Sales Funnel Mastery: Business Growth | Conversions | Sales | Online Marketing

I'm back baby! In this episode I describe what I've been up to the past 2 years, some of the insane learning lessons I've had, a couple of the crazy wins I achieved, and where the podcast is headed next. Hit me up at jeremy@jeremyreeves.com with any thoughts, questions, or if you need help scaling your business!

In this episode... I tell you why I'm taking a "leave of absence" for a while... and what that means for the podcast!

In this episode, we talk about how to take control of your prospects buying process by understanding and exploiting the correct TIMING in your sales funnel. I'll also give you a few tips on ways to speed up the buying process so the best timing for them is exactly when you want them to buy (in an ethical way, of course). Enjoy! Resources Mentioned: None

In this episode, we discuss my daily ritual for achieving high performance for the long-term. Enjoy!

In today's episode, I share a funny (but somewhat sad) story of a berating prospective client, along with wisdom for both clients who hire service providers, and other service providers like myself. Enjoy... and play nice! Resources Mentioned Adagio Teas

In today's episode, I discuss a topic that plagues many entrepreneurs - testing "proof of concept" in the fastest way possible! That way you can course-correct quickly without wasting much time or money. Enjoy!   Resources Mentioned None

In this episode I talk about changes to the podcast in 2017, as well as my own 2017 goals! Resources Mentioned None

In this episode, I walk you through a very simple formula for creating "WOW" promotions... either throughout the holidays or at any point during the year. Enjoy! Resources Mentioned None Transcript Jeremy Reeves: Hey what is going on everybody. Jeremy Reeves here with another episode of The Sales Funnel Mastery Podcast. And I am actually in my car right now, so I apologized if there is any audio issues, but hopefully you can hear me well. I’m on my way home right now from a funnel day that I just had with a client and we went over something that I wanted to kind of share with everybody and that is creating a WOW Offer. I actually just realized that you know, the kind of acronym with it, the WOW was very easy one to kind of come up with because it stands for the WHAT so like, the WHAT are you selling, the OFFER and then the WHY, right. So the WHAT, the OFFER, and the WHY. So just think of that as a WOW offer. So let us start with the WHAT right, so when you are -- you know, when you are coming up with you know, right now it is kind of early December. A lot of people are going to be having Christmas sales and promotions and things like that. All that kind of fun stuff, New Years. For him, he is in the health industry so you know, we have a lot going on with you know, the New Year’s resolutions and all that kind of fun stuff. So the first thing that when you are figuring out an offer to do you know, and I created some amazing promotions for some of my past clients. I created tons and tons and tons of money for them and I am going to be doing you know, the same for him. The first (inaudible 1:45.7) to place is you know, what, like what are you giving away? So if you only have 1 product, the what is easy because you know, doing something with that product right. For him, he has all kinds of stuff. He has I think like 6 or 7 different supplements. He has these meal bags which are like a whole bunch of different meal bags in different varieties and shapes and sizes and colors and all kind of stuff you know, he has yoga pants. He is having all kinds of stuff you know. So we sat down first to figure out the what okay and I will not go into the details about exactly what we are doing because that is you know, kind of confidential information that we went over, but the point is the first thing that I want you to think off is what, right. What are you going to -- what is the promotion going to be around essentially like what is the product or the service that the promotion is going to be about, okay. And then once you figured that out then -- and by the way, I usually go for the one the most profitability. In case you have a bunch of products and services, go usually with the one that has the most profitability because -- I apologize, it is getting loud here, I am passing at really loud truck. Hold on, okay. So go with the one with the most profitability and the reason for that is if you are going to give a discount right, you have the most margin to play with, okay. So if you have something that only has like a 25% margin you know, you do not really have much to play with so your offer the next part -- your offer is not really going to be that sexy, okay. So now that you pick out your what, right. We are going to go to the offer. So when you are figuring out an offer, a lot of people get this wrong. This is the most important part of this entire process, okay. So when you are selling a product or service, the 3 things that you need to kind of keep in mind are the traffic you know, the audience, the offer, and the copy, okay. Now when you are doing these promotions by far the most important thing is the offer itself, alright. It is more important -- I mean you already have the audience because you are doing this to your house list so your audience (inaudible 4:03.4) taken care off right. And then the copy, if you have a great, great offer, the copy writes itself alright, much more so than you know, if you are writing like a full sales letter or something like that because this is just based 100% on the offer really you know. You are not really selling them on everything else. So when you are coming up with your offer, basically, you have to get creative here. This is something that really you just need to brainstorm with somebody. It is really hard to just think like, oh you know, let us just do this you know. Sometimes it is easy like if you have an information product, you can just do 50% off like that is easy you know, it is a great offer. If you are not that lucky, sometimes a little bit harder, right. So for him, we actually did 2 parts of an offer. So we did basically 1% off and then also we added kind of an extra thing to that. Again, I will not get into it because that is kind of what me and him went over, but we did kind of just like 2 part offer okay and then that actually led into our reason why, okay. So going back to the offers for a sec. What you want to try to do is come up with creative ways that you can add more value okay without digging into your profitability, alright. So that may mean one of two things. It may mean doing less of a discount, but giving them some other type of value in exchange like another bonus or more time for consultation or something like that or you can think of it in terms of if you use the offer itself as kind of a lost leader and then you have an up sell in place or you know your backend -- you know your backend stats and you know that even though you might not make a lot of money on the offer itself you are going to get people who are going to buy your next product then I would also consider that as part of this whole process, okay. So that is kind of your offer just come up with something that be creative. Do not be lazy about this. This is where you should spend like 80% of your time is actually thinking about an amazing offer that nobody else is offering that stands out, that is amazing like it is so awesome that it is like ridiculous to pass up. People would be just insane if they pass it up, alright. So now you have who or you know, you have the audience, alright. So you have the -- you know, you have the audience. You have the what, right. So you have the whatever product that you picked and now you have your offer, okay. So now we are at the last W in the equation here and that is the why, alright. You cannot do these promotions without a reason why. You have to have a reason why you are doing the promotion. Again, sometimes you can get lucky and the promotion is just as simple as you are doing a Black Friday sale or you are doing a birthday sale or an anniversary or Christmas sale or whatever it is, right, but people actually respond better and they do work really well, but people actually respond also really well because you do not have to do these for just around holidays. You can do them at any time really. I teach my clients how to do this all the time. You know, you can do a thank you sale. You can do you know, some type of like a customer anniversary right. So they bought it from you a year ago and it is 1 year anniversary. You can do the customer’s birthday you know. You can do it based around different holidays. You can do it based around different -- if you find the calendar with like wacky holidays on it like there is you know, National Popcorn day. The other day actually was National Chest Day so like in bodybuilding. It was National Chest Day right. So if you are selling like bras or something like that you know, you can do it in National Chest Day. So look for things like that. Get creative about it and make it a fun event okay. And then -- but come up with a reason why. So for this client, we are doing a double -- kind of a double promotion. So we kind of wrap that around and this is the only part (inaudible 8:28.5) we wrap that around the fact that in his office they were celebrating the two kind of biggest you know, most common holidays in the month of December which are Hanukkah and Christmas, okay and you know, of course, there are other ones, but those are like the two that -- he and his staff are celebrating okay. So you know, the whole kind of theme is wrap around hey you know, we are doing -- we are having multiple holiday parties and celebrations and we thought that you should join in on the fun and you get rather than just giving you one discount (inaudible 9:02.1) giving 2 separate -- it is kind of like a double promotion-type deal, right. So that is kind of what we did you know for him, alright. And that is pretty much all there is to it. So just think of the WOW Formula, okay. So you are thinking of the WHAT and that is the actual like whatever the product or the services that you are going to wrap the promotion around and then you are thinking of the OFFER itself and then you are thinking of the WHY, the reason why, okay. And if you really nail those 3, and that is all you have to nail because if you get those, the copies are going to write itself and obviously you can do you know, you can increase the results quite a bit with really, really, really solid copy, but if you really nail those, you are already 80% of the way there and then you know, the better copy you write it is just going to take the really good results that you are going to get, it is going to amplify those results and get you better results, right. So that is it. That is all I got for today. I am actually going to be home here in a couple of minutes. So I am going to hop off here, but I hope everyone has a fantastic week and I hope you are also having fantastic month. Again, really quick reminder, if you have not started planning for 2017, do it now. Now is the time to start planning. Do not wait until after January you know. You want to start planning January now and next year and start getting your promotions in place so that you can hit the ground running in January rather than starting from scratch in January. Huge, huge difference in terms of your overall motivation level going in to the New Year, right. So I hope everyone is doing well. I hope you enjoy this episode and that you share it with your friends and all that kind of good stuff and if you want to get in touch to talk about a project then just reach out at support@jeremyreeves.com. I will talk to you soon.

In today's episode, I walk you through the 3 crucial steps I ask myself and my clients when we're thinking of the fastest, easiest path to grow. Very important to know as you put together your 2017 plan. Enjoy! Resources Mentioned None Transcript Jeremy Reeves: Hey what is going on guys and girls. Jeremy Reeves here with another episode of The Sales Funnel Mastery Podcast. Today, I want to talk about something that -- I have been thinking about actually since yesterday. So I have a phone call with someone yesterday, David. Hi David, if you are listening to this. I do not know if you are listening to podcast or not. But David and I are going to do a funnel day together. It turns out he actually lives like an hour from me which is kind of awesome. I do not really you know, find too many people who also live in Pennsylvania and especially close to me. So that is kind of cool. And you know one of the things that we kind of talked about and will figure out during the funnel day is kind of where to start, right because he has a lot of things going on, they are already doing really, really well in business, but they do not really have good sales funnel in place. So we are going to work on this kind of you know, taking them from doing well to doing you know, really well you know, from great to extraordinary that kind of thing. And so I have been thinking since I talked to him yesterday about you know, when you have a lot of things going on or even if you do not have that many things going on but you are you know, you are looking to grow you know, it is December 1st as I am recording this and you know, if you are looking to grow for next year like you know, a lot of you guys and girls are probably thinking about 2017 now and it is like alright well you know, I am making my plan for next year and where do I start? Like you know, what are the things to focus on because there is a billion different things that you can do, but there is only one of you, you know, and even if you have a team there is only 1 team. There is only a certain finite amount of people on your team that have a finite amount of time. So you have to figure out how to spend that time wisely. So I pretty much you know, when I am looking at you know, where do you start first right. There are really 3 big things that I look at, okay and the first one is, where you already have momentum. So you know, look at your business and if you have a hundred things going on and you are looking to find new growth in your business start with you know, where do you already have the most momentum, okay. And I typically like, I like to maximize the places that are already doing well. So for example if you have let us just say that your main source of traffic is affiliates, right. Could be affiliates, could be cold traffic you know or you know it could be like pay-per-click, Facebook or Google or whatever or it could be you know, SEO or whatever it is. Look at you know, figure out where you already have that momentum and maximize that first okay. So if you are already doing Facebook ads before you start going into you know, Youtube and Nativeads and you know SEO like all those other things. First, maximize what is already working in your business. That is going to help you find you know, faster growth than if you start a new like a new traffic channel for example right. If affiliates are your biggest thing, then maximize that first right. Really nail down that process first before moving on to you know, to other things, you know, to other traffic sources or to other you know, conversion things that you are testing or whatever it is. So that is the first big one is find out where you already have momentum. Put your focus there first right and maximize that first before moving on to other things. The second thing is what is the biggest leverage, okay. By the way some of these may cancel the other one out. So you are going to have to you know, there is a little bit of a gut call in here and that is why these funnel days are so valuable with people because we talk about you know, we discuss all of this. We go through all of this. It brings clarity in everything and we figure out we kind of consider all the different angles and figure out which way is the best one okay. And (inaudible 4:03.5) is just experience. It is your gut. It is your intuition figuring out where to you know, where to go next. So anyway, so the second one is you know, what is the biggest leverage, okay. So you know, you guys have probably heard a lot about leverage you know, it is always you know, if you want to grow you know, figure out where you can have the most leverage because for every you know, ounce of energy that you put in you want to find what is going to give you the biggest output for the least input essentially, right. So you know, figure out. Look at your business and say okay, where do I have leverage. Where is you know, so for example let us just say that you have 8 different products right, and one of those products is by far you know, head and shoulders a clear winner that gives you the most revenue right. So for example let us just say that you have just for example’s sake. Let us just say that you have 7 like lower end products for like $50 or $100 and then you have 1 that is $1,000 right. Well you might want to focus on the $1,000 product because that is going to give you the biggest leverage right. Maybe you put together webinar for that or maybe you know, whatever your kind of sales process for that is going to be. You have to look at where am I going to find the biggest leverage. Like where can I get the biggest growth from least amount of effort okay, because essentially if you can you know, if you have 8 hours in a day and it is only going to take you 2 hours to work on the you know, the thing with the biggest leverage, okay. And you can you know, you are going to get a bigger impact from that than if you put 6 hours in something else right. Where are you going to spend your time, you are going to spend it on the one where you can get the biggest leverage with a least amount of effort, okay. Because then that freeze up your time to also include other things to add other things into the mix you know. To make new hires or to start new marketing channels or to start splint testing or you know, whatever your time is best spent doing okay. So you know, number 1, look where you already have momentum. Number 2 where is your biggest leverage, okay. So for him, he is in like the health space okay. So he has various products and supplements and things like that and so for him, the biggest leverage you know, there are kind of 2 ways that you know, I feel we are probably going to go about it. Number 1 he already has momentum selling you know bags right there are these like (inaudible 6:34.7) bags. So there is already momentum there okay, but then we are also looking at what is the biggest leverage and that is more of the supplements because there is a lot more opportunity there to grow over the bags okay. So that is probably like what I was talking before about where you have to look at all of the different factors and say okay well you know, what is the best one like using your intuition. For me so far, not knowing that much about the business yet I will find that out more when we do the funnel day. That one is probably going to be the winner looking into the supplements because that is where I have a lot of my expertise. That is where he can find the biggest opportunity for growth okay because you know, it has a higher margins. There is more places to sell it. You can get into cold traffic whereas with the bags it is you know, a little bit harder to do that you know, because there are not like such -- as easy as it sell you know, that kind of thing. So there are a lot of factors (inaudible 7:32.2). The 3rd one is where can you get the quickest win. So a lot of times -- this is really about knowing your own personality right? So for me, not always, but sometimes, I can push back the reward for a very long time okay. So for example, I just launched the high ticket freedom formula course, alright. I worked on that for you know a good portion of this year knowing that I was not going to see any kind of financial reward right, for a long time and that is okay because I knew that once it went live you know, the reward was going to be worth it okay. It is actually -- we are actually going live on Facebook ads tomorrow with that. So that is really exciting. I am not sure when this is going live. If Andrea gets it live today then -- she is my VA, then it will be going live tomorrow, but anyway, so you know, where can you get the quickest one? A lot of people you know, and this is not a good or bad thing. It is just kind of it is what it is. A lot of people need confidence, alright. They need confidence in order to keep progressing. So rather than -- and this is what I do with a lot of my clients. If I have a really big funnel that I am putting together for clients that is going to take like 2 or 3 months right. A lot of times what I will do is get them a quick win upfront. So for example, for this client, right, we are probably going to figure out a lot of stuff that we can do over the next like 3 or 6 months, but I do not want to have to make him wait to get a return on this investment right because when I work with clients, one of the you know, the first things that goes through my head is how do I get this client a return right, where they are making money back as fast as humanly possible. And for him, you know, it is December 1st today, right. So what is coming up in a month for health. Everybody wants to lose weight. So you know, there is a very, very good chance that we are going to do a promotion, some kind of promotion this month or you know, set it up for early next month or whatever. We will figure that out with him to get him a quick win. So that win is going to basically pay for my fees right and then the rest is kind of just -- he already got that win and the rest is gravy right. So you know, where can you get the quickest win is the 3rd big one. What I do is when I am working with clients especially during these funnel days. That is what I look at right. So you know, we look at where you already have momentum. We look at you know, where is the biggest leverage in the business? What is the biggest opportunity for growth and the easiest way to get that you know opportunity you know, so if you have a whole bunch of trip wires that is probably not the biggest opportunity. If you have some kind of standout products or services that are higher ticket and you know that kind of thing, the biggest leverage is probably getting a funnel like a paid funnel to that to work properly right. And then the 3rd thing is you know where can you get the quickest win. So while you are thinking about 1 and 2 that is like more of a long term, right, you are also thinking about the short term and that is where you can get the quickest win, okay. So can you do some kind of you know promotion to get a quick win? Can you do -- if you are going to put together a big funnel, can you do just one piece of it, launch that to your audience get the results and then use that to kind of springboard to the rest of the sales funnel right. So you know, those are just kind of -- a couple quick things that I look at you know, I know everybody is going to start thinking about planning that kind of thing and you know, those are some of the ways that I look at you know, essentially how to achieve faster growth in the easiest way because there is you know, you can find growth. Anybody can grow, but it is a matter of how hard it is and how reliable is going to actually happen, right like the chances of it actually working. So those are some of the ways that I work with clients and also in my own business for you know, looking at growth right. So I hope you enjoy that. If you want to get in touch about doing a funnel day feel free to reach out. You can email support@jeremyreeves.com. Just let me know if you want any more information about that. It is basically where we spend an entire day together and kind of map out you know, everything in your business. It really depends on what your goals are you know, it is all based on you. There is not like you know, we do this then we do this then we do this. It is all based on you know, where you are in your business and what you are trying to achieve. I have done them in the past where you know, working with multi-million dollar companies that you know, the owner just wanted more free time right and we figured out ways to automate her marketing and you know, put together an automated sales funnel and she actually took a 2-week vacation for the first time -- completely unplugged in, I think it was like 8 years before that which is kind of awesome you know And then there are other things that (inaudible 12:16.4) looking for growth you know. I actually just did one a couple of weeks ago and showed the client a lead generation technique that doubled his leads right, within -- it was like 2 days after the funnel day and he -- he actually emailed me and he is like, Oh my God dude, I just got like double leads and yeah so everything above that I mean it is you know, double leads and then we have also put together stuff for you know, higher conversions throughout the sales funnel, all that kind of fun stuff you know, I can go on and on. Another one actually I did last -- I think it was last year. Last year you know, she -- and I talked about this in the high ticket freedom formula webinar. She quadrupled her business since you know, since our funnel day and it is really just about focusing you know, it is about okay, well what is working you know, where is the leverage and you know, let us nail that and that what she did and she quadrupled her business. She went from -- it was around $20,000 a month and now I think it averages $80,000 a month. She has had a couple $100,000 plus months. In fact, I think last month, she had $100,000 because she does income reports. So I follow her you know, keep in touch. But anyway, if you are interested in that, shoot me an email it is at support@jeremyreeves.com and we can chat about that and yeah that is it for today. I hope you have an amazing weekend. I hope this helped you and anything else I can do to help you just let me know. Talk to you soon.  

In this episode, we chat with "Doberman Dan", Dan Gallapoo. Dan has gone through more disasters and failures than most people do in a lifetime, yet has figured out a way to "get up" over and over again. We talk about what it means to be a REAL entrepreneur, how to continue to push forward when everything around you is crumbling, and much more. This is a must-listen! Resources Mentioned dobermandan.com Transcript Jeremy Reeves: Hey what is going on guys and girls. Jeremy Reeves here with another episode of The Sales Funnel Mastery Podcast. I am saying my own title wrong. And today I have on the line, a good buddy of mine. His name is Doberman Dan. If you guys have been around you may or may not have heard his name. He is a little bit of an underground kind of guy, a little bit how I am and he likes it that way. He likes to do things to himself in the dark. Dan is -- he is basically the true definition of a kitchen-table entrepreneur you know and that is kind of what we are going to talk about today is you know, what a real entrepreneur is and some of the stories that he has. I know -- I met him down in -- I think it was Florida? Doberman Dan: Yeah. We were in Naples. Jeremy Reeves: Yeah. Naples. Both kind of working with the same client and so we you know, had a fun night out and I heard some of his stories. I am not sure he is going to repeat them on here or not but he has got some interesting tales and so we are going to get into that. I am going to kind of give a little bit of a disclaimer that you may not want to listen to this when you are in front of young children or sensitive wives or husbands. If anybody is sensitive to language, I have given Dan full permission to be himself, so we are going to see where that leads. And you know, like I said, he has got some interesting you know, stories to tell. So with that said, Dan, tell everybody a little bit more about your story and kind of you know, where you started you know, some of the things that you have done in your life. What you do first of all and we will go from there. Doberman Dan: Well thanks for the opportunity Jeremy. I have been looking forward to this. We had fun down in Naples and I mean really other than some emails we really have not a chance to speak since then. Jeremy Reeves: I know. It sucks. Doberman Dan: So cool. So now we got to do that and then you get to record it and other people got to eavesdrop I guess. So I am going to tell all the crazy stuff you did on Naples after several weeks (inaudible 2:27.0) lampshades on your head and all that stuff. Jeremy Reeves: Yeah. I was drinking at Manhattan that night I think. Doberman Dan: That is right. That is right. So my story is I am a guy who grew up in Barberton, Ohio. So raised by poor parents. They are good people, just poor. Poor because they were poor in thought and -- you know, not to make excuses, but my mother grew up in (inaudible 2:56.8) poverty and if you ain’t seen Mississippi poverty, you ain’t seen poverty. It ain’t like the poverty you know, you and I see Jeremy when I lived in Ohio and you up in PA. This is 3rd world poverty. So you know, that affects a person and they usually (inaudible 3:16.3) so that was pretty much my life had been decided for me because of that conditioning and my faith so to speak was for me to graduate from Barberton high school and do the best -- get the best job I could possibly get which was at that time (inaudible 3:38.1 ) rubber companies in Akron, Ohio, but I get fired (inaudible 3:41.8 ). Unfortunately, in 83, when I graduated (inaudible 3:46.5) started moving out of Akron. So yeah, I did figure out what the heck I was going to do and to keep this short, I bounced around from thing to thing. Took the first jobs I could get and they were a lot of them. Vacuum cleaner salesman. Jeremy Reeves: Nice. Doberman Dan: Yeah. Jeremy Reeves: That had to be exciting. Doberman Dan: So exciting. I was not door to door though, although, I have sold stuff door to door too, not vacuum cleaners but (inaudible 4:16.4) distance service door to door, but yeah, the vacuum cleaner gig was I was manufacturers rep, but I would go into retail establishments and I have to sell the people you know, looking for vacuum cleaner. I had to sell them all my particular brand and so -- Anyway, one of the gigs I got was in security at the mall and then that lead to loss prevention job in a department store. This pre-camera days Jeremy if you keeping imagining this we lurked the floor in you know, just civilian clothes with a bag on our hands like we were shoppers, but we are out looking for shoplifters. So that lead to meeting some of the local cops and then some of our friends I worked with say, Hey, work at city of Dayton, giving civil service test for police officer. We are going to go take it next week. You want to go? And my first reaction was, well, yeah I guess. I will take the civil service test but anything after that if they call me in for an interview you know, I have to be honest about my drug use in high school and he was like, wait you are going to be disqualified because I smoked a lot of weed. Anyway, long story short, the Dayton Police Department understood that that was part of the growing up phase and they hired me. And that was supposed to be a temporary gig Jeremy while I went and sought my true life form dream of being a professional musician. So the police department thing was like, ah well, I can (inaudible 5:50.3) buy some guitar gears and recording gear you know and then when I get (inaudible 5:55.9) money saved up, I will move out to LA and go to musician institute or something. Anyway, my temporary and I am doing (inaudible 6:05.3) temporary job with the city turned into a 12 year gig and through 9 of those years, first 3 years full time police officer, part-time entrepreneur, but part-time failed entrepreneur every single venture. I tried to go in, just crashed and burned. It was painful. If I got (inaudible 6:35.2) or I would have been living under bridges and eating up dumpsters. So through just at filing, getting tired of beat my head up against the wall, and all these failed ventures, I stumbled upon this dude name Dan Kennedy. You have heard of Dan right. Jeremy Reeves: A little bit. Doberman Dan: Speaking of an underground guy. Nobody in online marketing or direct response marketing has ever heard of Dan Kennedy. Jeremy Reeves: He is probably the most well known marketer I think that has ever lived. Doberman Dan: I am going to agree with that. So I bought some of Dan’s stuff because it was promising that it could help you get a lot of customers and whatever business I had at that time (inaudible 7:16.8) was failing miserably I thought well maybe this is what I need, but I totally got flipped around when I realized, man I just bought some really bad copies in a 3-ring binder in like really bad audio cassette copy, probably like 8th generation audio cassette copy. If anybody remembers audio cassette it is like, would you make a copy of a copy of a copy 8 times. The quality of that is like (inaudible 7:47.7). Jeremy Reeves: They sound like The Martian. Doberman Dan: That is right. And I realized -- oh by the way, the product was awesome. It was all information about direct response marketing which I did not know anything about, but I realized this Dave Kennedy dude just sold me this thing paper and ink and a few cassettes for $400 with a letter and I thought, that is a way cooler business than any of these other ones I have tried to get going. So yeah, they got me started down the path of direct response marketing and copywriting and that led me starting my first mail order business in 1995 which was an information business in bodybuilding market. That was after 9 years of failure, that was the first business that works for me and about a year later, it was making -- not a lot of money, but it was making enough money to get me free of the police department job. So ever since 95 that has been my whole deal. Me starting businesses like that on my kitchen table with nothing but a yellow pad, a blue pen, and this squishy gray matter between my ears. Jeremy Reeves: Nice. Yeah. And you know, I know you used to be on the bodybuilding. In fact, I actually saw a picture, I do not know. I think this is you. There is a gray picture -- if you look up Doberman Dan in Google there is a gray picture of you I think when you were younger. It is in Fitness Atlantic. I am going to Skype it to you right now. Doberman Dan: I am 51 now, I am sure I was in much better shape when I was younger. I am sure of it when I was younger. Jeremy Reeves: There. I just send it to you. I am going to put that picture up in the show notes just to embarrass you. Doberman Dan: (inaudible 9:33.6) make sure it is me. My goodness. I am downloading it now. This will be interesting. Is it the one in the blue shirt? Jeremy Reeves: No. No. You have your shirt off. Doberman Dan: Oh no, no, no, no. That is not me (inaudible 9:51.9) any pictures of me with my shirt off. Jeremy Reeves: Okay. It looks like you actually. Alright. Never mind, I cannot embarrass you then. Damn it. Alright. Anyway, so getting back to copy and not talking about your shirt off. As exciting is that would probably be to listen to. Doberman Dan: At this point, at age 51, it will be exciting to know one. Jeremy Reeves: So I mean you used to be a huge -- are you doing anything with that anymore. I feel like you sold that business a while back right? Doberman Dan: Yeah I did. That infobusiness in bodybuilding niche led to a supplement business. My first supplement business because I figure it out you know, (inaudible 10:34.2) I am making pretty money selling infoproducts to these guys, but these guys are -- spent a lot of money on supplements. So I just kind of figured, all I need to do with my customers who buy my info is just flipped them to buy supplements from me. They are already buying the stuff. (inaudible 10:50.9) buying them for me and that 10x my business (inaudible 10:54.8) overnight. So that was fun, but I sold that business quite some time ago yeah. Jeremy Reeves: Yeah that is -- I work with a lot of people in the you know, the health market now and that is one of their main strategies is like, hey, I am going to teach you how to do this and then the pitch is so easy. It is hey, look, you know, I just taught you how to do whatever like overcome this or you know, get bigger or get skinnier or you know, get better vision or feel better or whatever it is and then it is like, hey do you want to just take a pill and you know, and you will get that result and it is such an easy like just you know, like you said, 10 times your business and you know, I think that is why -- it such an -- like a congruent up sell to what you sold them first you know. I think a lot of people missed that you know, when they are doing up sells I see people they are selling 1 thing and then you know, you get to the next page or they have the backend and they are selling something that is like, it is like kind of in the same realm, but it is really not like hey, you know, it is not the next logical step you know. Like infoproduct to a supplement is a perfect logical step because it is like hey, you can either go through everything. Do everything on your own. It is going to take in the next 6 months to get results. It is going to be complicated blah.. blah.. blah. or you are going to just take this and you know, you get bigger or get skinnier or whatever and it takes like 3 seconds you just pop the pill. I actually just took a fish or krill oil supplement as you were talking. But yeah -- Doberman Dan: I agree. Sorry to interrupt. You just pointed out something that is you know, from your observations there is really downright brilliant. It is a great marketing lesson and it is also a good lesson in human nature that people want the magic pill. So the closer your stuff whatever that is your product, your services, your advise can be to a magic pill most likely the better it is going to sell. So the bodbuilders like I said they will buy information, but what they really wanted is they wanted the magic pill or they want -- I want the magic protein powder that I can drink this today and tomorrow I wake up looking like Arnold. And even so that is what they want to buy you know, they are buying protein powder and creatine stuff. So I sold what they wanted. Now the reality is all that stuff helps okay, but what they really need was better information. They were all eating like crap and they were trained right. So I quickly flipped my business model to sell them what they want and give them what they need about infoproducts that I was selling now became bonuses that I gifted my customers when they bought supplements. Jeremy Reeves: Nice. I like that. So I have a -- I have a transition. I am stretching it a little bit, but I wanted to bring it up and I am going to warn everybody that if you are still around family you may not want to be, but do you think -- we were just talking about the magic pill, right. Do you think that that is what politicians are selling? You know, if you think about everything going on with you know, with Hillary and doofus right. You know Hillary and Trump you know, think about what they are selling people. It is the magic pill. Hey, you know, elect me and you are going to get this and this and this and this and you do not have to do anything for it because all you have to do is pay your tax is what you are doing anyway and I am going to fix all your problems for you, you know. What are your thoughts on that and just you know, politics and kind of government in general? Doberman Dan: That is not a stretch at all, political issues. That is totally related. Yeah. I mean I would 100% agree with that. I think that is what -- I think that is what these guys are selling. They are selling the magic pill because they are -- I mean as far as marketers, they are smart. Jeremy Reeves: Their marketing is insane. Doberman Dan: Maybe not the politicians, but at least whoever their handlers are. You know, they understand the psychology of persuasion. Listen, even the most logical amongst us wants to believe in the magic pill. There is something in us that wants to believe it even though we know it just does not exist. And so they are offering all kinds of stuff you know and you know, we are going to take care of you, cradle the grave, healthcare is going to be free you know, we are going to make university free now, this and that is going to be free, it is going to be so much better because we are running it. Thank God we are getting the evil greedy capitalist out of this shit and you know, we are taking it over. And people want that. I will correct you (inaudible 15:59.0) something you said and the part of the pitch is you just keep paying your taxes, we are going to take care of -- well, half the people are not paying taxes. So we have arrived at the point where the productive 50% are supporting those who choose to be unproductive. Jeremy Reeves: That is a good point. Doberman Dan: You know, here is the bottom line. Anything that the government -- the government produces nothing. The government does not produce values. Anything the government gives you, they have taken from somebody else and they have taken it by force, by either use of deadly force or the use of incarceration or the threat of deadly force and threat of incarceration. So if you are taking money from the government you know, I do not see how anybody can feel good about that because what was given to you was taken away from somebody at gunpoint. In (inaudible 17:01.6) well they have so much you know, they deserved (inaudible 17:04.6) take it from them. Really? Let us apply that to you. I am going to show up your house with a bunch of armed guys and I am going stick my Glock 19, my sidearm of choice it is like 98. I am going to stick it in your face or better than yet I am going to stick it in your children’s face and I am going to tell you everything. I want half of everything you got right now and if I do not get it, I am going to incarcerate you and your family or worse, I will just -- if you resist and do not go on peacefully, we are going to kill you. Because you have so much and others have so little. And I am not talking about people who are not capable of producing from themselves you know. My gosh, we should help them. We personally (inaudible 17:53.5) the people. The government has no business being in that business because they screwed up. They take 99% of the money from themselves and use 1% of it to help the people who need help. Jeremy Reeves: I am going to interrupt you really quick right there. I just saw a thing the other day. Now this is not government, but it is just -- it is kind of the same when you are talking about like efficiency of you know, people like, oh I paid my taxes and it goes toward this and this and this and the fact is, it does not you know. So I was just reading something the other day about Red Cross right you know, big charity everybody trust them. Doberman Dan: For good sample. Jeremy Reeves: Right. They got a half of billion dollars, I think it was last year. I forgot the timeframe. Just say it was last year right. Half a billion dollars and their thing is they build houses in like 3rd world countries that kind of thing right. So half a billion right. Guess how many houses they build with it? Doberman Dan: With the half of billion, you could build a lot of house. Jeremy Reeves: Yeah. Just take a guess. Doberman Dan: I have no idea. Jeremy Reeves: Go on. Throw some out there. Doberman Dan: I mean, if you are building nice solid you know, house. I mean you could build thousands of thousands with that much money. Jeremy Reeves: Six. Six houses. So they are building basically you know, whatever that is like 85 million dollar houses. That is the efficiency. You know, compare that if that money went to an entrepreneur and that was his business to be able to build houses and somehow he got compensated for that right. There are some type of incentive to do that you know, how many you think could be build? They probably build them for -- I do not know, say $20,000 each, so that is I do not know what the hell the math is on that one. It is a lot you know. If it is 50,000 even it is -- Jesus (inaudible 19:40.1) 10,000 or 100,000 houses versus 6 you know what I mean. I think that goes to kind of prove the point on that you know and it is just you know, who is going to build the roads of all entrepreneurs well you know. Who is going to do this for us entrepreneurs. And it is going to be cheaper. It is going to be more fare because there is actually competition. That is like you know, people -- that is actually another good point you know, bring it back to marketing is when people say, hey, you know, I am going to try to find an industry with no competition and it is like, no, because nobody is buying anything there you know. Doberman Dan: That is right. There is a reason there is no competition. Jeremy Reeves: Yeah. And it is good going into markets with competition because even if you are new to it, it forces you to be better, you know what I mean. Regardless of what it is you know, someone comes out with a similar product as you. Well guess what, you got to go back to the drawing board. You got to figure out how to make yourself better you know. That is what being an entrepreneur is all about you know. It is not about just creating something, making money and just sitting there. It is about creating something, making money, and then going back to the beginning and saying okay, how do we make this better. How do we you know, improve our efficiency. How do we you know add more value. How do we you know, whatever. And it is just you know, people I think forget that point you know. Have you ever had any experience with that? Like you know, as you were building some of the businesses that you have over the years, have you ever kind of come across a situation where you know, you have it, it was doing well and then all of the sudden something happened whether it is a new competitor or you know, Google banned you or you know whatever you know, something happened and you have to kind of go back to the drawing board and you know, you kind of hit that “O shit moment” and you have to go back and then kind of made everything better you know, than it were been? Doberman Dan: All the time in every single venture I have started since 1995. Once, the last supplement business -- the supplement business that I sold back in 2012 which I started in 2004 because of things like that, because of changes in Google AdWords and other online marketing changes that happened, like I lost half of my business overnight. I had this dream that I am going to start some deal that after get it going and tweaked in and doing testing, I get it going good. It is just going to be smooth sailing and it is just going to keep going like it never happened. There is always something that happens like you mentioned. Competitors coming in (inaudible 22:18.6) you know. Advertising media being taken away, Google AdWords, I mean we have been through several versions of that. Facebook is now -- many people are going through. I just went through that just a couple of months ago. Facebook ads are working great. Facebook ads just going to hell overnight. Email marketing just kicking ass. All of the sudden open rates across all different platforms AWeber, Infusionsoft all these different 3rd party platforms. Boom. Open rates cut in half. Now all of the sudden, you know, less than 50% of the people who used to get through messages are now getting them. It happens all the time and it is still frustrating but let us take a 30,000 feet from above view on this Jeremy. I think the reason most people become entrepreneurs even if they do not know it at that time because everybody says they get into this for the money or the lifestyle or both. I do not really believe that is why they are in it. I think that is -- those things are serendipities. I think the person who is attracted to this lifestyle is getting into it or even if they are not conscious of it because they want to grow as a human being and you cannot be the same -- let us say you are making a $100,000 a year now in your business and you want to make $200,000, you cannot be the same person you are now and grow your business to the point where you are making $200,000. You have got to grown and improve as a person and all these challenges that constantly hit us as entrepreneurs and things working great all of the sudden go to pot all that stuff. It is your self-improvement process. Jeremy Reeves: Yeah. Doberman Dan: That is you know, I mean like, it seems like it sucks at that time. It is it biggest blessing from the universe you could ever possibly ask for. Jeremy Reeves: Yeah you know what, I think that is a good point. You know, people still you know, kind of think of the whole mindset thing. It is like, oh well you know, mindset does not matter. It is just you know, cookie it is (inaudible 24:41.1) you know, but honestly, I have never ever, ever, ever in my life come across a person that was really successful that mindset was not the number 1 thing that they focused on you know. It is like you need like the skills or whatever you do, but if you do not have the mindset to back it up, the ideas never even come you know. The thoughts never formed. If you are not ready to grow when you know, shit hits the fan like you just, you crumble you know and that is why you hear a lot of entrepreneurs something happens and they just never get out of it you know, they hit that they hit the rock bottom and you know, the rock is just keep tumbling all over him versus you know the really successful entrepreneurs. They hit rock bottom all the time you know, a lot of us. And thankfully, like as you get more -- as you get more successful it seems like the bottom is a little bit higher you know. So like I know my old failures like you know, looking at them now is like who freaking cares. It was like (inaudible 25:42.8). Whereas now it is like, it is easier to kind of pick yourself up off the floor you know what I mean, because you you know, because you are better as a person you know. You have more skills, you have a better mindset. You can push yourself through it. I think a lot of people you know just expecting to go smooth all the time. They expect to launch a product and it is profitable. Boom day 1 you know, like how often does that really happen. You know, it requires testing and tweaking and then it becomes profitable and then you know, you start multiplying the profits and then guess what? Eventually, like you said, something happens and it goes back down then you got to figure out okay, you know, what happened or why it happened. How do we fix it you know. And like you said, a lot of times, when the bad things happened that in the moment you think is like the most horrific thing ever. Like you said, it is typically like a big blessing in disguise and you can rebuild the business a lot stronger than it was because when bad things happened it reveals the weaknesses that were in the business. So then you rebuild it with by strengthening those weaknesses so then you know, it does not happen again, hopefully. Doberman Dan: That is so true. And the mindset is a key to all that. I have had a love-hate relationship with mindset back when I was the 9-year serial failure entrepreneur. I got deep into all the (inaudible 27:11.3) stuff (inaudible 27:12.4) all the classic stuff. I mean constantly listening to those tapes you know, somebody got the Amway business so I was going to all those functions and you know, I was deep into it as you can get. I mean could quote chapter and verse all of the stuff you know. Every day and (inaudible 27:29.5) I am getting better and better (inaudible 27:31.5) and all that stuff you know. Things in my life were just not working. It was horrible and after a while I just got fed up and I am like you know, the hell with this. Let us just focus on pragmatic stuff and I learned direct response marketing and copywriting and I just put my head down and just work like a fiend and things went well because of that, but they never went really well. I would grow things -- I would get things going that would grow really fast and I have this big successes and then you know, I would lose all my -- I have gone broke 4 times. I have gone legally bankrupt once and then completely broke another 3 -- almost 4 times but 3 times for sure broke like nothing. And that kept happening and you know, but still I was able to persist just because of an insane work ethic and just stupid persistence like anybody in the right mind should have quit and I was keep going. Jeremy Reeves: Yeah. Sometimes it helps being slightly insane. Doberman Dan: (inaudible 28:45.9) insanity. Insanity has my vote. (inaudible 28:50.0) crazy people are the happiest so but I just always hit these brick walls until recently and I think I finally found my balance. I mean, yeah, it is mind status such a huge part of it and there is stuff that you know, I do not understand why it works that way. First of all you feel better when you have the right mindset so that affects what you do and how you react to stuff that there is some other energy-related, quantum physics-related things going on with that too. The past couple of years since I finally found my balance between the pragmatic but just do a whole a bunch of stuff and work like crazy. Balancing that with the right mindset the floodgates have open (inaudible 29:36.3) 21 years but you know, in most cases, one of my friend says, it is not a skill set, it is a mindset. If you have the right mindset, you can get the skill set you need to do whatever it is you want or you can buy the skill set you need by hiring somebody else or you know, if you really got a vision, you will find people with the skill sets you need who will follow you. So yeah, mindset is huge man. Jeremy Reeves: Yeah and you know, one of the things you are kind of talking about was the ability to just get back up you know when you are down and just the ability to push through it with just you know, (inaudible 30:21.1) determinance is that a word? Doberman Dan: It is now. Jeremy Reeves: Determinance, I am going to use that in email. Remember everybody you heard it here first (inaudible 30:35.6). Shit. Now I forgot what I was talking about. Doberman Dan: Getting up once you get knocked down. Jeremy Reeves: Yeah. Yeah. I mean it is like anything else in your life you know. If you want to like you know, you have been into bodybuilding and the only way that your muscle grows is that if you add you know extra stimulus that is not used to and you push your body to grow. You know if you go and you do this you know, you are curling 40 pounds every single time you go, well guess what, you are going to get strong just like -- just strong enough so your body can lift that weight comfortably you know and it is not going to get any stronger because why would it. That is all you are doing every time, but if you go into the gym every single day and every time you are pushing yourself you know, your body has to adapt and that is how you get stronger and bigger and you know, the same thing losing weight. I mean, you have to go into a deficit you know to lose weight and you know, sometimes that means being hungry you know, and you just have to say well freaking shit, I want to lose weight you know. I know I am hungry, but you know, you just kind of push through it. I feel like a lot of you know, since the whole like (inaudible 31:40.8) talking about before you know, we started recording you know, I am all about lifestyle, but a lot of people take like they start a business and they are like, oh I want a lifestyle business. And they think that they can do that from day 1 you know and it is just not the case you know. You have to have that momentum first before you can have the lifestyle like you have to do like you did. It took you 21 years, but now you have the lifestyle you know. It may take some people longer. It may take some people shorter you know. I think it is a lot easier to make money now than it was you know, back in like 90s and everything because it was you know, with just you know, online marketing methods it is so much easier to just get your you know, get your name out there. But yeah, I mean, I think that, I think that like rugged entrepreneur mindset has vanished since the internet came out you know. What do you think about that? Doberman Dan: Well, it seems to be vanishing in the U.S. but since to be thriving in other countries like Asia. In fact, Dan Kennedy told me just a few weeks ago that if he were younger man and was not in the process of pretty much scaling down to retirement in the next year or so he would be completely focused on Asia because they have the mindset and the work ethic that we used to have here. Although, you know, I should not generalized. There are still, there are still a lot of people who have it here. Jeremy Reeves: Oh sure. Definitely. Doberman Dan: You know, it seems to have been brainwashed out of entire generations. Yeah. It is the persistence. It is the -- it is just getting back up when you get knocked down that I do not know man. It does look seemed to be that we have that like we used to know. It sounds like (inaudible 33:37.0) and maybe we can blame the government. I mean they have been -- Jeremy Reeves: Might as well. Doberman Dan: (inaudible 33:45.2) they have been working really hard since about World War II to condition that mindset in the people because of their agenda. And you know, like hey, do not worry about it you know we got to take care or take care your cradle to grave you know just get on the gravy train man. Just (inaudible 34:05.6). And you know, so there is that safety net like for me that was not an option. There was no safety net. The option was I made this work or you know, I am literally homeless which I have been literally homeless. Thank God I have this piece of shit 10-year-old Ford Taurus to live in for about a month while I went through that, but you know, those -- I did not have any other options, so I had to get that go. And I will say this. People asked me how did you keep doing it after so many failures for so long like 10 year, a decade of one after the other business failures you know, at least 2 to 3 years. So the truth of the matter is every time something (inaudible 34:57.3) I give myself a certain period of time where I do the pity party thing, but then after that it is like, alright. I am done. It is now, it is now time to stop crying in my beer and get back up and go at it and jeez man even if -- even if you just are a complete screw up and do not know a damn thing just do process of elimination you will eventually stumble up or something works for you. Jeremy Reeves: Yeah. It is funny. I actually do the exact same thing like whenever something goes bad or you know, I do a client project and it does not you know, turned out as we hoped for the first round or something like that and I just you know, you get that like failure feeling. Oh my God, you know, I am worthless. I am like you know, I sucked in what I do you know, you go through that whole kind of alter ego where you are just like horrible person. I actually set like I will set a deadline so if it happen right now you know, if I got an email or something you know, it is 2:45 right now and if I got an email I would say, okay you know, like I would lock upstairs. I would be (inaudible 36:01.7) my wife would be like, Jeremy what is wrong. I would say nothing. She says something is wrong. What is wrong you know, you go through that thing. And then I would tell her and then I would say, alright, you know, what -- after like an hour you know, because the first like hour or so you just feel like (inaudible 36:14.4) and then like after like an hour it is like alright. I am giving myself a specific timeframe you know. I am allowed to feel like hell for the next whatever it is like the rest of the day or whatever and then you know, you put on your calendar alright, now that is over. Pity party is over. Now it is back to work and we got to figure out what was wrong and how to fix it and how to you know, make sure that mistake never happens again you know. Doberman Dan: Absolutely. You know like, you go back out in the garage and you go ahead and take down the news you put up and like okay, well. Jeremy Reeves: So speaking of like you know, you were saying you kind of after so many failures there is just enough of them that you made that is kind of process of elimination. What were some of the things that you know, you kind of you know, you made all the failures for how many years like a decade or whatever and then you started, I mean you are like fantastically good on what you do and you have some huge successes. So like what was the turning point? What was like the big kind of “Aha Moment” that you had after all the failures? Doberman Dan: I think it was just the process. I do not think I had all the sudden flash of brilliance and thing and the dots connected. It all came from well a couple of things. I mean in spite of really, really bad conditioning, I just knew it just made logical sense if 1 human being can do something then even if I am not as smart as them not as good looking, I do not have any money, I can do the same thing, maybe better. So that kept me going, but you know what it was, it was getting back up after getting knocked down. I mean if you just keep getting up to bat and swing it at that thing with all your might you know, eventually, you are going to get a hit and you know, in some people if I have led people to believe this then I apologize, but you know, some people think after certain number of years who just well you have got it nailed and everything you do is a home run now. It is still like 8 out of every 10 swings at that ball is a complete strike out you know. It is just that continuing to get up to bat to go through the numbers you got to go through to get to the homerun or you know heck. You can make a really great career out of base hits. Jeremy Reeves: Yeah. Lot of people do. Yeah. It is actually funny because the playoffs you know on right now. I always watch the -- my wife loves the Red Sox so I always watch whenever they are in the playoffs. So I always watch it with her and they just lost actually and you know, David Ortiz retired and you know, Big Puppy. And he was you know, one of the best players they have had in a long, long time and you know, his average was I do not know what it is exactly, but it was roughly you know, .3 which means that guess what. He went up to bat 10 times, he only got on base 3 out of 10 and he was like one of the most famous baseball players right now you know what I mean. He is like an absolute rockstar for 3 out of 10 and you know, it’s -- that is I think how most entrepreneurs are. And there are a lot of ways I think to increase that like if you know, if you already have a big influence in your industry and you are launching a new product that you have done surveys, you have done all the research to figure out that they definitely want it that kind of thing like you are going to improve your chances, but you know, when you are coming out a new stuff, I mean it is you know, like I was telling the client the other day. You know, I was kind of talking to them about it and I said you know, if every entrepreneur hit not even a homerun but -- even minimally successful with everything they did, everybody in the world would be an entrepreneur you know what I mean. Like the only -- like you have to be an entrepreneur if you are willing to get punch in the face and then you know, kicked a couple of times while you are down and then stand back up and then have like 3 more people punch you in the face you know and then have a truck run over you while you are on the ground and go through that you know for years and then be able to stand up on your own you know. I think that it is just -- Doberman Dan: That is a good analogy because that is how I feel sometimes. Jeremy Reeves: It does. Like you said, even now you know, even people who are successful. I think it is something that a lot of people do not share is like a lot of people are not vulnerable enough and you know, but we all go through it you know, I do. You do. Every successful person does. Dan Kennedy you know, I am sure he has been doing it for you know, like 400 years now you know, like we said before, he is one of the most you know, well-known marketers that is probably ever lived and I am sure he still has a ton of promotions that bomb you know what I mean. Doberman Dan: He does. Jeremy Reeves: And you just you know, you go back to the drawing board and you find out why it failed and then you redo it and then you find out why the second one failed and then you know, you redo it and then you just keep doing that until it wins you know. It is kind of the name of the game. Doberman Dan: It is the name of the game. I think too many people who give up too soon you know, the problem is do not compare your backstage to somebody else’s frontstage. So in our -- we got a weird world that we live in Jeremy. This internet marketing world -- right now I guess this would be considered my frontstage okay. I am on an interview and you know we are talking about my experience and my successes and stuff and I used to go to these interviews and I would think (inaudible 42:08.0) I mean this guy is making a billion dollars a minute with everything he does you know. I can barely pay my bills and well you know, there we go. That is comparing your backstage with the person’s frontstage. When you are seeing somebody on stage in situations like this and they are talking about their successes most are not going to mention all the stuff that just went horribly wrong and it was bad because it is still I mean you never -- sorry if I am discouraging anyone, you never reach a point where it is just like -- Oh I am now successful, it will be smooth sailing from here. Now, as long as you are building something it is going to be like for every 7, 8, 9 times up to bat it strikeout or for every 100 times off the bat 99 times are strikeout you know, 100 times of base hit you know, it’s good base hit. You get (inaudible 43:07.8) but that is just the real world man. So do not feel bad if you are in the middle of that. That is like perfectly normal. You are right on track just -- if you have been feeling bad it is probably because you are comparing you backstage to some other (inaudible 43:24.0) frontstage. Jeremy Reeves: Yeah and I can tell your Dan Sullivan’s fan with the frontstage and backstage. I know exactly what you are talking about. And actually another thing that he talks about before we wrap here -- another thing he talks about is the gap you know. I do not know if you are familiar with that concept, but basically, you know, when you are like when you look at yourself and you are actually doing pretty good you know. You are making a decent income. You are hitting some you know, successes. You know, you are chugging along and you are looking at all your competitors and everyone else who is doing better than you and you are making yourself feel like hell. First of all, I mean that is normal, it is human nature. We are always going to compare ourselves to others you know. You are going to feel better if you do not do that, but it is a lot easier said than done. I even find myself doing that sometimes you know. I can -- I have kind of train myself to catch it so it does not happen very long. It is kind of like a couple minute kind of thing anymore, but if you just change the frame of it and rather than comparing yourself to what you want to be right. Like comparing like you are the middle here and there is the past behind you and there is a future in front. Rather than comparing yourself to where you want to be so like say you are making $100,000 a year now you want to make a million right, huge gap in between there. Compare yourself to what you used to be you know like you, you know. Compare yourself to like when you are going through you know, some of the bad times. Compare yourself to the worse times when you were you know, broke and living in the car and right now like if you compare it to your past it is going to -- you are going to feel like royalty even in your worst spot you know, rather than comparing to you know, where everyone else is and there is just that huge gap between that and it makes you feel horrible you know. And then you know, it kills your creativity. You cannot focus. Like you just -- you kind of get in that like depressive state and it is hard to climb out of that you know. So it is just about shifting your focus I think. Doberman Dan: Yeah. It goes back to mindset too. The gap in the (inaudible 45:33.5) was a huge epiphany for me that you know. Anybody that is profession is tendencies like I do which by the way is just that is not noble. Being (inaudible 45:46.2) is not noble. It is a form of self hate and it is just pure torture. I mean you would not tweak your worst enemy like that, but anyway, those of us who have been cursed for whatever reason with the profession as tendencies are always looking at the gap and again comparing our backstage to somebody’s frontstage and look at the gap like, oh man I wanted to make (inaudible 46:12.2) much money. I wanted this size of business and I am only here. Man you are really beating yourself up. Why don’t you turn around every now and then and look where you are now from where you came from and that might be a huge revelation to you. Jeremy Reeves: Yeah. Absolutely. Well said. Well hey. I know we got -- we both going to hop off here in a minute here, but you know, before we jump off. Two things. Number 1, if there is anything that you know, you got on this podcast and you kind of had in your mind that you have some kind of big insight that you wanted people to know. Let everyone know before you know, before we wrap up if I forgot to ask you question or there is just something that is like burning inside you that you just kind of what everybody to know. If you have anything like that and then secondly, tell everyone where they can you know, hear more about you and kind of get onto your list and just you know, listen to your shenanigans and help them grow their business and all that kind of fun stuff. Doberman Dan: Well thanks for the opportunity to do both those things. It is kind of funny Jeremy. Initially, I had the intention that I was going to talk about some recent revelations breakthroughs that I have had in -- as far as marketing goes, but it was all mechanics stuff you know. It was like this type of funnel and marketing versus this type. I kind of -- not kind of. I mean I had it on my head to talk about that, but you took it in a direction --You are a good interviewer man. You took it into the direction that I was not prepared for, but I believe you know, based on 30 years experience now as a serial entrepreneur, it was something way more important than the mechanics. I was initially going to talk about it. So I would say now that if I am going to leave somebody with something I would say this. You are not broken. You are as good or better than anybody else. If anybody has done (inaudible 48:19.8) like if you think what I have done is pretty cool. Oh trust me. My dear listener. This is nothing that you cannot do. I can with 100% -- I would bet every penny I have that you can do it and I think Jeremy is the one who dug up the key to making that happen. This interview today, you have dug up the key to making that happened and that is just to continue to get up time after time no matter hard they knocked you down. You just continue to get up. Jeremy Reeves: Yeah. Absolutely you know. One thing I would like to add to that is do not look at this you know, because I think what we covered today and I know like we you know, have the conversation before we started and we were going to talk about like totally different stuff, but you know, and that is why I do interviews like this. That is why I do not script questions because a lot of times you just get on the path and it is just the right path you know. I think this is way more valuable than if we talk about like oh you know, what is the last 3 split test that won for you and you know. What is the -- how do you write better headlines or whatever. The one thing that I kind of wanted just to expand on is do not look at everything especially the gap I would say. Do not look at everything just in terms of business. Apply it to all of your life right. Apply to it your health. Apply it to your relationships with your wife or your husband. Apply it to how your parenting you know. Apply it to if you are spiritual you know, your spiritual practice or your religious practice whatever you are into you know. Look at how -- because we all you know, we all want to grow especially entrepreneurs you know, we all have like you said before. We all have that drive to get better you know, that is what makes us entrepreneurs. So get better you know and get better without guilt you know, God, that is a good headline you know. Doberman Dan: I am going to totally swipe (inaudible 50:19.7). Jeremy Reeves: But honestly because you know, we all feel guilty if we have not hit our goals in the timeframe that we want to hit them in right. So rather than doing that you know, look at your life and say well where was I before you know and how much progress have I made in my health, in my relationships, in my whatever my slip, my revenue, my parenting you know, whatever it is. Look at that and it just puts you on such a better mind frame you know and I have got to train my wife even like when I get in mood like this because you know, I am like you, I am kind of perfectionist not really in terms of -- I kind of (inaudible 50:55.5) in certain things like in results you know what I mean. And she can tell like instantly when something bad happened and I am in one of those moods and I have kind of like trained her to say like alright well you know, what happened before this. Where were you before you know. Are you better than you were then and you know, the answer is almost always yes because it is just constant improvement you know in all the areas in my life you know. I think if everybody looks at their life in those you know, in that frame it just makes you a lot happier and being happier and being more creative and just like kind of mentally you know free I guess makes you therefore a better entrepreneur, a better husband, a better father, a better I do not know maybe not health, but although actually yeah because you know, your mood affects what you eat a lot you know. That is kind of the final thing I would like to add in there. So before we head off. Where can everybody learn more about you? Doberman Dan: Well the best place to get into my world is my website, at dobermandan.com and if anybody wants to they can -- I have been publishing a print newsletter delivered the way God intended newsletters to be delivered and paid for an ink. Why I get old fashion postal mail. So for 6 years I have been publishing that. It is a paid newsletter, but I will give people a free PDF version in one of my newsletters at dobermandan.com and I also have a podcast called Off The Chain With Doberman Dan that you can find on iTunes and I would just be thrilled if you show up occasionally and listen to me running my mouth on my podcast. Jeremy Reeves: Sounds good and you know, like always, those links will be in the show notes. So do not even you know, you do not even have to try to remember it, just click the link on the show notes and you will go right there and yeah. Well, hey man, it was a pleasure not only catching up, but being able to share our conversation with everybody else. It is a -- I think that is one of the things I love about being able to you know, interview people is that you know, you can learn from some amazing people and you know, improve your own skills, why you are helping everybody else you know. I think it is kind of an awesome. Doberman Dan: Well thanks for the invitation. I had fun Jeremy. I appreciate it. Jeremy Reeves: Yeah. Sounds good. We will talk to you soon and thanks again. Doberman Dan: Thank you.

In today's episode, we cover a few concerns people have about High Ticket Freedom Formula and why you should get started today before the promotion expires. It expires TONIGHT, Monday November 21st at midnight EST. Get more info at http://www.jeremyreeves.com/gethtff

In today's episode I cover some of the biggest questions I've been receiving about my upcoming training workshop, the product itself, and webinars in general. Be sure to register for this Friday's webinar (with LIVE Q&A) at http://www.jeremyreeves.com/htff-webinar

Today is day #1 of a week FILLED with talk about webinars! Today we talk about why webinars are so badass, who should be using them, and a few super ninja tricks you can use to get better results. I also announce my brand-new training workshop, showing you how to use webinars to sell high ticket products/services. It's this Friday at 1 p.m. EST. The link to join is http://www.jeremyreeves.com/htff-webinar

In this episode, I chat with Brian Scudamore. Brian is the founder of O2E Brands, the banner company for 1-800-GOT-JUNK?, WOW 1 DAY PAINTING, You Move Me, and Shack Shine. We’ll discuss how he built a $250 million dollar empire, the challenges and struggles he faced doing it, and put his 9-figure insights to work for your business regardless of where you are now!   Resources Mentioned Linkedin O2Ebrands.com Transcript Jeremy Reeves: Hey everyone. Jeremy Reeves here, back with another episode of The Sales Funnel Mastery podcast. And today, I have on the line, Brian Scudamore and you may or may not recognize his name, you probably recognize his trucks that are probably driving all around your town. He owns 1-800-GOT-JUNK? along with WOW 1 DAY PAINTING, You Move Me, and Shack Shine. Brian obviously, as you can tell is a serial entrepreneur. He has been doing this -- Brian (inaudible 0:44.6) the exact year, but I know 1-800-GOT-JUNK? is roughly 150-million dollar company. It has been around since I think the 80s and now he is kind of just conquering the entire you know, home service market which is kind of awesome. I want to give in to your story of why you chose that market you know, he has made appearances on ABC Nightline, Good Morning America, Dr. Phil, CNN, The Today Show, Oprah, and CNBC. He has been featured in Fortune Magazine, The New York Times, Huffington Post, Wall Street Journal and the list can basically go on and on and on for about the next half hour about your background, every amazing thing that you have done, but instead of doing that, Brian, first of all, welcome to the show and let everybody know you know, go a little bit deeper into your story and to your background, so people can kind of get to know you a little better. Brian Scudamore: Yeah. Thanks for having me Jeremy and I always enjoy talking to an audience about their entrepreneurs and people that are interested in the startup world. We have done this now since 1989. We are about $250 million business (inaudible 1:49.0) 250 this year and O2E Brands is the parent company which stands for Ordinary to exceptional, O2E Brands. We have got 4 companies now from junk removal all the way to windows, gutters, power washing under the Shack Shine brand so we are having fun and growing the entrepreneurial world through different home service brands. Jeremy Reeves: Nice. I love it. Before we get into all of the business stuff, I always like to start off and ask a couple -- kind of get to know you questions, right. So the first one is what is the worst habit that you have ever had and how did you get rid of it? Brian Scudamore: Oh, interesting. I think the worse habit is probably not being as good of a listener as I can be. I am a big believer in a philosophy of “Leaders Eat Last” and that a leader needs to listen to other people, share their opinions before they speak. So while I say it is a bad habit that I used to have. I think I am still working on it and getting better, but I tried to have my team speak up and share their thoughts because they are the brilliant ones with all the answers and how am I to really formulate, visionary thinking if I cannot get other people’s ideas are. So a little more time listening. Jeremy Reeves: Yeah, yeah. I love that. I love that. And I think that is something that a lot of people could use some you know, some work on it including myself you know. Okay, second one you know, I am sure you have a bucket list. I am sure you have crossed a lot of things off, you still have a lot of things to cross off. If you had time to only cross off one more thing in your bucket list, which one would that be? Brian Scudamore: Well, it is interesting. So I was actually just looking at what we call our 101 Life Goals list and I have got you know, 101 things on there from giving over a win free a day hug which I got to do, to do in a safari in Africa, a hot air balloon which I got to do. The one that I would keep -- if I can only check one off is to live to be at least 101 years old. So that way, that would allow me to still accomplish all the other things on the list. Jeremy Reeves: Oh I like it. You are doing the genie cheating approach. I like that. Brian Scudamore: Being strategic. Jeremy Reeves: Yeah, I like that. Alright, next one is, if you could change one thing about your life instantly. If you could just you know, actually you know, a genie in the bottle you know, if you could rub the bottle and something in your life change instantly, what would that be? Brian Scudamore: Nothing. Jeremy Reeves: Nice. I like that answer. I like that. Beautiful. Okay, next one. What is your favorite drink? Could be alcoholic or nonalcoholic or you know, what is your favorite drink? Brian Scudamore: Yeah, I love my red wine. I am not a big fancy wine sommelier type but I definitely enjoy red wine and just a glass with friends or family. Jeremy Reeves: Nice, okay. And the last one is if you had to choose a spirit animal, what would it be? Brian Scudamore: If I had to choose a spirit animal? Jeremy Reeves: Yeah. First thing it pops in your head. Brian Scudamore: I have to ask you what that is. What do you mean by spirit animal? Jeremy Reeves: Yeah, yeah. So basically, if there was -- and first thing that pops in your head you know, if there is an animal that describes you, what would that be? Brian Scudamore: My favorite animal is an elephant. I used to think that there are smart. They are big. They stand out. They you know, pioneer roads through you know, trees. Jeremy Reeves: Nice. And it is actually funny, I was just watching the jungle book with my 2 sons the other day and my wife and in that -- I do not know if you remember seeing that from when you are younger when it came out. They just redid it and in that, the elephants are actually like the gods of the forest you know. They are the ones that are paving all the -- you know, they are putting in the dance, they are moving everything you know, so it is actually interesting, it is pretty good. I like it. Brian Scudamore: (inaudible 5:42.7) they did a great, a great new version of that movie. The special effects just blew my mind -- Jeremy Reeves: Yeah, I know. It was, oh my God, the animals are so real. It is incredible. I like it. So alright, so now that we kind of got to know you more as a person you know, let us kind of shift into the you know, the businessman Brian, alright. So first of all, you know, when you first started 1-800-GOT-JUNK? That is your, you know, that is kind of what started everything. That is what really put you in the map. Why was that you know, what was like the reasoning behind it? Brian Scudamore: Yeah, it was simple. I was in the McDonald’s drive-through in Vancouver. I was trying to think of ways to pay for college. I was 1 course short of graduation from high school and I (inaudible 6:27.4) my way to college, but I have to find the funds to pay for it. So I had a need for a job and there I was, McDonald’s drive-through (inaudible 6:34.8) pick-up truck filled with junk. That was the Aha moment. I went and bought a truck on my own for $700 and started hauling junk. A week later and the rest is history. What motivated me or inspired me to pay for college also got me to drop out. I had 1 year left in my diploma so to speak in business school, but I was learning much more about business running the business and I made the bold decision to drop out. My father who is a liver transplant surgeon who thought I was absolutely out of my tree, but we golf the other weekend and you know, he is proud of me and I am proud of him, it all worked out. Jeremy Reeves: Yeah, yeah, definitely you did. I mean going to 250 million is not an easy task you know. So in the beginning days you know, what where some of the things that really kind of move the needle for you so to speak you know. Was there any, was it the message, was it that the actual service was unique you know, I am pretty sure you were -- you were the first one really to bring that you know, that service to the marketplace you know, what do you think really you know, kind of put you in the map? Brian Scudamore: Yeah, what is interesting, I was not the first one to bring it to the market, not even close. There were thousands of junk removal companies that were just like me one-truck owner/operator hauling junk in any city across North America, but I was the first to do is bring the market together and say let us create a professional FedEx-like brand. Clean and shiny trucks, friendly uniformed drivers, exceptional level of service brought to an ordinary industry. And I started the and scale the business from Vancouver to Seattle to Toronto and today we are in every major market in North America and Australia with 1-800-GOT-JUNK?. Jeremy Reeves: That is awesome. I actually did not know that. I thought you guys were actually -- I thought you pioneered that whole industry, but -- Brian Scudamore: You know, we did it at a bigger scale than anyone else, but people have been picking up junks since you know, since the world started right. People have stuff to get rid out of it and you know, 1 day (inaudible 8:46.0) buggy-type model and you know, we just professionalized the very fragmented industry, the same way that Starbucks professionalized and created a brand in a mop-and-pop coffee shop world. We have got on to do it in the junk removal space and of course now you know, our real vision and inspiration is how do we do it in other arenas? How do we take an ordinary business and make it exceptional like O2E Brands our name says, we are doing it with windows, gutters, power washing, and the house detailing space with our newest brand, Shack Shine. So we have got 4 companies that are doing this in fragmented home service markets. Jeremy Reeves: Okay. So is that kind of like your, you know, your kind of go-to strategies, looking for services that you know, that are kind of providing like the basic level service you know, they are really not, they are in it almost like transactionally rather than actually trying to given an experience to the you know, to the consumer that is buying it? Is that kind of like your, you know, your MO so to speak? Brian Scudamore: That is pretty much it you know, it is working for us. We have got 4 brands. We are -- I would not say taking over the world, but trying to do it at least in North America and stay in focus and we do see that by 2021, we will be a billion dollar globally admired brand with 10 brands across the continent. Jeremy Reeves: Congratulations in advance for hitting the 1 billion dollar market. Brian Scudamore: Thank you. Thank you. I know it will happen and you know, money is not -- it is not about the money. It is about the billions of measurement for us, where we would say, hey look at this scale and significance of what we have created. Think of the thousands of people that had to be a part of building these brands and our ability to build leaders and help change the world one entrepreneur at a time, it is pretty exciting stuff. Jeremy Reeves: Nice, okay. Was there a point you know, on your way, kind of building the business. I am sure you have had you know, probably I cannot even count how many stumbling blocks and you know, road blocks and obstacles. What were some of like the biggest things that you had, the things that were you know, maybe you had or maybe you did not, but you know, if there were any, what were some of the times when you were going and you were going and you were going and then something just you know, a huge obstacle in your way that you thought that you would not be able to break through it and then -- how did you, you know, break through that? Brian Scudamore: Yeah. Five years into business. In 1994 I fired my entire company. I have 11 people, 1 bad apple spoils the whole bunch and I had 9 bad apples out of my 11 -- team of 11 and I (inaudible 11:21.5) you know what I got to get rid of everybody. This is not working for me. I am sure it was not working for them and I took responsibility as the leader and sat them all down in the room together and said I just screwed up. I did not hire the right people, train you, and give you the love and support that you need it and sorry team, but this is not working out. We are going to part ways and that day or the next day, a lot of pain going what am I going to do here. I am like going to rebuild my business. I got one truck rather that I can drive at the time. I cannot drive my (inaudible 11:51.4) and you know these employees and it was a difficult road in building things back, but what it taught me was learn from the lesson of -- I have made the mistake bringing on the wrong people. How am I going to ensure I always have the right people. And you know even when someone comes to our head office today it is called the “Junction.” They see a big sign. The first thing they see is a big sign that says, “It is all about people.” And that is our commitment to everyone that comes into that door. Find the right people. Treat them right. It is a special place, but we have worked hard to keep that. Jeremy Reeves: Yeah and you know, I would like to get your thoughts on this you know, because a lot of people when they are hiring, it is about, oh well you know, we are going to pay X amount of dollars and kind of looking for whoever takes that you know what I mean, rather than saying hey, you know what, who is the best person that we can find you know. What are your thoughts on kind of paying employees and you know, your hiring process like who you are looking for. What types of qualities they have and that sort of thing like in terms of hiring the right person versus just hiring someone to fill the role? Brian Scudamore: Yeah. We are slow to hire quick to fire. We really take our time in selecting the right people. And we involved the potential employees in the process to make sure that they feel it is a mutual fit. So when we put someone through the interview process here we called it the beer and barbeque test. I read an article about it on Forbes and what the beer and barbeque test is (inaudible 13:22.1) every person that is interviewing someone to ask themselves could they see themselves having a beer with this person? Do they like them? Are they interesting? Are they interested? Do they have the passion in life. And what we do with the people we interview is we just make sure there is a good strong connection because culture is everything. And then we asked people to say okay let us put them through the barbeque test. Could you see them in a company barbeque? Could you see them interacting, having fun, having a drink, having a (inaudible 13:49.7). Are they people that you know would take the business seriously but not themselves or not take themselves too seriously? We like to work hard and play hard and have fun. So when we interview people, it is often 8, 9, 10 interviews that they will go through, but you know, at the end of the process, both sides are pretty certain that it will be a sure thing. Now nothing is a sure thing, but you have a pretty good track record to bring in the right people on board. Jeremy Reeves: Okay. And are there any certain qualities that you look for you know, in terms of you know, I guess you know, skill level or do you focus more on -- I guess more of a question is, do you focus more on the skill or the person? Brian Scudamore: We still focus more on the value. So we hire around attitude, train on skill now before hiring a CFO as we just did recently you better hope that person has their papers (inaudible 14:40.6) but we hire first on attitude and what that means for us is we look at their values. Our values as a company, the abbreviation is what we called “PIPE.” Passion, Integrity, Professionalism, and Empathy. Do they have passion for life and for their career? Do they have the integrity, the professionalism in everything they do? The empathy that hey, cut yourself and other slack when you make mistakes, be willing to learn from mistakes. So our values (inaudible 15:10.6) is used as a filter if you will for really helping to screen and find the right people based on who they are as a people much more than their skill level. Jeremy Reeves: Okay, yeah and you know what, I am starting to hear that from more and more and more people you know, as I kind of grow my own business you know, and hiring people and that sort of thing is more -- what you said, you know, hire on -- hire basically on value and train on like the skills you know what I mean. And I think that is a big distinction because I think most people when they are hiring people it is like okay, we need somebody who can do A, B, and C versus we need someone who has the values of A, B, and C and can also do A, B, and C you know. I think that is a big -- I think that is a big shift. Now when you first started like when in the process did you I guess come into that realization you know, did you always hire based on values or in the beginning was it more of skill based and then you kind of learned over the years that it was -- there is a bigger impact you know, kind of per employee based on the -- hiring based on values. Brian Scudamore: Well, earlier on, as I told you, the first 5 years when I hired all the wrong people, that was me just thinking you know, someone applies. Do they seemed like they can do the job and we made the decision right on the spot. So putting process in place came from understanding that you cannot just hire anyone. You need to be selective. You do not just go to a party and go hey, you want to be my friend you know, you find your friends through time organically and you are selective because everybody is so busy that you cannot just be friends with everybody and spend time with everyone. So we do that same thing with employees. We take our time. We made sure it is a good mutual match and when it is, it is magic. Jeremy Reeves: Okay, nice. And how do you go about you know, when people are in the company, when your -- you know, because people grow you know, they grow personally and they get getter at their jobs, they get better at kind of being of employed in your organization. How do you go about kind of moving them up the ranks you know, do you keep them? Is there -- do they kind of stay like in a certain bubble if you will or do you kind of you know, do you allow people to kind of rise to the top or you know, how do you go about moving people up in the ladder? Brian Scudamore: We pay attention to developing our people as a part of who we are (inaudible 17:34.6) to be brand. We have what we call the leadership way. We have our way of developing people the leadership traits that really matter that we spend time on, and so a lot of our meetings are focused on leadership development. We do a lot of internal training because we know it is cheaper, much more effective, and a better process if we can find people internally and grow them from within. It is hard to find the right people and when you got someone inside your organization who has all values, the energy, the enthusiasm, they kept the vision of the company and they just need to be trained up makes way more sense to do that than to go to the outside hire some recruiters and go through a big lengthy process to find someone that you just do not know what you are getting. So leadership development you know, Nike one said, I think they are famous for saying that they are marketing company that just happens to sell shoes, we are a leadership company that just happens to remove (inaudible 18:32.8) to keep people’s homes move their boxes you know, that sort of thing and so leadership is really, really at the core of everything we do. Jeremy Reeves: Okay, I like that. Yeah and it reminds me you know, kind of you know, hiring from within and moving them up the ranks versus looking from the outside, you know, outside perspective. It is kind of the same thing as you know, a lot of people spend too much time focused on bringing in new customers what if they just focused under existing customers you know, it is -- you kind of get them back into your business. They are worth more -- you know, cost less to kind of re-acquire you know, for a second purchase that sort of thing. So when it comes to you know, let us jump into marketing a little bit you know, because obviously, you know, you cannot really grow to 250 without you know, knowing what you are doing and having a big idea that moves people you know, so what are some of the things that you have done for marketing that really worked for you and this could be early on in the days where I am imagining it was a lot more you know, a lot more hustle, a lot more kind of you know guerilla marketing if you will versus now where you know, you have a lot more momentum you know, you can go on a lot bigger like you know, like you have been on ABC and Good Morning America, Dr. Phil, Oprah, you know, those kinds of things where it is more mass exposure, but you know, along the way, what were some of the big marketing breakthroughs that you guys had? Brian Scudamore: (inaudible 19:52.4) leader marketing goal has pretty much always been about hustle whether it is knocking on doors of potential customers, knocking on doors of media outlets and trying to tell them a great story. ABC, Oprah, all those things, Dateline, Nightline, (inaudible 20:08.1) those are things that came to us from working it, from really getting out there and pounding the pavement and so even today (inaudible 20:15.6) being a bigger company, quarter of a billion, we are still all about the hustle. Our franchise partners are doing guerilla marketing locally making sure their vehicles or parts (inaudible 20:24.5) high profile visible billboards that generate business. And then you know, the one thing that might be different today versus the earlier years is we can afford to do some mass advertising that we could not afford in the earlier days. So 1-800-GOT-JUNK? is an example. We have got $8 million a year radio budget. That is a lot of radio and you know, it works well for us, but you got to build a business to grow it to the size where you are able to make those things happen and we feel fortunate that we you know, reached that level. Jeremy Reeves: Yeah, sure, okay. You know, what were some of the things like you know, I think you have it down now, but you know, earlier on with your messaging you know, because a lot of times it takes people a little bit tweaking here and there you know, to really narrow down their messaging you know, the whole like message to mark a match making sure that what you are saying is what your customers want. Did you have any problem with that or is it you know, when you brought it to the market, did it just click with people? Brian Scudamore: I think something we have learned is do not tweak too often or too much. So the phone number 1-800-GOT-JUNK?, the colors, the look and the feel, we stuck with it and just settle, let us be consistent even with Shack Shine. We got to a point where we said okay, we are new business here. We got to figure some things out, but let us just figure out the core messages. We call the industry house detailing because just like you detail your car, you should detail your house, wash it, power wash it, do the windows. So we came up with house detailing. We came up with the brand (inaudible 21:58.2) Shack Shine but it is keeping it simple and not tweaking too much. I think too many companies constantly change their message, their look, their brand and it confuses people and I think the consistency is something incredibly, incredibly powerful. You look at Uber, I mean, Uber keeps changing their logo, I do not get it. They have got a big company, a big brand why mess with something and it happens all the time in businesses and I do not think it is the smartest move to be making. Jeremy Reeves: Yeah, you know what, I think there is something to be said there because you know, when you are changing on your message, it almost makes the market feel like you are not sure what you are doing or what your vision is for the company you know what I mean. I think that makes a lot of sense. Brian Scudamore: Yeah. You are sending a message that you are not confident, that you are not clear, that you do not really believe in what you are doing and you are absolutely right, it is important stuff. Jeremy Reeves: Yeah, okay. And one final kind of big question that I am -- I am kind of interested in it because I am always -- I am always interested in how people you know, basically what their vision of the future is. So you are at $250 million now, right, and you (inaudible 23:07.2) started 0, got all the way up to $250 million, I am sure there were some you know, some kind of changes in your strategy and your vision along those you know, ways that you have to adjust and kind of keep building. You mentioned before that your -- the next like huge goal is a billion. What is your -- what is your visionary plan or strategy for hitting a billion? Brian Scudamore: Yeah, a lot of things. Our strategy for getting to a billion is really amassing these great brands in home service spaces. So 1-800-GOT-JUNK?, You Move Me our moving brand, WOW 1 DAY PAINTING our painting brand, Shack Shine our house detailing brand. There are 6 more brands to go and I do not know what those will be at. They will probably be in the home service spaces. And it is taking something ordinary could be carpet cleaning, could be lawn mowing, who knows and making those ordinary businesses exceptional through customer experience. It is finding the right people and training them right and then really having a clear vision of what the future looks like for that brand so that people have a road map or a destination that they are working towards and you put all those pieces together, vision, people, systems, great branding, and it is a lot of hard work building a business but one of the things I love about O2E Brands is that I think we give people a platform or a springboard of which to grow something much quicker together versus people going out and building them alone and it has been a lot of fun and will continue to be fun. So our strategy is stay focus. Stay consistent and finding great, great people. Jeremy Reeves: That is awesome. I love it. Well, hey I have learned a lot you know, from you, you know, today. A lot of what I deal with this more of you know, people like the 7 maybe 8 figures and it is cool talking to somebody who is taking it beyond that and gone to not only 9 figures but multiple 9 figures you know, now you are trying for 10 which is awesome. I am excited for you to get there. When I eventually -- I will see it, I will read it somewhere and see that you hit a billion. I will celebrate for you. Brian Scudamore: Awesome. Thanks Jeremy. These overnight success story sure take a long time, but as I said, we keep it focused, we have fun. We are getting there. Jeremy Reeves: Sure, yeah. And you know before we hop off, let everyone know where they can find out more about you, connect with you, or you know, anything else that you would like them to do? Brian Scudamore: Yeah. If anybody wants to get in touch I am on Linkedin, O2Ebrands.com is the best way to find some of the articles we have written, some of the media attention, videos about the culture of the company, and if anyone has a desire to learn more about vision I am always happy to share our painted picture, how we created our vision and what our future looks like and they can just simply email me, brian.scudamore@O2Ebrands.com. Jeremy Reeves: Sounds good. Well, hey, it was a pleasure talking to you and thanks again for coming on. Brian Scudamore: Yeah, thanks Jeremy and all the best to you. Jeremy Reeves: You too. Brian Scudamore: Okay. Take care. Jeremy Reeves: Bye.

In this episode, we switch things up and talk about a few of the biggest lessons I've learned over the past 6 months for building a bulletproof brain to feel better, become more productive, and become a better thinker - all by taking control of your health! Enjoy ;)   Transcript Hey what is going on guys and girls. This is Jeremy Reeves with another episode of The Sales Funnel Mastery Podcast and I hope you all had a very, very fun Halloween. If you have kids, then you know, hopefully you took them trick or treating, well maybe not until like 16, that be kind of weird, but if you have young kids I should say or if you you know, did the whole trick or treating thing with people coming to your door, I hope that was fun. We had our boys out last night and it was freezing here in PA. I think it was, probably like below 30s you know, by the time we got home so it was really cold. I am not looking forward to the cold weather, but it is what it is. So today -- actually, I have a really quick update first before we get into it. So the webinar project right, the high-ticket project that I am working on that I have been telling you about over the last couple of weeks is almost done. In fact, the product itself I actually just finished you know, there are some little tweaks and added some stuff here and there, one or two little things that I have to add, things like that, but you know, it is essentially done and one of my things that I am doing today is actually getting it set up in the membership and like kind of getting all that prep and all that and then I have to actually put together a webinar you know, that is going to sell the course on doing webinars, right. So first of all, you know, I am planning on launching that in the next 2 weeks. So November 14th is, hopefully, the starting date. We are going to find out -- I do not like to rush launches. A lot of people -- a lot of my clients -- you know, they will come to me and say, hey I want to launch tomorrow you know. And I do not like doing that. I always like to get myself extra time to really do it properly, to make sure everything is set up right and all that. So as of right now I am planning on launching that course on November 14th and I am really excited. It is going to be freaking awesome. Everybody I have shown into so far is like, oh my God, this like a total game changer. It is like completely -- unlike anything else it is out there right now. So I am really, really excited about that and I will tell you why it is so awesome as we kind of come closer to it right. So if you are in the market for doing something high ticket. If you have anything high ticket, I would highly suggest not getting anything else until I launched that course because I am telling you right now it is going to be absolutely just completely game changing for you. If you have a webinar and it is not converting well or if you want to put together a webinar and it is just been a giant pain in the ass hint.. hint.. it is going to be perfect for you hint.. hint.. and yeah so that is it. So today, I want to go -- I want to talk about something a little bit off topic right. It is not technically about business, but it is about productivity right and that is health, okay. So I actually just cut down -- I have been -- when it was, let us see -- about the middle in March maybe early April something like that, I was 195 pounds. I was -- I have been fluctuating a lot you know in my life and I think the highest now -- I am only 5’9 by the way, so I am not a tall guy. The highest I have ever been was 205. I think that was when Katie was pregnant with Connor. I kind of did the whole you know, she is pregnant so I am going to eat like she does. Even though you know, the whole pregnancy myth with you know, eating everything is you know, that is also a myth. You really only need like 3 to 500 extra calories a day. But you know, so my wife does not even really eat all that much extra you know, definitely extra, but not like you know, disgusting huge, you know, gross meals every night. But anyway, so in March or April I was 195 pounds and I remember going back like I was -- every single day, I would get really tired in the afternoon. I would get my 2 waves of tiredness so to speak would be between 1 to 2 o’clock and then between 6 to 7 o’clock. So I was getting two different points in the day where I was getting really tired right and I mean like you know, like I am about to pass out tired right. And I have never eaten horribly right. I have always had like a semi-healthy you know, lifestyle. My problem back then was you know, I would drink like high-calorie beers and stuff at night and that kind of thing. My nighttime is really bad you know, I would have a giant bowl of popcorn with butter something like that. So that was one of the big things. But what I have noticed as I have really cleaned up my diet and my exercise program since November so how many months that is, it is like the last 6 or 7 months whatever that is -- is that my productivity has gone way up right. And that is why I want to talk about it today, right. And because a lot of people on this are probably you know, you are probably a little bit overweight or a lot overweight or you are -- maybe even if you are not like you have really good genes and you are not overweight, but you still eat bad, it is still going to drastically affect your mental performance right and as entrepreneurs, that is really, really, really important because if you are not there mentally right, if you do not have a clear sharp mind, you are not going to be able to come up with new creative, innovative, breakthrough ideas, right. You are going to go through your day just kind of like forcing yourself to get it done rather than having the motivation to get everything done rather than having the excitement to get your work done rather than coming and waking up energized and ready to tackle the day, right. So a couple of things that really helped me right. Number one is no breakfast. Huge, huge, huge breakthrough for me was no breakfast, right. And a lot of people are thinking, oh my God I am going to be starving in the morning. Oh my God, oh my God, oh my God. No. You really won’t. Now some people do. It does take a little bit of a period until like kind of get used to it. Now I have never been a huge fan of breakfast, but I have always eaten it just because I thought I was supposed to, just because you know, breakfast you know, “is the most important meal of the day.” It turns out that is absolutely not true. Whoever you heard that from, not that they are lying, but basically, the what happened was -- back in the -- I think it was the 60s. I might be off from the timeline, but 60s give or take a decade or two, the people that started saying that were you know, where do you think I am going to this? The people that came up with that idea guess what they sold? Breakfast food, right. They were marketers. Just like the people that came out seasonal affective disorder. That is not actually a real thing, right. It is just something that has been implanted into like the minds of American citizens you know and then the people that are making these things up are then selling the solution. It is actually a brilliant marketing technique, but when it comes to eating breakfast, it is absolutely not necessary whatsoever. It has nothing to do with your metabolism, right. This has been proven like a thousand times that not having breakfast does nothing to your metabolism at all, right. It actually, it takes like 2 or 3 days of eating nothing for your metabolism to really start dropping a lot. So if you are worried about like your metabolism dropping. It will not happen. I promised you, okay. You can look up the research. I am not going to go through it all right now because I do not have it in front of me, but you know, it is -- basically, there is zero evidence of it reducing metabolism, okay. The second thing is -- oh well, I am going to be like -- I am going to be hungry all morning. When you first do this, right. If you eat breakfast every morning, you are in the habit of eating breakfast and because of that habit, your mind is going -- your body goes through these you know, these habits. So if you wake up and the first thing you do is put food, put calories in your body. Your body is going to expect that. So the first week maybe 2 weeks, you might still a little be - be a little bit hungry. What you can do to stay that off is drink a little bit more coffee right that helps blunt your appetite and also, big thing that I have done is carbonated water or like seltzer water or something, some kind of non-calorie -- please do not drink diet soda, it is gross, except for like a treat once in a while. Something you can put in your body that is carbonated because it fills up your stomach right. That helped me a lot. Now these days, like I am up at 5:30 in the morning. I usually do not eat until 12 to 1 o’clock, right. So I am going like whatever that is like 6-1/2 or 7 hours, I do not really get hungry right and it is because I have trained my body to do that, okay. So the first thing is no breakfast. You are going to instantly drop weight because what happens is, if you have like a 2000 calories you know, if you are eating 2000 calories to say, and you are eating like a 4 or 500 calorie breakfast well now you can put that into like your dinner right. If you have the same lunch no breakfast now you can have a 4 or 500 calorie extra for dinner and still have the same amount of calorie. So you can have such more amazing meals, okay. So it just makes it way, way easier okay. So that has been a huge thing for me. Second thing is, in terms of like mental performance energy that kind of thing, is for your lunches, low carbs okay, because carbs are going to make you tired right. When you get that blood sugar spike, when it comes down right that is when you get really lethargic and that is why I used to get at 1 or 2 o’clock, I would get that you know, that drop right and the same thing (inaudible 10:18.2) because we eat at 5. So like within the next hour to 2 hours, you are going to just you know, hit a rock and if you do not want to do that anymore, try eating lunches with lower carbs okay. Now I am not one of these people like, carbs are not enemy. I eat a lot of carbs you know, today actually, I am eating a giant thing of chicken and rice for lunch and I am eating pasta for dinner, right. Now I am in a bulking stage now actually because I got out in 170s. Now I am going to start putting on some muscle. So I am actually eating a little bit more, but you know, in a normal day, I do not really eat that many carbs for lunch, right, when I am cutting. Now I added them back in because I am bulking and I am also going to do a huge you know, big long workout right before my lunch so that kind of counteracts the carbs, okay. So that is another thing. But in general, if you want a clear sharper you know, faster mind and you do not want to be tired throughout the afternoon, then eat low carbs for lunch and therefore, you are going to get more fats, right. Fats help fuel your brain. They are going to help you again, you know, have a clear sharper mind. So add some more fats. Add some coconut oil. Add some nuts. Add some really good healthy omega-3s, some Fish oil you know, Fish oil supplements are really good for brain function you know. Have a cup of coffee you know depending on how much you drink in the afternoon, I mean in the morning, you do not have too much because you can definitely have too much. I think they recommend about 400 mg a day. So depending on -- you should also look into where you are getting your caffeine. So like a Starbucks coffee, I think has about 400 mg which is like insane. That is called the Robusta bean. You probably want to look for Arabica beans. They have like, it is like a 3rd or a 4th Robusta. So anyway, so eat you know, eat healthy omega-3 fats you know, salmon, nuts, you know, have a steak you know, good grass fed steak even for lunch you know, smaller one probably because a huge (inaudible 12:30.4) get you tired probably. Next thing is, do a little workout. So I started adding in a workout right before lunch because I know that at 1 or 2 o’clock, I am going to get tired and I realized that well, you know, if I do a workout like kind of in that period right before I am going to get tired, then it is going to help kind of reboot myself, right. So I work from you know, I get up at 5:30. I work from about 6 until 11:30 or so and then I do a workout you know, it depends anywhere between 15 minutes to like 45 minutes, depending on what I am doing that day, depending you know, some days I go for a quick fast run. Yesterday, I did sprints. Today, I am doing strength training. Tomorrow, I will probably going to do a circuit training workout. So it is kind of like a mix of you know jump roping and burpees and box jumps and sledge hammer swings and that is where you get a sledge hammer and you hit a tire essentially. And you know, things like that right, kickboxing I put into that. So I do a mix of that type of stuff. So try adding in a workout right. And by the way, with all the stuff adding them one at a time do not let go and change everything that you do, just add it one at a time. And then the next thing is -- another thing that I do with my lunch is I take a greens drink, right. So it is really good to get your body in the alkaline state. If you get into too much of an acidic state, right, and that is from things you know, if you look in like a pH scale that you learned in high school you know, there is the acidic side of things so you know, coke right, not cocaine you know, soda is really acidic; alcohol is really acidic; meats are acidic, you know, basically, anything processed is acidic. And then you have the alkaline state and that is what makes you feel better right, is vegetables are alkaline you know, most healthy foods are alkaline you know, and you could look up kind of tables that show you what is alkaline, what is acidic that kind of thing. So just add in more alkaline. I am not really a big fan of adding only alkaline because you know, this people that only eat alkaline foods they do not realized that your body needs both right, you need both for different things you know, it is kind of like -- a lot of people when they are reducing inflammation, they actually have so many inflammation reducers that they do not have enough inflammation in their body right, because you need a certain amount. Your body is -- it wants to stay in homeostasis. It wants to be balanced right. It needs balance kind of like business plan or kind of like life you know, you need balance. Too much of one thing and you start kind of going off the edge. So just start adding in more alkaline state but with the greens drink, I drink 1 cup of (inaudible 15:29.3) vibrance and it is -- you can get it from Amazon. I think it is like I do not know $40 or $42 something like that for 30-day supply and basically, it is just a little scoop of you know, greens. There is all this like crazy you know, stuff in there (inaudible 15:44.9) you know, cracked wheat and like all this kind of crazy stuff that you would never normally get in your diet and you just put it in the glass and drink it you know, the first couple of times you drink it is going to be gross of course you know, you are drinking a big thing of greens, but then it actually taste like I do not mind the taste at all now. It actually kind of gets you out of that. People that eat a lot of sugar, if they eat something that is not sugary, they think it is disgusting, but it is funny like once you stopped eating a lot of sugar -- I actually do not like sweets that much you know, even you know, coming home from Halloween last night, I only ate like 2 or 3 little candy bars like I am good now. It is because you know, my body does not crave it because I do not really eat it that much. I ate healthy food now and I do not really crave sweets any more you know, except for like a good pie like an apple pie, oh man, I love that. That is my kryptonite, that and peanut butter ripple like the vanilla ice cream with peanut butter on it. Oh man, although that is not really a sweet. That is more of a fatty meal. But anyway, so I do that after lunch, has tons of probiotics in it which are super, super, super healthy. It keeps your gut you know, your gut balance, your gut flora in check which is actually also helps you think better and clear and feel better and that kind of thing. Makes you less tired. And so those are you know, some of the things that I am doing in my life. So to kind of recap, number one, do not eat breakfast. It is going to help you -- first of all, it is going to help you increase productivity because you do not have to be worrying about food right, and also, you just focus better. I focus better when there is no food in my body because my body is not worried about digestion you know, digestion slows you down. So when you do not have food in your body, you can then like your resources can kind of go to your brain you know. You can also try to add in a bulletproof coffee which is basically -- it is essentially coffee if you never heard of it. It is coffee with butter and MCT oil which is all really like it is kind of like brain food you know, because like I said, really, really healthy fats are basically brain food you know, that is what your brain thrives on. So if you eat a higher fat you know, diet then you are going to think better. It is better for (inaudible 18:10.0) than higher carb diet. So that is what I do, like right now, I am doing 40% fat, 30% protein, and 30% carbs you know, and it is because you know, you need a balance again you know, I know me like if I go too low in carbs I feel horrible. If I go too high in carbs and too low in fats, I feel horrible and if I go too low on protein I noticed a significant decreased in my strength right and so I need a balance, not shocking you know. So but I do a little higher fats because more of like the brain power you know, the mental kind of brain power. So do higher fats and so you can try adding bulletproof coffee in. You can try not eating breakfast and that is just going to help you lose weight which is automatically going to help you feel better, you know, because the less fat that you have on you, the less toxins that are in your body because your toxins are held in your fat right. So when you start losing fat, those toxins get released because your body like they kind of infect your body and so the less of them that you have, the better you are going to feel. Next thing is lunches. Eat smaller lunches, bigger dinners right. That has helped me quite a bit. When it comes to lunches you know, again, go for like a lower carb lunch because carbs are going to slow you down. Digestion slows you down, but carbs especially kind of make you tired because they release various chemicals that make you tired. It is actually good eating carbs right before bed because you kind of get into like tired state and then you can fall asleep easier. A lot of people actually will eat like tablespoon of honey at like 9:30 or 10:00 right before they go to bed because it helps their body just kind of calm down and relax and you know, and that kind of thing. So yeah, smaller lunches with higher fat and then also workout you know, so sometime whenever you naturally get tired add in a workout like an hour or so before that, an hour to two hours to say because it is going to kind of reboot you. It is going to recharge you, you know, and if you do it in the middle of the day kind of gives you like a nice you know, again, it kind of just reboots you like you know, I am working from 6 until like 11:30 or so and then I get a workout. So by 11:30, my brain is starting to you know, starting to drop off a little bit. So when I am able to do that workout and get more oxygen flown through my body, get the energy level, get the blood pump in, then I feel better and I kind of get like a second wind for the afternoon, okay. And then, you know, when I am done working around 3 or so, then I can just kind of chill and relax my feeling. So that is another thing. Another thing actually that I have noticed is if you are feeling tired and this is more of a disciplined thing. If you are feeling tired right. If you are feeling just sluggish and tired at you know, 1 or 2 or 3 or you know, whenever you are kind of tired state is, consider taking a nap you know, take a nap somewhere between 15 to 25 minutes. Do not go above half hour because you start shifting into the next phase of sleep. It takes you know, basically up to about half hour where the first stage of sleep essentially REM I think it is where basically your mind like you do not get into a deep -- like there is kind of 2 stages. There is one where your brain kind of recharges right and that is the first one, that is REM sleep. I am pretty sure it is REM sleep. Basically the connections that you have made. They all get like sorted out right, essentially and you just get like a quick little boost right, whereas if you get into, if you start going into the deeper sleep that is when it repairs your tissues and your muscles and like it does that like deep tissue repair process. You do not want to get into that throughout the day, that is for nighttime because your body essentially is working so hard. It essentially like shuts your brain down so that it can have the energy and the resources to be able to repair your body, okay. So think of it that way, like short is just kind of brain boost you know, brain recharge and longer is like a deep tissue repair, okay, and you only want to stay in that first one and that is like within a half hour or so you know, that is why a lot of people they wake up from nap (inaudible 22:36.4) okay, while if you take a nap and it is only you know, 20 or 25 minutes you are not going to fall into that state you know and a lot of times like I will wake up and I cannot even think I am so tired -- not really anymore I have been taking a lot of nap in a very long time because of all these things and I do not really get tired in the afternoon anymore, but when I used to do this you know, I would take a nap and like 20 minutes and I will be you know, jumping, roaring, and ready to go. So try that you know, add that into your thing on the days where you just, you know, you cannot think of anything because otherwise, you just kind of sit there and stare at the computer and that is obviously not productive. So you might as well go and take 20 minutes, take a quick little nap and then come back and you know, be ready to hit it again. I would say the final thing is make sure you are getting good quality sleep you know. Make sure you are going to bed at decent time and make sure that your -- and this is one that I still struggle with. Make sure that your you know, you are not watching TV or playing games or things like that on your phone right before bed you know, you should essentially be trying to stay away from blue light for about you know, 2 hours before you are going to bed you know, and I again, this is one I still struggle with because I still you know, I like to watch TV you know, God forbid an entrepreneur watches TV, you need to be at work all the time, oh my God, oh my God. No, I have a couple of TV shows that I really loved you know, I am watching The Walking Dead now, the Blacklist. I cannot wait for stranger things to come back in July, it is one of my favorite shows ever. If you have not seen Stranger Things it is on Netflix, you absolutely need to watch it. It is freaking ridiculous. But you know, so there is a couple of shows you know, I think Game of Thrones is going to be starting soon. So anyway, so those are a couple of my tips that I have used not only to lose a lot of weight in the last whatever 6 or 7 months, but also just to feel better. I mean my energy levels are so much higher now than they used to be and I just feel better. I am stronger you know, it is just -- I think way, way better than I used to because my brain has the you know, the nutrients and needs to be able to you know, make the connections. So anyway, I hope that helps you. I know it was a little bit off topic you know, it is not really about business, but it is extremely important because if your mind does not clear, if you are tired, if you are sluggish, then you are not going to be able to think properly. You are not going to be able to think clearly and you know, you are not going to -- those breakthrough ideas are not going to happen for you. So I hoped you enjoyed this. Let me know if you like topics like this that are not you know, 100% business related but they still have to do with business because they you know, directly affect your brain you know. Brain health is one area that I am really getting into now and I am trying out a couple of (inaudible 25:35.2) and you know, essentially brain pills like that. I am going to start adding in bulletproof coffee, I was never a huge fan, but I want to kind of retry it just to see how it works with my you know, with my brain and I had some stomach issues when I tried the last time. So I am going to try it again. But anyway, so that is it. Again, the webinar product is coming out either the next 2 weeks or 3 weeks. If it is not the 14th, it is going to be the 21st that I will launch that. So keep your eyes and ears open for that. The week that I do launch it I am probably going to have multiple podcasts in that week as part of the launch so that will be kind of cool and you will be getting like you know, couple podcast from me. So anyway, that is it for me today. If you -- by the way, if you have a high ticket item and you have been thinking about working with us and having us you know, do it and done for you automated webinar, I would get in touch now because once we launch this, it is -- we are going to kind of specialized in that and it is going to be -- we are going to get a lot of new clients that are looking for done for you webinars. So if you have been thinking about working with us for a done for you webinar or even coaching, that is also going to be one of the packages, then I would probably reach out now and kind of get you know, jump ahead of the curve here because, again, we are going to get really, really, really busy, okay. So I hope you enjoyed this. I will talk to you next time and yeah, just you know, make sure that you take health into consideration because it is really, really important you know, for your business, for your just overall energy levels and how you feel everyday and I can tell you now like looking back to how you used to feel, you would like -- if you are overweight and you you know, if you are not eating healthy when you switch you will notice a huge difference and it is one of those things you do not realized how bad you felt until you feel good you know. You do not realized how bad you felt until you feel good. Once you feel good then you look back and you are like oh my God, how do they even get through the day you know, it is one of those things. So take that into consideration. I hope this helps you. All these things that I have done, I do on a daily basis and they have all helped me. This is the biggest changes I have made and they made a huge impact. So I hope enjoyed this. I will talk to you soon. Bye.

In this episode, we chat with Eric Siu about growth hacking!. Eric is a badass when it comes to growth hacking and how to implement little-known strategies and tactics into your business to spur new growth. We discuss everything from CRO, to ninja paid traffic secrets, and everything in between!   Resources Mentioned conversionrateexpert conversionxl.com growtheverywhere.com growtheverywhere.com/marketingschool Transcript Jeremy Reeves: Hey what is going on guys. Jeremy Reeves here with another episode of The Sales Funnel Mastery. And today, we have on the line, Eric Siu. Eric is the CEO of digital marketing agency Single Grain which has worked for Fortune 500 companies. It is a pretty big one such as Sales Force, Yahoo, and Intuit. And what they do is they help to scale the revenues using a combination of SEO and advertising strategies which we are going to talk about that today. He also owns Growth Everywhere which is a marketing podcast where he dissects growth levers that help business to scale. He has had guest from -- on the podcast from Echo Sign founder, Jason Lemkin; Eloqua co-founder, Mark Organ, Andy Johns, (inaudible 1:01.4), Facebook, Quora, and Twitter and a whole bunch more. He also contributes to Entrepreneur Magazine, Business Insider, Forbes, Fast Company, Time Magazine, and more. By the way, if you guys are not listening, he also does a podcast with Neil Patel, it called Marketing School and I listen to it every morning. I also highly recommend that you guys listen to that as well. So Eric, how are you? Eric Siu: I am good man. Thanks for having me. Jeremy Reeves: Yeah. It was a pleasure getting you on here. I think we can have a pretty fun conversation. What we are going to talk about for everybody listening is basically what is working now because Eric is kind of like me you know, we do a lot of similar things and he is -- he is kind of dabbles in a lot of different areas, so he knows what is working in a lot of different industries and a lot of different parts of the sales funnel everywhere from getting the traffic to actually making the traffic convert to making -- helping people become repeat buyers and you know, and raving fans that kind of a thing. So we are going to kind of walk through that process, but before we do why don’t you dive a little bit more into your story and tell people a little bit more about you. Eric Siu: Yeah, absolutely. So like you mentioned you know, I have an agency called a Single Grain and yeah, I mean you know, we mostly help technology companies, a couple in Fortune 500 in there and yeah, you know, we talked about growth everywhere that is why we really interview a lot of different people. We just talk about marketing and you know, talk about business and personal growth stuff and then the new one you mentioned Marketing School, that is a daily marketing podcast where I just you know, Neil and myself nerding out on marketing every single day, but we do a lot of different things you know, in addition to helping clients grow. We have our own projects too, so we kind of live and breathe marketing you know. Our ultimate goal is to really just accelerate the great ideas in the world and we just have fun while we are doing it. Jeremy Reeves: That is awesome. Yeah, I like that quote, accelerate the great ideas in the world. That is awesome. I like that. Yeah, so you are actually you know, a lot of people kind of just you know, they read things and then kind of just repeat that to their audience -- but you are actually in the trenches doing it you know what I mean which is kind of cool. Unfortunately, a little bit unique -- you know, I wish it was not -- I wish that was not a unique thing, but it is you know. So before we get into the you know, the content of this, all the you know, what is working basically. I like to do a couple really quick questions just so everybody can kind of get to know you a little bit more as a person right and there are 4 questions and the first one is. What is the worst habit that you have ever had and how did you get rid of it? Eric Siu: Worst habit that I have ever had well, I think it was probably -- I think I was just being kind of get everything at once. I think that is something that (inaudible 3:50.0) sometimes it will pop up every now and then but you know, trying to do too many things and not being able to prioritize that is something that you know, easy people struggling with quite a bit because there are so many opportunities coming to you and you just do not know what to do with them. So that is what it is. Jeremy Reeves: Yeah, you know what, I struggle with that myself sometimes. I definitely feel you there. Alright. Next one. If you could cross off one item on your bucket list like -- you probably have cross off a bunch of things. You probably have a whole bunch that you have not you know, done yet. If you could only cross off one more thing, what would -- which one would that be? Eric Siu: Yeah. I think it would be to the ultimate one, is to give away $60 million to the charity. Jeremy Reeves: Nice. I like that. And if you could change one thing about your life instantly, just you know, flick off the rest, what would it be? Eric Siu: You know what, I do not think I would change anything. I think you know, just you know a couple of years ago or a year or two ago, I started doing the 5-minute journal and that has really taught to be a lot more grateful (inaudible 4:44.8) as long as you are grateful, I think you just have to be happy with what you have, I think you are good to go. Jeremy Reeves: Yeah. You know what, I have recently started doing a similar thing myself. I write down every morning 3 things that I am grateful for and then -- I write it on a note card and then when I go up -- when my wife wakes up, I am up like quarter to 6 and she comes down around like 7, I do not know, 7:30 maybe. I do not know, something like that and when I go up for coffee I give it to her and she writes hers on the back you know and then -- the other night we actually asked both of our kids what their favorite part of the day was you know. Yeah. You know, and we are teaching -- they are only 3 and 5 and they are learning that skill already you know. It is so, so important. Eric Siu: It seems like really (inaudible 5:28.7) stuff like I used to be like you know, that stuff you know, I do not need that whatever, but it genuinely helps you know for the long term. Jeremy Reeves: Yep, yep, absolutely. And if you had to choose a spirit animal, what would it be? Eric Siu: Well, my spiritual animal -- Jeremy Reeves: Just the top of your head. Eric Siu: I think it would be the bull. Jeremy Reeves: Okay. Eric Siu: Because I used to like the Rock. I mean that brahma bull on his arm (inaudible 5:52.1) yeah it will be a bull. Jeremy Reeves: Nice. Yeah, the Rock is awesome. Nice. Okay. So with that said, now that we kind of get to know you a little bit better. Let us start with you know, getting people to the website you know, because there is kind of like -- if you really break it down, there are really only 2 pieces you know, there are getting people to the website and then actually converting those people. So I think we focus there you know, we can help a lot of people out. So you know, what are some of the things that you are finding that are working for the most amount of people in terms of getting people to the page whether that is -- and maybe you want to split it up (inaudible 6:27.6) like free stuff versus paid traffic. Eric Siu: Yeah. So I am going to keep it simple. I mean, you know what something that works well right now that not a lot of people are doing is Gmail Advertising. So that is literally you are advertising within a Gmail platform and you know, they are able to see an ad there and you click through it and (inaudible 6:46.8) to your website and the clicks are you know, really not that bad right now and the good thing about it is that you are able to target people that are opening emails. For example, if you are Coca-Cola you want to target people that are opening emails from Pepsi or you want to target people that are opening emails from Red Bull, right. And you are able to do that with a Gmail and bring them back and then drive a good you know, conversion rate and you know for 1 client that we had you know, they target cost per acquisition number was $150 that is for lead and we are getting that (inaudible 7:14.9) $7. So that is definitely worth trying. Jeremy Reeves: That is crazy -- I am actually -- I have heard about that, but I never actually done it. Is that through Adwords? Eric Siu: Yes. Jeremy Reeves: Yeah. Okay, I thought so. I am going to have look into that more. You got my curiosity peak on that one. And how about, anything with Facebook? Eric Siu: Yeah. I mean Facebook (inaudible 7:36.0) a lot of people pushing people to you know content or to webinar (inaudible 7:39.9) whatever it is. I think Facebook is you got to be doing Facebook nowadays. I mean, it is -- even it is retargeting people or getting people you know on your email list. That is kind of the bare minimum. So definitely, you know, target cold people to your content perhaps or you can warm traffic you know, these are people that know your brand. Target them to content and then you know, try to drive them down to funnel you know, even deeper. Jeremy Reeves: Yeah. You know what, you know, you are talking about content and there is kind of 2 schools of thought you know. One is hey, just you know, take it right from Facebook to your landing page whether it is a webinar or but you know, whatever it is, to your opt-in page and then the other one is you know, know (inaudible 8:15.9) content first, get super cheap clicks and then retarget them back to your opt-in pages. Is there any -- have you done any you know, because -- like a lot of people are doing really well, doing both of those, you know what I mean. Have you ever done any like straight test where you literally took the same audience, same offer, everything and tried both? Eric Siu: Yeah. I think we have and I think it really does -- (inaudible 8:39.1) it depends on the offer. It depends on what you were selling exactly. If it is something that is free you know, you might just (inaudible 8:43.8) directly to it or you know if it is a higher ticket like $1,000 or $2,000 course and they do not know who you are. You probably going to have to build that relationship and try to get into the webinar. So obviously, the less steps you have, the better because you know, my argument with (inaudible 8:57.1) what their content in the beginning was like, you know, why you want to add that step in the beginning but you know, it does in fact work because you are building a relationship you know, (inaudible 9:05.5) a piece of content and you are able to retarget that later. Really depends. You have to you know, work out the numbers on your end and then -- I think at the end of the day, if you were able to just make 1 tweak, sometimes all it takes is just 1 tweak for a campaign to sky rocket. So definitely test you know all the different ways, try to direct or (inaudible 9:23.1) piece of content and see how that does for you. Jeremy Reeves: Yeah, definitely. And you know, when it comes to you know, when it comes to -- because a lot of people really they do not focus enough. And I am actually building -- I am in the middle of building a course on doing webinars and one of the things that I am talking about is pre-selling people, you know what I mean, because so many people it is like you are taking them from you know, wherever it is, Facebook or Adwords or whatever it is and they have never heard about you and it is just like plop you know, right into the ad and I have seen a lot of people try where the ad itself had. It was more of curiosity thing you know and then when they get to landing page, they have like -- there is no context. There is no pre-sell whatsoever and they are getting a lot of clicks, but they are not getting a lot of conversions and you know, kind of the theory behind that is because they are not pre-sold you know. What are your thoughts on pre-selling people like do you try to really -- well I guess without giving it away you know, when you are writing ads for let us just say Facebook just for example. Do you try to you know, do you try to write the ads in a way that it kind of you know, targets a specific audience or do you do it more you know, maybe you are having a success with doing it more curiosity based you know, what are your thoughts on the actual ad itself? Eric Siu: Yeah. So, when I target people I mean you know, obviously you wanted to go to the you know, the message to whoever your target instead of just writing a general one. I mean -- I think you know, in general, the logic is you know, obviously (inaudible 10:55.6) target, it is going to resonate, it is going to get better, click to rates, better engagement in overall it is just better you know, better (inaudible 11:01.2). So yeah, that is generally what we do on that front. Jeremy Reeves: Okay, sounds good. You know -- and actually you know, while I am here, have you found anything that is working best for different price points you know. You know usually I find it usually like higher price points are webinars, have you found anything else -- I guess more in getting people kind of into the you know, the lower end product like for example. I have a client right now and they are selling a product for $250 right. It is a physical product, it is this mask that you put on your face. It is for like, you go out in the sun and it rejuvenates your face that kind of thing, right. So it is a beauty product. So we are not really going to do a webinar on that, probably a video at some point, but you know, it does not really fit into like a webinar category, but it is also not a just like, hey you know, here is this thing go buy it type of deal. Now we are going to try Amazon ads, but you know, besides Amazon because there are already buyers so they buy a little easier. Have you found anything that works best for you know, something like that where they are not high enough to really get them on a webinar, but it is not really low enough or it is an impulse buy you know, have you found anything that works in that like kind of a middle range? Eric Siu: Oh yeah. I will give you a couple of examples here. These are little more low tier but you know -- I have a friend at (inaudible 12:24.8) E-commerce company and they sell leather cases right, mobile phone cases and you know, it is like you know, they were $7 to $15 product and they are literally just tried the Facebook traffic to the product page and it is actually working for them believe it or not. And so that works and then you know, also we have a client that -- they have, they sell these brushes, really nice brushes, it is a subscription service. I believe it is about $20 a month and literally yeah, Facebook traffic is going straight to the product page and that is working out. So yeah, you know, the easy stuff people say you cannot really use Facebook to drive people directly to a product page. It does in fact, work. Jeremy Reeves: Nice, okay. I am going to have to -- because I have some clients that have lower end stuff and you know, a lot of what they are doing is like -- I am one -- especially when people are first starting like I always try to you know get some wins first without going into paid traffic and then once the funnel is converting, then you pay traffic rather than kind of just jump to gone over right in just because I am little bit more risk-a verse that I think most people are. So I like to do things like you know, for example, that client that I was just talking about one of the things that we are going to do is reach out the bloggers, have them review it that kind of thing you know, do like paid sponsorship type of situations that kind of thing. Just to kind of like get some feedback first you know, because it is one of those products that we have to be kind of sensitive with the objections and the way that we handle certain things. It would kind of take too long to explain it, but -- You know, brings me kind of my next one is, what are some things that you know, so you said the Gmail advertising right. So I think everybody you know, most people listening to this, they know about the like the big things you know, Facebook and Adwords and SEO and that kind of thing. What are some -- do you have any other kind of unique traffic sources that most people are not doing that they typically it makes a little bit easier to make something work you know, it kind of like the Gmail Advertising? Eric Siu: Yeah. I mean, the Gmail Advertising has followed the (inaudible 14:26.6), but I think at Youtube you know, Youtube has been something that has been you know, it is the number 2 search engine in the world and still not a lot of people are giving it even though it has continued to get bigger and bigger. I mean you look at your Facebook you will see everything single day you are seeing more and more videos. Facebook video has done well, but you know, people continue to neglect the power of Youtube advertising, but you have to think you know, you are able to retarget people. You are able to you know, to retarget or target certain channels, target certain keywords it is pretty powerful, still do not neglect Youtube advertising. Jeremy Reeves: Okay, that is a good one. And are you doing -- that is one actually that I am going to be starting to do actually with this webinar course. That is one of the things I am going to test out and also for client that I am working with now. It is also -- we are kind of (inaudible 15:12.2) you know. When you are doing Youtube, is it -- I am trying to think of the way to say this. When they are looking at the ads, is it -- do they only pay for it if they actually watch the whole -- I think there is a certain amount, they have to watch a certain number of seconds or certain percentage of the video or something like this and how that it works? Eric Siu: Yes, so the way it works is if they click on the ad you get charge for it or it is either you have to watch 30 seconds or you finish the video, which you know, whichever one comes first. That is how it works. Jeremy Reeves: Okay, nice, okay. You know I guess kind of a similar question is. Are you sending people, is it like or I guess maybe kind of depends probably. Are you using that more like an opt-in kind of strategy or you are selling it right from the ad? Eric Siu: (inaudible 15:57.2) I mean some people do opt-ins and they are getting you know, CPAs for as low as $1 to $2 or you can drive them directly to a page to sign up so either way, you know you just test it up probably (inaudible 16:08.5) and make it work. Jeremy Reeves: Okay, yeah. I guess you know, the easy way to -- I am huge you know, kind of a just hey you know, test a couple of things and see which one you know works the best and then put all of your effort into that as well and it sounds like you are kind of the same way. You know, I think an easy way to kind of figure out where to start like what strategy to start with you know, in terms of like opt-in or just a straight sale. It is probably the price point mixed with the complexity you know like the market sophistication of whatever you are selling you know what I mean. Would you agree with that? Eric Siu: Totally agree. Jeremy Reeves: Yeah, okay. I think that -- for anybody listening you know, if you want to try that out or even Gmail or whatever you know, I think it is like, if it is an easy buy you know, if it is just like hey, here is what it is, here is what it does, buy it now. Those typically tend to sell pretty well just straight from the ad versus like if you have to explain it. If the market does not really know what it is and you have to explain what it is or how it works that kind of thing, typically it is a little bit harder I think to you know, to make it work right off the bat, right. Okay, so that is -- I think that is, you know, pretty good amount of you know different traffic tips for people rather than the typical stuff do they hear or do Facebook advertising. That is like kind of it you know what I mean. I think 9 out of 10 times it is just oh do Facebook ads you know, but yeah, I mean there are a lot of other -- I am actually working with client right now who is doing a CPA offer you know, for a supplement you know, and it is like, a lot of people do not do that type of stuff you know what I mean. There are big opportunities because everybody is doing Facebook and everybody is doing Adwords so if you find things that people are not doing there is less demand there and the clicks are less and you know, and you get CPAs that are less which is you know, which is awesome. I think it is important to try some of this you know, some of these alternative strategies. So with that right, so we have the traffic now we covered that. How about some you know, conversion you know, once they -- so we are getting them to the page you know, how do we sell them once they are actually on the page you know, do you have any kind of you know, ninja tricks for you know, for doing that? Eric Siu: Yeah. I do not think there is really any ninja tricks nowadays when it comes to conversion. Nothing that comes into my -- I mean you can look at the digital marketer stuff, what they do when it comes to -- oh dragging people to a low dollar offer like a $7 offer and then doing some upsells right after you know, some one time offer you know, you up $7 and you upsell them to you know $200 product and you can upsell like another round. So you can use a tool (inaudible 18:48.4) to help you you know, set that whole thing up, but I mean in general, if we are going to talk about new conversion stuff that showing up. Generally, I just like to look at conversionxl.com or conversionrateexpert just to see what they are talking about, but I have not seen anything groundbreaking in the last couple of years. Jeremy Reeves: Yeah, you know what, and honestly I think that is a good thing because I think that -- I used to be really, really heavy into the CRO world. I actually -- conversionrateexpert actually reached out. This was a couple of years ago and they wanted me to work for them, but I am just not really an employee kind of a guy, so I said no. I actually worked with Peep too from conversionxl.com. He is super, super smart dude. And you know, I think when I am talking about conversions with people, I think a lot of people miss the basics you know. They want to focus, it is like, oh, what button color is or what color background or you know, what about you know, flashing arrows and then they are focusing on that stuff, but they have not really nailed down the core message right. They have not nailed down the objections. They have not nailed down the emotions of the market’s feeling or why their product is unique and like all the big thing is really you know, drive like 99% of the conversion you know what I mean, is that something you found as well? Eric Siu: Yeah, I mean, you know, generally people will talk about the colors and things like that just because you know, they read an article but really it is about more than that. You have to look at the data. You have to survey the audience and you have to you know, come up with the hypothesis before you start doing all this run and test and I think you know, growth hackers they just launched a tool called Growth Hackers Projects where it allows you to organize all of your tests get everyone on the same page. I think that is a great tool for you know, team to start using. Jeremy Reeves: Nice, nice. I like that. I am going to have to look that up. Because we are doing a lot too and it is like -- it is sometimes it is hard to you know, organize various tests because you have a whole bunch of them going at the same time and you forget you know what is even happening with them. I am going to have to look into that. I am going to write that down. How about you know, have you ever tested things like you know price points. I know digital marketer, (inaudible 20:55.4). He did a thing a while ago about you know, about pricing you know and I have kind of seeing the same thing. I think there is a lot of price elasticity when it comes to you know, when it comes to selling things and I have actually had a lot of different cases where a client came to me and they were selling something for whatever just say, it is $47 and we rewrote the copy and increased the price and kept the exact same conversions, but the price was you know, 50% higher. And I think that comes down to just good copy you know what I mean. Just explain (inaudible 21:30.1) the value more you know, building up the value more and reducing the risk you know more. So I guess you know, have you ever tested any types of pricing strategies that you have worked like that, like you know, you had one thing like I know with Ryan is one of the big things. He did was -- he had a $97 and he did 2 payments in 97 and it was like the same conversions with double the price that kind of thing. Have you ever done any test with that or any like kind of cool pricing strategies that works? Eric Siu: Yeah. I mean most of the time, I think people are just you know, afraid to increase their price. I mean that is the easiest way to kind of just start to scale your business and I think you know, I have certainly you know, victim to that you know, still sometimes I will be as well, but just to give you an example you know, for some clients come to us for a marketing strategy you know, (inaudible 22:16.6) marketing strategy as you know, $1,500 offer well you know, recently we started increasing into $5,000 (inaudible 22:22.9) it is literally the same thing. We just increased the price. So I think it is a matter of just saying, okay, well you know, I am just going to increase it you know, screw it. I am going to see how it works out and you know, we never got any complaints. Jeremy Reeves: Yeah and you know what, how is your -- how was the quality of your client has been, since you did that? Eric Siu: You know, it is even better. I mean you know, when you increase your price, you get different types of -- you get different kinds of people you know, if they are willing to pay that price, great right and they are not complaining you know, it is a different type of client versus the ones that are trying to you know, trying to negotiate that price down to you know, a $1,000 to $500 or something like that you know, it sets a different type of expectation I think. Jeremy Reeves: Yeah you know, I was thinking the other day about like micro continuity sites where it is like $7 a month or $10 a month versus just you know, versus just like alright say you have you know, like which is easier if you had $10 a month and you have to get whatever a thousand people to make $10,000 a month or you can charge a $1,000 a month for some kind of like you know, lower end service and have 10 clients you know, which one is easier to service or you know, $10,000 a month and have 1 client you know what I mean. And I think that is something that a lot of people you know, a lot of people missed you know. When you work with people, do you look at things like that like if they have low end and you think the price can be higher or you know like when you are working with clients -- I guess the question is rather than just like do you look at it more holistically versus more transaction I guess you know, things like that you know, pricing and the strategy behind it, the positioning rather than just like okay, lets us you know, do this traffic source and do this copy or whatever. How do you work with clients when you are -- you know, when they come to you and they have a problem that you are trying to solve? Eric Siu: I mean we would not get feedback. I mean, we have you know -- 1 client they have a type of service that is based off on subscriptions and we came to them saying, hey, you know, maybe your (inaudible 24:27.0) is a little too high, maybe you wanted you know, figure out, maybe making it just like a set price instead and try testing that out. So the thing is you know, we will take a look and we will give our feedback (inaudible 24:36.9) price at first you know that is really reserved for you know, agencies out there like price intelligently that can really help nail things down and really have a more scientific process to it. Jeremy Reeves: Okay, got you, got you. And how about -- how does your testing process go? So like you know, once you actually -- because this is, I know from an experience you know, this is an area that a lot of people get hung up on is they will put together a funnel, right, and they are all excited and then they run traffic to it and either it totally bombs right, and it is just like does absolutely nothing or it does a little bit, but it is not quite ROI positive right and then you know, of course and that is one we will focus on and then of course the other one is they launched and it does really well and you know and that is fine (inaudible 25:18.3). What is your process for going and actually like you know, taking a funnel that is -- it is kind of showing some light you know, because some of them just do bad. The messaging is all off you know, it is just not a good product in the market but you know, I think most of them will show at least some legs you know what I mean. They show signs of life they just have to be optimized you know. What is your process for actually going and optimizing funnels once they are actually launched? Eric Siu: Yeah so for us I mean we do not specifically specialize in funnels, but (inaudible 25:51.5) mostly for our own stuff I mean, when it comes to testing especially with ads I mean usually what you see with people is that they will say, okay you know, we have this $5,000 budget you know, let us test like a $100 or $200 a day and let us spread it over you know a certain amount of time. Our thing is we rather just put all that money up front and then collect all the data as quickly as we can. Get that data and then you know, try to (inaudible 26:13.3) shall we continue on with this? Are we seeing traffic with it? If we are seeing traffic let us continue and move on. So we are looking for any signs of you know, growth and then you know that is how we kind of continue to innovate. Jeremy Reeves: Okay, okay. Yeah, that makes sense. I am on the same way you know, I rather just get it all out there because why wait 2 months when you can just get it in a week you know, and then you could spend the next 7 weeks tweaking it you know what I mean and seeing you know, seeing what is wrong in that kind of thing. So when you are looking at results you know, are there any -- are there any certain KPIs that you, you know, that you typically look at -- For anybody who does not know the term, Key Performance Indicators. Any certain matrix that you look at as kind of like a benchmark? Eric Siu: Yeah. I mean there is a lot (inaudible 26:57.3) I am sure you do that too, (inaudible 27:00.4) we are looking at cost per acquisition you know, we are looking at -- or cost per acquisition, cost per lead whatever you want to call it and then we are looking if that numbers increase and decrease in overtime and then we also wanted to look at you know, also how much volume we are driving and you know, you can look at other matrix such as you know, click the rate as well, conversion rates too. Those are kind of the you know, the matrix that we look at and also cost per click too. Jeremy Reeves: Yeah and there is also going to be -- I think that is a good summary of like the you know, the basic one. Then there is -- you know, for different industries there will be a couple other like you know, specific-like industries, specific lines. Eric Siu: Yeah, the lifetime value things like that. It really depends and yeah. Jeremy Reeves: Okay, sounds good. Alright. Well, hey you know, I have a blast. I have learned a lot. I guess my last question is, is there any you know, is there a question that I have not asked or something that -- that you want the audience to know before you get off, that you would you know, you feel bad if you got off and they did not hear this one big tip. Eric Siu: No. I think that’s about it you know, if you are into marketing just listen to marketing school every single day. Give us feedback and give us topic ideas because we are always aching for more. Jeremy Reeves: Yeah, definitely. And before you hop off. Let everybody know where you know, where they can find you. Eric Siu: Yeah, absolutely. Just go to growtheverywhere.com and then you can find me on that podcast or you can go to growtheverywhere.com/marketingschool to listen to the podcast with myself and Neil. Jeremy Reeves: Sounds good. And for everyone listening, those will be in the show notes as usual and I also give my personal recommendation you know, for his podcast. They are topnotch you know, like I said, I listen to you know, to the one Neil Patel literally every morning which is cool while I am making my coffee and it is a good just kind of you know, quick insight you know, kind of just gives you new idea, nice little you know, spark I guess for the day and yeah, it is a good stuff. It was great having you on. Thanks for coming on. Eric Siu: Alright. Thanks for having me Jeremy. Jeremy Reeves: Sure.

In this episode, I talk about why it's SO important to simplify your life. Not just your personal life, but your business life as well! Enjoy Transcript Jeremy Reeves: Hey what is going on guys and girls. This is Jeremy Reeves with another episode of The Sales Funnel Mastery Podcast and I am back from vacation. Today is the Monday, October 10 and so I do not know when you will be listening to this. I think it is next week that you will be listening to this. So actually, I have been back for like a week now, but I have an awesome vacation. I spent a ton of time with the kids and family and that kind of thing and we got to go hiking and I actually tried my first 5 mile run the long time. So if you guys have not known, I have been getting really good shape this year. I went from 195 in let us see, March or April I forget, something like that and now I am down to like 170ish range. So I am super excited about that. I got a lot stronger in the process too. I gained some muscle and you know, some -- I am looking a lot better, health wise even you know, a lot better. I have way more energy and cardiovascular wise, a lot better. So one of the things I did while I was on vacation, I was kind of sitting here 1 day and I am like, know what, I am going to try -- I have some extra time, I am going to go for 5 mile run just to kind of see what happens. So I did that and I actually ended up running -- it was in like I forget like 49 minutes and some seconds, but it basically, it ended up being like a 7 minute 59 second mile which I thought was really good you know. A lot of people to get like under 9, they think it is good for a 5-mile run and I did under 8. So I am going to try to keep whittling that down. I am going to try to get to like 7 or 7:30 something like that, but I was pumped about that. Anyway, one of the things that I have been thinking about and kind of came up in my mind a lot during my vacation was simplicity, right. So I have been thinking about you know, where I am going with my business and you know how I make my money and you know, what the biggest successes have been in making the money you know, in generating revenue and it is funny because you know, I have had projects in the past where I build this big elaborate funnels you know just say like a $25,000 funnel just for an example. And it will take weeks and weeks and weeks and weeks of effort right, to make that $25,000. And you know, and that is not every single day, but that is you know, it is a lot of time you know, putting into it. I do not know exactly how many hours or days or whatever it takes for something like that. It is kind of hard to you know, to say, but basically, it is a ton of time you know, versus I just did a (inaudible 3:02.9) with the client and made that much right. I made $25,000 in like I do not know 5 hours maybe something like that and you know, it got me thinking about simplicity and it is like why am I kind of going the hard -- you know, why am I doing all that when I can just you know, why am I going this way when I could just go the other way and get the same result in way less effort and have a lot more fun you know, because I have a little bit of skin in the game. So it is like -- it is just you know, it kind of occurred to me like why the hell I am still doing this. So (inaudible 3:42.2) you know, but I am changing up my services quite a bit to be honest. To go more of that other like more (inaudible 3:50.2) deals and more just more high leverage that kind of thing. So that is what I want to talk about today you know, simplicity, right. So let us bring it back to sales funnels. Let us talk about your sales funnel, right. So you know, there are a lot of different ways that you can do it you know that you can build a sales funnel and I used to tell clients, oh we should do you know, we should like segment into 10 different you know buckets and blah.. blah.. blah.. you know, do all these kinds of things and test this and test that and test that. Let us do 3 versions of a sales letter, let us do VSL, let us do webinar on top of it and then let us also do 3 versions of the autoresponder. In that way, you know, we can test all these different things blah.. blah.. blah you know, and it was great you know, it works. But here is the thing, you know what also works is simplicity. What else would work to simplicity right. So that is kind of my message of today is you know what are you doing in your business that you could be doing it in a much more simple way and get the results. So take for example, you are starting -- let us just say you are launching a new product right and you know, let us say that you are at the point now you know -- there is a difference like do you go simple or do you do it advance right. If you already have things dialed in right and you are launching a product and you know for certain that that is going to be a big product and you have the time, you have the resources to put in a really advance sales funnel then by all means do it, because when they are advance like that they are going to work better. When you have everything in place they will work better you know. When you have segmentation it will work better. When you are really spending the time to get the copy write it will work. I mean copies that is part of the simplistic thing, but if you are trying to do like this it is kind of a multilayer super -- multifaceted, like super complex funnel right off the bat and you do not know if your message is dialed in, to me it is kind of nuts right. So you know there are these you know, various ways to do sales funnel as you know, I have my methodologies and there are things like the Ask Method with Ryan Levesque and you know Scott Oldford his Relevancy Model and with a slow lane and fast lane that kind of thing. So there is a lot of different ways, but the thing is if you do not already have the messaging in place, if you do not have already have like no exact -- if you do not have the foundation in place, if you do not already know exactly who your target market is, exactly what the problem is, exactly how your product is uniquely positioned to solve that problem, you know the core 3, we will call them, in my opinion, I think you should nail that down first and then get more complex right. So you know, Scotts’ Relevancy Model. Ryan’s Ask Method. They work fantastically well. I have done both of them. I have been doing them for years right. I have been doing -- both of those I have been doing for probably 4 or 5 years now. I just never like put a name on it right. Their brilliance is being able to actually put a process in place and being able to like really you know, narrow down like the fine details of it right. They both work really, really well right. Fantastically well, but I think that round number 1, stage number 1 should be the foundation, right. Just for example, let us just say that you are coming out with a new product, right. If you are like kind of just getting started or like you do not have a huge influence, you do not have a huge following that (inaudible 7:29.6) going to buy it right. If you are not at that stage yet, I think it is kind of crazy to go and spend you know, tens of thousands of dollars and months of your time putting it together when you can just launch it with just a simple sales funnel. Launch it to your list right and see how it does. Get feedback right. Launch it again, send a cold traffic. Get feedback. Test and tweak and then you do those you know, those models where you get crazy with it and you get, you do super advance segmentation and you know, all that kind of stuff and you are doing all kinds of crazy retargeting you know everything, all the you know, wonderful goodies that go along with those various methodologies right. Because again, they work really, really, really, well and they are going to get you better results, but you have to look at you know, how much better results are they going to get you and the bigger -- I think the bigger deal here is that when they are really complex, when there is a lot of steps, when there is a lot of segmentation and like all the kind of extra work that you know, is inevitably involve in those. The biggest issue I see with it is not really the time right. It is not the frustration or whatever of putting them together. It is the fact that it probably would not ever happen, okay. And that is the big key here is you have to look at yourself right. You have to know who you are. You have to -- like understand yourself and be honest with yourself and say look, I can either go -- there are basically 2 routes. Simple and fast with less results right off the bat right or slow and frustrating with better results, okay. And let us just say that for example. Let us just say that you are going to get I do not know, 50% better results with like a more advanced funnel or even just say double right, just say double. I mean it is kind of depend, but just say double. You have to say to yourself, okay, if I am going to spend 3 times the amount of work on this for double the results. Is it going to be worth it? And if this is going to be a million dollar funnel for you, definitely worth it. Do it, right. You can do it right off the bat. If it is not going to be right, it is going to be maybe a 6 figure funnel then go simple. Nail down the messaging right and get it to work without being complicated, okay, and then come back and you are getting let us say, (inaudible 10:00.1) something like that right then you come back and you say okay, let us go hog-wild. We are already converting the cold traffic right, let us go hog-wild and do you know, whatever -- I mean honestly basically you want to do their methodologies kind of put together right. You want to be doing like the quiz and surveys and then the relevance, the aspect of things together right. And do that second and then basically what you do is you take your ROI from 2 to 1 to 4 to 1, right. And it is going to be (inaudible 10:31.6) if it is a service business it might be 5 to 1 to 10 to 1 you know. Product like an infoproduct something like that or any kind of product, the ROI is obviously going to be less than like a -- than in really high end service, right. So I just want you to think about that you know and it is the same thing that is why you know, as you guys know, I am coming out with a course on selling high ticket items right. And the main focus there is going to be using webinars to do that. One of those reason is simplicity, right. When you have a high-end product of service, you do not need crazy you know, 18,000 segments and you know blah.. blah.. blah.. You can do that eventually, but if you cannot make that work, just like a simple -- just hey, you know, traffic to a webinar to you know, buy it. If you cannot make that work you may or may not be able to make it work with segmentation but you are still not going to have a great ROI and in my view, you are better of spending more time thinking about the problem and the customer and the solution than you are building a crazy advance funnel, right. And now that does not mean that you cannot do segmentation, right. That does not mean that you cannot -- I am not saying do not put effort to it, right. I am not saying just throw something together and see what happens. You kind of have to find that balance there. What I am saying is, know where you are because some people like me for example, I have the patience right, to spend a month or 2 months putting together copy that for advance segmentation funnel right, because I do it every day you know what I mean. So I have that patience. I have been working on this webinar product for like 2 months already and it is really just because I mean this thing is just legendary and it is going to be freaking awesome and I just want to do it right you know what I mean, like I do not want to throw some shotty product out there. I want to have it done to the point where I mean people are going insane over it. So that is what I am doing. But I have the patience for that. A lot of people do not have that patience. So if -- you have to know yourself you know. If you do not have the resources, if you do not have the money, the team, you know whatever to do like a super advance funnel then do not do it. Get something more simple in place first, right. So for example webinar funnel, right. There is -- you have to have the ads going to the page. You have to have the landing page. You have to have the prewebinar emails, right. You know to start, you can just do a reminder emails. You can go back and you know, redo it properly you know, with getting people you know, bonding with people and talk about the problem and you know, all that kind of good stuff right and that is going to improve your results, but for now, you can just use the you know, hey, reminder, your webinar is going to start blah.. blah.. blah.. in that way, it forces you to make sure that the topic that you have right, that the position that you have is going to make sales that you know, that is going to -- that is going to be the start rather than the reminder emails, right. So then you have the content of the webinar. You have the (inaudible 13:33.6) all that kind of good stuff and then you have the postwebinar emails you know. I mean the postwebinar emails that is something like I would definitely recommend having the 3 segments because you are going -- you talk to them very differently, but like if for example, you do not have to have 3 segments or more. You can just do people who missed it versus people who attend it and do 2 segments with that right. And then you know, you have your countdowns and blah.. blah.. blah.. That is a very simple funnel. It does not take that long to put together. In my course for example, the goal is going to be 14 days you know, start to finish, 14 days of your life right and you can definitely do it way faster. You can do it like if you already know you know, the problem and the solution and you know, like your topic and that kind of thing, if you are already really (inaudible 14:21.9) market it is going to be probably as little as like 3 days that you can actually do this because of the templates that I have and that kind of thing. It is really -- I mean, oh God, this freaking templates are awesome. I am so excited about them. I cannot wait like I am dying to like, show people what these are. It is just oh God, they are freaking ridiculous. Anyway, but the point of today’s message is just look within your market. It does not have to be funnels right. You can apply this to anywhere in your business. It can be funnels you know, are you doing 2 complex funnels. Are you not doing -- are you doing 2 simple funnels you know, you have to find your balance. Like everything, nothing is black and white. You should never only do advance funnels. You should never only do simple funnels. It depends on you. It depends on you know, the influence that you already have, the audience that you already have. It depends on the price point. It depends on your resources. It depends on your timeline. It depends on your goals. I mean there are so many factors in this that only you can figure that out right. So I want you to think about that. Do I want more of a simple route and then you know, once it is doing well, once you can kind of see light then you go back and phase 2 segmentation or do you say, okay, I am going to do an advance funnel first and then just be done with it and then just -- you know, you are still going to test and tweak. I mean that is part of the process regardless. That is kind of the you know, the message for the day, but it does not have to only be funnels. It can you know, look at this in every aspect of your business. Are you being too complicated you know, what can you simplify with the way that you communicate with your employees? What can you simplify with your cash flow management? What can you simplify with your workday, right. That is a big one you know, what can you simplify with your health? That is a big one for me. So like I know the triggers. I know -- for me for example, what I have learned is that if I -- my one big -- I called it Newton’s Cradle right. My one big -- Newton’s cradle is -- they are those balls that you got in science class where there was like, whatever like 4 or 5 balls in a row and you lift up the one side, it swings down hits the other one and then the other side goes up and then that comes on hits it, the other side goes up. That is called the Newton’s Cradle. I have kind of a philosophy that if you find your Newton’s Cradle when you make one change, it makes more like it reverberates throughout your entire business or your life. So for example, me with health right. If I, my Newton’s Cradle in that is tracking calories. If I track calories. I hit my goals period right. If it do not track calories, I get fat period. Like that is just how for whatever reason, if I do not track calories, I just go off on a freaking (inaudible 17:20.7) right. You know, because you do not have that like, that is kind of like my external pressure you know, that is my accountability partner is the tracking -- calorie tracking software. And by the way, for anybody wanted to lose weight it is not complicated you know, everybody always says, oh it is so complicated, it takes so much time. It takes like a minute to do it. Just a horrible excuse. Anyway, so that is my thing. Like I just found you know, that if I track whatever my goals are, I hit them. If I do not track, I do not hit them and I get fat, right. Because you know, I do not have great genes, never have you know, if I go off my diet, I gain weight very, very easily, but if I do go on my diet, I lose weight easily you know what I mean. Not really easily, but you know, I can whittle down to where I want to be. So that is the message for today you know, look throughout your life. Where are you overcomplicating things. Is it your relationship? Is it your health. Is it your you know, is it your relationship with your kids? Or you know, (inaudible 18:23.3) like your wife or your husband? Is it in your business? Is it in the way that you communicate with people. It is in you know, your working habits? It is in your health? I think already said that. So just look you know, look or maybe write down and say okay, what is one thing that I can simplify in each of the you know, the main areas. Let us just call the main areas maybe like a business body you know, your spirituality and I think I am missing -- I do not know money you know, whatever like the big for you. So yeah, that is it for today. I hope you enjoy this. As always, if you enjoy this message, make sure you are sharing it with other people. I have been getting a lot of comments recently. People you know, really enjoying the podcast. Thanks for those. Make sure that you are leaving a review. It only takes a second and that is the absolute biggest compliment that you can give me is by leaving a review. That is what is going to help us get more listeners and that is what is going to help you know, when we get more listeners, I put more time into it, right. There has to be that you know, basically it hast to be worth it for me. So as long as that continues to increase, then I will continue to do this and bring you the goodies. So make sure that you left a review. If you did by the way, reminder about that. If you send an email to support@jeremyreeves.com telling us that you left a review just let me know like when you left it or you can copy paste whatever or whatever you want to do. I will give you a copy of my conversion cheat sheet, it is 101 split testing tips that you can use to increase conversions all throughout your entire funnel. I used to sell it for $77 and if you leave a review, I will give it to you for free. Sounds pretty cool. So anyway, that is it. I hope you enjoy the rest of your day and week and I will talk to you soon.

In this episode, we chat with the one and only Ben Settle. Ben is a well-known email marketer who has a unique approach to writing emails. We get into the specifics of his unique style, why it works so well, why most people royally screw up the entire purpose of emails, and how you can use it in your own business for better results and a heckuva lot more fun writing emails! Resources Mentioned bensettle.com Transcript Jeremy Reeves: Hey, what is going on everybody. Jeremy Reeves here with another episode of The Sales Funnel Mastery Podcast. Today, I have on the line, Ben Settle. Probably a lot of you listening know about Ben. Basically, he is an email marketing bad ass -- if you bring up the subject email marketing, you have probably heard his name somewhere in there. He basically runs -- he does not do copy work anymore, anything like that. He kind of just focuses on you know, showing business owners how to write better sales copy with email and we will talk about it a little bit later where he has a news letter called email players which is pretty awesome and we will get into a little bit about that later. Ben, how are you buddy? Ben Settle: I am doing good, Jeremy. Thanks for having me on your show here. It is good to be here. Jeremy Reeves: Yeah, yeah. I appreciate you coming on. So before we get into like you know, the actual tips and all that kind of stuff. Tell everybody a little bit about yourself you know, go into your story a little bit so people know you know, who you are or what you have done and why people talked about you in the industry. Ben Settle: Okay. I felt everybody says good things about me (inaudible 1:25.3) I hope not or else I am doing something wrong. I am basically -- whenever people ask me what I do -- and being in this industry you know the frustration to that problem. You go to a party and it is not business people, certainly not internet people. What do you do, right. What are you saying.. I used to have these different answers. I would like to gauge people’s response. Like I (inaudible 1:47.6) expand emails. I write (inaudible 1:51.0) emails, but now I will say, I am like (inaudible 1:53.4) who gets paid. And then they go, what do you mean by that. I said, well, I wake every day. I write an email, it takes me 10 to 15 or maybe 20 minutes tops and then I am done. I go off and have fun and play all day. That is the essence of what I do and the kind of lifestyle (inaudible 2:09.6) you know, there is people right now out there glorifying long hours and hard work and few hours of sleep and I am like the (inaudible 2:19.9) whatever it is or a writer who does not you know understand grammar, but that is like, I am the opposite. I have tried to build a lifestyle where -- I do other stuff, but I only have to do that and so that is pretty much what I do. Jeremy Reeves: Nice, nice. Why did you make that decision you know, because I am on the same way and everybody listening to this probably is too because that is what I talked about all the time is you know, time freedom and kind of not going after you know, the typical like you work until your eyes bleed just because you know, if you are trying to build a company sell for you know 7, 8, or 9 figures then maybe do that for a couple of years and then sell it and then you know do whatever or like Gary Vaynerchuck says, you know, he cannot live any other way you know, that is just part of your DNA and that is fine, but I mean, I definitely at more along the lines of yours you know what I mean. Work for a couple of hours. Work you know, for a little bit and then enjoy your life you know. So why did you -- why did you end up you know, wanting to go down that path you know, versus like the work until your eyes (inaudible 3:28.4). Ben Settle: Yeah (inaudible 3:28.4) and I was just speaking at an event a couple (inaudible 3:32.2) weekend and I remember telling people I am like the anti Gary V. not that I am against him (inaudible 3:39.8) I respect the guy. Do not get me wrong, but I am anti that in the sense of I do the opposite, like I could not -- I am not a -- like he said, he is apparently -- I have never heard the guy talk before. It is kind of funny because everybody (inaudible 3:50.9). Apparently, I was on this interview called mixology I think with Andrew Warner. Really cool show. He was telling me that in an interview Gary V (inaudible 4:01.5) he is like a mutant. He only needs like an hour of sleep. I do not know man. To me, like that is not what I want. So this is probably back like 2004, I was you know, somewhat new copywriter. I have been doing it for about a year or two or whatever. And I remember being on this guy’s list, Matty Furey. Now, to me, Matt Furey is the email king. I give him all the -- I mean, the stuff he teaches is the foundation of how I got in to all of this. Now I hear often a lot of ways not but the foundational stuff. Yeah, I owe that guy everything as far as I am concern. I will be pumping gas at the Chevron right now (inaudible 4:35.6) for him. He was selling to the fitness niche right. You know, body weight, exercise books master stuff. He would write an email everyday and he will be done. Sometimes he brag (inaudible 4:45.1) you know. I do not even check his email respond. Just pushing (inaudible 4:48.0) I want to go off. I am in China. I am going to go write often and get massages whole day out. And I thought, man, that is what I want. I (inaudible 4:54.8) busting my ass like you know, client work. I am like, I want that. I want to go just send an email out and be gone for the day, so I can have the option to do other things if I want and I do. I write novels like monster novels and I (inaudible 5:07.4) joint ventures that I am involved in like in a golf market, but that stuff is optional, okay. (inaudible 5:12.9) to do this one thing and it is a very freeing way to live. I can still work hard if I want you know, I do. I do work hard. I get bored very easily, but it is nice to not have to, that is my whole point. Jeremy Reeves: Yeah and I think that is a big point you know. It is the freedom to do you know, if you wake up one day and then you are like shit, I just do not feel like working. I mean, you do not have to, you know, versus if you are tied down by a thousand things, it does not matter how you feel when you wake up. You have to work and it is just your grinding through it. You hate your day and that kind of thing. I totally get that. I love that. Ben Settle: To clarify a job at that point. Jeremy Reeves: Yeah, it really is, yeah. And I think a lot of people are you know, struggling with that. I think that is how most people set up their businesses. Ben Settle: You know, there is something -- I am also going to play Devil’s Advocate against myself because at the same time and I told (inaudible 6:05.8) you probably heard me talked about this in Kenny Roger’s thing. At the same time, those guys (inaudible 6:12.2) building actual real businesses and companies that they can sell off or just leave to a team to run, I wish I was more like that. I mean they are really the winners. They are the ones are going to win this race. I am just sitting there. I am just coasting along right now. If I get sick or hurt or die, some kind of (inaudible 6:27.1) because I do not have that (inaudible 6:29.5). So there is freedom there, but it is like the freedom of a drifter and like that (inaudible 6:34.4) David Banner wondering the earth. Well if he breaks his legs, he is kind of screwed you know. At the same time, I mean there is something (inaudible 6:42.0) to the other side and I should be thinking more like that. I just have not thinking inspired yet. Jeremy Reeves: Yeah, yeah. You know, like anything else, there is pros and cons. There is no black and white. There is no perfect way to do things. It is just whatever works for you and your lifestyle you know, what you want to do you know. So you know, for anybody who has not heard of you, I feel like a lot of the audience listening to this probably has at least a familiarity with you and the style of writing that you do, but tell everybody about like, because your writing is very different than most people you know what I mean. So I guess walk us through like the -- I guess like the overall framework that you used for writing and I do not know if you can write copy. I know some people can just spout off copy off the top of their heads, but like just to kind to give an example of what it sounds like just so people can see, kind of hear how it is different you know, than like a typical email. Ben Settle: Well, here is -- they have been hearing me do it since we got on the phone or on the Skype here because I write just like I talk and this is the fact. If I have a unique way of writing it is only because I have a unique -- everybody has a unique personality. I simply expressed mine through my writing. How I write is exactly how I talk. In fact, you were talking to Jonathan Rivera you said recently and he is my -- I am going to be doing a new podcast by (inaudible 8:05.8) well I can do new (inaudible 8:07.6). Jeremy Reeves: That will be interesting. Ben Settle: I had a podcast for 2-1/2 years with him and he was the producer and I am going to be you know, we ended that in actually just a couple of weeks ago completely. Now we are going to do a new one next year, different one. But anyway, he told me that, he called me on the air once and he went to some mastermind right where there is a bunch of people there that I guess knew me in person. We have hang out (inaudible 8:31.4) and then like you know, Ben sounds exactly like, on his podcast as he does it in email as he does in real life is the exact same voice completely congruent. You know you are talking to -- you can tell it is a Ben email without even seeing the frontline if you know him or heard him talk. So all I am doing is writing like I talk which is a very simple principle that I learned from Matt Furey actually. I give him all the credits for it. I used to censor myself. I do not anymore. I am raw, uncircumcised opinion and that is the way I do things. Jeremy Reeves: Nice. So how do you -- in terms of like you know, because I get a question a lot of you know, how much value do you put it in and like what do you sell. How do you leave the sale like all you know, all the kind of typical marketing questions. What is your -- do you have like a -- I guess like a framework for your emails, like do you follow a certain structure for them or do you kind of just like blurted out and you know, or do you follow like kind of a certain structure for them? Ben Settle: Well when I was figuring all this out, I very consciously started figuring out different structures. So for example, I am going to tell a story and 1 email or I am going to do a Q&A or I just (inaudible 9:41.3) with somebody ask me and I just answer. That is another structure or checklist of some kind or just a rant like a controversial rant and a whole bunch more. But I had to consciously work all this out and systematized it and you know, that is kind of what I teach these days, but nowadays, it is (inaudible 10:00.1) to me, I do not think any of that stuff. It is just in my subconscious. I just sit down and I have an idea, I start writing and I cannot explain it beyond that (inaudible 10:07.5) it is kind of like (inaudible 10:08.9) right. When you are trying to learn something, you are consciously unconfident. You know, you do not know and then you go from conscious confidence where you can do the thing while you are thinking about it and then you get to the point you are unconsciously confident which is like driving a car, you did not think about it anymore. And that is where I am (inaudible 10:25.2) that now, but I did have to work that stuff out originally and just keep doing it over, over, and over for the last you know, 8 or 9 years every day, sometimes 2 to 3 times a day to the point where it is so (inaudible 10:37.1) it is like hard for me not to write an email every day or voice emails. Jeremy Reeves: Yeah and actually, you know, speaking of daily emails. I know you are (inaudible 10:45.9) daily emails and you know, everybody has a different opinion on that of course. So you know, walk us through like you know, why you do daily emails? Have you tested not doing daily emails you know, have you tested autoresponders you know, what are some of the things that you have kind of try and saw that it work best around like frequency. Ben Settle: Well, when I first get started many months ago, I did like what the late great Gary Halbert used to teach people to do and I mean this with all due respect to him, but he was (inaudible 11:17.1). I mean he is right about a lot of stuff, but this where he was wrong. He was big on like send an email when you have something to say and then or only saw once in a while because then you know, people take it more seriously you know, all that what make sense on the (inaudible 11:32.9) especially back in like the 90s and all -- they kind of make sense. I still think it you know, when the work is well is how I do it now, but whatever, it does not matter. So I used to do that and so well, I would go months and months and months without selling anything. I would just be giving free content and free articles and then one day like exactly 10 years ago actually because I remember 2006, my friend John Anghelache who is a very good copywriter, excellent copywriter, I respect the guy tremendously, he put together a product for freelanced copywriters like how to get clients and my list was you know, very into that sort of thing I said good, I have got something to sell them right, it is a high ticket, high quality thing I believed in. So I send some -- (inaudible 12:14.1) asking for the sale and got a bunch of angry mob of angry people. How dare I sell anything. You are pimping your (inaudible 12:21.2) I never sold anything before though. And that is when I realized trying to appease these loser freebie seekers is the worst thing you can do if you want to have a solid email list or you are not getting a bunch of spam complaints and just trolls and all that. And so I started you know, thinking about that with why I am trying to appease this people. I have something to sell, I should do it and then of course I ran into Matt Furey’s teachings. He is pure daily email from many reasons like for example, people procrastinate you know, and you can assume it even seeing your last 10 emails just because of spam filters and they are busy. I get people telling me Jeremy that they made a decision to buy from me 6 weeks earlier than when they actually did. They just did not have the money. They just (inaudible 13:03.5) for reminding them every day. And here is another thought. If you are trying to position yourself as an expert, personally, I would like to position myself as a leader not just an expert because people listen to experts but they follow leaders, but let us just say -- Jeremy Reeves: It is a good distinction. I like that. Ben Settle: Yeah, I mean, you are trying to position yourself as some kind of authority, let us just put it that way and (inaudible 13:24.1) something to say once a week or twice a week you know, and then this other guy comes along and he has something to say every day. Who is -- perceptually, who is the leader? I mean if you do not have something to say everyday on what you are doing, people may not consciously think about it, but unconsciously, they think about this person is really the expert they say they are. And so, it is that and it is just this consistency, is like talk radio right, like every day you show up. They do not have read every email, but I am there every day and I am going to get them eventually if they are susceptible to my (inaudible 13:55.8) and the people I do not want will leave peacefully because they are tired of getting (inaudible 14:00.0) emails, so it is fine. It works out in so many -- it is a good way to keep your list strong and keep people kind of addicted to you like literally get a dopamine drip when they see your name in it, (inaudible 14:10.7) what is he going to say today. And you know, there are so many reasons to do daily and no I cannot think of any reason not to other than pure laziness or like you know, people just (inaudible 14:20.2) why I have to do the work. Jeremy Reeves: Yeah, yeah. That is a good point, and honestly, I think that is what it is most of the time you know. Ben Settle: (inaudible 14:28.4) they do not want to have to do it and I give it (inaudible 14:31.9) I understand it completely. I might even making fun of them because they think I know I should do that I am not doing and I am not doing it because I am being lazy and my rationalization (inaudible 14:43.0) spinning some other reason out, but the fact -- at the same time I will say this too. (inaudible 14:49.1) of internet marketing as we know it, (inaudible 14:52.3) but I once interviewed him, this is back in 2008 or something. He says, he only sends 3 a week and he tested it. Apparently, somehow got more sales doing that, whatever. I have never seen that be the case with anybody else but him, but (inaudible 15:08.3) about or anything. He is not a lazy guy so and he likes writing email, so for him, you know, I guess you have to do your own thing. I think that through writing emails that people want to read. Why wouldn’t you want to be there every day. They are looking forward to it. Jeremy Reeves: One of things I want to touch on and feel free to rant about this as much as you want. Ben Settle: I will Jeremy. (inaudible 15:32.1) free to rant. I love that kind of stuff. Jeremy Reeves: So what are your thoughts on controversy? Ben Settle: I love controversy. I tell you what. It is one of the things I teach people to do. First of all, people love controversy. I mean, it is (inaudible 15:49.2) right. People just arguing about the stupid and shit you know, (inaudible 15:54.0) 300 comments long and nobody has made a point. Nobody has change anyone’s mind, but they just like ranting. (inaudible 16:01.2) talk radio it is a lot of ranting, right. People like to hear ranting about things they are passion about. They like to hear ranting controversial stuff about (inaudible 16:09.2) they disagree about them. Let me give you an example. Back in the late 1980s, Marvel Comics decided to turn the green rampaging Hulk into a smart gray Hulk, who is smaller, not as strong, he is still strong, but not as strong as rampaging green Hulk because he is kind of like sinister-minded, kind of an antihero kind of you know, just a vicious guy basically. And all of the green Hulk people were pissed. They are sending letters (inaudible 16:37.0) writers and editors and we are never reading the Hulk again and then they noticed every month that went by, the same people were still there. They did not leave. They are still there just to see how much mad they can get and sales keep going up more. So controversy, it is a funny thing. Half of your list should disagree you know, half will probably agree with you and that is actually a very good balance and the (inaudible 16:59.8) one, you can pull to your side. So I am all for controversy. It also shows that you have some balls. I mean, most people are afraid to be controversial and people like to follow brave people. They do not want to follow some timid little rabbit like you know, (inaudible 17:16.7) me as I was. I was as timid little rabbit afraid to say too. I have tried to get to controversial. Now, it is like, I just want to see the expression on their faces change when I say something that pisses them off you know what I mean (inaudible 17:30.0). Jeremy Reeves: That gives you your little dopamine rush every day when you get hate mail. Ben Settle: It is a rush of dopamine. I love it. I eat it up. I love and then I use it in the next day’s email to make their point stupid and (inaudible 17:44.0) my part. Jeremy Reeves: Yeah. And the funny thing is, I always say like you know, if you picture yourself kind of like in the middle and you are like you know, like a magnet and the more that you pissed off people and push away and polarized people, the amount that whatever like the amount of whatever polarization you have to those people is the exact like in inverse relationship with people attracted to you, you know what I mean. Ben Settle: Absolutely. I totally agree with that. In fact, that is a major foundation of personal branding like how it is done, at least done. Most of them do not understand personal branding but done properly that is exactly it. You can almost tell your success by how much people hate you. And there is something else that (inaudible 18:29.0) deeper thing at work here too. Someone who is not afraid to just give their opinion up. It has to be done righteously. It cannot be done as a tactic or like I am going to be controversial is a tactic. It is going to be because you really see something that you know is wrong in your mind, in your heart like you are going to talk about it. It makes people realized that you are not me. You do not need them, if you did, you would be dancing on (inaudible 18:52.5) right, and you are almost trying to repulse some away and there is a lot of -- it is under the consciousness. It is not some people think about, but by being controversial that is why people do not go away because they -- there is something about you that they find attractive as a business owner, as a leader, and whatever, and even if they disagree or do they respect you and it is far more important as the late great (inaudible 19:15.5) I would say. It is far more important to be respected than liked and the more effective you are the more respected you are. So just by getting good at what you do, and proving your point and not giving in like the late -- for example, the late Dr. Atkins, right. I mean, he for years, was getting abuse by the media and people mocking him around. He stood with it. Now he is a world recognized brand you know. There is something to be set for that. Jeremy Reeves: Yeah. And I think a good example of not being controversial just to be controversial is like, if you are you know, so like we both agree with the -- we both kind of stand for like the you know, building a business for freedom you know versus the whole work until your eyes bleed thing. So you can be controversial about that. You can say like you know, the other side is I do not agree with that, blah.. blah.. blah.. and that is kind of good way to do, that gives -- you are going to attract people that think the same thing. And then, but if you want to do the stupid way is kind of like if you are like oh I hate all puppies you know, it is like -- like there is no -- there is no meaning behind it. You are just being an idiot you know what I mean and whether you hate puppies or not I mean I do not know how you can hate puppies, but you know what I mean like it is not actually serving a purpose to say that you know what I mean, I think that is a good -- Ben Settle: I will give you a recent example and so I think -- I think this is like, this will give people an email example too so it is kind of like teaching them email stuff at the same time. I am not totally against (inaudible 20:43.2) so for last year and a half, I have been studying this kind of kung fu called Wing Chun. Wing Chun, sometimes people think I am saying Weng Chan. Jeremy Reeves: I actually thought you did. Ben Settle: Yeah, well because of my stupid Midwest accent thing, gets me in all kinds of trouble, but I got to shake that, someday, but anyway, I was talking to my (inaudible 21:05.8) just last week and he was telling me about this -- I do not know Chinese phrases (inaudible 21:10.4) it is called flowery hands. These are like kung fu like and not just kung fu but any kind of martial arts were just all show and it is flashy but it is not really applicable in real life (inaudible 21:21.0) in Hollywood and movies. Most of them is just bullshit, it would never work. It is flowery hands. It is very fluffy. It is made to look cool, but the reality is you are not in balance with anything. You can easily get (inaudible 21:30.7). So I said, we have some of that and this was an email I sent (inaudible 21:34.4) and then we have some flowery hands in the email world too and I went over some things that I think (inaudible 21:40.9) that people do like will take the Gary V and I am trying to pick (inaudible 21:46.2) I just do not agree what a lot of people of do. He has this thing I think it is called jab, jab, jab, right hook, like that. Like give something free, give something free and then make an offer. I am completely against that. I think that is very flowery hands. The style looks nice, but the reality is that it is very selfish to not sell on every email and (inaudible 22:08.4) opinion because if you have something that is going to benefit someone’s life, what good (inaudible 22:14.2) at least left a note (inaudible 22:15.5) everyday. It is kind of like -- if you have a painful urinary tract infection, where it feels like you are pissing a razorblades and all that. You need to go to the store or pharmacy to get your prescription and they have -- the pharmacy (inaudible 22:28.4) and they say look, this is a good will day today, we are not going to sell you anything (inaudible 22:32.2). Like that is the mindset, the flowery hands mindset or people -- for example, there are people who give their list the option on how often they should hear from them. It sounds very nice. Very nice guy. Very (inaudible 22:47.0), it is still very selfish and at the same time, it is going to kill your sales (inaudible 22:50.9). And it is very flowery and I am not saying it would not work and some people can definitely pull it off and it is fine. There is nothing wrong with it, but to me, it is very flowery. It is just for show as to prove that I am not this big salesman. I am a salesman. I am trying to sell you something, but I am going to do it in a way where you like it, you know. I am like the passive abusive guy you know what I mean. I am going to abuse you, but you are going to like it. And you want more the next day. So anyway, I did an email about that. I did it once. There are some other things too and that was controversial email. I was not insulting. I was not trying to insult anyone’s specific (inaudible 23:29.2). I was simply giving people a different option for thinking differently basically because most people are thinking in this (inaudible 23:36.2) world (inaudible 23:37.7). They do not have to listen to me. They do not have to agree with me, but they are going to see another point of view and that could be controversial. Jeremy Reeves: Okay, yeah, yeah. I mean, honestly, if you look like a really good example of all this right now whether you love (inaudible 23:50.8) is trump, right. I mean, oh my God, I mean the marketing (inaudible 23:55.9) from that guy is just, Jesus -- Ben Settle: I hear you. I mean, earlier this year where I finally read his book, (inaudible 24:03.4) and I am like his whole play from what he is doing is in that book. There is no mystery to what he is doing. People like to (inaudible 24:09.4) at the reality is just very basic. Principle based versus tactic based and you are right and you know, he is controversial and he does it on purpose, but he is also doing it because he sees a problem that needs to be solved. Now whether you agree to him or not it does not matter. I do not give this guy a malicious (inaudible 24:26.9). I do not think they are being malicious not certainly on purpose, Hillary maybe, but like (inaudible 24:32.7) I do not look at him as trying -- I do not agree to anything he says, but I do not think he is malicious (inaudible 24:38.0) I think he believes them and it is controversial and (inaudible 24:41.4) and so as Trump is the same way. Jeremy Reeves: Yeah, definitely. So let us take this you know, because there is like the whole daily email thing right, and I think we cover that pretty well, but how about like when you are doing -- let us just say that you are doing a promotion you know what I mean. So it is like, you are sitting down. You are planning out some actual strategy because you are not going to write -- you are not going to -- you maybe write the same way in terms of like tone and things like that, but in terms of like the actual strategy behind it, that is going to change obviously because you know, you cannot just send out you know, the exact same daily emails when you are doing like a 4 day promotion or something like that. So how do you switch up the strategy? Do you keep the same tone, I am sure you do, but you know, is there a certain strategy that like a certain way that you like to structure those types of emails or like how does the overall email strategy change based on like the end goal that you are trying to reach. Ben Settle: It does change at all for me. The same email -- for example, if I had a 100 emails in an autoresponder space the day apart, I write them randomly in the exact same as if I am writing email broadcast and it has never hurt me. It is always done very well. What I do, okay, -- this might be the better answer to your question. I do not look at email tactically like most people do. Like -- okay, so I have Facebook group. This one guy was in there saying, well, how about this 4 emails I want to send off. This one tells, agitates the problem and this one you know, whatever, it is like problem education and I said, dude you are dead in the water right now because you approaching this tactically and you should be calling from a principle based thing. This is (inaudible 26:20.7) the world’s most (inaudible 26:23.3) negotiator. The reality is that you should be looking at what your market, what the problems are in your market and writing about that, not thinking (inaudible 26:30.3) agitate. What is insecurity they have that you can write about it you know. It is really (inaudible 26:36.6) like come from the market first not (inaudible 26:39.2). And so, that is how I approach for example for a promotion. I say, look, I think I have a real-life example, a recent one actually of something like it. So I say, okay, so a couple of years ago, I (inaudible 26:39.2) most people do. So this is back when he had this product that shows you how to do the survey funnels. He does not have it anymore. Now it is like a mastermind, but -- I bring this example up because I beat all his affiliates handily including some pretty big names like I just beat them all and I did not even try (inaudible 27:10.8) burned up somewhat. I was (inaudible 27:10.8) vacation. All I did was I said, okay, I have affiliate marketers on my list. I have network marketers on my list. I have freelance copywriters on my list you know, I looked at all the people who are on my list and I did an email about each one. So how could a network marketer (inaudible 27:27.3) this and I write email about that. How can affiliate marketer use this information, wrote an email about that (inaudible 27:32.9) same style and tone and all that, but I was targeting different segments of my market. I did this recently with Danny (inaudible 27:40.5) you know Danny (inaudible 27:41.3). I was selling his course builder (inaudible 27:43.6). He simply really -- this is way better than -- like the average affiliate. I do not know if I did the best or not, but you know, way better. I mean, he was very happy about it. I did the same thing. Okay, so, why would a freelance copywriter need to learn how to build a course. Why would an affiliate marketer need how to build the course. Why would a network marketer (inaudible 28:01.6) it is all about your list and the people on and what they want, tailored around that. That is the principle then you can throw the tactics after the next emails if you want, but starts with that. Jeremy Reeves: Yeah, you know what, I am actually -- I am actually working the whole day today and yesterday and tomorrow and probably the weekend actually which I rarely work weekends, but I am just motivated this weekend. But I am coming out with the new course and that is, well like, what the whole thing is wrapped around because I mean, you know, as a copywriter, you know, you are trained to, you are trained to -- and honestly this is really what separates really good copywriters from really bad copywriters is how much you focus on the actual market, the problems they are having you know what I mean, because you can write -- it kind of comes back to the flower hands. You can make the copy sound great but if you are talking about the wrong problems or you are talking to the wrong audience of if it is generalized, it is not going to sell you know what I mean. Ben Settle: (inaudible 29:01.6) all the time. People’s flashy headlines, all the shit. They think it is so cool and it is like, you missed the market -- You know, let us talk about this a little bit more. This is very interesting topic. (inaudible 29:12.0) I do not have the product made yet, so write the ad first, and then create and like create the product in the ad. I did this in the -- work at home (inaudible 29:21.1) we did not have a product, right and we look at the market and I wrote the ad saying if I have unlimited powers what would I teach these people and put it in the ad and then it is like, okay, now we just need to make a product that fulfills all these claims and if we cannot, we just take those claims out. That is the ideal way to do it. Only copywriters are going to get that. Operators are not going to understand that. Jeremy Reeves: I am actually working on a client project right now and I am just about to finish up all the copy and I literally have not seen her product yet. It is actually not even -- it is not even created yet, yeah. And what I told her was, because she was starting to make it and I said, wait until the copy is actually done because then like I can just write it and until it sounds freaking awesome, and then -- Ben Settle: Absolutely. Jeremy Reeves: Yeah, and then what you have to do is you have to then create the product so it matches the level of copy you know what I mean, versus if you create the product and the product sucks, will -- I mean the copy or the product is the weak link and the copy can only go up to that level versus if you write the most amazing copy in the world and sell the hell out of it then the product has to come out to that level you know. Ben Settle: Absolutely. It brings it up. It actually raises -- and you know what, when I first got into golf interest like in 2009, I did not know shit about golfing, seriously. I hope I am not slamming too much in your (inaudible 30:39.3) But I did not know anything about golf, like I was -- I never played a bit, not even miniature golf and but I studied the market so intensely and the product was not ready, but I was able to write 80% -- everything but the bullets basically, without even seeing the product or knew the market and they killed, I mean it absolutely killed it in sales. I mean there is no one even close and so yeah, I agree with you on that. Jeremy Reeves: Yeah, definitely. And that is the same thing. I just have to go back and do the bullets you know. Having the product, that is really all you need is just the bullets you know. Ben Settle: Yeah, (inaudible 31:12.1) that is really how you need it exactly. Jeremy Reeves: Unless you are doing you know, one of the like (inaudible 31:16.9) old ads where it was just like a headline and then bullets and you know, go here to buy. Ben Settle: One of my favorite kind of ads to write. Jeremy Reeves: Then you kind of you know, you kind of need the product, but in every other case you know and I have not really -- I think that is the only time I have heard or even seen (inaudible 31:34.2) like that. I do not think I have ever seen anybody duplicate one of those you know. Ben Settle: I tried (inaudible 31:39.7) couple case like I have this ebook called Crackerjack Selling Secrets, (inaudible 31:45.8) like a main stream like it is a problem they know they have and they know they want solutions to it and you can (inaudible 31:51.7) it is like informational (inaudible 31:53.5) to teasing, it is perfect. You do not even have to do (inaudible 31:57.2) you know, just start running bullets, it is like to shoot bullets at them. Jeremy Reeves: Yeah, bullets are good. I think the biggest thing people are wrong with them is they almost like give it away in the bullet whereas you know, they are fascinations. They are supposed to be you know, they are supposed to build curiosity you know and I think -- Ben Settle: Yeah. 90% is a good -- like 90% (inaudible 32:20.3) 10% but they need to execute it is like the best kind of bullet, because it is informational like you could be getting educated (inaudible 32:27.4) Jeremy Reeves: So one -- oh God, I just had it, and it went out. I love that when that happens during the interview. Alright, well, I guess we will skip that one. Oh you know what, you know what I was going to ask you, it just came back. So one of the things that I always talk about is that you know, when you are doing these type of emails and like a lot of your -- a lot of people think you know, email is dead and obviously that is just total bullshit. But you know, when it comes to doing email or even social media, it is kind of like the same thing whatever you like your main marketing you know, some people are really good at and by the way, anybody listening to this, if you hate writing emails, but you are really good at videos, you are really good on social media, you can use the same principles and just use it in a different media you know what I mean. Ben Settle: It is all the same. It is all freaking same. In fact, I have a guy just showing my email players newsletter. I met him while I was speaking a couple of weeks ago. His name is Tyson (inaudible 33:34.0) I hope I said his name right. He is big in the (inaudible 33:36.3) world and he is a video guy. He is great. He is freaking genius at video. He is like (inaudible 33:40.6) all can be applied to video. I have another subscriber (inaudible 33:46.2) he is a rapper and he was like, Ben, I never write emails but I take it in (inaudible 33:52.2) he is on youtube and it work. So yeah, what you are saying is absolutely true. Jeremy Reeves: Yeah, yeah and so where I was going with that because I went off you know, total spider web there. One of my kind of theories is that you know, when you are doing this you are basically building a relationship and even if they are not because you said a while ago, you know, a lot of people -- they know they are going to buy, it is just kind of waiting for the right time whether it is money or whether they are too busy doing other stuff or whatever it is. Would you agree that writing daily emails or even just frequent emails or just having that relationship keeping constant touch, it really just sets -- it’s kind of sets the stage, it builds the trust so that whenever you come out with something, I think this is why you are such a good -- when you do affiliate programs it is because you built that trust you know with them. You built that relationship with them and it is like, it almost does not even matter what you are selling, it is just like oh well, Ben says this is good, therefore, I need it you know. Do you agree with that? Ben Settle: Yes and in fact, I am thinking -- all of the stuff. The relationship is far more important to go back and trying to build credibility and all the stuff because that is the credibility in fact that they like and trust you. That is why I said there is a different -- copywriting is different than email in that sense. Like copywriting has to be very specific because -- you know, it is a static thing (inaudible 35:13.5) everyday you do not have to pitch benefits and try to prove how great you are everyday. You just have (inaudible 35:18.1) with dialogue just like you would -- It is funny that you brought up like people just buy it. So I launched this product called Copy Slacker last February and you know, I ordered 50 sets of it because I do not think (inaudible 35:33.7) I thought I get 50 sales or maybe 40 sales. I have like a 177 and I do not know -- I doubt anybody, any of them really read the sales letter. (inaudible 35:48.2) told me, I just bought you know. So you are right about that and by being there, that is another reason to do daily emails you know everyday like a friend in their inbox. Jeremy Reeves: Yeah, definitely. I have heard a lot of product launch you will see it is like you know, hey it is 12 o’clock, the cart is open and you have 10 sales at 12 o’clock exactly you know what I mean. Ben Settle: That is a function of a very good marketing. Well it is the very end of February, first couple of days in March I was -- I spoke at AWAI’s web copywriting intensive (inaudible 36:20.3) and Clayton Makepeace was there. It was honored to actually get to meet him and actually be on the panel. I was like, wow it was like my fan boy dream come true. I remember him teaching. He was -- what we are trying to do, what he was doing in his business is, he wants to (inaudible 36:37.1) so that the sales letters just not even necessary like the selling is already been done before I get there. And this is what emails (inaudible 36:44.4) you do (inaudible 36:45.4) it lets you sell before it is even like you said, the cart opens and it is got to be close in 20 minutes already because it is already sold out. Jeremy Reeves: Yep, yep. Who is that, I think it is Joe Polish that says, basically the you know, the product and marketing should make -- oh God, what am I trying to say. I am blanking here again, wow, I must be tired. Jesus. The purpose of marketing is to make selling superfluous you know what I mean. Ben Settle: That is all (inaudible 37:21.1) actually. Jeremy Reeves: Yeah. I mean the purpose of marketing is basically so that when you are going to sell something they are already sold on it regardless of what it is. Obviously, as long as in touch with what they actually need you know what I mean. It is not like you can go and sell them like a garbage can and then they are going to buy it you know maybe you can, you should do a test. That will be funny. You should put your face on a garbage can. Let us see if it is (inaudible 37:43.2). Ben Settle: You know Jeremy I have a rather unusual example of this, okay. I wrote an email about this many years ago that did pretty well. So I live in Oregon, where it rains a lot. I live in Oregon (inaudible 37:56.8) specifically. (inaudible 37:58.4) it rains like 80 inches of rain a year right. It is raining all the time. When I first got my dog, she got to go out. I take her out in the rain because I have to take her out and she was just pacing around, sniffing around while I am getting soak and then she get into the position like she is going to take a crap right like a rabbit looking position and then she would like not crap and then she starts sniffing around me and she did that 2 or 3 times. I am out there for 20 minutes during this (inaudible 38:24.2) And I was like what the hell -- I called it phantom poop like she is acting like she would poop and she did not. Well then it dawned on me -- it did not take a long to dawned on me that -- if I just wait to take her out when she really has to go when like it is like a periscope coming out of her ass (inaudible 38:41.5) it is coming out, she will go right away and I thought isn’t that how it is with selling, like most products (inaudible 38:49.1) are phantom pooping basically. They acting like they are going to buy. They did not look. They did not sniff around a little bit maybe they can see some other options but if you wait to actually pitch them when they are ready to buy it is a much easier to sell. So I think that goes in line with what Joe Polish is saying. Jeremy Reeves: Yeah, definitely and by the way, please tell me that you have written about that in email. Ben Settle: I did. I wrote about that. In fact, this is an example all the time when I get the (inaudible 38:49.1) because it makes the point. Jeremy Reeves: Yeah, it really does. It does. Well hey man, I have had a blast you know, I have learned a bunch. I am sure a lot of -- I am sure we have broken a lot of paradigms on this especially if you know anybody listening to this has not kind of been indoctrinated by the settle way. I hope you have kind of shifted some beliefs a little bit you know, I know your stuff gets really good results for a lot of different people in a lot of different industries you know. I always like to say that because people are like, oh my business is different and it is like, no, no. It is really not. Are you selling to (inaudible 39:51.5) yes. Okay, well no it is not. Ben Settle: Yeah. It is not different and you know what that is my whole goal on these things, is you give people options for thinking differently. They do not have to take my option but at least they know that it exist and if they want more they can you know, come to me for more of it. Jeremy Reeves: Yeah, yeah and speaking of that you know, before we hop off, tell everybody you know, where they can find you you know, what should they do if they resonate with your -- you know, your style? Ben Settle: Okay, well, they should go to bensettle.com and if you give me your precious email address. I am not going to promise I am not going to abuse it or anything, but I am going to mail you okay, but if you give me your address, I will send you the first issue of my 97$ a month “Email Players” newsletter which is a prestigious newsletter, but I will send you the PDF of the first issue obviously, like my autoresponder and there are 24 ways in there that you can start making more sales with email (inaudible 40:44.1) right away. People have told me they made tens of thousands of dollars just with that free issue, it is yours. If you do not give me your email address you can still click through the blog and there is like almost 2,000 pages of articles on there well over a dozen audio hours of audio and video training, all free. it is bensettle.com. Jeremy Reeves: Yeah and that will be in the show notes for everyone listening. So just you know, go in your phone and click in the show notes and you go right there. Ben it was a pleasure having you on. As always it was entertaining and educational. Thanks for coming on. Ben Settle: Thank you Jeremy. Good talking to you again too. Jeremy Reeves: Yep, you too. See you.

In this episode, the one RIGHT BEFORE MY VACATION... We'll talk about why I'm drinking Wild Turkey Bourbon and how a story sold me on it! And of course we'll dive deep into why stories work so incredibly well, and how to use them in various areas of your business to build a better relationship with your audience, have more fun, and sell a heckuva lot more! Resources Mentioned support@jeremyreeves.com Transcript Jeremy Reeves: Hey, what is going on guys and girls. This is Jeremy Reeves and you are listening to another episode of the Sales Funnel Mastery Podcast. And today, I am in a very, very good mood. I am actually sitting here drinking a little bit of Wild Turkey Bourbon, so I am very excited and feeling good. I am actually going to talk about that. Talk about why I am drinking that in a minute, right. So before that, a couple of things right. So number one, I am actually very excited because we -- my wife and I found out that we are having a boy, right. So child number 3 will be boy number 3. So there is going to be a lot of testosterone running around our house. My wife is very excited about that. Lots of fishing and camping and hiking trips and dirt and just disgustingness in our future which is awesome you know, I love that. I was cool with either of them you know, because if it was another boy you know, I have a blast with Connor and Logan and so I already know that I love you know, having boys you know, they are ton of fun and actually I just got home. I spent the whole day with them. And if it was a girl you know, then I would have gotten to experience that whole side of things you know, having a girl and kind of everything it goes along with that you know, daddy’s girl and all that kind of stuff and then all the hormones and craziness that happens during teenage years and all that. So anyway, we are having a boy. So we are very excited about that. We actually just got home from buying Logan a bed and because Connor and Logan are going to be you know, going into the same room and the baby will get you know, it is on separate room just you know, because when baby is crying it is not waking up the other boys and all that kind of thing. So that is number one. Number two is right after I record this which you are probably not going to hear this until you know, roughly Wednesday or so. It is usually when Andrea publishes it. I am going to be on vacation. I am going to be on vacation the whole week from about 3rd until the 9th. Actually, from right after I record this, it is Saturday, it is 5:19 on Saturday. So think about what you are doing in 5 o’clock on Saturday and I was recording this. So I am just taking the week off. Normally, I would not be this excited about taking vacation because I love what I do you know, I love waking up and writing copy for clients and putting together campaigns and all that kind of stuff, but I really, really needed a break because the last 6 weeks I have been -- I have been pushing very, very, very hard, basically, too hard. I actually ended up getting myself sick and that kind of thing which I normally do not do. There is just kind of a couple -- it was like a perfect storm situation. The whole bunch of things kind of came together at once and they just you know, it is one of those things where you got to just you know, I was talking about hustle a couple episodes ago and it was time, I just had the you know, bury my head and hustle you know what I mean. So I did that for 6 weeks and now I am you know, taking a break. Taking a mental break just to recharge my batteries. Spend more time with the family. I mean it is not like I do not already, but you know, spend some more time on stuff that I like to do you know. So this week, I will be, I am going to go hiking. I am going to go fishing. I am going to go golfing. Probably do a little day drinking. I am going to meditate and exercise a little bit longer than I normally do you know. Play some playstation and watch movies. I actually have a setup in my garage where it is a 100-inch projector screen setup out in my garage and it is a big fancy setup out there so I can actually like sit out there and have some Bourbon and a cigar and watch movie you know at night which is pretty bad ass. All my guy friends love coming over and hanging out in the garage. So you know, read a couple extra books you know, some novels this week you know, spend some time you know, with family and friends. I will probably do some -- probably smoke a pork butt. Have the guys over for couple of beers and pork butt stuff like that you know. A couple of day trips. We are going to go on -- and lots and lots of just good old plain shenanigans you know, just plain practical jokes with my wife which will be funny and stuff like that. So I am excited about it. So anyway, that was a very long way of getting to the main topic here which is stories, okay. Now what I just told you is a story and believe it or not, me going through what I just did is actually helping me make more sales, right. It is actually conditioning you to buy more from. And the reason is because the stories -- and I will get into this a little bit more. Stories are very good way of establishing a bond. Establishing like a connection with people. So you know, establishing a relationship. It is a good way to get people to trust you. If I tell you about my life right, if I tell you about the things that I am doing and the things I am excited about and the things that are hurting me you know, the things I am vulnerable with you know, the things that I am scared off, the things that I am excited about, the things that I am happy for, the things that you know, bring me joy, that kind of thing. Think about it. It makes me seem like more of a friend right, because you know me better. So who do you know the best. You know your best friend is the best you know. You know what makes them scared and what makes them excited and happy and playful and you know, whatever. So it is a good thing to do and that is why I tell you (inaudible 6:00.0) of stories you know what I mean. First of all, I just like telling them. You know, (inaudible 6:05.3) they are just -- they are just magical for making sales right. So I was telling you before when I first started, I am drinking some Bourbon, right. I was having some Bourbon. I am going to take a sip actually. Oh God, that is good stuff. So I am drinking Wild Turkey, right, and this is actually my first bottle of Wild Turkey. So if you like Bourbon by the way, check out Wild Turkey. It is very good. It is a very light kind of Bourbon. So if you are kind of new to Bourbon, it is not going to like there is -- I am just drinking straight Bourbon. I am not -- I mean there is no water, no ice cubes or anything. And it is smooth you know what I mean. As you just noticed I went from drinking it right to talking. It is very, very smooth Bourbon. It is very -- I think it is very good for like you know beginning kind of like a transition into Bourbon because sometimes it can be a little bit harsh you know what I mean. And the reason that I am drinking Wild Turkey right now is because of Matthew McConaughey, right, the actor. So basically, what happened was, I was on Facebook probably -- I do not know about a week ago, something like that and I saw a thing -- Matthew McConaughey, he is one of my favorite actors you know, first of all because he just does awesome movies and I also -- I have heard several different times that he is just a very like kind of cool down-to-earth person, so I always like that with people who are really big like that, that they keep their you know, just become down-to-earth they do not get all like pompous and frilly you know just annoying like the Kardashian’s. So anyway, so I am watching the video and basically he is going to be their essentially, their spokesperson. He calls himself the creative director of Wild Turkey, right. And he is going to tell their story. So I watch it was like this little 6 minute like documentary type of thing that he did with Wild Turkey and like they take you through the distillery, you do like this little virtual tour of the distillery and he has the owners on there and you know they are kind of just talking about how they got started, I think it was before prohibition where they got started and like that kind of thing. And it instantly made me want to buy their brand, right. And it is because of the origin story. That is called the origin story, right. Another example of this is, is I just did -- I just did a promotion for a client -- a client name Mark and we did a promotion and made -- we each made tons and tons of money which is awesome because I was doing a percentage of the sales so we each made a ridiculous amount of money which is you know, which is very cool obviously. And one of the reasons that that happened is that during this launch, we launched his origin story. It was actually right before the launch, right, and that was one of the ways that we generated some buzz like right before the launch you know, we got extra eyeballs on his business right before the launch and we did it through an origin story, right. And basically, it was him and he has some really crazy like video skills, so he kind of put the whole thing together, but it was basically just his story about how he started the company and the struggles that he went through and the struggles that they are going through now you know. And it kind of you know, his vision for the company and why he started it and you know, exactly like kind of who it helps and some stories from some of his customers and you know, like I just said, the vision you know, for his -- for the future and that kind of thing. And we got -- it was like, when he put it on Facebook, he was getting like 15% or 20% engagement rates in terms of like views to likes and shares you know what I mean. So like if it was a thousand views, he was getting like 200 likes for every thousand views which is insane you know, like that is really high and I mean tons of comments and people saying how you know, it changes life you know, by working with them and that kind of thing and it is just goes to show you the power of stories and it is like I said, when you tell stories, it kind of just -- it brings down the barriers in people’s minds because when you are telling story it does not sound like you are selling, right, and that is the important point. It does not sound like you are selling. I used stories all the time in the sales letters that we write and in webinars and things like that and it is because you know, it is because they sell just very well you know. And there are a lot of different types of stories and maybe I will get into that. I am actually for this webinar product that I am coming out with that I told you guys about. I already had the name. I am not going to say the name yet for a couple different reasons, but I will say that if you are even considering buying one in the near future, do not yet until mine comes out because I am telling you this thing is game changing. It is so freaking ridiculously awesome. I actually just sent it to somebody. He is a buddy of mine and I said, Hey, you know, I will send you what I have so far and like as I update things if you will send me feedback, right. So he is like, oh yeah, awesome, you know, we are actually going to put together a webinar soon anyway. So I send it to him and he wrote me an email back and he is like, holy God, this is freaking awesome. I forget his exact -- I forget the exact phrase that he -- this is so freaking cool. I do not know something like that, but he was blown away and he said, I literally do not even know anything that I can tell you to make this better because it is like perfect you know. And he got a very, very, very beta version. I actually work on it all day today. That was one of my conditions with my wife before taking vacation off. I said, I am just going to work -- there was a certain like kind of thing that I want to get done with that product and I said, I am just going to work until that is done. Soon that is done I am on vacation and I was until I forgot to record this podcast. So now I am just doing this real quick. But anyway, so in that training I am going through like kind of the story making process right, and -- but there is different ways that you can use your story, okay. And one of the ways that I love using stories is through email, right. And you know, there is -- I can do a podcast. I can probably do 10 podcast on stories and you know, maybe at some point I will come out with like a story telling course or something like that. I know after this webinar product, the next one I am going to do is an email course because I just feel like there are very few really good email courses out there. There are just a very, very small handful and they are just not good you know what I mean, but anyway, so I got an email from someone and I have got this a lot over the years. Just saying like that people -- when they got my emails, they came into my list just kind of check out what I was doing and got on my list and I get this compliment all the time, they are like -- once I started getting your emails, by like the 3rd day, I would actually wake up in the morning and would go to my computer waiting to find your email and they are like they would scroll down and look for the email that I was going to send that day, right. And that like -- can you imagine how powerful that is in your business? Can you imagine like what kind of bond is there you know for someone to say that, right. That is obviously -- and that is through email, like that is the most cold just like just machine like you know, way to connect with someone. Like there is no -- God, it is not even -- you know, I am talking to this guy personally now because you know, I love compliments like that. So we started conversation about it, but you know, he was telling me like, he was just you know, he kind of just wakes up and he cannot wait to actually read an email. And when you get -- that is the power of stories. When you can tell stories in the right way and make yourself so in tune with that person and bond with them so well through email that they cannot wait for you to sell them something. That is a really, really good position to be in, right. So you know, what are the ways -- I guess, you know, for a more -- before I hop off here for like a very practical way of doing this, right. Here is my kind of template, right for writing emails, okay. So basically, you start -- I am trying to think of an example. Maybe I will try to write one off the top of my head and I will give you an example here. I did not plan on doing this, but maybe I will try to do and just off the top of my head, I will look around the room, right. So basically, you start off with a story, okay, and then you transition into the lesson of that story, okay. And then, after you transition into lesson, then you transition into how that lesson like basically why they should buy your product because of that lesson. So we will do something like this, right. So I am going to try (inaudible 15:20.6) right off on top of my head. So let us see, so we just came from a pumpkin patch so you know, alright, here is the email, right. I probably cannot come up with the subject right off on the top of my head. Number one because I am a little bit tired because it is 5:30 and I work from 6 until 2 and then basically went right from there to a pumpkin patch to buy Logan a bed and now we are home and I am drinking, so my brain is not exactly going full speed here. So here is the story right. So subject line (inaudible 15:55.5) hey that is the subject line or you know, cool story could be the subject line. So it could start off with something like, you know, hey first name. So I just got back from a pumpkin patch with my kids, right. Just got back from a pumpkin patch with my kids. You know, it is a yearly tradition that I take with my family. Every single year we go up to the same place. We get on wagon. We go and we find the pumpkins. My wife gets apple cider donuts that she loves because they (inaudible 16:30.0) seriously like the best donuts ever. So especially now that she is 21 weeks pregnant. She especially likes the donuts. And I what I just said could actually be in parenthesis. You could put a little joke in there, right. It helps create bonding. It also demonstrates your personality you know and people that like your personality will cling to you more. People who do not like your personality will kind of go away and you want them to go away anyway, right. And then you start bringing into lesson, right. So you start to kind of introduce a lesson. So you could say, you know, while we are riding on you know, on the wagon you know, the wagon is really bumpy you know, this is big huge wagon. There is no shocks on it. You are going through this big pumpkin patch. There are ruts. There are ditches. There are bumps so you are bouncing around on this wagon and as we were doing that something you know, a thought occurred to me and that thought was, isn’t it funny that this wagon ride is very similar to what most entrepreneurs go through you know. You get in the wagon. You are really excited and you start moving. Everything is great for the first couple feet and then all of the sudden you hit some bumps you know, you hit some road blocks. You hit some curves in the road. You hit some things that are stopping your progress and bouncing you around and all of the sudden you do not know where to turn. You do not know what to do you know, you are holding for dear life just trying to keep your business moving forward and like do you see where this is going to start to go. So that is the lesson right. So then you move in to the transition and you can say, look you know, and let us just say, I am going to pretend that I am selling this webinar product, right, so that will be the product that we are going to sell in this email, okay. So you could say, you know look, you are probably going through that right now. You know, you are selling a high ticket service and you know, you are really excited. Every time you get a sale you are super excited, but then the in between spots are what kills you, you know. The in between spots are where you get that fear and that concern for you know, because you are hitting road blocks way too often. You are bouncing around way too much from thing to thing to thing. You are really never you know, moving forward and that is not what you want. You want a more straight path. You want a path you know, to get right to you know, the pumpkin patch so to speak rather than going around turns and you know, going over bumps and getting bruises and you know, getting thrown around the cart that kind of thing. And that is what my product helps you with you know, rather than you trying to figure it out on your own and beating yourself up and you know, dwindling down your cash account and you know losing most of your money in testing and spending you know, spending 4 times as long to get there. I am going to show you the straight path to go right from where you are now right to being able to sell your high-ticket product without any of that you know, that negative stuff you know. So like you can see you know, obviously, the copy is not perfect, right, but even what I just said, as I am you know, half of the bag and doing it off on top of my head is probably better than most people’s emails that they are using to sell their services, right. And what is really cool about that is that you can send an email like that every single day of your life and people will not get annoyed by it because you are still selling your product, but do you see how it is positioned differently, right. Most people it is like hey, do you have, you know, are you suffering from this? Are you you know, do you ever deal with this? Do you ever blah.. blah.. why don’t you buy my product and it is so awesome and blah.. blah.. right. That is the typical email versus mine where you are still resonating with the struggles that they are going through. Do you see how I did that? You are still resonating but you are telling it through a story, right. You are telling it through an experience. So not only are you accomplishing that same level of resonation we’ll call it, the same level of bonding, but you are actually taking it a step further because you are telling them something about your life. You are telling them a story. Another big part of this is that they are actually going to read it, right, and that is obviously important because if you are sending these emails every single day that it is just, oh hey, buy my product. Here is why. Buy my product, here is why. You hear about blah.. blah.. Like it is the same thing every day. They are going to open it. They are going to see it is the exact same format, delete. They are not even going to read it. Whereas if you tell a story, people get sucked into stories. They want to know what happens, right. If you are telling a story about how you took your kids to the pumpkin patch you know, very few people are going to start reading that and not care, right, because if they like you which stories are very good way to get people to like you. If they like you, they are going to care what happens right. As I was telling that story you guys probably care you know what I mean. It actually turned out that my little one, Logan. He is -- so Connor, this is really quick like kind of side note. Connor is very, very like unbelievably sweet kid, right. He is our 5-year-old. He is the one with autism. He is unbelievably sweet you know. He is the one that comes up to you and tells you that your hair looks beautiful and like you know, that you look really nice today and that kind of thing. Logan is different. He is just one of those kids that just has his own personality and he does not give too freaking shits if you like it or if you do not and he just is who he is and I love that about him because he is so independent and he just is who he is and he has no apologies for it. On the other hand, sometimes, it drives you nuts right, as you know, anybody listening to this if you have kids you know, probably one of them is like that. So you know where I am coming from, but anyway, so he, of course, rather than picking a typical orange pumpkin with the stem, he picks the green one and it was just so typical of him that -- my wife and I were laughing. So going back to stories you know, that is kind of like the story template that you can use and again like in the future I think I am going to come out with something like that because you just make, I mean it just the way that you can bond with your audience is so much better you know, than just like these generic emails. Hey buy my thing. Here is why. Oh, here are the benefits you know, blah.. blah.. With stories you know like I said, you can still resonate with your audience on what they are struggling with, but you do it through a story, right. So yeah, so that is it today you know, the big lesson here is you know, what I want you to work on this week is -- you know, look at the emails that you are sending out to your audience you know. Are they engaging? Are they really helping establish a bond you know. You guys know that I am very much about trust, right. Not only being trustworthy as a person, right, but you know, I am trying to think of like, having a little brain fry here, but just being building trust in your marketing you know what I mean, and stories are one of the best ways to do that you know, like I always say, if you want someone to like you right, basically, all you have to do is tell them stories and be vulnerable, right. The more vulnerable you are, the more people are going to like you because everybody has vulnerable spots in their life, right. And when you are vulnerable, and you can do that through stories. I do that -- one of my -- my one story about how my wife fell down the steps when she is pregnant with Connor, right, because she has seizures. She has seizure falling on the steps and I caught her coming down the steps. That story, like that is in my autoresponder, I get probably -- I get more responses to that email probably by a factor of 5 than any other email in my autoresponder and I have like, I do not know, probably 100 in my autoresponder, right. And it is because of that vulnerability, right. So, anyway, so if you guys like this subject, let me know. Because I can kind of go into more details and give you more examples and stuff like that. Maybe I will come out with a course for it, I do not know. We will see if you know, if there is enough response to it, but let me know. Just shoot me an email support@jeremyreeves.com. I would not get it this week. When I take a vacation, I am fully unplugged like as soon as I -- basically, when I click end for this, wow (inaudible 25:03.4) way longer than I thought. When I click end for this, I am going to upload it into Dropbox and Andrea is going to get it and then I am officially done. I am officially on vacation. So at the end of this, I will be officially done for about a week, about 8 or 9 days or whatever it is, but yeah, anyway, so if you enjoyed this let me know because you know, I always like to hear you know, what topics you guys enjoy you know and I think you know, telling stories is just such a powerful way of making sales and building a bond with your audience you know and so I can maybe I will put something together, probably closer to next year I would say you know, I will kind of figure out when to do it but yeah and we can talk about it more on podcast and all that kind of fun stuff. But for now, I am going to hop off because I am going to go, enjoy my vacation. I am going to go, enjoy some relaxing time and basically doing nothing, right. And I am very, very excited about that because my mind has been on overdrive for the last 6 weeks so I need a break. So I love you guys. I will talk to you when I am back and in the meantime, look through your you know, whatever emails that you are sending out and see if you can upgrade them by adding stories in there you know. Yeah, that is my big -- that is my big lesson here for today. So go and do that. Otherwise, if you enjoy this you know, you are not paying for this, remember. I just spent 26 minutes of my vacation to do this for you. So do me a favor, share it with somebody. Give us a review on iTunes, that would be the biggest compliment you could possibly give me because that helps grow the audience and the more audience grows, the more I want to do this, right. So go ahead and do that now. Do not be a wanker. Go and you know, do your responsibility and give us a review, alright, and a good one. No. Give us whatever you think it deserves. But anyway, have a good one. I will talk to you next time and yeah and go on and do some stories in your business. It is really good. See you.

In this episode, we chat with Chris Brogan. Chris is a LEGEND in the industry. He shows businesses how to grow their revenue and the loyalty of their customers & clients by infusing authenticity into everything they do. In this interview we talk about ways to do that, stories from his past and how to do this in your business to create an authentic culture that creates loyal, raving fans! Resources Mentioned stevegarfield.com chrisbrogan.com owner.media Transcript Jeremy Reeves: Hey what is going on guys and girls. Jeremy Reeves here with another episode of The Sales Funnel Mastery Podcast. And on the line today and on video as you can see, we have Chris Brogan. Chris is basically (inaudible 0:27.9) in one word, he is a rockstar. When it comes to you know, growing businesses and especially kind of focusing on using the social aspect of doing that, he is a total bad ass. Really quick kind of couple bullet points of him. He is a sought after speaker. He has spoken for, I mean, all kinds of different you know, all kinds of different people which of course he can talk about in a minute. He is a New York Times best-selling author with 8 books and is coming out this night -- Chris I want to talk you about that one because I am actually a big gamer myself, so I am going to be interested in that one. He has spoken -- consulted with everywhere from you know, small brands all the way to big companies, Disney, Coke, Google, GM, Microsoft, and about a thousand other big names like that. He has appeared on the Dr. Phil Show. He has interviewed Richard Branson for a cover story for Success Magazine and we can go and on like this for the next like half hour. But Chris, how are you buddy? Chris Brogan: Jeremy, glad to be here. Thanks for having me on your show. Jeremy Reeves: Yeah, yeah. It is my pleasure. I have known about you for years now. I have followed your work for a long time and so it is kind of cool to you know, to get you on video and you know, see and kind of dig into your mind a little bit and see how you work. Chris Brogan: Thrilled to be part of it and it is kind of fun because you know I have been doing my research about you and making sure that you are the Jeremy that I thought you were because that name is really familiar and I go ahead to dig a little bit, I am like, oh yeah, okay. It is interesting because a lot of what you have done with copy but also then with the mechanics underneath it. I am always the higher end of the sales funnel not the lower end so (inaudible 2:09.9) how people convert you know. A lot of my shenanigans are nonsense. So I think that is really cool. Jeremy Reeves: Nice. Chris Brogan: It is a complimentary pairing one might say (inaudible 2:18.2). Jeremy Reeves: Yeah. So you know, tell everybody like what, you know, what it is you do basically you know. If someone were to say, Hey Chris, you wake up in the morning and you are going to help us solve you know, grow -- basically grow a business you know, what is the approach that you take. What is your philosophy on helping people grow? Chris Brogan: Sure. I mean a lot of it really boils down to is helping people connect with what they already have and who they already are and then really leveraging that to find the people that they most want to serve and then helping them find out how to grow the capabilities and connections to do that. I find that a lot of times where we go a little (inaudible 2:52.7) in business is we kind of try to be someone who we are not. We try to go after people that we do not really know or do not understand and we try to you know, spend a lot of our calories and our time in fields where we do not normally spend our time in general. So it comes off in authentic. It comes off as a struggle. It comes off as -- there is some kind of a disconnect and there is a little lack of integrity there. If people use integrity in the wrong way, they tend to use it to (inaudible 3:18.6) something very noble, but it just means integratedness. Hitler had a lot of integrity. He just you know, put in the direction we did not want it. When I say that people are lacking in integrity, I really mean the integratedness of what they are saying they are into and where they spend it real time. And so a lot of times you know, when I speak to a company for instance, if I go into a healthcare company one time right around the time President Obama just got elected, they said to me we want what he had. How do we get more people to talk to (inaudible 3:50.3) he had people talking to him via social channel and stuff and I say, well, first off, you have to find ways to invite people that want to have that conversation. You have to talk to them about what they really want to talk about which is likely (inaudible 4:03.2) know what you want to talk about. You have to kind of get him there. And so it become a messy business. What I do with the companies and/or you know with individuals because a lot of times I am calling them on the parts that they want to hide or I am calling them on the -- it is like having a weird relative over for a dinner. You know they are going to say something weird. You know they are going to offend somebody, but they actually have some value to them and I guess what I am trying to show everyone is that their weird relative might actually be the winner in their experience and that in all businesses in all sizes the do not lie. If we could be a lot closer to who we really intend to be then we might have a lot better swing of it instead of kind of living underneath. The fear that we have to fake our way through something. Jeremy Reeves: Yeah, yeah. I love that. And you know, there is a lot of -- I know a lot of people that are, that are overweight for example and instead of being ashamed about it and you know, they kind of try to cover it up, they just owned it, you know what I mean. Melissa McCarthy is a good example of that. The actress, you know, she just owns who she is and she is -- I love her movies. She is so funny. I think that is a good example, but take that and use it for business you know. Whoever you are as a person, whatever your personality is, do not try to hide that even it is you know, negative thing you know, I think the more that you can really understand that and bring it to light, that is what makes people attracted to you, you know what I mean. I think especially -- there is a term in copywriting called the damaging admission you know, essentially just taking something that is perceived as a bad thing, but you twist it into a good thing you know, I think that is huge you know. Is that what your you know, when you are working with companies and helping them with their social strategies is that basically what you help them like uncover, is what those pieces are and then how to you know, bring that to the community, to people who are serving? Chris Brogan: I have not done anything social with the company since I think 2010, but a lot of times when I work with companies, it is bend down to sort of their sale strategy, their business strategy, their content mostly. A lot of times, content marking which I guess some people lump into social, but I see it is a sort of blend. I am not a direct sales copywriter. I do not believe in you know, I am never going to have (inaudible 6:22) killer anything (inaudible 6:24) and I agree on a lot of things, but I do not ride his way. So I would say that what I am often doing is trying to just to spill out you know, we rush the tactics or we rush the ways to you know, sort of leverage parts of our business. I am trying to find is there more holistic way sometimes. Is there a way that you know, it is how we love you in spite but we love you because kind of stuff. So with that, I might make that in the content. So I might say here is -- here might be a good editorial calendar to lay this out. I might talk about email marketing strategy, that is one of my favorite tools of all the business tools is email marketing pain because I feel like you know, it was done so poorly for a lot of the less 20 or 30 years. There is nowhere to go, but up and so I help with that. A lot of times also it is you know, how do we harness the word of mouth type stuff that is going on in a much more organic way. How do we do something that is a lot more experiential as opposed to stuff that fits nicely on a spreadsheet. And you know, pretty much if I did not think about it Jeremy, 80% of what I do is make people who like spreadsheets unhappy. (inaudible 7:35.7) because a lot of it does not fit nicely in a column, but then it shows up you know, the revenue does show up. I mean, I only have 2 measures in any kind of business project that work with people. I only have 2 measures, one is dollar signs and one subscribers you know. That is a pretty baseline kind of business to run in a world that still thinks that this is somehow good or useful you know. I check with my bank and they do not care what my klout score is. That is why I do not do a lot of social media stuff such as they were. I just need those tools to make business move forward. Jeremy Reeves: Okay, I got you. So you are going after the you know how to actually turn into sales and not just -- I totally agree you know, a lot of people are, Oh, I got you know, 300 likes or you know, 20,000 likes or whatever it is, like okay, well how many sales did you make you know. How many beliefs did you change you know, that are going to turn into sales, those kind of things. So tell me about your new book. I am kind of excited to hear about that. Chris Brogan: Yeah. One of several -- it is funny, as you were saying that, give me a sec, hmm.. I need to edit my bio. Jeremy Reeves: The video game book. Chris Brogan: So this idea it will probably morph a little bit. I am very (inaudible 8:46.1) in the video games. I play a lot on Xbox for my platform. I have no particular preference that is just (inaudible 8:52.3). I was a Halo guy, (inaudible 8:53.8) who had the platform. But in the process when I was coming from, what I was learning was, there is a lot of ways to see what it comes out in video games that you can then graft onto real life business pursuit you know. There is a lot of people in business that just kind of show up to work. There are trying to figure out how they are going to get their 3% every year. They are just you know, everyday is the same as the last day. So they do not work with this concept of objectives. They do not work with the concept that there are systems in scoring in place that they do not even normally see because work feels like an open world environment. Like if you are a sales guy, you know, all you are seeing is did I or didn’t I make more sales, but they are not taking of what if I give you 20 cold calls a day or whatever you know, cold call is everyone’s most hated thing. What if I made it 20 a day instead of whatever you are doing now, 2, 5, none. So that idea comes from video games, because in video games, there are things like bounties or objectives or you know, today you are going to get 5 kills with a shotgun or something. For me, it is so -- if you pull the shenanigans of video games into the real world, I still see that there is some really cool overlays that you can do that will make business work a lot better. And so I am always excited to try to extrapolate that kind of life lesson and advice. I also think that there are ways to make your own game. So that even if the game systems says, the way you win is to get you know, more tags than the other team or whatever it is, capture the flag more often, whatever it is. There are other ways for you to win because you can say, well, you know, I am not ever going to be the number 1 guy. I am just not that kind of a player. I am a good support guy or whatever it is. So then you start saying well, what if I did 7 of this or whatever you know. I think that there are so many ways that we can improve ourselves using the systems in the (inaudible 10:41.5) inherent in the video game that we do not even think about. Anything is boring with Pacman and Tetris, it has systems in it. And I think that if we talk about systems you and I some of us will fall asleep, but if we talk about video games then I can sort of sneak the broccoli inside the cake (inaudible 10:58.5) this is broccoli cake. Jeremy Reeves: Nice. And I actually wrote -- this is several years ago, but probably like 3 or 4 years ago, but I actually, if you have ever follow the launches of games. They are absolutely brilliant marketers in the way that they just -- they create such engaged fans and like, you cannot wait -- I know like there is a couple of games that I cannot wait to come out coming out in September and October right, and like I am so excited I am like sitting you know, I cannot wait until they come out and it is because of the way that they pre-launched their games and it is like -- a lot of times it is like a 6 to 9 or 12 month you know, it is like a little drip here and there and then they show and they do previous of the game and they have like, they will have discussions about it about what is going to be new and all that. So there is a lot to learn even from the way that they launch the games too you know and then once you get inside there is even more. Chris Brogan: Absolutely. Jeremy Reeves: If anybody likes video games like you know, the geeks that Chris and I are, definitely look at them and while you are playing, you know, you might as well pull some marketing insights from it you know. So if you have to you know, you have worked with all types of companies you know, small businesses, huge businesses, all that kind of thing, if there was -- if you are going into a business and you could look out like if there was 1 factor that helps people grow that it is like, okay, you are going to do X and that is your like, it is kind of like a guaranteed win, what would you look for in that kind of company whether it is -- and if you can do it, maybe it is different for the small and big companies, but you know, what are your thoughts on that? Chris Brogan: You know what, to me Jeremy, it is always the same, any size company and I think I might have stolen a little of this from the perspective of Richard Branson or rather when I write this book (inaudible 12:50.1) I had this realization that wow, this thought that I had that I thought it was wrong for thinking, that is what he says and you know, sometimes it happens where someone outside of us will verify or you know, validate us and will go, ahh.. I am (inaudible 13:06.4). So the idea is really simple. This is exactly what Branson said. Branson said, this can work on all scales you know, a business idea can work on all scales and that is why I stole. And so the idea is just to connect and serve and so you know, you see on the side of police car is to protect and serve. So I think you know, to connect and serve because I think that what is most missing in most businesses of all sides, little guy doing a lawn you know has his you know, little (inaudible 13:36.1) and he wants to mow more lawns all the way up to Viacom and Sony electronics USA. We fall behind the mechanics of systems. We fall behind the idea that you know, if I do this enough times in a row, I am going to expect this kind of scenario and when it does not work, we do not know what to blame so we blame the systems or we blame processes way outside of us or whatever you know, whatever (inaudible 14:00.8) guide is not working, the real (inaudible 14:03.7) about any diet is it works if it is the right diet for you, you know, because you apply, you have to do the work and so when it comes to this idea of connect and serve, service is the basis of all good business, all good business. 100% of business is based on service. I will say a really random example. I like watches from this company Shinola. They have a bunch of other business lines as well, but they started with watches in Detroit. So I got this watch, it is not a whole lot of money, it is like a $500 watch you know, I never going to wear this and someone go whoo.. (inaudible 14:38.2) But if people know the story, it is a story of sort of revitalizing Detroit and this company is American made. All the parts are American and like all the you know, good stuff about taking in a city that has been on its back feet and putting it back together again. This is so random. I twit yesterday, dear Shinola, I love you. That is all. They twit back. Dear Chris Brogan. We love you too. I did not expect much. I just wanted to say it because I was (inaudible 15:06.1) because I was looking at my watch which is strangely not in my wrist during the (inaudible 15:09.7). But you know, I love just that little piece of touch and that little piece of touch stretches me a lot further. My buddy Steve Garfield, he runs the stevegarfield.com. He said, I was travelling back to Portland, Maine. I was just up on a vacation with my fiancé and he said, oh, you got to go to this place. I think it is called the Slab it is a pizza place. He goes, “Man, I love it. I had a great time. I shot some photos. I had them up on my Facebook. The guy who rans it came over and said, (inaudible 15:36.6) on my Facebook page” or whatever. That is -- to me, the social media tools are (inaudible 15:41.1) is the fact that an owner can reach out to customer and validate his enthusiasm for a place and then turns that guy into a full on raging fan. So that works at huge companies as well as small companies you know. I had a problem with a regional pizza company around here because my son wanted desperately for me to order from there as many times as I have told him we have had horrible times in the past and he was like, no please, I really like their food and I am like, I do not care that you like it, it is just that, they never going to come to our hose. So against my better judgment. I call. I make the order. 40 or so minutes go by and then (inaudible 16:19.1) 30 and I call them. They say, yeah, we ran out of -- I forgot what it was like buffalo wings or something that we order. We ran out of them so we are going to call you back and ask you what you want as a dip. I say, well first up, it is 40 minutes. You are like, you are 10 minutes past when that food should be in my mouth, but second like you are going to call me -- again, regional pizza company who is like 100 of stores and advertises (inaudible 16:47.7) what a bunch of poop heads, right. So (inaudible 16:51.1) this story on stage forever. So, Jeremy, that is such a long answer, but I want the passion to show like I wanted to show that any size company can do the simple as be and connect with the people that it hopes to serve and to serve them. My needs are not met by this giant regional pizza company. The local guy across the street who makes far less superior pizza will actually bring it to the house for my kid. So that is how it is going to go. So I guess if you could (inaudible 17:20.0) then none of that is a tactic. It is just pure commitment. It is commitment to the people who are going to give you their money and it is commitment to say, I am going to keep being there for you like a bad 90’s Bon Jovi song and I am going to just keep delivering on the promise that I made to you and I think that it is such a fundamental to business Jeremy and so many people are failing on that and going after should I or should not I implement the content marketing platform. Jeremy Reeves: Yeah, yeah. I love it. Yeah, it is a brilliant words you know and it is very true you know what I mean. It is just the amount of caring that goes into a lot of businesses anymore it is just you know, subpar. It is too transactional you know what I mean versus actually caring about who you are serving in trying to help people you know and that is what business is all about you know. Chris Brogan: And you travel Jeremy? How many times -- do you have a bad airline experience? How many -- Jeremy Reeves: Every time. Chris Brogan: How many times does the hotel not the way you wish they would be. I mean, there is a whole system of experiences that you touch in your day or you can say to me, I am sure those people do not care about much about me. And I think that if I have made in my life work to keep helping companies figure out the way they implement that, that I will have a long career because so few companies are doing it. Jeremy Reeves: Yeah, yeah. It makes you stand out. Even if -- it is kind of just you know, being a good person if you just do the basic things that you know, apparently, parents used to teach, but they don’t anymore. You know, I am just being polite, being you know, curious, being on time you know, it is just it stands out just doing that. I mean, I think that should be like just the basic minimum threshold, but apparently, it is not anymore you know, and the same thing with business you know, everything that you just mentioned you know. Yeah, it is not rocket science. It is just the -- just do it. Chris Brogan: And you know, it does not always fit into a nice graphic or it does not always look great on a slide somewhere, but I think that, there are ways to implement it in day-to-day and I think that that is another thing that sets it apart from some of the advice that were being given out there Jeremy. Look at some of the other episodes of shows, not yours, but around the space and look at the sort of -- you just got to hustle. You just got to go for it you know. I have nothing against the word hustle. I just think that that is like saying you have got to have rubber tires on your car or it will not move anywhere. I think there is a lot more of having a car than -- and I think you need a really good engine. Jeremy Reeves: Yep. Absolutely. Well, hey, we are coming up on time here. So you know if anybody wants to reach out, what is the best way to get in touch with you to you know, work with you, to buy your books you know, which book would you recommend, I know you have a bunch you know. Let us know how to you know, how to get more Chris Brogan. Chris Brogan: Thank you. I just published a brand new book called Find Your Writing Voice. It came out a couple of days before you and I recorded this. The easiest way is either chrisbrogan.com or if that sounds hard to spell go to owner.media either way I can help you and connect in. I always tell people the same thing which is grab my newsletter because if you connect with my newsletter, if you feel like that makes sense to you and resonates with you then you like what I do and if you don’t you are going to not like anything I do, so do not bother. Jeremy Reeves: Yeah, yeah. It is a good point. Alright, well, hey, it was a pleasure having you on and I kind of e-meeting you here and you know, good luck with everything you are doing. Chris Brogan: We will do it face-to-face sometime Jeremy. Thank you so much.

In this episode, we introduce "the random rant" where I choose 5 topics, usually related to marketing, sometimes not, that I'm thinking about most and rant about them! Enjoy and let me know what you think! Transcript Jeremy Reeves: Hey guys and girls what is going on. Jeremy here with another episode of the Sales Funnel Mastery Podcast, and happy freaking Monday. I am really, really pump this week to get stuff done. I just realized that you are probably not going to be listening to this on Monday. So happy roughly Wednesday or Thursday. Hopefully your week is going as good as mine, it is by the middle of the week. So today, I want to try something new, okay. You know, a lot of times we do this and as you know, you know, there are like the interview shows or I interview somebody and then there are the kind of me shows where I talked about something cool and tell you how to do something, right. But there are also a lot of topics that like, that I want to cover right, but do not -- I do not really want to do a whole episode on them. So I am going to call it the random rant you know podcast or show or whatever you want to call it, right. So I am going to do every couple of weeks basically what I am feeling, what I am feeling a little bit you know, frisky, when I am feeling a little bit energetic about certain things. A lot of them are going to be mindset things you know, that type of thing or just stupid shit that people are doing that they should not be. I am going to talk you know, about those things okay. So I am going to do 5 of them and yeah today is going to be the first one. So let me know how you like this you know, if it kind of pumps you up, if it gets you inspired, they are going to be more of like inspirational rather than how to. And let me know, just shoot me an email support@jeremyreeves.com if you like it or if you hate it, it is totally fine if you hate it. I want to hear that too. I do not really care if you do not like it. I am not one of those people that only wants to hear good feedback. I also want to hear the bad because that is the only way to get better in life is to hear the good and the bad. So let me know if you like or hate this or don’t really care at all. That is also a fine thought. Alright, so the first one is about hustling, okay. I cannot tell you, you know, you guys know that I am all about freedom right. I am all about building your business so that it supports your lifestyle okay, rather than building your business and your business is like the only thing in your life that you love and you are passion about because I think that is really, really shallow life to live, right. Now a lot of people might hear that and think that I do not work hard, right. They might hear that and think that I am you know, I am kind of you know, promoting like a lazy lifestyle and that is not it. So I want to kind of clarify what I, you know, what my thoughts are about hustling in life and in business, right. So the way that you know, my philosophy on working hard, hustling that kind of thing is that you should -- number 1 your business should not -- you should not only have 1 passion in your life, in my opinion. I mean, I just feel like you know, these people that are -- all they do is work and that is their passion. I just feel like it is such a horrible way to live because how like shallow of a life is that if you only love 1 thing you know what I mean and I always say like, you know, I have my business. I am actually going on vacation from the October 3rd to 9th. I will be back for 10th and I am actually doing like a staycation, right. We are not actually going anywhere. If anybody has young kids, you know how much our pain in the ass it is to go on vacation with. It is really more stressful than actually staying and working. So I am actually doing a staycation. So I am going to do a whole bunch of stuff. I am going to go hiking a couple of times. I am going to go fishing. I am going to work on building something I do not even know what yet you know, I am going to get back into -- I used to be really into you know, waxing cars you know, keep like detailing cars.. So I am going to get back into that, I just bought a whole big kit and a whole bunch of stuff, right. So I am going to get back into that you know, just kind of like take a bunch of me time you know, meditate a lot you know, that kind of thing and just be totally unplugged for about a week, right. So anyway, you know, when I am talking about hustle, right, you know, I feel like people would need to build the business that supports their lifestyle and that allows you the freedom to do other things that you want. Now, that does not mean that you only work a couple of hours a day and then you know, and you barely work, right. What I mean by this is that you work your freaking tail off and then you know, for shorter period of time, right, very, very, very focused work. Very hard -- think about like sprint or marathon you know, most people that work long hours are not focused. They are not productive right. Let me put it this way, right. When I am in a really focus -- now you know, of course, not every day is like this. Nobody is perfect every single day, but you know, say 3 to 4 out of 5 days a week, by the time I get to lunch, right now, I am up I wake up at 5:45 okay, I am at my desk by about 6, I just wake up and I have a little like green strength that I make and tee right. I used to do coffee like 2 cups of coffee a day but I have had a heartburn really bad since I am like 16 years old and it is just -- the coffee just does not blend well with that, so I only have 1 cup a day now and I replaced that with tea and my heartburn has you know, dramatically gone down. I am actually in the process of -- I have taken Prilosec literally every single day since the 16 years old. So whatever that is like 15 or 14 years because I am 30 now. So I am trying you know, not do that because it is really not good. So I am weaning myself off over the next year or so. So I am just chopping off -- I have a really sharp knife at my desk like you know, just -- like a switchblade, it is actually that was it, it is Kershaw SpeedSafe called. A really good knife and I actually like cut the Prilosec right. So anyway, so I am going off on the rant, but -- so I wake up and you know, I am at my desk by 6 and I work really, really focus, really, really intensely until about 11 o’clock, right, so 5 hours, buy the time 11 o’clock comes around, I am fried like my brain is -- I want to take a nap because that is how hard I am working alright. I believe that you should work shorter hours but really, really, really intense hours right. That is when I do most of my writing. Now I do a lot of writing because I am you know, writer and between copy like my client work and like you know, now we are coming out with this webinar course or high-ticket course I should say. It is not just about webinars. High-ticket course you know, hopefully, next month, I will update you on that. I am probably going to start do a waiting list soon. I will keep you posted on that. You know, my days are split between copy work and working on that and then I am going to have to put together a webinar to sell you know, the product and that kind of thing. So you know, 11 o’clock comes around. I worked out, then I eat. So by the time all that is done, it is roughly you know, 12:30 or so. I usually make a good lunch. I love to cook and I cook myself a lunch and dinner every single day. So you know, and then the afternoons, I do -- if I am in a rush, I will kind of force myself to write more copy, but in most days it is more of stuff like you know, keeping clients posted and like doing stuff like this podcast. Now I am doing this in the morning just because I am really excited, but doing stuff where it is like a little bit less brain activity, right. It is a little bit less, I do not have to be quite as focused you know what I mean. If I am you know, going through like making tweaks to something like a copy edits are a little bit easier than you know, writing the copy in the first place that kind of thing. So the afternoon is kind of dedicated to less brain intense activities right, and I work until 2:30 or 3:00 o’clock everyday and that is it, right. Typically, I do not work nights and if I do work nights, it is more of like planning the next that kind of thing. So I go through a planning routine and I do that either at the end of the day or at night, but that is not long, it is like 10 minutes to plan the next day, that kind of thing, right. So as you could see like it is not that -- I think it is like 9 hours a day or whatever. If you include the workout at lunch, it is only like 7 or like it is about 7-1/2, right. And you know, but people are, people are afraid to do that you know, people, oh my God, I work you know 60 hours a week, 70 hours a week, 80 hours a week and it is like, alright, that is great, but how many of those hours you actually productive. How many of those hours are you actually moving towards the goal like you are actually making progress on something and I guarantee you if you are working more than 7 or 8 hours a day, I guarantee you at least 50% of those hours are extremely unproductive, right. Either in the fact that you are doing the wrong activities, right. You are doing the wrong things to move you towards the goal or you are just not productive. You are on Facebook you know, as you are writing something, you are getting distracted. You have your employees you know, interrupting you that kind of thing, right. So I just want you to think about that and think of how you know, where can change, right. And you know, it is like -- people are just afraid to put into work you know. There is also a thing like I am at the place where I have already put in the work. I have already put in the hours, the nights, the weekends you know, I was working when I was 13 years old literally shoveling horse shit, literally. I am not even -- that is not even an exaggeration. That was actually my job. At 13 years old, we are shoveling horse shit, right, into bags and then I would carry those bags into the woods. Now I remember, we lived in like you know, rural Pennsylvania, so this is like normal up here. There was a big farm. So you know, carry it and throw the bag in like a giant (inaudible 10:14.2) in the middle of the forest. I am not even 100% sure if it is legal now that I think about it, but that what she did you know. And you know, and I would do that and then it was a farm so like I would cut the grass. I would you know, take care of everything and she told me that I was the fastest worker she has ever had in her life because she paid me, I go up and she would say, okay, you have to do ABC, I am going to give you $20 and you know, just tell me when you are done and I was like, alright, well, she is giving me $20 regardless if it would takes a half hour or 3 hours, so I might as well just do it fast and I would literally sprint. Again, I am not exaggerating. I would literally sprint from each you know, activity like, when I had the you know, the horse shit in the wheelbarrow, right, carrying it to the woods, I would actually run with this wheelbarrow, with like 150 pounds in it. Now when I was 13, I was a scrawny little kid, right. So super, super heavy for me. And I would actually run through the woods with it. And yeah, so that is what I mean hustle you know. When -- do not think in terms of you know, if you are one of these people that is like, oh my God, I work so much. I work so much. I work so much. That might be you know, some kind of conditioning that you think it is a good thing to work a lot, right. Whereas, there are tons and tons of studies now. I think it is Switzerland, maybe. They just move to like a 30/hour work week like it is proven that working more than, I think it is like 6 hours a day is no more productive than working less than 6 hours a day you know what I mean. So really like look at -- if you are one of these people and listen, it is totally fine. I used to be -- I used to kind of you know, get off on that too, oh my God, I work so much and now it is like (inaudible 12:02.2) I think it is an awesome thing when you can say, hey, I got all these done and it is only 11 o’clock, right. So just you know, kind of challenge the notion that working you know, working big quantity of hours is a good thing and you know, kind of reverse that and say, alright, how can I do the exact same amount of work in less time, right, and that is kind of your homework for the day. Okay, so that is hustle. And that is kind of like my thoughts on what I think about you know, freedom and working and that kind of thing, right. Number 2, guessing why things are not working, alright. So I am working with the client right now. And I am actually -- so we are basically going out. We are doing a joint venture funnel which is a different one, right. So he is a painter, right. Really, really, really high-end painter. He is like 4 times the price of like a normal painter. And what we are doing for his marketing is he gets most of his job by referral, right. Like he is not going to go out and advertise because the client tell that he is doing this in million dollar you know, 10 million dollar or 100 million dollar homes, right. He has projects that are in the several hundred thousand dollar range for a home just painting it, right. So he goes really by referral. So I said, alright. Let us put together a you know, funnel that focuses on getting more you know, joint ventures that can refer clients to you. So what I am doing is actually calling his existing joint venture relationship and saying, hey, you know, why do you -- why do you refer him? What is unique about him? What are your clients love about him? What are they not like about him? You know, people that say no, why they are saying no? So I am asking him all these questions and that is what you know, I like to do in marketing too. Like when things are not going how you want them to go, do not just say, oh well, I think it is this. Oh, I think it is this. Ask them. Survey them. And more importantly, call them on the phone, right. Nobody does this. I guarantee you, if you spend 1 hour calling you know, say 4 people on the phone because it should not take more than 15 minutes. If you spend 1 hour calling 4 people on the phone and asking them why they bought from you. What was so special about your offer that made them buy. You know, what kind of transformation they were looking for. And then you -- you know, maybe do 2 on 2. Like 2 why they bought and then 2 people that did not buy and say, hey, you know, I just noticed you did not buy. I do not want to sell you anything. I am just kind of getting some feedback here. Why did not you buy, you know, was it too expensive, okay. Well, explain why you thought it was too expensive because you know, (inaudible 14:38.1) make more money or whatever it is. So have them explain why they did not buy you know, and actually call them, right. Do not guess why things are not working for you in your business. Figure it out in a more you know, systematic formulaic way, right, by actually speaking to human beings (God forbid). It is the same thing you know, a lot of times, I recommend putting live chat on the sales letter, right. And if people are exiting, you say, hey you know, just tell us why did not you buy today, like what was the issue? And you can gain so much valuable insight from that right. So you know, do that. Try it out. Next one is who you are surrounded by, right. Number 3 is the people that you are surrounding yourself with and we have all heard this you know. You are the average of the 5 closest people to you or whatever, right. So I like to look you know, like if you look you know, I have talked about how I do guys night every week, right. Every week, we do a guys night, right, where it is me and usually between 3 to 6 of my buddies and like whoever can go out that week or whatever and we get together and will go and will you know, will go you know, smoke a cigar in my garage and have a couple of beers or will go out to a restaurant or will go you know, to a party somewhere or like whatever it is, right or we go bowling or you know, whatever -- we played paintball the one time you know, wherever we go. We will pick a place and we will go there. And I was just thinking about the people that I actually hang out with. And so the one is, he is a pharmacist in the area right. So he is making I do not know, probably over $100,000 a year you know. Another one is, he is another business owner and he owns one of the most successful tutoring companies in our area right. Another one is another business owner, he owns an electrician company, right. Another one is a -- he used to be a celebrity private pilot and like he would actually fly around people like Jennifer Aniston and Ben Affleck and Brad Pitt and like you know, all the like A list celebrities. He would actually -- he used to live on Los Angeles and he just recently moved to our area like, I do not know a year and a half ago or so. So now he is kind of doing the same thing. He has gotten a name so he is doing it out of you know, out of New Jersey and out of New York and out of certain places in Pennsylvania and that kind of thing, right. And then I have another friend who is, you know, not “like oh my God, wow that is impressive,” but he is just an awesome dude you know what I mean. And he is really, really, really, really, really talented at fixing things you know what I mean. So you know, it is kind of a cool you know, combination of people. And the point I want to make here is that you have to look at your life and figure out who is toxic. There are several relationships in my life where the person just did not -- they did not fit anymore. They did not serve you know, me growing as a person you know. There is a lot of stuff that I learned from my friends and from my family that I hang out with, you know what I mean. You know, of course like business people like when I go away you know on trips. You have to get rid of toxic people. I mean that is just it. You have to just suck it up and get rid and just end the relationships you know. There are several times I have done that and to people who just -- they just -- I mean they could not help me grow as a person you know, as a father, as a husband, as a business owner. They could not help me grow and they are weighing me down, right. And you have to let it go you know, it sucks, but you do you know. Think -- I am sure you have people in your life right now, most people do that are just weighing them down you know, and it is just -- Listen, you just got to sever the relationship and move on you know and it sucks doing it you know. It is not fun telling somebody that you know, I mean you are basically telling them that they suck you know what I mean. Let us just you know, get right down to it. You know they are just -- and it does not you know, I am kind of joking there. It does not necessarily mean that they suck. It just means that they are not you know, where you are headed in your vision of your future is not where they are headed, like they are veering off to the left over here and it might be something totally you know, cool. It might be something like you know, but if they are not in line with where you are going, if they cannot help you get there, right, if they are not supporting you to get there, they do not belong in your life, right. And so either you know, sometimes with family member is a little bit harder because you still, I mean, you kind of have to see them at you know, it is not like oh, I am not going to talk to you at you know, at Christmas or whatever. So that is a little bit harder, but you cannot you know, hang out with them as much like you know, kind of just see them for the holidays and you know, that is it and then kind of go about your ways you know, and do not make a big deal of it, but also do not let their attitudes persuade you in any way. So you know, just look, look at who is in your life. Look at you know, make a list of the people that you really love and the people that you just do not you know. Who is weighing you down in your life and get rid of them. Next thing is wanting incident results, alright. There are so many people, I cannot even begin to describe how pervasive this problem is. People just want instant results. I mean, if they like -- they want a sales letter and they wanted to be you know, a 10, 20 times ROI the second that it launches and it just does not happen. I mean, sometimes it happens, but it just does not you know, it takes longer you know, you have to -- when you launch things, you are going to be at the worst possible place that is ever going to be because you are, you know, you have done what -- hopefully, you have done all of your work for figuring out the objections, figuring it out what the unique selling preposition is, figuring out what the value of your preposition is, figuring it out like all that stuff and -- but in the end of the day, you are kind of guessing, right. You have all the information. You can do surveys. You can talk to people blah, blah, blah, but until you actually put it in the market place you have not gotten an actual vote for your ideas, alright. And you know, when you first launch something, so like, you know, -- alright, my high-ticket product coming out hopefully next month, right. When I launch that right. I am going to do it and I am going to sell it via webinar okay, because that is mostly (inaudible 21:06.4) so I am basically going to create a webinar selling you know, how to create webinars. And by the way, just in case you are wondering, I am actually not going to use the formula that I am going to teach. I am going to use something fairly similar, but it is going to be enough that you cannot just like rip it off and be like, oh I am just going to look at everything you know, because I know a lot of people are going to try and do that. And so I am kind of you know, doing a little I do not know what you would call that, a little I do not know, invisible shift. I do not know. If you think of a good term, you can tell me. But when I launch that, right. Right out of the gate, now I get really good results with my list. I am sure you know, I will make a lot of money and that will be awesome, but you know, when I do that with cold traffic, it is, well like, when I first launch it that first week of looking at results, that is going to be the worst results that it will ever get right. And what I am going to do is basically look at it, right. You let the results come in. You say, okay, here is where we are doing good. Here is where we are doing bad. Let’s you know, do more of the things that are working and do less of the things that are not. And then you know, every week, every month, you know, you get better. You get better. You get better. You test you know, different ads. You test different headlines. You test different big ideas. You test different you know, whole webinars, right. You test different price points. You test different guarantees. You test different you know, the structure of the content. All that kind of stuff, right. And over time, you continually you know, pump up the results. So the point here is, if you want instant results, basically shift your mindset, right. It is like losing weight right. So I have been -- I have always been up and down with my weight. I kind of got some bad conditioning for my mom in that area and so I am getting rid of that. Now, I am breaking that cycle because I finally became aware of the fact that that is where it stemmed from right. And by the way, I love my mom. She is -- it is just, with that particular thing she is kind of has some bad conditioning herself and then kind of past it onto me. So I used to be in awesome -- I was on awesome shape in high school, right. I used to do like hands and push ups and all kinds of crazy stuff. I still can do them, but my wrist is little bit jacked up so I do not really do them anymore, but you know, then kind of fluctuate a little bit and then I got really good shape. I was then shaped up until my wife had Connor which is 5 years ago. Then I got back in good shape. I gained a little bit and then I was -- I got in really good shape like 2 years ago and then my dad past away. And I went off to wagon for like 6 months. I gained like 25 pounds. So basically, in March of this year -- I kept all that weight by the way. So in like March of this year, I was like, you know what, I am breaking the cycle. This is freaking ridiculous. I am breaking this and I am getting back down to really good shape and I am going to stay there, right. So it is now September, it is September 19. So it has been whatever like 6 months and I am down like 20 plus pounds. I put on a whole bunch of strength and muscle and all that and way better shape, cardiovascular wise. I was doing sprints today like uphill sprints the other day and you know, I noticed (inaudible 24:18.4) how much better. I mean my running time even though I do not really run that much, but my running times are all like the lowest they have ever been you know, that kind of thing. I do that more just to like test it. And you know, that came over 6 months you know what I mean. Like you can expect to lose that much of weight in like a month or 2 months. I mean, it is just not, unless you are like 150 pounds overweight, then you can lose 20 pounds in like 2 months, but still, you know, you cannot like anything that you want in your life, right. The longer it takes to get you there the better results you are going to get, right. Even people that it is like you know, you hear a lot of people and really with webinars, it is the biggest thing selling high-ticket, that is why I am such a big fan of this. People that have huge breakthroughs, right, it is not like they went from knowing nothing to all of the sudden you know, running a 7-figure business, right. They tried a thousand things you know. They failed at a thousand things first and then they hit a big with something, right. There are no overnight successes. It is not -- it just does not happen. It is the result of hundreds and hundreds and hundreds and hundreds and hundreds, thousands of failures along in your life that finally something clicks, right. You never, ever, ever, ever hear. There has never been a freaking entrepreneur in the history of the world that went from absolutely nothing, knowing nothing about business and just saying, hey, I want to be an entrepreneur and building like a 7-figure business or 8-figure business or 9-figure business, but just does not happen, right. It is the result of repeated failure, repeated getting back up, right. After you are getting knocked down on your ass. Getting back up trying it again, failing. Trying it again, failing. Trying it again and then finally something hits. That is what happens, right. That is life. Whether it is losing weight. Whether it is the relationship with your wife. Whether it is business. Whatever it is, whether it is spirituality, meditating you know, whatever it is. It is the result of repeated failures and getting back up and doing it again and doing it again and doing it again. So if there is anything in your life business wife, health wise, relationship wise, whatever it is right, maybe you know, you and your wife have been a little bit rocky relationship or you and your husband, you and your spouse I will say, you know, things are not going to change overnight you know. I have heard of couples where one of them cheats on the other one you know, and they decide, they make the decision like, hey, you know, we are not going to get divorce, we are going to try to make this work. That is not going to change overnight. That is going to probably be like a several year long process before that trust is build back up, right. You cannot expect instant results. It does not matter what you do you know. It is just not going to work. And the same thing you know, health. You are not going to get a 6 pack in 2 months you know what I mean unless you are like almost at the 6 pack. You are not going to get really, really strong or really, really big or really, really flexible or really, really healthier, whatever it is fast. It is going to take time and you should -- what you have to do is just enjoy the process you know. In my quest, my own personal quest for health and for wealth and you know, all those kinds of things, relationship wise, we are already there, so that is not really journey anymore because we are already there, just continuing it. You know, you have to fall in love with the journey and not the destination, right. Do not fall in love with the fact that you want to be a millionaire or you want to have 6 pack or whatever it is, whatever your goals are. Do not fall in love with that. Fall in love with the journey to get there, right, because it has been, I mean repeated over and over and over and think back to your own life when you had a huge goal, what happened when you got there, you probably got depressed, right. You probably celebrated for like a day or two and then it was like alright, now what. Now I feel empty. Now I feel there is void in my life. What will I do now, right. So you know, getting to the peak of the mountain is not like when you actually step foot on the top, that is not what you should be striving for. What you should be striving for is the journey to get there, right. So just think about that and see how it applies in your own life. And finally, number 5 is why I love my wife so much. Speaking of relationships. So today is our anniversary. Today, is our 7-year marriage anniversary and then we are also together for 6 years before that, right. So we were actually high school sweethearts. We have been together since we are 18 years old you know, we are both 30 now. So (inaudible 28:51.9) 12 years, although -- it is kind of one of those things like she is going to be 31 in 2 months. So it is like, whatever, like 12 years and like 10 months or whatever that is you know. So we have been together long time. We both knew I think fairly and I think we are little bit -- it is kind of a little bit lucky and a little bit -- I do not know preordained, I do not know. We just always kind of knew that we were just right for each other you know what I mean. It was one of those things -- I think I got lucky in that aspect, but right, we have worked hard to keep that, right, because there are so many things that her and I have gone through. I mean, we went through so much more stuff than most people go through in a life’s time. By the time we were like 26, 27. We went through, I mean, our son, she has epilepsy, right. So there are -- she is -- you know, and all the time we have been together, she has not been able to drive longer than she has been able to drive. So think about like think about your life and think about you know, think about your wife or your husband and think about them not being able to drive, right, and just play that out in your mind for a second and imagine how hard that is. I will give you a hint, it sucks, right. It is very, very, very hard. It is very, very, very stressful, right. So there is that, right. We went through this was, I think 4 years ago, 2011, 5 years ago. We went through a flood. Our house got flooded, right. We had to move -- that is actually why we are in this house now. We are like way up. If our house gets flooded now, like our entire town is going to get like be underwater. We are way up high now. So we went through that. So that was awesome. We went through you know, we have had kids together. We have been totally, totally, totally broke to the point where I literally did not know how I was going to pay the bills, right. So we have gone through that together. We have gone through a lot of deaths in the family you know. We have gone through our son, Connor, has autism. So we have gone through that, right. And he is doing awesome now by the way. I know a lot of people asked me about him. He is doing absolutely phenomenally well. A lot is because of my wife, because she is a freaking angel and she is literally the best mom like ever in the history of the universe and just I mean literally puts every ounce of her soul into helping him succeed and I mean, God, like he is you know, we were scared like you know, it was going to be like really bad for him and God, with everything she does for him. I mean he is going to you know, when he gets older, I mean, he is going to do awesome you know what I mean. He is going to live a totally, totally, totally normal functional life, like all that kind of stuff. He will be able to have friends. He will be able to have a job. He will be able to have a career, all that kind of stuff and I attribute most of that to her you know, she is so amazing with him. So anyway, so you know, today is our relationship and so I just kind of want to you know, say a little appreciation for her. Let me put it in this way. This is the type of woman she is. So today is our anniversary. We are actually going to go out to eat tomorrow because the place that we are going to go to is not open on Monday, so we are actually going to kind of celebrate tomorrow, but we were talking yesterday. I was on the lock -- we are on the lock with the kids. Connor just learned to ride his bike. So he has been wanting to ride his bike everywhere, so were on the lock. We are talking about you know, where to go, where to celebrate. And I jokingly brought up Wendy’s right, kind of half jokingly. So our thing with Wendy’s is we rarely go out for fast food and there is a place like -- there is a -- like shopping center that is like a half mile from our house and there are several fast food places in there and we have been on our house for almost -- for like 4-1/2 years now and we literally never gone to any of them once. We are just not like it is just gross in fast food. It is disgusting. It is horrible for your body. So we rarely go out like we probably go out for fast food maybe twice a year and when we do it is typically, Wendy’s and we have not gotten to Wendy’s in probably about a year. So I jokingly said, we should go to Wendy’s for our anniversary and she actually wanted to. That is the type of woman she is that you know -- you know, most girls are like, oh, I want jewelry. I want flowers. I want this. I want that. I want to go to the fancy place you know, blah, blah blah. She actually was legitimately okay with going to Wendy’s for our wedding anniversary you know. And I was just thinking about that and that is actually why I put it on the list because I was thinking about that this morning. I am like, my God, that is so awesome you know, like I am so lucky to have her in my life you know. I know that is not like really a rant like the other ones. It is more of just you know showing appreciation and it is really more of you know, if you think about it you know, the relationship that you are in has so much of an impact on your business and on your life and on your happiness you know and on everything, that it really like you need -- a lot of people do not put enough time in their relationships. I mean, her and I sit down and we are so open with each other. I think that is one of the biggest pillars of success in relationship is being open with each other. The second that we feel neglected by the other person or misunderstood or whatever distant or whatever like kind of a negative thing comes up, we instantly talked about it and get it you know, get it out of the system before it becomes a problem you know, and I think that it is one of the biggest keys in keeping a successful relationship, is being able to have those discussions that sometimes they sucked you know what I mean, sometimes they are hard you know. There are times when you know, you kind of become distant and you know, we have had like conversation like, hey, you know, I am feeling a little bit kind of not fully with you right now you know, and then you just you know, you do something -- a lot of times what we do is we will go out, like a lot of times that happens because we have not been close, right. So if work has been crazy or if it has been really stressful a lot of times with her those kind of things happened like after she has a seizure because she will kind of get in a funk because she cannot drive and you know, that kind of thing and it creates a lot of stress and if Connor, if things are going out with Connor, because sometimes he will have kind of a flare ups with his autism and it is really stressful for us watching him go through that, that kind of thing. So you know, sometimes things get tense like they do in any relationship, but the big key here is that you talk about it, right. You do not just sweep it on the rug because that then boils up later you know, 6 months, a year, a couple of years later and it is a thousand times worse instead of 1 tiny little bubble at the bottom of the pan, now it is this big thing you know, big giant 2-inch bubble popping at the surface and everybody explodes, right, and you do not want that. So the point here is you know, take a minute, if you are married, if you are in relationship, realize how important they are to your business, right, because you know, think of how you work when you are in a fight with somebody, whatever they are, girlfriend, boyfriend, husband, or wife whatever it is. Think about how that affects you mentally and how that translates in your work right. It is kind of the same thing as sleep you know, if you are not getting sleep that directly kind of transports into how you work right and it is the same thing with the relationship. It is, I mean you are with them, you know, just as much as you with your business you know, or the 2nd amount at least. So you know, they are pillar for your business by far. So take a minute and you know, number 1, if you are having problems you know, in your relationship, you know my advice for that would be, number 1, be honest with yourself. Is it the right (inaudible 36:48.0) relationship, right. Is it the right (inaudible 36:51.6) relationship? Are they the right person for you? And you have to be honest. Again, it is one of those things you know, I have seen so many people stick in relationships because that is where the momentum is, is staying. It is easier to stay in the relationship than break it off, right. And of course, it is a lot easier doing this when you are like boyfriend or girlfriend versus wife or husband, right, but I mean you have to look at it and say, is this relationships serving me, you know. Is this relationship you know, still beneficial for both of us, you know. Are we on the right path, right. So that is the first thing. Number 2 is if you still love that person and you want to stay with them, but things are little bit rocky right now. What can you do to fix it? Do not worry about them. What can you do to help fix that relationship and go back to wanting instant results. Do not expect things change instantly, right. But what can you do right, because most of the time, I hate to tell you, if you are having relationship issues, it is not because of the person, it is because of you right, most of the time and that goes for both people in the relationship if you can kind of understand that is you know, how you treat the other person has you know, like a constant looping cycle right. If you are treating them like shit, well guess what? They are going to resent you. And if they are treating you like shit, you are going to resent them. So it is just constant you know, either positive or negative feedback loop, right. So if you change yourself and how you respond and treat them, they are going to in turn feel that and you know, reciprocate and then that is how you change you know, kind of the like, if you are in kind of like downward spire right now, if things are little bit rocky, try that you know. Have a discussion about it and say look, things have sucked. Let us just be honest with each other you know, our relationship sucked lately. What do we have to do to you know, to get it back, to get the spark back, to get the you know. My wife and I are still you know, I mean, honestly, we are way more in love now than we were when we you know, you know you first start relationship, there is like a whole infatuation stage. We are way, way, way more in love now than we were back then you know, and we have been married for 7 years and so it is because of this. It is because of communications, because of honesty, it is because of you know, working at a relationship you know, surprising her with various things and not presents, right, but going out and doing her favor right. Not jewelry, but going out and getting her flowers for no reason, right. Going out -- she is pregnant now. So you know, she is pregnant with number 3 and in fact, we are actually going to find out boy or girl next week. So I will definitely update you in the next podcast. So that will be exciting. Anyway, so this is starting to get long. I just want you to think about that. I know you know, that does not really have anything to do with business, but it also has everything to do with business. So just take it and you know, do with it what you will and let me know if you like this episode where I just kind of talked about stuff that you know, it is not “business tactic” but it still has a direct relationship on your business. So let me know if you like this episode. If you hated it, whatever. If I went too long. If I ranted too much. If I did it enough, you know, maybe you want it longer, I do not know. Let me know, you know. You guys are the market. You tell me what you like. So tell me what you like and you will get more of it. It is really simple as that you know. So anyway, I hope you are having a good week. I hope you, you know, finish out your week strong. Go back to you know, hustling and think about how you can change your daily habits, your daily productivity habits and see how you can work you know, I always say, how do I work the same or less hours but get more (inaudible 40:36.9) you know. One really quick trick with that is before I go. Work until noon everyday and then you are done for a week. Try that. See if you can get the exact same amount of work done before noon and than you would have normally if you work until whatever 3 or 4 or 5 and I guarantee you can do it because I have done it and I actually like working until 3, but yeah, that is kind of 1 trick that I have done you know, because you automatically figure out how to remove the stuff that you should not be doing and get faster and better at the things that you should be doing, right. So anyway, that is it for today. I hope you have an amazing week and I will talk to you soon.  

In this episode, we chat with Jonathan Rivera. Jonathan is a podcasting BADASS and we dig into how to use podcasting to skyrocket your business, including several ideas I haven’t heard other people talking about. In fact I learned more personally from this interview than any other interview so far. If you have a podcast or have been thinking of starting one, this is a MUST listen episode! If you’d prefer watching the video you can watch it here: https://youtu.be/k7rc2XrhbIs Resources Mentioned thepodcastfactory.com/app Transcript Jeremy Reeves: Hey guys what is going on. This is Jeremy Reeves here with another episode of the Sales Funnel Mastery Podcast. Screwed up my own name. And on the line today we have Jonathan Rivera. And Jonathan, he has a pretty interesting background. So he got started actually in real estate and basically made his fortune in real estate, kind of conquer that world and you know, like most entrepreneurs you know, you conquer one thing and then you enjoyed that for a while and then it is like, alright, what is next you know, what is the next mountain to climb. And so he got into podcasting and now he is essentially, the podcast king, and he likes that title. So he is kind of like the podcast king. He has helped a lot of really big names. I was just looking up and I had it up in front of me here. Of course, I exit it out, but I know there is Dan Meredith I think you helped and Ben Settle, and there is a whole bunch of other guys in there too that I am blanking on now, but John, how are you buddy? Jonathan Rivera: I am happy to be here and I like the king of podcast so much that I bought the domain. So you can start directing that to my outpage looking at Dan Meredith, Kevin Rogers, Ben Settle, Doberman Dan, a bunch in the guys in copywriting. I know you are a fan of copywriting and you are in the gig. So you know these guys and yeah. It has been a super fun adventure just like you and I were talking before we actually start recording. What a great way to end the day like today I get to speak with you and that is really what this is about. Speaking, sharing, learning, and growing. Jeremy Reeves: Yeah, I love it. Guys if you are not familiar with any of those names. They are all really not only are they bad ass marketers, but they are all really cool people you know. I have talked with -- I think everyone -- I do not know if I ever tried to talk to Kevin Rogers actually like personally. I actually hang out with Doberman Dan, he is a very interesting character. He always keeps it interested, to say at least, but -- and he is also has a very, very long background you know, in this space doing you know, supplements and all kinds of you know body building type of stuff that used to be (inaudible 2:19.0). All kinds of crazy stuff. So before we get into you know, essentially how do you use podcast to grow your business whether you have products or services or whatever you have. Tell everybody a little bit more you know, go a little bit deeper into your background and you know, and then that all kind of segueway into everything. Jonathan Rivera: So you mentioned the real estate thing, and really, the real estate thing was me pulling the rip cord and saying, I cannot be employed anymore and I need to get the hell out of 9 to 5. Actually, it was 7 to 3:30. I was a construction worker, believe it or not. And working long hot hours out there in the Florida sun just dying basically. I could not wait to die out there. I knew that was no way to live and so I saw real estate as ejection seat. The way I was going to escape the job life and so I took that path. I made a lot of money. Lost more money than I made (inaudible 3:15.6) in debt you know, I mean like, hey, I have been broke before I broke again. No big deal. I rebuild that business. Rentals are doing great now and then I have -- I have been online since 2008. I have been podcasting since 2009 and I have done other businesses and infoproducts and all sorts of stuff, but the one thing that stayed consistent from then to now is my love for just being on the mic and chatting with cool people like you Jeremy. Jeremy Reeves: Yeah. And it is fun you know. I was just thinking about podcasting the other day. By the way, it is impressive that since 2009. That was way behind you know, in front of the trend. I was just thinking about the other day like you know, I am essentially getting paid anybody who has a podcast. You basically get paid to you know, kind of pick the brains of people that normally like, I could not just call you know, some of the people that I have on the podcast and be like, oh, hey, do you want to just talk for you know, for an hour and tell me everything that you -- you know, spend your entire career learning, you know what I mean. But with podcasting, it is like, hey, you want to be on the podcast? And you get huge people you know, big A level you know, big dog players and you get like you kind of borrow their credibility and then you make money from that. It is such an awesome you know, I am always astounded at the (inaudible 4:30.9) technological world that we lived in you know what I mean. You could not do this stuff even like 10 years ago you could not do this you know what I mean. So it is kind of awesome. So before we get into the actual questions. I have a couple kind of like get to know you questions right. And I would like to do this in the beginning just to you know, so people get a little bit better of an understanding of you as a person before we get into like the business side of things. So number 1 and most importantly is what is your favorite alcoholic drink or non-alcohol. Jonathan River: My favorite alcoholic drink is beer and my favorite non-alcoholic drink is water, but I am also a fan of nice aged Bourbon maybe something like 15 years or so and I do the scotch things sometimes, but beer is my number 1. Jeremy Reeves: Nice. Any particular brands? Jonathan River: I actually went out with some friends recently and I took them out to lunch over here by the airport and it was just kind of snobby place with all these fancy beers and when the waitress came up and I asked her for a Miller Light, she was actually disappointed in me. I asked her, you have it in the can, even better, so yeah. Miller light in the can. Jeremy Reeves: It is funny because I love craft beers so I would actually love that kind of place. There is actually a couple in our area and my wife would not go to them because she is like, she just drinks Coors Light and well nothing now. She is pregnant now. So nothing now obviously, but like you know, when we go out you know, we cannot go to those places because like a lot of them do not have even Coors Light, you know what I mean. Jonathan River: Sounds like offensive to them. Jeremy Reeves: Yeah. And I do not get that much into it like I am not you know, I am not like, oh my God, you like Coors light, you are a horrible person you know what I mean. It has -- everything has its place you know what I mean. When we go quadding you know I drink Coors Light and Miller Light that kind of thing. Okay. Next one. What is one bad habit that you are trying to get rid of? Jonathan River: One bad habit that I am trying to get rid of, I am consistently working on my cell and so I am always trying to knock out bad habits and so it is one that I am sure everybody deals with and maybe, I am just in a different place with it, but it is just procrastinating on even the smallest things like today before we get on the call I told you I had a great day. I love that I am speaking with you right now because I was really productive. I got up 4 in the morning knocking stuff out and by the way, congratulations on your kid. Jeremy Reeves: Thanks. Jonathan River: We just brought home our son. So we were in the middle of an adoption. Three year process and we just brought home our son. Jeremy Reeves: That is awesome. Congratulations to you. Jonathan River: (inaudible 7:14.9) for some fun, but it is really just putting off these little things or letting them (inaudible 7:22.1) and so I have really been working hard. I have a white board over here which you cannot see and my pride in that white board is keeping it blank. I write things down and the point is to erase them and get them off in there. (inaudible 7:34.1). Jeremy Reeves: Okay, I like that. Yeah everybody has that you know. Procrastination is definitely a big one. What is that? Jonathan River: I said I am not alone, I am sure. Jeremy Reeves: What is one thing in your bucket list that you cannot wait to cross off. So like, what is like the big thing that when you cross that off, you are like, oh God, that feels so good. Jonathan River: We are in the process of doing that right now. So we brought our son home and so one of the things and I have my goals written over here. One of the things is I always wanted Rachel, I call her cupcake. I always wanted a cupcake to come work with me in the business and the reason was that, if we were working together in this business, the online business, we would be able to be location independent. So the thing on my bucket list right now that I have never been closer to and I am really excited about is spending that month in Utah, during snowboard season and still having the money coming in, having our son with us and being like, you want a snowboard today or not? That is really be a question. Jeremy Reeves: Oh, that is awesome, yeah. I used to be in the snowboarding when I was probably up until, I do not know, maybe 16 or 17 and it kind of fell out -- I actually tried to do it a couple of years ago and I was like nope. Not happening. I went down it was just like pathetic and I used to be you know, pretty good. I mean not like great, but pretty good at it you know, but -- Alright if you could change one thing about your life instantly, what would it be? Jonathan Rivera: So the one thing that I would change about my life instantly is I would not have waited so long to become an entrepreneur because life is so much sweeter nowadays. Jeremy Reeves: Alright. The final one, the one that you did not know about is -- and I want you to answer this whatever pops in your head like do not sit and think on it. Whatever pops in your head just throw it out. What is your spirit animal? Jonathan Rivera: What is my spirit animal? Oh, I have it written down over here and it is a foxhog. Jeremy Reeves: A foxhog? Jonathan Rivera: A foxhog. Look for the book and I cannot remember the author right now. The book is called Curious. It is an excellent book and in there the author tells you what foxhog is. It is basically someone who does things very quickly, but also has a deep knowledge, the foxhog. Jeremy Reeves: Okay, nice. Is that actually an animal or is it like kind of -- Jonathan Rivera: No. Jeremy Reeves: Okay. Jonathan Rivera: It is a cross between a fox and a hedgehog. Jeremy Reeves: Okay, got you. I like it. Alright, so into the you know, transition into the you know, all the business stuff. So let us say that someone already has podcast, right. And they are looking -- let us just say, they are kind of you know, they are kind of moving along and they are looking for ways to grow you know, let us kind of start there, like everybody wants you know, growth. We are already doing something. How do you make it better you know. So when it comes to podcasting, what is like -- is there something that you found that really like, you have work with all these people and they all, when they launch they are big you know, they keep growing. Is there any like kind of one big thing, the one like differentiating factor between people that are you know, get podcast to the point where it is worth it for them to keep going versus people that is like, “Ah, it is not really doing anything worse?” Jonathan Rivera: Yeah. There is one big differentiator. I have been down this road many, many times because -- at this point, and I was looking at SES because I was preparing for a webinar and we have had over a million downloads on our shows and we have done about a thousand podcast episodes. So I have some experience in here and the one thing that will make the show either make it or break it is the entertainment fact. You see what happens is people get into podcasting and they wanted to display their expertise. They want to show off how smart they are and they end up spewing facts and trying (inaudible 11:25.8) teach, and frankly, most people are listening to shows to just be taken away to be entertained and if they learned something while they are being entertained that is a plus, but your first objective is to be entertaining on your show and if you do that, it will keep bringing listeners back. It will keep them telling other people about it and it will keep you growing. Jeremy Reeves: Nice, I like that, yeah. It is something -- I have never heard of that answer before you know, like when you know, you look up all like ways to grow your podcast and it is like, oh you know, send to your list and send it to Facebook. I do not know if I have ever heard that, but I am actually thinking of the people that you are working with and they are all very entertaining people. Jonathan Rivera: That is the secret to the people that are on the network. Those guys, I mean Kevin Rogers, former stand-up comedian. I think you have -- did you have Ben Settle on the show. You may have -- Jeremy Reeves: I am actually interviewing him in like 2 weeks. Yeah 2 weeks today. Jonathan Rivera: And then Doberman Dan he is a guy that goes off on rants and those rants are entertaining you know, that is a common threat between all of them. It is fun to listen and you also get a little bit of education while you are there. Jeremy Reeves: Okay, yeah, so guys, for everybody listening, I am going to be thinking of ways to do that because I have actually never thought you know, of doing that. I have always kept it very you know, very light harded very you know, kind of just fun and engaging, but I have never actually thought like how can I make it more entertaining, so that is an interesting one. That is going to be my big take away for today already. So how about like with marketing, is there any kind of big secret to you know, let us say -- well actually, this is kind of a 2-part you know, question. Number 1 is any kind of like big secret for getting you know, big names on the podcast and which would therefore help the marketing and then the other one is shows that you already have you know, is there -- do you have any advice for actually you know, marketing goes and like basically getting more exposure with the podcast you know. Jonathan Rivera: Okay, so I got 2 separate questions. One of them is how to get big name people on your show and then the other one is how to market an already existing podcast. So I will go for the first one now. When you are talking get big names you are talking about you as an interviewer getting big name guest on your show? Jeremy Reeves: Yeah, yeah, you know. People like that your audience is going to be like, oh wow, you know, I cannot wait to listen to this you know. Jonathan Rivera: So I got this one from Igor and he is one of the guys I worked with. Igor Kheifets a solo ads guy and he has had like Robert Kiyosaki. He has had Ken McCarthy, Mike Dillard tell these big people and I am like, you know, you are doing a lot in a little bit of time sunny boy, why (inaudible 14:09.9) right and so he wrote back to me. Yeah, I think I interviewed him about it for the podcast recipes book and he told me the secret that he used to get all these giant name guest was the network. So he knows this guy like, you are probably just like me and he is like, (inaudible 14:29.3) where you will pay people for work. You will pay people for mentoring, coaching, masterminds, and stuff like that. So he makes all those connections but he does not just leave it at deck. He keeps those relationships going and then he will make an ask. Like, hey, I know you this guy, will you introduce me to him? Or it might be 2 people (inaudible 14:46.6) and be like can you introduce me to this guy so I can get introduce to that guy and that is really how he has done and he just hopscotch his network to get all the big name guest that he wants on his show. Now second question was already existing show. How do you grow it, right. That was the question. So there is a lot of different ways to do it. One of them is like you said, getting the big name guest on your show. Sometimes that works, sometimes it does not because people think just because you get a big name guest on your show they are going to promote. Most of the times, big name guest will not promote. So if you already had an audience that likes them, good for you, but if you are looking for them to grow your audience for you maybe not so much. Now here is the other things that you can do is like syndication. We like to -- when we get our shows going, we have on a (inaudible 15:32.5). We have them on iTunes, (inaudible 15:34.6), or Google Play, or even put them over on Youtube now and Youtube is super cool because you can run ads to them when there is something you cannot do anywhere else. The other thing is obviously like you said, your email list. And that is why I tell people all the time when they want to start podcast, I asked them. How big is your list? How often you get in touch with them. They tell me they do not have an email list. I told them you do not need a podcast. Much better to spend your time building that email list. You can use social media. One of the things exactly doing is, I started using the app, (inaudible 16:03.7) because we have so much contact. I can only share once as it comes out, but using that app and making sure that I have a library of content and it comes out more often. I am sharing out episodes and that is one of the things I think most podcasters make a mistake. They shared the episode once when it comes out, make a big deal about it. Forget about it, but the content, if you did it right, is still good and you need to keep sharing it because people need to be reminded and new people need to hear it and some people will share it. So there is like 1 or 2 tips (inaudible 16:34.1) Jeremy Reeves: Yeah. I like that last one too. That is -- I actually do not think I have ever shared something like once it is -- you know, it is like you publish it and then as soon as the next one comes out that last one is just forget about you know. So we have like whatever like 65 shows and I have never promote any of them more than once. That is a good one. Learning all the mistakes I am making. Jonathan Rivera: We all make -- I mean, many, many years of these mistakes I have made, I only started doing it (inaudible 17:01.8) I started podcast in 2009. I just started sharing old one like this. I have hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of shows, I just started this a couple of months ago realizing that I was making this mistake. Jeremy Reeves: Nice. And I just had another question for you. I was going to go deeper into one of the things and it is just like totally in and out yeah. Oh you know what it was? Have you ever found anything. One of the things that I have been, I have been kind of playing around with was getting paid ads to work with podcast you know, and even just breaking even or just you know, getting it like cheap you know, cheap downloads or whatever. Have you ever figured out that you know, puzzle with whether it is on Youtube or whether is on Facebookor you know, whatever you know, basically anything that works for that? Jonathan Rivera: Right now, my man Ryan Stewman from the Hardcore Closer has been -- he is the one that turn me on to Youtube because I do not even care about Youtube a couple of months ago, but he has reported back to me and it is the reason why I am on Youtube now is that the ads on Youtube are working to get him more listeners and the thing about it you know, you are a funnel guy. So think about it, listeners do not particularly mean anything, but if you have a good funnel in place and a (inaudible 18:17.1) equals of visit to a website equals the subscriber equal the sale then you are in business. So yeah, that can work if you got good funnel in place, but most people do not have a good funnel and they just waste money trying to get (inaudible 18:30.6) that may or may not matter. Jeremy Reeves: Okay, yeah. I am going to try Youtube. That is another thing -- I am going to have to go back and re-listen to this episode literally. Jonathan Rivera: Share it twice. Jeremy Reeves: Yeah. No, I definitely will. Because now I am going to start doing that but you know, going back on Youtube, that is something -- you were only be I think 3rd person that is doing like a video podcast and I was actually going to ask you about that, but you already answered that question, but yeah, that is a good one. I am going to start run all over on it to this actually. So -- you know, run Youtube you know, Youtube views (inaudible 19:06.9) talking to Youtube views. So what are you know, so you have listeners right. Now you are starting to grow and a lot of people you know, a lot of people, I do not really do this, but a lot of people kind of take the approach like okay, let me build the audience and then I will start monetizing right. Have you found anything that works in terms of you know, getting people like you were just talking about how listeners do not necessarily equal revenue you know what I mean. So I already know like I know my stats for it and they are very good which is why I am trying to get paid you know, do paid ads to it, but a lot of people do not really like there is never call to action. There is never -- it is kind of just like you listen and then it is just over you know what I mean. Is there anything you found that works really well for getting podcast listeners onto your list or you know, not only onto your list, but actually becoming customers? Jonathan Rivera: Yeah. So (inaudible 20:08.0) see how to tackle this and so you talked about it a little bit just getting people to your site right? With some sort of giveaways, some sort of call to action. That is what is missing and a lot of people are afraid to do that. I mean, c'mon, this day and age I do not know why they would be afraid (inaudible 20:26.4) it is like (inaudible 20:27.4) you know (inaudible 20:28.6) listening, but you should have some sort of good call to action. Some sort of -- I like to do extended content, so a couple different ways that I do it is one is let us know if we do a podcast average 20-minute shows. I like to keep all my stuff short and tight. The secret there is keep them wanting more. So they come back and listen to next week’s episode and so they dive in to your old content. That is just one of our secrets, but the other thing I like to do is if I have a cool guest, if I have some fun on the show, if it goes longer and I really do not cut it like I am supposed to then one of the things that I have done in the past and I have used it 2 different ways is, I will do a sort of extended content. So I will set up the episode and be like, hey we got this great episode bullet point, bullet point, bullet point, the only promise we do not have enough time to cover everything because we only have 20 minutes, but at the end, I am going to tell you how to get the rest of it. And so at the end, the call to action is go to this page and the 2 different ways that I have done is go to this page to get the rest of the interview opt-in for it that is one and another one that I like to do -- I actually find more useful is go to this page and I use one of the show to get plug in and (inaudible 21:38.8) stage and it unlocks the extended interview because now they put you on Twitter. They put you on Facebook and they are getting new listeners in. They want the rest of the interview and they are sharing you. So it is kind of mini viral effect. So that is 2 different ways of using extended content to get people back to the site. Now I want to talk to one of your other points. I failed in podcasting many, many times. You know, from 2009 to now, I do not have the same shows I had back then and one of the biggest mistakes that I have made is that I started this show doing the fill the dreams thing. Build it and they will come. No forget that. Jeremy Reeves: It is the worse phrase to have ever been said in the history of the world for entrepreneurs. Jonathan Rivera: So I figured it out in 2013 where I launched the first show that really was the first show on the podcast factory network and it is one of my podcast recipes. I got the real estate background. We talked about that no money down podcast recipe. And this was basically, I already had the list. I had a partner who also had a list. We had an idea for a show, but I learned my lesson. I thrown away thousands of dollars, hundreds of hours, and years of time on podcast that did not go anywhere. I am like, ehh.. I do not really want to do this podcast thing, but if we do, let us fund it from somewhere. So we went to our list. They were having some problems with some stuff and we offered them a solution to their problem. Hey, if we provide you with this solution. Would you be interested? Yes. Well, here is the buying out button. So we created the product for them and we used all that money to fund the podcast show which was The Making Agents Rich Show which launched June 4, 2013. First show on the podcast factory network. Within 6 months, I was making a living with what most people would call living on a show because I launched it with that idea of no money down. No money out of my own pocket. Sells something for to get the audience involved and then create it. Jeremy Reeves: Nice. I love that. That is brilliant. Well you are a very smart man on. You know, in general, of course, but you know, when it comes to podcast, I have -- I think this may top the show for the most take aways that I have ever had from my guest. So congratulations on that. It is very hard like you know, I have been around the block for long time and you know, I buy all kinds of stuff and so it is very hard to get that title. Jonathan Rivera: Well thank you. I am going to cut that and snip it out. Jeremy Reeves: Yeah, right. That is awesome. So you know, wrapping up. Is there any other question. I always like to say like, is there anything that I missed you know, like if you were to get off this show and you know, we were to hang up and then if there was something that you just want the audience to be like you know, you kind of walk away and you are like, shit, I wish they heard you know, this thing or this other thing you know, if there is one like kind of key take away that you want people to know you know, what would that one big thing be? Jonathan Rivera: We actually talked about a little bit and it is more of a cautionary thing because it sounds sexy to get into podcasting. A lot of people are talking about it. A lot of products about podcasting out there, but I am going to caution you. If you are thinking about a show ask yourself the 3 questions I ask anybody before I allow them to work with me. How big is your email list? How often you are emailing (inaudible 25:06.9) because if you do not have any email list, you are not going to have a successful launch. That is all there is to it and if they do not know who you are and you just start sending him cold messages, they are going to ignore you. So if you are not there then go work on that. The other thing is what are you selling? Like people start podcast and think I am going to get sponsors. Look, you are probably not going to get sponsors (inaudible 25:25.9) get sponsors. So forget that and figure out what you are selling. If it is your show, maybe you should start somewhere else building a product, doing something that actually makes you money. And then the third question I asked people is why they want a podcast and it is more can I help this person. Can I get behind in a mission. So what is your mission. Isn’t that big that it needs a podcast or could you do that with your email list and your product before ever having your podcast. Jeremy Reeves: Okay, I like that. Really quick follow-up question with that. To give people just a rough guideline of you know, how many emails they think they should take, just because I know you know, I know a lot of people are going to be like okay, well you know, what is the big email list. So like, is there any kind of number or at least like general kind of range you know, that you would recommend people have before they start the podcast? Jonathan Rivera: So I want to clarify. I never said a big email list. I just said an email list. That is a clarification. I do not care if you have 10 or 100 it does not matter. We launched Michelle Spiva show, Epic Story Lifestyle. She only had 90 subscribers on her list and I got her to number 3 on iTunes new noteworthy. The listeners do not have to be big, the list has to know who you are. They have to be looking forward to hear it from you and they have to be engaged because if you do not know (inaudible 26:41.4) you have that little bit of trial build then you are really doing yourself a disservice starting with a podcast. You can do it other ways articles, social media, different things that won’t take as much time, won’t be as frustrated to get that and (inaudible 26:56.3) going before you get into the podcasting. Jeremy Reeves: Okay, nice. I like that. Very good advice. So hey, it was a pleasure having you on you know, before we hop off, where can people learn more about you and maybe hire you for you know launching their podcast and you know anything else that you can help them with. Jonathan Rivera: Well, I tell you what. What I put together for your listeners Jeremy is a little, little give away. My top 10 podcasters and we talked about the no money down podcast recipe. We talked a little bit about the interview sort of recipe that I got with Igor and put that together. There are other recipes on how to grow your audience. How to build your list. How to build your brand. All that stuff I put it together for you. It is in our app. You can get it at thepodcastfactory.com/app or you can text factory to 44222 and I will send you the link and once you get email, you are able to grab the top 10 podcast recipes and start using them. Jeremy Reeves: Sounds good. That is awesome. And I can guarantee everybody listening that I am going to do that as soon as we are off of this because clearly I need to. That is awesome. Well, hey, it was a pleasure having you on and we will talk to you soon. Thanks again. Jonathan Rivera: Super fun Jeremy. Thank you very much and I hope that we got a couple good little nuggets for everyone.

This week, we talk about how to launch a new product into a crowded marketplace. I'll walk you step-by-step through exactly what I'm about to do for a client in the beauty industry to help them maximize their revenue with minimal risk. Enjoy!   Resources Mentioned Amazon Transcript Jeremy Reeves: Hey what is going on guys and girls. Jeremy Reeves here with another episode of The Sales Funnel Mastery. And today is actually labor day that I am recording this. I figure you know, we did not really have anything going on. Actually, well, in the morning at least today. One of my buddies coming over later on and we are going to go out and do some stuff, but we did all of our stuff over the weekend with the kids. I got pulled over which was awesome, always a fun experience and it was by (inaudible 0:44.8) and I was going 20 over in a work zone. So that is always a fun time. And the best part is, it was on my way to a kid’s birthday party that is 2 hours away. So it was an awesome day. No it was not that bad. My nephew had a birthday party and it was fun. They live about 2 hours away and you know, we had a really good time with the boys and with our family and all that kind of stuff. Anyway, so, today, I am basically just doing a couple quick things then I am going to head off. I am actually going to take some time today in the afternoon. I am probably going to work until about noon or so. Go for a nice long run and then come back and work on my car a little bit. I am actually getting back into detailing cars. So I used to be into detailing cars when I was probably about 16 to 18 maybe like in that range you know. As a young kid, you know, you get excited working about cars and you have your own car and all that kind of stuff. So I used to be really into detailing cars and I am getting back into it now. So yeah, anyway, so what I want to talk to you about today really quick. I am going to make this kind of short, is basically my thought process. I thought it would help for you to kind of understand like me given marketing challenge and then how I came up with solving it okay. And my thought process goes into the strategy that me and this client are going to do, right. So essentially, they came to me and they had a product that it is not really selling. Well, it is a physical product. I am not going to give away too much about it just because this is going to be -- it is going to be confidential once we officially you know, move forward with the project. They are not officially client yet, but well they soon. So I am not going to give away too much about it, but I will kind of just give you the overall you know, kind of the high level concepts of everything. So, essentially, it is a physical product. It is a beauty product that -- I am trying to think of how to say it. So, it is basically a beauty product that -- it is a beauty product, right. So, it is not a cream. It is like a device essentially that does a similar thing to a lot of salons, but does it in a much cheaper way and you only pay for it once and that kind of thing. So it is kind of a cool story behind it. It has got a good level of price justification in it because you know, you can use it once or twice and it kind of pays for what you would pay in a salon and you get similar results. There is a lot of proof behind it and that kind of thing. And I actually just got an email back at some -- it has some stuff to do with -- it is a therapy developed by NASA which is awesome. So you probably already know, you know, what the big hook is going to be. So they came to me and they were like, hey you know, this -- you know, it is a great product, but it is not really selling that well you know, do you want to you know, basically can you help us you know, we have tried a couple of things, they are not really working that well and you know, can you help us. And so essentially what I came up with right, was a couple of things, alright. So when it comes to selling a physical product like this and it is in the -- it is like a $250, so it is not -- it is not like the high-end range. It is not the low-end range just kind of like in the medium range where you, you know, you have to think about the purchase, but you do not really have to you know, maul it over for like a month, I mean it is $250. So what I said to them was, I said, alright, you know, you are not getting great results now. Number one is because the website -- the website copy is really bad. So I said, number 1, we have to redo that because we need really good copy, right. Number 2. This product lands itself well to demonstration, okay. And when a product lands itself well to demonstration, then it lands itself well to an infomercial style video, okay. And I actually got to write them back. They thought I meant like a 2 minute, like an actual infomercial 2 minute you know, 2 minute spot that kind of thing which we may or may will not do while I am jacking my (inaudible 4:57.5) here today. In the future, right, but for now, I do not think that is you know, quite the place to go. I was thinking more of like a 15 to 20 minute kind of spot, but infomercial style, right. And then you can kind of use that video in a whole bunch of different settings, right. But the big thing is, you know, 2 of things that are missing is proof okay and the concept. So the concept is a little bit new if you look -- if you think about in terms of the buyer’s journey or market awareness more specifically, the market is not really aware right, of this therapy or the product that kind of thing. So we have to start with education, okay. And that is what my you know, a lot of what I am going to be writing is going to based on okay, because the market is not aware of the product or why that therapy work so well, right. As compared to something like if this was like a beauty cream right, most people know you know, what a beauty cream does right, it gets rid of your lines and all that kind of stuff. So you can go more into like the ingredients. You can go more into the emotional benefits of it -- it kind of go right to that. This one is a bit of a new concept, so you have to start with more education, okay. You have to start a little bit slower. The sales process is just a little bit slower because you have to go into more of how it works right, rather than why it works and why it is better right. You have to first set the stage for how it would actually works. How it would actually gets you results, okay. So we are not going to talk about the science behind it and that kind of thing and that is for the NASA story comes in which is awesome. I am actually excited to write about that. It is kind of funny, I actually get kind of like you know, like giddy, like a little kid when I find out that there is really good stories behind things because as you know, stories sell very well. So -- I always love putting stories together. I will go out and take a cigar and a glass of Bourbon or whatever and take my white board outside of my office. Outside of my office there is -- we have a big patio and then we have our yard, the fence, and there is woods behind it. So it is like a really beautiful view of all the trees and you know, all kind of stuff and I love it. This time the year is just -- I love it and fall. So anyway, so I will go out and actually story board, right. The whole like how the story, like you know, what the set up and story is going to be. How are we going to you know, kind of take them through like an emotional journey and how the story fits into -- how it is going to benefit them as a consumer and you know, all that kind of stuff, right. So stories are going to be huge part of this, okay. Now the second part of this is so you know, the first part is conversion right. So we have to redo the website copy. We will probably come out with some kind of PDF or you know, some kind of thing education-based PDF. Think of this as kind of like a consumer’s awareness guide or consumer buying guide that type of thing right and we will talk about -- that way we can talk about the science, to get them really excited and that way in the sales copy, we can get more into the emotional benefits and to hook them in with stories and show you know, demonstrate the product so they can actually see it and you know, get into all that type of stuff right. So we are kind of doing like a 2 stage type of selling approach here. Then when it comes to actual marketing sales right, they made a mistake of -- so they have an investor behind this product and the investor actually has some experience in infomercials which was good to hear. I just found that out. And you know, as an investor, they are going to want like when they are giving someone money, they want the results fast, right. So the mistake that I think they made is they went with an SEO firm, okay. That is a very, very long term strategy, right. We are talking several months, years like it is a very long term strategy. So I think that was kind of you know, mistake number 1 that they made. So I am going to you know, I will kind of talk to them about that. So when I am looking at this, when I know what the product is, when I know where -- what stage of the buying process most of this marketers is going to be in and what stage of market awareness that the market is in, right, which is on the lower end of the scale. There is a scale of 1 to 5 (inaudible 9:13.5) now I think -- I feel like I did a podcast on that or might have done a blog post on it if you want to check through the blog. So there are 5 stages. They are probably about a 2 I would say. Most products are either 3 or 4. They are probably about 2 -- maybe even 1, as I get into it more, I will figure that out, but anyway. So what we are looking for -- when I (inaudible 9:36.9) when I was thinking about this, I said, alright, what do we have to do here to get -- you know, we need momentum, right. That is the big thing here. We need momentum. We need proof. We need you know -- we need some kind of social elements behind this. We need some you know, big influencers who will be taking about this. We need some buzz about this, that kind of thing. So I said, okay. Number 1, it is a physical product, let us go to Amazon right. So we will put together -- we did not do this yet. I actually just sent them the proposal the other day and you know, so we are probably going to move forward. We just have to figure out some of the finer details. So this is what we are going to be doing. Number 1 is Amazon. Lands itself perfectly to Amazon. It is going to give us you know, a couple of reasons for Amazon you know. Number 1, their paid traffic is awesome, right, because you are targeting buyers anybody going on Amazon you are not going there to like research information, you are going there to buy something. So we will target you know, specific keywords send them there and we will see how -- essentially, what we are looking for is number 1, we want to do product validation, right, and on my end I want product validation because this is going to be (inaudible 10:44.0) share you know, type of situation. So I want to get -- I want to put together a campaign that we know right off the bat, how people like the product itself because if people do not like the product you know, then I am going to go back and say okay, you know, look it is just -- it is going to be too hard you know, too much of an uphill battle from here and for me you know, and then you know, kind of just you know, and get out of the situation you know, and then also for them as well you know. You need product validation first, okay. So if you are looking something, you have a physical product or even a service whatever it is, you need product validation first, okay. You need people that are excited to get -- to move forward with it, right. So we need that first. So Amazon is a really good way to do that, okay. So this in paid ads, put together page you know, all that kind of stuff. Second thing that does -- so number 1 is going to validate the product because of the conversion rates are really, really bad on that then we have to figure out okay is it the product, is it the copy are we not talking enough to you know, are we not -- do we not know enough about the market. Is this not you know, good timing for the market you know, what is going on that the conversion rates are bad, okay. So that is going to be step number 1. Step number -- and then the second part of Amazon is that -- as you sell it, even if you do not make a ton of money on it, you get feedback right. You find out why people love the product. You find out why they do not like the product. You find out why they are going to buy. Why they are not buying. So you get a ton of feedback from Amazon that you can then use as you scale the project because we are doing a couple kind of free strategies or low cost strategies first before we get into paid traffic. On Amazon, we are doing paid traffic, but it would be on minimal scale you know, maybe $100 a day or something like that. So we are going to do that, right, Amazon right. And then we also not only are we getting product validation. Not only are we getting feedback, we are also getting proof because we are going to get reviews. We are going to get people giving us testimonials that we can then use in you know, in other market, okay. Then, step number 2 and basically this is kind of where we at now or where you know, basically what we got enough to at this point is influence or outreach, okay. So I said, alright, we want fast results, that is going to be Amazon, okay. That is going to get some momentum going, right. So Amazon boom, right. As Amazon is going, as we are kind of crunching those numbers figuring all that stuff out, we are going to reach out to influencers, okay. So we are going to look at people like you know, big bloggers and podcasters and you know, people what they called vloggers. I hate that word, but you know, video bloggers you know, and all that kind of stuff and you know, even you know, models on Instagram and you know reaching out to people, giving them free samples in exchange for a review or a testimonial or their feedback or whatever that is. Trying to get them to push that out to their audience, right, only if they love it, obviously. You know, obviously, they are not going to give it to their audience if they do not like it. So that is going to be kind of phase number 2 and then -- so that is going to not only are we going to get more feedback, it is kind of like a repeating loop here. We are going to get more (inaudible 13:57.2). We are going to get more sales. We are going to get more reviews and testimonials. What that also does is it generates buzz. So if we are getting these influencers to generate some buzz in the marketplace, we can then have more proof. You can see how the stuff stacks on top of each other (inaudible 14:13.6) proof stacking. That is a good idea. I might have to come up with that concept. I might have to dig into that a little more. So we are going to do some proof stacking. Used that the first time ever. They are -- I just coined the term for you. We are going to use proof stacking and you know, we will use that in the market, right. So we can then say that like, hey you know, this big blogger in the industry loves it and this guy does and then we can use that to leverage things like PR. We can use that to leverage things like getting on webinars right because it is going to be harder to do a joint venture with somebody on the webinar than it is to just say, hey, you know, check this out if you love it, tell your audience about it, alright. So if we get people that are saying they loved it, then we go and you know, we get one of these A players and then we reach out to other A players and say, hey, you know, do you want to do a webinar about it you know, this person, your buddy, or your competitor or whatever loves it you know, I love to send you and if you love it you know, we will do a quick webinar. I will walk you through. I will give you percentage of the commission whatever, right. Notice by the way, that there is barely any risk here you know, (inaudible 15:20.6) risk going into any of this. So it is going to also make the investor happy. When I came up with the strategy, I have that investor in mind because that is -- he is going to have a huge influence on the decisions that are made, right, because he is the one with the money. He is the one you know, putting his funds into this. So I kind of did all this wraparound that investor, right. So you also have to figure out when you are making strategies like this, you also have to take into consideration all of the factors right because if I said, oh, let us do you know, Facebook ads, we are going to spend thousand dollars a day, the investor would say, ahh.. nope. That is not going to happen because I already sank a lot of money into this and we are not going to do that, alright. So make sure you are considering all factors, okay. So at this point, we have Amazon and we will also redo the website probably at the same -- just kind of so it is there -- kind of one of those things like we are not going to send traffic rate to the website probably, but it is kind of just there like it kind of just needs to be there. It is one of those things you know, what I mean, that it is just like kind of you know, kind of just needs to be there. Then we are doing influence outreach. We are doing webinars on people and then the next 2 things that I said was PR right. So as we do this influence outreach, as we do webinars, as we do Amazon we are building up all this proof and credibility, well then guess what, don’t you think that this has a great story for PR. Don’t you think that we can go to some local stations and you know, if we tell them that this NASA technology is getting amazing results and it is a breakthrough thing and it helps you, you know, get amazing results in a fraction of a cost of going to salon and blah, blah, blah. Don’t you think the media would eat that up you know, they would love that. So I think PR is a huge strategy here. The next thing is customer virality right. And again, all of these are very, very, very either low cost or no cost strategies, right. Again, you know, I am thinking of that, that investor. I am thinking of you know, the cash flow that is available. I am thinking about these other factors. That is why -- it is how I came up with the strategy, right. So the last thing is customer virality right. So basically, really great products spread. So if you have a physical product one of the biggest ways to grow that product is by like organic virality right. Getting it to spread organically by getting people to talk about it, right. So how do you speed up that process because it is hard in the beginning right. It is like a snowball you know, snowball is tiny in the beginning as you know, the farther goes down the hill, the easier it is to keep rolling and keep gathering momentum, but somebody is going to push that snowball first, right. So you know, we are going to come up with some ways -- I have not mapped all this out yet, but we are going to come up with some ways to basically, essentially like you know, give free things if they tell their friends right. So after they buy rather than trying to upsell them in you know, all these kind of stuff, we are really just going to focus on the core message like we have to rather than putting together this big huge elaborate funnel and having all these various products, we are going to put 100% focus into the product and into the market okay. So exactly who is that market. Exactly who we going after. Exactly what benefits they want to hear. Exactly what emotions do we have to pull at to get them to buy. Exactly what you know, what pain points do we have to hit. Exactly what objections do we have to overcome. So we are nailing that first, okay, and then we are going to start once we really, really, really like crush all that, then we will move on to things like you know, adding in creams and adding in you know, I do not know extra strength or you know, whatever it is that we come up with for you know, upselling and cross selling. We have to nail it first with the product itself, okay. We have to prove that it is a valid product in the marketplace first, alright. So one of the things that we are going to do is customer virality and you know, just things like essentially you know, we can do contest, we can you know, give them free things if they tell their friends. Basically just to start getting that ball rolling and getting the conversation starting around this, okay. And that is pretty much it. So I do not know, how long that was, maybe a little bit longer, it was about 20 minutes. So anyway, that is -- I thought it would be kind of cool to take you into my mindset you know, as I am coming up with ideas and strategies for my clients you know, that is kind of what I do you know what I mean. That is how I come up with things and you know, when I have clients that say, hey, you know, what do we do that is essentially how my brain works to come up with the strategies for them you know, it is always looking at all the factors is looking at the lowest cost you know, the lowest risk ways to you know, to get things out there. Sometimes it is not the lowest cost by the way. Lowest risk does not mean lowest cost right. If someone has a huge like a lot of cash flow, their time might be a bigger risk factor than the money, right. So you have to take that into consideration. You know, all the various factors and that is what I came up with right. So yeah, I hope you enjoy it. I hope you have I know, by the time you listen to this it will be after labor day, but I hope you already had a great labor day. I am going to be like I said, I am going to be working in the morning and then I am going to spend the afternoon with you know, with the boys and my one buddy who is -- he is from Boston. He only comes in once or twice a year. So I spend a little bit of extra time with him. I am going to you know, wash and wax the car. So it will be fun. Put some good music on. Probably throw up some marketing podcast on or something like that as I am doing it. Yeah, and it should be a good day, but anyway, I hope you enjoy this episode. As always, if you enjoy this episode which I hope you did. If you are still listening, I am assuming you did. So if you are still listening make sure that you are telling your friends about it. Make sure that you give us a review on iTunes, that is the biggest compliment you could possibly give me. I get people all the time that when I talk to them, they are like, this is the best podcast I have listened to. You give the most actionable advice and you know, it is like the best strategy and blah, blah, blah. So yeah, you know, if you are thinking that in your head now, make sure that you give us a review, right. It would be absolutely hugely appreciated and we are giving you free things too you know, like I said, the conversion cheat sheet you know, there is 101 you know Conversion tips in there that you can use for you know, for your website you know, whatever you are doing, there is like basically, your whole sales funnel go through. So we will send you that. Just send us an email after you leave a review and as always, if you want to reach out and work with us you know, whether doing a funnel day to come up with a strategy like I just went through or to actually helping us or working with us to help you build out your own sales funnel whatever that is then reach out support@jeremyreeves.com alright. That it is for the day. I hope you have a good one and I will talk to you soon.

In this episode, we chat with Brad Degraw. Brad is “The Amazon Geek” and helps his clients scale ads on Amazon using a simple framework that just simply gets results. Whether you already have products on Amazon or want to create new products to add a new revenue stream to your business, this is a great episode to get the ball rolling and give you what you need to get started with this untapped media platform. Enjoy! If you’d prefer watching the video you can watch it here: https://youtu.be/3SAtdIEs76o Resources Mentioned https://www.amazon.com/ https://www.alibaba.com/n.com/ https://www.kickstarter.com/ https://www.infusionsoft.com/ http://amazonsherpa.com/ Transcript Jeremy Reeves: Hey everyone, Jeremy Reeves here with another episode of the sales funnel mastery and today I have on the line Brad DeGraw and this is going to be a pretty intense conversation I think because I am a huge fan of selling stuff on Amazon. I always thought it was kind of cool, but I have never actually done it. I have a couple clients that sell things on Amazon. I help them with their descriptions and you know, taking them from Amazon into an online sales funnel that kind of thing. Maybe we will get into that, but you know, I no nothing about actually setting it up and like what you should do to you know, increase your -- you know, whatever Amazon search or engine rankings or whatever you call them. I am sure there is a term for it, I do not even know. But yes, we are going to talk about essentially how to sell a whole bunch stuff on Amazon, right. So Brad is kind of the you know, the Amazon God or Amazon nerd as he calls himself. He started with a $100 and basically computer and turned it into over a million dollars in Amazon sales. So he clearly knows what he is talking about. So Brad how are you? Brad DeGraw: Excellent, excellent. Thanks for having me. Jeremy Reeves: Yeah, yeah. Thanks for coming on. So before we get into all the Amazon stuff. This is actually a podcast first and we are going to kind of start with a couple of questions to get to know you a little better. You have had a little bit of time to think about 4 of them, but the 5th one is going to be surprised. It is going to be -- it will be funny, it is one that like -- If I had you think about it, it would not be as good of an answer. You will see once we get there. So the first one is what is your favorite alcoholic drink? Brad DeGraw: You know, I have not drink in several years. It is something (inaudible 1:55.3) these days it is just Arnold Palmer, but back in the day, it was anything with rhum. Jeremy Reeves: Rhum, okay, nice. What is one bad habit that you are trying to get rid off? Brad DeGraw: You know, I move really quickly through life and I feel like I do not take enough time to like learn about people at deeper level. So slow down. Learn people’s names and stories. Jeremy Reeves: Yeah, that is a good one. I like that. Wow, that is hard to beat. That is really good. So what is the one thing in your bucket list that you want to cross off. It is on there, you have not cross off, but you were like, once you hit, it is like one of those things that it is like you know, yes. Brad DeGraw: You know, for me, I love to see the Northern lights. I love to take my woman out there and just watch the sky change colors and do its thing. Jeremy Reeves: That is on mine too. Brad DeGraw: Excellent. Jeremy Reeves: Another one. Similar one. I want to see the milky way galaxy like you know, without like being in space, you know what I mean like from earth you know what I mean and I guess sometimes like in certain parts of the year and certain places like up on top of mountain and stuff you can kind of see you know, it is clear enough that you can actually see like you know, the whole kind of thing you know. Brad DeGraw: Cool. Jeremy Reeves: Yeah. So it is kind of a similar thing. If you could change one thing about your life instantly, just snap your fingers and it is done, what would that be? Brad DeGraw: Man, I wish my wife would have her green card. I could have that and we could travel international and do some awesome things. That is the biggest snap of the fingers. Jeremy Reeves: How long is that going to take? Brad DeGraw: Supposed to be 6 months. We are still waiting. That is all we can do at this point, just wait. Jeremy Reeves: Yeah. It is the government. You will be waiting in a while. Brad DeGraw: (inaudible 3:34.7). Jeremy Reeves: Alright. The final one before we get into the good stuff is, when I say, do not think about it whatever pops in your head, just say it, right. What is your spirit animal? Brad DeGraw: Turtle. Jeremy Reeves: I know see. And that is why I do not want you to think about it, whatever animal pops in you know and it is funny because I forgot somebody did that to me one time and I am like, it is such like a weird question, but it is like, it is just funny you know, I mean it is like -- then you (inaudible 4:08.6) why a turtle. Why not like a cheetah or like a rhino or like --- Alright so -- I like that question. It is fun. So with those out of the way. Let us -- you know, I guess tell us about what you do and with clients and you know, kind of just you know, dive into to what you do and like what is the Amazon world look like. Brad DeGraw: Yeah, absolutely. So for me, what I do is I find markets. People have a specific problem fantasy desire. Maybe they have diabetes or curly hair and they want straight hair. I find some emotional thing and I read the 1, 2 and 3 star reviews of products they already buying and (inaudible 4:51.3) expectations. So I go out to make (inaudible 4:54.1) and make those products better under our brand. That is the short and sweet part of it. Then we teach people how to do the same thing. Jeremy Reeves: Nice. Yeah, it is awesome. It is actually kind of funny because you know, I was like, I write copy for selling you know, services and products and things like that and one of our main focus is when we are doing a research to understand the market is the same thing. You go to Amazon. You look to the reviews you know so it is actually funny you said, not a lot of people do that or even know to do that, but I mean, oh my God, such a gold in there. I mean people just pour their souls out in Amazon you know. So what kind of products do you sell? You know, are they high ticket or low ticket. Does that not matter. Do you focus more on like the pain you know, like the level of the pain. Brad DeGraw: It is a little bit of everything. So we have pet products. We have parenting products. We have survival products/privacy, outdoor fitness products, and sexual wellness products. We have a little bit of everything. Jeremy Reeves: Okay, nice. When you -- I guess you know, take us to the process like what does it look like -- you know, say somebody on here is -- I guess we will start if they do not have a product and then we will get into like the (inaudible 6:06.2) things you can do to optimize your campaigns, but let us just say that you know, you are listening to this and somebody that wanted to get into the Amazon kind of like me. Like, at some point, I am going to do it. I have not done it yet, it is kind of like one of those things you know, like a little side project that I want to do on the weekends or whatever, at least to you know, for the first time doing it. What is like the process you know? Brad DeGraw: So the process, you know this from writing copy. First, you have to have market. Market is not like a platform. A market is a group of people who are passionate about spending money on a specific problem, fantasy, and desire. So you are not going to end up with catch a popsicle, something that no one wants. You are going to end up maybe targeting women who are pregnant with their second child and they want to maintain their body. They know what the first kid did to them and they wanted to do everything they can to kind of keep their body together. That would be a specific type of market. So let us jus use a very specific example. I live in Colorado and there are a couple of rules in Colorado. You have to have a mountain bike and you have to have a dog. That is just a rule. And if you do not have one that means you neighbor has got two. So if you can take that people who have dogs and bikes well you want to ride your bike and you want to walk your dog. So we looked it. There is actually a product for that and it is like a bike leash. So instead of holding it in your hand while you are trying to you know, stir the bike, there is a device that you can put on to the seat and it will kind of like make the dog run behind you. And so we look at this product and said wow sales are through the roof, but if we read the 1, 2, and 3 star reviews, there are some flaws with the product. Number 1 is being made in China with really lousy metal like pop metal. I am not a scientist, but if we can go from garbage to maybe steel, it is going to weigh a little bit, but is going to last. It is not going to break and your dog is not going to send you into traffic or the dog with the traffic. So great. We hire a designer. You do not have to be an engineer or anything like that. We hired someone, say, here are the flaws read the 1, 2, and 3 star reviews on Amazon and he made the new version of it. So he made all the drawings. We sent it over, had some molds made and now we can go through like Kickstarter to build up an audience while Facebook and then Kickstarter and then Amazon, but if you do not want to do the Facebook and Kickstarter that is fine. You can go right into Amazon because there is an ecosystem of buyers ready who may have bikes, they have dogs and they are looking for that solution. Jeremy Reeves: Okay, and you know what, I always -- I am always kind of you know, a lot of entrepreneurs do this and it is like you know, you come up because you are so -- if you are the right kind of entrepreneur at least, like our mindset revolves around, okay, well here is the problem, how do I solve it you know. That is why -- I think a lot of entrepreneur guys get in trouble with their wives because you should not do that in a relationship you know what I mean and I know I always fight myself mentally. It is like you know, when Katie, my wife Katie which she is actually pregnant number 3 by the way. So like, when there is a problem, my mind is, how do I fix it you know, where as you know, in most cases it is okay, no I just have to listen to -- and you know, and that kind of thing. We will not go into like the whole relationship part. Brad DeGraw: No. You figure it out that is the secret to marriage (inaudible 9:21.3). Do you want me to fix it now or do you want me to listen. Jeremy Reeves: Yeah and I actually sometimes -- I sometimes actually ask that exact question and she is like, no, just listen, you know, and I am like fine, alright, you know, let me get a drink. You know, but then sometimes, she is like, no, I need like, I do not want -- I need it fix you know, and I am like, boom, boom, boom. So a lot of times like I have had a whole bunch of like you know, invention-type ideas in my head right. Especially when I am doing things where I am not that good at it and it is like, this thing you know, because you (inaudible 9:56.8) fresh eyes. So like I am just starting to get into like building things with my hands. I was never really like a builder you know, but I have realized that it is really good to get into a flow state you know, which is good for like disconnecting from business. So I have been building a lot of stuff lately. I am still like in that kind of like learning you know, I am not really that good you know, I am smashing my fingers and hammers and all that kind of thing, but there is a lot of tools that I am using right and I am like why is not this like you know over here like the other side or whatever. So let us just say that you are like that. A lot of people listening to this probably are, they probably you know, heard like thought of ideas. How long does it take like you know, what you just said actually made it sound so simple because the reason I have never actually made anything was not really like time or money or anything in that, it was more like, oh, I have never done it you know and like I never really -- like in my head, the process is like you know, like (inaudible 10:54.6) but it seems like it is not that bad. Brad DeGraw: What I just described is the most complicated way to do it and that can take you maybe 3 months (inaudible 11:05.4) start to finish (inaudible 11:06.9) the idea to where you have your first organic sales. Jeremy Reeves: Okay. Brad DeGraw: You could even go a shorter process. So here is a great example. Pokemon came out like a month and a half ago. My kid and I are in the park and we have overhear someone like, oh man, by battery just died. Oh I got 1% I am going to have to go home soon and so our ears perked up (inaudible 11:26.9) even my kid he is like, hmmm, I wonder how we could solve that and there is a device called a power bank right, it is an external battery hook up that you can just recharge your phone portable. So what if we sold portable power that was already charged. You can solve (inaudible 11:43.4) utility company. Now given the hardware and the power and so I got on Alibaba that night. I am looking up power banks they are $2.31 per unit. Ordered 500 of them and before I could even get to market to it someone wanted to buy my brand. I had a great little domain and a name and so before I could even take the inventory and get it into Amazon, someone bought my brand, and made an offer. Jeremy Reeves: That is awesome. Brad DeGraw: So you could even -- you can do a shorter process, they call it, oh yeah man, it is basically off the shelf technology. You are not developing anything a thing you just say how much for that thing can you put my name on it. Also, it is called private label. So you could even do a (inaudible 12:25.2) and you can turn that around in a week, 2 weeks, let us say 2 weeks. Jeremy Reeves: Okay, got you. Yes. I mean it sounds like the process is not even that bad you know, alright so let us say, let us say design. Let us just say that -- I tried to look at something in my room here. I do not know like a new glass, I do not know, maybe something more complicated than that. A new timer, like an egg timer, right. So you have some kind of cool concept for an egg timer. What would you go and you know for the designer because I guess that would be the first thing. I guess like say, hey, here is what I am envisioning with it and then like what type of designer do you like you know, you go into the Google and it is like you know, X designer you know -- Brad DeGraw: It is literally a product designer and depending on how specific it is. It could be a plastics engineer or silicone engineer. You can get very, very granular and there are people who have studied their whole life on how to engineer plastics to do special things. So if you were doing timer let us say, it is a timer to I do not know, reward your dog. Like you are out of the house and you want to get a treat every hour. So it does not go crazy and tear up your house. Great. So you say it well, it is a product, I mean a product engineer. It is probably going to be made of plasticish and it is probably basically going to be a little spin timer. Done. And you reach out, you can Google you know, product engineer and find the match. Jeremy Reeves: Okay. How do they you know, do you pay them, is it like by project, by hour, it is probably various. Brad DeGraw: It still varies. So you could do a little bit of both. You can say, hey, this is what I think it is going to be, send me a scope of work and I would like you to bid it. Tell me how much do you need for a flat rate. Tell me much you need for an hour and we need to know time and money. How long is going to take it to complete it. How much is going to cost me. Jeremy Reeves: So it is similar hiring someone for like a software program. Brad DeGraw: Same thing. They are service provider. Jeremy Reeves: Yeah, but instead of software -- and I am imaging a lot of times because one idea I have always had -- so my wife has epilepsy right. So I am always you know, when she is out of the house I mean she could be on the walk with the kids and she has seizure you know, on the side of the road. So I have always wanted to come out with something that was like some type of you know, some kind -- type of thing that would like measure it, like you know, it probably be like a predictor type of thing. So it is like, I do not know something happened like the electrical signals if she wore it on her wrist or necklace or something and it would -- like certain type of electrical signal hits it, it would send me a message something like that, so like would that be more of like a software type of thing or -- Brad DeGraw: That would be both. You are starting to go into kind of an IOT space with wearable technology and it is coming. There are already people working on that. Last year we went to the trade show called CES and it is all about the future technology like showcase there and then it comes out in a year or two. There are already at least 4 companies working on wellness monitors specifically for like senior citizens, but it is not that -- it could not be use (inaudible 15:31.7) but yeah, that is a big, big problem and whoever solves that the best it will be a billion dollar company. Jeremy Reeves: Yeah, definitely. Okay, yes. So I got (inaudible 15:42.9) now you got me one to start. Because I am always you know, I am always tell my wife and my wife always you know, she is always like, well, Jeremy, why do not you just do it and I am like, yeah, you know, and then got this thing going on and that thing and -- but like, the real reason (inaudible 15:56.3) in my head the amount of work was way bigger than I actually think it is you know what I mean. Brad DeGraw: For that because the software itself -- I actually went down this (inaudible 16:07.6). Jeremy Reeves: That is probably the harder, yeah. Brad DeGraw: You are talking around $100,000 for the software side of it and for the most start ups I got a crazy idea. You do not want to spend $100,000 on the crazy idea. So it is okay to let someone else roll with that one and there is some really smart companies working on it right now. Jeremy Reeves: Yeah, okay. Sounds good. So let us know, you know, let us say that you have the product whether you created or you got it from something like Alibaba or whatever the case is and now you are at the point where you actually on Amazon and it is like alright let’s you know, let us actually make money you know, let us sell this. What are some of the things that you have seen that work? You know, because I know the last client that I work with on Amazon product, he was telling me how basically -- like he was kind of talking about the organic results from Amazon and reviews are huge you know, that type of thing and just like you know, SCL all the various ways to kind of rank yourself better you know. So what are some of those besides reviews because that is kind of obvious one. Brad DeGraw: Well it gets really, really simple. Once you have a great product, your business is really 2 things and you love this from being a copywriter (inaudible 17:19.5) traffic and conversion. That is it. So traffic wise, it is search term. You have to have the right search terms. There is a feel when you create your listings that says keywords. You want to load that up with keywords. You have 5 lines each of them can hold a thousand characters and number one thing that newbies fail to do is fill that thing up. That is your real estate. That is how you dance with the search bots, so your search terms. Next up is getting reviews. We use bloggers. There is a service called Tomoson. It is kind of like a dating site for bloggers and rent owners that you kind of match them up, which is perfect because not only do you have the Amazon review but they are blogging about your product everywhere. So you have some juice. Next, also, most people miss this, you have customer questions and answers right there above the reviews most people miss it, but the blogs really, really love this. So each one of those is a high quality back link. Without getting super technical, means every question, every response is going to help you start ranking for that relevant market. Does that make sense? Jeremy Reeves: Yeah, yeah. I love that. Brad DeGraw: And then another -- this is super, super important. Do not try to do this yourself. The images. People do judge based on your first image that has everything to do with your kind of click through rating. Nothing super technical, has something intriguing, has something compelling that is emotional, not just like an iPhone hero shot you know, it has to be compelling. Jeremy Reeves: Yeah, I mean everybody is you know, everybody says, do not judge a book by its cover, but it is literally impossible not to. It is, I mean you know, there is no saint on earth that does not like -- there is not a split second you know -- Brad DeGraw: Why -- it is how we survive this long (inaudible 19:01.9) species because we understand danger or you know, pleasure. Jeremy Reeves: Yeah, yeah. So how about you know, let us say you know, actually before we go there. Is there anything with you know, with the copywriting, so like with the description, you want the keywords, but you also want to sell the product right. So you know, you actually have to talk to them about what they are suffering from and you know, how your, you know, widget overcomes that and how it is unique and awesome you know, that kind of thing. So is there really like kind of copywriting tips. Do you have any kind of like formula or template or anything like that or is it you know, do you sell too much of (inaudible 19:39.2) stuff. Brad DeGraw: Here is our best practices and it evolves. So half of the things we talked about today and 6 months from now they are going to be updated processes. So currently, the title we write for the boss is all about the traffic. So we have our most relevant keywords at the front and without being super technical when you do that you have a great (inaudible 19:59.8) which means the boss loved it. Those search terms are going to give you the most relevant traffic. So after your title, you have bullet points and those bullet points are (inaudible 20:09.9). You want to go ahead and sell, sell, sell. It is not just like the futures of the product is wireless. Forget the fact it is wireless. Tell them they are never going to have to get tangled up to the wall. They are going to be able to unplug and do whatever they need to do. Give them the benefit of the benefit. Just ask yourself. You know it as a copywriter. Ask yourself why is that matter. Why did they care. Why should they care and by the time you get to the 5th time of answering it that is what you need to write. The benefit of the benefit. Also, you need to end with the call to action. It is silly, but when you tell people to buy it, they buy it and 3% increase in conversion just on that little thing there. So in with your last bullet point is a call to action and the same with your product description. Forget about what it is. You are really selling who it is for. You are selling people their identity and so talk about their life circumstance when they are feeling like they need to buy and then again, end with a call to action. Jeremy Reeves: What you just said is beautiful. I hope people pick up and that you are selling like themselves their identity. That is absolutely beautiful. I love that. So everybody listen to that. And also real quick before you keep going. An easy thing from the bullets right, because a lot of people only do the features or they only do the benefits. What I found works really well is doing like kind of a feature, but then you say -- so it is like, whatever you know, a purple nozzle right which means and then you go to the benefit you know, which means whatever, it looks beautiful or you know, whatever the benefit is. Brad DeGraw: Yes. In the benefits as well as creating an infographic. So, because people want to feel like they are educated without actually going to the process of being educated. And infographics are great for that you know, do your little arrows, your callouts and tell them why that matters to them and why this one is the best one on the planet because it has XYZ. Jeremy Reeves: Yeah, I love that and nobody has infographics on Amazon. That is awesome. Brad DeGraw: So few. Jeremy Reeves: Yeah. And I always noticed because I actually just saw one -- I was buying a green -- like a powdered greens thing and by the way, if anybody is not drinking powdered greens in the morning, you definitely should. I know it is a huge difference. Number one, my heartburn, because I suffered from heartburns since I was like 16. Also, like just energy throughout the day you know, it is huge. But anyway, I noticed -- I forgot if it was the one that I bought or not, but when I was looking at a couple of them, the first thing that I looked at was the label right, the design of the product and then the second thing was, I think I picked like 3 of them to kind of compare. The one with the infographic, I was on significantly longer. Like looking at it you know then the other ones, because the other ones are just bullet, bullet and then the one had an infographic it was gorgeous. It was like showing all the different things you know, it had pictures (inaudible 23:08.3) individual ingredients and I was reading about that one significantly longer you know. I forgot if I bought that one or not. I definitely look again, but I remember like as you were saying, I kind of get the flashback of being back there. Brad DeGraw: Yeah (inaudible 23:24.9) make great buying decisions. Like the whole point of the listing is to help people making a quick buying decision towards you. That is what Amazon does really well is they shortcut the shopping process down to where -- I want it. One-click purchase is on the way before you realized, wait, I just bought that thing. That is what Amazon is genius for. Jeremy Reeves: Yeah. I suffered from that all the time. So how about you know, one of the huge downfalls with Amazon is that, they do not really give you the customer you know what I mean like you cannot really like synch it with you know, Infusionsoft or whatever you use in for emails and (inaudible 24:06.1). Do you have any kind of like ninja tricks for getting Amazon customers into -- so you can then follow up with them better? Brad DeGraw: Yes. Jeremy Reeves: Oh, nice. Brad DeGraw: Okay, so we have to make sure that we do not compromise the account. So Amazon allows you to reach out to customers for customer service issues. This is within the terms of service. If you are going out there and saying, hey, buy a cheaper on my website. You are risking your account, your business model can have to shift radically. So what you do is you make sure every communication has customer service in it. So you can put in product inserts. So on site A, we tell you how to use the best product or how to get the best results from the product and then on the back side of it, we will say, do not forget, you get to join our VIP program for no cost. Here is the link. Go over here for promos, samples, and special offers. And then as soon as they put their email in and you know, it is just going to be a squeeze page, soon as they put their email in we have a thank you page that says as promised, here is a promo, a special offer, or a sample. And now you are there. You can (inaudible 25:14.5) so there are happy Amazon customer and there are VIP. So you can do product inserts. You can also -- I do not recommend this, this is going to take a lot of time if you are soloproneur, but you can actually reach out to them by phone and just want to make sure you are happy with your order, that is called customer service. You did that. And then once they are done, (inaudible 25:33.8) yes or no whatever they say, just listen. If they are not happy just give them a refund and hang up the phone. Do not try to (inaudible 25:40.9). Just give them their money back and call it a day. However, if they are happy, then you can say, oh great, I do not know if you know, some people miss this but you are actually able to join our VIP program and you get special promos and coupons and discounts and offers. If you want, I can send you the link you know, it is in that insert it is just you know, name of our company.com/specialoffer. Done. Jeremy Reeves: Yeah and you know, think about -- because I saw a lot of high ticket stuff so like think about, if you had, you can use Amazon. If you have let us just say, you are in -- you are selling like a new tropic, right. Do you know what a new tropic is? Brad DeGraw: Oh yeah. Jeremy Reeves: So you are selling a new tropic. So if anybody does not know what that means, it is basically a brain pill, right. It is supposed to -- it is kind of like the movie, Limitless. It essentially makes your brain work better so you have more concentration and you know, less brain fog that kind of thing. So let us just say that you have a supplement and you could probably label supplement really easily. You put it on Amazon and then you have some type of high level entrepreneurial coaching program right. Those are the types of people that that product attracts you know what I mean like, when you -- like people buying new tropics are just kind of regular (inaudible 26:54.1) you know, working at McDonald’s or whatever. I mean (inaudible 26:56.6) but you know, the majority are you are like a high performance type of situation you know and you need your brain to be you know, working really well all time. So you can then use that call to then like you have, like an automated webinar selling a high ticket whatever program or service or coaching or whatever it is. And you know, if you make a 100 calls and you get 2 people on -- like 2 sales you know, from each 100 calls for that you know, $2,000 program, well then, it is a very much worth it you know, calling them. And you know, you just hire a sales person that says you know, hey, you know, call these people and you get a percent you know, so you are not -- you are only paying them out of money you made already you know. So I mean, there are a lot of different ways to do it even if you just have a higher level or higher you know, price product, you know, it does not have to be $2,000, but yeah I mean it is you know, and you can just pay people based on commissions. All you have to do is make a script for them and then there is nothing else you know what I mean. So it is very easy to make that work and the reason I brought that up is because that is what I tell you know, my audience all the time. If people are not calling their customers, it is the biggest wasted opportunity in the history of the world you know what I mean. So I highly recommend if you have something on Amazon, try to figure out a way to make that work because it can be definitely huge you know. Brad DeGraw: I love phone sales that is my background. So to me, when I get someone on the phone whatever I am selling it is done. So email marketing is great because it scales. Phone is a little bit slower, but once you get good at listening to people and understanding what their real problem, fantasy, and desires, you can close those deals I mean sometimes or half the time depending on you know, how steep your offer is. Jeremy Reeves: Yeah, definitely. And you have to remember they are buyers too you know, even you know, calling a 100 buyers and making 2 sales is probably really low you know what I mean. Depending on the price point you know if you are selling $100,000 program you know, obviously, but yeah, I mean it is you know, you have a good salesman that is doing it for you and not someone that is just going to say, hey you know, buy my stuff, buy my stuff, here is what I need you know. If you actually have a good salesman that you know, like you said, listens to them and finds out why you know, they are having the problem and what the problem is and then you match that with solution you know, it is done you know. Brad DeGraw: Yes. Jeremy Reeves: Any other ways to get them you know, to kind of monetize the buyer? Brad DeGraw: Those are the 2 easiest one. So you have product insert. So you can just go to (inaudible 29:26.9) print business cards or postcards. Second one is phone. The third one, some smart people nowadays are coming up with some software that can plug it into Facebook. So yes we have the buyer’s name and phone number. So Facebook has a nice you know, audience generator. It is not 100% -- nothing is a 100%, but there is some software coming out now and it is doing pretty fair where you can grab that information from Amazon and put it into Facebook. I am not a lawyer. I do not know the ethics of whether this is legal or appropriate. There are so many different laws. So follow your moral compass. If this does not feel like something that works for you, do not do it. Jeremy Reeves: Yeah and it is really you know, I mean you could do that with email list, so it is really no different, it is just a phone number you know what I mean. It is just kind of the same -- you are doing the same thing. I mean people use their email list to build you know, look like audiences and things like that all the time you know what I mean. Yeah, I love it. So how about -- is there anything that like any kind of you know, do not do that, that Amazon kicks people off for, you know what I mean. So like for example, I know that you cannot put like a thousand links to your website and like you know, push them away from the Amazon experience essentially you know, is there any more stuff like that? Brad DeGraw: Yeah. There is 1 cardinal rule on Amazon. No customer should ever feel deceived. So as long as you are not thing that could lead to deception. So if your product does not have batteries and you are showing a picture with the batteries in it. Even if you say, batteries not included with a little star, that could lead to deception. If anyone thinks that you are deceiving them, you are out. Like you said, if you -- you have this great Amazon page which is saying do not buy it here, buy it there. That is deceptive because the whole Amazon experience is to have Amazon grow their customer base. So those are the big ones. There are some incidence especially depending on your market. If you are in supplements that is kind of a black hat space where a lot of people are not playing by the same rules. There are people who will -- your competition, there is someone out there who will play dirty and they will call Amazon. They will buy the product and then they will call Amazon and say, hey my babies have been born naked it is because of this supplement. I have headaches and nausea and -- (inaudible 31:51.7) you know like well, I mean the human body is pretty complex. How are you going to say that your thing is because of my thing. Were you pregnant. Did you drink during the day. Like what your thing. And that is kind of a gotcha space. So if you are new and you are kind of fragile, you do not want to play with those folks, I stay out of the supplement space. Jeremy Reeves: Yeah and I have -- I do a lot of work in that space and I fully agree. They are going to do anything to make it work. I do not personally work with people like that, but I work with a lot of companies that really, really like you know, high level companies, but I know they told me stories of things you know. It is the same thing in merchant accounts like they will call and do charge back and they will call and say that they got you know, like dupe into something or there are some kind of a fraud or I mean it is just -- it is a rough industry. It is the backstreets of Harlem essentially. Brad DeGraw: So if you can stay out of those. If you are new and you want to have some success and feel good experience, stay out of those markets. I would stay into pet space or baby products, something where you can make the world a better place and it is maybe a little less crowded. Jeremy Reeves: And you should be doing that anyway you know. Brad DeGraw: Exactly. Jeremy Reeves: You know, it is kind of like anything else. I mean, like the smaller the niches you know, there is kind of like that you know, you are down here and the niche is like really small and but it is really easy to succeed and yeah, maybe you might not turn into a billion company, but the odds of succeeding is huge, whereas, the higher you go, the more potential there is you know, for like a bigger and bigger and bigger business, but it is that much its exponentially harder to actually get to that point you know what I mean. Brad DeGraw: You nailed it. Jeremy Reeves: So you have to have something that is like totally just you know, blows everything else out of the water or totally transforming ever you know, like just -- like a game changer you know what I mean. An industry disruptor. But yeah I mean you know, if anybody is interested in doing that I would definitely recommend starting and that is what I am going to do. Like I eventually do it, I might do like kind of a side project you know what I mean maybe if I sell one of my side businesses or something I will replace it with that, but yeah, I mean, I would definitely start with something smaller you know, versus like going into like the health space or something like that. How about -- one last question before we hop off. How about doing things so like and you might not even focus on this area, but you know, there is like selling the physical products, but then what about things like Kindle you know like selling books or PDFs or things like that you know for Kindle. Do you have any experience on that area? Brad DeGraw: Oh yeah. There is a bit of a crossover if you are creative. So the great thing about Kindle books is they are reading them on the screen. So it is easy to get them from this screen, this book, over to anywhere you want. So you can lead them from Kindle over to your product. You can lead them from Kindle to your squeeze page. The smart, smart marketers are putting Kindle books out with tons of links back to squeeze pages and then now you have a list that is the real (inaudible 34:59.1). You are not going to make much money on the book. And now that list, you can drive them anywhere you want over to your physical product, back over to a more digital products. It totally works. We did some work for (inaudible 35:11.2) brand and there is a lot of bootlegs out there at cash flow game and some of them are great looking bootlegs, but they are still illegitimate. So what we did is we said, hey Robert, why don’t you just put a 1 page kind of letter telling people how to integrate those lessons into their life so they can improve their lives in their business and we will have this as an exclusive bonus. We can easily copywrite that letter and anyone who jumps on the listing and said, hey, we are selling this too. They are doing one of two things either fraud because they do not have the letter or copywriting infringement. Either way it is easier for us to (inaudible 35:49.1). Jeremy Reeves: Yeah. It is easier to find them. Yeah. Oh, that is awesome. I love that. That is smart. I am going to think about that even with (inaudible 35:55.7) products and stuff like that because it is you know, as soon as you put something online, it is like all the freakin you know, idiots go and you know, put somewhere you know, but that is the, unfortunately, that is the world we live in. Well that is -- you know, definitely been an interesting conversation for me because I have been personally thinking about it and I know a lot of our audience has also been you know, and plus there are just a lot of entrepreneurs on here that just like the you know, they like to try new things and dabble on new areas and things like that. The last question that I have for you is, is there any question that I should have ask and I did not or like some kind of point that I missed or anything that you know, if you got off, you would be like, oh I wish the audience knew this you know, is there any kind of last lesson or you know clarifying thought. Brad DeGraw: Yeah, absolutely. The thing that you might want to think about that did not come up is ask yourself what is this thing or any other thing is. What is the difference between those who are going to succeed and those who are just going to try it and then move on. So (inaudible 36:55.9) what I found, we teach this all day every day. The people who are successful here are those that make up their mind. They know their outcome and they lean forward. You can still sit down and do this business but if you are sitting on the couch you need to lean forward towards the coffee table and bang this (inaudible 37:10.9) rather than leaning back and get over the Netflix. So that is the key. That is what I found, is the key to this business and everything else will pursue. Jeremy Reeves: Yeah, I mean you got to you know, if you are going to try it do not just you know, try for 2 weeks and no, it did not work and just go to the next. Yeah, definitely lean in forward. Alright. I had a great time chatting you know so everybody again this is Brad DeGraw and Brad, why don’t you tell them you know, if they want to get in touch, I know you have various services for helping people do all this you know, so why don’t you tell people how to get in touch with you if they want to you know, lean forward so to speak. Brad DeGraw: Excellent. Yeah, just catch up with us on amazonsherpa.com. We have a newsletter. We send out every Wednesday. So it is tips, tricks, stories about what is working right now in our business. This week is really, really good newsletter and then yeah, if you guys need help, I am happy to jump on like a 20-minute call either to help you get started or if you are already rolling and you need to take it to the next level just jump on our schedule and I am happy to jump on in one-to-one call. Jeremy Reeves: Sounds good. Hey, well, thanks again. I really appreciate it coming on here. Brad DeGraw: Excellent. Thanks for having me.

Hey guys! In today's episode we discuss MANY ways you can easily steal from me to convert more of your "on the fence" prospects into first time buyers and raving fans. Enjoy!   Resources Mentioned iTunes Transcript: Jeremy Reeves: Hey everybody Jeremy Reeves here with another episode of The Sales Funnel Mastery Podcast and today I want to talk about a pretty cool product, not product, but I just looked at the word product, but topic and that is called Product Splintering, right. And I am going to kind of show you -- you know some of you may be familiar with this you know, with this term, it is essentially you know, splintering up a piece of your product and giving it to somebody in a cheaper a price, okay. That is kind of the same -- that is kind of like you know the (inaudible 0:45.5) of it, but I am going to kind of give you a couple different ways that you can take that concept okay and use it in your business you know. You guys know, one of my main skills I think that I have in my life is that I am able to take ideas from you know, one industry and use it another. I got that actually from J. Abraham, he is kind of the you know, the one that really taught me of that skill and it is you know, comes in handy a lot. I cannot even begin to imagine or to describe how often I may able to use that skill to get better results in business you know. If there is one skill that you really want is to be able to do that because if you look inside your own industry, everybody is you know, it is kind of like incest you know, everybody is kind of doing the same thing, a little bit of (inaudible 1:33.4) there. But anyway, so, the reason I thought of this right, I just took my dogs to the groomer, okay. Katie is out with the boys, Connor’s therapy and so she has the car and so I had to take the dogs to the groomer. So on my way back, I have been wanting to try -- there is a coffee place by my house and normally, I have my own coffee you know, I -- like have my own kind of process, I am little bit of a geeky with the you know with coffee you know, I get the whole beans and I have a French press and like this whole big process, so I am kind of picky with it. So I do not really like things like Dunkin Donuts and Starbucks and that kind of thing just you know, I am just not a huge fan of it you know. I do not know, whatever, but I usually get that, like if I am out, you know, I normally do not get coffee all that much when I am out because I you know, again, I am kind of picky and I usually just make my own or whatever, but there is one coffee place I went in by our house and it is like, this little locally owned you know, it is not a big you know, mass kind of chain store that kind of thing. It is just that you know, there is this nice lady, I was just talking to her and you know, just a small little store you know, it is not a chain, it got all homemade stuff and that kind of thing. So, I drive by -- this place is probably maybe a quarter of a mile from my house so where we are is basically like I live in a place where were on the maid ave. going through our town, but behind my house there is woods and stuff like that and it is all very you know, kind of naturistic, but then like, literally you go down like a quarter of a mile down the road and there is a big you know, shopping center and there are all kinds of restaurants and shopping places and like all that kind of stuff. So it is an awesome place to be. So this you know, this lady opens up her coffee store in that little you know, shopping complex and I have been wanting to try it. So, I finally did today right and I love the coffee and the first thing that came to my head was she needs -- because you know, if you think about it, I mean she is -- she is selling coffee right, it is nothing you know, it is nothing unique you know, everybody has coffee. There is like 84, 000 coffee stores usually either something like a Dunkin Donuts or Starbucks you know, there is like 19 of them every town. So I literally took the first step in the Coffee’s Fantastic. It is going to be my new favorite place to go. The thought that immediately hit me was this lady needs to get her foot in the door with clients, right. So I want you to think of -- just think in your head. I am going to give you a second. Think in your head, I am going to give you a little challenge here you know. Think in the head what would you do? So you own a coffee store, there is a Dunkin Donuts, there is Starbucks, all those kinds of things nearby. What would you do to get business, to market yourself right. So I am going to give you a couple of seconds. I am actually going to take a drink of coffee while you are thinking. Okay. So, here is what I came up with right. What I would do is, I would just get -- I would hire you know -- I would get like a shit of paper like something super cheap little postcard or business card or something like that probably just a business card you can get like freaking 10,000 of them for like $100. So printed on a business card and just put you know, whatever like you know, we are new, I want you know, we think that we have the best coffee in the Valley, where I live is called the Valley. So we have the best coffee in the valley but I do want you like I know that it is hard to you know, you probably already had your favorite coffee store and the copy would not be this long by the way, this is just kind of off on top of my head, but you know, you probably already have your favorite coffee store and you know, the problem with doing this is that people are set in their ways. You have to break them of the habit that they are in right, to get them to come to you especially with coffee. People have their habits with coffee. So you have to break them of that habit and what you would essentially say is, hey, all I want you to do is just come in, coffee is on me, you do not have to play a dime, it is totally free and I just want you -- you know, essentially, like hey, if you love the coffee come back you know, if you do not, keep going wherever you are going you know, no hard feelings, that is you know, whatever. And all she would have to do is get a business card, I do not know -- I mean they are like you know, they are like 10 cents a piece. So say, you went out to 10,000 people right at 10 cents a piece that is what is that, $100 right. And say that a half of a percent switched over to you. Well half of a percent of 10,000 people is, let us see, 1% would be 100 so it is 50 people, that is 50 new customers right and the average coffee drinker probably spends I do not know probably you know, just say $30 a month right and it is probably more of that because I think mine was like $2. So you know, that is basic coffee every other day right. So you know, say you know, $30 a month you get 50 people, that is $1500 a month for spending $100 right and you just keep doing that, you are only risking $100. You are getting $1,500 back right and that is not even including you know, they had donuts and they had you know, biscuits and they had sandwiches and like all those kind of stuff. That is $1,500 well if you did that in you know all the surrounding areas you could very easily get that up to you know $100,000 business right and that is just with that you know, then you can do a whole bunch of other stuff, but that is just with that. That is only at $30 a month which is just probably a little bit low for you know for a coffee place. I mean you know, if you are spending you know $2, $3, or $4 for a coffee I mean it is, you know, it is a very easy to spend $30 a month on coffee. So that is kind of the way that -- so basically, the whole you know, (inaudible 7:45.8) to that is, if you have something right, and essentially, like I look at it in like a 2 prong approach you know, you do your regular promotions and -- by the way, you can do this even if you have a high end service and I am going to show you how to do this with the service or product and something like a joint venture, right. So if you have a service, okay, think of what you can do to get your foot in the door, right. What is your foot in the door offer? Okay. A lot of times with me, you know, I have people and you know, you know that our fees are typically like you know, in the high 4 figures, 5 figures you know, that kind of thing. We are not cheap right. It is not like you are spending you know $500 or a couple $100 or something on copy like you know, our fees are you know, pretty high up there. They are not you know, not at the top of the industry, but they are you know, they are not inexpensive to someone who you know, is struggling with money, right. So a lot of times what I do -- essentially, what I do is basically say like you know, I get a lot of people and they are like, look you know, I want to do this funnel, but look, it is like $15,000 or $10,000 or $20,000 or whatever it is and you know, I am just kind of a little bit you know, little bit anxious you know, they are always -- I get this a lot you know, I see other results blah, blah, blah, but you know, I kind of want to see if it works for me and that is totally acceptable. I totally get that you know what I mean that make sense. So I get some clients that do that and what I will say is, okay, let us figure it out you know, the project is going to be whatever, $10,000 to say and how about lets us just do like one part of it for like you know, $2,000 or something like that and you look at that if you like the copy then we will keep, we will just keep going right and I have done that a lot of times so you can see like rather than them looking at as a $10,000 investment it is now $2,000 right, so it is a fifth of the price and what happens is you know, I have done that with -- oh my God I do not know how many dozens of clients and I am very proud of the fact that I do that you know fairly frequently and I have never once had a single persona that started that process and did not go through with the project, okay. So if you are selling a high ticket service do not be afraid to offer something lower to get people just to get their foot and get your foot in the door with them with the relationship, okay. So that is how you can do with the service and same thing with you know, with the coffee shop you know, you are just taking that principle that concept and applying it to a coffee shop. So the coffee shop, the foot in the door is, “Hey, come in and try our free coffee” you know coffee for her it is super cheap I mean it is probably, I do not know 10 cents a cup, something like that. So you know, it is almost risk-free for her you know, she is spending $100 or $200 to get in front of like 10,000 people you know what I mean. So that is you know, a kind of another example. So let us do this with the product. So you have a product say, it is $200 right. So you have this and you have whatever 8 modules, what you can do with that is for people who you know, you first start off with your best foot forward right. So you say, hey you know, the product is -- there are 8 modules it is going to teach you how to do XXX and you know it is $200 okay. So you are going to get a certain percentage of people that are going to say, “Hell yeah, I want that. It is $200, it is going to help me. I am going to buy it.” Those are the people they are like your hyper buyers essentially because they are going to buy it you know and they will buy it, you do not have to like hassle them you know whatever. There is just going to -- they love you. They love your product. They are going to buy it. Then you are also going to have the people that are just never going to buy right and who cares about them, they do not you know, they do not matter. Do not talk to them. On huge strategy by the way while I am here is find out who those people are and then you know in your -- you know, in your ads, in your targeting, in your copy you know exactly who to push away because the farther you push those people away the inverse happens with the people that you know, if they are on the left side and your perfect clients on the right side. Well, if you push away the clients on the left side, guess what happens, the people on the right side come closer to you, you know, they resonate that much stronger. So it is one really you know, important thing to note is that you should do that and find out who is not buying and make sure you are pushing them away because it is going to attract the people that will buy right. So anyway, going back, you can say, hey look you know, I understand $200 is expensive for you by the way if that is expensive if people are buying it you know, $200 for price. You may want to look at your copy and because it might not be demonstrating enough value right. So just quick little side note there. But you can say, you know, maybe you follow up them like a 10-day campaign selling the $200 course, they are not buying it then maybe you wait like a week or two weeks and then you can have another campaign that number one, you can give them a free trial or some template like you know, a lower priced trial maybe $200 is like you know, they spend I do not know $10 or something and they get a trial of it or you can say, hey look, I understand that this whole you know, maybe it is too overwhelming, maybe it is you know, maybe you just do not think that you have the time, maybe it is not in his priority, maybe it is the price whatever it is. Why do not you just take one of the modules. See if you resonate with my concept, my message, my you know, my ideas and then if you love it, then you can buy the whole thing right. So that is what you can do with you know, with products right. And then another way to do this is -- so I recently -- I have been going after you know, this certain guy, I have been trying to kind of get on his radar for I do not know, it is probably been 2 to 3 years now right and I am a pretty persistent guy you know, if I want to get on somebody’s radar I eventually will it is just kind of the matter of time. So there is this 1 guy that I have been wanting to kind of partner up with on some things. He is a very, very, very well known marketer. Probably 90 plus percent of the people listening to this podcast read his blog, right. That is where he does most of his market is through his -- he is a very, very, very prolific content marketer, okay. And he has several businesses, they are you know, couple SAS companies, they are all you know, 7 or 8 figures. So you know, there is a lot going on and I realized that if I partner up with him on some things, they could lead to a lot of different things, right. So for the last kind of 2 years, I have been you know, just kind of staying in touch, kind of putting my name in front of him that kind of thing. And you know, recently, I realized that he has a partner you know, in his business that is kind of like his you know, to say his wingman, right. He is like his you know, his second in command, his right hand man you know that kind of thing. So I realized that it is probably a lot easier building a relationship with his right hand man than it is with him you know, because he trusts you know, his -- let us just call him his partner just for easy terminology. He trusts his partner so if I you know, get in good with his partner then therefore I would kind of get into the -- into his whole business and that is exactly what happened, right. And you know recently, there is you know, we have been in touch of like 4 different ways that were partnering you know, so he is you know, he is sending me clients and we are -- I am actually doing a project for him and you know, there is a life of all these different things and it is because it is the same concept and this what I mean by taking it one concept and applying it in several different ways right. I am taking that product splintering concept or that foot in the door concept and using it in several different ways. So in this way, you know, I am using my foot in the door was with his partner, okay, because I knew that you know, the way to his -- kind of like you know, when you are dating, you know, the way to the girls heart is through the parents you know what I mean, is through like you know, if you are trying to date a girl you know, talk to her mom you know, become really good like really you know, kind of cuddly whatever with you know, with her mom and then her mom is going to be like, oh you know, Crissy this guy he is so nice, I mean he is handsome and you know that kind of thing. So it is the same thing. And yes, I mean that is pretty much it. So basically -- kind of a quick recap. If you are selling a high -- if you are selling any kind of service right and you want to gain access to a huge part of your audience, a huge chunk of your audience that is on the fence right and you want to push them over the fence, do something where you can take a piece of what you normally give clients and give it to them at not reduce rate, you do not want just discount your rates because that is horrible for everybody, but you want to give it to him at a cheaper price by giving them less, but you know, take like, if there is something in your business where you can get them a really good result in a quick way, you know, just give them -- like think of a quick win, it is huge when you are selling your services, okay. The same thing, it does not even matter what you are selling really. And then products you know, think about free trials or removing a section or anything where you know if people having excuses they are close, they are right on the fence, but they need just that little extra push. Think of how you can do that. And then the same thing if you want to get your foot in the door with people right. For joint ventures, affiliates whatever it is, think of little ways just you know, very slowly chipping away adding value to the life it is always about adding value and that is what I was doing with his partner by the way was, I was helping him basically you know, they were coming up with a new funnel and you know, he is like, oh you know, what do you think about this and I went and I say, hey, let me just help you figure this whole thing out, right. And then you know, when we were done, he is like, alright you know, what do you charge like you know, to actually build this all out for us and I gave him a price and you know, we are getting started this week. So think of it that way like if you want to get on somebody’s radar, add value to them and just little by little do not go from not knowing them to just jumping in and being like, hey, you know, I am here, I am here, give me business, give me work. I want your money you know, like that is not how -- you know, that is not how you build relationships you know, you first reached out to them just so they recognize you, okay. The first step is recognition right, just so they recognize your name. So comment on their blog you know, send them an email and just say, hey, your recent podcast or your blog was awesome, I really loved it you know, send them a gift. I can tell you, you know, you guys know I am huge, I love bourbon right. I am not a huge drinker, but when I drink, I really love you know, the different types of alcohol. Like I love craft beers and really good wines and really good bourbon and you know, things like that, like I do not drink that frequently you know, like on the weekends you know, like a normal person, but when I do, I like to drink really good stuff because I love that experience. I am very kind of experiential kind of guy. Same thing with food you know, I love the experience of eating you know, as funny as that sounds you know, I love like you know, the different flavors and the combinations and like I do not know, I just love the whole thing. So anyway, so if someone sent me you know, like if someone is trying to get on my radar, by the way, I am not saying to do this, but if someone want me to on my radar, if you sent me a bottle of bourbon, you would instantly be my best friend. Like you would, instantly, I would never forget your name right, just from that and it is like whatever like $30 or $40 for a bottle of bourbon. And that is all it takes you know, just get your name out there and do something so they are going to just recognize you and then you start slowly adding value to their life, right. I have a lot of copywriters who want you know, they want me to help them in their business and they will reach out to me and say, hey, I do not even want any money, let me just help you with the product. All I want is your feedback, your critique, right. I get that all the time with people. And I have helped a lot of copywriters you know. I have helped a lot of copywriters do that and because it is valuable. I did the same thing when I was just starting copywriter you know, it is a huge strategy and you know, if you are in any kind of like expertise field do that with somebody. If you want to learn really, really fast and you cannot afford to pay someone to be a mentor, just do something for them for free, right. And of course you know, you have to have like in my case, I have to look at them to make sure their copy is good first, like it has to be kind of up to a certain level first because you know, they are going to write something for them it is going to be awful and I mean, it would take me longer to edit it than it would for me to write it myself you know what I mean. So like there has to be that foundation there first, but you know, I can tell you like I have gotten a lot of free copy because of that and you know, and it is worth for them too because I critique them on the copy and I you know, I helped them kind of through the whole process you know what I mean. So anyway, that is it for the day you know, I hope this helps. I hope I gave you a lot of things to think about today you know, just a lot of this comes back to just being resourceful you know, a lot of entrepreneurs are like, oh I do not have this or I do not have money, I do not have time, I do not have you know, the resources. No. The resources do not matter. What matters is you being resourceful. You do not need that stuff, right. You do not need money to start a business, okay. You do not need expertise to start a business, right. You can start business in any way possible. You can market your product in any way possible. If there is anybody out there right now, saying that they cannot grow because they do not have funds, that is absolute horse shit, I am sorry. It really is you know, and I do not mean to be like insensitive, but I just want you to -- I want you to look at that belief that you need money to grow, okay. I want you to look at that and smash it with a hammer, right, because it is not true, okay. It is not true at all, okay. That is the biggest one, is money and that is why you know, kind of singling that one out. You do not need money. Money is you know, a byproduct of being successful. You do not need money to become successful. It helps. If you have money, you know, you can speed up the process, you accelerate the process, but you absolutely do not need money to become successful, okay. And if you -- if that is one of your beliefs right now, it is totally cool by the way, I have a lot of bad beliefs in my past as well. Get rid of it, okay. Re-analyze that belief. Figure out why you have that belief and then say, okay. I have zero dollars, what can I do to be successful and that is when your brain starts coming up solutions. You have to give your brain a problem solve then it is going to come up solutions, okay. So you know, I know I kind of went on a (inaudible 23:06.4) a little bit today. I know sometimes I do that, this definitely is not the most polished podcast in the entire world. I think you guys like that because I get comments on that all the time of how it is like you know, I have never come to this with a script. Usually, I do not even have any kind of outline. I kind of just have the you know, the idea and I just start talking about it. That is exactly what I did today. But anyway, so I hope you are enjoying the podcast guys. You know, like always, the numbers are continuing to grow. You guys are awesome. I am getting emails all the time just you guys saying how much you enjoy the podcast. That really does mean a lot to me by the way. Just reaching out and saying, hey, just wanting to let you know I loved your latest episode on you know whatever, here is how it helped me. That really like -- I actually love getting those emails. They go to my support. So it is support at jeremyreeves.com, but they forward me every single one of those and even if I do not reply, I promise you, I am looking at it every single one of them. And I really like -- I love to help people you know, if you guys have you know, known me for a long time, you know that I get such tremendous satisfaction just from helping people you know what I mean. It makes me feel just awesome, just to know that I am helping someone you know what I mean. So if this is helping you, you know, make sure that you are sharing it with people. Help us continue to you know, to grow this. I have a whole bunch of interviews coming up. We just launched -- we are doing video podcasting now, we are actually, I just did my an interview yesterday were actually, I think that interview is going to go live next week or the week after, I forget. We are adding questions in there so like you know, kind of like lightning questions to get to know the you know, the guest a little bit better. I am looking and reaching out for bigger and bigger and bigger guest you know. I have done a lot of kind of underground guest and I am going to start mixing that up with some bigger name guest you know, that you guys I think will enjoy. So yeah, there is a lot of cool stuff coming up with the podcast. It is only going to get better as you help continue to grow because the more the podcast grows, the more time I can allocate to it, right. It really just as simple as that. It is just simple business decision. So you guys are the guys and girls by the way that help this grow. So make sure that you are telling people about it. Make sure that you are you know, you leave a review and remember, when you leave a review, we are giving you free stuff you know, we are giving you my 101 Conversion Tips you know, PDF. So make sure you are doing that because you know, reviews help us grow so much, so they are so important. So if you like this, that would be the single biggest thing that you can do to help us out is to leave a review and just tell people about it you know. If it comes up in conversations or you know, put it on your blog or whatever you know, tell your mom about it, I do not know. Anybody who is a business owner. So anyway, that is it for the day. As always, you know, share this you know, tell people about it. Give us a review on iTunes and then also, if you are interested in working with us, then reach out to support@jeremyreeves.com and let me know a little bit about you, about your business and I will let you know if I can help you know. If you have ever talk to me you know that I am very, very candid. If I cannot help you or if I do not think I am the best person to help you, I would just flat out tell you that, right, and I get a lot of people that you know, I tell that to them. I probably tell more people that I cannot help them than I can -- than I tell that I can help them, if that make sense you know, and it is because I only want, when I take on a new client, I want to know with 100% you know, certainty that I am going to be able to help them you know what I mean. So anyway, that is it. I will stop my ramble here and I look forward to seeing you next time.

In this episode, we chat with Arel Moodie who hosts The Art Of Likability podcast. Arel and I chat about using the power of likability to dramatically grow your business in unique ways that most of your competitors aren’t using. We even talk about how he leveraged his own “X” factor to get asked to write and speak for huge companies, including the White House itself! Resources Mentioned Forbes Huffington Post Facebook Instagram LinkedIn Stitcher Artoflikability.com Transcript Jeremy Reeves: Hey what is going on guys. This is Jeremy here with the sales funnel mastery, and this is our fist video interview. So I am kind of excited about it and Arel kind of gets to be a part of that. So the guy you are looking at here, his name is Arel Moodie and he is a best-selling author and host of the top career podcast on iTunes which is The Art Of Likability. I highly recommend it, go check it out, you know, you are probably on your phone now, so go in there and you know, go download it now. He is also the founder of the College Success Program and True Speaking Success and he has been -- here comes all the good stuff, right. He has been a contributor to Forbes and Huffington Post on the topic of likability which is what we are going to talk about today and how to kind of use likability in marketing and he has given TED talks on Likability. He was named to INC Magazine 30 under 30 list. Featured in USA Today, New York Times, PBS, Business Week, Black Enterprise, essence in Young Money magazine. There is still more. As a professional speaker, he spoken over 375,000 in 48 states and 5 countries and has actually been a guest speaker at the White House which is kind of awesome. He has used Likability to go from kid on welfare in the projects of Brooklyn to running multiple 6 and 7 figure businesses and it is actually kind of funny. I actually loved the show Ellen of video of him accidentally hitting his son on the head with a basketball went viral and ended up on the show Ellen, Ellen deGeneres, if you guys are not familiar with that. So welcome, so that is quite a list and it is not even -- I was reading your bio before this and it is not even all of it. It is just like the condensed version. Arel Moodie: Thanks a lot Jeremy, I appreciate you having me on the show and I am really to talk about the subject of Likability and marketing specifically because I think the 2 were so married together that when you can really combined them so they are not like fighting over alimony and they are actually a cohesive couple. It is game changing. So I appreciate what you doing with your podcast and honored to be the first video --. Jeremy Reeves: We are excited. We are just making sure that the video actually work because it is the first time I was doing it and I am like let me do a test run first you know. But yeah, so I mean you know, I gave your into but you know, tell everybody, go a little bit deeper you know. Who are you? Who do you help? What do you do in life? Arel Moodie: Yeah, so you know, I pretty much got introduced to entrepreneurship as a concept when I was in college. I had a really awesome professor and when I was in college, I started my first internet business which was helping college students find (inaudible 2:37.3) and kind of by doing that business it was great because I realized how much of the world they did not know you know, I was a kid from a project I was you know from welfare in Brooklyn like I had no connections, no nothing, so I am literally starting from this point of I want to change my life and improve it but I do not have anyone. And what was interesting is as I was building that business and then eventually went into another business called Extreme Entrepreneurship Tour which we later changed to Empact for Entrepreneurial Empact. We basically went to students across the country for colleges and we told them like being an entrepreneur is awesome like you know, we wanted occupational therapy make entrepreneurship a viable career path. So people would say like, I want to be a doctor or lawyer. We wanted entrepreneur to be that. So now we feel like it is actually is that which is awesome, but when we started, it was kind of like, you an entrepreneur you could not get higher you know, but what was interesting of doing that real estate business and then doing the entrepreneurial education business was I was building the skill that I did not even consciously know I was building which was this idea of Likability because we had to get people who did not know what at all to want and trust us, to want to give us a shot, to want to work with us and I started reading tons of books on you know, an (inaudible 3:50.1) social persuasion but a lot of it honestly came from just being in the field like how do you get you know, the White House to answer your call? How do you get you know, these people who literally you do not have connections but then there are these ways of doing it and the thing that I realized above everything is that relationships with people. Like anything you want in the world is literally one phone call away from someone. So if you have the right relationship, you can actually change your life in. That is why I kind of came about like the Art of Likability. I wanted to you know, take all these things that would not necessarily fit into my speaking engagements that I do. I do a lot with The College Success Program that is more for colleges and high school students, and through speaking success is teaching people how to become a professional speaker, but the Art of Likability was like I did not really fit into any of those categories. And that is why I decided to come up with a podcast and start writing about it and blogging, just creating content around it because I felt it was so game changing and it is kind of taking off from there very organically become one of the top itunes, podcast and a lot of you know, speaking engagements have come because of it, but it is really just helping people build relationships and connection with people so they can do a great work. Jeremy Reeves: Yeah, yeah, that is awesome. So I have a question, but I have to kind of bring it back to you know, one of the things that you said, because I get a lot of people and they are like, especially a lot of service you know, service providers or people that have kind of digital products and they are trying to build this relationships you know, and I think -- So how did you get on the radar of the White House you know, because a lot of people are like, oh well, you know, I am having a hard time getting in front of like B players and like, there is like you know, C players, B players, A players and like the White House. So how did you end up doing that? Arel Moodie: You know, it is so funny you know, the best way I can describe it is whatever you are doing, you have to be aware that the work you are doing today may not pay off until 3, 4, or 5 years from now you know, people who put in blog post out where they are putting out you know content whether it is videos or audios and they are like I am not getting any traction, is it worth it. If you are passion about it keep doing it. The reason why I was became kind of a perfect storm, we were doing entrepreneurship education since 2007, 2009 is when it really kind of kick off and in 2011, Obama created the Jobs Act and what that was about is creating more jobs and stimulating the economy. It was the big push in the White House, we need to get young people excited about creating jobs and entrepreneurship. So when they started googling and finding out about like who were the players in this young entrepreneurship space. Our business was one of the biggest only players you know at that time there are other people who you know since done it and doing it very well, but we were the people who kind of -- were able to be found because what we were doing we have a lot of content and information and just (inaudible 6:36.1) and get all the work we were doing without there. So we originally got on their radar because of their initiative and they were looking for the right person. Then my business partner at that time, Michael Simmons and I we went in and we met with some folks from Department of State and it was just an introduction like to see what is possible and then by building that relation with Department of State it eventually led up to, we need to get you in touch with you know, this White House initiative which was like, I mean, incredible. Jeremy Reeves: Yeah, that is something -- something to write home to mom about. That is awesome. So kind of going with that, you know, how do you use -- because this is one of those things -- it can either be used for good or bad you know what I mean. So you know, it is -- basically, anything with marketing you know what I mean. But how do you use like the skills that you have to build relationships in a very you know, kind of genuine way versus like, oh, I am going to reach out to this person because I want X you know. Arel Moodie: My mentor told me something which has always stayed with me. He said the only difference between persuasion and manipulation is intent. Jeremy Reeves: Sounds true. Arel Moodie: Like I can use manipulation to get a girl to want to like you know, sleep with me for example or you can use that exact same skills to get the girl to want to fall in love with me because I want her to marry me and have my kids you know, right. Like it is the same process, it really is your intent. So when you are kind of looking at it, it is something I kind of you know, I deal with the last. I am like you know, you have to realize that your heart has to be good because I say likability and relationship building is like a knife you know. A knife is not inherently good or bad, but the knife in the hands of killer is really bad and a scalpel in the hands of the surgeon is really good, but they cut someone open. So I would say that you have to self-regulate yourself. You have to say, you know what is my intentions, but even above that what I found is that no matter how much you are likable or persuasive or whatever it is, if your intent becomes known that you are just trying to get something from someone or (inaudible 8:48.6) transactional you know they say, the sun and the truth will always come up you know. So eventually you will get found out and it will do more harm than good. It may not happen today, it may not happen tomorrow, but you know, you look at people like you know, Bill Cosby you know, incredible human being for so long and then all this dirt he has been doing for his whole life comes out. His whole literally, his entire legacy destroyed because he you know, used his power and his influence for you know, bad reasons. So I would just tell people there really is no difference besides your intent. You have to be the first who regulates what type of human being you try to be in this world. Jeremy Reeves: Yeah, yeah, definitely. I even have a story that I was -- because I have been doing a lot of relationship building this year and the one guy, I met him at San Diego and then I emailed him and I am like, Hey, you know, we should hop on the phone, blah, blah, blah and he originally thought that I was doing it to like, oh you know, what can you get for me you know, like what clients can you refer to me that kind of thing, and I am like no dude, I just want to like hop in the phone and you know, just kind of catch up you know, we live across the country, I just want to you know, have a conversation and we did. And then he ended up inviting me to his yacht party in New York city where I actually met you know, new clients. Arel Moodie: It is so perfect. Jeremy Reeves: It was funny though, like it really hit me because when we were on the phone. He is like, oh, sorry I was a little bit you know, standoff, and he is like, I have so many people that do it just to get something out of me. He is like I love the fact that you did it in a genuine way and just were vulnerable, just you know, kind of free yourself out there. Basically he responded not really in a negative way, but in kind of like a brush off kind of way and I was like, dude, what the hell kind of respond was that? Whereas, I think, if I was going after him in a transactional way you know, I would just be like oh well, you know, whatever like I would not even said that you know, versus -- I said that because of the intent that I have which was basically just to get the friendship going and you know, just to kind of catch with him you know. Arel Moodie: (inaudible 10:54.4) I have a really good friend who is a high-powered executive out of a very, very large you know, organization and you know people are constantly (inaudible 11:01.3) for his time and you know, I was lucky to speak on the same stage with him and we just started talking and we built a pretty good friendship. One time he called me and I was in the middle of kind of having one of those things were people would just reaching out to me for (inaudible 11:12.9) and I was like, I am waiting for like why is he calling me? Does he need something? And then I was like, you know, I messaged him, I said, you know -- I really appreciate you just reaching out to me just to connect with me. He is like man, I know -- he calls it donor fatigue and I thought it was such a great way because people are kind of always to get you to give something to them that the donor becomes fatigue with it. Where someone if they genuinely want to connect with the person, there is no hidden agenda, no ask, the thing that is hilarious about it is exactly what you said, is what will always happen. The clients, the success, it is a byproduct of a genuine intent, but as long as your intent has a hidden agenda, it will be sniffed out you know, people are going to smell smoke and you are going to be gone. So, it is so important when you look at the concept of relationship building to realize this really is a long term strategy and you may build relationship with 10 people and 9 of them nothing happens, but 1 person could be the reason why you go to White House and (inaudible 12:09.8) right? Jeremy Reeves: So what would you say you know, everybody listening to this. We have our own personalities. We have our own kind of ways of communicating with other people, reaching out or kind of like the first time we reached out to them or you know, to existing relationships. Let us get into more of like, some of like the you know, the more of like tactical ways to actually be more likable you know what I mean? And use it in our marketing you know what I mean? And I guess you can kind of take the direction of it, but you know, whether it is for something like writing emails like how do you be more likable, more person personable in something like you know, kind of cold media like that emails or whatever or if it is for creating connections more of like a personal you know one-on-one type of thing. Arel Moodie: Yeah. You know, the funny thing is, a lot of people tend to when they are either getting started and you know whether it is email marketing or whatever it is, building your persona (inaudible 13:10.9) they get so caught up and you know, saying the right thing and doing the right way that they actually run away from what makes them who they are as a genuine intent. And what I tend to find is that when people actually come to (inaudible 13:24.0) with their own particular story that they become really good. Like if you look at people who are doing it well like the (inaudible 13:29.1) their personality is completely infused into their language. They are not writing what they people want to hear. They either crystallizing or they are like polarizing. I heard this straight (inaudible 13:41.6) You know they either say like if you do not like the way I am saying it like that is great, like I am going to polarize you and you are not going to like me or you are going to really resonate me, you are going to crystallize me. So what I would encourage people to do is look at what makes you uniquely you and the way that you find that is simply by saying, why did I want to get into this internet marketing in the first place. Like, what was it for me that was my personal story that made me say, this career, this you know, journey is what I want to take were you are going through divorce, were you going through a bad job you know, is it that you are stump with whatever it is. What was it that made you actually say, this is the thing that I want to do and then use that as your personal story. Infuse that concept and that languaging in what you do. So for me, the way that played out as a specific example is I grew up in the projects in welfare in Brooklyn, New York, right. I mentioned that almost every single time I do speaking engagement, in interview because that is part of my personal story like I want to be known that this where I started from. This is what I came from, but I wanted to make a difference. And for so long I ran away from it because I was kind of ashamed of it. I did not want people to know. I did not want them to like, categorize me, but when I ran towards it, it actually became like, wow, I get to become in theory, the American dream, right. So that is uniquely mine. Like there are other people have a big -- they are not uniquely me. So instead of running away from it and hiding it, I brought it to the forefront and there were a lot of things that made people feel uncomfortable, they are nervous or like, I do not want people to think I am weak, but those are actually the items and things that will make you more real and more connected you know. If you are dealing with depression and you know, started doing internet marketing to like get yourself out of it like talk about that and infuse that in the messaging you send to people. It is actually not going to make you look like a loser or look like someone who does not know what they are talking about is going to make the people who crystallize though. This person is like my girl, my God. And a polarize people they probably not going to work with you anyway so you want to get rid of them. So really going to what makes you you and discover that by asking yourself what made me want to go into this and use that as the way it kind of infuse it in everything you say and everything you do. Jeremy Reeves: Yeah, you know what, I love that and I cannot tell you just from you know, having you know, email subscribers, they go and email, they listened to podcast. My kind of story like, my thing that I watch onto is like the family man you know, that is my persona. So I am always talking about you know, my wife and my kids and you know, on my about me page, like my whole story of like why I get into this and it was because of a promise that I made to my wife you know, she essentially -- you know, I be able to you know, support her like she is always wanted to be you know, stay at home mom when she is. I can actually hear them walking around upstairs right now. But you know, so that is kind of my story and I cannot tell you how many people have emailed me and said like, oh my God, they resonate with me so much, I am in the same way or you know, whatever like that is my dream too if they are not there yet you know. So that is all true you know and just stories are so powerful you know. Arel Moodie: And I love what you are saying because when I teach people how to become professional speakers, I teach them what I called, your X-factor right. So what happened is like, because really, if you look at it, all internet marketing, it is really hard to differentiate yourself on content alone, right. I can get content from a thousand sources, but why I am going to want get my content from you and if I am someone who values family and if I am someone who values you know someone who has ethics and morals and then I come to you and I see you doing all of the internet marketing stuff really well which you are and you are making me realized that I do not have to be scummy sleazy person that (inaudible 17:30.2) value like you know, really important things. I am going to feel more comfortable and connect with you and your information may not be that (inaudible 17:40.4) different than someone else or in maybe, but I would not even know how to get there unless I can first get pass that initial barrier do I look like this guy. And I like you because of your storey and I think the more we grab hold of it, the more it actually becomes what makes people say I want my info. I want -- you want to be a part of this person’s tribe. Jeremy Reeves: Okay. Yeah, you know, there is, you know, an old marketing (inaudible 18:03.30) you know, people buy from other people they know they can trust you know what I mean and they have to you know, the like is the second one in there and trust, which comes from liking it you know what I mean, because usually, you know, you trust people that you like and you do not trust people that you do not like you know what I mean. Think of the, you know, the whole political thing going on. Arel Moodie: We will not go into that. Jeremy Reeves: (inaudible 18:22.2) Arel Moodie: The whole political -- I mean you either hate Trump. You hate Hillary. You do not like them. You love them. You know, it is a very few people kind of straddling the fence with these folks, especially -- Jeremy Reeves: Trump. Arel Moodie: Yeah, I mean especially. I mean, I do not think I have ever seen such political melee. Jeremy Reeves: Yeah, you know. It is pretty rough. Arel Moodie: But I think that genuinely speaking, and to get clear on the idea of likability you know, likability is not being fake, it is not a popularity contest like for you. You are not faking that you have a family. You are not faking that you know. It is not like you are making it up like it genuinely is who you are which you decided to do a simply leverage it as a tool to help people realize like you want to change lives. You want to make people do things for the better. You do all these great research and testing to make sure you have a good content. Now you layer in the family side to it and it kind of puts a moat around you that when you look at someone like you know, a single young guy for example. They just do not have your X-factor. That X-factor is what is going to make people say, I want to keep coming back then the content being good you know is what keeps them you know, stay. Jeremy Reeves: Yeah, definitely, definitely. I love that. So let us you know, think about when you are first reaching out to people you know, because like once you get people you know, what we have been talking about was like people kind of come in to your world and then they find out about you and all that kind of thing, but you know, you have been able to really leverage a lot of different things. So, and I am sure there was a lot of like kind of let us just called it cold outreach you know to that. So how do you use some of the principles that we have been talking about to someone who has never even heard of you before? Arel Moodie: Yep, you know, the biggest thing is kind of -- I do not have official term for it, but I am going to make it up as I say it, I called it kind of the ladder technique if you will. I wish I could say you know, in the beginning of my career, I went here. I was in Huffington post and Forbes and like. It was just (inaudible 20:24.4) like I wish I could say I went from an unknown guy to you know, getting these type of relationship and deals, but what will you do is you use a really good strategy of leveraging up. So here is a great example of how it works. Let us say you live in Los Lunas, New Mexico -- I am making this up right, it is a real place, but it is a small town, right. It is unbelievably easy to get into the local media in Los Lunas, New Mexico. There is going to be local newspapers. There is going to be local t.v. stations, right. So it can be like you know, let us say someone is teaching people about -- give me a random subject that (inaudible 21:04.0) maybe somebody in your tribe is like teaching people how to do. Jeremy Reeves: Automated webinars. I have a product coming up for next week. Arel Moodie: Alright. You contact the extremely hyper local news station magazine, t.v. station in your local area, right. You know, webinars are the key to the marketing future. I love to write an article, but the interview about on why webinars are the key to business in success in 2016 and beyond, right. Like when people only realize about media is they need your content before media and this is really big right. Before media was like a printed newspaper. It was a limited amount of real statement and that was it, right. Now, it is online where the more media you have, the better. So Forbes is posting maybe 60,000 article a day on their online site, right. So they are constantly needing new info. These local places are (inaudible 22:03.4) maybe it starts as a blog, maybe it starts as whatever, right. So we talked to these local folks, you let them know about the benefit of how you can help their readers right. We talked about like let me tell you about my launch, right, it is not bad. How to use webinars to grow your business. You get featured in that local media, right. Then what you do is you leverage that local media into the next immediate spot. So now I am in the local Los Lunas business journal. So I contact ABC 7 and say, Hey, I just did an article with Los Lunas business journal on why webinar is the marketing of the future. I love to come on to your show and talk about this in person. So it is a different medium, but I am using the original thing I got as my kind of ladder up to next one. And then when I started doing is using you know, good branding. So for example, I was featured on small town in Benton, New York. That is where I went to college and we were featured on the Fox News at Benton, New York, right. So instead of saying I was on whatever it is WWCCCBJ of Benton, New York. I was like, I was featured on the Fox News because it is true, it is an affiliate. So now I am leveraging a bigger brand that is connected with that affiliate and I am using that branding to leverage in to the next one and into the next one. So the key is to actually not start so so high, but to start with a very hyper local and even if you are in like New York city for example our major player your county or your neighborhood probably has some type of media outlet that covers just the area then you reach out there first and you leverage up from there and then eventually you are going to get yourself an opportunities that like blow your mind and then you can kind of almost start mentioning those smaller local ones and (inaudible 23:43.5) bigger ones and then once you get into a bigger one, it is a lot easy to get into you know, other big names. Jeremy Reeves: Yeah, I love that. And it is actually -- it is actually funny because you can use that you know, what do you called it, the ladder? Arel Moodie: Ladder. We just call it that, that could be something else right whatever. Jeremy Reeves: Yeah, whatever. The ladder strategy. You can use that in so many different ways so like if you have a funnel that is converting really well and you are looking for affiliates you do the same thing you know, go out with people that are kind of C players. Get a couple of them to promote. Then you go to B players and say, hey, you know, these players, you know, these people already promoted, they are getting whatever you know EPC you know, that kind of thing and then you get a couple successes with the B players and you go to A player you know. Arel Moodie: Right, and what is cool too is that if you really look at angles right, so for example, Instagram shout-outs, I find that for social media to be a great way to get followers for example you know, I am doing fitness and I say, Hey, I love fitness check out my awesome friends who has got fitness, right. So let us say you only got like 100 followers right, and someone else has you know, 200 followers and you say, hey I want to shout you out and you get them you know, 15 new followers right. I cannot do math, right, but you can say we increased their followers by 20% or 15%. Now mind you, you are only going from like easier numbers, 100 to 120, but to say you increased their followers by 20% is completely true. So when you reached out to a bigger player and you say, hey, I have been able to use this (inaudible 25:09.7) by 20%. Jeremy Reeves: I see where you are going. Arel Moodie: Then (inaudible 25:12.4) oh my God, this is pretty cool. Let me give it a shot. Then he get that bigger player and he say, we got this bigger play that -- and then it just you just ladder up. Jeremy Reeves: Yeah and then in the meantime you are getting them to shout-out to you, so then you are increasing your followers so then you know, to kind of just keeps going at it. Alright, cool. So that helps. I mean I think we covered both you know, both kind of cold and you know warm. How do you use this for things like social media you know. So like we are kind of -- I mean you know, social medial is kind of part of your funnel depending on how you are using, but you know, but have you used it to you know, to kind of grow that aspect of your business Arel Moodie: Yeah, you know, I am very similar into what you are saying. My family is very important to me (inaudible 25:58.8) my baby cry a couple of months ago. I have a beautiful wife that stays at home as well which you know, we are very honored and lucky to be able to do. I have 2 sons. They are very big part of my life. So when I am hosting, I am posting about my family on social media as much as I am talking about the business things that I am doing and a lot of times you know, it is like if you post too much you know, buy from me, buy from me, buy from me, buy from me you become a spammer and people do not want to talk to you. If you never say buy for me, the people forget that you are even selling anything, right, but if you have this great combination of let me let you win and not let me just let you win on I am on a yacht in (inaudible 26:37.9) welcome to my personal life, right. A lot of people do just that but you know, posting about -- let me say this really funny thing about my son, crying at the mall in front of everyone and then here is the marketing lesson that I learned from it then you know, it is not important what other people think, it is important what is the greatest goal is. Like for me, if my kids are having a temper tantrum, I am not going to give him a lollipop just so that people stop looking at me and take him away, you know, a lot of (inaudible 27:03.8). Jeremy Reeves: A lot of people of would. Arel Moodie: A lot of people of would. I do not want to look bad. Give him a lollipop, and I am like, No, like I do not want you to think that if you cry you get your way and I do not want you to think if I say, you have 1 lollipop you are going to get 2. It gets a larger lesson. So you can talk about this like, here is my son crying and all these people looking at me, but here is a larger lesson. So as long as you start sharing more about your personal line but then kind of doing a looping back into how it furthers your business, you connect to people to who you are as a person which makes them keep believing you, trusting you knowing your life can give, but then it also furthers your business goals. So I highly encouraged people to look at their life and say, hey, are you really into archery. Are you really into knitting you know, whatever is the thing that you are into and bring that into your actual messaging so it is not just you know, black and white you know, AB test and (inaudible 27:55.7) because the stories are what we care about like if you read a textbook, you are going to fall asleep, but if you read a you know, John Grisham novel, you are alive throughout the whole thing. So the key is to build those stories of your personal life into it and what is cool is you start actually looking around. Actually, when bad things happening to me in my personal life, I am like awesome, this is going to be a great story. Nothing really is as bad as it once was because it all has a leverage. Jeremy Reeves: Yeah, yeah, that is awesome. So one final question is a lot of people are probably listening to this and you know, it is hard I do not know if you have ever tried to write a sales letter, selling your own thing, right. It is harder or done really trying to sell yourself like it is harder trying to sell yourself than somebody else. So a lot of people listening to this are probably thinking, oh there is nothing special about me, right. Everybody thinks there is nothing special about them and then you talk to them and they are like, what is wrong. You are like an amazing person you know. But like we all have this kind of like cloud that keeps us from seeing how amazing we really are, right. So how do you help people or what are some tips you can give people to like find you know their X-factor? We just call it. Arel Moodie: I was talking to one of my coaching clients yesterday literally about this exact same thing. He is a guy who want to be a speaker and I was like you know, why do you want to be -- you know because -- I gave him every title thing to do and he still was not doing it and I am like, dude I am giving you the freakin -- do it, right. But it was a mental block because he was like, well, I do not really see how I stand out. So I finally started asking him about himself and he told me about you know, how he (inaudible 29:38.4) going through the suicidal things and his girl left him and now he has wife and he is so happy and I was like, do you share this story and (inaudible 29:45.3) like no, I do not share it. And I am like, what are you thinking, right. So the very the first thing I would say is you know, this is why mentorship and coaching is really so important. It is not necessarily because me as a coach, the only (inaudible 30:01.3) work with me is because I know things you do not know. That could be part of it but the other part is we are sometimes so close to the trees we cannot see the forest. We need to talk and not just talk to like your best friend or your wife or your husband who do not know this world, but someone who is in the world who can go, oh my God, this is important. So I am a big fan of coaching. I do coaching. I go to coaching, it is very important. The second thing to consider is -- I heard this from, (inaudible 30:27.6) those are really good, right. He said, imagine you are your own client. So step out of your body and imagine -- it is not I am writing about me, right. It is I am writing about Arel Moodie client. What has Arel Moodie my (inaudible 30:43.9) so you are almost 3rd person yourself. So instead of looking at it, what have I done, you would say, alright, I have been hired by Jeremy Reeves and I have to do this. What am I going to write about for Jeremy Reeves and you look at them almost as a separate person that you have to write for and you become a little bit more objective about it. So one, get outside perspectives from people who know what they are doing who can literally cut through a lot of your (inaudible 31:06.4) because so many people like you said, are so incredible and they are like, oh I have not really done anything and then it is like what world are you living in you know. And then the second thing is the kind of almost like transcendentally step out of your body and hire yourself to write the copy for you and you will actually find it is a little bit more objective as long as you stay away from, I am talking myself it is weird, no, I have been hired by Arel Moodie and I have to make sure Arel Moodie is the happiest client I have ever had. How do I blow up what he has done and it is really helpful to do those few things. Jeremy Reeves: Nice, yeah, I love that. And I very much agree with the whole coaching thing. I have talked to people like my own coaching clients and they are like, oh I cannot figure this out. I cannot figure them, I am like do this you know, and then it is like, okay, done. And the same thing with me you know, I hire coaches myself and I have had, I have had instances where I am sitting and looking at a problem, I am like, Oh my God, I cannot figure this out, and then you know, I say, hey you know, come look at this and they were like, well just do that, it is like, how did you not see that you know. It happened so -- I mean almost every single project that I have with clients has you know, that in there at some point where it is (inaudible 32:19.6) why don’t you just do this you know, it is like so simple and obvious but -- Arel Moodie: And that is worth everything honestly because -- I mean I had situations where I like to crack my brain about you know, well how do I break into this market or how do I do this and I have one mentor who has been my mentor for 10 years now and literally 30 minutes with him shed so much like so for example, I have (inaudible 32:45.7) who teach people how to become professional speakers, how to get paid to do it right and I love it and I am having this conversation with him and my mentor goes, well, have you ever thought about teaching people also how to speak? And I am like, well, I mean yeah, but not -- it feels like, there are so many people that want to learn how to speak and it was such a simple idea, but I was so caught up and just teaching people the business out of it that I never thought about also teaching them kind of the art -- the how to be a great speaker. And so now, I am working on that product as well, but literally it was just one question and I just never -- it just was not on the radar you know. Jeremy Reeves: There is -- have you ever read a book, Obvious Adams? Arel Moodie: No. Jeremy Reeves: You never read that? I would highly recommend even giving it to your coach and clients and I know everybody listening to this, there is a really good book, it is like 30 pages. It is just tiny little thing but yeah, look for I forgot where (inaudible 33:37.1) it was a dollar somewhere, but yeah, look for it, it is called Obvious Adams and it is about that, it is about like you walk around and like think of all inventions basically. I just saw one the other day and it was for a tape measure and you know, a lot of times especially if you are doing like a bigger project, you have the tape measure and you have like 14 other tools here and it is like, you are like, you know, going like this and like -- it is hard to get the measurement and all that. So they made it so that all you do is get a laser pointer and go like this and it tells you how you know, the distance and I am like, oh my God, that is so easy like how did no one ever think of that, but honestly, I mean most inventions are like, oh my God, how you know, there is one for umbrella you know, the way that it -- I forgot the way that it close so like, because you know like the water sits on top and then when you close it the water comes flying down and it did like the other way you know what I mean, like it just close (inaudible 34:33.7) I am like, oh God, you know, but yeah, those are kinds of the -- but nobody sees it you know, and that is an entire world not seeing it. Arel Moodie: You know what, I will say this because I think it is so important to see -- this has showed up in my life over and over and over again I do not know if this has showed up in your life too, but a lot of the things that actually change your business are not these huge really complex things, it is these little simple ideas. You know in my professional speaking where I will never forget this. I mean it is so simple, it is stupid, right. Like in the very beginning of my career, I was charging like $500 for speaking engagement right, like really low right. And I was speaking to someone who said well, what does the market typically charge? And I was like, what do you mean? Like so for example, I want to buy a brand new Toyota Camry. There is a concept of what a brand new Toyota Camry cost, right. I never thought about it, I was just like why do I feel comfortable charging people. And then at that time, the market I was speaking was like, Oh, they are used to paying $2,500. So he was like, alright start charging $2,500 and I was like that is ridiculous. No, if that is what people want to pay, that is what you should do. And so literally, I started the next conversation $2,500 and so I am like 5 times my speaking engagement and now you know we are doing $10,000, $20,000, $30,000 presentations but when I was doing $500 I could not have imagine like anything more than that because I was looking it from my own perspective, but the simplest thing of just charge of what people are used to paying for it, 5 times the business and then you know, whatever 100 thousand times of business now. But it is so simple thing, I was not necessarily speaking any differently, I was not doing anything differently. I just made that one little tweak and has had a huge changes. So a lot of times when we are looking at our business we are always trying to overcomplicate it. We are trying to make it so much more difficult than it is, but sometimes these little simple changes could mean the greatest return on our business and our investments. Jeremy Reeves: Yeah, yeah, that is, you know, even when you are you know, when I am split testing copy you know, it is always like the biggest leverage that you have is the big idea, the headline you know, like in the lead you know, the first page or two of copy you know and you can quadruple a sales letter with 1 new page of copy out of 20 you know what I mean and it really is are just the big you know, the big idea like there is one -- the big idea, it was a financial newsletter and you know, the whole like idea of it was the end of America. So it was about you know, America losing its currency reserve status or like the you know, it is the world currency or whatever and that was like the big idea and then they have all the facts and all that to support it and you know, that kind of thing, but that is you know, that is all it is just about you know, an idea you know, and you could be sitting there for a year and nothing comes and then just comes and it is over with you know, game over you won. Arel Moodie: Yeah, yeah. So you know, I really encouraged everyone listening to this you know, with your business, a lot of times (inaudible 37:28.7) or overcomplicating it. You think it’s this -- I think people think like to be a successful entrepreneur or internet marketer you got to be in this lab and there was like doodles all over the wall and there was like a beaker with like green liquid going over you with a smoke come in and that is only way in your split testing like should I use the letter A or the letter B and then in real life a lot of people -- I remember I got to speak at super conference which Dan Kennedy and Bill Glazer did and they were very big in this world and what was hilarious was I remember Dan Kennedy said this, I thought it was so brilliant. He was like a lot of the copy that (inaudible 38:05.9) the way he was doing copywriting for clients. He was like, a lot of the copy that I write for clients, I could literally give to them in a hour, right. I could write in an hour. He was like -- but I would make them wait like for 4 weeks for it, because in the client’s head it is like, they imagine him like going over each line and deleting it and re-editing it and like mailing it to himself and opening the mail and going, that was not impactful enough and he was like, if I gave it to him in an hour they would not value it. So I made them wait 4 weeks so that they can appreciate it and I was like you know, it was not just about the copywriting, it was just such a like the mental thing that we think it is this like really complex difficult process (inaudible 38:46.6) we can really just streamline it and get down to little things like you know, like you said, the title right, like my squeeze page, like this is little simple things that can make all the difference and then when you find it, it just kind of keep going after it really, really hard. Jeremy Reeves: Yeah, yeah, definitely. I totally agree. Hey, I had a blast on this conversation. It was definitely like it is you know, we usually talked about just like, oh, this marketing strategy, this marketing tactic you know that kind of thing. So it was a good -- it was a good like kind of you know, forelay out of that and into more of like a softer type of approach you know, but the funny thing is if you really nail your story I mean, I talked about you know, stories and you know, kind of you know, basically a lot of stuff you were talking about with like ability doing that in copy and if you really nail that, that can change the whole you know, the whole game. I cannot tell you how many letters I have written in you know, the beginning of the copy was a story you know what I mean. I am actually writing one right now. You know, the beginning it is like you know, it all started in 2008, that is the first line you know, dot, dot, dot and then it kind of goes into it you know. So you know, I love it you know, I think it is extremely valuable. So my last kind of question is, is there anything that I missed you know, any topic or anything you want to cover that we did not get to cover over the last (inaudible 40:10.3) how long it has been 40 minutes or so. Arel Moodie: You know, I think this was pretty, I mean, there is obviously tons of stuff you know, I would highly encouraged people you know, I think right now, at the recording on this episode, we have over 100 episodes of The Art of Likability you know, we put our episode every week. I mean literally, it is something that I do not think I could ever cover you know, in my lifetime. So there are tons of stuff, but the key thing is to realize that no matter what you are doing, who you are right now, you do have a story to tell and you do have a part to share to the world and if you know, someone I admire is that you know, do not be a diet version of anyone else. Be an original you, you know. Like do not listen to this and become I would become a diet Jeremy Reeves, right. Do not be a diet version and like, use this information and model it to be an originally you and that is always going to work better in everything you do. Jeremy Reeves: Yeah, it makes you happier too you know, it is probably within the last like 2 years or so that I really started just being myself and you know, I have lost friends you know because of it and it is just like look it is just that we do not you know, we are just not really compatible anymore you know, and it was like before I was kind of just -- there is one guy I am taking up right now -- but it was just you know, we did not, it is not like that I do not like them you know, it is just look, you know, we are in the different things, were you know have different views on things you know, it is just kind of you were like, it is those things were you kind of just like in it like just because that is what you have been doing all -- you know what I mean and you know, then one day came, I do not know, it was 1-1/2 years ago something like that and I am like just, I do not really want to hang out with him you know, and we broke up. But I mean, it is so freeing when you really get to know who you are and I just -- core level and you can just live your life as you, you know, versus like you know, who Facebook wants you to be or you know, the people on Facebook or who Instagram -- your Instagram followers expect you to be or you know, even you know your wife expects you to be you know, just you you know, I mean wife, she should know like the truth you know, but maybe that was not a good example but -- Arel Moodie: I called it senior citizen confidence you know, if you look at really old people, they do not care. Yeah, I mean they walk around looking crazy, they will have shoeboxes for sneakers and they literally could not care what you have to say about that and it is like this is how I felt -- like I am like how did you get out the house dress like that or look like that, but I am like that person has what I want right. They have got the utmost confidence and unfortunately, most people do not get there until they are senior citizen, and I would encourage everyone to have senior confidence right now regardless of how old you are. Jeremy Reeves: I can give you an example of that actually. I actually -- I forgot if it was the last time or the one before, but I was going fishing right and I had this you know, I had all my get up on and I looked like the biggest dork in the world you know, and I purposely put a picture of myself on Facebook and then I would like to say like, look I looked like such an idiot you know, for that specific purpose of what you know, who cares you know, like most people they are all laughing like it is not -- they are not laughing at you and even they are, who cares you know. You should not be friends with them if they are, you know what I mean. So I would highly recommend -- I do not have a word for it but like purposeful you know, embarrassment or humility you know or whatever you know, shaming yourself on purpose to gain that confidence and realize well, okay, I did that you know, I fell in front of the whole bunch of people, who cares, everybody falls you know what I mean. You know, I lost a project you know, I am having a hard time with my finances. I got you know, I got overweight and you know, I look bad -- you know, everybody has been there you know, most of us. The actual reality is you know, way, way, way less in reality than it is in your head you know what I mean. Arel Moodie: I will give everyone listening a bonus and this is -- I mean this is -- if you really get what I am about to share with you, I promise you everything transform in your life from this point forward, but everything you do. The only thing that has power over your are the things you are ashamed of. If you are overweight, but you are not ashamed of being overweight, no one can make fun of you for being overweight you know. If you are dorky and you like Pokemon Go or you like (inaudible 44:41.5) like with all of your heart and soul, if you do not feel ashamed of it, no one can make fun of you for it. When someone makes fun of you and it hurts you, the only reason why it really hurts is because they are ashamed that you have been connected to that and if you can get to the point like you said where -- again, most people do not get this until the end of their life and I read this really great article about hospice workers and you know, what they would hear from people who on their deathbed what they wish they would have done and over and over and over again they would hear that I wish I just would not have been myself instead of what people wanted me to be. And the only thing that will keep you from being who you really want to be is if you hold on to this concept of shame and the craziest thing about shame it only lives in your head. It only lives here like the stuff -- I used to be so shameful that I had a white mom and a black dad, right. I used to be so shameful that I was Jewish. I used to be so shameful that I was from the projects and once I let go of that, and then -- I would share with people and people like no one thinks that is a big deal. Really? Because I have been walking around thinking I was loser for so long, (inaudible 45:42.6) ridiculous things and what we find is most people are so caught up in their own world like I may care about like (inaudible 45:51.3) headline about this celebrity who is going to like a divorce or problem whatever and (inaudible 45:56.3) oh my goodness look what is happening with -- you know, so and so. And then I go on back to my life. I am not sitting here spending my whole day worrying about what Selena Gomez is doing and if you are and you are not a (inaudible 46:08.1) you know column writer, your life is really -- Jeremy Reeves: Yeah you got to fix something else. Arel Moodie: It takes a lot if you are like -- most people, they get their head and then they move on and when you get that it freeze you because the stuff that -- you can make huge mistakes as long as they are not like you know, breaking major laws or hurting people - - you can make big mistakes in your business and you know, how you interact with people and nobody cares. I mean if you look at -- I think the greatest example it is, is Robert Downey Jr. You know, years ago, he was untouchable, he was going through his drug problems and there is like hookers and then he became like one of the highest paid actors and like nobody cares. So it is all in our head and it is just the shame that we have and when we let go of the shame, we have full confidence and power. Jeremy Reeves: Yeah. Walk through a city and dance around like a monkey and then go home and see if you get online. I guarantee you won’t and I guarantee you, you know, a couple of those people that saw you are going to say, oh my God, I saw this dude dancing around like a monkey on the street and they will have laughs and nobody will ever remember you. And that is an extreme example you know. Arel Moodie: But it is so true, it is so true. Jeremy Reeves: It is, it is awesome. Well hey, man, I had a blast. I will -- everybody, actually before we jumped off, you know, where can everybody get in touch with you, you know, the number one thing is definitely everybody go and download The Art of Likability. Subscribe to that in you know, in iTunes or Stitcher you know, whatever you listen to, but you know -- Arel Moodie: Yeah, so the cool thing about my name, so my name is Arel Moodie and you probably see it in like the show notes and (inaudible 47:34.8) I am literally the only Arel Moodie in the entire world, right. There is no one else in the world with my name. So if you put my name in the Google, you could find all the articles that I have written in. If you put me in Facebook or LinkedIn, you can get connected with me on social media, but yeah, the biggest thing I would tell people is you know, get the podcast, we put out episodes every single week. (inaudible 47:54.1) we have a really cool reports so if you text the word awesomesauce it is 1 word, awesomesauce to the number 44-222 so the number (inaudible 48:02.8) we probably use internet marketing, I do not have to explain it to all the people here, you know, so text awesomesauce at 44-222 and we will send you a free guide on how to dramatically increase your likability in every situation that you are in. So if you are networking, if you are going to event, if you are at work it works you know, very well. So I encourage people to do that, pull out your phone right now do it, do not just listen to my words, do it. Text the word awesomesauce to 44-222 and we will send you that and literally I love helping, I love giving, this is why we do at all. So if I can be of service of anyway go to artoflikability.com. Leave a comment on the website. Hit me on social media. I will be happy to (inaudible 48:38.3). Jeremy Reeves: Sounds good. Yeah and all that stuff will be in the show notes. So if you already forgot, what was it? Awesomesauce, 44-222, man I forgot already. That is pretty bad, but yeah, hey man, it was a pleasure having you on and good luck with everything you do. Arel Moodie: Hey man, I appreciate in what you doing and keep doing as great.

Today we discuss why EVERYONE needs high ticket products & services in their sales funnel, and THE most effective way to sell them for the highest ROI possible. Plus TWO big announcements!   Resources Mentioned support@jeremyreeves.com Transcript: Jeremy Reeves: Hey, what is going on everybody. I just recorded a new episode and I completely forgot to tell you that my wife, Katie, is pregnant with number 3. So we have Connor, he is 5. We have Logan, he is 3 and now we are going to have a new born coming in February. So she is whatever, 13 weeks now, so we are very, very excited. We actually just went last week I think it was for her first you know, high-risk OB appointment you know. She is high-risk because she has epilepsy and then our oldest son, Connor, has autism so they basically they monitor her like crazy. We actually go I think it is like once a month now and then it is after when she hits past like 20 weeks we are going to -- we go for like every week and then after 30 weeks, it is like every week. So we are going to have a lot of doctor appointments coming up. But I just wanted to tell everybody that you know, that you know, she is pregnant with number 3. We were trying basically you know, all last year I think, whatever the time, this year, not last year. I am very, very proud of the fact that all 3 of our kids were planned and we you know, we are in the process of trying for all 3 of them you know what I mean, I love that fact, you know, we have always wanted kids and we kind of you know, made a plan for them and actually stuck to the plan which is kind of awesome you know, I think it is kind of rare because life gets in the way and either you do not have as many as you wanted or you accidentally have more than you wanted you know, which is, I think is more the case but you know, I am very happy and excited about the fact that you know, we not only you know, wanted 3 and kind of planned it out, but we are actually like in the process of trying when she get pregnant with all 3. So it is kind of awesome, but anyway, enjoy this episode. I have actually another big announcement on this episode so enjoy it. Hey what is going on everybody, Jeremy Reeves here with another episode of the sales funnel mastery podcast and I was just thinking about something, okay. So I have been talking with a lot of prospects and clients lately and we just got some really, really good result with one of our clients who basically -- he was selling a product essentially between $2,000 and $3,000, okay. There are 2 different choices, the one was, I think it was like $1997 and the other one is $2094 something like that. So he, you know, he was thinking of the best way to sell it that kind of thing and I said, well, I think we should do you know, we should set up an automated webinar to sell it, right. So in his case it was actually hi-breed because he you know, it is in the trading industry so you know, people want to see live charts, right, rather than you know, if you are looking at prices of stock and it is like from 3 years ago you know, obviously it is going to be very irrelevant. So to make it relevant you know, we decided that a hi-breed approach is the best thing where we, you know, we have you know, 80% of the webinar automated and then he kind of just pops in to show a couple of charts and you know, and that is it. So we launched and here you have one you know, that he was already doing and you know, and all that. So I redid you know, his webinar and that is going to bring me to my next point but so we redid it right, and what happened was the first time, now this is with no -- this is you know right out of the gate to -- I think it was a mix of paid you know kind of warm traffic. The first time right out of the gate he sells -- It was somehow, I still to get the final numbers, but it was roughly $30,000 from 1 webinar right, it took him -- he was on there for like whatever half hour or something like that. $30,000 okay and that was from by the way, it was not like you know, thousand (inaudible 4:37.9) registered, it was something like 400 people who have registered I think something along those lines and 150 showed up, so whatever it is I am going to do the math here and get up my trustee old calculator here so $30,000 divided by $150 is $200 per person who attended the you know, the webinar and it would also be $75 per you know per registrant right. So that means he could he spend 30 -- basically, if you wanted to just get a double ROI you know, 100% ROI. You could basically spend about $37 per lead to get a 2 times ROI, right. So now the average person is getting leads for roughly you know, let us just say $2 to $3 something like that, it is going to depend on the industry, but if he is making $75 per registrant right, that means that he can -- if you want to get a 10 times ROI, say he was getting $250 a lead right, let us say $250 a lead right, probably would not get that right off the bat because of the (inaudible 5:59.0) with you know, (inaudible 6:00.3) but if he was getting $250 a lead which you know, is reasonable once you kind of get down to it. That would give him a 30 times ROI, okay. So even if he did a third of what he actually did and made only $10,000 that means he would still be getting a 10 times ROI on you know, his paid traffic right. And you know, there are 2 kind of things that I want to talk about it here. Number 1 is that if you are selling anything high ticket, you have to be selling on webinars. Webinars are so bad ass that it is ridiculous and they have been, for years, and they will continue being because as -- unless somebody comes out with some kind of a crazy new technology which it still would be a webinar, just a different type of technology, maybe there is more interaction or something like that or you can have -- I know like people are coming out with like a 3D video where there is a like hologram or you kind of like in the room you know, so I could see people in the future doing kind of live presentations and you can actually walk around rooms and like all kinds of crazy stuff you know, we are not there now, but that is going to be coming in the future, but essentially, like if you are selling anything high ticket, you need to be doing some type of presentation, right. We are just going to call it presentation for now. A high ticket, you know, is essentially like anything like maybe $500 plus right, you know, that is when you should really start selling webinars even lower than that you know, even if it is like I mean kind of a typical recommendation is anything $197 or less you could probably sell via text, anything above that I think is you know, webinar, something along those lines you know, it really depends and you could test out if you do not think it will work best, but let us just say anything you know, $200 to $500 plus is kind of considered high end, right. Definitely need to be doing webinars to sell that because anything less is just -- you are not going to sell it because you know, you have to just you know, you have to get into the core emotions of your audience and the best way to do that is with webinar. So if you are sitting there and you are struggling through sales and you know, anything like that, and you are selling anything that is you know, just say $200 plus or $500 plus, you are kind of in that range right. Definitely consider putting together a webinar or presentation right. This also includes if your lifetime value, so like if people are spending you know, just say $50 a month, but there are staying with you for a year okay, well that is a $600 value, right. They are still going to need that kind of push you know in that direction with a webinar, okay. So now that we have that covered, right. So if you are selling anything you know, just say $200 to $500 plus, that would be considered kind of webinar territory. Now if you are local, if you are brick-and-mortar business, what you would probably do is you are essentially doing a webinar in person you know, an old school you know, traditional workshop right, were you are bringing people into your place of business and you are putting on a workshop and you sell them at the end, right. Same exact concept. People have been doing it forever, right. And I apologized if you could hear my dog barking outside, I do not know what she is barking at. But you know, again, if you can get people into your you know, into an actual live presentation, you can close up the 30% of the room doing it that way. I have clients doing that. So for example, financial adviser or you are like a chiropractor or a dentist or something like that definitely consider you know, doing facebook ads, google ads, getting people to a workshop in your actual business or you can rent out a space if you want and selling them in person, right, the best way you can possibly sell it. And then you know, of course, if you are online, then you do the online workshop, online webinar, you know, whatever kind of terminology you want to use, okay. So that is kind of who should be doing this, right. So if you are in that crowd. If you are not in that crowd and usually do not care then you could you know, you do not even have to listen to the rest of this episode unless you wanted (inaudible 10:15.4) learn how to sell better which probably (inaudible 10:18.1). If you are in that crowd okay, there is a really important point that I want to make here okay, and I am actually in the process right now of building a course. I have not launch a new information course in like 3 years and it just recently hit me how much of a skill we have for you know for launching webinars okay. So we are coming out with a course showing you how to do that and I am actually, it is actually kind of cool because I am going to break it up. There is going to be like kind of a core philosophy in how everything works, but then I am also going to give you, you know, the templates and you know, training videos for each you know if you are selling a product or service because it is you know, you are going to sell it differently depending you know, the scripts can be different, depending on the product and service. So I am actually creating a course right now probably going to launch it in September or so, I mean it is going to be bad ass you know, the whole you know, I am going to explain the exact you know, kind of how to set it up what you should use, but actually give you script for every single thing in it right. So it is going to be bad ass. So shoot me if you want any more information on that just shoot me an email. If you have any kind of feedback on that, that you want to give because I am outlining the products right now. Actually, just recorded 1 piece of it this morning. So anyway, essentially you know, one of the things you know, when you are talking about funnels, when you are talking about whatever kind of funnel it is, a lot of people get hung up on what is the structure look like you know, where do we put the opt ins, where do we put the upsells. Listen to me, that is not important right. That is -- you know, you need that right, but what is important is the messaging, okay. So many people I cannot imagine -- I cannot even begin to explain how many people are like, Oh well, you know, they come to me and they are like, oh well, you know, it is saying I am pitching them -- doing a webinar for them, they are like, oh well, I mean I know how to set up a webinar. So I am just going to do it myself, right and it is like, sure anybody can set up a webinar. I mean it is not that complicated, but do you know how to exactly sell you know, in the webinar I mean that is where the difference is that is like saying, oh well, I can write a sales page, but okay, can you do it properly right. Do you actually really know how to dig into the core emotions and you know, dig in to the you know, all the persuasion elements that you need to actually sell whatever it is that you are selling and for most people, the answer is no, right. Just because you can do it, does not mean that you can do it correctly, right. And that is the big, the big crocs here. So you know, when you are doing a webinar whether you are doing it yourself or you hire somebody to do it, whatever the case is, you have to focus you know, you have to start with really nailing down your core message you know, what is the webinar going to be about, okay. What is sexy in your market. You are also going to have to look at you know, how does that -- how does that topic translate in actually making sales because you can come up with any kind of sexy topic you know, but is that going to actually -- is that going to be congruent with what you are selling, okay. That is what a lot of people miss, alright. This is the kind of the stuff that I am going to cover in this course that we are going out with. The second thing is you know, once when you actually get (inaudible 13:51.4) because you have to have something that is sexy enough to get people to the webinar right and then you have to have a structure, a framework for that webinar that not only keeps them engage in the webinar, but sells them you know, again, it takes them kind of down to slippery slope just like a sales letter, okay, it is very, very similar. You have to get people -- it is kind of like you know, the topic of the webinar is the same thing as the headline of sales letter. It is meant not to sell them but to get them into it right, to get them to start reading or in this case start listening. And then the way that you know, the framework that you have for your webinar, the way that you -- the selling structure that you have throughout the whole webinar is meant to actually sell them right on whatever it is that you are selling whether it is product or service and that is what you really need to focus on is you know, what is the big idea behind this. What is the big concept that when you introduce this, this concept to you know, your audience they are going to think holy shit I need this product now. This thing is going to like completely transform my life you know, if you are selling like in this case you know, within the webinar, if you are selling anything high ticket you know, I am going to be targeting people right who are selling anything probably like I am going to probably say you know, $500 plus, right. So if you know, if the course is like a $1,000 or something, it is like listen you only need to make 2 sales of this and it is already paid for itself. You will do that at the first webinar that you have on. So you are -- you know, I am going to, kind of focus on doing it fast because I am giving you all the templates all the frameworks everything for this you know, we will even have services set it up for you, you know, all that kind of stuff. I will have those like in my upsells and all that kind of you know, good stuff right. And it is like look, you know, you are going to pay for this literally within 1 week of getting it because we are going to show you how to set up this webinar within a week okay and I mean it is just going to be you know, you just launch it to your list right, whatever you have and you are probably going to make at least 2 sales from that right, it kind of bad if you did not, and even if you do not have the big list right you are probably going to make at least 1 or 2 sales and then you -- the whole goal there is going to be to sell it you know, via paid traffic. So you know, it would be like another 6 figure you know, automated revenue (inaudible 16:16.9) for you. At least 6 figures. So if you are going to do that, you have to have all these pieces in place. You have to have the big main idea of getting this in place. You have to really narrow down exactly who you are selling it too and then you have to have the messaging correct. You have to have all these pieces in place that keep people engaged throughout the webinar because if they do not get to the end where you are actually pitching right you are not going to make any sales right. If people are dropping off, you are not going to make any sales. So you have to, not only get them in engaged, get them interested in the webinar, you have to get them onto the webinar and then you have to get them to stay throughout the webinar and then you have to get them to buy whatever you are selling at the end of the webinar, okay. So you have to have -- and there is framework and structures and you know templates and systems you could put in place for all of these to improve each individual aspect of it right. And that is what you need to do like if you want a successful webinar I mean we have I just realized how many of our clients our doing webinars I do not know why I never realized this before, but it kind of just hit me recently and you know, it is one of those things you know, we have kind of systems and templates that we used when we build this webinars for our clients right, and that is why we get such good results with them is because we have processes and frameworks that we used you know so that whenever we make these webinars we are not starting from scratch. We are starting from a proven formula that works regardless of what it is that you are selling you know, because I help my clients come up with you know the idea and all that kind of stuff but (inaudible 17:55.6) script it all the whole thing out for them. So we know what sells and what does not you know that kind of thing. So there (inaudible 18:03.8) less guess work you know what I mean you know, that is like if you have a high ticket, anything high ticket whether it is product or service right. Even if you are selling service going to free consultation you should still do with the webinar in most cases right. Why do you think I have so many webinars, it is because they worked you know, it is because when people watch them, a very high percent of people get in touch with me you know, that is why we have webinars, that is why I am always coming out with new webinars because they worked, right, and I am always testing new ideas. The cool thing is, with webinar, you can record an introduction and you can record a close and then when you want a test to a new concept, all you have to do is change the body of the content right. Maybe like the first slide where you are talking about like what you are going to talk about on the webinar. Oh my God, there are so many different amazing ways of these webinars, they are by far, one of my favorite things to build for clients because it is just you know, when I get somebody that is coming and they say, I want to build a webinar it is like I know the results are going to be there right. As long as they have a good message, they have like, you come up with a no brainer offer you know, that kind of thing it is just bad ass how good the results are you know. So the main point here is if you are trying to sell something high ticket, first of all, if you do not have anything high ticket come out with something high ticket, right, $500 plus. And again, you can do this for like $200 plus right, in a lot of cases, it will work really well right, but let us just say high ticket is like $500 plus for now just for kind of easy you know, simplicity here. When you are doing this you know, the choice is kind of okay do I put it together myself or do I get a professionally done right, and if you are putting it together yourself you know, you have to follow kind of what I just talked about you know, a lot of people are like, oh well, you know, we are going to do this, we are going to do a prewebinar sequence, we are going to do a postwebinar sequence and you know, we are going to send them reminders and blah, blah, blah, blah, and it is like, yeah, but if you do not do that the right way, it is not going to do anything okay. I can sell more on a webinar with no prewebinar sequences, no postwebinar sequences, they just show up to the webinar you know, whoever (inaudible 20:31.6) just kind of it drops off and I guarantee you, I can outsell most people who have all these fancy stuff in place with you know, all the you know, prewebinar you know, kind of (inaudible 20:42.7) sequence to get them excited for the webinar and then all the various behavioral segments that you can do after the webinar based on the behaviors that they take and all that kind of fancy stuff and listen that should be there in place, but if you have that in place, but you do not have the core foundation in place, you are still not going to do good right. You know, as compared to, if you really nail down the core foundation of what it takes to sell high ticket product right because it is different than selling a low end product right. If you really nail that foundation and that foundation by the way is the, you know, the hook, the big idea of whatever it is that you are selling coming up with a really, really good offer you know, having content that is congruent with whatever it is that you are selling. Having a title of your webinar that is congruent with the content of your webinar you know. If you have really nail all that, you are going to sell so much more than if you have all these fancy bells and whistles in place, but you do not have that core foundation in place, okay. So that is where you have to start, so if you are doing it yourself, make sure that you have that in place you know, if you do not, if you cannot afford us or you know, whatever, that is fine, but make sure you have all that in place and that is why I am coming out with this is because you know, our fees to do with this automated webinars are not cheap you know what I mean. They are not technically cheap in terms of like actual you know dollars, but they are cheap when you compared it to like the results that you get right, like this client, he got a multiple times ROI you know, John in his first webinar, and now he runs that every single week, right. So it is -- I mean it is just, it is a complete no brainer for clients that you know, have the revenue right. And you know, of course, if you are listening to this and you have a high ticket product or service and you, you know, this message resonates with you then I want you to get in touch with me right, because you know, we have really narrowed down, we have really solidified our you know, our processes and our systems and our frameworks for building out these webinars for clients right. So if you do not want to wait for the product to come out right and either way is fine like if you do not have you know the funds and you would rather just wait for the product to come out next month you know, it is probably going to be $997 you know, that is probably -- I am just going to throw it out there now I mean it is very likely going to be the price. I have to think about it more but that is probably going to be the price, it is affordable for any you know, real business owner. So you know, if you really do not have the funds then just do that you know, that is totally fine, but if you have the funds you know, and a lot of times you know, I have even helped clients do like a little promotion to their list to come up with a funds you know, I have done that a lot, but if you have the funds for building anatomy of webinar which is typically you know, like the $6,000 to $10,000 range to build out one of these automated webinars for you wherein we do the whole thing, there is only one little kind of piece that we you know, basically you know, we work with you for like the content piece of the webinar because you are the you know, you are the content expert. So we kind of work with you on that aspect, but you know, if you have the funds, definitely get in touch because we are killing it with our clients with doing these you know, doing these webinars. I just you know, helped another client do it and they are making -- the last time I checked, you know, she was making $1,300 a day with you know, with her automated webinar you know, I mean we have done a lot of them you know, I have done some launching products you know, I have done and that was the one it did 6 times expected revenue. I did you know, somewhere, he was making $57 for every $7 that he spent you know, I mean we have done a lot of these for clients not to mention myself you know, they do all of our webinars really well, you know. A lot of the clients that I talked to on the phone have gone through the webinar and then they get in touch with me you know. So anyway, if you are interested in talking about you know, us building one of these webinars for you, feel free it is support@jeremyreeves.com and my -- that will go into my support team, they will forward it to me. Yeah, let us you know, talk about doing this for you because you know, our system, we can get them done fairly quickly. It takes I do not know, maybe 4 weeks or so depending on exactly what we are doing like I am building one now and it is for -- someone actually that I was on a summit with right, she interviewed me to go in her summit and then she hired me to build the funnel for her. So with hers, there is a little bit more because we are doing a -- basically, we are doing a promotion after the webinar. We have a couple of upsells and downsells. We have a thing you know, one of her funnels is working really well you know, we are king of putting that together before the webinar. So there is a bunch of different ways to do it, but you know, it is taking more of like 6 weeks, but usually, it is about 4 to 5 something like that kind of also depends on how many other clients we are working with it at the moment, all that kind of stuff. But anyway, if you are interested in that, get in touch and we will talk about you know, I can give you specific quote. I can tell you exactly how long it is going to take exactly what we are going to do for you, but you know, for now, just think about, I mean it is just a results like that is the big thing you know, the nitty gritty specifics really do not matter that much you know like how many emails we are putting in this sequence you know, blah, blah, blah. What matters is the result that you are going to get right, and the fact that you know when we build this, we build them so that you can profit from paid traffic right and you guys know how often I talk about how that is the holy grail of marketing because when you can run facebook ads and you are making ROI from those facebook ads, you are set. I mean you can go on vacation for 3 months and you know, the ads still run and you still make money and you know, especially if you are selling a product you know, you can automate the whole thing so you do not have to worry about it and you know, it is a beautiful thing. So that is it for today, I hope you enjoyed this. I hope you get a lot out of like how you know, the frameworks of building a webinar and like what you should not do which is basically you know, putting your focus on like the you know, the nitty gritty specifics and not focusing on the foundational stuff you know, it actually helps you sell you know whatever it is that you are selling in the webinar. So if you are interested, just get in touch at support@jeremyreeves.com again, you know, the fees are typically like the $6,000 to $10,000 range that depends on what you are selling basically how complex it is you know, if it is something simple, it will be on a lower end you know, free consultations things like that if you are selling a service on the lower end of that, if you are selling an information product you know, the pitch takes longer so that would be in the higher end you know, something like that. So get in touch and we will talk to you soon and until next time, you know, regardless if what I would like to leave you with is you know, if you do not have a high ticket product, think about what you can come up with that is $500 plus, right, and if you already have one and you do not have a webinar, that should be the next thing that you do okay. I know you have a lot of priorities, that should be like number 1 on your list because it is just going to make you sell more I mean it is just, every single time it helps you sell more you know, so do that and again, you know, if you do not really have the funds or if you just love to do stuff yourself you know and you have a talent for it then wait for next month for the product to come out you know, again, it is only going to be about like $1,000, it is really not much especially considering you know, you are going to make that back probably the first webinar you ever run and then otherwise, if you do not like going through all that hustle because they can be kind of pain in the ass to set up sometimes, then you know, then get in touch and we will build it up for you right and we will you know, we will make you some more money. So that is it, that is all I got for today. I am actually going to go back and start working again on my client’s webinar right now actually because that is my project for the day. So I will talk to you soon. I hope you enjoyed this and I will see you next time.

Most people are SO close to living a lifestyle most people only dream of, but they're stuck in the "average to above average" trap. In this episode I walk you through exactly how close you are by looking at your "breakeven point" and how you can actually 2-3x your personal income without even growing your business that much! Resources Mentioned support@jeremyreeves.com Transcript Hey everyone, Jeremy Reeves here again with another episode of the sales funnel mastery podcast. Today, I want to talk about money, right which we basically do every time in the podcast. So I just got back from New York city. I got invited to a yacht party up at New York city, so that was really fun you know, one of the cool perks of you know, owning your own business and knowing cool people that you get invited to stuff like that you know. It has been a lot of fun. I met a lot of really bad ass people. So I am kind of excited to you know, deepen the relationships of those people and you know, I got a lot of awesome pictures and having a great time. So now I am back and swinging things and you know, one of the things that I was actually thinking of on my drive home was the breakeven point, right. So this is something that you know, if you are listening to this you know that I talk about a lot and I want to kind of take the step further at this point because there are 2 you know, there are 2 kind of concepts that I have with breakeven and people do not realized how powerful it is you know. So the first one is breaking even on your marketing and you know, I always say that that is like the big kind of (inaudible 1:29.5) that is the big turning point in a business is when you hit breakeven with paid traffic, I am talking about. Because then you can afford to buy paid traffic and you can scale it up and then get you know increase the business to the backend, right. Very, very few businesses are profitable from first time customers you know what I mean. In 95 plus percent of businesses, most of the actual profit in that business and I am talking about revenue, I am talking about actual net profit that you actually you know, get to keep is made on the backend not on the first time purchase, right and that is why I talk about that all the time. In this one, I am actually talking about more of your personal finances. So I am going to run you through a couple of things and I want to show you how powerful this is right. Before I get into these numbers by the way, I made a little chart. I am going to try to make it very simple to follow. There is not too many numbers. So I am going to make a simple (inaudible 2:30.8) right. So what I want to say before I get into this is, Yes! I realized this is not perfect, okay. It is really hard doing spreadsheets like this taking into consideration like every little thing you know, taking this consideration marketing cost and which I kind of (inaudible 2:48.5) into COGS which I will get into in a sec and taxes and like you know, all that kind of stuff you know, having more employees as you grown and that kind of thing. So that stuff is not included in this, but it is really you know, those are kind of small numbers you know with this anyway so they really would not add up to all that much. So let me give (inaudible 3:10.2) right and basically what I am going to kind of show you is how close you are and this is for anybody that is you know, you kind of in that situation where your -- you know, you are doing good, but in your head you know that you can do so much better, right. I want to show you how close you are to that. So if you are at that point where it is like you know, you pay yourself a decent salary you know, the business is doing well but it is not really growing as fast as you hoped. And you are just like kind of sitting there and it is like, why the hell I am always kind of just in this phase where it is like I am little bit better than average you know what I mean. And I know a lot of entrepreneurs are in this phase you know. First of all, I think the reason for this just you know, my own kind of theory on this, I think the reason is, it is a mindset thing, it is a mental thing. I think you have an image of yourself of what you know, what can be possible and what is kind of possible for your own life and I think you kind of just create this like self-perpetuating loop that keeps you in that cycle of like kind of just above average or right at average or just below average or wherever you are right now. If you are in that stage where you have been there a while, it is most likely a some sort of psychological thing you know, and I am not saying you are weird or anything like that. It is a conditioning thing you know, growing up maybe your parents you know, were kind of average -- financially, I am talking about. That kind of thing, right. So not to get into like the whole psychological thing, but I want to walk you through this and show you how easy it is to actually go way above that and give -- and pay yourself way more money than you are making right now, right. So and again, these are example numbers I know yours are going to be different. I know it is not perfect, right, but just take it as the example, right and you can create your own spreadsheet to do this. So let us just say that you are gross profit every month is $20,000 okay. You are paying your employees -- so all of your employees combined $10,000 a month, right. And your COGS like you know, cost of goods sold. So this -- what I am putting here is basically marketing plus whatever it costs you actually get the product out of the door you know, so if you are selling physical product, it is like the cost of the product and shipping and that kind of thing. If you are selling a service it is going to be mostly marketing you know, that kind of goes into this. So that is another $5,000 and then you are paying yourself $5,000 a month, okay. At this point, you are breakeven. The business is breakeven because your you know, you are making $20,000 a month in actual revenue, right. You are giving $5,000 to yourself, $5,000 for you know, COGS and $10,000 to your employees. So you are breakeven, okay. And that is kind of where you have been hovering you know. You are kind of just at that stage where you just kind of sit in there. You are not really growing that much you know, that kind of thing. I want to show you all you have to do to double and by the way when I am talking about your income, I am talking about like your actual personal income like what you actually pay yourself, okay, because that is -- you know, a lot of people build their business you know, for revenue and it is like, why, you know. I was just talking to a client of mine actually. I did a promotion for him last year. I made him I think it was $80,000 something like that. So he reached back out, we are going to do kind of a similar thing and he was you know, telling me, everything that has been going on over the last year. And one of the things that he did was he was paying himself very, very, very, little right, and just plowing all the money back into his business and that is okay in certain instances -- in his, it is because when he sell, he is a building a business to sell. When he sells it, his industry it sells for really high multiple of cash flow or revenue rather. So for him, like his goal is just maximum revenue, right. So in that kind of thing and it is totally fine and it makes sense. For a lot of people that I talked to, so if you are in the kind of lifestyle business, right. If you have a service business or you know, you are not -- you are kind of like me, like my mine is more of a lifestyle business. I am not looking yet max revenue. I am looking at max personal income, right, and where I can find leverage points and things like that, okay. So that is kind of who I am talking to. If you are building your business to sell it purposely you know, that is the whole goal of your business, then this would not really apply all that much, although, it is still a good exercise to really know your numbers. So with that said, all you have to do to double your income right, so remember the gross profit was $20,000. All you have to do to double your personal income is get another $6, 700 a month. So that is like another 1/3 of your top line revenue, right. Let me show you the numbers there. So this one, you are getting, instead of $20,000, you are getting $26,700 in gross profit. You are paying yourself now $10,000 a month instead of $5,000. So you doubled your income right, still the same with your employees. Still the same -- well COGS, I did is 25% by the way. So that stays true at 25% right, so that is now $6,675 and that is really the only one that even goes up right. And now you are at let us see, now you are at gross profit of $26, 700 and your basically your, you know, your revenue now is $25. So you are you know, a couple of sandwiches above breakeven, but you are paying yourself $10,000 a month rather than $5. So you just went from $60,000 a year to $120,000. Huge, huge increased right. I can tell you from personal experience. Huge, huge, huge difference in your lifestyle right. Going from that like you know, once you get pass the $100,000 mark, you know, it makes a very, very, very big difference in how comfortable you are, you know what I mean. There is kind of like under $100,000 a year in most places, I mean everywhere is different you know, under $100,000 and you are really not living that great of lifestyle you know, it is kind of just average you know, whatever. Once you get a $100,000 you know, you are at least starting to be able to do things more comfortably. You are not worried about money all the time that kind of thing. And then you know, once you get about like $150,000 or $200,000 then you can really start to get you know, like a more lavish type of lifestyle you know. Then you get above like $500,000 or $1,000,000 mark and you are renting yachts and things like that, right. So anyway, and that is, by the way, that is kind of in the United States. I know that is going to be different based on the county you are at and all that kind of stuff and you know, your inflation rates and your you know, cost of living and like all that kind of stuff. But anyway, so that is all you have to is basically add about 1/3 to your top line revenue and you double your own personal income and then if you do that again and you go from $26,000 to $33,300 you can then pay yourself let us see -- you can then pay yourself $15,000 still have the same $10,000 in place and then your COGS go up from at the beginning at $20,000 they were $5,000 remember 25% off on top my revenue then you go to $8,325 but then and you come out your new net is -$25. So basically, all you do is you know, if you want to -- if you want to pay yourself more, if you are in that situation where it is like you know, I am working really hard and I need to pay myself more you know, so you can live a better lifestyle. I want you to do this exercise and figure out what your breakpoint is, your breakeven point because you are going to kind of hit a thing and you can do this by the way with your personal -- kind of your personal expenses and that kind of thing so like let us just say that you on average spend $5,000 a month, right. Well if you pay yourself $5,000 a month you are kind of just at that stage every month where you like okay, well, I can you know, do my stuff, I can go out a couple of times a month or whatever you know, it is okay. What you have to realize is that every dollar above $5,000 can go to whatever you want. So you can go. Let us just say that a brand new Corvette is -- I do not know, I do not even know how much they were. Let us just say that you want you know, whatever your car is right, you know, it is a $1,000 a month, right. I do not even know what that (inaudible 12:24.1) I am not really into cars. I actually used to want a Corvette until I can afford one and when I realized that I can actually afford one I did not want it anymore which is kind of funny. It is also kind of you know, because it is just totally impractical, I mean we have you know, 2 kids you know, that kind of thing and we live in Pennsylvania, so you know, you can only drive it for like half a year. So it is totally impractical. So we have a big you know nice Tahoe. Anyway, you know, a lot of people they look at people with nice cars and they were like, “oh my God, oh my God” you know, but if your expenses are $5,000 and you are making $5,000 well you cannot afford that, right. So let us just say, $2,000 car because that will probably buy you, I mean you could probably get like a Maserati for $2,000 right. So all you have to do you know, is make $7,000 a month then you can then afford a Maserati and you can look like this big you know, hot shot, you have a giant ego and all that kind of stuff. Whereas, you are really not making that much more money than somebody else you know, but you can then afford it and that is the power of this, is when you hit that point, you know, when you hit that kind of like breakeven point, everything above that is so much more profitable you know, it goes to your lifestyle or it goes to your whatever it is or your you know, even if you are looking to this not as lifestyle like not like buying cars and houses and stuff, but investing right. Either back in your business or investing like for personal you know, the real estate or stock market or whatever. There is always this like line right, where up until at that point, you are kind of just working to hit that line and then everything above that, like every dollar that you make is worth -- is so much more valuable to whatever your goal you are trying to achieve right, and that is what I am trying to show you here is I want you to find that line, both personally and in your business by the way. I have my numbers from both personal and business right. It is going to change over time as you add employees, as you add expenses personally you know, whatever, but it is so liberating having that you know, having that line because then you know like okay, I have to make you know, I have to make whatever $15,000 a month right and that is my breakeven and then everything above that goes like you can save or you can reinvest or whatever you are doing with your extra money. You can reinvest you know 50% to 75% more in most cases after you get pass that line right. It is very motivating knowing what that line is because then when you have month and you are looking at your you know, you are looking at your numbers for the month and you were like, Oh, you know, yes we got that passed that and that is you know, you can kind of celebrate and you are always just pushing towards that goal. You are pushing and pushing and trying to make sure that that is what your reaching you know, and then of course, you continually increase that goal you know, once you -- are having months were they always above breakeven well then you know, then you start to try and you know change that goal and continue pushing and you know, just being the bad ass that you are. So that is it for today, I just wanted to -- I thought that was kind of a cool exercise to go through and I know that a lot of people have that you know, and a lot of people they do not really look at it that way you know, but I want you to -- do not just listen to this you know, a lot of people maybe they are going (inaudible 15:53.7) in your car or whatever you are doing, taking a shower or something or you are in the toilet or whatever it is that you are doing, while you are listening to this. Hopefully it is not something too weird, slightly weird is okay. You know, do not just listen to this and then you know, kind of go to the next podcast and just forget about it you know. I want you to actually sit down and figure out what your breakeven point is, right. And feel free like if you want to you know, email me just shoot me at an email at support@jeremyreeves.com I can send you my calculator that I have, but basically, it is just you know a spreadsheet, there is gross profit, personal employees COGS, total expenses, and net profit and then you just figure out the calculations for each which hopefully anybody listening to this can do that fairly easily. It is not that hard. It is pretty simple arithmetic. Although, I guess if you are not familiar with the spreadsheet maybe that is different because you have to know how to work a spreadsheet. But that is it. As always, if you are enjoying this you know, if you like the podcast make sure you are sharing it with your friends, like I have been saying in the last couple of times our you know, our downloads have been going way, way up, it has been continually increasing so if you guys are telling your friends, I would really appreciate it, it is showing in the numbers so that is awesome. I want to get you know as many people listening to this as I can obviously because then it makes it more worth me doing it, right. I have a whole bunch of really cool interviews lined up for you. We just went and reached out to a whole bunch of new guest to have on here. I think we just booked like 8 of them something like that. So there is a whole bunch lined up for you. I am really excited about it. Also, actually, I have something -- I have some news for you but I am going to wait until maybe the next podcast to announce that. Another thing is I am going to be working on a new product which is awesome. I kind of just came up with it. I realized that I am very, very, very good at a certain thing. I am not going to give it away yet, but I am at a certain -- I am very, very good at a certain thing in you know, in funnels you know what I mean. Like there is a lot of different things you can do with funnels obviously, we (inaudible 18:08.2) copywriting and it has to do with that, but it is something that I, for some reason, have never thought of putting training together for and it is going to be really, really bad ass. I am going to spend the next couple of weeks or months putting it all together for you, but maybe next time, I will announce it, so you will know it is coming, something like that. But anyway, I hope you have a good day. I hope this -- I hope you enjoyed this. I hope it added value to your life and made you, you know, it kind of open your eyes up a little bit and more importantly, I hope you actually go and you know, figure these numbers out for yourself, right. So yeah, that is it. If you are interested in working together with us you know, to help build your funnel, as always, shoot an email to support@jeremyreeves.com and we will talk to you soon, alright, bye.

In today's episode, we have Joseph Sanok on the line. Joseph decided to specialize in showing other counselors how to market their businesses so they can enjoy more time actual counseling and less time marketing, which is something they typically don't like doing. In this episode we discuss how he's getting great results and how to apply them in YOUR business even if you're not in the service industry!   Resources Mentioned Huffington Post www.practiceofthepractice.com/start bluehost aweber grasshopper ontraport http://www.practiceofthepractice.com/perfection Amazon http://www.practiceofthepractice.com/consulting-with/joe joe@practiceofthepractice.com   Transcript Jeremy Reeves: Hey everyone. Jeremy Reeves here with another episode of the sales funnel mastery podcast. Today, I have on the line Joseph Sanok, and Joe is a small business consultant and he focuses -- I think this is kind of a cool interview. He focuses on the health sector with counselors in private practice, coaches, and consultants. He has been featured on Huffington Post and yahoo news and which is kind of cool. He has the number 1 podcast for counselors in private practice. So we are going to dig in and you guys know that I have been kind of bringing people on the podcast lately that are not in our typical space if you will, you know, the internet marketing kind of space because that is becoming just crazy anymore with a bunch of nonsense. So I want to bring Joe on and kind of get his unique insights into a totally different market and then bring it back and show you guys how to implement everything he is doing in your business. So Joe, welcome. Joseph Sanok: Thanks so much for having me Jeremy. Jeremy Reeves: Yeah, I appreciate you coming on. So before we get into all the good stuff, tell everybody a little bit more about what you do. Joseph Sanok: Yeah. So I am mental health counselor. So when you think about coming in and sitting on somebody’s couch and talking about divorce and you know, parenting issues that is what I have done for most of my career, but in 2009, my private practice, I started to grow it kind of on the side, and in 2015, it had grown so much that I was able to leave my full-time job. And really that was because I figured out a number of key ways to level up my career, sales funnels being one of those to really be able to charge more not just in counseling, but as a consultant to counselors. To really talk about the tools it takes to grow an effective business. And so as I have done that, I have launched podcast. I have done a number of other things to just teach counselors and people that have small businesses about how to continue to grow and how to level up. Jeremy Reeves: Sounds good. I love it you know. I see you have done interviews with a bunch of kind of cool that I know. Pat Flynn, John Lee Dumas, Chris Tucker, Rob Bell, Glennon Doyle Melton, and J.V. Crum III. I never heard him. Joseph Sanok: Yeah. He is the Conscious Millionaire. He is the Conscious Millionaire podcast. You know, it is funny, I have not heard of him until he reached out to be on my show and then as I search to learn more from him. We are putting together a conference called Blueprint to 100K that is going to be coming out in October 2016 in Denver. He is a cool guy. Jeremy Reeves: Nice, nice. I like it. So let us get into, let us see. Let us start because I know we can talk about all kinds of different things. You went into a pretty competitive field you know, basically everything is competitive anymore, but you know, what did you do to make yourself kind of stand out, and first of all, why did you choose that specialty. Joseph Sanok: Well, you know, for me, business was really something that I had a terrible feeling about. Early in college, I sell vacuum cleaners door to door. Learn some really bad business practices and so I thought business was this like slimy feel it seemed like all the guys I met in college they were majoring in business were just like the kind of guys that did not want to hang out with it. No offense to any business majors out there. But you know, then when I started to read some books and learn about some of the basics of marketing and business, I realized I had not learned any of that in graduate school, in counseling, and psychology, but I was supposed to be running a private practice. I was supposed to be creating programs and getting people to make buying decisions, but I had zero classes in marketing, businesses, sales, and copy. And so as I learned this, I actually had my why behind it of being really you know, excited about helping angry kids and frustrated parents and distant couples. Then, business actually started to matter to me. That has been the common story for especially counselors that have gone through kind of traditional counseling programs where for them it is just business is not taught and so as I learned I thought, well I am just going to start a blog, talking about what I am learning to be a co-learner. And so it really, it was more of an experiment at first to see is there a market here. I did very little market research which actually you know, usually I suggest people do some market research to see if there is -- any market research or anything out there that are already kind of selling, but for me it was actually really good because I did not have any kind of copying of other people’s material. I was not influenced by other private practitioners. It really, I think, helped me create what I thought would be the best kind of version of learning about business as a private practice owner. And then really, I just kept following my curiosity and so I was a big fan of -- still, I am a fan of Pat Flynn. I feel like as I thought about how do I build passive income. How do I grow my own kind of leveling up so that I can charge more beyond just the counseling session. How do I meet influencers in the field. It was natural to say, well how do I best connect with my audience and so a podcast was really one of the first things that I was looking at. And I think the one big piece of advice to your audience is to look at where there are less people. At the time that I launched my private practice, there was only 1 other podcast that was aimed at counselors and private practice and that was the American Counseling Associations podcast and they had been dormant for about 6 months. So when I launched that podcast specifically for counselors and private practice, right away, it was the number 1 podcast. Now, there is a lot that are in the field now, but there is a ton of examples of people doing this you know, back in the day, there was just one kind of tire, and so people would say, we are the oldest tire company. But then, you know, tire companies came out and added an extra you know, millimeter and they said, we are the thickest tire company you know, the longest lasting. So they created new markets and I think that is where you can really quickly level up and differentiate yourself by figuring out where is the nobody or where is the you know, just a handful of people that are not doing it well and how can I positioned myself to be number 1 in that area right away. Jeremy Reeves: Yeah, absolutely you know, and I think that is a pretty common thing that people do not do you know what I mean. You have to you know, you have to go into a niche that has competitors because if you do not, I mean the most -- I mean unless you are coming out something that is totally brand new like you know, the Ipod when it was first released or something like that. You have to go into something that has competitors but not -- you have to be able to then specialize yourself so that it is -- like you said, only a handful you know what I mean. Joseph Sanok: But even the Ipod for example, I mean that was -- there are already so many MP3 players that were terrible at that time. When that came out they all -- a lot of those had (inaudible 7:07.4) or they would not load enough songs or it takes so much time. And so even looking at what is happening and where people are doing a really shoddy job and how do you just take that shoddy job and make it a little bit better. I mean there are so many of those strategies that you can just look at the current market and say, how can I improve on this. What is the part of this that is super annoying to people. I do not have to reinvent it. I can just take the annoying part out. Jeremy Reeves: Yeah, yeah, I love that. Take the annoying part out. That is actually a really good one. I like that. That is awesome. Let us see. So, what do you do you know, for actually -- so you have the podcast, what else are you doing in your marketing you know, if you have the sales funnel you know, what else are you doing to help you kind of stand out in that market or is it just podcast? Joseph Sanok: No, no. I think the podcast was a great way to connect with other influencers not just in the field of counseling, but people that are outside of it. Like people like yourself are talking about things that applied to counselors in private practice, but is a totally different field. So I referenced that connection with J.V. Crum III. He is not helping counselors in private practice. He is helping people that want to go from usually about 200 thousand a year to a million dollars a year. That is like his main focus. So the podcast has been the great place where I can find those partnerships that can help me level up my own career. So conferences and mini conferences has been a great way for me to do that and so we do a lot of sales funnel that we can talk about for that, but for example, for the last 2 years, in (inaudible 8:38.6) I have hosted with a couple of my other consulting friends, the most awesome kind of friends and so that is 3 grand per person. We have between 30 and 40 people come to that and we have probably about 30 grand in sponsors that come on board as well. We have a food truck pulling every day. We have massage therapist, pool side. We have you know, baristas cooking up espresso for people. Everyone gets their own headshots and 1 minute video. Individual coaching with each of the coaches as well as kind of some teachings. So that has been another thing that has helped me continue to level up my career where when you are creating events, when you are creating the teachings and bringing in together people that maybe even farther ahead in their career than you are, that can then build that assumption that well there are these 3 other consultants that are at this level. Joe must be at that same level as these people. When in reality, it is like, well let us bring together some great minds that maybe are doing things that are beyond what I am doing, but now I am lumped into that same cohort that I was not in 3 years ago. So the more that you can do that where you are genuinely helping other people in their career and especially people that maybe a step or two ahead of you, I mean they are not you know, the Pat Flynns that are already well known, you want the people that are just a couple of steps ahead of you. And finding where you have those natural emotional connections. I was interviewing this guy recently and we just got along so well and you know, we scheduled a 15-minute call for kind of later in a month, that we are going to brainstorm like should we put on a conference together. Is there some synergy here, and he has done some amazing key notes. So from a speaking perspective, he is way ahead of me, but when it comes to selling e-courses and doing conferences, he has not done that and so we may have synergy, we may not. So I think that finding those natural relationships and then informing your sales funnel through that is where the authenticity comes out and that is what people want to buy is the authenticity and the genuine helpfulness to them. Jeremy Reeves: Yeah, yeah. You know, I totally agree and it really -- let me ask you this. Do you think that type of stuff would not happen if you did not specialized? Joseph Sanok: I mean it could have happened, but I think the best part of the specialty is that you can get hyper focused and make tools in the area that nobody else can keep up with. You can say I am helping counselors in private practice. You can make infographics. You can have you know, a member’s newsletter. You can have all these different levels of products that are in hyper niche market, and by specializing, it has allowed me then to charge a higher premium as well because nobody else is doing that you know. If you just say I help people with online marketing. Okay, great. There is a lot of people that do that. How do you stand out when you are looking at online marketing. What is it that you bring to the people that is different and so I even have consulting clients that are you know, in their 20s that I would say, okay, Snapchat is taking off right now. Why don’t you become a Snapchat consultant rather than a social media consultant. Businesses want to jump in to Snapchat, but they do not even know what it is. You know that inside and out like you could charge $100 to $200 and you are like a freshman in college. And so really finding where are those hyper niche areas I think is where you can really level up the amount that you can charge as well. Jeremy Reeves: Yeah, yeah, definitely you know. It is kind of like -- I always like to bring it back to the doctor analogy you know, that you can be a like a general doctor and make like, whatever they make like $100 to $120 grand a year something like that. Obviously, depending on where you are living or you could be you know, my brother-in-law is a cardiologist you know, he is probably making I do not know around $350 grand or so. So it is like 3.5 times income and then the next level from that is something like a brain surgeon and they are probably making I do not know upwards you know, at least a high 6 figures maybe even 7 you know what I mean. It really just -- the more niche you get and also not even the more niche, but the more responsibility I think that you have on your hands, the more you get paid you know what I mean. Joseph Sanok: Absolutely. And I think that it is also like what are the tools that people are using. And so, you know, the average counselors are going to charge $70 to maybe you know, I know a couple of counselors that -- they are like $300s in L.A. maybe $500 if you are super specialized and really focusing on a specific niche, but what are those people using to be able to do it because if I can teach someone how to go from $100 an hour to $200 an hour like I am now worth way more than $200 an hour because I am just bringing them up to there. So now I am worth $500 an hour or $600 an hour. So if you can look at how do I help people get to where I am at, to me that is where you can really start to charge more. People are going to pay for that too because you are teaching them how do they level up their careers as well. Jeremy Reeves: Yeah, definitely. So you know, going back to you know, kind of the you know, the market that you help and the results that you are getting them you know, what are they like, when you are selling yourself, how are you -- I am trying to think about what a good way to say this you know. What is the pay-off that you are giving to people. I want to look into your like, kind of like your selling strategy a little bit. What is the end result you know that you are getting your clients, and then also, how do you set that up in your sales funnel, is it page, is it you know, do you talk to people on the phone like what is your actual you know look like to get the new clients. Joseph Sanok: So I have 3 major buckets of people that I served and it took me a while to really figure out who my audience was, but 1 bucket are people that are just starting a counseling private practice. So they are fresh out of school or they have a full-time gig and they want to do a side gig that maybe they want to grown into a full practice, maybe they just want to pay off student loan debt. So people that are just starting out, then there is people that want to grow their practice and so people that want to grow their practice maybe they are a sole proprietor, it is just them they want to add counselors to their practice or they want to level up the amount that they are charging or in some way, they want to expand what their working on within an established practice and then that 3rd bucket is people that want to move in to become a consultant. So that is people that maybe they are really good at social media and a private practice or maybe they are you know, like mompreneur and they want to be a consultant to other mompreneurs or like I have a number of different people that are becoming consultants that I am teaching. So each of those 3 buckets, they have different needs. They have different problems. They also have different price points, and so I have very different things for each of those. So let us take kind of -- start a private practice folks. So these are people that often times have student loan debt. They maybe in one of their first jobs making a $30 to $40,000 a year and they want to do this as a side gig. So financially, they are not going to have you know, the $500 to $1,000 minimum for 4 months you know, for individual consulting with me. They are going to be like I can barely you know, pay my bills, but I do want to do this. I want to make $100 an hour. I want to make $200 an hour in a private practice. So I have a free opt in that is at www.practiceofthepractice.com/start. So that is a 28-step checklist for starting your private practice. So that then gives me leads of people that are just starting out, but also, I have some affiliate links on that. So what kind of things to someone that is starting a practice need. Well, they need a website. So, you know, I have a link to bluehost. They usually want to start an email list. So I have an affiliate link to aweber. So I have different tools that I used you know, grasshopper phone systems. So I have a tool link to that. So I monetized it through some of those affiliate links primarily, but once they are on to start a private practice list, then I can specialize in giving them more content. So they get automated emails over the next 26 weeks on what they need to do so start a practice. So within that, about week 5, they get a link that is about how I have my member’s newsletter that used to be a $149 a year, but it dropped down to a one-time price of $17. So now, they can get lifetime access to that. They get a weekly email over a year walking them through exactly what they need to do launch their practice. And so, they convert there. But then I also offer you know, a few different things. So for example, I just did something called blog sprint, which was where -- it was a group of people that over 2 weeks, we each wrote 10 blog posts and they learn all of the SEO and we have a daily webinar for 4 days in a row where I was live. They went and took half an hour of action then came back. We did Q&A for half an hour. So then with that, I you know, save the videos. It is going to be coming at e-course, but I had 30 people go through and each paying $97 each. So, yeah, I get paid $3,000 for doing a handful of webinars and then I also have the content for my e-course eventually that I am going to then add into that sales funnel for people that are new in private practice. Yeah, so then if we move to the people that want to grow, that is where my sales funnel is going to aim more, getting them to do individual consulting or join one of my mastermind groups. So similar flow but it is going to be where I want them to eventually do individual consulting with me at the $500 to $1000 a month depending on the size package that they get. Jeremy Reeves: Cool, cool. Yeah, and I want everybody to kind of you know, pay attention to the different levels based on where the audience is at you know, and if you have noticed you know, some of the -- so for people just starting out, it was kind of lower price it was more of a beginner stuff obviously and it takes them essentially up the ladder you know, if you will. And there is different -- there is different options for different people because you know, your various audience segments have different needs you know what I mean. What is your you know, the top, top thing, like is what the highest that someone can pay you? Joseph Sanok: Yeah, so -- it depends on how you would say, I mean, the most awesome conference is $3000 for a couple of days with me and some friends. It says more of an in person and it is a collaborative thing where you know, they get the photos and the video. So that is kind of its own beast I would say, but right now, I would say most people that you know, would spend the most would be for the individual consulting. The most I have had is $1,500 a month. We meet twice a month and then they get some e-products to go with it as well as some phone support and email support. And I post all my monthly income every single month in my website. I have done that since 2011 when I was making $1,000 a month and last month was $41,000 month. Yeah, I mean -- I definitely you know, the average counselor makes I think it is like $55,000 a year. So I almost hit that in 1 month. Jeremy Reeves: Nice, nice. It’s awesome. Congrats. Joseph Sanok: Thanks. Jeremy Reeves: Yeah, and you can see like -- and I am actually, I am on the page now. Let us see. I am going to tell everybody how much you earned. Joseph Sanok: Yeah. The one for last month I think it goes live in a couple of days, but yeah, I think the May 1 is probably up. Jeremy Reeves: Okay, got you. Joseph Sanok: But I earned almost 250 million dollars last year. I think I missed it by like $14,000 or something like that. Jeremy Reeves: That sucks. I hate that. Yeah, like, I am looking at it now. It is September 2012 is $1,300 and then let us go the next year. September 2013, is $3,000. September 2014 is $7,000. September 2015 is $22,000. Joseph Sanok: Yeah. Early 2015, I did some new branding. I updated my website and that is when I really started partnering with a lot more people and got the most awesome conference going and so you really saw the results. I had my first 5 figure a month I think in early 2015 and then I think I have my first $20,000 a month later that year. Jeremy Reeves: Yeah and I can see like it goes up to May and then it is all you know, in the teens essentially and then June is 28 and then it goes back down to teens and then it is all 20s from there. And then this year it is mostly like the higher 20s or 30s. I think you just had 40. That is awesome. Joseph Sanok: That was my first -- I had not hit the 40, so 41 for the whole June 2016. Jeremy Reeves: I love hitting the new you know, the new whatever 10 or you know, whatever the new big goal is. It is always exciting. Joseph Sanok: What is crazy about it is so June, I was on vacation for the first week of the month. This summer I have taken every Monday and Friday off and so I really tried to focus in. I am just working Tuesday, Wednesday, and Thursday. And so it is not like I am working 90 hours a week now you know, it is a -- you know, 20 to 30 hours a week of really, really focused time. Jeremy Reeves: Yes, you know what, let us go into that. Because we hear your sales funnel is pretty good and I know you have some kind of cool you know, productivity and goal setting techniques and I am always -- I think you know, productivity is one of those, it is one of those topics that is so insanely important, but it is kind of like boring for people. So for all the listeners, listen up because even though it is “kind of boring subject,” I am going to force you to listen to it, because it is good for you and you need to learn it, and that is why you know, I always talked about it like you know, I am always, I am all about lifestyle and all that kind of thing. I am actually going a little bit early today. We are taking our kids to the park. I took last Friday off. I forgot what I even took it off for. I forgot what was even for. We took our kids, I did a half day. We took them to the pool, they go swimming. This Friday, I am taking off because it is my son’s birthday, so I am taking off. I am going to work I do not know 3 hours in the morning maybe. And then we are taking them for lunch in the park and go and see a movie and coming home and then eating going for pizza on the way home you know, things like that. So like, I am huge you know, with the whole lifestyle thing and it is not that I do not work you know. I work you know, typically like 6 to 3 everyday, but they are so focused and I get so, I am so productive in those hours that I am able to take Friday afternoon off you know what I mean. So let us kind of dig into that a little bit you know. Tell us about -- Joseph Sanok: I think a lot of people feel like productivity is this boring thing, but let us flip in and ask why do we want to be productive. Well, on most Mondays, I go stand up paddle boarding with my wife and daughters and with some friends you know. Most Fridays, you know, I either drop my daughter off at whatever summer camp she is doing or we do something fun as a family or maybe I just like straighten the house, so the weekend can be like just total fun. So productivity is just in the same way that a budget tells your money where to go. Productivity and figuring that out is auditing where you are spending your time. And so for me, it really came out of 2012. So in 2012, it was one of those just hell years for my family. My daughter, who is just under a year old had open heart surgery right after that and this while I am working a full-time job and had just launched the podcast and had just launched this like blog. Two weeks after we get the all clear from my daughter’s heart, I get diagnosed with thyroid cancer and so I have to my thyroid out, go down to MD Anderson to have that removed, they have some radioactive iodine treatment. My wife then has a miscarriage and it is just one of those years where it is like seriously, how much more can the Sanok family take. And when you are in the midst of 2012, so that might be your year this year, maybe it was 1984 or like whatever year that has been for you. For one, you examined what matters, but for two, you pull back in all the unnecessary crap and so you do not sit and do email for an hour because your daughter is going to have heart surgery next week. You know you just got diagnosed with cancer and so sitting and playing on Facebook and wasting a bunch of time there compared to hanging out with your family or going out to dinner with them just becomes more important. And so during that time I was working my full-time job, I knew I needed to have the benefits for it, obviously, with all that medical stuff happening. But I also knew that that was not the long term plan. And so I had to get hyper focused on what are the things that are going to make me money if I am going to spend time away from my daughter who is going to have a heart surgery or my family when I am going through cancer treatment. And so -- in the midst of it you would never wish that on somebody else, but it gave me some amazing habits out of that and I was already a pretty productive person, but it just like took me to a whole new level. And so a couple of things I discovered from there is having a notes section on your phone, just use the note section. Start with a today list and then within that same section, have a someday list. We all, especially entrepreneurs have all these ideas of, oh my gosh, I could do this or I could do this or I could do this just put it on the someday list, examined it later. So you do not lose it, but then you also are not spending your mental energy for the day on those things that do not matter. The second thing that I started doing was really looking at, what is my big goal okay, so maybe this year I want to have more individual consulting clients. How am I going to make that happen. Well, I need to really focus on getting to the people that are growing their small business. So I need to set up landing pages. So I started kind of brainstorming what are all the components that are going to help me with that, (inaudible 26:11.4) building my sales funnel. So in this week, what can I do. Okay, I do not have say, any email response system setup. So I am going to look into aweber. I am going to look into ontraport. I am going to look into all these other things. I am going to watch some videos. So really not just breaking down into a goal but micro goals, so that if you find yourself with 10 extra minutes you know, as we all do, you will just sit around and say, oh what should I do, you spend that 10 minutes being productive because that is 10 minutes you could be spending with your family, that you could be stand up paddle boarding, that you could be doing whatever it is that fills you up as a person that has nothing to do with your business. So when you start breaking down into super micro goals of things that you can do when you find yourself with 10 minutes to keep moving that needle forward, that helps you being not just productive, but hyper productive. So that you can start to slowly eliminate those aspects of your work that just do not help the bottom line. Jeremy Reeves: Yeah, I love that, that idea of micro goals. It is actually funny because I am a really, really, really productive guy, but I have -- that is one of my big like kind of pet peeves. Is when you know, a meeting goes early or you know, basically you have a couple of minutes between that and the next thing and you kind of just like sit there you know, because it is not enough time to really dig in to something, but it is like you know, you need those little micro goals like that like something small that it just gets out of your head and you know, you get it done in whatever it is 5 minutes or whatever. I like that. I am going to start doing that. Joseph Sanok: Well, I mean, even something that is simple so like say someone shows up late to a meeting or an online call or whatever its going to be that you need to do and you find yourself with that time, saying, what is something that I can get interrupted by, so like say, I was running late and Jeremy you know, sitting on the other side and -- what can I do while I am waiting for Joe to show up to our interview. Well you know, something like I am going to go through and delete the emails I know I do not need to read or even further, I am going to go into the ones I do not read that keep coming into my inbox and I am going to unsubscribe from all of those. Okay, I can do 10 of those, that is going to save me time overall, but it is not going to take up any mental energy before I go into this podcast interview. So having a small list of those kind of things that are going to help you continue to be more productive is just going to help you overall just cut the fat out of your business and be super lean to be productive and then help your bottom line with your time, but also your money. Jeremy Reeves: Yeah, yeah, I love it. So if you wake up -- you know, just say you work in 3 days per a week, so you have you know, big to do list, you have all these different things that you want to get done. How do you prioritize them not only in terms of the week, but also the day you know. So for example, with my -- the way that I am -- like most of my work is, most of my heavy work is writing, but then, there is also like the that is like the client side of things, but then there is also just right running the business, the administrative you know, type of stuff, doing podcast and writing articles and you know, all that other stuff that you have to do to you know, to be able to get the clients and to be able to keep your business going you know. So how do you like -- so how do you structure your day and your week in terms of like priorities like that? Joseph Sanok: Sure. So one of the things we know from brain research is that really in a day, you only have so much brain space that you can use on tasks and highly effective people like Steve Jobs or Barack Obama have figured it out ways to take the decision making out of their day. So for example, every night, the night before, I put my clothes out so I do not have to worry about what I am going to put on my body and have that be a decision. Barak Obama only has 2 colors of suits. When Steve Jobs decided that he liked his black turtle neck, he ordered a hundred of them and so the kinds of people that are highly effective takes those little decisions out so that they have more brain space for the things that matter. So one thing that I do is, in my schedule, I have certain things that repeat every single week. So my podcast goes live on Tuesday and I know that I want to take Monday and Friday off, so Thursday mornings, I am blackout to repeat work on podcast. So that way, if I have not got the podcast all set for the next week, I can you know, get it done that morning. So I may not have to do that, maybe I get it done on Tuesdays so that I can blog or do something else, but at least I know that that is when I am going to make sure that I get my podcast done. So there is not that extra stress or that extra worry. And so looking at what are the patterns and the things that you need to do to keep moving the needle forward is really important because then, if you put some automations into your schedule, so for example, I want to do most of my consulting with people between 1 and 3 because that seems like kind of the best time for me you know, I just had lunch. I feel fully present. I am going to do counseling private practice, people do not usually want it quite that early and so I will just automatically blackout time that that is going to be for my consulting, for my one-on-one consulting with people. It takes the decision making out so then I can use my brain for the things that are most important for my business. And then the other thing that I do is when I know say, I am driving into my office, it is a 10-minute commute. If I know that I am going to be a writing blog post or if I know I am going to be say on local radio, promoting something or talking about counseling topics. I think about those key kind of pillars of the blog post or of the talk and really try to get them down in my head and maybe even write them down in a notepad, in a stop light, or you know, doing an audio memo, whatever works for you so that when I am in the front of that blank screen or when I need to work on something like I already have the topic figured it out and I have the basic structure for figuring it out so that I can then quickly write that blog post or I can quickly write that copy because I have already brainstorming about it before I set down with that blank screen. Jeremy Reeves: Yeah, you know, I love that and I actually do that for the podcast like for my own podcast and also for articles that I write. Anytime I get an idea, it goes in. I used SONA for my project management. So I have a thing it is called JR Content Ideas. So anytime I need a new podcast, I actually just record it on this morning before our (inaudible 32:11.0). I literally just you know, go into SONA, I click on the little thing and it is loading up right now and I have, I do not know exactly how many, roughly 25 ideas in there. So I literally just go down the list, -- okay, I am going to talk about that one you know. And then I just -- I mean for me, like you know, my podcast, I know the stuff you know, front and back, so I literally just okay you know, here is one about trip wires right, so I can just hit record and I just go you know, for like 20 minutes or half hour or something like that and then I am you know, and then I am done and then I hit export, it goes to my assistant and from there on out it is out of my hands you know. Yeah, you know, so I definitely agree with that. It is the same thing even for your client projects I do that you know, if I get an idea, if I get like a hook idea or an angle idea or something for bullets or you know, different way of saying something, I make a note in SONA and then like in their project because every client has a kind of project in a SONA and then you know, when I am working on that project, at that point, it is out of my head, it is cleared out of my you know, my head space and then the next time I am working on that project it could be you know, later that day or you know, a week from now, then I go into that and the idea is right there you know, and I do not have to try to sit there and remember it. I do not have to you know, whatever it is just there. So yeah, I love that. Joseph Sanok: I think finding the system that works for you that you can do every day. So you know, I pulled out my notes section, I look into my today list, I look into my schedule the night before, so I am mentally prepared for what I need to do. So looking at -- so I have my consulting client and then after that I knew I was doing this podcast with Jeremy so I am going to then look back at our emails, I am going to check out our website again so that it’s -- kind of a lean manufacturing like just in time kind of idea. So putting things back to back. So for example, right after this call, I have a counseling appointment that is going to be here in a couple of minutes and then right after that, I have consulting client that I am meeting with. And so when I get in that like I am doing counseling or I am doing consulting mode, I want to try as best I can to go back to back and to keep the people that I am working with on time too to show that there is that professionalism, but also the -- like I need to get a lot done because every minute that I am standing here that I am doing a podcast interviews I am not hanging out with my 5-year-old or my 2-year-old. And to me, that is super important that I am father at home that is fun, that is you know, filled up, that financially provides all of that. So I need to be as effective as possible when you know I am in business mode. Jeremy Reeves: Yeah, absolutely. I love it. Well, hey, you know, I have a blast talking with you so far and we have actually been talking for like an hour and a half now because I was just on your podcast. Joseph Sanok: Yeah, yeah. I have a free e-course that I wanted to give to your listeners. Usually, it is about $100, but if they go over to http://www.practiceofthepractice.com/perfection it is a 19-minute video all about how to move from being paralyzed by perfection to getting things done. You can see some of my hacks that I used. I talked about you know, making sure that you are moving forward rather than just kind of thinking and thinking about making it perfect. There is also a 19-page download that goes with that. Jeremy Reeves: Nice. I am actually going to -- I am actually going to get that too because I always you know, as productive as I am, I always like to kind of refresh all of my things and what I do is I try to, I try to look at ways, look at new techniques and strategies to beat what I am already doing you know what I mean. Even if it is just a little stuff over time because if you, you know, if you have whatever a hundred little different things that you do and you beat one of them every you know, every couple of days, every 3 days that is -- your doubling it every year you know what I mean. Joseph Sanok: Yeah, absolutely. The book by Charles Duhigg, it just came out, Smarter, Faster, Better is amazing. It is so good. It has a ton of case studies. People finding not just productivity, but increasing their quality while reducing the amount of time it takes to do that. It is a great book I recommend to your listeners. Jeremy Reeves: Sounds good and I am going to buy it right now. Yeah, yeah, alright and I just bought that. You got to love Amazon. Yeah, it is literally bought. So anyway, yeah. So let us see, before we head off you know, I always like to ask you know, is there anything that I have not asked or kind of one parting you know, lesson that you want to leave people with before you head off? Joseph Sanok: Yeah, I would say, the parting lesson I would leave is think about your why, like why are you trying to make more money? Why are you trying to grow this business? Let that be kind of -- if you think about a car, that is like the gas pedal and then you have your where that you headed towards and that is like you know, the spot on the map and then your how is going to be kind of your steering wheel of the small little micro decisions that make. You can figure out your own why and start there. It then helps to find who you want to work with. It then helps to find the products that they care about and can afford and then that leads into the content that you are going to create. So it is almost like a personal funnel for yourself of figuring out like why I am doing this. How am I going to do this. Who am I going to serve and then how do I best do that for them. Jeremy Reeves: Yeah, sounds good. I love it, I love it and I fully agree. So yeah, last thing, just let everybody know and you know, you already did that , but say it again I guess or if there is any other ways that you want people to you know, to get in touch with you and see you know, if they can work together or you know, whatever you know, whatever the best next step it is for people to take. Joseph Sanok: So for people who are interested in working together, I do a free 30-minute consultation where we talk all about -- like what are you trying to achieve. What are the big ambitious goals that you want to go after. So people can connect with me at http://www.practiceofthepractice.com/consulting-with/joe or you can just email me joe@practiceofthepractice.com we can connect there. I am on all the social media if you just search my name, you will find me there. Jeremy Reeves: Sounds good, yeah. You know, as always we will have all the links in the show notes so you do not have to remember the URL, just kind of click the link in the show notes, you will go right there. Hey, it was a pleasure my friend. I will look forward to kind of keeping in touch and becoming more productive together. Joseph Sanok: Absolutely. Thanks so much Jeremy. Jeremy Reeves: Thanks. Have a good one. Joseph Sanok: You too. Bye.      

Hey guys! This episode is a super quick one telling you about a unique opportunity to spend the day with me in New York City on August 1st. Listen in and shoot me an email at jeremy@jeremyreeves.com if you're interested!   Resources Mentioned www.JeremyReeves.com Want To Work With Me? Visit http://www.JeremyReeves.com or email me at Jeremy@JeremyReeves.com Enjoy!

In this episode, we talk with Jan Roos, who owns a lead generation company for attorneys. In the episode we talk about the power of specialization and why focusing on narrowing down EXACTLY what you help clients/customers with is so powerful in business. Enjoy!   Resources Mentioned Adwords Google Analytics Google display network Expertengines.co Expertengines.co/Jeremy Want To Work With Me? Visit http://www.JeremyReeves.com or email me at Jeremy@JeremyReeves.com Enjoy! Transcript: Jeremy Reeves: Hey everybody. Welcome back to the another episode of the sales funnel mastery podcast. This is your host, Jeremy Reeves and on the line today, I have Jan Roos I want to make sure I got that right. So Jan Roos, basically, what he does, I think this is going to be a cool interview because he specializes essentially lead generation for small and medium law firms and -- now I know you know, anybody who is not you know, does not own a law firm, I do not want you to delete this because what I am going to do is -- he is going to kind of walk us through exactly how he gets guaranteed results for his clients and I am going to try to make it applicable to anybody listening to this whether you are a law firm or whether you own some kind of brick-and-mortar business or you are online. We are going to try and kind of take his general principles of what he does and how he is able to get such good results for his clients and you know, kind of show you how to do the same thing. So it is going to be cool interview. So yeah, how are you buddy? Jan Roos: Good Jeremy. How are you doing? Jeremy Reeves: I am good. I am good. I am actually kind of excited because we -- I have been trying to -- it is now July 8 as of when we are recording this and I still have not been swimming the entire year which is awful. We do not have a pool, the kind of where the yard is a little bit funky and so we cannot put a pool in, but my in laws, you know, my father and mother in law, they just put in a brand new in ground pool and it is like a (inaudible 1:34.5). Jan Roos: So nice. I love those. Jeremy Reeves: Yeah, I know. And we are teaching our kids to swim this year and so that is actually, once we get off the call I have been trying to cram an entire days worth of work into like 4 hours. So I did not quite make that happen. I am actually going to get up tomorrow morning and finish it, but I am you know, we are doing that. We are getting pizza and you know, all that kind of stuff and their cousin, my boys are 3 and 4. Actually, the 4-year-old is going to be 5 in actually, a week today. But their little cousin, he is also 3. He is coming in through the day, so it is going to be kind of a nice little family day. So I am so excited. Jan Roos: That is awesome. I will try to speak it like an auctioneer pace so we can just get that (inaudible 2:19.0). Jeremy Reeves: Buy yeah, anyway, so I kind of went on a little rampant. Tell everybody you know, about what you do and who you helped and that kind of thing and then we will get into the you know, kind of the meat and potatoes of exactly how you are getting people see good results. Jan Roos: Alright, great. So yeah, (inaudible 2:35.2) the company that I run, Expert Engines is like you said, a lead generation service. We focus on law firms and really our claim to fame is being able to deliver results in 72 hours or less. We basically focused on one very specific kind of funnel which I am sure going to go into later, but basically how we arrived there was kind of more of a process. Do you want me to go in the story now? Jeremy Reeves: Yeah, go ahead. Jan Roos: Alright, cool. So yeah, I started out personally doing a little bit of agency work. Did a little bit of staff in house and then finally ended up winning a business plan competition and a grant to go with it which allowed me to start my first business Vitality Sciences and it was actually kind of a really, really scary situation because I had partner, he was on the supply side, it was health and nutritional supplements company, so I was basically you know, he brought all the product to the table, to the warehouse, and there was a 100% (inaudible 3:27.0) to move it out of there. So you know, this encompass you know, the full spectrum sales marketing. I was doing cold calls, cold outreach, every single kind of inbound flavor that you could think off, content marketing, SEO, blah, blah, blah. So I really sort of had to leverage some of the skills that I developed doing the staff at the agencies, the in house staff to really do it for myself. So over time you know, as you kind of start of always in a position as an entrepreneur where you have more time than money and then once you finally ended up getting the money is when we were able to invest in the paid traffic and then you know, that was just like addicted to me because it is like, you could have the results immediately, it is like you know, you do not have to worry about your content or social medial ramping up. Just go the traffic store and you buy it and then if you can close the loop with you know, good conversion rate principles, copywriting stuff like that, then you know, you are putting in a dollar and you are taking out 2 or 3. So after that, a transition out in that business and that is when I really started Expert Engines because it was kind of funny, the whole consulting thing sort of found me. I sort of had -- somebody approached me for some service contracts and the thing is I was used to being in an inventory business at that time. So I was like, oh okay, well you know, I have this (inaudible 4:36.4) and it is like, I do not have to save this for the next slot of inventory you know, you can just you know, hire people with this, I can do anything with this. So that was also super exciting. And then over time, yeah, we finally (inaudible 4:47.5) it was kind of more of a broader you know, doing the whole general thing that I was doing but then we kind of identified it was way easier. We were getting fantastic results of the paid traffic. That was kind of the strength of mine personally, but it also jelled really well with what the client’s like and it was -- and it pretty (inaudible 5:05.5) contrast us to most of the staff that a lot of agencies especially here in New York where I live, we are doing so. That is kind of how we get started and then you know, you got a client, you got another client, and you start getting the results, portfolio and that takes us to where we are today. Jeremy Reeves: Nice. That is awesome. And you know, and as I was kind of telling you before we started the call, the 2 kind of main things that I really want to pull out of your story and what you are doing is number 1 you know, I am going to have you walk us through exactly what you are doing for your clients so I can then make it applicable for anybody listening you know, kind of pull off the big insights from that and then the other part of it is I want to talk about the kind of the power of specializing you know, because you know, you chose the route of doing it for one -- you know, basically one main thing for 1 specific market and I want to kind of talk about that and why it is so important to you know, to do that versus just like, hey, you know, we are lead generation company for you know, businesses. You do it just for law firm. So I want to talk about that too. But the first thing is let us kind of dig in to your -- let us dig in to your funnel and walk us through you know, exactly what you do for clients and even if you want to get in to how you exactly attract leads you know, into your business that might even help too, but then more importantly you know, what you are doing for your clients. I am assuming it is probably something either using Adwords or Facebook or something like that to get them you know, the leads, but you know, walk us through everything from you know, the ad like what the ad says and then landing page, what is the landing page say you know, basically essentially what is the funnel look like and what are some of the you know, kind of you know, secret ingredients I guess that you are using to get these lawyers such good results. Jan Roos: Got you. So actually the funnel itself is you know, it is not easy, but it is simple. So we are starting out you know, 80% of our traffic probably comes from Adwords and that is basically -- the reason that we do that is especially in the legal niche, you have people that -- you are already a known quantity, if some of these getting to the point where they are typing in bankruptcy lawyer in New York city, they have already made a decision to hire somebody. So they are very late in the customer awareness you know as per (inaudible 7:26.4) Eugene Schwartz sort of thing. So then basically we take into landing page you know, we do all our landing pages and unbounce for writing all of our copy in house. I actually still do a lot of the copy myself and we have just got a real knack at taking the benefits of an individual law practice you know, to a copywriter, it is pretty block and tackle stuff, but it is actually really surprising how few law firms are doing this correctly. Jeremy Reeves: Oh yeah, it is not surprising to me. Jan Roos: Oh yes, seriously. And then the whole process is kind of wrapped around you know, we have a lot of analytics in place. Jan Roos: For the majority of businesses that we work with it is call based. So we have to have systems in place for tracking that and you know, it is a little bit complicated mambo jambo, but at the end of the day, you basically have the ability to track the conversion that pushes back towards Google Analytics through Google Adwords. So you really get the full picture of what to optimize for. Again, this is the kind of stuff that is pretty much table stakes for your average you know, sophisticated internet marketer or a startup or something like that, but again, when we are dealing with local businesses like this, a lot of times they do not have it setup. The thing that separates us -- so the thing is, I really do not like to call what we do Adwords because a lot of the people that do Adwords whether it is an agency or freelanced, they are optimizing around the wrong metrics. So until you have this kind of full stack conversion picture, people will do ridiculous things like you know, you can just basically optimize stuff around click through rates which you know, is really good sometimes, but generally, there could be a correlation where the people are clicking more are turning into more clients, but a lot of the times it is not the case and if that is not the case then you know, you are basically buying a bunch clicks for people who are not buying. To take that a step further, we kind of do a manual outreach with our clients because we know the different kinds of cases that are coming in, so you know, you could have a completely different kind of person that is typing for example, work injury lawyer versus somebody who is a construction accident lawyer. Even though they seemed very similar, a lot of the times it represents a completely different kind of person. So in the end, basically this whole process you know, you have these different levers of the ads various copy, stuff in the landing pages, another thing we do kind of you know, it is sort of a little catch bucket if something does not get through is we do remarketing on Facebook and Google display network, but this you know, optimizing across the whole funnel instead of just optimizing for a landing page or optimizing for the ads is kind of how we end up driving this cost really down and make sure our clients are getting the right stuff to because at the end of the day -- I came from a small business world, I have a lot of you know, empathy for these clients, for the most part when we are talking about you know, small or medium law firm this ad budget is you know that is money that they could be putting their next vacation or their retirement account or you know kid’s college funds. So we want to make sure that we are getting them you know, cash-back in their checking account as soon as possible. Jeremy Reeves: Nice. Sounds good. One thing you hit on that I want to kind of dive into a little bit is you know, the awareness of the market and you are going after -- it is essentially looking at you know, a lot of people when they say cold and warm traffic and that kind of thing they are talking about you know, like a house list is warm and you know, doing things like Adwords and Facebook is “hold,” but there is kind of a second level to that that most people do not think about it and you hit on it before when you were saying, people are different stages of the buying cycle you know. So the people that you are smartly going after are at the very end stage. They know, they are basically almost ready to buy you know what I mean. They are kind of just making their choice as to who to go with rather than you know, they are not looking up why they should hire a lawyer or you know, things like that, it is like okay, I know I need one, now who do I go with and the sale is so much easier you know, going to people where they are like, alright, you know, I need a lawyer like now, you know. A lawyer is one of those things it is kind of like a plumber you know, you do not really call a plumber and be like, oh, I am going to need you in a month you know, like when you are calling a plumber, it is like, look dude, I need you like in the next 3 seconds you know, because there is water shooting all over my bathroom you know, and that is you know, that is why they make so much. You know, I think that is a big, I think that is a big kind of insight because a lot of people are trying to educate their audiences too much and you should have different funnels for that like, I do not know if you have separate funnels for that, but you know, there is kind of like if you think about it like a spider web or like a you know, like a jawbreaker something you know, the core of it is the people, they are the people that are just ready to buy. They just have to make the decision of who they are going to do business with and that is who you are going after. That is like the easiest to get and then after you really nail that down, then you expand out to people who are you know, maybe they need you in the future or you have to educate them of why they need you and things like that. But a lot of people start you know, you are starting in the core, the easiest you know, cherry pick if you will and kind of moving out, whereas a lot of people making mistake of, alright well let us just get everybody and we are just kind of educate them for months you know, on why they should you know, why they need us and such a (inaudible 5:49.0) you know. What are your thoughts on? Is that something that you kind of just did or did you -- was that more of like a strategy like or you actually knew you were doing that. Jan Roos: That was extremely deliberate. So to go a little bit back into the story about what I was doing before I started this company. We ended up pursuing 2 completely different markets with 2 completely different products (inaudible 6:10.2) company I was running. So one was targeted more towards survival backpacking and the other one was target towards cross-fit and triathlon. So when we were taking different you know, throwing a bunch of spaghetti at the wall and seeing what sticks. So they were completely different levels of awareness for the market. So our survival product was completely new, which means that we, it was on us if we are ever going to sell this thing to educate people why this is something that is important, why it is something they should buy. On the other hand, when we were talking about the fitness market you know, amino acid products which we sold were more or less unknown quantity, so that ended up being a completely different. So we could not really educate that much because you know, it was kind of like you know, one of those things okay, like we have these benefits, but is it really that different. So that is a thing like we saw stuff you know, we had a way easier time securing PR, getting content out there, getting people to share stuff for the survival product, that was almost impossible for the fitness one just because there are so many ones like that, but you know, the fitness one worked well. When we were able to capture people who were looking for a deal right then and there, but yeah. I mean basically, that was you know and I read the book, Breakthrough Advertising by Eugene Schwartz, a few years after that and it was like a complete revelation because I kind of then developing this theory about hey you know, like the whole education process is something that you have to match the product in the market, the customers that you are going after. And then you know, he had this, Eugene Schwartz has this beautiful model for all that and it is just, it was really just one of those Aha moments where everything fit into place. But yeah, the way that I kind of explained it to my clients is -- I used a football analogy. So the clients that worked best with Adwords in my opinion, like you know, you are basically at you know, 3rd and goal with you know, 5 yards to go. But that is not every client you know, like sometimes in my business personally is something it has to start a lot farther out you know, I cannot just say you know, lead generation because first of all that means a lot of different things to a lot of different people. I cannot say Adwords. So a lot of the times it is actually something that starts a lot farther out. And then basically you know, there are a lot of different -- so there are some types of lawyers that we do not work with, so if you take you know, personal injury lawyer, it is the ultimate I mean literal, bleeding or neck problem you know, you get hit by a car, you get whatever, slip and fall and then you need a lawyer like today because you are in the hospital. You take something like a business lawyer, a lot of the times this is something that people are considering deliberately over a long period of time. For that kind of stuff, I would have more of an education so and for that I actually would not recommend Adwords you know. The traffic is just too expensive to do anything that is not going to turn into a lead right then and there you know. For that kind of stuff, I would say, Hey look, go to SEO route, you know, hit some content marketing you know, maybe actually do social media, it is worth building a brand out there so you can be (inaudible 9:10.4) and when it comes time for that person to actually make a decision, you have already been on their mind for a long time. But again, it is like you know, it is so misguided like you see the classic attorney advertising, is the person injury guy buying you know the billboards and the radio jingle and stuff like literally you know, that is just all noise to people. No one cares about personal injury until they get injured. So yeah, that is the thing. It is highly dependent on the kind of business that you are in. That is why we select this sort of businesses that work with it. Jeremy Reeves: Yeah, yeah, I love that. You know, anybody listening, think about your audience, because every business you have you know, I mean it is a lot more clear cut like a personal injury you know, that is a lot more clear cut, but in most business you have both sides. You have people that are ready to buy it right now and then you also are going to have people that need to be educated first and they should have different funnels you know. That is when you start getting into segmentation and things like that. You kind of have to -- and you can do this through surveys. You can do it through keywords or typing. You can do through a whole bunch of different means or even the you know, you can come out with like an opt in you know, whether it is a PDF or video whatever and depending on the topic of that opt in, you are going to attract different people. So you know, one of them might be, I do not know, I am trying to come up with something off top of my head in like health, it is like you know, something very you know, lower level like you know, 7 Food You Should Never Eat or something like that, maybe that is like people that need to be educated you know, the earlier on in the funnel versus something like I do not know, a personal trainer or something and it is like you know, you can schedule consultation now. Those people are kind of -- they have already been educated they know they need a personal trainer and they are kind of ready to go now and then you just have to show them why you are the best choice you know. You do not have to tell them about why they need a personal trainer because they already know that. You are on to the next level where it is like, okay, now that you know that you need to lose weight. You know that you need a personal trainer, now you have to figure out you know, who, and I am that person you know. So your funnel is based around that versus you know, the first two things that I mentioned. So that is a huge, huge insight and it is something that very few people really think about deeply, you know what I mean when they are planning these things out. Jan Roos: Let me just point out one more thing too is that the other thing is that you know having a message mismatch is one of the worst things you can do for your marketing. I mean going back to the football analogy. Like if you got 1 yard to go you know, you can hit a full back dive and you are going to get that yard you know, that is all you are going to get. If you do a full back dive off the punt return, you are just wasting a play you know. So that is the thing too because it is like you know, what we do really well is -- am I the best copywriter in the world not by a damn site. Are we extremely good at differentiating other local competitors? Yeah. We are extremely good at that. So that is the kind of where we find our sweet spot. Jeremy Reeves: Yeah, nice, I love it. So you know, the funnels that you are building for people, what is that actually look like you know, so like when you are you know, like (inaudible 12:22.4) you just walk us through the funnel. Is there you know, are you getting them on a list or you kind of just calling them you know. What is it actually look like from, okay you know, we are in front of this person now and then getting them to actually sign up with the client. Jan Roos: Got you. So basically when we are going for an ads, we have some stuff that -- like I said, you know, basic copywriting stuff that stands out in the market just because a lot of people are not sophisticated. So you know, if we have somebody you know, let us say they have more experience, let us say they have -- I will give you an example. Construction action lawyer, he holds the largest settlement in the history of Kings County, which is in Brooklyn. So you know, $23M settlements. You are an X million dollar case, right. So that is the ad they click to the landing page and basically there are 2 ways that they can get in touch with the client which are both completely immediate. So it is either a form with the explicit intent to get contacted by the attorney. So they will have name, email, you know, described how we can help you in your situation and there is also the number which is dynamically inserted to a number of different traffic numbers which allows us to track it back through the ad and the keyword that was type. So basically, you know, that is the thing you know, we are hard core on the whole attention ratio thing. So you know, there is only 2 things you can do when you reach the page. It is either you know, fill out the form or call the number. That is basically the whole deal as far as that. We do not really do too much you know, lead nurturing. We do not have any sequences set up. The next thing is they are going to get a call from attorney. Jeremy Reeves: Okay, got you, got you. And then they kind of take it over from there. Jan Roos: Yeah. Jeremy Reeves: Okay, nice. Okay, so let us kind of move on to you know essentially why you know, you specialize and kind of you know, the power of specializing in doing what you do because you know, as everybody can tell like there is really not that much going on with the actual funnel you know. It is a very, very, very simple funnel, but that is why it is so powerful I think, you know what I mean. A lot of people when they think of funnels it is like, oh we need you know, 13 sequences this way. We have to segment them 4 different ways. We have to you know, do all this and this and this and this. A lot of times not in every case, but a lot of times you have to bring it back to okay, what is like the essential stuff that we need you know what I mean. What can we really have to know that just absolutely nails it. I just send out 2 proposals today. Actually, this morning before we got into call and both of them were very you know, they call and then they were like, oh I want you know, really complex like crazy funnel and I am like, look, you do not need that you know. I would love for you to send me $20,000 now you know, but you do not need that yet. Let us first do kind of a phase 1 you know, for like half the price and let us nail that you know, nail the targeting, nail the message you know, the hook that we are getting the people and then once that happens, then we can branch out you know, then we can add in segmentation, then we can add in all this fancy and crazy stuff that will take it to the next level you know, but first, we have to get to A level first. We have to get actual sales first and then worry about the next level you know. So with yours you know, you are really focusing on what audience and doing like one specific thing for that. So talk to us about you know why you chose to do that versus you know, versus something like you know, like why did you chose lawyers? Was it just you know, was it just like you know, pick of a hat you know, random thing or was it for very specific reason and the same thing goes for you know, why you chose to set up the funnel in such like kind of simplistic way you know, so talk to us a little about that. Jan Roos: Got you, yes. I mean the thing is I wish I could say you know, I sat down 1 day and me and my whole plan is like, you know what, in 1 year I am going to have like a huge portfolio of lawyers is going to be great, but no in reality, it was kind of a situation where I knew that they were good from other you know, mentors of mine that said, hey look, lawyers are pretty good clients and the thing is that you know, from a fundamentals perspective, they are really good fit for Adwords because they have a very high cost per ticket which means they can justify a decent ad spent. Most of the people are in that you know, last step ready to hire something so you can have the immediate results and I mean basically between those -- and it is something that is very tangible. It is something that translates well into keywords. With those 3 things it is like a really, really great fit and yeah. Today, we probably have you know, a couple of legacy clients that are not lawyers and you know, every once in a while we will take something that is not a lawyer, but it has got to satisfy all those conditions. And that is the thing like you know, one of the recent success stories that we had was a private investigator. So you think about it, so this guy is making a couple grand every single time he has one of these you know, somebody hires him for whatever 24 to 36 hours and you know when you want a private investigator it is something that you know, private investigator New Jersey is something that is very, very fungible and yeah, you know, he has got people that have a need and so there is somebody that is generally ready to hire. So with all those things in place, that is kind of how I was able to settle on that, and then also so the thing about like the developing of the niche it is like I am trying to think -- Jeremy do you like, are you a mixed martial arts fan by any chance? Jeremy Reeves: I have never done it, but I like it. Jan Roos: Yeah, so we got UFC coming out tomorrow which is why it flash in my mind, so if you think about it, basically, you know, you have all these different things that you could possibly do in the world of market and we can compare to a fight right. So you know, you could be doing striking, you could be grappling, you could be doing you know, wrestling, all these different things. Generally, if you think about it like you know, most of the people that are -- if you take someone who is considered a good boxer in the UFC and you put them up against somebody who is a boxer in a boxing organization, you know, 10/10 times, the boxer is going to just absolutely crush them because that is all they do. Every single time, when somebody is you know, when the MMA fighter is training wrestling, the boxer is boxing. When the MMA fighter is training jiu-jitsu, the boxer is boxing. So you kind of just have this lead that just ends up getting compounded over time and then you get deeper and deeper and the thing is that when, especially what comes with that is the case studies and all these different results that you are start getting. So you know, 100% of the time we are working on this specific kind of funnel. So look, even if somebody could say that they are better today and they are full service agency you know, it would not be the case a year from now. So it is a lead and it is getting bigger every single day and we are learning things within this specific style that no one else knows about. We are developing all kinds of different tricks and that is kind of how you know, that is the benefit of working really deeply without a niche. Another thing that I think is really important is that when you have to define niche, you sort of occupy somebody’s -- like it is like a space that you occupy in someone’s mind. So you know, this is -- we did a lot of networking to get the business off the ground here in New York city. The thing is you know, there is a million agencies, so if you know, I go out and I meet somebody in the party and they are so yeah like you know, we are digital marketing agency, we are full service, we do this, we do that blah, blah. I am not really going to think of that person if I ran into somebody who says they have a marketing challenge you know, somebody says, oh yeah, like you know, I have, oh God, I really need some SEO. So you know, I know people that focus exclusively on SEO and that person occupies a space in my mind, it is very easy to say, oh, boom, click you know, (inaudible 20:07.2) we got to get you in touch with, and similarly, you know, when people hear what we do as a company, they encounter lawyer who says, oh man, you know ,it’s tough you know, I am just getting my practice started. I just do not know how I am going this phone to ring, oh no kidding, I just spoke to a company that does exactly that. So the niche thing also helps in that way and you know, this could be social media, this could be just general PR stuff, it is like when you occupy a niche, it is credibility too. It is a foot-in-the-door, because it is like you know, sometimes I have been talking to different people, legal organization and stuff. I have a (inaudible 20:40.7) your time getting into that kind of situation because you know, we have already stated that we are committed to helping lawyers out. And then yeah, just a lot of other things to, I mean when you are dealing with the kind of client, it is like you start to be really empathetic to their problems because you understand like all the things that it means to be a small or medium law practice you know, they chase a different set of challenges and it is again, it is like the same thing, you would not quite be learning as fast if you were working on legal and e-commerce and -- so that is the sort of that stuff. It is kind of funny too because the thing is that like you know, we have gone to the point of -- I have made some mishires of people that were extremely qualified in Google Adwords like you know, we made a hire last year that we had to cut after a month or two, but he basically was you know, a top 1% Adwords person, him and his wife got invited to the Google campus for like celebration-type thing and the guy honestly you know, he was not outperforming people that we trained ourselves in house from complete scratch. And we thought that was the right thing to do, but like I said, the specialization starts taking a life of its own. Jeremy Reeves: Yeah, I love that you know. A lot of people they are like, oh -- let us just say the fitness industry, because that is you know, there are a lot of different ways that you can go with that. Essentially, what I am saying is that there are a lot of different levels that you can take this to. So I am working with the guy now, Carl, and I know he listens, so hi Carl, I know he listened to podcast. He is not only is in the fitness industry, not only does he help people lose weight like 85 billion other people do. His specialty is essentially reinvigorating your liver to help you lose weight because he found out and there is a lot of research that kind of backs all this up. He discovered that your liver is kind of like the you know, the machine that like, if it is slow, everything else is slow, but like once you clean out your liver, you know, it is the one thing that kind of makes everything else move you know what I mean. It is that center cog. So if you are you know, a lot of weight issues come back to a slow liver like a clogged liver you know, from all you know, (inaudible 23:02.6) you breath and drink every day. So his specialty is not only in helping people lose weight, but doing it -- his mechanism for doing that is his specialty. So you know, using your liver to do that and of course he talks about other things you know, but that is like everything revolves around that core issue you know, and there is other people that do it. I follow another health guy that his whole thing with losing weight and you know just being in shape is about not obsessing over it you know, and about kind of living in the moment and listening to your body you know, that is like his kind of specialty you know. So there are a lot of different ways that you can specialize. Yours is a simple one, you know, you are specializing in certain industry, but if that industry is overcrowded like weight loss for example, you can then you know, not only are you specializing in a certain industry, but you are specializing in a certain mechanism in that industry to get that end result you know. So I want everybody to think about that and think about what (inaudible 24:06.3) was just talking about the power of you know, having a specialty and then you know if you think that you know, kind of yours is good enough you know, see if you can take it another level deep you know, is there is something -- even if you specialize in certain industry or certain you know, result or way of doing it or whatever, look and see if there is a certain like mechanism for actually doing that which can help you specialize even further you know what I mean. Even like Ryan Laveck with you know, doing sales funnels you know, his whole -- his mechanism for building sales funnel is a survey you know what I mean. So there are a lot of different ways of looking that you know. So with that said you know, I think we cover a lot. I even kind of get refreshed on a couple things that I have forgotten about over the years you know, so it was super helpful I think everybody is going to get a ton out of this interview. So before we head off you know, tell everybody -- well first of all, is there anything that I did not ask that you know you would get off the call and say, shit, you know, I wish Jeremy asked me that because it can help everybody you know, is there any kind of one big key insight that everybody should take away? Jan Roos: Okay, I got something that was kind of coming up really. So you know, another thing is that you know, when we were talking about simple funnels and this is kind of like saying with your proposal. One of the things that is really important especially for the people out there that are doing marketing and consulting of any type really is that sometimes a client will want something extremely complex, but it is your job as the consultant, to have the discipline to say, look you know, we have something that is more simple that can sometimes be more effective than something complex and the thing is that it is very tough to make that decision for yourself especially when you are starting out. So you can actually be doing a lot of benefits to a client by doing that. So I think we are definitely in line on that, but that is the thing. It is not always -- it is not always the most fancy stuff that works. Jeremy Reeves: Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And I just had a -- I had another client and I do that all the time. I have so many people who are like, oh my God, you actually just told me to give you less money you know, but it is refreshing you know, for clients you know. I actually just -- I just did a podcast, I forgot if it is live or not, in fact, I think it is actually going live today as we recording this, but you know, I was talking about how -- I actually had a client that they were on (inaudible 26:33.3) for $2000 a month and just the way that things changed it was not in their best interest to keep paying that you know, actually kind of you know, reanalyzing our working range you know, and I am the one that brought it up. It was not them that brought it up. It was me that brought it up and you know, it just comes back to you know, putting your clients first you know what I mean. It seems it hard to do, I mean it really is like when you are saying, when somebody is paying you money and you are like, look pay me less you know like, it is not an easy thing to do you know what I mean, but you have to, you know what I mean. You have to be able to do that if you are going to be in this long term you know what I mean, because that is what create like you know even the you know, I have several clients that I have done that for and we got the result and they were like, oh my God, this is the best thing ever. I am telling everybody I know about you because you know, I never would ever expected for somebody to actually you know, tell me to pay them less money you know and not only that you do that, but now we are actually getting you know really good results from and we spent half of what we thought we are going to you know what I mean and it is just you know, it is just better you know, plus you just (inaudible 27:44.6) it is so much better for your peace of mind as well you know and I am huge on that you know, do not build a business just for money like do it you know for your own happiness as well you know what I mean. Yes, I think that is you know, I think that is a big point and that does not mean that you know, you drop all of your fees, no not at all. When it makes sense you take them to the highest you know, the highest package or whatever that you have, but whatever makes sense is what you have to give them whether that is $5,000 package or $50,000 package you know. For one example like if someone came to me and they were you know, a $10M company, I am not going to say, oh, you know, we are just going to start super small for you know, like a couple of grand or whatever, unless they were like, hey, let us do like a test or whatever, then that is fine and I do that all the time you know, that is kind of normal, but you know, if they were like, look, you know we have this funnel and we want to take it to the next level and blah, blah you know, we want to add segmentation, we have to redo the sales letter all that kind of thing then they are in their best interest would be doing that you know. It would not be doing small little thing you know what I mean. So it really just comes down to looking at your clients or your customers if you do not have clients even if you are selling a product. Looking at your business in a way that is you know, taking their interest first you know, your mind every decision you make should always be wrapped around to your you know, what is best for your customer or your client because yeah, you are going to lose money in the short term, that is a given, but you make it off in a long term, you know what I mean. Not only in terms of monetary, but also you know, like I said, like just in your own peace of mind you know. So yeah, I love that, I fully agree on that. Yes, so before we kick it off here, tell everybody you know, where they can find out about you and you know how they can get in touch. Jan Roos: Okay, got you. So our website is over at Expertengines.co it is very legal focused, do you imagine from the (inaudible 29:47.2) conversation, but yeah, if anyone ever wants to take a look and see whether Adwords, lead gen and the style that we do is something that is a good fit honestly probably not even for hiring us just for your own knowledge, we are going to set up a little worksheet over at Expertengines.co/jeremy, so you can just send your email and we will send you the PDF for that. Jeremy Reeves: Sounds good. Yeah, because I mean honestly, it is not you know, all traffic sources are not right for the you know, for everybody. I just talked to somebody yesterday, who you know, they have an awesome product and all that and -- but Adwords just would not be their right fit for them. I think one of my kids is coming in the room now let us see. Jan Roos: I actually forgot a key part of my story. One of the reasons that I was so focused on Adwords is that we actually got completely (inaudible 30:42.8) by an Adwords consultant who did not have the integrity to say that the kind of product we were selling was not a good fit for Adwords, so that was yeah, man, I should said that way early, anyway. Jeremy Reeves: No, I mean it is super important you know. Yes everybody go to Expertengines.co or if you want to get the little worksheet that he put together Expertengines.co/jeremy and before we hop off here, I am going to have Logan. Logan is sitting on my lap, he is my 3-year-old. So Logan, can you say Hi. Say hi to everybody. Go ahead. No okay, alright, never mind. I thought we are going to have a little special guest here, but apparently not. Jan Roos: Well, thanks for everything Jeremy. It is awesome and I hope you guys can get some good (inaudible 31:32.2) today. Jeremy Reeves: Yeah right, I do not know, I probably get sunburned because I have not been out in the sun all summer. At least my chest and stomach and back you know, I have been wearing shorts (inaudible 31:43.0) something like that, but yeah, anyway, everybody go to Expertengines.co or Expertengines.co/jeremy to get the worksheet and see if Adwords is right for you and yeah, I hope you have a good day and thanks again for coming on, it was awesome. Jan Roos: My pleasure Jeremy. Thanks again. Jeremy Reeves: Alright, I will talk to you soon.

In this episode I walk you through the 5 stages of market sophistication. This is a copywriting principle and persuasion technique that VERY few people know about, and even fewer talk about. However it's one of the most important factors in the failure or success of a campaign, and a must-know for every marketer on Earth! Resources Mentioned http://www.jeremyreeves.com/ Want To Work With Me? Visit http://www.JeremyReeves.com or email me at Jeremy@JeremyReeves.com Enjoy! Transcript: Hey what is going everybody, Jeremy Reeves here with another episode of the sales funnel mastery podcast. Today, we are going to talk about something that very few people talk about and fewer people, actually no, I said that wrong, that very few people know about and even fewer people talk about right, and that is the 5 Stages Of Market Sophistication Market Awareness right. So this is -- this is actually from a book called breakthrough advertising by Eugene Schwartz right. It is kind of a classic copywriting book and it is something that -- is kind of the you know the backbone of everything that really works you know. When things work it is because you correctly identified where your market was at in their level of sophistication for whatever it is that you are selling and when things flopped it is because you did not quite hit the mark right. I will kind of you know, walk you through everything and you can think about where your market is, okay. So you know, back when Eugene Schwartz was you know, was alive and you know basically one of the best copywriters that ever lived. Essentially, you know, he introduced this concept known as market sophistication and it is essentially, it explains why certain types of approaches work for different products in different markets, right. As you know, different things are going to work for different products in different markets you know. I have written copy for oh my God, countless numbers of people and it is funny because will approach things differently even though it is going to a similar audience or a similar product, right. So I am in the middle of writing a promotion right now for Agora, right, which is the biggest -- I am pretty sure it is the biggest. I think they are around $300M, the biggest alternative health newsletter in the world right now right. So this is you know, basically, it is one of those companies that if you are copywriting you kind of get the chance to work (inaudible 2:34.0) you are like considered like the you know elite of elite you know kind of thing. So it is kind of cool you know going through the process of that and you know, it is funny because the process that we are (inaudible 2:47.0) and the hook -- we just finalized the hook actually this morning which is totally, totally bad ass. I am really excited right about it. It is funny because the whole process and the way that we are approaching this is actually different than I have done in a lot of other alternative health markets you know and even though, it is a very, very, very similar audience right and that is because of the levels of market sophistication, where they are advertising that kind of thing. They kind of (inaudible 3:16.1) marketing too and just what they found that works the best for them you know. There is a lot of different factors that come into play, so you cannot just -- that is why you know, templates are awesome you know. I have copy templates, they are one of my best selling products, but what I always tell people is you cannot just take the template and just reuse it exactly as it is. I mean you have to -- it is good for starting point like if you are not a good copywriter, if you do not know how to write copy or whatever. They are very, very, very, very good starting point, but you know, once you get pass the starting point you kind of have to take them and customize them you know to your audience you know. It is because of this right. So let me get into all these and so there are 5 levels of this. The first one is essentially you know, the interaction, right. So in this stage, the product or service, I am just going to say product for all these, but it could be service too. In this stage, the product is brand new. So think of the Ipod when it was first launched, right. It was totally in a class of its own, nothing else is like it on the market right. So in this stage you do not need to write a 20-page sales letter about every little tiny details that is going into the product. Your story here, the approach you are taking is the story right, about the innovation, not the details. You are convincing people that this is the newest and greatest thing because of how new and you know “cool” it is, right. So let me give you an example. When Steve Jobs came out with the Ipod, right, the headline that was used to sell the Ipod, it was not anything you know, insane. It was not I think grand or spectacular or anything like that. It simply said something along the lines of puts 1000 songs in your pocket, right. That is it. Puts 1000 songs in your pocket. That is very, very, very simple, but you know, no lengthy discussion was needed. The product was really innovative, it was the first of its kind and most people never would have thought it was even possible and it completely, as you know, it completely revolutionized the entire way that we listen to music, right. So that is all that was needed. What a lot of people do not understand about copy ready is that you have to write only what is needed and nothing else right. That is why people are always like, oh, you know -- I have actually had a lot of people come to me and they are like, hey, you know, I need long firm sales letter, I am like, hey, no you do not you know, because we can write this in a way that it does not take that long to make it you know, it is so new that the concept is so clear and so focused and there is not a lot of competition. All you have to do is just tell people it is there right, and make it a new thing. Put a story around it and sell it right. So that is level 1, the introduction. That is if you are basically coming out with something that is never before seen. There is a lot of this going on right now, the technologies phase and you know, all you have to do is just tell people what are those thing, that is it you know, you do not have to go into this big huge complex thing. Level 2, the competition craze, right. So as people begin to know more and more about your product and similar products come on in the market, you can think of this you know, think of Garcinia Cambogia right or really any weight loss supplement. When it was first brought to light which I think it was on Dr. Oz show, basically, everybody you know, it came out and it was just new thing you know, level 1 introduction. Oh my God, Garcinia Cambogia, it is going to help you lose weight, blah, blah, blah, blah, okay. And then it went onto the Dr. Oz show and it got huge, right, it blew up everybody (7:07.1) started selling it and you know, it is this new hot you know, amazing new supplement, it is going to help you finally melt off the ugly fat you know, blah, blah, blah. So when this first started happening, everybody was selling this and everything was very, very, very hyphy right. That is kind of like when you see things that are super, super, super hyphy that is kind of the level 2 thing right, because everybody has you know, there is a lot of competitors and they are all trying to outbid each other essentially with the results that you know, that is going to get people. So you might have seen a headline such as you know, this was not you know, the actual headline, but it could have been something like this simple pill melts off 10 pounds in 7 days or less, guaranteed right. That is kind of like a level 2 headline is you are talking about the results and how amazing they are. Another one might be a new 372 horsepower engine makes new Corvette the best bang for your buck, right. So it is like a new thing very hyphy, very bold, all about the results that you are going to get in a very dramatic kind of fashion right. The problem with this stage is that they only last for a little bit because then everybody starts saying the same thing right. Everybody starts saying, oh, it is going to help you lose 10 pounds, then this new competitor, oh, it is going to help you lose 12 pounds, oh now you can lose 12 pounds in 3 days you know. So it gets to the point where it becomes unbelievable right, and that is when it starts moving into level 3 and that is the unique mechanism right. Now I want you to pay close attention to this one and the next one because especially this one because this is where most markets are right now is level 3, the unique mechanism. So I want you to kind of pay special close attention to this one. So this is where good copywriting really comes into play. You kind of get away with level 1 and level 2. You kind of get away with you know, kind of shitty copy writing because it is still pretty new and really all you have to do is talk about the results whereas the unique mechanism is you know, this is where you really need to have good copywriting coming in because it is really where the best marketers are going to stand out and where we copycats are going to start to you know, they are going to start to disappear a little bit right. It is also the stage where the best actual products themselves begin to really shine and get a lot of momentum behind them because it is where people start talking about it a lot more. So in this stage, as you may have guess, you begin to talk about the unique mechanism which makes your product or service get such incredible results. So instead of, well I give you an example in a minute right, but so instead of just saying what they get, you are going to actually tell them how it does it, how it gets those results right. You are not quite shouting from the rooftop quite as much. You are going to bring down the hype a little bit in this one, but what you are doing is focusing on the finer details of exactly how it works, how it get those results right. So you are moving into the you know, into the phase of using more proof and research to back up your claims, but also digging into like the you know, the finer or inner mechanics of your product or service right. So here are the couple of examples right, so simple pill melts out 10 pounds in 7 days and then here is the unique mechanism by neutralizing carbs right, guaranteed and then the other one going back to the automobile one would be something like, new air induction secret adds 50 horsepower in under 10 minutes right, so it adds 50 horsepower in under 10 minutes well how does he do that, the new air induction secret right. For the simple pill, how does it melt off 10 pounds in 7 days because it neutralizes carbs right. It disintegrates carbs. It eats up carbs like pac-man you know. However you kind of want to describe it right. This is where -- this is where a lot of supplements are at this stage. We do tons of work in the alternative health space and this is where most of them are you know, it is kind of hard to find or sell a supplement where you are only talking about the results, right. You have to say why it get those results and talk about the ingredients, okay. So again, you know, this stage it is all about what makes your product unique and again, if you have a service, what makes your service unique you know, it could be how fast you get the result or how easily or why you are able to sell it cheaper because of some new material you discovered you know, something like that. Think of graphene right, that is being used in cell phones more so that is going to be one of the big new kind of things coming out because it is bendable, alright, well this one is bendable, well how is it bendable, with graphene and blah, blah, blah use this much and you know, there is this crazy new glass and you know all that kind of stuff, right. So then, the next level, is the feature frenzy, okay. So this is where you start getting into bigger companies. Again, most companies that you know people listening to this are going to be in that, probably, like 2nd to 3rd level. The 4th level is where you are starting to get into bigger companies you know. Think of like $10M plus or commodity type of products, things like that. So by this stage, there are so many options for people that choices are starting to get harder. Think when you go to the grocery store and you are -- I remember I was just, I was looking at M&Ms right. I went to get an M&Ms for, we are having a party, this is I do not know probably, 2 months ago. We are having a party and we were making these little dessert, it was like a pretzel and then I do not know you do something with it, some kind of, like a sticky type of thing, like a peanut butter or something, you (inaudible 13:17.9) over it and then you put an M&M on top of it, so it is kind of like a chocolate peanut butter pretzel kind of thing, really good by the way. So I went in to get M&Ms and I went into the you know the part of the store where they have all the candy and all that. There were, I forgot how many -- they were like 11 different types of M&Ms. I actually could not find it. It took me like 5 minutes just to find just regular M&Ms and I actually never even ended up getting them. I ended up getting mini M&Ms, but you know, I was just trying to get normal M&Ms and I could not find them you know. Same thing with gold fish or crackers or you know, any kind of cookie you know, there is like 9 billion varieties. So this is what I am talking about in that kind of stage, right. So in this stage, level 4, it is all about features, okay. So you want your product to be faster, cheaper, more convenient, and have kind of a coolness factor that your competitors do not. So think about if you create a comparison chart, you want your product to have several features that your competitors do not, right, that is you know, when you are doing comparison chart, it is kind of like if you imagine at the top, there is 3 or 4 different competitors, you are in the middle on the left, there is all the different features and you want the most you know, check marks in your column, right. That is kind of like what you are looking for here. So here are the couple of examples. Fusion ProShield Chill Razor with Flexball technology, right. So that is when I saw for shaving thing. So Fusion ProShield Chill Razor with Flexball technology, right. It is insane. Here is another one that I got, I was getting waffle maker. I am actually excited. Me and my -- well, I am making -- one of our kind of staple dinners that we have here is chicken waffle so we do you know, Belgian waffles and then we get like a whole roasted chicken and put it in the crock pot all day and then put some gravy in it and put it over the waffles, oh, it is so good, oh my God, I love it. In fact, this is actually fairly healthy for you too in terms of you know, calories like macronutrients and then I like to eat a vegetable or two kind of with it, peas usually. I know it sounds weird, but it actually goes pretty good with it, but yeah, it is actually good. Anyway, so T-fal EZ Clean Nonstick Sandwich and Waffle Maker with Removal Dishwasher Safe Plates, 2-Slice, Silver, right. So that was the headline on Amazon. So you could see you know, T-fal EZ Clean Nonstick Sandwich and Waffle Maker with Removal Dishwasher Safe Plates, 2-Slice, Silver, okay. That is an example of the feature frenzy. They keep piling on these weird features most of which do not even do anything. Same thing like vacuums you know, most of technology anymore. Even the new phones, a lot of phones are in this stage you know, like smart phones you know, it is like, oh my God, you know it has whatever you can dunk in underwater or whatever, that one is actually pretty good, but you know, most of the features on these new phones anymore are totally useless, but it is a new selling point you know, they move the headphone jack or whatever, it is like you know, it is retarded but you know that is kind of the level where we at with smartphones right now. So here is another one. At 60 miles an hour, the loudest noise in the new Rolls-Royce comes from the electric clock, right. So that is kind of the feature and that is actually not even the best example, I could have got a better one for that. That is actually more of level 5 emotional, I think. So you know, but the point is, in this stage, you want like a thousand different features, right. So if your competitors -- if you are in the stage again, probably not but you know, if you have a lot of competitors and you really cannot talk about results anymore and that is kind of getting outplayed then you start moving onto to the features okay. The next level and the final level is the emotional play. So the emotional play. Level 5 is all about emotions, okay. So basically this point, you are selling a brand. You are selling your brand. You are selling an emotional appeal, right, and that is really what branding is. Is you know, your brand stands for something that appeals to people in emotional level, that is what that is. If you think about Coke or if you think about you know, any of these big companies, they are selling emotions, right, and that is why they do not have long form sales pages anymore because they do not need them anymore, they already have the loyalty. All they are doing is just maintaining that brand you know, Coke, McDonalds, Wendy’s you know, whatever it is, KFC. They are promoting a brand. They want -- you want, at this stage, you want your audience to be part of something. You want them to viscerally feel some type of emotion. So think about buying a Ferrari versus a Rolls-Royce or a Bentley you know, they are roughly the same price, right, but think about what each of those brands how it appeals to different people you know. Think of how is going to buy a Ferrari versus something like a Rolls-Royce or a Bentley. You want them for very, very different reasons, okay. The emotional appeal is very different between those 3 brands. Also, think about something like a Harley-Davidson, right. Harley-Davidson, I mean honestly, their bikes are not really the best on the market, they are good bikes, but anybody who has a Harley is a die-hard fan, kind of like Apple, right. Apple computers I mean, honestly, you know, I am a Mac kind of myself, so I feel like I can say this and without you know, pissing too many people off, they are not that much better than PCs right They are really not you know. They maybe a little bit more reliable or whatever, but you know, when you really compare it, I mean, it is like you know, fraction of you know percent better than things you can get and honestly you are over paying for most of the stuff with Apple products. Most of the reason that people are such Apple fans is not because they are better quality, right. It is because of the branding that Apple does because people want to be different you know, they want to be unique and it is actually a little bit ironic anymore because Apple is so popular now that you are really not, you really do not standout when you have Apple products because everybody else does. So their whole branding thing, I think they have to start redoing it a little bit because you know, it is kind of getting a little bit outdated you know, they have been doing it since like the 80s or 90s or whatever it was and that was huge back then like standout from the crown you know, be different all that stuff. It made sense then, but I mean, when everybody is using it, really it does not matter anymore you know, and again, I am saying that as a you know, as an Apple fan. So I am fully suck into their marketing. I want you to just think about all these right. How do you put this into your business even though you know, none of us are going to be you know, doing any promotions based on this level 5 emotional you know, emotional awareness. You can still put it into your brand, right. You can still put it into your marketing by having community and having things that make people feel like they are part of something. I do it in my copy all the time, right. One last example. Think about the American Express Black Card right. So it is an “owner” to get one of these right, even though you have to pay something around $7500 to get it plus $2500 a year, plus you have to spend $250,000 a year on the card. So why would you do that and their interest rate is probably are not anything special. I know there is a lot of perks to it, but I mean, common, it does not, you know, it does not make out for what you are paying for. You have to pay $7500 just to get it for the privilege to have a credit card, and then you have to pay $2500 a year and you have to have a minimum fee right of $250,000 a year. Why, because of the way it makes you feel that you have an American Express Black Card right because you are special, you are unique you know, very few people can get that. I think it is like a half of 1% of people even you know, qualified for or something like that right. It is the same thing as a golf membership, right. There is a golf membership by our house. One of the nicer ones in the area and it is like, it is something like $15,000 to join, right, and then not only do you have to pay them $15,000, but you still have to pay every time you golf, you have to spend I do not know, $1,000 a quarter or something like that at the restaurant, at the country club, right. Why do people do that, right. I have no interest in that. I was actually going to get a social membership. They have a cheaper social membership, I do not play enough golf to even come remotely close to justifying the $15,000. I like to play golf like a couple of times a year, but I was going to get a social membership, but then I realized, I mean we barely even go there anyway, so there is really no point, but you know, why are people join membership so much like golf membership, country club so much, it is not because you know, it is that good of a golf course or whatever, it is because they can tell people that they are a member there. That is why. Same thing with cars. Same thing with giant houses you know. It is the same thing regardless of what you buy. If you are buying something that is way above you know, it is like the high-end of things. Any kind of high-end products or service, you are selling emotions right. I mean, really, you are selling emotions with anything you sell, but you know, especially when it is the high-end of you know, the price range. You are selling emotions and you cannot forget that in your marketing right. So anyway, what do you with this, right. Because there is no point in understanding market sophistication if you do not anything with it, right. So the first thing is you know, number 1, if you are looking for a copywriter, make sure they know this because it is really important and very, very, very few copywriters even know -- they would not even be able to tell you, you know what these various stages are, and if they do not, do not hire them because the first thing that we do when we start a new project with the client is determine what level their market is at and then because what happens is let us say that they are level 2 about you know, the simple pill melts off 10 pounds in 7 days or less, guaranteed right. So let us say that they are there, but you are trying to sell you know, a feature frenzy you know, you are trying to sell them on all the features. That is not going to work because they are not at that level yet, okay. They are at a different level, okay. Same thing with the buyer’s journey you know, I would not go into this. I will do a separate podcast on this, but you know, there is 3 levels of the buyer’s journey. There is problem awareness. There is a research phase and then there is a decision phase, okay. If you are trying to sell them, just think of that one as warm or cold, right. So they are cold or brand new. They need to be educated, right. If you are trying to give them the solution when they still need to be educated, you are not going to sell anything. If you are trying to get them educated when they are ready to buy, did it ever have that happened to you when you are ready to buy something and somebody over sells you and tries to educate you too much, tells you (inaudible 25:53.8) things and then they say something, and it is like, Oh, well, I do not even need that. Did it ever have that happened to you, it happens to me all the time. They are basically you know, like kind of under selling you or you know, false selling you or something like that, but you know, essentially, they do not understand your needs. So you have to first understand -- think about your market which you know, which one, what level are they at, right. What stage are they at and then you have to focus your copy around that stage, okay. Understanding what level that they are at dictates everything that you do. It dictates every strategy that you come up. It dictates how your copy reads, you know. So figure this out first and then if you are doing your own copy, figure it out and then make sure that your marketing message match up to the market sophistication level that your market is at, alright. So that is it for today. Once again, you know, as always, if you are enjoying this episode, make sure that you are sharing it with your friends, colleagues, family you know, whoever you think would like it you know, twit it out, Facebook it you know, whatever you like on social media and make sure you leave us a review. Remember we are giving our Conversion Cheat Sheet. It is a course I used to sell for $77. I am giving you that for free when you leave a review. All you have to do is just email us at support@jeremyreeves.com after you do that and as always, if you want to get in touch about working with us, I have I think probably 80% plus of my clients actually listened to the podcast. A lot of you guys are reaching out to me to see how I can help you with your funnel. So if that is you, then reach out and we will see you know see if it is a fit. Otherwise, I hope you have a fantastic week. I will talk to you soon and we will see you next time.

In today's episode we dive into one of those "bland yet unbelievably important" topics - metrics. Metrics are the LIFEBLOOD of your business yet probably 10% or less of companies really track them properly and use them to grow their business effectively. In this episode I'll show you exactly what metrics to track, how, and how to use the data to skyrocket your business growth. Listen To The Podcast [powerpress] Resources Mentioned AdWords Want To Work With Me? Visit http://www.JeremyReeves.com or email me at Jeremy@JeremyReeves.com Enjoy! Transcript Hey, what is going on guys, Jeremy Reeves here with another episode of the sales funnel mastery podcast. And today, we are going to talk about something really exciting and that is Metrics. We all love numbers right. So Metrics are the lifeblood of your business you know. There are so many businesses out there that do not understand their metrics and honestly one of the big you know, the big factors -- I mean talked to a lot of people everywhere you know, from people that are kind of just you know in the low 6 figure range all the way up to $300M companies, right. I am actually working doing a project for Agora right now. I am trying to be one of their controls that is bringing -- actually, I am not allowed to say confidentiality wise the numbers, but basically, it is many, many, many, many, many hundreds of thousands per month you know, kind of call that. So one of the big determining factors or one of the big differences that I see when I am talking to various levels of business owners is and I can see kind of how savvy they are as business owners. It is how well they understand their metrics, right. So I have talked to some clients and you know, usually, when I talk to people the first questions that I start asking are you know, how much are you getting per lead you know, what is your cost per click. What is your cost per lead. What is your conversion rate. What is your like on your opt in page. what is your conversion rate on your sales page. What is your you know, average order value. What is your average customer lifetime value you know, all of these metrics are really, really important because if you look at business, all business is money in versus money out, right. That is really what it comes down. Money in versus money out. If you are bringing in more money than you are spending, it is a good business. If you are -- you know, obviously that is relative. If you are spending more money than you are making, it is you know, you are not in a good situation and even with that, and I am sure everybody listening to this can agree of how important that is to know that because mean, you know, it is literally you know, it is kind of like you know, your health and you have no idea what is going on with your health. I mean, obviously, that is a bad situation you know, and that is when you get into trouble. And you know, even with that, I am sure everyone listening can agree on that, that metrics are like one of the single most important things that you need to know in your business, and yet, very few people actually know them you know. Think about your business, do you have a spreadsheet you know, calculating all of your various metrics in your business or at least something like analytics showing you, you know, the visitors you are getting, your conversion rates, you know, analytics can track all that on your website you know, things like that. If you are doing Facebook or AdWords, are you really tracking everything that you are doing so you know exactly what is working, exactly what keywords are working, what are not working, that kind of thing. So I give you a couple of examples here. So I had a lady, she had a dog training business and she came to me and she is like you know, it is not working, I do not know what is going on, blah, blah, blah, you know, I bought this business and you know, it is not really you know, I do not know if this is the case, but I felt like she felt like the person who sold it to her kind of gave her like a crappy business. It actually turns out, I actually sat with her and I you know, we put the numbers together and it actually turned out that the business was freaking phenomenal, right. She was getting -- and this is with like pretty much no marketing experience just handed to her. She was getting 9 times ROI on her ad spent, but she did not know that because she was not tracking things properly you know and it is a huge mistake but it is so, so common that it is unbelievable. You know, most business owners unless -- anybody under 7 figures it is almost rare for people to really, really, really, really have a really solid grasp of their metrics and the funny thing is, it is almost impossible to go above 7 figures if you do not know your metrics. So it is kind of a weird you know, irony there. So that is one thing. Another thing is that I am working with another client and I just had a meeting with him yesterday and you know, the topic was okay, you know, how do we keep you know, how do we continue to improve things. How do we continue to improve our metrics. And one of the things that I said was, I said, okay, and their businesses is a little bit complex because they are bringing leads in for 1 business and they get a certain dollar amount for those leads, but then they are also using those leads in another one of their businesses. So it is kind of -- it is more complex than you know, than the average kind of business and then there are also selling leads you know, that kind of thing. So there is a lot of different factors in play here, but I am going to try and keep it simple. What I said was okay, you know, for the average customer that comes to your doors, how much are they worth to you, you know, long term and they said, well, kind of depends. And also another kind of wrinkle in here is they have an online and an offline funnel. So the funnels had different metrics, so the offline I think was worth $130 a lead or a customer and the online worth $180 or might be -- it does not really matter. So I said, alright, let us at least you know, I do not think we are going to get this perfect, but let us at least get kind of the baseline, right. Let us at least get an estimate and say, okay, you know, let us just say that you know, they are worth $150 on average, at least, it is better than nothing you know, it is not a perfect kind of thing, but let us just say $150. Let us also put in a little bit of buffer in there, so let us just say, you know, they have to be worth you know, $130 or so to kind of be worth it to continue you know, getting those leads. So essentially, what I said was, okay, let us pick a number, let us just say it is $150, I forget the numbers off on top of my head. I deal with a lot of different businesses, so I have all kinds of different metrics going on in my head right now. So let us just say it was $150 just for you know, just for argument sake here. So I said, alright, your average person’s worth $150, right. Now, what is your allowable cost per new customer, right. So how much do you want to profit because you do not want to spend $150 you know, to then make $150 over time. You are essentially just you know, getting a zero return and you are not even getting it back for like the next you know, a couple of months or year or whatever it is. So let us just say we brought it down to you know $120, right. So the allowable cost is $120 to then make $150 in whatever the next 6 months or so, right. So they are making $30 you know, essentially, you know, 20% ROI over a 6-month period. Not great stats, but they are doing a lot of volume, so it is a little bit different when they are doing a volume (inaudible 7:32.1). So I said, alright, so you are able to spend $120 per you know, customer that you bring in the door. So let us now look at your advertising and figure out what is working and what is not. So we have your allowable cost per new customer, is $120, right. So I said, alright, their main advertising was AdWords, right, which makes it easy. So I said, alright, let us now look at all of your keywords because your average -- I think her average was, I think it was $130 something like that, let us just say it was $130. So I said, alright, so if your average cost per new customers $130 that means that you have some keywords that you are probably getting new customers for you know $30 or $50 and you have other keywords that are probably going upwards of $200 to acquire new customer and what we are going to do is take that $120 right, and have a little bit of a buffer, but essentially anybody -- any keyword that it is costing more than $120 to acquire new customer we ditched them. We removed them and then all of the ones that were under $120 especially the lower ones, we are going to ramp them up as high as we can that way you can keep a similar volume right, you spend for the customers that are really profitable, we are going to go up a little bit but you are also getting rid of all of the customers that were not profitable, right. So it is going to even out. So now you are actually going to end up spending much less money probably around 25% less, but you are still getting a similar amount of volume, right. So your actual profit is 25% higher, obviously, you know, those are -- we literally just started this yesterday. So those are not real numbers. Those are just you know, kind of estimated numbers, but you know, that is what happens when you really understand your metrics, you can do things like that, like when you know, okay, I need to get leads in for $2 because I know that you know, one in ten leads is going to convert and -- just say one in twenty leads is going to convert 5% conversion rate and that means that, what is that, I forget the numbers. I just finished up sending an appeal letter to the IRS, my brain is a little bit funky. They are trying to screw me up (inaudible 10:05.6) for something that was their fault, but anyway, so you know, we are getting leads for $2 each, one in twenty convert that means that is a 5% conversion rate that means that you are getting a new customer for $40 right. So if you know that, then all you have to do is find advertising where you can find customers for less than $40 right. That is it, and maybe you know, whatever your numbers are maybe that customer is worth $80 over the next 3 months or 6 months or whatever it is, but all you really need there is your -- you have to know first of all what your lifetime customer value is and you have to define that. So you can do -- I like to do a short term and a long term. So I like to do typically what is the customer worth in the first 30 days right because that is short term. I mean, you can -- most people can afford to you know, kind of have that cash flow going in 30 day periods right, without you know, drying up your bank. And then I also like to look long term. So long term is very, very, very different for some people you know or for everybody you know. For smaller companies let us just say under 7 figures, that might -- long term might be 3 months right or maybe 6 months, depends on how much cash flow you have, depends on how profitable you are already. For bigger companies so for you know, a couple of 100 million dollar companies for 8 figure companies even, you might stretch that out to 6 months or 12 months or 2 years or you know, some companies, they gauge their lifetime customer value over like a 5-year period right, but that is when you get into the really high number. So let us just say that your short term is 30 days and your long term is just say 3 months right. So what is -- let us do 6 months actually because that is a little bit more realistic. So alright, so what is your customer worth in the first 30 days, okay. So figure that number out then what are they worth in the first 6 months and what you will find is that if your new customer is worth and again, these are just hypothetical numbers, they are going to vary drastically in all different industries, all different businesses, I am just kind of throwing this out there. So let us just say that your new customer is worth I do not know, $50 in the first 30 days, okay, but after 6 months, they are worth $100 right. So what you have to look at is okay, well, to be able to scale my business I can then spend $50 to acquire new customer because I know that I am getting that back in the first 30 days then you essentially break even on that customer the first 30 days. Now the goal, I mean typically, when I do this, I try to break even on the first like 48 hours, but I am just using 30 days just you know, just a simple exam. I like to typically and again, this depends on the client. It depends on your business. It depends on the goal of the you know, campaign that you are doing you know, because there is all different types of campaigns. There is lead generation campaigns. There is audience awareness campaigns. There is profit campaigns which is usually going back to customers. So there is all these different things to consider. So then you say, okay, you know, so you know, and I have this advertising. I know that I am making $50 per customer in the first 30 days, but I am also making $100 in the first 6 months so is it worth it you know, then you have to look at -- so you have your lifetime customer value for 30 days and 6 months or 12 months whatever you want to do then you say, okay, so what I am willing to spend to get that customer. I know that they are worth $50 in the first 30 days and $100 in the first 6 months, okay and it is only going to increase in there, so they might be worth $200 in the first 2 years or whatever. So then you have to say, okay, well, what ROI do I want. What is my allowable cost. So, maybe, if you are in a good cash flow situation, maybe you can do spend $50 to acquire the new customer and just break even in the first 30 days knowing that you are going to double your ROI you know, over the next 6 months right. If you are kind of bootstrapping a little bit more you might say, okay, we are going to only focus on -- we are going to get super, super, super laser targeted and I can spend $30 to make in the first 30 days right, knowing that they worth $50, so you are going to essentially profit $20 per customer in the first 30 days and then $100 over the next 6 months, but you have to figure out your allowable cost and that is a little bit different for everybody, it depends on your risk level, it depends on your available cash flow, it depends on what advertising you are actually using. So all these different factors, right. The whole point of this is that you have to know these numbers, right. So if you do not know these numbers that is the first thing that you should do. Now if you are just starting you do not have to worry about it too much because you kind of have to find you know, your bigger play -- if you are in you know, the lower 6 figures like you know, just say 0 to I do not know $2 or $300,000, I would focus on a little bit more on really narrowing down your message, right. Your USP, your exact audience, your exact offer that you are giving them and why you are unique and special you know, different and all that kind of thing. But if you are above you know, just say quarter million or so, you really, really, really, really, really, really need to start focusing on your metrics and really get a good grasp on them because when you know your metrics it opens up everything because then you know exactly what your promotions have to convert. You know exactly how much money you can spend. You know exactly how much money is going to be in your bank you know, if you are paid traffic at least because when you are doing paid you know, and that is kind of the holy grail when you can make traffic work to paid traffic then you know that, hey, if I spend $10,000 this month that means I am going to make just like $12,000 in the first 30 days, I am going to make $20,000 in the next 6 months and you can actually predict how fast you are going to grow with your business, right. So I hope that all make sense. So that is my (inaudible 16:27.3) for today, as always, if you enjoyed this episode or this podcast in general, make sure you are telling your friends about it. If you are on any Facebook forms or you know, whatever you are on you know, make sure you tell people about it so we can kind of grow the community a little bit more. Like I said, it has been growing really, really fast lately, basically it doubled in the last 2 months or so which is awesome, I am really excited about that and it makes me want to continue to do it. Also, if you leave a review that is going to help us grow the fastest, it only takes like 30 seconds and you know, it would just be you know, if you really enjoyed this, it would be a huge favor to me if you just leave a review on itunes. Again, it takes like 30 seconds and it would be a giant favor to me. I spent a lot of time putting these together and thinking about it and for going out and finding guests and all that kind of fun stuff, so it would be a huge favor to me plus it is only in your best interest because I am going to send you my 101 Conversion Tips free if you leave a review. All you have to do is just leave a review and then shoot me an email support@jeremyreeves.com letting me know that you left a review and will send you that over. I actually got a -- I got an email from someone the other day that did that and he looked through the 101 Conversion Tips you know, PDF, and he said -- he was like, oh my God, I cannot believe you are giving away this for free. He said, I actually feel bad for going through this because you need to be charging money for this you know, so and I used to. I used to charge $77. The reason by the way that I am giving away for free right now, it is not going to be forever. The reason that I am right now is because some of the things in their not all, but you know, there is a 101 Conversion Tips and probably, I do not know, 15 maybe are a little bit outdated, things that you know, used to work or old formats, things like that and I just have not updated it yet. I used to do my site on HTML with Dreamweaver and all that and since I switched over to well, thrive that I am using now it you know, basically, I just have not move that product over. So it is something I used to sell for $77 and basically just have -- I just need to update it and then started selling it again, but again, I am giving it away for free simply because out of laziness, I do not really have anything else that I could think to give you. So I am just giving it away that because I thought it would be cool, but yeah. So anyway, leave a review. Tell your friends and I will talk to you next time. I hope you enjoyed it. Bye.

In this episode, we chat with Nate Smith. Nate is pretty new to the entrepreneur game yet was able to 8x his business in a SINGLE year. We talk about exactly how he did that, what he learned through his experience and so much more! Resources Mentioned http://www.8020marketingguy.com/jeremy/ Want To Work With Me? Visit http://www.JeremyReeves.com or email me at Jeremy@JeremyReeves.com Enjoy! Transcript Jeremy Reeves: Hey everyone, Jeremy Reeves here back with another episode of the sales funnel mastery podcast and today I have on the line, Nate no name. I was actually just doing his intro and forgot his last name for a second. So sorry about that Nate. Nate Smith: Yeah, I think, actually I am going to go with that, it is probably better for SEO. Jeremy Reeves: Yeah, right. Nate no name. So his name is Nate Smith and Nate is a former professional musician who decided to get into online business 4 years ago. He launched his first successful product in January of last year, 2015, and since doing that has grown his profits 8 times over the course of basically of last year. So now since he has got that experience actually doing it for himself, he decided to help other entrepreneurs kind of do the same thing and earn more from their existing audiences typically by improving conversion rates of their funnels, kind of like what I do. So Nate has worked with authors such as Taylor Pearson, author of The End of Jobs and he also works with a lot of startups. So we are going to get in to all that, but before we do, Nate you know, welcome to the show and tell everybody a little bit more about yourself and a little bit about your story. Nate Smith: Yeah, thanks so much for having me and hopefully this would not devolve into me just picking your brain for an hour because I am a little bit star struck at the moment. I am talking to the man. I am talking to the conversion rate guy. So yeah, my journey is -- as Jeremy said, I was a professional musician and you know, 5 or 6 years ago I decided that I was sick of working a day job and sick of kind of playing in the same stand box as everybody else, like I had an inkling that everyone was competing for pieces of a shrinking pie, but I did not exactly know what to do yet and then through some friends and through a couple of books I read, I learned about entrepreneurship. I learned that this was a thing and I was still kind of skeptical about it, so I had read 4 Hour Work Week and then I was actually at that time considering applying to Stern Business School because I was working a day job at NYU and I am like, you know what, this whole entrepreneur stuff sounds pretty scammy, but let me just try it like an experiment and then even if it goes totally (inaudible 2:31.4) and still right about it as a case study to apply to business school. And about 2 months in I was like, hang-on a second, this might be a thing and by the end of the first 6 months, I was like, yeah, there is no way I am spending money for business school after this. But it was still another 3 years before I actually saw like money coming into my bank account in a really validating way like 4 figures just boom overnight in my back account and then you know, finally I could pay off the credit cards and it is maybe the one time in my life when the actual experience has paid off in the way that I have been anticipating for it to pay off, you know how things are, it is like you think, yeah, when I get up to this plateau, that will be amazing in the (inaudible 3:21.8) it was not really all that. So I wanted other people to feel that way so I have definitely been super bullish on turning around and helping other people get their businesses started, so you know, I am a member of a few networking groups and over the course of 2015, I was growing my business and I was trying all these things with my primary business with my course to like grow my profits. So I had realized first of all that traffic growth was just going to be a long haul, like it was going to be a slow you know, careful strategy, it was going to be content, it was going to be all these other things, but the thing at my disposal, the thing that I had control over was conversion rate. So just by like changing an email sequence or writing a better sales page or you know, here is a shocker, asking people why they did not buy things. I could make interventions to my business that would in the course of like 2 weeks, cause like multiplicative effect So it all kind of came into my head at the beginning of this year when I have been blogging about it and writing about it on the entrepreneur forums and one of my friends who has startup called Bobsled Marketing which helps founders get the products on Amazon and by the way she is booming up now. She is like, she is on track to hit 7 figures this year which is amazing, but she hired me to help her with her funnel, I was like, wow. So could this be a thing and then you know, 6 to 9 months later and a handful of clients later this is kind of what I do now. This is what I am doubling down on. So it has been a super quick journey from successful solopreneur to conversion consultant and I tried to be humble and realistic about what I actually really know and that has been a lesson. It is like what can I guarantee that I will be able to do for you and just you know, continuing to learn but also like fine honing that deliverable further consulting clients. So within the realm of the things that I have direct experience with and you know, can fairly well guarantee that they will get value from. Jeremy Reeves: Yeah, you know, and that is a good plan. I mean always, I always -- in fact, I actually just send out a proposal this morning to a guy, Torquhil if you are listening, Hi, how are you, but you know, it is Torquhil, I have never even asked him how to pronounce it. I am going to have to, but anyway, so I was talking to him, I do not know, last week or the week before about you know, kind of us working together and that kind of thing and I was kind of explaining to him that when I work with people -- that is what I do like I always look for, okay, what can I -- because there is you know, it is marketing, it is not you know, in most cases, you cannot say, okay, I am going to do this and it is 100% absolutely guaranteed going to work you know what I mean. A lot of times like me and you with paid traffic, a lot of times you think that thing is bad ass, it is going to blow up out of the water and then you launch it and it just does not, you know (inaudible 6:47.1) face. In most cases, there are parts that work, parts that do not work and overall, it either works or it does not work you know what I mean, and but I was you know, when I am working with clients too is like okay, there is going to be all this stuff and my first kind of thought in my head when I am working with some new is how do I get them. They are going to pay me X amount of dollars, just say, whatever $10 or $5 or $20 or whatever it is you know, just say $10, so alright, they are paying me $10, how do I like get that back to them as soon as humanly possible you know what I mean. And that is just you know, working with people, I would definitely recommend looking at that way like you just said, like you know, what can you do that is going to get them kind of like a guaranteed result you know what I mean and sometimes you can set up your service where the whole services like that and then other times in our case like a conversion rate optimization, it is you know, not every test wins you know what I mean. I just had let us see from (inaudible 7:48.6) there are 2 failures in a row and then the third one won you know what I mean, but it is just you know, you have to look at it as more of an overall kind of thing and then if you know, if it does not work, then you do the right thing and you know, and kind of keep going until it does get them the result you know what I mean, but yeah, sometimes it takes some testing you know. So like with that in mind, with the whole like testing and things do and do not work and it takes a while sometimes and all that, let us go back to your success like when you grew your business you know, you were doing certain things you know in the beginning and you could kind of tell us of what things were not working in the beginning and then you know so when you grew it that much last year, you know, what were some of the things that did and also did not work as you were growing like that. Nate Smith: Yeah, 100%. So between the unsuccessful products I launched and the first successful one, there were 2 things that work. Number 1 was building a content platform and in this case it was Youtube and for different verticals it is going to be a different thing. I think for a lot of business-related verticals it is still probably blogging, but so I had that kind of cache of trust and then the second thing was simple validation. So I know there are a lot of people like Ryan Levesque, who just test this down to (inaudible 9:13.3) but you do not necessarily need to be that scientific about it. I really just had a list big enough of people who already trusted me from my content and surveyed them about what it was that they wanted. What needs they have that I was not filling and I got an email that was kind of like the golden nugget which is the thing that I now like, I always hope for with clients because it is sort short cuts the whole process and if you heard it a few times so much the better but it was an email that said, why are you wasting your time trying to build X for us. Why don’t you just sell us why and I was like oh, crap, alright, that is the move. So then the next thing that I did that now I am just adamant with clients you know, I cannot guarantee results unless we do this was that I sent kind of preliminary sales letter to people like so I imagine the product in its finish state before I build the thing and we are kind of sales page for it via email. There are different words for this I think teaser is another word. Actually, I am doing this right now with Taylor Pearson but the important part was I named the price point and I said only click this link if you are interested, and so it is not 100% guarantee that people, who click the link will buy. In fact, I think probably something like 35% to 40% of the clickers eventually converted, but it will give you a quick warning if something is not going to sell before you dump a bunch of time into it. So I launched the product successful in January that was amazing, yeah it converted at about 35% or 40% of the cohort that I launched it to which just boomed me away and then the challenge became how do I make this evergreen and how do I grow it. So to sort of return to the initial question you asked which was what were the intervention levers that proved most lucrative, that moves the needle amongst all the things I tried that did not succeed. So the first one believe it or not was the copywriting and the timing of the emails in the launch sequence and the scarcity element. So scarcity obviously means you are not offering your product just permanently available on a sales page. People need to sign up at a certain time in order to participate in the launch and if they missed that opportunity then they have to wait you know, months, weeks, or whatever. People do that in different ways. A lot of people do it through sales, but I would say (inaudible 11:59.6) Jeff Walker and in more modern circles, people like (inaudible 12:05.0) and David Siteman Garland who were like, nope, I do not do sales. I will just control when people can and cannot get into my courses. So I implemented that and when I finally figured out how to do that in an evergreen way so that everyone as they subscribed through my list had an opportunity to buy based on their behavior you know, based on their engagement levels but somewhere between 2 weeks to a month after they subscribed to my list that move the needle a lot. So that was the big one. And then after that, I doubled my revenue again by putting a nurture and a re-engagement sequence. So I learned an important lesson about sales cycle and this is something folks like Dean Jackson and Joe Polish talked about all the time which is like, only a small (inaudible 12:54.8) of your people are going to (inaudible 12:56.4) and buy it right off the bat, but that does not mean that they are not eventually can buy. So I tried to get really scientific about calculating where the sweet spot of the sales cycle was, like when are most people willing to buy and after what point, what is the point of diminishing returns after which. If someone has not bought by now odds are they are never going to buy it. So I am not worried about offending them by hitting them with future sales pitches. So those two and then I think probably the final one was just sales page copywriting. So believe it or not, like for about 6 months, I just had a totally garbage sales page and you know around July or August of last year I decided -- and yeah this illustrates you know for you and for everybody how green I am still at it but you know, got to be real about it. Yeah, I decided. I need to write a sales page. So I just went to school on it you know, I just studied all of my favorite sales pages from all the lists that I was subscribed to. People were doing scarcity launches. I made sure that I participated in the launch so that I could screenshot their sales page and study it. I read you know, a few books that friends recommended on it and basically you know, locked myself in my room for an entire week and wrote a sales page and I tested it in optimizely and it was like 2x. So that was the big one. So I think those are kind of the big 3. Jeremy Reeves: Okay, got you. Yeah, and a lot of it really does like it is not -- with most of business, it is really not rocket science you know what I mean. It is not like you did some crazy things that nobody has ever heard off and you know I mean it is really just you know, you gave them a really good offer like with scarcity and all that included and you had good copy on the page and did a lot better you know. It is really not, it is not anything new. It is just you got to -- just do the work you know and get it done you know. So what was wrong with your -- cell phone is going on, I forgot to turn on silent. Actually it does on silent, and it is still going on. Nate Smith: Oh please is that an emergency. Jeremy Reeves: No my phone has been dying on me. I need a new one. I am lazy of buying cell phones. Nate Smith: (inaudible 15:18.6) they are expensive. Jeremy Reeves: Yeah, well, I am too lazy to switch it over you know what I mean which is also another good kind of marketing point. It actually comes back to scarcity you know, that is a lot of times why people respond to scarcity is because it is just, they know they need it. It is like, you know I am going to get it, I am going to get it and then it is on sale or you are getting free bonuses or it is going away or whatever and just that well, you know, you can get it now on its half price or you know, if you do not buy it now, it is not going to be available for 6 months or whatever then it gets people over the hump you know what I mean. So the phone call actually leads into a good kind of you know message. Nate Smith: Yeah, 100%. I think the scarcity and the limited opportunities to join combined with a deliverable that is on demand and sort of self-paced like this is one reason why I am so bullish on courses as deliverables right now as alternatives to say SAS or services. I think it is just a super easy way to get your value at there and let people pay for it and then get value from it on demand like Netflix or something. So (inaudible 16:36.9) if someone is on the fence and they were like yeah, you know, I may not need this for another month, but I might not have another opportunity to join for 6 months. I think that is really important element. Jeremy Reeves: Yeah. So when you were -- when you do all this -- so now you, you know, you revamp your copy. You added scarcity in there, everything you just talked about and then so what did you do for on a traffic side of things because we have been talking about conversions, you know, what were some of the things you did on the traffic side of things to help kind of get that 8x number in there. Nate Smith: Okay, so yeah, my traffic did double in that year, so that is why you know, from writing ads from my consulting I am careful to say like conversion rate optimization is responsible for 4x of the 8x, but so there are few things that worked. Number 1 was just continuing to make content and being pretty strategic about the content that I made. So it was like once -- Jeremy Reeves: (inaudible 17:38.8) into that more, definitely. That is something that very few people talked about. I did a guest post on it, I do not know may be 2 or 3 months ago for I do not even remember who was it for. I read a lot of articles. But you know, it is something very few people talked about it. It is just everybody is just, oh, I know more traffic, I need more traffic, I need more traffic and I was actually just on podcast and we are talking about the difference between quality of traffic and quantity of traffic you know what I mean. So yeah, so dig into that more and let us talk about that a little bit. Nate Smith: Okay, I have a got a lot of thoughts and quality and quantity of traffic. In fact, I just wrote a blog post today and I saw this when I started my own business, but I am also seeing it with clients. So one thing that I discover actually which is sort of helping me get over some of my mindset hurdles as a consultant because you think, oh, this person is a 7 figure company with like 25 employees like what can I tell them, it is like well, that is why they are getting someone from the outside to come in because a lot of these startups will have what I call KPI silos, and actually that is one reason I was super excited to talk to you is because when I have heard you on the podcast, you are really bullish on this kind of holistic approach to the funnels, it is like what is your acquisition cost. What is your lifetime value, I do not want to hear about anything else that is not going toward either of those bottom lines, but what happens is you have people measuring click through rate from an Ad in isolation and then opt in conversion rate from a landing page in isolation. And you will end up attracting bad traffic and the reason why is, if you are not tying everything back to how profitable somebody is, I actually came up with this idea of like 3 customer avatars right. So it is like I am starting to run paid traffic to my landing pages to get people on my list and to sort of experiment with you know customer avatars and pivots for both my consulting and future products right. So I am running paid traffic to my list and I am noticing that there are 3 sort of types. So one I like to call Craigand you know apologies for anybody is Craig out there, maybe it is from Craig’s list, sorry Craig, but Craig works at a holistic (inaudible 20:00.7) and his brother works at Microsoft and he is interested in being an entrepreneur, but he is not really an action taker. So Craig sees my offer on Facebook and it says, my lead magnet which is 3 simple steps that helped me 4x my earnings you know, download the few part, it is like (inaudible 20:23.2) so if I optimize for click throughs I am going to get a bunch of Craigs, but the thing you do not know about Craig is as soon as he is on the landing page, he needs to enter in his email, he is like, ah, I do not know what the privacy and everything and like, how do I know I can trust this guy and am I getting a text and he is off (inaudible 20:41.5). So you could spend $1000 optimizing for getting Craigs to your page and you would have zero to show for it, but maybe you decide you want to optimize for conversions. That is what all the paid traffic people are like, right. Like just optimize for conversions bro. So it is like, cool. So you are optimizing -- you put a pixel on your thank you page after your opt in. So now you got Pete and Pete likes to order body building supplements and he is actually had 1 foot in the day job and he has been trying to start a business for like the last 3 years. The problem is Pete does not like to invest in long term solutions. He has got kind of shiny objects in general. So now, Adwords and Facebook and Bing Ads or whatever you are running to your page is selecting for Pete because yeah, Craig will click, but Petes are the people who are converting. So if you optimize for Pete, sorry, (inaudible 21:38.0), but anyway, if you optimize for Pete you are going to write a very different landing page. You are going to have a landing page with an attractive model. It will say something like 3 report reveals the secrets to 5 million dollar success and Pete is all about that. He is going to opt in all day, but then the problem is you are not going to sell anything to Pete further down the line. So the point is those are the 2 top stages of the funnel and if you take this kind of traditional segmented stage by stage approach to things you might be ignoring Shiva, who is a partner in a 6 figure startup, who realizes that she is losing 4 to 5 figures a month just because of conversion rate attrition in your funnel and maybe 1 out of every 100 Shivas aren’t put off by the ad or the landing pages and good damn thing because when she finally sees your content and your copy she is great. She loves it, but the problem is you need to spend $1500 to get just 1 sale if you are optimizing for the wrong things. So why not start from who actually bought your stuff and find more of those people. So you are viewing click through rate as a function of again like how much does it actually cost me to acquire someone who is eventually going to buy, like I do not care about anyone else. If you are doing opt in you know conversion rate through the same filter. So you start with your funnel conversion rate, right. Like, is a 2% or above great, raise your prices. Is it below 2%, okay, now let us look at your opt in conversion rate, right, like it is a 10% to 15% across your property. Okay, if it is great, then we want to look at your sales conversion rate, but if it is not that you know, we want to do some of the common you know, opt in conversion rate optimizations like optimizing your landing pages to make the offer clear and making the button clear and like putting the -- putting super clear CTAs on your content pages, etc. Once you have those 2 dialed in, then you can go further inward and say okay, now it is time to look at the copywriting, the persuasion, all of that stuff, but that way, you are not going to end up spending a bunch of time and resources optimizing for people occupying spaces on your mailing list who are not eventually going to buy. Jeremy Reeves: Yeah, you know, it is -- like you were saying before how I look at kind of you know, all the KPIs and the actual matrix and stuff like that of the actual buyers you know, I am working with a company now and we are split testing a couple of different leads for VSL that we are doing and so they came back and they were like, okay, you know, here are some of the results, blah, blah, and I was like, okay, well how are you like just kind of confirm how are you getting these results and they said, oh, we are looking at page views like engagement on the video. I am like, okay, that needs to stop right now. Let’s go back, we have to do this on the actual sales you know, so now like, they did not really realized that and I should be the one that was setting it up, really, but -- so now, you know, we are going back and we are going to start retesting all those different things based on sales you know because it is kind of like if you look at emails, a really good kind of way to make this applicable is -- look at your email rates and if you know, so for example, I have another client that we just put in a -- which was the first one, it was a prospect campaign. So prospect campaign, there was not one in place before we put one in for people basically who abandoned shopping cards, it kind of like a 2 step process and people who only went through the first step, we put an end to try to get them to complete second step. Nate Smith: Oh, I cannot wait to hear this because I am working on the same thing. Jeremy Reeves: Yeah, yeah, so basically, what we did was we look and we put tracking code in for each of the emails to track the actual results of each individual email, not like the sequence itself, but each individual email and we found that you know emails number 1 and number 5 were converting like bought like head and shoulders above the other ones. So you know, if you look and you look it at that way, I mean, I do not even know the open and the click through rates because they do not matter that much you know, like how many podcast and things have you talked about it and oh, you know, I got a 40% open rate. I got whatever percent click through rate. How often do you actually hear people say, well, you know, I am getting X percent of sales from this email you know what I mean. It is like -- Nate Smith: I go this client, he is getting clicks for like a penny a click, it is like, great, but what is his conversion rate (inaudible 26:34.6) zero sales. Jeremy Reeves: Yeah. So you know, it is just you know, people when you are doing this and like you were talking about before, you have to look at it -- you have to look at each step of the funnel and kind of analyze that is what it is like you know, when I talked about kind of fixing your funnel. That is one of the first things we look at is okay, you know the funnel is doing whatever right now, either it is not converting or it is a breakeven or it is profitable, either way you still want to optimize it, does not really matter. I mean sometimes if it is converting like horrifically bad, then you just kind of scrap the whole thing and start over, but if it is showing life and you started to optimize it I mean all you really do is look, okay, start at the beginning, click through rate, how is that doing. Does it meet our kind of you know, benchmark our you know, baseline criteria, yes. Okay, next thing, opt in rate. Okay, next thing, sales page you know, and just look through the whole sequence and if you find the weak point in any of those areas it kind of gives you a hint of where to look you know, it is kind of like you know, a lot of marketers where really jus detectives you know. If you find you know, gun residue or whatever happens when you shoot a gun, you know, if you find that or if you find you know, bullet casing or something, well it tells you, it gives you a place to start to you know, do your detective work you know. Nate Smith: Right. And as much experiences that you have, you probably start to get kind of a spidey sense about, does this feel right or not. Jeremy Reeves: Yep, yep. I go a lot off my gut actually, but yeah, and you know, that is you know, one thing that people like it seems like a common them in like what you have done to grow your business so fast. You just look and say, okay, you know, what is happening here, okay, that is doing fine. Let us move to the next thing, okay, well, then you got to your you know, when you are looking at it, you said you got your copy and you said, oh, that is not doing good. So then you -- you know, start it there and you work and tweak that made it better you know. And now you know, -- actually, it takes me to my next point. What is -- what is your kind of next steps with that business. So you already you know, took it 8 times you know, what is the next step. What is the next on the plate you know, what are you going to start looking at next to grow it even further. Nate Smith: Yeah, great question. So that (inaudible 28:54.2) is my primary business and I continue to improve the products I have for sale and I continue to create content and grow the audience, and in Q2, speaking of working with Taylor, he pushed me because we are selling his effectiveness productivity coaching product. So I took the product because I have the copy ready for it. So one of the thing is that you are supposed to chose a single goal for 90 days. So for Q2, my goal was become a 6 figure consultant. So most of my best efforts, my best brain glucose in terms of growth is gone into helping to serve my clients as well as I can and learning as much as I can from them and also to sort of build a content and authority platform in the conversion rate and funnel vertical, but the great thing is I allowed myself one avenue or one activity with the primary business and that was content and traffic. So actually by restricting what I can work on that has made me sort of more creative about it. So it is like, alright, I can only do traffic over at the primary business which by the way is the 80/20 Drummer, he was a professional drummer so I monetized my music skill. So what has worked well in traffic, things like joint ventures on Youtube, right, where someone else has a Youtube channel with some traffic and I feel like they are good fit for my audience, so I invite them on my channel and we will do a collaboration. And even if they do not reciprocate, which a lot of times, they do, it is still a great way to increase the exposure for both of us because a lot of times they will share the video with their audience. So yeah, it has been primarily traffic and incremental product improvement over on the 80/20 Drummer side, but I am learning so much from working with consulting clients that it will be fun to try to apply some of these lessons I am learning like for instance, the Ryan Levesque thing, right, like go back and find the people who have not bought anything from you and survey them and find out if there is any you can serve for them so then you will have another product or the Perry Marshall upsale thing. Like how many people would be willing to pay 4 figures for some sort of in person event is that power curve from 80/20 sales and marketing. So that stuff has been fun to think about. Jeremy Reeves: Yeah, nice, nice. I kind of do that too because there is only, and I can relate because one of side businesses actually, I am actually working on it today, because we are doing a big launch next week. So it is one of my you know, usually -- I only work on it either nights or weekends and it is kind of the same thing. It is like, it is not -- it is not making enough that it is like, it does not even compare to what I make with like in a consulting side of things, but it is like I mean, like 100% passive you know what I mean. I spend like half hour a month on it. If I am not doing marketing stuff like (inaudible 32:10.3) I just let it run and it is like half hour a month. That is kind of how I am like I found and I was just kind of analyzing what I work on with that business versus consulting business and I found that I am a lot more focus and I am even with the consulting like I am very focused. I have weekly like kind of meetings with myself, like I analyzed my habits on a weekly basis and so I am still very focused in what I do in everything, but even with Keno or the side business, I have noticed that like, I mean, when I work on that, I know that I only have like an hour, 1 night, or when the kids are sleeping on Saturday or something like that and it is just like I mean in that hour, I get done so much work, it is insane, you know what I mean. Nate Smith: That is amazing. Yeah, it makes me wonder actually if having a entrepreneurial venture that you started on your own is positively correlated with success and sort of velocities to success as a consultant. I wonder because obviously like we both the learned the lessons about business from doing it ourselves, but I have also found that having the cash flow from the original business has allowed me to be long-term outcome dependent, but yeah, short-term outcome dependent with the consulting. So I am not necessarily nervous on any individual sales call and I am kind of in the psychology of like seeing if something is a good fit rather than hard-selling somebody. Jeremy Reeves: Yeah, I like it. Yeah, that is a good point you know. It comes back to kind of you know, a foundational marketing principles to think strategic long-term rather than just kind of short-term promotions. I actually just took a -- one of my clients, she was kind of short-term, just did promotions every couple of months and -- that was one of the things that I focused on with her was, okay, let us get away from that and let us put this into like more of an evergreen thing and she is up to like $1500 a day now from just kind of making that switch from the you know, like just a promotional business to like an actual you know, like long-term kind of focus and having perpetual traffic and sales and all that kind of stuff. Nate Smith: Yeah, that is awesome. Can I ask you a quick question. I am sorry. Jeremy Reeves: Oh yeah, go ahead. Nate Smith: So, I am curious about something which is earlier in the call, you were talking about how you like to be really outcome focused on behalf of your clients. In terms of -- they hire you for a broad objective to create value in their funnel, and I noticed the same thing especially with a couple of clients lately where it is like, they will hire me to accomplish a goal, right, like improve conversions for this thing, but the particular means that we think are going to be the one to succeed, may not actually be the thing that succeeds. So just for instance, the cart abandonment email sequence. So I had to look at that and then I am like, you know, these emails are not bad. Let me see the checkout page and I am like, well I cannot even find the shipping form on the checkout page. Let us just put this above the fold. So my question for you is, what happens for you with clients when -- I guess how do you allow in your arrangements for projects where the scope might quickly change because you need to pivot quickly, because it turns out something different than what you originally anticipated is the best way to accomplish the goal. I hope that phrase -- is that okay. Jeremy Reeves: Yeah, yeah, yeah. That is a good question. I think this is kind of a good thing for anybody in the service industry to hear you know, what I do is, I always look, when I am talking to somebody on the phone, I am always in my head like okay, what is the best win here. What is the easy win you know, what is the best way to essentially accomplish a goal for the money they are paying me you know, that is kind of like the filer that I have at all times when I am talking to people. So we usually go ahead and do that and it basically either works or does not work you know, there is really no like it kind of half works like you really either just, it works or does not. So you know, in most cases, it will work and revenue goes up and everybody is happy and all that, but in the times that it does not work what I do is because yeah, sometimes when you are working on the project, because you only have you know, you only talk to the client for whatever 30 minutes or whatever on the phone, so you really do not get that deep of an understanding of their business. So if things come up, if the first project works then I will say, okay, here is -- and a lot of times at the beginning we have -- we kind of have mapped out the phase 1 and phase 2 you know what I mean, because a lot of people like to start with something a little bit smaller to get the win, to get like that, just that confidence you know what I mean, and then it is like, okay, let us do this and then the second thing after that is we are going to do this. So if the first thing does not turned out as plan, what I typically do is go back and look for something that is going to get that like easy win you know, that quick win, that it is like maybe it was like a smaller piece of you know, like a smaller project that was not really -- it did not really like it was, it was -- something that would definitely win, but it was not really, it would have made sense to go in the original scope of the project. If that make sense, I am not really sure for being clear. Nate Smith: No, no, I get it. Jeremy Reeves: Yeah, yeah, and then go back and then say, like, okay, you know, you paid me X dollars that did not really work unfortunately, so let us go back, let us at least get you a win you know, because I hate, it drives me nuts to even just thinking about the fact that somebody pays me money and they do not make a return on that you know what I mean. So I always look at -- that is kind of how I go about it is looking at you know, looking at what has the best possibility of getting them their money back and obviously you know, a big return on their money. Obviously, you know, the goal is to maximize their return And then you know, if it just does not work which you know, all these and marketing happens once in a while, then you go back and say, okay, well, what is another area that we are just going to add it, it is going to be a definite win. Usually, it is not something that is going to take like a month to do it, something smaller. Could even be, I mean, I have even done things simple as, okay, let us do a promotion you know, to at least get your -- like I will write up the emails for you. Make the sales page whatever which those are usually pretty quick and easy sales page and run that and that way at least you know, the thing that we originally thought was going to work did not work, but at least this way, you are still getting return you know what I mean. So that is kind of how I -- that is kind of how I approached it you know and I think it comes back to just doing business to help other people you know. I think that is applicable whether you have a product, whether you have a service, a SAS, I mean whatever it is. You should always be in it. People should be paying you money and you should get them a return on that money and you know, we are in business, so it is a financial return but it could be health, it could be you know, whatever it is. They should be getting, they should be getting kind of a specific outcome from you know working with you, you know. So that is kind of my thought process I guess on all that. Nate Smith: Yeah, that is great. Jeremy Reeves: Yeah. So yes, let us go -- we will wrap it up. Let me ask you this. If there is, if there is one thing, I try to think of the way to -- I try to think of a way to word it that it make sense you know, looking back over your past you know year wow it has been a year and a half, it still kills me. I am still not used to be in the middle of the year already. Seriously, this year is flying by. So looking back over the last you know, a year and a half, you know, things were not working out until then, all of the sudden you know, it just turned on, the things started working and then you went -- for the success from the product and now you know, you are starting to get into the consultancy side of things and things are starting to you know move along. Is there any like one thing that you can look back and say if I did not do that, none of this would have happen like that one -- was there any like kind of one pivot point you know what I mean that kind of made everything shift. Nate Smith: Yeah, 100%, that is a great question. Yeah and actually, so let me first answer that and then I will very quickly review in your audience with what I do now to try (inaudible 41:05.5). So yeah, in November of 2014, I was in that and I have been spinning my wheels in this niche, the music niche, and I had products for sale, but they were low price, they were not converting to pretty well and I kept seeing other things that I might want to jump into like, oh you know, maybe I should just help people make videos on Youtube or I forgot, oh yeah, maybe I should just blog, maybe I should just be a travel blogger or something like that and so I really had no faith that it was going to work out and it was almost accidental that just out of frustration that I decided to send that email to my list about okay you know, this clearly is not working, so what can I do for you, and that was the spark about oh, maybe I can actually build this for them. So yeah, and then, when that was -- like even after (inaudible 42:12.3) even after I had that validation, I still needed a push across the finish line actually really shipped the product and so I had mentor who was pretty stern with me about what are you doing, why are you dragging your feet. You need to ship and so he challenged me to launch and like the next 2 weeks, he is like I am going to call you 2 weeks from now and if you have not launch, we are going to have words. So that was the other big one and I see now why he wanted to do that because he needed to drag me across the finish line to give me that feeling that dopamine of something succeeding so that I would know what that felt like and be able to chase it and try to recreate it in the future. So now the question I asked myself and speaking of doing the daily and weekly (inaudible 43:01.6) journaling, you mentioned you were doing that too, but one thing I like to ask myself is, what am I assuming is impossible just because it has not succeeded yet. Jeremy Reeves: I like that. I might write that down actually. Yeah, I like that. It is a good way to -- I am usually pretty good with like you know, mindset thing and not really putting limits on myself on that, but I like that. I think that would help a lot of people. Nate Smith: Yeah, and you have also got a lot more experience so I hope that by the time I have as much as experience as you have, I am similarly less in my own way. I look forward to that. Jeremy Reeves: You know what, I have realized over the course of career that and even now, I am starting to put a lot of focus not just on you know, because I would say up until I do not know maybe a year ago or so, it was like basically everything that I listened to was skill based you know, improving myself as a copywriter, as a marketer, as strategist, that kind of thing, and I have realized that if you do not have, like if you do not improve yourself, you know, your mindset, your beliefs that kind of thing. It is kind of like that is -- I think at most people is the weak link you know what I mean, because you can be the best whatever copywriter in the world, but if you do not -- if you do not have like the internal mindset to know that and to have the confidence and to have the beliefs that you like are worth what you charge, you are still not going to do that you know versus there are a lot of people I mean are charging way more than they should not be charging and it is because they have like kind of the mindset thing on, but not the skill thing you know. So I think it is really important for people to have like do that personal development stuff and it really just integrate those beliefs of that you know, of that awesomeness if you will you know, that they are capable of accomplishing so much more than they think you know, because it makes you think differently. I have had several breakthroughs of my career when it was just -- things just opened up and it was like, oh my God I can do this, you know and then you go and do it and if you never had that breakthrough like if you did not allow your mind to open like that, you would never even think that idea, that idea like literally would not enter your mind you know what I mean. So I have been spending a lot of time in personal development lately you know. Even just, I mean health wise, mentally wise, you know emotional like all that spiritually all that kind of stuff. I think it is a really big you know area of improvement that most people can make. Nate Smith: Yeah, that is super deep, and I agree like, I think one thing I have really pick up on working with Taylor is that, it all comes back to that. It is sort of the single most important meta skill, like you can have everything else lined up, but if the mindset stuff is not in place, you can end up spinning your wheels, as you said, you can end up charging too much for too little value or you can end up charging too little for too much value and get bitter and burned out, so super important. Jeremy Reeves: Yeah and what was your quote is, I am going to write it down. I really like that. I am going to have -- I may have to use that. Nate Smith: I am pretty sure I stole it from somebody else too, but what am I assuming is impossible just because it has not succeeded yet. Jeremy Reeves: I like that. I am going to write that down. Nate Smith: I have got 1 more, do you want that too? Jeremy Reeves: Yeah, might as well. Nate Smith: Okay, what am I assuming is just going to happen without my taking action to make it happen. Jeremy Reeves: Nice. Nate Smith: And that is important for me with the clients in the pipeline and I am like, yeah, that was a great (inaudible 46:57.2) so then, subconsciously, I start to assume that the money is clear to my account (inaudible 47:02.5) but nope (inaudible 47:03.9). Jeremy Reeves: Yeah, it is -- I have definitely learned on that one. It is not cleared until not only do you have the check but the check is actually cleared at the bank. It is fun -- I have actually gone into the point where I had one client and the check went through, it was just a small mistake. There was an awesome client, but they actually sent a check, so not only do they say they are going to send the check, but then they sent the check, but they forgot to sign it so I could not cash in. so I had it like, you know, so it was just funny though because that is one thing with a lot of service providers is they do that and it is like, oh yeah, you know, I got off the call. I think I am going to charge him you know, whatever $10k, so in your head, you are like, oh, where is that $10k on, but you have to have that and then you have to send the proposal and then they have to agree to the proposal and then they have to actually send the check and then the check has to actually clear. So yeah, it is funny though. Yeah, that was the only time that it ever happened, but yeah, it was just a kind of funny mistake. I was actually -- I actually busted their balls for doing that, but yeah, so I mean, that was really helpful. I thought it was you know, (inaudible 48:17.6) I thought it was going to be a cool kind of story you know, that you went through because you know, you are in the beginning stages of all this you know what I mean and I you have done really, really well especially for being kind of the beginning stages and you kind of stumbled across a few things that it takes people longer I think to come across so I thought it was going to be you know, a pretty cool kind of story, inspirational I think for a lot of people listening. Nate Smith: Man, that is super flattering to hear and it definitely means a lot to hear that you think like I am on the right track and that I stumbled across on things like definitely right that one down and remember to feel grateful for whatever things I may or may not have stumbled across. Jeremy Reeves: Yeah, definitely, but hey, you know, before we hop off, let everyone that you know, you know if anybody wants to work with you or you know, get in the blog list and your stuff, you know, whatever you want them to, wherever you want them to go, tell everybody where they can find you. Nate Smith: So let us do dedicated landing page, let us go to 80/20marketing guide.com/jeremy and if people come and give me their name and email, I will give them my 3 step guide to eliminating the elites in your funnel and the 3 most powerful steps that helped me 4x my profit and in 30 minutes you can kind of do the wants over on your funnel and see where you might be losing money. Jeremy Reeves: Nice, I like it. Hey man, it was great having you on and I wish you very good luck in both the businesses you know, the information business and then also the you know, consultancy side of things and yeah, let us keep in touch. Nate Smith: Thanks so much, great to chat with you. Jeremy Reeves: You too.

In this episode, I discuss the importance of building a business that's focused on your CUSTOMERS wants and needs, not your own. It's a business philosophy that makes an impact on every area of your life, and a very important topic!   Resources Mentioned jeremyreeves.com/podcast Want To Work With Me? Visit http://www.JeremyReeves.com or email me at Jeremy@JeremyReeves.com Enjoy! Transcript Hey guys what is going on, this is Jeremy Reeves here with another episode of the sales funnel mastery podcast. You might hear a little bit of background noise today. It is a beautiful summer day here in PA. Let us see 76 degrees actually, it is kind of cool today, but my kids are playing around outside where I am recording this, so you might hear them kind of yelling and screaming outside. One of the things I want to talk about today was how dedicated you are to your customers or your clients, right. And after going through an example or two here you are going to really know whether you are just kind of saying that you put your customers first or if you actually do that you know in reality, okay. So kind of quick story to back this up. So I have -- one of my client is on retainer. They are on retainer for $2000 a month and I actually just emailed them the other day. I think I have been doing that since let us see, March I think, so about 4 months or so, something like that, give or take. So I actually just emailed them a couple of days ago and I said, Hey, you know, I think it is actually time that we either remove -- so let me back this up. We are on -- basically, the retainer that we are on is $2000 a month plus and then there is a bonus structure. So it is basically for every kind of quarter of a percent there is a bonus attached to it -- increase of what they are already doing. So I said, Hey, you know, we have been doing this for (inaudible 1:57.5) I think it has been like 4 months and things have been going a little bit slower than I was realizing that they would because we are kind of judging it based of like an average of what we thought we are going to be able to do and for the last month or so, things have been starting to slow down because they do not have quite enough traffic to be doing enough testing you know, to be needing enough copy for my feed to really be justified. The first -- let us see, we just -- the firs test that we did took a while and that came out a little bit flat and then the next few tests were actually huge winners. I will actually kind of talk about one in a sec, but you know, the point that I am making here is that I actually emailed them and told them to stop paying me, right. And that is what happens when you actually put your customers first or you put your clients first and you actually do your you know, you actually run your business in a way that is totally client centric, you know. Everything revolves around the needs and desires and kind of you know, wants of the people that you are serving, right. And that is one of my core philosophies in business is to always make sure that I put the other person first because number 1 it just makes you feel better as a person. It makes you feel better as a person when you help others, right. Actually, a couple of days ago, over the weekend, I think it was, I do not know Saturday, I was outside -- I am actually redoing our kitchen right now. So I was outside cutting some tile to put them on the floor and my neighbor across the street, she is an elderly woman, very you know, she is a large woman, large elderly woman, I think she is about 80 and I saw her fall, so I ran across the street and I thankfully I was you know strong enough. I actually picked her up off the ground you know 200+ pounds of dead weight is not easy to pick up off the ground you know, it is easy to dead lift. I mean I dead lift like I do not know over 300 pounds, but when it is a person that you are picking up off the ground it is a little bit different. So anyway, it was kind of cool, but so it makes you feel better like you know, you probably have a similar story when you help somebody else and it makes you feel good about yourself you know. I feel like that is why we are kind of here on earth is to help humanity, help other people. It kind if just you know, evolves us spiritually I think, but anyway, so I also take that into my business you know, I believe that your business and your personal life should not be separated you know. Your philosophies that you have in your personal life should also be you know, kind of infused into your business and so one of my core philosophies in life is to help other people, to always put other people first, number 1 because it makes you feel good and number 2 because it always comes back to you in (inaudible 4:57.8) right. You always get more like you know, there is a saying you know, if you want to get then give, right. You know, I mean, it is very true. If you want more money you know, give more to charity. If you want more love, give love. If you more health, I do not know how you can give health, I do not know if that is a good example, but you know what I mean. So you know, I want you to think about your business you know. (inaudible 5:25.9) you know what would happen if maybe a customer came to you, just think of you know, I kind of blanking here on a specific example, but what I want you to think about is what are you doing in your business that puts your customer or your client first above your business, above your profit, above anything else and puts them in the center seat you know. I just truly believe that that is the way that people should be running their businesses is you should always look out for your customer or client because what happens is not only are you going to impress the hell out of that person. You know, my clients, when I told them that they are like oh my God you know, I cannot believe you know requesting that we send you less money. They are actually not doing it, we actually found a worker on them and helping them with another part of their business. So you know, that is another thing actually I did not lose the money, but I gained also their respect too, but you know, think about how this kind of reflects in your business you know. What are you doing in your business. Are you reminding people that they have a guarantee you know. That is kind of an example of putting your customer first and saying, hey look, if this does not work for you, you know, I do not want you to use it, I do not want your money because it did not deliver value to you, right. Same thing with your services, maybe you can offer a guarantee on what you do or you can offer you know, whatever it is or just keep helping them you know. That is kind of like what I do with mine. It is a little bit different when you are putting your time into it, it is kind of hard to give a guarantee because if you could spend you know, a month of your time, then you know, give all that money back, it is kind of sucks. So what I do is I basically just keep helping people you know what I mean like I keep delivering value until I have at least made up what I charge you know. That is kind of like my minimum goal that I go for is to at very least, you know, break even. I never ever, ever, ever what a client to feel like they lost money you know. That is the worst possible case scenario in my business. Think about what you can do in your business you know. What can you do. What resources can you give your clients or customers to help them get better results. What guarantees can you put in place. How can you restructure your product to your service so that it focuses on the customer and by the way customer and client are interchangeable here, so that focuses on your customer and getting them results rather than getting you profit okay, think about that for a minute. I know this is hard you know, I have -- you know in my past, I have been in situations where kind of -- the only thing you think about is profit because you know, you need it, you need it to pay the bills and that kind of thing, but what you have to understand is money in this world is not created until you deliver value. So you have to put value first in whatever it is that you are doing. Whatever it is that you are selling. In every interaction that you have with your audience, you need to be delivering value first and then you get to reap rewards after you deliver the value, okay. So I want you to think about that. You know, just look at this throughout your whole business you know, tear down your business piece by piece and say, okay, you know, in our marketing, can we deliver more value. Can we put the customer first you know, when you are writing a copy, it is all about the customer. They do not give a shit about you. They only care about themselves. Please understand that. Good example of that, actually with this -- bring me back to the big win that I got from this client. So, just kind of prove this point. So they had upsell so they go through and there is kind of a process you know, they joined the business they go through an upsell process blah, blah. So they have I think there is like 5 different products they can buy that they have the option to kind of upgrade their purchase, right. So they had their upsell sequence and place. We came and we look and what I did was I -- they have a salesman, so I called the salesman and I said, hey, walk me through the process you know. Walk me through what sells and what does not sell to your -- to these people that we are serving like what makes them tip, what makes them buy, right, because this is the guy that, he has direct access to the mind of the customer. He has been talking to, I mean, you know, hundreds and thousands and thousands and thousands of them. I think they do maybe 2 no, I do not know, a couple of hundred leads a month. So he talks to a couple of hundred leads every single month and he has been doing it for years, right. So I knew that he had kind of direct access into the mind of the prospect. So I asked him basically what made them buy you know. And so we rewrote the upsell using that kind of language. We focused on the things that made them buy which I do not know if I can go into the detail, it is just confidentially reason, I might give it away. Basically, it was fear base right. So when these people sign up, it was a corporation kind of thing. So it had to do with taxes and you know, being compliant with their corporation and you know, things like that. So we kind of you know, put the fear (inaudible 10:55.9) essentially and said, hey look, if you do not do it this way, your you know, you can pierce the corporate veil, you can get in trouble, you can get your you know, your corporation kind of stolen away from you if the IRS audits you, they can come and just blast the hell out of you, that kind of thing and so we talked about that and it made people realized that if they did not have this certain tools that this company sells that they were putting themselves in a lot of danger and what happened was we look at the stats, it ran for about a month, we looked at the stats and the new upsells are converting 40% higher, right, and that is value per visitor. So there was -- I do not remember the exact number is on top of my head, but essentially what happened was, out of the -- I think there were 6 upsells. Out of the 6 upsells, 1 or 2 of them converted roughly the same and the other 4 one, right. And what happened was the conversion rates were only up -- it was roughly like 15% or 20% or something like that, but the overall value per visitor was up 40%. So what happened was the products that were more expensive were the ones that we got big boost in conversions on it. So they were more expensive so it drove the average order value up. It drove the you know, the value per visitor up because they were the more expensive product, so what happened was their old copy was not explaining enough. It was not explaining you know, why they needed to spend whatever like an extra $50 or $100 or whatever it was you know, to protect themselves and my copy got into their core you know, the resident dominant resident emotions and sold them on the fact that they had to protect themselves, right. And that is what happens when you understand your customers, right. Again, everything in your business needs to revolve around the fact that your customers are first okay, and like I was talking about before, you need to look at every single aspect of your business from your ads like I said and then in your copy, this is especially important. In your copy, the more you understand your customer, the more you are making about them, the more you are going to sell whatever it is that you sell, okay. That is what my gift is, is I can understand people. I can get inside the minds of your prospects and I can do this very, very quickly. I was just actually on the phone with someone about 1/2 hour ago and you know, I was talking about you know, how I have a whole bunch of meetings every single week and I have to get on the phone with people and in you know, 10 or 15 minutes. I have to full understand their entire business, right. But you know, I think I have just a natural kind of talent for that. I can talk to somebody and understand exactly what is wrong in their business in a matter of a few minutes, a couple of questions you know, and that is just you know, I think my brain is just trained to do that, that is my you know, unique ability and it is because I am always thinking about the customers. Why is not this resonating with the customer. Why is not this you know, what is wrong with this. What is not the customer kind of going for this. What is wrong with it. Is it the price, is it the copy, the offer, is it you know, are we hitting the wrong emotions, whatever it is. Okay, so that is your copy. Then you have to look at, okay, with your products. Are your products really geared towards getting the best result for the person you sell, right. And you can actually come up with new product ideas when you start thinking more about your customer. What do they need. What are their frustrations you know. What are the challenges they are having in their business and it is going to help you think about new things that you can give them. So you are adding more value and you are also adding a new product. So for example, I just came out -- we just launched, in my side business where we teach guys how to dress better. I put together this awesome badass course about how to save money when they are shopping, right, because I realized that yeah, this guys wanted to dress better, that was their frustration. They did not feel confident, they were looking to be more attractive. They did not know you know, whatever, what colors match and what accessories to go with this and that and all that and we have a product for that, but then I realized, you know, the biggest problem here you know, pretty much anybody can look good, like if you have enough money, you can look good. You just go hire somebody and say, hey, you know, make me look awesome. So then I realized, okay, well these are young guys so what is the problem here. They do not have enough money to be able to buy the nice clothes that impress people, that make them feel good about themselves. So, I figured out and I spent a couple of weeks, a couple of months figuring out ways to save money and I came out with this really badass course about how to save $25 to $50 plus percent on everything that you save and actually it does work that way by the way. It is freaking awesome. I am so pumped that I brought it out. The feedbacks were incredible so far. That came from thinking about my customer. Put my customer first in my mind thinking about them and thinking about how I can help them and serve them, alright, and then you know, think about every other case, not just your copy, not just your products that you have, not just the ads that you are running, but also things like how you treat your customers, your customer service, your guarantees, your refund policy or warranty whatever it is in your business. I want you to put your customer first, okay. Yeah so that is it for today. I actually have to hop off here because I have another meeting coming up in a few minutes, but let me know what you think about this. Did you like this? You know, did I make you kind of change your thought in any way. I want you to just sit down you know, whatever your kind of way to relax is, whether -- I like to go outside and have a cigar and a glass of Bourbon and read or just sit and -- we have this really gorgeous trees you know, a view behind our house going into the woods and I like to sit and just look up the trees you know, and it helps me get into like a flow state, just relax and my mind starts -- it able to kind of just calm down and that is when the ideas come because you know, the ideas typically do not go when your mind is going 100 miles an hour. The ideas typically come when your mind is able to relax for a few minutes, alright. So go and sit and relax and think about ways that you can serve your customers and your clients better. Do not beat yourself up if you do not have any stories like you know, the one I just told about you know, telling my client they should stop paying me you know, make that happen you know, if you do not really have anything like that and you have been kind of slacking on putting your customers first and you have been putting yourself first, then you know, right now is the time to change it you know, do not kick yourself for doing it, just start it now and change it. Let me know how is that goes for you. Let me know if there is anything that you change in your business. And as always, you know, if you like this podcast, if you are getting a lot out of it, I would really appreciate it if you share it with your friends and most importantly review it on itunes. All you have to do is just go to jeremyreeves.com/podcast and that all kind of bring up the things on itunes and just go and leave a review and when you do, just tell me that you left a review and I will send you, I have a freed PDF, it is 101 Conversion Tips. So it is basically, I kind of break it down by each stage of your sales funnel and it is a whole bunch of different conversion hacking tips if you will that help you improve your conversions throughout each stage of your sales funnel, and I am going to give you that free if you leave us a review. That will help us kind of grow the audience. You guys must be talking because like I said last time, or maybe the time before, the audience for the podcast has basically doubled over the last roughly 2 months or so. I have to look up at the stats again, but yeah, it has grown pretty significantly. I am going to start doing facebook ads I think. So that is pretty exciting. So that is it. I am out for today. I will talk to you soon and again, shoot me an email, let me know if there is anything that you are going to be changing in your business as a result of thinking about your customers and putting them first, alright. I will talk to you soon, bye.

In today's episode we dig into the mind of Melinda Chen. Melinda is a MASTER of high-ticket selling... whether you're selling products, services, or anything else! We discuss how to get in front of your perfect target audience, how to make yourself stand out and get the attention of the "higher ups", and how to then close the deal! Plus she even critiques one of MY promotions I'm about to launch to get in front of high-level clients. Enjoy!   Resources Mentioned womenmakingbigsales.com Want To Work With Me? Visit http://www.JeremyReeves.com or email me at Jeremy@JeremyReeves.com Enjoy! Transcript Jeremy Reeves: Hey everyone, this is Jeremy Reeves with another episode of the sales funnel master podcast and today I am interviewing Melinda Chen and we are going to be talking about how to kind of reach and make sales to really, really high-ticket clients and I think it is going to be a fascinating interview and you know, basically, Melinda has -- she is a founder of Women Making Big Sales so to just give you a little bit of background about her. She has 15 years of background in corporate sales, and in the past 5 years, she has actually reached 8 figures in terms of her sales track record which is unbelievably impressive. That is a lot of stuff to sell in 5 years. Now she actually helps entrepreneurs. She specializes in helping entrepreneur’s sell and get in front of hard to reach or hard to access decision makers and to find those big you know, kind of whale clients that we all want to get in front of and not only get in front of, but actually have the you know, the authority and positioning to actually make a sale to because -- we will get in to all the reasons why we should be doing that, there are about a billion all of them which we will go through, but Melinda, how are you. Melinda Chen: Yes, hi Jeremy, I am very good. Jeremy Reeves: Sounds good. Sounds good. So I did a really quick you know, intro of you, just to kind of give everybody a quick little background, but tell us a little bit about your story you know, who you are, who you help, what you do, all that kind of good stuff. Melinda Chen: Yeah. Sure. Sure. I really started selling. I go into trade show since I was age 15. I grew up in a very entrepreneurial family and my parents they have got their business. So by the time I started knowing how to speak English because I was an Asian descent, so by the time I was speaking English relatively well, my dad figured, oh perfect, she will be the perfect translator for business meetings and go into trade shows. So he take me to trade shows and I loved it. I love the energy. I love all the creativity that came with it. So that is when I decided to keep doing -- keep staying in business and keep doing sales. Then I graduated from the university. I got my first job as international sales manager and that was really my official sales job, selling educational products to agents around the world, Brazil, Korea, Europe, and I have really realized that wow, there is a logical (inaudible 2:29.4) about sales especially when you are dealing with people who has got a 20 years of experience in sales and I just graduated from university. So I was like, 22 like fresh meat to these sales agents, right. And then I started really reading lots of books about sales and I did a lot of cold calls. I did about you know, throughout my whole sales career, I have done about 5,000 cold calls. So really, just to refine those sales skills and eventually master my own art of selling and most importantly is that I really felt -- I love the challenge of getting the really hard to reach big clients and the decision makers. So right now, I help entrepreneurs reach those client and sell to big client. Jeremy Reeves: Awesome. Yeah, that is really cool. It is a very unique background. You get started really early. That is awesome. So you know, what start with because you know, everybody, anybody listening to this and I also want to say, a lot of this is going to apply most of it is going to be the most relevant to anybody in the service industry, but if you are selling any kind of product, this is also very, very, very relevant. For example, you know, I have been thinking a lot of my clients that you know, they are selling whatever, a couple $100 products, but then one of the things that I helped them with is implementing something like you know, somebody’s -- their highest sales is like just a $500. One of the fastest ways to grow your business is putting in -- I called it a freedom offer you know, because you only have to sell a couple of them to give yourself freedom. So I always look and say, okay, what can we -- can we take your highest priced even if it is a product or service whatever it is and 10 times it gives something you know, so if you are selling your highest price is $500 what can we sell for $5,000 you know and so if you are in that position or if you want to be in that position I also want to make sure that you are paying really close attention to this because what we are going to go over covers all that to. It is not just that you are in the service industry. Melinda Chen: Oh yes, definitely. Jeremy Reeves: Yeah. I want to give that a really quick kind of disclaimer just so people are not saying well I am not a service provider, so therefore, you know, this is not going to be relevant to me and even if you are selling products you should be have some kind of service anyway so you know, it should be relevant to everybody. So the first thing I would like to start with is the advantages you know, what are the reasons in your mind for going after these you know, these big high-ticket clients versus going after you know, going after the lower quantity buy higher quality clients versus higher quantity and lower or you know, lower price but more clients. Melinda Chen: Yeah, I like to tell people that -- I understand if a lot of people when they started out and they want to go for that, those low hanging fruit, but you should always target big clients because especially if you have a product, and there is a lot of things about I mean it depends on whether you have online product or actual physical products, but the (inaudible 5:33.9) scale is very important especially when you have physical product, you said, oh, I am just going to sell things cheap and sell a lot of quantity, but you get to work with big clients. The cost to acquire small client is actually a lot higher than cost you acquire big clients because the cost to acquire big clients takes a lot of relation building. Yeah, it does take a lot of time to build that relationship, but they tend to be more stable. There is a lot of -- if you can shape your business the right way then you get a lot of repeat business, but if you are working with small business, a lot of times, you know, they tend to be a little bit more unstable, so depending on the clients or the business industry you are in, but you would reach a (inaudible 6:18.9) after small clients. So how do (inaudible 6:21.7) after small client. A lot of times, either you do advertising, the marketing. So you are basically giving a lot of money to Facebook, Twitter, and linkedin. They love that. I mean social medial platform, they love this you know. They love small entrepreneurs keep doing advertising with them. (inaudible 6:40.0) the cost to acquire small client proportionally actually a lot higher than getting big clients. So a lot of small clients I understand that or small entrepreneurs I understand that they might say, oh, I want to start off you know going after smaller clients, but you should always keep in mind that you have to go for big clients for you to actually make that significant freedom if we were talking about or profit because eventually you have to stop wasting your money on small clients, your money and time on small clients. Jeremy Reeves: Yeah, and you know, that actually comes back -- I have been talking, actually the last couple episodes. I cannot even remember off the top of my head if they are live or not. I remember recording them. I forgot if they are live or not, but one of the things that I have been talking about recently is, how much more valuable a repeat customer is, like a higher value customer, because you know, the first time you sell a product or service, you have all that cost that goes into acquiring that you know, the client or the customer and then, but then the second time, you do not have that cost you know, so all of your marketing cost is only in that first kind of you know, the acquiring of them, but not the second time or the third time or the tenth time. So you know, your profit margin is going way, way up as you work with them longer and I think bigger clients are much more in the position to you know, you are going to get not only bigger first time projects, but repeat projects because they have more going on you know what I mean. Would you agree with that? Melinda Chen: Yes, definitely. I mean we can talk more about big clients and how the psychology of big clients, but definitely you know, it is the repeatable business is one huge advantage to working with big client and they tend to have very small circle of the people they work with. So most likely you can get referrals to other big clients. So just think about your business, do you want to keep having small client and they refer you more small client or would you like to have one big client and they are happy with you and they refer you to other big clients, and you know, I tell a lot of small entrepreneurs is that if you do not do it right now, 6 months from now on or a year from now on you still be chasing after small clients. You still be working 10 hours a day trying to go after those small clients if you do not go after big clients right now. Jeremy Reeves: Definitely, definitely. So you know, what are the things like I can hear people listening to this and say, yeah, but you know, Melinda, it is really you know, it is really scary going after these big clients, you know, I am -- maybe you know, maybe they do not have the experience or they have the experience, but they do not have the confidence you know, in themselves, in the results that they produced to go after these big clients you know, so what are -- you know, how do you overcome that like, that fear you know, to going after these big clients. I remember you know, when I, I mean this is years and years ago, but when I first started going out to bigger clients you know myself, I remember having that kind of trepidation you know that nervousness of oh my God, what if one of them actually says yes, you know what I mean. How do you help your clients overcome that fear of actually kind of getting started. Melinda Chen: Yeah, well, I called it a big client muscle. I see myself a little bit like the fitness coach. What we are teaching a lot of times is, it is not necessary revolutionary, but it is like trying to get fit you know, you have a step-by-step process of how to get fit. The same thing with (inaudible 10:22.3) training is that we have a step-by-step process. So you know what to expect. You know that okay, today, we are trying to get a leads and (inaudible 10:30.5) are the few activities we are doing to get a lead and we focus on the activities themselves and also we start by doing it. So we take baby step you know, today, yes, we understand. We are not trying to call the biggest client today and then ask for a business, but we are going to (inaudible 10:48.7) with some really influential people today and that just go by talking to them, propose your value proposition and share your ideas with them. So slowly -- I think it is almost like when people step into a dark room, they do not know what to expect, they do not know what is in it, spiders or you know, mouse, whatever. People naturally get scared, but you know, if you turn on the light and just show people that you know, there is a step-by-step process and also you know, just take baby step, the fear to selling to big clients will naturally reduce, but I also like to share with you is that I being a corporate sales for 15 years and the reality is that I sell every single day and when I send an email to a client, before I send it like I am excited they have like he is so going to love it. This is a great offer why would he like it, but the moment I press that send, I am like, no, he is never going to write me back. Jeremy Reeves: I have had an exact experience. Melinda Chen: Oh, it is like you are so excited like, oh I have got great idea, he is so going to love it, but then you pressed it and there is the doubt of fear, but the reality we all have it and the difference is like I still do it, I still have that, no I said, when I (inaudible 12:08.0) to see oh, I am like, why the heck is the CEO going to reply to me, but now, I recognize it. I said, well, it is only natural. Melinda, you always have this kind of thing. You always think about it, go walk around, call your coach or call your -- the people you work with and you know that you are going to feel better 2 days from now. Just you know, let it sit and so I think that fear is only natural because it is (inaudible 12:33.6) and I am not going to sugar coat it and say listen you know, you are not going to have fear selling to big clients, the most realistic way is that you will have that fear but the difference is that you are going to now you realize that everybody has that kind of fear one way or another and it is just simply recognize it and then just let it sit and say, okay, let us wait for 2 days and let us see what happens and at the same time you know what to do in terms of the next step. Jeremy Reeves: Yeah, and you know what, in my career with the people that know all the things that I do, I am just kind of known as someone who sees the fear, faces the fear, and then does it anyway. My mom, every time I tell her like things that I am doing that are like you know, semi-crazy, she is always like, Jer, I do not understand how you can actually get pass the fear you know, and for me, it is kind of trained because I just always done it. I am someone who you know, I just do not care, you know what I mean. I have a very thick skin I guess, but you know, but I was not always like that. I remember starting off in my career and I mean it was nerve racking you know, it is horrible, but the more you do it and you realized, hey, things did not go so bad you know, even in the case like this, it is like you know, you are afraid of what they are going to say, how they are going to react you know, they are going to tell you that you are worthless or you know, whatever it is that you are afraid of, it never happens you know what I mean. It never does and it is just that sense of being able to feel it and do it anyway you know, and then just sit on and see what happens you know. Melinda Chen: See what happens and then you know, I think especially when approaching big clients you need to build a relationship and then the referrals, the introduction. So basically, you need to get in the circle and the fact that you know, you have already build that preparation, you have already had the preparation and you got introduced and then it is a softer contact then you know, we are not talking about just cold calling the CEO. So to really have you know, just slowly getting to this entourage it also ease up the fear of selling to this person because eventually you will start to feel that oh you know, I think I kind of know this person because I have done so much preparation trying to work with this person. Jeremy Reeves: Yeah, definitely. You know what, I can tell you from personal experience that, in fact, actually this just happened today, somebody emailed me requesting to be I guess on the podcast and I can actually tell I was so impressed because she started off the conversation by, hey, I just read this value and then I read this and I love how you talked about this and this and this and I listened to a podcast, I loved how you brought up this topic and blah, blah and I could tell I mean it seemed like she (inaudible 15:35.7) 3 hours of research and I was so impressed because normally it is dear sir/madam, you know, blah, blah it is like really, you know, they get deleted instantly. So I think a lot of is just about doing research and even if I think that overcomes a lot of anxiety that you have like when even if they can tell you are a little bit nervous when you first get in touch it is like hey you know what, they actually did the research and it almost, it almost creates like sort of like a (inaudible 16:08.1) like you almost -- if somebody you know, get in touch with you and you can tell they researched you and spent a lot of their time really putting a thought and effort into whatever it is a call or an email or direct mail, whatever you are doing, you almost feel obligated to at least give them you know, a couple of minutes to hear their you know, their elevator speech. Do you agree with that? Do you think that is you know, kind of part of what happens is how people react to that. Melinda Chen: Oh yeah, definitely. I agree with that 100%. The one of the best strategy that I always used is show do not tell, and show by I mean we are constantly doing this communication, a lot of people asked me so how do you show without telling. I mean when you are emailing then you automatically telling something, but this example when you mentioned about the person trying to pitch getting to your podcast is a very good example. In fact, they are showing that they are the person who would do the hard work. They would do the research. So when approaching the client, I would tell people you know, I mean, there are a lot of different ways and process, but one of really great way to talk about it is talk about their competitor. If you know the name, the decision maker of you know, obviously, you are trying to work with this person, but you (inaudible 17:22.1) in the email conversation you not casually mention the decision maker of their direct competitor then it is showing, very quickly showing that you know that you (inaudible 17:33.6) you know that inside out of the industry. So (inaudible 17:36.4) that kind of basically doing the research, a lot of research before the call to show that you know, you have done research about this company and about this client and you understand their business priorities. That is worth a lot more than telling them oh here is my valid preposition. Jeremy Reeves: Yeah, I love that, I love that. Actually, we are going to talk about a campaign that I am putting together right now, it is actually on my list this week to finalize. I have like 6 giant boxes of things I am going to be sending out to people. Yeah, we will talk about that in a couple of minutes, but yeah, I mean it really goes right along and actually, I actually so -- let me bring it back to an actual thing that I did, this was, maybe 4 or 5 years ago, and there was -- yeah, I think it was about 2010 or 2011 something like that, give or take. And there was a really kind of heavy hitter in my industry that was looking for a copywriter, so my thought was, alright, this guy, I know that a lot of other copywriters are going to see this so how do I standout you know. How do I make myself so he gets my message and it is like oh my God, I have to talk to this person. So what I did was I got to know his business. I actually made him a personal video to him, it was not like, oh I made you a personal video and then it is the same thing to everybody, it was actually like, I actually address them by name. I talked about his website and it was a video. I put it on a page and then I send him a big giant like 3 foot 2 mail and then you pull that out, a big piece sheet of paper and it was like a message on there with the URL and then he went to the you know, to URL and it was a video of me talking to him. And that client ended up being worth, I think it was about $120,000 over 2ish year period. And I think you know, I remember he told me he was like I was so impressed you know, you made a video for me specifically and he actually showed his entire office and he said, guys, this is the stuff we need to be doing you know what I mean. Yeah, I agree with the you know, the more you talk about like just not sending out you know, blank you know, kind of just general messages. I mean, it is really, just a marketing principle you know. We are heading you know, in terms of personalization you know, I have so many tests that I have been doing in my clients with segmentation, personalization, and the more you can talk specifically to that person, whether it is a high value or not, the higher your sales go and I think it is especially important with you know, with these really high techie clients when you are going after you know, the really like the decision makers you know in the companies. Melinda Chen: Yeah, yeah. I think especially the decision makers and that is why there is you know, there is, right now a lot of well going back to a lot of people talking about social selling and how you -- you know, it is going to replay selling itself. I think it presents an opportunity because there are more and more people. They are trying to automate everything but if you can really prove or you can contact these big client and using a lot of personal touch and then a lot of research, I mean we are in this age that there is so much information just right out there publicly for us to grab, you get to pick up important information and show it to this big client, it is so easy to stand out because everybody is trying to automate and everybody is just trying to just do the easy way and there are a couple of you know, so many things that we can do just simply stand out. Jeremy Reeves: Definitely, definitely. So let us talk about how you actually get in front of clients, so you know, you did the research, maybe you actually you know, maybe I do not know, you make like a spreadsheet or something like that of the clients that you want to reach out to whatever your kind of prep work is, and then you did. You have your list of let us just say it is 100 people you want to reach out to or 50 or 10 or whatever it is, let us just say 50, just so it is a manageable number. So you go, you do your research on all of them and then it is time to actually get in front of them. So what do you recommend. What are some of the things that you have done either yourself or your clients or whatever to actually get in front of the client. Do you -- you know, do you send cold emails. Do you just call them. Do you do direct mail, you know, what are some of the things that you guys do. Melinda Chen: Yeah, well the first thing I like to highlight is that there are 2 different role, and today we are targeting with the entrepreneurs. I think it is very different if somebody is a sales person like a B to B sales person or you know, or just general sales person, all they have to do is sell you know, I can say, you know pick 100 names, 200 names and she was your sale target, let us call it, let us you know, use softwares, Twitter, Facebook whatever to connect with your big clients, but I think you know, with your podcast, I think we are addressing those people who are entrepreneurs and who do not have you know 7 hour a day to just sell. I mean we have other things to do you know, it is not just selling although it (inaudible 22:45.8) the most important aspect of business, but you got to do the operational side, the (inaudible 22:50.4) existing clients. So what I would recommend the first most important thing, the absolutely most important thing for an entrepreneur or solo entrepreneur is that should be very target at in terms who you want to sell and the reality is that you cannot target a 100 big clients at one time because then there is no way that you are going to provide personal -- I mean, then it is a give and take, I mean you will be able to provide some kind of personal, but it is never really that personal kind of attention to those big clients. So that is one thing I really cautioned is that do not target 100 clients. If you have like a list of 100 then try to narrow it down and then usually if you have that list, what we build is, we called it 2 x 5 formula. So the two, the first two is the prep work, the prep (inaudible 23:45.2) work as absolutely especially with the big clients, use your 100% of your energy to bind the introduction into this client. So in fact, I would recommend -- personally, I would recommend the first 1 or 2 months focus on building relationship with their entourage and then also we create you know, connection map, it is like a mind map, except it is a connection map, whose connected to whom because regardless of what industry you are in I mean I have sold around the world as I mentioned before South America, North America, Asia, Europe whatever industry (inaudible 24:19.2) different industries. Once you are talking to the big, big clients they all know each other. It is a very, very small world. So go dig into the linkedin profiles. Look to you know, first of all, obviously, the first thing is you have to make sure what target, either you are targeting you know big time speakers or you know, big buyers with certain industries then really dig into their linkedin and Twitter. See who they are connected to. Most likely is that those people they always use similar service providers. For example, you know, if you are social manager (inaudible 24:55.4) try to find who are the big PR managers they are working with, because most likely they are working with the -- I mean you are already working with some of the big clients (inaudible 25:04.7) that everybody kind of just what you know, especially big guys, they like to keep their (inaudible 25:10.8) and they like to keep working with similar people or thing, same group of people. Big clients are extremely (inaudible 25:18.3) so what I would recommend is that build that connection or relationship map. So just take the -- take linkedin and use any mind map or other kind of mind map on the website, there is one I loved and then start drafting this relationship map and figure out what kind of a (inaudible 25:39.4) always go to. Who do they should work with. The service provider (inaudible 25:44.8) always work with then start building relationship with the service provider first. If you want to focus on startup companies, incubators, is there any big name incubators in (inaudible 25:56.5) you know somehow you could provide value to and those are usually what I would really recommend is to connect with these people who are the (inaudible 26:06.8) of influence with people you want to target because the moment that you build trust with them then I mean this is what happened now when I went to get another client is they close on the people I know really well and interest you. I give them a call and say you know, here is what I am thinking you know, here is a few ideas I have for the upcoming project, what do you think and then we start talking about industry. And what do you mean by talking about industry, basically, you know, we are going to share (inaudible 26:31.7) who might be interested in this, who would this project be useful to. So this is extremely you know, extremely important thing is fill that relationship map and then start to provide you know building values. So that is it. We are back to 2-5 formula so that you would be creating at least 2 soft contact with the decision maker and then we do the 5 official contacts and why do I -- instead of saying, oh, do we cold email this decision maker or do we send a cold call or things like that. I want you to tell people try to (inaudible 27:12.4) at least 5 different contacts. So it could be a simple I mean you know, we all know this you know, simple like on Facebook or you know providing some kind of value or maybe meet with the person in the networking or bands and things like that, but the moment you build that 5 then you know that you are -- you know, your whole sales relationship is not going to rely on one simple sales phone call. Jeremy Reeves: Okay, got you. I love that. Melinda Chen: You know, so keep you know, (inaudible 27:38.8) formulate that and focus on the first they know you, like you, and then trust you and then slowly build -- you know fill that before you even talk to the person and maybe I am pessimist but I say most likely the first time you contact this person he is not going to say yes to your offer no matter how great your valued proposition is or your elevator speech is. So plan 5 different contacts so that you slowly bring the client to the final sale speech and it is a very simple way but also just simply have that plan out will ease people’s mind about selling, about you know, oh, you know, he is definitely going to say no, but you are not asking him whether he would need to (inaudible 28:24.3) have this officials sales meeting yet, you are simply saying, hey, you know, here is the quick information about me or I thought this would be interesting and that will be it. So no pressure and once you have the process you are not going to continue focus on this one specific client, but you do this with other clients and then slowly build that relationship. Jeremy Reeves: Nice, yeah, I love that. So as you are building, as you are providing these people value, you are getting to know them, they are not going to -- there is no resistance, there is no sales resistance because there is no sales you know at this point. So they are starting to trust you. They are starting to kind of understand you, you know, you are familiar to them. When and I know this is kind of a generic thing because there is no like oh you know, you do it 4 days after the first or whatever, but if like in general, when is the good time to start then transitioning from okay you know, we kind of built the relationship to you know, transitioning into the you know sales mode you know so to speak. Melinda Chen: I think when -- this happens actually this sales mode or this transitional mode, we would be planning it right at the beginning. When people are trying to figure out you know, what kind of client they wanted to focus and what their value proposition is, I always tell people it is not just the value proposition, in fact, trigger events that is a lot more important than the value proposition. I am not saying that you are not providing value. I am hoping that you are providing a legitimate value to this client because if you are not, you know, that is never going to work from my experience. You got to be providing some real benefits to big clients, but also, the trigger events. What it means that right before at the beginning is that every industry is seasonal. So you have to plan what seasonal about the industry you are targeting. My favorite example would be the product base companies, Christmas shopping season, it is a hectic season and even big clients there is always something late about their planning you know, either there are 2 PR. I have worked with PR companies that PR agent they were able to get big clients because they just simply target the fashion company that did not get into the Christmas shopping list on magazines. Jeremy Reeves: Got you, okay. Melinda Chen: So if the trigger events, what are the trigger events that really impact the industry and if you can really focus on that then when you are building (inaudible 30:57.9) like and things like that once the trigger events hit and you have already planned it ahead of time you know what are the important things, a lot of times you know, incubators you know, startup companies there is time to apply for incubating program. There is speaker, the speaker seasons. Coaches, there is always sales season. So you have to know your trigger events. So once you build that relationship now you got your benefit and you got a trigger event, then you find the people who needs help during those hectic season who are late doing the things that you can offer then it becomes a very natural we are not even selling, you are just calling you know, and say, Hey Jeremy, I know the important day is coming up and I have not seen your information, your product on any social media what is going on. Jeremy Reeves: Nice. Yeah, and I actually use that approach in a similar way, but slightly different way and that I am really good at taking what people already have and finding the holes in their marketing and then filling those holes. You know, for example, one of my clients, I reached out to him and he had like a monthly you know membership program and I just reached out to him and I said, hey, his name is Mark and I said, Hey Mark, I have never seen you know, anything on your website like trying to take people from your monthly program to a yearly. I am like you know, what would you say, what if we you know, what if I do a promotion for you and just simply taking people on your monthly you know program and offering them a yearly plan and you know, I would not charge anything and blah, blah, just be percentage of the people that upgrade you know, and it works you know, and he was like okay you know, there is no risk in it for me, you are doing all the work, I never thought of that idea and it sounds like a good idea because it was actually good timing because he need it like a patch infusion to reinvest back into his product. He is very like techie kind of thing, say he buy a whole bunch of equipment, stuff like that. You know, and we did it and it was a huge, huge success you know, he made a ton of money. I made a ton of money and it was awesome. So it is a similar thing like it was -- it was not really a seasonal thing, but it was a like a weakness I guess you know you can call it in his business you know, but yeah, I love that you know, there really is, there is a lot of -- you know, most businesses have something like that even if you know, could be seasonal, a lot of businesses are seasonal or it could be if it is not seasonal, it could be something like that where it is more of like a weakness and you just kind of fill that gap you know. Melinda Chen: Yeah, I love -- I mean there is nothing more than calling a client and say that and listen, do you know what your competitors are doing right now. You know and then that is just a very simple and again you know, it (inaudible 33:53.1) it does not feel like you are selling the person, but you know, you are really trying to first of all provide the value and have this in cycle conversation and people at this point the big clients are going to figure out that you know, you are not just trying to always repeat it your value proposition and then just go through the same thing. You are really providing insightful information about the industry they are interested in and let us face it, big clients are very competitive. They love to know what happens with their competitors, so it is a great conversation breaker. Jeremy Reeves: Yeah, definitely. So let me ask you this. Have you ever tried and this goes back to my promotion that I am about to test out probably next week I would say, because I am going to finalize it this week, but then I still to do all the research and all that stuff beforehand. Have you ever tried anything with direct mail to reach out big clients? Melinda Chen: Direct mail, I have never -- I mean I have done a lot of cold calls. I have done direct mails, I do not know how many (inaudible 34:57.6) out but probably in a smallest scales, I have, I would not say I have the most success with, but yeah, I have done it. Jeremy Reeves: Yeah. So what I am doing basically is I am putting the other list a very you know, a very targeted list, I know the market really well, all that kind of stuff. I mean I could probably list off you know 30 people off on top of my head then (inaudible 35:26.1) send it out to. I got to do like 10 weeks, but basically -- yeah, yeah you know, just kind of you know, put it into our current you know, kind of marketing plan that we are doing every week. So what I am doing is I am doing a thing called lump email and I have this -- I came up with -- I bought these treasure chests right and they are like 5 inches long I do not roughly 3 inches high something like that, I like to have fun with Mark. Those are all the boxes that we got by the way, I bought 100 of them and you know so they came in like -- Melinda Chen: You must have a pretty good warehouse. Jeremy Reeves: Well, it is actually in my basement. Yeah, so there are all down there and I actually gave 1 each to each of my boys, I have 2 and a 4 year old, so they each got a treasure chest you know, and so basically, what I am doing is building a list of people in a very specific you know target audience that I have already gotten results before you know, a lot of people in that industry already know me that kind of thing and I am sending it to them. Now, my audience is going to be a little bit different than like really high like super high-end corporate you know, where there is like you know, the hierarchies like 85,000 people you know, mine are typically you know somewhere between -- yeah like between like 5 to 20 employees you know, in that range because a lot of -- you know, this industry, they do not need tons of employees to you know, to go up into like that. You know my target is mostly in 7 figure range you know, that is kind of -- even like once you hit like $10m it starts getting a little bit too high because then they are starting to get like full-time copywriters and stuff like that. So what I am doing is you send in the treasure chest you know, in the mail with a letter from me inside the chest and then there is a little lock on it with a key and everything and then we made this whole like story, awesome story and the value proposition are the you know, the offer is basically you know, instead of like, hey you know, call and let’s do a project. It is essentially like, Hey, you know, we are tying in the whole treasure chest thing to you know, you have revenue that is kind of buried beneath the sand and I am like you know, let us get on to quick 30-minute call, I ask you some questions and I will help find some of that revenue for you without mentioning like doing projects together anything like that. What do you think of that approach? Do you think I am missing anything? Do you think I should add anything else and you know, it is a little bit outside of what you normally do. Melinda Chen: Well I first of all, I do not really know your business but who are those treasure chest addressed to? Are they directly addressed to the founder or the marketing managers, the founders. Jeremy Reeves: Yeah, the founders, yep. Melinda Chen: And the value you are providing you basically just asking them that you know, you would like to set up a 30-minute call with them right. Did you write any case studies or what competitive did and then what I meant is that big clients or I mean we are not talking about just corporate clients but the successful people, they are very money driven and I do not know in your letter or inside the treasure chest if you have some kind of thing to you know, you can talk about case study and just very quick you know. Did you know that after speaking with somebody and we uncovered because the whole point is about uncovering right and convert a specific amount of missing profit. Jeremy Reeves: Yeah, so what I am doing, I actually guarantee them that I am going to show them how to increase by a certain amount and then also the weather itself is going to be like you know, like who I am and why I am getting in touch and all that is 2 pages and then I am going to have a another 4 pages just of case studies, just 4 like straight pages of all case studies, more for just like kind of overwhelming proof you know what I mean. Melinda Chen: I mean, obviously, they know you personally already. Are these people, they already know you? Jeremy Reeves: Yeah, they either they know me, a lot of them have probably heard of me. Most of the clients that I worked with in this industry, when they get in touch, they have heard about me from usually one of their competitors because like you said, you know, a lot of the people in the same industry know each other, they talk to each other, they masterminds together you know, that kind of thing. So they have either heard of me somewhere. A lot of them read the same blogs and podcast things like that and so they have heard me on air and so they have -- most of them will have if not all, will have at least some kind of recollection of me you know. Melinda Chen: And how do you plan out that following up. Do you plan on sending a quick email or just a -- Jeremy Reeves: Yeah, and that is one question I actually did not even think of that until you were talking about linkedin before. That idea, if you heard me typing before, I was actually writing down the idea. So that was, I kind of just (inaudible 40:54.2) as you were talking was send that out and then a couple of days after I send it follow over them on linkedin and say, hey you know, I send you package a couple of days hope you got it you know, if you have any question let me know you know, whatever. I have not quite thought through the linkedin message yet, but yeah, probably on linkedin, a lot of the people I am probably already connected with you know, that kind of thing. Melinda Chen: Okay, and then do you -- I am assuming that you want to make this. So this is -- you really want to have as dramatic impact as possible right for this. I mean it would not hurt that you know, for me, I mean it is already a very unique idea, but if -- because I do not know the kind of service you will be providing, but if you really want to build that kind of expectation, I would assume that you are going to send this out to the founder. If you are sending this addressing directly to the founder, it does not hurt to really start on if who else will be involved in this decision making. Jeremy Reeves: Yeah, that is a good idea. So most of them, I would say probably 90 I mean easily 90% plus of the time, when I am talking to these clients on the phone it is the founder themselves because again you know, again, it is not my kind of sweet spot is like you know, the one the $10M range you know, but it is not like a big you know, like I just did a project for $300m company, but that was a very rare you know, project. So most of them are somewhere the range between like $500,000 or like $10M or so you know and then yeah, so it is you know, it probably will go to the founder, there might be some exceptions to that like for example, the client that I got a couple of years ago that I mentioned earlier that ended up like the secretary got it but then she passed it to him you know what I mean. Melinda Chen: Well, I mean, what I would do because and you still want to a lot of them I assumed that they kind of still know you and then you want to really bring forth that like I mean the trust would probably go into the case study and the letter you are writing and especially your online presence and your website, but at the same time, you want to really bring forth that like and know you kind of factor. So it would not be a bad idea to really figure out who might being bought in this decision making. I mean, it does not mean that they will make that final decision, but for example, if they have a couple marketing people, they really work with social medial, people they work with, send a quick email, right before you send this and say by the way, I am about to send really cool stuff to so and so. Just want to let you know it is going to be pretty cool look forward to hearing from you and you know, just get people talking to make sure that it is not going to be something that is going to be dismissed or what is even more -- I mean we can talk more after the call. If you really want to get even stronger impact is that you cannot even say that and listen, I am about to (inaudible 43:53.6) it is going to be a limited time offer because I only have not much time, but I am sending this not only to you (inaudible 43:59.4) also to the competitors. That really boost your authority because you are really doing this something big. He wants people to start talking loud. Jeremy is -- he is launching his marketing campaign rather than just get it, okay, I mean it is a great idea, do not get me wrong. It is really much better idea than sending email, but if you really I mean, since you have already spent so much time you know, creating this marketing thing does not hurt to start. Also, send quick message or linkedin to anybody who might be working with them or to them just say, hey, listen, I will be sending you know largely my marketing campaign. I look forward to see how you -- you make it casual and say, hey, (inaudible 44:41.8) to everybody listen, everybody is going to get and feel free to laugh at me or you know make it you know, make it so that we still (inaudible 44:51.1) you build that like and trust. I mean you have already come out with somebody who is a bit daredevil. You said you will always love to try something new. Make sure they know you and then all of the sudden that is really personal because everybody is like I do not know what Jeremy is coming up with, but he is coming with something and we will see what it is and then most likely we (inaudible 45:11.0) Facebook or linkedin response you know, have fun with it and then you can talk business. Jeremy Reeves: Nice, yeah I like that. I like the, I think that is very good advise because it is you know, it is kind of the same thing you know, a lot of times I used things like text messaging you know for like automated text messaging. So for example you know, one of the things we do with webinars are -- let us just say that the webinar starting at I do not know at 2:00. You can send people a text message or like 130 and then it is like, Hey, quick reminder, you know, the webinar starts in half hour and that boost response rate you know because you are kind of just getting their attention and it is a similar kind of concept with that. It is different but it is you know, it is kind of similar project. I like that. I actually -- Melinda Chen: Yeah, and then I mean mostly especially if you really have to (inaudible 46:02.4) with it, you probably get a couple (inaudible 46:05.3) of you trying to fit anyway. Did you see (inaudible 46:07.1). Hopefully, you get a couple of short messages back and say (inaudible 46:13.3) and people always love to have a little bit of humor, I hope, some (inaudible 46:18.1) and then yeah. Jeremy Reeves: Yeah, and especially my clients, I have a lot of fun with my Mark. I mean I you know I go out drinking with a lot of them and so I really have a lot of fun with my clients and I have actually turned down clients because I did not like their personalities. You know, -- Melinda Chen: No, I get it, I get it (inaudible 46:37.4) if you do not have the right vibe it is just never going to be a long lasting relationship. Jeremy Reeves: Definitely, definitely. I like that and I can definitely because you know, a lot of them (inaudible 46:45.3) I am going to know their business is and that kind of thing so I can make it send them a really personal message even before they get it and then they are like what the hell is he going to send me now you know. You know, I can even put it like if they have kids you know, something you know make sure you give it to your kids after you are done looking at (inaudible 46:59.9) or something like that. Melinda Chen: Yeah, exactly I mean then they really build that expectation and they might be asking their receptionist for that package of, making sure that the reception does not just burn it by (inaudible 47:12.7) or something. Jeremy Reeves: Yeah, yeah. I should put that on the package, like do not open in front of your children, something like that. That message may be interpreted in different ways and -- but yeah so thanks for that. I hope everybody enjoyed -- I did that not only because I am curious myself to see how would you take your concepts because the way you approach is totally different and I always like we are talking about before the call, I always like to take different concepts and different ways of doing business and they kind of meld in together you know and I think that is really hopefully everybody got a lot out of that me and you just kind of going back and forth and brainstorming on that. I know I got a lot out of it. Melinda Chen: I have a lot of fun so, I mean I am going to try this you know, treasure chest thing not on my kids but on my clients. Jeremy Reeves: Yeah, yeah. It is a really, really good kind of fun way to get in touch, get in front of people you know, it definitely gets their attention you know what I mean. Alright, so with that said, you know, is there anything else that I did not ask about you know, I feel like I let you down if I did not ask you a question you know, something that you want to make sure that people really understand you know before we hop off. Melinda Chen: I think one thing is that there is -- we are back to have this process is really for entrepreneurs and I think it is important to recognize that focus -- a lot of times theory and what we could do is one thing, but really to have your daily habit and then creating the sales routine is a lot more important than how you want to approach it. I mean it is one thing to have one interesting marketing idea, but as you know, you are going to follow up and you are going to continue following up. So I think that is a lot more important and challenging for entrepreneurs when we are managing so many things. Yeah, that is basically it and if people want to reach me, they can visit my website womenmakingbigsales.com. I do not just work with women, but I am a woman. Yeah, and they can also visit my Facebook page, Women Making Big Sales. Jeremy Reeves: Sounds good. Yeah, and I will make sure all those links are in the show notes. So yeah, if anybody is interested in reaching out to Melinda you know, to get in touch, work with her you know, kind of you know, start a relationship, then you know, just kind of click if you are listening in your phone or whatever, just look through the show notes and they will be in there. Yeah, that is it. Melinda, I really appreciate you coming on. It was a fantastic call. I know I learned a lot. I actually took a whole bunch of notes. If people heard me typing that is what I was doing. Yeah, I really appreciate it. I think it is a very -- it is a very important topic because it is something that anybody and you know, most people listening to this should be doing and if you are not, I mean, you are -- you know, I can tell you from personal experience you are missing out on a lot of money and also not even just you know, I know we have talked a lot about like the money aspect of this, but it is also stress to I mean -- yeah, I mean I do not know if you have this experience, but I know like in my business the more money somebody pays me, the less of the hassle they are you know what I mean, because it is you know, a lot of people and you know, it make sense because like if you are really struggling for money and you give somebody whatever it is, a couple thousand dollars, whatever it is and that is a lot of money to you then you are going to be really nervous and anxious about it and that is you know, I mean it is totally normal, but if you are you know, if you are a bigger client if you, you know, if you are doing you know, $50M in sales and then you ask that person for whatever it is, a $10,000 sale or $20,000 even that you know, the difference between what you are asking and their you know how much cash flow they have available so much bigger that they do not -- they trust you more you know and it is just you know, I have known in my business I mean the project show so much more (inaudible 51:32.3) you know what I mean. Melinda Chen: Yeah, they did not know what they want and there is always very clear vision of how things need to be done instead of oh, I do not know, I am thinking of changing this, oh I might change this you know, I am going to -- and then suddenly decided they are not going to work continue with this project and then you have that stress out, oh no now I have to look for another client. So you constantly chasing that to small clients and again, paying advertising money to Facebook, Twitter, and linkedin and again, they obviously still very happy about this so. Jeremy Reeves: Yeah, you are making (inaudible 52:01.8) Alright well hey, I really appreciate coming on. Everybody make sure that you go to womenmakingbigsales.com again that link will be in the show notes and yeah, thanks again, we will hopefully see you soon. Melinda Chen: Thank you Jeremy. Let me know how it goes, the treasure chest, bye. Jeremy Reeves: Yeah, I will, bye.

Today we discuss one of my FAVORITE new tools to design and build all your pages throughout your website and funnel. PLUS... how to get my copy templates (normally $197) for FREE when you decide to invest in it! We'll talk about the ease of use, how fast it is to get new pages up, plus the test I conducted on page speed which was insane. Enjoy!   Resources Mentioned clickfunnels leadpages ontraport optimizepress optinmonster jeremyreeves.com/thrive Kinowear Thrive Themes Thrive Ultimatum Want To Work With Me? Visit http://www.JeremyReeves.com or email me at Jeremy@JeremyReeves.com Enjoy! Transcript Hey guys, Jeremy here with another episode of the sales funnel mastery podcast and today this is going to be a nice, quick, short episode. What I am actually doing is I want to talk to about actually, an affiliate product. I know that might sound kind of weird because I never really promote affiliate stuff. That is why that should, kind of show you that this is actually really important and kind of big deal for me. So I just found a new tool that I think everybody listening to this is going to be really excited to hear about if you are not using it yet. It is called Thrive Themes, right. So Thrive Themes is basically a page builder. They have a whole bunch of different stuff for like -- they have -- there is Thrive Themes which (inaudible 0:59.6) pages. There is Thrive Leads which helps you know, to help you generate leads like popups, things like that. There is a content builder, that is kind of part of the page builder and then you know, you can build landing pages on there. Actually, it seems that you can put on your website like stuff for your blog and all that kind of stuff. So the reason that I want to highly recommend this is number 1 because I just did some tests, testing it out, and the test came back ridiculously awesome. Number 2 I am actually going to give you guys one of my products if you sign up through my link which is kind of cool and what is kind of cool is I am actually giving you -- when you look to through my link, I am going to give you my copy templates which we sell for $200, $197 technically, and the cost for Thrive Themes as of the time that I am recording this at least is $19 a month and (inaudible 2:02.2) so it is like whatever that is like $240 or whatever that is or I can say $228 technically. I just did some good (inaudible 2:12.0) 6 o’clock in the morning without my coffee. I am only like a quarter of the way through my cup of coffee and I did that math that fast. See that. So anyway, let me tell you a little about Thrive Themes and why I am recommending it so highly, right. So all of us need to build pages for our funnels. We all need to build pages. It is a pretty you know, it is a pretty important kind of thing. So I have used all kinds of -- I am typically not the one actually designing the pages. I have designers to do that. A lot of my own stuff I design because I have a pretty good eye for design and a lot of times it is kind of faster just getting it done myself than hiring out. So I will spend a night or whatever and (inaudible 2:53.6) pages together. So I have used pretty much all of them. I have used clickfunnels. I have used you know, optinpress. I have used leadpages. I have used ontraport thing. I think it is called ontrapages you know. I have used pretty much all of them. I mean you know probably 2 or 3 more beyond that and this is by far, head and shoulders above anything else that I have used before. For me, you know, there are a lot of different reasons that I really love this, but for me, the 2 biggest things that I kind of notice was, number 1, the speed of actually building the page. You know, I am building pages way, way faster than I did. I have used optimizepress up until this point. So I am now officially not using optimizepress. I am officially not recommending it in a big, big way, right. So again, number 1 is speed of actually building the page. The really big thing with this is speed of the page load. So I actually -- I have had a you know, optimizepress is, it is good for building pages. Lately, I think they have gone way down hill. There is all kinds of bugs that I am finding, I do not know if anybody else is, but I am finding just tremendous amounts of bugs with them. I actually -- I kind of have a theory that it is because it is one time price and not a yearly price because when you -- when you have a SAS business that is you know, a one time price, it does not allow you to pay developers to continually you know, add bug improvements and you know, things like that, right. So it is kind of just a theory. Anyway, so I actually did a test. I built 2 of the exact same page every single part of it was the exact same page. I tested the page load in optimizepress and it was 11 point -- I am forgetting, it was you know, give or take a couple of milliseconds here, it was 11.5, right. So 11.5 seconds took to load that page which is really slow. I did the exact same page in Thrive Themes I mean exact same backgrounds, exact same text, exact same literally everything, same server, same website, everything. 3.3 seconds. So let that sink in for a second. Thrive Themes was 3.3 seconds. optimizepress was 11.5. Huge difference and I have even notice the difference even when I just load the page myself, look at it or whatever, I have noticed a giant, giant, giant difference in it. So that was my kind of big thing. So if you are using optimizepress or using any of these other things and you have been kind of thinking about switching or if you are -- if you do not have one yet, and you -- you know want to check it out, go to jeremyreeves.com/thrive and that will take you to my affiliate link and if you end up buying it, just let me know. Send me your receipt and just email your receipt and I will send you my copy templates. So that is a $200 product. For disclosure, you know, obviously, you know getting an affiliate commission if you buy Thrive Themes that is why I am giving you a $200 product, but yeah, I will send you all of those and it is actually funny because my templates in there -- I did 1 version of like a you know, document.doc and another version in optimizepress and I am going to be switching all of those over into Thrive Themes. I am also going to be switching my entire website in the Thrive Themes. I have actually -- for Kinowear, you guys know about Kinowear, by side business. The sales page for that I switched over. I am already seeing an increase in conversions on our main product just by you know, adding the you know, putting the design into Thrive Themes I am guessing because of the speed boost you know. So a couple of another things about Thrive Themes that I like. If you want to go and do that now, you can. You do not really have to even listen to the rest of this. You can just hop off and go check out Thrive Themes you know by yourself and go see what they have to offer, but there is a lot of different things that comes with it, and that is why it is a little bit more expensive than other page builders and it is because it comes with a bunch of different things, right. It is not a theme, you are getting -- it is Thrive Themes which is like the actual theme of your website, Thrive leads which is a list building plug in, so it is like you know, you guys know that I recommend optinmonster. So I have not yet officially unrecommend optinmonster. I still love optinmonster, it is awesome. I have been talking to a client who uses Thrive Leads, they do not use optinmonster and I said like, oh well you know, does it do this, does it do this, does it do this, does it do this and she said yes to all of them. So I pretty sure it does pretty much the same things as optinmonster but it comes with it, so you do not have to buy another thing, right. And then there is a content builder, build your pages, even you can do landing pages, optin pages, sales pages, video pages, webinars, thank you page, you know, basically all the pages that you are going to need. They have it. They have a really good selection of examples you know, templates that you can start with you know, which is bad ass. I hope they get a market place soon that should be really cool. Maybe they do, I should ask them. I do not think they do that. Yes, so it is pretty awesome and they just came out with the thing called Thrive Ultimatum which is really cool. It is basically a scarcity plugin which I am actually going to be testing out. I will be testing that out actually next week because we are doing a launch for Kinowear. I am actually going to be starting to set that up probably Thursday or Friday. So anyway, that is you know, about Thrive Themes. A couple kind of things you know, the main thing here is the page builder which I really, really love and a couple of things about it, I am just reading this right from the sales page. Put it this way, I actually like this -- I actually like this product so much that I am thinking about building an affiliate site just for this. That is how excited I am about this product because I absolutely love it if you cannot tell and that is also why I am kind of talking about this on a podcast episode because I normally do not do that for affiliate products, but you know, I am doing this because the product is just totally bad ass. So the number 1 thing, it is built for speed. So there is automatic image compression you know, really lean, lightweight code that kind of thing, smart conversion elements. I have not really dug into that yet. So they talk about this thing called target focus area and it shows the authors most relevant to the visitor. I have not figure that out yet, I have not dug into that yet, so I do not really know what that is, but I am going to check that out. They -- let’s see, there is countdown timers, click to call phone numbers, I like that one by the way. The click to call, that is pretty call. Creating the pages are super, super, easy, it is just basically just go in and you have new page, you edit over Thrive Themes and you are done, you know. Super, super customizable. That is one of the things that I really like about it. There is in fact actually while I am talking, I am going to pull up one of my other pages here and I can actually kind of walk through it you know. A whole bunch of templates you know, you can (inaudible 10:40.5) like add all the various things that you are going to need in it you know, header or navigation side bars, footer or widgets, all that kind of stuff. You can have that under or not. Fully mobile responsive which is awesome, so that is cool. One of the really good things that I like about this is that the owner I am forgetting his name out at the top of my head. I was just talking to him to -- the owner is extremely proactive with updates and improvements and new releases and things like that. So in the past 6 months, after opening, they released 20 major new features updates and 29 releases that have like improvements and fixes and tweaks and stuff like that and just having it, I know -- I mean the thing is being constantly updated and they are coming out with all kinds of new stuff all the time. It is really cool. You can also add things on your pages like social sharing, extra -- a lot of replaces, a couple of plugins so like social sharing like I just mentioned. You can get rid of your kind of social sharing plugins which also increases page feed. You can put in related post, optimize image galleries, fun managers. You can actually upload custom fonts into it when you build your pages which is really cool. So I am actually going to go into my thing here. So like when you are in here, I do not know if you guys are familiar with the whole like kind of you know, click and edit type of thing, but -- so there is, you can add in paragraph text, word press context so like from your blog, image button, icons, credit card icons, custom HTML, custom CSS, a content container and that is where like you, what you can do that is really cool is you can make this content (inaudible 12:32.1) put something in it and then save it as a template, so like if you have I do not know, a call to action section, like an order form section on your page, you can save that part of the page and then reuse it in the rest of your website. After you build your first page, you can build a bunch of these templates and then reuse them throughout your website which is awesome. Content reveal so like if they click something it will kind of reveal the content. I have used that a lot over the years. Star rating so you know, you can just add stars like if you are coming out, if you are doing a book launch something like that. Let us see, content templates that is the one that you save. So like I have call to action section, FAQ, headline section, the footer, bullet section, the product introduction, testimonials, and who it is for so far. Column layouts so you can add you know, all types of different columns like half and half, 3rd, 4th, 5th, 1/3 and then 2/3 on the other side you know, vice versa, all that kind of stuff. So that is cool. Let us see, content box. So like you are at a content box, they have launch different kind of styles that you can use. Symbol boxes, same thing like icons and numbers, things like that, also share buttons, quote share. So for like, you know, Twitter if you are doing like a blog post or whatever, you can add that in there. Dividers, testimonials, call to action, you can put them in there. Guarantee box, widgets like a custom menu you know header or something like that you put it there like 2 seconds. Pricing table which I just used. Tab content, you can do that either horizontal or vertical. Feature grid, right. So you can figure them like 2 columns and 2 rows. You can do it like feature kind of grid if you have various features in the products that you are selling. I am going to get a quick sip of coffee here. Content (inaudible 14:25.3) I am not even 100% sure what that is. I have not used it yet. Tables, data elements, so like a progress bar, fill counter and number counters, things like that. Google map and (inaudible 14:36.9) so if you have a local like an offline business, you can put a Google map in there which is kind of cool. Countdown timer, responsive video which I am also going to be using next week. Table of contents, I am not really sure what that would be used for, but it sounds cool. Lead generation so like if you know, if you are doing lead generation on your page, post grid, comments, and that is you know, that is pretty much. Then there is a whole bunch of other stuff you can do that I won’t really get into right now, but you know, you can really easily change the settings on your landing page, at the background image. You can make it so that it is one of those things where you scroll down and the background stays and then the like text scrolls over it. It is kind of hard to explain if you do not see it, but you can put in you know, custom scripts on your pages. Let us see, all kind of stuff with CSS. You can do change (inaudible 15:33.4) in your fonts on the page. You can upload custom fonts which I talked about before. So basically, there is a million different things you can do and it is awesome. It is really, really easy to use which I really love because like I said, a lot of times you know, even though I write a copy I still have kind of a design sense actually from several years ago with one of my clients, this is way, way back really early in my career, but I kind of actually learned HTML and CSS a little bit and design things like that and just add someone who improves conversion you should understand design which all comes down to readability essentially you know. So I throw together some of my own pages and then also like when I get feedback or design back from designers, I can actually edit it from my clients which is kind of cool. Anyway, so I am not going to rumble on about this. If you want to check it out, go to jeremyreeves.com/thrive and that is going to take you to my affiliate link and to their page and if you end up buying it, just shoot me an email and I will send you my copy templates and they sell on the website for $200 so they you know, they are awesome. There are all kinds of -- there is prospect email, like there is email templates, there is webinar templates, there is landing page templates, there is sales page templates, there is you know, thank you page, I mean there is all kinds of different stuff. You can go check out what you get you know, in my products link on the website and I will give them to you for free you know. I am actually not even making that much. I think the affiliate commission is like I do not know, maybe $100 or something like that. So I am actually losing money, but I wanted to think of something that I can give people, right, you know, for now. I am actually going to probably create some just like a couple templates and not give away the full thing, but for now, until I do that, you guys are going to get the full templates. So you are actually, oh my God, even if you just want the templates just buy Thrive Themes and you get the templates for free. So it is an easy way to save $100 on something from me. So that is it for this week, I hope you enjoy this. Next week, we have a good episode coming up and yeah everybody you know, keep sharing this with your friends. I have noticed the podcast has essentially about doubled in the last I think about 2 months or so. So keep sharing it with your friends the uptrend is going way, way up and that is because you know, you guys are obviously telling people about it. So make sure you keep doing that, make sure you keep putting in those reviews, remember if you do a review and you let me know that you did, I will send you my 101 Conversion Tips and yeah, there is, you know, it will take 2 seconds if you are listening to it, you obviously like it, so do me a favor please. I spend a lot of time with this podcast. So that is it. I hope you have a good week. I hope you go check out Thrive Themes again, jeremyreeves.com/thrive and yeah, I will talk to you soon.  

In this episode we chat with Wes Schaeffer about how he was able to build a 6-figure recurring business, from scratch! We discuss all sorts of things including how he did it, the mistakes he made along the way, how he made himself stand out from his competition, and MUCH more. Enjoy! Resources Mentioned theSaleswhisperer.com Want To Work With Me? Visit http://www.JeremyReeves.com or email me at Jeremy@JeremyReeves.com Enjoy! Transcript Jeremy Reeves: Hey everyone this is Jeremy Reeves with another episode of the sales funnel mastery podcast and today I have on the line, Wes Schaeffer, and he is the sales whisperer. So we actually have -- we are going to kind of talk about his story. So really quick to kind of like you know, give you like a 5 second on review. He started the company called The Sales Whisperer in 2006 and kind of started off cold calling to get his clients and then he brought you know funnels and you know marketing automation and that kind of stuff into his life which you know, everybody here is interested. And in 2008, kind of got wrapped around with Infusionsoft and he bought the product and started using Infusionsoft and you guys know all about that and then he became a reseller of it and became their top reseller in the world, partner of the year in 2012, he wrote a book on Infusionsoft and then that led to his business kind of you know shooting off a couple different directions and then he wrote a second book. He has sales training CDs and you know, a new program that is coming out soon, and all that kind of good stuff and he did it all with inbound marketing, and working from home, he built a 6 figure recurring business you know, that kind of just goes you know. So that is what we are going to talk about. We are going to get into his story, get into kind of the nitty-gritty of how he did everything because I know that is what everyone listening is interested in doing themselves. So we are going to get in to all the good stuff. So Wes, how are you buddy? Wes Schaeffer: I am good. Thanks for having me on. Jeremy Reeves: Nice, nice. Yeah. So I found out that Wes is a very ugly man and had a pork chops tied to his neck when he was a child, so his dog will play with them. Wes Schaeffer: (inaudible 1:50.7) all my pictures are Photoshop you know. Jeremy Reeves: Yeah, so me and Wes had a funny little conversation before we started, but -- So Wes, you know, tell us a little bit more, go into a little bit deeper about your -- kind of how you get started in the entrepreneurial world you know, and that kind of stuff and then we will get into your business like what you are doing now and that kind of thing. Wes Schaeffer: Well, I was in the Air Force and I got out after 9 years and just want to go into sales and I want to get paid for my production not for my time and grade, right. And I jumped right into the world of financial services you know, being a stockbroker in the south and I mean I was just cold calling. It was just brutal, but I made sales and when you get those big commission checks it makes the brutal work be a little less brutal, but that job did not work out and that is a whole long sad story best told at a bar with a lot of alcohol and ended up bouncing around jobs. I would always succeed, but I ended up in high tech and there was a lot of turnover. I mean one time, I was 33% over quota. One of like 3 guys in the world that made my quota and was still laid off because in telecom sector and it is just you know, in early 2000s the dot.com residual just kept grinding down. I think at one point, after 4 years with this one company, I have been through 8 layoffs and 15 reorgs. It was just miserable and so I always had that entrepreneurial bug. I always had my fingers and things. I was trading stocks and commodities and options. I was flipping houses and rehabiting with people. I was just always have my finger and things and -- but I was still always trying to get better sales, I did not want to jump out on my own until I had a clear path. I had a wife you know, we had a couple of kids at that time and men by early 2000s, we had a 3rd kid, we had a 4th kid. So I did not want them to suffer, right, while I was trying to find myself, but I took a sales training class. It actually was a 12 week teleconference deal and I had to pay early. I had to pay like 5 months early before the class started because they have limited seats and so that started in early 2006 and it changed my life. And I ended up hiring that guy as a mentor, became a licensee of his content, estimated it was $10,000 and I was his first licensee, but I had access to him one-on-one and it changed my life. So by early 2007, I was on my own doing The Sales Whisperer and building the business you know and we had 5 kids at that time you know by then and my wife has always stayed at home 21 years now, she stayed at home. So I did not have you know a spouse’s income or benefits or any of that to cushion things, right. There was no safety net. And you know, and I made it work and you know, we get into the details, but like you said, you know, I started that in 2006. I bought a domain name at late 2006. You know it was funny I took that sales course in early 2006, by September 1, 2006, I knew where I was going, I bought the domain name by early 2007. I had my business license. I was doing conferences and I was making money as The Sales Whisperer. Jeremy Reeves: Nice. Yeah, I love hearing that. That is awesome. So I have a question for you. What is your favorite type of alcohol. Wes Schaeffer: Oh man, you know, I have evolved over the years. I was always a beer guy then we move -- we have been in Southern California for about 11 years and -- but I do not like the IPAs. Jeremy Reeves: Oh, I love IPAs. Wes Schaeffer: So we have been there 11 years and we live within 10 minutes of like 43 wineries and so when I was younger, I did drink a lot of wine, I like the whites but then I started really liking the reds, the big bold (inaudible 6:06.5) but I do not like those as much even more. So last several years I really been enjoying some good bourbons and scotches and you know, I just got this Bookers, it is a Jim Beam product, it is an unfiltered, uncut, right straight from the cast and it is a very high proof and I usually drink my whiskies like 1 ice cube you know, just break it up a little bit, but this you got to put a little water in it and what happens is, it ends up with almost like a sweet after taste. It is really interesting. So I have been enjoying that. Jeremy Reeves: Nice. Yeah, I actually like Bookers too. It is a good -- I actually had it, a couple of months ago and that was colder so sometime in the past, I do not know 6 to 8 months or so, one of our favorite restaurants that we go to was doing a -- they have beer samplers you know, like their flights you know, the one they call a paddle you know, they really give you kind of like a couple different beers. They did that for Bourbon and I saw it and the thing and I am like that is -- I know already you know exactly what I want because I am huge, huge, huge Bourbon fan. I used to be in a scotch more but I have been switching to Bourbon last probably a year or so, but yeah, Bookers was in there so it was really, really good. Sorry. Go back to business. So 2006, you bought and started The Sales Whisperer and then -- take us into you know, Infusionsoft and you became one of their top resellers in the world and so you know, what were some of the things that you did to you know, to do that you know, like -- because I know Infusionsoft they are reselling programs pretty competitive you know, I always see people it is funny like you know, you see in a group and it is like, oh you know, I am thinking of using Infusionsoft and all of the sudden you have like 50 Infusionsoft resellers, oh I am going to give you this bonus, I am going to give you this bonus. So it is pretty competitive you know. So what, you know, what kind of strategies you were using to kind of you know, break free from all that and kind of stand out? Wes Schaeffer: It was funny you say that because just this morning, I changed my pricing and I am just going to do one price and instead of a free kick start or 699 or 1999, I just changed it to $5000 kick start because I am tired of the noise, right, but that is what I paid in 2008. They only had 1 option, it was $5000 down (inaudible 8:54.4) a month and this is before the campaign builders, this is before the new email builder, really what you are buying was automation. Nothing was best of class except the automation and that was -- you could not live without it, really. I could not have grown without it. And so there is a lot of noise, but the you know, the way that I grew is I became a product of the product you know and I tell people to this day I am still the dumbest certified partner out there out of 4 or 500 because all these people they get into the nitty-gritty, right. They you know, to put it like a NASCAR terms, they are all chief mechanics, but I am the driver. Okay, I know how to drive that beast to his limits to win and people get hung up in this API call and HTTP post and SSL certificates and that blah, blah, blah and I am like why do you need this tool. What do you need it to do. Let us make it and go do that, okay. And so like I said, I became a part of the product, I used it. I supercharged it I did -- you know, when you start doing all this stuff right, when you start putting bells and whistles on your devices, on your vehicles, it may be cool that nitro boost is really cool until it does not work, right. Until it blows up and then it is like, oh my gosh, what cause that. And what happens too when you get all fancy like that is you scare away the typical user. So you show them this big soup-up beast and they are like that is really cool, but you know, I just take my kids at school, I go to grocery store, I go to the gym, I drive to church on Sunday, that is all I am looking for. No, no, no, look at this thing, you know, 750 horsepower, I am like, yes nice, but so by just using the product away it was meant to, I was able to speak to the needs and the fears and the wants and the desires of the average user. And then if they had any objections it was like, well let me show you how I address that right out of the box and I will show you when you order from me, I will show you how to do the same thing and then they are like, okay, cool. And it was just a no brainer. And so then over time, I created more contact. I wrote a book on it, but you know what, for the longest time, I had free mastermind call. You bought Infusionsoft from me, we just did a live call, it was an open Q&A and so it kept me in front of people. It kept me top of (inaudible 11:36.7) and so -- and then the word grew and then I would simply blog about what I was doing. I made simple, simple how to videos, right. Not this 48 minutes you know, Matt Daddy videos I mean 3 or 5 or 7 minute videos on how to do this little nagging thing that has stumped you forever, okay, because people we get too caught up in our knowledge. We think that, oh, everybody knows that. When in reality -- you know, you are an expert in your field and so not everybody knows what you know, okay. Not everybody knows the stuff you even forgot you know. So take the time to really break things down into their minute little details and so the cool thing is it gives you a lot of (inaudible 12:24.5) right it is not very onerous as well and you can bang out a 5 minute video in 5 minutes, right. And then do not get off crazy with editing in what not, just put it up there. You know, a friend of mine still says at this day I was making a video and I think our neighbor’s lawn guy came in you know, you hear a lawn mower and I am like, hey, hold on a second, I just (inaudible 12:46.3) up my cloths, my window, and I just keep going, I just left it in, right, because I am not a videographer. I am not an editor (inaudible 12:52.4) chopped it up blah, blah, blah it is like it would slow me down from publishing that video. You know (inaudible 12:59.0) horrendous yeah, you know I will chop it out but you know, me closing the window, great. Leave it in I mean it shows up my human being. People like it, you know, because -- so I produce content that people wanted to see and it was a content that I wanted to see. If I got stuck or a customer would ask me that over and over again or multiple prospects would ask me that, I will make a video about that. And then I grew. Jeremy Reeves: Nice, I like it. Yeah and Infusionsoft -- I have a, I use ontraport but they are very kid of similar play you know, they do a lot of same things, but a lot of my clients have Infusionsoft, so I have seen you know, I am not really the one that goes in and monkeys around that I know you know, how to use the automation not how to actually set it up you know, I have people to do that, but that is -- you know, how should be. It is not you know, I am kind of semi-technical guy you know, I know what to make it do, I just do not know how to actually you know do it, but I work with people who do. I tell them, hey, I want to make it do this and they do it you know. You know, Infusionsoft is a great product you know. It has got a you know with a -- the big thing that used to kind of drive a lot of people away was the complexity but with the whole -- what they called the visual builder, visual campaign builder or whatever. That is just like totally you know change the game with them. It is just so much easier now. So how did you know once you -- you know, you built this business and you know, you work from home. You do not have employees you know, it is kind of like the dream business that most people want you know what I mean. How long did it take you to get to that point? Wes Schaeffer: Oh man, you know, Infusionsoft -- so back in the day, they were paying at 20% commission. So in the very early days you know, you could not sell it direct or people could not pay that set up to me. They had to buy it from Infusionsoft then I got a commission on the upfront and then I got a residual commission. So you know, back then, 20% of a $300 a month actually or $60 a month, okay. So, you know, if you do the math, if you sell 100 of those, then you are going to make $6000 a month, okay. If you sell 200 of those, you are going to make $12,000 a month. Now that is assuming they pay $300, that assumes everybody stays, right, like no term you know, and obviously there is term and obviously there is a $200 version and they will run sales and you can get it for $250 and blah, blah, blah. So it took me you know a couple of years of steady selling to not only build up the upfront, so eventually, they change the model. They waive the $5000 fee, they did it for free for a little while and so we sold a bunch, but then people would quit because it was too hard to use before the campaign builder because they got no training you know, they were just like, hey here is the keys you know, to a 747 go get them tiger, you know. And it is like, no. So they get frustrated and quit. So then they came out with a $1500 kick start and a $2000 kick start and then kind of came back to the $1500 range and I am pretty much been there now for 5 years I guess. And so that gave us money to provide good training and so -- and then but because they changed it, then I kept the upfront. So for quite a while, I did everything. I would make the sale, I would do the onboarding, okay, and then I brought on somebody to help do some of the onboarding, but you know, if I am selling let say, 5 accounts a month, and I am charging $1500, well right there $7500 a month, okay, and then those 5 accounts if I am making 20% of $300, so there is $60 times 5, well there is $300 a month residual, okay. So you can start to see the math. I mean I was easily doing you know, 5, 6, $7000 a month upfront and then building, adding accumulative so $300 a month and then it was $600 a month and then it was $900 a month and so it build up you know pretty quickly and it just staying consistent like that but it was a lot of work you know. It was a lot of hours you know creating a lot of content. I made no outbound calls. I was not doing any type of PPC. I just make a content that people were looking for and they found me, but then I know how to sell, right. I would not overdo it. I would not pressure them and because I was a product of the product, people would opt in for a free report and then my drip sequence would drip on them and warm them up and send additional resources and then ask them if they like to talk again or hey, by the way, here is something you may not consider, go check this out. And then they were like, hey, this stuff really works and I am like, yeah, it does, you know and then the sale was just really natural and easy. Jeremy Reeves: Nice. So where did you go -- I know you -- you know, after Infusionsoft you know, what have you been doing since then. So that would -- you know, the whole Infusionsoft thing was kind of like when things started really you know, ramping up. They started kind of take (inaudible 18:40.5) and everybody has that point. I just did a -- I was listening to -- I forgot what it was, it was somebody’s podcast, I forgot. They were talking about Bruno Mars, the singer, you know. And they were talking about like a story and he was you know, like most successful people, you know, everybody wants this like, oh you know, they are so lucky that they are successful you know, they do not see the 20 years you know blood, sweat, and tears that went into that overnight success you know. And his is the same way and he basically like you know spent I do not know, I forgot how many years it was, but you know, a lot of years and a lot of you know heartache and all that kind of things, his family is poor growing up and blah, blah, blah and then within like a year and a half, he went from being not even known to hosting a Super Bowl you know what I mean, I mean not hosting a Super Bowl, singing at the Super Bowl, you know what I mean. And that happens a lot you know, there is always this one, thins one thing you know that kind of like, you do all this thousand different things and then there is something just clicks you know, and from there on, it is just like you hit and it starts skyrocketing even if the trajectory is a little bit different like you know Infusionsoft is where you started really kind of ramping up. But now you are doing you know, a whole bunch of other things you know. So what have you been doing you know since Infusionsoft and you know, becoming like (inaudible 20:06.1) a year and really getting that ramp up you know, what have you done since then to kind of keep up the momentum, keep things you know, kind of keep on pacing. Wes Schaeffer: Oh man, well you know, I did bring on some staff, they were not employees, they were full-time contractors and honestly, pretty much have brought on the last 3 years has screwed me over. It has been brutal. I literally would have an extra $200,000 in the bank if I just stayed in bed the last 2 years. I mean it is just brutal you know, people coming on and saying that they are good and not wasting money or getting distracted or just outright stealing my content and going off on their own you know, so you know, I have been trained by Wes and (inaudible 20:55.9) you know, I am just as good blah, blah, blah and so I was like well, and unfortunately, people will believe it and they do not know until after the fact you know. And so (inaudible visit) you know, you live and you will learn, but you know, the last year and a half I have also brought on other platforms so I did get certified in ontraport and did get certified in HubSpot but I am doing my own coaching and you know, I wrote another book on sales and marketing and deliver keynote speeches and I am coming out with a brand new sales training program called, Make Every Sale, because the one thing you got to be careful off is building your mansion on rented land, okay. So that applies with like social media marketing. I always say you got to have your own website. You got to drive traffic back to your own site but then I have too many (inaudible 21:54.7) Infusionsoft basket you know, I had too much in my income derived from a company that can and has and will continue to change the rules at any time. So they change the contract multiple times over the last 8 years, but for the most part it has been a fit in me, but it made me realized, I am not in control of this ride you know. I am just an active participant, a vocal participant but it is not my vehicle. So creating programs that I own you know, that make every sale program and my books and coaching programs, that is my focus now because I do have a good business that is running with the Infusionsoft in the marketing automation. So that is kind of like rubbing my belly, right, then I got a pat in my head and build the sales training and then I got to you know, do the next thing (inaudible 22:51.0) my foot to build the keynote speaking you know. So always you know, the worst thing you can do is get comfortable and get complacent you know, and it is a fine line you got to walk between making sure the thriving part of your business continues to thrive. So you have to give that enough attention, enough care and feeding and watering, but at the same time, you got to build that next income stream because the loneliest number really is one you know, if you have just one computer, 1 lead source, 1 income source you know, that will break, that will dry up, it just happens. Jeremy Reeves: Yeah, and you know, I actually have a pretty bad horror story with that one too. In 2011 or 2012 I do not know something like that, a couple of years ago, I was using -- that was when everybody was before you know Facebook was a big thing and it was when Adwords was you know, the big thing, but it was also in that time and I am sure you remember this. There is like this 2-year period where everybody just got like shun from Adwords and I had my whole lead generation like kind of system you know, was through Adwords, and it was you know, that was my one and then you know, I got the email, you have been blacklisted. You know, and I went from like getting you know being booked all the time from Adwords because I was like the only (inaudible 24:15.7) figure on how to make it work and all of the sudden it was just like goodbye, you know. What is ironic is that I got kicked off because I had too many testimonials on site. I was finding with them online. I am like actually getting people good results you know, but they would not even let me put disclaimers anything like that, but yeah, it was a big thing, but yeah, so I kind of hit that and then that is when I learned my lesson from and I think everybody goes through that too you know. A lot of my own clients and really successful people that I talked to, they have gone through that where they put all their eggs in one basket. The basket crumbled and then you know, they have to kind of rebuild from the ground up and then, but you learned that lesson you know. So speaking of that, you know. What are some of your other eggs you know, what is your funnel look like now for doing you know, some of the stuff whether it is you know, kind of funneling people into your Infusionsoft funnel or for your books or for your programs you know, how -- you do not have to go through everyone and like specific detail, but like in a you know, in a broad sense you know, what are you doing with the automation with Infusionsoft to automate your marketing? Wes Schaeffer: Well, so as I continuing to use Infusionsoft, but then you know, I did -- I expanded into other platforms, so instead of just being Infusionsoft you know, so now I am Ford, Lincoln, Mercury right or I added Honda and a Nissan dealership to my Ford dealership. So I can now help people with ontraport. Help them with HubSpot and then, I still have some good consultants that work for me that will do the fulfillment. So we will sell blocks of hours or project-based work to help people and I do not do it you know, I will help make the sale. I will make sure it is a right fit. I will come in and make sure it is staying on course and I will do some of the riding as well myself if people need it, but you know, so those are a couple of different components and obviously you know the (inaudible 26:19.8) but you are not going to get rich selling books unless you sell a Harry Potter, you know, but keynote speaking and then opening. I have had multiple different programs I have sold over the years with this (inaudible 26:32.6) every sale is going to be my signature program. It is going to be my signature umbrella, really, and under that will be different components kind of like the dummies series you know. So the book is going to be over arching about sales and marketing, but then I am partnering with specialists in PPC, right, or social media marketing, and so we will have segments you know, book based that will dive into those specific topics. So then I am just seen as an overall sales and marketing leader and then it will be -- hey, you know, whatever Wes is using I want to use it, right. Same way, I mean, Nike is no synonymous with golf you know, where 10 to 12 years ago or 15 years ago they were not, right, but they signed Tiger Woods, and then okay, well Tiger uses Nike, so I will use Nike. So the more I can become a leader just in the space, then the ancillary products will become a much easier sale, because you know, I can honestly show people. Here are tools that I have used to build my business you know, if you are in a similar situation, if you can afford these different products then they will probably help you as well you know, and it will make the sale easier. So that is the plan moving forward. Jeremy Reeves: Nice. So in doing that and kind of building your authorities you will call it. How are you doing now? Are you doing any paid advertising which I do not think you are, but you know, and if you are not you know, what kind of platforms are you using? Is it just organic kind of just -- word of mouth, are you doing you know, article marketing you know, podcast videos, which I know you are on a podcast, but you know, tell us a little bit about like the various marketing channels you know, that you are using to kind of gain that authority in the marketplace. Wes Schaeffer: Yeah, it is all been organic. A content driven, but I am starting to do some advertising. (inaudible 28:42.2) right now the day with my team. And that is one thing I just -- I do not know, I (inaudible 28:48.4) I guess I was fortunate because I could, but the marketplace is getting more crowded. There are -- Infusionsoft has a lot more aggressive in their marketing and paid advertising and a lot more partners that come in. So I have to master paid advertising and that is number one on my priority starting right now. So look for that there will be change and you will see my mug all over the place (inaudible 29:17.4) I will be (inaudible 29:19.6) your butt and following you around. To think I am everywhere. Jeremy Reeves: You should try -- we should go back to the pork chop thing and like put a pork chop around your neck. I have a funny picture of like a dog chasing you around. That will be awesome. Wes Schaeffer: Nothing is sacred to me, man. I will do crazy marketing. I do not care. Whatever it works. Jeremy Reeves: Yeah, you know what, I actually just launch a campaign this morning. I do not have any results yet because you know, because it has just launched a couple of hours ago. And the whole thing was around this concept that I came up with. From when you first get people into your funnel and like the first email you send you know, most people is very boring you know, and that kind of thing. So I came up with this email called -- it is basically use the email to assimilate, resonate, and then shock you know. So it is assimilate, resonate, and shock email. So if you like take you know the first words, the acronym that is ARS you know. I was going to do (inaudible 30:25.2) but I could not think of anything to like you know, make it (inaudible 30:27.9) So I am actually doing a campaign and you know, so of course, I am using that you know, in the Facebook campaigns and the clicker rates are insane. So far it is doing like you know, it is really -- I cannot really say what sales because you know only a couple of hours old, but in terms of like just you know, the first metric which is getting clicks you know, it is way, way above anything else that I have ever done because of that like shocking you know, kind of aspect to it you know. I am definitely going to play around more with stuff like that you know what I mean. Just have fun with it you know, like we are -- me and my team were coming up with the concept and we are throwing around different wording and things like that and I came up with that and like, nope. That is it. We are going with that and like we have a lot of fun doing it. We are laughing the whole time you know, it was really fun, and a lot of people are kind of scared to show their personality in their marketing and it is just a huge mistake because as you were saying like, I mean the marketplace is getting crowded and one of the best fastest way that you can stand out from that is by you know, showcasing your personality, assuming you are not some you know, tree log. Assuming you have some kind of personality, but yeah, I mean, that is definitely one area you know. As you are doing Facebook advertising or whatever advertising you are doing, I would definitely test out campaigns that get like just do like two of them you know, that are like kind of normal whatever you normally see and then do one that is totally off the wall. I know that is kind of how I am approaching mine you know. As you do that, test it out. Let me know how that goes to because it is kind of a theory I have that is just the way that marketing is shifting you know, number one to personalization which is, I mean that is not even a theory, that is enormous fact, and then number two is personality driven you know. And that is actually what my whole kind of report that I am sending people (inaudible 32:27.8) you know, but yeah anyway, I kind of stall your (inaudible 32:31.8) for a few minutes. Wes Schaeffer: I agree, yeah. I like doing crazy stuff. Jeremy Reeves: Yeah, you know, it is fun. Wes Schaeffer: Well into a degree as necessary, right. You got to be you know, the thing I always cover in my training is your marketing has to be congruent right. It is got to fit, you know. If you are a high price lawyer, you know, defense attorney or something you may not be able to get (inaudible 32:59.5) but there is a guy every time -- I used to live Austin, my mom is right outside of Austin and there is a dude that is still there every time I fly in, he has got a big billboard and it is the lawyer that rocks and this dude with I think he is a white dude with dreadlocks and you are like, well that is something I do not see every day, white getting dreadlocks and B an attorney that rocks with dreadlocks and running big ads you know. So he has got this big, big persona and so you know, when you show up at his office and the next time I go to town -- I need to go to visit him because I have told the story for years, but I bet he does not have Muzak playing and I bet he does not have plush carpets and granite everywhere. I bet it is a cool place you know. I bet he has got like a beer on tap in the office you know, but he is congruent, okay. That is his message and that is who he is going after. So I can make crazy ads. You can make crazy ads because we are just laid back dudes that are real and so and I would rather screen out. I always talk about disqualifying prospects. I do not want to qualify, I want to disqualify. So by putting it out there, hey, I am crazy dude. I have fun. I am human being you know, if you are just stuck up and arrogant, do not bother calling me because we are not going to get along. So you know, kudos you for doing it and yeah and I am going to be definitely playing with things like that because that is my style and it is the only way to cut through the noise. Jeremy Reeves: Yeah. Same thing with video too. I mean me and you were taking about this. In fact, actually, that is how the whole ugly and pork thing came up because Wes asked if this is an audio or video you know and I said it was audio and that you know, and then it kind of went into that, but I have actually been thinking about doing videos because you know, I feel like I am like, I am able to you know be transparent you know, I just kind of be myself like I do not really (inaudible 35:05.0) because I do not really give a shit you know. A lot of my friends they are like, how do you, you know, tell somebody like I do not care you know, like you know, I can like walk around in public with you know, like a (inaudible 35:17.5) you know and like walk through you know, and it is like, people are going to think you are weird. I am like so what, who cares, I am never going to see them again you know. So that is kind of just how I am so that is kind of like you know, changing my marketing a little bit is to showcase that more you know what I mean and video is just a good way to do that and it is a lot more fun too you know, but yeah, I mean I think that is a huge thing for everybody in this is you know, I mean I work with all kinds of people in different industries and it is not just you know like the whole expert industry like people in marketing. I mean it is like all the industries that I am looking at that is where it is shifting is you know, is transparency, trust, authority but then mixing that in with you know, having fun like personality-driven businesses you know. It is just a huge, huge shift that I am seeing because you know, I do not know why I shifted like that. I think it is because there are so many people and you know, the internet, it has made it so easy to start a business that there is so much competition that you know, that is just kind of the way things are going that you have to differentiate yourself in some way and just the way that is going out which is you know personality. I know I am you know, following people less and less if they are kind of just the same old same old message and you know personality and you know, that kind of thing. I find myself like if I am looking for my inbox pretty much everybody I am listening to has some type of very strong personality you know what I mean. There is really nobody that is just kind of like, ah, you know, blah, blah, blah like you know very boring unless their message is just like totally out of this world brilliant you know, but there is very few of those, but yeah. So I mean you know, we are coming up on time here. So you know we went through a lot of different things today. I hope everybody got a lot out of it. I always like to hear people stories and kind of what they went through to get where they are now and some of the mistakes that they learned you know, kind of have them you know, all your eggs in one basket was one of those you know, so tell us a little a bit, 2 things number 1 you know, what your plans are kind of moving forward which you are already (inaudible 37:38.4) little bit so if you want to go into a little bit more detail on that, kind of like what your kind of seeing yourself doing over the next whatever the rest of this year, the next couple of years you know, kind of what your vision is and then also you know, if there is anything that I did not ask that I should have you know, if there is anything that you really want to cover that I you know, I did not ask the question you know, go into -- go into that a little bit. Wes Schaeffer: Yeah, you know, it is just more of the same and what we talked about just really going bigger and broader. I have (inaudible 38:08.2) from paid you know in the beginnings because I did not have to and then it became because I did not understand it, and so I have to get out of my own comfort zone and dig in. To the large degrees well, I did so much with Infusionsoft and still to this day. We cannot run ads that say buy Infusionsoft you know, that goes against the partner in terms of agreement. So it kind of force my hand in that regard and I did not want to do services works so I just kept doing what worked, but now, to do sales training and sell more books and get keynote speaking gigs I am just -- I am diving in, but you are going to see me on more stages you know, I just spoke a week and half ago at the Glazer Kennedy super conference. I am speaking here in a couple of weeks in Vegas. So you are going to start seeing me out a lot more you know, I stayed home on purpose you know, I have got a big family, I like being home and I have turned down a lot of things because I just -- I do not want to travel, I do not want to fight the airport, I do not want to fight the all travel, but I do have to get out there a little more to get the word out, but I will be doing more workshops and things here. I want people to come to me and where I live is very nice, it is Temecula area you know, 43 wineries. It is really beautiful and it is very poorly marketed you know. So there is some great resort here. I mean we are an hour from San Diego an hour from Orange County, an hour from Ontario, an hour and a half from Palm Springs. So you know, the destination come out, learn, relax, go on hot air balloon rides and you know hang out with The Sales Whisperer right, that is (inaudible 39:54.8) you know, to build the aura you know, to build the brand you know, I always said when I was a corporate (inaudible 40:03.5) I told my boss I want to be the next Zig Ziglar you know and he died a couple of years ago and I truly feel like there is a void and I felt like I can help fill that and you know, so that is the long range plan. Jeremy Reeves: Nice, I love it. Yeah and that is an awesome thing -- I do funnel days which is a very similar concept to what you are talking about and they are really fun you know, I have not done any big mastermind things yet. It is kind of on my list of things to do but yeah I mean, Temecula that area is awesome. I go out to San Diego once a year and that whole just you know, like 2 hour region you know, give or take from LA is awesome you know, North and South of it. I actually have a client that lives up in that area, but yeah, it is a very cool area. I am in Pennsylvania so I always wish that I was on California, you know, especially after our weather last week here is horrendous. We got the whole week went without any sunshine. Yeah, it was awful. I felt like I was living in Alaska. Like, oh my God, but now it is nice and bright and sunny. I am actually going to go out and go for a run I think after we get off the call here. So yeah, so good luck with the you know, getting people out there. I know several people who have done it. I am going to do it and everybody that has done it, loves it, because you are getting paid to get people to come to you and it is a lot of fun and you know, everybody gets a lot of value out of it and yeah, so I have to recommend you, you know, add that to your list and make sure you get that on because it is an awesome you know, thing to do for your audience. So is there anything that you feel compelled to make sure that people know before we get off the call. Any kind of big question that I missed. Wes Schaeffer: No man, we got pretty deep you know. To everybody you know, the main thing is you just take action you know, pull one nugget out of this and go apply it to your business you know. Knowledge in education is worthless if you do not do something with it. Jeremy Reeves: Yeah, exactly. It really is. I know way too many people who have piles and piles and piles and piles of you know courses and then you look at their business, nothing is implemented. Hey man, it was a pleasure having you on. It was awesome to hear about your story. The last thing before we go, where would you like people to go to learn more about you, get on your list, talk to you about working with you, you know, whatever you would like people to do next. Where should they go. Wes Schaeffer: Yeah, just visit theSaleswhisperer.com and you can find everything there. All my social media accounts, everything then plenty of different free reports so really pick what interest you, you know, whether it sales or marketing or automation. I got all types of tools and things for you to get there. Jeremy Reeves: Sounds good. Hey it was a pleasure having you on. We will talk to you soon. Wes Schaeffer: Alright man. Thanks Jeremy.

In this episode, we discuss the top 5 most funnels fail to convert. If you're suffering from a low (or negative) ROI, these are the places you want to look first! Resources Mentioned jeremyreeves.com Want To Work With Me? Visit http://www.JeremyReeves.com or email me at Jeremy@JeremyReeves.com Enjoy! Transcript Hey, what is going on everybody. Jeremy Reeves here with another episode of the sales funnel mastery podcast and today is Monday, May 2nd and I am really excited for this. We have a lot going on this week. We are launching a new funnel actually on Facebook. I think I told you about that in the last podcast. I am excited about that. I actually did not even really start nothing is even created yet. We are doing a PDF to a tripwire and then you know, to essentially testing that with an upsell and then if that particular market focus works, then we are going to build out a whole funnel for it. We are kind of doing like a little mini test for it based on the you know, the test that I talked about in the last episode. So that is going on live this week, we will see how that works, see how that does, see if we need to make any tweaks you know, that kind of thing and then we will kind of go from there, but I am excited about that. It kind of goes right into what I am going to be talking about today and that is 5 Reasons That Funnels Fail To Convert you know. So in the last episode, I kind of talked about our last funnel that we tested really, really quickly that have like no thought into it and it did not really work all that well. The concept that we are testing did work, but the actual funnel itself did not you know, did not give a positive ROI on it. So it kind of give you like a glimpse into why that did not work. So I want to expand on that overall topic of why funnels fail to convert you know, because funnels have you know, the word sales funnel you know, the buzz word sales funnel has been around for I do not know a couple of years now. I have been doing them since like 2009, 2010, something like that, but you know the word really did not yet big until I do not know maybe like roughly 2 years ago or so. And there is a good reason for that you know, because they worked you know, it is just plain and simple, they worked, except sometimes they do not, you know, and that is when they are not done properly you know. And there are a lot of reasons why they would not be done properly. So today, I am going to cover 5 of them, okay. The first one is and really, probably the biggest one, is -- actually not the biggest one, but it is one of the bigger ones is that your message to market match is off, right. So if your message to market matches off so let me give you a quick definition of message to market match, right. So when you are selling something, you have to have, there are 2 parts to the equation. Just like you know, if you are going out and you are trying to pick up a girl, you have to have chemistry or a guy if you are a girl. You have to have chemistry between both people for that relationship to work. If a guy walks up to a girl and he thinks the girl is attractive and cute and sweet whatever characteristics he is going for, but the girl does not feel that same way back, that relationship is not going to work, okay, and vice versa you know, maybe that girl thinks the guy is attractive, but the guy does not think the girl is attractive, still not going to work. For that to work, for that relationship to work, both people need to be kind of like in sync with each other. They need to both find each other’s physical and you know, whatever, emotional, mental characteristics and traits appealing you know. They have to like their personality. They have to like how they look. They have to like how they act, all that kind of thing. And it is the same way. When you have -- if you think about that in terms of your product and then your market, you have to make them both be in sync with each other. So you can have a product, for example, in coming up with this new funnel that we are going to do, you know, what I did was me in my place, I wrote down -- I went outside, I have a cigar and I went out on my whiteboard out in my patio outside my office here, and I wrote down all the different -- I have my whiteboard out and I draw a line down the middle and I put PDF on 1 side and then I put tripwire on the other side, and I wrote down -- I think it was about a dozen ideas for PDFs for this, you know, for this new funnel and then on the other side, I wrote about a dozen ideas for tripwire. And then what I did was we kind of as a team went together and well me and main marketing guy, Sean, we kind of get together and we look at both sides and I came up with my top 3 of each of those. So I said, okay, you know, this PDF is going to be perfect with this tripwire you know, and did that 3 times. He did the same thing and then we narrowed it down to 1, right. And the reason that we did that was because there were some and I wish I had it, actually here it is, let me pull up real quick. So for example, one of the PDFs that I was thinking about doing was X number of ways to maximize revenue from your existing list, okay. So, you know, think about that, that probably sounds pretty good, you know. You have a list and you know, I was going to show you, you know, whatever 7 ways to maximize revenue from your existing list or whatever that was except if you did not have a list, right. That audience if you think about that who is that attracting, that specific example is going to attract people who already have a list. If you do not have a list and you are kind of in the beginning stages that is not going to attract you, okay. And in the funnel that we are doing, we are attracting people that are in the beginning stages okay. So that one may not be relevant, right. And you know, and then some you know, tripwires, let us see, like email segmentation templates I was going to do because the one upsell that we have is templates you know, copy templates and a big part of that is email templates you know, prospect templates and segmentation templates and buyers templates and you know, promotion templates, webinar templates, all kind of stuff like that in there. So, again, you know, email segmentation template is going to be a great tripwire for a segment of the audience, but not for a very you know, not for a beginning part of the audience and this funnel that we are going after the end game is not to get them into coaching or you know done for you which is normally what we are doing. The end game is to sell them our products, right, $500 or less. So there, in the beginning part of the market, they are not you know, I am not going after 7-figure business owners. They do not want that kind of stuff typically. You know, they want -- you know, the 7 you know, $500,000 plus are more looking for coaching done for you, that kind of stuff, whereas, $500 or less again, typically, looking for more information because they cannot afford the other stuff because you know, the business is not big enough, alright. So the message to market match is making sure that what you are selling matches what the market wants, okay, and you have to look at your market and understand exactly who you are selling to and then of course you know, with the whole message, that is the copywriting. That is all you know, I would not go into that. That is all obviously going to be relevant in our Facebook ads, in the landing page, in the you know, in the tripwire page, all that kind of stuff. Second one is adding too much complexity too early. So you know, if you have not heard this before I have basically 3 stages of a sales funnel and that is the foundational stage where you are getting the foundation setup. You have your unique selling preposition, your lead magnet, your core offer, and 1 upsell and like a buyer’s sequence to keep in touch with your buyers to kind of prime them for when you get more offers later on and keep them happy, get them good result, that kind of thing. Then you have your maximization stage, okay, and that is when you are getting in the things like segmentation and going offline and you know, testing and things like that, right. Understanding your matrix is a huge part of the maximization stage. Basically, what you are doing is you are taking your funnel and this is where you get more complex. You are really looking at your funnel and saying where are the leaks and you plug those leaks, okay and then in the perfection stage that is when you are getting up to 7 figures plus. That is more split testing. You already have all of the components of a sales funnel. You already have you know, it is all segmented the right way. You have all the emails in place. You have all your various pages in place. You have things like retargeting. You have things like behavioral triggers. All that stuff and then you are looking you know, you are going after perfection. So you are going after this is like the last couple(inaudible 8:56.4) where you are testing different positioning, you are testing different offers, different prizes, all that kind of stuff and this is what I do for a lot of my clients that are 7 figures plus on retainer. You know, is doing this kind of perfection stage, alright, but the point of this is know where you are in you know, in you know what stage, you should be in you know. If you are in a general sense, I like to say up to 500,00 or so you know, again, this is all you know, it is not like -- this is not black and white nothing in the life is black and white. So take this you know, with a little bit(inaudible )this is just like a general rule of thumb, but up to about 500,000 in sales, gross revenue, you are going to be your foundational stage. So you are going to be one to nail your USP. What is unique about you, you know, what is different, what is valuable about your business. You want to nail that. Nail your market, your message, all that kind of stuff. Five hundred to a million or so, you know, maybe a million and a half, you are going to really be focusing on your maximization stage okay and then after that, after a million and a half then you are going to go really focus on your profession stage because then you can you know, you can afford to hire somebody to do stuff like that you know. So the point here is do not try to make it too complex too early. Really nail your foundation. This is something I have been learning a lot lately with a lot of my clients is we really have to focus, take a step back and really just absolutely crush the foundation you know. I always like to say that you know, the wider the foundation as you scale your business you know, if you are looking to scale foundation is before scaling. Maximization is when you are starting to scale, so think it that way. If you are trying to scale your business, you have to have your foundation in place because number 1, you know, the wider your foundation, the more sturdier foundation, the faster you can go upwards before it starts to get shifty you know. If you only have a tiny little narrow foundation and you start to scale, you are only going to be able to go up you know. Think of this in terms of a house. You have a tiny little you know, a couple of feet foundation, you are not going to be able to go up very high before the house starts you know, getting all shaky and wobbly, right and falling over. So make sure you absolutely nail your foundation first before you start worrying about crazy stuff and getting in the multiple segmentation and behavioral sequences and like all that kind of crazy stuff that you read about. In most cases, that is not necessary. You really just have to -- just nail your foundation. The third one is failing to understand your prospects buying cycle, alright. So it is really, really, really important to have congruency and relevancy throughout your sales funnel, alright and this goes back to the message market match, right. These are fairly similar. You know, going back to my example, with my lead magnet, you know, I am picking people in a different part of the buying cycle. If I were going after 7 figure business owners, I would be talking about segmentation. I would be talking about behavioral triggers and sequences. I would be talking about you know advance copywriting, things like that because that is what is going to attract the 7 figure plus bigger business owners to get them into my you know, done for you services, alright. Our done for you is typically like roughly 500,000 plus, again, generally. So as you can see like I am attracting different types of people, alright. You know, lead magnets for beginners you know, resources, that is a good thing for beginner because you are not trying to attract somebody 7 figure plus they already have all the resources and tools. They are not worried about that, right. So understand where your prospects are in your buying cycle and then kind of have triggers throughout your sales funnel that take them through and get them to the next stage in the buying cycle, alright. In the buying cycle, I will do a separate podcast on that, because that is a whole other topic, but you know, for now, just think about where, what different stages you have of prospects that are in different stages to the buying cycle and then if you are doing you know, have different -- you can have different funnels for each one or if you only have one, focus on one of them, right. So the client that I talked about, I do not know last time or the time before, that she is a coaching client, and she basically went from doing launches like 2 to 3 times a year you know, she is getting worn out of it that kind of thing and I helped her build the funnel. I mapped it out for her. We walk through it you know, coaching, she built it, but I kind of built it with her essentially because you know, (inaudible 13:49.4) coaching and she is now making about $1300 a day right, which is whatever that is like $500k a year or whatever from this funnel and what is funny is that, that funnel is only half done because what we did was we brought people in through different lead magnets, again, attracting different people in different stages of buying cycle and then they go into a funnel. In her case, there is basically the super beginners and then there is people slightly more advance. She is not going after about anybody really advance so it is like kind of the beginner and intermediate areas. And we only did the beginner part of it, right. So the only part that we even did was the very beginning course that she has and so she is right now working on doing you know, the second half of it. So that is going to probably double what she is doing now and she essentially started from 0 you know and within I think it took her about 6 weeks maybe because she had some other stuff going on and she went from essentially 0 $1300 a day just putting that funnel in place because it is a bad ass funnel. That is failing to understand your buying cycle. The number is 4 not understanding lifetime customer value, alright. Too many people trying to profit as much as possible on new customer acquisition, alright. It does not allow you to profit very much you know. Think about how much money it cause. Think about getting let us just say 5 times ROI on frontend acquisition or let us just say 3 times because that is probably more realistic if you are doing like a course you know, versus like coaching or something like that, right. So you are spending $1, you are getting $3 back, alright, good you know, but what people do not understand is that is all they focus on is, oh, I am spending $1 and getting $3 back, right. Well that might happen in the first 30 days, but what would happen if your funnel was based around getting that $3 but then turning that $3 into $10 or into $20 and that is very realistic when you are talking about you know, your backend. There are so many things that people can do to turn their buyers into repeat super fans, you know, and nobody does it. I cannot even begin to describe how many people I talked to that do not focus on their buyers and I am talking about 95% plus of people that I talked to. Most of the people that I talked to are at least $500 or more and a lot of them are million dollars or more and they are still not focusing on the backend and they are not focusing, they do not understand what lifetime customer value is, right. If you really get a solid backend in place, that $3 could very well be worth $20. So let me put it this way, would you be willing to spend, get to 1 to 1 ROIs, spend $3, if it is going to turn into $20 over the next you know, 3, 6, 12 months, hopefully, the answer is yes, you know. And so I want you to think about that you know, look at track people over, I like to track one short term lifetime customer value and one long term. So short term might be okay, you get people in your funnel. What are they worth over the first 30 days, alright. And all of you have to do with this is you know, tag them whatever like, just for example if you are doing Facebook ads, you tag them as Facebook ads and then you run a report. So, it is you know, it is May 2nd now let us just pretend it is May 1st, at the end of May so you get all your people in through Facebook right and you look at those people and you say, okay, you know, you track -- let us just pretend that we track all of the April, so we track all of April, so you look and you say, okay, these people came in you know, in the month of April and then at the end of May you would look back, what are they worth throughout the month of May, right. So they came in all throughout April you know, up until the end of May because that would be about 30 days isn’t that sound perfect, but you need (inaudible 18:05.7) how much money did those specific people, so let us just say you brought a thousand leads in throughout the month of April. How much money were those thousands leads worth in the month of May or since you know, since they came in the first 30 days, right. You can even tag them for the first 30 days you know, and then you look, hey, you know, where is my list of first 30 days. How much are they worth for the first 30 days, you know. How much money do they generate. And that is it, that is your value per lead in the first 30 days and then you can do the same thing for a year, right. So you tag them, you know, first year and then you look back after a year and then you say, okay, how much were they worth over a year. I mean it is very, very easy to (inaudible 18:47.2) stuff out. It is really not complicated. And then you look, and you say, Wow, you know, that is amazing. I thought you know, I was only getting 3 to 1 times ROI, but after a year, I am getting 20 to 1 times ROI. So what you do with that is you know, the big secret here is you can scale so much more when you are willing to spend more money to acquire a new customer. So you might have your “budget” $3 per lead, that is your allowable cost per lead is $3 because you know they worth $3 right or whatever your numbers are. So if you look and you say, holy God, you know, they worth $20 over the first year, right. Wouldn’t you be willing to spend you know, more than $3 to acquire something that is worth $20 you know, hopefully, the answer is yes and that is what you do, then you go out to people and you say, hey, look, you know, I am willing to give you 100% of the upfront fee, you know, say your product is $100 or whatever and now your -- you are willing to spend $50 whatever, well don’t you think that your affiliates that your joint venture partners would be much, much, much more willing to spend more or you know, to put more effort into promoting your product to service if you are willing to give them double your ROI now. Don’t you think that you can reach a broader audience base if you know, you are willing to spend $1 or whatever it was back then and now you can spend $3, or $5, or %10 you know, whatever your number is. I mean, you know, you can -- if you think about it, you know, typically, the more specific you are with your targeting when you are doing paid ads the higher ROI you get. So imagine like a little tiny little circle that is your circle of influence or whatever you want to call it, right. Well, if you can spend more money that circle gets bigger and bigger and bigger and bigger, right. And your competitors they do not know this. They are only willing to spend $3 as well. Well now, if you know the people are worth $20, maybe you are willing to spend $10. So if you are willing to spend 3 times as much as your competitors, who do you think is going to win, right. Think about that. I want that to be -- that is a huge, huge lesson for most people and they do not know it. They do not know the numbers. They do not know you know, how powerful that can be. That is how Jay Abraham took Icy Hot from whatever they were like $50,000 company to like it was like a $25,000,000 company in 18 months. That is the exact principle he used because he knew that -- I think his numbers are just less than (inaudible 21:40.5) the other day. His numbers were let us see, they found out that the Ice Hot, you know, the bomb you put it is like you know, it is kind of like (inaudible 21:50.2) right now because it is sore, but they were willing to give people $3. The product sold for $3, they were giving people $3 to sell it, okay, so they were giving 100% of the profits and they went out to a whole bunch of retailers and did that but the reason that they did that was they knew that over the first year their average customers worth $25 in that first year. So they were not losing money, alright. And they also knew that people would -- they would spend $3 on day 1 but day 15, they would buy another model, right, and they set their terms for net 30. So they, you know, they were essentially giving people 100$ upfront but they knew that their average person was going to order within that first month. So they were actually making $6 the first month giving out $3. So they were still getting off 50% really in the first 30 days, but then they knew that over the first year, they were worth $25. So they were getting whatever that is again 8 times you know, they were giving away $1 to make $8, right. And that is how they went from whatever it was, it was like 50 or you know, a couple of $100,000 or something like that just -- it was like barely, just a (inaudible 23:08.5) little business and he is (inaudible 23:10.2) like 25 million and again, do not quote me on the numbers there, to within like 18 months you know. That is the power of this, alright. So think about that. The last one is, thinking that the money is in the list, right. Everybody says the money is in the list, the money is in the list, the money is in the list, no it is not, not at all. The money is in the relationship with the list, alright. You can have a list and I know people with list of a hundred thousand, a million people, and I also know people that have a list of ten thousand and are crushing the people with a hundred thousand or a million. The reason for that is the relationship with the list, alright. It does not matter the size of your list does not matter, alright. You can show this by if you look at your list right now, let us just say it is, I do not know, 50,000, you think you have a big list, right. You think that is impressive. Go through it and see how many inactive people you have in there, because I guarantee you it is probably around 50%. I guarantee you because I actually just did this for both of my list. I guarantee you that roughly 50% of the people in your list have not opened a single email in the last 3 months or more. Go back and look at that and that is just an easy way to show you that you know, you can lop off 50% and you are still getting the same amount of opens, right, but you know, in a bigger contacts, the relationship is in -- the money is the relationship. The money is within the trust that you build with your list and that is through things like you know, telling stories, you know, being personal, being transparent, being trustworthy you know, building that trust with your audience, resonating with them and the emotional triggers that are going to help them resonate with you and that is different with every audience, you know, showing them that you are the person that is going to help them solve their problem, adding value to their lives. You know, things like that are going to help you in the relationship with your list, you know. I always tell people that people that are little bit newer to this that if your -- I just lost my train of thought. If you are going out to your list and you are sending them emails and they are not responding and you know, things like that, it is not doing what you thought it should do for the amount of people you have in your list, it is because your sending them again it comes back to message to market match, right. You have to -- they are signing up for specific reason and you have to give them reasons to trust you because their attention is on a hundred different things. So why are they paying attention to you, alright. You have to show them, that is actually partly what our new funnel that we are doing. That is actually what is about essentially. I forgot what the title is going to be. Essentially about you know, I actually I called the (inaudible 26:18.2) email, which, maybe I will tell you guys about that once it is done, but essentially, it is a simulate, resonate, and shocky email, right. It is a 60% open rate email, I might as well talk about it now, 60% open rate email that is essentially what we are going to be talk about, it is a quick little report, it is only like 6 to 8 pages. I am actually going to start finishing it today, but I called it the (inaudible 26:44.3) right. So the simulate, resonate, and shock email. So I will talk about that more you know, once it is done. Maybe I will even do a podcast on it, but yeah, you know, there is a lot of things -- if you go in my list you get basically like an (inaudible 26:59.8) email that is essentially what this you know, what this does is I bring you into my world and you instantly know who I am, what I am about, who I can help, who you know, why you should resonate with me that kind of thing and if you don’t then I will tell you to unsubscribe you know, and that is what this whole thing is about. So I will go into -- maybe I will do a separate podcast on that, but you know, the point here is that the money is not in the list. The money is in the relationship with your list. So do not sit there and think that it is okay to email your list once a month or once every 2 weeks even, you know, once a week should be the minimum, you know, and I sometimes I am guilty to this myself, but you know, there are so many auto responders in my list that most people are getting messages more than once a week. So even the final broadcast once a week you know, most people are getting messages at least you know, at least once a week and plus, most of my list is on my you know, listening to this podcast anyway so it is a little bit different. But anyway, that is it, I hope you enjoy this. If you know, if any of them really resonate with you, go back and re-listen to them, all of them are extremely, extremely important. If you want your funnel to convert, they all have to really you know, if you want to take your business to the next level, that is what you have to do you know, so if you want to get a little bit more in depth with all this, the 2 kind of main ways to work with us is either through coaching or having us just build your funnel for you. Everybody kind of want things for different reasons, so if you are interested in either of those, shoot me an email or just go to jeremyreeves.com and you know contact me. You could shoot me an email at support@jeremyreeves.com otherwise, if you enjoy this episode, if you think you know, your friends will benefit from it then you know, make sure you are telling people about it. Make sure you leave reviews so that our itunes rankings can go up and you know, give more people value you know. I put a lot of time into this. So I would appreciate that and also if you leave a review, I will send you the 101 Conversion Tips PDF where you know, I list out 101 different ways to increase your conversions, start your sales funnel, and that is free. I used to sell it for $77. So any of those would be very, very appreciated. So that is it. I hope you get a good start to your May and again, if you are interested in working with us, then just shoot us an email or go to jeremyreeves.com and fill out the form on there, alright. I have a team meeting in about a minute, so I will talk to you soon.

In today's episode we talk to the $1.5 BILLION dollar copywriter - Clayton Makepeace. Clayton is an absolute legend in the industry and is now semi-retired, working with just one single client, yet he graciously came on the show to talk to us about how to write world-class copy that increases revenue every single time. This is a must-listen episode! Resources Mentioned awaionline.com Want To Work With Me? Visit http://www.JeremyReeves.com or email me at Jeremy@JeremyReeves.com Enjoy! Transcript Jeremy Reeves: Hey everyone, this is Jeremy Reeves with another episode of a sales funnel mastery podcast and today I have on the line, one of the best living copywriters in the world right now, his name is Clayton Makepeace, and I will let him get into his you know, into his background and all that kind of stuff and who he has worked for, what kind of copy he writes, and all that kind of stuff, but let us just say this, he has made -- he has up to 1.5 billion dollars in sales writing copy which blows me out of the water. So Clayton, how are you buddy. Clayton Makepeace: I am doing good. It is good to be here. Jeremy Reeves: Yeah, yeah, yeah. I am excited to have you. So before we you know, we get into questions and all that kind of stuff, tell everybody a little bit you know, go into a little bit more detail about who you are, who you have worked for, some of the copy you have done and that kind of thing so they can get a good understanding of who they are listening to. Clayton Makepeace: Sure, well, really quickly. I have been writing copy for 43 years, it is about to be 44. I started back in the 70s. I have written for the health industry as well as for financial. I started out in the financial industry and then people (inaudible 1:11.1) and said, hey, we want to start an alternative health newsletter, would you write a promo for it and I agreed reluctantly. So we launch Health and Healing which was the world’s first alternative health newsletter. We sold 2 million subscriptions to that $29 newsletter. Prior to that, I had taken two companies to over 100 million in sales (inaudible 1:42.4) we start from $300,000 a month in sales to $16 million a month in sales in 1 year. Jeremy Reeves: Wow! Clayton Makepeace: And then (inaudible 1:49.7) company from about $20 million a year in sales to $120 million and then I started freelancing again and did the Health and Healing thing for Phillips. Then in the late 90s, I established relationship with Weiss Research and we turned safe money reported to the largest $98 investment newsletter in the world at that time and (inaudible 2:23.4) doing their acquisition program as well as their health style promotions. We just completed one selling high price investment advisory service. The service went for $3,000 and we did 15 million dollars in 4 months on that promotion. So it is a lot of fun, keeps you active that is for sure. Jeremy Reeves: Yeah, definitely, definitely. So that kind of gives everybody a good background that you clearly know what you are talking about after that much you know, that experience and you know, it is a pretty impressive you know resume. So I have a whole bunch of questions lined up for you and I could probably have you on the phone for the next like be in a week and a half straight, but we will kind of keep it within you know 45 minutes or so. So I kind of -- I have some questions some are for copywriting you know, just salesmanship and then the other ones are for basically, I think it is going to help really anybody in the service industry you know, get clients and then also make like maximize the money that they make with clients you know, themselves and for other clients. So let us start with something of the copy questions. So my first one is and this is you know, I know that you could probably talk about this one for an entire day, but you know, when you are researching and you are one of the big things with copywriting and you know, writing any kind of package is the big idea you know, the hook. So what is your process for finding that you know, because there is one big one for each and another is kind of like a couple of mini ones even throughout the packages, but do you have any kind of specific process that you go through with that or do you kind of just keep like researching until it you know, until it hits you or what are your thoughts on that. Clayton Makepeace: Well, usually the hooks come fairly quickly to me. I do not have to -- I almost never do research in order to come up with a hook. I am looking for you know, what is a hook? What is the purpose of it? Right. Well it is something that is going to focus the mind on either the problem that the product solves or on the solution itself, right. So if you are focusing the mind, let us say, in the financial area. You are focusing the mind on the problem well the problem might be an impending crash in the stock market. So that would be your lead. That is where you would be focusing on. You would be explaining why you know this is about to happen. How much people lost last time. How you know, bloody it is going to be this time that kind of thing and you would begin with that. That would be your hook. If you have a product that has a really unique solution, then you might begin with that and that is basically the big promise headline. We have -- we are working at a promotion right now where the profit potential from these investments if you win is like winning a lottery. It is like you know, even that is $10,000, walk away with 10 million dollars. I mean it is just enormous, okay. So, on something like that, you might want to lead with the actual benefit of the product. Also, quite often we will look at the product and I will say, what is a good metaphor and we are talking about the lead you know, how to get in, how to start the conversation. So I will say, what is the good metaphor for what this product does. One of the products I am working on right now, look at it, okay, well this product is like having a rich uncle anytime I need money I just need to call him up and he will send a check or it is like having my own personal ATM or is like having a money tree in my backyard. Anytime I need a little extra money, I just go out and just pick it off of the tree or it could be -- maybe it is like a slot machine that pays off every single time you pull the handle, right. So I came up with a bunch of these metaphors that very quickly focus the mind on the benefit. Wow, could it really be that easy, right, and then it is just up to you to explain, yeah, it can be. Here is how it works. Maybe it could be a story if you have one or it could be constructed or it could be (inaudible 7:05.7) from the news. Anything that your prospect is thinking about -- he has feelings about. So he is worried about it. He is curious about it. He is fearful about it. He is excited about it. So somebody is reading about the elections right now for example that is dominating the news. How are they feeling about the elections. How are they feeling about the various candidates. How can you take what he has already thinking about and insert yourself into that conversation that he is having with himself. So those are just some of the things that I look for when I am looking for a lead. Jeremy Reeves: Okay, nice. What if it say something like you know, because even in the -- I do a lot of work in the like in a supplements base health, the health industry and some of the products that (inaudible 7:54.9) a lot of benefits. So one example is like turmeric you know, it does not just do one thing, it is like it helps with your brain, it helps with you know, metabolism and fatigue and all different kind of things. How do you -- if it is something like that works not just like the one big benefit or one big problem that is kind of like mixed up you know, how do you take a look at things like that. Clayton Makepeace: Well I have done a lot of supplement promotions as well. In fact, I have one -- we mailed 90 million pieces of. It was for (inaudible 8:27.4) for health resources. I have to say that, basically, you stopped looking at the product and you start looking at your market you know, if a particular substance lifts your mood and also prevents heart disease which do you think you should leave it. You know, you are going to leave with a health problem that is shared by the largest number of your people and that is also intense enough to make him want to take action to alleviate it and that is why you know, typically and I know there are some promotion now where brain supplements are starting to work and anti-aging to a lesser extent, but those things have never done as well as because you are talking about things that are not screaming, crying, problems that people have right now, right. So they have never worked as well as the prostate cure, the heart cure, the blood pressure cure, the cancer cure you know, arthritis cure you know, the things have people are dealing with every single day. So I would look for the benefit that shared by the most people and is also intense enough to cause people to want immediate relief. Jeremy Reeves: Okay, got it. That makes a lot of sense. And so you know, speaking of you know, a lot of -- I mean really, a lot of it comes down to or almost everything comes down to understanding who you are talking to you know, so I am sure you have some kind of process for doing the research, understanding the market, understanding the product that you are selling, all that kind of stuff. Do you have like a structure way of doing that or you kind of just start you know, dig in somewhere and then see you know, where it leads you or is it something like you do this first then second you know, how do you -- Clayton Makepeace: I do not have to worry about that too much anymore because I am focusing on the financial market and so you know, I learned decades ago who these people are and I have got a pretty good handle on that. It has not changed much over the years, but for example, when I went in to the health market for the first time it was like 1990 and I was doing my first health promotion and I say, well I do not even know who these people are you know, there bunch of -- (inaudible 10:48.7) you know, obsessed with their own health and so I did not share anything in common with those folks and so I went to the bookstore and I went to the aisle with all the books on various aspects of alternative health and I started looking at the chapter titles. The titles of the books and also the chapter titles and I figured out you know, which ones were the best sellers and so again, you know, the people I am going to be talking to are the people who made these the best sellers, right. Then I went to the news rack and I looked at the alternative health magazine like prevention and others and all other world health magazine and I looked at the various covers that they had and you know, I knew from friends of mine that did work for (inaudible 11:48.6) had several covers for prevention magazine each time it went out and so they had years of research on what kinds of articles (inaudible 12:01.7) on the cover that sell the magazine. Jeremy Reeves: Okay. Clayton Makepeace: So you know, by looking at what -- again, by looking at what my prospects are reading I got some really good cues as to who they were and what would get them and then also you can go to the Standard Rate and Data Service which is (inaudible 12:23.2) 30-pound book (inaudible 12:25.9) can get it all electronically, but Standard Rate and Data Service, you can look up all the competitors of your client. You can also look up your client and you can find out what the people bought in order to get his list. Then finally, you go to your client you say, hey look, show me what has worked in the past. Show me what has not worked in the past. Show me the most effective or successful promotion in any of your competitors are using and show me some (inaudible 12:58.1) that they put out there.” And all of that is -- not just a cue to what is working, it is a clue to you know, who your market is and what will get their attention. Jeremy Reeves: Okay, got you. So at this point you know, you have your -- you understand who you are talking to, you have the lead, you have the you know, the headline, the big idea all that kind of stuff so then you know, you kind of write the package. How about the offers? That is an area that I found that a lot of people do not put enough attention on you know, and I have worked with -- I worked with I mean everybody from you know, people kind of just starting to work with the 12-figure company right now. And a lot of -- I have done a couple with like infomercial kind of products and when I worked with them, I noticed that like 80% of their thinking at least goes into exactly what the offer is going to be you know. So when you are putting these packages together, how do you put an offer together including you know, the bonuses, the price point, even the names of the products, things like that. Clayton Makepeace: There is a lot there. Mainly the products for example, we are not selling Campbell suits so we do not have to you know, naming strategies are very different in the retail space than they are in the directors (inaudible 14:14.3) because in the retail space, the whole idea to come up with the name that will stick in someone’s mind so the next time they are at the store maybe they will remember your product and buy it, right. Very tenuous. (inaudible 14:28.0) direct response (inaudible 14:29.1) very nervous with that kind of nebulous, tenuous connection, but that is what they are doing you know. They are just trying to get a name that will stick in your brain. In our promotions, the name of the product quite often does not show up until 2/3 of the way through the promotion you know. We (inaudible 14:49.6) third of the promotion capturing the guys attention getting him to read. The next they are telling our story and the final (inaudible 14:57.2) presenting our solution which is a product. So the name of the product is less important to us; however, whenever I may name a product I tried to get a benefit into the name and I try not to worry about it being too descriptive. For example, I am working on something right now, it is a service that helps you invest in small mining shares, right. A gold mining companies that are very small and the stock is cheap. They are called Junior Miners. You know, somebody wanted to call it Junior Miner, (inaudible 15:39.0) something like that, right. Well that is descriptive, but there is no benefit there and also there is too much information. The word junior makes me think that maybe the service is not worth that much so you know, because I do not know if you are really -- if junior is modifying miners or if you know, describing a service you know, it would be quite simple to just drop it and say, Mining Millionaire you know, we are gold mining millionaire. Now you got gold because you know that your market is extremely excited about gold. Mining which is descriptive. We are not you know, we are not buying bullion we are buying money shares and millionaire which is the benefit, right. So I tend to look at it that way for (inaudible 16:31.3). The author needs to write -- if you are a freelancer though your client has already spent hopefully hours and hours on author and comes to you with a product that is fairly well conceived and (inaudible 16:46.4) comfortable with based on their own testing and their own track record. So that is usually good, but I always encouraged writers if you see something that you think can be improved, talk to your client about it because they love that. They feel like they are getting something extra other than just copywriting. I just had a situation where they gave me a product per month and I said, I absolutely hate it and they said, well, we are going to do it anyway and I said, well, okay, and I just turned to one of my junior copywriters and I said good luck buddy you know, this is your project and then probably should say this, well, actually Clayton, we are hoping you would write it. So I said okay, you know, I guess you know, if that will make you happy, I will write about it -- tell you right upfront this really sucks. And so the first thing I did was I changed the name of the service (inaudible 17:42.4) was I changed the focus of the service and the next thing I did was I changed the offer. It was the buy 3 years kit, 5 years offer. I changed the guarantee -- basically, I did not have to promote the service that they told me to promote because I completely changed it into something that it was not (inaudible 18:01.4) to promote. Jeremy Reeves: Nice. Clayton Makepeace: So when you see opportunities like that, take them you know. In terms of the author, basically you are just looking to create as much value as you can. We have a fairly standard template in the newsletter field. If you subscribe to 1 year, you will get 1 or 2 special reports and a premium. So you are connected with the subject matter at hand, and if you take 2 years, you will get 3 to 4 additional reports and the reports are given a value and so you know, the best offer you get you know, I just wrote 1 week at $700 in free gifts and discounts and so in terms of the price of those newsletters basically the industry will said the price for you because you are competing against other newsletters and so you know, you look around and you will say okay, well $29 seems to be what I am competing against. We can always have up or down from there, but that is kind of the industry standard. With pricing for premium service products, the price is directly related to the profit potential of the advice that you are given. So if you are doing an income service where you basically promising them that you will double their yield and they will get 6% instead of 3%. You can charge $5,000 a year for that because unless they got a couple of million dollars that they are investing you are not generating that much money for them. So you know, your price is lower, but if you got option service or a warrant service that has (inaudible 19:40.7) you can demonstrate of 2%, 3%, 4000% per trade. Now you are talking of service where you can charge a lot more money and the other variable course (inaudible 19:53.0) some of the service is we have to limit the number of people that can get in because of liquidity problems and so we you know, we will limit 500 or 1000 people, with that limit it is just (inaudible 20:08.9) to raise the price. So those are just some of the things that we look at in terms of offer. Jeremy Reeves: Okay, yeah, got you. So how about for buyers, it is kind of another you know, another area that I see -- huge mistake that a lot of people make typically online you know, people they call themselves you know “online marketers” you know, they are all focus on getting the lead you know, getting the first customer then they kind of forget about the buyers which is obviously a giant mistake because that is where all the money is you know. So what about buyers, you know, you write all these promotions to get people, I mean, you know, they are both first time buyers and then repeat buyer promotions, but do you have anything in place any specific examples that you can think of where it was a very structured approach like you had a package that was specifically meant just to get a first time buyer and get them in the door and then you had something that went on or hold sequence that went out to then get them you know, to kind of you know, opt in to the higher level packages. Clayton Makepeace: You know, for some really good stuff on that you should talk to Todd Brown. I can give you his contact information. Jeremy Reeves: Oh, yeah, (inaudible 21:18.4). Clayton Makepeace: Okay, so Todd is really great on this but you talked about funnels and yeah we have -- if you buy a product from us, let us say you come in as a lead and your response is something on Americas 10 best (inaudible 21:36.6) right. It is a special report, so you read the report and you opted in, you come to a squeeze page so we have your email address, but you do not buy anything okay, so you come on to our (inaudible 21:50.4) well there is a 7-week funnel process that you are about to go through as a new lead on our funnel. The first week and it is really interesting because first we assumed that you are (inaudible 22:09.0) because you like the product that you are looking at, but you just did not buy it. So we come back to you with a better offer and then we try another product along those same lines and then we will try something wildly different. And something else wildly different. Each week is a week long campaign where we -- with a deadline because a deadline is the most powerful tool you got online to get people to act. So 1 week campaign aimed at moving you into one of these products. After 7 weeks you see that the totality of what we have available for you. And there is a very good chance you will obey the purchase. If you come in having bought a product you will also get a funnel designed to introduce you to (inaudible 22:59.4) and introduce you to other products so we could basically cross sell you. You come in on a $29 newsletter, we can cross sell you to another $29 newsletter or we could push you all the way up to a $3,000 trading service, and it is amazing. Some of these people come in for $29 and their next purchase is $3,000. Others come in at $29 and they will buy another $29 and another $29 for God knows how long so that is on the low end of the scale. It is a wide end of the funnel, right. The leads that come in and the first time buyers of low price product. So funnels are the answer there and Todd is great because he automates and does all kinds of fancy stuff and he can be working with us on our stuffs too. The other thing is will you buy a high price service. It is a complete (inaudible 23:54.6) deal. If you just spent $3,000 with me I am not interested in selling you another product right now. What I am interested to doing is making absolutely sure you do not exercise the money back guarantee because you know I sell 15 million dollars worth of products, half of those people cancel I am out 7 million dollars, 7.5 million. So you know, it is very important to me to get you to consume the service and to experience some winners and so the funnel there is not aimed at making a sale at all, but is aimed at getting you to participate to engage with the service, to consume it, and so very different kind of approach. Jeremy Reeves: Yeah, definitely. I call that a personal coach campaign because you are kind of taking them through like you know, just getting them to use the product, get a result from it that kind of thing. I love it. Clayton Makepeace: Exactly. Jeremy Reeves: Alright. So how about -- I have a feeling that we have similar thoughts on this, but what are your thoughts on writers block. Clayton Makepeace: Yeah. I do not ever have it, I used to, but over the years I have developed an approach to writing so that before I ever have to sit down and do the hard work of actual writing I have something that approximates the rough draft, but I did not have to write you know. So I go to the process of outlining you know, I will sit down -- let us say you give me a product, right. And the first thing I need to do is read the product profile. Identify the benefits and any unique selling proposition. You know, a lot of our products will have benefits that are common with other products that hopefully some of them will also have unique benefits that no other product has so I am looking for that and then I asked myself several questions. First question is what must my prospect believe in order for this product to become absolute mandatory for him to purchase. What must he believe in order to make this a mandatory purchase for him. The second question (inaudible 26:13.6) identify 2 or 3 things maybe 3 or 4 things. My next question is you know, what must I say to him or show him to make him believe those things without a shadow of doubt and that is my researcher question, right. You know, what chart do I need to show. What quote do I need from the famous person. What do I need to show him to absolutely nail down you know, that this is a mandatory purchase. Then I got this Ryan Deiss we were on the phone the other day with my mastermind group and Ryan is a real cool guy. I love the way he thinks and he said, he likes to sit down and basically draw a word picture of his prospect before he uses the product and after he uses the product you know. Basically this is -- and you can use it just like that in your copy you know. In fact, I did it once with the (inaudible 27:18.9) product where I showed this guy reversing his own heart disease and canceling his appointment with the heart surgeon you know. In picture 1, he is on the bed at (inaudible 27:30.9) and in picture 2, he is out dancing (inaudible 27:33.6) or something. So you know, you have this before and after picture. How is this product going to change your prospects life. How is it going to bring value to his life. How is it going to change him as a person. And then finally the final question I asked is what is he worried about, frustrated about, angry over, or excited about right. What are the things in his life that have him feeling these emotions. There are typically -- what I am looking for here are topical things, news, things in the news you know, because this is how I am going to get his attention. You know that old national anthem (inaudible 28:22.9) you know (inaudible 28:24.8) the word sex and then underneath it just said, now that I have your attention and then you know, it told you what was in the magazine. That is a very effective technique for what we are doing, not quite that blatant. I am doing a campaign right now for example that has to do with credit spreads, right. What could be more boring than credit spreads, right. So how did I start the engagement process. Well, I looked around and I said what is that everyone thinking about right now. What is everyone have their (inaudible 29:00.7) right now, the elections, you know. If you are republican, you hate other republicans because they vote for Cruz and you vote for Trump, you know. If you are a democrat, you hate republicans and you hate other democrats that are supporting Hillary if you (inaudible 29:17.5) support. So you know, everybody is up in arms over the elections and so that is all anyone is thinking about, it is all in the news. So instead of starting my campaign talking about credit spreads, I started out by doing a survey and asking people to tell me who is going to win the election you know, who is going to win this nomination, who is going to win that nomination. And then over time, and I said I will give you my prediction (inaudible 29:44.7) in the meantime I want (inaudible 29:46.7) from you. Like that is the conversation started that way but then later when my analyst said you know what he was predicting. His prediction was you know what, it does not matter because this thing which I named the golden red show, is credit spread is already determined that we are about to go through 4 years of hell in this country no matter who is president and so now is my transition into the product. You know, that is how you use this topic (inaudible 30:23.7) to get their attention. Now that was a stretch usually you do not have to go through that much of a stretch but that is an example of a stretch. So that is it, and I take those things and I create a strategy document and I create an outline for what I am going to write then I say, what is the (inaudible 30:44.3) do we need here in order to make this point and that because my research request. And now I sit down ay my computer and I have got this completed outline with all of the facts and figures in it and it is time to start writing. Jeremy Reeves: And you are already 80% done? Clayton Makepeace: 80% done. You are right, you know. So now you just have to turn it into a conversation, simple, you know. Jeremy Reeves: Nice, I love it, yeah. I actually -- I like how you kind of laid it out like what do they have to believe you know and then how do you, you know, what do you have to say to have them believe that. I love that. I am going to start using that actually. That is good. Alright, so moving into a little bit more of the business side of all this. I have a couple of things in here for people who are on the service side of thing, but then also you know, also clients who are hiring people like us you know, so what do you see -- I am trying to figure how to say this, when you are -- actually you know what, let us start with this one. When you are working with clients and they complained about people they are hiring you know, contract or service providers, copywriters, marketers, things like that, what are some of the things that they, that kind of you know, piss them you know, that pisses them off a little bit about people they are hiring you know, taking away the results and all that kind of stuff because that is you know, you kind of get the result or you do not. But you know, in terms of like the working relationship you know, what are some of the things that you see clients not particularly enjoying about working with copywriters. Does anything come into mind. Clayton Makepeace: Yeah. A lot of things. I am a client you know, I have gone to a point where although I write copy every day, I also hire other writers every day and I have got a staff 3 in-house writers. We also hire freelancers. So I see it all the time. I think the first you know, the first thing is, this is not my first -- this is my first rodeo. So do not try blowing smoke at my ass you know. It is physically impossible if 3 grandmothers all die while you are in this process you know, or you know, 6 grandfathers to get hospitalized still you cannot make your deadlines. If you are struggling, if you need help ask for it. If you do not understand your assignment, if you have questions ask them you know. It is a sign of intelligence you know. It is a sign that you thought this through, you thought about it and you have some valid questions. I am working with Eric Patel right now. Eric is a great writer. One of the top guys in health industry and every once in a while, he will work with me on a financial project. Eric is just, he is great that way you know, he is very intuitive, but there is no question he would not ask. The other thing is you know, communicate, if you are going to blow a deadline, that is fine. You know, Gary (inaudible 33:54.9) once said to me you know, I hired him to do a project, but I asked him when I am going to expect the first draft and he says, Clayton, my man, he goes the heartbreak of a blown deadline, has quickly forgotten in the warm blow of the new control. That is so true you know, but just do not be working on somebody else’s project and you know, we are doing -- not working on my project and putting me off. At some point, I am going to give you a kill if he did not tell you (inaudible 34:30.1) call me again. Another mistake that probably the most -- 2 mistakes real quick and then we can move on. The first mistake in copy that I see all the time is just (inaudible 34:46.4) or a disconnect between the product or the problem that you are talking about and the solution that you are offering you know, this happens a lot in the financial field. It would happen a lot less in the health area, but in the financial field it happens a lot (inaudible 35:05.8) with some like the elections that their backend is all about something else and there is no connection whatsoever. There is no transition. There is no way that these 2 have halves of this puzzle fit together. The other one is copywriters who will just simply make grand sweeping statements and expects the prospect to believe them you know, (inaudible 35:37.7) your prospect is not an idiot, she is your wife you know, and so you treat your prospect with respect. If you are going to make a statement as hard to believe, back it up. If you are going to make any kind of a statement that is key to them making the purchase, back it up you know, and respect their intelligence. Do not -- you know, read it critically. One of the hardest things for copywriter to do, you are in love with your copy, you just spent a month on it (inaudible 36:11.5) The hardest thing for you to do is to read it as a critique would, as a scenic you know, read it and say, oh, bullshit every other line you know, and ask yourself how can I make this absolutely believable. Jeremy Reeves: I actually -- sorry I cut you off. Really quick, I was listening to an interview, I think it was David Doidge, I might have that (inaudible 36:35.6). Clayton Makepeace: We are having dinner with David tonight. Jeremy Reeves: Yeah, so you could ask him if he said it. It was a couple of weeks ago, I think I forgot, I listened to all kinds of stuff. I think it was him though and he was talking about the amount of benefits to put in a package and he said, he was saying that sometimes you can have too many benefits because it dilutes the big promise that you are making you know, and I love that and he said a lot of people the mistake they make is saying you are going to get you know, A, B, C, D, E, F, G you know, all the way down to Z and then they do not back up each individual one with you know, with proof and he said that actually because you know, even like little -- it kinds of adds up if they do not believe a tiny a little bit it is like okay you know, I will keep going, but then if you say 10 things and you are not backing up 10 things then they are like alright, this guy is bullshit you know. Clayton Makepeace: Absolutely. Think of the situation where you have the one main benefit that you really focus on your entire package and then in one section of a copy you say, oh by the way you know, users have also recorded the following: Bullet, bullet, bullet, bullet, right. But they are pushed way down. You do not have to believe those things in order to buy, right. The whole reason to buy the product is that one major reason you have upfront. Jeremy Reeves: I love it. So working with clients, I know you have always been huge on doing you know, (inaudible 38:03.7) deals, royalties, things like that you know. How do you go about structuring it with the client. I know in most of the area that you have worked with that is kind of you know, (inaudible 38:15.1) and all that. That is kind of like what they do you know, so they are used to that, but if you are going after somebody who they were not in that world like it was a new thing to them you know, how do you go about approaching them with (inaudible 38:28.8) hey, I am going to write this for you for X dollars, it will take you know whatever 8 weeks or whatever it is you know, how would you kind of position the pitch to get a royalty from it or some kind of (inaudible 38:40.3) deal you know, something beyond the one-time fee structure. Clayton Makepeace: You know, Jay Abraham did this with the IcyHot. It is actually a little well -- it depends on the kind of (inaudible 38:55.9) you are talking about. If you go to a work for Agora they already have a royalty program all set up. They know what their use (inaudible 39:02.6) you might be able to negotiate up a little bit if you have a super hot hand, and they really want you, but pretty much, they have a standard royalty rate you are going to pay. When you go to somebody that is not used to paying royalty or does not used to hire any copywriters, then you can do what a friend of mine did once. He just simply said, look, I am going to give you two choices in terms of how to pay for this, you could cut me a check right now for $25,000 and I write this or you can cut me a check for $5,000 now and give me 10% of revenues, if it works, right. So you know, most of these people are not that bright frankly and they are going to say, I am sorry but it is true, they just instinctively in a knee-jerk manner will go to the lower cost today. They will go to the $5,000 you know, but I had a project once where I had 10% revenues and for 30 days work I got paid 2 million dollars. So you know, I mean it is a -- and Jay Abraham made like 20 million on that IcyHot deal, you know. So you know, I like that idea of giving him a choice. One time I even went so far if you you know, every once in a while maybe 5 or 6 times in a lifetime if you are lucky, you will come across this guy with a kick butt product who does not have the first clue about marketing and he knows he has got a great product and he just cannot figure out why nobody is buying it, and you can go to him and -- you only do this if you are absolutely sure, but you can go to him and say, man I tell you the truth, I would pay you to (inaudible 41:08.2) and write this, but here is what I am going to do, I am going to write a promotion and I am not going to charge you a penny, but I want 10% or ask for 20% you know of the revenues and negotiate down from there. So you know, either give him a choice or let him pick the one that is going to end up making you the most money because it is less money out of pocket for him upfront or I mean use that -- I ended up with a 5 year client out of research publications by making that offer to Johnny Johnson back in the 70s. I said, you know, your (inaudible 41:45.2) I can really kill it, you know, and I tell you what, I am going to write a promotion for you, if you promise to mail it, test it, I will write a promotion for you and if it works, you pay me my normal upfront fee and my royalty, if it does not work, you pay me nothing and it is like a no brainer. Jeremy Reeves: Yeah, definitely. I take it you know, if I was hiring someone and they said it to me. I think that is you know, I think you -- kind of just have to look at that as you know, what would I you know, what would be a no brainer it is almost like putting together an offer just for a product but you are doing it a service you know. Clayton Makepeace: Exactly, and think if you are talking to somebody, you put yourself in a client’s shoes. You talk to somebody and they show that kind of confidence you are going to want to hire him. Jeremy Reeves: Yeah, definitely. Alright, so we are kind of coming up on time here. So let us do two really quick questions. This first one might take a minute or two and then the second one is a really quick one. So the first one is, if you look back over your career you know, it is now spanning you know, whatever it was 46 years or whatever it was, if someone was you know, kind of in the beginning stage of that or you know whatever the stage of that and you were looking back over your career and there were like 2 or 3 big things that you know, held you back that you can help somebody to kind of not hit those road blocks you know, what would they be and let me know that -- that question came out a little bit weird, let me know if that was clear. Clayton Makepeace: Yeah, I think you are asking what would I ask if I was you know, -- Jeremy Reeves: Yeah, exactly. Clayton Makepeace: Well, the cool thing is you know, today, there is 9 million people out there well I would not overstate it, but today you have access (inaudible 43:37.8) good copy coaches, right. So back when I was getting started (inaudible 43:43.4) was my copy coach. I was brand new, he is a little older than me. He was already established and so I heard he was a good writer and I figured out who he was writing for and I subscribed to their publications and so I started getting all his great direct mail pieces and I would run you know, run at the mail box grab at one end and get my scissors out, I start cutting them out. I had a book for headlines. I had you know, I outlined a piece so -- it was amazing how consistent his outlines were. And I would look at the subheads, I look at every part of the author. I would memorize it. I never would steal anything but you are internalizing all of the stuff so the next time you write something is there. You get what he is doing right without doing anything verbatim. So that was how we had to (inaudible 44:37.5) and then my buddy, Gary Halbert, came along, Dan Kennedy came along, AWAI came along and Gary Bencivenga with his Bencivenga bullets. All of these guys are there to help and so you know, you got to take advantage of this. This is like it is a gift from (inaudible 45:03.0) from heaven you know, that you got these writers who have done great things in their careers and they are willing to help you. The questions that I would have had would have been pretty much the ones that you have asked me today. The ones about how do you connect with your market. How do you organize your promotions. How do you avoid writers (inaudible 45:29.4). How do you structure an offer you know, all of those things, and it is amazing when Mike Palmer came to visit a couple of weeks ago and we have drinks and Mike is a guy that wrote End of America for Stansberry. He sold 750,000 subscriptions after that one video sales letter and you know, just to talk to my -- and we were just sharing, well, how do you do this, how do you do that and our approaches were so different, but I learned from him and I think he may have learned a little bit you know, from me. In fact, one time, Mike called me up and said, can I just come to your office and sit in front of your desk for 2 days. I just want to -- I do not want to talk, I just want to watch you work and I said sure you know. So you know, he did that and like I said earlier, we have a dinner with David Doidge tonight, your friend (inaudible 46:31.9) to get his career started. All of these people have slightly different approaches to how they do things (inaudible 46:39.6) will sit down and write 350 fascinations before he starts writing a copy you know, and you can learn from each of them. So you know, I guess what that boils down to his networking you know. Spent time with other writers. Go to the American Writers and Artists boot camp every year in October. You will meet 500 or 600 other writers there. Join a mastermind. I have got a mastermind group. We had a couple of group members and we all share secret Facebook page plus we have webinars every month. So you are constantly (inaudible 47:16.0) each craft plus you can show your copy to other people, other copywriters give (inaudible 47:24.5) so you know, networking is very, very important. It is a gift that we have today and you take advantage of it. Jeremy Reeves: Definitely. Fully agree. Absolutely. Alright, so the final question is and you can throw out as many as you want, one or twenty or you know, whatever kind of pops in your head, but what are some of your favorite copywriting or marketing books, because a lot of times you know, some of the best copywriting books are not you know actually copywriting books you know, so besides any of your own stuff obviously you know, because I have gone through them and they are just ridiculous (inaudible 47:59.1) amazing there, but you know, any kind of you know, normal books. What pops in your head as kind of must reads for people either learning copywriting or just marketing you know selling in general. Clayton Makepeace: Well, you know, I kind of find I guess because I am an old guy you know, when I read modern day books, current day books, and copywriting, they seemed to me (inaudible 48:23.0) regurgitation of what Claude Hopkins wrote, what John Caples wrote, what David Ogilvy wrote, what (inaudible 48:33.5) wrote, what Eugene Schwartz wrote. Those are the guys -- I was speaking last year at the boot camp for AWAI and American Writers and Artist and I asked a question, how many of you have read Tested Advertising Methods, and maybe 10% of the people in the room raised their hand. Now these are people who just spent thousands of dollars to go through a conference on copywriting and they had read the masters, you know, blows my freaking my mind. You can go to a library, get this book for free and read it and it is pure gold, right. So again, Caples, Hopkins, Ogilvy, Eugene Schwartz anything by Mark Ford too, more modern day, Mark is absolute brilliant guy. Ready, Fire, Aim is awesome. He wrote copy logic with Mike Palmer, is also awesome. So you know, that would be my advise you know, to go to those guys and read all of the masters first and then start building up what they already knew what 100 years ago, 50 years ago. Jeremy Reeves: They figured it out a long time ago. I cannot even imagine what they could do if they were alive now with all the you know, split testing, so easy now and all that kind of stuff, it is just (inaudible 50:06.0) brilliant, but yeah, I totally agree. For anybody listening, if you know, they were a lot of things for (inaudible 50:12.3) so I will -- I will put all of my favorite books which are basically the same ones into the show notes so you can go and I will have the links to all of them and all that kind of stuff so you do not have to worry about remembering all the different names. You just click on the link. Well, hey, Clayton, I really appreciate you coming on. It was really fun for me. I was really looking forward to this interview as a copywriter myself. You are kind of a you know, you are one of the legends you know, so it was an honor having you on. Before we hop off you know, what can people do to find out more about you, get in touch you know, wherever you want to -- wherever you want to send them. Clayton Makepeace: Well, you can contact American Writers and Artist Institute. You can go to their site, awaionline.com and poke around, looking for me. If you cannot find information on my mastermind group you can always send an email though to help you out. Also, ask them about August, I am going to be doing an intensive, I think it is going to be in Denver and the point of this intensive is basically speed writing, I am known as one of the fastest copywriters out there and I am going to take for 3 days, I am going to take a group of 50 writers and we are going to -- I am going to teach them my method for creating really great sales pages in a week or less. So check that out too. Jeremy Reeves: Sounds fun. I am going to check that out myself actually. Sounds good. It was -- again, it was a pleasure having you off and we will talk to you soon. Clayton Makepeace: Alright, take care. Thanks for having me. Jeremy Reeves: Thanks.

In today's episode we discuss topics that many entrepreneurs are NOT going to want to hear. We're going to talk about the struggles most people NEED to go through to succeed, and why success is not a straight, upward, linear path.   Resources Mentioned JeremyReeves.com Want To Work With Me? Visit http://www.JeremyReeves.com or email me at Jeremy@JeremyReeves.com Enjoy! Transcript Jeremy Reeves: Hey everyone. Jeremy Reeves here again with another episode of the sales funnel mastery podcast. Today is Monday, May 9 and it is finally nice here in Pennsylvania. I do not know if you guys are in this region or if you are not, but our entire last week we went literally the entire week with no sunshine whatsoever. It is you know, spring and summer are taking very long time to get here in Pennsylvania and it is kind of annoying but it is what it is and you know, we live in Pennsylvania so we are kind of used to it. So I am in a very, very good mood today because it is -- well I guess it is only about 50 degrees out right now, but it feels really nice because the sun is actually out. So what we are going to talk about today this is something I was thinking about over this past weekend and what I was thinking about was you know, the kind of unpopular truth of growing a business and that is, that you have to look at it in terms of a long term perspective, alright. Everybody -- not everybody I talked to, but a lot of people that I talked to -- and it is mostly people that have not -- they are not already hugely successful in their businesses, they might be doing well but you know, all of my clients that I know of that are in you know, above million dollars that kind of thing like they kind of hit the pinnacle of success, they do not look at things in terms of short-term views, okay. They do not look in terms of like, hey, you know, you are going to do work for me and it is going to work right out of the gate, okay. They do not like look at it like that and it is because I think they have been through the ropes, they have seen that in the real world, things are not really work like that, okay. So you know, the whole message of today is to look at your business long term, okay. To look at whenever you are trying to accomplish something you know. We all have this big whopping goals on our mind you know. Right now, I am leaning down, I am trying to get down to 170 pounds, I am at about 186 right now and I am not looking at it in terms of like, oh how fast can I cut down. How fast you know, I am just going to go to this wild crazy diet you know, I am taking it slow, I am not doing anything crazy with it because what happens is when you try to sprint when you should be you know, kind of jogging toward the goal, you tend to make a lot more mistakes and do more long-term damage and you know, in terms of health, things like you know, like actually this week I am taking a maintenance week you know, to kind of reset my metabolism because I have been dieting now for 6 weeks. I started around 195 I think, yeah 195. So I am down you know, 9 pounds in the last 6 weeks. So you know, it is kind of time to give my body a break from dieting so that my metabolism does not get you know, kind of hit too hard and also because I am really close to breaking a personal record with my shoulder presses which is 75 pound dumbbells. So 75 pounds on each arm obviously, that is why dumbbells instead of barbell. So I want to hit that this week which is (inaudible 3:16.3) that I am increasing my calories because that is one of those like mental barriers I have been trying to hit for a while now, but anyways, in terms of business you know, people do things like if there are looking at it in the short term view, they do things like a whole bunch of promotions because they are looking at it in terms of you know, I want to hit X number you know, X revenue number this month, okay. I do not even look at monthly numbers anymore because it is too short of a timeframe. I only look in terms of quarters now especially in my business because you know, as you know, most of our revenue comes from working with clients and if we get absolutely hammered in 1 month and you know, kind of work on our asses off and you know, we get all the invoices in that month then the next month we have to slow down a little bit or we would not be able to fulfill for our clients. So it kind of you know, deeps a little bit. So we look in terms of quarterly goals, right. The bigger thing here is you know, I see a lot of people and it is like they give up so easy right. They give up so easy and what happens when you do that is that you kind of play this like mental games with yourself. You play these things where you know, subconscious, you are thinking, oh, I am not, you know, you start get into the downward spire of -- oh will this test fail, that means you know, I am never going to be successful, that means I am not worth being successful and that means you know, this is never going to take off from me and you know, they must have been lying to me that is going to work and blah, blah.. you know, that kind of thing. And you do not want to go into that because then once you go into that negative state of mind then you kind -- it kind of becomes a self fulfilling prophecy and you start getting demotivated, you start doing things that is self-sabotage all that kind of crazy nonsense. So what I want you to do right, is I want you to look at your business. I want you to think about where you are going to go, right. And I want you to -- I want you to try something. So let us just say that you want to I do not know whatever it is, whatever your next revenue goal is okay. I know what mine is. I do not know what yours is, maybe you are trying to go from I do not you are at, you just hit 6 figures, right. Now maybe your next thing is a quarter of a million, maybe that is your next goal. So I want you to think of what that timeframe is in your mind, okay. So let us just say, for example, that you just hit 6 figure, this is personal income by the way. Just hit 6 figures you know, you had your first hundred thousand dollar a year and you are excited, that is awesome, congratulations by the way, that is kind of the first big goal for everybody. And now the next one is, hey, you know, you wanted to get to 250K. So maybe you have that set for you know, next year, so like you know, in 2 years, you will hit 250K, right. What I wanted you to do is, I want you to think about that goal and then take the timeframe away from it and say, you know what, I am just going to hit 250K. I am going to try to do it as fast as I can, right, but I am not going to worry, I am not going to get stress out over when it happens. Maybe it will happen this year. Maybe it will happen next year, I do not know. Maybe it will happen in 4 years or 5 years whatever it is. And what happens when you do that is you become smarter. You kind of access a different level of your mind that allows you to think more strategically because when you take away that stress and that pressure off yourself, that anxiety, which is kind of strangling your mind. You start to become more creative and you start to work more efficiently, right. You see how that kind of you know, the loop goes you know. You can either go into a downward spiral or an upward spiral and you want to be going into the you know, the upward spiral. And also you know, a lot of people are split testing these days. A lot of people listening to this are probably you know, go getters, you are probably doers, right. You are probably doing a lot of different things. You are testing a lot of different things. A lot of them are probably failing for you. So for example, I talked about -- a couple of weeks ago, I talked about the one Facebook campaign that failed for us, right. And a lot of people are like, oh well, you know, I failed, oh my God, it is so horrible blah.. blah.. It is really not because with every failure, you learn something so that you do not repeat that mistake the last time okay. We actually just launch a new Facebook campaign and obviously there is no result yet because we just launch it like I do not know like an hour ago. I do not even know if the ads are live yet. So you know, so for example you know, I have had -- so that test you know, you are going to have these failures, you are going to have these successes, you know, and you want to minimize your failures and look back on your failures and get the lesson from it okay, that is key here it is crucial. So for example you know, we learned a whole bunch of things about the last Facebook campaign. We rushed it, that was one of the lessons not to rush it that much and actually put some thinking time into it. I tend to do that with my own stuff. It is funny when I work with my clients I sit there and I brainstorm for like days before I give them you know an answer and what we are going to do, but when it comes to my stuff, I just like throw it out there and see what happens. And then when you do win, you know, you want to look at that and say okay well why did that win, alright. So you know, I was talking about a client that I took her from zero essentially to like $1300 a day and she is only down by half a funnel, pretty much instantly as soon as she test it, so huge win. I just had a -- I am working with a client that (inaudible 8:46.4) for a couple of months now and we just put a new test together, this was after a big failure with them. So the first test that we did with them was a big failure not really a big failure is just a failure. It did not you know, increase anything. And then the second test that we implemented, they went from -- so this specifically was an email campaign and they were getting roughly 1 sale a week from that particular campaign and we implemented my new email campaign for it and so far they are getting about a sale a day from that, okay. So it went from a sale a week to a sale a day from that same email campaign that we free wrote for them, right. So another huge win, okay. So we are now looking back this week in our meeting and saying, okay, well why, you know, what is the reason, what are people responding to you know, and we found out already that they are responding to emails number 1 and 5. So then we are looking at it and saying, okay, why are they responding those emails, what are we saying, what can we emulate and do -- in the rest of it you know, the emails to kind of get it so that they are responding to more of them. I actually just had another campaign go live which is absolutely crushing. It is going to be a multi-million dollar campaign that I did. This is -- I am actually not allowed to talk about the actual company with this one or even really the specific results, but it is for a 12-figure company, I will put it that way. So it is for a very, very, very large company you have their products in your house, I guarantee it. We did a campaign for them which was not really doing anything for them. We kind of redid the campaign and setup a new thing for them and now it is absolutely crushing it. It is going to be a multi-million dollar campaign and it is kind of like the first stepping stone to launching this new product that they have which is really exciting for them and for us because we have a whole bunch of stuff to do with them you know over the next couple weeks or months and stuff like that you know. So there is always big wins. There is always big loses and you just have to realize I just want everybody to remember that you know, succeeding in business is not a straight path. You do not just go you know imagine like a graph, you do not start at bottom and just go steadily up. It does not happen like that. Kind of like my weight loss you know, I am tracking my weight and you will see like you know, you go and dips down a little bit and then it flattens out for a week or two and then it dips down a little bit, it flattens out. It goes up, it goes down you know. That is normal. That is how things work in the real world you know. Kind of like they always say, the old (inaudible 11:19.9) about you know flying a plane. It is not a straight shot. There is thousands and thousands and thousands of course corrections getting you from point A to point B, alright. And that is kind of like the big message that I want to give you today is that when you are building these funnels, when you are testing things, as you are trying to grown your business, when the failures come up and they will come up, do not let them knock you in your ass, okay. If they do knock in your ass if it is a huge failure and you were like for some reason it was some huge campaign that you thought was going to be like a giant winner and it flop on you. What I want you to do is take a day, get out of your house, okay, what works for me is I go hiking, okay, that is my thing. If there is some big failure and it is just totally annihilates me emotionally which often happens with client projects when I think something is going to like kill it and then you know, it does not. That kills me more than on my own stuff. So like I just rewrote a big sales letter for really big client of ours and you know it should you know, absolutely annihilate his current control, but if it does not, that is one of those projects where I am going to be -- it is going to like, it is going to kill me you know. So what I do is I take a day or a half day whatever, you know, it kind of depends and I go hiking. I just get out in the nature because that is what it works for me. For you, might be the beach, it might be you know, meditating, it might be taking a nap, maybe you I do not know take your family off for breakfast and lunch I do know, whatever it is for you, you know. Go for a drive up in the mountains, whatever it is that gets your mind off of it and it allows you to center yourself and then come back the next day and crush it right. Think about why it is not a big deal. Think about why you know, it is just going to fuel your fire to come back and just be a total badass and crush at the next time. That is what you have to do. Allow yourself to get away and kind of just you know again, center yourself. Get yourself and ground yourself. Get yourself back to a good positive free of mind because you cannot work. A lot of people try to push through when they should be just allowing themselves to you know, kind of feel the failure and learn from it and then move on, alright. So that is it for today. Really nothing about sales funnels but it is a lot about the mental model and the mental aspects of building funnels and growing a business and that honestly is just as important as the strategies and the you know, the tactics that we normally talk about, alright. So that is it for today. If you feel this episode resonate with you let me know. I hope it did. I know -- you know, I have been working on this stuff for a long, long time in my business, you know, I am in a business where we are pushing out projects all the time, right, because we have all these clients and so we are pushing our projects you know, at least 1 or 2 a week that are getting send to the client, getting -- you know, we are getting edits back. We are getting their feedback, it is going live, we are getting the results you know, so I am dealing with this stuff all the time and so I am fighting a lot of like you know, inner demons so to speak and you know, so this is the stuff that works for me. I hope it helps for you. Most entrepreneurs you know, if you own your business, you are not dealing with it as frequently, so it might actually hit you harder when something fails you know, because I am kind of used to it. I have developed a thick skin with it. With you, you know, if you are only launching something once every a couple of months and you have 2 things that fail right in a row, it might just totally crush you, you know. There is a lot of ways to kind of not let it you know. So that is it for today. I hope you enjoy this. As always, if you are enjoying this podcast, make sure you share it with your friends. Make sure you leave us a review and if you do leave us a review, make sure you email me at support@jeremyreeves.com and I will send you our 101 Conversion Tips you know, ebook as a thank you for giving us a review that helps us in Itunes rankings and all that fun stuff and if you want to talk about working together, then just shoot me an email at support@jeremyreeves.com there is a contact me form and all that fun stuff and yeah. Looking forward to see you soon.

In this episode we sit down with Justin Christianson to discuss what's working and what's not working in CRO (conversion rate optimization) these days. CRO is crucial to maximizing your revenue throughout your sales funnel so pay close attention! We'll help you save time by only focusing on tests that matter, while maximizing your ROI. Enjoy! Listen To The Podcast [powerpress] Resources Mentioned Conversionfanatics.com clyxo.com/justinchristianson usertesting.com mixpanel improvely optimizely crazyegg mousestats Want To Work With Me? Visit http://www.JeremyReeves.com or email me at Jeremy@JeremyReeves.com Enjoy! Transcript Jeremy Reeves: Hey what is going on guys and girls, this is Jeremy Reeves with another episode of the sale funnel mastery podcast and today I have on the line, Justin Christianson and Justin is the bestselling author of Conversion Fanatic, How To Double Your Customers, Sales and Profits with A/B testing and is -- he has been in the industry for 14 years. We actually talked a couple of years ago and now we are getting back in touch and I already know -- I have seen a couple of the things that he has done. He is a wizard with CRO which is conversion rate optimization and you can find him at Conversionfanatics.com and I am going to bring him on with him to give you a little bit more detail description of who he is and kind of who he helps and what he does and all that kind of stuff. So Justin, welcome. Justin Christianson: Thanks Jeremy for having me, glad to be here. Jeremy Reeves: Yeah, yeah, definitely. So you know, I just did a quick little brief intro just so they have you know, kind of a quick little background of you, but go into you know, tell us a little bit about what you do and who you are helping and that kind of thing. Justin Christianson: Well, this is my 14th year in digital marketing. So I have been around the block a couple of times. We basically started our company, Conversion Fanatics, just actually a couple short years ago after my business partner and I were in private consulting, doing basically the same thing you know, it just came at demand you know. A lot of companies coming to us, they know they should split testing they are just not sure how to go about it or maybe they are seeing lackluster results with their current optimization effort. So we stepped in and basically helped them with their split testing and optimization and provide the bandwidth need from the frontend development standpoint, from the design, the implementation, the advisement of the reporting, so we kind of take over the majority of the heavy lifting to help companies achieve those results faster and test a lot faster than they would ultimately not be able to do on their own. Jeremy Reeves: Yeah, sure, okay. So when you are working with people, is there certain -- I am always interested in the process that people go through, because you know, you get really good results for people and you know, for me, like I know that once we -- in our company, once we started getting systems in place, you know, and actual process rather than just like, okay, let us -- you know, here is the project, alright, let us start working on it. You know, when we actually had like an actual process in place our results went way up you know. So what is you process. Somebody comes to you and you know, they hire you, you know, so day 1 like what is the -- what is the cycle looked like and the process that you go through with people and you know, I am kind of saying this, try to relate to someone who is going to be doing conversion optimization, so like, what do they have to do rather -- because a lot of people I know, it is like okay, you know, whatever a sales letter, we have a sales funnel in place, alright, let us start testing, alright, well let us test this color of a button you know. Take us through the process that you should go through and what you do for your clients that helps you, helps you get more winners you know, because one of the big problems with conversion rate optimization is that when people start doing it, they do not get good results because they are kind of just throwing things against the wall you know, and they have no you know, no insight into like what they should be testing. They are kind of just like, oh, yeah, let us test this headline like with no reason for testing it you know what I mean. So walk us through that process. Justin Christianson: Okay, so the first thing you want to really understand is, what is the outcome you want out of an optimization plan, I mean what are your biggest areas that you need to focus on like you said, most people just go at it, make a list of things, it is like, Oh, a green button is going to convert better than an orange one, and they do not really pay attention to what they are actually in testing to accomplish. It is probably the biggest thing, that is where we help our customers identify, it is like, what are your big objectives, what are your goals for the next 12 months or for the next 24 months and then understand kind of where they are falling short. So if you analyze your own existing business from that standpoint to is you are going to understand a lot of areas that need improvement rather than just testing some random things. So from there, we analyze existing conversion rates. We will look at analytics. We will look at heat maps, click maps. We will try to figure out where the visitors are going and then ultimately find out where they are falling off in the process. So you might have 4 upsells in a chain on your sales funnel and you see that, oh, well, I am getting decent people signing up on the front end, but my average order value is kind of lacking. So you would go back and find which of the areas that you need the biggest area of improvement, it might be upsell 2, it might be upsell 3, heck, it might even be the first offer. So from there, we gather all of that information. We do market analysis and competitive analysis too. So we will go out there and look and see where other people are spending money and figure out what pages they are sending their traffic to what you know, what kind of offers they are presenting to help us formulate what we call a test-type offices. And from there, we create the test-type offices and that is, okay, what are the biggest areas of leverage that we need to focus on first and what do we feel will be the biggest -- have the biggest impact if we start testing immediately and we are coming up with the ideas not just a list of you know, we are going to test headline first, then we are going to test the button and then we are going to test the call to action and then we are going to add some testimonials. It never works out that way. So we always want to find the biggest leverage points first and then decide, okay, what do we want to test first. What do we think is going to have the most impact and what is our desired outcome from this test. What will make that a winner. And then from there we just start testing. I mean, that is our basic process, but we do not like I said, we do not just make a huge list of things to test even though I can go on anybody’s site and say, okay, you need to test these 50 things. We just tried to learn from every single test that we conduct. So you let the data be the guide and then kind of back that up with some best practices. It could come down to that you simply need to test a button color first. Maybe you do not have enough contrast in your buttons or maybe you need to add some additional calls to action to your process. So it can come down to something as simple as that, but often times it is just, you got to let the data do the talking. Jeremy Reeves: Okay, that makes sense. And do you, you know, when people first come to you and you are always, and you are looking for that first test to start you know, there is nothing to place, you just started the project. Do you look for -- because there is kind of two ways that you can go about it. You can look and say, okay, we are going to start with this big you know, overhaul and see you know, that helps or you can say, alright, well I see let us just say, 3 different areas that are like almost guarantee of the quick wins you know. For example, if they have like the call to action section is just say yellow and then the call action button is also like just a slightly different shade of yellow you know, that is like an easy win you know what I mean. Now are you going to double conversions, probably not, but it is easy win. So what do you look -- do you look in terms of getting a couple of quick wins first to kind of generate some momentum, you know, it is kind of a like if you are losing weight, you want to lose a couple of pounds really fast, like to gain some confidence and just getting some momentum or do you look at trying to get a big win right up front. Justin Christianson: I mean it is usually a case by case basis, but if there is some things that are just blatantly obvious like you said, you know, the yellow one yellow. We are going to test that right out to get those wins and sometimes that little change can have a huge impact. I remember one test we ran where we change the button color to add the contrast. It was a button color test and it increased their actual pre-account signups for this company by like 154%. It was something just ridiculous, but they had a very simplistic page, but we tried to find the biggest areas of leverage first. If we can get those quick ones of the way and we can learn something from that test then we will go out and do it. So I always say, you have to learn something from every single test whether be a winner or a loser. The loser sometimes tell us more about the visitors than the winners do. Jeremy Reeves: Yeah. You know, and go a little deeper on that because I think that is the whole learning aspect of this, that is something that most people glaze over. They kind of just want to -- they kind of, you know, it is like, oh, let us test the price, let us test a different type of offer or bonus or whatever it is. I mean, there is a billion things you test, but they do not really look for okay, well, this one or this lost and what is that teach us. What can we use to then increase our results in the future. So go a little bit deeper on the whole aspect of you know, finding learnings from you know, doing your testing. Justin Christianson: Yeah, so you just want to let the visitors be the guide. So the whole goal when you are thinking about optimization is what can you do to remove the most amount of friction from your process to get your visitors from initial click to the end goal. So you have to learn something, your visitors are going to tell you what they like and what they dislike more than anything else. So you can assume all day long that something is going to work better but often times, you are going to be proven wrong. So when we go into a testing scenario, we always want to figure out something about the visitor. So I was thinking about it in terms of people because that is (inaudible 12:09.0) dealing with it at the end of the day is people. It is what makes them tick and what makes them move through the process. What are they interacting with the most on the page. What are they not liking. An example is we ran a test or look at some data for an e-commerce store recently that they are mobile checkouts or just blocking for better term. So we found out that there was too many clicks involved I mean, our today’s mobile world were so easy, just flip your thumb and you scroll down to the bottom of the page. So they were making people click to choose the size, click choose the color, choose all of the stuff and then it would expand on your mobile phone as you kind of move through the process. That adds friction. Anytime you can add a click to something, that is a friction point. So we took it upon ourselves and we expanded all of those options and it initially showed like some massive improvement and then as the test went on we gather more information and more data it fell off and then it end up losing by like 4%, 5%, or 6% something like that at the end of the day but instead about saying, oh, you know, that did not work, let us move on to something else, we said, we are on to something because it showed initial results that were extremely positive, I mean it was 40%+ improvement initially and it is (inaudible 13:33.9) there for quite a while. So we went back and we revised the test. So we expanded some of the options. We rearranged things just a little bit to make it a bit more appealing and ended up with like a 36% winner out of the deal just because we were looking at the information as a whole not necessarily just looking at oh that was loser, let us move on to, no, we just need to test the button color. Jeremy Reeves: Yeah, got you, okay. Is there any, you know, when you are doing test, is there any certain you know, because there is always that fine line between accuracy with you know, like getting result like accuracy and then also speed because you know, you can get, you can sit there and waste you know 2 years getting you know, ridiculous amount of accuracy, but you know, there is also the you know speed involved with that and how many text you can do and all that. So do you have any like kind of base numbers I know like you know, 95% is kind of like a general rule of thumb you know or does it differ between businesses you know, how do you look at that because I am sure your clients even you know, some of them have really high volume so you can get extremely statistically relevant you know information results and all that kind of stuff. So talk us a little bit about you know for the average person doing this, is there kind of a rule of thumb in terms of how many results they should have, how many conversions they should have before they consider a test you know resolved where they can move on to the next one or how does that look. Justin Christianson: Well, I mean you can run test. We have had test run where there is you know, we ran 200,000 visitors through a test and still not achieved significance. So that is kind of a number we used, but we kind of based it on the level of conversions. Obviously, you need a large enough sample size. So I say run a test for a minimum of a week because you need enough days in there because the traffic on weekends is going to convert different than the traffic on Mondays or Tuesdays, so you need a big enough sample size over a long enough period of time getting all the days of the week in there and then we look at it from the point of conversions, so we look at a minimum of 25 conversions per variation before we start actually looking and paying more close attention to the actual data. So we have to look at it from that standpoint because if you have just a handful of conversions on each variation 1 conversion can swing the test dramatically one way or another. So you have to have enough sample size I say usually, 1000 unique visitors per variation, run it for more than a week and then if you have enough conversions because that is the main catalyst at the end of the day is how many people are actually converting. It does not matter, I can send a bunch of junk traffic to a site and get a bunch of traffic but it means nothing. So we look at it from that standpoint and if it is showing promise one way or the other you can usually tell by about 25 conversions or more per variation. Jeremy Reeves: Okay, got you. Yeah, and what you are saying there is a lot -- most people do you know like an A/B split test it is this version against this version, but you can also do this versus this versus this versus you know, you could have more than one versions that is what Justin talking about with that just in case anybody was confused on that. Now is there any -- I am trying to think of a ways to word this, when you are looking at all of the different you know parts of the funnel that you can test you know, is there anything that you found and maybe you can even categorize this by like industry if you know, whatever -- if it helps. Is there any part of the sales funnel that you found that you can typically find increases (inaudible 17:37.9) easier. So just for example, maybe the lead generation part, the opt in part or the where you are actually making the first sale or the checkout process or after the sale you know, is there anything, anyone -- let us just keep it to those 4 areas just to make it simple. Is there any one of those 4 areas that you found most people are doing wrong the most and it is like an easy win you know, within that area. Justin Christianson: It is almost always the checkout process. Jeremy Reeves: I thought so, okay, yeah, so talk to us about that. Justin Christianson: So many people work so hard on their sales message. It work on the great video on their opt in page and they work on this beautiful landing page and trying to get people to subscribe for their free report for lack of you know, just something (inaudible 18:28.0) we work in all sorts of industries. We have software as a service you know. Companies doing 50 plus million dollars in revenue, it is still the same thing. It is all traffic and conversions at the end of the day, it is just a different market, but the biggest thing is the checkout. They spent so much time on their sales message and their process and selling people on exactly how great their product is and all the benefits they are going to get from it. Then they push them to this checkout page that is very vanilla, it is very boring and it does not carry over the sales message almost ever. I mean, there are so many companies that says, okay, now enter your check or your credit information. Here is your order total and let us go. The biggest area of improvement there even it could be e-commerce, it could be somebody selling information products, it could be you know a supplement company and it does not matter. Once you get them there you got to remember to continually sell them on why they need to push that checkout button. You put all these effort in to getting them to the checkout page and then you give up on selling. So carry over your benefits. Carry over your proof elements. Carry over how simple your process is. Walk them through that exact process on exactly what they need to do next. Emphasize that is a 100% secure and give them all the warm and fuzzy feelings they need to push then fill out that form and get started with the next step. Jeremy Reeves: Okay, got you. Do you do anything -- what are some of the kind of best practices for you know, like what are a lot of people missing on their checkout pages you know, besides kind of restating all the benefits and stuff like that. What about things like you know, trust deals you know, that kind of thing or design even you know, something like that. Justin Christianson: Well, a couple of things I look at is what is the visible about (inaudible 20:24.8) page. When you first land on the page, do you see the checkout button. You know, they could have a bunch of additional white space in there. Some of the best practices that I have is make it just simple as possible. Don’t have you know, here is your billing information and then have it expanded so they have to fill out the shipping information to. Let them choose if they need to ship it to a different address you know, to provide more you know, less clutter on the page. A couple of the few other best practices are, you mentioned, you know, carrying over the benefits, using those benefit-driven bullet points to highlight your guarantee again you know, if you do not have something just say satisfaction guaranteed. If you do not offer you know, a set refund period. And then progress bars, that is another big one, is people do not really highlight how easy it is and progress bars allow you to do that. So I say, do not add more than 4 steps in your process to narrow it down but show them. Okay, you are on this step, right now, you have only got 1 more step to go and you are done and we are out of here and I am going to be shipping your product out to you or you going to get access to the product. Another good trick that I have seen specifically on desktop which is coming a little less effective as more mobile users come on, but have a video on your checkout page that just have the face of your company maybe the CEO of the company and just say hey you know, we are real company, just a video you know, we have -- we have sold this many products and this you know, many countries and we have you know, fabulous support team you can contact them here. Here is our guarantee for the product just really adding that personal touch in that social element that proof element into the mix and then just tell them all you got to do is we are just 1 more step away you just got to fill out this 100% secure order form on the page and click that continue button and it kind of gives them additional call to action but says that, hey, we really stand behind this product and I think you are going to love it for this reason. Jeremy Reeves: I love that. That is -- and you rarely ever see that you know. I cannot even remember the last time I saw a video. I do not even have on my own. I am going to put that on my list for next week, probably, I am going to do that. It is funny because I knew that, I just did not do it but yeah, I mean, you never ever even see that, but you know, I was kind of -- as you were explaining it, I was kind of picturing it in my head. I mean it makes tons of sense because you are you know, when they are at the checkout page that is like their moment of you know, the maximum friction you know, they kind of nervous they are like, oh my God, you know, what if they rip me off. What if it is not for me and they would not give me a refund you know. These are all the things going through people’s heads and if you are just on there and you are like, hey, look you know, very just down to earth you kind of you know, do everything that the words and the order (inaudible 23:30.8) should do your restate the guarantee. You restate the benefits. You reassure them of the purchase that is going to be good for them you know. Reassure them that what they are about to buy is going to help solve their problem you know, all that stuff and you just put it in to whatever 30 seconds or 60 seconds video. I can see that, that is actually going to be my next step for my side business, I will let you know how it goes. Justin Christianson: Yeah, for sure, let me know. It just handles all of the objections upfront and the more you can do that and another thing is I mean, people do not read on the internet. Even though there are studies that have shown long form you know sales messages and stuff like that do outperform in a lot of cases, but most of the time people do not -- still do not read them. You know, they (inaudible 24:16.2). So breaking thing down into bite size (inaudible 24:20.0) on your checkout page they you know, we have a 60 day guarantee and if you are not 100% satisfied and you list all of that stuff out it is just adding friction to it. Throwing an icon up there that says 60 day unconditional money back guarantee. You know, just making it easy and not distracting to the end goal. Jeremy Reeves: Okay, got you. Yeah, you know what, one of the -- I think one of the reasons and you can correct me if I am wrong. One of the reasons that I think having all these stuff on your checkout page works is because people normally do not read every single word on your page. So they might not even know that you have a guarantee you know, and before they get there or they might not even know you know exactly what the benefits are that they are even you know buying and they are hitting your checkout page. A lot of times, depending on how you have your price, I mean this is going to vary, but depending on like where your price is on your sales page and all that kind of stuff they might just be clicking the first buy button that they could see just to find out the price you know. A lot of people would do that and so if you only have you know, hey our product X is you know, $197 and they are going to be, oh it is too much, and just click off versus if you have like, here is why $197 is nothing you know what I mean, you are going to whatever if it is an ROI you know, you are guaranteed to make 10 times or whatever it is then they are like, oh, okay, you know, that sounds better, but yeah, I love that. I love that. So when you are looking at that so you know, the checkout page is one definitely huge leverage point because it gets a lot of people and you know the abandonment rate on checkout pages are huge I mean I have seen 60%, 70%, and 80% with that. So if you can get it from 80 to let us just say 60 you know, that is whatever like a 25% increase you know in your sales which is huge you know. So one of the things that you do is you look for leverage points you know, when you are looking at people’s businesses you are looking at what you can help increase the conversions on. You look for the leverage point. So you are looking at just for example maybe let us just go back to button color just for a simple example. Maybe all of their button colors are wrong so instead of just doing 1 test and let us just say they have a couple products and each one is you know, worth 20% of the revenue, I mean it never works out like that, but just for you know, simplicity sake. So each product is worth 20% of the revenue, there are 5 products and you get a 10% conversion on 1 of them. Well that is only like a 2% total revenue increase whereas if you are looking at something that increases it site wide you know, you can get you know, a 10% increase overall rather than 2%. So you know, what kind of leverage points do you look for. Do you look for things like that. Is it different leverage points like things like you know, price or something like that or you know, how do you look for leverage points when you are working with people. Justin Christianson: I will let the visitors be the guide. That is the biggest thing is. I always look at it from the standpoint like I mentioned earlier of friction. Is you might have 5 steps in your process you know, add the product to cart and then it pops up like e-commerce store for example. You are browsing, you go to the category page. You find the product you want. You view the product page. You see everything great about it and you add it to cart and then you are stuck on that page because you got the little icon in the upper end right side that shows (inaudible 27:49.7) all of the sudden. That is a friction point. Instead, you got to push people into that next step instead of you know, just leading them down that path and again, it is just grabbing them, holding them by the hand, leading them down the path of least resistance to the end goal. And that is the areas of leverage we are looking at. Another example could be that you have multiple calls to action. Maybe you have got a page for a trial offer for a software as a service but you are also highlighting it is like sign up for a demo or you know download my latest white paper. Sign up for this webinar and you are just distracting people from what it is you want them to ultimately do in the end and that is to sign up for a free trial. Jeremy Reeves: Okay, got you. And when you are looking at the you know, going back to essentially telling you know, the prospect or the customer you know what they want, how do you find out like do you do surveys, do you do -- and if so, you know what kind of surveys do you do, do you do to the list, exit pop surveys or pay to surveys like on Facebook or you know, how do you -- how do you go about your kind of research process to understanding the customer. What they want, their frustrations all that kind of thing. Justin Christianson: Yeah, it comes down to looking I mean heat maps, click maps, or great tools. You can find out that you have a video on your page and nobody is clicking on it to watch it. So it becomes absolutely useless at that point. You might think it is improving your conversions but nobody is clicking on it to watch it so it is not doing you any good. You know, and then surveys are another great example. You could do exit surveys just to gather some extra intel there. I always tell people that if you can survey your customers that is a great way to do it because one, a lot of people do not like it because they do not want to necessarily hear the bad stuff tht might come out of it, but it is crucial information and it help some a couple different levels. It tells you how great you are doing you know in what areas people like the most and you are going to find some you know similarities in all of the answers from that, but it also allows people that maybe unhappy customer a place to vent and hear you and be heard before they turn to social medial you know, bad mouth your product. So it allows a couple different factors but it allows you what -- it tells you what you are doing right and what you are doing wrong and sometimes that is the best feedback that we can use, it is like, oh, we found out that this product you know, this check out process was painful and there has been a couple of companies where I have ordered from recently getting ready for a trade show in May and I was like, I emailed them and I am like, holy smokes, guys, your checkout process is painful and I am technically savvy. Jeremy Reeves: Yeah, it is funny how many people it is like, it is actually challenging to give them money you know. Justin Christianson: Yeah. Another example there is user testing. Jeremy Reeves: Oh, that is a good one, yeah. Talk to us about that one. Justin Christianson: So there is solutions out there like usertesting.com that will put a bunch of users through your site. It kind of find friction point. It is not always your ideal target market, but it uncovers a lot of areas for improvement and I also kind of take this spot too where you can show your website to somebody that may not be your ideal customer and show it to him for 5 seconds and then turn off the monitor and then ask him some questions about how well your site. What your site is about. So that will help provide some necessary feedback so you can change because we have very short attention spans in today’s digital world and making sure you are relevant, you are capturing attention to somebody that might not necessarily even buy your product and they can understand it, chances are you are visitors will better understand it if you fix it. Jeremy Reeves: Nice, yeah, I love it. So what kind of tools do you use you know, I know there is a million different you know, different types of split testing tools and analytics and metrics I mean all that kind of stuff, but you know, tell us some of your favorites. Justin Christianson: Some of our favorites mixpanel has been really good. For some tracking, we use improvely as well. Our go to testing platform is optimizely. We are certified partners with them after test in pretty much every tool over the years. Then we used crazyegg and hotjar are 2 examples for heat map and click map software and just good old google analytics if set up properly is a very effective tool and you cannot beat the price. Jeremy Reeves: Yeah, right. It cannot be free. Yeah, and you know what, so 2 quick things here. One, another recommendation, I just found out mousestats. I just started using -- I found them with one of my latest clients maybe a couple of weeks ago and I really like that one, that is a good one and then with analytics, I wanted to just kind of reiterate that one because almost nobody has that set up correctly and all you have to do and you know, I understand because when you are looking at it, it is like, oh my God, this is so complex, this is you know, it is hard to set up, you have to do all the stuff, it is like, it is very technical all that kind of stuff, but you can go and just find somebody who specializes in that and pay under $500 and have it completely set up so it is like totally you know, just amazing and you can have every possible stat you will ever need you know, in your business I mean it is not that expensive to get somebody to professionally come in there and set everything up for you, you know what I mean. I do not have the exact price but you know, but it is going to depend on who you hire obviously, but you know, a couple $100 even say $100,000 I mean it is so worth it you know what I mean. Justin Christianson: Absolutely. Jeremy Reeves: And they are good I mean because you can you know, if you really dig in, I mean, there is so much data that they give you. You could find out you know the conversion rates from mobile versus desktop versus tablet, country you know, I mean time of day, language, I mean it is like, it is amazing what you can you know, what pages they -- like what page -- I have it set up for one of my side businesses that we know what blog post pages get the most opt ins and then you know what email campaigns or what individual emails within the email campaigns send the most traffic to the sales page and convert the highest. I mean, it is so easy to you know to win when you have that information. Justin Christianson: Yeah, it is and that is the sad thing is I heard a stat a while I go and I think I quote it in my book is that 97% of companies collect data on their visitors in some fashion but less than 30% actually use it for anything and that is pretty sad. I mean, your visitors are your biggest catalyst and if you are not paying attention to what they are telling you, you are leaving a truck load of money on the table. Jeremy Reeves: Yeah, definitely, definitely. Alright, well, hey you know, you gave a ton of you know, a ton of value bonds here. I am very excited about this. I think it is -- I feel like a lot of people want to split test. A lot of people know they should be split testing but most people do not you know what I mean, and I think you know, you might have a little bit more insight than me. I have not work in CRO world in a couple of years now, but I think most of it comes down to the fact that it perceived to be complex you know what I mean. It has perceived to be a lot of work you know, so I would just recommend everybody to just you know, get Justin’s book and you know I will tell you his website on where to get in and all that stuff in a minute, but just start split testing you know. At least, if you have the traffic I always tell people to get like a good baseline you know, there is no need to split test if you are getting like you know 1 sale a day because the test is going to take forever you know, just spend your time getting more sale first so you can do faster test, but you know if you are in the place where you know, where you should be split testing, you are getting you know at least a couple of sales a day, you are getting opt ins, you are getting you know, enough date where you cannot test and it is not taking a year to get a result then you definitely going to get into this because I have seen some huge, huge wins with my own businesses, my clients. I have seen other people (inaudible 36:44.1) it is incredible, and you just learned so much about your customers in the, you know, in the process and then it is kind of like the instead of the downward spiral it is the exact opposite you know, like every time you do a test and even if it wins or not you learn something and then you use that learning to then do better marketing and then you do better marketing, you get more sales you know, the whole process kind of repeats itself you know. So with that said, you know, do you have anything, is there anything that I missed that you know, if you were trying to -- if this were like you know, conversion rate optimization master class and you needed people to know before they get off the call. Is there anything that I missed. Any kind of question that I did not ask or any topic that we did not cover that you think people should know about before they start getting into this world. Justin Christianson: No, I guess the final thing is just do not get discouraged by the losing, the losers -- that is the biggest thing is. The common problem we see is people give up on testing too soon and they do not make it a part of their business and it should be a part of your company DNA just as much as getting traffic and setting up your ad sets in facebook campaign. You should have testing as part of that process too and do not just -- because you are not getting winner straight out of the gate, do not worry because for every winner it makes up for any losers. Jeremy Reeves: Yeah, yeah, exactly. I think a lot of people, a lot of people miss that you know, the losers you might only have you know, 2 or 3 weeks with kind of lower matrix but then you got a winner and you have that for life you know, so it totally, totally makes up for it. Justin Christianson: And that is -- the thing is, we are very competitive market in pretty much every market thanks to the internet, so if you are not testing your competition is and they are going to quickly swallow you up because they can spend more money on traffic. They can pay more to acquire customers and leads and if you are not testing, your competition is going to you know, take a bigger cut of the market share because you are not constantly evolving your marketing message through optimization and what worked 6 months ago is not necessarily going to work today. What it did not work 6 months ago might work today. So you have to constantly be changing, evolving, revising old test and just strive each day to be better than you were yesterday and optimization allows you to do that. Jeremy Reeves: Definitely, yeah. Well, hey man, I really enjoyed it. You are a smart man my man. So hey, you know, if anybody wants to get in touch with you, either to get your book or to have you guys you know, help them with their split testing or where can they find out more about you. Justin Christianson: Conversionfanatics.com there is a link on there to get the book. You can buy it directly on Amazon and then you can find me directly on all social platforms and stuff like going to clyxo.com/justinchristianson. Jeremy Reeves: Sounds good, and as usual, all those links will be in the show notes so do not even bother you know typing them in just go and click on the link, you will go right there from the show notes. It will be a lot faster and easier for you. I really appreciate you coming on. It was a blast. I hope everybody got a lot out of this and you know, if you are interested in split testing, I highly recommend reaching out to Justin either to get his book or you know and get on his list and see what he is doing or get in touch to you know, to possibly work with them or you know whatever kind of suits you best, and yeah, I mean you know, the biggest thing is just go out and do it, try it, you know, you are going to increase your results and then you know, like you said, you know, you increase it and then you increase the revenue coming in and then it allows you to make more sales and you get to do test faster and it is just you know, it is a cool you know good increase cycle. Justin Christianson: Yeah, it is all about compounding conversion increases. Jeremy Reeves: Yeah, exactly. It was a pleasure. We will talk to you soon. Justin Christianson: Alright, thanks Jeremy, I appreciate it.  

In this episode, I walk you through a new Facebook campaign I recently launched, which failed. We were testing out a new concept (which worked beautifully) but the actual campaign didn't do well. I walk you through exactly what it looked like and most importantly, why it DIDN'T work and what we're changing for round #2 to make it work like gangbusters. Enjoy! Resources Mentioned www.JeremyReeves.com Want To Work With Me? Visit http://www.JeremyReeves.com or email me at Jeremy@JeremyReeves.com Enjoy! Transcript: Hey, what is going on guys and girls, Jeremy Reeves here again with another episode of the sales funnel mastery podcast. Today, I am going to tell you about a giant mistake that I made last week, right. So, everybody you know, I kind of decided to do this podcast because everybody always talks about the amazing things that they did you know. They only talk about things that are going well you know. So let me -- I will kind of throw it in there real quick. I actually just got a testimonial from a coaching client of mine. We did a funnel day, kind of map out the funnel and then she (inaudible 0:38.5) coaching client to kind of you know, put the funnel together and she actually just emailed me over the weekend and told me that that new funnel is now converting 3 to 5 new customers every single day to a $350 product, so that is, whatever that is, like $1300 a day from nothing before that, and it is consistent too because it is through an automated webinar. We have this whole sequence set up. So I am pumped about that. So that is -- we will start off on a good note there. So what I would like to talk about is a huge mistake that I made with one of my own campaigns, right. So, if you are on Facebook maybe you saw one of my ads recently. I just post a campaign this morning. Essentially, what it was, was Facebook ads to a report, my top 10 resources and tools that I used to build sales funnels, okay. That was the free PDF download and then after that it was a $7 upsell to my 9 Growth Hacks for sales funnels, right. So 9 you know, funnel hacks if you will, right. And then after that was an upsell for copy templates, okay. So that is the funnel, alright. So, I want you to think for a second about why that funnel is a terrible funnel, okay. I put this together really fast, I was testing a concept, that is why I put it together really fast. I think we put it together like 2 hours. It was just stuff that I already had, kind of just threw it together, you know, threw some Facebook traffic, couple $100, Facebook traffic and I was testing something else. So it was not really like anything they put any thought into. It was more of a concept that I was testing, but I want you to think of that and think of the funnel and I want to see if you can figure out what the problem was, okay. So again, Facebook ads okay, to a landing page and opt in page that gave away a free report and that report was the top 10 tools and resources that I used to build sales funnels. The first product was 9 Sales Funnel Hacks, okay. So think about you know, think in your head what might be wrong there, okay. I am going to give you a second to think about that and then I will tell you what went wrong and I will tell you some of the stats too. Okay, so a couple of seconds. So did you come up with anything? Did you figure out what the problem was? So basically, if you think about it -- so let me start with -- I am going to give you an open loop here for a second, let me give you cliffhanger and I am going to tell you some of the stats first, right. So Facebook ads were doing well. Not usually relevant and I think that -- I think the relevancy scores maybe -- I think it was like 4.5 something like that, not great. I was paying $2 a click, so not great, alright on the relevancy side of things. And that I think was because, I just threw some -- again, we are just testing a really quick concept. I just kind of wanted to see how it played out. So I did not put a lot of time into thinking about the audience, alright. It was just a whole bunch of internet marketing gurus and you know, things like that. Actually we are testing a new thing with Facebook ads and that actually work out well. So that was kind of okay, you know. If I had somebody else doing it for me you know, which normally I would then it would do better and if I actually put some thoughts into it, you know, the relevancy score would go away up the cost per click especially with would come way down you know, $2 cost per click is way, way too much you know, it should be a $1 or less really. So that part was kind of okay for this test, right. The conversion rate was about 50%, alright. So that was awesome because we are getting $2 of click, we are getting roughly $4 cost per lead, alright and you know, and the various ads had different metrics, but that was like kind of the overall. The one that had most of the traffic was about 350. Another one was about I think it was about 5 and average about $4 cost per lead, alright, which you know, $2 cost per click, $4 cost per lead, gives you 50% opt in rate. So that of course was great, alright. So 50% opt in rate to the report offering you know, the resources and tools that I used to build funnels. So I got -- I think it was 75 people threw it and my goal -- now let me bring you up, let me pull up my thing here. This is what we needed to break even, okay. So this was going to be a campaign that we want to break even. I do not want to profit on it. I want to break even because I want to get new customers and essentially build my list and generate customers for free, okay, that is the whole purpose of this campaign, it is kind of the end game, it is something that I want to scale and spend you know, like $1,000 a day on or something like that you know, that would be, whatever that is you know, 500 new leads a day, something like that. That is kind of where I want to take this and you know, I would not be able to -- if I am going to scale it basically the further you scale, the less profitable you are going to be. So essentially, I want to break even on the first transaction, alright. That is the whole goal of this and to do that I made a little calculator and what we would -- the numbers we have to hit are $2.50 cost per lead okay, that is achievable considering we already hit $4 and the you know, the cost per clicks for like $2. So I could easily get that down to you know, $1 and get whatever like a 40% opt in rate and that would give me a cost per lead of $2.50, roughly. So and then we will do a 1000 leads total let us just say it is a day or month or whatever it is. So tripwire price $7 and an upsell for $97 and if we get a 10% upsell on the tripwire so 10 out of 100 people buy the $7 product and then 2 out of every 10 of the tripwire buyers by the upsell, alright. Very realistic numbers if you have the right offer and the right relevancy and the right targeting all that kind of stuff, that would essentially bring us to break even, okay. The revenues spent or the whatever it would be, the cost per lead would be $2.50, the value per lead in that scenario would be $2.64. So that is basically an ROI of 106% so it is just above break even. Those are the numbers that we are trying to hit with this new campaign. Now, what was the ROI? ROI was 0, right. So we ran 75 leads through the campaign and got 0 sales. Now, remember, we got 50% opt ins in the front end, that is great, it is more than where we wanted to be so that is awesome. We got 0% to buy the tripwire, okay, and by the way, this is only stats like immediate, they have not gone through the email sequence so we will get some sales, but it is not even near where we need to be because we need to be at 10% tripwire conversion, so I should have had 7sh sales by now or at least maybe like 4 and then let the email you know bring in the other 3 right. So here is the reason why this one did not work, right. The reason is because of relevancy, okay. Actually, the reason is because of its relevancy and a problem, alright. So there is basically 2 reasons. Number 1 relevancy. The thing we are selling is not relevant to why they join in the first place, okay. So they are coming on to the list opting in for resources, okay and then we are saying, hey, here are our sales funnel hacks you know, it is kind of a very -- it is a little bit of a generic product. It is actually really bad ass product for $7, you should go buy it from the website. It is really, really, really good for you know, I mean for you know, for a $197, but the topic of it is very generic. It is not very specific to solving a very specific problem okay, and when you are marketing especially on paid traffic, you need a very relevant problem to give very specific solution you know, to that problem, alright. So the problem was number 1, the relevancy between the opt in so the PDF that we are given away and the product, alright. So if you are looking at your funnels and you are having trouble with that, look at the relevancy between step 1 and step 2. So that was the first problem, but the -- I think the bigger problem here is that we are not attracting people with a specific problem, alright. So if you think about it, you know, the opt in -- everybody likes tools and resources and stuff like that, but think about the person who -- think about the people who are retracting, right. There is nothing wrong with them you know, specifically, but in terms of trying to sell them something we are not giving a solution to a specific problem okay. So they are downloading tools well, I mean what problem do they have. They are not dealing with anything specifically. So anything we offer to them is going to be like, you know, whatever, you know, they may or may not be dealing with that problem and you know, not only are we giving -- not only are we not giving a specific solution to a specific problem, but they may or may not even be having a problem and we are trying to sell them a generic product, alright. So you can see on both sides the opt in and the product that we are trying to sell are not really relevant to each other. You can make a case for it but they are not you know, specifically congruent to each other, not specifically relevant to each other and were attracting people that are not dealing with the specific problem that we can then solve for them, alright and that is why this campaign failed, okay. And again, you know, this is not normally -- I kind of did this to you know, show you guys and I realized it is kind of putting me in a bad light, but again, we put like 5 minutes of thought into this. It was like, hey, what do we have, let us just throw it together because we were testing a different concept, right, and so we were not really even looking for the results. We are kind of just testing something out that I cannot really reveal it yet. So the concept that we were testing actually did work. So we got a win out of it, but you know, I saw the results on this, I just look at it this morning and I wanted to show you guys number 1 that you know, if you are listening to somebody that is teaching you about marketing, they should be telling you what they are doing are wrong too, because I know that for me, and I am sure for you too, all of your biggest lessons that you have learned come from your mistakes, right, not from your wins. It is always the mistakes that lead to the lessons. So I wanted to show you this one and really to help you because a lot of people especially with paid traffic, it is hard to get to work you know, paid traffic and so you have to do a lot of testing and tweaking and you know, all kinds of different things. So if you are doing paid traffic you know, the big thing with paid traffic is you need -- you cannot be going to and reaching out to a general audience. You need to be going out and offering you know, picking segments of your audience and giving them a very specific solution, alright. So the campaign that we are putting together now is for that. It is actually going to be for emails you know, so it is going to be a whole you know, a whole solving email problems essentially. I would not go through the whole thing yet, but that is essentially what is going to be. It is going to be a very specific problem, very specific solution, it is going to be a very logical kind of chain of products you know, that we are going to do and I can pretty much guarantee you that is going to be 10 times better than this especially considering this one did not make any sales. Now again, (inaudible 13:28.1) 75 leads you know, we really do not have enough to see but you know, again, we were just testing a different concept, but I thought it was a good mistake, a good lesson for you guys and girls to work. So yeah, so that is it. I hope this helps you make 1 last mistake in your business. I am actually going to go to the drawing board a little bit later in my day today. It is gorgeous here in Pennsylvania, so I am actually going to be mapping out the next funnel later on today, you know, going to take out a cigar, you know, take my white board, take it outside, have a cigar and lay out the whole thing. That is what I do when working with clients is lay out because you need you know, you need the specific problem. You give them a specific solution you know, kind of take them down to funnel and that is what I normally do with clients. This time, you know, I am just testing on something real quick. But anyway, I hope that helps you. If you would like to chat about doing one of these funnels for your business whether it is you know, converting to your existing audience, whether it is taking your existing funnel and making it thousand times better, this is kind of like what we specialized in is taking something that is already working well and making it just completely taking it to the next level. That is kind of like what we did with Melissa, who is now making $1300 a day from her funnel you know, which before you know, we started working together, she was doing actually, I will do a separate case study just on her once I get her approval on everything. I can kind of walk you through the you know, everything that we did for you know, it was a pretty bad ass. She is a bad ass entrepreneur, but anyway, I hope you enjoyed this and reach out if you are interested in chatting about a funnel, otherwise, if you are enjoying this podcast by the way, everybody you know is telling me you know, what an amazing podcast is because I just laid it out there, I am honest, transparent and I know you guys like that. I know you guys like that I actually deliver value, believe it or not you know, a lot of podcast it is all about you know, they bring on interviews and it is all about their stories and all that freakin crap. So you know that and we do not do that here. So if you are enjoying this podcast, you know, tell all your friends about it. It is shred on social media. Give it a review that is the big thing here. That will lead to a bigger growth for the podcast you know. So anyway, I hope you enjoyed this and I will talk to you soon.  

In this episode, we talk with Paul Durante. Paul is a serial entrepreneur and has taken more chances in business than most people will in a lifetime! We start off talking about why courage is one of the most important traits an entrepreneur can have and move from there into several other topics you take take and implement in your business quickly. Enjoy!   Resources Mentioned *Play.it *Play.it/Jayabraham *abraham.com Want To Work With Me? Visit http://www.JeremyReeves.com or email me at Jeremy@JeremyReeves.com Enjoy! Transcript Jeremy Reeves: Hey guys and girls this is Jeremy Reeves with another episode of the sales funnel mastery podcast and today I have on the line, Paul Durante, and he is based -- he is at Manhattan. Actually, (inaudible 0:12.5) but 2-1/2 hours away and Paul is a -- he is a leading authority on entrepreneuralism, media, fine art, and also the cruise travel industry which -- Paul, I want to talk to you a little bit about that. He is also the co-host with Jay Abraham and they host The Ultimate Entrepreneur podcast and Jay as you guys probably know. I already have mentioned him like a thousand times probably. He is one of the biggest influences that has kind of you know, influenced my own line of thinking you know. There is a lot of people you could follow. Jay was one of my biggest influences, so I am pretty excited that Paul is on the line. We could talk about you know, his experiences (inaudible 0:49.1) what he has learned from them and you know some of the traits that they kind of used together to you know, do some world domination and that kind of thing. So Paul, introduce yourself, tell us a little bit about yourself and where people could find out about you, that kind of thing. Paul Durante: Well Jeremy, I appreciate being on the show and I appreciate your kind words. Yeah, my relationship with Jay is kind of (inaudible 1:09.7) story. My cruise ship business experience was kind of unique story. So where (inaudible 1:16.1). Jeremy Reeves: Yeah, sounds good. So, I guess let us start -- let us see, I know one of your big topics do you like to talk about is that you know, the courage to be an entrepreneur and I think it is a good topic you know. So I would like to hear a little bit more about your thoughts on that. So I guess let us start there and then we will kind of see where it goes. Paul Durante: Entrepreneur takes a lot of (inaudible 1:43.3) to some people use courage, some people guts you know, it is easy -- and I do not want to (inaudible 1:52.0) people who have (inaudible 1:53.4) because that is their performance you know they work hard and many people go to college and (inaudible 1:57.4) people telling me to do, so I decided to go (inaudible 2:12.3) and that is when you really had to get courageous because (inaudible 2:16.7) 2 weeks. It can be a little bit (inaudible 2:21.5). Jeremy Reeves: Sure, yeah, absolutely, nice. So is there anything -- how do you think a lack of courage, holds people back in their business. Paul Durante: (inaudible 2:35.0) lack of courage they perhaps had a lack of belief in themselves. Jeremy Reeves: Okay. Paul Durante: I think there is a lot of people out there who have a lot (inaudible 2:43.8) to lot of courage but for whatever reason, they think that they cannot do it. By the way, the word can’t I do not like saying it, it is not really in my vocabulary you know (inaudible 2:55.5) because I read a study one time about word actually shuts you down. If people say can’t you know, I can’t lose weight, I can’t do this, I can’t start my own business. It is over before you even began. So I think there is a lot of people out there who you know have courage but they do still (inaudible 3:15.9) lot of belief and I think that is one you have to work on personal whether you know, you have some positive (inaudible 3:22.8) you have a mentor. You read some books. Once you have the belief, you can do a lot of things and perhaps you do not think you were capable of doing. Jeremy Reeves: Okay. Do you think, do you think courage -- how do you think courage and confidence kind of relate to each other. Is it the same thing. Is it -- are there differences in that. Paul Durante: You know, the word that I like to use is posture. I think a lot of people in business need to have a lot of solid posture. If you know that you know that you know, if you are really good at something like I am assuming if someone is going to be an entrepreneur they are going to know the subject matter and if you do not know the subject matter then you are going to have to do a lot of research and learn the subject matter, but assuming, assuming you really know your expertise (inaudible 4:09.0) to be able to say to someone (inaudible 4:16.0) I may not know this, but I really know this and when you have that kind of posture, when you have that kind of attitude, you conquer the world. Jeremy Reeves: Yeah, definitely, and you know what, I know that in my own life. A lot of the times, that I you know, basically, let me bring you back to this. A lot of the biggest breakthroughs that I have had in my career have been from doing things where I was scared or nervous you know, to do it you know, and then I kind of push myself to challenge myself and do it and say, you know what, you just kind of get this done and a lot of those were some of the biggest breakthroughs that I have ever had you know. So I definitely agree with that and I think it is you know, if you are only playing -- think about like weightlifting you know, the only way that you can get bigger and stronger is if you push yourself past what your currently comfortable doing you know. If you are lifting you know, 50 pounds and then next year you are still lifting 50 pounds, you are going to be the exact same size, the exact same amount of strength that you can produce, that kind of thing you know, so I totally agree. Paul Durante: Well, I think the word scared. I felt you know, a lot of people look at that as a negative. So I think you can turn that around and turn it into positive. Everybody gets scared. Everybody, when you try something new, you know, I can give you example after example of things that I have done in my past that I was scared to do first time. Bungee jumping, making the cold call. You know, the first time you do something like that you kind of get a little bit scared (inaudible 5:52.4) weightlifting great athletes before big game if they do not get nervous they are not human. If you are (inaudible 5:58.9) World Series and you are not a little bit scared, (inaudible 6:05.0) negative energy (inaudible 6:09.6) and you can actually be (inaudible 6:13.0) so I do not think anybody should be scared. I think what people should do is not (inaudible 6:20.9). Jeremy Reeves: Yeah, yeah, absolutely and Paul you are breaking up just a little bit. I can kind of get on the words but some of them are kind of crackling a little bit I do not know if you (inaudible 6:29.6) like a window or anything like that, but just so you know. Paul Durante: Okay, absolutely I am not sure why. Let me -- okay, Jeremy Reeves: Yeah. It is coming (inaudible 6:38.6) a little bit, but anyway, not to break the you know, the flow too much. So I guess, you know, tell us, give me an example of one or two of times in your business I mean it could be in any of your businesses or even client business or like any, just any examples that you have of when either you or that other person was you know, kind of scared to do something and they master up the courage to do it and it led to a big you know, big breakthrough in the business whether it is brand new or whatever it is. Paul Durante: I will give you great example. My partner, Jay, who host the Ultimate Entrepreneur was made to star the show. I love to say that I am Robin and he is Batman. So when I first met Jay, this kind of (inaudible 7:23.4) what we are talking earlier but when I first met Jay, I was just a fan from a distance. I was introduced to Jay via (inaudible 7:32.4) for years and I attended his (inaudible 7:36.7) and one day, I signed up for a program called Power Talk, which was a monthly CD with only interviewed various achievers and just 1 month I got the CD and he is talking about this guy, Jay Abraham. I have never heard of Jay Abraham and I listened to the CD so many times. I actually thought I had it memorized (inaudible 7:59.0) was memorized because the guy was you know, (inaudible 8:02.8) started it off by saying, Today, we are talking about sales and marketing and I (inaudible 8:06.0) okay that is great (inaudible 8:07.3) marketing entrepreneurship. Then he began talking about how this young man, Jay Abraham is brilliant. He is genius. I have never really heard Tony talking such (inaudible 8:16.4) terms about somebody like that before. So he got my attention and then I listened to it and by the way, I would encourage anybody to grab that Power Talk CD in fact it is on our Ultimate Entrepreneur site that is like show 23 and 24. It is a 2 part show but that is the original -- Tony actually interviewed Jay, so I listened to this over and over again for about 2 weeks in the gym every morning and then I (inaudible 8:43.3) the courage and I called Jay and I did not get a hold of him right away. I talked to his assistant and said, listen, he does not know me, I am just a fan, I heard him on a Power Talk CD. I would like to talk to him. I have a business. I am trying to grow and after 3 to 4 days I finally got (inaudible 8:59.6) and Jay was very, very gracious. He gave me a lot of help, a lot of assistance for free by the way because that is the way he is and I began building this relationship with Jay from afar you know, I am in New York and he is in LA and then after about 6 months of him helping me grow my business, I had to go to LA on business and I said, Jay, listen, you have been helping me for 6 months, can we at least go for lunch, can I at least buy you lunch and so I went to his office and we ended up hanging out for 2 to 3 hours and it was so funny because I you know, he had no idea that I have background in media because we were talking about cruise ship business which you know, I have been talking about (inaudible 9:41.7) and so we almost talk about cruise ships and growing the cruise ship business and then at some point in the conversation I just looked at him and I said, have you ever had a TV show or have you ever had a radio show. And he looked at me and kind of smile and said, there are people asked me that and the answer is no because I never had the right partner and I said, well, you do now. And I told him about my extensive background in TV and radio and so we decided to do a pilot and so I literally took him you know, I flew back a couple of weeks later. We went to a little studio and we put together a demo. We sort of played the radio. Jay is amazing from stage you know if any (inaudible 10:22.3) Jay Abraham on stage, he takes questions from the audience and he does it in rapid fire you know, he does it in rapid-fire format and he is almost like a doctor, like a surgeon, he knows exactly what (inaudible 10:35.1) Jeremy Reeves: Yeah, he does. Paul Durante: And so that is what we did on the radio. I have people phoned up and he had no idea of the questions that we are going to be asking him and he did it out of the park and it was unbelievable and so I (inaudible 10:49.0) this little demo, this little you know, 3 to 5 minute demo and I (inaudible 10:53.0) major media companies, ABC etc., etc. and everybody loved it and everybody saw the same thing you know, this was a great pilot you need to do it for real. And so, to answer your question about being fearful, Jay and I, we sent a bunch of money and we rented (inaudible 11:12.4) 2 hours of airtime in Los Angeles on a Sunday and we did a 2-hour live show. Now my background is in broadcast media but I have been on the air in quite a few years and he had never done a live 2-hour call show and believe me, there was more than a few butterflies in both of our stomach because we did not want to look like idiots and we have some big guests. We had FUBU founder Daymond (inaudible 11:38.1) We have Mark Cuban on, you know, Dallas Mavericks owner. Also from Shark Tank, we have Tony Robbins on. We have Brian Tracy on. So the 6 are really (inaudible 11:50.2) we had some really big name guests for our pilot plus we are taking a live calls and yeah we were scared, but we figured it out and we pulled it off. Jeremy Reeves: Nice, yeah, I love that story and while you were talking it reminded me of -- I mean you know, we are talking about this. I am giant fan of Jay. I have -- Oh my God probably close (inaudible 12:12.9) he has ever done. I have that -- the thing he did (inaudible 12:16.3) 2 years ago something like that, the hard drive thing that he had. So I have heard thousand things and one of the things that always stuck on my mind is when he was just starting off, he would just go into businesses and ask, he just sit in the back in the room as they were like conducting their you know, business meetings and that is how he learned you know. I can see it took a lot of courage from him because he was you know, just as young guy, and he was like, Hey, can I just kind of be in there as you guys you know, doing your thing and you know, it kind of the same thing and that is one of the things that really you know, he was just go in and analyze everything you know, his mind just soaks up everything in yes, so it is interesting you know, with that and I am firm believer that you know, the more -- the more things you do that you are uncomfortable with, the faster your growth is going to be you know. I am huge believer in that. So let us switch gears a little bit. Tell me a little bit about your you know, the cruise industry and the business that you built and some of the things that you know, the marketing strategies that you used to grow that you know, tell us the story about that. Paul Durante: Well, a long time ago, in my youth, I deejayed on a cruise ship you know, before I became a radio deejay and a television host, I spent a little bit of time travelling the world working in the night club of a cruise ship which was a lot of fun. Great way to get some tan and see the planet earth from other unique perspective and so I had a little bit of experience in the cruise ship industry but that was pretty much the extent of it. And fast forward, many, many years, I had an opportunity to (inaudible 13:59.6) we were selling arts on cruise ships and that is the business that you know, I had a lot of expertise in the art world but opening up a business selling art on cruise ships you know, it is a very, very unique experience and that was actually the business that I called Jay about. He helps me grow my business very, very rapidly and yeah, all businesses are unique and all businesses face challenges and you know, you have all kinds of ups and downs and so I would encouraged anybody starting a new business or somebody who has an existing business you know, you have to find yourself a mentor. For me, that was Jay Abraham. Jeremy Reeves: Yeah, definitely. You know, if you are looking back sometimes it is a little bit easy to look back you know, than like when you are in the moment you know, what were some of the big, the things that helped you grow the fastest you know, because I am sure you are doing a lot of different strategies and tactics and things like that. What were like you know, maybe 1, 2, or 3 of the biggest things that have the you know, the biggest impact on your rapid growth. Paul Durante: Yeah, that is easy. So looking back at my career and I would encourage anybody to do this now. I do not get paid by him. I do not get percentage from the sales but Tony Robbins changed my life. I remember, and this goes way back, this is when his program was still on because that is what I did (inaudible 15:22.8) you know 20 years ago and with my little walkman, if anybody remembers what that is, but if you put a cassette in a little walkman. I remember actually when I was radio deejay, after my show would end I would (inaudible 15:40.4) and I listened Tony Robbins for 45 minutes or however long it was and I obtained all the exercises and I wrote it all down and check the diary, kept the notes and I still review those notes from time to time. So doing personal (inaudible 15:54.7) Tony Robbins you know certainly changed my life. I had to become a voracious reader you know like when you go to college or high school you are forced to read and I think a lot of people (inaudible 16:06.7) you know okay that is great no more education, I am done, but really (inaudible 16:11.7) and it is cliché to say but it is true. After you finished school that (inaudible 16:15.8) education (inaudible 16:16.6) So my career started to advance when I took the time and spent a little bit of money and try to improve myself and it all began with Tony Robbins and then I became a voracious reader. Jeremy Reeves: Okay. Was there anything you know in your time, kind of being mentored by him and even Jay you know, whatever (inaudible 16:38.9) personally you know, because I am big -- I was just actually right before this, I was the one being interviewed for another podcast and he asked you know, the top 3 books that I you know, have had the biggest influence on me and you know, Jay’s book was actually number 1 that always is and you know -- Paul Durante: Which one. Jeremy Reeves: The How to get everything, what is it, how to get everything you want from what you have or what is the -- yeah, you know what I mean. For some reason, it is on my book case you know, right in front of me but I cannot read it from here. How to get everything you -- the exact wordings not coming to me, but you know, it is what I am talking about but one of the you know, there is always like, I am huge believer in you know, you should read business books because you know, you learn the strategies, you learn the techniques and tactics for growing your business that kind of thing but then you also have to grow as a person. I feel like the faster you grow personally, the faster your business is going to grow you know. So what was it about Tony stuff because he covers a lot of things. I am a huge fan of Tony as well. He covers a lot of different topics but you know, was there anything about what he teaches that really kind of catapulted your own like personal growth. Paul Durante: Well, earlier Jeremy, we are talking about fear and you know, Tony taught me how to harness that fear. Tony taught me how to you know, if you follow Tony’s work, it is so much more than personal development. Tony -- it is personal development, it is maturity, it is your physical body, it is your emotion, it is everything and you do not learn that kind of stuff in school. You just -- they do not teach that in high school. They do not teach that in college and so Tony taught me how to be really well rounded. Tony taught me how to think better. By the way, my favorite book of all time, the book that I believe is the best business book I ever read which was actually not intended to be a business book is Dr. Gary Chapman’s The 5 Love Languages and if you go into a bookstore you will find that in the relationship section and The 5 Love Languages is actually a relationship book, it talks about the 5 basic needs that we all have which are quality time, physical touch, words of affirmation, gifts, (inaudible 19:15.2) but that book, I had given that book away many, many times like 10 times. In fact, I am also extending to order on Amazon every time I give it away, I buy another one. And the reason why I recommended so highly is because business and (inaudible 19:34.1) is all about relationships and if you could understand the person you are speaking with now that could be somebody that you are in a relationship with, that could be somebody that you are working with, that could be somebody that you want to work with, it could be a complete stranger. That book taught me how to relate better with people and so I tell people all the time that if you are in a relationship by the book, if you are in business by the book, if you want to be in business, if you want to be in a relationship by the book. Jeremy Reeves: Just buy it and do not ask questions. Paul Durante: Yeah, and it is an easy read too. Jeremy Reeves: Yeah, I have read it. I had -- me and my wife both read it and figured out what our was and all that kind of thing, it really does, I mean it makes a big, big difference you know. It really comes back to just understanding how other people work like understanding that not everybody thinks like you do. It took me -- it really hit me probably about 1-1/2 years ago that lesson you know, that like -- when you really truly understand that everybody thinks differently and when you can spot how they think and then talk to them in that way, it is I mean, just the impact of talking to people and the you know, the quality of relationships that you can build and the effectiveness that you can have when you are speaking to somebody is just, I mean it is absolutely just amazing and even you know, saving arguments and things like that like I mean just for example you know, my wife and I you know, if she is kind of (inaudible 21:01.7) about something and then -- instead of just like reacting instantly, and you know, I get mad, she gets mad whatever. If I actually sit and think about you know, hey, why don’t I put myself in her shoes for 2 seconds. It instantly diffuses the situation because then it is like, oh, yeah, I can see where you are coming from you know, how about we do this or how about you know, sorry I said this or you know, whatever the case is but it is pretty profound when you do that. So I would recommend that too I actually never -- I never thought of that book in that way but now that you say it, I can see -- actually I might go back and re-read with that kind of frame you know. Paul Durante: Well, first of all, I am impressed (inaudible 21:39.5) second of all I am impressed that you have implemented the principles and (inaudible 21:45.3) I would encourage you to go back and re-read it and read it in a you know, (inaudible 21:50.3) and I will give you an example and this is you know, this is just off the top of my head but you know, (inaudible 21:58.3) you know, Dr. Chapman calls one of 5 Love Languages and you could always tell when somebody’s physical touch by the way, they shake your hands. If somebody you know, if somebody when you shake their hand and they give you the 2 hand shake you know, they put 1 hand on top of the other or maybe they escort you into the office and they just touch your shoulder a little bit and they escort you, you know that (inaudible 22:20.3) physical touch. Jeremy Reeves: Sure, yeah. Paul Durante: And if somebody compliments you because you know, the principles of the book are or the (inaudible 22:28.4) principle behind the book -- and so if you can give it to them first it gets them to like you that much faster. Jeremy Reeves: Yes. Paul Durante: If somebody -- if you meet somebody and they are very complimentary, hey I really like your suit, hey, I really love your brief cause. You know that they are words of affirmation. So you get back. I am telling you it is one of the best -- it was not intended to be business book. What I am telling you it is one of the best business books of all time. Jeremy Reeves: Yeah, serious thing. I am definitely -- that is going to be -- I am putting that (inaudible 22:58.2) the top of my list again and I mean honestly, if you think about it, it is kind of like, like a lot with (inaudible 23:04.1) it is a lot like that like just mirroring other people you know what I mean, but you are doing it in a way that they naturally respond like you are not mirroring their breath or their you know movements, but you are mirroring their whatever you would call you know, how they look at the world essentially you know. Paul Durante: Yeah, you are mirroring who they are. Jeremy Reeves: Yeah, yeah. I love that. Paul Durante: And you have to do it with sincerity. If (inaudible 23:28.5) sincerity, they will know. Jeremy Reeves: Yeah, yeah. That is a good point. That is a good point. But, yeah, that is interesting. By the way, the book was -- I had to look it up because it was bothering me, Getting Everything You Can Out Of All You’ve Got. So let us see, let’s wrap it up with the final question. What are the things -- I was like to -- I am always interested you know, because a lot of people talk about their successes, but I always like to know you know, kind of frustrations and things like that and even how you overcame them. So, if you are looking back over your career and you can pick any part in your career. It could be the very beginning when you are just starting. It could be like that point when things are starting to take off. It could be you know, now when you are kind of at the pinnacle and you know, there are still little things that frustrate you and challenges that you are facing you know. What are one or two of the biggest frustrations or challenges that you faced in your business and how did you -- how did you look at it and kind of see like, okay, you know, this is -- this is a problem we have to fix this you know, how did you fix the you know, the big challenge and the frustration. Paul Durante: Jeremy, that is the million dollar question. I have failures and challenges every single day and people -- if people tell you they do not have failures and challenges every single day then they are probably lying to you. Business and life can be filled with challenges. So, you know, failures, Oh my gosh, you know, if this show was like a 7-hour show I still need more time to talk about all my failures and same thing with challenges. I think you know, I think how I would rather answer the question is the way I look at it now you know, now after doing this for a little while, I am a little bit more seasoned. I think you have to look at (inaudible 25:22.2) perspective (inaudible 25:23.7). You know, when you look at something like when you look at a failure, when big (inaudible 25:29.1) did anybody die you know, hopefully the answer is no. If you are in business and nobody die, well, okay, then you are going to live to see another day and new ones as well like when somebody gets -- I think the biggest challenge is that I have had, had come you know, when I am working with someone and really you are working with somebody you know, if you are in business, you are dealing with customers, clients, partners every single day and you have to understand that you know, as you said earlier you know, people do not always see things the way you see them and you have to take a setback and you have to you know, (inaudible 26:05.7) 30,000 foot view from above and look down at the big picture and you have to realize you know, perspective like is this really big deal and often times it is not. You know, even when there is a major catastrophe in the (inaudible 26:20.3) like when you are going to die when you are 100 years old and you are looking back at your life you know, are you going to look back and go oh my gosh, it was such a terrible thing that happened to me, probably not you know, so I think that what people need to realize is that perspective (inaudible 26:35.8) can really play a key role in their happiness and in their success because really, you know it is like that old book, do not (inaudible 26:42.2) small stuff and it is all small stuff that should really (inaudible 26:45.4). Jeremy Reeves: Yeah, definitely, I love it. Absolutely and it is funny. I actually did something similar actually this week, that you know, something was bothering me, it was like, ah, you know what, the end of the world is coming and then I kind of sat and I was like you know what, it is really not you know, it is not even, it is really not a big deal you know, the grand scheme things and it is funny when you flipped the switch like that how fast you mindset changes you know, you could be sitting there like you know, sitting depressed you cannot get to move any work on and you cannot focus and then once you have that one thought you can sit there for 2 days you have that one thought like, hey you know what, it is really not a big deal you know, I am going to look back from this you know, next week I probably would not remember about this you know, let alone next month or year or 10 years or whatever obviously that depends on the size of the thing that you are going through but it is funny once that thought hits your brain, it is just you instantly feel better you know, so I think people should you know, I mean create yourself a note you know. I do not have a good quote off the top of my head I wish I did but you know, think of some kind of good quote, look up good quotes about like kind of flipping your minds then looking at things you know, it is not a big deal you know and then every time you feel like that just open your drawer and look at it to remind yourself because it is easy to fall into that trap of like you know, you fall and you are like the downward spiral where you are feeling bad and then you (inaudible 28:11.6) it is hard to kind of get out of that you know that pit you know but anyway yeah so. Hey Paul, it was a pleasure having you on here, it was really interesting hearing your story and how you work with Jay and what you are doing in your life and you know, the whole lot of thing about courage, that was a big thing for me and I think honestly the biggest thing for me was the you know, The 5 Love Languages and re-looking at that at a different you know, different view point, that is going on my to do list. As soon as we get off the phone here. So I hope everybody realizes how impactful that is like when you just understand people especially you know, this is you know, it is going to make more of an impact obviously like a one-on-one or even in the small group setting but you can -- there are a lot of insights you can take from that you know, kind of mass marketing like for emailing people if you are talking to groups of people that kind of thing. Just understanding you know, looking at it through their viewpoint you know, it can make a dramatic difference in the way that you impact people, and the way that you can persuade people and everything else you need to do in business to help grow and succeed but anyway, so I really appreciate you coming on here. Before you get off, tell everybody you know, how can they get in touch with you if they want to you know, do whatever you want them to do. Paul Durante: Well, I appreciate that yeah, just sort of (inaudible 29:36.7) the whole thing. You know, everybody is self-centered. Everybody cares about themselves more than they care of other people but if you look on yourself all the time, you are not going to get a lot done and people are not going to like you (inaudible 29:50.6) absolutely right. Put the other people you know, put the other person first you know, Jay you know, Jay likes talking about adding value, Jay always says he wants to add a value first and he also talks about never doing anything for money. Not like if you are doing something for money you are doing it wrong, what you want to be doing is you want to be helping people. If you help enough people then the money will come and so you know, I like to use the word serving Jay uses the term adding value but yeah if you are serving and adding value, things are going to work out and I appreciate you asking for my contact information. I would encourage everybody please to go to our show The Ultimate Entrepreneur (inaudible 30:37.6) has a great website called Play.it just like it sounds Play.it and our show was Play.it/Jayabraham just like it sounds.  We have got a lot of really great content their you know, Mark Cuban (inaudible 30:57.6) Daymond John, and Tony Robbins some people that you have not heard off but were brilliance in business. So our content information is there and people can also reach in by email (inaudible 31:08.8) abraham.com. Jeremy Reeves: Perfect, yeah, and as always, we will have everything that he just mentioned in the show notes so if it is hard to write all that down just go in the show notes and click and the link in there and you will go -- you will go right there, it is a lot easier. Yeah, Paul, I really appreciate you coming on and we will talk to you soon. Paul Durante: That is great. Thanks Jeremy. Jeremy Reeves: Sure, you too.

Welcome back to another must-hear episode. In it I move away from talking about funnels and into something MUCH more important. Getting freedom from your business. Most people start business so they never have a boss again, yet their own business ends up owning them just as bad (or worse) than a boss would! In this episode I discuss why that happens and what you need to do to start living a more present, joyful life while growing your business. Enjoy and let me know what you think!   Resources Mentioned * JeremyReeves.com Want To Work With Me? Visit http://www.JeremyReeves.com or email me at Jeremy@JeremyReeves.com Enjoy! Transcript Hey guys what is going on. It is Jeremy Reeves here again and welcome back to another episode of the sales funnel mastery podcast. So it is Monday morning now that I am recording this and my wife just took my son, Connor. He has autism. It is autism awareness month this month, so I am actually thinking of doing some kind of cool thing for the entire month of April. I would have had it up right now, but I spend the weekend with Connor and Logan, my 2-year-old. So anyway, I spent the weekend with the boys. I did not work at all, actually, I did a tiny little bit while they are sleeping, but basically, when they were awake I did not work at all and the whole weekend I was -- I was totally present with the boys you know, my wife, we have been doing a thing lately. We actually just started this thing were we actually rate each other. Once a quarter, we rate each other on basically on how father, husband, and lover, right. So we give each other a score you know, out of 10 for each of those things and then for her obviously it is you know, lover, wife, and mother. So what we do is every quarter, we do that, we give each other score 1 to 10 on each of those things and then we come up with one thing that we can change. One action that we can change to improve that score. So my thing this time, we just did it on I think it was Friday, I do not know, I think it is Friday, but my kind of change that I am making this time was -- when I come up and I have kind of done this a little bit you know, over time, but I wanted to do it just to see the impact to that. I want to make sure that I am doing consistently you know. And so what it is, is when I come up from work, I typically work from -- I get up around 6 o’clock. I typically work to about 3 to 3:30 something like that and then you know, my boys wake up from their naps around 2:30 or 3:00 something like that. They go to bed around 7 or 7:30. So in between that time, in between -- when I am done working in 3 or 3:30 until 7 when they go to bed, I am going to be totally unplugged. Every single day, totally unplugged. Basically, whenever I am going to be with them, I am going to be totally unplugged, so I can be present with them, okay. By the way, I am going to show you how this you know, make sense, business wise, okay. So I did that over the weekend and I did it Friday, I did it Saturday, and I did it Sunday and I got spent a ton of time with the boys and the impact that it had on them was profound you know. Logan came up to me, he is my 2-year-old. He came up to me actually, he will be 3 in a little over month. He came up to me and just randomly, we are playing on the floor, I think we are playing Legos, we are doing a lot of Legos over the weekend and he just came up to me and gave me a hug and said, “Daddy, you are my best friend” you know, and I teared up a little bit and got all you know, weepy. And then Connor, did the same thing. He just, he came up to me, he gave me a hug and he said, “Daddy, I love you” you know, and it was random and it has happened to me a couple of times you know, they have done it a couple of times before and I realized that every single time that they did that I was 100% present with them. I did not have my phone, I did not have my laptop open, there was just me and them and you know, obviously, Katie was there. Actually, this weekend, she was not, because she -- when Logan did that, she was out with Connor, so it was just me and Logan because -- no actually, it was me and Connor when Connor did because Logan woke up and he had to go to doctor, he had a hip thing. So anyway, it got me started thinking about you know, what would happen if you are business. If you were totally 100% present in your business. You were not worried about you know -- and your building business so that you could be present with other people okay. You were not worried about you know, you are not on all the time you know, it is so easy to get wrapped up and being just on all the time and it does not let your mind think. It does not let your mind you know, kind of you know, chill out because your best ideas, your most creative thoughts are going to happen when your mind is peaceful, okay. It is going to happen when your mind is calm and rested. It is not going to happen when you are frantic every day running around you know. I know there are a lot of people you know, (inaudible 4:39.1) and (inaudible 4:40.0) those guys are awesome, I love them, especially Gary V. I love listening to his stuff, but you have to you know, if you were that kind of person, you want to live that kind of life, that is fine you know, you should listen to them, but I do not think that that is how a normal person should live you know. I do not think that is how an everyday person should live. If you are going out and you are trying to do world domination. You are trying to be the next Steve Jobs from Apple or you know, anybody like -- anybody trying to change the world okay. You do not have to -- you have to give yourself permission to not have to be on all the time you know. Go and meditate, just walk down. They have a practice out in (inaudible 5:26.8) cooking show and they were talking about in India, people they just laid down on the street and they just kind of chill you know which I think, I mean maybe that is a little bit too far, but it goes to show you like, just relax sometimes you know. This is something that I am going to start talking about a little bit more. It has profound implications on your business because when you, when you allow your mind to rest, you become more creative okay. And what most people do not realize most people, they have this thing with being busy you know, Oh, busy, I am busy, Oh my God I am so busy. Busy, busy, busy you know and they think it is a good thing, but in reality it is a horrible thing. If you are talking to somebody and you are like, Oh, you know man, I have been so busy lately you know, well I have not been able to stop. You are saying it like, like you are wearing it like a ring of pride. You might want to consider that maybe that is not a good thing you know. Have you ever thought about that. Maybe that is not a good thing. Because what happens when you are busy, busy, busy all the time and you are just working, constantly working you know. Who are you, who are you leaving out in your life you know. Are you neglecting your wife or your husband. Are you neglecting your kids. Are you neglecting your friends. You have to think about that and what is the most important to you, you know. A lot of people say, Oh, well you know, my business is my life you know. My business is my passion. I never work a day in my life. I mean, that is the biggest pile of bullshit ever you know. Maybe that is true. Listen, I love working too. When I work from 6 to 3, I love it. I love sitting down and writing copy and coming up with new marketing strategies. Coming up a new plans, I am doing that today actually it is a dead Friday because I am planning for the next work. But consider this, what if you had more than one passion in your life. What about that you know. I know maybe that is a radical concept you know, people are like, Oh, I work 14 hours a day, 16 hours a day because I love business. Well, really, do you have no other passions in life. Is your life that sad that you love one thing. You do not love your spouse. You do not love your kids. You do not have hobby, I mean, is that it, is that what your life is, you just work. I mean, you know, think about that for a minute and see you know -- and it is okay if that is how you are right now, it is okay because you can change and look, if your life I mean if you are just -- you feel totally driven to just whatever it is you are going to completely change the world okay that is fine, if that is what you truly, truly love is you know, just working all the time, that is fine. And also keep in mind that it is okay to do this for periods of time. So for example, a good example of this, I have been talking with a lot of people in the SAS industry lately. A lot of people in the SAS industry, they are kind of like lifestyle is -- they work really, really, really hard for like you know, just say like 2 to 5 years and then they sell the company for a couple of million dollars and then they take a couple years off, okay, that is their lifestyle and if that is what you love, that is fine, I can totally dig that you know, but you have to have you know, I like to live my life in a series of sprints. So when I am working, I am working. I do not sit here and screw around, sit on Facebook and you know, most people are so unproductive, it is unbelievable. When I am working, I am sprinting at work okay. And I can guarantee you that -- no offense to anybody listening, I can guarantee you that when I am in focus mode, I get more done than in 1 day than probably 90% of people listening to this in a week. I guarantee you that. If we sat down and say okay, what do you get done this week, and what do you get done this week. I guarantee -- maybe not this audience, maybe not you guys because you guys are a lot more savvy than the kind of the average entrepreneur, but just say like you know, if I took my work let us just say against the average entrepreneur, and it was 1 day of mine versus 1 week of the average person saying they are “busy.” I guarantee you, I get more done in 1 single day than most people doing a week and it is because when I am working, I am 100% working okay. When I am not working, I am 100% not working and it allows my mind to rest. It allows me to be more creative. It allows me to be more happy. It allows me to be, to have more longevity you know. I used to -- years ago, before I started doing this, I used to get really bad tension headaches in my head and it would knock me out of business, it would knock me out of working for a couple of days at a time. That is your body’s way -- if you are getting sick a lot, if you sore a lot, if you are tired a lot, that is your body’s way of telling you, you need to slow down you know. There is nothing wrong with slowing down. It is coming up on golf season now you know. It is April 4th, you know the day that I am recording this. It is starting to get in a golf season here in Pennsylvania, and I am going to try to make it a habit every single Friday afternoon, I am going to go golfing okay. Now, maybe won’t be every Friday afternoon, maybe every other one, maybe would be 2 out of 3 whatever it is, but the point is I am going to take a lot of Fridays off because look, I like to go out, I like to take a beer with me, have a cigar, go out for you know 2 hours or whatever and go golfing whether just by myself or with some of my buddies you know and just kind of get out in nature, just get away from everything and let my mind you know, chill. People do not understand I should do an entire podcast on creativity and how your mind works. In fact, actually, I know somebody then, I should interview about that. But you know, basically, the point is, your mind is set up to have a lot of input you know, to be able to put a lot of information into your brain and then let it rest okay. Your brain, when you do that, it comes into your conscious and then when you rest, it allows your subconscious to process everything, that is like sleep you know. It is the exact same ting except you can do it during the day too. I do a lot of this when I am copywriting. If I am trying to come up with a big idea, an angle, or a hook for a client, a lot of times what will I do is just bury myself in the research for you know, 2, 3, 4, or 5 hours and then I will take a nap you know, and I know, Oh my God, you take a nap during the day, Yes. I do a lot actually. In fact, I might today depending on -- actually, no, I cannot today because I have meetings throughout the afternoon, but a lot of times, I do and a lot of times I do it if I am trying to solve a problem because again, if you put the problem in your mind you take a nap, a lot of times that solution is going to come up while you are sleeping. A lot of old copywriter, Euguen Schwartz and stuff that is where I learned it from. He used to do that for you know, for copywriting, but it is applicable to anybody listening to this you know. So anyway, do you know -- I know it is a little bit of a rant I kind of just got on here and just started talking. I really do not have an outline for this whatsoever, but what I want you to think about, I just want you to challenge the notion that being busy is a good thing okay. For some people, it is okay you know, if that is what you really, really, really love and you get so fired up about working that you know, it just consumes your life then okay, you know, maybe you know, if you do not want it -- like for example, if you do not have a family you know, if you do not have a ton of friends, if you do not want any of that stuff okay, then working a lot is fine. I mean, I still would not, but you know, but I mean if you have a family, if you have friends you know, think of them in your life too and think of your own happiness you know, a lot of people have this like false pretense that they are happy when they are really not you know, if you really go and -- go take a hike you know, go take a 4, 5, 6 hour hike that is also coming up hiking season. I will be taking time off work to go into the woods and hike. Take a hike and really think about this stuff you know. I am not saying that anything is wrong. I want you to understand that. If that is what you truly want to do is be “busy” all the time and that is what you truly love to do that is fine, okay. Totally respect it, but what I do not want you to do is think that you are supposed to be busy all the time, so you make yourself busy all the time, but you do not actually want to be busy all the time, okay, and it takes a while to truly get this you know, it takes a while to truly sync in, it did for me. There is a lot of guilt that comes, like if you just stop working at noon and that is what I want you to do you know, if you are kind of resonating with this, if you are resonating with this and you want to figure out how to get started, pick 1 day this week or maybe 2 short of a time frame, pick a day next week or something where you already have stuff already planned and say, on this day next week, I am going to stop working in 12. I am going to work up until lunch, I am going to take lunch and I am not going to work the rest of the day, I am not going to look at my phone, I am not going to check my email, I am not going to do anything that is work related, okay and go hiking. Take your wife out for lunch or your husband. Take them out for lunch you know. Take them, give them, go give them a massage for half hour or take your kids you know depending on how old your kids are if they are younger you know, take them for ice cream, take them go play in the park with them you know. Go do something that allows you to be present in the moment and allows you to actually have like kind of find some peace within you and be happy rather than kind of you know, being sucked up in this pretense that if you are an entrepreneur you have to be busy all the time because I can guarantee you I have never failed on this one time. I can guarantee you that at least 30% of what you do every single day does not have to be done, 30% I guarantee you and that is -- I mean, usually it is more like 50%. So you can cut off 30 a day very easily. If you are working more than 7 or 8 hours a day of actual work that is like not including lunches just say 7 hours a day not including lunch so you know, roughly 8 hours with lunch. I guarantee you, you are being inefficient okay. You can outsource some of those things. You can stop doing some of those things. There is something -- I was just looking in my business the other day at things kind of do an 80/20 and looking at it and say, okay, what is working and what is not working. Well I found something that it is really not being that efficient with my marketing so guess what, next, gone. Do not do it anymore, okay. Simple as that. Do not do it anymore and focus because what happens is you right now, I am telling you, with absolute certainty, that you are getting 80% of your results from 20% of your efforts. So what you need to do is find the 20% and when you removed all that other 80% of stuff that is not doing anything, it is just busy work okay and you focus on that 20%. Well, let us just say that you are working 10 hours a day and you are getting 80% of the results from 2 of those hours 20%. What do you think would happen in your business if you did those 2 hours for 6 hours and then you took the other 4 hours off. What do you think would happen to your business, you think it will go up, yes, it will go up and guess what else would happen. You would be happy. And guess what else would happen. You would have a better relationship with your husband or wife. Guess what else would happen. Your kids would love you more, honestly. They would do things like come up and you know, tell you that they are your best friend and you know, again, this is younger kids. If they are like 20 years old they might not do that or maybe they would, but they would notice you know, you create better bonding with your family and guess what else would happen. If your friends, do you ever have a situation where your friend really needed your help and you were to “busy” to help them. Well, guess what else would happen, you would become a better friend. You will be able to help people. And guess what else would happen, you would be able to actually work out and have better fitness. Guess what else would happen, you could meditate. You can be happier. You could have less stress. You could feel better. You could sleep better. Do you see kind of -- where I am coming from with this. I mean I could go on for hours about all the things that would happen okay. And I tell you this because I have done this in my life. I used to be one of those people. And look, in the beginning of your business, if you are listening to this and you are like, oh my God, well I cannot do that, I just started my business, so screw your Jeremy you know, shove a stick up your ass. I understand that okay. In the beginning of your business you cannot quite do all this yet you know, when you are just starting, you are just trying to get attraction, you have to hustle, I get that okay. And again, there is times, okay. There is periods. It depends, okay. If you are already making you know, 6-figures, you can probably start to slow down okay. Is there a reason that you need to make a 7-figure income, do you have to or if you really want to why can’t you do it in a more efficient manner okay. I just want you to start thinking about some of these things. A lot of these stuff is you know, some of you might be getting pissed off, I mean that is fine. But I just want you to start thinking okay. Just start challenging the notion of working so much okay. That is all I want you to do, just start challenging it okay, and think about it. Just put some thought into it because that is what started changing me is when I actually started challenging some of these beliefs that entrepreneurs had to work all the time. They had to be on all the time. They have to respond back to emails within 5 minutes. They have to this and this and this and that. They have to be there for employees every second of the day and all that stuff, and it is just not necessary okay. You deserve to go and live your life and you know work and look again, I love work, but I can put -- I can work for 6 or 7 hours and get way, way, way, way, way more than in a day than most people doing a week. There is no reason that you cannot do the same thing okay. That is what I want you to challenge. Is why you are doing what you are doing and how you can make your life better. Just write down some of the things that you want in your life you know. Are you overweight right now, do you want better health. Well then, block out half hour of your day, it is not hard okay. And of course, again, there are exceptions to all this okay. There are days that I missed my workout because things just getting insane. That happens. There are weekends that I work because a client some kind of fire comes up where they are doing a launch or something breaks on a Friday afternoon or you know, whatever, that happens okay. That is the exceptions to the rule though, okay. You just have to look at your life and see you know, what can I change and look at your business and say, okay, I am making whatever, whatever it is $100,000, $50,000, $150,000, $300,000 and I want to make whatever it is $500,000 or $1,000,000. What I do is I say, alright, here is my income goal, how do I do that without working 1 extra hour. That is how I look at it okay and maybe you can come up something different that works for me and now before I sign off, I am going to kind of let you go here but before I sign off, you know, just think about, think about all of these, I want you to challenge those notions and then understand that I understand that there are exceptions like I was talking about before you know. There are exceptions to your kind of weekly thing where you know, things just do not go in your way. Things have fires happen they break out that kind of thing. You have to put them out. That is -- it is business, it happens you know or you are doing a product launch and you are just on a full out sprint for a couple of weeks or whatever. Totally get that. I do the same thing, okay, but those are short time periods, okay. It is not -- that is not the rule okay, that is the exception. There are also exceptions if you are just starting out okay. Maybe you do not want to only work you know 5 or 6 hours a day okay, because in the beginning you need to get that momentum. You need to get that momentum. You need to get the snow ball rolling. So I totally understand and you know, if you are married, I want you to talk about this to your husband or wife and have them just explain to them like look, over the next year or two you know, I am going to be working a lot, I am going to try to at least take weekends off or nights off or blackout some kind of time for family time you know, again, this is if you have family, because I am telling you I have seen it a thousand times. Your family will disintegrate if you do not do this okay. There is always to improve I mean most people do not even know what a good relationship is because they think that you know, they think that what (inaudible 23:12.9) how it is supposed to be you know, and if you are not happy well that is not normal you know. Being overweight is not normal okay. Being stressed out is you know, waking up and you are having anxiety, not normal okay. So again, that is another exception to the rule is, it is kind of like -- in the beginning you know, you have to do that. It is just how it is you know. Now there are things you can do to minimize that, of course, that is kind of a whole another topic, but just -- all I want you to do is think about this stuff. Start challenging the notion. Tell me if this helps you, you know. I want to know -- I want to start talking a little bit more about this stuff because I am so much more you know, I know I am a sales funnel guy and all that, but one of my big passions is showing people how to get the same or better results but without the stress that comes along with it. That is one of the reasons that I love sales funnels because they reduce so much stress you know, because you can just get it working and then it works you know. You get a paid funnel or a paid traffic funnel working and it just works. All you have to do is just give the money and you get more back in return you know, and that is what I love to do with my clients is -- I love to look it like you know, alright when your business is doing good, how is your life you know. How is your marriage. How is your relationship with your kids. How is your relationship with your friends. Do you have any hobbies you know. As you know, I am really big in cooking you know. So I am planning a day -- the weather is awful here in Pennsylvania now so I cannot do it this week, I was going to, but you know, I am starting to learn how to smoke food you know. So that is one of my new things and I am learning all these new cooking techniques and I am learning more of like wood working stuff and you know I am clearing out the backyard behind our house here so I can build stuff for the kids. We have like an acre, a little over an acre of woods behind our house. It is kind of like our house and then the yard and then the woods and I am clearing it all out. Over the last 2 or 3 years I have been chopping all the trees down by my hand probably I do not know, roughly 50 trees, good size ones and all by hand and it is a fantastic workout by the way. But you know, a couple -- kind of a couple year of process so I am clearing that all out and I am going to build stuff for the kids. I am going to build a tree house. I am going to do like a little obstacle course back then. I am going to build out fun stuff for them. So you know, you have to look and get these hobbies you know, play a guitar or go you know, if you are into -- go, go help somebody you know, go and volunteer somewhere or whatever it is, but I just want you to challenge all these and start thinking about ways and you do not have to jump right in. Start one thing. I always do a habit every quarter, I keep track of all the activities that I do okay, throughout my business and every quarter I look through those activities and I try to get rid of one okay, just one single thing alright, because or maybe if it is really small thing like so for example I used to do the editing on this podcast, well I do not do that anymore. So that is one small thing that is, I mean you can outsource that in like 5 minutes. But that frees up you know, 10 minutes a week, well multiply that by 10 things to hundred hours a week, multiply that by something it saves you an hour times 10, that is 10 hours a week you know. That is over a full work day. You can take Fridays off now. So start thinking about that stuff. Shoot me an email at Jeremyreeves.com. Let me know if you enjoyed this episode. If you like this type of thing you know, I know this was not really marketing thing. This all comes back to marketing because you are -- when you are able to think more clearly, you become a better marketer. You come up with better ideas you know, all that kind of stuff. You have more longevity you know. You are not getting stressed out. You are going to be happier for your employees. Your employees are going to like you better. You wife is going to like you better or your husband. Kids are going to like you better. I mean it is just you know, the benefits are just you know, they reverberate through you entire life you know. So anyway, shoot me an email at Jeremyreeves.com let me know what you thought of this episode if you love it, you hated it, you agree of me, you did not agree with me. I want to hear your comments on this because it is something that I want to start talking about a little bit more and I want to see if you guys are into it you know. So let me know how it is and again like if you are interested in getting a funnel done, again, Jeremy@jeremyreeves and just let me know you know, kind of what you are thinking you know, this is coming up -- I am going to do some kind of thing in April, some kind of charity thing. I am not sure what it is. I am going to plan that probably today or tomorrow, but I let you guys know maybe the next episode something like that or an email you know, if you are not on email list go to Jeremyreeves.com and just sign up on one of the free things. I have free webinars and reports and all kind of stuff. Yeah, I got to do something you know, give you guys a way to save some money, get cool stuff while I you know can support autism for my son, Connor, because again, it is autism awareness month this month. So if you know anybody with autism, you know, give him a hug, seriously. But anyway, I hope this, I hope this resonate with you. If it did not, let me know as well you know, feel free to yell at me if you think I am wrong. That is totally fine, I want to get some communications, some dialogue going here. So let me know your thoughts jeremy@jeremyreeves.com. I hope you guys and girls have an amazing week. Go meditate this week. Maybe that is your weekly thing. Just take 15 minutes, 1 days this week and meditate. I am pretty sure you can spare 15 minutes you know. Tell me how it makes you feel okay. Alright, I will talk to you soon. Bye.

In this episode, I interview Navid Moazzez, who is known as THE go-to guy if you're creating a virtual summit to increase your credibility, exposure, email list and most importantly, revenue. We get deep into why virtual summits are just as good as writing a book, exactly how to set one up for your business, and several different monetization strategies you can use to maximize the profit you make from your summit.   Regardless if you want to create a summit you should listen to this episode, as MANY of the topics we discuss are easily transferable to various areas of your business!   Resources Mentioned * navidmoazzez.com *virtualsummitmastery.com/cheatsheet Want To Work With Me? Visit http://www.JeremyReeves.com or email me at Jeremy@JeremyReeves.com Enjoy! Transcript Jeremy Reeves: Hey guys, Jeremy Reeves here with another episode of the sales funnel mastery podcast and today I have a very special guest on the line, his name is and you might have to correct me here, Navid Moazzez. Navid Moazzez: Wow, that is pretty good like molasses. Jeremy Reeves: Like almost like molasses but Moazzez. So Navid he is, he is an interesting guy. So he is kind of recent into this. He got started in 2014 and built his business really, really quickly. He basically -- he specializes in showing people how to promote and profit from their own virtual summits. So you have probably heard me in the bunch of different summits. I just saw him last week (inaudible 0:47). So Navid, he is the guy to go to if you are going to you know, promote one of these or host one of these and he shows you how to essentially maximize it, get the most opt-ins out of it, get the most profit out of it and grow really quick. It is basically what he did to build his own business showing other people how to do this really quickly. So then you can find him at navidmoazzez.com and I will put a link in there obviously because it is a little bit hard to spell. So the link will be in the show notes as usual. So Navid, welcome to the show. Navid Moazzez: Yeah, thanks so much man. You know, I remember (inaudible 1:26) you for my first summit, the branding summit in 2014 and since then you know, I -- obviously been seeing you. My business took off a little bit since then so you know I got to thank you publicly here for being part of that because that was really you know, my call to fame so to speak, even though you know, correct you a little bit, I started out with my blog like 2013 but it was not really a business until I did the summit late 2014 I think, it really skyrocketed to you know, (inaudible 1:54) 6-figure business and grow my email list rapidly as well. Jeremy Reeves: Nice, nice, yeah. I remember you reaching me out, reaching out to me to be on that. I remember doing that whole you know, that whole thing, it went really well for you, you know, obviously. So yes, I guess you know, go into, go a little bit you know deeper with some of the things you have done and you know, I know you have been kind of talk about all over the place anymore, I see your name coming up more and more as a kind of you know, doing various things online you know, you seem show up -- I see your face a lot more often than I was you know, year ago. So tell us your story a little bit you know, how you got started and I know you have kind of briefly just deep into it, but -- Navid Moazzez: Yeah, yeah, sure. I mean, as I mentioned, I started out in 2013 pretty much after a really horrible -- something that happened to my entire family when my brother passed away and I have been talking a lot about starting my online business you know, like even since 2012, I got a mentor and you know I started reading a lot of books and you know finding out about this whole community of online business owners you know (inaudible 2:58) entrepreneurs and then in 2013, you know after this happened to my brother, I was just okay now, I really have to get started. I have been talking so much about it and I simply since I did not really have any expertise I mean a law school dropout so I did not really have that much in terms -- I did not want to talk about that at all you know in business you know I was kind of depressed by not doing that much (inaudible 3:22) in my law school studies. I decided after you know, starting my blog you know, a few months into it that I would simply just talk about my entrepreneurial journey like (inaudible 3:32) people like Pat Flynn (inaudible 3:34) in the beginning just to get more experience. I was just interested in these topics like how they built their business and then I heard a lot of people say to me, Hey Navid you got to start a podcast and you know John Lee Dumas had something to do with this like I was in his community initially and you know, he had his podcast that is going well, I thought okay this is going to take my business to another level too and I did that, build great relationships you know that was always good but it did not grow, my email (inaudible 4:03) and I did not generate a lot of cash flow in my business a lot of revenue, so I have to kind of -- I think it was in spring 2014 or so, I was like thinking about okay, how can I you know, get my business to another level. When I started seeing this virtual summits or virtual conferences popping up all the time, kind of the health industry, I saw a few in online marketing space and I decided to kind of go all in you know, I did not have any experience just like when I started my site with doing interviews. I did not have experience there, so I decided to learn how to set up all the tech. How to go about you know, interviewing people for it and how to structure you know, kind of relevant for you guys like the funnel, like how to actually maximize the summit itself and then I launched it in November 2014 you know with -- you know before that I had like thousand people on my email list you know, after 18 months of hard work and then I did the summit, you were there Jeremy and a lot of people as well and it just took off like I got about 3000 people signed up for it and $20,000 in profit, build some amazing relationships with all these people and then people in my audience you know, how I got into teaching people about this. They asks me question about like how did you do your summit. How did you get speakers on board. How did you promote it and that was just my aha moment, okay maybe I should create a pilot program around you know, create (inaudible 5:32) profit from virtual summits and that is kind of what got me to this point like taking my business just took off after that (inaudible 5:39) getting clients, getting results for them and then launching my flagship program, virtual summit mastery. Jeremy Reeves: Nice, yeah, I love it, I love it. So it is kind of the you know, then it kind of happens a lot of people in business you know, you try something, and it works so well then you teach other people you know, how to do this -- Navid Moazzez: Yeah, I mean, as I said to you like, I did like the branding summit kind of like now that I think back, I would not fully have done like a branding summit, it was good, it was like, I think my (inaudible 6:07) 88 speakers on there and if you are thinking about doing the summit, you do not need like 88 or like (inaudible 6:12) on recently though (inaudible 6:14) it is just crazy that (inaudible 6:16) I did not want to break the Guinness World Records so they are like at 65 hour live stream or something and then like total 100 interviews which is just crazy, you do not need that but that is a hook if you are doing more broad topic like (inaudible 6:28) you have a lot of different topics within there, I did the branding summit but I could have broken that down into potentially many different topics like public speaking, create online courses, list fielding, sales funnel, whatever that would be and then have like only experts on these topics and that is probably the (inaudible 6:45) I would go today. Let us say I want to position myself around sales funnel or whatever I would do a summit around that and that is you know, also like, I positioned myself as a virtual summit guy and that is so much more specific than being (inaudible 7:01) personal branding strategist if you know what I mean you know. I make way more money because I am bringing niche in specific. Jeremy Reeves: Yeah, definitely, definitely. So before we get in the summit like the you know, the exact like okay, you know, here is step 1 and step 2 that kind of thing. Most entrepreneurs everybody listening to this you know, the is always so many things on our to do list you know, we have to do this, we have to do the next thing, the next project you know, a month away, the one after that is like you know, 6 weeks away whatever. So what would you tell us if someone had said, hey, you know, like why should I do this you know, how is this actually going to help me when there is 85 billion other things that I can be doing. What is the reason I should be doing this one. Navid Moazzez: Yeah man, I can just tell you from like someone is starting out I mean, I had like a decent -- I mean I have like 900 or 1000 people on my list so I can just tell you from that experience like pretty much starting out, you can expect to grow your list by a few thousand people with doing a summit. I grew my list with around 3000 people and that was just my first summit, getting $20,000 in profit and that enabled me to quit my job and move abroad and get this freedom whatever that is to you. You definitely get you know, decent success, even if you are just starting out and like, like create fans I mean I have some people on my list but they turned into (inaudible 8:19) lifelong customers you know. I have a lot of those people who got in for my summit who purchase let’s say I promote an affiliate product. I promote my own courses and they buy into that and then also how you leverage the summit afterwards is the key like you can let’s say after what I did I -- you know, not only like move abroad, started travelling more. I became an affiliate for let’s say Ramit Sethi I promoted him in January of 2015 just a month afterwards and you know became his number 1 affiliate you know, built a relationship with him just from doing my summit having a decent size email list of 3500 people managed to become his number 1 (inaudible 8:58) you know, many other big names, they have much bigger email list than me. So that is something you can do (inaudible 9:04) $40,000 in sales in January 2015 from this small email list which is kind of crazy looking back and then getting featured on the sites like Business Insider, you know, getting a lot of views and subscribers from there, because if I just sat down and like, okay, my summit was a success and just thinking I am not going to have to do any work after it. The summit is just the beginning. It is just like getting people in and then you need to leverage the summit because now you might have something to share with people I mean I have you know, great success with it and then getting featured on other publications. This is also something I have seen not only me, but also from clients, there are, you know, seeing a lot of things happened afterwards. Getting featured on podcast. Getting more exposure as you mentioned. You see me more frequently now popping out, I mean, that is -- you know, the reason I got you know, the exposure from this summit. I need it to take my business to the next level. Jeremy Reeves: Yeah, definitely. And you know, I was thinking, as you were saying that, it is very similar to why you would write a book you know, you do it for the credibility, you do it like you do not use the book to make money I mean, people that you know, do it and a broke do that you know, really, you write the book to get the exposure and get the credibility and then you know, also like to help build your email list that kind of thing and then you use that like it is the spring board to then build your list. Navid Moazzez: Yeah, for sure. What I love also about virtual summit is that you do not really have to be the expert. I will share to you (inaudible 10:30). For me, I was not really, I mean I was having some experience with online marketing (inaudible 10:34) before I did a branding summit but I was not that expert. People really called to me, I mean, I still struggle before my summit and I just was like, I researched, like interview these people and brand myself association. I did not have to be the expert, I just gathered those people together on this amazing event and like you know feature them there and then people started to trust me more. It is just like, I was seen next to Neil Patel, John Lee Dumas, you were on there, and a lot of all other people as well and they just leverage my brand moving forward. That is one way why you would do it or it can be the other side of the spectrum like (inaudible 11:10) all this self publishing success summit. I helped them with, you get almost 30,000 opt-ins or you know, and he also got beyond $70,000 in revenue. That is like, if you already have let’s say a 6-figure business, you want to do the summit around your topic of expertise. In his case, with self-publishing to get people into a high-end program and at the end of the funnel. So you are getting people first maybe to sign up for free and then get them on for double access pass that might be $97 and then at the end of the summit, you sell them on your high-end program and that is what we did to kind of maximize the virtual summit there so we are getting like $120,000 in sales for just the summit itself like double access pass and then an additional $200 some thousand on his course which is yesterday a fantastic way if you already have a business, you have courses and you do a summit to kind of market your course and get people in there. Jeremy Reeves: Okay, nice. That is pretty impressive 30,000 people you know. Navid Moazzez: Yeah, 30,000. I mean I have 12,500 on this list before we did the summit and now every time I see something on Facebook what they are doing, they are always hiring. They did -- I think last year, $1.5M in sales and now it is just growing very rapidly for them because (inaudible 12:23) 12,500 on their list and now they have over 100,000 with facebook ads and so on because they got a lot of the people who promoted his summit. They also now (inaudible 12:33) to promote this course because they saw them out of success and the amount of value they are providing during the summit and just an easier way to get people kind of to start promoting you as you know, if you have speakers, but also other partners because it is such a great event you know, you are promoting something for free and then you can still make money on the backend. Jeremy Reeves: I love it, I love it, yeah. There is a lot of -- there is a lot of -- I have a concept called Newton’s Trade (inaudible 12:59) it is kind of like you do one thing and it moves several different things throughout your business you know versus like -- Navid Moazzez: I love it. It is just like -- imagine you are promoting a free event and you see, okay, it is not like the biggest thing for you know, big influence, say okay, you got to promote this, you are going to make $50 per sale, but let us say, you have something in the backend, now we are talking about someone who you know, during the summit, they have 6 to 7 figure business and they have like already applaud where they can make you know, up to maybe $500 to $1000 per sale then now we are talking. They can make a lot of money from just promoting this free event because there is a course in the backend that is converting well, you know what I mean. Jeremy Reeves: Yeah, yeah, absolutely. So you know, it is -- so I have never done one of these. So this is actually coming from someone who has never done it. You know, when I am thinking about it and it is like okay let’s start a virtual summit whatever in April right. You know, we are recording this on March 28. So, in my head right now, I am thinking, oh my God, this has to be a ton of work, you know. Talk about a little bit like, what are kind of -- some of the steps that you have to do to actually get it done and some of the ways that you help people kind of reduce that overwhelm. Navid Moazzez: Yeah, I think there is something to it that is like, if you want to do a summit (inaudible 14:20) exposure and we are talking about like getting great results from it, you have to keep in mind that you should not start the summit. You should not say okay, I am going to do summit in April and it is March right now. Probably you want to have a lead -- you want to have a lead up time honestly like if you want to do it well -- for (inaudible 14:37) is a really big summit. I just mentioned you just have about 2 months to do it because we have a decent team but it was still pretty stressful to do everything. We could have probably done more honestly to get you know, you get better results than that, but we did not have I would say to someone who has like experience with online marketing, you know your tools and so on, you can probably do it in around 3 months or so. If you have like a total newbie, there is a lot of things to learn. I would say I am just going to be honest like give yourself a 3 or 4 months lead up time and if you are thinking about it like you need to build relationships with people in order to you know get people not only on board for a summit, that would mean get them on as speakers, that is one thing, but also may be even getting them on board to promote the summit to their most valuable asset which is the email list and if you are only getting them on board in order to promote it feels very transactional you know, if you are building the relationship in one earlier stage where it is like okay you are adding value because you do not really expect anything in return then it feels more natural at least I like this approach better because I build relationship now for quite a long time. So if I would invite you on a summit Jeremy it would be more natural for you to say yes because I have been you know, we have been talking over you know, I have been on your podcast now and so on. It is just easier to get people on and also get maybe even to promote to their list if you know what I mean there. Jeremy Reeves: Yeah, definitely, because I can even imagine you know, I mean, I even do it on podcast and stuff, I mean there is a difference. I can see a difference in terms of who promotes it like how well they promote it you know, like some people just do not do anything, some people will you know put like you know, and I am talking about like guest on my podcast. Some will just put it on whatever Twitter or Facebook whatever their social media thing is. And then other people will blast out their whole list sometimes several times and usually the people who do that, I have already have the relationship with, I already know them. Navid Moazzez: Exactly. Jeremy Reeves: Yes, I can see that. Yeah, because I mean, you know, a huge part of the success I would imagine, you can correct if I am wrong, comes from your guest promoting it you know because -- Navid Moazzez: If you are new to this and you do not have like maybe you do not a lot of contact list in the media or something like it, yes, you will rely quite a bit on the speakers and also maybe if you are getting some promotional partners (inaudible 17:02) speakers I would say, but it is not like, if you are starting out, you can definitely get people to share if you are falling and creating a really good summits we can get into maybe a few steps here. The first thing I would say is like being clear or what it’s going to be about like your profitable virtual summit idea or theme as (inaudible 17:20) to call it so. I mentioned a little bit in the beginning like it is better if it is specific, if it’s narrow focus like, in your case you can just sum it on sales funnels for example. I think that could do well, you know, I think you also have the experience on it but like bringing people on board to talk about this specific topic maybe more of like case study format (inaudible 17:40) like more actionable not just even though I mean podcasting just can be like that but I have seen -- if you go to itunes you see a lot of podcast that are just pretty much just their story their entire time you know I mean, I am trying to share you know, when on podcast usually depending on what it is I am trying to share (inaudible 17:58) things you can actually implement in your business and if you want to do your summit then that is the main thing when it comes to actually doing virtual summit interviews or presentations whatever you like to have on your summit. That is actionable information, because you are actually selling this I mean, you are putting a limited availability on the interviews or presentations when they go live during your summit and that is also (inaudible 18:21) urgencies you get people to purchase, but if the content is bad or crappy, like that is not going to help you. That is not going to build your brand. So you need to have this really good information on your summit and that also -- speaking of that you do not need to work as much about like yes, you need to ask the speakers to share, yes you need to make it easy for them, but if you focus first and foremost on the content and make it really, really epic on your summit like you know, researching the guest, making sure you know, you cover the most interesting angles on this topic and you know really step by step then they are going to be more likely to share it with their list too and they are doing their audience disservice by not sharing it on set. Jeremy Reeves: Yeah, they really are, yeah. I totally agree. So just in case you know, I know how these things make you know, make revenue you know, because I am familiar with them, I have been through them you know, that kind of thing. Just for somebody who does not actually know they are like okay, well you get a whole bunch of speakers to talk you know, how do you actually make money. Why don’t you everybody through you know, how this actually makes money you know and then like any kind of you know expert tips at any kind of things that you found that work the best that kind of maximizing the profit, the actual sales funnel for building one of these things. Navid Moazzez: Yeah, that is interesting. I would like to talk about this so this is like okay, so we have first our landing page, you might have seen those. You go to landing page for the summit. You have the speakers on there. You have a great call to action you know, in the top section, there is (inaudible 19:52) synopsis really clear. That is why it is important that it is a specific topic if you just have a broad topic you might get a lower conversion rate from the landing page. So you go there, you sign up for free typically and you know maybe you start promoting the summit 3 weeks out something like this to your own list and then the affiliates and speakers they start promoting it around 2 weeks before and then when someone signs up from the landing page for free they go to typically a thank you page which is kind of a modified sales page I would like to call it but it is -- the only reason is because you have -- you can have a video there, you can thank people thanks for signing up and you can have like these 3 steps, and you are like telling them, hey check your inbox for an email you know with a details but then below you have information to purchase an all access pass which is pretty much consists of the interviews which can be prerecorded if you have done that you should already have the interviews in the membership area which is pretty easy how to separate membership area for the buyers or if it is a live summit, you can like, just provide that afterwards, I mean, I have been kind of having a high-breed between live and prerecorded. So I have some stuff live like a hangouts and so on in the typical thing, people can purchase on this page for $97 or like a pretty low commitment to purchase access to everything because people know they probably can have time to watch everything during that such a concentrated period of time during the summit so they rather purchase, that is the urgence we are talking about here and irresistible offer so that is kind of the initial phase, like that is -- you can generated hundreds of sales or you know quite a lot of sales before your summit starts by just implementing this simple thing. A lot of people do not do it. They do not have this on the thank you page. That is kind of -- I mean in the sales funnel, this is a little bit more expensive trip by our offer so to speak. Jeremy Reeves: Okay, got you. Navid Moazzez: Yeah, I mean that is the same, that is the easiest I can explain it to people and your audience, more like $97. I would not sell it for -- I mean you could do that too if you want it to have like you know, maybe you can have test it, I have not tested this but you can (inaudible 22:00) sell it for like $7 or $10 and then you can like have another upsell to the other summit, I have not tested it, but overall, it works really well to just have around $97 mark and then get people in there and they market the summit via email you know, when to start. So it is not like, if people do not purchase there right away, they can still check out the into use and everything for free during your summit, during this like 48-hour period or whatever you choose to have your (inaudible 22:28) available from when they go live. So it is still an opportunity in your email to sell and most of this sales they do happen in the emails like when you raise the price, you know, you might raise the price mid through the summit to you know, $147 or $197 and then afterwards like as I mentioned if you have a product you can have that product like you are selling that at the end of your summit and that is how you maximized this funnel. You are getting great sales from the all access pass but also from let us say, a higher end product which is could be from $1,000 to $2,000 price range and that is like -- you can really you know, get 75% of your revenue there almost if you are doing it the right way. Jeremy Reeves: Okay, got you. Have you ever, have you ever because I have seen some summit and some of the things that came through my mind was you know, what if all these interviews are, because you know, a lot of people they go on webinars and like you were saying before, podcast and it is like the story the whole time, there is really no other, they are just talking about themselves for an hour you know, and I am in the same way, I hate that you know, that is like when I interview people, you could tell like we kind of go into your story really quick, because it is important to understand their background but then you get into like okay, what do we do. So have you ever tested something where either right upfront or for people who did not buy like maybe sell it for whatever a week and then after that to the people who did not buy say, Hey, I know you might be a little bit hesitant about it, maybe you think this is one of those you know, other summits you may have tried where it is all like fluff and theory and blah.. blah.. and you give them like a free, not a free trial but a like low price trial. Navid Moazzez: Yeah, that is a good observation. The only thing is that people do have the chance to actually check out the into use for free. If they are like, okay, they are very unsure I mean, if they have been following let us say my summits for a while they will know what to expect, but let us say you are new and you know, (inaudible 24:30) warning like some summits they can just be this fluffy information, you do not know like it is not the format so what I say to all my students is to really think about -- like you what is the best courses -- I have a step by step framework or system to it, so I like to have kind of -- I called it like phases or steps or themes or pillars or something like that. So you kind of have a thought on process what your summit going to be about and then it is also easier to let us say put the speakers on (inaudible 24:57) so for self-publishing success (inaudible 24:59) writing, marketing, publishing, and monetizing. That was our you know steps or themes we have and then we put the speakers under theirs. So that was our phases, we have the speakers (inaudible 25:10) so it was a bit easy to have the writing phase, and marketing, and publishing, and then the monetizing and that is really how we made it very (inaudible 25:19) okay you are going to expect this information. If I am interested in writing, I am going to check out this, so that is kind of how we, how we structure the summit and that is how I do it myself now as well. I did kind of a little bit like this for my first summit but I just improved upon this and I saw way more success when I started to really being thoughtful about the process of actually getting people through the summit and even if they do not check out everything in the membership area it can look like a course when they are purchasing it you know, they get a bonuses and they get the interviews. It is not like 150 interviews in a membership site, it is like ready thought out so they can actually go the section I want to learn about how to write a book. I want to learn how to market it. I want to learn how to monetize it. They go there like a course. So that is what I tend to do. Jeremy Reeves: Nice, I like it. It sounds like you have the whole thing very you know, like you said, very planned and very thought out like each step is very intuitive. Nice, I like it. So how about you know, so there is -- for monetizing, if there is a course that they can buy and then you were talking before about I think it was coaching that you sell afterwards was that right, talk us a little about -- Navid Moazzez: Yes, you can. It does not have to be like in (inaudible 26:33) case he had like a high-end course it can be like, you might not have that yet, maybe you are starting out and you are like doing your summit, you want to grow your list, you want to generate some money from the summit itself but you are getting like people on the list (inaudible 26:48.0)you can survey them and like find out what their pain points are and that is just how you can like get into their head you can like what I did in myself, I heard what people were talking about, they -- I mean I just tested like a hangout, a live hangout. I have some friends (inaudible 27:02.6) like about my process creating this branding summit and a lot of people on this kind of hangout they just started asking me question. They were very interested and then I just launch a pilot program during my summit pretty much and that is one way. A pilot program could be less expensive. You can get people in before you even spent anytime creating the product yourself. I did not spend money. I did not spend you know have all this (inaudible 27:26.1) figure out. I just have -- okay, I have this knowledge I can for sure create something and then (inaudible 27:31.8) you know took a few months that I deliver some content to them but they were already aware of that because they got in (inaudible 27:39.1) expensive rate for the pilot. Jeremy Reeves: Okay, nice. So how about let us just say that somebody is doing this for the first time. I know you, you are like you know, if you did another one you know, next month or whatever like you already have a big list, you may have connections so it is easy to start getting the word out. Do you have any tips for people who maybe this is their first time or basically you know, if they do not have a lot of convictions and relationships and a big list themselves already you know, is there anything that they can do, obviously you know, I should back this up by saying you know, clearly if it is your first time, you are not going to do as well as if you already have all these stuff, I mean that is kind of -- Navid Moazzez: Yeah, I mean that says itself, but without being said, you can get it to success (inaudible 28:27.7) like starting pretty much from scratch. If you have 0 or 100 subscribers, pretty much, I guess the same thing I mean, I have students of mine that gone from pretty much 0 to like few thousand subscribers by just doing their summit and being very thoughtful with their approach of how they are like approaching speakers. So first of all we can talk about this first, how to get speakers when you are starting from scratch. Really, I mean building this relationship up you can like being on their radar a little bit but really you might know someone like you might know someone that you can reach out to maybe you have heard their podcast, you can given them a compliment for you know, this episode or whatever it might be and then you are building this relationship slowly then you have something to ask. It can go pretty quickly to build enough (inaudible 29:13.4) relationship with that person so you can ask for them to be on a summit you know that is what I found with a lot of students. A video invitation worked really well because it is like some people do not take a time to do that honestly. So if you can be someone that stands out and do video invitation you have a very good chance of them saying yes especially if you like keep it to 1 to 2 minutes just keep it in their like why do you really want this person on your summit, why do you really want to interview them, why they are such a great fit to be a speaker. So that is just a few great ways to just reach out to someone even it is cold they are more likely to say yes but then if you -- I called it the ladder strategy so if you know someone, you start with people on the bottom you know and then you work yourself up the ladder. So let us say you have you know, maybe someone on your level or a few steps ahead, maybe start with this person, they might know someone you know up the ladder like a Brian Tracy or John Lee Dumas or whatever niche that might be and then you have people all of a sudden social proof so when you are starting doing a little bit more cold outreach let us say you are doing a little bit cold outreach for a summit usually at least a handful of people you might not have the best connection to then they are very likely to say yes because you have that social proof already in your email and then they can name drop a few people. I mean you mentioned to me when I reached out for an expert (inaudible 30:36.0) good name dropping here something like that. So that stuff matters because they can relate to those names. They might be friends with them. So this is just getting people on board and then we can talk about how to get them to promote. Jeremy Reeves: Okay, yeah, and what you are just said, I do not want anybody to scheme over the importance of what you just said. That is really, really powerful. And I have a couple examples of that, so when I do podcast and I have guest and you will see you know after this, I always say like in my email that I send people right before the podcast goes live, I will always say, Hey, by the way, do you know anybody else, you know, that might be interested being on the podcast and then you know, they list off whatever one, two, three people and then I email those people and say, Hay, you know, (inaudible 31:20.5) just told me that you might be interested. He was just in my podcast, you can listen to the episode here. If you are interested let me know blah.. blah.. I would love to interview and the response rate is so much higher than when we do like you know direct outreach to people that we do not know. So that is one thing if you want just for any kind of podcasting or like just getting in touch with somebody for you know some kind of interview or whatever it is or in this case. Another one is we also do that with affiliates. So that is a really good affiliate marketing strategies doing that same principle you know, start with the C players get a couple of them, get them good results and then you go up and you start name dropping the C players to the B players you know and people that they know and then you know, you work your way up to A you know, to the people that you are really trying to you know, trying to get. Navid Moazzez: It is powerful. It sounds simple to do it but people do not really do that. I am in a lot of podcast and like very few people do this exactly what you said. They can ask me, hey Navid, do you know someone that would be a great fit for this podcast or like in this case like when you get someone on board for your summit let us say you have done a great interview with someone for your summit then you can ask them, Hey, I mean especially, not a specific name though, you should ask just for like, do you know someone who would be a great fit for the summit not ask for (inaudible 32:43.3) then they think you will only have the (inaudible 32:45.9) you definitely do not want to come across (inaudible 32:49.0) this guy. I mean I have had that happened before someone asked me for the introduction let us say to Ramit Sethi because they have seen pictures with me and Ramit because we met up like that is just not cool I think. Jeremy Reeves: Yeah, yeah. I know there is a guy Joe Polish in the marketing industry and he is really close with Richard Branson, and you know, Richard Branson is probably -- but so he said he gets request every single day about an interaction with Richard Branson. I hate it, he is like when people ask me that and I do not know them, I instantly do not like them because they are just using me to get to you know, to Richard. It does not you know, it does not make you feel good when people do that. Navid Moazzez: Exactly, I mean that is for sure. That is a great point there as well. It’s actually you can get people on the summit by just doing this leveraging people maybe in your network or even just being authentic with your approach like if you feel like you do not know them, do video stand out in their eyes you know. Be someone who take action on what they share on their blog. If you are in their course or community, take action. Be someone who stands out. That is how simply can be to get on their radar because that is all you need to like, get them to initially maybe say yes to be on a summit and then we can get to how to get them to promote. Jeremy Reeves: Yeah, baby steps. Navid Moazzez: Yeah, exactly and I mean, I am happy to get into a little bit how I, you know, I do not get everyone to promote, I can just be honest with them and that is very hard to get everyone to promote, but just by you know, we are talking about content, content is the key. If you have a great interview, have a great connection with them (inaudible 34:23.7) you are more likely to get them to promote but that is all about -- I do not require them to promote, I do not (inaudible 34:29.7) like a contract or (inaudible 34:32.0) have a fine line there where you know, you got to promote at least 2 times their email list. I do not do this. I focus on their relationship first and foremost and I do ask them, it is really important to ask them but there is a fine line there, you do not like push them to promote, if they say okay I cannot, I have this launch coming up, I cannot promote. Usually that is okay, especially if you are starting out. You should not focus on this now. I have a bigger audience I can say I can leverage that I would get 20,000 to 30,000 people on the summit. So that would be you know, good exposure for any speaker pretty much and then they are more likely to share it out but for someone new, focus on the content and that makes it super easy for them to promote (inaudible 35:12.5) anyway but you know, I have (inaudible 35:14.2) with affiliates you should have the slide copy for them. Images, graphics does really well when you have these banners with their you know, face on it, really important to have that. They are more likely I do not know how much more likely but usually everyone we have done this or shared at least on social media if you have a graphic with their face because you took their time and create this and then having like you know, good communication. I think it is all about communication with the affiliates. If (inaudible 35:40.4) hey I am going to promote this, it is kind of your job to as the host of the summit to make sure you know, not pushing them or to actually get pissed about it, but really like pulling up with them constantly, because some people schedule this like (inaudible 35:55.0) something happened and then not being like -- you got to be clear on the date like you mentioned. I have calendars for my affiliates like just tell them. Here is the best dates to promote and they shared this with them and then they can you know, put that in their schedule which is really important for let us say, (inaudible 36:12.7) entrepreneur you want them on your summit to promote it. Jeremy Reeves: Yeah, nice. So I just had a question that totally, totally went out of my head. Well actually, you know, we are starting you know come up to time here. So, is there anything else that I have not asked you know, that you think you know, if someone is listening to this and you thought they had to know it too either get started or you know maximize let us say they already made a decision to do this you know, anything else that would help them maximize the results to get anything, anything pop in your head. Navid Moazzez: Yeah, I mean, I would say, if you can just I mean, obviously, there is a lot of things we did not talk really about you know, the technical things and this setting it up. Essentially, the funnel, I just want people to be clear of what it looks like since you are talking a lot about this, so it is a landing page, a thank you page, and then you know, that is the initial part and then into your emails you mentioned that you know, from time to time, you mentioned the sales page, it does not stop there. You will get sales for your (inaudible 37:17.6) and all these during the summit too. So it is like the presales kind of before you even have the (inaudible 37:22.6) any content to people which is cool. You get like paid. Yeah, it is nice and it is like a presale and then during the summit, okay, some people they are checking out the interviews, they are really loving the content. Some people they find out okay, I am not gonna have time to watch everything and then he purchased and then at the end if you have that chance, you can have like you know, some live element too so you can promote a webinar or your hosting, like around a similar topic, let us say, in Chandler’s case, what is self-publishing (inaudible 37:50.4) webinar promoting his course at the end. So we have a promotion for that. That is how you can like, as you get more advanced, you can like add those elements in and that is just a bigger win for everyone involved like the speakers or for affiliates to promote it because they can make more money and if you do not have that, just make it you know, think about it from their standpoint really I mean we did not really touch on that but make it a win for them so they are on board, okay, you are starting out, what can you do. You can promote them after your summit too. You have grown your list, that is what I do a lot. I have grown my list with like 3,000 people after my first summit like in 2014. I could promote people to my list. I could be an affiliate for their products and just add more value. I also linked up their freebie below their interview on the summit pages I have as well. That is also another way to position them in a good way on your summit when you are starting, building this relationship that way too. I had many people on my summit, I got like hundreds of opt-ins from just doing that. Jeremy Reeves: Nice, I love it. So, you know, tell everybody because this is something that like if you are going to do that you definitely want to not try to figure out yourself you know, this is -- Navid Moazzez: Like I did. Jeremy Reeves: Yeah, yeah. I feel like this is one of those things you know, there are certain things that you can kind of just you know figure out on how to do it yourself. I think this thing you know, setting up a summit is sure you can do it, but you are gonna not only not make as much money and get you know bigger results, and it is not just about money like we are talking about, it’s you know, the exposure, the email list, the money you know, everything, the credibility and you know, I know that you help people with every aspect of that you know what I mean, so tell everybody you know, what you, how you can help them whether it is you know, a course that you have, your own kind of personal coaching that kind of thing you know, if they are interested in doing this tell them of how can they get in touch with you. Navid Moazzez: Yeah, the best way I would say is to get, grab cheat sheet that I have created. It is a 7 steps to create, promote, and profit from virtual summits and that is what Chandler started with actually before we even started working together. He (inaudible 40:00.2) cheat sheet he saw what was involved and that cheat sheet I mean, (inaudible 40:04.2) generated him quite a lot of money like also brought 30,000 opt-ins and did, I mean, it is pretty much the framework, it is the 7 steps you need to I mean, obviously there is a lot that goes into there but just follow the 7 steps or at least get -- see if you are interested in it like if you are interested a little bit, grab this over at virtualsummitmastery.com/cheatsheet and you know, you are at least good to go for the time being (inaudible 40:31.0) tip your toes a little bit into virtual summits and if you are more, if you are interested to take it to the next level, yes, I have a flagship program called Virtual Summit Mastery too so you know, you can look out for that as well if you are on my email list. Jeremy Reeves: Yeah, sounds good. Hey man, it was a pleasure not only having you on the podcast but catching up again. Navid Moazzez: Yeah, definite man. You got to do it more often. Jeremy Reeves: Yeah, sounds good. Yeah, everybody, thanks for listening in. Navid, thanks for coming out again. I appreciate it. It was great you know, I -- maybe putting this on my list for sometime in the near future. I will talk to you about it separately. I already have kind of half timeline in my head for it because I have been thinking about a little bit that is actually why I reached out because it has been in the back of my mind is one of those you know, we will do it soon kind of thing you know, so it would be fun, but so yeah, thanks again for coming on and everybody again, you know all of his links that we talked about will be in the show notes so I know it is a little bit long all that kind of thing. So just go into the show notes and links will be there. You can just click them and go check out his cheat sheet and his flagship course and all that fun stuff. Otherwise, I hope you all had a great time listening to this and got a lot out of it and we will talk to you soon.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s9cTf8mVnIo Sorry for the voice loss! It's been hurting the past few days and finally gave out on me this morning. Instead, go check out that link above which will take you to the live webinar replay I did yesterday going over the top 8 insights I've learned after creating over $50 million in revenue for my clients over the past few years. Enjoy!

In this episode, we bring in Peter Shankman. Peter is an incredibly successful entrepreneur as well as an angel investor, speaker, author and so much more. In this quick, straight to thepoint episode we cover a wide variety of topics such as using PR to grow your business, coping with and using ADD to your advantage, having an entrepreneurial mindset, living life on your own terms and so much more. Enjoy! Resources Mentioned * http://www.geekfactory.com/ Want To Work With Me? Visit http://www.JeremyReeves.com or email me at Jeremy@JeremyReeves.com Enjoy! Transcript Hey guys and girls welcome back to another episode of the sales funnel mastery podcast. Today we have on line Peter Shankman and I have been following Peter for it is probably good 6 or 7 years something like that back when he sold the company called Help A Reporter Out about 5 or 6 years ago. So I have been following him since back then. He has a really, really cool story. A really quick intro, he can get into more detail on all this but basically he is best known for founding Help A Reporter Out and as the founder and CEO of The Geek Factory which is a boutique social media and marketing and customer service strategy firm in New York City. A couple kind of cool things about him that you might want to talk about or you might want to learn, we will actually go into it. So he spends a lot of time on the road. He is doing all kinds of keynoting corporate events, big clients, American Express, Sheraton, Cisco, Sprint, U.S. Department of Defense, Walt Disney World, and a whole bunch else like that. And in his spare time, these are -- I like this. He is a NASA adviser board member which I think is awesome because I am into space and NASA and all that kind of stuff. He is an angel investor in multiple start ups, a sub for marathon runner which is kind of cool that something that I cannot really do that, Ironman, and a B licensed skydiver which is awesome. He also has a couple of books, best-selling book, Zombie Loyalists, using great service to create rabid fans which we will get into too. So Peter, How are you? Welcome to the show. Peter Shankman: I am doing well, thanks for having me, good to be here. Jeremy Reeves: Sure, sure, yeah. I was excited when you came on you know, like I said, you have a very kind of interesting story. So you know, do you mind dive in a little bit deeper into you know, into your story kind of where you came from, what are you doing now that kind of thing. Peter Shankman: Yeah, I -- I do not even know what the hell I was doing. My basic logic was I started my career in America Online, I work for AOL back in the 90s when AOL was the internet, it was pretty awesome. My goal was to stay there forever 2-1/2 years into my career they laid off 300 of us in an hour, moved back to New York, I was kind of like -- you know, remember that great scene in Family Guy were Quagmire winds up getting into a fight and he does not know what the hell is going on, he gets out of the fight and he was like (inaudible 4:14) what is happening there you know. It kind of how I felt you know, in the 9 a.m. we had jobs, 10:30 a.m. we are all in the parking lot like what the hell, so you know. But it was great because I moved back to New York sort of consulting (inaudible 4:28) you know, I could do better and start a PR firm and do better than the big agencies because it was a dot com boom and I built a PR firm and the way I started that was, I had no money but it was a summer of 98, there was an independent film coming out on video that did not (inaudible 4:46) you might have not heard off called Titanic and I had 500 T-shirts printed out, the T-shirt read “It sank. Get over it” and I went to Time Square figured that we could sell 180 shirts that break even. I wind up selling 500 in 6 hours. Made $5k (inaudible 5:06) the story to USA Today. It ran on the front page. Sold 10,000 shirts on the web, cleared a $100k, the rest is history. Jeremy Reeves: Nice. I like it. Peter Shankman: Pretty insane. Anyway, that started my PR firm and after a few years, sold the PR firm and then eventually started consulting until such time when I launched HARO. HARO was sort of the game changer for me and now here we are. I give speeches, I go on TV, I ran an awesome mastermind group of about 130 entrepreneurs, (inaudible 5:38) Shankman is totally virtual and we are having fun. I am very lucky. Jeremy Reeves: Nice, yeah, that is awesome. Congrats on all that too. Peter Shankman: I am having a good time. Jeremy Reeves: Yeah, yeah. So what is your -- you know what, one of the things I am interested in is -- since you kind of you know, you used to like you know as you just mentioned, you kind of started a couple of businesses, sold a couple of businesses. Now you do things like angel investing, you are an adviser board and all that. So what is the typical day look like for you, you know, you see, you wake up at whatever time you know, it is kind of scattered, do you have a certain routine that you go through. What is that look like? Peter Shankman: Well, my day starts ridiculously early. I am usually up by 4 a.m. because I -- because the only time I can really go to the gym is early because my, you know, I have a kid and I have wife and I have a career. So if I want to go to the gym it has to be or if I want to work out it has to be sometime between 4 a.m. and around 6:30 or 7:00 in the morning. So I am at the gym, the gym opens at 5:30, I am usually there by 5:30 there is a bunch of us called the door club we are all standing by the door at 5:30 waiting to be let in or I am in Central Park running that early. I actually got arrested for exercising in such a park before it opened. Jeremy Reeves: I did not even know that they had an opening -- Peter Shankman: Right, and then apparently -- I did get arrested for running into the park before it open. I apparently got arrested for telling the cop how do you close nature and when he said, what are you doing here. I said, you know, I am wearing running pants and running shirt and sneakers, I am like what am I doing, seriously, look at me you know, I am giving hand jobs for crack. What do you think I do. It is probably not the best answer but, yes. I am out super early and I am working out super early because if I do not work out I do not have a good day. My brain functions very different with normal people brain. I have ADD. I have ADHD and how I managed it is to exercise and doing things that naturally increased my dopamine and serotonin. One of those things is of course exercise. So I am up super early, and then I am in the office usually by 7:45 -- well, when I am in New York, I am in the office by 7:30 or 7:45. When I am not in New York, I am on the road, it varies like I could be speaking in the conference, I could be flying overnight to Singapore you know, next week I am in Dallas and Austin the following week I am in Cebu, Philippines, so it really, it varies. So for me it is really about using the time I have the best way I have to use it. Jeremy Reeves: Got you. That make sense, nice. So how about some of the things you know, doing like being an angel investor and that kind of thing. How does that -- are you allowed, I do not know if you are allowed to say the (inaudible 8:14) for or not. Peter Shankman: I can say some of them. I am an angel investor in company called Namely they are doing incredibly well. They are online HR, an HR management in the cloud. They are doing unbelievably well. I am so fortunate to invest in them. I am an angel investor in a company called DailyWorth. DailyWorthis (inaudible 8:32) they are an online portal for financial information for women and I am on the board of several companies including SCOTTeVEST technology-enabled clothing and (inaudible 8:45) 9 or 10 different ones and of course, they are all (inaudible 8:51). They teach, they work with companies who improved Youtube. So a lot of companies. Jeremy Reeves: Okay, nice. So what are your thoughts on you know, when you are -- when you are kind of looking at companies and you have a lot of experience with all kinds of different companies you know, what are some of the big things that people kind of do wrong, you know, and I kind of have a feeling of you know, what you are going to say, but you know, just kind of in general, you know, do people you know, are they too boring you know, is there something -- you have a lot of experience in different kinds of areas you know. What are some of the things that you see that when you are looking at the company and they are doing that you think like it is kind of like a, Yes, I want to be involved with that, and on the other side, you know, if they are not doing certain things you are like, no I am going to skip that. Peter Shankman: Well, the first thing I can say is that if company is very -- they need to be very aware of who I am in sort of what my story is, like, you know, my favorite example I had a company who was a -- they made stuff for the GoPro. They made like a really cool attachment for the GoPro camera and the guy comes in and he was like, Yeah, I want to talk to you about GoPro. I am like, great, (inaudible 10:01) and I met with him for a coffee and he brings the GoPro and he was like, you know, I brought this GoPro just in case you do not know what it was, in case you did not know what it was, and okay, so one of the first thing you see about me when you Google me is that I am a skydiver, alright. I am actually the first skydiver who jump with a GoPro. Jeremy Reeves: Oh really. Peter Shankman: Yeah, because I met Nicholas Woodman, the founder at CES in 2005 and he gave me one to play with and I jumped. So I am the first person to jump with a GoPro and it is like, really you could not Google for 5 God damn seconds, how could I possibly trust whatever it is you are trying to pitch me on. So that just kills me. Do your homework for God’s sake. Then also be smart, you know, be intelligent (inaudible 10:40) on time. I spent my life working on being 15 minutes early, everywhere. How hard is that. Oh, the train, bullshit trains were late all the time. Prepare for that. That tells me so much about you even before I meet you. Having a cellphone does not give you the right to be late. So that is just a huge thing for me. Jeremy Reeves: Me too, I got that one (inaudible 11:04) he was the same way and now I am. I literally cannot, I mean countless times I have gotten on the phone with potential clients and you know, it hits 1:00, I call 1:00 you know, and then they are like, Oh, wow you know, you are punctual, you called right on 1, I am like, really, do other people not you know what I mean. Peter Shankman: That something tells me also is you know like people email me, Hey, (inaudible 11:27) talk to you about (inaudible 11:29) and if I happened to be in my office that will be great, I will call them right back and then they are like, Oh, we did not -- Oh, you have just emailed me, you did not expect to call back, and then they are like, No, not really. We thought may be in the few days. Well, Hi, how can I help you, you know. Jeremy Reeves: So tell me little about the book you know, great service to create rabid fans. And also, how did you come up with Zombie Loyalists. Peter Shankman: Basic (inaudible 11:57) Zombie Loyalists is simple. If you are a you know, everyone has that 1 friend who is like in love with the other friend or whatever right. Where do we go for lunch, Oh my God, (inaudible 12:07) you know, he has had a great experience in some point of his life (inaudible 12:10) he wants to drag you there because he loves it so much. That is a zombie look, he wanted to be someone who has had that great experience, right, but here is the thing, we expect to be treated like crap. In the customer experience we expect to be treated like (inaudible 12:23) think about your last flight. Jeremy Reeves: Yeah, I am going on 1 tomorrow. Peter Shankman: All they have to do to be perfect, to make you thrilled is simply to take you there, get there on time on the seat you requested at the time you requested, if they do that you are going to be over the moon but that is what they promised you, they do. You are thrilled about that, it tells you how bad service is if you are thrilled about the fact that your flight was normal, right. So what is that say, you know, I do not need you to be (inaudible 12:56) couple levels above crap and you win the game. That is the zombie loyalist, you know, treat the zombie loyal as well, they will become your biggest fans. Jeremy Reeves: And do you have any -- is there anything specific to kind of look out for with that like you know, do you tell people to like kind of go out and research your competitors you know, go and buy their stuff, go work with them and see what their service is and then figure out ways to kind of beat that or you know. Peter Shankman: I think that for me it is just how would you like to be treated. How would you like your mom to be treated, right. Ritz-Carlton does not hire people who can fold bed sheets, they hire people who like people. So that is why I tell people can you treat your employees or your customers the way you wanted to be treated, the way you want your mom to be treated. If you can do that then you are going to win. Again, it is not rocket science and it kills me (inaudible 13:51) all these people, Oh, we are doing this for training. Just treat them nice, just be a good person. This is not, you know, look I love it because at the end of the day, the worse you are, the easier my job is. My longest relationship before my wife was a woman who told she was not going to out on a second date with me until I stood up when she went to the bathroom and then I press her so much that we did it for 4 years. Jeremy Reeves: Really? Peter Shankman: Yeah. So, how hard is that for God’s sake, you know. Jeremy Reeves: Nice, I like it. When you are on the adviser board of different companies and you start your own whatever, is that some of the stuff that you look at you know. Do you go out and research competitors and then figure out, like is that one of your main strategies for going to business or is it kind of you know. Peter Shankman: It is, I mean they charge you for (inaudible 14:41) the main strategy for figuring out what you know, what they are doing or what they could be doing better you know. I subscribe to all my competitors new letters. I subscribe to all my investments competitor’s newsletters, I want to see what they are doing. And I want to know how I can do it and make it even better. Jeremy Reeves: Yeah and that is one of the things that people do not understand this. People oh you know, there is competition and everybody wants to go into this like you know, the new niche with no competition. Peter Shankman: I love competition. Competition gets me up on my toes. If you go into (inaudible 15:12) you become complacent. Complacent will kill you. Jeremy Reeves: Yeah, exactly. That is exactly how I feel about it and so many people are just afraid of competition and I always think well how mediocre are you, you know, that you are worried about you know, a new competitor on the block. I mean you should look at that and say okay here is the new guy that looks like he is you know or girl whatever you know, that looks like they are beating what we are doing. How do we then up our game you know to blow them out of the water. Peter Shankman: And again, people do not bother to think that way, Oh my God, it is not that major thing, just be a little bit better than what people expect. Jeremy Reeves: Yeah, same thing with flying you know. I just got back from San Diego and then I am going on National tomorrow and actually this time, tomorrow we are taking -- it is me and my wife and both of our you know, our 2 little boys and it is their first time flying so that -- we will see how that goes (inaudible 16:05) But yeah, I mean I am going there expecting that something is going to -- something bad is going to happen, you know what I mean. Peter Shankman: No questions about it and that is what so crazy. That is what so crazy. Jeremy Reeves: Okay. So I was just going to question completely -- speaking of action, you know what, let us actually use that to talk about ADD. So I mean a lot of entrepreneurs suffer from that you know. It is the whole not only just like you know, a shiny object syndrome which might be a part of the whole ADD thing, but you know, I think a lot of entrepreneurs are very you know, they either have diagnosed ADD or they you know, could be diagnosed with ADD. So talk a little about that you know, what is your experienced with it you know, how long have you been you know, how long is it affected you, how bad is it affected you and kind of like you know, tell us a story about that you know, how you kind of figure out that you needed, you needed to get (inaudible 17:06) and then what you did and kind of some of the ways that you cope with it and -- Peter Shankman: Well actually for me, my -- what I realized is actually the benefit. Having ADD is actually a benefit for me. It allows me to get my work done at a much faster pace. It allows me to be much more creative as long as I have the tools needed to manage it because if I do things that negatively affect me then I am in trouble. So you know, for instance, I have 2 types of clothing when I am on TV or giving a speech, I have button down shirt, jeans, and shoes. When I am not giving a speech and on TV, I have a t-shirt, jeans, and sneakers and that is all that is in my closet. I have 2 suits that sit in the corner for when I need them but other than that nothing because if I have to sit every morning and thinking about what to wear that is going to be 45 minutes, right. So for me I would rather not have to think about that. I would rather be able to spend time focusing on things that are important to me. So I called it removal of choice. So I removed certain choices from my life to make it easier for me to get things done. Another example, I -- whenever I give speeches, my contract basically says, I will speak for you, you will pay me except in Las Vegas. In Las Vegas, it says, that I am writer (inaudible 18:15) on the ground from wheels down to wheels that is from 1 to 8 hours because Vegas is not a good place for me. Jeremy Reeves: I can imagine why. Peter Shankman: And as long as I know that I am able to work my life in such a way that it works for me and again that is what has to happen because I you know, doing that, it allows me to be beneficial to myself and elimination of choice allows me to avoid doing stupid shit. That is it, that is the best (inaudible 18:45). So you know these things that work for you and things that do not and you focus on them and that is how you live your life. Jeremy Reeves: Yeah. I think a lot of people are really you know, a little I do not know afraid maybe, like to really understand themselves. It is very, it is very rare that I meet someone who really understands how they work and then actually build their life around that you know. Peter Shankman: I do not think I have a choice. I really do not believe I have a choice because I think if I do try to do something without fully understanding the consequences, bad shit will happen. I joke all the time that on any given day I am 3, I am only 3 bad decisions in a row away from being a junk in the streets. So I have to make sure that I do not make those 3 bad decisions and the best way for me to do this is to understand myself you know, end of story. Jeremy Reeves: Okay, nice, I like it. So when you are talking about Las Vegas, I come across a lot of people who have very limited mindsets and they think that -- so for example, they deal with you know, whatever certain ways of working or on a certain industries or whatever it is and they are afraid to tell their clients that, Hey, look this is how it work, if we work together, this is how it is going to be you know, that kind of thing rather than the client kind of demanding it from them you know. So talk to us a little bit about you know, were you always like that, were you always just to say like look, this is who I am, if you do not like it you know, screw you. Peter Shankman: I understand why people are afraid of that sometimes, but you should know you do not want to lose the business or not gain the business whatever, but you know, on the flip side, not doing that usually winds up being worse because then what winds up happening is that you do not have the ability to do what you want or the way you want it and you are not working at your best. The best example I can give you is you know, if you are married or you are with someone, you are in a relationship you know, wouldn’t you at some point say, Hey, here is what I like bed. If you do not do that, how miserable are you today. So why wouldn’t you tell that. It makes everything better. You have to be able to do that. No question about it. Jeremy Reeves: And you know what most people, most people appreciate that I think you know, I do that like when I am working a new client they get a PDF document of basically how I work because I have some weird, I have some weird quirks and stuff like that too. Mostly everybody does and I mean pretty much everybody is. It is just being able to just say, Hey, look that is who I am you know, if you do not like it that sucks, do not work with me, work with somebody else. Peter Shankman: We are on the exact same page. I agree. Jason Swenk: And even marriage too. Me and my wife actually just had -- actually a very similar conversation the other day because we do that really regularly you know. We always look at each other and say okay you know. What is good with the marriage, what is you know, what do we need to work on let’s you know, all that kind of thing and -- and it is -- I am one of those guys that I like to bring up things the second there is even like 1 little down tip in it you know, versus if it is you know, if you are starting in 10 and let us just say 3 is like kind of disaster zone, most people wait until it hits 3. I figured if it hits 9.5 you start talking about it. Peter Shankman: Well, (inaudible 22:00) because then you can get out of your system and you are fine. Jeremy Reeves: Yeah, exactly. Peter Shankman: And that is you know, (inaudible 22:04) they also does it all the time. I want to get it out and done and finish. Okay, let us fix this answer and then you know, you want to be able to -- so that is my problem. I (inaudible 22:21) sometimes I scream, right. I yell because that is how I get my -- if you listen to me I can yell and get out of my system, I am done, but you know, if you have someone in your life who shuts down, who does not like when people yell and she winds up not listening to you. You wind up being feeling like no one is listening to you. P.S. nothing gets accomplished. So I have learned to change how I do that from time to time because it makes it, it makes it you know, the other thing that is massive for me that I learned is I cannot change anyone else. All I can do is improve myself and if the other person wants to change me (inaudible 22:55) half way awesome, but I cannot ask them to do that you know and you are not going to be able to change anyone else. So the best thing you can do is focus on changing yourself. Jeremy Reeves: Yeah, yeah. Just for 1 example of that I mean you might have just for your wife for example, you know, you might have 1 trait about her that you do not like but she loves you know, so instead of asking her to change that and having her get rid of something that she loves about herself is better for you to just come to understanding and like try to also love it you know or if you cannot love it then just be able to let it go. Peter Shankman: Exactly. Jeremy Reeves: Alright, I know you have to get off here quick. So I only have 1 more question, this is more of something, I do not know if you do this or not but so you are, you know, you are big with the whole PR thing and you do a lot of stuff like the t-shirts you know, you are a very good at basic commanding attention you know, have you ever, have you ever taken that because I am more of a direct response kind of guy. So I kind of do that same thing but do it with like direct mail. So for example, you know, send like a coconut with a little, with a little like chisel on the hammer and they like have to hammer to open the coconut to get the message out from the inside stuff. Have you ever, have you ever kind of play in it, it is called wamp email or 3d mail, there is a couple different names for it. Have you ever played around stuff like that. Peter Shankman: I love the concept. Jeremy Reeves: Yeah, it is kind of you know, it is kind of the same thing as doing you know, there is big like media grabbing like PR stunts but you are doing it instead of on a mass scale, you are basically doing it to, you know, individual businesses you know, and I usually used it, it is more for like you know, high-profile clients that kind of stuff because you are trying to you know, get their attention because those guys are getting you know, thousands of emails everyday and all that kind of stuff, so it is hard getting to them, but I am actually, I am actually going to start doing -- doing it in a kind of secret project we are about to start, but yeah, that is -- I just want to see because I figured that, that would be kind of something your zone, you know, because you are good with kind of commanding attention you know (inaudible 24:59) to look into. Peter Shankman: Definitely. I love it. I mean for me, you know, I, (inaudible 25:04) called the PT agency because we showed up every month randomly but one of our clients should bring pizza and sit down, talk to them. We get some great ideas from them because they did not feel that they are being build, they did not feel like they were doing anything like that and they love (inaudible 25:16) that became sort of famous words. Jeremy Reeves: I like that. Peter Shankman: And it helped a lot. Jeremy Reeves: I think I might steal that concept. I might. I like that a lot. Alright, well hey, I know you have to jump off here soon. I just want to thank you for coming on. Before we get off, you know, do you want to tell our audience where to go to you know, find out more about you, get on your list, you know -- Peter Shankman: Yeah, my entire life is at Shankman.com and on the mastermind they were on the shankminds.com it is a virtual mastermind with a 130 brilliant entrepreneurs from around the world. It is about the cost of 8 lattes a month and we do some really incredible things. Jeremy Reeves: Nice, I like it. It is cheap too. I was expecting it would be a lot more than that. Actually, I am going to look into it. Peter Shankman: Please do, yeah, (inaudible 25:57) we love to have you. Jeremy Reeves: Yeah, nice, sounds good. Everybody check out Shankman.com. The website will be in the show notes and all that kind of stuff so just click on the link in there, yeah. Peter, I appreciate you coming on and we will talk to you soon. Peter Shankman: Glad to do it Take care. Jeremy Reeves: Thanks.  

Remember the secret project I've been talking about for a few months? It's now LIVE! Go to www.FunnelTalent.com to check it out.

In this episode, we talk with Jonathan Friedman, the founder of an amazing new tool called "Reactful". It allows you to take advantage of the behavior your visitors are taking on your site and react to them in real-time, which of course boosts conversions. In this episode, we go deep into the psychology about why this approach works so well and how you can implement it into your business. Enjoy! Resources Mentioned * Reactful* Kinowear Want To Work With Me? Visit http://www.JeremyReeves.com or email me at Jeremy@JeremyReeves.com Enjoy! Transcript Hey guys and girls, this is Jeremy Reeves with another episode of the sales funnel mastery podcast and today we have on the line Jonathan Friedman and he is the founder and CEO of Reactful which you are going to find really, really interesting. Basically, I am going to let Jonathan kind of tell you exactly what it does, but just from my perspective basically what Reactful does is when people are on your website, when they are on your various pages, it does not matter what page, it could be your home page, your sales page, you know, whatever it is. You can set different triggers to happened when they do certain behaviors on your website. So you know, I am going to let him kind of explain the nitty-gritty details about that but everybody on this you know that is listening to me knows that I am a huge, huge, huge believer in behavior-based marketing and that is exactly what this is except now you can do it right on your website, you know, most of the stuffs that I talked about is doing it via email campaigns, you know, if they stay at certain pages or whatever, you send them into a certain you know, certain email sequence. With Reactful, you can actually do it based on like their behavior on the site whether you have their, you know, their email or not. So it is a really, really, really cool tool. I have been kind of playing around with it this morning. I am going to start my own test both on my own -- on jeremyreeves.com and then also my side businesses. I am going to start using it with some clients. It is a really, really cool tool and I want to have Jonathan to kind of tell you, you know, his story why they built it, what it does, you know, what it can do for your conversions and your site and yes, so let us get into it. So Jonathan how are you? Jonathan Friedman: I am doing well. Thank you Jeremy, thanks for having me. Jeremy Reeves: Sure, sure, sure, yeah. You know, when you reached out and I took a look at it, I always like to do kind of a test run, you know, I never want to recommend anything that I have not tried myself and I would not, you know, use myself and so I got into it this morning and it was just, it is amazing, you know, I was talking you know before we started the podcast that one of the big things that I like, you know, the whole what it does with this is I mean it is a complete no brainer because, you know, I mean it is almost impossible not to increase your conversions because you are showing people things based on their actual behavior, but what I really was, was happy to see, I am a huge, huge stickler with software that is easy to use like I never -- I guess I am just part of like just the apple thing like, you know, there is never instruction manuals with anything apple it is just you picked it up and it works and you know how to do it. And I was really happy that when I started kind of playing around with Reactful that is exactly how it was, like I did not have to look anything up. I did not have to figure out like okay, how does this work it just like -- it just popped up and you just, you know, you start testing stuff. So you know, good job on the -- you know, the design of everything, you know. But tell everybody, you know, give your own kind of summary of -- Jonathan Friedman: Your feel. Jeremy Reeves: Yeah, your own feel of you know, tell us your story. Tell us -- first of all why you created Reactful and then also you know, what it does and how it can help people. Jonathan Friedman: Sure. Maybe I will start from why we actually started building this. Jeremy Reeves: Sure. Jonathan Friedman: So we started out -- actually, you know, a lot of entrepreneurs have stories where they said, yeah, you know, I was walking home and I could not find a -- I do not know a car so I build a car business. So for us it was not that way. Actually, I had started before. We sold software to HR. Eventually, I managed to sell it but it was not a huge success and what I said is okay, I want to do B to B but never sell to HR ever again. And we started looking up, okay, who would you want to work with and really quickly we saw that marketers and you know, the digital managers, the people that kind of tried to get the corporate message across with people who want to work with, they are agile, they are hip, they are friendly, everything we want to have and they have budgets and they want to work with them and get results and if you can them their results they will work with you. There was kind of (inaudible 11:46) and when we (inaudible 11:48) start talking to these people is that there was a huge, huge gap between what they were expected to do and their actual abilities. So you know if you are marketer somewhere and your boss says, Hey, get me a lot of leads and okay you need to start you know, often you do not know how to analyze data. You do not know how to program. You do not know how to design. You do not know how to kind of work your website in any such way. You need a lot of different people to kind of help you out and in order to do the smallest change and your website is usually your biggest legion (inaudible 12:21) machine. And when we saw that, we said, okay, there is a huge gap here of skills how could we make empower marketers and that is how we started building Reactful. Jeremy Reeves: Nice, nice, I like it. Yes, so tell everybody, you know, what is it actually -- and obviously, I already know, but you know, tell everybody what it does on your site kind of -- in your own words and kind of bring it back to like how it helps them you know, make more money, increase their conversions that kind of thing. Jonathan Friedman: Sure. So Reactful lets you react to your visitors digital body language on the site. So when your visitors are on there. They are touching website in all kind of ways. You know, they are scrolling, they are clicking somewhere, they are visiting different pages, they stay for different times, Reactful knows how to read all these subtle behaviors and interpret higher level human behaviors out of it. So for example, we can know if someone is hesitating, if someone is interested in reading a piece of ticks rather than skimming it. If someone is confuse, if someone is about to exit, if someone stopped the video in the middle. All kind of interesting things like that and not only do we inform the marketer about them, we also let you react and the reaction part is just a visual change that happens in real time. And then it can also be anything, it can be a button shaking suddenly when someone is confused. It can be a message coming up from the top, the bottom of the site. It can be highlighting a piece of ticks. It can be a folding the whole element in 3D and showing a message behind it. Different kind of visualizations. And then the system also test all these kind of reactions you set up and tells you if they were actually successful in helping you increase your conversion. So there are many scenarios you can work with. You can say, okay, if someone is confused on this part of my about page, I want to shake this buttons likely and have them notice that or if someone is about -- if someone stops my video on my you know product page, then I want to have a message saying, Hey, you know that what I want to say, you have a 10% coupon you know if you know, that is what I wanted to say, that is my bottom line. There are many, many scenarios you can enable based on your anonymous, the anonymous behavior of your visitors in real time. Jeremy Reeves: Nice, I love it. Yes, so 1 example of this I am -- you know, you guys know I have Kinowear, the site that shows guys how to dress better and we are in the process of testing the text sales letter versus the VSL to see you know which, you know, which one converts better. So one of the things that I am -- and this is just one idea of you know many that I have so far, but one of the things that we are going to try is play the video and you can actually -- there is all kinds of different triggers that you can use. So there is you know, timer, there is -- if they are idle on the page, if they complete a goal, if they are exiting the page, if you know, if they click certain thing, if they are you know, filling up a form and they leave it, if they -- you know, in my case, you can do things with video, right. So if they finished the video, you can have something happened, maybe it is a -- you know, maybe the form pops up or whatever or maybe it is something you have a button that pops up and says, you know, keep scrolling down or you know whatever it is. You can also do things if like once they actually play it and most importantly I think with video, this one is really cool is if they pause the video, you know. One of the scenarios that I am going to test you know, a lot of my audience they might pause it because, you know, they are watching the video maybe they get in, I do not know, 5 minutes and then they pause it because they get distracted, right. Well you do not want them to -- you do not want them to like be distracted for too long you know, maybe they are distracted only for a second you know, someone comes and ask them a question and then they go and hit play again, but you do not know if that is going to happen. You do not know why they are distracted, but you do know that they are distracted . So one of my ideas was to say, okay, well if they press pause, why do not we have a little form pop up that says, Hey you know, you may have gotten distracted, do you want us to just send you the text version of this video and then that way they can -- and you know, and will test with an opt-in form with just a button to see you know kind of which one does better but that way, you know, they are on the video and if they do pause it then -- like, you know in your head the kind of behavior they are taking is, well, they got distracted for some reason. So you do not want them to just kind of leave the page. You want to be able to follow up with them. So you could send them you know, the text letter. And that is just kind of one you know one idea of a lot that I have but it is really -- there is a lot of you know, kind of different triggers that you can do and there is a lot of ways, a lot of different things that you can test which is you know, which is really cool, you know. So why don’t you tell us about you know, some of the -- some of the things that you guys and your clients and stuff. Why don’t you tells us about some actual tests you know that people have been doing and some of the results that people are getting with it. Jonathan Friedman: Sure. So based -- the stuff you mentioned so for example someone pausing the video and someone you know, watching the video all the way to the end or if someone is starting to play a video and also all the other the confusion (inaudible 17:45) to idle. All these we create them to -- think about the physical world, if you were sitting in a store, imagine you can sit you know, kind of shrink yourself and sit on your site and watch every visitor as they go by and kind of strike a conversation with them based on what they are doing. So if they you know, take forever to move from 1 page to another you can say, Hey buddy is everything okay, you finding what you are looking for, and if someone goes straight to the check out page and starts saying up (inaudible 18:13) you know goes really quick, you can say, Hey great, do you want that as well because this is also something you might be interested in. So I mean this kind of conversation you can strike up with random and anonymous visitors in real life if you are sitting in the physical store. Those are 2 things you can do in digital store or digital site. And these are all kinds of things are customer test. For example, classic what we had is when a visitor is idle on the page and idle means if they are not touching their mouse or keyboard for certain amount of time or they are in different tab and they did not come back meaning that they are on your site but they are not really on your site I mean you know, with their mind. Jeremy Reeves: It is kind of like when you talk to somebody and your listening but you are actually thinking about something else. It is kind of the same thing. Jonathan Friedman: Exactly and you know and then what happens you know, if you are in kind of conversation like that and your friends suddenly says, you know, Hey Jim, and then you are like, wait, you know, you kind of wake up to it then you are back in the conversation. So same thing in the digital world, I mean that we idle, meaning the session does not flow like a normal session would. There is something, you know, there was a holdup, it does not mean it is a bad holdup necessarily, but it was one, and it is good to know and if you can react and kind of do something about it is even better. So classic one was reacting to all kind of visitors who are idle in different cases of your website. If they idle on your homepage maybe you know, maybe you do not want to do anything because it is such an early kind of page, look maybe if they are idle doing some kind of checkout flow maybe then you would want to do something. For example, one of our customers InsideView, they were testing just with idle visitors, they spotlighted a form that they have on the page. The used it on the direct (inaudible 20:12) with many pages and what they saw is that when people are idle on it when they came back and they highlighted just -- highlighting means that the form gets kind of light on it where everything else is slightly dim and they saw that little effect that almost looks, sound silly in the way, but that kind of refocuses people on the form and actually got a lot more. They have almost double the conversion rate just from doing that. And you know, on the directory, it was the case where you know, people come in and they usually they are like there and then they go out. It was not like you know a very clear flow on the main website. It was just directory which I used to kind of source people and people come in and out and if people are idle there you know, they go to the another page and get distracted and then they come back, they are like, what was I doing, never mind and they close and go away. Suddenly when they had like, Oh, okay, interesting then you know, (inaudible 21:09) continue and you can save some of these visitors and get them to sign up. Jeremy Reeves: Nice, I love it, yeah I mean -- it is very powerful you know, in what you can do you know, I keep saying that but it really is. I am so excited that there is you know, I have been telling people for years and years and years to do this type of stuff but the kind of the roadblock you know, the hurdle of it was the software you know, because it is only really like in the last I do not know, 6 or 12 months that like all these really cool kind of behavioral software has been coming out you know, I know HubSpot has some stuff but that is you know, tons and tons of money, I think it is like $15k or something like that. You know, it is just, things are getting better and better and better and the more you know it really comes down to the fact that the more that you can predict your customer, the higher conversions that you are going to be you know and you can kind of only go like I mean part of my job when I am writing copies is to predict what people are going to think you know what I mean. So the more that you understand the market, the higher your conversions it going to be you know on average. But what is really cool is you know with this you can do it based on like actual behavior they are taking you know what I mean, and it is -- I am really excited for it. I am trying to add it -- I was telling you I have a really short week this week because I am going on vacation but I am trying to add it to my to do list to get the test set up and started. So I am really excited to test it. Jonathan Friedman: What you are saying is completely true I mean we are merging more and more with our technology. We are using more and more I mean probably I do not know about you but you know me and my cellphone and I am guessing you as well probably most of the listeners. You know, you cannot live without your cellphone or your computer. Some part of your technology is really part of you and the better machines get understanding humans understanding behaviors and then they can predict what we want and give it to us the more human-like it will feel and that experience -- if you can do that for your, when you are trying to do conversion and you also can predict what your people are thinking you know, whether it is copy, whether it is using Reactful or almost anything if you can kind of make your -- well you can think about your site as kind of software, if you can make it more reactful I would say, it is just like -- we called it emotional intelligence sometimes. You can kind of understand humans better than, yeah, you can do a lot and you can surprise the visitors that you have and kind of get better conversations with them. That is what we are trying to be part of. Jeremy Reeves: Yeah, yeah you know and I think, you know, you are on something good here you know. I was telling you if I own a SAS company and this is something along the lines of something that I would build myself you know what I mean. You know and I am not going to be competing do not worry, I have no plans you know, I have no plans in the near future to do any software. It is on my plate for sometime but I do not know what I can do yet. But I know this is like the type of thing that I would do so I am glad that, you know, that it is out there. So yeah, I mean, you know, if -- I am trying to -- I have a question, but I am trying to think of how to -- how to word it the right way. Where do you think is a good place for people to start, you know, like when they are looking at their conversions and you know everybody kind of goes and you know, you kind of have like your own you know theory of what is going to work and what is not. That is why I like in the conversion testing where it was like you know, you can come up with a hypothesis first and then you build a test around your hypothesis and all that fun stuff. But like when you are, you know, when you are thinking off so let us just say that is somebody is looking at you know they put in a code to start it. Do you have like any kind of you know process that you go through, because there are so many different like I have it up right now so I am just going to click getting reaction. So alright, so I have it up on my services page right now. So let us just say that you know, you pick a page on your site, you have the code on there and the -- I wish people could see it right now. Unfortunately, it is just an audio but you know, I have the software up and I am you know kind of in like okay, now what test do I make. You know, do you have any, any kind of advice for people on how to, how to choose what to actually do you know, like what to actually test you know because there are so many different options that a lot of times people get like kind of decision fatigue you know, they get paralyzed by so many different options they can take you know, do you have any advice for people on how to actually when you are looking and they say, okay, you know, here is what I am going to do first. Jonathan Friedman: Sure. That is a very, very good question. So when we build the studio, we called it (inaudible 26:18) reaction studio where you can actually program to trigger and then the reactions that will come and responds to these triggers. What we thought, it was very early on (inaudible 26:29) okay, great, look (inaudible 26:30) marked as a tool and they will build a great stuff and they do, but we thought the second question almost like when we came out there and showed it to the different customers. The second question was, but you have been doing a lot of (inaudible 26:44) right, can you tell me what they should do (inaudible 26:47) focus on so that was the main question and I wish actually I wish I could already show you the next version that is coming up next month. It is huge. It is a huge, huge, overall, the one of the major things that is going to come there is what we called revelations. So revelations, like you mentioned, there are tons and tons and tons of way to slice and dice your website information and your visitors information according to so many variables and different patterns, that it is sometimes hard to think okay what should I tweak, should I think about returning visitors, should I target confused visitors, should I target confused visitors from Australia you know, all these are valid questions you can easily kind of drown in the sea of information or data. You know the problem is not lack of data. There are tons of data out there and there are many, many, many tools that give you data. When we (inaudible 27:45) simplicity common from before is how to make it simple and easy. So the (inaudible 27:53) coming up there is a revelation section and the revelation is actually the system learning your site coming up with an interesting analysis, so saying, Hey look, people start filling out the form in your about page but 7.5% of them stop midway and then we also recommend how to react to that. We can tell you, Hey, you should react with a tooltip which is actually true, you should react with a tooltip that will show up in real time and tell them to continue and try that. And how do we know it works because we have tons of clients were they implemented this kind of reaction (inaudible 28:30). And then with 1 click you can click on react now and launch that reaction. So not only do we scan your sites to find interesting piece of data that you should probably kind of be interested to look at. You will be able to launch a reaction and fix it and measure it with 1 click. Jeremy Reeves: That is awesome. I like that. You know, that is -- yeah I mean I know -- I know just from coaching clients you know, and working with clients you know, both like the you know, the coaching side and the done for you side. I know that a lot of in action comes from not knowing how to prioritize you know what I mean because you know, a lot of, I mean there are so many like you know, everybody listening to this, think of your to do list you know, just in your head, at any given time, there is like 50 to 1000 different things you know, kind of rolling through your head all at the same time and that is because overwhelming. You are dealing with your employees, you are dealing with you know, your conversion rate, coming up with new products or email sequences, your pages, I mean it is like it goes on and on and on and on. So you know, a lot of like every pretty much every entrepreneur listening to this or I mean in the world knows that they should be testing different things you know. The problem is there are so many things to start with that so many people they do not start at all, you know what I mean. It is kind of like you know, when you started to diet, it is like, Oh my God, why do I have to change all these things. They just start with one thing you know, getting to nail that down and go to the next thing, nail that down and go to the next thing and all of the sudden, you know, you are in really good shape, you know what I mean. It is kind of the same thing with this. So I love that, that you are actually helping people like giving suggestions, you know what I mean. I have a whole system for you know, making decisions you know. I always narrow it down whatever it is at, whether it is 10 or 100, I narrowed it down to 3 and then I pit A against B and then the winner of that against C, you know what I mean. For me, that works really well rather than like okay, there is 10 things you know, which one do I want to go with and you are like, Oh my God, oh my God, you know, there is so many choices. Well if you just narrow that down to 3 which is pretty easy, it is really not that hard. You can usually pick like a top 3 that you know, that you think you would go with and then you just do one against one and then the winner of that one goes against the last one and then you have your winner, you know what I mean. Jonathan Friedman: It is smart. Jeremy Reeves: Yeah, it works for me. Everybody has their own, you know, their own ways of doing things but that works well for me, but -- Jonathan Friedman: It is a real issue, I mean, I have seen a pep talk about it that when he said, the decisions actually that kind of freedom to decide and when you go to the supermarket there are million things there, million box of cereals that you potential could like. Actually makes you less happy with the cereal you end up choosing just because you are thinking about all the other cereals that you did not take. So it is kind of funny that you know, it kind of works the other way and especially with this stuff, you are right the marketers have so many things on their head. Their boss says that, Hey you got to do this, you got to do that and they know they head will roll if they won’t do everything and testing requires time, it requires sitting in front of data thinking, hypothesizing, putting it in, creating processes in a little time even if they can do it, they do not have the time and they do not have the kind of mental energy to start this kind of processes. Jeremy Reeves: Yeah, yeah. I wonder if and maybe guys do this, but I wonder if it would be, I wonder if it would be useful to somehow link it to like analytics and I wonder if you can get ideas you know, from analytics you know, like you know, maybe time on page or I do not know, something like that, like get basically get information from analytics that would then kind of update in their suggested to do list, if you will. I wonder if that would be, because that is kind of how, that is how(inaudible 32:25) when I am making decisions either for one of my businesses or my clients or whatever, I always start with the data, you know, like what is the data say, you know, how -- if you are looking like if you are trying to test open rates will you go back and you look at you know, the past emails that you sent, okay well you know, which ones got the best open rates and what is the common theme in all these you know, and then you kind of just go like that. Same thing with you know, a lot of different page testing you know, (inaudible 32:52) you know, look at heat maps and look at videos of people going through the site and you know, and use that to make, to basically come up with a hypothesis which then you know, you come up with you know, whatever you are going to test. I wonder if you could, that would be interesting to kind of look at that. Jonathan Friedman: (inaudible 33:14) with Google Analytics but it is more for the reporting side meaning they get all the events and then we have plans to integrate and kind of grab past data and also get a lot of your goals so if you -- if it put in goals within your Google Analytics we could draw them in and kind of use them as well. So you are right, I mean, it is definitely -- I mean, if you want to do optimization, it is always the same flow, it is data insight change or action and then measurement and so yeah, the first obvious step is starting from data. A lot of times people (inaudible 33:52) run for a week just silent without doing any change or anything just to grab some data and then kind of see what they you know, different things they can test and try that. But the nice thing is because I mean, it is so easy -- I mean you can -- it is so easy to do and also there are so many false positive luckily you know where in the conversion space and not medical or anything. For false positives are not bad obviously you do not want a lot of them but if you start out with a few positives you had in your head you know, I think what, Hey, you know, this (inaudible 34:26) pages kind of confusing how about I launch a reaction to say give another message to people or confused you know ear. And if that does not turn up well it is okay you know, it might be that it is just does not even a negative consequences just neutral, so that is also not good but it is not, it did not destroy anything. So it is fine to (inaudible 34:46) start and also play around and you know, but if you have data, obviously start from that, that is the best way to start any optimization process. Jeremy Reeves: Yeah, definitely. I actually got an idea -- there is so many God, there are so many different ways that you can use this like I just thought while you are talking, if you do your let us see, what it is called, it is called confused right. So you can just click on element and then confused and then put it like in you know, in a section where you are seen and you can you know, like going into the data first if you had heat maps or something you know, and you saw like a cold area you know, then just use this to highlight that cold area and do like the you know, confused element and then just have a little like pop up or something that comes up and says, Hey, you know, is this confusing to you, you know what I mean and then you just have people click yes or no and then you know, and then maybe the second part is if they click yes, you put you know what is confusing (inaudible 35:45) like what don’t you understand and then you get feedback you know, like real-time feedback from visitors and then you change it, you know what I mean. I think I am going to actually use that one. I am a big, big, fan of doing surveys on pages you know what I mean. Exit pops surveys or something like Hey why don’t you buy you know that kind of thing I mean people tell you, you know, they -- if people -- I am you know, one of my philosophies that is that you know, a lot of people kind of like (inaudible 36:16) you know, they are like afraid of selling and it is like look if people would not be on your site if they weren’t interested in buying you know, what you have or they weren’t interested maybe not buying what you have but they have a problem that they are trying to solve you know what I mean. In your case it is, you know, low conversions you know, in a lot of my case it is lower conversions you know. So that is the problem so it is like they have that problem so you know, if they read your page if they come and they have problem A and your solution solves problem A and for some reason they do not buy well that means there is a disconnect somewhere on the page you know, maybe they are just in the wrong you know, kind of (inaudible 36:58) whatever it is, but there is a disconnect somewhere so if you do surveys and you do things like this where you can actually ask them questions about why they did not buy well most people tell you, well not most people but you will find that like if you have enough volume, you will find, you will get really, really good answers. I have done this you know, all of my sites and you know, client sites and stuff like that. You get really good answers and people is like, Hey, you know, I was here to look and see if you could help me solve A well, you know, I read your page and it does not seem like you can so then they will tell you why, you know what I mean. Jonathan Friedman: What you call disconnect, we in Reactful internally we call the missing piece. So there is some kind of missing piece and exactly right, I mean, we call this the “maybes” so you know, you have maybes on your sites. You have people that buy, you have people that won’t buy because they are not interested in this problem but if you -- like you said the people that have this problem and they are looking at your site, they are the “maybes” they have high purchases but there is a missing piece if they do not end up buying and if you can identify what it is either with surveys or you know, different means and give it to them that works well. With Reactful we are (inaudible 38:10) real time. Real time is the best way to try to kind of (inaudible 38:15) the missing piece because every time afterwards yes you can get them back it is just harder I mean you work a lot with emails which is obviously a great way to get people back, but it is just you know, you need expertise, you need to do a lot of work which is great I mean, you should obviously use MeMail as well. Do not just use Reactful but if you can somehow fix it in real time you save people from entering that campaign if you get -- already kind of fix it already on spot. Jeremy Reeves: Yeah, yeah, definitely. Yeah I mean I see, I see it you know, a ton of different ways that this can, this can help you but I know I am going to be using it. Is there anything else you know, that you think people should know before we you know, hop off. Jonathan Friedman: Well, we are launching a huge new version. It is coming up, it will come up end of April. You should definitely check it out. It has I think you know, we have been working for so long and the new version really (inaudible 39:13) everything we have kind of envisioned when we started building Reactful and so yeah, definitely check it out when it comes out and you know, feel free to (inaudible 39:24) or play with it today it is a really cool product I think and I hope, I hear you guys do. That is it. I would be happy if anyone you know, (inaudible 39:34) behavioral, digital behavior or just analytics I am happy to discuss. I have a lot of things I learned over the way, I am happy to share. Yeah, that is it. Jeremy Reeves: Yeah, sounds good. Well, if everybody wants to go check it out which by the way, I highly, highly, highly recommend you do because it’s a really cool piece of software and I actually do not even know how much is it by the way. Jonathan Friedman: Well, it ranges for low traffic websites it starts from $300 a month and you know, it goes up with traffic and the amount of domains you have, but it is not the crazy expensive tool and the high-end it can be a few thousand dollars depending on how many if it’s you know, depending on traffic and domains. Jeremy Reeves: Yeah, you know, I always think of things in terms of ROIs so even say you are making I do not know, I mean like a 10% increase is like nothing, you know what I mean. That is so easy, it is ridiculous. So if you figure -- if you are making you know, $3000 a month and you increase 10% you already paid for it you know. If you are making you know $30k a month, all you need is a 1% increase in your conversions to pay for this, you know what I mean. So it is a total no brainer but yeah, if anybody -- if anybody wants to go to check it out its Reactful.com and yeah go check it out if you have any questions for me you know, I am happy to answer them kind of just to I am not getting paid or anything like that to answer them, you know, kind of just to start a dialogue and you know, I like talking about marketing and yeah go and check it out and you know, ask me or John if you have any -- if you have any questions, if you want to you know, see if should be kind of you know, right for your website you know, if you are doing any kind of volume whatsoever it is definitely a game changer basically because you know, you can kind of you know increase conversions on the fly. You can answer objections on the fly based on the actual behavior they are taking on your website and it is you know, I mean that is just, it is so powerful to crazy so yeah, I highly recommend checking it out. John, before hop off anything else that you like to add. Jonathan Friedman: No, I really enjoyed being on the show. Thank you very much for having me and yeah, I will be happy to stay in touch and talk marketing from time to time. Jeremy Reeves: Yeah, sounds good. Alright, well guys I will talk to you soon. As always, if you enjoy this episode, share it with your friends, leave us a review and all that fun stuff and yeah, we will talk to you soon.

In this episode, I had a beer and was feeling generous so I decided to walk you through one 10-step template we use for client work, called the "personal coach campaign". This is a campaign designed to create loyal, raving customers and help them get better results from whatever it is you sell, plus upsell them to your other products and services. It's something that 98%+ of businesses are missing but 100% of you need! Once again get your pen and paper handy. It's a doozy! Resources Mentioned * http://www.Kinowear.com Want To Work With Me? Visit http://www.JeremyReeves.com or email me at Jeremy@JeremyReeves.com Enjoy! Transcript Hey everyone, this is Jeremy Reeves here with another episode of the Sales Funnel Mastery. I am here in Pennsylvania, I am always in Pennsylvania. I am here in Philadelphia, there we go. My brain is partially functioning today. I am here in Philadelphia. I am here down here for strategic coach who come down once a quarter. So I just got a good work at him. I now have a nice strong beer in front of me, it is a Stegmaier Octoberfest which if you are in -- if you ever get to see it, if you are in it, it is kind of a local beer from -- it is actually brewed about 10 minutes from my house, but if you ever get up into the northeast Pennsylvania area you should definitely try it. It is a really good Octoberfest if you are into you know, craft beer and things like that. So what I want to talk about today, I am actually if you guys do not know yet, I am in the middle of writing a book, right. So that is kind of awesome. I am really excited about it. We are actually -- we are about, we are roughly halfway done. I just started in the end of December. So it is now the very beginning of February, but halfway done and I am expecting to finish it within the next 2 weeks or so. So if anybody is out there and has been writing a book for like years, I think you are absolutely insane. It really does not take as long as you think it does. So what I am doing is actually, I am taking, not all the chapters can land themselves well to this, but I am taking out some of the chapters and I am actually recording it you know, as a podcast and you know, things like that, okay. So only really a couple of -- I like that but it is kind of a cool way of you know, 2 birds in 1 stone. So what we are going to talk about today is your buyer’s campaign, it is a personal coaching campaign is what I called them, right. Personal coaching campaigns are essentially you know, I have built, oh my God, I do not even know how many funnels, dozens and dozens and dozens, I do not know, hundreds, I don’t even know, but you know, we have gotten you know, whatever, around $50m in results for our clients and all these good things, right. One of the things that I have noticed and this does not go just you know, so you do not feel guilty, this is not just for people with businesses just starting out. I have seen 7-figure businesses really lack on this and what they are lacking in is taking care of their buyers, right. I mean, I cannot even remember the last time that I took on a project for a 7-figure client and they actually had a very specific buyer sequence in place. That is how bad this is, right. It is the absolutely ludicrous because they are the people that are paying you money. Everybody focuses -- I talked about this all the time -- everybody focuses on the people who have not given the money yet which is just freaking nuts. I just do not understand that. I mean, it is kind of like you know, you have, you know it is kind of like being out in the bar and you are trying to pick up a girl and there are 5 girls sitting you know, like in the, whatever, in a row or whatever and obviously if you are girl same thing for guys. So there are 5 girls sitting in the bar and you are going up, you are trying to talk to them. Well, 4 of them are like get away from me, you know, you are fat you are ugly, you know, I do not want to talk to you, you know, you are bothering me, right. And then the 5th one is like, Oh, yeah, hey, you know, she is just as pretty and gorgeous as all the other ones and she is like, Oh, yeah, hey, you know, come sit with us, you know, sit next to me, let’s talk. It is basically the equivalent of you going back to the 4 girls and trying to talk to them even though you have number 5 talking to you already and interested in you, okay. That is how insane this is. So hopefully, that kind of makes it clear. So what you do -- I am going to actually take you through. We have a little bit of a templated system for writing buyer’s emails for our clients and I call it the Personal Coach Campaign because what you are doing when you make this sequence is you just sold them something to get them some type of result. They want to get that result. So this campaign is dedicated to helping them get that result. That is really a simple as it is, okay. And then there is other things in there that we will talk about, but essentially, you are just trying to help them get that result that they want because most people, when they buy your product or your service are not going to actually use your product or your service, okay. So this campaign is to try to spur them in the action to try to get them the results of that they are looking for, okay. So basically, it goes like this. The first email, it is just kind of like a thanks, you know. Typical thanks email. There are a lot of different ways you can write it. I like to add a lot of personality into it, but these are fairly you know, they are pretty easy to write. It is kind of like thanks, you know, your order will be shipped out, here is your credit card, you know, your credit card will be shown as this and all the typical stuff. So that is kind of the immediate email, okay. And then emails number 2 and 3. This is only in roughly 10-day period. So emails 1, 2 and 3 are within the first roughly 10 days or so, okay. Email number 2 is essentially what to expect, okay. So it is kind of a prepped and this is, this is kind of you know, one thing to keep in mind is do not take this with a grain of salt because everything is different, alright. How am I going to say this is kind of like if you are sending physical products, but if you have SaaS business it is going to be basically your client on boarding sequence. It is going to be getting them to actually use the product because in SaaS there is a million study showing that people who do not -- you know, the faster people use your software, the longer your attention is going to be, okay. So you have to have these systems in place that on board the client gets them to use whatever it is that you are selling, whatever software as fast as possible, but it is the same thing if you are selling a physical product. It is the same thing if you are selling an information product. It is the same thing if you are selling a service. I have something like this that I do with my clients it is not like a 10 step sequence because I am talking to them one on one, but we just put in a new client on boarding system that essentially, instead of -- it is basically the same thing of what to expect, you know, you are prepping them for to get the results to do the business with you, okay. So in email #2, it is basically what to expect prepping them for what is to come and reminding them of something that can give them better results. So whatever your next upsell is you are reminding say, Hey, by the way, you know, if you have not seen it yet go check out this if you are looking for -- if you are, you know, if you are go getter, if you are a high achiever then go and get, go take a look at this, it is going to help you get better results easier. It is guaranteed, you know. All the various kind of copy tricks that you would normally put in email. That is email #2. And obviously, there is you know, we can go through template and template and template of each of these. This is just kind of a basic summary of each email. Number 3 and again, this is would be send on roughly the 10th day. Again, that is going to change depending your business, okay. Is what to do now that you have it. So you know, again, they might have it instantly so maybe you want to put this one second and just skip that second email, okay. Again, you have to be able to take this template and customize this to your business and that is why people do things like funnel days. That is why people hire us because we can do that for them. So anyway, so email number 3 is what to do now that you have it for better results. So it is kind of like we usually do 3 tips, you know, that is kind of our sometimes there is more, sometimes less, but for example, we just did one for a supplement, right and it was like for any kind of supplement, you want them to basically get in better overall health. So you put tips in there like, Hey, you know, as you are starting this also make sure that you are, you know, number 1 sleeping more, drinking more, eating better, exercising, you know whatever the case maybe, make sure that -- we always do something with habits because if it is something that you are prospect or client has to use, you need to get them in the habit of using it and that is really, really, really important and I cannot overstate it what I just said. So go back and you know, hit the little arrow that goes back 30 seconds to listen that again. You have to get your clients and customers into a habit of using your product or your service okay. Number 4, 5, 7, and 9 you know, and again, roughly okay. Kind of these middle emails. A lot of these are basically just using proof in different ways to then tell a story or transition into overcoming some type of objection to get them to the next step, okay. So maybe you want to use -- so number 4 maybe use a case study. So you tell a story about a guy you know, you can say, Hey, you know, Mark was one of our clients and you know, 6 months ago he was you know, hundred pounds overweight and you know, his doctor told him that his liver was failing and yada, yada, yada, yada he was going to die and then you know, he came to us and he said, ‘hey what can you do to help me?’ and we told him about this thing and how it, you know, how it changes your whatever, it changes your metabolism, it does this and this and this. Whatever the case maybe. So you tell a story that is wrapped in a case study. So it is a case study/story, okay. So you don’t -- it is not a testimonial. I want to make that clear. It is not a testimonial. It is a longer case study. Maybe think about it like 1 to 2 pages. So you are essentially just telling story about someone else in their position that got over you know, that got the result, got a better result by taking the next step which is whatever your next upsell is, okay. I hope it make sense. Email number 5 is roughly the same thing okay, by the way, emails number 4, 5, and 6, okay. So emails number 1, 2, and 3 are roughly in the first Sundays. Emails number 4, 5, and 6 are like number is going to go out on day 30, okay. So the first 6 emails are in the, you know, 30 days. This is a 60-day campaign just so you know. So we are at number 5 here, again, some type of proof which transitions to overcome an objection to the next step, okay. And again, it could be a case study. I mean, there is a lot of different you know, there is a lot of different forms of proof, okay. Pick one of them find something to back it up and then talk about it, you know. And that is again, if you need somebody to do it that is why you hire you know, somebody like us because we can do that easily. Email number 6 so that is 4 and 5 are basically using proof to overcome the objection which you know, to transition, to get them to take action to the next step, okay. Email number 6, again, roughly is 30 days and essentially this is the check in, you know. Hey, how you doing, you know you have it for 30 days, do you have any questions, is there any way we can help you, you know, did you get any results yet. If you have, then shoot them over to us. We would love to help you and get even better results and then by the way, when you reply then you say, hey, if you want to get better results we have this other thing for you. It is not to do it in like a weird way, it’s to do it if it is going to help them, okay. I have to reiterate that because a lot of people are going to do this just to sell something and that is so -- it is just such a wrong mindset. So you are only going to offer them something if it is going to truly help them, okay. Do not offer it to them if it is not -- if you do not believe in your heart that it is really not going to help them because it is unethical and it is just you know, morally wrong. So don’t do it. Number 6 again is 30-day check in. Number 7 again same thing as 4 and 5 just proof which transitions to overcome an objection to the next step. Number 8 is a referral request. So, Hey, you know, if you have enjoyed everything you have seen so far, if you have gotten results, if you have used our software and you love it you know, why don’t you share it with a friend and then you go into the benefits of why they should share it with their friends okay. Referrals have to be written in a kind of certain way to really be effective. You cannot just say -- most people when they are writing referrals, they kind of just say, Hey, you know, why don’t you refer us to your friends because we want more business and you know, it is like the worst pitch in the world. Essentially, what you have to say is, Hey, you know, we can create a win-win-win here. If you talk to us about your friends, number 1 you win because if you have ever told a friend about a restaurant or movie or a new kind of widget and they tried it and they loved it you know how happy that made you feel to help your friend to solve a problem or have fun or whatever the -- you know, be happy, right. So it makes you feel great to help your friend. It also helps your friend because they get helped to you know, solve the same solution that you did and you guys could even collaborate on it, you can talk about it together, so to try to form like a little tiny community there, get them talking about you, okay. And then the third win is that we win because we are able to serve one of our favorite customers and you know, we like to attract customers like our customers, you know. We like to attract -- we like to go out and find our best customers and then find people like them because we know that if you are doing everything that we are telling you, if you actually getting results that means that you are somebody that we truly respect and we know that you are probably hanging around with other people that are similar to you, okay. So in that type of language, right and that is your referral request and that is somewhere in the range of day like 45 or so. Number 9 is the same thing as emails 4, 5, and 7 and that is basically proof which transitions to overcome an objection to the next step, okay. So another case study is good here. I like to kind of do the first one of these as a case study. The middle two or some type of -- some type of like media proof like a scientific study or maybe somebody in the media talk about you or your method of doing things or whatever it is. Some type of proof outside of the company, okay that adds authority to you. And then email number 10 is a testimonial request. So you kind of set it up as, ‘hey’ -- and you can actually have -- in my, I own Kinowear, the website that shows guys how to dress better, right. So one of the things that we do -- we have not automated this yet, I really should. Kinowear is kind of my redheaded step child, it is you know, so again I always talk about why you should do all these things. Do not feel bad if you do not do all these things because I -- you know, I do funnels for a living on a daily basis. Every single day I wake up and do funnels. And I have my own side business and we are still working on the funnels. So you know, just because that side business is you know, a tiny fraction of you know, the revenue that my consulting business brings in. So we do not put that much attention on it, you know. The case is or the fact is, you should have some type of testimonial request and so we do it roughly once a quarter. It is not automated in that business basically because I am lazy. There is really no other you know, there is no other excuse. I am just being lazy but you can easily automate this and what we do is instead of just saying, Hey, why don’t you send us a testimonial because I mean nobody response to that, you say, you give them something right. So you can give them some type of upgrade, you can give them a free bonus, you can give them a gift certificate off of an another purchase, you know. One of the clients we are working with now is doing an Amazon gift card give away, you know, so when they, you know, actually that is set up in a different way but what you can do with that idea is send them to a giveaway and do maybe a month later or a quarterly giveaway were everybody who sends in their testimonials over that quarter can then join the giveaway and then they have a chance to win whatever it is right. And I am actually doing testimonial for somebody tonight actually, probably or tomorrow morning for strategic coach that is actually, exactly what they are doing is you make a video testimonial, you send it in and then they are choosing -- I think it is, I do not know, 3 or 5 people to have a consultation with Dan Sullivan personally, you know, which is the founder of strategic coach. So that is another way that you can do it you know, but again, it is -- you do not position this as Hey, help us. You always have to and this comes back to just copy you know, copy strategy is you cannot write it in a way that is hey, do this because it is going to help us. You have to write it in a way that is saying, ‘here is what’s in it for you’. So in the terms of a testimonial you know, they are kind of annoying. You have to go out of your way to do this especially video testimonials. So you say, ‘hey not only are we going to give you X, you know, also you are going to help people, you know, I am sure you care about other people that have been and you know’, you throw all the guilt trippin’ here. You can say I am sure that you, you know, do you remember what it was like you know, before you came to us and we helped you, you know. And then you could say something like, you know, there are you know, thousands and thousands and thousands and thousands and thousands of other people that are in the situation that you used to be in and this is your chance to actually help them. The reason that you are going to help them is because if you send in a testimonial, it is going to give them the confidence to move forward. It is going to give them the confidence to do business with us which is going to help them get the result they need and you can feel, you can feel you know, proud of the fact that you were able to help you know, you were able to help influence the you know, their decision of thousands of people over the next couple of years and change their life indirectly, you know, something like that, I mean I am just saying this on top off top of my head obviously if we wrote it, it would be a lot more concise and you know, written better but that is essentially the message that you are trying to get across. So that is it, if you are going to -- basically, if you have if you are selling anything, you should have a buyer’s sequence in place, right. And so one of the things that I am doing for one client now is we are doing a 2-phase funnel. So we just wrapped up phase 1 and he does not have his backend yet. We actually did a funnel day to help him, to figure out ideas for his backend because he is doing really, really well on the frontend, okay and then -- but he does not have backend and you know, and he said, okay, you know, let us get it on the funnel day to figure out how to make more money. So the first thing I said, was 'okay, you need a backend'. So we spend I think it was about 2 hours of the funnel day figuring out exactly what he was going to sell you know. So yeah, anyway, so that is it. I hope you enjoyed this. I hope you will share it with your friends because it is going to make you feel good, remember? I hope you share it with your friends. I hope you leave us a review and if you have any questions, comments, support@jeremyreeves.com if you want to work with us, if you want to -- if you have any questions about any of our products or you know, anything like that, if you need help in any way just shoot us an email, support@jeremyreeves.com if it is relevant, if my staff cannot answer it they will forward it to me or if you want to talk about you know, doing a project together then obviously they will forward it to me and yeah. I hope this helped you and I will talk to you soon.