture. Born in Croatia and shaped by the former Yugoslavia, his theology has always been grounded in lived encounter with violence, nationalism, and the misuse of religious language. Previous podcasts with Miroslav Faith in the Public Square in the Era of Trump. When Neighbors Turn on Neighbors Christian Wiman is a poet, essayist, and editor widely regarded as one of the most important American religious writers of his generation. He is the author of My Bright Abyss — a memoir of faith written in the shadow of a rare blood cancer diagnosis — and multiple acclaimed poetry collections. He edited Poetry magazine for a decade and now teaches at the Yale Institute for Sacred Music and Yale Divinity School. Theology Beer Camp 2026 — The God-Podcalypse — hits Kansas City October 8–10, exactly one month before the election. Thirty scholars (Ilia Delio, Cornel West, Diana Butler Bass, Gary Dorrien, and a stack more), thirty God-pods, four post-apocalyptic stages, and the community everyone keeps telling us is the real reason they come back. Come find your people at ⁠Theology Beer Camp ONLINE CLASS - Theology for Troublemakers: Christian Social Ethics from the Margins⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ This 6-week online course, led by Dr. Gary Dorrien and Dr. Aaron Stauffer, recovers the radical tradition of Christian social ethics — from Reverdy Ransom and Reinhold Niebuhr to James Cone and the Welfare Rights Movement — and asks what faithfulness demands of us right now. Weekly lectures, live Q&A conversations, guest lecturers, and an online community included.

What if picking up a book could become a form of prayer? In this conversation, host John Terrill sits down with Jeff Crosby — publisher, author, and lifelong champion of the written word — to talk about his book World of Wonders: A Spirituality of Reading (Paraclete Press, 2025).Jeff brings more than four decades in bookselling and publishing to a deeply personal question: why should we read? His own reading life began with Sunday comics in the Indianapolis Star and baseball biographies, until one book — The Admiral's Daughter, heard about on Good Morning America — “flipped a switch” and opened, in his words, “this idea of a world of wonder.” From there, a career took shape: 13 years as a bookseller, 24 years at InterVarsity Press (ultimately as its publisher), and now as president of ECPA, the trade association of Christian publishing.In this episode, John and Jeff discuss:How a liturgy before reading — drawn from Douglas McKelvey's Every Moment Holy — can transform how we approach any bookWhy reading diverse voices (across gender, ethnicity, and genre) is a pathway toward becoming more human and more ChristlikeThe practice of rereading: how books like Markings by Dag Hammarskjöld and Kent Haruf's novels serve as lifelong companionsThree practical strategies for becoming a wiser reader — including the one question Jeff asks almost everyone he meetsWhy Jeff's bookstore friend was counseled to fast from books — and what that revealed about his relationship to scriptureHow reading together (from team check-ins at ECPA to hosting 75–100 person “Books in Nature” dinners) transforms communityJeff's next book: The Spirit in the Sky — on music, spirituality, and 17 artists from Paul Simon to Marvin Gaye (Bloomsbury, October 2025)Jeff recorded this conversation the day before his mother's memorial service, turning to the Psalms and a poetry collection called Joy (edited by Christian Wiman, Yale University Press) as companions in grief. His witness here is as much lived as written.Guest BioJeff Crosby is the president and CEO of ECPA (Evangelical Christian Publishers Association) and has worked in bookselling and publishing for more than 40 years — from running a Lagos bookstore near Indiana University to 24 years at InterVarsity Press to leading the trade association of Christian publishing. He is the author of World of Wonders: A Spirituality of Reading (Paraclete Press, 2025) and The Language of the Soul. His writing has appeared in Publishers Weekly, Books & Culture, CRUX Journal, and other publications. He lives in the Chicago area with his wife, author Cindy Crosby. Resources MentionedJeff's website: jeffreycrosby.netWorld of Wonders: A Spirituality of Reading — Jeff Crosby (Paraclete Press, 2025)The Spirit in the Sky: The Power of Music and Our Search for Graceland — Jeff Crosby (Bloomsbury, October 2025)Every Moment Holy — Douglas McKelveyMarkings — Dag HammarskjöldReading for the Love of God — Jessica Hooten Wilson (Brazos Press)Joy (poetry anthology) — edited by Christian Wiman (Yale University Press)The Meaning of Your Life — Arthur C. BrooksSend us Fan MailCONNECT WITH USSubscribe to The UpWords Podcast wherever you listen to podcasts and visit slbf.org/studio to learn more about our work at the intersection of faith, the academy, and the marketplace.This episode was created by the SLBF STUDIO at Upper House.Produced by Daniel Johnson and Dave ConourEdited by Dave Conour

What is the relationship between consciousness and the divine? How are poetry and faith connected? Why write poetry? We present an hour with Colin and poet Christian Wiman live from Yale Divinity School, where they discuss poetry, consciousness, faith, awe, and whatever else is on their minds. GUEST: Christian Wiman: Author, editor, and translator of many books including, most recently, Glimmerings: Letters on Faith Between a Poet and a Theologian. He is Clement-Muehl Professor of Communication Arts at the Yale Institute of Sacred Music and Yale Divinity School The Colin McEnroe Show is available as a podcast on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Amazon Music, TuneIn, Listen Notes, or wherever you get your podcasts. Subscribe and never miss an episode! Subscribe to The Noseletter, an email compendium of merriment, secrets, and ancient wisdom brought to you by The Colin McEnroe Show. Join the conversation on Facebook and Twitter. Colin McEnroe, Maegn Boone, Jonathan McNicol, Robyn Doyon-Aitken, Katrice Kemble, and Dylan Reyes contributed to this show. Special thanks to Yale Divinity School and Dean Gregory Sterling, Tom Krattenmaker, Sachin Ramabhadran, Kit Heeley, and Campbell Harmon.Support the show: http://www.wnpr.org/donateSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Religion can help provide answers to many questions in life -  big and small.  And in doing so, give a sense of security and understanding of the world and our place in it. But what happens when doubt starts to creep in?  As more and more people leave organized religion, is doubt the cause, or could learning how to embrace doubt actually be the answer to the modern crisis of faith? In the first of this special two part series on doubt and spirituality, we'll talk with author, poet and lecturer Christian Wiman, about what it means to have certainty that God exists, while also harboring major doubts about how to approach the divine.  And we'll talk to psychologist Julie Exline about how doubt tends to affect those who experience it, and her recommendations for constructive ways to embrace uncertainty for spiritual and personal growth.Christian Wiman is a Professor at Yale University and is an author and editor of numerous publications. His most recent books include My Bright Abyss and Glimmerings: Letters on Faith Between a Poet and a Theologian. To engage with more of his work, click here. Julie Exline,Ph.D. is the Research Director and Bonner-Lowry Professor of Psychiatry and Neurobehavioral Sciences at the University of Virginia School of Medicine.  

In this special Easter edition of the Russell Moore Show, Russell draws from past episodes to explore how the resurrection of Jesus reframes everything: from scientific belief and intellectual doubt to embodied life, unexpected joy, and suffering. Featuring clips from episodes with Francis Collins, Michael Wear, David Taylor, Christian Wiman, Kate Bowler, and Tim Keller, this episode draws out our Christian hope: if Christ is raised, then reality itself is different.  Across stories of cancer diagnoses, intellectual conversions, poetic insight, and quiet moments of joy, the episode insists on a central truth: the resurrection is not metaphor. And if it happened, then even in grief, uncertainty, and death—everything is going to be okay. Keep up with Russell: Sign up for the weekly newsletter where Russell shares thoughtful takes on big questions, offers a Christian perspective on life, and recommends books and music he's enjoying. Submit a question for the show at questions@russellmoore.com  Subscribe to the Christianity Today Magazine: Special offer for listeners of The Russell Moore Show: Click here for 25% off a subscription. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

What happens when a poet and a theologian decide to write letters to each other about faith? In this episode, I sit down with Christian Wiman and Miroslav Volf to discuss their book Glimmerings and talk about the language we use for God and why it so often falls short, the tension between God's presence and absence, what the Book of Job has to say about suffering, and whether faith can survive, even deepen, without easy answers. It's a conversation about holding paradox, paying attention, and what it looks like to keep believing in the middle of real life.Miroslav Volf is the Henry B. Wright Professor of Theology at Yale Divinity School and the founding director of the Yale Center for Faith & Culture. His books include Exclusion & Embrace: A Theological Exploration of Identity, Otherness, and Reconciliation, winner of the 2002 Grawemeyer Award in Religion. His Gifford Lectures (2025) are titled Amor Mundi: God and the Character of Our Relation to the World.Christian Wiman is the Clement-Muehl Professor of the Arts at Yale Divinity School. He is the author, editor, or translator of fifteen books, including Zero at the Bone: Fifty Entries Against Despair and Hammer Is the Prayer: Selected Poems. His work appears regularly in Harper's, The New Yorker, and Commonweal.Miroslav & Chris' Book:Glimmerings: Letters on Faith Between a Poet and a TheologianChris' Recommendations:The Banquet YearsMiroslav's Recommendation:The Cost of DiscipleshipConnect with Joshua: jjohnson@shiftingculturepodcast.comGo to www.shiftingculturepodcast.com to interact and donate. Every donation helps to produce more podcasts for you to enjoy.Follow on Facebook, Instagram, Twitter, Threads, Bluesky or YouTubeConsider Giving to the podcast and to the ministry that my wife and I do around the world. Just click on the support the show link belowGet Your Sidekick Support the show

Narrative verse, or poems that tell a story, has existed for millennia, yet the mode of writing has been neglected by literary publishers, editors, and critics in our own time. This anthology reestablishes the vital relationship of narrative verse to a contemporary readership of poetry. It presents a wide range of specimens from twenty-eight poets who were born since World War II and who published their narrative poems over the past fifty years. Featured poets include Rita Dove, Christian Wiman, Alberto Rios, A. E. Stallings, Bob Dylan, Daniel Mark Epstein, David Mason, Mary Jo Salter, and Dana Gioia, and other exemplary practitioners of the form. In these poems, character, plot, and dialogue turn up as readily as in prose fiction. As John Dryden wrote of Chaucer's works, “Here is God's plenty.” Anecdote, fable, myth, biography, thriller, Western, ghost story―these are among the many different genres of tale collected by poet-critic Sunil Iyengar, who introduces each poet and the anthology itself. Sunil Iyengar is the author of a poetry chapbook, A Call from the Shallows (Finishing Line Press). His poems and/or book reviews have appeared in such periodicals as The New Criterion, Literary Matters, New Verse Review, PN Review, Essays in Criticism, The American Scholar, The Hopkins Review, Los Angeles Review of Books, and The Washington Post. He lives outside Washington, D.C., where he works as an arts research director. Daniel Moran's writing about literature and film can be found on Pages and Frames. He earned his B.A. and M.A. in English from Rutgers University and his Ph.D. in History from Drew University. The author of Creating Flannery O'Connor: Her Critics, Her Publishers, Her Readers, he teaches research and writing and co-hosts the long-running podcast Fifteen-Minute Film Fanatics, found here on the New Books Network. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices Support our show by becoming a premium member! https://newbooksnetwork.supportingcast.fm/new-books-network

Narrative verse, or poems that tell a story, has existed for millennia, yet the mode of writing has been neglected by literary publishers, editors, and critics in our own time. This anthology reestablishes the vital relationship of narrative verse to a contemporary readership of poetry. It presents a wide range of specimens from twenty-eight poets who were born since World War II and who published their narrative poems over the past fifty years. Featured poets include Rita Dove, Christian Wiman, Alberto Rios, A. E. Stallings, Bob Dylan, Daniel Mark Epstein, David Mason, Mary Jo Salter, and Dana Gioia, and other exemplary practitioners of the form. In these poems, character, plot, and dialogue turn up as readily as in prose fiction. As John Dryden wrote of Chaucer's works, “Here is God's plenty.” Anecdote, fable, myth, biography, thriller, Western, ghost story―these are among the many different genres of tale collected by poet-critic Sunil Iyengar, who introduces each poet and the anthology itself. Sunil Iyengar is the author of a poetry chapbook, A Call from the Shallows (Finishing Line Press). His poems and/or book reviews have appeared in such periodicals as The New Criterion, Literary Matters, New Verse Review, PN Review, Essays in Criticism, The American Scholar, The Hopkins Review, Los Angeles Review of Books, and The Washington Post. He lives outside Washington, D.C., where he works as an arts research director. Daniel Moran's writing about literature and film can be found on Pages and Frames. He earned his B.A. and M.A. in English from Rutgers University and his Ph.D. in History from Drew University. The author of Creating Flannery O'Connor: Her Critics, Her Publishers, Her Readers, he teaches research and writing and co-hosts the long-running podcast Fifteen-Minute Film Fanatics, found here on the New Books Network. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices Support our show by becoming a premium member! https://newbooksnetwork.supportingcast.fm/poetry

What happens when our obsession with being better than everyone else destroys both who we are and how we relate to each other? Dr. Miroslav Volf joins us to talk about his new book The Cost of Ambition and why America's comparison culture, achievement addiction, and hardening tribal identities are setting us up for something dangerous. Volf witnessed neighbors turn on neighbors during the Yugoslav wars, and he's seeing the warning signs again—right here, right now. We dive into how striving for superiority traps us in an unstable cycle of pride and inferiority, why our worth can't be based on achievement, and what it means to trust in our naked humanity as the site of God's gift rather than our endless performance metrics. From social media's algorithmic comparison engines to the terror of trusting Jesus to raise our kids, this conversation cuts deep into the spiritual crisis of modern life and points toward a different way—one grounded in the self-giving love of Christ rather than the desperate scramble to stay on top. You can WATCH the conversation on YouTube Dr. Miroslav Volf is the Henry B. Wright Professor of Theology at Yale Divinity School and founding director of the Yale Center for Faith and Culture. Born in Croatia, he lived through the Yugoslav wars—an experience that profoundly shaped his theological work on reconciliation, identity, and belonging. He is the author of numerous influential books including Exclusion and Embrace, Free of Charge, and his newest works The Cost of Ambition and Glimmerings (co-authored with poet Christian Wiman). Widely recognized as one of the world's most respected theologians, Volf's work bridges the academy and the church, helping Christians reflect on faith, public life, and what it means to follow Christ in fractured times. You can listen to our previous conversation on the podcast here: Faith in the Public Square in the Era of Trump. UPCOMING ONLINE LENT CLASS: Jesus in Galilee w/ John Dominic Crossan⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ What can we actually know about Jesus of Nazareth? And, what difference does it make? ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠This Lenten class ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠begins where all of Dr. John Dominic Crossan's has work begins: with history. What was actually happening in Galilee in the 20s CE? What did Herod Antipas' transformation of the "Sea of Galilee" into the commercial "Sea of Tiberias" mean for peasant fishing communities? Why did Jesus emerge from John's baptism movement proclaiming God's Rule through parables—and what made that medium so perfectly suited to that message? Only by understanding what Jesus' parables meant then can we wrestle with what they might demand of us now. ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠The class is donation-based, including 0, so join, get info, and join up here.⁠⁠⁠⁠ This podcast is a ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Homebrewed Christianity ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠production. Follow ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠the Homebrewed Christianity⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠, ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Theology Nerd Throwdown⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠, & ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠The Rise of Bonhoeffer⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ podcasts for more theological goodness for your earbuds. Join over 75,000 other people by joining our ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Substack - Process This!⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Get instant access to over 50 classes at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠www.TheologyClass.com⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Follow the podcast, drop a review⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠, send ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠feedback/questions⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ or become a ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠member of the HBC Community⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Marty Solomon, Brent Billings, and Reed Dent talk about the virtue of faith and the idea of trusting the story.“Bad Theology: A Quiz” by Scott Cairns — America MagazineWishful Thinking by Frederick BuechnerMere Christianity by C. S. LewisThe Gospel of Being Human by Marty Solomon and Reed DentAsking Better Questions of the Bible by Marty SolomonVelvet Elvis by Rob BellGravity and Grace by Simone WeilZero at the Bone by Christian WimanMark 8 — Reed Dent, Campus Christian Fellowship

On Sun, Dec 7, Pastor Rebecca preached about the obligations we may incur by keeping watch. She preached on Deuteronomy 22: 1 - 4 and referenced the poem Every Riven Thing by Christian Wiman. We hope you enjoy!

Our Summer 2025 series, Beside Still Waters, focuses on the places where creativity brings life into a world fatigued by brokenness and division. From jazz to Jane Austen and in between, this season we'll focus on the ways literature and the arts can refresh and challenge our inner lives—and connect us with the Creator of the good, the true, and the beautiful.Our guest this episode is the poet Christian Wiman, a master of the written – and spoken – word. After long wandering, he returned to the Christian faith in which he'd been raised, in part because of a terminal cancer diagnosis – one he has now long outlived. Both before and after his diagnosis, and his return to faith, his experience of despair has fueled his powerful poetry. In grappling with it, Christian uses words in ways that are a tonic against despair.“I deal with despair because…I don't know how not to, and it would be an evasion not to. And I think if you don't feel it, then you're not paying attention.”This podcast is drawn from an online conversation from 2024. We hope this conversation will resonate with you as you explore the good, the true, and the beautiful in your own corner of creation. If it does, please consider joining the Trinity Forum community as a member, at ttf.org. You can find the full video of this conversation there too. And while you're here, please subscribe to this podcast on your chosen platform. Authors and books mentioned in the conversation:Zero at the Bone: Fifty Entries Against Despair, by Christian WimanMarilynne RobinsonDanielle ChapmanWilliam BronkWilliam WordsworthEvery Riven Thing, by Christian WimanMy Bright Abyss: Meditations of a Modern Believer, by Christian WimanPrayer, by Carol Ann DuffyThe Bible and Poetry, by Michael Edwards Augustine of HippoBittersweet, by George HerbertSurprised by Joy, by C.S. LewisRichard WilburJürgen MoltmannWhen the Time's Toxins, by Christian WimanRelated Trinity Forum Readings:Augustine's ConfessionsDevotions by John Donne, paraphrased by Philip YanceyGod's Grandeur: the Poems of Gerard Manley HopkinsBulletins from Immortality, by Emily DickinsonWrestling with God, by Simone WeilRelated Conversations:Connecting Spiritual Formation & Public Life with Michael WearThe Kingdom, the Power & The Glory with Tim AlbertaA Life Worth Living with Miroslav VolfTowards a Better Christian PoliticsChristian Pluralism: Living Faithfully in a World of DifferenceWhat Really Matters with Charlie Peacock and Andi AshworthScripture and the Public SquareHow to be a Patriotic ChristianLife, Death, Poetry & Peace with Philip YanceyThe Fall, the Founding, and the Future of American DemocracyFear and Conspiracy with David FrenchTo listen to this or any of our episodes in full, visit ttf.org/podcast and to help make content like this possible, join the Trinity Forum Society.

“Art is a form of prayer … a way to enter into relationship.”Artist and theologian Bruce Herman reflects on the sacred vocation of making, resisting consumerism, and the divine invitation to become co-creators. From Mark Rothko to Rainer Maria Rilke, to Andres Serrano's “Piss Christ” and T.S. Eliot's Four Quartets, he comments on the holy risk of artmaking and the sacred fire of creative origination.Together with Evan Rosa, Bruce Herman explores the divine vocation of art making as resistance to consumer culture and passive living. In this deeply poetic and wide-ranging conversation—and drawing from his book *Makers by Nature—*he invites us into a vision of art not as individual genius or commodity, but as service, dialogue, and co-creation rooted in love, not fear. They touch on ancient questions of human identity and desire, the creative implications of being made in the image of God, Buber's I and Thou, the scandal of the cross, Eliot's divine fire, Rothko's melancholy ecstasy, and how even making a loaf of bread can be a form of holy protest. A profound reflection on what it means to be human, and how we might change our lives—through beauty, vulnerability, and relational making.Episode Highlights“We are made by a Maker to be makers.”“ I think hope is being stolen from us Surreptitiously moment by moment hour by hour day by day.”“There is no them. There is only us.”“The work itself has a life of its own.”“Art that serves a community.”“You must change your life.” —Rilke, recited by Bruce Herman in reflection on the transformative power of art.“When we're not making something, we're not whole. We're not healthy.”“Making art is a form of prayer. It's a form of entering into relationship.”“Art is not for the artist—any more than it's for anyone else. The work stands apart. It has its own voice.”“We're not merely consumers—we're made by a Maker to be makers.”“The ultimate act of art is hospitality.”Topics and ThemesHuman beings are born to create and make meaningArt as theological dialogue and spiritual resistanceCreative practice as a form of love and worshipChristian art and culture in dialogue with contemporary issuesPassive consumption vs. active creationHow to engage with provocative art faithfullyThe role of beauty, mystery, and risk in the creative processArt that changes you spiritually, emotionally, and intellectuallyThe sacred vocation of the artist in a consumerist worldHow poetry and painting open up divine encounter, particularly in Rainer Maria Rilke's “Archaic Torso of Apollo”Four Quartets and spiritual longing in modern poetryHospitality, submission, and service as aesthetic posturesModern culture's sickness and art as medicineEncountering the cross through contemporary artistic imagination“Archaic Torso of Apollo”Rainer Maria Rilke 1875 –1926We cannot know his legendary head with eyes like ripening fruit. And yet his torso is still suffused with brilliance from inside, like a lamp, in which his gaze, now turned to low, gleams in all its power. Otherwise the curved breast could not dazzle you so, nor could a smile run through the placid hips and thighs to that dark center where procreation flared. Otherwise this stone would seem defaced beneath the translucent cascade of the shoulders and would not glisten like a wild beast's fur: would not, from all the borders of itself, burst like a star: for here there is no place that does not see you. You must change your life.About Bruce HermanBruce Herman is a painter, writer, educator, and speaker. His art has been shown in more than 150 exhibitions—nationally in many US cities, including New York, Boston, Washington, Chicago, Los Angeles, and Houston—and internationally in England, Japan, Hong Kong, Italy, Canada, and Israel. His artwork is featured in many public and private art collections including the Vatican Museum of Modern Religious Art in Rome; The Cincinnati Museum of Fine Arts print collection; The Grunewald Print Collection of the Hammer Museum, Los Angeles; DeCordova Museum in Boston; the Cape Ann Museum; and in many colleges and universities throughout the United States and Canada.Herman taught at Gordon College for nearly four decades, and is the founding chair of the Art Department there. He held the Lothlórien Distinguished Chair in Fine Arts for more than fifteen years, and continues to curate exhibitions and manage the College art collection there. Herman completed both BFA and MFA degrees at Boston University College of Fine Arts under American artists Philip Guston, James Weeks, David Aronson, Reed Kay, and Arthur Polonsky. He was named Boston University College of Fine Arts Distinguished Alumnus of the Year 2006.Herman's art may be found in dozens of journals, popular magazines, newspapers, and online art features. He and co-author Walter Hansen wrote the book Through Your Eyes, 2013, Grand Rapids, Wm. B. Eerdmans Publishing, a thirty-year retrospective of Herman's art as seen through the eyes of his most dedicated collector.To learn more, explore A Video Portrait of the Artist and My Process – An Essay by Bruce Herman.Books by Bruce Herman*Makers by Nature: Letters from a Master Painter on Faith, Hope, and Art* (2025) *Ordinary Saints (*2018) *Through Your Eyes: The Art of Bruce Herman (2013) *QU4RTETS with Makoto Fujimura, Bruce Herman, Christopher Theofanidis, Jeremy Begbie (2012) A Broken Beauty (2006)Show NotesBruce Herman on Human Identity as MakersWe are created in the image of God—the ultimate “I Am”—and thus made to create.“We are made by a Maker to be makers.”To deny our creative impulse is to risk a deep form of spiritual unhealth.Making is not just for the “artist”—everyone is born with the capacity to make.Theological Themes and Philosophical FrameworksInfluences include Martin Buber's “I and Thou,” René Girard's scapegoating theory, and the image of God in Genesis.“We don't really exist for ourselves. We exist in the space between us.”The divine invitation is relational, not autonomous.Desire, imitation, and submission form the core of our relational anthropology.Art as Resistance to Consumerism“We begin to enter into illness when we become mere consumers.”Art Versus PropagandaCulture is sickened by passive consumption, entertainment addiction, and aesthetic commodification.Making a loaf of bread, carving wood, or crafting a cocktail are acts of cultural resistance.Desire“Anything is resistance… Anything is a protest against passive consumption.”Art as Dialogue and Submission“Making art is a form of prayer. It's a form of entering into relationship.”Submission—though culturally maligned—is a necessary posture in love and art.Engaging with art requires openness to transformation.“If you want to really receive what a poem is communicating, you have to submit to it.”The Transformative Power of Encountering ArtQuoting Rilke's Archaic Torso of Apollo: “You must change your life.”True art sees the viewer and invites them to become something more.Herman's own transformative moment came unexpectedly in front of a Rothko painting.“The best part of my work is outside of my control.”Scandal, Offense, and the Cross in ArtAnalyzing Andres Serrano's Piss Christ as a sincere meditation on the commercialization of the cross.“Does the crucifixion still carry sacred weight—or has it been reduced to jewelry?”Art should provoke—but out of love, not self-aggrandizement or malice.“The cross is an offense. Paul says so. But it's the power of God for those being saved.”Beauty, Suffering, and Holy RiskEncounter with art can arise from personal or collective suffering.Bruce references Christian Wiman and Walker Percy as artists opened by pain.“Sometimes it takes catastrophe to open us up again.”Great art offers not escape, but transformation through vulnerability.The Fire and the Rose: T. S. Eliot's InfluenceFour Quartets shaped Herman's artistic and theological imagination.Eliot's poetry is contemplative, musical, liturgical, and steeped in paradox.“To be redeemed from fire by fire… when the fire and the rose are one.”The collaborative Quartets project with Makoto Fujimura and Chris Theofanidis honors Eliot's poetic vision.Living and Creating from Love, Not Fear“Make from love, not fear.”Fear-driven art (or politics) leads to manipulation and despair.Acts of love include cooking, serving, sharing, and creating for others.“The ultimate act of art is hospitality.”Media & Intellectual ReferencesMakers by Nature by Bruce HermanFour Quartets by T. S. EliotThe Archaic Torso of Apollo by Rainer Maria RilkeWassily Kandinsky, “On the Spiritual in Art”Amusing Ourselves to Death by Neil PostmanThings Hidden Since the Foundation of the World by René GirardThe Art of the Commonplace by Wendell BerryAndres Serrano's Piss ChristMakoto Fujimura's Art and Collaboration

Philip Gulley, Peterson, and Sweet Miche share their personal journeys of unlearning traditional theological concepts and reflect on what makes Quakerism a meaningful path to a more authentic faith. Gulley highlights fear as a significant motivator for religious beliefs and a tool for control and how the current political moment is a masterfully evil manipulation of human fears. Gulley also offers his perspective on the continued usefulness of organized religion, emphasizing the importance of bringing people together, respecting personal autonomy, and aligning its social efforts with the ethos of Jesus and radical love. Philip Gulley is a Quaker pastor, writer, and speaker from Danville, Indiana.  Gulley has written 22 books, including the Harmony series recounting life in the eccentric Quaker community of Harmony, Indiana, and the best-selling Porch Talk essay series. Gulley's memoir, I Love You, Miss Huddleston: And Other Inappropriate Longings of My Indiana Childhood, was a finalist for the Thurber Prize for American Hor.  In addition, Gulley, with co-author James Mulholland, shared their progressive spirituality in the books If Grace Is True and If God Is Love, followed by Gulley's books If the Church Were Christian and The Evolution of Faith. In  Living the Quaker Way: Timeless Wisdom For a Better Life Today, Gulley offers the opportunity to participate in a world where the values of the Quaker way bring equity, peace, healing, and hope. In his most recently published non-fiction work, Unlearning God: How Unbelieving Helped Me Believe, Gulley describes the process of spiritual growth, especially the re-interpretation of the earliest principles we learned about God. Resources Here are some resources for friends in the process of unlearning and seeking spiritual growth: Therapy Therapy and spiritual growth can be deeply complementary. While therapy doesn't typically provide spiritual direction, it creates fertile ground for unlearning and spiritual development. You can use online therapist directories to find a therapist by location, insurance, specialty, cost, and more at Psychology Today, TherapyDen, or Open Path Psychotherapy Collective. Poets and Authors Audre Lorde is a profoundly influential Black lesbian feminist writer, poet, theorist, and civil rights activist. Her work powerfully explores the intersections of race, class, gender, sexuality, and ability. You can read her essays in Sister Outsider and her "biomythography" Zami: A New Spelling of My Name. Federico Garcia Lorca is one of Spain's most important poets and playwrights of the 20th century. His work is celebrated for its intense lyricism, surreal imagery, and passionate exploration of themes like love, death, desire, oppression, and Andalusian culture, particularly in works like Gypsy Ballads and plays such as Blood Wedding and The House of Bernarda Alba. Walt Whitman is a central figure in American poetry, often called the "Bard of Democracy." Whitman revolutionized poetry with his use of free verse and expansive lines. His lifelong work, Leaves of Grass, celebrates the individual, democracy, nature, the body, spirituality, and the interconnectedness of all life, aiming to capture the diverse spirit of America. Mary Oliver is an American poet who focuses on the natural world, particularly the landscapes of New England.  Her work finds wonder, spirituality, and profound insight in quiet observation and moments of attention to nature, inviting readers to connect more deeply with the world around them. Christian Wiman is a contemporary American poet and essayist known for his unflinching honesty and intellectual rigor in exploring themes of faith, doubt, suffering (often drawing on his own experience with chronic illness), mortality, and love.  Joy Harjo is a member of the Muscogee (Creek) Nation and served as the first Native American U.S. Poet Laureate. Her work weaves together Indigenous history, spirituality, myth, social justice, resilience, and a deep connection to the land, often infused with the rhythms of music and prayer. Akwake Emezi is a non-binary Nigerian writer and artist known for their powerful, innovative, and often genre-bending work. Their novels (like Freshwater and The Death of Vivek Oji) explore complex themes of identity, spirituality (often drawing on Igbo cosmology), gender, mental health, trauma, and the body, challenging conventional Western frameworks of selfhood. Elaine Pagels is a renowned historian of religion, particularly noted for her scholarship on early Christianity and Gnosticism. Her groundbreaking book, The Gnostic Gospels, brought non-canonical early Christian texts to wider attention, revealing the diversity of early Christian thought and exploring how political and social contexts shaped religious history and scripture. LGBTQ+ film festivals are events dedicated to showcasing films by, for, or about queer individuals and communities. They serve as vital platforms for representation, providing visibility for filmmakers and stories often marginalized in mainstream media. These festivals (like Frameline, Outfest, NewFest, and countless others globally) are also important spaces for community building and celebrating queer culture. Quaker Voluntary Service is a year-long program rooted in Quaker values. It brings young adults together to live in an intentional community, work full-time in social justice-focused non-profit organizations, and engage in spiritual exploration and leadership development, putting faith into action. Listener Responses We hear directly from Roxanne, who unlearned the idea that any single group holds the definitive spiritual answer, instead discovering valuable truths across diverse practices and traditions through their continuous seeking. On Facebook, friends shared their experience wrestling with the traditional ideas about God they grew up with. Many people mentioned letting go of a harsh or judgmental image of God, questioning core doctrines, and letting go of feelings of unworthiness. Thank you to Angela, Rae, Tim, Amy, Iris, Christine, Steve, David, Tyler, Joe, Deepak, and Whittier for sharing so openly with our question of the month. Question for Next Month Beyond a roof and four walls, what does the word 'home' mean to you? Share your response by emailing podcast@quakerstoday.org or call/text 317-QUAKERS (317-782-5377). Please include your name and location. Your responses may be featured in our next episode. Quakers Today: A Project of Friends Publishing Corporation Quakers Today is the companion podcast to Friends Journal and Friends Publishing Corporation content. It is written, hosted, and produced by Peterson Toscano and Miche McCall. Season Four of Quakers Today is Sponsored by: Friends Fiduciary Since 1898, Friends Fiduciary has provided values-aligned investment services for Quaker organizations, consistently achieving strong financial returns while upholding Quaker testimonies. They also assist individuals in supporting beloved organizations through donor-advised funds, charitable gift annuities, and stock gifts. Learn more at FriendsFiduciary.org. American Friends Service Committee (AFSC) Vulnerable communities and the planet are counting on Quakers to take action for a more just, sustainable, and peaceful world. AFSC works at the forefront of social change movements to meet urgent humanitarian needs, challenge injustice, and build peace. Learn more at AFSC.org. Feel free to email us at podcast@friendsjournal.org with​​ comments, questions, and requests for our show. Music from this episode comes from Epidemic Sound.  Follow Quakers Today on TikTok, Instagram, and X. For more episodes and a full transcript of this episode, visit QuakersToday.org.

Pastor Amos kicks off our new series as we explore John 11 together, paired with words by poet Christian Wiman

V3 Conservatory Poet Wendy Kieffer joins LAB the Podcast to share and discuss Christian Wiman's poem, “Prayer.” “Prayer” was the right poem as we continue our conversation highlighting the work to fight human trafficking and care for survivors through V3's LAB Initiative. Learn more about the work of V3.Support the show

As you probably know by now, 2024 was a big year for Commonweal, marking one hundred years of continuous publication.  It was also an important one for the podcast, which for five years—and nearly one hundred and fifty episodes—has been bringing you reflective conversations with inspiring writers, thinkers, artists, and political and religious leaders.  On this episode, we're revisiting four of our favorite episodes from the past year: Marilynne Robinson and Christian Wiman on Genesis Anastasia Berg and Rachel Wiseman on the ethics of having children Vinson Cunningham on criticism as a way of life Rabbi Shai Held on Judaism's loving heart. 

This reflection explores an apocalyptic saying of Jesus found in St. Luke's Gospel, 21:25-26. Apocalyptic is a literary genre originating in Judaism in the centuries following the Babylonian exile (597–587 BCE). But as the poet Christian Wiman reminds us, "The revelation we need is not ultimate but intimate.”  

Jake and Phil are joined by Ross Douthat, New York Times columnist and author of the forthcoming Believe: Why Everyone Should Be Religious, to discuss Ross' essay "Is the World Ready for a Religious Comeback" and Christian Wiman's 2008 essay in the American Scholar, "My Bright Abyss" The Manifesto: Ross Douthat, "Is the World Ready for a Religious Comeback" https://www.nytimes.com/2024/10/19/opinion/religion-atheism-books.html The Art: Christian Wiman, My Bright Abyss https://theamericanscholar.org/my-bright-abyss/ Pre-order Ross' book https://www.zondervan.com/9780310367604/believe/

This is our unabridged interview with Christian Wiman. “Suffering, I think, catalyzes an intimacy that couldn't happen otherwise.” Christian Wiman, renowned poet and teacher at Yale Divinity School, does not say these words flippantly. Two decades ago, he was diagnosed with a rare form of cancer and given a life expectancy of five years. He has lived the past twenty years in the shadow of death and the grip of despair. In this episode, while discussing his recent memoir “Zero at the Bone: Fifty Entries Against Despair,” Christian explores faith, doubt, joy, and sorrow in the way only a great poet can, taking the stuff of life - the mundane, confusing, chaotic, and tragic - and making meaning out of it. Show Notes Resources mentioned this episode:"Zero at the Bone" by Christian Wiman"My Bright Abyss" by Christian Wiman Similar NSE episodes: Christian Wiman: The Opposite of Faith is Certainty Pádraig Ó Tuama: A Poet's Work in Peace and Reconciliation Clay Hobbs: The Wisdom of Numbering Your Days Angela Williams Gorrell and Miroslav Volf: On Joy and Sorrow  Transcript of Abridged Episode Want more NSE? JOIN NSE+ Today! Our subscriber only community with bonus episodes designed specifically to help you live a good life, ad-free listening, and discounts on live shows Subscribe to episodes: Apple | Spotify | Amazon | Google | YouTubeFollow Us: Instagram | Twitter | Facebook | YouTubeFollow Lee: Instagram | TwitterJoin our Email List: nosmallendeavor.com See Privacy Policy: Privacy Policy Amazon Affiliate Disclosure: Tokens Media, LLC is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to Amazon.com.

“Suffering, I think, catalyzes an intimacy that couldn't happen otherwise.” Christian Wiman, renowned poet and teacher at Yale Divinity School, does not say these words flippantly. Two decades ago, he was diagnosed with a rare form of cancer and given a life expectancy of five years. He has lived the past twenty years in the shadow of death and the grip of despair. In this episode, while discussing his recent memoir “Zero at the Bone: Fifty Entries Against Despair,” Christian explores faith, doubt, joy, and sorrow in the way only a great poet can, taking the stuff of life - the mundane, confusing, chaotic, and tragic - and making meaning out of it. Show Notes Resources mentioned this episode:"Zero at the Bone" by Christian Wiman"My Bright Abyss" by Christian Wiman Similar NSE episodes: Christian Wiman: The Opposite of Faith is Certainty Pádraig Ó Tuama: A Poet's Work in Peace and Reconciliation Clay Hobbs: The Wisdom of Numbering Your Days Angela Williams Gorrell and Miroslav Volf: On Joy and Sorrow  Transcription Link Want more NSE? JOIN NSE+ Today! Our subscriber only community with bonus episodes designed specifically to help you live a good life, ad-free listening, and discounts on live shows Subscribe to episodes: Apple | Spotify | Amazon | Google | YouTubeFollow Us: Instagram | Twitter | Facebook | YouTubeFollow Lee: Instagram | TwitterJoin our Email List: nosmallendeavor.com See Privacy Policy: Privacy Policy Amazon Affiliate Disclosure: Tokens Media, LLC is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to Amazon.com.

Words Against Despair with Christian WimanAs poet Christian Wiman explains on our podcast, despair is part of the human condition: “I deal with despair because…I don't know how not to, and it would be an evasion not to. And I think if you don't feel it, then you're not paying attention.”In his new book, Zero at the Bone: Fifty Entries Against Despair, the acclaimed poet chases meaning through words, including memoir and poetry. And in this conversation he explains how he has found relief from despair in poetry, even and especially when poets grapple honestly with despair, “they speak of [despair] as a thing that can be spoken of.”Wiman returned to Christian faith in part through a terminal cancer diagnosis–one that he has, to his astonishment, now lived with for over 18 years. His work explores themes of illness, love, faith, and the “almost spiritual joy” of encountering a deadly coral snake. We trust you will find in his poetry, and in this conversation with Trinity Forum's guest host, Tom Wash, a great tonic against despair.This podcast is an edited version of an online conversation recorded in April 2024. Watch the full video of the conversation here, and learn more about Christian Wiman.Authors and books mentioned in the conversation:Zero at the Bone: Fifty Entries Against Despair, by Chrisitan WimanMarylin RobisonDanielle ChapmanWilliam BronkWilliam WordsworthEvery Riven Thing, by Christian WimanMy Bright Abyss: Meditations of a Modern Believer, by Christian WimanPrayer, by Carol Ann DuffyThe Bible and Poetry, by Michael Edwards Augustine of HippoBittersweet, by George HerbertSurprised by Joy, by C.S. LewisRichard WilburJürgen MoltmannWhen the Time's Toxins, by Christian WimanRelated Trinity Forum Readings:Augustine's ConfessionsDevotions by John Donne, paraphrased by Philip YanceyGod's Grandeur: the Poems of Gerard Manley HopkinsBulletins from Immortality, by Emily DickinsonWrestling with God, by Simone WeilRelated Conversations:Connecting Spiritual Formation & Public Life with Michael WearThe Kingdom, the Power & The Glory with Tim AlbertaA Life Worth Living with Miroslav VolfTowards a Better Christian PoliticsChristian Pluralism: Living Faithfully in a World of DifferenceWhat Really Matters with Charlie Peacock and Andi AshworthScripture and the Public SquareHow to be a Patriotic ChristianLife, Death, Poetry & Peace with Philip YanceyThe Fall, the Founding, and the Future of American DemocracyFear and Conspiracy with David FrenchTo listen to this or any of our episodes in full, visit ttf.org/podcast and to help make content like this possible, join the Trinity Forum SocietySpecial thanks to Ned Bustard for our podcast artwork.

Brent Billings, Reed Dent, and Elle Grover Fricks conclude the series on the Psalms and offer a final bit of encouragement to carry with us into the future.Festival of Faith & Writing — Calvin UniversityMy Bright Abyss by Christian WimanInside Out (2015 film) — JustWatch“Despite My Efforts Even My Prayers Have Turned into Threats” from Pilgrim Bell by Kaveh Akbar“The Only Animal” from Walking to Martha's Vineyard by Franz Wright“Ulysses” by Alfred, Lord Tennyson — Poetry Foundation“Bless Me” by Maverick City Music (feat. Kirk Franklin) — YouTubeLiturgy Prints — Every Moment Holy“A Greek Papyrus Amulet from the Duke Collection with Biblical Excerpts” by Csaba A. La'da and Amphilochios Papathomas — JSTORCoble Eye Care

In our fast-paced world, how can we cultivate a sense of wonder and open ourselves to the possibility of joy, even amidst life's inevitable hardships? In this episode, we're joined by Christian Wiman as we continue our chapter-by-chapter exploration of Falling Upward with Chapter 10: "A Bright Sadness." In this conversation with Christian Wiman, we explore how suffering and joy can coexist and transform us through a poetic experience of Christianity. Before we dive in to the interview with Christian, CAC staff catch up with Richard at his hermitage to hear his reflections on the tenth chapter a decade after he originally wrote it. Christian Wiman is the author, editor, or translator of more than a dozen books of poetry and prose, including two memoirs, My Bright Abyss: Meditation of a Modern Believer and He Held Radical Light: The Art of Faith, the Faith of Art; Every Riven Thing, winner of the Ambassador Book Award; Once in the West, a National Book Critics Circle Award finalist; and Survival Is a Style―all published by FSG. He teaches religion and literature at the Yale Institute of Sacred Music and at Yale Divinity School. Resources: A PDF of the transcript for this episode is available here. Grab a copy of the newly revised version of Falling Upward, with a new foreword by Brené Brown here. Check out Christian Wiman's latest book, Zero at the Bone: Fifty Entries Against Despair here. We also reference his book, My Bright Abyss. You can find that here. Connect with us: Have a question or thought about this season that you'd like to share with us? Email us: podcasts@cac.org Send us a voicemail here: http://www.cac.org/voicemail

This conversation is a little different. We wanted to take a break from the election-year political jousting to talk to the poet Christian Wiman about Zero at the Bone: Fifty Entries Against Despair, one of the most singular books published in recent memory—part memoir, part commonplace book, part poetry collection. As with his previous My Bright Abyss, Wiman, more than any other contemporary Christian writer, manages to shake off our culture's desiccated religious tropes to write and talk about matters of ultimate concern in ways that are bracing, even exhilarating. How does poetry tap into reality, or, even better, what does poetry reveal about it? How does he think about the relationship between "life and art"? Why does he resist "Saul on the Road to Damascus"-style accounts of religious conversion? Why did he almost not write about his cancer diagnosis in My Bright Abyss? Why might postmodernism be good for religion, actually? How does the love of another person connect to the love of God? And how does any of this matter for how we live? We take up these questions and more.Sources:Christian Wiman, Zero at the Bone: Fifty Entries Against Despair (2023)— My Bright Abyss: Meditations of a Modern Believer (2013)— Ambition and Survival: Becoming a Poet (2004)— Every Riven Thing: Poems (2014)— "The Preacher Addresses the Seminarians" in Once in the West (2014)Matthew Sitman, "Finding the Words for Faith: Meet America's Most Important Christian Writer," The Dish, Sept 3, 2014Casey Cep, "How the Poet Christian Wiman Keeps His Faith," New Yorker, Dec 4, 2023Andre Dubus, "A Father's Story," in Selected Stories of Andre Dubus (1996)Simone Weil, Gravity and Grace (1947)Robert Bringhurst, "These Poems, She Said,"  from The Beauty of the Weapons: Selected Poems 1972-1982. Copper Canyon Press (1982)...and don't forget to subscribe to Know Your Enemy for access to all of our bonus episodes!

Peace Talks continues its series exploring the impact of the arts on spiritual formation, justice, and peace with this engaging interview with guest host, Suzie Lind and Jon Guerra. Their conversation considers why putting your head in the sand isn't always a bad thing and why peace isn't great for headlines. Listen in as they discuss surrendering to life as it comes. You don't want to miss this one!JON GUERRA is a Devotional Music Singer-Songwriter based in Austin, TX.  In 2020, he independently released, “Keeper of Days.” Guerra began describing his style as “devotional music” - a term he coined to refer to his musical style - as “less Sunday morning worship music, and more Monday morning prayer music.” His 2023 album, “Ordinary Ways,” was critically acclaimed and won Best Album of The Year at the Gospel Coalition's yearly round up. His songs have been described as, “contemporary Psalms with the earnestness of George Herbert, the reverent doubt of R.S. Thomas, the piercing acuity of Christian Wiman, and the determined vulnerability of St. Augustine's Confession.” (Fr. Zac Koons, Mockingbird Magazine) In addition to songwriting, Guerra, alongside his wife, Valerie, composed music for Terrence Malick's “A Hidden Life” (2019). He is currently touring, writing for his next album, and enjoying tacos with his wife and daughter in the ever-balmy Texas hill country. » Subscribe to PEACE TALKS Podcast: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/peace-talks/id1590168616About the Center for Formation, Justice and Peace:Justice and peace come from the inside out—from the overflow of a transformed heart. This belief led our founder, Bishop Todd Hunter, to start the Center for Formation, Justice and Peace in 2021. The Center brings together a diverse, interdenominational community of people who want to be formed in love to heal a broken world. Because “religion” is often part of the problem, we've created a brave, Jesus-centered space for dialogue, questioning, creating, and exploration. PEACE TALKS introduces you to women and men who are working to undo oppression, leading to lives of deeper peace for all.*Connect with The Center Online!*Visit The Center's Website: https://centerfjp.orgFollow The Center on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/centerfjpFollow The Center on Twitter: https://twitter.com/CenterFjpFollow The Center on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/centerfjp/Support the Show.

The Fourth Sunday of Easter | Acts 4:5-12 | Psalm 23 | 1 John 3:16-24 | John 10:11-18 | April 21st 2024 | Rev. Danny Bryant | St. Mary of Bethany Parish (Nashville, TN)  Readings & Resources: Acts: A Theological Commentary on the Bible - Willie James Jennings | "Native Tongue" - Sara Groves | My Bright Abyss - Christian Wiman | Joy: 100 Poems - Christian Wiman

On the inaugural episode of Something We Read, Kathryn and Eve discuss Zero at the Bone: Fifty Entries Against Despair by Christian Wiman--a book that the sisters describe as an uplifting gut punch. They share their reading experience and dive into their favorite parts and passages. Links...Something Eve Read (self plug!)Our Instagram, which we didn't mention at all but it does existOther Book recommendations...The Chronicles of Narnia by C.S. Lewis Ordinary Human Failings by Megan Nolan (she's Irish! Also Eve realized after the fact that she has read Megan Nolan's debut novel, Acts of Desperation--which is an absolute BANGER)Poetry...Billy Collins, "The Breather"Sharon Olds, Stag's LeapRobert Frost, any collection of poetry and/or anthology, but Eve's favorite is "The Silken Tent" Poetry Today by Maya C. Popa (on Substack) Closing poem: "What I Didn't Know Before" By Ada LimónNext Month's Book...By the Lake by John McGahern And! Special thanks to our sponsor.........pork chops pounded really thin.......we love you

We're all familiar with the tired stereotype of the “God of the Old Testament,” a capricious creator Who subjects His chosen people to endless cycles of punishment and retribution.  But in her reading of the Book of Genesis, novelist and essayist Marilynne Robinson describes a God of gentleness, one wildly in love with creation and humanity. In this special episode of the Commonweal Podcast, moderated by senior editor Matt Boudway, poet and memoirist Christian Wiman joins Robinson for a conversation about the Book of Genesis.  Robinson and Wiman also discuss scripture and theology more generally—especially as the two practice it through fiction and poetry.  For further reading:  Marilynne Robinson on forgiveness in Genesis Christian Wiman on the Bible as poetry Jack Miles on the Bible and translation

This is a free preview of a paid episode. To hear more, visit andrewsullivan.substack.comChristian is a poet and author, and, in my view, one of the most piercing writers on faith in our time. He served as the editor of Poetry magazine from 2003 to 2013, and his work has appeared in The Atlantic, Harper's Bazaar, The New Yorker, the NYT Book Review and others. He's the author, editor, or translator of more than a dozen books, and his new one is called Zero at the Bone: Fifty Entries Against Despair. Matt Sitman and I did a pod episode with him 12 years ago; so it was a real delight to reconnect for a second. I think it's one of the best episodes we've yet produced. But make up your own mind. For two clips of our convo — on finding God through suffering, and getting a glimpse of the divine through psychedelics — pop over to our YouTube page. Other topics: growing up in poverty and trauma in West Texas; his father was a Bible salesman turned doctor but volatile and addiction-prone; murder-suicide in his extended family; Christian's anger over his upbringing; discovering poetry in college was a life preserver; the silence found in the middle and end of poems; Emily Dickinson's dashes; Zadie Smith; how pure joy is destabilizing; C.S. Lewis; how the comforts of modern life insulate us from the ultimate questions; Pascal; the voiceless film Into Great Silence; Terrence Malick; me contemplating the Trinity on MDMA; an argument between Jesus and Nietzsche on magic mushrooms; how Nietzsche drove Christian away from God in college but eventually strengthened his faith; eternal return; “Christ is much larger than Christianity”; my friend Patrick who perished from AIDS; Christian facing oblivion with cancer many times; questioning his own faith constantly; Aeschylus; Rumi; Montaigne; Leonard Cohen; eternity as a release from time; Augustine on time; Job and undeserved suffering; theodicy; Anna Kamieńska's poem “A Prayer That Will Be Answered”; Larkin's “Church Going” and “This Be The Verse”; Auden; Carlo Rovelli and perception; and the profound feminism of Jesus.Browse the Dishcast archive for an episode you might enjoy (the first 102 are free in their entirety — subscribe to get everything else). Coming up: Abigail Shrier on why the cult of therapy harms children, Richard Dawkins on religion, Johann Hari on weight-loss drugs, Adam Moss on the artistic process, and George Will on Trump and conservatism. Please send any guest recs, dissents, and other pod comments to dish@andrewsullivan.com.

This is a free preview of a paid episode. To hear more, visit andrewsullivan.substack.comRob is a young independent writer. His work has been featured in the NYT, the WSJ, the Boston Globe and others, and he writes a popular substack that coined the term “luxury beliefs.” He had a tumultuous childhood in foster care, joined the Air Force at 17, and went on to graduate from Yale and Cambridge. He tells that story in his first book, Troubled: A Memoir of Foster Care, Family, and Social Class.For two clips of our convo — on attending Yale during the Halloween costume meltdown, and how to reform the foster care system — pop over to our YouTube page. Other topics: born into poverty in LA; an absent father; a drug-addicted mom who grossly neglected him; her arrest and deportation; entering foster care at age 3; having his first beer at age 5; his social worker being the most stable figure in his childhood; seven different homes by age 8; an eccentric foster mom who used Rob for free labor and nearly let him drown in her swimming pool; finally adopted by parents — who divorced 18 months later; the adopted father who cut him off; the adopted mother who partnered with a woman — who suffered a near fatal gunshot; growing up in the working-class Central Valley; constantly getting into fights; constantly using drugs and booze; drunk-driving on the reg; getting terrible grades; barely graduating high school; enlisting in the Air Force at 17 and serving eight years; entering rehab at 24; his life saved by a standardized test in the military; how the SATs are a life-line for marginalized teens; Rob getting into Yale; being mystified by the “luxury beliefs” and victim culture of his privileged peers; micro-aggressions and emotional labor; Orwell on oikophobia of the intelligentsia; the high marriage rates of liberal elites; Google's Gemini trying to indoctrinate the masses with CRT; and the importance of a stable family above all else.Browse the Dishcast archive for an episode you might enjoy (the first 102 are free in their entirety — subscribe to get everything else). Coming up: Christian Wiman on resisting despair as a Christian, George Will on Trump and conservatism, Abigail Shrier on why the cult of therapy harms children, Adam Moss on the artistic process, and Richard Dawkins on religion. Please send any guest recs, dissents, and other pod comments to dish@andrewsullivan.com.

The subject, in a word, is despair, both public and private. The poets and spiritual seekers Christian Wiman and his wife Danielle Chapman are back to goad us, each with a new book. Their project ...

This is a free preview of a paid episode. To hear more, visit andrewsullivan.substack.comJeff is the president and CEO of the National Constitution Center, where he hosts “We the People,” a weekly podcast of constitutional debate. He is also a professor of law at the George Washington University Law School, and a contributing editor at The Atlantic. A former house-mate of mine and friend for 40 years, Jeff began his journalistic career writing some stellar essays on the Supreme Court in the TNR when I was editor. The author of many books, his new one is The Pursuit of Happiness: How Classical Writers on Virtue Inspired the Lives of the Founders and Defined America.You can listen right away in the audio player above (or on the right side of the player, click “Listen On” to add the Dishcast feed to your favorite podcast app). For two clips of our convo — on the transcendence of deep reading in the age of distraction, and the hypocrisy of many Founding Fathers on slavery — pop over to our YouTube page.Other topics: growing up in NYC with a father who's a renowned hypnotherapist and a mother who's a social worker; educated at the Dalton School — “a beacon of liberalism”; reconciling faith with reason; the intellectual tradition in Catholicism; God as reason (logos); Jeff's deep reading during Covid; Seneca's essays on time; Cicero's treatise on old age; Aurelius' Meditations; Ben Franklin's 13 virtues; temperance and prudence; Socrates; Plato; Aristotelian balance; Pythagorus; Blazing Saddles; “without virtue happiness cannot be”; Jefferson's 12 virtues; his rank racism and contradictions over liberty; Sally Hemings; George Wythe freeing his slaves; the Founders building a new society based on ancient wisdom; Cicero at the center of that project; the Bhagavad Gita; the Stoics as Taoist; John Adams as tempestuous and striving for humility; treating his brilliant wife as his equal; making up with his enemies (e.g. Jefferson); Madison and the Federalist Papers; Douglass teaching himself to read; Freud and the substitute of character for personality; delayed gratification; “everything goes to s**t in the Sixties”; Gen Z's pursuit of happiness ending in anxiety; the quiet life of the 18th century vs the “dazzling array of distractions” today; regaining concentration through deep reading; how all the great books of the ancient world are free online; balance, deliberation, and equanimity as keys to good government; the preternatural calm of Obama; the danger of demagogues; Trump as the anti-Christ of liberal democracy and the antithesis of the Founders.Browse the Dishcast archive for an episode you might enjoy (the first 102 are free in their entirety — subscribe to get everything else). Coming up: Rob Henderson on class and “luxury beliefs,” Christian Wiman on resisting despair as a Christian, George Will on Trump and conservatism, Abigail Shrier on why the cult of therapy harms children, Adam Moss on the artistic process, and Richard Dawkins on religion. Please send any guest recs, dissents, and other pod comments to dish@andrewsullivan.com.

This is a free preview of a paid episode. To hear more, visit andrewsullivan.substack.comNate is a statistician and writer focused on American politics and sports, and a longtime friend from the blog days. He was the founder and editor-in-chief of FiveThirtyEight, and now he writes his own substack, Silver Bulletin. He's the author of The Signal and the Noise, and his forthcoming book is On the Edge: How Successful Gamblers and Risk-Takers Think (pre-order here).For two clips of our convo — on the pluralism of gay social networks, why poker is so male — pop over to our YouTube page. Other topics: Nate growing up in the Midwest obsessed with sports and the debate team; the Best Little Boy in the World syndrome; coming out while living abroad; how the LGBT Society in 1999 was apolitical; gays as heterodox thinkers in media; the joys of code-switching; the diversity of sports fans and poker players; the sexism in poker; Maria Konnikova and Maria Ho; how a poker player can benefit from discrimination by defying stereotypes; Erving Goffman and risk-taking; testosterone; Nate grossing $750,000 in poker; the flow state of gambling under extreme pressure; how Gen Z is more risk-averse than older generations; immigrants as risk-takers; the morality of gambling; addiction; people peeing at slot machines; Fauci's noble lie for masks; the Swedish model during Covid; effective altruism; Obama the poker player being cool under pressure vs. Trump's impulsivity; Truman's gambling mindset and Hiroshima; the online poker boom; how Nate doesn't want to be known as the political forecast guy; the misconception of him as a partisan Dem; Will Stancil; how the economic perceptions of the public are usually accurate; Biden's age; his people blaming the media for his problems; the convention option for switching nominees; the White House not boosting Kamala Harris; her flaming out before Iowa in 2020; Claudine Gay's plagiarism; Twitter under Musk; and, yes, Angry Birds!Browse the Dishcast archive for an episode you might enjoy (the first 102 are free in their entirety — subscribe to get everything else). Coming up: Jeffrey Rosen on the Stoics and happiness, Rob Henderson on class and “luxury beliefs,” Christian Wiman on resisting despair as a Christian, George Will on Trump and conservatism, and Abigail Shrier on why the cult of therapy harms children. Please send any guest recs, dissents, and other pod comments to dish@andrewsullivan.com.

This is a free preview of a paid episode. To hear more, visit andrewsullivan.substack.comMichael Isikoff is the chief investigative correspondent for Yahoo News, where he is also editor-at-large for reporting and investigations. Daniel Klaidman is the editor-in-chief for Yahoo News. The veteran reporters have new a book called Find Me the Votes: A Hard-Charging Georgia Prosecutor, a Rogue President, and the Plot to Steal an American Election.For two clips of our convo — the violent threats spurred by Trump's conspirators, and the hero of the Georgia case — pop over to our YouTube page. Other topics: Mike as head of his college paper during Watergate and then working at the WaPo; Dan growing up with his dad at the WaPo during the WoodStein era; his mother a Holocaust survivor; Georgia as “ground zero for the most undemocratic plot in US history”; the Hugo Chavez conspiracy theory; Sidney Powell plotting a break-in and offering the henchmen preemptive pardons; Giuliani “drunk out of his mind”; the cyber-heist of Dominion software and voter data; Lin Wood and QAnon; the absurd Eastman memo; knowing the 2020 lawsuits would fail but nevertheless pressure the Electors; unfounded claims of ballot stuffing; Ruby Freeman and her daughter; Giuliani's “racial dog whistles”; the infamous call to Raffensperger to “find votes” and “recalculate”; Stacey Abrams; whether Trump cynically or sincerely believed the election was stolen; Mike Flynn; whether the transfer of power was ever really in jeopardy; the principled Pence; the courts holding firm against Trump; autocracy as a “gradual slow burn” (e.g. Hungary); Fani Willis; her Black Panther father who dated Angela Davis; Fani's sexual relationship with a prosecutor in the Georgia case after she hired him; the terrible optics of it all; the tough-on-crime campaign she ran in 2020 and getting endorsed by the police union; Barr and Esper keeping Trump from using the Insurrection Act; Trump fundraising off his mugshot; and whether he will have the same guardrails in a second term.Browse the Dishcast archive for an episode you might enjoy (the first 102 are free in their entirety — subscribe to get everything else). Coming up: Nate Silver on the 2024 race, Christian Wiman on resisting despair as a Christian, Jeffrey Rosen on the pursuit of happiness, George Will on Trump and conservatism, and Abigail Shrier on why the cult of therapy harms children. Please send any guest recs, dissents, and other pod comments to dish@andrewsullivan.com.

I love the Lord and he loves me. I will not forget, and neither will he. That was the poem that a seven-year-old Christian Wiman handed his pastor—during the altar call, no less. The young Wiman didn't wait for a response or say a word, he just ran back to his pew. Soon after, the pastor published Wiman's poem in the Southern Baptist Convention's newsletter. “I gave him a poem,” Wiman says on this episode of The Russell Moore Show. “That was my gesture of salvation.” In the decades since, Wiman has wrestled with his faith, suffered from cancer, and continued to find meaning in writing poetry. On this episode, he and Moore discuss the poetry in Scripture, how Jesus engaged with suffering, and how poetry can help pastors in their preaching. They talk about why poetry can be intimidating, entry points for engaging it, and how poetry can reveal the joy in our lives. Resources mentioned in this episode include: Zero at the Bone: Fifty Entries Against Despair by Christian Wiman My Bright Abyss: Meditation of a Modern Believer by Christian Wiman Joy: 100 Poems edited by Christian Wiman The Tree of Life Frederick Buechner “The Figure a Poem Makes” by Robert Frost Theology and Joy by Jürgen Moltmann “How the Poet Christian Wiman Keeps His Faith” by Casey Cep for The New Yorker W. A. Criswell Abraham Joshua Heschel The Moviegoer by Walker Percy Sara Grant The Sickness unto Death: A Christian Psychological Exposition of Edification & Awakening by Anti-Climacus by Søren Kierkegaard Miroslav Volf “The Ground of Being” Basil Bunting John Milton William Shakespeare William Wordsworth Do you have a question for Russell Moore? Send it to questions@russellmoore.com. Click here for a trial membership at Christianity Today. “The Russell Moore Show” is a production of Christianity Today Executive Producers: Erik Petrik, Russell Moore, and Mike Cosper Host: Russell Moore Producer: Ashley Hales Associate Producers: Abby Perry and McKenzie Hill Director of Operations for CT Media: Matt Stevens Audio engineering by Dan Phelps Video producer: Abby Egan Theme Song: “Dusty Delta Day” by Lennon Hutton Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

This is a free preview of a paid episode. To hear more, visit andrewsullivan.substack.comJustin is a writer and broadcaster who creates dialogue between Christians and non-Christians. He co-hosts the “Re-Enchanting” podcast for Seen & Unseen, and is a guest presenter for the “Maybe God” podcast. He also contributes to Premier Christianity magazine, where he used to be editor. His new book is The Surprising Rebirth of Belief in God, and he has a documentary podcast series of the same name.You can listen right away in the audio player above (or on the right side of the player, click “Listen On” to add the Dishcast feed to your favorite podcast app). For two clips of our convo — on what killed the New Atheist movement, and the infinitesimal odds that life ever emerged — pop over to our YouTube page.Other topics: his parents the “hippies who found Jesus” at Oxford; his early childhood in a Christian commune; the left and right brains of faith; conversion moments; Pascal; Augustine; the evolutionary need for religion; Hitchens and me debating the meaning of life; our disdain for proselytizing; Dawkins and the “mind virus”; atheism and why people “need more than a negative to live on”; my falling away from the Church after the sex-abuse crisis; the quasi-religious movement of BLM and wokeness; its need for purity without grace; the Trump cult; evangelicals drifting from the church-state divide; Christianism; my atheist ex-boyfriend; Ayaan's conversion; Tom Holland; Game of Thrones as medieval Europe without Christianity; how Jesus changed human consciousness forever; Bart Ehrman; debating the details of the Resurrection; the #MeToo movement and the dignity of women; monogamy as a way to protect women from polygamist men; Louise Perry's Case Against Sexual Revolution; how ISIS brought back crucifixion; the chasm between Christianity and its leaders; the many messiahs of the ancient world; psychedelics; sensing my friend Patrick after his death; scientific materialism; Alex Rosenberg's The Atheist's Guide to Reality; the problem of consciousness; panpsychism; Harari on human rights; Paul Davies and the “directionality of life”; logos as logic speaking into chaos; and why “Christianity has to stay weird.”Browse the Dishcast archive for an episode you might enjoy (the first 102 are free in their entirety — subscribe to get everything else). Coming up: Isikoff and Klaidman on Trump's trials; Christian Wiman on resisting despair as a Christian, Nate Silver on the 2024 race, Jeffrey Rosen on the pursuit of happiness, George Will on Trump and conservatism, and Abigail Shrier on why the cult of therapy harms children. Please send any guest recs, dissents, and other pod comments to dish@andrewsullivan.com.

This is a free preview of a paid episode. To hear more, visit andrewsullivan.substack.comJonathan writes a column for The Guardian, hosts their “Politics Weekly America” podcast, and is the co-host of the “Unholy” podcast with Israeli journalist Yonit Levi. He's also the author of The Escape Artist: The Man Who Broke Out of Auschwitz to Warn the World, along with several thrillers under the pseudonym Sam Bourne.For two clips of our convo — on “white supremacy” shifting to “Jewish supremacy,” and a character study of Keir Starmer — pop over to our YouTube page. Other topics: Jonathan covering US politics since the 1992 election; how Hamas didn't expect the IDF failures on 10/7; the PR battle over Gaza; Israel in a “desperately bad place”; Hamas wanting the deaths of civilians on both sides; disturbing quotes from the settler movement; the impossibility of a two-state solution; the crude worldview of the woke left; how progressives have often been “on the wrong side of history” (e.g. eugenics); Jeremy Corbyn and anti-Semitism; his meeting with Hamas and Hezbollah; the hooked-nose mural in East London Corbyn defended; Corbyn insidiously trashing a piece by Jonathan; the abuse hurled at Margaret Hodge as a child of Holocaust survivors; inherited trauma; Keir Starmer's stand against the anti-Semitism in his party; his “Eliot Ness” persona as a chief prosecutor; the likelihood of him being the next PM; Tony Blair's unflattering portrayal in The Crown; Brexit and migrants; the Rwanda Plan; how Biden is fatally weak on immigration; Iowa evangelicals deifying Trump; and Trump as the favorite for winning in the fall.Browse the Dishcast archive for an episode you might enjoy (the first 102 are free in their entirety — subscribe to get everything else). Coming up: Justin Brierley on his book The Surprising Rebirth of Belief of God, Nate Silver on the 2024 race, Christian Wiman on resisting despair as a Christian, Jeffrey Rosen on the pursuit of happiness, George Will on Trump and conservatism, and Abigail Shrier on why the cult of therapy harms children. Please send any guest recs, dissents, and other pod comments to dish@andrewsullivan.com.

Christian Wiman, author of Zero at the Bone: Fifty Entries Against Despair, discusses life after being diagnosed with a rare and incurable form of his cancer and how preparing for death influenced his thought, faith, and poetry. Wiman, the Clement-Muehl Professor of Communication Arts at Yale Divinity School, examines anguish and despair and his “real desire to make faith more the center of my life, not to live it quietly to bring it into my work to bring it into my life.”

This is a free preview of a paid episode. To hear more, visit andrewsullivan.substack.comJeff is a TV journalist and author focused on politics, media, and culture. He's been a senior political correspondent for CBS, a senior analyst for CNN, and a political and media analyst for ABC News. He has authored or co-authored 13 books, including If Kennedy Lived, When Gore Beat Bush, and Then Everything Changed: Stunning Alternate Histories of American Politics.For two clips of our convo — on how dangerous a Trump reelection would be, and how Biden trapped us with terrible prospects against Trump — pop over to our YouTube page. Other topics: growing up in NYC; working on the RFK campaign in ‘68; leaving a lucrative consulting job for journalism; the populist appeal of Pat Buchanan; Newt's pivotal role in polluting politics; how Trump totalized the GOP; his cult following among evangelicals; why he won't be as restrained during a second term; the civil service in his crosshairs; how Haley and DeSantis failed to deploy dissenters who worked for Trump; Mike Lee's surrender as a constitutionalist; Mike Flynn wanting to use the military on Jan 6; the congressmen who didn't vote to impeach out of fear of death threats; our plummeting trust of institutions; Trump countering Jeb over “my brother kept us safe”; Trump priming his base to disbelieve any media reports; the “pathetic miscalculation” of the Resistance that he was finished; the Dems' lost opportunity to take seriously the concerns of his voters; Obama's firm stance on illegal immigration; why legal immigrants dislike open borders; how crime has “bedeviled” the Dems since the '60s; why non-white voters are moving toward Trump; Fetterman changing his tune as a progressive; protesters today don't understand civil disobedience like MLK did; Reagan as a “senior stud” compared to Biden; why Biden is stuck with Harris; how the Ivy League hearings could have been a “Sistah Souljah” moment for Biden; famous moments in debate history; people who could have been great presidents; and Jeff detailing many other counterfactuals from history.Browse the Dishcast archive for an episode you might enjoy (the first 102 are free in their entirety — subscribe to get everything else). Coming up: Jonathan Freedland on anti-Semitism and UK politics, Nate Silver on the 2024 election, Christian Wiman on resisting despair, Justin Brierley on his book The Surprising Rebirth of Belief of God, Jeffrey Rosen on the pursuit of happiness, George Will on Trump and conservatism, and Abigail Shrier on why the cult of therapy harms kids. Please send any guest recs, dissents, and other pod comments to dish@andrewsullivan.com.

Poet and memoirist Christian Wiman has had a rare form of cancer for 18 years. "When death hangs over you for a while, you start to forget about it," he says. Wiman's new book is Zero at the Bone: Fifty Entries Against Despair. Also, David Bianculli reviews the return of Monk in a new movie on Peacock.