Podcasts about Wake Forest University

The term "classical music" includes a wide variety of music and artists. This hour we take a look at what that category really means. We celebrate the form and help you figure out how to start listening to the genre. Plus, how video game music is bringing new listeners to classical music and live orchestras. GUESTS: Matthew Aucoin: American composer, conductor, writer, pianist, and a 2018 MacArthur Fellow. He is author of “The Impossible Art: Adventures in Opera” and is co-founder of the American Modern Opera Company. His opera “Euridyce” was produced by the Metropolitan Opera in 2021, making him the youngest composer in nearly a century to have an opera produced by The Met Arianna Warsaw-Fan Rauch: Author of “Declassified: A Low-Key Guide to the High-Strung World of Classical Music”. She is also a violinist who has performed in venues around the world Carolyn Kuan: Music Director of the Hartford Symphony Orchestra. In 2025, she led the acclaimed world premiere of Huang Ruo’s "The Monkey King" at San Francisco Opera. Her recording of Huang Ruo’s "An American Soldier" with the American Composers Orchestra received a 2026 Grammy nomination J. Aaron Hardwick: An internationally active professional conductor, professor of music at Wake Forest University, and Director of the Wake Forest University Symphony Orchestra, recognized for his work in classical and contemporary repertoire and innovative orchestral programming, including video game music Join the conversation on Facebook and Twitter. The Colin McEnroe Show is available as a podcast on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Amazon Music, TuneIn, Listen Notes, or wherever you get your podcasts. Subscribe and never miss an episode! Subscribe to The Noseletter, an email compendium of merriment, secrets, and ancient wisdom brought to you by The Colin McEnroe Show. Colin McEnroe contributed to this show, which originally aired February 5, 2026.Support the show: http://www.wnpr.org/donateSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Na série de conversas descontraídas com cientistas, chegou a vez da Professora, Biomédica, Mestra e Doutora em Psicobiologia, com pós-doutorado no NIH dos EUA, Karina Possa Abrahão. Só vem! >> OUÇA (95min 03s) * Naruhodo! é o podcast pra quem tem fome de aprender. Ciência, senso comum, curiosidades, desafios e muito mais. Com o leigo curioso, Ken Fujioka, e o cientista PhD, Altay de Souza. Edição: Reginaldo Cursino. http://naruhodo.b9.com.br * Karina Possa Abrahão é formada em Biomedicina pela Universidade Federal de São Paulo (2005), possui mestrado (2008) e doutorado (2012) em Psicobiologia também UNIFESP. Entre 2010 e 2011, fez um doutorado sanduíche na Wake Forest University, EUA. Fez seu primeiro pós-doutoramento no Departamento de Farmacologia da USP e depois passou mais 5 anos como Pós-doutora no NIH (2013-2018), EUA. Essa formação propiciou uma vasta experiência no estudo de comportamentos impulsivos, formação de hábito e tomada de decisão, além do uso de animais transgênicos e técnicas de eletrofisiologia e fotometria para a compreenssão da função dos Núcleos da Base e dos efeitos neurobiológicos do álcool. Tem vasta experiência da área de Psicobiologia e Neurofisiologia. Atualmente é Professora Adjunta do Departamento de Fisiologia da UNIFESP e orienta pelo programa de pós-graduação em Psicobiologia da mesma instituição. Tem interesse na área de neurobiologia da tomada de decisão, sobretudo as escolhas arriscadas, e como o álcool pode afetar esses comportamentos. Utiliza técnicas de farmacologia, imunofluorescência, eletrofisiologia celular, optogenética, quimiogenética, fotometria e comportamento para desvendar a cascata de eventos neurais associadas às escolhas arriscadas. Sempre buscou integrar o desenvolvimento científico à comunicação científica, tendo fundado diferentes canais de divulgação como o Prisma Científico, o Eureka Brasil e, mais atualmente, o NeuroAthens. Site do laboratório: abrahaolab.com Bem recentemente, começou um trabalho dentro da FAPESP (FUndação de Amparo a Pesquisa do Estado de São Paulo), como assessora científica interna. Lattes: http://lattes.cnpq.br/1245502652994136 * APOIE O NARUHODO! O Altay e eu temos duas mensagens pra você. A primeira é: muito, muito obrigado pela sua audiência. Sem ela, o Naruhodo sequer teria sentido de existir. Você nos ajuda demais não só quando ouve, mas também quando espalha episódios para familiares, amigos - e, por que não?, inimigos. A segunda mensagem é: existe uma outra forma de apoiar o Naruhodo, a ciência e o pensamento científico - apoiando financeiramente o nosso projeto de podcast semanal independente, que só descansa no recesso do fim de ano. Manter o Naruhodo tem custos e despesas: servidores, domínio, pesquisa, produção, edição, atendimento, tempo... Enfim, muitas coisas para cobrir - e, algumas delas, em dólar. A gente sabe que nem todo mundo pode apoiar financeiramente. E tá tudo bem. Tente mandar um episódio para alguém que você conhece e acha que vai gostar. A gente sabe que alguns podem, mas não mensalmente. E tá tudo bem também. Você pode apoiar quando puder e cancelar quando quiser.  O apoio mínimo é de 15 reais e pode ser feito pela plataforma ORELO ou pela plataforma APOIA-SE. Para quem está fora do Brasil, temos até a plataforma PATREON. É isso, gente. Estamos enfrentando um momento importante e você pode ajudar a combater o negacionismo e manter a chama da ciência acesa. Então, fica aqui o nosso convite: apóie o Naruhodo como puder. bit.ly/naruhodo-no-orelo

Have public sector organizations reached the point where AI is no longer an experiment but an operational necessity? In this episode, I welcome Carmen Taglienti, CTO of Insight Public Sector, to discuss why AI is moving beyond chatbots and pilots to become part of the everyday workflows that support government services. As budgets tighten and expectations continue to rise, public sector teams are under pressure to deliver more for citizens without increasing resources. Carmen explains why this moment represents a turning point and how AI is helping agencies rethink the way they operate. We talk about the rise of agentic AI and why the next generation of AI is focused on completing real work rather than simply answering questions. Carmen shares how governments are beginning to automate permitting, citizen inquiries, service requests, and internal processes while keeping people involved where oversight and accountability remain essential. Our conversation also looks at why trust remains one of the biggest barriers to AI adoption. Whether it is employees using AI in the workplace or citizens interacting with AI-powered public services, confidence must be earned through transparency, governance, and consistent outcomes. Carmen explains why operational security, AI governance, and established frameworks are becoming as important as the technology itself. Drawing on her experience teaching AI and cybersecurity at Northeastern University and leading AI strategy programs at Wake Forest University, Carmen also shares how higher education is preparing students for a workplace where AI will become part of almost every role. Rather than avoiding these tools, she argues that the next generation needs practical experience using them responsibly to solve real business problems. We also discuss why smaller, specialized AI deployments may prove more effective than large agency-wide platforms, how procurement teams are adapting to a rapidly changing AI market, and what successful AI adoption actually looks like inside public sector organizations. If you've been wondering what AI adoption really looks like beyond the headlines, this conversation offers practical insight into how governments are balancing innovation, compliance, security, and citizen trust while building services for the future. How do you see AI changing the relationship between governments and the citizens they serve over the next few years? I'd love to hear your thoughts.

Today I am joined by Molly Hardy! Molly is a Dallas-based Mahjong Instructor who loves sharing her knowledge about the game to others. When Molly was first introduced to the game, she immediately loved the strategy aspect. She uses her education degrees to break down this complicated game in a way that all can learn!Molly graduated with her BA in Education from Wake Forest University and her Masters in Education from Southern Methodist University. She went on to teach in the elementary classroom for 6 years before deciding to stay at home when her first baby was born. Molly currently lives in Dallas with her husband and 3 children. In this episode Molly and I talk about how she learned mahjong, the basics of mahjong, how to get started, and so much more! Molly's InstagramMolly's WebsiteDoodle Rock Rescue

Welcome back to another edition of the Hangin' with the AD Podcast.Today's guest is one of the most innovative and forward-thinking leaders in college athletics. Dan Hauser serves as the Vice President and Director of Athletics at High Point University in High Point, North Carolina, a position he has held since 2014.Before arriving at High Point, Dan built a strong foundation in athletic administration and marketing, serving in leadership roles at Ohio University, Wake Forest University, and the University of New Mexico. Over the last decade, he has helped transform High Point Athletics into one of the nation's most successful and recognizable mid-major programs.Under his leadership, High Point has consistently competed at a championship level across multiple sports, earned national recognition in the Learfield Directors' Cup standings, and become known for delivering one of the most unique and impactful student-athlete experiences in higher education.But Dan's influence extends far beyond wins and losses. He is a passionate believer in leadership, personal growth, dreaming big, and creating environments where people can achieve more than they ever thought possible.In this conversation, we'll discuss High Point's rise to national prominence, the power of reading and lifelong learning, leadership lessons from High Point's President's own unique leadership journey, the importance of presence and culture, navigating the rapidly changing landscape of college athletics, and how leaders can turn ambitious visions into reality.Whether you're an athletic director, coach, educator, or simply someone who wants to lead at a higher level, you're going to take something valuable away from this conversation.So sit back, enjoy, and let's get to know the man behind one of the most remarkable success stories in college athletics—Dan Hauser.

Research shows that honesty is the single most important characteristic a person can possess when it comes to liking them, respecting them, and understanding them. But honesty is eroding in many areas of society today, as we are confronted with honesty crises in politics, education, relationships, religion, celebrity culture, and technology. Over the past 50 years, no single philosopher has offered a comprehensive exploration of honesty—how we define it, how it diverges in private and public spaces, and how it depends on shared perceptions of reality. Dr. Christian Miller addresses this gap, while showing how modern life increasingly rewards dishonesty, with profound consequences for our relationships, institutions and culture—a phenomenon he names The Honesty Crisis (Oxford UP, 2026). From cases such as sermon plagiarism to AI-assisted cheating to the rise of fake news, Dr. Miller explores how dishonesty has become easier, more pervasive and even normalized in our society. Yet The Honesty Crisis does more than diagnose the problem: it proposes concrete, practical steps to preserve honesty where it matters most. Guest: Dr. Christian B. Miller is the A. C. Reid Professor of Philosophy at Wake Forest University. The author of numerous articles and books, he also directed The Honesty Project, one of the largest research initiatives ever undertaken on honesty. Host: Dr. Christina Gessler is an academic writing coach and editor. She holds a Ph.D. in history which she uses to explore which stories we tell and what happens to those we never tell. She is the creator, producer and show host of the Academic Life podcast. Playlist for listeners: Understanding Disinformation When Your Professor Asks You To Cheat The Last Human Job Who Gets Believed The AI Mirror: How to Reclaim Our Humanity in an Age of Machine Thinking What Do You Want Out of Life The Museum of Failure The Well-Gardened Mind A Meaningful Life The Good- Enough Life Tell Me What You Want Welcome to Academic Life, the podcast for your academic journey—and beyond! You help support the show by downloading and sharing episodes. Join us again to learn from more experts inside and outside the academy, and around the world. Missed any of the 300+ Academic Life episodes? Find them here. And thank you for listening! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices Support our show by becoming a premium member! https://newbooksnetwork.supportingcast.fm/new-books-network

Research shows that honesty is the single most important characteristic a person can possess when it comes to liking them, respecting them, and understanding them. But honesty is eroding in many areas of society today, as we are confronted with honesty crises in politics, education, relationships, religion, celebrity culture, and technology. Over the past 50 years, no single philosopher has offered a comprehensive exploration of honesty—how we define it, how it diverges in private and public spaces, and how it depends on shared perceptions of reality. Dr. Christian Miller addresses this gap, while showing how modern life increasingly rewards dishonesty, with profound consequences for our relationships, institutions and culture—a phenomenon he names The Honesty Crisis (Oxford UP, 2026). From cases such as sermon plagiarism to AI-assisted cheating to the rise of fake news, Dr. Miller explores how dishonesty has become easier, more pervasive and even normalized in our society. Yet The Honesty Crisis does more than diagnose the problem: it proposes concrete, practical steps to preserve honesty where it matters most. Guest: Dr. Christian B. Miller is the A. C. Reid Professor of Philosophy at Wake Forest University. The author of numerous articles and books, he also directed The Honesty Project, one of the largest research initiatives ever undertaken on honesty. Host: Dr. Christina Gessler is an academic writing coach and editor. She holds a Ph.D. in history which she uses to explore which stories we tell and what happens to those we never tell. She is the creator, producer and show host of the Academic Life podcast. Playlist for listeners: Understanding Disinformation When Your Professor Asks You To Cheat The Last Human Job Who Gets Believed The AI Mirror: How to Reclaim Our Humanity in an Age of Machine Thinking What Do You Want Out of Life The Museum of Failure The Well-Gardened Mind A Meaningful Life The Good- Enough Life Tell Me What You Want Welcome to Academic Life, the podcast for your academic journey—and beyond! You help support the show by downloading and sharing episodes. Join us again to learn from more experts inside and outside the academy, and around the world. Missed any of the 300+ Academic Life episodes? Find them here. And thank you for listening! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices Support our show by becoming a premium member! https://newbooksnetwork.supportingcast.fm/critical-theory

Research shows that honesty is the single most important characteristic a person can possess when it comes to liking them, respecting them, and understanding them. But honesty is eroding in many areas of society today, as we are confronted with honesty crises in politics, education, relationships, religion, celebrity culture, and technology. Over the past 50 years, no single philosopher has offered a comprehensive exploration of honesty—how we define it, how it diverges in private and public spaces, and how it depends on shared perceptions of reality. Dr. Christian Miller addresses this gap, while showing how modern life increasingly rewards dishonesty, with profound consequences for our relationships, institutions and culture—a phenomenon he names The Honesty Crisis (Oxford UP, 2026). From cases such as sermon plagiarism to AI-assisted cheating to the rise of fake news, Dr. Miller explores how dishonesty has become easier, more pervasive and even normalized in our society. Yet The Honesty Crisis does more than diagnose the problem: it proposes concrete, practical steps to preserve honesty where it matters most. Guest: Dr. Christian B. Miller is the A. C. Reid Professor of Philosophy at Wake Forest University. The author of numerous articles and books, he also directed The Honesty Project, one of the largest research initiatives ever undertaken on honesty. Host: Dr. Christina Gessler is an academic writing coach and editor. She holds a Ph.D. in history which she uses to explore which stories we tell and what happens to those we never tell. She is the creator, producer and show host of the Academic Life podcast. Playlist for listeners: Understanding Disinformation When Your Professor Asks You To Cheat The Last Human Job Who Gets Believed The AI Mirror: How to Reclaim Our Humanity in an Age of Machine Thinking What Do You Want Out of Life The Museum of Failure The Well-Gardened Mind A Meaningful Life The Good- Enough Life Tell Me What You Want Welcome to Academic Life, the podcast for your academic journey—and beyond! You help support the show by downloading and sharing episodes. Join us again to learn from more experts inside and outside the academy, and around the world. Missed any of the 300+ Academic Life episodes? Find them here. And thank you for listening! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices Support our show by becoming a premium member! https://newbooksnetwork.supportingcast.fm/academic-life

Research shows that honesty is the single most important characteristic a person can possess when it comes to liking them, respecting them, and understanding them. But honesty is eroding in many areas of society today, as we are confronted with honesty crises in politics, education, relationships, religion, celebrity culture, and technology. Over the past 50 years, no single philosopher has offered a comprehensive exploration of honesty—how we define it, how it diverges in private and public spaces, and how it depends on shared perceptions of reality. Dr. Christian Miller addresses this gap, while showing how modern life increasingly rewards dishonesty, with profound consequences for our relationships, institutions and culture—a phenomenon he names The Honesty Crisis (Oxford UP, 2026). From cases such as sermon plagiarism to AI-assisted cheating to the rise of fake news, Dr. Miller explores how dishonesty has become easier, more pervasive and even normalized in our society. Yet The Honesty Crisis does more than diagnose the problem: it proposes concrete, practical steps to preserve honesty where it matters most. Guest: Dr. Christian B. Miller is the A. C. Reid Professor of Philosophy at Wake Forest University. The author of numerous articles and books, he also directed The Honesty Project, one of the largest research initiatives ever undertaken on honesty. Host: Dr. Christina Gessler is an academic writing coach and editor. She holds a Ph.D. in history which she uses to explore which stories we tell and what happens to those we never tell. She is the creator, producer and show host of the Academic Life podcast. Playlist for listeners: Understanding Disinformation When Your Professor Asks You To Cheat The Last Human Job Who Gets Believed The AI Mirror: How to Reclaim Our Humanity in an Age of Machine Thinking What Do You Want Out of Life The Museum of Failure The Well-Gardened Mind A Meaningful Life The Good- Enough Life Tell Me What You Want Welcome to Academic Life, the podcast for your academic journey—and beyond! You help support the show by downloading and sharing episodes. Join us again to learn from more experts inside and outside the academy, and around the world. Missed any of the 300+ Academic Life episodes? Find them here. And thank you for listening! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices Support our show by becoming a premium member! https://newbooksnetwork.supportingcast.fm/education

Research shows that honesty is the single most important characteristic a person can possess when it comes to liking them, respecting them, and understanding them. But honesty is eroding in many areas of society today, as we are confronted with honesty crises in politics, education, relationships, religion, celebrity culture, and technology. Over the past 50 years, no single philosopher has offered a comprehensive exploration of honesty—how we define it, how it diverges in private and public spaces, and how it depends on shared perceptions of reality. Dr. Christian Miller addresses this gap, while showing how modern life increasingly rewards dishonesty, with profound consequences for our relationships, institutions and culture—a phenomenon he names The Honesty Crisis (Oxford UP, 2026). From cases such as sermon plagiarism to AI-assisted cheating to the rise of fake news, Dr. Miller explores how dishonesty has become easier, more pervasive and even normalized in our society. Yet The Honesty Crisis does more than diagnose the problem: it proposes concrete, practical steps to preserve honesty where it matters most. Guest: Dr. Christian B. Miller is the A. C. Reid Professor of Philosophy at Wake Forest University. The author of numerous articles and books, he also directed The Honesty Project, one of the largest research initiatives ever undertaken on honesty. Host: Dr. Christina Gessler is an academic writing coach and editor. She holds a Ph.D. in history which she uses to explore which stories we tell and what happens to those we never tell. She is the creator, producer and show host of the Academic Life podcast. Playlist for listeners: Understanding Disinformation When Your Professor Asks You To Cheat The Last Human Job Who Gets Believed The AI Mirror: How to Reclaim Our Humanity in an Age of Machine Thinking What Do You Want Out of Life The Museum of Failure The Well-Gardened Mind A Meaningful Life The Good- Enough Life Tell Me What You Want Welcome to Academic Life, the podcast for your academic journey—and beyond! You help support the show by downloading and sharing episodes. Join us again to learn from more experts inside and outside the academy, and around the world. Missed any of the 300+ Academic Life episodes? Find them here. And thank you for listening! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices Support our show by becoming a premium member! https://newbooksnetwork.supportingcast.fm/communications

Research shows that honesty is the single most important characteristic a person can possess when it comes to liking them, respecting them, and understanding them. But honesty is eroding in many areas of society today, as we are confronted with honesty crises in politics, education, relationships, religion, celebrity culture, and technology. Over the past 50 years, no single philosopher has offered a comprehensive exploration of honesty—how we define it, how it diverges in private and public spaces, and how it depends on shared perceptions of reality. Dr. Christian Miller addresses this gap, while showing how modern life increasingly rewards dishonesty, with profound consequences for our relationships, institutions and culture—a phenomenon he names The Honesty Crisis (Oxford UP, 2026). From cases such as sermon plagiarism to AI-assisted cheating to the rise of fake news, Dr. Miller explores how dishonesty has become easier, more pervasive and even normalized in our society. Yet The Honesty Crisis does more than diagnose the problem: it proposes concrete, practical steps to preserve honesty where it matters most. Guest: Dr. Christian B. Miller is the A. C. Reid Professor of Philosophy at Wake Forest University. The author of numerous articles and books, he also directed The Honesty Project, one of the largest research initiatives ever undertaken on honesty. Host: Dr. Christina Gessler is an academic writing coach and editor. She holds a Ph.D. in history which she uses to explore which stories we tell and what happens to those we never tell. She is the creator, producer and show host of the Academic Life podcast. Playlist for listeners: Understanding Disinformation When Your Professor Asks You To Cheat The Last Human Job Who Gets Believed The AI Mirror: How to Reclaim Our Humanity in an Age of Machine Thinking What Do You Want Out of Life The Museum of Failure The Well-Gardened Mind A Meaningful Life The Good- Enough Life Tell Me What You Want Welcome to Academic Life, the podcast for your academic journey—and beyond! You help support the show by downloading and sharing episodes. Join us again to learn from more experts inside and outside the academy, and around the world. Missed any of the 300+ Academic Life episodes? Find them here. And thank you for listening! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Research shows that honesty is the single most important characteristic a person can possess when it comes to liking them, respecting them, and understanding them. But honesty is eroding in many areas of society today, as we are confronted with honesty crises in politics, education, relationships, religion, celebrity culture, and technology. Over the past 50 years, no single philosopher has offered a comprehensive exploration of honesty—how we define it, how it diverges in private and public spaces, and how it depends on shared perceptions of reality. Dr. Christian Miller addresses this gap, while showing how modern life increasingly rewards dishonesty, with profound consequences for our relationships, institutions and culture—a phenomenon he names The Honesty Crisis (Oxford UP, 2026). From cases such as sermon plagiarism to AI-assisted cheating to the rise of fake news, Dr. Miller explores how dishonesty has become easier, more pervasive and even normalized in our society. Yet The Honesty Crisis does more than diagnose the problem: it proposes concrete, practical steps to preserve honesty where it matters most. Guest: Dr. Christian B. Miller is the A. C. Reid Professor of Philosophy at Wake Forest University. The author of numerous articles and books, he also directed The Honesty Project, one of the largest research initiatives ever undertaken on honesty. Host: Dr. Christina Gessler is an academic writing coach and editor. She holds a Ph.D. in history which she uses to explore which stories we tell and what happens to those we never tell. She is the creator, producer and show host of the Academic Life podcast. Playlist for listeners: Understanding Disinformation When Your Professor Asks You To Cheat The Last Human Job Who Gets Believed The AI Mirror: How to Reclaim Our Humanity in an Age of Machine Thinking What Do You Want Out of Life The Museum of Failure The Well-Gardened Mind A Meaningful Life The Good- Enough Life Tell Me What You Want Welcome to Academic Life, the podcast for your academic journey—and beyond! You help support the show by downloading and sharing episodes. Join us again to learn from more experts inside and outside the academy, and around the world. Missed any of the 300+ Academic Life episodes? Find them here. And thank you for listening!

Welcome to Chatter with BNC, Business North Carolina's weekly podcast, serving up interviews with some of the Tar Heel State's most interesting people. On today's episode, Ben Kinney speaks with Craig Alden, Senior Vice President and Area Manager for the Triad at Pinnacle Financial Partners. Craig shares exciting milestones for Pinnacle — including their eighth consecutive Best Places to Work win in the Triad and their rise to the third-largest bank by market share in the region. The conversation turns to the Triad's broader economic momentum, from the Toyota plant ripple effect in Liberty to growth at GSO and the highly anticipated Grounds project at Wake Forest University. They also discuss why young professionals are increasingly choosing to call Greensboro and Winston-Salem home.

Welcome to Chatter with BNC, Business North Carolina's weekly podcast, serving up interviews with some of the Tar Heel State's most interesting people. On today's episode, Ben Kinney speaks with Craig Alden, Senior Vice President and Area Manager for the Triad at Pinnacle Financial Partners. Craig shares exciting milestones for Pinnacle — including their eighth consecutive Best Places to Work win in the Triad and their rise to the third-largest bank by market share in the region. The conversation turns to the Triad's broader economic momentum, from the Toyota plant ripple effect in Liberty to growth at GSO and the highly anticipated Grounds project at Wake Forest University. They also discuss why young professionals are increasingly choosing to call Greensboro and Winston-Salem home.

Christian B. Miller is the A.C. Reid Professor of Philosophy at Wake Forest University and the author of several books. His latest title is The Honesty Crisis: Preserving Our Most Treasured Virtue in an Increasingly Dishonest World.  Greg and Christian discuss what Christian calls ‘The Honesty Crisis.' He defines honesty as a virtue involving both stable honest behavior (not lying, cheating, stealing, misleading, promise breaking, fraud, hypocrisy, self-deception, or “BS-ing”) and proper motivation (rooted in altruistic concern or duty, not self-interest). He argues honesty tracks subjective belief, so false statements can be honest and true statements can be dishonest, and discusses bullshitting, authenticity, excessive frankness, white lies and their costs, and the puzzle of self-deception.  Christian cites research suggesting most people default to truth-telling, but claims that multiple “honesty crises” are happening now where technology makes dishonesty easier to commit and harder to detect: AI cheating, deepfakes, internet infidelity, political misinformation, celebrity/influencer dishonesty, and plagiarism.  *unSILOed Podcast is produced by University FM.* Episode Quotes: The two features of an honesty crisis 35:08: An honesty crisis, any of those, is going to have two features. It's more tempting to be dishonest than it was before, and it's easier to get away with dishonesty than it was before. So it's important to highlight that it's not that there was never dishonesty in these areas. That would be silly. That would be a bad claim, dumb claim. You know, education is one of my areas. There's always been student cheating. It's that something has changed such that it's more tempting now to be dishonest than it was before, and it's harder for others to detach that dishonesty. Is honesty one of the broadest virtues there is? 04:30: Honesty protects against lying, but it also protects against stealing, against cheating, against misleading, against promise breaking, fraud, hypocrisy, self-deception, BS-ing. There's a lot of moral territory it covers on the behavioral side. Maybe one of the broadest virtues there is. Subjective truth vs. reality 05:57: Honesty tracks the subjective truth. It tracks how you see the reality, not necessarily how reality really is. I mean, ideally, of course, you want your subjective representation to line up with how reality really is. That's what we all want. But it doesn't always. And honesty tracks how you see the world, how you see reality, not necessarily how reality really is. Show Links: Recommended Resources: Virtue Honesty Harry Frankfurt Aristotle Truth-Default Theory Pizzagate Conspiracy Theory Guest Profile: The Study Center at Wake Forest Profile ChristianBMiller.com LinkedIn Profile Wikipedia Page Social Profile on X UnSILOED Ep 187: Christian B. Miller - What Does It Mean To Be Virtuous Now? Guest Work: Amazon Author Page The Honesty Crisis: Preserving Our Most Treasured Virtue in an Increasingly Dishonest World Moral Psychology Honesty: The Philosophy and Psychology of a Neglected Virtue The Character Gap: How Good Are We? Character and Moral Psychology Google Scholar Page Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

******Support the channel******Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/thedissenterPayPal: paypal.me/thedissenterPayPal Subscription 1 Dollar: https://tinyurl.com/yb3acuuyPayPal Subscription 3 Dollars: https://tinyurl.com/ybn6bg9lPayPal Subscription 5 Dollars: https://tinyurl.com/ycmr9gpzPayPal Subscription 10 Dollars: https://tinyurl.com/y9r3fc9mPayPal Subscription 20 Dollars: https://tinyurl.com/y95uvkao ******Follow me on******Website: https://www.thedissenter.net/The Dissenter Goodreads list: https://shorturl.at/7BMoBFacebook: https://www.facebook.com/thedissenteryt/Twitter: https://x.com/TheDissenterYT This show is sponsored by Enlites, Learning & Development done differently. Check the website here: http://enlites.com/ Dr. Christian B. Miller is the A. C. Reid Professor of Philosophy at Wake Forest University. His research is primarily in contemporary ethics and philosophy of religion. He has written for the Wall Street Journal, Dallas Morning News, Slate, Prospect Magazine, Relevant Magazine, Michael Hyatt Magazine, The Conversation, Newsweek, Aeon, Greater Good Magazine, Nautilus Magazine, Fathom Magazine, Institute of Art and Ideas, and Christianity Today. He's the author of several books, the most recent one being The Honesty Crisis: Preserving Our Most Treasured Virtue in an Increasingly Dishonest World. In this episode, we focus on The Honesty Crisis. We talk about what honesty is, and what constitutes an honest person. We discuss whether there is ever permissible to lie, and whether omission is always a form of dishonesty. We talk about how honest people are, based on psychological studies. We discuss whether we are living through a dishonesty crisis, and explore online dishonesty, with a focus on deepfakes and social media. We talk about how people can become more honest. Finally, we discuss whether inconsistency can be a form of dishonesty.--A HUGE THANK YOU TO MY PATRONS/SUPPORTERS: PER HELGE LARSEN, BERNARDO SEIXAS, ADAM KESSEL, MATTHEW WHITINGBIRD, ARNAUD WOLFF, TIM HOLLOSY, HENRIK AHLENIUS, ROBERT WINDHAGER, RUI INACIO, ZOOP, MARCO NEVES, COLIN HOLBROOK, PHIL KAVANAGH, SAMUEL ANDREEFF, FRANCIS FORDE, TIAGO NUNES, FERGAL CUSSEN, HAL HERZOG, NUNO MACHADO, JONATHAN LEIBRANT, JOÃO LINHARES, STANTON T, SAMUEL CORREA, ERIK HAINES, MARK SMITH, JOÃO EIRA, TOM HUMMEL, SARDUS FRANCE, DAVID SLOAN WILSON, YACILA DEZA-ARAUJO, ROMAIN ROCH, YANICK PUNTER, CHARLOTTE BLEASE, NICOLE BARBARO, PAWEL OSTASZEWSKI, NELLEKE BAK, GUY MADISON, GARY G HELLMANN, SAIMA AFZAL, ADRIAN JAEGGI, JOÃO BARBOSA, JULIAN PRICE, HEDIN BRØNNER, FRANCA BORTOLOTTI, GABRIEL PONS CORTÈS, URSULA LITZCKE, SCOTT, ZACHARY FISH, TIM DUFFY, SUNNY SMITH, JON WISMAN, WILLIAM BUCKNER, LUKE GLOWACKI, GEORGIOS THEOPHANOUS, CHRIS WILLIAMSON, PETER WOLOSZYN, DAVID WILLIAMS, DIOGO COSTA, ALEX CHAU, CORALIE CHEVALLIER, BANGALORE ATHEISTS, LARRY D. LEE JR., OLD HERRINGBONE, DAN SPERBER, ROBERT GRESSIS, JEFF MCMAHAN, JAKE ZUEHL, MARK CAMPBELL, TOMAS DAUBNER, LUKE NISSEN, KIMBERLY JOHNSON, JESSICA NOWICKI, LINDA BRANDIN, VALENTIN STEINMANN, ALEXANDER HUBBARD, BR, JONAS HERTNER, URSULA GOODENOUGH, DAVID PINSOF, SEAN NELSON, MIKE LAVIGNE, JOS KNECHT, LUCY, MANVIR SINGH, PETRA WEIMANN, CAROLA FEEST, MAURO JÚNIOR, TONY BARRETT, NIKOLAI VISHNEVSKY, STEVEN GANGESTAD, TED FARRIS, HUGO B., JORDAN MANSFIELD, CHARLOTTE ALLEN, PETER STOYKO, DAVID TONNER, LEE BECK, PATRICK DALTON-HOLMES, NICK KRASNEY, RACHEL ZAK, DENNIS XAVIER, CHINMAYA BHAT, RHYS, ALEX MACLEOD, HAIDAR, JULIEN PORCHER, ROBERT SUNDSTRÖM, JON STEWART, AND JENNY M!A SPECIAL THANKS TO MY PRODUCERS, YZAR WEHBE, JIM FRANK, ŁUKASZ STAFINIAK, TOM VANEGDOM, BERNARD HUGUENEY, CURTIS DIXON, THOMAS TRUMBLE, KATHRINE AND PATRICK TOBIN, JONCARLO MONTENEGRO, NICK GOLDEN, CHRISTINE GLASS, IGOR NIKIFOROVSKI, PER KRAULIS, ADAM HUNT, AND JOÃO BARBOSA!AND TO MY EXECUTIVE PRODUCERS, MATTHEW LAVENDER,SERGIU CODREANU, AND GREGORY HASTINGS!

Could choosing the wrong franchise cost you years of time, money, and opportunity before you even realize you've made the mistake? If you're considering franchise ownership, it's easy to get distracted by big brand names, flashy marketing, or promises of financial freedom. But as you'll hear in this first episode of a three-part franchising series, the wrong franchise isn't always a bad franchise—it's often a franchise that doesn't fit your goals, skills, lifestyle, or vision for the future. Understanding how to evaluate opportunities before you invest can help you avoid expensive mistakes and increase your chances of building a business worth owning. What You'll Gain From This Episode: Learn the most common reasons entrepreneurs end up choosing the wrong franchise and how to avoid those costly pitfalls. Discover the key questions to ask when evaluating franchise opportunities, franchise culture, support systems, and long-term growth potential. Understand how your personality, experience, risk tolerance, and goals should influence your franchise selection process. Before you invest a dollar into franchise ownership, listen to this episode to learn how to avoid the wrong franchise and identify opportunities that align with your vision for growth and long-term success. Check out: 3:35 – Should You Buy an Established Franchise or Take a Risk on a New Concept? Matt Stevens explains why some investors are attracted to emerging franchise brands and the risks and rewards of getting in early. 16:50 – The Hidden Costs and Challenges of Becoming a Franchisor Learn why franchising isn't a shortcut to growth and what business owners often underestimate when expanding through a franchise model. 29:15 – The Biggest Reason People Choose the Wrong Franchise Matt shares why franchise success starts with understanding your own goals, lifestyle, and motivations—not just finding a popular brand. About Matt Stevens The Franchise Guy, Matt Stevens, is among the more experienced franchise consultants in the country, with more than thirty years in the industry. He has owned four businesses, been Rookie Franchisee of the Year, turned around struggling divisions, and served as a quality board member and partner inside a two-billion-dollar franchise group. Matt is a FranChoice Gold and Century Club member, a Business First Columbus Forty Under 40 honoree, and the author of Franchising 101, an introductory course to franchising. He holds three business degrees from Florida Southern College and Wake Forest University, and is a MENSA member

Today on The Gist, Mike asks whether everyone is a hypocrite, or whether hypocrisy has become so universal that the word barely functions. Graham Platner, Ken Paxton, Pete Hegseth, Susan Collins, and Jake Auchincloss all make appearances in a tour of political standards, double standards, and the rare politician willing to say his own side's nominee fails the test. Then, Christian B. Miller, A.C. Reid Professor of Philosophy at Wake Forest University and author of The Honesty Crisis, joins to discuss why honesty ranks as our most treasured virtue, why people still cheat when they think they can get away with it, and why a small share of people may be responsible for a huge share of lies. Plus, Mike presses Miller on pornography, fantasy, celebrity, politics, and whether public life now overexposes us to the professions where dishonesty pays best.   Produced by Corey Wara Edited by Geoff Craig Do you have questions or comments, or just want to say hello? Email us at ⁠⁠⁠⁠thegist@mikepesca.com For full Pesca content and updates, check out our website at https://www.mikepesca.com/⁠ For ad-free content or to become a Pesca Plus subscriber, check out ⁠⁠⁠⁠https://subscribe.mikepesca.com/ For Mike's daily takes on Substack, subscribe to The Gist List https://mikepesca.substack.com/ Follow us on Social Media:⁠⁠⁠⁠ YouTube https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC4_bh0wHgk2YfpKf4rg40_g⁠⁠⁠⁠ Instagram https://www.instagram.com/pescagist/ X https://x.com/pescami TikTok https://www.tiktok.com/@pescagist To advertise on the show, contact ⁠⁠⁠⁠sales@amplitudemediapartners.com Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

What does it look like when someone builds their entire life around a question — not “what can I get?” but “what can I give?” Today’s guest has been quietly answering that for over a decade, and the results speak for themselves: hundreds of young lives redirected, a nonprofit that has become a genuine force in Charlotte, and a reputation so consistent that his colleagues simply call him Superman. Jimmy McQuilkin grew up in Columbia, Maryland, graduated No. 1 in his high school class, and arrived at Wake Forest University with enough drive to talk his way onto the men’s basketball team as a non-scholarship walk-on. He earned two varsity letters and, in his own words, “dribbled out the clock a few times.” But it wasn’t the hardwood that changed his life — it was a volunteer experience at a Latino community services organization in Winston-Salem that set everything in motion. After Wake Forest, he joined Teach For America, taught Spanish and coached basketball in Charlotte, and was named First Year Teacher of the Year. In 2013, he co-founded UrbanPromise Charlotte — a Christian-centered nonprofit that now serves 335 young people across three sites, employs 105 people, and runs one of the most inspired youth leadership models anywhere in this city. People who know Jimmy describe him as “the most intentional” and “the most humble” person in the room — which, if you know anything about leadership, tells you everything. Jimmy, welcome to The BrandBuilders Podcast.

At the SOAP meeting in Montreal, Desiree Chappell and Monty Mythen interview Dr. Marie Louise Meng, Assistant Professor of Anesthesiology at Duke University Department of Anesthesiology and her former cardio-obstetric fellow Liliane Ernst, assistant professor in the Obstetric and Gynecologic Anesthesia section Wake Forest University. The conversation focuses on cardio-obstetric anesthesia, hemodynamics, monitoring, and patient-centered care. Meng describes building multidisciplinary "pregnancy heart teams" to plan management for complex cardiac disease in pregnancy and reduce birth trauma. Ernst discusses research using the Premier database on preexisting atrial fibrillation in pregnancy (about 25 per 100,000 deliveries) and associated management and outcomes. They review cases including mechanical circulatory support with an Impella to prolong pregnancy and highlight knowledge gaps about placental perfusion and pulsatility, including Fontan physiology. Meng outlines individualized hemodynamic monitoring for labor and C-sections, emphasizes recognizing hypertensive instability, and details preeclampsia with severe features, its end-organ criteria, incidence, disparities, postpartum follow-up challenges, and potential use of remote monitoring and noninvasive cardiac output/SVR monitoring to guide therapy. Monty Mythen, founding editor-in-chief of TopMedTalk, is now Senior Vice President, Scientific Liaison, BD Advanced Patient Monitoring. He is also Emeritus Professor of Anaesthesia and Critical Care, University College London, UK. Desirée Chappell, former co-editor-in-chief of TopMedTalk, is now Director of Medical Affairs and Medical Science Liaison, BD Advanced Patient Monitoring. She is also a CRNA at NorthStar Anesthesia, USA. -- Join us at Evidence Based Perioperative Medicine (EBPOM) World Congress 2026 in London. Be part of a global conversation as clinicians from around the world gather between 7-9th July at the British Library in London. Three days of evidence-based perioperative medicine, global insights, and expert debate—featuring speakers including Michael Marmot and Ken Rockwood. Register here - EBPOM World Congress 2026

Welcome to the Influence Podcast! I'm George P. Wood, executive editor of Influence magazine and your host. "Honesty matters, and people care a great deal about it," writes Christian Miller. Yet we are facing an unprecedented erosion of honesty today — what I call an honesty crisis. Indeed, we are facing not just one crisis, but a variety of honesty crises in different parts of our society. … Fortunately, in many cases, there are concrete steps we can take to turn the tide." In this episode of the Influence Podcast, I talk about those steps with Christian Miller. He is the A. C. Reid Professor of Philosophy at Wake Forest University, president of the Society of Christian Philosophers, and author of The Honesty Crisis: Preserving Our Most Treasured Virtue in an Increasingly Dishonest World, published by Oxford University Press.   Sponsor AdThis episode of the Influence podcast is brought to you by Gospel Publishing House, distributors of Trusted with Treasureby Assemblies of God General Secretary Brad Kesler. Just as nautical charts and lighthouses guide captains safely past hazards, this handbook on ministerial ethics will help equip you to build healthy relationships, avoid unwise behaviors, and serve with integrity and the highest ethical standards. For more information about Trusted with Treasure visit GospelPublishingHouse.com. Show Notes 00:00 — Introduction and Sponsor Ad 02:25 — What is honesty, and why do you think we're having an "honesty crisis"? 07:30 — How honest are most people typically, and why do we lie? 13:24 — What's the "online infidelity" crisis, and what can we do about it? 25:58 — What is the "fake news and politics" crisis, and what can we do about it? 35:30 — What is "sermon plagiarism," why is it wrong, and what can we do about it?? 46:23 — Pastors sometimes fall to the temptations of "online infidelity" and "celebrity." What's going on here and what can we do about it? 50:44 — As a Christian philosopher, what general advice would you give pastors about helping their congregations become more honest both individually and corporately?? 57:40 — What are you reading right now that is interesting, helpful, and/or personally challenging? 1:00:16 — Conclusion

Arthur Monarque became the first incarcerated student at Pelican Bay State Prison to earn a bachelor's degree through Cal Poly Humboldt. Now he's headed to Wake Forest University on a full scholarship.

Part 1:We talk with Cory D.B. Walker, Dean, School of Divinity, Wake Forest Prof. of Humanities, Wake Forest University.We discuss the importance and uses of religion in today's political climate. We look at how the Constitution treats religion.Part 2:We talk with Mike Sacks, political and legal journalist.We discuss court reform, specifically reforms needed in the Supreme Court. We note how the last six Justices were appointed, and who recommended them. We look at the role of Leonard Leo, and the rule of Agnus Dei in the Supreme Court rulings. What is needed to have accountability on the Supreme Court.  WNHNFM.ORG  productionMusic: "That's how every empire falls", John Prine

A long-term care crisis can erase decades of savings in a shockingly short time, and most families do not realize it until they are already in the middle of it. That's why we're excited to introduce Anthony Robreno, a new attorney in our Charlotte office, and talk about what proactive elder law and estate planning actually look like when you're trying to protect a home, property, and the future you built.Anthony shares his path from South Florida and his Cuban heritage to Wake Forest University and then the Mecklenburg County District Attorney's Office, where he served as a prosecutor. He explains what that work taught him about being reactive after tragedy, and why he chose elder law as a way to help families earlier, before “the worst day” forces rushed decisions. We dig into the real-world value of planning tools like powers of attorney and other core estate planning documents that help you stay in control, protect your choices, and reduce stress on the people you love.We also talk about the financial reality behind Medicaid planning and long-term care planning, and why so many families unintentionally sacrifice the chance to pass down assets simply because they waited too long to plan. If you're looking for a bilingual Spanish-speaking attorney in Charlotte, or you want clearer next steps for protecting your legacy, this conversation is a strong place to start.Subscribe for more practical guidance, share this with someone who needs a plan, and leave a review to help more families find the show.

The Greek philosopher Epicurus made a rather bold claim over two thousand years ago. The key to life, he said, is simple: pursue pleasure and avoid pain. Around this maxim he developed a school of philosophy, Epicureanism, which promised its adherents that if they took care of their basic needs, surrounded themselves with trustworthy friends, and developed a basic understanding of science, they would be happy. But is it really that simple? Can the advice of someone born 2,363 years ago still hold true? To answer these questions, we turned to Emily Austin, professor of philosophy at Wake Forest University and author of the delightful book Living for Pleasure: An Epicurean Guide to Life. (This episode first aired in January 2023.) Sponsored By: Granola — If meetings are eating up your day, Granola is a no-brainer. You can try it totally free for three months. Just head to granola.ai/idea  Incogni — Protect your personal information online and get an exclusive 60% off an annual plan at incogni.com/nbi  Quince — Refresh your spring wardrobe and get free shipping and 365-day returns at quince.com/nbi    Shopify — Launch your business for just $1/month. Start selling today at shopify.com/nbi

On episode 257, we welcome Christian B. Miller to discuss the growing honesty crises shaping modern society, the philosophical and psychological roots of dishonesty and self-deception, the impact of AI and deepfakes on our ability to trust reality, the rise of AI use and academic integrity concerns in education, how social media rewards performance over authenticity, the spread of misinformation and political polarization online, whether technology is scaling deception faster than virtue can adapt, the importance of preserving honesty as a foundational human virtue, and what still gives Christian hope for humanity's relationship with truth in an increasingly dishonest world.  Christian B. Miller is the A. C. Reid Professor of Philosophy at Wake Forest University. He is the author of over 130 articles as well as Moral Psychology (2021) and four books with Oxford University Press, Moral Character: An Empirical Theory (2013), Character and Moral Psychology (2014), The Character Gap: How Good Are We? (2017), and Honesty: The Philosophy and Psychology of a Neglected Virtue (2021). He is a contributor for Forbes, and his writings have appeared in The New York Times, Wall Street Journal, Dallas Morning News, Slate, The Conversation, Newsweek, Aeon, and Christianity Today. His new book, available May 19, 2026, is called The Honesty Crisis: Preserving Our Most Treasured Virtue in an Increasingly Dishonest World. | Christian Miller | ► Website | https://www.christianbmiller.com ► Twitter | https://twitter.com/CharacterGap ► Instagram | https://www.instagram.com/charactergap ► Facebook | https://www.facebook.com/CharacterGap ► The Honesty Crisis Book | https://amzn.to/4uSp1z1 Where you can find us: | Seize The Moment Podcast | ► Facebook | https://www.facebook.com/SeizeTheMomentPodcast ► Twitter | https://twitter.com/seize_podcast  ► Instagram | https://www.instagram.com/seizethemomentpodcast ► TikTok | https://www.tiktok.com/@seizethemomentpodcast  

 Vaccines are essential to public health, yet the current Department of Health and Human Service leadership has led changes in vaccine recommendations that are not grounded in scientific evidence. Experts Tina Hartert, MD, MPH, Vanderbilt University, and Ryan Maves, MD, Wake Forest University, discuss with host Patti Tripathi the multi-professional society effort to protect and promote a science-based vaccine schedule for patients and health care providers, and to equip individuals with clear, practical ways to advocate for evidence-based immunization policies. 

PRACTICAL Wisdom for Parenting Adult Children with Dr. Gary Chapman (Episode 291)   John 15:5 NIV ““I am the vine; you are the branches. If you remain in me and I in you, you will bear much fruit; apart from me you can do nothing.”   *Transcription Below*   Dr. Gary Chapman is an experienced and well-respected family counselor, and a well-known author having written more than forty books. He hosts a nationally syndicated radio program, A Love Language Minute, and a Saturday morning program, Building Relationships with Dr. Gary Chapman, that air on more than 400 stations.   The 5 Love Languages, one of Chapman's most popular titles, topped various bestseller charts for years. It has been published in more than 50 languages, sold more than 14 million copies and is currently on the New York Times best-seller list. Dr. Chapman has been directly involved in real-life family counseling for more than 40 years.   Dr. Chapman holds B.A. and M.A. degrees in anthropology from Wheaton College and Wake Forest University, respectively. He received his Ph.D. degree from Southwestern Baptist Theological Seminary and has taken postgraduate work at the University of North Carolina and Duke University.   Dr. Chapman and his wife, Karolyn, have been married for more than 45 years and reside in Winston- Salem, N.C. The Chapmans have two grown children, Shelley and Derek.   5 Love Languages Website   Thank you to Our Sponsor: Midwest Food Bank   Questions and Topics We Cover: Are there any other practical things we can be doing now, while our children are still in the home, that ideally sets us up for a healthy relationship once they launch out of our home?  For parents approaching the new season of parenting young adults, what are the best practices for navigating this transition? If we do find ourselves in a season where our adult child and maybe his/her family is living with us, what guidelines do you suggest to honor both parties?   Previous Episodes of the Savvy Sauce with Dr. Gary Chapman: 85 Five Love Languages with Dr. Gary Chapman 182 Things I Wish I'd Known Before My Child Became a Teenager with Dr. Gary Chapman 191 Friendships Heal Racial Divides with Dr. Clarence Shuler and Dr. Gary Chapman 220 Cultivating Healthy Relationships with Dr. Gary Chapman   Related Articles: Family Discipleship Tools My 10 Favorite Parenting Books How Can I Enjoy My Kids More?   Connect with The Savvy Sauce on Facebook or Instagram or Our Website   Gospel Scripture: (all NIV) Romans 3:23 “for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,”   Romans 3:24 “and are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus.”   Romans 3:25 (a) “God presented him as a sacrifice of atonement, through faith in his blood.”    Hebrews 9:22 (b) “without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness.”    Romans 5:8 “But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us.”    Romans 5:11 “Not only is this so, but we also rejoice in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received reconciliation.”    John 3:16 “For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.”   Romans 10:9 “That if you confess with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.”    Luke 15:10 says “In the same way, I tell you, there is rejoicing in the presence of the angels of God over one sinner who repents.”   Romans 8:1 “Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus”   Ephesians 1:13–14 “And you also were included in Christ when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation. Having believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God's possession- to the praise of his glory.”   Ephesians 1:15–23 “For this reason, ever since I heard about your faith in the Lord Jesus and your love for all the saints, I have not stopped giving thanks for you, remembering you in my prayers. I keep asking that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the glorious Father, may give you the spirit of wisdom and revelation, so that you may know him better. I pray also that the eyes of your heart may be enlightened in order that you may know the hope to which he has called you, the riches of his glorious inheritance in the saints, and his incomparably great power for us who believe. That power is like the working of his mighty strength, which he exerted in Christ when he raised him from the dead and seated him at his right hand in the heavenly realms, far above all rule and authority, power and dominion, and every title that can be given, not only in the present age but also in the one to come. And God placed all things under his feet and appointed him to be head over everything for the church, which is his body, the fullness of him who fills everything in every way.”   Ephesians 2:8–10 “For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith – and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God – not by works, so that no one can boast. For we are God‘s workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.“   Ephesians 2:13 “But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far away have been brought near through the blood of Christ.“   Philippians 1:6 “being confident of this, that he who began a good work in you will carry it on to completion until the day of Christ Jesus.”   *Transcription*‍ ‍   Music: (0:00 - 0:11)   Laura Dugger: (0:12 - 2:04) Welcome to The Savvy Sauce, where we have practical chats for intentional living. I'm your host, Laura Dugger. I'm so glad you're here.   Thank you to an anonymous donor to Midwest Food Bank, who paid the sponsorship fee in hopes of spreading awareness. Learn more about this amazing nonprofit organization at MidwestFoodBank.org.   Dr. Gary Chapman is my amazing returning guest. I'm going to link to his other episodes on The Savvy Sauce, where we've covered a variety of topics, from the five love languages in marriage or in families, parenting teenagers, and just overall creating a loving home and family environment.   But today, we're going to actually focus on a later stage of life, parenting adult children. Whenever I get a chance to talk with Dr. Gary Chapman, he just oozes wisdom on every topic that we've covered, and I know you're going to feel the same way after concluding the message today. I've just noticed this theme that anytime I talk to somebody who's a few seasons ahead of me, they consistently said the same thing, that their hardest stage of parenting was parenting adult children.   And that shocked me, so I wanted to seek out the wisdom of somebody who's gone before us and bring in this expert who can give us wise counsel so that all of us can delight in parenting well and enjoying all of the seasons. Dr. Gary Chapman is going to do exactly that today.   Here's our chat. Welcome back to The Savvy Sauce, Dr. Chapman.   Dr. Gary Chapman: (2:04 - 2:07) Well, thank you. I'm delighted to be with you again.   Laura Dugger: (2:07 - 2:40) Well, our main topic for today is going to be about parenting adult children, especially after completing your amazing resource. But I think it'd first be helpful to back up a little bit and just have you share how we can be proactive now while our children are still in the home. If we're hoping to have wonderful relationships when we launch our children, when they're grown adults.   So, can you just start off by sharing the dangers of both under-parenting and over-parenting?   Dr. Gary Chapman: (2:41 - 7:35) Well, I think, first of all, as parents, we have to keep in mind we have 18 years. Because in our culture at 18, they're typically going to college, get a job or join the military. So, we have to be thinking independence.   That is doing everything we can to help them to be able to take care of themselves. And when we're not around. So, first of all, I think it means that we need to make sure we are expressing love to them in a way that's meaningful to them.   That our children feel loved. I've often said to parents, the question is not, do you love your children? The question is, do your children feel loved?   And that's where the five love languages of children and the five-love language of teenagers has helped so many parents realize what makes one child feel loved doesn't make another child feel loved. So, you have to discover their love language and on a regular basis be speaking that love language to them. I think another factor is that I would encourage parents, especially if they're in the teenage years or 10 and up, have maybe once a month have breakfast with one child.   Take them out to breakfast, just one child, so that you can talk about whatever they want to talk about. And you can talk about whatever you want to talk about. But if they know that that's a part of life and that's where they can ask you questions when nobody's around, and you can have conversations with them.   I just found that with my own kids. That was great. And they say to me, they look back on that as a very positive experience, is having that individual time with me.   Of course, we only had two children. Now, if you have five children, and I only did it once a month, but five once a month would be every week, I guess. But it's just an idea.   But I think if they feel loved, and they feel like that we're a safe place where they can talk about and ask questions about things, and we can talk openly, that's a big part of getting them ready. The other thing that I've suggested to couples is, what if you make a list? And if your children are 10 or up, let them help you make a list of all the things they would like to know how to do by the time they're 18.   And some of them may say, well, I'd like to learn how to cook, or I'd like to learn how to boil eggs. Or I might like to learn how to take a tire off of my car, put it back on, put the spare on. Amazing, you know, what they might want to do.   And that may vary with each child. But you ought to think in terms of what would you like for them to be able to do. And then you want to be working on those things while they're still with you.   If you want them to be able to make up their own bed, you can start that at five years old. You know, by the time they get to be 18, they got it down. If you don't want them to know how to make up a bed, then they're going to go to college and never make up a bed. And they're going to get married and never make up a bed.   And if they marry somebody that thinks a bed ought to be made up, then they got a conflict. So, it can be little things like that.   But I do think that for most parents, they would hope that the children will learn a little bit about cooking. You know, because we have to eat. And it's an advantage.   Anybody that gets married is happy if they marry somebody that knows how to cook. Whether it's the husband or the wife. So, I think that's a huge issue.   But keeping the flow of communication open with the children so that they feel like they're safe with you. That they can communicate with you. That is huge.   And I'll be very honest; there are a lot of parents that don't do that. They're so involved in their work and in other activities that they don't really talk with their kids very much. You know, they might watch a ball game together or something, but they don't really talk about life.   And consequently, when the kids go off and they don't feel a real attachment to you, they're far more out there on their own now. And they're likely going to have more problems than if they had a close connection with you. Because if they have a close connection, even in college, they'll ask you questions.   They'll communicate with you. And communication is the lifeblood of relationship. So, anything you can do to foster that. Wonderful.   Laura Dugger: (7:37 - 8:03) So great. I love those practical tips for what we can be doing now. And I'm just curious, with all of your travels and speaking around the world, and throughout the decades, just seeing changes, do you have any caution for parents of what to avoid or even what to focus on currently to set them up well for their relationship in the future with their adult child?   Dr. Gary Chapman: (8:04 - 10:42) I think one is talking to them about what they think they might like to do when they grow up. Having those kinds of conversations. And what that might look like.   Because our daughter, for example, when she was eight years old, said to us, “When I grow up, I'm going to be a doctor.” And we said, “Well, honey, if that's what God wants, then that would be fine.” But in high school, she took four years of Latin.   Three years of chemistry in high school. She was serious. And so, if they say they want to be something, then you have to help them think about what kind of requirements would that be to do what you're thinking about doing.   And another thing would be to, in high school, let them have conversations with somebody that you might know in your church or your circle that does that. If they think they'd like to be a businessperson, for example, or sell cars, or run a business, or try to have a conversation. And most adults who are in a business or who are doing anything, they'd be happy to talk to a teenager that thinks they'd like to do this.   And that person can give them great advice in terms of what you might be doing now in high school and what you might do if you go to college and all that sort of thing. So, I think because vocation is a huge part of life. And I think the other thing, of course, is we need to be sharing our faith.   If we're Christians, we need to be sharing our faith with them. And to me, that means things like the very beginning, as early as you can start it, having a devotional time for the whole family every night. And what my wife and I did when they're just all the way along, one of us would go to the bed with them when we put them to bed and get on our knees beside the bed and pray with them.   And if they get older, then they start praying. But when they see when we teach them our faith, and of course, having them involved in a church and all that sort of thing is so very helpful to kids. And in the teenage years, for them to have a place to go and do things with other Christian kids.   Again, you know, the church can't raise kids. That's our responsibility. But the church can be a real source of help with our children, where they can interface and have other people that are teaching them things about God and about life.   So, all of that, I think, is important.   Laura Dugger: (10:43 - 11:22) I love that. I'm hearing themes of open communication both ways, where we're sharing and imparting and discipling, but they're also expressing their wants or needs or desires. And I think also a theme of purpose, instilling purpose in them, which gives a great vision for long term.   But now let's speak to parents who are approaching this new season of maybe their teenager turning 18 or moving out. And now the parents are finding themselves transitioning to parenting young adults. So, what are the best practices for navigating this transitional season?   Dr. Gary Chapman: (11:23 - 15:48) Well, that's why I wrote this book. Because a lot of parents' struggle. And some over parent, you know, after they moved out, they over parent.   They want to keep talking with them every single day and tell them what they ought to be doing and all that kind of stuff. And the child feels like, you know, I can do some things on my own, you know. And then some are under parent.   They just, if they go to college, they go to college. They might talk to them once a week or something, you know. So, I think we have to just think in terms of what feels good for the child, you know.   Because you to call them when you don't know their schedule, you probably have a hard time. Far better to ask them, how would you like to talk for us to talk? And when would be a good time in your schedule that you could call us, you know.   So, I think working out some things about how much contact we're going to have because they want a sense of freedom. And they should have. And we've been training them for independence.   So, but we also want to keep in contact with them. We want to, you know, have some ongoing time with them. And depending on now many times today, they're living at home while they go to college.   So, you have an extended opportunity. To have an influence on their lives. But that's where you have to talk about, now what's our pattern going to be?   Because you're going off to college, but you're going to be coming home every night to be here. And we're happy about that, you know. If that's what you want to do.   Obviously it's saving money for the parents because they don't have to pay for a dorm room. So, but we talk about, you know, can we agree on kind of a bedtime? Because if you're out at one o'clock, you know, I have a hard time sleeping.   Because you just, you know, I think, wonder what's happened to them, you know. So, could we have a kind of a set time that you shoot to be home? And if you realize there's something turned up, you would call me.   You call one of us and say, you know, I know I normally get home at whatever time, but right now this is what's happened. So, I need to do this and all. Okay, honey, okay.   That's fine. You don't want to over control them. But if you're going to be home, you have to think about yourself as well as them.   Because you've got a life to live. Your life has to go on while they're developing their new lifestyle. So, I think conversations again, it's really important at that stage of life.   And keeping in contact but not over controlling them. And I'd say make suggestions rather than like giving your advice. You know, just to say, you know, you ought to do this.   Or maybe now they're looking for a job, you know. And you say, well, you ought to get that, you ought to get that resume sent in today if you want to get a job. And now you're putting pressure on them, you know.   But you could say just as easily, you know, one suggestion that I'd suggest that you think about is maybe getting in your application as soon as possible. Because probably the sooner you get it in, the more likely you might, you know, be able to get the job. So rather than telling them what they need to do, make suggestions rather than demands.   Because again, we want to foster independence. We don't want to control their lives. We want them to be free to make decisions.   But if they ask advice, it's fine. Give them advice if they ask advice. If they don't, it's okay to give them a suggestion.   But give it as a suggestion, not as something, well, you ought to do this, you know. So, we don't want to over-control them. Otherwise, we're really going to push them away.   No young person wants to be over-controlled by their parents. And yet, they need our input. And if we have a positive relationship, they'll probably ask us for our input, you know. It's a good relationship.   Laura Dugger: (15:50 - 17:50) I think that really requires humility on both sides. And that's great and worthwhile to cultivate that in any phase of life. ‍ ‍   And now a brief message from our sponsor.   Midwest Food Bank exists to provide industry-leading food relief to those in need while feeding them spiritually. They are a food charity with a desire to demonstrate God's love by providing help to those in need. Unlike other parts of the world where there's not enough food, in America, the resources actually do exist.   That's why food pantries and food banks like Midwest Food Bank are so important. The goods that they deliver to their agency partners help to supplement the food supply for families and individuals across our country, aiding those whose resources are beyond stretched. Midwest Food Bank also supports people globally through their locations in Haiti and East Africa which are some of the areas hardest hit by hunger arising from poverty.   This ministry reaches millions of people every year and thanks to the Lord's provision, 99% of every donation goes directly toward providing food to people in need. The remaining 1% of income is used for fundraising, costs of leadership, oversight, and other administrative expenses. Donations, volunteers, and prayers are always appreciated for Midwest Food Bank.   To learn more, visit MidwestFoodBank.org or listen to episode 83 of The Savvy Sauce where the founder, David Kieser, shares miracles of God that he's witnessed through this nonprofit organization. I hope you check them out today.   Also, Dr. Chapman, have you noticed any universal challenges or frustrations from both sides, from adult children and the parents who have raised them just in that phase of life, maybe things that we can be prepared for?   Dr. Gary Chapman: (17:50 - 23:36) Yeah. Well, I think one thing is that there are a lot of young adults who feel like their parents are trying to control their lives and that's not a positive thing. I think there are a lot of parents that are very disturbed over the decisions their young adult children are making.   And this is hard. I can understand that. It's hard.   When you see them, for example, telling you, I've decided not to go to church this semester or I've decided, I don't think I want to go to church anymore. Well, you come down hard on them and say, now, da-da-da, da-da-da, da-da-da. You're just pushing them away.   Far better to ask questions. That's interesting, honey. What leads you to say that?   And then just keep asking questions. Keep asking questions. And then I think we have to do what God does.   We have to give them freedom. And we can honestly say, after we've listened to them and they tell us why, we can say, well, you know, it's your decision, honey. I mean, you're an adult now and it's your decision.   You know that. I'm not real happy about it, but it's your life. And, you know, again, whatever kind of relationship you've had with them spiritually and how you shared with them spiritually is going to have an impact here.   But I think parents have a hard time when their children make decisions that hurt them. You know whether it's moral decisions or whether it's spiritual decisions or whatever the decision. But what we don't want to do is cut them off.   Because if we say, “Well, if that's the lifestyle you're going to live, I don't want you in my house anymore.” And there are parents that have said those kinds of things. Now you've lost all opportunity to have a positive influence on them. And it was your choice.   Now, if they break off from you, and this happens a lot too, where a parent, a child is deciding a lifestyle that they know their parents don't like. And the parents have come down on them really hard.   And every time they get together, they're preaching them a sermon. And the adult child says, well, I'm just not going to have contact with you. Every time I come home, you're on my case.   I'm not going to answer your phone. And I'm not going to answer your text. Well, again, we can't keep them from doing that.   But what we want to do is to try to keep the relationship open and not demanding things of them so that they won't cut us off. Because if they cut us off or we cut them off, we've lost opportunity to have an impact on their lives.   So even if we disagree with them, and as I said, “God gives his children freedom. If you want to disobey God, you can. You'll suffer the consequences, but you can.” And we have to give them the same freedom.   And we can say things like, honey, it hurts me that you're choosing to do that. But I want you to know that I love you. And I will love you no matter what.   And I will pray for you. I love you. And if you ever want to talk further about this, I'd be happy to talk further with you.   But I love you, even though I disagree, obviously, with what you're choosing. But that kind of approach is far healthier. And chances are, listen, the prodigal son's father didn't go out there trying to bring him back.   He waited till God brought his son to the pig pen. And if they're making poor decisions, they're going to end up in the pig pen. But now, they've got a picture in their mind of a parent who loved them.   And they do what the prodigal son did. I'd be better off working on the farm at home than out here in the pig pen. And they come home.   And, you know, they come home often with regret. And then we receive them back. And now we're reunited.   Now we've got another chance here. But I think as parents, you know, we're so concerned. And I understand that.   And we should be concerned. And we want them to make wise decisions and make lifestyle choices that we know are healthy and we know are right. And it breaks our heart when they're not.   But because out of our pain, we often make poor decisions ourselves. You know, we retreat them in a way that's negative and condemning and demanding. And so, they walk away.   Far better to express the truth about how you feel. They already know they're hurting you. But you express it to them.   But you let them know I love you and I will always love you no matter what you do. Now you've kept the door open.   Laura Dugger: (23:38 - 24:01) And I think the fruit of the spirit that really stands out in that response is gentleness and that that would go a long way. But also, if we are at that phase of parenting adult children, a lot of times around that time comes grandparenting as well. So, do you have any wise counsel for grandparents?   Dr. Gary Chapman: (24:02 - 27:21) Yeah, I would say. And again, a lot depends on how close you are physically. If you live in North Carolina where I live and your grandkids live in Portland, Oregon, that's one thing, you know.   But if you live in the same town as a grandparent, you might be keeping them after school when they get out of school. You know, the kids, you were keeping them. Now they're, you know, of course, they grow up.   But I think grandparents can play a key role in the lives of children. And the earlier it starts, the better. And even if they do live far away, you can still have contact.   Now we can do FaceTime. We can see them. They can see us.   You know, you can do that when they're four years old or three years old. So, I think having that kind of contact if they live away from you is really, really good. And you can even play games, you know, online with them at different stages and all.   So, the more you do when they're little to build a bond between them, the more likely they are when they get older to keep in contact with you. For example, my granddaughter, who is 25 now, she calls her grandmother, my wife, she calls her every Sunday afternoon at three o'clock. And if she, if something in her work schedule or whatever doesn't allow it, she'll send her a text and say, Grandma, I can't call you at three today, but I'm going to call you at five because of da-da-da-da-da.   That's absolutely wonderful, you know. And so, I think we build that relationship when they're young and chances are as grandparents, then we will have a positive contact with them as they grow up in the future. And again, we're not, we have to remember as grandparents, two things.   Number one, I'm not the parent. The parents are the ones who set the rules. But I am a grandparent.   And so, when they're at my house, I'm not going to violate the parent's rules. Whatever the rules are of the parents, that's okay. But we're going to do some things, you know, when we're together that maybe your parents don't do with you.   Maybe they don't take walks. Maybe they don't take you to the park. Again, depending on the age, you know.   But if you live close as they grow up, you try to stay involved in their activities. If they're into sports or if they're in a play at school, as grandparents, you try to go to those things, you know, which communicates to them, man, they care about me. So, the more you can be involved in their lives when they're young, the better the chances are that you will have a positive relationship with them when they get to be adults.   And again, I think grandparents can have a tremendous impact on their grandchildren.   Laura Dugger: (27:22 - 28:34) I completely agree and it's fascinating sometimes to see the same lesson that we're trying to teach as parents. Sometimes it just takes one grandparent to reiterate that or to share it and it clicks for our kids. So, there is a supernatural, even anointing, it seems, on that relationship.   Do you love The Savvy Sauce? Do you gain anything when you listen? Did you know that the two ways we earn money to keep this podcast live is through generous contributions from listeners?   And from our paying sponsors? That means we can promote your business and you're still supporting The Savvy Sauce. It's a win-win.   Please email us today at info at the SavvySauce.com to inquire about pricing for sponsoring each episode. Thank you for your consideration.   Is there also any research that you've come across for factors that set adult children up well to be healthy in their relationships and independent from relying on their parents and just well-adjusted overall?   Dr. Gary Chapman: (28:35 - 32:49) You know, I don't know specific research percentages and that sort of thing, but I do know that there's an awful lot of young adults today that are not mentally, physically, spiritually, emotionally healthy. And there's a lot of reasons for that because many young adults have grown up in homes where their parents divorced and that's had a tremendous impact on them. And loneliness is a pandemic on college campuses today all over the country where the students feel isolated.   They don't have not made friends at the university and they don't know how to have relationships. Many times, they've been on the cell phone and online. Their whole life is connected to the screen and they don't know, they don't have social skills.   They don't know how to have conversations. So, which is really sad. And sometimes grandparents can step in when parents maybe, you know, are for whatever reason not stepping in.   Sometimes, of course, one of the parents has died. Sometimes one of the parents has problems that limit what they can do. And grandparents can step in and be an adult figure who relates to this young adult and has an open door at their house.   You can always come to grandma's, you know, that kind of thing. So, it's a troubled, it's a troubled world for young adults today. And many times, they have a hard time getting a job and they move back home with their parents.   And, and because many of them can't afford an apartment. So, if they get a job, you know, and they can come back home and live with the parents, that's going to help them and make it possible for them to survive. And so, as parents, even though, you know, we all think of a time that we're going to have an empty nest, when they come back, see it as another opportunity just to have a positive impact on them.   But I would suggest that when they move back in that situation, you have conversations from the very beginning on how can we organize this now because you're an adult now. It's not like you're a child. But how can we organize it so that it's good for everybody and so that, you know, you feel good about it, we feel good about it.   Now, we're not going to charge you rent because we know that's, you know, but you are going to be back in the family now. So, let's think in terms of like, you know, what kind of chores could you do that would be helpful to us? And what can we do that would be helpful to you?   And let's talk about schedules and, you know, just talk about whatever you can think that you'd like to discuss so that each of you have an idea of how this is going to work rather than nobody talking about it, but the parents have ideas of what it ought to be like, but the adult child has ideas of what it ought to be like and they're different. And so, you end up in conflict with each other. Far better to have open conversations to start with .   And we can change it if we need to. We can talk about it again in two months and see if it's working or not working. But this is also teaching them a skill on how to relate to people because all of life they're going to be relating to people.   So, that can be a positive thing and not a negative thing. But, again, sometimes this becomes real contentious because the parents pictured one thing, the young adult pictures another thing, and it becomes an adversarial kind of situation.   Laura Dugger: (32:51 - 33:43) Well, and you even address that in your book. You share some guidelines for both parties. And so, I'll list these off.   Feel free to elaborate if there are any that you want to say more about. But you recommend clarifying those expectations and maintaining open communication, balancing freedom and responsibility, honoring your moral values I think you give, for instance, if you're a Christian and your adult child does not want to go to church or have their children go to church, how to navigate that, considering your own physical and mental health, setting time limits and goals, being pleasant and firm, and then you also talk about how to deal with anger. So, is there anything you'd want to elaborate on that?   Dr. Gary Chapman: (33:43 - 37:16) I think all of those things are important. You know, just remember now, as parents, it is your house and your moral values, you know, you want to have them respect that. For example, if you do not do alcohol at all, you need to say to them, now honey, you know that we don't drink alcohol if you think they do.   So, don't bring alcohol in the home. Okay? Can we just agree on that?   If you drink a beer, that's you, somewhere else, but don't do it here because we just don't like that. You know, that's fine. It's your house.   They're adults. So, and they'll respect that. They'll respect that.   So, I think, you know, and again, you just say, we're not going to make you go to church because you're an adult. That's your decision. If you would like to go to church, you know, there is a young adult group at our church that I think you might fit into and you might feel good about.   You know, you can try it out and see what you think. Or if you have a church that doesn't offer that, you can say, you know, I don't think our church has a young adult group, but there is a church in town that I understand has a really good young adult group. So, you might want to visit that church and kind of plug into that and see what you think.   You know, so we're not, again, demanding that they, you know, go to our church with us every Sunday, but we are trying to help them and give them some possibilities, you know, what they might do. So, all those things are really important. And I think setting some limits and goals also to say, how long do you think it might be before, I know you want to, I know you want to be independent.   Someday you may want to get married. I don't know, but how long do you think it might take before you would, you know, be able to, you know, find your own place or whatever? It doesn't matter to us, but I'm just thinking out loud with you so we can all kind of have some goals and things that we can have in the back of our minds.   We can change them later if we want to but talking to those kinds of things like that is helpful because both of you then have a framework in which to, you know, and maybe they're coming back. Maybe they drop out of college and they're back home because they don't have a job. They don't have anywhere to go.   And so to talk about, you know, maybe what could be done while you are here that might prepare you for a job, you know, and let them share the kind of job they might have an interest in and then see if there's a local technical school that's teaching, you know, people how to do that particular thing, you know, find out about it and say, well, you know, this course is available and we would be willing to pay for it if you'd be interested in doing that because if you have an interest, I understand it's a really good school and you're far more likely to get a job if you've had the training that they give over there, you know. So it may just be a year-long thing for, you know, training just one year, but helping them if they're struggling socially or relationally, mentally, then try to find whatever helps available in the community that they might plug into that could help them move toward being independent.   Laura Dugger: (37:16 - 37:38) I love that. Reaching maturity, independence, and then also you really did focus on the parents, the importance of them taking care of themselves and their marital relationship because that will change the dynamic if an adult child moves back in or if they move back in with their kids.   Dr. Gary Chapman: (37:38 - 38:59) Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. It's very different and I think as the parents, we don't want to spend time with each other silent, I mean, personally arguing with each other, you know, I just don't think we ought to do this now, you know.   Listen, listen, we're a team and this is our child. So, let's talk about what we're going to do. If we don't do it, what are we going to do?   We're going to let them live on the street. We're going to send them to the rescue mission. What are our options, you know, and what is the Christian thing to do?   So yeah, we likely will have different ideas. Husbands and wives will have different ideas of what we ought to do in those kinds of situations, but let's respect each other's ideas. Let's listen and try to see the world through their eyes and say, okay, I can see what you're saying.   I can see how that makes sense. And then, okay, how can we solve the problem? Because we want to be a team.   We want to keep our marriage growing. We don't want this to be a divisive thing in our marriage because we hope down the road they're going to be on their own, but we want our marriage to be good now and then, you know.   Laura Dugger: (39:00 - 39:12) So, to sum up this time together, do you have any additional words of encouragement or helpful do's and don'ts as we navigate this new part of parenting?   Dr. Gary Chapman: (39:14 - 42:07) I think one thing I would say to Christian parents is pray. The Bible says if you lack wisdom, ask God for wisdom. And all of us need wisdom.   And so, you just say, God, you know the situation, you know where we are, and we need your wisdom. You know we have our thoughts and our ideas, but what we really want to do is what is best in this situation for our child and for us. And we know that you can give us wisdom.   And the second thing I would say is read a book such as the one we're discussing. Because we're dealing with many common things in this. Read a book together about it.   And then, also talk to other parents maybe in your church, who have adult children who are moving home or whatever the situation is. And see how they're handling it. Because, you know, they may have found some things and discovered some things that would be very helpful to you.   Sometimes parents want to hide what's going on, especially if their child is making decisions and living a lifestyle that they don't want them to be living. They don't want to tell their friends about it. Because they think it puts them down as parents, that we failed, you know.   And I like to say to those parents, because many times here's what the parents say to me when their child is making a lifestyle decision that's not biblical. They'll say, Dr. Chapman, what did we do wrong? And I say, well, ask God if you did anything wrong.   God will tell you. And if you did, you can apologize. You can confess it to God.   You can apologize to your adult child. But let me remind you of this. God's first two children went wrong, and they had a perfect father.   So don't blame yourself for the decisions your adult children are making. Yes, none of us are perfect. And maybe you made some real bad decisions.   Then apologize to your adult child. But don't just assume that you are responsible for what they're doing. God makes his children free.   And as you know, a lot of God's children make poor decisions. God still loves them. And if they repent, God will forgive them.   But they suffer the consequences. Anytime we violate God's plans, we have to suffer. There are consequences.   So, yeah, those are just some of the things I would say to parents. But I do think that they'll find this book to be very helpful. It's very practical.   And I think they'll find it to be very helpful.   Laura Dugger: (42:08 - 42:24) Your teaching is always full of wisdom, full of practicality. And this isn't the only topic that you've written about or spoken about. And so where would you like to direct us after this chat so that we can learn more from all of your teaching?   Dr. Gary Chapman: (42:25 - 42:59) I would say go to the website 5lovelanguages.com. The number 5 and lovelanguages.com. And there you will find resources, all my books and so forth. You can receive a weekly email from me if you like.   And you can take a quiz on the love languages and other things. Just a lot of help at that website. My publisher actually runs that website for me.   But it's very, very helpful. So, you know, that's where I would encourage them to go.   Laura Dugger: (43:00 - 43:19) Wonderful. We'll add that link in the show notes for today's episode. And Dr. Chapman, you've been a repeat guest. So, you're familiar that we're called The Savvy Sauce because savvy is synonymous with practical knowledge. And so, as my final question for you today, what is your savvy sauce?   Dr. Gary Chapman: (43:22 - 44:41) I would say recognize the truth of what Jesus said as recorded in Matthew chapter 15, and verse 5. I think I'm right about that. Where he said, “I'm the vine. You're the branches. You stay connected to me. You bear fruit. Without me, you can do nothing.”   So just recognize your dependence on God. We may know a lot about a few things, but there's a whole bunch of stuff we don't know much about.   So just realize if you stay connected to God, have a daily quiet time with God in which you sit down and read a chapter in the Bible and ask God to speak to you. Or read a devotional book every morning with Scripture. You stay connected closely to God; you're going to bear fruit.   And tell God, without you, Lord, I can't do anything worthwhile. We won't. We can't do anything.‍ ‍   He gives us breath. We could be gone tomorrow. I can't do it without you.   I need your help. I need your wisdom. So, you stay connected closely to God.   You're going to not only survive, you're going to thrive.   Laura Dugger: (44:42 - 45:13) Well said. And it's great to witness someone who has been abiding in Christ and we're getting to enjoy that sweet fruit from the overflow of even your lifestyle and your guidance and your wisdom, Dr. Chapman. So, it's always such a joy to get to talk to you.   And I think my heart rate slows down every time we're having a conversation. You're so calm and peaceful. And I just really am grateful for you and appreciate you.   So, thank you for being my guest.   Dr. Gary Chapman: (45:14 - 45:25) Well, thank you. I always enjoy chatting with you. And thanks for what you're doing.   Because, you know, we take whatever we've got and try to help other people. And you're doing that. So, keep up the good work.   Laura Dugger: (45:25 - 48:42) Thank you. One more thing before you go. Have you heard the term gospel before?   It simply means good news. And I want to share the best news with you. But it starts with the bad news.   Every single one of us were born sinners. But Christ desires to rescue us from our sin, which is something we cannot do for ourselves. This means there is absolutely no chance we can make it to heaven on our own.   So, for you and for me, it means we deserve death and we can never pay back the sacrifice we owe to be saved. We need a Savior. But God loved us so much He made a way for His only Son to willingly die in our place as the perfect substitute.   This gives us hope of life forever in right relationship with Him. That is good news. Jesus lived the perfect life we could never live and died in our place for our sin.   This was God's plan to make a way to reconcile with us so that God can look at us and see Jesus. We can be covered and justified through the work Jesus finished if we choose to receive what He has done for us. Romans 10.9 says that if you confess with your mouth Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead you will be saved. So would you pray with me now? Heavenly Father, thank You for sending Jesus to take our place. I pray someone today, right now is touched and chooses to turn their life over to You.   Will You clearly guide them and help them take their next step in faith to declare You as Lord of their life? We trust You to work and change lives now for eternity. In Jesus' name we pray.   Amen. If you prayed that prayer you are declaring Him for me so me for Him. You get the opportunity to live your life for Him.   And at this podcast, we're called the Savvy Sauce for a reason. We want to give you practical tools to implement the knowledge you have learned. So you ready to get started?   First, tell someone. Say it out loud. Get a Bible.   The first day I made this decision, my parents took me to Barnes & Noble and let me choose my own Bible. I selected the Quest NIV Bible and I love it. You can start by reading the Book of John.   Also, get connected locally, which just means tell someone who's a part of a church in your community that you made a decision to follow Christ. I'm assuming they will be thrilled to talk with you about further steps such as going to church and getting connected to other believers to encourage you. We want to celebrate with you too, so feel free to leave a comment for us here if you did make a decision to follow Christ.   We also have show notes included where you can read Scripture that describes this process. And finally, be encouraged. Luke 15 10 says, In the same way I tell you, there is rejoicing in the presence of the angels of God over one sinner who repents.   The heavens are praising with you for your decision today. And if you've already received this good news, I pray you have someone to share it with. You are loved, and I look forward to meeting you here next time.

Dugouts, Dumbbells and Dingers is excited to bring you The Wake Forest Baseball Takeover, presented by Allegacy Financial. This week, we'll be joined by 13 players from the 2026 Demon Deacon baseball team to learn their stories and get the inside scoop on Wake Forest Baseball.Today, we're joined by RHP Marcelo Harsch and Evan Jones.The Wake Forest Baseball Takeover is presented by Allegacy Financial – where roots and relationships matterSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Dugouts, Dumbbells and Dingers is excited to bring you The Wake Forest Baseball Takeover, presented by Allegacy Financial. This week, we'll be joined by 13 players from the 2026 Demon Deacon baseball team to learn their stories and get the inside scoop on Wake Forest Baseball.Today, we're joined by RHPs Marcelo Harsch and Evan Jones.The Wake Forest Baseball Takeover is presented by Allegacy Financial. We're excited to partner with Allegacy. As you know., Allegacy has supported Wake Forest and it's student-athletes in many ways. We are thrilled to partner with them as they launch their new brand Allegacy Financial – where roots and relationships matterDugouts, Dumbbells and Dingers is sponsored by Homefield Apparel. They provide quality, thoughtful apparel for more than 200 colleges and universities across the coutry. Be sure to visit homefieldapparel.com for the best college baseball team gear you can find, including for the Gonzaga Bulldogs! Also, be sure to check out their Michigan and UCLA National Championship Collections, the Denim and Suede 90s Dad Hats for more than 100 schools, all the Gonzaga gear you could wish for, and more!3D is also in partnership with Backyard Baseball Bros, the creators of the Borgoball. Check out backyardbaseballbros.com for the various editions of the Borgoball on sale now! They've also got softballs available for sale, and their newest products, the BORGOBAT and BorgoZONE!See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Dugouts, Dumbbells and Dingers is excited to bring you The Wake Forest Baseball Takeover, presented by Allegacy Financial. This week, we'll be joined by 13 players from the 2026 Demon Deacon baseball team to learn their stories and get the inside scoop on Wake Forest Baseball.Today, we're joined by LHP Luke Schmolke and OF Javar Williams.The Wake Forest Baseball Takeover is presented by Allegacy Financial – where roots and relationships matterSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Dugouts, Dumbbells and Dingers is excited to bring you The Wake Forest Baseball Takeover, presented by Allegacy Financial. This week, we'll be joined by 13 players from the 2026 Demon Deacon baseball team to learn their stories and get the inside scoop on Wake Forest Baseball.Today, we're joined by RHP Luke Schmolke and Outfielder Javar Williams.The Wake Forest Baseball Takeover is presented by Allegacy Financial. We're excited to partner with Allegacy. As you know., Allegacy has supported Wake Forest and it's student-athletes in many ways. We are thrilled to partner with them as they launch their new brand Allegacy Financial – where roots and relationships matterDugouts, Dumbbells and Dingers is sponsored by Homefield Apparel. They provide quality, thoughtful apparel for more than 200 colleges and universities across the coutry. Be sure to visit homefieldapparel.com for the best college baseball team gear you can find, including for the Gonzaga Bulldogs! Also, be sure to check out their Michigan and UCLA National Championship Collections, the Denim and Suede 90s Dad Hats for more than 100 schools, all the Gonzaga gear you could wish for, and more!3D is also in partnership with Backyard Baseball Bros, the creators of the Borgoball. Check out backyardbaseballbros.com for the various editions of the Borgoball on sale now! They've also got softballs available for sale, and their newest products, the BORGOBAT and BorgoZONE!See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Dugouts, Dumbbells and Dingers is excited to bring you The Wake Forest Baseball Takeover, presented by Allegacy Financial. This week, we'll be joined by 13 players from the 2026 Demon Deacon baseball team to learn their stories and get the inside scoop on Wake Forest Baseball.Today, we're joined by INF JD Stein, RHP Troy Dressler, and RHP Tyler Wood.The Wake Forest Baseball Takeover is presented by Allegacy Financial – where roots and relationships matter See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Dugouts, Dumbbells and Dingers is excited to bring you The Wake Forest Baseball Takeover, presented by Allegacy Financial. This week, we'll be joined by 13 players from the 2026 Demon Deacon baseball team to learn their stories and get the inside scoop on Wake Forest Baseball.Today, we're joined by RHPs Troy Dressler and Tyler Wood, as well as infielder JD Stein.The Wake Forest Baseball Takeover is presented by Allegacy Financial. We're excited to partner with Allegacy. As you know., Allegacy has supported Wake Forest and it's student-athletes in many ways. We are thrilled to partner with them as they launch their new brand Allegacy Financial – where roots and relationships matterDugouts, Dumbbells and Dingers is sponsored by Homefield Apparel. They provide quality, thoughtful apparel for more than 200 colleges and universities across the coutry. Be sure to visit homefieldapparel.com for the best college baseball team gear you can find, including for the Gonzaga Bulldogs! Also, be sure to check out their Michigan and UCLA National Championship Collections, the Denim and Suede 90s Dad Hats for more than 100 schools, all the Gonzaga gear you could wish for, and more!3D is also in partnership with Backyard Baseball Bros, the creators of the Borgoball. Check out backyardbaseballbros.com for the various editions of the Borgoball on sale now! They've also got softballs available for sale, and their newest products, the BORGOBAT and BorgoZONE!See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Dugouts, Dumbbells and Dingers, the Wake Forest Sports Network and LEARFIELD are excited to bring you The Wake Forest Baseball Takeover, presented by Allegacy Financial. This week, we'll be joined by 13 players from the 2026 Demon Deacon baseball team to learn their stories and get the inside scoop on Wake Forest Baseball.Today, we're joined by CMatt Conte, RHP Cam Bagwell, and LHP Zach Johnston.The Wake Forest Baseball Takeover is presented by Allegacy Financial - where roots and relationships matter.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Advanced Placement exams represent some of the most challenging subject-specific standardized tests a high schooler might ever take. Amy and Mike believe that every test warrants smart, serious preparation, so we invited educator Leann Westin to share valuable strategies, insights, and resources for getting ready for the AP Biology exam. What are five things you will learn in this episode? What is tested on the AP Biology exam? How is the AP Biology exam structured and scored? What are the highest priority topics on the tests? How should students prepare for the AP Biology exam? What are the best prep materials for AP Biology? MEET OUR GUEST Leann Westin is a Master Tutor at Open Door Education in Massachusetts, where she also serves as the Tutor Success Coordinator. Leann earned a BS in biology with a minor in Spanish from Wake Forest University, and she specializes in biology, environmental science, statistics, SAT/ACT prep, and organizational coaching. Leann has over a decade of full-time experience helping students prepare for the AP Biology exam through both one-on-one tutoring and small group classes. Her favorite AP Biology topics to teach are evolution and ecology. Outside of her work at Open Door, Leann has been an education volunteer at her local zoo for almost a decade, and she enjoys helping people better understand the natural world.  Leann can be reached at https://opendoor.education. LINKS AP Biology Exam AP Biology Exam – AP Students AP Biology (Pearson Education AP) by Fred W. Holtzclaw; Theresa Knapp Holtzclaw AP Biology — bozemanscience RELATED EPISODES BIG CHANGES TO AP TESTS IN 2025 THE RISE IN AP TESTING CHOOSING BETWEEN AP AND IB PROGRAMS ABOUT THIS PODCAST Tests and the Rest is THE college admissions industry podcast. Explore all of our episodes on the show page. ABOUT YOUR HOSTS Mike Bergin is the president of Chariot Learning and founder of TestBright, Roots2Words, and College Eagle. Amy Seeley is the president of Seeley Test Pros and LEAP. If you're interested in working with Mike and/or Amy for test preparation, training, or consulting, get in touch through our contact page.  

Dugouts, Dumbbells and Dingers is excited to bring you The Wake Forest Baseball Takeover, presented by Allegacy Financial. This week, we'll be joined by 13 players from the 2026 Demon Deacon baseball team to learn their stories and get the inside scoop on Wake Forest Baseball.Today, we're joined by RHP Cameron Bagwell, LHP Zach "Slim" Johnston and Catcher Matt Conte.The Wake Forest Baseball Takeover is presented by Allegacy Financial. We're excited to partner with Allegacy. As you know., Allegacy has supported Wake Forest and it's student-athletes in many ways. We are thrilled to partner with them as they launch their new brand Allegacy Financial – where roots and relationships matterDugouts, Dumbbells and Dingers is sponsored by Homefield Apparel. They provide quality, thoughtful apparel for more than 200 colleges and universities across the coutry. Be sure to visit homefieldapparel.com for the best college baseball team gear you can find, including for the Gonzaga Bulldogs! Also, be sure to check out their Michigan and UCLA National Championship Collections, the Denim and Suede 90s Dad Hats for more than 100 schools, all the Gonzaga gear you could wish for, and more!3D is also in partnership with Backyard Baseball Bros, the creators of the Borgoball. Check out backyardbaseballbros.com for the various editions of the Borgoball on sale now! They've also got softballs available for sale, and their newest products, the BORGOBAT and BorgoZONE!See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

On-Location Interview with Professor David Yamane, Author of Gun Curious, from the 2026 SHOT Show in Las Vegas. David Yamane is the author of Gun Curious: A Liberal Professor's Surprising Journey Inside America's Gun Culture. A sociology professor at Wake Forest University, David is an internationally recognized scholarly authority on guns in America and a calming voice in our divisive national argument on the issue. An Asian American and lifelong liberal from the San Francisco Bay Area, Yamane became a first-time gun owner as a 42-year-old and began a 12-year journey into the complex world of firearms in America. Having one foot outside and one inside gun culture allows him to speak with compassion across our paralyzing differences. SHOT Show (Shooting, Hunting, Outdoor Trade Show) is an annual event held in Las Vegas, primarily for professionals in the firearms, ammunition, and outdoor industries. The National Shooting Sports Foundation (NSSF) hosts this event, which is one of the largest trade shows of its kind, where manufacturers, dealers, and enthusiasts gather to showcase new products, network, and discuss industry trends. The show features everything from firearms and accessories to outdoor gear and survival tools, drawing thousands of attendees from around the world. Originally Aired 4.21.26

Dugouts, Dumbbells and Dingers, the Wake Forest Sports Network and LEARFIELD are excited to bring you The Wake Forest Baseball Takeover, presented by Allegacy Financial. This week, we'll be joined by 13 players from the 2026 Demon Deacon baseball team to learn their stories and get the inside scoop on Wake Forest Baseball.Today, we're joined by RHPs Duncan Marsten and Will Ray, as well as switch-hitting slugger Dalton Wentz.The Wake Forest Baseball Takeover is presented by Allegacy Financial - where roots and relationships matter.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Dugouts, Dumbbells and Dingers is excited to bring you The Wake Forest Baseball Takeover, presented by Allegacy Financial. This week, we'll be joined by 13 players from the 2026 Demon Deacon baseball team to learn their stories and get the inside scoop on Wake Forest Baseball. Today, we're joined by RHPs Duncan Marsten and Will Ray, as well as the switch-hitting slugger Dalton Wentz. The Wake Forest Baseball Takeover is presented by Allegacy Financial. We're excited to partner with Allegacy. As you know., Allegacy has supported Wake Forest and it's student-athletes in many ways. We are thrilled to partner with them as they launch their new brand Allegacy Financial – where roots and relationships matterDugouts, Dumbbells and Dingers is sponsored by Homefield Apparel. They provide quality, thoughtful apparel for more than 200 colleges and universities across the coutry. Be sure to visit homefieldapparel.com for the best college baseball team gear you can find, including for the Gonzaga Bulldogs! Also, be sure to check out their Michigan and UCLA National Championship Collections, the Denim and Suede 90s Dad Hats for more than 100 schools, all the Gonzaga gear you could wish for, and more!3D is also in partnership with Backyard Baseball Bros, the creators of the Borgoball. Check out backyardbaseballbros.com for the various editions of the Borgoball on sale now! They've also got softballs available for sale, and their newest products, the BORGOBAT and BorgoZONE!See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Read the full transcript here. Is dishonesty best understood as a permanent feature of human nature or as a condition that worsens when incentives and tools change? When new technologies make cheating easier and detection harder, do they merely reveal existing character or actively reshape it? How much of moral behavior depends less on values than on friction, surveillance, and the perceived odds of getting caught? Is the deepest threat of AI enabled cheating that people deceive more, or that they stop believing sincerity can be known at all? If most people are not chronic liars, why do so many people still cheat when the opportunity is clean and the cost is low? Do people mainly avoid dishonesty because they are virtuous, or because they want to preserve a workable image of themselves as virtuous? Why do so many moral failures seem to stop at the point where self justification breaks down? If people cheat only a little, is that evidence of conscience or merely evidence of strategic moderation? Why do reminders of honor, vows, and identity sometimes reduce cheating even when enforcement is absent? Does honesty depend less on abstract principle than on whether a situation activates the right self conception? How much of morality is really a contest between temptation and the stories we need to tell ourselves about who we are? If truth telling is cognitively easier than lying, why are human beings still so vulnerable to deception? Do we default to honesty because we are moral, or because truth is usually simpler, cheaper, and less mentally demanding? If we are biased toward assuming others are truthful, is that a moral achievement or a practical shortcut that civilization depends on? Links: Christian's New Book: The Honesty Crisis: Preserving Our Most Treasured Virtue in an Increasingly Dishonest World Christian's Website Christian B. Miller is the A.C. Reid Professor of Philosophy at Wake Forest University. He lives in Winston-Salem, North Carolina with his wife and three children. His research primarily has to do with virtue and moral character, and he is the former leader of The Character Project, one of the largest research projects in the world on these topics. Staff Spencer Greenberg — Host + Director Ryan Kessler — Producer + Technical Lead WeAmplify — Transcriptionists Igor Scaldini — Marketing Consultant Music Broke for Free Josh Woodward Lee Rosevere Quiet Music for Tiny Robots wowamusic zapsplat.com Affiliates Clearer Thinking GuidedTrack Mind Ease Positly UpLift [Read more]

Katie Henry brings two decades of healthcare management experience to Identity Clark County's board of directors. The Vancouver Clinic CEO previously led Austin Regional Clinic through 13 capital projects and 50% patient growth. Henry holds a juris doctorate from Wake Forest University and serves on the American Medical Group Association executive committee. Identity Clark County represents 110 influential business leaders advocating for community development across the region. https://www.clarkcountytoday.com/people/identity-clark-county-appoints-katie-henry-to-board/ #IdentityClarkCounty #VancouverClinic #BusinessLeadership #Healthcare #ClarkCounty #Vancouver #CEO #BoardAppointment #CommunityLeaders #BusinessAdvocacy

Lilias Trotter was a woman who did not fit the mold of her Victorian era. Born in 1853 into upper-class England, she was an exceptionally gifted artist mentored by John Ruskin, one of the most prominent art critics of her time. Yet, rather than pursuing conventional success and artistic fame, she chose a path of surrender—one that blended beauty, compassion, and deep spiritual vocation. She has much to teach us about a life of joyful surrender to God's gentle leading.Did you know? Lilias Trotter inspired the famous hymn, Fix Your Eyes Upon Jesus – yes, so that “all things will grow strangely dim in the light of His glory and grace.”Stephanie welcomes Jennifer Trafton, who just released “If only we could see”, a wonderful new biography of Lilias Trotter. Jennifer explains how she became captivated with Lilias, whose “adventurous, interesting, fascinating life” radiated with childlike delight, generosity, and profound love for God. Victorian artist and missionary Lilias Trotter teaches us much about the practice of “seeing”—both literally and spiritually— and how it transforms us and the world around us.Lilias's training as an artist under Ruskin taught her to “see well”—not just the details of nature, but the overlooked people in her society. She moved from painting to working with the most impoverished communities in London, especially young women vulnerable in the city. In partnership with movements like the YWCA and revivalist preacher D.L. Moody, Lilias dedicated herself to listening, serving, and providing safety and practical help for working-class girls and women subject to exploitation and trafficking.Her artistry was inseparable from her love for people. This “way of seeing”—attentive, joyful, and present—became her creative and spiritual calling. Lilias's vision challenges us to integrate our gifts and passions into practical love for others.A key metaphor for Lilias's life is the dandelion—“full face to the sun” (representing Christ), then surrendered as seeds blown by the wind of the Holy Spirit to places and purposes beyond our control. Lilias did not chase worldly success. Lilias believed in offering her life freely to God, trusting Him to use every skill, experience, or seeming detour for His glory. The measure of a “successful life” is not accomplishment or recognition, but faithfulness and openness to the Spirit.The lesson of Lilias's life is that we are all called to both see others as Christ sees them, and to rest in the assurance that we ourselves are fully seen and loved by God. Her legacy is less about artistic fame and more about the deep creative, transformative hospitality she brought to every relationship.Lilias Trotter's “beautiful life” continues to inspire because she shows that to be fully present, fully surrendered, and fully attentive is to live in step with God's purposes. Whether you're an artist or not, her story invites you to open your eyes and your life, so that God's glory and gladness shine out through you, in Christ Jesus.Next Steps for You!·         Practice seeing: Pay attention—to beauty, to overlooked people, to God's presence in the present moment.·         Surrender your gifts: Offer your unique talents, passions, and opportunities to God without demanding a particular outcome.·         Root yourself in your belovedness through Christ: Know that, like Lilias, your worth is secure in being seen by God—which frees you to serve, love, and see others anew.·         Let your life be scattered as seed, trusting Christ's Holy Spirit to bear fruit, however and whenever God chooses.MORE ABOUT “IF ONLY WE COULD SEE”“God only knows the endless possibilities that lie enfolded in each of us.” – Lilias TrotterIn the late 19th century, Lilias Trotter stood at the threshold of artistic fame, her extraordinary talent praised by the renowned critic John Ruskin. Yet, at the height of her promise, she made a radical choice that would define the course of her life. Turning away from worldly recognition and social convention, she forged her own path—one that led her through the roughest streets of London and, ultimately, to the deserts of North Africa. There, her artistic and spiritual journeys intertwined as she expanded the many-colored canvas of her creativity to embrace not only the sweeping vistas of the Sahara, but also the lives of the Arab people she loved.Blending biography, personal engagement, and theological reflection, Trafton takes readers on an intimate journey with Lily as her friends knew her – a visionary who saw the world with an artist's eye and a missionary's heart, and whose imaginative empathy and creative compassion transformed the lives of those she encountered. More than the story of one remarkable woman, this book is an invitation to experience the beauty of creation with fresh wonder, to look at our neighbors through new lenses, and to discover what “beautiful possible life” awaits each one of us as we follow the call of the Divine Artist.MORE ABOUT JENNIFER TRAFTONJennifer Trafton is a storyteller and artist with a passion for exploring the intersections of faith, creativity, and the arts. She studied church history and theology at Wake Forest University, Gordon-Conwell Theological Seminary, and Duke University, focusing on the 19th-century writer George MacDonald and his influence on Christian views of the imagination. After serving as managing editor of Christian History & Biography magazine and a curriculum writer and editor for the StoneWorks Global Arts Initiative, she has been a regular conference speaker, writer, teacher, editor, and illustrator for the Nashville-based Rabbit Room creative community for over a decade. Her first two novels for children, The Rise and Fall of Mount Majestic and Henry and the Chalk Dragon, received starred reviews and multiple award nominations, and she has since collaborated on or contributed to a wide array of projects including The Wingfeather Tales, The Lost Tales of Sir Galahad, Every Moment Holy, Vol. III: The Work of the People, and J. R. R. Tolkien and the Arts: A Theology of Subcreation. She recently illustrated Glad and Golden Hours: A Companion for Advent and Christmastide by Lanier Ivester (Rabbit Room Press, 2024).“Delight yourself in the Lord, and He will give you the desires of your heart.” Psalm 37:4 isn't a poetic suggestion — it's a promise. But many believers quietly assume it doesn't really work, or it's not really possible – or they've kinda lost sight of it along the way.In "Awaken Delight," I'm inviting you to rediscover what Scripture actually means by delight in God— not emotional hype, not religious performance, but a steady satisfaction rooted in who God is. Through biblical theology and practical rhythms, you will learn how communion with God reshapes suffering, quiets restless striving, and anchors your identity in something unshakable."Awaken Delight" is a theologically grounded spiritual formation book for thoughtful believers who feel spiritually fatigued, and ready to embrace the reality of Psalm 37:4.Find out more at https://www.gospelspice.com/awakendelight Support us on Gospel Spice, PayPal and Venmo!

Why is copper being called the most important metal you're not investing in? Because the electrification of everything — EVs, AI data centers, global infrastructure — is creating unprecedented demand, while supply struggles to keep up. That's what Allen Cates, CEO of Kilo Reserve and former finance executive, helps investors understand. In this conversation, Allen shares why real assets like copper are being overlooked, what's driving the coming shortage, and how physical copper could play a role in a modern portfolio. Join host Khudania Ajay (KAJ) to discover what most investors are missing — and why the next decade of investing may belong to real assets. Explore copper and commodities at https://kajmasterclass.com.=========================================*Guest*Allen Cates is the CEO of Kilo Reserve, a platform that enables investors to own vaulted physical copper and, over time, other industrial metals and commodities. He began his career in financial services after earning a degree in Economics from Wake Forest University and an MBA from Manchester Business School. Allen spent nearly a decade at Bank of America and PNC Bank in strategy and lending roles before moving into entrepreneurship and investment. Over the past two decades, he has worked across consumer businesses, e-commerce, financial investment, and hard assets, developing a focus on commodities and real asset markets.Connect:https://kiloreserve.comhttps://www.linkedin.com/in/allen-cates-675371/=========================================*Host — Khudania Ajay (KAJ)*Independent journalist | 20+ years in media, leadership & storytelling | 2,500+ long-form conversations

Today with us on the Incite Change Podcast, Coach Mauro sits down with Zachary Dancel.   Zachary Daniel is the Chief Operating Officer of Nava Health, where he helps lead a movement towards more proactive, personalized, and longevity-focused healthcare.   His path into the health space wasn't traditional; it was personal. After his mother became severely ill and was failed by conventional medical care, Zach and his family turned to functional medicine in search of answers. That experience not only helped restore her health but also reshaped his entire perspective on how healthcare should work, focusing on root causes, not just symptoms.   Before stepping into the world of health and business, Zach was a Division I football athlete, earning full scholarships to the University of Maryland and Wake Forest University. The discipline, resilience, and accountability he developed through sport now fuel his leadership style and philosophy.   Today, he is passionate about helping people take ownership of their health, encouraging a shift away from reactive care towards prevention, data-driven decisions, and strong daily habits. His core message is simple but powerful: take control, stay consistent and become the CEO of your own health. Episode Timestamps ●        [01:02] How It All Began ●        [10:03] The System vs The Patient ●        [21:23] Zach's Personal Journey ●        [29:32] From NFL aspirations to Business Leadership ●        [34:02] Begin with a Starter Pack ●        [41:54] Road to Longevity ●        [47:06] Peptides ●        [53:10] Become the CEO of your Health Resources Mentioned ●        Nava Health  ●        Instagram: @zachdancel ●        Zach Dancel Quotes [Zach] "You have to become the CEO of your own health."   [Zach] "You can't be upset for the results that you didn't get for the work that you didn't put in."   [Zach] "Your body is telling you something, listen."   Thanks so much for tuning in. Join us again next week for another episode! Contact us! If you would like to get in touch, leave us a comment! Visit our website - www.healthyincite.com Follow us on Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/incitecoaching/?hl=en Like us on Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/incitecoaching/   

 In this episode Derek talks with Melissa Proctor, Executive Vice President & CMO of the Atlanta Hawks. Melissa, the author of the book “From Ball Girl to CMO”, shares her inspiring personal story and recipes for ongoing success.BiographyMelissa Proctor began her NBA experience in highschool as the first ball girl for the Miami Heat. After highschool, she attended Wake Forest University where she got her Bachelor's degree in communications and her masters degree in design studies/branding from Central Saint Martins College of Art and Design at The London Institute. After obtaining her degree, she went on to work for Turner Broadcasting System, Inc. serving in senior brand development and strategy leadership positions. Proctor was with Turner for 9 years before moving on to the Atlanta Hawks as VP of brand strategy. She quickly made her way up and is now the executive vice president and chief marketing officer.Order Melissa's new book here: https://melissamproctor.com/Business Leadership Series Intro and Outro music provided by Just Off Turner: https://music.apple.com/za/album/the-long-walk-back/268386576

In this sidebar episode Garth interviews Melissa Maffeo from Wake Forest University. They discuss Melissa's new book with Cambridge University Press, "The Science of the Supernatural: Critical Thinking for the Mind and Brain," which grew out of a Wake Forest special-topics course. Melissa explains anomalistic psychology's skeptical, research-methods approach in contrast to parapsychology, and outlines book chapters on the neurobiology and psychology of fear, why people seek scary experiences, ghosts and electromagnetic fluctuations, nighttime phenomena like sleep paralysis, alien abduction and false memory, psychics and tarot (including her own reading), psychedelics and mystical experiences, and "real" supernatural-seeming cases like rabies, toxoplasmosis, and "zombies." She discusses her own nonbeliever perspective, a memorable coincidence from a paranormal investigation, intended broad accessibility and course use, where to buy the book, attending ACT, and advice for aspiring authors. [Note. Portions of the show notes were generated by Descript AI.]

Michael Lester is a decorated U.S. Marine Corps combat pilot, cybersecurity educator, and author who has spent his career operating at the intersection of military power, technology, and national security. A graduate of the United States Naval Academy and a member of MENSA, Lester also holds a master's degree in Electrical Engineering from the Naval Postgraduate School and an MBA, giving him a rare blend of technical expertise and strategic insight. During his military career, Lester flew combat missions across Asia and the Middle East, witnessing firsthand the realities of modern warfare and U.S. foreign policy. After his operational service, he returned to Annapolis to teach electrical engineering and leadership at the U.S. Naval Academy, helping shape the next generation of naval officers. Today, Lester continues his work in national security and technology as an adjunct professor teaching graduate-level cybersecurity at St. Mary's University and Wake Forest University. He is also the founder of IronClad Family, a company focused on protecting families and individuals from digital threats, identity theft, and modern information warfare. Over the past two decades, Lester has conducted an extensive independent investigation into U.S. foreign policy after noticing a stark contrast between what he witnessed overseas and what was presented to the public at home. That research culminated in his book *We Are the Bad Guys: How the U.S. Wages War, Controls Economies, and Calls It Freedom*, a controversial examination of American military intervention, economic influence, and global power structures. With the launch of Operation Epic Fury on February 28, global tensions and strategic maneuvering have once again taken center stage, making Lester's analysis of geopolitical strategy and modern warfare more relevant than ever. Follow the market here: https://polymarket.com/event/will-the-us-invade-iran-by-march-31 Join the waitlist: https://theglacierapp.com/waitlist Shawn Ryan Show Sponsors: Get firearm security redesigned and save 10% off at StopBoxUSA with code SRS at https://www.stopboxusa.com/SRS #stopboxpod Visit https://mauinuivenison.com/srs for a free 6-pack of the jerky sticks with your first order. Go right now to https://sundaysfordogs.com/SRS50 and get 50% off your first order. Get started with Claude today at https://Claude.ai/srs Michael Lester Links: LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/mtlester Books - https://michaeltlester.com IronClad Family - https://www.ironcladfamily.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Half a million dollars in hamster balls. What if you spotted a gap in a market that hadn't changed in 50 years and turned it into a fast-growing product business while still in college? That's exactly what Ethan Haber did with Happy Habitats, a small pet products company he started as a sophomore at Wake Forest University. While watching his hamster Mooksy roll around in a standard hamster ball on campus, Ethan looked over and saw someone walking a dog. The thought hit him: why can't I walk my hamster? That simple question launched a product line now heading into 1,500 stores nationwide through a major big-box retail deal. Ethan's story covers everything from cold-emailing a design firm and navigating COVID shipping delays, to cracking Amazon and landing a mentorship with the founder of PetSmart — all from a niche that most people overlook. Tune in to Episode 729 of the Side Hustle Show to learn: how to take an existing product and improve upon it to create a defensible business what it really takes to get your product into retail stores and online marketplaces why patents, packaging, and the right partners matter more than most first-time founders realize Full Show Notes: $500,000 in Hamster Ball Sales? How a College Student Brought a New Product to Life New to the Show? Get your personalized money-making playlist ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠here⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠! Sponsors: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Indeed⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ – Start hiring NOW with a $75 sponsored job credit to upgrade your job post! ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Quo (formerly OpenPhone)⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ — Get 20% off of your first 6 months! ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Shopify⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ — Sign up for a $1 per month trial! Gusto — Get 3 months free of the leading payroll, benefits, and HR provider for modern small businesses! About The Side Hustle Show This is the entrepreneurship podcast you can actually apply! The award-winning small business show covers the best side hustles and ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠side hustle ideas⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠. We share how to start a business and ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠make money online⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ and offline, including online business, side gigs, freelancing, marketing, sales funnels, investing, and much more. Join 100,000+ listeners and get legit business ideas and ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠passive income⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ strategies straight to your earbuds. No BS, just actionable tips on how to start and grow your side hustle. Hosted by Nick Loper of ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Side Hustle Nation⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠.

1 Timothy 4:8 NIV “For physical training is of some value, but godliness has value for all things, holding promise for both the present life and the life to come.”   *Transcription Below*   Brian Smith, author of The Christian Athlete: Glorifying God in Sports, is a staff member with Athletes in Action and a cross-country coach at Lowell High School. A former collegiate runner at Wake Forest University, he earned a BA in Communications and Journalism before completing his MA in Theology and Sports Studies at Baylor University's Truett Theological Seminary. Brian lives in Lowell, MI with his wife and three children. You can find him on Twitter @BrianSmithAIA.   Ed Uszynski is an author, speaker, and sports minister with over three decades' experience discipling college and professional athletes. With a heart for reconciliation and justice, he also works as a racial literacy consultant and marriage conference speaker, blending Biblical wisdom with practical living in the midst of complex cultural realities. He has two theological degrees from Trinity Evangelical Divinity School and a PhD in American Culture Studies from Bowling Green State University. He and his wife Amy have four children and live in Xenia, Ohio.   The Christian Athlete Website   Thank You to Our Sponsor:  Sam Leman Eureka   Questions and Topics We Cover: What is one of kids' greatest game day complaints?  Is it true that young athletic success is a predictor of adult athletic success? What are a few tips for instilling a heart of gratitude in our young athlete, rather than entitlement?   Related Savvy Sauce Episode: 230 Intentional Parenting in All The Stages with Dr. Rob Rienow   Connect with The Savvy Sauce on Facebook or Instagram or Our Website   Gospel Scripture: (all NIV) Romans 3:23 “for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,”   Romans 3:24 “and are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus.”   Romans 3:25 (a) “God presented him as a sacrifice of atonement, through faith in his blood.”    Hebrews 9:22 (b) “without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness.”    Romans 5:8 “But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us.”    Romans 5:11 “Not only is this so, but we also rejoice in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received reconciliation.”    John 3:16 “For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.”   Romans 10:9 “That if you confess with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.”    Luke 15:10 says “In the same way, I tell you, there is rejoicing in the presence of the angels of God over one sinner who repents.”   Romans 8:1 “Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus”   Ephesians 1:13–14 “And you also were included in Christ when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation. Having believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God's possession- to the praise of his glory.”   Ephesians 1:15–23 “For this reason, ever since I heard about your faith in the Lord Jesus and your love for all the saints, I have not stopped giving thanks for you, remembering you in my prayers. I keep asking that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the glorious Father, may give you the spirit of wisdom and revelation, so that you may know him better. I pray also that the eyes of your heart may be enlightened in order that you may know the hope to which he has called you, the riches of his glorious inheritance in the saints, and his incomparably great power for us who believe. That power is like the working of his mighty strength, which he exerted in Christ when he raised him from the dead and seated him at his right hand in the heavenly realms, far above all rule and authority, power and dominion, and every title that can be given, not only in the present age but also in the one to come. And God placed all things under his feet and appointed him to be head over everything for the church, which is his body, the fullness of him who fills everything in every way.”   Ephesians 2:8–10 “For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith – and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God – not by works, so that no one can boast. For we are God‘s workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.“   Ephesians 2:13 “But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far away have been brought near through the blood of Christ.“   Philippians 1:6 “being confident of this, that he who began a good work in you will carry it on to completion until the day of Christ Jesus.”   *Transcription*   Music: (0:00 – 0:11)   Laura Dugger: (0:12 - 1:51) Welcome to The Savvy Sauce, where we have practical chats for intentional living. I'm your host, Laura Dugger, and I'm so glad you're here.   The principles of honesty and integrity that Sam Leman founded his business on continue today, over 55 years later, at Sam Leman Chevrolet Eureka.   Owned and operated by the Bertschi family, Sam Leman and Eureka appreciates the support they've received from their customers all over Central Illinois and beyond. Visit them today at lemangm.com.   Brian Smith and Ed Uszynski are my guests for today.   They are co-authors of this recent amazing book entitled, A Way Game, A Christian Parents Guide to Navigating Youth Sports. And from the very beginning, I was captivated, even with one of the endorsements from Matt Martens, who's the president and CEO of Awana, and he summed it up this way, A Way Game provides a much needed perspective shift on one of the most sacred idols in our culture, youth sports. So, Brian and Ed are all for youth sports, and yet you're going to hear there's a different way to approach it than what we've been trained in culture.   And they're going to share some wonderful and very practical insights. I can't wait to share this with you. Here's our chat. Welcome to The Savvy Sauce, Ed and Brian.   Ed Uszynski & Brian Smith: (1:51 - 1:54) Thanks for having us, Laura. Yeah, good to be here, Laura.   Laura Dugger: (1:54 - 2:04) So, excited about this chat. And will the two of you just start us off by sharing your family's stage of life and your involvement in sports?   Brian Smith: (2:05 - 3:29) Yeah, there could be a lot on the back end of that question. I'll start with sports, then get into family. I've been involved in sports my entire life, played every sport imaginable growing up, got cut from just about every single sport my freshman year of high school, ended up running track and cross country because it was the only sports that you could not get cut from at my high school.   And I ended up being pretty good at it by the time I was a senior, won some state championships, ended up getting a scholarship to run at Wake Forest University. So, I did that for four years right out of college. I coached a little bit collegiately.   Soon after that, I joined staff with a sports ministry called Athletes in Action that Ed and I have a combined 50 years with Athletes in Action. And really, that's been my life ever since. I've been ministering to college and pro athletes, discipling them, helping them figure out what does that actually look like to integrate faith in sport.   Even today, I live in Grand Rapids, Michigan. I coach high school cross country while I'm still on staff with Athletes in Action. I have a middle school Bible study that I run on Wednesday mornings.   Been married to my wife, who I actually met in high school. She was a distance runner too, and she ran at Wisconsin. So, we've been married for 20 years.   We have three kids, a high schooler, a middle schooler, and an elementary schooler who are all involved in sport at some level, some way, shape, or form.   Laura Dugger: (3:30 - 3:34) Wow, that's incredible. Thank you, Brian. And Ed, what about you?   Ed Uszynski: (3:34 - 5:04) Well, my story is very parallel to Brian's, just different sports and some different numbers. Just tack on 15 years. Yeah, I was a basketball player.   Grew up on the west side of Cleveland with a high school football coach. My dad was, but I was a basketball player. I played at high levels all the way through my 20s, got to play overseas.   I mean, this was a long time ago, but I got everything I could out of that sport. And as soon as I graduated from college, though, I started to work with that Athletes in Action ministry that Brian mentioned. So, I've been working with college and professional athletes for 34 years now.   And same, coached at different levels, have four kids. Amy and I have been married for 26 years. We have four kids, three are in college, and one's in ninth grade, who has a game this afternoon, actually.   So, we've just been going to games and have been involved in going to sports stuff for the last 20 years with our kids. And really what happened with Brian, and I is that we looked up a decade ago and realized this youth sports thing was a fast train that was moving in directions that we weren't used to ourselves, even though we've been around sports our whole life. It's like, there's something different happening now.   And then thinking about it as Christians, like, how do we do this well as Christ followers? We don't want to separate from it. We don't want to just go for the ride. How do we do this as Christian people? And that's what got us talking about it and eventually led to this book.   Laura Dugger: (5:05 - 5:23) Well, the book was easy to read and incredible. And I'd like to start there where you begin, even where you go back before going forward. So, when you're looking back, what are the factors at play that changed youth sports over time?   Ed Uszynski: (5:26 - 6:17) Well, I'll say this and then Brian, maybe you jump in and throw a couple of them out there. I mean, youth sports is a $40 billion industry today, which is wild to think about. It's four times how much money gets spent on the NFL, which is just staggering.   I can't even hardly believe that that's true, but it is. And it's really just in the last 20 years that that's happened. I mean, 50 years ago, you couldn't have had the youth sport industrial complex, as we refer to it.   You couldn't have had it. There were a bunch of things that had to happen culturally, as is true with any new movement or any paradigm shift that happens in culture. You've got to have certain things be true all at the same time that make it possible.   So, Brian, what were a couple of those? Again, I'll throw it over to you. There's six of them that we talk about in the book. And I think it's really fascinating because I'm a history guy.   Brian Smith: (6:18 - 8:40) Yeah. And we can obviously double click on any of these, Laura, that you want to, but we talk about how the college admissions process became an avenue where youth sports parents saw, man, if we can get our kids involved in some extracurriculars and kind of tag on high level athlete to their resume, it actually helps with the college admissions process. And so even the idea of college scholarships became an opportunity for youth sports parents to get their kids involved.   And then, yeah, maybe sports can actually get them into college. We talk about the economic shifts that happen, the rise of safetyism and helicopter parenting. ESPN was a massive one in 1979.   This thing called ESPN starts, and we get 24-7 coverage of sports, which they started exploring even early on. What does it look like to give coverage to something like Little League World Series and saw that it didn't really matter how young the sport was, it's going to draw a national audience. And so, we've almost been discipled by ESPN really over the last 50 years with this consistent coverage.   We talk about the rise of the sports complex. This one to me is like the most fascinating out of all of them. In 1997, Disney decided to try to get more people to come to their parks.   They built a sports complex, just a massive sports complex. The idea was, are the older kids getting sick of the Buzz Lightyear ride and the Disney princesses? So, let's build a sports complex and maybe it'll be something else that will draw this older crowd too.   And what happened was, I mean, a lot of people started coming to it, but kind of the stake in the ground game changer was when 9-11 hit. In the months and years after that, they saw a lot less people go to their parks, but population actually doubled going to the sports complex, which is wild to think that people were afraid to go to theme parks for a vacation, but they were willing to travel across state lines to play sports at the Disney complex. So other cities and municipalities took notice of that.   Today, there's over 30,000 sports complexes like Disney's, which again, this is all adding to the system of the youth sports industrial complex. Did I miss any, Ed?   Ed Uszynski: (8:41 - 10:47) Well, no, and that's good. And the reason why we even put all that on the table, again, everybody kind of intuitively knows if you're involved, you know, something's not right. But I think it's important to say this is not normal what's happening.   It's a new normal that's been manufactured by a bunch of cultural trends, by a bunch of entrepreneurs that are doing what entrepreneurs do, and they're taking advantage of the moment, and they are generating lots of money around it. So, it should be encouraging. If it's not normal, that means actually there's a counter way of going about this.   There really can be reformation. But when all this money gets involved, the two biggest consequences that come out of that is our kids start getting treated like commodities, which they are, and we could talk the whole time even just about what that means. But maybe even more importantly, or what comes out of that is that beyond their physical development, most coaches and clubs are not paying any attention to their emotional development, their psychological development, their spiritual development, all the different aspects of what it means to be human that, frankly, used to be paid quite a bit more attention to in youth leagues when I was growing up.   I'm 58 now, so I was playing in the 70s and the 80s. And it used to be expected, at least at some level, even among non-Christian people, that you would take those aspects of a kid's life seriously. And now those just aren't prioritized.   And so, what do we do about that? Again, that's kind of our whole point is, well, as Christian people, we're really supposed to be our kid's first discipler anyways. And part of that role and part of taking on that identity is that we would be asking, what is God trying to do in the wholeness of their life, the entirety of their life, even in the context of sports?   So again, I don't want to get ahead of myself here, but that's why we're trying to poke into that to say, oh, we could actually make change. We may not change the whole system. In fact, we won't. Most of us won't be expected to do that, but we can make significant change in our corner of the bleachers and what happens with our kids.   Laura Dugger: (10:48 - 11:05) That's good. And just like you said, to double-click on a few places, first of all, real quick, the 30,000 number, I remember that shocking me in the book, but I'm forgetting now, is that worldwide, the amount of sports complexes or is that just in America?   Brian Smith: (11:05 - 11:06) That's domestically in the US.   Laura Dugger: (11:07 - 11:52) Yeah. That is staggering. And then one other piece, all of this history was new to me as you brought it all together, but it was also fascinated.   This is from page 32. I'll just read your quote. The American youth sports ball began rolling when a British movement fusing spiritual development with physical activity made its way across the Atlantic Ocean at the turn of the last century.   And Ed, that's kind of what you were touching on, that they were mixing, I'm sure, spiritual, psychological discipleship, physical. Can you elaborate more on what was happening and where it originated? Because we've come very far from our origins.   Ed Uszynski: (11:53 - 13:18) Yeah. And there's been a bunch of really great books written about this topic called muscular Christianity. This idea, like you just said, Laura, of wedding physical activity through sports with our spiritual development and expecting and anticipating that somebody that was taking care of their body and that was engaging in sport activity, that was the closest thing to godliness.   That opened up the door for you to also be developing spiritually. And there was an expectation that both of those are going on at the same time. A bunch of criticism about that movement, but it was taken seriously.   The YMCA is actually a huge byproduct of the muscular Christianity movement. The Young Men's Christian Association created space for sports and for athletic activity to take place under the banner of you're also going to grow spiritually as you're doing this. So again, that was a hundred years ago.   And that's not really what AAU stands for today. The different clubs and leagues that we get involved in just don't talk that way anymore. Of course, culture just in general has shifted away from sort of a Judeo-Christian ethic guiding a North Star for us.   Even if we're not Christian people, that used to be more of a North Star. That's gone now. And so, it really is not expected in sports anymore.   Brian Smith: (13:18 - 13:55) And what we're saying is we cannot expect organizations to own that process for our kids. We can't outsource the discipleship of our kids to the youth sports industrial complex or the YMCA or the AAU. It really does start with us as Christian parents to be the primary discipler of our kids.   And there is a way to take what's happening on the field or the court or the pool and turn it into really amazing discipleship opportunities. But it means, and Ed is starting to tease this out, it means we need to change our perspective as parents when we sit in the bleachers or on the sidelines of what we're looking for and even the conversations we have with our kids on the back end.   Laura Dugger: (13:57 - 15:29) And now a brief message from our sponsor.   Sam Leman Chevrolet Eureka has been owned and operated by the Bertschi family for over 25 years. A lot has changed in the car business since Sam and Stephen's grandfather, Sam Leman, opened his first Chevrolet dealership over 55 years ago.   If you visit their dealership today though, you'll find that not everything has changed. They still operate their dealership like their grandfather did, with honesty and integrity. Sam and Stephen understand that you have many different choices in where you buy or service your vehicle.   This is why they do everything they can to make the car buying process as easy and hassle-free as possible. They are thankful for the many lasting friendships that began with a simple welcome to Sam Leman's. Their customers keep coming back because they experience something different.   I've known Sam and Stephen and their wives my entire life and I can vouch for their character and integrity, which makes it easy to highly recommend you check them out today. Your car buying process doesn't have to be something you dread, so come see for yourself at Sam Leman Chevrolet in Eureka. Sam and Stephen would love to see you and they appreciate your business.   Learn more at their website, LemanEureka.com or visit them on Facebook by searching for Sam Leman Eureka. You can also call them on 309-467-2351. Thanks for your sponsorship.   Laura Dugger: (15:30 - 15:31) And I want to continue getting into more of those practicals. Do you want to give us just a taste or an example or story of what that might look like?   Brian Smith: (15:32 - 16:54) We keep saying, we keep talking about the importance of the car ride home that it's tempting for us and not us broadly in the U.S., tempting for us, Ed and I, as people who have done this for 50 plus years and who should know better, it's tempting for us as discipled by an ESPN over analyzing everything culture and want to talk about sports to get in the car ride home with our kids and all we want to talk about is how game went, what they did right, what they did wrong, what they could fix next time.   Maybe instead of passing to Tim, they should take the shot next time because they're wide open. They just hit three in a row. So, and what our kids need from us in those moments is less coaching, less criticizing, less critiquing, and they just need us to connect with them.   The stats on kids quitting youth sports is crazy right now. Its 70 percent are quitting before the age of 13, in large part because it's not fun, and a lot of kids are attaching this idea of it not being fun to the car ride home with their parents who, let's say this too, most of us are well-intentioned parents. We're not trying to screw our kids up.   We want what's best for our kids, but the data and the research and the lived experience continues to tell us what our kids need from us is just to take a deep breath, connect with them, less coaching. Ed keeps saying less coaching, more slurpees.   Laura Dugger: (16:55 - 17:07) I like that. And that ties in. Is it called the peak-end principle that you discovered why kids are resisting that critique on the way home?   Brian Smith: (17:07 - 18:17) Yeah, absolutely. The peak-end rule in psychology is known as this: we, just as humans in general, not just kids, we largely remember things in our lives based on the peak moment of that event, but also how the event ends. And so, the peak moment in sport can be anything from something that goes really well, like they scored a goal or made a basket or something that did not go well, just like a massive event that took place that they're going to remember.   But then it's also married to how that event ends. So, if you think for kids, how does every youth sport experience end? It ends with the car ride home.   So, if they're experiencing the car ride home as I did not live up to mom and dad's standards, or there's fear getting into the car because they don't know what their parents are going to say, how are they remembering the totality of their youth sport experience? It is, I didn't, I didn't measure up. I wasn't enough.   It felt like sports was a place that I needed to perform for my parents or my coach. And I always feel a little bit short. We want to help parents see like there's a different path forward that can be more joyful for you, but hopefully more joyful for your kid as well.   Ed Uszynski: (18:17 - 21:37) Well, and, and I'll just, let me keep going with that, Brian. I thought you really articulated all that so well. I can just imagine a parent maybe thinking, was there never a time to correct?   Is there never a time to give input? And we would say, well, of course there, there is, they need far less of it from us than we think they need when it comes to their sport. And again, we can talk about that.   They need far less of that from us. They need us to be their parents, not to be their coaches. Even if we are their coach, they need us to be more their parents.   But there is a time to do it. We're just saying the car ride home is the worst time to do it. And that's usually the time that most of us, you know, we've got two hours of stuff to download with them.   And that's just, it's not a good time. But the other thing that Brian and I keep talking about is how about, what if we had some different metrics that we were even trying to measure? So, most of the time our metrics have to do with their performance.   Like what, what are we grading them on? Again, depending on what the sport is, there's these different things that we're looking for to say, how you did today is based on whether you did this or you didn't do that and whatnot. And we're saying as parents, and again, starting with us, we needed some other metrics that were actually more concerned about what was going on in their soul.   So again, I'm sure we'll talk more about this, but the virtues, how did love show up in the way they competed today? Where that usually is tied to them noticing somebody else. Do I, am I even asking them any questions about that?   Are they experiencing peace in the midst of all this chaos and anxiety that shows up at every game? How do we teach them to experience peace? How do they become other-centered instead of just self-centered all the time in a culture, a sport culture that's teaching them to always be the center of attention and try to be?   So, we just have needed to exchange some of what we had on that performance list, like tamper that down a little bit and maybe expand the list of categories that we're looking for that actually will matter when they're 25. And we keep saying this, our goal is that they'd come home for Thanksgiving when they're 25. And so, we need to stay relationally connected to them and how we act on the car ride home day after day after day after day, year after year is doing something to our relationship.   But we also are recognizing that it's really not going to matter whether Trey finishes with his left hand at the game today when he's 25, it's not going to matter. It's not going to matter probably a year from now, but how he goes through the handshake line after the game and the way he addresses other people, and whether or not he's learning to submit to authority, whether or not he's learning to embrace other people's humanity. Yes, even in the context of sports, that's really going to matter when he's 25.   It's going to matter when he's married. Those are the things that will matter. And we say that as people who are older and have been involved in ministry and have worked with college athletes and see what happens in their lives even after they're finished, and they have no idea who they are anymore.   And this thing that's dominated their life has not actually prepared them well to do life. And that's a problem that we say, let's start changing that when they're six and not hope they're figuring it out when they're 22.   Laura Dugger: (21:38 - 22:11) I love that because that's such a theme throughout those virtues that you talked about, but discipleship and sports are a tool or a way that we can disciple our kids. I also love that you give various questions throughout the book and even quick phrases. So to close that conversation on the car ride home, if we say, okay, that's what I've been coaching the whole way home, what is a question we could ask our child afterwards and a statement we could say and leave it at that and do it a better way?   Brian Smith: (22:12 - 23:56) The question I have consistently asked my kids after learning that I've been doing this the wrong way for a long time, I tweet my question to they get in the car and I say, is there anything that happened today from the game that you want to talk about? And it's frustrating to me because 99% of the time they say, no, can we listen to the radio? And we listen to the radio, or they play a on my phone, but I'm respecting their desire that they're done with what just happened and they're ready to move on to the next thing, even though I really want to talk about what just happened.   And then the statement that I want to make sure that I'm consistently saying that they're hearing is I love you and I'm proud of you. So, game didn't go well. Yeah, you did play well today.   That's okay. Hey, I love you and I'm proud of you. Game went well today.   Awesome. Great job. Hey, I love you and I'm proud of you.   So I want that to be the consistent theme that they're hearing for me, which is hopefully going to help them better understand the gospel later in life, that as they get older and older, hopefully they'll begin to realize it seemed like the way that my mom and dad interacted with me when I was performing in sport, but their love was not attached to my performance. That seems really similar to what I'm learning more and more that Jesus does for me, that I'm trying to do all these things that are good. But from what I'm understanding about the gospel, it seems like Jesus loves me in spite of what I do.   He loves me just because He's connected to me, that God loves me because I'm a son or daughter, not because I'm performing as a son or a daughter. So, in a very real way, I really am hoping that I'm giving a good teaser for my kids now for when they fully experience the gospel as they go through the life.   Ed Uszynski: (23:56 - 24:47) Another really good connecting question. I love how you said all that, Brian, is if they don't want to talk about the game, is it okay, did you have fun today? And they can only go in one of two directions.   No. Well, tell me about that. Why not?   And it opens up the door to talk about, well, because I didn't get to play or because something bad happened. And again, tell me more about that. Tell me more about that.   Or they say, yes, great. What happened that was fun? And it creates a very different conversation in the car.   And it opens up, again, relational possibilities that go way beyond, why do you keep passing it when you should be shooting it? Wow. And just all the different ways that that comes out of us, depending on sport, depending on their age.   But those are great questions. Go ahead, Brian.   Brian Smith: (24:47 - 25:41) I just asked my son this morning. He's a freshman. His wrestling season is almost done.   And I just asked, like, what has been most fun for you in wrestling this year? And his first thing was, I feel like I'm learning a lot. And that's really fun for me, which he's on a really good team.   He's had a lot of success. He's made a lot of good friends. But even that gave me a window into his characters.   My son enjoys and I knew this is true about him. But my son enjoys learning, which means he enjoys the process of getting better and better and better, which can happen in school, it can happen doing stuff in the yard, it can it can also happen in sport. But for me to remember moving forward, yeah, he he's probably going to have a different metric for what's fun in sport than I often do for him.   Yeah, like I wanted to learn. I want him to win though, too. He's happy with learning right now.   So, I need to be happy with that for him.   Ed Uszynski: (25:41 - 26:34) If I can say this, too, again, I don't want to be vulnerable on your behalf. But then knowing this, he's lost a lot this year to really good kids. Yeah.   And so much of the learning has been in the context of losing. So, you as a dad, actually, you could be crushing him because of those losses and what he needs to do to fix that and what he needs to do so that that doesn't happen again. And it's like he's already committed to learning.   How do you just how do you celebrate the loss? Like he took the risk to try something new in this movie. He tried to survive an extra period.   That's a process when and it's we just need to get better at that. Like you genuinely can celebrate that. That's not just a that's not like a participation trophy.   It's acknowledging now, do you're taking you're taking the right steps that are actually making you a winner, even if you don't have more points at the end of the game right now.   Laura Dugger: (26:34 - 26:54) Yeah. Yeah. And that long term win that you're talking about, even with character and you've talked about fun and asking them about fun.   Is it true that that's the main reason kids are dropping out of sports at such a rapid rate before age 13 is that it's just not fun anymore?   Ed Uszynski: (26:55 - 28:58) Yeah. Yeah. And why is it not fun?   And again, this is where Brian and I are always getting in each other's business. And we know that this conversation gets in all of our business as adults. But why is it not fun?   It's not fun because of the coaches and it's not fun because of the parents. We are creating stress. We are creating again collectively because we're all in different places on the on the spectrum on this in terms of what we're actually doing when we show up at games.   But if you even just go to any soccer game and you be quiet and just listen to what's happening and everybody's shouting and screaming things and there's contradictory messages being sent and there's angst at every turn and there's an incredible celebration because this eight year old was able to get the ball to go across the line for another goal. And what that's doing inside the kids is it is creating a not fun atmosphere. Let's just say it like that.   That's a not fun atmosphere when you're eight, when you're 10, when you're trying to figure out how to make your body work. You're trying to learn the game that you're unfamiliar with and you're trying to do what this coach is telling you to do. And you're also trying to do what all the parents are telling you what to do.   And if it's a team sport, you're trying to interact and play with other kids who are all in that same state of disarray, which is very stressful and frustrating. And we're just adding to it. So instead of removing it, instead of playing a role that says, we're going to keep diffusing that stress.   And again, I'll speak for myself. Too often, I have been the one that's actually adding to it. And so, kids are just like, why would I do this?   Why would I want to get in that car again with you? It's not fun. This is a game.   And so, there's a million other things that I can do with my time where I don't have everybody yelling at me and I don't have to listen to you correct me for two hours.   Laura Dugger: (29:00 - 29:21) Well, and one other thing that surprised me, maybe why kids are dropping out, you share on page 47, a quote that research reveals a strange correlation. The more we spend, the less our kids actually enjoy their sport. So, did you have any more insight into that?   Brian Smith: (29:21 - 30:50) Yeah, this was a real study that was done at Utah State. Researchers found that the more money parents are spending, again, let's say well-intentioned parents, the more we're spending in sports, the less our kids are enjoying. And the more they have dug into it, they're finding, and intuitively it makes sense.   If you buy your kid a $600 baseball bat, what's the expectation that they're supposed to do with this really expensive bat? When they swing, they better hit the ball, and they better get on base. If we're going to buy you this expensive of a bat, you can't just have process goals with it.   You better swing and hit it. And that's causing stress for kids. If you travel across state lines and you go to Disney to play at their sports complex, you're not there for vacation.   You're there to perform. So even if parents are saying we're trying to have fun, kids know when you're traveling and you're getting all this good equipment and you're on the elite team and you're receiving the best of the best stuff, they know it comes with some sort of an expectation. College athletes can barely handle that type of pressure and expectations, but we've placed this professional on youth sports from fifth five-year-olds to 15-year-olds, and it's just crushing them.   It's crushing them. Again, college athletes and professional athletes can barely handle it. They need mental health coaches for sports, but we're expecting that our five-year-olds can handle it, and they can't.   Ed Uszynski: (30:51 - 31:19) And they may not even be able to articulate it. So that's the other thing. They may not be able to identify what's actually going on inside and put it into words.   So again, that's why we're trying to sound the alarm for ourselves and for others who are listening, because we can do it different. Again, just to even keep spinning it back in an encouraging direction, we can do this different. We can change this this week in our corner of the bleachers.   We can start over again.   Laura Dugger: (31:21 - 31:48) Absolutely and make a difference. And before we talk about even more of the pros with sports, I think it's also necessary to reflect and maybe even grieve a few things. So, what would you say are some things families are missing out on when they choose youth sports to overfill their calendar, that that's all that they make time for?   What do you think they're missing out on?   Brian Smith: (31:51 - 33:16) Yeah, I think a couple that come to mind are family dinners are a big one. That's big for us in the Smith house, is just having the ability after a long day to sit at the dinner table together, to eat food together, and to process the day and be with one another. But when my kids' practice goes late, it means we're either eating almost towards bedtime or we're eating in different shifts.   And so that's something that we grieve. I think for me, when my schedule is full, I'm tempted to adopt the mindset that what's happening on the wrestling mat or on the track matters more than it actually does. And it robs me of the ability to just take a deep breath and smile and enjoy watching my kids play sports.   That without an intervention or a pregame devotional in the car for myself, I risk sitting in the stands or being on the sidelines, being stressed out and putting pressure on myself and pressure on my kids and gossiping about why the coach didn't put this kid into the people next to me, instead of just enjoying the gift that is sports and watching my kid try and succeed and try and fail. That is a gift available to me as a dad to watch my kid do that. But the busyness often robs me of that perspective.   Ed Uszynski: (33:17 - 36:06) Well, and the busyness robs, again, if you're married, that busyness eventually wears away at your relationship. And it's not just sports. I mean, busyness, we can fill our schedule, overfill our schedules with any number of things.   We can overfill our schedules with church stuff to a point where it becomes detrimental to our relationship. If we don't set boundaries so that we're making sure we're doing what we need to do to be face-to-face and to be going to areas beneath the surface with each other in our relationship and being able to do that with our kids as well, eventually there's negative consequences to that. It may not happen right away, but I've definitely experienced that.   We've experienced that in our home where it's easy to maybe chase one kid around for a while, but what happens when you add three into the mix and you haven't really done a time budget or paid attention to the fact that when we sign up for all these things, you get a month into it and you realize, oh, we have to be in different places at the same time. So, we're not even watching stuff together anymore. We're just running.   I can endure anything for a season, but what youth sports wants now in every sport from the youngest ages is that it becomes a year-round commitment. So, you're not even signing up to play a season anymore. You're signing up for a year in most cases because after the games, then they're going to have training.   They're going to have this other thing going on. And so again, can we say, well, we'll play the actual season, but then we're not going to do the additional training over these next three months. Again, we want to give parents' permission that you can say no to that.   Well, we paid for it. Well, it's okay. If you want your kid to be on that team and you like this club or whatever, then you pay the money and you just say, we're going to sit those three months out and we're going to use those three months actually to have people over our house for dinner.   Again, whatever's on the list, Laura, that you said about being more holistic and not letting sport operate like an idol in our life where it's taken on, it's washed out everything else in our life. We can get back in control of that by just saying no a little bit. You can go to church on Sunday.   Even if there's tournament games going on on Sunday, you can go to the coach early and say, hey, we just, in our family, we just don't want to be available before 12. Are you okay with that? And most of the time coaches will be.   The kid might have to sit extra maybe for not being, whatever. Okay. That's not going to be the end of the world that they had to sit out an extra game or had to sit out a half because they weren't available on Sunday morning.   It might actually make a huge difference that they weren't at church for two and a half years in the most formative time of their life.   Laura Dugger: (36:07 - 37:36) And a lot of times the way of wisdom includes reflection, getting alone with the Lord and asking, have we overstuffed our schedule this conversation today? Let's talk specifically with youth sports. Is that trumping everything else?   Because what if we're putting it in a place it was never intended to be as an idol where we sacrifice hospitality or discipleship or community or even just a more biblical way of life? I think we have to bring wisdom into the conversation for what you've mentioned. Whether it's worth it, if they're even enjoying it, how much we're spending on it, and do we have the budget to allocate our finances that way and evaluating the time just to see and make sure that it's rightly ordered.   Did you know you could receive a free email with monthly encouragement, practical tips, and plenty of questions to ask to take your conversation a level deeper, whether that's in parenting or on date nights? Make sure you access all of this at thesavvysauce.com by clicking the button that says join our email list so that you can follow the prompts and begin receiving these emails at the beginning of each month. Enjoy!   But if we flip that to if youth sports are rightly ordered, then what are some things that we can celebrate or reasons that you would want families to give this a try?   Brian Smith: (37:37 - 40:09) The massive positive that we keep coming back to is we have a front row seat to see our kids go through every possible emotion in sport, the highest of highs and the lowest of lows. And then if we have the right perspective, we are armed with awesome opportunities and awesome information that we're seeing. We get to see what our kids are really good at.   We get to see their character gaps. And then we get to be the ones who, again, who are their primary response, primary disciplers. It really goes back to like, are we trusting youth sports for too little in our kids' lives?   Like many of us are trusting that our investment is going to get them a spot on a team, or maybe they get an opportunity in high school, maybe in college. And what we're saying is, yeah, that maybe. And that's not a bad end goal.   But if that's everything that you're investing into youth sports, it's not enough. Like what you have available to you every single day is to ask your kid if they showed somebody else's dignity on the field. You don't know if your kid's going to hit a home run today.   That may not be available to them their entire life. What's available to them every single day is to ask a question to their teammate, to see somebody and show dignity to them. And that's really, it's like, it's almost the opportunity of a lifetime for us as parents who, when our kids get home from school, we really don't know what happened most of the day.   We asked them how it went and we get the one-word answer. In sports, we don't have to guess. We get to see everything that happens.   And again, if we are actually trusting youth sports for discipleship investment, that's a good ROI. That's a good return on our investment. But we need a consistent intervention almost daily to say, no, this is why they're in sports.   Yes, I want to see them get better. I want to see them have fun, but Holy Spirit, would you help me see things today that I normally don't see? Holy Spirit, would you put them in circumstances and relationships today and in the season that's going to help them look more and more like Jesus by the time the season's done?   Holy Spirit, would you convict me in the moment when I am being a little too mouthy and saying things that I shouldn't? Would you help me to repent? And God, in those moments where I'm actually doing wrong on behalf of my kid, would you help me to humble myself and apologize to them?   And God, would you repair our relationship that way? So again, all of these options are available just because our kid's shooting a ball or they're on the field with somebody else tackling other people. We're trusting youth sports for too little.   Ed Uszynski: (40:10 - 41:10) That's all big boy and big girl stuff. It just is. I don't normally naturally do any of that.   I have to be coached into that. I have to be discipled myself. I have to work through my own issues, my own baggage, my own fears about the future, my own idolatrous holding onto this imagined future that I have for my kid, irrespective of what God may or may not want.   I've got my own resentment. I've got my own regrets from the past. I wish things had gone differently for me, so I'm going to make sure they go different for you when it comes to sports.   And it's hard to look in the mirror and admit that I have anger issues. I mean, youth sports create a great opportunity for me to get up all my pent-up frustration from the day. We've given ourselves permission to do that, in most cases, to just yell and yell at refs and gripe about coaches and yell at kids.   Brian Smith: (41:10 - 41:31) Because that's what we do at the TV, right? When our favorite team is playing, we've conditioned ourselves to say, awful call, that was terrible. Then we get on social media and we complain about it.   We are discipling ourselves to this is how it's normative to respond within the context of sports. Then we carry all that baggage to our six-year-old soccer game.   Laura Dugger: (41:33 - 42:02) Well, I love how you keep pointing it back toward character and discipleship. You clearly state throughout the book, sports don't develop character, people do. But could you maybe elaborate on that a little bit more and share more now that we've listed pros and cons, you still list a completely different way that we can meaningfully participate while also pushing back?   Brian Smith: (42:04 - 43:49) I'll start with the first part, and then you can answer the second. We use the handshake line as a great example of why character needs to be taught to our kids. If you just watch a normal handshake line left without coaching, the kids are going through it, especially the ones who lose with their head down, they have limp hands, there's no eye contact, and they're mumbling good game, good game.   Sometimes they don't even say it, they'll say GG stands for good game. They don't just learn character by going through the handshake line. If anything, that's going through it like that without any sort of intervention or coaching, that's malforming their character.   That's teaching them when things don't go well, that it's okay for them not to be a big boy or a big girl and look somebody in the eye and congratulate them. What needs to happen? An adult needs to step in and say, hey, as we go through the handshake line, whether you win or lose, here's how we do it with class.   We shake somebody's hand, we look them in the eye, and we say good game. Even if in those moments we don't actually mean it, we still show them dignity and honor. And then when we're done going through the handshake line, guess what we're going to do?   We're going to run down the refs who are trying to get in their car and get out of here, and we're going to give them a high five and say, thank you so much for reffing today. That stuff needs to be taught. Our kids don't just come out of the womb knowing how to do that.   We have to teach them how to do it. Sometimes good coaches will do that, but the more and more we get sucked up into the sports industrial complex, we're getting well-intentioned coaches, but we're getting coaches who care more about the big W, the win, than the character formation stuff that happens.   Ed Uszynski: (43:49 - 45:27) They need to keep hearing it over and over again. I have a ninth grade Bible study in my house the other day with athletes and a whole bunch of my son's basketball team. Exactly what Brian just said, I actually was like, wow, I've got them here.   There was a big blow up at a game the other day, and we wound up talking about it. I said, I'm going to take this opportunity actually to say what Brian just said. When you go through a handshake line, this is how you go through it.   I watched what happened in the game a couple days later. Basically, they did the exact opposite of what I told them to do, and they lost. It was just what Brian said.   They went through limp handed. They didn't look anybody in the face, and they weren't even saying anything. I just chuckled to myself, and you know how this is as a parent.   They may or may not do it. Of course, those aren't my kids. I have more stewardship over my child, who actually, he is doing what I've asked him to do because I've re-emphasized it across time now.   It's not a failure because they didn't do what I said. Again, the pouty side of me wants to be like, forget it. I'm just not even going to try anymore.   It's like, no, they're kids. That was the first time they've heard that. They're going to do what their patterns have, the muscle memory that's been created by their patterns, just like we do as adults.   The next time I have a chance to bring that up again, I'm not going to shame them. I'm just going to go over it again with them. Here's how we do it.   It's super hard to do this, guys, when you just want to be violent with people or you want to cry. You got to pull yourself together. That's what big men do.   That's what big women do in life. They pull themselves together in those moments and do the right thing.   Brian Smith: (45:28 - 46:01) You don't know whether the fifth time you say it is going to stick or the 50th time. Your responsibility as the Christ-following parent is to do it the sixth time and the seventh time and the seventh time and trust that God is going to take those moments and do what he does. We're ultimately not responsible for our kids' behavior.   We're responsible for pointing them in the right direction, and then hopefully, yeah, the Holy Spirit steps in and transforms and changes and convicts in those moments, but it might take some time.   Ed Uszynski: (46:02 - 47:47) Tom Bilyeu So that's how you push back, Laura. You were asking that. How do we push back without being just completely involved in it or going for the same ride that everybody else is going for?   There's just little moments like that scattered throughout. Literally, every day that my kids are involved in youth sports, the car ride over, what happens on the way home, how we talk about it, what happens during the game and what we wind up talking about out of that, the side conversations that happen that just get brought up apart from games of how we interact with people and so-and-so looks like they're struggling. What do you know about that?   That's how we push back, that in our corner of the bleachers, oh, how we interact with other parents. We haven't even talked about that yet, that I can take an interest in more than just my own kid in the bleachers and spend way more energy actually in cheering for other kids and just trying to give them confidence and spend way less time trying to direct that at my own child who knows that I'm there. In fact, my side kid has said he doesn't want to hear my voice during the game.   It distracts him. He's like, I'd much rather that you cheer for other people. It's like, okay.   Having questions ready for other parents during timeouts and as you sit there for hours together, what do you talk about? Well, I could be the one that actually initiates substantive conversations over time with them and asks them about what's going on in different parts of their life. And in having done that, people want to talk.   They want a safe place actually to share what's going on in their So let me be the sports minister. Let me take on that identity and actually care about other people.   Laura Dugger: (47:49 - 49:47) I love that. Even that practical idea of just coming to each game, maybe with a different question, ready to open up those conversations. And I'll share a quick story as well.   Our two oldest daughters recently just gave cheerleading a try at a local Christian school that allows homeschool kids to participate. And this is an overt way that somebody chooses the different way. So, it's the coach of the basketball team.   His name is Cole. And at the end of every game, we saw him consistently throughout this season when it was a home game, whether their team won or lost, he would ask them, okay, shut off the scoreboard. It's all blank.   He gathers both teams. As soon as the game is over teams, cheerleaders, the stands stay filled with all the parents. And he says, this is not our identity.   The world and Satan, our enemy, who's very real. He wants us to put our identity here, but it's not here. You made us better tonight by the way that you played and you were able to shine Jesus.   And we're going to go a step further and we're going to do what we call attaways. So, he's like, all right, boys, you open it up. And his team is trained.   They say to the other team, Hey, number 23, what's your name? I loved how you pushed me so much harder tonight and says, my name's Ben. And so, their Attaway is, Hey, Ben.   And everybody goes, Hey, Ben. Yeah, Ben. Yeah, Ben Attaway.   And everybody just erupts in clapping. And the other team is always blown away and they are just grinning, whether they just lost. So, the boys go through that for a while and then they open it up to the other team and they start sharing Attaways.   And then they open it up to the crowd and the parents are able to say, I see the way you modeled Jesus by being selfless with the ball or whatever it is. So, Cole said that his college coach did that many years ago and he's passed that on. And I love that's one way to redeem the game.   Ed Uszynski: (49:47 - 51:39) Wow. Beautiful. Beautiful.   Yeah. That's amazing. And, you know, I, so Brian and I talk about this too.   And I coached at a Christian school. So, we, we think that it's really important if you're going to play sports and you're going to be a Christian coach that you actually take the game seriously. And that we actually are here to compete and we are here to try to win.   There's nothing wrong with that. And we're going to pursue excellence when we show up with our bodies, and we train for this sport and we're going to try to win. Cause I think sometimes we end up kind of going all or nothing, especially within our Christian circles.   We're uncomfortable with that. And it's like, yes, do that. And on the backside of that to do what that coach did is amazing.   It's that, that is, that is exactly what we're saying. We're also going to try to form our souls in the midst of this. We're going to try to win on the scoreboard.   Okay. The game's over, we lost, we won, whatever. There's more going on here than just that. And can we access that together? And again, that's so rare. Probably everybody listening has never even heard of anything like what you just said.   It would be amazing if a bunch of people did, but that's what we're saying. Let's do more of that. Let's find ways to have more of those conversations in our sphere of influence.   Maybe we're not the coach, but we can do that in our car. We can do that when we're at dinners with the other, with other players and other team, you know, we, we can do that. We can take that kind of initiative.   If we have those categories in our mind, instead of just being frustrated that my kid didn't get to play as much tonight. And I'm that bugs me. It's like, okay, it can bug you.   And now I gotta, I gotta be a big boy and get more out of this than just being frustrated that he or she didn't get to play as much. It's hard.   Laura Dugger: (51:40 - 52:11) Absolutely. Well, and like you guys are doing having Bible studies outside of the, the team that you can instill values in that way and share scripture that they're memorizing to go out there with excellence for the Lord. So, I love all of that.   And I've got just a few quick questions, just kind of for perspective. I want to draw out something from the book. Is it true that young athletic success predicts adult athletic success?   Brian Smith: (52:13 - 53:51) It is not true. This is, this is not a hot take. This is researched back more and more research they're doing on this.   And they're finding that there's not a direct correlation between a young elite athlete and them continuing that up into the right trajectory and being an elite athlete later in life in large part, because when puberty hits, like everything is a game changer. So, this is, I found this fascinating and this is probably going to be new to you too. This just came out today.   At the time we're doing this podcast, the winter Olympics is going on in Norway. It's just like, they're killing it. Nor Norway's youth sports system.   This is wild. They give participation trophies for all the kids. They don't keep score until 13 years old.   They don't do any national travel competitions, no posting youth sports results online. So, there's no online presence of youth sport results. And their country motto is joy of sport for all.   And they're, they're killing it right now in the Olympics. So, like, that's not to say, like you got to follow their model and then you're going to win all these gold medals, but it is, there is something to just let the kids have fun. And the longer they play sport, because it's fun, the better opportunity you're actually going to have to see them blossom and develop some of these God-given gifts that they might have.   Don't expect it to come out before they're 13. Even if it does, there's no guarantee that it's going to continue on until they're 23. Just let them have fun.   Ed Uszynski: (53:52 - 55:55) Brian, we, Brian and I got to speak at a church the other day about this topic. And there was a couple that came up afterwards and they asked the question of what, so when do you think we should let our kids play organized sports or structured sports? And so again, Brian and I are careful.   Like I, there's no, there's no one size fits all answer to that. We would suggest as late as possible, wait as long as possible. Because once you start doing structured sport where there's a coach and you have to be at practices and the games are structured and there's reps, it just cuts away all the possibility they have to just play and just to go up to the YMCA and just play for three hours at whatever it is that they like to do.   And they said, well, it's encouraging to hear that they said, because we, we actually are way more into just developing their bodies physically. And so, we do dance with them, and we do rock climbing and they were kind of outdoorsy people, and they just started listing off all these things they do because we want them to become strong in their bodies, and learn to love activity like that. And I just thought, again, that's, that probably would cause a lot of people to freak out to hear that, that they have eight, nine-year-olds that aren't on teams yet.   They're just, they're training their bodies to appreciate physicality and to become coordinated and to, you know, to get better at movement. And it's like, what sport is that not going to be super helpful in five years from now, even when they're 12, 13 years old. And now they really do want to play one sport, and they do want to be on a team.   They're going to be way ahead of the kids actually that just sat on benches or stood in the outfield, you know, day after day after day at practices. Again, that's maybe hard to hear, but maybe there's some adjustments that need to be made again; to give ourselves permission to say, we don't have to get on that train right now. You don't have to, your kid's not going to be behind.   They actually could be ahead. If you do the kinds of things we just talked about.   Laura Dugger: (55:56 - 56:11) I love that. And even that example with what it looks like played out with Norway and also, do you have any other quick tips just for instilling and cultivating a heart of gratitude and youth sports rather than entitlement?   Brian Smith: (56:13 - 57:33) I'm a high school cross country and track coach, and I have kids on my team who want to get faster at running, but instead of running, they want to lift weights and they want to do plier metrics. So, there's, yes, there's a spot for that. But the way you get better at running is to run.   You got to run more miles and more miles. And I think gratitude is similar. That gratitude, part of it is a, it's a feeling, but it's also a muscle that we can flex even if we don't feel it.   And so, I would encourage parents who are trying to instill gratitude into their kids to give them practical things like, hey, after practice, just go shake your coach's hand or give them a fist bump and tell them, thanks for practice today, coach. That that's a disciplined way to practice gratitude that will hopefully build the muscle where they're, they're using it later in life. After a game, I taught my kids this when they were young and they still do it today.   Go shake a ref's hand. I mentioned this earlier, just a really, really practical way to show thankfulness and gratitude to somebody who really doesn't get a whole lot of gratitude pointed at them during a game or after a game. If anything, they have people chasing them through the parking lot for other reasons.   I want my kids to be chasing them down to give them a fist bump or a high five. And so, gratitude is something that we can just practice practically. And hopefully the discipline practice will lead to a delight and actually doing it.   Ed Uszynski: (57:34 - 59:39) And how do we cultivate an inner posture? Cause I tend to be a cup half empty type person. I'm a, I'm a whiner by nature and a continuous improvement.   There's always something wrong. And I'm, it's easy for me to find those things just as a person. I'm not even saying that as a dad or a coach or anything.   And it's been super helpful to me in the last decade, even to just like, I can choose to shift that. There, there is, there's a list of things that are broke, but there is always a list of things that are good. There's always something good here to be found.   And even as I've tried to like, again, tip the scales more in that direction, I can keep pushing that out of my kids. So, so this, you know, my ninth-grade son tends to just like, he doesn't like a whole bunch of what's going on in basketball right now. So, I keep asking him if he's having fun.   He says, no, like, why not? Or like, who did, why did you not have fun today? So, it's just the same thing every day.   I'm like, okay, who did you enjoy even being with today? Nobody. And I'm like, dude, I don't believe that actually.   I just, I don't believe that. There was somebody that you had some moment with today that you enjoyed, or you wouldn't want to keep going back up there because, and he does. So, give me a name.   Okay. Lenny. What happened with Lenny that was fun? And I make him name it. Like I'm, I'm, I'm trying to coach him through it. And sure enough, he does have some sentences of what was fun today.   And it's like, good, let's, let's at least hold onto that in the midst of all the other stuff that's not right. Let's choose to see the thing that was good and that you enjoyed and that we could be thankful for. Not everybody got to have that today.   Again, I have to have my, I have to be the parent. I have to be the discipler. I have to be in, you know, in charge of my own soul that wants to be negative all the time and say, nope, we're going to, we're going to choose gratitude today because the Bible tells us to do that.   There's something about that posture that opens the door for the gospel to be expressed through us. So, let's practice.   Laura Dugger: (59:40 - 59:50) Well said, and there's so much we could continue learning from both of you. Where can we go after this chat to learn more from each one of you?   Brian Smith: (59:52 - 1:00:14) Yeah, we do a lot of our writing online at thechristianathlete.com. And so, if you go there, you can see articles that are specifically written for parents, for coaches, for athletes, all around this idea of what does it look like to integrate faith and sport together? So, the