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Tema del Día: ¿Y tu que pararías mejor una penalti o un chisme? Nos acompaña Denisha. Tenemos muchos regalos. Esto y mucho más les tenemos listo.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Send us a textToday, we're diving back into a powerful concept that could change the way you see yourself and your story—your Primal Question. Our last episode featured the creator of the primal question framework, Mike Foster. Today, we will continue talking about our primal question also known as our highest emotional need. It really is the thing underneath the thing that drives everything! What if the behaviors you can't explain, the emotions that catch you off guard, and even the lies you struggle to shake… all trace back to one core question you've been asking since childhood?In this episode, I'll share how discovering my own Primal Question—“Do I have purpose?”—brought deep clarity, healing, and freedom. And how you can uncover yours too.Here are two FREE Ebooks for you! 1. Shame Off You: 10 steps to shattering shame in your life, HERE. 2. ABC's: CLICK HERE for a FREE E-book to help you combat lies and replace them with God's truth. For more encouragement, check out some of our offerings at www.reclaimedstory.comDid you know we have a jewelry line that speaks to your identity in Jesus? CLICK HERE to shop. Every purchase helps support our mission to provide healing and hope to women worldwide. Would you partner with us to spread the message of hope and healing? You can DONATE HERE. Living the Reclaimed Life is a Reclaimed Story, Inc. podcast, An Arizona non-profit corporation. If you would like to connect with a safe group of women doing real-life together, join our private Facebook page, “Living the Reclaimed Life” or on Facebook or Instagram
Moni Campos, Aitza Terán y Denisha,, nos acompañan para platicar sobre la obra de teatro "The Waitress".See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Higher Hope Foundation: https://higherhope.org GoFundMe: https://www.gofundme.com/f/justice-for-pfc-denisha-smith Combat Sexual Assault: https://combatsexualassault.org/ Support our Sponsors! https://acorns.com/milehigher https://hungryroot.com/milehigher Timestamps: Intro 0:00 Denisha's Early Life 6:27 Joining the ARMY 8:24 Deploying to Germany 12:00 The Water Park Assault 14:13 The Smoking Gun that Was Ignored 18:56 The Nonsense Logic of Higher Ups 22:33 Denisha is Found... 25:15 Miles of Red Tape 28:44 A Series of Convenient Accidents 39:46 Her Family Fights for Justice 46:58 The Rampant Issue of SA in the Military 51:36 The Tailhook Event & The Invisible War 53:40 A Much Deeper Issue 1:00:30 The Guillen Case 1:12:29 Final Thoughts & Outro 1:16:15 Shop our new merch! https://milehigher.shop Mile Higher Merch: HTTP://milehigher.shop Charity Merch for NCMEC: https://kendallrae.shop Check out our other podcasts! The Sesh https://bit.ly/3Mtoz4X Lights Out https://bit.ly/3n3Gaoe Planet Sleep https://linktr.ee/planetsleep Join our official FB group! https://bit.ly/3kQbAxg Join our Discord community, it's free! https://discord.gg/hZ356G9 MHP YouTube: http://bit.ly/2qaDWGf Are You Subscribed On Apple Podcast & Spotify?! Support MHP by leaving a rating or review on Apple Podcast :) https://apple.co/2H4kh58 MHP Topic Request Form: https://forms.gle/gUeTEzL9QEh4Hqz88 Merch designer application: https://forms.gle/ha2ErBnv1gK4rj2Y6 You can follow us on all the things: @milehigherpod Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/milehigherpod Instagram: http://www.instagram.com/milehigherpod YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@MileHigher Hosts: Kendall: @kendallraeonyt IG: http://instagram.com/kendallraeonyt TW: https://www.twitter.com/kendallraeonyt YT: https://www.youtube.com/c/kendallsplace Josh: @milehigherjosh IG: http://www.instagram.com/milehigherjosh TW: https://www.twitter.com/milehigherjosh Producer: Janelle: @janelle_fields_ IG: https://www.instagram.com/janelle_fie... TW: https://www.twitter.com/janelle_fields_ Podcast sponsor inquires: joshthomas@night.co ✉ Send Us Mail & Fan Art ✉ Kendall Rae & Josh Thomas 8547 E Arapahoe Rd Ste J # 233 Greenwood Village, CO 80112 Music By: Mile Higher Boys YT: https://bit.ly/2Q7N5QO Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/artist/0F4ik... The creator hosts a documentary series for educational purposes (EDSA). These include authoritative sources such as interviews, newspaper articles, and TV news reporting meant to educate and memorialize notable cases in our history. Videos come with an editorial and artistic value. SOURCES CITED: https://www.amazon.com/Invisible-War-Helen-Benedict/dp/B009G9Z4FW https://youtu.be/_SAAqG6zAXk?si=LpL66fUbrX3ZEZ_A&t=242 https://www.tiktok.com/@bbbrookeeeee/video/7164483213568527659
Send us a textHave you ever dreaded holiday gatherings because you and the people you love have different views on things that are important to you? We want you to look forward to the holidays with your loved ones, so let's get super practical today, as we give you eight ways you can navigate healthy disagreements around the table this holiday season. Here is your free E-book from this podcast, Harmony at the Holiday TableBefore we jump into today's episode, it's hard to believe it but Christmas is right around the corner and we have designed 17 brand-new pieces of jewelry! That brings us to over 70 pieces of inspirational jewelry and journals on our website! https://reclaimedstory.com/shop/If you want meaningful presents under the tree, we have them, why not shop and help support a strong women's ministry at the same time? You can find all of this on our website www.reclaimedstory.com/shop. Now, let's look at eight ways you can navigate healthy disagreements around the table this holiday season. Here are two FREE Ebooks for you! 1. Shame Off You: 10 steps to shattering shame in your life, HERE. 2. ABC's: CLICK HERE for a FREE E-book to help you combat lies and replace them with God's truth. For more encouragement, check out some of our offerings at www.reclaimedstory.comDid you know we have a jewelry line that speaks to your identity in Jesus? CLICK HERE to shop. Every purchase helps support our mission to provide healing and hope to women worldwide. Would you partner with us to spread the message of hope and healing? You can DONATE HERE. Living the Reclaimed Life is a Reclaimed Story, Inc. podcast, An Arizona non-profit corporation. If you would like to connect with a safe group of women doing real-life together, join our private Facebook page, “Living the Reclaimed Life” or on Facebook or Instagram
Send us a textHave you ever listened to a story and been three minutes in, and you just don't get why they're telling it? Has someone ever told you a joke, and you were the only one not laughing? I know I've been there. Have you ever missed -- the point? Today, we will look at a parable that Jesus told, which could leave us wondering, what's the point? This is a sermon that I gave a few years back, and I believe it is quite relevant to today. In fact, I can't shake the feeling that I think we need it now more than ever. What's the point of forgiveness? Before we start, I want to tell you about a special event coming up on October 30th. We are hosting a live webinar open to men and women with Maurice F. Martin called "Forgiveness in Real Life." If you have heard Maurice on the podcast, you know he delivers such wisdom and grace. To register for this FREE webinar, CLICK HEREIn this episode, let's unpack a parable from Matthew 18, and I pray we don't miss the point. May we each come to realize that if we have been given forgiveness, then we have forgiveness to give. Here are two FREE Ebooks for you! 1. Shame Off You: 10 steps to shattering shame in your life, HERE. 2. ABC's: CLICK HERE for a FREE E-book to help you combat lies and replace them with God's truth. For more encouragement, check out some of our offerings at www.reclaimedstory.comDid you know we have a jewelry line that speaks to your identity in Jesus? CLICK HERE to shop. Every purchase helps support our mission to provide healing and hope to women worldwide. Would you partner with us to spread the message of hope and healing? You can DONATE HERE. Living the Reclaimed Life is a Reclaimed Story, Inc. podcast, An Arizona non-profit corporation. If you would like to connect with a safe group of women doing real-life together, join our private Facebook page, “Living the Reclaimed Life” or on Facebook or Instagram
This week on The Learning Curve, co-hosts Alisha Searcy of DFER and AFC's Walter Blanks interview Senior Fellow at the American Federation for Children and Founder of Black Minds Matter, Denisha Allen. Denisha shares her journey and the motivations behind founding Black Minds Matter, a national movement dedicated to celebrating Black excellence and promoting high-quality educational options for Black students. She delves into the politics […]
This week on The Learning Curve, co-hosts Alisha Searcy of DFER and AFC's Walter Blanks interview Senior Fellow at the American Federation for Children and Founder of Black Minds Matter, Denisha Allen. Denisha shares her journey and the motivations behind founding Black Minds Matter, a national movement dedicated to celebrating Black excellence and promoting high-quality educational options for Black students. She delves into the politics of urban school reform, highlighting the challenges posed by race and class-based achievement gaps and the political influence of teachers' unions. Mrs. Allen also reflects on the evolving landscape of charter school politics and how the pandemic has reshaped education by increasing interest in diverse school choice options like charters, homeschooling, and microschools. She discusses the implications of the "Year of School Choice" in 2021, marked by expanded voucher and ESA programs, and questions why, despite large federal education expenditures, national reading and math scores have been stagnant or declining. Finally, Denisha shares her vision for what policymakers and parents should do to dramatically improve academic outcomes for America's students.
Send us a Text Message.You do not have to do life alone. In this episode, we will talk about the impact of loneliness in our lives and the ways we can find our people. Here are two FREE Ebooks for you! 1. Shame Off You: 10 steps to shattering shame in your life, HERE. 2. ABC's: CLICK HERE for a FREE E-book to help you combat lies and replace them with God's truth. For more encouragement, check out some of our offerings at www.reclaimedstory.comDid you know we have a jewelry line that speaks to your identity in Jesus? CLICK HERE to shop. Every purchase helps support our mission to provide healing and hope to women worldwide. Would you partner with us to spread the message of hope and healing? You can DONATE HERE. Living the Reclaimed Life is a Reclaimed Story, Inc. podcast, An Arizona non-profit corporation. If you would like to connect with a safe group of women doing real-life together, join our private Facebook page, “Living the Reclaimed Life” or on Facebook or Instagram
In observance of Memory Sunday on June 9th, which draws attention to the impact of Alzheimer's in our communities, Dr. P talks with Denisha DeLane.Ms. DeLane has 20+ years of community engagement experience on a variety of social justice, health advocacy and social service initiatives. She is a serial entrepreneur and creative who enjoy mediums that support educating underserved communities and addressing socio economic conditions. Denisha is the Founder of Faith in the Bay – the leading faith-based website, connecting Northern California on news, worship events, gospel concerts and family friendly entertainment. She recently served as the Faith Community Outreach Director for Barbara Lee's Senatorial campaign.
Episode 153 features a conversation with the intervening President Denisha Gingles, and Vice-President Cammie Williams of the Black Applied Behavior Analysts, Inc. which paused operations in July 2023 following two unfortunate situations that occurred at our 2023 conference in Detroit: a physical and verbal attack, as well as homophobic statements made from one of their members to another. Among other things, these incidents exposed how far BABA had drifted from its founding purpose: the uplift of the entire Black community in the behavior analytic space. In this episode, Denisha and Cammie outline the history of BABA from its beginnings and their path toward transformative healing. As well they share exciting news about their upcoming mini-conference, BLACK CON! Stay tuned to the Behaviour Speak Podcast over the next few months as we share mini-episodes highlighting some of the positive experiences of attendees at the 2023 conference. Before you listen to this episode, listen to this one first! Love, Sex, and Applied Behavior Analysis with Cammie Williams and the Executive Board of BABA https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/lovesexaba/episodes/The-Exhale-BABA-e2j9ate Links: Black Applied Behavior Analysts Inc. https://babainfo.org/ https://www.facebook.com/BABAInc19 https://www.instagram.com/blackappliedbehavioranalysts/ https://www.linkedin.com/company/black-applied-behavior- analysts/ Black in Behavior Analysis FB Group (where it all started!) https://www.facebook.com/groups/284272152061855
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With BABA's 2024 conference in Baltimore fast approaching (July 19-21), we were lucky to find some time to chat with organization president, Denisha Gingles, and vice-president, Camille Williams, to talk all about what we can expect this year. From the new location in Maryland to the keynote speakers to the secrets of making a conference that feels like a community, we check off all the reasons that you don't want to miss Black Con. Register now!
This episode is for those of you who might feel discouraged or overwhelmed, or maybe you're just tired of life being hard. You are not alone. Our prayer is that this episode revives hope in you today. For encouraging, healing content, be sure to follow Tanya Godsey on Instagram.Here are two FREE Ebooks for you! 1. Shame Off You: 10 steps to shattering shame in your life, HERE. 2. ABC's: CLICK HERE for a FREE E-book to help you combat lies and replace them with God's truth. For more encouragement, check out some of our offerings at www.reclaimedstory.comDid you know we have a jewelry line that speaks to your identity in Jesus? CLICK HERE to shop. Every purchase helps support our mission to provide healing and hope to women worldwide. Would you partner with us to spread the message of hope and healing? You can DONATE HERE. Living the Reclaimed Life is a Reclaimed Story, Inc. podcast, An Arizona non-profit corporation. If you would like to connect with a safe group of women doing real-life together, join our private Facebook page, “Living the Reclaimed Life” or on Facebook or Instagram
Mirasee writer Andrew Chapman introduces Teacher Tom's Podcast, a new show on the Mirasee FM podcast network, hosted by “Teacher Tom” Hobson. In this bonus episode, Dr. Denisha Jones reveals ways traditional education is making children “uncurious.”
Welcome to Teacher Tom's Podcast, which is all about taking play seriously. In each episode, Teacher Tom supports early childhood educators, parents, and other listeners with information, techniques, and best practices to provide children with an authentic play-filled childhood.Dr. Denisha Jones is the Executive Director of Defending the Early Years, an education justice advocacy and activist organization.“Something has gone wrong that we've made kids ‘uncurious' — from kindergarten to twelfth grade. And that's what the entire schooling is.” — Dr. Denisha JonesDr. Denisha Jones is the Executive Director of Defending the Early Years. She is a former kindergarten teacher and preschool director who has spent the past 20 years in teacher education. Denisha is an education justice advocate and activist working with various grassroots organizations to dismantle the neoliberal assault on public education. She is a part-time faculty member in the Art of Teaching program at Sarah Lawrence College and the School of Education at Howard University. Since 2017, she has served on the steering committee for the national Black Lives Matter at School Week of Action. Her first co-edited book, Black Lives Matter at School: An Uprising for Educational Justice, was published in December 2020 by Haymarket Books.Tom “Teacher Tom” Hobson is an early childhood educator, international speaker, education consultant, teacher of teachers, parent educator, and author. He is best known, however, for his namesake blog, Teacher Tom's Blog, where he has posted daily for over a decade, chronicling the life and times of his little preschool in the rain-soaked Pacific Northwest corner of the USA.For nearly two decades, Teacher Tom was the sole employee of the Woodland Park Cooperative School, a parent-owned and operated school knit together by Teacher Tom's democratic, progressive play-based pedagogy. Teacher Tom came into teaching through the backdoor, so to speak, having enrolled his own child in a cooperative preschool, where he began working daily in his daughter's classroom as an assistant teacher under the tutelage of veteran educators — although he'll be the first to tell you that most of what he learned came from the children themselves. When it was time for his daughter to move on, he “stayed behind.”Today, Teacher Tom shares his play-based pedagogy through online e-courses for early childhood educators; produces online early childhood conferences; consults with organizations about his "Family Schools" program; and inspires early-years audiences around the world (Greece, UK, Iceland, Australia, China, Vietnam, New Zealand, Canada, and across the US) both virtually and in-person with his engaging views on early childhood education, play, and pedagogy.He was pressured by his blog readers into authoring his first book, aptly named Teacher Tom's First Book, and is thrilled about the 2023 release of Teacher Tom's Second Book.Resources, people, and websites mentioned in this episode:MiraseeTom's website: TeacherTomsWorld.comDenisha's website: DEY.orgFor show notes, visit How Did We Get Uncurious Kids? (Dr. Denisha Jones)Credits:Host: Tom HobsonProducer: Michi LantzSupervising Producer: Cynthia LambAudio Editor: Marvin del RosarioExecutive Producer: Danny InyMusic Soundscape: Chad Michael SnavelyMaking our hosts sound great: Home Brew AudioMusic credits:Track Title: Blueberry Jam JamArtist: Simen AndreasWriter: Simen KnudsenPublisher: A SOUNDSTRIPE PRODUCTIONTrack Title: Childlike WonderArtist: ReveilleWriter: Brendan St. GelaisPublisher: A SOUNDSTRIPE PRODUCTIONTrack Title: Tick TockArtist: Ivy BakesWriter: Erick PenaPublisher: A SOUNDSTRIPE PRODUCTIONSpecial effects credits:24990513_birds-chirping_by_promission used with permission of the author and under license by AudioJungle/Envato Market.To catch the great episodes coming up on Teacher Tom's Podcast , please follow us on Mirasee FM's YouTube channelor your favorite podcast player. And if you enjoyed the show, please leave us a comment or a starred review. It's the best way to help us get these ideas to more people.Episode transcript: How Did We Get Uncurious Kids? ( Dr. Denisha Jones) coming soon.
Too often, we make huge plans and major resolutions only to get burned out when we can't keep them. What if taking small, consistent, manageable action steps would lead to big changes in your life over time? In today's episode, we will discuss three things you can do today to achieve the change you want to see in your life. Your future self starts today.Here are two FREE Ebooks for you! 1. Shame Off You: 10 steps to shattering shame in your life, HERE. 2. ABC's: CLICK HERE for a FREE E-book to help you combat lies and replace them with God's truth. For more encouragement, check out some of our offerings at www.reclaimedstory.comDid you know we have a jewelry line that speaks to your identity in Jesus? CLICK HERE to shop. Every purchase helps support our mission to provide healing and hope to women worldwide. Would you partner with us to spread the message of hope and healing? You can DONATE HERE. Living the Reclaimed Life is a Reclaimed Story, Inc. podcast, An Arizona non-profit corporation. If you would like to connect with a safe group of women doing real-life together, join our private Facebook page, “Living the Reclaimed Life” or on Facebook or Instagram
In the 6 AM Hour: Larry O'Connor and Julie Gunlock discussed: WMAL GUEST: 6:05 AM - INTERVIEW - DENISHA ALLEN - American Federation for Children (AFC) Senior Fellow and Black Minds Matter founder on school choice rally in DC on Wednesday https://twitter.com/BLK_MindsMatter “Time to Hear From Momma” School Choice Rally at 12:00 p.m. – 2:00 p.m. EST on Wednesday, January 24, 2024* / Lincoln Memorial Mall 50-year-old trans swimmer shared locker room while competing against teens: ‘The girls were terrified' The White House has a pharmacy — and it was a mess, a new investigation found WMAL GUEST: 6:35 AM - INTERVIEW - Syndicated columnist CAL THOMAS on the NH primary Kari Lake calls on Arizona GOP chair to resign after reports of leaked audio Where to find more about WMAL's morning show: Follow the Show Podcasts on Apple podcasts, Audible and Spotify. Follow WMAL's "O'Connor and Company" on X: @WMALDC, @LarryOConnor, @Jgunlock, @patricepinkfile and @heatherhunterdc. Facebook: WMALDC and Larry O'Connor Instagram: WMALDC Show Website: https://www.wmal.com/oconnor-company/ How to listen live weekdays from 5 to 9 AM: https://www.wmal.com/listenlive/ Episode: Wednesday, January 24, 2024 / 6 AM Hour O'Connor and Company is proudly presented by Veritas Academy!See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
WMAL GUEST: 6:05 AM - INTERVIEW - DENISHA ALLEN - American Federation for Children (AFC) Senior Fellow and Black Minds Matter founder on school choice rally in DC on Wednesday https://twitter.com/BLK_MindsMatter “Time to Hear From Momma” School Choice Rally at 12:00 p.m. – 2:00 p.m. EST on Wednesday, January 24, 2024* / Lincoln Memorial Mall Where to find more about WMAL's morning show: Follow the Show Podcasts on Apple podcasts, Audible and Spotify. Follow WMAL's "O'Connor and Company" on X: @WMALDC, @LarryOConnor, @Jgunlock, @patricepinkfile and @heatherhunterdc. Facebook: WMALDC and Larry O'Connor Instagram: WMALDC Show Website: https://www.wmal.com/oconnor-company/ How to listen live weekdays from 5 to 9 AM: https://www.wmal.com/listenlive/ Episode: Wednesday, January 24, 2024 / 6 AM Hour O'Connor and Company is proudly presented by Veritas Academy!See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
There are many names for Jesus, but what do they mean? What do they mean for us in the unique story that is our lives? In this episode, we will discover why He is called Everlasting Father and Prince of Peace. We pray that you will gain a new perspective on our Savior born in a manger over two thousand years ago and how those names are so relevant to us today. Christmas is right around the corner, and we have designed 17 brand-new pieces of jewelry! That brings us to over 70 pieces of inspirational jewelry and journals on our website! https://reclaimedstory.com/shop/If you want meaningful presents under the tree, we have them; why not shop and help support a strong women's ministry simultaneously? You can find all of this on our website www.reclaimedstory.com/shop. Here are two FREE Ebooks for you! 1. Shame Off You: 10 steps to shattering shame in your life, HERE. 2. ABC's: CLICK HERE for a FREE E-book to help you combat lies and replace them with God's truth. For more encouragement, check out some of our offerings at www.reclaimedstory.comDid you know we have a jewelry line that speaks to your identity in Jesus? CLICK HERE to shop. Every purchase helps support our mission to provide healing and hope to women worldwide. Would you partner with us to spread the message of hope and healing? You can DONATE HERE. Living the Reclaimed Life is a Reclaimed Story, Inc. podcast, An Arizona non-profit corporation. If you would like to connect with a safe group of women doing real-life together, join our private Facebook page, “Living the Reclaimed Life” or on Facebook or Instagram
There are many names for Jesus, but what do they mean? What do they mean for us in the unique story that is our lives? In this episode, we will discover why He is called Wonderful Counselor and Mighty God. You'll gain a new perspective on the Savior born in a manger over two thousand years ago and how those names are relevant in our lives today. Christmas is right around the corner, and we have designed 17 brand-new pieces of jewelry! That brings us to over 70 pieces of inspirational jewelry and journals on our website! https://reclaimedstory.com/shop/If you want meaningful presents under the tree, we have them; why not shop and help support a strong women's ministry simultaneously? You can find all of this on our website www.reclaimedstory.com/shop. Here are two FREE Ebooks for you! 1. Shame Off You: 10 steps to shattering shame in your life, HERE. 2. ABC's: CLICK HERE for a FREE E-book to help you combat lies and replace them with God's truth. For more encouragement, check out some of our offerings at www.reclaimedstory.comDid you know we have a jewelry line that speaks to your identity in Jesus? CLICK HERE to shop. Every purchase helps support our mission to provide healing and hope to women worldwide. Would you partner with us to spread the message of hope and healing? You can DONATE HERE. Living the Reclaimed Life is a Reclaimed Story, Inc. podcast, An Arizona non-profit corporation. If you would like to connect with a safe group of women doing real-life together, join our private Facebook page, “Living the Reclaimed Life” or on Facebook or Instagram
On tonight's show, I'll have Thom Benson with the Tennessee Aquarium & Denisha Tiffin with Happy Hollow Outdoors! I hope you will listen and share.
Tomorrow's show will be an encore presentation of my show with Thom Benson with Tennessee Aquarium & Denisha Tiffin with Happy Hollow Outdoors! You'll hear a brand new edition of Cora's Corner as Cora reads Weather Wonders: Exploring the Skies with Mom by Tonia Michele WBRC!
In this episode of Talking HealthTech, host Peter Birch is joined by Denisha Allicock, Public Health Strategist at MTX, and Bryan Tan, Chief Health Officer for Salesforce APAC. They discuss innovative solutions being developed in healthcare technology, particularly in the areas of mental health and integrated behavioural health. They delve into the importance of collaborative partnerships for innovation and the role of technology in connecting healthcare professionals and patients. Key Takeaways:
Denisha Allen, American Federation for Children Senior Fellow and Black Minds Matter Founder, joined WMAL's morning show to discuss Maryland Teachers Union raking in millions while student performance scores are abysmal. Where to find more about WMAL's morning show: Follow the Show Podcasts on Apple podcasts, Audible and Spotify. Follow WMAL's "O'Connor and Company" on X: @WMALDC, @LarryOConnor, @Jgunlock, @patricepinkfile and @heatherhunterdc. Facebook: WMALDC and Larry O'Connor Instagram: WMALDC Show Website: https://www.wmal.com/oconnor-company/ How to listen live weekdays from 5 to 9 AM: https://www.wmal.com/listenlive/ Episode: Friday, November 17, 2023See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
In 6 AM Hour: Some young Americans on TikTok say they sympathize with Osama bin Laden TikTok removes hashtag for Osama bin Laden's ‘Letter to America' after viral videos circulate GUEST: 6:35 AM - INTERVIEW - DENISHA ALLEN - American Federation for Children Senior Fellow and Black Minds Matter Founder 75% of Palestinians in Gaza and the West Bank support Hamas and the October 7 atrocities. Palestinian civilians overwhelmingly support Hamas' attacks on Israel that killed over 1,400, including children and babies, and which resulted in 240 hostages taken, Where to find more about WMAL's morning show: Follow the Show Podcasts on Apple podcasts, Audible and Spotify. Follow WMAL's "O'Connor and Company" on X: @WMALDC, @LarryOConnor, @Jgunlock, @patricepinkfile and @heatherhunterdc. Facebook: WMALDC and Larry O'Connor Instagram: WMALDC Show Website: https://www.wmal.com/oconnor-company/ How to listen live weekdays from 5 to 9 AM: https://www.wmal.com/listenlive/ Episode: Friday, November 17, 2023See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Have you ever been in a conversation where someone shared something incredibly painful with you, and you found yourself not knowing how to respond? Perhaps they shared about a traumatic moment in their life or a hurt that they are currently experiencing. What you say in those moments matters. In this episode, we hope to equip you with practical tools to confidently sit in those moments and be a helper when someone is hurting. Before we jump into today's episode, it's hard to believe it, but Christmas is right around the corner, and we have designed 17 brand-new pieces of jewelry! That brings us to over 70 pieces of inspirational jewelry and journals on our website! https://reclaimedstory.com/shop/If you want meaningful presents under the tree, we have them; why not shop and help support a strong women's ministry simultaneously? You can find all of this on our website www.reclaimedstory.com/shop. Here are two FREE Ebooks for you! 1. Shame Off You: 10 steps to shattering shame in your life, HERE. 2. ABC's: CLICK HERE for a FREE E-book to help you combat lies and replace them with God's truth. For more encouragement, check out some of our offerings at www.reclaimedstory.comDid you know we have a jewelry line that speaks to your identity in Jesus? CLICK HERE to shop. Every purchase helps support our mission to provide healing and hope to women worldwide. Would you partner with us to spread the message of hope and healing? You can DONATE HERE. Living the Reclaimed Life is a Reclaimed Story, Inc. podcast, An Arizona non-profit corporation. If you would like to connect with a safe group of women doing real-life together, join our private Facebook page, “Living the Reclaimed Life” or on Facebook or Instagram
In this week's episode, Nina and Denisha Smith, LPC SEP discuss:Denisha's journey in becoming a trauma therapist that specializes in somatics.resources Denisha created to help clients practice embodiment.trauma treatment professionals Denisha recommends following.We invite you tolearn more about Denisha on social media:InstagramLinkedInexplore Denisha's website with all her offerings: Embodied Cultureconsider the following trauma treatment professionals Denisha mentioned during this episode:Holistic Life NavigationResmaa MenakemMaggie Kliencheck out more free resources from TTC on our blog/vlog.become a part of the FREE TTC online community.stay connected to TTC by signing up here.Until next time!
Have you ever dreaded holiday gatherings because you and the people you love have different views on things that are important to you? We want you to look forward to the holidays with your loved ones, so let's get super practical today, as we give you eight ways you can navigate healthy disagreements around the table this holiday season. Here is your free E-book from this podcast, Navigating Healthy DisagreementsBefore we jump into today's episode, it's hard to believe it but Christmas is right around the corner and we have designed 17 brand-new pieces of jewelry! That brings us to over 70 pieces of inspirational jewelry and journals on our website! https://reclaimedstory.com/shop/If you want meaningful presents under the tree, we have them, why not shop and help support a strong women's ministry at the same time? You can find all of this on our website www.reclaimedstory.com/shop. Now, let's look at eight ways you can navigate healthy disagreements around the table this holiday season. Here are two FREE Ebooks for you! 1. Shame Off You: 10 steps to shattering shame in your life, HERE. 2. ABC's: CLICK HERE for a FREE E-book to help you combat lies and replace them with God's truth. For more encouragement, check out some of our offerings at www.reclaimedstory.comDid you know we have a jewelry line that speaks to your identity in Jesus? CLICK HERE to shop. Every purchase helps support our mission to provide healing and hope to women worldwide. Would you partner with us to spread the message of hope and healing? You can DONATE HERE. Living the Reclaimed Life is a Reclaimed Story, Inc. podcast, An Arizona non-profit corporation. If you would like to connect with a safe group of women doing real-life together, join our private Facebook page, “Living the Reclaimed Life” or on Facebook or Instagram
On this episode of Banking on KC, Denisha Jones, founder of Sweet Peaches Cobblers, joins host Kelly Scanlon to discuss how perfecting her grandmother's peach cobbler during the pandemic led to a wholesale business featuring a line of frozen cobblers and pie fillings distributed throughout the Midwest. Tune in to discover: How a pandemic pivot launched Denisha's entrepreneurial journey. How G.I.F.T. program grants helped fuel the growth of Sweet Peaches Cobblers. Insights into refining your company pitch, finding a mentor, understanding your finances, and taking advantage of Kansas City's entrepreneurial resources. Why it's important for Denisha to give back to the community. Country Club Bank – Member FDIC
On this week's Education Gadfly Show podcast, Denisha Allen, a senior fellow at the American Federation for Children, joins Mike to discuss if school choice can win a victory in Texas's special legislative session. Then, on the Research Minute, Amber reports on a new study that examines the shrinking wage premium for college degrees.Recommended content:“Advance school choice, because Black minds matter, too” —Denisha Allen“School choice faces special session fight in Texas” —The Hill“What you make depends on where you live: College earnings across states and metropolitan areas” —Fordham InstituteLeila Bengali, Marcus Sander, Robert Valletta, and Cindy Zhao, “Falling college wage premiums by race and ethnicity,” The Federal Research Bank of San Francisco (August 2023).Feedback Welcome: Have ideas for improving our podcast? Send them to Daniel Buck at dbuck@fordhaminstitute.org.
For more coverage on the issues that matter to you, visit www.WMAL.com, download the WMAL app or tune in live on WMAL-FM 105.9 FM from 5-9 AM ET. To join the conversation, check us out on Twitter: @WMALDC, @LarryOConnor, @Jgunlock, @patricepinkfile and @heatherhunterdc. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
For more coverage on the issues that matter to you, visit www.WMAL.com, download the WMAL app or tune in live on WMAL-FM 105.9 FM from 5-9 AM ET. To join the conversation, check us out on Twitter: @WMALDC, @LarryOConnor, @Jgunlock, @patricepinkfile and @heatherhunterdc. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
09/20/2023 Bruh Issa Murder About The Guest(s): Mama Margot is the host of the true crime podcast Military Murder. She is an attorney by trade and is passionate about sharing the stories of military members involved in criminal cases. Summary: In this episode, the host is joined by Mama Margot, the host of the podcast Military Murder, to discuss the mysterious death of Denisha Montgomery Smith, a military police officer who reported a physical assault before her death. The case raises questions about a possible cover-up and the handling of the investigation by the military. The host and Brooke analyze the evidence, including a video call in which Denisha details her assault and discusses the challenges faced when investigating assaults in the military. They also highlight the importance of seeking help and maintaining a paper trail. The episode concludes with a call for justice and transparency in Denisha's case. Key Takeaways: Denisha Montgomery Smith reported a physical assault to her chain of command before her death. The military initially ruled Denisha's death a suicide but has not provided the family with the full investigation file. The video call in which Denisha details her assault provides evidence supporting her claims. The military's handling of the case raises questions about transparency and accountability. Individuals need to seek help and maintain a paper trail in cases of assault or abuse. Quotes: "The soldier herself had reported a physical assault to her chain of command and her family weeks before her death." "The question arises is, did this assault have to do with her death? Was there a cover-up, or is this a bad situation or circumstances?" "The family, Denisha's family, are asking for information, and the military isn't completely open about it." "The whole attack is so just, it seems to me over the top. First of all, uncalled for." "If we wouldn't have had her recording to her family, everyone would just be like, oh, the family is just they just didn't know anything about Denisha." "The military needs to be more transparent with what is going on during those investigations and also give people... the proper investigation." "The more we continue to share Denisha's story and keep her out there, the more other people and possible victims will learn about the cases." Social Media Handles and CTAs: Check out Denisha Montgomery Smith's Fund Me Here: https://www.gofundme.com/f/justice-for-pfc-denisha-smith. Follow Bruh Issa Murder on Twitter and Instagram: @Bruhissamurder Check Us out on YouTube! Leave a review and subscribe to the podcast on your favorite platform. https://linktr.ee/Bruhissamurder Links to services for suicidal vets Veterans Crisis Line: Call 988, press 1, chat online, or text 838255. VA Mental Health: Get help from Veterans Crisis Line, or find a VA mental health provider near you. National Suicide Prevention Lifeline: Call 988 or chat online. Crisis Text Line: Text HOME to 741741. The Trevor Project: Call 1-866-488-7386, text START to 678678, or chat online. Trans Lifeline: Call 1-877-565-8860. SAMHSA National Helpline: Call 1-800-662-HELP (4357). VA Suicide Prevention Resources: Find more information and resources on suicide prevention for Veterans. Additional resources: Tragedy Assistance Program for Survivors (TAPS): Support for families of fallen military members. Military OneSource: Free, confidential support for active-duty military members, National Guard and Reserve members, Veterans, and their families. Headstrong: Free, confidential, one-on-one mental health care for Veterans. Battle Buddy: Peer support for Veterans. The American Legion: Support and resources for Veterans and their families. Veterans of Foreign Wars (VFW): Support and resources for Veterans and their families. Let's Talk About the Mysterious Death of Denisha Montgomery SmithFeatured Song: I Be Really Knowing By Jasen
Welcome back to the Love Is Black Podcast! Join us this week as we continue telling the ultimate black love story. On this episode accompany Vybe to the Queen Summer revival party and then to Denisha's wedding. Did her mishap with Brandon affect her experience at the concert that same evening, or change the dynamics of the wedding? Let's dive in and find out! --- Send in a voice message: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/loveisblack/message
We were delighted to have Wendi Lou Lee on the podcast for the last couple of episodes, who played Baby Grace on the popular TV series Little House on the Prairie. Wendi talked about how grace can hide in the most challenging moments and gave us practical ways to look for grace daily in our lives. She described it as "unexpected, obscured beauty that is often ready to bloom in the best and worst times." Wendi went into depth of what grace looks like in our lives. Be sure to pick up a copy of Wendi's new book, Red Tail Feathers HEREToday, we are going to look at a misconception of grace. Have you ever felt like grace gets you in the door to heaven, but your own good deeds and obedience keep you there? As a person who likes to achieve, I often struggle with this. In this episode, I am sharing a sermon that I gave a few years back that unpacks this misconception, and I pray that it speaks to you today as we seek accuracy to this misconception of grace. Here are two FREE Ebooks for you! 1. Shame Off You: 10 steps to shattering shame in your life, HERE. 2. ABC's: CLICK HERE for a FREE E-book to help you combat lies and replace them with God's truth. For more encouragement, check out some of our offerings at www.reclaimedstory.comDid you know we have a jewelry line that speaks to your identity in Jesus? CLICK HERE to shop. Every purchase helps support our mission to provide healing and hope to women worldwide. Would you partner with us to spread the message of hope and healing? You can DONATE HERE. Living the Reclaimed Life is a Reclaimed Story, Inc. podcast, An Arizona non-profit corporation. If you would like to connect with a safe group of women doing real-life together, join our private Facebook page, “Living the Reclaimed Life” or on Facebook or Instagram
On August 9, 2022, 27 year old Pfc. Denisha Montgomery Smith was found dead inside Army barracks where she was stationed in Germany. 3 weeks before she was found, she reported that she had been assaulted by fellow soldiers. The Army did not investigate her claims and when she was found dead 21 days later, they ruled her death a suicide. But her family believes she was murdered. Follow Us! IG: @BlackGirlGonePodcast TikTok: @BlackGirlGonePodcast FB: Black Girl Gone Podcast Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices
Denisha Gingles joins us to talk about their papers, Leading the Charge: A Look Inside the Behavior Analysis in Practice Emergency Series of Publications on Systemic Racism and Police Brutality & Igniting Collective Freedom: An Integrative Behavioral Model of Acceptance and Commitment Toward Black Liberation Show Notes Remember to join us on Facebook to suggest articles to review and questions for authors. https://www.facebook.com/BApractice Acknowledgments Host and Executive Producer: Cody Morris, Ph.D., BCBA-D, LBA https://salve.edu/users/dr-cody-morris Assistant Producers Jesse Perrin Biancé Ferrucci Organizational Support ABAI https://www.abainternational.org/welcome.aspx Behavior Analysis in Practice Editor, Stephanie Peterson, Ph.D., BCBA-D, LBA https://www.abainternational.org/journals/bap.aspx Music Cruising Altitude by Jim Carr and his band New Latitude http://www.newlatitudemusic.com Link to Article Leading the Charge: A Look Inside the Behavior Analysis in Practice Emergency Series of Publications on Systemic Racism and Police Brutality | SpringerLink Igniting Collective Freedom: An Integrative Behavioral Model of Acceptance and Commitment Toward Black Liberation | SpringerLink Links from Article Behavior Analysis in Practice | Volume 15, issue 4 (springer.com) freire-pedagogy-of-the-oppressed.pdf (ucsc.edu) Let's Talk About Race book by Julius Lester (thriftbooks.com) References Gingles, D. (2022). Igniting collective freedom: An integrative behavioral model of acceptance and commitment toward black liberation. Behavior Analysis in Practice 15, 1050–1065. https://doi.org/10.1007/s40617-021-00584-6 Gingles, D., Watson-Thompson, J., Anderson-Carpenter, K.D., Tarbox, J., & Peterson, S. (2022). Leading the charge: A look inside the behavior analysis in practice emergency series of publications on systemic racism and police brutality. Behavior Analysis in Practice 15, 1015–1022. https://doi.org/10.1007/s40617-022-00759-9 Matsuda, K., Garcia, Y., Catagnus, R., & Ackerlund Brandt, J. (2020). Can behavior analysis help us understand and reduce racism? A review of the current literature. Behavior Analysis in Practice 13, 336–347. https://doi.org/10.1007/s40617-020-00411-4 Mizael, T. M., de Almeida, J. H., Silveira, C. C., & de Rose, J. C. (2016). Changing racial bias by transfer of functions in equivalence classes. The Psychological Record, 66(3), 451–462. https://doi.org/10.1007/s40732-016-0185-0 Resources Can Behavior Analysis Help Us Understand and Reduce Racism? A Review of the Current Literature by Matsuda, K., Garcia, Y., Catagnus, R. Changing Racial Bias by Transfer of Functions in Equivalence Classes., Mizael, T.M., Almeida, J.H., Silveira, C.C., Rose, J.C. https://www.amazon.com/You-Want-Talk-About-Race/dp/1580056776 https://www.goodreads.com/en/book/show/72657
Travis Scott is in album mode. Utopia will be his first album since 2018, but a lot has changed since then.The industry isn't as hip-hop dominant, hypebeast culture has shifted, and Travis is still navigating things after the 2021 Astroworld Festival tragedy.How will all this influence Utopia? I broke it all down with friend of the pod, Denisha Kuhlor. Here's what we covered:0:43 How hip-hop has changed since Astroworld8:23 Travis sold a lifestyle to success9:29 Why Travis attracted category-leading brand sponsors13:51 Lasting effect of Astroworld Festival tragedy 19:11 How will the “Ragers” respond to Utopia? 24:12 Over/under on Utopia's first-week sales30:01 Pyramid performance in Egypt31:09 Did Travis miss out on building out a major independent brand?Listen: Apple Podcasts | Spotify | SoundCloud | Stitcher | Overcast | Amazon | Google Podcasts | Pocket Casts | RSSHost: Dan Runcie, @RuncieDan, trapital.coGuests: Denisha Kuhlor, @denishakuhlorThis episode is sponsored by DICE. Learn more about why artists, venues, and promoters love to partner with DICE for their ticketing needs. Visit dice.fmEnjoy this podcast? Rate and review the podcast here! ratethispodcast.com/trapitalTrapital is home for the business of music, media and culture. Learn more by reading Trapital's free memo.TRANSCRIPT[00:00:00] Denisha Kuhlor: When we look at the caliber of the brands that he was able to pull, I think that was the difference between him being a 10 or 20 million a year artist that we were who we would be praising his work ethic versus this $100 million artist that were like, wow.[00:00:17] Dan Runcie Intro Audio: Hey, welcome to the Trapital Podcast. I'm your host and the founder of Trapital Dan Runcie. This podcast is your place to gain insights from the executives in music, media, entertainment, and more who are taking hip hop culture to the next level.[00:00:43] Dan Runcie: All right, we're going to get deep into the world of Utopia. Travis Scott is upon the release of his fourth album, and this one has been long anticipated for several years now. But a lot's changed since the last time that Travis Scott released his album, Astroworld, which came out summer 2018. But there's been two big things that have happened.One, the pandemic. And then two, the tragedy of the Astroworld concert, and we have seen the heights of Travis Scott in that era, thinking specifically about the Fornite series that he had, we've also seen the lows of it as well, especially given the aftermath of the people that died and all of the injuries and all of the broader conversations around concert safety.Travis Scott's role in this himself and other things too. And I want to talk about this with you. So we have Denisha Culloran, who's the founder of STAN. You work specifically in artist engagement and have written pieces on many of the superstars. Let's first start with where hip hop is because we're now in 2023, and I feel like we're in a very different spot than we were when Travis Scott released his last album, Astroworld. So what's changed for you? Where were we with hip hop then and music then? And where are we now?[00:01:59] Denisha Kuhlor: Yeah, I think that hip hop is, undergoing a new era, at least from a quantitative or commercial success standpoint, in the last few years and probably in some ways due to the pandemic, I feel like we've seen the emergence of what I like to think of as dance music. I mean, Beyonce released a dance album, Drake, one of the biggest hip hop stars himself released a dance album. Even when you look at the rise of music, non English music, right? Whether that's music coming out of Africa or, you know, what Bad Bunny has done as well. People are, gravitating to music that doesn't necessarily have to do with the lyrics in the way that rap shines.So I would say to sum it up that rap is having, a bit of a fall from dominance.[00:02:46] Dan Runcie: And it's interesting with Travis Scott too, because I feel like he benefited from this transition to an era where people aren't necessarily listening for. The lyrics, the people that love Travis Scott were so much more interested into the vibe, this rager mentality, and he was a hip hop rock star in terms of how he built himself.And I don't know if a song like highest in the room is necessarily 1 that you're trying to hear in a club, or you're trying to hear dancing, but and so do you think that this transition away from lyrics and more divides? Do you think this hurts someone like Travis or helps them?[00:03:22] Denisha Kuhlor: You know, I like that categorization, hip hop, rock star. I mean, if we were to look at the charts, the one person who has waved the flag for hip hop this year, truly from a commercial standpoint, is Lil Uzi Vert. And I would compare him or categorize him the same way. So when I think about, when I think about that, I say it helps him.[00:03:44] Dan Runcie: Lil Uzi Vert did sample System of a Down in his most recent album. And he definitely has a few songs that sound like that post grunge early 2000s types of artists like Switchfoot and stuff like that. So there's a bit of that mixed in there. Travis Scott has benefited from that too. He's also benefited from having songs where.You heard multiple sounds being merged into each other. I'm thinking, of course, like sicko mode where you can break the whole song. It sounds like three parts in one together. But again, that was 2018. We're in a very different time right now for hip hop and its releases. And I say that to say the success that Travis Scott had in 2018 to 2020, because I do feel like in a lot of ways, that was the commercial peak.Said as much about him as it did about the broader streaming era, as it did about where culture was. So 1st, he himself, he emerges on the scene. He speaks to this audience of hip hop fans that. Really didn't have someone that was reaching them specifically Travis Scott born in the early 90s. So he's still millennial, but he definitely reached more of that older Gen Z audience.And let's say someone like Drake or Kendrick or J Cole did and he related to that hype beast culture. He did it with how he dropped his music, how he thought about merch collaborations and any of the partnerships that he had. And we'll get into those in a minute, but that was the ethos of what he did.And especially at that time with the way that Billboard was counting album bundles that really worked to his advantage because he combined his hype beast and his ability to sell things and essentially be a walking Supreme style artists where when he drops Astroworld, he literally has this 24 hour merge operation that is dropping a new product every hour of this.And that's how that album is able to do nearly 50% of its first week. Sales coming from more coming from these albums that come through, or these album bundles that come through. He still did quite well in streaming, but the combination of those leads to him having, I believe it was 537, 000 units selling in his 1st week.And usually the people that project these things are usually pretty on course. And I remember the projections leading up to Astroworld, which like Utopia was also pretty hyped album, but people were expecting things may be in the mid to high 200, 000 range. And he more than doubles that.And you rarely see that much of an artist exceeding the expectations of that perspective. I think a lot of it has to do with people just not expecting him to have dominated things the way that they did. And even though it is 1 of these things where you have to, in some ways, read the fine print to see how those numbers came through.The average person just sees the top line number. No different than you may see. Oh, this movie grossed a hundred and fifty million dollars. You're not trying to read the fine line to say, okay, well, how many of those tickets were IMAX versus cheap movies where it costs less than ten dollars. So go see matinee, you just want to see what's that top line number and it worked really well to his advantage and because there was still model culture definitely wasn't around in 2018 in that way, but we've only become more fragmented since then. So there was still this opportunity, especially with the growth of streaming and these services to really elevate a star. And I think that worked to his advantage as well. So the timing and everything of that Astroworld release couldn't have worked better for him.[00:07:20] Denisha Kuhlor: Yeah, I agree. I think he was really disciplined or it just came natural in terms of building a business that exuded a lifestyle. And it was around the time where having this, like, flywheel of products, benefited, of course, not only the product that he was selling or pushing, but also counted towards his streams. And I think, you know, in the past, a lot of artists maybe didn't get to show their dominance in that way, and our catalog episode, we talked about Beyonce, and Beyonce's numbers and whether they met expectations or didn't meet expectations in terms of her streaming numbers, or in some ways, how she shows up on the charts.But when you see what that fandom looks like mobilized in the form of her live shows, one, you know, a few data points in aggregate, especially when it relates to, streaming or listening habits, clearly don't tell the full story about the fandom. and I think that's where Travis Scott was really able to at that time, show us the power of what he was building.[00:08:25] Dan Runcie: It's good that you mentioned Beyonce too, because that's another example of people just looking at the high level number. People see how many first week sales that Renaissance did, or even the streams that Renaissance has had afterward. There's other artists, whether it's SZA and others that have had albums that have had longer shelf life on streaming versus others, but it's a completely different fan base.This fan base is older. They're not going to sit in front of a computer and just stream your music all day. They're working, but when it's time to show up. They may fly to Vancouver, they may fly to Europe to go look at your tour and go check out what it is. And I think Travis Scott, similarly, he had a fan base that was very beneficial for him with things that were related to e commerce, especially around drops, especially around releases and that worked to him.So when we're talking about artists, finding what product market fit looks like, finding what everything has that's available, it worked to his advantage. So if we fast forward a couple months after the release of Astroworld, Sicko Mode becomes a big hit, it ends up charting, and then that brings Astroworld back to the top of the charts.That February, he performs at the Super Bowl alongside Maroon 5, so then that works to his advantage, and he just continues to have a very strong year. He ends up releasing that documentary and he didn't end up winning a Grammy as we saw the documentary was quite disappointed about that. But then that sets up everything for 2020 and in a year where most musicians struggle because they can't tour and they may have planned to release certain things.Travis Scott's one of the few that actually did win. There was this Forbes article that came out towards the end of 2020 that looked at all of the partnerships that he had with various companies. And we're talking about his collaborations with Nike, Fortnite, McDonald's PlayStation 5, I believe he even had drops associated with the tenant movie that came out that year.They expected that he would gross over a 100Million dollars or that the revenue that he would generate from these things would gross over a 100Million dollars and. It said so much about where we were, especially because people were inside. They didn't have anything better to do than just get the latest merch, get the latest drops.That worked so well to his advantage. And his songs were still popular. I do feel like Astroworld was probably one of the last hip hop albums that felt like it had some legitimate staying power. And then I think that was probably The peak of him, at least what we've seen so far in his career.[00:10:59] Denisha Kuhlor: Yeah, no, I completely, I completely agree. he was in many ways on top of the world. I think he was really thoughtful about how he got to that position. in some ways, even, you know, when you look at things like, the fortnight show, he was really a pioneer, and the days to follow when it came to Web3 or embracing the Internet or new models for artists, who was frequently cited and maybe he doesn't even really get the credit he deserves, for that, and, you know, I'd be remiss if I'd say, I think, he's lucky in a way that, his fan base demographics skew, a population that consumers or that brands want to attract, right? So the brands that really saw an appeal in his music, were brands willing to spend, I mean, Video games, Nike, the brands that he was able to attract, some artists and a lot of hip hop artists, especially, even when we did our ice spice episode, female artists, right? They're able to get a lot of, brand attention.But when we look at the caliber of the brands that he was able to pull, I think that was the difference between him being a 10 or 20 million a year artist that we were who we would be praising his work ethic versus this 100 million. artist that were like, wow.[00:12:18] Dan Runcie: He literally had the biggest brands in their category, right? It wasn't like he had some subcategory. I feel like the only thing he was missing was a visa or master card type of partnership to be like, or American express or one of those, right? It was always the leader space.[00:12:33] Denisha Kuhlor: The time is now with that. I mean, with Kendrick's tour, I don't know if we would have all guessed that, his partner would be in tech company. So I think it'd be really interesting for his next tour to see who he aligns himself with.[00:12:47] Dan Runcie: The interesting thing with Travis though, is that. As I mentioned, I feel like the 2020 was that peak that we had seen, but then by early 2021, this is when we first start hearing about this forthcoming album, Utopia, he announces that he has this, or he posts a screenshot, which is quite cryptic, but he has this movie coming out with a 24.That seems like it may be titled Utopia. Fans are already anticipating it, and it did feel similar to the Astroworld, but Hype in some ways, because even 2 years before that album came out, even before birds of the trap sing McKnight, he was talking about Astroworld. So we felt like we're back to this era and things seem to be cruising.He had already had successful Astroworld festivals on the ground, especially that 1st 1 he had after, the Astroworld Album that came out in 2018. I believe he had another one in 2019 was quite successful. Obviously, he didn't have one due to the early part of the pandemic in 2020, but he then comes in 2021 and you could say that things were already starting to shift at this point because fans were already in that anticipation point. Okay, when's it going to come? We thought the album is going to come, but then everything changes after the tragedy of the Astroworld festival that he has, as we talked about in the beginning, many people died.There was a stampede. And I think there's a few things that we can dig into, but we don't necessarily need to dig into the depths of that in this conversation here. But how do you feel like that event, set the tone for Travis's career and how much it impacted and everything else that we've seen and maybe we'll expect coming forward.[00:14:28] Denisha Kuhlor: Yeah. So, you know, when I, recently rewatched the documentary, his documentary, Look, Mom, I Can Fly and it kind of highlighted some of the culture, right? Around his shows, how his fans showed up at his shows and the overall like tempo of his performances. while in a lot of ways, I think, it didn't matter if people didn't like it, right? Because the ones that did loved it and were truly embracing that culture. I feel like it showed a new light, and light actually probably is the wrong word, but it cast him, in a way, where I think it was the first Big events in a long time, especially post pandemic or post COVID, in which fans were forced to grapple, with like the predicament of other fans, right?whether you're Travis Scott fan or not, we all know what it's like to be at a show, hopefully, or a big show. And so I think it's really tricky, his reaction and his response. I mean, he did the follow up interview with Charlemagne, and in some ways laid a bit low, obviously his legal stuff was sorted out and things like that.I think that it positions him in a way that as fans or casual fans or listeners. Want to really get to know more of him and his ethos the documentary helped a bit with that to understand him better but I think that social relationship or feeling like that one to one relationship is there is going to be stronger than ever, for the success of this album is, I'm sure in that, that events, divided many of his fans, whether it was the event himself or his reaction and follow up to it.[00:16:25] Dan Runcie: I want to dig into that last point, because this may be a tough question to ask. There obviously was very strong reaction to the tragedy of the event, especially considering the lives lost. There was a lot of discussion around that too. Do you think more of the discussion or change in tone about Travis himself was more from the broader people who may not be a rager themselves?Or do you feel like the ragers themselves, Actually changed after this event.[00:16:56] Denisha Kuhlor: Yeah, that's a great question, definitely tough in a way, but in some ways it's simple. It was from the non ragers, right? Because that in itself, in some ways, being at a show like that in itself was difficult for people to understand. So seeing the results of the show, I think, invited many people to cast their opinions in a way that was easy, especially because something went wrong.But, it's like for any show or any artist that has a fan base, you really can't explain the momentum of why you're there in the first place. Now, I do think, though, when it comes to, you know, the second option for that question, if there was to be any, maybe, divide or discussion amongst the fan base, it would be around Travis's follow up after, especially given they're all a part of this culture or all a part of this fandom. But in terms of deciding whether to go, and being critical of that in the first place, definitely from non ragers.[00:18:07] Dan Runcie: Yeah, that's the sentiment that I captured too. I remember his initial response. It didn't necessarily feel like it. Sure, I think there's things that you can say we're left to be desired. I think we think about the broader context of who Travis Scott is in himself. It's this balance between do we feel like the person actually does feel sorrow and disappointment for what happened or do they speak in a way that makes us feel that and I know those are two separate things, but I do think that I believe that Travis does have sorrow for these things. I don't know if he in any interview that he's necessarily had ever had those bullet points or those breakaways. That's like, oh, yeah, when Travis Scott said this 1 thing, you know, that's the thing that, you know, stuck with and not saying that necessarily as a knock that just isn't him. It isn't like how Kendrick Lamar may drop some shit in an interview and you're like, oh, wow, never thought of it that way or even how I think Drake does this as well. Some of that could be a bit of an age thing. I know Travis is now I think he's like 31 and, you know, these guys straight Kendrick and Cole are closer to 40 than they are 30, but it's also a bit of a personality and a dynamic thing too. So I think it's like, just because that it just because a tragedy happened, even though a person may feel bad, I don't know. Even the best P. R. crafted statement doesn't turn them into Michael Eric Dyson in terms of how eloquent they may be with using words and things like that. So that was 1 thing that I thought about with the response[00:19:45] Denisha Kuhlor: I do think when we think about the potential ramifications or how it might affect this upcoming album, that like, this culture of likeability and cancel culture do play a role. And I feel like that's why the documentary was so fascinating in some ways because For so many of us, we're probably at the casual Travis Scott, fans or listeners.We definitely, you know, have audio recognition of the songs. at this point we attribute the songs to him. but little did we know or little did the world know the depth and the passion of, his core fans and his stance. And maybe because, you know, this is a thing with the media. So often, the concept of a stan has been profiled as like the teenage girl, right?The Swifties back when Taylor Swift was coming up, or the One Direction fans, or the Justin Bieber fans that, which is not necessarily Travis fan base, but the similarities in terms of passion. What he means to them, and the music are right there.[00:20:50] Dan Runcie: And I think that's a good place to transition into what we then expect for Utopia. Do you think that those same fans will show up in the same way that we've seen them show up with Astroworld, show up with these merch drops, show up with these product sales year in year out, especially the way they did from that 2018 to 2020 stretch.[00:21:10] Denisha Kuhlor: You know, it's what I'm most curious about myself. When we look at four to five years, it'd be easy to say, you know, obviously, that was a big part of people's lives for whatever age or part of their life they were going through, and naturally, they'll at least give him the first look or first right of refusal to do.So, I'd be remiss though. If I'd say these last 4 or 5 years will really go down in history. And it changed so many people, and truly transformative ways. So I wonder if the conversion in terms of the amount of, like, stands that he'll be able to keep from, the last album to Utopia will be as high as maybe it could have been if the world looked a little different four or four or five years ago.What I do think, though, is, and we saw this with SZA. It really can stand the test of time, especially if the relationship is strong. Fans are ready, audiences are excited. And they want to show up and give that power in a lot of ways. I wonder what's the difference between a fan base that stays.I would point to a Taylor Swift fan base, for example, obviously the Swifties versus a fan base that moves on, you know, you think of the J. Cole song, I think when he's 1985 and he talks about like the actual cyclical nature of hip hop and rap, right? From an artist perspective and for the majority of the artists. They don't hang on and they don't convert. So it's going to be really interesting, but my hunch is that he's going to have to pick up a lot of new fans along the way, only because his fans are in such a stage of adolescence or figuring things out, at least his biggest diehard fans, and can very much be in a new place in their lives now.[00:23:08] Dan Runcie: If the over under on what Travis Scott could do for this album. I'm thinking purely on a first week sales metric here, as you mentioned, Astroworlds did 537. If that's the over under I'm taking the under if the over under is 400. I'm taking the under. And to be honest with you, even if the over under is 300, I'm still taking the under.And here's why, there's so much that has changed in streaming and music since then. And when Travis Scott released Astroworld, hip hop had such an early mover advantage on streaming that it was in the streaming services benefit to push hip hop and to push the hip hop stars that are out in front. So that same summer that Astroworld comes out, Drake had released his album, Scorpion, maybe like 6, 7 weeks before, and there were a few other ones that were strong on the charts, but there were no Taylor, no Beyonce, or no other, you know, big artists that were there at least releasing from that perspective, but a lot's changed now where I don't think the streaming services necessarily need to rely on hip hop in that same way as heavily because of all the growth that's there.Morgan Wallen is still doing over 100, units sold per week and we're almost 20 weeks running now. Country artists weren't doing that in 2018. So it's a very different landscape now. So that's one aspect of it. The 2nd aspect of it is this album will be, at least to my knowledge, 1 of the 1st to take advantage of billboard reintroducing album bundle packs.And that is 1 of the things that Travis benefited from. They took it away for several years. So we saw a lot of hip hop artists take a decline. They'll now bring it back. It's going to be slightly different. However. I think what's changed a bit is that I don't know if hype beast and hype culture is necessarily the same as it as it was in 2018, because I feel like that was the height of when Supreme was doing its best and getting those big, P E deals from Carlisle group.And all of these companies were just, and you're seeing all these specials and document mini documentaries on what is hype and why do these companies start? And why are all these? Gen Z and young millennials lining up at whatever hour across the street. And in a way that, yeah, that stuff still happens, but it doesn't happen in the same aspect.And I don't think someone like Travis Scott has much of a monopoly on that culture, the way that he did then. So I think that hurts it a little bit. And I think the 3rd thing with the absence of a song as big as sickle mode, and even if Travis Scott has better songs on this album, the sickle mode, I haven't heard it. I can't speak to that. It's harder for even a single song in hip hop to capture as much mindshare today in 2013, 2023, as Sicko mode did in 2018. And I remember there was some study that. or some analysis, I think the New York Times or 1 of those places put out where they looked at all the streams of Astroworld and an overwhelming majority of them were people streaming Sicko mode.That's no surprise. That's just the way it is. And you know, it's a power law thing. You need that 1 or 2 hits really to drive things forward, will he pull a few singles that have been loose ones that have done? Well, potentially, Yeah, probably, but we'll see, I think actually, and I know you want to talk about this in a little bit, but Lil Uzi Vert's pink tape could probably be a helpful proxy here.So he released a album in, 2020, and I think it did just under 300, 000, units, and then he released another album a couple of weeks ago, the pink tape, and then that did around one 67. So almost a 50% drop. I mean, he still did number one, but there was a pretty sizable drop. I think Lil Uzi Vert is a different, you know, case than Travis Scott, but this is kind of what we've seen even artists like Drake and others. It's tough to reach those numbers that they did at the height of streaming when they were doing strong numbers and everything else. So I think that if you want to even say someone like J Cole is a cop, I think that his last album was still under 300, 000 or so. So I'd be surprised if Travis Scott got to that level.And the 1 thing I'll say, 2, is I know you mentioned, you know, SZA and just how that fan base stays. We did have some hard numbers to be able to show that just seeing how scissors control stayed on the charts for the past 5 years. I don't yeah, I don't see Astro world on the charts in that same type of way.So if that indicates anything from a staying power perspective, I don't know, but that's where I sit with it.[00:27:36] Denisha Kuhlor: Yeah, no, I'm aligned. I think we're going to see somewhere between 200 K to 300K optimistically. I think that's a great, outcome. I also think the point you made about, hype culture. Is really important, right? we're now in an era where people are covering, the outfits on secession, right?Where people are leaning towards old money or, you know, that culture. it's a lot different. you've seen, you know, even when you look at major houses like LVMH or conglomerates, the efforts and the investment that they've had to put just to stay on top of consumers minds and gain that attention share.I think while bundles are exciting and while it's super exciting that bundles are back and will be counted. It really is going to take a lot for it to garner fans attention. Even with Beyonce, I think maybe, I mean, what she did was really interesting with the mystery boxes, but it'll need to have some type of true pull or gravitas beyond really just the product itself, because consumers have built affinity to a lot more brands, a lot more rising brands, a lot more, influencers even, to justify potentially just that much.[00:28:58] Dan Runcie: What do you make of the Pyramids performance that's upcoming for Travis Scott?[00:29:03] Denisha Kuhlor: Yeah. So the first thing that comes to mind is Russ and Russ's tweet saying that he, you know, he did it first and his fans reminded everyone, what I will say is. I do think it's a testament to his artistry, and his ability to truly want to or have this desire to maybe think outside the box and try new things.As someone who, goes back and forth between, I guess, Africa and, the States, I think those types of things are always tricky, in terms of going to any place, right? And maybe in some ways wanting to encompass it as part of your art, while not always fully immersing yourself in the location. So I know he's, an artist and obviously want to respect his artistic will. But when it comes down to how it might be more broadly perceived outside the United States. I'm really curious to actually see the sentiment. What are your thoughts there?[00:30:05] Dan Runcie: That's a good point. And something that isn't necessarily talked about a lot, right? A lot of the Westerners may see that and be like, oh, dope. Cool. Did it in one of the seven wonders of the world, right? But yeah, what do Egyptians feel about that? What do people from the Middle East feel about that? Is this a stunt to capture attention?And in many ways, we know that it is an opportunity to capture attention. Just the statement itself. Oh, I'm doing this. You want to make it big. You do want to make it big. It definitely captured my attention. I'm not going to act like I'm above it, right? Oh, this could be interesting to see, but I think you bring up a very good point about it.And is there some type of tie in or some type of relationship there? We'll see, I don't know, but I think that's a good thing to think about there. The 1 question I do want to ask you before we wrap things up here is. We talk a lot. Oh, you and I've talked a lot about artists, market fit, creator, market fit, and just how they find products and things that work well for them.And I look at people like Mr. Beast and he's someone who they've launched products. Off of his likeness and off of his brand, some of those products haven't worked as well. We recently heard that beast burgers had shut down and there's also been several P. E. and venture capital firms that have tried to spin up investment company or investment firms that are specifically focused on either, A, trying to find the next Mr. Beast or be trying to fund projects or businesses that are based off of the likeness of the influence that these creators do have. Travis Scott has a lot of similarities, especially we think about the influence from an e commerce perspective. I don't know if the timing was now, maybe the time it could have been a few years ago.But do you think there was an opportunity for him to have launched a more traditional business off of Cactus Jack, the same way that we see he's so synonymous with drop culture and he's so synonymous with those things. Was there an opportunity to do something like that?[00:32:06] Denisha Kuhlor: Yeah, I think absolutely, you know, nowadays it's really interesting in terms of some of the biggest brands have, skewed beyond the celebrity. People had a lot to say about Skims, right? But we can't deny, that it's a great business and people really like the product. Kim Kardashian or not, they like the product. I think during that period when he was on top of the world, that was a really interesting time, especially during COVID when he wasn't, traveling as much or touring as much, to be able to bring something to market that would really excite fans and fans and consumers, it almost feels like that opportunities past now, because that like height of fandom is not the same. But I also think that a lot of artists don't want to, and maybe that is very much okay, when I watched the documentary, I kept reflecting back on. The ownership that he gravitated to taking when it came to the control of his shows.I mean, getting in the weeds about his lights, his sound, his pyrotechnics, to a level that almost reminded me of Beyonce. In the sense of how much he wanted to direct and produce the show in real time and how passionate he was about that. So while, the answer is yes, right?And if I was talking to a manager, an agent, they'd be like, hell yeah. I also think it's okay to maybe recognize that he had, like we said, some of the biggest brands in the world, cutting him really, really great checks that required him to be hands on, Yes, but also gave him a certain level of ability to turn off his laptop for the day or walk away while being able to tap into the supply chains and resources and expertise that they had at their disposal.So, while yes, in some ways he's done a great job at becoming really liquid off just his likeness. , and maybe he's not necessarily from an artist market fit standpoint, the archetype of artists that would have done it long enough for it to be lucrative or successful in comparison to his other ventures.[00:34:23] Dan Runcie: Great comparison on Beyonce. We've clearly seen some of the e commerce and brand struggles that some of her products have had recently, but people will show up for the concert people would show up for the event and you talking about how particular and focused Travis is on the ownership of the performance and the stage. It makes me think of that line in antidote where he's like kicking the camera man off of my stage. Cause I don't like, I always capture my angles, which was literally from something that he did at a national concert. So I think that's a good point there. And of course, underlying, let's say he launched something either end of 2019 and, or beginning of 2020, like right when things were taken off. It's one thing for the Travis Scott brand itself to have taken a hit after the Astroworld tragedy. I could even imagine where that company would be today. And especially just given where anything that we just talked about, how, you know, hype beast culture and things like that just aren't where they are right now.So we'll see, I say all that to say, I know that you shared a bunch of caveats in this conversation. I'm still going to listen to the album. I'm still intrigued. I do want this person to succeed. I very much like Travis Scott, but I also realized that for the average artist having a four to five year peak run is much more common, especially for someone that reaches those levels. And then even someone having a true generational career like Drake or Jay Z is few and far between. So even if it doesn't hit the same numbers, I don't think it's necessarily a knock. It's more so reality of the business.[00:35:51] Denisha Kuhlor: Yeah, I think, the Drake's JC's, even the J Cole's are only going to become rare and rare as attention gets harder, but a strong 5 year, strong 5 to 7 year career that makes truly like, good income that an artist can then use to divest or maybe even sell their catalog, is like the 1% nowadays, for the industry. I agree.[00:36:13] Dan Runcie: Indeed. Well, Denisha, this was fun. Thanks again for coming on. And who knows, maybe we'll have to check in after Utopia at some point to see what the post Travis Scott return looks like. Thanks again for coming[00:36:25] Denisha Kuhlor: We definitely need an update. Of course, thanks for having me.[00:36:28] Dan Runcie: All right. Great.[00:36:29] Dan Runcie Outro Audio: If you enjoyed this podcast, go ahead and share it with a friend, copy the link, text it to a friend, post it in your group chat, post it in your Slack groups, wherever you and your people talk, spread the word. That's how Trapital continues to grow and continues to reach the right people. And while you're at it, if you use Apple podcast.Go ahead, rate the podcast, give it a high rating and leave a review. Tell people why you like the podcast that helps more people discover the show. Thank you in advance. Talk to you next week.
Afro-Centric Critical Thinking Griot Dr. David Horne will take over our classroom to examine Cornel West's Presidential bid and its impact, if any on the 2024 Presidential Race. He will also provide us with a Reparations update. Before Dr. Horne, Baltimore City Educational Advocate Denisha Allen will discuss why Baltimore City Schools rank amongst the lowest in nationwide graduation rates. Sister Marsha Adebayo will also update us on the fight to save a Black cemetery in Bethesda, Maryland. Learn More About The 54 Countries of Africa Text "DCnews" to 52140 For Local & Exclusive News Sent Directly To You! The Big Show starts on WOLB at 1010 AM, wolbbaltimore.com, WOL 95.9 FM & 1450 AM & woldcnews.com at 6 am ET., 5 am CT., 3 am PT., and 11 am BST. Call-In # 800 450 7876 to participate, & listen liveSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
On this episode of "The Big Bid Theory" podcast, we dive into the question, "What is the strategic impact that local government can make?" We shift the focus to small businesses, emphasizing the notion that "government works for you." Our special guest, Denisha Harris, the Purchasing and Contracts Manager for the town of Cary, North Carolina, joins us to the opportunity for local government to support small businesses.As we discuss her journey to becoming Cary's Purchasing and Contracts Manager, Denisha's story reflects the importance of previous experiences and the guidance of influential individuals along the way.With her involvement in various organizations, including being a speaker at NCAGP's event and serving on the North Carolina Governor Roy Cooper's Advisory Council on Historically Underutilized Businesses, Denisha has witnessed firsthand the transformative power of intentional inclusion. Together, we acknowledge the need for improved communication, transparency, and support for MWBE (Minority and Women Business Enterprises) and other small businesses in the public sector purchasing process.In this episode, Denisha and Bill Culhane discuss a few of the opportunities and challenges faced by government agencies and MWBE businesses. Denisha passionately advocates for greater transparency, enhanced access to opportunities, and comprehensive assistance programs. By equipping MWBE businesses and fostering an inclusive environment, local governments can unleash their strategic impact and create a level playing field for all participants.As a look ahead to us handing out tee-shirts (while supplies last) at NIGP Forum, Rick shares his favorite tee-shirt. Of course, he delivers another interesting, timely Crazy Bids you can win. Join us for this enlightening conversation that highlights the ways in which local government can work hand in hand with small businesses. Discover how the government can truly serve as an ally, empowering and supporting entrepreneurs to thrive in the public sector. Tune in to gain valuable insights from Denisha Harris and explore the boundless possibilities when government truly works for you.For more information about BidPrime go to www.bidprime.com. To learn more about Beacon Bid, visit www.beaconbid.com.Our guest: Denisha Harris, Purchasing and Contracts Manager Town of Cary, North Carolina, Denisha.Harris@carync.gov
Even by today's standards, Ice Spice's meteoric rise is something else. She first hit it big in August 2022 with the viral release of “Munch.” Since then, Ice Spice has the most top 5 hits on the Billboard 100 in 2023 and guest appeared on Taylor Swift's Eras Tour.How did we get here? Her aura, her music, her cinnamon-colored curls, and more have helped her stand out in an oversaturated industry.To explain how Ice Spice's star was born and where it could go next, I brought on friend of the pod, Denisha Kuhlor. Here's what we covered:[2:07] The People's Princess [4:11] Ice Spice's success by the numbers [6:23] “Always shipping” has kept Ice Spice's momentum [7:26] Performing on Taylor Swift's Eras Tour[09:49] What makes Ice Spice unique? [13:24] Artists' relatability factor[20:27] Cultivating the Munchkins fanbase[24:00] What is a music global superstar in 2023?[31:39] Sexist dialogue around female rappers[35:56] How female rappers stand out[42:03] Ice Spice's intentionsListen: Apple Podcasts | Spotify | SoundCloud | Stitcher | Overcast | Amazon | Google Podcasts | Pocket Casts | RSSHost: Dan Runcie, @RuncieDan, trapital.coGuests: Denisha Kuhlor, @denishakuhlorThis episode is sponsored by DICE. Learn more about why artists, venues, and promoters love to partner with DICE for their ticketing needs. Visit dice.fmEnjoy this podcast? Rate and review the podcast here! ratethispodcast.com/trapitalTrapital is home for the business of music, media and culture. Learn more by reading Trapital's free memo.TRANSCRIPT[00:00:00] Denisha Kuhlor: What is interesting about, Ice Spice is they feel like everyone's learning in real time, and they feel like they get to be a part of it. So in some ways, I do think that her fan base is interesting because it's like they're co-creating a bit, in a way that hasn't that other artists, maybe they've wanted to, but like the true actual product and creation to a product process hasn't been as interactive as, hasn't been as interactive as before.There's no wall the way with other artists. There's Really no wall. It feels like the conversations or the quote tweets that she's having on Twitter really feel like conversations amongst friends from how they crack jokes to the colloquialisms that are there. [00:00:45] Dan Runcie Audio Intro: Hey, welcome to the Trapital Podcast. I'm your host and the founder of Trapital, Dan Runcie. This podcast is your place to gain insights from executives in music, media, entertainment, and more who are taking hip hop culture to the next level.[00:01:13] Dan Runcie Guest Intro: Two years ago. Ice Spice was a college student at SUNY Purchase doing her thing, like most college students do today. She's had one of the most Meteoric rises, especially in the past year. Everything that's happened in ice spices career since she dropped Munch last summer.It has been very fascinating to watch how a star blows up in 2023. In 2023 in this era that we're in now. And today's episode is a breakdown on that. What does it all mean? How did she get here? What did Ice Spice do differently that other artists right now haven't been able to do to reach the levels that she has?And how do we make sense of it all with what to expect with her career moving forward? If you ask the people on her team, whether that's the record labels, the management, the folks that she's working with, they think they have the next global superstar on their hands, but what does that term even mean, and what does that term mean today in an era where it's harder than ever for today's bright young stars to reach the same levels that the past global superstars have reached, especially for an artist from the us.To break it all down, we're joined by friend of the show, Denisha Kuhlor, who's the founder of Stan. She does great work in analyzing artist strategies and looking at Ice Spice and the Munchkins was a great opportunity for us to dive in. So here's our deep dive on Ice Spice. Hope you enjoy it.[00:02:35] Dan Runcie: All right, today we are back and we're gonna talk about the Princess Diana of hip hop, herself Ice Spice. It's only right and we're gonna talk about it and break it all down with someone who has written about her and does studies on fan bases as well. So you were the perfect person to have on Denisha Kuhlor, welcome back. Hi. Thanks for having me back. Ice Spice is so fascinating in a lot of ways because. go back to just two years ago. We weren't necessarily having conversations about her. She had released a few singles back then. Some were in collaboration with her dad, who is also a rapper.But things really blew up last summer. She puts out Munch, it becomes a drill anthem, a New York anthem. And then we just see this meteoric rise and you look at where she is now. Here are a few stats just to level set this conversation. She has 36 million monthly Spotify listeners that puts her above people like Jay-Z, Tyler the creator, Jack Harlow, the Beatles.So she's in pretty high company there and she's continued to stay in that area. And just for some context here, Spotify says that this is from their most recent loud and clear report. Spotify says that 130 artist catalogs on their platform are generating at least 5 million annually. So the artist catalogs themselves.Obviously the splits can be different, so if you use those numbers, and you said that I is currently 81st. In terms of all artists there, she's clearly in that lane. Obviously, you have to be able to maintain that for a year, but if you also assume that Spotify itself is roughly a quarter of the. Recorded music revenue that comes through, that's over 20 million dollars that we're seeing there.So we are clearly seeing that she has things from a stream perspective and she just came out for three nights of Taylor Swift's show in the Meadowlands at MetLife Stadium. So how do you make sense of this all? Where do you think about Ice spice and the rise and where she is right now in her career?[00:04:39] Denisha Kuhlor: Yeah, I think our space has been so fun to watch. It feels like every few years there's a people's champ, and they always seem to tend to originate from New York. and so seeing her do what she's done with in some ways what feels like, her back against the wall, when Munch came out, it was a lot of critical, critical takes, and the reception wasn't necessarily all positive. So to see how she's kind of, flipped this moment and the light shining on her into a real, you know, bonafide career based off the statue just mentioned is really exciting.[00:05:12] Dan Runcie: I think it highlights. What's possible now, today we've seen artists blow up and become household names in a short amount of time that isn't relatively new. If anything, you can honestly say it's harder to do now, just given the fact that it does take even more work and more time to develop a true superstar.And I do think that's a word that gets thrown around quite a bit. The thing with ice spice though, is that. He's also someone we've seen continue to maintain momentum. Yeah. In an era where someone could be hot for a few months and then you just don't necessarily have that moment again. Yeah. As back early, back as eight years ago, Fetty Wap had that one summer in 2015 where he just had hit after hit.Yeah. And they went consistently with it. That story and the challenges there have been told endless times, but that wasn't a long-lived experience either. And Ice Spice is clearly been able to even expand that from that perspective. I do think that I've heard a few people talk about how fame and talent are things that have had a very symbiotic relationship for years in music, just given how it was very hard to separate the two, especially if you were an artist that rose to the top. Yeah. you had to have a full package at least to be able to be in the conversation. I spice though, as someone who's continued to rise in, I think she has had songs that people liked, songs that people didn't like, people criticizing her flow, people criticizing this, and even some of her performances and things like that.But she's continued to build and grow in public, and it hasn't necessarily knocked her in any type of way. [00:06:51] Denisha Kuhlor: Yeah, I think she wins because she takes like a startup approach in the sense that she's always shipping, while, you know, Munch had its audience and its fan base. Her follow-ups definitely one introduced her to new audiences, but allowed her to keep shipping and testing and iterating on what works. She definitely takes an approach or it feels like just when you think like, okay, like this moment is done, or, you know, the time has lapsed. she's coming out with something new and something that's not expected, and frankly, something that just continues to place her even bigger on the world stage, right?She went from remixes that felt like a true collaboration amongst peers with Pink Panthers and boys a liar to. Getting to work with greats like Nikki or, Taylor Swift, where it feels like now they're saying, Hey, we like this girl. We're embracing her. and we wanna take her to the next step in the industry.So with each time she ships, it feels like it just keeps getting bigger and bigger.[00:07:54] Dan Runcie: Let's talk a bit about Taylor Swift, because you mentioned that there. This performance got a lot of buzz because Taylor Swift really hasn't brought many people out on the tour that she has. This tour may go down as one of the highest grossing tours that we've seen, and she's coming out and saying that I spice is the future, and we're seeing everyone from, whether it's her record labels and folks that she worked with more.Granted, we expect them to, that's their job to promote the folks that they have there, but from a live performance perspective, it wasn't always like this because she did get some critical comments from more recent performances that she did up to this point, and we've seen those types of things derail artists.Yeah. And be challenging to them. Can you talk a bit about that? [00:08:39] Denisha Kuhlor: Yeah, so I think, you know, Taylor Swift, bringing out and embracing, ice Spice was really interesting. ice Spice definitely has this dynamic of, you know, the people's champ and as she continues to, as she continues to grow people, people rooting for her.And so just from like, What that moment meant, I think for people to see someone who hadn't had any music, who barely had a Spotify profile probably two years ago or three years ago. to be an on a stage in a filled out arena nonetheless, was awesome. But I also think it's very much a testament to her ability and kind of the consumer's ability to, be forgetful.And when I say that, she obviously looked a lot more comfortable on stage, but the rolling loud performance, I think brought a lot of critique, right? it was just the novice fan on platforms like Shade Room or Instagram, talking about her performance. to folks in the industry talking more about the need for, you know, artist development and, a and r I feel like a lot of people could have come out of that moment very differently.or in some ways been so effect, offended that. It hurt their career but in even, you know, reading Ice Space's, last interview with Billboard, she talks a lot about her desire to exercise has solely been fueled by her wanting to improve her breath work on stage. and so you see a real commitment.I even noticed it seeing the clips from her wireless performance, just looking more comfortable on stage thinking through her set list. I think you see a real commitment. Two on, on her part. two, want to improve her craft and become a better performer. [00:10:17] Dan Runcie: So you mentioned a few things that definitely contributed to her rise. She definitely has the investment. The team behind her at Capital and others wanna see this happen. The thing is though, record labels are always making investments in everyone. They always try to put money behind new talent, and it made me think what is unique about her.Some people feel like there is a visual aspect to this. Not even in just the aspect of her being attractive, but having the distinct look, right? That like cinnamon afro, you know, it this like very striking from a visual perspective or just like, well who is that? Because that doesn't look like someone that we've seen before. Not necessarily in this overt stunt way. Yeah. But just someone that's being themselves and doing their thing. In a similar dynamic to the way that when Billy Eilish had first came out, she wasn't dressing the same way that Pop Stars did. And she was, had this whole vibe, and it was around this time that people were trying to understand Gen Z as this broad consumer, and then he or she comes very antithetical to what people have.And I think that look at that vibe attributed it to that way. So I think that's one factor that works in her favor. So you have that. You have the fact that New York has always had this pulse on whoever the next person up is and what they tell you about, whether it's what we saw with Cardi B. Now when she blew up, what you know, six, seven years ago, whether you saw it with pop smoke a couple years after.So New York has always had its finger on the pulse from that perspective. So I think that's part of it too. I also think though, that there's this aspect of. Dominating conversation in social media and with that type of discourse, but without just becoming someone who lives in social media, if that makes sense.The analogy I often think about is, Ben Affleck. This is a, bit of unique comparison, but I have to think about how Ben Affleck would talk about back when him and J Lo were going through their breakup when they were together in the two thousands, he was saying, you know, I could sell all of the US weekly magazines in the world.Yeah. But, I can't sell a movie ticket. Yeah. That is the thing that's tough for me to be able to sell. And I think that sometimes artists can struggle with that too, where their names can always be trending and they can always be the trending topic on Twitter, or they could always be the topic of discussion on Shade Room or whatever the aggregator site is, but they don't necessarily drive that into streams. They don't drive that into hard ticket sales. And that's the stuff that true fan base development comes. And a lot of that stuff does take years that it's a natural funnel, right? Your social media and your followers should always be larger and then leading there, but it has to lead somewhere.But Ice Spice, at least from where she is, from a monthly stream perspective and how that stayed consistent. People clearly are listening and tuning into the music and then additionally, the biggest artist in the world is bringing her out on stage to do that. And those are some of the things we saw with Post Malone early in his career and how he would go out on stage with different people, even people that were of different genres and trying to see what that playbook looked like.So yeah, that's the piece of it that I think is different from her relative to even. Other artists we've seen come out, other female artists we've seen come out. Other black female artists in hiphop that we've seen come out, that I think is a bit unique about why I think she's been distinct in this way.[00:13:52] Denisha Kuhlor: I agree. I agree. I think she's. Immerse herself in culture in a way that's so authentic to her. and as a result, she's able to show up as the digitally native person that, that she is, Ice Spice and how she interacts even on social media when you look, is a lot less like an influencer.Which is what I would say, Cardi B kind of had when she was coming up, and maybe some other stars that really got fame. And while they definitely have mastered authenticity and they do it well, Ice Spice in some ways is just her, like, I feel like she's almost, And she's almost like, like that girl in school that's relatable, but you feel like, oh, I can't pull that off.So when it comes to the things that she's doing, it feels relatable enough. but it doesn't also encourage you to get out there and do it herself. And I think it's a, difference maybe nuance to the authenticity that we've, that we've seen in the past. which people can really appreciate.I would probably even argue now that people are better, consumers are more savvy when it comes to what feels like manufactured authenticity, right? Whether it's a Get Ready with Me video, but you're selling all these makeup products as a result or a day in my life, but you're really promoting the new product to target. Like consumers have become a lot more savvy. And as a result, they praise her for doing what they want, which is just that genuine authenticity when it comes to Princess Diana. And she mentioned this in the Billboard, article or the interview that she did, her cover story.She thought it was so weird that people were calling her that name and she didn't get it. but she felt like all she could do was embrace it, right? and embrace that title. and I think that's just another great example of how. You watch her into real time, like develop the ebbs and flows of coming this fame while still recognizing there's so much that she doesn't know.And I feel like people really appreciate that. Whereas unfortunately, and maybe this is just a. A privilege that comes to the new artist. Drake talks about this in his rap radar interview where he says There's a period as an artist much to what you were, referring to with the Post Malone, you know, example in terms of being prod out, like there's a period as a new artist for. Around maybe, probably six to 18 months where everyone is just discovering you and the, process of discovering you, right? A person getting their first iPhone or this process of discovery and experiencing this new thing for the first time feels really great.and I think she's found a way to really revel in it and capitalize in it, capitalize on it in a way that seems to have longevity, versus other artists. [00:16:39] Dan Runcie: I wanna talk about that first piece you mentioned about the relatability. You said something along the lines of she makes it so you may not wanna necessarily replicate what she's doing, but there's something in it that seems attainable and relatable.In a way. Do you think that that's rare when it comes to artists? Like is there anyone that comes to mind that, let's say is a popular artist that you don't think that necessarily applies to? [00:17:05] Denisha Kuhlor: Hmm. You know, I guess I can give the best examples as watching these artists sometimes what feels like making leaps and bounds to continue to remain relatable.obviously you look at like a Drake, and I think he does that really well, right? He goes to these places because you know, as much as it's helping, the artists. It's also giving him that currency of relatability. I mean, we have the piece on, Cho with Cardi B. she's about to do a song with Lato, and everyone's talking about now the conversation is how much Cardi B like mints a track and the co-sign she gives to a track, but it also keeps her relatable, and pushes her brand in a very specific, in a very specific way.and so I almost feel like, relatability is becoming a bit played, if that makes sense. people and labels are forcing it, [00:18:00] Dan Runcie: Yeah. Like, would you say that Nicki Minaj is relatable in this way? [00:18:03] Denisha Kuhlor: Oh, interesting. No, no, I wouldn't. I think that once an artist hits a certain amount of success that they inherently become unrelatable.As much as they tried [00:18:12] Dan Runcie: Was like, was beat me up, Scotty Era, Nicki Minaj, relatable?. [00:18:17] Denisha Kuhlor: Very much so. I think because and it sounds a little crazy, but I think the only part in that distinction at that time of the artist is fans are just supporting them, but it still somewhat feels like a peer-to-peer relationship, or there's less of a wall up, right? Their support, their appreciation feels more like a, bilateral conversation. Whereas once an artist hits a certain point you're getting none of that. and that's where I think it comes from.[00:18:45] Dan Runcie: It's interesting I asked about Nicki Minaj because I think that part of the relatability thing with Ice Spice is it reminds me of, it reminds me of Steph Curry in a way where someone like him can seem. He has other worldly talent, in my opinion but I do think that because of his size, because of his stature, he isn't this six foot nine LeBron figure that does things where it's like, I could never do that.Yeah. Right. But there's this thought of like, okay, well if I do my 10,000 shots just like Steph did or spent my 10,000 hours in the gym, yeah. I could get there. Yeah. And I feel like Ice Spice, at least from a flow in a Italian, in an image perspective. Yeah, there's a bit of that. Oh, she's your friend from high school or she was someone that was like part of that crew from that perspective.And you know, she has a unique flow and there's a aspect of it. But I asked the Nikki question because I was wondering, you have Nikki doing a verse like Monster, which was one of her big breakouts there. This was 2010 on Kanye's song. Does a verse like that almost make her unrelatable in a way where it's this talent is then shown to be like, oh wow, like can I do that? And it almost puts you into this Revere era, which is still a valuable place for an artist to be. But I wonder if that's a very different way with how someone like Ice Spice is looked at. [00:20:03] Denisha Kuhlor: Yeah. I think in the point you made about like, Voice and flow, right? One of the most, memorable things about, Ice Spice's the cadence in which she raps.It literally feels like you're kind of around your friend who's like rapping to a beat and, knows they can rap. But is not overdoing it. whereas with an artist like a Nicki Minaj, there's definitely a level of animation, that can approach the music, right. And I think that's a great thing, right?It's helped build a fan base, it adds a different level of maybe production to her and how she performs and kind of everything associated with her artistry. But it makes it very different from a relatability standpoint because anyone can feel like they can kind of maybe like kick a verse like Ice Spice. I don't know how many people are attempting to, go up against what she did. On what? Nick Minaj on Monster. [00:20:56] Dan Runcie: Right. And I think that's part of the distinction there and I think this spans across a few heel, but that's one thing that can work in her, can work in her favor, especially as coming up now is very different than Nikki coming up in the blog era.It's just, yeah, a different dynamic of how artists come up and how you get, how you break through. And one of the things that I think is a bit more unique now is the importance of cultivating fan bases early and having that dynamic where, you know, Nikki could talk about, you know, charging 50K for a versatile album out in her days of, I think in a lot of ways that reflected where things were just from, especially that era coming up.Like with the mixtapes, I spice granted she could probably command more just given, you know, inflation and all the other things related to music. I do think that her cultivating a fan base is something that likely came earlier though, because I think it probably took a couple of years for the Barbs to really materialize and become how they were, you know, well after Nikki's first album.But the Munchkins or the Spice cabinet, as some people call them, I Spice Spice fan base is already here and is reflective of how artists are thinking about cultivating and growing things now, because you need to do this stuff earlier. We have the tools available in a way that weren't necessarily available to someone like Nicki or someone like Drake or J. Cole in the late two thousands when all of them were coming up in that wave.Is there anything you've noticed from her from that perspective that stands out that is unique? Yeah, that is something that [00:22:31] Denisha Kuhlor: You know what's interesting or what feels interesting? I feel like the fan base, or the audience still feels like it's very much defined or it's being defined. And the reason I say that is because there does also seem to be a trend of drop off when it comes to artists who have fan bases around, or largely off being the people's champ. Only because the bigger they get, it feels like there's less of a need to root for them because they're gonna be okay, right? They've hit a certain inflection point in which they will be.Okay. I think What is interesting about, Ice Spice is they feel like everyone's learning in real time, and they feel like they get to be a part of it. So in some ways, I do think that her fan base is interesting because it's like they're co-creating a bit, in a way that hasn't that other artists, maybe they've wanted to, but like the true actual product and creation to a product process hasn't been as interactive as, hasn't been as interactive as before.There's no, wall the way with other artists. It's like, oh, okay, I can, you know, the artist is doing this and that. There's really no wall, it feels like the conversations or the quote tweets that she's having on Twitter really feel like conversations amongst friends from how they crack jokes to the colloquialisms that are there.And I think the way she chooses to use her extra resources are done in a way that only continues to build a fan base. And like when you think about, her record with, Pink Panthers, they could have shot that video anywhere. They chose to do it on top of a building in the Bronx. And so, I look at it and I can only see more and more how those fans that maybe came because they were rooting for her as the people's champ, feel like they can stay because the relatability hasn't disappeared.[00:24:27] Dan Runcie: It's making me think of a few things I think. I think the co-creating thing, especially with how she interacts with fans on social media, there is a aspect of that is her feedback loop. That's how she's getting a vibe for what works and what doesn't, and in many ways they can be so, protective isn't the right word, but they can be so clear about their emotions and they don't hold anything back and they're gonna say things that even people in Ice Spice's circle probably wouldn't feel comfortable to say, but you can see all of that.Exactly. Some of that is, but once you're able to weed out the extremes, both from the haters and the people that are, you know, so unapologetic, they're blind to any type of, you know, constructive criticism that could support her career. There's good value that I think comes from that. The piece I want to talk about is the team that she has around her, because I read that same billboard article you wrote, and there are multiple entities that she's working with that have called her.A global superstar and thinks that she is the next one that is on that way, whether it's capital records or 10 K projects or, her manager or even some of the others. What is the word? What does global superstar mean to you? [00:25:37] Denisha Kuhlor: Yeah, I mean, I think that's definitely an interesting, interesting term. as someone who thinks about just how global the music industry has become, I think of global superstars as, The examples I would give are probably like a Bad Bunny or a Burna Boy.in some ways, they're really able to command or pull tickets in, in any market. I mean, I got the opportunity to see Burna Boy in Paris recently, and I was like shocked, but not surprised in the sense that. Like he can do hard tickets anywhere. Bad Bunny seems to have that same effect.Now, I do think that, and something I've just learned over time is it's a tricky designation because. The world knows a lot about the United States. the world knows a lot about New York when you think about how many shows or, you know, how many things are covered about New York, the world knows. So it's easy to feel like you have an understanding or an affinity to music about something that you know a lot about now, does it necessarily resonate the same way? I think of like the little baby in his documentary saying once he started traveling, he realized there were hoods all around the world. but I think that. there's obviously, definitely the potential to be, but I don't know if I could necessarily, say that just yet, because right now, to me, global Superstar feels defined a lot by touring.[00:27:07] Dan Runcie: I do think that is a threshold there, that's something I look at and I know it's something that's fluid and I think I have a higher bar than a lot of people, at least from a peer numbers perspective. Granted, these things can fluctuate, but I wanna see someone that can at least headline an arena tour, at least.Either on a nationwide perspective, at least in the US or can span beyond that. I wanna see someone that can at least sell 250K units. Yeah. At least in the US in their first week if they are a US, if they are, you know, side to a US-based record label. I think it can change elsewhere, but I wanna be able to see that. I also wanna be able to see some type of,I also wanna be able to see some type of reach that spans beyond just those metrics as well. If you are able to ask someone that is outside of the circles of paying attention to this stuff, can they name you a few unique things or something identifiable like, oh, that's so-and-so with this. It doesn't need to be extreme as, does your mom know who so-and-so is?But I wanna be able to at least yeah. See that and at least things from. Being able to create moments. Yeah. Of there's something that you do that does create moments there. The challenge that I think that definition and those terms can have, I know it could be a bit rigid, and even if I'm using those thresholds as well, there's maybe less than.Maybe around 20 or so people in all of pop music, in popular music, not just like Pop is in genre, but like all of popular contemporary music right now, they're probably fitting in. Yeah, that category of what I just said in less than 10 in hip hop. If we're saying overall, because I do think these six Fletcher, you can come and go there, but I do think that.That sometimes gets a bit missings because we do throw these terms around liberally. The thing is though, if you're a record label, you're in the business of trying to admit these people. Yeah. And for many of the reports that we've seen, it's becoming harder and harder. Yeah. To do that especially for a western-based English speaking artist.Exactly. The market saturated, the names you just mentioned, it's no surprise that two of the more recent superstars that we've had at that level, Burna Boy and bad Bunny, are not primarily English speaking artists from the music that they put out and they emerge from different parts of the world that are not the United States or you know, the UK and Western Europe, right?Yeah. Like those things are not coincidences. All those things fall in line. So it's one of these things where it makes sense if you're going to put the machine behind someone. Yeah, it does make sense to put it behind someone like Ice Spice because that's what you have. You wanna be able to put things out there.And this is an industry driven by media and PR, so. Anything, even like that Ice Spice article that we saw on Billboard, very intentional just given the relationship that the major publications in music have with their major record labels themselves. So once you think about those things a bit deeply, It's great that someone like Ice Spice is getting that push to have everything behind her as well.You just wanna make sure that we're not necessarily putting a carpet for the horse, or even putting expectations that may seem a bit too strong on someone that. We've even seen in the past couple months continuing to develop their career in a natural way. Someone that's 23 years old, she did one festival performance, got some mixed reviews from that, and then now she's on stage with the biggest arts in the world, and that's gonna continue to develop.Like these things take time, but I just don't know if this era has the patience to be able to. Wait that out and see how these exist. [00:30:46] Denisha Kuhlor: I completely agree. And I also think, you know, like you said, the market is saturated and consumers have more access to music that maybe matches their local appetite, right? We've seen the rise of, drill music, obviously, you know, starting from Chicago to doing what it's done in New York to UK drill right. To Parisian or even, you know, French drill, right? So I think it, it makes it difficult because, as she continues to excel, right? There are people or artists that can also, hit the market and use certain elements of the framework, to reach maybe a small but core audience in a market, that she's not fully built, dominance yet. I mean, it's been a trend in, tech, whether it's replicating Airbnb for other markets or other companies. And so I think that it's definitely a hard feat right now because, People are very unapologetic before, and rap, right? Felt like there could only be one at a time, or this concept of first ladies, in rap groups.Yeah. Especially for women. Exactly. And now you don't even, I mean, female rappers really, frankly, an outdated term. and, very much so. So you just think, oh, there's, you know, go's doing her thing. Lato, Cardi e everyone, the industry is thriving, but as a result, maybe the dominance of one has definitely decreased,[00:32:06] Dan Runcie: And I think that fragmentation, the fact that there can be more than one, the fact that we see multiple people being able to succeed is good. It also makes me think of some of the critiques and some of the responses that we've seen from some of the releases, and I feel like we've seen this pattern. I've noticed it, I think we've talked about this as well, this pattern that frankly is rooted in sexism, where every couple of months there is a woman, there's a woman in hip hop that releases an album or a mixtape, or they announce a tour, something that has some, they do something that is further down their funnel in terms of either hard tickets or trying to get some hard album sales to put things out.And the numbers may not necessarily be as high as people would think. Yeah. And this is a artist that would have at this point, Tens of millions of followers on all the social channels combined. They're often in the discussion. They have plenty of co-signs. They're assigned to some of the strongest record labels in the game, but then there's always someone that says, oh, well, how did so-and-so not even be able to sell 20,000 units in a week?How does so-and-so not even be able to sell out this tour? Or they can't do this? It's frustrating in a lot of ways. But it's always women that we see this discourse happen with. It makes me think of a few things. I think there's a bit of a disconnect in terms of understanding what numbers mean. Yeah. And what they don't.But there's also people just conflating followers with fans and not necessarily understanding that dynamic and how that dynamic is often different for women because of how the industry wants to portray certain people, what they're selling and what platforms sell and What you put on a platform can be very different for an artist just because that artist is a man and those things, I think it's frustrating to see, and I don't want that to happen too, Ice Spice, but we've seen it happen to so many of the names that you mentioned as well earlier.Yeah. Is that just the way, is that just the dynamic? How do we Yeah. Break out? I, I think, and not that you have the answers too, but this is something I want. [00:34:13] Denisha Kuhlor: Very true. Very true. I think, you know, it's interesting, even in those names that I've mentioned, I think the only one, and she's embraced this dynamic really well, that's kind of been like, you know, I don't really know how I got here.I don't feel like I'm supposed to be here. It's been like a gorilla and she's been, you know, very vocal about kind of maybe talking about some of the dynamics or pressures in the industry. I think it's, obviously a multifaceted approach, but what I will say is that, media and music sometimes can feel so combined.And when you look at what the media wants to push out and how they, portray certain stories and what they choose to cover, right? When it comes to everything from interviews to, even cover stories of, of these artists, I think unfortunately, it puts some of these women or some of these artists in a tough position based off what they wanna focus on or how they're portrayed.This sounds a little crazy, but I think, you know, the person who could probably, if they ever wanted a side project to maybe change some of that narrative is actually a Kris Jenner. I mean, we've seen what she's done with her daughters, but I think she's been very brilliant. I mean, I think to my knowledge, two of her daughters, you know, have done the Forbes cover, but I think she's been very thoughtful around shifting a specific type of narrative.Whereas the attention could have been garnered from, you know, beauty and, societal expectations around beauty. Very much shifting that into the conversion of things that lead to real dollars, whether it's Kylie with her Lip Kits or Kim now with Skims who used Ice Spice, um, in an effort for relatability.So, I unfortunately think that so early when an artist starts to blow, it's the team around you is calling a lot of the shots and getting things done. And it's hard to realize maybe until you see it for years, until years later, maybe how some of the small nuances in how you were portrayed or some of the opportunities you took, impacted your ability to, be taken seriously as a, decades long artist.[00:36:23] Dan Runcie: Yeah. I think part of the dynamic too, and this especially applies with women in hip hop, is that the teams around them and them themselves, some of their social posts or some of the things that they put out that they're selling sex. Yeah. They're doing the glam shots. Yeah. They're being out there.which is good. They should feel empowered. They have a platform and so many people then feel empowered just seeing them be bold that themselves. The thing is though, because based on these platforms, the way they work and the algorithms, people are gonna follow you some or a portion of people are gonna follow you just because of that.They are attracted, they're entertained. Yeah. And they wanna see that. And there's nothing wrong with that. Yeah. But that's going to attract a certain number of followers in a way that Kendrick Lamar or J. Cole, who barely tweeted and have never been positioned as male sex symbols in that way, yeah. Aren't going to attract that.So when you look at the, if there's a way to segment. Looking at Instagram, okay. Who follows you and why do they follow you? It's very different. Yeah. And that's why it's no surprise that the most followed art, the most followed hip hop artist on Instagram is Nicki Minaj, and it isn't even close. Yeah. And a lot of it is because of that and.This is also someone in Nicki Minaj. If you then took that same look and you look at, okay, who are the artists that are selling the most, whether it's streams or it's albums, it's different. So I think sometimes people forget that, that's not necessarily a bad thing. I'm glad you brought up the Kris Jenner piece of this, because one of the things that she obviously has done well is finding, okay, based on the audience that we've cultivated, Where is that product market fit based on who they're reaching on Instagram, based on who they're reaching from this?Exactly. And I think sometimes that's part of the challenge with a woman artist and specifically a woman artist in hip hop. If some of the posts may lean a bit more towards that, but it's one of those things where it shouldn't be that way because you should be able to post, you know, a sexy image and it isn't doing that.But the concept that you put out, lines up with word people see, so there's always a bit of that challenge. There's always a bit of that dynamic there. And I see Ice Spice as well, someone that is attractive, someone that does have a lot of followers cuz people are bought into her look and. I don't want that to be the same necessarily.[00:38:35] Denisha Kuhlor: You look at an artist like No name, who I love. I'm a huge no name fan. And she, you know, wraps with a soft spoken voice as well. and you know, I would argue no name fans wanna talk to her about books cuz she has a book club and, they, you know, so I think maybe the. The way you can also combat that is having like true pillars maybe of your personality or that you include as part of the narrative that aren't just visual.Because if you teach people to be visual creatures or approach you visually, that is what they will see. That is what they will, that is what they will default to. And from an artist awareness perspective, you're getting the, visual part of artist awareness. But when it comes to the deeper part of, you know, the artist's story and what you represent, you're not capturing that as well.And that's the difference between maybe a casual fan, a listener's turn casual fan cuz they follow you and they like you. They like your vibe to a truly engaged and deep-rooted fan. [00:39:34] Dan Runcie: This is something that I think a Cardi B also is able to do well, just I think back to during the 2020 presidential election and she's sitting down with Bernie Sanders.Yeah. There was nothing related to music or related to, you know, selling sex or anything like that. She's been talking about her interest in that, or whether it's her interest in FDR or other things. There was something else there that I think had people brought in. I think which I think has always helped with her in that perspective.Yeah. Another person I think I feel a bit bad for in this regard was Megan Stallion because I look at the rise and the narrative and the things that she was talking about pre-the Tory Lanez shooting. And so much of it, you heard so much more then about, you know, her own goals, graduating college Yeah.And actually wanted to start the healthcare facilities. Yeah. And the hotties and, you know, driving the boat. all of the stuff that she was able to pull off there. And I think since then, not only was she much more selective about the media things that she did, yeah. Almost every media appearance that she's had, to some extent is addressing Yes.Something related to the Tory Lanez' shooting. Yeah. And of course it's a very traumatic thing, but you just think about how impactful that was. Yeah. When everything was going in the direction that it was Yeah, yeah. For her career. So I look at that in just another case where granted, she's still doing quite well for herself from a career perspective, but things definitely changed after that. [00:41:01] Denisha Kuhlor: Yeah, Cardi B is a great one. and even, even me, I would say somewhere probably between casual fan or in that range, I can very much remember all the things Cardi B does, whether it's her love of civics and politics to, there was a tweet and she was talking about the rise of grocery prices and someone was like, why are you talking about this?And she was like, I very much care about, you know, the day-to-day life of the average American because. I've done well, but I support families, I support my family, all of that. And then I thought it was brilliance. She either did, I don't wanna get it wrong. but did either eve near essence of black publication, and the family shoot, right? With Offset having a blended family, the challenges and, that they've went through there. And I think that, yeah, she's so brilliantly done that By just being herself. It does feel like the industry has like a one track or fixed mind, sometimes in that once this is what you are known for.It feels hard to break away from that. And what's interesting is I do think in, Meg's case that the way she's navigating it now, whether it's just taking some time off, saying that she'll be back when she's ready, Gives her the space to maybe come back out with a bit of a reinvention.and so I'm excited to see what that would look like. And in the way Beyonce came back out as Sasha Fierce, like what does it look like to, for hope for her to hopefully have that opportunity to reinvent herself back into whatever artist she wants to be. [00:42:31] Dan Runcie: And I think that's the key thing. There is so much that they still have going. All these artists are still young. I mean most of them are still under 30. Yeah. I actually forget how old Cardi B is, but I think she still is. There's still plenty of runway. There's still plenty of this. Cardi B still hasn't released another album since the debut album that she had. Meg, her others still haven't gone on tour, even Nikki hasn't gone on tour in a while. Yeah, and we haven't seen a true album come out from her since Queen, which was almost five years ago at this point. And we're still waiting for Ice Spices debut album. So excited to see where it comes. I think there's a lot of opportunity.I think we talked about some of the challenges that are there and some of the headwinds, but before we close things out, any other thoughts on Ice Spice? [00:43:14] Denisha Kuhlor: Lastly, and to the point you've made. I think maybe some of it comes down to, intentions or even our desires. I think COVID, it really continued to be a hard look at the daily lives we live and what work-life balance looks like.And as so many of us go through that as individuals and human beings, artists are going through that, artists are going through that as well. And Ice Spice this case, I think with some of the business and partner decisions she's made, signing a capital, having the distribution network that comes with, World Star and World Star's Media Network, it gives her the privilege to release a song and know that distribution is already built in and not maybe have to do those 50 radio stops. It gives her that sort of privilege and I think we're going to see a world with artists. And Cardi is interesting to that point too, where they might never tour. They can sustain a lifestyle that they want to live doing just enough. [00:44:14] Dan Runcie: Cardi is on that private tour gig. She's on that Lionel Richie ship. [00:44:17] Denisha Kuhlor: Exactly, doing just enough. And I think that's really attractive. And so, you know, when you think about the attitudes that Gen Z brings towards the workplace. It's really interesting to see how, she will, you know, releasing a six song, six songs, right? For an initial body of an initial body of work before we used to 10 to 12.[00:44:39] Dan Runcie: A multimillionaire giggle. [00:44:41] Denisha Kuhlor: Exactly. Yeah. So it'll be interesting to see kind of what maybe what does the new era of a global superstar look like? Maybe it looks like a lot less tour dates and a lot less music, and a lot more brand partnerships and other streams of income. And, as a result, we'll get the artists, but in a way that makes it feel worth their while for a long time. [00:45:06] Dan Runcie: Agreed. And I think that's a good point to end on. So Ice Spice and team. If you're listening, we wish you all the best of luck with this and we'll be following, we'll be following along. Denisha pleasure as always.[00:45:17] Denisha Kuhlor: Thank you so much for having me. [00:45:18] Dan Runcie Audio Outro: If you enjoyed this podcast, go ahead and share it with a friend. Copy the link, text it to a friend. Post it in your group chat. Post it in your Slack groups. Wherever you and your people talk, spread the word. That's how travel continues to grow and continues to reach the right people. While you're at it, if you use Apple Podcast, Go ahead. Rate the podcast, give it a high rating, and leave a review. Tell people why you like the podcast. That helps more people discover the show. Thank you in advance. Talk to you next week.
A healed past unleashes a hope-filled future. Healing is a journey. Why should we heal? What keeps us from taking the necessary steps toward healing? In this episode, we want to invite you to join the journey of healing from the pain of your past through a vibrant life with Christ. Join the journey with us! Here are two FREE Ebooks just for you! 1. Shame Off You: 10 steps to shattering shame in your life. You can grab that HERE. 2. CLICK HERE to receive a FREE E-book to help you combat those lies and hear the truth of what God's heart has to say to you. Did you know we have a jewelry line that speaks to your identity in Jesus? CLICK HERE to shop inspiring jewelry that encourages you to live out of the truth of who you are in Jesus. Every purchase helps support our mission to provide healing and hope to women worldwide. For more encouragement, check out some of our offerings HERE If this podcast encourages you, would you partner with us to spread the message of hope and healing? You can DONATE HERE. Living the Reclaimed Life is a Reclaimed Story, Inc. podcast, An Arizona non-profit corporation. If you would like to connect with a safe group of women doing real-life together, join our private Facebook page, “Living the Reclaimed Life” Join us! Ch...
Host Jeff Crank sits down with Denisha Allen to talk about how she went from having very negative experiences with public schools to using the Florida Tax Credit Scholarship Program to help her excel in school in just nine weeks. #americanpotential Check out American Potential here: https://americanpotential.com
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If you had a billion-dollar fund to buy the full rights, masters, and publishing of ANY music artists — who are you acquiring to maximize shareholder value? This question was top of mind for real-life portfolio managers the past three years as music catalog sales boomed. Now my guest on the episode, Denisha Kuhlor, and I are asking ourselves the same hypothetical question.In this episode, we're doing a mock music rights draft. Akin to the NFL Draft, each of us getting seven picks. Any artists' catalog, living or dead, is on the table for us to acquire. Our goal is to score the biggest ROI for investors on a 10-year timeline from purely catalog revenue — streaming, syncs, and partnerships, among other sources. Touring or merchandise revenue isn't factored in, and neither are future catalog releases, only what's already been released. As you'll see on this episode, Denisha and I took very different approaches to our portfolios. One was more “risk on”, while the other was filled with more “blue chips.” Here's what to expect:[0:01] Draft parameters [4:51] First-round picks[9:42] Second-round picks[14:21] Third-round picks[18:49] Fourth-round picks[21:55] Fifth-round picks[26:04] Sixth-round picks[29:20] Seventh-round picks[37:33] Honorable mentions [52:21] Up-and-coming artistsListen: Apple Podcasts | Spotify | SoundCloud | Stitcher | Overcast | Amazon | Google Podcasts | Pocket Casts | RSSHost: Dan Runcie, @RuncieDan, trapital.coGuests: Denisha Kuhlor, @denishakuhlorToday's episode was brought to you by feature.fm. Grow your fanbase and music career with their marketing suite. Get 50% off your first three months by using code: TRAPITAL50Enjoy this podcast? Rate and review the podcast here! ratethispodcast.com/trapitalTrapital is home for the business of music, media and culture. Learn more by reading Trapital's free memo.TRANSCRIPTDenisha Kuhlor: We've talked about Burna Boy on the podcast before, so don't necessarily have to go over all of his stats, but I think that in one thing I'm finding with people discovering, music from the continent. Is that when they like the artist or there's things they like about the artist or the genre, they go back and listen, to the past catalog.And so I feel like there's still a lot of untouched ground in terms of people discovering his music and listening to his whole catalog and given how timeless in a lot of ways some of his music feels, I think that we'll have new fans discovering him over and over for a long time and getting to also benefit from the upside of that catalog is great.I'll also say, he's pretty feature light as well. He's increased the amount of features that he's had in some of his more recent albums, but even like him, some of his breakout singles, whether Ye or Last Last, were Independence, or songs that he did independently and didn't have people featuring.So I think in terms of some of the big records, there's solo records, which is exciting and that his catalog has a lot of value for people to discover and wanna to.Dan Runcie Intro: Hey, welcome to the Trapital Podcast. I'm your host and the founder of Trapital, Dan Runcie. This podcast is your place to gain insights from executives in music, media, entertainment, and more who are taking hip hop culture to the next level. Dan Runcie: Today's episode is one I am really excited for. This is a music rights draft. We are going to be breaking down the artists that we would most wanna have their music rights for. So today's guest friend of the podcast, Denisha Kuhlor, founder of Stan, her and I are both managers of billion dollar funds and we can acquire the full rights, Masters and publishing to any artist, living or dead.And our job is to maximize value for our investors for the next 10 years. We each get to pick 10 artists and their full rights of music, and we draft them one by one. Denisha, are you ready? How are you feeling?Denisha Kuhlor: I am, I'm super excited for this. like keep racking my head, I think till the last minute with each pick. but yeah, I'm ready to get Dan Runcie: started.Right. It's funny because we're chatting about this yesterday and I almost wonder like if our chat yesterday like shifts anything, it's like, oh, okay. That's how you're thinking about this. Okay. That's how I'm thinking about this.Denisha Kuhlor: Exactly, in a funny way, I have some more compassion for venture investors because I can see how societal shift or even group think can shift your perspective even if just a bit. Dan Runcie: Yeah, it's fascinating, and I mean with this, we did try to keep the parameters of it a bit clear because obviously in the real music rights acquisition world, there are many different strategies about how these firms are buying and acquiring these rights. Some of them are sitting and holding on them, but we are putting ourselves in a different bucket.We are assuming that we have the means to maximize this catalogs and this artist's value through multimedia, through sync, through other partnerships, and just the revenue that it naturally generates as sound recordings themselves. And we assume that we're only acquiring what that artist has released up to that point.Of course, what that artist continues to do in the future may shift the perception of the value of what they've done, but we are only looking at what they've done up to this point. So we're saying that just to lay the groundwork, because someone may be like, oh, what about so-and-so and so-and-so may be an artist that blew up in the past five years.They may not have Steve as a catalog, but who knows? Maybe we'll both have a few of those picks.Denisha Kuhlor: Exactly. Super exciting Dan Runcie: All right, so we are gonna be so a few things to just keep in mind as well for listeners. So a few of the factors you both considered were expected longevity of the artist music themselves, which is a big piece of this. You're acquiring these rights, you're trying to get a sense for what is the music that people are still going to listen to, right?It's one thing if you dominate the charts, that you have a song that takes off, but there's a decay curve. So we're trying to find those artists that have the value, but have the much less steep decay curve as it goes down year over year. There's also a mix too. There's the stable picks, which a lot of the rights go after, which are attractive, but there's also some higher upside picks or some riskier bets.Where do those fit in? And then we're also taken into account the share of the song recordings that the artists actually have given that certain genres such as hip hop or r and b and pop music specifically, there's a lot more collaboration. There's a lot more hands being shared in that pot. So, how does that line up with another genre where that artist may have a higher percentage of those things?All those things get factored into how we pick this. So I'm ready to get started and I wanna give you the first pick so you can go and then I'll go after that.Denisha Kuhlor: Oh, thank you, so my first pick is Mariah Carey. for a few reasons. One, Mariah Carey has one of the most amazing songs in her collection, with Christmas, right? Like it's just being Christmas time, every Christmas, you know, you're going to get, a spike in revenue. Mariah Carey's also been very notable, about talking about that.She writes a lot of her own music, and I don't think how many people realize how much of a prolific songwriter that she is as well. And with the nature of R and B, much to what you talked about earlier with it being collaborative, Mariah Carey seems to be embraced by a lot of rappers for samples.So while I definitely think it will be pricey based off literally, all I want for Christmas, if anything, I think that it's. It's a bit of a safe, but also Sure. Fire and, and stable. expectation revenue. Dan Runcie: That was my number two pick. So we're definitely aligned there. It makes perfect sense because even if you, all I want for Christmas is a big piece of the pie, I wanna say 300 million streams per year on Spotify was the stat that I heard, and I forget the exact revenue number that it generates. I don't wanna quote it, but it's huge.Almost 20 number one singles that she's had. So the longevity's there, and as we know we're talking about this a little yesterday, but there's a reason that catalog isn't one that's getting acquired because, A, the people that own it, and I know she may own maybe some of the more recent stuff. I don't know if, Columbia still owns, you know, the stuff from the nineties, especially given the nature of her deal and stuff like that.But I mean, it's up there, it's definitely one of the most valuable ones. So good. Yeah. Good for you on that one. So I'll take my number one pick here and the number one pick. For this, for me, so much of it was thinking about how millennials and this group are the dominant users of streaming.Streaming makes up a bulk of the revenue for these streaming services. And who is the biggest artist for millennials overall? Just you look at the sheer numbers and everything like that, it has to be Taylor Swift. Miss 1989 herself, I will take those albums, especially these rerecorded ones, Taylor's version, because they'reDenisha Kuhlor: That's just what I was gonna ask.Dan Runcie: Yeah. I may not get Scooter bronze version, but I'll get Taylor's version and I'll keep that. I think that it's rare to find a star that has as much impact as she does that is as recent in this way, I mean, just the pure demand for this Eras tour. She could have done 10 x times the number of shows and been touring for the next five years in a in stadiums and still had plenty of demand left over.And of course, we're not counting touring revenue in this, but it just goes to show how big everything else is. The fact that midnights broke records, both in streaming and in hard sales, I think I saw 230 million dollars that album generated in its revenue. Of course. That her entire rights will likely be owned, you know, herself just given the Taylor's version of everything.Currently I'm licensed with Republican Universal Music Group. But if in a perfect world you could acquire that, I will take that. She's able to dominate in all of these multiple platforms and if we're really trying to say, okay, 10 years from now, each of her albums is still in the top 50 of the billboard, 200, just from like a rankings perspective.Well, not all of 'em, but a lot of them, and I think it's harder to come by. So yeah, I'll take T Swift.Denisha Kuhlor: Yeah, I think it's definitely a solid pick her music evokes so much nostalgia especially as her fans get older, that they'll be listening to it for life, right? Because it's not necessarily attached to a moment or even a recency of today, even though they can appreciate that.it's, yeah, it's music that's the soundtrack to their lives. So, it makes a ton of sense. And she's also another prolific songwriter, so I would assume, from an ownership perspective, it's quite attractive.Dan Runcie: Yeah. Not as attractive as Mariah though, because I feel like Taylor more recently, especially with the more pop albums, there was a lot of Max Martin production and a lot of other big name folks and you know, Kendrick Lamar, guest verses and stuff like that. And Mariah had some of that, but I still feel like she always had like her single, you know what I mean? It's like Yeah.fantasy was, they had a remix with ODB or they had a honey remix with the lock, but there was still the core Mariah version that was justDenisha Kuhlor: Yeah, that's a great point. The breakout has frequently remained just her. Yeah. Dan Runcie: so we'll see. But yeah, who's your second pick?Denisha Kuhlor: So my second pick, I thought a lot too about, like world music as we say, or just music that's global. much to your point as well around streaming. I kind of think that it's exciting to pick, an artist that can dominate globally that's, not necessarily a pop artist. And so for that, I went back and forth.Probably two of the biggest artists. but landed on Bad Bunny, Bad Bunny to me is one just an amazing and exciting artist. He also has a great amount of volume, but much to the point we just made about Mariah Carey's, Taylor Swifts, I think he's really optimized a lot of his catalog, for music that he makes and that music that he solely makes.Additionally, and I know we're not counting touring, but the sheer amount of numbers he's done touring, I think has not only earned him new fans, but earned him kind of the same type of fan appetite that Taylor Swift has in which the music will evoke a certain nostalgia, whether they saw him perform it on top of a gas station or when he was driving through the Bronx, that leads them to want to continue to listen to this music for the rest of their lives, which hopefully will be financially lucrative.Dan Runcie: He was on my list as well. You can't ignore just the huge, massive success of this last album, UN Varano Centi. We saw that album dominate week after week after week, and it, the songs are still on Spotify's Top 50 and they're still having traction there. And in an era where there's just so much more music, if you can get a song like that that comes out in 2022 that's still coming out or just an album, it's rare and I know we talk a lot about how monoculture itself is just harder to come by from a artist that is in the US or UK just because those markets are so much more saturated. But the closest we get to anyone reaching Beatlemania is someone like Bad Bunny. So that's a great.Denisha Kuhlor: Exactly, exactly. I also think a lot both, Drake's wrapped about Bad Bunny numbers and Kanye's reference Bad Bunny's, success. And so I feel like even if his peers in the industry are kind of in some ways either looking at him aspirationally or like he's one that could potentially, hit my success, is also a great indicator.Dan Runcie: All right, so the next pick I have here is, you mentioned him a second ago, the streaming king himself, 70 million streams. Drake, it's hard to think about the streaming era and not think about him. Just the massive hits that he's had and every time that he releases an album, it still creates this moment that few have the ability to be able to reach moving forward.I know Birdman will never give up those rights, and Young Money extensively will never give up those rights, but if I had the choice, I would take it. I think the knock against Drake potentially though I will acknowledge is that one. Just the high number of features and samples with all that, there's a high, there's a less likelihood that he may own all or just have a higher percentage of the revenue coming in for this stuff.But just the sheer volume of whether it's the mixtapes, the playlist, the little two packs that he puts out, the albums, especially some of the ones from like, especially the cash money albums, honestly, from, when was that? So I guess you had 2010, it was official first album, but you had so far gone oh nine and then everything up to Scorpion.Yeah, those are the biggest albums of the last decade. So I'll take DrakeDenisha Kuhlor: Yeah. Yeah. super solid pick. As someone who has seen Drake in concert 10 times, there's a few things recently. Yeah. 10 times. Yeah. So a few things that stuck out to me with Trigg specifically, The Serious Show. So the serious show was a lot of like deep cuts or songs that he hasn't recently performed on some of his tours. And you could just see that fans loved it, right?A lot of people wanted access to tickets and really loved the music. And then, lastly in part of, in going to these tours, there were so many times that I saw, that he would like go off of stage and to keep the crowd like engaged. They would do a whole set of his music that he wasn't going to perform, and the crowd literally went just as crazy as if he was on, if he was on stage so much to just like the emotional factor that his catalog has.I feel like Drake has provided the music of a generation. And so, regardless volume wise, they'll be continuing to listen for a long time.Dan Runcie: Who's your number two?Denisha Kuhlor: So next I'm going with Burna Boy. one, we've talked about Burna Boy on the podcast before, so don't necessarily have to go over all of his stats, but I think that in one thing I'm finding with people discovering, music from the continent. Is that when they like the artist or there's things they like about the artist or the genre, they go back and listen, to the past catalog.And so I feel like there's still a lot of untouched ground in terms of people discovering his music and listening to his whole catalog and given how timeless in a lot of ways some of his music feels, I think that we'll have new fans discovering him over and over for a long time and getting to also benefit from the upside of that catalog is great.I'll also say, he's pretty feature light as well. He's increased the amount of features that he's had in some of his more recent albums, but even like him, some of his breakout singles, whether Ye or Last Last, were Independence, or songs that he did independently and didn't have people featuring.So I think in terms of some of the big records, there's solo records, which is exciting and that his catalog has a lot of value for people to discover and wanna to. Dan Runcie: Yeah, he was on the list as well, and I think the attractive thing with him is similar to the bad Bunny perspective where almost more so because if you are one of the signature artists that is on this entire continent, well, I think for him, obviously more West Africa, but if you're one of the signature artists that's on this entire continent, you have the closer thing to that Beattlemania effect.And as more people there have access to streaming as more of that just grows and develops, you're going to get that curve too that just grows naturally with what's already there. And you can't undersell that. And I think given an artist like that too, there's probably huge sync opportunities as multimedia and entertainment starts to grow from that, from, from those parts of the worlds too.So there's a lot of value there. Yeah.Denisha Kuhlor: exactly. Who do you have Dan Runcie: pick, this is a pick with the mind and not necessarily with the heart, but I am a, in the role of a asset manager or not the role of a fan. And my pick here is Eminem and my pick for Eminem, and the reason I pick him is because his music is still some of the most streamed music across the board.And his Curtains Call album was the bestselling rap album in the UK in 2022. His greatest hits album from 2005 was the best selling rap album 17 years later. And I remember seeing that stat and I was just like, wow. And then you just think about the nature of his music. And even though he's someone that I feel, if you're someone that lives in the Twitter circles that you and I live in, Eminem is someone that I think has largely fallen out ofpopular discourse.And people do look at him a bit more, distinctly in a way that they did in 20 years ago. But if you don't live in those circles, which the majority of people don't, they still listen to his music and still revere him. And just on a sheer number perspective, there's probably more people that listen to hip hop that have an artist like Eminem and their top three and they're top two and not two.And you look at some of the numbers as well for songs like Till I Collapse and Lose Yourself, that just get played over and over for people working out and all of these things. Those songs have a timelessness to them. I mean, on stats, he was the bestselling like recorded artist of the two thousands. He was up there for the 2010s.He still tours massively, and even though a lot of his albums that probably generate the most revenue are songs that I'm no longer listening to, I can acknowledge that this has huge value. And as an asset manager, as a fund manager, I would do quite well with that, with his rights.Denisha Kuhlor: Yeah. No, I don't know if that's where I would have went, but after hearing your explanation, it makes a ton of sense. Eminem fans are, independent in the sense that they're fans regardless of whether he's the top of a pop culture, relevancy or not. yeah, I think, that's really, really interesting.And the Stan's side, he literally pioneered the word we all use today, so I think in some ways too, people forget just, how impactful culturally he's been. so yeah, that makes a Dan Runcie: Nice. All right. who's your.Denisha Kuhlor: So for my next one, I kind of wanted to go in a direction of some newer artists that are still proving themselves out of it, but I think have a lot of potential. but keeping in mind to what they've done so far, I wanna go with Lizzo. I. think of Lizzo, you know, a lot of us were actually introduced, to her in because of a sync, in one of the, in a movie on Netflix.I'm blanking on the name of the movie, but that sync actually introduced me, to her. I think that Lizzo's music is just like the perfect type of music for a movie trailer, in the sense of some of her upbeat, more like pop, pop records. It's like the perfect songs to usher in like a romcom.So from a sing perspective, I think it has a lot of potential. She's also known as, pretty talented on the songwriting side, so I think the ownership would be, I think the ownership would be attractive. and in her last tours, she's done pretty well while also there were smaller venues, the fan base and her having an engaged fan base is definitely there as well.Obviously and from an asset manager perspective, definitely wouldn't be looking to pick it up. But the numbers I've picked up, some of my earlier bets, but I think it would be a fun bet to have and see how it does in the future.Dan Runcie: It's funny because she's someone that I think she has a very high diehard fan to fan ratio, if that makes sense. And I say that because she's someone who. Does quite well. She sells out arenas and she does multiple shows in some cities, in arenas, in an era where it's very hard to get artists that are topping the charts with their streaming to sell out the same venues.The knock against her though is that she doesn't stream necessarily as well. Like she hasn't had an album that's like top the charts. I don't think she's had, you know, a 100K in the first week necessarily. But those fans do show up. so there's something to be said there. I think the other thing too, when you're mentioning the sync, I was thinking about, you know, that car, I think it's Carnival Cruise, that commercial, and it has that song that's like Hands to the Sky.Show me that your mind, like, I didn't even realize that was a Lizzo song until I just looked it up because it was stuck in my head and I'm like, oh, that's a Lizzo song from like 2016, like Pret Truth. So I think you're right with the sync piece of it. I mean, a song like Truth Hurts Itself, juice, literally anything from whether it's special or the album before this, I think that there is strong potential there.So I think Lizzo is definitely a good multimedia play. Assuming like we are in this role, you have the ability to maximize the asset.Denisha Kuhlor: Yeah, exactly, exactly. It definitely comes down to maximization of the asset on her part, and in a way. I don't see streaming continuing to go up. I think her engage fans like her, they listen to her, and they keep it at, and they keep it at that. So without kind of very targeted, like a targeted approach to maximizing her syncs, the asset becomes less attractive.Dan Runcie: So the next pick, and this is a bit strategic because I wanna take this artist before you take them, is SZA and. picking SZA because she obviously doesn't have a huge catalog. We're talking two studio albums really, that have came out. But if I could get those studio albums for a good price, I'm getting an album in control that is literally stayed on the charts for five years.People are listening, streaming and buying the hell out of that thing, and it hasn't really stopped. And this album is setting all these records and every time you see what the 10, 11 weeks that SSA's SOS has been at the top of the charts, that's in the territory with like Adele, Beyonce and all these other artists because first here's breaking records for female R and B artists then is just, you know, female artists.Now it's artists in general, like how many people are at those levels. So sure. I don't think I'm necessarily gonna have to pay Taylor Swift, Drake or Eminem numbers to get SZA rights, but this is a hits game, and if I can get two of her hits, certified hits albums, that could be worth more than 10 of someone else's mediocre ones.Denisha Kuhlor: I completely agree. SZA is it makes so much sense. It makes so much sense. I'd also say what's so exciting about CSA when you think about it is two studio albums and being able to maintain that relevancy and the sheer amount of time that those albums have lived, is so exciting and you can continue to maximize those two albums even for years to come.Because for everyone, it still feels very relevant.Dan Runcie: All right. Who's your, you've picked five, right? Okay, so last two picks. who's your sixth pick?Denisha Kuhlor: Yes. So I'm gonna keep the S theme here with SZA. and this one was somewhat a big streaming play. but Summer Walker, summer Walker was one that initially when I first made this list, didn't come to mind to be honest. But as I thought about it, and I will probably mention this more in some of my honorable mentions, but I was going for Usher, and I thought about the record that they had together and thought about a lot of the records that Summer Walker has broken. and shout out to the folks that love Renaissance, I think that people don't even realize or truly understand how big of an artist she's been, from a streaming perspective. she's had some really impressive numbers when she releases the album, she's done great numbers. and People continue to listen to her. I also think, you know, she's toyed around with retiring as well as not doing, as well as not doing tours, creating less opportunities for fans to be able to interact with her, which, fortunately or unfortunately leads them back to her music as that's one of the only sources of ways that they can interact with her.So, I don't know if I see as much sync potential with an artist like her as I would maybe a Lizzo, but I think she can continue to generate solid, solid streaming numbers, for years, foryears. Dan Runcie: a good pick. It's funny, she's someone that's not on my list, but when you mentioned her I was like, I can't believe I'd even think of the think of her. But you're absolutely right. She has, especially from a streaming perspective, she has numbers that rival some of the artists that we mentioned before when it comes to streaming and on average, streaming is making up 70 to 80% often of the revenue that comes in from these music rights.So, it makes sense to be able to have that. And I think that just given how much she's been able to speak to an audience that doesn't really have as many people speaking directly to them as well in this way of, okay, who is making music for black women, who is making like doing that? And I think when you think about it that way, that list does become slim.Especially when we're talking about artists at this level, obviously, you know, touring and some of the more personal things of just like being out there that isn't her style, that isn't her vibe or her personality necessarily. But we don't necessarily need that and I think that there's clearly value in over it, still over it.And, you know, the small features and things that she's done here and there since then. Denisha Kuhlor: Yeah. Dan Runcie: All right. So mine, I have two picks left. this is where it does get tough because, looking through some of these names and there's some ones that I like and, okay, so I am going to take Bruno Mars and I'm gonna take Mars because the fact that he has music that I think honestly can transcend in terms of the versatility of the music.Songs like 24K Magic or Uptown Funk, or.Denisha Kuhlor: Very intergenerational as well. Dan Runcie: Yeah. You hear, could hear it in the supermarket, you could hear it being out, like you could hear it in syncs or different types of things, even the more recent stuff with Silk Sonic and getting his chair of that with with Anderson .Paak there, I think there's a huge potential there.I can't speak as much to the hard numbers, but I do think that the multimedia opportunities are there. He's a pit maker and I think it would be valuable to have his stuff in there.Denisha Kuhlor: Yeah, so from kind of a multimedia or even multidisciplinary perspective, my next one is Pharrell.Pharrell's been a part of a lot of really big records, records that feel intergenerational. I would say, and I don't know the numbers of this. I would say his streaming probably isn't in the highest percentile, but it's also not in the lowest percentile.Like it's somewhere probably in the media, in the middle, given all the records he's been a part of. That makes it kind just a steady asset and also transcends multiple decades in a way that if something does come back in style, You can benefit from that upside. He also has a few records, I think about a record like Happy, that sync wise I think will continue to be used for years and years to come, in a host of ways.So Pharrell is one that could be a really safe bet or maybe a really unsafe bet, just dependent on how, things go. But I think there's enough factors, in, which he falls kind of nicely in to justify the bet. But I will say I don't think it will be, I don't think it will be cheap but I do think it can have a big upside.Dan Runcie: The upside smart thing about that pick, he's someone else I didn't think of, but I think it was a really good pick because you get the artist Pharrell and you get the producer Pharrell, so you get everything from, I forget that Sta but when was it? In 2002 or 2003, the Neptunes were responsible for 43% of the music that was on top 40 radio that was on, you know, pop So you get all those songs and then you get any of the stuff you did with NERD, you get any of like the Child Rebel Soldier stuff. I mean it makes a lot of sense. And then even songs like, Get Lucky was huge as well. I know that there's been a bunch of controversy around blurred lines, but I'm still sure that the revenue from that song continues to be massive.So I think that's a smart pick.Denisha Kuhlor: Exactly. And I think in the future we'll see kind of that doubling, right? artists like a Pharrell will continue to be super valuable when it comes to being able to capture the peak of their rights because they just have them.Dan Runcie: Definitely, definitely. so then with the last pick, it's funny, I hesitated with this one a bit, but I'm gonna go ahead and pick it anyway. It's probably the catalog or the rights that would go for the most money if anyone's was on the table at all right now. And it's Michael Jackson and I'm going to take his, because the fact that Thriller is now over 40 years old and I think that the baseline for streams from that song and streams from everything else is quite high.It is strong and there's value there. This is another one where I think I'm separating a bit of the personal versus the, you know, actual like business asset aspect of it, because I do think that the multimedia aspect of it. Yeah. You know, that would be difficult, and even me as an asset manager would probably be finding ways to create multimedia opportunities for that asset continuing forward.But on the other hand, there's still Broadway musicals, there's still Vegas intimate shows that they are creating off of this person's music. I think Variety had released that report a couple of months ago that said that they were in talks of a 900 million sale for half of the rights. I forget like exactly what the terms would be and including a few things, but I felt like that was too big not to ignore from an asset management perspective.So it would be the Michael Jackson rights for the final pick.Denisha Kuhlor: Wow. That's a really strong, a really strong final pick and makes my last pick even harder. Dan Runcie: You had seven though, right? Denisha Kuhlor: Yes, I did. I did. My seventh one is just a different caliberDan Runcie: Wait, wait. You, oh, oh, oh. With Pharrell you mean?Denisha Kuhlor: no, no, no, no. So my seventh one actually is, Dan Runcie: Wait, wait. Did we miss one? Hold on. Let me just run through it real quick. You had Mariah, Bad Bunny, Burna Boy, Lizzo, Summer Walker, Pharrell Denisha Kuhlor: YesDan Runcie: Oh, oh. We both have one more. Oh, okay. I missed up. Okay. You're right, you'reright. Yeah. okay. All one?Denisha Kuhlor: Yes. So my last pick is DMX. One, I think in a lot of ways DMX has a very unique style of music. It has a very unique style of rap. Talking to a lot of, or not talking to, but I guess watching their interviews. A lot of rappers are very inspired by DMX and he still gets credited, for, you know, rap styles or little lines that, artists borrow or throw in their music and he has a bit of a high sample potential.I think we'll see some of his music sampled more and oddly enough, whether it's like a movie, like a Creed or something like that, this sheer like BPM of some of his music, is definitely attractive from like a sync perspective. For, upbeat movies that wanna like, leverage a rap song or leverage hip hop.and I also think, and he's done very well in getting quite a few syncs when it comes to video games, I'm thinking about sings so often this podcast from a movie perspective, but gaming syncs are huge as well. and DMX's music is quite huge in the gaming community. So if anything, from an, optimizing the asset perspective, I would focus on optimizing his syncs for gaming, because of the BPM of his music.And I think I would get it at a favorable rate.Dan Runcie: Yeah, I couldn't imagine there might be some high ROI potential there, I would say and just given how dominant that run was, and I think some people forget. Yeah. Each of those first albums was just like, you know, topping the charts and everything. Especially from like 98 to 03'. it was, on, I mean, there were other rappers who may have had like, you know, bigger commercial success at that time from whether it was someone like Eminem or some others. But in terms of like relevance, that still matters to a lot of people and how that can continue. X is up there. Do you think we'll see an X movie at some point?Denisha Kuhlor: You know, I hope we do. and that's how I reference, how a lot of rappers like, feel about him because musicians appreciating another artist are probably our most likely way. You see obviously 50 cent, 50 cent in TV and film production, Drake with Euphoria, even Childish Gambino, right?So him being revered by other artists I think puts him on the best path for us to see that. which also would be Dan Runcie: Yeah. That's a good pick. So I think so. I actually, but now my seventh pick, because I'm like re-looking at these. I had Taylor, Drake, Eminem, SZA, Bruno Mars, Michael, and then now the seventh pick. this is tough, but, I'm gonna take the Weeknd and I'm gonna take him because Denisha Kuhlor: Oh, amazing. Dan Runcie: I think it's really hard to have a song that's been released like in the pandemic era of music that still tops the charts, but everything from After Hours is still getting so much radio play.He just did a remix with Ariana Grande, Die For You, a song that came out now, what, seven years ago. And that song had topped the charts. He has this ability to just, I think it's him and a handful of other artists that just have this ability to make music that can continue to like pierce through. I mean, we didn't get as much of that from Don FM but I think even he himself, like that album didn't get as much, you know, focus the same way that everything from After Hours did.And he has this way of just kind of capturing, a generation just with like the feel and the vibe, I think sync potential, especially as he's gonna be in more movies now himself and what that could look like. So, yeah definitely.Denisha Kuhlor: That's super strong. He makes hits.Dan Runcie: Another pop artist, so I know, you know, there's a bunch of Max Martin and other producers that'll get their share, but I'll take his, so, Yeah. No, super. Right. So yeah, so let's just round out the lists here. and then let's share. So with the first pick, and then in order you took Mariah Carey, then Bad Bunny, then Burna Boy, then Lizzo, Summer Walker, then Pharrell Williams and DMX. And then I took Taylor Swift, Drake, Eminem, SZA, Bruno Mars, Michael Jackson, and the Weeknd.So, yeah. How are you feeling about your picks? Did you feel like you got the artist that you wanted? Do you feel like you, you know, got the ones that you wanted to like, lighten everything up?Denisha Kuhlor: Yeah, I do. I think that some of those artists are bets that would hopefully, positively surprise me. but there's enough artists, within those picks that I know revenue will be generated and will have a positive upside regardless. If anything, we can continue to crown on Mariah Carey and some of Pharrell's records and even just the dominance Bad Bunny continues to have for a very long time while also seeing, how dominant, for decades to come an artist like a Summer Walker.Dan Runcie: Yeah, I think if we were to look at these catalogs like, or look at both of our portfolios, I think you would have like the Vanguard Growth Fund and I would have like the Vanguard Blue Chip Fund if that makes sense. Right?Denisha Kuhlor: Exactly. Exactly, exactly. Dan Runcie: You know, you may generate some higher returns, but with that, you know, there's more risk that comes with it as well.but yeah, mine, think it's probably assumed that you would generate higher returns because I feel like SZA's probably the, not even like, oh, it's probably the pick of mine that is the least blue chip relative to the rest of them. And yeah. enough, even someone like Bruno Mars is probably more skewed towards less of that certified pick on mine just because of how much of a more, strong base the other artists do have.Denisha Kuhlor: Totally. If I had to, compare thinking about venture, I would say you definitely took like a series C, series D, growth fund, with a few, maybe more Series A, like a series A pick. I think maybe this is to my roots, I took more of a series B potentially with a good opportunity fund and skewed heavily ine and seed, with a few of those artists as well. Dan Runcie: No, that makes sense. That makes sense. What were some of your honorable mentions? Yeah, maybe you can name like three, maybe first I wanna do honorable mentions, and then second, I wanna talk about some rising folks. Maybe some people that you would've picked, but maybe you didn't pick, because it's like, no, it's too early.It's too early, right? But yeah,Denisha Kuhlor: let yeah, no, Dan Runcie: with the honorable mentions like who are one or two that you had considered?Denisha Kuhlor: For sure. So the biggest honorable mention for me is Usher, Dan Runcie: yep. He Denisha Kuhlor: um Dan Runcie: mine too.Denisha Kuhlor: usher, the Vegas residency, the, tiny desk Usher's been having a phenomenal few last years. and I think people don't even realize the residency really brought it back for a lot of people. The breadth of his catalog's so talented, his music is intergenerational or continues to transcend generations. Usher was one that I thought a lot about. I was kind of going back and forth between Usher and Pharrell, and I picked Pharrell because of the exposure to so many other artists that he has. but Usher was a really, really big one.Dan Runcie: Yeah, he was on my list too, because I think similarly, this Vegas residency has created a moment and it's hard to be able to do that. I can't speak to, I haven't looked at his stream numbers and I mean, I really even like back when I feel like Usher's music was at like the top of pop culture and stuff. I don't, I wasn't tracking, oh, how high Confessions on the Billboard 200. That's just not something that I thought or cared about time, but I think that he's won. He was on my list as well. Someone else that was on my list too was, Kendrick Lamar was on my list too, because good kid, m.A.A.d city's been on the charts for a decade plus.People are still listening to that, and that's higher charts now than what the last album is. Mr. Morale, the big step was, I know that album was more controversial but the fact that Damn and, good kid, m.A.A.d city are still on the charts. You have still Pimp A Butterfly. You never know what type of multimedia opportunities that can turn into.I think if you're talking at least in my opinion, like pure like bar for bar, like the best like rapper lyricist of the past decade plus, I think it is him and there's something to be said for what value have. So yeah, he was who I was going back and forth with him and the Weeknd, for that seventh pick.But yeah, he was my honor, audible mention.Denisha Kuhlor: Kendrick pick is strong. my rap honorable mention is actually J. Cole Dan Runcie: Yep. I had him on the list. Denisha Kuhlor: As someone that gets mentioned in, a lot of the conversations with Kendrick and I think for Cole, a few reasons. one, the whispers of retiring are looming and we know that he has the desire to retire sometime in the near future.So I think people will cherish the records that he has even more, the fan base of the Dreamville built is super engaged. super active, and I think we'll be that way for a long time to come. And J. Cole, you know, picked up a lot of good features when he was coming up. Maybe it's the Rock Nation effect or whatever, but he has some amazing features, whether it's, party with Beyonce or just like, he has some really great features that he's gotten as well. So yeah, that's one I would be super excited to have.Dan Runcie: Every time I look at hits, daily double stats, just seeing who's trending. No role models is always on that chart somewhere. and it's now been, eight and a half, nine years since that song came out. So it's a hits game. If I can get one of the biggest rap songs of the decade and one of the more popular rap albums of the decade too, then you take that obviously so many other hits as you mentioned Party, and a lot of the other ones that he's then.But that song, I think itself is worth at least bringing the conversation up. A few people that I didn't mention, but I'm curious if they came up for you. We can just keep these kind of rapid fire before we get to the Rising But did you consider Ed Sheeran?Denisha Kuhlor: You know, I did, I thought a lot about like having UK representation, . and he came up for me there. He's also done a lot of like features with, African artists, whether it's Stormzy, Burna Boy, but I ultimately shied away from him. I don't even know if I have the right things to point to it, but something didn't feel right.Dan Runcie: Okay. He was on the list I had as well. I just preferred the other ones more.Denisha Kuhlor: Yeah. Like it's not even fully like quantitative, like no. Yeah, It just, yeah, like he was compelling, but not compelling enough to make you wanna get excited. Dan Runcie: Yeah, it's like I know that Divide was a huge album. I know that Shape of You is probably one of the biggest hits of the past 15 years if we're going back that far. But yeah, you know, it's just kind of tough cuts. I mean, yeah, I'm sure that al that catalog will probably generate more revenue overall, maybe then like scissors, like someone that I took.But I that Ed Sheeran's catalog isn't gonna come at, you know, a cheap cost, but who knows? So he's at least someone I thought about. Did you consider, this is going back a little bit further, but did you consider Celine Dion?Denisha Kuhlor: Oh, no, I didn't. But Celine Deion makes so much sense for so many reasons, but I didn't, you know, I'm thinking about my picks, probably Mariah Carey and DMX were as far back as went and that's because I was thinking about the streaming optimization as well, with the number you said. And IFPI's latest report streaming is just taking so much of the conversation.I would probably go for a lookalike audience to Celine Dion, so maybe more like an Adele, which also wouldn't come cheap. but audience that is a little more, well, didn't I take Adele? I think that Adele almost, in a way like Ed Sheeran, for all the right reasons. It's like, no, I wouldn't get pushback if I was thinking about my LPs comment saying, I don't get pushback in any way for picking Adele, but in a lot of ways Adele feels safe. And while her music is easily recognizable and does well, her type of music in a lot of ways, doesn't really feel like something that you play and stream over and over almost in the way that Taylor Swift's music does.and so while ballads are great, and I think people really, really love them from a replay value on streaming, I just didn't get as excited as I wanted to.Dan Runcie: I think you're right because I think that the reason that I didn't take her is because I thought that it could have easily been a catalog and rights that you would overpay for because of the name and everything that she's done. But when you look at the pure streaming numbers, yeah, I know that Easy on me had like broken records at the time, but still those records I believe got broken like a week later or a month later by BTS or whoever else, it was Bad Bunny and since then Taylor Swift, right? So yeah, I questioned the replay value and I do think that because, yeah, I thought that it would've been high compared to some of these other artists. Going back to the Celine point, I think you were right, because I also shifted a bit just thinking about how big the streaming error is and how that generates so much cattle revenue for this.And one of the big thesis that I've had overall with music rights sales and acquisition is that a lot of these deals have overvalued the artists from the seventies and eighties and undervalued the from the nineties and two thousands. Because if you thinking about the dominant we're streaming as and who are the dominant generation of those consumers, as great as you know, Celine and others were, the songs that are most likely to resonate are like Taylor Swift and Drake, you know, are gonna be more relevant to this generation than Madonna or Celine Dion or some of the others.And I did consider. Madonna as well, just thinking about it. I know this next tour she's gonna do on is gonna be big, but I held back then for the same Celine thing. It's like, yeah, maybe if this was 20 years ago when we were doing this draft in 2003, then maybe I would've taken Celine Dion or Madonna but I think that decay curve is definitely, you know, flattened a bit where maybe the upside, not just the upside potential, but the consistency just may not be, or not the consistency.Obviously it's consistent, but it just didn't seem to valuable as some of these other picks.Denisha Kuhlor: Yeah. No, I agree. And I think, you know, in like working the music or working the records, so you can optimize your catalog. You have to kind of think about who's making the decisions now or who's coming into power now. and some of those executives are younger. and so, thinking about how they might place value, even though they're familiar, obviously with the brand and the artists, on a premium for that music, I think it would be a much longer conversation much to what you said, which is probably why some of these artists were willing to sell, and kind of let the asset manager deal with the headache of justifying the value while they've extracted the value from the asset manager who's excited to go out and Dan Runcie: Yeah. Did you consider Beyonce?Denisha Kuhlor: I did consider Beyonce. I just, it's expensive very, very, very expensive. it would be, I think, you know, Beyonce is an interesting one. She's actually one of my favorites in the sense that I think uses her catalog really well with all kind of the moments that she's had, whether it's the Super Bowl or, her Coachella performance.She reworks her music in a way that continues to feel new. Like as an artist, almost to the point of where I also had trepidation with Adele, how Adele navigates her artistry. while I respect, and obviously we want artists that set boundaries. I don't know if it's in my best interest as an artist, right?She kind of drops her music and waits long stretches before going back her choice to cancel her tour and do a Las Vegas residency, means there'll be a lot of places untouched unless she decides to, venture out. Whereas someone like Beyonce is exciting because her music is always being brought back, right?I did consider, interestingly enough, Destiny's child, because I feel like I, it would get the upside of every time a Beyonce performs or has a big, moment on the world stage, at a price point. And maybe Beyonce's part wouldn't be up for grabs, but other people's would at a price point that would be attractive.Dan Runcie: The other thing about Beyonce too is that she's kind of like Lizzo, but magnified in this sense that very high touring to streaming output, if that makes sense. But I don't get to collect tour revenue. I'm collecting the music rights and a lot of the songs from Renaissance. So if you compare the streaming of SZA's SOS to Beyonce's Renaissance, like it isn't even close. SZA's is much more popular there and the same way that I'm seeing good kid, m.A.A.d city and 2014 Forest Hill drives and Eminem's Greatest hits albums like still at the top of that charts. I'm not seeing the same thing for Lemonade or Beyonce in a way that's almost surprising because you feel like, okay, the generational impact, those records are huge.Everyone revered them, but this is a game and they just aren't at that And I know you'd have to pay a premium because of it's Beyonce.Denisha Kuhlor: Yeah. Beyonce is one of the biggest, and probably most vocal invisible fan bases in the world. but that doesn't also in some ways, show for the parts that we just talked about, right? Some of these younger fan bases or these fan bases for other artists, They care very much about streaming.They were a digital native or streaming first, and they're going to continue to optimize for that. whereas, like you said, I think because Beyonce's fan base is so engaged, so passionate, you see the power of the fan base come out really in touring, whether they listen to Beyonce every day for the past year, I think the conversion and amount probably of minutes listened, for a Beyonce to, in terms of needing to then feeling compelled to buy a ticket is much lower than the minutes needed to be listened for a SZA or some of these other artists to then lead to that conversion of buying, buying tickets and so she has a fan base that's gonna support, like regardless way. and like you said, that's not well great. Not in our best interest.Dan Runcie: Right. Yeah. Because it's like she's been making music for over 25 years now as a high profile public recording artist, and in that way, because of the touring and amount, amount times, you got to see her. It's almost like her touring business is closer to Elton John or Billy Joel than it is SZA in that way.Denisha Kuhlor: Exactly. Beyonce is a touring artist who has the ability to use that fan base to parlay into super financially lucrative deals. But as you mentioned in the beginning of this criteria, unfortunately we'd not be seeing a lot of that. Dan Runcie: Right. And yeah, if you acquire the rights to Alien Superstar, you gotta split that with 24 different writers, soDenisha Kuhlor: Yes. Another great point. Beyonce's been highly collaborative,and very good about giving people opportunities and also giving them credit. but when it comes to the piece of the pie, which I'm sure she could do based off her ability to get extreme amounts of touring revenue, high leverage, brand partnerships, but when it comes to the part that we can control as asset managers, we'd definitely be paying a high premium, and hoping for the best in someone. Dan Runcie: Got it. Yep. I agree. All right, so a few rising stars that I had had and considered, but didn't. So, I look at someone like, so it's funny, neither of us picked any country or rock artists, but I look at the popularity of someone like Luke Combs and even though I don't listen to that genre of music or as much, he's dominated the charts.He has continued to just, you know, put out and, you know, someone that's still pretty young, I wanna say, I don't know, he is like late twenties, early thirties, 10 years from now, could we look back Denisha Kuhlor: and could Dan Runcie: this person have like, you know, impact level of like your, whether it's your Garth Brooks or Blake Shelton or like one of these other artists that like people just come to time and time again and they put up strong numbers both in streaming and in pure album sales.Someone like that could be interesting. I feel like Morgan Wallen is someone else that fits in this category where he is also just high on the charts Denisha Kuhlor: and Dan Runcie: stuff. I mean, obviously his incidents and everything else that he's been notorious for would cast a shadow on that. And I don't know if I'd be willing that necessarily, but he's one that came to mind too.And I think there's other artists too, like whether it's like, you know, Billy Eilish or Olivia Rodrigo it must have been like, okay, I could see them continuing, but we'll see.Denisha Kuhlor: Yeah, I thought like a Rosalia, on my end, for example. the other two that came to mind, and this one I don't know how to feel, but something in me was like considerate. NBA Youngboy, he has a fan base that's passionate right? And is digitally native and they stream and they don't really need, the opinions of the outside world when it comes to music.He was one probably not a category for Verizon stores and more honorable mentions, but I'll mention it. Anyway, Frank Ocean. I feel like there's value there, in Frank Ocean, for sure. And then, Rema, I feel like Rema is the next step, when it comes to music from the continent.The folks at Maven have continued to do an amazing job, and you look at Calm down, it's one of the biggest records in the world. And not only, within Africa or the United States, but also within India, which I thought was just super interesting. So definitely a really, really global artist. He's had records, calm Down, is doing well before this Selena Gomez remix.Dume B has been cited even on present Barack Obama's playlist. So I think he can hold his own, for sure. And feature wise he's very exciting as well. And he's still young enough, but with enough volume where I feel like I could get a competitive rate.Yeah, I think so too. Yeah, those are good picks there. let's see, another group I thought of, or not group, but where were they on this list? Let's see. So I did consider some K-pop in the mix. I was like, okay, what would that BTS catalog look like, right? I mean, because I feel like inthe same rationale that you had about Bad Bunny and Burna boy, I was considering them as well.I think what made me pause, I was. The fact that at least some of the group members now need to join the military, or at least on their like what does that look like? How does that impact the longevity of their music as opposed to them being able to kind of like ride the waves themselves?So it'll be interesting, right? It's because I think especially now, it's like, I feel like, I don't know, in, earlier days when it was more common for popular figures, whether it's in sports or entertainment to be drafted, there was less pop culture. Things saturating their mind. So when they came back, it's like, oh, okay.I don't know, this might be a bad analogy, but like, oh, Muhammad Ali's back still relevant. Okay. him, you know, he's doing opposed to a way where I hope by the time that BTS is like back in full effect again, that they still can command that same power that they once did. So,Dan Runcie: Yeah. So that dynamic is also why I kept them off. I thought a lot about like boy bands, interestingly enough. So when you look at the Jonas Brothers or even One Direction, and it's almost like the, at their peak like level of fandom, that their audience like gives them, I almost feel like it can't be topped again, for so many reasons, right?Like falls off in a way that you're really excited to embrace maybe when you're younger or them having a younger fan. Interestingly enough, the only person in, it's not a boy band, but that I feel like has captured that audience and has truly, really been able to maintain it, is the artist who did end up picking, which is Taylor Swift.Taylor Swift was able to successfully, like, grow with her fan base from this like teen era. to now we see that the upside is there for her because her fans just have more disposable income that they can spend on something that was so important to them for so long in their. Did you consider Harry Styles?Denisha Kuhlor: I did. but interestingly enough, I just go back and forth so much with, it feels still like a moment. I don't, I would like to see more catalog growth or more catalog volume before fully wanting to, before fully wanting to commit. It's one that I'd have on my radar, but I don't think, I'd be ready to start negotiating just yet.Dan Runcie: That's fair. Even if you got the one direction stuff, his chair of the One Direction stuff.Denisha Kuhlor: Now if I did that, that would make it, that would make it more attractive because it gives a bit of both worlds, the nostalgia from one direction as well as the bet on him as a solo artist but one kind of at least makes, whatever amount you spend, it gives a justification for it being stable to some some extent.Dan Runcie: Yeah, I don't know. That might not have been the best hypothetical to pose at you though, because like when Justin Timberlake sold his catalog, that was just him as a solo artist that had nothing to do with NSYNC or Yeah. like that.Denisha Kuhlor: Yeah. Yeah. and I think it's harder than we realize. And looking at a sync perspective, we would still need, even if we brought really valuable syncs sync opportunities, with their music, we would still need the permission of so many other people. So the sheer, operational output that would be required to truly maximize it, or at least that part of it, couldn't be taken lightly as well.Especially when you have so many other artists in your catalog in which the sign off to get a sync could be muchDan Runcie: Yeah, that's a good point. All right, well I know you and I could talk for hours about this topic and could probably draft seven more if we wanted to. I feel like we almost kind of did the, last part of the conversation. Denisha Kuhlor: We might need to have few more maybe pre-seed edition opportunity fund edition. Dan Runcie: Yeah, I feel like there's a few ways we could like set parameters around it where it's like, okay, only, you know, people under 30 years old. And then how does that change the or over 50 or people that longer with us or in a particular genre. I think there's so many others like that we didn't even mention.But yeah. any last words before we wrap this up?Denisha Kuhlor: Yeah, I mean, if anything, I have a lot of respect for the people that are doing this every day. I know, and you've interviewed some of the amazing firms that have really set out to, to do this work. but this is a fun one and I'm curious to hear everyone else's pick. So definitely tweet Dan and I.Dan Runcie: Yeah. Please respond with the ones you like, the ones you didn't like, and let's, let's keep the conversation going. Denisha, it's pleasure as always.Awesome. Thanks for having me. Dan Runcie Outro: If you enjoyed this podcast, go ahead and share it with a friend. Copy the link, text it to a friend, post it in your group chat. Post it in your Slack groups. Wherever you and your people talk, spread the word. That's how capital continues to grow and continues to reach the right people. And while you're at it, if you use Apple Podcast, Go ahead.Rate the podcast, give it a high rating, and leave a review. Tell people why you like the podcast. That helps more people discover the show. Thank you in advance. Talk to you next week.
Special episode featuring Margot from Military Murder. When PFC Denisha Montgomery-Smith's family was notified that she died by suicide - they were immediately suspicious, because 21 days before Denisha's death - Denisha made a call back home and she asked them to record the video call. In the video, that took place on July 19, 2022, Denisha told her family she was assaulted while riding in a car with 4 other soldiers. One of the assailants was Denisha's roommate. Denisha vowed to report the assault, but was discouraged from reporting it to Army CID, because she would "get in trouble for defending herself." Feeling defeated, Denisha just wanted to return to the U.S. to be with her family. For the next several weeks, she kept to herself. And on the night of her death, Denisha video chatted with her husband and kids and nothing seemed amiss. Hours later, Denisha was hanging from her wall locker. Join Margot, as she tells you more about who Denisha was as a person before her death and the information that leads her family to believe Denisha was murdered. Military Murder Social Medias: YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@mamamargot TikTok: https://tiktok.com/@militarymargot Instagram: http://www.instagram.com/militarymurderpodcast SUGGEST A CASE: https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLScRLzV8NmvFon-1uSotjyFjz6rcf5bY5wjAv4qSOwXP35buYQ/viewform CRIMEAHOLICS FACEBOOK GROUP: https://www.facebook.com/groups/CrimeaholicsPodcastDiscussionGroup CRIMEAHOLICS ON INSTAGRAM: https://www.instagram.com/crimeaholics.podcast/?hl=en CRIMEAHOLICS ON TIKTOK: https://www.tiktok.com/@crimeaholics.podcast?lang=en
Burna Boy will be the first African artist to headline a UK stadium show when he performs at the 60,000-capacity London Stadium this summer. It's the latest sign of Burna's starpower and Afrobeats exploding popularity.The Nigeria-born artist is one of the genre's biggest stars. Burna has reached this level because of consistency (six albums in nine years), savvy performing strategies, and a headliner mentality. To break down Burna's rise, I talked to Denisha Kuhlor, founder of Stan, which helps artists identify and grow their fanbase. Stan has used Burna show giveaways to develop insight into his wide-spreading fanbase. Here's what we discussed:[3:05] What sets Burna Boy apart from other African artists[6:26] Burna's show at London Stadium[7:26] The Burna fanbase[7:52] Streaming era impact on African music[11:56] Returning to Coachella after 2019 drama[17:05] How Ye incidentally helped Burna break out[19:16] How fame is perceived in Africa vs US[20:45] Fans of Africa's “Big Three” artists battling each other[21:50] Burna's “contested” Madison Square Garden sellout[24:11] Possible missteps in Burna's career[27:54] Projecting Burna's future shows[32:20] His best career move[38:03] Building record label infrastructure in Africa[44:06] Five-year prediction for Burna's careerListen: Apple Podcasts | Spotify | SoundCloud | Stitcher | Overcast | Amazon | Google Podcasts | Pocket Casts | RSSHost: Dan Runcie, @RuncieDan, trapital.coGuests: Denisha Kuhlor, @denishakuhlorThis episode was brought to you by trac. Learn more about how artists can bring web2 and web3 together for their fans at trac.coEnjoy this podcast? Rate and review the podcast here! ratethispodcast.com/trapitalTrapital is home for the business of music, media and culture. Learn more by reading Trapital's free memo.TRANSCRIPT[00:00:00] Denisha Kuhlor: I think it was interesting, him being so vocal in the approach he took, I think a lot of, Ayra Starr did a documentary for Spotify and she's quite big, especially within West Africa. And she talked about touring in the United States for the first time, and she basically said that she viewed it as an opportunity to make someone her fan, right?[00:00:19] Like, just by someone attending her show, her goal was to convert them into a fan. Whereas, Burna definitely takes the approach of, "you should either already be one or recognize my fan base for what they are." I think in his case he's lucky cuz he's been able to back it up. especially when you look at Coachella to now.[00:00:40] but definitely a, an approach that's consistent with his brand. [00:01:11] Dan Runcie Guest Intro: Today's episode is a case study style breakdown on the one and only Burna Boy. I was joined by someone who is a near expert when it comes to the world of Burna Boy, and that is Denisha Kuhlor, who has been on the pod several times, and she is the founder of Stan, where not only does she focus on how artists can engage their fan bases, she's actually been involved with ticket giveaways for Burna Boy's upcoming stadium show in London. So she has insights into what these fans are like, what are some of their preferences? And we talked about all that and more. We broke down, Burna Boy's rise. What are some of the key things to his success? What are some of the challenges? Talked about some of the other moments that he's had that we wanted to talk about.[00:01:57] Where does that stand with him? What is his standout moment and where things could really go for him from here on out? Really great conversation. If you enjoyed the one we did on Cash Money a couple weeks ago. This is something similar, but about an artist who is really having this moment right now, and we broke it all down.[00:02:12] Here's our breakdown on Burna Boy.[00:02:14] Dan Runcie: All right, today we have our case study style breakdown on the one and only Burna Boy, and who else is gonna join me then? Someone that understands him and the work that he's done in and out over the past few years. Denisha Kuhlor Welcome back to the pod.[00:02:29] Denisha Kuhlor: Thanks so much for having me. [00:02:30] Dan Runcie: Yeah, and I wanted to talk to you because you wrote that piece in Trapital several months ago, talking about how artists who have relied on music festivals, maybe there's something that they may regret down the road in terms of actually getting in there and building the true fanboy fan base. And you used Burna Boy as an example of someone that went through this and obviously he's blowing up. He's had a huge year and we've now seen so much growth, especially in the past few years of just how so many African artists have been able to rise and grow platform.[00:03:05] But Burna Boy has clearly been able to hit levels that many others haven't. What do you think it is that has set him apart?[00:03:13] Denisha Kuhlor: Yeah, I think one, just Bruno boy is very compelling, as an artist. I've seen him perform, last year twice. his Madison Square Garden show. Then I got to see him at, Afrochella now, Afro Future, in Ghana. And one, he is a live band, as crazy as that sounds, I feel like that's rare and rarer these days. as consumers, it kind of feels like we've gotten used to maybe a DJ or kind of that accompany accompaniment. So the live band aspect is a huge one for me, and I think he's very compelling on stage and has great, charisma. and then lastly, I kind of feel like he was everywhere this year.[00:03:53] You couldn't really. Escape him, whether it was last, last, as a hit or, him touring so much of the United States. I feel like if you didn't know about Burna boy, maybe a year or two ago, last year was definitely just a true breakout year for him on the global stage. [00:04:09] Dan Runcie: Yeah, I think that makes sense. I think there was a couple other things that stuck out to me too. So he has been able to position himself as a leading man. I am the person that's headlining. I'm not just gonna be the person opening for the artist. gonna be the person that is doing the guest first.[00:04:27] And I do think that's some of the other artists who rose up from Africa, they have done a bit more of the, "okay, let me jump on the Drake verse. And then that becomes Drake's or things like that." although I know that Burna has done several guest appearances and feature shares, it hasn't been in that same way.[00:04:45] And I think he's still just been so focused on himself in that way. And of course it could take a little bit longer to develop, but it's almost like how in Hollywood you may see someone that is always positioning themselves as supporting acting roles. If that's where you're taken to blow up, it could be hard for the industry to see you.[00:05:04] The lead actor, but if you're willing to do the lead actor roles for the smaller things and you get the right thing, then you become seen as the lead actor on the big I feel like that's [00:05:14] been his experience. [00:05:15] Denisha Kuhlor: I'm totally aligned with you when, just based off you talking about that makes me think about some of his features on the continent. And he's largely broken those artists, right? You look at Bnxn,formerly known as Buju, right? [00:05:27] And the Lenu remix who was signed a Burna. I first heard about Amapiano,because Burna Boy got on the Spoon, No No remix, and one of the biggest breakout stars of the continent, Asake, the Zumba remix, this year. So I agree, I think he's positioned his features as more as like, let me lend a helping hand and let me get your distribution and your visibility. But if I was. In African artists or emerging artists from the continent vying for a feature in some ways, I'd probably wanna Burna feature over potentially a big artist from the west. [00:06:04] Dan Runcie: Yeah. And I think a lot of that is with his. And his persona, and we can get into that in a minute, but I that played into a lot of this. And as you said, he's been every run the past year and we're setting stage for an even bigger 2023 where he will do his stadium tour at London Stadium, the first African artist, a headline and do that.[00:06:26] What does that mean for his career?[00:06:28] Denisha Kuhlor: Yeah. One, I think it's just huge and a testament to how far music from the continent has grown. I think, you know, you look at the story or how people paint the narrative of how music from the continent has grown. And so often it's kind of like, oh, there's a population of people here or there's little, you know, subsets of people that are interested in the music.[00:06:51] Whereas now, it's makes it very clear that this is world music, right? This is pop music in a lot of ways in that people have embraced this music in the same way you look at, Latin music, right? And people are singing whether they know Spanish or not. I think it's really a testament to the ability to do that. So it's very exciting. [00:07:13] Dan Runcie: Yeah. I think you've also had a front row seat to this as well, because with your work at Stan, you've been doing ticket giveaways and things like that to really tap into who the Burna Boy super fans are.[00:07:26] Denisha Kuhlor: Yeah, so we've found two things working with Burna Boy fans or Burna Boy fan pages. Is that, or maybe even three. I find that one you have the fan that maybe, it reminds them of home. So typically a fan with roots or ties back to West Africa or Africa more broadly, who's now living abroad or first generation, but there's a sense of nostalgia or home as a result.[00:07:52] I think you also have fans that are like learning or being introduced to, Africa. Through his music, which has been really fascinating and really cool to see us talking to a fan, based in France, right? That like taught herself pidgin and like wants to visit Nigeria because she's such a big Burna boy fan.[00:08:11] and that's also really, really cool to see. And then third, I think you just have like hometown pride, right? Like you look at people in Lagos or even other African cities and people are just really, really proud of what he's been able to do. So it's interesting seeing all the subsets of fans together.[00:08:29] Denisha Kuhlor: But as someone who's attended his shows, I think it's exhilarating when you watch it all come together. [00:08:36] Dan Runcie: And just for some context for the listeners, what does your giveaway entail and what does that process look like?[00:08:43] Denisha Kuhlor: Yeah. So, we run live interactive trivia games that allow us to test a fan's knowledge and how much they actually know about the artists. So everything from lyrics to questions that fans would only know if they watch music videos to general information about Burna boy that you probably would only get if you read his interviews [00:09:04] or you just deeply know about him. Every time we're crafting these games, I actually learn so much more about, these artists that we work with. And so I say that to say, I'm continuously surprised not only by his fans' knowledge of his music and his lyrics, but also how intentional they've been about truly learning about him and what they feel he represents. And so I feel like he's done a really good job of being consistent in that narrative.[00:09:32] Dan Runcie: I think too, one of the other things that really works in his favor is that in the rise of the streaming era, we're seeing the rise of local repertoire and local language artists being able to rise and not just have to rely on Western cultures. And I think that the music industry has shifted a bit, or at least from a mentality perspective, and you could see this on the Spotify daily charts.[00:09:56] You can see there's so many places where there were so many artists who were used to being able to have that global footprint of essentially exporting their music elsewhere than making so much money they're now seeing less and they're seeing less because a lot of these artists are being able to do it themselves, and it's not just.[00:10:16] Burna Boy's being able to do this in West Africa, but he's being able to do this in France, which has, you know, a large West African population and some of these other corners of the world that do, and I'm curious to see how that will continue to develop, because you know how the diaspora and certain regions that.[00:10:34] You see more fans of West African artists than just West Africans in general, and how that will align with where someone like Burna Boy continues to tour and where some of the bigger concentrations of his fandom end up being.[00:10:49] Denisha Kuhlor: Yeah. I think, you know, interestingly enough, like he also probably benefited from the rise of like macro things that maybe couldn't plan, but like one black panther, right? Black Panther, like reignited people's curiosity about Africa and maybe in a way in which, they hadn't thought of before you look at things like the year of return in Ghana in 2019 and this bridge or this desire to have a bridge between black Americans in the United States and you know, people in Ghana.[00:11:18] And I think all those like, factors made people, got people excited and got excited in a way that his music just set the stage. If you came to Ghana in 2019, you were gonna hear br boy and people were gonna take it back, right? [00:11:33] Denisha Kuhlor: Davido said it best. He said, you know, Afrobeats will succeed because in America, everybody has one African friendand whether you realize it or not, like, you are exposed in some way, and I think as people's proximity changed and curiosity about each other and where people are from grew, especially as it relates to Africa, he really benefited from that. [00:11:56] Dan Runcie: That makes sense. That makes sense. And I think the other thing too, that I think about for him this year, he of course has the huge stadium show in London, but he's also coming back to Coachella and very famously back to Coachella after being quite upset in 2019 about the size of his name on that Coachella poster. And this day, this year, this time around, his name is much bigger. Still not a but I'd be curious know what you think, like how he must have felt about that process. Was there some level of buy-in? Because I could see at his level him thinking that, okay, I'm a superstar. I should be a headliner. But if they're now putting him on that second line right under the headliner, then how that may affect him. Obviously it's still great placement, but. Yeah.[00:12:45] Denisha Kuhlor: Yeah. You know, it's interesting and I remember when that happened and in some ways I think it probably helped his brand and really showed like it was a testament to the type of artist that he desired to be. I do, you know, think it's interesting because you do see within Africa stars that are huge, right?[00:13:04] And maybe they're numbers, quantitatively don't show up on the Spotify charts, they're on YouTube or they're on other platforms. there's still quite of downloading, that exists within just Africa as a whole. So sometimes we don't necessarily see an artist as set the way we would, maybe with an artist in the States or with a huge listenership in the States, from a charts perspective or immediately.[00:13:27] But I will say is I think it was interesting, him being so vocal in the approach he took, I think a lot of, Ayra Starr did a documentary for Spotify and she's quite big, especially within West Africa. And she talked about touring in the United States for the first time, and she basically said that she viewed it as an opportunity to make someone her fan, right?[00:13:48] Like, just by someone attending her show, her goal was to convert them into a fan. Whereas, Burna definitely takes the approach of, "you should either already be one or recognize my fan base for what they are." I think in his case he's lucky cuz he's been able to back it up. especially when you look at Coachella to now.[00:14:09] but definitely a, an approach that's consistent with his brand. [00:14:14] Dan Runcie: Right? Because I think that part of it too is there's clearly a western skew for a festival like Coachella. I know that when Burna had complained back in 2019 about where he was, people had shown where Kendrick Lamar was, I think it was 2012, and how small his name was compared to him being a headliner several years later.[00:14:35] Denisha Kuhlor: The difference there though is that Kendrick Lamar is from Compton, which is which is driving distance to Indio, California where Coachella is, versus Burna boy may have numbers, may have the base, it's is that base, if they're not a strong contention of them in the in Southern California, are they going to be able to get there?[00:14:58] And I do think that the fact that he is, you know, second because this year you're headliners, unless someone pulls out, you never know what happens. But, right now your headliners are Frank Ocean, Bad Bunny, and Black Pink. So he's, you know, just under there. So you never know what could happen. Things shift all the time, but I assume if based on his placement, it must be a pretty decent size bag as well.[00:15:21] At least I know for the headliners, the last I checked a few years ago, they were getting paid 4 million per weekend, which totaled 8 million total. so that's what I would assume the payday would be for, Bunny, Black Pink and Frank Ocean, but then that next row down probably isn't too far below that.[00:15:40] I mean, I'm sure it is less money, but I don't know how much less.[00:15:43] Sure. Yeah. Yeah. And when you look at like negotiating from just a hard tickets perspective, in terms of what he's been able to drive from last year alone, he definitely had some strong leverage from a negotiating standpoint.[00:15:57] Dan Runcie: definitely. And with someone like him too. I know that we've talked a lot about artists and how they're able to develop true fandom, and I think true fandom is the people that are showing up at your. Concerts and they know the words of everything and not just singing the TikTok part that goes viral that we've seen from whether it's many artists that have experienced that, that have had TikTok hits that have blown up.[00:16:24] How do you think that impacts someone like Burna boy, I don't necessarily feel like he is making music, quote unquote for TikTok. I know a lot of the stuff that blows up their artists don't have any control over, but how do you think that skews, like how do you think that soc or short form video has played a factor, if at all, in his career and his rise?[00:16:44] Denisha Kuhlor: Yeah, I think a few ways, one, touring, right? I think people want to go to a Bea boy show even if they haven't seen him before or only know a few songs. So I think it's definitely been really, really helpful there. I don't know how many, people know, like the story behind Ye, one of his breakout hits, but like SEO just like really helped him.[00:17:05] So he had the song, Ye. It was already uploaded to streaming platforms, and then Kanye came out with his album. . And so a lot of folks search for Kanye's album, but his, was still like ranking pretty high on Spotify. They actually released a video that that day or around that time thinking, thinking Kanye, for, for the album name.[00:17:25] So I do think in, this is what's so interesting. He's very true to himself in the sense that he's definitely not an artist that like hopped on those trends, right? Like TikTok is not really potentially his thing. he's not gonna be doing any TikTok dances, so he's still been authentic to himself. While I think galvanizing his fans or letting his fans know, he appreciates their effort and I believe his fans look at it more so it as like, let's spread this message, regardless of his participation.[00:17:58] That's something I always get from his fans specifically, it seems like you have different artists, with fan bases. Like the Barbz need Nicki to participate, they want Nicki to participate, right? [00:18:09] Whereas Burna fans, I feel like they do their own thing. They know the temperament of the artists and what he likes to do, and so they don't, they're not really like rushing for him to, adopt maybe some of those technique. [00:18:23] Dan Runcie: And that's an interesting breakdown. Do you think that any of that is compared to where the artist is from or just the nature of their fans? Thinking specifically about the Barbz versus Burna Boy's fans.[00:18:37] Denisha Kuhlor: Mm. that is interesting. You know, I can't say with certainty, but what I will say and as I've spent more time in Ghana is that there's a level of familiarity. I find, past, maybe, I don't know what it is, but past like, experiences that maybe invoke a certain socioeconomic status. There's a level of familiarity, that you'll find these artists like I've definitely maybe seen, or you can be in spaces with so many of these artists just casually like going to a restaurant or, you know, like you living your.[00:19:16] And, I do think that invokes a certain sense of familiarity in which fame is perceived differently here. like in Ghana specifically, you see a lot of, a lot of artists here with very little to know security. just like really doing regular things. it's very different, whereas the fame is more sensationalized it feels, in the states, like you can be in the club with Burna, he's walking up and there's not gonna be the, oh my god, Burna, like that kind of thing. It's very different in that way. So maybe that wouldn't really add much, at least to his core or his home base fans, because that familiarity is there. [00:19:56] Dan Runcie: Yeah, it feels a bit the closest thing that I would. You have in the US is Atlanta, where you would have the artists that are at the mall or you see them walking around and stuff. And it isn't necessarily the same level of frenzy, although that may be a little bit different now, but in like, you know, the nineties, two thousands, you would see them a bit more.[00:20:17] And I think there was a bit more of that vibe that felt a bit more natural like, you know, you go to Magic City or something like that and you would see someone. I think the other thing that is distinctive too with the US fans versus maybe some of the fans, others, is that online, I think you do see a bit more of that hive behavior, specifically from a group like the Barbz, where I think there's almost a falsification to them.[00:20:45] Denisha Kuhlor: And in that, I mean the reactiveness to the other side and what they're saying, and there's almost the galvanization of that and how the barbs can galvanize in Cardi B take down, or a snide comment of someone trying to come at Nicki in a way, but they that bit of catalyst to feel galvanized.You know what's interesting? I do find it that I do think that Burna fans and maybe the big three, so for folks listening, within Africa, the big threes typically referred to as DeVito, Burna boy and Whiz Kids. So they all have their, various fan bases. And the only time I really feel like that's activated.[00:21:27] Seeing how their artists are doing in the West and comparing. Right. So, you know, obviously with Burna winning the Grammy, but and I talked to you about this, like his, Madison Square garden numbers were quite contested. Like if you actually look at the Twitter account that shares,ticketing information. That one was like retweeted so many times because it was the fan bases going back and forth.[00:21:50] Like he actually did sell out MSG versus didn't he? So it's very interesting because while, you know, in some ways like his hyper localized approach in terms of the themes of his music is what's propelling him on the world stage. I do think these fan bases are very curious to see just how well they're doing and they use that as the point of comparison, as it relates to other African artist. [00:22:13] Dan Runcie: Wait, what was the contention that the fans had about the MSG sellout?[00:22:18] Denisha Kuhlor: Yeah, so there were a few things. One, they felt like there weren't enough seats available. [00:22:23] Dan Runcie: Oh, you did tell me about this. [00:22:25] Denisha Kuhlor: True . Yeah. Like it was a true sellout. And, at first folks didn't believe that he had sold it out. So, it's also interesting with fan bases because you're now seeing like novice or people, fans knew to wanting to understand how the industry works and also wanting to dig into what that means. But that, I think gave the confirmation that he did sell it out,and led to other fan base battles over the discrepancies. [00:22:56] Dan Runcie: Right? Yeah. Cuz you and I talked about this. It isn't like if someone just books like a music hall or a House of blues, purpose of that is for music venue. So the capacity's listed as the capacity, but for some of these sports venues, it could be very different because artists have such different set pieces and stage and production and you don't wanna perform with your back to people like yyou're gonna be different places. So [00:23:18] Denisha Kuhlor: Exactly. [00:23:18] Dan Runcie: You can't compare the sellout for a Knick's playoff game capacity and be like, oh, well that had more people than Burna Boy's selling out MSG. It's like, it [00:23:27] Denisha Kuhlor: Exactly. And that was a lot of, the conversation, which I thought was so interesting. But I also think it it came about because of how he branded it, right? One Night in Space was the name of that. It wasn't part of a tour, anything, it was just one night in space. And so there were gonna be a lot of eyes on that event, regardless.[00:23:48] Dan Runcie: Yeah, and you know, people always try to poke holes when they see something that surprises them that they probably wouldn't have, you know, seen otherwise.[00:23:57] So we've talked a lot about the things that Burna Boy's done well, how he's got to this point. Do you think there's any missed opportunities so far at this point in his career or anything that you've looked back on and be like, huh, I wonder if he did that differently, or even things that he may be doing after?[00:24:11] Denisha Kuhlor: Yeah, so, I obviously have a company around fan engagement, so some of the fan engagement has been interesting. I will say, one thing that's been, very pleasant for me has been some of his intentionality around connecting deeper with his fans this last album he did host quite a few meet and greets, and had people bring their albums or you know, even bring their kids and like that kind of thing.[00:24:37] I felt like he was really like seeing and touching people, which is something that in the past it didn't really seem like maybe he was open to or necessarily had the appetite for. So that was nice to see. It sounds like, or at least for me, the professionalism when it came to One Night in Space was also great. [00:24:56] the show started on time, ended on time. Can't necessarily say the same for some of his shows within Africa. And that can be due to a host of reasons, but it definitely does lead to, maybe folks will get different experiences. And that's what's so tricky in some ways about artists, in supporting artists.[00:25:16] He's also headlined Afro Nation, Afro Nation, Puerto Rico. They've pulled out the day before and he was replaced with Rick Ross, which upset a lot of fans. So, I say all that to say, I think. It's a Burna Boy production or Burna Boy affair. it seems like everything is phenomenal. and just A- plus end to end when there are other stakeholders.[00:25:41] The process doesn't always seem as smooth, at least for the end user experience, for the fan. so I, I think it sometimes becomes a question of like are we going to continue to pursue some of these opportunities with other stakeholders, whether that's festivals or, just some of these other events, right?[00:26:00] Denisha Kuhlor: Or are we going to take the bulk of our production or the bulk of our events or how a fan can interact with me from a live performance standpoint in-house, and control the end-to-end experience that way.[00:26:13] Dan Runcie: Yeah. And I do think that this strength weakness here lines up with the things that we're saying before, right? If he's someone that wants to be the lead, you wanna be the focus. You're gonna put more energy into the Burna Boy Productions and you may take a slight at things that are not that right. And I think it's unfortunate if some of that distribution skews between the things you do outside of Africa are the things you do in the Western world that do buttoned up, but then when you're back home it has less energy, less focus because yeah, your day one fans of your stans are gonna feel like, okay, well now that he's stadium status, what do we get?[00:26:52] Denisha Kuhlor: Yeah. and in fairness, you know, some of that is probably, you know, thanks to the regulation, like there is no coming on at 2:00 AM at MSG. Like they will set everyone home. You'll not be allowed to perform. they will charge you a fine. so there's also I think just some of the like, again, the standards upheld within these ecosystems.[00:27:12] But it breeds a dynamic that it's unfortunate and I think is happening just overall where consumers are privy to this at this experience. As a fan that goes to see a show, I don't really wanna hear the promoter and technical issues and like production. I paid my money, I took my money to see this artist.[00:27:35] So, now the fact that fans are being so exposed in a lot of ways to all the elements behind these things, not only are making them more sophisticated consumers, in deciding whether to patronize you again, but it's taking away some of the magic that was entertainment and like show business. [00:27:54] Dan Runcie: Yeah. I do think that for someone like him specifically, it is important to work on how could this product be the best that it can be? Whether you are doing it at home, whether you're doing it elsewhere, and obviously knowing where you're doing it elsewhere, you're involved with other productions, there's things that are gonna be outta your control.[00:28:13] And I know it's asking someone that is naturally more focused on putting more into the things they have more control into to still bring that same energy elsewhere. But hopefully, I'm sure that he wants to be eventually a headliner at a Coachella or a Glastonbury. I'm to do other stadium shows as well. That'll actually go to the next thing that I'll ask you, I think that if that's the goal, then some of that energy has to con continue there. So, two questions here, this is a two-parter. So the first one, obviously London is the first. Well, I don't wanna say the first, but at least it's the one of the biggest stages that he has had himself.[00:28:51] I think, you know, we'll see how many tickets end up being sold. I assume it'll probably be at least like 60,000 or so, just given the size of that place. But where do you think, if you could project where the next stadium shows would be based on his fan base, based on what you know, where do you think those would I would say Texas , somewhere in, Texas. I mean, Dallas and Houston have some of the biggest African populations, within the United States. And so when I think about that, not only do they have African, you know, or they're first gen or immigrant populations, but a lot of people have also been exposed just by proximity.[00:29:31] So I think, yeah, I think it would be either Houston or Dallas. Definitely somewhere in the States, I do think he could do somewhere else in Europe, but if looking at the data really does concentrate, at least in London and with the disposable income, I think that would allow for a show like that, for a show like that to be successful. Another thing about Burna that's interesting is, he's been touring. So a lot of these fans, you hadn't seen him two years ago. You definitely have had your opportunity to see him now. even when I think about, by the time I saw him at Madison Square Garden, I could have seen him at Afropunk right in New York as well.[00:30:14] He did summer or he was supposed to do Summer Jam. So there were like multiple opportunities, even just within New York to see him. So I wonder though, before he does that. There will be a bit of a, break, or at least new music so that the consumer feels like they're seeing something. [00:30:31] Dan Runcie: What about Paris?[00:30:32] Denisha Kuhlor: Yeah. So Paris is a really interesting market. He has a ton of fans in Paris and I talk to them quite often. I don't know though. I, I don't know if a stadium show can work there just yet. And part of the reason is because I do think that the market rewards in some ways, , those who try.[00:30:53] And while he's done a ton of podcasts, a ton of interviews, a ton of things, I can't say how much he's actually interacted with, you know, some of the French press andsome of the opportunities there. He did do something really cool, recently or, yeah, not too recently. where he did a like deep cuts performance for 300 fans and he just announced it on Twitter and folks got to go.[00:31:19] So I think he can work up to it just quantitatively. It might take longer than other markets.[00:31:27] Dan Runcie: Yeah, Paris was one that had in mind I think, those things you mentioned make sense. New York was another one too. Just given that MSG show and you have the MetLife stadium, I feel like like that could eventually happen.[00:31:39] Denisha Kuhlor: Yeah. Yeah. I think New York makes a lot of sense. It's pretty close to, obviously, you know, DC and Virginia, which also have big African populations. New Yorkers have seen him and know, someone who attended the MSG show. I really felt like there was like a sense of pride, like folks were really excited to be there, and to see this. And it definitely makes you feel like in events. And one that you could partake in multiple times for sure.[00:32:07] Dan Runcie: Right. And two, with this, we talked about his missed opportunities, but what do you think about the best opportunity or the best move that he has made so far in his career?[00:32:20] Denisha Kuhlor: Yeah, I think one consistency. He's been pretty consistent about releasing new music, whether it came to the album that he released during COVID, as well as his latest album now. There's definitely a strategy, I think, of always being focused or always looking ahead or being able to see what's next.[00:32:40] And so he's been able to use consistency through his own music, but also relevancy by jumping onto trends that are new, whether it's or not new. I feel like the Ima piano folks are gonna come at me for that. But,whether it's Amapiano, right? or Asake who really brought a new sound for folks.[00:32:59] So I think he's been able to do that really well. I think it was really intentional of his team. We've gotten to see, and not to compare Burna Boy to Ice Spice, but as consumers, I think so often, we see folks, do really well as a result of a breakout hit and have these expectations of them that don't necessarily correlate.[00:33:23] And it's actually been really great to watch an artist like Ice Spice or even a Little Nas X kind of come into their own when it comes to their performance and stage play overall. Whereas with him, I think he really got to build that methodically and, and over time, get comfortable on stage, see what works, what doesn't work, figure out the kinks of working with the band.[00:33:44] And so he's really, really been able to perfect and invest in his live show, which we're seeing dividends on now, while also maintaining just the consistency of new music and relevancy, which is quite d [00:33:57] Dan Runcie: Yeah, I think the Ice Spice is interesting because I was talking to someone about this a couple days ago and she had just put out her project, and I think it may be sold around like 15,000 units. And that of course sparked some discussion. And the thing is, it's hard to even frame something like that as a negative because six months ago, most of you didn't even know who this was, if we're [00:34:23] So we have the nature of the internet being able to help someone skyrocket into a different level. Almost overnight, and then just realizing that her team, everyone else has to catch up. It's a very different situation, like where Burna Boy is showing you that, yeah, it takes time to get to this point.[00:34:42] I mean, if he starts really releasing music, you know, early 2010s. By 2017, still doing small venues in New York. And then it really until, you know, a couple years later where you're being able to hit that. If you even get to that point, it's so hard. And I do think that live performances in the honest you command is one of the few things that can't quote unquote blow up overnight and it's, if anything is the more humbling thing that we see. I think streams can be somewhat humbling to some extent, as you've seen, but even that can be misleading. So it does at least ring true, and I think for me, I'd spoke about this earlier, but the thing about his career that I think is the best move for him was just continuing to position himself as the lead and not necessarily, you know, following the latest trend just to hop on it. Although I think he was smart about things, but not just trying to attach himself. I think he still had the brand there and it took longer than some may have, you know, wanted, or maybe even he saw himself, especially, I can only imagine, you know, it's 2015, you're doing this for a few years, things still bubbling.[00:35:53] So I do think that worked to his advantage cuz now it's really only a handful of artists globally that can say they're in that position. And then really his whole continent, you know, of the big three is at least the one that has the most exposure and platform in base right now.[00:36:09] Denisha Kuhlor: What did you think of? I feel his choice to embrace Artis from the west like his last two or three really, his last maybe three albums, you see like a really conscientious approach, whether he's had everyone from YG to Keilani, had Diddy executive produce an album, and that felt really intentional to reach, listenership or an audience from the westlike you said, it's probably tricky like if that went wrong, it could have really went wrong but in his case it seemed to go right, but I'm curious what you thought that. [00:36:43] Dan Runcie: Yeah. I think part of the reason why it worked is like, I feel like he picked artists that felt somewhat aligned with like what he was doing too like I, at least from what I read, I think the YG track may have potentially would've involved Nipsey, but you know, Nipsey had passed, so like that didn't work.[00:36:58] It's not as if he was just hopping on, you know, who is the hot single that like needs someone or like, you know, the Drake or whoever else. And not that I think with Drake is an issue, but because obviously is done and then Bad Bunny's continue to grow. But I feel like because he's like picking certain artists and maybe not every pick I necessarily, you know, thought was like his best music, but there seemed to be a ality with people that like lined up with him where it's like, okay, I've listened to enough why G'S music over the years?[00:37:28] I could see why someone like Burna Boy would want to do music with him, right? So I feel like for me, that piece of it did line up and I know that if you're trying to grow there, there's some inevitable push of who can I align myself with that isn't just trying to do the generic pop thing. Like I don't think I would ever hear him beyond a Maroon Five song, which I do feel kind of becomes like a bit of a rite of passage for a lot of, Western hop artists.[00:37:57] But I'd be very surprised if I ever saw Burna Boy.[00:38:01] Denisha Kuhlor: Yeah. No, that makes sense. That makes sense. [00:38:03] Dan Runcie: Yeah. the other thing that I think this conversation taps into is just the broader growth and the broader expansion of record labels and infrastructure in Africa from what the music industry to do and how Burna Boy's been able to help. In many ways, not just, I don't wanna say necessarily lead that because I think he's did a lot of this without the infrastructure.[00:38:26] If anything, the infrastructure has kind of started to come as a result of what he's done. But I've also heard a few rumblings from different folks that some of the investments of certain record labels, some of the majors having offices there, there's been questions about how they're seeing what's viable, what makes sense now because some of the artists that blew up, they don't have those artists on those labels, so now they're trying to find the next person and they're realizing that really hard to do that.[00:38:55] Denisha Kuhlor: Yeah. You know what's interesting, and I thought a lot about this is I feel like most artists on the continent don't necessarily need help on the continent. So much to our point of thinking about like Coachella, that was so surprising to Burna Boy because he was a huge star within Africa.[00:39:11] and when you look at the labels, he's engaged, for like a more global expansion. The thing I think he's been very clear of and his mother and the rest of his team is that like they've got Africa covered. And so I do think that could be part of the reason why maybe some of these labels are struggling because in a way it probably makes sense or the hunches to put more money or investment into what's already working, which is within Africa. When in reality I think it, it forces you to start to iterate and experiment on what's gonna resonate in terms of an artist, fans, an artist who has fans abroad, or them starting to build their broad audience.[00:39:53] And while an African audience it probably validates a lot of things, right? Maybe stage, presence, charisma, ability to connect, that the music is global or can reach people like it, that change or that shift. now being in the states or being in Europe is also quite different as well.[00:40:11] Denisha Kuhlor: And I think it forces labels to take a true A and R approach, whether it comes to everything from media training, Interacting, there's cultural differences. And so, I think it's going to lead way to maybe a new type of executive. it's something I thought a lot about music programs like the Music Business Academy,in Africa.[00:40:33] That's done really, really amazing work. I continue to be really, really impressed with the folks at Maven. And what their talent is doing, I think, for the African music ecosystem. But, with that being said, I think that the ecosystem is still getting to the point. where it's maturing, but also maturing in a way where folks can capitalize not only on the talent from the ecosystem, within Africa, but there being true connections, going both ways, because that's ultimately where the label will be able to recognize their power.[00:41:05] But for an artist that is already successful in some ways already getting Booked for shows. You look at, you know, where Tua Savage was by the time she got signed, or a DeVito by the time, he got signed abroad, they're already huge stars, which in some ways is different than what labels are used to signing in the States.[00:41:27] They, you know, would either find an artist and before invest the development in them or find an artist who's had maybe success digitally, but are working with them, on some of their more physical initiatives. So, I think it's interesting, but I also think it's a bit of a, different framework or thinking that some of these labels need to do in terms of the true maturity of the talent at the time they're being signed in some cases.[00:41:52] Dan Runcie: Yeah. When I heard rumblings that some of these record label offices that had recently started in Nigeria or elsewhere in Africa, that they were starting to question some of the future and the growth and things, I honestly wasn't that surprised because if you look at the way the record labels work in the US and at least currently they're working cause.[00:42:16] you have the Drake's and you have the Taylor's and the Adele's and Beyonces, and you've given them more favorable deals. But knowing that even if they more favorable deal, whatever share you get of that is still gonna make up for more than everything else. And that's gonna help your strategy in so many other ways.[00:42:33] Versus you're starting from scratch in a landscape where it's already harder to like develop someone from the ground up. And you're starting that without the Burna Boy without DeVito or without them, and now you're trying to find that person and you're trying to, you know, still do the investment. It's tough to get there because it took these folks so many years to get to that point.[00:42:55] So if you didn't start like a 10 year time horizon and you're have a bit of that, you know, more of a standard, okay, what has this person done for me lately? Do we keep this artist? Do we drop them? It isn't going to work in the same way. And we saw some of those same challenges, not even to this level happen.[00:43:12] 20 years ago when there were so many artists from Jamaica that were starting to blow up when reggae and reggae Fusion was really starting to be the wave when Sean Paul was doing his thing, and we didn't even get to that point where they were even trying to start the record label. There were issues with visas Yeah. Yes, and all. [00:43:31] Denisha Kuhlor: It doesn't just transfer. That's, you know, that's such a great point. Like I think in some ways people expect the success in the continent to like transfer almost smoothly when in reality a new type of work is just beginning. And that's the type of work that, you know, when you think about the office, the big office is looking for, right?[00:43:51] Because that's gonna produce quantitatively what they wanna see. and so in a way it can feel discouraging because you're like, wow, I have this artist, they've done this, this, and this. They're getting booked for shows here. Now we're going to Europe and we can't do a 500 person venue, but we just did a 5,001.[00:44:06] Dan Runcie: Yeah, it's gonna be fascinating to see how this develops, but before we close things out though, let's say five years from now, 2028, where's Burna Boy in his career, right? At that point, what is he doing?[00:44:18] Denisha Kuhlor: Yeah, I really, you know, I call it like a bit of the Jay-Z effect, but in some ways I see that for him, one clearly has an ear, not only for like developing talent, but also emerging talent, from, you know, a feature to Bnxn who assigned onto his label, but ended up not staying ended to, ask to leave the label, which I think is very interesting.[00:44:40] So I kind of wanna see if he focuses or hones more on also like developing talent innately his sister's also the creative director for his brand. I think too, we'll also will also see him play a role where he does a lot of fun things around fan engagements. he talked about in an interview that he's performed at so many venues and gotten to travel the world. And so he wants to take a really exciting approach in like performing on a train or kind of doing all these other like, cool fan experiences. So hopefully will he'll start to experiment with that as well.[00:45:20] Denisha Kuhlor: And it'd be interesting, but I think he might have the potential to be a really high touring artist for a long time. We see some artists that are just like, they can go on tour. It feels whenever they want, regardless of whether they have new music or not. And to some extent, I think that he just might be an artist that can command that.[00:45:42] and this has, you know, everybody's talking about, everybody's talking about catalogs nowadays, but as you think about how digitally Native Africa is, how young the population is. I'll be curious to see if he gets an offer he can't refuse. on the catalog side, there's more and more, places invest in content within Africa.[00:46:02] Denisha Kuhlor: It's only gonna increase, syncs the power of nostalgia as well. . Well, my hunch would be that he wouldn't sell, it wouldn't surprise me if we also saw him really structuring his business or his brand in, a way, that commands a high catalog price as well. [00:46:19] Dan Runcie: Yeah, when you're one of the biggest ones in this like wave and you're really reaching the height that others haven't reached before, you do have a bit of that advantage, right? Are able to this rise in a number of ways. So it's gonna be fascinating. I'm excited feel like at a minimum, what headline in Glastonbury feels like an inevitable thing, just given with things.[00:46:39] So yeah, I am eager to see how this all plays out. And who knows, maybe he'll be at Coachella again, and maybe he'll have the headline spot and at that point there's nowhere else to, you know, complain. Maybe we'll just have Burna Boy hyphen the African Giant and that'll be what's on the poster,[00:46:56] Denisha Kuhlor: Yes, I can literally see like just the African giants. I think that would be just such a moment, in the funniest way, like very reminiscent of Jay-Z, Jay-Z at Glastonbury, no. Yeah, it would be cool to see that all come full circle.[00:47:10] Dan Runcie: Definitely. Well, Denisha, this was awesome. Thanks again for making the time and making this happen[00:47:16] Denisha Kuhlor: Thanks so much for having me.[00:47:17] Dan Runcie: If you enjoyed this podcast, go ahead and share it with a friend. Copy the link, text it to a friend, post it in your group chat. Post it in your Slack groups. Wherever you and your people talk, spread the word. That's how capital continues to grow and continues to reach the right people. And while you're at it, if you use Apple Podcast, go ahead.[00:47:38] Rate the podcast, give it a high rating, and leave a review. Tell people why you like the podcast. That helps more people. Discover the show. Thank you in advance. Talk to you next week.
This week we are discussing the death of Army Pfc. Denisha Montgomery-Smith was a mother of three known for her headstrong and caring nature. Thank you to Margot with Military Murder for allowing us to collaborate on this episode. Check out the promo for the podcast Crimes and Cases today! NEW DATE AND TIME: February 15th at 7PM EST! Get tickets for our first Moment at www.moment.co/momsandmysteries Research by Haley Gray with Haley Gray Research. Thank you to our sponsors! Go to Grove.com/MM today to get a free starter set worth up to $50 with your first order. Plus, shipping is fast and FREE. Protect your family today with Fabric by Gerber Life. Apply today in just 10 minutes at meetfabric.com/MOMS. Policies issued by Western-Southern Life Assurance Company. Not available in certain states. Prices subject to underwriting and health questions. Get over 40% off your starter pack bundle with code MOMS at lumedeodorant.com. Stay focused on what's important to you with Noom Weight's psychology-based approach. Sign up for your trial today at Noom.com/MOMS. Listen and subscribe to Melissa's other podcast, Criminality!! It's the podcast for those who love reality TV, true crime, and want to hear all the juicy stories where the two genres intersect. Subscribe and listen here: www.pod.link/criminality Check-out Moms and Mysteries to find links to our tiktok, youtube, twitter, instagram and more! Make sure you subscribe and rate our show to help others find us! Last Thing Before We Go: Organizations to Support! DNA Doe Project https://dnadoeproject.org/ Bridegan foundation https://www.brideganfoundation.org/ Season of Justice: https://seasonofjustice.org/ PI For the Missing https://investigationsforthemissing.org/ Daniel Robinson https://pleasehelpfinddaniel.com/ Sources: https://epub.stripes.com/docs/MID_MID_071122/MID_MID_071122.pdf https://www.europeafrica.army.mil/ArticleViewPressRelease/Article/3127090/press-release-soldiers-death-under-investigation/ https://www.grassley.senate.gov/imo/media/doc/grassley_to_army_cid_-_denisha_montgomery.pdf https://www.newsnationnow.com/us-news/new-details-revealed-in-pfc-denisha-montgomerys-death/ https://www.newsnationnow.com/us-news/family-believes-woman-was-murdered-during-deployment/ https://www.wdrb.com/wdrb-investigates/we-want-the-truth-family-demands-answers-about-kentuckians-death-at-army-post-in-germany/article_6762e8de-4b02-11ed-9c94-83bb0f9284aa.html https://www.wjcl.com/article/fort-stewart-denisha-montgomery-soldier-death/40931880 https://www.wave3.com/2022/08/19/hardin-county-soldier-dies-during-overseas-deployment/ https://www.stripes.com/branches/army/2022-12-07/denisha-montgomery-congressional-inquiry-senator-grassley-8336537.html https://www.legacy.com/us/obituaries/name/denisha-montgomery-smith-obituary?id=36293793 Military Murder interview with Denisha's sister Brooke Brooke's TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@bbbrookeeeee Link to Tiktok showing Denisha's call with her family after her attack: https://www.tiktok.com/@bbbrookeeeee/video/7145448898742570283?_r=1&_t=8ZFLYgCC8f0 Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices
Follow Brooklyn's Crusade on TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@bbbrookeeeee When PFC Denisha Montgomery-Smith's family was notified that she died by suicide - they were immediately suspicious, because 21 days before Denisha's death - Denisha made a call back home and she asked them to record the video call. In the video, that took place on July 19, 2022, Denisha told her family she was assaulted while riding in a car with 4 other soldiers. One of the assailants was Denisha's roommate. Denisha vowed to report the assault, but was discouraged from reporting it to Army CID, because she would "get in trouble for defending herself." Feeling defeated, Denisha just wanted to return to the U.S. to be with her family. For the next several weeks, she kept to herself. And on the night of her death, Denisha video chatted with her husband and kids and nothing seemed amiss. Hours later, Denisha was hanging from her wall locker. Join Margot, as she tells you more about who Denisha was as a person before her death and the information that leads her family to believe Denisha was murdered. —— Ways to support your favorite podcast: Join My Patreon Family! Subscribe to Military Murder Premium on Apple Podcast! Rate/Review the Show! Tell a Friend about Military Murder —— Thanks to Today's Sponsors: June's Journey! Download “June's Journey” on the Apple App Store or Google Play! Fight Camp! Visit fightcamp.com/militarymurder to get a free heart rate monitor and jump rope with purchase! ----- Military Murder is a military true crime podcast that focuses on murders committed by military members, veterans, and sometimes their family members. ---- Follow on social: YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@mamamargot TikTok: https://tiktok.com/@militarymargot Instagram: http://www.instagram.com/militarymurderpodcast Discussion Group: https://facebook.com/groups/militarytruecrime Email: militarymurderpodcast@gmail.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices
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