Podcasts about Turing Award

He pioneered AI, now he's warning the world. Godfather of AI Geoffrey Hinton breaks his silence on the deadly dangers of AI no one is prepared for. Geoffrey Hinton is a leading computer scientist and cognitive psychologist, widely recognised as the ‘Godfather of AI' for his pioneering work on neural networks and deep learning. He received the 2018 Turing Award, often called the Nobel Prize of computing. In 2023, he left Google to warn people about the rising dangers of AI. He explains: Why there's a real 20% chance AI could lead to HUMAN EXTINCTION. How speaking out about AI got him SILENCED. The deep REGRET he feels for helping create AI. The 6 DEADLY THREATS AI poses to humanity right now. AI's potential to advance healthcare, boost productivity, and transform education. 00:00 Intro 02:28 Why Do They Call You the Godfather of AI? 04:37 Warning About the Dangers of AI 07:23 Concerns We Should Have About AI 10:50 European AI Regulations 12:29 Cyber Attack Risk 14:42 How to Protect Yourself From Cyber Attacks 16:29 Using AI to Create Viruses 17:43 AI and Corrupt Elections 19:20 How AI Creates Echo Chambers 23:05 Regulating New Technologies 24:48 Are Regulations Holding Us Back From Competing With China? 26:14 The Threat of Lethal Autonomous Weapons 28:50 Can These AI Threats Combine? 30:32 Restricting AI From Taking Over 32:18 Reflecting on Your Life's Work Amid AI Risks 34:02 Student Leaving OpenAI Over Safety Concerns 38:06 Are You Hopeful About the Future of AI? 40:08 The Threat of AI-Induced Joblessness 43:04 If Muscles and Intelligence Are Replaced, What's Left? 44:55 Ads 46:59 Difference Between Current AI and Superintelligence 52:54 Coming to Terms With AI's Capabilities 54:46 How AI May Widen the Wealth Inequality Gap 56:35 Why Is AI Superior to Humans? 59:18 AI's Potential to Know More Than Humans 1:01:06 Can AI Replicate Human Uniqueness? 1:04:14 Will Machines Have Feelings? 1:11:29 Working at Google 1:15:12 Why Did You Leave Google? 1:16:37 Ads 1:18:32 What Should People Be Doing About AI? 1:19:53 Impressive Family Background 1:21:30 Advice You'd Give Looking Back 1:22:44 Final Message on AI Safety 1:26:05 What's the Biggest Threat to Human Happiness? Follow Geoffrey: X - https://bit.ly/4n0shFf  The Diary Of A CEO: Join DOAC circle here -https://doaccircle.com/ The 1% Diary is back - limited time only: https://bit.ly/3YFbJbt The Diary Of A CEO Conversation Cards (Second Edition): https://g2ul0.app.link/f31dsUttKKb Get email updates - https://bit.ly/diary-of-a-ceo-yt Follow Steven - https://g2ul0.app.link/gnGqL4IsKKb Sponsors: Stan Store - Visit https://link.stan.store/joinstanchallenge to join the challenge! KetoneIQ - Visit https://ketone.com/STEVEN  for 30% off your subscription order #GeoffreyHinton #ArtificialIntelligence #AIDangers Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

James Copnall, presenter of the BBC's Newsday, speaks to Yoshua Bengio, the world-renowned computer scientist often described as one of the godfathers of artificial intelligence, or AI.Bengio is a professor at the University of Montreal in Canada, founder of the Quebec Artificial Intelligence Institute - and recipient of an A.M. Turing Award, “the Nobel Prize of Computing”. AI allows computers to operate in a way that can seem human, by using programmes that learn vast amounts of data and follow complex instructions. Big tech firms and governments have invested billions of dollars in the development of artificial intelligence, thanks to its potential to increase efficiency, cut costs and support innovation.Bengio believes there are risks in AI models that attempt to mimic human behaviour with all its flaws. For example, recent experiments have shown how some AI models are developing the capacity to deceive and even blackmail humans, in a quest for their self-preservation. Instead, he says AI must be safe, scientific and working to understand humans without copying them. The Interview brings you conversations with people shaping our world, from all over the world. The best interviews from the BBC. You can listen on the BBC World Service, Mondays and Wednesdays at 0700 GMT. Or you can listen to The Interview as a podcast, out twice a week on BBC Sounds, Apple, Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts.Presenter: James Copnall Producers: Lucy Sheppard, Ben Cooper Editor: Nick HollandGet in touch with us on email TheInterview@bbc.co.uk and use the hashtag #TheInterviewBBC on social media.(Image: Yoshua Bengio. Credit: Craig Barritt/Getty)

Today's conversation with Turing Award-winning computer scientist LESLIE VALIANT explores a question I find myself returning to over and over again – What makes us human? What unique abilities have allowed homo sapiens to succeed, flourish, and dominate – knowing it's not our size, strength, or speed. His new book, THE IMPORTANCE OF BEING EDUCABLE: A NEW THEORY ON HUMAN UNIQUENESS, has added timeliness, as we confront a crisis of social mistrust as well as the threats and promise of AI.Valiant-03-31-2025 Transcript

Martin Hellman is an American cryptographer known for co-inventing public-key cryptography with Whitfield Diffie and Ralph Merkle in the 1970s. Their groundbreaking Diffie-Hellman key exchange method allowed secure communication over insecure channels, laying the foundation for modern encryption protocols. Hellman has also contributed to cybersecurity policy and ethical discussions on nuclear risk. His work has The post Turing Award Special: A Conversation with Martin Hellman appeared first on Software Engineering Daily.

Martin Hellman is an American cryptographer known for co-inventing public-key cryptography with Whitfield Diffie and Ralph Merkle in the 1970s. Their groundbreaking Diffie-Hellman key exchange method allowed secure communication over insecure channels, laying the foundation for modern encryption protocols. Hellman has also contributed to cybersecurity policy and ethical discussions on nuclear risk. His work has The post Turing Award Special: A Conversation with Martin Hellman appeared first on Software Engineering Daily.

David A. Patterson is a pioneering computer scientist known for his contributions to computer architecture, particularly as a co-developer of Reduced Instruction Set Computing, or RISC, which revolutionized processor design. He has co-authored multiple books, including the highly influential Computer Architecture: A Quantitative Approach. David is a UC Berkeley Pardee professor emeritus, a Google distinguished The post Turing Award Special: A Conversation with David Patterson appeared first on Software Engineering Daily.

David A. Patterson is a pioneering computer scientist known for his contributions to computer architecture, particularly as a co-developer of Reduced Instruction Set Computing, or RISC, which revolutionized processor design. He has co-authored multiple books, including the highly influential Computer Architecture: A Quantitative Approach. David is a UC Berkeley Pardee professor emeritus, a Google distinguished The post Turing Award Special: A Conversation with David Patterson appeared first on Software Engineering Daily.

Yann LeCun, Meta's chief AI scientist and Turing Award winner, joins us to discuss the limits of today's LLMs, why generative AI may be hitting a wall, what's missing for true human-level intelligence, the real meaning of AGI, Meta's open-source strategy with Llama, the future of AI assistants in smart glasses, why diversity in AI models matters, and how open models could shape the next era of innovation Support the show on Patreon! http://patreon.com/aiinsideshow Subscribe to the YouTube channel! http://www.youtube.com/@aiinsideshow Note: Time codes subject to change depending on dynamic ad insertion by the distributor. CHAPTERS: 0:00:00 - Podcast begins 0:01:40 - Introduction to Yann LeCun, Chief AI Scientist at Meta 0:02:11 - The limitations and hype cycles of LLMs, and historical patterns of overestimating new AI paradigms. 0:05:45 - The future of AI research, and the need for machines that understand the physical world, can reason and plan, and are driven by human-defined objectives 0:14:47 - AGI Timeline, human-level AI within a decade, with deep learning as the foundation for advanced machine intelligence 0:21:35 - Why true AI intelligence requires abstract reasoning and hierarchical planning beyond language capabilities, unlike today's neural networks that rely on computational tricks 0:30:24 - Meta's open-source LLAMA strategy, empowering academia and startups, and commercial benefits 0:36:10 - The future of AI assistants, wearable tech, cultural diversity, and open-source models 0:42:52 - The impact of immigration policies on US technological leadership and STEM education 0:44:26 - Does Yann have a cat? 0:45:19 - Thank you to Yann LaCun for joining the AI Inside podcast Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Software Engineering Daily: Read the notes at at podcastnotes.org. Don't forget to subscribe for free to our newsletter, the top 10 ideas of the week, every Monday --------- John Hennessy is a computer scientist, entrepreneur, and academic known for his significant contributions to computer architecture. He co-developed the RISC architecture, which revolutionized modern computing by enabling faster and more efficient processors. Hennessy served as the president of Stanford University from 2000 to 2016 and later co-founded MIPS Computer Systems and Atheros Communications. Currently, The post Turing Award Special: A Conversation with John Hennessy appeared first on Software Engineering Daily.

John Hennessy is a computer scientist, entrepreneur, and academic known for his significant contributions to computer architecture. He co-developed the RISC architecture, which revolutionized modern computing by enabling faster and more efficient processors. Hennessy served as the president of Stanford University from 2000 to 2016 and later co-founded MIPS Computer Systems and Atheros Communications. Currently, The post Turing Award Special: A Conversation with John Hennessy appeared first on Software Engineering Daily.

John Hennessy is a computer scientist, entrepreneur, and academic known for his significant contributions to computer architecture. He co-developed the RISC architecture, which revolutionized modern computing by enabling faster and more efficient processors. Hennessy served as the president of Stanford University from 2000 to 2016 and later co-founded MIPS Computer Systems and Atheros Communications. Currently, The post Turing Award Special: A Conversation with John Hennessy appeared first on Software Engineering Daily.

Jeffrey Ullman is a renowned computer scientist and professor emeritus at Stanford University, celebrated for his groundbreaking contributions to database systems, compilers, and algorithms. He co-authored influential texts like Principles of Database Systems and Compilers: Principles, Techniques, and Tools (often called the “Dragon Book”), which have shaped generations of computer science students. Jeffrey received the The post Turing Award Special: A Conversation with Jeffrey Ullman appeared first on Software Engineering Daily.

Jeffrey Ullman is a renowned computer scientist and professor emeritus at Stanford University, celebrated for his groundbreaking contributions to database systems, compilers, and algorithms. He co-authored influential texts like Principles of Database Systems and Compilers: Principles, Techniques, and Tools (often called the “Dragon Book”), which have shaped generations of computer science students. Jeffrey received the The post Turing Award Special: A Conversation with Jeffrey Ullman appeared first on Software Engineering Daily.

In the latest episode of Approximately Correct, we're taking the time to celebrate with Amii Fellow, Chief Scientific Advisor, and Canada CIFAR AI Chair Rich Sutton, newly-minted winner of the A.M. Turing Award, a prize that is often referred to as  the “Nobel Prize of Computer Science.”

Jack Dongarra is an American computer scientist who is celebrated for his pioneering contributions to numerical algorithms and high-performance computing. He developed essential software libraries like LINPACK and LAPACK, which are widely used for solving linear algebra problems on advanced computing systems. Dongarra is also a co-creator of the TOP500 list, which ranks the world's The post Turing Award Special: A Conversation with Jack Dongarra appeared first on Software Engineering Daily.

Jack Dongarra is an American computer scientist who is celebrated for his pioneering contributions to numerical algorithms and high-performance computing. He developed essential software libraries like LINPACK and LAPACK, which are widely used for solving linear algebra problems on advanced computing systems. Dongarra is also a co-creator of the TOP500 list, which ranks the world's The post Turing Award Special: A Conversation with Jack Dongarra appeared first on Software Engineering Daily.

In this episode of 'The Wisdom Of' Show, host Simon Bowen speaks with Ed Catmull, co-founder of Pixar Animation Studios and former president of Walt Disney Animation Studios and Disneytoon Studios. With five Academy Awards® including an Oscar for Lifetime Achievement and the prestigious Turing Award for his work in computer graphics, Ed shares profound insights on creative leadership, innovation, and building world-class organizations. From pioneering 3D animation to leading the creation of beloved films that have grossed over $14 billion worldwide, Ed's journey offers valuable lessons on fostering creativity, navigating change, and building sustainable success.Ready to unlock your leadership potential and drive real change? Join Simon's exclusive masterclass on The Models Method. Learn how to articulate your unique value and create scalable impact: https://thesimonbowen.com/masterclassEpisode Breakdown00:00 Introduction and Ed's pioneering journey in animation05:18 Merging art and science: The power of interdisciplinary thinking12:36 Company culture and collective ownership beyond shares18:52 The inversion of business values: Product, People, Profit25:44 Navigating change and innovation in fast-evolving industries33:29 Pixar's 5-step decision-making framework for creative excellence38:22 Truth-finding mechanisms in organizations45:36 The CEO's role in facilitating collaborative genius52:12 Shifting from achievement to effectiveness: "Is this working?"58:43 Future implications and conclusionsKey InsightsWhy combining seemingly incongruous disciplines (science, art, math) creates richer innovationHow most businesses conflate collective ownership with shares or control, missing true ownershipThe dangerous mismatch between stated values and actual priorities in business decision-makingWhy understanding the accelerating rate of change is fundamental to business survivalThe 5-step framework Pixar uses to make all critical creative decisionsWhy most CEOs incorrectly believe they have effective error detection mechanismsHow shifting focus from "What am I achieving?" to "Is this working?" transforms leadershipThe CEO's role in fostering collaboration rather than providing all the answersWhy judging the creation, not the creator, is essential for innovationAbout Ed CatmullEd Catmull is a pioneer in computer graphics and animation who co-founded Pixar Animation Studios. Under his leadership, Pixar produced groundbreaking animated films including Toy Story, Finding Nemo, The Incredibles, and many more. After Disney acquired Pixar in 2006, Ed served as President of both Pixar and Walt Disney Animation Studios, overseeing hits like Frozen, Tangled, and Wreck-It Ralph.His numerous accolades include five Academy Awards®, the Turing Award from the Association for Computing Machinery, and the prestigious Gordon E. Sawyer Award for lifetime contributions to computer graphics in film. Ed's book "Creativity, Inc.: Overcoming the Unseen Forces That Stand in the Way of True Inspiration" is considered essential reading on creative leadership.With a Ph.D. in computer science and an initial passion for animation that led him through physics to pioneering computer graphics, Ed's career exemplifies the power of combining art and science to create revolutionary innovation.Connect with Ed CatmullLinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/edwincatmull/X:...

Our 202nd episode with a summary and discussion of last week's big AI news! Recorded on 03/07/2025 Hosted by Andrey Kurenkov and Jeremie Harris. Feel free to email us your questions and feedback at contact@lastweekinai.com and/or hello@gladstone.ai Read out our text newsletter and comment on the podcast at https://lastweekin.ai/. Join our Discord here! https://discord.gg/nTyezGSKwP In this episode: Alibaba released Qwen-32B, their latest reasoning model, on par with leading models like DeepMind's R1. Anthropic raised $3.5 billion in a funding round, valuing the company at $61.5 billion, solidifying its position as a key competitor to OpenAI. DeepMind introduced BigBench Extra Hard, a more challenging benchmark to evaluate the reasoning capabilities of large language models. Reinforcement Learning pioneers Andrew Bartow and Rich Sutton were awarded the prestigious Turing Award for their contributions to the field. Timestamps + Links: cle picks: (00:00:00) Intro / Banter (00:01:41) Episode Preview (00:02:50) GPT-4.5 Discussion (00:14:13) Alibaba's New QwQ 32B Model is as Good as DeepSeek-R1 ; Outperforms OpenAI's o1-mini (00:21:29) With Alexa Plus, Amazon finally reinvents its best product (00:26:08) Another DeepSeek moment? General AI agent Manus shows ability to handle complex tasks (00:29:14) Microsoft's new Dragon Copilot is an AI assistant for healthcare (00:32:24) Mistral's new OCR API turns any PDF document into an AI-ready Markdown file (00:33:19) A.I. Start-Up Anthropic Closes Deal That Values It at $61.5 Billion (00:35:49) Nvidia-Backed CoreWeave Files for IPO, Shows Growing Revenue (00:38:05) Waymo and Uber's Austin robotaxi expansion begins today (00:38:54) UK competition watchdog drops Microsoft-OpenAI probe (00:41:17) Scale AI announces multimillion-dollar defense deal, a major step in U.S. military automation (00:44:43) DeepSeek Open Source Week: A Complete Summary (00:45:25) DeepSeek AI Releases DualPipe: A Bidirectional Pipeline Parallelism Algorithm for Computation-Communication Overlap in V3/R1 Training (00:53:00) Physical Intelligence open-sources Pi0 robotics foundation model (00:54:23) BIG-Bench Extra Hard (00:56:10) Cognitive Behaviors that Enable Self-Improving Reasoners (01:01:49) The MASK Benchmark: Disentangling Honesty From Accuracy in AI Systems (01:05:32) Pioneers of Reinforcement Learning Win the Turing Award (01:06:56) OpenAI launches $50M grant program to help fund academic research (01:07:25) The Nuclear-Level Risk of Superintelligent AI (01:13:34) METR's GPT-4.5 pre-deployment evaluations (01:17:16) Chinese buyers are getting Nvidia Blackwell chips despite US export controls

Jason Howell returns from Mobile World Congress with some AI trends to discuss along with Jeff Jarvis. OpenAI has some pricey plans in the works, Amazon announces Alexa Plus, and more! Support the show on Patreon! http://patreon.com/aiinsideshow Subscribe to the new YouTube channel! http://www.youtube.com/@aiinsideshow Note: Time codes subject to change depending on dynamic ad insertion by the distributor. NEWS 0:04:11 - Gemini Live ‘Astra' video and screen sharing rolling out in March 0:13:52 - Deutsche Telekom and Perplexity announce new ‘AI Phone' priced at under $1K 0:16:56 - OpenAI Plots Charging $20,000 a Month For PhD-Level Agents 0:22:31 - The LA Times published an op-ed warning of AI's dangers. It also published its AI tool's reply 0:28:22 - The future of Google Search just rolled out on Labs - and AI Mode changes everything 0:35:41 - Amazon announces AI-powered Alexa Plus 0:38:06 - Judge denies Musk's attempt to block OpenAI from becoming for-profit entity 0:39:18 - Eerily realistic AI voice demo sparks amazement and discomfort online 0:45:57 - Turing Award winners warn over unsafe deployment of AI models Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Plus: After a long reprieve, one B.C. town faces the prospect of a renewed peacock invasion. Also: A conversation with AI pioneer Richard Sutton, co-winner of this year's Turing Award.

Das ist das KI-Update vom 06.03.2025 mit diesen Themen: Google erweitert AI Overviews und führt neuen KI Mode ein Turing Award für Reinforcement Learning Militärische Drohnen, gesteuert durch natürliche Sprache Jugendliche sehen KI skeptischer als noch im Vorjahr Links zu allen Themen der heutigen Folge findet Ihr hier: https://heise.de/-10304924 https://www.heise.de/thema/KI-Update https://pro.heise.de/ki/ https://www.heise.de/newsletter/anmeldung.html?id=ki-update https://www.heise.de/thema/Kuenstliche-Intelligenz https://the-decoder.de/ https://www.heiseplus.de/podcast https://www.ct.de/ki   heise KI PRO    Zum Schluss noch der Hinweis, dass es heise KI PRO nur noch bis zum 28.2.2025 zum attraktiven Aktionspreis gibt. Unser Fachdienst zum Thema künstliche Intelligenz begleitet Dich und Dein Team Schritt für Schritt bei der Entwicklung und Implementierung einer zukunftssicheren KI-Strategie. Profitiere von fundiertem Fachwissen, Live-Webinaren und Talks mit KI-Experten, praxisnahen Anleitungen sowie dem Austausch mit unserer stetig wachsenden KI-Business-Community. Erfahre mehr auf pro.heise.de/ki/ und sichere Dir jetzt noch den attraktiven Aktionspreis für heise KI PRO.      Das KI-Update als Newsletter  Das KI-Update gibt es jetzt auch als Newsletter. Gemeinsam mit den Kollegen von The Decoder bereiten wir alle Themen aus dem Podcast zum Nachlesen für Euch auf. Komplett mit allen Links zu weiterführenden Themen. Ihr könnt Euch auf unserer Website dafür anmelden. Alle Infos findet Ihr unter heise.de/newsletter – oder folgt dem Anmelde-Link in den Shownotes.    Heise KI PRO  Aktionspreis:  Zum Schluss noch der Hinweis, dass es heise KI PRO derzeit zum attraktiven Aktionspreis gibt. Unser Fachdienst zum Thema künstliche Intelligenz begleitet Dich und Dein Team Schritt für Schritt bei der Entwicklung und Implementierung einer zukunftssicheren KI-Strategie. Profitiere von fundiertem Fachwissen, Live-Webinaren und Talks mit KI-Experten, praxisnahen Anleitungen sowie dem Austausch mit unserer stetig wachsenden KI-Business-Community. Erfahre mehr auf pro.heise.de/ki/ und sichere Dir jetzt den attraktiven Aktionspreis für heise KI PRO.  Kennenlernangebot:   "Zum Schluss noch der Hinweis, dass heise KI PRO jetzt über ein kostenloses Kennenlernangebot verfügt. Unser Fachdienst zum Thema künstliche Intelligenz begleitet Dich und Dein Team Schritt für Schritt bei der Entwicklung und Implementierung einer zukunftssicheren KI-Strategie. Profitiere von fundiertem Fachwissen, Live-Webinaren und Talks mit KI-Experten, praxisnahen Anleitungen sowie dem Austausch mit unserer stetig wachsenden KI-Business-Community. Erfahre mehr auf pro.heise.de/ki/ und melde Dich jetzt an für das kostenlose Kennenlernangebot von heise KI PRO."      heise+  Zum Schluss noch mal der Hinweis auf das heise-Angebot für unsere Podcast-Community. Ihr bekommt das heise+ Abo die ersten 3 Monate zum Sonderpreis für nur 6,45€ pro Monat: Damit erhaltet Ihr nicht nur Zugriff auf alle Artikel auf heise online, sondern könnt auch alle Heise-Magazine im digitalen Abo jederzeit mobil lesen. Nach Ablauf der Testphase ist Euer heise+ Abo natürlich monatlich kündbar. Dieses Angebot für unsere Podcast-Fans findet Ihr unter heiseplus.de/podcast  Zum Schluss noch der Hinweis, dass Ihr als Teil der heise online Podcast Community das heise+ Abo die ersten 3 Monate zum Sonderpreis für nur 6,45€ pro Monat bekommt: Damit könnt Ihr nicht nur alle unsere Artikel auf heise online lesen. Ihr könnt auch auf alle Heise-Magazine im digitalen Abo mobil zugreifen. Nach Ablauf der Testphase ist Euer heise+ Abo natürlich jederzeit monatlich kündbar. Dieses Angebot für unsere Podcast-Fans findet Ihr unter heiseplus.de/podcast  Zum Schluss noch mal der Hinweis, dass Ihr als Teil unserer Podcast-Community auch in diesem Jahr noch profitiert und Euer heise+ Abo für die ersten 3 Monate zum Sonderpreis von nur 6,45€ pro Monat bekommt: Damit erhaltet Ihr nicht nur Zugrif

Google is reinventing search through AI-driven overviews, while Amazon is aggressively pursuing Agentic AI and hybrid reasoning models. Researchers are being recognised for reinforcement learning achievements, and warnings are emerging about emotional attachments to hyper-realistic AI voices. Meanwhile, legal battles surrounding OpenAI's for-profit transition continue, and academic institutions are benefiting from initiatives like OpenAI's NextGenAI. Furthermore, Cohere has launched an impressive multilingual vision model, while incidents such as students using AI to cheat in interviews highlight ongoing ethical challenges.

DeepSeek has impressed many and reinforcement learning is getting new attention. However, it was never gone, but is now celebrating a revival. Jan Kountik is one of the most prominent AI experts in the field. We talk to him. We talk to Jan Koutnik about prejudices, approaches and new ideas in reinforcement learning and why new ideas are needed.

The consciousness testCould an artificial intelligence be capable of genuine conscious experience?Coming from a range of different scientific and philosophical perspectives, Yoshua Bengio, Sabine Hossenfelder, Nick Lane, and Hilary Lawson dive deep into the question of whether artificial intelligence systems like ChatGPT could one day become self-aware, and whether they have already achieved this state.Yoshua Bengio is a Turing Award-winning computer scientist. Sabine Hossenfelder is a science YouTuber and theoretical physicist. Nick Lane is an evolutionary biochemist. Hilary Lawson is a post-postmodern philosopher.To witness such topics discussed live buy tickets for our upcoming festival: https://howthelightgetsin.org/festivals/And visit our website for many more articles, videos, and podcasts like this one: https://iai.tv/You can find everything we referenced here: https://linktr.ee/philosophyforourtimesAnd don't hesitate to email us at podcast@iai.tv with your thoughts or questions on the episode! Who do you agree or disagree with?See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Eric chats with 2024 Nobel Laureate Geoffrey Hinton and Stanford Professor Jay McClelland, two pioneers who have spent nearly half a century laying the groundwork for modern-day AI, advancing research on neural networks long before it captured the world's imagination.In fact, their early work faced significant skepticism from the scientific community - an experience they candidly discuss in this episode. This wide-ranging conversation covers everything from the capabilities of recent breakthrough LLMS like DeepSeek to AI agents, the nature of memory and confabulation, the challenges to aligning AI with human values when we humans don't even agree on our values, and Geoff's fascinating new theory of language, featuring an analogy of words as thousand-dimensional, shape-shifting Lego blocks with hands.Geoff, who retired in 2023, divided his time between the University of Toronto and Google DeepMind. With numerous accolades including the 2018 Turing Award and 2024 Nobel Prize in Physics, he is perhaps best known for co-developing the backpropagation algorithm - now a cornerstone of AI research. Jay, currently at Stanford and Google DeepMind, has revolutionized our understanding of human learning through his work on Parallel Distributed Processing (PDP), applying neural network principles to understand phenomena like language acquisition. His insights into human learning have profoundly influenced how we understand machine learning.Their friendship dates back to the late 1970s and grew stronger as both collaborated with fellow pioneer David Rumelhart. They share some touching memories about Dave in this episode. Remarkably, despite decades of friendship and building upon each other's work, this appears to be their first recorded conversation together. Eric challenged them to discuss their latest insights and disagreements.This episode was recorded on January 29, 2025.JOIN OUR SUBSTACK! Stay up to date with the pod and become part of the ever-growing community! https://stanfordpsypod.substack.com/If you found this episode interesting at all, consider leaving us a good rating! It just takes a second but will allow us to reach more people and make them excited about psychology.Links:Geoff's websiteGeoff's Google ScholarJay's websiteJay's Google ScholarEric's websiteEric's X @EricNeumannPsyPodcast X @StanfordPsyPodPodcast Substack https://stanfordpsypod.substack.com/Let us know what you think of this episode, or of the podcast! stanfordpsychpodcast@gmail.com

Professor Yoshua Bengio is a pioneer in deep learning and Turing Award winner. Bengio talks about AI safety, why goal-seeking “agentic” AIs might be dangerous, and his vision for building powerful AI tools without giving them agency. Topics include reward tampering risks, instrumental convergence, global AI governance, and how non-agent AIs could revolutionize science and medicine while reducing existential threats. Perfect for anyone curious about advanced AI risks and how to manage them responsibly. SPONSOR MESSAGES: *** CentML offers competitive pricing for GenAI model deployment, with flexible options to suit a wide range of models, from small to large-scale deployments. https://centml.ai/pricing/ Tufa AI Labs is a brand new research lab in Zurich started by Benjamin Crouzier focussed on o-series style reasoning and AGI. Are you interested in working on reasoning, or getting involved in their events? They are hosting an event in Zurich on January 9th with the ARChitects, join if you can. Goto https://tufalabs.ai/ *** Interviewer: Tim Scarfe Yoshua Bengio: https://x.com/Yoshua_Bengio https://scholar.google.com/citations?user=kukA0LcAAAAJ&hl=en https://yoshuabengio.org/ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yoshua_Bengio TOC: 1. AI Safety Fundamentals [00:00:00] 1.1 AI Safety Risks and International Cooperation [00:03:20] 1.2 Fundamental Principles vs Scaling in AI Development [00:11:25] 1.3 System 1/2 Thinking and AI Reasoning Capabilities [00:15:15] 1.4 Reward Tampering and AI Agency Risks [00:25:17] 1.5 Alignment Challenges and Instrumental Convergence 2. AI Architecture and Safety Design [00:33:10] 2.1 Instrumental Goals and AI Safety Fundamentals [00:35:02] 2.2 Separating Intelligence from Goals in AI Systems [00:40:40] 2.3 Non-Agent AI as Scientific Tools [00:44:25] 2.4 Oracle AI Systems and Mathematical Safety Frameworks 3. Global Governance and Security [00:49:50] 3.1 International AI Competition and Hardware Governance [00:51:58] 3.2 Military and Security Implications of AI Development [00:56:07] 3.3 Personal Evolution of AI Safety Perspectives [01:00:25] 3.4 AI Development Scaling and Global Governance Challenges [01:12:10] 3.5 AI Regulation and Corporate Oversight 4. Technical Innovations [01:23:00] 4.1 Evolution of Neural Architectures: From RNNs to Transformers [01:26:02] 4.2 GFlowNets and Symbolic Computation [01:30:47] 4.3 Neural Dynamics and Consciousness [01:34:38] 4.4 AI Creativity and Scientific Discovery SHOWNOTES (Transcript, references, best clips etc): https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/ajucigli8n90fbxv9h94x/BENGIO_SHOW.pdf?rlkey=38hi2m19sylnr8orb76b85wkw&dl=0 CORE REFS (full list in shownotes and pinned comment): [00:00:15] Bengio et al.: "AI Risk" Statement https://www.safe.ai/work/statement-on-ai-risk [00:23:10] Bengio on reward tampering & AI safety (Harvard Data Science Review) https://hdsr.mitpress.mit.edu/pub/w974bwb0 [00:40:45] Munk Debate on AI existential risk, featuring Bengio https://munkdebates.com/debates/artificial-intelligence [00:44:30] "Can a Bayesian Oracle Prevent Harm from an Agent?" (Bengio et al.) on oracle-to-agent safety https://arxiv.org/abs/2408.05284 [00:51:20] Bengio (2024) memo on hardware-based AI governance verification https://yoshuabengio.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/08/FlexHEG-Memo_August-2024.pdf [01:12:55] Bengio's involvement in EU AI Act code of practice https://digital-strategy.ec.europa.eu/en/news/meet-chairs-leading-development-first-general-purpose-ai-code-practice [01:27:05] Complexity-based compositionality theory (Elmoznino, Jiralerspong, Bengio, Lajoie) https://arxiv.org/abs/2410.14817 [01:29:00] GFlowNet Foundations (Bengio et al.) for probabilistic inference https://arxiv.org/pdf/2111.09266 [01:32:10] Discrete attractor states in neural systems (Nam, Elmoznino, Bengio, Lajoie) https://arxiv.org/pdf/2302.06403

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Send us a textEnglish edition [EN]: Niklaus Wirth is one of the computing pioneers and his work inspired many other technologies and a generation of engineers. In this episode I discuss one of his many contributions: the programming language Pascal. And we hear from 3 people who worked and learnt with Pascal in their career: Irving Reid, Todd Jacobs and Charles Forsythe.Links:https://computerhistory.org/profile/niklaus-wirth/https://people.inf.ethz.ch/wirth/https://amturing.acm.org/award_winners/wirth_1025774.cfm Turing Award for N Wirthhttps://people.inf.ethz.ch/wirth/CompilerConstruction/index.html Book on Compiler Constructionhttp://pascal.hansotten.com/ucsd-p-system/more-on-p-code/ p-code machineshttp://pascal.hansotten.com/standard-pascal-and-validation/ Standard Pascalhttps://www.embarcadero.com/products/delphi Delphihttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UCSD_Pascal UCSD Pascalhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yj3DMUn6cck Kathleen Jenssen (co-author of the Pascal book) at the 80th birthday reception for N Wirthhttps://www.fidonet.org Fidonet bulletin boardhttp://www.retroarchive.org/swag/index.html Software Archiving group (Pascal)Not everyone was enamoured with Pascal. Here is a link to B Kernighan's post on 'Pascal...is a toy language' http://www.lysator.liu.se/c/bwk-on-pascal.html Support the showThank you for listening! Merci de votre écoute! Vielen Dank für´s Zuhören! Contact Details/ Coordonnées / Kontakt: Email mailto:code4thought@proton.me UK RSE Slack (ukrse.slack.com): @code4thought or @piddie US RSE Slack (usrse.slack.com): @Peter Schmidt Mastodon: https://fosstodon.org/@code4thought or @code4thought@fosstodon.org Bluesky: https://bsky.app/profile/code4thought.bsky.social LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/pweschmidt/ (personal Profile)LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/codeforthought/ (Code for Thought Profile) This podcast is licensed under the Creative Commons Licence: https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/

After the Nobel Prize in physics went to John J. Hopfield and Geoffrey E. Hinton "for foundational discoveries and inventions that enable machine learning with artificial neural networks", many asked why a prize for physics has gone to computer scientists for what is also an achievement in computer science.在约翰·霍普菲尔德和杰弗里·辛顿因“为推动利用人工神经网络进行机器学习作出的基础性发现和发明”获得诺贝尔物理学奖后，许多人发问，为什么物理学奖授予了计算机学家，且其成就也属于计算机科学领域。Even Hinton, a winner of the 2018 Turing Award and one of the "godfathers of AI", was himself "extremely surprised" at receiving the call telling him he had got the Nobel in physics, while the other recipient Hopfield said "It was just astounding."就连2018年图灵奖得主、“人工智能教父”之一的辛顿，在接到瑞典皇家科学院的电话时，也直呼“没有想到”。另一位获奖者霍普菲尔德则说：“这简直令人震惊。”Actually, the artificial neural network research has a lot to do with physics. Most notably, Hopfield replicated the functioning of the human brain by using the self-rotation of single molecules as if they were neurons and linking them together into a network, which is what the famous Hopfield neural network is about. In the process, Hopfield used two physical equations. Similarly, Hinton made Hopfield's approach the basis for a more sophisticated artificial neural network called the Boltzmann machine, which can catch and correct computational errors.其实，人工神经网络研究与物理学有很大关系。最值得注意的是，霍普菲尔德利用单分子自旋复制了人脑的功能，把它们当作神经元，并把它们连接成一个网络，这就是著名的“霍普菲尔德神经网络”。在这个过程中，霍普菲尔德使用了两个物理方程。同样，辛顿将霍普菲尔德的方法作为一种更复杂的人工神经网络的基础，这种人工神经网络被称为玻尔兹曼机，它可以捕捉和纠正计算错误。The two steps have helped in forming a net that can act like a human brain and compute. The neural networks today can learn from their own mistakes and constantly improve, thus being able to solve complicated problems for humanity. For example, the Large Language Model that's the basis of the various GPT technologies people use today dates back to the early days when Hopfield and Hinton formed and improved their network.这两项成果帮助形成了可以像人脑一样进行计算的网络。如今的神经网络可以从自己的错误中学习并不断改进，从而能够为人类解决复杂的问题。例如，作为当今人们使用的各种GPT技术基础的大语言模型，就可以追溯到早期霍普菲尔德和辛顿形成和改进人工神经网络的时候。Instead of weakening the role of physics, that the Nobel Prize in Physics goes to neural network achievements strengthens it by revealing to the world the role physics, or fundamental science as a whole, plays in sharpening technology. Physics studies the rules followed by particles and the universe and paves the way for modern technologies. That is why there is much to thank physicists for the milestones modern computer science has crossed.诺贝尔物理学奖授予神经网络成就，并不是削弱物理学的作用，而是通过向世界揭示物理学或整个基础科学在提高技术方面的作用来加强其地位。物理学研究粒子和宇宙所遵循的规则，并为现代技术铺平道路。这就是现代计算机科学所跨越的里程碑要感谢物理学家的原因。neuraladj. 神经的astoundingadj. 令人震惊的replicatev. 复制，重复

A couple of weeks ago, I was at this splashy AI conference in Montreal called All In. It was – how should I say this – a bit over the top. There were smoke machines, thumping dance music, food trucks. It was a far cry from the quiet research labs where AI was developed. While I remain skeptical of the promise of artificial intelligence, this conference made it clear that the industry is, well, all in. The stage was filled with startup founders promising that AI was going to revolutionize the way we work, and government officials saying AI was going to supercharge the economy. And then there was Yoshua Bengio. Bengio is one of AI's pioneering figures. In 2018, he and two colleagues won the Turing Award – the closest thing computer science has to a Nobel Prize – for their work on deep learning. In 2022, he was the most cited computer scientist in the world. It wouldn't be hyperbolic to suggest that AI as we know it today might not exist without Yoshua Bengio. But in the last couple of years, Bengio has had an epiphany of sorts. And he now believes that, left unchecked, AI has the potential to wipe out humanity. So these days, he's dedicated himself to AI safety. He's a professor at the University of Montreal and the founder of MILA - the Quebec Artificial Intelligence Institute.  And he was at this big AI conference too, amidst all these Silicon Valley types, pleading with the industry to slow down before it's too late. Mentioned:“Personal and Psychological Dimensions of AI Researchers Confronting AI Catastrophic Risks” by Yoshua Bengio“Deep Learning” by Yann LeCun, Yoshua Bengio, Geoffrey Hinton“Computing Machinery and Intelligence” by Alan Turing“International Scientific Report on the Safety of Advanced AI” “Safetywashing: Do AI Safety Benchmarks Actually Measure Safety Progress?” by R. Ren et al.“SB 1047: Safe and Secure Innovation for Frontier Artificial Intelligence Models Act”Further reading:“‘Deep Learning' Guru Reveals the Future of AI” by Cade Metz“Montréal Declaration for a Responsible Development of Artificial Intelligence” “This A.I. Subculture's Motto: Go, Go, Go” By Kevin Roose“Reasoning through arguments against taking AI safety seriously” by Yoshua Bengio

Welcome to The Nonlinear Library, where we use Text-to-Speech software to convert the best writing from the Rationalist and EA communities into audio. This is: How you can help pass important AI legislation with 10 minutes of effort, published by ThomasW on September 16, 2024 on LessWrong. Posting something about a current issue that I think many people here would be interested in. See also the related EA Forum post. California Governor Gavin Newsom has until September 30 to decide the fate of SB 1047 - one of the most hotly debated AI bills in the world. The Center for AI Safety Action Fund, where I work, is a co-sponsor of the bill. I'd like to share how you can help support the bill if you want to. About SB 1047 and why it is important SB 1047 is an AI bill in the state of California. SB 1047 would require the developers of the largest AI models, costing over $100 million to train, to test the models for the potential to cause or enable severe harm, such as cyberattacks on critical infrastructure or the creation of biological weapons resulting in mass casualties or $500 million in damages. AI developers must have a safety and security protocol that details how they will take reasonable care to prevent these harms and publish a copy of that protocol. Companies who fail to perform their duty under the act are liable for resulting harm. SB 1047 also lays the groundwork for a public cloud computing resource to make AI research more accessible to academic researchers and startups and establishes whistleblower protections for employees at large AI companies. So far, AI policy has relied on government reporting requirements and voluntary promises from AI developers to behave responsibly. But if you think voluntary commitments are insufficient, you will probably think we need a bill like SB 1047. If SB 1047 is vetoed, it's plausible that no comparable legal protection will exist in the next couple of years, as Congress does not appear likely to pass anything like this any time soon. The bill's text can be found here. A summary of the bill can be found here. Longer summaries can be found here and here, and a debate on the bill is here. SB 1047 is supported by many academic researchers (including Turing Award winners Yoshua Bengio and Geoffrey Hinton), employees at major AI companies and organizations like Imbue and Notion. It is opposed by OpenAI, Google, Meta, venture capital firm A16z as well as some other academic researchers and organizations. After a recent round of amendments, Anthropic said "we believe its benefits likely outweigh its costs." SB 1047 recently passed the California legislature, and Governor Gavin Newsom has until September 30th to sign or veto it. Newsom has not yet said whether he will sign it or not, but he is being lobbied hard to veto it. The Governor needs to hear from you. How you can help If you want to help this bill pass, there are some pretty simple steps you can do to increase that probability, many of which are detailed on the SB 1047 website. The most useful thing you can do is write a custom letter. To do this: Make a letter addressed to Governor Newsom using the template here. Save the document as a PDF and email it to leg.unit@gov.ca.gov. In writing this letter, we encourage you to keep it simple, short (0.5-2 pages), and intuitive. Complex, philosophical, or highly technical points are not necessary or useful in this context - instead, focus on how the risks are serious and how this bill would help keep the public safe. Once you've written your own custom letter, you can also think of 5 family members or friends who might also be willing to write one. Supporters from California are especially helpful, as are parents and people who don't typically engage on tech issues. Then help them write it! You can: Call or text them and tell them about the bill and ask them if they'd be willing to support it. Draft a custom letter based on what you know about them and what they told you. Send them a com...

Share this episode: https://www.samharris.org/podcasts/making-sense-episodes/379-regulating-artificial-intelligence Sam Harris speaks with Yoshua Bengio and Scott Wiener about AI risk and the new bill introduced in California intended to mitigate it. They discuss the controversy over regulating AI and the assumptions that lead people to discount the danger of an AI arms race. Yoshua Bengio is full professor at Université de Montréal and the Founder and Scientific Director of Mila - Quebec AI Institute. Considered one of the world’s leaders in artificial intelligence and deep learning, he is the recipient of the 2018 A.M. Turing Award with Geoffrey Hinton and Yann LeCun, known as the Nobel Prize of computing. He is a Canada CIFAR AI Chair, a member of the UN’s Scientific Advisory Board for Independent Advice on Breakthroughs in Science and Technology, and Chair of the International Scientific Report on the Safety of Advanced AI. Website: https://yoshuabengio.org/ Scott Wiener has represented San Francisco in the California Senate since 2016. He recently introduced SB 1047, a bill aiming to reduce the risks of frontier models of AI. He has also authored landmark laws to, among other things, streamline the permitting of new homes, require insurance plans to cover mental health care, guarantee net neutrality, eliminate mandatory minimums in sentencing, require billion-dollar corporations to disclose their climate emissions, and declare California a sanctuary state for LGBTQ youth. He has lived in San Francisco's historically LGBTQ Castro neighborhood since 1997. Twitter: @Scott_Wiener Learning how to train your mind is the single greatest investment you can make in life. That’s why Sam Harris created the Waking Up app. From rational mindfulness practice to lessons on some of life’s most important topics, join Sam as he demystifies the practice of meditation and explores the theory behind it.

Send us a Text Message.Meet The Godfather of Modern Causal InferenceHis work has pretty literally changed the course of my life and I am honored and incredibly grateful we could meet for this great conversation in his home in Los AngelesTo anybody who knows something about modern causal inference, he needs no introduction.He loves history, philosophy and music, and I believe it's fair to say that he's the godfather of modern causality.Ladies & gentlemen, please welcome, professor Judea Pearl.Subscribe to never miss an episodeAbout The GuestJudea Pearl is a computer scientist, and a creator of the Structural Causal Model (SCM) framework for causal inference. In 2011, he has been awarded the Turing Award, the highest distinction in computer science, for his pioneering works on Bayesian networks and graphical causal models and "fundamental contributions to artificial intelligence through the development of a calculus for probabilistic and causal reasoning".Connect with Judea:Judea on Twitter/XJudea's webpageAbout The HostAleksander (Alex) Molak is an independent machine learning researcher, educator, entrepreneur and a best-selling author in the area of causality.Connect with Alex:Alex on the Internet LinksPearl, J. - "The Book of Why"Kahneman, D. - "ThinkiShould we build the Causal Experts Network?Share your thoughts in the surveyAnything But LawDiscover inspiring stories and insights from entrepreneurs, athletes, and thought leaders.Listen on: Apple Podcasts SpotifySupport the Show.Causal Bandits PodcastCausal AI || Causal Machine Learning || Causal Inference & DiscoveryWeb: https://causalbanditspodcast.comConnect on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/aleksandermolak/Join Causal Python Weekly: https://causalpython.io The Causal Book: https://amzn.to/3QhsRz4

Episode 132I spoke with Manuel and Lenore Blum about:* Their early influences and mentors* The Conscious Turing Machine and what theoretical computer science can tell us about consciousnessEnjoy—and let me know what you think!Manuel is a pioneer in the field of theoretical computer science and the winner of the 1995 Turing Award in recognition of his contributions to the foundations of computational complexity theory and its applications to cryptography and program checking, a mathematical approach to writing programs that check their work. He worked as a professor of computer science at the University of California, Berkeley until 2001. From 2001 to 2018, he was the Bruce Nelson Professor of Computer Science at Carnegie Mellon University.Lenore is a Distinguished Career Professor of Computer Science, Emeritus at Carnegie Mellon University and former Professor-in-Residence in EECS at UC Berkeley. She is president of the Association for Mathematical Consciousness Science and newly elected member of the American Academy of Arts and Sciences. Lenore is internationally recognized for her work in increasing the participation of girls and women in Science, Technology, Engineering, and Math (STEM) fields. She was a founder of the Association for Women in Mathematics, and founding Co-Director (with Nancy Kreinberg) of the Math/Science Network and its Expanding Your Horizons conferences for middle- and high-school girls.Find me on Twitter for updates on new episodes, and reach me at editor@thegradient.pub for feedback, ideas, guest suggestions. I spend a lot of time on this podcast—if you like my work, you can support me on Patreon :) You can also support upkeep for the full Gradient team/project through a paid subscription on Substack!Subscribe to The Gradient Podcast:  Apple Podcasts  | Spotify | Pocket Casts | RSSFollow The Gradient on TwitterOutline:* (00:00) Intro* (03:09) Manuel's interest in consciousness* (05:55) More of the story — from memorization to derivation* (11:15) Warren McCulloch's mentorship* (14:00) McCulloch's anti-Freudianism* (15:57) More on McCulloch's influence* (27:10) On McCulloch and telling stories* (32:35) The Conscious Turing Machine (CTM)* (33:55) A last word on McCulloch* (35:20) Components of the CTM* (39:55) Advantages of the CTM model* (50:20) The problem of free will* (52:20) On pain* (1:01:10) Brainish / CTM's multimodal inner language, language and thinking* (1:13:55) The CTM's lack of a “central executive”* (1:18:10) Empiricism and a self, tournaments in the CTM* (1:26:30) Mental causation* (1:36:20) Expertise and the CTM model, role of TCS* (1:46:30) Dreams and dream experience* (1:50:15) Disentangling components of experience from multimodal language* (1:56:10) CTM Robot, meaning and symbols, embodiment and consciousness* (2:00:35) AGI, CTM and AI processors, capabilities* (2:09:30) CTM implications, potential worries* (2:17:15) Advice for younger (computer) scientists* (2:22:57) OutroLinks:* Manuel's homepage* Lenore's homepage; find Lenore on Twitter (https://x.com/blumlenore) and Linkedin (https://www.linkedin.com/in/lenore-blum-1a47224)* Articles* “The ‘Accidental Activist' Who Changed the Face of Mathematics” — Ben Brubaker's Q&A with Lenore* “How this Turing-Award-winning researcher became a legendary academic advisor” — Sheon Han's profile of Manuel* Papers (Manuel and Lenore)* AI Consciousness is Inevitable: A Theoretical Computer Science Perspective* A Theory of Consciousness from a Theoretical Computer Science Perspective: Insights from the Conscious Turing Machine* A Theoretical Computer Science Perspective on Consciousness and Artificial General Intelligence* References (McCulloch)* Embodiments of Mind* Rebel Genius Get full access to The Gradient at thegradientpub.substack.com/subscribe

We're excited to welcome to the podcast Leslie Valiant, a pioneering computer scientist and Turing Award winner renowned for his groundbreaking work in machine learning and computational learning theory. In his seminal 1983 paper, Leslie introduced the concept of Probably Approximately Correct or PAC learning, kick-starting a new era of research into what machines can learn. Now, in his latest book, The Importance of Being Educable: A New Theory of Human Uniqueness, Leslie builds upon his previous work to present a thought-provoking examination of what truly sets human intelligence apart. He introduces the concept of "educability" - our unparalleled ability as a species to absorb, apply, and share knowledge. Through an interplay of abstract learning algorithms and relatable examples, the book illuminates the fundamental differences between human and machine learning, arguing that while learning is computable, today's AI is still a far cry from human-level educability. Leslie advocates for greater investment in the science of learning and education to better understand and cultivate our species' unique intellectual gifts. In this conversation, we dive deep into the key ideas from The Importance of Being Educable and their profound implications for the future of both human and artificial intelligence. We explore questions like: What are the core components of educability that make human intelligence special? How can we design AI systems to augment rather than replace human learning? Why has the science of education lagged behind other fields, and what role can AI play in accelerating pedagogical research and practice? Should we be concerned about a potential "intelligence explosion" as machines grow more sophisticated, or are there limits to the power of AI? Let's dive into our conversation with Leslie Valiant. If you enjoy our podcasts, please subscribe and leave a positive rating or comment. Sharing your positive feedback helps us reach more people and connect them with the world's great minds. Subscribe to get Artificiality delivered to your email Learn about our book Make Better Decisions and buy it on Amazon Thanks to Jonathan Coulton for our music

My guest is Yann LeCun, a pioneering French-American computer scientist, known for his groundbreaking work in machine learning, computer vision, and neural networks. Yann is the Silver Professor at the Courant Institute of Mathematical Sciences at New York University and serves as the Vice President and Chief AI Scientist at Meta. Yann is one of the world's most influential computer scientists. He has accumulated over 350,000 citations on Google Scholar, he is one of the founding figures in the field of deep learning thanks to its contribution to convolutional neural networks and backpropagation algorithms, and he is a vocal proponent of open source. In recognition of his significant contributions to artificial intelligence, he was awarded the Turing Award in 2018, often referred to as the “Nobel Prize of Computing.” Our conversation is structured into three distinct parts. We begin by discussing the overarching dynamics in the AI space, then narrow our focus to the firm level, and finally, we conclude with an exploration of the challenges that lie ahead. By the end of this discussion, you will learn whether open source has a chance to make it in AI, the key factors for scaling an AI foundation model, the role ecosystems play in market dynamics, Meta long term strategy in the space, how concentration among chip manufacturers impacts AI companies, the current effect of the European AI Act on AI companies, what Yann would like to see regulators doing, and more. I hope you enjoy the conversation.

In this episode of ACM ByteCast, Rashmi Mohan hosts ACM A.M. Turing Award laureate Yoshua Bengio, Professor at the University of Montreal, and Founder and Scientific Director of MILA (Montreal Institute for Learning Algorithms) at the Quebec AI Institute. Yoshua shared the 2018 Turing Award with Geoffrey Hinton and Yann LeCun for their work on deep learning. He is also a published author and the most cited scientist in Computer Science. Previously, he founded Element AI, a Montreal-based artificial intelligence incubator that turns AI research into real-world business applications, acquired by ServiceNow. He currently serves as technical and scientific advisor to Recursion Pharmaceuticals and scientific advisor for Valence Discovery. He is a Fellow of ACM, the Royal Society, the Royal Society of Canada, Officer of the Order of Canada, and recipient of the Killam Prize, Marie-Victorin Quebec Prize, and Princess of Asturias Award. Yoshua also serves on the United Nations Scientific Advisory Board for Independent Advice on Breakthroughs in Science and Technology and as a Canada CIFAR AI Chair.  Yoshua traces his path in computing, from programming games in BASIC as an adolescent to getting interested in the synergy between the human brain and machines as a graduate student. He defines deep learning and talks about knowledge as the relationship between symbols, emphasizing that interdisciplinary collaborations with neuroscientists were key to innovations in DL. He notes his and his colleagues' surprise in the speed of recent breakthroughs with transformer architecture and large language models and talks at length about about artificial general intelligence (AGI) and the major risks it will present, such as loss of control, misalignment, and nationals security threats. Yoshua stresses that mitigating these will require both scientific and political solutions, offers advice for researchers, and shares what he is most excited about with the future of AI.

Today's guest is theoretical computer scientist Leslie Valiant - currently the T. Jefferson Coolidge Professor of Computer Science and Applied Mathematics at Harvard University. Among his many accolades, Leslie was awarded the Turing Award in 2010 for transformative contributions to the theory of computation, including the theory of PAC learning which stands for Probably Approximately Correct, as well as the complexity of enumeration and of algebraic computation, and the theory of parallel and distributed computing.In this episode, Leslie and I discuss his life and career journey – from what problems he has looked to solve in his career to how his PAC theory was first received and his latest book, The Importance of Being Educable.Have you ever wondered what your digital footprint says about you? Or curious how you can make your pitch stand out?Then check out WhiteBridge.ai – it's an AI-powered digital identity research tool that finds, verifies, and analyzes publicly collected data about someone and structures it into an insightful report.They actually ran a report on me and I was seriously impressed!But not only can you use it to check your online digital profile but you could use it to help you quickly research and understand other people whether it's a potential client, employee or investor – the report gives you more than enough useful info on the person for you to truly personalize your correspondence to them and help you build that early rapport.Want to learn more? Head to https://whitebridge.ai and use my discount code DANIELLE30 for 30% off your first report.Please enjoy my conversation with Leslie Valiant.

It's that time of year to do some spring cleaning, which includes your tech world as well. Nate came up with the very "helpful" acronym P.F.A.N.T.S.S. to help you think through the aspects of your technology world that could use some attention. Maybe this will be the year that we practice what we preach! After that, we'll get you caught up with what's going on in the world of tech and provide some helpful tips and picks so that you can tech better! Watch on YouTube! INTRO (00:00) Spring Cleaning Your P.F.A.N.T.S.S. (09:40) Physical Files Apps Notifications Time Subscriptions Security DAVE'S PRO-TIP OF THE WEEK: Photo album duplicates (31:30) JUST THE HEADLINES: (36:25) Apple alerts users in 92 nations to mercenary spyware attacks Taylor Swift Songs Return to TikTok Walmart will deploy robotic forklifts in its distribution centers Microsoft starts testing ads in the Windows 11 Start menu The Motion Picture Association has big plans to crack down on movie piracy again Chechnya is banning music that's too fast or slow Computer scientist wins Turing Award for seminal work on randomness TAKES: Humane AI Pin review: not even close (37:45) Macs with AI-focused M4 chip launching this year (41:25) April's Patch Tuesday Brings Record Number of Fixes (44:05) BONUS ODD TAKE: Neal.fun - Who Was Alive? (45:50) PICKS OF THE WEEK: Dave: Gemini 2 - Duplicate File Finder (50:25) Nate: Udio.com - AI Music Generation (53:15) RAMAZON PURCHASE - Giveaway! (59:10) Find us elsewhere: https://notpicks.com https://notnerd.com https://www.youtube.com/c/Notnerd https://www.instagram.com/n0tnerd https://www.facebook.com/n0tnerd/ info@Notnerd.com

Science is enabled by the fact that the natural world exhibits predictability and regularity, at least to some extent. Scientists collect data about what happens in the world, then try to suggest "laws" that capture many phenomena in simple rules. A small irony is that, while we are looking for nice compact rules, there aren't really nice compact rules about how to go about doing that. Today's guest, Leslie Valiant, has been a pioneer in understanding how computers can and do learn things about the world. And in his new book, The Importance of Being Educable, he pinpoints this ability to learn new things as the crucial feature that distinguishes us as human beings. We talk about where that capability came from and what its role is as artificial intelligence becomes ever more prevalent.Blog post with transcript: https://www.preposterousuniverse.com/podcast/2024/04/15/272-leslie-valiant-on-learning-and-educability-in-computers-and-people/Support Mindscape on Patreon.Leslie Valiant received his Ph.D. in computer science from Warwick University. He is currently the T. Jefferson Coolidge Professor of Computer Science and Applied Mathematics at Harvard University. He has been awarded a Guggenheim Fellowship, the Knuth Prize, and the Turing Award, and he is a member of the National Academy of Sciences as well as a Fellow of the Royal Society and the American Association for the Advancement of Science. He is the pioneer of "Probably Approximately Correct" learning, which he wrote about in a book of the same name.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Yann LeCun is the Chief AI Scientist at Meta, professor at NYU, Turing Award winner, and one of the most influential researchers in the history of AI. Please support this podcast by checking out our sponsors: - HiddenLayer: https://hiddenlayer.com/lex - LMNT: https://drinkLMNT.com/lex to get free sample pack - Shopify: https://shopify.com/lex to get $1 per month trial - AG1: https://drinkag1.com/lex to get 1 month supply of fish oil EPISODE LINKS: Yann's Twitter: https://twitter.com/ylecun Yann's Facebook: https://facebook.com/yann.lecun Meta AI: https://ai.meta.com/ PODCAST INFO: Podcast website: https://lexfridman.com/podcast Apple Podcasts: https://apple.co/2lwqZIr Spotify: https://spoti.fi/2nEwCF8 RSS: https://lexfridman.com/feed/podcast/ YouTube Full Episodes: https://youtube.com/lexfridman YouTube Clips: https://youtube.com/lexclips SUPPORT & CONNECT: - Check out the sponsors above, it's the best way to support this podcast - Support on Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/lexfridman - Twitter: https://twitter.com/lexfridman - Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/lexfridman - LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lexfridman - Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/lexfridman - Medium: https://medium.com/@lexfridman OUTLINE: Here's the timestamps for the episode. On some podcast players you should be able to click the timestamp to jump to that time. (00:00) - Introduction (09:10) - Limits of LLMs (20:47) - Bilingualism and thinking (24:39) - Video prediction (31:59) - JEPA (Joint-Embedding Predictive Architecture) (35:08) - JEPA vs LLMs (44:24) - DINO and I-JEPA (45:44) - V-JEPA (51:15) - Hierarchical planning (57:33) - Autoregressive LLMs (1:12:59) - AI hallucination (1:18:23) - Reasoning in AI (1:35:55) - Reinforcement learning (1:41:02) - Woke AI (1:50:41) - Open source (1:54:19) - AI and ideology (1:56:50) - Marc Andreesen (2:04:49) - Llama 3 (2:11:13) - AGI (2:15:41) - AI doomers (2:31:31) - Joscha Bach (2:35:44) - Humanoid robots (2:44:52) - Hope for the future

The development of artificial intelligence naturally leads us to deeply explore what intelligence, reasoning and knowledge are; the processes required to achieve them; and the implications that has for human thought, belief and decision making—all topics that have been deeply thought about by our guest, Leslie Valiant, Harvard University Professor of Computer Science and Applied Mathematics. Professor Valiant is the winner of the 2010 A.M. Turing Award and author of three books, including his recent book: The Importance of Being Educable-a New Theory of Human Uniqueness.

Welcome to The Nonlinear Library, where we use Text-to-Speech software to convert the best writing from the Rationalist and EA communities into audio. This is: My cover story in Jacobin on AI capitalism and the x-risk debates, published by Garrison on February 13, 2024 on The Effective Altruism Forum. Google cofounder Larry Page thinks superintelligent AI is "just the next step in evolution." In fact, Page, who's worth about $120 billion, has reportedly argued that efforts to prevent AI-driven extinction and protect human consciousness are "speciesist" and " sentimental nonsense." In July, former Google DeepMind senior scientist Richard Sutton - one of the pioneers of reinforcement learning, a major subfield of AI said that the technology "could displace us from existence," and that "we should not resist succession." In a 2015 talk, Sutton said, suppose "everything fails" and AI "kill[s] us all"; he asked, "Is it so bad that humans are not the final form of intelligent life in the universe?" This is how I begin the cover story for Jacobin's winter issue on AI. Some very influential people openly welcome an AI-driven future, even if humans aren't part of it. Whether you're new to the topic or work in the field, I think you'll get something out of it. I spent five months digging into the AI existential risk debates and the economic forces driving AI development. This was the most ambitious story of my career - it was informed by interviews and written conversations with three dozen people - and I'm thrilled to see it out in the world. Some of the people include: Deep learning pioneer and Turing Award winner Yoshua Bengio Pathbreaking AI ethics researchers Joy Buolamwini and Inioluwa Deborah Raji Reinforcement learning pioneer Richard Sutton Cofounder of the AI safety field Eliezer Yudkowksy Renowned philosopher of mind David Chalmers Sante Fe Institute complexity professor Melanie Mitchell Researchers from leading AI labs Some of the most powerful industrialists and companies are plowing enormous amounts of money and effort into increasing the capabilities and autonomy of AI systems, all while acknowledging that superhuman AI could literally wipe out humanity: Bizarrely, many of the people actively advancing AI capabilities think there's a significant chance that doing so will ultimately cause the apocalypse. A 2022 survey of machine learning researchers found that nearly half of them thought there was at least a 10 percent chance advanced AI could lead to "human extinction or [a] similarly permanent and severe disempowerment" of humanity. Just months before he cofounded OpenAI, Altman said, "AI will probably most likely lead to the end of the world, but in the meantime, there'll be great companies." This is a pretty crazy situation! But not everyone agrees that AI could cause human extinction. Some think that the idea itself causes more harm than good: Some fear not the "sci-fi" scenario where AI models get so capable they wrest control from our feeble grasp, but instead that we will entrust biased, brittle, and confabulating systems with too much responsibility, opening a more pedestrian Pandora's box full of awful but familiar problems that scale with the algorithms causing them. This community of researchers and advocates - often labeled "AI ethics" - tends to focus on the immediate harms being wrought by AI, exploring solutions involving model accountability, algorithmic transparency, and machine learning fairness. Others buy the idea of transformative AI, but think it's going to be great: A third camp worries that when it comes to AI, we're not actually moving fast enough. Prominent capitalists like billionaire Marc Andreessen agree with safety folks that AGI is possible but argue that, rather than killing us all, it will usher in an indefinite golden age of radical abundance and borderline magical technologies. This group, largely coming from Silicon Valley and commonly referred to as AI boosters, tends to worry far mo...

Welcome to The Nonlinear Library, where we use Text-to-Speech software to convert the best writing from the Rationalist and EA communities into audio. This is: EA Wins 2023, published by Shakeel Hashim on December 31, 2023 on The Effective Altruism Forum. Crossposted from Twitter. As the year comes to an end, we want to highlight and celebrate some of the incredible achievements from in and around the effective altruism ecosystem this year. 1. A new malaria vaccine The World Health Organization recommended its second-ever malaria vaccine this year: R21/Matrix-M, designed to protect babies and young children from malaria. The drug's recently concluded Phase III trial, which was co-funded by Open Philanthropy, found that the vaccine was between 68-75% effective at targeting the disease, which kills around 600,000 people (mainly children) each year. The work didn't stop there, though. Following advocacy from many people - including Zacharia Kafuko of 1 Day Sooner - the WHO quickly prequalified the vaccine, laying the groundwork for an expedited deployment and potentially saving hundreds of thousands of children's lives. 1 Day Sooner is now working to raise money to expedite the deployment further. 2. The Supreme Court upholds an animal welfare law In 2018, Californians voted for Proposition 12 - a bill that banned intensive cage confinement and the sale of animal products from animals in intensive confinement. The meat industry challenged the law for being unconstitutional - but in May of this year, the US Supreme Court upheld Prop 12, a decision that will improve the lives of millions of animals who would otherwise be kept in cruel and inhumane conditions. Organizations such as The Humane League - one of Animal Charity Evaluators' top charities - are a major part of this victory; their tireless campaigning is part of what made Prop 12 happen. Watch a panel discussion featuring The Humane League at EAG London 2023 here. 3. AI safety goes mainstream 2023 was the year AI safety went mainstream. After years of work from people in and around effective altruism, this year saw hundreds of high-profile AI experts - including two Turing Award winners say that "mitigating the risk of extinction from AI should be a global priority". That was followed by a flurry of activity from policymakers, including a US Executive Order, an international AI Safety Summit, the establishment of the UK Frontier AI Taskforce, and a deal on the EU AI Act - which, thanks to the efforts of campaigners, is now going to regulate foundation models that pose a systemic risk to society. Important progress was made in technical AI safety, too, including work on adversarial robustness, mechanistic interpretability, and lie detection. Watch a talk from EAG Boston 2023 on technical AI safety here. 4. Results from the world's largest UBI study Since 2018, GiveDirectly - an organization that distributes direct cash transfers to those in need - has been running the world's largest universal basic income experiment in rural Kenya. In September, researchers led by MIT economist Taveneet Suri and Nobel laureate Abhijit Banerjee, published their latest analysis of the data - finding that giving people money as a lump sum leads to better results than dispersing it via monthly payments. Long-term UBI was also found to be highly effective and didn't discourage work. The results could have significant implications for how governments disburse cash aid. Watch GiveDirectly's talk at EAGx Nordics 2023. 5. Cultivated meat approved for sale in US After years of work from organizations like the Good Food Institute, in June 2023 the USDA finally approved cultivated meat for sale in the US. The watershed moment made the US the second country (after Singapore) to legalize the product, which could have significant impacts on animal welfare by reducing the number of animals that need to be raised and killed for meat. Watch the Good Food Institute's Bruce Friedrich talk about alternative ...

This episode is sponsored by Oracle. AI is revolutionizing industries, but needs power without breaking the bank. Enter Oracle Cloud Infrastructure (OCI): the one-stop platform for all your AI needs, with 4-8x the bandwidth of other clouds. Train AI models faster and at half the cost. Be ahead like Uber and Cohere. If you want to do more and spend less like Uber, 8x8, and Databricks Mosaic - take a free test drive of OCI at https://oracle.com/eyeonai   Welcome to episode 150 of the ‘Eye on AI' podcast. In this episode, host Craig Smith sits down with Yann LeCun, a Turing Award winner who has been instrumental in advancing convolutional neural networks and whose work spans machine learning, computer vision, and more. Tune is as Craig and Yann explore the intricacies of AI, world models, and the challenges of continuous learning. In this episode, Yann delves deep into the concept of a "world model" - systems that can predict the world's future states, allowing agents to make informed decisions. The discussion transitions to the challenges of training these models, particularly when dealing with diverse data like text and images. We then discuss the computational demands of modern AI models, with Yann highlighting the nuances between generative models for videos and language.  He also touches upon the idea of the "Embodied Turing Tests" and how augmented language models can bridge the gap between human-like behavior and computational efficiency.The spotlight then shifts to pressing concerns surrounding the open-source nature of AI models, with Yann articulating the legal ramifications and the future of open-source AI. Drawing from global perspectives, including China's stance on open-source, Yann underscores the imperative for a collaborative approach in the AI space, ensuring it's reflective of diverse global needs.   Craig Smith Twitter: https://twitter.com/craigss Eye on A.I. Twitter: https://twitter.com/EyeOn_AI   (00:00) Preview, Oracle and Introduction (02:42) Decoding The World Model and Gaia 1  (07:43) Energy and Computational Demands of AI (08:06) Video vs. Text Processing & True AI Capabilities (11:17) Embodied Turing Test & Augmented LLMs (15:38) Is AI a Threat To Society? (25:04) Where is AI Development Headed? (31:06) Interplay of Neuroscience and AI** (33:33) Yann's Vision, JEPA, and Learning Challenges (39:05) Yann's Career, AI Progress, and Challenges (44:47) The Open Source Debate in AI (55:30) Oracle Cloud Infrastructure

Welcome to our second Design Better episode on the creative process. You may not know Ed Catmull's name, but there's almost no doubt you're familiar with his work. As the co-founder of Pixar, he's responsible for helping to create movies ranging from the original Toy Story on through The Incredibles, Wall-E, Moana, and Inside Out.  Ed has a background in computer science, and as someone who pioneered many of the computer graphics and digital animation techniques that we now take for granted, he has a unique perspective on the intersection of technology and creativity. We chat with Ed about his transition from creating things himself, to leading creative teams; the elements of a sustainable creative culture, and how to give people feedback so they'll actually listen to you. Ed also collaborated with Steve Jobs longer than probably anyone else who knew him—for over 30 years—and we hear some stories that haven't been told anywhere else.  One more quick thing before we go: we have some amazing guests lined up for our upcoming AMAs, like Judy Wert Debbie Millman, which are filling up quickly. Go to our events page and you can register for free. Show notes: https://designbetterpodcast.com/p/ed-catmull-the-journey-from-lucasfilm#details Bio Dr. Ed Catmull is co-founder of Pixar Animation Studios and the former president of Pixar, Walt Disney Animation Studios, and Disneytoon Studios. For over twenty-five years, Pixar has dominated the world of animation, producing #1 box office hits that include iconic works such as Toy Story, Frozen, Cars, and The Incredibles. Pixar's works have grossed more than $14 billion at the worldwide box office, and won twenty-three Academy Awards®, 10 Golden Globes Awards, and 11 Grammys, among countless other achievements. Dr. Ed Catmull's book Creativity, Inc.—co-written with journalist Amy Wallace and years in the making—is a distillation of the ideas and management principles he has used to develop a creative culture. A book for managers who want to encourage a growth mindset and lead their employees to new heights, it also grants readers an all-access trip into the nerve center of Pixar Animation Studios—into the meetings, postmortems, and “Braintrust” sessions where some of the most successful films in history have been made. Dr. Catmull has been honored with five Academy Awards®, including an Oscar of Lifetime Achievement for his technical contributions and leadership in the field of computer graphics for the motion picture industry. He also has been awarded the Turing Award by the world's largest society of computing professionals, the Association for Computing Machinery, for his work on three-dimensional computer graphics. Please visit the links below to help support our show: Methodical Coffee: Roasted, blended, brewed, served and perfected by verified coffee nerds

Leslie Lamport is a computer scientist & mathematician who won ACM's Turing Award in 2013 for his fundamental contributions to the theory and practice of distributed and concurrent systems. He also created LaTeX and TLA+, a high-level language for “writing down the ideas that go into the program before you do any coding.”

Sam Altman, CEO of OpenAI, which created ChatGPT, says that AI is a powerful tool that will streamline human work and quicken the pace of scientific advancement  But ChatGPT has both enthralled and terrified us, and even some of AI's pioneers are freaked out by it – by how quickly the technology has advanced.  David Remnick talks with Altman, and with computer scientist Yoshua Bengio, who won the prestigious Turing Award for his work in 2018, but recently signed an open letter calling for a moratorium on some AI research until regulation can be implemented. The stakes, Bengio says, are high. “I believe there is a non-negligible risk that this kind of technology, in the short term, could disrupt democracies.” 

Episode 165 of A History of Rock Music in Five Hundred Songs looks at “Dark Stat” and the career of the Grateful Dead. This is a long one, even longer than the previous episode, but don't worry, that won't be the norm. There's a reason these two were much longer than average. Click the full post to read liner notes, links to more information, and a transcript of the episode. Patreon backers also have a twenty-minute bonus episode available, on "Codine" by the Charlatans. Errata I mispronounce Brent Mydland's name as Myland a couple of times, and in the introduction I say "Touch of Grey" came out in 1988 -- I later, correctly, say 1987. (I seem to have had a real problem with dates in the intro -- I also originally talked about "Blue Suede Shoes" being in 1954 before fixing it in the edit to be 1956) Resources No Mixcloud this week, as there are too many songs by the Grateful Dead, and Grayfolded runs to two hours. I referred to a lot of books for this episode, partly because almost everything about the Grateful Dead is written from a fannish perspective that already assumes background knowledge, rather than to provide that background knowledge. Of the various books I used, Dennis McNally's biography of the band and This Is All a Dream We Dreamed: An Oral History of the Grateful Dead by Blair Jackson and David Gans are probably most useful for the casually interested. Other books on the Dead I used included McNally's Jerry on Jerry, a collection of interviews with Garcia; Deal, Bill Kreutzmann's autobiography; The Grateful Dead FAQ by Tony Sclafani; So Many Roads by David Browne; Deadology by Howard F. Weiner; Fare Thee Well by Joel Selvin and Pamela Turley; and Skeleton Key: A Dictionary for Deadheads by David Shenk and Steve Silberman. Tom Wolfe's The Electric Kool-Aid Acid Test is the classic account of the Pranksters, though not always reliable. I reference Slaughterhouse Five a lot. As well as the novel itself, which everyone should read, I also read this rather excellent graphic novel adaptation, and The Writer's Crusade, a book about the writing of the novel. I also reference Ted Sturgeon's More Than Human. For background on the scene around Astounding Science Fiction which included Sturgeon, John W. Campbell, L. Ron Hubbard, and many other science fiction writers, I recommend Alec Nevala-Lee's Astounding. 1,000 True Fans can be read online, as can the essay on the Californian ideology, and John Perry Barlow's "Declaration of the Independence of Cyberspace". The best collection of Grateful Dead material is the box set The Golden Road, which contains all the albums released in Pigpen's lifetime along with a lot of bonus material, but which appears currently out of print. Live/Dead contains both the live version of "Dark Star" which made it well known and, as a CD bonus track, the original single version. And archive.org has more live recordings of the group than you can possibly ever listen to. Grayfolded can be bought from John Oswald's Bandcamp Patreon This podcast is brought to you by the generosity of my backers on Patreon. Why not join them? Transcript [Excerpt: Tuning from "Grayfolded", under the warnings Before we begin -- as we're tuning up, as it were, I should mention that this episode contains discussions of alcoholism, drug addiction, racism, nonconsensual drugging of other people, and deaths from drug abuse, suicide, and car accidents. As always, I try to deal with these subjects as carefully as possible, but if you find any of those things upsetting you may wish to read the transcript rather than listen to this episode, or skip it altogether. Also, I should note that the members of the Grateful Dead were much freer with their use of swearing in interviews than any other band we've covered so far, and that makes using quotes from them rather more difficult than with other bands, given the limitations of the rules imposed to stop the podcast being marked as adult. If I quote anything with a word I can't use here, I'll give a brief pause in the audio, and in the transcript I'll have the word in square brackets. [tuning ends] All this happened, more or less. In 1910, T. S. Eliot started work on "The Love Song of J. Alfred Prufrock", which at the time was deemed barely poetry, with one reviewer imagining Eliot saying "I'll just put down the first thing that comes into my head, and call it 'The Love Song of J. Alfred Prufrock.'" It is now considered one of the great classics of modernist literature. In 1969, Kurt Vonnegut wrote "Slaughterhouse-Five, or, The Children's Crusade: A Duty-Dance with Death", a book in which the protagonist, Billy Pilgrim, comes unstuck in time, and starts living a nonlinear life, hopping around between times reliving his experiences in the Second World War, and future experiences up to 1976 after being kidnapped by beings from the planet Tralfamadore. Or perhaps he has flashbacks and hallucinations after having a breakdown from PTSD. It is now considered one of the great classics of modernist literature or of science fiction, depending on how you look at it. In 1953, Theodore Sturgeon wrote More Than Human. It is now considered one of the great classics of science fiction. In 1950, L. Ron Hubbard wrote Dianetics: The Modern Science of Mental Health. It is now considered either a bad piece of science fiction or one of the great revelatory works of religious history, depending on how you look at it. In 1994, 1995, and 1996 the composer John Oswald released, first as two individual CDs and then as a double-CD, an album called Grayfolded, which the composer says in the liner notes he thinks of as existing in Tralfamadorian time. The Tralfamadorians in Vonnegut's novels don't see time as a linear thing with a beginning and end, but as a continuum that they can move between at will. When someone dies, they just think that at this particular point in time they're not doing so good, but at other points in time they're fine, so why focus on the bad time? In the book, when told of someone dying, the Tralfamadorians just say "so it goes". In between the first CD's release and the release of the double-CD version, Jerry Garcia died. From August 1942 through August 1995, Jerry Garcia was alive. So it goes. Shall we go, you and I? [Excerpt: The Grateful Dead, "Dark Star (Omni 3/30/94)"] "One principle has become clear. Since motives are so frequently found in combination, it is essential that the complex types be analyzed and arranged, with an eye kept single nevertheless to the master-theme under discussion. Collectors, both primary and subsidiary, have done such valiant service that the treasures at our command are amply sufficient for such studies, so extensive, indeed, that the task of going through them thoroughly has become too great for the unassisted student. It cannot be too strongly urged that a single theme in its various types and compounds must be made predominant in any useful comparative study. This is true when the sources and analogues of any literary work are treated; it is even truer when the bare motive is discussed. The Grateful Dead furnishes an apt illustration of the necessity of such handling. It appears in a variety of different combinations, almost never alone. Indeed, it is so widespread a tale, and its combinations are so various, that there is the utmost difficulty in determining just what may properly be regarded the original kernel of it, the simple theme to which other motives were joined. Various opinions, as we shall see, have been held with reference to this matter, most of them justified perhaps by the materials in the hands of the scholars holding them, but none quite adequate in view of later evidence." That's a quote from The Grateful Dead: The History of a Folk Story, by Gordon Hall Gerould, published in 1908. Kurt Vonnegut's novel Slaughterhouse-Five opens with a chapter about the process of writing the novel itself, and how difficult it was. He says "I would hate to tell you what this lousy little book cost me in money and anxiety and time. When I got home from the Second World War twenty-three years ago, I thought it would be easy for me to write about the destruction of Dresden, since all I would have to do would be to report what I had seen. And I thought, too, that it would be a masterpiece or at least make me a lot of money, since the subject was so big." This is an episode several of my listeners have been looking forward to, but it's one I've been dreading writing, because this is an episode -- I think the only one in the series -- where the format of the podcast simply *will not* work. Were the Grateful Dead not such an important band, I would skip this episode altogether, but they're a band that simply can't be ignored, and that's a real problem here. Because my intent, always, with this podcast, is to present the recordings of the artists in question, put them in context, and explain why they were important, what their music meant to its listeners. To put, as far as is possible, the positive case for why the music mattered *in the context of its time*. Not why it matters now, or why it matters to me, but why it matters *in its historical context*. Whether I like the music or not isn't the point. Whether it stands up now isn't the point. I play the music, explain what it was they were doing, why they were doing it, what people saw in it. If I do my job well, you come away listening to "Blue Suede Shoes" the way people heard it in 1956, or "Good Vibrations" the way people heard it in 1966, and understanding why people were so impressed by those records. That is simply *not possible* for the Grateful Dead. I can present a case for them as musicians, and hope to do so. I can explain the appeal as best I understand it, and talk about things I like in their music, and things I've noticed. But what I can't do is present their recordings the way they were received in the sixties and explain why they were popular. Because every other act I have covered or will cover in this podcast has been a *recording* act, and their success was based on records. They may also have been exceptional live performers, but James Brown or Ike and Tina Turner are remembered for great *records*, like "Papa's Got a Brand New Bag" or "River Deep, Mountain High". Their great moments were captured on vinyl, to be listened back to, and susceptible of analysis. That is not the case for the Grateful Dead, and what is worse *they explicitly said, publicly, on multiple occasions* that it is not possible for me to understand their art, and thus that it is not possible for me to explain it. The Grateful Dead did make studio records, some of them very good. But they always said, consistently, over a thirty year period, that their records didn't capture what they did, and that the only way -- the *only* way, they were very clear about this -- that one could actually understand and appreciate their music, was to see them live, and furthermore to see them live while on psychedelic drugs. [Excerpt: Grateful Dead crowd noise] I never saw the Grateful Dead live -- their last UK performance was a couple of years before I went to my first ever gig -- and I have never taken a psychedelic substance. So by the Grateful Dead's own criteria, it is literally impossible for me to understand or explain their music the way that it should be understood or explained. In a way I'm in a similar position to the one I was in with La Monte Young in the last episode, whose music it's mostly impossible to experience without being in his presence. This is one reason of several why I placed these two episodes back to back. Of course, there is a difference between Young and the Grateful Dead. The Grateful Dead allowed -- even encouraged -- the recording of their live performances. There are literally thousands of concert recordings in circulation, many of them of professional quality. I have listened to many of those, and I can hear what they were doing. I can tell you what *I* think is interesting about their music, and about their musicianship. And I think I can build up a good case for why they were important, and why they're interesting, and why those recordings are worth listening to. And I can certainly explain the cultural phenomenon that was the Grateful Dead. But just know that while I may have found *a* point, *an* explanation for why the Grateful Dead were important, by the band's own lights and those of their fans, no matter how good a job I do in this episode, I *cannot* get it right. And that is, in itself, enough of a reason for this episode to exist, and for me to try, even harder than I normally do, to get it right *anyway*. Because no matter how well I do my job this episode will stand as an example of why this series is called "*A* History", not *the* history. Because parts of the past are ephemeral. There are things about which it's true to say "You had to be there". I cannot know what it was like to have been an American the day Kennedy was shot, I cannot know what it was like to be alive when a man walked on the Moon. Those are things nobody my age or younger can ever experience. And since August the ninth, 1995, the experience of hearing the Grateful Dead's music the way they wanted it heard has been in that category. And that is by design. Jerry Garcia once said "if you work really hard as an artist, you may be able to build something they can't tear down, you know, after you're gone... What I want to do is I want it here. I want it now, in this lifetime. I want what I enjoy to last as long as I do and not last any longer. You know, I don't want something that ends up being as much a nuisance as it is a work of art, you know?" And there's another difficulty. There are only two points in time where it makes sense to do a podcast episode on the Grateful Dead -- late 1967 and early 1968, when the San Francisco scene they were part of was at its most culturally relevant, and 1988 when they had their only top ten hit and gained their largest audience. I can't realistically leave them out of the story until 1988, so it has to be 1968. But the songs they are most remembered for are those they wrote between 1970 and 1972, and those songs are influenced by artists and events we haven't yet covered in the podcast, who will be getting their own episodes in the future. I can't explain those things in this episode, because they need whole episodes of their own. I can't not explain them without leaving out important context for the Grateful Dead. So the best I can do is treat the story I'm telling as if it were in Tralfamadorian time. All of it's happening all at once, and some of it is happening in different episodes that haven't been recorded yet. The podcast as a whole travels linearly from 1938 through to 1999, but this episode is happening in 1968 and 1972 and 1988 and 1995 and other times, all at once. Sometimes I'll talk about things as if you're already familiar with them, but they haven't happened yet in the story. Feel free to come unstuck in time and revisit this time after episode 167, and 172, and 176, and 192, and experience it again. So this has to be an experimental episode. It may well be an experiment that you think fails. If so, the next episode is likely to be far more to your taste, and much shorter than this or the last episode, two episodes that between them have to create a scaffolding on which will hang much of the rest of this podcast's narrative. I've finished my Grateful Dead script now. The next one I write is going to be fun: [Excerpt: Grateful Dead, "Dark Star"] Infrastructure means everything. How we get from place to place, how we transport goods, information, and ourselves, makes a big difference in how society is structured, and in the music we hear. For many centuries, the prime means of long-distance transport was by water -- sailing ships on the ocean, canal boats and steamboats for inland navigation -- and so folk songs talked about the ship as both means of escape, means of making a living, and in some senses as a trap. You'd go out to sea for adventure, or to escape your problems, but you'd find that the sea itself brought its own problems. Because of this we have a long, long tradition of sea shanties which are known throughout the world: [Excerpt: A. L. Lloyd, "Off to Sea Once More"] But in the nineteenth century, the railway was invented and, at least as far as travel within a landmass goes, it replaced the steamboat in the popular imaginary. Now the railway was how you got from place to place, and how you moved freight from one place to another. The railway brought freedom, and was an opportunity for outlaws, whether train robbers or a romanticised version of the hobo hopping onto a freight train and making his way to new lands and new opportunity. It was the train that brought soldiers home from wars, and the train that allowed the Great Migration of Black people from the South to the industrial North. There would still be songs about the riverboats, about how ol' man river keeps rolling along and about the big river Johnny Cash sang about, but increasingly they would be songs of the past, not the present. The train quickly replaced the steamboat in the iconography of what we now think of as roots music -- blues, country, folk, and early jazz music. Sometimes this was very literal. Furry Lewis' "Kassie Jones" -- about a legendary train driver who would break the rules to make sure his train made the station on time, but who ended up sacrificing his own life to save his passengers in a train crash -- is based on "Alabamy Bound", which as we heard in the episode on "Stagger Lee", was about steamboats: [Excerpt: Furry Lewis, "Kassie Jones"] In the early episodes of this podcast we heard many, many, songs about the railway. Louis Jordan saying "take me right back to the track, Jack", Rosetta Tharpe singing about how "this train don't carry no gamblers", the trickster freight train driver driving on the "Rock Island Line", the mystery train sixteen coaches long, the train that kept-a-rollin' all night long, the Midnight Special which the prisoners wished would shine its ever-loving light on them, and the train coming past Folsom Prison whose whistle makes Johnny Cash hang his head and cry. But by the 1960s, that kind of song had started to dry up. It would happen on occasion -- "People Get Ready" by the Impressions is the most obvious example of the train metaphor in an important sixties record -- but by the late sixties the train was no longer a symbol of freedom but of the past. In 1969 Harry Nilsson sang about how "Nobody Cares About the Railroads Any More", and in 1968 the Kinks sang about "The Last of the Steam-Powered Trains". When in 1968 Merle Haggard sang about a freight train, it was as a memory, of a child with hopes that ended up thwarted by reality and his own nature: [Excerpt: Merle Haggard, "Mama Tried"] And the reason for this was that there had been another shift, a shift that had started in the forties and accelerated in the late fifties but had taken a little time to ripple through the culture. Now the train had been replaced in the popular imaginary by motorised transport. Instead of hopping on a train without paying, if you had no money in your pocket you'd have to hitch-hike all the way. Freedom now meant individuality. The ultimate in freedom was the biker -- the Hell's Angels who could go anywhere, unburdened by anything -- and instead of goods being moved by freight train, increasingly they were being moved by truck drivers. By the mid-seventies, truck drivers took a central place in American life, and the most romantic way to live life was to live it on the road. On The Road was also the title of a 1957 novel by Jack Kerouac, which was one of the first major signs of this cultural shift in America. Kerouac was writing about events in the late forties and early fifties, but his book was also a precursor of the sixties counterculture. He wrote the book on one continuous sheet of paper, as a stream of consciousness. Kerouac died in 1969 of an internal haemmorage brought on by too much alcohol consumption. So it goes. But the big key to this cultural shift was caused by the Federal-Aid Highway Act of 1956, a massive infrastructure spending bill that led to the construction of the modern American Interstate Highway system. This accelerated a program that had already started, of building much bigger, safer, faster roads. It also, as anyone who has read Robert Caro's The Power Broker knows, reinforced segregation and white flight. It did this both by making commuting into major cities from the suburbs easier -- thus allowing white people with more money to move further away from the cities and still work there -- and by bulldozing community spaces where Black people lived. More than a million people lost their homes and were forcibly moved, and orders of magnitude more lost their communities' parks and green spaces. And both as a result of deliberate actions and unconscious bigotry, the bulk of those affected were Black people -- who often found themselves, if they weren't forced to move, on one side of a ten-lane highway where the park used to be, with white people on the other side of the highway. The Federal-Aid Highway Act gave even more power to the unaccountable central planners like Robert Moses, the urban planner in New York who managed to become arguably the most powerful man in the city without ever getting elected, partly by slowly compromising away his early progressive ideals in the service of gaining more power. Of course, not every new highway was built through areas where poor Black people lived. Some were planned to go through richer areas for white people, just because you can't completely do away with geographical realities. For example one was planned to be built through part of San Francisco, a rich, white part. But the people who owned properties in that area had enough political power and clout to fight the development, and after nearly a decade of fighting it, the development was called off in late 1966. But over that time, many of the owners of the impressive buildings in the area had moved out, and they had no incentive to improve or maintain their properties while they were under threat of demolition, so many of them were rented out very cheaply. And when the beat community that Kerouac wrote about, many of whom had settled in San Francisco, grew too large and notorious for the area of the city they were in, North Beach, many of them moved to these cheap homes in a previously-exclusive area. The area known as Haight-Ashbury. [Excerpt: The Grateful Dead, "Grayfolded"] Stories all have their starts, even stories told in Tralfamadorian time, although sometimes those starts are shrouded in legend. For example, the story of Scientology's start has been told many times, with different people claiming to have heard L. Ron Hubbard talk about how writing was a mug's game, and if you wanted to make real money, you needed to get followers, start a religion. Either he said this over and over and over again, to many different science fiction writers, or most science fiction writers of his generation were liars. Of course, the definition of a writer is someone who tells lies for money, so who knows? One of the more plausible accounts of him saying that is given by Theodore Sturgeon. Sturgeon's account is more believable than most, because Sturgeon went on to be a supporter of Dianetics, the "new science" that Hubbard turned into his religion, for decades, even while telling the story. The story of the Grateful Dead probably starts as it ends, with Jerry Garcia. There are three things that everyone writing about the Dead says about Garcia's childhood, so we might as well say them here too. The first is that he was named by a music-loving father after Jerome Kern, the songwriter responsible for songs like "Ol' Man River" (though as Oscar Hammerstein's widow liked to point out, "Jerome Kern wrote dum-dum-dum-dum, *my husband* wrote 'Ol' Man River'" -- an important distinction we need to bear in mind when talking about songwriters who write music but not lyrics). The second is that when he was five years old that music-loving father drowned -- and Garcia would always say he had seen his father dying, though some sources claim this was a false memory. So it goes. And the third fact, which for some reason is always told after the second even though it comes before it chronologically, is that when he was four he lost two joints from his right middle finger. Garcia grew up a troubled teen, and in turn caused trouble for other people, but he also developed a few interests that would follow him through his life. He loved the fantastical, especially the fantastical macabre, and became an avid fan of horror and science fiction -- and through his love of old monster films he became enamoured with cinema more generally. Indeed, in 1983 he bought the film rights to Kurt Vonnegut's science fiction novel The Sirens of Titan, the first story in which the Tralfamadorians appear, and wrote a script based on it. He wanted to produce the film himself, with Francis Ford Coppola directing and Bill Murray starring, but most importantly for him he wanted to prevent anyone who didn't care about it from doing it badly. And in that he succeeded. As of 2023 there is no film of The Sirens of Titan. He loved to paint, and would continue that for the rest of his life, with one of his favourite subjects being Boris Karloff as the Frankenstein monster. And when he was eleven or twelve, he heard for the first time a record that was hugely influential to a whole generation of Californian musicians, even though it was a New York record -- "Gee" by the Crows: [Excerpt: The Crows, "Gee"] Garcia would say later "That was an important song. That was the first kind of, like where the voices had that kind of not-trained-singer voices, but tough-guy-on-the-street voice." That record introduced him to R&B, and soon he was listening to Chuck Berry and Bo Diddley, to Ray Charles, and to a record we've not talked about in the podcast but which was one of the great early doo-wop records, "WPLJ" by the Four Deuces: [Excerpt: The Four Deuces, "WPLJ"] Garcia said of that record "That was one of my anthem songs when I was in junior high school and high school and around there. That was one of those songs everybody knew. And that everybody sang. Everybody sang that street-corner favorite." Garcia moved around a lot as a child, and didn't have much time for school by his own account, but one of the few teachers he did respect was an art teacher when he was in North Beach, Walter Hedrick. Hedrick was also one of the earliest of the conceptual artists, and one of the most important figures in the San Francisco arts scene that would become known as the Beat Generation (or the Beatniks, which was originally a disparaging term). Hedrick was a painter and sculptor, but also organised happenings, and he had also been one of the prime movers in starting a series of poetry readings in San Francisco, the first one of which had involved Allen Ginsberg giving the first ever reading of "Howl" -- one of a small number of poems, along with Eliot's "Prufrock" and "The Waste Land" and possibly Pound's Cantos, which can be said to have changed twentieth-century literature. Garcia was fifteen when he got to know Hedrick, in 1957, and by then the Beat scene had already become almost a parody of itself, having become known to the public because of the publication of works like On the Road, and the major artists in the scene were already rejecting the label. By this point tourists were flocking to North Beach to see these beatniks they'd heard about on TV, and Hedrick was actually employed by one cafe to sit in the window wearing a beret, turtleneck, sandals, and beard, and draw and paint, to attract the tourists who flocked by the busload because they could see that there was a "genuine beatnik" in the cafe. Hedrick was, as well as a visual artist, a guitarist and banjo player who played in traditional jazz bands, and he would bring records in to class for his students to listen to, and Garcia particularly remembered him bringing in records by Big Bill Broonzy: [Excerpt: Big Bill Broonzy, "When Things Go Wrong (It Hurts Me Too)"] Garcia was already an avid fan of rock and roll music, but it was being inspired by Hedrick that led him to get his first guitar. Like his contemporary Paul McCartney around the same time, he was initially given the wrong instrument as a birthday present -- in Garcia's case his mother gave him an accordion -- but he soon persuaded her to swap it for an electric guitar he saw in a pawn shop. And like his other contemporary, John Lennon, Garcia initially tuned his instrument incorrectly. He said later "When I started playing the guitar, believe me, I didn't know anybody that played. I mean, I didn't know anybody that played the guitar. Nobody. They weren't around. There were no guitar teachers. You couldn't take lessons. There was nothing like that, you know? When I was a kid and I had my first electric guitar, I had it tuned wrong and learned how to play on it with it tuned wrong for about a year. And I was getting somewhere on it, you know… Finally, I met a guy that knew how to tune it right and showed me three chords, and it was like a revelation. You know what I mean? It was like somebody gave me the key to heaven." He joined a band, the Chords, which mostly played big band music, and his friend Gary Foster taught him some of the rudiments of playing the guitar -- things like how to use a capo to change keys. But he was always a rebellious kid, and soon found himself faced with a choice between joining the military or going to prison. He chose the former, and it was during his time in the Army that a friend, Ron Stevenson, introduced him to the music of Merle Travis, and to Travis-style guitar picking: [Excerpt: Merle Travis, "Nine-Pound Hammer"] Garcia had never encountered playing like that before, but he instantly recognised that Travis, and Chet Atkins who Stevenson also played for him, had been an influence on Scotty Moore. He started to realise that the music he'd listened to as a teenager was influenced by music that went further back. But Stevenson, as well as teaching Garcia some of the rudiments of Travis-picking, also indirectly led to Garcia getting discharged from the Army. Stevenson was not a well man, and became suicidal. Garcia decided it was more important to keep his friend company and make sure he didn't kill himself than it was to turn up for roll call, and as a result he got discharged himself on psychiatric grounds -- according to Garcia he told the Army psychiatrist "I was involved in stuff that was more important to me in the moment than the army was and that was the reason I was late" and the psychiatrist thought it was neurotic of Garcia to have his own set of values separate from that of the Army. After discharge, Garcia did various jobs, including working as a transcriptionist for Lenny Bruce, the comedian who was a huge influence on the counterculture. In one of the various attacks over the years by authoritarians on language, Bruce was repeatedly arrested for obscenity, and in 1961 he was arrested at a jazz club in North Beach. Sixty years ago, the parts of speech that were being criminalised weren't pronouns, but prepositions and verbs: [Excerpt: Lenny Bruce, "To is a Preposition, Come is a Verb"] That piece, indeed, was so controversial that when Frank Zappa quoted part of it in a song in 1968, the record label insisted on the relevant passage being played backwards so people couldn't hear such disgusting filth: [Excerpt: The Mothers of Invention, "Harry You're a Beast"] (Anyone familiar with that song will understand that the censored portion is possibly the least offensive part of the whole thing). Bruce was facing trial, and he needed transcripts of what he had said in his recordings to present in court. Incidentally, there seems to be some confusion over exactly which of Bruce's many obscenity trials Garcia became a transcriptionist for. Dennis McNally says in his biography of the band, published in 2002, that it was the most famous of them, in autumn 1964, but in a later book, Jerry on Jerry, a book of interviews of Garcia edited by McNally, McNally talks about it being when Garcia was nineteen, which would mean it was Bruce's first trial, in 1961. We can put this down to the fact that many of the people involved, not least Garcia, lived in Tralfamadorian time, and were rather hazy on dates, but I'm placing the story here rather than in 1964 because it seems to make more sense that Garcia would be involved in a trial based on an incident in San Francisco than one in New York. Garcia got the job, even though he couldn't type, because by this point he'd spent so long listening to recordings of old folk and country music that he was used to transcribing indecipherable accents, and often, as Garcia would tell it, Bruce would mumble very fast and condense multiple syllables into one. Garcia was particularly impressed by Bruce's ability to improvise but talk in entire paragraphs, and he compared his use of language to bebop. Another thing that was starting to impress Garcia, and which he also compared to bebop, was bluegrass: [Excerpt: Bill Monroe, "Fire on the Mountain"] Bluegrass is a music that is often considered very traditional, because it's based on traditional songs and uses acoustic instruments, but in fact it was a terribly *modern* music, and largely a postwar creation of a single band -- Bill Monroe and his Blue Grass Boys. And Garcia was right when he said it was "white bebop" -- though he did say "The only thing it doesn't have is the harmonic richness of bebop. You know what I mean? That's what it's missing, but it has everything else." Both bebop and bluegrass evolved after the second world war, though they were informed by music from before it, and both prized the ability to improvise, and technical excellence. Both are musics that involved playing *fast*, in an ensemble, and being able to respond quickly to the other musicians. Both musics were also intensely rhythmic, a response to a faster paced, more stressful world. They were both part of the general change in the arts towards immediacy that we looked at in the last episode with the creation first of expressionism and then of pop art. Bluegrass didn't go into the harmonic explorations that modern jazz did, but it was absolutely as modern as anything Charlie Parker was doing, and came from the same impulses. It was tradition and innovation, the past and the future simultaneously. Bill Monroe, Jackson Pollock, Charlie Parker, Jack Kerouac, and Lenny Bruce were all in their own ways responding to the same cultural moment, and it was that which Garcia was responding to. But he didn't become able to play bluegrass until after a tragedy which shaped his life even more than his father's death had. Garcia had been to a party and was in a car with his friends Lee Adams, Paul Speegle, and Alan Trist. Adams was driving at ninety miles an hour when they hit a tight curve and crashed. Garcia, Adams, and Trist were all severely injured but survived. Speegle died. So it goes. This tragedy changed Garcia's attitudes totally. Of all his friends, Speegle was the one who was most serious about his art, and who treated it as something to work on. Garcia had always been someone who fundamentally didn't want to work or take any responsibility for anything. And he remained that way -- except for his music. Speegle's death changed Garcia's attitude to that, totally. If his friend wasn't going to be able to practice his own art any more, Garcia would practice his, in tribute to him. He resolved to become a virtuoso on guitar and banjo. His girlfriend of the time later said “I don't know if you've spent time with someone rehearsing ‘Foggy Mountain Breakdown' on a banjo for eight hours, but Jerry practiced endlessly. He really wanted to excel and be the best. He had tremendous personal ambition in the musical arena, and he wanted to master whatever he set out to explore. Then he would set another sight for himself. And practice another eight hours a day of new licks.” But of course, you can't make ensemble music on your own: [Excerpt: Jerry Garcia and Bob Hunter, "Oh Mary Don't You Weep" (including end)] "Evelyn said, “What is it called when a person needs a … person … when you want to be touched and the … two are like one thing and there isn't anything else at all anywhere?” Alicia, who had read books, thought about it. “Love,” she said at length." That's from More Than Human, by Theodore Sturgeon, a book I'll be quoting a few more times as the story goes on. Robert Hunter, like Garcia, was just out of the military -- in his case, the National Guard -- and he came into Garcia's life just after Paul Speegle had left it. Garcia and Alan Trist met Hunter ten days after the accident, and the three men started hanging out together, Trist and Hunter writing while Garcia played music. Garcia and Hunter both bonded over their shared love for the beats, and for traditional music, and the two formed a duo, Bob and Jerry, which performed together a handful of times. They started playing together, in fact, after Hunter picked up a guitar and started playing a song and halfway through Garcia took it off him and finished the song himself. The two of them learned songs from the Harry Smith Anthology -- Garcia was completely apolitical, and only once voted in his life, for Lyndon Johnson in 1964 to keep Goldwater out, and regretted even doing that, and so he didn't learn any of the more political material people like Pete Seeger, Phil Ochs, and Bob Dylan were doing at the time -- but their duo only lasted a short time because Hunter wasn't an especially good guitarist. Hunter would, though, continue to jam with Garcia and other friends, sometimes playing mandolin, while Garcia played solo gigs and with other musicians as well, playing and moving round the Bay Area and performing with whoever he could: [Excerpt: Jerry Garcia, "Railroad Bill"] "Bleshing, that was Janie's word. She said Baby told it to her. She said it meant everyone all together being something, even if they all did different things. Two arms, two legs, one body, one head, all working together, although a head can't walk and arms can't think. Lone said maybe it was a mixture of “blending” and “meshing,” but I don't think he believed that himself. It was a lot more than that." That's from More Than Human In 1961, Garcia and Hunter met another young musician, but one who was interested in a very different type of music. Phil Lesh was a serious student of modern classical music, a classically-trained violinist and trumpeter whose interest was solidly in the experimental and whose attitude can be summed up by a story that's always told about him meeting his close friend Tom Constanten for the first time. Lesh had been talking with someone about serialism, and Constanten had interrupted, saying "Music stopped being created in 1750 but it started again in 1950". Lesh just stuck out his hand, recognising a kindred spirit. Lesh and Constanten were both students of Luciano Berio, the experimental composer who created compositions for magnetic tape: [Excerpt: Luciano Berio, "Momenti"] Berio had been one of the founders of the Studio di fonologia musicale di Radio Milano, a studio for producing contemporary electronic music where John Cage had worked for a time, and he had also worked with the electronic music pioneer Karlheinz Stockhausen. Lesh would later remember being very impressed when Berio brought a tape into the classroom -- the actual multitrack tape for Stockhausen's revolutionary piece Gesang Der Juenglinge: [Excerpt: Karlheinz Stockhausen, "Gesang Der Juenglinge"] Lesh at first had been distrustful of Garcia -- Garcia was charismatic and had followers, and Lesh never liked people like that. But he was impressed by Garcia's playing, and soon realised that the two men, despite their very different musical interests, had a lot in common. Lesh was interested in the technology of music as well as in performing and composing it, and so when he wasn't studying he helped out by engineering at the university's radio station. Lesh was impressed by Garcia's playing, and suggested to the presenter of the station's folk show, the Midnight Special, that Garcia be a guest. Garcia was so good that he ended up getting an entire solo show to himself, where normally the show would feature multiple acts. Lesh and Constanten soon moved away from the Bay Area to Las Vegas, but both would be back -- in Constanten's case he would form an experimental group in San Francisco with their fellow student Steve Reich, and that group (though not with Constanten performing) would later premiere Terry Riley's In C, a piece influenced by La Monte Young and often considered one of the great masterpieces of minimalist music. By early 1962 Garcia and Hunter had formed a bluegrass band, with Garcia on guitar and banjo and Hunter on mandolin, and a rotating cast of other musicians including Ken Frankel, who played banjo and fiddle. They performed under different names, including the Tub Thumpers, the Hart Valley Drifters, and the Sleepy Valley Hog Stompers, and played a mixture of bluegrass and old-time music -- and were very careful about the distinction: [Excerpt: The Hart Valley Drifters, "Cripple Creek"] In 1993, the Republican political activist John Perry Barlow was invited to talk to the CIA about the possibilities open to them with what was then called the Information Superhighway. He later wrote, in part "They told me they'd brought Steve Jobs in a few weeks before to indoctrinate them in modern information management. And they were delighted when I returned later, bringing with me a platoon of Internet gurus, including Esther Dyson, Mitch Kapor, Tony Rutkowski, and Vint Cerf. They sealed us into an electronically impenetrable room to discuss the radical possibility that a good first step in lifting their blackout would be for the CIA to put up a Web site... We told them that information exchange was a barter system, and that to receive, one must also be willing to share. This was an alien notion to them. They weren't even willing to share information among themselves, much less the world." 1962 brought a new experience for Robert Hunter. Hunter had been recruited into taking part in psychological tests at Stanford University, which in the sixties and seventies was one of the preeminent universities for psychological experiments. As part of this, Hunter was given $140 to attend the VA hospital (where a janitor named Ken Kesey, who had himself taken part in a similar set of experiments a couple of years earlier, worked a day job while he was working on his first novel) for four weeks on the run, and take different psychedelic drugs each time, starting with LSD, so his reactions could be observed. (It was later revealed that these experiments were part of a CIA project called MKUltra, designed to investigate the possibility of using psychedelic drugs for mind control, blackmail, and torture. Hunter was quite lucky in that he was told what was going to happen to him and paid for his time. Other subjects included the unlucky customers of brothels the CIA set up as fronts -- they dosed the customers' drinks and observed them through two-way mirrors. Some of their experimental subjects died by suicide as a result of their experiences. So it goes. ) Hunter was interested in taking LSD after reading Aldous Huxley's writings about psychedelic substances, and he brought his typewriter along to the experiment. During the first test, he wrote a six-page text, a short excerpt from which is now widely quoted, reading in part "Sit back picture yourself swooping up a shell of purple with foam crests of crystal drops soft nigh they fall unto the sea of morning creep-very-softly mist ... and then sort of cascade tinkley-bell-like (must I take you by the hand, ever so slowly type) and then conglomerate suddenly into a peal of silver vibrant uncomprehendingly, blood singingly, joyously resounding bells" Hunter's experience led to everyone in their social circle wanting to try LSD, and soon they'd all come to the same conclusion -- this was something special. But Garcia needed money -- he'd got his girlfriend pregnant, and they'd married (this would be the first of several marriages in Garcia's life, and I won't be covering them all -- at Garcia's funeral, his second wife, Carolyn, said Garcia always called her the love of his life, and his first wife and his early-sixties girlfriend who he proposed to again in the nineties both simultaneously said "He said that to me!"). So he started teaching guitar at a music shop in Palo Alto. Hunter had no time for Garcia's incipient domesticity and thought that his wife was trying to make him live a conventional life, and the two drifted apart somewhat, though they'd still play together occasionally. Through working at the music store, Garcia got to know the manager, Troy Weidenheimer, who had a rock and roll band called the Zodiacs. Garcia joined the band on bass, despite that not being his instrument. He later said "Troy was a lot of fun, but I wasn't good enough a musician then to have been able to deal with it. I was out of my idiom, really, 'cause when I played with Troy I was playing electric bass, you know. I never was a good bass player. Sometimes I was playing in the wrong key and didn't even [fuckin'] know it. I couldn't hear that low, after playing banjo, you know, and going to electric...But Troy taught me the principle of, hey, you know, just stomp your foot and get on it. He was great. A great one for the instant arrangement, you know. And he was also fearless for that thing of get your friends to do it." Garcia's tenure in the Zodiacs didn't last long, nor did this experiment with rock and roll, but two other members of the Zodiacs will be notable later in the story -- the harmonica player, an old friend of Garcia's named Ron McKernan, who would soon gain the nickname Pig Pen after the Peanuts character, and the drummer, Bill Kreutzmann: [Excerpt: The Grateful Dead, "Drums/Space (Skull & Bones version)"] Kreutzmann said of the Zodiacs "Jerry was the hired bass player and I was the hired drummer. I only remember playing that one gig with them, but I was in way over my head. I always did that. I always played things that were really hard and it didn't matter. I just went for it." Garcia and Kreutzmann didn't really get to know each other then, but Garcia did get to know someone else who would soon be very important in his life. Bob Weir was from a very different background than Garcia, though both had the shared experience of long bouts of chronic illness as children. He had grown up in a very wealthy family, and had always been well-liked, but he was what we would now call neurodivergent -- reading books about the band he talks about being dyslexic but clearly has other undiagnosed neurodivergences, which often go along with dyslexia -- and as a result he was deemed to have behavioural problems which led to him getting expelled from pre-school and kicked out of the cub scouts. He was never academically gifted, thanks to his dyslexia, but he was always enthusiastic about music -- to a fault. He learned to play boogie piano but played so loudly and so often his parents sold the piano. He had a trumpet, but the neighbours complained about him playing it outside. Finally he switched to the guitar, an instrument with which it is of course impossible to make too loud a noise. The first song he learned was the Kingston Trio's version of an old sea shanty, "The Wreck of the John B": [Excerpt: The Kingston Trio, "The Wreck of the John B"] He was sent off to a private school in Colorado for teenagers with behavioural issues, and there he met the boy who would become his lifelong friend, John Perry Barlow. Unfortunately the two troublemakers got on with each other *so* well that after their first year they were told that it was too disruptive having both of them at the school, and only one could stay there the next year. Barlow stayed and Weir moved back to the Bay Area. By this point, Weir was getting more interested in folk music that went beyond the commercial folk of the Kingston Trio. As he said later "There was something in there that was ringing my bells. What I had grown up thinking of as hillbilly music, it started to have some depth for me, and I could start to hear the music in it. Suddenly, it wasn't just a bunch of ignorant hillbillies playing what they could. There was some depth and expertise and stuff like that to aspire to.” He moved from school to school but one thing that stayed with him was his love of playing guitar, and he started taking lessons from Troy Weidenheimer, but he got most of his education going to folk clubs and hootenannies. He regularly went to the Tangent, a club where Garcia played, but Garcia's bluegrass banjo playing was far too rigorous for a free spirit like Weir to emulate, and instead he started trying to copy one of the guitarists who was a regular there, Jorma Kaukonnen. On New Year's Eve 1963 Weir was out walking with his friends Bob Matthews and Rich Macauley, and they passed the music shop where Garcia was a teacher, and heard him playing his banjo. They knocked and asked if they could come in -- they all knew Garcia a little, and Bob Matthews was one of his students, having become interested in playing banjo after hearing the theme tune to the Beverly Hillbillies, played by the bluegrass greats Flatt and Scruggs: [Excerpt: Flatt and Scruggs, "The Beverly Hillbillies"] Garcia at first told these kids, several years younger than him, that they couldn't come in -- he was waiting for his students to show up. But Weir said “Jerry, listen, it's seven-thirty on New Year's Eve, and I don't think you're going to be seeing your students tonight.” Garcia realised the wisdom of this, and invited the teenagers in to jam with him. At the time, there was a bit of a renaissance in jug bands, as we talked about back in the episode on the Lovin' Spoonful. This was a form of music that had grown up in the 1920s, and was similar and related to skiffle and coffee-pot bands -- jug bands would tend to have a mixture of portable string instruments like guitars and banjos, harmonicas, and people using improvised instruments, particularly blowing into a jug. The most popular of these bands had been Gus Cannon's Jug Stompers, led by banjo player Gus Cannon and with harmonica player Noah Lewis: [Excerpt: Gus Cannon's Jug Stompers, "Viola Lee Blues"] With the folk revival, Cannon's work had become well-known again. The Rooftop Singers, a Kingston Trio style folk group, had had a hit with his song "Walk Right In" in 1963, and as a result of that success Cannon had even signed a record contract with Stax -- Stax's first album ever, a month before Booker T and the MGs' first album, was in fact the eighty-year-old Cannon playing his banjo and singing his old songs. The rediscovery of Cannon had started a craze for jug bands, and the most popular of the new jug bands was Jim Kweskin's Jug Band, which did a mixture of old songs like "You're a Viper" and more recent material redone in the old style. Weir, Matthews, and Macauley had been to see the Kweskin band the night before, and had been very impressed, especially by their singer Maria D'Amato -- who would later marry her bandmate Geoff Muldaur and take his name -- and her performance of Leiber and Stoller's "I'm a Woman": [Excerpt: Jim Kweskin's Jug Band, "I'm a Woman"] Matthews suggested that they form their own jug band, and Garcia eagerly agreed -- though Matthews found himself rapidly moving from banjo to washboard to kazoo to second kazoo before realising he was surplus to requirements. Robert Hunter was similarly an early member but claimed he "didn't have the embouchure" to play the jug, and was soon also out. He moved to LA and started studying Scientology -- later claiming that he wanted science-fictional magic powers, which L. Ron Hubbard's new religion certainly offered. The group took the name Mother McRee's Uptown Jug Champions -- apparently they varied the spelling every time they played -- and had a rotating membership that at one time or another included about twenty different people, but tended always to have Garcia on banjo, Weir on jug and later guitar, and Garcia's friend Pig Pen on harmonica: [Excerpt: Mother McRee's Uptown Jug Champions, "On the Road Again"] The group played quite regularly in early 1964, but Garcia's first love was still bluegrass, and he was trying to build an audience with his bluegrass band, The Black Mountain Boys. But bluegrass was very unpopular in the Bay Area, where it was simultaneously thought of as unsophisticated -- as "hillbilly music" -- and as elitist, because it required actual instrumental ability, which wasn't in any great supply in the amateur folk scene. But instrumental ability was something Garcia definitely had, as at this point he was still practising eight hours a day, every day, and it shows on the recordings of the Black Mountain Boys: [Excerpt: The Black Mountain Boys, "Rosa Lee McFall"] By the summer, Bob Weir was also working at the music shop, and so Garcia let Weir take over his students while he and the Black Mountain Boys' guitarist Sandy Rothman went on a road trip to see as many bluegrass musicians as they could and to audition for Bill Monroe himself. As it happened, Garcia found himself too shy to audition for Monroe, but Rothman later ended up playing with Monroe's Blue Grass Boys. On his return to the Bay Area, Garcia resumed playing with the Uptown Jug Champions, but Pig Pen started pestering him to do something different. While both men had overlapping tastes in music and a love for the blues, Garcia's tastes had always been towards the country end of the spectrum while Pig Pen's were towards R&B. And while the Uptown Jug Champions were all a bit disdainful of the Beatles at first -- apart from Bob Weir, the youngest of the group, who thought they were interesting -- Pig Pen had become enamoured of another British band who were just starting to make it big: [Excerpt: The Rolling Stones, "Not Fade Away"] 29) Garcia liked the first Rolling Stones album too, and he eventually took Pig Pen's point -- the stuff that the Rolling Stones were doing, covers of Slim Harpo and Buddy Holly, was not a million miles away from the material they were doing as Mother McRee's Uptown Jug Champions. Pig Pen could play a little electric organ, Bob had been fooling around with the electric guitars in the music shop. Why not give it a go? The stuff bands like the Rolling Stones were doing wasn't that different from the electric blues that Pig Pen liked, and they'd all seen A Hard Day's Night -- they could carry on playing with banjos, jugs, and kazoos and have the respect of a handful of folkies, or they could get electric instruments and potentially have screaming girls and millions of dollars, while playing the same songs. This was a convincing argument, especially when Dana Morgan Jr, the son of the owner of the music shop, told them they could have free electric instruments if they let him join on bass. Morgan wasn't that great on bass, but what the hell, free instruments. Pig Pen had the best voice and stage presence, so he became the frontman of the new group, singing most of the leads, though Jerry and Bob would both sing a few songs, and playing harmonica and organ. Weir was on rhythm guitar, and Garcia was the lead guitarist and obvious leader of the group. They just needed a drummer, and handily Bill Kreutzmann, who had played with Garcia and Pig Pen in the Zodiacs, was also now teaching music at the music shop. Not only that, but about three weeks before they decided to go electric, Kreutzmann had seen the Uptown Jug Champions performing and been astonished by Garcia's musicianship and charisma, and said to himself "Man, I'm gonna follow that guy forever!" The new group named themselves the Warlocks, and started rehearsing in earnest. Around this time, Garcia also finally managed to get some of the LSD that his friend Robert Hunter had been so enthusiastic about three years earlier, and it was a life-changing experience for him. In particular, he credited LSD with making him comfortable being a less disciplined player -- as a bluegrass player he'd had to be frighteningly precise, but now he was playing rock and needed to loosen up. A few days after taking LSD for the first time, Garcia also heard some of Bob Dylan's new material, and realised that the folk singer he'd had little time for with his preachy politics was now making electric music that owed a lot more to the Beat culture Garcia considered himself part of: [Excerpt: Bob Dylan, "Subterranean Homesick Blues"] Another person who was hugely affected by hearing that was Phil Lesh, who later said "I couldn't believe that was Bob Dylan on AM radio, with an electric band. It changed my whole consciousness: if something like that could happen, the sky was the limit." Up to that point, Lesh had been focused entirely on his avant-garde music, working with friends like Steve Reich to push music forward, inspired by people like John Cage and La Monte Young, but now he realised there was music of value in the rock world. He'd quickly started going to rock gigs, seeing the Rolling Stones and the Byrds, and then he took acid and went to see his friend Garcia's new electric band play their third ever gig. He was blown away, and very quickly it was decided that Lesh would be the group's new bass player -- though everyone involved tells a different story as to who made the decision and how it came about, and accounts also vary as to whether Dana Morgan took his sacking gracefully and let his erstwhile bandmates keep their instruments, or whether they had to scrounge up some new ones. Lesh had never played bass before, but he was a talented multi-instrumentalist with a deep understanding of music and an ability to compose and improvise, and the repertoire the Warlocks were playing in the early days was mostly three-chord material that doesn't take much rehearsal -- though it was apparently beyond the abilities of poor Dana Morgan, who apparently had to be told note-by-note what to play by Garcia, and learn it by rote. Garcia told Lesh what notes the strings of a bass were tuned to, told him to borrow a guitar and practice, and within two weeks he was on stage with the Warlocks: [Excerpt: The Grateful Dead, “Grayfolded"] In September 1995, just weeks after Jerry Garcia's death, an article was published in Mute magazine identifying a cultural trend that had shaped the nineties, and would as it turned out shape at least the next thirty years. It's titled "The Californian Ideology", though it may be better titled "The Bay Area Ideology", and it identifies a worldview that had grown up in Silicon Valley, based around the ideas of the hippie movement, of right-wing libertarianism, of science fiction authors, and of Marshall McLuhan. It starts "There is an emerging global orthodoxy concerning the relation between society, technology and politics. We have called this orthodoxy `the Californian Ideology' in honour of the state where it originated. By naturalising and giving a technological proof to a libertarian political philosophy, and therefore foreclosing on alternative futures, the Californian Ideologues are able to assert that social and political debates about the future have now become meaningless. The California Ideology is a mix of cybernetics, free market economics, and counter-culture libertarianism and is promulgated by magazines such as WIRED and MONDO 2000 and preached in the books of Stewart Brand, Kevin Kelly and others. The new faith has been embraced by computer nerds, slacker students, 30-something capitalists, hip academics, futurist bureaucrats and even the President of the USA himself. As usual, Europeans have not been slow to copy the latest fashion from America. While a recent EU report recommended adopting the Californian free enterprise model to build the 'infobahn', cutting-edge artists and academics have been championing the 'post-human' philosophy developed by the West Coast's Extropian cult. With no obvious opponents, the global dominance of the Californian ideology appears to be complete." [Excerpt: Grayfolded] The Warlocks' first gig with Phil Lesh on bass was on June the 18th 1965, at a club called Frenchy's with a teenage clientele. Lesh thought his playing had been wooden and it wasn't a good gig, and apparently the management of Frenchy's agreed -- they were meant to play a second night there, but turned up to be told they'd been replaced by a band with an accordion and clarinet. But by September the group had managed to get themselves a residency at a small bar named the In Room, and playing there every night made them cohere. They were at this point playing the kind of sets that bar bands everywhere play to this day, though at the time the songs they were playing, like "Gloria" by Them and "In the Midnight Hour", were the most contemporary of hits. Another song that they introduced into their repertoire was "Do You Believe in Magic" by the Lovin' Spoonful, another band which had grown up out of former jug band musicians. As well as playing their own sets, they were also the house band at The In Room and as such had to back various touring artists who were the headline acts. The first act they had to back up was Cornell Gunter's version of the Coasters. Gunter had brought his own guitarist along as musical director, and for the first show Weir sat in the audience watching the show and learning the parts, staring intently at this musical director's playing. After seeing that, Weir's playing was changed, because he also picked up how the guitarist was guiding the band while playing, the small cues that a musical director will use to steer the musicians in the right direction. Weir started doing these things himself when he was singing lead -- Pig Pen was the frontman but everyone except Bill sang sometimes -- and the group soon found that rather than Garcia being the sole leader, now whoever was the lead singer for the song was the de facto conductor as well. By this point, the Bay Area was getting almost overrun with people forming electric guitar bands, as every major urban area in America was. Some of the bands were even having hits already -- We Five had had a number three hit with "You Were On My Mind", a song which had originally been performed by the folk duo Ian and Sylvia: [Excerpt: We Five, "You Were On My Mind"] Although the band that was most highly regarded on the scene, the Charlatans, was having problems with the various record companies they tried to get signed to, and didn't end up making a record until 1969. If tracks like "Number One" had been released in 1965 when they were recorded, the history of the San Francisco music scene may have taken a very different turn: [Excerpt: The Charlatans, "Number One"] Bands like Jefferson Airplane, the Great Society, and Big Brother and the Holding Company were also forming, and Autumn Records was having a run of success with records by the Beau Brummels, whose records were produced by Autumn's in-house A&R man, Sly Stone: [Excerpt: The Beau Brummels, "Laugh Laugh"] The Warlocks were somewhat cut off from this, playing in a dive bar whose clientele was mostly depressed alcoholics. But the fact that they were playing every night for an audience that didn't care much gave them freedom, and they used that freedom to improvise. Both Lesh and Garcia were big fans of John Coltrane, and they started to take lessons from his style of playing. When the group played "Gloria" or "Midnight Hour" or whatever, they started to extend the songs and give themselves long instrumental passages for soloing. Garcia's playing wasn't influenced *harmonically* by Coltrane -- in fact Garcia was always a rather harmonically simple player. He'd tend to play lead lines either in Mixolydian mode, which is one of the most standard modes in rock, pop, blues, and jazz, or he'd play the notes of the chord that was being played, so if the band were playing a G chord his lead would emphasise the notes G, B, and D. But what he was influenced by was Coltrane's tendency to improvise in long, complex, phrases that made up a single thought -- Coltrane was thinking musically in paragraphs, rather than sentences, and Garcia started to try the same kind of th

Geoffrey Hinton, 2018 Turing Award winner for his foundational work in AI, recently left Google so he could speak freely about the dangers of AI without negatively impacting Google whom he believes has acted responsibly in its AI roll-out. Is juice jacking a real threat to users of up to date smartphones? And JAMA has a story about the comparison between real physicians and ChatGPT answering patient questions.Starring Tom Merritt, Rich Stroffolino, Chris Ashley, Roger Chang, Joe.Link to the Show Notes. Become a member at https://plus.acast.com/s/dtns. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.