Sauna Talk

Welcome to this special episode of Sauna Talk. We welcome Adam from Thermé USA, who led the panel discussion with three public sauna operators from North America. This episode is a “two-fer” in that as introduction, we get to hear from the group as they talk about the gathering and their panel discussion. Then, we move over to the panel discussion as it happened live, amongst almost 100 people in attendance at the Culture of Bathing gathering in New York City, January, 2025 Let's welcome Annette from Tampa Bay, Florida, Kelly from Hudson Bay, New York and Stephanie, from Montreal Quebec Canada.

Today on Sauna Talk, we welcome Mika Meskanen and Wendy Liu. Mika is Finnish, and partner Wendy is Chinese. They live in London, and we met for this Sauna Talk on the bench in my backyard sauna in Minneapolis. This is our second podcast episode together, the first being episode #54. And, as you know, I much prefer Sauna Talk on the sauna bench, where so much magic in conversation and connection usually happens. A few nuggets Sauna Travel: Leading sauna tours to Finland. Dynamic Duo Origin Story Sauna culture in Britain Mika's musing: “the stove should always win” World Class Wendy: Sauna Aid & connector.

Today on Sauna Talk we re-welcome Jon Sabes. Jon is a returning Sauna Talk guest, first being episode #061, and we rejoin together again, on the same bench for this second episode. Jon spends most of his time with his wife and family in Los Angeles and also in Baja Mexico. He was back to Minneapolis for a winter weekend, and we met for a cross country ski at his Lake Minnetonka house as the sauna was idling its way up to serving temperature. I love interviewing authors. And for a handful of reasons. One is that I know how much dedication, ambition, and focus it takes to write a book. From start to finish. Another reason why I like interviewing authors is that when it's a compelling subject, the interview process is easy for me! Our conversation flows like good steam in the hot room. And this is how I felt, sitting on the bench with my good friend Jon Sabes. Healthy Wealthy Longevity We discuss his new book, “Healthy Wealthy Longevity.“ And in his book, you will learn some practical strategies to help you live a fulfilling, happy life. On the bench, we discuss a few key takeaways including: Intentional Living: how small, consistent actions can lead to significant improvements over time. Compounding Effects: how minor daily habits, whether positive or negative, accumulate, profoundly impacting your overall well-being. Holistic Approach: how to recognize the synergy between physical health, financial stability, and emotional happiness, Through practical advice and insights, “Healthy Wealthy Longevity” serves as a guide for readers aiming to intentionally design a life rich in health, prosperity, and joy. There are several nuggets in his new book that stay with me, and you'll get to hear some of them right now.. Oh, before I forget. I have been using Jon's daily journal for about a month now. It's insanely good and if, like me, you're looking to get your train back on the track, I recommend you order his pocket journal and make it a part of your morning routine. The journal helps me organize my goals and tasks. It helps ground me with gratitude and appreciation, helping me on my journey towards living a happier life. And PS.. Jon is a fellow board member of the Sauna Research Institute. There are some great things brewing in the area of sauna research. And those of us interested in sauna will be hearing more from Jon Sabes and SRI.

Greetings! We recorded this episode as part of the sauna building seminar at the West Coast Sauna Summit, January, 2025, Loon Lake Resort outside Vancouver, BC Canada. Let's Sauna Talk: building saunas! Sauna Talk podcast all about building saunas I moderate a panel discussion with, on my left, Andrew from Saunabuilder and on my right, Josh from Theraluxe. These two are Western Canadian sauna builders who left their finish nailer behind in order to come to the West Coast Sauna Summit this past month just outside Vancouver, BC Canada. I really enjoyed our time together. You'll hear my kind of sauna building thinking. From bench heights to wall cladding. Wood stoves to electric. Mobile to fixed backyard, we cover a lot of topics in an open and collaborative spirit. There are no solutions. There are only trade-offs.” ― Thomas Sowell, A Conflict of Visions: Ideological Origins of Political Struggles

It was impromptu, and it was fun. It was completely unrehearsed, and it rambled in places (when I was unable to hold the microphone). This episode holds some wonderful gems of free thinking. This is Sauna Talk, and this is what I love about Sauna Talk. Like good sauna, Sauna Talk has few rules. This was the spirit at this fireside chat at the West Coast Sauna Summit. While some sauna'ed and others slept, most of the attendees, 25-30 of us came together for fireside chat Sauna Talk. It was later in the evening on night #2. Imagine seven or so mobile saunas deployed lakeside, just outside the high ceiling gathering room at the Loon Lake retreat centre, nested in the UBC Malcolm Knapp Research Forest. And Co-producer Valterri calling the session together in his Finnish accent: “ok, everybody, let's gather our chairs around in a circle. Let's Sauna Talk.” Oh, man, this is my kind of conference. These are my kind of people, and we get into my kind of thinking and conversing. By this time in the gathering, we had become quite comfortable with each other. A lot of the formal presentations were behind us. Many of the formalities of reading name tags and polite introductions well in the rear view mirrors. The Fireside chat Some sat with their sauna sandals on, some sat barefoot. Others in bathrobes or a towel wrapped around them. We gather for Sauna Talk, after all. New connections and new friendships were alchemized at the West Coast Sauna Summit, and I hope, as you listen along, that this episode brings some of that goodness and spirit, wherever you may be tuning in. One final note before I turn this over. A huge thank you to Valterri and Linda for not only putting together a great event, and bringing together a wonderful group of thermal enthusiasts, but for helping to create a vibe of “oneness.” Like a resonating, penetrating, satisfying wave of löyly, their relaxed demeanor, positive energy, and spirit of inclusion for all of us in attendance enveloped all of us, equally, together. I really enjoy the West Coast Sauna Culture. No gatekeeping. Beautiful nature. Cold lakes, open, collaborative thinking. The rising sauna tide lifts all boats. This is how sauna culture can exist, and I'll do all I can to help share the spirit created by Linda and Valterri, wherever good sauna may take me. So, without further ado, let's welcome many of the attendees from the West Coast Sauna Summit to .. Sauna Talk.

This Sauna Talk episode was recorded in New York City at the Recent Culture of Bathing Gathering, mid January 2025. Shelby, Artist, Painter, Thermé Group: Bringing artists and design into the Thermé bathing facilities. Dimitri Shapiro, Co-owner, The Russian and Turkish Baths: “You'll see a very diverse group. Our clientele has become younger.. and more diverse.” 5 hot rooms. Rock is heated by gas over night. “A lost art. It takes up a lot of space.” The stove is 130 years old. Don Genders, Founder, Design for Leisure: “We provide everything that makes you hot, wet, and cold.” A long association with their vendor partners. Cosmos, Wellness Director, Thermé Group: Essential oils and Experience Creator. Medical school. Biology Journey member. “Aufguss appeared as a necessity.” Jadeite Stone. Viki, Founder, Earth Sauna, Victoria, BC, Canada: “We need this kind of training in North America, right now.” Megan, Founder, Du Nord Sauna, Duluth MN. Regarding Lake Superior: “The lake is the boss.” With snow: “You don't have to read the snow.”    

“What a great event” proclaimed Gayle Myers who, with her partner Gary, partook in the recent backyard sauna tour through 10 saunas built by homeowners in backyards in Minneapolis for the Parade of Saunas event. Parade of Saunas 2024 raised $1,500 for charity. “I had a constant stream through my space of curious folk, ranging from seasoned sauna pros to those just starting to daydream about their own backyard sauna retreat.” Let's check in with a few of the saunas as part of Parade of Saunas 2024:   Ryan's Fulton Sauna A serene backyard retreat in the Fulton neighborhood of Minneapolis, complete with an AirBnb. “I put on my extravert hat and gabbed the whole 4 hours on my sauna spiel;).”     Steve Hawkins Good fun.  I think I spoke with 60 + people today.  Good vibes.  People really were appreciative of the sauna and willingness to share.   “Loved talking with all the different hosts and learning about how they made their saunas” – paraphrase of many of the visitors today. Darin's NorthUP Darin from Urban Wing was proud to display his ultralight NorthUp Minne, this is the one they collaborated with Paddle North to float on one of their floating docks in Oct '23 Joe Sauna “Such a great experience to meet so many people as enthusiastic about the sauna experience as I am. Everyone that came to check out my set up felt like a member of the tribe. So glad to be a part of something that will hopefully become an annual tradition.” SaunaTimes sauna “The first guests started streaming in just after noon.” Glenn said. “I didn't think I'd have it in me to show my sauna to people for four hours, but their kindness and good vibes fueled me. Then, hosting five people for sauna at 4pm, well, that took things to a higher level. Max brought veniks. And the 6 of sauna'd well into the night. It was a great sauna day, and warm on all levels” Tom's LightWave sauna “That was a fun day talking saunas! Everyone seemed to enjoy the chance to see others saunas.”

Today on the Sauna Talk podcast we welcome Ashley Mason. Ashley Mason, earned her PhD in clinical psychology from the University of Arizona. She is an Associate Professor of Psychiatry in the Weill Institute for Neurosciences and the UCSF Osher Center for Integrative Health. Ashley is a clinical psychologist and directs behavioral treatment for insomnia at the UCSF Osher Center Clinic. She is Director of the UCSF Sleep, Affect, and Eating (SEA) Lab. Ashley is the Co-Director of the UCSF Center for Obesity Assessment, Study, and Treatment (COAST). She is primarily a researcher but also treats patients for insomnia within the Osher Center Sleep Clinic. Whole body hyperthermia In our chat today, you'll learn about her work surrounding “whole body hyperthermia.” Her 2023 BrainMind Summit presentation touches upon sauna and how heat treatment may have a positive impact on depression by regulating body temperature. Reintegrating thermal stress could be an effective approach to treating some individuals with depression.   Heat treatment and antidepressant effects There is correlation between core body temperature and depression. Editing thermal stress out of our lives (air conditioning, climate controlled indoor living has put is in “the narrow band.”, when all along, acute heat stress could help us! Especially when the idea of an ice cold lake plunge after sauna is about the best idea we've ever heard! I'm pleased to welcome Ashley Mason to Sauna Talk.

Today on the Sauna Talk podcast, i'm pleased to present Earric Lee, who is a leading researcher surrounding the health benefits of sauna. As you listen along, you'll hear the background noise of the busy-ness and hustle and bustle of London streets. As, instead of on the sauna bench, we capture this episode outside a London hotel. Earric and I converged for the recent British Sauna Society Sauna Summit. And it was here, in London, where I was able to capture Earric. And share with you his exhaustive yet budding effort to help bring sauna research to the forefront. Earric Lee is a fellow board member of the Sauna Research Institute. He has a clear focus on helping de-silo sauna researchers globally. He is also committed to helping advance studies towards what you and I know to be true. Sauna is good for us. So, let's welcome ..

This is episode #100 of Sauna Talk. Do you want to know the Sauna Talk origin story? Well, when I started this podcast in 2016, 8 years ago, the idea was to help capture a bit of what felt like on the sauna bench. That's a place where deep, collaborative conversations can happen. It's often a place of untangling the wires in our heads, where our minds can open up to creative thinking, and problem solving. It's a fun place. Sauna Talk is described here as: Sauna talk is a different kind of talk. It is casual talk between a father and his teenage son, and reconnection talk with a friend you wish you could see more frequently, or collaborative talk amongst NHL hockey players or business partners working through a strategy. This happens because we have no distractions and we are relaxed in mind, body, and spirit. As we know, sitting on the sauna bench creates an interesting environment. Our bodies are being stressed, yet we are feeling very relaxed. For many of us, talking and thinking is difficult. Yet for others, it's an environment where thoughts and ideas start flowing like in a kaleidoscope of colors. In this episode, you will hear some excerpts from a few of the 99 episodes: Tom Rolando The Sauna Talk origin. Tom and I are still very close buds. He and I are working on the book Sauna Life, and it's a slow process. Daryl Lamppa Daryl Lamppa 22:46 – the old style stoves in the area. Scott Olson 17:48 peddling to hockey stores. 18:15 Finding the hockey player entrepreneurs in their own towns. Wim Hof 17:03 Sauna & Cold. 19:03 Dr. Jari Laukkenen 30:10-30-55 goals for further sauna research #063 Alex Blyashuk 29:35-32:06, explaining veniks. #072 Bruce Oreck 33:20-35:21. Finland happiest country. Explains his reasoning. #097 Lasse Erikson Bring the owners into the sauna. 35:20 – 37:18. That feeling that you have contributed to something good in life. I hope you enjoy any one or number of these 100 episodes! It has been a pleasure hearing and sharing the motivations and passions of so many remarkable people! Putting these episodes together has been a privilege. Sharing them with you continues to be a joy.

Today on Sauna Talk, we welcome Ragna Marie Fjeld, General Secretary, Oslo Badstuforening. What does Badstuforening translate to in English? Sauna Association. So, let me tell you a bit about the Oslo Sauna Association. Founded in 2016, the same year as the 612 Sauna Society in Minneapolis, Minnesota. But the difference start here. Where 612 has one sauna, and granted it is the original sauna with the same work horse original sauna stove, benches, walls, and spiritual patina abound, Oslo Badstuforening's inaugural first sauna seeds were planted in much more fertile soil. The soil along the harbor of Oslo's fjord was ripe for sauna expansion. Yes, their original first sauna is still operational, and with a spiritual patina rating of 9.4, but surrounding this flagship sauna is a fleet of 18 additional saunas: 14 other floating saunas, and 4 mobile saunas. And as you listen to this, chances are that these numbers will be outdated and higher. The Osla Sauna Association train is not slowing down. As you will hear in this episode, the constraints to growth and expansion are, well, just not there. Revenue? No. They are most often fully booked (and by the way, very reasonably priced for all economies of economic income scales). Steam master hosts? No. As you will hear, their HR department is busy with applicants. Including doctors and politicians. Builders? No. Matter of fact, every architect in Norway wants to design a sauna. Their corporate offices are unassuming and yet buzzing with activity. People dig working here, and their Secretary General, Ragna Marie Fjeld runs a collaboratively effective ship. Let's listen in.

Today on Sauna Talk, we welcome Alan Jalasjja who shares with us “The Spirit of Sauna.” Alan is an evangelist who is with us to help promote the experience. Growing up with sauna his whole life, as a Finnish Canadian, we get the perspective of what sauna spirit means to him. World Sauna Forum 2024 The growth of the event compared to 2022 Globe and Mail article I encourage you to click through the link towards his Op Ed opinion piece that recently appeared in the Globe and Mail, which discusses “enjoying sauna in the now.” Sure the health benefits are there for the long term, but wow, let's enjoy our sauna time now. Thermal cycle We discuss the value of time. The holy trinity to a good cool down: cold water, nature, time. The four elements to sauna fire air water earth (the stones). Some magical gems from Alan, and happy to share with you here.

A lot has happened with Lasse Eriksen, 2.0, from our first Sauna Talk just a little over two years ago. This meeting took place on the beach in front of Farris Bad resort, south of Oslo, Norway. FarrisBad Here Lasse is the Development Manager for this top notch resort set along the shore of Norweigen's majestic coastline. Development Manager means that Lasse is given a lot of reign to help steward sauna (bastu in Norwegian) as both a noun – the place we go, as well as the verb – the thing we do inside the hot room. And for the verb, guests are treated to aufguss, and all its glory. Upon check in, guests are welcome to grab an updated flyer, which lists all the saunas on property, as well as a schedule of the aufguss events for that week. Lasse Eriksen's background As you will hear in this interview: Lasse's aim is true. We know that sauna is wonderful for our wellbeing. And Lasse is deeply committed to sharing and promoting it. In addition to Development Manager for FarrisBad, Lasse is board member of the International Sauna Association, and the Norwegian Sauna Association. Lasse is Vice President of Aufguss WM, a kindred spirit to many of us, and I'm pleased to say a great friend of mine. I love this guy. Maybe i'm getting to be a soft in my grey hair age, but Lasse had me in tears a couple of times. I feel his passion, and I hope you do too.. I'm pleased to present Lasse Eriksen, to Sauna Talk!

Today on the sauna talk bench we are joined by Stew and his sons David and Kyle Wilson, from the Homecraft sauna heater family. Who is Homecraft? Homecraft is one of Canada's longest running sauna manufacturers, this multigenerational, family-owned business has steadily grown in the shadows of towering old-growth cedar trees outside Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada. We gather on my sauna bench, the three of them lined up for interrogation as I manage the steam and the microphone from down low. Yes, those in the sauna industry from Canada are well aware that the Wilson's are polite straight shooters from Canada, but these virtues come forth loud and clear during this episode on the sauna bench. As I throw water and make steam, there is little room for anything but clarity and transparency. So, we are the beneficiaries. We learn about sauna culture in Canada, the history of this family company, and what good sauna means to Stew, David, and Kyle. No matter what the product, it could be a couch, or a pen, or a bar of soap, more and more of us are interested in learning more about the people behind the product. And this is true also for electric sauna heaters. How a sauna heater preforms is critically important. How is the steam? Is there someone in North America to support the product after the sale? Are the elements going to fail? And if so, will I be pulling apart 300 rocks to replace an element in six months? These are the kind of questions we are asking ourselves. And yet, there's another line of thought that goes into our electric sauna heater purchase decision. Who are these people? Some may be influenced by authoritarian foreign accents. But, beyond the sauna cognition theory, we may not be fully sure who is making our sauna heater. Is it Jens assembling the sauna heater, or Xinchong's young teenage daughter assembling the sauna heater? And how far did this box have to travel before coming to our front steps? Well, in the case of Homecraft electric saunas, you'll be hearing directly from the people behind the product. And what's cool is that Kyle, the younger son, like David from Superior Saunas, has a pastoral background. Who better to sit on the sauna bench with than someone who has a spiritual connection to sauna? Stew's younger son, another David, is a licensed electrician, having run his own company for 10 years. Who better to have your electrician call with a screwdriver in their hands than David at Homecraft? So, this is what we get with the guys at Homecraft. Practically designed and manufactured by and for electricians. And spiritually designed and manufactured for spiritualists. We get into the weeds about the mechanics of electric sauna heaters. And I think you'll find as we listen through, I am the one to get nerdy. And the Wilson guys are the ones to keep it light. Those that know me, know my dedication towards good sauna. I've had a rocky road the last couple of years navigating towards both good products AND good people in this space. Like Lamppa Manufacturing in Tower, Minnesota, I am pleased to introduce you to Homecraft from BC Canada. Again, it's the people AND the product.. and when it comes to Homecraft, you've found both. So, please welcome, David, Stew, and Kyle Wilson to Sauna Talk.

As we look back upon Sauna Days 2024, walking from one sauna to the next, pretty much all of us were comfortably numb. About 200 guest converged for the fourth Sauna Days event at Larsmont Cottages, North of Duluth, Minnesota, this past weekend. Some came from near, and many came from far. All were able to enjoy the multitude of saunas, speakers, nature, and locally crafted food, beverages, and live entertainment. The recipe for a comfortably numb sauna gathering is much like a basic chocolate chip cookie recipe. We don't need too many ingredients to make something scrumptious. The foundation for Sauna Days 2024 was 12 mobile saunas and one lämpömassa enriched brick and mortar sauna. Then, sprinkle in various food tents, strategically located hydration stations. Add a pinch of LMNT hydration packets (flavors of choice) and a curation of interesting speakers. Finally, as icing on the cake, infinity cold plunge access into the world's largest freshwater lake. Familiar faces A good number of the 200 plus Sauna Days 2024 attendees were repeat vendors and offenders. Familiar faces helped foster countless spontaneous re-connections either on the bench, by one of fire pits, at the bar, on the rocks, or in the lake. “So great to see you again!” And they meant it. “Is this your second or third Sauna Days?” The spontaneous gatherings were akin to traveling from stage to stage at an outdoor music festival. Then, bumping into familar faces from year's past. And, like attending a music festival with great bands and few yahoos, at Sauna Days, everyone knew the lyrics. Songs include: keep sandals outside the saunas, help fill up the löyly buckets, ask who is ready for steam before throwing water on the rocks, and by all means, close the sauna door. Far and wide As sauna becomes more popular, Sauna Days continues to draw people from places beyond the Great Lakes sauna belt region. I found myself on the bench with a couple who came all the way from the Yukon Territory. Other Canadians included Kyle Wilson, Homecraft Saunas, and his wife from Vancouver BC. We had guests from Salt Lake City, Oregon, Northern and Southern California, Florida. And yet none of these participants received the Furthest Traveled Award. That accolade was awarded to Jake Newport from Finnmark saunas. A close second went to Mika & Wendy from the British Sauna Society. The three represented the UK well, proucly wearing their signature British Blue robes as sauna uniforms. Speaker's corner The Brits added some great flavor to the Sauna Days speaker series. Jake Newport shared a slide of a map of Great Britain, showing 100 dots around the British coastline, representing the number of mobile sauna activations there. “Pretty much every beach around the coastline now has a public sauna.” We breathed along with Nick Fox, Learned about Sauna and Sobriety, gleaned insight into the future and scale of Therme Group's wellbeing oasis's (bigger than Yankee Stadium!) with President Robbie Hammond. The Steam Masters Many were quietly sharing that a highlight experience for Sauna Days 2024 was getting wacked around by one of the three Steam Masters. The three administered venik treatments in either the Steam Lodge or Deep Wave Sauna's Black Night sauna. We were blessed to have three steam masters lead rounds of venik treatments. Dan from The Banya House, California Alex, and B Alex from BSaunas in Buffalo, NY. In addition to Sauna Days being the first weekend of May, the Steam Masters introduced us to a sister event first weekend of October: Banya Fest at a stately church camp just outside Minneapolis/St. Paul. A highlight of the weekend was learning more about the ancient practice of Eastern European banya and venik treatments, documented as a Sauna Days presentation and a soon to be released Sauna Talk podcast. Sauna in nature As wonderful as it was to experience multiple saunas scattered throughout the grounds at Larsmont Cottages, once again, nature seems to provide us with the best amenity. Larsmont Cottages is set along the shores of Lake Superior. Sauna Days guests were treated to rosy red skyline sunsets, night skies bursting with stars, and even a Hawaii-esque rainbow, as we celebrated a passing shower in the later afternoon sun. Northern Minnesota sauna is always enjoyed in nature. Sauna in nature is bigger than all of us. And no bigger than within Sauna Days 2024 at Larsmont Cottages, Two Harbors, Minnesota.

Today on the actual sauna bench, we are joined and talk with Jake Newport from Finnmark. Jake makes the journey from Northern England to join me on the Larsmont Cottages sauna bench in Northern Minnesota, by the cold, clear clean water shores of Lake Superior. You can also check out my podcast with Jake and Brother Max from 2020 here. During this episode, we learn more from Jake about the thermal bathing ecosystem in the UK and globally. From career path change to multi pronged sauna business. Investing and reinvesting in the culture and the company. Super early bird grounding Fully grounded by being the first guests to Sauna Days. We enjoy solitary quiet time to ground ourselves through the hot and the cold. Mika & Wendy – lifetime achievement awards for sauna. BSS founding. The explosion of sauna in Great Britain. Huge number getting into the thermal bathing scene. Beautiful saunas on beautiful beach. Beach Box Brighton. A meaningful thermal experience Three things that give us the feeling of community: a the church, the pub, and the village green society. Britain has become more secular. People now are far more health conscious. A void around community, and a sense of community. A gap waiting to be filled. A huge spectrum of age. Mikkel Aaland, and the “lost bathing culture” and the return of uptick of thermal bathing. Larsmont Cottages sauna talk Jake describes the sauna in which we are sitting. How the sauna is Finnish style. He calls out the Western Red Cedar, and full wooden door. Jake describes the Kuuma stove: “This is a heater that you buy once.” Final words: It's the hot, then the cold, then the normalization. lying outside on the cold wet grass, Jake found himself unwound and relaxed.

Today on Sauna Talk we welcome Charlie from Community Sauna Baths in England. Who is Community Sauna Baths? Well, they are Community Interest Company, a CIC, who is dedicated to providing affordable sauna sessions to the communities they serve. Currently with four locations, including their flagship locale in Hackney, East London. Here is where we catch up with Charlie, one of the directors at Community Sauna Baths for this podcast. Currently Community Sauna Baths are serving thousands of customers from the area. Local Londoners as well as a lot of visitors from abroad. Irish, some Finns, you name it. Early influences As you'll here, Charlie grew up with the classic toaster oven experience at health clubs. Then, he was deeply affected to the positive, partacking in sauna at the Finnish Church and also Lost Horizons, the pop up social sauna in London. Feeling a tug to help advance the social communal experience, Charlie leaned in to helping with the ambitious Hackney Baths fundraising project with the British Sauna Society. The fundraising came up short, but it did pave the way towards a more organic project. 2 donated saunas, one from Charlie. Covid and beyond We talk about countless hours of donated time to host sessions. How they are learning as we are going, starting slow by serving random members of the public in Hackney London. Slow organic growth. Adding days. Modifying and improving the site. Victoria and Gabrielle building website and marketing. Community Baths today The staff provides a real nice blend of skills. Part of the beauty is that good heat and cold does most of the heavy lifting. Staff supports the good heat and cold, and people benefit from and enjoy the experience. Looking to grow. Charlie is helping work on a new site. We learn about the South London project, in Peckam, as part of the community garden. Bringing saunas into natural spots in London. 4th one in Normandy. Rob's project. The first beach sauna in France. UK affordable and inclusive. Charlie's career Charlie cut his teeth as a management consultant. Great learning experience. Freelance consulting. Started a mushroom farm. Full time. Able to pay himself a salary. Well paying job for staff. Community interest Company. A commercial mind with a non for profit structure. New community sauna in Bristol. Using profits to seed other new saunas. Setting the seeds for a community Sauna Network.

Today on Sauna Talk, we welcome Tom Carlson, a sauna enthusiast and a SaunaTimes public sauna map supporter. Tom caught the sauna bug in Germany, and brought home his love and appreciation for good heat. And, like many of us, Tom recognizes how good sauna is like a candle that lights another candle. And with this, there are really good saunas dotted all over the world. Several years ago, we built the SaunaTimes Public Sauna Map. With over 200 entries and counting, there's a good chance that as you arrive in a new town, you'll be ale to click through and find a kick ass sauna for you to attend. And for Tom, you'll hear about his commitment to helping all of us find good saunas wherever we may be. Currently, he and Kevin are SaunaTimes public sauna map champions. But I would like you to know how I first met Tom. It was a couple Sauna Days ago, at Larsmont Cottages in Two Harbors, Minnesota. A guy walks up to me with a Wisconsin 6 pack in one hand, and outstretches his other hand to shake my hand. “This is for you. You helped me realize how great sauna is. Thank you Glenn, you've pretty much changed my life.” Wow, those are big shoes to wear. However, thankfully we were both bare footed, and we both hit the same sauna bench and shared some kindred spirit thermal action. And like convective heat transfer into hot rocks from protected elements, a logical, long lasting connection was made. Tom's Travels Tom lives in Wisconsin USA, and on a whim, came through Minneapolis, and naturally found himself on the bench in my backyard sauna. We share stories and steam. And are joined with quiet guest Darin from Urban Wing. As bonus, we enjoy an extended löyly. And if you are driving, please don't close your eyes, but this extended löyly is for you.

Today on the Sauna Talk bench, we welcome three guests who are aligned to helping veterans through sauna as a means of healing our heroes. Their stories are heartfelt, their passions are clear. And for those of us who know sauna, we know that their purpose is meaningful and their success rate undeniable. (ie sauna is good for us!)! Who is Healing Heroes Saunas? The co-founders, Mike and Josh: as introduction: Mike Lotzer On the right side of the bench we have, Mike Lotzer. Mike is the Lead Pastor of Mercy Road Church in Burnsville, MN and served in the Army Chaplain Corps. from 2004-2012. Stateside, Mike served as a Casualty Notification Chaplain, Special Troops Battalion Chaplain, and Marriage Strong Bonds Instructor.  Also, he deployed in the Iraq War.   Mike has walked with soldiers, families, and loved ones through extreme pain both stateside and in combat zones. His experiences caring for dying soldiers have birthed a lifelong commitment to serve and empower Warriors and their families. Mike has been married to his wonderful wife Erica for 18 years. The couple have three children and live in Lakeville, MN. Mike has a B.A. in Comparative World Religion and Psychology from the University of Wisconsin, a Master of Divinity from Fuller Theological Seminary, and a Certification in Combat Medical Ministry and Suicide Prevention from the U.S. Army Medical Department. Kirk Center bench, we welcome back Kirk Jensen to Sauna Talk. Kirk is longtime host and fellow board member of the 612 Sauna Society. You can learn more about Kirk as he was a recent guest to the Sauna Talk podcast. Kirk spent 34 years in the Air Force. He retired as Lieutenant Colonel with +7,000 hours as a C-130 Navigator. Kirk participated in every conflict during that time. Iraq, Afghanistan, Bosnia, Somalia. Kirk's “day job” is flight simulator trainer for the Air Force. Today, you can find Kirk either near the Minneapolis St Paul airport, where he runs Air Force flight training or alongside the 612 Sauna Society Sauna, where he serves as longstanding sauna host. Josh On the left side of the bench, we have Josh Meisberger (42). Josh has been married for 19 years and has 2 wonderful teenage boys. Currently living outside of Minneapolis in Apple Valley, Josh and family saunas frequently (3-5 times per week) enjoying their permanent wood fire sauna in the back yard of their home. Josh and family are active members at Mercy Road Church in Burnsville. Josh spent 22 years in the military with 2 combat tours to Iraq before being medically retired for various military related injuries. Currently, Josh owns a construction company (Rare Homes Inc) where he and team do everything from small bathroom remodels all the way up to custom builds and commercial space work. Mike and he more recently started Healing Heroes Saunas as a way to give back to the men and women who serve our communities in Hero rolls including Veterans, Police, Firefighters, and all first responder, along with their families. Mike and Josh are currently working on their 501c3 filing, as well as fundraising so that they can expand our reach providing hot and cold therapy.  Josh and Mike are very close to finishing their second unit, which will immediately be deployed around the state of Minnesota. They have a long term goals of 5-10 units in the state of Minnesota, as well as being able to build more permanent saunas at their residence for Heroes on an application basis.   Currently you can find them on Instagram @healingheroessaunas.

Today from any one of 22 saunas, we Sauna Talk from the Great Northern Sauna Village, Malcolm Yards, Minneapolis, Minnesota, USA. “The Great Northern Sauna Village is a social and therapeutic experience hosted at Malcolm Yards. Visitors can immerse themselves in sauna culture by interacting with various Thermaculture traditions. And connecting with local sauna companies and builders. During 60-90- minute Steam Sessions, guests can explore various types of traditional wood-fired sauns. These include barrel, mobile, and backyard units; tent and floatings saunas. And a new shipping container event sauna for 20+ people. All this, while experiencing multiple forms of heat, steam, and aromatherapy with the cold contrast therapy of winter air and snow.” The numbers speak for themselves: 22 saunas from over a dozen Saunapreneurs. Some of whom I've known, supported, and encouraged from back in the day when sauna in the public domain, even here in Minnesota's sauna country, was fringe and not so enthusiastically embraced as today. Sauna Talk glowing from the Sauna Village You can see and feel the sauna glow. And as you listen along, you will be able to catch the spirit from a few of the people behind the scenes at the Great Northern Sauna Village. The event is three long weekends long. Here, we catch up with the folks today snap dab in the middle of the event on a chilly grey Saturday afternoon. Those interested in attending can catch the event during its last weekend, next weekend. Tickets are a reasonable $40, and available via the link supporting this podcast on SaunaTimes.com. We start off this episode with Shaelyn from Superior Saunas, the mayor of the Great Northern Sauna Village. We meet up with Darin from Urban Wing, Jessie from Deep Wave. John from Superior Saunas, Nomad Phil. And Excelsior Saunas Jim, Matt from Superior Saunas, and a few other selected guests along the way. Wherever this podcast may find you, I think you'll enjoy getting to know what's happening in this region. The boldly self proclaimed Sauna Capital of North America. Here is where you'll find open arms, steam billowing, endorphins rushing, and cold water plunging.

Today from any one of 22 saunas, we Sauna Talk from the Great Northern Sauna Village, Malcolm Yards, Minneapolis, Minnesota, USA. “The Great Northern Sauna Village is a social and therapeutic experience hosted at Malcolm Yards. Visitors can immerse themselves in sauna culture by interacting with various Thermaculture traditions. And connecting with local sauna companies and builders. During 60-90- minute Steam Sessions, guests can explore various types of traditional wood-fired sauns. These include barrel, mobile, and backyard units; tent and floatings saunas. And a new shipping container event sauna for 20+ people. All this, while experiencing multiple forms of heat, steam, and aromatherapy with the cold contrast therapy of winter air and snow. The numbers speak for themselves: 22 saunas from over a dozen Saunapreneurs. So, some of whom I've known, supported, and encouraged from back in the day when sauna in the public domain, even here in Minnesota's sauna country, was fringe and not so enthusiastically embraced as today. Sauna Talk glowing from the Sauna Village You can see and feel the sauna glow. And as you listen along, you will be able to catch the spirit from a few of the people behind the scenes at the Great Northern Sauna Village. The event is three long weekends long. Here, we catch up with the folks today snap dab in the middle of the event on a chilly grey Saturday afternoon. Those interested in attending can catch the event during its last weekend, next weekend. Tickets are a reasonable $40, and available via the link supporting this podcast on SaunaTimes.com. We start off this episode with Shaelyn from Superior Saunas, the mayor of the Great Northern Sauna Village. We meet up with Darin from Urban Wing, Jessie from Deep Wave. John from Superior, Nomad Phil. And Excelsior Saunas Jim, Matt from Superior Saunas, and a few other selected guests along the way. Wherever this podcast may find you, I think you'll enjoy getting to know what's happening in this region. The boldly self proclaimed Sauna Capital of North America. Here is where you'll find open arms, steam billowing, endorphins rushing, and cold water plunging.

Today we welcome back Dr. Charles Raison to this Sauna Talk podcast part 2. I encourage you to check in with Part one, where Chuck and i work from the starting block about Sauna health benefits and research surrounding hypethermia and hot/cold contrast therapy. In this episode, by design we go deeper. We unpack hot cold therapy as a novel treatment for mental health. 101.3 101.3 isn't just the radio frequency for a hit music station in the Twin Cities. We have foundational research surrounding the effects on the body and the mind of achieving this core body temperature. Ashley Mason's work at University of California San Francisco is expanding upon the psychological and physiological effects of this level of heat stress when reaching this core body temperature. Physically, from, for example the standpoint of blood pressure and heart rate variability. Yet how do these physical changes affect people's moods? Specifically, as a possible novel treatment in the area of depression, anxiety, and other mental health issues. Totonu The Japanese have a word for that nirvana feeling we get after a few sauna rounds and cold therapy action. They call it Totonu. And there is actually a published study on the neuro effects of sauna bathing. We link to this study on the Sauna Research Institute website as well as on SaunaTimes websites. In the study, it is recognized that sauna is an activity that promotes relaxation and health. Three cycles of sauna, cold, rest lowers your heart rate and makes you feel more relaxed. Intense feelings of happiness have been reported shortly after enjoying a hot sauna and cold water, what is known in Japan as the “totonou” state. With this contrast therapy, we achieve a lower heart rate, changes of brain waves, and better metabolic health through the increase in brown fat production – known as “the good fat”. And one could argue that, for those horizontally challenged, sauna use raises heart rate to about the state we achieve with a fast walk. So there is a weight loss association to regular sauna use. But this is not something i'd get the scale out to rely upon. The Vail Project – Eagle Valley We discuss a “Top Flight Sauna” for Vail Health's Behavioral Health Innovation Center. Right now in development, the CHILL'D Study (“Cold and Heat Investigation to Lower Levels of Depression”) will explore ways to optimize the proven benefits of hyperthermia for depression, including whether adding cold to heat will improve outcomes and whether hyperthermia can be effectively combined with standard antidepressants.   Vail Health is especially interested in thermic bathing within ancient practices. Many of us listening enjoy Nordic style sauna, where we pay homage to the origins of the word sauna (Finland). And sometimes many spend a lot of effort scolding its improper pronunciation. Yet, for those of us that share and know that good feeling, the definition of sauna is arguably much more important than its pronunciation. And for that matter, the definition of sauna is universal and straightforward: Sauna Definition: A room, often lined with wood, with a heat source that heats rocks to sufficient temperature to create steam when water is tossed on rocks. So, for example, Temascal, Native American Sweat Lodge, Banya and venik treatments, are all ancient sauna sweat bathing practices. Chris Lindley is Chief Population Health Officer, Vail Health and the Executive Director, Eagle Valley Behavioral HealthExecutive Director at Eagle Valley Behavioral Health. I will save his bio for what I hope to be a dedicated podcast interview with Chris. But a quick note: Chris's education and passion revolve around improving the population's health, emergency response, and wellness. Chris is a decorated combat veteran, receiving a Bronze Star and Presidential Citation while leading troops in Iraq in 2005. The convergence of the Sauna Research Institute, Vail Health, and the work happening with Charles through Ashley in San Francisco, Chris and team at Vail Health, as well as at Harvard are exciting examples for all of us, that right now, what we all know to be true is being studied and researched. Sauna is good for us! Soon, as we continue to unpack and understand how.. and why.. and how much.. I will say, I hope you enjoy my visit with Dr. Charles Raison.. and Sauna on!

Today on the virtual smoke sauna bench, please welcome my friend Jarmo Hiltunen. Author of the brand new book: Building a Traditional Finnish Smoke Sauna. I am overjoyed that for many, Jarmo will be your voice to the introduction to the wonderfulness of smoke sauna. Jarmo is a builder, but I would call him more of an artisan. Also, he is also a smoke sauna spiritual evangelist. His book is now available on Amazon As we type the words “smoke sauna” into the Amazon search bar, we have to sift our way through infrared “sauna” blankets and dozens of other misappropriations of the word “sauna” before finally finding this gem of a resource. Many/most of us around the world have little knowledge or experience with smoke sauna. It's not just buried within the search bar. And for some of us, being hidden and special is a nice place for smoke sauna to reside. For smoke sauna is a deep in history, culture, and spirit. Yes, we have had many fragmentations of sauna. But, there will be minimal to no fragmentations of traditional smoke sauna. And thanks to this comprehensive work, Jarmo Hiltunen ensures us that the purity and authenticity of smoke sauna will remain with us forever. I love that smoke sauna is hard to build. It takes commitment and cash. And these barriers help ensure that those willing to take on the task are both committed to the work. And dedicated to its reward. This book helps us decide if we want to undertake the challenge. The book clearly helps us decide for ourselves if we are ready to undertake building our own smoke sauna. We Get a flavor of the potential satisfaction in the work, and if committed, be able to realize the amazing löyly and hot room microclimate that may await us at the end of the smoke sauna building journey. Small world I am blessed to have met Jarmo Hiltunen, the author, by upmost coincidence in a public (modified) smoke sauna in Helskinki, back in 2019. Despite living in separate continents, reading through his book, I feel once again that I am right there with him on the bench. Buy this book. And whether you undertake your smoke sauna build or not, reading through the process will help you appreciate Jarmo's dedication to smoke sauna. And that alone is worth having his book on your shelf. Wishing you all good sauna. And thank you Jarmo for your hard work and dedication to making this book come to life.

Welcome to this Sauna Talk podcast episode with Nick Fox: Minnesota's first Wim Hof certified instructor and baker of amazing homemade bread. We communed in heat, cold plunge and nature in my backyard sauna recently and you'll hear my interview with Nick in just a moment. But before then, I'd like to take you back to a dark and cold February night in Minnesota a few years ago when Nick first sat down to watch the VICE documentary on Wim Hof, the Ice Man. Inspired by the science and adventures in the cold with minimal clothing, Nick began taking cold showers and practicing breathwork the very next day. His experience with the Wim Hof Method (WHM) initiated Nick's breathwork journey. In January of 2022 he went to Poland to complete his certification as a WHM Instructor, and later he became certified in the Oxygen Advantage. Now, he guides breathwork and coaches ice baths in workshops around the Midwest.  Pulmonaut beginnings Before becoming a full-time Pulmonaut, (a pulmonaut is simply someone who uses their breath as a tool for exploration and transformation) Nick taught Philosophy, History, and Art at both the high school and college level. He is also a Lieutenant Colonel in the Army Reserve, and spends his summers out in the field with the cadets at the Military Academy in West Point, NY. When he's not playing Army, he's writing and drawing with his young kids.  Sauna Talk Podcast cold exposure breathwork guests Those familiar with this podcast are familiar with a few other Sauna Talk guests from the world of cold exposure and breathwork. A few that come to mind include Harvey Martin, who currently is on staff breathing and contrast therapy-ing with the San Francisco Giants major league baseball team, Jesse Coomer, trainer, breathwork coach and author of two books on the subject, and Wim Hof himself, back in 2017. So feel free to dig back and check out these episodes in particular. Back to Nick Teaching people deep conscious breathing and cold exposure techniques is his new passion. You can visit his website foxfirebreathworks.com where you'll be able to check out his upcoming workshops and classes. For example, in January 2024, it should be cold enough in Minneapolis for Nick's winter swimming class at the Swedish Institute. He is mobilizing a kick ass wood fired mobile sauna (one that I actually had a hand in helping with with my friends Brad and Ben at Prairiewood Saunas, but that's story for another day coming soon). Anyhow, Nick looks forward to helping you explore your inner strengths. And I am super happy to share some breathing on the bench with you and Nick Fox from FoxFire Breathworks. Welcome Nick to Sauna Talk!

Today we welcome a very special guest to Sauna Talk: Dr. Charles Raison. His biography is as follows: Dr. Raison is a the Mary Sue and Mike Shannon Chair for Healthy Minds, Children & Families in the School of Human Ecology and a Professor in the Department of Psychiatry at the University of Wisconsin – Madison. Dr. Raison received his medical degree from Washington University in St Louis, Missouri, where he was elected to Alpha Omega Alpha and won the Missouri State Medical Association Award. He completed residency training at the UCLA Neuropsychiatric Institute and Hospital in Los Angeles. In addition to his medical training, Dr. Raison obtained his Masters of English from the University of Denver. Dr. Raison has written and published over 100 scientific papers as well over 20 review papers and editorials. Chapters he has written have been featured in over 30 books, and he has written two books, most recently The New Mind-Body Science of Depression, published by WW Norton in 2017. Dr. Raison's publications have been cited over 14,000 times, with three publications having more than 1,000 citations. His H-index is 44. The recipient of several teaching awards, Dr. Raison has received research funding from the National Institute of Mental Health, National Center for Complementary and Alternative Medicine, and the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. His visionary work focuses on the treatment of depression in response to illness and stress, translating neurobiological findings into novel interventions. In addition to his activities at University of Wisconsin-Madison, Dr. Raison is the mental health expert for CNN.com.” Reference: UW-Madisonhttps://www.psychiatry.wisc.edu › staff › raison-charles Sauna Talk excerpts We discuss Charles' academic and personal background, how he has been interested in World's ancient practices including Buddist Tuumo meditation, where Tibetan monks are wrapped in cold wet blankets and through breathing and meditation, are able to warm themselves for a long period of time. The area around research and studies to treat depression are of special interest. Reaching a hypothermia state has proven health benefits. Dr. Raison's 2010 depression study with 16 people, who reached 101.3 degrees f. shown a marketed decrease in depression. The participants actually lowered their internal body temperature. The World leader in Hypothermia We discuss other work and studies happening right now in the United States, through Harvard University and Massachusetts General. Also Ashley Mason's work in San Francisco. More on this soon! The Vail sauna lab Eagle County Co. is an interesting place. The disparity of rich and poor, and people moving their and experiencing the Paradox of Paradise, are likely culprits that lead to the area having the highest suicide rate in the country. Ashley Mason, UCSF. Heat has an antidepressant effect. Transforming mental health The good news is a private investment of $100mm towards a new hospital in Vail that is committed to transform mental health in this country. Providing equitable care for rich and non rich, integrating mind/body practices. Vail Health is set to be a world class research institute. Heat, thermal studies, psychedelic research are all areas of study. It is an exciting time for sauna research. The CHILL study. Can you benefit from heat whether you are taking an antidepressant or not? This episode tees the ball up for our follow up conversation which I will be equally excited to bring to you in the future. So, for right now, I am pleased to present to you Dr. Charles Raison.

Welcome to this mini Sauna Talk episode from inside and around the World's Largest Sauna. The sauna was constructed as part of the RunningMan festival outside of Atlanta Georgia, this past weekend, mid October 2023. I'll try to connect the dots to how the World's Largest Sauna came about. And it started with the folks at Embrace North, building a few saunas for the All Day Running organization. And as All Day Running began planning for the RunningMan festival, well, their experience with good heat and creative right brain thinking on the bench fostered a way to “scale” sauna. And we move over to All Day Running's co founder Todd Ferneaux's backyard. Here is where Todd built the mock prototype for the World's Largest Sauna. I'll spare the nuts and bolts of its creative construction, as you can listen to my recent podcast interview with Todd for more on that. World's Largest Sauna building I was able to lend to help with some of the construction of the sauna and set up. For now, though, I'd like to welcome you into the event: RunningMan. I attended for a few reasons, and one was to help share what I know about running the sauna stoves. I have used this same stove for 30 years. As elder statesman with more grey hair than most at the event, I was happy to help coach the stokers who became quick studies on stove operation. (note: you don't have to go into the hot room to see how your stove is performing. If you see smoke coming out the chimney, it needs attending). Runners and Sauna enthusiasts Another reason why I was happy to attend RunningMan is to celebrate and experience all the goodness happening with the Venn diagram overlap of people into hot/cold contrast therapy and people into running. As we look at the overlap, the commonalities become clear. Runners: know how to push the limits of human performance. are tuned into their bodies.. and their minds. get high on their own supply. are generally conscious folks who can feel when endorphins are rushing. know how good it feels the moment you stop banging your head against a wall. All above also applies to all of us who dig sauna. And cold plunge, as peanut butter and jelly. Knowing our bodies, minds, spirits. Runners, generally, all dig sauna. And when they feel good heat, it's all over. So, in this episode you'll hear from Todd at All Day Running, C T from Nomad Sauna, Tyler, one of the stokers, and a couple other guests, all of whom will give you a good flavor of what it's like to be in and around the World's Largest Sauna.

Today on the bench, we welcome Todd Furneaux who is spearheading the building of the World's Largest Sauna. The sauna is being constructed as part of Running Man, a three day festival happening outside of Atlanta Georgia this mid October 2023. During this episode, you'll hear about Todd's company and cohorts, All Day Running. And how the idea of building the World's Largest Sauna was surely fostered on the sauna bench or in the cold plunge. As with endorphins running and community spiriting, this is the environment for Sauna Talk and crazy out there thinking. Atlanta steeplechase. Grass track. Sauna Village, fun zone, DJs, live music, conferences, October 17, 18, 19 event. Sauna can hold. 250 – 350 people at a time. Mechanics of World's Largest Sauna Specially designed Todd Right Brain Thinking: 3,000 square feet in modular squares using 4'x4′ framing material. Side walls: sauna tent material 3 ply oxford. 9′ tall 20′ wide. Flooring: cedar flooring. Roof: Greenhouse style sauna inspiration from NorthUp in Minneapolis. Clear polycarbonate roofing. Same material It's rated to over 550f. to melt it. The material let's the light in. There is a greenhouse effect with clear polycarbonate as roofing. On sunny Atlanta days, it's about 120f. before lighting to the stove. Sauna stoves: 13 large Kuumas. oven for every 200 sf. Prototype: 200 sf sauna 20'x10′. A great way of testing the temperature of things. How the size of the panels. Final dimensions of the world's largest sauna 65′ x 45′ with extra 200 – 400′ square feet entry and exit. Exercising your immune system Running and Sauna.. they go hand in hand.

Today on the virtual sauna bench, i'm pleased to bring you Sauna Talk: Emma O'Kelly, author of the new book Sauna: The Power of Deep Heat. We join Emma from her home in North London. And, we hear from Emma how the idea for this book was seeded through the pandemic. Plus, how the health benefits of sauna helped make the book happen. In the book, Emma does a great job outlining the reported health benefits of sauna, and we touch upon a few of these during our interview. You wil be transported to how Emma and photographer Maija Astikainen became fast friends, collaborators, and travel partners through the Nordic regions of Europe. Sauna: The Power of Deep Heat is shipping starting mid September. Pre orders are available now via Amazon and Barnes & Noble. Editor's note During Sauna Talk: Emma O'Kelly, we need to dive deeper into Sauna Brain! What it is and why it's good, but I forgot where I left my towel and water bottle. Glenn's notes I found myself reaching for a pen many times while reading this new book! So, a few excerpts and notes include: Health Benefits: Good reasons to roast Sweat “Sauna makes us sweat which is a good gym work out for the organs and the blood vessels,” says Hans Hägglund MD, PhD, a medical doctor and professor at Uppsala University in Sweden. Sauna Detox We produce about 0.5kg of sweat in a 30-minute sauna, and while around 97 per cent of this is water, studies have shown that some toxins and heavy metals are excreted too, and sweat does this more effectively than urine. Good Stress Hormetic stress is “good stress”. Things like jumping in a cold pond, or competing in a marathon, or making a really complicated cake are examples of good stress. Temperatures of around 38°C to 40°C stimulate the immune system A few other sauna health benefits from our Sauna Talk: Emma O'Kelly Inflammation Charles Raison MD, professor of psychiatry at the University of Wisconsin-Madison (USA), is an active proponent of this theory. “Since the 1980s, we have known that depressed people are hotter and find it harder to sweat,” he says. Plus, “The pathways that control our ability to cool off overlap with pathways that regulate our mood. Body temperature and mood are directly linked.” Pain relief Because blood vessels relax and dilate in a sauna and blood flow increases to muscles and joints which can in turn alleviate pain and stiffness. What's more, sauna causes levels of beta-endorphins – important pain relievers – to rise. So, for those living with pain for which there is no cure, such as rheumatoid arthritis, regular sauna sessions can provide immense relief. Immunity Because blood vessels relax and dilate in a sauna and blood flow increases to muscles and joints which can in turn alleviate pain and stiffness. What's more, sauna causes levels of beta-endorphins – important pain relievers – to rise. For those living with pain for which there is no cure, such as rheumatoid arthritis, regular sauna sessions can provide immense relief. Blood Pressure Laukkanen's seminal study found that those who took sauna baths four to seven times a week cut their risk of high blood pressure by almost half compared to once-a-week sauna bathers. Why? Well, the most common theory is that the increase in body temperature during sauna causes blood vessels to dilate, which can increase blood flow and improve the function of the endothelium – the tissue that lines the inside of blood vessels. “Nature teaches more than she preaches. There are no sermons in stones. It is easier to get a spark out of a stone than a moral.” John Burroughs, The Writings of John Burroughs, 1913

Today on the global sauna bench, we Sauna Talk with Mikkel Aaland from inside and just back from war torn Ukraine. Introduction from Minnesota Before we dive into this episode, I'd like to paint a picture of where I am sitting and what i'm thinking about. I am speaking to you while sitting on my deck at our island cabin in Northern Minnesota. I can see about 8 miles to the East, along a shoreline dotted with islands and outcroppings of birch and pine. It's a crystal clear day with light puffy clouds across the horizon. I'm in shorts, barefoot, and have just immersed myself from a cool morning swim. Random cold exposure being that much more effective than deliberate. There are no airplanes overhead. The aura is of calm and peace. To my right, 25 or so steps down a walkway through the woods, sits our cabin sauna that we built in 1996. Original stove. Original design, it's been my thermal tranquil oasis for decades. It exudes spiritual patina. Those of you with your own saunas know what i'm talking about. In sauna we are transformed with peace and tranquility. I recently turned 60. I am scaling down my professional career in the food industry. Gratefully, I am free from contractual bullshit in the sauna industry. I get to work with who I like, and most all of us are really cool, thoughtful, conscious people. I am feeling mighty blessed, and in times like these, sitting quietly on the sauna bench or on the dock between sauna rounds, If i listen quietly enough, i can hear soft voices of people, even half way around the world, miles less fortunate. Can you listen quietly enough to hear their voices? And speaking of really cool, thoughtful, conscious people, I'd like to reintroduce to you Mikkel Aaland. Let's have Mikkel help us hear these voices. Mikkel from Ukraine: three time Sauna Talk guest It's hard to put into words the respect and appreciation I have for Mikkel. With this episode, he has become a third time guest to the Sauna Talk podcast, outnumbering most all others by two. It's a lot of Sauna Talk. Yet Mikkel, to me, brings Sauna Talk up a notch. Where many see a crescent, Mikkel sees the whole of the moon. During our July 2016 podcast, we discuss his iconic book Sweat. On our September 2020 podcast, during sauna and the time of Corona, we discuss his Perfect Sweat Documentary project. And now today, you will hear in Mikkel's voice how Ukrainians are dealing with the invasion of their country from within Ukraine. This is his third trip into Ukraine since the invasion. And with each trip, Mikkel is facilitating bringing a sauna with him to the war torn country of Ukraine. But this Sauna Talk with Mikkel Aaland episode isn't a downer. I promise you. You will hear about the wonderfulness of what sauna is bringing to the people of Ukraine. And we sauna enthusiasts can put two and two together to get an idea what sauna can do for people in distress. I get choked up during this interview, and that's what sauna can do for us. Like many of us, we can take a lot of good löyly, but our edges can be soft. I don't know about you, but when I read and hear about the sacrifices and perils happening with the people in Ukraine, I get very bummed out. Can we do something is a valid question. And I'm happy to report, Mikkel Aaland is doing a lot more than just something. Sauna-Aid Yes, Sauna-Aid!  Mikkel is quick to compliment many others, yet he is leading the charge on behalf of Sauna Aid, a multinational initiative sponsored by the International Sauna Association. This is a beautiful story of the magic of sauna. The power of sauna as community, therapy, healing, comradeship, wellness, mindfulness, peace. So many great attributes, let's hear it from the words of Mikkel Aaland.

Today on the virtual sauna bench, we Sauna Talk with Jackie from Cedar Grove Saunas in Northern Maine. Jackie is just back from her sif week sauna pilgrimage to four countries in Northern Europe. Jackie has built her own saunas, and is four years into hosting guests traveling far and wide to Cedar Grove Saunas. We are kindred spirits of good heat. We share an interest and passion towards the Latvian Pirtus tradition, spearheaded by Biruté and Rimus from the Lithuanian Bath Academy. Are you interested in bringing plants and herbs into your sauna practice? Jackie helps us better understand this tradition. Sauna in Nature is bigger than all of us. And thanks to Jackie, we get to hear her voice and values of how she is bringing this spirit forward. After hearing about mobile saunas Jackie got the idea to start a business and build another sauna to bring to others. She set off in 2019 to convert a horse trailer into a sauna but it wasn't easy or quick. Jackie's high standard of quality, initial lack of carpentry skills, and the trailer's unique challenges (such as all the rounded corners) conspired to extend the build beyond the limits of her patience. Suddenly she wondered whether other people would pay to use her backyard sauna. However, a spa was born. BONUS: We begin this podcast with a few brief words from my sauna bench, last night. Friends and neighbors from age 8 to 84 share a couple thoughts to warm your sauna spirit.

Today on the virtual Sauna Talk bench, we join Marishi Morchida 持田 摩利支, from the Japan Sauna Institute 日本サウナ総研. Marishi joins us from his apartment in Washington, DC. During this episode, we learn about the active Japan sauna culture. How thermal bathing is intertwined into Japanese culture. You'll learn some key differences between Japanese sauna culture vs. North American in particular. Like many of us, Marishi is a serious sauna enthusiast. Not so much frown serious, but super into it passionate serious. Marishi shared with me that he was a bit nervous to be on Sauna Talk, but I think you'll agree, he comes off just fine.. as if we were right there on the sauna bench… with you! Link to the 2021 Japan Sauna Institute survey is here. Hi Marishi, welcome to Sauna Talk.  Please share with us where you are from, where you are now, and what you are doing where you are now.  I am originally from Japan. I was born and raised in a city called Hiroshima, then I moved to Tokyo for my undergraduate studies. After college, I worked in Tokyo for several years, and that's where I fell in love with the public bathing culture of Japan. People say that Tokyo's population density is one of the highest in the world, but what they don't realize is that Tokyo's public bathing density is also one of the highest. I don't have any data to back this up, but I've visited many major cities in the world, including Beijing, NY, Singapore, and Tokyo is definitely a bathing paradise. Anyway, that's where I fell in love with public baths, and that's where I fell in love with saunas. After working in Tokyo for 5 years, I wanted to continue my education in the US, so I moved to Chicago to get my MBA. I graduated last year and am now based in Northern Virginia. Tell us more about your “day job.” I work for a company called Capital One, which is a large financial institution that focuses on the credit card business. What's interesting and scary about the credit card business is that everything you do with your card is captured and stored as data.  I analyze that transaction data and come up with a plan to improve our products or improve our strategy. “Customers don't like the rebate percentage on this product”, let's change it. “Customers in the construction industry turn out to be the best fit for our product”, let's talk to them more. That's my day job. Sauna. I sense it is an important part of your life, as well. When did you first become exposed to sauna and describe the type of sauna to which you've been exposed ? I also feel that sauna is an important part of life! I can't even remember my first encounter with a sauna. It was when I was a small child, and my father and mother were both big fans of hot springs. We visit the local public bath like every month, and when our family plans a family trip, they almost always make sure that the place we're staying at has a high-quality bath for customers. Most public baths and hotels in Japan have saunas, and I just followed my father. It was not until I started working that I really saw the value and power that sauna has. This is just my personal opinion, but suffering and anguish improve your sauna experience.  When I joined a company, I was just a stupid kid who didn't know how to talk to my boss properly. This is really a big problem because I was working in a big Japanese company with a long history and hierarchical structure, and my boss often picked up my words and scolded me.  I woke up every morning around 5:30 a.m. and worked until 10 to 11 p.m., and when I went home, it was usually midnight. During this period of my life, the sauna helped me a lot. Every day after work, I would go to a gym and just go into the sauna without exercising. I just did nothing there. I would just relax without thinking about my work, enjoy the sauna and cold shower, and then go home. I'm very sure that without the sauna, my life would have been much more miserable.  As for the type of sauna, I do everything. I like electronic sauna. Traditionally, many saunas in Japan are extremely dry, but lately more and more places have more humid, Finnish style sauna too, I like it. I used to go to Russian banya in Chicago and I loved it too. Now that you are in the US, you have a special perspective of sauna in two different countries. Two different continents. Please share with us your observations about similarities and differences of sauna in US vs sauna in Japan.  It's so different, the only similarity I've found is that a sauna is a sauna. Both countries have many electrically heated saunas. That's where the similarities end.  One big difference I have noticed is where people enjoy saunas. For many people in the US, correct me if I'm wrong, but sauna is something you enjoy at home. Or at least a gym or membership club, a place that only a limited number of people have access to. So when I go to a sauna subreddit, people are almost always discussing what saunas to buy instead of what sauna to go to.  In Japan, saunas are a major form of entertainment, regardless of gender or age. Public saunas are everywhere, and you just invite your friends, co-workers, or family members to go together. Let's be naked, enjoy the sauna and drink good sake or beer, that's how we deepen the connection with people.  Another thing is silence. In Japan, you're expected to be quiet in the sauna, and in many spas you can actually see posters that say you have to refrain from talking. But in the U.S., not just in the sauna, it's very common to make small talk with someone you don't know, right? At first I wanted to concentrate on the sauna experience itself, but now I really enjoy talking to people I meet in the sauna. The Japan Sauna Institute. How did you personally become involved. Give us a history of the organization and your involvement.  Japan Sauna Institute was established in 2015. It was started as the first research institute focusing on sauna. We're also different from other similar organizations in Japan in that our members are just ordinary sauna users while other organizations are mostly operated by companies. We aim to provide insights from user's perspective, and conduct various studies regarding the sauna industry in Japan.  I joined the Japan Sauna Institute in 2021, and it was just a coincidence. When I was doing my MBA, I wanted to study data science. I talked to one of my friends, and he said that if you want to study data science, the best way to learn it is to actually write a script to find out something you're interested in.  I was into saunas, so I thought it would be a good idea to analyze sauna data with Python.  So I scraped data about saunas from all the public baths from some websites, created a big data set, and just played with it. I analyzed the data to find out things like the best temperature of the sauna room, the best temperature of the cold plunge, which district in Tokyo offers the best access to the best saunas. At first, I just wrote an article on my personal blog, but at some point I thought it would be great if I could work with like-minded people, so I googled to see if there were any organizations doing research on saunas. I found the Japan Sauna Research Institute, I e-mailed them, sharing a link to my blog and that I would like to collaborate with them, then Tachibana, the head of the institute, told me that I should just join the institute. The sauna study. This isn't your first one. Tell us about it's history and how you organize the study, how many participants etc. who they are. How you find them.  We started the Japan Sauna Survey in 2016, with the aim to provide quantitative data and analysis on the sauna market in Japan. I suppose this is the same in other countries, but the sauna and spa market is very fragmented, and the vast majority of them are not small companies. What this means is that there is not much public data provided by companies and as a result people only talk about sauna based on their perceptions. That's why we thought it was important to provide companies in the industry and sauna enthusiasts with a broad overview of the market. Since then, the Japan Sauna Survey has become our annual work, and especially after Covid, it has become an important health checkup for the industry. The good news of the latest survey is that we have seen a solid rebound in the sauna population after the decline due to Covid in 2021. The study, and I will publish it in the show notes, reveals some very interesting data. What couple few things stand out to you in the study results ? One thing I would like to point out is that the sauna population is on the rise again. As everyone knows, the Covid 19 pandemic was terrible, but it really took a toll on the sauna industry in Japan. Japan is one of the fastest aging countries in the world, and people are generally very conservative, and many people stopped going to the sauna. Some cities, including Tokyo and Osaka, enforced a lockdown, so literally public baths in those places were forced to close, which was a huge blow to that business because you still have to pay utilities, you still have to pay rent, all those kinds of costs. The population of casual sauna-goers, which we call “light sauna-goers,” is still much smaller than it was before Coverid. It's about 8.5 million now and it was about 15 million before covid, but the medium and heavy sauners, people who go more than once a month, have actually recovered almost to pre-covid levels. Let's talk about sauna bathing in Japan. One of the aspects that I respect and appreciate is no jankification in the cold plunge. What do sauna bathers do after exiting the hot room and before entering the cold plunge ? For many sauna enthusiasts in Japan, the cold plunge water is sacred. You have to make sure you either take a shower or do kakemizu, which means scooping water with a small basin and washing away the sweat before using the cold plunge.  I think this custom has its roots in the hot spring culture of Japan. People are expected to wash their body or do kakemizu before using the hot spring bath, and we have to do the same for the cold plunge. Electric vs wood fired? Personally, I like wood-fired saunas a lot, but unfortunately, there aren't many public saunas that have wood-fired saunas. Sauna tents? I have no experience with sauna tents. What a shame! Back to you and sauna. How would you describe good heat ? Back in Japan, when I was still new to sauna, one of my friends told me that good sauna or good heat makes you sweat, and that's the definition of good heat for me as well. Personally, I like hot sauna with higher than 200 degrees Fahrenheit, relatively humid, and the heat should be dispersed and evenly distributed in the room. In short, I like hot, humid, sweaty heat.  Are Americans f***ed up (I'm kidding! Am I?) I don't think so, America is a great country.  It is a land of opportunity and I really enjoy the amount of personal freedom I can never have in Japan. The only thing I would like to say to the USA is that there should be more public bathhouses in the USA.  I really wonder why there are not many public bathhouses in the US. I've been to Russian and Korean spas in Chicago, NY, DC and every time I go I have such a wonderful time. I think part of the sauna experience is meditation. Just focusing on the heat and your body, away from all the outside stimuli from friends or smartphones. In the last decade, meditation has become a big part of many professionals in the US and I think sauna has a great appeal to this segment of the population. If you could have a mobile sauna and bring it anywhere in the world, where would you like to go and enjoy a sauna session? I'm a big baseball fan, so I would like to take it to a baseball stadium and watch baseball while taking a sauna.  I'm not necessarily a big fan of this, and you probably won't like this idea either, but a lot of saunas in Japan have televisions in them. Normally, people don't care too much about it, but whenever there is a big sports game, the sauna room has a strange sense of unity. I would like to have a similar but more real experience by bringing my mobile sauna to a baseball stadium. If you could sauna with anyone in the world, dead or alive, past or present, who would you choose? I honestly don't have a person's name, but if I had to answer, I would say people who have ever said no to my invitation to go to the sauna. When I was doing my MBA in Chicago, I invited many people to go to the sauna together, and some people said, “No, I'm not interested. I don't understand”. I really feel for them, they should at least try it once and then they can judge if it is for them or not. So when I have a change, I want to take those people to the sauna and see their reactions.  When you know it is going to be a sauna day for you, from the morning of anticipating sauna, to going to sauna, maybe the preparing and lighting of the stove, the first heat up, the first splash of löyly, the first cool down, second, and on, all the way through to going to sleep at night, what is your most favorite moment if you had to pick, one of your favorite moments of sauna?  This is an interesting and difficult one. I love every part of my sauna experience, from the anticipation to going to bed that day and having the best sleep. If I have to choose one, I like drinking beer with my close friends after 5 sauna sessions. Sauna is the best spice for food and the best spice for creating a bond with people. That's my favorite part. What do you think is most misunderstood about sauna, that you would like others less familiar with sauna to know and better understand? Some people in Japan treat sauna as a kind of mental and physical training. It's so hot and uncomfortable, but if you can endure this difficulty for 5 minutes, you'll be fine and healthier. I think they're missing the essence of sauna. Sauna is comfortable. You don't have to stay there for a certain amount of time, you can get out whenever you want and take a cold shower or jump into the cold water to cool down.

Today from many of the 12 or so sauna benches, we hear from guests attending Sauna Days 2023 at Larsmont Cottages, Two Harbors, Minnesota. The stories are from their hearts. We get to tap into their motivations and ambitions to make their way to Northern Minnesota for the third Sauna Days festival this early chilly May weekend. Though upwards of 200 people were in attendance, we hear from a fraction of the attendees. Most were on other benches or experiencing the world's largest cold plunge in Lake Superior. Yet with the voices on this episode, you'll be able to get an on the spot perspective of what Sauna Days is all about. I'll take a moment to set the scene. Larsmont Cottage is an upscale resort along the shores of Lake Superior, along the rocky North Shore North of Duluth Minnesota, and South of Canada. If you're looking for peace and tranquility or a launch pad for North Shore adventures but not your typical hotel — our cottages on Lake Superior are a place to celebrate the immense beauty and scale of our planet's greatest lake. Tucked away in 40 acres of private woods south of Two Harbors, this location combines a Northwoods experience with 1,300 feet of beachfront shoreline. – Larsmont Cottages.com So, imagine a Larsmont Cottages sauna take over, and you've got a picture of Sauna Days. I'll keep this introduction nice and short, and will leave you with this final thought of consideration. Does sauna bring out the best in people or does sauna bring out the best people. Maybe it's a lot of both. But whatever the case, judging from the smiles, laughter, and community spirit, Sauna Days was a joyful experience. At checkout on Sunday, many were signing up for Sauna Days 2024. I caught more than a few guests walking the grounds, sizing up their favorite lakeside cottage to commit back to the front desk. Hope you enjoy this episode, and I hope to see you at Sauna Days 2024. For more on Sauna Days 2023, please check the review here.

Today on the bench, we are joined with David Dragseth, Lutheran paster and CEO of Superior Saunas. Let's consider for a moment, the Venn Diagram overlap of A: Lutheran Pastors and B: Sauna business CEOs. To my knowledge, the overlap is a body of one: David Dragseth. Also of note, if we consider the Venn Diagram overlap of A: Lutheran Pastors and B: Guests to the podcast Sauna Talk, well, i'm happy to report that David Dragseth is joined with Lutheran Pastor Dave Pearson. For those looking for some good spiritual sauna continuity, I encourage you to have a listen to both of these podcast episodes. David and Glenn Sauna Talk David and I were together on my Minneapolis sauna bench recently. We enjoyed sauna and then communing in urban nature, relaxing between rounds on my sauna deck, outdoor shower and cold plunge adjacent. A wood burning sauna and a sauna deck in the rain are perfect backdrops for me to have David expand upon some of his Venn Diagram overlap of religion and sauna as a religion. You could say that if Jesus grew up in a Nordic country, he may have been a sauna builder. We'll never know, but we do know that David and I are both sauna builders, which is just the beginning of our Venn Diagram overlap. David fell naturally into the world of sauna building and the sauna business. In this episode, we learn about David's sabbatical to Finland, and being impressed and influenced by Finnish confirmation camps. Could there be a place in North America for similar camps? We talk about one of my favorite subjects: the spiritual connection of sauna, as both a noun and a verb. We talk about his business Superior Saunas. How it came into his life, and now, how it is a big part of his life. Without further ramblings, please welcome David Dragseth to Sauna Talk.

Today on the Sauna Talk bench, we visit with Anya and Dan Bondarenko from the Banya House. Dan is Latvian, with Ukrainian family heritage. Anya is 100% Ukrainian. Her town has been completely destroyed from the Putin invasion. Anya is a nutritionist, with a focus on plant medicine. We gather in their outdoor backyard sauna….. er.. banya. The Banya House, Prior Lake, Minnesota. The design, size, and structure is comparable to the 612 Sauna Society Sauna, a sauna that I had a big hand in building. So, I was very comfortable in the Banya House. The heat is kick ass, as is the spiritual patina, as is the fabulous Latvian style pirtis venik treatment. In this episode, we learn the difference between sauna and banya. The answer? Spoiler alert: it's not that different! That said, we detail the nuances. And the difference lies within the two biggest measures of hot room climate: temperature and humidity. Where some orthodox sauna preachers claim the importance of tall ceilings and the löyly pocket, we get a very different approach of good hot room climate with Dan and Anya. Sauna in nature is bigger than all of us. And with banya, we bring nature into the banya. Nature plays a big part in Slavic banya. Essences, teas, vennik / whisks are all front forward with banya climate and culture.

Today on the sauna bench we sit with Brian who is perhaps the most researched yet least experienced sauna aficionado in the world. Connecting through consulting services One of the things I do in the world of sauna is offer consultation services. I don't offer this service to make money, but more to help others realize their authentic sauna dreams. And the other reason is that though I do love to help, my entire day may get sucked up by answering questions and helping guide. I get to meet some great people through SaunaTimes consultations. And today you will hear from one of them: Brian from Austin, Texas (last name withheld as he is on witness relocation program). Brian and I had a SaunaTimes consultation session. Then he came back with several additional sauna questions. And many of them were what I call “400 level thinking.” These consultations are often like tennis for me, where the harder the ball gets hit in my court, the harder I hit it back in the client's court. I found myself engaged in long volleys with Brian. The more he researched, the more engaged I became with our dialogue. Which way the sauna wind blows Bob Dylan rightfully says that “you don't have to be a weatherman to know which way the wind blows.” For when we feel good heat, it's all over. So why should we listen to a guy who has done nothing but research about sauna, without much sitting on the sauna bench? Well, I'll tell you why. Brian's approach to his own backyard sauna is fresh. He has an uncanny ability to process information from multiple sources. Brian applies data points without prejudice. He can smell BS and can sift through pedantic chatter. Brian is a weatherman who has figured out which way the sauna wind blows. We dive into the holy trinity of good sauna (heat, steam, ventilation). You'll hear about his evolution from barrel saunas to kit saunas. How he graduated away from a custom sauna build in his backyard, and also away from hiring a local contractor in his area. You'll hear about his conclusions of ceiling height and ventilation. All spot on, my opinion. My 35 year 3x a weak multiple sauna build with my own hands experienced opinion. Our texts and emails went on and on Most people come to me after experiencing good sauna, and then are compelled to make it happen for themselves. Not Brian. Brian is admittedly very sauna inexperienced. But I dare say that he is one of the most researched sauna person I know. He attacked the project of his own backyard sauna with vigor and inexhaustible energy. I think you'll find his conclusions and choice for his own backyard sauna very interesting. We got to sauna recently during my own trip to Austin Texas, where I was on my own version of witness relocation program. A lot of good things come out of conversation on the sauna bench. I'm happy to report that this conversation is one of them. I'm pleased to present to you Brian, the world's most research least experienced sauna nut in the world. Final note, as of this podcast, Brian is now becoming more experienced. He's just taking delivery of his own backyard sauna, and is about to lose himself in his own thermal goodness. Three cheers to Brian, Thanks man, I've enjoyed getting to know you and playing sauna tennis!

Sauna Talk: Kirk Jensen is a host of a thousand saunas (and more). Kirk is one of the lead hosts at the 612 Sauna Society sauna, Minneapolis Minnesota USA. This episode may be especially interesting for those considering starting a sauna business. Or for those who have attended a “butts on the bench public sauna” and want to know more about how sauna host manages the comings and goings of sauna guests.

This episode was recorded in January 2023 from the Sauna Village, Malcolm Yards, Minneapolis Minnesota, as part of the Great Northern Festival. It was a cold well below freezing day outside. As the Saunapreneurs began firing up their sauna stoves outside, inside we were able to sit down and visit with Shaelyn and her brother Justus, and then David Dragseth, CEO of Superior Saunas. The history and brain child of a Sauna Village in Minneapolis goes back quite a few years. Subject for another podcast for another day, but in summary, the serendipity meeting of minds of Rod & JP from Stokeyard Outfitters, connecting with Eddie through commercial development, sharing the sauna heat with his wife Kate Nordstrom, the Executive and Artistic director of The Great Northern. During this episode, we learn about the idea, creation, and build of the Superior Sauna by the brother and sister team of Shaelyn and Justus Crutchery. Like so many sauna builds, this one was more than just a sauna build, it also fostered as a rebuilding of a special brother sister bond. The sauna was sponsored by David Dragseth, former Lutheran paster and now Superior Sauna CEO. I'll keep this introduction short, and I encourage you to check out the photos of the Superior Sauna event sauna here on SaunaTimes. Three wood stoves, a swing, some great design with clear consciousness towards to the holy trinity of good sauna: heat, steam, ventilation.

Today on Sauna Talk, we are pleased to welcome Bruce Oreck, who joins us from his off grid home in Baja Mexico. During this episode, we talk about sauna, Finnish sauna, and his experiences being hosted and welcomed by Finns all over the country. As US Ambassador to Finland during the Obama administration, his tenure was unique in that he served for a long period, from 2009 – 2015, which he says with a wink “was made possible because when they called from Washington looking for me, I told my secretary to tell them that I was out of my office.” While in Finland, Bruce became enamored with all things sauna, and especially the smoke sauna (savusauna) the traditional, revered style of sauna going back centuries., where the fire is open inside the sauna building, heating rocks directly for hours. Let's hear from Bruce as we share his love for Finland and good sauna.   This is such a great episode! Bruce is very well spoken, as you can imagine. He lets us in behind the curtain as to what US ambassadorship is all about. He shares from an American perspective what it's like to live in Finland. I have lost count with the number of people who have gotten into sauna, really good authentic sauna, from their time in Finland.

Today on Sauna Talk, we are joined by several different summer guests to my island cabin sauna in Northern Minnesota. This episode features guests from literally all over the world who have all found themselves on my sauna bench which I co built in 1996 and is still humming along strong. The sauna is 3.5 hours North of Minneapolis, MN close to the Boundary Waters Canoe area on Lake Vermilion, one of the largest lakes in Minnesota. Stretching 26 miles East to West, our cabin sits on the largest of 365 islands, Pine Island. There are no roads or cars on 7 mile long Pine Island, but there are some hiking trails, and one of my fondest memories and routines of sauna on Pine Island is to fire up my sauna stove, then take an island hike, in nature, returning to pull the coals forward and maybe toss a sauna log on the stove. For many, this is where the resonating wonderfulness of sauna shines. In nature, detached from the business of day to day. Birds chirping, water lapping along the shore, long twilight evenings that transition slowly. When the thought of tossing another log on the sauna stove isn't a question, but something you just do (after pulling the coals forward). This is where and when we get full appreciation of the fact that Sauna in nature is bigger than all of us. Alex & John. “I've been coming here my whole life… Wood fired and great heat is what I love.” Becca & Garrett Lamppa. “My dad welded all the Kuuma stoves out of Lamppa Manufacturing until about 2017.” “Finnish culture is very close to home.” Bill & Ingrid. “The fist thing we did is start planning for our backyard sauna.” “We are enjoying our sauna and still working on our sauna.” Lee Sarkela. “My memory of sauna goes back to splashing in the bucket on the floor as a young child.” Petri Leivonen & Mike Tuttle. Scott Gallis & Family from Brazil. “Where you are at is where you are able to enjoy it the most. In sauna, friendships are forget. People are able to get on the same vibration and welcome peace.”

Today's Sauna Talk podcast episode is with Lewis Jenkinson, who shares with us his heart and soul of good sauna. Today on the bench we welcome Lewis Jenkinson from the absolute midpoint of England, just North of Manchester. With the rise in interest of sauna – real sauna – (not lightbulbs, toaster ovens, or other minimally ventilated fragmentations), it's interesting to learn how others have become impassioned with and driven towards advancing the authentic sauna experience in their lives. It's a simple formula, really. And In Lewis' case, his drive towards authentic sauna was propelled through his resonating positivity of contrast therapy. We'll hear his journey while marshal arts training, then cold immersion therapy, and onto the sauna bench. Lewis's unfulfilling sauna experience at the gym sauna, heated by a toaster oven with 9 rocks and terrible ventilation, has driven him deep into the depths of discovery into the authentic, quality sauna experience. Many of us curious enough can become knowledgeable about good sauna and are in clear understanding of the Holy Trinity of good sauna (heat, steam, ventilation). And Lewis is right there with us, a kindred spirit of good heat. Sauna Talk topics for discussion Trip to Germany – oh boy this way incredible. We get to hear about his Therma Erding, the World's largest spa, just outside Munich, Germany. History with Sauna, getting hooked and mental wellbeing – started martial arts, diet and exercise. Moved on to cold water and breathing, finally discovered sauna. All my adult life has unknowingly been searching for powerful ways to reduce symptoms of stress, anxiety and Insomnia. I was later diagnosed with Aspergers and ADHD which made total sense. Cedar Sauna Company – Knew I needed my own sauna so started a mobile sauna company to share with the UK but then began to import and build barrels from Russia. Realized not to rely on imports and studied sauna construction. Company enquiries are flooding in and the company is going from strength to strength quite rapidly. Sauna in the UK – the scene is growing quickly. There is a huge rise in mobile sauna businesses and I manage a What's App group with my friend which was created to help mobile sauna entrepreneurs set up and run their own business through sharing information with other businesses owners. In true British fashion, the UK seems to be moulding it's own sauna culture taken from cultures all over the world including Russian, Finnish, Estonian, Lithuanian and German styles. What is good heat – manageable and breathable. A heat which initially seems mild but creeps up on you almost imperceptibly, sending your heart rate higher and higher until you have to leave. A cold plunge is essential and the thought of which helps me to keep with the heat a little longer. Recurring Sauna Talk questions Mobile sauna anywhere in the world – someone already said space which would be serene but I'm gonna go with a winter riverside landscape with lots of people. Everyone would be invited to strip off and enjoy the sweat. Sauna with anyone – my grandfather. He was a stoker for the navy so I recon he would have taken to sauna quite easily. Favourite sauna moment – cold plunge, before or after. This is where the world goes quiet for me. My normally racing thoughts go quiet and it feels like pure serenity. Sauna helps me to spend longer meditating in the cold. What is most misunderstood about sauna – that it is intense. It shouldn't be. It should feel as relaxing as a warm bath on a cold day.

Today on Sauna Talk, we meet with photographer George Cory, who is documenting the British sauna movement. George Cory is reporting in from Folkestone on the Southeast Coast of England. He is a current master's student studying photography and is an avid sauna enthusiast. We catch up with George in his hometown in Great Britain. He is one of the first photographers in the UK to immerse himself in this emerging culture and has so far documented the owners, builders, and users of authentic saunas in the UK. Reflecting the passion of those involved, George takes the opportunity to express the importance of sauna culture. He shares in imagery and dedication how these values are being adopted in Britain. During our visit, you'll get to hear from George about the exhibition of his photo project ‘Löyly Life' in his hometown of Folkestone from Monday 15th – Saturday 20th August. The exhibition will also be the launch for a small run of books created that feature the project. The book includes foreword from sauna owner Sam Glyn-Jones and Q&A with Heartwood Saunas founder Olly Davey. British Air offers several non stop flights from North America to Britain, but if you can't make it to the exhibition but would like to secure a copy of the book, please message George on Instagram @georgecory_ . The photo books are priced at £15 (free shipping unless international)!

Greetings from Sompasauna in Helsinki. Today we visit with Yana who takes us through her deep connection to sauna, from Aufguss at the large public saunas in Germany, to the Danish Sauna Association, and now with her employment with Studio Puisto, a Helsinki based architectural firm that focuses on sustainable hospitality and sauna design. Here we have a look at their new commercial sauna project Saunaravintola, Northeast of Tampere, Finland. Sompasauna To be able to Sauna Talk is one thing, and to be able to Sauna Talk on the bench is another. And today, it was a treat to be Sauna Talk with Yana by the shores of the brackish Baltic Sea at Sompasauna, the world's only free public sauna open to all at any time day or night. Sauna Aid Yana shares with us the origins of Sauna-Aid, and her involvement with the initiative. The brainchild behind it, and the relationship with the organizations like the International Sauna Association.* Yana introduced herself to me at this year's World Sauna Forum in Tampere, Finland, along with Heikki Riitahuhta, Partner with Studio Puisto. We later met up for sauna in Helsinki. Hearing her story compelled me to bring out the recorder, and share her love and passion with you. Yana is part of a young generation of sauna enthusiasts. And, like many of us, Yana is motivated to more than just enjoy time on the sauna bench. Sauna-Aid Participating organizations: Japan Sauna Spa Association, Lithuanian Bath Academy, Association of Professional Bathmasters, British Sauna Society, Finnish Sauna Society, Polish Sauna Society, German Sauna Association, Norwegian Sauna Society, Danish Sauna Association, Finnish Embassy in Poland, North American Sauna Society, Swedish Sauna Academy, New Zealand Sauna Society, The Australian Sweat Bathing Association, Finnland-Institut Berlin, Austrian Sauna Society, and the Czech Sauna Association.  (More organizations to follow.)

Today on the bench we hear from several guests attending Sauna Days 2022 at Larsmont Cottages. What a great time we had, sharing our collective and individual passions about sauna. We came from all over, but are united in spirit! Let's here from: 1. Katy, Sisu & Löyly, Grand Rapids, MN. Who has a sauna by the Lake Superior shoreline, build and converted from an old Fish House on site. 2. Eric, Voyageur Saunas. A big fan of the sauna tribe, and sauna builder from Twin Cities, Minnesota. 3. Dan from the The Banya House in Burnsville, Minnesota. 4. Alex from Bsaunas USA. He initially won the Eric Conover Sauna Magic book. as he traveled all the way from Buffalo, NY. 5. Keegan Kittock, Deep Wave Sauna. Building saunas for several years. Meeting new people who share the same passions, with like minded people. 6. Justin, Cedar & Stone Nordic Sauna. “Our world right now is starving for connection… Almost every single time, sauna is the best way to relieve stress.” New people who have never heard about sauna are coming to sauna. We are drawing on tradition. We get to create together and be part of a community.” In Duluth, access to trails are only 1/4 mile away. Nature is right next to us in 218. Justin doesn't own and run a sauna company, he owns and runs a stress destroying company. 7. Meinrad Signer saunameinrat.com. Manitoba. Sauna rental or group sauna guide. We are living in a climate very similar to Finland and the Baltic states. A lot of his customers are Russian born. 8. Tom Carlson, a Sauna Map Champion from Madison Wisconsin. 9. Darin Mays, Urban Wing Co. Sauna confessions. I'd be in the hot room, and Darin in the cool down room, during Covid. Urban Wing sells patented designed sauna vents. Sleek, clear cedar. Part of a morning dip Sunrise dip into Lake Superior. We adapted the Mindstrong Harvey 5/15. 10. Nick from Arizona. Surprised his wife that Sauna Days is his gift for his wife for Mother's Day. 11. Andrea and Art, unwind-body-mind.com Spa wellness center in Wisconsin. “Sauna brings what is real.” More meaning and connection. We can serve a lot of people with sauna. 12. Beau, Ben from Hayward, Wisconsin. Beau is starting a sauna rental and sales business in Hayward, WI. 13. Jean, up for the community and experience. Bringing friends in, like Kate. “when you love something, you bring it to the one's you love.” Let's go Sauna!

Dr. Jonathan Bricker is a Professor of Public Health Science at the Fred Hutchinson Cancer Center and University of Washington in Seattle. A recipient of over $25 million dollars in research funding, and author of over 110 scientific publications, Dr. Bricker's research focuses on developing and testing health habits that prevent cancer. He has been enjoying sauna since his first exposure in 1991 as an exchange student in Oulu, Finland. He now enjoys his backyard sauna which he constructed with his family and friends. It's always a great treat to Sauna Talk on the sauna bench, as opposed to via Zoom, as was the case with many previous episodes during Corona. But today, Jonathan and I were able to sweat it out together in my Minneapolis backyard sauna. As you will hear, Jonathan was in town to visit a studio film set to record a master class on how to quit smoking. In the SaunaTimes post introducing this podcast episode, you'll find a link to Jonathan's Bricker's 2014 Ted Talk entitled “The Secret to Self Control” which, by the way, has over 7 million views. We discuss “willingness” and its association and application to sauna and contrast therapy.

Why are there no saunas in elderly homes?” “I work with infrared, but it is more of a treatment… Infrared is not connected to the Norwegian culture of badstu (sauna).” Today on Sauna Talk, we visit with Lasse Erikson, reporting in from the outskirts of Oslo, Norway. Lasse is a Sweat enthusiast with a mission to bring more sauna and sweat experiences to the world. He is head of Norges Badstulaug, a Board member of International Sauna Association, and VP Aufguss WM group. Aufguss: “We are story tellers. That's who we are.” Listen to the steam. Feeling it. These are some of the tasks in which he loves to contribute.

“The feeling I get with wood fired (sauna) is so much deeper than any kind of heat I've every experienced. I feel human when I get out of a wood fired sauna.” Today on the sauna bench, we are joined by Mindstrong Harvey, founder, CEO, of The Mindstrong Project. Many of us may not have heard of the Mindstrong Project, but if you were a pro athlete talking about performance, breath work, contrast therapy, sauna, Wim Hof, or any combination of any of these, I can pretty much guarantee you that you would be well tuned to Harvey Martin and the Mindstrong Project. The thing is, Harvey is very humble and low key about his practice and his company. He, like many of my friends for some odd reason, fall into more of the camp of witness relocation program, vs. major social media marketers. And I can't speak for my other friends on the witness relocation program, but Mindstrong Harvey has good reason to be low key. The work he does with pro athletes is by reputation only. Harvey Martin's marketing is mainly his reputation And by extension, his marketing is defined by the proven performance measures from his clients. In a world where literally, every second counts, and where the slightest margin, the smallest incremental improvement in performance can mean playing in front of tens of thousands of people or sitting on the bench, from being signed to a big contract or relegated to the taxi squad, from being hero to .. i'm still trying… well, I don't know what your day job is, but to operate with that kind of pressure must require the upmost tuning, both mentally and physically. Pro athlete performance and wellbeing is the space where Mindstrong Harvey operates. Brick and Mortar – tree and lake location The Mindstrong Training the highest performing athletes in the world in nature. A training system outdoors. Physical movement, yoga, training, cold, sauna. “Wherever I go, sauna will be a part of my life.” Minnesota is way colder. Witness relocation program When you train professional athletes, they are on a level of celebrity. They have financial freedom and they are young. They don't have an opportunity to experience the build up. They go from 0 to 1 right away. Mindstrong Harvey is there to guide them. He has earned this level of respect within the small family of professional athletes. The athletes share Mindstrong Harvey with other athletes. A professional athlete lives so against nature. They travel, they fly, and when you can give them the most natural training environment, they appreciate simple systems. The connection with nature. Sauna in nature is bigger than all of us. A deep respect with Nature. Nature is the only system that can bring us to our own personal truth. Body adapting to the cold If you burn fuel too much, you become an emotionally reactive human. Limbic part of your brain The front of our brain, the pre frontal cortex is the rational part of our brain. n the cold, we are breathing less and Living in the front of our brains. You are training your physiology to train your psychology.

Please welcome Alex Blyashuk to the Sauna Talk podcast. Though sauna in Belarus is quite popular, Alex, a native of Belarus, didn't grow up with sauna (or banya as it is called in his home country) but discovered the Russian style sauna experience through several road trips from his hometown in Buffalo, NY up to Toronto, Canada. Alex and his buddies would pack up their car, often on Fridays, head over the Peace Bridge, through Fort Erie, Ontario and up the QE Parkway to experience the heat, steam, and venik treatment action at a public banya in Toronto. Alex's experiences at the Russian Banya in Toronto were formative. In our chat, you'll hear more about the venik treatments, their relaxations between hot room sessions, and how they'd try to stay awake driving back from Toronto to Buffalo afterwards. Alex's mobile sauna Alex constructed his first mobile sauna, in Eastern Europe tradition. Here we have a modified barrel concept where, instead of round, the walls are vertical, giving the interior space a more conventional feel, while at the same time rolling steam and “demassing the hot room” as many pros like to call it. During our chat, you will hear how deeply these banya experiences affected him. So much so, in fact, that Alex has pivoted his career to sauna full time. Alex is especially impassioned towards the venik steam tradition. To the unfamiliar, venik treatment involves administering an elaborate whisking procedure on a guest, as the lay on their back, and then rotating onto their front (or vice versa) while they lay on the sauna bench. My 88 year old mother partook in it as well. She was blown away by her venik treatment. Our venik treatment I have had venik treatments before, but never to this level. Alex is a pro, from start to finish. The venik treatment involves steam from the sauna stove, hot and cold water, some essences like eucalyptus (from the leaves themselves, never oils), and the key: several different whisks, which are bound branches of supple tree limbs of different species. The Venik treatment is different than the Finnish vahta primarily in that the Finns most often use the birch whisk on themselves, casually, while sitting on the bench. Sure, one may offer to wack a friend a few times, but nothing like what happens with “Dr. Alex” as his “patient” lies flat on the hot room bench. It's all trust, as Dr. Alex orchestrates the process. Steam, heat, ventilation.. a maestro of sensations. Dr Alex at the controls. First place This past summer, Alex traveled to Russia to compete in an international tournament for venik treatment instructors. He took first place in the amateur division. Master Kazan! The experience was other worldly. Alex was an expert in the process. He is completely tuned into the different species of tree limbs to create different veniks (or whisks), as well as bringing in the essences from nature, in a well thought out choreographed process. In this episode, you will get to know the features of the different tree species. Their qualities and nuances. Three's the charm I had many “take aways” from my venik treatment and our Sauna Talk podcast. One of them is how draining the treatment is for the giver. It's easy to lay flat on the sauna bench and take it, but it's another thing to stand in the hot room and administer the action. A sauna master is whipping around the veniks in the heat. Heart racing, blood pumping, sweat pouring. Often, Alex tells us, it's good to have three people on the program. One flat on the bench, one standing, administering, and another outside, on the on deck circle, waiting for a tag team from his partner, to hand off the wisks to the next guy. For many of us, sitting on the sauna bench is enough. For others, in the Latvian Pirts tradition, laying down on the bench and submitting to Alex's correographed venik treatment may be, as my Mom said, “just what the doctor ordered.” Please welcome Alex Blyashuk to Sauna Talk!

Today on Sauna Talk, we welcome a random, spontaneous, non rehearsed or edited collection of Finns, talking about sauna. I didn't make a big deal about this interview process. I simply approached a few Finns on the street today, in Helsinki. I didn't stick my microphone in people's faces, but tried to be respectful in approaching a few people who didn't seem to be hurried, or appeared to have an idle minute or two in their day. I'm happy to say that every guest I approached was kind and respectful to me. As you will hear, all were very open with me about talking about sauna and their life with sauna. Last time in Finland, in 2109, I interviewed 12 guests for Sauna Talk, all in one way shape or form connected to sauna. We had Jasper the Finnish actor and owner of löyly spa, We had Sauna Timo, and Kimmo Helistö, owner of two public saunas in Helsinki, and Jesse from Narvi, the folks from Harvia, Dr Jari Laukkanen, Satu and Carita from Sauna from Finland, just to name a few. Yet today, I'm warmed to bring you the voice and straight up Sauna Talk from these random guests. The intent of these interviews is to help share with you what sauna… authentic sauna… means to the people in Finland, the motherland of sauna. As sauna becomes more and more popular, I think and hope you agree that the integrity of sauna is becoming more and more important. The Finns, by nature, are understated and polite. Many have no idea how their word and tradition – sauna – is being adopted and dare I say “manipulated” for commerce, profit, and marginalization. So, the Finns are pure with their sauna practice. With over 3 million saunas in a land of 5 million people, Finns need not have to look over their shoulder with concern about any compromise to sauna. For example, a Finn would simply not relate to a sign saying “don't throw water on the rocks” or a marketing ploy to purchase a quote “infrared sauna” because the marginalization of the authentic does not exist here. What does exist in Finland is the ubiquity of fucking great sauna. And super nice people who share the love and appreciation of the practice. It's been said that the worst sauna in Finland is better than the best sauna in most other countries. This may be true, but what is true are the following words from Finns. Welcome to Finland. Welcome to sauna. Real sauna. Authentic sauna.

Today on the bench we welcome Jon Sabes to Sauna Talk. Jon is a successful entrepreneur, founding multiple companies in the health and insurance industries. Jon is a high performing athlete, completing several marathons and triathlons, events that just thinking about their rigor makes me want to hit the “no thanks” button and take the short tour to the sauna bench and cold plunge, and hear about the pain later. Foxo Technologies During our chat, we learn more about his current company, Foxo Technologies and their work in the scientific field of epigenetics. Epigenetics is cutting edge science that studies how our genes express due to lifestyle and environmental exposures.  Jon's using molecular level analysis and technology to change an insurance industry…and improve the health of its customers for the better!  Knowing how and why genes express healthy or unhealthy outcomes is going to empower people to make better lifestyle choices to extend their healthy longevity. Hormesis What's interesting, and not surprising, is that many/most of the leaders and scientists in the field of longevity are into sauna, and hot/cold therapy. Dr. David Sinclair, author of Lifespan, is one example. He digs sauna, just like Jon, you, and me. As it turns out, Hormesis, and the body stressors from temperature extremes, thermogenesis, is one of the impactful ways we can strengthen the healthy expression of our DNA – think of it like exercising your cells at a molecular level. Trigger our cellular muscles with sauna and cold, impacts our DNA expression in very positive ways. The Sauna Research Institute We talk briefly about the Sauna Research Institute and the early work in which SRI is engaged. Studies are in development. And Jon, as a Sauna Research Institute founding board member, will be helping advance research that will help us better understand why siting on the bench in our kick ass saunas, then immersing ourselves in cold water, followed by cool downs in Nature, then chilling out with a smile on our faces, and feeling so fucking awesome, has such a powerful impact on our health and wellbeing. We know why good sauna is good for us, and it is going to be very interesting to get a better understanding as to why. The Sabes Sauna Though he has built a very successful life for he and his family, Jon is also a deep thinker and philosopher. He keeps himself grounded, centered, and down to earth. He is deeply in tune to nature.  I am including a few photos from his Minneapolis, MN sauna. This one of several saunas in Jon's portfolio sits along the shores of his Lake Minnetonka property. We will look to share some photos of his other saunas, down the road. For now, here's The Sabes Sauna in action: The sauna building journey Jon shares with us more about the sauna building journey, how he and I collaborated to design what guests and sauna aficionados are calling “one of the nicest saunas in North America.” Jon smiles shyly with the compliment, yet takes more pleasure in its use, than its comparative ranking. As Mikkel Aaland is known to say: “the nicest saunas are the ones that get used,” I say that good heat is universal. It knows no difference of income or tax bracket. To sauna with Jon, you will experience him diving off his dock, after some pull ups between rounds, then returning from his lake cold plunge in a deep, calm, meditative stage, relaxing in any one of several chill out zones either finding himself outside the hot room, on the deck or the dock, or the zen garden to the left, or common area to the right of the sauna building. Snacks between rounds On a side note, Jon's sauna sessions are of duration familiar to many of us: at least a couple hours. During the times I have sauna'ed with him at his Lake Minnetonka sauna, Jon will bring down from his main house an assortment of fresh fruit, apples, grapes, and a wedge of cheese and some pretzel snacks. What's crazy is that this is the exact combo I often engage for my sauna sessions. There's something fitting about this combination. A few light grazing bites between rounds,  as we drink our mineral water, kombucha or a cold beer is a nice sauna compliment. Highly recommended! For more sauna culinary tips, please note here. I am especially pleased how during our Sauna Talk episode, Jon was able to outline a few guiding principles for the design of his sauna. And Finally, as you will hear, Jon boldly proclaims what sauna means to him: “sauna will always be an important part of my life.” Can you relate? Please welcome Jon Sabes to Sauna Talk.

Hi John, welcome to saunatimes. I thought I'd start by having you share how and when you first got started with the WHM and cold water exposure. Most of my life I've had a terrible relationship to the cold. I hated cold water and if it dropped below 60F I would bundle up like I was preparing for an Arctic adventure. In 2013, when a friend let me know about a Wim Hof workshop that was being held in Austin, all I saw was a picture of Wim sitting in a barrel of ice and though “No way!! Why would I pay money to go sit in ice water?!” My resistance was strong enough, however, that it made me curious, and I signed up. Those first two ice baths with Wim that weekend were miserable, but life-changing. The big issue with living in central Texas – a sub-tropical climate – is that cold water is not readily available. It wasn't until 3 years later after experiencing two years of brutal insomnia that I found the amazing benefits of a regular cold water practice. After spending thousands of dollars on various insomnia treatments from many different kinds of approaches and modalities – none of which provided any lasting benefit – a friend who is a Wim Hof Method instructor suggested that I try cold water immersion before bed. I bought a hundred pound of ice, filled up my bathtub, and got the best night's sleep I'd had in two years. I did that three more times before realizing that hauling ice was going to get expensive and take a lot of time. That's what motivated me to look into other ways to get cold water. What did your early cold plunge set up look like? My cold plunge has been through a number of evolutions through the years. The very first thing I did after ice baths was buy a Whirlpool 15 cubic foot chest freezer and fill it with water. That was great until three days later I opened it up and discovered a few rivers of rust pouring out of the seams.  The ice chest freezer for cold plunge, why is it such a “winner” for DIY cold plunge enthusiasts? People love DIY for a few different reasons. For many who don't have the budget to buy a commercially made cold plunge, the DIY route is financially motivated.  A basic setup with a used chest freezer can be created for less than a few hundred dollars. Even a very well equipped high-end chest freezer setup can cost less – in some cases *way* less, than half of the commercially made models.    Let's talk about your Chest Freezer Cold Plunge book, how did that come about?  After having a number of problems and issues with my chest freezer cold plunge experiments and finally getting it dialed in, I wanted to start a group where we could talk about various issues and brainstorm ideas. It only took a month or two before I noticed many people asking the same basic questions. So I wrote a FAQ. That expanded pretty quickly to 13 pages, and I still felt like it wasn't detailed enough, so I decided to write a book. Editor's note: Link to John's book is here. You have helped many others adapt their chest freezer for cold plunge, including the starting of your Facebook group. How did that start and how is that going? When I started learning about converting a chest freezer into a cold plunge, there were maybe 30,000 people in the Wim Hof Method Facebook group, but only a few posts about chest freezers. And most of those posts were “Hey I did this!” but lacking “How I did this.” The posts were also hard to keep track of and follow with all of the other content being posted. I had a sense that a separate group to discuss making a cold plunge from a chest freezer would be helpful. I asked one of the Wim Hof group admins if he would be OK with me starting a separate group. He said yes, and let me post a couple of messages about it. It grew from there. “Contrast therapy” is a big thing. Please comment on sauna AND cold plunge, as peanut butter and jelly, or 1+1=3? I love hot tubs and saunas. As I mentioned, I hated the cold for most of my life. When I was looking for apartments, my # 1 criteria after location was “Does it have a hot tub!” The last apartment I lived in for four years had a sauna, and I thought I was in heaven. I don't have one where I live now, but have experienced contrast therapy at a few resorts, spas, and natural springs that I have been to over the years. One of my goals is to add a sauna at home. I've read some of the research and know that the benefits are awesome. Contrast therapy provides a huge metabolic workout. I suspect that it is not a matter of either hot or cold, rather one of both hot and cold. I know cold by itself has tremendous benefits. Adding a sauna to that practice seems to have an exponential benefit. After reading Dr. Rhonda Patrick's papers on heat shock and cold shock, I'm a believer in the value of both. Editor's note: further reading: with cold plunge and sauna, 1+1=3.