Podcasts about energy systems

Today, we break down Galaxy Defense, a sci-fi-themed tower defense/survival clone that's generating $100K/day in IAP with only around 135K DAU.

OPINION: ​Some realities of waste-to-energy systems | Aug. 19, 2025Subscribe to The Manila Times Channel - https://tmt.ph/YTSubscribe Visit our website at https://www.manilatimes.net Follow us: Facebook - https://tmt.ph/facebook Instagram - https://tmt.ph/instagram Twitter - https://tmt.ph/twitter DailyMotion - https://tmt.ph/dailymotion Subscribe to our Digital Edition - https://tmt.ph/digital Check out our Podcasts: Spotify - https://tmt.ph/spotify Apple Podcasts - https://tmt.ph/applepodcasts Amazon Music - https://tmt.ph/amazonmusic Deezer: https://tmt.ph/deezer Stitcher: https://tmt.ph/stitcherTune In: https://tmt.ph/tunein #TheManilaTimes#KeepUpWithTheTimesSubscribe to The Manila Times Channel - https://tmt.ph/YTSubscribe Visit our website at https://www.manilatimes.net Follow us: Facebook - https://tmt.ph/facebook Instagram - https://tmt.ph/instagram Twitter - https://tmt.ph/twitter DailyMotion - https://tmt.ph/dailymotion Subscribe to our Digital Edition - https://tmt.ph/digital Check out our Podcasts: Spotify - https://tmt.ph/spotify Apple Podcasts - https://tmt.ph/applepodcasts Amazon Music - https://tmt.ph/amazonmusic Deezer: https://tmt.ph/deezer Stitcher: https://tmt.ph/stitcherTune In: https://tmt.ph/tunein #TheManilaTimes#KeepUpWithTheTimes Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

OPINION: Some realities of waste-to-energy systems | Aug. 17, 2025Subscribe to The Manila Times Channel - https://tmt.ph/YTSubscribe Visit our website at https://www.manilatimes.net Follow us: Facebook - https://tmt.ph/facebook Instagram - https://tmt.ph/instagram Twitter - https://tmt.ph/twitter DailyMotion - https://tmt.ph/dailymotion Subscribe to our Digital Edition - https://tmt.ph/digital Check out our Podcasts: Spotify - https://tmt.ph/spotify Apple Podcasts - https://tmt.ph/applepodcasts Amazon Music - https://tmt.ph/amazonmusic Deezer: https://tmt.ph/deezer Stitcher: https://tmt.ph/stitcherTune In: https://tmt.ph/tunein #TheManilaTimes#KeepUpWithTheTimesSubscribe to The Manila Times Channel - https://tmt.ph/YTSubscribe Visit our website at https://www.manilatimes.net Follow us: Facebook - https://tmt.ph/facebook Instagram - https://tmt.ph/instagram Twitter - https://tmt.ph/twitter DailyMotion - https://tmt.ph/dailymotion Subscribe to our Digital Edition - https://tmt.ph/digital Check out our Podcasts: Spotify - https://tmt.ph/spotify Apple Podcasts - https://tmt.ph/applepodcasts Amazon Music - https://tmt.ph/amazonmusic Deezer: https://tmt.ph/deezer Stitcher: https://tmt.ph/stitcherTune In: https://tmt.ph/tunein #TheManilaTimes#KeepUpWithTheTimes Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

In this second part of the podcast, Michael Barnard pursues his conversation Paul Martin and Emiel van Druten with explores emerging insights into the Netherlands' energy transition, addressing core assumptions around efficiency, hydrogen usage, and electrification.Building efficiency upgrades yield disappointing returns, with gas consumption often rebounding within 2-4 years post-renovation, limiting achievable reductions to about 50%. The recommended solution is a clear shift toward electrification-first strategies, emphasizing cost-effective insulation to properly size heat pumps, a strategy supported by Heat Geeks' methodology and monitored at heatmonitor.org.Tata Steel's ambitious hydrogen-based direct reduction of iron (DRI) plans illustrate the industrial challenge. The strategy begins with natural gas DRI combined with carbon capture by 2025, transitioning fully to green hydrogen by 2040. However, declining global steel demand, driven by China's reduced infrastructure spending and a shift to scrap-based electric arc furnace production, calls into question the economic viability of domestic hydrogen-based steelmaking. A preferred interim solution involves biogenic methane with CCS, progressing eventually to importing green iron pellets for local processing.Contrary to broader industry forecasts, Dutch hydrogen demand may collapse by as much as 80% by 2050, drastically reducing electrolysis capacity requirements from over 30 GW to around 3 GW, reserved primarily for refineries and biorefineries. This scenario eliminates hydrogen from previously expected uses, such as ammonia production, transportation, steelmaking, and electricity backup generation.Methanol emerges surprisingly as a preferred shipping fuel, surpassing ammonia due to safety advantages and ease of biological sourcing. In aviation, hydrotreated vegetable oil (HVO) derived from waste oils becomes the preferred fuel, driven by its simpler conversion process, though competition for limited feedstocks will favor aviation, pushing shipping toward methanol. Electrification projections for short-sea shipping and inland waterways see significant upward revisions, with long-haul shipping partially electrified due to soaring alternative fuel costs.Transportation electrification accelerates, with full truck electrification anticipated by 2035, eliminating earlier expectations for hydrogen trucks. Industry expert Johnny Ninehuis predicts no diesel trucks sold beyond that point, emphasizing battery technology overcoming heavy transport challenges.The chemical industry faces transformation, with methanol production pathways favoring gasification of waste plastics and biomass, particularly for chemical feedstocks and fuel applications. A smaller, cleaner petrochemical sector will remain viable, shifting to low-sulfur crude and significantly cutting hydrogen demand.System-wide rebalancing adjusts electricity demand growth forecasts downward from a previously projected fivefold increase to approximately 3.5 to 4 times current consumption. This adjustment significantly reduces offshore wind expansion targets, eliminating expensive distant and deep-water installations. Nuclear power is also excluded as non-economic, positioning the Netherlands as a future electricity exporter to neighboring markets, notably southern Germany. Direct air capture and synthetic fuel production are considered economically impractical within the Netherlands, and the fertilizer sector is projected to shift towards ammonia imports as local production becomes increasingly uneconomic. Highlighting broader electrification trends, Fortescue's recent $3 billion investment in electrified mining equipment illustrates a growing momentum towards electrification even in challenging, heavy industrial sectors.    

In this special episode of the REIT Report, part of an ongoing series, “Building Resilience,” covering issues facing the REIT industry as it remains focused on investing for the long term, Michael Reed, senior director of building transformation at the New York State Energy Research and Development Authority (NYSERDA), joins Nareit's Jessica Long, senior vice president of environmental stewardship and sustainability. They discuss the organization's experience working with the commercial real estate community to advance energy efficiency, delivering benefits to the energy system more broadly, including reliability and resilience.Reed shares how NYSERDA has evolved in the 50 years since it was founded as the state's atomic energy agency in the 1970s. “The mission of having energy work for, and benefit, New Yorkers, making that energy as reliable and affordable as possible, has not wavered. The challenges as we look towards the future intersect with this conversation on resilience because our climate in New York and across the world is getting hotter. There's more moisture in the air, leading to extreme weather events, but also making the job of operating buildings harder.” 

We already have many solutions needed to decarbonise the grid, wind, solar, storage, and electrification solutions are proven and ready to go. But the real challenge now is speed: getting these technologies into the market, at scale, in a way that works for consumers, industry, and the grid.It's about optimising what we already have, removing bottlenecks, and aligning the policy, regulation, and market frameworks that will allow these solutions to flourish. From integrating heat pumps at pace to rethinking the incentives that drive investment, the next decade will be defined by how quickly we can turn ambition into delivery.In this episode of Transmission, Guy Newey, Chief Executive of Energy Systems Catapult, joins Ed to explore where the UK's focus should be, how to overcome the biggest barriers to scale, and why putting consumers at the heart of system design is critical to net zero success.key topics covered:Why innovation, not just new inventions, will determine net zero timelines.How to integrate more heat pumps into the energy system at pace.The role of consumer-centric design in decarbonising homes and transport.What market reforms mean for investment and innovation in GB. Where policy and industry alignment is critical to scaling proven tech.About our guestsGuy Newey is Chief Executive of Energy Systems Catapult, the UK's innovation centre dedicated to accelerating the transition to net zero. With a career spanning government policy, think tank leadership, and industry strategy, Guy has worked at the heart of the UK's clean energy transformation. He brings deep expertise in how markets, regulation, and innovation interact and how to turn proven technology into system-wide change. At Energy Systems Catapult, he leads efforts to design, test, and scale the solutions that will decarbonise heat, power, and transport while keeping consumers at the centre of the transition. For more information on what Energy Systems Catapult do - head to their website.About Modo EnergyModo Energy helps the owners, operators, builders, and financiers of battery energy storage solutions understand the market - and make the most out of their assets.All of our podcasts are available to watch or listen to on the Modo Energy site. To keep up with all of our latest updates, research, analysis, videos, podcasts, data visualizations, live events, and more, follow us on LinkedIn. Check out The Energy Academy, our bite-sized video series breaking down how power markets work. Sign up to the Modo Energy Weekly Dispatch for expert insights on energy storage, market shifts, and policy updates - delivered straight to your inbox every week.

We already have many solutions needed to decarbonise the grid, wind, solar, storage, and electrification solutions are proven and ready to go. But the real challenge now is speed: getting these technologies into the market, at scale, in a way that works for consumers, industry, and the grid.It's about optimising what we already have, removing bottlenecks, and aligning the policy, regulation, and market frameworks that will allow these solutions to flourish. From integrating heat pumps at pace to rethinking the incentives that drive investment, the next decade will be defined by how quickly we can turn ambition into delivery.In this episode of Transmission, Guy Newey, Chief Executive of Energy Systems Catapult, joins Ed to explore where the UK's focus should be, how to overcome the biggest barriers to scale, and why putting consumers at the heart of system design is critical to net zero success.key topics covered:Why innovation, not just new inventions, will determine net zero timelines.How to integrate more heat pumps into the energy system at pace.The role of consumer-centric design in decarbonising homes and transport.What market reforms mean for investment and innovation in GB. Where policy and industry alignment is critical to scaling proven tech.About our guestsGuy Newey is Chief Executive of Energy Systems Catapult, the UK's innovation centre dedicated to accelerating the transition to net zero. With a career spanning government policy, think tank leadership, and industry strategy, Guy has worked at the heart of the UK's clean energy transformation. He brings deep expertise in how markets, regulation, and innovation interact and how to turn proven technology into system-wide change. At Energy Systems Catapult, he leads efforts to design, test, and scale the solutions that will decarbonise heat, power, and transport while keeping consumers at the centre of the transition. For more information on what Energy Systems Catapult do - head to their website.About Modo EnergyModo Energy helps the owners, operators, builders, and financiers of battery energy storage solutions understand the market - and make the most out of their assets.All of our podcasts are available to watch or listen to on the Modo Energy site. To keep up with all of our latest updates, research, analysis, videos, podcasts, data visualizations, live events, and more, follow us on LinkedIn. Check out The Energy Academy, our bite-sized video series breaking down how power markets work. Sign up to the Modo Energy Weekly Dispatch for expert insights on energy storage, market shifts, and policy updates - delivered straight to your inbox every week.

Summer rewind: Greg Lindsay is an urban tech expert and a Senior Fellow at MIT. He's also a two-time Jeopardy champion and the only human to go undefeated against IBM's Watson. Greg joins thinkenergy to talk about how artificial intelligence (AI) is reshaping how we manage, consume, and produce energy—from personal devices to provincial grids, its rapid growth to the rising energy demand from AI itself. Listen in to learn how AI impacts our energy systems and what it means individually and industry-wide. Related links: ●       Greg Lindsay website: https://greglindsay.org/ ●       Greg Lindsay on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/greg-lindsay-8b16952/ ●       International Energy Agency (IEA): https://www.iea.org/ ●       Trevor Freeman on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/trevor-freeman-p-eng-cem-leed-ap-8b612114/ ●       Hydro Ottawa: https://hydroottawa.com/en    To subscribe using Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/thinkenergy/id1465129405   To subscribe using Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/7wFz7rdR8Gq3f2WOafjxpl   To subscribe on Libsyn: http://thinkenergy.libsyn.com/ --- Subscribe so you don't miss a video: https://www.youtube.com/user/hydroottawalimited   Follow along on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/hydroottawa   Stay in the know on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/HydroOttawa   Keep up with the posts on X: https://twitter.com/thinkenergypod --- Transcript: Trevor Freeman  00:00 Hi everyone. Well, summer is here, and the think energy team is stepping back a bit to recharge and plan out some content for the next season. We hope all of you get some much needed downtime as well, but we aren't planning on leaving you hanging over the next few months, we will be re releasing some of our favorite episodes from the past year that we think really highlight innovation, sustainability and community. These episodes highlight the changing nature of how we use and manage energy, and the investments needed to expand, modernize and strengthen our grid in response to that. All of this driven by people and our changing needs and relationship to energy as we move forward into a cleaner, more electrified future, the energy transition, as we talk about many times on this show. Thanks so much for listening, and we'll be back with all new content in September. Until then, happy listening.   Trevor Freeman  00:55 Welcome to think energy, a podcast that dives into the fast changing world of energy through conversations with industry leaders, innovators and people on the front lines of the energy transition. Join me, Trevor Freeman, as I explore the traditional, unconventional and up and coming facets of the energy industry. If you have any thoughts feedback or ideas for topics we should cover, please reach out to us at think energy at hydro ottawa.com, Hi everyone. Welcome back. Artificial intelligence, or AI, is a term that you're likely seeing and hearing everywhere today, and with good reason, the effectiveness and efficiency of today's AI, along with the ever increasing applications and use cases mean that in just the past few years, AI went from being a little bit fringe, maybe a little bit theoretical to very real and likely touching everyone's day to day lives in ways that we don't even notice, and we're just at the beginning of what looks to be a wave of many different ways that AI will shape and influence our society and our lives in the years to come. And the world of energy is no different. AI has the potential to change how we manage energy at all levels, from our individual devices and homes and businesses all the way up to our grids at the local, provincial and even national and international levels. At the same time, AI is also a massive consumer of energy, and the proliferation of AI data centers is putting pressure on utilities for more and more power at an unprecedented pace. But before we dive into all that, I also think it will be helpful to define what AI is. After all, the term isn't new. Like me, many of our listeners may have grown up hearing about Skynet from Terminator, or how from 2001 A Space Odyssey, but those malignant, almost sentient versions of AI aren't really what we're talking about here today. And to help shed some light on both what AI is as well as what it can do and how it might influence the world of energy, my guest today is Greg Lindsay, to put it in technical jargon, Greg's bio is super neat, so I do want to take time to run through it properly. Greg is a non resident Senior Fellow of MIT's future urban collectives lab Arizona State University's threat casting lab and the Atlantic Council's Scowcroft center for strategy and security. Most recently, he was a 2022-2023 urban tech Fellow at Cornell Tech's Jacobs Institute, where he explored the implications of AI and augmented reality at an urban scale. Previously, he was an urbanist in resident, which is a pretty cool title, at BMW minis urban tech accelerator, urban X, as well as the director of Applied Research at Montreal's new cities and Founding Director of Strategy at its mobility focused offshoot, co motion. He's advised such firms as Intel, Samsung, Audi, Hyundai, IKEA and Starbucks, along with numerous government entities such as 10 Downing Street, us, Department of Energy and NATO. And finally, and maybe coolest of all, Greg is also a two time Jeopardy champion and the only human to go undefeated against IBM's Watson. So on that note, Greg Lindsey, welcome to the show.   Greg Lindsay  04:14 Great to be here. Thanks for having me. Trevor,   Trevor Freeman  04:16 So Greg, we're here to talk about AI and the impacts that AI is going to have on energy, but AI is a bit of one of those buzzwords that we hear out there in a number of different spheres today. So let's start by setting the stage of what exactly we're talking about. So what do we mean when we say AI or artificial intelligence?   Speaker 1  04:37 Well, I'd say the first thing to keep in mind is that it is neither artificial nor intelligence. It's actually composites of many human hands making it. And of course, it's not truly intelligent either. I think there's at least two definitions for the layman's purposes. One is statistical machine learning. You know that is the previous generation of AI, we could say, doing deep, deep statistical analysis, looking for patterns fitting to. Patterns doing prediction. There's a great book, actually, by some ut professors at monk called prediction machines, which that was a great way of thinking about machine learning and sense of being able to do large scale prediction at scale. And that's how I imagine hydro, Ottawa and others are using this to model out network efficiencies and predictive maintenance and all these great uses. And then the newer, trendier version, of course, is large language models, your quads, your chat gpts, your others, which are based on transformer models, which is a whole series of work that many Canadians worked on, including Geoffrey Hinton and others. And this is what has produced the seemingly magical abilities to produce text and images on demand and large scale analysis. And that is the real power hungry beast that we think of as AI today.   Trevor Freeman  05:42 Right! So different types of AI. I just want to pick those apart a little bit. When you say machine learning, it's kind of being able to repetitively look at something or a set of data over and over and over again. And because it's a computer, it can do it, you know, 1000s or millions of times a second, and learn what, learn how to make decisions based on that. Is that fair to say?   Greg Lindsay  06:06 That's fair to say. And the thing about that is, is like you can train it on an output that you already know, large language models are just vomiting up large parts of pattern recognition, which, again, can feel like magic because of our own human brains doing it. But yeah, machine learning, you can, you know, you can train it to achieve outcomes. You can overfit the models where it like it's trained too much in the past, but, yeah, it's a large scale probabilistic prediction of things, which makes it so powerful for certain uses.   Trevor Freeman  06:26 Yeah, one of the neatest explanations or examples I've seen is, you know, you've got these language models where it seems like this AI, whether it's chat, DBT or whatever, is writing really well, like, you know, it's improving our writing. It's making things sound better. And it seems like it's got a brain behind it, but really, what it's doing is it's going out there saying, What have millions or billions of other people written like this? And how can I take the best things of that? And it can just do that really quickly, and it's learned that that model, so that's super helpful to understand what we're talking about here. So obviously, in your work, you look at the impact of AI on a number of different aspects of our world, our society. What we're talking about here today is particularly the impact of AI when it comes to energy. And I'd like to kind of bucketize our conversation a little bit today, and the first area I want to look at is, what will ai do when it comes to energy for the average Canadian? Let's say so in my home, in my business, how I move around? So I'll start with that. It's kind of a high level conversation. Let's start talking about the different ways that AI will impact you know that our average listener here?   Speaker 1  07:41 Um, yeah, I mean, we can get into a discussion about what it means for the average Canadian, and then also, of course, what it means for Canada in the world as well, because I just got back from South by Southwest in Austin, and, you know, for the second, third year in row, AI was on everyone's lips. But really it's the energy. Is the is the bottleneck. It's the forcing factor. Everyone talked about it, the fact that all the data centers we can get into that are going to be built in the direction of energy. So, so, yeah, energy holds the key to the puzzle there. But, um, you know, from the average gain standpoint, I mean, it's a question of, like, how will these tools actually play out, you know, inside of the companies that are using this, right? And that was a whole other discussion too. It's like, okay, we've been playing around with these tools for two, three years now, what do they actually use to deliver value of your large language model? So I've been saying this for 10 years. If you look at the older stuff you could start with, like smart thermostats, even look at the potential savings of this, of basically using machine learning to optimize, you know, grid optimize patterns of usage, understanding, you know, the ebbs and flows of the grid, and being able to, you know, basically send instructions back and forth. So you know there's stats. You know that, basically you know that you know you could save 10 to 25% of electricity bills. You know, based on this, you could reduce your heating bills by 10 to 15% again, it's basically using this at very large scales of the scale of hydro Ottawa, bigger, to understand this sort of pattern usage. But even then, like understanding like how weather forecasts change, and pulling that data back in to basically make fine tuning adjustments to the thermostats and things like that. So that's one stands out. And then, you know, we can think about longer term. I mean, yeah, lots have been lots has been done on imagining, like electric mobility, of course, huge in Canada, and what that's done to sort of change the overall energy mix virtual power plants. This is something that I've studied, and we've been writing about at Fast Company. At Fast Company beyond for 20 years, imagining not just, you know, the ability to basically, you know, feed renewable electricity back into the grid from people's solar or from whatever sources they have there, but the ability of utilities to basically go in and fine tune, to have that sort of demand shaping as well. And then I think the most interesting stuff, at least in demos, and also blockchain, which has had many theoretical uses, and I've got to see a real one. But one of the best theoretical ones was being able to create neighborhood scale utilities. Basically my cul de sac could have one, and we could trade clean electrons off of our solar panels through our batteries and home scale batteries, using Blockchain to basically balance this out. Yeah, so there's lots of potential, but yeah, it comes back to the notion of people want cheaper utility bills. I did this piece 10 years ago for the Atlantic Council on this we looked at a multi country survey, and the only reason anybody wanted a smart home, which they just were completely skeptical about, was to get those cheaper utility bills. So people pay for that.   Trevor Freeman  10:19 I think it's an important thing to remember, obviously, especially for like the nerds like me, who part of my driver is, I like that cool new tech. I like that thing that I can play with and see my data. But for most people, no matter what we're talking about here, when it comes to that next technology, the goal is make my life a little bit easier, give me more time or whatever, and make things cheaper. And I think especially in the energy space, people aren't putting solar panels on their roof because it looks great. And, yeah, maybe people do think it looks great, but they're putting it up there because they want cheaper electricity. And it's going to be the same when it comes to batteries. You know, there's that add on of resiliency and reliability, but at the end of the day, yeah, I want my bill to be cheaper. And what I'm hearing from you is some of the things we've already seen, like smart thermostats get better as AI gets better. Is that fair to say?   Greg Lindsay  11:12 Well, yeah, on the machine learning side, that you know, you get ever larger data points. This is why data is the coin of the realm. This is why there's a race to collect data on everything. Is why every business model is data collection and everything. Because, yes, not only can they get better, but of course, you know, you compile enough and eventually start finding statistical inferences you never meant to look for. And this is why I've been involved. Just as a side note, for example, of cities that have tried to implement their own data collection of electric scooters and eventually electric vehicles so they could understand these kinds of patterns, it's really the key to anything. And so it's that efficiency throughput which raises some really interesting philosophical questions, particularly about AI like, this is the whole discussion on deep seek. Like, if you make the models more efficient, do you have a Jevons paradox, which is the paradox of, like, the more energy you save through efficiency, the more you consume because you've made it cheaper. So what does this mean that you know that Canadian energy consumption is likely to go up the cleaner and cheaper the electrons get. It's one of those bedeviling sort of functions.   Trevor Freeman  12:06 Yeah interesting. That's definitely an interesting way of looking at it. And you referenced this earlier, and I will talk about this. But at the macro level, the amount of energy needed for these, you know, AI data centers in order to do all this stuff is, you know, we're seeing that explode.   Greg Lindsay  12:22 Yeah, I don't know that. Canadian statistics my fingertips, but I brought this up at Fast Company, like, you know, the IEA, I think International Energy Agency, you know, reported a 4.3% growth in the global electricity grid last year, and it's gonna be 4% this year. That does not sound like much. That is the equivalent of Japan. We're adding in Japan every year to the grid for at least the next two to three years. Wow. And that, you know, that's global South, air conditioning and other needs here too, but that the data centers on top is like the tip of the spear. It's changed all this consumption behavior, where now we're seeing mothballed coal plants and new plants and Three Mile Island come back online, as this race for locking up electrons, for, you know, the race to build God basically, the number of people in AI who think they're literally going to build weekly godlike intelligences, they'll, they won't stop at any expense. And so they will buy as much energy as they can get.   Trevor Freeman  13:09 Yeah, well, we'll get to that kind of grid side of things in a minute. Let's stay at the home first. So when I look at my house, we talked about smart thermostats. We're seeing more and more automation when it comes to our homes. You know, we can program our lights and our door locks and all this kind of stuff. What does ai do in order to make sure that stuff is contributing to efficiency? So I want to do all those fun things, but use the least amount of energy possible.   Greg Lindsay  13:38 Well, you know, I mean, there's, again, there's various metrics there to basically, sort of, you know, program your lights. And, you know, Nest is, you know, Google. Nest is an example of this one, too, in terms of basically learning your ebb and flow and then figuring out how to optimize it over the course of the day. So you can do that, you know, we've seen, again, like the home level. We've seen not only the growth in solar panels, but also in those sort of home battery integration. I was looking up that Tesla Powerwall was doing just great in Canada, until the last couple of months. I assume so, but I it's been, it's been heartening to see that, yeah, this sort of embrace of home energy integration, and so being able to level out, like, peak flow off the grid, so Right? Like being able to basically, at moments of peak demand, to basically draw on your own local resources and reduce that overall strain. So there's been interesting stuff there. But I want to focus for a moment on, like, terms of thinking about new uses. Because, you know, again, going back to how AI will influence the home and automation. You know, Jensen Wong of Nvidia has talked about how this will be the year of robotics. Google, Gemini just applied their models to robotics. There's startups like figure there's, again, Tesla with their optimists, and, yeah, there's a whole strain of thought that we're about to see, like home robotics, perhaps a dream from like, the 50s. I think this is a very Disney World esque Epcot Center, yeah, with this idea of jetsy, yeah, of having home robots doing work. You can see concept videos a figure like doing the actual vacuuming. I mean, we invented Roombas to this, but, but it also, I, you know, I've done a lot of work. Our own thinking around electric delivery vehicles. We could talk a lot about drones. We could talk a lot about the little robots that deliver meals on the sidewalk. There's a lot of money in business models about increasing access and people needing to maybe move less, to drive and do all these trips to bring it to them. And that's a form of home automation, and that's all batteries. That is all stuff off the grid too. So AI is that enable those things, these things that can think and move and fly and do stuff and do services on your behalf, and so people might find this huge new source of demand from that as well.   Trevor Freeman  15:29 Yeah, that's I hadn't really thought about the idea that all the all these sort of conveniences and being able to summon them to our homes cause us to move around less, which also impacts transportation, which is another area I kind of want to get to. And I know you've, you've talked a little bit about E mobility, so where do you see that going? And then, how does AI accelerate that transition, or accelerate things happening in that space?   Greg Lindsay  15:56 Yeah, I mean, I again, obviously the EV revolutions here Canada like, one of the epicenters Canada, Norway there, you know, that still has the vehicle rebates and things. So, yeah. I mean, we've seen, I'm here in Montreal, I think we've got, like, you know, 30 to 13% of sales is there, and we've got our 2035, mandate. So, yeah. I mean, you see this push, obviously, to harness all of Canada's clean, mostly hydro electricity, to do this, and, you know, reduce its dependence on fossil fuels for either, you know, Climate Change Politics reasons, but also just, you know, variable energy prices. So all of that matters. But, you know, I think the key to, like the electric mobility revolution, again, is, is how it's going to merge with AI and it's, you know, it's not going to just be the autonomous, self driving car, which is sort of like the horseless carriage of autonomy. It's gonna be all this other stuff, you know. My friend Dan Hill was in China, and he was thinking about like, electric scooters, you know. And I mentioned this to hydro Ottawa, like, the electric scooter is one of the leading causes of how we've taken internal combustion engine vehicles offline across the world, mostly in China, and put people on clean electric motors. What happens when you take those and you make those autonomous, and you do it with, like, deep seek and some cameras, and you sort of weld it all together so you could have a world of a lot more stuff in motion, and not just this world where we have to drive as much. And that, to me, is really exciting, because that changes, like urban patterns, development patterns, changes how you move around life, those kinds of things as well. That's that might be a little farther out, but, but, yeah, this sort of like this big push to build out domestic battery industries, to build charging points and the sort of infrastructure there, I think it's going to go in direction, but it doesn't look anything like, you know, a sedan or an SUV that just happens to be electric.   Trevor Freeman  17:33 I think that's a the step change is change the drive train of the existing vehicles we have, you know, an internal combustion to a battery. The exponential change is exactly what you're saying. It's rethinking this.   Greg Lindsay  17:47 Yeah, Ramesam and others have pointed out, I mean, again, like this, you know, it's, it's really funny to see this pushback on EVs, you know. I mean, I love a good, good roar of an internal combustion engine myself, but, but like, you know, Ramesam was an energy analyst, has pointed out that, like, you know, EVS were more cost competitive with ice cars in 2018 that's like, nearly a decade ago. And yeah, the efficiency of electric motors, particularly regenerative braking and everything, it just blows the cost curves away of ice though they will become the equivalent of keeping a thorough brat around your house kind of thing. Yeah, so, so yeah, it's just, it's that overall efficiency of the drive train. And that's the to me, the interesting thing about both electric motors, again, of autonomy is like, those are general purpose technologies. They get cheaper and smaller as they evolve under Moore's Law and other various laws, and so they get to apply to more and more stuff.   Trevor Freeman  18:32 Yeah. And then when you think about once, we kind of figure that out, and we're kind of already there, or close to it, if not already there, then it's opening the door to those other things you're talking about. Of, well, do we, does everybody need to have that car in their driveway? Are we rethinking how we're actually just doing transportation in general? And do we need a delivery truck? Or can it be delivery scooter? Or what does that look like?   Greg Lindsay  18:54 Well, we had a lot of those discussions for a long time, particularly in the mobility space, right? Like, and like ride hailing, you know, like, oh, you know, that was always the big pitch of an Uber is, you know, your car's parked in your driveway, like 94% of the time. You know, what happens if you're able to have no mobility? Well, we've had 15 years of Uber and these kinds of services, and we still have as many cars. But people are also taking this for mobility. It's additive. And I raised this question, this notion of like, it's just sort of more and more, more options, more availability, more access. Because the same thing seems to be going on with energy now too. You know, listeners been following along, like the conversation in Houston, you know, a week or two ago at Sarah week, like it's the whole notion of energy realism. And, you know, there's the new book out, more is more is more, which is all about the fact that we've never had an energy transition. We just kept piling up. Like the world burned more biomass last year than it did in 1900 it burned more coal last year than it did at the peak of coal. Like these ages don't really end. They just become this sort of strata as we keep piling energy up on top of it. And you know, I'm trying to sound the alarm that we won't have an energy transition. What that means for climate change? But similar thing, it's. This rebound effect, the Jevons paradox, named after Robert Stanley Jevons in his book The question of coal, where he noted the fact that, like, England was going to need more and more coal. So it's a sobering thought. But, like, I mean, you know, it's a glass half full, half empty in many ways, because the half full is like increasing technological options, increasing changes in lifestyle. You can live various ways you want, but, but, yeah, it's like, I don't know if any of it ever really goes away. We just get more and more stuff,   Trevor Freeman  20:22 Exactly, well. And, you know, to hear you talk about the robotics side of things, you know, looking at the home, yeah, more, definitely more. Okay, so we talked about kind of home automation. We've talked about transportation, how we get around. What about energy management? And I think about this at the we'll talk about the utility side again in a little bit. But, you know, at my house, or for my own personal use in my life, what is the role of, like, sort of machine learning and AI, when it comes to just helping me manage my own energy better and make better decisions when it comes to energy? ,   Greg Lindsay  20:57 Yeah, I mean, this is where it like comes in again. And you know, I'm less and less of an expert here, but I've been following this sort of discourse evolve. And right? It's the idea of, you know, yeah, create, create. This the set of tools in your home, whether it's solar panels or batteries or, you know, or Two Way Direct, bi directional to the grid, however it works. And, yeah, and people, you know, given this option of savings, and perhaps, you know, other marketing messages there to curtail behavior. You know? I mean, I think the short answer the question is, like, it's an app people want, an app that tell them basically how to increase the efficiency of their house or how to do this. And I should note that like, this has like been the this is the long term insight when it comes to like energy and the clean tech revolution. Like my Emery Levin says this great line, which I've always loved, which is, people don't want energy. They want hot showers and cold beer. And, you know, how do you, how do you deliver those things through any combination of sticks and carrots, basically like that. So, So, hence, why? Like, again, like, you know, you know, power walls, you know, and, and, and, you know, other sort of AI controlled batteries here that basically just sort of smooth out to create the sort of optimal flow of electrons into your house, whether that's coming drive directly off the grid or whether it's coming out of your backup and then recharging that the time, you know, I mean, the surveys show, like, more than half of Canadians are interested in this stuff, you know, they don't really know. I've got one set here, like, yeah, 61% are interested in home energy tech, but only 27 understand, 27% understand how to optimize them. So, yeah. So people need, I think, perhaps, more help in handing that over. And obviously, what's exciting for the, you know, the utility level is, like, you know, again, aggregate all that individual behavior together and you get more models that, hope you sort of model this out, you know, at both greater scale and ever more fine grained granularity there. So, yeah, exactly. So I think it's really interesting, you know, I don't know, like, you know, people have gamified it. What was it? I think I saw, like, what is it? The affordability fund trust tried to basically gamify AI energy apps, and it created various savings there. But a lot of this is gonna be like, as a combination like UX design and incentives design and offering this to people too, about, like, why you should want this and money's one reason, but maybe there's others.   Trevor Freeman  22:56 Yeah, and we talk about in kind of the utility sphere, we talk about how customers, they don't want all the data, and then have to go make their own decisions. They want those decisions to be made for them, and they want to say, look, I want to have you tell me the best rate plan to be on. I want to have you automatically switch me to the best rate plan when my consumption patterns change and my behavior chat patterns change. That doesn't exist today, but sort of that fast decision making that AI brings will let that become a reality sometime in the future,   Greg Lindsay  23:29 And also in theory, this is where LLMs come into play. Is like, you know, to me, what excites me the most about that is the first time, like having a true natural language interface, like having being able to converse with an, you know, an AI, let's hopefully not chat bot. I think we're moving out on chat bots, but some sort of sort of instantiation of an AI to be like, what plan should I be on? Can you tell me what my behavior is here and actually having some sort of real language conversation with it? Not decision trees, not event statements, not chat bots.   Trevor Freeman  23:54 Yeah, absolutely. Okay, so we've kind of teased around this idea of looking at the utility levels, obviously, at hydro Ottawa, you referenced this just a minute ago. We look at all these individual cases, every home that has home automation or solar storage, and we want to aggregate that and understand what, what can we do to help manage the grid, help manage all these new energy needs, shift things around. So let's talk a little bit about the role that AI can play at the utility scale in helping us manage the grid.   Greg Lindsay  24:28 All right? Well, yeah, there's couple ways to approach it. So one, of course, is like, let's go back to, like, smart meters, right? Like, and this is where I don't know how many hydro Ottawa has, but I think, like, BC Hydro has like, 2 million of them, sometimes they get politicized, because, again, this gets back to this question of, like, just, just how much nanny state you want. But, you know, you know, when you reach the millions, like, yeah, you're able to get that sort of, you know, obviously real time, real time usage, real time understanding. And again, if you can do that sort of grid management piece where you can then push back, it's visual game changer. But, but yeah. I mean, you know, yeah, be. See hydro is pulling in. I think I read like, like, basically 200 million data points a day. So that's a lot to train various models on. And, you know, I don't know exactly the kind of savings they have, but you can imagine there, whether it's, you know, them, or Toronto Hydro, or hydro Ottawa and others creating all these monitoring points. And again, this is the thing that bedells me, by the way, just philosophically about modern life, the notion of like, but I don't want you to be collecting data off me at all times, but look at what you can do if you do It's that constant push pull of some sort of combination of privacy and agency, and then just the notion of like statistics, but, but there you are, but, but, yeah, but at the grid level, then I mean, like, yeah. I mean, you can sort of do the same thing where, like, you know, I mean, predictive maintenance is the obvious one, right? I have been writing about this for large enterprise software companies for 20 years, about building these data points, modeling out the lifetime of various important pieces equipment, making sure you replace them before you have downtime and terrible things happen. I mean, as we're as we're discussing this, look at poor Heathrow Airport. I am so glad I'm not flying today, electrical substation blowing out two days of the world's most important hub offline. So that's where predictive maintenance comes in from there. And, yeah, I mean, I, you know, I again, you know, modeling out, you know, energy flow to prevent grid outages, whether that's, you know, the ice storm here in Quebec a couple years ago. What was that? April 23 I think it was, yeah, coming up in two years. Or our last ice storm, we're not the big one, but that one, you know, where we had big downtime across the grid, like basically monitoring that and then I think the other big one for AI is like, Yeah, is this, this notion of having some sort of decision support as well, too, and sense of, you know, providing scenarios and modeling out at scale the potential of it? And I don't think, I don't know about this in a grid case, but the most interesting piece I wrote for Fast Company 20 years ago was an example, ago was an example of this, which was a fledgling air taxi startup, but they were combining an agent based model, so using primitive AI to create simple rules for individual agents and build a model of how they would behave, which you can create much more complex models. Now we could talk about agents and then marrying that to this kind of predictive maintenance and operations piece, and marrying the two together. And at that point, you could have a company that didn't exist, but that could basically model itself in real time every day in the life of what it is. You can create millions and millions and millions of Monte Carlo operations. And I think that's where perhaps both sides of AI come together truly like the large language models and agents, and then the predictive machine learning. And you could basically hydro or others, could build this sort of deep time machine where you can model out all of these scenarios, millions and millions of years worth, to understand how it flows and contingencies as well. And that's where it sort of comes up. So basically something happens. And like, not only do you have a set of plans, you have an AI that has done a million sets of these plans, and can imagine potential next steps of this, or where to deploy resources. And I think in general, that's like the most powerful use of this, going back to prediction machines and just being able to really model time in a way that we've never had that capability before. And so you probably imagine the use is better than I.   Trevor Freeman  27:58 Oh man, it's super fascinating, and it's timely. We've gone through the last little while at hydro Ottawa, an exercise of updating our playbook for emergencies. So when there are outages, what kind of outage? What's the sort of, what are the trigger points to go from, you know, what we call a level one to a level two to level three. But all of this is sort of like people hours that are going into that, and we're thinking through these scenarios, and we've got a handful of them, and you're just kind of making me think, well, yeah, what if we were able to model that out? And you bring up this concept of agents, let's tease into that a little bit explain what you mean when you're talking about agents.   Greg Lindsay  28:36 Yeah, so agentic systems, as the term of art is, AI instantiations that have some level of autonomy. And the archetypal example of this is the Stanford Smallville experiment, where they took basically a dozen large language models and they gave it an architecture where they could give it a little bit of backstory, ruminate on it, basically reflect, think, decide, and then act. And in this case, they used it to plan a Valentine's Day party. So they played out real time, and the LLM agents, like, even played matchmaker. They organized the party, they sent out invitations, they did these sorts of things. Was very cute. They put it out open source, and like, three weeks later, another team of researchers basically put them to work writing software programs. So you can see they organized their own workflow. They made their own decisions. There was a CTO. They fact check their own work. And this is evolving into this grand vision of, like, 1000s, millions of agents, just like, just like you spin up today an instance of Amazon Web Services to, like, host something in the cloud. You're going to spin up an agent Nvidia has talked about doing with healthcare and others. So again, coming back to like, the energy implications of that, because it changes the whole pattern. Instead of huge training runs requiring giant data centers. You know, it's these agents who are making all these calls and doing more stuff at the edge, but, um, but yeah, in this case, it's the notion of, you know, what can you put the agents to work doing? And I bring this up again, back to, like, predictive maintenance, or for hydro Ottawa, there's another amazing paper called virtual in real life. And I chatted with one of the principal authors. It created. A half dozen agents who could play tour guide, who could direct you to a coffee shop, who do these sorts of things, but they weren't doing it in a virtual world. They were doing it in the real one. And to do it in the real world, you took the agent, you gave them a machine vision capability, so added that model so they could recognize objects, and then you set them loose inside a digital twin of the world, in this case, something very simple, Google Street View. And so in the paper, they could go into like New York Central Park, and they could count every park bench and every waste bin and do it in seconds and be 99% accurate. And so agents were monitoring the landscape. Everything's up, because you can imagine this in the real world too, that we're going to have all the time. AIS roaming the world, roaming these virtual maps, these digital twins that we build for them and constantly refresh from them, from camera data, from sensor data, from other stuff, and tell us what this is. And again, to me, it's really exciting, because that's finally like an operating system for the internet of things that makes sense, that's not so hardwired that you can ask agents, can you go out and look for this for me? Can you report back on this vital system for me? And they will be able to hook into all of these kinds of representations of real time data where they're emerging from, and give you aggregated reports on this one. And so, you know, I think we have more visibility in real time into the real world than we've ever had before.   Trevor Freeman  31:13 Yeah, I want to, I want to connect a few dots here for our listeners. So bear with me for a second. Greg. So for our listeners, there was a podcast episode we did about a year ago on our grid modernization roadmap, and we talked about one of the things we're doing with grid modernization at hydro Ottawa and utilities everywhere doing this is increasing the sensor data from our grid. So we're, you know, right now, we've got visibility sort of to our station level, sometimes one level down to some switches. But in the future, we'll have sensors everywhere on our grid, every switch, every device on our grid, will have a sensor gathering data. Obviously, you know, like you said earlier, millions and hundreds of millions of data points every second coming in. No human can kind of make decisions on that, and what you're describing is, so now we've got all this data points, we've got a network of information out there, and you could create this agent to say, Okay, you are. You're my transformer agent. Go out there and have a look at the run temperature of every transformer on the network, and tell me where the anomalies are, which ones are running a half a degree or two degrees warmer than they should be, and report back. And now I know hydro Ottawa, that the controller, the person sitting in the room, knows, Hey, we should probably go roll a truck and check on that transformer, because maybe it's getting end of life. Maybe it's about to go and you can do that across the entire grid. That's really fascinating,   Greg Lindsay  32:41 And it's really powerful, because, I mean, again, these conversations 20 years ago at IoT, you know you're going to have statistical triggers, and you would aggregate these data coming off this, and there was a lot of discussion there, but it was still very, like hardwired, and still very Yeah, I mean, I mean very probabilistic, I guess, for a word that went with agents like, yeah, you've now created an actual thing that can watch those numbers and they can aggregate from other systems. I mean, lots, lots of potential there hasn't quite been realized, but it's really exciting stuff. And this is, of course, where that whole direction of the industry is flowing. It's on everyone's lips, agents.   Trevor Freeman  33:12 Yeah. Another term you mentioned just a little bit ago that I want you to explain is a digital twin. So tell us what a digital twin is.   Greg Lindsay  33:20 So a digital twin is, well, the matrix. Perhaps you could say something like this for listeners of a certain age, but the digital twin is the idea of creating a model of a piece of equipment, of a city, of the world, of a system. And it is, importantly, it's physics based. It's ideally meant to represent and capture the real time performance of the physical object it's based on, and in this digital representation, when something happens in the physical incarnation of it, it triggers a corresponding change in state in the digital twin, and then vice versa. In theory, you know, you could have feedback loops, again, a lot of IoT stuff here, if you make changes virtually, you know, perhaps it would cause a change in behavior of the system or equipment, and the scales can change from, you know, factory equipment. Siemens, for example, does a lot of digital twin work on this. You know, SAP, big, big software companies have thought about this. But the really crazy stuff is, like, what Nvidia is proposing. So first they started with a digital twin. They very modestly called earth two, where they were going to model all the weather and climate systems of the planet down to like the block level. There's a great demo of like Jensen Wong walking you through a hurricane, typhoons striking the Taipei, 101, and how, how the wind currents are affecting the various buildings there, and how they would change that more recently, what Nvidia is doing now is, but they just at their big tech investor day, they just partner with General Motors and others to basically do autonomous cars. And what's crucial about it, they're going to train all those autonomous vehicles in an NVIDIA built digital twin in a matrix that will act, that will be populated by agents that will act like people, people ish, and they will be able to run millions of years of autonomous vehicle training in this and this is how they plan to catch up to. Waymo or, you know, if Tesla's robotaxis are ever real kind of thing, you know, Waymo built hardwired like trained on real world streets, and that's why they can only operate in certain operating domain environments. Nvidia is gambling that with large language models and transformer models combined with digital twins, you can do these huge leapfrog effects where you can basically train all sorts of synthetic agents in real world behavior that you have modeled inside the machine. So again, that's the kind, that's exactly the kind of, you know, environment that you're going to train, you know, your your grid of the future on for modeling out all your contingency scenarios.   Trevor Freeman  35:31 Yeah, again, you know, for to bring this to the to our context, a couple of years ago, we had our the direcco. It's a big, massive windstorm that was one of the most damaging storms that we've had in Ottawa's history, and we've made some improvements since then, and we've actually had some great performance since then. Imagine if we could model that derecho hitting our grid from a couple different directions and figure out, well, which lines are more vulnerable to wind speeds, which lines are more vulnerable to flying debris and trees, and then go address that and do something with that, without having to wait for that storm to hit. You know, once in a decade or longer, the other use case that we've talked about on this one is just modeling what's happening underground. So, you know, in an urban environments like Ottawa, like Montreal, where you are, there's tons of infrastructure under the ground, sewer pipes, water pipes, gas lines, electrical lines, and every time the city wants to go and dig up a road and replace that road, replace that sewer, they have to know what's underground. We want to know what's underground there, because our infrastructure is under there. As the electric utility. Imagine if you had a model where you can it's not just a map. You can actually see what's happening underground and determine what makes sense to go where, and model out these different scenarios of if we underground this line or that line there. So lots of interesting things when it comes to a digital twin. The digital twin and Agent combination is really interesting as well, and setting those agents loose on a model that they can play with and understand and learn from. So talk a little bit about.   Greg Lindsay  37:11 that. Yeah. Well, there's a couple interesting implications just the underground, you know, equipment there. One is interesting because in addition to, like, you know, you know, having captured that data through mapping and other stuff there, and having agents that could talk about it. So, you know, next you can imagine, you know, I've done some work with augmented reality XR. This is sort of what we're seeing again, you know, meta Orion has shown off their concept. Google's brought back Android XR. Meta Ray Bans are kind of an example of this. But that's where this data will come from, right? It's gonna be people wearing these wearables in the world, capturing all this camera data and others that's gonna be fed into these digital twins to refresh them. Meta has a particularly scary demo where you know where you the user, the wearer leaves their keys on their coffee table and asks metas, AI, where their coffee where their keys are, and it knows where they are. It tells them and goes back and shows them some data about it. I'm like, well, to do that, meta has to have a complete have a complete real time map of your entire house. What could go wrong. And that's what all these companies aspire to of reality. So, but yeah, you can imagine, you know, you can imagine a worker. And I've worked with a startup out of urban X, a Canada startup, Canadian startup called context steer. And you know, is the idea of having real time instructions and knowledge manuals available to workers, particularly predictive maintenance workers and line workers. So you can imagine a technician dispatched to deal with this cut in the pavement and being able to see with XR and overlay of like, what's actually under there from the digital twin, having an AI basically interface with what's sort of the work order, and basically be your assistant that can help you walk you through it, in case, you know, you run into some sort of complication there, hopefully that won't be, you know, become like, turn, turn by turn, directions for life that gets into, like, some of the questions about what we wanted out of our workforce. But there's some really interesting combinations of those things, of like, you know, yeah, mapping a world for AIS, ais that can understand it, that could ask questions in it, that can go probe it, that can give you advice on what to do in it. All those things are very close for good and for bad.   Trevor Freeman  39:03 You kind of touched on my next question here is, how do we make sure this is all in the for good or mostly in the for good category, and not the for bad category you talk in one of the papers that you wrote about, you know, AI and augmented reality in particular, really expanding the attack surface for malicious actors. So we're creating more opportunities for whatever the case may be, if it's hacking or if it's malware, or if it's just, you know, people that are up to nefarious things. How do we protect against that? How do we make sure that our systems are safe that the users of our system. So in our case, our customers, their data is safe, their the grid is safe. How do we make sure that?   Greg Lindsay  39:49 Well, the very short version is, whatever we're spending on cybersecurity, we're not spending enough. And honestly, like everybody who is no longer learning to code, because we can be a quad or ChatGPT to do it, I. Is probably there should be a whole campaign to repurpose a big chunk of tech workers into cybersecurity, into locking down these systems, into training ethical systems. There's a lot of work to be done there. But yeah, that's been the theme for you know that I've seen for 10 years. So that paper I mentioned about sort of smart homes, the Internet of Things, and why people would want a smart home? Well, yeah, the reason people were skeptical is because they saw it as basically a giant attack vector. My favorite saying about this is, is, there's a famous Arthur C Clarke quote that you know, any sufficiently advanced technology is magic Tobias Ravel, who works at Arup now does their head of foresight has this great line, any sufficiently advanced hacking will feel like a haunting meaning. If you're in a smart home that's been hacked, it will feel like you're living in a haunted house. Lights will flicker on and off, and systems will turn and go haywire. It'll be like you're living with a possessed house. And that's true of cities or any other systems. So we need to do a lot of work on just sort of like locking that down and securing that data, and that is, you know, we identified, then it has to go all the way up and down the supply chain, like you have to make sure that there is, you know, a chain of custody going back to when components are made, because a lot of the attacks on nest, for example. I mean, you want to take over a Google nest, take it off the wall and screw the back out of it, which is a good thing. It's not that many people are prying open our thermostats, but yeah, if you can get your hands on it, you can do a lot of these systems, and you can do it earlier in the supply chain and sorts of infected pieces and things. So there's a lot to be done there. And then, yeah, and then, yeah, and then there's just a question of, you know, making sure that the AIs are ethically trained and reinforced. And, you know, a few people want to listeners, want to scare themselves. You can go out and read some of the stuff leaking out of anthropic and others and make clot of, you know, models that are trying to hide their own alignments and trying to, like, basically copy themselves. Again, I don't believe that anything things are alive or intelligent, but they exhibit these behaviors as part of the probabilistic that's kind of scary. So there's a lot to be done there. But yeah, we worked on this, the group that I do foresight with Arizona State University threat casting lab. We've done some work for the Secret Service and for NATO and, yeah, there'll be, you know, large scale hackings on infrastructure. Basically the equivalent can be the equivalent can be the equivalent to a weapons of mass destruction attack. We saw how Russia targeted in 2014 the Ukrainian grid and hacked their nuclear plans. This is essential infrastructure more important than ever, giving global geopolitics say the least, so that needs to be under consideration. And I don't know, did I scare you enough yet? What are the things we've talked through here that, say the least about, you know, people being, you know, tricked and incepted by their AI girlfriends, boyfriends. You know people who are trying to AI companions. I can't possibly imagine what could go wrong there.   Trevor Freeman  42:29 I mean, it's just like, you know, I don't know if this is 15 or 20, or maybe even 25 years ago now, like, it requires a whole new level of understanding when we went from a completely analog world to a digital world and living online, and people, I would hope, to some degree, learned to be skeptical of things on the internet and learned that this is that next level. We now need to learn the right way of interacting with this stuff. And as you mentioned, building the sort of ethical code and ethical guidelines into these language models into the AI. Learning is pretty critical for our listeners. We do have a podcast episode on cybersecurity. I encourage you to go listen to it and reassure yourself that, yes, we are thinking about this stuff. And thanks, Greg, you've given us lots more to think about in that area as well. When it comes to again, looking back at utilities and managing the grid, one thing we're going to see, and we've talked a lot about this on the show, is a lot more distributed generation. So we're, you know, the days of just the central, large scale generation, long transmission lines that being the only generation on the grid. Those days are ending. We're going to see more distributed generations, solar panels on roofs, batteries. How does AI help a utility manage those better, interact with those better get more value out of those things?   Greg Lindsay  43:51 I guess that's sort of like an extension of some of the trends I was talking about earlier, which is the notion of, like, being able to model complex systems. I mean, that's effectively it, right, like you've got an increasingly complex grid with complex interplays between it, you know, figuring out how to basically based on real world performance, based on what you're able to determine about where there are correlations and codependencies in the grid, where point where choke points could emerge, where overloading could happen, and then, yeah, basically, sort of building that predictive system to Basically, sort of look for what kind of complex emergent behavior comes out of as you keep adding to it and and, you know, not just, you know, based on, you know, real world behavior, but being able to dial that up to 11, so to speak, and sort of imagine sort of these scenarios, or imagine, you know, what, what sort of long term scenarios look like in terms of, like, what the mix, how the mix changes, how the geography changes, all those sorts of things. So, yeah, I don't know how that plays out in the short term there, but it's this combination, like I'm imagining, you know, all these different components playing SimCity for real, if one will.   Trevor Freeman  44:50 And being able to do it millions and millions and millions of times in a row, to learn every possible iteration and every possible thing that might happen. Very cool. Okay. So last kind of area I want to touch on you did mention this at the beginning is the the overall power implications of of AI, of these massive data centers, obviously, at the utility, that's something we are all too keenly aware of. You know, the stat that that I find really interesting is a normal Google Search compared to, let's call it a chat GPT search. That chat GPT search, or decision making, requires 10 times the amount of energy as that just normal, you know, Google Search looking out from a database. Do you see this trend? I don't know if it's a trend. Do you see this continuing like AI is just going to use more power to do its decision making, or will we start to see more efficiencies there? And the data centers will get better at doing what they do with less energy. What is the what does the future look like in that sector?   Greg Lindsay  45:55 All the above. It's more, is more, is more! Is the trend, as far as I can see, and every decision maker who's involved in it. And again, Jensen Wong brought this up at the big Nvidia Conference. That basically he sees the only constraint on this continuing is availability of energy supplies keep it going and South by Southwest. And in some other conversations I've had with bandwidth companies, telcos, like laying 20 lumen technologies, United States is laying 20,000 new miles of fiber optic cables. They've bought 10% of Corning's total fiber optic output for the next couple of years. And their customers are the hyperscalers. They're, they're and they're rewiring the grid. That's why, I think it's interesting. This has something, of course, for thinking about utilities, is, you know, the point to point Internet of packet switching and like laying down these big fiber routes, which is why all the big data centers United States, the majority of them, are in north of them are in Northern Virginia, is because it goes back to the network hub there. Well, lumen is now wiring this like basically this giant fabric, this patchwork, which can connect data center to data center, and AI to AI and cloud to cloud, and creating this entirely new environment of how they are all directly connected to each other through some of this dedicated fiber. And so you can see how this whole pattern is changing. And you know, the same people are telling me that, like, yeah, the where they're going to build this fiber, which they wouldn't tell me exactly where, because it's very tradable, proprietary information, but, um, but it's following the energy supplies. It's following the energy corridors to the American Southwest, where there's solar and wind in Texas, where you can get natural gas, where you can get all these things. It will follow there. And I of course, assume the same is true in Canada as we build out our own sovereign data center capacity for this. So even, like deep seek, for example, you know, which is, of course, the hyper efficient Chinese model that spooked the markets back in January. Like, what do you mean? We don't need a trillion dollars in capex? Well, everyone's quite confident, including again, Jensen Wong and everybody else that, yeah, the more efficient models will increase this usage. That Jevons paradox will play out once again, and we'll see ever more of it. To me, the question is, is like as how it changes? And of course, you know, you know, this is a bubble. Let's, let's, let's be clear, data centers are a bubble, just like railroads in 1840 were a bubble. And there will be a bust, like not everyone's investments will pencil out that infrastructure will remain maybe it'll get cheaper. We find new uses for it, but it will, it will eventually bust at some point and that's what, to me, is interesting about like deep seeking, more efficient models. Is who's going to make the wrong investments in the wrong places at the wrong time? But you know, we will see as it gathers force and agents, as I mentioned. You know, they don't require, as much, you know, these monstrous training runs at City sized data centers. You know, meta wanted to spend $200 billion on a single complex, the open AI, Microsoft, Stargate, $500 billion Oracle's. Larry Ellison said that $100 billion is table stakes, which is just crazy to think about. And, you know, he's permitting three nukes on site. So there you go. I mean, it'll be fascinating to see if we have a new generation of private, private generation, right, like, which is like harkening all the way back to, you know, the early electrical grid and companies creating their own power plants on site, kind of stuff. Nicholas Carr wrote a good book about that one, about how we could see from the early electrical grid how the cloud played out. They played out very similarly. The AI cloud seems to be playing out a bit differently. So, so, yeah, I imagine that as well, but, but, yeah, well, inference happen at the edge. We need to have more distributed generation, because you're gonna have AI agents that are going to be spending more time at the point of request, whether that's a laptop or your phone or a light post or your autonomous vehicle, and it's going to need more of that generation and charging at the edge. That, to me, is the really interesting question. Like, you know, when these current generation models hit their limits, and just like with Moore's law, like, you know, you have to figure out other efficiencies in designing chips or designing AIS, how will that change the relationship to the grid? And I don't think anyone knows quite for sure yet, which is why they're just racing to lock up as many long term contracts as they possibly can just get it all, core to the market.   Trevor Freeman  49:39 Yeah, it's just another example, something that comes up in a lot of different topics that we cover on this show. Everything, obviously, is always related to the energy transition. But the idea that the energy transition is really it's not just changing fuel sources, like we talked about earlier. It's not just going from internal combustion to a battery. It's rethinking the. Relationship with energy, and it's rethinking how we do things. And, yeah, you bring up, like, more private, massive generation to deal with these things. So really, that whole relationship with energy is on scale to change. Greg, this has been a really interesting conversation. I really appreciate it. Lots to pack into this short bit of time here. We always kind of wrap up our conversations with a series of questions to our guests. So I'm going to fire those at you here. And this first one, I'm sure you've got lots of different examples here, so feel free to give more than one. What is a book that you've read that you think everybody should read?   Greg Lindsay  50:35 The first one that comes to mind is actually William Gibson's Neuromancer, which is which gave the world the notion of cyberspace and so many concepts. But I think about it a lot today. William Gibson, Vancouver based author, about how much in that book is something really think about. There is a digital twin in it, an agent called the Dixie flatline. It's like a former program where they cloned a digital twin of him. I've actually met an engineering company, Thornton Thomas Eddie that built a digital twin of one of their former top experts. So like that became real. Of course, the matrix is becoming real the Turing police. Yeah, there's a whole thing in there where there's cops to make sure that AIS don't get smarter. I've been thinking a lot about, do we need Turing police? The EU will probably create them. And so that's something where you know the proof, again, of like science fiction, its ability in world building to really make you think about these implications and help for contingency planning. A lot of foresight experts I work with think about sci fi, and we use sci fi for exactly that reason. So go read some classic cyberpunk, everybody.   Trevor Freeman  51:32 Awesome. So same question. But what's a movie or a show that you think everybody should take a look at?   Greg Lindsay  51:38 I recently watched the watch the matrix with ideas, which is fun to think about, where the villains are, agents that villains are agents. That's funny how that terms come back around. But the other one was thinking about the New Yorker recently read a piece on global demographics and the fact that, you know, globally, less and less children. And it made several references to Alfonso Quons, Children of Men from 2006 which is, sadly, probably the most prescient film of the 21st Century. Again, a classic to watch, about imagining in a world where we don't where you where you lose faith in the future, what happens, and a world that is not having children as a world that's losing faith in its own future. So that's always haunted me.   Trevor Freeman  52:12 It's funny both of those movies. So I've got kids as they get, you know, a little bit older, a little bit older, we start introducing more and more movies. And I've got this list of movies that are just, you know, impactful for my own adolescent years and growing up. And both matrix and Children of Men are on that list of really good movies that I just need my kids to get a little bit older, and then I'm excited to watch with them. If someone offered you a free round trip flight anywhere in the world, where would you go?   Greg Lindsay  52:40 I would go to Venice, Italy for the Architecture Biennale, which I will be on a plane in May, going to anyway. And the theme this year is intelligence, artificial, natural and collective. So it should be interesting to see the world's brightest architects. Let's see what we got. But yeah, Venice, every time, my favorite city in the world.   Trevor Freeman  52:58 Yeah, it's pretty wonderful. Who is someone that you admire?   Greg Lindsay  53:01 Great question.

Join Tom Britten of Travelers as he discusses the evolving risks, quality challenges, and technological advancements in battery energy storage systems on the Edge of Risk podcast. If you want even more education on energy risks, the 2025 IRMI Energy Risk & Insurance Conference is available on demand at IRMI.com.

Michael Barnard hosts Paul Martin and Emiel van Druten in an insightful podcast episode exploring the Netherlands' evolving energy transition scenarios, specifically focusing on strategic planning for 2030 and 2050. Emil van Druten, leading the scenario development at Tennet, collaborates closely with Dutch network operators, leveraging his engineering background to advance pragmatic electrification pathways.Central to the discussion is a recent workshop where Canadian experts provided critical economic validation of the proposed high-electrification strategies. This validation helps anchor ambitious scenarios in realistic economic contexts, highlighting where adjustments might enhance feasibility and efficacy. Complementing these strategic insights was a site visit to the Netherlands' largest operating land-based wind farm—200 MW of wind generation complemented by solar and upcoming battery storage. Detailed discussion covered turbine specifications, operational efficiencies, and the integration potential of such multi-technology sites.The historical context provided by Flevoland's infrastructure evolution underscores the Netherlands' capacity for resilience, particularly with regard to the Afsluitdijk closure dam and sophisticated pumping station operations. Strategically scheduling these pumping stations based on fluctuating energy prices has already achieved substantial operational cost savings, with significant further potential identified through increased automation.The conversation also highlighted acute challenges facing industrial sectors historically dependent on Groningen gas, as the scheduled closure of this major gas field threatens competitiveness. Transition urgency grows, prompting industrial sectors, including major refineries, to rethink energy sourcing strategies and economic positioning within European markets.Biomethane emerges as a notable strategic element, with significant domestic capacity aimed at enhancing industrial processes and providing backup power generation. The strategy prioritizes biomethane for industrial feedstock rather than residential use, capitalizing on its benefits for CO2 enrichment in greenhouse agriculture and nutrient cycling back to farmlands. Maintaining existing methane plants is crucial for ensuring generation reliability, particularly during renewable generation shortfalls anticipated in capacity planning for the early 2030s.Emil and Paul also explore the technological merits of aquifer thermal energy storage (ATES), particularly effective for seasonal heat storage and cooling applications in conjunction with greenhouse operations. Geological advantages and deep drilling expertise have made the Netherlands a leader in this technology, complementing the shift toward optimized heat pump solutions for residential heating. They advocate moving decisively toward all-electric heat pumps over hybrid systems, recommending regulatory adaptations to streamline adoption without imposing expensive building fabric upgrades.Finally, the episode outlines critical regulatory and operational actions needed: automating pumping stations for additional energy savings, revising regulations to facilitate practical heat pump adoption in residential sectors, and addressing persistent regulatory delays hindering district heating initiatives. The insights provided offer a comprehensive blueprint for navigating the complexities and opportunities of the Dutch energy transition.

Summer rewind: Scott Demark, President and CEO of Zibi Community Utility, joins thinkenergy to discuss how our relationship with energy is changing. With two decades of expertise in clean energy and sustainable development, Scott suggests reimagining traditional energy applications for heating and cooling. He shares how strategic energy distribution can transform urban environments, specifically how district energy systems optimize energy flow between buildings for a greener future. Listen in.   Related links   ●     Scott Demark on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/scott-demark-83640473/ ●     Zibi Community Utility: https://zibi.ca/ ●     Markham District Energy Inc: https://www.markhamdistrictenergy.com/ ●     One Planet Living: https://www.bioregional.com/one-planet-living ●     Trevor Freeman on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/trevor-freeman-p-eng-cem-leed-ap-8b612114/ ●     Hydro Ottawa: https://hydroottawa.com/en   To subscribe using Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/thinkenergy/id1465129405    To subscribe using Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/7wFz7rdR8Gq3f2WOafjxpl    To subscribe on Libsyn: http://thinkenergy.libsyn.com/  --- Subscribe so you don't miss a video: https://www.youtube.com/user/hydroottawalimited    Follow along on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/hydroottawa    Stay in the know on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/HydroOttawa Keep up with the posts on X: https://twitter.com/thinkenergypod  ---- Transcript: Trevor Freeman  00:00 Hi everyone. Well, summer is here, and the think energy team is stepping back a bit to recharge and plan out some content for the next season. We hope all of you get some much needed downtime as well, but we aren't planning on leaving you hanging over the next few months, we will be re releasing some of our favorite episodes from the past year that we think really highlight innovation, sustainability and community. These episodes highlight the changing nature of how we use and manage energy, and the investments needed to expand, modernize and strengthen our grid in response to that. All of this driven by people and our changing needs and relationship to energy as we move forward into a cleaner, more electrified future, the energy transition, as we talk about many times on this show. Thanks so much for listening, and we'll be back with all new content in September. Until then, happy listening.   Trevor Freeman  00:55 Welcome to think energy, a podcast that dives into the fast changing world of energy through conversations with industry leaders, innovators and people on the front lines of the energy transition. Join me, Trevor Freeman, as I explore the traditional, unconventional and up and coming facets of the energy industry. If you have any thoughts, feedback or ideas for topics we should cover, please reach out to us at think energy at hydro ottawa.com, Hi everyone. Welcome back one of the overarching aspects of the energy transition that we have talked about several times on this show is the need to change our relationship with energy, to rethink the standard way of doing things when it comes to heating and cooling and transportation, et cetera. This change is being driven by our need to decarbonize and by the ongoing evolution and improvement of technology, more things are becoming available to us as technology improves. On the decarbonization front, we know that electrification, which is switching from fossil fuel combustions to electricity for things like space and water heating, vehicles, et cetera, is one of the most effective strategies. But in order to switch out all the end uses to an electric option, so swapping out furnaces and boilers for heat pumps or electric boilers, switching all gas cars to EVs, et cetera, in order to do that in a way that is affordable and efficient and can be supported by our electricity grid. We need to think about multi strategy approaches, so we can't just continue to have this one way power grid where every home, every business, every warehouse or office tower satisfies all of its energy needs all the time directly from the grid with no adaptability. That isn't the best approach. It's not going to be affordable or efficient. We're not going to be able to do it fast enough. The multi strategy approach takes into account things like distributed energy resources, so solar and storage, et cetera, which we've talked about many times on this show, but it also includes approaches like district energy. So district energy is rethinking how energy flows between adjacent buildings, looking for opportunities to capture excess energy or heat from one source and use that to support another, and that is the focus of today's conversation to help us dive into this topic, I'm really happy to welcome Scott demark to the show. Scott has been a champion of sustainability, clean energy solutions and energy efficiency in the Ottawa real estate and development industry for over 20 years now, he has overseen many high performance development projects, and was one of the driving forces behind the Zibi development in downtown Ottawa, and most applicable for today's conversation the renewable district energy system that provides heating and cooling to the Zibi site. Scott is the president and CEO of the Zibi community utility, as well as a partner at Theia partners. Scott the Mark, welcome to the show. Thanks. Nice to see you. Trevor, so Scott, why don't we start with definitions are always a good place to start. So when we talk about a district energy system, give us a high level overview of what exactly that means.   Scott Demark  04:15 Sure a district energy system is, is simply the connection or interconnection of thermal energy sources, thermal energy sinks. And so really, in practical terms, it means, instead of buildings having their own furnace and cooling system, buildings connect to a hydronic loop. A hydronic loop is just pipes filled with water, and then the heat or the cooling is made somewhere else, and that heat or lack of heat cooling is in a pipe. They push the pipe to the building, and then the pipe extracts the heat, or rejects the heat to that loop. And so it's simply an interconnection of. Uh, as it forces in sinks for federal energy.   Trevor Freeman  05:03 And I guess one of the important concepts here is that buildings often create heat, not just through a furnace or not just through the things that are meant to create heat, but, you know, server racks, computer server racks, generate a lot of heat, and that heat has to go somewhere. So oftentimes we're cooling buildings to remove heat that's being created in those buildings, and then other buildings nearby need to be heated in order to make that space comfortable.   Scott Demark  05:31 Is that fair to say? Yeah, absolutely. Trevor, so, a an office building in the city of Ottawa, big old government office building, you'll see a pretty big plume on the roof in the wintertime. That's not just kind of the flue gas from a boiler, but rather it is actually chillers are running inside to make cooling, and they're just selling that heat to the atmosphere, even on the coldest day of the year. So it's people, you know, people are thermal load. Computers are thermal load, and so is solar gain. You know, January is pretty dark period for us, meaning low angle sun, but by this time in a year, you know, at the end of February, there's a lot of heat in that sun. So a glass building absorbs a lot of sun an office building will lead cooling on the sunny side of that building a lot of the time, even in the dead of   Trevor Freeman  06:18 winter, yeah. So a district system, then, is taking advantage of the fact that heat exists, and we don't necessarily need to either burn fossil fuels, or, even if it's a, you know, a clean system, we don't have to expend energy to create heat, or create as much heat if we could move that heat around from where it's kind of naturally occurring to where we need   Scott Demark  06:41 it. That's right at the very core of a district energy system. You're going to move heat from a place that it's not wanted to a place that it is wanted. And so in our example of the office building, you know, on the February day with the sun shining in and the computers all running, that building's getting rid of heat. But right next door, say, there's a 20 story condo. Well, that 20 story condo needs heating and it also needs domestic hot water. So year round, domestic hot water represents 30, 35% of the heating load of any residential building, so at all times. So a district energy system allows you to take that heat away from the office building and give it to the residential building, instead of making the heat and and dissipating that heat to the atmosphere in the office building. So, yeah, it's, it's really a way to move, you know, from sources to sinks. That's, that's what a district energy system does well.   Trevor Freeman  07:37 So we've kind of touched on this a little bit, but let's dive right into, you know, we talk a lot on the show about the energy transition this, this push to one, move away from fossil fuel combustion to meet our energy needs, and two, shifting from a kind of static, centralized energy system like we have right now, big generators, large transmission lines, et cetera, to more of a two way flow, distributed energy system. What is the role of district energy systems within that transition? How do they help us get closer to that sort of reality that we talk about?   Scott Demark  08:15 I think the biggest way that they help is economies of scale. Okay, so by that, I'll explain that. Imagine there's a lot of technology that's been around a long time that is very scalable to the building level, but most of them are fossil fire. Okay, so the the cheapest way to heat a building in Ottawa is to put a gas fired boiler in. That's the cheapest capital cost, first cost, and it's also the cheapest operating cost, is to put a gas boiler in that industry is well established. There's lots of trades who could do it. There's lots of producers who make the boilers. When you start to try and think about the energy transition and think about what you may do to be different, to be lower carbon, or to be zero carbon, those industries are, are just starting right? Those industries don't exist. They don't have the same depth, and so they don't have the same cost structure, and oftentimes they don't scale well down to the building. And therefore a district energy system aggregates a bunch of load, and so you can provide a thermal energy so at scale that becomes affordable. And that is, you know, a very good example of that would be where, you know, you might want to go and and recover heat from some process. And we'll talk about Zibi as the example. But if you want to go recover heat from some process and bring it in, it doesn't make sense to run a pipeline to a source to heat one building. You can't make financial sense of it, but if you're heating 20 buildings, that pipeline, all of a sudden makes sense to take waste heat from somewhere, to move it somewhere else. The other advantage is that truly, district energy systems are agnostic to their inputs and outputs for heat. So once you. Establish that hydronic loop, that interconnection of water pipes between buildings. What the source and what the source is doesn't matter. So you may have, at one point, built a district energy system, and Markham District Energy System is a great example of this. Markham district energy system was built on the concept of using a co generation facility. So they burned natural gas to make electricity. They sold electricity to the grid, and they captured all the waste heat from that generation, and they fed it into a district energy system. Well here we are, 20 plus years later, and they're going to replace that system, that fossil fired system Augment, not fully replaced, but mostly replace that system with a sewer coupled energy recovery and drive those heat recovery chillers to a sewer system. So they're putting a very green solution in place of a former fossil solution. They don't to rip up the pipes. They don't have to change anything in the buildings. They only have to change that central concept now, again, Markham could never do that at a one building scale. They're only that at the community scale.   Trevor Freeman  11:08 So you mentioned, I want to pick on something you said there. You talked about a sewer heat energy system. They're pulling heat from the sewer. Just help our listeners understand high level kind of, why is there heat there for us to pull like, what's the what's the source there?   Scott Demark  11:26 Yeah, so when we shower, when we flush toilets, all, all of that is introducing heat into a sewer system. So we're collecting heat from everybody's house into the sewer system. The sewer system also sits below the frost line. So call it Earth coupled. You know, it's the earth in Ottawa below the frost line sits around eight, eight and a half c and so at that temperature and the temperature of flushing toilets we we essentially get a sewer temperature in the on the coldest day of the year, but it's around 1010, and a half degrees Celsius. And obviously, for lots of the year, it's much warmer than that. And so I think, you know, a lot of people are kind of familiar with the concept of geo exchange energy, or that. Lot of people call it geothermal. But geo exchange where you might drill down into the earth, and you're taking advantage of that 888, and a half degrees Celsius. So you're exchanging heat. You can reject heat to the earth, or you can absorb heat from the earth. Well, this is the same idea, but you accept or reject from this sewer. But because the sewer is relatively shallow, it is cheaper to access that energy, and because it's warm, and on the coldest day, a couple of degrees make a big difference. Trevor and most of the years so much warmer, you're really in a very good position to extract that heat, and that's all it is. You. You are just accepting or rejecting heat. You don't use the sewage itself. It doesn't come into your building. You have a heat exchanger in between. But that's what you do.   Trevor Freeman  12:58 I agree. And we've talked before on the show about the idea that you know, for an air source, heat pump, for example, you don't need a lot of heat energy to extract energy from the air. It can be cold outside, and there is still heat energy in the air that you can pull and use that to heat a building, heat water, whatever. So same concept, except you've got a much warmer source of energy, I guess. Yeah, exactly. And you know, Trevor, when you look at the efficiency curves of those air source heat pumps, you know, they kind of drop off a cliff at minus 20. Minus 22 In fact, you know, five or six years ago, they that that was dropping off at minus 10. So we've come a long way in air source heat pumps. But imagine on that coldest, coldest day of the year, you're still your source is well above zero, and therefore your efficiency. So the amount of electricity you need to put into the heat pump to get out the heat that you need is much lower, so it's a way more efficient heat exchange. Great. Thanks for that, Scott. I know that's a bit of a tangent here, but always cool to talk about different ways that we're coming up with to heat our buildings. So back to district energy, we've talked through some of the benefits of the system. If I'm a building owner and I'm have the decision to connect to a system that's there, or have my own standalone, you know, traditional boiler, whatever the case may be, or even in a clean energy want to heat pump, whatever. What are the benefits of being on a district system versus having my own standalone system for just my building?   Scott Demark  14:30 Yeah, so when you're wearing the developers hat, you know they're really looking at it financially, if they have other goals around sustainability. Great that will factor into it, but most of them are making decisions around this financially. So it needs to compete with that. That first cost that we talked about the easiest ways, is boilers, gas fired boilers is the cheapest way. And so they're going to look to see it at how. Does this compare to that? And so I think that's the best way to frame it for you. And so the difference here is that you need to install in your building a cooling system and a heating system. In Ottawa, that cooling system is only used for a few months a year, and it's very expensive. It takes up space, whether you're using a chiller and a cooling tower on the roof, or using a dry cooler, it takes up roof space, and it also takes up interior space. If you do have a cooling tower, you have a lot of maintenance for that. You need to turn it on and turn it off in the spring, on and fall, etc, just to make sure all that happens. And you need to carry the life cycle of that boiler plant you need to bring gas infrastructure into your building. You generally need to put that gas boiler plant high in your building, so, so up near the top, and that's for purposes of venting that properly. Now, that's taking real estate, right? And it's taking real estate on the area that's kind of most advantageous, worth the most money. So you might lose a penthouse to have a boiler and chiller room up there. And you also, of course, lose roof space. And today, we really do try to take advantage of those rooftop patios and things. Amenities are pretty important in buildings. And so when I compare that to district energy at the p1 level p2 level in your building, you're going to have a small room, and I really do mean small where the energy transfer takes place, you'll have some heat exchangers. And small you might have a space, you know, 10 or 12 feet by 15 to 18 feet would be big enough for a 30 story tower. So a small room where you do the heat exchange and then Trevor, you don't have anything in your building for plant that you would normally look after. So when you look at the pro forma for owning your building over the lifetime of it, you don't have to maintain boilers. You don't have to have boiler insurance. You don't have to maintain your chillers. You don't have to have lifecycle replacement on any of these products. You don't need anybody operating, those checking in on the pressure vessels. None of that has to happen. All of that happens on the district energy system. So you're really taking something you own and operate and replacing that with a service. So district energy is a service, and what, what we promised to deliver is the heating you need and the cooling you need. 24/7 you second thing you get is more resilience. And I'll explain that a little bit. Is that in a in a normal building, if you if the engineers looked at it and said you need two boilers to keep your building warm, then you're probably going to install three. And that is kind of this n plus one sort of idea, so that if one boilers goes down, you have a spare and you need to maintain those. You need to pay for that. You need to maintain those, etc. But in district energy system, all that redundancy is done in the background. It's done by us, and we have significantly more redundancy than just n plus one in this example. But overall, you know, if you have 10 buildings on your district energy system, each of those would have had n plus one. We don't have n plus 10 in the plant. And so overall, the cost is lower, I would say, if you look at it globally, except the advantages you do have better than N plus one in the plan, so we have higher resiliency at a lower cost.   Trevor Freeman  18:26 So we know there's no such thing as a miracle solution that works in all cases. What are the the best use cases for district energy system? Where does it make a lot of sense.   Scott Demark  18:37 Yeah, in terms some, in some ways the easiest thing, spray work doesn't make sense. So, so it doesn't make sense in sprawling low rise development. So the cost of that hydronic loop, those water pipes, is high. They have to fit in the roadway. It's civil work, etc. And so you do need density. That doesn't mean it has to be high rise density. You know, if you look at Paris, France, six stories, district energy, no problem. There's there's lots and lots of customers for that scale of building. It doesn't have to be all high rise, but it does. District energy does not lend itself well to our sprawling style of development. It's much more suited to a downtown setting. It also kind of thrives where there's mixed use, you know, I think the first example we're talking about is office building shedding heat, residential building needing heat, you know, couple that with an industrial building shedding heat. You know, the these various uses, a variety of uses on a district energy system is the best because its biggest advantage is sharing energy, not making energy. And so a disparity of uses is the best place to use that, I think the other, the other thing to think about, and this is harder in Canada than the rest of the world. Is that, you know, it's harder on a retrofit basis, from a cost perspective, than it is in a in a new community where you can put this in as infrastructure, day one, you're going to make a big difference. And I'll, you know, give a shout out to British Columbia and the Greater Vancouver area. So the district, you know, down in the Lower Mainland, they, they kind of made this observation and understood that if they were going to electrify then District Energy gave economies of scale to electrify that load. And they do a variety of things, but one of the things they do is, is kind of district geo exchange systems, so, so big heat pumps coupled to big fields, and then bring heat a bunch of buildings. But these are Greenfield developments Trevor. So as they expand their suburbs, they do need to build the six stories. They very much have kind of density around parks concepts. So now Park becomes a geo field, density around the geo field, but this infrastructure is going in the same time as the water pipes. It's going in at the same time as the roads, the sidewalks, etc, you can dramatically reduce your cost, your first cost related to that hydro loop, if you're putting it in the same time you're doing the rest of the services.   Trevor Freeman  21:15 So we're not likely to see, you know, residential neighborhoods with single family homes or multi unit homes, whatever, take advantage of this. But that sort of low rise, mid rise, that's going to be more of a good pick for this. And like you said, kind of development is the time to do this. You mentioned other parts of the world. So district energy systems aren't exactly widespread. In Canada, we're starting to see more of them pop up. What about the rest of the world? Are there places in the world where we see a lot more of this, and they've been doing this for a long time?   Scott Demark  21:47 Yeah. So I'd almost say every everywhere in the northern hemisphere, except North America, has done much more of this. And you know, we really look to kind of Scandinavia as the gold standard of this. You look to Sweden, you look to Denmark, you look to Germany. Even there's, there's a lot of great examples of this, and they are typically government owned. So they are often public private partnerships, but they would be various levels of government. So you know, if you, if you went to Copenhagen, you'd see that the municipality is an owner. But then their equivalent of a province or territory is, is actually a big part of it, too. And when they built their infrastructure ages ago, they did not have an easy source of fossil fuels, right? And so they need to think about, how can we do this? How can we share heat? How can we centralize the recovery of heat? How can we make sure we don't waste any and this has just been ingrained in them. So there's massive, massive District Energy loops, interconnecting loops, some owned by municipalities, some of them probably, if you build a factory, part of the concept of your factory, part of the pro forma of your factory is, how much can I sell my waste heat for? And so a factory district might have a sear of industrial partners who own a district energy loop and interfaces with the municipal loop, all sort of sharing energy and dumping it in. And so that's, you know, that's what you would study. That's, that's where we would want to be. And the heart of it is just that, as I said, we've really had, you know, cheap or, you know, really cheap fossil fuels. We've had no price on pollution. And therefore what really hasn't needed to happen here, and we're starting to see the need for that to happen here.   Trevor Freeman  23:46 It's an interesting concept to think of, you know, bringing that factory example in, instead of waste heat or heat as a byproduct of your process being a problem that you need to deal with, something, you have to figure out a way to get rid of it becomes almost an asset. It's a it's a, you know, convenient commodity that's being produced regardless, that you can now look to sell and monetize.   Scott Demark  24:10 Yeha, you go back to the idea of, like, what are the big benefits of district energy? Is that, like, if that loop exists and somebody knows that one of the things the factory produces is heat, well, that's a commodity I produce, and I can, I can sell it if I have a way to sell it right here, you know, we're going to dissipate it to a river. We may dissipate it to the atmosphere. We're going to get rid of it. Like you said, it's, it's, it's waste in their minds, and in Europe, that is absolutely not waste.   Trevor Freeman  24:36 And it coming back to that, you know, question of, where does this make sense? You talked about mixed use, and it's also like the, you know, the temporal mixed use of someone that is producing a lot of heat during the day, when the next door residential building is empty, then when they switch, when the factory closes and the shift is over and everybody comes home from work. So that's when that building needs heat, that's when they want to be then taking that heat two buildings next to each other that both need heat at the same time is not as good a use cases when it's offset like that.   Scott Demark  25:10 Yeah, that's true. And lots of District Energy Systems consider kind of surges and storage. I know our system at CB has, has kind of a small storage system related to the domestic hot water peak load. However, you can also think of the kilometers and kilometers and kilometers of pipes full of water as a thermal battery, right? So, so you actually are able to even out those surges you you let the temperature the district energy system rise when that factory is giving all out all kinds of heat, it's rising even above the temperature you have to deliver it at. And then when that heat comes, you can draw down that temperature and let the whole district energy system normalize to its temperature again. So you do have an innate battery in the in the water volume that sits in the district energy system, very cool.   Trevor Freeman  26:04 So you've mentioned Zibi a couple of times, and I do want to get into that as much as we're talking about other parts of the world. You know having longer term district energy systems. Zibi, community utility is a great example, right here in Ottawa, where you and I are both based of a district energy system. Before we get into that, can you, just for our listeners that are not familiar with Zibi, give us a high level overview of of what that community is, its location, you know, the goals of the community, and then we'll talk about the energy side of things.   Scott Demark  26:34 Sure. So Zibi was formerly Domtar paper mills. It's 34 acres, and it is in downtown Ottawa and downtown Gatineau. About a third of the land masses is islands on the Ontario side, and two thirds of the land mass is on the shore, the north shore of the Ottawa River in Gatineau, both downtown, literally in the shadows of Parliament. It is right downtown. It was industrial for almost 200 years. Those paper mills shut down in the 90s and the early 2000s and my partners and I pursued that to turn it from kind of this industrial wasteland, walled off, fenced off, area that no one could go into. What we're hoping will be kind of the world's most sustainable urban community, and so at build out, it will house, you know, about six, 7000 people. It will be four and a half million square feet, 4.24 point 4, million square feet of development. It is master planned and approved and has built about, I think we're, at 1.1 million square feet. So we're about quarter built out now. 10 buildings are done and connected to the district energy system there. And really, it's, it's an attempt to sort of recover land that was really quite destroyed. You can imagine it was a pretty polluted site. So the giant remediation plan, big infrastructure plan, we modeled this, this overall sustainability concept, over a program called one planet living which has 10 principles of sustainability. So you know, you and I are talking a lot about carbon today, but there's also very important aspects about affordability and social sustainability and lifestyle, and all of those are incorporated into the one planet program, and encourage people to look up one planet living and understand what it is, and look at the commitments that we've made at CV to create a sustainable place. We issue a report every year, kind of our own report card that's reviewed by a third party, that explains where we are on our on our mission to achieve our goal of the world's most sustainable   Trevor Freeman  28:57 community. Yeah. And so I do encourage people to look at one planet living. Also have a look at, you know, the Zibi website, and it's got the Master Plan and the vision of what that community will be. And I've been down there, it's already kind of coming along. It's amazing to see the progress compared to who I think you described it well, like a bit of an industrial wasteland at the heart of one of the most beautiful spots in the city. It was really a shame what it used to be. And it's great to see kind of the vision of what it can become. So that's awesome.   Scott Demark  29:26 Yeah, and Trevor, especially now that the parks are coming along. You know, we worked really closely with the NCC to integrate the shoreline of ZV to the existing, you know, bike path networks and everything. And, you know, two of the three shoreline parks are now completed and open to the public and and they're stunning. And, you know, so many Ottawa people have not been down there because it's not a place you think about, but it's one of the few places in Ottawa and Gatineau where you can touch the water, you know, like it's, it's, it's stunning. Yeah, very, very cool.   Trevor Freeman  29:57 Okay, so the. The the next part of that, of course, is energy. And so there is a district energy system, one of the first kind of, or the most recent big energy. District Energy Systems in Ottawa. Tell us a little bit about how you are moving energy and heating the Zibi site.   Scott Demark  30:17 Yeah. So, first I'll say, you know, we, we, we studied different ways to get to net zero. You know, we had, we had a goal of being a zero carbon community. There are low carbon examples, but a zero carbon community is quite a stretch. And even when you look at the Scandinavian examples, the best examples, they're missing their they're missing their energy goals, largely because some of the inputs that are District Energy System remain fossil, but also because they have trouble getting the performance out of the buildings. And so we looked at this. We also know from our experience that getting to zero carbon at the building scale in Ottawa is very, very difficult. Our climate's tough, super humid, super hot summer, very cold, very dry, winter, long winter. So it's difficult at the building scale. It's funny Trevor, because you'd actually have an easier time getting to zero carbon or a passive house standard in affordable housing than you do at market housing, and that's because affordable housing has a long list of people who want to move in and pay rents. You can get some subsidies for capital, and the people who are willing to pay rent are good with smaller windows, thicker walls, smaller units, and pass trust needs, all those kinds of things. So when down at Zibi, you're really selling views. You're competing with people on the outside of Zibi, you're building almost all glass buildings. And so it's really difficult to find a way to get to zero carbon on the building scale. So that moved us to district energy for all the reasons we've talked about today already. And so when we looked at it for Zibi, you really look at the ingredients you have. One of the great things we have is we're split over the border. It's also a curse. But split over the border is really interesting, because you cannot move electricity over that border, but you can move thermal energy over that border. And so for us, in thinking about electrifying thermal energy, we realized that if we did the work in Quebec, where there is clean and affordable electricity, we could we could turn that into heat, and then we could move heat to Ontario. We could move chilled water to Ontario. So that's kind of ingredient, one that we had going for us there. The second is that there used to be three mills. So originally, don't target three mills. They sold one mill. It changed hands a few times, but It now belongs to Kruger. They make tissue there so absorbent things, Kleenexes and toilet paper, absorbent, anything in that tissue process. That's a going concern. So you can see that on our skyline. You can see, on cold days, big plumes of waste heat coming out of it. And so we really saw that as our source, really identified that as our source. And how could we do that? So going back to the economies of scale, is could we send a pipeline from Kruger, about a kilometer away, to Zibi? And so when we were purchasing the land, we were looking at all the interconnections of how the plants used to be realized. There's some old pipelines, some old easements, servitudes, etc. And so when we bought the land, we actually bought all of those servitudes too, including a pipeline across the bridge. Canadian energy regulator licensed across the bridge into Ontario. And so we mixed all these ingredients up, you know, in a pot and came up with our overall scheme. And so that overall scheme is is relatively simple. We built an energy recovery station at Kruger where, just before their effluent water, like when they're finished in their process, goes back to the river. We have a heat exchanger there. We extract heat. We push that heat in a pipe network over to Zibi. At Zibi, we can upgrade that heat using heat recovery chillers to a useful temperature for us, that's about 40 degrees Celsius, and we push that across the bridge to Ontario, all of our buildings in Ontario then have fan coil units. They use that 40 degree heat to heat buildings. The return side of that comes back to Quebec. And then on the Quebec side, we have a loop. And all of our buildings in the Quebec side then use heat pumps so we extract the last bit of heat. So imagine you you've returned from a fan coil, but you're still slightly warm. That slightly warm water is enough to drive a heat pump inside the buildings. And then finally, that goes back to Kruger again, and Kruger heats it back up with their waste heat and comes back. So that's our that's our heating loop. The cooling side is coupled to the Ottawa River. And so instead of us, we. Rejecting heat to the atmosphere through cooling towers. Our coolers are actually coupled to the river. That's a very tight environmental window that you can operate in. So we worked with the Ministry of the Environment climate change in Quebec to get our permit to do it. We can only be six degrees difference to the river, but our efficiency is on average, like on an annual basis, more than double what it would be to a cooling tower for the same load. So we're river coupled, with respect to cooling for the whole development, and we're coupled to Kruger for heating for the whole development. And what that allows us to do is eliminate fossil fuels. Our input is clean Quebec electricity, and our output is heating and cooling.   Trevor Freeman  35:44 So none of the buildings, you know, just for our listeners, none of the buildings have any sort of fossil fuel combustion heating equipment. You don't have boilers or anything like that. Furnaces in these in these buildings?   Scott Demark  35:54 No boilers, no chillers, no. that's awesome. And   Trevor Freeman  35:58 That's awesome. And just for full transparency, I should have mentioned this up front. So the Zibi community utility is a partnership between Zibi and Hydro Ottawa, who our listeners will know that I work for, and this was really kind of a joint venture to figure out a different approach to energy at the Zibi site.   Scott Demark  36:16 Yeah, that's right. Trevor, I mean the concept, the concept was born a long time ago now, but the concept was born by talking to hydro Ottawa about how we might approach this whole campus differently. You know, one of hydro Ottawa companies makes electricity, of course, Chaudière Falls, and so that was part of the thinking we thought of, you know, micro grids and islanding this and doing a lot of different things. When Ford came in, and we were not all the way there yet, and made changes to Green Energy Act, it made it challenging for us to do the electricity side, but we had already well advanced the thermal side, and hydro, you know, hydro makes a good partner in this sort of thing, when a when a developer tells someone, I'd like you to buy a condo, and by the way, I'm also the district energy provider that might put some alarm bells up, but you put a partnership in there with a trusted, long term utility partner and explain that, you know, it is in the in the public interest. They're not going to jack rates or mess with things, and then obviously just hydro has had such a long operating record operating experience that they really brought sort of an operations and long term utility mindset to our district energy system.   Trevor Freeman  37:35 So looking at a system like the Zippy community utility or other district energy systems. Is this the kind of thing that can scale up over time? And, you know, I bring this up because you hear people talk about, you know, a network of district energy systems across a city or across a big geographic area. Are these things that can be interconnected and linked, or does it make more sense as standalone district energy systems in those conditions that you talked about earlier.   Scott Demark  38:06 Very much the former Trevor like and that's, you know, that's where, you know, places like Copenhagen are today. It's that, you know, there was, there was one district energy system, then there was another, then they got interconnected, then the third got added. And then they use a lot of incineration there in that, in that part of the world, clean incineration for garbage. And so then an incinerator is coming online. And so that incinerators waste heat is going to be fed with a new district energy loop, and some other factory is going to use the primary heat from that, and then the secondary heat is going to come into the dictionary system. Disciplinary system. So these things are absolutely expandable. They're absolutely interconnectable. There are temperature profiles. There's modern, modern thoughts on temperature profiles compared to older systems. Most of the old, old systems were steam, actually, which is not the most efficient thing the world. But that's where they started and so now you can certainly interconnect them. And I think that the example at Zibi is a decent one, because we do have two kinds of systems there. You know, I said we have fan coil units in in the Ontario side, but we have heat pumps on the other side. Well, those two things, they can coexist, right? That's there. Those two systems are operating together. Because the difference, you know, the difference from the customer's perspective in those two markets are different, and the same can be true in different parts of the city or when different sources and sinks are available. So it is not one method of doing district energy systems. What you do is you examine the ingredients you have. I keep saying it, but sources and sinks? How can I look at these sources and sinks in a way that I can interconnect them and make sense? And sometimes that means that a source or a sink might be another district energy system.   Trevor Freeman  39:59 Yeah. Yeah, yeah, systems that maybe work in parallel to each other, in cooperation with each other. Again, it's almost that temporal need where there's load high on at one point in time and low on the other point in time. Sharing is a great opportunity.   Scott Demark  40:14 Yeah, absolutely great.   Trevor Freeman  40:17 Okay, last question for you here, Scott, what is needed, maybe from a regulatory or a policy lens to encourage more implementation of district energy systems. How do we see more of these things happen here in Canada or in   Scott Demark  40:32 North America? The best way to put this, the bureaucracy has been slow to move, is, is what I'll say, and I'll use Zibi as that example. When we, when we pitched the district energy system at Zibi, we had to approach the City of Ottawa, and we had to approach the city of Gatineau, the City of Ottawa basically said to us, No, you can't put those in our streets. Engineering just said, no, no, no, no. And so what we did at Zibi is we actually privatized our streets in order to see our vision through, because, because Ottawa wasn't on board, the city of Gatineau said, Hmm, I'm a little worried. I want you to write protocols of how you will access your pipes, not our pipes. I want to understand where liability ends and starts and all of this kind of stuff. And we worked through that detail slowly, methodically, with the city of Gatineau, and we came to a new policy on how district energy could be in a public street and Zibi streets are public on the Gatineau side today. You know, come forward 10 years here, and the City of Ottawa has a working group on how to incorporate District Energy pipes into streets. We've been able to get the City of Ottawa to come around to the idea that we will reject and accept heat from their sewer. You know, hydro Ottawa, wholly owned company of the City of Ottawa, has an active business in district energy. So Trevor, we've come really far, but it's taken a long time. And so if you ask me, How can we, how can accelerate district energy, I think a lot of it has to do with the bureaucracy at municipalities. And you know, we're we see so much interest from the Federation of Canadian municipalities, who was the debt funder for ZCU. We have multiple visits from people all over Canada, coming to study and look at this as an example. And I'm encouraged by that. But it's also, it's also not rocket science. We need to understand that putting a pipe in a street is kind of a just, just a little engineering problem to solve, whereas putting, you know, burning fossil fuels for these new communities and putting in the atmosphere like the genies out of the bottle, right? Like and unfortunately, I think for a lot of bureaucrats, the challenge at the engineering level is that that pipe in the street is of immediate, complex danger to solving that problem, whereas it's everybody's problem that the carbons in the atmosphere. So if we could accelerate that, if we could focus on the acceleration of standards around District Energy pipes and streets, the rights of a district energy company to exist, and not to rant too much, but give you an example, is that a developer is required to put gas infrastructure into a new community, required, and yet you have to fight to get a district energy pipe in the street. So there needs to be a change of mindset there, and, and we're not there yet, but that's where we need to go.   Trevor Freeman  43:54 Yeah. Well, the interesting, you know, in 10 years, let's talk again and see how far we come. Hopefully not 10 years. Hopefully it's more like five, to see the kind of change that you've seen in the last decade. But I think that the direction is encouraging. The speed needs a little bit of work. But I'm always encouraged to see, yeah, things are changing or going in the right direction, just slowly. Well, Scott, we always end our interviews with a series of questions to our guests, so as long as you're okay with it, I'll jump right into those. So the first question is, what is a book you've read that you think everybody should read?   Scott Demark  44:29 Nexus, which is by Harari. He's the same author that wrote sapiens. Lots of people be familiar with sapiens. And so Nexus is, is really kind of the history of information networks, like, how do we, how do we share and pass information? And kind of a central thesis is that, you know, information is, is neither knowledge nor truth. It is information, and it's talking a lot about in the age of AI. Uh, how are we going to manage to move information into truth or knowledge? And I think it, you know, to be honest, it kind of scared the shit out of me reading it kind of how, how AI is impacting our world and going to impact our world. And what I thought was kind of amazing about it was that he, he really has a pretty strong thesis around the erosion of democracy in this time. And it's, it was, it was really kind of scary because it was published before the 2024 election. And so it's, it's really kind of a, both a fascinating and scary read, and I think really something that everybody should get their head around.   Trevor Freeman  45:47 It's, yeah, there's a few of those books recently that I would clear or classify them as kind of dark and scary, but really important or really enlightening in some way. And it kind of helps you, you know, formalize a thought or a concept in your head and realize, hey, here's what's happening, or gives you that kind of the words to speak about it in this kind of fraught time we're in. So same question, but for a movie or a show, is there anything that you think everybody should watch.   Scott Demark  46:16 That's harder, I think, generally from watching something, it's for my downtime or own entertainment, and pushing my tastes on the rest of the world, maybe not a great idea. I if I, if I'm, if I'm kind of doing that, I tend to watch cooking shows, actually, Trevor so like, that's awesome. I like ugly, delicious. I love Dave Chang. I like, I like mind of a chef creativity partnership. So those kind of things I'd say more so if there was something to like that, I think somebody else should, should watch or listen to, I have, I have a real love for Malcolm Gladwell podcast, revisionist history. And so if I thought, you know, my watching habits are not going to going to expand anybody's brain, but I do think that Malcolm's perspective on life is really a healthy it's really healthy to step sideways and look at things differently. And I would suggest, if you have never listened to that podcast. Go to Episode One, season one, and start there. It's, it's, it's fantastic.   Trevor Freeman  47:26 Yeah, I agree. I'll echo that one. That's one of my favorites. If we were to offer you or not, but if we were to offer you a free round trip flight, anywhere in the world, where would you go?   Scott Demark  47:38 That's hard, so much flight guilt. You know.   Trevor Freeman  47:42 I know it's a hard assume that there's carbon offset to it.   Scott Demark  47:47 It's an electric plane.   Trevor Freeman  47:48 That's right, yeah.s   Scott Demark  47:49 My family, had a trip planned in 2020 to go to France and Italy. My two boys were kind of at the perfect age to do that. It would have been a really ideal trip. And so I've still never been to either those places. And if I had to pick one, probably Italy, I would really like to see Italy. I think it would be a fantastic place to go. So probably, probably Italy.   Trevor Freeman  48:12 My favorite trip that I've ever done with my wife and our six month old at the time was Italy. It was just phenomenal. It was a fantastic trip. Who's someone that you admire?   Scott Demark  48:25 I have a lot of people. Actually have a lot of people in this in this particular space, like, what would I work in that have brought me here to pick to pick one, though I'd probably say Peter Busby. So. Peter Busby is a mentor, a friend, now a business partner, but, but not earlier in my career. Peter Busby is a kind of a one of the four fathers, you know, if you will, of green design in Canada. He's an architect, Governor General's Award winning architect, actually. But I think what I what I really, really appreciate about Peter, and always will, is that he was willing to stand up in his peer group and say, Hey, we're not doing this right. And, you know, he did that. He did that in the early 80s, right? Like we're not talking he did it when it cost his business some clients. He did it when professors would speak out against him, and certainly the Canadian Association of architecture was not going to take any blame for the shitty buildings that have been built, right? And he did it, and I remember being at a conference where Peter was getting a Lifetime Achievement Award from the Canadian architects Association. And so he's standing up, and people are all super proud of him. They're talking about his big life. And he. He, he, he kind of belittled them all and said, You're not doing enough. We're not doing enough like he's still he's still there. He's still taking the blame for where things are, and that things haven't moved fast enough, and that buildings are a massive part of our carbon problem, and probably one of the easier areas to fix. You know, we're talking about electric planes. Well, that's a that's a lot more difficult than it is to recover energy from a factory to heat a community, right? I admire him. I learned things from him all the time. He's got a great book out at the moment, actually, and, yeah, he'd be right up there on my in my top list, awesome.   Trevor Freeman  50:44 What is something about the energy sector or its future that you're particularly excited about?   Scott Demark  50:48 You wished you asked me this before the election. I'm feeling a little dark. Trevor, I think there needs to be a price on pollution in the world needs to be a price on pollution in America, in Canada, and I'm worried about that going away. In light of that, I'm not I'm not super excited about different technologies at the moment. I think there are technologies that are helping us, there are technologies that are pushing us forward, but there's no like silver bullet. So, you know, a really interesting thing that's coming is kind of this idea that a small nuclear reactor, okay, very interesting idea. You could see its context in both localized electricity production, but all the heat also really good for district entry, okay, so that's an interesting tech. It obviously comes with complications around security and disposal, if you like, there's our nuclear industry has been allowed to drink like, it's all complicated. So I don't see one silver bullet in technology that I'm like, That's the answer. But what I do see, I'll go back to what we were talking about before is, you know, we had to turn this giant ship of bureaucracy towards new solutions. Okay, that's, that's what we had to do. And now that it's turned and we've got it towards the right course, I'm encouraged by that. I really am. You know, there are champions. And I'll, I'll talk about our city. You know, there's champions in the City of Ottawa who want to see this happen as younger people have graduated into roles and planning and other engineering roles there. They've grown up and gone to school in an age where they understand how critical this climate crisis is, and they're starting to be in positions of power and being in decision making. You know, a lot of my career, we're trying to educate people that there was a problem. Now, the people sitting in those chairs, it, they understand there's a problem, and what can they do about it? And so I am, I am excited that that the there is a next generation sitting in these seats, making decisions, the bureaucracy, the ship is, is almost on course to making this difference. So, so I do think that's encouraging. We have the technology. We really do. It's not rocket science. We just need to get through, you know, the bureaucracy barriers, and we need to find ways to properly finance it.   Trevor Freeman  53:22 Great. I think that's a good place to wrap it up. Scott, thanks so much for your time. I really appreciate this conversation and shedding a little bit of light, not just on the technical side of district energy systems, but on the broader context, and as you say, the bureaucracy, the what is needed to make these things happen and to keep going in that right direction. So thanks a lot for your time. I really appreciate it.   Scott Demark  53:43 Thank you, Trevor, good to see you.   Trevor Freeman  53:45 All right. Take care.   Trevor Freeman  53:47 Thanks for tuning in to another episode of the think energy podcast. Don't forget to subscribe. Wherever you listen to podcasts, and it would be great if you could leave us a review. It really helps to spread the word. As always, we would love to hear from you, whether it's feedback, comments or an idea for a show or a guest, you can always reach us at thinkenergy@hydroottawa.com.

In this episode Rose Chard joins us to describes her multilayered and multi textured approach to innovation and research. It's a conversation about Energy Systems Captapult's experiment in prescribing heating to keep people warm—that's pretty much it, but there was a lot to talk about.Notes from the showRose Chard on LinkedInThe Inclusive Smart Solutions project that Rose mentionsWarm Home Prescription® Insights and Impact Report (July 2024) by Energy Systems CatapultWarm Home Prescription recommended by 93% of health professionals in latest trial (September 2023) by Energy Systems CatapultOne of the papers Jeff mentioned: Occupant Interactions and Effectiveness of Natural Ventilation Strategies in Contemporary New Housing in Scotland, UKThe other one: Ventilation and Indoor Air Quality in Part F 2006 Homes (BD 2702) from 2010**SOME SELF-PROMOTING CALLS TO ACTION**We don't actually earn anything from this podcast, and it's quite a lot of work, so we have to promote the day jobs.Follow us on the Zero Ambitions LinkedIn page (we still don't have a proper website)Jeff and Dan about Zero Ambitions Partners (the consultancy) for help with positioning and communications strategy, customer/user research and engagement strategy, carbon calculations and EPDs – we're up to all sortsSubscribe and advertise with Passive House Plus (UK edition here too)Check Lloyd Alter's Substack: Carbon UpfrontJoin ACANJoin the AECB Join the IGBCCheck out Her Retrofit Space, the renovation and retrofit platform for women**END OF SELF-PROMOTING CALLS TO ACTION**

Send us a textHave you ever noticed how much we depend on having access to safe, affordable energy systems?  In the last 100 years, society has become dependent on energy for transportation, heating and cooling our homes, powering our appliances, and much more.In this episode sit down with Sam Hong to learn about the new Energy Systems Engineering program at the University of Regina.  This program transitioned from an existing petroleum engineering program, and now includes options in sustainable energy, and energy transportation and storage.  Sam is a petroleum engineer and has been teaching petroleum and energy systems laboratories for the past eight years.  In our conversation he discusses his background and the work that has been done to create the new Energy Systems program.  With new laboratories in wind, solar, geothermal, fuel cells, and more, there is a lot of excitement about the future of the Energy Systems program among students, instructors, and industry!

In this conversation, Jared Vagy and Steve Smith go over the complexities of energy system training for climbers, particularly focusing on how to effectively train with limited resources. They discuss the importance of understanding muscle contractions, the various energy systems involved in climbing, and practical training protocols that can be implemented off the wall. The conversation emphasizes the need for a personalized approach to training, including a needs analysis to determine the most effective training components for individual climbers. The episode concludes with key takeaways on how to optimize climbing fitness while minimizing the risk of injury. Steve Smith's Bio Steve Smith is a Doctor of Physical Therapy, who is a board certified specialist in Orthopaedic Physical Therapy, and Strength & Conditioning. He has been climbing since 2006, and has a particular interest in specialized sport training and rehabilitation, using science and evidence-based practice to improve performance and return patients to their highest level of athletic abilities. Steve works in an academic Orthopedic and Sports Medicine setting and, in his free time, acts as a training and injury risk reduction consultant to local competitive and recreational climbers. He currently lives in Huntington, WV with his wife, son and daughter. Chapters 00:00 Introduction to Energy System Training 04:30 Understanding Limited Resources in Training 10:17 Muscle Contractions and Their Importance 17:03 Energy Systems Overview 24:33 Components of Energy System Training 29:56 Practical Applications of Training 33:54 Understanding Climbing Intensity and Training 39:36 Exploring Strength Endurance and Pump Training 47:29 Assessing and Programming for Climbing Training 50:48 Needs Analysis in Climbing Training 01:03:34 Key Takeaways for Effective Climbing Training Links and Resources for This Episode:

Discover how an Edison-inspired energy system is helping 88,000+ Americans slash utility bills without solar panels or generators. This innovative technology fixes power distribution inefficiencies while keeping homes powered during outages, despite utility companies' alleged opposition. Preparation Central City: Austin Address: 11320 North FM 620 Website: https://preparationcentral.com

The AI EFFECT project aims to establish a European Testing and Experimentation Facility (TEF) for the energy sector to develop, test, and validate AI applications. Funded by  Horizon Europe, the project addresses the integration of AI into critical energy infrastructures to optimize operations, reduce costs, enhance resilience, and support decarbonization efforts.   This episode of the EPRI Current examines AI's role in improving efficiency, smart grids, generation, distribution, and customer tools as well as some challenges emerging from use cases such as the need for mathematical guarantees to trust AI.   For more information about AI EFFECT and AI in the power industry: AI EFFECT: AI-EFFECT | acquiacmsminimaltemplate OPEN POWER AI: Open Power AI Consortium | EPRI Micro Sites   Host:  Samantha Gilman   Guests:              Gianluca Lipari, Technical Leader - European Projects Coordinator, EPRI Massimo Bolognessi, Senior Electrical Design Engineer, ENEL Grids Johanna Vorwerk,  Assistant Professor, Wind and Energy Systems, Technical University of Denmark   If you enjoy this podcast, please subscribe and share! And please consider leaving a review and rating on Apple Podcasts/iTunes.    Follow EPRI: LinkedIn https://www.linkedin.com/company/epri/  Twitter https://twitter.com/EPRINews    EPRI Current examines key issues and new R&D impacting the energy transition. Each episode features insights from EPRI, the world's preeminent independent, non-profit energy research and development organization, and from other energy industry leaders. We also discuss how innovative technologies are shaping the global energy future. Learn more at www.epri.com       

Today we had a fantastic conversation with Daan Struyven, Co-Head of Global Commodities Research and Managing Director, Head of Oil Research, alongside his colleague Lina Thomas, Commodities Strategist, with Goldman Sachs. Daan joined Goldman in 2015 and previously co-led the Goldman Global Economics team as well as the firm's Canada Economics research effort. He holds a Ph.D. in Economics from MIT. Lina joined Goldman after earning her Ph.D. in Economics from Harvard, where she focused on safe-haven assets. We were thrilled to welcome these Ph.D. powerhouses for a deep dive into a topic we haven't yet explored on COBT – the gold markets and how they intersect with oil, gas, copper, interest rates, tariffs, geopolitics, central banks, structural market changes, and more. In our discussion, Lina provides a detailed overview of the historical inverse relationship between gold and interest rates, and highlights the unusual strength of the gold rally that began in 2022. She describes that the rally was triggered by the freezing of Russian central bank assets in February 2022, which prompted central banks, particularly those geopolitically aligned or close to Russia, to increase gold purchases to reduce reliance on politically vulnerable reserve assets. Lina explains that in addition to modest investor inflows, ongoing central bank demand has played a critical role in sustaining gold's price rise and discusses how geopolitical proximity is a key predictor of central bank gold buying. We explore Goldman's approach to estimating actual central bank purchases, which are underreported in official data, Russia's gathering of gold reserves ahead of its invasion of Ukraine, the effects of the war and subsequent sanctions, and how Russia rerouted its gold exports similar to its post-sanction oil trade. Daan outlines Goldman's copper market outlook, including their view on proposed copper tariffs, the anticipated supply deficit by 2026 due to limited investment in new projects, their copper price forecast, and the key short-term drivers influencing copper prices. We cover gold's unique role as a stock rather than a flow asset, with only about one percent of tradable gold coming from annual mine supply, why central banks favor gold over silver, Goldman's four structural investment themes (Dollar Diversification, Defense Spending, Disinvestment in Supply, and De-risking Energy Systems), the firm's crude oil outlook over the next year, and much more. We greatly appreciate Daan and Lina for sharing their time and perspectives. Mike Bradley opened the discussion by noting that “Trumpatility” has faded considerably, with the S&P 500 Volatility Index now trading near year-to-date lows. Ironically, this introduces some degree of risk as broader markets are now technically overbought. Moody's downgraded U.S. debt by one notch this past week but U.S. bonds and equities shrugged it off, mostly because U.S. bonds don't typically move on ratings changes, but more so on inflation and employment growth, while broader equities are driven mostly by forward earnings estimates. The U.S. dollar weakened slightly on the U.S. debt downgrade while Bitcoin and gold prices are trading near all-time highs, likely a reflection of growing U.S. debt levels. He wrapped up with a roundup of notable Energy & Electricity headlines, including: Blackstone Infrastructure's $11.5 billion acquisition of TXNM Energy; Strathcona Resource's $6 billion takeover offer for MEG Energy; Phillips 66's Proxy vote battle with Elliott (involving four board nominations); Trump's unexpected reversal of his recent shutdown of Equinor's Empire Wind 1 project off Long Island; and the recent decline in Permian oil rig count and the potential associated gas growth implications. Jeff Tillery also joined and peppered in his thoughts to the discussion. We hope you find today's discussion as insightful and interesting as we did. Our best to you all!

Sprinting might be the most dangerous—and most effective—thing you're not doing.In this episode, I break down how distance runners can safely and effectively use drills like skips, strides, windups, and sprints to get faster, feel better, and stay injury-free. You'll learn why skipping is the glue that holds your fast running together, how to dose speed work safely, and how each drill fits into your training week. It's not about going hard—it's about going smart. Perfect for any runner wanting to build lasting speed.Key TakeawaysSkipping is a low-impact, high-value movement that primes the nervous system for speed.Each fast running drill (stride, sprint, windup, run-through) serves a unique purpose and timing in your week.You don't need to go all-out to reap the rewards—consistency and safety matter more than intensity.Timestamps[00:00] Intro — why fast running matters for distance runners[01:13] How This Episode Will Work[01:37] Why Skipping[03:50] Why Skipping Is Your New Best Friend[06:42] What Are Strides, Sprints, Windups, and Run Throughs[07:56] How to Do All of Them[10:53] Why Strides Important[12:17] Sprints[15:28] When to Do Windups[17:11] Why Running Fast Matters[19:34] How to Stay Injury Free[21:37] The Finish Line: Concluding ThoughtsLinks & Learnings

Behind the renewable energy revolution lies complex technical infrastructure that CTOs across industries can learn from. Barbara Wittenberg leads a 250-person tech team at 1KOMMA5° that manages real-time data from 40,000+ connected energy assets while coordinating post-merger integration across 80+ companies in 7 countries. This episode unveils the technical architecture powering virtual power plants, where millisecond-level responsiveness can prevent grid failures and optimize energy usage. Barbara's journey from electrical engineering to Oracle and Google, then back to energy tech, provides unique insights on combining domain expertise with cutting-edge technology. Technical leaders will appreciate: -

In this episode of Ageless Athlete, we dive into the metabolic engine room with Dr. Brianna Stubbs—world-class endurance athlete and leading researcher at the Buck Institute for Research on Aging. Brianna bridges the worlds of elite performance and cutting-edge science, specializing in how ketones, fasting, and metabolic flexibility can shape our ability to recover, sustain energy, and age well.This isn't about dieting fads or silver bullets—it's about understanding how your body fuels itself, and how those energy pathways evolve over time. Whether you're an endurance athlete or someone simply trying to stay strong into your 40s, 50s, and beyond, Brianna's insights will give you a fresh way to think about performance and longevity.

Greg Lindsay is an urban tech expert and a Senior Fellow at MIT. He's also a two-time Jeopardy champion and the only human to go undefeated against IBM's Watson. Greg joins thinkenergy to talk about how artificial intelligence (AI) is reshaping how we manage, consume, and produce energy—from personal devices to provincial grids. He also explores its rapid growth and the rising energy demand from AI itself. Listen in to learn how AI impacts our energy systems and what it means individually and industry-wide. Related links ●     Greg Lindsay website: https://greglindsay.org/ ●     Greg Lindsay on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/greg-lindsay-8b16952/ ●     International Energy Agency (IEA): https://www.iea.org/ ●     Trevor Freeman on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/trevor-freeman-p-eng-cem-leed-ap-8b612114/ ●     Hydro Ottawa: https://hydroottawa.com/en  To subscribe using Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/thinkenergy/id1465129405   To subscribe using Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/7wFz7rdR8Gq3f2WOafjxpl   To subscribe on Libsyn: http://thinkenergy.libsyn.com/ --- Subscribe so you don't miss a video: https://www.youtube.com/user/hydroottawalimited Follow along on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/hydroottawa Stay in the know on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/HydroOttawa  Keep up with the posts on X: https://twitter.com/thinkenergypod

In this episode of Energy Vista, Leslie Palti-Guzman speaks with Nicola De Blasio, Senior Fellow at Harvard's Belfer Center, about the transformative potential of #blockchain #technology in #energy systems. They explore how blockchain can improve energy #trading, certify low-carbon commodities like #hydrogen, and enable #decentralized energy access. Nicola also discusses the challenges to adoption — from regulation to misconceptions — and why collaboration across industry, government, and innovators is key to unlocking blockchain's promise. Education is also critical for adoption of this new technology.Recorded on April 25, 2025.

In this episode of the Pace Performance Podcast, Rob speaks to Pete Burridge who delves into the complexities of energy system development in rugby, exploring how it intertwines with tactical and technical execution under physical and mental strain. They discuss the importance of energy system development tailored to the game model, the role of testing in performance, and the strategies employed during pre-season conditioning. Pete shares insights from his experiences at various rugby clubs, emphasizing the need for effective communication between coaches and performance staff to optimize player readiness and performance. In this conversation, Pete discusses various aspects of training methodologies, focusing on progressive overload, heart rate monitoring, and the psychological impacts of training on athletes. He shares insights on the importance of volume in training, the use of heart rate as a performance metric, and the challenges of maintaining athlete engagement. Additionally, he expresses skepticism about Zone 2 training in team sports and explores innovative ways to gamify training sessions to enhance motivation and performance. The conversation culminates in a discussion about high-intensity training protocols and their necessity for athlete development. Main talking points: A high-low training format allows for optimal recovery and intensity management Energy system development should align with the team's game model and coaching strategies Off-feet conditioning is crucial for managing player fatigue and ensuring readiness Gradual integration of new players into conditioning is essential for their adaptation Volume is a key driver for central adaptations like cardiac output Training monotony can be mitigated with engaging strategies Zone 2 training has limited applicability in team sports Gamifying training can enhance athlete engagement and performance

Roman Arutyunov is the Co-founder and SVP of Products at Xage Security, a Series B startup focused on protecting critical infrastructure—including energy systems—from cyber threats. Xage is backed by investors like Chevron Technology Ventures, Aramco, Piva Capital, Valor Equity Partners, and Overture.Cybersecurity is a growing concern as our energy systems become more distributed, electrified, and digitally connected. We spoke with Roman about the vulnerabilities in today's infrastructure, the motivations behind cyberattacks, and how the rise of AI is changing the cybersecurity landscape.In this episode, we cover: [2:11] Introduction to Xage Security[3:12] Cybersecurity 101: Ransomware, nation-state threats, and attacker motivations[7:10] Operational tech (OT) vs. information tech (IT)[13:29] Xage's Zero Trust security approach[15:45] Customer segments and differing security challenges[20:47] Navigating regulations vs. fast deployment timelines[23:40] How AI is shaping both threats and defenses[28:00] When multifactor authentication becomes a vulnerability[31:59] Real-world cyberattacks on energy systems[34:10] Xage's funding history and growth trajectoryEpisode recorded on Feb 20, 2025 (Published on Mar 26, 2025) Enjoyed this episode? Please leave us a review! Share feedback or suggest future topics and guests at info@mcj.vc.Connect with MCJ:Cody Simms on LinkedInVisit mcj.vcSubscribe to the MCJ Newsletter*Editing and post-production work for this episode was provided by The Podcast Consultant

Scott Demark, President and CEO of Zibi Community Utility, joins thinkenergy to discuss how our relationship with energy is changing. With two decades of expertise in clean energy and sustainable development, Scott suggests reimagining traditional energy applications for heating and cooling. He shares how strategic energy distribution can transform urban environments, specifically how district energy systems optimize energy flow between buildings for a greener future. Listen in.   Related links   Scott Demark on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/scott-demark-83640473/ Zibi Community Utility: https://zibi.ca/ Markham District Energy Inc: https://www.markhamdistrictenergy.com/ One Planet Living: https://www.bioregional.com/one-planet-living Trevor Freeman on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/trevor-freeman-p-eng-cem-leed-ap-8b612114/ Hydro Ottawa: https://hydroottawa.com/en   To subscribe using Apple Podcasts:  https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/thinkenergy/id1465129405   To subscribe using Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/7wFz7rdR8Gq3f2WOafjxpl https://open.spotify.com/show/7wFz7rdR8Gq3f2WOafjxpl To subscribe on Libsyn: http://thinkenergy.libsyn.com/ --- Subscribe so you don't miss a video: https://www.youtube.com/user/hydroottawalimited   Follow along on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/hydroottawa   Stay in the know on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/HydroOttawa Transcript: Trevor Freeman  00:07 Welcome to thinkenergy, a podcast that dives into the fast, changing world of energy through conversations with industry leaders, innovators and people on the front lines of the energy transition. Join me, Trevor Freeman, as I explore the traditional, unconventional and up and coming facets of the energy industry. If you have any thoughts, feedback or ideas for topics we should cover, please reach out to us at thinkenergy@hydroottawa.com   Speaker 1  00:29 Hi everyone. Welcome back. One of the overarching aspects of the energy transition that we have talked about several times on this show is the need to change our relationship with energy, to rethink the standard way of doing things when it comes to heating and cooling and transportation, etc. This change is being driven by our need to decarbonize and by the ongoing evolution and improvement of technology. More things are becoming available to us as technology improves on the decarbonization front, we know that electrification, which is switching from fossil fuel combustions to electricity for things like space and water heating vehicles, etc, is one of the most effective strategies. But in order to switch out all the end uses to an electric option, so swapping out furnaces and boilers for heat pumps or electric boilers, switching all gas cars to EVs, etc. In order to do that in a way that is affordable and efficient and can be supported by our electricity grid, we need to think about multi strategy approaches, so we can't just continue to have this one way power grid where every home, every business, every warehouse or office tower satisfies all of its energy needs all the time directly from the grid with no adaptability. That isn't the best approach. It's not going to be affordable or efficient. We're not going to be able to do it fast enough. The multi strategy approach takes into account things like distributed energy resources, so solar and storage, etc, which we've talked about many times on this show, but it also includes approaches like district energy. So, district energy is rethinking how energy flows between adjacent buildings, looking for opportunities to capture excess energy or heat from one source and use that to support another. And that is the focus of today's conversation. To help us dive into this topic, I'm really happy to welcome Scott Demark to the show. Scott has been a champion of sustainability, clean energy solutions and energy efficiency in the Ottawa real estate and development industry for over 20 years now, he has overseen many high-performance development projects and was one of the driving forces behind the Zibi development in downtown Ottawa, and most applicable for today's conversation the renewable district energy system that provides heating and cooling to the Zibi site. Scott is the president and CEO of the Zibi community utility, as well as a partner at Thea partners. Scott Demark, welcome to the show.   Scott Demark  03:15 Thanks. Nice to see you. Trevor,   Trevor Freeman  03:17 So, Scott, why don't we start with definitions are always a good place to start. So, when we talk about a district energy system, give us a high-level overview of what exactly that means.   Scott Demark  03:27 Sure, a district energy system is, is simply the connection, or interconnection of thermal energy sources, thermal energy sinks. And so really, in practical terms. It means, instead of buildings having their own furnace and cooling system, buildings connect to a hydronic loop. A hydronic loop is just pipes filled with water, and then the heat or the cooling is made somewhere else, and that heat or lack of heat cooling is in a pipe. They push the pipe to the building, and then the pipe extracts the heat or rejects the heat to that loop. And so it's simply an interconnection of us as sources and sinks for federal energy.   Trevor Freeman  04:14 And I guess one of the important concepts here is that buildings often create heat, not just through a furnace or not just through the things that are meant to create heat, but, you know, server racks, computer server racks, generate a lot of heat, and that heat has to go somewhere. So oftentimes we're cooling buildings to remove heat that's being created in those buildings, and then other buildings nearby need to be heated in order to make that space comfortable. Is that fair to say?   Scott Demark  04:42 Yeah, absolutely. Trevor, so, an office building in the city of Ottawa, big old government office building, you'll see a pretty big plume on the roof in the winter time. That's not just kind of the flue gas from a boiler, but rather it is actually chillers are. running inside to make cooling, and they're just selling that heat to the atmosphere, even on the coldest day of the year. So, it's people, you know, people are thermal load. Computers are thermal load, and so is solar gain. You know, January is pretty dark period for us, meaning low angle sun. But by this time in a year, you know, or at the end of February, there's a lot of heat in that sun. So, a glass building absorbs a lot of sun. An office building will need cooling on the sunny side of that building a lot of the time, even in the dead of winter.   Trevor Freeman  05:31 Yeah. So, a district system, then, is taking advantage of the fact that heat exists, and we don't necessarily need to either burn fossil fuels or even if it's a, you know, a clean system, we don't have to expend energy to create heat, or create as much heat if we could move that heat around from where it's kind of naturally occurring to where we need it.   Scott Demark  05:54 That's right at the very core of a district energy system. You're going to move heat from a place that it's not wanted to a place that it is wanted. And so in our example of the office building, you know, on the February day with the sun shining in and the computers all running, that building's getting rid of heat. But right next door, say there's a 20-story condo. Well, that 20 story condo needs heating and it also needs domestic hot water. So, year-round, domestic hot water represents 30, 35% of the heating load of any residential building, so at all times. So, a district energy system allows you to take that heat away from the office building and give it to the residential building, instead of making the heat and dissipating that heat to the atmosphere in the office building. So, yeah, it's, it's really a way to move, you know, from sources to sinks. That's, that's what a district energy system does well.   Trevor Freeman  06:48 So we've kind of touched on this a little bit, but let's dive right into, you know, we talk a lot on the show about the energy transition. This, this push to, one, move away from fossil fuel combustion to meet our energy needs. And two, shifting from a kind of static, centralized energy system like we have right now, big generators, large transmission lines, etc., to more of a two-way flow, distributed energy system. What is the role of district energy systems within that transition. How do they help us get closer to that sort of reality that we talk about?   Scott Demark  07:27 I think the biggest way that they help is economies of scale. Okay, so by that, I'll explain that. Imagine there's a lot of technology that's been around a long time that is very scalable to the building level, but most of them are fossil fire. Okay, so the cheapest way to heat a building in Ottawa is to put a gas fired boiler in. That's the cheapest capital cost, first cost, and it's also the cheapest operating cost, is to put a gas boiler in. That industry is well established. There's lots of trades who could do it. There's lots of producers who make the boilers. When you start to try and think about the energy transition and think about what you may do to be different, to be lower carbon, or to be zero carbon, those industries are just starting right. Those industries don't exist. They don't have the same depth, and so they don't have the same cost structure, and often times they don't scale well down to the building. And therefore, a district energy system aggregates a bunch of load, and so you can provide a thermal energy so at scale that becomes affordable. And that is, you know, a very good example of that would be where, you know, you might want to go and recover heat from some process, and we'll talk about Zibi as the example. But if he wanted to go recover heat from some process and bring it in, it doesn't make sense to run a pipeline to a source to heat one building. You can't make financial sense of it, but if you're heating 20 buildings, that pipeline, all of a sudden, makes sense to take waste heat from somewhere, to move it somewhere else. The other advantage is that truly district energy systems are agnostic to their inputs and outputs for heat. So, once you've established that hydronic loop, that interconnection of water pipes between buildings, what the source and what the sources, doesn't matter. So, you may have at one point built a district energy system, and Markham District Energy System is a great example of this market District Energy System was built on the concept of using a co-generation facility. So they burned natural gas to make electricity, they sold electricity to the grid, and they captured all the waste heat from that generation, and they fed it into a district energy system. Well, here we are, 20 plus years later, and, they're going to replace that system, that fossil fired system Augment, not fully replaced, but mostly replace that system with a sewer coupled energy recovery and drive those heat recovery chillers to a sewer system. So, they're putting a very green solution in place of a former fossil solution. They don't have to rip up the pipes, they don't have to change anything in the buildings. They only have to change that central concept. Now, again, Markham could never do that at a one building scale. They're only that at the community scale.   Trevor Freeman  10:21 So, you mentioned, I want to pick on something you said there. You talked about a sewer heat energy system. They're pulling heat from the sewer. Just help our listeners understand high level kind of, why is there heat there for us to pull? Like, what's the what's the source there?   Scott Demark  10:38 Yeah. So, when we shower, when we flush toilets, all of that is introducing heat into a sewer system. So, we're collecting heat from everybody's house into the sewer system. The sewer system also sits below the frost line. So, call it Earth coupled. You know it's the earth in Ottawa below the frost line sits around eight, eight and a half c and so at that temperature and the temperature of flushing toilets, we essentially get a sewer temperature in the on the coldest day of the year, that's around 10 10, and a half degree Celsius. And obviously, for lots of the year, it's much warmer than that. And so I think, you know, a lot of people are kind of familiar with the concept of geo exchange energy, or that. Lot of people call it geothermal, but you exchange where you might drill down into the earth, and you're taking advantage of that eight, eight and a half degrees, I'll see. So, you're exchanging heat, you can reject heat to the earth, or you can absorb heat from the earth. Well, this is the same idea, but you accept or reject from the sewer. But because the sewer is relatively shallow, it is cheaper to access that energy, and because it's warm, and on the coldest day, a couple of degrees make a big difference, Trevor, and most of the year so much warmer, you're really in a very good position to extract that heat, and that's all it is. You are just accepting or rejecting heat. You don't use the sewage itself. It doesn't come into your building. You have a heat exchanger in between. But that's, that's what you do.   Trevor Freeman  12:10 Yeah, great. And I, we've talked before on the show about the idea that, you know, for a air source, heat pump, for example, you don't need a lot of heat energy to extract energy from the air. It can be cold outside, and there is still heat energy in the air that you can pull and use that to heat a building, heat water, whatever. So same concept, except you've got a much warmer source of energy, I guess.   Scott Demark  12:34 Yeah, exactly. And you know, Trevor, when you look at the efficiency curves of those air source heat pumps, you know, they kind of drop off a cliff at minus 20. Minus 22 in fact. You know, five or six years ago, they that that was dropping off at minus 10. So, we've come a long way in air source heat pumps. But imagine on that coldest, coldest day of the year, you're still your source is well above zero, and therefore your efficiency. So, the amount of electricity you need to put into the heat pump to get out the heat that you need is much lower, so it's a way more efficient heat exchange.   Trevor Freeman  13:07 Great. Thanks for that, Scott. I know that's a bit of a tangent here, but always cool to talk about different ways that we're coming up with to heat our buildings. So back to district energy. We've talked through some of the benefits of the system. If I'm a building owner and I'm have the decision to connect to a system that's there, or have my own standalone, you know, traditional boiler, whatever the case may be, or even in a clean energy one, a heat pump, whatever. What are the benefits of being on a district system versus having my own standalone system for just my building.   Scott Demark  13:42 Yeah, so when you're wearing the developer's hat, you know they're really looking at it financially. If they have other goals around sustainability, great, that will factor into it. But most of them are making decisions around this financially. So, it needs to compete with that. That first cost that we talked about the easiest ways, is boilers, gas fired boilers is the cheapest way. And so, they're going to look to see it at how. How does this compare to that? And so, I think that's the best way to frame it for you. And so, the difference here is that you need to install in your building a cooling system and a heating system. In Ottawa, that cooling system is only used for a few months a year, and it's very expensive. It takes up space, whether you're using a chiller and a cooling tower on the roof or using a dry cooler, it takes up roof space, and it also takes up interior space. If you do have a cooling tower, you have a lot of maintenance for that. You need to turn it on and turn it off in the spring, on and fall, etc., just to make sure all that happens and you need to carry the life cycle of that boiler plant. You need to bring gas infrastructure into your building. You generally need to put that gas boiler plant high in your building. So up near the top, and that's for purposes of venting that properly. Now that's taking real estate, right? And it's taking real estate on the area that's kind of most advantageous, worth the most money. So you might lose a penthouse to have a boiler and chiller room up there. And you also, of course, lose roof space. And today, we really do try to take advantage of those rooftop, patios and things, amenities are pretty important in buildings. And so, when I compare that to district energy at the p1 level, p2 level in your building, you're going to have a small room, and I really do mean small where the energy transfer takes place, you'll have some heat exchangers. And small, you might have a space, you know, 10 or 12 feet by 15 to 18 feet would be big enough for a 30-story tower, so a small room where you do the heat exchange and then Trevor, you don't have anything in your building for plants that you would normally look after. So, when you look at the pro forma for owning your building over the lifetime of it. You don't have to maintain boilers. You don't have to have boiler insurance. You don't have to maintain your chillers. You don't have to have life cycle replacement on any of these products. You don't need anybody operating those checking in on the pressure vessels. None of that has to happen. All of that happens on the district energy system. So, you're really taking something you own and operate, and replacing that with a service. So, district energy is a service, and what, what we promised to deliver is the heating you need and the cooling you need. 24/7. The second thing you get is more resilience, and I'll explain that a little bit. Is that in a in a normal building, if you if the engineers looked at it and said, you need two boilers to keep your building warm, then you're probably going to install three. And that is kind of this, and plus one sort of idea, so that if one boiler goes down, you have a spare. And you need to maintain those. You need to pay for that. You need to maintain those, etc. But in district energy system, all that redundancy is done in the background. It's done by us, and we have significantly more redundancy than just n plus one in this example. But overall, you know, if you have 10 buildings on your district energy system, each of those would have had n plus one. We don't have n plus 10 in the plant. And so overall, the cost is lower, I would say, if you look at it globally, except the advantages you do have better than N plus one in the plant. So, we have higher resiliency at a lower cost.   Trevor Freeman  17:39 So, we know there's no such thing as a miracle solution that works in all cases. What are the best use cases for district energy system? Where does it make a lot of sense?   Scott Demark  17:50 Yeah, in terms some, in some ways the easiest things, Pretty work. Doesn't make sense. So, so it doesn't make sense in sprawling low rise development. So, the cost of that hydronic loop those water pipes is high. They have to fit in the roadway. It's civil work, etc. And so, you do need density. That doesn't mean it has to be high rise density.  You know, if you look at Paris, France, six stories district energy, no problem. There's, there's lots and lots of customers for that scale of building. It doesn't have to be all high rise, but it does, District Energy does not lend itself well to our sprawling style of development. It's much more suited to a downtown setting. It also kind of thrives where there's mixed use. You know, I think the first example we were talking about is office building shedding heat, residential building needing heat. You know, couple that with an industrial building shedding heat. You know, these various uses, a variety of uses on a district energy system, is the best, because its biggest advantage is sharing energy, not making energy. And so, a disparity of uses is the best place to use that. I think the other, the other thing to think about, and this is harder in Canada than the rest of the world, is that, you know, it's harder on a retrofit basis, from a cost perspective, than it is in a in a new community where you can put this in as infrastructure. Day one, you're going to make a big difference. And I'll, you know, give a shout out to British Columbia in the Greater Vancouver area. So, the district, you know, down in the Lower Mainland, they, they kind of made this observation and understood that if they were going to electrify, then District Energy gave economies of scale to electrify that load. And they do a variety of things, but one of the things they do is, is kind of district you exchange system so, so big heat pumps coupled to big fields, and then spring heat made a bunch of buildings. But these are green field developments Trevor. So, as they expand their suburbs. They do need to build the six stories. They very much have kind of density around parks concept. So now Park becomes a geo field. Density around the geo field, but this infrastructure is going in the same time as the water pipes. It's going in at the same time as the roads, the sidewalks, etc. You can dramatically reduce your cost, your first cost related to that hydro loop, if you're putting it in the same time you're doing the rest of the services.   Trevor Freeman  20:27 So, we're not likely to see, you know, residential neighborhoods with single family homes or multi-unit homes, whatever, take advantage of this. But that sort of low rise, mid rise, that's going to be more of a good pick for this. And like you said, kind of development is the time to do this. You mentioned other parts of the world. So, district energy systems aren't exactly widespread. In Canada, we're starting to see more of them pop up. What about the rest of the world? Are there places in the world where we see a lot more of this, and they've been doing this for a long time?   Scott Demark  21:00 Yeah. So, I'd almost say every, everywhere in the northern hemisphere, except North America, has done much more of this. And, you know, we really look to kind of Scandinavia as the gold standard of this. You look to Sweden, you look to Denmark, you look to Germany, even. There's, there's a lot of great examples of this, and they are typically government owned. So, they are often public private partnerships, but they would be various levels of government. So, you know, if you, if you went to Copenhagen, you'd see that the municipality is an owner. But then their equivalent of a province or territory is actually a big part of it, too. And when they built their infrastructure ages ago, they did not have an easy source of fossil fuels, right? And so, they need to think about, how can we do this? How can we share heat? How can we centralize the recovery of heat? How can we make sure we don't waste any and this has just been ingrained in them. So there's massive, massive District Energy loops, interconnecting loops, some owned by municipalities. Someone probably, if you build the factory, part of the concept of your factory, part of the pro forma of your factory is, how much can I sell my waste heat for? And so, a factory district might have a sear of industrial partners who own a district energy loop and interfaces with the municipal loop all sort of sharing energy and dumping it in. And so that's, you know, that's what you would study. That's, that's where we would want to be, and the heart of it is, just as I said, we've really had, you know, cheap or, you know, really cheap fossil fuels. We've had no price on pollution. And therefore, it really hasn't needed to happen here. And we're starting to see the need for that to happen here.   Trevor Freeman  22:58 It's an interesting concept to think of, you know, bringing that factory example in, instead of waste heat or heat as a byproduct of your process being a problem that you need to deal with, something you have to figure out a way to get rid of. It becomes almost an asset. It's a it's a, you know, convenient commodity that's being produced regardless, that you can now look to sell and monetize?   Scott Demark  23:21 Yeah, you go back to the idea of, like, what are the big benefits of district energy? Is that, like, if that loop exists and somebody knows that one of the things the factory produces is heat, well, that's a commodity I produce, and I can, I can sell it, if I have a way to sell it right here. You know, we're going to dissipate it to a river. We may dissipate it to the atmosphere. We're going to get rid of it. Like you said, it's, it's, it's waste in their minds and in Europe, that is absolutely not waste.   Trevor Freeman  23:49 And it coming back to that, you know, question of, where does this make sense? You talked about mixed use. And it's also like the, you know, the temporal mix use of someone that is producing a lot of heat during the day when the next-door residential building is empty, then when they switch, when the factory closes and the shift is over and everybody comes home from work, that's when that building needs heat. That's when they want to be then taking that heat to buildings next to each other that both need heat at the same time is not as good a use cases when it's offset like that.   Scott Demark  24:23 Yeah, that's true. And unless lots of District Energy Systems consider kind of surges in storage, I know our system at CB has, has kind of a small storage system related to the domestic hot water peak load. However, you can also think of the kilometers and kilometers and kilometers of pipes full of water as a thermal battery, right? So, so you actually are able to even out those surges. You let the temperature; the district energy system rise. When that factory is giving all out all kinds of heat, it's rising even above the temperature. You have to deliver it at, and then when that peak comes, you can draw down that temperature and let the whole district energy system normalize to its temperature again. So you do have an innate battery in the in the water volume that sits in the district energy system   Trevor Freeman  25:15 Very cool. So you've mentioned Zibi a couple times, and I do want to get into that as much as we're talking about other parts of the world, you know, having longer term district energy systems. Zibi, community utility is a great example, right here in Ottawa, where you and I are both based of a district energy system. Before we get into that, can you, just for our listeners that are not familiar with Zibi, give us a high level overview of what that community is its location, you know, the goals of the community. And then we'll talk about the energy side of things.   Scott Demark  25:46 Sure. So Zibi was formerly Domtar paper mills. It's 34 acres, and it is in downtown Ottawa and downtown Gatineau. About a third of the land mass is islands on the Ontario side, and two thirds the land mass is on the shore, the north shore of the Ottawa River in Gatineau, both downtown, literally in the shadows of Parliament. It is right downtown. It was industrial for almost 200 years. Those paper mills shut down in the 90s and the early 2000s and my partners and I pursued that to turn it from kind of this industrial wasteland, walled off, fenced off, area that no one could go into, what we're hoping will be kind of the world's most Sustainable Urban Community, and so at build out, it will house, you know, about six, 7000 people. It will be four and a half million square feet, 4.24 point 4 million square feet of development. It is master planned and approved, and has built about, I think we're, at 1.1 million square feet, so we're about quarter built out. Now. 10 buildings are done and connected to the district energy system there. And really, it's, it's an attempt to sort of recover land that was really quite destroyed. You can imagine it was a pretty polluted site. So, the giant remediation plan, big infrastructure plan. We modeled this, this overall sustainability concept, over a program called one planet living which has 10 principles of sustainability. So, you know, you and I are talking a lot about carbon today, but there's also very important aspects about affordability and social sustainability and lifestyle, and all of those are incorporated into the one planet program, and encourage people to look up one planet living and understand what it is and look at the commitments that we've made at Zibi to create a sustainable place. We issue a report every year, kind of our own report card that's reviewed by a third party that explains where we are on our on our mission to achieve our goal of the world's most sustainable community.   Speaker 1  28:09 Yeah. And so I do encourage people to look at one planet living also. Have a look at, you know, the Zibi website, and it's got the Master Plan and the vision of what that community will be. And I've been down there, it's already kind of coming along. It's amazing. It's amazing to see the progress compared to who I think you described it well, like a bit of an industrial wasteland at the heart of one of the most beautiful spots in the city. It was really a shame what it used to be. And it's great to see kind of the vision of what it can become. So that's awesome,   Scott Demark  28:38 Yeah, and Trevor, especially now that the parks are coming along. You know, we worked really closely with the NCC to integrate the shoreline of Zibi to the existing, you know, bike path networks and everything. And, you know, two of the three shoreline parks are now completed and open to the public and they're stunning. And you know, so many Ottawa people have not been down there because it's not a place you think about, but it's one of the few places in Ottawa and Gatineau where you can touch the water, you know, like it's, it's, it's stunning,   Trevor Freeman  29:08 yeah, very, very cool. Okay, so the next part of that, of course, is energy. And so there is a district energy system, one of the first kind of, or the most recent big energy, District Energy Systems in Ottawa. Tell us a little bit about how you are moving energy and heating the Zibi site.   Scott Demark  29:29 Yeah. So first, I'll say, you know, we, we, we studied different, uh, ways to get to net zero. You know, we had, we had a goal of being a zero carbon community. There are low carbon examples, but a zero carbon community is quite a stretch. And even when you look at the Scandinavian examples, the best examples, they're missing their energy goals, largely because some of the inputs that are District Energy System remain false so, but also because they have trouble getting them. Performance out of the buildings. And so we looked at this. We also know from our experience that getting to zero carbon at the building scale in Ottawa is very, very difficult. Our climate is tough, super humid, super hot. Summer, very cold, very dry, winter, long winter. So, it's difficult at the building scale. It's funny Trevor, because you'd actually have an easier time getting to zero carbon or a passive house standard in affordable housing than you do at market housing. And that's because affordable housing has a long list of people who want to move in and pay rents. You can get some subsidies for capital and the people who are willing to pay rent are good with smaller windows, thicker walls, smaller units and passthroughs, needs all those kinds of things. So when down at Zibi, you're really selling views, you're competing with people on the outside of Zibi, you're building almost all glass buildings. And so it's really difficult to find a way to get to zero carbon on the building scale. So that moved us to district energy for all the reasons we've talked about today already. And so, when we looked at it for Zibi, you really look at the ingredients you have. One of the great things we have is we're split over the border. It's also a curse, but split over the border is really interesting, because you cannot move electricity over that border, but you can move thermal energy over that border. And so, for us, in thinking about electrifying thermal energy, we realized that if we did the work in Quebec, where there is clean and affordable electricity, we could we could turn that into heat, and then we could move heat to Ontario. We could move chilled water to Ontario. So that's kind of ingredient, one that we had going for us there. The second is that there used to be three mills. So originally Domtar three mills, they sold one mill. It changed hands a few times, but it now belongs to Kruger. They make tissue there so absorbent things, Kleenexes and toilet paper, absorbent, anything in that tissue process that's a going concern. So, you can see that in our skyline. You can see, on cold days, big plumes of waste heat coming out of it. And so, we really saw that as our source, really identified that as our source. And how could we do that? So, going back to the economies of scale, is, could we send a pipeline from Kruger, about a kilometer away, to Zibi? And so, when we were purchasing the land, we were looking at all the interconnections of how the plants used to be realized. There are some old pipelines, some old easements, servitudes, etc. And so, when we bought the land, we actually bought all of those servitudes to including a pipeline across the bridge, Canadian energy regulator licensed across the bridge into Ontario. And so, we mixed all these ingredients up, you know, in a pot, and came up with our overall scheme. And so that overall scheme is relatively simple. We built an energy recovery station at Kruger, where just before their effluent water, like when they're finished in their process, goes back to the river. We have a heat exchanger there. We extract heat. We push that heat in a pipe network over to Zibi. At Zibi, we can upgrade that heat using heat recovery chillers, to a useful temperature for us, that's about 40 degrees Celsius, and we push that across the bridge to Ontario, all of our buildings in Ontario, then have thin coil units. They use that 40-degree heat to heat buildings. The return side of that comes back to Quebec, and then on the Quebec side, we have a loop and all of our buildings in the Quebec side, then use heat pumps so we extract the last bit of heat. So, imagine you you've returned from a fan coil, but you're still slightly warm. That slightly warm water is enough to drive a heat pump inside the buildings. And then finally, that goes back to Kruger again, and Kruger heats it back up with their waste heat comes back. So that's our that's our heating loop. The cooling side is coupled to the Ottawa River. And so instead of us rejecting heat to the atmosphere through cooling towers, our coolers are actually coupled to the river. That's a very tight environmental window that you can operate in. So, we worked with the minister the environment climate change in Quebec to get our permit to do it. We can only be six degrees difference to the river, but our efficiency is, on average, like on an annual basis, more than double what it would be to a cooling tower for the same load. So, we're river coupled with respect to cooling for the whole development, and we're coupled to Kruger for heating for the whole development. And what that allows us to do is eliminate fossil fuels. Our input is clean Quebec electricity, and our output is heating and cooling.   Trevor Freeman  34:56 So, none of the buildings, you know, just for our listeners, none of the buildings have any. sort of fossil fuel combustion heating equipment. You don't have boilers or anything like that, furnaces in these in these buildings,   Scott Demark  35:06 no boilers, no chillers, no   Trevor Freeman  35:09 that's awesome. And just for full transparency, I should have mentioned this up front. So, the zibi community utility is a partnership between Zibi and Hydro Ottawa, who our listeners will know that I work for, and this was really kind of a joint venture to figure out a different approach to energy at the city site.   Scott Demark  35:28 Yeah, that's right, Trevor. I mean the concept, was born a long time ago now, but the concept was born by talking to Hydro Ottawa about how we might approach this whole campus differently. You know, one of hydro Ottawa's companies makes electricity, of course, Chaudiere Falls, and so that was part of the thinking we thought of, you know, micro grids and islanding this and doing a lot of different things. When Ford came in, and we were not all the way there yet and made changes the Green Energy Act. It made it challenging for us to do the electricity side, but we had already well advanced the thermal side, and hydro, you know, hydro makes a good partner in this sort of thing. When a when a developer tells someone, I'd like you to buy a condo, and by the way, I'm also the district energy provider that might put some alarm bells up, but you put a partnership in there with a trusted, long term utility partner, and explain that, you know, it is in the in the public interest, they're not going to jack rates or mess with things. And then obviously, just, you know, hydro had such a long operating record operating experience that they really brought sort of an operations and long-term utility mindset to our district energy system.   Trevor Freeman  36:45 So, looking at a system like the Zibi community utility or other district energy systems, is this the kind of thing that can scale up over time? And, you know, I bring this up because you hear people talk about, you know, a network of district energy systems across a city or across a big geographic area. Are these things that can be interconnected and linked, or does it make more sense as standalone district energy systems in those conditions that you talked about earlier?   Scott Demark  37:17 Very much the former Trevor like, and that's, you know, that's where, you know, places like Copenhagen are today. It's that, you know, there was, there was one district energy system, then there was another, then they got interconnected, then the third got added. And then they use a lot of incineration there, in that, in that part of the world, clean incineration for garbage. And so then an incinerator is coming online, and so that incinerators waste heat is going to be fed with a new district energy loop, and some other factory is going to use the primary heat from that, and then the secondary heat is going to come into the dictionary system. So, these things are absolutely expandable. They're absolutely interconnectable. There are temperature profiles. There's modern, modern thoughts on temperature profiles compared to older systems. Most of the old, old systems were steam, actually, which is not the most efficient thing the world, but that's where they started and so now you can certainly interconnect them. And I think that the example at Zibi is a decent one, because we do have two kinds of systems there. You know, I said we have fan coil units in in the Ontario side, but we have heat pumps on the other side. Well, those two things, they can coexist, right? That's there. Those two systems are, are operating together. Because the difference, you know, the difference, from the customer's perspective, in those two markets are different, and the same can be true in different parts of the city or when different sources and sinks are available. So, it is not one method of doing district energy systems. What you do is you examine the ingredients you have. I keep saying it, but sources and sinks. How can I look at these sources and sinks in a way that I can interconnect them and make sense? And sometimes that means that a source or a sink might be another district energy system,   Trevor Freeman  39:12 Yeah, systems that maybe work in parallel to each other, in cooperation with each other. Again, it's almost that temporal need where there's load high on at one point in time and low on the other point in time. Sharing is a great opportunity.   Scott Demark  39:26 Yeah, absolutely   Trevor Freeman  39:27 great. Okay, last question for you here, Scott, what is needed, maybe from a regulatory or a policy lens to encourage more implementation of district energy systems. How do we see more of these things happen here in Canada or North America?   Scott Demark  39:45 The best way to put this, the bureaucracy has been slow to move is, is what I'll say. And I'll use Zibi as that example. When we when we pitch the district energy system. At Zibi, we had to approach the City of Ottawa, and we had to approach the city at Gatineau, the City of Ottawa basically said to us, no, you can't put those in our streets. Engineering just said, no, no, no, no. And so, what we did at Zibi is we actually privatized our streets in order to see our vision through, because, because Ottawa wasn't on board, the city of Gatineau said, Hmm, I'm a little worried. I want you to write protocols of how you will access your pipes and not our pipes. I want to understand where liability ends and starts and all of this kind of stuff. And we worked through that detail slowly, methodically with the city of Gatineau, and we came to a new policy on how district energy could be in a public street and Zb streets are public on the Gatineau side today, you know, come forward 10 years here, and the City of Ottawa has a working group on how to incorporate District Energy pipes into streets. We've been able to get the City of Ottawa to come around to the idea that we will reject and accept heat from their sewer. You know, Hydro Ottawa, wholly owned company of the City of Ottawa, has an active business in district energy. So Trevor, we've come really far, but it's taken a long time. And so, if you ask me, How can we, how can we accelerate district energy, I think a lot of it has to do with the bureaucracy at municipalities. And you know, we're we see so much interest from the Federation of Canadian municipalities, who was the debt funder for zcu. We have multiple visits from people all over Canada, coming to study and look at this as an example. And I'm encouraged by that. But it's also, it's also not rocket science. We need to understand that putting a pipe in a street is kind of a just, just a little engineering problem to solve, whereas putting, you know, burning fossil fuels for these new communities and putting it in the atmosphere, like the genies out of the bottle, right, like, and unfortunately, I think, for a lot of bureaucrats, the challenge at the engineering level is that that pipe in the street is of immediate, complex danger to solving that problem, whereas it's everybody's problem that the that the carbons in the atmosphere. So, if we could accelerate that, if we could focus on the acceleration of standards around District Energy pipes and streets, the rights of a district energy company to exist, and not to rant too much, but give you an example, is that a developer is required to put gas infrastructure into a new community, required, and yet you have to fight to get a district energy pipe in the street. So there needs to be a change of mindset there, and, and, and we're not there yet, but that's where we need to go.   Trevor Freeman  43:07 Yeah, well, it'll be interesting. You know, in 10 years, let's talk again and see how far we come. Hopefully not 10 years. Hopefully it's more like five, to see the kind of change that you've seen in the last decade. But I think that the direction is encouraging, the speed needs a little bit of work, but I'm always encouraged to see, yeah, things are changing or going in the right direction, just slowly. Well, Scott, we always end our interviews with a series of questions to our guests, so as long as you're okay with it, I'll jump right into those. So, the first question is, what is a book you've read that you think everybody should read?   Scott Demark  43:41 Nexus? Which is by Harare. He's the same author that wrote sapiens. Lots of people be familiar with sapiens. And so, Nexus is, is really kind of the history of information that works like, how do we, how do we share and pass information? And kind of a central thesis is that, you know, information is, is neither knowledge nor truth. It is information, and it's talking a lot about, in the age of AI, how are we going to manage to move information into truth or knowledge? And I think it, you know, to be honest, it kind of scared the shit out of me reading it kind of how, how AI is impacting our world and going to impact our world. And what I thought was kind of amazing about it was that he really has a pretty strong thesis around the erosion of democracy in this time. And it's, it was, it was really kind of scary because it was published before the 2024, election. And so it's, it's really kind of both a fascinating and scary read. And I think really something that everybody should get their head around.   Trevor Freeman  44:59 Yeah, there's a few of those books recently that I I would clear or classify them as kind of dark and scary, but really important or really enlightening in some way. And it kind of helps you, you know, formalize a thought or a concept in your head and realize, hey, here's what's happening, or gives you that kind of the words to speak about it in this kind of fraught time we're in. So same question. But for a movie or a show, is there anything that you think everybody should watch   Scott Demark  45:29 That's harder. I think generally, if I'm watching something, it's for my downtime or own entertainment, and pushing my tastes on the rest of the world, maybe not a great idea. I if I, if I'm, if I'm kind of doing that, I tend to watch cooking shows, actually, Trevor. So, like, that's awesome. I like ugly, delicious. I love David Chang. I like, I like, mind of a chef, creativity behind a chef. So those kinds of things, I'd say more. So, if there was something to like that. I think somebody else should, should watch or listen to I have, I have a real love for Malcolm Gladwell podcast, revisionist history. And so if I thought, you know, my watching habits are not going to going to expand anybody's brain. But I do think that Malcolm's perspective on life is, is really a healthy it's really healthy to step sideways and look at things differently. And I would suggest, if you have never listened to that podcast, go to Episode One, season one, and start there. It's, it's, it's fantastic.   Trevor Freeman  46:39 Yeah, I agree. I'll echo that one. That's one of my favorites. If we were to offer you or not, but if we were to offer you a free round-trip flight, anywhere in the world, where would you go?   Scott Demark  46:50 That's hard. So much flight guilt, you know, I know it's a hard assume that there's carbon offset to it. It's an electric plane.   Trevor Freeman  47:00 That's right, yeah,   Scott Demark  47:01 the we, my family, had a trip planned in 2020 to go to France and Italy. My two boys were kind of at the perfect age to do that. It would have been a really ideal trip. And so, I've still never been to either of those places. And if I had to pick one, probably Italy, I would really like to see Italy, mafuti. I think it would be a fantastic place to go. So probably, probably Italy.   Trevor Freeman  47:25 My favorite trip that I've ever done with my wife and our six-month-old at the time was Italy. It was just phenomenal. It was a fantastic trip. Who's someone that you admire?   Scott Demark  47:36 I have a lot of people, actually, a lot of people in this, in this particular space, like, what would I work in that have brought me here to pick one, though I'd probably say Peter Busby. So, Peter Busby is a mentor, a friend, now a business partner, but, but not earlier in my career. Peter Busby is a kind of a, one of the four fathers, you know, if you will, of green design in Canada. He's an architect, Governor General's Award-winning architect, actually. But I think what I, what I really, appreciate about Peter, and always will, is that he was willing to stand up in his peer group and say, hey, we're not doing this right. And, you know, he did that. He did that in the early 80s, right? Like we're not talking he did it when it cost his business some clients. He did it when professors would speak out against him, and certainly the Canadian Association of architecture was not going to take any blame for the shitty buildings that have been built, right? And he did it. And I remember being at a conference where Peter was getting a Lifetime Achievement Award from the Canadian architects Association, and so he's standing up, and people are all super proud of him. They're talking about his big life. And he kind of belittled them all and said, you're not doing enough. We're not doing enough like he's still he's still there. He's still taking the blame for where things are, and that things haven't moved fast enough, and that buildings are a massive part of our carbon problem, and probably one of the easier areas to fix. You know, we're talking about electric planes. Well, that's a that's a lot more difficult than it is to recover energy from a factory to heat a community, right? I admire him. I learn things from him all the time. He's got a great book out at the moment, actually, and, yeah, he'd be right up there on my in my top list,   Trevor Freeman  49:54 Awesome. What is something about the energy sector or its future that you're particularly excited about?   Scott Demark  50:00 I wish you asked me this before the election. I I'm feeling a little dark. Trevor, I think there needs to be a price on pollution in the world. Needs to be a price on pollution in America, in Canada, and I'm worried about that going away. in light of that, I'm not, I'm not super excited about different technologies at the moment. I think there are technologies that are helping us, there are technologies that are pushing us forward, but there's no like silver bullet. So, you know, a really interesting thing that's coming is kind of this idea that a small nuclear reactor, okay, very interesting idea. You could see its context in both localized electricity production, but all the heat also really good for district entry, okay, so that's an interesting tech. It obviously comes with complications around security and disposal, if you like. There's our nuclear industry has been allowed to drink like it's all complicated. So, I don't see one silver bullet in technology that I'm like, That's the answer. But what I do see, I'll go back to what we were talking about before, is, you know, we had to turn this giant ship of bureaucracy towards new solutions. Okay, that's, that's what we had to do. And now that it's turned and we've got it towards the right course, I'm encouraged by that. I really am. You know, there are champions, and I'll talk about our city. You know, there's champions in the City of Ottawa who want to see this happen as younger people have graduated into roles and planning and other engineering roles there. They've grown up and gone to school in an age where they understand how critical this climate crisis is, and they're starting to be in positions of power and being in decision making. You know, a lot of my career, we're trying to educate people that there was a problem. Now, the people sitting in those chairs, it they understand there's a problem, and what can they do about it? And so I am, I am excited that that the there is a next generation sitting in these seats, making decisions. The bureaucracy the ship is, is almost on course to making this difference. So I do think that's encouraging. We have the technology. We really do. It's not rocket science. We just need to get through the bureaucracy barriers, and we need to find ways to properly finance it.   Trevor Freeman  52:34 Right? I think that's a good place to wrap it up. Scott, thanks so much for your time. I really appreciate this conversation and shedding a little bit of light, not just on the technical side of district energy systems, but on the broader context, and as you say, the bureaucracy, the the what is needed to make these things happen and to keep going in that right direction. So thanks a lot for your time. I really appreciate it.   Scott Demark  52:56 Thank you, Trevor, good to see you.   Trevor Freeman  52:57 All right. Take care. Thanks for tuning in to another episode of The thinkenergy podcast. Don't forget to subscribe. Wherever you listen to podcasts, and it would be great if you could leave us a review. It really helps to spread the word. As always, we would love to hear from you, whether it's feedback, comments or an idea for a show or a guest, you can always reach us at thinkenergy@hydroottawa.com

Please join Madelina Light and me as we talk about BioEnergy Healing for Deep Overnight Sleep, Purpose Premonition & Lucid Dreaming. Uncovering The Often Overlooked BioEnergetic & Spiritual Root Causes of Sleepless Nights, How to Get A Sound Sleep, and Live Purposefully - with the help of BioEnergy Healing, and Light & Sound Frequencies Transmissions! Join us live to discover: -The Current Cosmic/Galactic & Planetary Energies Influencing Our BioFields, and Our Sleep Pattern! (Current Times Energy Update) -The Crucial Role of Sleeping Well Overnight from a Spiritual & Energetic Prospective, and The Lack of Sleep Symptomatology! -The Spiritual Connection in between Sleeping Well Overnight, and Our Life Purpose & Joy! -The 2 Most Important Types of Premonition, How to recognize Them & The Essential Role of Premonitions in our Lives! -What is Lucid Dreaming & How We can Use it to realize Our Dreams & Desires in All areas of Our Lives, and Change Our Lives Completely through Timeline Shifting/ Jumping?  -How The BioEnergy Healing can Help You Sleep well Overnight, to Weak Up rested in The Morning, and Live a more Purposeful, Joyful & Sovereign Lifestyle? Join Us Live on March 20th, 2025 @ 3:00 Pm ET during THE EQUINOX GATEWAY PORTAL for: -A Chance to Receive A FREE MINI BIOFIELD INTUITIVE READING (DENSE or BLOKED BIOENERGY SCAN) & CLEARING by Madelina. -Madelina will also do An EQUINOX PORTAL GROUP MEDITATION to Help You Reach a State of Balance, Harmony & Bliss.  Madelina is a BioEnergy Multidimensional Intuitive, A Clairsentient, An Empath - A Divine Love/Light & Sound Frequencies Transmitter & Soul Connector - A Star Seed, A Way Shower, and An Earth Light Grids Keeper. She telepathically receives messages from the Body's Energy Systems, the Divine/ Soul/ Higher Self, the Ascended Masters, and Benevolent Galactic Star Beings (including The Arcturians & The Lions Star Beings), and Spirit Guides. Madelina is a trained Dentist, who Spiritually Awakened in the Summer of 2014, embracing a Path of Self Discovery, Self Enlightenment, and Soul Realization ever since. She remembered and stepped further into Her Soul Purpose as A BioEnergy Healer, Teacher and Humanitarian, and She was guided by Her Divine Soul/ Higher Self to share Her Intuitive Gifts in Service to Others, all Kingdoms, and Mother Earth. Speaker Gifts: https://awakentohappinessnow.com Madelina's Offers: https://awakentohappinessnow.com/s37madelina/ #shefaliburns , #awakentohappinessnow, #healing, #energy, #transformation, #consciousness, #love, #consciousliving, #joy, #empowerment, #wellness, #spirituality, #spiritualawakening, #awareness, #madelinalight

How is Great Britain developing a coordinated plan to evolve all of its energy networks toward complete decarbonization?

Are you always bickering over whether it's too hot or too cold in your home?And does your other half want the heating boosted up while you would rather a cool breeze circulate?Aoife Foley, Professor in Energy Systems and Chair in Net Zero Infrastructure at the University of Manchester joins Seán to discuss.

In this episode of Laid Open Podcast, I welcome back Dr. Keesha Ewers, a specialist in integrative medicine and functional sexology. We discuss the critical yet often overlooked topic of menopause, highlighting how women's health issues, particularly post-childrearing, are neglected in society and underfunded in research.  Dr. Keesha and I provide insights into hormone replacement therapy (HRT), discussing various options like pellets, patches, and creams and emphasizing the importance of bioidentical hormones. We explain why not everyone needs HRT and the significant role of lifestyle choices, diet, and exercise in managing menopause symptoms.  Our conversation also delves into how the body communicates its needs through everyday signs like urine color, vaginal health, and bowel movements. Additionally, we explore the impact of trauma, stress, and genetic factors on hormone levels.  Dr. Keesha and I encourage listeners to tune into their bodies and get curious about their symptoms, offering practical advice on how to start addressing menopausal issues holistically. Every episode is now on YouTube, which you can watch via the link in my bio or by searching LaidOPEN.  Additionally, the best way to support my work is by liking, sharing, and leaving a review for my podcast.

In this Convo of Flanigan's Eco-Logic, Ted speaks with Mark Swanson, newly appointed as the CEO of Aeromine Technologies, the innovative rooftop wind energy system that converts a building's wind flow into renewable energy. Swanson brings 30 years of leadership experience to Aeromine. For the last 12 years, he has held leadership positions in the rooftop solar industry, with a proven track record in manufacturing, scaling operations, and driving customer-focused growth.Prior to joining Aeromine, Swanson held a distinguished career in solar and distributed energy, serving as COO at Complete Solaria. He also spent time as COO and General Manager of EPC at Borrego Solar Systems, and served as Vice President at SunPower. In his new role as CEO at Aeromine, Mark will oversee Aeromine's transition from low volume manufacturing and pilot projects to full-scale manufacturing and widespread commercial use. He shares that Aeromine is currently working with some of the world's largest and most ambitious enterprises to plan their first commercial Aeromine installation.He and Ted discuss Aeromine's breakthrough technology, which is harvesting the flow of wind over a building. The scalable renewable energy solution harnesses the power of wind in an efficient system, with motionless, vibration-less, and noise-less units. The solution is long-lasting, and requires much less rooftop space than other options to generate distributed energy. Ideal for large, flat rooftop buildings – including warehouses, big box retailers, data centers, office, and apartment buildings - Aeromine is leveraging existing financial structures, installation resources and incentives established by the solar industry.

Kyle Bateman brings a wealth of experience and a passion for open-source solutions to public policy problems. Get ready for an inspiring conversation about technology, freedom, and the future of decentralized systems.#financialsystem #votingsystem #crypto================All Episodes can be found at www.thecryptopodcast.org All about Roy / Brain Gym & Virtual Assistants athttps://roycoughlan.com/------------------   About my Guest Kyle Bateman:Kyle Bateman is the founder of GotChoices.org, where innovation promotes freedom. He is the driving force behind MyCHIPs.org, a decentralized digital currency network, and VoteTorrent.org, an open-source voting platform. With a background in engineering, entrepreneurship, and finance, Kyle brings a wealth of experience and a passion for open-source solutions to public policy problems. What we Discussed: 00:00 Who is Kyle Bateman01:30 His profession and why he started all 3 projects05:45 Bitcoin Problems11:00 Is it Possible to Step Away from the FIAT System16:20 How do you put your Money into the System31:20 how Banks Create Money32:30 A Tally Stick, the ancient form of money39:30 Compassionate Social Society System43:30 How do we get the Project Started48:00 Who they need to get this started48:45 How is he funding this50:05 What is Vote Torrent1:01:00 How to Prevent Corruption with the Voting1:07:20 The e-Residency Estonian System1:08:40 The Current Status of Vote Torrent1:10:10 Got Choices Projects including Energy Projects1:13:05 The Recycling Lie1:14:00 The Egg Shortage1:15:20 The Energy Systems that are QuashedHow to Contact Kyle Bateman : https://gotchoices.org/https://mychips.org/https://votetorrent.org/https://www.linkedin.com/in/kyle-bateman-1247783/https://www.youtube.com/@gotchoices------------------All about Roy / Brain Gym & Virtual Assistants at ⁠https://roycoughlan.com/⁠ ___________________

Kyle Bateman brings a wealth of experience and a passion for open-source solutions to public policy problems. Get ready for an inspiring conversation about technology, freedom, and the future of decentralized systems.#financialsystem #votingsystem #crypto================All Episodes can be found at www.thecryptopodcast.org All about Roy / Brain Gym & Virtual Assistants athttps://roycoughlan.com/------------------   About my Guest Kyle Bateman:Kyle Bateman is the founder of GotChoices.org, where innovation promotes freedom. He is the driving force behind MyCHIPs.org, a decentralized digital currency network, and VoteTorrent.org, an open-source voting platform. With a background in engineering, entrepreneurship, and finance, Kyle brings a wealth of experience and a passion for open-source solutions to public policy problems. What we Discussed: 00:00 Who is Kyle Bateman01:30 His profession and why he started all 3 projects05:45 Bitcoin Problems11:00 Is it Possible to Step Away from the FIAT System16:20 How do you put your Money into the System31:20 how Banks Create Money32:30 A Tally Stick, the ancient form of money39:30 Compassionate Social Society System43:30 How do we get the Project Started48:00 Who they need to get this started48:45 How is he funding this50:05 What is Vote Torrent1:01:00 How to Prevent Corruption with the Voting1:07:20 The e-Residency Estonian System1:08:40 The Current Status of Vote Torrent1:10:10 Got Choices Projects including Energy Projects1:13:05 The Recycling Lie1:14:00 The Egg Shortage1:15:20 The Energy Systems that are QuashedHow to Contact Kyle Bateman : https://gotchoices.org/https://mychips.org/https://votetorrent.org/https://www.linkedin.com/in/kyle-bateman-1247783/https://www.youtube.com/@gotchoices------------------All about Roy / Brain Gym & Virtual Assistants at ⁠https://roycoughlan.com/⁠ ___________________

In this episode of Energy News Beat Live from NAPE – Conversation in Energy, host Stuart Turley sits down with Jeff Krimmel, an energy analyst and consultant, who shares insights into the oil and gas industry, including Oxy's high production costs and the challenges faced by high-cost producers. They discuss the impact of carbon capture technologies, deregulation, and how regulatory changes could benefit smaller operators. Krimmel emphasizes the importance of balancing energy affordability, sustainability, and security while recognizing the need for pragmatic approaches to global energy systems. He also talks about his consulting work, helping executives make data-driven decisions, and the evolving energy landscape, including the growing role of natural gas and AI in shaping the future.This was an absolute blast with Jeff, and we are going to be talking once a month for a check into his analysis of great insights into the energy, oil, and gas markets.Thank you, Jeff, for stopping by the NAPE booth, and I am looking forward to visiting more often!I recommend following Jeff on his LinkedIn HERE: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jeffkrimmel/And sign up for his newsletter HERE: https://jeffkrimmel.carrd.co/Highlights of the Podcast00:00 - Intro01:10 - Discussion on Oxy's Business Model and Costs04:11 - Impact of Carbon Capture on Oxy04:44 - Investing in High-Cost Producers06:04 - Regulatory Environment and Its Impact on Small and Mid-Tier Operators06:34 - Regulatory Changes and Their Potential Benefits for Smaller Operators08:39 - The Role of Major Oil Companies and ESG Considerations10:17 - Energy Analysis and Consulting Services15:45 - Energy Market Trends and Future Outlook18:48 - The Future of Energy Systems and Sustainability22:25 - Closing and Contact InformationThe Full Podcast Transcript is available on the Energy News Beat Substack: https://theenergynewsbeat.substack.com/

Unveiling the Wonders of Animal Communication with Heidi Wright In this episode of Soul Elevation, I was so excited to talk with my friend, Heidi Wright. Heidi is an exceptionally gifted animal communicator/pet psychic, who is regularly featured on TV in Japan and Korea. Heidi shares extraordinary stories from her extensive career that highlight her unique ability to telepathically communicate with animals. Hear about her incredible experience with a beluga whale in the wild, her insights from a grouper in an aquarium, and more. Central to her work is verifying the insights she gets, and it is fascinating to not only hear what she receives from the animals, but then to get these wildly unexpected insights verified by the humans in the animals' lives is astounding. Learn how Heidi transitioned from a law enforcement background to mastering animal communication, and discover tips on how you can connect with animals yourself. This episode also explores Heidi's encounters with diverse animals—from dolphins to tarantulas—and the profound wisdom she's gathered from them. Tune in to be inspired by Heidi's remarkable gifts and her journey beyond the veil. Resources: Connect with Heidi and explore her work: https://critterconnections.net Join Heidi and Kara at the Reaching Through the Veil Summit: https://www.karagoodwin.com/through-veil-summit  Timestamp: 00:00 Introduction to Soul Elevation 00:11 Meet Heidi Wright: Animal Communicator Extraordinaire 00:27 Heidi's Fascinating Stories from Japan and Korea 01:23 Personal Experience with Heidi's Gift 03:03 Upcoming Reaching Through the Veil Summit 04:06 Interview Begins: Heidi's Journey to Animal Communication 06:11 The Mechanics of Animal Communication 06:40 Validating Animal Communication 09:05 Heidi's TV Experiences and Cold Reads 14:24 Teaching Animal Communication 16:22 Recognizing and Developing Psychic Abilities 21:28 Seeing and Sensing Energy 32:47 Healing and Energy Work with Animals  37:11 Energy Systems in Animals  39:04 Communicating with Insects and Arachnids 43:13 Experiences with Dolphins and Whales 52:11 Surprising Animal Communications 01:06:58 Teaching and Working with People 01:11:06 Conclusion and Final Thoughts

Stephen Daniel, an artist and writer whose work explores the intersection of the physical and nonphysical worlds. He is the author of Brighter Realms, a book that delves into the deeper aspects of consciousness, spiritual awakening, and our connection to higher dimensions.Stephen shares his personal experiences with out-of-body phenomena that began in childhood, how society conditions us away from these experiences, and the journey he took to rediscover and embrace his nonphysical nature. We discuss the higher self, energetic families, soul groups, discernment, and how to reconnect with our essence in a world that often pulls us away from it.Where to find Stephen: Website: https://brighterrealms.com/Book: https://brighterrealms.com/book/Email: brighterrealms@gmail.comSend us a textSUBSCRIBE TO OUR YOUTUBE CHANNEL: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCr0p1zDPaPLmnmI3AIWhDFQFOLLOW US: TikTok - @shiftingdimensions444 Instagram - @shiftingdimensions_podDISCLAIMER: The views, thoughts, and opinions expressed are the guest's own and do not represent the views, thoughts, and opinions of Shifting Dimensions. The material and information presented here is for general information and entertainment purposes only.

In this episode, our guest is Dani Alexander, CEO of the Energy Institute at the University of New South Wales. Dani shares insights on Australia's rapid transition to renewable energy, the rise of rooftop solar, and how decentralized energy is transforming the grid. She discusses consumer-led energy solutions, energy equity, and the critical role of the demand-side of the energy system in promoting the rollout of renewables.   Connect with Sohail Hasnie: Facebook @sohailhasnie Twitter @shasnie LinkedIn @shasnie ADB Blog Sohail Hasnie

We are nearing then end of our hard to kill training series and today we are continuing with some conditioning. 

We have covered a lot of strength but now we are moving into conditioning in the hard to kill programming series. 

Join John and leading energy researcher Aidan Morrison as they outline why nuclear power should be at the centre of Australia's energy strategy. Aidan argues that modern nuclear technology is safe, and superior to renewables in terms of its reliability and cost. The discussion illuminates the misinformation which has characterised Australia's energy debate, calling for a shake-up in energy governance in order to ensure that policies are based on engineering and economic realities rather than distorted political narratives.   Aidan also debunks the popular belief that Australia's vast land and abundant sunshine make it uniquely suited for a wind and solar-powered grid, pointing out that these energy sources require massive infrastructure investments to be reliable. He suggests that ideological opposition and entrenched interests have prevented a rational discussion on nuclear power, despite its potential to provide affordable, clean, and secure energy.   Aidan Morrison is a leading researcher into Energy Systems and currently the Director of Energy Research at the Centre for Independent Studies. In 2023 he exposed how the famous CSIRO report “GenCost” excluded vast costs required to integrate and firm renewables by treating them as “sunk” costs. In 2024 he was amongst the strongest voices calling for nuclear energy in Australia and was a leading critic of the ‘Integrated System Plan' (or ISP): Australia's blue-print for a transition to an energy system dominated by wind and solar. Following the conclusion of a recent Senate Inquiry into Australia's energy planning and regulation, Aidan reached the conclusion that the ISP is “worse than useless” and declared that trust in Australia energy establishment is now so badly broken that a series of resignations will be required to restore the credibility and respect that regulatory organisations required to administer the energy system.    

In this episode, EPRI experts examine a new corner of the energy industry: agrivoltaics. Agrivoltaics is when solar PV panels are installed above crops so that the same land can be simultaneously used for energy and food production.   Learn from EPRI experts, Terry Jennings and Bailee Neary, on how EPRI is helping utilities explore this emerging practice. Plus, you'll hear an overview of agrivoltaics today, and where it may go in the future thanks to AI.   Learn more in this recent EPRI Journal article: https://eprijournal.com/a-marriage-of-sun-farmland-and-technology/   Guests: TERRY JENNINGS -  Team Leader for Environmental Aspects of Wind & Solar at EPRI, and BAILIE NEARY - Researcher for Energy Systems & Climate Analysis Group at EPRI   Learn more at EPRI.com    If you enjoy this podcast, please subscribe and share! And please consider leaving a review and rating on Apple Podcasts/iTunes.      Follow EPRI: LinkedIn https://www.linkedin.com/company/epri/  Twitter https://twitter.com/EPRINews      EPRI Current examines key issues and new R&D impacting the energy transition. Each episode features insights from EPRI, the world's preeminent independent, non-profit energy research and development organization, and from other energy industry leaders. We also discuss how innovative technologies are shaping the global energy future. Learn more at www.epri.com     

District energy systems employ a centralized facility to supply heating, cooling, and sometimes electricity for multiple buildings in an area through a largely underground, mostly unseen network of pipes. When district energy systems are utilized, individual buildings do not need their own boilers, chillers, and cooling towers. This offers a number of benefits to building owners and tenants. Among them are: • Energy Efficiency. Centralized heating/cooling is more efficient than individual building systems, reducing energy use by 30% to 50% in some cases. • Cost Savings. Lower operations and maintenance costs through economies of scale and reduced equipment needs per building. • Reduced Environmental Impacts. Emissions are lessened and renewable energy resources can often be more easily integrated. • Reliability. A more resilient energy supply is often provided, with redundant systems and professional operation. • Space Optimization. Buildings need less mechanical equipment, freeing up valuable space. The concept is far from new. In fact, Birdsill Holly is credited with deploying the U.S.'s first district energy system in Lockport, New York, in 1877, and many other cities incorporated district systems into their infrastructure soon thereafter. While district energy systems are particularly effective in dense urban areas, they're also widely used at hospitals and at other large campuses around the world. “There's over 600 operating district energy systems in the U.S., and that's in cities, also on college and university campuses, healthcare, military bases, airports, pharma, even our sort of newer industries like Meta, Apple, Google, their campuses are utilizing district energy, because, frankly, there's economies of scale,” Rob Thornton, president and CEO of the International District Energy Association (IDEA), said as a guest on The POWER Podcast. “District energy is actually quite ubiquitous,” said Thornton, noting that systems are common in Canada, throughout Europe, in the Middle East, and many other parts of the world. “But, you know, not that well-known. We're not visible. Basically, the assets are largely underground, and so we don't necessarily have the visibility opportunity of like wind turbines or solar panels,” he said. “So, we quietly do our work. But, I would guess that for the listeners of this podcast, if they went to a college or university in North America, I bet, eight out of 10 lived in a dorm that was supplied by a district heating system. So, it's really a lot more common than people realize,” said Thornton.

Welcome to another enlightening episode of Exploring the Mystical Side of Life with your host Linda Lang. This week, we dive into mastering your energy system with Dimitri Moraitis, co-director of the Spiritual Arts Institute and co-author of "Change Your Aura, Change Your Life." Join us as Dimitri shares his profound insights on resilience, the spiritual path, and your energy systems roll in creating your life. Learn the power of using protective colors like gold to strengthen your aura and how daily spiritual hygiene is as essential as physical care. In episode 240: - Your Energy Environment - Energy System Hygiene - Higher Self Connection - Spiritual Bank Account - Meditation & Visualization Practices - Handling Negative Energy - Law of Attraction and Aura - Spirit Guides and Angels Learn more at: https://spiritualarts.org/ References: Change Your Aura, Change Your Life by Barbara Martin and Dimitri Moraitis; The Spiritual Arts Institute If you'd like to buy us a cup of coffee, contributions (any amount) can be made to https://paypal.me/thoughtchange or https://www.buymeacoffee.com/s0ycsy6sj9. Thank you! Your donations help us produce more great episodes! Visit Linda Lang at https://ThoughtChange.com Freebies: https://thoughtchange.vipmembervault.com/ Free Meditations: https://insighttimer.com/thoughtchange Spiritual blog: https://medium.com/@thoughtchange123 Produced by Linda Lang, ThoughtChange, Box 551 Richmond, ON, Canada K0A2Z0 #mysticallife #spiritualenergy #aurahealing #meditation #divineguidance #energyprotection #spiritualawakening #positiveenergy #lawofattraction #podcast #spiritualarts #metaphysics #mysticism Produced by Linda Lang, ThoughtChange, Box 551 Richmond, ON, Canada K0A2Z0 Discover the concept of sending protective light ahead of you in challenging situations and how accessing your higher self can offer divine guidance. We also explore the intriguing idea of a "spiritual bank account," the importance of initiating change, and managing different energy environments. Distinguish between divine energies and those born of negative emotions, and how your aura reflects and impacts your life's experiences. Dive deep into spiritual lessons on worry and trust, the law of attraction, and the unseen guidance of spiritual beings. Whether you're new to metaphysical practices or a seasoned spiritual seeker, this episode offers valuable insights to elevate your spiritual journey. Tune in now to start mastering your energy and transforming your life. For more resources and information about Dimitri Moraitis and his work, visit the Spiritual Arts Institute. Learn more at: https://spiritualarts.org/ References: Change Your Aura, Change Your Life by Bara Martin and Dimitri Moraitis; The Spiritual Arts Institute If you'd like to buy us a cup of coffee, contributions (any amount) can be made to https://paypal.me/thoughtchange or https://www.buymeacoffee.com/s0ycsy6sj9. Thank you! Your donations help us produce more great episodes! Visit Linda Lang at https://ThoughtChange.com Freebies: https://thoughtchange.vipmembervault.com/ Free Meditations: https://insighttimer.com/thoughtchange Spiritual blog: https://medium.com/@thoughtchange123 Produced by Linda Lang, ThoughtChange, Box 551 Richmond, ON, Canada K0A2Z0 #mysticallife #spiritualenergy #aurahealing #meditation #divineguidance #energyprotection #spiritualawakening #positiveenergy #lawofattraction #podcast #spiritualarts #metaphysics #mysticism

In this second part of a miniseries on how the UK is evolving its energy system, we discuss innovations on the electricity grid.

Send me a messageIn this week's episode of the Climate Confident podcast, I'm joined by Anders Lindberg, President of Wärtsilä Energy, to unpack the complexities of the global energy transition. Wärtsilä has a wealth of insight into how we can move towards a 100% renewable energy future—without breaking the bank.Anders and I dive into the often-overlooked need for flexibility in energy systems. While solar and wind energy have become cheaper and more widespread, integrating them effectively into existing grids is far from straightforward. Anders explains how Wärtsilä's grid-balancing engines and battery storage solutions can work together to stabilise energy supply, preventing curtailment and ensuring renewables deliver maximum impact.We explore why relying solely on renewables and battery storage leads to significantly higher costs, using Chile as a case study where a more balanced system could save $17 billion in investment. Anders also tackles the future of green hydrogen, acknowledging its promise while stressing it won't scale up meaningfully until 2035 or later. In the meantime, he makes the case for natural gas as a transitional fuel, with Wärtsilä's engines already primed to run on sustainable fuels when they become viable.Key takeaways from this episode:Flexibility is critical: Balancing technologies like batteries and flexible engine power plants are essential for integrating renewables efficiently.Curtailment hurts progress: Inflexible grids force renewables offline, undermining their financial viability and prolonging fossil fuel reliance.Future-proof investments: Wärtsilä's hydrogen-ready engines ensure today's investments won't become stranded assets tomorrow.Policy matters: Anders highlights how regulatory environments, like Texas' nodal pricing and the Texas Energy Fund, can either accelerate or hinder the energy transition.If you're interested in how we can accelerate decarbonisation while maintaining energy security and controlling costs, this conversation offers plenty to consider.For more on Wärtsilä's work in shaping the future of energy, check out their website [insert link], or connect with Anders Lindberg on LinkedIn.Thanks for tuning in—let's stay climate confident!Support the showPodcast supportersI'd like to sincerely thank this podcast's amazing supporters: Lorcan Sheehan Jerry Sweeney Andreas Werner Stephen Carroll Roger Arnold And remember you too can Support the Podcast - it is really easy and hugely important as it will enable me to continue to create more excellent Climate Confident episodes like this one.ContactIf you have any comments/suggestions or questions for the podcast - get in touch via direct message on Twitter/LinkedIn. If you liked this show, please don't forget to rate and/or review it. It makes a big difference to help new people discover the show. CreditsMusic credits - Intro by Joseph McDade, and Outro music for this podcast was composed, played, and produced by my daughter Luna Juniper

Join host Linda Lang as she delves into the world of energy mastery with Dimitri Moraitis, co-director of the Spiritual Arts Institute. In this episode, Dimitri shares profound insights on the power of the aura and energy.

Welcome to our first podcast episode of 2025. We're taking a look back at 2024 and sharing the highlights. You'll hear segments from several episodes providing insights from industry experts and addressing topics such as AI and cyber security, electrification, nuclear innovation, and the future of the energy workforce. Join us as we reflect on the best from 2024 and get ready for an exciting lineup of new EPRI Current episodes in 2025. Listen in every other week as we bring you the latest research, industry insights, and more.   2024 Guests Featured in this “Best of” Episode: Ambition into Action Series: Dan Moneghan, EPRI, Advanced Nuclear Fuel Cycles 24. From Emissions to Solutions: Unpacking the IRA's Impact on Climate Change Dr. John Bistline, Program Manager of EPRI's Energy Systems and Climate Analysis Group Dr. Jesse Jenkins, Assistant Professor of the Department of Mechanical & Aerospace Engineering and the Andlinger Center for Energy & Environment at Princeton University 31. Practical Realities of the Clean Energy Transition Neva Espinoza, EPRI Senior Vice President, Energy Supply and Low Carbon Resources 38. Electrifying the Future of Fleets Britta Gross, EPRI Director of Transportation Diego Quevedo, Daimler Truck's Charging Infrastructure Sr. Engineer & Utilities Lead 39. AI and Generative AI: Potential Cybersecurity Impacts to the Energy Industry? Jason Hollern, EPRI Cybersecurity Technical Executive Marc Spieler, Senior Managing Director for Energy, NVIDIA 40. From Reactors to Roles: The Future of Nuclear Power Kimberly Cook-Nelson, Chief Nuclear Officer, Entergy Steve Swilley, Chief Nuclear Officer, EPRI     42. From the Gulf: Powering the Future Eng. Ahmed Ebrahim, CEO, GCCIA Daniel Brooks, EPRI Senior Vice President, Energy Delivery and Customer Solutions   Learn more at EPRI.com    If you enjoy this podcast, please subscribe and share! And please consider leaving a review and rating on Apple Podcasts/iTunes.      Follow EPRI: LinkedIn https://www.linkedin.com/company/epri/  Twitter https://twitter.com/EPRINews      EPRI Current examines key issues and new R&D impacting the energy transition. Each episode features insights from EPRI, the world's preeminent independent, non-profit energy research and development organization, and from other energy industry leaders. We also discuss how innovative technologies are shaping the global energy future. Learn more at www.epri.com     

In this first part of a miniseries on how the UK is evolving its energy system, we discuss its world-leading efforts to meet its decarbonization goals.

As climate crisis ensues, a transition away from fossil fuels becomes urgent. However, some renewable energy developments are propagating injustices such as landgrabs, colonial dispossession, and environmentally destructive practices. Changing the way we imagine and understand wind will help us ensure a globally just wind energy future. Saharan Winds: Energy Systems and Aeolian Imaginaries in Western Sahara (WVU Press, 2024) contributes to a fairer energy horizon by illuminating the role of imaginaries—how we understand energy sources such as wind and the meanings we attach to wind—in determining the wider politics, whether oppressive or just, associated with energy systems. This book turns to various cultures and communities across different time periods in Western Sahara to explore how wind imaginaries affect the development, management, and promotion of wind farms; the distribution of energy that wind farms produce; and, vitally, the type of politics mediated by all these elements combined. Highlighting the wind-fueled oppression of colonial energy systems, the book shows the potential offered by nomadic, Indigenous wind imaginaries for contributing to a fairer energy future. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices Support our show by becoming a premium member! https://newbooksnetwork.supportingcast.fm/new-books-network

In part one of a new series on pickleball conditioning, I break down the science behind conditioning and reveal why most players are training incorrectly. I provide a detailed overview of the energy systems you need to train to transform your game and prevent burnout. Learn: Why traditional conditioning methods might be hurting your pickleball performance How three distinct energy systems power your gameplay differently The hidden connection between skill development and physical conditioning The critical mistake singles players make in their training approach Why some players gas out while others maintain intensity Join the Ultimate Pickleball Off-Season Program. Click here to learn more. Get my weekly newsletter - Adaptation Book Erik for your next event Start AIM7 for Free Quotable moments: "You can't separate strength and conditioning from skill development. They're two sides of the same coin." - Dr. Erik Korem "Every activity affects all the systems in your body - nervous system, musculoskeletal, cardiovascular and more. Nothing operates in isolation." - Dr. Erik Korem "The stronger your aerobic system, the less you'll rely on anaerobic metabolism, which means you can maintain higher outputs without burning out." - Dr. Erik Korem   ABOUT THE BLUEPRINT PODCAST: The BluePrint Podcast is for busy professionals and Household CEOs who care deeply about their families, career, and health. Host Dr. Erik Korem distills cutting edge-science, leadership, and life skills into simple tactics optimized for your busy lifestyle and goals.   Dr. Korem interviews scientists, coaches, elite athletes, entrepreneurs, entertainers, and exceptional people to discuss science and practical skills you can implement to become the most healthy, resilient, and impactful version of yourself. On a mission to equip people to pursue audacious goals, thrive in uncertainty, and live a healthy and fulfilled life, Dr. Erik Korem is a High-Performance pioneer. He introduced sports science and athlete-tracking technologies to collegiate and professional (NFL) football over a decade ago. He has worked with the National Football League, Power-5 NCAA programs, gold-medal Olympians, Nike, and the United States Department of Defense. Erik is an expert in sleep and stress resilience. He is the Founder and CEO of AIM7, the #1 pickleball health and performance app that helps pickleball players win more, recovery faster, and prevent pain and injury. SUPPORT & CONNECT Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/erikkorem/ Twitter - https://twitter.com/ErikKorem LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/erik-korem-phd-19991734/ Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/erikkorem Website - https://www.erikkorem.com/ Newsletter - https://adaptation.beehiiv.com/subscribeSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Can nuclear fusion become the ultimate renewable energy source? Neil deGrasse Tyson and co-host Chuck Nice answer fan questions about transporters, the smallest unit of time, expansion, and other ideas that push the boundaries of our understanding of the universe.NOTE: StarTalk+ Patrons can listen to this entire episode commercial-free.Thanks to our Patrons Day53, May Jo Williams, Tisha Bernal, Jeff Holcombe, Lorenzo & Elisabetta, C Hahn, Charles Maluf, Paul Levine, Crystal Barnes, and Peter Brush for supporting us this week.