Podcast appearances and mentions of Jonathan Franzen

Before Becoming You was a methodology, a class, or a book — it was a question. A question that our host Suzy Welch grappled with for decades as she sought to make her way in the world, as a wife, journalist, mother, and professor. Is it ever really possible to write the story of our own lives, or are we fated to edit the script handed to us by our family, culture, and circumstances? In time, Suzy came to realize that her answer was…yes. And it wasn't just her answer, she believed, it was all of ours. In this intimate and thoughtful episode, Suzy sits down with her daughter Sophia to explore two of the books that helped her reach that conclusion, and thus shape the entire Becoming You Methodology. They are The Corrections by Jonathan Franzen and Peace Like a River by Leif Enger. What begins as a conversation about literature quickly turns inward — becoming a candid reflection on generational patterns, personal reinvention, and the question that sits at the center of Suzy's work and the Becoming You journey for all who take it. The Values Bridge digital assessment is available at thevaluesbridge.comPIE360 Feedback tool is available at pie360feedback.comWant more Becoming You? Pre-order the Becoming You book.Learn about the Becoming You Certification Program.You are always growing and evolving and so are we. Sign up for the Becoming You newsletter for fresh new content in one tidy package. You can follow and tag Suzy on:Instagram: @suzywelchLinkedin: @suzywelchTikTok: @suzywelchYouTube: @suzywelch_X: @SuzyWelch

"Libertad" (Freedom, 2010) es una de las novelas más celebradas del escritor estadounidense Jonathan Franzen, una épica familiar contemporánea que explora las contradicciones del sueño americano, las relaciones tóxicas y el concepto mismo de libertad en la sociedad moderna. Con un estilo detallista y mordaz, Franzen retrata a la generación baby boomer y sus fracasos a través de la disfuncional familia Berglund.AVISO LEGAL: Los cuentos, poemas, fragmentos de novelas, ensayos y todo contenido literario que aparece en Crónicas Lunares di Sun podrían estar protegidos por derecho de autor (copyright). Si por alguna razón los propietarios no están conformes con el uso de ellos por favor escribirnos al correo electrónico cronicaslunares.sun@hotmail.com y nos encargaremos de borrarlo inmediatamente. Si te gusta lo que escuchas y deseas apoyarnos puedes dejar tu donación en PayPal, ahí nos encuentras como @IrvingSun  https://paypal.me/IrvingSun?country.x=MX&locale.x=es_XC  Síguenos en:  Telegram: Crónicas Lunares di Sun  ⁠Crónicas Lunares di Sun - YouTube⁠ ⁠https://t.me/joinchat/QFjDxu9fqR8uf3eR⁠  ⁠https://www.facebook.com/cronicalunar/?modal=admin_todo_tour⁠  ⁠Crónicas Lunares (@cronicaslunares.sun) • Fotos y videos de Instagram⁠  ⁠https://twitter.com/isun_g1⁠  ⁠https://www.google.com/podcasts?feed=aHR0cHM6Ly9hbmNob3IuZm0vcy9lODVmOWY0L3BvZGNhc3QvcnNz⁠  ⁠https://open.spotify.com/show/4x2gFdKw3FeoaAORteQomp⁠  https://mx.ivoox.com/es/s_p2_759303_1.html⁠ https://tunein.com/user/gnivrinavi/favorites⁠ 

Figures of Freedom: Representations of Agency in a Time of Crisis takes on the idea and terminology of freedom, examining our understanding of this concept and our relationship to the word itself as well as what it means to society, culture, and politics. Randy Laist and Brian A. Dixon, two scholars who often explore popular culture to better understand the society and politics all around us, have brought their admirable skills to Figures of Freedom, where they have assembled a broad array of contributors exploring freedom in a host of different venues and artifacts. The thrust of the book is to examine representations of freedom in the early 21st century, and the authors look at this evolving nature of freedom in popular culture 21st century texts, where they trace this shifting discourse across time and geography. Broad questions are at the heart of Figures of Freedom: who gets to be free? What is freedom? How does freedom work or play out in different situations and settings? Is freedom itself an archaic idea in the face of rising dictatorships and authoritarian governments, where voices of freedom are being silenced? Freedom is often a concept and term that one understands from an individualistic perspective—my freedom is constrained by governmental actions or limited by societal norms or protected by the Bill of Rights. Liberty, which is often connected to freedom, especially in American discourse, is considered by these authors as more communal, and as part of a delicate balance within the U.S. constitutional system, but the advocacy for individual freedom has eclipsed liberty in the 21st century. Laist and Dixon frame their book by examining some of the facets of freedom, which may be ugly (Elizabeth Anker's conception in her 2022 book), or masculinized (Linda Zerilli's idea in her 2005 book), or colonial (Mimi Thi Nguyen thoughts in her 2012 book), or otherwise characterized by some quality constraining some dimensions of freedom. The contributing authors take up many of these concepts and use them to explore these ideas within a variety of narrative popular culture artifacts from the first part of the 21st century. These include, but are not limited to, Matthew Weiner's television series Mad Men, Don DeLillo's Zero K, Jonathan Franzen's Freedom, Ta-Nehisi Coate's Between the World and Me, Colson Whitehead's Underground Railroad, Pixar's Toy Story films, Sam Esmail's television series Mr. Robot, and many more. Figures of Freedom: Representations of Agency in a Time on Crisis wrestles with what it means to be free and how we, as citizens, consume this idea through many of our cultural artifacts. At times, we may feel free but are, in fact, limited by unseen or unknown political, cultural, or societal constraints. Laist and Dixon compel us to consider our own understanding of freedom, particular in context of the idea of liberty, and how these ideas are shaped and shifted by the world around us, especially in the ways we see freedom represented within film and literary narratives. Lilly J. Goren is a professor of political science at Carroll University in Waukesha, WI. She is co-editor of The Politics of the Marvel Cinematic Universe (University Press of Kansas, 2022), as well as co-editor of the award winning book, Women and the White House: Gender, Popular Culture, and Presidential Politics (University Press of Kentucky, 2012). Email her at lgoren@carrollu.edu or find her at Bluesky: @gorenlj.bsky.social Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices Support our show by becoming a premium member! https://newbooksnetwork.supportingcast.fm/sociology

Figures of Freedom: Representations of Agency in a Time of Crisis takes on the idea and terminology of freedom, examining our understanding of this concept and our relationship to the word itself as well as what it means to society, culture, and politics. Randy Laist and Brian A. Dixon, two scholars who often explore popular culture to better understand the society and politics all around us, have brought their admirable skills to Figures of Freedom, where they have assembled a broad array of contributors exploring freedom in a host of different venues and artifacts. The thrust of the book is to examine representations of freedom in the early 21st century, and the authors look at this evolving nature of freedom in popular culture 21st century texts, where they trace this shifting discourse across time and geography. Broad questions are at the heart of Figures of Freedom: who gets to be free? What is freedom? How does freedom work or play out in different situations and settings? Is freedom itself an archaic idea in the face of rising dictatorships and authoritarian governments, where voices of freedom are being silenced? Freedom is often a concept and term that one understands from an individualistic perspective—my freedom is constrained by governmental actions or limited by societal norms or protected by the Bill of Rights. Liberty, which is often connected to freedom, especially in American discourse, is considered by these authors as more communal, and as part of a delicate balance within the U.S. constitutional system, but the advocacy for individual freedom has eclipsed liberty in the 21st century. Laist and Dixon frame their book by examining some of the facets of freedom, which may be ugly (Elizabeth Anker's conception in her 2022 book), or masculinized (Linda Zerilli's idea in her 2005 book), or colonial (Mimi Thi Nguyen thoughts in her 2012 book), or otherwise characterized by some quality constraining some dimensions of freedom. The contributing authors take up many of these concepts and use them to explore these ideas within a variety of narrative popular culture artifacts from the first part of the 21st century. These include, but are not limited to, Matthew Weiner's television series Mad Men, Don DeLillo's Zero K, Jonathan Franzen's Freedom, Ta-Nehisi Coate's Between the World and Me, Colson Whitehead's Underground Railroad, Pixar's Toy Story films, Sam Esmail's television series Mr. Robot, and many more. Figures of Freedom: Representations of Agency in a Time on Crisis wrestles with what it means to be free and how we, as citizens, consume this idea through many of our cultural artifacts. At times, we may feel free but are, in fact, limited by unseen or unknown political, cultural, or societal constraints. Laist and Dixon compel us to consider our own understanding of freedom, particular in context of the idea of liberty, and how these ideas are shaped and shifted by the world around us, especially in the ways we see freedom represented within film and literary narratives. Lilly J. Goren is a professor of political science at Carroll University in Waukesha, WI. She is co-editor of The Politics of the Marvel Cinematic Universe (University Press of Kansas, 2022), as well as co-editor of the award winning book, Women and the White House: Gender, Popular Culture, and Presidential Politics (University Press of Kentucky, 2012). Email her at lgoren@carrollu.edu or find her at Bluesky: @gorenlj.bsky.social Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices Support our show by becoming a premium member! https://newbooksnetwork.supportingcast.fm/communications

Figures of Freedom: Representations of Agency in a Time of Crisis takes on the idea and terminology of freedom, examining our understanding of this concept and our relationship to the word itself as well as what it means to society, culture, and politics. Randy Laist and Brian A. Dixon, two scholars who often explore popular culture to better understand the society and politics all around us, have brought their admirable skills to Figures of Freedom, where they have assembled a broad array of contributors exploring freedom in a host of different venues and artifacts. The thrust of the book is to examine representations of freedom in the early 21st century, and the authors look at this evolving nature of freedom in popular culture 21st century texts, where they trace this shifting discourse across time and geography. Broad questions are at the heart of Figures of Freedom: who gets to be free? What is freedom? How does freedom work or play out in different situations and settings? Is freedom itself an archaic idea in the face of rising dictatorships and authoritarian governments, where voices of freedom are being silenced? Freedom is often a concept and term that one understands from an individualistic perspective—my freedom is constrained by governmental actions or limited by societal norms or protected by the Bill of Rights. Liberty, which is often connected to freedom, especially in American discourse, is considered by these authors as more communal, and as part of a delicate balance within the U.S. constitutional system, but the advocacy for individual freedom has eclipsed liberty in the 21st century. Laist and Dixon frame their book by examining some of the facets of freedom, which may be ugly (Elizabeth Anker's conception in her 2022 book), or masculinized (Linda Zerilli's idea in her 2005 book), or colonial (Mimi Thi Nguyen thoughts in her 2012 book), or otherwise characterized by some quality constraining some dimensions of freedom. The contributing authors take up many of these concepts and use them to explore these ideas within a variety of narrative popular culture artifacts from the first part of the 21st century. These include, but are not limited to, Matthew Weiner's television series Mad Men, Don DeLillo's Zero K, Jonathan Franzen's Freedom, Ta-Nehisi Coate's Between the World and Me, Colson Whitehead's Underground Railroad, Pixar's Toy Story films, Sam Esmail's television series Mr. Robot, and many more. Figures of Freedom: Representations of Agency in a Time on Crisis wrestles with what it means to be free and how we, as citizens, consume this idea through many of our cultural artifacts. At times, we may feel free but are, in fact, limited by unseen or unknown political, cultural, or societal constraints. Laist and Dixon compel us to consider our own understanding of freedom, particular in context of the idea of liberty, and how these ideas are shaped and shifted by the world around us, especially in the ways we see freedom represented within film and literary narratives. Lilly J. Goren is a professor of political science at Carroll University in Waukesha, WI. She is co-editor of The Politics of the Marvel Cinematic Universe (University Press of Kansas, 2022), as well as co-editor of the award winning book, Women and the White House: Gender, Popular Culture, and Presidential Politics (University Press of Kentucky, 2012). Email her at lgoren@carrollu.edu or find her at Bluesky: @gorenlj.bsky.social Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Figures of Freedom: Representations of Agency in a Time of Crisis takes on the idea and terminology of freedom, examining our understanding of this concept and our relationship to the word itself as well as what it means to society, culture, and politics. Randy Laist and Brian A. Dixon, two scholars who often explore popular culture to better understand the society and politics all around us, have brought their admirable skills to Figures of Freedom, where they have assembled a broad array of contributors exploring freedom in a host of different venues and artifacts. The thrust of the book is to examine representations of freedom in the early 21st century, and the authors look at this evolving nature of freedom in popular culture 21st century texts, where they trace this shifting discourse across time and geography. Broad questions are at the heart of Figures of Freedom: who gets to be free? What is freedom? How does freedom work or play out in different situations and settings? Is freedom itself an archaic idea in the face of rising dictatorships and authoritarian governments, where voices of freedom are being silenced? Freedom is often a concept and term that one understands from an individualistic perspective—my freedom is constrained by governmental actions or limited by societal norms or protected by the Bill of Rights. Liberty, which is often connected to freedom, especially in American discourse, is considered by these authors as more communal, and as part of a delicate balance within the U.S. constitutional system, but the advocacy for individual freedom has eclipsed liberty in the 21st century. Laist and Dixon frame their book by examining some of the facets of freedom, which may be ugly (Elizabeth Anker's conception in her 2022 book), or masculinized (Linda Zerilli's idea in her 2005 book), or colonial (Mimi Thi Nguyen thoughts in her 2012 book), or otherwise characterized by some quality constraining some dimensions of freedom. The contributing authors take up many of these concepts and use them to explore these ideas within a variety of narrative popular culture artifacts from the first part of the 21st century. These include, but are not limited to, Matthew Weiner's television series Mad Men, Don DeLillo's Zero K, Jonathan Franzen's Freedom, Ta-Nehisi Coate's Between the World and Me, Colson Whitehead's Underground Railroad, Pixar's Toy Story films, Sam Esmail's television series Mr. Robot, and many more. Figures of Freedom: Representations of Agency in a Time on Crisis wrestles with what it means to be free and how we, as citizens, consume this idea through many of our cultural artifacts. At times, we may feel free but are, in fact, limited by unseen or unknown political, cultural, or societal constraints. Laist and Dixon compel us to consider our own understanding of freedom, particular in context of the idea of liberty, and how these ideas are shaped and shifted by the world around us, especially in the ways we see freedom represented within film and literary narratives. Lilly J. Goren is a professor of political science at Carroll University in Waukesha, WI. She is co-editor of The Politics of the Marvel Cinematic Universe (University Press of Kansas, 2022), as well as co-editor of the award winning book, Women and the White House: Gender, Popular Culture, and Presidential Politics (University Press of Kentucky, 2012). Email her at lgoren@carrollu.edu or find her at Bluesky: @gorenlj.bsky.social Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices Support our show by becoming a premium member! https://newbooksnetwork.supportingcast.fm/new-books-network

Figures of Freedom: Representations of Agency in a Time of Crisis takes on the idea and terminology of freedom, examining our understanding of this concept and our relationship to the word itself as well as what it means to society, culture, and politics. Randy Laist and Brian A. Dixon, two scholars who often explore popular culture to better understand the society and politics all around us, have brought their admirable skills to Figures of Freedom, where they have assembled a broad array of contributors exploring freedom in a host of different venues and artifacts. The thrust of the book is to examine representations of freedom in the early 21st century, and the authors look at this evolving nature of freedom in popular culture 21st century texts, where they trace this shifting discourse across time and geography. Broad questions are at the heart of Figures of Freedom: who gets to be free? What is freedom? How does freedom work or play out in different situations and settings? Is freedom itself an archaic idea in the face of rising dictatorships and authoritarian governments, where voices of freedom are being silenced? Freedom is often a concept and term that one understands from an individualistic perspective—my freedom is constrained by governmental actions or limited by societal norms or protected by the Bill of Rights. Liberty, which is often connected to freedom, especially in American discourse, is considered by these authors as more communal, and as part of a delicate balance within the U.S. constitutional system, but the advocacy for individual freedom has eclipsed liberty in the 21st century. Laist and Dixon frame their book by examining some of the facets of freedom, which may be ugly (Elizabeth Anker's conception in her 2022 book), or masculinized (Linda Zerilli's idea in her 2005 book), or colonial (Mimi Thi Nguyen thoughts in her 2012 book), or otherwise characterized by some quality constraining some dimensions of freedom. The contributing authors take up many of these concepts and use them to explore these ideas within a variety of narrative popular culture artifacts from the first part of the 21st century. These include, but are not limited to, Matthew Weiner's television series Mad Men, Don DeLillo's Zero K, Jonathan Franzen's Freedom, Ta-Nehisi Coate's Between the World and Me, Colson Whitehead's Underground Railroad, Pixar's Toy Story films, Sam Esmail's television series Mr. Robot, and many more. Figures of Freedom: Representations of Agency in a Time on Crisis wrestles with what it means to be free and how we, as citizens, consume this idea through many of our cultural artifacts. At times, we may feel free but are, in fact, limited by unseen or unknown political, cultural, or societal constraints. Laist and Dixon compel us to consider our own understanding of freedom, particular in context of the idea of liberty, and how these ideas are shaped and shifted by the world around us, especially in the ways we see freedom represented within film and literary narratives. Lilly J. Goren is a professor of political science at Carroll University in Waukesha, WI. She is co-editor of The Politics of the Marvel Cinematic Universe (University Press of Kansas, 2022), as well as co-editor of the award winning book, Women and the White House: Gender, Popular Culture, and Presidential Politics (University Press of Kentucky, 2012). Email her at lgoren@carrollu.edu or find her at Bluesky: @gorenlj.bsky.social Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices Support our show by becoming a premium member! https://newbooksnetwork.supportingcast.fm/new-books-network

Figures of Freedom: Representations of Agency in a Time of Crisis takes on the idea and terminology of freedom, examining our understanding of this concept and our relationship to the word itself as well as what it means to society, culture, and politics. Randy Laist and Brian A. Dixon, two scholars who often explore popular culture to better understand the society and politics all around us, have brought their admirable skills to Figures of Freedom, where they have assembled a broad array of contributors exploring freedom in a host of different venues and artifacts. The thrust of the book is to examine representations of freedom in the early 21st century, and the authors look at this evolving nature of freedom in popular culture 21st century texts, where they trace this shifting discourse across time and geography. Broad questions are at the heart of Figures of Freedom: who gets to be free? What is freedom? How does freedom work or play out in different situations and settings? Is freedom itself an archaic idea in the face of rising dictatorships and authoritarian governments, where voices of freedom are being silenced? Freedom is often a concept and term that one understands from an individualistic perspective—my freedom is constrained by governmental actions or limited by societal norms or protected by the Bill of Rights. Liberty, which is often connected to freedom, especially in American discourse, is considered by these authors as more communal, and as part of a delicate balance within the U.S. constitutional system, but the advocacy for individual freedom has eclipsed liberty in the 21st century. Laist and Dixon frame their book by examining some of the facets of freedom, which may be ugly (Elizabeth Anker's conception in her 2022 book), or masculinized (Linda Zerilli's idea in her 2005 book), or colonial (Mimi Thi Nguyen thoughts in her 2012 book), or otherwise characterized by some quality constraining some dimensions of freedom. The contributing authors take up many of these concepts and use them to explore these ideas within a variety of narrative popular culture artifacts from the first part of the 21st century. These include, but are not limited to, Matthew Weiner's television series Mad Men, Don DeLillo's Zero K, Jonathan Franzen's Freedom, Ta-Nehisi Coate's Between the World and Me, Colson Whitehead's Underground Railroad, Pixar's Toy Story films, Sam Esmail's television series Mr. Robot, and many more. Figures of Freedom: Representations of Agency in a Time on Crisis wrestles with what it means to be free and how we, as citizens, consume this idea through many of our cultural artifacts. At times, we may feel free but are, in fact, limited by unseen or unknown political, cultural, or societal constraints. Laist and Dixon compel us to consider our own understanding of freedom, particular in context of the idea of liberty, and how these ideas are shaped and shifted by the world around us, especially in the ways we see freedom represented within film and literary narratives. Lilly J. Goren is a professor of political science at Carroll University in Waukesha, WI. She is co-editor of The Politics of the Marvel Cinematic Universe (University Press of Kansas, 2022), as well as co-editor of the award winning book, Women and the White House: Gender, Popular Culture, and Presidential Politics (University Press of Kentucky, 2012). Email her at lgoren@carrollu.edu or find her at Bluesky: @gorenlj.bsky.social Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices Support our show by becoming a premium member! https://newbooksnetwork.supportingcast.fm/political-science

Figures of Freedom: Representations of Agency in a Time of Crisis takes on the idea and terminology of freedom, examining our understanding of this concept and our relationship to the word itself as well as what it means to society, culture, and politics. Randy Laist and Brian A. Dixon, two scholars who often explore popular culture to better understand the society and politics all around us, have brought their admirable skills to Figures of Freedom, where they have assembled a broad array of contributors exploring freedom in a host of different venues and artifacts. The thrust of the book is to examine representations of freedom in the early 21st century, and the authors look at this evolving nature of freedom in popular culture 21st century texts, where they trace this shifting discourse across time and geography. Broad questions are at the heart of Figures of Freedom: who gets to be free? What is freedom? How does freedom work or play out in different situations and settings? Is freedom itself an archaic idea in the face of rising dictatorships and authoritarian governments, where voices of freedom are being silenced? Freedom is often a concept and term that one understands from an individualistic perspective—my freedom is constrained by governmental actions or limited by societal norms or protected by the Bill of Rights. Liberty, which is often connected to freedom, especially in American discourse, is considered by these authors as more communal, and as part of a delicate balance within the U.S. constitutional system, but the advocacy for individual freedom has eclipsed liberty in the 21st century. Laist and Dixon frame their book by examining some of the facets of freedom, which may be ugly (Elizabeth Anker's conception in her 2022 book), or masculinized (Linda Zerilli's idea in her 2005 book), or colonial (Mimi Thi Nguyen thoughts in her 2012 book), or otherwise characterized by some quality constraining some dimensions of freedom. The contributing authors take up many of these concepts and use them to explore these ideas within a variety of narrative popular culture artifacts from the first part of the 21st century. These include, but are not limited to, Matthew Weiner's television series Mad Men, Don DeLillo's Zero K, Jonathan Franzen's Freedom, Ta-Nehisi Coate's Between the World and Me, Colson Whitehead's Underground Railroad, Pixar's Toy Story films, Sam Esmail's television series Mr. Robot, and many more. Figures of Freedom: Representations of Agency in a Time on Crisis wrestles with what it means to be free and how we, as citizens, consume this idea through many of our cultural artifacts. At times, we may feel free but are, in fact, limited by unseen or unknown political, cultural, or societal constraints. Laist and Dixon compel us to consider our own understanding of freedom, particular in context of the idea of liberty, and how these ideas are shaped and shifted by the world around us, especially in the ways we see freedom represented within film and literary narratives. Lilly J. Goren is a professor of political science at Carroll University in Waukesha, WI. She is co-editor of The Politics of the Marvel Cinematic Universe (University Press of Kansas, 2022), as well as co-editor of the award winning book, Women and the White House: Gender, Popular Culture, and Presidential Politics (University Press of Kentucky, 2012). Email her at lgoren@carrollu.edu or find her at Bluesky: @gorenlj.bsky.social Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices Support our show by becoming a premium member! https://newbooksnetwork.supportingcast.fm/popular-culture

For 40 years, the Whiting Awards have been discovering up-and-coming literary talent, and awarding them with substantial grants. Past recipients include Michael Cunningham, Jonathan Franzen, Hernan Diaz, Ocean Vuong, Michael R. Jackson, Mary Karr, and more. This week, the 40th Annual Whiting Awards handed out grants to a new class of writers. Courtney Hodell, director of literary programs with the Whiting Foundation, discusses her role overseeing the awards, and how the Foundation has become so adept at identifying emerging literary talent.

Las correcciones es una epopeya íntima sobre el fracaso de todas las utopías: las familiares, las económicas y las farmacológicas. Franzen disecciona el mito de la corrección permanente (de conductas, mercados, estados de ánimo) revelando que, como dice Enid: "La única cura para la vida es más vida." La genialidad reside en mostrar cómo las familias son el último lugar donde buscamos (y nunca encontramos) la redención.AVISO LEGAL: Los cuentos, poemas, fragmentos de novelas, ensayos y todo contenido literario que aparece en Crónicas Lunares di Sun podrían estar protegidos por derecho de autor (copyright). Si por alguna razón los propietarios no están conformes con el uso de ellos por favor escribirnos al correo electrónico cronicaslunares.sun@hotmail.com y nos encargaremos de borrarlo inmediatamente. Si te gusta lo que escuchas y deseas apoyarnos puedes dejar tu donación en PayPal, ahí nos encuentras como @IrvingSun  https://paypal.me/IrvingSun?country.x=MX&locale.x=es_XC  Síguenos en:  Telegram: Crónicas Lunares di Sun  ⁠Crónicas Lunares di Sun - YouTube⁠ ⁠https://t.me/joinchat/QFjDxu9fqR8uf3eR⁠  ⁠https://www.facebook.com/cronicalunar/?modal=admin_todo_tour⁠  ⁠Crónicas Lunares (@cronicaslunares.sun) • Fotos y videos de Instagram⁠  ⁠https://twitter.com/isun_g1⁠  ⁠https://www.google.com/podcasts?feed=aHR0cHM6Ly9hbmNob3IuZm0vcy9lODVmOWY0L3BvZGNhc3QvcnNz⁠  ⁠https://open.spotify.com/show/4x2gFdKw3FeoaAORteQomp⁠  https://mx.ivoox.com/es/s_p2_759303_1.html⁠ https://tunein.com/user/gnivrinavi/favorites⁠ 

Hunter sits down (virtually!) with Lorrie Tom, and they discuss her background in literature and writing, what she's doing this year for Lent, and things they both like (The Smiths) and things they have differing opinions about (The Corrections by Jonathan Franzen). Lorrie's post on her Substack is mentioned frequently, so we recommend reading it before you listen. You can find it here!

The managing editor of Te Herenga Waka University Press joins Emile Donovan to brave the challenge of rereading a significant book from her past: The Corrections by Jonathan Franzen.

Christine Benz is the Director of Personal Finance and Retirement Planning at Morningstar, where she has spent over three decades helping investors navigate the complexities of financial planning. She is also the author of "How to Retire: 20 Lessons for a Happy, Successful, and Wealthy Retirement" and serves as the president of the John C. Bogle Center for Financial Literacy. Before focusing on retirement planning, Christine worked as a fund analyst, bringing a unique perspective that combines deep investment knowledge with practical financial wisdom. Christine joins the show to discuss why retirement isn't just about hitting your "magic number," how to overcome the psychological barriers to retirement spending, why keeping your inner circle vibrant is crucial for long-term happiness, the surprising power of lifetime giving, and MUCH more. I hope you enjoy this conversation as much as I did. For the full transcript, episode takeaways, and bucketloads of other goodies designed to make you go, "Hmm, that's interesting!", check out our Substack. Important Links: Website Twitter LinkedIn Show Notes: Retirement Focus: Finances or Lifestyle? Bring Your Kids In The Loop Embrace the Challenges of Social Health A Day in The Life of a Retiree Defaulting People Into Saving Genesis of the FIRE Movement Horsemen of The Investment Apocalypse The Delicate Balance of Investment Buckets Dodging A Single Point of Failure How to Sniff Out Fishy Financial Advice The Saver vs the Investor Personality Type Keeping Up With Mr. Market Annuities: The Low-Risk Underdog Christine as World Emperor Books / Authors Mentioned: How to Retire: 20 Lessons for a Happy, Successful, and Wealthy Retirement; by Christine Benz The works of Jonathan Franzen

Happy Solstice!   As we do every December solstice it's time for our 7th Annual "Best Of" episode of 3 Books.   3 Books is our 22-year-long conversation to uncover and discuss the 1000 most formative books in the world.   This year we sat with ​academics at Oxford​ to ​bus drivers in St. Louis​, with ​Jonathan Franzen​ in Santa Cruz to ​Oliver Burkeman​ in the North York Moors, with the ​world's largest bookseller​ and ​Amazon union organizers​, with ​Oscar nominees​ to a ​guy who dresses up all day as as a duck​.   This year I've changed tack and made the "Best Of" highly concentrated—under 50 minutes long!—with little snippets from our diverse guests to provide reflection, provoke your thinking, and help to set intentions for 2025 and beyond.   Thank you for being a 3 Booker and spending time with this incredible community of book lovers spread across the world.   Let's stop to reflect and then keep enjoying the ride....

Who else in literature today could be more interesting to interview than Brandon Taylor, the author of Real Life, Filthy Animals, and The Late Americans, as well as the author of popular reviews and the sweater weather Substack? We talked about so much, including: Chopin and who plays him best; why there isn't more tennis in fiction; writing fiction on a lab bench; being a scientific critic; what he has learned working as a publisher; negative reviews; boring novels; Jane Austen. You'll also get Brandon's quick takes on Iris Murdoch, Jonathan Franzen, Lionel Trilling, György Lukács, and a few others; the modern critics he likes reading; and the dead critics he likes reading.Brandon also talked about how his new novel is going to be different from his previous novels. He told me:I no longer really want to be starting my books, quote unquote, in media res. I want my books to feel like books. I don't want my books to feel like movies. And I don't want them to feel like treatments for film. And so I want to sort of bring back all of what a novel can do in terms of its structure and in terms of its form and stuff like that. And so it means starting books, you know, with this sort of Dickensian voice of God speaking from on high, sort of summing up an era. And I think also sort of allowing the narrators in my work to dare to sum up, allowing characters in my work to have ideologies and to argue about those ideologies. I feel like that is a thing that was sort of denuded from the American novel for a lot of millennials and just sort of like trying to put back some of that old fashioned machinery that was like stripped out of the novel. And seeing what of it can still function, seeing, trying to figure out if there's any juice left in these modes of representation.I have enjoyed Brandon's fiction (several people I recommend him to have loved Real Life) and I think he's one of the best critics working today. I was delighted to interview him.Oh, and he's a Dickens fan!Transcript (AI produced, lightly formatted by me)Henry: Today I am talking to Brandon Taylor, the author of Real Life, Filthy Animals, and The Late Americans. Brandon is also a notable book reviewer and of course he writes a sub stack called Sweater Weather. Brandon, welcome.Brandon: Yeah, thanks for having me.Henry: What did you think of the newly discovered Chopin waltz?Brandon: Um, I thought, I mean, I remember very vividly waking up that day and there being a new waltz, but it was played by Lang Lang, which I did not. I don't know that, like, he's my go-to Chopin interpreter. But I don't know, I was, I was excited by it. Um, I don't know, it was in a world sort of dominated by this ethos of like nothing new under the sun. It felt wonderfully novel. I don't know that it's like one of Chopin's like major, I don't know that it's like major. Um, it's sort of definitively like middle of the road, middle tier Chopin, I think. But I enjoyed it. I played it like 20 times in a row.Henry: I like those moments because I like, I like it when people get surprised into realizing that like, it's not fixed what we know about the world and you can even actually get new Chopin, right?Brandon: I mean, it felt a little bit like when Beyonce did her first big surprise drop. It was like new Chopin just dropped. Oh my God. All my sort of classical music nerd group texts were buzzing. It felt like a real moment, actually.Henry: And I think it gives people a sense of what art was like in the past. You can go, oh my God, new Chopin. Like, yes, those feelings are not just about modern culture, right? That used to happen with like, oh my God, a new Jane Austen book is here.Brandon: Oh, I know. Well, I mean, I was like reading a lot of Emile Zola up until I guess late last year. And at some point I discovered that he was like an avid amateur photographer. And in like the French Ministry of Culture is like digitized a lot of his glass plate negatives. And one of them is like a picture that Zola has taken of Manet's portrait of him. And it's just like on a floor somewhere. Like he's like sort of taken this like very rickety early camera machinery to this place where this portrait is and like taken a picture of it. It's like, wow. Like you can imagine that like Manet's like, here's this painting I did of you. And Zola's like, ah, yes, I'm going to take a picture to commemorate it. And so I sort of love that.Henry: What other of his photos do you like?Brandon: Well, there's one of him on a bike riding toward the camera. That's really delightful to me because it like that impulse is so recognizable to me. There are all these photos that he took of his mistress that were also just like, you can like, there are also photographs of his children and of his family. And again, those feel so like recognizable to me. He's not even like a very good photographer. It's just that he was taking pictures of his like daily life, except for his kind of stunt photos where he's riding the bike. And it's like, ah, yes, Zola, he would have been great with an iPhone camera.Henry: Which pianists do you like for Chopin?Brandon: Which pianists do I love for Chopin? I like Pollini a lot. Pollini is amazing. Pollini the elder, not Pollini the younger. The younger is not my favorite. And he died recently, Maurizio Pollini. He died very recently. Maybe he's my favorite. I love, I love Horowitz. Horowitz is wonderful at Chopin. But it's obviously it's like not his, you know, you don't sort of go to Horowitz for Chopin, I guess. But I love his Chopin. And sometimes Trifonov. Trifonov has a couple Chopin recordings that I really, really like. I tend not to love Trifonov as much.Henry: Really?Brandon: I know it's controversial. It's very controversial. I know. Tell me why. I, I don't know. He's just a bit of a banger to me. Like, like he's sort of, I don't know, his playing is so flashy. And he feels a bit like a, like a, like a keyboard basher to me sometimes.Henry: But like, do you like his Bach?Brandon: You know, I haven't done a deep dive. Maybe I should do a sort of more rigorous engagement with Trifonov. But yeah, I don't, he's just not, he doesn't make my heart sing. I think he's very good at Bach.Henry: What about a Martha Argerich?Brandon: Oh, I mean, she's incredible. She's incredible. I bought that sort of big orange box out of like all of her, her sort of like masterwork recordings. And she's incredible. She has such feel for Chopin. But she doesn't, I think sometimes people can make Chopin feel a little like, like treacly, like, like a little too sweet. And she has this perfect understanding of his like rhythm and his like inner nuances and like the crispness in his compositions. Like she really pulls all of that out. And I love her. She has such, obviously great dexterity, but like a real sort of exquisite sensitivity to the rhythmic structures of Chopin.Henry: You listen on CD?Brandon: No, I listen on vinyl and I listen on streaming, but mostly vinyl. Mostly vinyl? Yeah, mostly vinyl. I know it's very annoying. No, no, no, no, no.Henry: Which, what are the good speakers?Brandon: I forget where I bought these speakers from, but I sort of did some Googling during the pandemic of like best speakers to use. I have a U-Turn Audio, U-Turn Orbital record player. And so I was just looking for good speakers that were compatible and like wouldn't take up a ton of space in my apartment because I was moving to New York and had a very tiny, tiny apartment. So they're just from sort of standard, I forget the brand, but they've served me well these past few years.Henry: And do you like Ólafsson? He's done some Chopin.Brandon: Who?Henry: Víkingur Ólafsson. He did the Goldbergs this year, but he's done some Chopin before. I think he's quite good.Brandon: Oh, that Icelandic guy?Henry: Yeah, yeah, yeah. With the glasses? That's right. And the very neat hair.Brandon: Yes. Oh, he's so chic. He's so chic. I don't know his Chopin. I know his, there's another series that he did somewhat recently that I'm more familiar with. But he is really good. He has good Beethoven, Víkingur.Henry: Yeah.Brandon: And normally I don't love Beethoven, but like—Henry: Really? Why? Why? What's wrong with Beethoven? All these controversial opinions about music.Brandon: I'm not trying to have controversial opinions. I think I'm, well, I'm such a, I'm such, I mean, I'm just like a dumb person. And so like, I don't, I don't have a really, I feel like I don't have the robust understanding to like fully appreciate Beethoven and all of his sort of like majesty. And so maybe I've just not heard good Beethoven and I need to sort of go back and sort of get a real understanding of it. But I just tend not to like it. It feels like, I don't know, like grandma's living room music to me sometimes.Henry: What other composers do you enjoy?Brandon: Oh, of course.Henry: Or other music generally, right?Brandon: Rachmaninoff is so amazing to me. There was, of course, Bach. Brahms. Oh, I love Brahms, but like specifically the intermezzi. I love the intermezzi. I recently fell in love with, oh, his name is escaping me now, but he, I went to a concert and they sort of did a Brahms intermezzi. And they also played this, I think he was an Austrian composer. And his music was like, it wasn't experimental, but it was like quite, I had a lot of dissonance in it. And I found it like really interesting and like really moving actually. And so I did a sort of listening to that constantly. Oh, I forget his name. But Brahms, Chopin, Rachmaninoff, love Rachmaninoff. I have a friend who says that Rachmaninoff writes Negro spirituals. And I love that theory that Rachmaninoff's music is like the music of the slaves. It just, I don't know. I really, that really resonates with me spiritually. Which pieces, which Rachmaninoff symphonies, concertos? Yeah, the concertos. But like specifically, like I have a friend who said that Rach II sounded to her like the sort of spiritual cry of like the slaves. And we were at like a hangout with like mostly Black people. And she like stopped playing like Juvenile, like the rapper. And she put on Rach II. And we just like sat there and listened. And it did feel like something powerful had entered the room. Yeah, but he's my guy. I secretly really, really love him. I like Liszt, but like it really depends on the day and the time for him. He makes good folk music, Liszt. I love his folky, his folk era.Henry: What is it that you enjoy about tennis?Brandon: What do I enjoy about tennis? I love the, I love not thinking. I love being able to hit the ball for hours on end and like not think. And like, it's the one part of my life. It's the one time in my life where my experience is like totally unstructured. And so like this morning, I went to a 7am drill and play class where you do drills for an hour. Then you play doubles for an hour. And during that first hour of drills, I was just like hitting the ball. I was at the mercy of the guy feeding us the ball. And I didn't have a single thought about books or literature or like the status of my soul or like the nature of American democracy. It was just like, did I hit that ball? Well, did I hit it kind of off center? Were there tingles in my wrist? Yes or no. Like it was just very, very grounding in the moment. And I think that is what I love about it. Do you like to watch tennis? Oh, yeah, constantly. Sometimes when I'm in a work meeting, the Zoom is here and the tennis is like playing in the background. Love tennis, love to watch, love to play, love to think about, to ponder. Who are the best players for you? Oh, well, the best players, my favorite players are Roger Federer, Serena Williams, Stanislas Wawrinka, love Wawrinka. And I was a really big Davydenko head back in the day. Nikolai Davydenko was this Russian player who had, he was like a metronome. He just like would not miss. Yeah, those are my favorites. Right now, the guy I'm sort of rooting for who's still active is Kasper Rud, who's this Norwegian guy. And I love him because he just looks like some guy. Like he just looks like he should be in a seminary somewhere. I love it. I love, I love his normalness. He just looks like an NPC. And I'm drawn to that in a tennis player.Henry: It's hard to think of tennis in novels. Why is that?Brandon: Well, I think a lot of people don't, well, I think part of it is a lot of novelists. Part of it is a lot of novelists don't play sports. I think that they, at least Americans, I can't speak for other parts of the world, but in America, a lot of novelists are not doing sports. So that's one. And I think two, like, you know, like with anything, I think that tennis has not been subjected to the same schemes of narrativization that like other things are. And so like it's, a lot of novelists just like don't see a sort of readily dramatizable thing in tennis. Even though if you like watch tennis and like listen to tennis commentary, they are always erecting narratives. They're like, oh yeah, she's been on a 19 match losing streak. Is this where she turns it around? And to me, tennis is like a very literary sport because tennis is one of those sports where it's all about the matchup. It's like your forehand to my backhand, like no matter how well I play against everyone else, like it's you and me locked in the struggle. And like that to me feels incredibly literary. And it is so tied to your individual psychology as well. Like, I don't know, I endlessly am fascinated by it. And indeed, I got an idea for a tennis novel the other day that I'm hopefully going to write in three to five years. We'll see.Henry: Very good. How did working in a lab influence your writing?Brandon: Well, somewhat directly and materially in the case of my first book, because I wrote it while I was working in the lab and it gave me weirdly like time and structure to do that work where I would be pipetting. And then while I was waiting for an assay or a experiment to run or finish, I would have 30 minutes to sit down and write.Henry: So you were writing like at the lab bench?Brandon: Oh, yeah, absolutely. One thousand percent. I would like put on Philip Glass's score for the hours and then just like type while my while the centrifuge was running or whatever. And and so like there's that impression sort of baked into the first couple books. And then I think more, I guess, like spiritually or broadly, it influenced my work because it taught me how to think and how to organize time and how to organize thoughts and how to sort of pursue long term, open ended projects whose results may or may not, you know, fail because of something that you did or maybe you didn't do. And that's just the nature of things. Who knows? But yeah, I think also just like discipline, the discipline to sort of clock in every day. And to sort of go to the coalface and do the work. And that's not a thing that is, you know. That you just get by working in a lab, but it's certainly something that I acquired working in a lab.Henry: Do you think it's affected your interest in criticism? Because there's there are certain types of critic who seem to come from a scientific background like Helen Vendler. And there's something something about the sort of the precision and, you know, that certain critics will refuse to use critical waffle, like the human condition. And they won't make these big, vague gestures to like how this can change the way we view society. They're like, give me real details. Give me real like empirical criticism. Do you think this is — are you one of these people?Brandon: Yeah, yeah, I think I'm, you know, I'm all about what's on the page. I'm all about the I'm not gonna go rooting in your biography for not gonna go. I'm not I'm not doing that. It's like what you brought to me on the page is what you've brought to me. And that is what I will be sort of coming over. I mean, I think so. I mean, very often when critics write about my work, or when people respond to my work, they sort of describe it as being put under a microscope. And I do think like, that is how I approach literature. It's how I approach life. If there's ever a problem or a question put to me, I just sort of dissect it and try to get down to its core bits and its core parts. And and so yeah, I mean, if that is a scientific way of doing things, that's certainly how I but also I don't know any other way to think like that's sort of that's sort of how I was trained to think about stuff. You've been to London. I have. What did you think of it? The first time I didn't love it. The second and third times I had a good time, but I felt like London didn't love me back. London is the only place on earth I've ever been where people have had a hard time understanding me like I like it's the only place where I've like attempted to order food or a drink or something in a store or a cafe or a restaurant. And the waiters like turned to my like British hosts and asked them to translate. And that is an entirely foreign experience for me. And so London and I have like a very contentious relationship, I would say.Henry: Now, you've just published four classic novels.Brandon: Yes.Henry: George Gissing, Edith Wharton, Victor Hugo and Sarah Orne Jewett. Why did you choose those four writers, those four titles?Brandon: Oh, well, once we decided that we were going to do a classics imprint, you know, then it's like, well, what are we going to do? And I'm a big Edith Wharton fan. And there are all of these Edith Wharton novels that Americans don't really know about. They know Edith Wharton for The Age of Innocence. And if they are an English major, they maybe know her for The House of Mirth. Or like maybe they know her for The Custom of the Country if they're like really into reading. But then they sort of think of her as a novelist of the 19th century. And she's writing all of these books set in the 1920s and about the 1920s. And so it felt important to show people like, oh, this is a writer who died a lot later than you think that she did. And whose creative output was, you know, pretty, who was like a contemporary of F. Scott Fitzgerald in a lot of ways. Like, these books are being published around the same time as The Great Gatsby. And to sort of, you know, bring attention to a part of her over that, like, people don't know about. And like, that's really exciting to me. And Sarah Orne Jewett, I mean, I just really love The Country of the Pointed Furs. I love that book. And I found it in like in a 10 cents bin at a flea market one time. And it's a book that people have tried to bring back. And there have been editions of it. But it just felt like if we could get two people who are really cool to talk about why they love that book, we could sort of have like a real moment. And Sarah Orne Jewett was like a pretty big American writer. Like she was a pretty significant writer. And she was like really plugged in and she's not really read or thought about now. And so that felt like a cool opportunity as well to sort of create a very handsome edition of this book and to sort of talk about a bit why she matters. And the guessing of it all is we were going to do New Grub Street. And then my co-editor thought, well, The Odd Women, I think, is perhaps more relevant to our current moment than New Grub Street necessarily. And it would sort of differentiate us from the people, from the presses that are doing reissues of New Grub Street, because there's just been a new edition of that book. And nobody in America really knows The Odd Women. And it's a really wonderful novel. It's both funny and also like really biting in its satire and commentary. So we thought, oh, it'll be fun to bring this writer to Americans who they've never heard of in a way that will speak to them in a lot of ways. And the Victor Hugo, I mean, you know, there are Hugos that people know all about. And then there are Hugos that no one knows about. And Toilers of the Sea was a passion project for my co-editor. She'd read it in Guernsey. That's where she first discovered that book. And it really meant a lot to her. And I read it and really loved it. I mean, it was like Hugo at his most Hugo. Like, it's a very, it's a very, like, it's a very abundant book. And it's so wild and strange and changeful. And so I was like, oh, that seems cool. Let's do it. Let's put out Toilers of the Sea. So that's a bit of why we picked each one.Henry: And what have you learned from being on the other side of things now that you're the publisher?Brandon: So much. I've learned so much. And indeed, I just, I was just asked by my editor to do the author questionnaire for the novel that I have coming out next. And I thought, yes, I will do this. And I will do it immediately. Because now I know, I know how important these are. And I know how early and how far in advance these things need to be locked in to make everyone's life easier. I think I've learned a bit about the sometimes panicked scramble that happens to get a book published. I've learned about how hard it is to wrangle blurbs. And so I think I'm a little more forgiving of my publishers. But they've always been really great to me. But now I'm like, oh, my gosh, what can I do for you? How can I help you make this publication more of a success?Henry: Do you think that among literary people generally, there's a lack of appreciation of what business really involves in some of the senses you're talking about? I feel like I see a lot of either indifferent or hostile attitudes towards business or commerce or capitalism, late stage capitalism or whatever. And I sometimes look at it and I'm like, I don't think you guys really know what it takes to just like get stuff done. You know what I mean? Like, it's a lot of grind. I don't think it's a big nasty thing. It's just a lot of hard work, right?Brandon: Yeah, I mean, 1000%. Or if it's not a sort of misunderstanding, but a sort of like disinterest in like, right, like a sort of high minded, like, oh, that's just the sort of petty grimy commerce of it all. I care about the beauty and the art. And it's just like, friend, we need booksellers to like, sell this. I mean, to me, the part of it that is most to me, like the most illustrative example of this in my own life is that when I first heard how my editor was going to be describing my book, I was like, that's disgusting. That's horrible. Why are you talking about my race? Why are you talking about like my sexuality? Like, this is horrible. Why can't you just like talk about the plot of the book? Like, what is the matter with you? And then I had, you know, I acquired and edited this book called Henry Henry, which is a queer contemporary retelling of the Henry ad. And it's a wonderful novel. It's so delightful. And I had to go into our sales conference where we are talking to the people whose job it is to sell that book into bookstores to get bookstores to take that book up. And I had to write this incredibly craven description of this novel. And as I was writing it, I was like, I hope Alan, the author, I hope Alan never sees this. He never needs to hear how I'm talking about this book. And as I was doing it, I was like, I will never hold it against my editor again for writing this like, cheesy, cringy copy. Because it's like you, like, you so believe in the art of that book, so much that you want it to give it every fighting chance in the marketplace. And you need to arm your sales team with every weapon of commerce they need to get that book to succeed so that when readers pick it up, they can appreciate all of the beautiful and glorious art of it. And I do think that people, you know, like, people don't really kind of, people don't really understand that. And I do think that part of that is publishing's fault, because they are, they've been rather quick to elide the distinctions between art and commerce. And so like publishing has done a not great job of sort of giving people a lot of faith in its understanding that there's a difference between art and commerce. But yeah, I think, I think there's a lot of misapprehension out there about like, what goes into getting bookstores to acquire that book.Henry: What are the virtues of negative book reviews?Brandon: I was just on a panel about this. I mean, I mean, hopefully a negative book review, like a positive review, or like any review, will allow a reader or the audience to understand the book in a new way, or to create a desire in the reader to pick up the book and see if they agree or disagree or that they, that they have something to argue with or push against as they're reading. You know, when I'm writing a negative review, when I'm writing a review that I feel is trending toward negative, I should say, I always try to like, I don't know, I try to always remember that like, this is just me presenting my experience of the book and my take of the book. And hopefully that will be productive or useful for whoever reads the review. And hopefully that my review won't be the only thing that they read and that they will in fact, go pick up the book and see if they agree or disagree. It's hopefully it creates interesting and potentially divergent dialogues or discourses around the text. And fundamentally, I think not every critic feels this way. Not every piece of criticism is like this. But the criticism I write, I'm trying to create the conditions that will refer the reader always back to the text, be it through quotation, be it through, they're so incensed by my argument that they're going to go read the book themselves and then like, yell at me. Like, I think that that's wonderful, but like, always keeping the book at the center. But I think a negative review can, you know, it can start a conversation. It can get people talking about books, which in this culture, this phase of history feels like a win. And hopefully it can sort of be a corrective sometimes to less genuine or perceived less genuine discourses that are existing around the book.Henry: I think even whether or not it's a question of genuine, it's for me, it's just a question of if you tell people this book is good and they give up their time and money and they discover that it's trash, you've done a really bad thing to that person. And like, there might be dozens of them compared to this one author who you've been impolite to or whatever. And it's just a question of don't lie in book, right?Brandon: Well, yeah. I mean, hopefully people are honest, but I do feel sometimes that there is, there's like a lack of honesty. And look, I think that being like, well, I mean, maybe you'll love this. I don't love it, you know, but at least present your opinion in that way. At least be like, you know, there are many interpretations of this thing. Here's my interpretation. Maybe you'll feel differently or something like that. But I do think that people feel that there have been a great number of dishonest book reviews. Maybe there have been, maybe there have not been. I certainly have read some reviews I felt were dishonest about books that I have read. And I think that the negative book review does feel a bit like a corrective in a lot of ways, both, you know, justified or unjustified. People are like, finally, someone's being honest about this thing. But yeah, I think it's interesting. I think it's all really, I think it's all fascinating. I do think that there are some reviews though, that are negative and that are trying to be about the book, but are really about the author. There are some reviews that I have read that have been ostensibly about reviewing a text, but which have really been about, you don't like that person and you have decided to sort of like take an axe to them. And that to me feels not super productive. I wouldn't do it, but other people find it useful.Henry: As in, you can tell that from the review or you know that from background information?Brandon: I mean, this is all projection, of course, but like there have been some reviews where I've read, like, for example, some of the Lauren Oyler reviews, I think some of the Lauren Oyler reviews were negative and were exclusively about the text. And they sort of took the text apart and sort of dissected it and came to conclusions, some of which I agreed with, some of which I didn't agree with, but they were fundamentally about the text. And like all the criticisms referred back to the text. And then there were some that were like projecting attitudes onto the author that were more about creating this sort of vaporous shape of Lauren Oyler and then sort of poking holes in her literary celebrity or her stature as a critic or what have you. And that to me felt less productive as like a book review.Henry: Yes. Who are your favorite reviewers?Brandon: Ooh, my favorite reviewers. I really love Christian Lawrence. And he does my, of the critics who try to do the sort of like mini historiography of like a thing. He's my favorite because he teaches me a lot. He sort of is so good at summing up an era or summing up a phase of literary production without being like so cringe or so socialist about it. I really love, I love it when he sort of distills and dissects an era. I really like Hermione Hobie. I think she's really interesting. And she writes about books with a lot of feeling and a lot of energy. And I really love her mind. And of course, like Patricia Lockwood, of course, everyone, perhaps not everyone, but I enjoy Patricia Lockwood's criticism. You don't?Henry: Not really.Brandon: Oh, is it because it's too chatty? Is it too, is it too selfie?Henry: A little bit. I think, I think that kind of criticism can work really well. But I think, I think it's too much. I think basically she's very, she's a very stylized writer and a lot of her judgments get, it gets to the point where it's like, this is the logical conclusion of what you're trying to do stylistically. And there are some zingers in here and some great lines and whatever, but we're no longer, this is no longer really a book review.Brandon: Yeah.Henry: Like by the, by the end of the paragraph, this, like, we didn't want to let the style go. We didn't want to lose the opportunity to cap that off. And it leads her into, I think, glibness a lot of the time.Brandon: Yeah. I could see that. I mean, I mean, I enjoy reading her pieces, but do I understand like what's important to her at a sort of literary level? I don't know. I don't, and in that sense, like, are they, is it criticism or is it closer to like personal essay, humorous essay? I don't know. Maybe that's true. I enjoy reading them, but I get why people are like, this is a very, very strong flavor for sure.Henry: Now you've been reading a lot of literary criticism.Brandon: Oh yeah.Henry: Not of the LRB variety, but of the, the old books in libraries variety. Yes. How did that start? How did, how did you come to this?Brandon: Somewhat like ham-fistedly. I, in 2021, I had a really bad case of writer's block and I thought maybe part of the reason I had writer's block was that I didn't know anything about writing or I didn't know anything about like literature or like writing. I'd been writing, I'd published a novel. I was working on another novel. I'd published a book of stories, but like, I just like truly didn't know anything about literature really. And I thought I need some big boy ideas. I need, I need to find out what adults think about literature. And so I went to my buddy, Christian Lorenzen, and I was like, you write criticism. What is it? And what should I read? And he gave me a sort of starter list of criticism. And it was like the liberal imagination by Lionel Trilling and Guy Davenport and Alfred Kazin who wrote On Native Grounds, which is this great book on the American literary tradition and Leslie Fiedler's Love and Death in the American Novel. And I, and then Edmund Wilson's Axel's Castle. And I read all of those. And then as each one would sort of refer to a different text or person, I sort of like followed the footnotes down into this rabbit hole of like literary criticism. And now it's been a sort of ongoing project of the last few years of like reading. I always try to have a book of criticism on the go. And then earlier this year, I read Jameson's The Antimonies of Realism. And he kept talking about this Georg Lukács guy. And I was like, I guess I should go read Lukács. And so then I started reading Lukács so that I could get back to Jameson. And I've been reading Lukács ever since. I am like deep down the Lukács rabbit hole. But I'm not reading any of the socialism stuff. I told myself that I wouldn't read any of the socialism stuff and I would only read the literary criticism stuff, which makes me very different from a lot of the socialist literary critics I really enjoy because they're like Lukács, don't read in that literary criticism stuff, just read his socialism stuff. So I'm reading all the wrong stuff from Lukács, but I really, I really love it. But yeah, it sort of started because I thought I needed grown up ideas about literature. And it's been, I don't know, I've really enjoyed it. I really, really enjoy it. It's given me perhaps terrible ideas about what novels should be or do. But, you know, that's one of the side effects to reading.Henry: Has it made, like, what specific ways has it changed how you've written since you've acquired a set of critical principles or ideas?Brandon: Yeah, I mean, I think part of it is, part of it has to do with Lukács' idea of the totality. And, you know, I think that the sort of most direct way that it shows up in a sort of really practical way in my novel writing is that I no longer really want to be starting my books, quote unquote, in media res. Like, I don't want, I want my books to feel like books. I don't want my books to feel like movies. And I don't want them to feel like treatments for film. And so I want to sort of bring back all of what a novel can do in terms of its structure and in terms of its form and stuff like that. And so it means starting books, you know, with this sort of Dickensian voice of God speaking from on high, sort of summing up an era. And I think also sort of allowing the narrators in my work to dare to sum up, allowing characters in my work to have ideologies and to argue about those ideologies. I feel like that is a thing that was sort of denuded from the American novel for a lot of millennials and just sort of like trying to put back some of that old fashioned machinery that was like stripped out of the novel. And seeing what of it can still function, seeing, trying to figure out if there's any juice left in these modes of representation and stuff like that. And so like that, that's sort of, that's sort of abstract, but like in a concrete way, like what I'm kind of trying to resolve in my novel writing these days.Henry: You mentioned Dickens.Brandon: Oh, yes.Henry: Which Dickens novels do you like?Brandon: Now I'm afraid I'm going to say something else controversial. We love controversial. Which Dickens? I love Bleak House. I love Bleak House. I love Tale of Two Cities. It is one of the best openings ever, ever, ever, ever in the sweep of that book at once personal and universal anyway. Bleak House, Tale of Two Cities. And I also, I read Great Expectations as like a high school student and didn't like it, hated it. It was so boring. But now coming back to it, I think it, honestly, it might be the novel of our time. I think it might accidentally be a novel. I mean, it's a novel of scammers, a novel of like, interpersonal beef taken to the level of like, spiritual conflict, like it's about thieves and class, like it just feels like like that novel could have been written today about people today, like that book just feels so alive to today's concerns, which perhaps, I don't know, says something really evil about this cultural stagnation under capitalism, perhaps, but I don't know, love, love Great Expectations now.Henry: Why are so many modern novels boring?Brandon: Well, depends on what you mean by boring, Henry, what do you mean? Why?Henry: I mean, you said this.Brandon: Oh.Henry: I mean, I happen to agree, but this is, I'm quoting you.Brandon: Oh, yes. I remember that. I remember that review.Henry: I mean, I can tell you why I think they're boring.Brandon: Oh, yes, please.Henry: So I think, I think what you said before is true. They all read like movies. And I think I very often I go in, I pick up six or seven books on the new book table. And I'm like, these openings are all just the same. You're all thinking you can all see Netflix in your head. This is not really a novel. And so the dialogue is really boring, because you kind of you can hear some actor or actress saying it. But I can't hear that because I'm the idiot stuck in the bookshop reading your Netflix script. Whereas, you know, I think you're right that a lot of those traditional forms of storytelling, they like pull you in to the to the novel. And they and they like by the end of the first few pages, you sort of feel like I'm in this funny place now. And to do in media res, like, someone needs to get shot, or something, something weird needs to be said, like, you can't just do another, another standard opening. So I think that's a big, that's a big point.Brandon: Well, as Lukasz tells us, bourgeois realism has a, an unholy fondness for the, the average, the merely average, as opposed to the typical. And I think, yeah, a lot of it, a lot of why I think it's boring echoes you, I think that for me, what I find boring, and a lot of them is that it feels like novelists have abandoned any desire to, to have their characters or the novels themselves integrate the sort of disparate experiences within the novel into any kind of meaningful hole. And so there isn't this like sense of like things advancing toward a grander understanding. And I think a lot of it is because they've, they are writing under the assumption that like the question of why can never be answered. There can never be like a why, there can never be a sort of significance to anything. And so everything is sort of like evacuated of significance or meaning. And so you have what I've taken to calling like reality TV fiction, where the characters are just like going places and doing things, and there are no thoughts, there are no thoughts about their lives, or no thoughts about the things that they are doing, there are no thoughts about their experiences. And it's just a lot of like, like lowercase e events in their lives, but like no attempt to organize those events into any sort of meaningful hole. And I think also just like, what leads to a lot of dead writing is writers who are deeply aware that they're writing about themes, they're writing about themes instead of people. And they're working from generalities instead of particularities and specificities. And they have no understanding of the relationship between the universal and the particular. And so like, everything is just like, like beans in a can that they're shaking around. And I think that that's really boring. I think it's really tedious. Like, like, sure, we can we can find something really profound in the mundane, but like, you have to be really smart to do that. So like the average novelist is like better off like, starting with a gunshot or something like do something big.Henry: If you're not Virginia Woolf, it is in fact just mundane.Brandon: Indeed. Yeah.Henry: Is there too much emphasis on craft? In the way, in the way, in like what's valued among writers, in the way writers are taught, I feel like everything I see is about craft. And I'm like, craft is good, but that can just be like how you make a table rather than like how you make a house. Craft is not the guarantor of anything. And I see a lot of books where I think this person knows some craft. But as you say, they don't really have an application for it. And they don't. No one actually said to them, all style has a moral purpose, whether you're aware of it or not. And so they default to this like pointless use of the craft. And someone should say to them, like, you need to know history. You need to know tennis. You need to know business. You need to know like whatever, you know. And I feel like the novels I don't like are reflections of the discourse bubble that the novelist lives in. And I feel like it's often the continuation of Twitter by other means. So in the Rachel Kong novel that I think it came out this year, there's a character, a billionaire character who comes in near the end. And everything that he says or that is said about him is literally just meme. It's online billionaire meme because billionaires are bad because of all the things we all know from being on Twitter. And I was like, so you just we literally have him a character as meme. And this is the most representative thing to me, because that's maybe there's craft in that. Right. But what you've chosen to craft is like 28 tweets. That's pointless.Brandon: 28 tweets be a great title for a book, though, you have to admit, I would buy that book off the new book table. 28 tweets. I would. I would buy that. Yeah, I do think. Well, I think it goes both ways. I think it goes both ways. I somewhat famously said this about Sally Rooney that like she her books have no craft. The craft is bad. And I do think like there are writers who only have craft, who are able to sort of create these wonderfully structured books and to sort of deploy these beautiful techniques. And those books are absolutely dead. There's just like nothing in them because they have nothing to say. There's just like nothing to be said about any of that. And on the other hand, you have these books that are full of feelings that like would be better had someone taught that person about structure or form or had they sort of had like a rigorous thing. And I would say that like both of those are probably bad, like depending on who you are, you find one more like, like easier to deal with than the other. I do think that like part of why there's such an emphasis on craft is because not to sort of bring capitalism back in but you can monetize craft, you know what I mean? Like, craft is one of those things that is like readily monetizable. Like, if I'm a writer, and I would like to make money, and I can't sell a novel, I can tell people like, oh, how to craft a perfect opening, how to create a novel opening that will make agents pick it up and that will make editors say yes, but like what the sort of promise of craft is that you can finish a thing, but not that it is good, as you say, there's no guarantor. Whereas you know, like it's harder to monetize someone's soul, or like, it's harder to monetize like the sort of random happenstance of just like a writer's voice sort of emerging from from whatever, like you can't turn that into profit. But you can turn into profit, let me help you craft your voice. So it's very grind set, I think craft has a tendency to sort of skew toward the grind set and toward people trying to make money from, from writing when they can't sell a book, you know. Henry: Let's play a game. Brandon: Oh dear.Henry: I say the name of a writer. You give us like the 30 second Brandon Taylor opinion of that writer.Brandon: Okay. Yeah.Henry: Jonathan Franzen.Brandon: Thomas Mann, but like, slightly more boring, I think.Henry: Iris Murdoch.Brandon: A friend of mine calls her a modern calls her the sort of pre Sally Rooney, Sally Rooney. And I agree with that.Henry: When I'm at parties, I try and sell her to people where I say she's post-war Sally Rooney.Brandon: Yes, yes. And like, and like all that that entails, and so many delightful, I read all these like incredible sort of mid century reviews of her novels, and like the men, the male critics, like the Bernard Breganzis of the world being like, why is there so much sex in this book? It's amazing. Please go look up those like mid-century reviews of Iris Murdoch. They were losing their minds. Henry: Chekhov.Brandon: Perfect, iconic, baby girl, angel, legend. Can't get enough. 10 out of 10.Henry: Evelyn Waugh.Brandon: So Catholic, real Catholic vibes. But like, scabrously funny. And like, perhaps the last writer to write about life as though it had meaning. Hot take, but I'll, I stand by it.Henry: Yeah, well, him and Murdoch. But yeah, no, I think I think there's a lot in that. C.V. Wedgwood.Brandon: Oh, my gosh. The best, a titan, a master of history. Like, oh, my God. I would not be the same without Wedgwood.Henry: Tell us which one we should read.Brandon: Oh, the 30 Years War. What are you talking about?Henry: Well, I think her books on the English Civil War… I'm a parochial Brit.Brandon: Oh, see, I don't, not that I don't, I will go read those. But her book on the 30 Years War is so incredible. It's, it's amazing. It's second to like, Froissart's Chronicles for like, sort of history, history books for me.Henry: Northrop Frye.Brandon: My father. I, Northrop Frye taught me so much about how to see and how to think. Just amazing, a true thinker in a mind. Henry: Which book? Brandon: Oh, Anatomy of Criticism is fantastic. But Fearful Symmetry is just, it will blow your head off. Just amazing. But if you're looking for like, to have your, your mind gently remapped, then Anatomy of Criticism.Henry: Emma Cline.Brandon: A throwback. I think she's, I think she's Anne Beattie meets John Cheever for a new era. And I think she's amazing. She's perfect. Don't love her first novel. I think her stories are better. She's a short story writer. And she should stay that way.Henry: Okay, now I want you to rank Jane Austen's novels.Brandon: Wait, okay. So like, by my preference, or by like, what I think is the best?Henry: You can do both.Brandon: Okay. So in terms, my favorite, Persuasion. Then Mansfield Park. Sense and Sensibility. Pride and Prejudice. And then Emma, then Northanger Abbey. Okay.Henry: Now, how about for which ones are the best?Brandon: Persuasion. Pride and Prejudice. Mansfield Park. Emma,.Sense and Sensibility. Northanger Abbey.Henry: Why do people not like Fanny Price? And what is wrong with them?Brandon: Fanny Price is perfect. Fanny Price, I was just talking to someone about this last night at dinner. Fanny Price, she's perfect. First of all, she is, I don't know why people don't like her. She's like a chronically ill girl who's hot for her cousin and like, has deep thoughts. It seems like she would be the icon of literary Twitter for like a certain kind of person, you know? And I don't know why they don't like her. I think I'm, I am becoming the loudest Mansfield Park apologist on the internet. I think that people don't like Fanny because she's less vivacious than Mary Crawford. And I think that people are afraid to see themselves in Fanny because she seems like she's unfun or whatever. But what they don't realize is that like Fanny Price, Fanny Price has like a moral intelligence and like a moral consciousness. And like Fanny Price is one of the few Austen characters who actually argues directly and literally about the way the world is. Like with multiple people, like the whole, the whole novel is her sort of arguing about, well, cities are this and the country is this. And like, we need Parsons as much as we need party boys. Like, like she's arguing not just about, not just about these things like through the lens of like marriage or like the sort of marriage economy, but like in literal terms, I mean, she is so, she's like a moral philosopher. I love Fanny Price and she's so smart and so sensitive and so, and I guess like maybe it's just that people don't like a character who's kind of at the mercy of others and they view her as passive. When in fact, like a young woman arguing about the way the world should be, like Mary Crawford's, Mary Crawford's like kind of doing the above, not really, not like Fanny. But yeah, I love her. She's amazing. I love Fanny Price. And I also think that people love Margaret Hale from North and South. And I think that when people are saying they hate Fanny Price, what they're picturing is actually how Margaret Hale is. Margaret Hale is one of the worst heroines of a novel. She's so insufferable. She's so rude. She's so condescending. And like, she does get her comeuppance and like Gaskell does sort of bring about a transformation where she's actually able to sort of like see poor people as people first and not like subjects of sympathy. But Margaret is what people imagine Fanny is, I think. And we should, we should start a Fanny Price, like booster club. Henry, should we? Let's do it. It begins here. I just feel so strongly about her. I feel, I love, I love Fanny.Henry: She's my favorite of Austen's characters. And I think she is the most representative Austen character. She's the most Austen of all of them, right?Brandon: Yeah, I mean, that makes great deal of sense to me. She's just so wonderful. Like she's so funny and so observant. And she's like this quiet little girl who's like kind of sickly and people don't really like her. And she's kind of maybe I'm just like, maybe I just like see myself in her. And I don't mind being a sort of annoying little person who's going around the world.Henry: What are some good principles for naming literary characters?Brandon: Ooh, I have a lot of strong feelings about this. I think that names should be memorable. They should have like, like an aura of sort of literariness about them. I don't mean, I mean, taken to like hilarious extremes. It's like Henry James. Catherine Goodwood, Isabelle Archer, Ralph Touchett, like, you know, Henry had a stack pole. So like, not like that. But I mean, that could be fun in a modern way. But I think there's like an aura of like, it's a name that you might hear in real life, but it sort of add or remove, it's sort of charged and elevated, sort of like with dialogue. And that it's like a memorable thing that sort of like, you know, it's like, you know, memorable thing that sort of sticks in the reader's mind. It is both a name, a literary, a good literary name is both a part of this world and not of this world, I think. And, yeah, and I love that. I think like, don't give your character a name like you hear all the time. Like, Tyler is a terrible literary name. Like, no novel has ever, no good novel has ever had a really important character named Tyler in it. It just hasn't. Ryan? What makes a good sentence? Well, my sort of like, live and let live answer is that a good sentence is a sentence that is perfectly suited to the purpose it has. But I don't know, I like a clear sentence, regardless of length or lyric intensity, but just like a clear sentence that articulates something. I like a sentence with motion, a sense of rhythm, a sense of feel without any bad words in it. And I don't mean like curse words, I mean like words that shouldn't be in literature. Like, there's some words that just like don't belong in novels.Henry: Like what?Brandon: Squelch. Like, I don't think the word squelch should be in a novel. That's a gross word and it doesn't sound literary to me. I don't want to see it.Henry: I wouldn't be surprised if it was in Ulysses.Brandon: Well, yes.Henry: I have no idea, but I'm sure, I'm sure.Brandon: But so few of us are James Joyce. And that novel is like a thousand bodily functions per page. But don't love it. Don't love it.Henry: You don't love Ulysses?Brandon: No, I don't… Listen, I don't have a strong opinion, but you're not going to get me cancelled about Ulysses. I'm not Virginia Woolf.Henry: We're happy to have opinions of that nature here. That's fine.Brandon: You know, I don't have a strong feeling about it, actually. Some parts of it that I've read are really wonderful. And some parts of it that I have read are really dense and confusing to me. I haven't sort of given it the time it needs or deserves. What did you learn from reading Toni Morris? What did I learn? I think I learned a lot about the moral force of melodrama. I think that she shows us a lot about the uses of melodrama and how it isn't just like a lesion of realism, that it isn't just a sort of malfunctioning realism, but that there are certain experiences and certain lives and certain things that require and necessitate melodrama. And when deployed, it's not tacky or distasteful that it actually is like deeply necessary. And also just like the joy of access and language, like the sort of... Her language is so towering. I don't know, whenever I'm being really shy about a sentence being too vivid or too much, I'm like, well, Toni Morrison would just go for it. And I am not Toni Morrison, but she has given me the courage to try.Henry: What did you like about the Annette Benning film of The Seagull?Brandon: The moment when Annette Benning sings Dark Eyes is so good. It's so good. I think about it all the time. And indeed, I stole that moment for a short story that I wrote. And I liked that part of it. I liked the set design. I think also Saoirse Ronan, when she gives that speech as Nina, where she's like, you know, where the guy's like, what do you want from, you know, what do you want? Why do you want to be an actress? And she's like, I want fame. You know, like, I want to be totally adored. And I'm just like, yeah, that's so real. That's so, that is so real. Like Chekhov has understood something so deep, so deep about the nature of commerce and art there. And I think Saoirse is really wonderful in that movie. It's a not, it's not a good movie. It's maybe not even a good adaptation of The Seagull. But I really enjoyed it. I saw it like five times in a theater in Iowa City.Henry: I don't know if it's a bad adaptation of The Seagull, because it's one of the, it's one of the Chekhov's I've seen that actually understands that, like, the tragic and the and the comic are not meant to be easily distinguishable in his work. And it does have all this lightheartedness. And it is quite funny. And I was like, well, at least someone's doing that because I'm so sick of, like, gloomy Chekhov. You know what I mean? Like, oh, the clouds and the misery. Like, no, he wants you, he wants you to laugh and then be like, I shouldn't laugh because it's kind of tragic, but it's also just funny.Brandon: Yeah. Yes, I mean, all the moments were like, like Annette Bening's characters, like endless stories, like she's just like constantly unfurling a story and a story and a story and a story. Every scene kind of was like, she's in the middle of telling another interminable anecdote. And of course, the sort of big tragic turn at the end is like, where like, Kostya kills himself. And she's like, in the middle of like, another really long anecdote while they're in the other room playing cards. Like, it's so, it's so good. So I love that. I enjoy watching that movie. I still think it's maybe not. It's a little wooden, like as a movie, like it's a little, it's a little rickety.Henry: Oh, sure, sure, sure, sure. But for someone looking to like, get a handle on Chekhov, it's actually a good place to go. What is the best make of Fountain Pen?Brandon: That's a really good, that's a really, really, really good question. Like, what's your Desert Island Fountain Pen? My Desert Island Fountain Pen. Right now, it's an Esterbrook Estee with a needlepoint nib. It's like, so, I can use that pen for hours and hours and hours and hours. I think my favorite Fountain Pen, though, is probably the Pilot Custom 743. It's a really good pen, not too big, not too small. It can hold a ton of ink, really wonderful. I use, I think, like a Soft Fine nib, incredible nib, so smooth. Like, I, you could cap it and then uncap it a month later, and it just like starts immediately. It's amazing. And it's not too expensive.Henry: Brandon Taylor, thank you very much.Brandon: Thanks for having me. This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.commonreader.co.uk/subscribe

Wenzel, Tobias www.deutschlandfunkkultur.de, Lesart

Wenzel, Tobias www.deutschlandfunkkultur.de, Lesart

Whatever happened to selling out? The defining concern of Generation X has become a relic from another era. How that happened is best illustrated by one of the idea's last gasps, when in 2001, Oprah Winfrey invited author Jonathan Franzen to come on her show to discuss his new novel The Corrections. A month later, she withdrew the invitation, kicking off a media firestorm. The Oprah-Franzen Book Club Dust-Up of 2001 was a moment when two ways of thinking about selling out smashed into each other, and one of them—the one that was on its way out already—crashed and burned in public, seldom to be seen again. Some of the voices you'll hear in this episode include screenwriter Helen Childress; writer and musician Franz Nicolay; New York Times critic Wesley Morris, Oprah producer Alice McGee; Boris Kachka, author of Hothouse: The Art of Survival and the Survival of Art at America's Most Celebrated Publishing House, Farrar, Straus, and Giroux; Bethany Klein, author of Selling Out: Culture, Commerce and Popular Music; and Laura Miller, Slate's book critic. This episode was written by Willa Paskin and produced by Benjamin Frisch. It was edited by Benjamin Frisch and Gabriel Roth. Cleo Levin was our research assistant. Decoder Ring is produced by Evan Chung, Katie Shepherd, and Max Freedman, with help from Sofie Kodner. Derek John is Executive Producer. Merritt Jacob is Senior Technical Director. If you haven't yet, please subscribe and rate our feed in Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. And even better, tell your friends. If you're a fan of the show, please sign up for Slate Plus. Members get to listen to Decoder Ring and all other Slate podcasts without any ads and have total access to Slate's website. Your support is also crucial to our work. Go to slate.com/decoderplus to join Slate Plus today.  Disclosure: A Bond Account is a self-directed brokerage account with Public Investing, member FINRA/SIPC. Deposits into this account are used to purchase 10 investment-grade and high-yield bonds. As of 9/26/24, the average, annualized yield to worst (YTW) across the Bond Account is greater than 6%. A bond's yield is a function of its market price, which can fluctuate; therefore, a bond's YTW is not “locked in” until the bond is purchased, and your yield at time of purchase may be different from the yield shown here. The “locked in” YTW is not guaranteed; you may receive less than the YTW of the bonds in the Bond Account if you sell any of the bonds before maturity or if the issuer defaults on the bond. Public Investing charges a markup on each bond trade. See our Fee Schedule. Bond Accounts are not recommendations of individual bonds or default allocations. The bonds in the Bond Account have not been selected based on your needs or risk profile. See https://public.com/disclosures/bond-account to learn more. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

La traduttrice Silvia Pareschi ha dato una voce italiana a scrittori come Jonathan Franzen, Cormac McCarthy ed Ernest Hemingway. Nel suo ultimo libro raccoglie riflessioni e retroscena sul suo lavoro. All we imagine as light - Amore a Mumbai è un film che racconta la complessità della società indiana di oggi attraverso la voce di tre donne. A Roma va in scena Roberto Zucco, un'opera teatrale diretta da Giorgina Pi ispirato a un sanguinoso fatto di cronaca della fine degli anni ottanta. Corpi sapienti è un manuale illustrato di filosofia per bambine e bambini che riflette sul rapporto tra noi e il mondo partendo dal corpo. CONSilvia Pareschi, traduttrice Marina Forti, giornalistaGiorgina Pi, regista e drammaturga Ilaria Rodella, filosofa e cofondatrice di LudosoficiSe ascolti questo podcast e ti piace, abbonati a Internazionale. È un modo concreto per sostenerci e per aiutarci a garantire ogni giorno un'informazione di qualità . Vai su internazionale.it/podcastScrivi a podcast@internazionale.it o manda un vocale a +39 3347063050Produzione di Claudio Balboni e Vincenzo De Simone.Musiche di Carlo Madaghiele, Raffaele Scogna, Jonathan Zenti e Giacomo Zorzi.Direzione creativa di Jonathan Zenti.Fra le righe: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lA5R68o9wTIAll we imagine as light: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pBKNifpTSFkRoberto Zucco: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lHCL7VbZCKoCorpi sapienti: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WyofKBRpRqU

We can show (as opposed to tell) about a character's personality by describing the character's face and body, so that our physical description does double duty.  Jonathan Franzen's ten rules of writing.  And techniques to add atmosphere to our scenes.Support the show

Whatever happened to selling out? The defining concern of Generation X has become a relic from another era. How that happened is best illustrated by one of the idea's last gasps, when in 2001, Oprah Winfrey invited author Jonathan Franzen to come on her show to discuss his new novel The Corrections. A month later, she withdrew the invitation, kicking off a media firestorm. The Oprah-Franzen Book Club Dust-Up of 2001 was a moment when two ways of thinking about selling out smashed into each other, and one of them—the one that was on its way out already—crashed and burned in public, seldom to be seen again. Some of the voices you'll hear in this episode include screenwriter Helen Childress; writer and musician Franz Nicolay; New York Times critic Wesley Morris, Oprah producer Alice McGee; Boris Kachka, author of Hothouse: The Art of Survival and the Survival of Art at America's Most Celebrated Publishing House, Farrar, Straus, and Giroux; Bethany Klein, author of Selling Out: Culture, Commerce and Popular Music; and Laura Miller, Slate's book critic. This episode was written by Willa Paskin and produced by Benjamin Frisch. It was edited by Benjamin Frisch and Gabriel Roth. Cleo Levin was our research assistant. Decoder Ring is produced by Evan Chung, Katie Shepherd, and Max Freedman, with help from Sofie Kodner. Derek John is Executive Producer. Merritt Jacob is Senior Technical Director. If you haven't yet, please subscribe and rate our feed in Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. And even better, tell your friends. If you're a fan of the show, please sign up for Slate Plus. Members get to listen to Decoder Ring and all other Slate podcasts without any ads and have total access to Slate's website. Your support is also crucial to our work. Go to slate.com/decoderplus to join Slate Plus today.  Disclosure: A Bond Account is a self-directed brokerage account with Public Investing, member FINRA/SIPC. Deposits into this account are used to purchase 10 investment-grade and high-yield bonds. As of 9/26/24, the average, annualized yield to worst (YTW) across the Bond Account is greater than 6%. A bond's yield is a function of its market price, which can fluctuate; therefore, a bond's YTW is not “locked in” until the bond is purchased, and your yield at time of purchase may be different from the yield shown here. The “locked in” YTW is not guaranteed; you may receive less than the YTW of the bonds in the Bond Account if you sell any of the bonds before maturity or if the issuer defaults on the bond. Public Investing charges a markup on each bond trade. See our Fee Schedule. Bond Accounts are not recommendations of individual bonds or default allocations. The bonds in the Bond Account have not been selected based on your needs or risk profile. See https://public.com/disclosures/bond-account to learn more. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Whatever happened to selling out? The defining concern of Generation X has become a relic from another era. How that happened is best illustrated by one of the idea's last gasps, when in 2001, Oprah Winfrey invited author Jonathan Franzen to come on her show to discuss his new novel The Corrections. A month later, she withdrew the invitation, kicking off a media firestorm. The Oprah-Franzen Book Club Dust-Up of 2001 was a moment when two ways of thinking about selling out smashed into each other, and one of them—the one that was on its way out already—crashed and burned in public, seldom to be seen again. Some of the voices you'll hear in this episode include screenwriter Helen Childress; writer and musician Franz Nicolay; New York Times critic Wesley Morris, Oprah producer Alice McGee; Boris Kachka, author of Hothouse: The Art of Survival and the Survival of Art at America's Most Celebrated Publishing House, Farrar, Straus, and Giroux; Bethany Klein, author of Selling Out: Culture, Commerce and Popular Music; and Laura Miller, Slate's book critic. This episode was written by Willa Paskin and produced by Benjamin Frisch. It was edited by Benjamin Frisch and Gabriel Roth. Cleo Levin was our research assistant. Decoder Ring is produced by Evan Chung, Katie Shepherd, and Max Freedman, with help from Sofie Kodner. Derek John is Executive Producer. Merritt Jacob is Senior Technical Director. If you haven't yet, please subscribe and rate our feed in Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. And even better, tell your friends. If you're a fan of the show, please sign up for Slate Plus. Members get to listen to Decoder Ring and all other Slate podcasts without any ads and have total access to Slate's website. Your support is also crucial to our work. Go to slate.com/decoderplus to join Slate Plus today.  Disclosure: A Bond Account is a self-directed brokerage account with Public Investing, member FINRA/SIPC. Deposits into this account are used to purchase 10 investment-grade and high-yield bonds. As of 9/26/24, the average, annualized yield to worst (YTW) across the Bond Account is greater than 6%. A bond's yield is a function of its market price, which can fluctuate; therefore, a bond's YTW is not “locked in” until the bond is purchased, and your yield at time of purchase may be different from the yield shown here. The “locked in” YTW is not guaranteed; you may receive less than the YTW of the bonds in the Bond Account if you sell any of the bonds before maturity or if the issuer defaults on the bond. Public Investing charges a markup on each bond trade. See our Fee Schedule. Bond Accounts are not recommendations of individual bonds or default allocations. The bonds in the Bond Account have not been selected based on your needs or risk profile. See https://public.com/disclosures/bond-account to learn more. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Whatever happened to selling out? The defining concern of Generation X has become a relic from another era. How that happened is best illustrated by one of the idea's last gasps, when in 2001, Oprah Winfrey invited author Jonathan Franzen to come on her show to discuss his new novel The Corrections. A month later, she withdrew the invitation, kicking off a media firestorm. The Oprah-Franzen Book Club Dust-Up of 2001 was a moment when two ways of thinking about selling out smashed into each other, and one of them—the one that was on its way out already—crashed and burned in public, seldom to be seen again. Some of the voices you'll hear in this episode include screenwriter Helen Childress; writer and musician Franz Nicolay; New York Times critic Wesley Morris, Oprah producer Alice McGee; Boris Kachka, author of Hothouse: The Art of Survival and the Survival of Art at America's Most Celebrated Publishing House, Farrar, Straus, and Giroux; Bethany Klein, author of Selling Out: Culture, Commerce and Popular Music; and Laura Miller, Slate's book critic. This episode was written by Willa Paskin and produced by Benjamin Frisch. It was edited by Benjamin Frisch and Gabriel Roth. Cleo Levin was our research assistant. Decoder Ring is produced by Evan Chung, Katie Shepherd, and Max Freedman, with help from Sofie Kodner. Derek John is Executive Producer. Merritt Jacob is Senior Technical Director. If you haven't yet, please subscribe and rate our feed in Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. And even better, tell your friends. If you're a fan of the show, please sign up for Slate Plus. Members get to listen to Decoder Ring and all other Slate podcasts without any ads and have total access to Slate's website. Your support is also crucial to our work. Go to slate.com/decoderplus to join Slate Plus today.  Disclosure: A Bond Account is a self-directed brokerage account with Public Investing, member FINRA/SIPC. Deposits into this account are used to purchase 10 investment-grade and high-yield bonds. As of 9/26/24, the average, annualized yield to worst (YTW) across the Bond Account is greater than 6%. A bond's yield is a function of its market price, which can fluctuate; therefore, a bond's YTW is not “locked in” until the bond is purchased, and your yield at time of purchase may be different from the yield shown here. The “locked in” YTW is not guaranteed; you may receive less than the YTW of the bonds in the Bond Account if you sell any of the bonds before maturity or if the issuer defaults on the bond. Public Investing charges a markup on each bond trade. See our Fee Schedule. Bond Accounts are not recommendations of individual bonds or default allocations. The bonds in the Bond Account have not been selected based on your needs or risk profile. See https://public.com/disclosures/bond-account to learn more. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Whatever happened to selling out? The defining concern of Generation X has become a relic from another era. How that happened is best illustrated by one of the idea's last gasps, when in 2001, Oprah Winfrey invited author Jonathan Franzen to come on her show to discuss his new novel The Corrections. A month later, she withdrew the invitation, kicking off a media firestorm. The Oprah-Franzen Book Club Dust-Up of 2001 was a moment when two ways of thinking about selling out smashed into each other, and one of them—the one that was on its way out already—crashed and burned in public, seldom to be seen again. Some of the voices you'll hear in this episode include screenwriter Helen Childress; writer and musician Franz Nicolay; New York Times critic Wesley Morris, Oprah producer Alice McGee; Boris Kachka, author of Hothouse: The Art of Survival and the Survival of Art at America's Most Celebrated Publishing House, Farrar, Straus, and Giroux; Bethany Klein, author of Selling Out: Culture, Commerce and Popular Music; and Laura Miller, Slate's book critic. This episode was written by Willa Paskin and produced by Benjamin Frisch. It was edited by Benjamin Frisch and Gabriel Roth. Cleo Levin was our research assistant. Decoder Ring is produced by Evan Chung, Katie Shepherd, and Max Freedman, with help from Sofie Kodner. Derek John is Executive Producer. Merritt Jacob is Senior Technical Director. If you haven't yet, please subscribe and rate our feed in Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. And even better, tell your friends. If you're a fan of the show, please sign up for Slate Plus. Members get to listen to Decoder Ring and all other Slate podcasts without any ads and have total access to Slate's website. Your support is also crucial to our work. Go to slate.com/decoderplus to join Slate Plus today.  Disclosure: A Bond Account is a self-directed brokerage account with Public Investing, member FINRA/SIPC. Deposits into this account are used to purchase 10 investment-grade and high-yield bonds. As of 9/26/24, the average, annualized yield to worst (YTW) across the Bond Account is greater than 6%. A bond's yield is a function of its market price, which can fluctuate; therefore, a bond's YTW is not “locked in” until the bond is purchased, and your yield at time of purchase may be different from the yield shown here. The “locked in” YTW is not guaranteed; you may receive less than the YTW of the bonds in the Bond Account if you sell any of the bonds before maturity or if the issuer defaults on the bond. Public Investing charges a markup on each bond trade. See our Fee Schedule. Bond Accounts are not recommendations of individual bonds or default allocations. The bonds in the Bond Account have not been selected based on your needs or risk profile. See https://public.com/disclosures/bond-account to learn more. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Colson Whitehead is one of the rare authors to win the Pulitzer Prize twice. The first time was for his novel "The Underground Railroad" in 2017, loved by Barack Obama and Oprah Winfrey and made into a TV series by Oscar-winning director Barry Jenkins. It led to him being on the cover of Time Magazine, the first author in nearly a decade to grace the front page since Jonathan Franzen. Colson Whitehead was honoured again for "The Nickel Boys" in 2020 – adapted into a film due out in the autumn. He is in Paris at the Festival America and for the French release of his novel "Crook Manifesto". The multi-award-winning American author speaks to Eve Jackson about his crime trilogy set in Harlem.

Episode 136I spoke with Clive Thompson about:* How he writes* Writing about the climate and biking across the US* Technology culture and persistent debates in AI* PoetryEnjoy—and let me know what you think!Clive is a journalist who writes about science and technology. He is a contributing writer forWired magazine, and is currently writing his next book about micromobility and cycling across the US.Find me on Twitter for updates on new episodes, and reach me at editor@thegradient.pub for feedback, ideas, guest suggestions. Subscribe to The Gradient Podcast:  Apple Podcasts  | Spotify | Pocket Casts | RSSFollow The Gradient on TwitterOutline:* (00:00) Intro* (01:07) Clive's life as a Tarantino movie* (03:07) Boring life and interesting art, life as material for art* (10:25) Cycling across the US — Clive's new book on mobility and decarbonization* (15:07) Turning inward in writing* (27:21) Including personal experience in writing* (31:53) Personal and less personal writing* (36:08) Conveying uncertainty and the “voice from nowhere” in traditional journalism* (41:10) Finding the natural end of a piece* (1:02:10) Writing routine* (1:05:08) Theories of change in Clive's writing* (1:12:33) How Clive saw things before the rest of us* (1:27:00) Automation in software engineering* (1:31:40) The anthropology of coders, poetry as a framework* (1:43:50) Proust discourse* (1:45:00) Technology culture in NYC + interaction between the tech world and other worlds* (1:50:30) Technological developments Clive wants to see happen (free ideas)* (2:01:11) Clive's argument for memorizing poetry* (2:09:24) How Clive finds poetry* (2:18:03) Clive's pursuit of freelance writing and making compromises* (2:27:25) OutroLinks:* Clive's Twitter and website* Selected writing* The Attack of the Incredible Grading Machine (Lingua Franca, 1999)* The Know-It-All Machine (Lingua Franca, 2001)* How to teach AI some common sense (Wired, 2018)* Blogs to Riches (NY Mag, 2006)* Clive vs. Jonathan Franzen on whether the internet is good for writing (The Chronicle of Higher Education, 2013)* The Minecraft Generation (New York Times, 2016)* What AI College Exam Proctors are Really Teaching Our Kids (Wired, 2020)* Companies Don't Need to Be Creepy to Make Money (Wired, 2021)* Is Sucking Carbon Out of the Air the Solution to Our Climate Crisis? (Mother Jones, 2021)* AI Shouldn't Compete with Workers—It Should Supercharge Them (Wired, 2022)* Back to BASIC—the Most Consequential Programming Language in the History of Computing Wired, 2024) Get full access to The Gradient at thegradientpub.substack.com/subscribe

Roz Dineen's Briefly Very Beautiful is a spellbinding dystopian novel about the lengths one will go to for their children in a world teetering on the edge of apocalypse. In a land destabilized by unsafe air, wildfires, floods, viruses, supply shortages, and homegrown terror, Cass is raising three small children by herself in the city. Her husband, Nathaniel, has gone all too willingly to serve as a medic in an overseas war.His absence, and Cass's isolation, has brought her into an exhausted but harmonious rhythm with the children; while it's a frightening time, there is also a surprising, quiet tenderness in living on the edge of societal collapse. When things start to feel more dangerous in the city, Cass evacuates with the children to her mother-in-law's house deep in the countryside. Initially, it's a place of safety, but her mother-in-law's erratic behavior and increasing grip over the children worries Cass, and so they flee again to a commune on the coast. It's an idyllic place, but Cass comes to suspect this seemingly harmonious community has a dark underbelly. Briefly Very Beautiful is a magnetic novel about love and resilience. Against a wider backdrop of a world imploding, it is an exploration of hope and fear, beauty and joy, as well as seismic betrayal.Roz Dineen's lush prose combines with epic and precise world-building to create a society that feels at once unrecognizable but deeply, chillingly familiar. The result is a compelling portrait of what it is to parent through apocalypse.Roz Dineen was an editor at the Times Literary Supplement for 12 years, serving as fiction editor and later features editor. She has also written extensively for the Times Literary Supplement, where her essays and reviews have covered a range of topics from addiction to motherhood, from Jonathan Franzen to J. G. Ballard and Sally Rooney. She studied English literature at Trinity College, Dublin, received a master's degree in international studies and diplomacy from SOAS, London.Buy the book from Wellington Square Bookshop - ​https://www.wellingtonsquarebooks.com/book/9781419767951

  I remember getting the knife.     It was near Christmas about 10 years ago and Leslie and I were zipping up a tiny suitcase before a beach trip with her grandparents and extended family. We weren't married and I was making a desperate last-second plea to stuff a 576-page novel called ‘The Corrections' by Jonathan Franzen into our bag. “It just won't fit,” Leslie said. “You have … 100 pages left? Want to leave it and read it when we're back?”     I did *not* want to do that.     The book was slipping under my skin—serrating my soul.     So I remember getting that knife.     The deep blasphemous pain I felt slicing the paperback spine and carving the last 100-ish pages off the book was far outweighed by the exquisite suite of pleasures I had slowly savoring it on the beach all week.     I had never read anything like ‘The Corrections'—with a clarity of character, wildly spinning plot, and unique three-dimensional *realness* that, page by page, twist by twist, left pits in my stomach, lumps in my throat, and tears in my eyes.     The book single-handedly elevated what I thought books could do.     I read ‘Freedom' (2010), ‘Purity' (2014), and Crossroads (2021) the same way—equal parts admiration, fascination, and with a psychologically-transporting feeling of living outside of myself.     Jonathan Franzen is one of the most successful, accomplished, and decorated writers in the world. He is a Fulbright Scholar, National Book Award Winner, Pulitzer Prize Finalist, PEN/Faulkner Finalist, 2x Oprah's Book Club Pick, voted to TIME's ‘100 Most Influential' list as well as gracing their cover as "Great American Novelist," and much, much more.     The NYT calls his books "masterpieces of American fiction," NYMag calls his books "works of total genius," and Chuck Klosterman writing in GQ says "Franzen is the most important fiction writer in America, and—if viewed from a distance—perhaps the only important one.”     Tall praise! But there is just nothing like a Jonathan Franzen novel and it was sheer delight going deep with the master of the deep to discuss writing advice, the magic of the written word, what heroes look like today, competing with David Foster Wallace, the best thing we can do for the climate, Jon's 3 most formative books, and much, much more…     Let's turn the page to Chapter 137 now…

In this episode, Matt interviews Don Hough. Don is the author of a collection of short stories titled The Funeral Girl, a collection of essays called The Exact Right Word, and a new correspondence collection called All the Best. They discuss how The Funeral Girl is influenced by David Foster Wallace's work, how Don discovered DFW, James Cameron's Titanic, Labute's In the Company of Men, Alexander Theroux, Jonathan Franzen, Taylor Swift, and much much more.   You can follow Don on Twitter here: https://twitter.com/DHSayer His blog is here: http://donhoughauthor.blogspot.com   And be sure to order his books: The Funeral Girl: https://www.amazon.com/Funeral-Girl-Don-Hough/dp/1541008553 All The Best: https://www.amazon.com/All-Best-Correspondence-Don-Hough/dp/B0D251Q6NK Contact Dave & Matt:  Email - concavityshow@gmail.com Twitter - https://twitter.com/ConcavityShow Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/concavityshow/ Patreon - https://www.patreon.com/concavityshow Threadless Merch Store - https://concavityshow.threadless.com/  

In this bonus episode, MSNBC's Ari Melber sits down with Novelist Jonathan Franzen at the 2024 Rancho Mirage Writers Festival.

About the HostsDavid Tipling is one of the World's most widely published wildlife photographers renowned for his artistic images of birds. His many accolades include a coveted European Nature Photographer of the Year Award (2002) for work on Emperor Penguins, and in North America, Nature's Best Indigenous Peoples Award (2009) for his pictures of Mongolian eagle hunters.He is the author or commissioned photographer for many books including the RSPB Guide to Digital Wildlife Photography (Bloomsbury) and Penguins –Close Encounters (New Holland). In 2013 after 6 years work visiting 39 countries on all seven continents the critically acclaimed Birds & People (Random House) was published. Recently published books include Seabirds of the World, A Parliament of Owls and an instant best seller with Princeton University Press, Britain's Birds. His book A Bird Photographer's Diary charts his 30 year career in pictures.In 2018 David's combined book sales topped 300,000 copies Worldwide. David writes regularly for various magazines including Amateur Photographer. TV and film work have seen appearances in front of the camera on Springwatch and The One Show, while David has worked behind the cameramaking short films and with author Jonathan Franzen on the documentary Emptying the Skies.David's pictures hang in various collections around the World and have been exhibited in New York's Times Square, the Nikon Gallery in Japan and recently the Mall Galleries in London. For 16 years David was a judge for the British Birds Bird Photographer of the Year and was a judge for Bird Photographer of the Year (BPOTY) for 6 years. He currently judges Wild Art Photographer of the Year (WPOTY).In January 2022 David was named an OM SYSTEM Ambassador the scheme honours the talents of photographers creating exceptional imagery with OM SYSTEM equipment.To find out more visit David's website - http://davidtipling.com/David's Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/david.tipling/Rob Read has spent many years as a photography competition organiser; firstly as a founding director of, and primary organiser for Bird Photographer of the Year for the first five years of the competition, and more recently as founder, owner, and organiser of WildArt Photographer of the Year. Josh Galicki has been entering competitions for many years and has had significant success in many, including Bird Photographer of the Year. He is now part of the judging team for WildArt Photographer of the Year.Find out more about your host's and view their work on their Instagram profiles:Rob - https://www.instagram.com/robreadphotos/Josh - https://www.instagram.com/galicki_photography/The WildArt Photographer of the Year competition website can be found here - https://www.wildartpoty.com/

This is a free preview of a paid episode. To hear more, visit smokeempodcast.substack.comThis is a hot one! Nancy and Sarah fundamentally disagree about Emily Gould's viral essay on the lure of divorce. Nancy compares the story to the rot in France before the formation of the Vichy regime. Sarah believes personal essays like this help people feel less alone. Can she change Nancy's mind, as Walter Kirn did on the most recent episode? (Fast-track to 33:08 for that

In the last episode we talked about major dialogue techniques.  Here are smaller ones--but still important techniques--that'll make our dialogue shine.  And: how does the best-selling novelist Jonathan Franzen work?  We'll find out.Support the show

On this week's all-new episode, Gwen tackles author and bird enthusiast Jonathan Franzen's latest broadside alleging that no-kill shelters are actually evil. Later in the episode, Gwen answers a reader question about her upcoming new books in 2024. Check it out MEOW! Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Another year gone, another year awaits...The team here at Overlapping Dialogue decided to ring in 2024 with an affectionate look back at the highs, lows, and above all else memorable moments of 2023 with our inaugural Harry Dean Awards! Listen as we discuss the many noteworthy performances of Oppenheimer, highlight our favorite aspects of Barbie, decide on the year's best use of Tilda Swinton, christen our Comeback Player of the Year, and dive into a great many more categories and distinctions, culminating in our recognizing of the Filmmaker and Film of the Year. The Academy "Awards" only grow all the more irrelevant with the arrival of the only film awards you'll ever have to pay attention to from here on out! As always, please like, subscribe, rate, and review us on all of our channels, which include Apple Podcasts, Spotify, and YouTube! Contact us at huffmanbrothersproductions@gmail.com with your questions, comments, and requests.

In this episode of The A to Z English Podcast, Jack and Xochitl play a fun word game!Transcript:00:00:00JackYou're listening to the A-Z English podcast.00:00:14JackWelcome to the A-Z English podcast. My name is Jack and I'm here with my co-host social and today social and I are going to play a little game here. I'm going to give social a topic and we are going to discuss that topic. But there is.00:00:30JackA keyword and I will let you know what the keyword is right now.00:00:38JackThe keyword is nature.00:00:42JackBut social does not know what the keyword is, and every time she says the keyword a little bell will sound and that will be one.00:00:57JackPoint against her. OK. And then when it's my turn, we will discuss a different topic. And if I say the keyword.00:01:07JackMore times than she does. Then she is the winner. So what are the benefits of outdoor activities?00:01:18XochitlI think the.00:01:20XochitlBenefits of outdoor activities would be improved mood.00:01:26XochitlA clear mind.00:01:29XochitlAnd better health.00:01:32JackOK.00:01:33XochitlHow about you Jack overhead?00:01:33JackAnd yeah, like what about what about like getting outside, you know, experiencing the, you know, the trees and the the looking at the sky and the clouds and things like that, is that is that attractive to you at all?00:01:52XochitlYeah, I would think.00:01:54XochitlSeeing the trees and the clouds and the general scenery is definitely.00:02:01XochitlUnattractive part.00:02:03XochitlOf of the benefits of outdoor exercise.00:02:07JackYeah, yeah. Are you? Do you like camping?00:02:11XochitlUM, yeah, I do like camping. My dad used to.00:02:15XochitlDrag us out.00:02:16XochitlCamping. When I was a kid, which made me not.00:02:18XochitlLike it?00:02:21XochitlBut as I've gotten.00:02:22XochitlOlder I really. I really enjoy it.00:02:26XochitlI think just being able to be in that environment you know is really enriching.00:02:33JackYeah, yeah. I mean, I'm not a big like nature lover. Personally. I kind of like the, the, the comforts of the city and things like that. But I mean, what about you, can you go both ways?00:02:47JackYou. You're OK with either or.00:02:51XochitlIt's hard because for me, I do like certain city comforts. One big thing for me is I like having access to the shower, and I also like having access to a real toilet. And so the problem about being in an outdoor environment is that.00:03:10JackWhen nature calls.00:03:10XochitlYou don't.00:03:12XochitlYeah, you you have to use what's available to.00:03:16XochitlYou, which sometimes is not the most comfortable, and that's one big thing I don't like about it.00:03:24JackOne of my dreams is to like live what we call they called be a digital nomad so I can live in a van with my wife and we can, you know, sleep in the van. But the one issue that I think is the most difficult to reconcile is the toilet issues, you know.00:03:44JackIt's just like, how do what do you do like there? I I don't think I I need the comforts of like a house, living an apartment. Living. I agree with you.00:03:56JackAll right. Now that concludes the conversation. Again, I I'm not going to tell you if who the winner is until the end of the episode and social your topic is. Let's see here the benefits of reading.00:04:16JackSo you can ask me that question.00:04:19XochitlJack, what do you think the benefits?00:04:20XochitlOf reading are.00:04:23JackThe keyword is novel.00:04:27JackOK, the benefits of reading?00:04:30JackAre are various. It will improve your.00:04:37JackUh. Vocabulary. So you'll you'll be able to, uh, memorize more, learn more words and just become more proficient in whatever language you're reading in.00:04:53JackHe makes you more informed about the world, so it just, I think reading makes people smarter. I mean, I I know it's an unpopular thing to say these days, but I do think that people that read more are just and for and what it doesn't mean like.00:05:11JackThey're more intelligent. It just means they're kind of they're more informed, which I think does translate to like being smarter, you know, so they know more things because they read so.00:05:24JackI don't know what do you.00:05:25JackThink, do you agree with that?00:05:27XochitlYeah, I definitely.00:05:29XochitlAgree with that.00:05:30XochitlJack, what would you say one of your?00:05:35XochitlFavorite books is.00:05:37XochitlAnd when did you read that book?00:05:40JackYes, one of my favorite books is you.00:05:43JackI really love.00:05:46JackI really love books from like the early 20th century, so like Ernest Hemingway.00:05:58JackAnd I've F Scott Fitzgerald. That era is like my favorite for for novels. And there a farewell to arms is a book written by I just said his name. And now.00:06:17JackOK.00:06:19JackErnest Hemingway, thank.00:06:20JackYeah. A farewell to arms is is a story of a soldier. That.00:06:27JackIs fighting in World War One and.00:06:31JackYeah, it's a really.00:06:32JackIt's just a wonderful war and war story and so and love story as well and and a tragedy.00:06:41JackAnd I remember reading that book, and when I used to read a lot of novels in my early 20.00:06:47JackAnd now I only read nonfiction.00:06:51JackI know I don't.00:06:52JackRead novels anymore. I can't. I think the last novel I read was probably 13 or 14 years ago, and it was a Jonathan Franzen novel. But yeah. So yeah, that's my favorite era is the the the kind of, I think they call them the lost.00:07:11JackGeneration or something, is it? Or the?00:07:12JackYeah, yeah, the the 1920s.00:07:15XochitlThe silent generation.00:07:17JackYeah, 1920s, the the the Paris, you know, Picasso, Hemingway, that, that whole era. Yeah.00:07:26JackI love it.00:07:28JackSeems very romantic that period.00:07:30XochitlYeah. And what? What book form would you would you say that you enjoy the most, would you say?00:07:39XochitlThat you're like a.00:07:42XochitlYou know, uh, do you like a short novella? Do you like a short story? Do you like a longer novel?00:07:50XochitlYou know.00:07:50JackYeah. So I'm not really into, I don't. I don't read a lot of novellas. When I was reading the opposite of nonfiction.00:08:04JackI don't know.00:08:05JackI wonder. I'm trying not to say the keyword here. The opposite of nonfiction.00:08:13JackThen I I tend to read longer books. You know, they're like.00:08:20Jack304 hundred pages. You know, something like that. But I did.00:08:25JackRead war and.00:08:25JackPeace in high school and that's got like 500 pages and that it's a little too much for me. It's too. It's too big. So I I enjoy a kind of, you know, the regular size model.00:08:40JackI don't know. Does that make sense?00:08:42XochitlYeah, that does make.00:08:43XochitlSense. OK, I think that pretty much concludes the conversation.00:08:43JackOK, OK.00:08:51JackSo here are the results of today's game. Social was clearly the winner today, she said. The keyword nature a total of 0 times during the conversation. Jack, on the other hand.00:09:11JackSaid the keyword novel.00:09:14JackExactly 6 times during the conversation, which gives him -6 points, and so social is today's champion and Jack is today's loser. But if you like this episode, we will try this again.00:09:33JackAnother time.00:09:37XochitlAll right, listeners, let us know if you enjoyed this segment and if you would like to play with us in the future. I'm sure that that would be a blast to arrange. Leave a comment down below at AZ englishpodcast.com, shoot us an e-mail at AZ englishpodcast@gmail.com and join the conversation.00:09:57XochitlAnd our WhatsApp and we chat groups and we will see you guys next.00:09:59XochitlTime. Bye bye.Podcast Website:https://atozenglishpodcast.com/the-a-to-z-english-podcast-jack-and-xochitl-play-a-game/Social Media:WeChat: atozenglishpodcastFacebook Group: https://www.facebook.com/groups/671098974684413/Tik Tok:@atozenglish1Instagram:@atozenglish22Twitter:@atozenglish22A to Z Facebook Page:https://www.facebook.com/theatozenglishpodcastCheck out our You Tube Channel:https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCds7JR-5dbarBfas4Ve4h8ADonate to the show: https://app.redcircle.com/shows/9472af5c-8580-45e1-b0dd-ff211db08a90/donationsRobin and Jack started a new You Tube channel called English Word Master. You can check it out here:https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC2aXaXaMY4P2VhVaEre5w7ABecome a member of Podchaser and leave a positive review!https://www.podchaser.com/podcasts/the-a-to-z-english-podcast-4779670Join our Whatsapp group: https://forms.gle/zKCS8y1t9jwv2KTn7Intro/Outro Music: Daybird by Broke for Freehttps://freemusicarchive.org/music/Broke_For_Free/Directionless_EP/Broke_For_Free_-_Directionless_EP_-_03_Day_Bird/https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/3.0/legalcodeSupport this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/the-a-to-z-english-podcast/donationsAdvertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brandsPrivacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy

In Episodes 6 and 7: Ratner's Star (1) and (2), DDSWTNP go spelunking and digging in the myriad caves, holes, and burrows of DeLillo's mind-bending, encyclopedic novel of “serious play,” his exploration of outer space, the sedimented history of Earth, and so much in between. Mathematical, scientific, and theological insights and uncertainties mingle on every page as DeLillo follows Bronx native Billy Twillig, numbers prodigy and pubescent teenager, in his encounters with message-decoders, nonsense-speakers, and slapstick philosophers, human aliens of every stripe. Amidst much laughter and awe at passages inane, profound, and often simultaneously both, Ratner's Star emerges in our analysis as a neglected early metafictional masterpiece, a book that set the stage for more famous mega-narratives of hidden connections like Libra and Underworld. #pantsonfire #boomerang #manmoreadvancedthedeeperwedig #batguanomarket #k.b.i.s.f.b. #mymouthsayshello We also announce the extended deadline for recording your favorite DeLillo passages and having your voice be part of an upcoming DDSWTNP episode! By January 15, 2024, record a contribution at https://www.speakpipe.com/delillopodcast. Happy new year to all! Texts used in the making of these episodes: David Cowart, Don DeLillo: The Physics of Language. U. of Georgia P., 2003 Tom LeClair, In the Loop: Don DeLillo and the Systems Novel. U. of Illinois P., 1988. Mark Osteen, American Magic and Dread: Don DeLillo's Dialogue with Culture. U. of Pennsylvania P., 2000. David L. Pike, Cold War Space and Culture in the 1960s and 1980s: The Bunkered Decades. Oxford UP, 2022. Michael Streit, “Tertium Datur: Making Contact in Don DeLillo's Ratner's Star.” MA Thesis, U. of British Columbia, 2018. https://open.library.ubc.ca/soa/cIRcle/collections/ubctheses/24/items/1.0366140 “Writing is a form of personal freedom.It frees the mass identity we see in the making all around us . . . If serious reading dwindles to near nothingness, it will probably mean that the thing we're talking about when we use the word ‘identity' has reached an end.” –Don DeLillo, Letter to Jonathan Franzen, 1994, cited in Franzen's “Why Bother?” in How To Be Alone: Essays (FSG, 2002)

In Episodes 6 and 7: Ratner's Star (1) and (2), DDSWTNP go spelunking and digging in the myriad caves, holes, and burrows of DeLillo's mind-bending, encyclopedic novel of “serious play,” his exploration of outer space, the sedimented history of Earth, and so much in between. Mathematical, scientific, and theological insights and uncertainties mingle on every page as DeLillo follows Bronx native Billy Twillig, numbers prodigy and pubescent teenager, in his encounters with message-decoders, nonsense-speakers, and slapstick philosophers, human aliens of every stripe. Amidst much laughter and awe at passages inane, profound, and often simultaneously both, Ratner's Star emerges in our analysis as a neglected early metafictional masterpiece, a book that set the stage for more famous mega-narratives of hidden connections like Libra and Underworld. #pantsonfire #boomerang #manmoreadvancedthedeeperwedig #batguanomarket #k.b.i.s.f.b. #mymouthsayshello We also announce the extended deadline for recording your favorite DeLillo passages and having your voice be part of an upcoming DDSWTNP episode! By January 15, 2024, record a contribution at https://www.speakpipe.com/delillopodcast. Happy new year to all! Texts used in the making of these episodes: David Cowart, Don DeLillo: The Physics of Language. U. of Georgia P., 2003 Tom LeClair, In the Loop: Don DeLillo and the Systems Novel. U. of Illinois P., 1988. Mark Osteen, American Magic and Dread: Don DeLillo's Dialogue with Culture. U. of Pennsylvania P., 2000. David L. Pike, Cold War Space and Culture in the 1960s and 1980s: The Bunkered Decades. Oxford UP, 2022. Michael Streit, “Tertium Datur: Making Contact in Don DeLillo's Ratner's Star.” MA Thesis, U. of British Columbia, 2018. https://open.library.ubc.ca/soa/cIRcle/collections/ubctheses/24/items/1.0366140 “Writing is a form of personal freedom.It frees the mass identity we see in the making all around us . . . If serious reading dwindles to near nothingness, it will probably mean that the thing we're talking about when we use the word ‘identity' has reached an end.” –Don DeLillo, Letter to Jonathan Franzen, 1994, cited in Franzen's “Why Bother?” in How To Be Alone: Essays (FSG, 2002)

A quote I love from writer Jonathan Franzen is at the heartbeat of today's episode. He says: “When you stay in your room in rage or sneer or shrug your shoulders as I did for many years. The world and its problems are impossibly daunting. But when you go out and put yourself in real relation to real people, or even just real animals, there's a very real danger that you might end up loving some of them and who knows what might happen to you then.”The world can sometimes feel overwhelming or daunting and we might need to occasionally draw back a bit to allow ourselves time away to recharge and reset. The key here though is that we don't stay shut away forever. Finding, creating and or being a part of a community of people, animals and experiences equally, is important for us to thrive.Today on The Karen Kenney Show, we're talking about suffering and connection, ‌and putting ourselves in real relation to real people and real animals… not just the ones in our minds and behind our screens. There is a magic that can bloom when we allow ourselves to be open and vulnerable and to go out into the world and connect, to share our lives, and maybe even fall in love with some other humans and animals. So this is my personal invitation and encouragement for you / me to get off of our devices and to come out of “our rooms”, and to be open to loving the people, loving the animals, loving the earth and also importantly - loving yourself inside and out! Take a chance and watch what might just happen when you do it!KK's Takeaways:• The Power Of Connection + Introspection (01:02)• Connection + Loneliness (5:05)• Service + Empathy (10:51)• Connection + Personal Growth (16:41)• Using Suffering As Motivation To Help Others (21:00)Karen Kenney is a certified Spiritual Mentor, Hypnotist, Writer, Integrative Change Worker and Life Coach. She's known for her dynamic storytelling, her sense of humor, her Boston accent and her no-bullshit approach to Spirituality and transformational work. She's been a yoga teacher for 22+ years, is a Certified Gateless Writing Instructor, and is also an author, speaker, retreat leader and the host of The Karen Kenney Show podcast. A curious human being, life-long learner and an entrepreneur for 20+ years, KK brings a down-to-earth perspective to applying spiritual principles, hypnosis and brain science that can create powerful shifts in your life and business. She works with people individually in her 1:1 program THE QUEST, and offers a collective learning experience via Group Coaching. She supports both the conscious and unconscious mind by combining practical Neuroscience, Subconscious Reprogramming, Integrative Hypnosis, and Spiritual Mentorship. These tools help clients regulate their nervous systems, remove blocks, rewrite stories, rewire beliefs, and reimagine what's possible!Karen wants her clients to have their own lived experience with spirituality and to not just “take her word for it”. She encourages people to deepen their personal connection to Self, Source and Spirit in tangible, relatable, and actionable ways without losing sight of the magic.Her process called: “Your Story To Your Glory” helps people to shift from an old thought system of fear to one of Love - using compassion, un-shaming, laughter and humor, her work is effective, efficient, and it's also wicked fun!KK's been a student of A Course in Miracles for close to 30 years, has been vegan for over 20 years, and believes that a little kindness can go a long way and make a miraculous difference.

Join co-hosts Annie Liontas and Lito Velázquez in conversation with LitFriends Lucy Corin & Deb Olin Unferth about their travels in the Sahara, ancient chickens, disappointments, true love, and why great books are so necessary. Our next episode will feature Melissa Febos & Donika Kelly, out December 22, 2023.   Links Libsyn Blog www.annieliontas.com www.litovelazquez.com https://www.lucycorin.com https://debolinunferth.com LitFriends LinkTree LitFriends Insta LitFriends Facebook   Transcript Annie Lito (00:00.118) Welcome to Lit Friends! Hey Lit Friends!   Lito: Welcome to the show.    Annie: Today we're speaking with Lucy Corin and Deb Olin Unferth, great writers, thinkers, and LitFriend besties.    Lito:  About chickens, the Sahara, and bad reviews.    Annie: So grab your bestie   Annie & Lito: And get ready to get lit!   Lito: You know those like stones that you can get when you're on like a trip to like Tennessee somewhere or something, they're like worry stones? Like people used to like worry them with their thumb or something whenever they had a problem and it would like supposedly calm you down. Well, it's not quite the same thing, but I love how Deb describes her and Lucy's relationship is like, “worry a problem with me.” Like let's, let's cut this gem from all the angles and really like rub it down to its essential context and meaning and understanding. And I think essentially that's what like writers, great writers, offer the world. They've worked through a problem and they have answers. There's not one answer, there's not a resolution to it, but the answers that lead to better, more better questions.    Annie: Yeah, and there's something so special about them because they're, worry tends to be something we do in isolation, almost kind of worrying ourselves into the ground.   Lito: Right. Annie: But they're doing it together in collaboration.    Lito: It's a collaborative worry. Yes, I love that.    Annie: A less lonely worrying.    Lito: It's a less lonely place to think through these things. And the intimacy between them is so special. The way I think they just weave in and out of their lives with each other, even though they're far away from each other.   I think there's a romantic notion that you're tuned into about Lucy and Deb's trip to the desert. Do you want to say something about that? There's a metaphor in it that you really love, right?    Annie: (1:52) Yeah. Well, so I remember when we first talked about doing this podcast and invited them, we were at a bar at AWP, the writer's conference. And they were like, oh, this is perfect. We just went to the Sahara together. And I was like, what? You writers just decided to take a trip together through the desert? And they said, yeah, it was perfect. And they have adorable photos, which we of course are going to share with the world. Um, but it felt like such a, I mean, the fact that they would go on that kind of adventure together and didn't really plan ahead, I think it was just Deb saying, I really want to go to the desert. And Lucy saying, sure, let's go. Which feels very much a kind of metonym of their friendship in some ways.    Lito: Absolutely.    Annie: (2:42) Yeah. That they wandered these spaces together. They come back to art, right? Art is a way for them to recreate themselves and recreate their friendship. And they're doing such different things on the page.    Lito:  Oh yeah, no, they're very different writers but they do share a curiosity that's unique I think in their friendship, then unique to them.    Annie: Yeah and a kind of rigorousness and a love for the word.    Lito: (3:10) Oh and a love for thinking and reading the world in every capacity.    Annie: Tell me about your friendship with Lucy because you're quite close.   Lito: I was at UC Davis before it was an MFA program. It was just a Master's. After undergrad, I went to the master's program because I wasn't sure if I wanted to be an academic or do the studio option and get an MFA. I loved how Lucy and the other professors there, Pam Houston, Yiyun Li, showed us the different ways to be a writer. They couldn't be more different, the three of them. And, I particularly was drawn to Lucy because of her sense of art and play and how those things interact.    Lito: (03:59) And here was someone that was extremely cerebral, extremely intelligent, thinking through every aspect of existence. And yet it was all done through the idea of play and experimentation, but not experimentation in that sort of like negative way that we think of experimentation, which is to say writing that doesn't work, but experimentation in the sense of innovation. And. Lucy brought out my sense of play. I got it right away, what she was going for, that there is an intellectual pleasure to the work of reading and writing that people in the world respond to, but don't often articulate. Lucy's able to articulate it, and I admire her forever for that.    Lito: (4:52) And perhaps I'm not speaking about our friendship, but it comes from a place of deep admiration for the work that she does and the way she approaches life. You have a special relationship with Deb. I would love to hear more about that.    Annie: (5:04) Yeah, I think I've been fangirling over Deb for years. Deb is such a special person. I mean, she's incredibly innovative and has this agility on the page, like almost no other writer I know. Also quite playful, but I love most her humanity. Deb is a vegan who, in Barn 8, brings such life to chickens in a way that we as humans rarely consider. There's an amazing scene which she's like with a chicken 2000 years into the future. Also, I know Deb through my work with Pen City, her writing workshop with incarcerated writers at the Connally Unit, a maximum security penitentiary in Southern Texas.   Lito: How does that work? Is it all by letter or do you go there?    Annie: (5:58) Well, the primary program, you know, the workshop that Deb teaches is on site, and it's certified. So students are getting, the incarcerated writers, are getting now college credit because it's an accredited program. So Deb will be on site and work with them directly. And those of us who volunteer as mentors, the program has evolved a little bit since then, (06:22) but it's kind of a pen pal situation. So I had a chance to work with a number of writers, some who had been there for years and years. And a lot of folks are writing auto-fiction or fiction that's deeply inspired by the places they've lived and their experiences. It's such a special program, it's such a special experience. And what I saw from Deb was just this absolute fierceness. You know, like Deb can appear to be fragile in some ways (06:53.216), and it's her humanity, but actually there's this solid steel core to Deb, and it's about fortitude and a kind of moral alignment that says, we need to do better.    Lito: We have this weird connotation with the word fragile that it's somehow bad, but actually, what it means is that someone's vulnerable. And to me, there is no greater superpower than vulnerability, especially with art, and especially in artwork that is like what she does at the penitentiary. But, can I ask a question?    Annie:  Sure.   Lito: Why is it so special working with incarcerated folks?    Annie: (7:27) Oh, that's a great question. I mean, we need its own podcast to answer it.   Lito: Of course, but just sort of the...    Annie:  I think my personal experience with it is that so many incarcerated writers have been disenfranchised on all levels of identity and experience. Voting rights, decent food, accommodations, mental health, physical, you know, physical well-being. And we can't solve all those problems necessarily, at least all at once, and it's an up, it's a constant battle. But nothing to me offers or recognizes a person's humanity like saying, "tell us your story. Tell us what's on your mind. We are here to hear you and listen."  And those stories and they do come out, you know, there have been other programs that have done this kind of work, they get out in the world and there's, we're bridging this gap of people we have almost entirely forgotten out of absolute choice.  (8:27) And Deb is doing that work, really, I mean she's been doing that work for a long time and finally got some recognition for it, but Deb does it because she's committed.   Lito: That is really powerful. Tell us your story. Tell us your story, Lit Fam. Tell us your story. Find us in all your social media @LitFriendsPodcast or email us at LitFriendsPodcast@gmail.com   Annie: We will read all your stories. We'll be right back with Lucy and   Deb.   Lito: (09:00) And now, our interview with Lucy Corrin and Deb. Lucy Corin is the author of two short story collections, 100 Apocalypses and Other Apocalypses and The Entire Predicament, and two novels, Everyday Psychokillers and The Swank Hotel. In addition to winning the Rome Prize, Lucy was awarded a fellowship in literature from the NEA. She is a 2023 Guggenheim Fellow and a professor of English in the MFA program at UC Davis.    Annie:  Deb Olin-Unferth is the author of six books, including Barn 8, and her memoir, Revolution: The Year I Fell in Love and Went to Join the War, which was a finalist for the National Book Critics Circle Award. Deb is an associate professor in creative writing at the University of Texas at Austin. She founded and runs Pen City Writers, a two-year creative writing certificate program at Connally, a maximum security prison in southern Texas. For this work, she was awarded the 2017 Texas Governor's Criminal Justice Service Award.   Lito: (09:58) Annie and I thought this up a year ago, and we were talking about what is special about literary friendships and how writing gets made, not as we all think, totally solitary in our rooms alone, but we have conversations, at least I think this way. They're part of long conversations with our friends, our literary friends and living and dead, and you know, all times, in all times of history.   But the idea here is that we get to talk to our literary friends and people we admire and writers who are close friends with each other and friendships in which literature plays a large role.   Annie: (10:37) Yeah, and I'll just add that when we first floated the idea of this podcast, you know, your names came up immediately. We're so in awe of you as people and practitioners and literary citizens, and we love your literary friendship. I mean, I really hold it dear as one of the best that I know of personally.    Lucy, I think of you as, you know, this craftsperson of invention who's always trying to undo what's been done and who's such an amazing mentor to emerging writers. And Deb, you know, I'm always returning to your work to see the world in a new way, to see something I might have missed. And I just, I'm so moved by your generosity in your work and in your life's work with Penn City and elsewhere, which I'm sure we'll have a chance to talk more about.   Annie: (11:30) But I think I recall the first day I realized how close the two of you were when Deb told me that you all were taking a trip to the Sahara. And I was like, oh, of course, like, of course, they're going to have desert adventures together. Like, this makes so much sense. So I hope we'll, you know, we'll talk more about that too.    Annie (11:53) But we're so grateful to have you here and to have you in our lives. And we're going to ask you some questions to get to know a little bit more about you.    Deb:  Sounds great.    Lucy: Thanks.    Deb: It's great to be here. It's really great to see everybody.    Lito: Thank you so much for being here. Deb, will you tell us about Lucy?   Deb: (12:16) I mean, Lucy's just one of my very favorite people. And I feel like our friendship just started really slowly and just kind of grew over a period of many years. And some of the things that I love about Lucy is she is, well, of course, she's a brilliant genius writer. Like, I mean, no one writes weird like Lucy writes weird and no one writes like more emotionally, and more inventively and some of her books are some of my favorite books that have ever been written. Especially her last two books I think have just been such just major literary accomplishments and I just hold them so dear.    (13:05) And as a friend some things that I really love about her is that she will worry a problem with me that's just bugging me about like literary culture or about writing or about, you know, just it could be anything about aesthetics at all. And then she'll literally talk to me about it for like five or six days straight without stopping. Like we'll just constantly, dinner after dinner, like, you know, if we're on a trip together, just like all day, like I'll wake up in the morning and I'll be like, here's another piece of that pie. And then she'll say, oh, and I was thinking, and then we'll like go off and work and then we'll come back at lunch and be like, "and furthermore," you know? And by the end, I remember at one point we were doing this and she said, this is a very interesting essay you're writing. And of course, like it wasn't an essay at all, but it was just like a way of thinking about the way that we were talking.   (14:06) And then she is hilarious and delightful and just like so warm. I don't know, I just love her to pieces. She's just one of my favorite people in the whole world. I could say more, but I'll stop right there for a minute.    Annie: Lucy, tell us about Deb.    Lucy: (14:24) Yeah, I mean, Deb, I mean, the first thing, I mean, the first thing you'll notice is that Deb is sort of effortlessly enthusiastic about the things that she cares about. And that's at the core of the way that she moves through the world and the way that she encounters people and the way that she encounters books.   (14:44) I'm more reserved, so I'll just preface what I'm going to say by saying that like, my tone might not betray my true enthusiasms, but I'll try to list some of the things that I think are special and extraordinary about my friend Deb.   One is that there's this conversation that never stops between the way that she's thinking about her own work and the way that she's thinking about the state of the world and the way that she's thinking about the very specific encounters that she's having in daily life. And so like moving through a conversation with Deb or moving through a period of time with Deb in the world, those things are always in flux and in conversation. So it's a really wonderful mind space to be in, to be in her presence.   (15:35) The other thing is that she's like the most truly ethical person that I am close to and in the sense that like she thinks really hard about every move she makes.   The comparison I would make is like you know Deb is like at the core like, the first thing you might notice about Deb's work is that she's a stylist, that she works sentence by sentence and that she always does. But then the other thing she does is that she's always thinking hard about the world and the work, that it never stays purely a love of the sentence. The love of the sentence is part of the love of trying to understand the relationship between words and the world.    (16:15) And, and they're both an ethics. I think it's an ethics of aesthetics and an ethics of trying to be alive in as decent way as you can manage. And so those things feed into the friendship where she's one of the people who I know will tell me what she really thinks about something because we can have a baseline of trust where then you can talk about things that are either dangerous or you might have different ideas about things or you may have conflict.    (16:47) But because of my sense of who she is as a person, and also who she is with me, we can have challenging conversations about what's right about how to behave and what's right about how to write. And that also means that when the other parts of friendship, which are just like outside of literature, but always connected, which, you know, about your own, you know, your other friendships, your, the rest of your life, your job, your family, things like that, that you wanna talk about with your friends. Yeah, I don't know anybody better to sort through those things than Deb.    And it's in part because we're writers, and you can't separate out the questions that you're having about the other parts of your life from who you're trying to be as a writer. And that's always built into the conversation.   Annie: (17:40) I knew we asked you here for a reason.   Lito: We'll be right back.    Lito (17:58) Back to the show.    Annie: I'm hearing you, you know, you're both, you're sort of really seeing one another, which is really lovely. You know, you're, Deb, you're talking about Lucy wearing a problem with you, which I think conveys a kind of strength and... Of course, like I'm quite familiar with Deb's like strong moral anchors. I think we all are and truly respect, but I'm just wondering, what do you most admire about your friend? What do you think they give to the world in light of this portrait that you've given us?   Deb: (18:28) Lucy is a very careful thinker, and she's incredibly fair. And I've just seen her act, just behave that way and write that way for so many years and it just the quality of it always surprises me.  Like I mean, there was a writer, most recently there was a writer who's been cancelled, who we have spent an enormous amount of time talking about and trying to figure out just exactly what was going on there. And I felt like Lucy had insights into what had happened and what it was like on his end and what about his culture could have influenced what happened. Just all of these things that were.   (19:36.202) It was so insightful and I felt like there's no way that I could have moved that moved forward that many steps in my understanding of what had happened. And in my own like how I was going to approach what had happened. Like there's no way I could have done that without that just constant just really careful thought and really fair thought. Just like trying to deeply understand. Like Lucy has an emotional intelligence that is just completely unparalleled. That's one thing I really love about her.    Another thing is that she's like up for anything. Like when I asked her to go to the Sahara with me, I mean, she said yes in like, it was like not even 12 seconds. It was like 3 seconds, I think, that she was like, yeah.   Annie: You need a friend who is just gonna go to the Sahara.    Lucy: Deb, I don't even know if you actually invited me. The way I remember it is that you said something like, Lucy, no one will go to the Sahara with me. And I said, I would go to the Sahara with you.   Lito: That is lovely.   Lucy: (20:53) It's in Africa, right?    Lito:  Was there something specific about the Sahara that you need to go over for?   Deb:  Yeah, I mean, there was. It's a book I'm still working on, hopefully finishing soon. But it's mostly it's like...I just always wanted to go to the Sahara. My whole life, I wanted to go to Morocco, I wanted to go to the Sahara, I wanted to be surrounded by just sand and one line. You look in 360 degrees and you just see one line. I just wanted to see what that was like so badly, stripping everything out, coming down to just that one element of blue and beige. I just wanted that so much. And I wanted to know that it just went on and on and on and on.   (21:48) Yeah, and you know, people talk a big talk, but most people would not go. And so at one point I was just kind of rallying, asking everyone. And then Lucy happened to be in town and I just mentioned to her that this is happening. And then she said, yeah, and then we went for like a long time. Like we went to Morocco for like over three weeks. Like we went for like a month.    Lucy:  A month.    Deb: Yeah, crazy. But she's always like that. Like whatever I want to do, she's just up for it. I mean, and she called me up and she's like, hey, we want to come to Austin and like, go to this place that's two hours from Austin where you can see five million bats, right? Five million bats? Or was it more? Was it like 20 million?    Lucy:  That's right.    Deb: It was like 20 million bats and a lot of them are baby bats. It's like mama bats and baby bats.     Lucy: Yeah, like it's more when there's the babies.   Deb: (22:46) And yeah, and you were like, I want to come with them as the babies. Yeah, we like went and she just like came and Andrea came, and it was just absolutely beautiful.    Lucy: Well, you were just right for that adventure. I knew you would want to see some bats.    Lucy: Well, I could I could say a couple of more things about what Deb gives the world.    Annie: Sure. Love it.    Lucy: So some of the things that Deb gives the world and though when I listen to you talking about me, I realized why these things are so important to me, is that you have a very steady sense of who you are and a kind of confidence in your instincts. That I know that some of the ways that I worry things through are really productive and some of them are just an ability to see why I could be wrong all the time, and that can stymie me.    (23:48) And one of the things that I love about you and the model that you provide for me in my life is an ability to understand what your truth is and not be afraid to hold onto it while you're thinking about other people's perspectives, that you're able to really tell the difference between the way that other people think about things and the way that you do.   And it doesn't mean that you don't rethink things, you constantly are, but when you have a conviction, you don't have a problem with having a conviction. And I admire it enormously. And I think it allows you to have a kind of openness to the world and an openness to people who are various and different and will challenge you and will show you new things because you have that sense that you're not gonna lose yourself in the wind.    Deb: Mmm. That's really nice.   Lito: I am in awe of everything you've said about each other. And it makes me think about how you first met each other. Can you tell us that story? And why did you keep coming back? What was the person like when you first met? And why did you keep coming back to each other? Do you want to tell Lucy?     Lucy: Yeah, I'll start and you can add what I'm missing and... (25:06) tell a different origin story if you want. But I think that what we might've come to for our origin story is that it was one of the, one of the early &Now Festivals. And the &Now Festival is really great.   Lito: Could you say what that is? Yeah, say a little bit about what that is.   Luch: Oh, it's a literary conference that was started to focus on small press and more innovative—is the term that they used at the time anyhow—innovative writing as a kind of response to the market-driven culture of AWP and to try to get people who are working more experimentally or more like on the edge of literary culture less mainstream and give them a place to come together and have conversations about writing and share their work.   So it was one of the early ones of those. But I think it was, I think we figured out that there were like, yeah, there were three women. It was me, you, and Shelley Jackson. But it was, there were not that many women at this conference at the time. And we were, and I think we were noting, noting our solidarity. Yeah. And that, that's what. That's like some of the first images.   But I knew we were like aware of each other because in some ways we have tended to be up for the same jobs—Deb gets them—up for the same prizes—Deb gets them first, I'll get them later. And so I see her as somebody who's traveling through the literary world in ways that are... I mean, we're very different writers, but as people... You know what I mean? But I still... We still actually...come from a lot of the same literary roots. And so it makes sense that there's something of each other in the work that makes us appeal to overlapping parts of the literary world.   Deb: Yeah, I definitely think that there was in our origins, not only do we come from the same sort of influences, and just things that we admired and stuff, but I also feel like (27:28.018) a lot of our early work would have appealed more easily to the exact same people. As we've gotten older, our work isn't quite as similar. We're a little more different than we used to be. But there's still enough there that, you know, you can see a lot of the same people admiring or liking it.   But I was remembering that first time that we met, you playing pool. And we were, so we were like at a bar and you were like, and you were playing pool, and you had like just had a book out with FSG, I think, or something. I don't know if I even had—   Lucy: FC2. Very different.   Deb: FC2. That's right. FC2. And the FC2 editor was there. And I don't think I even had a book out. I don't remember what year this was. But I don't think I had any kind of book out. All I had was I had nothing, you know. And I was just so in awe of FC2 and the editor there, and you there, and like you could play pool, and I can't play pool at all. And it was just, it was—   Annie: Lucy's so cool. Yeah, she was cool. She was cool. And Shelly Jackson was cool. And it was like all the cool people were there and I got to be there, and it was great.   And then, yeah, and then I think how it continued, I don't know how it continued, we just kind of kept running into each other and just slowly it built up into a really deep friendship. Like at some point you would come through town and stay with me.   (29:25.782) And we moved, we both moved around a lot. So for a while there, so we kind of kept running into each other in different places. We've never lived in the same place.   Lucy: No, never.   Lito: How have you managed that then? Is it always phone or is it texting, phone calls?   Lucy: Well, we'll go through a spate of  texting.   Deb: Yeah, we do both. I think I like to talk on the phone.   Lucy: Yeah, I will talk on the phone for Deb.   Annie: The mark of a true friendship.   Lito: (30:01) Time for a break.   Annie Lito (30:12.43) We're talking with Lucy Corin and Deb Olin Unferth.   Lito: How has literature shaped your friendship then? Despite being cool. What kind of books, movies, art do you love to discuss? You can name names. What do you love talking about?   Deb: Well, I remember the moment with Donald Barthelme.   Lucy: That was what I was gonna say.   Deb: No, you go ahead.   Lucy: Well, why don't?   Deb: Oh, okay, you can tell it.   Lucy: I mean, I'll tell part and then you can tell part. It's not that elaborate, but we were, one of the things that Deb and I do is find a pretty place, rent a space, and go work together. And one time we were doing that in Mendocino and Deb was in the late stages of drafting Barn 8 and really thinking about the ancient chickens and the chickens in an ancient space. And we went for a walk in one of those very ferny forests, and Deb was thinking about the chickens and among the giant ferns. And I don't know how it happened, but Deb said something with a rhythm. And we both said to each other the exact line from Donald Barthelme's "The School" that has that rhythm.   (31:34) Is that how you remember it though? You have to tell me if that's how you remember it.   Deb: That's exactly how I remember it. Yeah. And then we like said a few more lines. Like we knew even...    Lito: You remember the line now?   Lucy: I mean, I don't... You do. If you said it, I could do it. I'm just... I was thinking before this, I'm like, oh God, I should go look up the line because I'm not going to get it right, like under pressure. It was just in the moment. It came so naturally.   Deb: It was one of those lines that goes... (32:03) Da da da-da da, da da da-da-da. There's a little parenthetical, it's not really in parentheses in the story, but it might be a little dash mark. But it has, it's something like, "I told them that they should not be afraid, although I am often afraid." I think it was that one.   Deb: I am often afraid. Yeah. And then it was like, we just both remembered a whole bunch of lines like from the end, because the ending of that story is so amazing. And it's, so the fact that we had both unconsciously memorized it and could just like.   And it was something about just like walking under those giant trees and having this weekend together. And like we're like marching along, like calling out lines from Donald Barthelme. And it just felt really like pure and deep.   Annie: It's I mean, I can't imagine anything sounding more like true love than spontaneously reciting a line in unison from Barthelme. And, you know, you both are talking about how your work really converged at the start and that there are some new divergences and I think of you both as so distinct you know on and off the page. There's like the ferociousness of the pros and an eye towards cultural criticism and I always think of you as writing ahead of your time. So I'm just wondering how would you describe your lit friends work to someone, and is there something even after all this time that surprises you about their writing or their voice?   Lucy: I mean, what surprised me recently about Deb's voice is its elasticity. I came to love the work through the short stories and the micros. And those have such a distinct, wry kind of distance. They sort of float a little separate from the world, and they float a little separate from the page.   (34:10) And they have a kind of, they have a very distinct attitude and tone, even if the pieces are different from each other, like as a unit. And that's just really different than the voice that you get in a book like Barn 8 that moves through a lot of different narrators, but that also has just a softer relationship with the world. Like it's a little more blends with the world as you know, it doesn't stay as distant. And I didn't know that until later.   Vacation is also really stark and sort of like has that distinctiveness from the world. And so watching Deb move into, you know, in some ways like just more realistic, more realistic writing that's still voice-centered and that still is music centered was a recent surprising thing for me.   But I'm also really excited about what I've read in the book that in the new book because I think that new book is sort of the pieces that the bits that I've read from it are they're marking a territory that's sort of right down the middle of the aesthetic poles that Deb's work has already hit I mean the other thing is that you know Deb does all the genres. All of the prose genres. Every book sort of is taking on it is taking on a genre And the next one is doing that too, but with content in a way that others have been taking on new genres and form. And so...    Lito: I love that. And I like that it's related to the music of the pros and sound. I feel like musicians do that a lot, right? There's some musicians that every album is a new genre or totally different sound. And then there's artists who do the same thing over and over again. We love both those things. Sorry, so Deb...   Deb: So I love how complicated Lucy can get with just an image or an idea. I just feel like no one can do it the way that she can do it. And my like her last in her last book, which I love so much, we're just brought through all these different places and each one is sort of (36:31.29) dragging behind it, everything that came before, so that you can just feel all of this like, pressure of like the past and of the situations and like even like a word will resonate. Like you'll bring like, there's like a word on maybe page like 82 that you encountered on like page 20 that like the word meant so much on page 20 that it like really, you can really feel its power when it comes on page 80.   And you feel the constant like shifting of meaning and just like the way that the prose is bringing so much more and like it's like reinterpreting that word again and again and again, just like the deeper that you go, like whatever the word is be it you know house or home or stair or um you know sex, whatever it is, it's like constantly shifting. (37:40.952) And that's just part of like who Lucy is, is this like worrying of a problem or worrying of a word and like carrying it forward. And so yeah, so like in that last book, it just was such a big accomplishment. And I felt like it was like her best work yet.   Lucy: So I will say, try and say something a little bit more specific, then. (38:09) Like I guess in the sort of 10 stories that I teach as often as possible in part because I get bored so easily that I need to teach stories that I can return to that often and still feel like I'm reading something that is new to me is the title story from Wait Till You See Me Dance and that story is a really amazing combination of methodical in its execution, which sounds really dull.   But what it does is sort of toss one ball in the air and then toss another ball in the air and then toss another ball in the air. And then, you know, the balls move, but you know, the balls are brightly colored and they're handled by a master juggler. So it's methodical, but it's joyful and hilarious. And then, and then, and you don't   And the other thing is that Deb's narrators are wicked and like they're wicked in the way that like… They are, they're willing to do and say the things that you secretly wish somebody would do and say. That's the same way that like, you know, in the great existential novels, you love and also worry about the protagonists, right? They're troubled, but their trouble allows them to speak truthfully because they can't help it. Or they can't help it when they're in the space of the short story. It's that like, you know, the stories are able to access—a story like this one and like many of Deb's—are able to access that really special space of narrator, of narration, where you get to speak, you get to speak in a whisper.   Annie: You get to speak in a whisper. That's beautiful, Lucy. You get to speak in a whisper.   Lito: We'll be right back.   Lito: (40:15) Welcome back.   Annie: I'm wondering about what this means, you know, how this crosses over to your own personal lives, right? Because of course, literary friendships, we're thinking about the work all of the time. But we're also, you know, when I think of my literary friendship with Lito, I think of him as like a compatriot and somebody who's really carrying me through the world sometimes. I'm wondering if there was for either of you, a hard time that you went through personally, professionally, you know, whether it's about publishing or just getting words on the page or something, you know, um, you know, family related or whatever, where you, um, you know, what it meant to have a literary friend nearby at that time.   Lucy: I mean that's the heart of it.   Deb: Yeah, I mean for sure.   Lucy: One happened last week and I'm sort of still in the middle of it where you know my literary mentor is aging and struggling and so that's painful for me and who gets that? Deb gets that.   The other one, the other big one for me was that the release of my last novel was really complicated. And it brought up a lot of, it intersected with a lot of the things going on in my family that are challenging and a lot of things that are going on in the literary world that are challenging. There were parts of that release that were really satisfying and joyful, and there were parts of it that were just devastatingly painful for me.   And, you know, Deb really helped me find my way through that. And it was a lot, like it was a lot of emotional contact and a lot of thinking through things really hard and a lot of being like, "wait, why do we do this? But remember, why do we do this?" And Deb was the person who could say, "no, you're a novelist." Like things that like I was doubting, Deb could tell me. And the other thing is that I would come closer to being able to believe those things because she could tell them to me.   Annie: Lucy, can you talk a little more about that? Like what did that? (42:27.126) What did that look like, right? Like you talked about resistance to phone calls, and you're not in the same place.   Lucy: It was phone. Right, it would be phone or it would be Zoom or it would be texting. And then, you know, when we would see each other that would be, we would reflect on those times in person even though that wasn't those immediate moments of support and coaching and, you know, wisdom.   Annie:  And that requires a kind of vulnerability, I think, that is hard to do in this industry, right? And I'm just wondering if that was new for you or if that was special to this friendship, right? Or like what allowed for that kind of openness on your part to be able to connect with Deb in that way?   Lucy: I mean, I think I was just really lucky that we've had, like even though we have really, I think, only noticed that we were close since that Morocco trip. Like that was a little bit of a leap of faith. Like, "oh my gosh, how well do I know this person and we're gonna travel together in like circumstances, and do we really know each other this way?" But the combination of the years that we've known each other in more of a warm acquaintance, occasional, great conversation kind of way towards being somebody that you, that you trust and believe and that you have that stuff built in.   And, you know, that over the years you've seen the choices that they've made in the literary world, the choices they've made in their career, when they, you know, everything from, you know, supporting, you know, being a small, being small press identified and championing certain kinds of books over other kinds of books. And like those, just like watching a person make choices for art that you think are in line with the writer that, watching her make choices in art that are in line with the writer that I wanna be in the world makes it so that when you come to something that is frightening, that's the kind of person you wanna talk to because she's done that thinking.   Deb: Yeah, I mean, I feel like there are like so many things that I could say about that. Like one thing is that the kind of time that I spend with Lucy is really different from the kind of time that I spend with most people. Like most people, (44:51) they come to town and I have dinner with them. Or I go to like AWP or whatever and we go out for dinner. Or maybe I spend like one night at their house like with their partner and kid or something, you know. But Lucy and I, we get together and we spend like four days or something all alone, just the two of us, you know, or a month or whatever. And we don't spend a ton of time with other people. And so there's, but then we also do that, but just like not very much.   And so there is something that just creates, like that's a really good mode for me. It's a, that's like the way that I make really deep friendships that are kind of like forever-people in my life. And I've always been like that. And so, but not a lot of people are willing to sort of do that with me. Like, I have so many acquaintances, I've got like a million, I feel like I could have dinner with someone just about any night, as long as it's only like once every few months or something, you know, but I don't have people who are willing to be this close to me, like spend that kind of time with me one-on-one. And the fact is like, they're not that many people that I really feel like doing that with.   And you know, every time Lucy and I do one of these, I just come away feeling like I thought about some really important things and I talked about some really important things and I saw some beautiful things because Lucy always makes sure that we're somewhere where we can see a lot of beauty. And so that just means so much to me. And it's like, and so for me it creates like a space where, Yeah, I can be honest and vulnerable, and I can also tell her, if I can tell her things that I don't tell other people, or I can be really honest with her if I feel like, if I'm giving her advice about something, I can just be honest about it. And so it's really, really nice.   (47:07) I mean, the other thing is like, we're so similar. Like we've made so many similar life choices. And we've talked about that. Lucy and I have talked about that. Like, you know, we both chose not to have kids. We live pretty, like we're both like kind of loners, even though we have partners. Like I think our partners are more like, they just kind of would, they would prefer that we.   I don't know, I shouldn't probably say anything, but I know that Matt would prefer if I was not quite as much of a loner as I am. Yeah, so I look at Lucy and I see the kind of person that I am, the kind of person I wanna be, so if I have a question, I mean, it happens.   Lucy mentioned a couple of things. I have... You know, she's had some pretty major, major things. I have like little things that happen all the time, and they just like bring me to tears.   Like there was this one moment during the pandemic when I was like driving across the country by myself. I was like in Marfa, and I was trying to get to California and I had like a toilet in the back seat. Remember when we were all doing that kind of thing?   Lucy: It was really amazing.   Deb: It was so crazy.   Lucy: But Deb, not everybody had a toilet in their back seat.   Annie: I know. I need that now.   Deb: It still comes in handy.   Annie: I'm sure.   Deb: (48:43) And I was in, and yeah, Lucy is amazing. She'll talk to me on the phone, but Lucy will do because I love to talk on the phone and I love to Zoom. Lucy does not. So she'll tell me in advance, okay, I will talk to you, but it's gonna be for like 20 minutes or I'm gonna have to get off like pretty soon.   But she Zoomed with me and Marfa and I just didn't realize how upset I was about this one rejection that I'd gotten. And it was a really small rejection, I don't know why it bothered me so much, but I just like started crying and like I was like way out in like so many miles from any so many hours from anyone I knew and you know the world was going to shit, and I'd gotten this like tiny rejection from a magazine like a little like I had it was the page was it was like a piece that was like a page long or something, and Lucy just like knew exactly why I I was so upset, and just was able to talk to me about what that meant to me. And just refocus me to like, "look, you don't have to write those. You don't have to be that writer. You don't have to do that." And it was so freeing to know that I didn't always have to be, I don't even know how to describe it, but it was meant a lot. And things like that happen all the time.   Annie: (50:15.265) That's such a wonderful model of mutual support.   Lucy: We'll be right back.   Annie: Hi Lit Fam. We hope you're enjoying our conversation with Lucy Corin and Deb Olin Unferth, and their love for the word, the world, and each other. If you love what we're doing here at LitFriends, please take a moment now  to follow, subscribe, rate, and review our podcasts on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen to podcasts. Just a few minutes of your time will help us so much to continue to bring you great conversations like this week after week.  Thank you for listening. Back to a conversation with Lucy Corin and Deb Olin Unferth.     Annie: I'm also aware that we're working in an industry that's a zero-sum construct. And, you know, Lucy, you were sort of joking earlier about... Deb winning all of the awards that you later got. But I am curious, like, what about competition between literary friends when we're living in a world with basically shrinking resources?   Lucy: I feel competition, but I don't really feel it with my literary friends. Does that make sense? Like, I'll feel it with my idea of somebody that I don't really know except for their literary profile, right? But when someone like Deb gets something, it makes the world seem right and true, right? And so that's not hard to bear, right? That's just a sign of a good thing in a world that you're afraid isn't so good.   Deb: I guess I feel like if Lucy gets something, then that raises the chances that I'm gonna get something. I'm gonna get the same thing. Because if we're kind of in the same, like we both published with Grey Wolf, we both have the same editor, so we've multiple times that we've been on these trips, we've both been working on books that were supposed to come out with Graywolf with Ethan. (52:16.3) You know, so I feel like if Lucy gets something, then the chances go up.   Like there was just, something just happened recently where Lucy was telling me that she had a little, like a column coming out with The Believer. And I was like, "oh my God, I didn't even know that they were back." I'm like, "man, I really wanna be in The Believer. Like, I can't believe like, you know, they're back and I'm not in them. I gotta be in it. I said that to Lucy on the phone. And then, like the very next day, Rita wrote me and said, "Hey, do you want to write something?"   And so I wrote to Lucy immediately. I was like, did you write to Rita? And she was like, "no, I really didn't." So it's like, we're in the same— Did you, Lucy?   Lucy: No, I didn't! Rita did that all by herself.   Lito: You put it out into the universe, Deb.   Annie: Lucy did it. Hot cut, Lucy did it!   Deb:  So we're like, we're like in the same, I feel a lot of the time like we're kind of in the same lane and so that really helps because like, I do have writer friends who are not in the same lane as me and maybe. Like I'm not as close, but maybe that would be, but if I was as close, maybe that would cause me more confusion. Like I would be like, you know, "geez, how can I get that too? Or it's hopeless, I'll never get that, you know? So I just don't do that thing," or something. So that's really comforting.   Lito: What are your obsessions?   Lucy: Well, I mean-   Lito: How do they show up on the page?   Lucy: I feel like it's so obvious with Deb that like, you know, Deb got obsessed with chickens, and there was a whole bunch of stuff about chickens. First there was a really smart, brilliant Harper's essay where she learned her stuff. And then there was the novel where she, you know, imagined out the chickens (54:19) to touch on everything, right?   Annie: Then there was a chicken a thousand years in advance.   Lucy: Right, and then there's a beautiful chicken art in the house, and there's, you know. And I'm sure that she's gotten way more chicken gifts than she knows what to do with. But then the Sahara, like, you know, she was obsessed with the Sahara and you'll see it in the next book. It's gonna be— It's not gonna be in a literal way, right? But it'll be like, you'll feel the sand, you'll feel that landscape.   So I don't know, like I feel like the obsessions show up in the books. I mean, are there, I mean, this is a question like, Deb, do you think you have obsessions that don't show up in your work? We both have really cute little black dogs.   Deb: (55:07) Oh, not really. I mean, but I do get obsessed. Like I just get so, so like obsessed in an unhealthy way. And then I just have to wait it out. I just have to like wait until I'm not obsessed anymore. And it's like an ongoing just I'm like, OK, here it comes. It's like sleeping over me. Like how many years of my life is going to be are going to be gone as a result of this?   So I'm always like so relieved when I'm not in that space. Like Lucy's obsession comes down to that, with her language, that she's like exploring one idea, like she'll take an idea and she like worries that over the course of a whole book and that she'll just it's like almost like a cubist approach. She'll be like approaching it from so many different standpoints. And that is like, I mean, Lucy is so smart and the way that she does that is just so genius. And so I feel like that's the thing that really keeps drawing me to her obsessions, that keeps bringing me back to that page to read her work again and again. And yeah, and that's how she is in person too.   Lito: Why do you write? What does it do for the world, if anything?   Lucy: (56:37) I know I had a little tiny throat clear, but I think it was because I'm still trying to figure it out because I feel like the answer is different in this world order than it was in earlier world orders. Like when I first answered those questions for myself when I was deciding to make these big life choices and say, "you know, fuck everything except for writing," like I was answering, I was answering that question a different way than I would now, but I don't quite have it to spit out right now, except that I do think it has something to do with a place where the world can be saved. Like, writing now is a place of respite from the rest of the world where you can still have all of these things that I always assumed were widely valued, that feel more and more narrowly valued. And so I write to be able to have that in my life and to be able to connect with the other people who share those kinds of values that are about careful thinking, that are about the glory of the imagination, that are about the sanctity of people having made things.   Annie: Lucy, I need that on my wall. I just need to hear that every day.   Deb: I mean, I feel like if I can think about it in terms of my reading life, that like art changes my mind all the time. Like that's the thing that teaches me. Like I remember when I was a kid, and I lived right near the Art Institute of Chicago, and I remember going in, and they had the Jacob Lawrence immigration panels, migration panels up there that was like a traveling exhibition. And I had none of that information. I did not know about the Great Migration. I just didn't know any of that. So I just remember walking from panel to panel and reading and studying it, (58:47.952) reading it and studying it and just like getting like just getting just it was like a It was such a revelation and I just learned so much and like changed my mind about so many things just in that moment that it was like I'll never forget that.   And I feel like I, I totally agree with Lucy that the reasons that I write now and the reasons that I read now are very different than they were like before, say 2015, or something. But that, that maybe it has its roots in that sort of Jacob Lawrence moment where, you know, just I read these things and it's, I like, I love sinking deep into books that are really changing my mind and like teaching me about the world in ways that I never could have imagined, and I love that so much and I… I don't know if I have that to offer, but I really try hard, you know. Like I tried that with the chicken book. I'm kind of trying that, I hope, in this book that I'm trying to finish and— ha finish!—that I'm trying to get through. And so I think that that's why I think that art is so important.   I don't know if that's truly why I write though. I feel like why I write is that I've always written, and it's like I love it so much. Like I just, sometimes I hate it, sometimes I hate it for like a whole year or whatever, but it's just, it's so much a core of who I am. (01:00:39) And I just, I can't imagine my life any other way. It's just it's just absolutely urgent to me.   Annie: Yeah, urgent. Yeah. I think we all feel that in some way.   Annie:(01:01:04.374) Thank you both for talking to us a little bit about your friendship and getting to know a little bit more about how you started and where you're at now. We're going to move into the lightning round.   Lito: Ooooo Lightning round.   Annie: (01:01:16) Deb, who were you in seventh grade? Who was I in seventh grade? In one sentence, oh my God, the pressure is on. I was unpopular and looked, my hair was exactly the same as it is now. And I wore very similar clothes.   Lucy: (01:01:44) I was a peer counselor, and so I was like the Don who held everybody's secrets.   Lito: Beautiful. Lucy.   Lucy: It saved me. Otherwise, I wouldn't have had a place in that world.   Annie: Makes so much sense.   Lito: Wow. Who or what broke your heart first, deepest?   Lucy: I mean, I would just say my mom.   Deb: I guess, then I have to say my dad.   Annie: Okay, which book is a good lit friend to you?   Deb: Can I say two? The Autobiography of Alice B. Toklas by Gertrude Stein and The Known World by Edward P. Jones.   Annie: Excellent.   Lucy: My go-to is White Noise. Still. Sorry.   Lito: No need to apologize.   Lucy: Yep.   Annie Lito (01:02:27) Who would you want to be lit friends with from any point in history?   Lucy: For me it's Jane Bowles.   Deb: Oh, whoa. Good one. She would be maybe a little difficult. I was gonna say Gertrude Stein, then I was like, actually, she'd be a little difficult.   Lucy: What a jerk!   Deb: I think Zora Neale Hurston would be fun.   Lucy: Well, yeah, of course. For sure.   Annie: We were gonna ask who your lit frenemy from any time might be, but maybe you've already said.   Lucy: Oh, right. I accidentally said my lit frenemy instead of my lit friend.   Annie: Yeah.   Lucy: Mm-hmm.   Deb: (01:03:08) A frenemy from any time?   Annie: Any time. Yeah, it doesn't have to be Jonathan Franzen. I feel like most people will just be like Jonathan Franzen. But it could be any time in history.   Deb: I mean, if you're gonna go that route, then it would probably be, um, like...   Lito: Kierkegaard.   Deb: I don't know, maybe Nietzsche? If you're gonna go that route, if you're gonna go like, like existential philosophers.   Annie: (01:03:34) That's great.   Lito: That could be a podcast too.   Annie: Just like epic frenemy. The most epic frenemy.   Lito: (01:03:35)  Well, that's our show.   Annie & Lito: Thanks for listening.   Annie: We'll be back next week with our guests Melissa Febos and Donika Kelly.    Lito: Find us on all your socials @LitFriendspodcasts   Annie: And tell us about an adventure you've had with your Lit bestie. I'm Annie Liontas.   Lito: And I'm Lito Velazquez.   Annie: Thanks to our production squad. Our show was edited by Justin Hamilton.   Lito: Our logo was designed by Sam Schlenker.   Annie: Lisette Saldaña is our Marketing Director.   Lito: Our theme song was written and produced by Roberto Moresca.   Annie: And special thanks to our show producer Toula Nuñez.   Lito: This was Lit Friends, Episode 2.

Volvemos hoy con lo prometido: una entrevista realizada hace dos años al gran novelista norteamericano #JonathanFranzen con ocasión de la traducción de su novela #Crossroads #Encrucijadas, la historia de la saga familiar de los #Hildebrants. Una charla sobre la novela, los personajes y el poder de la ficción. Realizada en enero de 2022. // Nuestra segunda entrevista en inglés #novelanorteamericana #americannovel #paredroinenglish #novel #novela #hildebrants --- Support this podcast: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/paredropodcast/support

When best-selling thriller writer Douglas Preston began playing around with OpenAI's new chatbot, ChatGPT, he was, at first, impressed. But then he realized how much in-depth knowledge GPT had of the books he had written. When prompted, it supplied detailed plot summaries and descriptions of even minor characters. He was convinced it could only pull that off if it had read his books.Large language models, the kind of artificial intelligence underlying programs like ChatGPT, do not come into the world fully formed. They first have to be trained on incredibly large amounts of text. Douglas Preston, and 16 other authors, including George R.R. Martin, Jodi Piccoult, and Jonathan Franzen, were convinced that their novels had been used to train GPT without their permission. So, in September, they sued OpenAI for copyright infringement.This sort of thing seems to be happening a lot lately–one giant tech company or another "moves fast and breaks things," exploring the edges of what might or might not be allowed without first asking permission. On today's show, we try to make sense of what OpenAI allegedly did by training its AI on massive amounts of copyrighted material. Was that good? Was it bad? Was it legal? Help support Planet Money and get bonus episodes by subscribing to Planet Money+ in Apple Podcasts or at plus.npr.org/planetmoney.

Back in the 80s, literary agent Susan Golomb plucked Jonathan Franzen's manuscript from her slush pile. They've worked together ever since. She founded the Susan Golomb Literary Agency in 1988 with Franzen as her first client, and joined Writers House in 2015. Susan represents other notables such as Glen David Gold, William T. Vollmann, Rachel Kushner, Imbolo Mbue, Angie Kim, and Nell Zink. She joined me to talk about the state of publishing and how it's changed, where A.I. is taking the industry, what she looks for in her clients, query letter dos and don'ts, why comp titles frustrate her, her feelings about MFAs, and much more. Along the way, we referenced two articles. The first, a recent New Yorker article about how changes in the publishing industry impact writers. And the second, an essay her client — Vauhini Vara — wrote about her own experiences with artificial intelligence. For more information on Writers on Writing and additional writing tips, visit our Patreon page. To listen to past interviews, visit our website. We're also excited to announce the opening of our new bookstore on bookshop.org. We've stocked it with titles from our guests, as well as some of our own personal favorites. By purchasing through the store, you'll support both independent bookstores and our show. New titles will be added all the time (it's a work in progress). Finally, on Spotify you can listen to an album's worth of typewriter music like what you hear on the show. Look for the artist, Just My Type. Email the show at writersonwritingpodcast@gmail.com. We love to hear from our listeners. (Recorded on November 3, 2023) Host: Barbara DeMarco-Barrett Host: Marrie Stone Music and sound editing: Travis Barrett (Stream his music on Spotify, Apple Music, Etc.)

It can be tough to wind down after hosting The Late Show, so sometimes Stephen needs a bedtime story to help him fall asleep. We're thrilled to present this spoonful of sugar from the one and only Julie Andrews, who recited Stephen's favorite children's poem 'The King's Breakfast' by A. A. Milne; followed by two original works by authors Jonathan Franzen and George Saunders. Julie Andrews originally aired October 22nd, 2019; Jonathan Franzen originally aired October 28th, 2015; and George Saunders originally aired December 8th, 2015. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This week, Dana is joined by Slate's books and culture columnist, Laura Miller, and senior editor Rebecca Onion (who are filling in for Julia and Stephen). The panel begins by unraveling Passages, the sexy but also, at times, repelling feature from director Ira Sachs about a complicated love triangle. The film received a controversial NC-17 rating from the Motion Picture Association. Then, they head to Detroit to discuss Justified: City Primeval, FX's revival of the Raylan Givens cult classic that ran for six seasons. Finally, the three consider Michael Oher's recent legal allegation that the Tuohy family (immortalized in the 2009 Oscar-winning movie The Blind Side) never really adopted him but instead, placed him in a conservatorship. It's a scandal at the fascinating convergence of exploitation, fame, race, and adoption.  In the exclusive Slate Plus segment, the panel examines nature writing and their relationship to the form, inspired by Jonathan Franzen's essay for The New Yorker, “The Problem with Nature Writing.”  Email us at culturefest@slate.com.  Endorsements: Laura: Her quest for a new detective series (that isn't stupid or cliché) is over: Laura endorses Deadloch, a Prime Video comedy set in Tasmania that's equal parts genuine mystery and delicious social satire.  Rebecca: Anya Liftig's memoir, Holler Rat, beautifully recounts her upbringing where she often felt caught between two worlds: the comfortable, upper-middle-class life in Connecticut where she lived, and the summers spent in Appalachia, her mother's home.  Dana: A behind-the-scenes video for, what could potentially be the song of the summer, “I'm Just Ken” has just been released. In it, we see Ryan Gosling rehearsing and cameos from Greta Gerwig, Simu Liu and co-writer Mark Ronson, and it's just super fun.  Outro music: “I Want a Change” by The Big Let Down.  Podcast production by Cameron Drews. Production assistance by Kat Hong.  This episode is sponsored by the podcast About the Journey. Learn more here: https://traveler.marriott.com/about-the-journey/ If you enjoy this show, please consider signing up for Slate Plus. Slate Plus members get an ad-free experience across the network and exclusive content on many shows. You'll also be supporting the work we do here on the Culture Gabfest. Sign up now at Slate.com/cultureplus to help support our work. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This week, Dana is joined by Slate's books and culture columnist, Laura Miller, and senior editor Rebecca Onion (who are filling in for Julia and Stephen). The panel begins by unraveling Passages, the sexy but also, at times, repelling feature from director Ira Sachs about a complicated love triangle. The film received a controversial NC-17 rating from the Motion Picture Association. Then, they head to Detroit to discuss Justified: City Primeval, FX's revival of the Raylan Givens cult classic that ran for six seasons. Finally, the three consider Michael Oher's recent legal allegation that the Tuohy family (immortalized in the 2009 Oscar-winning movie The Blind Side) never really adopted him but instead, placed him in a conservatorship. It's a scandal at the fascinating convergence of exploitation, fame, race, and adoption.  In the exclusive Slate Plus segment, the panel examines nature writing and their relationship to the form, inspired by Jonathan Franzen's essay for The New Yorker, “The Problem with Nature Writing.”  Email us at culturefest@slate.com.  Endorsements: Laura: Her quest for a new detective series (that isn't stupid or cliché) is over: Laura endorses Deadloch, a Prime Video comedy set in Tasmania that's equal parts genuine mystery and delicious social satire.  Rebecca: Anya Liftig's memoir, Holler Rat, beautifully recounts her upbringing where she often felt caught between two worlds: the comfortable, upper-middle-class life in Connecticut where she lived, and the summers spent in Appalachia, her mother's home.  Dana: A behind-the-scenes video for, what could potentially be the song of the summer, “I'm Just Ken” has just been released. In it, we see Ryan Gosling rehearsing and cameos from Greta Gerwig, Simu Liu and co-writer Mark Ronson, and it's just super fun.  Outro music: “I Want a Change” by The Big Let Down.  Podcast production by Cameron Drews. Production assistance by Kat Hong.  This episode is sponsored by the podcast About the Journey. Learn more here: https://traveler.marriott.com/about-the-journey/ If you enjoy this show, please consider signing up for Slate Plus. Slate Plus members get an ad-free experience across the network and exclusive content on many shows. You'll also be supporting the work we do here on the Culture Gabfest. Sign up now at Slate.com/cultureplus to help support our work. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Jennifer Egan is not only a novelist, she's also written short stories and award-winning magazine journalism. She's one of those writers who can both spin a fascinating yarn and load it up with insights into everything from human nature to the future of technology, all while pulling off bewitching turns of phrase; what the writer Jonathan Franzen has called “micro felicities.” Egan is as funny, fascinating, and open IRL as she is on the page although it's not clear she feels that way given she talks about how much smarter she feels in writing than in speaking!In this episode we talk about:Egan's writing process The power of writing by hand The shocking, relentless, ruthless discipline that she imposes on herself to never do the same thing twice as she's writingCuriosity, awe, and panic attacksHow she handles feedbackHer feelings of insubstantiality Our cultures fetishization of authenticityThe impact of success on her workAI and our possible technological futuresFull Shownotes: https://www.tenpercent.com/tph/podcast-episode/jennifer-eganSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

The Drunk Guys drink the correct amount of beer this week when they read The Corrections by Jonathan Franzen. Their livers need a correction after: Impactful by Return Brewing, Reese and Desist Stout by Central Waters, High-Low by Finback, Curiosity by Finback, No Time to Pie by KCBC, and Peach

In today's flashback, an outtake from Episode 426, my conversation with Jonathan Franzen from August 2016. He is the author of six novels, most recently Crossroads. He has also published five works of nonfiction, including The Discomfort Zone, Farther Away, and The End of the End of the Earth. Over the course of his career, Franzen has received the National Book Award, the James Tait Black Memorial Award, the Heartland Prize, Die Welt Literature Prize, the Budapest Grand Prize, and the first Carlos Fuentes Medal awarded at the Guadalajara International Book Fair. He is a member of the American Academy of Arts and Letters, the American Academy of Arts and Sciences, the German Akademie der Künste, and the French Ordre des Arts et des Lettres. I spoke with Jonathan Franzen as the paperback edition of his bestselling novel Purity was being published. Air date: August 10, 2016. *** Otherppl with Brad Listi is a weekly literary podcast featuring in-depth interviews with today's leading writers. Available where podcasts are available: Apple Podcasts, Google Podcasts, Spotify, Stitcher, iHeart Radio, etc. Subscribe to Brad Listi's email newsletter. Support the show on Patreon Merch @otherppl Instagram  YouTube TikTok Email the show: letters [at] otherppl [dot] com The podcast is a proud affiliate partner of Bookshop, working to support local, independent bookstores. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices