Podcasts about Loon

WhoDoug Fish, founder of the Snowvana ski show and Indy PassDate RecordedSept. 30, 2026About SnowvanaSnowvana is a “winter kick-off festival” (a ski show) scheduled for a four-city 2026 tour:Use the code “storm26” to snatch a free ticket here for any 2026 Snowvana show.Check out the list of free and discounted lift tickets available onsite at each show. Why I interviewed himIf we trust the metonymic origin story of our surnames, then Doug Fish is a descendant of “a catcher or seller of fish,” probably sometime before the invention of the printing press. I cannot think of anything that I understand less than fishing. Specifically, how a person can be good at it. My experience with fishing is that you cast a line in the water and nothing happens while you get drunk. But my buddy's brother could go out on Sanford Lake in a rowboat and return an hour later surrounded by like 50 fish. Every damn time. And I was always just astonished like whatever inherent traits you need to be good at fishing that dude has them.I don't know if Doug Fish is good at fishing, or if he even likes it. I do know that he's good at skiing, and that he likes it. And whatever fishing ability he may or may not have inherited from Alabaster Fish of the 12th Century, he certainly possesses some of the traits of great fishermen: patience, instinct, and the ability to do hard things that no one else can figure out.Organizing and launching the Indy Pass is probably one of the great achievements of modern skiing, in that it proved that any ski area - and therefore nearly any skier - could join the multimountain pass club. While Indy wasn't a novel or new concept, Fish was able to achieve the heretofore impossible task of organizing far-flung ski areas into a coalition with patience, persistence, and a low-key, no-pressure approach devoid of Big Ski's ego. Once Fish sold Indy Pass, he tried something even harder: replicating the success of his Portland ski show across the country. To me, that sounds even more impossible than fishing, and does not include the benefit of a cooler MGDs on the boat floor. But whatever is inside of Fish that made the Indy Pass work, it's making the recently faded ski show work too. I've attended Snowvana in Portland and Milwaukee, each time as a paid speaker. I'm scheduled to host live conversations with Indy Pass/Entabeni/Black Mountain owner Erik Mogensen (Friday, Nov. 6) and Killington owner Phill Gross and president Mike Solimano (Saturday, Nov. 7), at this year's New England show. I don't endorse Snowvana over any competing shows, but I do think ski shows in general offer a fun atmosphere, and a cool way to participate in skiing when you can't actually go skiing.BackgroundFish has appeared on The Storm Skiing Podcast four times, each time solely as a representative of the Indy Pass:TranscriptsThere are two transcripts. Both are generated by robots. Both are helpful and defective in their own unique ways. I do not proofread either of them.Transcript 1: Click the “transcript” button at the top of this article. You can only see this transcript on a computer. Because I don't know why exactly but everything is getting better and dumber all at once it seems. Anyway, this is the transcript that the robots create when I upload the podcast to the internet. The cool thing about it is that you can click on any block of text and the audio will teleport there instantly. The uncool thing about this transcript is that it does not indicate who is talking at any given moment.Transcript 2: You can read this below. This is the transcript that Zoom creates as we record the podcast. The cool thing about this transcript is that it indicates who is talking at any given moment. The uncool thing about this transcript is that the timestamps do not match the audio. Also, you cannot click on this text to move to the associated point in the audio.ZoomStuart Winchester: My guest today is the founder of the Snowvana Winter Kickoff Festival and also founder of the Indie Pass. Now in its 10th year, Snowvana gathers skiers, ski area operators, and retailers in Portland, Oregon.00:16:42.000 --> 00:16:46.000Stuart Winchester: Seattle, New England, and Wisconsin.00:16:46.000 --> 00:17:03.000Stuart Winchester: The Indy Pass, which Fish founded in 2019 and sold in 2023, but is still involved in, delivers skiers two days each at more than 300 ski areas around the world for winter 2026 to 27. He is making his fifth appearance on the Storm Skiing Podcast. He is Doug Fish. Doug, welcome back.00:17:03.000 --> 00:17:06.000Stuart Winchester: How's it been? Been way too long.00:17:06.000 --> 00:17:10.000Doug Fish: It has to. I know. I miss you.00:17:09.000 --> 00:17:21.000Stuart Winchester: I know. Well, it's been way too long on the pod, and I was just talking before this, in my little intro, before you joined, that this is one of the reasons I wanted to do a different format pod, because.00:17:21.000 --> 00:17:24.000Stuart Winchester: I talk or text you all the time.00:17:23.000 --> 00:17:25.000Doug Fish: Yeah, yeah, no worries.00:17:24.000 --> 00:17:39.000Stuart Winchester: And I haven't had you on the pod in 3 years. So, there's no reason for that, because we love hearing from you, and your episodes always do really well. And we will be working together here a little bit on one of these Snovana appearances in a bit. We'll get to that.00:17:39.000 --> 00:17:42.000Stuart Winchester: First, though, I do want to pick up…00:17:39.000 --> 00:17:40.000Doug Fish: Yeah.00:17:42.000 --> 00:17:47.000Stuart Winchester: where we left off in that pod three years ago. You had just sold IndiePass to Eric Mogensen.00:17:45.000 --> 00:17:47.000Doug Fish: Mm-hmm.00:17:47.000 --> 00:17:48.000Doug Fish: Get it.00:17:47.000 --> 00:17:56.000Stuart Winchester: Uh, who has gone on to since, also by Black Mountain, and runs a technology company. He was on the podcast recently, and has been a couple times. Just…00:17:55.000 --> 00:17:56.000Doug Fish: Yep.00:17:57.000 --> 00:18:04.000Stuart Winchester: First of all, tell us how you're still involved, and give as candid of an assessment as you can of.00:18:01.000 --> 00:18:02.000Doug Fish: Mm-hmm.00:18:04.000 --> 00:18:10.000Stuart Winchester: where the Indy Pass is once you… once you let that baby go.00:18:09.000 --> 00:18:11.000Doug Fish: Yeah.00:18:11.000 --> 00:18:22.000Doug Fish: Well, it was a little difficult to let the baby go, but I felt at the time that it would be in good hands, and I'm happy to report that it is in good hands.00:18:14.000 --> 00:18:15.000Stuart Winchester: No.00:18:22.000 --> 00:18:27.000Doug Fish: Um, you know, my country… my employment agreement ran out.00:18:27.000 --> 00:18:29.000Doug Fish: Almost two years ago.00:18:29.000 --> 00:18:35.000Doug Fish: And I'm still involved, you know. Eric and I extended it, and we keep extending it, and…00:18:35.000 --> 00:18:45.000Doug Fish: I believe in in what he's doing. I certainly believe in the past. I think that Eric has done a great job of.00:18:45.000 --> 00:18:50.000Doug Fish: Staying true to the mission and the brand promise of IndyPass.00:18:50.000 --> 00:19:00.000Doug Fish: And, um, you know, as long as that continues, I will… I will be involved in some capacity. I'm kind of the Colonel Sanders of the IndyPass now.00:19:00.000 --> 00:19:08.000Doug Fish: I and you know I get to be a little a bit of an ambassador. I go to some of the trade shows.00:19:08.000 --> 00:19:10.000Doug Fish: I ski with people.00:19:10.000 --> 00:19:14.000Doug Fish: It's… it's a pretty good gig, you know.00:19:13.000 --> 00:19:15.000Stuart Winchester: When you said Colonel Sanders, I mean, are you…00:19:15.000 --> 00:19:19.000Stuart Winchester: What I thought you were doing is still…00:19:19.000 --> 00:19:23.000Stuart Winchester: Recruiting new partners? Is that not the case?00:19:21.000 --> 00:19:37.000Doug Fish: Yeah, I've been. That's what I've been primarily focused on recruiting and maintaining relationships, you know, and and helping grow from a hundred to 300 resorts in the last 3, 3 and a half years, which is pretty incredible growth. And.00:19:24.000 --> 00:19:26.000Stuart Winchester: Yeah, yeah, yeah.00:19:31.000 --> 00:19:33.000Stuart Winchester: Yeah.00:19:37.000 --> 00:19:49.000Doug Fish: you know, I can't take all the credit, but, um, you know, when you can focus on just one thing, you can be a lot more effective, and I've been focused on that.00:19:49.000 --> 00:20:04.000Doug Fish: But Eric has assembled a great team, and I've kind of handed that that part of the the effort off to Nick Niebus and a couple other people on Eric's team that are recruiting new resorts, and, as you can see from the latest release, that's.00:20:04.000 --> 00:20:06.000Doug Fish: Going pretty well.00:20:06.000 --> 00:20:12.000Doug Fish: Um, and I, you know, I think there's some other exciting news in the, in the, uh…00:20:12.000 --> 00:20:21.000Doug Fish: Uh, coming up in the future, I won't spill the beans, but, um, you know, there's always cool things happening there, and I'm just really thankful to be involved.00:20:21.000 --> 00:20:38.000Stuart Winchester: It's been really fascinating to watch the evolution of not just the Indy Pass, but the Pass landscape as a whole. And coincidentally, we started our brands in the same year. Obviously, you've been at this game for a long time, but the Indy Pass launched in 2019, and that's when I came around.00:20:28.000 --> 00:20:30.000Doug Fish: Mmhm.00:20:38.000 --> 00:20:41.000Stuart Winchester: observing the industry.00:20:41.000 --> 00:20:57.000Stuart Winchester: the pass landscape for as long as you've been directly involved in it. And I think the way I always look at this, Doug, is Vail normalized the notion of a multi-mountain pass as an everyday product for the everyday skier, not just a niche product for locals.00:20:57.000 --> 00:20:58.000Doug Fish: Mm-hmm.00:20:57.000 --> 00:21:04.000Stuart Winchester: And then ICON copied that model, and your contribution to it, which I think was…00:21:05.000 --> 00:21:07.000Stuart Winchester: Extremely important was.00:21:07.000 --> 00:21:17.000Stuart Winchester: taking that idea and normalizing the idea of the non-alpha ski area, non-destination ski area, and you do have some of those, you do. But…00:21:16.000 --> 00:21:18.000Doug Fish: Yep.00:21:17.000 --> 00:21:25.000Stuart Winchester: the idea that if you put together Brundage and Mission Ridge and Silver Mountain and White Pass.00:21:23.000 --> 00:21:25.000Doug Fish: Okay.00:21:25.000 --> 00:21:40.000Stuart Winchester: That would be an attractive pass together, right? Because those ski areas, they're, they're good, they're big ski areas, they have lots of snow, but they're not destination ski areas, they're not things people would have thought to fly to, but you had this insight, okay, but if I put them all together, that's pretty cool.00:21:26.000 --> 00:21:29.000Doug Fish: Yeah.00:21:40.000 --> 00:21:44.000Stuart Winchester: And so I'll give you some numbers and I'll let you react to this.00:21:44.000 --> 00:21:52.000Stuart Winchester: So, the first season of IndiePass, you launched with, you know, your first list of 10, and maybe you had 50 by the end of the year. Right now.00:21:52.000 --> 00:22:04.000Stuart Winchester: if you look at, uh, Epic, Icon, Indy, Mountain Collective, and the new Snow Pass from Snow Partners, there are 451 ski areas around the world.00:22:04.000 --> 00:22:11.000Stuart Winchester: Uh, between those 5 passes. A little bit of overlap between a few of them. 267 in the United States.00:22:10.000 --> 00:22:11.000Doug Fish: Yeah, thank you.00:22:11.000 --> 00:22:13.000Stuart Winchester: 55 in Canada, 61 in Europe.00:22:13.000 --> 00:22:17.000Stuart Winchester: Uh, and 53 in Japan.00:22:17.000 --> 00:22:19.000Stuart Winchester: I mean, as you…00:22:20.000 --> 00:22:25.000Stuart Winchester: As you kind of reflect on how this landscape has changed.00:22:25.000 --> 00:22:33.000Stuart Winchester: I've asked this before, but I'll ask again, does this surprise you? I mean, how well this worked and how much it caught on?00:22:33.000 --> 00:22:37.000Doug Fish: No, it doesn't surprise me at all.00:22:37.000 --> 00:22:39.000Doug Fish: It's basic economics.00:22:39.000 --> 00:22:44.000Doug Fish: You know, lift tickets were getting super expensive, and.00:22:45.000 --> 00:23:05.000Doug Fish: a lot of people are getting priced out of the sport, and I mean, even if you want to ski at Vail resorts or Altara resorts. You know you you really have to get a pass if you want to ski more than a few days, and so it doesn't surprise me at all. It's just a it's a good deal. Any pass is the best deal of all.00:22:48.000 --> 00:22:49.000Stuart Winchester: Mmhm.00:23:05.000 --> 00:23:06.000Stuart Winchester: Mmhm.00:23:05.000 --> 00:23:19.000Doug Fish: You know, whether you use it as a regional pass, you know, you go 4 or 5 days in New England, or you take it and you hit the road and hit 25 resorts. It's the best deal in skiing, and it always has been.00:23:19.000 --> 00:23:24.000Doug Fish: So, you know, people respond to deals. That's…00:23:24.000 --> 00:23:28.000Doug Fish: That's, uh, you know, the most of… most, uh…00:23:28.000 --> 00:23:39.000Doug Fish: effective word in advertising is free and cheap comes a second, I think. So it doesn't surprise me a bit.00:23:32.000 --> 00:23:34.000Stuart Winchester: Mmhm.00:23:39.000 --> 00:23:44.000Stuart Winchester: So we're starting to see a little bit of churn, and we've seen this since the days of the Max Pass.00:23:44.000 --> 00:23:45.000Doug Fish: Okay.00:23:44.000 --> 00:23:59.000Stuart Winchester: Uh, and, you know, the Epic Pass and Mountain Collective sort of trading partners around. We've seen less of it, maybe, than I expected at the top end of Epic and Icon. We're starting to see a little in Indy. You've had some partners leave, you've had some partners who have gone to different passes.00:23:48.000 --> 00:23:50.000Doug Fish: Yeah. Okay.00:23:51.000 --> 00:23:53.000Doug Fish: Yeah, exactly.00:23:58.000 --> 00:24:00.000Doug Fish: Mm-hmm.00:23:59.000 --> 00:24:05.000Stuart Winchester: What do you… so, the reality is it's a good idea, and people copied it, and that's a free market, and that's how compet.00:24:04.000 --> 00:24:06.000Doug Fish: Yes.00:24:05.000 --> 00:24:09.000Stuart Winchester: My question for you is, what do you think?00:24:09.000 --> 00:24:20.000Stuart Winchester: IndyPass has to do to make sure that it stays relevant, that the coalition stays together, that it stays an attractive.00:24:17.000 --> 00:24:18.000Doug Fish: Mmhm.00:24:20.000 --> 00:24:26.000Stuart Winchester: product for both skiers and ski area operators as Eric takes it into the future.00:24:26.000 --> 00:24:27.000Doug Fish: Yes.00:24:28.000 --> 00:24:32.000Doug Fish: Well, two things. I think that any of us, Lauren.00:24:34.000 --> 00:24:37.000Stuart Winchester: I'm sorry, can you repeat that?00:24:37.000 --> 00:24:41.000Doug Fish: I apologize, too. I got a derm.00:24:39.000 --> 00:24:40.000Stuart Winchester: All good.00:24:41.000 --> 00:24:43.000Doug Fish: Um…00:24:43.000 --> 00:24:51.000Doug Fish: In order for Dandy Pass to remain relevant, they need to continue to be an affordable option for consumers.00:24:51.000 --> 00:24:56.000Doug Fish: and continue to deliver value for the resorts.00:24:56.000 --> 00:25:07.000Doug Fish: And value in, you know, the quality of the visitors, the guests, the amount of check they write, and the amount that they pay for each visit.00:25:07.000 --> 00:25:11.000Doug Fish: And if they can continue to do that, then they will…00:25:11.000 --> 00:25:14.000Doug Fish: They will outlive you and I both.00:25:13.000 --> 00:25:14.000Stuart Winchester: Mmhm.00:25:14.000 --> 00:25:28.000Doug Fish: Um, and, you know, yes, we have over 300 resorts now, you're bound to lose a few now and then. And, you know, we took a hit this year, a few people left, that was unfortunate, but we added…00:25:16.000 --> 00:25:17.000Stuart Winchester: Thank you.00:25:21.000 --> 00:25:23.000Stuart Winchester: Mmhm.00:25:28.000 --> 00:25:38.000Doug Fish: quite a few more. So, you know, it's going great. I'm proud of what they're doing over there, and I'm proud to be associated with it still.00:25:29.000 --> 00:25:30.000Stuart Winchester: Mmhm.00:25:38.000 --> 00:25:54.000Stuart Winchester: So you're playing… I mean, your name comes up all the time, as you said, from listening to the first few podcasts of this shorter version that I'm doing now, or trying to make them short, is… wow, everyone has a lot of opinions about Doug Fish, but so does Doug Fish.00:25:49.000 --> 00:25:50.000Doug Fish: Yep.00:25:54.000 --> 00:26:03.000Stuart Winchester: So, so you're clearly still living large in the minds of, of everyone who's involved in the IndiePass or works with it, but you're…00:26:03.000 --> 00:26:18.000Stuart Winchester: Main focus, I think, now, is on Snowvana, which… I copied this language, I don't want people to think I'm being corny, when I say it's a winter kickoff festival. I copied that from your press release, because I didn't really know what… like, I want to call it a ski show.00:26:16.000 --> 00:26:17.000Doug Fish: Yeah.00:26:18.000 --> 00:26:25.000Stuart Winchester: but you seem to not want to call it a ski show. So, what is… what is Snovana, and…00:26:21.000 --> 00:26:24.000Doug Fish: Well, that's a ski show.00:26:25.000 --> 00:26:28.000Stuart Winchester: And what are you trying to accomplish with it?00:26:25.000 --> 00:26:26.000Doug Fish: Good, good.00:26:28.000 --> 00:26:43.000Doug Fish: It's all those things. It's a enhanced ski swap. You know, you can call it anything you want, but, um, we started Savannah in 2016, so this is our 10th anniversary, and, um.00:26:29.000 --> 00:26:30.000Stuart Winchester: Okay.00:26:33.000 --> 00:26:34.000Stuart Winchester: Mmhm.00:26:43.000 --> 00:26:54.000Doug Fish: You know, Snowvana is a place for everyone to gather at the beginning of the season, you know, and we certainly didn't invent that. I think Warren Miller did.00:26:53.000 --> 00:26:55.000Stuart Winchester: Mmhm.00:26:54.000 --> 00:27:10.000Doug Fish: originally, and I remember as a kid going to Warren Miller films, and I was just in awe of of all that, and it was a just, you know, getting stoked for the coming season. It was just an annual pilgrimage.00:27:10.000 --> 00:27:14.000Doug Fish: And, um, you know, over the years there's been, um.00:27:14.000 --> 00:27:31.000Doug Fish: you know, hundreds of ski shows, 50 ski shows across the country, big shows. And you know we we I have always been involved in events. I was in the concert business for almost 20 years, and my.00:27:31.000 --> 00:27:34.000Doug Fish: At the beginning of my career.00:27:34.000 --> 00:27:46.000Doug Fish: And, uh, I just, you know, when I was a kid and was in high school, we used to, you know, put on keggers and sell cups for a buck. So, you know, events are in my blood, and I love it, and…00:27:41.000 --> 00:27:42.000Stuart Winchester: Okay.00:27:44.000 --> 00:27:45.000Stuart Winchester: Right.00:27:46.000 --> 00:28:01.000Doug Fish: you know, when I sold the IndyPass, I sold my marketing agency, but I kept Snowvana, because, you know, I thought it'd be fun to keep it going, and… and uh… the young man who…00:28:01.000 --> 00:28:06.000Doug Fish: helped me, um, helped me, um.00:28:07.000 --> 00:28:10.000Doug Fish: Grow the Indy Pass.00:28:10.000 --> 00:28:14.000Doug Fish: Didn't want to go with Indy Pass. He didn't want to move to Colorado.00:28:14.000 --> 00:28:19.000Doug Fish: So I said, well, why don't you come and run Snowball? And we'll keep that going.00:28:19.000 --> 00:28:26.000Doug Fish: And it was actually his idea to, um, to expand it. He said, you know, I think this is a model that we can scale.00:28:26.000 --> 00:28:38.000Doug Fish: And, um, you know, I looked at him, I said, okay, you do all the work, and I'll help with the marketing, and I'll finance the operation, and, you know, here we are.00:28:38.000 --> 00:28:39.000Doug Fish: That was, uh.00:28:38.000 --> 00:28:44.000Stuart Winchester: Alright, so you're doing… you started this 10 years ago, and you're taking it around the country.00:28:44.000 --> 00:28:50.000Stuart Winchester: But you said ski shows have been around forever, right? So, you said there's been 50, 100 ski shows.00:28:47.000 --> 00:28:49.000Doug Fish: Yeah.00:28:50.000 --> 00:28:52.000Stuart Winchester: How is…00:28:52.000 --> 00:28:57.000Stuart Winchester: What happened to all those shows? Aren't they still there? Are you still competing with them?00:28:57.000 --> 00:29:03.000Stuart Winchester: And if so, it doesn't seem like a… like a market that's super ripe for disruption, right? Like, once you…00:28:58.000 --> 00:28:59.000Doug Fish: Here.00:29:03.000 --> 00:29:04.000Doug Fish: Yeah.00:29:03.000 --> 00:29:16.000Stuart Winchester: have a ski show, you kind of own the market, it would seem like. So, I guess rewind for us a little bit, maybe I should have started there. What have ski shows traditionally been in America, and.00:29:07.000 --> 00:29:09.000Doug Fish: Mm-hmm.00:29:16.000 --> 00:29:19.000Stuart Winchester: What's happened to them over time?00:29:19.000 --> 00:29:31.000Doug Fish: Well, ski shows have been, you know, what's Nirvana? It was kind of a kickoff festival, a gear sale, and I think they kind of collapsed under their own weight.00:29:30.000 --> 00:29:32.000Stuart Winchester: Mmhm.00:29:32.000 --> 00:29:40.000Doug Fish: You know, the Windy City Ski Show had a 40-year run. The Boston Ski and Snowboard Expo had a 60-year run.00:29:40.000 --> 00:29:49.000Doug Fish: uh, the Denver show. There's been ski shows in all the major northern markets, even in, you know, Dallas had a big show for many, many years, Atlanta.00:29:49.000 --> 00:30:03.000Doug Fish: And, um, but the cost of putting on these shows, these big shows, 100,000 square foot shows, is just too much. And, uh, at the same time, as these big shows started to go away.00:30:03.000 --> 00:30:18.000Doug Fish: ski swaps proliferated, you know, in every gymnasium and, you know, high school cafeteria across the country. You know, small ski resorts have a ski swap and a kickoff, you know, festival in the fall.00:30:18.000 --> 00:30:22.000Doug Fish: All over the country, there must be hundreds of ski swaps.00:30:22.000 --> 00:30:39.000Doug Fish: And so we looked at that and said, well, you know, ski swaps are great, but you can't get out of there fast enough. You know, when there you rifle through all the stuff and maybe you find a gym and you get a good deal, but, you know, there's no reason to stick around.00:30:39.000 --> 00:30:55.000Doug Fish: And what we try to do is create a festival atmosphere. We still have the ski swap. We have a consignment swap, which is a fundraiser for a local nonprofit. And then we have a huge gear sale and we work with local retailers.00:30:56.000 --> 00:31:04.000Doug Fish: So, you know, there's a lot to choose from, but there's lots of really good deals. And, um, but there's…00:31:04.000 --> 00:31:16.000Doug Fish: you know, there's fun stuff to do, too. We have films, we have live music, we have a bar. Um, you know, we do stupid stuff like, uh, frozen t-shirt contests and barefoot skis.00:31:14.000 --> 00:31:15.000Stuart Winchester: Yeah.00:31:16.000 --> 00:31:19.000Doug Fish: Um, so…00:31:19.000 --> 00:31:25.000Doug Fish: Yeah, there's just, you know, there's a lot of fun activities happening.00:31:29.000 --> 00:31:31.000Doug Fish: And, um…00:31:33.000 --> 00:31:38.000Stuart Winchester: So, so, so that's, that's all right, that's all right. So.00:31:33.000 --> 00:31:37.000Doug Fish: Sorry, I got interrupted too.00:31:38.000 --> 00:31:42.000Stuart Winchester: Is there a… is there an inflection point when the ski…00:31:42.000 --> 00:31:54.000Stuart Winchester: show stopped working. I want to point to COVID in 2020 that probably killed a lot of them for a year and then forever, but that's probably too simple of an explanation.00:31:49.000 --> 00:31:50.000Doug Fish: Yep.00:31:53.000 --> 00:32:00.000Doug Fish: Yeah, COVID I think was, you know, put a fork in a lot of the big shows.00:32:00.000 --> 00:32:08.000Doug Fish: Um, you know, a lot of promoters decided not to… not to come back. Um, but, you know, I think that the…00:32:05.000 --> 00:32:06.000Stuart Winchester: Mmhm.00:32:08.000 --> 00:32:15.000Doug Fish: It's very tough. These municipal convention centers are just extremely expensive.00:32:15.000 --> 00:32:27.000Doug Fish: and I think you know that's that was part of it. And you know, online sales. And you know all the all the things that kill retail right? Because these are retail events.00:32:25.000 --> 00:32:26.000Stuart Winchester: Mmhm.00:32:27.000 --> 00:32:37.000Doug Fish: And so, you know, we kind of, we took a year off for COVID too. In 2020, nobody was doing events.00:32:34.000 --> 00:32:35.000Stuart Winchester: Yeah.00:32:37.000 --> 00:32:42.000Doug Fish: Well, we came back in 2021 and it was our best show. We were the first.00:32:42.000 --> 00:32:54.000Doug Fish: show to come back and give it a go in 21 at the Oregon Convention Center. And the place was packed, and it was because people were just starving for.00:32:54.000 --> 00:33:11.000Doug Fish: you know, human connection. You know, they've been cooped up in their house for a year, and they came out in droves. And, you know, this is what, you know, these shows give us, is that human connection.00:32:55.000 --> 00:32:56.000Stuart Winchester: Something.00:32:56.000 --> 00:32:58.000Stuart Winchester: Yeah. Okay.00:33:11.000 --> 00:33:21.000Doug Fish: You know you can buy skis online. You can buy anything online. But you know the the community comes together and and.00:33:21.000 --> 00:33:28.000Doug Fish: It's, you know, we call it AI for the ski business, authentic interaction.00:33:28.000 --> 00:33:33.000Doug Fish: You know, we need more of that, not less of it. And it's…00:33:30.000 --> 00:33:31.000Stuart Winchester: Mmhm.00:33:33.000 --> 00:33:36.000Doug Fish: It's just a it's a cool thing.00:33:36.000 --> 00:33:51.000Stuart Winchester: So how are you getting around the cost piece, though? I mean, if you want to — they left Chicago because of cost. It seems like that's because Chicago costs a lot. So you're going into Boston this year, and we'll talk about that in a minute. That's not a cheap market.00:33:40.000 --> 00:33:42.000Doug Fish: Yeah.00:33:45.000 --> 00:33:47.000Doug Fish: Yeah.00:33:50.000 --> 00:34:00.000Doug Fish: No, well, we're going into the suburbs. We're hitting the suburbs now, you know, we're in West Seattle, in a suburb of Seattle.00:33:53.000 --> 00:33:55.000Stuart Winchester: Okay.00:33:56.000 --> 00:33:58.000Stuart Winchester: Mmhm.00:34:00.000 --> 00:34:01.000Stuart Winchester: Okay.00:34:00.000 --> 00:34:11.000Doug Fish: Uh, we're in a suburb of Milwaukee and Franklin, Wisconsin, and we're in a suburb of Boston, out in Marlboro. It's about 40 minutes west of town.00:34:11.000 --> 00:34:19.000Doug Fish: And they call it, uh, West Metro. And, um, you know, these venues are smaller.00:34:14.000 --> 00:34:16.000Stuart Winchester: Mmhm.00:34:19.000 --> 00:34:22.000Doug Fish: They're about 50,000 square feet versus 100.00:34:22.000 --> 00:34:23.000Stuart Winchester: Mmhm.00:34:22.000 --> 00:34:37.000Doug Fish: and they're way less expensive. We don't have to deal with union. You know the cost of a union labor, and you know nothing against unions. But.00:34:37.000 --> 00:34:52.000Doug Fish: they can drive the cost up. And and you know, General Motors and Ford, you know, they can do an auto show there. No problem. They've they've got deep pockets. We can't. And I think that's why some of these big shows, you know, finally threw in the towel.00:34:44.000 --> 00:34:46.000Stuart Winchester: Right.00:34:52.000 --> 00:34:59.000Doug Fish: And, you know, the venues we're in, they're not as fancy. We're in a World War II airplane hangar in Seattle.00:34:58.000 --> 00:34:59.000Stuart Winchester: Right.00:34:59.000 --> 00:35:14.000Doug Fish: you know, at a in a in a park in West Seattle. It's a really cool building. But believe me, you know, it's it's it's not fancy. And so that's the that's the difference. And and.00:35:09.000 --> 00:35:10.000Stuart Winchester: Yeah, thank you.00:35:14.000 --> 00:35:25.000Doug Fish: we're able to charge 5 bucks in advance. Kids are free. The booth cost is reasonable for for vendors, and.00:35:25.000 --> 00:35:27.000Doug Fish: You know, it works.00:35:27.000 --> 00:35:38.000Stuart Winchester: Yeah, so you… the timeline's interesting for those who are following along. So you started Snovana in 2016, launched Indie in 2019. I'm curious…00:35:38.000 --> 00:35:44.000Stuart Winchester: how one may have fueled the other. In other words, and I know you've been in skiing and in the ski industry for decades, but…00:35:44.000 --> 00:35:46.000Stuart Winchester: Once you…00:35:46.000 --> 00:35:58.000Stuart Winchester: established IndiePass, and you made all these connections all over the country, I have to imagine that greased the wheels a little bit for Snowvana, because a big part of this, and we'll talk about this in a minute, is.00:35:58.000 --> 00:36:07.000Stuart Winchester: when you go there, most of the regional ski areas have booths set up. And not just the Independents, it's Vail and Altera, I've been at a bunch of the ones that I've been to.00:36:02.000 --> 00:36:04.000Doug Fish: Yeah.00:36:06.000 --> 00:36:08.000Doug Fish: Mm-hmm.00:36:07.000 --> 00:36:12.000Stuart Winchester: In their mountains, in the bigger mountains, all over the place, so… so…00:36:12.000 --> 00:36:15.000Stuart Winchester: Do you think, I guess…00:36:15.000 --> 00:36:24.000Stuart Winchester: I guess the question is, how did IndiePass fuel the growth of Snowvana, or do you think that this would be taking off the way it is either way?00:36:24.000 --> 00:36:33.000Doug Fish: Oh, I think Snowvana and the work we were doing at the agency with a number of ski resorts all led to the.00:36:33.000 --> 00:36:36.000Doug Fish: the idea behind the Indy Pass.00:36:35.000 --> 00:36:37.000Stuart Winchester: Mmhm.00:36:36.000 --> 00:36:42.000Doug Fish: And certainly the IndyPass connections that I've made have helped us expand.00:36:42.000 --> 00:36:52.000Doug Fish: Snowball on it. There's no question. You know, we just we're moving into the Boston market this year for the 1st time, and we have 37 resorts signed up.00:36:52.000 --> 00:36:59.000Doug Fish: That's pretty good for a first-year show. We have 70 resorts across the country. I think it's closer to 80 now.00:36:59.000 --> 00:37:00.000Stuart Winchester: Mmhm.00:36:59.000 --> 00:37:08.000Doug Fish: And, you know, it's the only place where you're gonna see, uh, Epic Pass, Icon Pass, and Indy Pass all in the same room.00:37:07.000 --> 00:37:09.000Stuart Winchester: Right.00:37:08.000 --> 00:37:16.000Doug Fish: And, um, you know, that's the way it should be. You know, we want to be Switzerland and invite everyone in, because that's what the consumer wants.00:37:15.000 --> 00:37:17.000Stuart Winchester: Mmhm.00:37:16.000 --> 00:37:27.000Doug Fish: you know, people want to want to interact with all those companies. And and so yeah, indie pass. There's no question it. It helped us.00:37:27.000 --> 00:37:29.000Doug Fish: You know.00:37:29.000 --> 00:37:31.000Doug Fish: break into new markets.00:37:31.000 --> 00:37:46.000Stuart Winchester: So if you look at the four markets you're in this year and, you know, Portland is the logical one, that's your home base and has been for a long time. Then you have Seattle, you have Milwaukee in the Midwest, and you have, you know, we'll call it Boston or New England or whatever you want to. It's in Mass.00:37:38.000 --> 00:37:40.000Doug Fish: Mm-hmm.00:37:46.000 --> 00:37:47.000Doug Fish: Yep.00:37:46.000 --> 00:37:55.000Stuart Winchester: Right? So, one thing I always appreciated about the Indy Pass is that you didn't just make it a Western Pass, you went into the Midwest right away.00:37:55.000 --> 00:37:56.000Doug Fish: Mmhm.00:37:55.000 --> 00:38:13.000Stuart Winchester: You went into New England right away. So talk about each of those four markets and, and why it makes sense to do ski shows there because for, for example, in the Midwest, you could have, you could have gone to Detroit, you could have gone to Grand Rapids, you could have gone to Chicago, you could have gone to Indianapolis.00:38:04.000 --> 00:38:06.000Doug Fish: Mm-hmm.00:38:13.000 --> 00:38:23.000Stuart Winchester: chose Milwaukee, which is, you know, everyone's heard of Milwaukee, but it's not necessarily, like, the capital of Midwest, like Chicago is. So just talk us through those markets and your…00:38:13.000 --> 00:38:14.000Doug Fish: Mm-hmm.00:38:23.000 --> 00:38:29.000Stuart Winchester: Slow expansion across the country, and you're kind of thinking behind where you're choosing to do this.00:38:29.000 --> 00:38:40.000Doug Fish: Yeah, good question. Um, so Seattle was a no-brainer. You know, we knew that we were drawing people out of Seattle for the Portland show. It's three, three and a half hours to Seattle.00:38:40.000 --> 00:38:48.000Doug Fish: And we were drawing a pretty good crowd, so… uh, there hasn't been a show in Seattle for a decade. It's a great ski market, you know, they have…00:38:48.000 --> 00:38:55.000Doug Fish: 3 phenomenal resorts within an hour of downtown Seattle, Stevens, Crystal.00:38:55.000 --> 00:39:11.000Doug Fish: Summit. That's no qualming help at all. So you know, we found a venue up there that was affordable, you know, an old airplane hangar. And you know, we put a show up there, and it did well. And so we thought, Okay.00:39:09.000 --> 00:39:10.000Stuart Winchester: Yep.00:39:11.000 --> 00:39:18.000Doug Fish: Uh, we didn't really want to go to California, uh, so we started looking east because.00:39:17.000 --> 00:39:21.000Stuart Winchester: You, you didn't wanna go to California, why not? I mean, that's a huge market.00:39:19.000 --> 00:39:30.000Doug Fish: Um, yeah, it is a huge market, and, you know, maybe we'll go to the Bay Area. There's a big show down in LA called Ski Dazzle that's still going, a big show.00:39:29.000 --> 00:39:31.000Stuart Winchester: Okay.00:39:30.000 --> 00:39:32.000Doug Fish: And, um…00:39:32.000 --> 00:39:44.000Doug Fish: Uh, but to my knowledge, nothing significant in Northern California, so we may go there someday. But, um, you know, where we… where we went, it's really…00:39:44.000 --> 00:39:52.000Doug Fish: you know, I knew that the Indy Pass was going to be successful back east because there's so many resorts, and more importantly, so many people.00:39:52.000 --> 00:39:53.000Stuart Winchester: Yeah.00:39:52.000 --> 00:39:55.000Doug Fish: And, and so.00:39:55.000 --> 00:40:03.000Doug Fish: We started looking to the east and Milwaukee, you may think, well, that's kind of a weird place.00:40:03.000 --> 00:40:23.000Doug Fish: Wisconsin's the number four ski state in the country in terms of number of ski resorts. And Michigan is number three. So, you know, or maybe it's number two, but yeah. So, you know, there's a lot of passion in the Midwest. And I knew that from working with the resorts out there.00:40:06.000 --> 00:40:07.000Stuart Winchester: Yeah, okay.00:40:14.000 --> 00:40:15.000Stuart Winchester: It's 2.00:40:23.000 --> 00:40:35.000Doug Fish: you know, Rick Schmitz has been a great ally and supporter of mine, and you know we've been friends for many, many years, and he said, Hey.00:40:35.000 --> 00:40:39.000Doug Fish: Uh, come and do a show in Milwaukee, and I'll help you promote it, and…00:40:39.000 --> 00:40:54.000Doug Fish: you know, there just happens to be a big sports complex right there at the base of Crystal Ridge, which he owns. And, um, you know, they had space that would work for a show, so we popped a show in there, and it worked.00:40:55.000 --> 00:41:10.000Doug Fish: Um, and then we were all set to go into Chicago next, you know, kind of an eastward progression, uh, either Chicago or Detroit, and, um, I got a call.00:41:10.000 --> 00:41:17.000Doug Fish: from a friend of mine in New England. They said, Hey, Snowbound is leaving Boston.00:41:17.000 --> 00:41:20.000Doug Fish: You guys should come out here and do a show.00:41:20.000 --> 00:41:38.000Doug Fish: And I thought, oh my gosh, that's the best ski show market in the country, you know, it's been going for 65 years. And so Quinn McIntyre and I jumped on a plane in early December, when there was absolutely no snow, by the way, in the West.00:41:38.000 --> 00:41:58.000Doug Fish: And so we, of course, took our gear, and we spent a week in New England skiing some phenomenal powder at Loon, and Jay Peak, and Bretton Woods, and Black Mountain, and, you know. But we also, you know, met with a few venues back there, and found one that made sense out in Marlboro.00:41:43.000 --> 00:41:45.000Stuart Winchester: Yeah, okay.00:41:49.000 --> 00:41:51.000Stuart Winchester: Yeah.00:41:58.000 --> 00:42:09.000Doug Fish: Uh, a nice suburb of… of Boston, and… and made the decision right then, okay, we're gonna do this. We signed a 3-year lease, or 3-year contract for… for the space.00:42:09.000 --> 00:42:14.000Doug Fish: And here we are. We're in Boston.00:42:13.000 --> 00:42:19.000Stuart Winchester: So, so to, so to clarify for listeners, Snowbound still exists. It moved to the Mohegan Sun.00:42:19.000 --> 00:42:23.000Stuart Winchester: Casino in Connecticut. So that show, indeed, will still go on.00:42:21.000 --> 00:42:29.000Doug Fish: Yes. Yeah, they didn't go away, they just moved… they just changed locations, and… and they're a couple hours from Boston now, so…00:42:29.000 --> 00:42:31.000Stuart Winchester: Yeah, so, so…00:42:29.000 --> 00:42:31.000Doug Fish: Thank you.00:42:31.000 --> 00:42:32.000Doug Fish: Go ahead.00:42:31.000 --> 00:42:48.000Stuart Winchester: So each of these shows you go to and, you know, the gear is great and I'm sure that's why a lot of people go. I'm obviously super into the ski area, so when I go and I look at the deals tab on Snovana.com, the first thing I see at the top of each.00:42:48.000 --> 00:43:05.000Stuart Winchester: list of ski areas that will be there, and their deals are free lift tickets for Willamette Pass, when you're out in the Western shows, uh, I believe in the Midwest, you get one free at Little Switz, or Nordic, or Crystal Ridge, then out East, it's Black Mountain Maine, and there's some others as well, I'm just…00:42:52.000 --> 00:42:53.000Doug Fish: Yeah.00:43:01.000 --> 00:43:02.000Doug Fish: Yep.00:43:02.000 --> 00:43:04.000Doug Fish: Okay.00:43:05.000 --> 00:43:08.000Stuart Winchester: Highlighting some. So, talk a little bit about…00:43:06.000 --> 00:43:07.000Doug Fish: Mm-hmm.00:43:08.000 --> 00:43:25.000Stuart Winchester: that, because, I mean, you pay $5 to get in, and this is… it's funny, because it's kind of a throwback to the pre-pass era, when you kind of have to collect your own pass, and find all these coupons, and, you know, Warren Miller would have, like, a free ticket to Sugarbush or whatever, so… so just talk a little bit about that, and what.00:43:17.000 --> 00:43:20.000Doug Fish: Yeah, right.00:43:20.000 --> 00:43:21.000Doug Fish: Yes.00:43:22.000 --> 00:43:23.000Doug Fish: Yeah.00:43:25.000 --> 00:43:29.000Stuart Winchester: attendees can expect to find their deals wise.00:43:28.000 --> 00:43:36.000Doug Fish: Oh, yeah. Well, that's what motivates people is deals. We say the deals are great and the stoke is free.00:43:35.000 --> 00:43:36.000Stuart Winchester: Mmhm.00:43:36.000 --> 00:43:39.000Doug Fish: And yeah, I, you know.00:43:39.000 --> 00:43:45.000Doug Fish: Can't help but mention in Boston, we have Black Mountain of Maine.00:43:45.000 --> 00:43:47.000Doug Fish: Neshoba.00:43:47.000 --> 00:44:03.000Doug Fish: and Mcintyre, all giving away free lift tickets for your with your admission. And yeah, so 5 bucks, or for 5 bucks you probably get. I don't know. That's 200 bucks worth of lift tickets, and that that's before you know all the other swag that people are giving away.00:43:48.000 --> 00:43:50.000Stuart Winchester: Okay.00:43:50.000 --> 00:43:52.000Stuart Winchester: Yeah.00:43:58.000 --> 00:44:00.000Stuart Winchester: Mm-hmm, sure.00:44:02.000 --> 00:44:03.000Stuart Winchester: Right.00:44:03.000 --> 00:44:14.000Doug Fish: So, yeah, I mean, it takes a lot to get people off the couch to come down and park and, you know, go to an event. And, excuse me.00:44:14.000 --> 00:44:19.000Doug Fish: So we try and pack as much value into the ticket as we can. Um…00:44:19.000 --> 00:44:39.000Doug Fish: And all the resorts are there with deals. There'll be 37 resorts in Boston and 70 across the country. They're all offering deals of some kind, whether they're selling a season pass for a discount or a three pack or a daily lift ticket.00:44:29.000 --> 00:44:30.000Stuart Winchester: Mmhm.00:44:39.000 --> 00:44:43.000Doug Fish: And that's what people want.00:44:43.000 --> 00:44:44.000Stuart Winchester: 8. Yep.00:44:43.000 --> 00:44:52.000Doug Fish: And, you know, those are just the lift tickets. The gear is… the deals on the gear is what really brings people in.00:44:52.000 --> 00:45:06.000Doug Fish: And, um, you know, we can… I can confidently say that we've got some of the best selection of new and slightly used gear for 40% to 80% off.00:45:05.000 --> 00:45:07.000Stuart Winchester: Mm-hmm.00:45:06.000 --> 00:45:14.000Doug Fish: And, you know, we spend all summer collecting it from manufacturers, from reps, from, you know, demo fleets.00:45:15.000 --> 00:45:30.000Doug Fish: And the retailers that we work with in each market, they also, you know, they bring last year's stuff that didn't sell. They bring maybe their lease fleet that, you know, they're retiring. And there's just some incredible deals, and…00:45:30.000 --> 00:45:36.000Doug Fish: You know, people will walk out saving hundreds of thousands of dollars.00:45:36.000 --> 00:45:40.000Doug Fish: If they can spend the time, you know, looking around.00:45:40.000 --> 00:45:54.000Stuart Winchester: Yeah, so, so, lip ticket deals, gear deals, another thing you'll find there, uh, at least at the Boston show, is me and I will be doing live interviews on Friday with Eric Mogenson, the owner of IndiePass and IntoBenny. Then on Saturday…00:45:50.000 --> 00:45:51.000Doug Fish: Yes.00:45:54.000 --> 00:46:13.000Stuart Winchester: I will be hosting live on stage at Snovana Boston, or Suburban Boston, or New England, or whatever you want to call it. The owner of Killington, Phil Gross, and also the president, Mike Solomano, who I've had on my podcast before, but this will be our first live event. This is the third time I've done this sort of event.00:46:04.000 --> 00:46:05.000Doug Fish: Uh-huh.00:46:13.000 --> 00:46:20.000Stuart Winchester: For Snowvana, I did one last year with Lonnie Gleiberman of Mount Bohemia at the Milwaukee show, and I did one.00:46:20.000 --> 00:46:29.000Stuart Winchester: I think maybe it was the year… two years before that, in Portland, with a panel of general managers. It's been a lot of fun, and… and, you know, that's a…00:46:24.000 --> 00:46:25.000Doug Fish: Yeah.00:46:30.000 --> 00:46:46.000Stuart Winchester: That's a disclosure. I've worked, I guess, for Snowvana because these, you know, I don't do these things for free. It's, it's a, it's a business, you know, it's a, it's a, it's a business deal. And, um, and those things take a lot of work, as you know, but, but that, that's just one example. All right.00:46:37.000 --> 00:46:38.000Doug Fish: No.00:46:46.000 --> 00:46:48.000Stuart Winchester: Talk about just…00:46:48.000 --> 00:46:59.000Stuart Winchester: I guess quickly just run through the dates of the other shows, and the sorts of things that people can expect to be on the stages, or other things I haven't mentioned yet.00:46:58.000 --> 00:47:00.000Doug Fish: Yeah.00:47:00.000 --> 00:47:02.000Doug Fish: Excuse me.00:47:02.000 --> 00:47:08.000Doug Fish: We don't spend a lot of time with speakers. You're kind of the only one, Stu.00:47:07.000 --> 00:47:12.000Stuart Winchester: That's not true. Sean Suttner, my friend, is doing one the next day.00:47:08.000 --> 00:47:12.000Doug Fish: Yeah, the great Sean Sutner.00:47:12.000 --> 00:47:23.000Doug Fish: Yeah, Sean Suttner from the Worcester Gazette and Telegram will be there on Sunday interviewing the ownership team from Wachusett.00:47:16.000 --> 00:47:17.000Stuart Winchester: Mmhm.00:47:19.000 --> 00:47:21.000Stuart Winchester: Crowley's.00:47:22.000 --> 00:47:23.000Stuart Winchester: Yeah.00:47:23.000 --> 00:47:42.000Doug Fish: But yeah, I mean, we have live music. We've got, you know, frozen T-shirt contests this year. We're launching the pray for snow dance contests. And we've got this thing called the Sumo Bowl. It's a inflatable boxing ring and 2 inflatable beer cans. You put these on your body, and.00:47:32.000 --> 00:47:34.000Stuart Winchester: Mmhm.00:47:42.000 --> 00:47:50.000Doug Fish: you try to knock your buddy down, and if you do, you're entered to win a pair of skis. I mean, it's just stupid stuff, but people love it.00:47:48.000 --> 00:47:50.000Stuart Winchester: Right, right.00:47:50.000 --> 00:48:04.000Doug Fish: And so those are happening at all the shows. Great gear sales, lots of resorts, free lift tickets. The great Stu Winchester in Boston this year.00:47:55.000 --> 00:47:56.000Stuart Winchester: Mmhm.00:48:04.000 --> 00:48:15.000Doug Fish: And and then, you know, we've got this thing called the cream of the swap. It is a special section in the gear sale.00:48:05.000 --> 00:48:07.000Stuart Winchester: Don't oversell it.00:48:10.000 --> 00:48:11.000Stuart Winchester: Mmhm.00:48:15.000 --> 00:48:30.000Doug Fish: in the ski swap where we feature a lot of higher end product, mostly, you know, brand new 2627 demo skis. It's all mount. They're all mounted. They've been skied 2 or 3 times.00:48:30.000 --> 00:48:38.000Doug Fish: And there's just some incredible deals there, 40% to 50% off on essentially brand new gear.00:48:37.000 --> 00:48:38.000Stuart Winchester: Mmhm.00:48:38.000 --> 00:48:53.000Doug Fish: And, um, so you'll find those features at all of the shows. Each market, you know, had some slight differences and, you know, based on what's going on locally and how the venue's laid out, but…00:48:53.000 --> 00:49:03.000Doug Fish: You can go to our website and check out what's different in each show if you want, what the different deals are. All the deals are listed.00:49:03.000 --> 00:49:10.000Doug Fish: Uh, that, you know, the resorts are giving away, or the retailers are giving away for, you know, discounting.00:49:10.000 --> 00:49:20.000Stuart Winchester: Yeah, so don't hold me to this, because they could change, so check the website, please, before you go. But right now, I'm scheduled to interview Al… Excuse me.00:49:20.000 --> 00:49:36.000Stuart Winchester: Eric on Friday, November 6th at 5.30pm Eastern, and Phil Gross and Mike Solomano of Killington at 2pm on Saturday, November 7th. Those are in Marlboro, Massachusetts. So the… the only thing that I think we can hold Doug to at this point.00:49:36.000 --> 00:49:44.000Stuart Winchester: is… is the dates. So, Seattle, Washington, October 16th to 18th, at Hangar 30 in Magnuson Park.00:49:44.000 --> 00:49:50.000Stuart Winchester: Uh, the Portland show is October 23rd to 25th at Portland Expo Center, where it's been for several years.00:49:49.000 --> 00:49:51.000Doug Fish: Mmhm.00:49:50.000 --> 00:50:06.000Stuart Winchester: The show that I'll be at will be in Marlboro, Massachusetts, November 6th to 8th at the Royal Plaza Trade Center, and you wrap the season in Franklin, Wisconsin at the Crystal Ridge Ski Area, or the Mosh Performance Center, November 13th through 15th, and again, we won't.00:50:06.000 --> 00:50:13.000Stuart Winchester: resorts and everything else, because I'd imagine you're adding more all the time. You do have a special treat for my listeners, Doug.00:50:13.000 --> 00:50:15.000Doug Fish: Yes, we do.00:50:13.000 --> 00:50:16.000Stuart Winchester: If they want to go to any of those, right?00:50:15.000 --> 00:50:22.000Doug Fish: Yeah. Thank you, Stu, for having me on, and thank you to your listeners for, you know, listening to this podcast.00:50:22.000 --> 00:50:30.000Doug Fish: Um, if you want to go to Snow Vaughan and check it out, because you're a fan of Stuart Winchester, you can get a free ticket.00:50:30.000 --> 00:50:47.000Doug Fish: And oh, the code. So there's a promo code. Go to our website, snovana.com, and, you know, click on Buy Ticket, and the promo code that'll get you a free ticket is THESTORM26. THESTORM, all lowercase, 26. You should put that up on the screen.00:50:47.000 --> 00:50:49.000Doug Fish: Stu, um…00:50:48.000 --> 00:50:51.000Stuart Winchester: I will have my editor do that.00:50:50.000 --> 00:51:02.000Doug Fish: Okay, good. And, uh, yeah, get a free ticket, come down, get some, you know, some swag, some free lift tickets, and find a deal on a pair of skis, or a snowboard.00:51:01.000 --> 00:51:05.000Stuart Winchester: Okay, any… so that's for this year…00:51:05.000 --> 00:51:09.000Stuart Winchester: You have any sense of where you want to go next?00:51:08.000 --> 00:51:14.000Doug Fish: Oh, yeah. Yeah, we've got Philadelphia booked for 2027 through 2019.00:51:12.000 --> 00:51:13.000Stuart Winchester: Oh, really?00:51:14.000 --> 00:51:33.000Doug Fish: We will be in the King of Prussia suburb of Philly. Quinn McIntyre, my colleague, is from Philadelphia, so he's pretty stoked about that. And so we'll be there, and then, you know, we're looking at some other potential.00:51:24.000 --> 00:51:25.000Stuart Winchester: Okay.00:51:26.000 --> 00:51:27.000Stuart Winchester: Yeah.00:51:33.000 --> 00:51:34.000Doug Fish: expansions.00:51:34.000 --> 00:51:40.000Stuart Winchester: Alright, and do you anticipate these 4 locations returning for 27, or is it too soon to say?00:51:40.000 --> 00:51:55.000Doug Fish: Oh, yeah, we anticipate all of them just, you know, going gangbusters this year, and we'll be back, but, you know, it's like an election. You never know how it's gonna go until election day, and uh…00:51:54.000 --> 00:52:07.000Stuart Winchester: Alright, Doug. Well, look, I appreciate you coming on the show again. I never know where I'm gonna see you next. You mentioned you were in New England last December, and I had gone up there for the Ski New Hampshire media event they hold every December, and…00:51:55.000 --> 00:51:56.000Doug Fish: So…00:52:07.000 --> 00:52:23.000Stuart Winchester: I turned around at one point, and there's Doug Fish and Quinn walk through the door. I was like, the last thing I… the last people I expected to see at the Ski New Hampshire media night, because you guys are usually, uh, locked into the West Coast at that time of year, but… but it was a pleasant surprise, so, uh, next time I see you, hopefully.00:52:10.000 --> 00:52:12.000Doug Fish: Bye.00:52:18.000 --> 00:52:19.000Doug Fish: Yeah. Okay.00:52:23.000 --> 00:52:28.000Doug Fish: Yeah, hopefully it will, Stu, and it's always a pleasure. It's great to be back on the show.00:52:24.000 --> 00:52:26.000Stuart Winchester: Yeah.00:52:30.000 --> 00:52:33.000Stuart Winchester: You too, man. Talk to you soon.00:52:35.000 --> 00:52:40.000Stuart Winchester: Alright, that was Doug Fish, founder of IndiePass and Snovana.00:52:40.000 --> 00:52:56.000Stuart Winchester: Let's do a little quick reader react, listener react, and then we'll get outta here for today. So there you got some reaction to the podcast that I put out on Monday with Pajarito, New Mexico, general manager Jason Bellamy.00:52:56.000 --> 00:53:12.000Stuart Winchester: Gary Luft says, as a New Mexico local, I am pumped about Powerito getting these upgrades. I've been a pass holder at Ski Santa Fe, but this year I'm going with MCP's Power Pass. Thanks to Stuart for giving some attention to our great unknown.00:53:12.000 --> 00:53:25.000Stuart Winchester: to those outside of New Mexico, mountains. You're welcome, Gary. I, uh, love all ski areas, and I'm sorry I have not given more love to New Mexico in the past, though I have done a couple of Taos podcasts. So the Power Pass, for those who.00:53:25.000 --> 00:53:32.000Stuart Winchester: don't know what Gary's talking about is… is Mountain Capital Partners owns about a dozen ski areas, including two down in Chile, and… and…00:53:32.000 --> 00:53:48.000Stuart Winchester: The power pass is, is basically their epic pass, right? It's the unlimited pass at all of their mountains, not unlimited at the Chilean ones, but you can see all the footnotes on their website. Uh, the point is it, it, there's three different versions and the cheapest version, it's 4 49 right now, I believe.00:53:48.000 --> 00:54:05.000Stuart Winchester: gets you unlimited access to Pajaritos, Sapapu, and Sandia Peak in New Mexico, and it gets you quite a bit of access at MCP's other resorts as well. The full unlimited version is unlimited at all of MCP's U.S. mountains, including really, really good ones like Purgatory, Arizona Snow Bowl.00:54:05.000 --> 00:54:18.000Stuart Winchester: I've also got Lee Canyon on there, which is a super gorgeous ski area outside of Las Vegas I talked about the other day. And again, the PowerEater upgrades he's referring to are… PowerEater's just putting in this massive snowmaking system that's…00:54:18.000 --> 00:54:23.000Stuart Winchester: Doubling is a fire suppression system, so it's, uh, it's super… it's a…00:54:23.000 --> 00:54:40.000Stuart Winchester: Partnership with local governments that they're doing this through. So it's, it's a really cool model that hopefully other ski areas around the West can learn from and copy. Jeremiah Kay says, interesting episode. I think wildfire mitigation will be an increasingly important component of helping get snowmaking permitted in the West.00:54:40.000 --> 00:54:50.000Stuart Winchester: 100% agree. Jeremiah Kay continues, The ski school and MCP episodes back-to-back got me thinking about urban opportunities to learn and progress as a skier.00:54:50.000 --> 00:55:02.000Stuart Winchester: Mostly because I always thought MCP should acquire the Outpost Ice Rink at the base of the Sandia Tram, and put their version of the indoor part of Woodward in that facility.00:55:02.000 --> 00:55:13.000Stuart Winchester: Would love an update episode on the state, urban, indoor… uh, state, I think he's saying state of urban slash indoor ski areas. I know you covered Big Snow well, not sure what happened to Alpine X.00:55:13.000 --> 00:55:21.000Stuart Winchester: Much like Epic and Icon add small feeder hills, I wonder if they will add something like Snowbond to a past product.00:55:21.000 --> 00:55:38.000Stuart Winchester: A little surprised we don't have Woodward Brooklyn in a warehouse somewhere. Yeah, I think, Jeremiah, that that would get back to Doug's earlier comment about why the urban ski shows mostly died. It's just the expense. You don't… and the Brooklyn warehouse, as you well know.00:55:38.000 --> 00:55:40.000Stuart Winchester: is not inexpensive.00:55:40.000 --> 00:55:55.000Stuart Winchester: thing to find these days, even though they still look like they're 150 years old, because they are. I don't know what happened to AlpineX, either. I check in with them for an update once in a while, and they keep answering my emails, but there's nothing to report. I would imagine they're caught up either in permitting.00:55:55.000 --> 00:56:13.000Stuart Winchester: or financing hell, and probably both. Continuing, Allison says, this pod does a great job showing the appeal of smaller, out-of-the-way resorts. Thank you very much, Allison. That is a core part of the storm. I love ski areas, large and small. Patrick says, I had to rewind to double-check after listening to the first 10 minutes.00:56:13.000 --> 00:56:30.000Stuart Winchester: You recapped the exciting things MCP has done while mentioning every ski area except Arizona Snowball. Later, it made more sense. You discussed Snowball specifically with Jason and called out the potential for Power Rito to follow the same transformative storyline, and you probably planned that all along.00:56:30.000 --> 00:56:42.000Stuart Winchester: This was a great interview about a skier I'd love to check out one of these days, and maybe snowmaking will make it more feasible. Yeah, you know, Patrick, it's interesting. There's a little nuance there in that that big snowmaking project?00:56:42.000 --> 00:56:57.000Stuart Winchester: I believe all happened before MCP bought Snowbowl, so I hesitate to give them credit for it. I do give them credit for all the things they've done since, you know, putting in the Chadala and.00:56:57.000 --> 00:57:12.000Stuart Winchester: really revamping that ski area, and… and uh… I think the power pass and everything else has been great for it, and I think MCP's doing a… a great job across their portfolio, so… so you're right. It was… it was, uh, something I didn't get to till later, and… and I'm always…00:57:12.000 --> 00:57:13.000Stuart Winchester: a little bit…00:57:13.000 --> 00:57:22.000Stuart Winchester: indecisive about how much credit they should give her, but I am working on a separate podcast that's going to focus on that, so stand by for that.00:57:22.000 --> 00:57:24.000Stuart Winchester: Scott Abraham…00:57:24.000 --> 00:57:39.000Stuart Winchester: Bajarito, Powerito, Powerino, don't care what AI calls it, had one of the best powder days of my life 15 years ago or so. Girlfriend in Santa Fe, who worked at Los Alamos, drove her up on Thursday and headed for the mountain, 2 feet afresh since they closed Monday.00:57:39.000 --> 00:57:54.000Stuart Winchester: Over the groom, helly skiing quality, amazingly friendly locals who were delighted to show off their mountain to the tourists from Seattle, and green chili on my inexpensive burger, of course. Might have to visit her again this winter and sneak up on Thursday. Alright, Scott's a tough critic, so…00:57:54.000 --> 00:58:03.000Stuart Winchester: if he likes something, uh, that's a good sign that it's probably pretty good. So that's an endorsement, uh, from someone who typically complains about everything.00:58:04.000 --> 00:58:20.000Stuart Winchester: Uh, Aiden says, in the last comment, I was referring to Scaria operations and management programs when he said SROM, or similar at several colleges. Thanks again for the great work. So Aiden was referring to a previous comment he made in an episode when he said, uh, you should find out more about SROM programs in your…00:58:20.000 --> 00:58:27.000Stuart Winchester: And I said, you're right, I should, because I have no idea what they are. All right, thank you, Aiden, for clarifying that. That will be our show for today.00:58:27.000 --> 00:58:43.000Stuart Winchester: Please go to stormskiing.com and subscribe to the Storm Ski Newsletter. You can start with the free tier and the very best way to up to support my mission of independent ski journalism is to upgrade to the paid tier, which will give you the ability to interact with the podcast and all of the written content.00:58:43.000 --> 00:58:50.000Stuart Winchester: below the paywall, which typically is about 80% of the storm. Been a little slow lately, but like I said, it will pick up.00:58:50.000 --> 00:58:52.000Stuart Winchester: You can rep the storm.00:58:52.000 --> 00:59:05.000Stuart Winchester: like this hat if you're watching, uh, with hat, shirt, hoodie, go to stormskiing.myshopify.com. Please follow the storm on Instagram, TikTok, or YouTube, at Storm Ski Journal. Till next time, stay well, stay safe.00:59:05.000 --> 00:59:21.000Stuart Winchester: I'm Stuart Winchester, and I'll talk to you again very soon. No show tomorrow on Thursday. I'm recording a couple on Friday. We'll put one out Friday, one out Saturday. That's the plan anyway. General managers of Mount Southington, Connecticut, and our good friend Dennis Eshbaugh.00:59:21.000 --> 00:59:25.000Stuart Winchester: who has run Holiday Valley in New York for decades.00:59:26.000 --> 00:59:32.000Stuart Winchester: Till next time, stay well, stay safe. I'm Stuart Winchester, and I'll talk to you again very soon.00:59:33.000 --> 00:59:36.000Stuart Winchester: All right, sorry, you'll have to smooth me out a little at.00:59:36.000 --> 00:59:38.000Stuart Winchester: Okay, so, uh…00:59:38.000 --> 00:59:40.000Stuart Winchester: Just a couple notes.00:59:41.000 --> 00:59:42.000Stuart Winchester: Um…00:59:42.000 --> 00:59:44.000Stuart Winchester: There's, uh…00:59:44.000 --> 00:59:48.000Stuart Winchester: At the end, Doug says a discount code.00:59:48.000 --> 00:59:55.000Stuart Winchester: Storm, lowercase, 26, and he wants us… he said, put that up on your screen. I said, I'll ask my editor to do that. Get full access to The Storm Skiing Journal and Podcast at www.stormskiing.com/subscribe

Throwback hip hop joints mixed by Jamaica's Zj Sparks guaranteed to make you dance 1/ Get Back Ludacris 2/ Tables Turn BABYCHAM, FOXY BROWN 3/Shut Up Chick LIL KIM 4/Ugly BUBBA SPARXX 5/Murda T.O.K, SCARFACE, NOKIO 6/Bounce BIZ MARKIE, ELEPHANT MAN 7/Get Your Freak On MISSY ELLIOTT 8/One Minute Man Missy Elliot & Ludacris 9/Pick Up The Phone Tyrese, R. Kelly & Ludacris 11/Girls Callin Ghostface & Elephant Man 12/Rah Rah NAUGHTY BY NATURE 13/Stylin Rmx FOXY BROWN, NORE, BABY, LOON 14/Disappear Bubba Sparxx 15/When Last CLIPSE 16/From Da Church to Da Palace SNOOP DOGG 17.Grimey NORE 18/ Let's Get Dirty RED MAN 19/ What It Is BUSTA RHYMES 20/Bossman Beenie Man, Lady Saw & Sean Paul 21/I'm Serious Ti Ft Beenie Man 22/Lapdance N.E.R.D Ft Lee Harvey & Vita 23/Can I Have It Like That Pharell, GWEN STEFANI 24/U Understand Juvenile 25/Choke Me Spank Me Xhibit 26/Fatty Girl Ludacris Ll Cool J & Keith Murray 27/U Can Do it ICE CUBE 28/Work It (clean) Missy 29/Got Your Money DIRTY OLE BASTARD 30/Feel The Girl MISS JADE 31/Lovely Bubba Sparxxx ft Timbaland 32/Saturday LUDACRIS FT SLEEPY BROWN 33/No Matter What LIL KIM 34/U Owe Me NAS 35/She's A B**** MISSY ELLIOTT 36/Young'n (Holla Back) Fabolous ft Pharrell

Send us Fan MailJoel Van der Loon shares a solo episode on purpose, vulnerability, and the process of uncovering what he believes the soul is here to learn in this lifetime. He explores how childhood conditioning, fear, and unconscious beliefs can block clarity, and why inner honesty, meditation, and time in nature matter for anyone trying to live more authentically.In this episode, Joel reflects on the tension many men feel around vulnerability, the role of intuition in decision-making, and the difference between chasing external expectations versus listening to inner guidance.Timestamps(00:00) Opening the episode and why vulnerability matters(00:40) Why men struggle to share cringeworthy or sensitive feelings(01:53) The listener question that inspired the episode(03:20) Intuition as the way to recognize truth(04:44) Early signs of passion and life force(05:26) Family influence, vocation, and choosing passion before money(06:25) Independence, selfhood, and not being shaped by fear of failure(07:06) Passion as energy and the soul's compass(08:01) Childhood conditioning and how beliefs get programmed early(08:58) Why self-doubt must be questioned and challenged(09:27) Thoughts, reality, and the first step toward purpose(10:08) What he means by life's purpose and the soul's lessons(10:39) Inner peace versus performative spirituality(11:39) How purpose affects relationships, work, and emotional state(12:08) Restlessness, authenticity, and midlife purpose-seeking(13:36) Finding yourself by doing the hard work honestly(14:45) The Boyd Vardy idea of knowing the destination without knowing the route(15:15) Surrender, trust, and resisting the need for control(16:10) Why inner guidance creates more peace than ego control(17:06) Easy path versus right path(17:34) The fog analogy, stepping stones, and moving without full certainty(18:32) Signs, synchronicities, and bodily affirmation(19:06) Deprogramming the mind through consistent work(19:36) Why mindset alone is not enough and the body stores emotion(20:35) Somatic work, energy healing, and releasing stored emotion(21:05) Buddha, suffering, and the chatter of the subconscious mind(22:02) Meditation and the idea of higher wisdom or the superconscious(22:43) Simplicity over overcomplicating spirituality(23:11) Why 2027 is framed as a major turning point(24:25) How to meet confusion, agitation, and misalignment(25:10) Stepping into fear and acknowledging it instead of avoiding it(25:39) Taking stock in solitude and deciding what needs to change(26:08) Closing thoughts, feedback, and the future direction of the podcast(27:06) Nature, meditation, and inner tranquility as recurring themes(27:37) Outro and call to subscribe and shareNotable quotes“Passion to me is just an energy flow through your body.”“Your life's purpose is your soul's purpose.”“The most important thing that you can do right now in your life is to step into fear and let go of anything that does not serve.”Support the showHuge thank you to everyone who supports In the Bush podcast — if you've been enjoying the show, please consider making a donation to help us keep producing the content you love. Every bit of support helps us keep the mics on and the episodes coming. Thanks for listening, and we'll catch you next time! www.primalskillsacademy.com

Episode SummaryMikki has said many times — on this podcast, on other podcasts, and repeatedly on Instagram — that eating carbohydrate at dinner helps calm the nervous system, and that this is why people who feel wired at night sleep better when they add some back in. In this episode she corrects herself. Not on the advice, which she still gives and still sees work, but on the mechanism she has been attaching to it: insulin clearing branched-chain amino acids out of the bloodstream, tryptophan winning the competition at the blood-brain barrier, and the resulting serotonin and melatonin sedating you. Every step in that chain is real biochemistry, which is exactly why it sounds right. It just does not happen at the doses found in any meal she would actually recommend.From there she works through what is more likely going on. She covers the head-to-head trial that put carbohydrate, two proteins and a placebo up against each other before bed and found nothing; why the pre-sleep protein literature is muscle research rather than sleep research; the difference between an energy deficit and low energy availability; and the body of work on cognitive dietary restraint — the mental effort of not eating, which carries measurable physiological consequences independent of how much is actually eaten. She is careful throughout about how messy cortisol data is, and about which parts of it she thinks still stand. The practical conclusion is unchanged but better founded: if you are wired and under-eating relative to your training, it is probably the calories, and carbohydrate is usually the easiest thing to add back.Key TopicsWhy the mechanism matters even when the advice is fine — Mikki's argument is that people do not just follow advice, they extend it using the mechanism you gave them, so an explanation that isn't real can cause problems in situations you never had in mind.The tryptophan pathway, and where it breaks — the effect requires carbohydrate high enough and protein low enough for tryptophan to win the competition at the blood-brain barrier. Add meaningful protein and it disappears, and the melatonin generated downstream is nowhere near a dose that influences sleep.Lower carbohydrate was associated with more slow-wave sleep, not less — a meta-analysis of polysomnography studies found lower carbohydrate intake linked to more slow-wave sleep, less REM and a shorter time to fall asleep. That is the opposite direction to what Mikki had been saying.The head-to-head trial in elite female athletes — 40 g of alpha-lactalbumin, 40 g of casein, 40 g of carbohydrate or a non-caloric placebo, taken 30 minutes before bed for three nights each. No difference in total sleep time, sleep onset latency, subjective sleep quality, resting heart rate or heart rate variability, and no difference in overnight glucose on CGM.Pre-sleep protein is muscle research, not sleep research — protein before bed does do what it says for the overnight muscle protein synthetic response. That is a separate question from whether it sedates you, and when sleep is the outcome tested directly it is no better than carbohydrate or nothing.Why it still works in clinic: it is the calories — the null trial was run in adequately-fed people. Mikki's clinical population is in a deficit and often training hard, so adding food at dinner adds total energy to the day. Carbohydrate is simply the lever she usually reaches for, because protein is normally already handled in a fat-loss meal.Energy deficit is not the same thing as low energy availability — two women in the same deficit can be in very different positions depending on training volume. Mikki cites the 30 kcal/kg fat-free mass threshold and is explicit that it is not a number everyone agrees on.Cognitive dietary restraint has physiological consequences — over two years in 123 healthy young women, higher restraint was associated with more cycles showing subclinical ovulatory disturbances (56% versus 34%), and physical activity, general stress, BMI and energy intake did not explain the difference. Related work found higher 24-hour urinary cortisol in high-restraint women, replicated in postmenopausal women aged 49 to 75.A one-off cortisol test tells you very little — within-person variability is large, the cortisol awakening response has test-retest reliability too poor for individual comparisons, and the research Mikki is drawing on compared groups using 24-hour urinary collections rather than single spot samples. Noise that swamps one person averages out across sixty or a hundred.What to actually do — if you are wired, under-eating and training, add the calories back. Put a small portion of carbohydrate on a plate whose protein is already covered; if protein is the thing that is low, add protein instead, particularly through midlife. And if fear of evening carbohydrate is the real barrier, add it back and watch what happens — evidence builds confidence.Chapters00:00 Where I got the mechanism wrong02:59 Benton, dose and the sleep studies04:49 Carbs, casein or placebo before bed07:12 Why it still works in clinic08:56 Energy deficit, training load and cortisol11:39 Fear of carbs and dietary restraint14:19 How reliable is cortisol testing16:09 What to actually doGuest / ResourcesThis is a solo episode. No guest.Researchers and work referred to in the episodeDavid Benton and colleagues, Swansea University — work evaluating the putative mechanisms linking carbohydrate to sleep, and a meta-analysis of polysomnography studies finding lower carbohydrate intake associated with more slow-wave sleep, less REM sleep and shorter sleep onset latency.Andrew Huberman — Mikki recalls hearing him make the starchy-carbohydrate-and-serotonin case for sleep. She refers to this from memory; no specific episode is identified.Zach Bitter — mentioned as a low-carbohydrate proponent who reported that higher carbohydrate intake worsened his sleep. An individual account, not a study.Luc van Loon's group — including Jorn Trommelen and Tim Snijders — the pre-sleep protein and overnight muscle protein synthesis research. Mikki's point is that this body of work is about muscle, not sleep.Anne Loucks — the work establishing that luteinising hormone pulsatility is disrupted below roughly 30 kcal per kg of fat-free mass per day, after subtracting the energy cost of exercise. Mikki notes in the episode that this threshold is not universally agreed.Yuko Nakamura and colleagues — a meta-analysis separating the severity of energy restriction, finding that fasting raises cortisol strongly while low-calorie and very-low-calorie diets do not, and that the effect fades over several weeks.Jennifer Bedford and colleagues — a two-year study of 123 healthy young women, finding higher cognitive dietary restraint associated with more cycles showing subclinical ovulatory disturbances (56% versus 34%), with physical activity, general stress, BMI and energy intake failing to explain the difference.Judy McLean and colleagues — 24-hour urinary cortisol excretion compared in premenopausal women with high versus low dietary restraint scores, matched for age, BMI and cycle length.Candice Rideout and colleagues — the same finding in postmenopausal women aged 49 to 75, who d...

Meervoudig Europees kampioen en een kast vol medailles.

In Episode 2 of The Relevance Project, Cole continues working with Kitworks, Loon'r, and SkyGOAT to move from brand strategy into actual content strategy. The episode starts by pressure-testing the idea of treating a brand like a character. For each of the three brands, those characters are becoming a tool for translating a point of view into recognizable behavior without necessarily putting a fictional character in front of the audience. The project then takes a detour into the fundamentals of marketing with Jenni Romaniuk. The conversation explores mental availability, category entry points, and the idea that much of marketing's job is helping a brand come to mind in the right buying situations. But strategy alone isn't enough. Joe Prebich of Benchmade introduces the other side of the equation: the creative still has to be interesting enough to earn attention. From there, the teams begin turning the strategy into actual content ideas. Kitworks explores gear management and the strange rituals of outdoor life. Loon'r begins building an entire creative world around a war on cold feet. SkyGOAT starts experimenting with the idea of bringing unexpected comfort into uncomfortable outdoor situations.   About: This podcast is produced by Port Side, a creative agency that helps outdoor brands build relevance, recognition, and attention.  Enjoy this episode and discover other resources below: Support Us | We've been bootstrapping this for 6 years. Help us keep this going The Archive | 250 hours is a lot to listen to; what if you could search it all?  Relevance Project | We're building three brands in public. Follow along Email List | Follow along and join our email list  LinkedIn | Connect with Cole

Conflict in the Middle East continues to disrupt global shipping routes including the Strait of Hormuz and the Strait of Malacca. China is now turning to Russia for support in developing an alternative trade path: the Northern Sea Route. On 15 August, China sent its first ship on its newly commercialised, regular shipping route, navigating north around Russia's coastline. The maritime trade path connects eastern Chinese ports including Ningbo to Europe, offering a quicker way to EU markets which account for 20 per cent of China's exports. Ships must be specially designed to break ice and open up frozen waters. Global warming could increase access to this path. South Korea among other nations are beginning to discover its potential. Can China's polar silk road transform global trade? Our panel this week are Dr Marc Lanteigne, professor of political science at the University of Tromsø, The Arctic University of Norway; Nan Hao, researcher in economic security at Helsinki Geo-economics Society, Finland and Geneva Graduate Institute, Switzerland; Prof Dr Katarzyna Zysk, professor of international relations and contemporary history at Norweigan Institute for Defence Studies, Oslo, Norway, and Karen van Loon, research fellow in Security and Defence programme at Clingendael Institute, The Hague, The Netherlands (Photo: The icebreaker Kronprins Haakon sails through sea ice. Credit: Oliver Morin/Getty Images)Presenter: Charmaine Cozier Producer: Evie Yabsley Researcher: Amelia Cox Sound engineer: Nathaniel Danter Production co-ordinator: Phoebe Lomas Production management assistant: Liam Morrey Editor: Tom Bigwood

Send us Fan MailJoel van der Loon sits down with Ryan Levinson for a wide-ranging conversation about diagnosis, risk, purpose, masculinity, and what it means to keep moving when your body changes. Ryan shares the arc from his mid twenties diagnosis with FSH muscular dystrophy to the decade he spent sailing in French Polynesia, and how those experiences reshaped his sense of self. This episode matters because it goes beyond a success story and gets into the harder question of how to stay oriented when the old sources of identity no longer fit. In this episode, Ryan Levinson shares how his diagnosis in his mid twenties with FSH muscular dystrophy changed the trajectory of his life.Joel and Ryan trace Ryan's early identity through surfing, skateboarding, and a rebellious streak that pushed against school, family expectations, and conventional career paths.Ryan explains the suicidal moment in college through a mistaken philosophy about living close to death, and how a friend interrupting that night changed everything.The two discuss how surfing, the ocean, and later sailing became spiritual anchors through movement, challenge, and clarity of purpose.Ryan describes how the diagnosis unexpectedly opened doors, shifting how others saw him from lazy or unrealistic to inspirational and capable.They talk through the decision to buy a sailboat and live aboard in French Polynesia for a decade, including the fear, surrender, and transformation that came with leaving the dock.Ryan shares how disease progression has changed his body, his daily capabilities, and his relationship to purpose, protection, and being a partner to Nicole.Joel introduces a spiritual lens around knowing oneself, shadow work, and authenticity as the path to meaning.Ryan reflects on how much of his life has been driven by perseverance, and how he now has to reassess his limits much more frequently. The conversation closes with mutual gratitude, vulnerability, and Ryan sharing where people can find him online. Timestamps00:00 - Brotherly reunion and the energy of deep trust 03:24 - Surfing, rebellion, and the identity Ryan built before diagnosis 06:14 - The college suicide call and the friend who broke through the moment 09:44 - Why it was not about depression, but about anticipation and future fear 11:45 - Feeling trapped by a future with no obvious vocation 13:05 - Surfing as meditation and a spiritual connection to something larger 15:10 - The diagnosis and the first move toward a new path 16:24 - Pressure from family versus a dream of ecotourism and ocean work 17:23 - A doctor's blunt advice to choose something practical 20:18 - How the diagnosis changed public perception and opened doors 21:17 - Leveraging disability, media, and adaptive sports opportunities 23:54 - Why Ryan and Nicole bought a sailboat and crossed to French Polynesia 25:52 - Surrender, trust, and leaving the dock without knowing the outcome 28:29 - What long passage sailing changes in a person 31:44 - Simplicity, clarity of purpose, and why risk feels meaningful 35:53 - Ryan's current conflict around purpose as physical ability declines 38:25 - Losing the ability to protect in the way he once could 40:34 - Why Nicole's capability changes the burden conversation 44:19 - The emotional and psychological work of surrendering masculinity 48:24 - Joel's view of spiritual awakening as remembering the soul 52:08 - Why the compass shifted before leaving the boat life 55:36 - The physical toll of years at sea and disease progression 60:23 - Metrics, recovery, and adapting daily to what the body can do 63:01 - Constant reassessment before surfing, diving, or physically demanding work 65:32 - What Ryan is most proud of now: perseverance 68:02 - Joel's challenge that logic can become a trap 69:35 - Why the relationship with Nicole is central to Ryan's fear 71:14 - Joel's teaching on knowing God through knowing self and others 75:21 - Untangling the story of self and doing shadow work 77:20 - Hadza, wilderness time, and the progression of spiritual learning 81:10 - Joel's divorce, grief, and the liberation of brutal self-honesty 84:19 - Ryan on people inventing new stories instead of accepting change 85:46 - Life as floating with the current instead of fighting it 87:21 - Accepting that decline, loss, and change are guaranteed 90:09 - Final gratitude and where to find Ryan onlineSupport the showHuge thank you to everyone who supports In the Bush podcast — if you've been enjoying the show, please consider making a donation to help us keep producing the content you love. Every bit of support helps us keep the mics on and the episodes coming. Thanks for listening, and we'll catch you next time! www.primalskillsacademy.com

The Storm Skiing Journal and Podcast is a reader-supported publication. The only way to interact with the podcast is to upgrade to The Storm's paid tier. Thank you for supporting independent ski journalism.Welcome to the Storm's short-form, news-focused podcast. Don't worry, I will still write newsletters too (I blasted out this post on Smuggs joining Indy Pass this morning). To browse a podcast transcript, click the “transcript” button above - click on any block of text and the audio will jump to that point in the conversation. Paid subscribers can leave a comment in the article below, or by joining The Storm's chat (also below). I'll respond to some comments in the next episode. The Zoom transcript (click “transcript” above for the Substack transcript, which will zoom to any point in the video when you click on the associated text block; timestamps below DO NOT MATCH THE VIDEO)00:01:40.000 --> 00:01:56.000Stuart Winchester: Welcome to Storm. It is September 9th, 2026 on a Wednesday. I've got a really great show for you today. We are going to visit with Loon President and General Manager, Brian Norton, who has been on the show before.00:01:56.000 --> 00:02:04.000Stuart Winchester: But we are going to have him on to talk about the Blackridge expansion that Loon announced last week.00:02:04.000 --> 00:02:10.000Stuart Winchester: There's actually a couple of expansion items in the news today, and I want to hit on those first before we get to Brian.00:02:10.000 --> 00:02:27.000Stuart Winchester: Altera today confirmed a couple of things we already knew in their 2026 to 27 capital plan. So unlike Vale who tends to release all their lifts and expansions and projects at once, Vale or Altera lets them leak out.00:02:27.000 --> 00:02:41.000Stuart Winchester: and then officially announces them sometime later. So, we had a pretty good idea these were coming. The first one will be up at Mont Tremblant, and Tremblant is…00:02:41.000 --> 00:02:44.000Stuart Winchester: If you've been there, it's…00:02:44.000 --> 00:02:55.000Stuart Winchester: an IntraWest legacy, so it has one of these really nice walkable villages of the sort that I'm always pushing for, and it has really great ski terrain. Busiest… it's…00:02:55.000 --> 00:03:11.000Stuart Winchester: Traditionally, Intrawest had the three busiest ski areas in Canada. They had, uh, Whistler was number one, obviously. Number two was Tremblant, and number three, surprisingly, was Blue Mountain, Ontario, which we covered on in the podcast.00:03:11.000 --> 00:03:14.000Stuart Winchester: Pretty recently, but I want to…00:03:14.000 --> 00:03:19.000Stuart Winchester: show you something here. So this is why it's cool to watch, because you can see…00:03:19.000 --> 00:03:31.000Stuart Winchester: some of these things on YouTube or Substack if you're watching the podcast. So this is Tremblant's timber expansion that they're gonna open for 27 to 28. They're gonna have a new.00:03:31.000 --> 00:03:46.000Stuart Winchester: quad, high-speed quad, coming up to the Timber Summit with 8 new trails over here. Uh, and that's gonna be… let's see, they gave an acreage on that, 62 acres. So sometimes it's hard when you see these things, especially if you don't know the mountain.00:03:46.000 --> 00:03:57.000Stuart Winchester: to really know where it fits in. So this one, here's from the top, you can see the new trails, the timber trails, coming down here off of the new.00:03:57.000 --> 00:04:09.000Stuart Winchester: high-speed quad that'll come out of the Versant-Soleil base. And then here is the existing, if you're watching, here's the existing lift that comes up to the current Tremblant Summit.00:04:09.000 --> 00:04:19.000Stuart Winchester: And you can see that right here. So the new expansion will go bloop right up here, and we'll have some new trails over there. And then Altera also announced.00:04:19.000 --> 00:04:32.000Stuart Winchester: or not really announced, but reconfirmed, that will be when the Club Med is open, so that all-inclusive experience will be there for Tremblant. So, nice expansion coming for Tremblant. Obviously.00:04:32.000 --> 00:04:42.000Stuart Winchester: Altera has had a big expansion ongoing at Deer Valley for years and years. So, Deer Valley, prior to 2023.00:04:42.000 --> 00:04:46.000Stuart Winchester: was really just Bald Mountain.00:04:46.000 --> 00:05:02.000Stuart Winchester: On over to Empire. Uh, and then here's the front side, and then this little baldy peak was here. But over the past three seasons, they've really blown the place out and added thousands and thousands of acres. Uh, Deer Valley, believe it or not, is now the…00:05:02.000 --> 00:05:18.000Stuart Winchester: Sixth largest ski area in America. And, and they're opening 200 more acres this year. Hale Peak will be another high speed quad. I don't have a vertical on Hale Peak, but they did confirm today that Hale Peak will be.00:05:18.000 --> 00:05:29.000Stuart Winchester: 200 acres, so Deer Valley will now total 4,500 acres. It looks, it sounds pretty big, but right next door to it is Park City, which.00:05:29.000 --> 00:05:45.000Stuart Winchester: Combined with the historic canyons is 7,300 acres. That's the largest ski area in the United States. So those are a couple of the expansions that we have coming up. We'll talk about another one in a little bit with Loon. And the reason I wanna talk about expansions with you.00:05:45.000 --> 00:05:47.000Stuart Winchester: Is… is I… I…00:05:48.000 --> 00:05:58.000Stuart Winchester: I write about this over and over again, but sometimes when I write an article, it fritters off into the wilderness, and I'm not able to…00:05:58.000 --> 00:06:12.000Stuart Winchester: it doesn't have the staying power necessarily where people might find it sometime later. So I want to revisit some of these points that I made in the past about expansions and how important they are. So I wrote this article a few years ago.00:06:12.000 --> 00:06:14.000Stuart Winchester: And…00:06:16.000 --> 00:06:18.000Stuart Winchester: I was looking at…00:06:18.000 --> 00:06:34.000Stuart Winchester: So everyone always gets hung up on this active ski ski areas number. And the NSA has tracked this for years and years. And here's the numbers you can see on the screen if you're watching in 1991 to 92 season.00:06:34.000 --> 00:06:46.000Stuart Winchester: The United States had 546 active ski areas. As of 2023 to 24, it had 486. The number for this season was right around 490.00:06:46.000 --> 00:06:49.000Stuart Winchester: So, oftentimes.00:06:49.000 --> 00:07:04.000Stuart Winchester: We will see articles usually written by folks who are not ski media, just general media, and they'll write about this number and they'll find this statistic and they'll point to the declining number of ski areas and say, skiing is dying. Climate change is killing skiing.00:07:05.000 --> 00:07:17.000Stuart Winchester: But there's actually a much more nuanced story behind that. So I pulled this number last year when I was reading an article from The Motley Fool, which is an investor site that I use. I love The Motley Fool.00:07:18.000 --> 00:07:24.000Stuart Winchester: But it was talking about MTN stock, which a lot of you know is the stock ticker for Vail Resorts.00:07:24.000 --> 00:07:33.000Stuart Winchester: And the Motley Fool article pointed out that in 1992, and this was their bear case, their case against buying MTN stock.00:07:33.000 --> 00:07:44.000Stuart Winchester: During… I'm gonna quote here, the Motley Fool. During the 1992 ski season, there were 546 ski areas operating in the United States, compared to 486 today. This article's from 2025.00:07:44.000 --> 00:07:57.000Stuart Winchester: Supply, says the fool, is flat to shrinking. On the demand side, 3 of the top 5 busiest ski seasons on record occurred each of the last 3 years. Demand is up. So, they were trying to make the point that.00:07:58.000 --> 00:08:07.000Stuart Winchester: Vail Resorts had a very valuable commodity, because the number of ski areas was shrinking. I said, wait a second, this doesn't really make sense, because…00:08:08.000 --> 00:08:11.000Stuart Winchester: How are you having so many fewer?00:08:11.000 --> 00:08:25.000Stuart Winchester: ski areas, and so many more skier visits? Well, the answer is pretty simple. We have a lot more ski terrain. In fact, I did an analysis in response to that Fool article.00:08:25.000 --> 00:08:27.000Stuart Winchester: And I found, just examining…00:08:27.000 --> 00:08:30.000Stuart Winchester: The 11 western ski states.00:08:30.000 --> 00:08:40.000Stuart Winchester: that, minus Alaska, that those 11 states had 54,598 more acres of terrain.00:08:40.000 --> 00:08:50.000Stuart Winchester: available at their ski areas, their lift service ski areas, than they had in 1994. So, yes, there are fewer ski areas.00:08:50.000 --> 00:09:00.000Stuart Winchester: now than there were in the early 90s. There were 546 in 92, 486 today, but there's a lot more terrain, and so what ended up happening was.00:09:00.000 --> 00:09:08.000Stuart Winchester: The ski areas that were successful expanded. It was as simple as that. And when I did this analysis.00:09:08.000 --> 00:09:10.000Stuart Winchester: I looked at…00:09:11.000 --> 00:09:24.000Stuart Winchester: I looked at 92 ski areas that I had the data for from 1992, and they happen to be some of the biggest ski areas in the West. And I compared their acreage in 1994 according to a guidebook I had from that date that I'd kept.00:09:24.000 --> 00:09:30.000Stuart Winchester: 107,671 acres was the total for these ski areas.00:09:30.000 --> 00:09:45.000Stuart Winchester: Fast forward to 2025, when I did this analysis, those same 92 ski areas had grown from 107,671 acres to 159,754 acres.00:09:45.000 --> 00:09:55.000Stuart Winchester: Then I added in a few ski areas that had opened since then, places like Tamarack in Idaho, Blacktail in Montana. There hasn't been a lot, but there's been a few.00:09:55.000 --> 00:10:11.000Stuart Winchester: And then I subtracted the lost ski areas. The biggest of them was Ski Rio in New Mexico. But for the most part, the ski areas that closed were small surface tow operations and they were in the region of a much larger area and most likely failed in large part.00:10:11.000 --> 00:10:29.000Stuart Winchester: Because they couldn't compete with that full service area, which could offer folks not only beginner terrain, but a progression up to more interesting terrain. So, there's a lot more ski terrain than there used to be, and to give you an idea of how much terrain 54,598 acres is.00:10:29.000 --> 00:10:36.000Stuart Winchester: Currently in Colorado, the whole state of Colorado, which has a quarter of the ski terrain in the entire United States.00:10:36.000 --> 00:10:42.000Stuart Winchester: there's 45,552 acres of terrain. So we've added the equivalent of another Colorado.00:10:42.000 --> 00:10:45.000Stuart Winchester: Now, there's a caveat to that.00:10:45.000 --> 00:10:48.000Stuart Winchester: The ski industry has been able to grow by expansion.00:10:48.000 --> 00:10:58.000Stuart Winchester: But it hasn't necessarily been able to grow where it needs to grow, and I made another point, a related point, in another recent article that I wrote.00:10:58.000 --> 00:11:11.000Stuart Winchester: for… about the U.S. Forest Service, and how most of the ski areas in the western United States are built on U.S. Forest Service land. They're leased from the U.S. Forest Service under 40-year terms.00:11:11.000 --> 00:11:18.000Stuart Winchester: However, following the National Environmental Policy Act of 1969, those permits.00:11:18.000 --> 00:11:33.000Stuart Winchester: got almost impossible to obtain new permits. The Forest Service had lots and lots of ski areas proposed, but they were all shut down. Everyone except for Beaver Creek and then Blacktail in 1998 were shut down with.00:11:33.000 --> 00:11:51.000Stuart Winchester: court challenges that came out of NEPA in 1969. So, while we have more terrain, skiable terrain, than we had in 1994, the reason it often feels as though the mountains are overcrowded and insufficiently distributed.00:11:51.000 --> 00:11:57.000Stuart Winchester: is because they are. Because we've only been able to expand the ski areas where they were.00:11:57.000 --> 00:12:10.000Stuart Winchester: rather than building new ski areas where people move to. Look at snowy regions like Washington and Oregon, some of the snowiest ski areas in the country. A lot of them still don't have snowmaking because they get so much snow there.00:12:10.000 --> 00:12:22.000Stuart Winchester: Washington in 1980 had 4.1 million people. Today it has 8.2 million people, double the population, but fewer ski areas and some larger.00:12:22.000 --> 00:12:37.000Stuart Winchester: Stevens Pass has certainly grown, Crystal has grown, Mission Ridge has grown. Oregon, same thing, went from 2.6 million people in 1980 to 4.3 million today, but has fewer ski areas now than it did in the 1980s. So…00:12:37.000 --> 00:12:48.000Stuart Winchester: For better or worse, we are stuck right now with growth through expansion. So, I want to get to an expansion. First, I want to tell you about one of my awesome partners.00:12:48.000 --> 00:13:00.000Stuart Winchester: I've been working with Bonfire Collective for a long time, and if you run a ski area or an outdoor brand, you should consider hooking up with them as well.00:13:00.000 --> 00:13:10.000Stuart Winchester: Bonfire Collective is a fractional marketing team that collaborates with ski areas and outdoor brands to give your marketing a fresh perspective and better storytelling.00:13:10.000 --> 00:13:16.000Stuart Winchester: Bonfire can help you rethink your approach in ways that can turbocharge your business.00:13:16.000 --> 00:13:31.000Stuart Winchester: Bonfire Collective, for example, took on the marketing at one New Hampshire sea area and doubled revenue in just three years. And when the storm was ready to invest in its first ever digital marketing campaign last year, I worked with Bonfire to make it happen.00:13:31.000 --> 00:13:36.000Stuart Winchester: I could not be happier with the results. I think you will love working with them too.00:13:36.000 --> 00:13:40.000Stuart Winchester: To get started, you will want to talk to Eric over at Bonfire Collective.00:13:40.000 --> 00:13:56.000Stuart Winchester: Eric was a co-founder of Bluebird Backcountry Colorado, the first human powered ski area. He knows the ski business, as many of you know from that episode of the Storm Skiing Podcast that he appeared on last year. Visit bonfirecollective.com or I will be happy.00:13:56.000 --> 00:14:03.000Stuart Winchester: to make that connection for you. Alright, with that, let's go to our guest for today.00:14:05.000 --> 00:14:08.000Stuart Winchester: And…00:14:09.000 --> 00:14:15.000Stuart Winchester: Here he is, Mr. Brian Norton. Brian, what an awesome background! Where are you at?00:14:15.000 --> 00:14:19.000brian norton: Uh, I'm in my office, but that's hanging outside my office, so…00:14:18.000 --> 00:14:24.000Stuart Winchester: Oh, okay, cool, I thought maybe you were in the, uh, the kink barn with the, uh…00:14:24.000 --> 00:14:27.000Stuart Winchester: With that, with the cool groomer behind you.00:14:28.000 --> 00:14:44.000Stuart Winchester: All right, well, let me give you a proper introduction here. Uh, my guest today is president and general manager of Loon Mountain, New Hampshire since 2022. Loon claims New Hampshire's tallest vertical drop at 2,190 feet.00:14:44.000 --> 00:14:58.000Stuart Winchester: served by 13 lifts. Last week, Loon announced the 272-acre Black Ridge expansion that, when added to the resort's existing 403-acre footprint.00:14:58.000 --> 00:15:08.000Stuart Winchester: will make Lune the largest ski area in New Hampshire, and the sixth largest ski area in the eastern United States at 675 acres.00:15:08.000 --> 00:15:23.000Stuart Winchester: He began his Loon career in 2001 as a Lyft attendant, and now he's running the place. He is Brian Norton. Brian, welcome back to the storm. Always good to see what's new at Loon, because there is always something new at Loon. How you doing today, Brian?00:15:23.000 --> 00:15:29.000brian norton: I'm doing awesome. It's sweatshirt weather right now, so we're getting closer.00:15:29.000 --> 00:15:33.000Stuart Winchester: Nice. Did you do a snowmaking test yet, or is that Sunday River's ter.00:15:32.000 --> 00:15:38.000brian norton: No, we have not done that yet. Sunday will probably beat us to that one.00:15:37.000 --> 00:15:54.000Stuart Winchester: All right, let's talk about Black Ridge. This is really an amazing project, and I've been pretty vocal and frank over the years about what I saw as Loon's biggest shortcoming, which was not enough real expert terrain, and by that I really meant glades, wild terrain.00:15:54.000 --> 00:15:58.000Stuart Winchester: Talk to us about Black Ridge, what it is, and how it's going to change Loon.00:15:59.000 --> 00:16:14.000brian norton: Yeah, I mean, it's a pivotal project for the ski resort. As you mentioned, it's almost doubling the size of the ski resort. For those not familiar with it, it's this kind of secret shoulder glade skiing. It's been there.00:16:14.000 --> 00:16:30.000brian norton: It was developed over time by some locals just kind of going out there, you know, maybe not necessarily following the rules, certainly not at our approval, but people have been skiing there. I mean, I think the first time I went skiing over there, I was in college, like 2001, and it was like you had to kind of find your way over there. You had to commit to it.00:16:27.000 --> 00:16:28.000Stuart Winchester: Okay.00:16:31.000 --> 00:16:42.000brian norton: beautiful, um, beautiful area. It's like a big catcher's mitt off the side of the ski resort that just holds snow really well, and there's a lot of, um, it's a mile and a quarter.00:16:42.000 --> 00:16:51.000brian norton: hike, uh, across a ridgeline. You can actually ski or skate most of it. There's a few sections where you have to, you know, unclick and walk and…00:16:51.000 --> 00:17:09.000brian norton: um, you just get this incredible glade scheme that brings you right back to the bottom of North Peak, so it's like this full circle, you're way the heck out there, there's a couple viewpoints where you can stand at this cliff and just look back at the ski resort and look into the town of Lincoln, you're like, whoa, I am way out there, but a completely different view than, you know, most people would.00:17:09.000 --> 00:17:23.000brian norton: would ever get to see from Loon. And so, yeah, we've been working on it for a couple years with the Forest Service, trying to, like, wrap that into our special use permit. And, um, yeah, super happy to have that announcement, kind of. Like I said, planning.00:17:23.000 --> 00:17:28.000brian norton: For a long time, but awesome to have that hit the newsstands the other day.00:17:27.000 --> 00:17:34.000Stuart Winchester: So help us understand Loon's Forest Service footprint. This is a conversation I'm accustomed to having with.00:17:34.000 --> 00:17:53.000Stuart Winchester: your partners who run western ski areas. There's very few, just 7 in New England, that touch Forest Service land. My understanding is that Loon is not entirely on Forest Service land. I believe it's Kissing Cousins Lift. You're riding up, and you see a sign, welcome to the White Mountains National Forest. So, where are those boundaries at?00:17:53.000 --> 00:17:55.000Stuart Winchester: at Loon.00:17:54.000 --> 00:18:05.000brian norton: Yeah, it's really just the bottom. I mean, like, pretty much if you can hit a golf ball there, you're on private land from a base area, hit it up, and then everything above there is forest service land, so…00:17:59.000 --> 00:18:00.000Stuart Winchester: Okay.00:18:01.000 --> 00:18:02.000Stuart Winchester: Yeah.00:18:04.000 --> 00:18:05.000Stuart Winchester: Okay.00:18:05.000 --> 00:18:09.000brian norton: Yeah, it's the top 95% of the skewers work.00:18:05.000 --> 00:18:07.000Stuart Winchester: So how?00:18:08.000 --> 00:18:16.000Stuart Winchester: Right, so Loon went through quite a process as I remember it back in the 90s to open up South Peak and there was…00:18:16.000 --> 00:18:22.000Stuart Winchester: a lot of resistance to that locally, and ultimately, you got it opened.00:18:23.000 --> 00:18:25.000Stuart Winchester: was…00:18:25.000 --> 00:18:30.000Stuart Winchester: if you look at Black Ridge, it's… there's no new lift, right? It's essentially…00:18:30.000 --> 00:18:35.000Stuart Winchester: Glade thinning. So, so I want to talk about the process for that in a minute, but.00:18:36.000 --> 00:18:45.000Stuart Winchester: What was the process like of working with the Forest Service? Did they seem much more amenable and does the local community seem much more amenable?00:18:45.000 --> 00:18:54.000Stuart Winchester: to this given the small actual environmental impact? And was that a consideration in deciding how to develop this terrain?00:18:54.000 --> 00:19:10.000brian norton: I mean, it was definitely a consideration for us as we think about, you know, growing the ski resort sustainably. I think the, you know, and our partnership with the Forest Service is a really great one. I hear, you know, different stories from around the industry or around the country.00:19:10.000 --> 00:19:26.000brian norton: I just can't speak highly enough of our team here and the relationship that we have with them. And, the fact that this was kind of already skiing, the fact that it was super low impact, we weren't ever going to put a lift or a lodge or some sort of, you know, driving snow cats over there. We're not even doing any of that.00:19:26.000 --> 00:19:31.000brian norton: really, so it was a small lift, I think, to bring this kind of.00:19:31.000 --> 00:19:43.000brian norton: thing that people were skiing into the permit boundary, which really, you know, there's some work to clean it up and to create slightly better access, mostly for our patrol team to react out there.00:19:43.000 --> 00:19:44.000Stuart Winchester: Mm-hmm.00:19:43.000 --> 00:19:46.000brian norton: But this is, um…00:19:46.000 --> 00:19:48.000brian norton: It's a small lift to bring our…00:19:48.000 --> 00:19:52.000brian norton: Services, so that we can go, you know, in the past.00:19:52.000 --> 00:19:56.000brian norton: Someone would get hurt, someone would get lost ‘cause they thought they knew where they were going.00:19:56.000 --> 00:19:57.000Stuart Winchester: Yep.00:19:56.000 --> 00:20:14.000brian norton: technically, we're supposed to call fish and game, and they're supposed to go rescue them. A lot of times, we helped with that. So, by bringing this into the permit boundary, we're allowed to help manage it. So, um, this is really a win-win for everyone. It's a win-win for the skiers, it's a win-win for the Forest Service, because now we can actually manage something that wasn'.00:20:01.000 --> 00:20:02.000Stuart Winchester: Okay.00:20:14.000 --> 00:20:16.000brian norton: That's a great opportunity for us.00:20:16.000 --> 00:20:28.000Stuart Winchester: Yeah, it's going to be tremendous terrain. You know, another big difference between working in the East and the West is sometimes if you want to open 500 acres of glades in the West, you just drop a rope.00:20:28.000 --> 00:20:39.000Stuart Winchester: Uh, in the east, there tends to be a lot of undergrowth. Now, I don't know if that's the case at Loon, because maybe you have some old growth there, where the canopy is, is, has, you know, shut out some of that little stuff.00:20:39.000 --> 00:20:45.000Stuart Winchester: 200 and what is it, 267 acres? That's a lot of acres to clear.00:20:45.000 --> 00:20:55.000Stuart Winchester: What does it look like in there, and what is the… what is the labor lift gonna be like to glade that out and make it so that you don't need 4 feet of snow to ski it?00:20:56.000 --> 00:21:08.000brian norton: Um, we'll talk about snow in a minute, but in terms of glading, you get across the ridgeline, and you get to this… it's not the high point, like, the actual peak of the mountain, but the high point of the ridgeline.00:21:08.000 --> 00:21:23.000brian norton: And you kind of drop in there, and then it just funnels out both directions. And from that point, it's all hardwoods. And it's just… it's really open. You can kind of ski wherever you want. Now, we're gonna manage it slightly better, so there's better waypoint finding, you know, kind of…00:21:23.000 --> 00:21:42.000brian norton: more organized corridors. There's a river, uh, a stream valley that is between what I would call, you know, Black Ridge proper and, like, the North Peak Glades and Walking Boss, um, that you don't want to end up in, so that's kind of the part of the land that, you know, we're going to try to manage away from, and.00:21:42.000 --> 00:21:43.000Stuart Winchester: Mmhm.00:21:42.000 --> 00:21:53.000brian norton: kind of cut that, you know, the extent of it, kind of clear those glades a little more, so that it's obvious, like, no, no, no, I want to go this way, or I want to go that way, so you all come back out to the… to.00:21:48.000 --> 00:21:50.000Stuart Winchester: Mmhm.00:21:53.000 --> 00:21:57.000brian norton: But it's not a heavy lift to cut a lot out there.00:21:53.000 --> 00:21:54.000Stuart Winchester: So I.00:21:57.000 --> 00:22:13.000Stuart Winchester: So as far as snow goes, you mentioned a, a little catcher's mitt and along North Peak, and there are some terrific glades in lower New England. Stratton, I think has really, really excellent glades. Magic Mountain has some excellent glades. They're in a little bit different.00:22:13.000 --> 00:22:33.000Stuart Winchester: snow pocket, obviously, than you are, but also farther south. So, so talk to us, you know, Loon averages 160 inches of snow per year, but I don't know where you measure that, and I know that snow stays on different parts of the mountain in different ways, right? Because you can ski in New Hampshire in June on natural snow at Mount Washington and Tucks.00:22:33.000 --> 00:22:34.000Stuart Winchester: But…00:22:34.000 --> 00:22:39.000Stuart Winchester: That's not the case in most places. So, so talk to us about.00:22:39.000 --> 00:22:48.000Stuart Winchester: the snow in that area, and how often you think you'll realistically be able to offer that glade skiing experience in Black Ridge.00:22:48.000 --> 00:23:06.000brian norton: Yeah, I mean, I think it's gonna be… it's definitely a different experience, so we're gonna have different, um, opening protocols when that part of the mountain will open versus your traditional glade skiing, so it's gonna be a little more raw, a little more rugged, we're gonna be a little more free with opening it. Um, we're working through those kind of details with our patrol team right now.00:23:07.000 --> 00:23:23.000brian norton: Um, in terms of holding snow, predominant northeast wind here, everything cuts across the ski resort as you're looking at it, right to left, and guess what's far left? This, right? So, um, I'll tell you a funny story. We were walking over there with the Forest Service this.00:23:23.000 --> 00:23:25.000brian norton: Spring, and we're walking along the ridgeline.00:23:25.000 --> 00:23:38.000brian norton: And we're contemplating, like, how we get snowmobile access out there for our patrol team to, you know, manage this terrain in a reasonable amount of time to, like, respond to an incident. And we get to these two big boulders.00:23:38.000 --> 00:23:47.000brian norton: like, oh man, how are we gonna get a snowmobile through here? Like, it's… we can't get a machine all the way out here to move these boulders, what are we gonna do? And then it, like.00:23:47.000 --> 00:24:06.000brian norton: I don't remember seeing these boulders in the winter. That means there's 4 feet of snow here on this ridgeline, so it's like… it just… it's not the same as the rest of the ski resort when you think about, like, how that pocket holds snow and takes all the wind-deposited snow from the whole area and just stacks up in there, so it was a bit… it was eye-opening for us to be like.00:23:51.000 --> 00:23:54.000Stuart Winchester: Wow.00:23:57.000 --> 00:23:59.000Stuart Winchester: Right.00:24:06.000 --> 00:24:11.000brian norton: Wait a minute, we don't see these in the winter, and they're 4-foot boulders, so.00:24:11.000 --> 00:24:28.000Stuart Winchester: Oh, man, you're really making me want to get back in there. You know, I did not mention in the intro that Loon is owned by Boyne Resorts, one of the 11 ski areas in the Boyne family. And Boyne has done just a tremendous amount of work over the past decade, putting in new lifts and doing expansions.00:24:28.000 --> 00:24:30.000Stuart Winchester: In fact, I think…00:24:30.000 --> 00:24:42.000Stuart Winchester: the last 5 expansions in New England were all Boyne Mountains. It was Brackett Basin, Burnt Mountain, it was, uh, Merrill Hill at Sunday River, it was the little one you did at Loon the other… the other, uh, couple years ago, and… and.00:24:42.000 --> 00:24:54.000Stuart Winchester: Black Ridge, you know, the one that this most echoes for Sugarloaf fans, and Sugarloaf is far, far, far, far north, but it's worth going to, is… is they opened that several hundred acre.00:24:54.000 --> 00:25:04.000Stuart Winchester: terrain expansion of Brackett Basin back in 2011. They expanded it with Burnt Ridge a few years later, and it's all natural bladed. How much…00:25:04.000 --> 00:25:06.000Stuart Winchester: Did you…00:25:06.000 --> 00:25:21.000Stuart Winchester: did Loon and the team at Loon use Bracket Basin as an inspiration, either… either to see as, like, a proof of concept this'll work, or… or just to imagine a… a different way of, uh… of expanding the resort without necessarily having to spend.00:25:21.000 --> 00:25:28.000Stuart Winchester: you know, $20 million on a new lift. Just talk about it, if there's any relationship there, or, you know, learning how to manage it, etc.00:25:29.000 --> 00:25:51.000brian norton: A lot for me personally, and for the team here. I mean, I'm not the the people that have been out there developing that glade skiing probably aren't necessarily thinking about bracket basin, but 100%. That was the equivalent. That was, you know, I've referred to it through this whole planning process as our version of bracket basin. We've been in communication with the team up there about how they manage it, what their entrance looks like all of those things. So.00:25:30.000 --> 00:25:31.000Stuart Winchester: Yeah.00:25:51.000 --> 00:25:54.000brian norton: Yeah, it's our version of that, 100%.00:25:54.000 --> 00:26:12.000Stuart Winchester: And just from a liability point of view, it's funny, because I grew up in Michigan, and I've been skiing the Boyne Mountains there since the 90s, and I remember you weren't allowed in the trees, and that was a big no-no. So now here you have, fast forward 30 years, and they're developing these enormous glade skiing pockets, and obviously Jay Peak was a leader.00:26:12.000 --> 00:26:17.000Stuart Winchester: our early leader in that, in New England. But what has Boyne learned, do you think.00:26:17.000 --> 00:26:25.000Stuart Winchester: by operating Brackett Basin for the last 15 years, about liability and skiers' abilities to self-manage in terrain like that.00:26:25.000 --> 00:26:36.000brian norton: Yeah, I mean, Sugarloaf, they're Sugarloafers, right? So they're a slightly different clientele than we have here, so I'm sure we'll learn different things. I think the big thing is, you know.00:26:28.000 --> 00:26:30.000Stuart Winchester: Yeah.00:26:36.000 --> 00:26:50.000brian norton: clear messaging, and… and with this project, it's… it's very different. I said it earlier, it's different than the rest of the Glades here, so, um, you gotta know what you're doing, and it's gonna be messaged that way, but it's gonna be managed that way, too, and…00:26:50.000 --> 00:27:06.000brian norton: it's gonna pull people around the resort and move people around to places that, you know, it's a bit of a destination now. Camp 3 in North Peak was already a destination, and now you've got another, you know, 300 acres or so just past there that's serviced by the same portal, so…00:27:06.000 --> 00:27:15.000brian norton: yeah, I think our patrol team's gonna have a little bit of work cut out for them, but frankly, the guys and girls that work for our team that are gonna end up over there, like.00:27:15.000 --> 00:27:18.000brian norton: They… they're looking forward to that, so…00:27:18.000 --> 00:27:22.000Stuart Winchester: Alright, well, let's talk about access a little bit. I'll tell you…00:27:22.000 --> 00:27:39.000Stuart Winchester: That, or the listeners at least, people who haven't been there. So you access this expansion through the North Peak lift. It's a high speed quad built in 2004, 1500 vertical foot, 4,800 foot long. But the view off the top is an absolute showstopper. It's one of the best.00:27:39.000 --> 00:27:49.000Stuart Winchester: in New England. I just love it. Uh, my question for you, Brian, is Flight Path 2030, your… your Loon 2030 plan, essentially 10-year plan, published around 2020.00:27:49.000 --> 00:27:55.000Stuart Winchester: did consider an upgrade for the North Peak lift. Now, it's obviously not a very old lift.00:27:55.000 --> 00:28:10.000Stuart Winchester: But I would imagine that there may be some volume considerations as you look to expand the terrain available off this lift. So, A, am I right in seeing that you will be able to fully lap Black Ridge?00:28:10.000 --> 00:28:17.000Stuart Winchester: on the North Peak lift? And B, do you have thoughts on what might be next for North Peak lift?00:28:17.000 --> 00:28:26.000brian norton: Um, yes, you access it from the top of that lift. The entrance is 150 feet from the top of that lift, maybe, off of Whatcom House.00:28:24.000 --> 00:28:26.000Stuart Winchester: Yeah, thank you.00:28:26.000 --> 00:28:45.000brian norton: the primary exit is slightly lower in elevation than North Peak. You come out onto Brookway Extension there, so if you really wanted to lap it, you'd probably unclick and go down there. More often than not, I think what people will do is they'll ski down Brookway, go up Seven Brothers and a gondola, and get back over there if they want to do it again.00:28:30.000 --> 00:28:32.000Stuart Winchester: Okay.00:28:46.000 --> 00:29:06.000brian norton: So, yeah, I mean, access is pretty strong. In terms of replacing North Peak, yes, that lift is on our planning process. It's probably equivalent to South Peak on any given day, or Lincoln Express, I should say. On any given day, I flip-flop which one's more important. You know, we did the Timbertown expansion, and we thought, oh, these people are over here.00:29:02.000 --> 00:29:03.000Stuart Winchester: Okay.00:29:06.000 --> 00:29:22.000brian norton: maybe we should be focused on this lift, and now we're doing this thing over here, or maybe we should be focused on North Peak, and, um, I'll tell you that the RFID data that we, you know, 3, 4 years ago, we put RFID gates at North Peak, remote up mountain, you can't get to it without passing another gate, and everyone was kind of looking at us, like.00:29:17.000 --> 00:29:19.000Stuart Winchester: Mmhm.00:29:22.000 --> 00:29:29.000brian norton: What are you doing that for? Data collection, 100%. The things we've learned about how people use that terrain have…00:29:25.000 --> 00:29:26.000Stuart Winchester: Right.00:29:29.000 --> 00:29:40.000brian norton: driven our snowmaking philosophy, our investment philosophy. Uh, it's… it's last winter that Lyft opened on day one and closed on day 151, I think it was, so it was open every day of the season, so…00:29:40.000 --> 00:29:45.000brian norton: Maybe today, if you're asking me, that one gets done before Lincoln Express.00:29:44.000 --> 00:29:48.000Stuart Winchester: And are you thinking a six-pack? One of those nice D-lines?00:29:47.000 --> 00:29:51.000brian norton: Yeah, I'm sure that's what it would be at a minimum, yeah.00:29:49.000 --> 00:29:51.000Stuart Winchester: Okay.00:29:51.000 --> 00:29:56.000Stuart Winchester: Okay, do you like the bubbles, like the one you have at CANC and up at Sunday River?00:29:55.000 --> 00:30:17.000brian norton: The bubbles are awesome for all the reasons they're awesome, but there are some hidden challenges with them as well, particularly when they come into the terminal. They're aerodynamic when the chairs are on the line, but when they come into the terminal, if the wind's blowing the wrong way and the bubbles opening and the wind wants to shut it or vice versa.00:29:58.000 --> 00:29:59.000Stuart Winchester: Yeah.00:30:17.000 --> 00:30:26.000brian norton: Uh, there's a little give and take there. I… we'd probably end up with bubbles, I think, but, um, yeah, there are… it's not all… it's not all easy with them.00:30:22.000 --> 00:30:24.000Stuart Winchester: That's that.00:30:25.000 --> 00:30:34.000Stuart Winchester: It's Boyne style, right? I was surprised, actually, when I got out to Brighton, and the, uh… their new Sixer, their D-Line out there does not have bubbles. I was like, oh, this.00:30:27.000 --> 00:30:28.000brian norton: Yep.00:30:33.000 --> 00:30:42.000brian norton: Or footrests, or footrests, which is the only one that I think doesn't have footrests, and as a snowboarder, I appreciated that when I rode that.00:30:34.000 --> 00:30:36.000Stuart Winchester: Yeah.00:30:40.000 --> 00:30:52.000Stuart Winchester: Right, right, right. Yeah, well, the Utah guys don't want to bring the bar down anyway so So, you know, I always think of this expansions like this first, Brian, as a skier.00:30:52.000 --> 00:31:10.000Stuart Winchester: Unless as a customer or as someone, you know, doing a business, I'm really curious. Loon has already historically been the busiest skier in New Hampshire and the pub, the skier visits aren't public anymore. But I would imagine that's still the case. It is busy, busy, busy all the time. It is the idea here.00:31:10.000 --> 00:31:18.000Stuart Winchester: Is it to bring in more skiers, or is it to create more variety at a mountain that…00:31:18.000 --> 00:31:28.000Stuart Winchester: I really think has traditionally had the reputation as a good intermediates family mountain. To maybe start to nudge that a little bit more toward a…00:31:28.000 --> 00:31:40.000Stuart Winchester: uh, more of a Killington profile, where there's… where there's more than one kind of skier? Like, the whole family can have fun there. So is it… is it more skiers, or more terrain for the same amount of skiers to spread them out better?00:31:41.000 --> 00:31:46.000brian norton: Um, both, and I'll clarify more skiers, because, um.00:31:47.000 --> 00:31:58.000brian norton: as the ski resort develops, and as the town develops, we inch closer to destination ski resort instead of day ski resort. I think we're still a day ski resort, but we're working our way towards destination.00:31:54.000 --> 00:31:55.000Stuart Winchester: Mmhm.00:31:58.000 --> 00:32:18.000brian norton: Um, and as you become a destination, your skier visits spread equally over the 7-day week, right? We're heavily skewed to weekends right now. We're not talking about more skiers on the weekends. We're already managing tickets and limiting sales to keep guest experience where we want it. I think we can have more visits mid-week, or early season, late season.00:32:18.000 --> 00:32:33.000brian norton: this will certainly help with that, but on your peak Saturday in January, like, no, we don't… we're… we're not having more skiers here. We're… we're happy with where we're at. Um, in terms of terrain, yeah, I mean, you and I talked about it, I think, the last time we were together talking about glade skiing here.00:32:33.000 --> 00:32:40.000brian norton: We need more of it. Variety of terrain, um, is important, and this is a huge step in the right direction.00:32:39.000 --> 00:32:48.000Stuart Winchester: So I think in New England, when you talk about more skiers, more capacity, reflectively, we think parking, but you have this interesting project going on.00:32:48.000 --> 00:33:05.000Stuart Winchester: Where a pulse gondola is set to leave from near the new Timbertown quad that you put in 2023, go over the river, uh, and land, not exactly in the town of Lincoln, but to service some resorts there. Uh, I thought that project was gonna open.00:33:05.000 --> 00:33:15.000Stuart Winchester: This winter, it doesn't look like that's gonna happen. Tell us about that Pulse Gondola, Brian, what you hope to achieve with it, and kind of where you're at with approvals and permits.00:33:16.000 --> 00:33:33.000brian norton: Um, yeah, me too. I was hoping it was gonna open this winter, too. Um, yeah, we've said with that project all along that we're not really in a rush, and we want to do it right. More importantly, we want to get buy-in from all the current stakeholders, and that's where the project, um, lives. It's a really unique thing where.00:33:34.000 --> 00:33:48.000brian norton: you've got three different parties that are involved, two different completely owned land, uh, landowners, plus Loon being the easement and holders on some of that land, and, um, just working with the town currently and trying to.00:33:48.000 --> 00:34:08.000brian norton: none of us have been through this. I can't think of another example where you've got so many different entities trying to get one project approval. I actually have a planning board meeting tonight, and we're on the docket. So if you're if you're not doing anything at 6 o'clock tonight, feel free to join the zoom. Yeah. So we're we're still working on that. We've gotten essentially approval on one side. And now we're working on the loon side.00:33:56.000 --> 00:33:57.000Stuart Winchester: Okay.00:34:08.000 --> 00:34:23.000brian norton: our hope is that that project still comes through in the next year. It's unique in the sense that it doesn't need to happen, like, for day one of ski season. It can be built during the ski season, because it's not replacing something, it's a true add to the ski resort, so…00:34:21.000 --> 00:34:22.000Stuart Winchester: Right.00:34:23.000 --> 00:34:38.000brian norton: the Daubmeyer team that would do the lift is kind of excited that, you know, they have a project that they can work on out of cycle, keep their team busy year-round, have the electricians there when they'd otherwise, you know, not be doing anything, because the crew's still standing steel somewhere else, that kind of thing.00:34:38.000 --> 00:34:39.000Stuart Winchester: Yeah, okay.00:34:39.000 --> 00:34:44.000Stuart Winchester: Yeah, Boyne's had a lot of success doing those sorts of lifts at Big Sky, and it's amazing what.00:34:44.000 --> 00:34:59.000Stuart Winchester: Even if it's a low capacity, low use lift, like the one and only gondola or the lift that connects to the montage out there in Big Sky, it really gives the skiers a lot of freedom. And I think it really would make a big difference in being able to connect to the town. So let's talk about a lift.00:34:59.000 --> 00:35:01.000Stuart Winchester: That would not be easy.00:35:01.000 --> 00:35:18.000Stuart Winchester: Let's talk about that. Uh, the four passenger gondola you have, I believe it's the last four passenger Gandhi left in the east. It is a monster. This is a 1738 vertical foot lift, 6970.00:35:18.000 --> 00:35:30.000Stuart Winchester: foot long, uh, and recently Loon filed an application with the Forest Service to replace it, so tell us, Brian, what you want to do with the White Mountain Gondola.00:35:30.000 --> 00:35:32.000brian norton: Yeah, so, um…00:35:32.000 --> 00:35:44.000brian norton: a really cool old lift. You probably know better than me, but one of the oldest detachables in New England. It's one of the highest utilized lifts in Boyne's network.00:35:44.000 --> 00:36:00.000brian norton: around this 10-plus months out of the year, you know, between winter and summer. Uh, two years ago, I got a text message from our lift mechanic showing me the hour meeting that was 8675309. Um, it's nearing… it's nearing 100,000 hours now, so yeah, it's due for replacement.00:36:00.000 --> 00:36:10.000brian norton: Um, we filed some paperwork with the Forest Service to get in the queue. We're still working out the details of that project, that's why we haven't really addressed it publicly.00:36:10.000 --> 00:36:23.000brian norton: Try to figure out how it fits, where it goes. It will be a D-line Omega 10, you know, 10-person cabins. Boeing style, as you like to say, you know, we're gonna do it right. It's a pivotal lift for us.00:36:19.000 --> 00:36:20.000Stuart Winchester: Yeah, okay.00:36:23.000 --> 00:36:29.000brian norton: the main base area that opens first and closes last, and, um, yeah, we want to make sure we do it right. So, we will.00:36:29.000 --> 00:36:48.000Stuart Winchester: One detail I thought was really cool in the permit, Brian, was, and obviously I'm not holding you to this, the permit is, you know, the application is the application, but this notion of moving the load terminal, it gets set 100 feet or 80 feet up the hill, away from the Octagon Lodge, I imagine that opens all kinds of possibilities for you.00:36:48.000 --> 00:36:52.000Stuart Winchester: Talk about what you have in mind there and how that would change just the whole flow of Loon.00:36:52.000 --> 00:37:02.000brian norton: Yeah, the problem is that the current lift is inside of a building, and the new one, you know, without tearing the building down, is not going to go inside of the same building, so…00:36:56.000 --> 00:36:57.000Stuart Winchester: Yeah, thank you.00:37:01.000 --> 00:37:03.000Stuart Winchester: Right.00:37:02.000 --> 00:37:21.000brian norton: how do we handle that? And, you know, I'd say there's a couple options on the table. Some of them is, you know, partially modifying that building, putting the lift against it, and or the polar opposite of that is just pushing it into the hillside as far as you can, and, um, you know, using the building for something else, which we have some cool ideas for.00:37:21.000 --> 00:37:36.000brian norton: Um, this lift is gonna need parking. That's a big space constraint that we don't necessarily have. I mean, those cabins aren't small, and you're talking, you know, another Kank 8 size. Probably not that big, but close to Kank 8 size, you know, parking structure to park all the cabins in, and.00:37:36.000 --> 00:37:42.000brian norton: Is parking at the top? Is parking at the bottom? You know, how do we, uh… how does our… if we put it…00:37:42.000 --> 00:37:57.000brian norton: upslope, not in the building, how does our food and beverage team that uses that as their main, you know, mover up the mountain, get food and everything else up, how do they get their food to the Summit Cafe now in the winter? And so, there's a lot of challenges with that, and that's why we haven't, you know.00:37:57.000 --> 00:38:13.000brian norton: really detailed the project, because we're… I mean, just this morning, I was walking out there, driving stakes in the ground, like, trying to visualize, okay, if we did this, how would it work? How would that work? So, yeah, ongoing, um, super exciting project, and I can't wait till we have that nailed down, and we can really start.00:38:13.000 --> 00:38:15.000brian norton: Showing people what we're doing.00:38:14.000 --> 00:38:20.000Stuart Winchester: Yeah, that would be huge, and maybe quiet at the Peanut Gallery, because I know a big storyline.00:38:20.000 --> 00:38:31.000Stuart Winchester: when the cant gate went in was, why'd they do that before the gondola? And I know there's a lot of reasons for that, but… and I love the cant gate, but I'm sure you heard those same narratives. You know.00:38:32.000 --> 00:38:40.000Stuart Winchester: Out with the old, I guess. Quick note, Brian, the little sister, a 1966 Hall double.00:38:40.000 --> 00:38:57.000Stuart Winchester: has taken its last ride. I just made this connection prepping for this podcast. That's actually an original lift from Loon's opening, right? So tell us about Little Sister. It was a small lift, a hall lift, but you took it out this summer. Why was it time to retire Little Sister?00:38:57.000 --> 00:39:01.000Stuart Winchester: And what are you doing with the lift, the chairs, the pieces, the parts?00:39:01.000 --> 00:39:07.000brian norton: Yeah, so, um, Old Lyft, um, couple things. One…00:39:07.000 --> 00:39:10.000brian norton: When we installed Seven Brothers.00:39:10.000 --> 00:39:21.000brian norton: the skiers really stopped using that lift, because… sorry, when we upgraded Seven Brothers Triple to the Seven Brothers Quad, which was the old Kank Quad and got rebuilt.00:39:13.000 --> 00:39:14.000Stuart Winchester: Mmhm.00:39:20.000 --> 00:39:21.000Stuart Winchester: Mmhm.00:39:21.000 --> 00:39:37.000brian norton: the lap time off Seven Brothers was just as quick as Little Sister, but you got more vertical, and we had more uphill PPH. So, um, no one was really using it for skiing. We maintained it for tubing for a while, we got out of the tubing business.00:39:37.000 --> 00:39:56.000brian norton: Um, we'll maybe be back in the tubing business in the future, but not in that location. So, um, at the same time, it needed some maintenance work. Our friends at Cypress, one of the other Boyne properties, um, needed some spare parts to one of their lifts. We had them in the drive here at Little Sister, so…00:39:56.000 --> 00:40:13.000brian norton: Um, plus, in a base area that's crammed for space, when that thing eventually, you know, physically moves away, it'll be additional space, it'll open up skiing possibilities, it'll open up more space for our seasonal programs that are in that base area, or that part of the base area over there. Uh, in terms of what we're doing with the lift.00:40:13.000 --> 00:40:30.000brian norton: Um, towers are still standing right now, the terminals are still standing, we'll hopefully get that down next summer. The chairs were all auctioned off recently, we sold a few to employees, like myself, I bought one, I'll have that hanging on my porch at my house.00:40:26.000 --> 00:40:27.000Stuart Winchester: Nice.00:40:30.000 --> 00:40:44.000brian norton: Um, the rest of… I think we sold… there was 20, or there was 31 chairs… 30 or 31 chairs, and um, we sold some to employees. We're keeping 5 for spare parts, maybe future auction-type stuff. The rest of them…00:40:44.000 --> 00:40:50.000brian norton: were auctioned off to the public, and they're benefiting two incredible local charities, one, the Pemi Valley.00:40:51.000 --> 00:41:07.000brian norton: Uh, Upper Pemi Valley Historical Society, um, who's, you know, I saw some really cool historic stuff, check out their Instagram feed, there's some cool stuff about the Riverwalk Gondola, and then they just put a couple posts. Um, and then, uh, Lincoln Friends Iraq, which, you know, one of our purposes is making sure.00:40:57.000 --> 00:40:59.000Stuart Winchester: Yeah. Okay.00:41:07.000 --> 00:41:15.000brian norton: That we're connected to the community and doing everything we can for the youth of the community, and so that's what we're doing with the money, and we're proud to say that.00:41:15.000 --> 00:41:30.000Stuart Winchester: So don't go looking for Little Sister Lift this year. It is gone. That leaves you with one haul lift, a 1968 East Basin. I didn't see a map for that gondola proposal. Brian, is part of that proposal removing that East Basin haul lift?00:41:18.000 --> 00:41:20.000brian norton: And it's gone.00:41:31.000 --> 00:41:39.000brian norton: I started at East Basin and as long as I'm here, East Basin will, you know, I shouldn't say that. And maybe it'll go away, but it's not going away as part of.00:41:33.000 --> 00:41:34.000Stuart Winchester: Okay.00:41:34.000 --> 00:41:37.000Stuart Winchester: Okay, I love it.00:41:39.000 --> 00:41:55.000Stuart Winchester: Love that. All right, Brian, hey, I really appreciate you joining us today on the New Look Pod. You're my second guest ever, and I really want to make this timely, so the fact that we could talk about this new expansion at Loon is awesome, and I hope I can be up there on opening day.00:41:55.000 --> 00:41:57.000Stuart Winchester: And I hope that's next winter.00:41:57.000 --> 00:42:00.000brian norton: Yeah, and I hope to get out there on Black Ridge with you.00:42:00.000 --> 00:42:04.000Stuart Winchester: Yeah, yeah, definitely. Well, good luck at your planning board meeting tonight, Brian. Talk to you.00:42:04.000 --> 00:42:05.000brian norton: All right. Thanks, Stuart.00:42:04.000 --> 00:42:06.000Stuart Winchester: Thanks so much. Bye.00:42:05.000 --> 00:42:06.000brian norton: Bye.00:42:08.000 --> 00:42:10.000Stuart Winchester: All right, so…00:42:11.000 --> 00:42:17.000Stuart Winchester: That is Brian Norton, President and General Manager of Loon Mountain.00:42:17.000 --> 00:42:25.000Stuart Winchester: Before we move on to the closing segment, I want to tell you about my friends at Profile Search International.00:42:25.000 --> 00:42:31.000Stuart Winchester: A lot of you come to this podcast to hear from the best minds in skiing, guys like Brian Norton.00:42:31.000 --> 00:42:41.000Stuart Winchester: Managing mountains that are making big moves like Loon. But, what if you want to find one of these great leaders for your own mountain team? Brian is pretty happily employed.00:42:41.000 --> 00:42:46.000Stuart Winchester: I'd like to introduce you to the folks at Profile Search International.00:42:46.000 --> 00:42:59.000Stuart Winchester: Profile Search are ski industry talent acquisition experts, and they are the only executive search and recruitment firm in the world that is 100% focused on the ski industry.00:42:59.000 --> 00:43:05.000Stuart Winchester: ProfileSearch has used their intimate understanding of skiing and related industries.00:43:05.000 --> 00:43:14.000Stuart Winchester: and of available candidates worldwide to place hundreds of transformational leaders at the best and most progressive ski areas over the past 30 years.00:43:14.000 --> 00:43:21.000Stuart Winchester: With offices in the US and Canada, they find and negotiate with the right leaders for your team.00:43:21.000 --> 00:43:33.000Stuart Winchester: You can reach out to Profile Search directly at profilesearch.com, or contact them by email or phone, or send me a note, and I will connect you directly with this expert team.00:43:33.000 --> 00:43:40.000Stuart Winchester: Alright, I'm really looking forward to this next segment. As promised, I am going to use this segment.00:43:40.000 --> 00:43:52.000Stuart Winchester: to read reaction to the previous podcast. I'm not at a point where I can do the podcast live, maybe someday, but right now, we are…00:43:52.000 --> 00:44:08.000Stuart Winchester: Read and react the next day. So, uh, the way that you can interact with the podcast is to make a comment on the article that accompanies this podcast on stormskeeting.com. Only paid subscribers can do that.00:44:08.000 --> 00:44:23.000Stuart Winchester: You can upgrade to the paid tier of the storm, which is the very best way to support the product@stormskiing.com. That will get you 100% of the content below the paywall, and it will also allow you to interact with the podcast, but.00:44:23.000 --> 00:44:31.000Stuart Winchester: everyone can listen to the podcast. The podcast has always been for everyone, and my intent is to keep it that way. So…00:44:31.000 --> 00:44:40.000Stuart Winchester: Some reaction to yesterday, and a lot of this is just reacting to… So yesterday, as a reminder, Joe Hessian came on, talked about…00:44:40.000 --> 00:44:43.000Stuart Winchester: The Snow Pass, uh, talked about…00:44:43.000 --> 00:44:51.000Stuart Winchester: Indy Pass and Snow Pass, both claiming Snow King and the confusion around that.00:44:51.000 --> 00:45:00.000Stuart Winchester: Uh, and I talked a little bit about, just in general, uh, the Indy Pass and the fact that smugglers not to join. So…00:45:00.000 --> 00:45:14.000Stuart Winchester: Reading the comments from top to bottom. And again, these are all paid subscribers, so thank you very much, and a lot of these folks I have been in dialogue with for years, so they're not necessarily new to me, but perhaps new to the community.00:45:14.000 --> 00:45:17.000Stuart Winchester: Starting with Peter Schlachtes.00:45:17.000 --> 00:45:21.000Stuart Winchester: So, just under an hour, in the short format?00:45:21.000 --> 00:45:27.000Stuart Winchester: I liked it. I had heard the backstory on Hessian and didn't need to hear it again.00:45:27.000 --> 00:45:30.000Stuart Winchester: It focused on the compelling stuff.00:45:30.000 --> 00:45:44.000Stuart Winchester: But remember that your growing audience, I hope, consists over time of more and more people who won't have heard or remember that context and texture and won't necessarily seek it out on an old podcast that features your speaker.00:45:44.000 --> 00:45:59.000Stuart Winchester: By the way, though, you really must make a point of steering people to relevant past podcasts that provide the backstory on guests and mountains you cover in the new format. Mention it, flash it on the screen, put it in a subtext, and leave it there, because people won't know they're interested in learning more until…00:45:59.000 --> 00:46:00.000Stuart Winchester: They are.00:46:00.000 --> 00:46:08.000Stuart Winchester: Yes, Peter, I appreciate the short comment, and short has never been my…00:46:08.000 --> 00:46:25.000Stuart Winchester: Strength. So expect some experimentation. Uh, expect me to play around with this a little bit. Expect some episodes to be longer than others. I truly will try to get some bite size episodes out there, but I, I find that the podcasts that I listen to that are news focused are usually right around an hour and.00:46:25.000 --> 00:46:34.000Stuart Winchester: And I don't run out of steam with that, as long as what they're talking about is interesting to me. As far as your point about linking to past podcasts, look.00:46:35.000 --> 00:46:38.000Stuart Winchester: One of the reasons that…00:46:38.000 --> 00:46:42.000Stuart Winchester: I had to move to a different podcast format.00:46:42.000 --> 00:46:43.000Stuart Winchester: Was that…00:46:43.000 --> 00:47:03.000Stuart Winchester: the old podcast was becoming too laborious, and part of the reason was I was too concerned with building a big story around it, and making sure that everything I mentioned had some context that a reader could go back to. And what that… and it was great, and a lot of people appreciated that, and again, I'll still do some long-form product…00:47:03.000 --> 00:47:17.000Stuart Winchester: Podcasts and I'm still doing plenty of writing, but it actually gummed things up to the point where I was just not making as many podcasts as I should be. So my goal here with the new short format podcast, keep it light, keep it moving.00:47:18.000 --> 00:47:33.000Stuart Winchester: The trend is toward search, right? So with all the AI tools and everything available, it's pretty easy to find my old podcast. I do have a master list that I linked to from the homepage, uh, and, and.00:47:33.000 --> 00:47:38.000Stuart Winchester: As much as I agree with you, it would be nice, I think that most people…00:47:38.000 --> 00:47:50.000Stuart Winchester: will just Google Joe Hessian Storm Skiing Podcast, and it will pop right up. But, we'll see how it evolves. Next comment from Mimi Ma, another long-time paid subscriber. Shout out to Mimi.00:47:50.000 --> 00:47:57.000Stuart Winchester: Like the format, especially good that I can skim read if needed, and then jump to the sections of interest. Keep up the good work. I want to make that point.00:47:57.000 --> 00:48:09.000Stuart Winchester: there is a transcript for every single episode. You can click on the transcript, and when you're reading it, you click to any section, and it will go to that section of the podcast, if you're on Substack.00:48:09.000 --> 00:48:22.000Stuart Winchester: If you're on YouTube, you won't have that capability, so you can always check out the video version on Substack. Again, if you're listening via audio on Apple or Spotify or something, you also won't have that. So, go to stormskiing.com to get that capability.00:48:22.000 --> 00:48:36.000Stuart Winchester: Comment from Robert. Quote, I think Joe's comment about Eric self-describing himself as the, quote, anti-collaborator, and I'm curious to hear what his, Eric's, answer is.00:48:36.000 --> 00:48:39.000Stuart Winchester: To what is apparently a self-reference.00:48:39.000 --> 00:48:58.000Stuart Winchester: I don't see how you can't be anti collaborative and run a ski area, not to mention operating what is effectively a business to business service business and to Benny and the need to work with all their customers. What's the business justification for not wanting to collaborate outside the sphere he controls?00:48:58.000 --> 00:49:14.000Stuart Winchester: The ski Cooper thing was a bit different in many ways. Here we're talking about two third party systems meant to drive skier visits, and at least at the moment, given the portfolios, I think it is a relatively small percentage of skiers that are most likely choosing between the snow pass and Indy.00:49:14.000 --> 00:49:27.000Stuart Winchester: Most of them, I would assume, are likely NYC Metro-based. Good stuff on the new format. Looking forward to its evolution. Look, Joe was referencing a conversation that he had with Eric. It wasn't…00:49:27.000 --> 00:49:39.000Stuart Winchester: a publicly available conversation, so this is why I'm going to get Eric on the podcast tomorrow, to give his reaction to it. I… you know, Eric, from my point of view.00:49:39.000 --> 00:49:55.000Stuart Winchester: Look at the explosive growth of IndiePass under his tenure, right? He's, he purchased the pass, I believe in 2023, and, and I believe the number of partners, and I can double check this, uh, has more than tripled since Eric took it over, and he's really done a phenomenal job.00:49:56.000 --> 00:50:08.000Stuart Winchester: transforming Black Mountain and 10x-ing revenue at a ski area, which is simply unheard of in the ski business, and making it to Benny, which is a platform that people use.00:50:08.000 --> 00:50:19.000Stuart Winchester: As with any person doing a lot of things, Eric sometimes runs into controversies, but that's what this podcast.00:50:19.000 --> 00:50:34.000Stuart Winchester: Is here for is to give folks an opportunity to air their sides of the stories. Uh, I have a lot of respect for Joe and for Eric, and I think they're both doing really cool things in the ski industry. So, so we'll, we'll see. We'll see what Eric's.00:50:34.000 --> 00:50:51.000Stuart Winchester: answer is to that. From Scott Abraham, another long-time reader, I presume your hair is still standing out from being present at the Hail Mary. Quack, he's a Ducks fan. Alright, Scott, I'm gonna move right past that one. Eric Morris, great new format. You've written great stuff on walkable ski areas. How did you develop those thoughts?00:50:51.000 --> 00:51:00.000Stuart Winchester: Are you aware of strong towns? Are you aware of the Congress of New Urbanism? Eric, thank you. Yes, that is a running theme.00:51:00.000 --> 00:51:03.000Stuart Winchester: We threw out the storm.00:51:03.000 --> 00:51:19.000Stuart Winchester: I'll say this. There's a reason I live in New York City, and it's not because I think it's the greatest place in the world. It's because I value living in a walkable community. I value a pedestrian environment. I like that I don't need to get in my car.00:51:19.000 --> 00:51:26.000Stuart Winchester: Every time I need to go to the grocery store to get a box of pancakes. And New York City offers a really.00:51:26.000 --> 00:51:30.000Stuart Winchester: Great environment for that sort of lifestyle.00:51:30.000 --> 00:51:32.000Stuart Winchester: Uh, and when you travel around Europe.00:51:32.000 --> 00:51:45.000Stuart Winchester: those sorts of communities are everywhere, including in the ski towns. And our ski areas, being developed post-World War II, were mostly developed as most of America was at the time, which is around the automobile.00:51:45.000 --> 00:51:47.000Stuart Winchester: And…00:51:47.000 --> 00:51:49.000Stuart Winchester: I don't think that…00:51:49.000 --> 00:52:04.000Stuart Winchester: Car-centric mountain towns are necessarily the best way to evolve our towns into the future. So I think there's a rethinking in order. And yes, I am familiar with the schools of new urbanism and read frequently.00:52:04.000 --> 00:52:09.000Stuart Winchester: I'm not claiming these are ideas I'm coming up with mysel

Owners of Loon Liquors Mark Schiller and Simeon Rossi discuss business, special offerings during Defeat of Jesse James Days, and more. 

Welcome to the Storm's short-form, news-focused podcast. Don't worry, I will still write newsletters too. To browse a podcast transcript, click the “transcript” button above - click on any block of text and the audio will jump to that point in the conversation. Paid subscribers can leave a comment below - I'll respond to some in the next episode. Thank you for supporting independent ski journalism./:The Zoom transcript (click “transcript” above for the Substack transcript, which will zoom to any point in the video when you click on the associated text block; timestamps below DO NOT MATCH THE VIDEO)00:01:51.000 --> 00:02:02.000Stuart Winchester: Welcome to the Storm! It is September 8th, 2026, and if you are a Storm regular, you are probably wondering what in the heck is going on here.00:02:02.000 --> 00:02:09.000Stuart Winchester: Today, we are launching an all-new format for the Storm Skiing Podcast.00:02:09.000 --> 00:02:22.000Stuart Winchester: It is shorter, it is news-focused, it will be more frequent, and it will publish the same day that I record it in just about every instance.00:02:22.000 --> 00:02:23.000Stuart Winchester: So.00:02:24.000 --> 00:02:28.000Stuart Winchester: It's gonna have a lot of different elements. Uh, takes just…00:02:28.000 --> 00:02:31.000Stuart Winchester: on whatever's happening in the news.00:02:32.000 --> 00:02:34.000Stuart Winchester: Okay, let's scrap that and let's start again.00:02:38.000 --> 00:02:41.000Stuart Winchester: Okay, starting from the top.00:02:41.000 --> 00:02:42.000Stuart Winchester: 3.00:02:42.000 --> 00:02:44.000Stuart Winchester: Q.00:02:44.000 --> 00:02:45.000Stuart Winchester: One.00:02:45.000 --> 00:02:59.000Stuart Winchester: Welcome to the Storm! I'm your host, Stuart Winchester. It is September 8th, 2026, and I would like to welcome you all to a brand new version of the Storm Skiing Podcast.00:02:59.000 --> 00:03:02.000Stuart Winchester: So, the long-form podcast…00:03:02.000 --> 00:03:09.000Stuart Winchester: has been the default of the Storm Skiing Podcast since I launched in 2019.00:03:09.000 --> 00:03:12.000Stuart Winchester: Very proud of the Storm Skiing podcast.00:03:12.000 --> 00:03:16.000Stuart Winchester: We're at episode 227.00:03:16.000 --> 00:03:26.000Stuart Winchester: I have interviewed the leaders of nearly every large ski area in America, and the leaders of most of the large ski companies in America.00:03:26.000 --> 00:03:29.000Stuart Winchester: But something started to feel a little bit off.00:03:29.000 --> 00:03:35.000Stuart Winchester: And, you know, I started to think about the kind of podcasts that I consume.00:03:35.000 --> 00:03:44.000Stuart Winchester: And those are mostly, frankly, around Michigan football, uh, which is my other obsession besides ski-ski-ski-ski-ski-ski-ski-ski-s.00:03:44.000 --> 00:04:02.000Stuart Winchester: tend to be much more news-focused. They tend to be much shorter than the Storm Skiing Podcast. They tend to publish the same day that they record them, and they tend to break down current events. For example, I just went to a Michigan football game.00:04:02.000 --> 00:04:21.000Stuart Winchester: on Saturday in Ann Arbor. If you're even remotely a sports fan, you probably saw the controversial ending to that game when Michigan got an extra second added on, and Bryce Underwood, the quarterback, tossed a Hail Mary to win the game when JJ Buchanan, our transfer receiver, came down with the ball.00:04:21.000 --> 00:04:36.000Stuart Winchester: That's never happened in the history of Michigan football, to have a Hail Mary ending that Michigan wins. So, on the way home, it's a 10-hour drive back to New York, my wife and I listened to all the different Michigan podcasts that were breaking down that moment. And I realized that…00:04:36.000 --> 00:04:54.000Stuart Winchester: as much as I like the Storm Skiing Podcast, and as much as a lot of other people like it, I was not really making the kind of podcast that I actually listen to. And that's a problem, because in our current media environment, people have a lot of choice.00:04:54.000 --> 00:04:58.000Stuart Winchester: They have a lot of of.00:04:58.000 --> 00:05:13.000Stuart Winchester: different things they can give their attention to, and it's hard to get and keep their attention. So, I want to say right off, I am not killing the long-form storm skiing podcast. It will not end with episode 227. In fact, I have about 5 or 6 in the can that I've been sitting on.00:05:13.000 --> 00:05:30.000Stuart Winchester: for this news, and I will release those soon, and my thanks to the folks who participated in those podcasts for their everlasting patience as I got this together. So, I'm still gonna make the Storm Skiing Podcast. The frequency will go from about 45 a year at its peak.00:05:30.000 --> 00:05:47.000Stuart Winchester: It's probably about a dozen a year or so, and sometimes there will just be a time when the long form is the more appropriate form for telling the story of a mountain. If I have someone new on, for example, so for example, I've never had.00:05:47.000 --> 00:06:02.000Stuart Winchester: Uh, the GM or owner of Sierra at Tahoe in California, an important mountain on the podcast. Never had Wolf Creek on the podcast, never had Mount Baker. If I were to get one of those folks, I would want to do a long form, tell the story of the ski area. But it's not always necessary to.00:06:02.000 --> 00:06:18.000Stuart Winchester: Tell the entire story of the ski area and its history and its culture when you just want to talk about a new lift or you just want to talk about the fact that it joined a new pass. So this shorter podcast will be more frequent.00:06:18.000 --> 00:06:35.000Stuart Winchester: It will have different segments, segments with takes when I just talk about what's going on. It will still have interviews, much shorter interviews. Today we have an interview with an awesome guest, Snow Partner CEO Joe Heschen, one of the smartest guys in skiing.00:06:35.000 --> 00:06:45.000Stuart Winchester: But before, Joe and I went on for two hours. This time, we'll be able to condense it down. And then at the end of each episode, my intent.00:06:45.000 --> 00:07:02.000Stuart Winchester: and hope is to have reader interaction, and this will be a feature available only to paid supporters of the Storm Skiing Journal and Podcast, and you can upgrade to a paid subscription at stormskiing.com anytime. The podcast will be for everyone, as it's always been.00:07:02.000 --> 00:07:18.000Stuart Winchester: But only paid subscribers will be able to interact with the podcast. And the way that they will be able to do that is that they will be able to write a comment on the article that accompanies the newsletter on stormskiing.com.00:07:18.000 --> 00:07:32.000Stuart Winchester: And the next day, I will read some of those comments and react to them as appropriate. And I'll talk a little bit more about that later and why I'm doing it that way. But for now, I want to assure you.00:07:32.000 --> 00:07:48.000Stuart Winchester: This podcast is going to come to you the same way your podcasts always have. Now, there is a video version. You can watch that on YouTube, will be our primary channel, as well as Substack, which is where the newsletter is published. There will always, always, always be an audio version.00:07:48.000 --> 00:07:58.000Stuart Winchester: And it will always come to the same places that you have always gotten the podcast. If that's Apple, if that's Spotify, there's some that I don't even know.00:07:58.000 --> 00:08:11.000Stuart Winchester: how the podcast got on there, or why it's on there. There's an RSS feed that spits this out from Substack. That will not change. The storm will be… when you go looking for it, you're going to find the storm.00:08:12.000 --> 00:08:13.000Stuart Winchester: So.00:08:13.000 --> 00:08:24.000Stuart Winchester: This is something I'm super excited about because I think it will allow me to have a lot more guests a lot more often.00:08:24.000 --> 00:08:35.000Stuart Winchester: there are so many great minds in skiing right now, and I feel like there's a lot of negative sentiment around skiing and the way it's evolving. There's a lot of talk of a duopoly.00:08:35.000 --> 00:08:39.000Stuart Winchester: But from my point of view.00:08:39.000 --> 00:08:54.000Stuart Winchester: there's not a duopoly in a way that is dominating all consumer choice. And the reason I have that point of view is I'm having conversations every single day with smart people.00:08:54.000 --> 00:09:10.000Stuart Winchester: thinking far ahead and doing great things to change skiing in ways that make skiing better, that make skiing access better. People like Joe Hesham, my guest today, people like Eric Mogenson, who runs the Indy Pass, people like John Schaefer, who runs a handful of mountains.00:09:10.000 --> 00:09:28.000Stuart Winchester: in the East, people like Rick Schmitz, who runs three ski areas in the Midwest. Small ski area operators like Tim Meyer at Caber Fay in Michigan, who we'll talk about a little bit later. So, I'm talking to these people all the time, and I'm seeing the independent ski areas are really, for the most part, doing fine. I'm seeing.00:09:28.000 --> 00:09:33.000Stuart Winchester: Huge investment. I'm seeing huge innovation and.00:09:33.000 --> 00:09:43.000Stuart Winchester: Because of the frequency of the podcast, and because of the laborious nature of turning interviews into written content.00:09:43.000 --> 00:10:00.000Stuart Winchester: I don't think that I'm getting that to you in the way that I would like, in, in, in the way that you deserve. I want you to be part of this conversation. I want you to see why I'm so optimistic about skiing right now. I want you to know why I feel that skiing is in its best.00:10:00.000 --> 00:10:05.000Stuart Winchester: place, historically, that it has ever been, at least in America.00:10:05.000 --> 00:10:10.000Stuart Winchester: Now, it certainly has problems, and we will get into those as well.00:10:10.000 --> 00:10:21.000Stuart Winchester: I don't answer to anyone. I don't answer to the operators. I don't have a boss. I answer to my subscribers, and that's it. The only thing I care about is the truth.00:10:21.000 --> 00:10:28.000Stuart Winchester: Uh, and my optimism does not come from any desire to have access or anything else. My… my…00:10:28.000 --> 00:10:31.000Stuart Winchester: My content and my commitment to the truth.00:10:31.000 --> 00:10:50.000Stuart Winchester: comes from wanting to deliver a great journalistic product. Uh, and there's gonna be opinion and analysis. You're not always going to agree with what I say, and that's good! I wanna remind people that. That's good. If you agree with everything I say, I have no value. I can tell you that all of my guests.00:10:50.000 --> 00:10:54.000Stuart Winchester: disagree with things I say, but the reason they keep coming back.00:10:54.000 --> 00:11:03.000Stuart Winchester: And the reason that I hope they will keep coming back is because I'm trying to be fair, I'm trying to work within the bounds of the truth, and I'm not…00:11:03.000 --> 00:11:08.000Stuart Winchester: Jumping to these huge accusatory.00:11:08.000 --> 00:11:25.000Stuart Winchester: narratives that we see so often with the Mega Passes and with the big consolidators, Vale and Altera. So, I want to give a different perspective, I want to give it more frequently. The newsletter, one more point, the newsletter will stay the same. There will always be written content.00:11:25.000 --> 00:11:34.000Stuart Winchester: I am still a writer with a podcast, not a podcaster with a newsletter, though I kind of have to admit at this point that I am.00:11:34.000 --> 00:11:42.000Stuart Winchester: a podcaster, even though that sounds… I don't know, it sounds a little… pretentious, or juvenile, or uh… like I'm…00:11:42.000 --> 00:11:58.000Stuart Winchester: you know, doing this as a side hustle while I drive for Uber, but… but no, this is my full-time job. The Storm is and has been my full-time job for a couple of years. Now, the reason I want to switch to a news-based podcast is for days like today, because today we have.00:11:58.000 --> 00:12:00.000Stuart Winchester: Huge news.00:12:00.000 --> 00:12:04.000Stuart Winchester: One of my favorite ski areas.00:12:04.000 --> 00:12:09.000Stuart Winchester: One of the best ski areas in the eastern United States.00:12:09.000 --> 00:12:14.000Stuart Winchester: Uh, depending on your point of view, maybe one of the best ski areas in the United States.00:12:15.000 --> 00:12:20.000Stuart Winchester: is joining a Malta Mountain Pass for the first time.00:12:20.000 --> 00:12:27.000Stuart Winchester: That is Smuggler's Notch, Vermont. Smuggs is an incredible place.00:12:27.000 --> 00:12:40.000Stuart Winchester: For a lot of reasons. Number one, if you don't live in the East, and you're under the impression that the East is an ice ball, and the vertical drops are short, and the mountains are small.00:12:41.000 --> 00:12:56.000Stuart Winchester: You're wrong. You're just wrong. And there is a snow. There's plenty of big mountains in the east. First of all, there's plenty of good snow pockets in the east. One of the best snow pockets is in northern Vermont, and you have a line of resorts.00:12:56.000 --> 00:13:12.000Stuart Winchester: We call it the spine of the Green Mountains. Starts at Killington Pico, goes up to Sugarbush, which is in Alterra Mountain. Right next door is Mad River Glen, the famous Indy with the single chair. North of that is Bolton Valley, which is on Indy Pass. North of that is Stowe, which is owned by V.00:13:12.000 --> 00:13:23.000Stuart Winchester: On the backside of Stowe is Smuggler's Notch, and then north of that is Jay Peak. Smuggler's Notch joins IndyPass today, and here are the stats.00:13:23.000 --> 00:13:39.000Stuart Winchester: It is a 2610 foot vertical drop that is the fourth tallest in the east. It has one smug says 1060 skiable acres that they claim there's actually more in the woods. If you count the back bowls and some of the secret stashes.00:13:39.000 --> 00:13:54.000Stuart Winchester: Off of the Sterling lift. So that makes it the fourth largest ski area in the east. It is the second snowiest ski area in the east after Jay Peak, which is also an IndyPass partner with 322in of snowfall.00:13:54.000 --> 00:14:10.000Stuart Winchester: On average per winter. Yes, that's a lot. That's those are Vail numbers. Those are Colorado numbers. No, it's not Cottonwoods, but it's deep enough that those ski areas almost always have tree skiing from the beginning.00:14:10.000 --> 00:14:22.000Stuart Winchester: from around Christmas through the end of the season. I've skied Glades at Stowe in April many times. I've done the same at Jay Peak. So, the snow coverage really.00:14:22.000 --> 00:14:38.000Stuart Winchester: comes and it really falls. Mount Mansfield, which is where Stowe is, right next to Smuggs, is the tallest mountain in Vermont, and they have a snow stake there that consistently builds up to around 60 inches or so for the season. So, Smuggs joins Indy Pass.00:14:38.000 --> 00:14:56.000Stuart Winchester: today. It is the… and, and, and, and… No Blackouts on Indie Bass Pass, which goes on sale today to the general public, or actually maybe tomorrow it goes on sale, for… $419.00:14:56.000 --> 00:14:57.000Stuart Winchester: The ND…00:14:57.000 --> 00:15:13.000Stuart Winchester: Plus is 469. So I'll give you a few stats here. So Indy with adding smugs, that is the 43rd Alpine lift serve ski area that Indy has added for the 2026 to 2027.00:15:13.000 --> 00:15:14.000Stuart Winchester: Winter.00:15:14.000 --> 00:15:30.000Stuart Winchester: That gives them a total. Now, my totals are going to be a little different than Indy's because they're counting cross-country ski areas. And I'm leaving those off. And I also count sometimes two ski areas, as one when they're when they're separate entities. But but they share days.00:15:30.000 --> 00:15:45.000Stuart Winchester: So Indy now has 256 ski areas, lift-served alpine downhill ski areas, which get two days each. So they have more than you could possibly use. That includes 148 ski areas in the United States.00:15:45.000 --> 00:15:57.000Stuart Winchester: 32 in Canada, 39 in Europe, and 32 in Japan. You can ski 30% of all ski areas in America on Indy.00:15:57.000 --> 00:16:14.000Stuart Winchester: Now, on the flip side, Indy also had some important losses this winter. They lost, and they're all in the Midwest, and Indy's lost mountains before, and with a roster that big, you're gonna have some turnover. Uh, but the first wave of losses came back.00:16:14.000 --> 00:16:24.000Stuart Winchester: in past release season in March, when the three areas owned by Midwest Family Ski Resorts, some of the best operators in the country, uh, they own Lutzen Mountain in Minnesota.00:16:24.000 --> 00:16:39.000Stuart Winchester: one of the largest ski areas in the Midwest, uh, Granite Peak in Wisconsin, which has 3 high-speed lifts, and Snow River, which is really 2 side-by-side ski areas and a nice snow belt in Michigan's Upper Peninsula. They left for Icon Pass.00:16:39.000 --> 00:16:53.000Stuart Winchester: Now, there's a little bit of a historical precedent there, because those three ski areas had been on the Max Pass, which had been the immediate predecessor, along with the Rocky Mountain Super Pass, to the Icon Pass. Uh, the…00:16:53.000 --> 00:17:10.000Stuart Winchester: Icon Pass, when it debuted in 2018, left off Snow River, Granite Peak, and Lutzen. And I always thought, well, Snow River wasn't a part of Midwest Family at the time, but I always thought that was a mistake. So I'm not surprised to see them go, but those were big drivers of Indy Pass sales.00:17:10.000 --> 00:17:16.000Stuart Winchester: Because those are marquee mountains in the Midwest. They also recently lost…00:17:16.000 --> 00:17:34.000Stuart Winchester: Another three mountains run by another great operator in Wisconsin, Little Switzerland, Crystal Ridge, and Nordic Mountain. Now, these are small ski areas. They're feeder ski areas, but they're important ski areas because Rick is a very smart guy. He's very influential.00:17:34.000 --> 00:17:50.000Stuart Winchester: And he has a lot of influence in the ski business, including being part of the board of directors of the National Skiers Association. Everyone respects him. They also lost Cabar Fay, one of my favorite mountains in Michigan. It was my pseudo-home mountain when I lived in Michigan as a teenager.00:17:50.000 --> 00:17:57.000Stuart Winchester: I have a lot of respect for Tim and Pete Meyer, who run that over there. So, I'll talk a little bit more…00:17:57.000 --> 00:18:10.000Stuart Winchester: about that with Joe, because I think there's going to be some crossover with the snow pass. So, quickly, before we get to our guest, I want to tell you about Profile Search International.00:18:10.000 --> 00:18:15.000Stuart Winchester: A lot of you come to this podcast to hear from the best minds in skiing.00:18:15.000 --> 00:18:20.000Stuart Winchester: But what if you want to find one of these great leaders for your own mountain team?00:18:20.000 --> 00:18:35.000Stuart Winchester: Well, let me introduce you to the folks at Profile Search International. They are the ski industry talent acquisition experts, and are the only executive search and recruitment firm in the world that is 100% focused on the ski industry.00:18:35.000 --> 00:18:48.000Stuart Winchester: They have used their intimate understanding of skiing and related industries and available candidates worldwide to place hundreds of transformational leaders at the best and most progressive ski areas over the past 30 years.00:18:48.000 --> 00:19:04.000Stuart Winchester: With offices in the US and Canada, Profile Search finds and negotiates with the right leaders for your team. You can reach out to them directly at profilesearch.com or contact them by email or phone, or send me a note and I will connect you directly with their expert team.00:19:06.000 --> 00:19:08.000Stuart Winchester: Okay.00:19:08.000 --> 00:19:11.000Stuart Winchester: We are joined.00:19:11.000 --> 00:19:13.000Stuart Winchester: As soon as we get a video.00:19:13.000 --> 00:19:33.000Stuart Winchester: We are joined today by the founder and CEO of Snow Partners, which owns and operates the Mountain Creek Outdoor Ski Area and the Big Snow American Dream Indoor Ski Areas in New Jersey. Snow Partners' terrain-based learning program has been used by more than 80 ski resorts worldwide.00:19:33.000 --> 00:19:50.000Stuart Winchester: And the company has rolled out its SnowCloud all-in-one resort management software with at least 15 clients, including Jackson Hole, Wyoming. Last year, the company launched the Snow Triple Play Pass, which was good for 3 days, total across 16 ski areas in eastern North America.00:19:50.000 --> 00:20:01.000Stuart Winchester: Ahead of Winter 2026-27, Triple Play adds 7 additional mountains, for a total of 23, at a price of $179.00:20:01.000 --> 00:20:18.000Stuart Winchester: Snow Partners has also launched the Snow Pass, which is loaded with two days each at 14 ski areas for $339.99. My guest to break all this down for us today is a good friend of the Storm Skiing Podcast, Joe Heschen. Joe, welcome back to the storm. Always good to track you down.00:20:17.000 --> 00:20:18.000Joe Hession: Thanks.00:20:18.000 --> 00:20:21.000Stuart Winchester: How are you feeling on Snow Pass launch day?00:20:21.000 --> 00:20:36.000Joe Hession: You know, it's launch day for Snow Pass. It's launch day for Mountain Creek Seasons Passes. So winter's in the air. Things are happening. It's really exciting. This is probably my favorite time of year. So thanks for having me on such a special day. Winter's coming.00:20:34.000 --> 00:20:36.000Stuart Winchester: I'll do it.00:20:36.000 --> 00:20:53.000Stuart Winchester: Yeah, and it's the first day of the new platform for the Storm. So I wanted to get you on first. I'll admit, I want to do a little bit of a flex because I know you're a hard guy to track down and you're doing a lot of cool, interesting things. I want to start with the Snowpass, Joe, because you came on the podcast last year to talk about Snow Triple Play.00:20:53.000 --> 00:20:56.000Stuart Winchester: And your launch, and you were pretty…00:20:54.000 --> 00:20:55.000Joe Hession: Mm-hmm.00:20:56.000 --> 00:21:09.000Stuart Winchester: adamant, you know, this is not a pass. I don't want to do a pass. And, you know, we talked about it a lot, and I probably harassed you about it a little bit, and now we have a pass!00:21:00.000 --> 00:21:01.000Joe Hession: Yep.00:21:03.000 --> 00:21:05.000Joe Hession: Mm-hmm.00:21:09.000 --> 00:21:17.000Stuart Winchester: So, so tell us about that journey. How did, how did we get from TriplePlay to SnowPass, and, and why do you have the two different products?00:21:09.000 --> 00:21:10.000Joe Hession: Yep.00:21:17.000 --> 00:21:32.000Joe Hession: Yeah. And, and, you know, you might be very responsible for it because you, you pushed it early on of, you know, why, why would this not be a pass? And, you know, originally we were really following the data and the data we were really focused on was 73% of people ski between one and five days.00:21:32.000 --> 00:21:50.000Joe Hession: the price point for that, and we were looking at the data for Mountain Creek with our triple play, and saying, you know, there's really not a lot of triple plays for multi-resort. That's kind of a cool, unique concept. So we were really stuck on the data. Obviously, we heard feedback from folks like yourself, and also your other… all your listeners and subscribers, and…00:21:42.000 --> 00:21:43.000Stuart Winchester: Mm-hmm.00:21:50.000 --> 00:22:05.000Joe Hession: And… but then, it was really our past partners. The people that bought the Triple Play were like, if we had this option, we'd be really happy. They hit us that in our post-survey, they said, we really would like this. Um, and then the resorts. We had great partners on the Triple Play program, and…00:22:05.000 --> 00:22:13.000Joe Hession: they came in and said, we would like this as well. So, you know, the model's been done, and we made the leap to do it. So we're really excited about it.00:22:13.000 --> 00:22:28.000Stuart Winchester: You have a great network to launch, and I think especially if you live in New York Metro, and I want to talk about — I do want to talk about Triple Play, but let's focus on Snowpass for a minute. The three key mountains here are Bel Air, Gore, and Whiteface.00:22:28.000 --> 00:22:43.000Stuart Winchester: These mountains, for those of us who are in the area, we know they're state subsidized. They've gotten a half billion dollars in investment. That's a whole different subject. We're going to leave that alone because the result of that for your pass holders is these are awesome ski areas. Bel Air is essentially a brand new ski area.00:22:43.000 --> 00:22:58.000Stuart Winchester: And if you're in New York Metro, you get two days at Mountain Creek, and you get two days at Big Snow, then there's some little ones. You get up in Connecticut, you have Mount Southington. So you have a really nice network of.00:22:58.000 --> 00:23:10.000Stuart Winchester: 14 ski areas, 12 of them are in the east. Talk about that network, Joe, and how deliberate it was that they kind of worked together to create a compelling pass product.00:23:10.000 --> 00:23:27.000Joe Hession: Yeah, that's a great question because that is, you know, we probably look at the world a little differently than people looking at different passes and different programs. And I think you nailed it. Like, you know, with the news last week, you know, sometimes people from Colorado chirp and they, this pass doesn't make sense for me. I'm like, yeah.00:23:27.000 --> 00:23:44.000Joe Hession: Yeah, congratulations. You can read and understand basic logic. So we love our friends in Colorado, we love our friends out west, but this is a pass that's very regional. It makes so much sense if you live in this area and you're planning to have those trips and, and, and you might remember this, but years ago.00:23:31.000 --> 00:23:32.000Stuart Winchester: Right.00:23:44.000 --> 00:24:00.000Joe Hession: at the NSA show, which is the National Ski Association. I was on stage with a bunch of different groups, talking about Epic Pass and ICOM Pass, and this is before we had a Pass product. And I was saying, and I was a little critical too.00:24:00.000 --> 00:24:18.000Joe Hession: you know, listen, I think the high-level past products that exist, which just throw out big numbers, like, you know, 40 of these resorts, these resorts, or 300 resorts, like, it's cool, but the reality is, is I'm really focused on how does someone actually use it? So if we go back to the skier.00:24:18.000 --> 00:24:35.000Joe Hession: and the snowboarder, and how do they actually use this pass? And, you know, back in the day, and I love, you know, the industry is much smaller than people, especially your listeners might realize, like, I have a ton of respect for almost everybody. If anyone's in this business, I respect them, because it's a really hard business.00:24:35.000 --> 00:24:36.000Stuart Winchester: Mmhm.00:24:35.000 --> 00:24:51.000Joe Hession: And so for us, I've always looked at it and said these big pass products that are kind of like overwhelming with the options, like how do people actually use them and where does it drive traffic and traffic to the right places at the right time and stuff like that. So we're very deliberate.00:24:51.000 --> 00:25:02.000Joe Hession: very deliberate in, if you live in New Jersey, New York, Connecticut, Long Island, um, upstate New York, parts of Pennsylvania, this is a very compelling pass that not only takes you from the city.00:25:02.000 --> 00:25:18.000Joe Hession: Because for us, what's really critical is that kind of warm handshake from, we're teaching a hundred thousand new people a year to ski at Big Snow. Where do they then go to? And obviously we want them to come to Mountain Creek, but I also want them to go to Whiteface and Bel Air and Gore and Platic Hill.00:25:16.000 --> 00:25:17.000Stuart Winchester: Mmhm.00:25:18.000 --> 00:25:34.000Joe Hession: Um, because things like that, that's kind of how this industry can work together to take people who are new to the sport, or people who are, maybe have never gone. Maybe they always go to Vermont, and we love Vermont, but maybe this is their chance to go up to Whiteface and realize, oh, wow.00:25:34.000 --> 00:25:41.000Joe Hession: That's, you know, you can see JP from there, right? So it's kind of it's people don't realize how far north Whiteface is.00:25:36.000 --> 00:25:37.000Stuart Winchester: Mm-hmm.00:25:41.000 --> 00:25:49.000Stuart Winchester: Yeah, so you have a really nice network, and I think it's gonna sell really well. I mean, just even if… even if you just launched.00:25:49.000 --> 00:26:05.000Stuart Winchester: a Bel Air Gore Whiteface pass at that price point, I think it would probably sell really well. Uh, but the reality is you're going up against a very competitive market. So, uh, you look at Epic Pass, not maybe so competitive, you're doing something different, they don't have as many mountains in the market. Indy Pass.00:26:05.000 --> 00:26:20.000Stuart Winchester: I'm not even sure if you know this yet, because the embargo literally lifted when we started this at 10 a.m. eastern. A smuggler's notch today announced they are joining the Indy Pass. So the Indy Pass gives you a really nice network of resorts in your neighborhood.00:26:12.000 --> 00:26:14.000Joe Hession: Yep.00:26:20.000 --> 00:26:34.000Stuart Winchester: In New England, it has Waterville Valley, Cannon, Jay Peak, Saddleback, and now Smug, some of the best ski areas in the region. It has ski areas all over New York. That goes on sale to the public.00:26:34.000 --> 00:26:50.000Stuart Winchester: Today or tomorrow, the Indy Pass, they do a fall sale for $419. They have 256 alpine ski areas as of today, including 61 in the western US. They have a big head start, right? They started in 2019, so.00:26:50.000 --> 00:27:04.000Stuart Winchester: you're offering a different product, but it works in the same way, right? SnowPass. Uh, little lower price point, $340 as opposed to $419. What's your pitch for someone considering SnowPass or IndyPass?00:27:05.000 --> 00:27:20.000Joe Hession: Yeah, so, well, well, first let me hit that because it's, it's, what's interesting is, and, and it's important to kind of explain our background and where we come from. I probably see the world differently than almost everyone involved in this past world. I, I kind of look at it as.00:27:17.000 --> 00:27:18.000Stuart Winchester: Mmhm.00:27:20.000 --> 00:27:35.000Joe Hession: you know, the pitch is, if you live in this area and you want to visit the resorts on our pass, it's a no-brainer. Not only that, I don't think we're going to live in a world where there's Epic, Icon, Indy, Snow Pass, Mountain Collective.00:27:35.000 --> 00:27:53.000Joe Hession: I think we should be trying to live in a world where we democratize skiing back to the skiers and snowboarders, and allow them to make choices in their price points where they want to go, vastly different than it is today. I think these programs, um, really exist because lack of good technology.00:27:53.000 --> 00:28:08.000Joe Hession: Like, like, basically, we would have reciprocal programs back years ago with, uh, like, Mound Creek and Killington. And to get that to actually make sense to the guests, where they show up, and it's seamless, and the money's able to be traded the right way, wasn't possible years ago.00:28:00.000 --> 00:28:02.000Stuart Winchester: Mmhm.00:28:08.000 --> 00:28:24.000Joe Hession: So, for us, you know, and I'll get to the question of what the pitch directly to Indy, but I see the world so dramatically different than IndyPass. I see a world where independent ski resorts should be working with each other.00:28:15.000 --> 00:28:16.000Stuart Winchester: Mm-hmm.00:28:24.000 --> 00:28:43.000Joe Hession: for the betterment of their guests to share people to different locations that people find interesting. A real-life example is Martok in Nova Scotia and Cape Smoky have a reciprocal program that they're actually allowed to have… they have one pass that's able to work at both places and can split the revenue and funding between it.00:28:43.000 --> 00:29:00.000Joe Hession: between them. They have common ownership. But they're both on SnowCloud. So really, you know, our software platform, SnowCloud, which really operates all the things that is involved with Snowpass and Snow TriplePlay, our real pitch long-term, our real pitch of what we're trying to do with Snowpass.00:28:45.000 --> 00:28:46.000Stuart Winchester: Mm-hmm.00:29:00.000 --> 00:29:17.000Joe Hession: is open up the door to give resort leaders and operators tools where they take out the middleman. And what I mean by the middleman is Wachusett and a resort up in Vermont doesn't need a third party to organize their pass benefits.00:29:17.000 --> 00:29:33.000Joe Hession: They should be doing it directly themselves, using better technology. So, I am calling for a shift, a big shift, in the way that people think of this, of, let's get away from these big, pillar, clunky things that are these big, like.00:29:33.000 --> 00:29:46.000Joe Hession: big, like, kind of ego plays of passes, and let's take skiing back to the skiers and snowboarders, and let them have direct relationships with the resorts they love, and give these operators great tools to allow that to happen.00:29:37.000 --> 00:29:38.000Stuart Winchester: Mm-hmm.00:29:46.000 --> 00:29:50.000Joe Hession: Um, so that that's our long term pitch. Yeah.00:29:46.000 --> 00:29:56.000Stuart Winchester: So let me jump in there. I just want to ask now, I want to follow up on that. So are you saying this snow pass, your goal is to…00:29:56.000 --> 00:30:01.000Stuart Winchester: make it extinct at some point? It's a building block to the next level, is that what you're saying?00:29:58.000 --> 00:29:59.000Joe Hession: Yeah.00:29:59.000 --> 00:30:01.000Joe Hession: You…00:30:01.000 --> 00:30:17.000Joe Hession: Yeah, what's interesting is Snowpass, we have no upside in Snowpass. So we've been very open and clear about this. And I just want to make sure the goal of Snowpass is secure. We share all of our books openly with all of our resort partners. They can see every transaction, every dollar flow.00:30:17.000 --> 00:30:18.000Stuart Winchester: Mmhm.00:30:17.000 --> 00:30:33.000Joe Hession: There's overhead in some of the expenses. They get a clear, like, this is the piece that we do that. We originally said it was estimated at 5%. If it ends up becoming 3%, we'll distribute the rest of that to the resorts. We have no profit margin built into our plan for Snowpass.00:30:33.000 --> 00:30:43.000Joe Hession: Snowpass to us is the first step in trying to prove the theory of could we remove the middleman from the equation?00:30:43.000 --> 00:30:58.000Joe Hession: And we applaud the idea that if you're on Snowpass, and let's say that Whiteface wants to now work with Platykill directly, we would celebrate that and see that as a huge win.00:30:58.000 --> 00:30:59.000Stuart Winchester: Mm-hmm.00:30:58.000 --> 00:31:14.000Joe Hession: Because we want resorts to collaborate. If people are real fans of skiing and snowboarding, and they've been buying passes for years, and part of it, they know that the beauty of the ski industry is when the ski industry, skiers, snowboarders, the people that operate these resorts, work together.00:31:14.000 --> 00:31:26.000Joe Hession: they create beautiful things. So we need to give them tools to work together, and also the ability to work together, because some companies restrict people from being able to work with each other, which goes against the spirit of the whole ski industry in the first place.00:31:26.000 --> 00:31:32.000Stuart Winchester: So if you were… So let's think of… Let's do a thought experiment here. So let's take some…00:31:31.000 --> 00:31:32.000Joe Hession: Okay.00:31:32.000 --> 00:31:53.000Stuart Winchester: some resorts that share your operating software, right? So you have Mountain Creek, so you can do whatever you want with it, and you have big snow. I know that, for example, Greek Peak up in upstate New York uses, it's up near Cornell, sort of central New York for folks who aren't familiar. It would be a great feeder from Mountain Creek because it has.00:31:39.000 --> 00:31:40.000Joe Hession: Yep.00:31:44.000 --> 00:31:45.000Joe Hession: Mm-hmm.00:31:53.000 --> 00:32:09.000Stuart Winchester: a resort feel, and it's a big mountain, and it has a nice hotel across the street with a water park and everything. So you have, uh, Greek Beak, and then you signed Jackson Hole, right? So would an example be that if you were a…00:32:04.000 --> 00:32:05.000Joe Hession: Yeah.00:32:09.000 --> 00:32:13.000Stuart Winchester: Mountain Creek Passholder, you could somehow…00:32:13.000 --> 00:32:25.000Stuart Winchester: Mountain Creek could sign a deal with Greek Peak for shorter-term visits and Jackson Hole for longer-term. Is that the goal, and how would that be different from a pass we have now?00:32:23.000 --> 00:32:40.000Joe Hession: Yeah, so, yeah, well, because it could be priced exactly to the price, it would make sense to the consumer. Because right now, and remember, when people buy an IndiePass or a pass like that, there's an idea that all these resorts, like, I'm a big fan of IndiePass.00:32:40.000 --> 00:32:57.000Joe Hession: Pareto charts, the 80/20 rule. I will guess, not knowing anything about their business, that 80% of the revenue is made up of 20% of the resorts and the visits. I will almost guarantee it because that's how statistics works. So when you have huge numbers, it starts to cloud the efficiency of it, right?00:32:51.000 --> 00:32:53.000Stuart Winchester: Yeah.00:32:57.000 --> 00:33:17.000Joe Hession: So to me, I look at and say, yeah, so a program where it's like if Mountain Creek went to Greek Peak and said, we want to have a reciprocal program where if someone uses this, it seamlessly just works at the lift. So imagine someone took their Mountain Creek pass, went and rode the lift at Greek Peak and boom, the transaction happened. The guests never even knew it happened.00:33:11.000 --> 00:33:12.000Stuart Winchester: Mm-hmm.00:33:16.000 --> 00:33:18.000Stuart Winchester: Mmhm.00:33:17.000 --> 00:33:32.000Joe Hession: the business relationship worked, and then we shared data to basically say, oh, this is a Mountain Creek and Greek Peak guest. Now you guys can market directly to them and hopefully get them to come for a longer stay next time. That's where I… that's where I would love to have it, and Greek Peak's a great example.00:33:32.000 --> 00:33:40.000Joe Hession: We're great partners with them. We love that resort. They've been great early adopters of SnowCloud. We're not allowed to have a reciprocal program with them at Mountain Creek or Big.00:33:40.000 --> 00:33:58.000Joe Hession: They're, they're contractly obligated not to work with anyone other than who they work with, which is, which to me is just wild. And I think most people don't realize that that's how it works. And, you know, the last thing we need is, is the middleman kind of inserting themselves into controlling how people operate. It's just.00:33:58.000 --> 00:34:10.000Joe Hession: So… so I would love… I see a future like that. Currently, unfortunately, with a place like Repeat, we're not allowed to work with them. We're… we're… and… and I mean not on Snowpass. We can't have a reciprocal…00:34:10.000 --> 00:34:16.000Joe Hession: We can't give someone a discount if they're a Mountain Creek holder to go to Greek Peak. It's.00:34:16.000 --> 00:34:18.000Stuart Winchester: Yeah, and great.00:34:16.000 --> 00:34:18.000Joe Hession: Less rules. We need less rules.00:34:18.000 --> 00:34:29.000Stuart Winchester: Yeah, Greek Peak has worked with IndiePass since 2019. They've been an original partner over there. I want to get to that in a second. You know, I…00:34:19.000 --> 00:34:20.000Joe Hession: Okay.00:34:29.000 --> 00:34:44.000Stuart Winchester: I don't know if I see a post-pass world, because I like a menu, I like the big passes. However, what I think you're describing could solve is the free visit problem.00:34:44.000 --> 00:35:02.000Stuart Winchester: because I know Indian Ski Cooper, for example, had a dust-up a few years ago because Ski Cooper was essentially… India accused him of essentially creating a national pass, and that was probably my fault because I wrote an article that said, hey, look at this secret national pass for 300 bucks in Colorado. Nonetheless, it's a lot of…00:34:55.000 --> 00:34:56.000Joe Hession: Mm-hmm.00:35:02.000 --> 00:35:19.000Stuart Winchester: Free visits and you have mountains like Bogus Basin in, in Idaho that are still giving away a lot of free visits. Now, Bogus is a great business and, and it's doing well and they have a surplus and, and they've evolved great in the past decade or so. Uh, but, but it seems like that could really solve that.00:35:11.000 --> 00:35:13.000Joe Hession: Yep.00:35:20.000 --> 00:35:26.000Stuart Winchester: free visits problem, where there is some revenue sharing. Is that part of what you're trying to solve here?00:35:26.000 --> 00:35:41.000Joe Hession: 100%. And you see the big players do it, right? Like a big thing about us too is I'm not against anything. I think Indie is fantastic. And it's very important to point this out. I think that is, but I also think Epic and Icon are great.00:35:34.000 --> 00:35:35.000Stuart Winchester: Okay.00:35:41.000 --> 00:35:42.000Stuart Winchester: Mmhm.00:35:41.000 --> 00:35:57.000Joe Hession: Like, I'll put it this way, operating a small resort here in New Jersey, Mountain Creek, or Big Snow, there are things that Vail does so much better than us that we wish we had the resources they have. Now, with that said, we do things way better than Vail does, and they wish they had the resources.00:35:50.000 --> 00:35:51.000Stuart Winchester: Mmhm.00:35:57.000 --> 00:36:14.000Joe Hession: Or the ability to do what we can do, right? And, you know, there's an old commercial years ago that there was, like, a big boardroom, and the boardroom, they're like, I wonder what the little guys are doing. And then all of a sudden, it showed the people in, like, the startup, and they're like, I wonder what the big guys are doing. So, we're all in the same business, and we're.00:35:59.000 --> 00:36:00.000Stuart Winchester: Mmhm.00:36:05.000 --> 00:36:06.000Stuart Winchester: Yeah.00:36:14.000 --> 00:36:32.000Joe Hession: some of the things they've done to try to cure their own things. They own most of their resorts on their program, so they're gonna do things the way that benefits them, because they own all those resorts together. And they've tried to solve these problems in similar ways, and I think learning from them on that stuff, same thing with Icon is doing similar stuff to that.00:36:32.000 --> 00:36:35.000Joe Hession: Um, but yeah, I think…00:36:35.000 --> 00:36:44.000Joe Hession: that's exactly what we're trying to solve. We're trying to solve… we want resorts to have relationships that make sense to the consumer. Like, for example.00:36:44.000 --> 00:37:00.000Joe Hession: Who is going to go, and I'll, I'll, I'll, I'll, I'll, I'll, I'll focus on someone else for a minute. Who's gonna, who's gonna go to 40 resorts in a year on a certain pass? Nobody. Nobody. Skiers are smarter than that. No one's doing that. What they're doing, if you buy an Epic or Icon.00:36:56.000 --> 00:36:57.000Stuart Winchester: Right.00:37:00.000 --> 00:37:08.000Joe Hession: in the real world, the conversation goes, um, oh, I live in New York? Great. What pass are my friends buying?00:37:08.000 --> 00:37:24.000Joe Hession: Because where are they going to go this year? Where do we want to take our family trip? Oh, and it just happened. My wife and I, our family, we have a place in Snowmass. So every year, we have some friends who are like, I want to come out to Snowmass. Well, they buy an IconPass. Their decision is made based on, oh.00:37:10.000 --> 00:37:11.000Stuart Winchester: Mm-hmm.00:37:17.000 --> 00:37:18.000Stuart Winchester: Mm-hmm.00:37:24.000 --> 00:37:43.000Joe Hession: your condo's available, I can go, I'm gonna lock in an Icon Pass. That's how consumers actually work. So, to me, it's like, I agree with you, I love the big passes, I don't think they should go away. I think there's a great place for India, I think there's a great place for Icon, I think there's a great place for Epic Pass. There might be a great place for Snowpass.00:37:43.000 --> 00:37:59.000Joe Hession: But I also get really excited about other options. And I feel like we're at this disruptive time where we're seeing the results of these passes and kind of the rubs that are rubbing people the wrong way. And I think it might be time with technology that we can kind of.00:37:56.000 --> 00:37:57.000Stuart Winchester: Mmhm.00:37:59.000 --> 00:38:06.000Joe Hession: take it to the next level. Like, you know, we're talking about the evolution of, you know, major.00:38:06.000 --> 00:38:21.000Joe Hession: uh, success has been done, and there's been some learnings, right? Like… like, the pictures of the long lines and stuff, uh, that we see every holiday or powder day, like, is a result of the PASS program. It's a result of this, it's an output of that, and I think there's ways we can maybe.00:38:21.000 --> 00:38:37.000Joe Hession: Make it better where the skier gets a better choice, a better experience, and then the resorts get to share in different ways. So really, at the end of the day, I think it's a technology driven way to better collaborate for the betterment of the ski experience to democratize.00:38:34.000 --> 00:38:35.000Stuart Winchester: Mmhm.00:38:37.000 --> 00:38:42.000Joe Hession: It's kind of the price and take out the middleman is really, is really my pitch.00:38:41.000 --> 00:38:44.000Stuart Winchester: So, Joy, I appreciate…00:38:42.000 --> 00:38:45.000Joe Hession: I'd like to remove myself from the equation eventually.00:38:44.000 --> 00:39:01.000Stuart Winchester: You know, the problem with you removing yourself from the equation, Joe, is that everyone I talk to really likes working with Snow Partners, your team. They like the train-based learning, they like your operating software.00:38:54.000 --> 00:38:55.000Joe Hession: Yeah.00:39:01.000 --> 00:39:16.000Stuart Winchester: And I appreciate that spirit of Bonhomie, and you're right, the ski industry is small, and it was smaller than I would have imagined, and it was more welcoming than I would have imagined. I'm not sure if you read the lawsuit.00:39:16.000 --> 00:39:25.000Stuart Winchester: The most recent one filed against Veil Altera, Boyne Powder, the National Skier Association and and RRC. And it's built.00:39:20.000 --> 00:39:21.000Joe Hession: Yep.00:39:25.000 --> 00:39:34.000Stuart Winchester: the case for the lawsuit is built on accusations of collusion. Using a lot of.00:39:31.000 --> 00:39:33.000Joe Hession: Yep.00:39:35.000 --> 00:39:50.000Stuart Winchester: kind of fluffy evidence of people getting together at NSAA shows and basically sharing data and sharing best practices. I think all industries do this. Now, I'm going somewhere with this.00:39:50.000 --> 00:40:07.000Stuart Winchester: I appreciate that, and I think IndyPass, a lot of people love working with them. However, maybe a little more conflict would be good for the ski industry, because one thing I've seen as I've been reading old newspaper clippings is ski operators used to talk a lot more junk to each other, like, oh, Summit County, Colorado does.00:40:07.000 --> 00:40:17.000Stuart Winchester: more skier visits to the whole state of Utah. Obviously, those days are over, but there used to be a little more smack talk. So let me get into a little controversy here, and you can address this as you want.00:40:11.000 --> 00:40:13.000Joe Hession: Yep.00:40:15.000 --> 00:40:17.000Joe Hession: Yeah.00:40:17.000 --> 00:40:34.000Stuart Winchester: As you said, Indy Pass does not share. You have been willing to share and and the snow triple or snow pass shares two mountains, Bromance in Quebec and Whiteface with Mountain Collective and three.00:40:34.000 --> 00:40:45.000Stuart Winchester: Uh, Butternut, Jiminy Peak, and Cranmore with the Icon today. You and Indy are both claiming Snow King, you're both telling me it's locked in, uh, and…00:40:45.000 --> 00:40:55.000Stuart Winchester: Indy's telling me it's only gonna be on Indy, so… there's a little conflict for ya. Uh, how are you approaching that, and what do you think about the scenario?00:40:50.000 --> 00:40:52.000Joe Hession: Yeah, yeah.00:40:56.000 --> 00:41:00.000Joe Hession: Yeah, so we're talking about Snow King specifically?00:40:59.000 --> 00:41:02.000Stuart Winchester: Yes, Snow King specifically.00:41:00.000 --> 00:41:10.000Joe Hession: Yeah, so specifically Snow King, we have a signed agreement with Snow King. We're very excited to work with Snow King.00:41:07.000 --> 00:41:08.000Stuart Winchester: Mmhm.00:41:10.000 --> 00:41:23.000Joe Hession: Uh, Snow King would love to have visits, uh, come from us, and they are on our website, and we launched with Snow King. Um, that's where we're at. Um, you know, as far as what's going on with them in Indy.00:41:23.000 --> 00:41:39.000Joe Hession: Um, I'll kind of let them speak to that to themselves, but from what I understand, which I'll take some liberties and say what I think is going on, is there is a clause in an IndyPass that if someone leaves the IndyPass program.00:41:40.000 --> 00:41:55.000Joe Hession: They have to not work with anyone for another year. And it's kind of buried in the fine details. So I think what happened is I think they were off that pass, planned to be off that pass, maybe wasn't familiar with that clause, and then signed an agreement with us.00:41:55.000 --> 00:42:10.000Joe Hession: So for me, so the big question is, hey, so here's the choices as we sit today. We have a signed agreement. We've told Snow King, if this is going to hurt you, we never want to hurt you. So we are 100% willing to do whatever that takes.00:42:10.000 --> 00:42:12.000Joe Hession: to do it.00:42:12.000 --> 00:42:17.000Joe Hession: But, you know, we're not gonna just, like, bow down, because at the end of the day.00:42:17.000 --> 00:42:31.000Joe Hession: It's also on Indy, and maybe they… maybe they signed an agreement that wasn't… that was not the right thing to do. We have a signed agreement. They're on our paths, right? Um, at the end of the day, there's one person who can make a big choice here.00:42:25.000 --> 00:42:27.000Stuart Winchester: Mm-hmm.00:42:31.000 --> 00:42:32.000Stuart Winchester: Mmhm.00:42:31.000 --> 00:42:37.000Joe Hession: Is Indy gonna sue Snow King because of this clause in the piece?00:42:37.000 --> 00:42:54.000Joe Hession: I read in the Boston Globe that Eric Mogensen is going to, like, change and save skiing. Is he going to sue a small ski resort? Like, and I know that's blunt, but I would put the ball right back in his court. I would love to, you know, if he sues Snow King.00:42:44.000 --> 00:42:45.000Stuart Winchester: Mmhm.00:42:54.000 --> 00:43:12.000Joe Hession: That would be an insane thing. And I think he should go out to everyone and say, you know what, we're not going to litigate. You know, I know he hasn't been operating a ski resort long, and I have a ton of respect because of the fact that the fact that he's a GM of a ski resort, the fact that he's operating a ski resort, there's not a single person. And I respect him.00:43:12.000 --> 00:43:27.000Joe Hession: I really do. I really do. There's just one piece that we don't see eye to eye on. And it's… he's told me he's the anti-collaborator, and I am the ultimate collaborator. So when you get us in the ring together, it's one is super collaboration and one isn't. And so to me.00:43:27.000 --> 00:43:39.000Joe Hession: I think, you know, the more he operates a ski resort, he's gonna realize that litigation is one of the hardest things we have to deal with in the ski business. We have realities of things that happen at ski resorts that involve litigation.00:43:39.000 --> 00:43:49.000Joe Hession: suing each other is just a waste of time. Like, what are we doing? Like, we should be, like, we need… we should be talking about skiing and snowboarding, and we should be thinking.00:43:42.000 --> 00:43:43.000Stuart Winchester: Mmhm.00:43:49.000 --> 00:44:09.000Joe Hession: how many visits can Indy give Snow King? I would love for them to get a ton of visits. How many visits can Snow Pass give Snow King? Let's get Snow King visits. Let's give people options. And just because of, like, some, uh, you know, red tape in a contract, we're then gonna threaten and clause, like.00:43:52.000 --> 00:43:53.000Stuart Winchester: Mmhm.00:44:09.000 --> 00:44:28.000Joe Hession: So that's… so here's… so I gave you probably more than I should have, but… and I'm sure Hugh is no longer looking at me, so he… but he didn't give me the hook, so I'm still talking, right, Hugh? We're good? So, I'm sure… you know, but you'll definitely… you wanted to have, you know, for this inaugural session, you wanted to have some stories. This is a story.00:44:28.000 --> 00:44:39.000Joe Hession: The story is, the reality is, the truth is, that they were under contract, Indy, from what I understand, which they've told me, they wrote they are no longer to work, they gave them the right.00:44:39.000 --> 00:44:53.000Joe Hession: I'm out. This is the time you're supposed to be out. They were unaware of this one clause, which we were also unaware of. We signed, we moved forward, we announced. After announcement, it was, no, you can't do that. So, really, right now, I think Snow King would gladly take visits from both.00:44:53.000 --> 00:44:54.000Stuart Winchester: Mm-hmm.00:44:53.000 --> 00:44:56.000Joe Hession: We would gladly take visits from both.00:44:56.000 --> 00:45:02.000Joe Hession: Ball's in Mogensen's court, we'll see what he does. I guess the best way to approach this is publicly. So, here.00:44:58.000 --> 00:45:00.000Stuart Winchester: And he…00:45:00.000 --> 00:45:16.000Stuart Winchester: I agree, and Eric is scheduled to be on this podcast on Thursday, so he will have his chance to respond. And you know what, Joe, you're welcome back anytime to respond. But before you go out the door, I do want… I did promise to keep these short, and I know for you and I.00:45:06.000 --> 00:45:07.000Joe Hession: Perfect!00:45:10.000 --> 00:45:12.000Joe Hession: Yep.00:45:15.000 --> 00:45:16.000Joe Hession: Yep.00:45:16.000 --> 00:45:31.000Stuart Winchester: Both, that's a challenge. I do want to call out some of these awesome new triple play partners, uh, Jiminy Peak and Cramore, especially. I have a ton of respect for the Fairbanks and, and, uh, what, and what they do. Uh, Bromont is, is an excellent.00:45:27.000 --> 00:45:28.000Joe Hession: Yeah.00:45:31.000 --> 00:45:51.000Stuart Winchester: edition, and Hallamont. Actually, Hallamont is on Snow Pass as well, which is a terrific skier. I never realized until I went there this year. It's just because it's private on the weekends and in public during the week. What do you have to do to convince some of these folks, especially Jiminy Cranmore Bromont, to jump over to Snow Pass? Do you think there's a path there?00:45:52.000 --> 00:46:10.000Joe Hession: Yeah, you know, I do. I think it's kind of proving it out over time, but also making, you know, going back to what I said earlier, maybe the right product for them is a relationship with different resorts, right? Maybe it's a whole new version of what happens, but I think we're very lucky to have them on the program.00:46:10.000 --> 00:46:25.000Joe Hession: Both operators are fantastic. Brian and Tyler Fairbank, we go back really far. Like, they were early adopters of us with snow operating and train-based learning. Brian Fairbank, if people don't know, is one of the godfathers of snowmaking in the industry.00:46:15.000 --> 00:46:16.000Stuart Winchester: Mmhm.00:46:25.000 --> 00:46:40.000Joe Hession: He's still at it. He's in his 80s. He's out there making snow. I mean, he's an absolute legend. So anytime we get to work with him and his resort partners, we're really happy. Tyler, we've obviously known for well over a decade and a half as well.00:46:40.000 --> 00:47:00.000Joe Hession: great resorts, we've loved visiting them, and I think they're great operators, so I think people are going to love discovering them. And that's, you know, one thing I'll give a lot of credit to Indy for, which has opened our eyes, is the fact that there's so many passes on the program, there's the fact that there's all these different options. People learn new places they've never learned before, right? And I think Epic and I kind of have done the same.00:46:54.000 --> 00:46:55.000Stuart Winchester: Mmhm.00:47:00.000 --> 00:47:15.000Joe Hession: You know, I never thought of going to Crested Butte, but because it's on the Epic Pass, I'm going to go to Crested Butte, or I never thought of going to this resort, but because of it. And I think that's been a huge success. And it's great to hear you say, like, Hollymont, like, oh, I didn't know that much about the.00:47:04.000 --> 00:47:05.000Stuart Winchester: Yep.00:47:15.000 --> 00:47:29.000Joe Hession: I think that's the spirit. The spirit is, how do you take skiers from different regions and inspire them to want to go to somewhere else and make that transaction seamless and easy for the operators to navigate, is really our goal.00:47:28.000 --> 00:47:49.000Stuart Winchester: It's such a rich world, and I love how you're helping folks explore it. Leave us with this, Joe. Where can we buy Snowpass? And I believe you said you're selling a limited number. You probably won't tell me that number, but how soon should folks go to where you're going to tell us to go before they're going to lose this special price of, I believe, 340 for Snowpass and 179?00:47:49.000 --> 00:47:52.000Stuart Winchester: For the triple play.00:47:52.000 --> 00:48:05.000Joe Hession: Correct. So, so 4pm today, mysnowpass.com, uh, it's gonna be a limited release. Uh, if you know the Mound Creek world, and you know how we do it, it's actually Mound Creek's on the clock right now.00:48:05.000 --> 00:48:22.000Joe Hession: Um, we've been selling for 31 minutes, so I'm gonna get an update when we get off the call here, but at 4 o'clock, we will have our watch party with our group in the kind of war room. We're watching the transactions live. We have a number that we have promised ourselves we will not exceed, and it'll shut itself down at that number.00:48:08.000 --> 00:48:09.000Stuart Winchester: Okay.00:48:22.000 --> 00:48:40.000Joe Hession: Um, so 4PM today will be, uh… will be the birth of a new product in the industry, which hopefully will inspire other new products down the road, and… and hopefully start to change the relationship between resorts and… and the skiers, because that's what it's about. It's about getting skiers the best price for the best mountains, new… doing new things, and working together.00:48:40.000 --> 00:49:00.000Joe Hession: And we have a beautiful industry of resorts, but we have great customers. People who are skiers and snowboarders are so passionate. Like, I read everything they post on your stuff. You know, the comments have been just amazing. And, you know, we're looking forward to, over time, I want to make that person in Colorado that keeps saying, this pass stinks, has nothing to do for me.00:48:50.000 --> 00:48:51.000Stuart Winchester: Yeah, thank you.00:49:00.000 --> 00:49:09.000Joe Hession: I want to eventually win them over by giving them a product that does make sense for them or allowing resorts there to find a product that works for them. So it's really exciting day.00:49:06.000 --> 00:49:17.000Stuart Winchester: Colorado bro is very proud of Colorado. Uh, last year, Joe, you sold Snow Triple Play, I believe, until Christmas Eve. You have a similar schedule in mind for these two passes this year?00:49:10.000 --> 00:49:11.000Joe Hession: Yes.00:49:17.000 --> 00:49:32.000Joe Hession: Yeah, exactly the same schedule. So they'll be… the best price will be the launches. So today will be the lowest possible price, it'll scale up in another drop, and then it'll be on sale for a little bit at its full retail price, and then it'll turn off at that time. Exactly.00:49:19.000 --> 00:49:20.000Stuart Winchester: Okay.00:49:31.000 --> 00:49:51.000Stuart Winchester: Joe, so good to run you down. Good luck with the launch. I can't wait to see how it goes, and how this thing grows, and frankly, how this little controversy between Snowpass and Indypass resolves itself, because I'm sure that you will find a way through it. So, thank you so much for being my first guest on the new platform. I really appreciate it.00:49:34.000 --> 00:49:35.000Joe Hession: Yes.00:49:50.000 --> 00:49:51.000Joe Hession: Okay.00:49:51.000 --> 00:49:54.000Stuart Winchester: You're welcome on anytime. We'll talk to you really soon.00:49:54.000 --> 00:49:56.000Joe Hession: Great. Thanks for having me.00:49:55.000 --> 00:49:57.000Stuart Winchester: All right, take care, Joe. Bye now.00:49:58.000 --> 00:50:00.000Stuart Winchester: Alright, so…00:50:01.000 --> 00:50:03.000Stuart Winchester: Uh, what do you…00:50:03.000 --> 00:50:23.000Stuart Winchester: Okay, so that was Joe Heschen, the CEO of Snow Partners and the founder. Quick update from another partner before I wrap up the show today. If you run a ski area or outdoor brand, I want to tell you about my friends at Bonfire Collective.00:50:23.000 --> 00:50:35.000Stuart Winchester: They are a fractional marketing team that collaborates with ski areas and outdoor brands, and they will give your marketing a fresh perspective and better storytelling to supercharge your rebranding or advertising.00:50:35.000 --> 00:50:41.000Stuart Winchester: Bonfire can help you rethink your approach in ways that can turbocharge your business.00:50:41.000 --> 00:50:49.000Stuart Winchester: For example, Bonfire took on the marketing at one New Hampshire ski area and doubled revenue in just three years.00:50:49.000 --> 00:51:04.000Stuart Winchester: When the storm was ready to invest in its first ever digital marketing campaign last year, I worked with Bonfire to make it happen. I could not be happier with the results, and I think you will love working with them as well. To get started, you'll want to talk to Eric.00:51:04.000 --> 00:51:21.000Stuart Winchester: over at Bonfire Collective. He was a co-founder of Bluebird Backcountry Colorado, the first human-powered ski area, so he knows the ski business. You can actually listen to his podcast episode on the Storm Skiing Podcast, long form. Visit bonfirecollective.com.00:51:21.000 --> 00:51:25.000Stuart Winchester: Or I will be happy to make that connection for you.00:51:26.000 --> 00:51:28.000Stuart Winchester: All right, how great was Joe?00:51:28.000 --> 00:51:45.000Stuart Winchester: This is why I love the new pod, because I can have guys like that on all the time. I have dozens of relationships like that throughout the ski industry. Anytime you've listened to a podcast and you've heard someone on there and you enjoyed the conversation.00:51:45.000 --> 00:52:01.000Stuart Winchester: Whether it was Carl Kapczynski, who runs California Mountain Resorts, or… and owns Mountain High, and Bear Valley, and China Peak, and Dodge Ridge out in California. Or if it was…00:52:01.000 --> 00:52:15.000Stuart Winchester: Dustin, who… the president at Copper Mountain, uh, or it was Rob Katz, you know, the Vale CEO. I'm interacting with these people, or… or the folks who represent them, all the time.00:52:15.000 --> 00:52:31.000Stuart Winchester: I talk to Carl Kabasinski all the time, but I haven't had him on the podcast in four years. He's already agreed to come on the new shorter form to talk about all the things going on in his mountains. And that's what's great about it. And, you know, one of the concerns that I heard from people when I announced a shorter form pod was.00:52:31.000 --> 00:52:47.000Stuart Winchester: Oh, well, I really like when you covered small mountains. Well, this will allow me to do that much more, because I don't have to commit an entire hour and a half long episode to it, and it doesn't have to be the whole history of the area. I can just, for example, ask.00:52:47.000 --> 00:53:02.000Stuart Winchester: Rick Schmitz from Little Switzerland in Wisconsin to come onto the show and talk about the new quad chairlift that he's putting up or two new quads put

40 Zutaten im veganen Burger, nur eine im Steak – damit scheint eigentlich klar, was gesünder ist. Oder? In dieser Folge nehmen wir vegane Fleischersatz- und Convenience-Produkte wissenschaftlich unter die Lupe. Wir sprechen darüber, warum die NOVA-Klassifikation Beyond Burger und Cola in dieselbe Kategorie einordnet und was tatsächlich passiert, wenn Fleisch durch Produkte von Beyond Meat, Quorn und Co. ersetzt wird. Was zeigen die Studien zu LDL-Cholesterin, TMAO, Blutzucker und Entzündungsmarkern? Können solche Produkte trotz ihres Verarbeitungsgrades den Muskelaufbau genauso gut unterstützen wie tierische Lebensmittel? Und woran erkennt man im Supermarkt einen geeigneten Fleischersatz? Außerdem geben wir euch konkrete Kriterien zu Proteingehalt, Proteindichte, Kalorien, Ballaststoffen, Proteinquelle und Salzgehalt an die Hand. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Dominiks Buch zur pflanzenbasierten Sporternährung im UTB-Verlag: https://www.utb.de/doi/book/10.36198/9783838560328 Dominiks Gesundheitscommunity: www.gsundes-hannover.de Dominiks Online-Knie-Kurs: https://gsundes-hannover.de/knieschmerzen/ Dominiks Online-Rücken-Kurs: https://copecart.com/products/34bd5abb/checkout Marcs veganes Online-Fitness-Coaching: https://vegainer-academy.com/ Marcs Online-Kurs: https://www.copecart.com/products/a50f88f2/checkout ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Werbung: Dieser Podcast wird unterstützt von der Firma Watson Nutrition. Die Firma bietet als einzige umfassend laborgeprüfte Nahrungsergänzungsmittel für eine optimierte Nährstoffversorgung. Zum Angebot zählen Multi-Supplemente, Mono-Supplemente, Sportsupplemente wie Kreatin oder auch Proteinriegel, Shakes und essenzielle Aminosäuren Mit dem Code veganperformance erhältst du 5 % Rabatt auf deine Bestellung.  Zur Firmenwebseite: Watson Nutrition ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Kapitelmarken: 00:00 Welchen Fleischersatz sollte man besser meiden? 03:21 Woher kommt die Angst vor verarbeiteten Lebensmitteln? 09:25 Die NOVA-Klassifikation und ihre Schwächen 17:45 Beyond Burger und Cola in derselben Kategorie 18:20 Supplements und angereicherte Lebensmittel 25:22 Werbung: Watson Nutrition 26:25 Was passiert, wenn Fleisch durch Ersatzprodukte ersetzt wird? 28:32 SWAP-MEAT: Beyond Meat gegen Rindfleisch 34:06 Quorn, Mycomeat und die Meta-Analyse 38:13 Der Gegenbefund aus Singapur 39:43 Die praktische Checkliste für den Einkauf 44:19 Muskelaufbau mit Quorn versus Mischkost 48:24 Aminosäureprofil: Weizen und Kichererbse versus Hähnchen 50:35 Die Coaching-Realität: Protein, Zeit und Convenience 53:53 Die Gegenseite: Pflanzliche UPF in der UK Biobank 56:09 Fleischersatz als Ergänzung einer vollwertigen Ernährung 59:56 Fazit: Weder Gesundheitsfood noch Gift ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Quellen: Alessandrini, R., Brown, M. K., Pombo-Rodrigues, S., Bhageerutty, S., He, F. J., & MacGregor, G. A. (2021). Nutritional quality of plant-based meat products available in the UK: A cross-sectional survey. Nutrients, 13(12), 4225. Crimarco, A., Landry, M. J., Carter, M. M., & Gardner, C. D. (2022). Assessing the effects of alternative plant-based meats v. animal meats on biomarkers of inflammation: A secondary analysis of the SWAP-MEAT randomized crossover trial. Journal of Nutritional Science, 11, e82. Crimarco, A., Springfield, S., Petlura, C., Streaty, T., Cunanan, K., Lee, J., Fielding-Singh, P., Carter, M. M., Topf, M. A., Wastyk, H. C., Sonnenburg, E. D., Sonnenburg, J. L., & Gardner, C. D. (2020). A randomized crossover trial on the effect of plant-based compared with animal-based meat on trimethylamine-N-oxide and cardiovascular disease risk factors in generally healthy adults: Study With Appetizing Plantfood–Meat Eating Alternative Trial (SWAP-MEAT). The American Journal of Clinical Nutrition, 112(5), 1188–1199. Farsi, D. N., Lara Gallegos, J., Finnigan, T. J. A., Cheung, W., Muñoz-Muñoz, J. L., & Commane, D. M. (2023). The effects of substituting red and processed meat for mycoprotein on biomarkers of cardiovascular risk in healthy volunteers: An analysis of secondary endpoints from Mycomeat. European Journal of Nutrition, 62(8), 3349–3359. Fernández-Rodríguez, R., Bizzozero-Peroni, B., Díaz-Goñi, V., Garrido-Miguel, M., Bertotti, G., Roldán-Ruiz, A., & López-Moreno, M. (2025). Plant-based meat alternatives and cardiometabolic health: A systematic review and meta-analysis. The American Journal of Clinical Nutrition, 121(2), 274–283. Ferreira, J. P., Marques, P., Zhang, G., Possik, E., Mavrakanas, T. A., Tsoukas, M. A., & Sharma, A. (2026). Processed plant-based meat-supplemented diet versus red meat-based supplemented diet randomized cross-over trial Finding Optimal Oral Diet-1 (FOOD-1) trial. Scientific Reports, 16, 13104. Fruit, S. E., Keirns, N. G., Higgins, M. E., Quirk, A., Schifferer, J., Romanovich, O., Yakos, A. C., Osborne, K. E., Trappe, S. W., & Keirns, B. H. (2025). Acute effects of a reformulated plant-based meat alternative compared to beef within a high-fat meal on inflammatory and metabolic factors: A randomized crossover trial. Applied Physiology, Nutrition, and Metabolism, 50, 1–11. Fu, A. S., Osman, F., Cameron-Smith, D., Lam, N. Y. L., Mehta, K. A., Leow, M. K.-S., Haldar, S., Henry, C. J., & Toh, D. W. K. (2026). Micronutrient intake and status of adults consuming plant-based meat analogues or animal-based meats as primary protein source: An 8-week randomized controlled trial. Clinical Nutrition, 59, 106610. Gehring, J., Touvier, M., Baudry, J., Julia, C., Buscail, C., Srour, B., Hercberg, S., Péneau, S., Kesse-Guyot, E., & Allès, B. (2021). Consumption of ultra-processed foods by pesco-vegetarians, vegetarians, and vegans: Associations with duration and age at diet initiation. The Journal of Nutrition, 151(1), 120–131. Kouw, I. W. K., Pinckaers, P. J. M., Le Bourgot, C., van Kranenburg, J. M. X., Zorenc, A. H., de Groot, L. C. P. G. M., Verdijk, L. B., Snijders, T., & van Loon, L. J. C. (2022). Ingestion of an ample amount of meat substitute based upon a lysine-enriched, plant-based protein blend stimulates postprandial muscle protein synthesis to a similar extent as an isonitrogenous amount of chicken in healthy, young men. British Journal of Nutrition, 128(10), 1955–1965. Monteiro, C. A., Cannon, G., Levy, R. B., Moubarac, J.-C., Louzada, M. L. C., Rauber, F., Khandpur, N., Cediel, G., Neri, D., Martinez-Steele, E., Baraldi, L. G., & Jaime, P. C. (2019). Ultra-processed foods: What they are and how to identify them. Public Health Nutrition, 22(5), 936–941. Monteyne, A. J., Coelho, M. O. C., Murton, A. J., Abdelrahman, D. R., Blackwell, J. R., Koscien, C. P., Knapp, K. M., Fulford, J., Finnigan, T. J. A., Dirks, M. L., Stephens, F. B., & Wall, B. T. (2023). Vegan and omnivorous high protein diets support comparable daily myofibrillar protein synthesis rates and skeletal muscle hypertrophy in young adults. The Journal of Nutrition, 153(6), 1680–1695. Rauber, F., da Costa Louzada, M. L., Chang, K., Huybrechts, I., Gunter, M. J., Monteiro, C. A., Vamos, E. P., & Levy, R. B. (2024). Implications of food ultra-processing on cardiovascular risk considering plant origin foods: An analysis of the UK Biobank cohort. The Lancet Regional Health – Europe, 43, 100948. Román, S., Sánchez-Siles, L. M., & Siegrist, M. (2017). The importance of food naturalness for consumers: Results of a systematic review. Trends in Food Science & Technology, 67, 44–57. Toh, D. W. K., Fu, A. S., Mehta, K. A., Lam, N. Y. L., Haldar, S., & Henry, C. J. (2024). Plant-based meat analogs and their effects on cardiometabolic health: An 8-week randomized controlled trial comparing plant-based meat analogs with their corresponding animal-based foods. The American Journal of Clinical Nutrition, 119(6), 1405–1416.

40 Zutaten im veganen Burger, nur eine im Steak – damit scheint eigentlich klar, was gesünder ist. Oder? In dieser Folge nehmen wir vegane Fleischersatz- und Convenience-Produkte wissenschaftlich unter die Lupe. Wir sprechen darüber, warum die NOVA-Klassifikation Beyond Burger und Cola in dieselbe Kategorie einordnet und was tatsächlich passiert, wenn Fleisch durch Produkte von Beyond Meat, Quorn und Co. ersetzt wird. Was zeigen die Studien zu LDL-Cholesterin, TMAO, Blutzucker und Entzündungsmarkern? Können solche Produkte trotz ihres Verarbeitungsgrades den Muskelaufbau genauso gut unterstützen wie tierische Lebensmittel? Und woran erkennt man im Supermarkt einen geeigneten Fleischersatz? Außerdem geben wir euch konkrete Kriterien zu Proteingehalt, Proteindichte, Kalorien, Ballaststoffen, Proteinquelle und Salzgehalt an die Hand. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Dominiks Buch zur pflanzenbasierten Sporternährung im UTB-Verlag: https://www.utb.de/doi/book/10.36198/9783838560328 Dominiks Gesundheitscommunity: www.gsundes-hannover.de Dominiks Online-Knie-Kurs: https://gsundes-hannover.de/knieschmerzen/ Dominiks Online-Rücken-Kurs: https://copecart.com/products/34bd5abb/checkout Marcs veganes Online-Fitness-Coaching: https://vegainer-academy.com/ Marcs Online-Kurs: https://www.copecart.com/products/a50f88f2/checkout ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Werbung: Dieser Podcast wird unterstützt von der Firma Watson Nutrition. Die Firma bietet als einzige umfassend laborgeprüfte Nahrungsergänzungsmittel für eine optimierte Nährstoffversorgung. Zum Angebot zählen Multi-Supplemente, Mono-Supplemente, Sportsupplemente wie Kreatin oder auch Proteinriegel, Shakes und essenzielle Aminosäuren Mit dem Code veganperformance erhältst du 5 % Rabatt auf deine Bestellung.  Zur Firmenwebseite: Watson Nutrition ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Kapitelmarken: 00:00 Welchen Fleischersatz sollte man besser meiden? 03:21 Woher kommt die Angst vor verarbeiteten Lebensmitteln? 09:25 Die NOVA-Klassifikation und ihre Schwächen 17:45 Beyond Burger und Cola in derselben Kategorie 18:20 Supplements und angereicherte Lebensmittel 25:22 Werbung: Watson Nutrition 26:25 Was passiert, wenn Fleisch durch Ersatzprodukte ersetzt wird? 28:32 SWAP-MEAT: Beyond Meat gegen Rindfleisch 34:06 Quorn, Mycomeat und die Meta-Analyse 38:13 Der Gegenbefund aus Singapur 39:43 Die praktische Checkliste für den Einkauf 44:19 Muskelaufbau mit Quorn versus Mischkost 48:24 Aminosäureprofil: Weizen und Kichererbse versus Hähnchen 50:35 Die Coaching-Realität: Protein, Zeit und Convenience 53:53 Die Gegenseite: Pflanzliche UPF in der UK Biobank 56:09 Fleischersatz als Ergänzung einer vollwertigen Ernährung 59:56 Fazit: Weder Gesundheitsfood noch Gift ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Quellen: Alessandrini, R., Brown, M. K., Pombo-Rodrigues, S., Bhageerutty, S., He, F. J., & MacGregor, G. A. (2021). Nutritional quality of plant-based meat products available in the UK: A cross-sectional survey. Nutrients, 13(12), 4225. Crimarco, A., Landry, M. J., Carter, M. M., & Gardner, C. D. (2022). Assessing the effects of alternative plant-based meats v. animal meats on biomarkers of inflammation: A secondary analysis of the SWAP-MEAT randomized crossover trial. Journal of Nutritional Science, 11, e82. Crimarco, A., Springfield, S., Petlura, C., Streaty, T., Cunanan, K., Lee, J., Fielding-Singh, P., Carter, M. M., Topf, M. A., Wastyk, H. C., Sonnenburg, E. D., Sonnenburg, J. L., & Gardner, C. D. (2020). A randomized crossover trial on the effect of plant-based compared with animal-based meat on trimethylamine-N-oxide and cardiovascular disease risk factors in generally healthy adults: Study With Appetizing Plantfood–Meat Eating Alternative Trial (SWAP-MEAT). The American Journal of Clinical Nutrition, 112(5), 1188–1199. Farsi, D. N., Lara Gallegos, J., Finnigan, T. J. A., Cheung, W., Muñoz-Muñoz, J. L., & Commane, D. M. (2023). The effects of substituting red and processed meat for mycoprotein on biomarkers of cardiovascular risk in healthy volunteers: An analysis of secondary endpoints from Mycomeat. European Journal of Nutrition, 62(8), 3349–3359. Fernández-Rodríguez, R., Bizzozero-Peroni, B., Díaz-Goñi, V., Garrido-Miguel, M., Bertotti, G., Roldán-Ruiz, A., & López-Moreno, M. (2025). Plant-based meat alternatives and cardiometabolic health: A systematic review and meta-analysis. The American Journal of Clinical Nutrition, 121(2), 274–283. Ferreira, J. P., Marques, P., Zhang, G., Possik, E., Mavrakanas, T. A., Tsoukas, M. A., & Sharma, A. (2026). Processed plant-based meat-supplemented diet versus red meat-based supplemented diet randomized cross-over trial Finding Optimal Oral Diet-1 (FOOD-1) trial. Scientific Reports, 16, 13104. Fruit, S. E., Keirns, N. G., Higgins, M. E., Quirk, A., Schifferer, J., Romanovich, O., Yakos, A. C., Osborne, K. E., Trappe, S. W., & Keirns, B. H. (2025). Acute effects of a reformulated plant-based meat alternative compared to beef within a high-fat meal on inflammatory and metabolic factors: A randomized crossover trial. Applied Physiology, Nutrition, and Metabolism, 50, 1–11. Fu, A. S., Osman, F., Cameron-Smith, D., Lam, N. Y. L., Mehta, K. A., Leow, M. K.-S., Haldar, S., Henry, C. J., & Toh, D. W. K. (2026). Micronutrient intake and status of adults consuming plant-based meat analogues or animal-based meats as primary protein source: An 8-week randomized controlled trial. Clinical Nutrition, 59, 106610. Gehring, J., Touvier, M., Baudry, J., Julia, C., Buscail, C., Srour, B., Hercberg, S., Péneau, S., Kesse-Guyot, E., & Allès, B. (2021). Consumption of ultra-processed foods by pesco-vegetarians, vegetarians, and vegans: Associations with duration and age at diet initiation. The Journal of Nutrition, 151(1), 120–131. Kouw, I. W. K., Pinckaers, P. J. M., Le Bourgot, C., van Kranenburg, J. M. X., Zorenc, A. H., de Groot, L. C. P. G. M., Verdijk, L. B., Snijders, T., & van Loon, L. J. C. (2022). Ingestion of an ample amount of meat substitute based upon a lysine-enriched, plant-based protein blend stimulates postprandial muscle protein synthesis to a similar extent as an isonitrogenous amount of chicken in healthy, young men. British Journal of Nutrition, 128(10), 1955–1965. Monteiro, C. A., Cannon, G., Levy, R. B., Moubarac, J.-C., Louzada, M. L. C., Rauber, F., Khandpur, N., Cediel, G., Neri, D., Martinez-Steele, E., Baraldi, L. G., & Jaime, P. C. (2019). Ultra-processed foods: What they are and how to identify them. Public Health Nutrition, 22(5), 936–941. Monteyne, A. J., Coelho, M. O. C., Murton, A. J., Abdelrahman, D. R., Blackwell, J. R., Koscien, C. P., Knapp, K. M., Fulford, J., Finnigan, T. J. A., Dirks, M. L., Stephens, F. B., & Wall, B. T. (2023). Vegan and omnivorous high protein diets support comparable daily myofibrillar protein synthesis rates and skeletal muscle hypertrophy in young adults. The Journal of Nutrition, 153(6), 1680–1695. Rauber, F., da Costa Louzada, M. L., Chang, K., Huybrechts, I., Gunter, M. J., Monteiro, C. A., Vamos, E. P., & Levy, R. B. (2024). Implications of food ultra-processing on cardiovascular risk considering plant origin foods: An analysis of the UK Biobank cohort. The Lancet Regional Health – Europe, 43, 100948. Román, S., Sánchez-Siles, L. M., & Siegrist, M. (2017). The importance of food naturalness for consumers: Results of a systematic review. Trends in Food Science & Technology, 67, 44–57. Toh, D. W. K., Fu, A. S., Mehta, K. A., Lam, N. Y. L., Haldar, S., & Henry, C. J. (2024). Plant-based meat analogs and their effects on cardiometabolic health: An 8-week randomized controlled trial comparing plant-based meat analogs with their corresponding animal-based foods. The American Journal of Clinical Nutrition, 119(6), 1405–1416.

Met vandaag: Kamer bijgepraat over zoekgeraakte datakluis toeslagenaffaire | Wie is de extreemrechtse Israëlische minister Ben-Gvir? | Nederland haalt groot gedeelte goudvoorraad weg uit VS en Canada | Schrijver Paul van Loon over 30 jaar Dolfje Weerwolfje | Presentatie: Rob Trip

We're wrapping up our summer break with a revisit to one of North America's most iconic birds: the Common Loon!We'll be back next week with brand-new episodes, but before we do, we're heading back to one of our favorite conversations about this unmistakable bird. From their striking black-and-white plumage and incredible diving abilities to the haunting calls that echo across northern lakes, Common Loons are truly fascinating birds.And speaking of that famous sound—we're going to play a Common Loon call right before the episode begins! We talk a lot about their different vocalizations and that iconic call throughout the episode, so we wanted everyone to hear it before we dive in.Join Field Museum Curators of Birds Dr. John Bates and Dr. Shannon Hackett, along with RJ and Amanda, as we explore the biology, behavior, vocalizations, and natural history of the Common Loon.Whether you've heard a loon calling across a lake, spotted one while birding, or are just discovering what makes these birds so special, we hope you enjoy revisiting this episode with us.Birds of a Feather Talk Together is a birding and ornithology podcast for everyone—from experienced birders to people just beginning to discover the world of birds.

Michael sits down with Joel Vanderloom, wilderness survival instructor, primitive skills expert, hunter, and former Alone contestant, for a story-driven conversation that moves from South Africa to Oregon and from bushcraft to big game. Joel shares how early lessons in tracking, spearfishing, and time with the Hadza shaped his hunting philosophy, then gets into two standout hunts that show why patience, intuition, and respect for the animal matter so much. We discuss the ethics of hunting, how predators and prey are often discussed unfairly, and what it looks like to hunt with humility instead of ego. Along the way, Joel also explains how he developed his survival and bushcraft background, and why elk hunting in thick timber became such a defining part of his life. Www.primalskillsacademy.com In the bush podcast YouTube @joelvanderloon Instagram @joelvanderloon ⁠Hunting Stories Links⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Want to be a guest?⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Terug van vakantie komen eerst Japan en Frankrijk en hun EV-ontwikkelingen aan bod. In EV-nieuws wordt besproken: de Ford Puma Gen-E Black Edition, updates Renault 5 en Genesis GV90. Daarnaast hebben Jasper en Joeri het over de EV Experience en dat over ERE-vergoedingen geen loonbelasting hoeft te worden betaald. Gereden is er met de Franse Devinci. Een zeer speciale elektrische auto! 

Baby's back! Gaby joins Hannah and Marcelle for a long, Canadian-forward check in and a very important (and also Canadian) Consumer Retorts. Join us on Patreon for Part II and plenty of BoCo (bonus content, just a new thing we're trying out).Support Material GirlsTo learn more about the show, head to our Instagram at instagram.com/ohwitchplease! Or check out our website ohwitchplease.ca (you can also find transcripts here!). You can gift a Patreon subscription at this link: https://www.patreon.com/ohwitchplease/gift!Music Credits:“Shopping Mall”: by Jay Arner and Jessica Delisle ©2020Used by permission. All rights reserved. As recorded by Auto Syndicate on the album “Bongo Dance”. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Baby's back! Gaby joins Hannah and Marcelle for a long, Canadian-forward check in and a very important (and also Canadian) Consumer Retorts. Join us on Patreon for Part II and plenty of BoCo (bonus content, just a new thing we're trying out).Support Material GirlsTo learn more about the show, head to our Instagram at instagram.com/ohwitchplease! Or check out our website ohwitchplease.ca (you can also find transcripts here!). You can gift a Patreon subscription at this link: https://www.patreon.com/ohwitchplease/gift!Music Credits:“Shopping Mall”: by Jay Arner and Jessica Delisle ©2020Used by permission. All rights reserved. As recorded by Auto Syndicate on the album “Bongo Dance”. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Met Think Faster, Talk Smarter leer je hoe je effectiever kunt communiceren. Matt Abrahams legt uit hoe je overtuigender en succesvoller je punt kunt maken. Uitgegeven door Kosmos Uitgevers Spreker: Jurjen van Loon

August 22 is the birthday of renowned French composer, Claude Debussy. Born in 1862, Debussy is known for his impressionistic sonic portraits, like La Mer, about the sea. But one of his best known works is an earlier piano piece, Clair de Lune. The song is quiet and haunting. Which got us thinking: what if we paired it with the most haunting birdsong — the song of loons? Enjoy Clair de Loon. Download the song here.  Created for BirdNote by Breakmaster Cylinder. More info and transcript at BirdNote.org. Want more BirdNote? Subscribe to our weekly newsletter. Sign up for BirdNote+ to get ad-free listening and other perks.  BirdNote is a nonprofit. Your tax-deductible gift makes these shows possible. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

From Indian classical music and Mediterranean roots to European improvisation, deep grooves, live vibes, electronic experimentation, and beyond. Enjoy another playlist featuring projects where tradition gets lovingly bent out of shape. The playlist features Club d'Elf; Ragini Trio; Phoenix Trio [pictured]; Tito Mangialajo Rantzer; Benoit Delbecq, Francesco Diodati, Francesco Bigoni, Steve Argüelles; Francesco Bigoni, Almut Kuhne, Mark Solborg; Tellkujira. Detailed playlist at https://spinitron.com/RFB/pl/22857766/Mondo-Jazz (from "Loon and Thrush" to "Tarantella"). Happy listening! Photo: Jimmy Katz

In the first episode of the Relevance Project, Cole sits down with the teams at SkyGOAT, Kitworks, and Loon'r to understand where each brand is starting, what they want organic content to accomplish, and how they'll measure progress along the way. The conversations reveal a shared challenge. The brands have audiences, products, and stories worth telling, but they haven't yet built a consistent organic content system that creates engagement, strengthens the brand, and continues working even when paid media is turned off. This episode goes behind the scenes of establishing those benchmarks and introduces the larger experiment ahead: developing content that leads with value, earns attention, and *might* create a more durable path to growth. About: This podcast is produced by Port Side, a creative agency that helps outdoor brands build relevance, recognition, and attention.    Enjoy this episode and discover other resources below: Relevance Project | We're building three brands in public. Follow along Email List | Follow along as we build in public by joining our email list  Slack Community | Tired of brainstorming with ChatGPT? Join us! Insight Deck | Want 20 of our favorite insights shared on the show?  LinkedIn | Join the conversation and share ideas with other industry peers. Apple Podcast | Want to help us out? Leave us a review on Apple. Guest List | Have a Guest in Mind?  Share them with us here.

For more coverage on the issues that matter to you, download the WMAL app, visit WMAL.com or tune in live on WMAL-FM 105.9 from 9:00am-12:00pm Monday-Friday  To join the conversation, check us out on Twitter @WMAL and @ChrisPlanteShow Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Nederlanders geven steeds meer uit aan gezondheid, zelfzorg en beautyproducten, maar zelfstandige drogisten staan onder druk door de groei van ketens, webshops en de invloed van sociale media. Tegelijkertijd dreigt wetgeving de markt verder op te schudden, doordat bepaalde geneesmiddelen straks mogelijk ook buiten de drogist verkrijgbaar worden. Marinus van Loon, voorzitter van de Koninklijke Nederlandse Drogisten Bond is te gast in BNR Zakendoen. Macro met Mujagić/Boot Elke dag een intrigerende gedachtewisseling over de stand van de macro-economie. Op maandag en vrijdag gaat presentator Thomas van Zijl in gesprek met econoom Arnoud Boot, de rest van de week praat Van Zijl met econoom Edin Mujagić. Ook altijd terug te vinden als je een aflevering gemist hebt. Blik op de wereld Wat speelt zich vandaag af op het wereldtoneel? Het laatste nieuws uit bijvoorbeeld Oekraïne, het Midden-Oosten, de Verenigde Staten of Brussel hoor je iedere werkdag om 12.10 van onze vaste experts en eigen redacteuren en verslaggevers. Ook los te vinden als podcast. Beleggerspanel Steven van Rijswijk, topman bij ING, vindt dat er te veel banken in Europa zijn... en hij weet wat hij daaraan wil doen.. En: een 24-jarige zogenaamde ‘wonderbelegger’ is een van de slachtoffers van de koersdalingen bij AI-bedrijven. Dat en meer bespreekt presentator Thomas van Zijl vanaf 11.00 in het beleggerspanel met: Jos Versteeg, analist bij InsingerGillissen en Wim Zwanenburg van Stroeve & Lemberger Luister l Economenpanel Zakenlunch Elke dag, tijdens de lunch, geniet je mee van het laatste zakelijke nieuws, actuele informatie over de financiële markten en ander economische actualiteiten. Op een ontspannen manier word je als luisteraar bijgepraat over alles wat er speelt in de wereld van het bedrijfsleven en de beurs. En altijd terug te vinden als podcast, mocht je de lunch gemist hebben. Contact & Abonneren BNR Zakendoen zendt elke werkdag live uit van 11:00 tot 13:30 uur. Je kunt de redactie bereiken via e-mail. Abonneren op de podcast van BNR Zakendoen kan via bnr.nl/zakendoen, of via Apple Podcast en Spotify. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

A liberal woman took her kids to the dentist the other day. The dentist is a Christian and he had placed Bibles in the waiting room. That apparently set off this lady who fired off an angry rant on social media. She was so triggered by the presence of God’s Word that she canceled the appointment. The woman defended her rant by saying that America is not a Christian nation and she did not appreciate a private business putting Bibles in the waiting room. Well, I hate to break it to this lady – but America is a country where we embrace religious liberty. And a private business owner can put whatever he wants in the lobby of his lobby. Honest to goodness – the intolerance of these liberals is something to behold. Not sure what’s worse – getting a root canal or being forced to listen to an unhinged, far-left loon. At least you get drugs with the root canal. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Die DA het sy oproep herhaal vir volle deursigtigheid oor elke aanstelling by die huidige Nasionale Finansiële Hulpskema vir Studente, insluitend die vergoeding, mandate en goedkeuringsprosesse vir adviseurs en konsultante. Dit volg nadat die Nasionale Tesourie die minister van Hoër Onderwys en Opleiding, Buti Manamela, se voorgestelde vergoedingspakket van 11-miljoen Suid-Afrikaanse rand vir die Nsfas-administrateur Hlengani Mathebula verwerp het. Delmaine Christians van die DA sê Manamela moet die Parlement antwoord oor hoe hy hierdie voorstel as aanvaarbaar beskou terwyl studente steeds vertraagde befondsing ervaar:

This is the Hedkandi Radio Show with Mark Doyle Leave Me Alone (feat. Aziza Jaye)-The Allergies Heat (Anoraak Remix)-Kraak & Smaak and Butter Bath Vida Boa (Mijangos Remix)-Luis Radio, Mijangos Ipanema Jazz (Sean McCabe Basement Mix)-MDA Grooves, Sean McCabe All This Love (Emmaculate Remix)-Soul In The Horn, Jaime Woods, Bobby DeBarge Jr., Emmaculate Lift Me Up (Original Mix)-Domenico Albanese, Michael Float Away For The Good Times-Yousef Everybody Loves The Sunshine (Emmaculate Extended Remix)-Nova Fronteira, Emmaculate Sweet Redemption (Bustin Loose Remix)-The Wild Violets Hot (Original Mix)-Blonde Boys Orphanage Playin Games (Nudisco Retro Clubmix) (Nudisco Retro Clubmix)-Adri Block, Block&Crown Wear Me Down (Extended Mix)-Mirko & Meex Don't Give Up (Extended Mix)-Kid Massive Falling Into Time (Migs Vocal Revision)-Miguel Migs, Lisa Shaw Joyful Noise (Extended Mix)-Revival House Project, Nambi This Life Living (2026 Club Vocal Mix)-Marc Cotterell Get Closer-Sgt Slick Ultra Boogie White Label Sessions Part 1 (Groovin' At 3 PM)-Block & Crown Disco Juice (Extended)-Cristoph Funkette (Extended Mix)-Rag It Began In Africa-Saliva Commandos Let Me Show You (Slipmatt & Odyssey Inc. Remix)-K-Klass, Bobbi Depasois, Slipmatt, Odyssey Inc. I Need You (Extended Mix)-Keith Mac Alright (Extended Mix)-Tenacious, Roland Clark Rich In Paradise (Sgt Slick ReCut)-FPI Project    / hedkandi     / hedkandi   http://www.mixcloud.com/hedkandi http://www.hedkandi.com/events Created by Mark Doyle and launching as a radio show on Jazz FM back in 1999, Hedkandi evolved into a global dance music phenomenon. We began releasing music under our own imprint and created well over 200 compilations, returning 16 Top 10 Singles and 7 Top 5 Albums. It wasn't long before Hedkandi began hosting legendary parties across the world, with residencies spanning the UK, Europe, Middle East, Asia, and the Americas. Hedkandi celebrated its 20th Anniversary in 2019 with the return of Mark Doyle who curated the anniversary events. At the start of 2020 Mark returned to the brand full time after brokering an exclusive worldwide licence to represent Hedkandi events. 5 years later Hedkandi is back Worldwide with more feet on the dance-floor, more hands in the air and more listeners to our radio show than ever before. ➠ For bookings and events contact: mark@hedkandi.com The Hedkandi radioshow is produced by Mike van Loon, Mark Henderson & Lil Joey.

The Guy Benson Show 07-20-2026 Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

In dit vierde deel van de serie kunnen Rik en Jesper (Glowmovies) de beste prijs ooit winnen: een leven lang gratis frikandelbroodjes. Komisch en spannend verhaal voor 7+. Uitgegeven door Kosmos Uitgevers Sprekers: Jurjen van Loon, Ruben Brinkman

Congrats to three lucky guests from our EP100 Giveaway Competition! It's been an amazing few years and 100 episodes, here's a few favourites from other participants of Alone, and a wild African spear hunters tale from the Eastern Cape. Thanks again everyone, here's to another 100 episodes!Give Robin and The Wild Dispatch a follow on Instagram, Facebook, and YouTubeGet ready for a diverse episode blending exciting contest announcements, gripping outdoor adventures, survival stories, and ethical hunting insights. Robin shares behind-the-scenes moments of a podcast competition, followed by intense narratives from seasoned adventure and hunting experts, revealing raw emotions and incredible wildlife experiences.Main Topics Covered:Announcing winners of a wilderness podcast contest and the behind-the-scenes processAn in-depth recount of a solo wilderness hunting experience, focusing on tracking, hunting strategies, and emotional resilienceThe story of a grappling encounter with a highly aggressive bushbuck, showcasing extraordinary animal behavior and human ingenuityInsights into outdoor gear preparation, clothing strategies for cold environments, and psychological tactics like stoicism and self-affirmationRobin announces the top three winners from San Jose and Minnesota with a live draw processAubrey Tibbury recounts wresting and suffocating a wounded bushbuck with a jersey as a makeshift tourniquetAn exploration of a hunter's meticulous gear preparation, especially handmade clothing suitable for Arctic-like conditionsEmotional reflections on the risks, disappointments, and mental resilience involved in hunting larger game like mooseDiscussions on ethical hunting challenges, wildlife tracking, and the importance of mental readiness in survival situationsPhilosophical insights into the human drive, driven by seeking approval and deep personal valuesChapters:00:00 - Contest Winners02:04 - Episode Setup04:19 - Bushbuck Story07:11 - Solo Survival09:10 - Tracking Techniques14:02 - Moose Hunt18:02 - Ethical Tracking22:34 - Lost Game26:21 - Mental Resilience28:01 - Personal Drive32:20 - Purpose Shift33:41 - Show Prep36:13 - Homestead Build40:23 - Support System43:24 - Sacrifice48:06 - Cold Gear53:48 - Facing Fear57:08 - Bushbuck Encounter63:22 - Survival Tactics67:13 - Final Reflections

Are on board for Sugar Tots or not?

In this episode of Happy Vermont, host Erica Houskeeper explores the story of the common loon's recovery in Vermont.   Inspired by a personal encounter with a loon call after her brother's passing on Sherman Reservoir, Erica meets experts Eric Hanson and Eloise Girard of the Vermont Center for Ecostudies to talk about the conservation successes and ongoing challenges facing these iconic birds.   Tune in to hear about loons' unique calls, the threats they've overcome, and their presence on Vermont's lakes, ponds and and reservoirs.    Visit Happy Vermont https://happyvermont.com   Subscribe to Happy Vermont's newsletter https://mailchi.mp/happyvermont/subscribe-to-happy-vermont   Support Happy Vermont on Patreon  https://www.patreon.com/c/happyvermontpodcast/membership  

Sponsored By:→ Neuro | Go to ⁠https://getneuro.com⁠ and use code ONEDAY at checkout for 15% OFF your entire order.You're optimizing your supplement stack. You're tracking your macros. You're sleeping eight hours. And you're washing it all down with water that's sitting in plastic that's been baking on a truck in 100 degree heat for three weeks.Jon Bier sits down with Clara Sieg — co-founder of Loonen and former venture investor — for a conversation about the most overlooked input in the entire wellness conversation. Water. The category that built its entire identity on pictures of waterfalls and asked consumers to just trust them. Clara got pregnant, started paying attention, and found out that no natural source in the US she tested was entirely free of contaminants. So she built something that paired spring sourcing with stainless steel processing, physical membrane filtration, and NSF certification — and put it in glass. Every time.This isn't fear mongering. It's just information and most people don't have it.In this episode:• Why 50% of US tap water tests positive for lead and forever chemicals and why the bottled water sitting in plastic on a hot truck might not be solving the problem you think it is• How Clara went from a panic during pregnancy to six months testing water sources across the US, and why every single one had a footnote• What it actually takes to build a cleaner water brand in the most competitive, public-company-dominated beverage category on the shelf and why being naive enough to start was an advantage.Find Clara & Loonen:• Clara on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/sieg/• Loonen: https://loonen.com/• Loonen on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/loonenwater/Timestamps:0:00 — Intro1:12 — Why water is the real foundation of wellness2:15 — How bad is US tap water?4:14 — The bottled water myth: microplastics and leaching7:08 — Jon's $12K arsenic wake-up call9:32 — What plastic bottles actually do to your water12:46 — How Lunan sources and filters its water16:33 — Sponsor: Neurogum17:24 — The spring water myth21:46 — "Pure but proven": NSF and 350+ contaminant testing24:03 — The organic-certification parallel & Clara's mom27:50 — Why this is personal: IVF and fertility29:18 — Building an explosive brand & the bottle design38:06 — The Loon, the name & understated branding42:26 — What's next: single-serve, national rollout, flavors

Yerba Loon Productions with Nick & Mai are filmmakers form Minnesota and Argentina. We get to know more about their process as both filmmakers and actors. Learn about what they've been up to for films. Linktree https://linktr.ee/filmandbeyond www.filmandbeyond.com Follow us on Instagram: @filmandbeyondpod YouTube www.youtube.com/@filmandbeyondpod Donate to our Patreon www.patreon.com/filmandbeyond

Jimmy and Tyler are back from very different weekends that somehow both ended the same way: hanging out with people you don’t see enough, doing stuff you love, and getting home before dark. Tyler took his toddler, Reid, out on the Rubicon for the first time, joining the Mad Hatters’ annual run at Loon. The trip came with an unexpected education: when you normally run sweep, you get out at every stop and help people. When you’re strapped to the car with a two-year-old, you’re sitting in the driver’s seat watching everyone else work for 15-minute stretches while your kid starts losing patience. By the time the group reached Spider Bowl around 10:30 am, Tyler pulled off at a campsite, radioed a goodbye, had lunch, and watched a Toyota pickup spend 30 minutes trying and failing to get up Super Bowl while Reid stood in the bed pointing at things and making everyone laugh. Two hours there, then out solo with Reid in the front seat, the air compressor cycling the rear locker, and Reid looking over every time to announce “dad tooting.” Home before 4 pm. Left at 5 am. Not a bad day. Jimmy left the assistant on her last day of school and drove up to dispersed camping near Bowman Road off Highway 20 — a trip organized around a group of high school friends he doesn’t see nearly enough, some of whom he hasn’t camped with in years. They came with trucks, a rooftop tent, a box of whiskey, handguns, a .22 rifle, Brandon’s breakfast burritos, and a set of homemade medallion awards for the weekend’s various competitions. The competitions included a shooting match (7 shooters, 10 rounds apiece at three stations — 210 shots hit paper across the board, which Jimmy found genuinely impressive), forest bocce (where bocce balls bounce off rocks and go 90 degrees), and a campfire tending category. Jimmy got fourth in the shooting competition, first in fire. He also got shot, sort of — a ricochet fragment hit one of the guys in the shoulder and another in the shin, both minor, first aid kits came out, everyone reevaluated, then they ran the formal shooting competition anyway. The guy who got hit (Michael — friend of a friend, first time meeting) turned out to be a serious whiskey person. Jimmy is also a serious whiskey person. Neither of them knew the other was bringing four bottles. They spent hours trading sips and talking. It was a great trip. They’re making it annual. SnailTrail4x4 Discord: https://discord.gg/yFyFFkQbuyCome hang out with us on the SnailTrail4x4 Discord — it’s the easiest way to connect with Tyler and Jimmy directly, chat with fellow offroad enthusiasts, and get first access to Group Buys and Treasure Hunt token drops. MORRFlate Giveaway at 900 Reviews on Apple Podcast. But our next giveaway is when we reach 800 reviews; we are giving away an OnX Elite Membership. We will also give away an OnX Elite membership when we get to 850. However, when we reach 900 Reviews, we are teaming up with MORRFlate for a $1000 MF Product Giveaway. Go over to Apple Podcasts to leave your review now and become eligible to win. Congratulations to A13XMONT, who won a set of tires from Yokohama Tire! Call us and leave us a VOICEMAIL!!! We want to hear from you even more!!! You can call and say whatever you like! Ask a question, leave feedback, correct some information about welding, say how much you hate your Jeep, and wish you had a Toyota! We will air them all, live, on the podcast! +01-916-345-4744. If you have any negative feedback, you can call our negative feedback hotline, 408-800-5169. 4Wheel Underground has all the suspension parts you need to take your off-road rig from leaf springs to a performance suspension system. We just ordered our kits for Kermit and Samantha and are looking forward to getting them. The ordering process was quite simple, and after answering the questionnaire, we ensured we got the correct and best-fitting kits for our vehicles. If you want to level up your suspension game, check out 4Wheel Underground. SnailTrail4x4 Podcast is brought to you by all of our peeps over at irate4x4! Make sure to stop by and see all of the great perks you get for supporting SnailTrail4x4! Discount Codes, Monthly Give-Always, Gift Boxes, the SnailTrail4x4 Community, and the ST4x4 Treasure Hunt! Thank you to all of those who support us! We couldn’t do it without you guys (and gals!)! SnailSquad Monthly Giveaway This month’s giveaway is with Iceco Freezers. We are excited to work with and share their exciting new releases. One lucky winner has a chance to an ALP20 Fridge. Big thanks to Iceco for sponsoring this month’s giveaway. If you want a chance to win, sign up for the Giveaway Tier on Irate4x4 Congrats to Johnny Freskie, you won the Rusoh Fire Extinguishers. We have one of their 2.5-pound extinguishers to give away to a lucky winner. This extinguisher has an 18-year shelf life and is the best fire extinguisher for any off-road vehicle. To learn more, check out Rusoh.com. If you want a chance to win, sign up for the Giveaway Tier on Irate4x4 Listener Discount Codes: SnailTrail4x4 –SnailTrail15 for 15% off SnailTrail4x4 MerchMORRFlate – snailtraill4x4 to get 10% off MORRFlate Multi Tire Inflation Deflation™ Kits4WheelUnderground – snailtrail 10% offIronman 4×4 – snailtrail20 to get 20% off all Ironman 4×4 branded equipment!Sidetracked Offroad – snailtrail4x4 (lowercase) to get 15% off lights and recovery gearSpartan Rope – snailtrail4x4 to get 10% off sitewideShock Surplus – SNAILTRAIL4x4 to get $25 off any order!Mob Armor – SNAILTRAIL4X4 for 15% offSummerShine Supply – ST4x4 for 10% offBackpacker’s Pantry – Affiliate LinkLaminx Protective Films – Use the Link to get 20% off all products (Affiliate Link) Show Music: Midroll Music – ComaStudio Outroll Music – Meizong Kumbang

In this episode of *The Clay Edwards Show*, Clay breaks down the latest developments in the Covington County Deputy Yates Rodney shooting case. A Covington County deputy reached out directly to Clay with an inside account of what actually happened during the shootout in Mt. Olive, confirming that Deputy Rodney did not shoot first and that both suspects fired on officers before Rodney and his partner returned fire. Clay also addresses the ongoing narrative being pushed by certain online personalities tied to the “Brady List” and “Loon Squad” circles, who have attempted to paint Deputy Rodney as a “dirty cop.” He highlights how one of these individuals tried (and failed) to set up a GoFundMe for the deputy while simultaneously posting disrespectful “Officer Down” imagery the same day Rodney was shot. The conversation also covers Justin Fowler's recent 5-year sentence and how these same groups continue to operate with a clear anti-law enforcement agenda while pretending to be neutral watchdogs. This episode cuts through the noise and focuses on facts, accountability, and the growing pattern of certain online figures using serious incidents for clicks and clout.

Become a Distance to Empty subscriber!: https://www.patreon.com/DistancetoEmptyPod Get some free DTE Swag by supporting out sponsors!⁠⁠https://janji.com/pages/distance-to-empty⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ and be sure to select 'podcast' > 'Distance to Empty' on the post purchase "How did you hear about Janji" page. Thank you!Check out Mount to Coast here: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://mounttocoast.com/discount/Distance⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Code IRON at www.goodranchers.com and mention us in the post purchase survey!The Tahoe 200 Goes All the Way Around Again — 2026 Course Preview with Jameson CollinsFor the first time since 2019, the Tahoe 200 is a true full loop—no out-and-back, no fire detour, just 200+ miles circumnavigating Lake Tahoe. Kevin and Peter sit down with Jameson Collins, Destination Trail's HQ manager and course marking director, who just spent a week hanging dragons and ribbons across the entire course. Fresh off the trail, Jameson walks us through the loop aid station by aid station, with current-as-of-race-week intel on snow, water, blowdown, and everything in between.This year's race is a tale of two courses: a wild, remote, technical first ~100 miles through the Caldor Fire scar and forgotten corners of the El Dorado National Forest, then a return to the smooth, groomed "fairytale" Tahoe Rim Trail experience from Barker Pass home. Jameson breaks down where you'll be post-holing through soft snow (and why microspikes won't save you), which sections feel like bushwhacking dragon-to-dragon, where the jeeps will be crawling up Cadillac Hill, and why Wrights-to-Loon is the single hardest leg out there.Plus: gear and spike strategy, dressing for the brush and burn scars, the three sleep stations (Wrights Lake, Barker Pass, Brockway Summit), where the course dries out and water gets scarce, the brutal final climb under the Heavenly ski lifts, and Jameson's best advice for anyone tempted to quit with hours of cushion still in the bank.Race starts Friday, June 12 at 9 AM. 105-hour cutoff. Heavenly Stagecoach Lodge start/finish. Pacers allowed from Loon Lake (mile 87.6).Guest: Jameson Collins — Destination Trail HQ manager, course marking director, and founder of Huda Trail.

We discuss what natural New Zealand materials should be used for the Michael Boxall statue, we get you caught up on what's happening, or not happening, with a former Loon at the World Cup, and we'll check in on FIFA as they again try to ruin the greatest sporting event in the world with yet another money grab.    BlueSky: @loonybinpodcast.bsky.social Dan Elias (@oyvey2you.bsky.social) Matt Leaf (@mnloonlet.bsky.social) Email: theloonybinpod@gmail.com Email Dan: dan@theloonybinpod.com Email Matt: matt@theloonybinpod.com  Website: theloonybinpod.com Insta: instagram.com/theloonybinpod YouTube: youtube.com/@loonybinpodcast

Send us Fan MailThe East Coast trail running season flips on fast, and suddenly you're staring down wet descents, ski-slope climbs, and a start line packed with people who have nothing to lose. We sit down with mountain runner and race director Aimee Kohler right before Sunapee to get practical about how you actually prepare for a short, brutally competitive mountain race when life is already full. She's coming off injury, rebuilding fitness in a compressed training block, and still managing a spring race directing calendar that leaves “balance” feeling like a myth. We dig into what makes a two-loop course tricky, why loop one can bait you into going out too hot, and how Amy thinks about positioning so she can attack when the second loop gets longer and more technical. She calls out the glades descent as the make-or-break section and shares how she's approaching pacing with restraint early so she can hammer late. If you love skyrunning, mountain running, and East Coast trail racing, you'll recognize the stakes: the moment you hesitate, the field swarms. Then we go full gear nerd, from traction and outsole feel to what Amy plans to race in (Hoka Zinal 3) and what she trains in when the miles get longer. We wrap with her summer schedule and big goals, including Whiteface, Loon, Escarpment, and Grindstone 50K with UTMB OCC qualification on the horizon, plus a look behind the curtain at Running Kind events and the logistical chaos of directing a Backyard Ultra where you can't predict the finish time. Subscribe, share this with a training partner, and leave a review, then tell us: do you race loop one conservative or go on the attack?Follow Aimee on IG - @aimskohLooking for more fun races in the Northeast? Check out The Running Kind ! - @therunningkind_ / The Running KindThe Running Kind Races ->  @therunningkindUse code SteepStuff for 20% your cart on Sidas.usFollow James on IG - @jameslaurielloFollow the Steep Stuff Podcast on IG - @steepstuff_podFollow Sidas USA on IG - @sidas_usa

Today we're chatting with Lexis Zenobia , a full-time artist and vintage dealer, the owner of Ladies of the Loon — which is doing something really unique – this is a vintage brand that has taken a truly singular path in the resale world, one paved entirely in vintage mohair. A little background, Lexis grew up in Wisconsin, and came of age in Milwaukee's vintage scene. She launched a fashion photography business at 18, and spent several years on the road in an RV, selling vintage out of the back and collecting pieces across the American West.  But it wasn't until she became the steward of a one-of-a-kind vintage mohair collection that everything changed for Lexis. Today, you're going to hear the story of a find beyond her wildest dreams: thousands of vintage and hand-knit mohair pieces, spanning from the 1920s onward, capes, gowns, skirts, sweaters — including a collection of nearly 200 hand-knit Italian cardigans from the 1950s and 60s. This is a collection so significant, it should be shown in a gallery. On today's episode, we get into all of it: how a sleepless night and a full moon set this whole thing in motion, why Lexi made the bold decision to sell off her entire existing inventory and go all in on mohair, what makes this textile so special to photograph and to wear, and the pieces — that sold in minutes which she still thinks about. All that and more! Let's dive right in! DISCUSSED IN THE EPISODE: [5:16] Early memories of Lexis vintage shopping with her mom, including an antique store in a rural barn. [7:50] Her career in vintage actually started with fashion photography. [11:04] She originally became a vintage dealer because she needed to do a big closet cleanout, and it accidentally launched a decade-long career.  [14:31] How COVID reshaped the business  [18:16] How she became the steward of a one-of-a-kind vintage mohair collection, spanning from the 1920s onward. [26:35] Why vintage mohair is a special textile, nicknamed "the diamond fiber" [29:39] The Italian handknit mohair cardigans  [31:08] On the decision to wholesale her existing collection and focus singularly on vintage mohair.  [37:44] Her dream to show the mohair collection in a gallery  [41:05] How to care for vintage mohair  [47:18] The two mohair pieces that sold in minutes and that she still thinks about  [52:46] On her personal style and memorable pieces EPISODE MENTIONS:  Ladies of the Loon Midwest Vintage Flea SUDESTADA Gallery "Wool Skirts," an exhibition of one woman's 40-year thrift-store collection, reveals a rich tapestry of clothing manufacturing and feminist history. – The New York Times The Black Web dress Bleu Boy Vintage Thank You Vintage   LET'S CONNECT: 

As the day turns to night the moon peaks out gentle waves lap ashore and a pair of loons sing out their haunting calls.Download the White Noise App for continuous playback.© TMSOFT All rights reserved.

Former Bad Boy rapper Loon (Amir Muhadith) returns to Freshly Grounded for one of the deepest conversations we've ever had. From growing up on the streets of Harlem to becoming Muslim, serving as an imam in prison, studying in Egypt, and now building one of the most ambitious Muslim animation projects we've seen, Amir reflects on the lessons that shaped his life. We discuss prison culture, why so many people return after release, the role Islam played in giving him freedom and purpose, marriage and family, the importance of knowledge, masculinity, brotherhood, and the responsibility of being a positive influence in your community. Amir also gives an exclusive insight into "The Amir of Harlem" — a high-quality animated series tackling the real challenges facing Muslim youth today. Topics include: • Why prison became his greatest classroom • The mistake that keeps people trapped long after prison ends • How Islam transformed his understanding of freedom • Leadership, brotherhood and serving your community • Marriage, family and choosing the right spouse • The forgotten wisdom of our grandparents • Why young Muslims need better stories and role models • The vision behind The Amir of Harlem • His upcoming book: From Harlem to the Harem Enjoy. — Freshly Grounded Support our clean water campaign: https://www.launchgood.com/v4/campaign/water_for_life__freshly_grounded?utm_source=tribe.freshlygrounded.com&utm_medium=newsletter&utm_campaign=do-you-worry-too-much&_bhlid=9109c533560f44d657932fb494aee5c1c09414fe Follow Amir: https://www.instagram.com/loon.tv/

Welcome Back To So Shameless!! This week we welcome Loon of The Hard Or Soft Show and DJ BenHaMeen of the For All Nerds podcast to talk the new Drake release and where we stand with the project or.. projects. Hilarious episode! ENJOY!Tune in this thursday for part two or head to Patreon to hear the full episode AD FREE right now!Socials:Loon@KingLoonthe1st on InstagramBen@DJBenhameen on all social media platformsTune into his show @ForAllNerds on all streaming platforms and Youtube!

Loons are built for life in the water – so much so that their legs don't work well on land. During migration, loons sometimes mistake wet pavement for the reflective surface of deep water and try to land there, then become unable to take flight again. If you see a stranded loon on a road or parking lot, calling a wildlife rehabilitator can help start the process of returning that bird to safety and back on their migratory journey. This episode is brought to you by Wild Delight Bird Food, which aims to support wild bird populations with clean, nutritious ingredients in every blend. Available at Chewy. More info and transcript at BirdNote.org. Want more BirdNote? Subscribe to our weekly newsletter. Sign up for BirdNote+ to get ad-free listening and other perks.  BirdNote is a nonprofit. Your tax-deductible gift makes these shows possible. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

The lunatics are truly running the asylum formerly known as the White House. Sadly, a man who collects raccoon genitalia running the HHS isn't even the craziest of the bunch. Norm Ornstein and David Rothkopf are back to try and navigate the insanity of this Trump's self-imposed Iran quagmire and the levels of nuttiness in Trumpworld.  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

The lunatics are truly running the asylum formerly known as the White House. Sadly, a man who collects raccoon genitalia running the HHS isn't even the craziest of the bunch. Norm Ornstein and David Rothkopf are back to try and navigate the insanity of this Trump's self-imposed Iran quagmire and the levels of nuttiness in Trumpworld.  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Dharma Dragonfly notices a little loon following her on her afternoon dance. What is going on? Narrator: Female Story Begins: 4:02 Lost Little Loon Excerpt: The dragonfly decided to keep an eye on the little loon as she continued her flight. Every time Dharma zipped in one direction, the loon paddled that way too. When Dharma slowed down and hovered in the air, the loon stopped and watched. “Hmm…that little loon seems to be following me,” thought Dharma. She decided to test this idea. She flew in a quick zigzag across the pond. Sure enough, the loon paddled in the same direction, following the path Dharma had taken. Today's Meditation: Picture floating in the safe and comforting waters of a tranquil pool. Creating the original bedtime stories and art for Be Calm on Ahway Island takes a lot of time and care. As a listener-supported podcast, we truly appreciate our members on Patreon. If you’re not already a member, please consider joining! Writing, recording, editing, and publishing episodes and managing digital platforms is an enormous endeavor. Our Patreon program will help continue to grow Ahway Island and we hope you will support us! You can choose from 2 different Membership Levels, all of which include access to our Archives and extra episodes every other month! Are you and your children enjoying our stories and self-soothing meditations? Looking for stories with positive learning moments for your little one?  You’ll find them on Ahway Island®. Be Calm on Ahway Island® Podcast offers original bedtime stories, like “Mystery Jug,” paired with meditations for kids. We help them drift off to sleep with a guided relaxation and a calming story. Gently nestled within each podcast episode are mindfulness techniques and positive learning moments.  To learn more about our mission at Ahway Island and our team, please visit our website. In the press: Read about how and why we created Ahway Island in this feature from Global Comment! Zzz! The Boston Globe recommends “Be Calm on Ahway Island” as as one of “Eight Podcasts That Could Help You Get Some Sleep.” SheKnows recommends us as as a podcast you and your kids will love! Digital Trends warns listeners that “you may not make it through an entire episode fully conscious.” Yay! We're glad you spent this time with us today!

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