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In this episode, host Gary Jenkins, a retired Kansas City Police Intelligence Unit detective, sits down with author and mob expert Springs Toledo and discusses the Boston Winter Hill Gang and its notorious members. Springs' book, “Don’t Talk About Joe Mac: The Life, Wars, and Secret History of the Man Behind the Winter Hill Gang” Springs Toledo provides an exhaustive look at Joe McDonald aka Mac, a pivotal yet often overlooked figure in the Boston criminal landscape, especially during the 1960s-1990s. Springs, a Boston native, brings a unique perspective and personal anecdotes that enrich our understanding of the intersections of crime, family, and community within the city. They explore Joe Mac’s early life and how his background shaped his role in organized crime. Springs shares how Mac was an elder statesman in the underworld, feared and respected for his ability to organize the rackets in Somerville and maintain a significant network of relationships across various neighborhoods. Joe Mac's methods of operation were emblematic of a time when the Irish underworld was gaining ground in a city dominated by Italian crime families. Springs discusses the stark differences in these organizations, from their cultural practices to their hierarchies. Springs also highlights the complexities of Joe Mac's personal life, discussing his relationships with his family, especially his daughter Jacqueline. Their conversations reveal a side of Mac rarely seen in crime stories — a devoted father struggling with his dual identity as a loving parent and a cold-blooded criminal. Throughout the episode, Springs captures the essence of Mac's character, noting that while he was involved in heinous acts, he also exhibited genuine love for his family, a contradiction that adds depth to his narrative. As the conversation unfolds, we examine the dynamics within the Winter Hill Gang, particularly the relationships among Joe Mac, prominent figures like Whitey Bulger, and Howie Carr. Springs shares fascinating insights into Mac's cautious nature and strategic approach to power. He articulates how Mac operated in the shadows, steering clear of public scrutiny while effectively managing the group's criminal enterprises. The episode paints a vivid portrait of a gang operating amid violence, betrayal, and survival. In addition to discussing the various criminal exploits, Springs shares some gripping anecdotes that illustrate the real-life implications of this lifestyle. His stories about Joe’s attempts to balance family life while dodging law enforcement showcase the constant threat that loomed over their lives, encapsulating the dangerous allure and traumatizing consequences of organized crime. We also touch upon the significant events that defined the gang wars in Boston, including Joe Mac’s suspected involvement in notorious hits and how the landscape of crime shifted in response to law enforcement's increased focus on organized crime. Springs dives into the enigmatic character of Joe Mac, unraveling his military background, his unyielding commitment to the underworld, and how he managed to stay a step ahead of rivals and authorities alike. In closing, Springs reflects on the motivations behind his book—his desire to portray the human side of a man branded a monster while exploring the broader themes of morality, family, and the haunting legacy of crime. As we wrap up, it becomes clear that “Don’t Talk About Joe Mac” is not just a biography of an infamous crime figure, but a complex narrative that invites readers to ponder the true cost of a life steeped in organized crime. This episode is a riveting exploration of character, culture, and crime, offering audiences an engaging glimpse into the storied history of Boston organized crime, the Winter Hill gang through the lens of one of its most pivotal figures, Joe Mac. Hit me up on Venmo for a cup of coffee or a shot and a beer @ganglandwire Click here to “buy me a cup of coffee” Subscribe to the website for weekly notifications about updates and other Mob information. To go to the store or make a donation or rent Ballot Theft: Burglary, Murder, Coverup, click here To rent ‘Brothers against Brothers’ or ‘Gangland Wire,’ the documentaries click here.  To purchase one of my books, click here. Springs Toledo JOe mac Gary Jenkins: [00:00:00] hey, all your wire tappers out there. Gary Jenkins back here in the studio of Gangland Wire. I’m a retired Kansas City Police Intelligence unit detective, doing a podcast mainly about organized crime. We might stray into drugs every once in a while, but primarily about Italian based organized crime or, and then sometimes we get into Irish based organized crime. I’ve done a story on the Westie in the past and a few other stories like that. So today we’re gonna talk about the. Crossing of the Irish and and the Italians in Boston area, which is a really well known, famous story. A lot of great characters. And I have with me a man who wrote a book about this. Springs Toledo, welcome Springs. Springs Toledo: Thank you very much, Gary. Happy to be here. Gary Jenkins: Great. Now guys, the books is, don’t Talk about Joe Mack the Life Wars and Secret History of the Man Behind The Winter Hill Gang. And I’ve always wondered about this Winter Hill gang. I’ve always heard of it and Whitey Bulger came out of that and was so famous, but I’ve never really. [00:01:00] Seen anything or know anything about the background of it. And Springs, Toledo has somebody, a guy called Joe Mack that was involved in that and he’s really gone into it in depth. Springs, tell us a little bit about yourself, how you got into this. Springs Toledo: I’m a native of Boston, which did help, the accent helped open doors. Gary Jenkins: We can tell. Springs Toledo: But I don’t even try to hide it anymore. And I have a background in, in boxing, which also helps, that’s a breeding ground for, leg breakers and enforcers. Historically, in Boston, a lot of ex fighters became gangsters or, involved in that life. I went to Northeastern got a graduate degree in criminology. And I I didn’t, I never became a police officer. I worked with, actually with juvenile delinquents and troubled youth for many years. I’ve written several books some about boxing, some about an historical figure named John Brown, who’s an abolitionist, so I’m running the gamut. But Joe McDonald was a name that I heard whispered for many years, growing up. He had a very long criminal career over five decades.[00:02:00] And, so he was considered something very serious. But what I began to notice as the book started coming out after John Madano became a cooperating witness, as he’d say. Is that not much was known about this individual. What I knew is that he was about 20 years older than everybody else. So he’s an elder statesman in that world. So I started poking around. I know some guys who were involved in that life. I know some other guys who were very connected to very serious individuals who were active in the Boston Underworld during these years, the sixties, seventies, eighties, into the nineties. Yeah. So I started, asking around and the things I started to hear were very downright alarming about who this man was and that he was the guy not Whitey Bulger. There was what they’ll all tell you the deeper you get into the operators in that world is that Whitey Bulger is. Largely a mythology. And that in Somerville especially, he wasn’t really that respected. Joe Mack, however, was Joe Mack was, he [00:03:00] was the go-to guy. And upon doing all kinds of research, field research, but also I’m trying to corroborate everything. People are saying you can’t just take what people have to say at face value, especially if they’re, underworld figures. Yeah. A lot of ’em have a self-interest as so what I would do, I had a little strategy. What I would do is I would talk to one guy in Southie if I heard a story that sounded intriguing or something about Joe Mack, what have you, and then I’d try to find another guy in Somerville or East Boston or Hy Park who didn’t necessarily know that individual. And if the stories match, I’d look into it further. For instance, I wanna make sure the guy wasn’t in prison at that time, that he’s allegedly known to have done something. So that’s how I began to put together a picture. And what the u unanimously what I found out is that Joe McDonald was really the, he’s the one that put together organized crime in Somerville, centered in Winter Hill. He organized the launch sh the rackets loan, sharking booking, sports betting, all of that. And he was a very feared individual.[00:04:00] He looked like a building superintendent. He was balding. He, no, he was nothing flashy about him. He was family man. But so I started digging deeper and I got his military records, and then the picture really started to come together because of what he went through during World War II in the South Pacific and the trauma that he suffered. I didn’t wanna write a straight True crime book. So I wanted to do something different. I didn’t want it to be ordinary. I wanted it to be get underneath the behavior. It’s the, the criminology major is, was showing it’s yeah. Was coming to the fore. So I wanna get underneath it. So I consider this book more of a nonfiction noir. ‘Cause if you watch those old movies, a lot of ’em have a theme where you have, the main character, the anti-hero. These are movies from the forties, all black and white. All shadowy. Yeah. They come back from World War ii and they’re troubled. They’re shell-shocked. JoEM, Joe Mack came back and he’s marred. Something about his personality had changed and he’s one of the few individuals that I’ve encountered who [00:05:00] actually age into crime. He didn’t age out of it like everybody else. He aged into it. But he was very good at what he did. He was a brilliant individual. Very strong-willed. Someone said that I talked to, they said that, all the fear, whatever fear he had was knocked out of him, in SVO sound. When his ship went down, which was a USS Quincy with his brother on it. So he became a, began to emerge as a fascinating figure. But what. Made me decide to write the book was when I was hooked up with his daughter by TJ English. I reached out to him and he, he told me about Jackie McDonald. I reached out to her and I said, I’m thinking about writing a book about your father, Joe McDonald. I don’t think that the the literature on him now really got him right. And she said, give me a night to drink about it. Yeah, so the next morning she told me she was she’ll tell me everything she knows and she was the right person because first of all, she was named for the brother that he lost in SVO sound that he never got over his little brother. Her name’s [00:06:00] Jacqueline. And like her father, she’s absolutely brilliant. She’s charismatic. She is incredibly honest. If she’s not sure about something she’d say. So nothing in it was, what she told me was about herself. It was nothing was ego driven. She wanted to tell the truth of her father. And what I began to realize early on is that you know this, you have victims of guys like Joe McDonald who killed dozens of people professionally, but he was a murderer. There’s no doubt about it. And you have a lot of victims, including in his own family. Not that he intended to hurt his daughters and his son, but his, who he was and what he was, did a lot of damage to his own family and she was the perfect person to talk to because she was so honest. She’s also very funny if, you read about her in the book, she comes across as a real character, very charismatic. So her story runs parallel with his, she comes out about the middle of the book. I trace her life alongside with his, and she had a memoir that she did many years ago and she shared that with me. [00:07:00] She’s she really is a force of good, if you will, in the book. She’s the one to cheer for, she’s the one to root for. Joe McDonald is a formidable figure, but he’s a dark and shadow. We figure. I do bring him out as much as I can and he is fascinating, but. I felt like I needed someone to root for the reader, yeah. And also, it’s women who love true crime the most. Yeah. Gary Jenkins: That’s so Springs Toledo: had to give nod to them, they’re gonna buy it. Gary Jenkins: That is true. And a story like this will will attract men and women both, sometimes those just straight, kill ’em all and let God sort ’em out. Of true crime books are not really attractive to women. That’s really interesting that. You’re showing the human side of this guy instead of just the crime side, which there every one of these guys that are professional criminals in this life have a human side. They, that’s what one thing that fascinated me about ’em, even way back when I started, went into the intelligence unit is these guys all had families and they had kids going to St. Pius up here and they played football and the families all showed up [00:08:00] when their kids played football and they were in little league and all that kind of normal stuff. On one hand, but yet they came over into the CI city in here. They came from the suburbs over in the city and were these gangsters all night long, and then went back home to their suburban homes. So that family side. That’s really interesting. I’m glad you did that. Springs Toledo: That’s compartmentalization. And Joe was the best at it. But there was something unusual about this case and that is that. Joe told nothing to anybody. His Winter Hill partners barely knew about his personal life. They didn’t know much about him. Yeah, nobody knew much about him. ’cause he didn’t confide in anybody. He did it the way you’re supposed to do it. As an organized, if you’re gonna get into organized crime, you want to follow his lead. And he lived a tough life. It’s nothing to get into in terms of choosing that as an occupation. However, he did confide in his daughters. He trusted them and he told them an awful lot, which he didn’t realize was traumatizing them. But. Jackie McDonald is blessed with a very good memory, so she was able to fill in [00:09:00] a lot of blanks about some of which were cold case murders and other just, real eyebrow raising incidents that happened. I think this book would’ve been invaluable to the FBI. Right up to the early nineties interest because of the stuff that came out, several cold case murders. I think I solved them. And, they were attributable, well attributed. I attribute them to Joe, a few. I know he did. But, people didn’t know, and he was a, excuse my saying, but he had. He was a real talent for that. He knew how to get you. He knew how to find you. He knew how to get you. And he also, like I said, he didn’t have any fear, so there was nothing holding him back. And that’s a difference from Whitey Bulger. What people don’t realize is that Whitey Bulger was a very careful man. And that’s why a lot of murders attributed to Whitey Bulger. He didn’t do, it doesn’t even, it, it offends his personality. He was the kind of guy, if he’s gonna kill you, you’re gonna be in the basement tied to a chair, or you’re gonna be a woman. He’s not on Northern Avenue in Boston in broad daylight, killing Brian Halleran. It’s not true. That’s not Whitey [00:10:00] bulge, that’s not how he operated. Joe Mack was a different beast altogether, and yet he was never indicted for murder. He was questioned maybe for one of them. And the title is really a reason for that because you didn’t talk about Joe Mack. That’s actually, that’s that’s. I like the title a lot. It took me a long time to get to that title. First title was Hey Joe, ’cause of the song. And I was like, ah. Nobody said, Hey, Joe to him. Where you going with that gun in your hand, huh? That’s right. You’re good. Yeah. Jimmy Hendrix. And then another title was the Wars of Joe Mack. That was a little too masculine that works, but it was too masculine. Yeah, don’t talk about Joe Mack really captures, what he was and how he operated. Gary Jenkins: Springs set the geographic scene. I’ve always been a little bit confused about this in Boston. IU Boston is unlike Kansas City, for example, what I’m familiar with. It has these really distinct areas in neighborhoods. Set the scene, the Italians African Americans, the Irish what set that up for us? [00:11:00] Springs Toledo: Okay, this is the, fifties, sixties, seventies that, that’s where most of the book is occurring. Especially 60, 70, actually into the eighties. Boston first of all it’s basically back then was an Irish Catholic city. Yeah. There were other ethnicities, but it was overrun with the Irish and there were neighborhoods. So you had. You had neighborhood crews, you had crews that were operated out of East Boston. That’s Barboza, south Boston was several of them. Jamaica Plain, the North End obviously was where the mafia was. Sented La Ostra. Somerville, Charlestown. And a lot of, most of these guys who were got into criminality. Not only did they have families, they also had occupations. They were long showmen, they were roofers. They had jobs. I’m a policeman. And back then policemen, you didn’t make a lot of money. So you were encouraged to supplement your income. Oh yeah. Some of these guys were, they were detectives by day and they’re doing heists at night and that was not uncommon. And. Over time, certain organizations [00:12:00] became more organized and the Irish, remember, were barely organized. They were more like, it was more like the old West when things got hot. It was also a whiskey driven, a lot of the heinous acts and the murders that started to happen with that, the Irish gang war in the sixties, everybody was drunk. Some of these guys were really nice guys and then they got to the whiskey and forget it. They become monsters. Not everybody, but but. Boston was also very segregated. Not like the south. It was, there was natural neighborhoods, I was in Hy Park, that’s where I came up. If I went to Southy, there was a problem ’cause I didn’t know a lot of people there. If somebody from Southie went to the North End, it’s a problem. You are Irish, you shouldn’t be here. You didn’t cross boundaries. Mattapan was Jewish and then it became black. Same thing. So everybody congregating together is very tribal in that sense. Less so now, but there are still pockets, what’s upsetting to me is that you barely hear the accent, and you’re walking through Boston, you don’t hear the accent too much anymore. You have to get to Dorchester. That’s their accent’s. 10 times worse than mine, [00:13:00] and mine’s pretty bad but Joe Mack was Joe Mack was born in Medford, Massachusetts. He then, he was in Somerville by about 1950. His mother had moved there as as clan, if you will. Had moved there, his sisters and brothers. And so he was in Somerville in Winter Hill, and that’s where he started to operate and that’s where he started to put things together. Gary Jenkins: Interesting. You say Winter Hill. So let’s talk about the beginnings or this Winter Hill gang. I’ve heard of this. Many times. And Whitey Bulger of course popularized it. So tell me about the Winter Hill gang and Howie Carr. And there’s a famous picture that see on internet or on Facebook with our Underboss Tuffy Luna and this guy that was the head of the Winter Hill gang and a couple other gangsters from New York. So tell us about the beginning of this Winter Hill gang. Springs Toledo: We deserves a lot of credit. He’s the one that really brought the stuff out beginning in the eighties. He had the guts to mention Joe Mack in print. That’s high risk. I’m not sure how much he did it, but he was really [00:14:00] attuned to it early. And he had some great books, but winter Hill’s a neighborhood in Somerville. It’s not South Boston. You talk to guys who were associated with the Winter Hill Gang, what they called the Hill. Really? It was called The Hill by those who were a part of that organization. They get very resentful about Whitey Belgium and some of them will say that Whitey Belger wasn’t Winter Hill. Whitey Belgium was a partner, but he was South Boston. Okay. Once, and it’s a big story, but once he, it’s all in the book. But once he betrayed his partners in 79. With Fleming and all the partners just about were either they were all indicted except for about this big horse racing scheme that was going on, across several states. But Whitey and Fleming were unindicted co-conspirators, and that was hint number one that prompted Joe to go to Howie Winter, who was the face of the organization and say, I’m gonna kill them both. He was talked out of it because it’d be too much heat because Whitey had some very serious connections. You can’t take that away from him. And so he was a high [00:15:00] risk hit. Joe would’ve done it anyway and would’ve probably made him disappear or threw it at another organization to get the heat off the hill. But he was restrained, which was, I thought was a big mistake, but who can tell then? But after he cleared the field of his rivals, who. Where his partners in the Winter Hill gang he ostensibly should have taken over the rackets in Somerville, but that wasn’t really the case. He had salty that was his turf. He was a local guy. Salty was really where he was. He was no longer really welcome is my understanding from guys who I talked to were there, he was basically chased out of the Marshall Motor’s garage in Somerville in Winter Hill, and that’s when he went to the Lancaster garage in, on North End, which is closer to home, closer to his. Space of operations. Yeah. But Whitey was very treacherous and he was Machiavellian in his methods. Joe at the time was already on the lamb because I don’t think Whitey would’ve survived that if Joe was close and saw what he was doing. So it’s a lot of what could have been, if Joe wasn’t in the wind because of several other crimes and murders he was [00:16:00] doing at the time, he was actually on the FBI’s 10 most wanted on 76, long before Whitey was on it. Gary Jenkins: Interesting. So then the relationship between Howie Carr and Joe Mack how was that, how did that shake down? Springs Toledo: Howie Winter, you mean, Gary Jenkins: or Howie Winter, I’m sorry. Springs Toledo: Yeah. Howie Winter was mentored by Joe Mack. See, Joe Mack was really, he was like the general, he was like the general on the field. The Irish don’t operate in a hierarchy. That’s an Italian thing. There’s no ring kissing in an Irish pub. It’s just a different culture. What they were partners. You had one guy up front. He was the face of it. That’s Howie. Howie was the face of it before Howie’s buddy McClain. In the early, in the early sixties. Joe though, the guy in the shadows, he used to say, I’m at the back of the bus. He’s at the back of the bus, but he’s the one with the map. He’s the go-to guy. The guy up front is the guy that gets hit. That’s the guy that gets indicted. So Joe was astute enough to, just stay in the [00:17:00] background, let the kids have it. But they were. Very close, very close. During the war they were, very tight-knit organization. These were friends. They were very affectionate with each other. They took care of one another. This is before Whitey came in. He was, he poisoned the well. But Joe and Howie and Buddy McClean and they, anos when they come in, they were very close. It was a kind of a band of brothers in a way. But Joe still made. Maintain that, everybody was at arms length with him. He was careful about everybody. There was a rift between Howie and Joe later in their respective lives in the in the eighties, into the nineties. I’m told that it was healed. I don’t think it was, and that’s unfortunate. But they were close to most of their lives, they literally went to war together on, on the street, you’re gonna form strong bonds when you know you’re looking at this guy and you gotta rely on him to watch your back. And Gary Jenkins: yeah, Springs Toledo: that’s what was happening. Gary Jenkins: So Irish, they didn’t kick up, if you will, to somebody above them. Everybody was a kind of a independent operator. If you got a piece of action and you had something going that you didn’t have to kick up to [00:18:00] somebody to be part of the Winter Hill gang, if you will. Springs Toledo: That was where the, there were a lot of crews around. They were called independents. And there’s a lot of them around in Boston in the sixties. But if you got too big and you started making real money, Patri was a power in Boston. Gary Jenkins: Yeah. Springs Toledo: Raymond Patri, he was a power in Boston. There’s no doubt about that. But there’s two schools of thought. Some believe that Winter Hill had to always kick up to them, kick to Providence. Others say? No, not really. Because first of all, he loved Buddy McClean. Buddy McClain was he was a very charismatic guy, very tough guy, and he was a man of his word, so they really liked him. So there’s the other school of thought is that, they liked Buddy, they gave him a pass on that. But every now and then they’d have to do him favors, maybe do some hits, things like that. Yeah. Yeah. But again, but in, in Boston it’s, like I said, it’s mostly Irish, it’s not set up like New York where the Italians are a real power that’s right there. He, one guy, matter of fact a name of one of the chapters in the book where I get into the Gangland war. Is Boston was [00:19:00] overrun with sick bastards, quote unquote, because there was just so many dangerous guys. There wasn’t a few here and there, like the gallows or it, there was hundreds of guys and there was damn near psychopathic they were called and underworld polls. There was savages, they go right to your house. And it was too many. This, one guy actually several believed that if there was a problem between Rhode Island. The Boston Underworld, meaning Boston Writ Lodge, including Somerville, Medford, Malden, all that. That. The Italians would’ve come to the table. ’cause the Irish underworld, the Boston Underworld here would’ve made it very much not worth it. Not worth the blood and the treasure. So it’s, yes, with very interesting culture here. What you couldn’t control the Boston underworld. They would just, Boston itself has a reputation. You don’t wanna invade this place. Gary Jenkins: Yeah, just ask the English, huh? Springs Toledo: Exactly. Yeah. We go way back with that stuff. Yeah. Gary Jenkins: Yeah it’s, I was at I went into the north end and looked around at Prince Street and all the place where [00:20:00] Jerry Angelo and all that was going on, and that is such a small. Discreet little area in that then, so you, they just operated and he was not any kind of a real power. It didn’t seem to be like, compared to patriarchal. He was under patriarchal of course. And he didn’t really, it’s like the Irish all had their own thing all around him. All, and he didn’t really have didn’t, I didn’t find any, anything I’ve ever seen where there was much to do between those two. Was there, did he have anything about that? Springs Toledo: He had he had two guys joe Russo, he was a killer. He was a very serious individual and a guy who has two names. Some call him Byi, some call him Zino. Larry was his name. Very serious guy. But that’s two guys. The other dangerous guys in the north end. They were getting up there in age. Meanwhile, like you just alluded to, this sur this surrounded, by these, these crazy guys. Yeah, but they, they did. There was some interplay, there was some contracts would be given to the Hill, for instance. That happened several times. The Hill would borrow [00:21:00] money from Angelou and Jou had a lot of money. They’d borrow money from him. Whitey Belger borrowed money from him with Fleming and actually didn’t pay it back. And then Joe Mack got out of the can. This is 80 late 86, 87, and him and Howie went to Fleming and Whitey and said, listen, you’re paying them back. Matter of fact, you’re paying them back a million because you made us look bad. We pay our debts, you pay him, you pay in back 1 million. And they did. They Whitey Bulger. Yeah. Whitey Bulger did not step two, Joe McDonald. In other words he wasn’t the power that Johnny Depp would have us believe. Gary Jenkins: Interesting. So let’s go back to the family just a little bit. His daughter Jack Le, so when he went to prison, did she talk about that? I have a friend who went to prison for several years and he talks, tells me a lot about his kids coming to visit him in prison. Did he talk about that? Did she talk about that? How that affected her? Springs Toledo: She she talks about her whole life and how he was a shadow in her life. She loved him, [00:22:00] but he brought a lot of chains behind him and a lot of ghosts and a lot of fear of FBI raids and things like that. Even when he was on the run from the FBI was on the, top 10 most wanted, it’s only six o’clock news all over the place in every post office. He would just show up and see her. He thought he was being a dutiful father. He’s showing up. He’s got these black sideburns, glued onto his face and she could see the ink dripping. He got his rug on his head he startled her a lot. So she. He was a cause of great anxiety. And then she became a mother, and then things started to change. She had to protect her boys. And while, he looked like he could be a good grandfather, he was an extremely dangerous man. And when he went away to prison, she tried to be a good daughter. She would send him clippings. Matter of fact, she sent him a clipping of I think it was a national examiner because her father was in it. It was about the top 10. FBI fugitives. And she pointed out she was into astronomy and she astrology and she pointed [00:23:00] out that Joe Mack and another guy named Leo Corey had the same birthday, July 14th. So she thought he’d get a kick outta that. He gets outta prison a few years later, and he shows up at her house with Leo Corey. Who’s still on the top 10 most wanted. And she, he opens the door. He said, do you remember this guy? And she turned, that, that was a scary, that was a very scary moment for her. Yeah. He’s bringing very, this is a convicted murderer. It’s a multiple murderer. She’s got bringing, he’s bringing it to her house like he’s an old friend. So that kind of stuff happened a lot. It almost show off like that. Look what I can do. Yeah. So she had, I, she did love him and she has since forgiven him. And I think this book is part of her process to forgive, what he put her through and what he put his other children through. Not intentionally, he tried to be a good father, but how can you. In that position. Gary Jenkins: Yeah. Yeah. When you bring that violence into the home, and you can’t help but bring that aura of [00:24:00] violence with you. When you live that life and when you come back into the home, there’s still that edge of violence that, that unspoken communication, you jump every time, somebody pulls up out in front and you’re running to the window to see who it is and there’s just always, always on edge. I, that would be it. Springs Toledo: Here’s a good story. So he’s on the run. This is in the I think it’s the late sixties. Joe’s on the run. She’s at home and Joe set his wife and kids up in Malden and a house on the hill. And originally he was gonna live there too. And it’s a, it is a great place. He’s up, he’s on a corner. He’s on a hill. You can see Boston from it. So it’s got a great vantage point for kind of a, a paranoid damaged war veteran. Yeah. So a call comes into the house. Voice says, you know who this is. She’s about 11, 12 years old. Voice says, you know who this is? Yes. Meet me at the bottom of the hill. So she gets her sister Patty and they meet their dad at the bottom of the hill. He takes them bowling and saga. He’s got the disguise on. Yeah. He’s got so many IDs, fake IDs, and he’s they [00:25:00] go to they, they go bowl and. You gotta wait for Lane. So he’s sitting there like this, he got his arms out. He’s feeling good about himself. He’s a good dad. He got his two teenage girls here and one of ’em, one of ’em, almost a teenager. And suddenly over the intercom, Thomas Campbell, your lane is ready. And he’s just sitting there. Thomas Campbell, he’s just sitting there. Finally his daughter says, pat says, dad, that’s you. Oh. And off he goes. So he wasn’t even sure who he was half the time. Yeah. So he’s my heart went out to him in that sense because here’s a man who made some very dark life choices and he’s trying to be a conventional father. Meanwhile, he’s gotta keep his eye on the clock, on the door, on the phone and everything else, all day long. Not to mention the fact that, there’s, it was dangerous lifestyle. But, his daughters, I, his daughters, they idolize him and they loved him. They didn’t fear him, he never raised his hand to them, never raised his hand to them, but they feared what he brought with ’em. Yeah. And that’s a theme book. Gary Jenkins: Yeah. Interesting. Yeah, that’s a, that’s that is so interesting. Think about this [00:26:00] era or of violent violence. I think somewhere in the book I noticed I was going through it where he may have been possibly one of the suspects on the Joe Barbosa head out in San Francisco when they finally got him and in. Springs Toledo: That’s fascinating because actually I had to take out ’cause of the publisher, I take about 15,000 words, but I really get into that. But that had to go. But what happened was. He had to go out there and kill a federal witness. And this guy was a civilian. This guy looked like a grandfather. And but he was gonna be a fence for some rear stamps that Joe had taken a million dollars worth of rear stamps. And this guy was gonna be the fence. He was a rear stamp collector out in Sierra Madre. Long story short, in January of 1976, Joe Mack drives out there, shoots him in the head five times in front of his wife, and then in February, that’s when Bob Bozer is killed February, 1976. This is January, 1976. Now, what I heard from two sources, and they’re pretty good, is that Joe did not go from Sierra Madre, [00:27:00] California back to Somerville. What he did was he went to Laurel Canyon and that’s where Alex Rocco was staying. Alex Rocco du played Mo Green in The Godfather. Oh, Gary Jenkins: yeah. Yeah. Springs Toledo: Yeah, he was a Winter Hill guy and Joe stayed with him on the lamb for so many weeks. I don’t know if it’s true. I couldn’t chase that down. No way you’re gonna find that out. But it was an intriguing little tidbit. So then in in February Bob Bozer is killed. Now when that news hit a bar in Boston called Clocks was a mob hangout. The bartender who knew all these guys. He got off the phone and he yelled out to the bar that Bleepity bleep stool pigeon. Animal Barbosa is dead and gone. God bless Joe Mack. That’s what he said. He just assumed Joe Mack did it. So what I’m trying to chase that down and what happens is so I’m talking to guys, who’re talking to guys. What I [00:28:00] found out is that one guy said no, this that, that wasn’t Joe that was kept in-house among the Italians because Bob Bza really took apart the Italians influences Yeah. In Boston. Yeah. He took them apart with lies. And however, there were three people in that van. I got these I got freedom of information documents and. What I was told by a made guy actually, is that it was Russo and Byi Zino. They’re the ones that took out Bob Bozo with a shotgun from a van. The van two seats were taken out of the van. The windows were painted black. This. Side windows were painted black and peeps were drilled into the side door and the back, so they worked hard to get ’em, but there was a third man in the van, so that’s a little intriguing. Could it have been Joe? I don’t know. Probably not. I’d have to say probably not, but nice story. And then from there, and then literally just a few weeks after that, Joe was in disguise. Remember now he’s already on the news as a as a top 10 fugitive. The FBI’s looking [00:29:00] for, and where is he? He’s in Walpole. How did I find out? I got everybody’s prison records. I could, and Brian Halleran, who turns up later in the book and then turns up dead later in the book. He’s in prison. Joe visits him. How do I know? It’s Joe’s Alias? John A. Kelly, that was his alias at the time. So he’s wanted by the FBI, he’s on the news and literally a week or two later. He’s visiting somebody in Walpole State Prison. From there, I trace him to Montreal. What’s he doing in Montreal? He’s sticking, he’s holding up a an ahed car robbery. With the Montreal Express, they had a great program, the Montreal Express. And Somerville, what they would do is they would just swap guys to do these big highs, get these ika, get these banks, and then just return. So it was awfully hard to catch ’em ’cause they’re just doing like a swap off. Yeah. Joe Mack. Was up there. And what he was doing was, and he, it was a white van, which raises an eyebrow, another white van. And the Amed car, the guy wouldn’t open the door. So they open up the [00:30:00] door of the back doors of the white van. And there is a World War II Browning anti-aircraft gun. And guess who’s behind it? Joe Mack. So this is a very busy man, and he should be, he’s retirement age but did he kill Boba? Probably not, but there was a third guy there. I would not be surprised. I know the Italians used him. Gary Jenkins: You brought something to Montreal Express Now what’s that? I, that I’m not from, I’ve not heard that term before. Springs Toledo: I wasn’t either, but that a lot of guys told me they Gary Jenkins: back heard your story there. Springs Toledo: Yeah, there is. Yeah. They were they were up, they were they were bank robbers. They went for the armor trucks. That was their forte. Very well organized. Very skilled. They were specialized and they would swap off with, winter Hills, sometimes with Southie and South Boston, I should say. South Boston and Somerville would, they were very close, they were very much aligned. They would swap off. I think one of ’em was the brother of a Bruins hockey player. Yeah. Gary Jenkins: Interesting. These guys, they got their connections. I found out more and more after I since I started doing this podcast, how many connections people [00:31:00] had between cities and even within a city connections to regular look like Square John, businessmen and just connections all over the place. It’s Springs Toledo: all over the place. Matter of fact, Joe was Joe was in contact with the guys who escaped from Alcatraz. I couldn’t prove it, but I heard that, he was sending them money and, and supporting them. I pro I didn’t find nearly 50% of what Joe was up to, but that’s more than anybody else. I think before this book, we knew about 2% of what he was up to. Yeah. Gary Jenkins: It was Springs Toledo: pretty guy. Sure. Yeah. He was a footnote in the most of the books. Just a footnote, if that. So Gary Jenkins: that’s the smart one, the one that keeps his head down and keeps out of the papers and everything. Did that, did you talk to John Ano? Springs Toledo: Yes. Yeah. Gary Jenkins: Interesting. Springs Toledo: I did. He was he loved, first thing he said was how much he loved him. All these guys, very serious guys. They’re very powerful guys in the underworld. And when I brought his name up the ones who were close to him, they would say I love that. I love that man. Loved him. They loved and [00:32:00] revered him. Other guys who were not as close to him, but who were very, operatives in the bus world. I bring his name up now, he’s been gone since 1997. And they’d look around like this. And they say, oh gee. So you know, his name is still enough to and matter of fact, I was told early on when I was poking around that I’m poking around in dangerous places and Joe still has friends and you don’t wanna cross these guys, so even now his his shadow still looms, if you will, but I think it approve of what I did because, what I heard is that he’s very honest. He would not want any biographer to pull a pull punches about who and what he was. I didn’t, yeah. But some of his friends warned me. They were, you gotta be careful with this, but I call it bachelor’s privilege. I’m not married, I have no kids. If I end up in a ditch, who cares? So I can take risks. Gary Jenkins: Yeah. That’s some truth. It’s just that last few minutes before you’d done the dish, you go, oh shit, I wish I was anywhere but here. I, Springs Toledo: I would ask to talk to a priest. Let me get a confession. That what you gotta do, Gary Jenkins: you Springs Toledo: know, Gary Jenkins: you’d be like I think it was Tony Citro. Supposedly the story was he [00:33:00] wanted to know if he could say a quick prayer before they did him in, but Springs Toledo: I hope they let him, Gary Jenkins: I don’t know. Steve Fleming, we met, you’d mentioned about Steve Fleming, the Rifleman, who was whitey’s buddy and you, I think you mentioned you had a story about Steve Fleming. Springs Toledo: Steve Fleming was it’s interesting he doesn’t appear too much in the book. One of the things I had to do with this, I had to do my best to keep the names down. One of the a fatal flaw in a whole lot of Boston and Underworld books than any underworld books is there was just 8,000 names. Too many names. There’s too many names. So I, so I mentioned him a few times ’cause you have to, but I’m not focused on Fleming, but I can tell you that Joe was very suspicious of Fleming as early as he was very suspicious of Whitey. He respected him. Fleming was a killer. More of an ambush killer than than a Savage or a guy who took a lot of risks. He was a lot like Whitey, like that. But no, Joe didn’t trust him because. He had a long bid and he got out early, and that’s always a cause for concern among those guys. Why are [00:34:00] you out early? They got a story and the stories backed up by the government. They were already in cahoots. Gary Jenkins: Yeah. Springs Toledo: But with the names, there was one guy, this is an example. He was actually an MDC cop who was part of the Winter Hill gang in the early sixties, and his name was Russ Nicholson. I don’t wanna keep saying Russ Nicholson, the cop. So I shortened it to Russ the cop. Yeah. And then as things went on and the, police department realized that this guy’s involved in the rackets, they forced him to resign. So then I started calling them Rust, the ex cop. Then Rusty ex-cop gets clipped probably by Georgie McLaughlin. He’s dead, so now he’s Rust the dead ex-cop. So I’m trying to be polite to the reader and keep the names down. Gary Jenkins: Interesting. That’s a good idea that I know about that, that people say I love what you did, but there’s too many names. I got confused who was who. So it’s Springs Toledo: yeah, Gary Jenkins: it’s always a problem with these deals. All right, Springs, Toledo. [00:35:00] Let’s see. All of a sudden I like there it is. There you go guys. And guys, I will have your his link to for all his books and the show notes and of course links to my books too, but links to all of these guy, these books. You had some even about John Brown. You wanna go back into little Civil War history? Why check those out too. Guys, thanks so much for coming on the show. Springs Toledo: My pleasure.

Kviečiame pasiklausyti pokalbio su dainininke Angelou apie muziką, sceną, laukiančius muzikinius susitikimus bei naują patirtį - duetu su Silvester Belt įrašytą dainą „Apsirengus vasara“.

In this special episode of Unstoppable Mindset, I had the privilege of sitting down with the remarkable Ivan Cury—a man whose career has taken him from the golden days of radio to groundbreaking television and, ultimately, the classroom.   Ivan began acting at just four and a half years old, with a chance encounter at a movie theater igniting a lifelong passion for storytelling. By age eleven, he had already starred in a radio adaptation of Jack and the Beanstalk and went on to perform in classic programs like Let's Pretend and FBI in Peace and War. His talent for voices and dialects made him a favorite on the air.   Television brought new opportunities. Ivan started out as a makeup artist before climbing the ranks to director, working on culturally significant programs like Soul and Woman, and directing Men's Wearhouse commercials for nearly three decades. Ivan also made his mark in academia, teaching at Hunter College, Cal State LA, and UCLA. He's written textbooks and is now working on a book of short stories and reflections from his extraordinary life.   Our conversation touched on the importance of detail, adaptability, and collaboration—even with those we might not agree with. Ivan also shared his view that while hard work is crucial, luck plays a bigger role than most of us admit.   This episode is packed with insights, humor, and wisdom from a man who has lived a rich and varied life in media and education. Ivan's stories—whether about James Dean or old-time radio—are unforgettable.     About the Guest:   Ivan Cury began acting on Let's Pretend at the age of 11. Soon he was appearing on Cavalcade of America, Theatre Guild on the Air,  The Jack Benny Program, and many others.  Best known as Portia's son on Portia Faces Life and Bobby on Bobby Benson and The B-Bar-B Riders.    BFA: Carnegie Tech, MFA:Boston University.   Producer-director at NET & CBS.  Camera Three's 25th Anniversary of the Julliard String Quartet, The Harkness Ballet, Actor's Choice and Soul! as well as_, _The Doctors and The Young and the Restless. Numerous television commercials, notably for The Men's Wearhouse.   Taught at Hunter, Adelphi, and UCLA.  Tenured at Cal State University, Los Angeles.  Author of two books on Television Production, one of which is in its 5th edition.    Ways to connect with Ivan:       About the Host:   Michael Hingson is a New York Times best-selling author, international lecturer, and Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe. Michael, blind since birth, survived the 9/11 attacks with the help of his guide dog Roselle. This story is the subject of his best-selling book, Thunder Dog.   Michael gives over 100 presentations around the world each year speaking to influential groups such as Exxon Mobile, AT&T, Federal Express, Scripps College, Rutgers University, Children's Hospital, and the American Red Cross just to name a few. He is Ambassador for the National Braille Literacy Campaign for the National Federation of the Blind and also serves as Ambassador for the American Humane Association's 2012 Hero Dog Awards.   https://michaelhingson.com https://www.facebook.com/michael.hingson.author.speaker/ https://twitter.com/mhingson https://www.youtube.com/user/mhingson https://www.linkedin.com/in/michaelhingson/   accessiBe Links https://accessibe.com/ https://www.youtube.com/c/accessiBe https://www.linkedin.com/company/accessibe/mycompany/ https://www.facebook.com/accessibe/       Thanks for listening!   Thanks so much for listening to our podcast! If you enjoyed this episode and think that others could benefit from listening, please share it using the social media buttons on this page. Do you have some feedback or questions about this episode? Leave a comment in the section below!   Subscribe to the podcast   If you would like to get automatic updates of new podcast episodes, you can subscribe to the podcast on Apple Podcasts or Stitcher. You can subscribe in your favorite podcast app. You can also support our podcast through our tip jar https://tips.pinecast.com/jar/unstoppable-mindset .   Leave us an Apple Podcasts review   Ratings and reviews from our listeners are extremely valuable to us and greatly appreciated. They help our podcast rank higher on Apple Podcasts, which exposes our show to more awesome listeners like you. If you have a minute, please leave an honest review on Apple Podcasts.       Transcription Notes:   Michael Hingson ** 00:16 Access Cast and accessiBe Initiative presents Unstoppable Mindset. The podcast where inclusion, diversity and the unexpected meet. Hi, I'm Michael Hingson, Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe and the author of the number one New York Times bestselling book, Thunder dog, the story of a blind man, his guide dog and the triumph of trust. Thanks for joining me on my podcast as we explore our own blinding fears of inclusion unacceptance and our resistance to change. We will discover the idea that no matter the situation, or the people we encounter, our own fears, and prejudices often are our strongest barriers to moving forward. The unstoppable mindset podcast is sponsored by accessiBe, that's a c c e s s i capital B e. Visit www.accessibe.com to learn how you can make your website accessible for persons with disabilities. And to help make the internet fully inclusive by the year 2025. Glad you dropped by we're happy to meet you and to have you here with us.   Michael Hingson ** 01:20 Well, hi everyone, and welcome to another episode of unstoppable mindset where inclusion, diversity and the unexpected meet. And the fun thing is, most everything really deals with the unexpected. That is anything that doesn't have anything to do with diversity or inclusion. And our guest today, Ivan Cury, is certainly a person who's got lots of unexpected things, I am sure, and not a lot necessarily, dealing with the whole issue of disabilities, inclusion and diversity, necessarily, but we'll see. I want to tell you a little bit about Ivan, not a lot, because I want him to tell but as many of you know who listen to unstoppable mindset on a regular basis. I collect and have had as a hobby for many years old radio shows. And did a radio program for seven years, almost at UC Irvine when I was there on kuci, where every Sunday night we played old radio shows. And as it turns out, Ivan was in a number of those shows, such as, let's pretend, which is mostly a children's show. But I got to tell you, some of us adults listened and listened to it as well, as well as other programs. And we'll get into talking about some of those things. Ivan has a really great career. He's done a variety of different things, in acting. He's been in television commercials and and he is taught. He's done a lot of things that I think will be fun to talk about. So we'll get right to it. Ivan, I want to thank you for being here and welcome you to unstoppable mindset. Thanks. Thanks. Good to be here. Well, tell us a little bit about kind of the early Ivan growing up, if you will. Let's start with that. It's always good to start at the beginning, as it were,   Ivan Cury ** 03:04 well, it's sorry, it's a great, yes, it's a good place to start. About the time I was four and a half, that's a good time to start. I walked past the RKO 81st, street theater in New York, which is where we lived, and there was a princess in a in a castle kept in the front of this wonderful building that photographs all over the place. Later on, I was to realize that that Princess was really the cashier, but at the time, it was a princess in a small castle, and I loved the building and everything was in it. And thought at that time, that's what I'm going to do when I grow up. And the only thing that's kind of sad is it's Here I am, and I'm still liking that same thing all these years later, that's that's what I liked. And I do one thing or another, I wound up entertaining whenever there was a chance, which really meant just either singing a song or shaking myself around and pretending it was a dance or thinking it was a dance. And finally, wound up meeting someone who suggested I do a general audition at CBS long ago, when you could do those kinds of things I did and they I started reading when I was very young, because I really, because I want to read comics, you know, no big thing about that. And so when I could finally read comics, I wound up being able to read and doing it well. And did a general audition of CBS. They liked me. I had a different kind of voice from the other kids that were around at the time. And and so I began working and the most in my career, this was once, once you once they found a kid who had a different voice than the others, then you could always be the kid brother or the other brother. But it was clear that I wasn't a kid with a voice. I was the kid with the Butch boy. So who? Was who, and so I began to work. And I worked a lot in radio, and did lots and lots of shows, hundreds, 1000s,   Michael Hingson ** 05:07 you mentioned the comics. I remember when we moved to California, I was five, and I was tuning across the dial one Sunday morning and found KFI, which is, of course, a state a longtime station out here was a clear channel station. It was one of the few that was the only channel or only station on that frequency, and on Sunday morning, I was tuning across and I heard what sounded like somebody reading comics. But they weren't just reading the comics. They were dramatized. And it turns out it was a guy named David Starling who did other shows and when. So I got his name. But on that show, he was the funny paper man, and they read the LA Times comics, and every week they acted them out. So I was a devoted fan for many years, because I got to hear all of the comics from the times. And we actually subscribed to a different newspaper, so I got two sets of comics my brother or father read me the others. But it was fun reading and listening to the comics. And as I said, they dramatize them all, which was really cool.   Ivan Cury ** 06:14 Yeah, no doubt I was one day when I was in the studio, I was doing FBI and peace and war. I used to do that all the time, several it was a sponsored show. So it meant, I think you got $36 as opposed to $24 which was okay in those days. And my line was, gee, Dad, where's the lava soap. And I said that every week, gee, Dad, where's the lava soap. And I remember walking in the studio once and hearing the guy saying, Ah, this television ain't never gonna work. You can't use your imagination. And, yeah,   Michael Hingson ** 06:52 well, except you really don't use your imagination near especially now I find that everything is way too spelled out, so you don't get to use your imagination.   Ivan Cury ** 07:03 Radio required you to use your radio required you to use it. Yeah, and, and if you had a crayon book at the time, well, and you were 12 or No, no, much younger than that, then it was and that was what you did, and it was fun.   Michael Hingson ** 07:17 So what was the first radio program that you were   Ivan Cury ** 07:20 it was very peculiar, is it New Year's Eve, 19 four? No, I don't know. I'm not sure. Now, it was 47 or 48 I think it was 48 Yeah, I was 11, and it was New Year's Eve, and it was with Hank Severn, Ted Cott, and I did a Jack and the Beanstalk. It was recording for caravan records. It became the number one kids record. You know, I didn't, there was no he didn't get residuals or anything like that. And the next day I did, let's pretend. And then I didn't work for three months. And I think I cried myself to sleep every night after that, because I absolutely loved it. And, you know, there was nothing my parents could do about this, but I wanted, I wanted in. And about three months later, I finally got to do another show. Peculiarly. The next show I did was lead opposite Helen Hayes in a play called no room for Peter Pan. And I just looked it up. It was May. I looked it up and I lost it already. I think, I think I may know what it is. Stay tuned. No, now, nope, nope, nope, ah, so that's it was not. This was May 1949, wow. What was it? Well, yeah, and it was, it was a the director was a man named Lester O'Keefe, and I loved Barry Fitzgerald, and I find even at a very early age, I could do an Irish accent. And I've been in Ireland since then. I do did this, just sometimes with the people knowing that I was doing it and I was it was fine. Sometimes they didn't, and I could get it is, it is pretty Irish, I think, at any rate, he asked me father, who was born in Russia, if we spoke Gaelic at home, we didn't. And so I did the show, and it was fine. Then I did a lot of shows after that, because here was this 11 year old kid who could do all this kind of   Michael Hingson ** 09:24 stuff. So what was no room for Peter Pan about,   Ivan Cury ** 09:27 oh, it was about a midget, a midget who is a young man, a young boy who never grows up, and there's a mind. He becomes a circus performer, and he becomes a great star, and he comes back to his town, to his mother, and there's a mine disaster, and the only one who can save them is this little person, and the kid doesn't want to do it, and it's and there's a moment where Helen Hayes, who played the lead, explained about how important it is the to give up your image and be and be. Man, be a real man, and do the thing, right thing to do. And so that was the   Michael Hingson ** 10:04 story. What show was it on? What series?   Ivan Cury ** 10:07 Electric Theater, Electric Theater, Electric Theater with Ellen Hayes, okay,   Michael Hingson ** 10:10 I don't think I've heard that, but I'm going to find it.   Ivan Cury ** 10:14 Well, yes, there's that one. And almost very soon afterwards, I did another important part with Walter Hughes, Walter Hamden. And that was on cavalcade of America, Ah, okay. And that was called Footlights on the frontier. And it was about, Tom about Joseph Jefferson, and the theater of the time, where the young kid me meets Abraham Lincoln, Walter Houston, and he saves the company. Well, those are the first, first shows. Was downhill from there. Oh, I don't   Michael Hingson ** 10:50 know, but, but you you enjoyed it, and, of course, I loved it, yes, why?   Ivan Cury ** 11:00 I was very friendly with Richard lamparsky. I don't even remember him, but he wrote whatever became of series of books. Whatever became of him was did a lot, and we were chatting, and he said that one of the things he noticed is that people in theater, people in motion pictures, they all had a lot of nightmare stories to tell about people they'd work with. And radio actors did not have so much of that. And I believe that you came in, you got your script, you work with people you like, mostly, if you didn't, you'd see you'd lose, you know, you wouldn't see them again for another Yeah, you only had to deal with them for three or four hours, and that was in the studio. And after that, goodbye.   Michael Hingson ** 11:39 Yeah, what was your favorite show that you ever did?   Ivan Cury ** 11:42 And it seems to me, it's kind of almost impossible. Yeah, I don't know,   Michael Hingson ** 11:51 a lot of fun ones.   Ivan Cury ** 11:54 I'll tell you the thing about that that I found and I wrote about it, there are only five, four reasons really, for having a job. One of them is money, one of them is prestige. One of them is learning something, and the other is having fun. And if they don't have at least two, you ought to get out of it. And I just had a lot of fun. I really like doing it. I think that's one of the things that's that keeps you going now, so many of these old time radio conventions, which are part of my life now, at least Tom sometimes has to do with with working with some of the actors. It's like tennis. It's like a good tennis game. You you send out a line, and you don't know how it's going to come back and what they're going to do with it. And that's kind of fun.   Michael Hingson ** 12:43 Well, so while you were doing radio, and I understand you weren't necessarily doing it every day, but almost, well, almost. But you were also going to school. How did all that work out   Ivan Cury ** 12:53 there is, I went to Professional Children's School. I went to a lot of schools. I went to law schools only because mostly I would, I would fail geometry or algebra, and I'd have to take summer session, and I go to summer session and I'd get a film, and so I'd leave that that session of summer session and do the film and come back and then go to another one. So in all, I wound up to being in about seven or eight high schools. But the last two years was at Professional Children's School. Professional Children's School has been set up. It's one of a number of schools that are set up for professional children, particularly on the East Coast. Here, they usually bring somebody on the set. Their folks brought on set for it. Their professional school started really by Milton Berle, kids that go on the road, and they were doing terribly. Now in order to work as a child Lacher in New York and probably out here, you have to get permission from the mayor's office and permission from the American Society of Prevention of Cruelty to Children. And you needed permits to do it, and those both organizations required the schools to show to give good grades you were doing in school, so you had to keep up your grades, or they wouldn't give you a permit, and then you couldn't work. PCs did that by having correspondence. So if a kid was on the road doing a show out of town in Philadelphia or wherever, they were responsible for whatever that week's work was, and we were all we knew ahead of time what the work was going to be, what projects had to be sent into the school and they would be graded when I went, I went to Carnegie, and my first year of English, I went only, I think, three days a week, instead of five, because Tuesdays and Thursdays Were remedial. We wrote We were responsible for a term paper. Actually, every week, you we learned how to write. And it was, they were really very serious about it. They were good schools   Michael Hingson ** 14:52 well, and you, you clearly enjoyed it. And I know you also got very involved and interested in poetry as you went along. Too do. Yes, I did well, yeah, yeah. And who's your favorite poet?   Ivan Cury ** 15:07 Ah, my favorite poets. If that is hard to say, who my favorite is, but certainly they are more than one is Langston, Hughes, Mary, Oliver, wh Jordan, my favorite, one of my favorite poems is by Langston Hughes. I'll do it for you now. It's real easy. Burton is hard, and dying is mean. So get yourself some love, and in between, there you go. Yes, I love that. And Mary Oliver, Mary Oliver's memory, if I hope I do, I go down to the shore, and depending upon the hour, the waves are coming in and going out. And I said, Oh, I am so miserable. Watch. What should I do? And the sea, in its lovely voice, says, Excuse me, I have work to do.   Michael Hingson ** 15:56 Ooh. That puts it in perspective, doesn't   Ivan Cury ** 16:00 it? Yes, it certainly does.   Michael Hingson ** 16:03 So So you, you went to school and obviously had good enough grades that you were able to continue to to act and be in radio, yes, which was cool. And then television, because it was a television Lacher, yeah, yeah. It's beginning of television as well. So I know one of the shows that you were on was the Jack Benny show. What did you do for Jack? Oh, well,   Ivan Cury ** 16:28 I'm really stuffy. Singer is the guy who really did a lot of Jack Benny things. But what happened is that when Jack would come to New York, if there was a kid they needed, that was me, and so I did the Benny show, I don't know, two or three times when he was in New York. I, I did the Jack Benny show two or three times. But I was not so you were, you were nice, man. It came in. We did the show. I went   Michael Hingson ** 16:51 home. You were a part time Beaver, huh?   Ivan Cury ** 16:54 I don't know. I really don't know, but I was beaver or what? I don't remember anything other than I had been listening to the Jack Benny show as a kid. I knew he was a star and that he was a nice man, and when he came into the studio, he was just a nice man who who read Jack Benny's lines, and who was Jack Benny, and he said his lines, and I said my lines, and we had a nice time together. And there wasn't any, there wasn't any real interplay between us, other than what would be normal between any two human beings and and that was that. So I did the show, but I can't talk very much about Jack Benny.   Michael Hingson ** 17:32 Did you? Did you primarily read your scripts, or did you memorize them at all?   Ivan Cury ** 17:37 Oh, no, no, radio. That was the thing about radio. Radio that was sort of the joy you read. It was all about reading. It's all about reading, yeah. And one of the things about that, that that was just that I feel lucky about, is that I can pretty well look at a script and read it. Usually read it pretty well with before the first time I've ever seen it, and that's cold reading, and I was pretty good at that, and still am.   Michael Hingson ** 18:06 Did you find that as you were doing scripts and so on, though, and reading them, that that changed much when you went in into television and started doing television?   Ivan Cury ** 18:22 I don't know what you mean by change.   Michael Hingson ** 18:24 Did you you still read scripts and   Ivan Cury ** 18:26 yeah, no, no, the way. I mean the way intelligent show usually goes as an actor. Well, when I directed television, I used to direct a lot of soap operas, not a lot, but I directed soap operas, but there'd be a week's rehearsal for a show, danger, I'm syndicated, or anything, and so there'd be a week's rehearsal. The first thing you do is, we have a sit down read, so you don't read the script, and then you holding the script in your hand walk through the scenes. Sometimes the director would have, would have blocking that they knew you were going to they were going to do, and they say, here's what you do. You walk in the door, etc. Sometimes they say, Well, go ahead, just show me what you'd like, what you what it feels like. And from that blocking is derived. And then you go home and you try to memorize the lines, and you feel perfectly comfortable that as you go, when you leave and you come back the next day and discover you got the first line down. But from there on, it's dreadful. But after a while, you get into the thing and you know your lines. You do it. Soap opera. Do that.   Michael Hingson ** 19:38 The interesting thing about doing radio, was everything, pretty much, was live. Was that something that caused a lot of pressure for you?   Ivan Cury ** 19:51 In some ways, yes, and in some ways it's lovely. The pressure is, yes, you want to get it right, but if you got to get it but if you get it wrong, give it up, because it's all over. Uh, and that's something that's that isn't so if you've recorded it, then you start figuring, well, what can I do? How can I fix this? You know, live, you do it and it's done. That's, that's what it is, moving right along. And this, this comment, gets to be kind of comfortable, you know, that you're going to, there may be some mistakes. You do the best you can with it, and go on one of the things that's really the news that that happens, the news, you know, every night, and with all the other shows that are live every day,   Michael Hingson ** 20:26 one of the things that I've noticed in a number of radio shows, there are times that it's fairly obvious that somebody made a flub of some sort, but they integrated it in, and they were able to adapt and react, and it just became part of the show. And sometimes it became a funny thing, but a lot of times they just worked it in, because people knew how to do that. And I'm not sure that that is so much the case certainly today on television, because in reality, you get to do it over and over, and they'll edit films and all that. And so you don't have that, that same sort of thing, but some of those challenges and flubs that did occur on radio were really like in the Jack Benny shows and burns and Allen and Phil Harris and so on. They were, they just became integrated in and they they became classic events, even though they weren't necessarily originally part of the plan.   Ivan Cury ** 21:25 Absolutely, some of some of them, I suspect some of them, were planned and planned to sound as if they would just happen. But certainly mistakes. Gosh, good mistakes are wonderful. Yeah, in all kinds of I used to do a lot of live television, and even if we weren't live television, when we would just do something and we were going to tape it and do it later, I remember once the camera kind of going wrong, video going wrong. I went, Wait a minute. That's great. Let's keep it wrong like that, you know. And it was so is just lovely that that's part of the art of improvisation, with how   Michael Hingson ** 22:06 and and I think there was a lot more of that, certainly in radio, than there is on television today, because very few things are really live in the same   Ivan Cury ** 22:17 sense. No, there. There are some kinds of having written, there are some type formats that are live. The news is live, the news is live. There's no, you know, there are. There used to be, and there may still be some of the afternoon shows, the kind of morning and afternoon shows where Show and Tell Dr whatever his name is, Dr Phil, yeah, it may be live, or it's shot as live, and they don't, they don't really have a budget to edit, so it's got to be real bad before they edit. Yeah. So do a show like that called Woman of CBS. So there are shows that are live, like that, sport events are live. A lot of from Kennedy Center is live. There are, there are lots of programs that are live, concerts, that are that you are a lot of them. America's Got Talent might as well be live. So there's a lot of that. And certainly things go wrong in the ad lib, and that's the way, because, in fact, there's some lovely things that happen out of that, but mostly, you're absolutely right. Mostly you do show it's recorded. You intend to edit it, you plan it to be edited, and you do it. It's also different when you shoot multiple camera, as opposed to single camera, yeah, single camera being as you say, again and again and again, multiple camera, not so much, although I used to direct the young and the restless, and now there is a line cut which is almost never used. It's it's the intention, but every shot is isolated and then cleaned up so that it's whatever is, whatever is possibly wrong with it gets clean.   Michael Hingson ** 24:03 Yeah, it's, it's a sign of the changing times and how things, everything   Ivan Cury ** 24:09 is bad. It's just, it's different. In fact, that's a kind of question I'm really puzzled with right now for the fun of it. And that is about AI, is it good or bad?   Michael Hingson ** 24:20 Well, and it's like anything else, of course, it depends. One of the one of my, my favorite, one of my favorite things about AI is a few years, a couple of years ago, I was at a Christmas party when there was somebody there who was complaining about the fact that kids were writing their papers using AI,   Ivan Cury ** 24:43 and that's bad   Michael Hingson ** 24:44 and and although people have worked on trying to be able to detect AI, the reality is that this person was complaining that the kids were even doing it. And I didn't think about it until later, but I realized. Is one of the greatest blessings of AI is let the students create their papers using AI. What the teachers need to do is to get more creative. And by that I mean All right, so when children turn in and students turn in their papers, then take a day and let every student take about a minute and come up and defend the paper they wrote. You're going to find out really quickly who really knew the subject and who just let ai do it and didn't have any interaction with it. But what a great way to learn. You're going to find out very quickly. And kids are going to figure out very quickly that they need to really know the subject, because they're going to have to defend their   Ivan Cury ** 25:41 papers. Yeah, no, I think that's fine. I I don't like the amount of electricity that it requires and what it's doing to our to our needs for water, because it has to be cooled down. So there's some physical things that I don't like about AI, and I think it's like when you used to have to go into a test with a slide rule, and they you couldn't use your calculator. When I use a calculator, it's out of the bag. You can't put it back anymore. It's a part of our life, and how to use it is the question. And I think you're absolutely right. I don't even need to know whether. I'm not even sure you need to check the kids if they it. How will you use? How will we get to use? Ai, it is with us.   Michael Hingson ** 26:30 Well, but I think there's a the value of of checking and testing. Why I'm with you. I don't think it's wrong. I think, no, no, but I think the value is that it's going to make them really learn the subject. I've written articles, and I've used AI to write articles, and I will look at them. I'll actually have a create, like, eight or nine different versions, and I will decide what I like out of each of them, and then I will add my part to it, because I have to make it me, and I've always realized that. So I know anything that I write, I can absolutely defend, because I'm very integrally involved in what I do with it, although AI has come up with some very clever ideas. Yeah, I hadn't thought of but I still add value to it, and I think that's what's really important.   Ivan Cury ** 27:19 I did a I've been writing stuff for a while, and one of the things I did, I wrote this. I wrote a little piece. And I thought, well, what? What would ai do if they took the same piece? How would they do it? So I put it in and said, rewrite it. They did. It was kind of bland. They'd taken all the life out of it. It wasn't very Yeah. So then I said, Well, wait a minute, do the same thing, write it as if it were written by Damon Runyon. And so they took it and they did that, and it was way over the top and really ugly, but it I kind of had fun with what, what the potential was, and how you might want to use it. I mean, I think the way you using it is exactly right. Yeah, it's how you use it, when, when you when, I'm just as curious, when you do that, when you said, you write something, and you ask them to do it four or five times or many times. How do you how do you require them to do it differently.   Michael Hingson ** 28:23 Well, there are a couple different ways. One is, there are several different models that can use to generate the solution. But even leaving aside such as, Oh, let's see, one is, you go out and do more web research before you actually do the do the writing. And so that's one thing and another. I'm trying to remember there were, like, six models that I found on one thing that I did yesterday, and but, but the other part about it is that with AI, yeah, the other thing about AI is that you can just tell it you don't like the response that you   Ivan Cury ** 29:09 got. Aha, okay, all right, yep,   Michael Hingson ** 29:13 I got it. And when you do that, it will create a different response, which is one of the things that you want. So, so so that works out pretty well. And what I did on something, I wanted to write a letter yesterday, and I actually had it write it. I actually had it do it several times. And one time I told it to look at the web to help generate more information, which was pretty cool, but, but the reality is that, again, I also think that I need to be a part of the the solution. So I had to put my my comments into it as well, and, and that worked out pretty well. Okay, right? Yeah, so I mean, it's cool, and it worked. Right? And so the bottom line is we we got a solution, but I think that AI is a tool that we can use, and if we use it right, it will enhance us. And it's something that we all have to choose how we're going to do. There's no no come, yeah, no question about that. So tell me you were successful as a young actor. So what kind of what what advice or what kind of thoughts do you have about youth success, and what's your takeaway from that?   Ivan Cury ** 30:36 The Good, yeah, I There are a lot of things being wanting to do it, and I really love doing it, I certainly didn't want to. I wanted to do it as the best way I could Well, I didn't want to lose it up, is what it really comes down to. And that meant figuring out what it is that required. And one of the things that required was a sense of responsibility. You had to be there on time, you had to be on stage, and you may want to fidget, but that takes to distract from what's going on, so sit still. So there's a kind of kind of responsibility that that you learn, that I learned, I think early on, that was, that's very useful. Yeah, that's, that's really, I think that's, I wrote some things that I had, I figured, some of these questions that might be around. So there, there's some I took notes about it. Well, oh, attention to details. Yeah, to be care to be watch out for details. And a lot of the things can be carried on into later life, things about detailed, things about date. Put a date on, on papers. When, when did, when was this? No, when was this note? What? When did this happen? Just keeping track of things. I still am sort of astonished at how, how little things add up, how we just just noted every day. And at the end of a year, you've made 365 notes,   Michael Hingson ** 32:14 yeah, well, and then when you go back and read them, which is also part of the issue, is that you got to go back and look at them to to see what   Ivan Cury ** 32:23 right or to just know that they're there so that you can refer to them. When did that happen?   Michael Hingson ** 32:28 Oh, right. And what did you say? You know, that's the point. Is that when I started writing thunder dog, my first book was suggested that I should start it, and I started writing it, what I started doing was creating notes. I actually had something like 1.2 megabytes of notes by the time we actually got around to doing the book. And it was actually eight years after I started doing some, well, seven years after I started doing writing on it. But the point is that I had the information, and I constantly referred back to it, and I even today, when I deliver a speech, I like to if there's a possibility of having it recorded, I like to go back and listen, because I want to make sure that I'm not changing things I shouldn't change and or I want to make sure that I'm really communicating with the audience, because I believe that my job is to talk with an audience, not to an audience.   Ivan Cury ** 33:24 Yeah, yeah. I we say that I'm reading. There are three books I'm reading right now, one of them, one of them, the two of them are very well, it doesn't matter. One is called who ate the oyster? Who ate the first oyster? And it's a it's really about paleon. Paleological. I'm saying the word wrong, and I'm paleontological. Paleontological, yeah, study of a lot of firsts, and it's a lovely but the other one is called shady characters by Keith Houston, and it's a secret life of punctuation symbols and other typographical marks, and I am astonished at the number of of notes that go along with it. Probably 100 100 pages of footnotes to all of the things that that are a part of how these words came to be. And they're all, I'm not looking at the footnotes, because there's just too many, but it's kind of terrific to check out. To be that clear about where did this idea come from, where did this statement come from? I'm pleased about that. I asked my wife recently if you could be anything you want other than what you are. What would you want to be? What other what other job or would you want to have? The first one that came to mind for me, which I was surprised that was a librarian. I just like the detail. I think that's   Michael Hingson ** 34:56 doesn't go anywhere. There you go. Well, but there's so. There's a lot of detail, and you get to be involved with so many different kinds of subjects, and you never know what people are going to ask you on any given day. So there's a lot of challenge and fun to that.   Ivan Cury ** 35:11 Well, to me also just putting things in order, I was so surprised to discover that in the Dewey Decimal System, the theater is 812 and right next to it, the thing that's right next to it is poetry. I was surprised. It's interesting, yeah, the library and play that out.   Michael Hingson ** 35:29 Well, you were talking about punctuation. Immediately I thought of EE Cummings. I'll bet he didn't pay much attention to punctuation at all. I love him. He's great, yeah, isn't he? Yeah, it's a lot of fun. An interesting character by any standard. So, so you, you progressed into television, if, I guess it's progressing well, like, if we answer to Fred Allen, it's not, but that's okay.   Ivan Cury ** 35:54 Well, what happens? You know, after, after, I became 18, and is an interesting moment in my life, where they were going to do film with Jimmy Dean, James Dean, James Dean. And it came down and he was going to have a sidekick, a kid sidekick. And it came down to me and Sal Mineo. And Sal got it, by the way. Case you didn't know, but one of the things was I was asked I remember at Columbia what I wanted to do, and I said I wanted to go to college, and my there was a kind of like, oh, yeah, right. Well, then you're not going to go to this thing, because we don't. We want you to be in Hollywood doing the things. And yes, and I did go to college, which is kind of great. So what happened was, after, when I became 18, I went to Carnegie tech and studied theater arts. Then I after that, I studied at Boston University and got a master's there, so that I had an academic, an academic part of my life as well, right? Which ran out well, because in my later years, I became a professor and wrote some   Michael Hingson ** 36:56 books, and that was your USC, right? No, Cal State, Lacher State, LA and UCLA. And UCLA, not USC. Oh, shame on me. But that's my wife. Was a USC graduate, so I've always had loyalty. There you go. But I went to UC Irvine, so you know, okay, both systems, whatever.   Ivan Cury ** 37:16 Well, you know, they're both UC system, and that's different, yeah, the research institutes, as opposed to the Cal State, which   Michael Hingson ** 37:23 are more teaching oriented, yeah,   Ivan Cury ** 37:26 wow, yeah, that's, that's what it says there in the paper.   Michael Hingson ** 37:30 Yes, that's what it says. But you know, so you went into television. So what did you mainly do in the in the TV world?   Ivan Cury ** 37:44 Well, when I got out of when I got through school, I got through the army, I came back to New York, and I, oh, I got a job versus the Girl Scouts, doing public relations. I I taught at Hunter College for a year. Taught speech. One of the required courses at Carnegie is voice and diction, and it's a really good course. So I taught speech at Hunter College, and a friend of mine was the second alternate maker man at Channel 13 in New York. He had opera tickets, so he said, Look standard for me, it's easy, men seven and women five, and telling women to put on their own lipstick. So I did. I did that, and I became then he couldn't do it anymore, so I became the second alternate make a man. Then it didn't matter. Within within six months, I was in charge of makeup for any t which I could do, and I was able to kind of get away with it. And I did some pretty good stuff, some prosthetic pieces, and it was okay, but I really didn't want to do that. I wanted to direct, if I could. And so then I they, they knew that, and I they knew that I was going to leave if, if, because I wasn't going to be a makeup I didn't. So I became a stage manager, and then an associate director, and then a director at Channel 13 in New York. And I directed a lot of actors, choice the biggest show I did there, or the one that Well, I did a lot of I also worked with a great guy named Kirk Browning, who did the a lot of the NBC operas, and who did all of the opera stuff in for any t and then I wound up doing a show called Soul, which was a black variety show. But when I say black variety show, it was with James Baldwin and but by the OJS and the unifics and the delphonics and Maya Angelou and, you know, so it was a black culture show, and I was the only white guy except the camera crew there. But had a really terrific time. Left there and went and directed for CBS. I did camera three. So I did things like the 25th anniversary of the Juilliard stringer check. Quartet. But I was also directing a show called woman, which was one of the earliest feminist programs, where I was the only male and an all female show. And actually I left and became the only gringo on an all Latino show called aqui I ahora. So I had a strange career in television as a director, and then did a lot of commercials for about 27 years, I directed or worked on the Men's Warehouse commercials. Those are the facts. I guarantee it.   Michael Hingson ** 40:31 Did you get to meet George Zimmer? Oh, very, very, very often, 27 years worth, I would figure, yeah.   Ivan Cury ** 40:39 I mean, what? I'm enemies. When I met him, he's a boy, a mere boy.   Michael Hingson ** 40:45 Did you act during any of this time? Or were you no no behind the camera once?   Ivan Cury ** 40:50 Well, the only, the only acting I did was occasionally. I would go now in a store near you, got it, and I had this voice that they decided, Ivan, we don't want you to do it anymore. It just sounds too much like we want, let George do this, please.   Michael Hingson ** 41:04 So, so you didn't get to do much, saying of things like, But wait, there's more, right?   Ivan Cury ** 41:10 No, not at all. Okay, okay. Oh, but you do that very well. Let's try.   Michael Hingson ** 41:13 Wait, there's more, okay. Well, that's cool. Well, that was,   Ivan Cury ** 41:18 it was kind of fun, and it was kind of fun, but they had to, it was kind of fun to figure out things. I remember we did. We had a thing where some of those commercial we did some commercials, and this is the thing, I sort of figured out customers would call in. So we recorded their, their call ins, and I they, we said, with calls being recorded. We took the call ins and I had them sent to it a typist who typed up what they wrote that was sent to New York to an advertising agency would extract, would extract questions or remarks that people had made about the stuff, the remarks, the tapes would be then sent to who did that? I think we edited the tapes to make it into a commercial, but the tags needed to be done by an announcer who said, in a store near you were opening sooner, right? Wyoming, and so those the announcer for the Men's Warehouse was a guy in in Houston. So we'd send, we'd send that thing to him, and he'd send us back a digital package with the with the tags. And the fun of it was that was, it was from, the calls are from all over the world. The the edits on paper were done in New York, the physical work was done in San Francisco. The announcer was in Houston. And, you know? And it's just kind of fun to be able to do that, that to see, particularly having come from, having come from 1949 Yeah, where that would have been unheard of to kind of have that access to all that was just fun, kind   Michael Hingson ** 42:56 of fun. But think about it now, of course, where we have so much with the internet and so on, it'd be so much easier, in a lot of ways, to just have everyone meet on the same network and   Ivan Cury ** 43:09 do now it's now, it's nothing. I mean, now it's just, that's the way it is. Come on.   Michael Hingson ** 43:13 Yeah, exactly. So. So you know, one of the things that I've been thinking about is that, yes, we've gone from radio to television and a whole new media and so on. But at the same time, I'm seeing a fairly decent resurgence of people becoming fascinated with radio and old radio and listening to the old programs. Do you see that?   Ivan Cury ** 43:41 Well, I, I wish I did. I don't my, my take on it. It comes strictly from that such, so anecdotal. It's like, in my grandkids, I have these shows that I've done, and it's, you know, it's grandpa, and here it is, and there it's the bobby Benson show, or it's calculator America, whatever, 30 seconds. That's what they give me. Yeah, then it's like, Thanks, grandpa. Whoopie. I don't know. I think maybe there may there may be something, but I would, I'd want some statistical evidence about well, but   Michael Hingson ** 44:19 one of the things I'm thinking of when I talk about the resurgence, is that we're now starting to see places like radio enthusiasts to Puget Sound reps doing recreations of, oh yes, Carl Omari has done the Twilight Zone radio shows. You know, there are some things that are happening, but reps among others, and spurred back to some degree, yeah, spurred back is, is the Society for the Prevention, oh, gosh,   Ivan Cury ** 44:46 not cruelty children, although enrichment   Michael Hingson ** 44:49 of radio   Ivan Cury ** 44:50 drama and comedy, right? Society, right? Yeah, and reps is regional enthusiasts of Puget Sound, Puget   Michael Hingson ** 44:58 Sound and. Reps does several recreations a year. In fact, there's one coming up in September. Are you going to   Ivan Cury ** 45:04 that? Yes, I am. I'm supposed to be. Yes, I think I Yes. I am.   Michael Hingson ** 45:08 Who you're going to play? I have no idea. Oh, you don't know yet.   Ivan Cury ** 45:12 Oh, no, no, that's fun. You get there, I think they're going to have me do a Sam Spade. There is another organization up there called the American radio theater, right? And I like something. I love those people. And so they did a lot of Sam Spade. And so I expect I'm going to be doing a Sam Spade, which I look forward to.   Michael Hingson ** 45:32 I was originally going to it to a reps event. I'm not going to be able to this time because somebody has hired me to come and speak and what I was going to do, and we've postponed it until I can, can be the one to do it is Richard diamond private detective, which is about my most favorite radio show. So I'm actually going to play, able to play Richard diamond. Oh, how great. Oh, that'll be a lot of fun. Yeah. So it'll probably be next year at this point now, but it but it will happen.   Ivan Cury ** 45:59 I think this may, yeah, go ahead. This may be my last, my last show I'm getting it's getting tough to travel.   Michael Hingson ** 46:07 Yeah, yeah, I don't know. Let's see. Let's see what happens. But, but it is fun, and I've met several people through their Carolyn Grimes, of course, who played Zuzu on It's A Wonderful Life. And in fact, we're going to have her on unstoppable mindset in the not too distant future, which is great, but I've met her and and other people, which I   Ivan Cury ** 46:34 think that's part of the for me. That really is part of the fun. Yeah, you become for me now it has become almost a sec, a family, in the same way that when you do show, if you do a show regularly, it is, it really becomes a family. And when the show is over, it's that was, I mean, one of the first things as a kid that was, that was really kind of tough for every day, or every other day I would meet the folks of Bobby Benson and the B Barbie writers. And then I stopped doing the show, and I didn't see them and didn't see them again. You know, I Don Knotts took me to I had the first shrimp of my life. Don Knotts took me to take tough and Eddie's in New York. Then I did another show called paciolini, which was a kind of Italian version of The Goldbergs. And that was, I was part of that family, and then that kind of went away. I was Porsche son on Porsche faces life, and then that way, so the you have these families and they and then you lose them, but, but by going to these old events, there is that sense of family, and there are also, what is just astonishing to me is all those people who know who knows stuff. One day I mentioned Frank Milano. Now, nobody who knows Frank Milano. These guys knew them. Oh, Frank, yeah, he did. Frank Milano was a sound. Was did animal sounds. There were two guys who did animal sounds particularly well. One was Donald Baines, who I worked with on the first day I ever did anything. He played the cow on Jack and the Beanstalk and and Frank, Don had, Don had a wonderful bar room bet, and that was that he could do the sound effects of a fish. Wow. And what is the sound effect of a fish? So now you gotta be required. Here's the sound effect of a fish. This was what he went $5 bets with you. Ready? Here we go.   Michael Hingson ** 48:41 Good job. Yeah, good job. Yeah. It's like, what was it on? Was it Jack Benny? They had a kangaroo, and I think it was Mel Blanc was asked to do the kangaroo, which is, of course, another one where they're not really a sound, but you have to come up with a sound to do it on radio, right?   Ivan Cury ** 49:06 Yes. Oh my god, there were people who want I could do dialects, I could do lots of German film, and I could do the harness. Was very easy for me to do, yeah, so I did love and I got to lots of jobs because I was a kid and I could do all these accents. There was a woman named Brianna Rayburn. And I used to do a lot of shows in National Association of churches of Christ in the United States. And the guy who was the director, John Gunn, we got to know each other. He was talking about, we talked with dialects. He said Briana Rayburn had come in. She was to play a Chinese woman. And she really asked him, seriously, what part of China Do you want her to come from? Oh, wow. I thought that was just super. And she was serious. She difference, which is studied, studied dialects in in. In college not long after, I could do them, and discovered that there were many, many English accents. I knew two or three cockney I could do, but there were lots of them that could be done. And we had the most fun. We had a German scholar from Germany, from Germany, and we asked him if he was doing speaking German, but doing playing the part of an American what would it sound like speaking German with an American accent? You know, it was really weird.   Michael Hingson ** 50:31 I had a history teacher, yes, who was from the Bronx, who spoke German, yeah, and he fought in World War Two. And in fact, he was on guard duty one night, and somebody took a shot at him, and so he yelled back at them in German. The accent was, you know, I took German, so I don't understand it all that well, but, but listening to him with with a New York accent, speaking German was really quite a treat. The accent spilled through, but, but they didn't shoot at him anymore. So I think he said something, what are you shooting at me for? Knock it off. But it was so funny, yeah, but they didn't shoot at him anymore because he spoke, yeah, yeah. It was kind of cool. Well, so with all that you've learned, what kind of career events have have sort of filtered over into what you do today?   Ivan Cury ** 51:28 Oh, I don't know. We, you know. But one of the things I wanted to say, it was one of the things that I learned along the way, which is not really answering your question until I get back to it, was, I think one of those best things I learned was that, however important it is that that you like someone, or you're with somebody and everything is really terrific. One of the significant things that I wish I'd learned earlier, and I think is really important, is how do you get along when you don't agree? And I think that's really very important.   Michael Hingson ** 52:01 Oh, it's so important. And we, in today's society, it's especially important because no one can tolerate anyone anymore if they disagree with them, they're you're wrong, and that's all there is to it. And that just is so unfortunate. There's no There's no really looking at alternatives, and that is so scary   Ivan Cury ** 52:20 that may not be an alternative. It may not be,   Michael Hingson ** 52:23 but if somebody thinks there is, you should at least respect the opinion,   Ivan Cury ** 52:28 whatever it is, how do you get along with the people you don't   Michael Hingson ** 52:32 agree with? Right?   Ivan Cury ** 52:35 And you should one that you love that you don't agree with, right? This may sound strange, but my wife and I do not agree about everything all the time, right?   Michael Hingson ** 52:43 What a concept. My wife and I didn't agree about everything all the time. Really, that's amazing, and it's okay, you know? And in fact, we both one of the the neat things, I would say, is we both learned so much from each other when we disagreed, but would talk about it, and we did a lot of talking and communicating, which I always felt was one of the most important things about our marriage. So we did, we learned a lot, and we knew how to get along, and we knew that if we disagreed, it was okay, because even if we didn't change each other's opinion, we didn't need to try to change each other's opinion, but if we work together and learn to respect the other opinion, that's what really mattered, and you learn more about the individual that way,   Ivan Cury ** 53:30 yeah, and also you have you learn about giving up. Okay, I think you're wrong, but if that's really what you want exactly, I'll do it. We'll do it your way?   Michael Hingson ** 53:42 Yeah, well, exactly. And I think it's so important that we really put some of that into perspective, and it's so crucial to do that, but there's so much disagreement today, and nobody wants to talk to anybody. You're wrong. I'm right. That's all there is to it. Forget it, and that's just not the way the world should be.   Ivan Cury ** 53:59 No, no. I wanted to go on to something that you had asked about, what I think you asked about, what's now I have been writing. I have been writing to a friend who I've been writing a lot of very short pieces, to a friend who had a stroke and who doesn't we can't meet as much as we use. We can't meet at all right now. And but I wanted to just go on, I'm and I said that I've done something really every week, and I'd like to put some of these things together into a book. And what I've been doing, looking for really is someone to work with. And so I keep writing the things, the thing that I wrote just today, this recent one, had to do with I was thinking about this podcast. Is what made me think of it. I thought about the stars that I had worked with, you know, me and the stars, because I had lots. Stories with with people who are considered stars, Charles Lawton, Don Knotts, Gene crane, Maya, Angelou, Robert Kennedy, the one I wrote about today. I wrote about two people. I thought it'd be fun to put them together, James Dean and Jimmy Dean. James Dean, just going to tell you the stories about them, because it's the kind of thing I'm writing about now. James Dean, we worked together on a show called Crime syndicated. He had just become really hot in New York, and we did this show where there were a bunch of probably every teenage actor in New York was doing this show. We were playing two gangs, and Jimmy had an extraordinary amount of lines. And we said, What the hell are you going to do, Jim? If you, you know, if you lose lines, he's, this is live. And he said, No problem. And then what he said is, all I do is I start talking, and then I just move my mouth like I'm walking talking, and everybody will think the audio went out. Oh, and that's, that's what he was planning on doing. I don't know if he really is going to do it. He was perfect. You know, he's just wonderful. He did his show. The show was great. We were all astonished to be working with some not astonished, but really glad to just watch him work, because he was just so very good. And we had a job. And then stories with Jimmy Dean. There were a couple of stories with Jimmy Dean, the singer and the guy of sausage, right? The last one to make it as fast, the last one was, we were in Nashville, at the Grand Ole Opry Opperman hotel. I was doing a show with him, and I was sitting in the bar, the producer and someone other people, and there was a regular Graceland has a regular kind of bar. It's a small bar of chatter, cash register, husband, wife, team on the stage singing. And suddenly, as we were talking, it started to get very quiet. And what had happened is Jimmy Dean had come into the room. He had got taken the guitar, and he started to sing, and suddenly it just got quiet, very quiet in the room. The Register didn't ring. He sang one song and he sang another song. His applause. He said, Thank you. Gave the guitar back to the couple. Walked off the stage. It was quiet while a couple started to sing again. They were good. He started to sing. People began to chatter again. The cash register rang, and I, I certainly have no idea how he managed to command that room to have everybody shut up while he sang and listened to him. He didn't do anything. There was nothing, you know, no announcement. It wasn't like, oh, look, there's Jimmy. It was just his, his performance. It was great, and I was really glad to be working with him the next day well.   Michael Hingson ** 57:56 And I think that having that kind of command and also being unassuming about it is pretty important if you've got an ego and you think you're the greatest thing, and that's all there is to it. That shows too, yeah?   Ivan Cury ** 58:08 Well, some people live on it, on that ego, yeah, and I'm successful on it, I don't think that was what. It certainly   Michael Hingson ** 58:17 wasn't, no, no, no, and I'm not saying that. I'm sure it wasn't that's my point. Yeah, no, because I think that the ultimate best people are the ones who don't do it with ego or or really project that ego. I think that's so important, as I said earlier, for me, when I go to speak, my belief is I'm going to to do what I can to help whatever event I'm at, it isn't about me at all. It's more about the audience. It's more about what can I inspire this audience with? What can I tell the audience and talk with the audience about, and how can I relate to them so that I'm saying something that they want to hear, and that's what I have to do. So if you had the opportunity to go back and talk to a younger Ivan, what would you tell him?   Ivan Cury ** 59:08 Cut velvet? No, there you go. No, what? I don't. I really don't. I don't know.   Michael Hingson ** 59:18 Talk Like a fish. More often   Ivan Cury ** 59:20 talk like a fish. More on there. Maybe. No, I really don't know. I don't know. I think about that sometimes, what it always seems to be a question, what? Really it's a question, What mistakes did you make in life that you wish you hadn't done? What door you wish Yeah, you would open that you didn't? Yeah, and I really don't, I don't know. I can't think of anything that I would do differently and maybe and that I think there's a weakness, because surely there must be things like that. I think a lot of things that happen to one in life anyway have to do with luck. That's not, sort of not original. But I was surprised to hear one day there was a. It. Obama was being interviewed by who was by one of the guys, I've forgotten his name that. And he was talking about his career, and he said he felt that part of his success had been a question of luck. And I very surprised to hear him say that. But even with, within with my career, I think a lot of it had to do with luck I happen to meet somebody that right time. I didn't meet somebody at the right time. I think, I think if I were to do so, if you would, you did ask the question, and I'd be out more, I would be pitching more. I think I've been lazy in that sense, if I wanted to do more that. And I've come to the West Coast quicker, but I was doing a lot of was in New York and having a good time   Michael Hingson ** 1:00:50 Well, and that's important too, yeah. So I don't know that I changed, I Yeah, and I don't know that I would find anything major to change. I think if somebody asked me that question, I'd say, tell my younger self that life is an adventure, enjoy it to the fullest and have fun.   Ivan Cury ** 1:01:12 Oh, well, that's yes. That was the I always believe that, yeah, yeah. It's not a question for me, and in fact, it's one of the things I told my kids that you Abraham Lincoln, you know, said that really in it, in a way a long time ago. He said that you choose you a lot of what you way you see your life has to do with the way the choices you make about how to see it, right? Yeah, which is so cool, right? And one of the ways you might see it says, have fun,   Michael Hingson ** 1:01:39 absolutely well, Ivan, this has been absolutely fun. We've been doing it for an hour, believe it or not, and I want to thank you for being here. And I also want to thank everyone who is listening for being with us today. I hope you've enjoyed this conversation, and I'd love to hear what your thoughts are. Please feel free to email me. I'd love to hear your thoughts about this. Email me at Michael h i at accessibe, A, C, C, E, S, S, i, b, e.com, so Ivan, if people want to reach out to you, how do they do that?   Ivan Cury ** 1:02:10 Oh, dear. Oh, wait a minute, here we go. Gotta stop this. I curyo@gmail.com I C, u, r, y, o@gmail.com There you go. Cury 1r and an O at the end of it, not a zero. I curyo@gmail.com Yeah.   Michael Hingson ** 1:02:30 Well, great. Well, thank you again, and all of you wherever you're listening, I hope that you'll give us a great review wherever you're listening. Please give us a five star review. We appreciate it, and Ivan, for you and for everyone else listening. If you know anyone else who ought to be a guest on our podcast, love to hear from you. Love an introduction to whoever you might have as a person who ought to come on the podcast, because I think everyone has stories to tell, and I want to give people the opportunity to do it. So once again, I want to thank you, Ivan, for being here. We really appreciate it. Thanks for coming on and being with us today. Thank you.   1:03:10 You have been listening to the Unstoppable Mindset podcast. Thanks for dropping by. I hope that you'll join us again next week, and in future weeks for upcoming episodes. To subscribe to our podcast and to learn about upcoming episodes, please visit www dot Michael hingson.com slash podcast. Michael Hingson is spelled m i c h a e l h i n g s o n. While you're on the site., please use the form there to recommend people who we ought to interview in upcoming editions of the show. And also, we ask you and urge you to invite your friends to join us in the future. If you know of any one or any organization needing a speaker for an event, please email me at speaker at Michael hingson.com. I appreciate it very much. To learn more about the concept of blinded by fear, please visit www dot Michael hingson.com forward slash blinded by fear and while you're there, feel free to pick up a copy of my free eBook entitled blinded by fear. The unstoppable mindset podcast is provided by access cast an initiative of accessiBe and is sponsored by accessiBe. Please visit www.accessibe.com . AccessiBe is spelled a c c e s s i b e. There you can learn all about how you can make your website inclusive for all persons with disabilities and how you can help make the internet fully inclusive by 2025. Thanks again for Listening. Please come back and visit us again next week.

This episode originally aired January 24, 2018. Oprah's heart-to-heart conversation with the late Dr. Maya Angelou continues. Dr. Angelou shares some of her greatest life lessons on aging brilliantly and living with gratitude. She is moved to tears as she recalls the revelation that changed her life forever, and reveals the best piece of advice she ever received.

This episode originally aired January 22, 2018. In the first of a special two-part podcast, Oprah has a conversation with her beloved mentor, the late poet, author, icon and activist Dr. Maya Angelou. She's also the woman Oprah called her mother, sister and friend for more than 30 years. Oprah says, "She was there for me always, guiding me through some of the most important years of my life. The world knows her as a poet, but at the heart of her, she was a teacher." Dr. Angelou discusses her last book, "Mom & Me & Mom," delving into one of the deepest personal stories of her life: her relationship with her mother. Dr. Angelou shares intimate memories of her childhood, including the nine words her nurturing yet fiery mother said to her that changed her life forever, challenging her to find strength in the face of adversity.

durée : 00:57:38 - Toute une vie - Maya Angelou a été chanteuse, actrice, poète, essayiste et enfin professeure d'université, pourtant sans diplôme. Son cursus honorum, c'est sa vie telle qu'elle l'a menée. - réalisation : Yvon Croizier

durée : 00:43:18 - Les Midis de Culture - par : Chloë Cambreling - A l'occasion de la publication récente de deux de ses ouvrages, retour sur l'œuvre de la poétesse, activiste et icône américaine Maya Angelou, avec l'autrice Axelle Jah Njiké, préfacière de "Maman et moi et maman" et Santiago Artozqui, traducteur du recueil de poèmes "Rien ne me fera plier". - réalisation : Olivier Bétard - invités : Axelle Jah Njiké Autrice et militante féministe; Santiago Artozqui Traducteur

Send us a textWhat happens when Southern hospitality meets New York Assertiveness? You get Jennifer Logue, the force behind Phenomenal Speaking, who's transforming how Leaders communicate through a powerful blend of Emotional Intelligence and Radical Candor.Jennifer's journey began in the South, where family values and entrepreneurial spirit shaped her foundation. Her grandfather – a trial attorney she affectionately calls "Papa" – showed her what true Leadership looks like by fighting for justice while raising three strong women. "Remember you are loved," his words that catch in her throat when she shares them, became both her personal mantra and professional compass.When Jennifer arrived in New York at 21, the city immediately taught her a crucial lesson: you can't control everything, but you can choose how you respond. Managing Irish pubs and nightclubs became her MBA in human behavior, teaching her to cool down tense situations while maintaining boundaries. This unique combination – creating space for people to be heard while moving them toward action – now defines her Executive Coaching approach.What makes Jennifer's method truly "phenomenal" is how she weaves together seemingly contradictory strengths. Named after Maya Angelou's poem "Phenomenal Woman," her business embodies both fierce advocacy and deep empathy. "People forget what you've said, they'll forget what you've done, but they'll never forget how you made them feel," she quotes Angelou, explaining how this philosophy guides her work with clients.When not Coaching Executives, Jennifer performs with her Theatre Company "Our Bar NYC" and Jug-Band "The Salt Cracker Crazies", channels her inner Gamer with titles like Red Dead Redemption 2, and spoils Hazelnut, her beloved dog. These creative outlets keep her grounded and remind her of the importance of play in professional growth.Want to develop your own communication superpowers? Connect with Jennifer at www.phenomenalspeaking.com and discover how emotional intelligence can transform your leadership presence while staying authentically you.Tune in next week for more stories of 'Distinction & Genius' from The Good Listening To Show 'Clearing'. If you would like to be my Guest too then you can find out HOW via the different 'series strands' at 'The Good Listening To Show' website. Show Website: https://www.thegoodlisteningtoshow.com You can email me about the Show: chris@secondcurve.uk Twitter thatchrisgrimes LinkedIn https://www.linkedin.com/in/chris-grimes-actor-broadcaster-facilitator-coach/ FaceBook Group: https://www.facebook.com/groups/842056403204860 Don't forget to SUBSCRIBE & REVIEW wherever you get your Podcasts :) Thanks for listening!

durée : 00:27:38 - Les Midis de Culture - par : Marie Labory - Au programme aujourd'hui, une émission spéciale littérature ! Les critiques partagent leurs coups de cœurs littéraires, avec deux livres parus récemment, et deux plus anciens, à mettre dans vos valises cet été. - réalisation : Laurence Malonda - invités : Marie Sorbier Productrice du "Point Culture" sur France Culture, et rédactrice en chef de I/O; Johan Faerber Editeur, essayiste, critique littéraire.

durée : 01:59:55 - Les Matins du samedi - par : Nicolas Herbeaux - Cette semaine, dans les Matins du samedi, on s'intéresse à la pêche au chalut dans la Transition de la semaine, on discute de l'état des lieux alarmant de l'enseignement supérieur en France. Et enfin, nous recevons Santiago Artozqui à propos du nouveau recueil de poèmes de Maya Angelou. - réalisation : Jean-Christophe Francis - invités : Didier Gascuel Directeur du Centre de Sciences Aquatiques et de la Pêche à l'Agrocampus Ouest de Rennes, membre du Conseil scientifique des pêches de l'Union Européenne.; Julien Gossa Maître de conférence à l'Université de Strasbourg; Cédric Hugrée Sociologue, chercheur au CNRS au sein du laboratoire CRESPPA-CSU; Santiago Artozqui Traducteur

durée : 00:18:15 - France Culture va plus loin le samedi - par : Nicolas Herbeaux, Margaux Leridon - À l'occasion de la sortie du recueil de poèmes "Rien ne me fera plier" aux éditions Seghers, Nicolas Herbeaux reçoit son traducteur Santiago Artozqui. - réalisation : Jean-Christophe Francis - invités : Santiago Artozqui Traducteur

The Katherine Massey Book Club @ The C.O.W.S. hosts the 4th and final study session on the late Dr. Maya Angelou's A Song Flung Up To Heaven. This is the 6th autobiography in her 7 book memoir series. We read books 1, I Know Why The Caged Bird Sings, and 4, The Heart of a Woman. Dr. Angelou now reigns as the only author to have three books read on the Katherine Massey Book Club. We're reading this book to hear Dr. Angelou's depiction of the assassinations of Minister Malcolm X and Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. Last week, Dr. Angelou details returning to New York to hobnob with James Baldwin and her black artist and entertainer friends. Of course, they consume copious amounts of alcohol at all times. "The African" (Vus) returns to her life, even after they agreed to end their alleged marriage. She shares many of her mother Vivian Baxter's aphorisms and life sayings. Most of them are about as raggedy as the morning after a Mad Dog 20/20 hangover. Dr. Angelou then describes her tremendous disdain for Eldridge Cleaver and his controversial text, Soul On Ice. Baldwin seems to conclude that her primary problem with Cleaver's book is his alleged personal attack on Baldwin. He pleads with Dr. Angelou to look beyond her personal animosity to grasp the historic value of Cleaver's insight into the homosexual activity that Race Soldiers encourage in US prisons. At one point, Angelou says she would rather "hang" Cleaver, the privileged black male. #SNL50 #SoundtrackToACoupdÉtat #TheCOWS16Years INVEST in The COWS – http://paypal.me/TheCOWS Cash App: https://cash.app/$TheCOWS CALL IN NUMBER: 605.313.5164 CODE: 564943#

很多同学在面对 “see” 和 “she” 这两个单词时，常常混淆它们的发音。今天，卡卡老师就你清晰区分这两个单词的地道发音。see [siː]v. 看见；看到；领会；理解；查看；观看发音需注意：“s” 发音为 [s]，是清辅音，舌身相对较平，舌尖靠近上齿龈，气流从舌齿间送出，声带不振动。接着是长元音 [iː]，发音时嘴角向两边拉伸。例句：I can see a bird in the sky.我能看见天空中有一只鸟。she [ʃiː]pron. 她；（指雌性动物）它n. 女人；雌性动物发音要点：“sh” 发音为 [ʃ]，是清辅音，发音时发音时舌身向上抬起来，舌尖靠近上齿龈后部，接着是长元音 [iː]，发音时嘴角向两边拉伸，口型扁平且发音饱满。例句：She is a very kind girl.她是一个非常善良的女孩。听力练习：Angelou decides that she is to blame.安杰卢决定将错误归咎于自身。I look around at us, you know what I see?我环顾四周，知道我看到什么了吗？25期爱趣英文开启限额招募，跟着卡卡老师彻底摆脱懒癌，全面系统提升！公众号：卡卡课堂 卡卡老师微信：kakayingyu001

The Katherine Massey Book Club @ The C.O.W.S. hosts the 3rd study session on the late Dr. Maya Angelou's A Song Flung Up To Heaven. This is the 6th autobiography in her 7 book memoir series. We read books 1, I Know Why The Caged Bird Sings, and 4, The Heart of a Woman. Dr. Angelou now reigns as the only author to have three books read on the Katherine Massey Book Club. We're reading this book to hear Dr. Angelou's depiction of the assassinations of Minister Malcolm X and Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. Last week, Dr. Angelou detailed the smells and sounds from her sightseeing tours through the 1965 Watts riots. Oddly, she laments the lack of attention she receives while everyone is focused on the smoldering ruins and shootin' and lootin'. With a reputation as a poet, not a historian, Dr. Angelou is scant on specific details about what's happening during the infamous SoCal battle. The late Wanda Coleman wrote that a few of Dr. Angelou's descriptions of the Watts kerfuffle are factually incorrect. Later, the Wake Forest scholar tells us that she and her "former husband" Vus, who is not named in this book, attempt to reconcile. It fails miserably, and they resume the same toxic, destructive arguments they had on a different continent. We noted that the daily consumption of alcoholic beverages is a theme in both Dr. Angelou memoirs we read this year. Including the infamous Mogen David's "Mad Dog 20/20" - which is a fortified wine that's been banned in parts of Seattle, Washington. #SobrietytWouldBeBest #TheCOWS16Years INVEST in The COWS – http://paypal.me/TheCOWS Cash App: https://cash.app/$TheCOWS CALL IN NUMBER: 605.313.5164 CODE: 564943#

Follow me on social media, find links to merch, Patreon and more here! This week I'm joined by Chy Omai to discuss the final part of the RHOP reunion where Eddie brings out receipts against Stacey, Ashley and Wendy reveal more about Karen's drinking, Ray gives us facts on US car accidents, and more! Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

The Katherine Massey Book Club @ The C.O.W.S. hosts the 2nd study session on the late Dr. Maya Angelou's A Song Flung Up To Heaven. This is the 6th autobiography in her 7 book memoir series. We read books 1, I Know Why The Caged Bird Sings, and 4, The Heart of a Woman. Dr. Angelou now reigns as the only author to have three books read on the Katherine Massey Book Club. We're reading this book to hear Dr. Angelou's depiction of the assassinations of Minister Malcolm X and Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. Last week, we heard Dr. Angelou scrutinize the grammar of black Fillmore District residents following the murder of Malcolm X. Black people didn't riot and barely broke stride from our usual niggerized routines of drinking booze and name-calling black people. Feeling low, she jetted off to Hawaii with her sorrows. Importantly, Dr. Angelou mentions the lasting importance of the 1955 Montgomery Bus Boycott, which vaulted Dr. King to prominence and made Rosa Parks a household name. Pathetically, she lists the date the boycott as 1958 - which is 2 years after its conclusion. This sort of sloppiness is becoming a trend in Dr. Angelou's non-fiction and more broadly when many White and non-white people speak to an audience of black people and/or discuss events involving black people with a flagrant disregard for accuracy. #SNL50 #SoundtrackToACoupdÉtat#TheCOWS16Years INVEST in The COWS – http://paypal.me/TheCOWS Cash App: https://cash.app/$TheCOWS CALL IN NUMBER: 605.313.5164 CODE: 564943#

"Money Conspiracy": (Trump is a Bleacher) by Annarita StarliteStarlite, with yet, an exciting perspective, of life stories,  As you guessed mainly based on her story.Prejudice can be seen in all sorts of Forms. But some people find a overdoses of it, such as the case of Annarita Muragliaportraited by Laura.Mandela and Angelou had it easy, if you consider this story Drastic for two human beings, encountering prejudice from early age."I am still alive...not for long...I tend to Trespass in other People's Path.Enjoy.Starlite is an internationally acclaimed and award-winning author, singer, songwriter, rapper, artist, photographer, feminist, international traveler and X Factor contestant.  She is of Italian origins, lives in Europe and has traveled around the world to gather information for her books.  A woman of intrigue and mystery, she writers under several pen names.  http://www.bluefunkbroadcasting.com/root/twia/22725star.mp3   www.StarliteTheWriter.com   "Money Conspiracy": (Trump is a Bleacher) by Annarita Starlite  Amazon"Talking Funny Emoji": (We Hate Robinhood)" by Annarita Starlite Amazon"The Funny Side of Chaos: Featuring COVID-19" by Starlite Amazon"MY life is worth more than just a Will": (To all my Friends)" by Annarita Muraglia Amazon

The Katherine Massey Book Club @ The C.O.W.S. hosts the debut study session on the late Dr. Maya Angelou's A Song Flung Up To Heaven. This is the 6th autobiography in her 7 book memoir series. We read books 1, I Know Why The Caged Bird Sings, and 4, The Heart of a Woman. Dr. Angelou now reigns as the only author to have three books read on the Katherine Massey Book Club. We're reading this book to hear Dr. Angelou's depiction of the assassination of Minister Malcolm X. She was in San Francisco at the time of the murder. Importantly, this text, like The Heart of a Woman, features an egregious error that should have been corrected by editors or a mindful author. Dr. Angelou writes that the "1955" Montgomery bus boycott inspired those on the continent of Africa. Rosa Parks and Dr. Martin Luther King's famed counter-racist insurrgency against Alabama's Racist public transportation began in 1955 and lasted for a year. Parks alleged told the public her act of defiance was inspired by Emmett L. Till's lynching in August of 1955. Dr. Angelou should value this history enough to get these dates correct for posterity. #SNL50 #SoundtrackToACoupdÉtat #TheCOWS16Years INVEST in The COWS – http://paypal.me/TheCOWS Cash App: https://cash.app/$TheCOWS CALL IN NUMBER: 605.313.5164 CODE: 564943#

The Katherine Massey Book Club @ The C.O.W.S. hosts the 8th and final study session on the late Dr. Maya Angelou's The Heart of A Woman. The acclaimed author, poet, rape victim and Victim of White Supremacy, Dr. Angelou penned a 7-book autobiography series on her life and work. This is book number 4 in the series. Gus T. was inundated with the life and literary work of Dr. Angelou during his recent Golden State sojourn. And it took Gus seeing the documentary film Soundtrack to a Coup d'État three times to accurately write down the title The Heart of a Woman. The extraordinary film on the assassination of Patrice Lumumba is "receipt-heavy," and Andrée Blouin and Dr. Angelou's respective memoirs are just 2 of the many books in the project. Last week, Dr. Angelou describes following her husband Vus to Africa without even an address or hotel reservation once she travels across the planet with her son, Guy. She and Vus have repeated conflicts about money and are nearing a second eviction. Dr. Angelou tells us she fell out of "love" with her care mate at this point. We heard about a lot more parties, dancing and liquor drinking. Dr. Angelou took time to make a distinction between she and the black people born in the United States as opposed to black people born in Africa. She incorrectly tells readers that "black Americans" were the last large group of people enslaved on the planet. Brazil kept black people in formal slavery until 1888, and there are millions more black people in the Portuguese-speaking country than the US. #ImGoinGetMeSomeStuffTonight #SoundtrackToACoupdÉtat #TheCOWS16Years INVEST in The COWS – http://paypal.me/TheCOWS Cash App: https://cash.app/$TheCOWS CALL IN NUMBER: 605.313.5164 CODE: 564943#

The Katherine Massey Book Club @ The C.O.W.S. hosts the 7th study session on the late Dr. Maya Angelou's The Heart of A Woman. This is a rare "double dip" for the book club, as we read I Know Why The Caged Bird Sings in the summer of 2014 just after the transition of the famed author and Wake Forest scholar. Gus T. was inundated with the life and literary work of Dr. Angelou during his recent Golden State sojourn. And it took Gus seeing the documentary film Soundtrack to a Coup d'État three times to accurately write down the title Heart of a Woman. The extraordinary film on the assassination of Patrice Lumumba is "receipt-heavy," and Andrée Blouin and Dr. Angelou's respective memoirs are just 2 of the many books in the project. Last week, Dr. Angelou describes her involvement in the White French convict Jean Genet's play, The Blacks: A Clown Show. This celebrated show featured a cast of renown black thespians and was shown around the world. Dr. Angelou describes how mostly White audiences devoured the play, but continued their dedication to White Supremacy - even to the negro cast as soon as they stepped off the stage. The Suspected Racist director, Sidney Bernstein, shafted Max Roach and Dr. Angelou for their musical labor on the play. This is typical White Racism and the time-honored White tradition of robbing black artists. Bernstein was not ignorant about Racism. After speculating that her husband Vus might be cheating on her, our heroine contemplates poisoning her African care-mate. #AppleEvent #SoundtrackToACoupdÉtat #TheCOWS16Years INVEST in The COWS – http://paypal.me/TheCOWS Cash App: https://cash.app/$TheCOWS CALL IN NUMBER: 605.313.5164 CODE: 564943#

The Katherine Massey Book Club @ The C.O.W.S. hosts the 6th study session on the late Dr. Maya Angelou's The Heart of A Woman. This is a rare "double dip" for the book club, as we read I Know Why The Caged Bird Sings in the summer of 2014 just after the transition of the famed author and Wake Forest scholar. Gus T. was inundated with the life and literary work of Dr. Angelou during his recent Golden State sojourn. And it took Gus seeing the documentary film Soundtrack to a Coup d'État three times to accurately write down the title Heart of a Woman. The extraordinary film on the assassination of Patrice Lumumba is "receipt-heavy," and Andrée Blouin and Dr. Angelou's respective memoirs are just 2 of the many books in the project. Last week, the late poet an Victim of White Supremacy told us about how she, Abbey Lincoln and other black females of the Cultural Association for Women of African Heritage helped to coordinate a rally on the New York United Nations building. This was in response to the assassination of Patrice Lumumba. Dr. Angelou grabbed a random black "thug" to help escort her into the building. NPR's Terry Gross, a Racist Suspect, interviewed Dr. Angelou in 1981 and confessed that she feared this privileged black "thug" was going to assault and "rape" our heroine in the UN stairwell. Thankfully, everyone kept their pants zipped. In fact, after everything was finished, Dr. Angelou admitted feeling pretty lousy about risking the black fellas' life for her poorly conceived effort. #AppleEvent #SoundtrackToACoupdÉtat #TheCOWS16Years INVEST in The COWS – http://paypal.me/TheCOWS Cash App: https://cash.app/$TheCOWS CALL IN NUMBER: 605.313.5164 CODE: 564943#

The Katherine Massey Book Club @ The C.O.W.S. hosts the 5th study session on the late Dr. Maya Angelou's The Heart of A Woman. This is a rare "double dip" for the book club, as we read I Know Why The Caged Bird Sings in the summer of 2014 just after the transition of the famed author and Wake Forest scholar. Gus T. was inundated with the life and literary work of Dr. Angelou during his recent Golden State sojourn. And it took Gus seeing the documentary film Soundtrack to a Coup d'État three times to accurately write down the title Heart of a Woman. The extraordinary film on the assassination of Patrice Lumumba is "receipt-heavy," and Andrée Blouin and Dr. Angelou's respective memoirs are just two of the many books in the project. Last week, Dr. Angelou detailed her Harlem hobnobbing of the early 1960's and her activist work on behalf of the Southern Christian Leadership Conference. She was momentarily engaged to a black bale bondsman named Thomas. But she met a chubby African named Make and kicked worthless Thomas to the curb. She agreed to marry Make (at least her 3rd fiancé), and introduced him to her 15-year-old son Guy as her new care mate. Guy continues to insist that he's a "man." Dr. Angelou meets numerous Africans and shares with them the history of White Supremacy in the US, highlighting the counter-racist labor of Harriet Tubman and Sojourner Truth. #ImGoinGetMeSomeStuffTonight #TheCOWS16Years INVEST in The COWS – http://paypal.me/TheCOWS Cash App: https://cash.app/$TheCOWS CALL IN NUMBER: 605.313.5164 CODE: 564943#

The Katherine Massey Book Club @ The C.O.W.S. hosts the 4th study session on the late Dr. Maya Angelou's The Heart of A Woman. This is a rare "double dip" for the book club, as we read I Know Why The Caged Bird Sings in the summer of 2014 just after the transition of the famed author and Wake Forest scholar. Ironically, when The C.O.W.S. last read Dr. Angelou, she was frolicking as a young lady in San Francisco. Gus T. was inundated with the life and literary work of Dr. Angelou during his recent Golden State sojourn. And it took Gus seeing the documentary film Soundtrack to a Coup d'État three times to accurately write down the title Heart of a Woman. The extraordinary film on the assassination of Patrice Lumumba is "receipt-heavy," and Andrée Blouin and Dr. Angelou's respective memoirs are just two of the many books in the project. Last week, Dr. Angelou described meeting Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. in New York. Before departing Dr. King told Dr. Angelou that there are some "good White people." Dr. Angelou wondered if he said this because a White Man was listening. She later echoes Dr. King's conclusion, citing the Russians and Fidel Castro, who allegedly never self-identified as a White Man. While Dr. Angelou is globetrotting and drinking with White Men, her son is threatened by a gang of "worthless" black males. Her son Guy seems to insist with every other sentence that he: "Is a man." Dr. Angelou writes over and over about the impotence, unnecessariness, and failure of black manhood. Like her brother, who was in greater confinement during the early 1960s. #AppleEvent #SoundtrackToACoupdÉtat #TheCOWS16Years INVEST in The COWS – http://paypal.me/TheCOWS Cash App: https://cash.app/$TheCOWS CALL IN NUMBER: 605.313.5164 CODE: 564943#

In this episode, Kevin Stoller chats with Dr. Aspasia Angelou, a superintendent in Arizona. She highlights her role as a superintendent and the various initiatives she is leading in her school district. Dr. Angelou shares her background, growing up with Greek immigrant parents, and discusses how her early experiences shaped her drive to pursue education. She talks about her journey navigating educational challenges with limited family support. She also elaborates on the unique challenges of leading a unified school district without a high school and the legislative and logistical hurdles she faced in Arizona. She explains how she tackled these issues, including passing bonds for school funding and creating new high school facilities. Dr. Angelou discusses her approach to integrating innovative programs in her district, such as coding for young students, diverse extracurriculars like archery and agriculture, and designing a new high school from scratch with community input. Takeaways: There is always a way if you are determined enough. It's important to find a balance between honoring tradition and looking for innovation. It is critical for kids to understand technology, but it is also important that they have social experiences and play-based learning early.   About Dr. Angelou: Dr. Aspasia Angelou is the daughter of immigrant parents and a native of Seattle, Washington, where she graduated from the University of Washington. She moved to Texas as an educator and teacher trainer in advanced placement, and then to Oklahoma as a school administrator for 8 years. Dr. Angelou served the students, teachers, and community of Tulsa Public Schools as director of high school design in 2019, leading 4 schools through a redesign project. She is passionate about creating equitable learning environments, opportunities, and outcomes for all students. Her entire career has been committed to serving in Title I urban schools. She was named Oklahoma High School Principal of the Year in 2017 for the academic gains made by her students during her tenure in Oklahoma City. Despite challenges, they made great gains are recognized as a Model Professional Learning Community School by Solution Tree.   Connect with Dr. Angelou: LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/dr-aspasia-angelou-25667099/ X: https://x.com/aspasiaangelou   Nadaburg USD #81: Website: https://www.nadaburgsd.org/leadership       Episode 215 of the Better Learning Podcast Kevin Stoller is the host of the Better Learning Podcast and Co-Founder of Kay-Twelve, a national leader for educational furniture. Learn more about creating better learning environments at www.Kay-Twelve.com.     For more information on our partners: Association for Learning Environments (A4LE) - https://www.a4le.org/ Education Leaders' Organization - https://www.ed-leaders.org/ Second Class Foundation - https://secondclassfoundation.org/ EDmarket - https://www.edmarket.org/ Catapult @ Penn GSE - https://catapult.gse.upenn.edu/ Want to be a Guest Speaker? Request on our website

The Context of White Supremacy (C.O.W.S.) Radio Program hosts the weekly summit on Neutralizing Workplace Racism 01/10/24 Courtesy of Dr. Maya Angelou's autobiography The Heart of a Woman, we ask non-white listeners if they would admit a lack of important skills when being offered a new job or promotion? Dr. Angelou chose to honestly divulge her shortcomings when offered a job early in her career. A number of non-white listeners shared their own view on this matter, and they chose to remain quiet while learning as much as possible while in the new position. We also hear a number of reminders about why non-white people should avoid wearing headphones/earbuds while in the workplace. It's vital to be cognizant of what's being said and happening around you in your work area. We'll also review the sentencing of Major Michael Stockin who, according to FOX13 Seattle news, "Pleaded guilty in military court Tuesday to a total of 41 specifications." This including groping the genitals of numerous male soldiers. Stockin worked in locations in Maryland, Hawaii and Washington state, so it's possible that other White people knew of his transgressions yet transferred the White sexual miscreant as opposed to prosecuting him. #TheCOWS16Years INVEST in The COWS – http://paypal.me/TheCOWS Cash App: https://cash.app/$TheCOWS CALL IN NUMBER: 605.313.5164 CODE: 564943#

The Katherine Massey Book Club @ The C.O.W.S. hosts the 3rd study session on the late Dr. Maya Angelou's The Heart of A Woman. This is a rare "double dip" for the book club, as we read I Know Why The Caged Bird Sings in the summer of 2014 just after the transition of the famed author and Wake Forest scholar. Ironically, when The C.O.W.S. last read Dr. Angelou, she was frolicking as a young lady in San Francisco. Gus T. was inundated with the life and literary work of Dr. Angelou during his recent Golden State sojourn. And it took Gus seeing the documentary film Soundtrack to a Coup d'État three times to accurately write down the title Heart of a Woman. The extraordinary film on the assassination of Patrice Lumumba is "receipt-heavy," and Andrée Blouin and Dr. Angelou's respective memoirs are just two of the many books in the project. Last week, Dr. Angelou described hearing Dr. Martin Luther King Jr., Fred Shuttlesworth and Wyatt Tee Walker of the Southern Christian Leadership Conference speaking in New York about their counter-racist work in the south. Dr. Angelou was so touched by their words she began thinking of how she could act to support their efforts. She's strikingly candid about the widespread tendency of she and most other black people to be "uncle toms" and the necessity of telling her black son about "the power of White power." En route to offering her services to Bayard Rustin and the SCLC, Dr. Angelou encounters a phalanx of White Men who volunteer their White time and expertise to aid the niggra, and, probably, spy for COINTELPRO. #AppleEvent #SoundtrackToACoupdÉtat #TheCOWS16Years INVEST in The COWS – http://paypal.me/TheCOWS Cash App: https://cash.app/$TheCOWS CALL IN NUMBER: 605.313.5164 CODE: 564943#

In this series, we'll explore the inspiring legacy of Maya Angelou—an extraordinary writer, poet, and civil rights activist who dedicated her life to advocating for equality and justice. Her journey with faith reminds us of the power of love, courage, and forgiveness, showing us how to embrace the dignity of every person, no matter their background or beliefs. Through her words and example, Angelou calls us to live with resilience, generosity, and a spirit of unity—values that can transform both our hearts and our communities. ----------------- Our website FB Page Prayer Requests Give here

The Katherine Massey Book Club @ The C.O.W.S. hosts the second study session on the late Dr. Maya Angelou's The Heart of A Woman. This is a rare "double dip" for the book club, as we read I Know Why The Caged Bird Sings in the summer of 2014 just after the transition of the famed author and Wake Forest scholar. Ironically, when The C.O.W.S. last read Dr. Angelou, she was frolicking as a young lady in San Francisco. Gus T. was inundated with the life and literary work of Dr. Angelou during his recent Golden State sojourn. And it took Gus seeing the documentary film Soundtrack to a Coup d'État three times to accurately write down the title Heart of a Woman. The extraordinary film on the assassination of Patrice Lumumba is "receipt-heavy," and Andrée Blouin and Dr. Angelou's respective memoirs are just two of the many books in the project. Last week, we heard Dr. Angelou use a myriad of confusing metaphors to describe the System of White Supremacy in 1957. She minimized the abuse tennis champion Althea Gibson experienced and elided US Senator J. Strom Thurmond raping a black child in South Carolina while filibustering against niggras. The young Dr. Angelou fried chicken for and entertained Billie "Lady Day" Holiday and sat while the jazz legend sang "Strange Fruit" to her 9-year-old son, Guy. It was a traumatizing event for the little guy. Then the Race Soldier White teachers went to work on him. #SoundtrackToACoupdÉtat #TheCOWS16Years INVEST in The COWS – http://paypal.me/TheCOWS Cash App: https://cash.app/$TheCOWS CALL IN NUMBER: 605.313.5164 CODE: 564943#

The Katherine Massey Book Club @ The C.O.W.S. hosts the debut study session on the late Dr. Maya Angelou's The Heart of A Woman. This is a rare "double dip" for the book club, as we read I Know Why The Caged Bird Sings in the summer of 2014 just after the transition of the famed author and Wake Forest scholar. Ironically, when The C.O.W.S. last read Dr. Angelou, she was frolicking as a young lady in San Francisco. Gus T. was inundated with the life and literary work of Dr. Angelou during his recent Golden State sojourn. And it took Gus seeing the documentary film Soundtrack to a Coup d'État three times to accurately write down the title Heart of a Woman. The extraordinary film on the assassination of Patrice Lumumba is "receipt-heavy," and Andrée Blouin and Dr. Angelou's respective memoirs are just two of the many books in the project. It seems both of these black female authors born on different continents were greatly impacted by Lumumba's murder and were moved to record their thoughts, feelings and actions during this important moment in history. #AppleEvent #SoundtrackToACoupdÉtat #TheCOWS16Years INVEST in The COWS – http://paypal.me/TheCOWS Cash App: https://cash.app/$TheCOWS CALL IN NUMBER: 605.313.5164 CODE: 564943#

Send us a textResilience and flexibility are characteristics we all need to develop. I talk about how important these characteristics are on a mission, but also throughout life. __________________________Do you have questions or comments?Please contact me: rtosguthorpe@gmail.comWant more info about my books and talks?Go to my website: https://www.russelltosguthorpe.com/Want to order a book? Just go to Amazon and type in Russell T. Osguthorpe Want to access my YouTube channel:https://youtube.com/@russellt.osguthorpe497Want know more about the music on this podcast? We are blessed to have M. Diego Gonzalez as a regular contributor of songs he has arranged, performed, and recorded especially for this podcast. My wife and I became acquainted with Diego when he was serving a as missionary in the Puerto Rico San Juan Mission. We were so impressed with his talent, we asked if he would compose and perform songs for Filled With His Love. He thankfully agreed. Hope you enjoy his work!Want to boost your mood and make someone's day?Go to the App store on your iPhone, and download the app—Boonto.Want a good introduction to my book? Morgan Jones Pearson interviewed me on the All-In Podcast, and it was one of the top 10 episodes of 2022. Here's the link:https://www.ldsliving.com/2022-in-review-top-10-all-in-podcast-episod...

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We are starting a new series of podcast episodes and thinkpieces analysing the changes in the Lithuanian music scene. For the first conversation, we meet a producer whose work and philosophy have laid the foundation for many of them. Snorre Bergerud, the founder of YMIR Audio studio in Vilnius, has produced and/or recorded Garbanotas, Monique, jautì, Justinas Jarutis, Junior A, Angelou, Frank Fitts, No Real Pioneers, Crucial Features, Emilija Karosaitė, Džiugas Širvys, Freaks on Floor, Gabrielė Vilkickytė, Vaida Deksnytė and other local bands and artists. With the records made in the studio, they changed both the sound and attitude of modern Lithuanian music. In an in-depth conversation, which we chose for the first episode of our series The New Scene / Nauja scena, Snorre reflected on the origins of the studio, his philosophy of working with artists and the changes in the Lithuanian music environment in the last decade. As a Norwegian who made Vilnius his home and who wrote his master's thesis at The University of Liverpool on the Lithuanian music industry, Snorre is uniquely positioned for such commentary. And he sees inspiring changes. Full publication: https://nara.lt/en/articles-en/snorre-bergerud Recorded at YMIR Audio studio In Vilnius. Edited by Karolis Vyšniauskas and Adomas Zubė. Original music by Kata Bitowt. Additional help by Austėja Pūraitė. The New Scene / Nauja scena project is partially supported by Lithuania's Media Support fund.

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Ever wondered how literature and art can become pathways to self-discovery and healing? Journey with us as we sit down with the profoundly multi-talented M.K. Asante, whose work as an artist, filmmaker, musician, activist, and professor at Morgan State University offers invaluable insights into African American literature. Discover how Asante's book "Nephew: A Memoir in 4-part Harmony” reveals the therapeutic power of storytelling, and learn about the pivotal role editors like Christopher Jackson play in amplifying these vital voices. Through Asante's personal experiences, we uncover the emotional release that accompanies completing a deeply meaningful project.Imagine receiving life-changing writing advice from the legendary Dr. Maya Angelou. In a heartfelt recounting, Asante shares his transformative encounter with Dr. Angelou at Wake Forest University. Her wisdom on truth-telling, embracing our shared humanity, and connecting with the spirits of our ancestors provided the strength and inspiration needed to finish his first memoir, "Buck." These lessons resonate universally, bridging the gap between personal and communal experiences, and highlighting the profound impact of emotional authenticity in literature.The episode also delves into the rich tapestry of African American culture through the lens of family, art, and resilience. From the metaphor of the quilt symbolizing resourcefulness and beauty to the complexities of family dynamics and the unspoken legacies that shape our lives, we explore the enduring legacy of black creativity. Through intimate narratives involving family members and the influential power of music and lyrics, we celebrate the strength, resourcefulness, and beauty embedded in African American culture and its lasting influence on literature and art.MakerSPACE is here to meet the needs of today's entrepreneurs, creatives, and work-from-home professionals. We do this through private offices, coworking spaces, and a host of other resources, including conference rooms, a photo studio, podcast studios; a creative workshop, and a retail showroom—that is perfect for any e-commerce brand. Mention code MAHOGANY for all current specials, as we have two locations to best serve you.Support the Show.Thanks for listening! Show support by reviewing our podcast and sharing it with a friend. You can also follow us on Instagram, @MahoganyBooks, for information about our next author event and attend live.

Tšhegofatšo Ndabane is a writer, podcast publicist for mental health practitioners, and Master of Arts in clinical psychology candidate at the University of Cape Town. Her words have been featured in various international publications including Refinery29, Well + Good, Life & Thyme, and APL Media, amongst others. Deneshia and Joi hopped on a zoom call to record this one! Tšhegofatšo shares her view of resiliency and belonging from a Black South African woman perspective. This conversation is ultimately led by the words of Dr. Maya Angelou who defines Belonging for herself. Dr. Angelou says in A Bill Moyers interview: You are truly free when you realize you belong nowhere, no place, but everywhere. Most importantly I belong to myself. I'm very concerned about Maya. This episode is an exploration of belonging to safe people, places and things. Tšhegofatšo, Deneshia and Joi share some research on belonging and personal loved experiences. What's your definition of belonging? Where do you belong? How do you cultivate this? Share this episode with a friend! Share your thoughts with us in the comments!

This person died in 2014 at age 86. She was a Tony-nominated stage actress, and a calypso dancer for a period of time.. In 2011 she was awarded the Presidential Medal of Freedom. She was a college professor and a ubiquitous presence on the lecture circuit, and also made several appearances on Sesame Street. Throughout her writing, she explored the concepts of personal identity and resilience through the multifaceted lens of race, sex, family, community and the collective past. In 1969 she published her landmark book, “I Know Why the Caged Bird Sings”. Today's dead celebrity is Maya Angelou.  This episode originally published February 8, 2023. Listen to the Sound Judgment podcast in which Michael and Amit discuss this Maya Angelou episode  Famous & Gravy is created and co-hosted by Amit Kapoor and Michael Osborne. This episode was produced by Jacob Weiss. For updates on the show, please sign up for our newsletter at famousandgravy.com. Also, enjoy our mobile quiz game at deadoraliveapp.com If you enjoyed this episode, you may also like Episode 71 “Defiant One” (Sidney Poitier) and Episode 61 “Dame Detective” (Angela Lansburyi). Links: Transcript of this episode New York Times Obituary for Maya Angelou ‘Sound Judgment' podcast discussing this episode Maya Angelou's poem at the 1993 inauguration Tracy Morgan's impersonation of Angelou's Hallmark Cards on SNL Maya Angelou for Froot Loops on SNL performed by David Alan Grier Maya Angelou's Life in Photos in the New Yorker “And I Still Rise” Documentary on Maya Angelou Famous & Gravy official website Famous & Gravy on Facebook, LinkedIn, Twitter Dead or Alive Quiz Game HPB.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This person died in 2014 at age 86. She was a Tony-nominated stage actress, and a calypso dancer for a period of time.. In 2011 she was awarded the Presidential Medal of Freedom. She was a college professor and a ubiquitous presence on the lecture circuit, and also made several appearances on Sesame Street. Throughout her writing, she explored the concepts of personal identity and resilience through the multifaceted lens of race, sex, family, community and the collective past. In 1969 she published her landmark book, “I Know Why the Caged Bird Sings”. Today's dead celebrity is Maya Angelou.  This episode originally published February 8, 2023. Listen to the Sound Judgment podcast in which Michael and Amit discuss this Maya Angelou episode  Famous & Gravy is created and co-hosted by Amit Kapoor and Michael Osborne. This episode was produced by Jacob Weiss. For updates on the show, please sign up for our newsletter at famousandgravy.com. Also, enjoy our mobile quiz game at deadoraliveapp.com If you enjoyed this episode, you may also like Episode 71 “Defiant One” (Sidney Poitier) and Episode 61 “Dame Detective” (Angela Lansburyi). Links: Transcript of this episode New York Times Obituary for Maya Angelou ‘Sound Judgment' podcast discussing this episode Maya Angelou's poem at the 1993 inauguration Tracy Morgan's impersonation of Angelou's Hallmark Cards on SNL Maya Angelou for Froot Loops on SNL performed by David Alan Grier Maya Angelou's Life in Photos in the New Yorker “And I Still Rise” Documentary on Maya Angelou Famous & Gravy official website Famous & Gravy on Facebook, LinkedIn, Twitter Dead or Alive Quiz Game HPB.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Welcome to The Nonlinear Library, where we use Text-to-Speech software to convert the best writing from the Rationalist and EA communities into audio. This is: The Intentional Stance, LLMs Edition, published by Eleni Angelou on May 1, 2024 on LessWrong. In memoriam of Daniel C. Dennett. tl;dr: I sketch out what it means to apply Dennett's Intentional Stance to LLMs. I argue that the intentional vocabulary is already ubiquitous in experimentation with these systems therefore what is missing is the theoretical framework to justify this usage. I aim to make up for that and explain why the intentional stance is the best available explanatory tool for LLM behavior. Choosing Between Stances Why choose the intentional stance? It seems natural to employ or ascribe cognitive states to AI models starting from the field's terminology, most prominently by calling it "machine learning" (Hagendorff 2023). This is very much unlike how other computer programs are treated. When programmers write software, they typically understand it in terms of what they designed it to execute (design stance) or simply make sense of it considering its physical properties, such as the materials it was made of or the various electrical signals processing in its circuitry (physical stance). As I note, it is not that we cannot use Dennett's other two stances (Dennett 1989) to talk about these systems. It is rather that neither of them constitutes the best explanatory framework for interacting with LLMs. To illustrate this, consider the reverse example. It is possible to apply the intentional stance to a hammer although this does not generate any new information or optimally explain the behavior of the tool. What seems to be apt for making sense of how hammers operate instead is the design stance. This is just as applicable to other computer programs-tools. To use a typical program, there is no need to posit intentional states. Unlike LLMs, users do not engage in human-like conversation with the software. More precisely, the reason why neither the design nor the physical stance is sufficient to explain and predict the behavior of LLMs is because state-of-the-art LLM outputs are in practice indistinguishable from those of human agents (Y. Zhou et al. 2022). It is possible to think about LLMs as trained systems or as consisting of graphic cards and neural network layers, but these hardly make any difference when one attempts to prompt them and make them helpful for conversation and problem-solving. What is more, machine learning systems like LLMs are not programmed to execute a task but are rather trained to find the policy that will execute the task. In other words, developers are not directly coding the information required to solve the problem they are using the AI for: they train the system to find the solution on its own. This requires for the model to possess all the necessary concepts. In that sense, dealing with LLMs is more akin to studying a biological organism that is under development or perhaps raising a child, and less like building a tool the use of which is well-understood prior to the system's interaction with its environment. The LLM can learn from feedback and "change its mind" about the optimal policy to go about its task which is not the case for the standard piece of software. Moreover, LLMs seem to possess concepts. Consequently, there is a distinction to be drawn between tool-like and agent-like programs. Judging on a behavioral basis, LLMs fall into the second category. This conclusion renders the intentional stance (Dennett 1989) practically indispensable for the evaluation of LLMs on a behavioral basis. Folk Psychology for LLMs What kind of folk psychology should we apply to LLMs? Do they have beliefs, desires, and goals? LLMs acquire "beliefs" from their training distribution, since they do not memorize or copy any text from it when outputting their results - at least no more than human writers and speakers do. They must, as a result, ...

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Explore the empowering resilience of Maya Angelou's iconic poem "Still I Rise" in this episode. Unveiling the layers of strength and defiance, we delve into Angelou's profound verses that celebrate overcoming adversity. Join us as we navigate the rich tapestry of words that continue to inspire and resonate with audiences worldwide.

Dr. Maya Angelou is a remarkable Renaissance woman who is hailed as one of the greatest voices of contemporary literature. As a poet, educator, historian, best-selling author, actress, playwright, civil-rights activist, producer, and director, she continues to travel the world, spreading her legendary wisdom. Within the rhythm of her poetry and elegance of her prose lies Dr. Angelou's unique power to help readers of every orientation span the lines of culture and race. Today she talks about her CD titled “Church: Songs of Soul and Inspiration” in which music is set to her poetry and includes many best-selling musicians and singers such as Patti Labelle, Dionne Warwick, Stephanie Mills, En Vogue, Chaka Khan, The Fire Choir, and many more. This interview was originally taped in June 2003. Info:  MayaAngelou.com

Are you ready to dive into the world of poetry and inspiration with your little ones? Join Sophia Karpman on a journey through the life and legacy of Maya Angelou in our special Black History Month episode designed just for kids!

How do we know when to give people a second chance? Join seasoned educators Steve and Dan Fouts as they delve into the profound wisdom of Maya Angelou's quote, "When somebody shows you who they are, believe them the first time." In this thought-provoking discussion, they explore the application of Angelou's thoughts on personal relationships and the difficult decisions teachers must make in the classroom. Steve recounts the captivating tale of Jarvis, the very inspiration that sparked the creation of Teach Different! Teach Different serves educational institutions, families, corporate entities, and mental health communities. If you think the TD method could be effective in your setting, we'd love to hear from you! support@teachdifferent.com Image Source: Flickr | Website | York College ISLG

In just 86 years Maya Angelou lived dozens of lives. Perhaps best known for her seminal autobiography I Know Why The Caged Bird Sings, Maya Angelou is one of the most celebrated literary minds in history, whose poetry and prose has touched generations of readers. But before Caged Bird, Angelou danced and sang on and off Broadway, earned the moniker “Miss Calypso” in the 1950s, called dozens of American cities and African nations home, and even became the first Black woman to work as a cable car conductor in San Francisco. On this episode of Making, host Brandon Pope sits down with Rita Coburn, co-director of the Peabody-Award-winning PBS documentary Maya Angelou: And Still I Rise; Randal Jelks, professor of African and African American studies and American studies at the University of Kansas; and Dr. Maxine Mimms, the founder of the Tacoma Campus of Evergreen State College and a longtime friend of Angelou. “Her main word was courage,” Dr. Mimms said, “The courage to love, the courage to walk, the courage to move.” Making tells the story of a different, iconic figure every episode. Subscribe now.

Original Air Date: January 24, 2018Oprah's heart-to-heart conversation with the late Dr. Maya Angelou continues. Dr. Angelou shares some of her greatest life lessons on aging brilliantly and living with gratitude. She is moved to tears as she recalls the revelation that changed her life forever and reveals the best piece of advice she ever received. Want more podcasts from OWN? Visit https://bit.ly/OWNPodsYou can also watch Oprah's Super Soul, The Oprah Winfrey Show and more of your favorite OWN shows on your TV! Visit https://bit.ly/find_OWN  

Original Air Date: January 22, 2018In the first of a special two-part podcast, Oprah has a conversation with her beloved mentor, the late poet, author, icon, and activist Dr. Maya Angelou. She's also the woman Oprah called her mother, sister, and friend for more than 30 years. Oprah says, "She was there for me always, guiding me through some of the most important years of my life. The world knows her as a poet, but at the heart of her, she was a teacher." Dr. Angelou discusses her last book, "Mom & Me & Mom," delving into one of the deepest personal stories of her life: her relationship with her mother. Dr. Angelou shares intimate memories of her childhood, including the nine words her nurturing yet fiery mother said to her that changed her life forever, challenging her to find strength in the face of adversity. Want more podcasts from OWN? Visit https://bit.ly/OWNPodsYou can also watch Oprah's Super Soul, The Oprah Winfrey Show and more of your favorite OWN shows on your TV! Visit https://bit.ly/find_OWN  

In honor of Martin Luther King Jr. Day, we treat you to a re-broadcast of this episode from 2017. Maya Angelou and Martin Luther King Jr. were close friends, years before Angelou became known throughout the world for her memoir “I Know Why the Caged Bird Sings." In this, the second our two Maya Angelou podcasts, she offers her personal reflections of Dr. King as a poet and a man with great humility and a sense of humor. She talks about the state of the African-American community decades later, and the importance of using language to uplift (describing an encounter she had with Tupac Shakur to make her point). And in her powerful, unique voice, she reminds us of the eternal relevance of Dr. King's wisdom.

This week on #TheFriendZone, it's a shoot the shit episode. No Hot Button. No segments. Just whatever wants to come out. Brace yourself. Black Business of the Week - https://www.eatnewbreed.com Thank you to our Sponsors: Target - Whatever the reason, it's always the season to stock up on Black-owned brands at Target. Black Beyond Measure. Illuminating Intersectionality - Check out ‘Illuminating Intersectionality' hosted by Fran of Hey Fran Hey, Chef Jade of All Jades and Dr. Tykeia Robinson. Powered by Target https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n-1jSUx4duk&t=44s ZocDoc - Go to https://www.zocdoc.com/FRIENDZONE and download the Zocdocapp for FREE. Then start your search for a top-rated doctor today. Many available within 24 hours. PushBlack - Know Your History. Check out Black History Year on Spotify IxoraBB - Visit https://ixorabb.com now to check out their incredible line of products. And as a listener of this podcast, you can save 20% on your first order by using code FriendZone20. Follow us online:

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Perhaps best known for her seminal autobiography I Know Why The Caged Bird Sings, Maya Angelou is one of the most celebrated literary minds in history, whose poetry and prose has touched generations of readers. But before Caged Bird, Angelou danced and sang on and off Broadway, earned the moniker “Miss Calypso” in the 1950s, called dozens of American cities and African nations home, and even became the first Black woman to work as a cable car conductor in San Francisco. On this episode of Making, host Brandon Pope leads a conversation on Maya Angelou's early days and what made her who she was. Joining him is Rita Coburn, co-director of the Peabody-Award-winning PBS documentary Maya Angelou: And Still I Rise; Randal Jelks, professor of African and African American studies and American studies at the University of Kansas; and a legend in her own right, Dr. Maxine Mimms, the founder of the Tacoma Campus of Evergreen State College and a longtime friend of Angelou.