Podcasts about hey chris

After working on his own using his experience in the agency world, Chris started specializing in the project management side of the business. Eventually, he decided to form Genius Digital Marketing with a partner and they have been growing ever since. Now, they work with growth-focused companies to accelerate their digital marketing strategies by operating results-driven campaigns. He talks a bit about how to make the jump from being a freelancer to having his own agency, how breaking sales and breaking operations is a normal part of growth, and how sales fix everything. 3 Golden Nuggets Making the jump. Like so many agency owners, Chris worked in the agency world for a while before deciding that he could do the job on his own. After working together on some projects, he and his partner decided to "make it legit" and he went from freelancer to agency owner. By this point, he knew that his expertise was on the project management side of the equation and was clear about what he was bringing to the table and how his partner complemented that, which made the transition a logical next step. Sales fix everything. You never want to talk about losing a client. But if you can just get more sales, then you can afford more people and you can afford to potentially lose something. It's about being confident in trying new things while you grow. Sales will fix everything while you solve your next bubble of growth. Don't be afraid to increase prices. Sales will fix everything, yes. But don't forget to raise your prices. Bringing on more sales, you're going to have to bring on more levels, more people. And if you do that and don't raise prices, you may find out at the end of the year that you worked a lot more and still earned less.  Sponsors and Resources Agency Dad: Today's episode is sponsored by Agency Dad. Agency Dad is an accounting solution focused on helping marketing agencies make better decisions based on their financials. Check out agencydad.money/freeaudit to get a phone call with Nate to assess your agency's financial needs and how he can help you. Subscribe Apple | Spotify | iHeart Radio | Stitcher | Radio FM Keep Growing While Sales Bring New Opportunities Jason: [00:00:00] What's up, everybody? Jason Swenk here and I got another exciting episode about how an agency owner went from freelancer to bringing on a partner to a thriving agency. So it's a really good episode and I hope you enjoy it. Hey Chris, welcome to the show. Chris: [00:00:26] Hey, Jason. How's it going, man? Jason: [00:00:27] Yeah, man. Excited to have you on, um, and, uh, talk about, you know, your journey as a freelancer to agency owner, to, you know, successful agency owner. So tell us a little bit about who you are and what do you do? Chris: [00:00:41] Yeah, sure. So, uh, my name's Chris. I work out of, uh, our office here in, uh, the Dallas area. And, uh, I didn't always live here, actually. I just moved here six months ago. And the reason I moved here was, is for this business and for this partnership. I had been living in Las Vegas before that it's kind of where I'm from and where I grew up. But, uh, Aaron and I, Aaron's my business partner, we formed an agency about a year and a half ago. And have been working on the agency this whole time, you know, kind of forming the partnership, getting all the business stuff going, and earning clients and new business. And, uh, eventually it got to the point where we were like, hey, you know, let's actually own a building. Actually, we bought a building and let's run our, our office out of the Dallas area. That's where he lives, where his family's at. And I moved down here. So, um, yeah, that was about, you know, like I said, about six months ago and you know, we've been, we've been doing pretty good work since then. So it's exciting times, you know, moving around doing different stuff and trying to grow the agency and, and deal with all those hurdles and, and having fun while doing it. Jason: [00:01:46] Yep. What, uh…? Kind of take us back kind of… what made you think about transitioning? Cause there's, you know, we have, uh, quite a bit of probably, I would guess, you know, freelancers that listen to the show that want to go into creating an agency one day. Um, where were you at? Like in like going well, let's, let's make this legit. Let's, you know, let's kind of like, let's start hiring people. It's like bring on a partner. Where were you at? Chris: [00:02:18] Yeah, sure. Great, great question. Um, you know, we were… Well, I was, recently out of the agency world. I had worked for a couple of different marketing agencies, a few different people. And realized that, you know, I could do all this stuff on my own and, you know, get to keep all the money as opposed to splitting it with somebody else or only getting paid a commission or something like that. So I, I did, I did freelance for a couple of years after, uh, my agency world. You know, it got to the point where you kind of start to feel like you've niched up a little bit. You have a few little bits of expertise and mine was kind of the project management side of the equation. I was really good at coordinating efforts. I was really good at finding, you know, subcontractors to do certain bits of work. Uh, Aaron had actually been one of those people. So I had a client that needed, you know, really expert level paid search management. And that was not me. Um, I've gotten better as a result of working with Aaron, but, uh, that was not me. So I actually contracted him and he does a fantastic job. And I was like hey, man, I have other projects that I need help with. You should totally check these out. And we, uh, kind of just kept working together. And he did the same for me. So it was like, hey, you know, I have a few projects where coordination is really needed. Uh, you know, why don't you hop over here? And we started communicating with each other's clients. It kind of happened, you know, by osmosis. But the problem we were running into is scale. You can only do so much as an individual and you want to try to make more money and you want to try and scale and have more freedoms and the more and more we talked, you know, our answer to that scale problem was hey, why don't we work together? You know, we'll both kind of champion these different sides of the business. And, you know, if we need to subcontract that more, we will. But then, you know, we have a brand we can put behind, it will look more official. We'll have a couple of people, maybe we'll spin up a website and we'll earn more business that way just by kind of pretending to be an agency, so to speak. And then it became, hey, this is actually working. You know, if people are buying into what we're doing, hey, we need to hire someone. Let's do that. And then when you start hiring people, you actually have to legit, you have to file with the state and, and all that stuff. So, uh, we went down that road and, um, it's been working. So it's just been kind of a road of, hey, if it keeps working, let's keep doing it. Jason: [00:04:31] What's been like, if you could look back at last year, right? Like as you guys were getting going and that kind of stuff, what was the main focus of starting the agency that you felt like you had to kind of get over? Chris: [00:04:49] Um, I mean the main focus, you know, big thing we've had hurdles with is like delegation. You know, feeling that you don't have to do everything and, you know, trying to be okay with that. So, you know, getting tasks out, trusting that, you know, there's somebody else that can do some of that stuff. Uh, really operational, you know, internal things are challenging. Because you have a relationship with a client. And if you come from the freelance world, you're everything to that person. You're the relationship. You're the fulfillment, you know, you're the invoicing person, you know, you're, you're everything with that. And it's almost like your, your children or your pets or something like that and dealing with. So, trying to step away from that and focus on like, you know, what your true expertise is inside of the team is, is a challenging bit. I think it's, it's oftentimes overlooked a little bit. But once you break through that, then, you know, scale comes a lot more easy because now you're doing your thing and other team members are doing other things. And, uh, that was a big part of it. Also, you know, earning business was, uh, was a tricky thing too. Um, because you know, we're lean, right? So you don't have a ton of money to be advertising and, uh, you have to try to really leverage your relationships and try to make that stuff work. I mean, I can't tell you how many Upwork, uh, you know, proposals I've put out in my lifetime. It's, it's an ungodly amount and same with Aaron that you grind up, you earn new business, you earn your relationships and then those roll into other relationships. Then you, you know, be part of cool groups like, you know, uh, the one we're a part of where you learn even more tricks and tactics and strategies, which is cool. Jason: [00:06:32] As an agency owner, it's hard to know when you have to make those big decisions. And I remember needing advice for thinking like hiring or firing or reinvesting. And, you know, when can I take distributions without hurting the agency? You know, we're excellent marketers, but when it comes to agency finances like bookkeeping, forecasting, or really organizing, you know, our financials data, most of us are really kind of a little lost. And that's why my friend Nate created Agency Dad specifically to solve these exact problems. You know, at Agency Dad, they help agency owners handle the financial part of their agency so they can focus on what they're really good at. Nate has spent years learning the ins and outs of agency business. He understands everything from how to structure your books, to improving the billing process and really managing your financial efficiencies. Agency Dad will show you how to use your financial data to make the key decisions. You know, from making your agency more successful and most importantly, more profitable. If you want to know how your agency finances stack up to the rest of the industry, Agency Dad can tell you, you know, how to do that. A lot of my listeners have already gotten their free audit from Agency Dad. And if you haven't yet, go to agencydad.money/freeaudit before August 30th and get your free financial metrics audit. Also, just for smart agency listeners, find out how to get your first month of bookkeeping or dashboarding and consulting for free. It's time to clean up your agency, finances and listen to dad. Go to agencydad.money/freeaudit. That's agencydad.money/freeaudit. Yeah, I look at it as kind of, as you're starting the agency, that really the main focal point is. Because you have to get to a point where you can actually afford people a lot of times. And I look at it as you need to focus entirely on lead gen and converting sales. Then I look at, you know, then, then you get to a point where… and, and tell me if you guys have gone through this, where now marketing and the lead gen or the, I like to kind of say, especially in the very beginning, you're creating this automated lead generation, right? You have this pipeline coming to you. And then you have to start going, man, I can't handle all these sales calls. I can't handle, you know, the follow-up. You know, like literally marketing's breaking sales. And, and I, I find like, as you kind of keep going up, you know… marketing's job is to break sales. And then sales' jobs is to break operations. Then your job as like the owner is really to kind of fix the stuff that the teams are breaking constantly. And it's a constant like, boom, boom, boom, boom. Because as you just keep going up and up, you know, what got you, there is not going to, you know, get you to, to the next part. Have you guys found that yet? Chris: [00:09:39] Yeah. So, you know, it's something we, we deal with constantly, you know. You have to have the pipe running and you have to have, uh, new opportunities coming through. And, you know, I was in sales for a long time and sales really do fix everything. It's kind of the motto is if you can just get more sales then you can afford more people and you can afford to potentially lose something. And you never really want to talk about losing a client. But, you know, it's always a fact of, uh, running an agency and being in the industry is that, you know, you, you lose clients and it hurts when you don't have a pipe coming, you know, feeding new opportunity. It hurts worse. So if you can have sales coming in and the potential loss, because maybe something wasn't fully optimized, somebody didn't have the time to move to something or, you know, you know, something, the relationship just didn't work out. Or you have a toxic relationship that you've been hanging on to because you need it. Now you have the confidence to say, well, you know, I don't have to spend my time there. I can, I have confidence in the pipe. And, uh, that's like really the key. So we're actively in that process right now and trying to optimize the funnel. A lot of our growth has been because of our relationships and our ability to kind of grow those clients and do more work in those areas or get referrals. Uh, you know, so the pipe now. Like a lot of my focus actually is on that right now. So we have things we're going to try to bring those in and it's working, you know, and sales will fix everything and then we'll solve our, our next big bubble of, of growth. Jason: [00:11:07] Yeah. Yeah. The, and the, the big thing I find is pricing. And so a lot of times you go, well, let's just do more sales. But we don't think about raising the prices and increasing the pricing and looking at going, well, if we bring on more sales, we're going to have to bring on more levels, more people. And so they bring on more people, but they didn't raise their price. And then at the end of the year, you look back and you're like, holy cow, I made less than I did last year. And we actually were. Chris: [00:11:40] You did more work. Jason: [00:11:42] Yeah. We were bigger, we did more work. Like… I'm so confused. And it really comes, you know, to the pricing and, and that's one of the easiest things. I find that when agencies really can kind of get from one level to the next level. I look at it as kind of like climbing a mountain, right? Like you got base camp, and then you get like the climbing level, and then you get to the crux, and then you get to the crust. And then the summit. You know, most people kind of, as they're building and climbing, they're not laying the right foundation or putting kind of the safety nets on, in order to hold you up because, you know. It just like, I remember I went through this many times and maybe you're going through this now. It seems like, were like, you'll self-sabotage yourself in sales because, you know, uh, and this is why you need to bring on a salesperson. Because they don't care about operations. They just they're like, I just want to sell. But you're, psychologically as the owner of the agencies actually selling you're going, holy cow, I don't know, like I don't want to break operations. But it's a natural progression. You've got like when you're working out, you're constantly breaking down the muscle in order for it to rebuild. And you know, in the very beginning, I look at turnover as a good thing because your original clients are not going to be your, you know, probably the clients for you in the next couple years. Do you see that as well? Chris: [00:13:08] Yeah, you kind of have to run before you walk in a sense, you know, bring people on and break operations. I think that's a great way to put it, uh, cause you, you have to force yourself into that position. Even though, you know, it's not going to be comfortable. And it goes back to the pipe too, is having confidence that there's going to be another opportunity. And I think that relates to the sales thing as well is, is that you can be confident in the pricing and the higher pricing you need to be charged. Even if that person says, no, you're confident you have another opportunity. That's going to happen soon so that you can afford to be picky and say, look, but this is what we charge. And by the way, when you have more team members in your, your, you know, having a more robust team, you're doing better work, you're providing a better service. So you should charge more for that service. It's not just you individually. And hopefully, by this point, you've learned a lot and you've become, you know, an expert in your field. You should be charging more for that because it's, it's value. And that's one of the, that's another really big hurdle we've faced over our start here is pricing. What we were charging a year ago for services is not even close to what we're charging now. I mean, we joke about all the time. If you remember, when we used to just be happy for like 500 bucks a month? You know, for a client now, it's like no way we would even, we wouldn't even be in the room to talk to that person for that much. It's, you know, it's, it's not really an ego thing as much of it as like a recognizing that you really do have value and you really do provide a great service. And having confidence in that. Jason: [00:14:36] That's awesome. This has all been amazing. Is there anything I didn't ask you that you think would benefit the audience? Chris: [00:14:44] Um, no. I would just say, you know, keep at it, you know. If you are one of those freelancers that's trying to grind up, you know. There is light at the end of the tunnel and there are plenty of niches out there for you to find something to work on. There's lots of problems to solve. So keep at it. Uh, keep listening to Jason because he's full of great info. Jason: [00:15:01] Aww, thanks so much for coming on the show. What's the website people can go and check the agency out? Chris: [00:15:07] Yeah. So we're Genius Digital Marketing. The website is geniusdm.com. Jason: [00:15:13] Awesome. Well, thanks so much for coming on the show. You guys, uh, you provided tons of value to, uh, you know, our listeners. If you guys enjoyed this episode and you really want to kind of step up your game in your agency and really understand what exactly you need to focus on, what are the systems in place? Or what are the systems that you need to actually build in your agency to actually get to the next level and to get underway where the whole business is not depending on you. My whole goal is for you not to be, you know, in the business. I want you to work on the business and if that's the case, I want you guys to check out the agency playbook. So go to jasonswenk.com/playbook. Request the invite to it and we'll break down the eight systems for you to go check out. And until next time have a Swenk day.

Welcome to another special episode format we call Hey Chris. We take listener submitted questions and make Chris answer them on the spot. No reading them ahead of time. No preparation. No time to think. Just a candid conversation between Chris Do and Greg Gunn. In this episode we answer four unique questions about topics like how to apply value based pricing (and when not to), positioning your business, whether to spend your time learning or doing, and and how to find your purpose. Have a question for Chris? Visit thefutur.com/heychris and ask away. This episode is sponsored by Storyblocks - https://www.storyblocks.com/futur Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

On this edition of Throw Up Tackle, the guys discuss the greatness of Giannis, the Olympics, The Lox vs Dipset and more. Check out the full episode wherever you listen to podcasts and http://gobradionetwork.com Find out where to follow, subscribe and listen to more Throw Up Tackle and The GOB Radio Network at https://linktr.ee/throwuptackle Throw Up Tackle is The GOB Radio Network's sports and hip hop program. It's a blend of sports, pop culture and hip hop featuring different perspectives on your favorite games, passionate discussions about your favorite teams and no regard for the feelings and opinions of others. Hosted by THE! Mario Washington of The Good Ole Boys Radio Show The DOK of The Unemployment Line and Littlejohn, the show can be heard weekly on The GOB Radio Network. Like us on Facebook at https://www.facebook.com/gobradionetwork Follow us on Twitter at https://twitter.com/gobradionetwork Follow us on Instagram at https://www.instagram.com/gobradionetwork/

Chris Fedor and Hayden Grove discuss the two Cavaliers playing for Team USA head of the 2021 Olympics, before Fedor answers questions from fans. See acast.com/privacy for privacy and opt-out information.

Chris Fedor and Hayden Grove break down Koby Altman's latest press conference following the Cleveland Cavaliers' 2020-2021 season and take questions from fans for a live version of "Hey, Chris!" See acast.com/privacy for privacy and opt-out information.

On this week's episode, Chris and Steph share a speedy step to restart your rails server and chat about accessibility improvements and favorite a11y tools. They also dive into a tale of database switching and delight in a new Rails query method that returns orphaned records. Restart Rails server via tmp/restart.txt (https://twitter.com/christoomey/status/1387799863929212931?s=20) WebAIM: Constrast Checker (https://webaim.org/resources/contrastchecker/) IBM Equal Access Accessibility Checker (https://www.ibm.com/able/toolkit) axe™ DevTools (https://www.deque.com/axe/browser-extensions/) AccessLint (https://accesslint.com/) Assistiv Labs (https://assistivlabs.com/) An introduction to macOS Head Pointer (https://thoughtbot.com/blog/an-introduction-to-macos-head-pointer) Rails date_select (https://api.rubyonrails.org/classes/ActionView/Helpers/DateHelper.html#method-i-date_select) Rails strong_migrations (https://github.com/ankane/strong_migrations) Ruby RBS (https://github.com/ruby/rbs) Sorbet - Ruby Type Checker (https://sorbet.org/) Scout APM (https://scoutapm.com/) Rails 6.1 adds query method missing to find orphan records (https://blog.saeloun.com/2020/01/21/rails-6-1-adds-query-method-missing-to-find-orphan-records.html) Transcript: STEPH: People put microphones in front of us. That is their fault, not ours. We just show up. Hello and welcome to another episode of The Bike Shed, a weekly podcast from your friends at thoughtbot about developing great software. I'm Steph Viccari. CHRIS: I'm Chris Toomey. STEPH: And together, we're here to share a bit of what we've learned along the way. Hey Chris, happy Friday. CHRIS: Happy Friday. STEPH: How's your week been? CHRIS: It's been great. I did something that is wildly overdue, but I got a new chair and one day in. But it's also a very familiar chair because it's basically the same -- I think it's the same model as we had at the thoughtbot office. And it's nice to have a chair that is reasonable. And I think my old chair was maybe ten years old or something, deeply embarrassing and absurd like that for such a critical piece of infrastructure in my house. STEPH: I mean, I guess depending on if it's a good chair. I don't know what the lifespan is of a good chair. [laughs] CHRIS: I would not describe it as such. STEPH: [laughs] CHRIS: I think it was like $100 at Staples. It was a fine chair. It served me well for many years. I'm very slow and cautious with what I consider to be large-scale purchases. I hate the idea of having a thing that I've spent a bunch of money on, but I don't actually like. And these are very solvable problems. But I just tend to drag my feet and over-research and do all those sorts of things. And so finally I was just like, nope, we're going to get a chair, got a chair. Cool. Now I have a chair, and it's good. It's got all of the adjustments, which is what makes it very nice. I'd say Steelcase Leap is the model for anyone that's interested. STEPH: That's funny. I tend to do the same thing. I tend to drag my feet until I get desperate enough that then I'm forced to make a decision and buy something. I do have an oddly specific question. Do you like chairs with or without the arms? CHRIS: Oh, with the arms. STEPH: Really? CHRIS: Yeah. STEPH: I am team, no arms. CHRIS: Where do your arms go if there are no arms to put on the chair? STEPH: They're always on my lap or on my keyboard. So I just don't rest them on the armrest. CHRIS: Interesting. I feel like that would put -- I've definitely had small bouts of RSI strain fatigue in my forearms. And so I'm very purposeful with how I'm bracing my wrists. I have a little wrist rest that I put my hands on when I'm using my keyboard because the keyboard is slightly raised up because I have a nonsense mechanical keyboard, of course. STEPH: Delightful, not nonsense. CHRIS: Yeah, I love it. I would never trade that in, but I have to make it work and not actually sacrifice my body for a clackety keyboard. [chuckles] But yeah, I think I need some more support for my arms; otherwise, there's too much pressure on my wrists, and things are breaking at weird angles, and that's been my experience. I'm intrigued by the free-flying no arms on the chair approach that you're talking about. This particular model has nine degrees of freedom on the armrest. So I'm able to bring them in and forward and at the exact right height so that they perfectly meet my arm where it would naturally be, and that seems good. That seems like the thing that I want. STEPH: That makes a lot of sense. But yeah, I'm team no arms. Every time I have them, I can't get them at the right comfortable spot. And I like the freedom of where I can quickly get up and out of my chair and not have arms in the way, which sounds like a very small improvement in my life, but yet it's what I want. CHRIS: I just like the idea of you sitting there and being like, I need to be able to make a quick escape at any moment; who knows what's going to happen? And I need to be able to run the other way. STEPH: If there's a gnarly bug, I got to be able to run. I can run away quickly as possible. [laughs] CHRIS: But in other news, so yeah, new chair that's great. I also recently embraced something in the Rails world that I have known about I think for forever for the entire time that I've worked in Rails, but I've never really used it, which is the tmp/restart.txt file, which my understanding of it is if you touch that file, or if that file exists, Rails will recognize that and will restart the server in development mode. And I think I've always known about this, but I've never used it. And I recognized recently that either I was trying to use a gem that I'd added to the Gemfile, but my server didn't know about it. So I was going to do the thing that I normally do, which is kill the server and then restart the server so CTRL+C and then CTRL+P in my terminal and hit enter, and then wait a bunch of minutes and get distracted, all of the bad things there. And I was like, wait; I remember that there's a thing here. And I don't know why I haven't been doing this for years. It's so much better. I actually went the one step further, and I configured a tmux binding so that tmux prefix and then R will touch tmp/restart in the local directory of the tmux session. That's been very nice, I will say. So I keep moving between branches. And I have environment variables that I need to reload or config initializers that I've made a change to, and I want to load that in. Or a gem that I've added to the Gemfile and I've now installed, but the server doesn't know about. All of these are just so quick now. And why wasn't I doing this the whole time? STEPH: I saw that you mentioned this on Twitter a couple of days ago, and I was so excited. But at the moment, I bookmarked it for later, but I didn't have time to actually really check it out. And I'm so glad you're bringing it up because I actually just tried it while we're chatting. So I started up my Rails server, and then I did the touch tmp/restart, and this is amazing. This is awesome. I'm very excited. CHRIS: It just does the thing. STEPH: It just does the thing. CHRIS: Yeah, it's so nice. [laughter] STEPH: Yeah, this is fabulous, almost as good as the pending migrations button. Not quite because that's a very special button, but this is also up there. CHRIS: It's a very, very good button. [laughs] I really got very enthusiastic about that button, didn't I? But I stand by it. It's a very good button, and this is a very good file. But this file has existed for so much longer, this workflow. And so many times, I have restarted the server and have been annoyed that I had to do it. And my brain just had this answer available. I didn't read a blog post and relearn this thing. I've always known it. And it was this one particular time that my brain was like, "Hey, you know how we're always annoyed by having to restart the server? You know there's another answer, right? I know that you know it because I'm your brain, and I'm telling you this." [chuckles] This is my weird internal monologue. So I'm very happy to be on the other side of that and to share that with as many people as possible who may be, like me, know about this but haven't actually leaned into it, small things that make the Rails world very nice. STEPH: Well, I'm glad you internalized it and then surfaced it because this is not something that I had heard of before. So I'm very appreciative of it. This is going to be great. CHRIS: Happy to share the wealth. But yeah, that's some of the stuff that's been up in my world. What's been going on in your world? STEPH: It's been a rather busy week. Most of that week has been focused on improving the accessibility of existing pages and forms, which is an area that I don't get to spend a lot of time, but each time I do, I really would like to be a pro when it comes to accessibility. Well, that's probably a long journey to become a pro. I would like to become more knowledgeable in terms of accessibility because it is so important. And while working specifically on these accessibility tickets and improvements, I've discovered a few helpful tools that I figured I'd share here. So one of the tools that I've started using is a color contrast tool. It's created by WebAIM or web accessibility in mind. And a number of our headers in our application have a white font that's on a background color, and we were getting warnings that this isn't very accessible and that there's not enough contrast. So with the Contrast Checker, you can provide the foreground color and the background color, and then it's going to tell you that contrast ratio. So if you're wondering, well, what's a good ratio? That's a great question. And the W3C Accessibility Guidelines recommend a contrast ratio of 4:5:1 for normal texts and 3:1 for larger texts. Larger text is anything that's typically around 18 px, 18.5 px, or larger. So the color contrast tool has been really helpful because then that's been very easy that we give the blue that we're using, and then we can just darken it a bit to improve that contrast. And then we apply that everywhere throughout the app. The other tool that I've been using that I'm really excited about it's a browser extension called the IBM Equal Access Accessibility Checker. Is that something you've heard of or used before? CHRIS: I have not heard of that. STEPH: I would love to know what you currently use for accessibility, and I'll circle back to that in just a moment. But for this particular browser extension, I'm pretty sure they have it for multiple browsers. I'm using Chrome. So I've installed the Chrome extension. Once you have it installed, you can open up the browser console and then tell it to scan the page that you're on. And then it generates a really helpful report that has all the high-level offenses, which are called violations. It also has warnings and recommendations. And then if you click on a specific issue, then the right-hand area shows a detailed description of the offending HTML, what's wrong, why it's important, which I really appreciate that part, and then a couple of examples of how to fix it. So it's been a really nice way as we are working to improve the accessibility of form. We actually have feedback to know that we are making progress and that we are improving the accessibility of that particular page. And then circling back, I'm curious, do you have any particular tools that you use when it comes to improving accessibility or any standards that you tend to follow? CHRIS: Yeah, this is a very apropos question. I'm working on a new project now, and accessibility is definitely something that I want to consider on every project, but it's all the more so important for this particular project, or it's something that we're, as a team, collectively really embracing early on and wanting it to be a core focus of how we're building out the application. That said, I will say that I'm accessibility aware but far from an expert and still very much learning. But some of the things that I have used are the axe DevTools. I forget what the acronym actually stands for there, but we can certainly include a link in the show notes. But those are DevTools that allow you to, I think, do some color contrast checking actually in the browser just right there, which is really nice. There's also AccessLint, which is a project that scans pull requests and, where possible, does static analysis of the HTML. And that's actually by some former thoughtboters. So it's always nice to have that in the reference. There's actually a new tool that I've been looking at. I haven't actually tried it out yet, but it's from a company called Assistiv Labs, Assistiv without an E interestingly at the end. But their tool is, as far as I can tell, it allows you to use screen readers and other tools but across various platforms so that you sort of turn on -- It's very similar to if you've ever used an emulated Internet Explorer session because you're working on not an Internet Explorer machine, but you want to make sure your site works in Internet Explorer, same sort of idea, I believe. But it allows you to do the same approach for accessibility. So using a screen reader or using what the native accessibility technologies are on various platforms and being able to test across a wide range of things. So that's definitely one that I'm going to be exploring more in the near future. And beyond that, there are a handful of static analysis-based tools that I've used. So Svelte actually has some built-in stuff around accessibility. Because they are a compiler, they can do some really nice things there, and I really appreciate that that is a fundamental concern that they've built into the language, and the framework, and the compiler, and all of that. And I've also used ESLint A11y, which is the acronymnified version of the word accessibility. But that again, static analysis, so it can only go so far. And unfortunately, accessibility is one of those things that's hard to get at from a static analysis point of view, but it's still better than nothing. And it allows you to have a first line of defense at the code as you're authoring it. So that's a smattering of things. I've used some of them. I'm interested in others of them. But this is definitely an area that I'm going to be exploring a bunch more in the near future. STEPH: I like that you brought in the static analysis tools because that's the other thing that's been on my mind as we're making these accessibility improvements; that's been great. And we can run this particular browser extension to then check for warnings or issues on the page but then looking out for regressions is on my mind. Or as we're introducing new pages and new forms, how do we make sure that those are up to standard if someone forgets to run that extension? So I really like the idea of -- There's AccessLint that you mentioned, which will then scan PRs for accessibility improvements. That sounds really great. I'm also intrigued if there's a way to also -- I don't know if maybe tests are a good way to also look for any sort of regressions in terms of changes that we've made to a page. I don't know what those tests would look like. So I'll have to think on that some more, but I think some people at thoughtbot have thought about it. CHRIS: My understanding is the testing library suite of testing frameworks, so it's like testing library React, testing library, et cetera. It's primarily used in the JavaScript world, although there is Cypress, which is more of a browser-level automation. But it fundamentally works from not exactly an accessibility but a -- It doesn't allow you to do DOM selectors. It really tries to hide that. And it says, "No, no, no. You're not going to be digging in and finding the class name of this thing because guess what? A user of your application can't do that." What we want are – Typically, it's like find by label or find by things that are accessibility available or just generally available to users of your application. So whether it's users that are just clicking around or if they're using any sort of assistive technology, the testing library framework forces you in that direction. You can't write a test if your code is inaccessible tends to be the way it plays out, and it really nudges you in that direction. So it's one of the things that I really love about that. And I actually miss it when I'm working in a Capybara test suite because, as far as I know, there is not a Capybara testing library variant of it. And really, at the end of the day, it's just a bunch of functions to allow you to select within the context of the page. But again, it does it from that standpoint, and I'm all about that. STEPH: Yeah, that's really nice. That's a good point. Yeah, I don't think Capybara has that explicitly. I know that you have to use specific parameters. Like, if you want to access something on the page that is hidden, that's not something you can just do easily. You have to specify: I'm looking for an element that is hidden on the page. But otherwise, I don't think it goes out of its way to prevent you from doing that. There is an article that this conversation about accessibility made me think of. There's a really fun blog post written by Eric Bailey, who has been or who is a champion of accessibility at thoughtbot and has written a lot of great content around making the web more accessible. And in addition to publishing with the thoughtbot blog post, he has written for a number of publications. And the article that comes to mind that he published on the thoughtbot blog posts is An Introduction to macOS Head Pointer, and we'll link to it in the show notes. But he does a great job walking through what the head pointer is on macOS and then how to use it. And he uses his eyebrows to essentially move the mouse and then click on certain buttons or click on certain links on the screen. And it's incredible. So if you need a little bit of accessibility and joy in your life, I highly recommend checking out that article. CHRIS: Yeah. Eric has absolutely just been such a fantastic champion of accessibility. And he's definitely someone that I think of constantly as being -- I think he's involved with the Accessibility Project. He writes on CSS Tricks. He's around the internet just being the hero we need because accessibility is such a critical thing. And I'm a deep believer in the idea that accessible applications are better for everyone. And I so appreciate the efforts that he's putting in out there. Thanks, Eric. STEPH: Thanks, Eric. And then, on a slightly separate note, I have a slight complaint that I'd like to file. And this one is with Rails specifically. And I'm filing this complaint with the understanding that I'm also very spoiled in terms of Rails does so much, and I'm very appreciative of how much Rails does for me and for us. But specifically, while working on accessibility for a date of birth form field, so it's a form field with three different selects, so you have your month, day, and year. And while creating this, there's a very helpful Rails method that's called date_select, where then you can generate all three of those select fields. And you can even specify the order in which you want them generated, but this particular function doesn't have a way to make it accessible. So you can generate a label for each option that's in the select dropdown. And there's no parameter. There's nothing you can pass through. It doesn't automatically generate it for you. So I was in a spot where I was updating a form that's using the Rails dateselect. I can't use dateselect and make an accessible dropdown selection for date of birth. So instead, what I had to do is I had to split it out. I had to move away from using dateselect, and instead, I'm using selectmonth and then selectday and selectyear because from there, I then can pass in; in my case, I'm using aria-label to provide a label because I don't actually want the label to show up on a screen, which could be another accessibility concern because we do have the birth date label for those three sections. But then we still want at least each text field to have a label, even if it's only visible to screen readers. So then that way, if someone is selecting from year, they understand they're selecting from year or for month they're selecting from month. So by using selectyear and selectday and selectmonth, I could specify the aria-label as month, day, or year, but I couldn't do that with the dateselect. And I just realized that there's probably a number of date of birth forms out there that aren't accessible because us Rails developers are leveraging this existing method. So it just seems like a really good opportunity to improve date_select to be able to pass in a label or generate one automatically. CHRIS: Wow. I'm surprised that's the state of the art that we're currently at. I really wonder if there have been conversations or if there are fundamental limitations because I'd be surprised if such a core piece of the Rails world someone hadn't brought this up in the issues. What's the story there? Because I'm guessing there's a story there. Although flipping it around, I wonder -- I've never loved that input sequence; as an aside, like three different selects, that's not how I think of my birthday. My birthday is one thing. It's not three things that we smash together. But I wonder are we at a point now where IE 11 usage is so small that we can use a native date_select input and then have a polyfill -- And then I start to trail off because I don't know what the story is for. Like, I think Safari doesn't do a great job, and I forget where it's at right now. And what about mobile Safari? And wouldn't it be nice if everything was just easy and everybody kept up? [laughter] But that's an aside. But yeah, that's part of my question here, is like, can we just not use that thing at all? Like, the three select dropdown version of picking a date of birth because, man, that's my least favorite way to do it. STEPH: Yeah. I'm with you. I'm also curious if there is a story behind this and also if anyone has a different opinion, and I'd love to hear it. Because this has been my experience in digging through the docs is I would date_select, and I could not find a way to pass in a label or have one generated to make it accessible. So then that prompted me to use the three different methods, which, by the way, is fine. It made me stop and pause to think this is the method that most people recommend the usage of in terms of creating those three different select fields for a date of birth or for any particular date that you're supplying; it does not have to be a date of birth. So it also surprised me that then we couldn't make it accessible. So yeah, I was a bit miffed in the moment. [laughter] I had to walk myself back and be like, well, if I want to make the world a better place, I should help make the world a better place. And that started with changing the code in this codebase. But then also it means looking into Rails to see if there's an improvement that I could help with there. CHRIS: This is what we do: we take our moments of miffed, and we turn them into positive action in the world. This is what we want to see. [chuckles] STEPH: I figure the least I can do is share a blog post or something on Twitter that shows what it was before and then using the new dateselect functions because that is reasonable, although working with a form is a bit different. It got a little tricky there in terms of making sure that each value for each select field is still being passed within the expected nested parameter. And some of that was available in the public API for selectyear and select_day, but it's not as well documented. So I'm like, well, this seems to be intentionally public, but it's not documented, so I feel a little nervous about using this. Yeah, that's it. I just wanted to share my annoyance with Rails [laughs] or the fact that it made me work so hard to have a date of birth field. CHRIS: You joke, but that's a lot of why we use Rails is because we want these common regular things that we're doing to be as easy as possible, to require as little code on our part as possible but also this sort of thing like there's a lot of subtlety and stuff. Accessibility is one of those things that I want a framework that has security, and accessibility, and ease of use, and all of these things just baked in, so I don't have to think about it every time. It turns out having a date of birth, or generically any date field, is going to come up in web applications a lot, it turns out. And so having all of that stuff covered is frankly what I expect of a framework like Rails. So I'm totally on board with your being miffed here. STEPH: Yeah. Those are all really valid points. So I'm with you. What else has been up in your week? CHRIS: Well, we've been leading up to this, I think, for many weeks. I did a Rails 6.0 upgrade a while back, and a big reason for that was partly just to get on the current version of Rails but also because I wanted to open the door to database switching, and finally, this week, I tackled it. And let's tell a tale because there was a bit of an adventure, if we're being honest. Fundamentally, all the stuff there makes sense. I'm happy with the end configuration, but there was a surprising amount of back and forth. I broke the app more times than I want to actually announce on a podcast, but I broke it only for a brief period of time. It's fine. It's fine. Everybody's fine. [laughs] I feel a little bad about it, but these things happen. But yeah, it was interesting, is how I'll describe it. So fundamentally, Rails just has nice configuration for it. So at a high level, you're introducing your config/database.yml. Instead of it just being production is this URL, you now say primary is this replica or follower, whatever you want to name it is this. So you have now two configurations nested within your production config. And then in your ApplicationRecord, you inform Rails that it connects_to, and then you define a Hash for writing goes to the primary, reading goes to the follower. And you have to sync those up with the thing you just wrote in the config/database.yml but fundamentally, that kind of works. That makes it possible in your application to now switch your database connection. The real magic comes in the config environment production file. And in that, you specify that you want Rails to use a database resolver that says GET requests go to the replica, and anything that is not a GET request goes to the primary. So anytime you're writing data, anytime you're changing data within the system, that's going to go to the primary. And there's also a configuration that, as far as I can tell, gives a session affinity. So for the next two seconds after that, even if you make a GET request subsequently right following it, so you make a right, you POST, and then immediately after that, you do a GET. Like, you create an object, and then you get redirected to the show page for that object, Rails will continue to go to the primary. I think it's probably using a cookie or something to that effect, but you can configure that time span. So you can say like, "Actually, we see that our follower lags behind a little bit more, so let's give it a five-second timeout where all requests for that user will then go to the primary." But otherwise, once that timeout clears, then you're going to switch back, and you're going to go to the follower, and all GET requests will happen to the follower. And that's the story. You have to configure that, and then it works. STEPH: I always love when you start these out with "I have a tale to tell." I very much enjoy these adventures. And you also answered my question in regards to if you immediately just created something, but then you do a fetch that's very close to after you just created it and how that gets rendered. So that was perfect. CHRIS: Frankly, the core configuration is very straightforward, and it's very much in line with what we were just talking about of; this is what I want from Rails: make this thing very easy, hide the details behind the scenes. But as I said, there's a bit of a tale here. So that was the base configuration. It sort of worked but then immediately upon deploying it to production -- So we deployed it to staging first just to test it out. Staging was fine, as is often the case. Increasingly, I'm leaning into Charity Majors' idea of you got to test in production. You're testing in production even if you say you aren't. So once it got to production, we started seeing a bunch of errors raised or a handful of errors. And they were related to a handful of controller actions, which are GET requests, so they're either show or index, but in them, they were creating, or they were trying to create data. And so we were getting an error that was read-only connection error or something to that effect, ActiveRecord read-only, I think, was the error class. And that makes sense because I told it, "Hey, whenever you get a GET request, you're going to use that follower." But the follower is a read-only database connection because it's a follower, and so it was erroring. It was interesting because when this happened, I was like, wait, what? And then I looked into it. And it's frankly fine at all the levels. It is okay to create a record in a GET request as long as that creation is idempotent. You create if it doesn't exist, and then from there on, you use that same one. That still fits within the HTTP rules of idempotents, and everybody's fine with that, except for the database connection. Thankfully, this is relatively easy to work around. You just need to explicitly within that controller action say, "Use the right database, use the primary." And the way I implemented that, I wrote a method within ApplicationRecord that was with right DB connection, and then it takes a block, and you yield to that block. It's basically just proxying to another similar thing. And it's very similar to wrapping something in a transaction; it sort of feels like that. It's saying just for this point in time, switch over and use the primary because I know that I'm going to be having some side effect here. STEPH: Wow. That's so fun. I'm sure it was not fun for you. But as me hearing the story later, that's fun in regards to I hadn't thought about that idea of you're telling all the GETs you can only go to the read, and now you're also trying to create. I am feeling nervous in terms of local development. So if you're working on a new controller and if you have a fetch or GET action, but you're also creating something, you haven't seen another controller that is demonstrating that strategy that needs to be used. Is it just going to work locally? I imagine it does because it was working for the other code that you were running that didn't yet have that strategy in place. So I'm feeling nervous in terms of someone could easily miss that. CHRIS: I think there are a couple of different questions in what you just said. So let me try and answer all of the ones that I think I heard. So for local development, your database/config.yml is still going to be the same as it was. So you're just connecting to database namedevelopment. There's only one of them; there's no primary follower. So this is a case where you have a discrepancy between production and development, which is always interesting. And maybe that's something to poke at because ideally, I want as little gap there as possible. But this is one of those cases where I'm like, eh, I don't think I'm going to run two databases locally and have one be a follower. That feels like too much to manage. Under the hood with that right DB connection method that I talked about where you want to explicitly opt-in, in the case that we're in development, I just yield directly to the block. So instead of doing the actual database switching at that point, the method is basically saying, "If we're in production, then switch to the primary and yield and if we're not in production, then just yield." And so it'll just run that code, and it'll connect to the only database. More generally, I have the connectsto configuration; I wrapped that. So that's in ApplicationRecord where you're saying, "Hey, connect to these databases based on this logic," that is wrapped if we're in production check as well. And the same thing in the top-level configuration that says -- We're getting ahead of ourselves in the story because this is the end state that I got to. It's not where I started, and I screwed some stuff up in here, but basically, all of the different configuration points, my end result was to wrap them in a check that we are in production. STEPH: Okay. Sorry if I rushed your story. I was already thinking ahead to how could we accidentally goof this up? That makes a lot of sense for the method that's with right DB connection, that method that then it's going to check if we're in production, then we can use a primary follower strategy; otherwise, just use the database that we know of. So that helps a lot in answering those questions. And then we can pause and then get to my question later. But my other question that I'm curious about is what helps us prevent the team from making this mistake in terms of where we're adding a new controller, we add a new GET action, and we are also creating data, but then someone doesn't know to add that strategy that says, "Hey, you are allowed to go to the primary to also get data but also to write data too." And I'll let you take it away. CHRIS: I don't know that I have a great answer to that one if we're being honest. As I saw this, it was very easy to find -- I think there were three controller actions that had this behavior in the system that I was working on. They all threw errors. It was very easy to just wrap them in this extra method and fix that, and then we're good, and I haven't seen that error again. As for preventing it from new instances of this behavior, I don't have a good answer other than potentially you share this information within the team and then PR review. Ideally, someone's like, "Oh, this is one of those things you've got to wrap it in the fancy database switching logic." Potentially, and I don't actually think this would be possible, but there's a chance that RuboCop or other static analysis type thing could look inside any index or show action and say, "I see a create or an update or any of the methods." But again, Rails is so hard to do static analysis on that I would be surprised if were actually feasible to do that in a trustworthy way, probably worth a poke because this is the sort of thing that can easily sneak out. But potentially, my answer is, well, it'll blow up pretty loudly the first time you do it. And then you'll just fix it after that, which is not a great answer. I'm open to that being a mediocre answer at best. STEPH: [chuckles] Yeah. That's a fair answer. Just because I pose a question, I don't know if there necessarily is a great answer to it right away. And disseminating that information to the team to then having the team be able to point that out also sounds very reasonable but then still hashes that danger of someone overlooking it. The static analysis is an interesting idea, sort of like strong migrations. As you're introducing a new migration, strong migrations will do a wonderful job of showing you concerns that it has with the migration that you've added. And this is all just theoretical dreams and hopes because, yeah, that would help prevent some of those scenarios. CHRIS: It's interesting now that this is the second time we've discussed static analysis in this very episode. Clearly, it's a thing that I want more of in my world, and yet I work in languages like Ruby that are notoriously difficult to perform static analysis on. STEPH: I had a moment today writing a method that was currently just returning a string each time but then I was about to update that method. I was looking for a way like, well, maybe I don't always want a string. Maybe I actually want a Boolean here. But in the other case, I want a string. And the person I was pairing with they're like, "You could return -- [inaudible 29:31] Boolean in one case and then a string in the other case. Like, this is Ruby." [laughs] I was like, true, but I feel bad about it, and I don't love it. And we just had a phone conversation around that. If you're in the Ruby world following the more functional programming or type strictness and where you're returning specific types or trying to return a consistent type, it's ideal. But then also in Ruby, it's like it's Ruby, so sometimes you can finagle the rules a little bit. CHRIS: YOLO, as they say. STEPH: [laughs] CHRIS: Yeah, I'm definitely interested to see where projects like Sorbet and...I forgot what the core Ruby typed thing in Ruby 3.0 is called, but either of those. I'm really intrigued to see where they go and how the Ruby community either adopts or doesn't. I wouldn't be surprised if that were part of the outcome there. I've been impressed with the adoption of TypeScript and JavaScript, which is also a very, very free language, not quite to the degree that Ruby is. But yeah, it remains to be seen what will happen on those fronts. But continuing back to our saga, so we've now had the read-only error, we've fixed those, just wrapped them in blocks, and said, "Explicitly connect to the primary." So the next thing that I did after that, I realized that my configuration was a little bit flimsy is probably the best word to describe it. I was explicitly creating a new environment variable with the URL, the Postgres URL of the follower. And so I was using that environment variable to define where the URL like the Postgres URL of the follower database -- But I realized if Heroku comes in and does any maintenance on that Postgres instance, it's possible that the AWS IP address or other details of it will actually change and so that Postgres URL will no longer be valid. So that's one of the things that I rely on Heroku for, is to maintain my databases for me. But they will update, say, the DATABASE_URL environment variable if they change out your database. But now, I had broken that consistency. And so I'd set us up for somewhere down the road this will break, and I realized that because Heroku reached out and said, "Hey, your follower database needs maintenance." And I was like, oh, no. So, I tried to get it from -- It turned out, in this case, it didn't actually change. They were able to swap it out in place, but I wanted to add a little bit of robustness around that. And so I actually reached out, and Dan Croak, former CMO of thoughtbot, actually had written a wonderful blog post about how to configure this and particularly how to configure it in the context of Heroku. And he described how to use the Heroku naming scheme for the environment variables. They happen to have colors in them. So it's like Heroku Postgres cyan URL or orange URL or purple URL. And so he defined a scheme where you set an environment variable that describes the color, and then it can infer the database URL environment variable from that. And then went the one step further to say, "If that color environment variable is set, then treat as if we are configured for database switching. But if it is not set, even if we're in production, pretend like we don't have database switching," which that was another nice feature that I hadn't built in the first place. When I first configured this, I just said, "Production gets database switching. And if we're in production, then database switching is true," but that's actually not something that I want. I want to be able to say, "Upgrade our follower," at some point or do other things like that. And so I don't want to be locked into database switching on production. So that was a handful of nice configurations that I wanted to get to. Unfortunately, when I tried to deploy that switch, man, did it break. It broke, and then I was like, oh, I see I did something wrong there. So then I tested again on staging. Staging was fine. And then I went to production, and it broke again. And this happened like three times in one day. I felt like a terrible programmer. I had no idea what I was doing. Turns out that staging and production had different environment config files, and so their configurations were fundamentally different. They also had a different configuration for the database level. So one of the things I did as part of this was to clean those up and unify them so that staging was production with some environment variables to config it, but identically production, which is definitely a thing that I believe in, and I want basically all the time. I don't think we should have a distinct staging environment config that is wildly different. It should only vary in very small ways, basically just variables that say, "This is where the database is for staging," but otherwise be exactly configured as production. So I eventually got on the other side of that, fixed everything, have a nicely Heroku-fied color-based environment variable scheme, which is a bit of a Rube Goldberg machine, but it works. And I was able to hide that config in one place. And then everything else just says, "If there is a database follower URL defined, then use it." But yeah, so that was the last hard, weird bit of it. And then the only other thing that I did was I realized that this configuration was telling the Rails server how to behave, but there are also background jobs. And this application actually happens to have a ton of background job traffic. And so I did a quick check of those, and there were a handful of background jobs that were read-only. A lot of them were actually sending data to external systems, so to analytics or other email marketing or things like that. And so constantly, as users are doing anything in the application, there are jobs that are queued that aggregate some information, maybe calculate some statistics, and then push it to another system. But those are purely read-only when those jobs execute. And so I was able to add another configuration which said, "Use the read-only connection and configure that to wrap those particular sidekick jobs." And with that, I think I have a working database switching configuration that will hopefully give us a lot of headroom in the future. That's the idea, that's the dream, but we will see. STEPH: That is quite the saga between having GET requests that create data and then also the environment inconsistencies, which is a nice win that then you're able to improve that to make those environments more consistent. And then the background jobs, yeah, that's something that I had not considered until you just brought it up, and then being able to opt-out of the database switching sounds really nice. In regards to moving in this direction, you're saying gave you a lot of headroom for this; when it comes to monitoring performance, is there anything in place to let you know how it's doing? CHRIS: I love that I knew that this was going to be your question. I love that this is your question because it's a very good question. And unfortunately, in this case, it's actually somewhat unsatisfying. So as is my typical answer for this, we're using Scout as the application performance monitoring tool on this. And I was able to go in and monitor what it looked like a week ago, what it looked like after I made the change, and it was a little better. And that's all I can say about it. But that's fine. The idea with this, and at least in the way I was thinking about it, is this should get better at the margins. On the days where we have a high spike in traffic, those are the days where the database is actually working hard. They shouldn't make the normal throughput of the application that much higher in the regular case; it's for those outlier instances. To that end, though, I did analyze it. And so the average response time got 2% to 3% better in that week-by-week comparison, which was fine. The 95th percentile response time, so starting to get out to those margins, starting to get to the long tale of where stuff gets -- a couple of requests came in at the same time, and the application had to try a little harder, those got 8% to 9% better. That shape of improvement where for most requests, nothing really changed for some of the requests that used to be a little bit slower; those got a little bit better. That's the shape of what I would hope to see here. And it remains to be seen. This application has particular traffic patterns where they'll encourage a lot of users to be using the app at the same time. And historically, those have been somewhat problematic, and we've had to really work to shore up the performance in those cases. That's where I'm really interested to see how this goes. It would be hard to replicate those traffic patterns at this point. So I don't have a good way to really stress test this, but my hope is that for those cases, things will just hum along and be happy. STEPH: That makes a lot of sense and something that would be hard to measure, but the fact that you already see a little bit of improvements that's encouraging. CHRIS: But yeah, certainly, if I get a chance to see what that looks like in the near term, I will respond back and let you know how this has played out. But overall, now the configuration seems pretty stable. I think we're in a good spot. Hopefully, we won't have to do too much proactive management around this. And ideally, it just buys us a little bit of headroom. So that is certainly nice. But with that, with your wonderful question getting to the heart of the issue, I think that wraps up the saga of the database switching. STEPH: Well, I appreciate you sharing that saga. That's really helpful. I've been very excited to hear about how this goes because I haven't gotten to work on a project that's going to use database switching just yet. And now I know all the inside baseball. I'm trying to use sports metaphors here as to how to do this for when I get to work with database switching. CHRIS: Sports de force. CHRIS: Along the lines of new stuff, there is something I'm excited about. So in juxtaposition to my earlier statement or my earlier grievance where friends don't let friends use dateselect in regards to trying to keep the web accessible, I do have some praise for something that's being added in Rails 6.1 that I'm excited about. And it's a really nice method. It's a query method that can be used to find orphan records. So if I'm writing a query that is then looking for some of these missing records, so if I have my table -- I didn't come with a great example today, so let's just say we have like table A and then we're going to leftjoins on table B. And then we're going to look for where the ID for table B is nil, so then that way we find where we don't have that association that it's missing. And so leftjoins does this for us nicely. And then I always have to think about it a little bit where I'm like, okay, I want everything from table A, and I don't want to exclude anything in table B if there's not a match on the two. And so then I can find missing records that way or orphaned records that way. The method that's being introduced or has been introduced in Rails 6.1, so anyone that's on that new-new, there is the missing method. So you could do tableA.where.missing and then provide the table name. So there's a really nice blog post that highlights exactly how this method works, so I'll use the example that they have. So for where job listings are missing a manager, so you could do JobListing.where.missing(: manager), and then it's going to perform that leftjoin for you. And it's going to look for where the ID is nil. And I love it. It's really nice. CHRIS: That sounds excellent. That's definitely one of those things that I would have to sit down and squint my eyes and think very hard, really anything involving left_joins otherwise center. Any joins always make me have to think and so having Rails embrace that a little bit more nicely sounds delightful. STEPH: Yeah, it sounds like a nicety that's been added on top of Rails so that way we don't have to think quite as hard for any time; we want to find these orphaned records, and we know that we can use this new missing method. CHRIS: On the one hand, I feel bad saying, "I don't want to think that hard." On the other hand, that's literally our job is to make it so that we encode the thinking into the code, and then the machines do it for us. So it's kind of the game, but I still feel kind of bad. [laughs] STEPH: Well, it's more thinking about the new stuff, right? Like, if it's something that I've done repetitively, finding orphan records is something I've done several times, but I do it so infrequently that then each time I come back to it, I'm like, oh, I know how to do this, but I have to dig up the knowledge. How to do it is that part that I want to optimize. So I feel less bad in terms of saying, "I don't want to think about it," because I've thought about it before. I just don't want to think about it again. CHRIS: I like it. That's a good framing. I've thought about this before. Don't make me think about it again. [chuckles] STEPH: Exactly. On that note, shall we wrap up? CHRIS: Let's wrap up. STEPH: The show notes for this episode can be found at bikeshed.fm. CHRIS: The show is produced and edited by Mandy Moore. STEPH: Thanks, Mandy. If you enjoyed listening, one really easy way to support the show is to leave us a quick rating or even a review on iTunes as it really helps other people find the show. CHRIS: If you have feedback for this or any of our other episodes, you can reach us at @bikeshed. And you can reach me @christoomey. STEPH: And I'm @SViccari. CHRIS: Or you can email us at hosts@bikeshed.fm. STEPH: Thanks so much for listening to The Bike Shed, and we'll see you next week. All: Bye.

​Hey, Chris! That’s how we want you to start your phone call when you dial us at the Radio Backyard Fence. Give us some news from your part of the world. Maybe you found Susie’s missing hamster? Did you get the lawn mower started that everybody had given up on? Perhaps it was something in nature you saw and you want to share it with some friends. It’s a stress-relieving exercise at the end of the week. Join us for Chris Fabry Live.

Chris Dreyer is the founder and CEO of Rankings.io which is an agency specializing in SEO for personal injury law firms. Chris believes in being super niched in order to be successful for his clients. He says it takes extreme focus to deliver great SEO results and therefore his agency does not offer any other services or work with clients outside the legal industry. Chris is on the show to talk about how he's grown his agency beyond the first million and is now looking at an 8-figure revenue. 3 Golden Nuggets What got you to 7-figures won't get you to 8-figures. Referrals aren't scalable. Realizing this, Chris focuseds on marketing and has an employee dedicated to marketing for the agency, rather than just relying on referrals. Revenue doesn't mean anything if you're not profitable. As the agency revenue grew, so did expenses netting the same profit. Chris implemented the principles of Profit First and the agency's profitability has improved because of it. Get and keep the right people in the right seats. Whatever work is being done in-house, constantly evaluate whether those team members are actually contributing to the bottom line or causing a financial leakage. Sponsors and Resources Oribi: Today's episode of the Smart Agency Masterclass is sponsored by Oribi. Check out Oribi.io/smartagency for a free trial. Plus when you sign up for Oribi get 20% off the first three months with promo code: Smart Agency Subscribe Apple | Spotify | iHeart Radio | Stitcher | Radio FM   How Did One Digital Agency Grow to 8-Figures? Jason: [00:00:00] On this episode, I bring back a repeat guest, friend, member, client on the Masterclass, and we're going to talk about how he went from a million in revenue all the way up to eight figures in the past couple of years. And we go over all kinds of really amazing stuff. So I think you're really going to love this episode and let's get into it. Hey Chris, welcome back on the show. Chris: [00:00:30] Yeah, thanks for having me, Jason. Jason: [00:00:31] Yeah. I'm excited to have you back on. It's been a while since you've been on the podcast. Obviously, we chat all the time in the mastermind and back and forth about Star Wars and all goofy stuff. But for the people that haven't listened to the first episode, tell us who you are and what do you do? Chris: [00:00:49] Yeah, my name's Chris Dreyer. I am the CEO of Rankings.io. We own a personal injury law firm SEO agency. So very hyper niche, both horizontally and vertically, and yeah, just excited to be here and happy to discuss it. Jason: [00:01:05] Yeah. So last time you were on, you were just kind of cresting the million in revenue, and now you're a much further, so kind of take us through that journey a little bit about where you're at now and what are some key things that kind of looking back of going I wish I knew this time and I could have even gotten to your level now faster. Chris: [00:01:30] That's a great question. That's also a really loaded question. Jason, still try to talk about all the areas. I feel like I had my white belt and then I put on, I don't know the jujitsu levels, but I felt like I had my white belt and then you kind of get your brown or whatever the next level is at a million. And I think, you know, we're, we're approaching that. I don't even know that I would say black belt, but. Yeah, we're probably on target for our goal. This year is $9 million, stretch 10. And so it's, it's been a huge change across the entire company. I feel like we have a real business now. I think the difference is when you go to that million mark. The owner can wear a whole bunch of hats and really hustle and get to that million mark and just fill, you know, use their, their sphere of influence and kind of depend upon referrals and get there. But I think that you actually have to do marketing, have to generate your own brand, your own inbound leads to really transition towards that, that eight-figure mark. There are, if you think about the main components of a business, so you've got finance, you've got marketing, you've got sales and you've got operations. Finance wise. We implemented Profit First because I found out the hard way. I took my licks. The first three or four years of my business, we kept growing a hundred percent, but my revenue wasn't increasing now, it was investing back in the business. But for me, it was becoming more stressful in those times. I'm like, well, why do I need a $2 million business when I'm making the exact same? So I had to learn how to be financially healthy. And as we grew, also, our profitability would grow. That was a big one. It took some time. Anyone that's read the book Profit First, it's this lean mentality of working off of less and considering profit. And when you're don't have any profit to create those percentages, it takes a lot of work. So I would say that was a big learning lesson. The second on marketing again, we were depending upon referrals, our entire staff. I think I had one marketing individual and. Which is funny. We still have one marketing individual, but our marketing spend's way higher because we used strategic partners, but everyone was centered around operations and doing great work. And that helped us get referrals from our clients and helped us build to that seven-figure mark. But continuing off of that, it's feast or famine on referrals, which I know you've talked about. Jason: [00:04:02] But I like the way that you do referrals. And I love that, you know, at the experience you were like, I want to call you out, Jason, about referrals. Cause you know, I always joke with people. And I'm serious about referrals aren't scalable if you're waiting for them. But the way that you do referrals is you're not waiting for them. You're giving ammo and you're building strategic partnerships where that is scalable and you've built an amazing business from that. Chris: [00:04:31] Right, right. But yeah, we kind of joke back and forth. You and I, and. Basically is anytime you put attention towards something and you're intentional, it can create something and activates it. So we, after reading Chet Holmes book, the Ultimate Sales Machine, where he talks about his dream 100 clientele list. I'm like, well, what if we did our dream 100 referral partners and were because we were so niched that there were a lot of services that our clients needed though, that we didn't provide. So I went and sought out individuals that we were trying to find and identify the best Facebook ads individual, the best pay-per-click the best, everything, video production, the services that our clients needed and really develop those intentional relationships. So that, that really was very powerful. I think a lot of people have a scarcity mindset when it comes to competition in air quotes. When in reality, there's a lot of abundances. There's a lot of opportunity and you can actually have this rising tide type of effect, where we refer a PPC company, PPC leads, and maybe they don't do SEO and they can refer us SEO leads. So it's, there's some mutual benefits there. Jason: [00:05:43] Yeah, I love that. I mean, yeah, that's something I wish I did better at the first agency because I was just trying to murder everyone. If you had agency in your title, like, you know, you were my enemy and I felt like you were trying to take from me. But I liked how, you know, after I sold, I realized seeing a lot of what you do and what other members do and all that. About how that's has helped you and just also seeing how much work is actually out there and only taking on that perfect work that you look for is really big. In switching focus a little bit. I think too, one of the main things that really changed a lot for you. I remember lots of conversations around this, was pricing, figuring out charging the right amount. Because I feel a lot of people are way undercharging and you've kind of take it up a notch even above that. Chris: [00:06:41] Yeah. It's a great question about pricing and. I think one of the benefits of niching, particularly as niche as we are with just personal injury firms, you can really understand the market and understand the levels of competition. I know the SEO specialists with giant egos listening are probably thinking, Oh, I can just go to  Moz or SEMrush and do a competition analysis and know exactly what I should charge. No, that's probably not the case. There are, there are intangibles that play into competition, and really understanding those intangibles and what it takes to create leverage to rank a particular industry is different. And that's the thing that we started understanding is, by working with just personal injury law firms, we could model the individuals that were successful and apply that to the other firms. Because the legal vertical is a very fractured environment. They're geography, they're there in all different places around the country, around the world. They have different practice areas. It's a very fractured type of environment. So the competition in Los Angeles is entirely different than St. Louis. And in some cases, Atlanta and the, uh, Orlando could be more competitive than a Los Angeles or Chicago, it's because of who's there. And who's investing in their marketing. Several years ago, Louisiana from a digital standpoint, had no competition. Now you've got Morris Bart. You have Gordon McKernan, and you've got these individuals Labrador Earl's investing a lot in their marketing. So the dynamic has shifted, but that was a very long-winded way of saying it really helps to understand your market. But we started, I think in our first conversation, we talked about that foot in the door, the audit. It basically allows us to set strategic targets and really understand who our client is, what their assets are, what their unique selling proposition is and what their competition truly is on a deeper level. And a lot of our competitors, they kind of try to play that against us. They'll say, Oh, well, we do an audit for free and other people charge $5,000 - $7,500 bucks. Well, guess what? Your audit sucks because if it's free, you're not putting a lot of staff and time, and effort into that audit. It's automated by some tool. And it's garbage. So that's the difference. And the discoveries really helped us determine what we needed to do to get results from clients. Jason: [00:09:16] Yeah, I love it. And the last thing I want to chat about, that I, I feel that you've done really well is kind of the structure and the different levels that you've created within the agency. Because a lot of people are like at the million, I feel that anybody can get to the million mark and a lot of people can maintain the million mark, but getting to the next level like you are, it's very challenging. And a lot of times we go, well, who do we need to hire in order to get further along and really scale the agency rather than just kind of hit that glass ceiling? So what were some of the roles or what was the mindset that you had a couple of years ago in order to make that transition and really start scaling? Chris: [00:10:05] It's a great question. And I obsess about operations and the right people in the right seats, more than any other thing. I think it's the most important aspect of running a business, particularly in having the ability to scale and scale with quality. The things that we've done is we've created, there's this big controversy, right? You've had the pod people on and let's do the nomenclature really quick. So a pod is a cross-functional unit. That is cohesive. They're self-governing. Each individual has their own function in the pod that contributes towards a goal. And then you have, what's more traditional; the traditional hierarchy and the teams where a team has individuals all in one function. So you have all the developers together, all the account managers together. And there are pros and cons to each. The pros of a pod is communication, collaboration. It's, they're self-governing, they can operate in their own P&L. That's kind of the pro. The con is they're harder to start up. You have individuals who don't have soft skills. It's harder to, uh there are a lot of challenges and those situations, um, then with the team. The pro and I'm kind of getting long-winded here, but the team is you have a deeper level of expertise, but there's challenges in those communication silos. So, we really embraced after a lot of time and energy and reading about the biggest organizations, whether it's GE or a Ford motor company or Toyota, or  Apple, we really embraced teams. Functional teams. Because even though there's the downside of communication silos, you have extreme levels of expertise, deep level of expertise. Which by the way,  Apple who is gigantic, that's how they operate is, they have teams, not pods and they have this deep level of expertise and they talk about their challenges. There's a great article on Harvard business review that talks about their organizational structure that I really encourage individuals to read. Jason: [00:12:16] Love it. Well, this has all been amazing, Chris, and I appreciate you taking the time for coming on the podcast and everything you do to help out the mastermind. Is there anything I didn't ask you that you think would benefit the audience listening in? Chris: [00:12:29] Geez, I think the most important thing is to, you know, think about your operations. Right people, right seats. And then also one thing that's not talked about as much as to eliminate waste, where are you leaking money? What tools should you not be using? What individuals aren't truly driving an impact for your organization? You need to evaluate those situations too. Jason: [00:12:50] What, uh, I guess the last question, since I lied. In figuring out how to eliminate the waste, what's the best way to figure out where you're wasting money? Chris: [00:13:00] Yeah on the tool and software aspect as an owner, or if you have a CFO or Director of Finances to do consistent reviews of your P&L and your vendor expenses. That's a big one that you can bring your leadership team. Uh, from a utilization standpoint, it depends on if you're using vendors or if you have in-house labor. If you have in-house labor and you're doing almost everything in-house, you need to track it to see if individuals are really contributing for utilization. If you're using vendors, you're paying for a unit. So it's a little bit easier to track that. And, um, it's having a scorecard or jumbotron, whatever you want to call it, to have this top-level view of your metrics, to understand where there are leakages because you can see on the scorecard where they exist. Jason: [00:13:46] Awesome. Well, thanks so much, Chris, for coming on, everybody, go check out Rankings.io and follow Chris and what they're doing, they do an amazing job. And it's been an honor to see how far you've progressed year over year. That's why we do what we do. And if you guys want to be surrounded by amazing owners like Chris, and figure out the things that you might not be able to see in front of you because you're just too close to it I want you guys to go to DigitalAgencyElite.com. This is our exclusive mastermind for really experienced agency owners wanting to scale faster, do really cool things, and be surrounded by even more amazing people. So go to DigitalAgencyElite.com and until next time have a Swenk day.

Erin asked "Hey Chris - can we take over the podcast studio?" ... How do you say no to Erin Elliott?!... you don't!   This incredible group of docs came to town for Implant Pathway's inaugural Advanced Fast Track, and hopped on the mic to talk about it. When the cat's away... ;)

The RunRunLive 4.0 Podcast Episode 4-445 – The Hong Kong Running Scene with Mark Agnew  (Audio: link) audio:http://www.RunRunLive.com/PodcastEpisodes/epi4445.mp3] Link MarathonBQ – How to Qualify for the Boston Marathon in 14 Weeks - Intro: Hello and welcome to episode 4-445 of the RunRunLive podcast.  How are we doing?  By the time this podcast tickles your inner ears it will be the shortest day of the year up here in New England.  It might even be that “After the holidays” scenario when someone bought you a new audio device or phone and you have downloaded some podcasts and you’re listening in to see what you like and sure enough you find this weird old dude who runs a lot and has a dog and rambles on and on and on about things that no one really cares about and then says something like, “Hey that was a 71 word sentence!” Vladimir Nabokov would be proud! Yup you new listeners can bail out now because it doesn’t’ get any better. This week we talk to Mark Agnew who is the extreme sports reporter in Hong Kong for the South China Morning Post.  No kidding a real, honest to goodness ex-patriot living in Hong Kong and covering the ultra-running scene.  Super interesting.  In section one we talk about running in the snow, because, yeah, I’ve been running in the snow.  Write about what you know is what someone said, so there you have it.  In section two I’m going to talk about the importance of a positive aspect.  Now Aspect is not a good old English word.  It is from Latin.  You might recognize that Latin root ‘Spec’.  As in Spectacles.  So Aspect means “to look” or in the case I’m using it “appearance”. Anyhow…  It’s been an uneventful couple of weeks since we last spoke.  I had a good higher volume week and got 5 runs in.  I did them all on the trails with Ollie so it only added up to 30 something miles but if I had been running those on the roads it would have been over 40 miles for the week. We got a nice big dump of dry snow this week.  Somewhere around a foot and a half.  It’s hard to tell because the storm had 30+ MPH winds so the snow wasn’t evenly distributed. I haven’t been out running in this new snow yet, but I have gone for a couple hikes with Ollie and it is hard going! It got cold and stayed cold. Woke up to 3 degrees Fahrenheit this morning.  It’s amazing how fast you adapt to the cold weather.   It’s so dry and so bright with the snow down.  It’s also acoustically amazing.  You can hear sounds traveling for miles in the dry air.    The coyotes were out last night singing in the woods.  Clear as a bell. Ollie was freaking out.  He wanted to get out of the house and have a go at them.  Or join them maybe.  He is a bit of a free spirit. That son of a gun has taken to ambushing me on the trails again.  It’s a border collie thing.  Buddy, my old dog did it too.  But Ollie is a bit aggressive. He’ll pounce on me and give me a nip if I’m not paying attention.  He’s not trying to hurt me but his big old velociraptor jaws are leaving me with vampire bites on my thighs. I’ve taken to carrying a small stick with me so I can swat him when he moves in for an ambush.  What the southerners would call a switch.  Maybe I’m bringing back some bad memories of someone having a switch taken to them. “Switch” is an old German word.  Means long thin stick.  Maybe I should have used the word ‘crop’ like a riding crop.  “Crop” is another old German word.  I think we’re seeing a pattern.  Lots of swatting going on with those old Germans.  But anyhow I can give him a little swat and it keeps him from biting me.  I read an article about a woman who died from a dog bite.  She got the flesh eating bacteria!.  Yikes.  But what I’m really worried about is turning into a were-collie.  (by the way ‘were’ is Algo Saxon for ‘man’ – so were-wolf is literally ‘man-wolf’) If I were to turn into a were-collie, some morning of the full, collie moon, I might awaken with an urge to go on long runs in the woods, and chase a frisbee, and get my belly rubbed, and roll in dead animals, and have an odd fascination for sheep… Hey wait a second… Oh my God! I’m a were-collie… No, just kidding, that’s not true, I hardly ever roll in dead animals. On with the show!   About Zero ZERO — The End of Prostate Cancer is the leading national nonprofit with the mission to end prostate cancer. ZERO advances research, improves the lives of men and families, and inspires action. Link to my ZERO page: (for Donations) … I’ll remind you that the RunRunLive podcast is ad free and listener supported.  What does that mean? It means you don’t have to listen to me trying to sound sincere about Stamps.com or Audible.. (although, fyi, my MarathonBQ book is on audible) We do have a membership option where you can become a member and as a special thank you, you will get access to member’s only audio. There are book reviews, odd philosophical thoughts, zombie stories and I curate old episodes for you to listen to.  I recently added that guy who cut off is foot so he could keep training and my first call with Geoff Galloway.   “Curated” means I add some introductory comments and edit them up a bit.  So anyhow – become a member so I can keep paying my bills.   … The RunRunLive podcast is Ad Free and listener supported.  … Section one – Snow Running - http://runrunlive.com/snow-running   Voices of reason – the conversation Mark Agnew – Sports Journalist from Hong Kong Outdoor and Extreme Sports Editor Mark Agnew joined the Post in 2017 to capture the booming extreme sports scene in Hong Kong. He has been involved in outdoor and extreme sports his whole life. Since living in Hong Kong, his interest has expanded to endurance sports, including ultra-running and long distances ocean rowing. Areas of Expertise: Outdoor and extreme sports Languages Spoken: English     Section two – Positive Aspect-     Outro Ok my friends we have run up the side of Mt. Victoria through the end of Episode 4-445 of the RunRunLive Podcast.  We can take the tram down.  Got a lot of gear to review for you today.  First, I invested in a new pair of Hokas.  The Clifton 6.  These are road shoes.  I’ve worn them a couple times and I love, love, love them.  Haven’t done more than 8 miles but they are super comfy and easy to run in.  Second thing is I have been testing my new light.  Remember I told you about this light.  It’s the keyword rich one I got from Amazon for 24 bucks.  (big inhale) West Biking Night Running Lights, USB Rechargeable Chest Light with 90° Adjustable Beam Angle, 500 Lumens Waterproof Ultra Bright Safety Warning Lamp with Reflective Straps for Runner Jogger Camping (big exhale) Nabokov would not be proud.  It works great!  It’s USB, so no batteries and as long as you remember to charge it, it is super bright.  The main light sits in the middle of your chest like the headlight on a train and lights up the road or trail without you having to hold anything.  It’s got a red safety light on the back.  The main light can be tilted up or down and has two brightness settings.  I like the brightness and the hands free aspect.  The only thing I found that is minorly annoying is that since it is fixed, you have to turn your whole body if there is something not directly in front of you that you want to aluminate.  And since there is only one shoulder strap it tends to cant to one side a bit and you end up adjusting it every so often to bring it back to center.  The final thing was that pair of keyword rich gloves I got.  I’m using them but they are nothing special.  They’re not warm enough and I’ve already torn them during a fall.  Ollie and I have kept on exploring the trails in town and hooked in a couple new ones last week.  It’s fun to explore.  Now my other big news and where I’m going to blatantly ask for your help, is my new apocalypse podcast.  I’ve rewritten and added to the narrative of the old man in the apocalypse and created a new podcast called After the Apocalypse.  I’m releasing it as a serial.  There will be a new chapter each week and the whole season will be a coherent narrative arc.  This one is going up on a site called Acast.  I’ve put a trailer up as a place holder and the first episodes will be dropping in January.  If you go to you’ll be directed to the Acast site. I’ve hired a professional voice actor to be my narrator and it sounds great.  I had some artwork made and original music as well.  I’m really excited about this project. What I need form you is, when the podcast is live, go leave a review on one of the podcast sites, and share it with your friends.  I set up a Patreon page as well so if you’d like to help our survivors in the apocalypse you can go there and become a patron.  That’s . Stayed tuned for more, but I think this is going to resonate with fans of that genre.  And you might ask, “Hey Chris, don’t you have enough to do already?”  And you are right.  I have no excuse.  I am already too busy.  But, I listen to these athletes that I interview and they decide to do something.  To pitch their work a day lives and do something big.  Because they want to.  I wanted to do this.  So I gave myself permission to do it.  To do the best I can, maybe not be perfect, but to let myself go ahead and do it without expectation for the shear joy of it.  What is it that you always wanted to do but were too busy to do?  Or maybe you didn’t want to fail?  Or maybe you were afraid to succeed?  You’re not getting any younger my friend.  Pitch it all and do something you want to do.  You deserve it.  You’ve been a good soldier.  Now do something you want to do and make the world a better place because of it! I’ll leave you this week with a wonderful old anglo-Norman word.  Despair.  What does that mean? The prefix De is away or from.  Spair is from the old French meaning hope.  So Despair means to lose hope.  But, did you know that there is another form of this word, that is seldom used?  Respair.  Not kidding.  That’s a real word, even though Microsoft Word disagrees with me.  And of course it means to restore hope.  So use Respair in a sentence.  And I will see you out there! MarathonBQ – How to Qualify for the Boston Marathon in 14 Weeks - Rachel -> Coach Jeff ->  

"Hey Chris, this is Whitney. I love the podcast! You should come visit me in the pyramid next time you're in Montana." It had been four decades since I'd heard from Whitney Lake, who was a legend at Cazenovia High School in 1979-80. His reputation for brilliant disruption greeted me when I moved to town, halfway through senior year. He still excels at brilliant disruption. He lives in a pyramid he designed himself, is a multi-instrumentalist, designs and builds string instruments, wind turbines, and various other devices (patents pending). Dude is mad smart, funny, charming, and generous. And his BBQ sauce is amazing! Learn more about his work at AERI.net. Find me on Instagram or Twitter. Please consider supporting this podcast. This Amazon affiliate link kicks a few bucks back my way. Music: “Brightside of the Sun,” by Basin and Range, “Drinkee,”  by Sofi Tukker.

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Welcome to a special, new episode format that we call “Hey Chris.“ It’s a candid and casual conversation where Chris answers your most most burning questions. And Greg gets to spring them on him. Have a question for Chris? Visit thefutur.com/heychris and ask away. This episode is sponsored by Framer. framer.com/thefutur Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Chris CageFounder of Greenbelly Meals Bio: Chris is the founder of Greenbelly Meals, a company he founded in his mom's kitchen after thru-hiking the Appalachian Trail. Greenbelly makes a ready-to-eat meal loaded with dense nutrition for hikers and adventurers. Chris also wrote a book called "How to Hike the Appalachian Trail" and has appeared on podcasts like the Joe Rogan Experience. When he's not hiking, he can be found rock climbing, playing board games or nerding out on punk rock. Show Notes: Cottage Food LawsKickstarter raised 19kApril Dunford - Obviously AwesomeChad from Boardgame Tables4 Hour Workweek Sponsors: Drip – Get a free demo of Drip using this coupon code!Spark Shipping – eCommerce Automation Links: https://www.greenbelly.co/https://www.facebook.com/greenbellymeals/https://www.instagram.com/greenbellymeal/https://www.youtube.com/c/greenbelly Transcript: Charles (00:00): In this episode of The Business of eCommerce. I talk with Chris Cage about founding an eCommerce foods business. This is a business of eCommerce episode 120. Welcome to the business of eCommerce. The show that helps eCommerce retailers start, launch and grow their eCommerce business. I am Charles Palleschi and I'm here today with Chris Cage. Chris is the founder of green belly meals, a company that he founded in his mom's kitchen after hiking the Appalachian trail, green belly makes a ready to eat mills bar loaded with dense nutrients for hikers and adventurers. I as Chris on the show today to chat about his experience launching an eCommerce foods brand. So, Hey Chris, how are you doing today? Chris (00:44): Charles, what's up man? Thanks for having me. Charles (00:46): Yeah, awesome to have you on the show. It we're just chatting before the show. Currently your abroad, right? So you're originally from the U S but currently you are? Chris (00:55): Yeah, I'm in Chiang Mai, Thailand right now. If you can tell the it's dark. Yeah. But yeah, we are worlds away right now. Yeah, I'm in Chiang Mai, Thailand. Charles (01:07): Yeah. So, and that's, I know we had to do some time-sucking here. It's early for me, late for you. But so thank you for taking the time. Chris (01:14): Yeah, man. Thanks for having me do. Yeah. But yeah, we are a little bit off on time, so that's for sure. Charles (01:17): Yeah, exactly the opposite of most. I think actually it might be the opposite. It's super interesting. You're kind of the background. So ready to eat backpacking mail. Right? So this is a bar. So you guys sell it's a bar specifically if you're a backpacker like a protein bar sort of thing or what exactly is it? Chris (01:37): Yeah, it's two large fluffy meal bars inside a single package that provides 650 calories. So we use all natural ingredients and really just try to focus on a high macro nutrient label. So high calorie protein, fat, fiber, all that good stuff. So for hikers, which is, my background is I was a hiker and hiking the Appalachian trail and hiking 20 miles a day for six months. That, you know, I said, Hey, you know, I was losing a lot of weight and weight, is it weight on your pack as a huge priority because you generally have maybe a hundred miles or five days in between resupply points that you need to make sure that the food you are carrying in between those resupply points is as nutritionally dense as possible. So that was kind of where the idea came from is get creating a product that's going to be nutritionally dense. So if you're burning 5,000 calories a day and you could have to and you have to carry all the food, you know, in your pack for the next five days, it really needs to be dense. So I started thinking about creating a really dense lightweight ready to eat meal that, you know, was all natural. Charles (02:52): So, okay. Yeah. I don't talk to too many people that are in that kind of actual food space. I feel like that in itself, it's like its

Chris BrewerCo-Founder of OMG Commerce Bio: Chris Brewer is the co-founder of OMG Commerce, a digital eCommerce agency based in Springfield, MO. OMG Commerce is a Google Premier Partner that places them in the top 2-3% of all Google Partner agencies worldwide. Chris is a frequent speaker and guest at industry events and digital marketing podcasts. He currently manages inbound inquiries and acts as a strategist for OMG Commerce clients. In addition to the incredible growth and success with “OMG,” his entrepreneurial accomplishments have included building and selling an outdoor advertising company and direct mail publishing company. He is the author of the book, Does Your Marketing Make You Money: 7 Quick & Easy Secrets to Create A Booming Business Now and resides just outside Springfield, Missouri with his wife of 24 years. Sponsors: Drip – Get a free demo of Drip using this coupon code!Spark Shipping – eCommerce Automation Links: https://omgcommerce.com https://facebook.com/chrisbrewermarketerhttps://chrisbrewer.cohttps://twitter.com/momarketer Transcript: Charles (00:00): In this episode of the business e-commerce. I talked with crisper about the best practices when working with a marketing agency. This is a Busby commerce episode one 14 Charles (00:16): Welcome to the business of eCommerce, the show that helps eCommerce retailers start launch and grow their eCommerce business. I'm your host, Charles Polaski. I'm here today with Chris brewer. Chris is a cofounder of OMG commerce, a digital e-commerce agency. OMG commerce is a Google premier partner that places them in the top two to 3% of all Google partner agencies worldwide. I asked Chris to the show today to chat about what are the some of the best practices when working with an agency. So, Hey Chris, how are you doing today? And I'm fantastic. I am enjoying the winter weather where I'm located, which right now is Missouri, but soon we'll be back in sunny Florida. So enjoying both places. Yes, Florida traveling down there actually next week for a [inaudible] to see some family and it is fantastic getting out of the Northeast. Same thing with the winter weather. Charles (01:13): So this, this timing is very good for that. So great to, great to have you on the show though. It's super interesting talking about kind of the whole agency side. Right on. So this is episode one 14. It was one 11. I talked to John from credo all about hiring SEO agencies, kind of the initial how to find the agency, how to hire. And it's a super interesting show. So sticking, you know, there's a lot, you guys do it with agency work on how to actually the work with the agency and also kind of were talking before the show, how to fire the agency is also kind of another thing and just how to and your relationship, let's say with an agency, it's laid a different way. So I guess first, you know, tell me a little bit of your experience kind of as you are. Charles (02:01): You're on the agency side, right? So you guys absolutely. Yup. Yup. We're on the agency side. So we've been hired and we've also been fired. So I got, we got both ends of the spectrum covered, but you know, seriously for about 10 years, my business partner, Brett Curry and I was pretty well-spoken on around the circuits and events and has his own podcast as well. He and I have grown this agency mainly focusing on Google services, search shopping, YouTube and display. And then also in the last couple of years, Amazon as well and have a team. It's getting close to 40 people, which is just mind boggling to me. But you know, I'm, I'm fielding personally two to three leads a day. And on the hiring side, I'm on the other side of that. Right. Like your other podcast that talking about how to hire, I'm on the other side of that because people are hopefully have done their homework before they've called us and then we're engaging with those brands. Charles (03:02):

If you’re shopping for a Ford Ranger, you need to hear this episode! In this episode of the Miracle Ford Podcast, host John Haggard talks to Chris Laye, Ford Sales Zone Manager, about the new 2019 Ford Ranger, its exciting features and technology. Other topics discussed include the following: Chris’s Start in the Automotive IndustryChris’s Favorite Travel DestinationWhat Does a Sales Zone Manager Do?The Growth in Ford Market in Gallatin, TNThe Rise of SUVs and TrucksThe New 2019 Ford RangerAwards the 2019 Ford Ranger Has Already GarneredThe Most Exciting Features of the New Ford RangerFord Ranger Technology That Everyone Should Know OfAndroid and Apple Car PlayFord Ranger’s Frequently Asked QuestionsWhy Pick a Ranger over Other Brands and ModelsChris’s Go-to Hometown RestaurantUpcoming Mustang-inspired SUV This November Transcript John Haggard 0:02 Welcome to the Miracle Ford podcast where you will learn the best ways to purchase, lease, service and maintain, accessorize, and sell your vehicle for the highest resale value possible when you’re ready, and also to learn more about the capabilities and fun features of new vehicles. I’m your host, John Haggard, and throughout each month, we’ll also have special guests join us and you’ll also see a transcript of each podcast for quick reference. If you need some additional information, you can just go find it. On this podcast. We’re speaking today with Chris Laye. He’s the Ford Sales Zone Manager for Zone C in the Memphis region. Hey Chris, welcome to the podcast. Chris Laye 0:40 Thanks, John. Thanks for having me. Man. I’m excited to be here and excited to talk about the all-new Ranger and the new products we have coming out. John Haggard 0:47 Good. I think a lot of folks always want to know about the future. We know about the past but hey, what is coming up? So before we dive into the world of Ford, and get an idea as to what is upcoming, tell us how did you get started in the automotive business. There were a lot of professions you could have gone into, why automotive? How did you get there? Chris Laye 1:05 Yeah, absolutely. So if you spend enough time around Ford employees, you’ll probably hear the phrase, “my blood runs blue”. John Haggard 1:12 Yeah. Chris Laye 1:13 And that’s certainly the case for me. So my grandfather’s on both sides of my family worked for Ford Motor Company, as well as my father. So actually, I held the same position that I do now. So kind of following in their footsteps. But when I was growing up, I started out working at a local dealership, washing cars in the summers and high school and helping out with events. From there, I went to college where I had an internship with the marketing sales and service team out of Atlanta. And at the end of my internship, I was fortunate enough to receive a full-time offer, which I accepted and that’s how I got my start in the automotive business. So kind of always been in my blood and Ford has it as well. John Haggard 1:53 Yeah, it was very interesting. Your story parallels that of Jim Galvin, dealer principal from Miracle ord. Because I said hey, how did you get started? He said, Well I, you know, went to work for my dad I started washing cars to get gas money so I could go to school and all this type of thing. So I guess it really does sometimes run in the family. Did you do anything before automotive, like, you know, maybe you were working in a restaurant when you first got your driver’s license or anything like that. Chris Laye 2:18 To go back to Mr. Galvin. Jim Galvin’s father, Jim Galvin SR., actually worked with my grandfather in Ford. So yeah, small world. So I was excited to be covering that story as well. So the only other job actually had that wasn’t automotive-related was I worked at an animal shelter and I think my freshman year of high school, which I really enjoyed giving back to the community and helping those dogs find a home. John Haggard 2:47 So where are you originally from? Chris Laye 2:50 I’m originally from Swanee, Georgia, which is about 30 miles north of Atlanta. John Haggard 2:54 Okay, about 30 miles north. And you’ve lived in… where are you living now, by the way? Chris Laye 3:00 So I currently live in Memphis, which is where our regional headquarters is. To kinda give you a little bit of background of what we are what areas we cover. So our regions actually made up of five different zones. We cover the state of Arkansas, Louisiana, Mississippi, and then parts of Kentucky and Tennessee. So Memphis is our central location. John Haggard 3:21 And you travel all of those. Is that right? Chris Laye 3:24 I only cover Nashville. And we have there’s four other sales managers, and each one of those managers covers one of those states. John Haggard 3:32 All right, so when you’re not doing Ford 24/7, Chris, what are your passions outside of work? What do you like to do? Chris Laye 3:39 I think my biggest passion is probably traveling. I enjoy going to new places, meeting new people and seeing things from a different perspective. Sometimes it’s easy to get caught up in the day to day work of our lives. So traveling is a good way for me to slow things down and enjoy living in the moment and invest in other people. John Haggard 3:56 Any favorite cities or destinations that you have been to that maybe someone has not been to that you would recommend? Chris Laye 4:04 My favorite places I have probably been… Santorini in Greece. It’s a gorgeous gorgeous island. Then the beautiful scenery. So if you know if you get the chance head out to Santorini in Greece. John Haggard 4:16 Alright, so let’s fantasize for a moment. If you could have one superpower, what would it be? Chris Laye 4:22 Oh, that’s a tough one. I’m gonna go with the first one I thought of, and it’s got to be flying. John Haggard 4:26 Okay. So if you could just sort of like jump off the ground and fly? Chris Laye 4:29 Fly. I mean, that would take care of my passion for travel and not a bad superpower to have. John Haggard 4:35 Kind of like Superman? Chris Laye 4:36 Right! John Haggard 4:37 Yeah. You wouldn’t have to stand in any long lines at the airport to go anywhere. You could just jump off the ground and go. That would be kind of fun. Chris Laye 4:44 Right! Yeah, take care of the Atlanta Atlanta airport issue we have going on over here. John Haggard 4:49 You know, I think a lot of people Chris would love to have your job, especially in the world of Ford and on automotive. It’s a fast-moving, fun, exciting industry, always something new to report. What is it about that job that just makes you want to get up every morning and go to work? Chris Laye 5:05 What you’ll hear from myself and probably a lot of people that have been in the business for many years is that no day is the same. And so I enjoy waking up every morning and not really knowing what’s going to happen because it’s going to be a different day. It’s certain incentives that are coming out. There’s customers coming in, new vehicles are being released. And you know, the relationships that you build with your co-workers and the dealer body are absolutely incredible. So you never know what’s going to happen. And I think that’s what makes it so exciting to wake up in the morning and give this job 110% effort. John Haggard 5:39 So tell us about your role specifically, what is it exactly? Chris Laye 5:44 So I think one of the most exciting parts about my job and you know, probably the most valuable asset that we have is Ford Motor Company is our dealer network. So I get the opportunity to work with 13 of the Ford stores each day. Most of them are in the Greater Nashville area but go all the way to Jackson, Tennessee up to Paducah, Kentucky. So a lot of territory to cover, but I get to work with their stores every day. My job is basically to be the liaison between Ford Motor Company and the dealer body that I cover. So I provide business operations consulting, consumer experience support, as well as sales forecasting and metrics to show growth opportunities. But one of the most important pieces of my role is wholesale vehicles. So two weeks out of each month, I go to each store so I’ll start to my stores and we build a sales forecast together to decide how many vehicles they need to purchase from Ford. And this process is extremely important because a dealership needs to have the right quantity and mix of vehicles to better serve the market that they’re in. So I always tell my friends that we know when you drive by a Ford dealership, you’ll see all the new line of Rangers, F150s, Explorers. And those vehicles go through me, so a dealership will earn their wholesale through a Sales Zone Manager. John Haggard 7:09 All right. And as you look at Gallatin, Tennessee for Miracle Ford, just the market as a whole, what do you see there? Chris Laye 7:16 I think the Gallatin market is one of the top 10 fastest growing cities in America. So there’s a huge opportunity for growth throughout that area, which is why you are seeing the pick-up in different OEM moving to the area, as well as Miracle Ford continuing to do a great job in the area. You know, what’s interesting about the Nashville zone and certainly about Gallatin as well is the small utility market. So I think you’ve probably heard a lot from Ford about how we are getting rid of or discontinuing certain car lines. And the industry data all over the zone and in Gallatin show that more and more people are wanting to buy SUV. So whether that’s a small utility, like an Escape, or what we’re going to talk about today, like the new 2019 Ford Ranger, which is a medium-sized pick-up, these customers want to get out of cars move into either a medium or large SUV or truck. John Haggard 8:18 What is causing that trend? Would you say, Chris Laye 8:20 You know, I think it’s the spirit of adventure, the spirit of wanting to have a vehicle that can go off-road. Now maybe you never take that vehicle off-road, but the looks of it, the ability for it to do that. I don’t think you can get that out of a car. So that’s why I think you’ve seen a lot of crossovers and trucks with the ability to have those off-road or aggressive features. John Haggard 8:43 So let’s jump into the new 2019 Ford Ranger. By the way, is that the newest addition to the Ford lineup? Chris Laye 8:50 Yes, it’s kind of a tricky question. You know, the automotive industry. We refresh or come out with our new products every single year similar to how you know somebody might get a new iPhone or an all-new iPhone. And with the Ranger, it’s a nameplate that we’ve had in the past. A lot of customers are aware of our old Rangers that we stopped building in 2011. And so we are bringing back this nameplate and it is the first time we’ve brought back a nameplate in quite a while in an all-new product. John Haggard 9:16 Alright, so it’s been eight years then since there was a Ford Ranger. Chris Laye 9:21 Yes, sir. That’s correct. John Haggard 9:22 All right. And so what do you see right now, you know, Consumer Reports and magazines like that always want to rate cars and trucks and SUVs and whatever it may be, any awards so far that the 2019 Ranger has won a 2019 Chris Laye 9:36 Ranger was actually one of the most awarded medium size pick-ups when it came out. And so two of those really stuck out to me. Both are from JD Power. The first is the best performance and the other is the highest quality, the mid-size pick-up truck segment. And you know, when you think about purchasing a new vehicle, probably two of the most important things are you looking for are performance and quality. So the fact that we can take home both of those awards certainly stands out to me. John Haggard 10:01 All right, and then what would you say are the most exciting features of the new Ford Ranger? Chris Laye 10:06 I have three favorite features that I think are important especially to somebody that’s in maybe a younger generation. The first one being the terrain management system. So we have a normal mode, snow, mud, and sand, which will come in handy if you are taking that off-road. Followed by trail control, which is similar to cruise control, but for load speed for low-speed off-roading. And then one of the safety features that Ford’s done a really good job of not only putting in the Ranger but really cross our lineup is Ford Co-pilot 360, which includes automatic high beam headlamps, bliss, and Lane Keeping system. John Haggard 10:43 All right now so we’re into the technology of the Ranger and people like you were mentioning earlier. You know, every year there’s a refresh and a new iPhone comes out or whatever. Any more about the technology of the Ranger that people are really excited about? Chris Laye 10:57 Yeah, one of the new pieces of technology we’ve really put a lot of innovation and research into and FR to come out with this Ford Pass Connect. So Ford Pass Connect is an app that connects to your vehicle that allows you to lock, unlock, start and stop your vehicle, as well as scheduled maintenance, appointments through your hometown dealership and scheduled times for your vehicle to turn on in the morning. So you can have a warm vehicle in the winter and a cooler vehicle in the summer. I know, often when I take flights or if I’ve been out of my car for a while, I’ll go ahead and start that started from my plane or when I land. And like I said before, Ford Copilot 360 is one of my favorite features. I think anybody that’s buying a new vehicle, this is something that they should look at, because it does have the bliss which is incredibly important. That’s that yellow light that pops up and your mirror to let you know that a vehicle is next to you so as not to get over. And then the lane-keeping system so just stay in the lane. And then the trail control would be exclusive to the Ranger as well. John Haggard 12:04 All right, and we hear a lot about Android and Apple Car Play. Does the Ranger have those available? Chris Laye 12:11 Yes, sir. So the Ranger does have Android and Apple Car Play. So both are available when it comes to choosing which one is really a personal preference. So if you have an Apple phone, use your Apple, if you have Android, you can use Android. Or you can use sync, which is the Ford technology that we have it most Ford customers are used to say. John Haggard 12:31 All right, so really, do you see any advantages over other systems other than Ford SYNC, Android and Apple Car Play? Or are there any other systems out there? Chris Laye 12:39 To me, it really comes down to personal preference. I have friends and I’ve seen customers that have Apple Car Play available that prefer sync. And I’ve seen customers that swear by Apple Car Play. So really, I would try both of them. see which one do you enjoy more, which one’s easier to navigate. And that’s the one that I’ll go with. But all three are available. John Haggard 12:58 What would you say, Chris? Are the top two or maybe three questions that people ask about the Ford Ranger when they are considering Hey, do I get this? Or do I go with another brand? Or what? Chris Laye 13:10 There are quite a few questions that people will ask themselves. And so I kind of wanted to relate that one back to why would somebody pick a Ranger over and F-150. I think when it comes to the Ranger, Ranger customers seek freedom and adventure kind of going back to that transition from cars to SUVs from the mainstream on road to kind of having that adventure feel. And the Ranger customers I think have the need for the freedom of maneuverability, capability, and versatility. And I think that’s what’s going to come into play when you’re looking at a medium-sized pick-up truck. And I think these are kind of the reasons why you would choose the Ranger over an F-150. John Haggard 13:56 All right, you know, there’s a lot of competition out there. Every car brand manufacturer wants to do a deal, of course. So if you were to say, look, here’s why you would want to pick a Ranger over say a Toyota or over a Nissan or a Chevy. Chris Laye 14:11 There are basically three different vehicles that are in these medium-sized pickups that are popular and everybody’s heard of them. So you got the Ford Ranger, the 2019 Chevy Colorado, and the 2019 Toyota Tacoma. When you think about the Chevy Colorado, the Ford Ranger is best in class max payload capacity. Ranger offers more cargo-hauling capacity than the Colorado. The Ranger also offers available technologies not found in the Colorado such as adaptive cruise control, with forward collision warning and intelligent access with push-button start. And it also has a 10-speed automatic transmission with the auto START STOP technology which the Chevy Colorado does not have. And then one of the more popular mid-size pickups is the 2019 Toyota Tacoma. However, we have the best in class max payload the Ranger with its standard 2.3-liter eco boost in line for engine which is an incredible engine. It out tows the Tacoma equipped with either the 2.7 or 3.5 v6. So a smaller engine that able to out tow a vehicle with a bigger engine, which also usually results in better gas mileage. And then the Ranger also offers some technologies that aren’t found in the Tacoma. so smart trailer tow connector, as well as the class-exclusive 10-speed automatic transmission. So several different reasons why you would choose a Ford Ranger over a Colorado or Tacoma John Haggard 15:34 And is a Nissan… Does Nissan have anything in that space that would be something someone would look at to compare? Chris Laye 15:42 Yeah, so Nissan has the frontier which is a vehicle that hasn’t really been updated in the past 10 years. I think most customers are these based off of the market share data that we look at are looking at the Colorado Tacoma, of course, the Ranger. You just don’t see as many customers comparing a Frontier to a Ranger. John Haggard 16:00 Gotcha. Okay, so when you get hungry, Chris, what’s your go-to order at your favorite hometown restaurant? Chris Laye 16:08 Well, I’m hoping that some of the podcast listeners can agree with me on this one. I eat a lot of chain restaurants because I travel pretty often. So if I will go home, it’s been a long week and I need that pick me up. I’m going to Chili’s I’m getting a Triple Dipper. John Haggard 16:22 All right. Does anybody come in second place? Chris Laye 16:29 Second place um, I’d say fast food-wise, Chick Fil A is my hero. So anytime that I need to grab something on the go, I’m always at Chick Fil A grabbing a chicken sandwich. John Haggard 16:40 All right, when you know we all develop in life and there are lots of influences that help us get on our way so to speak. Who would you say is the biggest influence in your life? Chris Laye 16:49 Yes, I think my biggest influence and my role model is my grandfather. I mentioned that I have family members that worked for Ford and that’s why we all kind of bleed blue. And so my grandfather had a significant impact on me when we were young, and he’s still doing really well. So I learned a lot from him. I value his character. He’s taught me many things that are hard to teach, like, compassion, generosity. And so those values that I think he’s instilled in me are priceless, and I think that’s why he’s my hero. Chris Laye 17:24 All right, so is there any book that you would recommend that someone read? John Haggard 17:29 You know, in which as much as I travel, I tend to listen to podcasts. So instead of reading, podcasts are usually my go-to. One of my favorite podcasts out there is it’s called Afford Anything by Paula Pant. It just talks about life and making decisions and how people use their money or save their money and I just find it extremely interesting. John Haggard 17:49 So take a look back if you, something that you wish you had known, is there something that you wish you had known that you do know now that when you first started out in the automotive business, you say gosh, if I’d only know, if only knew today what I knew then? Chris Laye 18:07 Sounds obvious when you think about it, but the relationships that you build and the impacts that they have on your day to day and your, you know your personal life, I just didn’t expect the impact that they’ve had with how much Zone Managers travel. They’re going back and forth, you’re on the road. Now, five days a week, the dealer body and the dealers have truly become not only business assets, but they play a role in your personal life as well. The relationships that you’re able to build not only with the stores, but with customers that you meet and your co-workers is certainly something that I did not expect to be the way that it is. John Haggard 18:44 So you thought it would sort of be kind of all business. Okay, I’m here let’s transact let’s do the market share reports. Let’s see what we can do and off to the next door. Chris Laye 18:52 Correct. John Haggard 18:52 Alright, so is there a story that you could share, just something that we’re a dealer or somewhere down the line has helped you with something or look at something differently or vice versa. Anything like that? Chris Laye 19:01 I think I got a story for you that kind of demonstrate to the relationships that you build with these guys. So my previous zone was New Orleans, which I truly enjoyed. And one of my stores down there had actually won President’s Award. And so in celebrating the partnership and relationship of them winning President’s Award, we actually spent two days out deep sea fishing off the Gulf Coast. Those are the moments or the relationships that you build. You know, I certainly did not take what we’re going to happen in this job. Like you mentioned earlier. I thought it was going to be more transactional. And I’m very, very happy to say that it’s not yeah, you truly enjoy being around all these guys. John Haggard 19:43 So did you reel something in on that deep sea fishing trip? Chris Laye 19:48 I did. Thankfully, because it would have been embarrassing if I did not. I won’t know if I get invited back. I caught a couple of red snappers, and that was good enough for me. I just enjoyed being out there with everybody and I’m just happy I caught something. John Haggard 20:04 What would you say that you are most curious about right now? Chris Laye 20:08 Most curious about? So I guess as it relates to the automotive industry. You see more and more manufacturers coming out with all-electric vehicles, especially Ford so we actually reveal our all-new Mustang-inspired SUV crossover on November 17th. And so I’m most curious about the direction of what we are using as fuel moving forward, and how hybrid and electricity will play into the drivetrains and the engines that we will use in the next, you know, probably a decade or two decades. John Haggard 20:44 One last question, Chris. What would you say the one thing – what is the one thing – that most people don’t know about you but they would be very surprised to learn? Chris Laye 20:56 Oh, man! Going back to what I spoke to about earlier about my passion for travel. About three, four years ago completed a lap around the world. John Haggard 21:07 A lap around the world? Chris Laye 21:09 A lap around the world. So I went to about 15 different countries and did a full circle around the world. John Haggard 21:15 Wow. Okay, so obviously flying into 15 different countries that way. Is that how you’re saying? Chris Laye 21:22 Yes. So one lap around the world. Some of those were flights, some of them were trains. But yes, completed the full lap. John Haggard 21:30 Wow. So what? Just a few of the cities that you landed or took the train to? Chris Laye 21:37 Yes, I went to, I guess, the countries where I went to, Iceland, the Netherlands, Germany, India, Thailand, Belgium. So basically started in Atlanta and then worked my way east. John Haggard 21:52 All right. How long did it take you to do the circle to do the lap? Chris Laye 21:55 60 days? John Haggard 21:56 60? 2 months? Chris Laye 21:58 Two months. So I spent a couple days of each place that I went to and learned a lot and enjoyed meeting new people and having different experiences. John Haggard 22:07 Talking to Chris Laye everybody, the Ford Sales Zone Manager for, they call it, Zone C in the Memphis region on the Miracle Ford podcast. Chris, thanks for joining us here today. Chris Laye 22:18 John, thank you so much for your time. It was an honor to be on the podcast with you. Thank you so much! John Haggard 22:22 You bet. And join us again, folks right here for other topics on the podcast throughout each month. Our goal here is to show you the best ways to purchase, lease, service and maintain, accessorize, and also to sell your vehicle for the highest resale value possible when you’re ready to, and to learn more about specific vehicles that you might be interested in. And don’t forget the transcript of each podcast. Yes, we do have it right here on the website. You can easily refer to it for more information at your fingertips. I’m your host, John Haggard, and we’ll see you next time.

Hey Chris, didn’t you say this was a Weekly Podcast? Why Yes Chris, I did SAY that… but what I meant was it would be a Weekly Podcast as long as it fit into the Army’s schedule. …and we’re back. The gang is all here and we have a heck of a show for you … Continue reading Horse Thoughts in War, Lord Voldemort Walks into a Pet Shop, and The Chris Memorial Salad Bar →

Download this Episode When the transaction closes, do you continue to develop and nurture the relationship or do you move on to the next deal? Tune in to todays show to hear what some agents are doing to keep the momenntum going! reThink Real Estate Podcast Transcription Audio length 33:22 RTRE 58 – Keeping A Relationship Great Post Closing [music] [Chris] Welcome to re:Think Real Estate, your educational and hopefully entertaining source for all things real estate, business, news and tech.  [Christian]: I am Christian Harris in Seattle, Washington. [Nathan]: Hi, I am Nathan White in Columbus, Ohio. [Chris]: And I am Chris Lazarus in Atlanta, Georgia. Thanks for tuning in.  [music] [Chris]: Everybody and welcome back to re:Think Real Estate. Missed you in the last week. We're glad to be back. Got Christian, Nate here. And last week we left off with Christian kind of giving a little tease. We're gonna talk this week about how to continue the relationship with your clients post closing. So let's not waste any good time. Christian let's dive on in. What are you doing to improve and continue that relationship with your clients once the deal's done? [Christian]:  Sure yeah I mean, there's so many things you...you can do. Unfortunately it's...it's kind of the consistently lacking aspects of a lot of agents business even if your tool rock star and you do a great job it's often very easy to lose track of your clients. And they lose tracking you and, you know, you're later they're like “I can't even remember my agent's name or how to get a hold of. I'm gonna contact someone else.” So to help avoid that obviously the creating unique content, you know, whether that's through email or social media. Whatever it is kind of the...I won't say the easy way, that's probably one of the harder ways. But there's a lot of services and companies you can use that will help provide value as well. I kind of alluded to a the service that we have started using called Home bot. And that has been very cool because you can essentially…now it doesn't work with sellers because they've just sold their home, you know, unless they bought a new one. But it's kind of geared towards homeowners. So obviously it's gonna be your buyer clientele. But it's pretty cool because it's...it's cheap and you sign them up for it. And it will send them a monthly email that's real easy to use information, you know. With like says, you know, your estimated value for your home is X and it shows a graph of the value. And it'll, you know, he knows your mortgage and whatnot. And it will say “Hey your your net worth of your home is this. This is how much you've paid in toward your principle, toward your interest.” If you're to, you know, refine in 15 years or 25 or 30 this is what this payments would look like. If you made a payment of an extra whatever, you can choose that within the...within the portal. It will show you how much you'd save over the course of the loan. If you're to Airbnb out a room it will show you, you know, based on the average in your area how much your revenue you would have, you know, extra per month.  [Chris]:  So hold on. On a per-room basis? [Christian]:  Yeah. [Chris]:  Wow that's cool. That's really cool.   [Christian]:  Yeah so it's got all sorts of cool analytics, you know, that show you all your options. And, you know, and it has its own firm within it. You know, you're...you're the one that's branded in there and, you know, so it's always kind of putting the bug in the air. If like “Oh look at this is, what the market's done. This is what my house may be worth…” You know, and prompts them to like “Get a CMA from your agent”. And then it has all the links in the backend of like “How many have been sent out, what are they clicking on, do they open it?” But like the open rates and click through rate on this stuff is way, way higher than any email. You don't care how cool and revolutionary your, you know, your email marketing is.  [Chris]:  Like what are you talking like… [Christian]:  If you're...if you're killing it with the email marketing you have like a 30% open rate. I think the average in our industry is 16%. So you typically will get 20% where did a lot of, you know, unique content it's just... it's hard to get people's attention. And, you know, in email marketing so...so this is… [Chris]:  Have you heard from your clients on what they think of it?  [Christian]:  I mean we…were pretty early on and using it. So not yet. But I know some agents that I really respect, you know, they're really killing it. And they've got great things to say about how you've actually gotten the listings from this tool, you know, from people that are their clients and the other people who aren't their clients. So if you can use it as…as marketing and lead gen as well, even though it's kind of set up and branded as something to provide value ongoing for your…for your buyers. So that's one…that's one tool. You know, I've got a whole workflow process to stay in touch with them that reminds me to actually, you know, reach out to them.  One good point of contact can be, you know, if with your buyer clients to remind you, you know “Beginning of the year hey don't forget to send out, you know, that…the final settlement statement.” And it gives you a reason to contact them. Say “Hey, you know, here's your final settlement statement in case you misplaced it. You bought a house last year. You're gonna want this for your taxes.” You know, so…so that sort of thing. [Chris]:  That's awesome. Nate what are you doing to continue that relationship afterwards? [Nathan]:  I'm not [censored] out all my data to other people like Christian. [laughter] [Christian]:  [censored] out what data?  [Nathan]:  Just teasing. I keep it simple. The good old 26 and 52 rule. I'm sure one of you know what that is. Right?  [Christian]:  I say marathon. No it's 20 miles. I don't know. [Chris]:  26 contacts for 52 weeks. [Nathan]:  You got it. Keep it simple stupid right. That's…it's…there's 26 letters in the alphabet. You just go down twice. Make…make your phone calls. I don't do anything crazy. Again it's…I call it the…the personalized organic thing. Just call people and say “Hey Chris what's up? How are you? How's the kids?” I think people appreciate that as much. And the reason I do that is because that's what I like. All the [censored] I get in the mail, all the stuff that I get an email, I just hit delete delete delete. Or I throw it in the trash. But if somebody actually takes the time to reach out to me and say “Hey” I find value in that. So I forget who it was talking to the day. They were talking about, you know, lead gen and all that. And they said, you know “Find whatever you're good at and you enjoy doing and do it well.” I don't enjoy making the calls and doing all the other stuff. I'm annoyed by the other stuff. So I therefore don't do the things that I would find annoying. I just rather make a call and say “Hey how are you?” And, you know, my wife was just down you know, in Athens Chris. And did me a favour [crosstalk] Well and, you know, I call it…I called a client, a past client of mine. I said “Hey I know you love creature Conference. Wife's down in Athens.” And he said “Oh my God please have her grab me a case.” Right listen that…that case of beer goes a long way. [Chris]:  Oh yeah.  [Nathan]:  You know. [Chris]:  Because it's not just the beer. It's not the item. The fact that you thought about him.  [Nathan]:  The fact that I thought about him. That's right. Yeah for me it's, you know, that's what works. I…I…I'm really turned off by…I like what Chris and Christian mentioned. And I've looked into that a little bit. Not read a lot on it. What I don't like is these automated things that go out that they don't have…they just…they have no personal feel. And so I think, you know, that's a value out on my side. I think it's where realtors really lose sight. They just…they turn into this transactional thing and they could'tn care less after they're done with you. [Chris]:  So the way Christian's working it I think it's kind of like the best of both worlds. Because utilizing something like this to automate some of the contact, but then also following up within the CRM to make sure that those relationships stay nurtured and that it doesn't become an automated feeling. [Christian]:  Right. Well and…and this isn't a replacement for those touches. This is an excuse to reach out and be like “Hey I just set you up with this cool tool. This is how it works.” And , you know, and, you know, because…because I know for me…I mean the key really is find out something that works for you, that's natural, that you enjoy doing. Because I know for me if I just get a random phone call from someone that I haven't heard from for a while I'm thinking “What do you want? What's your angle?”  Like, you know, and, you know, and I used to kind of approach it when I was a new agent that way. But it always felt weird because I'd be like I just call someone out of the blue and never really coming around to. So I'm kind of looking for business, you know, like “No I am not looking to buy or sell.” So like don't do that. You know, but if you don't have an excuse or you haven't built, you know, done the hard work of building that relationship either through the transaction or afterwards, you know, it's going to come off as I'm calling for a self, you know, motivate gain. As opposed to “Here's a tool you're gonna find really cool. It can benefit you.” And it gives you an excuse to also reach out and contact them, you know, in person. Which really is going to have your biggest…your biggest bang for the buck. You know, over email or text or something. [Nathan]:  I'll be honest too. They're the clients that I don't I don't want a referral from them. And it's not that there was a bad thing or the transaction was bad or anything. I just…they weren't my type of people. And so, you know, I…I don't really need a referral from them. If that makes any sense. I just, you know, it's…it's kind of the way. I am…it's like I developed these almost deep emotional bonds with my client. I mean it's…it becomes a friendship. So, you know, if we're not buddy-buddy afterwards that's OK. You know, and maybe they do refer me somebody but there's some that I just…I don't really give a [censored] about. And I'm OK with that. [Chris]:  Well I think that having an excuse to reach out to people is definitely a good thing. There needs to be a few touches where, you know what, you're calling them just to call them. And make them feel like you were just thinking about them. But one of the things that I've kind of talked about with my agents over the last few years, is that keep it…keep a tab on when the anniversary of their house is and every year send them a CMA. Let them know “Hey this is what your home value is.” Seems like Home bought does that on a regular basis for you. So… [Christian]:  You can still send out your own or call them.  [Chris]:  Yeah send out your own and call them. And check in on the value of the house. In Georgia we have a lot of…we have homestead exemptions where the tax break is different on your personal property. And that has to be filed by a certain date each year. So before that filing date, January, February, having the agents contact their clients from the past year and reminding them “Hey don't forget to file for your homestead exemption.” There are…there are lots of reasons to reach out to people over the…for post closing. And I think that, you know, as long as we're doing it that's the most important part. [Christian]:  Yeah oh no sorry I mean to interrupt. [Chris]:  No go ahead.  [Christian]:  OK. The…what we're talking about so is kind of the ongoing long-term stuff, right. [Chris]:  Yeah. [Christian]:  You know….you know, if a big thing to you is providing, you know, an exceptional client experience is something that's gonna, you know, help, give them something to talk about so they're actually, you know, advocating for you. You know, something that's been really effective for us is doing a complimentary housewarming party. You know, for us we have a lot of people here that are new to the area and, you know, they may not, you know, have a close network of family in whatever. And something that if we can provide some drinks and some appetizers and organize it for them, and there is this, you know, fun event to welcome in their neighbours and their friends and co-workers and whatever else. Like that that is going to be way more impactful and help you build relationship with them. And something remember then, you know, customized steak knives or some cheesy ask-your-realtor closing gifts [laughter]. [Chris]:  Yeah. [Christian]:  You know, I mean closing gifts are a huge waste of money and time if you're just trying to like get your quote brand in front of them on some cheesy kitchenware. [Chris]:  Cutting board or knives or…Nothing against Costco but frankly… [Nathan]:  I go for the experience over…over the things. I mean items are forgettable experiences. It's much harder to forget. [Chris]:  Yeah I mean that's like gift-giving 101. Right you give a gift that you…that means something to the person not because you want to give the gift. Like if you're gonna give a gift you make sure “Hey look this is…this is…I'm giving it to you because I think this is something that's gonna mean something to you”. Not “Hey I'm giving it to you because, you know, this is my personal brand and this is what I do.” Like everybody. Because now you no longer stand out like somebody that is thinking about them. You just stand out as, you know, they're one of everybody now. So it's making people feel unique, I think is definitely a huge thing on the gift-giving front. And Client Giant does that, right? Christian you're using them. [Christian]:  Yeah, yeah they do kind of like touch point, you know, gifts when you passed your inspection. And then, you know, half of your transaction they'll send out moving boxes and your closing gift and move your utilities over. And, you know, all with handwritten notes from, you know, white gloves. Coming from you. And if it's…if the gift doesn't seem like something that's appropriate for your client you could, you know, send a message say “Hey do you have something else because blah, blah, blah, blah.”  You know, if they don't cook they don't a cutting board or whatever. You know. [Chris]:  Yeah I mean and for some people like a housewarming party that's gonna be a big thing. Unless they hate people. [Christian]:  If they're so introvert that's probably not a good gift.  [Chris]:  They're probably not gonna want that. But I think your idea behind that is that during the course of that relationship you're gonna determine whether or not that person is somebody who's gonna want that. [Christian]:  Sure. Well it's great because it it's something that they may want to do but may never get around to. Or it's a big hassle. And it also gets you in front of all of their closest people, you know, so it's a natural networking, you know. Because I mean they're gonna be like “Oh here's my agent that helped me blah blah blah.” They'll be talking you up, hopefully, if you did good job, you know. So all sorts of opportunities, you know, for you. But then also for your client. You know, because I mean you don't just want to be thinking about, you know, ask ask ask. You're gonna be like give give give give. And they're doing the, you know, reciprocating and advocating for you without you having to directly ask them. [Chris]:  Sounds good. So we're…we're approaching the halfway mark in the episode now. So we're gonna go ahead with week two of doing the re:Think Realty bonus thoughts. So as I'm just seeing this for the first time. These are some thoughts on things that exist in real estate and we're gonna get everybody's two thoughts on it.  [Christian]:  What is it? [Chris]:  Signs in neighborhoods and in houses. OK so this one I think this is signs that have been found in houses.  [Christian]:  Not signs from God? [Chris]:  Not signs from God. But these are some signs that have been found in houses and in neighborhoods. I just want your first reaction on them. Christian you're gonna go first. [Christian]:  Yeah well so I show the house. [Chris]:  I've got some some here that I'm gonna read off. I want your reaction on them. [Christian]:  Yeah. Oh I got you. I got you.  [Chris]:  So a sign that says “Please do not drink this water.” Above a toilet. [Christian]:  Yeah w-wait that'd be weird. That would be weird. I have never seen that.  [Chris]:  Yeah that's a little weird. “Please do not flush paper towels tissues and wipes kitchens…kittens and puppies hopes and dreams. Thank you.” [Christian]:  OK OK trying to be funny. Cute. [Chris]:  Trying to be funny. Thing…things in houses. “Beware of smartphone zombies.” Nate. [Nathan]:  Stupid.  [Christian]:  Stupid. [laughter] Hard crowd today.  [Chris]:  “Don't make our butts pick up your cigarette buds.”  [Christian]:  OK. [Chris]:  The roaches are getting cancer. [Christian]:  Cool. [Nathan]:  I mean… [Chris]:  Found in neighbourhoods.  [Nathan]:  Yeah that's gotta be somewhere like [crosstalk]. [Chris]:  Yeah like an ATA. What are some weird signs that you guys have seen in houses? Anything? [Christian]:  Well…Sorry go ahead Nate. [Nathan]:  Well I mean I've never seen it on a sign. I have seen it on a billboard. It's in Atlanta and it stands out. But that's the only one that ever…you know. [Chris]:  Which one? [Nathan]:  One for the pink pony it says “Do you love candy? We do too and all our friends.” [laughter] OK that's creative marketing but like I've never seen like…I've never seen signs. I've seen things displayed that I thought were inappropriate. Maybe.  [Christian]:  OK. If it's inappropriate for Nathan it's gonna be really bad. [Chris]:  Oh yeah. You gotta share that. You can't let us hang. [Nathan]:  So no like I got a client ready to list his house and, you know, he was a good old boy. And that's fine. But he had rebel flags and things of that nature all over the home. And some other very derogatory racist things that, you know, he's like “What do you think I should do with them?” And I said “You take them down.” Like, you know, cuz somebody like might come and burn your house down. Yes that's right. Yeah but it's like, you know, I've seen things like that. But not, you know, not sign…signs that are cute or… [Chris]:  Things that are divisive. [Nathan]:  Yeah right. like you want to sell your house. You don't wanna have it burnt down. [laughter]. [Christian]:  Yeah I mean I've…I can't think of any, you know, memorable signs per se. But I do remember showing a house once where, you know, sometimes listing agents will have like, you know, house signs up on the wall or whatever to like highlight unique things about the property. And this person went to town. I mean I walked in and it was like just signs everywhere on everything. I was surprised they had like a sign on the floor that said like “Floor”. [laughter] You know, I mean it was…it was over the top. I took some pictures of it because I was like “Why do they have a sign in the kitchen saying, you know, “Kitchen counter”. Like obviously it's a kitchen counter. That's not a unique feature.” Like… [Chris]:  Nice.  [Christian]:  Yeah it was ridiculous.  [Chris]:  That's good stuff. There wasn't one of my properties or one that I've shown but there's an agent that I know here in Atlanta, and she posted the other day a property she was in. It was like an old commercial property and there was like makeshift altars and just like the stuff nightmares are made out of. They had upside-down crosses. They had crucifixes. Like in the basement to support beams they had like big crucifixes. It was absolutely bizarre and there's a lots of… [Christian]:  Blood pools on the floor or anything? [Chris]:  No no I didn't see any blood pools but it did look like it was like an old school. So imagine like an old like elementary school basement. Like tiny windows like 1942…15 build. [Christian]:  Hounted.  [Chris]:  The windows are like plastered over. Like and then you just see these crosses that have giant crucifixes. And look…and there was like altars. And just weird. There were mattresses on the floor like something weird was going on there. So yeah there's crazy stuff out there. But that that kind of ends this segment of re:Think Real Estate bonus thoughts. Tell us what you think, whether you like it or not. Just kind of switching it up a little bit. Leave us a message on Facebook. Shoot us a review. Comment on the website rtrepodcast.com. And make sure you sign up for our newsletter.  So getting back to our topic today talking about continuing the relationship with your clients post-closing. And we've covered a lot about how to just keep talking to them. And basically just keep talking to your clients. But how do we…how are we able to make sure that we're doing that? And I want to talk to you Christian on this. Because I know we all kind of gave up on Nate ever building out his CRM. [laughter] So that…you're never gonna live there. But Christian so it…how are you utilizing your CRM to continue your client relationships post-closing? [Christian]:  Yeah I mean in a nutshell I'm using it as a tool…as a tool to remind me to stay in touch with, you know, my clients. It's not doing it for me. It's not a drip campaign. It's not automated in that sense. I still have to take action. I still have to send an email or still have to call them. So I mean that's…that's what I think the real strength of technology is. Because usually if something's fully automated people can tell. And it's really hard or if not impossible to have that personalized touch, you know, and so I use the technology to remind me to send out, you know, anniversary email. And I usually coupled that with, you know, once again we're talking about to buyers, you know, homeowners. Couple that with a handwritten note and maybe a CRM or, you know, one-page snapshot about their house or something. So trying to hit multiple layers not just like once a year they hear from me from an email or a phone call. It's, you know, a layered effect. Where Brian Buffeny [phonetics] says is a stacking effect. So, you know, you strategically have OK an email followed up by a call followed by, you know, a handwritten note or something. Yeah whatever seems like… [Chris]:  Different avenues. [Christian]:  Exactly different…different touchpoints that's complement each other. Not that look sporadic and un-thought through or inconsistent.  [Chris]:  So using the CRM to remind you to do this stuff, how difficult was it to set that up? [Christian]:  I mean that's the…the big challenge I think for a lot…for a lot of agents, you know. They got great ideas but, you know, how they do it or how they have time to do it or it seems so daunting that they never do. You know, from for me it was like “OK here's my process.” I mapped it out and then I found the platform to be able to do that. For me it's Realvolve. And so over one, you know, Christmas break I basically took a week and set out and just built out workflows. Not the funnest thing to do but I mean it's…it enables you to really provide that client experience and make a consistent thing. Then, you know, I'm kind of constantly tweaking it as, you know, I'm refining my process and whatnot.   And as a brokerage owner we provide all that to our agents, which is a huge value gained over maybe, you know, a brokerage that provides a CRM but there's no processes involved. They just have an address book that they have to upload stuff into, you know. So to be able to have, you know, those reminders and touch points all built out and stuff for you is pretty big. [Chris]:  Awesome. Yeah that is huge and kudos for you for building that out for your company. So Nate I know you're not using a CRM, what are you using to track…like making sure that you're going through the alphabet twice every year? And you're using the…what is that? Just your phone? [Christian]:  Garmin [phonetics]? You're using your Garmin? Your phone? If you unmute yourself we could hear you a little better.  [Nathan]:  Yeah. Yes I am using what you thought. Yes that's…I am not… [Chris]:  Our audience can't see us.  [Nathan]:  Yes sorry. Yeah the iPhone, the iPhone X. Give me that. But yeah and I use my brain, you know. It's  our computer out there. Right. [Christian]:  That's the most defective part of man.  [Nathan]:  I know I get crazy with it. Could I be better? Oh absolutely. But I'm forwarding… [Christian]:  When you gonna build out your CRM Nate? Just think about workflows. You just asked for those.  [Nathan]:  I don't know. I just…I discontinued Realvolve months ago. [crosstalk] [Christian]:  The decline starts. [Nathan]:  Why pay for something that I'm not using.  [Chris]:  That's a big thing with real estate where agents pay for things they're not using all the time. And the whole power of a CRM, everybody asked “What's the best CRM out thee?” “The one you use.” [Nathan]:  Yeah, you know, and then I use Google for about everything else. And I use Google a lot so if you wanted to say I had a CRM, Google I mean…I use all my transactional stuff, timelines, everything. All that is all built into Google. So I've in essence created what works for me. I guess if you would. But I don't have a traditional third-party both on technology. But again I use Google. It's a free platform and I like it. So… [Christian]:  You just mean like the calendar essentially? You're… [Nathan]:  Yeah. [Christian]:  What aspect of Google? [Nathan]:  Yeah the calendar, the contacts, the whole shebang. I mean docs. All of it. I mean what else do I use? [Christian]:  How does that…how does it help you with your…when you're working through a transaction? Or  staying in touch with clients? Is that just like a reminder? You have on your calendar? [Nathan]:  Yep. I plug all the relevant dates into my calendar. And then I set reminders. And that's what I do. And that works for me.  [Christian]:  Well if it works… [Nathan]:  Luckily…luckily for us here in Ohio, contracts aren't that difficult. You know, the timelines they're not…it's not rocket science, you know. So… [Chris]:  Yeah I've seen your listing agreement. It's two pages. [Nathan]:  Yeah it's…it's not… [Chris]:  Tiny. [Nathan]:  It's not…it's not complex. So again if you can like…if I go in here, I mean I know when all my stuff's happening because I just put my reminders in there. Make sure you don't have your reminders set ten minutes before. You know, I know people like come in and say “I had it set but then it reminded me 10 minutes before it was due.” I'm like “Yeah you might want to do it a couple days out there.” But… [Chris]:  Maybe. I don't know.  [Nathan]:  There are plenty of CRMs that integrate with Google. I just don't use one. So just me. But again what I do is way different than a lot of people. [Chris]:  Yeah so I do want to talk a little bit more about what you do. Because some of the things that you're doing are very similar to what Client Giant does. [Nathan]:  Yeah. [Chris]:  So instead of using Client Giant, you're actually putting in the legwork to make the client experience special. And…and memorable. So what are you doing in some of your transactions now Nate? [Nathan]:  So I…I mean I stole a lot of J's stuff if you would. Best ideas are stolen. Right? But from having carpets clean, homes clean, cars clean, boxes delivered. There's all kind of different things. It's what I like the ability to do is tailor each one of those to each individual. I don't want it to be every client gets this and every client gets that. Because we all know that every transaction is different and so there may be some concessions I make. I may do something different. Right. I give up part of my commission sometimes to bridge a gap. Right. Does that suffice?  [Chris]:  Good agents do that. [Nathan]:  Right. Does that suffice? Doing something above and beyond for your client? Yeah I think it does. So each one's different but I like to do something that it's just a personal touch. Again we've talked about it before that, you know, you're…you're marketed or branded candle that I really don't like, I don't want in my house anyway. So or you just got paid 10 grand and you bought me a $20 bottle of wine is kind of the biggest f you I think in the world. So again I literally, you know, like I said with the cleaning company I contract with that does house cleaning, carpet cleaning, all that. When I met him I did exactly what Jay said. I said “Hey I have an opportunity for you. If you can do this for me. Give me a better rate and I'll give you business.”  Works out great. I just had an agent the other day she said “Hey who's that guy you use?” He calls me and he's like “Dude thanks so much.” It's been a…it's been a great relationship. But again it's each…each one's different. But like I said a lot of what Jay does. I'll have your carpets cleaned. I'll have your house cleaned. Post…post-closing or before, you know. Just each one's different but I think those things are the value that we need to deliver. I'm helping somebody move. So, you know, it's a… [Christian]:  OK some legwork in there.   [Nathan]:  Yeah you need your house power-washed. Fine so be it. There's different things you can do that I think are way better than a bottle of wine and a candle.  [Christian]:  Yeah well good on you for flushing that out yourself. Like I know initially when I heard Jay's presentation, the setup a 5 star service in a 3 star industry I was like “That's…that's the missing piece”. You know, and I started, you know, flushing out “OK how can I build this out myself?” And then like a month later you came up with Client Giant because, you know, there's so many people in the industry that are…want to do that but I mean that's a big administrative overhead, if you're gonna do that for entire, you know, for your clients or let alone for the entire brokerage, you know. But good on you for doing that. But as a point of clarification, the Client Giant stuff is customizable. So it's not like every…every package is the same. So you do have that option. [Nathan]:  So then let's just check that box where it says I'm a control freak. So… [Chris]:  We didn't know.  [Nathan]:  No I had a client. The one that I told you about in the last episode with the, you know, that I told her that her paint was F-ing ugly with the wallpaper. [Chris]:  Yeah. Like “What do you think of this room?” “I think it's [censored] ugly.” [Nathan]:  Yes so I called one of the companies I contract with. Final Touch Painting here. And had him out. We needed to do some painting. And what the bathroom that had the wallpaper and of course I said “Well this is all gotta go” And she's like “What color should I choose? And I looked at her and I said “Jane what do you mean?” She says “What color should I choose?” I said “You don't get to choose.” She said “Why not?” I said “You're selling the house. It's not yours anymore.” She goes “Are you gonna let me make any decisions?” And I said “No I'm not.” She goes “OK”. [laughter]. And might you, my broker is with me on this appointment and he's like “How do you get away with that stuff?” I am like “I don't know”. But, you know, again it's…it was great. I loved it and, you know, she wants to be…I don't, you know, she wants to be told what to do to get her house sold. I think people appreciate that. [Chris]:  I think a lot of…in those interactions I think a lot of agents are afraid of making the wrong decision so they don't make decisions at all. And I think that's part of the reason why a lot of people don't see value in real estate agents. Because they feel like “Oh this person is just gonna be a yes person. This person…what am I paying them for? Walk me through a contract when they're just gonna ask me what I want in the contract?” You know, don't be afraid to grow some. And, you know, actually have a conversation where you're taking the lead and walking your clients through it. Because it's part of being memorable.  [Nathan]:  And being a professional.  [Chris]:  Definitely part of being a professional. Definitely part of being memorable. And if you're doing a good job then guess what? It's a lot easier to keep that relationship alive post-closing. [Christian]:  Yeah. If you're just an order taker I mean it's gonna be harder to justify, you know, the…some of…some of the rates that are common for agents. You know.  [Chris]:  Yeah. You go to a great restaurant you're not telling the chef what to cook. [Nathan]:  Exactly.  [Chris]:  Alright I think...I think that just about does it for this week's episode of re:Think Real Estate. Thank you all so much for tuning in. Again please don't forget go to our rtrepodcast.com. Sign up for the newsletter so you don't miss a beat when we drop a new episode.  [music]  [Chris]: Thanks for tuning in this week's episode of the re:Think Real Estate Podcast. We would love to hear your feedback so please leave us a review on iTunes. Our music is curtesy of Dan Koch K-O-C-H, whose music can be explored and licensed for use at dankoch.net. Thank you Dan. Please like, share and follow. You can find us on Facebook at Facebook.com/rethinkpodcast. Thank you so much for tuning in everyone and have a great week.  [music]  

Carmela, Jonathan and Chris are joined this week by Nick Brooks for a fantastically fun game. Enjoy! --- Send in a voice message: https://anchor.fm/trivial-warfare-trivia/message

Carmela, Jonathan and Chris are joined this week by Nick Brooks for a fantastically fun game. Enjoy!

Great discussion with Allan Tépper. He is the host of Beyond Podcasting, as well as a  a Pro Audio/Video specialist, tech journalist, broadcaster, author and consultant. (and my previous guest on episode 74) *DISCLAIMER: We are not advocating for anyone to switch from MP3 to AAC (.m4a). If you're contemplating it, please do more research and decide for yourself. We discussed many aspects of MP3 vs. AAC (.m4a): Advanced Audio Coding is designed to be the successor of the MPEG-1 Audio Layer 3, known as MP3 format, which was specified by ISO/IEC in 11172-3 (MPEG-1 Audio) and 13818-3 (MPEG-2 Audio) The widespread reluctance to even THINK about publishing podcast episodes in any other format than MP3. .m4a is the most common extension, but not the only extension, used for AAC. Sound quality: AAC sounds better than MP3 especially when encoded at lower bitrates. This means that your final episode file can be smaller in size and still sound as good or better than MP3. Chris's experience: "When I convert my .WAV file to MP3 using iZotope RX 7, the resultant MP3 is 0.4 LUFS lower in volume than the original .WAV. Whereas when I convert to .m4a the resulting LUFS level of the .m4a is exactly the same as the original .WAV file. Interesting..." Compatibility with ad insertion platforms: Rob Greenlee says, "Hey Chris, Most of the platforms that utilized dynamic ad insertion technology, oftentimes require MP3 files only." TPES episodes that published in .m4a: 118 - Chris’s Goody Bag 119 - Bryan Entzminger ID3 Tags: Bryan Entzminger says, "I did a test with an episode. I didn’t like that Libsyn didn’t pull the id3 info from the file (because it’s not an MP3) but that’s not a really big deal." A few popular shows that use .m4a files: Podnews (James Cridland’s show, @ 44.1 kHz so far) 60 Sec Torah Byte (Zalman Levin / Podbean 44.1 kHz so far) Morning Mantra (Coach MK / Anchor) BeyondPodcasting (Allan Tépper’s show, @ 48 kHz) Podcast Engineering Show (Barry and Chris’s show, @ 48 kHz) Technical analysis of top podcasts - James Cridland’s post looking at bitrate. LUFS, mono/stereo, etc.: https://podnews.net/article/podcast-analysis?utm_source=podnews.net&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=podnews.net:2019-01-17 AAC's improvements over MP3 (from Wikipedia) Blind tests in the late 1990s showed that AAC demonstrated greater sound quality and transparency than MP3 for files coded at the same bit rate. Improvements include: more sample rates (from 8 to 96 kHz) than MP3 (16 to 48 kHz) up to 48 channels (MP3 supports up to two channels in MPEG-1 mode and up to 5.1 channels in MPEG-2 mode) higher coding efficiency for stationary signals (AAC uses a blocksize of 1024 or 960 samples, allowing more efficient coding than MP3's 576 sample blocks) higher coding accuracy for transient signals (AAC uses a blocksize of 128 or 120 samples, allowing more accurate coding than MP3's 192 sample blocks) much better handling of audio frequencies above 16 kHz more flexible joint stereo (different methods can be used in different frequency ranges) Encoding: *NOTE: NONE of these lists is exhaustive. We did not investigate every single program in existence ;) Programs that can encode .m4a files: iTunes Fission (Mac only. Also can tag and create chapters. Allan Tépper’s favorite 1-track audio editor for Mac. Unique because it can also edit lossy formats without generation loss. Can’t save tag data but can copy and paste tag data. Chris was confused because Fission’s tag data doesn’t have a ‘Copyright’ field.) Hindenburg Journalist Pro (also can tag and create chapters. Allan Tépper’s favorite multitrack audio editor for conventional computers) TwistedWave (Mac and online only. Good program but no playback speed adjustment!) Amadeus Pro 3rd Party Encoder Plugins (Paul Figgiani suggested Sonnox’s Codec Toolbox ~47 USD and Pro Codec ~400 USD.) Programs that encode MP3s using the Fraunhofer MP3 Encoder algorithm: Adobe Audition iTunes (Source: Cliff Ravenscraft on October 27, 2010) Windows Media Player (Source: Richard Farrar) Programs for which you can buy an optional Fraunhofer plugin for US$339.15 Pro Tools Logic Cubase Nuendo Sequoia Wavelab Programs that DON’T use the Fraunhofer MP3 Encoder algorithm: Hindenburg Reaper RX 6, 7 Players Compatibility with players and apps: .m4a files are compatible with all podcast players we could find. Thanks for sharing so much great info, Allan! DID YOU KNOW........We exist for the purpose of helping you, so please comment below with any questions or remarks. We appreciate you listening. Want to Start a Business or Have a Career as a Podcast Producer/Engineer? Listen and Subscribe in Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Google Podcasts, iHeartRadio, Stitcher, TuneIn, Android, RSS, Email

People literally ask me this one question ALL THE TIME… “Allen, how did come up with such a lucrative, safe, and easy way to trade?” I explain it all in my new book Passive Trading, get your free book here  https://www.passivetrading.com/free-book! Option Genius was built with you...the individual trader, the breadwinner, the dreamer, the rock your family depends on ...in mind. Because we know what it takes to become a successful and profitable trader. And that’s exactly what we help you do best. Get your $1 trial of Simon Says Options, our most conservative and profitable trading service here https://simonsaysoptions.com/stockslist-ss-trial-offer.  -- Today, I have an awesome guest with me. I have Mr. Chris Miles from moneyripples.com. And I am bringing him on because I've learned a lot from him in the past from his audio course and his podcast about how to actually get more money out of what we already get. Right? So, you know, if you read the book of "The Richest Man of Babylon", the idea is to pay yourself first. Well, Chris goes much farther and much deeper into that. And he's all about cash flow. I would say that he is a finance advisor without being a financial planner type of thing. So, he's not gonna tell you what socks to put your money in or what mutual funds to put your money in. But he will actually help you keep more of your money by finding ways to save it, by finding ways to save on your taxes, by giving you ideas that up 'til now have been privileged of the rich. You know? Because the rich, they're not afraid of loop holes. They know all the loop holes because they can afford to pay for advisors. Chris is the advisor to the every man. Is that right, Chris? Is that a fair portrayal? Chris Miles: Yeah. I would say I'm kind of like an anti-financial advisor, if anything. I'm an absolute mutual fund hater. You know? I believe that if everybody's gonna invest in anything, they're gonna invest in things that they could control and do themselves, which is what you're teaching. Resources: http://moneyripples.com/   Podcast Transcript Allen: Hey there, Option Nation! How you doing today? This is Allen back with another interesting episode. Today, I have an awesome guest with me. I have Mr. Chris Miles from moneyripple.com. And I am bringing him on because I've learned a lot from him in the past from his audio course and his podcast about how to actually get more money out of what we already get. Right? So, you know, if you read the book of "The Richest Man of Babylon", the idea is to pay yourself first. Well, Chris goes much farther and much deeper into that. And he's all about cash flow. I would say that he is a finance advisor without being a financial planner type of thing. So, he's not gonna tell you what socks to put your money in or what mutual funds to put your money in. But he will actually help you keep more of your money by finding ways to save it, by finding ways to save on your taxes, by giving you ideas that up 'til now have been privileged of the rich. You know? Because the rich, they're not afraid of loop holes. They know all the loop holes because they can afford to pay for advisors. Chris is the advisor to the every man. Is that right, Chris? Is that a fair portrayal? Chris Miles: Yeah. I would say I'm kind of like an anti-financial advisor, if anything. I'm an absolute mutual fund hater. You know? I believe that if everybody's gonna invest in anything, they're gonna invest in things that they could control and do themselves, which is what you're teaching. So yeah. I started out being the traditional financial advisor 17 years ago and I did that for four years. But, it didn't take me long to realize that even after decades of advice, people were still not any better off financially. They follow that, kind of, crappy advice. And I learned with people that were like friends of mine, they were millionaires and things like that, they didn't believe that advice. They thought that advice was stupid about saving for the long haul and diversifying in all these different funds, which really isn't diversification. Right? It's just putting your money all in the same kind of asset class and just hoping and praying that you're in it for the long haul, however long that is. Even if you lose money, oh well. You're in the market so stay in for another 15 years and maybe you'll make your money back. All that kind of crap that you're told by financial advisors, right? So, yeah. I left that about ... after four years of doing that, I left it, vowed to never do it again, was able to retire in 2006 when I was 28 years old. And then, of course, went through the recession. Actually went from millionaire to upside down millionaire, was in a million dollars of debt when that hit. Was able to dig back out of that without going through bankruptcy and was able to retire again about two years ago. This time with a lot more streams of income and a lot more safe guards in place to make sure that I keep it coming in. Allen: I mean, I'm interested in knowing how you did that both times. How did you retire twice? Chris Miles: Yeah, the first time was pretty accidental. You know? It was March of '06 that I went to a seminar that some of these guys put on. And they were talking about how financial advisors basically suck. And I was the only financial advisor in the room by the way. But I couldn't deny the truth. I mean, when they said, "Hey, high risk create high returns. So if that's true, how is that 90 percent chance of losing create a 90 percent chance of winning? That's dumb. No, you want lowest risk possible, create the highest returns, right?" And things like that. So, I've vowed never to teach about money again. I just basically said I'm gonna do mortgages. I'm gonna teach ballroom dancing at the local university. And so, I did! I was starting to do that but then I wanted to get to know more about what these guys knew. So, I started to learn more about what they did and one really rocked my world because there's people still coming to me asking me financial questions, even though I said, "Hey, I don't want to do that." But I was learning different strategies. I learned about leverage. Like, "Hey, could I use the equity from my house to create more returns?" And things like that. In situations, the focus were on cash flow. That was one of the biggest shift in me was when it was it wasn't about how do you compound your interest and things like that. But how does this actually create real streams of income? Real cash flow? I remember people were asking me questions and one of my friends said, "Hey, do you like doing mortgages?" And I said, "You know, I like teaching them but I, seriously, hate doing paper work." I hate when I tell people, "Hey, I'll be like three or four weeks before we're ... we got approvals. We're done here. So hang tight." And then the next day, they're like calling me up saying, "Hey, are we closed yet?" They're calling all hours of the day. That was annoying for me. So he said, "Well, why don't you find somebody who actually does like doing that?" In a scarcity world like I was in as a financial advisor, 'cause financial advisors teach out of scarcity. It's always lack and never enough and all that kind of stuff. Well, I never thought about splitting commissions and things like that. When he said that, I was like, "Wow! I could do that." So, I found a guy that was really good at doing the paperwork, didn't mind doing the underwriting but wasn't a big marketing kind of guy. Good guy with integrity. So I just said, "Hey, if I basically spoon feed people to you to where they're ready to do it, I just need your help to do the paperwork. Would you split me in 50/50?" And the guy's like, "Yeah, of course." I'm like, "Sweet!" And so, I would educate people for maybe half an hour to an hour max about ways they can leverage their mortgage and refinance and free up cash flow and stuff. They were like, "Great! Well, who do we go talk to?" I'm like, "Go talk to this guy." And next thing you know like a month or so later, I get a check for like a thousand or fifteen hundred bucks. I'm like, "That's like a thousand dollars an hour! That's way better!" This is great! And so, I started doing it with other companies. I even did it with a wholesale jeweler, getting paid five percent on any sale. And I was like, "Hey, these guys are like two, three times cheaper than the malls. Use these guys instead. They're great." Or,"There's other companies." And between these four or five different companies, I was seriously making four, five grand a month passive income. Like, I was doing very little to get. I was only working a few hours a week to make that money. And that's when it hit me 'cause at that point, I mean this is 2006. I only had two kids at the time. So, it was like by July of '06, I'm like, "Dang! That was only four months after I quit being a financial advisor and I thought I have to work forever and save every little penny and be cheap until I was 40 to be able to retire." And here I am doing it four months later with no real money in the markets. Just purely because of referrals. So that was the first way I did it. And then I started building it out of things like real estate income and things like that. By the way, at the same time, I was actually stock coaching and teach people how to trade stocks and options. So every money I was making from that was purely gravy. It was just like, "Well that's extra six grand or so a month. I can go and invest myself." I was having fun with it. So anyway, this last time around though, to be able to hit that retirement nest, I decided to create very multiple streams of income. It's not just from referrals but I was doing it from like my podcast. Can I get paid for advertising and things like that? Could I get paid from certain affiliates? Or could I get paid from monthly programs I have for clients and things like that? Where it's more system based versus me, my own time and attention. Pretty soon, same thing. But this time it wasn't like four or five grand a month 'cause I've got eight kids now with a blended family. Allen: Wow! Chris Miles: So, three or four, five grand a month is nothing. For my family, I've got to make at least 15 to 20 grand a month minimum to even make ends meet. So,  that's why it took me until two years to go and do it again even after the whole nest the recession. But yeah, that's really what it was. Investments, business streams, things like that, I found multiple ways to do it and it's awesome. It's ... truly, the key to freedom is creating that cash flow. Allen: So, how do you classify yourself? Like if someone, "Hey, what do you do?" What would you answer to that? Chris Miles: Depends on who's talking to me. I mean, if it's a business owner, I'll say I'm the cash flow expert. But in most time, I just refer myself as the anti-financial advisor because I'm basically against everything financial advisors teach. Allen: Okay. Alright. So our audience is made up of individual investors with a slant towards selling options. So, we focus more on more passive strategies, covert calls, puts, eye condors, credit spreads sells, those kinds of things where we have the probabilities in our favor. We put them on and then we have the time to go do other things while the trades are working for us. And they're not to the point where we have to sit there all day long, monitor them by cell by cell, like a day trading kind of thing. Chris Miles: Yeah. Allen: So, a lot of our people are ... they are already investors so they already have some kind of amount of money to put in. But then we also have a bunch of people who are trying to get in. So they're still working a day job and they're still saving up money and they're still trying to get ... put together an amount of money so that they can go and open an account and start trading. So for those type of people, could you give us a couple of hints of ways that they could generate more cash flow from what they already have? Chris Miles: Yeah! Absolutely! It kind of reminds me of a situation like I actually have one client right now where ... funny enough, he actually is kind of in a similar situation like yourself. He actually teaches people how to trade options. And he came to me, he says, "Okay Chris, I'm great at this." And his strategies more day trading than he does covert calls and things like that. But he's like you know, for myself personally, I love this and I make good money with this but I need other streams of income. Like, I just can't have this. Like this is a good active stream but I want some passive streams too that I don't have to work so hard for. Allen: Mm-hmm (affirmative)- Chris Miles: And so, I was like, "Okay cool." We'll see good stuff. And so we started looking at these like, "Do we do things with real estate?" Or how about oil and gas? I'll tell you like, it's especially if you work at another job, you get crapped on when it comes to taxes. It's horrible. My business owner clients, they love it because we can do all kinds of things ... strategies to minimize taxes. But, using IRA's is a joke when it comes to ... 'cause you don't really save on tax with IRA's. You're just delaying the inevitable. Especially, right now where we have some of the best tax benefits right now. We're at some of the lowest taxes we've ever had in the last century. It's kind of tough to say, "Oh yeah, let's delay tax until later 'cause yeah, tax are gonna keep going down, right?" All that kind of stuff. So people, most time when they come to me where they've had ... they make several hundred thousand a year at their job or they're doctors and things like that. They're looking for options to do. Definitely, options can be great, but a lot of times we would look for other things too of like, "Hey, can we do oil investments where we can write off everything that we're investing that year to bring your income down and stuff." And heck, you're like, "I want to get out of these stupid self-directed IRA's because they're telling me what I can and can't invest in." Cool! Well, maybe we can do some things to offset that. Maybe we do like conservation easement strategy where we donate land and you can write off four times whatever you donate. And that offsets the penalties and taxes if you're not 59 and a half. Like things like that. That's kind of stuff that I usually run into with situations like this. It's ... the biggest thing is like how do we keep as much money as possible and how do we get the money working for us as much to generate that cash flow? Allen: Mm-hmm (affirmative)- Chris Miles: And yeah. I think it's fun. Allen: Okay. I mean, yeah. It sounds like ... so one of our earlier episodes is, we call it ... I called it the five finger strategy where you have to have five different sources of income if you want to be truly, financially independent. Because when you're trading, if that's the only thing you're doing, if you're trading options or whatever. If that's the only thing you're doing, then you have that stress on the top of your head all the time. That I have to make enough to pay the bills. And it's not like where you're working a job where you go in and you know that you're gonna ... you're in the office, you're gonna get paid no matter what as long as the company is still in business. So being a trader is kind of like a sales person or a real estate agent or something like that where you have make the money in order to get it. There's that pressure on you all the time. If you do diversify and you have other streams of income, whether it's real estate or whatever, you can ... it takes the pressure off of you. And then you actually trade better at the same ... in the same regard. Chris Miles: Exactly! Yeah, and that's kind of like why that guy came to me too. He's like, "Okay, I'm rocking the options world but how can I get some pressure off of me?" And even though from a business standpoint and I tell this to business owners all the time, even people that I'm like network marketing. Like, I'll get people network marketing. They're like, "Oh, I'm set for life 'cause I've got", they might have hundreds of thousands of people in their down line and they're making what they refer to as residual income. And I tell you, I've watched those same people lose their businesses, like lose everything. And I tell them like, "How powerful is it if you can work because you want to, not because you have to?" That you've got other streams coming in and you say, "Hey, I don't need to do any more business. I don't need to do this. I'm just doing this 'cause I think it's fun." I think that the way investing should be. I think that's the way everything in our life should be is like, "Hey, I'm doing this because it's fun." And I'll tell you my experience, even with the people I had trained to do, trading with stocks and options, and any other type of investment, any time somebody said, "I think this is just fun. I don't care if I even make money. I think it's a bonus I make money." Whenever they say that, I'll tell you like when I follow them over the years, they just get better and better at that investment or in that business. They just ... things work out. For some people, they're just doing it for the paycheck. It's like, "Well, how's that different than having a job?" That sucks. So, it's true. You want to have multiple streams of income. You want to take that pressure off yourself 'cause you never know. Things might change. You might have to make ... you have to call an audible. That's what happened to me. That's what I did wrong before the last recession is that I was kind of banking ... in fact, I cut off a lot of those strategies, a lot of those income streams right before the recession. 'Cause I remember I was coming out of retirement. I was starting to teach people how to gather a rat race. And I remember the guys I was working with, his partner said, "Hey, well we can't have you doing these other side activities. We need you focused here." So I'm like, "Alright. But to be a team player, quote on quote, and for the mission, alright, I'll cut off these streams of income", which was so dumb. It was idiotic to do that. And it got me from a place of freedom to a place of bondage. Cash flow is really the key to freedom. 'Cause when you have more cash flow, there's more options. And when you have more options, that's when you have freedom. Allen: Right. Now, so you don't think that ... you've always just said that, "Hey, you hate financial planners." So you don't think that they have any value at all? Chris Miles: No, not at all. In fact, I think most financial planners have a good heart. Their hearts in the right place. What's wrong with financial advice is that they've been sold a bill of goods. And they're taught to regurgitate it back to you. Think about it. A bank, if you look at the rules of a bank. What does a bank want you to do when you give them money? They want you put money as often as possible, give them as much as possible, keep in there as long as possible, take out as little as possible and then take all the risks yourself. I mean, that's basically what a bank will have you do. Now, what are we taught to do with investing from the traditional point? They'll tell you, "Hey, put in money all the time, like every paycheck. Put it in all the time because you need that money going in. You need to start stuffing in lots of money and live on the interest." And they'll you, "Hey, put in as much as possible 'cause man, look how much it'll accelerate. And as long as possible, man that miracle of compound interest? Oh it's awesome." Like, "Imagine what your money will look like in 20,000 years!", "Seven percent off the S&P 500 index off the spider." That's after all the fees they've taken out by your financial advisors and stuff. And then they're telling you, "Yeah, don't take any money out. Like you gotta live on less than an interest." And it always seem dumb to me. I was like, "Wait!" Most time you see right now, most is biased. They'll say don't take out more than two or three percent of your account." So if you're a millionaire, you've got a million bucks saved up in a 401K or an IRA, they're basically telling you to live below the poverty line at 20 or 30 thousand dollars a year. I mean how is that right? I think that's stupid. So you have to, I mean really, I actually ran the numbers if someone wanted to retire in the next 20 years and you want to have a $60,000 dollar a year lifestyle which is not great. That's $5,000 a month. And you factor for inflation? Based on the current just typical mutual funds and stuff like the ones that are in the marketplace right now. You would have to save, I'm kidding you not, like adjust for inflation, everything, to pull out what they recommend pulling out, you gotta seriously save about $10,000 dollars a month for the next 20 years to be able to retire at a $60,000 dollar a year lifestyle. And that's just ridiculous. So it's not that the financial advisors are trying to deceive you but they've been sold everything from banks and financial institutions that are teaching everybody was just supposedly the rules of money. But you've been teaching and what I've been teaching as well is that, no, we gotta throw this thing upside down on its head is that, "No, when we take the investments under our own control. We take less risk, not more. 'Cause the banks want you to take all the risk. That's why mutual funded companies like Fidelity and what not, they're not gonna tell you like, "Hey, we're gonna take some risks for you. If you lose money, we do too." It's like no. They take their guaranteed fees, no matter what. Whether you may get it, they're making money. They take no risk. You're the one that takes all the risk. And that's why you've been taught, "High risk creates higher return." 'Cause they want you to actually believe that you have to take all the risk. And that's just bull crap. You don't. Allen: Yup. Yup. So, in your ... like for your clients and what not, what type of financial products do you recommend? Chris Miles: You know, it really depends. Everybody has their own recipe. I mentioned earlier, we talked about finding things that light you up. What are the investments that you're just like, "Wow, that'd be fun!" It could be ... if it's options trading? Sweet! Let's make that like your active investment. You're totally rocking it and building up your cash and everything possible to make more. Then outside of that, cool, maybe look for passive streams. And that could be in different aspects of real estate. It could be in oil and gas. It could be with different notes or funds. I know funds out there that'll pay you consistently 10 percent a year but paid out monthly. So, if you got $100,000 bucks, they'll pretty much pay you about $830 ... what was that? What is it? Like $830 somewhat dollars a month just on that. You don't have to do anything. You don't have to worry about it. You just let them take care of it. They're investing their own stuff. Allen: So what type of funds are those? Chris Miles: That one particular company, that one's one that invest in mortgage, like delinquent mortgages. And they help people refinance and so this is buy-out huge portfolios of mortgages from banks and then try to refinance people and keep them in their home or help them sell their home and split the equity and that kind of stuff. Allen: Ah, I see. Chris Miles: So, I mean, and like the one company I've referred people to, they're actually reports of the FCC every year. They're monitored by them. But they're own portfolio usually makes at least 39, 40, 50 percent a year. But they'll pay investors, people that basically loan money to them like 10 percent, paid out monthly. Allen: Wow! Chris Miles: Not huge. That's like, for me, that's the low-end of the return scale. I like higher. I mean I know other funds that might do 12 percent or more if you let it reinvest. Turn-key real estate. I have turn-key being hands off, you don't have to deal with anything but you get to collect the checks. I mean, some of those can easily do at least 10 or 12 percent a year. And that's just cash on cash. That's not including the tax benefits or appreciation or the fact that they're paying your mortgage down for you which could lead to easily 20, 30, 40 percent year over year cash on cash return. Allen: So what would be an example of turn-key real estate? Chris Miles: Yeah. I'll give you an example. Recently, I bought a property in Memphis, Tennessee. And I didn't have to find the property, I just used a turn-key provider that found the properties and said, "Here's a list. Which one do you like?" I said, "Well, that one looks sweet. That one's paying 14 percent cash on cash right of return, so I'll take that one." Bob that, after interest rates kicked in a little bit when the interest rates climbed a little bit, it ended up being more like 11 percent cash on cash. So I basically put ... all of a sudden, I put about three grand down. But my cash flow was $270 bucks a month. Allen: Mm-hmm (affirmative)- Chris Miles: And then, the next are $120 bucks a month that's going towards paying down a mortgage. But that's like phantom income. That's like filling net worth and that becomes more important when I sell the property down the road. But the cool thing is actually just recently, we just raised the rent on the renters another $55 bucks a month and they signed a one year lease again. So now it's the ROI's now jumping up. Now it's like $320 or so a month. Now, my ROI's like about 13, 14 percent. Allen: Nice! How many of those do you have? Chris Miles: Those ... I've got a few of those, actually. And then we got like things like multi-family. You could do things like fourplexes, you can even go bigger. 'Cause if you got a lot of cash, our thing is you drop them like 30 grand or 20 grand down as a down payment, you've got like $500,000 dollars. That's a lot of properties to buy. So better is you can go look the fourplex route, which you might put down like a $120 grand or something on. And make money off that. In fact, I just had a deal recently that came across and I was already leveraged from my own money. But there was an offer that came across for a 55+ senior community where I can't remember how many units were in that deal. It was like $2.65 million dollars down payment. But the cash flow was already paid 'cause they were already in it. There was already people paying for it. There were already ... the cash flow was already $311,000 a year. So $2.65 million dollars down for $311,000 a year passive coming in. And the thing that was cool about that is they're still raising the rents. So, they're still trying to make more and more cash flow on that deal. I actually ended up sending it out to my clients. I'm like, "Hey guys, maybe ..." I knew a few of them could do it by themselves but they probably weren't wanting to go on that big. So, I'm like, "Hey, partner up. This is an awesome deal! That's almost a 12 percent right of return from a big deal like this." I mean from that much cash, that's hard to do. Allen: Yeah. Chris Miles: That's not including any appreciation or anything else. That was just purely from the cash on cash returns, you know? Allen: Uh-huh. Yup. It's just that, I think, for most people and I'm sure your clients included, it's ... unless you're really tapped in, it's really hard to find these type of investments. And then, it's hard to know if it's a good investment or not. Right? Chris Miles: Exactly. And that's why you have to have the right relationships, the right connections and stuff. 'Cause, yeah, I didn't have to find those properties. They basically found me. That's what's beautiful about it is that there's an over-abundance of deals out there. That's why I tell people like, "Don't just do something 'cause they'll pay you a lot of money. Do something because it actually is exciting to you beyond the money." There's plenty of things you can do ... there's a million and millions of ways to make millions of dollars. Allen: I'm sure you know that but there's so many people that'd be like, "Well I don't know any of them. I can't find any of them. Where do I find all these deals?" Chris Miles: Well, you know and that's what I teach on my podcast show. The Chris Miles Money Show 'cause like recently, I had a really popular episode with a guy that he actually had him on my show, I think it was like, five years ago. Like early on. And he was talking about real estate and what not and it was cool. Well, I started to see in some of his emails and his emails started turning towards short-term rentals, like Air B&B rentals. And I had a few clients were like, "Hey Chris, what do you think about doing air B&B? What about buying a property and doing air B&B on it?", which I'm like, "That could be cool." But this guy, he's like, "Hey, you know what? You don't even have to buy the property. What if you go to a building, like an apartment building and say, I know you got a ton of these units up for rent right now. How about I just rent all these from you. Let's say there's like six of them that are unrented. I'll just rent all these six units from you. I'm gonna sub-lease them to somebody else but don't worry, I'm gonna be doing all the cleaning. It's gonna get cleaned every week. We'll even clean the vents that you won't do, that your own tenants won't do. We'll keep this probably in better condition than any of your other tenants. And you're gonna get paid every single month. And you don't have any more vacancies. And then you go and you just furnish the place and then you start collecting in like a couple of thousand bucks a month of passive income from the air B&B rentals. And you have your own team that's coming in and that's managing the property so you're not managing it yourself. I mean that kind of stuff is ... that episode right there when he's like, "yeah, you could drop ten grand and furnish a place and you end up making that money back within a year and a half. Then it's just like your cash flowing net at least a thousand bucks a month above and beyond your rent payment." He's like that's ... when you think about that. That's like a 50 percent rate year over year rate of return. That's pretty incredible. More of an active investment? That's a thing about it. There's so many options out there you can do. It's just a matter of one, figuring out what lights you up. That's a lot of times when I have to discuss with people. It's like, "Alright, let's investigate some of these and see which ones you lean towards." Then, create a road map from there, a game plan to get you out of that rat race so you can quit that job or work because you want to, not 'cause you have to. Allen: Okay. Now you also have ideas on how to help people with their taxes, right? How can they ... so like, if you were to give our audience some tips on ways that they can reduce some of their taxes? Chris Miles: Yeah. It depends where you're coming from. If you're already a business owner, you've got lots of opportunities. Sadly, most accountants don't teach you that much what to do. For example, like this year, you're allowed to pay your kids $12,000 dollars a year ... your minor children $12,000 dollars a year tax-free. So I remember I had a woman in California that she had six kids. And she was only paying them $6,000 a year. When she found this out, she started paying them $6,000 a year, saved her $13 grand a year in taxes. And the cool thing is she's still using that same money to pay for the same crap that she was paying for before; schooling, extra curriculars, all that kind of stuff. College savings, if they want to save for college or whatever. But that's like tax-free money. So, if you can get yourself in the business owner status and if you're not there, say you're working for a company or whatever. Then, it's like, "Okay, can we get you to do professional investor status?" And that can be tough to do. There's things to do. It might not be you. You might have to get a spouse to do it depending on who works the least. You kinda have to work ... you have to usually work about an average of 15 hours a week to hit the professional investor status. But if you do, you can actually start claiming losses on your taxes. Making money there. There's things of that. I mentioned a few of those things from the investment world. There's like the oil and gas. You invest a hundred grand in oil and gas this year, usually you can write off at least $85,000 of that. So if you're like, "Hey, I'm making $250,000 a year. I want to get down on the next tax bracket. Cool! Maybe you dump a hundred grand on oil and gas and get the tax write off this year. But then starting in the second year, you start getting cash flow from the investment. Possibly even a 200 or 300 percent rate of return after three to five years on the reposition and sell off their land shares that you're a part owner in and stuff. Or do you do that conservation easement strategy where you donate land, like I mentioned before. You write off four times the amount you donate. So if your land share is $50,000 bucks, you write off $200,000 dollars off your income tax. Things like that. There's so many cool things you could do. It's just depending on where you're coming from. If you're ... the sad thing is if you're an employee, your options are pretty limited. It's pretty much either you get to that professional investor category or do a few of those types of strategies ... those investment strategies. Allen: So now, let me go back. You said for the .. you can pay your kids if you have a business. And now, obviously, the kids have to do something in the business where you have to be able to say that they're providing some type of service. Then you also mentioned that you could pay them $12,000 this year. Now, I've heard of that and I'd do it with my children but we pay them six. Chris Miles: Yeah. That's kind of like until this last year in 2018. Allen: Okay. Chris Miles: Yeah, it used to be $6,000 but then recently with the whole Trump tax plan, they said, "Hey, you can actually do twelve with your kids." It's also justifiable, you can't just pay them for doing nothing. You pay them like you pay any adult for. If it's cleaning or if it's helping you with marketing if you're in business and that kind of thing. Obviously, you gotta be a business owner of some sort. It could be filing. It could be computer work. Come on. You have them help you build a web page if they're better at that than other people, you can easily pay them at least twelve grand a year. Allen: Exactly. Chris Miles: All kinds of stuff. It just depends on your business, the nature of your business and what you can do. The challenge with me is I've got eight kids trying to figure out how to pay them all that much is pretty tough. Allen: And this is only for this year or is it for until they change the tax code? Chris Miles: Until they change it, yeah. Allen: Okay. So there's no time period that says, "Okay, this will be enacted for the next three years," or something. And then it has- Chris Miles: Not that I know of. But, like I said, in two years, we have a new president and new tax bill comes through and who knows? But yeah. In the meantime, we can definitely exploit that fact. Allen: Wow. Yeah, okay. Chris Miles: That's one strategy. Another one that's pretty cool that a lot of accountants never teach because a lot of them just ... by the way, if you ever have an accountant that says, "Oh I'm conservative." What it really means is they're saying, "I'm ignorant." 'Cause they just don't know the tax laws. So they're conservatives 'cause they don't want to go and learn any new strategies. So they just tell you the same old crap. Like for example, there's one and in fact, I had an accountant that told one of my clients, "You cannot do that. That's against tax code." So I found freakin' articles, even in like New York Times and stuff for like this corporate rent strategy as an example. Where if he had a corporation, especially if you work from home, and heck even if you don't work from home. Maybe you just have a home office, you could actually pay to use your house say for one day ... one day's use. Almost like you would for a hotel. If you've ever booked a hotel, like a meeting space or something like that, whether you had people coming there or maybe you just meeting with a potential client or whatever it might be, you say, "Hey, alright, I'm gonna book this hotel meeting space. Yes, I'll pay for the wireless internet. Yes, I'll pay for this. Heck, why not pay for lunch too or catering." You start to add it all up, it's a lot of money for a day's use for a hotel. Well, not too uncommon, you could pretty much see like a day's use of a hotel could be easily be at least ... for cross country, it's different state by state but cross country, like $1250 bucks let's just say for a day's use of a hotel. Well, you could do that same thing by renting your corporation, renting your house from you, personally, for that one day. Now, if you know about rental laws like you don't get tax on rent until it passes 14 days in that year. So, let's just say you only pick one day out of the month that you do something. And it could be something with clients. It could be something not. It could be you're doing a planning meeting inside your own house or whatever. Whatever it might be, you basically use your home for that day's use of business purpose. Well, if you did that for 12 days a year, that's fifteen thousand bucks that you've been paid personally from your corporation. So that's a write off from your company. You're getting a company write off. But that income is income tax-free because you haven't surpassed the fourteen days. So depending on your tax bracket, if you're in a pretty high tax bracket, that could save you at least five or six grand. In fact, I had ... I tested it once. So, I actually ... I had an accountant who forgot to count it and I said, "Hey, hey, go back. This thing right here, this expense, this income is actually should not be counted as income 'cause that was 11 or 12 days of those corporate rent payments." And so he put it back in, he's like, "Oh, let me adjust that." And seriously, it was a six grand savings that year. Allen: Okay, so let me get this clear. If you have a property that you rent out and you  collect income, you collect rental income on that, whether it's a house or a car or whatever- Chris Miles: This is actually for your own home you live in. Allen: Right. Okay, so it's only for your home? Chris Miles: Yep, just for your home. Not talking about the rental properties. This is just for your own house. Allen: And if it doesn't exceed 14 days, there's no income tax on that? Chris Miles: Correct. Yep. And then, tax usually ... if you go over 14 days, it's passive income tax. You're taxed like you are for real estate but as long as you don't go over 14 days a year, that's income tax free to you. Allen: Wow. I didn't know that one. Yeah. Chris Miles: Yeah. It's pretty awesome. I have actually, I have one friend. He has a bigger home and he's like, "Hey, my accountant has me justifying $1500 a month ... or $1500 for that day's use. So he's like, "I'm going all the way up to the 14 days." So he's basically writing off like 21 grand a year. That's saved him probably at least 7 grand in taxes that year. And you're still getting paid. That's the cool thing. You're still paying yourself. But rather than paying yourself, you have to pay income tax and social security tax and everything else, you're taking that totally income tax free. Allen: Hmm. And so how would you ... you have to still report it as income but the accountant should know how to handle that, right? Chris Miles: Yeah. You have to let them know, of course, that that income is from however many days it were in that year for that rent payment. You just have to classify ... tell them that 'cause if you don't, then they will just count it as normal income. But yeah. You just have ... and they can use ... if they know the strategy obviously, they'll see, "Oh, there's that rent payment coming out of your business and there's the income. Perfect." Allen: Awesome. Cool! Yeah, so I think those two tips could save people a lot of money. But both of them, obviously, you have to have a corporation. And I think one of the ... couple of episodes ago, we talked with another one of our traders who had gone ahead and started trading inside of his corporation for an asset protection. That was the main reason, for asset protection, but then he also was able to take out all these expenses as deductions. And then the losses were also classified as differently than on his personal. That helped out a lot as well. Definitely, I think, it'd be good for most traders depending on how much they actually have and how much they could actually save. They could probably easily do this and open a corporation and just do all that stuff out of it. That's really cool! That's really cool stuff! Chris Miles: Yeah. Allen: Is there a way where people can get a hold of you? 'Cause we're out of time here but I know that we could keep talking and I'm sure you have lots of other strategies as well. But is there a way for our listeners to find you and get a hold of you? Chris Miles: Yeah. Like I mentioned, you could check out the Chris Miles Money Show that's on iTunes or you could find it online that way. There's also my website, moneyripples.com. That's M-O-N-E-Y-R-I-P-P-L-E-S dot com. Even if you have questions specifically, you might just say, "Hey, let me send an email Chris." You can just send that email to Chris with a C-H. So, Chris@moneyripples.com. Allen: Cool! Thank you. And before you go, I got one last question for you. Chris Miles: Yeah. Allen: So, let's say, you ran into somebody and you really wanted to impress them with your financial knowledge. Maybe this person is a big whale type person and you're like, "Okay, I want this guy as a client. I'm gonna give him one tip that's just gonna knock his socks off." What would that be? Chris Miles: That's not an easy answer 'cause I always adapt to the person. For me, usually it's mostly listening. All I have to do is usually ask you a series of questions and just find out like where you are and usually, I'll find out something like, "Oh, hey, have you considered this?" So, it could be like conservation easement, like, "Hey, here's a way you can write off four times and get massive savings if taxes are a big pain." Or "Hey, passive income, you want more of that? Dude you can totally rock your world by making passive income over here and doing this kind of stuff." It's not hard for me. It really just depends on the situation where they're at. I would say, probably for me, to knock their socks off, I usually do less. I usually do less talking, more listening. Allen: Mm-hmm (affirmative)- Okay. Alright. Alright, Chris! Well this has been an interesting conversation. Those of you who are looking for more passive streams of income, that are looking to save money on their taxes even, do reach out to Chris. Like you said, there are lots and lots of ways to make money. We just have to find them. So, appreciate it, Chris! Thank you for spending some time with us. Chris Miles: It's an honor. Thanks for having me on your show. Allen: Alright, take care. Chris Miles: Alright, see ya. -- LOVE ALLEN SAMA - OPTION GENIUS AND WANT TO LEARN MORE TRADING TIPS  AND TRICKS? HERE ARE SOME NEXT STEPS... SUBSCRIBE TO OUR PODCAST FREE 9 LESSON COURSE: https://optiongenius.com/ WATCH THIS FREE TRAINING: https://passivetrading.com JOIN OUR PRIVATE FACEBOOK GROUP:  https://optiongenius.com/alliance Like our show? Please leave us a review here - even one sentence helps.   

#PitchChris Episode 20! Topics: -Why is it so important for an actor/actress to build a fanbase? -Should you have different headshots for different roles? -At what point in your career should you bring on a Talent Manager? www.ChrisDeBlasio.com YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/chrisdeblasio Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/ChrisDeBlasi... Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/chrisdeblas... IMDb: https://www.imdb.com/name/nm2134621/ Twitter: https://twitter.com/Chris_DeBlasio Website: https://www.ChrisDeBlasio.com LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/chrisdebl... Onset Atlanta: https://www.onsetatl.com #ChrisDeBlasio #Agency850 #CelebrityCEO #Fanbase #Headshots #TalentManagers On this episode of #PitchChris, Why is it so important for an actor or actress to build his or her fanbase, Should you have different headshots for different roles and At what point in your career should you bring on a talent manager? Hi and Welcome to episode 20 of #PitchChris where you guys ask me questions about the entertainment business and I'm going to answer them for you. To ask me a question, find me on social media @Chris DeBlasio #PitchChris and I'll be happy to answer all the questions you guys have. This first question comes from Keith. Let's see what Keith has got to say. Hey Chris, Keith Kraft here. We're on set here with my production that's going to be Blues

#PitchChris Episode 17!!! Breaking Into the Biz - Money Talks - Headshots On this episode of #PitchChris we're gonna find out how do you break into the entertainment business in Atlanta, Money talks, how do you speak the language and what do casting directors look for when it comes to headshots Hi and welcome to episode 17 of #PitchChris where you guys give me questions about the entertainment business and I answer them for you. To ask me a question find me on social media at Chris DeBlasio #PitchChris and I'll be happy to answer all the questions you guys have. This first question comes from David. Let's see what he's got to say. Hey Chris, I got a quick question for you as a student about to graduate from film school, what is the best way to break into the Atlanta film industry. Hey David, Bravo to you for graduating film school that's a very good task to add to your resume but the biggest piece and learning all of that head knowledge about film school is great but here's the key. Knowing who's around you all those people that are in your classroom all your classmates that key is networking with them so I hope that you connected with them on LinkedIn, Facebook, Instagram whatever it is you want to build that network because I'll tell you some of those people in your class are going to be the next big directors, producers whatever that job may be and the fact that you're connected to them you have that relationship is going to help get you work. The second thing as soon as you get out of film school and you move to Georgia you want to establish Georgia residency because we're only going to be www.ChrisDeBlasio.com YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/chrisdeblasio Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/ChrisDeBlasi... Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/chrisdeblas... IMDb: https://www.imdb.com/name/nm2134621/ Twitter: https://twitter.com/Chris_DeBlasio Website: https://www.ChrisDeBlasio.com LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/chrisdebl... Onset Atlanta:

Copywriter Chris Orzechowski is our guest for the 112th episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast. We met Chris through our friend Kim Schwalm after they got in a bit of a fight over the best kind of clients. Needless to say, we're all friends now, but it was touch and go there for a little while : ). Rob and Kira sat down with Chris to talk about: •  Chris’s path from school teacher and wrestling coach to copywriter •  how he “embraced the suck” to make things work as a marketer •  how his teaching and coaching skills make him a better copywriter •  landing his first “real” clients—what worked and what didn’t work •  the moment he knew things were going to work out •  why you need to treat copywriting like a business and outwork everyone •  the #1 thing copywriters need to do in order to truly succeed •  how to find good retainer clients—exactly what to look for •  how to manage the back and forth with a retainer client •  what Chris charges for retainers and how it’s changed

Chris got fired from his last job, thankfully! He was speaking with co-workers about his affiliate revenues he was making on the side and his boss found out and fired him! Fast forward almost 10 years and Chris is the host of the UpFuel Podcast and an expert in the Amazon Affiliate space. He is the owner of several businesses in the Amazon space, including affiliate, SaaS and physical product businesses. His opinions and recommendations are not theories…they are from real life experiences. Chris is humble…you'll get that in the Podcast. He didn't sell or pitch anything. He just shared his experiences being an Amazon Affiliate entrepreneur. One thing he said over and over when it came to being successful within the Amazon Affiliate space is to “differentiate” your site. Make sure that whatever product line you choose to pursue, that you differentiate your site from others…there needs to be a strong reason why the end user would review products on your site versus the competition. Episode Highlights: Chris has been self-employed for just under 10 years. His Amazon Affiliate income replaced his “job” income…before he was fired. He owns wordpress plugins, saas, affiliate and physical product businesses. Each niche has its strengths. Choose a niche that is of interest if you are starting out. If you are building a portfolio of Amazon Affiliate sites, then a system and process takes precedence over passion. Price point matters GREATLY within the affiliate space. Develop a product review site, not an information site to help buyers make decisions. Content is still critical, and Chris outsources much of it these days. Amazon's cookie length is 24 hours, allowing you to make money off products you are not reviewing. A long term approach is the key to long term success. Building links can accelerate ranking, but is no replacement for good quality content. When buying…beware of PBNs! Transcription: Mark: Joe how are you? Joe: I'm doing fantastic Mr. Daoust, how about you? Mark: Good. I'd understand you talked to a friend of Quiet Light and a friend of Brad one of our brokers here, Chris Guthrie. Joe: Yeah Chris is from UpFuel.com and AmaSuite and I mentioned those upfront because we didn't talk about it at all during the podcast. He's an entrepreneur, have been self-employed for about 10 years, went off on his own after he got fired. He was actually talking to his coworkers and bragging about how much money he was making doing affiliate marketing and his boss found out and fired him; probably the best thing that ever happened to him because he'd been doing very well ever since. And the subject of the podcast is really specifically focused on the Amazon Affiliate Space. Meaning you build the site doing product reviews on say vacuum cleaners and people look at those reviews click on one that they like and it takes them to Amazon, somebody buys it on Amazon and you get paid. And it's really Chris's … one of his areas of expertise and I mentioned Up Fuel which is his podcast and his blog that he talks about this on so I would recommend people tune in. But also AmaSuite which is a software service that he's built that helps people sort of narrow the path in terms of what they want to find, what products, how to … what niche, what category and he didn't talk about it at all. He didn't pitch. He didn't promote so I'm doing a little bit for him because what I was trying to get was a clear path for people that want to either build one from scratch or buy one and grow it or things of that nature. And I think that he was hesitant to talk about his own product because he's such a nice guy. He really … listen Mark I'm going to, don't let this go to your head but he reminded me of you a little bit which is he just wants to have conversations and help people. And when he helps people it comes back around. And it was a great great great show and I think it'll help a lot of people in terms of the Amazon Affiliate Space. Mark: He reminded you of me huh? Joe: Yeah just the better looking, a lot better looking. Mark: The poor fellow. Joe: All right well let's get to it … I mean if you … it's got to be good so let's get to it then. Mark: All right here we go. Joe: Hey folks it's Joe Valley from Quiet Light Brokerage and today I've got Chris Guthrie on the line with me. Hey Chris how are you doing? Chris: I'm doing well thank you for having me. Joe: Chris you're like a … you're a little bit of famous in my world you know. You are. You're like a star. I know you from your podcast and we've run in the same circles for years but didn't get a chance to meet each other until last October right? It's Rhodium Event Weekend out in Vegas. It turns out you're very good friends with one of our brokers here, Brad Wayland. You guys are in the same neck of the woods I think right? Chris: Yeah well actually he's an up and a little bit south to Seattle; he's over several states but- Joe: Okay so in the internet world I guess you're in the same neck of the woods because you're- Chris: That's right. Joe: You should like candies; you guys don't even if grocery's on. Chris: Yeah. Joe: But you talk to each other often? Chris: Definitely, yup. Joe: Well he speaks very highly of you. And I … as I said pre intro here we don't do fancy intros. I don't have your bio in front of me. I know about you. I know what you do a little bit. But I think folks want to hear it directly from you. So why don't you give us a little bit of background on how you got started in the internet space and what you do for a living these days. Chris: Definitely. Yeah so probably the reason why I try and put myself out in the first place is just because it leads to conversations and other different types of opportunities. That's kind of some eyesight a long time ago when I was digging into this online space that I wanted to blog about it and talk about it because it would lead to relationships and friendships that I count people out and they count me out. And that's sort of why when you said the famous thing I think … I don't really think that but it's more just that's kind of why I went with that direction. But yeah I pretty much just have been doing various online businesses now for about 8 ½ years full time. On the Amazon Affiliate Side of things that's actually how I was able to first leave my day job. I was just fired but I left ahead that job and was able to just keep doing online stuff because my Amazon Affiliate income had replaced my day job income. And so I just basically got to work the next day working on building more sites and growing the main primary site I had at the time. But yes so other than Amazon Affiliate thing I also run WordPress plugins, a SaaS company, physical product company, and other different types of Amazon Affiliate or well regular affiliate websites as well. So a bunch of different things along the way but yeah I've been here right for quite a while. Joe: So what's your favorite in terms of running the business? Do you like the physical product space which takes working capital and things of that nature or the Amazon Affiliate Space? Chris: It's tough to say because each one has its benefit. With the affiliate side of things, you don't have any … you don't have to deal with any capital it's just other than your initial capital to invest in the content creation and building a site out. There isn't going to be as many costs associated with that especially once you get up in ranks and start making money. And then there is … in many cases there's less ongoing expenses. But on the physical product side you're constantly putting in more cash and then a lot of cases it's just a matter of trying to lay the damage to yourself for as long as possible so you can continue to grow that business. I mean everyone has a different goal in terms of what they want to do with any business type but in the physical profit side you've got to do … you've got to re-invest so much more. So I can't really answer I guess one way or the other I think it really comes down to what people are most interested in. For me, I like both and so that's kind of why I still kind of have my feet in both areas; both on the physical product side and if the affiliate side and then also selling software and things like that. Joe: Got you. Well as we talked a little bit before we started recording, I've sold a number of affiliate spaces, businesses where they're selling Amazon Affiliate products and making money through Amazon Affiliates. And it's becoming more and more prevalent in some of the event groups like Rhodium Weekend, a lot of folks getting very interested in that. I've always been in the physical products space, I had a couple of content sites and my physical products site was actually write good quality content and Google will reward me was my methodology. And it happened but I sold physical products. But the affiliate space is fascinating for me and I think more and more people are wanting to learn more about it. So that's obviously why we're chatting today and want to really get your expertise on how do you get started in this space? How do you focus on growth? Can you ramp it up? Can you do pay per click? Do you do social media? Do you do the tricks and tactics that they do with physical products on Amazon, or what's the approach? And then maybe keep in mind that we have both buyers and sellers that listen to the podcast. So tell me from a starting point how do you begin in the Amazon Affiliate Space? Do you just simply research a product, pick one, and go with it? Do something you love? What would you recommend to those listening? Chris: Yeah definitely. So for the way I like to do things is I like to look into … it's more of a just general niche research. And that's of course … you said that where there's a lot of baggage because there's a whole different bunch of different ways you can do this. You can use various tools to help with the research process. You can just go out to Google based on things you're interested in and do research in that way. On the Amazon Affiliate side, that's what I'd spent more of my time doing was focusing more on areas that I was most interested in personally. So I had a site that was focused on like smaller computers and that was something that I was interested in personally. So that's kind of how I decided. I was looking at the various niches online and what people were ranking for and how they're making money. And it just seemed like a lot of the content they are creating wasn't really … in many cases at least for the niche that I was in before I sold that site, they weren't even actually reviewing the products that they're talking about. They are just basically writing articles and using CNET [inaudible 00:08:34.7] large conglomerates, larger websites to come up with the information they could write about. So what I did and so I was … you know contacted these companies and got them to send me products for free and I sent it back and do things like that. So with any site that I do whether it's Amazon Affiliate or anything else it's … for me, it's mainly about finding a way to differentiate. So looking at any niche is just okay what can I do to be better or to better serve the audience than the existing niches that are out there? So I usually- Joe: Okay. I would think it would matter that it's something you're interested in because with an Amazon Affiliate Space you're reviewing the products. You're writing content about it. You're sharing your voice and your opinion. It seems like it'll be important that is something that you like. Chris: Yeah definitely I mean that's … for me that was the approach. I mean I think that if the goal and this isn't something that I've done personally but if the goal is to really systemize and launch dozens of sites or something like that then you would need to just … you could really do just things your interested in because you can't potentially run out of those. But you'd be looking at different types of criteria just like what's the average sign price of a product, that's one of the things that you focus on as well is if you're focusing on a niche where the price is much higher then you can make more money in Amazon's Affiliate program because of the way they have the structure; their affiliate payouts. But that's something to consider as well is just the price of the items that are going to be sold. Joe: Okay so focus a little bit on something that you like but also look at the math behind it in terms of the Amazon Affiliate Payouts and the different categories that they have and the price points. Because you're going to get a paid … you get paid a percentage of the close transaction I assume; is that right? Can you touch on that a little bit, how you make money as an affiliate? Start from scratch and assume that people are tired of physical products or tired of SaaS products and they want to maybe buy one of these. How do you make money doing it? Go right into that a little bit. Chris: Yes, so the way that it's done pretty much is just focusing on … actually to see and try to pull up the actual charts that I have memorized it off the side of my head but each category will have different types of payouts. And pretty much the way you can … I would say and try and pull it really quick but I have it in front of me … yeah, so the way that I would that is find- Joe: So somebody reviews a product and let's say they're reviewing vacuum cleaners. And someone sells vacuum cleaners on Amazon; obviously, they do. And I'm talking about the reviews on those physical products and someone clicks on the link and goes to buy it on Amazon, I get paid a percentage of that but I never have to own the physical product that's the upside of this right? I get a percentage of the sale but never have to purchase the inventory, correct? Chris: Exactly yup and in pretty much the … and I was trying to find the category here, so every category is different and they'll show you which … what the fees are like I'd give you one example, so if it's outdoor tools for instance that's 5.5% as a percentage that you'll get. And the great thing too is any time that you send someone to Amazon you'll get a commission on any product that they buy while they're on Amazon. So even if you're referring people to vacuum cleaners then you can get sales on other types of these accessories as well within a 24 hour window. That's the cookie blank for Amazon. Joe: Excellent. So I know that with physical products you can get to the top fairly fast. There's different processes and categories and not just on Amazon but if you're selling a physical product all that you need to do is pay some PPC ads for instance with Google Ad Words. It's not a winning formula oddly … obviously all the time but with affiliate how are you getting traction? How are you getting up to page one of the search engines and is it a short term game or is it a long term game? Chris: Yes, definitely more of a long term game. With any website that I'm trying to build out and rank it's more of kind of like we say you're creating content or someone is creating content for you. Looking at what's ranking there and listing okay what can I do that's better than that? And then having someone or doing it yourself. Creating out that content and creating something better. Things that you can do to accelerate the process of trying to rank would be building links and doing things like that. For me most of the time it's more of an emphasis on the content creation side aspect but like in the case of the examples I was referring to before that I sold, I would do things like trying to … because mine was in the tactical category, I try to do things like breaking news within that niche. And I would contact larger sites to say hey this product is available on Amazon now. And like in gadget and other types of sites like that, I had a link back to my site because of doing that. So it's like another way to try and help with getting more link authority from external sites that would help with the content that I was creating for that site. But that's kind of the process that … and I would never do anything like pay advertising for affiliate sites. It's … and I'm not sure if any of Amazon affiliate person out there that's doing that. For me I just … it never [inaudible 00:13:30.0] just because I know that the margins you're getting from the sales of the products you're referring rather. Joe: Yeah. Chris: There's not really enough money actually if I'd like to drive then paid traffic to try and convert that paid traffic. Joe: Right. Chris: Years and years ago people would do just racked paid advertising straight to Amazon's website and you could do that before they banned it but that was like years and years ago. Joe: Got you. Well, they get smarter every year and fix the problems and make it tougher. And the people that are doing it right, I think survive in the long run and knows that cheating to get to the top end up getting kicked to the curb hopefully anyway. Chris: Yeah. Joe: So with an Amazon affiliate site, some people have the impression that if you've got a physical product site that you're constantly managing customer service, constantly managing inventory and that it's a grind, you get to constantly churn out new skews to stay on top of the competition and then, of course, grow beyond Amazon.com to the different countries. It sounds like and some people get the impression that it sounds like, seems like Amazon Affiliate would be build it and let it grow slowly and it's a lot less work. But from what you just said which is breaking news and staying on top of things you're putting in the same kind of effort on a daily basis I would assume with an affiliate business as you are with that physical products business or is that not the case? Chris: It's not necessarily the case. I think it really depends on the niche that you're in because you know it like before we hit recording you mentioned another mutual friend that does Amazon Affiliate things as well. Joe: Yuan Fitzner let's just say his name out loud. So Fitzner it's you and he's a great guy. For anybody who doesn't know him, find him through Rhodium Weekend; he's fantastic. Chris: Yeah so he's probably a good person at all as well but he doesn't do any link building, right? He focuses more on just creating the content and that's similar to the strategy that I do as well. But in the case of the niche that I was in specifically before I sold that site doing that as a strategy was … I knew there was a benefit there. Because I think one time Engadget linked to the site and they didn't change the affiliate link. I think it was like several thousand dollar affiliate fees that they … but in that case, it was more just like here is something that fits- Joe: You didn't point that mistake to the under laying and good backing. Chris: None of it, it's just like tip line and you just say hey here's this product that's out now and people are probably excited about it and it's available on Amazon now. And yes that was a nice little bonus but … so now it was more of like niche specific. I definitely think that … I'm probably more often than not actually. You're building out affiliate sites because I had other sites as well. I have other sites that it's not like that. Where we're not trying to break news or do things like that. It's just more niche specific. Even people in the technical space they don't want to do that approach and they don't have to. I mean that's just kind of the style that we chose for that site. Joe: Okay so good quality content, SEO friendly over the long run and theoretically you'll get rewarded. Is that the basic simplified dumbed down approach? Chris: Yeah I mean it does simplify it but that's really kind of the core. And I think I really emphasize just the differentiation aspect. Like any site that I build it's always like okay I don't really want to enter this area unless I'm willing to do something multiple times better than what's already there. So that's the approach I take for really building any site. Joe: What are some of the mistakes that you've made then in terms of doing these affiliate sites? I mean what did you learn the hard way? Chris: Yeah. So of the some of the mistakes I made was … at least for me personally, I do better having fewer sites and just focusing on doing really well with those sites as opposed to having many sites. Like another [inaudible 00:17:09.7] can find that was Spencer he … years and years ago he used to do like hundreds of niche websites and make money from Google AdSense. For me I never … she was interested in doing that type of approach and systemizing in that way. But for me at least it was just a matter of trying to focus on two small niches and so I can … I think I had one that was on HDMI cable reviews. Which was a fail because that was … HDMI cables are inexpensive and then it's also it's just kind of a small niche and … well, not necessarily a small niche but it was kind of a … it was hard to do well with that one then than some of the other niches I went after. Joe: That could seem like it would change a whole lot over the years either. Chris: Yeah I mean it was … well, that's the change in standards in terms like new for kay, signals and things like that. But yeah it was just like if you can go with higher price items that's helpful right? With the part that I was doing is computers and so it'd be you know … or small laptops rather that would be more of a payout each time. Joe: Okay, I had an example given to me maybe at December, January you know someone that was passionate about … I think it was salt water fishing and writing a blog about salt water fishing and within that doing the affiliate links on the different tackle and lures that you can get with salt water fishing. Would that be an approach that someone could take? You know if I have a passion like that whether it's salt water fishing or basket weaving if you will, to build a site based upon that passion and then just go with that approach? And then the follow up question is all right great how do I learn about SEO as you have over the years? What resources do you have? Because it seems again really simplified to say just build a site that you really are passionate about, find great products, review them, and off you go. But you're still got to build an SEO from this site and write good content that that the … your Google is gonna love, right? Chris: Yeah so going back to the example, I think if you're building out just a site that you're passionate about and then trying to then add Amazon Affiliate as like a monetization … kind of like an add-on, I think it's harder to make Amazon a larger portion of the revenue for that site. If the goal isn't from the start like hey we're going to build out like a more of a review type site as opposed to here's something that we're interested at about just general information and then here is while reading this article happened to may be interested in this specific lure or whatever the example is you gave. Joe: Salt water fishing. Chris: Yeah, so that just from what I've been looking at sites in the past it just seems like that's more challenging. What usually ends up happening in those types of cases, the website owner usually ends up making a larger portion of their money just from banner ads or other types of ad platforms like that and then Amazon is more of a supplemental as opposed to the sites that I build. It'd be more … really focused around the review side of things. And so it'll just be like people that are coming to this content are interested in reviews about this product and so then that traffic is more likely to buy something than people that are just interested in general information come to my site and then they may or may not be in a buying state. Joe: So a clear differentiate is a content site that's just giving information about products in general versus a review site when you're comparing a variety of different products. And when you choose one of those products it's going to Amazon and you get a percentage of that revenue. That'd be, right? Chris: Yeah and I don't think it's a bad thing to do … really your example where you're building out because it's great to generate revenue from ads and just have a lot of traffic as well just from various articles you're writing and all about salt water fishing and then also be able to make money from Amazon with the Affiliate Program. It's just there's two different ways that you might see sites if you're on the buying or building or selling side of things. Joe: Well on those three sides which do you like … do you think, let's just talk about two; building or buying. We had Walker Deibel on the show a couple of weeks ago talking about build versus buy or buy versus build. It's actually in a book. He's coming on the Quiet Light team as an advisor in July. Do you personally in terms of specifically the affiliate space, Amazon Affiliate Space do you think it's better to build or to buy? Chris: Well I've done all of them. Build, buy, sell, every aspect on the Amazon Affiliate Side. I prefer now at least … I've been doing this for a lot longer to … or that depends right? Because it depends on for me at least where my capital might be tied up; either I just recently bought something or I'm doing other investments that are outside the online space and I want it just free of capital. And so I'm not actively looking to buy something or I'm just trying to focus on okay now that I've got that other thing going on but I can try and focus on scaling up all my things and as well. I prefer, if I had to pick one I'd say I prefer building and then being able to sell after that because for me at least I'd like to be able to invest less of my own personal cash. I know you mentioned [inaudible 00:22:18.3] before, [inaudible 00:22:19.4], a lot of the buyers there they don't have access to capital that I don't have access to through … you know people have consider with more money that they can then use as investing partners. And so I suppose if I … given the opportunity I had more capital then I would probably be doing more buying. So I guess it's tough to say. If you don't have cash and you want to just get started then building would make the most sense and maybe you can sell once you get to a certain point. That gives you some capital to either reinvest and build more sites or maybe build or buy other things. But if you have access to capital from … for any reason then buying would be great because you're able to just start with something existing. Joe: How long has it been for you from that build to sell? Do you typically hold something for 12, 24, 36 months? What have you seen? What do you try to set as a goal for yourself when you're building something? I think okay I'm going to build this to eventually sell it if that's your goal, how long do you like to hold it for? Or does it just depend? Chris: Well, a lot of the times it's more just a … it really does depend. Because half the time I do this site … well most of the time actually when I do these sites it's more a matter of I'm building something up, I like the cash flow and that's kind of the main goals is just building our monthly cash flow from various websites, businesses, etcetera. So that's kind of more of what I'm after is just getting more cash flow and then rather than just trying to pull out my capital right away and just to sell. So for me, it's all about the cash flow and I am not always interested in exactly trying to sell. Joe: How many how many balls do you have in the inner; Amazon affiliate wise, how many sites are you juggling now? Chris: If I were to add up all the different sites it'd probably be … I had to look- Joe: You know it's more than a dozen or so when you have to look. Chris: Well, no it's more I was trying to get a specific number. I'll say it's less than a dozen but I also include in that other affiliate sites that just make money from other CPA type offers opposed to Amazon. Joe: Got you. Chris: Because kind of once … for me, Amazon was a starting point. That was kind of how I got into the whole space was building out this Amazon Affiliate Site, I was doing it on the side outside of my working hours in a completely unrelated job and just trying to find a way to earn enough money to do this full time. And then once I started making enough money from Amazon it opened up all these different opportunities to try and do other things as well. And that's one is going to software, creating tools for Amazon Affiliate Sellers or well affiliates rather and doing things like that. Joe: How long has it been since you were thankfully fired from the last day job you had? Chris: Yeah, I was looking it up. Actually, I have it on my calendar October 13th is the day and it was … it will be nine years this year, later this year rather. And then I'll be 10 years the next year but that will be sort of, that'll be what 2000 … I'm trying to think now what the year it is, 2018 so it's 2009 I believe. Joe: 2009. Chris: Yeah. Joe: It's a long time to be self-employed; it's impressive that you pulled that off. Chris: Yeah. And now for me at least it's more of a matter of just further building out multiple different income streams and revenue streams from a variety of different businesses. There's … well, that's a whole other discussion right whether you should focus on just one thing or kind of spread it out. For me, it was more like build something out that starts making cash. And it's like well I don't know if I can really sell this for enough to make it worth selling. It's not going to change my life in any meaningful way so I'll keep it and have someone help me out to run it. Well, that's kind of the approach I'm working with. Joe: So if someone is listening to this and they were in your shoes, you know where you were 10 years ago and they had a day job and they want to do what you've done which is building Amazon Affiliate Sites and make some income on the side what should they expect? Should they … if they pick a category they like, they do a review site, they sign up, they get involved should they … would your expectations that they're going to hit 1 out of 10 on sites that they do, 2 out of 10, 5 out of 10. What would you give them in terms of a ratio so that they can understand and of course these are all ballpark numbers and what kind of money can they really make? I mean we're talking about on the small side a few thousand bucks a month and the people that are big and really experienced at this you know what kind of money are they making? Chris: Yeah you know that's a tough … it's tough I think with the ballpark it's a challenge to give an answer to that because the experiences that people have may lend themselves to be able to be successful more easily. Joe: All right, well look everybody listens to me all right. And they're like Joe you're an idiot but I like you and you know would … I have people tell me like they feel like we're old friends from this nude podcast. But you know me through Brad, we chatted, if I was to do this … let's be specific. You could say … be honest say, Joe, you're going to do 1 out of 10. Just face it, Joe, you're not going to do well. I mean you're the expert what would you guess if people are going to do this with some these in experience on a thing that they love and they're smart and they're going to do research online, they're gonna go to your podcast, they're going to go read everything about Chris Guthrie and figure how you do it. What are they going to do, 1 out of 10, 1 out of 5, what do you think? Chris: Ah if they're learning from me it's going to be 100% right. Joe: You're a humble guy every time okay. Chris: Yeah and though I'd say probably it's … with a lot of things, you get into it and sometimes they'll hit and they'll do well. So for me, the best site that I have was doing over 10k a month. Joe: Okay. Chris: Worst site would be like $300 a month. And that's where I'll be some of the weaker ones and then some are them between where I have a few thousand or so. Hit rate would be more like maybe 25-50% with sites that would be doing pretty well. But it … yeah, it's just really tough to answer that question for me. Joe: You improved that hit rate I would assume with the research that you do upfront. Is that right? I mean just like a physical products business on the web, on Amazon or Shopify whatever it is if you do your research up front; what are the competition price points, how are you going to sell it, things of that nature- Chris: Yeah. Joe: And you're doing the same thing with Amazon Affiliate; you need to pick a product with a great margin, something that you can write about, something that has been up searches online. What tools do you use to help … even if you have a passion for something whether it's worth it on … whether it's worth creating an Amazon Affiliate Business? So are there certain tools that you use to help that hit rate go up? Chris: So well tools for like the research side of things? Joe: Yeah to help ensure that the path that you're going down is going to be as successful as possible. Chris: Yes, I use a lot of SEMrush actually. So I use that tool quite a bit because I just like to pull up a site, see what stuff is ranking well, where they're getting their traffic from and- Joe: Do you have the paid subscription for that or do you just use the free version? Chris: So I fluctuate off and on. So from the process of building or going back to yeah I'd more than all do the paid subscription, and then if it's okay we've got enough stuff on our plate let's just focus on what we have and not create anything new then it's like well I don't really need to pay extra subscription right now. So I fluctuate in and out. Ahrefs is another tool I use as well although that was another one that I just was okay I got a good sense of where our competitors are in their links, where they're getting traffic, and okay I cancel out as well. So it's like- Joe: I always get that one wrong, it's A-H-refs is that right? We did a giveaway when we launched the podcast on an account on a subscription for that but it was Mark's area of expertise. Can you spell it out for me? Chris: Yeah, it's A-H-R-E-F-S.com and I'm not even sure how you're supposed to pronounce that either. Joe: Okay. Chris: So I mean I met someone that works for the company at that conference as well. I didn't bring that up but yeah- Joe: Mumble what they said that'll generally work. If you actually … the way my 16 year old does, he just speaks confidently and I believe him when he's comp … no idea what he's talking about but he speaks confidently. I think that's the trick. Chris: Yeah. Joe: All right so Ahrefs- Chris: Yup. Joe: You went through it and that one is more of what links the sites have right? Is that what you're looking at? Chris: Yeah, so it'd be more like looking at both viewers and the lengths for me. I was merely just trying to see where my key rankings were and so I was kind of more just tracking how it is we're doing. For SEMrush that's why I would use just the tool for research. And the thing is that here's what … the thing with tools and especially the two tools I just mentioned they've been around for years and years and years so they have so many different things that I probably didn't even know. Like I probably didn't even need one or the other it's just like when you get comfortable using one tool for one thing you'd use it for just that one thing. And then you might use this tool for the other thing. But that's kind of what the approach I would do. Joe: Okay. So do that research upfront and what you're looking for is traffic, competition, links, things of that nature before you go down the path to increase success rate, any other recommendations that you'd give somebody just starting off? Chris: Just the main thing I would say is well … I mean if you're looking at what … just looking at larger sites that are doing well. Seeing … I try to reverse engineer a lot. So when you're looking at starting from now that you're doing your research process and seeing what sites are getting in the traffic beyond just like figuring out why are they getting this traffic. Is it because they have a bunch of links pointing at them? Is it because their content is much much better? That's … I guess I keep coming back to this like but it's always for me differentiation. What is it that they're doing that's really doing that is working really well for them and then how can I do better than that? And so in the process of doing that research and looking at that then you're going to see okay it looks like they're using AdThrive or something for their ad platform and then they're using Amazon's Affiliate Program and maybe they're using LinkShare so you link to Walmart and things like that. Joe: From a buyer's side if somebody came to you and said “Hey look I'm looking at buying this site can you give me your opinion on it?” What things should buyers look for that maybe somebody in the Amazon Affiliate Space has done this sort of cheat and it's not going to last, is there anything that stands out that people should be aware of or look for? Chris: It's not because … you want to look at where they … if they are building links you want look at where they're doing it because there's you know PBNs or things like that are definitely more gray area. Joe: If I were … go ahead and say what PBN stands for, please. Chris: Yeah, Private Blog Networks, that's where people build out like huge networks of blogs and then they use links on those blogs and point them at the site. And then those blogs are getting traffic or links part of them as well. So that looks like you're getting links from higher quality sites when in fact they're just sites people would construct pretty much solely for the purpose of pointing links at properties they own or properties their clients own. And I can't remember exactly how long ago it was but Google cracked down and quite a bit. From what I've seen people kind of just got it underground and so it's kind of the [inaudible 00:33:26.3] a lot but … so looking at that is helpful in terms of how a buyer can protect themselves from that. Usually, you're able to use some of these third party tools to help check that out. There's also things where if you're signing an agreement that's saying I haven't used a PBN and then you find out that they are because maybe you're ranking stopped or go down because they've stopped in turning to run that PBN and point the links at you then that's something that you could have legal recourse to go after them. But that might be something out of buying side that included- Joe: Yeah, that's what you definitely don't want to have to do is to go after them after the fact. Chris: Yeah. Joe: Because you're chasing them for money that you gave them which is never a good position to be in. Chris: Yeah. Joe: But certainly doing the research to see where those … where the traffic's coming from and see if there is a PBN and trying to avoid it as much as possible. I think a lot of the times Chris getting to know the person, trusting a broker that's involved if there is one involved, really getting to know the seller in a positive manner. I always recommend whether it's a $35,000 site and it could apply to 3,500 as well, or a 3.5 million dollar site, if you're buying it, it's your money, you worked hard for it, get on a plane, spend an extra thousand dollars stay in a Holiday Inn whatever and meet the person face to face. Do a Zoom or Skype conference call so you can see them and talk to them but meet them face to face before you close the transaction. You can go under LOI in advance but I just don't think there's a better substitute for a handshake, having a lunch or dinner or beer and getting a better feel for them. Of course, you've got to do that due diligence and that research and hire experts like yourself or [inaudible 00:35:14.5] whoever might do the research if you don't have it to protect your money. It's something you worked hard for and I can tell you right now that when you make an investment and you blow it, it's really really hard to pull the trigger again. I know a lot of people that have done that. I know more people that have been incredibly successful and then unsuccessful. But those that thought they knew everything and thought that everybody was kind and trustworthy like they were and they pulled the trigger and something changed in the world, there was a shift with an algorithm update or whatnot and things just fall apart. They can fall apart very quickly. So lots of research meet somebody face to face, use the tools that you're talking about, the Ahrefs and SEMrush, check for PBN things of that nature. You know most people are good but it's the few bad ones that you just want to avoid in my opinion, in my experience. As far as up the top line revenue you think you know if somebody that can do this maybe they're making $10,000 a month that they do really well, how many hours a week are we talking about that is going to take to operate a business of this nature? Chris: It's definitely if … so for I guess it depends. For me, I'll give … I can really only speak to my own experiences. So for that site that like my bigger site that I had before I sold it, it was probably 15 hours a week or so and then the rest of my time was on other projects. So it wasn't like a full time thing because I was doing it outside my day job in the first place and then I only added a little bit more time because then I thought okay well I've got this new time. I don't want to have all my eggs in one basket because now I have no job and just one primary site and then other sites that are also helpful but wouldn't be enough for me to cover my bills and for … at the time I was like okay I just want to make sure I could … I don't have to go back and get a job. Joe: [inaudible 00:37:01.3] Chris: And so that's kind of the approach that I took and it worked for that site. It really depends on me and a lot of times too with Amazon Affiliate Sites especially, you're able to hire out for a lot of aspects of the process of building; either building, maintaining, any aspect to that because it's just content creation and there are a lot of writers that you can find. They can cover that part. And so if you're not doing it yourself and you're finding ways to get yourself out of that process then it can be much further reduced. Now I try and just … for me it was I try to only come up with ideas and then work with people that can help implement a lot of these or to … it's more just about trying to really limit the amount of time I spend on actually like creating content for instance. I might like to write about something on a blog personally but if I can have someone else do it then it wouldn't make sense for you to do that. Joe: Yeah, content creation can take an awful lot of time. Chris, we're running out of time. Can you share any last minute thoughts or recommendations for those that are listening that are either building, buying, or selling Amazon Affiliate Sites; any last minute advice that you would give them? Chris: Yeah, I would just say that … well, actually I'd say if anyone is curious or has other questions feel free to … I would like to say feel free to email me. Joe: You know without a doubt I want to … let's talk about how they reach you. We'll put it in the show notes as well but you know throw out whatever email address, phone number, blog sites, anything you want to share right now I'd be happy to do that. But we'll also put it in the show notes so everybody can find it in writing and get a link there too. Chris: Yeah so to answer your question I'd say decide on what you want to do right? If you're trying to … and everyone probably has a different expertise or where they're at with their life, what they want to do. If you're limited by a capital and you have a lot of money to invest then it may make sense to just simply build something so you can build it up and then come to your brokers like you guys of course and then sell it and that can give you cash that would … you could then use to reinvest and do those things. And that might be something you would do while you're still at your day job. If you're already on a site where you have access to more money then buying something would make sense. And being able to then take where you're at and growing it from there. I'd really just say that decide which focus you want to go with. Make sure you find ways to differentiate. I mean I kind of bring out that this whole time but for me, everything that I've done with any business is always been for me differentiation and finding ways to do much better than the competition. Joe: That seems to be the good … best key word here is just be different. You don't want to be like everybody else; differentiate yourself. Still do all the things right, still build something that people want to come to and trust but differentiate yourself in whatever way that you can. Excellent. Chris, how do people reach you? How do they find you? Share any information you can now so that they can get in touch with you and talk about this. Chris: Yeah, so best place would probably just be UpFuel.com which is my site. We didn't talk about it much but I sell the WordPress plugin that helps people with Amazon Affiliate things as well and that's EasyAzon.com. Joe: EasyAzon.com? Chris: Yeah so if it's … if you're running WordPress and you know a lot of people do of course then that's a software you can use to help with creating links and earning more money from those links as well. Joe: Excellent. I will make sure that link is in the show notes as well. So UpFuel.com, EasyAzon.com anywhere else that you are in the world? Chris: Twitter @chrisguthrie and yeah so that's probably the main ones but I'm happy to … if any … if you're on the buying side and you're just looking for second opinion, I try and I've just done well with trying to provide value and people with no expectation, no return and then things work out so- Joe: I agree. Just help people have good conversations and it comes back around. All right man listen I appreciate it Chris thanks so much for your time. Hopefully, folks that are either building buying or selling Amazon affiliate sites will get some good resources here. Thanks for your time today I appreciate it. Chris: Thanks.   Links: Upfuel.com: An up to date article with respect to the Amazon affiliate niche. Easyazon.com: The plugin that a lot of WordPress users install as well (they have over 10,000 installs). AMASuite.com: Discover products and how to differentiate and source them inexpensively.

Episode Links: Studio Velo Bike Shop Studio Velo Instagram Moots Gravel Bikes Parlee Bicycles    Automated Transcript (forgive any errors). This week on the Pod we've got Chris Reed from studio Valla bike shop in mill valley, California. We're actually recording in the shop today, so I just walked across this beautiful showroom, looked at some moots, looked at some parleys, some independent fabrication's, a lot of great bike sitting around. So Chris, thanks for having us tonight. Thanks for. Thanks for coming over. Really excited. Can you tell us a little bit about the background of Studio Velo? Sure. Uh, it's actually, it's a pretty cool story compared, I think to what you see with a lot of bike shops. It actually started as mobile bike repair, uh, about 13 years ago from one of my partners who got into it as a, he was trying to figure out how to make money while he was trying to run a wine and olive oil importing business and uh, had done a stint in Europe at a bike shop while he was taking his mba in Spain and started bringing some of that back here where he was working on relationships with olive oil and wine companies and trying to build a little bit of a mobile bike repair business as well too. So it was literally on the side of the bike path, lubing by chains handing out business cards, really building it from the ground up. So I mean this bike shop was started with a $10,000 credit card limit over the course of the last 13 years. We've really grown and evolved it from a service bike repair service business into what we are today, which is much more of a retail experience for clients as well too. So with a heavy service component, but a much different much different business model for sure. So, and this location downtown, Mill Valley is the second location that you had technically the third location. The first location was in Tam junction really behind the supermarket. So it's hard to see now. And then about a little over five years ago we moved into this location. Well this is a great spot to set the scene for everybody. We're right downtown in mill valley. So a lot of group rides me just around the corner near the depot. A perfect location and lots of places to grab food after you come shopping for bikes. Yeah. And we are. We absolutely love this location and I think it's pretty interesting. We lead a lot of trips to Europe and some great places around the world and one of the things we always love to seek out are these great little towns at the base of these mountains where you can grab a great coffee. And the reality is that's essentially what we have here. And we come back from these trips and we do some of our local rides and finish the ride back here and look out the door and we're at the base of a mountain under the redwoods and a beautiful part of the world. It's, it's, it's a pretty great spot for cycling. So yeah, I think that's actually a good pro tip for our listeners out of town to make sure to put mill valley on a, on their bucket list of places to ride out of. And I know you will get into some of the shop rides you guys do locally here, but there's plenty of trails, plenty of gravel riding right outside our door. Absolutely. So how about you Chris? What's your cycling background? My cycling background is, it's long in the sense that I've been doing as, as long as I can remember. I mean I started walking early and was on a bike pretty, pretty, pretty quick thereafter. Um, I lived in Holland for a couple of years when I was five, six years old and rode everywhere. There was well on my way before that. The town I grew up in, uh, in Massachusetts is pretty small farm town and anywhere, anytime you wanted to get anywhere you had to do it on a bike. So I was on a bike for from an early age. I'm not necessarily drawn to racing, just riding. Um, so it's, it's always been something I've loved doing. I moved out to San Francisco after college and, uh, got more into road riding at that point. I'd only really been more into mountain biking before that. It's, it's been, it's funny. I think a lot of people who start off mountain biking think they'll never get into road riding. I was surprised how much I enjoyed it, really took to that. Still Rode my mountain bike a lot. And then this whole gravel phenomenon that's really emerged in the last few years, um, I did a lot of road riding and my road bike on the dirt leading up to that and didn't really have the right equipment for it and definitely beat up a lot of road bike equipment and just really got into cycling for a love of writing, not necessarily from a racing standpoint. So, uh, I've been riding bikes for a long time, but uh, but not necessarily at the, at the highest level of competition. I think there's a lot of commonality in what you've been saying about mountain biking and road biking and appreciating both as unique disciplines in the sport and, you know, I think we share that, that gravel is its own unique discipline at that point. And the equipment that's emerged over the last couple of years is really enabling the type of adventurous writing that is. It's, it's great for the soul in my mind just to get out there in the woods and away from the traffic. Yeah, I couldn't agree with that more. I think that's, um, I think that's absolutely right. And I think as this area in particular starts to get packed with more people in cars, it's, you see more people gravitating towards riding their bikes in different areas that our main roads, we've got great infrastructure for roads as far as getting access to a phenomenal landscapes and scenery. But the reality is there's more people than maybe the roads can support. And so, uh, it's great to take advantage of the vast network of trails that we have and I think what we have here isn't necessarily the traditional gravel riding terrain, but we've got an unbelievable mix of off road terrain and, and road that you can link together to put together world class rides. Uh, it's, it's super unique. That's so true. I'm excited to get into a little gravel bike, one one-on-one one tonight because I've got a lot of listeners who have kind of pinged me on social channels just saying, hey craig, how would you define gravel riding? So as a shop owner, curious to hear when you thought the gravel biking seem really started to emerge from your brand partners that you're working with. Yeah, no, know that that's a great question. And I think it's, it's definitely the most challenging category that we work with because it's not clearly defined. I think road riding is probably the most easily defined. There's a few subcategories there. I think on the mountain bike side, a lot has changed in the last few years with geometry of bikes and and capability of bikes. But I think it's a little bit easier to classify and on the global side of things, um, I think it's really pretty interesting because there's so much that's changed so quickly. Uh, and I think that it's really benefited from a lot of the advancements in technology and materials. Um, I think manufacturers took a stab at it probably about five years ago and it was cross bikes that would maybe start to clear slightly wider tire. But I think there was a lot of people riding cross bikes, um, in, in non cross bike specific ways, meaning that it wasn't. They were using it for non race riding. And I think um, as disparate became the go goto on mountain bikes, people realize pretty quickly how inferior breaking of cantilever bridge was. And I think started putting pressure on the industry to make some changes. And I think putting disc brakes on I'm cross bikes was, was one of the first things that I think got more people excited about riding cross bikes off road. And it's funny, one of the first manufacturers that we worked with, Cathy, we actually built cross bikes with disc brakes. There were cable actuated districts, but bamboo cross bikes, uh, 10 years ago. I'm actually almost 11 years ago now, so it's been around I think longer than people really tend to think, but I don't think it was at the forefront of the industry. And I think the industry can be slow to embrace some changes. 29er for example. It took the industry a really long time to get behind that. Um, I think it took two years maybe for Fox to start making suspension forks it to. Same thing for maverick to start making wheels. So there was a push from the consumer side, but it took the industry a little bit longer to adapt to it. Six 50 be 27, five wheels started to come. Uh, I think the industry accepted that change more quickly and it happened almost overnight. Gravel riding was a little bit slower, but we're now in the point where it's changing quickly and there's a lot of changes and a lot of different areas. Um, so it's, it's, it's pretty unique right now. So if I come through the door as a customer and I'm looking at a drop bar, road bike, and a drop bar, gravel bike to the layman, they look quite similar. Maybe the, I noticed the knobby tires versus the slick tires. Sure. Well what's going on under the hood? What's the differences in the geometry or the positioning or some of the components that I really should be thinking about when looking at a gravel bike share? Yeah. No, it's a great question. I think for us, we always wanted to start with figuring out what are you going to use the bike most for because I think for a lot of people that you can use a gravel bike as a road bike and then a lot of people that really want to focus more on road riding, on gravel bikes, not going to be quite the right setup. You can get a lot of the performance that you get from a road bike, but maybe not that last 10 percent, um, which a lot of people are after as well too. So if you're looking at differences between them in terms of geometries, you'll see stuff like the head tube angle on a gravel bike will be a little bit more relaxed than, than um, a road bike. You'll, that'll give you a little bit more stability on the downhill is a little bit more clearance for running a bigger tire. So you're gonna have less pto overlap. Um, you're going to see, uh, the change stays being a little bit longer and that'll help clear the, the bigger tires in the back as well too. And I think we're seeing as the gravel market really changes and emerges changes, uh, a few different gravel offerings from different companies. One of the things that we've really seen a lot of is the, the interest in going wider and wider with tires. When we first started looking at it four or five years ago, 30 2:30 3:34 more traditional size tires were, were more acceptable. And now what we're seeing is a lot of people are wanting 36, 38, 40, even 45 mile tires in the roster, seeing a lot more offerings from tire manufacturers. So you can get a tire that really handles a lot better in the dirt and so rose role is pretty good on the road without much sacrifice. So we're seeing a little bit more interested in, in wider tires for mixed terrain use, where before we didn't have quite that same ability to explore that. Do you think those wider tires are a local phenomenon? You mentioned earlier and obviously I ride out of this area as well, that the stuff we take our gravel bikes on is they're effectively mountain bike trails to a large degree versus someone in the Midwest that might be looking at just long flattish fire roads. Yeah. Yeah. I think that's a good question. Um, and I, I think tire selection, I think anyone who's into mountain bike and I'll tell you, tire selection is, is very unique for, for each area. I mean hadn't written my mountain bike and a lot of different areas. It's funny, you'll show up with your traditional mountain bike setup in the locals and just lucky and shake their heads and it's the stuff not the right tire for here. And I think that's true in the gravel market, I think you see stuff like with dirty cancer where you have to worry about the super sharp rocks. I mean everyone's gonna flat once or twice probably on that course. And so they're specific stuff for that. Um, and I think yeah, it really depends on the rider. So here, like you said, we have more mountain bike terrain that you're writing a, a gravel bike on and I think that tends to push a lot of our clients towards exploring a slightly wider tire. It probably is a little bit of a local phenomenon, but I also think it depends on the writer and how much you want to push it as well because, you know, I know that you'll ride your gravel bike on stuff that a lot of people wouldn't want to take the gravel bike on as well too. So I think that's what makes this whole category of vice a little harder to find, to define because the bikes are getting more capable. But it really depends on what you're most in intended uses for it, for the bike. So when you look across the brands that you guys carry, so moots, IAF, parley, just to name a few. Yup. Do you see different approaches from those different manufacturers with respect to the amount of tire clearance that they're building into their bikes? Yeah, I think so. I think definitely and, and um, so moods, for example, does three different gravel bikes. They do the route they do the route rsl and the route 45, the route will clear up to about a 38 mil tire. And that was the first bike they launched the route 45 will clear up to a 45 mile tire and then the route Rsl, they just reconfigured. It clears depending on the tire rim combination, somewhere between a 40 and 42 mil tire. And I think that's, that changes happen more from pushback from people wanting to run wider tires. So that's a great example. So you've got a beautiful titanium frame manufacturer and moots. How do you decide the difference? Are there things you're giving up if you're going to the larger tire configuration? Not really. Um, I think the initial thought was that, that you were in. It's funny if you look at what happened say in the, in the road cycling world, five, six, seven years ago, everyone was running 23 mil tires at 120 psi. Then we started to see people running slightly wider rims and 25 mil tires and decreasing the tire pressure a little bit and no one really runs 20 three's anymore and everyone is probably running 25 or 20 eights and you're giving up very little. And I think we're seeing the same thing on the gravel side of stuff now as well. As the rims get wider, the tires get wider. The rubber compound improves, the tread patterns improve. You're giving up very little and you might have a slightly longer chain stays. So the bike might not handle a switchback quite as well. But it's a very minor compromised. And I think what you get in terms of comfort and capability of the bike and it's capability in terms of traction, which applies to both a climbing up steep terrain, which we have a lot of around here. Breaking on steep terrain in which we have a lot of around here and then cornering on loose stuff, which we have as well too. So I think there's very little downside going with the, the wider tire. And it's interesting because for us the trend is definitely been switching more from selling route, the traditional route to the route 45 in the RSL because the demand is for the, the wider tire. So right now I've, I've had the pleasure of writing with a number of your customers out on the trail and I've seen them on steel by accessing them on antibiotics or non carbon bikes when I'm coming in asking the question and just looking for your advice, how are you kind of helping them guide them through that selection process on the frame materials? Yeah, sure. Um, so we build everything from the frame up so there's no need for us to sell one brand over another. It's, it's, we want to start with the conversation and figure out what's, what's right for you as, as the client. Um, and I think figuring out some guys are coming in from a racing background and only one to ride carbon bikes. Some guys are coming in from the more old school background. We're all, everyone is a steel bike and some guys are intrigued by titanium bikes. So it's kind of walking you through that and it's also finding a brand that you align with. What brand are you excited about? Because I think for me, and I think you can relate to this as well to you love your bike and you're excited to ride it and that's what gets you out the door and makes you want to ride it more. And I think let's figure out what's, what, what drives you to a particular bike. It can be both in terms of capabilities in the aesthetic as well too. And I think choosing between the materials, we kind of walk you through all the differences between them. Some guys want something that's super light and you're never going to build a metal bike that's quite as light as a, as a higher end carbon bike. Some guys know that they're really rough on equipment and a metal bike then is a better choice for them. Uh, I think that the durability aspect of a titanium bike is phenomenal. Uh, I think now that the industry is kind of settling on 12 mil through axles and flat mount disc brakes, it's a little easier to find something that is going to stay more current. It's, I would never say it's future proof, but it's going to be a bike that you buy it with the intent of having for a long time and you'll be able to keep it current for, for a lot longer, uh, which is, which is a little bit more comforting because I was definitely not the case just a few years ago. So yeah, I think if you look at the evolution of the gravel bikes from four, five years ago, it's dramatically different today. I absolutely think you're right. Like you buy a bike today or within the last year, you're in the right sweet spot. You've got a high performance bike that's going to really handle anything you can throw at it. Yeah, I agree. And you know, we're seeing some, one of the challenges with the bike industry is that there are not too many things that are standardized, but seeing the industry embrace flat mount a and 12 mil through axles makes it a lot easier to really have confidence that you're getting something that's gonna stay current for a little bit longer. So yeah, I tell you, I was a little bit nervous on the coast ride this year at the notion of getting a flat or having some serious issue with my wheels because I had no chance of getting a deer axle wheel on that road ride. Yeah. Thankfully, thankfully that, that starting sort out a little bit. So um, and it's, you know, the more and more I think what people are gravitating towards her disc brakes and that's on the road and obviously on the gravel side as well too. So I think that's pushed the industry to really focus on standardizing that. The, the, the, the next coast ready go on. I think you see a lot more people that you can swap wheels with if you need to write on. So do you have any favorite bikes in the shop right now? And I got a lot of beauty sitting over there. Yeah, it's funny. Everyone knows. Asked w what's, what's your favorite bike? And my joking response is that it's, it's whatever one I'm on at the moment. For me, the most recent bike built up is the part of the zero xd. I mean, you and I have written gravel bikes at several times now and I've been on a beautiful independent fabrication, a titanium bike for, for a bit now. And um, it's, it's really nice jumping on on the part the as well too, to kind of all the stuff we were talking about earlier. It has a lot of the more modern touches that, uh, that my previous bike didn't have. And so for me that I would say that's, that that's my favorite. Uh, it's just, it's what I built that up probably two and a half weeks ago and it's what have been on just about every day. So, um, but I suspect it will make an appearance on the shops instagram feed sooner or later. So that's sort of follow that channel yet, did you notice any visceral differences between the titanium frame and the carbon frame right off the bat? I think a few things. I think it's just, it's the nature of the material, it's just going to be a little bit more responsive so there's no shortage of climbing year to test it. It does clear with some wider tires and I built this bike up to be a little bit more dirt focused where the previous bike, um, I do a lot of mixed terrain writing and that was definitely um, I wouldn't say skewed more road or more dirt. It was right down the middle and this one is a little bit more dirt focused, some, some knobby rear tires and a one by drive train. So it is a little bit more competence inspiring in the dirt. And I think also the geometry of the bike it, I'm running some wider tires and it has a more relaxed head, ankles. So going down some of these deeper, more technical stuff, it's a little bit more forgiving. So. Nice. Yeah, it's going to be fun to ride with you on that now. Absolutely. So you mentioned the one by setup. I think that's one of the big questions when someone's really seriously considering one of these bikes. Yep. Particularly if they're considering what I like to call a quiver consolidation or they're going to use it as a, as their road bike as well as their gravel bike. Yep. One bias is a commitment. Yup. So talk about that process and obviously as you're advising customers between a one by in a to buy setup, how do you go about explaining what they should be thinking about? Yeah, absolutely. I think it's, I think it's easier to digest now than it was say two or three years ago with the mountain bike industry really pushing the one by drive trains from both Shimano, instagram, uh, I think consumers are used to seeing that a little bit more and, and most likely having written it as well too. So you understand that the jumps between each gear or a little bit bigger when you're running a one by drive train. But I think for the person who's, who's using the bike for a lot of road miles and also some dirt miles, you can't get that same fine tuning of cadence that you can get with a two by that you can, uh, you can achieve that with a one by the same way you can with the two buys. So if you are going to do, we have a lot of clients, for example, who spent a lot of time commuting and doing their weekend rides, um, on, on the gravel bikes. And I'm putting on putting on some good road miles. And I think a two bicep is great for that. The two buys setups are phenomenal. If you're doing more direct focus, riding on some bumpier terrain, the advantage of a one by Dr Training and having a derailer with a clutch in it is really pretty nice on the bumpier terrain. So, um, if you came in saying, Hey Chris, you know, my goal is to build up a gravel road. I live at the base of Mount Tam. I'm doing a lot of rides on, on some bumpier training. It's 80 percent or 20 percent road than I think it's worth exploring. One by drive train. If you're doing 60 slash 40 road to dirt or 50 slash 50. I think we talked through the, the, the two by drive train as well too because like you said, if you're just throwing a different set of wheels on there and using it for a road ride and going out with your buddies and putting some good road miles on it too. Um, it's, it's, you're a lot more comfortable having a to buy setup setup. So. Gotcha. So if I'm investing in a two by drive train and a nice high end gravel Fram Yup. Am I selling my road bike on Ebay or am I keeping. What's your thought? Don't sell it until you've written, written the gravel bike on the road. I think I'm a gravel bike and fill a certain people's needs on the road bike. But if you, um, it, it's just not, it doesn't have that same razor sharp feel. And that same ultra responsiveness that a modern robot does as well too. So they're different enough that if you have room in your garage, it's not a bad thing to have two or room in the budget, but if you're, if you're trying to make room in your budget or your garage, the, the modern gravel bike and can fill both pretty good. I, I give the um, the, the futon analogy to a lot of people were a gravel bike is not the best road bike and it's not the best mountain bike, but it fills a need really well. So if you know what you're going in and looking for then then um, then I think they're phenomenal and I think it's, I like to get people out on the true gravel ride and let them feel the bike underneath them and have them come back with questions and thoughts and then help them digest that a little bit more because I think they're great. But if you go into it expecting it to fill the need of a mountain bike and a road bike, they're just so different. Um, but if your expectations on the road side of things are that you can give up a little. Just a little bit of performance then. Yeah, you can. You can easily do a lot. A lot of road riding on, on a, on a modern gravel bike, that's for sure. So a lot of people I talk to are intrigued by gravel riding by. They haven't quite made that leap of faith yet as a shop. Have you guys created events or other opportunities for people to get out on the trails and sort of have that light bulb go off? Yeah, absolutely. And I think it's, it's one of my favorite things to do. One of the things that we really put a lot of effort into over 10 years ago now, it was just really committing to building community. It's one of most challenging things you can do, but for us it's also been one of the most rewarding things. Um, it's just the relationships that we've built with clients outside of our four walls here, uh, has been, has been really pretty incredible. And I think a lot of the experiences that you can get with someone on a bike are just, there's nothing else like it and taking people out on a gravel ride, uh, is, is really pretty special. I, I took a couple of guys at this past weekend and I think for people that are looking at bikes, I was not to keep giving me analogies, but I give the, it's, it's like going to look at a puppy, a you can't go look at a puppy and that long one and you're not going to go out and ride a gravel bike and not think that you don't want one in this area. It's pretty special. And I think, um, a lot of the stuff that we've done is incorporated a lot of gravel rides into our Sunday shoprite's. We've brought in some great demo bikes as well too. And um, we do some great. Um, we do some great trips as well too. So let's see, next month in May we're going to do a trip out to steamboat and ride with the guys at moves for four days. Um, we're going to do some, some other stuff a little bit later in the summer and then we, we have, we work with a lot of our brand partners who come through with, with demo bikes as well too. So we love getting people out on bikes. That's awesome. On that moods trip, is there an opportunity to demo all those different bikes you were referencing earlier? Yeah, absolutely. I actually just got a list today from, from my rep about what we're going to have a available and then we're having some more demo bikes, have our own fruit for that trip built up as well too. So, um, yeah, it's uh, there's there, there's definitely opportunity to demo some bikes on that. So that's really awesome. Well you guys have been very generous with your time and the community and I appreciate the weekend shop rides and that's really the fundamental building block of any cycling community and uh, it takes a lot of effort and energy for you guys to always be there on a Sunday morning and putting out those blog posts. So. So props to you and all the other great bike shops out there that are doing weekend shop rides. Yeah. No thanks Greg. We, we, we love doing it. It's um, it's uh, you know, you had the occasional Sunday morning when your alarm goes off early and you wonder if it's what you really want to do, but as soon as you get out there and start chatting with people and get on your bike, it's uh, you, you never regretted it. It's unbelievably rewarding. So, um, and then in the summertime too, when, when the days are a little longer, we do some fun evening rides as well and um, you know, we're, we're constantly getting out in the mornings with our clients or in the evenings after work as well too. So it's kind of the shoot us an email or give us a call if you want to ride a bike and uh, you know, we're always there for Jonah in his hand. Right on. What's the best way to follow the shop and support you guys? Yeah, so I'm probably our instagram feed. That's something that we've been working on building. I'm building out a bit more this year with more regular posts. Um, we have a great email distribution list to, for our shop ride so people can contact me and I'm happy to add them to the list and um, and uh, come into the shop to, there's nothing better than, uh, than uh, seeing someone in person shaking their hand and, uh, and, and meeting new clients. Yeah, absolutely. And if or if someone's out of town and they wanted to join one of your, the Colorado trip with moods or wondering or European trips, is that something that's. Yeah, just jump on our website. All the imposed their contact info. Um, we also have some, if you're coming in from out of town, coming into the area and wanted to do some writing, um, we're happy to help you out and steering in the right direction for roadmap or gravel. But we also on our website have some, uh, gravel rights that you can download the route and, uh, and get started that way. Okay. Well I'll make sure to reference all those sites and links in the show notes. Um, I really appreciate the time tonight, Chris was a lot of fun. Yeah, my pleasure. I'm looking forward to looking at some bikes on the way out the door. Absolutely. Um, and yeah, thanks again. Yeah, absolutely. My pleasure. And, uh, let's ride some bikes right on.

Tis the season of sugar plum fairies dancing in our heads and baked goods in the oven. Houston, TX has a sugar fairy and her name is Rebecca Masson. In fact, her Instagram handle is sugarfairy, so she owns it. She’s worked at some big name spots, including in Paris and at  DB Bistro in New York City, and she’s been on Top Chef,  but it was after working at Central Market in Texas, where she learned some hands-on management skills, that she decided to open Fluff Bake Bar in Houston. This is the home of the Fluffernutter, Unicorn Bait, the Couch Potato Cookie, and the Veruca Salt cake. As you know, Houston was hit with a doozy of a hurricane and flooding event this fall, and although Fluff Bake came out unscathed, it then had a flood of its own afterwards when a pipe broke on the floor above it. Rebecca’s still a couple of weeks from re-opening, but she hasn’t stopped baking, or doing pop-ups and festivals, including Chefs for Farmers in Dallas, where I caught up with her at The Adolphus Hotel. My good friend Chris Chamberlain, Nashville writer extraordinaire and past Southern Fork guest (Hey Chris) was at the festival too, so he’s a silent listener on this one, despite the fact that I’m surprised he didn’t chuckle at the “bust a nut” discussion. It’s time to get your sugar rush on, Houston-style.

The weekly show where I answer viewer questions from the comment sections of my Q&A videos or sent to me by email at AskChrisShelton@gmail.com. This week, the questions I answer are: (1) Hey Chris, love your work. What references to national socialism does Hubbard make in his body of work? Seems to me that he […] The post Critical Q&A #116 appeared first on Chris Shelton - Critical Thinker at Large.

Doug and Strickland start a new Bingo game! Listen carefully on The Nice Guys today.    Reach Us Here: Doug- @DJDoug Strickland- @NiceGuyonBiz   On Facebook: The Nice Guys Community page Become a patron and support the podcast at www.Patreon.com/NiceGuys   Show Notes by Production Assistant - Anna Nygren   Intro Patreon, you had me at hello   The ‘Origins' Hook-Up Doug has made friends with the Origins people, YAY for great products Potential sponsor with Harry's Razors? Sounds like a smooth deal (pun intended) Hey Chris, the link you provided for the show doesn't work! Please let us know what's up Summer = beach season When you go to a dinner party, what's the etiquette? Bring a lil' something, don't be late etc. The 690 mile-long Yard, the infamous Route 127 Sale   Closing Lines The winner of a Funkn' Fans T-Shirt is….Alyssa!

In this episode, we chat with Chris Brogan. Chris is a LEGEND in the industry. He shows businesses how to grow their revenue and the loyalty of their customers & clients by infusing authenticity into everything they do. In this interview we talk about ways to do that, stories from his past and how to do this in your business to create an authentic culture that creates loyal, raving fans! Resources Mentioned stevegarfield.com chrisbrogan.com owner.media Transcript Jeremy Reeves: Hey what is going on guys and girls. Jeremy Reeves here with another episode of The Sales Funnel Mastery Podcast. And on the line today and on video as you can see, we have Chris Brogan. Chris is basically (inaudible 0:27.9) in one word, he is a rockstar. When it comes to you know, growing businesses and especially kind of focusing on using the social aspect of doing that, he is a total bad ass. Really quick kind of couple bullet points of him. He is a sought after speaker. He has spoken for, I mean, all kinds of different you know, all kinds of different people which of course he can talk about in a minute. He is a New York Times best-selling author with 8 books and is coming out this night -- Chris I want to talk you about that one because I am actually a big gamer myself, so I am going to be interested in that one. He has spoken -- consulted with everywhere from you know, small brands all the way to big companies, Disney, Coke, Google, GM, Microsoft, and about a thousand other big names like that. He has appeared on the Dr. Phil Show. He has interviewed Richard Branson for a cover story for Success Magazine and we can go and on like this for the next like half hour. But Chris, how are you buddy? Chris Brogan: Jeremy, glad to be here. Thanks for having me on your show. Jeremy Reeves: Yeah, yeah. It is my pleasure. I have known about you for years now. I have followed your work for a long time and so it is kind of cool to you know, to get you on video and you know, see and kind of dig into your mind a little bit and see how you work. Chris Brogan: Thrilled to be part of it and it is kind of fun because you know I have been doing my research about you and making sure that you are the Jeremy that I thought you were because that name is really familiar and I go ahead to dig a little bit, I am like, oh yeah, okay. It is interesting because a lot of what you have done with copy but also then with the mechanics underneath it. I am always the higher end of the sales funnel not the lower end so (inaudible 2:09.9) how people convert you know. A lot of my shenanigans are nonsense. So I think that is really cool. Jeremy Reeves: Nice. Chris Brogan: It is a complimentary pairing one might say (inaudible 2:18.2). Jeremy Reeves: Yeah. So you know, tell everybody like what, you know, what it is you do basically you know. If someone were to say, Hey Chris, you wake up in the morning and you are going to help us solve you know, grow -- basically grow a business you know, what is the approach that you take. What is your philosophy on helping people grow? Chris Brogan: Sure. I mean a lot of it really boils down to is helping people connect with what they already have and who they already are and then really leveraging that to find the people that they most want to serve and then helping them find out how to grow the capabilities and connections to do that. I find that a lot of times where we go a little (inaudible 2:52.7) in business is we kind of try to be someone who we are not. We try to go after people that we do not really know or do not understand and we try to you know, spend a lot of our calories and our time in fields where we do not normally spend our time in general. So it comes off in authentic. It comes off as a struggle. It comes off as -- there is some kind of a disconnect and there is a little lack of integrity there. If people use integrity in the wrong way, they tend to use it to (inaudible 3:18.6) something very noble, but it just means integratedness. Hitler had a lot of integrity. He just you know, put in the direction we did not want it. When I say that people are lacking in integrity, I really mean the integratedness of what they are saying they are into and where they spend it real time. And so a lot of times you know, when I speak to a company for instance, if I go into a healthcare company one time right around the time President Obama just got elected, they said to me we want what he had. How do we get more people to talk to (inaudible 3:50.3) he had people talking to him via social channel and stuff and I say, well, first off, you have to find ways to invite people that want to have that conversation. You have to talk to them about what they really want to talk about which is likely (inaudible 4:03.2) know what you want to talk about. You have to kind of get him there. And so it become a messy business. What I do with the companies and/or you know with individuals because a lot of times I am calling them on the parts that they want to hide or I am calling them on the -- it is like having a weird relative over for a dinner. You know they are going to say something weird. You know they are going to offend somebody, but they actually have some value to them and I guess what I am trying to show everyone is that their weird relative might actually be the winner in their experience and that in all businesses in all sizes the do not lie. If we could be a lot closer to who we really intend to be then we might have a lot better swing of it instead of kind of living underneath. The fear that we have to fake our way through something. Jeremy Reeves: Yeah, yeah. I love that. And you know, there is a lot of -- I know a lot of people that are, that are overweight for example and instead of being ashamed about it and you know, they kind of try to cover it up, they just owned it, you know what I mean. Melissa McCarthy is a good example of that. The actress, you know, she just owns who she is and she is -- I love her movies. She is so funny. I think that is a good example, but take that and use it for business you know. Whoever you are as a person, whatever your personality is, do not try to hide that even it is you know, negative thing you know, I think the more that you can really understand that and bring it to light, that is what makes people attracted to you, you know what I mean. I think especially -- there is a term in copywriting called the damaging admission you know, essentially just taking something that is perceived as a bad thing, but you twist it into a good thing you know, I think that is huge you know. Is that what your you know, when you are working with companies and helping them with their social strategies is that basically what you help them like uncover, is what those pieces are and then how to you know, bring that to the community, to people who are serving? Chris Brogan: I have not done anything social with the company since I think 2010, but a lot of times when I work with companies, it is bend down to sort of their sale strategy, their business strategy, their content mostly. A lot of times, content marking which I guess some people lump into social, but I see it is a sort of blend. I am not a direct sales copywriter. I do not believe in you know, I am never going to have (inaudible 6:22) killer anything (inaudible 6:24) and I agree on a lot of things, but I do not ride his way. So I would say that what I am often doing is trying to just to spill out you know, we rush the tactics or we rush the ways to you know, sort of leverage parts of our business. I am trying to find is there more holistic way sometimes. Is there a way that you know, it is how we love you in spite but we love you because kind of stuff. So with that, I might make that in the content. So I might say here is -- here might be a good editorial calendar to lay this out. I might talk about email marketing strategy, that is one of my favorite tools of all the business tools is email marketing pain because I feel like you know, it was done so poorly for a lot of the less 20 or 30 years. There is nowhere to go, but up and so I help with that. A lot of times also it is you know, how do we harness the word of mouth type stuff that is going on in a much more organic way. How do we do something that is a lot more experiential as opposed to stuff that fits nicely on a spreadsheet. And you know, pretty much if I did not think about it Jeremy, 80% of what I do is make people who like spreadsheets unhappy. (inaudible 7:35.7) because a lot of it does not fit nicely in a column, but then it shows up you know, the revenue does show up. I mean, I only have 2 measures in any kind of business project that work with people. I only have 2 measures, one is dollar signs and one subscribers you know. That is a pretty baseline kind of business to run in a world that still thinks that this is somehow good or useful you know. I check with my bank and they do not care what my klout score is. That is why I do not do a lot of social media stuff such as they were. I just need those tools to make business move forward. Jeremy Reeves: Okay, I got you. So you are going after the you know how to actually turn into sales and not just -- I totally agree you know, a lot of people are, Oh, I got you know, 300 likes or you know, 20,000 likes or whatever it is, like okay, well how many sales did you make you know. How many beliefs did you change you know, that are going to turn into sales, those kind of things. So tell me about your new book. I am kind of excited to hear about that. Chris Brogan: Yeah. One of several -- it is funny, as you were saying that, give me a sec, hmm.. I need to edit my bio. Jeremy Reeves: The video game book. Chris Brogan: So this idea it will probably morph a little bit. I am very (inaudible 8:46.1) in the video games. I play a lot on Xbox for my platform. I have no particular preference that is just (inaudible 8:52.3). I was a Halo guy, (inaudible 8:53.8) who had the platform. But in the process when I was coming from, what I was learning was, there is a lot of ways to see what it comes out in video games that you can then graft onto real life business pursuit you know. There is a lot of people in business that just kind of show up to work. There are trying to figure out how they are going to get their 3% every year. They are just you know, everyday is the same as the last day. So they do not work with this concept of objectives. They do not work with the concept that there are systems in scoring in place that they do not even normally see because work feels like an open world environment. Like if you are a sales guy, you know, all you are seeing is did I or didn’t I make more sales, but they are not taking of what if I give you 20 cold calls a day or whatever you know, cold call is everyone’s most hated thing. What if I made it 20 a day instead of whatever you are doing now, 2, 5, none. So that idea comes from video games, because in video games, there are things like bounties or objectives or you know, today you are going to get 5 kills with a shotgun or something. For me, it is so -- if you pull the shenanigans of video games into the real world, I still see that there is some really cool overlays that you can do that will make business work a lot better. And so I am always excited to try to extrapolate that kind of life lesson and advice. I also think that there are ways to make your own game. So that even if the game systems says, the way you win is to get you know, more tags than the other team or whatever it is, capture the flag more often, whatever it is. There are other ways for you to win because you can say, well, you know, I am not ever going to be the number 1 guy. I am just not that kind of a player. I am a good support guy or whatever it is. So then you start saying well, what if I did 7 of this or whatever you know. I think that there are so many ways that we can improve ourselves using the systems in the (inaudible 10:41.5) inherent in the video game that we do not even think about. Anything is boring with Pacman and Tetris, it has systems in it. And I think that if we talk about systems you and I some of us will fall asleep, but if we talk about video games then I can sort of sneak the broccoli inside the cake (inaudible 10:58.5) this is broccoli cake. Jeremy Reeves: Nice. And I actually wrote -- this is several years ago, but probably like 3 or 4 years ago, but I actually, if you have ever follow the launches of games. They are absolutely brilliant marketers in the way that they just -- they create such engaged fans and like, you cannot wait -- I know like there is a couple of games that I cannot wait to come out coming out in September and October right, and like I am so excited I am like sitting you know, I cannot wait until they come out and it is because of the way that they pre-launched their games and it is like -- a lot of times it is like a 6 to 9 or 12 month you know, it is like a little drip here and there and then they show and they do previous of the game and they have like, they will have discussions about it about what is going to be new and all that. So there is a lot to learn even from the way that they launch the games too you know and then once you get inside there is even more. Chris Brogan: Absolutely. Jeremy Reeves: If anybody likes video games like you know, the geeks that Chris and I are, definitely look at them and while you are playing, you know, you might as well pull some marketing insights from it you know. So if you have to you know, you have worked with all types of companies you know, small businesses, huge businesses, all that kind of thing, if there was -- if you are going into a business and you could look out like if there was 1 factor that helps people grow that it is like, okay, you are going to do X and that is your like, it is kind of like a guaranteed win, what would you look for in that kind of company whether it is -- and if you can do it, maybe it is different for the small and big companies, but you know, what are your thoughts on that? Chris Brogan: You know what, to me Jeremy, it is always the same, any size company and I think I might have stolen a little of this from the perspective of Richard Branson or rather when I write this book (inaudible 12:50.1) I had this realization that wow, this thought that I had that I thought it was wrong for thinking, that is what he says and you know, sometimes it happens where someone outside of us will verify or you know, validate us and will go, ahh.. I am (inaudible 13:06.4). So the idea is really simple. This is exactly what Branson said. Branson said, this can work on all scales you know, a business idea can work on all scales and that is why I stole. And so the idea is just to connect and serve and so you know, you see on the side of police car is to protect and serve. So I think you know, to connect and serve because I think that what is most missing in most businesses of all sides, little guy doing a lawn you know has his you know, little (inaudible 13:36.1) and he wants to mow more lawns all the way up to Viacom and Sony electronics USA. We fall behind the mechanics of systems. We fall behind the idea that you know, if I do this enough times in a row, I am going to expect this kind of scenario and when it does not work, we do not know what to blame so we blame the systems or we blame processes way outside of us or whatever you know, whatever (inaudible 14:00.8) guide is not working, the real (inaudible 14:03.7) about any diet is it works if it is the right diet for you, you know, because you apply, you have to do the work and so when it comes to this idea of connect and serve, service is the basis of all good business, all good business. 100% of business is based on service. I will say a really random example. I like watches from this company Shinola. They have a bunch of other business lines as well, but they started with watches in Detroit. So I got this watch, it is not a whole lot of money, it is like a $500 watch you know, I never going to wear this and someone go whoo.. (inaudible 14:38.2) But if people know the story, it is a story of sort of revitalizing Detroit and this company is American made. All the parts are American and like all the you know, good stuff about taking in a city that has been on its back feet and putting it back together again. This is so random. I twit yesterday, dear Shinola, I love you. That is all. They twit back. Dear Chris Brogan. We love you too. I did not expect much. I just wanted to say it because I was (inaudible 15:06.1) because I was looking at my watch which is strangely not in my wrist during the (inaudible 15:09.7). But you know, I love just that little piece of touch and that little piece of touch stretches me a lot further. My buddy Steve Garfield, he runs the stevegarfield.com. He said, I was travelling back to Portland, Maine. I was just up on a vacation with my fiancé and he said, oh, you got to go to this place. I think it is called the Slab it is a pizza place. He goes, “Man, I love it. I had a great time. I shot some photos. I had them up on my Facebook. The guy who rans it came over and said, (inaudible 15:36.6) on my Facebook page” or whatever. That is -- to me, the social media tools are (inaudible 15:41.1) is the fact that an owner can reach out to customer and validate his enthusiasm for a place and then turns that guy into a full on raging fan. So that works at huge companies as well as small companies you know. I had a problem with a regional pizza company around here because my son wanted desperately for me to order from there as many times as I have told him we have had horrible times in the past and he was like, no please, I really like their food and I am like, I do not care that you like it, it is just that, they never going to come to our hose. So against my better judgment. I call. I make the order. 40 or so minutes go by and then (inaudible 16:19.1) 30 and I call them. They say, yeah, we ran out of -- I forgot what it was like buffalo wings or something that we order. We ran out of them so we are going to call you back and ask you what you want as a dip. I say, well first up, it is 40 minutes. You are like, you are 10 minutes past when that food should be in my mouth, but second like you are going to call me -- again, regional pizza company who is like 100 of stores and advertises (inaudible 16:47.7) what a bunch of poop heads, right. So (inaudible 16:51.1) this story on stage forever. So, Jeremy, that is such a long answer, but I want the passion to show like I wanted to show that any size company can do the simple as be and connect with the people that it hopes to serve and to serve them. My needs are not met by this giant regional pizza company. The local guy across the street who makes far less superior pizza will actually bring it to the house for my kid. So that is how it is going to go. So I guess if you could (inaudible 17:20.0) then none of that is a tactic. It is just pure commitment. It is commitment to the people who are going to give you their money and it is commitment to say, I am going to keep being there for you like a bad 90’s Bon Jovi song and I am going to just keep delivering on the promise that I made to you and I think that it is such a fundamental to business Jeremy and so many people are failing on that and going after should I or should not I implement the content marketing platform. Jeremy Reeves: Yeah, yeah. I love it. Yeah, it is a brilliant words you know and it is very true you know what I mean. It is just the amount of caring that goes into a lot of businesses anymore it is just you know, subpar. It is too transactional you know what I mean versus actually caring about who you are serving in trying to help people you know and that is what business is all about you know. Chris Brogan: And you travel Jeremy? How many times -- do you have a bad airline experience? How many -- Jeremy Reeves: Every time. Chris Brogan: How many times does the hotel not the way you wish they would be. I mean, there is a whole system of experiences that you touch in your day or you can say to me, I am sure those people do not care about much about me. And I think that if I have made in my life work to keep helping companies figure out the way they implement that, that I will have a long career because so few companies are doing it. Jeremy Reeves: Yeah, yeah. It makes you stand out. Even if -- it is kind of just you know, being a good person if you just do the basic things that you know, apparently, parents used to teach, but they don’t anymore. You know, I am just being polite, being you know, curious, being on time you know, it is just it stands out just doing that. I mean, I think that should be like just the basic minimum threshold, but apparently, it is not anymore you know, and the same thing with business you know, everything that you just mentioned you know. Yeah, it is not rocket science. It is just the -- just do it. Chris Brogan: And you know, it does not always fit into a nice graphic or it does not always look great on a slide somewhere, but I think that, there are ways to implement it in day-to-day and I think that that is another thing that sets it apart from some of the advice that were being given out there Jeremy. Look at some of the other episodes of shows, not yours, but around the space and look at the sort of -- you just got to hustle. You just got to go for it you know. I have nothing against the word hustle. I just think that that is like saying you have got to have rubber tires on your car or it will not move anywhere. I think there is a lot more of having a car than -- and I think you need a really good engine. Jeremy Reeves: Yep. Absolutely. Well, hey, we are coming up on time here. So you know if anybody wants to reach out, what is the best way to get in touch with you to you know, work with you, to buy your books you know, which book would you recommend, I know you have a bunch you know. Let us know how to you know, how to get more Chris Brogan. Chris Brogan: Thank you. I just published a brand new book called Find Your Writing Voice. It came out a couple of days before you and I recorded this. The easiest way is either chrisbrogan.com or if that sounds hard to spell go to owner.media either way I can help you and connect in. I always tell people the same thing which is grab my newsletter because if you connect with my newsletter, if you feel like that makes sense to you and resonates with you then you like what I do and if you don’t you are going to not like anything I do, so do not bother. Jeremy Reeves: Yeah, yeah. It is a good point. Alright, well, hey, it was a pleasure having you on and I kind of e-meeting you here and you know, good luck with everything you are doing. Chris Brogan: We will do it face-to-face sometime Jeremy. Thank you so much.

If you aren’t patient enough to wait until the end of the podcast, you can click to the site here. So I got this email about 2 months ago from a guy named Ty. It wasn’t unusual that I received some sort of salesy email, but this one caught my eye.  “Hey Chris, I appreciate the opportunity to tell you more about our business and what we offer. Kole Imports is in its 31st year of business and we are one of the nation’s largest direct importers of general merchandise.  We have products ranging from dollar store merchandise all the way up to $30-$50 retail items.   We sell to everyone from your local discount stores all the way up to national chains like Walmart, Boscov’s, DD’s Discounts and many more. I developed our FBA services here where customers can purchase on our website and we can prep and ship their orders straight in to one or multiple fulfillment centers. We have thousands of products to choose from and a great selection of optional prep services.  Everything from labeling to bundling to repackaging and more.  With our labeling service customers have the option to essentially private label one of our generic products and create their own product pages.  We have seen great results with this approach. The process is super easy and streamlined and is explained in the FBA guide that I wrote here. I can go on but not sure how much detail you are looking for. I think this would be a great opportunity for your members.  We would also be willing to create some custom coupon codes for you that can be given out to the group that would help save even more off our wholesale prices.  I’ve also done webinars and live presentations on our services in the past and would be happy to do the same. Feel free to reach out via phone or email of you have any more questions or need more details. Looking forward to the relationship!” That was word for word the email I received. The part that caught my eye was: “I developed our FBA services here where customers can purchase on our website and we can prep and ship their orders straight in to one or multiple fulfillment centers.” So instead of running into the Facebook group and telling everyone and their brother about this service, I decided to do what I do best: Test, test, test.

This week has Chris, John, and Robert discussing Portland’s Punk/Riot Grrl (Grrrl?  Grill?) standout Sleater-Kinney.  Hosting abilities are compared, chocolate milk is consumed, and arch nemesis Carol returns.  Fun times are had.  Enjoy! “Hey Chris, you like Five Guys?” “No, I’m more of a Bi-Lesbian.” https://ia601501.us.archive.org/15/items/SaDSleaterKinney/SaD%20SleaterKinney.mp3