Podcast appearances and mentions of grey wolf

We are so excited to journey with you to Three Pines, the fictional French-Canadian village created by Louise Penny for her Three Pines series, featuring Armand Gamache. This spin-off podcast series will tackle each of the books in the series in turn, in a spoiler-FILLED format. Be sure you've read the book before listening to the episode. As you've come to expect with all Currently Reading content, Meredith and Roxanna will follow a regular episode format, with regular segments, so you know what to expect each and every time. We love staying focused on the book, rather than conversational rabbit holes.  Show notes for this series will not be time-stamped except for broad sections, but will include links to Bookshop dot org or Amazon for any books or resources referenced in the episode. 2:00 - Putting the Book Into Context The Beautiful Mystery by Louise Penny Published Aug 28, 2012 by Minotaur Books 4.2 rating on Goodreads Seasonal setting - Autumn Book Awards: Agatha Award for best novel 2012, The Anthony Award for best novel 2013, The Macavity Award for Best Novel 2013, The Audie Award for Best Mystery Novel 201 Critic Reviews A Trick of the Light by Louise Penny Meredith's and Roxanna's encounters with the book 8:30 - The Setup 9:40 - A Deeper Exploration Setup and first paragraph The pacing of the novel Bury Your Dead by Louise Penny Jean-Guy and Annie Themes: addiction, “descent” evil - through the lens of Francouer The ending The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins Canadian aspects Abbey of Saint Benoit Du Lac 1:10:23 - Superlatives Favorite Scene Character MVP Biggest loser Best food description Is this book skippable? Favorite Quote No spoilers this episode!  The Grey Wolf by Louise Penny The next book will be How the Light Gets In by Louise Penny Support Us: Become a Bookish Friend | Grab Some Merch Shop Bookshop dot org | Shop Amazon Bookish Friends Receive: The Indie Press List with a curated list of five books hand sold by the indie of the month. February's IPL comes to you from Fables and Fairy Tales in Martinsville, Indiana! Love and Chili Peppers with Kaytee and Rebekah - romance lovers get their due with this special episode focused entirely on the best selling genre fiction in the business.  All Things Murderful with Meredith and Elizabeth - special content for the scary-lovers, brought to you with the behind-the-scenes insights of an independent bookseller From the Editor's Desk with Kaytee and Bunmi Ishola - a quarterly peek behind the curtain at the publishing industry The Bookish Friends Facebook Group - where you can build community with bookish friends from around the globe as well as our hosts Connect With Us: The Show: Instagram | Website | Email | Threads The Hosts and Regulars: Meredith | Kaytee | Mary | Roxanna Production and Editing: Megan Phouthavong Evans Affiliate Disclosure: All affiliate links go to Bookshop unless otherwise noted. Shopping here helps keep the lights on and benefits indie bookstores. Thanks for your support!

Courtney Vail is the Board Chair and Community Outreach Advisor for Rocky Mountain Wolf Project. As a wildlife biologist and social scientist with a deep background in environmental policy and psychology, she has provided leadership for the design and implementation of diverse domestic and international programs, campaigns, and initiatives. Courtney spoke about recent events dealing with the wolf reintroductions in Colorado, coexistence measures that are being implemented on the ground, and campaigns she has launched to raise money to help continue reintroduction efforts in the future. Rocky Mountain Wolf Project (Website)Born to Be Wild License PlateUSFWS Seeks Information on Illegal Killing of Grey Wolf in Colorado@rockymtnwolf@thewolfconnectionpod

Narrator Jean Brassard joins AudioFile's Michele Cobb to discuss narrating Louise Penny's latest in the Three Pines series, THE GREY WOLF. It's a thrilling mystery and a new voice for a beloved series, and Brassard describes what it was like to step into the shoes of Chief Inspector Armand Gamache. He discusses how his Quebecois background informed his performance and what he enjoyed the most about narrating this mystery named one of AudioFile's Best of 2024. Read AudioFile's review of THE GREY WOLF. Published by Macmillan Audio. AudioFile's 2024 Best Mystery & Suspense Audiobooks are: THE BRIAR CLUB by Kate Quinn, read by Saskia Maarleveld THE GREY WOLF by Louise Penny, read by Jean Brassard A NEST OF VIPERS by Harini Nagendra, read by Soneela Nankani THE SEQUEL by Jean Hanff Korelitz, read by Julia Whelan SHANGHAI by Joseph Kanon, read by Jonathan Davis YOU'LL NEVER FIND ME by Allison Brennan, read by Hillary Huber Find the full list of 2024 Best Audiobooks on our website. Today's episode is brought to you by Brilliance Publishing. The Sound of Storytelling. Discover your next great listen at https://www.brilliancepublishing.com/ Jean Brassard photo by Steve Vaccariello. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

In this, the second part of our interview with Louise Penny we talk to her about the art of writing, how she stays fresh and what her year looks like as she writes and completes a Gamache mystery. We widen our lens on the art of writing with Louise Penny. Stay with us, you won't want to miss it. Books mentioned in this week's episode: The Grey Wolf by Louise Penny Still Life by Louise Penny A Fatal Grace by Louise Penny The Cruelest Month by Louise Penny A Rule Against Murder by Louise Penny The Brutal Telling by Louise Penny Bury Your Dead by Louise Penny The Hangman by Louise Penny A Trick of the Light by Louise Penny The Beautiful Mystery by Louise Penny How the Light Gets In by Louise Penny The Nature of the Beast by Louise Penny A Great Reckoning by Louise Penny Glass Houses by Louise Penny Kingdom of the Blind by Louise Penny A Better Man by Louise Penny All the Devils Are Here The Madness of Crowds by Louise Penny State of Terror by Louise Penny and Hillary Rodham Clinton World of Curiosities by Louise Penny The Complete Collection of Sherlock Holmes by Arthur Conan Doyle And Then There Were None by Agatha Christie A Prayer for Owen Meaney by John Irving The Devil in the White City by Eric Larson Solomon Gursky Was Here by Mordecai Richler Left on Tenth by Delia Ephron Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

DID HITLER—CODE NAME “GREY WOLF”—REALLY DIE IN 1945? In a riveting scenario that has never been fully investigated until now, international journalist Gerrard Williams and military historian Simon Dunstan make a powerful case for the Führers escape to a remote enclave in Argentina-along with other key Nazis—where he is believed to have lived comfortably until 1962. Following years of meticulous research, the authors reconstruct the dramatic plot-including astonishing evidence and compelling testimony, some only recently declassified. Impossible to put down, Grey Wolf unravels an extraordinary story that flies in the face of history.Support this show http://supporter.acast.com/houseofmysteryradio. Become a member at https://plus.acast.com/s/houseofmysteryradio. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

On this episode of Currently Reading, Kaytee and Meredith are discussing: Bookish Moments: relying on books when sick and bookish themed parties Current Reads: all the great, interesting, and/or terrible stuff we've been reading lately Deep Dive: bookishness that we are thankful for The Fountain: we visit our perfect fountain to make wishes about our reading lives Show notes are time-stamped below for your convenience. Read the transcript of the episode (this link only works on the main site) .  .  .  .  1:29 - Ad For Ourselves 1:53 - Currently Reading Patreon 8:19 - Fabled Bookshop 9:13 - Our Bookish Moments Of The Week 11:33 - Currently Reading Patreon 12:42 - Our Current Reads 13:03 - The Ruins by Scott Smith (Meredith) 14:15 - 101 Horror Books to Read Before You're Murdered by Sadie Hartmann 17:55 - The Turtle House by Amanda Churchill (Kaytee) 18:01 - Commonplace Books 19:40 - Betty by Tiffany McDaniel 21:09 - Be Ready When the Luck Happens by Ina Garten (Meredith) 26:56 - Bonk by Mary Roach (Kaytee) 29:43 - Gulp by Mary Roach 31:01 - The Last Detective by Peter Lovesey (Meredith) 36:12 - Ruthless Vows by Rebecca Ross (Kaytee) 36:27 - Divine Rivals by Rebecca Ross 36:35 - Fairyloot 38:51 - All The Light We Cannot See by Anthony Doerr 39:51 - The Rook by Daniel O'Malley 39:52 - Stiletto by Daniel O'Malley 40:26 - Bookishness We Are Thankful For 41:47 - The Lion, The Witch, and the Wardrobe by C.S. Lewis 41:56 - Harriet the Spy by Louise Fitzhugh 42:17 - Are You There? It's Me, Margaret by Judy Blume 43:52 - Matilda by Roald Dahl 44:00 - The Witches by Roald Dahl 44:01 - The Twits by Roald Dahl 44:02 - Charlie and the Chocolate Factory by Roald Dahl 45:27 - The Count of Monte Cristo by Alexandre Dumas 45:35 - A Gentleman in Moscow by Amor Towles 47:05 - A Man Called Ove by Fredrik Backman 48:16 - Lobizona by Romina Garber Russell 51:56 - A Curse So Dark and Lonely by Brigid Kemmerer 52:18 - A Court of Thorns and Roses by Sarah J. Maas 52:56 - Nevermoor by Jessica Townsend 53:30 - Cinder by Marissa Meyer 54:26 - Anne of Green Gables by L.M. Montgomery 56:04 - The Grey Wolf by Louise Penny 56:09 - Meet Us At The Fountain 56:13 - I wish you would consider the new airpod 4s as a gift to yourself this year. (Meredith) 56:16 - AirPods 4 1:01:36 - I wish to press Mr. Dickens and his Carol by Samantha Silva. (Kaytee) 1:01:37 - Mr. Dickens and his Carol by Samantha Silva  Support Us: Become a Bookish Friend | Grab Some Merch Shop Bookshop dot org | Shop Amazon Bookish Friends Receive: The Indie Press List with a curated list of five books hand sold by the indie of the month. December's IPL is a recap of the 2024 year!  Love and Chili Peppers with Kaytee and Rebekah - romance lovers get their due with this special episode focused entirely on the best selling genre fiction in the business.  All Things Murderful with Meredith and Elizabeth - special content for the scary-lovers, brought to you with the behind-the-scenes insights of an independent bookseller From the Editor's Desk with Kaytee and Bunmi Ishola - a quarterly peek behind the curtain at the publishing industry The Bookish Friends Facebook Group - where you can build community with bookish friends from around the globe as well as our hosts Connect With Us: The Show: Instagram | Website | Email | Threads The Hosts and Regulars: Meredith | Kaytee | Mary | Roxanna Production and Editing: Megan Phouthavong Evans Affiliate Disclosure: All affiliate links go to Bookshop unless otherwise noted. Shopping here helps keep the lights on and benefits indie bookstores. Thanks for your support!

Another underrated classic from the golden run of 2000 for the World Wrestling Federation. We're seeing a change of the guard with a triple main event with Triple H taking on Chris Jericho, The Undertaker vs Kurt Angle - and the man who started the year as WCW Champion Chris Benoit challenging The Rock for the WWF title.

We read fan comments, and several of you wrote us about Louise Penny.  Charlie has always been a fan (he would want me to say that) but Kate was shamefully new to her work.  But she is now a HUGE fan and has read them all and could not put down The Grey Wolf, Penny's newest and her 19th Inspector Gamache in the series. Join us for part 1 of a 2 part Book Case podcast with Louise Penny. Books mentioned in this week's episode: The Grey Wolf by Louise Penny Still Life by Louise Penny A Fatal Grace by Louise Penny The Cruelest Month by Louise Penny A Rule Against Murder by Louise Penny The Brutal Telling by Louise Penny Bury Your Dead by Louise Penny The Hangman by Louise Penny A Trick of the Light by Louise Penny The Beautiful Mystery by Louise Penny How the Light Gets In by Louise Penny The Nature of the Beast by Louise Penny A Great Reckoning by Louise Penny Glass Houses by Louise Penny Kingdom of the Blind by Louise Penny A Better Man by Louise Penny All the Devils Are Here The Madness of Crowds by Louise Penny State of Terror by Louise Penny and Hillary Rodham Clinton World of Curiosities by Louise Penny The Time of the Child by Niall Williams One Hundred Years of Solitude by Gabriel Garcia Marquez House of Spirits by Isabel Allende Monogamy by Sue Miller Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

This is a free preview of a paid episode. To hear more, visit kerryreads.substack.comThank you for being a part of Seasons 1 and 2 of BOOKSPO. This bonus episode is for paid subscribers (who also receive access to my monthly essays—there is one coming early next week about Margaret Laurence's THE DIVINERS). I hope you enjoy this behind-the-scenes glimpse into my reading life, and marriage, and our perspectives on Louise Penny's ridiculo…

On this episode of Currently Reading, Meredith and Kaytee are discussing: Bookish Moments: book buying sprees and being book pushers Current Reads: all the great, interesting, and/or terrible stuff we've been reading lately Deep Dive: how to and how not to raise readers The Fountain: we visit our perfect fountain to make wishes about our reading lives Show notes are time-stamped below for your convenience. Read the transcript of the episode (this link only works on the main site) .  .  .  .  1:29 - Our Bookish Moments Of The Week 2:04 - Thriftbooks 2:09 - I Remember You by Yrsa Sigurdardottir 2:15 - Bookshop.org 5:57 - Our Current Reads 6:09 - Us by Sara Soler (Kaytee) 8:51 - Gender Queer by Maia Kobabe 9:47 - Foe by Iain Reid (Meredith) 11:43 - I'm Thinking of Ending Things by Iain Reid 14:40 - The Wild Robot by Peter Brown (Kaytee) 16:26 - Hatchet by Gary Paulson 16:45 - CR Season 2: Episode 21 18:13 - Normal Rules Don't Apply by Kate Atkinson (Meredith) 21:24 - Shrines of Gaiety by Kate Atkinson 22:38 - How High We Go in the Dark by Sequoia Nagamatsu 23:06 - Stone Blind by Natalie Haynes (Kaytee) 23:15 - CR Season 5: Episode 31 25:07 - A Thousand Ships by Natalie Haynes 25:17 - The Children of Jacosta by Natalie Haynes 26:46 - The Grey Wolf by Louise Penny (Meredith) 30:38 - State of Terror by Louise Penny and Hillary Clinton 37:45 - Raising Readers 40:55 - CR Season 1: Episode 28 w/ Jackson and Micah 45:40 - Dungeons and Drama by Kirsty Boyce 46:29 - The Wishing Spell by Chris Colfer (Land of Stories #1) 50:26 - The Anxious Generation by Jonathan Haidt 53:23 - Meet Us At The Fountain 53:29 - I wish for someone to pick your next read. (Kaytee) 55:57 - I wish to recommend the book The Family Game by Catherine Steadman (Meredith) 55:57 -​​ The Family Game by Catherine Steadman Support Us: Become a Bookish Friend | Grab Some Merch Shop Bookshop dot org | Shop Amazon Bookish Friends Receive: The Indie Press List with a curated list of five books hand sold by the indie of the month. November's IPL comes to us from Charter Books in Newport, Rhode Island! Love and Chili Peppers with Kaytee and Rebekah - romance lovers get their due with this special episode focused entirely on the best selling genre fiction in the business.  All Things Murderful with Meredith and Elizabeth - special content for the scary-lovers, brought to you with the behind-the-scenes insights of an independent bookseller From the Editor's Desk with Kaytee and Bunmi Ishola - a quarterly peek behind the curtain at the publishing industry The Bookish Friends Facebook Group - where you can build community with bookish friends from around the globe as well as our hosts Connect With Us: The Show: Instagram | Website | Email | Threads The Hosts and Regulars: Meredith | Kaytee | Mary | Roxanna Production and Editing: Megan Phouthavong Evans Affiliate Disclosure: All affiliate links go to Bookshop unless otherwise noted. Shopping here helps keep the lights on and benefits indie bookstores. Thanks for your support!

Immunology is a key area in biotech and biopharma, both in terms of R&D and sales.However, according to UK-headquartered Greywolf Therapeutics, the industry has only focused on two-thirds of the puzzle.To have an immunological effect, you must activate the body's T cells, which cells requires a chain of three key signals. The first is antigen recognition, i.e. the initial detection of a cell by a T-cell. The second is the co-stimulation of non-antigen presenting molecules, which enhances the immune response​. The final step is cytokine-mediated differentiation and expansion, which guides how T-cells target threats. ​Companies have focused on the second two signals, with signal 2 most commonly seen in therapies such as checkpoint inhibitors and monoclonal antibodies. Signal 3, on the other hand, can be primarily seen in therapies for autoimmune disorders, such as anti-TNF and JAK inhibitors.Greywolf Therapeutics is the first company to explore changing signal 1. The company says focusing on signal 1 applies in three key therapeutic areas: oncology, autoimmunity and virology. Greywolf's first candidate has delivered a robust response during its ongoing phase I/II trial in oncology, therefore demonstrating proof-of-mechanism and target engagement, with its next candidate well-progressed in preclinical development in autoimmunity.To tell us more about the company and its work is Pete Joyce, CEO and co-founder of Greywolf Therapeutics.01:19-04:12: About Greywolf Therapeutics04:12-04:51: The origins of the name04:51-06:52: The three ‘signals' of the mechanics of immunological responses06:52-08:31: Treatments associated with each signal08:31-10:09: Why is step 1 important, and why has it not been investigated for treatments?10:09-11:28: What areas of disease is this applicable to?11:28-12:19: How do you inhibit ERAP?12:19-14:01: Greywolf Therapeutics' candidates14:01-15:11: How is this an advance on current treatments?15:11-16:05: What is success for patients?16:05-17:20: How does the stage of disease affect treatment?17:20-18:09: Are other companies looking into antigen modulation? 18:09-19:47: Has this led to investment opportunities?19:47-21:15: Next steps21:15-21:55: Do you anticipate more interest in this space?21:55-23:21: Attending events Interested in being a sponsor of an episode of our podcast? Discover how you can get involved here! Stay updated by subscribing to our newsletter

Jean Brassard, Louise Penny's choice to narrate her 19th Three Pines novel, proves an inspired selection. Host Jo Reed and AudioFile's Robin Whitten discuss how Brassard, a native Quebecois and an award-winning actor, gets each character right. Domestic terrorism takes Armand Gamache, Jean-Guy, and Isabelle from Montreal to the Vatican and to an isolated French monastery. Brasard's accents—whether French Canadian, Italian, or continental French—create indelible characters, and his pacing and storytelling skills are stunningly good. Listen to find out what awaits Gamache in this latest memorable mystery. Read our review of the audiobook at our website. Published by Macmillan Audio.  Discover thousands of audiobook reviews and more at AudioFile's website.      Support for AudioFile's Behind the Mic comes from HarperCollins Focus, and HarperCollins Christian Publishing, publishers of some of your favorite audiobooks and authors, including Reba McEntire, Max Lucado, Kathie Lee Gifford, Bob Goff, Lysa TerKeurst, and many more! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

On this episode of Currently Reading, Meredith and Kaytee are discussing: Bookish Moments: book talks in the wild and new Louise Penny books Current Reads: all the great, interesting, and/or terrible stuff we've been reading lately Deep Dive: our reading rituals The Fountain: we visit our perfect fountain to make wishes about our reading lives Show notes are time-stamped below for your convenience. Read the transcript of the episode (this link only works on the main site) .  .  .  .  1:29 - Our Bookish Moments Of The Week 2:26 - The Silent Patient by Alex Michaelides 3:37 - The Grey Wolf by Louise Penny 5:10 - Our Current Reads 5:15 - Finding Sophie by Imran Mahmood (Kaytee) 8:29 - Peg and Rose Solve a Murder by Laurien Berenson (Meredith)  12:50 - The Thursday Murder Club by Richard Osman 14:25 - Bear by Julia Phillips (Kaytee) 14:31 - Booktenders  18:24 - Winter Hours by Mary Oliver (Meredith) 19:02 - A Thousand Mornings by Mary Oliver 21:13 - The Backyard Bird Chronicles by Amy Tan 22:17 - Upstream by Mary Oliver 22:39 - The Book of Doors by Gareth Brown (Kaytee) 27:14 - CR Season 6: Episode 48 25:08 - The Book Wanderers by Anna James 27:12 - Glass Houses by Madeline Ashby (Meredith) 31:36 - Our Reading Rituals 38:47 - Book Darts 45:11 - Dual Side cooling blanket 49:36 - Meet Us At The Fountain 49:43 - I wish for you to reflect on your “grades” of your reading rituals. (Kaytee) 54:06 - I wish for you to listen to the Poirot Pals podcast if you are like me and getting through all the Hercule Poirot books by Agatha Christie. (Meredith) 54:21 - Poirot Pals Podcast Support Us: Become a Bookish Friend | Grab Some Merch Shop Bookshop dot org | Shop Amazon Bookish Friends Receive: The Indie Press List with a curated list of five books hand sold by the indie of the month. November's IPL comes to us from Charter Books in Newport, Rhode Island! Love and Chili Peppers with Kaytee and Rebekah - romance lovers get their due with this special episode focused entirely on the best selling genre fiction in the business.  All Things Murderful with Meredith and Elizabeth - special content for the scary-lovers, brought to you with the behind-the-scenes insights of an independent bookseller From the Editor's Desk with Kaytee and Bunmi Ishola - a quarterly peek behind the curtain at the publishing industry The Bookish Friends Facebook Group - where you can build community with bookish friends from around the globe as well as our hosts Connect With Us: The Show: Instagram | Website | Email | Threads The Hosts and Regulars: Meredith | Kaytee | Mary | Roxanna Production and Editing: Megan Phouthavong Evans Affiliate Disclosure: All affiliate links go to Bookshop unless otherwise noted. Shopping here helps keep the lights on and benefits indie bookstores. Thanks for your support!

It's the most controversial WCW Pay Per View in their horror run of the 2000s featuring the final ever appearance of Hulk Hogan in World Championship Wrestling, and Vince Russo's expletive laden shoot promo on The Hulkster live in the middle of the ring. It was huge 24 years ago - but how has it aged since then?

The WWF's hot streak continues as we're into the phase of building new stars in this event. Edge and Christian, The Hardy Boyz, Chris Jericho, and The Dudleys to name a few are some of the fresh faces on a PPV that features The Rock teaming up with Kane and The Undertaker to take on Triple H and the McMahons!

In this episode, I chat about my unintentionally long absence from the podcast, some fabulous quilting books, plus lots of book recommendations (including the new Louise Penny book The Grey Wolf. For complete show notes, please visit the Simple Handmade Everyday blog. 

Welcome back to another week of Bubbles & Books. This week, we're so excited to welcome children's picture book author & illustrator Jess Hannigan to the podcast. Jess is the mind behind one of our favorite books this year Spider in the Well. Her clever story has brought us so much joy this year, and we loved having the opportunity to chat about how she got started and what we can expect next.  Ellyn's Currently Reading | The Barn by Wright Thompson & O Sinners! by Nicole Cuffy Amanda's Currently Reading |  Tartufo by Kira Jane Buxton & Inciting Joy by Ross Gay Books coming out this week: The Grey Wolf by Louise Penny & The Blue Hour by Paula Hawkins ______________________________________________________________________ Make sure to subscribe and rate the Bubbles & Books Podcast. And don't forget to share it with your friends. Learn more about a Dog-Eared Books book subscription HERE. Follow us on Instagram: @bubblesandbookspodcast Follow Dog-Eared Books on Instagram: @dogearedbooksames Interested in audiobooks? Listen while supporting Dog-Eared Books HERE. Visit us! www.dogearedbooksames.com

On this episode of Currently Reading, Meredith and Kaytee are discussing: Bookish Moments: forgetting how to read and introducing new furry pals Current Reads: all the great, interesting, and/or terrible stuff we've been reading lately Deep Dive: if we retain what we read and if it matters The Fountain: we visit our perfect fountain to make wishes about our reading lives Show notes are time-stamped below for your convenience. Read the transcript of the episode (this link only works on the main site) .  .  .  .  1:28 - Our Bookish Moments of the Week 8:56 - Our Current Reads 9:00 - Packing for Mars by Mary Roach (Kaytee) 9:16 - Packing for Mars for Kids by Mary Roach 13:16 - Stiff by Mary Roach 14:34 - Death at Morning House by Maureen Johnson (Meredith) 16:38 - Truly Devious by Maureen Johnson 20:47 - Unraveling Oliver by Liz Nugent 21:09 - Love in the Time of Serial Killers by Alicia Thompson (Kaytee) 26:24 - The Devil in Winter by Lisa Kleypas (Meredith) 31:47 - The Duke Gets Desperate by Diana Quincy 32:09 - Bad Cree by Jessica Johns (Kaytee) 35:08 - Content Bookstore 36:31 - I'm Thinking of Ending Things by Iain Reid (Meredith) 36:35 - 10 Things To Tell You ep. 239 w/Meredith 37:52 - 101 Horror Books to Read Before You're Murdered by Sadie Hartmann 38:10 - Sarah's Bookshelves Live Patreon (her spoiler filled episode about Iain Reids book is on Patreon) 38:29 - Fabled Bookshop 43:18 - Foe by Iain Reid 43:32 - Retaining What We Read 44:51 - What Alice Forgot by Liane Moriarty 47:21 - A Beautiful Mystery by Louise Penny 49:30 - The Change by Kirsten Miller 51:59 - I'm Thinking of Ending Things by Iain Reid 52:50 - Eye of the World by Robert Jordan 53:04 - Hamnet by Maggie O'Farrell 53:39 - NYT article “At Capacity” 55:02 - Leave the World Behind by Rumaan Alam 55:49 - Meet Us At The Fountain 55:58 - I wish to let you know about the storyteller word a day calendar (Kaytee) 56:03 - Mrs. Wordsmith Storytellers Word a Day 58:02 - I wish the newest Louise Penny book will be good (Meredith) 58:07 - The Grey Wolf by Louise Penny Support Us: Become a Bookish Friend | Grab Some Merch Shop Bookshop dot org | Shop Amazon Bookish Friends Receive: The Indie Press List with a curated list of five books hand sold by the indie of the month. October's IPL comes to us from our anchor store, The Novel Neighbor! Love and Chili Peppers with Kaytee and Rebekah - romance lovers get their due with this special episode focused entirely on the best selling genre fiction in the business.  All Things Murderful with Meredith and Elizabeth - special content for the scary-lovers, brought to you with the behind-the-scenes insights of an independent bookseller From the Editor's Desk with Kaytee and Bunmi Ishola - a quarterly peek behind the curtain at the publishing industry The Bookish Friends Facebook Group - where you can build community with bookish friends from around the globe as well as our hosts Connect With Us: The Show: Instagram | Website | Email | Threads The Hosts and Regulars: Meredith | Kaytee | Mary | Roxanna Production and Editing: Megan Phouthavong Evans Affiliate Disclosure: All affiliate links go to Bookshop unless otherwise noted. Shopping here helps keep the lights on and benefits indie bookstores. Thanks for your support!

This week, Evan Olauson joins the podcast to discuss how he is able to maintain Greywolf Golf Course in the Rocky Mountains through the long Canadian winter.Follow us on socials:On Instagram: @officialtop100On Twitter: @top100golfVisit Our Website for all of your golf course research:www.top100golfcourses.com

The fate of Minnesota's Grey Wolf population, some immigration talk, Mike from Webster, Margaret from Wood Magic, an airline merger, and Kenny stuck his foot in his mouth on the Grey Wolf topic, Bret from Alborn, voting news from AZ, and Happy Birthday Air Force...See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

We have constantly mentioned some of the poor decisions World Championship Wrestling have made in the year 2000, but for this edition of 'The Great American Bash' we see somewhat of a new strategy from the company. A mix of old and new sees Hulk Hogan take on Billy Kidman, Sting go up against Vampiro, and Ric Flair in a battle with his son David Flair - but can it end the horrible run of WCW Pay Per Views?

On this week's Defense & Aerospace Report Business Roundtable, sponsored by Bell, Dr. Rocket Ron Epstein of Bank of America Securities, Sash Tusa of the independent equity research firm Agency Partners, and Richard Aboulafia of the AeroDynamic advisory consultancy join host Vago Muradian discuss a down week on Wall Street ending in a hard sell off; Airbus and Embraer release their order and delivery figures; Pentagon acquisition and sustainment undersecretary Dr. Bill LaPlante's decision to rescind a key approval for the the Milestone B approval of the US Air Force's Sentinel Next Generation Strategic Deterrent program led by Northrop Grumman; the European Air Safety Agency has ordered inspections of Rolls Royce engines on Airbus 350-1000 jets after a fire on a Cathay Pacific airliner; Boeing's unionized workers will vote Sept. 12 on whether to strike; the Air Force will buy from Boeing more of Leonardo's MH-139 Grey Wolf helicopters; NASA prepares to return the Boeing's StarLiner spacecraft to earth; with the Pentagon's decision to extend the lifespan of the F-35 Lightning II fighter program from 2077 to 2088, the total program cost is up to $2 trillion even as unit prices for the jets are coming down; Philippine's interest in 40 new combat aircraft.

Welcome to the Fall 2024 Book Preview with Catherine of Gilmore Guide to Books!   Today, Catherine and I share 16 of our most anticipated books releasing mid-August through December.   This post contains affiliate links through which I make a small commission when you make a purchase (at no cost to you!). CLICK HERE for the full episode Show Notes on the blog. Announcement One of the many benefits to joining our Patreon Community is that you get access to several bonus podcast episode series, including Book Preview Extras! In these episodes, Catherine and I share at least 4 bonus books we are excited about that we did not share in the big show preview episode. Get more details about all the goodies available to all patrons (Stars and Superstars) and sign up here! Highlights Catherine and Sarah share some big releases coming this fall (lightning round style). Catherine's theme is “unpredictability” — half her picks are repeat authors and the other half simply caught her eye. Sarah's choices feature 6 returning authors and overall are leaning more literary. A few shorter books from Sarah's picks: under 300 pages. Sarah has already read and rated two of her picks! Plus, their #1 picks for the fall. Big Fall Releases [1:29]  Books Mentioned By Any Other Name by Jodi Picoult (Aug 20) | Amazon | Bookshop.org  [1:56] Death at the Sign of the Rook by Kate Atkinson (Sep 3) | Amazon | Bookshop.org  [2:00] The Life Impossible by Matt Haig (Sep 3) | Amazon | Bookshop.org  [2:05] Here One Moment by Liane Moriarty (Sep 10) | Amazon | Bookshop.org  [2:11] The Mighty Red by Louise Erdrich (Oct 1) | Amazon | Bookshop.org  [2:30] Framed by John Grisham and Jim McCloskey (Oct 15) | Amazon | Bookshop.org [2:36] The Grey Wolf by Louise Penny (Oct 29) | Amazon | Bookshop.org  [2:39] The Blue Hour by Paula Hawkins (Oct 29) | Amazon | Bookshop.org  [2:45] The City and Its Uncertain Walls by Haruki Murakami (Nov 19) | Amazon | Bookshop.org  [2:51] It Starts with One: The Legend and Legacy of Linkin Park by Jason Lipshutz(Oct 1) | Amazon | Bookshop.org  [3:54] MC5: An Oral Biography of Rock's Most Revolutionary Band by Brad Tolinski, Jaan Uhelszki, and Ben Edmonds (Oct 8) | Amazon | Bookshop.org  [3:55] Never Understood: The Jesus and Mary Chain by William Reid and Jim Reid(Sep 17) | Amazon | Bookshop.org  [3:56] Scattershot: Life, Music, Elton & Me by Bernie Taupin (2023 release — in paperback Sep 10) | Amazon | Bookshop.org  [3:58] The Name of This Band Is R.E.M.: A Biography by Peter Ames Carlin (Nov 5) | Amazon | Bookshop.org  [3:59] Backlist Titles Mentioned The Midnight Library by Matt Haig [2:08] The Measure by Nikki Erlick [2:27] The Girl on the Train by Paula Hawkins [2:45] 1Q84 by Haruki Murakami [3:02] What I Talk About When I Talk About Running by Haruki Murakami [3:25] Fall 2024 Book Preview [6:34] Mid-August Catherine's Pick There Are Rivers in the Sky by Elif Shafak (Aug 20) | Amazon | Bookshop.org[9:22] Other Books Mentioned The Island of Missing Trees by Elif Shafak [11:03]  10 Minutes 38 Seconds in This Strange World by Elif Shafak [11:12]  September Sarah's Picks Guide Me Home by Attica Locke (Sep 3) | Amazon | Bookshop.org [7:11] Madwoman by Chelsea Bieker (Sep 3) | Amazon | Bookshop.org [11:41] The Siege by Ben Macintyre (Sep 10) | Amazon | Bookshop.org  [18:03]  Entitlement by Rumaan Alam (Sep 17) | Amazon | Bookshop.org  [22:37]  A Reason to See You Again by Jami Attenberg (Sep 24) | Amazon | Bookshop.org  [28:00] Adam and Evie's Matchmaking Tour by Nora Nguyen (Sep 24) | Amazon | Bookshop.org [33:45] Catherine's Picks Dear Dickhead by Virginie Despentes (Sep 10) | Amazon | Bookshop.org [15:37] Bringer of Dust by J. M. Miro (Sep 17) | Amazon | Bookshop.org  [20:28]  Other Books Mentioned Bluebird, Bluebird by Attica Locke [7:21]  Heaven, My Home by Attica Locke [7:24] The Cutting Season by Attica Locke [7:55] Godshot by Chelsea Bieker [15:08]  The Spy and the Traitor by Ben Macintyre [18:12]  Ordinary Monsters by J. M. Miro [20:41]  Leave the World Behind by Rumaan Alam [22:57]  Trust by Hernan Diaz [23:45]  Such a Fun Age by Kiley Reid [23:48]  All This Could Be Yours by Jami Attenberg [28:06] Saint Mazie by Jami Attenberg [28:09] The Middlesteins by Jami Attenberg [28:10] Memphis by Tara M. Stringfellow [29:39] Banyan Moon by Thao Tai [29:44] The Sicilian Inheritance by Jo Piazza [34:37] The Women by Kristin Hannah [35:44] October Sarah's Picks The Sequel by Jean Hanff Korelitz (Oct 1) | Amazon | Bookshop.org [39:18] (To skip ahead, jump to [44:55] in your podcast player.) Shred Sisters by Betsy Lerner (Oct 1) | Amazon | Bookshop.org [46:44]  Catherine's Picks A Song to Drown Rivers by Ann Liang (Oct 1) | Amazon | Bookshop.org  [26:11]  The Puzzle Box by Danielle Trussoni (Oct 8) | Amazon | Bookshop.org [30:59] Libby Lost and Found by Stephanie Booth (Oct 15) | Amazon | Bookshop.org[36:48] Like Mother, Like Mother by Susan Rieger (Oct 29) | Amazon | Bookshop.org [44:56]  Other Books Mentioned The Puzzle Master by Danielle Trussoni [31:07] A Game of Thrones by George R. R. Martin [38:43] The Plot by Jean Hanff Korelitz [39:23] The Swans of Fifth Avenue by Melanie Benjamin [42:23]  Capote's Women by Laurence Leamer [42:27]  It Starts with Us by Colleen Hoover [43:39]  The Heirs by Susan Rieger [45:04]  The Forest for the Trees by Betsy Lerner [46:56]  Happiness Falls by Angie Kim [47:53]  November Catherine's Pick The Courting of Bristol Keats by Mary E. Pearson (Nov 12) | Amazon | Bookshop.org [48:53] 

Interview aired the weekend of 8/16/24

We've got returning podcast guest Matthew Greywolf of Powerwolf on the show this week! With the new album Wake Up The Wicked set to release on July 26, Powerwolf is poised to get your attention in the coming days. As such, we discuss with Greywolf the cinematic music videos that accompany each new album track, the band's decision to use practical effects instead of CGI, and when he first discovered the story of Peter Stump  would have an influence on the storytelling of the album. We also chat about what it feels like to be featured on a billboard in Times Square, the return of Powerwolf to North America after the successful run in 2023, the importance of bringing justice to your past catalog every time you write a new chapter of songs for fans, as well as a whole lot more. Petar, Sylvia, and Jozalyn tackle on the hectic week that lead to the hiatus of Tenacious D, we breakdown the off color improvised joke Kyle Gass said, the immediate reaction from the fans in Australia and bandmate Jack Black, the apology the Kyle Gass put on his Instagram, and then us reacting to him removing the apology days later. Song: Powerwolf “Sinners Of The Seven Seas” Song: Powerwolf “1589” Song: AFI “Malleus Maleficarum” Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

In Focus recently paid a visit to Maxwell Air Force Base to view the state-of-the-art Grey Wolf helicopter. Instructor pilots Lt. Col. Derek Cumbie, 58 Operations Group Detachment 3 Commander, and Lt. Col. William Kyle Wamser of the 908th Airlift Wing Program Integration Office, sat down with Carolyn Hutcheson to discuss the helicopter and its critical mission.  This is part one of a two-part interview.

On July 4th, In Focus features part two of an interview at Maxwell AFB about the new Air Force MH-139 Grey Wolf helicopter. Instructor pilots Lt. Col. Derek Cumbie,  58 Operations Group Detachment 3 Commander, and Lt. Col. Kyle Cumbie with the 908th Airlift Wing, Alabama's only Air Force Reserve Unit, talk with Carolyn Hutcheson of In Focus about why they chose to serve their country in the U.S. military.  Lt. Col. Wamser was a rescue pilot in the Iraq and Afghanistan wars.

****** Discuss this episode in the H-Hour community today on Discord: https://discord.gg/ncFRpvTkjX ***** Andy Lockwood is a leadership, performance and culture consultant. He is the founder of The Rugby Outreach Project, Sports Vacancies and Grey Wolf Teams. In this episode he discusses the concept of empathy and its impact on team performance in sports, particularly in football. He shares his research on the three pillars of effective teams: shared experience, mutual understanding, and empathy. Lockwood highlights a study on an Italian football team that found increased levels of empathy led to more shots on goal and increased performance. He also explores the role of empathy in other industries, such as business and the military. Lockwood discusses his own work in implementing empathy-related strategies in sports teams and organizations. The conversation covers various topics related to rugby, including the impact of money on the sport, the challenges at grassroots level, the differences between rugby union and rugby league, and the success of the Japanese team in the Rugby World Cup. The conversation also touches on the treatment of team managers in football compared to rugby, the importance of soft skills in recruitment, and the need for adaptability in post-military careers.

For review:1.  Israel Prime Minister (Benjamin Netanyahu): Rafah Operation With or Without Hostage Deal.2. Israel to Retire Patriot ADA Systems- in service since 1991. 3. International Court of Justice: No action against Germany for arms sales to Israel.4. USS Dwight D. Eisenhower (CVN-69) transit Suez Canal from Red Sea to Mediterranean Sea. Carrier deployed on 13 October 2023 to Red Sea. Expected replacement carrier will be the USS Harry S. Truman (CVN 75). 5. Russia displays captured M1 Tank in Moscow. Tank captured from combat operations near the city of Avdiivka.6. Russia Says it Shot Down 6 x ATACMS (Army Tactical Missile System).7. USAF MH-139A Grey Wolf Helicopter breaches Nunn-McCurdy Act.Helicopter purpose is to patrol USAF Nuclear Missile Silos.8. USMC Force Design concept learning from Houthi anti-ship tactics in the Red Sea. 

It's National Library Week...Ready, Set, CELEBRATE!! Tune into this episode to hear all about what have planned for the week and to celebrate the new library WIN!  Amy has awesome book reviews and Sue Ries is joining us to tell us all about the up coming Friends of the Library Plant Sale. Drop in and celebrate with us! Cheers!! Amy's Recommendations: Books I've Read Recently I Enjoyed: Martyr! By Kaveh Akhbar Family, Family by Laurie Frankel (she also wrote One Two Three & This is How It Always Is) The Frozen River by Ariel Lawhon (Code Name Helene & I Was Anastasia) The Djinn Waits A Hundred Years by Shubnum Khan After Annie by Anna Quindlen The Heaven and Earth Grocery Store by James McBride Table For Two by Amor Towles   New Books I'm Looking Forward to Reading: (all these books came out in March 2024) The Hunter by Tana French (it's a sequel to The Searcher! Read that one first) The Great Divide by Cristina Enriquez Annie Bot by Sierra Greer Finlay Donovan Rolls the Dice by Elle Cosimano All books in the series: Finlay Donovan is Killing It FInlay Donovan Knocks Em' Dead Finlay Donovan Jumps the Gun Also a Short story, Veronica Ruiz Breaks the Bank   Upcoming Books I Want to Read: The Familiar by Leigh Bardugo - April 9 Daughter of Mine by Megan Miranda - April 9 Funny Story by Emily Henry - April 23rd The Demon of Unrest by Eric Larson - April 30th   The Grey Wolf by Louise Penny - October 29th The Jackal's Mistress by Chris Bohjalian - March 2025  

❓️ What did you think of this episode?

❓️ What did you think of this episode?

❓️ What did you think of this episode?

❓️ What did you think of this episode?

On this episode of Currently Reading, Meredith and Kaytee are discussing: Bookish Moments: even more bookshelves and Meredith potentially meeting authors Current Reads: all the great, interesting, and/or terrible stuff we've been reading lately Deep Dive: tropes we are tired of reading The Fountain: we visit our perfect fountain to make wishes about our reading lives Show notes are time-stamped below for your convenience. Read the transcript of the episode (this link only works on the main site) .  .  .  .  .  1:32 - Our Bookish Moments of the Week 3:46 - Laundry Love by Patrick Richardson 4:11 - Ikea Ivar System (Kaytee mixed and matched as needed/wanted) 5:09 - Hamptons Whodunit 8:25  - Our Current Reads 8:36 - The Kingdom Over the Sea by Zohra Nabi (Kaytee) 8:42 - Foyles UK 10:02 - The Extremely Inconvenient Adventures of Bronte Mettlestone by Jaclyn Moriarty 10:05 - The Adventures of Amina Al-Sirafi by Shannon Chakraborty 10:07 - The Ten Thousand Doors of January by Alix E. Harrow 11:15 - Nevermoor by Jessica Townsend 11:46 - The Work of Art by Mimi Matthews (Meredith) 15:59 - The Duchess Deal by Tessa Dare 16:37 - The Morning Show Murders by Al Roker (Kaytee) 16:49 - Libro.fm 20:01 - While Idaho Slept by J. Reuben Appelman (Meredith) 26:14 - Soil by Camille T. Dungy (Kaytee) 29:35 - The Cabin in the Woods by Sarah Alderson (Meredith) 33:29 - Deep Dive: Tropes We Are Tired Of Reading 34:23 - Gone Girl by Gillian Flynn 49:14 - Meet Us At The Fountain 49:20 - I wish to give all our listeners a heads up about Booktenders, the indie bookstore. (Kaytee) 49:20 - @Booktenderswv on Instagram 51:26 - I wish we would get more content around books besides JUST a blurb and a tour - for example, a book trailer. (Meredith) 52:31 - @birdbrainbooks on Instagram  52:38 - @heartsanddaggerspod on Instagram 54:04 - The Grey Wolf by Louise Penny Support Us: Become a Bookish Friend | Grab Some Merch Shop Bookshop dot org | Shop Amazon Bookish Friends Receive: The Indie Press List with a curated list of five books hand sold by the indie of the month. February's IPL is brought to you by Booktenders in Huntington, West Virginia. Trope Thursday with Kaytee and Bunmi - a behind the scenes peek into the publishing industry All Things Murderful with Meredith and Elizabeth - special content for the scary-lovers, brought to you with the special insights of an independent bookseller The Bookish Friends Facebook Group - where you can build community with bookish friends from around the globe as well as our hosts Connect With Us: The Show: Instagram | Website | Email | Threads The Hosts and Regulars: Meredith | Kaytee | Mary | Roxanna Affiliate Disclosure: All affiliate links go to Bookshop unless otherwise noted. Shopping here helps keep the lights on and benefits indie bookstores. Thanks for your support!

❓️ What did you think of this episode?

❓️ What did you think of this episode?

❓️ What did you think of this episode?

❓️ What did you think of this episode?

❓️ What did you think of this episode?

On this episode of Currently Reading, Meredith and Kaytee are discussing: Bookish Moments: bookish pre-orders and picking the right books for ourselves Current Reads: all the great, interesting, and/or terrible stuff we've been reading lately Deep Dive: Bookish Friends' best and worst books of 2023, with interesting overlaps! The Fountain: we visit our perfect fountain to make wishes about our reading lives Show notes are time-stamped below for your convenience. Read the transcript of the episode (this link only works on the main site) .  .  .  .  .  2:19 - Currently Reading Patreon (sign up for a 7 day free trial and check out all the goodness!) 7:42 - Our Bookish Moments of the Week 10:57 - The God of the Woods by Liz Moore (pre-order, releases June 11, 2024) 11:01 - Long Bright River by Liz Moore 12:51 - Fabled Bookshop 14:29  - Our Current Reads 14:42 - The Elephants of Thula Thula by Francoise Malby-Anthony (Kaytee) 15:09 - The Elephant Whisperer by Lawrence Anthony and Graham Spence 18:04 - The Serpent & the Wings of Night by Carissa Broadbent (Meredith) 20:32 - A Court of Thorns and Roses by Sarah J. Maas 20:35 - Twilight by Stephanie Meyer 24:12 - Erasure by Percival Everett (Kaytee) 29:48 - The Trees by Percival Everett 30:42 - What the Dead Know by Barbara Butcher (Meredith) 35:28 - The Trauma Cleaner by Sarah Krasnostein 36:51 - Thieves' Gambit by Kayvion Lewis (Kaytee) 36:56 - The Inheritance Games by Jennifer Lynn Barnes 40:38 - The River We Remember by William Kent Krueger (Meredith) 45:31 - This Tender Land by William Kent Krueger 46:11 - Iron Lake by William Kent Krueger  46:20 - Ordinary Grace by Willam Kent Krueger 46:42 - Deep Dive: Bookish Friends' Best and Worst Reads of 2023 46:51 - Currently Reading Patreon 50:35 - Fourth Wing by Rebecca Yarros (#1 best AND worst read) 51:25 - Covenant of Water by Abraham Verghese (#5 favorite) 51:28 - Demon Copperhead by Barbara Kingsolver (#4 favorite) 51:32 - Hello Beautiful by Anne Napolitano (#3 favorite) 51:36 - Tom Lake by Ann Patchett (#2 favorite) 51:49 - The Wishing Game by Meg Shaffer (#5 least favorite)  51:54 - Pineapple Street by Jenny Jackson (tied #3 least favorite) 51:56 - Happy Place by Emily Henry (tied #3 least favorite) 51:59 - I Have Some Questions For You by Rebecca Makkai (#2 least favorite) 52:23 - Shark Heart by Emily Habeck 52:46 - Happiness Falls by Angie Kim 53:46 - Lessons in Chemistry by Bonnie Garmus 53:47 - Remarkably Bright Creatures by Shelby Van Pelt 54:39 - Romantic Comedy by Curtis Sittenfeld 54:46 - Iron Flame by Rebecca Yarros 57:58 - The Whispers by Ashley Audrain 59:05 - The Many Lives of Mama Love by Lara Love Hardin 59:17 - Sarah's Bookshelves Interview with Lara Love Hardin 1:01:37 - Meet Us At The Fountain 1:01:45 - I wish for  more duologies in the bookish universe. (Kaytee) 1:02:12 - The Grey Wolf by Louise Penny 1:02:45 - I want those who love mysteries, thriller and horror to follow @mother.horror on Instagram (Meredith) 1:03:34 - Mother Horror Patreon 1:03:51 - Near the Bone by Christina Henry 1:04:09 - The Vaster Wilds by Lauren Groff Support Us: Become a Bookish Friend | Grab Some Merch Shop Bookshop dot org | Shop Amazon Bookish Friends Receive: The Indie Press List with a curated list of five books hand sold by the indie of the month. February's IPL is brought to you by Booktenders in Huntington, West Virginia. Trope Thursday with Kaytee and Bunmi - a behind the scenes peek into the publishing industry All Things Murderful with Meredith and Elizabeth - special content for the scary-lovers, brought to you with the special insights of an independent bookseller The Bookish Friends Facebook Group - where you can build community with bookish friends from around the globe as well as our hosts Connect With Us: The Show: Instagram | Website | Email | Threads The Hosts and Regulars: Meredith | Kaytee | Mary | Roxanna Affiliate Disclosure: All affiliate links go to Bookshop unless otherwise noted. Shopping here helps keep the lights on and benefits indie bookstores. Thanks for your support!

❓️ What did you think of this episode?

❓️ What did you think of this episode?

Evan Bell brings historian Norman Thorne back as his guest on UFOs Tonight to debate alien abductions with Dr. Elsa Braunschweiger; Swan, Phillips, Becky and Timmy encounter a UFO on a deserted road. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Chris Smith is the Southwest Wildlife Advocate for WildEarth Guardians and Greta Anderson is the Deputy Director for Western Watersheds Project. We were lucky enough to have both of them on the podcast to discuss Asha, the Mexican Grey Wolf who was traveling beyond the I-40 boundary. During our discussion, Asha was re-captured and will ultimately be transported back inside the recovery area. Chris and Greta described the impact Asha's story has made throughout the environmental community, what they hope her story does for future conservation of Mexican Grey Wolves and their thoughts on wolf recovery in the Southwest United States. @wildearthguardians@westernwatershedsproject@thewolfconnectionpodAdvocates Urge Agencies to Let Asha Roam FreeAsha's Visit to Northern New Mexico Offers Hope for RecoveryAsha the Roaming Mexican Grey Wolf Captured in New Mexico

Join co-hosts Annie Liontas and Lito Velázquez in conversation with LitFriends Lucy Corin & Deb Olin Unferth about their travels in the Sahara, ancient chickens, disappointments, true love, and why great books are so necessary. Our next episode will feature Melissa Febos & Donika Kelly, out December 22, 2023.   Links Libsyn Blog www.annieliontas.com www.litovelazquez.com https://www.lucycorin.com https://debolinunferth.com LitFriends LinkTree LitFriends Insta LitFriends Facebook   Transcript Annie Lito (00:00.118) Welcome to Lit Friends! Hey Lit Friends!   Lito: Welcome to the show.    Annie: Today we're speaking with Lucy Corin and Deb Olin Unferth, great writers, thinkers, and LitFriend besties.    Lito:  About chickens, the Sahara, and bad reviews.    Annie: So grab your bestie   Annie & Lito: And get ready to get lit!   Lito: You know those like stones that you can get when you're on like a trip to like Tennessee somewhere or something, they're like worry stones? Like people used to like worry them with their thumb or something whenever they had a problem and it would like supposedly calm you down. Well, it's not quite the same thing, but I love how Deb describes her and Lucy's relationship is like, “worry a problem with me.” Like let's, let's cut this gem from all the angles and really like rub it down to its essential context and meaning and understanding. And I think essentially that's what like writers, great writers, offer the world. They've worked through a problem and they have answers. There's not one answer, there's not a resolution to it, but the answers that lead to better, more better questions.    Annie: Yeah, and there's something so special about them because they're, worry tends to be something we do in isolation, almost kind of worrying ourselves into the ground.   Lito: Right. Annie: But they're doing it together in collaboration.    Lito: It's a collaborative worry. Yes, I love that.    Annie: A less lonely worrying.    Lito: It's a less lonely place to think through these things. And the intimacy between them is so special. The way I think they just weave in and out of their lives with each other, even though they're far away from each other.   I think there's a romantic notion that you're tuned into about Lucy and Deb's trip to the desert. Do you want to say something about that? There's a metaphor in it that you really love, right?    Annie: (1:52) Yeah. Well, so I remember when we first talked about doing this podcast and invited them, we were at a bar at AWP, the writer's conference. And they were like, oh, this is perfect. We just went to the Sahara together. And I was like, what? You writers just decided to take a trip together through the desert? And they said, yeah, it was perfect. And they have adorable photos, which we of course are going to share with the world. Um, but it felt like such a, I mean, the fact that they would go on that kind of adventure together and didn't really plan ahead, I think it was just Deb saying, I really want to go to the desert. And Lucy saying, sure, let's go. Which feels very much a kind of metonym of their friendship in some ways.    Lito: Absolutely.    Annie: (2:42) Yeah. That they wandered these spaces together. They come back to art, right? Art is a way for them to recreate themselves and recreate their friendship. And they're doing such different things on the page.    Lito:  Oh yeah, no, they're very different writers but they do share a curiosity that's unique I think in their friendship, then unique to them.    Annie: Yeah and a kind of rigorousness and a love for the word.    Lito: (3:10) Oh and a love for thinking and reading the world in every capacity.    Annie: Tell me about your friendship with Lucy because you're quite close.   Lito: I was at UC Davis before it was an MFA program. It was just a Master's. After undergrad, I went to the master's program because I wasn't sure if I wanted to be an academic or do the studio option and get an MFA. I loved how Lucy and the other professors there, Pam Houston, Yiyun Li, showed us the different ways to be a writer. They couldn't be more different, the three of them. And, I particularly was drawn to Lucy because of her sense of art and play and how those things interact.    Lito: (03:59) And here was someone that was extremely cerebral, extremely intelligent, thinking through every aspect of existence. And yet it was all done through the idea of play and experimentation, but not experimentation in that sort of like negative way that we think of experimentation, which is to say writing that doesn't work, but experimentation in the sense of innovation. And. Lucy brought out my sense of play. I got it right away, what she was going for, that there is an intellectual pleasure to the work of reading and writing that people in the world respond to, but don't often articulate. Lucy's able to articulate it, and I admire her forever for that.    Lito: (4:52) And perhaps I'm not speaking about our friendship, but it comes from a place of deep admiration for the work that she does and the way she approaches life. You have a special relationship with Deb. I would love to hear more about that.    Annie: (5:04) Yeah, I think I've been fangirling over Deb for years. Deb is such a special person. I mean, she's incredibly innovative and has this agility on the page, like almost no other writer I know. Also quite playful, but I love most her humanity. Deb is a vegan who, in Barn 8, brings such life to chickens in a way that we as humans rarely consider. There's an amazing scene which she's like with a chicken 2000 years into the future. Also, I know Deb through my work with Pen City, her writing workshop with incarcerated writers at the Connally Unit, a maximum security penitentiary in Southern Texas.   Lito: How does that work? Is it all by letter or do you go there?    Annie: (5:58) Well, the primary program, you know, the workshop that Deb teaches is on site, and it's certified. So students are getting, the incarcerated writers, are getting now college credit because it's an accredited program. So Deb will be on site and work with them directly. And those of us who volunteer as mentors, the program has evolved a little bit since then, (06:22) but it's kind of a pen pal situation. So I had a chance to work with a number of writers, some who had been there for years and years. And a lot of folks are writing auto-fiction or fiction that's deeply inspired by the places they've lived and their experiences. It's such a special program, it's such a special experience. And what I saw from Deb was just this absolute fierceness. You know, like Deb can appear to be fragile in some ways (06:53.216), and it's her humanity, but actually there's this solid steel core to Deb, and it's about fortitude and a kind of moral alignment that says, we need to do better.    Lito: We have this weird connotation with the word fragile that it's somehow bad, but actually, what it means is that someone's vulnerable. And to me, there is no greater superpower than vulnerability, especially with art, and especially in artwork that is like what she does at the penitentiary. But, can I ask a question?    Annie:  Sure.   Lito: Why is it so special working with incarcerated folks?    Annie: (7:27) Oh, that's a great question. I mean, we need its own podcast to answer it.   Lito: Of course, but just sort of the...    Annie:  I think my personal experience with it is that so many incarcerated writers have been disenfranchised on all levels of identity and experience. Voting rights, decent food, accommodations, mental health, physical, you know, physical well-being. And we can't solve all those problems necessarily, at least all at once, and it's an up, it's a constant battle. But nothing to me offers or recognizes a person's humanity like saying, "tell us your story. Tell us what's on your mind. We are here to hear you and listen."  And those stories and they do come out, you know, there have been other programs that have done this kind of work, they get out in the world and there's, we're bridging this gap of people we have almost entirely forgotten out of absolute choice.  (8:27) And Deb is doing that work, really, I mean she's been doing that work for a long time and finally got some recognition for it, but Deb does it because she's committed.   Lito: That is really powerful. Tell us your story. Tell us your story, Lit Fam. Tell us your story. Find us in all your social media @LitFriendsPodcast or email us at LitFriendsPodcast@gmail.com   Annie: We will read all your stories. We'll be right back with Lucy and   Deb.   Lito: (09:00) And now, our interview with Lucy Corrin and Deb. Lucy Corin is the author of two short story collections, 100 Apocalypses and Other Apocalypses and The Entire Predicament, and two novels, Everyday Psychokillers and The Swank Hotel. In addition to winning the Rome Prize, Lucy was awarded a fellowship in literature from the NEA. She is a 2023 Guggenheim Fellow and a professor of English in the MFA program at UC Davis.    Annie:  Deb Olin-Unferth is the author of six books, including Barn 8, and her memoir, Revolution: The Year I Fell in Love and Went to Join the War, which was a finalist for the National Book Critics Circle Award. Deb is an associate professor in creative writing at the University of Texas at Austin. She founded and runs Pen City Writers, a two-year creative writing certificate program at Connally, a maximum security prison in southern Texas. For this work, she was awarded the 2017 Texas Governor's Criminal Justice Service Award.   Lito: (09:58) Annie and I thought this up a year ago, and we were talking about what is special about literary friendships and how writing gets made, not as we all think, totally solitary in our rooms alone, but we have conversations, at least I think this way. They're part of long conversations with our friends, our literary friends and living and dead, and you know, all times, in all times of history.   But the idea here is that we get to talk to our literary friends and people we admire and writers who are close friends with each other and friendships in which literature plays a large role.   Annie: (10:37) Yeah, and I'll just add that when we first floated the idea of this podcast, you know, your names came up immediately. We're so in awe of you as people and practitioners and literary citizens, and we love your literary friendship. I mean, I really hold it dear as one of the best that I know of personally.    Lucy, I think of you as, you know, this craftsperson of invention who's always trying to undo what's been done and who's such an amazing mentor to emerging writers. And Deb, you know, I'm always returning to your work to see the world in a new way, to see something I might have missed. And I just, I'm so moved by your generosity in your work and in your life's work with Penn City and elsewhere, which I'm sure we'll have a chance to talk more about.   Annie: (11:30) But I think I recall the first day I realized how close the two of you were when Deb told me that you all were taking a trip to the Sahara. And I was like, oh, of course, like, of course, they're going to have desert adventures together. Like, this makes so much sense. So I hope we'll, you know, we'll talk more about that too.    Annie (11:53) But we're so grateful to have you here and to have you in our lives. And we're going to ask you some questions to get to know a little bit more about you.    Deb:  Sounds great.    Lucy: Thanks.    Deb: It's great to be here. It's really great to see everybody.    Lito: Thank you so much for being here. Deb, will you tell us about Lucy?   Deb: (12:16) I mean, Lucy's just one of my very favorite people. And I feel like our friendship just started really slowly and just kind of grew over a period of many years. And some of the things that I love about Lucy is she is, well, of course, she's a brilliant genius writer. Like, I mean, no one writes weird like Lucy writes weird and no one writes like more emotionally, and more inventively and some of her books are some of my favorite books that have ever been written. Especially her last two books I think have just been such just major literary accomplishments and I just hold them so dear.    (13:05) And as a friend some things that I really love about her is that she will worry a problem with me that's just bugging me about like literary culture or about writing or about, you know, just it could be anything about aesthetics at all. And then she'll literally talk to me about it for like five or six days straight without stopping. Like we'll just constantly, dinner after dinner, like, you know, if we're on a trip together, just like all day, like I'll wake up in the morning and I'll be like, here's another piece of that pie. And then she'll say, oh, and I was thinking, and then we'll like go off and work and then we'll come back at lunch and be like, "and furthermore," you know? And by the end, I remember at one point we were doing this and she said, this is a very interesting essay you're writing. And of course, like it wasn't an essay at all, but it was just like a way of thinking about the way that we were talking.   (14:06) And then she is hilarious and delightful and just like so warm. I don't know, I just love her to pieces. She's just one of my favorite people in the whole world. I could say more, but I'll stop right there for a minute.    Annie: Lucy, tell us about Deb.    Lucy: (14:24) Yeah, I mean, Deb, I mean, the first thing, I mean, the first thing you'll notice is that Deb is sort of effortlessly enthusiastic about the things that she cares about. And that's at the core of the way that she moves through the world and the way that she encounters people and the way that she encounters books.   (14:44) I'm more reserved, so I'll just preface what I'm going to say by saying that like, my tone might not betray my true enthusiasms, but I'll try to list some of the things that I think are special and extraordinary about my friend Deb.   One is that there's this conversation that never stops between the way that she's thinking about her own work and the way that she's thinking about the state of the world and the way that she's thinking about the very specific encounters that she's having in daily life. And so like moving through a conversation with Deb or moving through a period of time with Deb in the world, those things are always in flux and in conversation. So it's a really wonderful mind space to be in, to be in her presence.   (15:35) The other thing is that she's like the most truly ethical person that I am close to and in the sense that like she thinks really hard about every move she makes.   The comparison I would make is like you know Deb is like at the core like, the first thing you might notice about Deb's work is that she's a stylist, that she works sentence by sentence and that she always does. But then the other thing she does is that she's always thinking hard about the world and the work, that it never stays purely a love of the sentence. The love of the sentence is part of the love of trying to understand the relationship between words and the world.    (16:15) And, and they're both an ethics. I think it's an ethics of aesthetics and an ethics of trying to be alive in as decent way as you can manage. And so those things feed into the friendship where she's one of the people who I know will tell me what she really thinks about something because we can have a baseline of trust where then you can talk about things that are either dangerous or you might have different ideas about things or you may have conflict.    (16:47) But because of my sense of who she is as a person, and also who she is with me, we can have challenging conversations about what's right about how to behave and what's right about how to write. And that also means that when the other parts of friendship, which are just like outside of literature, but always connected, which, you know, about your own, you know, your other friendships, your, the rest of your life, your job, your family, things like that, that you wanna talk about with your friends. Yeah, I don't know anybody better to sort through those things than Deb.    And it's in part because we're writers, and you can't separate out the questions that you're having about the other parts of your life from who you're trying to be as a writer. And that's always built into the conversation.   Annie: (17:40) I knew we asked you here for a reason.   Lito: We'll be right back.    Lito (17:58) Back to the show.    Annie: I'm hearing you, you know, you're both, you're sort of really seeing one another, which is really lovely. You know, you're, Deb, you're talking about Lucy wearing a problem with you, which I think conveys a kind of strength and... Of course, like I'm quite familiar with Deb's like strong moral anchors. I think we all are and truly respect, but I'm just wondering, what do you most admire about your friend? What do you think they give to the world in light of this portrait that you've given us?   Deb: (18:28) Lucy is a very careful thinker, and she's incredibly fair. And I've just seen her act, just behave that way and write that way for so many years and it just the quality of it always surprises me.  Like I mean, there was a writer, most recently there was a writer who's been cancelled, who we have spent an enormous amount of time talking about and trying to figure out just exactly what was going on there. And I felt like Lucy had insights into what had happened and what it was like on his end and what about his culture could have influenced what happened. Just all of these things that were.   (19:36.202) It was so insightful and I felt like there's no way that I could have moved that moved forward that many steps in my understanding of what had happened. And in my own like how I was going to approach what had happened. Like there's no way I could have done that without that just constant just really careful thought and really fair thought. Just like trying to deeply understand. Like Lucy has an emotional intelligence that is just completely unparalleled. That's one thing I really love about her.    Another thing is that she's like up for anything. Like when I asked her to go to the Sahara with me, I mean, she said yes in like, it was like not even 12 seconds. It was like 3 seconds, I think, that she was like, yeah.   Annie: You need a friend who is just gonna go to the Sahara.    Lucy: Deb, I don't even know if you actually invited me. The way I remember it is that you said something like, Lucy, no one will go to the Sahara with me. And I said, I would go to the Sahara with you.   Lito: That is lovely.   Lucy: (20:53) It's in Africa, right?    Lito:  Was there something specific about the Sahara that you need to go over for?   Deb:  Yeah, I mean, there was. It's a book I'm still working on, hopefully finishing soon. But it's mostly it's like...I just always wanted to go to the Sahara. My whole life, I wanted to go to Morocco, I wanted to go to the Sahara, I wanted to be surrounded by just sand and one line. You look in 360 degrees and you just see one line. I just wanted to see what that was like so badly, stripping everything out, coming down to just that one element of blue and beige. I just wanted that so much. And I wanted to know that it just went on and on and on and on.   (21:48) Yeah, and you know, people talk a big talk, but most people would not go. And so at one point I was just kind of rallying, asking everyone. And then Lucy happened to be in town and I just mentioned to her that this is happening. And then she said, yeah, and then we went for like a long time. Like we went to Morocco for like over three weeks. Like we went for like a month.    Lucy:  A month.    Deb: Yeah, crazy. But she's always like that. Like whatever I want to do, she's just up for it. I mean, and she called me up and she's like, hey, we want to come to Austin and like, go to this place that's two hours from Austin where you can see five million bats, right? Five million bats? Or was it more? Was it like 20 million?    Lucy:  That's right.    Deb: It was like 20 million bats and a lot of them are baby bats. It's like mama bats and baby bats.     Lucy: Yeah, like it's more when there's the babies.   Deb: (22:46) And yeah, and you were like, I want to come with them as the babies. Yeah, we like went and she just like came and Andrea came, and it was just absolutely beautiful.    Lucy: Well, you were just right for that adventure. I knew you would want to see some bats.    Lucy: Well, I could I could say a couple of more things about what Deb gives the world.    Annie: Sure. Love it.    Lucy: So some of the things that Deb gives the world and though when I listen to you talking about me, I realized why these things are so important to me, is that you have a very steady sense of who you are and a kind of confidence in your instincts. That I know that some of the ways that I worry things through are really productive and some of them are just an ability to see why I could be wrong all the time, and that can stymie me.    (23:48) And one of the things that I love about you and the model that you provide for me in my life is an ability to understand what your truth is and not be afraid to hold onto it while you're thinking about other people's perspectives, that you're able to really tell the difference between the way that other people think about things and the way that you do.   And it doesn't mean that you don't rethink things, you constantly are, but when you have a conviction, you don't have a problem with having a conviction. And I admire it enormously. And I think it allows you to have a kind of openness to the world and an openness to people who are various and different and will challenge you and will show you new things because you have that sense that you're not gonna lose yourself in the wind.    Deb: Mmm. That's really nice.   Lito: I am in awe of everything you've said about each other. And it makes me think about how you first met each other. Can you tell us that story? And why did you keep coming back? What was the person like when you first met? And why did you keep coming back to each other? Do you want to tell Lucy?     Lucy: Yeah, I'll start and you can add what I'm missing and... (25:06) tell a different origin story if you want. But I think that what we might've come to for our origin story is that it was one of the, one of the early &Now Festivals. And the &Now Festival is really great.   Lito: Could you say what that is? Yeah, say a little bit about what that is.   Luch: Oh, it's a literary conference that was started to focus on small press and more innovative—is the term that they used at the time anyhow—innovative writing as a kind of response to the market-driven culture of AWP and to try to get people who are working more experimentally or more like on the edge of literary culture less mainstream and give them a place to come together and have conversations about writing and share their work.   So it was one of the early ones of those. But I think it was, I think we figured out that there were like, yeah, there were three women. It was me, you, and Shelley Jackson. But it was, there were not that many women at this conference at the time. And we were, and I think we were noting, noting our solidarity. Yeah. And that, that's what. That's like some of the first images.   But I knew we were like aware of each other because in some ways we have tended to be up for the same jobs—Deb gets them—up for the same prizes—Deb gets them first, I'll get them later. And so I see her as somebody who's traveling through the literary world in ways that are... I mean, we're very different writers, but as people... You know what I mean? But I still... We still actually...come from a lot of the same literary roots. And so it makes sense that there's something of each other in the work that makes us appeal to overlapping parts of the literary world.   Deb: Yeah, I definitely think that there was in our origins, not only do we come from the same sort of influences, and just things that we admired and stuff, but I also feel like (27:28.018) a lot of our early work would have appealed more easily to the exact same people. As we've gotten older, our work isn't quite as similar. We're a little more different than we used to be. But there's still enough there that, you know, you can see a lot of the same people admiring or liking it.   But I was remembering that first time that we met, you playing pool. And we were, so we were like at a bar and you were like, and you were playing pool, and you had like just had a book out with FSG, I think, or something. I don't know if I even had—   Lucy: FC2. Very different.   Deb: FC2. That's right. FC2. And the FC2 editor was there. And I don't think I even had a book out. I don't remember what year this was. But I don't think I had any kind of book out. All I had was I had nothing, you know. And I was just so in awe of FC2 and the editor there, and you there, and like you could play pool, and I can't play pool at all. And it was just, it was—   Annie: Lucy's so cool. Yeah, she was cool. She was cool. And Shelly Jackson was cool. And it was like all the cool people were there and I got to be there, and it was great.   And then, yeah, and then I think how it continued, I don't know how it continued, we just kind of kept running into each other and just slowly it built up into a really deep friendship. Like at some point you would come through town and stay with me.   (29:25.782) And we moved, we both moved around a lot. So for a while there, so we kind of kept running into each other in different places. We've never lived in the same place.   Lucy: No, never.   Lito: How have you managed that then? Is it always phone or is it texting, phone calls?   Lucy: Well, we'll go through a spate of  texting.   Deb: Yeah, we do both. I think I like to talk on the phone.   Lucy: Yeah, I will talk on the phone for Deb.   Annie: The mark of a true friendship.   Lito: (30:01) Time for a break.   Annie Lito (30:12.43) We're talking with Lucy Corin and Deb Olin Unferth.   Lito: How has literature shaped your friendship then? Despite being cool. What kind of books, movies, art do you love to discuss? You can name names. What do you love talking about?   Deb: Well, I remember the moment with Donald Barthelme.   Lucy: That was what I was gonna say.   Deb: No, you go ahead.   Lucy: Well, why don't?   Deb: Oh, okay, you can tell it.   Lucy: I mean, I'll tell part and then you can tell part. It's not that elaborate, but we were, one of the things that Deb and I do is find a pretty place, rent a space, and go work together. And one time we were doing that in Mendocino and Deb was in the late stages of drafting Barn 8 and really thinking about the ancient chickens and the chickens in an ancient space. And we went for a walk in one of those very ferny forests, and Deb was thinking about the chickens and among the giant ferns. And I don't know how it happened, but Deb said something with a rhythm. And we both said to each other the exact line from Donald Barthelme's "The School" that has that rhythm.   (31:34) Is that how you remember it though? You have to tell me if that's how you remember it.   Deb: That's exactly how I remember it. Yeah. And then we like said a few more lines. Like we knew even...    Lito: You remember the line now?   Lucy: I mean, I don't... You do. If you said it, I could do it. I'm just... I was thinking before this, I'm like, oh God, I should go look up the line because I'm not going to get it right, like under pressure. It was just in the moment. It came so naturally.   Deb: It was one of those lines that goes... (32:03) Da da da-da da, da da da-da-da. There's a little parenthetical, it's not really in parentheses in the story, but it might be a little dash mark. But it has, it's something like, "I told them that they should not be afraid, although I am often afraid." I think it was that one.   Deb: I am often afraid. Yeah. And then it was like, we just both remembered a whole bunch of lines like from the end, because the ending of that story is so amazing. And it's, so the fact that we had both unconsciously memorized it and could just like.   And it was something about just like walking under those giant trees and having this weekend together. And like we're like marching along, like calling out lines from Donald Barthelme. And it just felt really like pure and deep.   Annie: It's I mean, I can't imagine anything sounding more like true love than spontaneously reciting a line in unison from Barthelme. And, you know, you both are talking about how your work really converged at the start and that there are some new divergences and I think of you both as so distinct you know on and off the page. There's like the ferociousness of the pros and an eye towards cultural criticism and I always think of you as writing ahead of your time. So I'm just wondering how would you describe your lit friends work to someone, and is there something even after all this time that surprises you about their writing or their voice?   Lucy: I mean, what surprised me recently about Deb's voice is its elasticity. I came to love the work through the short stories and the micros. And those have such a distinct, wry kind of distance. They sort of float a little separate from the world, and they float a little separate from the page.   (34:10) And they have a kind of, they have a very distinct attitude and tone, even if the pieces are different from each other, like as a unit. And that's just really different than the voice that you get in a book like Barn 8 that moves through a lot of different narrators, but that also has just a softer relationship with the world. Like it's a little more blends with the world as you know, it doesn't stay as distant. And I didn't know that until later.   Vacation is also really stark and sort of like has that distinctiveness from the world. And so watching Deb move into, you know, in some ways like just more realistic, more realistic writing that's still voice-centered and that still is music centered was a recent surprising thing for me.   But I'm also really excited about what I've read in the book that in the new book because I think that new book is sort of the pieces that the bits that I've read from it are they're marking a territory that's sort of right down the middle of the aesthetic poles that Deb's work has already hit I mean the other thing is that you know Deb does all the genres. All of the prose genres. Every book sort of is taking on it is taking on a genre And the next one is doing that too, but with content in a way that others have been taking on new genres and form. And so...    Lito: I love that. And I like that it's related to the music of the pros and sound. I feel like musicians do that a lot, right? There's some musicians that every album is a new genre or totally different sound. And then there's artists who do the same thing over and over again. We love both those things. Sorry, so Deb...   Deb: So I love how complicated Lucy can get with just an image or an idea. I just feel like no one can do it the way that she can do it. And my like her last in her last book, which I love so much, we're just brought through all these different places and each one is sort of (36:31.29) dragging behind it, everything that came before, so that you can just feel all of this like, pressure of like the past and of the situations and like even like a word will resonate. Like you'll bring like, there's like a word on maybe page like 82 that you encountered on like page 20 that like the word meant so much on page 20 that it like really, you can really feel its power when it comes on page 80.   And you feel the constant like shifting of meaning and just like the way that the prose is bringing so much more and like it's like reinterpreting that word again and again and again, just like the deeper that you go, like whatever the word is be it you know house or home or stair or um you know sex, whatever it is, it's like constantly shifting. (37:40.952) And that's just part of like who Lucy is, is this like worrying of a problem or worrying of a word and like carrying it forward. And so yeah, so like in that last book, it just was such a big accomplishment. And I felt like it was like her best work yet.   Lucy: So I will say, try and say something a little bit more specific, then. (38:09) Like I guess in the sort of 10 stories that I teach as often as possible in part because I get bored so easily that I need to teach stories that I can return to that often and still feel like I'm reading something that is new to me is the title story from Wait Till You See Me Dance and that story is a really amazing combination of methodical in its execution, which sounds really dull.   But what it does is sort of toss one ball in the air and then toss another ball in the air and then toss another ball in the air. And then, you know, the balls move, but you know, the balls are brightly colored and they're handled by a master juggler. So it's methodical, but it's joyful and hilarious. And then, and then, and you don't   And the other thing is that Deb's narrators are wicked and like they're wicked in the way that like… They are, they're willing to do and say the things that you secretly wish somebody would do and say. That's the same way that like, you know, in the great existential novels, you love and also worry about the protagonists, right? They're troubled, but their trouble allows them to speak truthfully because they can't help it. Or they can't help it when they're in the space of the short story. It's that like, you know, the stories are able to access—a story like this one and like many of Deb's—are able to access that really special space of narrator, of narration, where you get to speak, you get to speak in a whisper.   Annie: You get to speak in a whisper. That's beautiful, Lucy. You get to speak in a whisper.   Lito: We'll be right back.   Lito: (40:15) Welcome back.   Annie: I'm wondering about what this means, you know, how this crosses over to your own personal lives, right? Because of course, literary friendships, we're thinking about the work all of the time. But we're also, you know, when I think of my literary friendship with Lito, I think of him as like a compatriot and somebody who's really carrying me through the world sometimes. I'm wondering if there was for either of you, a hard time that you went through personally, professionally, you know, whether it's about publishing or just getting words on the page or something, you know, um, you know, family related or whatever, where you, um, you know, what it meant to have a literary friend nearby at that time.   Lucy: I mean that's the heart of it.   Deb: Yeah, I mean for sure.   Lucy: One happened last week and I'm sort of still in the middle of it where you know my literary mentor is aging and struggling and so that's painful for me and who gets that? Deb gets that.   The other one, the other big one for me was that the release of my last novel was really complicated. And it brought up a lot of, it intersected with a lot of the things going on in my family that are challenging and a lot of things that are going on in the literary world that are challenging. There were parts of that release that were really satisfying and joyful, and there were parts of it that were just devastatingly painful for me.   And, you know, Deb really helped me find my way through that. And it was a lot, like it was a lot of emotional contact and a lot of thinking through things really hard and a lot of being like, "wait, why do we do this? But remember, why do we do this?" And Deb was the person who could say, "no, you're a novelist." Like things that like I was doubting, Deb could tell me. And the other thing is that I would come closer to being able to believe those things because she could tell them to me.   Annie: Lucy, can you talk a little more about that? Like what did that? (42:27.126) What did that look like, right? Like you talked about resistance to phone calls, and you're not in the same place.   Lucy: It was phone. Right, it would be phone or it would be Zoom or it would be texting. And then, you know, when we would see each other that would be, we would reflect on those times in person even though that wasn't those immediate moments of support and coaching and, you know, wisdom.   Annie:  And that requires a kind of vulnerability, I think, that is hard to do in this industry, right? And I'm just wondering if that was new for you or if that was special to this friendship, right? Or like what allowed for that kind of openness on your part to be able to connect with Deb in that way?   Lucy: I mean, I think I was just really lucky that we've had, like even though we have really, I think, only noticed that we were close since that Morocco trip. Like that was a little bit of a leap of faith. Like, "oh my gosh, how well do I know this person and we're gonna travel together in like circumstances, and do we really know each other this way?" But the combination of the years that we've known each other in more of a warm acquaintance, occasional, great conversation kind of way towards being somebody that you, that you trust and believe and that you have that stuff built in.   And, you know, that over the years you've seen the choices that they've made in the literary world, the choices they've made in their career, when they, you know, everything from, you know, supporting, you know, being a small, being small press identified and championing certain kinds of books over other kinds of books. And like those, just like watching a person make choices for art that you think are in line with the writer that, watching her make choices in art that are in line with the writer that I wanna be in the world makes it so that when you come to something that is frightening, that's the kind of person you wanna talk to because she's done that thinking.   Deb: Yeah, I mean, I feel like there are like so many things that I could say about that. Like one thing is that the kind of time that I spend with Lucy is really different from the kind of time that I spend with most people. Like most people, (44:51) they come to town and I have dinner with them. Or I go to like AWP or whatever and we go out for dinner. Or maybe I spend like one night at their house like with their partner and kid or something, you know. But Lucy and I, we get together and we spend like four days or something all alone, just the two of us, you know, or a month or whatever. And we don't spend a ton of time with other people. And so there's, but then we also do that, but just like not very much.   And so there is something that just creates, like that's a really good mode for me. It's a, that's like the way that I make really deep friendships that are kind of like forever-people in my life. And I've always been like that. And so, but not a lot of people are willing to sort of do that with me. Like, I have so many acquaintances, I've got like a million, I feel like I could have dinner with someone just about any night, as long as it's only like once every few months or something, you know, but I don't have people who are willing to be this close to me, like spend that kind of time with me one-on-one. And the fact is like, they're not that many people that I really feel like doing that with.   And you know, every time Lucy and I do one of these, I just come away feeling like I thought about some really important things and I talked about some really important things and I saw some beautiful things because Lucy always makes sure that we're somewhere where we can see a lot of beauty. And so that just means so much to me. And it's like, and so for me it creates like a space where, Yeah, I can be honest and vulnerable, and I can also tell her, if I can tell her things that I don't tell other people, or I can be really honest with her if I feel like, if I'm giving her advice about something, I can just be honest about it. And so it's really, really nice.   (47:07) I mean, the other thing is like, we're so similar. Like we've made so many similar life choices. And we've talked about that. Lucy and I have talked about that. Like, you know, we both chose not to have kids. We live pretty, like we're both like kind of loners, even though we have partners. Like I think our partners are more like, they just kind of would, they would prefer that we.   I don't know, I shouldn't probably say anything, but I know that Matt would prefer if I was not quite as much of a loner as I am. Yeah, so I look at Lucy and I see the kind of person that I am, the kind of person I wanna be, so if I have a question, I mean, it happens.   Lucy mentioned a couple of things. I have... You know, she's had some pretty major, major things. I have like little things that happen all the time, and they just like bring me to tears.   Like there was this one moment during the pandemic when I was like driving across the country by myself. I was like in Marfa, and I was trying to get to California and I had like a toilet in the back seat. Remember when we were all doing that kind of thing?   Lucy: It was really amazing.   Deb: It was so crazy.   Lucy: But Deb, not everybody had a toilet in their back seat.   Annie: I know. I need that now.   Deb: It still comes in handy.   Annie: I'm sure.   Deb: (48:43) And I was in, and yeah, Lucy is amazing. She'll talk to me on the phone, but Lucy will do because I love to talk on the phone and I love to Zoom. Lucy does not. So she'll tell me in advance, okay, I will talk to you, but it's gonna be for like 20 minutes or I'm gonna have to get off like pretty soon.   But she Zoomed with me and Marfa and I just didn't realize how upset I was about this one rejection that I'd gotten. And it was a really small rejection, I don't know why it bothered me so much, but I just like started crying and like I was like way out in like so many miles from any so many hours from anyone I knew and you know the world was going to shit, and I'd gotten this like tiny rejection from a magazine like a little like I had it was the page was it was like a piece that was like a page long or something, and Lucy just like knew exactly why I I was so upset, and just was able to talk to me about what that meant to me. And just refocus me to like, "look, you don't have to write those. You don't have to be that writer. You don't have to do that." And it was so freeing to know that I didn't always have to be, I don't even know how to describe it, but it was meant a lot. And things like that happen all the time.   Annie: (50:15.265) That's such a wonderful model of mutual support.   Lucy: We'll be right back.   Annie: Hi Lit Fam. We hope you're enjoying our conversation with Lucy Corin and Deb Olin Unferth, and their love for the word, the world, and each other. If you love what we're doing here at LitFriends, please take a moment now  to follow, subscribe, rate, and review our podcasts on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen to podcasts. Just a few minutes of your time will help us so much to continue to bring you great conversations like this week after week.  Thank you for listening. Back to a conversation with Lucy Corin and Deb Olin Unferth.     Annie: I'm also aware that we're working in an industry that's a zero-sum construct. And, you know, Lucy, you were sort of joking earlier about... Deb winning all of the awards that you later got. But I am curious, like, what about competition between literary friends when we're living in a world with basically shrinking resources?   Lucy: I feel competition, but I don't really feel it with my literary friends. Does that make sense? Like, I'll feel it with my idea of somebody that I don't really know except for their literary profile, right? But when someone like Deb gets something, it makes the world seem right and true, right? And so that's not hard to bear, right? That's just a sign of a good thing in a world that you're afraid isn't so good.   Deb: I guess I feel like if Lucy gets something, then that raises the chances that I'm gonna get something. I'm gonna get the same thing. Because if we're kind of in the same, like we both published with Grey Wolf, we both have the same editor, so we've multiple times that we've been on these trips, we've both been working on books that were supposed to come out with Graywolf with Ethan. (52:16.3) You know, so I feel like if Lucy gets something, then the chances go up.   Like there was just, something just happened recently where Lucy was telling me that she had a little, like a column coming out with The Believer. And I was like, "oh my God, I didn't even know that they were back." I'm like, "man, I really wanna be in The Believer. Like, I can't believe like, you know, they're back and I'm not in them. I gotta be in it. I said that to Lucy on the phone. And then, like the very next day, Rita wrote me and said, "Hey, do you want to write something?"   And so I wrote to Lucy immediately. I was like, did you write to Rita? And she was like, "no, I really didn't." So it's like, we're in the same— Did you, Lucy?   Lucy: No, I didn't! Rita did that all by herself.   Lito: You put it out into the universe, Deb.   Annie: Lucy did it. Hot cut, Lucy did it!   Deb:  So we're like, we're like in the same, I feel a lot of the time like we're kind of in the same lane and so that really helps because like, I do have writer friends who are not in the same lane as me and maybe. Like I'm not as close, but maybe that would be, but if I was as close, maybe that would cause me more confusion. Like I would be like, you know, "geez, how can I get that too? Or it's hopeless, I'll never get that, you know? So I just don't do that thing," or something. So that's really comforting.   Lito: What are your obsessions?   Lucy: Well, I mean-   Lito: How do they show up on the page?   Lucy: I feel like it's so obvious with Deb that like, you know, Deb got obsessed with chickens, and there was a whole bunch of stuff about chickens. First there was a really smart, brilliant Harper's essay where she learned her stuff. And then there was the novel where she, you know, imagined out the chickens (54:19) to touch on everything, right?   Annie: Then there was a chicken a thousand years in advance.   Lucy: Right, and then there's a beautiful chicken art in the house, and there's, you know. And I'm sure that she's gotten way more chicken gifts than she knows what to do with. But then the Sahara, like, you know, she was obsessed with the Sahara and you'll see it in the next book. It's gonna be— It's not gonna be in a literal way, right? But it'll be like, you'll feel the sand, you'll feel that landscape.   So I don't know, like I feel like the obsessions show up in the books. I mean, are there, I mean, this is a question like, Deb, do you think you have obsessions that don't show up in your work? We both have really cute little black dogs.   Deb: (55:07) Oh, not really. I mean, but I do get obsessed. Like I just get so, so like obsessed in an unhealthy way. And then I just have to wait it out. I just have to like wait until I'm not obsessed anymore. And it's like an ongoing just I'm like, OK, here it comes. It's like sleeping over me. Like how many years of my life is going to be are going to be gone as a result of this?   So I'm always like so relieved when I'm not in that space. Like Lucy's obsession comes down to that, with her language, that she's like exploring one idea, like she'll take an idea and she like worries that over the course of a whole book and that she'll just it's like almost like a cubist approach. She'll be like approaching it from so many different standpoints. And that is like, I mean, Lucy is so smart and the way that she does that is just so genius. And so I feel like that's the thing that really keeps drawing me to her obsessions, that keeps bringing me back to that page to read her work again and again. And yeah, and that's how she is in person too.   Lito: Why do you write? What does it do for the world, if anything?   Lucy: (56:37) I know I had a little tiny throat clear, but I think it was because I'm still trying to figure it out because I feel like the answer is different in this world order than it was in earlier world orders. Like when I first answered those questions for myself when I was deciding to make these big life choices and say, "you know, fuck everything except for writing," like I was answering, I was answering that question a different way than I would now, but I don't quite have it to spit out right now, except that I do think it has something to do with a place where the world can be saved. Like, writing now is a place of respite from the rest of the world where you can still have all of these things that I always assumed were widely valued, that feel more and more narrowly valued. And so I write to be able to have that in my life and to be able to connect with the other people who share those kinds of values that are about careful thinking, that are about the glory of the imagination, that are about the sanctity of people having made things.   Annie: Lucy, I need that on my wall. I just need to hear that every day.   Deb: I mean, I feel like if I can think about it in terms of my reading life, that like art changes my mind all the time. Like that's the thing that teaches me. Like I remember when I was a kid, and I lived right near the Art Institute of Chicago, and I remember going in, and they had the Jacob Lawrence immigration panels, migration panels up there that was like a traveling exhibition. And I had none of that information. I did not know about the Great Migration. I just didn't know any of that. So I just remember walking from panel to panel and reading and studying it, (58:47.952) reading it and studying it and just like getting like just getting just it was like a It was such a revelation and I just learned so much and like changed my mind about so many things just in that moment that it was like I'll never forget that.   And I feel like I, I totally agree with Lucy that the reasons that I write now and the reasons that I read now are very different than they were like before, say 2015, or something. But that, that maybe it has its roots in that sort of Jacob Lawrence moment where, you know, just I read these things and it's, I like, I love sinking deep into books that are really changing my mind and like teaching me about the world in ways that I never could have imagined, and I love that so much and I… I don't know if I have that to offer, but I really try hard, you know. Like I tried that with the chicken book. I'm kind of trying that, I hope, in this book that I'm trying to finish and— ha finish!—that I'm trying to get through. And so I think that that's why I think that art is so important.   I don't know if that's truly why I write though. I feel like why I write is that I've always written, and it's like I love it so much. Like I just, sometimes I hate it, sometimes I hate it for like a whole year or whatever, but it's just, it's so much a core of who I am. (01:00:39) And I just, I can't imagine my life any other way. It's just it's just absolutely urgent to me.   Annie: Yeah, urgent. Yeah. I think we all feel that in some way.   Annie:(01:01:04.374) Thank you both for talking to us a little bit about your friendship and getting to know a little bit more about how you started and where you're at now. We're going to move into the lightning round.   Lito: Ooooo Lightning round.   Annie: (01:01:16) Deb, who were you in seventh grade? Who was I in seventh grade? In one sentence, oh my God, the pressure is on. I was unpopular and looked, my hair was exactly the same as it is now. And I wore very similar clothes.   Lucy: (01:01:44) I was a peer counselor, and so I was like the Don who held everybody's secrets.   Lito: Beautiful. Lucy.   Lucy: It saved me. Otherwise, I wouldn't have had a place in that world.   Annie: Makes so much sense.   Lito: Wow. Who or what broke your heart first, deepest?   Lucy: I mean, I would just say my mom.   Deb: I guess, then I have to say my dad.   Annie: Okay, which book is a good lit friend to you?   Deb: Can I say two? The Autobiography of Alice B. Toklas by Gertrude Stein and The Known World by Edward P. Jones.   Annie: Excellent.   Lucy: My go-to is White Noise. Still. Sorry.   Lito: No need to apologize.   Lucy: Yep.   Annie Lito (01:02:27) Who would you want to be lit friends with from any point in history?   Lucy: For me it's Jane Bowles.   Deb: Oh, whoa. Good one. She would be maybe a little difficult. I was gonna say Gertrude Stein, then I was like, actually, she'd be a little difficult.   Lucy: What a jerk!   Deb: I think Zora Neale Hurston would be fun.   Lucy: Well, yeah, of course. For sure.   Annie: We were gonna ask who your lit frenemy from any time might be, but maybe you've already said.   Lucy: Oh, right. I accidentally said my lit frenemy instead of my lit friend.   Annie: Yeah.   Lucy: Mm-hmm.   Deb: (01:03:08) A frenemy from any time?   Annie: Any time. Yeah, it doesn't have to be Jonathan Franzen. I feel like most people will just be like Jonathan Franzen. But it could be any time in history.   Deb: I mean, if you're gonna go that route, then it would probably be, um, like...   Lito: Kierkegaard.   Deb: I don't know, maybe Nietzsche? If you're gonna go that route, if you're gonna go like, like existential philosophers.   Annie: (01:03:34) That's great.   Lito: That could be a podcast too.   Annie: Just like epic frenemy. The most epic frenemy.   Lito: (01:03:35)  Well, that's our show.   Annie & Lito: Thanks for listening.   Annie: We'll be back next week with our guests Melissa Febos and Donika Kelly.    Lito: Find us on all your socials @LitFriendspodcasts   Annie: And tell us about an adventure you've had with your Lit bestie. I'm Annie Liontas.   Lito: And I'm Lito Velazquez.   Annie: Thanks to our production squad. Our show was edited by Justin Hamilton.   Lito: Our logo was designed by Sam Schlenker.   Annie: Lisette Saldaña is our Marketing Director.   Lito: Our theme song was written and produced by Roberto Moresca.   Annie: And special thanks to our show producer Toula Nuñez.   Lito: This was Lit Friends, Episode 2.

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