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Build a scalable, impactful online business in this Marketing Speak episode with Bjork Ostrom, where we delve into the dynamic world of content creation, monetization, and optimizing digital assets. Bjork, recognized for his adeptness in growing online communities and monetizing content, began his journey with a humble blog that initially earned a mere $20. Alongside his wife, he transitioned from traditional jobs to creating food content on the internet, ultimately growing their blog to generate thousands of dollars per month. His success is rooted in continuous learning, content optimization, and strategic partnerships with ad networks like AdThrive and Raptive. The episode is a goldmine for anyone looking to build, monetize, and grow their online presence sustainably. Tune in! The show notes, including the transcript and checklist for this episode, are at marketingspeak.com/465.
Today I'm thrilled to share with you some invaluable insights from my recent conversation with Cassie Noyes, a leading expert in email solutions at the ad network, Raptive (previously AdThrive). But before we dive into the heart of email marketing, let me extend an invitation to you. If you're looking to explore a new income stream through selling digital products without the tech hassle, I'm here to help. Join me for a free 20-minute strategy call, and let's unlock your digital product potential together. Head over to milotree.com to book your free slot! The Critical Role of Email in Today's Blogging Landscape In this episode, we're taking a detour from the usual topics like SEO and site optimization to focus on something that's becoming increasingly crucial for bloggers – email marketing. Cassie Noyes, who spearheads the email solutions team at Raptive, joins me to unravel why email is not just a tool but a vital asset in building a loyal audience and boosting ad revenue. Show Notes: MiloTreeCart Book a FREE 20-minute strategy call with me Raptive MiloTree Pop-Up App Join My Blogger Genius Email List Become a Blogger Genius Facebook Group All Blogger Genius Podcast Episodes Subscribe to the Blogger Genius Podcast: iTunes YouTube Spotify The Journey to Email Expertise Cassie's journey into the world of email marketing began in the realm of traditional print magazine publishing, where she honed her skills in audience development. At Raptive, she now dedicates her expertise to helping creators grow their subscriber lists and engage their audience effectively, ensuring higher open and click rates, and ultimately, driving more views and engagement to their sites. Why Email Matters More Than Ever With the impending demise of cookies and the evolution of AI in search, owning your audience has never been more important. Cassie explains that while SEO remains a key driver of traffic, having a direct relationship with your audience through email can make you a go-to brand, encouraging direct site visits over incidental search engine discoveries. The Identity Factor in Email Marketing The shift away from cookies means advertisers are on the lookout for more reliable ways to identify and target audiences. Here's where your email list comes into play. Each time a subscriber visits your site, their identity can be captured, allowing advertisers to pay more for those visits. This direct identification translates into higher ad revenue for you as a publisher. Best Practices for Engaging Your Audience Cassie shares that the content of your emails should be actionable and immediately useful to your audience. Think recipes or tips that they can apply right away. A welcome series can be a powerful tool to introduce new subscribers to the breadth of your content. Monetizing Through Email Incorporating affiliate links or product recommendations in your emails can be a subtle yet effective way to monetize. The key is to ensure these inclusions add value to your subscribers' experience rather than feeling intrusive. The Art of the Newsletter Consistency is king when it comes to newsletters. Cassie recommends a regular cadence, ideally more than once a week, to keep your audience engaged. Keep your emails concise, visually appealing, and easy to navigate, with buttons for links and a moderate use of photos and emojis to draw the eye. Crafting Compelling Subject Lines Your subject line is your first impression. It should evoke emotion and curiosity while hinting at the content inside. A/B testing is your friend here, helping you discover what resonates best with your audience and improving open rates. Maintaining a Healthy Email List Periodically cleaning your email list is essential for maintaining its health. Re-engagement campaigns can help identify inactive subscribers, and if they remain unresponsive, it may be time to let them go. Embracing AI in Email Marketing Cassie sees AI as a promising tool for content creation and brainstorming, offering efficiency and a boost to creativity. However, it's important to balance AI use with a personal touch to ensure your emails remain authentic and engaging. Final Thoughts Email marketing is not just a strategy; it's a relationship-building journey with your audience. By leveraging the insights shared by Cassie Noyes, you can transform your email list into a thriving community and a profitable aspect of your business. Remember, the power of email lies in the personal connection you forge with each subscriber, turning them from casual readers into loyal fans and customers. Other Related Blogger Genius Podcast episodes You'll Enjoy: What's Next for Food Bloggers: Changes in 2024 with Megan Porta New Ways to Grow Your Blog Income in 2024 with Amy Reinecke and Jennifer Draper 299: Skyrocket Your Income: The Blogger's Guide to Cutting-Edge Email Marketing MiloTreeCart, the Best Tool for Non-Techies to Sell Digital Products I also want to introduce you to the MiloTreeCart, a tool designed for non-techies to sell digital products easily. It comes with features like fill-in-the-blank sales pages, check-out pages, a sales dashboard, upsells, and customer support. MiloTreeCart is currently available for a lifetime deal of $349 or three easy installments of $116.33.
Welcome back to another episode of the Niche Pursuits News Podcast with Spencer and co-host Jared Bauman, of 201 Creative. This week they talk about the latest problems for Google, their side hustles, and some very strange niche sites. You won't want to miss this one! They kick off this episode by talking about how Google employees recently expressed their dissatisfaction with search results after the Reddit blackout. In response, Google CEO Sundar Pichai acknowledged the issue and introduced a new feature called "perspectives" to address it, a move that shows that Google is trying to balance AI-generated content with human perspectives. Jared and Spencer discussed how bloggers who provide unique human perspectives and hands-on experiences can benefit from this change, highlighting the importance of honesty, expertise, and authenticity in search results. Spencer also shared his thoughts about Google's plans with its search generative experience, as it's clear that people want well-researched human reviews in the search results. Also, the fact that the Reddit debacle has got Google's attention is great news for content creators and bloggers. Jared and Spencer then talked about more bad news for Google. Google is getting in hot water on YouTube and across the web as they haven't been complying with the agreed characteristics of the ads they display on websites. This is relevant for content creators and niche site owners as they often have ads displayed through Ezoic, Mediavine, or AdThrive. Tons of companies, large and small, have been paying for video ads and Google has been charging them but hasn't been complying with the agreed characteristics of the ads and hasn't been transparent or accurate in how the videos are being displayed. The big question that Spencer and Jared ask is how this affects us as website owners and content creators. Listen in to hear more about their thoughts on this topic. Then Spencer shared some reviews of the podcast on Apple Podcasts Reviews and asks people to leave a review and he will read your name and website on their next podcast episode. In the Shiny Object Syndrome portion of the podcast, Spencer begins by talking about his new WordPress plugin, Rank Logic, which is now available. He talks about the challenges behind creating a plugin and preparing for the launch. Rank Logic offers users a better way to track their SEO performance. Jared talked about his side hustle using the Amazon Influencer Program, of which he has officially been a member for 30 days. He was happy to report that he broke the $1000 mark in his first month, a trend that will likely continue even if he doesn't keep uploading videos. He also talks about his daily earnings and the possibilities of growing his income even further. In the Weird Niche Site portion, Jared goes first and talks about Hire Goats, a site that lets you rent goats and have them come and manicure your property. The site was created in 2017 and has a DR of 26 although it's only ranking for 260 keywords. The 7-page site does, however, rank number one for all keywords related to renting goats, and although it's a very glitchy experience and it's a directory website, it's very possible that they're earning some money from it. When the hosts click around, they see that the goat landscaping website links to HireSheep.com. It's a whole world of possibilities! Then Spencer talks about his weird niche site, Random Word Generator which, as the name suggests, lets you generate random words, numbers, and phrases with certain characteristics. It's monetized with ads and gets 1.3 million organic visitors per month from Google and potentially 3 of 4 million visitors per month in total. It has a DR of 72 and has really capitalized on all kinds of random generators, from dinner ideas to Bible verses, and could be earning at least $50k per month. As Jared and Spencer dig a little deeper, it looks like the creator has a whole network of successful sites. This conversation and Spencer and Jared's ideas are sure to get the creative juices flowing, so don't miss this episode! Be sure to get more content like this in the Niche Pursuits Newsletter Right Here: https://www.nichepursuits.com/newsletter Want a Faster and Easier Way to Build Internal Links? Get $15 off Link Whisper with Discount Code "Podcast" on the Checkout Screen: https://www.nichepursuits.com/linkwhisper
In this episode, I had the pleasure of interviewing John Clyman, the Executive VP of Engineering at Raptive (formerly known as AdThrive). We had a fascinating conversation about the impact of AI on blogging, traffic, and ad revenue. We delved into the potential benefits and risks of AI, and how it can help bloggers create better content and reach a wider audience. However, we also discussed the importance of building trust with readers and diversifying revenue streams beyond ads. As bloggers, it's crucial to stay informed and adaptable in the face of technological changes, while also staying true to our brands and expertise. Overall, this episode provides valuable insights for anyone interested in the future of online content creation. So, tune in and join me for an enlightening conversation! Show Notes: MiloTreeCart How to Write an Ebook Using ChatGPT Ebook Raptive Catch My Party MiloTree Pop-Up App Become a Blogger Genius Facebook Group Join My Blogger Genius Email List All Blogger Genius Podcast Episodes Subscribe to the Blogger Genius Podcast: iTunes Stitcher YouTube Spotify Other Blogger Genius Podcast Episodes You'll Like: Starting a Paid Membership is Easier than You Think: Step-by-Step Guide – Solo Episode with Jillian Leslie The Wild West of AI in Affiliate Marketing with Jeannine Crooks AI-Driven Content and the Future of SEO with Steve Wiideman Imagine a World Where You Could Sell Digital Products and Tap into a New Income Stream with Ease… If you are interested in selling paid workshops, digital downloads, memberships, subscriptions, or coaching in under 10 minutes, sign up for MiloTreeCart. MiloTreeCart is the perfect payment tool for creators who hate technology. No coding, design, or website needed. If you're a female creator, this is for you! You get fill-in-the-blank sales pages, checkout pages, and payment collection, plus, a dashboard to manage your sales. Also, MiloTreeCart integrates with all major email service providers. Start your 7-day free trial now! Find out more about MiloTreeCart here!
Navigating the changing landscape of video advertising, adapting to a future with AI, and understanding the removal of third-party cookies with Paul Bannister ----- Welcome to episode 410 of The Food Blogger Pro Podcast! This week on the podcast, Bjork interviews Paul Bannister from Raptive. AI, Third-Party Cookies, and Changes in Video Advertising Standards If it feels like the last few years have come with a lot of changes in the online world, that's because there have been tons of changes. We're talking ChatGPT and AI, the removal of third-party cookies, the rapid growth of video, and more. Luckily, our guest on the podcast today is just the person to break down these big changes and explain how it all relates to content creators. Bjork is chatting with Paul Bannister, the CSO and co-founder of Raptive (formerly AdThrive and CafeMedia) about all of these buzzy topics. Whether you're hoping to qualify for Raptive in the future, are already a Raptive creator, or are just curious about all of the tech news in the online space, this is a really informative listen! In this episode, you'll learn: More about the beginning of Paul's career founding Online Gaming Review in 1995. How he approaches big changes in the online space. What third-party cookies are, how they relate to digital advertising, and what you need to know about the removal of third-party cookies from Google. What's next for advertisers after the removal of third-party cookies. How ChatGPT and AI are changing the world of content creation. How the transition from UA to GA4 will change Raptive's eligibility criteria. About why he believes “video is the future” and how the advertising space is changing to reflect that. The difference between in-stream, out-stream, and accompanying content video ads. More about the new standards for video advertising. How Raptive is evolving to help content creators diversify their income streams. Resources: Paul's previous episodes on The Food Blogger Pro Podcast here and here Raptive formerly known as AdThrive and CafeMedia Dotdash Meredith ChatGPT Pinch of Yum's 20 Minute Healthy Chicken Parmesan Bard Nothing Gold Can Stay by Robert Frost Raptive's Eligibility Criteria 363: What Bloggers Need to Know About Google Analytics 4 with Alison Bechdol Google Analytics Course on Food Blogger Pro IAB Tech Lab Raptive Blog Follow Paul on Twitter Join the Food Blogger Pro Podcast Facebook Group ----- This episode is sponsored by Duett. Learn how the Duet team can leverage your email list for ever more site traffic at duett.co/foodbloggerpro. If you have any comments, questions, or suggestions for interviews, be sure to email them to podcast@foodbloggerpro.com. Learn more about joining the Food Blogger Pro community at foodbloggerpro.com/membership
More good news from Google. They've announced they'll be removing the Page Experience report and mobile-friendly test from Search Console in the coming months. So how will this affect you and what workarounds can you use instead? We've got you covered! In today's episode of Niche Pursuits News, Spencer and Jared dive into all sorts of important developments in the world of online business and niche sites. The guys discuss the recent Google algorithm update - which has impacted an estimated 40% of sites, including some non-review pages. And of course, they delve into Google's decision to replace the page experience report and mobile-friendly test with a more holistic approach. You'll get some help on how to optimize your site for a great page experience, unraveling the confusion surrounding core web vitals, general page experience, Google Page, and speed insights. Including some important pointers on which alternative tools can help with website audits. Also important to site owners, AdThrive has rebranded as Raptive, shifting its focus to enterprise customers and possibly expanding into an influencer network. Learn how this company has evolved over the years, from CafeMedia's acquisition in 2016 to being acquired by private equity firm ZMC in 2018, and how it strives to meet the needs of creators and enterprise publishers. Spencer also shares his experience running the Boston Marathon, and why it's the most prestigious marathon in the US. We also get a sneak peek into their exciting new projects. Spencer shares an update on his faceless YouTube channel's monetization journey, while Jared discusses his newsletter. Finally, we learn all about two unique niche sites: cockroachfacts.com and marathoninvestigation.com. The former is a surprisingly well-developed site with a range of content on cockroaches, while the latter investigates and exposes marathon cheaters. Overall, it's another great episode, full of insights and pointers to help you stay on top of things and make the most of your marketing efforts. This Episode is Sponsored by https://search-intelligence.co.uk/ Be sure to get more content like this in the Niche Pursuits Newsletter Right Here: https://www.nichepursuits.com/newsletter Want a Faster and Easier Way to Build Internal Links? Get $15 off Link Whisper with Discount Code "Podcast" on the Checkout Screen: https://www.nichepursuits.com/linkwhisper
Not getting enough RPM from your blog? It's time to spice up your content creation and learn your way of partnering with ad networks so you can increase your site's RPM. In this insightful episode, I'm honoured to speak with Paul Bannister who is the Chief Strategy Officer at Ad Thrive. In his role, he leads the programmatic sales and video monetization teams that create compelling media experiences that connect the world's largest brands with the company's nearly 4,000 independent publishers. He serves on the board of the IAB Tech Lab and is actively involved in the W3C and Prebid communities that are driving the future of advertising. We have discussed valuable topics such as how to become an attractive publisher to advertise on and be a publisher that bigger media buyers and Ad networks WANT to partner with? What that entails, the steps you can take with your content, with your brand, and with your audience? How to increase your RPM once you have partnered with an ad network? We also dived into third-party cookies (what are they, what do they mean for bloggers, and how do they work)? What happens when those third-party cookies were removed and ended? What does that mean for us website owners and how do we make money? Lastly, Paul spilled the beans on the solutions and alternatives for us and ad networks so we don't go out of business. If you want to increase your blog's RPM, explore the ways in this episode now! Episode Highlights 03:37 Is CafeMedia & AdThrive the same? 07:07 Paul's journey in selling a website in the ‘90s 09:31 How do bloggers attract Ad networks to partner with them? 11:35 How to get more engagement out of the content that you create? 18:55 What do top sites have in common? 22:19 How does AdThrive increase a site's RPM? 29:03 Third-Party Cookies: What is it? How does it work? What happens when these are removed? 44:47 Where can you find Paul? About The Guest Paul Bannister is the Chief Strategy Officer at Ad Thrive. In his role, he leads the programmatic sales and video monetization teams that create compelling media experiences that connect the world's largest brands with the company's nearly 4,000 independent publishers. Before joining AdThrive, he founded Online Gaming Review, one of the first websites dedicated to computer games, authored two books on computer games, and held roles at USWeb/CKS, Ameritrade, and CMP Media. He serves on the board of the IAB Tech Lab and is actively involved in the W3C and Prebid communities that are driving the future of advertising. Resource Links ➥ Buying Online Businesses Website (https://buyingonlinebusinesses.com) ➥ Download the Due Diligence Framework (https://buyingonlinebusinesses.com/freeresources/) ➥ Visit Niche Website Builders and get EXCLUSIVE OFFERS here as a BOB listener (https://bit.ly/3BusZE3) Connect with Paul Bannister: ➥ https://adthrive.com/ ➥ www.cafemedia.com ➥ https://twitter.com/CafeMedia_ ➥ https://www.linkedin.com/company/cafemedia/ See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Becoming a full-time content creator, growing a YouTube channel, and repurposing content across different platforms with Caitlin Shoemaker from From My Bowl. ----- Welcome to episode 370 of The Food Blogger Pro Podcast! This week on the podcast, Bjork interviews Caitlin Shoemaker about how she became a full-time food creator and grew her YouTube channel. 778K YouTube Subscribers YouTube is a great place to share your food videos, and there's undoubtedly a lot of opportunity on the platform for food creators. And it's what we're focusing on in today's episode with Caitlin! In this interview, she shares how she grew her YouTube channel to over 778k subscribers. You'll hear how she got comfortable being on camera, how she earns money sharing videos on YouTube, what her current video strategy looks like, and more. If you want to start creating YouTube videos, or maybe you already post on YouTube and want to take your channel to the next level, we think you'll have a lot of takeaways from this conversation. Enjoy! In this episode, you'll learn: How Caitlin started sharing food content online Why she decided to launch her food blog How she became a full-time content creator What her different revenue streams look like How she got more comfortable being on camera How you can earn money sharing videos on YouTube How she repurposes content across different social media platforms What her YouTube content strategy looks like What equipment she uses to film her videos What tasks she outsources for her business Resources: From My Bowl Caitlin's YouTube channel AdThrive 365: How to Find Your Zone of Genius and Hire the Right People with Emily Perron YouTube Partner Program Overview & Eligibility Canon 5D Mark III Canon 70D The Bite Shot Follow Caitlin on Instagram, Facebook, and Pinterest Join the Food Blogger Pro Podcast Facebook Group If you have any comments, questions, or suggestions for interviews, be sure to email them to podcast@foodbloggerpro.com. Learn more about joining the Food Blogger Pro community at foodbloggerpro.com/membership
When I started blogging, and told people about it, I heard a lot of, “Yeah, but how do you actually make money with a blog?” At the time, I will admit, I had no idea. But I knew it was possible, so I kept going. Even a couple years later when I was featured in a CNBC article on people making 5 figures through their side hustles, my dad called me up, completely befuddled. “You make $10,000 from that blog of yours?” he asked. When I told him it was actually more than that, I'm pretty sure I heard him fall off his chair. Over the years I've heard the same thing over and over. Most people know that bloggers make money, but very few know how. In truth, bloggers can make money in a number of different ways. That's one of the things that make it such an amazing side hustle. There's something for everyone. And you can mix and match, which is where the magic really happens. They say the average millionaire has a minimum of 7 streams of income. That means their money is coming from at least 7 different sources, so they're not completely dependent on any single one. Blogging allows for 5 basic streams of income, and you can even create separate streams within the streams… it's pretty awesome. So, let's dig in to the 5 primary ways bloggers make money. Ads You probably saw this one coming, right? We've all been to blogs that have ads on them, and we've all realized that they're not just putting ads on their blog out of the goodness of their hearts. While ads might not be the most lucrative income stream, especially at the beginning, it's a start and it's passive. That means you don't have to do anything beyond putting some code on your site, sitting back, and collecting the checks. There are 3 methods of using ads to earn: Public Ad Networks like Google AdSense or Media.net are open to just about anyone with a website. They have the lowest payout, but you can get started right away. (This is how I made my first $2.11.) Private Ad Networks like MediaVine, AdThrive, or Monumetric are available to more established bloggers. They have minimum standards for page views, sessions, etc. before you can apply, but once accepted, they pay much better than public networks. (Before I sold my blog, I was making $500-1,500 a month through ads with MediaVine.) Direct Ad Sales includes any ads that you sell yourself. For example, a local mom blogger may sell ad space to a local indoor play space for $X and X days. This is the least passive way to run ads, but it can pay off big time. Sponsored Content Sponsored content is using the blog posts you write to promote a specific product or service. For example, a food blogger creates a recipe with a specific ingredient, or a person who writes about car maintenance shares their weekly cleaning routine in which they use a particular product. In both cases, the blogger would be compensated by the featured product's company. When considering sponsored content you can join a program like Tap Influence or Izea to find businesses that are looking to partner with influencers (that's you!). Or you can reach out to the brands you want to work with directly and pitch them your idea. Sponsored posts can pay anywhere from $50 to thousands of dollars, depending on your experience and blog reach. Another pay booster could be if you've cornered a highly niched market, like Canadian fly fishermen. Of course, I would be remiss if I failed to mention 3 quick things: Always, ALWAYS disclose that a post is sponsored. It's federal law. Limit your sponsored posts to about 20-25% of your content so your blog doesn't become one giant advertorial. The number one rule of blogging still applies to sponsored posts: Value first. Affiliate Marketing Before you have products or services of your own to sell (and after, too), there's affiliate marketing. If you've ever recommended a product or service to a friend, you understand the basics of affiliate marketing. The difference is that with affiliate marketing, you not only recommend products and services you love and trust, but you also get a commission when someone buys via your referral. Links to products or services you recommend can be peppered throughout your content, across social media, and in the emails you send your list. Alternatively, you can create a full-scale marketing campaign for someone else's product or service, complete with a blog post, email sequence, social media posts, and unique-to-you bonuses that people get if they purchase through your link. An example of this would be a DIY blogger sharing a how-to blog post with links inside to specific tools or materials she used. Another would be a homesteading blogger partnering with a cheesemaking blogger to promote each other's courses. They would coordinate launches, agree to a specific number of blog posts, emails, etc. and share each other's courses as if they were their own. As with sponsored posts, you must disclose affiliate links, and follow the number one rule, value first. Selling Products Your blog is also a terrific way to sell products of your own, both digital and physical. I won't go into the full list of things you can sell, but here are the most popular 4 categories: Digital Products are anything that can be sold, delivered, and used completely on the computer. This category includes things like e-books, printables, and courses. Direct Sales Products are one of the most popular ways to sell products through a blog. These are products provided by a third-party company, like Mary Kay or Pampered Chef, but credited to you. White Label Products are items produced in bulk (usually in China) that you can customize with your branding and sell under your own label. This is also sometimes called dropshipping and is typically managed through a third-party site like Amazon. Print-on Demand Products are products that you design digitally, but they aren't actually made until someone orders them. It includes branded merchandise, t-shirts, mugs, journals, paperback books, etc. This is managed through a third-party company like Printful and/or Amazon. You are not required to disclose anything about items you're selling for yourself, but like all other methods of selling, don't go overboard promoting your products and remember value first. Selling Your Services A service is anything you do for your clients. It could be an in-person service, like a handyman, or online, like a virtual assistant. Services are quite possibly the easiest way to start making money through your blog because you don't have to do anything up front. Just include a note with each post that says, “Hey I offer this service. Click here to sign up.” You can offer services that match your skill set and your personality. For example, some services require a lot of face-to-face interaction (in person or online), while others can be completely on your own with little to no interaction with people. So if you're killer with a spreadsheet and a hard-core introvert, you can offer bookkeeping services with quarterly update meetings. If you're great at organizing, you can serve as an online business manager (OBM) who's the point person for a business owner's contractors. The fact is that there's essentially no limit to how you can make money as a blogger. Be creative! Similarly, there's virtually no limit to how much you could make if you use multiple methods of earning. Of course there needs to be a balance between providing value without making any offers and selling, but it's completely feasible to use all of these income streams on a single blog. So next time someone questions why you'd want to start a blog to make money… you've got 5 great answers. In Teacher Blog Academy we go into more depth on each of these income streams in Module 4: Earn. If you want to build a profitable blog in less time, with less frustration, Teacher Blog Academy is opening in just 4 days! Learn more and get on the waitlist at teacherblogacademy.com.
Focusing on quality content, optimizing your ad revenue, and understanding how the cookieless future will affect ad networks and publishers with Paul Bannister and Courtney Kahn from AdThrive. ----- Welcome to episode 352 of The Food Blogger Pro Podcast! This week on the podcast, Bjork interviews Paul Bannister and Courtney Kahn from AdThrive about optimizing ad revenue. How to Optimize Your Ad Revenue Today, we're really excited to be chatting about all things advertising with two members of the AdThrive team, Paul Bannister and Courtney Kahn! Ads are one of the best ways to earn passive income from a blog, so it's not surprising that many food bloggers place a lot of emphasis on increasing their ad revenue. And in this episode, Paul and Courtney are sharing all their expert advice on just that topic: how to optimize your ads and increase your earnings. You'll also hear what changes will be coming soon to the ad industry, how the ad industry works behind the scenes, and more. In this episode, you'll learn: How Google is planning to phase out third-party cookies on Chrome How the cookieless future will affect ad networks and publishers Why quality content and engagement is so important How to create the optimal ad experience on your site How to increase your ad revenue Why advertisers have started focusing more on video Why you should set up a video sitemap How programmatic advertising works What's coming next for the ad industry Why it's so important to diversify your revenue streams Resources: AdThrive AdThrive Blog What Your Favorite Sad Dad Band Says About You Ira Glass quote Pinch of Yum January Meal Planning Bootcamp Frederick Buechner quote Follow AdThrive on Instagram, Facebook, and Twitter Register for the Keyword Research Live Q&A Join the Food Blogger Pro Podcast Facebook Group Check out the Food Blogger Pro YouTube channel (and subscribe while you're there!) If you have any comments, questions, or suggestions for interviews, be sure to email them to podcast@foodbloggerpro.com. Learn more about joining the Food Blogger Pro community at foodbloggerpro.com/membership
Have you been trying to maximize your ad earnings on your website but are unsure where to start? Aditya Gorti from AdThrive shares five tips you can employ to make more money with ads on your website. He will share which tools are efficient and how to strategically place your ads to increase revenue. LINKS MENTIONED IN THIS EPISODE:AdThriveCloudflareWP RocketGoogle Search ConsoleFULL SHOW NOTES: https://thesmartinfluencer.com/5-things-you-can-do-to-make-more-money-with-ads/TSI Facebook Community: https://www.facebook.com/groups/214681812013517TSI Instagram Community: https://www.instagram.com/thesmartinfluencer/
This episode explains why focusing on bigger sites is better in the beginning and my reason for moving one site and potentially more to Mediavine from AdThrive.
In this episode, Vinnie talks to the seller of a display advertising, Amazon Associates, affiliate, and sponsored posts business created in May 2018 in the apparel & accessories and electronics niches. Listen in to find out how the business makes an average of $18,999 per month in net profit, why the seller has decided to sell, the lessons learned from running the business, and much more. Click here to learn more about listing #54409 or visit our marketplace to find more listings like this one.
Earning revenue through display advertising can be a lucrative monetization option for food bloggers. Megan Tenney from AdThrive talks directly to food bloggers who aim to earn money in this way. Listen in for some great tips! - WHY you should consider running ads, even if you’re earning revenue through other means - Benefits of partnering with an ad management company - Minimum requirements for application approval - Tips for getting your page views up so this can be a revenue option for you
Ad revenue in Q4, common traits of top ad revenue-earning sites, and balancing ad revenue and user experience with AdThrive. ----- Welcome to episode 275 of The Food Blogger Pro Podcast! This week on the podcast, Bjork interviews Paul Bannister and Becca Clark from AdThrive about how ad revenue works and how food bloggers can increase the income they get from ads. Optimizing Ads Let’s talk about ads. They’re a simple way to make some money from your site (essentially, the more traffic you have, the more ad revenue you can potentially make), and there are many different strategies to help you optimize your ad revenue out there. But ad placement and revenue is an art and a science. Paul and Becca from AdThrive are here on the podcast to talk about how ads work and how food bloggers can optimize the ads they run on their sites. It’s an interesting conversation in how ads operate behind-the-scenes, as well as how incredible content is essentially the ultimate driver of ad revenue. In this episode, you’ll learn: What they do at AdThrive Common traits of top ad revenue-earning sites How to evaluate ad managers How to optimize your ad income What a Google Certified Publisher is What viewable ads and sticky ads are How recipe ads work How to balance ad revenue and user experience How to optimize ads for Q4 How the food industry is trending Resources: AdThrive WP Recipe Maker Tasty Recipes If you have any comments, questions, or suggestions for interviews, be sure to email them to podcast@foodbloggerpro.com. Learn more about joining the Food Blogger Pro community at foodbloggerpro.com/membership
Did you know that more large sites (over 1,000,000 pageviews a month) use Ezoic when compared to Mediavine or Adthrive? Tyler Bishop is the chief marketing officer for Ezoic and during this interview we discuss how Tyler got involved in Ezoic and what the company does. We also dive into some of the common misconceptions about Ezoic; such as how it compares to Mediavine and Adthrive (or other ad shops). Does Ezoic slow down your site? You might be surprised at Tyler's answer. How does artificial intelligence play a role in Ezoic display ads? If all ad shops (like Mediavine and Adthrive) get ads from the same place (primarily from Google ad exchange), why would someone choose one platform over another?
If you want to know how to successfully sell your products online, you are in for a treat. I'm interviewing my friend, Monica Froese, from Redefining Mom, on how to know what products to sell, how to find product opportunities, how to build highly converting sales funnels, and how to provide wins for your customers so they keep coming back. We do a deep dive into the strategies and frameworks you need to know to build compelling products for your audience and market them successfully so they happily buy. Show Notes MiloTree Pop-Up App MiloTree Membership Group Redefining Mom Catch My Party Host 0:04 Welcome to the Blogger Genius Podcast brought to you by MiloTree. Here's your host, Jillian Leslie. Jillian Leslie 0:11 Hello, everyone. Welcome back to The Blogger Genius. Looking for tech support, teaching, and community? Join our MiloTree Membership Group Before I get started, I want to announce that we have a program called the MiloTree Membership Group. We were listening to what you guys were telling us in terms of feedback. And one thing that you kept saying is getting tech support is difficult as a blogger. Bloggers have to wear so many hats. So the idea that you have to dig in and deal with all of the back end technology related to your blog can be difficult. Also, we've heard that you want ongoing teaching sessions and workshops, like in the podcast, and third, you're looking for a community of like-minded bloggers and entrepreneurs. So within the MiloTree Membership Group, we offer tech support. We offer workshops, and we offer community. It's all of that rolled into one. We're very excited about it. It's like having a whole support system behind you. So if you want to learn more head to milotree.com/membership. It's a monthly membership, but you can cancel at any time. We, as you can tell, are really committed to helping you succeed. For today's episode, I have my friend Monica Froese back on the show. What we are talking about is business building. And we are talking about how to think about your blog as a business, how to roll up your sleeves and really get to know your audience, how to solve problems for your audience, an dhow to sell to your audience. We give you the whole framework in this podcast episode. And I love Monica because she is so straight. And her advice is so clear. I think you are really going to get a ton out of this interview. So without further delay, here is my interview with my friend Monica Froese from Redefining Mom. Monica, welcome to the show. Monica Froese 2:51 Thank you so much for having me again. And I was just saying to you that your episodes are some of my most popular so I was very excited to get you back. Monica Froese 2:51 I think we've recorded some really good ones like the first one was right after I had the baby, which I still think is one of my favorite because it's a it's like a snapshot in time. I get to listen to how I was feeling in that postpartum period. Jillian Leslie 3:03 Yes. And I think that you were so authentic and honest about the struggles. Yeah. And I found that. Yeah, but I think that there was something. I think other people could see themselves in that struggle to go. Yeah, that explains all those feelings that I'm having. Monica Froese 3:19 Yeah, for real and that and I've gotten emails with people who told me that that really helped them. So I appreciate you having me on so that I can share that kind of stuff with people. How to Build Online Products Jillian Leslie 3:28 Absolutely. So what I wanted to talk about with you today is products. You've built your business— you tell me if this is true—by serving needs, finding needs, serving those needs to your audience. And we talked about this before, which is when you started Redefining Mom, you were a variety of different things. And I think that you've been able to potentially find your sweet spot. Monica Froese 3:58 Yes, even a lot has changed since the last time we talked in terms of my product strategy. So when Redefining Mom started in 2013, there were no products because I was working full-time corporate, didn't have time for that. When I decided to start taking it seriously, I knew that I really wanted to do products, but I needed somewhere to start. So I had this brand Redefining Mom, which is for working moms. Now it was for corporate working moms and like time management for corporate working moms, and we've morphed into helping moms balance running a business and motherhood. So it's taking them out of corporate and moving them into like the entrepreneurial space, but we still cater to the mom needs and the business needs. But what has happened is so when I got started with Redefining Mom and creating products, it was very much geared towards the stuff that moms needed to address. And I started with a product. The Importance of Experimentation in Building Products online Jillian Leslie 5:02 You started with like a Google Sheet or a spreadsheet or something for yourself. Monica Froese 5:07 still one of my best selling products. Yeah. So I basically when I in 2016, I remember this, it was June of 2016. And I wanted to accelerate the process of leaving my corporate job. And I wanted the quickest win I could get. And my husband actually said to me, because we had this really awesome family budget spreadsheet that we had developed while we were in corporate, to manage our finances, we got out of $65,000 in debt doing it or using it. And he's like, moms need this. Why don't you just throw this up as your product and see how it goes? Well, it ended up going very well. Which was like my first sign of understanding what people need and then how to fill that gap. Jillian Leslie 5:55 So it was like a light bulb moment. Monica Froese 5:57 It was a light bulb moment and I would say it took a few months for the light bulb moment because I, I didn't really know what I was looking at, like, why are all these people buying this stuff and or buying the spreadsheet and I had to like back into it. So it took a few months to try to dissect what was going on. Like, why was this such a big hit? And, you know, part of it was the uniqueness of Pinterest at the time, and still the uniqueness of Pinterest, which we can talk about. But at the time in 2016, you could get a lot of organic traffic pretty fast, like you could rank under keywords pretty fast in 2016. And this happened to take off for me. And now you can still rank but it's a little bit different. Creating a Product for Pinterest by Using Pinterest And I've I look at creating products for Pinterest a little bit differently than I used to, which I know you're probably gonna talk about, but what happened after the budget spreadsheet was I started creating more products for moms. Specifically, I had a course which I've since retired, which was to help moms take their corporate skills and repurpose them into the online world. But what happened was I ended up getting really good at Pinterest ads because I'm impatient. And I got to the point where I was sick of waiting for organic traffic to come to me. I really wanted to have more metrics that I could look at. I love looking at data, you only have so many metrics that you can go off of like you can't see specifically what keywords are getting you traffic clicks, conversions, but promoted pins would tell me that. So I got really good at that. And of course, as soon as you get good at something that nobody else is doing, everybody wants to know how you did that. And so teaching Promoted Pins took on this life of its own. I developed the Promoted Pins course right before I had the baby at the end of 2017. And I would say for all of 2018 and all of 2019, it was all about refining that course like I put all of my energy into making this the best Pinterest ads course that it could be. There's no recurring fee to be in my student group. And so like people who bought the course two years ago are still getting support. I do monthly office hours. And so I really became known as the Pinterest ads girl. But there was a part of me that still felt this pull to help moms and create products that I knew would help them. And for reasons that they were coming to Redefining Moms so we made the decision, which we hope to finish this year, which is to break off all of the Pinterest products under my own brand. Creating Products for Women Balancing Careers and Motherhood So just MonicaFroese.com and bring Redefining Mom back to what it was originally intended to do, which was to help moms, particularly with balancing motherhood and their careers, specifically bringing them from their corporate career into the online world. So this really has created this opportunity to create two distinct products sets for two different audiences. Jillian Leslie 9:00 That's terrific. Again, we have Catch My Party we have MiloTree. They don't look at all alike, but one came out of the other one. And one is a SaaS business, which means software-as-a-service and one is a B2C business which is, you know, consumer-facing. And most people have no idea I'm the person behind both, you know, there is some crossover, but not a lot. But again, it was organically how we grew our business. Right? Nobody said, you know, you didn't start off and go, I'm going to become Pinterest expert. You started using it. It started working for you. And you thought I can teach this. Monica Froese 9:37 And I really feel like now that I'm a few, like four years into really taking this as a serious full time business. My corporate skills were invaluable to me for where I ended up here because I looked at Pinterest differently. All the people who are teaching Pinterest back in 2016 were not looking at it in the same way. All I care about is ROI and what I'm getting from it. So, like I got very hyper hung up on the fact that everyone was talking about all the pageviews they could get from Pinterest. And I just was sitting there scratching my head thinking, why do I want a pageview? I don't like what comes after the page view and see, you know, sale. Yep. And that's the thing, like, you know, a lot of bloggers at the time and still, are monetizing through ads and sponsorships and stuff. But you don't have as much control over that. And I couldn't get, I could not get away from, why am I going to spend all of this time getting traffic to my site for them to click away from my site. It just never resonated with me. And when I put into place the principles that I executed in corporate, which was like the ROI principles that I was accountable for when I ran large marketing campaigns. It just seemed logical to me that paid advertising was the way to go, and the most targeted way to go. And that's kind of how it ended up happening. And honestly, I don't regret it at all. Because while I still have this pull, I want to help women get out of corporate into this world and repurpose their skills. I couldn't have funded that part of the business if I hadn't gotten to be known for something. And if that happened to be Pinterest ads, that's great. And that has served me too. So it's been an interesting ride, to be honest with you. I couldn't have predicted it a couple of years ago. How to Create Emergent Online Products Jillian Leslie 11:30 There is this concept that I think about a lot. I talk about it a lot, and it's called emergent business building. And what that means is bottom up, not top down. So top down would be, I have this hypothesis, and I'm going to go toward it and not be open to what my audience is saying to me. What people are coming to me, for that kind of thing. And, again, I have used this example I live in Austin. An Austin is all about emergent development, meaning it's the antithesis of the planned community. You go down some street and like there's a shopping mall, and it looks like it's out of the 70s. But there'll be one cool coffee shop in there. And then all of a sudden, you notice, like, there's the record store, or there's something else is coming, like right next to it. And it's because all of a sudden people are discovering this. And then other businesses are drawn to those businesses. So it looks really messy. Yes, but it's emergent. And I believe when you are building businesses on the internet, that is definitely the way to go. Because if you think you're going to plan this out, that it's going to work the way you think it's going to work, I think you are setting yourself up for a world of hurt. Should you Niche Your Blog Down? Monica Froese 12:53 I completely agree. And actually, because I originated in the blog world, I hear a lot of conflicting advice about you have to niche down right away, or it's okay to go broader and then niche down and I am all for the broader first to see what resonates. If you think about it, I had no business putting any budgeting stuff on Redefining Mom, it wasn't the purpose of the site. But I did it anyways, and it ended up being a huge smash hit, which has made me a ton of money. And I wouldn't have done it if all I listened to were the people who told me you have to niche down, you have to niche down, you have to niche down. I'm to the point where I firmly believe if you know how to drive targeted traffic, then you can really have a funnel about anything as long as you're, I mean, don't be a fraud, like be able to give the advice that you're saying that you can give, like for me with the budgeting spreadsheet. I literally had at that point used it for five years. We did use it to pay down $65,000 a debt. It's the only thing that saved us from literally going completely broke when we had our daughter because we were paid on commission, and it was how we estimated out, like the highs and lows if we hit commission if we didn't, how we, you know, literally could pay our bills. And because I used it, I was able to authentically speak about it and the tools that we use every day. Like, I would have sat back in 2016 and said, doesn't everyone have a budget spreadsheet? And my husband said to me, he's like, No, your father is a CPA, and drilled this into your head. Ordinary people don't actually do this all that often. And I was like, Really? Jillian Leslie 14:34 I know. Yes. Yes, yes. So we call them "at bats," which are, how many times are you at bat? And the goal is to increase the number of experiments that you are running, because you don't necessarily know what's going to hit, and you think you have a hypothesis, but I can't tell you how many times we've been wrong, or it's morphed into something. We could never anticipate it. And that is always the surprise. You are trying to attract the audience that you think is the right audience, but you have to be open to I always say like, hold your hypotheses, have them, but hold them lightly. Because you can get blinded thinking, Oh, no, you're the wrong audience for me. So I'm going to kind of push you aside trying to attract the quote-unquote, right audience, when you need to recognize No, no, this is the right audience. They just look different than I thought they were gonna look. How to Attract an Audience on the Internet Monica Froese 15:34 So I get asked all the time, because I bring on thousands of people through my budgeting stuff onto my list, which my email list is integrated with these both sides of the business, and I've gone back and forth about are we gonna divide out the email list or are we not at this point. I don't think I will. Because the thing is, if people are interested in saving money, they're also interested in making money and because my brand attracts, primarily moms. My messaging is actually very on point if they came in on the budgeting side, or they came in wanting to know more about how to build a business, how to get good at Pinterest, marketing, all of that stuff. I have done a really good job, in my opinion, at least of connecting the two. And the people who don't like the connection, they'll weed themselves out, and I've become okay with that. I just am because I this is how this is what resonates with me. This is how I like teaching. This is how I want to develop my products and so people who aren't okay with that, they'll just believe. Jillian Leslie 16:37 So let's talk about your products. You started with a budgeting spreadsheet, which surprisingly sold really well. And then you figured out Pinterest ads and started teaching people about Pinterest ads. Yes. Now you also then have other products. What are they and how did they emerge? Monica Froese 16:57 Yeah, I have a lot. So they're all digital. I'm actually in a mastermind with two girls who do physical products. And I think that's a lot of work. And I give them so many kudos because obviously we need physical products in the world, but it's a lot more work than digital products. Just there are a lot more intricacies that go into it to make sure it's profitable. So the order of things: I had the budgeting spreadsheet, then I launched the course, which was to help moms in similar positions to me who were in corporate and they're like, I want to have a career. But I also want more time with my kids. How do I make that happen? It's like, No, you are smart, you are smart, and you can take what you've learned in corporate and bring it over to this world. That was the next thing. From there. What ended up happening was because people were saying, How are you getting all of these leads? How are you selling these products, and I was selling them with Pinterest. So it started with a 13 video course that I made for friends because I got asked the same questions of what I did on Pinterest. I gave them I literally gave these 13 videos away just to friends and they're like, you should have people pay you for this. Like this is really good. This is better than other courses I've taken on Pinterest, and I wasn't even trying to make it a course. So then I put it up for sale and that was my original organic marketing course. How to Teach what You Already Know Monica Froese 18:23 This is how it started with me teaching organic Pinterest marketing to people who simply just in conversation, were asking me questions. And then I turned that into a course that I did an actual launch for that in like mid-2017. And that well. At the time, I was also very heavily invested and getting traffic to the mom side of my business with Pinterest using Pinterest ads, I had the budgeting spreadsheet. I have a few other templates, spreadsheets, a planner, stuff like that. And so my blogging friends who took my Pinterest organic course were then like, I want to learn how to do this next level things because it really at that time was definitely next level. I mean, I would argue it's still next level because not a lot of people actually do Pinterest ads still. But it was certainly next level at that point because all anyone talked about was organic. And nobody talked about the power of Pinterest ads. So during my third trimester, they pushed me into launching this course which I was so adamantly against. I didn't want to do it. I just wanted to have this baby. I want to go nesting. I am so thankful to my friends that pushed me to do this because clearly it was a huge gap out there was stuff that people wanted to know, but they didn't know they needed to know. It was like they didn't know they needed it until someone was there presenting it to them. It's kind of what ended up happening. When I was on maternity leave. I was getting very big influencers, like people that I had followed for years, sending me dm saying, Can I get this course? And I was sitting there saying I just had a baby I'm not working because I didn't have help or anything. At this point, so I was like, No, no, I had a baby. I don't have time for this. And my husband tapped me on the shoulder and said, maybe you should take a day and open the cart since these people are begging to give you money and let them in. And I was like, okay, so we did that. And then I came back from maternity leave. And I got really invested in making that course the best it could be, while having this calling to wanting to get back to creating other products that I could put behind funnels because as I was doing the Pinterest ads course, what was the prevailing thing that I kept running into was, when you are ready to run an ad, you need an offer that converts. Like you should not put money behind something that doesn't convert. Overwhelmingly, I was getting people joining my Pinterest ads course that didn't have a converting offer. And that could be converting someone onto your email list, converting someone into a sale. They didn't have an offer. How to Create Sales Funnels that Convert So then they would run an ad, and they'd come to me with data even though I said this is in the course. I don't think it necessarily resonated. They just wanted to get to the running ad part. So they'd run the ad and they come to me with data and they'd say, this didn't work. And I'd say, What is it? What is your objective? And overwhelmingly they'd say, to get traffic? Well, why then my question be like, Why? What is it for? Well, I don't know. Just I have ads on? Jillian Leslie 21:22 And by the way, we talked about this all the time to run an ad to for traffic never make sense. It will never be itself. So if you are thinking that you're going to boost now, if, for example, you're working with a brand, and you do some sort of sponsored content, and you want to show the brand that you've got traffic to make the brand happy because they've paid you a bunch of money for this. It's worth putting some money behind that to go look at my numbers. But if you think you can monetize that traffic, just because you're with AdThrive, or you're with MediaVine, it will never, you'll always be upside down. Always, you'll always be paying more than that traffic is worth to you with ads. Monica Froese 22:11 And if you think about it, you're literally running an ad that you're paying for to send people to another ad that you'll make back end money from it. It seems it's very goofy to me. Add the MiloTree Pop-Up to Your Blog and Grow Your Followers and Subscribers on Autopilot Jillian Leslie 22:22 Given this uncertain time as online entrepreneurs, all we crave is certainty. So what if I could promise you that growing your social media followers on Instagram, Facebook, Pinterest, YouTube, plus your email list could happen automatically. All you need is a blog or a site you own and some visitors and I guarantee that the MiloTree pop-up app will automatically convert those visitors into followers and subscribers and you don't have to do a thing. We are no longer living in the world as it was. I think we're all realizing the importance of nurturing our online businesses. So we can have freedom to live the lives we want, but in order to get there, we have to manage our scarcest resource time. So let MiloTree do the heavy lifting for you when it comes to growing followers and email subscribers, and you spend your time creating content solutions products that serve your audience, so you can start seriously monetizing your blog. So here's my advice. stay consistent. Kill the perfectionist in you so you can get stuff out there quickly. Touch yourself with kindness, embrace the mess, and go make a couple of smart choices like using MiloTree on your blog to grow your followers and subscribers. So you don't have to worry about that. Get Your First 30 Days of MiloTree Free Sign up now for MiloTree and get your first 30 days free. There's really no risk 8,000 other bloggers just like you, are using MiloTree right now to grow their businesses. Please pause this episode and head to MiloTree.com to sign up for your free trial. With all the worry we're feeling this will give you one less thing to worry about. So what are you waiting for hit pause, head to MiloTree and sign up today. How to Start to See the Opportunities for Creating Products Monica Froese 24:07 So what ended up happening through running this course and getting very dedicated to being in it for these two years and not letting myself diverge off and create all these new products, is I started to see the gaps. And I took notes of these gaps, but I was resistant to filling them until I had that course so buttoned in, and just and the students were doing really well with it. Once I got to that point, and I would say that took just under two years. So I started the course in November of 2017. And in November of 2019 is really when we started launching, again, different products. So the first thing we did was we realized that some people have really ugly landing page and it matters for conversions, and I get super good opt-ins and tripwire conversions. And I have other different funnels that I teach, specific to Pinterest that I get really good conversion rates. And when I would be asked to review like my ad tanked, I'd go into the page that they're promoting. And I was like, you know, and it's hard to get feedback like that, but your page is ugly. You know, that's hard. That's hard feedback to give. So I thought, How can I solve that problem? I created templates in Elementor and LeadPages. I use LeadPages for all my funnels. And so that was my first. That was the first way I was going to solve the problem of people not having ugly pages. Unknown Speaker 25:39 Are you working with a designer? Are you designing them yourself? Selling High Converting Template Landing Pages Monica Froese 25:43 Funny enough, I don't feel like I am a designer at all, but yet I make pretty good landing pages. I like pretty things that convert. So first in my mind was, how do I get this to convert? Second in my mind is how do I make this look aesthetically appealing? Because and this is super important. Pinterest is a visual search engine people expect to come from Pinterest and see pretty things and I was seeing so many funnels that had ads popping up and pop-ups here and pop-ups there and it's like, guys, like a display ad should never be on a sales page Jillian Leslie 26:36 For MiloTree, we create it so that you can turn it off on certain pages and people say why would I turn it off? And I go, if you are selling something you do not want to distract from the sale even if it's my product, turn it Monica Froese 26:52 off. Yeah, exactly. And that's the stuff that Oh, I just feel like there was a big gap of understanding. Finding that and so when so we started with the templates and those went super well. Monica Froese 27:09 I created them on LeadPages. And we duplicated them on Elementor. So we have two solutions. Here's the difference between my templates and what you see on the market for other people's templates. A lot of templates sellers are giving you templates in different color palettes, right. Mine are designed with the conversion mechanism in mind and you have to plug in your branding to it. So it's like branding agnostic. I'm not giving you different color palettes or anything like that. I'm giving you a page that I know convert. You plug your messaging and your brand into it, which is, I found very different than pretty much anything out there that I've seen at this point. And it's very specific because I've spent years testing, where different buttons should go and different headlines. And so it's basically like, the best information I can give you for what has worked on Pinterest. Not just with me, though, with hundreds of my students, because as I've cultivated this promoted pins group, I help them to change their pages. So over time, you just get really good when you see the back end of hundreds, I mean, really thousands of campaigns, you just get good at knowing what works and what doesn't. If You Get People to Trust You, They Will Buy More From You So that's when that came out. But there was still a gap I had in the Pinterest suite of things. So I had the organic Pinterest marketing course which we were keeping updated, but it wasn't necessarily my passion. It was kind of like the on-ramp into getting to know how I teach. And I do think when you stick with the same teacher makes things more seamless. So by the time we get to my promoted pins course, it's like you already understand my logic of Pinterest. So I had an organic, I have an organic Pinterest course, then I did an affiliate marketing course, on Pinterest because not everyone is ready to move right to products. So affiliate marketing is a nice gap that can be filled on Pinterest. Then it went right to paid ads. What I realized was I had a gap between the affiliate marketing and the paid ads, which was I needed to teach people how to create Pinterest-friendly sales funnels. And so actually, as we speak, I am in the very last module right now I'm launching it. I have 125 people in the beta round and I would say probably 85% of them are promotion students so they're my students that know they trust me. They know I delivered in that course, and I'm telling them hey, this course is going to make your funnels just amazing so that when you go back to ads, they will convert like gangbusters. And they're like, yeah, we trust you. We know you you know what you're talking about. That launch I did on Black Friday went nuts. It was like, incredible. The power what I learned from that because all these are learning lessons like, every time I've launched the Promoted pins course, I've learned so many different things like from flash sales, to life challenges, to how long you should have between launches. When I launched them Black Friday, this new sales funnels course to my current students that taught me the power of cultivating your students and pouring into them, they will buy almost everything else you offer, because they trust you. And I'm like, Whoa, light bulb, like I mean, that's logic, right. It's actually very logical. But it was such a lightbulb moment for me to realize that people that everything I did over those two years, really meant something. So that's what we're doing now is teaching people and when this is over, it's kind of like the last installment of my Pinterest, then I have like really a whole framework in place. So there are a few things you have to decide one we want to move the Pinterest courses to MonicaFroese.com. So that Redefining Mom can go back to being for moms. I really feel passionate. The Importance of Integrity as An Online Entrepreneur Like my employee right now, Haley, she's pregnant. And it really reignited my passion for maternity leave. Because under the law in the US, I'm not required to pay her or give her a maternity leave. But I'm going to because I believe that I need to set an example if I'm going to sit here and preach about that stuff, which I did when I started Redefining Mom, that I need to live up to that. And it really reignited my passion to want to help moms. So my goal now is to get the Pinterest stuff buttoned up running. However, we ended up combining it maybe it's gonna be one framework we don't know yet. Like that's our questions there. And then that's going to be moved over into its own thing and then I want to dive back into creating more funnels in more products for the mom side of the house. Jillian Leslie 32:03 I love that. And just to go back for a second to filling in gaps, I noticed because I'm on your email list that you are always coming out with templates for pins and selling them or offering some I think for free. I don't know how you do it, but what I love about what you're saying, Have I noticed a gap? I fill it. Monica Froese 32:28 When I got started, there were a lot of like marketing people, gurus, experts that would say stuff like that, like listen to what your audience is telling you, and then create the product that they want. And for some reason that never clicked for me. I'm like I don't under I didn't. It didn't resonate until I was in the weeds. And this is part of the reason why I don't want people to get stuck. I see so many people getting stuck in the questions that they should not be getting stuck in because you don't know until you try. You have to start putting stuff out there so you understand what people want from you. And then you move forward. Like if I had never done the promoted pins course, I never would have realized how important teaching the sales funnel piece was. You know, it just all I needed all of that, Jillian Leslie 33:15 I would say, and you can tell me what you think the more you are willing to roll up your sleeves and get in the muck with your customers, the more success you'll have because it's in the muck. It's in the confusions. You can't be kind of above it all thinking you're gonna sell stuff to people. You need to get down and dirty. Like it's, you know, I always talk about this, get on the phone. Monica Froese 33:45 Oh, yeah. Jillian Leslie 33:46 Do things that do not scale. You know, you think you're going to set up all these automations are all going to be working in the background and the money's just going to come? And it's like, you take that person who's asking you questions and you say hey, can we do like a 10-minute phone call. And of course, you can't do that 100 times, but you could do it three times, you could do it five times. We've been successful in businesses where we understand where people are struggling, like from a visceral place, not from an intellectual place. Monica Froese 34:21 So one of the things that I like to tell people, because everyone always wants to look at where I am now, and they forget all the things I had to do to get here. I used to do 15 minute calls. All the time, I had a free Facebook group that I had regular teaching lives in that I never missed for like a year and a half, like so I had, I ended up having to close the group when the baby was born just because I could not keep I couldn't keep up with it. And I didn't have an employee at that point either. But the point is, like I showed up for free for a very, very long time to understand what people want it. It wasn't just a matter of I put up a funnel and it did well. I'm not gonna lie, I can put up a funnel now, and I can get it to do well without ever getting on the phone with someone. But I've learned so much over the four years. It's all of that experience that has gotten me to the point that I can do that now. Jillian Leslie 35:22 Absolutely, absolutely. So do it's messy. Like, those are always those are always my thing. Like, don't think it's neat. Don't think it's like you just kind of follow what you know, you pay thousands of dollars for a course and boom, all of a sudden you're gonna have business and it's all gonna work out. Ah, it's like nights of anxiety where you don't understand why this should work and it's not working and it's tweaking and it's making it ugly before it looks pretty and it's, it's getting down in the weeds. So if you're willing to like, get in the muck, that's how you grow business. It doesn't look you know you see people Like Goop with Gweneth Paltrow and it just looks so effortless. And so even though you look at it and go I want that. Like No, no, it's you in your pajamas. It's you. You know with a crying baby on your hip. It's you going Why isn't this working? It's you investing in Pinterest ads and sometimes losing money because you're trying to learn, right? So if you think it's glamorous or anything, trust me, it's totally not. But I think it's totally worth it. But know that your mess is not unique. It's the way through to ultimately find little nuggets of success. Why You Need to Treat Your Online Business Like a Full-Time Job Monica Froese 36:48 I absolutely agree with all that. I show up every day I treat this like a full time job. I get up every morning as if I'm going to work. I take my shower, I get changed. I make my coffee, I sit down, and I work for eight hours. It's not, I don't, I don't work in the margins. I personally don't feel like I'm wired to work in the margins. And I have seen women that do work in the margins. And they have made some really amazing things doing that. I would, I would argue that the majority of people who are going to be successful are going to need to treat it as if it's a full-time job and treat it like you would get up for a job. There are plenty of days like this morning, I got a migraine. And it would have been much easier for me to close my computer and not be on this podcast and not finish the Facebook ads. I'm going to finish when I get off this podcast and not finish the module. But I'm not going to because that's not what gets me to the next step. It's all building blocks. I say that all the time. Like my sister right now is trying to start a blog because she's at home with her kids. She's a health care worker, but she's, uh, she goes to people's houses. And so that's pretty much like not happening right now in the current environment. Um, so she's home. And she's thinking like 15 steps ahead, and I keep reminding her that like you have 15 building blocks you're missing here. You got to go back to the beginning. Everyone started from nothing, you got to go back there. You can't be where I am now, because I had four years to get here. Jillian Leslie 38:27 Absolutely. People ask me all the time. They want a magic bullet. They want something and they say, how did you grow Catch My Party to millions of pages a month? And I go, it's a long slog. That is the answer. And they don't like that. Because if I believe me, if there were a magic bullet, I'd be using it. And I'd be selling it for like millions of dollars. But the truth is, you make mistakes, you make a couple smart decisions along the way. You add some keywords in there, you know, work with your audience, you definitely are making decisions and you hope that those are the right decisions, or if they're not that you're able to pivot those decisions. But for me, I would argue it's all about showing up. Just what you're saying. Monica Froese 39:16 Yeah. And I went through a period in late 2018, where I was, I was in a pretty bad burnout stage. And I stopped emailing as much as I used to, and there's a direct correlation with communicating with your audience to sales, really, I mean, it's all about consistency and showing up and being a real person. Unknown Speaker 39:45 I feel like we're gonna have to do a part two, where you come back and talk more about this, like the nitty gritty, Monica Froese 39:51 I took notes before we got in. Okay, I know I know. At some point in my notes, I said, connection and more connection, especially when you're first getting started, tell us and then like how I have my free group and I went live every single day. And in my paid course I show up every single day, they didn't just pay me money, and then I disappear. Reputation is everything. And I've said this so many times, and I firmly believe that I will make money slower. If it means keeping my integrity and my ethics in place, and I love that. There are people that make money online that are not ethical and they don't keep their integrity in place. And I don't want to be that person. Jillian Leslie 40:44 And I feel if you want to be in it for the long term. That is the answer because people can ultimately I believe that it gets discovered. You know, like you can't, I don't believe that if you work in the internet, you have to weirdly believe in karma. Because eventually it comes back to you. So the more good you put out there, the more good you ultimately get back. Now, it might not be in the way you think it's going to be. And this is again, that idea of, you have to hold things, ideas lightly, because you don't know what it's going to look like you have an idea of what it's going to look like, like, I'm providing all this value, why isn't the money coming? Well, maybe something else is coming. You know, maybe, who knows, maybe you're attracting a person to you that you can ultimately work with. And that's gonna lead to something like it's not necessarily going to look the way you think it's going to look. But if you put enough good stuff out there, over time, you weirdly, I think, attract a lot of good stuff back. And the reverse is true, which is if you cut corners, if you don't walk your talk, if you don't deliver, you could probably survive for a year or so but eventually it will show. Yes, You Want to Make Money Online Monica Froese 42:02 So the thing is, I, okay, I find nothing wrong with being in business to make money. Like that's what we have to feed our families. Like I show up every day, I should get paid for my hard work. There's nothing wrong with running a business that's profitable, and making money at all. There's nothing wrong with it. I think the disconnect is when you don't, when a business owner doesn't understand the bigger impact that they're trying to make in the world, and it's just all about the money. If it's only about the money. It is very hard to wake up every day, stay motivated and keep doing it. Because absolutely, just money is great, but I'm going to tell you I firmly believe now and the thing, more money, more problems. That is a true statement in my opinion. It's not all rainbows and roses all the time. It's a lot of hard work and so if you lose sight of why you're doing it to begin with, and that's why, like when my employee got pregnant, and they put me in this position where I could walk the talk, which meant when I started Redefining Mom, my rant was about maternity leave in the US. I actually got to talk to President Obama about this to his face. And I will never forget when he said to me, he's like, so what are you going to do about it? That was what ignited me to start this, like to make this a business that served moms, not just about money, but it was about making a greater impact. So when she got pregnant, I actually can hear him saying I can see and hear him saying this to me. What are you going to do about it? Well, you know what, I am going to offer her a paid maternity leave because she deserves that. I ranted about that and I am not going to contribute to that problem. Jillian Leslie 43:50 And I would say by you doing that, which is it's a sacrifice to you, you're not going to have an employee, and money's going out out the door. However, She will love you and be so dedicated to you and go the extra mile because you saw her and you were there for her. Again, not a bad situation, but you know what I mean? Like, again, you do not know that you will, chances are get that back tenfold. Unknown Speaker 44:25 Oh, absolutely. Jillian Leslie 44:26 But it's about the faith of that. It's about putting out your best highest self and it gets rewarded. So I again, I don't mean to sound all woowoo about this, but think about how you show up and where your values are because I believe people can sniff it out. Monica Froese 44:45 They can. Okay, so this actually goes to like the topic of the tripwires because a lot of my students and a lot of people I teach, are afraid to sell. They are so afraid to sell and and I always ask them, Do you not believe in what you're selling because if you believe in what you're selling, you wouldn't be afraid to sell like I got to a point in this, I think was the last launch I did for the promoted pins course, I had someone emailed me and was not very kind about. They thought that I was charging too much. And all these course creators think they can charge all this money and they all suck and they don't provide. I wrote her back a very factual answer, which is that there are some crappy courses out there. I've taken them I've invested in them, and I understand where you're coming from, but mine's not crap. And I show up every single day, and it is worth what I'm charging you and I'm I stand behind it. I don't feel bad about charging it because I know I provide that plus more value. And so when people feel like they can't sell that, the question I always have is, do you not believe that what you're selling can actually help the person you're selling it to? Because if you believe it, there's no issue with selling because it's your expertise, you're giving them the shortcut, you know, selling is a good thing. Also selling is what keeps our economy going. People Value What They Pay For Jillian Leslie 46:08 Absolutely. And wait and I will say this. There's this weird reverse thing, which is, when I get something for free, I tend not to value it as much. But if I put money behind it, you better believe I'm going to show up, I'm more likely to show up. If I paid a couple of hundred bucks, let's say for something versus it's the exact same product, but now you're giving it to me for free. So if you want a more dedicated say, student, my hunch is those students that have made the decision to actually open up their wallets and pay you will be better students, which will make a better course which will make a better you know, the whole environment is better. So free is not always better. In fact, I would argue if you're if you are providing value, you charge for it because you want to attract the kind of customer who's willing to pay for it Monica Froese 47:04 Exactly. And so that when you offer something for free to get a conversion to get people on your list, you give them a taste of who you are and what you know and what you can offer them. But it doesn't give away the kitchen sink as they say. Pinterest is a visual search engine. So people come to Pinterest with a problem. They search it, they visually are looking to see their solutions. That's what they arrive on with search results. It's a visual solution that they're looking at. So I come they like to say like meal planning for a week. When I get there. I want to see a visual representations of what meal planning solutions, that's what I'm looking for. So when I click to the meal planning solution, let's say it's an opt-in, that opt-in is to solve, it's meant to solve a quick win. Your Opt-In Should Be a Quick Win It's to give them that immediate gratification that you can help them over that hump. And then your paid product is like, and it can go. There's two different ways, i Pinterest that often can be a layer of your solution, like the first prong of your solution. And the paid is the rest. It's how they take that first prong and make it an actual system. Or your opt-in can be the "what" and the "why,"like, this is why you need this. This is how it will help you and then your paid product is the how. So there's two different ways that you can look at it. I would say I lean more towards the "what" and the "why" and the paid product is the "how." Jillian Leslie 48:46 So I like that. Oh, I like that. Okay, so Monica. I feel like we could talk forever and I know that you have a hard stop. Will you come back? Can we put this in our calendars. We can talk about the tactics, I feel you and I, we are so like-minded. I'm so happy to know you as my online friend on the east coast. Because I feel like my audience loves the tactics, you know what not to do what to do that kind of thing. Monica Froese 49:19 So interesting that you say that because my course on sales funnels is broken down. Strategy is the first three modules. And the last three are tactics. And I say in the course, you cannot have the tactics without the strategy and everyone wants to go to the tactics always and not have the strategy and that's when you fail. And I seriously take my students kicking and screaming sometimes through the strategy, like they just want to tell me where to put this and tell me where to put that and No, I will not. I refuse because if you don't understand the strategy if you don't understand the problem you're solving if you don't get all of that and how it fits into the bigger picture. But you can have all the tactics in the world and it will not help you make sales. Jillian Leslie 50:05 Absolutely, absolutely. Okay Monica. I just I love talking to you so, so let's we're literally going to hang up this call and schedule part two. And I just love that you come on on the show and you share so much. Monica Froese 50:22 Well, I'm really glad that you have me. People listen, I love doing this. Jillian Leslie 50:28 Alright, so Okay, so until part two. Key Takeaways My big takeaway from this episode is how putting in some thought about your solution, how to attract your audience, how to provide them with a quick win and then ultimately sell them on the solution, I think is really powerful, I think to step back in your own business and think about putting these pieces together, lining them up. So they all make sense is what I recommend. Did it take some thought it really does. If you want to talk product with me, please reach out at Jillian@milotree.com. And I'd love to hear what you're thinking and give you some feedback. Also, I want to say do check out the military membership. So it's Milo tree.com/membership, if you are looking for tech support, ongoing tech support, so we've got your back. So when you want to make a change to your blog, we can do that for you. Also, it provides you with workshops, ongoing workshops of what is what are cutting edge strategies that we want to share with you both strategies that are working in our business, but also strategies that we are seeing work in people's businesses and also community because being an online entrepreneur can sometimes feel lonely. It can feel like you are yelling into the abyss and you're not sure anybody is listening. Well, I'm listening and this community is listening. So, if you if any of those things are interesting to you, and you can roll them all into one, please head to milotree.com/membership. And again, there are no contracts or anything so there's really no risk and I will see you here again next week. Imagine a world where growing your social media followers and email list was easy… It can be with MiloTree! Try the MiloTree pop-up app on your blog for 30 days risk-free! Let your MiloTree pop-ups help you get to that next level by turning your visitors into email subscribers and social media followers on Instagram, Pinterest, Facebook, and YouTube. Sign up today! Install your MiloTree pop-ups on your site in under two minutes. Sign up for MiloTree now and get your first 30 DAYS FREE!
I wanted to publish this episode to let you all know that, after long and careful consideration, I have decided to take an extended hiatus from the podcast. Here are my reasons: This has been a passion project for me and, although I thought I might someday make money from it, I realize now that probably won’t happen. So, it’s time for me to focus my attention on my true money maker, which is my Dishes Delish food blog. Dishes Delish has grown leaps and bounds since I started this podcast. I attribute that growth to a few things. The first was my audit in June of 2018 with Casey Markee. That was the catalyst. I had interviewed Casey before that but at the time I decided to move forward with my audit, the blog had only five thousand sessions a month. Mind you, I had been blogging for almost 3 years. Casey helped focus me. He taught me to not pick keywords like “dark chocolate caramel marshmallow cashew butter cups” Yes, I actually used those keywords in a post. As you can imagine, it gets 0 monthly searches. But I’m the reigning champ of that keyword. I am in the carousal and #1 in Google search results. And that’s only one of my really long keywords. Casey also got me to write for my readers and help solve problems. That was a game changer for sure. Another game changer was the viral moment I had in September of 2018. The HBO show Camping mentioned a jelly donut shot in one of its episodes and at that time, the monthly viewfor those keywords was only 330. But here’s why I had that viral moment. My Jelly Donut shot was already #1 in search results, so everyone and their brother who watched that episode of Camping clicked through to my website. That shot is still #1 and now has a monthly search volume of 4400. That shows you how something can grow just by having exposure. And that exposure was also a growth catalyst because, as with all such exposure, having people look at my jelly donut shot brought them back to the site to see other content, which gave me even more sessions. By October of 2018 – and remember: in June of the same year, I had only 5k sessions a month – I qualified for Mediavine and in November their ads went live on my site. Fast forward 6 months, when I was lucky to have another viral moment. My pistachio cookie recipe became my top post, toppling my Cadillac Margarita from 1st place. The popularity of this cookie post allowed me to apply for (and join) AdThrive. Now remember, to join MediaVine, you need 25k monthly sessions. AdThrive requires 100k pageviews. Now, I tell you all this for two reasons, first to explain why I’m placing the podcast on hiatus. I need to focus on the blog to make it even more successful by adding various income streams. Secondly, I am hoping to inspire you by letting you know that you can do it too. Don’t get me wrong, it takes a lot of work and sometimes a little luck. But you don’t have to have a viral moment to succeed. Many of my guests didn’t have one, and yet they are successful; it just takes years and hard work. So, keep at it and don’t give up. Write for your readers, help them solve a problem and create quality content. I also want to say that it is not always necessary to pick keywords that have a high monthly search volume. Some of my more popular posts have under 1000 monthly searches on Google but they do really well on Pinterest. So I would have missed out on this if I’d listened to the experts and neglected to follow my gut. Experts are great and can be a big help but you also can rely on yourself by doing what you think is best. You can also help yourself by joining Facebook groups like Food Bloggers Central. Ask questions, learn from other bloggers mistakes and if you’re wanting some inspiration, visit Dishing with Delishes and re-listen to interviews with food bloggers who forged their way before us. You can also listen to experts like Casey Markee, Andrew Wilder, Matt Molen and Grayson Bell just to name a few. Now you’re probably wondering if I’ll be returning to the podcast. My first instinct is to say no, because I need the break without having to think about the show, interview future guests or edit episodes. Last year, I started publishing the podcast in seasons thinking it would give me a break but, I never really felt like I had any time off and believe me, I need that time for blog growth endeavors. But you never know. I will miss chatting with other bloggers and learning more about their journeys. Don’t be a stranger! If you see me on social media, say ‘hi’ or drop me a line at Elaine @ Dishes Delish dot com. Because, as you know I love chatting with bloggers and would love to hear from you. Okay, it's time for me to sign off. This is Elaine Benoit from Dishing with Delishes and Dishes Delish. I enjoyed this fun ride and thank you from the bottom of my heart for listening in. Happy New Year, everyone! I wish you a prosperous 2020.
Scott Voelker, the amazing seller himself, is back on the podcast today with a new book that will guide entrepreneurs on a path to financial freedom. Scott has transformed from someone who dabbled in e-commerce into a seven figure business owner, author, and host of one of the most popular e-commerce podcasts out there. Now he is sharing his tips with other entrepreneurs, offering sets of specific steps to follow to create a business that will allow freedom and flexibility. From the construction career he left at an early age to starting and building a successful photography business, Scott has built on his entrepreneurial nature for over two decades. In 2008 he started selling photography products online and soon realized it could become a full time income. Fast forward a few more years and he started to hear more about Amazon FBA model and how some people were making good money using the platform. He started researching and listening to any valuable information he could garner then used all the know-how he'd gathered and applied it to his product listings. Episode Highlights: How Scott and his wife got their start building a business from the ground up. Scott discusses the path he took and how the book delves into his future plans. Whether he finds the pathway to the end goal more difficult than five to ten years ago. How Scott is evolving from being “The Amazon Guy.” Helping others with the book and the action steps he outlines. Scott addresses the question of finding time to start a side hustle. Learning how to schedule downtime once success allows for less work time. Tips for finding that future-proof opportunity. Taking the affiliate marketing path as an opportunity to learn your market. Using channel diversification as a building block. Transcription: Mark: Joe recently I sent you a book through Amazon that I was hoping you would read and I'm assuming that's the next book on your reading list, right? Joe: No. Sorry. Mark: I'm not going to buy you any more gifts. Joe: No. Now you sent it to me via Amazon and I think I have to download it onto my Kindle app. Mark: You haven't even downloaded it? Joe: I haven't even downloaded it. Mark: Oh my goodness. Joe: You're just trying me. See the reason I haven't is because it's a productivity book and you're trying to get me to be more productive but I haven't read it yet so I'm not as productive as I could be. Do you see an excuse thing going on here? Mark: Productivity is one of those things that I'm sure everybody's like Joe is terrible at getting stuff done. Joe: This book I'm holding out for those that are on the YouTube channel. Thank you for being on the YouTube channel, by the way, you're awesome. This is the book I'm currently reading it's called the Take Action effect By Scott Voelker; a friend of ours and we just had him on the podcast. And that's what the book is all about. It's a combination of, and this is why I'm not reading the book you sent me. And I have one more in front of that by the way but this one is amazing it's really telling Scott's story. Scott as lot of people know has a podcast called The Amazing Seller podcast. With the audience he has every month he could fill up the Bank of America Stadium here in Charlotte and I think that's like 25, 30,000 people. He started out just telling his story building an Amazon business and everything he was going through. He just laid it all out on the line. He's really transferred himself or transformed himself into someone that is first and foremost helping people take action in their lives and he talks about this in the book and how he did certain things in his life and what an impact it had and what it led to next and next and next and now where he's at running a 7 figure business with the lifestyle that he wants. It's still one of the most important things about Scott and the book and the action steps that he shows people how to take is to run a business, set your own goals, how to set goals properly with vision boards and different things but with a lifestyle that you want. This is not a get rich quick scheme it's a book to build the life that you want; how to take certain steps and actions and if you want to run a 10, 20, 30, 40, 50 million dollar business great. These will help and there are some examples of that; of people that are doing that. But if you want to just earn an extra couple of thousand dollars on the side and build the business slowly there are absolutely some steps in there for those folks as well; people that are listening now that still have full time jobs that don't dare buy a business this allows them to take certain steps and actions to do that and build a safe business that's going to be relatively passive that they could do part-time as they build that up and eventually quit your day job work and sell it through Quiet Light. Mark: One of the things I like about this is the idea of having a purpose to what you're doing. And I think there is this tendency to chase success, chase success, chase success, and we put in our minds that success is a certain business goal while we ignore the other aspects of our life. And I know over the past 13 years running Quiet Light Brokerage I've run across so many successful entrepreneurs who have built amazing businesses but frankly are somewhat miserable because they've built prisons for themselves. And we talk about why are people selling. Sometimes it's just because they've built that prison of a business and they need to get out. And they realize that they need to readjust their life priorities. I love when we meet people like Scott, like Ezra Firestone, and some of these other guys that have reached certain levels of success and now what they're doing is they're really trying to just be helpful and really contribute to that entrepreneurial community with some of the lessons they've learned. And I love the focus of this book. I love that it's a system out there to help you identify what's really important and have everything else flow into that, set the real goals out there and build that system including the business that fits those goals. Joe: And it's just that Scott is a real guy giving real-life examples of things that he's done and the path that he's taken and he's giving real advice here that is action-oriented. And it's a mindset. It's inspiration. And they're steps to take as well. It's one of the best books I've read in 2019. I highly recommend everybody take a listen to the podcast and at the end and in the show notes here you can go to take action effect and download or buy the book. It's available. He went further than our very own Walker Deibel, he made it available in the audio version as well. Mark: Walker needs to step his game up and start a recording. No. Fantastic. Let's get to this episode here. I love introducing our audience to people that we find to be good friends of Quiet Light because they share some of our mission and purpose. So I'm excited to share this episode with everybody. Joe: Let's get to it. Joe: Hey folks Joe Valley here from the Quiet Light Podcast and today I have a guest that is back on. But this time he is a published author on his way I'm sure to being a best-selling author. Scott Volker, welcome to the Quiet Light Podcast. Scott: What's going on Joe? Thanks so much for having me. Joe: Welcome back I should say. I just saw you a couple of weeks ago at Brand Accelerator Live; a fantastic event where you launched the book, a big hit and my goodness I'm looking at some of the reviews and they're fantastic. And I'm reading it myself of course. And let's get into that but first for those folks that don't actually know who you are why don't you tell us all about Scott Voelker? Scott: Yeah. Well to kind of sum it up I've been at this basically creating businesses that allow me to have the flexibility, the freedom, that's always my first and foremost. Back when I was like 21 years old I was working for my father's construction company and from there I thought I was going to own that company one day and then that partnership and son in law that was stealing and some craziness I soon saw that that wasn't the path that I was going to take. But I wanted to still be able to work for myself and my wife and I started a photography business, learned the ropes through good old trial and error, and built that into a business that allowed us to take our kids to school and home from school and all of that stuff. And it's really important me to watch my kids grow up and I've got 3 kids ages now 11, 21, and 24. But I've been at this for over 18 years and really building businesses hasn't really changed just the platforms have changed. And so when I wrote this book I wanted to go through and tell the story of myself. Someone that didn't have a college degree and felt a long time ago that I kind of felt to myself like I wasn't smart because I didn't go to college. But then after kind of building some businesses and watching other people go to their 60 plus hour a week job and then seeing myself not have to do that I was like well wait a minute I'm going to give myself a little bit more credit. I've done okay. And so it in a nutshell that's what I do. I just love building businesses. But I like more about just building a business it's more about the freedom and the flexibility, stability and all that stuff. Joe: And that is what you talk about in the book. Let me just; I don't think I said what the name of the book is. It's called The Take Action Effect. Scott: Yeah. Joe: Proven Steps To Build a Future Proof Business And Create Your Ultimate Freedom. I'll hold it up here for those folks that are on the podcast; I'm sorry on the YouTube channel. Scott: Yeah. Joe: One of the things that you talk about in the book really hit home with me and that is that your wife had that first idea for you to go off and on your own. Scott: Yeah. Joe: And it's and it's continued in your relationship. You guys work through all of your business opportunities and ideas together, right? Scott: Yeah, 100%. I mean she was my take action moment as I talk about in the book a lot. I think we all have these moments in our life that something happens; like a decision happens that we make either because we're forced to and then we see the result from it or we choose to, we take that leap. And I was frustrated with my job and I thought I was going to own this company and then found out that it wasn't going to probably happen and we needed to figure out another way. And then that's when my wife had said maybe we should start a photography business which at the time we didn't have digital it was all film based not YouTube videos to go out there and educate yourself. So Scott that wasn't a good student in school had to figure out how to go through and teach myself Photoshop and just how to run a studio and we did that. But yes she was the one with the idea and still to this day she's always the one kind of nudging me a little bit and saying like you should probably listen to this. Even the podcast The Amazing Seller Podcast that was because she said that you should; I had the idea but she was likey should probably lean into that a little bit and here we are. Joe: That's funny you know my wife usually has the idea and then I have to go out and do it. It's a running joke in 20 plus years of marriage. I was going to I think our wives are very similar. Our marriages are very similar but it sounds like there's one distinct difference is that my wife comes up with the idea and I have to execute. So you're taking a lot of past so it's interesting from a construction worker to entrepreneur in the photography space before really the online world existed and then discovering it through eBay and then Amazon and then The Amazing Seller podcast. Scott: Yeah. Joe: Can you just talk about that path a little bit and talk about what the Part 2 of this business about this book talks about? Scott: Yeah. So like I said the photography business being brick and mortar I learned a lot about how to get clients in the door. And a lot of people say like Scott when you start a business should it be your passion. And if it could be then yes that would be amazing because then you would love to work on it every day. But I wasn't passionate about photography. I was passionate about getting out of my job. So my wife was passionate about photography but then I started to develop these passions and that was marketing and that was Photoshop and video editing. And the way that it kind of led me to really the online space and e-commerce really was my wife was looking for props on eBay. So in our business, we always were unique in the way that we had props. We had certain sets and we had like a lot of backgrounds that cost us 2 or $3,000 and people would pay just to come in because we had this hand-painted backdrop. So my wife was looking for this cedar bridge that she had seen somewhere else and she found one on eBay. It was like 130 bucks it was a little 4-foot little wooden cedar bridge. And so then as she was looking at one of the other stores that she shops at she's seen the same bridge for 30 bucks and she's like it's selling for 130. I bought one for 130 maybe we should try to sell this thing. I said okay. So then that's where we got the idea and we started selling those. Actually, we took the minivan over to the store and we loaded it up and we packed that thing and that money actually paid for our kids tuition for a private school. And so that opened my eyes to eBay and like what else could I sell, right? And even though I had a business I'm still thinking to myself as an entrepreneur like well that wasn't that hard. Maybe I should try to find more things to sell. So then we actually started a video business on the side of our photography business; they kind of work too, you know one of the same. And then I started building these projectors to transfer old 8-millimeter film. So the old 8-millimeter film that we use to have grown up as kids it was a lot of times silent film but there was some sound when it got; I think it was Super 8 and then I found a machine that was modified to transfer the film. And so when I got that I kind of looked at it and being in the construction world I'm like this is just a modified projector. Let me go ahead and reverse engineer what they did here and I did that and I started selling them on eBay for about 800 bucks. I was selling one or two of them a week. Joe: Wow. Scott: Yeah, so I made about 100,000 on just old projectors that I modified for film transfer and that's kind of what got my wheels spinning about this online stuff. Joe: And it never would have happened if you didn't; I'm going say this so many times, taken some action, right? Entrepreneurs are special people. They come up with an idea and they don't think about it and think about it and think about it and think about it. They've got to do some planning, of course, the more complex world we live in you've got to do some planning especially when you're going to spend some dollars. But I think maybe Scott back then when you and I didn't have any gray hair we were able to take action a little simpler and a little quicker, right? I would just with that whole ready aim fire or ready fire aim what is it? Scott: Yeah. Joe: Those things, right? And I just take my path and hustle and work hard and get it done and figure out the road to that end goal which I knew what the end goal was. I just didn't know the road or the path. Scott: Yeah. Joe: Are you finding now given that you've; I mean you've done all this for 20 years an entrepreneur in many, many different past and you've coached thousands of people through The Amazing Seller podcast and many of them 6, 7, 8, 10 figure exit eventually. Scott: Yeah. Joe: Are you finding that the pathway to that end goal whether it's an eventual exit of a business or just a one of a lifestyle where you can drive your kids to work every day and spend more time with your spouse and you take family vacations, is it more difficult than it used to be in your opinion? Scott: I think it depends on what your final outcome is. I think for a lot of people it's not about building an 8 figure business just to say you built an 8 figure business; to some people it is. It's like bragging rights but for a lot of people; and I know you told me a story about a guy he was a stay at home dad I think and he built his company in 2 years without pulling a dime out of it so they could cash it out and then live off of that and live the life that they wanted. So I think for a lot of people it is that. So for me personally I think it is I don't want to say easy; it's simple. Nothing is easy. Like everything that I've ever done, there's always been struggles and issues that you have to overcome; whatever like that's business. You just have to learn how to adapt, how to move, and adjust. But I think it is actually easier nowadays to build a business that you can potentially exit. And actually getting to know you more, getting to know the team over at Quiet Light has actually got my wheels spinning once again at looking at this as an opportunity for me to build something maybe from scratch, get it to a certain level, and then sell it, and then you just repeat that process. Like I could build a team to just help me do that. So again my wheels are always spinning. And the more I talk to you and I start hearing these stories I'm like that seems like a pretty straightway to go. But the principles and the concepts are pretty much the same. They haven't really changed. And that's what is in the book is really these pillars; these core things that make up a market, make up products, make up traffic; like all of that stuff hasn't really changed. The platforms change but the principles never change. Joe: You addressed some of the approaches in Part 2 of the book about building your future proof business. Scott: Yeah. Joe: You started out as an Amazon guy, right? You were selling on Amazon telling your story in the podcast but you've evolved quite a bit. Can you address that and then we'll talk about how the book addresses it as well? Scott: Well yeah but the book itself actually is my pivot. So we talk about pivoting all the time. So when I started the podcast you're right I was getting into the Amazon game just like everyone else was. It's just I was kind of doing it and other people were just kind of consuming information and saying like I'll wait until we have all the pieces that are working or all of the answers, right? Joe: You were telling your story whether it was a success or a failure and everybody was listening. Scott: Exactly. And so as I started to do that I also started to see how the market was shifting. So when the podcast was started it was Scott the Amazon guy. And then after I started to kind of see that the market was changing, more competition was coming, and it was getting a little bit riskier I'm like I don't want to go down that road. Now that doesn't mean it can't work. I just don't want the headaches of constantly just worrying that my accounts are going to get shut down or whatever. So I'm like I'm going to go back to basics build a business from skill sets that I've built and I talk a lot about that in the book like everything we've done we've built skill sets that we can then leverage in the future. So for me to really go down that road of like okay where was I van and where am I now, it's all about evolving; all about growing. I mean I think we're all doing that as we learn more things like even like when I first started I didn't think about having a brand that I could exit. And now I'm thinking; a lot of times I'm thinking to myself could this brand be sold, what would it take to sell this business? So a lot of times I'm thinking more along those lines now. But like I said people are always kind of like thinking of me as the Amazon guy and I don't want to be known; I don't want to 20 years from now be Scott the Amazon guy. I want to be the guy that helped people build a business that allowed them the life that they want and that they deserve. Joe: That's what I'm seeing with the people that I've met that have listened to your podcast and then to your events and are connected with you in any way. Whether it's Brand Accelerator Live, your inner circle Mastermind group, or The Amazing Seller podcast; they're not just building Amazon businesses, they're building businesses that will allow them to live the life that they choose to first and foremost. Scott: Right. Joe: Some of them that's all about building value and exiting and others it's all about taking care of others. Rachel; I had a conversation with one of your followers, listeners, attendees, whatever you want to call them, Rachel we don't use the last name but an amazing story. She's building a business so that she can help others. Scott: Yes. Joe: She's going to make money off the business but that's not the focus. The goal is to be able to use that money to help others foster children charities and things of that nature; really good people. You're building good humans which I think is terrific. You're surrounding yourself with them as well. Scott: It's pretty awesome. It's funny Joe I was just listening to the Ask Scott session that we recorded there live at Brand Accelerator and it just happened that the one lady came up and was telling us about her problem and her problem was is that she was wondering how she was going to keep up with the amount of scale. And I said that's a real bad problem to have. And I knew you were in there; I thought you were in there and I called you out and I go I think this is a question for Joe later kind of let him help you on that. But it's really; it's pretty rewarding to sit there and think to yourself I had something to do just because I showed up, pressed record, and started helping people. That right there that will; to me that surpasses any amount of money that I can make from a podcast is hearing other people's stories and how they're set up now to really live the life or maybe donate to their charity. That's like again the effect of the take action is the effects of that we're able to do the ripple effect on other people but also on your life and your business. So it's really about the ripple effect all the way through. Joe: Yeah, not necessarily about just building that business and exiting it. It's everybody involved along the way. Scott: 100%. Joe: That lady was Karen by the way and she did have some good problems, right? People wish to have her problems. Scott: Growth every year, year after year, and I don't know… Joe: Yeah. How do I keep up with buying more inventory? One of the things that you talked about which I think is really, really important both in the book and on stage and I'm going to just summarize for anybody listening. This book really encapsulates everything Scott's done in his life and what you've done in your life, Scott. But then it also gives a pathway to taking action and seeing what the impact and effect of that action is. But someone said look I'm busy I've got a full-time job. I'm trying to do this. How did you find the time for that? How do you find the time for this if you; you're an advocate of don't quit your day job if you have one do a little side hustle and build this over time until it's safe to exit. How would you address that question but Scott I just don't have time? Scott: Yeah and I actually I address this on stage when I came to that point because I shared my story that I was working 60 plus hours a week for my father's company running I think was like 13, 14 guys at one time that were underneath me making sure that those jobs got done. So I was always the first one there and the last one to leave like always. On the side, I was building a house from scratch. I was like 25 years old. Joe: That took a little time. Scott: It took me 11 months. And I remember Joe my mother in law lived up on the Hill. She lived probably I don't know maybe 500 or 1,000 feet. She was up on a hill though and she could look down and see the property. We had two acres. And I remember one night I wanted to get this one spot on the house done outside. It was up in the peak. I had a 30-foot ladder up against the house and I had floodlights out there at 2 o'clock in the morning because I wanted to finish. She couldn't sleep because she was worried about me going to fall and I'm up there nailing up my siding because I wanted to get that peak done because I didn't want to come back to it the next day and do it. And then I got up at 6x o'clock and I went to work. So when people say I don't have time I don't have sympathy for that because you probably have time you just are not really wanting it bad enough in my eyes. You know what you're watching your TV show or maybe you're taking an extended lunch break or maybe you're just oh I need my 8 hours of sleep you know like get 6 for a month, right? I mean it's not going to kill you but if you really want it bad enough you will find the time. And I've done it. My photography business when I was learning that when I was getting ready to leave my job I was up till 2 o'clock in the morning figuring out Photoshop. I was figuring out how we were going to do billing for our customers. Like I was figuring out all that stuff late at night and then I'd get up and I'd go to my job because I wanted it so bad. And I was so interested in it because I wanted it so bad. Joe: Yeah you are preaching to the choir if I'm the choir right now because yeah look the thing that I see consistently I mean I've done this in my life you and I have been self-employed for about the same amount of time and it's always started with a side hustle and then work like crazy. As you are building that business you're not really making a whole lot of money. You're not taking anything out and oddly enough when you're making the most money is actually when you're not working as hard in my experience. Scott: Right. Joe: You get it up to that level and it starts to just; it's a scalable business. And with that scale, it's starting to generate enough revenue to kick off and then you can quit your day job and then you can live that lifestyle that you want. It's hard though when you're a hard worker and a hustler like yourself and like so many people that are listening. How do you shift from that I'm used to working, I love working, I'm going to work, I'm going to work, I'm going to work to I'm going to sit down and I'm going to have coffee and breakfast with my wife every day by the pool at 8 o'clock? Do you have the discipline to really reschedule your downtime? Scott: You definitely have to schedule it for sure. You have to schedule it and I'm getting better with that like I'm still not perfect Joe. I have to make sure that at 6 o'clock at night that's my cutoff. I'm not going to do anymore posting and I'm not going to do any more answering. It's hard because we can work as long as we want. And when you start to see momentum you want to work more because you want [inaudible 00:24:18.18]. But I've made it very, very clear in my life that I want to have that time. I literally wrote out a vision board and really I created a video years ago that I wanted to see come true. It wasn't like you know the woo-woo stuff but it was like what am I working towards. And one of them was having a coffee and breakfast with my wife. And so here we are many years later and literally, I just got in now. I mean I started my day today at 10 o'clock in the morning. I had a first interview at 10:00. I dropped my daughter off the school at about 7:45. My wife and I got back here. We went out to the pool. I had coffee. I was out there with the dogs. I had my laptop. I was answering a few emails; doing stuff. I'm out there chillin' with my wife hanging out. And that's what I want my life to be. Now could I be doing other things to try to make the Amazing Seller bigger or my e-commerce businesses bigger? Yes, I could but I choose to; like that's kind of like my time. You know what I mean? Joe: Right? Scott: And I do think it's hard. You have to be disciplined. A lot of people say Scott I could never do it. I would never get any work done. Then maybe you do need a job. Joe: I've heard that often. I couldn't work from home I could never get any work and that's just discipline. It's focus and discipline. Scott: 100%. Joe: We've gone from how do you find the time to do this extra side business and side hustle and grow it to how do you schedule your downtime so that you could work. You don't need to as much but scheduling your personal life to make sure that you're there for your family and things of that nature. My kids are older than you. Well, not actually mine are 16 and 18 right. You've got 21? Scott: 21, 14, and 11, yeah, Joe: So I've driven my kids to school from kindergarten right up until last year when my oldest got his license and it's an honor, right? It's a privilege and an honor to be able to do that. And when they look back someday that's what they're going to remember. They're not going to remember that Dad was making more money or something like that. So from finding time to scheduling time; your book specifically talks about all of that in your life and creating the mindset of action and everything you've done in your life. But can you address like a little bit of the how to's in terms of building that future proof business and the steps that you go through with the folks that are listening. Scott: Yeah. To me, it's very, very simple and even if you're looking at this because I know people listening here are probably looking to possibly buy a business or sell a business. Here's the deal. Like whenever you're looking at an opportunity you want to first see if there's a market already there. Like a lot of people say I want to invent a market. That's risky because we don't know; I mean if you ever listen to Shark Tank they always say has the market validated the product? No I don't have any sales it's in pre, or we're kind of building this thing out, it's in pre-production, or we're in like the pre-stage and they're like come back to us when you have sales that the market actually voted and said we actually want and need this. So the market is critical. You have to have a market. Now I'd like it to also be a submarket. So we could talk about like and I always talk about the bass fishing. So if we went like fishing we would niche it down into bass fishing. If we wanted to go one level deeper we could go kayak bass fishing. And then we can really own that category and then we can also build out of that category to serve a wider part of the market. But I always like to look at the market first. Then from there, I want to see what's the potential in the market? And that could be going to Amazon and seeing how the products are selling using a tool like Jungle Scout or whatever tool you want. We have these tools that let us know the market's buying these products. Now we can either sell those products ourselves as our own brand or we can affiliate market those products. We can do all kinds of things. So I want to validate that there are actually sales being made there. Joe: Let me just stop you for a second because some of the language you're using I don't know if everybody knows it. Talk about the affiliate marketing aspect of it because it's a brilliant path that you educate people on taking. Scott: And I'm going to be doing more of it Joe; I got to be honest with you. I was just thinking about this this morning I'm like man there's so many things that I could cover just for getting back from Brand Accelerator Live. People get stuck at the I've got to launch products or I've got to grow mine. If you bought a business; right now if you bought a business and you're thinking I don't want to launch a whole bunch of products because it's something a whole bunch of capital. Why not take the content side of things. Build out traffic and start putting out products that are related to your product as an affiliate bringing some revenue but also get them to vote that the products that you're putting out there from them they want to buy then you can private label them. So I think it's an easier way to get started. If you're just listening to this and you're getting started, the easiest ways to start looking at the market and how much traffic the market has. And then from there can you get in front of the market by getting attention by posting content, building an email list, like getting attention with influencer, whatever. Then you can start to say okay all these products I'm not going to private label all these it's going to cost me a small fortune. I'm going to start putting products out there like a kayak bass fishing boat. Like I might do that but I'm not going to sell it as my own but I might do an affiliate offer for it. So basically on Amazon, we can use their whole catalog. We can become an associate for them. And it's not going to be a ton of money it's 4%, 8%, depending on where your bracket is; the category but it's a nice easy way anyone can get started. It's not going to cost you hardly anything to set up a website and to start posting content. You can write it yourself or have someone else write it and then just start building that over time. Joe: It's a great way to go back to discovering your market as well because as you niche it down people are going to buy certain things and you can say okay well that one's much more popular than the other. Scott: 100%. Joe: The tools like Jungle Scout do that very, very well. But this is an action you've got proof in your own bank account which ones they like more. What about the multiple channels. You and I have talked about this before. We talked about channel diversification. That's something you talk about quite a bit here as well. Scott: Yeah. Well, I think again there's a lot of businesses that are very successful and you sell these businesses just Amazon FBA. We got someone in my inner circle that bought I think 3 businesses from you guys already. Joe: 3. Scott: Big businesses too; crazy amounts. I mean one of them is doing like 6,000 units a day like insane. Joe: Yeah. Scott: And you know what I mean? So it's massive. So the potential there is huge but also I look at like there's a little bit of risk there because if that channel decides to go away or they shut your account down there is a potential. So I want to build a back end support there in some kind. So I want to start building content. I want to start getting my own traffic so that way there I could lead people over to my Shopify store or I could leave people over to my channel if something shall happen. Now if it doesn't; great, keep using that. And I don't; I never tell anyone not to use the channel. Use the channel. Leverage the heck out of it. Drive traffic to Amazon. Build up your rankings. Do all of that stuff. But I do think that having your own email list is a must. I think having your own content, your own home base I call it; your own blog, your web site so this way you control that asset. And to be honest with you Joe like I'm really interested lately and I think I talked to you about it, content sites to me are never going anywhere. We're always going to have content sites. We're always going to have information that people are going to be searching for. So for me what I'm looking at doing is starting something and building it over the course of 12 to 18 months. Now listen to what I just said there over 12 to 18 months not 3 days or 30 days. It's going to take time for the search engines to kind of pick it up and get it indexed and all that stuff. And if I can build that piece of property like I used to do in the construction days; I find a piece of property, I build a house on it, I get some revenue coming in by renting it out, and then I might want to sell it. That's kind of what I'm thinking about. And there's ways you can do that without even having to launch a physical product until you get to the 12, 18th month. Then you can decide what you want to do. But you can start getting revenue coming in from affiliate offers, from AdThrive, Mediavine, any of these other networks just from the content coming in. So for people that say I can't get started because I don't have the capital, I don't have the know-how, I don't have the time, do something like even if it's just building out a content site over the next 12 months do that. Just do that. Joe: Yeah I think again taking action, right? Scott: Yeah. Joe: We just got to say that whole lot here; the take action effect. This book as I've read it and as I've talked to you, you are an interesting mix of inspiration and how-to; and you are the book. That's what emanates. You call it a pivot I call it it is what you are, you're inspiring people to go beyond their current capabilities or to get started and take some action but you're also teaching them how to do it. So it's a nice blend of both and was that the main objective of the book itself? Scott: It was actually a little bit difficult and to be honest with you Joe because I didn't want to just be let me show you how to start a business. I wanted it to be for someone also that has a 7 figure business right now that are 100% dependent on Amazon they read the book and they go oh I can do all of these other things and then probably bring in more revenue, bring in more traffic, get a better multiple when I go to Joe Valley and Quiet Light. So I was looking at two different paths. So as you're reading the book you're going to hear me talk about if you're feeling stuck at your corporate job right now and you feel like you can't get out of it here's what you could do but if you already have a business you should do this too. So it's kind of like you're serving two camps. And it was kind of hard when I was going down that path because I wanted to really talk to both people not just the person starting. Joe: Yeah and I think it's an important message for both. For those that have bought a business that want to diversify beyond Amazon and those that are listening to their spouse and that spouse is saying honey we've got a great gig here you've got health insurance and a retirement plan are you crazy you're going to buy an Amazon business and [inaudible 00:34:05.8]. No, you teach them how to do something on the side as a side hustle and let it grow and take less risk but still have that that additional income down the road or a decent exit as well which boosts the retirement plan. Right, Scott? The book itself again folks it's called The Take Action Effect; Mr. Scott Voelker from The Amazing Seller and beyond. The beyond card is you just do so many other things. How do people find the book; where can they go, what do they need to do to get this in their hands and learn everything you've talked about? Scott: Yeah, just go to TakeActionEffect.com and there's just a simple page there. It'll tell you a little bit more about the book and it'll lead you over to most likely Amazon you get paperback hardcover or the Kindle; pretty affordable to be able to take this information. I don't think people are taking the value in a book is much as they should. It is a way for you to really understand me and my story but also who I've helped and who I want to help. And it allows us to start that relationship because I'm all about relationships. And I want to be able to build a relationship with you way before you would ever hire me or come to one of my workshops or inner circle or whatever. And this book is a way to do it. It's a really, really small investment to be able to really get you thinking differently because the way I look at it Joe is we're installing the Take Action mindset. We're taking this to where you think you know what I don't think I can do this and by the time you get done with even the first; probably quarter of the book you're going to feel like you're going to conquer the world. And that's what it's really all about. Now, Joe, before I do end this I'm going to ask you a question. Joe: Yes? Scott: I want to know one of your take action moments. Joe: Okay. Scott: What's something that you can recall that you're like if that never happened my life would be totally different. Joe: Let's see. Well going back to your vision board I did something very similar once upon a time and it was a Tony Robbins program writing down my goals and envisioning what they are. And I literally; and this is I described my life; I put it all down from the lifestyle that I wanted to live and the type of woman I wanted to marry. Lo, and behold within 6 months I met her. Scott: Wow. Joe: I showed her the list maybe 18 months later and it described her to a T. So that is a Take Action moment for me in terms of writing that list down. Now it changed over the years in terms of my goals. At one point I wanted to have the boat in the harbor in Portland Maine. Well, I live in North Carolina right now that's not really going to happen. And I didn't want it once I had kids. I couldn't really spend much time with them on a boat in that situation. The other one Scott when I'm at Brand Accelerator Live is; I mentioned it before we started recording, is that I have taken action on moving forward with my book as well. We're not going to talk too much about it. I'm going to drop a little hint in here and then I'll be quiet for 12 months. But it's something that I've talked about for many years and I've tried and I've tried and I just haven't gotten it done. And you've inspired me to get it done. And some of your tips in the book itself have allowed me to sort of bullet point what I need to do to take more action and get it done; so two impacts right there and I think is going to make a huge difference for me. But again it's not always; like Rachel says it's not always about me or her. It's about how you can help others as well. And I think you're doing that. You're helping others first and it's benefiting you. And I think it's the best way to go about it. So thank you, Scott, for being my friend, for being my colleague, for being on the Quiet Light podcast. I hope to see you on it again. Scott: Thank you so much, Joe. I appreciate it, man. Links and Resources: The Take Action Effect Scott's Website Scott's Podcast Scott's YouTube Channel
As bloggers, it can be tricky to know how to use ads on your site, what ads you should use, and what types of content will bring you the most ad revenue. So let's explore how to increase your income with online ads. Ad income is beneficial for bloggers because it's passive income. I am a huge believer in finding ways to grow your income without increasing your workload. The ad company we use on our site, Catch My Party, is Ad Thrive, and it's been a great fit for us. AdThrive is a premium ad company. My guest today is Paul Bannister, Executive Vice President at Ad Thrive. We talk about what a company like Ad Thrive is looking for in terms of its bloggers and publishers, why ad revenue is important, what kind of content will grow your traffic, and the latest trends in the online ad business. If you are a blogger who wants to learn more about using ads, I think this episode will be a great tool for you! What You Need as a Blogger to Join Ad Thrive Paul and his company look for bloggers who have original content, a clean site, and who view their blog as their business, not a hobby. They want bloggers with a good history of content and a strong audience. Ad Thrive has minimum monthly page views of 100K in order to consider working with a blogger. If you are getting more than 100K page views a month, it will be evident that your blog is more than a hobby to you. How Digital Ad Agencies Work There are various types of ad networks. Some focus on connecting as many bloggers to brands as possible. There are other ad agencies that want to focus on a specific niche, such as healthcare. Using Google AdSense can be nice since they are a big name and you can easily add ads to your site even if your blog is small. As your blog gets bigger, an ad network like Ad Thrive can bring in ad agencies from all across the industry, not just Google-related. Ad Thrive makes their business decisions based on what is best for the bloggers they work with. Can You Make a Living Off of Ads on Your Blog? If you are a blogger with 100K page views, you are not going to be able to quit all your other jobs and live off your ad revenue. Not only is it not feasible, but Ad Thrive is big on their publishers having several different revenue streams. It is always a good idea to have several sources of income, no matter where you are in your blogger stage. Ads can be a big part of that revenue, but you need something to fall back on should your ad revenue dry up. Your niche will also affect how well your ads do. Travel and personal finance are great niches for ad income. How to Grow Blog Traffic Traffic is crucial to ad income, because the more traffic you have, the more ad income you earn. But we all know that growing traffic isn't easy these days. *(Which is why you need a tool like MiloTree!) The best way to grow your blog traffic is to be great at something. If you understand Pinterest and do really well marketing your blog there, keep it up. If email is your jam, use your email list to the best of your ability. Focus on what you're best at and stay in that space for a while. Site Speed Matters Sire speed matters, particularly for SEO. Anything you add to your blog is going to affect your site speed. You should have the overarching view of, “What is on my page and how is it serving my audience?” So, you need to think of the tradeoff of the new content or ad that you're publishing and how it will affect your site speed. If your site is slow to load, the person who found you on Google search is probably going to bounce away from your page to one that loads faster. Each ad has a slight effect on your site speed. The first ad is going to have the most impact, and after that the impact is minimal. How to Find an Ad Network Let's say you're a blogger. You have no ads on your site currently, but after listening to this episode, you're ready to jump into the ad game. Where do you start? What should you look for in an ad network? One of the first things to do is to read reviews from other entrepreneurs who have used a specific ad company. If you know someone who has ads on their site, as them if they're pleased with the ad agency they're using. Checking out other sites or businesses that are using a specific ad company is a good way to get a feel for that company's values. There is a tool called Built With that will show you which ad networks the site is working with. Your ad network is a big revenue stream, but it is also a big part of the user experience. You want to make sure that the ad company you use matches the experience you want your readers to have. Where You as a Blogger Should Focus Your Business Bloggers wear a million hats, so it can be hard to know where you should put the majority of your focus. Paul believes in focusing on the thing you are the best at first. Pick the content you are good at creating and create more of that. Which audience do you completely understand? Talk to them more. Pick the revenue source that you are good at building and focus on that. Different people are good at different things, so knowing yourself and what motivates you is the best place to start. The folks at AdThrive are very much focused on the future, whether that's 3 months from now or 3 years down the road. Their goal is to “future proof” what they offer their publishers. We here at MiloTree and Catch My Party recommend that if you are interested, you reach out to Ad Thrive at info@adthrive.com. Read the podcast transcript for “How to Best Understand the World Of Online Ads” Imagine a world where growing your social media followers and email list was easy… It can be with MiloTree! Try the MiloTree pop-up app on your blog for 30 days risk-free! Are you serious about growing your online business? Have you got some traffic but you know you need more? Let your MiloTree pop-ups help you get to that next level by turning your visitors into email subscribers and social media followers on Instagram, Pinterest, Facebook, and YouTube. Sign up today! Install your MiloTree pop-ups on your site in under two minutes. Sign up for MiloTree now and get your first 30 DAYS FREE! TIMESTAMP Intro 4:25 Content Requirements for Ad Thrive 6:20 How Ad Agencies Work 11:15 Making A Living Off Ads 15:35 Growing Traffic 18:45 Site Speed Matters 25:20 How To Find An Ad Network 27:10 Where You as a Blogger Should Focus 29:10 The Future of Ads TOP 4 TAKEAWAYS If you want to work with an ad agency, create plenty of original content, design a blog with clean lines, and concentrate on making your blog a business, not a hobby. Don't count on ad income as being your sole source of revenue; multiple streams of income is always a smart move. Grow your blog traffic by being great at something and doing more of it. When looking for the perfect ad agency, ask other bloggers who they prefer and read reviews online.
Wouldn’t it be great to have passive income rolling into your bank account regularly? Of course! Is it really possible to leverage your email list and home base to bring in additional revenue? On this episode of The Amazing Seller, you’ll hear from Scott as he explains why email list building is so important, how to utilize a Facebook fan page, why you should attend Brand Accelerator Live, and much more. If you are ready to unleash the full potential of your ecommerce business, this is the episode for you! Your most important asset. What is the state of your email list? Do you have an email list big enough to drive traffic and sales for your ecommerce business? If not, you need to make expanding that list a top priority! As you build your business, remember what Scott always says, “Your email list is your most important asset.” If you find your brand is struggling to get the momentum you had hoped for, you might want to start investing in your email list. To hear more about this important topic, make sure to catch this helpful episode! Know your audience! Do you know your target audience inside and out? Where do they spend their time online? Are they more active on Facebook or Instagram? If you don’t know your audience, how do you expect to reach them? Scott has developed key practices that sellers like you can use to connect with and reach your audience. If you haven’t already, make sure to check out the Ecom Business Formula book that Scott has created for TAS followers like you! Learn more about reaching your target audience on this episode of The Amazing Seller - you don’t want to miss it! Brand Accelerator Live As a small business owner, you are used to investing a ton of resources into your fledgeling business but have you done much to invest in your personal development? When was the last time you finished a business book or a course to help you improve your leadership skills? One of the best ways to hone your skills and pick up a few new ones is by attending a live event. These are the type of events that give you insights you might have never considered - so what are you waiting for? Grab your ticket to Brand Accelerator Live by checking out the link in the resources section below! OUTLINE OF THIS EPISODE OF THE AMAZING SELLER [0:03] Scott’s introduction to this episode of the podcast! [5:20] Email list building REALLY works. [9:20] Make sure to create a Facebook fan page and a homepage. [14:00] Scott explains how they’ve been able to convert traffic to income. [19:20] Do you know your audience? [21:40] Action steps you can use. [26:30] Closing thoughts from Scott. RESOURCES MENTIONED IN THIS EPISODE www.theamazingseller.com/live www.theamazingseller.com/buildlist AdThrive www.ecombizbook.com
One of the misconceptions people have about Quiet Light is that we do more e-commerce than content transactions. Fun fact, our top two transactions ever have been content and SaaS deals. Our guest today, Bruno Bornsztein, is a web entrepreneur who has conquered the content domain via his two websites, Curbly, and Mandmade DIY. Bruno is what we like to call an “old school” entrepreneur, someone who successfully combines his own web development expertise with entrepreneurship. Equal parts content creator, developer, businessman, and design aficionado, Bruno got his start during the wild west days of the influencer platform. Nowadays, he's in the process of launching a new SaaS product to make success more fluid for influencers. Episode Highlights: The starting up of Curbly, the monetization, and the changes the site took on over the years. At what point the site started publishing sponsored posts for large companies and how these companies found him. We delve into the world of influencer marketing and how Bruno built a brand, rather than an individual, that then became the influencer. We discuss how influencers should pull back from the spotlight rather than build that personal brand that cannot operate without their personal daily input. The metrics that exist to measure the influencer impact. Bruno talks about his transition from a content site to building his Influencer Kit Saas tool and the phase the product is in now. The potential challenges in scaling The Influencer Kit quickly to meet market need. The target clients for The Influencer Kit tool. Transcription: Joe: Mark, one of the things that I think is a bit of a misnomer here about Quiet Light is people think that we do much more e-commerce physical product business brokering than we do content. And in fact the largest transaction I've ever done, the top two have been content and SaaS. And I understand you had a friend of yours, Bruno from one of your Mastermind groups on to talk about both that … just both content and a new SaaS business that he's got from his own content site. Can you chat about that? Mark: Yeah of course. Yeah, Bruno … the guy is an old school entrepreneur and I'm doing air quotes right now for old school because in the world of the Internet is there an old school yeah? But in my opinion, he's old school because the guy started out developing his own stuff. When he started his first business Curbly.com which is a home improvement blog. He developed the code himself, designed everything, and then he was writing the blog post as well. And now that he's transitioning into a new SaaS product called InfluenceKit he's once again developing the code on the backend and doing pretty much everything on his own and lives in that world of web development plus entrepreneurialism. A super, super smart guy when it comes to that side of it. So he and I actually … this podcast is really just he and I catching up online and walking down memory lane. But there were a couple of things that came out of this that I thought were fascinating. And one thing that I love about his business Curbly, and there's a couple of other guys that I talked to here local to me in the content world, is they're treating their businesses like influencers and they actually talk about it as influencer marketing. And I don't know about you Joe but I … when I think of an influencer I think of that 21 year old model wearing sneakers and putting them on Instagram and getting paid just to post wearing those sneakers or is just like that right? The personality based influencers. But what these guys are doing is they have their blogs which are completely irrelevant to their personality and I'm not … calling it a blog might be a little bit meaning because it has so much more content than that but these sites are influential. They have lots of followers for what they're doing and large companies are coming to them and paying them to use their products and write about those products through to their sites. So when you look at a content site we often think well how do you monetize that? Well there is AdThrive, there's Google AdSense, and maybe you charge for advertising but these guys are generating quite a bit more money by getting these sponsored posts. So Bruno and I talked a lot about that. We talked about how did he get into this in the first place with these sponsored posts, how did he attract some of these larger advertisers which are obviously paying quite a bit to have these sponsored posts. But then we talked about his next venture which is getting into that SaaS base. He realized that these companies that were paying him to do these sponsored posts, they wanted good metrics. They wanted to know how many people were clicking on the post and viewing them, how many people were sharing these posts. And so he develops offer internally for that reporting, now he's developing a full on SaaS product and we talked about how do you grow a new SaaS business the right way because everyone thinks … and I'm sure you've seen this Joe in the SaaS community, you kind of have this idea of all right you create your product, get the right fit, and then just scale, scale, scale, scale, scale, right? Well, not always right? And he wants to make sure that he scales the right way and has a really good product market fit. Joe: Yeah I think doing it slow and doing it right is much more important than trying to get big … too big too fast because you make mistakes and lose good customers along the way because they'll go somewhere else. I love the sounds of this because as you said most of the content sites that we've brokered are using AdSense and AdThrive and things of that nature. Even the largest one that I did was and there's not a whole lot of sponsored posts that are driving revenue. So I think that's fantastic and I love the off shoot of an entrepreneur telling his story or her story about how they had another business, in this case, the SaaS product to serve those customers that were doing sponsored posts. So I think it's great. Let's go to it. Mark: Hey Bruno thanks for joining me. I really appreciate you taking the time here for a quick conversation. You and I are local to each other. We meet up once every few months with a couple of other guys and just talk shop so it's kind of weird to be talking to you. Bruno: I know we should almost just get together in the same spot, right? Mark: That would have been good planning on my part and you know I don't do necessarily great planning all the time. So we have a little tradition here at the Quiet Light podcast where we have our guest introduce themselves. We like to say it's because you know yourself better than I do but really it's just because I don't do show prep so— Bruno: Sure. Guess what I didn't do any show prep either so I think I could probably introduce you better than me. So my name is … as you know my entrepreneurial, Bornsztein. I'm a local St. Paul guy like you are. And my background is in publishing online and web development. So I'm really a web developer who got into running digital content sites for a long time. So what that looks like is I launched a blog called Curbly.com in 2006 and another blog called ManMade DIY in 2010. I ran those for 10 years or more and in the last couple years I've been focusing on a new project called InfluenceKit which is a Software as a Service product that's targeted at digital influencers, content creators, basically people like who I used to be. Mark: Right now you come from this kind of old school or what I consider to be old school Internet entrepreneur. And I used to fall in this category. The first business that I built online, I built the code and I built it in Pearl if you can believe that and I didn't know a lick of code but I figured it out. You're still doing that to this day though, right? I mean like InfluenceKit it's a SaaS product you're building; we'll talk about that in a minute. You're doing most of the development on that. Bruno: Yeah I'm the lead developer for InfluenceKit. I was also lead technical person for my content sites which was good and bad. There's upsides and downsides to being technical like that. I like you, learned to do a lot of this stuff a long time ago when the way that you were to do web development was usually do source. So a lot of things I learned was just by looking at another site, looking at the source, trying to pick apart how it worked. Fortunately, that process has gotten a lot more easier now so there's a lot more resources out there for people to learn how to become web developers. But yeah I definitely like being involved in the technical side. I think the challenge for me is figuring out when to disengage from that and how much I should be involved and how much I need to try to delegate. So that's definitely something that I'm working on. Mark: Yeah. Alright so I want to start out and I want to break this conversation into two parts, I want to talk about InfluenceKit and what you're building there in the SaaS realm but I want to talk also about Curbly and ManMade DIY is that right? Okay. You and also I know some of the other guys that we know have a model with their content sites. I think a lot of people when they hear content sites are just thinking okay I'm going to put something up. I'm going to put on pass a bad network and just kind of run from there but you guys do quite a bit more. Tell me a little bit about starting up Curbly and maybe the beginning story of that and then what its primary means of monetization has been over the years. Bruno: Yeah it's actually kind of an interesting story because it wasn't really intended to be a blog. The way Curbly came about was this: I was doing freelance web development; I took a contract building a social network, this was in 2005. This was before Facebook was publicly available to everybody. You still had to have an EDU address to get in. And this network that we built was intended to kind of like compete with that in some sense. After that project was done I had some time on my hands, a little bit of money saved up, so a friend of mine and I decided to build something and being the sort of non-strategic person that I am we just kind of … it was a little bit random; I had bought a house, I was working in my house that was kind of an area that interested me so somehow without a whole lot of forethought we came on this idea of a social network for home improvement. The idea that Curbly was meant to be was a social network UGC site … User Generated Content site that all was focused around the home, design … I'm remodeling my kitchen here's pictures of what I want to do, I'm looking for ideas for my bathroom does anybody have some? It sounds a lot like a site you've probably heard of which is House. House is that. I think we wanted Curbly to be House, we just didn't really know it at that time. So what ended up happening was Curbly sort of organically transitioned into something else. When we started the site we built it really quickly in about six weeks, the MBP of it. And the first thing was well we don't have any content on here how are people going to want to like join this social network when there's nothing there. So we just posted for it; freelance writers on Craigslist and had people start kind of seeing content. And that was not because we wanted to be a publisher or a media company but because we just wanted something on the site. But over the first three or four years it just kind of … I realized that there was a business model there and that was easier actually than trying to become House. And for a variety of reasons turning into House just like didn't happen. But I learned that actually there was a way of generating high quality content for a reasonable price using freelancers and in monetizing that. So yeah over the course we were really lucky with Curbly. I think in our first month we went from zero to 250,000 patrons a month. Mark: Wait, wait halt. What? How did you do that? Was it all organic SEO or were you keying in on other—? Bruno: No it was luck. We got to be lucky, we got on Dig, we got on … remember Dig? Mark: I remember Dig. I got Dig to the front page maybe twice in my life. Bruno: We got on Dig, we got on a few other things; Life Hacker it was a big blog back then and they posted a link to one of our project that somebody posted. Yeah, it was just lucky. I talk about this a lot … like sometimes if you would ask me at the time in November or December 2006 after Curbly had been live for two months like how things were going I would've been … I would think I would have said uhh I don't know, it's okay not great. And I just think I talk to a lot of like younger entrepreneurs about this a lot which is that at the beginning it's really hard to know whether you're succeeding or failing especially if you don't have any experience. So the way I'd phrase that is success or failure look the same a lot of times when you're just starting out. And it's really about experience and context. So at the time, our goal was to build House, right? And so we wanted 250,000 users to sign up to Curbly because that's … active users was the metric we were looking at. And because we didn't have that, because we weren't seeing that it was kind of like what are we doing wrong? It's not working. Not really appreciating that we had actually been really successful in another way that we didn't understand. So I think for anybody who's … is entrepreneurial but maybe hasn't done a lot of things before just remember that you maybe … it may be very difficult to disentangle whether you're succeeding or failing you just don't … you might not have enough experience to really know the difference. Mark: Yeah I know with Quiet Light it was the same thing. For the first five, six, seven years of Quiet Light I did the same thing and people would ask me like well what are your plans and I'm like I don't know I might just make a boutique and not really do much more with it or I might just kind of wind it down over the next few years. But I just kept kind of going and going and going and it wasn't until I really went to hire Jason on initially, Jason Yellowitz, that I was kind of like there might actually be something here that I wasn't expecting. But you're right, success and failure do look the same. At the beginning at least they can look the same. When did you start taking on these sponsored posts and just to be clear for everyone listening you do have like AdThrive and stuff like that that you monetize through but a big bulk of your revenue is coming from getting sponsored posts from major companies like Home Depot and other large companies that are looking at your traffic, at your audience and saying we want that audience so we're going to pay you to test this product or to be able to feature this product in one of your DIY stuff. When did you start making that transition? Bruno: Yeah 2009 was the very first sponsored thing that we ever did. So that was very early on. It was with a fabric company who I won't name but it was kind of a failure for a variety of different reasons. But it was the first time we got paid just to create content on behalf of a brand. And then it ramped up. So I would say in 2009, 0% of our revenue was sponsored content or influencer marketing [is what it's called now and 100% was … you know the rest about probably 95% was programmatic display ads and the rest was affiliate links. And then back then it was even okay to do text links. That quickly went sour but there was a period where it was okay to have text links on your site. And then probably by 2016, 50% of our revenue became sponsored content. So it did sort of take a little while to ramp up. And it took a while before we started seeing interest from established brands and agencies. But definitely by 2012, 2013 you are starting to get pitches from PR agencies, brands, ad agencies that were interested in partnering with you to talk about their products. Mark: So what changed for those agencies to start recognizing you? Did you have to do outreach for that or was it really just them picking up on the metrics that you guys were supporting at the time? Bruno: You know I think a little of both. I definitely started doing … being proactive once I saw that there was an opportunity to make real money there. And so definitely being proactive, reaching out to people even just replying, you know we always got … as any kind of publisher, you're always going to get a lot of press releases and inquiries and people that want you to talk about their thing. So by proactive, I even mean just replying to those and saying like hey you know we're not necessarily going to cover this product this month but if you're interested in sponsored content we have these opportunities. So just being like a lot more responsive and offering that. I think on their side they didn't really start seeing metrics until much later. Even today a lot of influencer marketing happens with very little metric reporting which is something that InfluenceKit is trying to change. But I don't know that it was that they started seeing big metrics I think it was that the people that were working in those organizations were more digitally native. Like they understood that landscape more. In 2009 I mean I … in 2009 I had people who didn't know what a blog was. There were still people who are like what's a blog, why would I … how do you make money on it, how would you … why would a company pay to have their content on it or whatever? By 2016 that wasn't happening anymore. Everybody knew what a blog was. Everybody knew what social media was. And so the idea that a brand would want to communicate with your audience just made more sense. They understood that like okay blogs are a real thing. They have a real audience. They're communicating … they're able to communicate your message and help you get your branding out there. And so I think it just became a little bit easier to convince them of that. Mark: Yeah it reminds me of … do you remember Darren Rowse from ProBlogger? Bruno: Yeah. Mark: He was kind of the big guy who was making all the push of saying you know what these blogs you can actually make a lot of money with them. Bruno: Yeah. Mark: A bit at the forefront of this movement. We're getting in this weird, wild world of influencer marketing something which I know very, very little about personally. And I think one of the interesting observations here … and I'm sure a lot of people listening are kind of like well yeah, of course, Mark just kind of get with the program but it's the idea that I think influencers I think that Instagram person, right? Up on Instagram on and it's the person themselves and they're making sure that all the pictures have the same colors in them and fit the 3 by 3 matrix that they want to have so it looks all nice. But Curbly itself was the influencer in this in this situation. Bruno: Right. Mark: So you built a brand that was an influencer. Bruno: Yeah. Yes. So Curbly always was … Curbly never had a … it was never a personality driven site and that helped us in some ways and hurt us in some ways. But yes in our case it was much more about the site than any individual person contributing to the site. Because our site was driven by people like freelancers and a few staff people that were creating the content. But in general yeah there is much … you do seem more of like the individual sort of pseudo celebrity influencer although there is a lot more out there than just that. There are a lot of sites out there that aren't so tied to the individual that's running them that's really more about the content that they create and the audience that they are able to pull together. Mark: Yeah [inaudible 00:18:39.7] anything about like the other guys who are now over [inaudible 00:18:42.4], right? Totally the same sort of thing where they can do that and be a full blogger pro as well right and all the brands that he and Lindsey have as well which is so influential for what they do. Bruno: I think a lot of bloggers and digital content creators that I talk to this is a topic that comes up because in terms of selling sponsored content it can be easier if you are sort of a known personality. But in terms of actually having that be your business not … first, not everybody wants to do that because it is difficult to have … to be that kind of an influencer you really have to expose so much of your personal life and really be vulnerable and that's not for everybody. Not everybody wants to do that. And then just from a … strictly from a sort of business strategy point of view, it's not always smart to make the business so reliant on you. You may be a huge Instagram influencer bringing down a lot of money through your influencer contracts but what do you do when you want to sell that business? That's a really hard business to get out of. It's a really hard business to cut back because if you want to say like scale back your work or you have a family or a kid who's going to take over that role? So I have talked to a lot of those types of influencers about like how can you sort of start to pull yourself back. How can you supplement your business and make it a little bit more sustainable and not so reliant on you as a person? Mark: Yeah absolutely. That's the same advice that we would give anybody out there is that I totally get the appeal of a building a personal brand. And I think a lot of people start with that in mind. Like I'm going to build a brand around myself, I'm going to be the celebrity. But then you get to the point where like this is a lot of work and I've been growing it for five years and I'm tired of posting my life for the public to see every single day and so how do you convert that over to an actual business? It can be done and I've seen a few cases where people have done it but it's a process. Bruno: It is and I just think it's something that … you know because so many of these businesses do start off as hobbies or side projects it's not something that people think about right away but I think it is important to think about. You need to start thinking about it as a business, building a team that can support you. If you need to be the face of the brand okay that might be fine as long as you are thinking about it and I'm also thinking about how that might affect your ability like you said to sell a business or change your involvement in the business. Mark: Yeah. Alright, let's talk a little bit about the influencer marketing side of it and the metrics and just kind of moves into what you're doing now with InfluenceKit. You said it yourself there's not a lot of metrics that were necessarily expected from the people or even deliverable for the people that were paying for these sponsored posts. What have you done there and maybe through Curbly or that you just kind of learned over the years that's really helpful for somebody paying for a sponsored post to start to key in on in terms of those metrics. Bruno: Yeah I mean really where this came out of was like I said around 2016 we started doing a lot of sponsored content. And the first problem we had was just producing it efficiently. Not even reporting on it but just like honestly making sure that we did everything we promised we would do. I mean I know it sounds kind of silly but when you're doing … I think that we were probably doing three blog posts a day on Curbly, we're doing something like four or five sponsored projects or campaigns a month on Curbly. That's just a lot of moving parts. Like did we … are we supposed to do Instagram for Home Depot and how many pins were we supposed to do and what was the blog post supposed to include and is it cap is it the Home Depot or just Home Depot? I mean these are all little details but it makes of a difference when you start working with those brands because they expect a level of professionalism and you want to deliver that. So that was the first problem it was like okay we just don't have a good system for this. And that's kind of where the precursor to InfluenceKit came. It was just an internal tool that I built to help our team. Just to help everybody keep on the same page, what we have to do, when is it due, did we do it; simple right? And we used that. We used that tool for a long time. We used it both for our sponsor content but also for our editorial planning. It was great. It was really helpful. Then at 2017, 2018 I started thinking like man, we're just not doing a very good job of showing these sponsors their ROI of what we did for them. Like they're paying us money, we're getting good deals, we're getting as much money as we think we should be getting, we're creating this really good content but that's kind of where it stops. And I realized that that was a weakness. And so then I started looking at well how can we report, how can we go back and report on this? Doing it manually sucks and I'm somebody like if I do something twice I never want to have to do it again. Like once I've done something twice I'm like okay I should build something. So that's where InfluenceKit came out of. And it really just lets you automate the reporting piece of that process. So that for us, when we're doing, say four sponsored campaigns a month each of those campaigns might have four or five separate deliverables; things that we have to deliver back to the brand and report on. That's 20 different things. We can just dump those on to InfluenceKit and send the brand a report. So yeah I mean that's kind of where we're at now. The industry as a whole is really kind of still up in the air, people are starting to ask for a lot more metrics but not all. And that's kind of part of my mission with InfluenceKit is. I want to see every blogger doing this. I think it's to their benefit and I think that the biggest benefit is going to be when the industry realizes that there is reporting on this stuff they're going to start opening the floodgates. And by that I mean there's going to be a lot more money coming in and available to do this kind of stuff because they can actually measure the results. Mark: Let's talk about InfluenceKit … and I love the transition here. You've been doing content, sponsored posts, all these and then internally like you said if you do something twice you want to build a tool for it and you started building the tool and it starts evolving and the next thing you know you have on your hands what could easily become a SaaS application which is what you are really focusing on right now. So you just finished an [inaudible 00:25:03.5] you just finished a kind of an introductory like get in the door sort of program with InfluenceKit for a limited number of people and you're in the testing stage with them right now is that right? Bruno: Yeah so we're essentially in a sort of like a pre-launch phase right now we're letting in a very limited number of people. And that's really … that's not because you know we're snooty or anything it's just there's we're a very small team. It's myself and two other co-founders. And I think that we want to get it right. We're trying to figure out and I think all SaaS apps probably deal with this but what's the growth rate that we actually think we can achieve and we actually can support. I think that there might be a little bit of a misconception that you just like want to grow as fast as you can as soon as you can like just grow, grow, grow, grow. I don't know but I don't want to do that you know. I want to grow this business at a rate that is sustainable that we can actually keep up with. I don't want to be working nights and weekends right now. So yeah we are … where we are is we're letting people in. We're kind of testing out the product with them making improvements and changes based on early customer feedback and then figuring out okay now what? Like we think we have product market fit, we spent about six months kind of convincing ourselves that that's the case and now it's like okay well how do we figure out how to grow and like I said at what rate we want to try to grow at. Mark: So a couple of questions that can come to mind here, I'll ask the easier one first and that is you talked about not wanting to necessarily just grow as fast you can, scale as fast as you can. What are some of the restraints that you're seeing that if you were to open it back up and … our of millions of listeners are listening to this podcast and they start knocking on your door and they're like hey we want in Bruno, we want in. What are some of the challenges that you guys would have in scaling quickly? Bruno: Oh man I would say first of all let's just back up and obviously it would be a great problem to have that million and millions of people— Mark: It's a good problem to have millions of listeners as well. Bruno: You know I'm not like that and so I don't want to just make that assumption. Obviously, we need to work really hard still to even have that problem. But what are the scaling problems? I think the first scaling problem would be people. SaaS apps at least ours, I suppose I should speak for everyone but ours are still pretty heavily dependent on people. You really need to support people, you need customer support, you need onboarding. There's still a lot of time that goes into it and so that would be the first problem. Then with that comes a bunch of other problems like scaling an organization so that you're building … yes, you're building a product but you're also building a company. And in some sense, the company is like the more important product because if you can build a good solid organization then you'll do other good things and good products will come out of that. So we're really trying to be conscious of that like okay if we suddenly had to hire three customer support people how would we do that? How would we train them? How would we all stay on task? So I think scaling up people would be a big constraint. From a tech point of view for sure, there are some things we'd run into as well. InfluenceKit, in particular, relies on a lot of API's so … and for the non-technical people that just means we have to go out and grab stats from a bunch of different sources; Facebook, Instagram, Google Analytics. All of that takes server time. All of those API's have rate limits. Whenever you're building software you know doing something at a small scale and then just like growing it to a bigger scale is not as easy as just … it's not like we multiply things linearly. Things get way more complicated, way more difficult to debug. And that's not to say that I'm not excited about solving those problems; I am. But yeah I want to do it in a sane way. I think if we were to suddenly add … if we were suddenly to triple our user base like in a month I would be spending a lot of late nights doing things that I don't want to be doing. Mark: I totally understand that. Building the organization side I think is really important. Whenever you're scaling anything at all having that foundation to be able to scale on is crucial because you will just completely buckle under the weight of growing rapidly. Who's the client for InfluenceKit? Who are you trying to target? Obviously, digital creators would make sense but it's not just mom bloggers. Bruno: So we think of our customer as professional bloggers. I know that when we started out you kind of mentioned when you think of influencers you think Instagram and for sure you know that's legit but as we talked about and we talked about this a lot who we can picture as our customer it's somebody whose primary platform is content creation on a website that they own and their social platforms are supplementary to that. And when I say professional I mean like if they're making their living off of this, like they're supporting their family. They might even have an employee or two. We look at it anywhere from there up to what you might consider more like a small media organization; a site that has five or 10 or 20 employees. Beyond that, you don't think about that really as our market so much because at that scale there are other tools for those people and you don't really want to swim in those waters. So that's really who we think about and the interesting thing is that we've started hearing from a lot of agencies and brands about this. Really not our plan but what's happening is influencers are sending reports to their sponsors; the people that are paying them and then we're hearing from them saying we could use this. A great problem to have, it's a little bit like of an existential mini crisis for us because we're all in front … we come from this background, we're bloggers, we set out really with a mission to build a tool to help empower people like us and we don't want to just like pivot and start serving a completely different market at the same time. I mean when you have people asking to use your thing and who wanted to pay you, you need to listen. So we're trying to navigate that and see how we can do it. Mark: Alright that sounds like a really good problem to have and sounds as well like we maybe pivoting down the road into matching influencers as well. Not to plan your path for you but it just seems like a natural extension that might be happening as well. Cool. Well, I really appreciate you coming on the podcast here talking about some of these things and I think we probably could have broken this up into two because just thinking about all the questions to deal with on the sell side. If I ask another question now we'd go on for 15 more minutes. Bruno: Okay. Mark: So I'm going to stop it now and I'm going to say I want to have you back to check in as you get past that kind of first initial enrollment and talk about how things have all been in this influencer space. I love the idea and just thinking about influencers outside of the Instagram model, thinking about it more in terms of a brand and just kind of this story is … well, it's fantastic so thanks so much for coming on. Bruno: Alright. Yeah thanks for having me. I'd be glad to come back and chat with you here on that episode. Mark: Alright. Looking forward to meet up with you. See you again soon. Bruno: Alright sounds good. Thanks, Mark. Links and Resources: Curbly Mandmade DIY
What will it take to get your ecommerce business in front of one million people? Do you have any idea how to make that happen? If you don’t, you are in the right place! On this episode of The Amazing Seller, you’ll hear from Scott as he explains how they were able to reach one million people on Facebook for FREE. You read that right; it’s not a typo! Don’t put this episode on the back burner; this is one you can’t afford to miss. Have pen a paper ready; you are going to need it! Make sure to put yourself out there! If you want to reach one million people on Facebook like Scott’s brand did, you’ve got to be willing to put yourself out there. What does it look like to put yourself out there? Start creating content! You don’t have to have all the right equipment or the perfect message; you just have to start creating content. Don’t worry, you’ll learn and adapt your approach as you go, but you’ll never reach the people you want to reach if you don’t take a step into the unknown. Learn more about creating content by listening to this helpful episode of The Amazing Seller! Be open to new partnerships. Did you know that one of the best ways to increase your reach is by connecting with other brands and influencers? It’s true! If you can build up content and engagement for your brand, you’ll likely attract other brands as Scott did. If you think about it, it is similar to brands hiring a celebrity spokesperson. While it is smart to be cautious, be open to a mutually beneficial partnership that would help both brands. To hear what this type of partnership looks like, make sure to listen to this episode of The Amazing Seller, you don’t want to miss it! Don’t forget to build your email list. If you’ve been around the TAS community for very long, you know that Scott is passionate about helping sellers like you realize their need to build an email list. Have you done it yet? If not, what are you waiting for? As your business grows and gets increasingly dependent on Facebook, YouTube, Instagram, and the rest to get your message out, what would happen if one of those channels fails? Would your revenue stream suffer a significant setback? What if you could turn to an asset like an email list to connect directly with your customers? You can! Learn more about the value of creating and maintaining robust engagement with your email list by listening to this episode of The Amazing Seller. OUTLINE OF THIS EPISODE OF THE AMAZING SELLER [0:03] Scott’s introduction to this episode of the podcast! [3:50] Put yourself out there on the marketplace. [7:50] How turning on Ads can help you bring in revenue. [14:45] Five ways increased traffic grows your brand. [17:45] Why you should check out the Ecom Business Formula Book. [19:20] Build your email list! [21:00] Closing thoughts from Scott. RESOURCES MENTIONED IN THIS EPISODE www.ecombizbook.com AdThrive
Is your ecommerce business firing on all cylinders? Are you considering making some changes to your business in 2019? What if there was a way to increase sales and drive traffic for free? On this episode of The Amazing Seller, you’ll hear from Scott and Chris as they dive deep into this important topic. In their conversation, the guys break down why building an email list is so critical, what the actual cost of building an email list is, how an email list gives your brand a unique advantage, and so much more. Don’t miss a minute of this helpful episode! Do give away contests really work? If you’ve been in the ecommerce industry for very long, you’ve probably heard of sellers who use give away contests to get an email list built, but does that really work? Don’t you end up with a bloated list of people who want a free product or prize? While the chances of getting people who are just in it for the prize is a factor to consider, you can limit that issue by giving away a prize or product connected to your target market. If you are going into kyack bass fishing, you shouldn’t run a give away featuring a new iphone! Make sure you are using a giveaway strategy that works by listening to this informative episode of The Amazing Seller! Is an email list worth the cost to build? Have you considered building an email list for your ecommerce brand? What is keeping you from pulling the trigger and building it? Are you worried about the cost that it’ll require? According to Scott, the benefits of building an email list vastly outweigh the costs. With an email list, you can drive sales, spike traffic, launch new channels for your brand, get feedback on what people will buy, and so much more. If you are on the fence about building an email list for your eceommerce brand, this the episode you need to listen to! Attention is the new currency. Did you know that attention is the new currency in today’s ecommerce marketplace? It’s true! If your ecommerce business has established an audience, there is no limit to what you can do to create streams of revenue. From blogging to building out a thriving YouTube channel, if you have people following you, the value of your business goes through the roof! Don’t miss this opportunity to take your business to the next level of growth. To hear more about how to capitalize on an audience you’ve built from the ground up, make sure to listen to this engaging episode of The Amazing Seller! 10 reasons why you should build an email list. How can an asset like an email list help your ecommerce business grow? Does it all come down to luck or is there something that sellers like you can do to properly position your business for long-term success? On this episode of The Amazing Seller, you’ll hear from Scott and Chris as they provide ten reasons why sellers like you should build an email list. You’ll have a loyal list of people who follow your brand. Traffic for your blog, Facebook page, YouTube channel, etc. You get to sell your product to a custom audience. Your list can buy affiliate offers off of your blog. Use a tool like AdThrive to get revenue from your blog traffic. To hear more from Scott and Chris and to get the full list of ten reasons why sellers should build an email list, make sure to listen to this episode! OUTLINE OF THIS EPISODE OF THE AMAZING SELLER [0:03] Scott’s introduction to this episode of the podcast! [5:00] Chris explains the tension between traffic and sales. [8:45] Scott stresses why sellers like you need to build an email list. [12:00] What is the actual cost of building an email list? [15:30] Chris describes the advantage that an email list gives your brand. [20:00] Attention is the new currency. [23:40] Chris goes over the giveaway strategy. [27:40] Scott gives 10 reasons why sellers need to build an email list. [38:00] Closing thoughts from Scott. RESOURCES MENTIONED IN THIS EPISODE www.theamazingseller.com/workshop Quiet Light Brokerage AdThrive MediaVine
Is 2019 going to be the year that you take your ecommerce business to the next level of growth? What is currently holding your business back? Is it time to start investing in your development as a leader? If you are ready to do the hard work necessary, you’ve come to the right place! It’s time for another session of Ask Scott here on The Amazing Seller. On this episode, you’ll hear from Scott as he goes over how you can attend Brand Accelerator Live in 2019, his thought of the week, an answer to a question from a TAS follower like you, and much more. Don’t miss a minute of this engaging episode! Brand Accelerator Live! As you look back at 2018, can you honestly say that you have invested in your personal growth as a leader? Have you read any books or attended any events that really challenge your thinking and help you step outside of the box? If you’d like 2019 to be the year where you turn things around for your business, you’ve got to take advantage of Brand Accelerator Live! To find out how this event will set your brand up for success, make sure to listen to this episode of The Amazing Seller! Think about long-term success. Have you ever felt like your business often takes two steps forward and one step backward? What will it take to get out of the constant short-term successes and really tackle those larger goals in life and business? According to Scott, your success is directly tied to your long-term strategy for your business. When was the last time you evaluated your strategy? If you are ready to up your game for 2019, this is an episode you don’t want to miss. Listen to this episode of The Amazing Seller as Scott dives deep into this critical topic for ecommerce sellers like you! How to make sure your PPC efforts are working on Amazon. Have you ever had an issue with your PPC efforts on Amazon? What was your solution? Have you made adjustments to your approach? On this episode of The Amazing Seller, you’ll hear from Scott as he goes over a question from a TAS follower like you who is having some hiccups with their PPC usage. Here are a few helpful places to start, according to Scott. Look at the category your product is listed in. It could be a mismatch. Is the category relevant to your keyword selection? Reach out to Amazon to get an answer. If you are having issues with your PPC strategy, you aren’t alone! To get a full breakdown of solutions you can try to get to the bottom of this issue, make sure to listen to this helpful episode! OUTLINE OF THIS EPISODE OF THE AMAZING SELLER [0:35] Scott’s introduction to this episode of the podcast! [3:30] Scott’s thought of the week, think long-term. [8:00] Question: Why won’t Amazon spend money on PPC for my new product? [16:00] Closing thoughts from Scott. RESOURCES MENTIONED IN THIS EPISODE www.theamazingseller.com/ask www.theamazingsellertv.com www.theamazingseller.com/live AdThrive
Today my guest is Melissa Johnson from the blog, Best Friends for Frosting. Melissa has built one of the most beautiful and successful lifestyle blogs out there. In this conversation, we talk about the best ways to monetize and grow a lifestyle blog, what it's like working with your husband, how to experiment with selling products, and tips for working on sponsored posts with brands. Melissa has been at this a long time, and you can tell by all her wise advice! Listen now! Resources: The Blogger Genius on iTunes Best Friends for Frosting MiloTree Cupcakes & Cashmere Bando Best Friends for Frosting Pinterest Heartfelt Success Podcast Transcript: How To Monetize And Grow A Lifestyle Blog with Melissa Johnson Host 0:04 Welcome to The Blogger Genius Podcast, brought to you by MiloTree. Here's your host, Jilian Leslie. Jillian Leslie 0:11 Hello and welcome back to the show. Before we start, I have a very quick favor to ask. Please, if you haven't already, subscribe to The Blogger Genius Podcast. Pause it for 10 seconds. Just press the subscribe button on iTunes, Google Play, Stitcher, wherever you get your podcasts. This will help get the podcast found, help it grow so that I can keep bringing you awesome guests. So let me tell you about today's episode. Today I am interviewing Melissa Johnson, and she is the creative force behind the blog Best Friends For Frosting. Melissa is an old timer like me, when I think about her blog, it is one of the most beautiful blogs. She creates incredible content, she is the ultimate creator. So without further ado, here is Melissa Johnson. Melissa, welcome to the show. Melissa Johnson 1:09 Hello. I'm so excited to be here. Jillian Leslie 1:12 So we have been kind of like friends, colleagues online, but we've never spoken, and it's so fun because it feels like I'm talking to an old friend. Melissa Johnson 1:24 Same here. I feel like it's been so long that we've emailed back and forth and we've been Facebook friends, and it's about time we have a call. So this is perfect. Jillian Leslie 1:32 Totally. I don't even know your story. Tell me how you started with Best Friends For Frosting. By the way. I've always loved that name. How your business your entrepreneurial journey has evolved since then. Starting the blog, Best Friends for Frosting Melissa Johnson 1:44 So I started Best Friends For Frosting, eight years ago, and it was initially a dessert blog but I learned that I was multi passionate. So about a year and a half into blogging I turned it into a lifestyle website where we cover everything under the sun whether it be entertaining, DIY, a little bit of fashion, recipes, interior design, all that fun stuff that I'm passionate about. The way that I see the blog is that it's all of my favorite things that I get really excited about on my little corner of the internet. So that's what I've done at Best Friends For Frosting over the years, and then also we've expanded into product lines. We have launched a Best Friends for Frosting Airbnb that was named after our Best Friends for Frosting Instagram hashtag, that has over 120,000 shares. Jillian Leslie 2:29 Wow. Okay, keep going. But we're going to have to come back and talk about that. Melissa Johnson 2:33 Sure okay. There's just a lot going on. It's been really fun. And I absolutely love blogging. So I feel like this podcast feels like a second home to me already. Jillian Leslie 2:43 Good. Okay. So have you always been creative? Melissa Johnson 2:46 I have ever since I was little. I love baking. I love doing little DIY projects. My mom would always take me to the craft store to get little pieces of confetti and stationary. So I have always been creative. Yes. Jillian Leslie 3:00 Okay. And so you are the quintessential lifestyle blog? Melissa Johnson 3:05 Yes. Jillian Leslie 3:09 You are the ultimate lifestyle blog. Melissa Johnson 3:11 Yes. The ultimate lifestyle blog. I guess you could say. I don't know big words like that. Jillian Leslie 3:18 But again, like it doesn't matter. Because look how creative you are. You have an Airbnb. Okay, so explain. Did you start because you're like, I want to be a blogger, or this is like my business. How did that work? Melissa Johnson 3:40 So my brother actually, he started blogging about, gosh, I want to say like, almost 15 years ago, he was like, an original blogger. I remember one day I was working a job that I was not passionate about. And he came to my parents house and he had a check for $30,000 from Sprite. And I was like, Oh my gosh, I always thought I was more entrepreneurial than my brother was, I feel kind of bad saying that. But growing up I did just because I was really organized. And my brother wasn't as organized as me. And I just always felt like I was driven. So it's like, oh, my gosh, if he can do it, I can do it, too. And so he really inspired me just seeing how he monetized. And so he taught my husband and I some things about blogging. And then I just figured out what I was passionate about. And then I ended up running with it. Working with your husband on a blog Jillian Leslie 4:25 That's amazing. Okay, and you work with your husband? Melissa Johnson 4:28 I do, we work full time together. It's our only revenue stream. Jillian Leslie 4:31 Wow. And did it start that way? Melissa Johnson 4:34 No, we did not start that way. So it was just myself actually. And I'll tell you what, my son was actually about six months old when I started blogging. And basically what happened was, at first, it was myself running a blog. And then I was working as a marketing director for senior in home care agency. And so I was working that job while blogging. About a year into blogging. I started monetizing. And so I was able to actually quit my job immediately from that monetization. And do that full time. My husband ended up quitting his job, I want to say about three years into it. It's all so blurry to me. But about three years in the blogging, he quit his job and came with me full time. So ever since then, it's been him and I on this. Jillian Leslie 5:14 Wow. And how do you split up what you do what he does? Melissa Johnson 5:18 So it's really cool. Because with him, and I, and we both have total separate zones of geniuses. So with him, he's very much a true blue artist. He does photography, he does recipe development. It's amazing. I really hit the jackpot with him. And so with myself, I'm really great at marketing, branding. Um, gosh, I mean, we're both good at a lot of different things. But we're able to split up equally what we're both individually good at and take those skill sets, and then blend them together and just kind of run with it. So it's been really fun. Jillian Leslie 5:55 I work with my husband, David, and he's the technologist and he built all of the software and all that stuff. And I would agree, which is we have very concrete domains. And I've heard this from other interviews I've done that sometimes when you work with your spouse, it can get kind of mucky if you don't have those delineations. And the people who seem the most successful are the ones that have these, you do this, I do this, we come together for this. And we kind of hand stuff off to each other. But like, I don't have to answer to you. And you don't have to answer to me. Melissa Johnson 6:33 Yes, it's so true. And its so funny you say that, because I feel like this is gonna sound horrible. I love my husband. But I feel like during our work hours, the least that we have to run into each other, the least smooth sailing, it's going to be. I'll tell you all of our fights that we have revolved around business and kids, because those are the things that we're super passionate about. Jillian Leslie 6:55 Yeah. And for us, I would say that people say that what is for you the biggest downside of working with your husband and I always say that, it's like, we can't, it's hard to turn off the business side and the parenting side, like, just to be the two of us goofy and funny. My husband is really funny, and he cracks me up all the time. And sometimes though, when we're like, in our work zone, we will be playful with each other. And it's a weird, I miss you, even though I work with you. Melissa Johnson 7:36 We're the same way too, because you're working. We're in the mode, we're in the zone, but outside, we have to have boundaries on that as well, where it's like, okay, like five o'clock and beyond we are not going to talk about business. We're focusing on the kids, we're focusing on our family weekends as well. We really try to adhere to our schedule Monday through Friday working. It's exciting too because our daughter, we have a two year old daughter, Claire, and she actually just started preschool a few months back. So I feel like she's been at home with us for the past couple of years. So it's really exciting for us where we feel like the newness is kind of coming back, we are able to dive in deeper into our business and focus on things that we weren't able to focus on months or even years ago. Monetizing a lifestyle blog Jillian Leslie 8:17 Okay. So when you start your blog, you start monetizing via traffic, via display ads. Melissa Johnson 8:23 Right. Jillian Leslie 8:23 And we both talked about how we were with the same ad network, Mode. And they went out of business and we both lost a ton of money. We'll just say that that was very painful. But I did feel really bonded to you. Because we're in this Facebook group talking about it. It was we were both talking just before we got on, how it made us both sick. I remember walking around with a stomach ache for like weeks. But it was horrible. Melissa Johnson 8:47 And honestly, I'm an open book about it. I have been very candid about the loss in interviews and different things. I think it is important for bloggers to realize to get their money up front versus waiting. Because I was very much trying to trust with our agency and so on. I just kept thinking, oh it's going to be fine. It's going to be in my Paypal. It's all good. And then yeah, I just remember like I was signed with them. They were the first company that allowed me to quit my day job. So I was so thankful for them. And I still a very thankful for the opportunity even though it's crummy, what happened. But yeah, it's crazy. Jillian Leslie 9:21 Yes. I think it taught us a very valuable lesson, which is, the internet is a crazy place and don't count your eggs. What is it? Don't count your chickens before they hatch. Melissa Johnson 9:35 Don't put all your eggs in one basket. Jillian Leslie 9:36 Don't put all your eggs in one basket. I mean, if you're doing this full time you're doing this with your husband. It's a wild ride, huh? Embracing change as a blogger Melissa Johnson 9:45 It truly is. Jillian Leslie 9:46 You gotta hold on and just like be willing to embrace change, to embrace disappointment. And there are some really cool things about it. Melissa Johnson 9:57 Yeah, you said it so well. And I think, embracing the change in the disappointment. Everybody deals with that no matter what part or part of the journey they are in. For myself, even right now, I'm embracing a lot of change, a lot of different things on my journey. And just because right now, I'm really focusing on growing a podcast from the ground up, and you're probably, you probably can relate to that. I mean, especially with MiloTree, what you've been growing and working on, which is so cool. I mean, it's like, it's kind of like you have your business, but then you're starting new businesses and new adventures. Jillian Leslie 10:28 Absolutely. Okay. So let's talk about this. Okay. So you start your blog, you're monetizing via ads, and sponsored content. And then how did you start growing into products? How did you start growing into an Airbnb, all of that? Selling products as a blogger Melissa Johnson 10:44 So this year, we really tried to like beta test different products, because we haven't put a ton of money behind it. It's more of like brands have come to us and have paid us for releasing the line, that sort of thing. So we really wanted to beta test it behind other brands. So that way that we wouldn't lose a ton of money it into a product line, just to see how our audience reacts to the sales and all of those different things. So that was our game plan when we release the product line, which sold out. Jillian Leslie 11:12 Slow down. I need you to go step by step. Okay. So you decide you're going to make a product line product, right? Melissa Johnson 11:21 Yes. So we decided to make a product line. Jillian Leslie 11:24 Okay, what kind of products? Melissa Johnson 11:26 So for starters, we released a desk, a very stylish modern desk. We released the desk earlier this year. Jillian Leslie 12:00 I have to say, it's a little random. Melissa Johnson 12:04 It is random. But I mean, it isn't. Because interior design is one of our most popular category. I really wanted to test what sells would be like releasing an actual furniture product. Jillian Leslie 12:15 Okay, got it. Melissa Johnson 12:17 So we released the desk, but you sit and write out or work on your laptop out. And I'm actually sitting here as I'm talking to you. It sold out. Jillian Leslie 12:27 Wow. And you did this with another company. Melissa Johnson 12:30 We did. We had another company manufacturer it, ship it out, sell it. We took the product imagery, I worked in designing it. And that's how the whole thing came about. Jillian Leslie 12:38 Got it. And then was it like a rev share kind of thing where, you know, this is their manufacturing and shipping it and all that stuff. Like you get a cut of it. And they get a cut of it? Melissa Johnson 12:48 Correct. Jillian Leslie 12:49 Okay. Melissa Johnson 12:52 So that ended up performing really well. And then in addition to that, we also released a product line with a company called Readable. It's a female founded company. They're amazing. And they're just doing some really cool things. They did their first collaboration with Emily Schumann, of Cupcakes and Cashmere. And they also collaboration with Band-O. And so I'm the third one on board. And so we did a product line collaboration, which sold out to different rounds, I believe. Jillian Leslie 13:24 What kind of product? Melissa Johnson 13:26 So it's actually like, it's a box that you order. I know this is a little confusing, but it's a gift box that you ordered, put really fun things inside. And then on the inside of the box is personalization. You can upload your own custom photos. And a little message like Happy Birthday says, I love you, or whatever you want to write in the box. And so I designed the exterior of three different prints for the boxes. And they performed really well. It was really fun for me, I got to work hand in hand with their designer, oversee the entire design of each box. So it was just a really cool experience. Jillian Leslie 14:11 With you selling these products. Were you testing if people would buy from you? Melissa Johnson 14:22 That's exactly what we wanted to see how the sales generated. And it's tough when you're in the blogging industry, and you see your audience and the other side. It's hard to know, okay, what are they going to gravitate towards the most? What are they going to be most inclined to purchase? And so we just really wanted to test the market and see how that worked. Without totally breaking the bank. Jillian Leslie 14:41 Totally. Wow. And it's good. I mean, your stuff is selling. That's phenomenal. Okay, let's talk about social media. Your husband takes some beautiful photos. When I think of you, I think of beautiful photos. Melissa Johnson 15:02 That's really sweet of you to say yes, to me and then also we've collaborated with a couple other photographers in Sacramento over the years as well. And so now my husband's doing more of the photography. He updated his camera this year. And he's really been learning it and practicing it. So it's been really cool. How to drive traffic as a blogger Jillian Leslie 15:19 Okay, so talk to me then about how you drive traffic to your blog, and what social media platforms do you use? And what where have you connected the most with your audience? Melissa Johnson 15:32 Oh, that's a great question. Okay. So for in terms of social media, I would definitely say Instagram and Pinterest have been our most popular platforms in terms of building relationships, and really making Best Friends for Frosting turn into a brand. I know that they're so different but I'm such a visual person where I love that on Instagram, its so easy to be able to see things, and Pinterest it's so easy to see things. But when it comes to Facebook or Twitter, right, it's not as much of a visual thing. And so in terms of like, generating traffic, Pinterest is working on a case study for Best Friends for Frosting. It turns out that they have told us that we are one of their highest engaged accounts. Yeah, we actually we have 6.5 million monthly viewers on Pinterest and so that's been an awesome way to grow an extension of our brand, because our readership, people learn about us through Pinterest, Best Friends for Frosting from Pinterest, and then from there, will generate more site traffic, which makes makes us able to demand higher rates for sponsored blog post. We can also have a higher amount of traffic from our visitors from Pinterest. And then the other cool thing is that if people are feeling really inclined, they can follow us on Instagram or Facebook or Twitter. So Pinterest has been a great, great part of our growth. Jillian Leslie 16:55 Right? And do you use MiloTree? Why the MiloTree Pinterest pop-up will grow your traffic Melissa Johnson 16:57 I do. And I love love, love, love MiloTree. Jillian Leslie 17:02 What are you growing with it? Melissa Johnson 17:04 So MiloTree right now I'm focusing on Pinterest, because one thing that I noticed on Pinterest for a hot minute there, was that followers weren't growing as rapidly in the earlier part of this year, because we weren't putting as much content. I just saw that those numbers weren't growing as fast as they previously were when we were pinning a lot more actively. And so I installed the MiloTree plugin and had a little pop up on my website. This is "Follow me on Pinterest." And I have literally grown thousands and thousands of new followers just by having that little pop up. Jillian Leslie 17:34 What I see probably working for you is if a lot of your traffic is coming from Pinterest to your site, and then your pop-up shows up and says, Follow me on Pinterest, they already know that you're an influencer on Pinterest. So they're more apt to then follow you. Melissa Johnson 17:51 Yes, that's so true. The other cool thing about having that plugin as well, is that people will come and find us on Pinterest. But maybe they just want to see the actual like posts. They're trying to find us from Pinterest, go to my blog. And today, like they haven't even had an opportunity to say like, Oh, I'm going to follow her on Pinterest because they're trying to find that direct content to my blog. And then that pop-up comes up. And it's like, oh, yeah, I need to follow Best Friends for Frosting on Pinterest Jillian Leslie 18:15 Right. I'm so glad it's working for you. I'm so happy. Melissa Johnson 18:21 Honestly, it's funny, because we download a lot of plugins. And a lot of times it's one of those things where we waste money. We buy a year subscription and it's like, oh, this sort of works, but we're not going to renew it. And MiloTree is one of those plugins that I like tell every blogger, like you have to download it, it's so helpful to grow your following, like whatever platform that you're trying to nurture and grow have that MiloTree pop up for. Jillian Leslie 18:43 And we want you to love it. And if you don't, we don't want you to pay for it. So we don't lock you in. I mean you can buy a year subscription but you can also just pay nine bucks a month, and we're super happy, and we we want to be part of your success. Melissa Johnson 18:59 That's what I'm so thankful for, recently we bought a recipe plugin. And they want a whole year up front. And I get a little commitment phobic, like I don't want to pay all that up front. What if I end up not loving it? And so my MiloTree it's cool because you can spend you know that $9 a month and you get these awesome newsletters with all the business tips that you send out, to which is cool. Jillian Leslie 19:19 Oh, thank you. Thank you. Yeah, I love doing that. Again. I love connecting. That's how we did this, was you read one of my emails. And you emailed me back and then I said, Come on my show. Melissa Johnson 19:36 That's awesome. Yeah, I'm so thankful to be here. This is so great to just be able to be on your official podcast. I've heard so many great things from other bloggers about this. Jillian Leslie 19:47 So now for Instagram. So Pinterest is driving traffic to you. Is Instagram driving traffic? Or what are you getting from Instagram. How to use Instagram as an influencer Melissa Johnson 19:56 So Instagram right now, we have our website like in the actual address bar on our Instagram page. But to be totally honest, I feel like Instagram is more of a place where it's kind of like its own animal. So it's housing all of its own content. Now it's doing video. Now it's doing stories. I'm even getting to a point where I'm posting my recipes. And I'm not even saying go back to my blog on my here's my recipe because now they're even trying to have like that Pinterest aspect where you're able to save your own content and create your own prints. And so I feel like they are trying to be their own animal and a lot of ways, right. And so I especially, because a large portion of our bread and butter is sponsored posts. I make sure to really nurture those relationships. And offer as much up front value without taking them outside the platform as possible, though, I'll tell you, I do have like anxiety moments where I'm like, I'm going to be kicking myself because Instagram, Facebook owns it. And we don't know what's going to happen because we don't own that platform. When it comes to our blogs. We own that, we own those platforms. And you can easily search for things that a search engine on your blog posts, like, and as a search option, you cannot do that on Instagram. I mean, it's kind of it's a very unique time for content creators. I have to say. Jillian Leslie 21:12 What do you mean by that? Melissa Johnson 21:13 Just, I mean, those spaces just constantly evolving and changing, and there's just a lot happening, Jillian Leslie 21:19 Right. Do you monetize more from sponsored content than traffic? Melissa Johnson 21:25 Oh, yes, we do. Sponsored content is our bread and butter, I would say for sure. We do monetize from or traffic too. But the largest portion of our monetization is from sponsored blog posts and social shares. Jillian Leslie 21:37 Got it. So are you constantly doing sponsored posts? Strategies for sponsored posts as a blogger Melissa Johnson 21:42 We are. We do quite a few a month. Gosh, I mean, anywhere ranging from like, three to ten per month. Jillian Leslie 21:51 Wow. Okay. And how do you think about it? Like, how do you think about managing your time, managing your process, so that you're not just constantly reinventing the wheel? Like, okay, we've got another recipe, like, how do you how do you do it so that you can get everything done? Melissa Johnson 22:13 It's tough. I mean, honestly, it's a never ending battle, because I feel like I'm always refining that process, and then eventually ends up not working for me, or something ends up just, I don't know, it's really tough. I feel like it's a never ending battle. But I am at a unique point where as much as I love blogging, I really want to generate multiple revenue streams. So I am focusing on how to fine tune Best Friends for Frosting to run like a well oiled machine, where I'm not having to be such hands on as I currently am. And so I have that mindset right now. It's an interesting time for us for sure. Jillian Leslie 22:52 We also now have two businesses, so that we're really trying to find a variety of income streams, and especially, you know, when Mode exploded in our face, like it did, you know, I think that that's further inspired us to, to really look at how we can make money in a variety of different ways. Melissa Johnson 23:13 Totally, I completely agree. I know, it was such a shocker. And that was a big eye opener, where it's like, you can't put all your eggs in one basket. And so now at this point, we're working with a lot of different agencies in terms of closing deals for sponsored posts. Jillian Leslie 23:27 That was my question. Are brands reaching out to you? Who is your favorite agency? Like, how do you get work with brands? Melissa Johnson 23:37 So in terms of getting work with different brands, and things the majority, a lot of them are coming to us directly, like Hey, we found you, and we'd love to work with you on this or that. And so then it becomes a negotiating process. And so, you know, sometimes they're not willing to pay our rates, and so it doesn't end up working out. And so it's just a case by case basis, for sure. But we do work directly with ad agencies, PR agencies, and then directly with companies, a lot of companies now. In the past, they used to get companies like ad agencies or PR agencies to house in facilitate their blog partnerships. But now companies are actually hiring dedicated people in their headquarters to handle those themselves. So I'm a little bit of everybody. Jillian Leslie 24:21 Okay. And then how does it work? Like, are you ever racing at the last minute to get the content created? That was always our thing, where I'd tell me husband, this weekend, we can't have any plans, because we have three posts, we have to work on. Melissa Johnson 24:41 Yes and it's hard. Yes, absolutely. We've been there, done that so many times. And it's hard, because, I mean, we've never been late, we always fully execute. But we have had times where we have to scramble at the last minute and so that's the hard part. I love what we do. But there is that side things where it's like, there's so many steps involved, you have to generate that organic content to keep your audience staying put, and loving what you're doing, then you have to pitch brands, create the content to support what you're doing. So there's just so many different steps when it comes to blogging, and not to mention all the social media growth and all that stuff. Jillian Leslie 25:19 Yeah, so how many new posts are you posting a week? Melissa Johnson 25:25 Only two. We're only doing two, we used to do about four to five, years ago. It's just kind of to the point where I thought, you know, quality over quantity, and it's just, I really want to, like produce things that I'm over the moon excited about that are meaningful to me, versus just scrambling together to drop a post. Jillian Leslie 25:41 Does that include sponsored content as well, like, that would be one of the two that you're releasing that week? Melissa Johnson 25:46 It does. Not every single week, but a lot of times it does. Jillian Leslie 25:50 Now, are you going back? This is the thing that we're doing. Are you going back and updating old content? Melissa Johnson 25:58 I should be. I'm doing it for SEO purposes. And I have it on my list. And I'm like, Okay, I gotta jump to that. But I'm at the season where I know I'm kind of touched on this earlier, but I tried the whole, getting an office, having employees, having a team, and then I just felt like I got to a point were just getting to the office was a pain in the, you know what, and then, micromanaging people, where managing employees was just so hard for me, because I'm type-A and I'm a perfectionist. And so I just had a point where I just realized, it's easier for Andy and I to do this together. So that's kind of where we've been this past year. But I'm now at a point where I feel like I'm running myself ragged in a lot of ways. I'm doing a lot of smaller tasks, whether it's like updating a social media platform, or I hate to say it like that. But I mean, when I'm updating Facebook or Instagram, I do have an intern update that for me, but I am on like Instagram and I myself and an intern manage the Pinterest being like, totally fully transparent. But it's hard because I'm trying to do everything and then it's like factoring in growth. I mean, the strategies are just getting tougher and tougher and tougher, right? Updating old blog posts as an SEO strategy Jillian Leslie 27:12 Yeah, they're getting more intricate and so here's what I would say. What we've done that has lightened our load is we used to post three original pieces of content a week and now we have gone to two and all we do with that third one is update a post. Melissa Johnson 27:30 Really? Are you saying that you update it and change the date? Jillian Leslie 27:35 Yes. Republish it, because Google doesn't care. They don't care that you did an evergreen post three years ago, if it's still relevant. And you can maybe make a new collage, update text, all this stuff. Google's happy if you publish it today. Melissa Johnson 27:56 That's awesome. That is really cool. I've heard other people talk about it. But I'd never heard it broken down that way. Where it completely makes sense. Jillian Leslie 28:03 Yes. I used to believe that you had to feed the Google machine with new content, new content. And then actually, it was at the AdThrive conference where the SEO guy was like, it doesn't matter in Google's eyes. And in Pinterest's eyes, if you update it. It's much easier, first of all, to update a post than it is to create a new post. All you need to do is like, right now I'm editing out photos, I realized that we had too many photos in a post or making a new hero image, or trying to really optimize the post for SEO. So I am putting more links at the bottom of a post. So let's say it's a Halloween post that we're updating, well then at the end now we'll say, "Hey, you know, do you want free Halloween party printables?" And then we'll do some links to our other posts. And literally, that's how we update the post Melissa Johnson 29:06 Yeah Google loves those links. Jillian Leslie 29:08 So good. So right. I'm trying to provide for Google, but really, I'm really trying to provide for somebody who wants to see, you know, let's say we do we have Halloween pretzels. And they're cute. And so at the bottom will say, hey, do you want Halloween free Halloween printables? Because, you know, you probably have printables at your party with pretzels. And it's been a really successful strategy. And it's taken a lot of the load off. Melissa Johnson 29:36 Oh, I can imagine. Jillian Leslie 29:37 So you could go to like, one piece of content a week and then take an old evergreen post and update it. Melissa Johnson 29:45 I might just need to do that. Jillian Leslie 29:49 I think that the emphasis used to be back in the day for us was like, we did four posts or five posts or seven posts. And now it's seems like the emphasis is on quality and updating your content. Somebody described it to me as a library, you have a library of content, and all you're doing is just making the books ar as good as they possibly can. Like, you don't even need more books. You just need high quality books. Melissa Johnson 30:20 Right. And that's what I've been learning more and more, even with blogging and building my business in general, is that it's quality over quantity. And simplifying is so important. So if you can take something in fact, it it's better like, just think about In and Out Burger. They could have so many things on their menu, right? They, keep it very simple. Because decision fatigue. Have you ever gone to a website where you're gonna buy something and you love something. But then you see six things that you love, and you can't make the choice and you end up saying to heck with it. And you leave. Jillian Leslie 30:48 I feel that way at Zappos. Shopping for shoes. I can go through 32 pages of shoes. Melissa Johnson 30:56 No way. No way. But if you go somewhere, like In and Out Burger, there's like four really good things that have been perfected, and somebody put their heart and soul into it and just made it the best. I feel like that's the way to go. Jillian Leslie 31:07 And by the way, that's our same philosophy with MiloTree, which is one ask per visit. So it's not, Oh, my God. And then we've got all these things that we need you to do. And you get like, totally overwhelmed as a visitor versus, Hey, follow me on Pinterest. Melissa Johnson 31:22 That's so smart. Yeah, and it's definitely working. Especially from my perspective, from the growth that we've seen on our Pinterest audience loving it. Jillian Leslie 31:30 I'm so glad. Okay, so tell me, what about your business are you most excited about right now? Melissa Johnson 31:41 Is that bad, that I have to think about that for a second? Jillian Leslie 31:43 No, because I know what your life is like. I relate. Melissa Johnson 31:51 You know, right now, I feel like I have five really good ideas in my head. And I'm having a really hard time saying and giving myself permission to say, this is where I'm going to start. And this is the one that I'm going to focus on. And so that's been tough for me. But I'll tell you what I learned during that process. And I'm going to get right back to your question kind of intertwined together. Blogger advice: the secret to getting ahead is getting started But I learned the secret to getting ahead is getting started. So, for example, Heartfelt Success Podcast, that's my, new podcasts that I launched, we feature celebrities and entrepreneurs. And we talk about things that can motivate or uplift you or offer value, whether it's social media tips, or growing your blog, or a challenge that you may have faced in your life, or motherhood or whatever it may be. It's a little bit of everything but I was so nervous and so scared to start that podcast. What I ended up doing was I just started sending out emails and getting guest on and recording and then you know, one thing led to another. We had to learn different things as we were going, but we ended up getting everything going. And so I learned, you know, the secret to getting ahead is getting started. But anyways, that's kind of where intertwines back. I am really excited about Heartfelt Success Podcast, we have some awesome guests lined up. So we've already been featured Laila Ali, and we have other guests in the pipelines that will be released soon. So it's been fun. But yeah, that's what I'm most excited about. Blogger advice: Start a podcast And I have four other things that I'm really excited about, but I just, I don't know which one to go on to next. So that was my whole answer. In a nutshell, I talk a lot, I blame it on being Italian. Jillian Leslie 33:28 I went to a podcasting conference. I love podcasts. I came home. And I said to my daughter, I'm going to start a podcast. And I think she was like, yeah right, mom. And so in a weird way, I wanted to show her that I was going to really do this. And so I just same thing, I just put one foot in front of the other. And I remember it's like saying, I'm really starting a podcast. And she was kind of like, whatever. And then I kept reminding myself that done is better than perfect. And so I watched a bunch of YouTube videos to figure out how to do this. And then the literal boom, I have a podcast. And as I was saying to you, it's kind of messy. And I'm not the best editor. And, you know, sometimes, something will happen in the middle of it. And I go, Well, you know done is better than perfect. And so, I get it. And I'm excited for your podcast. Because I have to say, if you out there are thinking of starting a podcast, do it. It's, it's not expensive. I really fun. I find it really satisfying. Melissa Johnson 34:34 It is really fun. And yeah, that was the thing is that I thought it would be so hard. But honestly, like it's really easy to get things rolling and going. And the secret to getting ahead truly is getting started. I agree with Jillian, if you're thinking about starting a podcast, just go for it. There's so many resources and Facebook groups, and great ways to really learn and find out how to go about it. Jillian Leslie 34:54 Tell me if you agree with this, I think you find your voice. Melissa Johnson 34:59 Yes, it's true. It's true. I said yes. And like a really funny voice. I'm like, wait, but that's not my voice. I know what you're saying you find your voice, you find what you're passionate about. And what's really meaningful to you. Jillian Leslie 35:15 It's like a good way to learn about yourself, that's what I think. Melissa Johnson 35:19 I agree. Jillian Leslie 35:19 Okay, so how can people learn more about you reach out to you all of that? Melissa Johnson 35:25 So in terms of if you want to follow along, I am over on Instagram at Best Friends For Frosting. You can type in Best Friends For Frosting on Pinterest. The website is bestforfriendsfrosting.com We are just now building a website for Heartfelt Success Podcast, so we do have the website holding page up at heartfeltsuccess.com. And then if you go onto Spotify, iTunes, Stitcher, Google Play, just type in Heartfelt Success Podcast and then you can hear me talk unlimited again and we can keep in touch. Jillian Leslie 35:53 Awesome, okay. Well I have to say friend it is so nice having known you for so long, to actually get a chance to chat with you and have all these other people listen. Melissa Johnson 36:06 Yay! We're so overdue. I love that our first conversation was actually recorded, so we can go back to this one day and just laugh about it. Jillian Leslie 36:12 Oh Totally. Well, thank you for being on the show. Melissa Johnson 36:16 Thanks for having me, this is great Jillian Leslie 36:19 If you want to see why Melissa loves MiloTree so much. Head on over to MiloTree.com, set up your pop-up, put it on your site, and watch your Pinterest followers grow. Sign up for MiloTree now and get your first 30 DAYS FREE!
This episode demonstrates that it is possible to get to 6.6 million pageviews in 2 years of blogging, because Caroline Simmons of Swaddles N Bottles did it! And the best part is she loves sharing all her tips and tricks. In this episode, Caroline and I discuss how Pinterest has fueled her blog growth, and how she strategically uses group boards to find new opportunities. Learn how she hires contributors to create content for her parenting blog, and how she's started a new blog to teach other women how to build online businesses. This is all in addition to having two babies at home! If you want actionable steps to take your blog traffic to a new level, you will love this episode! Resources: Swaddles N Bottles Tailwind PinGroupie Pinning For Pageviews Canva Shutterstock Adobe Photos MiloTree Social Warfare HashtagJeff ShareASale CJ Affiliate PepperJam The Basics of Blogging The Basics of Blogging Facebook Group Mastering Affiliate Marketing The Slight Edge * May contain affiliate links. If you click and make a purchase, I might receive a small commission at no cost to you. Transcript - How to Get to 6.6 Million Pageviews in 2 Years of Blogging with Caroline Simmons Welcome to The Blogger Genius Podcast brought to you by MiloTree. Here's your host, Jillian Leslie. Jillian Tohber Leslie 0:03 Hello, everybody. Welcome back to The Blogger Genius Podcast. Today, my guest is Caroline Simmons. It's Caroline right? Not Carolyn? Caroline Simmons 0:21 Yes. Jillian Tohber Leslie 0:21 Yes. okay, and Caroline is a mother of two itty bitty kids. And she's a blogger. She's owner of a blog called Swaddles n Bottles, and it's a resource for new moms. Now what's super interesting is that she started this in 2016, and she has since grown it to over 6.6 million page views. So we are going to get into how she has done that. Welcome to the show. Caroline. Caroline Simmons 0:49 Hi. Thank you for having me. Jillian Tohber Leslie 0:51 So I have to say that we met because you sent me the loveliest email out of nowhere, just saying how much you enjoyed the podcast. Caroline Simmons 1:02 Yes, I am someone who always want to be learning about whatever there is out there that I can get my hands on involving blogging and growing. And just finding new strategies and tips. And anytime I see your email pop up in my inbox, I either read it right then and there, or I flag it because I know it's always got such great content. So yeah, I really enjoy it. And, you know, I like that we were saying that the internet can be kind of a lonely place. And so I always like to just send a positive message whenever I can. And just send you a little word of encouragement that I'm reading it and I'm loving it. And it is absolutely helping me. Jillian Tohber Leslie 1:42 Thank you. And you're also using MiloTree, because if you sign up for MiloTree, you get my emails. So honestly, like when I get an email like that. It's it makes my day. Caroline Simmons 1:54 Well, good. I'm happy to hear that. Jillian Tohber Leslie 1:56 And then when I learned a little bit about your business, I was like, please come on the show, I want to interview you. Caroline Simmons 2:02 Yes, I'm happy to share whatever I can. Kind of pay it forward everything you've given me. I'd love to share some of my tidbits and hope that it can help someone else. Jillian Tohber Leslie 2:11 Okay, so let's start at the beginning. You started this blog not long ago? Caroline Simmons 2:16 Right. Jillian Tohber Leslie 2:16 So tell me a little bit about you. And how you did this. Caroline Simmons 2:20 Okay. Yeah, so I launched it in October of 2016. Starting a blog two years ago to help other mothers Jillian Tohber Leslie 2:25 Wow. So two years ago. Caroline Simmons 2:27 Just about two years ago now. And my first daughter was just three months old at the time. And when I was pregnant with her, I spent so much time online, trying to get my hands on any and all information I could about what was to come in my near future. In terms of my pregnancy and labor and delivery and bringing home a newborn and breastfeeding that newborn. And so I spent so much time online, just trying to collect every bit of information I could. Then as I kind of started going through, you know, those first couple months of motherhood and testing things out and trying to figure out. What was working what wasn't. What were the mom hacks that were saving me time and sanity and whatnot. I thought I would love to share this. And so I decided I wanted to start a blog. I had never done anything website related in the past. Jillian Tohber Leslie 3:22 And what was your previous life? Caroline Simmons 3:24 My previous life, I kind of dabbled around in a few different things. And I spent a few years working for an energy company. I did some recruiting for them. I did some customer service for them prior to leaving my job. Right before I had my first daughter, Emmy, I was working in higher education and working with college students, which was really, really fun. So, to be honest, I can say that I hadn't found what I wanted to do long term. And then when this idea, once it struck me, like creating a blog creating something from scratch that I've done all on my own, and growing it to the point of reaching me, no, never would have guessed it would have been millions of mothers and helping them. Once that idea was in my brain, and in my heart, there was no stopping it. It gave me, it's still to this day gives me goosebumps, just thinking about having the opportunity to do that. And so that's kind of what set me on my path. Jillian Tohber Leslie 4:24 Okay, so you get this idea. You have this tiny little baby, and you think I want to help other mothers, right? So what do you do? Start a blog to solve a problem you're struggling with Caroline Simmons 4:34 I bought a domain and I'm pretty sure my husband thought I had lost my marbles because he's like, do you know anything about blogging? And I didn't. And really, when I was a new mom, I was a new blogger. I researched. I took every free course I could find. I read every book I could find. I invested a little money in some paid ebooks and paid courses. I just just dug into anything I could get my hands on to figure it out. And I started creating content. I think one of the things that was the most helpful was that I was creating content for an audience that I was in the same position. I was going through the same struggles, and I was finding solutions. And I was seeing the light at the end of the tunnel. And I think that really helped. I had to tap into what's going on in my life. What struggles and am I going through? And how can I help others? Jillian Tohber Leslie 5:37 You know, it's so funny, because people will go, I want to start a business, what should it be? And I always say, examine your own life. Because, you know, if you're having a problem, chances are millions of other people are having that exact problem. And that's it again, we didn't set out to create MiloTree, we built it for ourselves, it worked really well. We're like, Hey, we could help other bloggers. And so we didn't set out to go, we're gonna make this app. And, you know, it's just, we scratched our own itch, and we were able to find a solution. Just like you did. Caroline Simmons 6:11 Right, yeah. And that is, I think, what what brings in the people is when you're solving a problem for them, and you're not setting out trying to do something for yourself, right? Having a mindset of helping as a blogger You're saying, and this is something that a lot of people are struggling with, how can I help? And when you have a mindset of helping, I think people can sense that. Yes. And I think that they are attracted to it. Jillian Tohber Leslie 6:35 I agree. It's like, they can smell it. Caroline Simmons 6:37 Yes. Jillian Tohber Leslie 6:39 Okay. So you start writing posts. Caroline Simmons 6:42 I started creating content and building the website, which that was a struggle in itself. Learning this new platform of WordPress, and that, that took some time. That was probably the biggest learning curve. Jillian Tohber Leslie 6:57 Did you did you hire somebody? Caroline Simmons 6:59 No, it was really just tutorials, and watching a lot of YouTube tutorials, and just reaching out to other bloggers, and just kind of trying to figure it out little by little. And still to this day. I would say it was maybe three months ago I installed a new theme in my blog and made a major change. So I tried not to be too hard on myself with it being perfect in the beginning. Because that is kind of, building a website is ever evolving. That was probably the hardest kind of hurdle in the beginning was the technical stuff. Something as simple as changing the color on my menu bar would take me, you know, 45 minutes to Google it and figure it out, and then try it and it didn't work. So I had to try it again. So, that was definitely tough. But now I'm pretty proud of what I do know, and what I can accomplish. And it was fun to learn all of those new things. Jillian Tohber Leslie 7:59 So there's a lot of content on your site. Caroline Simmons 8:02 Yes. Jillian Tohber Leslie 8:03 Did you write it all? Getting contributors to your blog Caroline Simmons 8:04 No, no. So I did in the beginning, and then I believe it was June of this year, I really kind of felt like, while my experiences were great, why not start providing some other views, some other experiences. Because every path through motherhood is unique. And why not give some other people an opportunity to share what they have. So I opened up an application and put it out there on social media, my Instagram, my Facebook. I started reading content that all of these other mothers had submitted. And I was blown away by the results. I never would have thought that I would have received as many applications as I did. And then from that, I now have three writers who write for me consistently. They are wonderful. I feel incredibly blessed to have them because they too, I think, really share my passion for helping moms and providing whatever information they can. So they helped me create a lot of the content. I have done a lot of guest posts in the past where I've allowed newer bloggers to share things. But I would say probably 70% to 80% of the content I wrote myself. I'm really loving having other views and other just stories and point of view this from others. Jillian Tohber Leslie 9:28 Do you pay them? Caroline Simmons 9:30 I do? Yes. My content writers who are with me, my three, I do pay them and I have not paid for, like blog posts in the past. But I do pay my writers. Absolutely. I mean, if you read some of the content they provide me with, it's amazing. It's stellar. And I like supporting them. And the fact that they're also trying to make something of themselves as freelance writers. So, yeah, I love being able to support them on their journey as well. Jillian Tohber Leslie 9:59 And how much content. How often are you posting? Caroline Simmons 10:03 You know, that's one of the interesting things about blogging. Since I brought on these writers, I've been a lot more consistent. When I brought home my second daughter, she was born in October, she was a little bit early, so she really needed extra attention. And so I didn't post there for maybe two months. When I first found out I was pregnant with her, oh, my goodness. I have like the worst morning sickness. And so I didn't post then for two or three weeks. So I wouldn't advise that to other bloggers. Having flexibility as a blogger But I would say it is one of the nice things about blogging, is when you do have to take time for your family, and for yourself, you can. But I have seen a lot of growth since I've been really consistent. And I'd say for the month of September, I think I'm already up to we've posted 16 times. Jillian Tohber Leslie 10:57 Okay. Wow. Caroline Simmons 10:59 And that's a combination of my own, and my writers as well. So as long as there's stuff to be shared, you know, we're going to be sharing it, we're not going to hold ourselves back. As long as we keep having inspiration on things to write. We're going to keep putting it out there. Jillian Tohber Leslie 11:17 That's awesome. Okay. Now, here is the million dollar question actually be 6.6 million question is, how have you grown your page views so big? Be where your audience is as a blogger -- focus on your most successful platform Caroline Simmons 11:29 Well, this is just kind of my philosophy for any blog is you have to know your audience and where they are spending their time, where are they hanging out. And wherever that is, you have got to work the heck out of it. For me, being that I am targeting women, new mothers, for me, that was Pinterest. And Pinterest has been the number one source of traffic for my blog. Really since day one, I have just researched and read and implemented and tested and dug into my analytics with Pinterest more than any other platform because it's what's working for me. And I think that that's something it took me time to figure out to work on what's working. You know, I think as a blogger, we can get so tied up with, well, there's Facebook, and there's Instagram. And there's Twitter. And there's LinkedIn. And, you know, there's all these different things and you're trying to make each of them work. Because you maybe hear that they're working for other bloggers or you think it could work. Where really I mean, if Pinterest is working, work Pinterest, and focus on that. And once you've got some consistent traffic from it, that's it's okay to start working on other things, and looking into other things. But I think that by really focusing on that one platform and doing whatever I could to learn and master and just make it work for me, that's what really drove the traffic. Jillian Tohber Leslie 13:05 So by the way, you are so preaching to the choir, I agree with you 100%. I always say this, which is go toward what's working. And then people will say, yeah, but what, what happens when Pinterest changes their algorithm, and I go, Oh, don't worry, they will. And then you go toward whatever else is working. But if something is working, dig deep, it doesn't mean that you ignore Instagram, but focus on what's making you money. Caroline Simmons 13:33 Right. And especially if you're just starting out, you're like, wow, this is working, okay, that means you've just skim the surface. If you've just pinned a few times, and it starts doing good things for your page views. Imagine what would happen if you really just took the time to educate yourself and read as much as you could. Even if you take three days to do nothing, but just educate yourself. It will pay you back and you will start knowing how to implement these things differently and just and really launch it. Jillian Tohber Leslie 14:01 So let's talk about this. Okay, so did you take Pinterest courses? Caroline Simmons 14:07 I did not take a specific Pinterest course. I'll be honest, I was an avid pinner before. I loved recipes. And when I was young and single, I had my dream wedding board, and all of that. My fashion board and such, so I was a pinner beforehand. And I think I understood how it worked. In that sense, when it came to making it work. For myself as a blogger, I think it was really just about digging into analytics. There's so many free resources out there, you know. Just a quick Pinterest search on Pinterest tips and what you can do to make it work for you. There's so much content out there. Which I love that about the blogging world. I love that people are willing to share, what is working for them. And so I might have taken some free Master Courses, as they call them, where it's like a one time thing where you sit and they share just kind of a few golden nuggets from Pinterest. But I didn't take one course that kind of changed everything. For me, it was more of just grabbing whatever I could, wherever I could, and just implementing little things here and there. Dig into your analytics on Pinterest to see what's working And then, like I said, it's all about digging into your analytics. You know, if you don't know what's working, you're not going to know what to stop doing and what to change. Jillian Tohber Leslie 15:32 Okay, so so let's unpack that a little bit. Caroline Simmons 15:34 Okay. Jillian Tohber Leslie 15:34 What does that mean? Digging into your analytics? Caroline Simmons 15:41 So you've got your analytics on everything, if we're talking specific about Pinterest? Jillian Tohber Leslie 15:46 Yeah, let's do Pinterest. Caroline Simmons 15:48 Pinterest analytics lets you know what boards you're pinning to that are getting the most results. Jillian Tohber Leslie 15:54 Okay. Caroline Simmons 15:54 You can also look into things like what type of pins are performing. You can see what times of day that you're pinning that are working for you. I am an avid user of Tailwind. Jillian Tohber Leslie 16:11 Got it. And we do too. Caroline Simmons 16:14 Oh, my gosh. And that it's not just the Pinterest analytics alone. My Tailwind analytics are huge for me. It lets me know so much. Using group boards as a blogger to grow traffic And especially like I said, I'm a big user of the group boards. And using group boards on Pinterest is a great way to expand your reach. And it's great how they can let you know, you've pinned to this board 67 times in the past month, and it's only been been repinned once. Well, that tells you that your ideal audience is not hanging out in that group board. That's you're not getting your pin in front of the right people. So it may be time to, take a break from that group board, possibly leave that group board and really start to focus more on where are you know, my my ideal pinners? How can I get in touch with them? And how can I make sure that they're seeing my content And clicking on it. Jillian Tohber Leslie 17:11 So in Tailwind, you're looking at which are your most successful boards? Caroline Simmons 17:17 I'm looking at what are my most successful boards. I really also love to look at what people are pinning directly from my domain. Because it shows them if there is an image within a blog post that really is like standing out to them. And they're really captivated by Wow, this is this is such an interesting graphic. And so if I see that that's being pinned a lot, I like to go in and maybe create a new PIN that's maybe a little modified version of that, that graphic, it just tells you so much. But the board analyzer as they call it, and that really helps me see where is my effort is most being returned. I'm using that time slot to pin to this board? Is it worth it? And then from there on the opposite end of, leaving boards and also helps me see what are my rock star boards? Where are my people for sure, hanging out. And I like to make sure that as soon as I have a new blog post that it's going to my rock star boards, because I know that that's going to be the fastest and the best way to reach my audience. Jillian Tohber Leslie 18:24 And how many boards do you have? Caroline Simmons 18:27 Oh, my goodness, I think I'm probably in about 145 range right now. Jillian Tohber Leslie 18:32 Okay. Caroline Simmons 18:33 And that's what's really great about group boards is because I personally have maybe 15,000 followers on Pinterest right now. But my reach is 4.5 million. Jillian Tohber Leslie 18:47 Wow, wow. Caroline Simmons 18:50 Being part of those group boards, it's expanding my reach well beyond my individual followers. And I mean, that's huge, right there. That is what I say is the secret to Pinterest is the group boards. Jillian Tohber Leslie 19:04 Is the group boards. Caroline Simmons 19:05 Absolutely. Jillian Tohber Leslie 19:05 Because, again, I feel like I've heard over time that group boards are not as useful that they need to be very curated. Are you pinning in group boards that have thousands or hundreds of contributors? Caroline Simmons 19:23 You're touching on something that I've heard a lot of debate on. So I agree with you that if you are in boards that are pin whatever you want, no rules. Pin, whatever, and there's, you know, 4.5 thousand people in it. Yes, that can be a negative. But I am personally part of a board that I think have probably 700 or 800 contributors, and it's one of my top ones. That's why when I'm looking at group boards to join, I'm not usually making that decision myself. I'm going to ask to join, I'm going to give it 30 days. And I'm gonna let my Tailwind analytics Tell me from there. So I test it out, see if it's working. And if it doesn't, okay, I'll go ahead and leave. But I also think that you really do need to have a balance, I would say, you know, 70/30. 70% of your group boards you really need to be focusing for that's very specific target audience. I'm a parenting and pregnancy blogger, I'm going to be joining boards that focus around pregnancy, babies, labor and delivery, breastfeeding. That's what I want to be looking for. Testing out group boards as a blogger I'm fine with testing them out. But I'm also very quick to leave them if I feel like they're not working. But I'm not going to rule them out from the beginning. Let's give it a try. Jillian Tohber Leslie 20:44 Now, how are you finding these group boards? Caroline Simmons 20:47 PinGroupie is an awesome resource. It has really evolved too, from when I first started blogging, they've really updated it. And it's a lot more user friendly. Now, you're able to go in and filter out the category of group boards that you're looking for. And so that's awesome. Another great thing is , go to your fellow bloggers, see what some of the bigger bloggers in your in your area and see where they are pinning to and into to get added to those group boards as well. Jillian Tohber Leslie 21:25 And so will you reach out? You emailed them? Will you messaged them on Pinterest? Caroline Simmons 21:30 Yeah, I'd usually just follow the instructions on the group board. And it'll say, follow me and, send me an email or follow me and messaged me on my Facebook page and things like that. And I think one of the most valuable things that's helped me is I have two things I always follow up, I keep a running list of who I have messaged in regards to these group boards. And then if I'm added, I make a note, send them a thank you email. But a week to 10 days later, if I haven't heard back, I send a second email and I continue to follow up with them. Jillian Tohber Leslie 22:06 I love this. Okay, keep going. How to get added to group boards on Pinterest Caroline Simmons 22:08 And then more than that, a lot of times, and this is like a really big secret. But a lot of times, you'll notice that the bigger bloggers that have, you know 300,000+ followers don't have instructions on how you can grow the board. And so it takes some digging. I go to their website, I find, you know, their email address, and I send them a very personalized email to see if I can get added. And so a lot of times, I think that, you know, bloggers will look at these larger accounts. And well, there's no instructions on how to get added. So they must not be accepting contributors. And I don't take that as a stop, I keep going, I keep digging past that. And I find a way to make a connection with them. And I've got a group board that I'm part of. And you know, she didn't have any instructions. But she has half a million followers. And they're my target audience. And I reached out to her, and I kind of established a relationship with her and asked if I could be a contributor. And that was a big launch forward for my traffic. Jillian Tohber Leslie 23:08 That is terrific. Oh, my God, I'm going to go back and kind of rethink our whole group board strategy. Caroline Simmons 23:16 Yeah, it's powerful. Not only that, it's a great way to build a community with people in your network. In my ebook, I have an ebook, Pinning For Pageviews, where I talk about the strategies that work great for Pinterest. And one of my suggestions is to have your own group boards. And, you know, pay back the favor. Give other people an opportunity to market their blog post and their blogs to your audience. And I think it's a great way to say like, hey, I've got this many followers and this group board your content is great, I'd love to add you and you kind of do like a little group board swap and build a relationship there. So for all the group boards who have given you the opportunity to share your content, pay that back and invite some of our fellow bloggers to join yours as well. Jillian Tohber Leslie 24:05 So how many would you say, how many group boards are you in? How many group boards do you have? And how many regular boards? Caroline Simmons 24:17 Yeah, I want to say I am probably part of at least like 100, 120, group boards and 40 are my own. I'm so worried that those numbers are going to be completely off. I'm thinking, like when I'm in tailwind, and I'm adding all those boards, I'm thinking of like, how many days right and so I want to say that's probably about right, I'm in like maybe 120 boards? Jillian Tohber Leslie 24:49 Wow. Okay, how do you keep track then of all of these group boards? Do you have, say, your top five group boards? So if you're pinning do you pin into 100 boards? Caroline Simmons 25:08 So this is going to be really hard to explain but tailwind, has this amazing feature called board lists. And what I do is I create groups of 10. So I have mom boards A, mom boards B, mom boards C, and that's how I go through. And I of course, have a Google Docs with all of my full list of all of them, and which one is on which board list so that way, I ensure that I'm not missing one. And then when I go to pin, a new pin, I go through my list. And I pinned to the group board A, group board B, group board C. Also having it set up in that way where I have those different board list helps me so that way, I'm not pinning, you know, all of the same boards and all the things day. Does that make sense? Jillian Tohber Leslie 26:01 Yeah. Okay. So let me see if I can say that back to you. So you can group boards on tailwind? So let's say you've got 100 group boards, you can lump them, let's say 25 into a group and then another 25 into a group. So that when you are choosing what boards to pin to, all you have to do is put that group name and all those 25 boards will be included. Caroline Simmons 26:32 Yeah, that's it. What's really nice is you can go on your first pin, you go A, B, C, D, then on your second pin, you go B, C, D, A your next pin. So that way you're really mixing it up. Group boards have rules they don't want you pinning 25 times in one day really helps you mix it up so that you're pinning all across your different boards each day. And that's really awesome, too. Because, I mean, you think about like I said 4.5 million when it's mixed up like that. You're really hitting all of those boards. All of those people throughout the week. Got it? What does your team look like as a blogger? Jillian Tohber Leslie 27:09 Yes, this terrific. Okay. So do you have somebody helping you? Caroline Simmons 27:16 You mean with my Pinterest? Jillian Tohber Leslie 27:17 Yes. So are you doing all of this? Caroline Simmons 27:19 I did have a VA for some time who was really, really helpful. And she ended up finding a great full time job that was just like, so meant for her. She's so great at it. But she was helping me for a little while. And my husband helps me with some things like outside of Pinterest. He helps me with more of like the business aspects of it. But Pinterest, I'm really kind of doing it all on my own. And that's not a bad thing. I really enjoy it. I really love it. And it's such a wonderful platform. And like you said, they're always updating, they're always changing. And I think I've yet to see a change that I really dislike. I think that they're always just making it better for the users, which is great for us. Because that means people are enjoying it more. They're spending more time there. So yeah, I really don't mind doing these things on my own. Because I just I love Pinterest. Jillian Tohber Leslie 28:12 It's so terrific. Okay, how many hours a day are you spending on Pinterest? Caroline Simmons 28:19 Spending on Pinterest? Honestly, not too many, thanks to Tailwind. I do do some manual pinning here and there. I really think that Pinterest rewards people who are in there being an active user. And pinning. So I do get in there and pin on different recipes and just things that you know, are of interest to me. So I do spend some time here and there. But I don't have much time to work each week because of you know, the two little babies. So I have to be pretty wise with my time. I'd say each week right now. And probably working. I would say 25 to 30 hours a week. Jillian Tohber Leslie 29:00 Wow, that's great. Caroline Simmons 29:02 Yeah. So I try to squeeze in as much as I can during naptime. And after they go to bed. And they go to a mother's day out program two days a week for just five hours. So the night before they head off to their little school days, we call it I like to sit down and plan well, more than five hours of work. So that way, I can really just set the momentum for myself and just get as much done as I can in that amount of time. Jillian Tohber Leslie 29:31 Who is creating graphics for you? Creating Pinterest images in Canva Caroline Simmons 29:34 I create my graphics. Jillian Tohber Leslie 29:36 Cool. Okay. Using what platform? Caroline Simmons 29:41 Canva and I also really have just discovered Shutterstock, I believe is the name of it. And Adobe Photos a little bit pricier when it comes to purchasing photos. But the quality of them is so great. And as much as I love Canvas, Canva images are very heavily used, and you really start to see and a lot of the same photos being used over and over again. So for me, it's worth it to spend, you know, $3 on a photo that I know is like 100% unique and really just is so on point with the blog post topic. But I love Canva. I am an avid user of it. One of my things for next week is to create a little tutorial for the bloggers and my facebook group who I kind of help with whatever goals they have on Canva, because it's just the possibilities are endless. And, you know, you can really I mean, every graphic on my blog, pretty much 99% of them I created in Canva. Jillian Tohber Leslie 30:41 Wow. And do you have templates set up in Canva so that you can put the image in change the text, and it looks like it's consistent with your site? Caroline Simmons 30:51 I don't. Canva provides a really great Pinterest template, which is that optimal size for a pin. But besides that, I think it's really just creating my own brand in a way in terms of I have certain fonts that I always use, I really I have just a look. And that I stick with. I really like high quality images. I like for the image to be big and bold. And I like for my my texts to be very easy to read as somebody scrolling through Pinterest. I don't want it to be too small. So in terms of templates, I'm really just using that Pinterest pin template on Canva, and then adding all of my own kind of signature things. Grow our email list faster with MiloTree Jillian Tohber Leslie 31:40 I wanted to take a short break to tell you about a new feature, we've added at MiloTree to help you grow your email list faster. Now in your email pop up, you can add add an image. So let's say you've got an e-book or a course or freebie. Or you just want to make your pop up pretty. Just add your image, you will increase the number of subscribers you get. So head on over to MiloTree.com, sign up for your account. Get your first 30 days free. And now back to the show. Keyword strategy for Pinterest Jillian Tohber Leslie 30:41 Now, what about writing descriptions? How do you think about that on Pinterest? Caroline Simmons 32:24 I think you've got to use the same kind of SEO tactics that you use on your blog with Pinterest. You've got to really sit down and create a very keyword heavy description. And you've got to be thinking in the mind of your ideal reader. What are they going to be typing into a search bar and whatever that is, you've got to find a way to work it into your description on Pinterest. Jillian Tohber Leslie 32:55 Yes, yes. Now, are you using hashtags? Caroline Simmons 33:01 I mean, I think maybe once or twice. I have not jumped into that. And I know it's a newer feature. So I haven't started using them yet. But I know others are. And I haven't heard too much feedback on it. Have you heard of people really seeing a huge difference? Jillian Tohber Leslie 33:19 We are starting to put a couple hashtags into our descriptions. And I want to go back and add some hashtags at least like one to every board description. That's a big undertaking, because we have a lot of boards, but that's what I am thinking of doing. But we are starting to put a couple in our descriptions. I don't know if it's helping. I feel like it can't be hurting. And so what we're trying to do is put like our basic search words, you know, #babyshower, #girlbabshower, you know, #pinkbabyshower, that kind of thing. Caroline Simmons 34:02 And you've just touched on like, the toughest thing about blogging, things are always changing. And then you've got to decide, do I spend an entire day going back into this? It's like a few, maybe what, six months ago, Pinterest decided that they were going to change the shape of their board covers. And we all had to spend an entire day going back and fixing all these graphics. You have to really weigh things out and say, Is this a wise use of my time or is it going to even really make a difference? Jillian Tohber Leslie 34:34 And then you don't know that's the bit, you have all these analytics and all this stuff. And then at the end of the day to, there's a part of you, that just doesn't know. Caroline Simmons 34:42 Right. And I think that that's when you've got to take care of the things that you like we've talked about with Pinterest, you got to take care and nurture the things that are working for you, and take on those outside things just one week at a time. And don't try to do all of them at once. And you've really just got to space out and use your time wisely. Jillian Tohber Leslie 35:00 And what I want to say about you is you're not using hashtags and you're still getting tremendous traffic. So will you go entire day going back and doing hashtags because I don't think it's gonna change too much. Exactly. So you do a blog post. Or let's say, even somebody you have these writers. Do you create the editorial calendar for them? Did they pitch you ideas? How to work with blog contributors Caroline Simmons 35:27 No, most of the time I'm sending them the ideas based on what I know their strengths are. I have one girl that's just awesome at the How-tos she just wrote an awesome blog post for me about the maternity leave, with financial planner and how you can basically save up. She's very good at like actionable steps things to do. I've got another one who's just she's wonderful at, tapping into the emotions of motherhood and really just writing almost what I like to call like this supportive type blog posts. And then I also have someone. I have a labor and delivery nurse who writes for me, and she gets all of the things that have a lot of a lot of medical terminology. And, and she she is a great combination and knowledgeable in her field. But she also is so great at breaking it down so things aren't so scary. They're all very, very wonderful writers. And again, I'm so thankful that I have them. At the beginning of each month, I usually send each of them three to four posts, topics, and they begin writing and they have access to Swaddles and Bottles, and so they go in on the back end, and they create their blog posts, they do the formatting and things of that sort. And then it saves as a submitted post. And then I go in, and I do all the search engine optimization, I create the graphics for it. And I do all the little back and stuff, and then I publish it. Then I add it to my Tailwind, and I get it running through all of those group group boards. And then I put it on my Facebook schedule if I plan to share it there. And that's kind of just the the lifeline of a blog posts. Jillian Tohber Leslie 37:19 And how many images are you making per post? Caroline Simmons 37:23 When I first started out, two to three. Jillian Tohber Leslie 37:27 And they all have text overlays? Caroline Simmons 37:30 Yes. Always, use overlay. I like to just play around with the different titles change some words, you know, because the science of what makes a pin go viral. And what makes the pin just die off into the abyss is something that so many people have tried to specifically pinpoint. And it's not a perfect formula. I mean, you can't do ABC and within 24 hours have 20,000 readers, right. There's a lot of great guidance that we've received a lot of just general rules that people say, but again, you know, one of these, general rules that people say, is to avoid having like, faces in your pins but some faces and some pins that have done really, really well. So I think that it's a combination of a lot of things. And so I really like to try to tweak those things with each graphic that I make, just to kind of cover a few different bases. Jillian Tohber Leslie 38:30 So what would those bases be? When you kind of go, Okay, I'm gonna make three images for this blog post, what will you go to, as things you think might be successful? Caroline Simmons 38:40 I'm just really changing the title. And I don't want to say call to action. But for example, let's say I wrote a blog post on losing weight, you know, I might do the first one on, you know, the Complete Guide to losing weight, I may do another one that's like, losing weight 101, 25 ways to get past your plateau, or than I might do another one of, Number stuck on the scale, can't get past a certain point? Here's how we can help you. So it's the exact same subject, but your wording it in different ways, because you never know what's going to appeal to someone, everyone's different. So I really just kind of rewording those things I might do maybe some different fonts, things might look different, just based on whatever the image is. If the image allows for me to do text over the whole image, then I'll do that. If it allows me to do text, they would just kind of like in a bar across the bottom, I might do that. So I really do try to make them pretty different. But the overall goal is, I want that text overlay to really be compelling, and really, really show them that there's value behind clicking through. Jillian Tohber Leslie 40:02 Yes. Got it. I meant to ask this, when you have your contributors, do you say this needs to be at least 300 words? Do you have a limit? Caroline Simmons 40:14 I usually will write that whenever I'm sending them the prompts. Sometimes, yes. The wonderful nurse that I have that writes for me, she just did an awesome blog post for me on the the biggest myths of labor and delivery. :ike debunked by a nurse, which was so awesome, because I mean, moms, you know, we got that we tell our horror stories, and everyone's like, terrified, but then to hear it straight from her. So with her, I usually just kind of let her roll with it. And they've all been writing for me, like I said, for so long, to the point where I think they just know what's the ideal length for Swaddles n Bottles. And we don't have anything that's, you know, an extensive 3, 4 page blog post, and I'd say, 2,000- 2500 words is probably the absolute most that we have. Everything ranges, probably in between, I'd say 650 to 1000 words. And the reason is, because it's a resource, we are trying to get you the information, we don't really want to fluff it a lot. We want to inform you, get you what you need, so that you can feel better about whatever it is that you're looking for. You're struggling with. Jillian Tohber Leslie 41:30 Got it. And then will you add, say, the three images into the blog post? Or will you kind of add them into say Yoast, and then if somebody is going to pin your post, those other images will show up? Caroline Simmons 41:45 Yes. So usually, I just do one in the blog post, then what I will do is create new pins in Pinterest and put that link there. And you bring up a good point, a great tool that I really like, I don't want to get into too much of the debate because they have been having some technical difficulties is Social Warfare. They've done some updates, and some people are jumping ship, I haven't had any issues whatsoever, and I really, really like it. But Social Warfare allows me to select which pin, if somebody decides to click on that Pin It button, it lets me decide which pin is going to be used. And one more than that is it allows me to write that description. Like we talked about that description that's got those keywords. I don't have to worry that they're going to pin something with a blank description, whatever they're pinning, it's keyword heavy. It's got all of those things that I know are going to help it grow. Google vs. Pinterest for driving traffic Jillian Tohber Leslie 42:42 Got it. That's terrific. Okay. Now how are you doing with Google search versus Pinterest in terms of driving traffic. Caroline Simmons 42:52 Google or search engine traffic? Search engines are number two for me. I've seen a great increase. I used to get maybe about four 450 and pageviews a day from search traffic. I'm now into about the 2,000-3000s, and again that has come from all of the amazing bloggers out there who have been kind enough to share you know their tactics and their strategies. I took an amazing paid course from Hashtag Jeff. Are you familiar? Jillian Tohber Leslie 43:38 Love him, love him. Caroline Simmons 43:39 He's so good and I love how he's so real with you. He's like look videos are not my thing. I'm not a really like out there, bubbly blogger. But man, he is so good at what he does. And he breaks it down so well. I love the checklist that he gives you and everything like that. So taking his course why probably what really launched that forward for me. Jillian Tohber Leslie 44:06 I did a workshop with him at an AdThrive conference. And I loved him. Caroline Simmons 44:12 Did you go to the Adthrive Conference last year in Austin? Jillian Tohber Leslie 44:15 Yeah. Were you there? Caroline Simmons 44:15 No, me and my husband were so close to going, and I don't remember what happened. But we weren't able to go and I have like everyone in the Adthrive group has been talking about, when's the next conference? Jillian Tohber Leslie 44:28 Yes, oh I will go. Caroline Simmons 44:30 I'm so ready to go. Jillian Tohber Leslie 44:31 Yes. Yes. So he was there. And that's where he just opened my eyes. I'm going to try and get him on the show. He opened my eyes to the power of SEO. Caroline Simmons 44:41 Yeah, he's wonderful. I love how he keeps it coming for you. Like he's constantly sending emails of new things. When this whole Google big whatever happened in August, he was the first person in my inbox saying here's what you need to do to try to fix it. Jillian Tohber Leslie 44:56 Was this like GDPR? Caroline Simmons 44:58 No, Google did a big update changed. Some things a lot of people in certain areas, saw some big drops. I didn't see anything too big. And I had one day where I got down to just like 1400 but it was one of those things where I think was really scary. A little dip and things have kind of corrected themselves since then. He's just so knowledgeable. Jillian Tohber Leslie 45:22 Yep. Yep. Okay, so how do you monetize? How to monetize as a blogger with affiliates Caroline Simmons 45:26 My monetization strategy for Swaddles n Bottles. I think is really about and I think that should be the case for all blogs, diversification. You don't want to put your eggs in one basket. You don't want to have just one way that you're making money and so we just talked about you know, Adthrive. I monetize my website through ads first of all. Secondly I do affiliate marketing and I think affiliate marketing needs to be diversified. So many people just think Amazon, and Amazon is wonderful I absolutely love it. I was an Amazon mom well before I became a blogger who was promoting it. I mean I order more stuff off of Amazon than I would be willing. So I love it and I love promoting it to to my readers and the products that I use. But then I also love the smaller affiliate marketing setups. You know there's shareasale and CJ affiliates and pepper jam they all have affiliate programs. Target has an affiliate program. I mean, really, it's kind of difficult this day and age to find someone that doesn't have one, so I really think you need to diversify that and not just stick with Amazon, but reach out to all of those those other smaller affiliates as well. Jillian Tohber Leslie 46:40 Are you making your most affiliate income with products like strollers or bottles? Or is it courses about new mothers? What works for your audience? Caroline Simmons 46:57 You know, the product that I'm using, there are so many products for just having a baby in general. It can be difficult to really navigate through them. I do a lot of suggestions -- either the best products that is cost effective products, the ones that work the best things like that. I just did a blog blog posts too, on the products you do not need, because you're going to think that you do, but you actually don't need them. And so I do do a lot of that. I also do an affiliate for courses that like you said, you're a new mom. Here are some things that could help you out, or you know, you're a breastfeeding mother, here are some things that can help you out. So I think it's really just diversifying that. And in thinking outside of the Amazon box, it's a great way to get started. It really is. But then once you've got a good steady hold on it, start looking for more things. Because there are more things out there. The courses and things add so much value for my readers. And I know that they're really, really helping them. And so I love promoting and any other blogs that have courses like that. So that's another way that I monetize affiliate marketing. And then I do do occasional sponsored posts, I'm not too big on them. Well, not to say that I'm not too big on them. I don't do them very often. Because I really do try to stay super selective and which ones I do because I want them to be just really, really in line with my audience, and what they need and what products I think would actually benefit them. And so I do them. I'm not constantly aiming to do a certain amount per month or anything. And when I find a product that I think will be great, I love pitching them. And I have a lot of messages that come to my inbox as well about partnerships. But we just try to stay selective and what we do so that we we stay in line with what our audience needs. Jillian Tohber Leslie 48:54 And if you were to break it down? Are there any other monetization strategies? Caroline Simmons 48:58 No, not for Swaddles n Bottles. Jillian Tohber Leslie 49:00 Okay, if you were to break it down, how much, percentage wise, how much would you say you're making the ads via affiliates? Caroline Simmons 49:09 Affiliates is always number one. I definitely make the most with affiliate marketing. To go back to the diversification, I was just looking at my different income for the month, and Amazon's great. It's on track. It's doing well but for the first time those small little here and there other affiliate opportunities is what I call them, has surpassed my Amazon income which goes to show you can't disregard the little things. This little affiliate program may only make you $100 a month, and this program may make you $100, but then when you've got 10 of those small wins it adds up, so affiliate marketing with Amazon and other affiliates combined, those are definitely my number one source of income each month. Ads as a close second and I think the ad network that you're with is a big part of that, and and then of course sponsored posts would probably the smallest percentage. Jillian Tohber Leslie 50:14 Right and then because you've had all this success, you created another blog and you also have a Facebook group? Teaching other bloggers as a blogger Caroline Simmons 50:24 Yes. So then I created the Basics of Blogging and obviously I hope someone can tell through everything we've talked about today. I really love helping other bloggers. I am a firm believer that I could give away every blogging secret that I have, and it's not going to hurt my success. Jillian Tohber Leslie 50:46 I love that. Say that again. Caroline Simmons 50:54 I had a wonderful mentor at my past job. And his saying was, a candle loses nothing by lighting another candle. Jillian Tohber Leslie 51:03 Yes. Caroline Simmons 51:06 And so I think that as bloggers, it's a natural for us to want to hold everything close. And not give away our secrets. But I think that as long as we all promise to just stay unique and always be ourselves and create our own content. There's nothing wrong with sharing what's working for you. And so I started the Basics of Blogging as a way to share just really anything and everything that was working for me. I created two ebooks Pinning for Pageviews and Mastering Affiliate Marketing, where I just kind of share everything. And then I have a Facebook group where I try to get on there and share just little tidbits here and there. We've recently also started doing something where we invite other successful bloggers to kind of take over the Facebook page. Jillian Tohber Leslie 51:56 Oooh, can I come in? Caroline Simmons 51:57 Yes, absolutely. Come in. And you just kind of share. Jillian Tohber Leslie 52:02 Can we talk about MiloTree? Caroline Simmons 52:03 I actually talked about MiloTree this morning. Jillian Tohber Leslie 52:06 You did? Caroline Simmons 52:06 Yes! Jillian Tohber Leslie 52:07 Oh, thank you. Caroline Simmons 52:08 Yeah, I told them. I was like, I'm doing an interview this morning. I'm really excited about it. And I kind of told them why I think it works so well. And how it's helped me bring back traffic and grow big following. Jillian Tohber Leslie 52:23 I love it. Wait, but tell us what is this Facebook group? Caroline Simmons 52:26 It's called just the Basics of Blogging. Jillian Tohber Leslie 52:28 Okay, got it. Caroline Simmons 52:29 And it's very different than your typical blogging Facebook group. Because in some of the other ones, you'll see a lot of like, promo days and follow for follow and comment threads and stuff like that. It's not really my goal. My goal is, like I've told everyone is just a constant waterfall of knowledge and support. And it's just really where I want people to come and grow and learn and hopefully meet their goals that they have. So it's not a place to come and share your latest blog post on the wall and stuff like that. It's a place to kind and just kind of join this community of people who have the same goals as you. We're all trying to be successful bloggers, and I really want it to be a resource for people. But I also don't want to be the only person sharing what I know. I really want it to be a community and kind of set the standard for whatever's working for you, share it, share the wealth, share the love driven knowledge. I'm excited. You know, all of this the blogging thing blogging about blogging is kind of a newer. Jillian Tohber Leslie 53:33 It's kind of meta, isn't it? Caroline Simmons 53:35 Yeah, it's, it's new. And it's very different than blogging about babies and bumps and birth and things like that. But I enjoy it. I do I really enjoy helping people. And I love hearing your feedback. And one of the bloggers who's doing, you know, takeover soon, she was one of the first people to purchase my ebook. She was a brand new blogger. She's now, bringing in well over 100,000 page views a month. I know that it's not just because of the blog, I know that she also just has a wonderful mindset in terms of continuously learning, and she's just sharp and she's just got something about her that she's been able to be very successful at this very quickly. And so I'm gonna let her take over and share some of her stuff. Jillian Tohber Leslie 54:19 Yes, I would love to come in, just to share kind of what's worked for us. Caroline Simmons 54:24 It's a smaller community. We just, I've just kind of picked up on this with them. Now that my girls are in school, and I have a little bit more time but I've got I've got big goals for it. And I really hope that it becomes something you know, five years down the road when someone else is doing an interview like that. They can say, well, the basics of blogging really helped me. Jillian Tohber Leslie 54:46 Oh, I love that. Okay. Do you have any parting advice for a mom blogger out there? Like you have two little babies, and you're doing this, like, what is your advice to somebody who listens to this and wants to be where you are? Advice: Embrace the process as a blogger, it takes time Caroline Simmons 55:07 I would say well, I would say to just really embrace the process. It takes time. Just the process of that journey of creating something and putting in these hours and staying up late after your baby good, it's bad. And, you know, hustling during those times. It's a tough journey. But man, when you get to the point where you're seeing your goals, you're knocking them off, and you're crossing them out, because you've done it, it's so rewarding. So just embrace it. and be patient with yourself. Don't try to shortcut it or, or anything like that. Really just just embrace the process. And be patient with yourself. Continue to just make those small efforts every single day they will add up. And you will start to see it happening for you. Jillian Tohber Leslie 55:54 Oh, wow, Caroline. Thank you. Just you know, I love your mindset of small goals. It's a slow build, the overnight success is not really real. But if you just keep in there and learn and grow and do your right one thing every day, you will grow your business. Caroline Simmons 56:18 Yeah, absolutely. The Slight Edge is what I'm reading right now. And it's all about that same thing, just constantly making the daily efforts that if you look back at what you did yesterday. Those little efforts that's not what's going to make you successful. But it's continuing to do those over and over and over and over again, that's going to get you to the point where you're meeting your goals. Jillian Tohber Leslie 56:47 And one less thing, which is we all compare ourselves to others. And there are always people who are bigger than us, whose businesses look so much better than our businesses. And by the way, one thing I will say is you have no idea what really going on in that person or that business' life. When you feel yourself contracting and feeling less than, to force yourself into saying and I believe in abundance, and I believe in abundance. Caroline Simmons 57:14 Absolutely. Yeah, you're right comparison, like the saying, comparison is the thief of all joy. If we would all just focus on ourselves and anytime that we're feeling down, write down a few things that we've done and we've accomplished and be able to say that you're proud of yourself. That is a bigger motivation and to me then looking at someone else and trying to you know, catch up with that so to speak. Jillian Tohber Leslie 57:37 Absolutely. Well Caroline, this was such a pleasure thank you so much for coming on the show. Caroline Simmons 57:43 Absolutely. I have enjoyed speaking with you so so much. I hope I get to meet you in person at the next Adthrive convention. I would love it and we live kinda near each other. Yeah, we have made some family trips to Austin with our girls here and there. So I will absolutely reach out to you. If we make our way there. Jillian Tohber Leslie 58:03 I realized I ended my recording without asking Caroline how people could reach out to her me to give you that information. Now, her website is called Swaddlesnbottles.com and her email address is Caroline@swaddlesnbottles.com. Her other site is thebasicsofblogging.com and that's also the name of her facebook group. So do reach out, especially if you'd like this interview. And just like how Caroline is using Milottree to grow her Pinterest followers. Because Pinterest traffic is so valuable, you might want to do it also. So head over to MiloTree and get your Pinterest pop up that tells your visitors to follow you on Pinterest installed on your site. And if you do that you get your first 30 days free. Sign up for MiloTree now and get your first 30 DAYS FREE!
Is your ecommerce brand in the best position to compete as the 4th quarter ramps up? Could you be missing out on some simple adjustments that could really open things up for your business? You’ve come to the right place! On this episode of The Amazing Seller, you’ll hear from Scott and Chris as they go over tips you can use to get your business in the best position. In their conversation, the guys explain why it’s important to dial in your PPC efforts, how too many adjustments can mess you up, the best way to leverage promotions and giveaways, and much more! Don’t miss a minute of this valuable episode! Make adjustments to your PPC strategy. One of the common mistakes that ecommerce sellers make as they head into the 4th quarter is easing up on the PPC spending. Don’t fall for that same mistake! Scott encourages sellers like you to ramp up your PPC spending and take a hard look at the keywords you are honing in on at this critical time. Chris also jumps in and explains that it’s helpful to keep in mind that what you do in the 4th quarter is a little different from what you do the rest of the year. To get the full breakdown from the guys on how to fine-tune your PPC approach, make sure to listen to this episode of The Amazing Seller! Pick one or two things to change. Given the special nature of the 4th quarter and all the tweaks you can make to best position your ecomerce brand for success, there is a word of caution you should heed. Don’t change too many things! If you go on a spree changing your PPC usage drastically and then cutting your prices and then running a special promotion, you can end up spread too thin. Use caution and pick one or two things you want to make adjustments for and see how they play out. Get more helpful insights on this important topic from Scott and Chris by listening to this episode of The Amazing Seller! Why you should use promotions to drive sales. What is your plan to take advantage of days like Black Friday and Cyber Monday? Do you have a plan in place to ramp up excitement for your brand during the holiday season? Scott and Chris encourage sellers like you to specifically leverage Black Friday and Cyber Monday as focus points for your 4th quarter strategy. You can even create promotions like, “The Twelve Days of Christmas.” Learn more about how to highlight your brand from Scott and Chris’ expert perspective on this informative episode of The Amazing Seller! Don’t forget to engage your email list and social media fans! Did you know that the 4th quarter is the best time to use your email list and social media following to drive sales? What better time to utilize this amazing asset that you've been building up, right? What are you waiting for? If you haven’t built up an email list yet, the reason you need one is for moments like this one! If your product listing had a spike in traffic and sales in the middle of the 4th quarter wouldn’t that be useful? To hear more from Scott and Chris on how to leverage your email list and social media following, make sure to listen to this episode of The Amazing Seller! OUTLINE OF THIS EPISODE OF THE AMAZING SELLER [0:03] Scott’s introduction to this episode of the podcast! [2:30] Dial in your PPC efforts. [10:00] Don’t make too many changes in the 4th quarter. [13:00] Leveraging promotions to drive sales and traffic. [25:45] Using Facebook Ads and videos to engage with your audience. [33:30] Growing your email list with a giveaway contest. [36:30] Scott talks about using AdThrive and Mediavine. [40:45] Chris recaps a good 4th quarter marketing strategy. [42:00] Closing thoughts from Scott. RESOURCES MENTIONED IN THIS EPISODE www.theamazingseller.com/join www.tasinnercircle.com AdThrive Mediavine
What does it take to monetize a blog and get an ecommerce business off the ground and running? Do you have to be a jack of all trades or do you just need to niche down and go from there? On this episode of The Amazing Seller, you’ll hear from Scott as he sits down with his friend, Cassidy Tuttle. In her conversation with Scott, Cassidy opens up about how she started her blog, what led her to write her ebook, how she expanded her brand, lessons she learned along the way, and much more! Don’t miss this engaging episode featuring Cassidy! Succulents and Sunshine! Can you really build a robust brand off of a hobby? What should you do if you need to make a pivot? For Cassidy Tuttle, the answer to these questions can quick as she got her brand, Succulents and Sunshine up and running. Cassidy started her brand primarily focusing on her photography but soon she found that her side hobby with succulents was attracting a lot of traffic. Making the pivot from a focus on photography to succulents was a slam dunk decision and Cassidy has never looked back! To hear more about her fascinating story, make sure to listen to this episode of The Amazing Seller! Going deeper. Once you build your ecommerce business and tackle the basics, what is the next step? Do you move on and build a new brand or do you drill down and go deeper with the brand you just built? Looking at Cassidy Tuttle’s story you can see how she expanded her brand beyond a monetized blog to include an ebook, courses, and more. If you are ready to take your ecommerce brand to the next level, make sure to check out this episode of The Amazing Seller and Cassidy’s helpful story! Make sure to niche down. Is it a better idea to go wide and then niche down or start with a hyper-focus and expand from there? Too often ecommcerce business leaders start too broad and struggle to find a niche market and audience to connect with. Don’t let your early chances for success get off to a rough start! Take the time and really drill down with your prospective market, once you’ve done that, go further! What do you have to lose? Learn from Cassidy’s experience and make sure your brand is set up for long-term success! Don’t be afraid, try something new! Isn’t it time that you kicked your ecommerce business into high gear? What are you waiting for? Do you expect someone to come and take you by the hand and lead you every step of the way? Don’t count on it! If you really want to build something that will go the distance, you’ve got to commit to putting Scott’s tried and tested methods into practice! If you want something that you’ve never had, you’ve got to do something you’ve never done! Embrace the challenge and put yourself out there. If you stumble along the way, learn from it. Get a great dose of encouragement from Scott and his guest, Cassidy on this episode of The Amazing Seller! OUTLINE OF THIS EPISODE OF THE AMAZING SELLER [0:03] Scott’s introduction to this episode of the podcast! [4:20] Scott welcomes his guest, Cassidy Tuttle. [5:40] Cassidy talks about how she got started in ecommerce. [11:30] How did Cassidy begin to monetize her blog? [13:30] Why did Cassidy write an ebook? [17:00] Branching out and expanding the brand. [19:30] The value of starting with a hyper-focused niche. [24:00] How to improve search rankings. [37:00] What is the best way to get a blog started? [45:00] Cassidy talks about her experience with AdThrive. [52:00] Don’t be afraid to try something new! [54:30] Closing thoughts from Scott. RESOURCES MENTIONED IN THIS EPISODE www.tasinnercircle.com Cassidy's website - Succulents & Sunshine Smart Passive Income E-junkie AdThrive Mediavine
Today I'm interviewing Abeer Rizvi, from the blog, Cake Whiz. In this episode, Abeer shares how to go from hobby to business, and all the steps she took to turn her love of cake decorating into a successful food blog. We talk about how to figure out what to charge brands, how to leverage social media for traffic, and why ad revenue is worth pursuing! If you have no idea how to turn your passion into a blog, you're going to love this! Resources: Cake Whiz Catch My Party AdThrive MediaVine ShareaSale Everything Food Conference MiloTree Transcript: How to Go From Hobby to Business with Abeer Rizvi Host: [00:00:03] Welcome to The Blogger Genius Podcast brought to you by MiloTree. Here's your host, Jillian Leslie. Jillian: [00:00:10] Hey everybody. Welcome back to the show today. My guest is my friend, Abeer from the food blog Cake Whiz. So welcome to the show Abeer. Abeer: [00:00:23] Thank you for having me. Jillian: [00:00:25] So we met back in, I looked it up, 2015 and we were at BlogHerFood in Chicago, and we were both kind of standing somewhere and we just kind of struck up a conversation. Do you remember that? Abeer: [00:00:44] Yeah it was by the phone chargers. Jillian: [00:00:47] Yes I can totally picture it! And I had come to BlogHerFood because we had just rolled out MiloTree and I had these postcards and I was handing them out. Jillian: [00:00:59] And it took so much courage on my part to go up to random strangers and talk about it, and you were one of those super sweet people. Abeer: [00:01:10] Aw, well you were pretty amazing yourself. Jillian: [00:01:13] And you started showing me photos of the cakes you make. Abeer: [00:01:20] Yes, I don't know how it came to that, but yeah we started talking about your blog and my blog. Jillian: [00:01:25] Right, you knew Catch My Party, right? Abeer: [00:01:28] Yes. I knew about it, because I did some party posts on the blog and I've seen some of your parties and there very few party blogs out there. Jillian: [00:01:38] Right. Abeer: [00:01:38] Yours is one of them. So that's why I knew you, so when you were talking I'm like, 'Oh, that's who you are, I know you!" Jillian: [00:01:43] Totally. And there I was at BlogHerFood and it was so interesting because what I realized is that we are in these little silos. So I'm Catch My Party, and nobody there knew who I was, except you. Abeer: [00:02:03] I think it's because of the niches. Every blog has a niche. And if someone does a lot of savory food then they probably aren't in the same circle of friends or bloggers who keep a lot of savory food. Same with the low carb bloggers or vegan bloggers. Abeer: [00:02:18] That's not to say they don't overlap, like I have friends who are very healthy food bloggers. I don't do any healthy food right. We all know each other. Abeer: [00:02:27] But since yours was so similar to mine in a sense that, you do a crafty food, it's creative, that I was like "Oh there are very few bloggers that do that." Abeer: [00:02:37] So someone like that you get really excited. You're like, yes there's someone else out there! Jillian: [00:02:42] Totally, totally. And we bonded because we both have one child. Abeer: [00:02:46] Yes, we do and we started talking about that. Yes. My son was like maybe two or three at the time. And I was like yeah, I only have one. Jillian: [00:02:57] Yes. Yes. And then the other thing that I always remember about you is you are a scientist. Abeer: [00:03:07] I am, I actually have a Masters in Science. I have a Masters in Cellular Biology and Botany and I don't do anything with that degree now. But I guess there is some science that goes into baking. Jillian: [00:03:22] Yeah, isn't it all chemistry? Abeer: [00:03:24] I mean there's a lot of balance and ratios and measurements of all the but I'm not I'm not in a lab anymore. Jillian: [00:03:31] OK. And I remember that you had made such a big change. OK so let's step back. Can you share how you created Cake Whiz? How Cake Whiz started as a hobby Abeer: [00:03:43] So Cake Whiz actually started as a hobby. I have been baking my entire life. With my mom, and my family and this is something I truly enjoy. Abeer: [00:03:51] I never did cake decorating. I never threw parties where there were themes and so forth. When I got married and moved to Chicago from Canada, there was a cake decorating class that was happening nearby and I was like, let me just register for the class because it just looks like fun. Abeer: [00:04:09] So I registered and I was hooked! I haven't stopped decorating and I felt like it was all this creativity that I can channel into this. And it was just so much fun. Abeer: [00:04:20] So I started the blog just to document everything, and just putting all the stuff making or learning just for the sake of my family or friends. And they were the only ones who actually had the link. Abeer: [00:04:32] And next thing I know I've started getting comments from my readers, like regular people I've never met, saying thank you so much for the tutorial. Or, that was really great, can you share that recipe? Abeer: [00:04:43] And I'm like, oh my god. Who are these people who are you reading my blog? I mean it was it was exciting. Jillian: [00:04:52] And what year was this? Abeer: [00:04:55] About six years ago, I think yeah. And then I think things got a little more serious and brands started reaching out to me and they'll be like, "Hey, we wanted to work with you." And this was so new to me, I didn't even know you could make money with a blog. How to determine what price to charge as a blogger working with brands Abeer: [00:05:09] I do not know how to price myself. And obviously made a lot of mistakes along the way. Priced too low and I'm thinking, oh my god this is so much work. Abeer: [00:05:19] But I've learned a lot and I just love what I'm doing now. So the hobby just suddenly turned into this business. Jillian: [00:05:26] OK so were you at this point working in a lab? Abeer: [00:05:33] No I just finished a Masters. I did my thesis and I got married within a month. We'd been engaged for awhile so we were waiting. And then I moved from Canada to Chicago and I was exhausted and tired of studying. I was tired of researching and I was just taking some time off, well maybe a couple of months that was the plan and then blogging things just sort of took over and I just tried to have fun with it. Jillian: [00:06:00] So when you first realized this could be a business. What did you do next? Abeer: [00:06:08] When I realized that, ok. I started doing it with a proper schedule with a proper plan. The marketing of a post, like every other day really sitting down and creating a list of posts I want. Why I'm making those posts? Why am I blogging? Who am I blogging for? Abeer: [00:06:25] And then really creating a plan for myself. What do I want for this year. What do I want for next year, and really discussing those ideas with my husband as well, because it is a family and I need to make sure that all my plans are are in connection with our family as well. Jillian: [00:06:45] So you decided I'm going to make cakes? Desserts? What was your strategy? Abeer: [00:06:50] So initially the plan was just doing cake decorating and desserts because people are asking for the cake recipes as well, because they will not be able to see the cake inside. But they knew that I decorated the cake. Abeer: [00:07:00] So I started doing tutorials initially, and then we'll go into recipes for the cakes and cupcakes and cookies and so forth. Initially, I was just a dessert blogger. I did not even add savory recipes until last year. Jillian: [00:07:15] Really? How to expand beyond your niche as a blogger Abeer: [00:07:16] Yes. And I was actually terrified of doing that and took me that long to actually make the jump. I have always been a comfort food blogger or some other desserts they were fancy and cute looking and I could use those in parties. So do all that. Abeer: [00:07:30] But last year I was like, let me see. I mean you're not going to see kale salads or anything healthy on the blog. But I started doing comfort food savory recipes and then I was like, we could serve this at a party, too. Abeer: [00:07:44] Why can't you serve, fried chicken or a lasagna. These are things that I serve at parties. Jillian: [00:07:53] Did your audience come along for the ride? Abeer: [00:07:56] They did. And that was my biggest fear, and I'm pretty sure if I started sharing salads and like healthy dressings and stuff like that, it would not have worked because that's not my audience. Abeer: [00:08:06] My audience likes comfort food. My audience loves chocolate. My audience loves butter as much as me. It makes no sense for me to be making a jump and then suddenly jumping into a totally different angle. Abeer: [00:08:20] So what I was doing is yes, I made that jump in to savory as well. But I'm still like a 95 percent desert blogger. I still post more deserts than savory, and I made sure that my savory recipes are comfort food as well. Jillian: [00:08:34] Do your friends ever come to you and say, "Will you decorate a cake for me? Will you bake a cake?" Abeer: [00:08:39] Oh yes. All the time and I usually decline. A few reasons. Number one, Chicago has very strict rules about running a business out of your home. And I'm not going to do anything that's illegal. Abeer: [00:08:56] I have always declined because of those reasons. And it makes sense, I mean there are hygiene factors that you have to take into account, hire out the kitchen space and so forth. Abeer: [00:09:05] So I'm not going to suddenly run a business of cakes and pastries out of my house. And the other reason was sometimes you run a business like that, I feel like I might not be able to balance the blogging aspect of the business. Abeer: [00:09:18] And it just seems like blogging was something I enjoyed way more than actually becoming like a baker who is selling to people. Jillian: [00:09:27] Got it. Do you feel pressure though if there's a family event that you need to show up with a cake? Abeer: [00:09:34] Yes. In the past, like, I had a wedding last year, and my brother got married a few years ago actually. He asked me as well and I declined. Abeer: [00:09:41] I mean it's already stressful going to a wedding and getting ready, getting the kid already. Making sure we're on time, and as you know a family member you have to meet the people as they're coming in and be a host. Abeer: [00:09:55] There are already so many little things that I need to take care of that I was like I can not do a cake, in this situation. It's just not possible. I usually apologize and pull away. Jillian: [00:10:07] I love that. OK. So you started this blog and was the first thing that brands started reaching out to you? Did you think about putting ads up? The value of showing ads on your blog or site Abeer: [00:10:21] So ads are something that I didn't even know about. I had this weird, wrong impression that you don't make a lot of money with ads, and I was absolutely crazy. Abeer: [00:10:27] I did not even go on any ad network for a while. I was already working with brands, I didn't have any ads on my site because I had no idea you could make as much money as you do with ads. Abeer: [00:10:38] And I'm sure there are different networks and different CPMs and RPMs with different networks, and as you grow you can go to better paying networks. But at that time I had no idea. Abeer: [00:10:50] So initially I was just making money by working with brands. Jillian: [00:10:55] You were sharing with me though how you would underprice yourself. Abeer: [00:10:59] Yes, I did initially. I had no idea how to price myself because again, this was not something that I knew anyone who was doing and I could ask them. Abeer: [00:11:09] It was something that just sort of fell into my lap and I enjoyed doing. So brands were interested in getting me to work for them, but I had no idea how to price myself. Abeer: [00:11:17] So we sat down and we created different packages for brands like if they want just a blog post or if they want a blog post and social media shares. If they want just social media shares, if they wanted video along with the posts. Abeer: [00:11:32] Basically, knowing what they want and I could price accordingly because then I don't know how much time effort I would have to put into that project. And that really took the stress factor out for me. Jillian: [00:11:44] Did you think about it from an hourly wage? Abeer: [00:11:48] I tried and it got a little complicated for me, because there are some posts that take more work, like cake decorating or party planning. Those posts will take so much more time than like a recipe post. Abeer: [00:12:03] So it was becoming hard for me to figure it out. And then we just started doing a ballpark range of how long it usually takes of those posts and then just creating a round figure for that. That worked out better for us. Jillian: [00:12:15] Got it. And do you think of your husband as your business partner? Abeer: [00:12:21] No he's not officially a business partner, but yes, he's someone that I do run my ideas through, someone whom I discuss all the technical stuff for my blog obviously. Abeer: [00:12:31] And yes he's my rock, right there. He's helping me along and he's been very supportive. Jillian: [00:12:39] At what point did you think to yourself "This is a business." Abeer: [00:12:42] I think when my husband and I actually sat down to create those prices that was probably a turning point for me. Abeer: [00:12:52] Because up until then it was more like, "Oh yeah sure. Here's a little money," and so forth. This little extra income coming in. Not a big deal. Abeer: [00:13:02] But when we sat down and we decided on how we are going to promote our posts, and really sitting down creating a plan for everything. That's when I felt like this is really a business. Abeer: [00:13:19] That's why we decided to put ads on our site as well and who we are going to go with why we're going with them and so forth. Jillian: [00:13:26] And you guys use AdThrive, which is who we used for Catch My Party. Abeer: [00:13:30] Yes. And I love them. They're great. I mean there's Mediavine as well, people really like them, too. I think they're both great, they both have their advantages and people should definitely talk to both before making a decision. Jillian: [00:13:44] So today you're monetizing via ads, via sponsored posts. Any other products or things that you sell or promote? Abeer: [00:13:55] Oh we've been talking about it, me and my husband. We want a product like books or something. But it's very early stages that we haven't really formulated a plan yet as to what we'll be doing. Abeer: [00:14:08] If we do something it will probably be, maybe the end of this year during the holiday season. But again we're still discussing it and figuring out what we want from the product for our blog. Jillian: [00:14:20] And are you thinking more like a digital product? Abeer: [00:14:23] We would prefer digital only because everything is so digitizing everything everyone is on mobile iPad. So it just seems to make more sense that way. Abeer: [00:14:32] But we're are also thinking of the actual products too, like baking products maybe. We haven't really decided what baking products and what's going to be written on them or how we're going to go about it. But that is something definitely that we have been discussing as the next step. Jillian: [00:14:50] Got it. And do you do affiliate sales? Abeer: [00:14:52] I used to. I never had the same success as some other people do. I suppose maybe I don't have that as a strength. Abeer: [00:15:00] Amazon was not paying out as much as I would've wanted. And then there was also I think ShareaSale that I tried. That was a little better. It does pay sometimes for certain conversions. Abeer: [00:15:14] But for me I think the recipe posts are really working out as well for some of the party posts. I felt like the results were a little better. Jillian: [00:15:24] Now what about social media? Where do you live? What works for you? Social media strategy as a food blogger Abeer: [00:15:37] Most of our traffic comes from Pinterest. I think that is the case of most bloggers out there. Abeer: [00:15:43] I feel Facebook is also very important. I've been working on slowly growing it. And you know moving it up there. I do want to keep it active and engaged and share videos, share other people's stuff too. I do think that brands still value Facebook a lot and they're willing to put money into Facebook for ads. Abeer: [00:16:04] So that is something that people should definitely focus on. And that is something I still focus on hugely as well because obviously we have to focus on it, because it is a major source of traffic. Jillian: [00:16:16] Now what about Instagram for you? Abeer: [00:16:19] It's OK for me. I've had some campaigns that are just for Instagram and they were very simple compared to any other campaigns where basically you're told to share a picture or bake a cake or make a recipe and just photograph it share and it with your readers. Abeer: [00:16:37] So it was a very easy way to get an income from Instagram. But I don't think it is my main social media source out there. Jillian: [00:16:48] Because I feel like food bloggers tend to love Instagram. Abeer: [00:16:53] Oh I love sharing stuff on Instagram. I love the stories that they have because it is informal, and you know it goes into archives afterwards. Abeer: [00:17:01] So I can share something with readers "Here I am at this conference, this is what's going on. Look at all the food here." Or I can share a food festival. "Oh my God you need to check this out." Abeer: [00:17:12] It is a lot of fun in that, but in terms of I guess traffic wise, it doesn't really do anything. So, I don't really put much effort into it because at the end of the day, I do want to drive traffic to the site as well. Jillian: [00:17:26] So do you have a group? I kind of feel like food bloggers all know each other. Do you feel like you have friends or other food bloggers that you can bounce ideas off of? How to build a support network as a food blogger Abeer: [00:17:49] I do. I really feel like I do. And I think I'm very fortunate that I have those people in my life right now because at times you need that. For example, book deals. I've never really thought about it until someone reached out to me, and I thought, "I don't want to do this right now." Or maybe I do. I don't know. Abeer: [00:18:07] But you could talk with other bloggers who have been down that road and they would be happy to share their knowledge with you or even just what's working for them in terms of Facebook. Some people are excellent with writing Facebook ads and then they tell you about it. Abeer: [00:18:21] And I think it's so great. So I feel like it does help to have colleagues. That's what I call them, colleagues, they're friends. And just like any other workplace where you have other employees or colleagues that you are working with. This is the same thing. Abeer: [00:18:35] Yes you're at your home. Yes you meet them at conferences. You don't see them every day. But they are there. Technically they're there 24 hours because you are on the internet. Jillian: [00:18:43] Now where do you hook up? Like Facebook groups? Abeer: [00:18:46] Sometimes, and we chat as well, we have each other's numbers if we are really close. If we met at conferences so we have each other's email address, we have Facebook messenger so we chat there. Abeer: [00:19:01] Also meeting at conferences and just hanging out there, you know im each others rooms, hey come over to my room, we'll hang out and if you have concerns or questions you just bring it up. Some one will share something and then it's always very helpful to see how other people are doing things. Jillian: [00:19:20] Your son is how old now? Abeer: [00:19:21] My son just turned 6. Jillian: [00:19:23] Wow ok. And how how does it work for you? How many hours a week are you working, how do you manage being a mom having a young son, and you know building a business? Abeer: [00:19:38] I'm going to be very honest here, I think it's hard. Anyone who is saying it's easy, they need to show me their ways because it is hard. Putting family first as a food blogger Abeer: [00:19:45] My husband and I decided early on that we will make sure our son comes first, our family comes first. We also decided early on that I will usually only work on the blog or anything blog related when he's at school or he's at other activities. Abeer: [00:20:02] I want to spend as much time with him when he's home with me. Yeah so that was our plan and we really stuck to it. That's not to say that things don't come up sometimes. I go to conferences sometimes, so which means I'm away for two or three days. Abeer: [00:20:15] Sometimes, you know there could be a deadline that's looming. And you have to be thinking about that. "Ok sorry sweetie mommy needs to finish photographing this," so he will understand that, but I try to make a habit of doing it every single day. Abeer: [00:20:30] So he knows what I do. He knows that I take photographs and make recipes. I go to conferences and he slowly aware of it, but also make sure that we're doing other activities that are very important to my family. Abeer: [00:20:42] Like taking trips, road trips, take him to the park or just having family events or getting involved in the community. I think those things are equally important if not more. Jillian: [00:20:53] Did you teach yourself photography? Abeer: [00:20:56] Yes I did. Jillian: [00:20:57] How did you do that? Abeer: [00:20:59] Just by practicing. I mean there are YouTube videos that you can follow along to. At least to show you how the buttons work and what you're supposed to do. Abeer: [00:21:12] That was really helpful in the beginning but then honestly, the little guide that comes with the camera was very helpful too because initially I did not know what all those buttons that teachers were doing. Abeer: [00:21:23] Or even the videography. When I started doing videos. I was lost. I did not know how to edit videos. And then as time went on we just kept practicing. Abeer: [00:21:31] And you can see my old pictures or older videos are not the best. But I left them there, because they kind of show how far I've come and how far can you can go. Jillian: [00:21:59] I feel like video is huge. Are you doing a lot of video? Creating video as a food blogger Abeer: [00:22:05] I am. I do four videos a month sometimes more. Abeer: [00:22:09] For each week I do one video. If I do more than one video, it's not really working out for me in terms of promoting it because if I do two videos a week and then promote them both, the videos do mediocre. But if I do one video I'm able to promote it more and I feel like I give it a fighting chance. Abeer: [00:22:29] Again, every person has their own philosophy on videos, there are some some bloggers who say, "Oh I do like a video for every single recipe that I'm doing," and they do share multiple videos a week and that's excellent. Abeer: [00:22:40] I mean if that can work out with their schedule and that's getting the results that they are looking for. For me at this time, with my schedule and the results I'm seeing, one video per week, is where I was at. Jillian: [00:22:53] Are these videos predominantly for YouTube? Abeer: [00:22:56] No, I don't do YouTube. YouTube has a different algorithm altogether. They prefer longer videos, a longer format. People there also prefer I guess more of a talking style where you are actually in the video talking. A little more personal approach to not a hands on style that you do for Facebook. Jillian: [00:23:13] Got it. So these videos are like the Tasty style? Abeer: [00:23:16] Exactly. So I make sure that those go on Facebook and they also go into my post. Jillian: [00:23:20] Got it. And then you also put them on Instagram? Abeer: [00:23:24] Sometimes I do, sometimes I don't. It just depends on sponsors. If they've asked me to put it on Instagram, I will and then sometimes I will just see how it performs and if it performs well then I will leave it there. Abeer: [00:23:39] If not sometimes the pictures perform better for me on Instagram than the video. It's weird. It depends on the video itself like what the video is about. Jillian: [00:23:50] And do you find that people love the ooey gooey shots? Abeer: [00:23:56] I think they do. I know some people find them very disgusting. I have family members like, "eew weird, that looks gross." But they do really well. Ooey gooey shots with the caramel coming out or the chocolate ganache oozing out. Abeer: [00:24:10] I think people are drawn to it on social media and they want that. You're selling them with a picture. We only have a few seconds to sell our recipe to them or sell our video to them, to really grab their attention. Abeer: [00:24:23] And if an ooey gooey shot is what's working there and I'm happy to do it because that is what the recipe is. It's not like I'm faking an ooey gooey shot. Jillian: [00:24:35] Right. And would cheese work? Do you think it needs to be like chocolate or could it be cheese? Abeer: [00:24:42] Cheese could work well too. I feel like because I personally, even I'm pinning as a user too. I'm glad, if that looks really cool I'm going to pin that, especially the grilled cheese when you show the cheese, a pull and cheese stretch between the two. It looks really good. I would eat that and I would share that on Facebook. Jillian: [00:25:04] That's funny. Now do you find that because Facebook keeps changing its algorithm that your videos do they get as much reach? Abeer: [00:25:14] See that's the reason I started doing one video, before I was doing a few more. Maybe two a week sometimes but then I realized that reach is going down so much that I was not able to get the same traction and I'm still not. Abeer: [00:25:26] Not the same traction I was getting last year. The reach has definitely gone down and I feel like when the brands put in money sometimes that really does help with the video. But overall though it's something which has gone down it's not as high as it used to be. Abeer: [00:25:43] I do know that they're working on a Facebook watch channel. So I guess the attention is probably focused on that right now. But their video style is absolutely different than what I'm doing right now, the Tasty style. Those are longer. Jillian: [00:25:58] Yeah, remember we learned at our conference. Facebook wants people to be creating it sounds like a TV channel. Abeer: [00:26:08] Exactly, it's kind of like YouTube style where they want you to be in there and talk about it. Why are you making this, share some tips and tricks while you're making it. And that's great. I understand what they're doing. I think it is a great user experience. I just don't know if I have the time right now to add that on as well. Jillian: [00:26:23] Right. Right. When you're managing your business, what would you say is one tool that you use that you could not live without? Abeer: [00:26:33] Tool like an appliance? Jillian: [00:26:35] No no no. Like any sort of scheduler or just some something that you use every day to manage your business. Favorite tool: Spreadsheets Abeer: [00:26:44] I think spreadsheets. I live on spreadsheets there is like a spreadsheet for everything. Abeer: [00:26:49] I have a spreadsheet for all my posts so far, and there are columns like, does it have a video? Does it need some photo updates? Do I need to go back and rework the recipe? Maybe I've gotten better at the recipe where I can make it better. How can you update the post for SEO? Abeer: [00:27:08] So I do a lot of those things where I go back and I look to my spreadsheets pretty aggressively figuring out what needs to be done and it also helps me create my to do list. Jillian: [00:27:20] And how scheduled out are you? Are you planning for September or for June? Abeer: [00:27:28] So as a dessert blogger and someone who does a lot of comfort food, for me, the big time is fall. Fall and Christmas. So I'm already ready photographing and basically making videos for those recipes. Abeer: [00:27:42] In the meantime I've also done some for pure summer grilling season like grilled chicken and so forth. Jillian: [00:27:50] Interesting OK. Abeer: [00:27:51] So my main focus right now is for fall and Christmas. Jillian: [00:27:55] Wow OK. And it's only, today is what, May 1st actually. Wow. So you are very organized. Abeer: [00:28:03] I think you need to be if you're running a business. Or if you are doing any work. It's not just a blogging business. Any work that you do even if you're doing a nine to five in an office you need to be super organized in order to be efficient. Abeer: [00:28:18] Because when I don't do that I don't have a to do list. I am honestly all over the place so I need a list. I need structure. Jillian: [00:28:28] And especially working for yourself you don't have a boss telling you, "I need this on my desk tomorrow." Abeer: [00:28:34] Yes. And also you have a family. So you have other commitments there, like my son has PTA meeting coming up or I have to go to school for a fundraiser or something or there's something happening in the community that he's involved in, maybe he has an event happening there I need to be at. Abeer: [00:28:49] For me, I need to make sure that my work is basically scheduled around his work too. Or my husband has something coming up, so yeah. Jillian: [00:28:58] OK. What is the one piece of advice you wished you knew when you were starting out? Advice: Focus on SEO as a blogger Abeer: [00:29:05] I wish I'd focused a bit more on SEO I really wish I did. I feel like I'm getting into it now. It's really really helping and I'm seeing results. But I feel like social media, the algorithm is so volatile and things can change so abruptly you could have a million page views today. And barely anything happen tomorrow. Abeer: [00:29:27] We're all seeing that with Pinterest, we are all seeing that with Facebook. It's just the way it is. You know even with Instagram reach is going down. But that's what people are saying, and I've also been seeing that. Abeer: [00:29:35] So it just seems like with Google, if you know your blog niche and you are writing good content that is relevant. It seems to give you more traffic and that traffic tends to pay better in terms of ads as well. Jillian: [00:29:52] Yes. And I have to say you are not the first person who has said this in terms of what they wish they knew. Abeer: [00:30:00] I feel like I took too long to get into it. But you know we've got to start somewhere. I mean it's a business where you're learning something new every day and you need to keep evolving with the changes. Whether it's social media or whether it's Google. Abeer: [00:30:14] Google's algorithm changes too. But at least you need to understand what's happening and make changes accordingly. But before it was like I was totally ignoring Google, which I should not have. Jillian: [00:30:26] And it seems like from other guests and what I'm learning as well, Google is really smart and if you structure your posts in a way that Google can understand them, then your chances of showing up in search go up drastically. Abeer: [00:30:45] Exactly, that's the thing. Sometimes I have a good post or decent pictures with a lot of social media traffic to back it up. But I'm just not ranking. And I go into the post and I've talked about maybe some random stuff or whatever. Or the posts content was so thin and it had less than 200 words or something. Abeer: [00:31:01] And I'm like come on, I mean I would not click on that post. So it just seems to make more sense when you learn about that. Ok that makes sense. I know why the person is ranking higher. Abeer: [00:31:13] Sometimes I see All Recipes or Genius Kitchen or something. They're ranking high. The reason is because their content is something that the readers are liking and there are a lot of comments and they are engaging with. Abeer: [00:31:28] So we need to make sure that we are doing the same thing with our content too. Obviously backlinks are important too. There's so many little factors that go into the whole concept of SEO which I'm learning and thinking wow, I should've really focus on those. Back in the day when I started. Jillian: [00:31:43] I know. But I always say, SEO is not sexy. It's not not at all like Instagram sexy. It's fun it's like oh look what I just made, and you know it's lots of hearts everywhere. This cute emoji. Abeer: [00:32:02] Totally. No, I think SEO is a lot of work it is also a lot of learning at for me, it is a lot of learning and but at least now that I'm seeing results I'm more motivated to keep doing. Abeer: [00:32:14] Because it's making more sense to me I'm understanding it. And also make sense as to why Google is giving certain posts more priority than others. And it just makes a little more sense then sometimes the traffic that I see for Facebook, where basically I only see traffic when something goes viral. Jillian: [00:32:30] Exactly. Well, Abeer, how can people reach out to you talk to you see what you're doing? Let people know how they can connect. Abeer: [00:32:42] They're more than welcome to email me. My email address is abeer(at)cakewhiz.com, I'm also on Instagram as @cakewhiz1. I'm also on Facebook as CakeWhiz, on Twitter as CakeWhiz. So they can reach out to me anywhere they like and I'm happy to answer any questions they have. Recommended food conferences Jillian: [00:33:01] And are you going to any food conferences? Abeer: [00:33:05] I am. I'm going to do Everything Food Conference in a few days now and I'm presenting there, on Pinterest. Jillian: [00:33:13] Nice. Abeer: [00:33:14] Yeah, it should be a lot of fun. Jillian: [00:33:15] Where is that is happening? Abeer: [00:33:17] In Utah. Jillian: [00:33:18] Okay. Any others that I should try and meet up with you? Abeer: [00:33:23] I was thinking of IFBC but I think it's later in the year around fall. I'm still not sure if I'm going to that or not. So what is it again. It's International Food Blog Conference. Abeer: [00:33:37] I was there last year as a speaker. It was fine, it was just fine. I'm not sure about this here we have a lot of other things happening at the same time, so try to see if I can work that into my schedule. Jillian: [00:33:50] Wonderful, thank you so much. Abeer: [00:33:52] Thank you so much for having me. Jillian: [00:33:56] And thank you for being my friend that first day. Abeer: [00:34:00] You're so sweet. Thank you. How to get free Instagram followers fast Jillian: [00:34:02] Are you trying to grow your social media followers and email subscribers? Well, if you've got two minutes I've got a product for you. It's MiloTree. Jillian: [00:34:11] MiloTree is a smart pop-up slider that you install on your site and it pops up and asks visitors to follow you on Instagram, Facebook, YouTube, Pinterest or subscribe to your list. Jillian: [00:34:26] It takes two minutes to install. We offer a WordPress plugin or a simple line of code and it's Google friendly on mobile and desktop, so we know where your traffic is coming from. Jillian: [00:34:39] We show a Google friendly pop-up on desktop and a smaller Google-friendly pop up on mobile. Check it out. 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Chris got fired from his last job, thankfully! He was speaking with co-workers about his affiliate revenues he was making on the side and his boss found out and fired him! Fast forward almost 10 years and Chris is the host of the UpFuel Podcast and an expert in the Amazon Affiliate space. He is the owner of several businesses in the Amazon space, including affiliate, SaaS and physical product businesses. His opinions and recommendations are not theories…they are from real life experiences. Chris is humble…you'll get that in the Podcast. He didn't sell or pitch anything. He just shared his experiences being an Amazon Affiliate entrepreneur. One thing he said over and over when it came to being successful within the Amazon Affiliate space is to “differentiate” your site. Make sure that whatever product line you choose to pursue, that you differentiate your site from others…there needs to be a strong reason why the end user would review products on your site versus the competition. Episode Highlights: Chris has been self-employed for just under 10 years. His Amazon Affiliate income replaced his “job” income…before he was fired. He owns wordpress plugins, saas, affiliate and physical product businesses. Each niche has its strengths. Choose a niche that is of interest if you are starting out. If you are building a portfolio of Amazon Affiliate sites, then a system and process takes precedence over passion. Price point matters GREATLY within the affiliate space. Develop a product review site, not an information site to help buyers make decisions. Content is still critical, and Chris outsources much of it these days. Amazon's cookie length is 24 hours, allowing you to make money off products you are not reviewing. A long term approach is the key to long term success. Building links can accelerate ranking, but is no replacement for good quality content. When buying…beware of PBNs! Transcription: Mark: Joe how are you? Joe: I'm doing fantastic Mr. Daoust, how about you? Mark: Good. I'd understand you talked to a friend of Quiet Light and a friend of Brad one of our brokers here, Chris Guthrie. Joe: Yeah Chris is from UpFuel.com and AmaSuite and I mentioned those upfront because we didn't talk about it at all during the podcast. He's an entrepreneur, have been self-employed for about 10 years, went off on his own after he got fired. He was actually talking to his coworkers and bragging about how much money he was making doing affiliate marketing and his boss found out and fired him; probably the best thing that ever happened to him because he'd been doing very well ever since. And the subject of the podcast is really specifically focused on the Amazon Affiliate Space. Meaning you build the site doing product reviews on say vacuum cleaners and people look at those reviews click on one that they like and it takes them to Amazon, somebody buys it on Amazon and you get paid. And it's really Chris's … one of his areas of expertise and I mentioned Up Fuel which is his podcast and his blog that he talks about this on so I would recommend people tune in. But also AmaSuite which is a software service that he's built that helps people sort of narrow the path in terms of what they want to find, what products, how to … what niche, what category and he didn't talk about it at all. He didn't pitch. He didn't promote so I'm doing a little bit for him because what I was trying to get was a clear path for people that want to either build one from scratch or buy one and grow it or things of that nature. And I think that he was hesitant to talk about his own product because he's such a nice guy. He really … listen Mark I'm going to, don't let this go to your head but he reminded me of you a little bit which is he just wants to have conversations and help people. And when he helps people it comes back around. And it was a great great great show and I think it'll help a lot of people in terms of the Amazon Affiliate Space. Mark: He reminded you of me huh? Joe: Yeah just the better looking, a lot better looking. Mark: The poor fellow. Joe: All right well let's get to it … I mean if you … it's got to be good so let's get to it then. Mark: All right here we go. Joe: Hey folks it's Joe Valley from Quiet Light Brokerage and today I've got Chris Guthrie on the line with me. Hey Chris how are you doing? Chris: I'm doing well thank you for having me. Joe: Chris you're like a … you're a little bit of famous in my world you know. You are. You're like a star. I know you from your podcast and we've run in the same circles for years but didn't get a chance to meet each other until last October right? It's Rhodium Event Weekend out in Vegas. It turns out you're very good friends with one of our brokers here, Brad Wayland. You guys are in the same neck of the woods I think right? Chris: Yeah well actually he's an up and a little bit south to Seattle; he's over several states but- Joe: Okay so in the internet world I guess you're in the same neck of the woods because you're- Chris: That's right. Joe: You should like candies; you guys don't even if grocery's on. Chris: Yeah. Joe: But you talk to each other often? Chris: Definitely, yup. Joe: Well he speaks very highly of you. And I … as I said pre intro here we don't do fancy intros. I don't have your bio in front of me. I know about you. I know what you do a little bit. But I think folks want to hear it directly from you. So why don't you give us a little bit of background on how you got started in the internet space and what you do for a living these days. Chris: Definitely. Yeah so probably the reason why I try and put myself out in the first place is just because it leads to conversations and other different types of opportunities. That's kind of some eyesight a long time ago when I was digging into this online space that I wanted to blog about it and talk about it because it would lead to relationships and friendships that I count people out and they count me out. And that's sort of why when you said the famous thing I think … I don't really think that but it's more just that's kind of why I went with that direction. But yeah I pretty much just have been doing various online businesses now for about 8 ½ years full time. On the Amazon Affiliate Side of things that's actually how I was able to first leave my day job. I was just fired but I left ahead that job and was able to just keep doing online stuff because my Amazon Affiliate income had replaced my day job income. And so I just basically got to work the next day working on building more sites and growing the main primary site I had at the time. But yes so other than Amazon Affiliate thing I also run WordPress plugins, a SaaS company, physical product company, and other different types of Amazon Affiliate or well regular affiliate websites as well. So a bunch of different things along the way but yeah I've been here right for quite a while. Joe: So what's your favorite in terms of running the business? Do you like the physical product space which takes working capital and things of that nature or the Amazon Affiliate Space? Chris: It's tough to say because each one has its benefit. With the affiliate side of things, you don't have any … you don't have to deal with any capital it's just other than your initial capital to invest in the content creation and building a site out. There isn't going to be as many costs associated with that especially once you get up in ranks and start making money. And then there is … in many cases there's less ongoing expenses. But on the physical product side you're constantly putting in more cash and then a lot of cases it's just a matter of trying to lay the damage to yourself for as long as possible so you can continue to grow that business. I mean everyone has a different goal in terms of what they want to do with any business type but in the physical profit side you've got to do … you've got to re-invest so much more. So I can't really answer I guess one way or the other I think it really comes down to what people are most interested in. For me, I like both and so that's kind of why I still kind of have my feet in both areas; both on the physical product side and if the affiliate side and then also selling software and things like that. Joe: Got you. Well as we talked a little bit before we started recording, I've sold a number of affiliate spaces, businesses where they're selling Amazon Affiliate products and making money through Amazon Affiliates. And it's becoming more and more prevalent in some of the event groups like Rhodium Weekend, a lot of folks getting very interested in that. I've always been in the physical products space, I had a couple of content sites and my physical products site was actually write good quality content and Google will reward me was my methodology. And it happened but I sold physical products. But the affiliate space is fascinating for me and I think more and more people are wanting to learn more about it. So that's obviously why we're chatting today and want to really get your expertise on how do you get started in this space? How do you focus on growth? Can you ramp it up? Can you do pay per click? Do you do social media? Do you do the tricks and tactics that they do with physical products on Amazon, or what's the approach? And then maybe keep in mind that we have both buyers and sellers that listen to the podcast. So tell me from a starting point how do you begin in the Amazon Affiliate Space? Do you just simply research a product, pick one, and go with it? Do something you love? What would you recommend to those listening? Chris: Yeah definitely. So for the way I like to do things is I like to look into … it's more of a just general niche research. And that's of course … you said that where there's a lot of baggage because there's a whole different bunch of different ways you can do this. You can use various tools to help with the research process. You can just go out to Google based on things you're interested in and do research in that way. On the Amazon Affiliate side, that's what I'd spent more of my time doing was focusing more on areas that I was most interested in personally. So I had a site that was focused on like smaller computers and that was something that I was interested in personally. So that's kind of how I decided. I was looking at the various niches online and what people were ranking for and how they're making money. And it just seemed like a lot of the content they are creating wasn't really … in many cases at least for the niche that I was in before I sold that site, they weren't even actually reviewing the products that they're talking about. They are just basically writing articles and using CNET [inaudible 00:08:34.7] large conglomerates, larger websites to come up with the information they could write about. So what I did and so I was … you know contacted these companies and got them to send me products for free and I sent it back and do things like that. So with any site that I do whether it's Amazon Affiliate or anything else it's … for me, it's mainly about finding a way to differentiate. So looking at any niche is just okay what can I do to be better or to better serve the audience than the existing niches that are out there? So I usually- Joe: Okay. I would think it would matter that it's something you're interested in because with an Amazon Affiliate Space you're reviewing the products. You're writing content about it. You're sharing your voice and your opinion. It seems like it'll be important that is something that you like. Chris: Yeah definitely I mean that's … for me that was the approach. I mean I think that if the goal and this isn't something that I've done personally but if the goal is to really systemize and launch dozens of sites or something like that then you would need to just … you could really do just things your interested in because you can't potentially run out of those. But you'd be looking at different types of criteria just like what's the average sign price of a product, that's one of the things that you focus on as well is if you're focusing on a niche where the price is much higher then you can make more money in Amazon's Affiliate program because of the way they have the structure; their affiliate payouts. But that's something to consider as well is just the price of the items that are going to be sold. Joe: Okay so focus a little bit on something that you like but also look at the math behind it in terms of the Amazon Affiliate Payouts and the different categories that they have and the price points. Because you're going to get a paid … you get paid a percentage of the close transaction I assume; is that right? Can you touch on that a little bit, how you make money as an affiliate? Start from scratch and assume that people are tired of physical products or tired of SaaS products and they want to maybe buy one of these. How do you make money doing it? Go right into that a little bit. Chris: Yes, so the way that it's done pretty much is just focusing on … actually to see and try to pull up the actual charts that I have memorized it off the side of my head but each category will have different types of payouts. And pretty much the way you can … I would say and try and pull it really quick but I have it in front of me … yeah, so the way that I would that is find- Joe: So somebody reviews a product and let's say they're reviewing vacuum cleaners. And someone sells vacuum cleaners on Amazon; obviously, they do. And I'm talking about the reviews on those physical products and someone clicks on the link and goes to buy it on Amazon, I get paid a percentage of that but I never have to own the physical product that's the upside of this right? I get a percentage of the sale but never have to purchase the inventory, correct? Chris: Exactly yup and in pretty much the … and I was trying to find the category here, so every category is different and they'll show you which … what the fees are like I'd give you one example, so if it's outdoor tools for instance that's 5.5% as a percentage that you'll get. And the great thing too is any time that you send someone to Amazon you'll get a commission on any product that they buy while they're on Amazon. So even if you're referring people to vacuum cleaners then you can get sales on other types of these accessories as well within a 24 hour window. That's the cookie blank for Amazon. Joe: Excellent. So I know that with physical products you can get to the top fairly fast. There's different processes and categories and not just on Amazon but if you're selling a physical product all that you need to do is pay some PPC ads for instance with Google Ad Words. It's not a winning formula oddly … obviously all the time but with affiliate how are you getting traction? How are you getting up to page one of the search engines and is it a short term game or is it a long term game? Chris: Yes, definitely more of a long term game. With any website that I'm trying to build out and rank it's more of kind of like we say you're creating content or someone is creating content for you. Looking at what's ranking there and listing okay what can I do that's better than that? And then having someone or doing it yourself. Creating out that content and creating something better. Things that you can do to accelerate the process of trying to rank would be building links and doing things like that. For me most of the time it's more of an emphasis on the content creation side aspect but like in the case of the examples I was referring to before that I sold, I would do things like trying to … because mine was in the tactical category, I try to do things like breaking news within that niche. And I would contact larger sites to say hey this product is available on Amazon now. And like in gadget and other types of sites like that, I had a link back to my site because of doing that. So it's like another way to try and help with getting more link authority from external sites that would help with the content that I was creating for that site. But that's kind of the process that … and I would never do anything like pay advertising for affiliate sites. It's … and I'm not sure if any of Amazon affiliate person out there that's doing that. For me I just … it never [inaudible 00:13:30.0] just because I know that the margins you're getting from the sales of the products you're referring rather. Joe: Yeah. Chris: There's not really enough money actually if I'd like to drive then paid traffic to try and convert that paid traffic. Joe: Right. Chris: Years and years ago people would do just racked paid advertising straight to Amazon's website and you could do that before they banned it but that was like years and years ago. Joe: Got you. Well, they get smarter every year and fix the problems and make it tougher. And the people that are doing it right, I think survive in the long run and knows that cheating to get to the top end up getting kicked to the curb hopefully anyway. Chris: Yeah. Joe: So with an Amazon affiliate site, some people have the impression that if you've got a physical product site that you're constantly managing customer service, constantly managing inventory and that it's a grind, you get to constantly churn out new skews to stay on top of the competition and then, of course, grow beyond Amazon.com to the different countries. It sounds like and some people get the impression that it sounds like, seems like Amazon Affiliate would be build it and let it grow slowly and it's a lot less work. But from what you just said which is breaking news and staying on top of things you're putting in the same kind of effort on a daily basis I would assume with an affiliate business as you are with that physical products business or is that not the case? Chris: It's not necessarily the case. I think it really depends on the niche that you're in because you know it like before we hit recording you mentioned another mutual friend that does Amazon Affiliate things as well. Joe: Yuan Fitzner let's just say his name out loud. So Fitzner it's you and he's a great guy. For anybody who doesn't know him, find him through Rhodium Weekend; he's fantastic. Chris: Yeah so he's probably a good person at all as well but he doesn't do any link building, right? He focuses more on just creating the content and that's similar to the strategy that I do as well. But in the case of the niche that I was in specifically before I sold that site doing that as a strategy was … I knew there was a benefit there. Because I think one time Engadget linked to the site and they didn't change the affiliate link. I think it was like several thousand dollar affiliate fees that they … but in that case, it was more just like here is something that fits- Joe: You didn't point that mistake to the under laying and good backing. Chris: None of it, it's just like tip line and you just say hey here's this product that's out now and people are probably excited about it and it's available on Amazon now. And yes that was a nice little bonus but … so now it was more of like niche specific. I definitely think that … I'm probably more often than not actually. You're building out affiliate sites because I had other sites as well. I have other sites that it's not like that. Where we're not trying to break news or do things like that. It's just more niche specific. Even people in the technical space they don't want to do that approach and they don't have to. I mean that's just kind of the style that we chose for that site. Joe: Okay so good quality content, SEO friendly over the long run and theoretically you'll get rewarded. Is that the basic simplified dumbed down approach? Chris: Yeah I mean it does simplify it but that's really kind of the core. And I think I really emphasize just the differentiation aspect. Like any site that I build it's always like okay I don't really want to enter this area unless I'm willing to do something multiple times better than what's already there. So that's the approach I take for really building any site. Joe: What are some of the mistakes that you've made then in terms of doing these affiliate sites? I mean what did you learn the hard way? Chris: Yeah. So of the some of the mistakes I made was … at least for me personally, I do better having fewer sites and just focusing on doing really well with those sites as opposed to having many sites. Like another [inaudible 00:17:09.7] can find that was Spencer he … years and years ago he used to do like hundreds of niche websites and make money from Google AdSense. For me I never … she was interested in doing that type of approach and systemizing in that way. But for me at least it was just a matter of trying to focus on two small niches and so I can … I think I had one that was on HDMI cable reviews. Which was a fail because that was … HDMI cables are inexpensive and then it's also it's just kind of a small niche and … well, not necessarily a small niche but it was kind of a … it was hard to do well with that one then than some of the other niches I went after. Joe: That could seem like it would change a whole lot over the years either. Chris: Yeah I mean it was … well, that's the change in standards in terms like new for kay, signals and things like that. But yeah it was just like if you can go with higher price items that's helpful right? With the part that I was doing is computers and so it'd be you know … or small laptops rather that would be more of a payout each time. Joe: Okay, I had an example given to me maybe at December, January you know someone that was passionate about … I think it was salt water fishing and writing a blog about salt water fishing and within that doing the affiliate links on the different tackle and lures that you can get with salt water fishing. Would that be an approach that someone could take? You know if I have a passion like that whether it's salt water fishing or basket weaving if you will, to build a site based upon that passion and then just go with that approach? And then the follow up question is all right great how do I learn about SEO as you have over the years? What resources do you have? Because it seems again really simplified to say just build a site that you really are passionate about, find great products, review them, and off you go. But you're still got to build an SEO from this site and write good content that that the … your Google is gonna love, right? Chris: Yeah so going back to the example, I think if you're building out just a site that you're passionate about and then trying to then add Amazon Affiliate as like a monetization … kind of like an add-on, I think it's harder to make Amazon a larger portion of the revenue for that site. If the goal isn't from the start like hey we're going to build out like a more of a review type site as opposed to here's something that we're interested at about just general information and then here is while reading this article happened to may be interested in this specific lure or whatever the example is you gave. Joe: Salt water fishing. Chris: Yeah, so that just from what I've been looking at sites in the past it just seems like that's more challenging. What usually ends up happening in those types of cases, the website owner usually ends up making a larger portion of their money just from banner ads or other types of ad platforms like that and then Amazon is more of a supplemental as opposed to the sites that I build. It'd be more … really focused around the review side of things. And so it'll just be like people that are coming to this content are interested in reviews about this product and so then that traffic is more likely to buy something than people that are just interested in general information come to my site and then they may or may not be in a buying state. Joe: So a clear differentiate is a content site that's just giving information about products in general versus a review site when you're comparing a variety of different products. And when you choose one of those products it's going to Amazon and you get a percentage of that revenue. That'd be, right? Chris: Yeah and I don't think it's a bad thing to do … really your example where you're building out because it's great to generate revenue from ads and just have a lot of traffic as well just from various articles you're writing and all about salt water fishing and then also be able to make money from Amazon with the Affiliate Program. It's just there's two different ways that you might see sites if you're on the buying or building or selling side of things. Joe: Well on those three sides which do you like … do you think, let's just talk about two; building or buying. We had Walker Deibel on the show a couple of weeks ago talking about build versus buy or buy versus build. It's actually in a book. He's coming on the Quiet Light team as an advisor in July. Do you personally in terms of specifically the affiliate space, Amazon Affiliate Space do you think it's better to build or to buy? Chris: Well I've done all of them. Build, buy, sell, every aspect on the Amazon Affiliate Side. I prefer now at least … I've been doing this for a lot longer to … or that depends right? Because it depends on for me at least where my capital might be tied up; either I just recently bought something or I'm doing other investments that are outside the online space and I want it just free of capital. And so I'm not actively looking to buy something or I'm just trying to focus on okay now that I've got that other thing going on but I can try and focus on scaling up all my things and as well. I prefer, if I had to pick one I'd say I prefer building and then being able to sell after that because for me at least I'd like to be able to invest less of my own personal cash. I know you mentioned [inaudible 00:22:18.3] before, [inaudible 00:22:19.4], a lot of the buyers there they don't have access to capital that I don't have access to through … you know people have consider with more money that they can then use as investing partners. And so I suppose if I … given the opportunity I had more capital then I would probably be doing more buying. So I guess it's tough to say. If you don't have cash and you want to just get started then building would make the most sense and maybe you can sell once you get to a certain point. That gives you some capital to either reinvest and build more sites or maybe build or buy other things. But if you have access to capital from … for any reason then buying would be great because you're able to just start with something existing. Joe: How long has it been for you from that build to sell? Do you typically hold something for 12, 24, 36 months? What have you seen? What do you try to set as a goal for yourself when you're building something? I think okay I'm going to build this to eventually sell it if that's your goal, how long do you like to hold it for? Or does it just depend? Chris: Well, a lot of the times it's more just a … it really does depend. Because half the time I do this site … well most of the time actually when I do these sites it's more a matter of I'm building something up, I like the cash flow and that's kind of the main goals is just building our monthly cash flow from various websites, businesses, etcetera. So that's kind of more of what I'm after is just getting more cash flow and then rather than just trying to pull out my capital right away and just to sell. So for me, it's all about the cash flow and I am not always interested in exactly trying to sell. Joe: How many how many balls do you have in the inner; Amazon affiliate wise, how many sites are you juggling now? Chris: If I were to add up all the different sites it'd probably be … I had to look- Joe: You know it's more than a dozen or so when you have to look. Chris: Well, no it's more I was trying to get a specific number. I'll say it's less than a dozen but I also include in that other affiliate sites that just make money from other CPA type offers opposed to Amazon. Joe: Got you. Chris: Because kind of once … for me, Amazon was a starting point. That was kind of how I got into the whole space was building out this Amazon Affiliate Site, I was doing it on the side outside of my working hours in a completely unrelated job and just trying to find a way to earn enough money to do this full time. And then once I started making enough money from Amazon it opened up all these different opportunities to try and do other things as well. And that's one is going to software, creating tools for Amazon Affiliate Sellers or well affiliates rather and doing things like that. Joe: How long has it been since you were thankfully fired from the last day job you had? Chris: Yeah, I was looking it up. Actually, I have it on my calendar October 13th is the day and it was … it will be nine years this year, later this year rather. And then I'll be 10 years the next year but that will be sort of, that'll be what 2000 … I'm trying to think now what the year it is, 2018 so it's 2009 I believe. Joe: 2009. Chris: Yeah. Joe: It's a long time to be self-employed; it's impressive that you pulled that off. Chris: Yeah. And now for me at least it's more of a matter of just further building out multiple different income streams and revenue streams from a variety of different businesses. There's … well, that's a whole other discussion right whether you should focus on just one thing or kind of spread it out. For me, it was more like build something out that starts making cash. And it's like well I don't know if I can really sell this for enough to make it worth selling. It's not going to change my life in any meaningful way so I'll keep it and have someone help me out to run it. Well, that's kind of the approach I'm working with. Joe: So if someone is listening to this and they were in your shoes, you know where you were 10 years ago and they had a day job and they want to do what you've done which is building Amazon Affiliate Sites and make some income on the side what should they expect? Should they … if they pick a category they like, they do a review site, they sign up, they get involved should they … would your expectations that they're going to hit 1 out of 10 on sites that they do, 2 out of 10, 5 out of 10. What would you give them in terms of a ratio so that they can understand and of course these are all ballpark numbers and what kind of money can they really make? I mean we're talking about on the small side a few thousand bucks a month and the people that are big and really experienced at this you know what kind of money are they making? Chris: Yeah you know that's a tough … it's tough I think with the ballpark it's a challenge to give an answer to that because the experiences that people have may lend themselves to be able to be successful more easily. Joe: All right, well look everybody listens to me all right. And they're like Joe you're an idiot but I like you and you know would … I have people tell me like they feel like we're old friends from this nude podcast. But you know me through Brad, we chatted, if I was to do this … let's be specific. You could say … be honest say, Joe, you're going to do 1 out of 10. Just face it, Joe, you're not going to do well. I mean you're the expert what would you guess if people are going to do this with some these in experience on a thing that they love and they're smart and they're going to do research online, they're gonna go to your podcast, they're going to go read everything about Chris Guthrie and figure how you do it. What are they going to do, 1 out of 10, 1 out of 5, what do you think? Chris: Ah if they're learning from me it's going to be 100% right. Joe: You're a humble guy every time okay. Chris: Yeah and though I'd say probably it's … with a lot of things, you get into it and sometimes they'll hit and they'll do well. So for me, the best site that I have was doing over 10k a month. Joe: Okay. Chris: Worst site would be like $300 a month. And that's where I'll be some of the weaker ones and then some are them between where I have a few thousand or so. Hit rate would be more like maybe 25-50% with sites that would be doing pretty well. But it … yeah, it's just really tough to answer that question for me. Joe: You improved that hit rate I would assume with the research that you do upfront. Is that right? I mean just like a physical products business on the web, on Amazon or Shopify whatever it is if you do your research up front; what are the competition price points, how are you going to sell it, things of that nature- Chris: Yeah. Joe: And you're doing the same thing with Amazon Affiliate; you need to pick a product with a great margin, something that you can write about, something that has been up searches online. What tools do you use to help … even if you have a passion for something whether it's worth it on … whether it's worth creating an Amazon Affiliate Business? So are there certain tools that you use to help that hit rate go up? Chris: So well tools for like the research side of things? Joe: Yeah to help ensure that the path that you're going down is going to be as successful as possible. Chris: Yes, I use a lot of SEMrush actually. So I use that tool quite a bit because I just like to pull up a site, see what stuff is ranking well, where they're getting their traffic from and- Joe: Do you have the paid subscription for that or do you just use the free version? Chris: So I fluctuate off and on. So from the process of building or going back to yeah I'd more than all do the paid subscription, and then if it's okay we've got enough stuff on our plate let's just focus on what we have and not create anything new then it's like well I don't really need to pay extra subscription right now. So I fluctuate in and out. Ahrefs is another tool I use as well although that was another one that I just was okay I got a good sense of where our competitors are in their links, where they're getting traffic, and okay I cancel out as well. So it's like- Joe: I always get that one wrong, it's A-H-refs is that right? We did a giveaway when we launched the podcast on an account on a subscription for that but it was Mark's area of expertise. Can you spell it out for me? Chris: Yeah, it's A-H-R-E-F-S.com and I'm not even sure how you're supposed to pronounce that either. Joe: Okay. Chris: So I mean I met someone that works for the company at that conference as well. I didn't bring that up but yeah- Joe: Mumble what they said that'll generally work. If you actually … the way my 16 year old does, he just speaks confidently and I believe him when he's comp … no idea what he's talking about but he speaks confidently. I think that's the trick. Chris: Yeah. Joe: All right so Ahrefs- Chris: Yup. Joe: You went through it and that one is more of what links the sites have right? Is that what you're looking at? Chris: Yeah, so it'd be more like looking at both viewers and the lengths for me. I was merely just trying to see where my key rankings were and so I was kind of more just tracking how it is we're doing. For SEMrush that's why I would use just the tool for research. And the thing is that here's what … the thing with tools and especially the two tools I just mentioned they've been around for years and years and years so they have so many different things that I probably didn't even know. Like I probably didn't even need one or the other it's just like when you get comfortable using one tool for one thing you'd use it for just that one thing. And then you might use this tool for the other thing. But that's kind of what the approach I would do. Joe: Okay. So do that research upfront and what you're looking for is traffic, competition, links, things of that nature before you go down the path to increase success rate, any other recommendations that you'd give somebody just starting off? Chris: Just the main thing I would say is well … I mean if you're looking at what … just looking at larger sites that are doing well. Seeing … I try to reverse engineer a lot. So when you're looking at starting from now that you're doing your research process and seeing what sites are getting in the traffic beyond just like figuring out why are they getting this traffic. Is it because they have a bunch of links pointing at them? Is it because their content is much much better? That's … I guess I keep coming back to this like but it's always for me differentiation. What is it that they're doing that's really doing that is working really well for them and then how can I do better than that? And so in the process of doing that research and looking at that then you're going to see okay it looks like they're using AdThrive or something for their ad platform and then they're using Amazon's Affiliate Program and maybe they're using LinkShare so you link to Walmart and things like that. Joe: From a buyer's side if somebody came to you and said “Hey look I'm looking at buying this site can you give me your opinion on it?” What things should buyers look for that maybe somebody in the Amazon Affiliate Space has done this sort of cheat and it's not going to last, is there anything that stands out that people should be aware of or look for? Chris: It's not because … you want to look at where they … if they are building links you want look at where they're doing it because there's you know PBNs or things like that are definitely more gray area. Joe: If I were … go ahead and say what PBN stands for, please. Chris: Yeah, Private Blog Networks, that's where people build out like huge networks of blogs and then they use links on those blogs and point them at the site. And then those blogs are getting traffic or links part of them as well. So that looks like you're getting links from higher quality sites when in fact they're just sites people would construct pretty much solely for the purpose of pointing links at properties they own or properties their clients own. And I can't remember exactly how long ago it was but Google cracked down and quite a bit. From what I've seen people kind of just got it underground and so it's kind of the [inaudible 00:33:26.3] a lot but … so looking at that is helpful in terms of how a buyer can protect themselves from that. Usually, you're able to use some of these third party tools to help check that out. There's also things where if you're signing an agreement that's saying I haven't used a PBN and then you find out that they are because maybe you're ranking stopped or go down because they've stopped in turning to run that PBN and point the links at you then that's something that you could have legal recourse to go after them. But that might be something out of buying side that included- Joe: Yeah, that's what you definitely don't want to have to do is to go after them after the fact. Chris: Yeah. Joe: Because you're chasing them for money that you gave them which is never a good position to be in. Chris: Yeah. Joe: But certainly doing the research to see where those … where the traffic's coming from and see if there is a PBN and trying to avoid it as much as possible. I think a lot of the times Chris getting to know the person, trusting a broker that's involved if there is one involved, really getting to know the seller in a positive manner. I always recommend whether it's a $35,000 site and it could apply to 3,500 as well, or a 3.5 million dollar site, if you're buying it, it's your money, you worked hard for it, get on a plane, spend an extra thousand dollars stay in a Holiday Inn whatever and meet the person face to face. Do a Zoom or Skype conference call so you can see them and talk to them but meet them face to face before you close the transaction. You can go under LOI in advance but I just don't think there's a better substitute for a handshake, having a lunch or dinner or beer and getting a better feel for them. Of course, you've got to do that due diligence and that research and hire experts like yourself or [inaudible 00:35:14.5] whoever might do the research if you don't have it to protect your money. It's something you worked hard for and I can tell you right now that when you make an investment and you blow it, it's really really hard to pull the trigger again. I know a lot of people that have done that. I know more people that have been incredibly successful and then unsuccessful. But those that thought they knew everything and thought that everybody was kind and trustworthy like they were and they pulled the trigger and something changed in the world, there was a shift with an algorithm update or whatnot and things just fall apart. They can fall apart very quickly. So lots of research meet somebody face to face, use the tools that you're talking about, the Ahrefs and SEMrush, check for PBN things of that nature. You know most people are good but it's the few bad ones that you just want to avoid in my opinion, in my experience. As far as up the top line revenue you think you know if somebody that can do this maybe they're making $10,000 a month that they do really well, how many hours a week are we talking about that is going to take to operate a business of this nature? Chris: It's definitely if … so for I guess it depends. For me, I'll give … I can really only speak to my own experiences. So for that site that like my bigger site that I had before I sold it, it was probably 15 hours a week or so and then the rest of my time was on other projects. So it wasn't like a full time thing because I was doing it outside my day job in the first place and then I only added a little bit more time because then I thought okay well I've got this new time. I don't want to have all my eggs in one basket because now I have no job and just one primary site and then other sites that are also helpful but wouldn't be enough for me to cover my bills and for … at the time I was like okay I just want to make sure I could … I don't have to go back and get a job. Joe: [inaudible 00:37:01.3] Chris: And so that's kind of the approach that I took and it worked for that site. It really depends on me and a lot of times too with Amazon Affiliate Sites especially, you're able to hire out for a lot of aspects of the process of building; either building, maintaining, any aspect to that because it's just content creation and there are a lot of writers that you can find. They can cover that part. And so if you're not doing it yourself and you're finding ways to get yourself out of that process then it can be much further reduced. Now I try and just … for me it was I try to only come up with ideas and then work with people that can help implement a lot of these or to … it's more just about trying to really limit the amount of time I spend on actually like creating content for instance. I might like to write about something on a blog personally but if I can have someone else do it then it wouldn't make sense for you to do that. Joe: Yeah, content creation can take an awful lot of time. Chris, we're running out of time. Can you share any last minute thoughts or recommendations for those that are listening that are either building, buying, or selling Amazon Affiliate Sites; any last minute advice that you would give them? Chris: Yeah, I would just say that … well, actually I'd say if anyone is curious or has other questions feel free to … I would like to say feel free to email me. Joe: You know without a doubt I want to … let's talk about how they reach you. We'll put it in the show notes as well but you know throw out whatever email address, phone number, blog sites, anything you want to share right now I'd be happy to do that. But we'll also put it in the show notes so everybody can find it in writing and get a link there too. Chris: Yeah so to answer your question I'd say decide on what you want to do right? If you're trying to … and everyone probably has a different expertise or where they're at with their life, what they want to do. If you're limited by a capital and you have a lot of money to invest then it may make sense to just simply build something so you can build it up and then come to your brokers like you guys of course and then sell it and that can give you cash that would … you could then use to reinvest and do those things. And that might be something you would do while you're still at your day job. If you're already on a site where you have access to more money then buying something would make sense. And being able to then take where you're at and growing it from there. I'd really just say that decide which focus you want to go with. Make sure you find ways to differentiate. I mean I kind of bring out that this whole time but for me, everything that I've done with any business is always been for me differentiation and finding ways to do much better than the competition. Joe: That seems to be the good … best key word here is just be different. You don't want to be like everybody else; differentiate yourself. Still do all the things right, still build something that people want to come to and trust but differentiate yourself in whatever way that you can. Excellent. Chris, how do people reach you? How do they find you? Share any information you can now so that they can get in touch with you and talk about this. Chris: Yeah, so best place would probably just be UpFuel.com which is my site. We didn't talk about it much but I sell the WordPress plugin that helps people with Amazon Affiliate things as well and that's EasyAzon.com. Joe: EasyAzon.com? Chris: Yeah so if it's … if you're running WordPress and you know a lot of people do of course then that's a software you can use to help with creating links and earning more money from those links as well. Joe: Excellent. I will make sure that link is in the show notes as well. So UpFuel.com, EasyAzon.com anywhere else that you are in the world? Chris: Twitter @chrisguthrie and yeah so that's probably the main ones but I'm happy to … if any … if you're on the buying side and you're just looking for second opinion, I try and I've just done well with trying to provide value and people with no expectation, no return and then things work out so- Joe: I agree. Just help people have good conversations and it comes back around. All right man listen I appreciate it Chris thanks so much for your time. Hopefully, folks that are either building buying or selling Amazon affiliate sites will get some good resources here. Thanks for your time today I appreciate it. Chris: Thanks. Links: Upfuel.com: An up to date article with respect to the Amazon affiliate niche. Easyazon.com: The plugin that a lot of WordPress users install as well (they have over 10,000 installs). AMASuite.com: Discover products and how to differentiate and source them inexpensively.
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Today I'm talking with Maggy Woodley, founder of the blog, Red Ted Art.This is a fascinating conversation where Maggy shares how to be successful on social media. Maggy has built an enormous presence with over over 2.2 million Facebook followers, 406k YouTube subscribers, and 376k Pinterest followers. She also shares the pros and cons of each platform, and why even with such large followings she still cares a lot about (search engine optimization) for traffic. Resources: Red Ted Art AdThrive Kid Blogger Network Group Bloggy Buddies MiloTree Subscribe to The Blogger Genius Podcast: iTunes Google Play Stitcher Transcript – How To Be Successful On Social Media With Maggy Woodley Intro: [00:00:03] Welcome to the Blogger Genius podcast brought to you by Milo Tree. Here's your host, Jillian Leslie. Jillian: [00:00:10] Hey guys. Welcome back to the show. Today, I'm excited. My guest is Maggy Woodley from the blog Red Ted Art. Now, she's been blogging since 2010. She is also an arts educator. Welcome to the show, Maggy. Maggy: [00:00:28] Thank you so much for having me. I love your podcast. I've been listening to it recently. It's really, really informative. Thank you. Jillian: [00:00:35] Oh, thank you. So we've met about a month ago. We've known each other online. I was just looking through one of my Pinterest boards, my group boards and we're on group boards together. Jillian: [00:00:50] We just met in person at the AdThrive conference. I got to sit next to you. You were so lovely. Maggy: [00:00:57] Thank you. It's so nice to have a long chat to you. I love the conference. It was great, and it was so lovely to meet people in person and connect. That's brilliant. Jillian: [00:01:07] Yes. You flew all the way out from the UK to Austin, Texas. Maggy: [00:01:13] Yes. It was so worth it. Nothing beats face to face contact and kind of, like you say, we've known each other for a while online and then suddenly, the penny drops like "Oh, yes. Of course.". Jillian: [00:01:24] Right. Maggy: [00:01:24] Yeah. That's brilliant. Jillian: [00:01:25] Thank you for being on the show. And I want to hear about your story because I'm going to say it, you are a big blogger. You have a big successful blog. Jillian: [00:01:38] To start off, I want to hear your story. How did you get into this? How to accidentally fall into blogging Maggy: [00:01:43] I guess like many bloggers, eight years ago, I was home with a toddler and a baby. I kind of knew that I didn't want to go back to my day job but I knew that I needed to do something to keep myself busy and keep my mind stimulated. Maggy: [00:02:07] I needed something that belonged to me and also something that brought in a little bit of money, not lots of it, so I could contribute to the household and feel like I didn't have to go back to work. Maggy: [00:02:16] I would not have that pressure to go back to work. I actually started off with selling kids' pop art. That's actually where the name Red Ted Art comes from. The blog actually came second. Maggy: [00:02:27] It was this pop art I was selling first. One of these pop art pictures is actually a red teddy . That's where the Red Ted Art comes from. The art was tacked on because redted.com was already taken. That's how the name came about. Jillian: [00:02:48] And were you selling these things on Etsy? What were you doing? Maggy: [00:02:53] It was mainly through word of mouth or going to local craft fairs, that kind of thing. To be honest, I was competing with things like Ikea. It's wonderful, but there's something handmade vs Ikea selling it for five pounds, $10 or whatever it is. Maggy: [00:03:11] It's quite a lot of pressure if you're kind of trying to sell something handmade because you wanted to be really good but by definition, handmade is never going to be what you think is perfect. For other people, it might be. Maggy: [00:03:24] I set up the blog because I was told at the time that if you wanted to sell anything, you needed an online presence. I was building a website. That actually never went live but I was putting a website. Maggy: [00:03:37] Whilst I was building the website, I decided to do the blog. It was quick and easy. It was a really quick way to go online. I thought "Wow. I can't just talk about here's another painting, here's another picture, here's another drawing." It's really boring. Maggy: [00:03:51] There's a sales mantra that I'm sure everyone's familiar with which is in order to sell something, you have to give something away for free. Give them something for free and then, in return, try and sell to them. Maggy: [00:04:02] I was just doing little craft posts because that's fun, it gives me something to do with the children, it's easy, I enjoy it and I've always love crafts. I kind of created my first two, three craft posts. Maggy: [00:04:18] This is much more fun than doing pop art paintings where it's stressful, and you're trying to sell, I need to get it perfect, that kind of thing. I kind of quite quickly saw that actually, the blog was more fun and less pressure. Maggy: [00:04:33] It involved my children because I was working with them at the time. When I was a child, I used to love crafting. As a young person, I was a crafter and as a young adult, I crafted as well. Maggy: [00:04:47] I kind of found my way back to a passion of mine without even realizing that that's where I was going to go with it. Also, very quickly, my hits are slowly going up. This could be something. Maggy: [00:05:02] That's basically how the concept of the blog was born. It was probably a good six months or maybe three months into blogging that I realized I like blogging. I didn't go into blogging thinking I want to blog to make money. Maggy: [00:05:17] I kind of went into blogging as a sort of a bridge to a website. I never launched the website because it is rubbish, and I didn't want to sell the pop art anymore. I just stuck with the blog and haven't looked back since. Jillian: [00:05:30] Wow, I love how, again, you went in one direction and discovered a whole passion that was kind of sleeping. Blogging advice: Just start! Maggy: [00:05:40] Yes, for me, I mean it was just amazing and perfect. Whenever people ask me now, "How do I start off? How to do this? How to do that?" I always say "You know what? Just start. Just go to where life's going to take you." Maggy: [00:05:52] And in the early days of blogging, I did do like a lot of other parenting bloggers, I did have some book reviews and some days out. It was always many crafts. Maggy: [00:06:00] I've kind of experimented with other things but I always came back to crafts. That was very clearly my strength and my passion. Maggy: [00:06:09] I think those people who are trying to start out, just start because you'll quickly find what you like and you'll quickly enjoy that you do this. Does that make sense? Without trying, you're not going to find that part. Jillian: [00:06:23] Absolutely. Maggy: [00:06:23] And I'm so grateful that I tried, and I found this. Jillian: [00:06:27] Yeah. I mean I think it is all about discovery. It is all about putting it out there and then seeing how you respond to it and how other people respond to it. Maggy: [00:06:40] Exactly. There's no shame in starting something and changing direction. It's just I think especially in the early days, you have to give yourself some time to experiment, maybe for six months to experiment. Maggy: [00:06:50] After that, I do think you have to start knocking down though, and going for it because I've seen some very talented people over the years, starting blogs and then rebranding two years later, rebranding two years later. Maggy: [00:07:02] That's quite difficult because you're always starting afresh. I do think once you get going, it's good to stick with it. Jillian: [00:07:09] Okay, so now that you have been at it and you've grown this big business, how similar is it today? How often are you creating crafts, and how do you stay motivated? Maggy: [00:07:21] Yeah, it has changed significantly. In the early days, it was about my children and it was about me and obviously my children featured it in a lot. Maggy: [00:07:33] Then they started school. They came home from school, they were tired , they didn't want to craft and I didn't want to make them. Maggy: [00:07:40] So I'd wait for them and then, I'd wait for the weekend. They still didn't feel like it and then something like, "Oh no. I need that next blog post. What's going on?" Maggy: [00:07:49] For me, it was a transition period from having always had my kids in it and it being about us. And in that sense, being a personal blog about crafts. Transitioning into a craft blog Maggy: [00:07:56] I did make that transition into being a blog about crafts but not always child-made. That was difficult because up until then, I always felt that children should be driving it and then suddenly, it became this whole adult-made versus child-made. Maggy: [00:08:16] I don't know if you're aware of the debate but people often debate "is it alright for an adult to share a child's craft that no child has ever made before?" Once you kind of rap your head around that, then it just kind of took off from there if that makes sense. Maggy: [00:08:30] So it has changed but just because my family life has changed. I think this is what a lot of blogs do because we changed and our children change. Maggy: [00:08:38] Our home changes and in some ways, our story is still wrapped up in that even though it's much more about me now than it is about the kids. I don't think that's a bad thing. I just think it's different. Jillian: [00:08:51] Right. Again, I think that when you are a blogger, your blog is part of your life. I always say, "I'm so curious. In five years, what our businesses will look like?" Maggy: [00:09:05] I have no idea. No idea. Things changed so quickly on the Internet as well, don't they? Jillian: [00:09:13] You discovered social media pretty early so you are very big, for example, on Facebook, YouTube and Pinterest, I'm assuming. So how did you then get onto social media early? Maggy: [00:09:30] Okay, I'm glad you think I got on early because I remember when Facebook first came about, I was a bit baffled by it. I confess. I didn't understand why you would have a page on Facebook. In some ways, I was slow to make that switch. Maggy: [00:09:47] And then when suddenly, again, the penny dropped about how you use social media, then when other things come along like Pinterest and Instagram, I was like, "Oh, actually, you just need to go and run with it." Maggy: [00:09:59] And then also when you then start seeing the traffic coming from the social media platforms, you suddenly saw why somebody saw the value of social media. Maggy: [00:10:08] Now, mostly, I am a massive social media convert. I totally get it. I totally get that you need to do it. That's such a huge traffic driver. But if I'm being really honest, in the very, very early days, it took me a little while to kind of get it. Maggy: [00:10:24] I was lucky enough that that was a long time ago. I mean, it was 8 years ago. How to grow a followings on social media as a blogger Maggy: [00:10:29] I do agree that in some ways, it's much harder now to grow your presence on, say, Facebook but otherwise, it's easier because there's more information out there, and people understand sort of the tricks of the trade a bit better. So I guess, again, it's just different. Maggy: [00:10:45] But to anyone starting out, my tip would be to focus on one platform and really work that platform and not neglect the others completely. I think you need to kind of dabble in all of them but you can transfer a lot of it. Maggy: [00:11:00] So let's say, Facebook's the main one. Do all your work for Facebook whether its video or crafts. And then you just quickly edit it for Instagram or Pinterest. Maggy: [00:11:11] I do think it's important not to neglect any platform completely. You want your eggs in more than one basket. Maggy: [00:11:19] For example, I've had a problem with my Facebook page this week. People might be aware of Facebook just randomly kind of dinging pages and there's no reach. Maggy: [00:11:27] For a week, I couldn't basically use it and then luckily, because my Pinterest is in place, my SEO's in place and YouTube is in place, it was annoying but it wasn't a disaster. Maggy: [00:11:39] Social media is so powerful, it is amazing and I love it but at the same time, we don't own it. We have no control over it. You have to have not all the eggs in one basket. I think this is the sort of the bottom line. Jillian: [00:11:58] What is your biggest traffic driver right now? Maggy: [00:12:02] Right now, it's Google and SEO. That's because I put in a lot of effort in the last year to tidy up my SEO strategy, so to speak. Maggy: [00:12:16] I think it's really important to never forget Google because again, this thing about using Facebook as an example, I had a week where I can't use it, and that's my traffic down. At least I had Google taking over and Pinterest. Jillian: [00:12:30] Could you just say how many followers do you have on Facebook? Maggy: [00:12:34] Just short of 2.4 million. Jillian: [00:12:37] Wow. Wow. Maggy: [00:12:39] And yeah it's crazy now because two years ago, when I had 400,000, you'd get the same sort of traffic. It's a great number but you have to take with a pinch of salt and kind of remember how Facebook behaves unfortunately. Why Facebook is like a bad boyfriend Jillian: [00:12:54] Right. Facebook is like a fickle boyfriend but I feel like Facebook is becoming a worse and worse boyfriend. Maggy: [00:13:03] And unfortunately, we can't get rid of that boyfriend just yet. Jillian: [00:13:08] We're in bad relationships. Facebook never, and I have said this on my podcast, Facebook isn't our sweet spot for Catch My Party. Pinterest is. Jillian: [00:13:20] And so I would meet bloggers like you who are getting enormous amounts of traffic from Facebook. We tried everything and yet, it's just there are certain blogs where it just is a perfect fit. Maggy: [00:13:36] Yeah, I agree. I definitely can't knock anything else. I agree with you. Pinterest is so important, is such a valuable platform and put it into context. Maggy: [00:13:47] I mean my Pinterest following is much smaller. I think it's about 360,000 . I spend a lot less time on Pinterest, and it's driving the same amount of traffic. If not, even a little bit more. Maggy: [00:13:58] But I find Facebook quite useful that I can get something going on Facebook and then, it gets pinned a lot and then, it just becomes stronger. So Pinterest has got that long midterm game, isn't it? Maggy: [00:14:12] If you got a new blog post out, Pinterest won't really pick it up for about three or four weeks. I mean it will but you won't necessarily see a huge difference in that particular blog post whilst Facebook is kind of now. Maggy: [00:14:24] I think that's sort of quite the difference between the two for me. Maggy: [00:14:26] You kind of start off with Facebook now, it kind of gets things going, it goes on to Pinterest, it slowly kind of dispersed amongst Pinterest and then further down the line, it's Pinterest that's giving you the traffic and not Facebook. Maggy: [00:14:39] It's kind of like a little lifecycle of your blog post. I think Pinterest is a really important part of that. Jillian: [00:14:47] Now, where do Instagram and YouTube fit into that cycle? Maggy: [00:14:53] Okay, so Instagram is one of those social media platforms that I'm kind of doing on the side. I kind of spend a bit more time on it now and again and then I forget again a little bit about it. Maggy: [00:15:03] So at the moment, for me, Instagram isn't massive. I know some people who would really excel at it but I feel the sort of return on time investment isn't good enough but then maybe, I haven't spent enough time. Maggy: [00:15:16] It's chicken and egg. If not spending the time, you're not going to see the returns. Maggy: [00:15:20] I can't see it for me at the moment, Instagram, being a massive traffic driver. It's good for community. It's good for like I'm starting to use it to share, to my readers', crafts. Maggy: [00:15:31] When they make mine and they send me photos, I quite enjoy that. That's a nice way to kind of give back but that's sort of something I'm dabbling in. Maggy: [00:15:41] So Instagram to me is "I'm doing it but it's not my main focus." Maggy: [00:15:45] It does help with when you do sponsored work but again, that's not my main focus so it's not so important. Maggy: [00:15:51] YouTube is an interesting one for me . I started it properly about three years ago because I wanted to diversify. I could see that I kind of plateaued a little bit in my blog, and I wanted to get to a new audience. Maggy: [00:16:06] Huge deal for me is about talking to the children directly. How to create a YouTube strategy as a blogger Maggy: [00:16:11] In YouTube, my main audience is sort of eight to 12 year olds whilst Facebook is their parents. Maggy: [00:16:17] For me, that's a really valuable tool because you're kind of getting different sort of feedback. You get feedback from the kids as to what they find easy, what to find difficult. Maggy: [00:16:26] I get really good feedback from that, what they enjoy, what they don't enjoy. Maggy: [00:16:30] For example, five years ago, I wasn't doing any emoji crafts. Now, I am. That's what 10 year old's like, and that's great as long as there's a balance. Maggy: [00:16:40] What I love about YouTube as well is on YouTube, I want to be the crafty auntie with 70 kids who love crafting but they don't have time at it for school. The parents don't like doing it. They have no one at home who does it with them but they love it. Maggy: [00:17:00] And I kind of want to be their crafty auntie that they kind of go to for some ideas and then, they can kind of teach themselves a bit with my help. I can see that my kind of YouTube persona. Jillian: [00:17:11] That's terrific. Now, does YouTube then drive traffic for you? Does it drive brand work or is it just that it is you are the crafty auntie and you feel like these are your children? Maggy: [00:17:26] It is the crafty auntie that's a really big part of it and then getting feedback and ideas, I guess. You could argue. But also it informs my content for my blog. Maggy: [00:17:40] My blog and YouTube are totally interwoven so I'll put a video on YouTube, and I'll do a blog post on it from my blog as well. Maggy: [00:17:50] I guess it is just a different way of driving, not just driving traffic but generating content. Maggy: [00:17:55] You asked earlier on, about how do you keep motivated or interested or how to keep coming up with ideas. I think YouTube was just a fresh way of looking at content, craft ideas and that kind of thing. Can you make money on YouTube? Maggy: [00:18:08] I do a little bit of ad revenue. I would say per thousand views it's significantly less than the blog. I mean I'm earning, and what I get from YouTube is still worth it. But it has takes ages just to get to that level if that makes sense. Jillian: [00:18:25] So yeah, absolutely. Maggy: [00:18:27] It gets frustrating, and that can be very difficult for people just starting out from YouTube, that the monetary gain can be delayed. Maggy: [00:18:39] For me, what I liked about YouTube, thinking about it outloud now, is, for example, origami, which I love, I didn't do a lot of origami on my blog previously because taking photos of 50 steps and editing them, so boring. Maggy: [00:18:54] A nice little video, it's really quick, really easy and you explain it. It changed my content on my blog purely because I had a different way of sharing how to make something. Maggy: [00:19:07] That's being quite fun because it's opened up kind of a new area of crafting because some things are difficult to explain just using words and three pictures. Jillian: [00:19:20] Totally. Maggy: [00:19:21] And the video is a really nice way of being able to go "actually just take a look, it's really easy." Jillian: [00:19:27] You are on a variety of platforms. You're making video. What does your schedule look like, and do you have a studio setup in your house? How to set your schedule up to be a full time blogger Maggy: [00:19:37] So in terms of schedule, I do consider myself a full time blogger. This is my job and I do roughly work, let's see, from 8:20 when the kids go to school from 8 to about 3 or 3:30. Maggy: [00:19:52] I do have an hour's lunch break, whether for walk, for exercise, Pilates or whatever but on the whole, I do have sort of regular working hours everyday and in those regular working hours, for example, I would not do housework because I need to do my work if that makes sense. Maggy: [00:20:07] It's like a little rule. I don't go near the washing machine or anything like that. I do that when the kids are home because a) they need to see that that kind of stuff happens and b) because these are my working hours. Maggy: [00:20:18] I take my working hours quite seriously in that sense and then, outside of that I'll probably still ad another hour here or there where I do a bit extra. Maggy: [00:20:28] I think if you add that up, it is pretty much a full time job but it's a full time job that really flexible. Maggy: [00:20:34] For example, I can't take holidays and obviously manage my time around that and things like that so I find it really hard saying exactly how many hours a week I do but it's not insignificant. Maggy: [00:20:46] In terms of setup, I have a little office which is great. I have like a mini video set up which is actually in my bedroom because that's got a really big window, and it's got a desk. Maggy: [00:21:00] Although, I have some lights as well, I kind of can leave out, and it's the only place in the house where I've got the space, and I can leave things out. Maggy: [00:21:09] I think, again, that being able to leave things out is quite key in terms of things like video production, probably photo production too because you ' re not having to clear this space each time. You're not having to -- Jillian: [00:21:21] Pull out the equipment. How to Create Video for YouTube as a Blogger Maggy: [00:21:23] Exactly. And it makes a huge difference. I can go where I'm just going to do a quick video, and I'll go over, and I'll just do a quick video and then I'll just come back and carry on, writing. Because you can. Maggy: [00:21:33] Whereas before, I used to have some of that kind of wait and get things out. So I'm very lucky that my husband's very tolerant of the fact that our bedroom is also a mini studio. Jillian: [00:21:44] That's great. So what do you say to yourself, "this week, I am going to create three posts, two videos." How does that come to you? Maggy: [00:21:57] Yes, I do have a schedule, and I think it's simply because YouTube is like any social media. You're kind of rewarded for consistency so I do have in my head, "I need to do two videos a week." Maggy: [00:22:10] For a year, I did three a week and then, I cut back to two, and that's been fine. Maggy: [00:22:17] Those two slots so to speak, drive my production or productivity and interestingly enough, I used to have two blog posts a week with Red Ted Art so when I built up the blog, I always had this goal of two a week or more, obviously. But it had to be a minimum of two a week. Maggy: [00:22:35] The same with YouTube, it has to be a minimum of two a week. And it doesn't mean that some weeks, I'll do something that isn't that good. Maggy: [00:22:43] And some people could argue, "Well, maybe it's better for you. You only put good content out." The other side, I'll argue that sometimes, I'll put something out that I think is not good and then it just takes off. Jillian: [00:22:56] I know. That's the most fascinating part of the Internet. Maggy: [00:23:01] So you know what? My two a week is really powerful because I'll sit down and go, "I haven't got a video and I really need a video week. I haven't got today's video yet," and I'll go "I just got to do something" and then I'll just do something, and I'll do my best video and then, that will inform, I don't know, some other ideas, spin off ideas of the back. Jillian: [00:23:20] So are the videos and the blog post related or is this two separate crafts that are blog post, two separate crafts that are videos? Maggy: [00:23:28] They will always be related. The blog actually now has about four posts a week because I have my two on YouTube and I'll put most of my YouTube videos on the blog. Not all of them but most of them. Maggy: [00:23:41] And then on top of that, I'm continuously working on SEO for Red Ted Art. For example, I'll have those two YouTube videos and then a blog post to go with them. Maggy: [00:23:52] I did a mermaid craft. They'll be on the YouTube channel and on my blog but then, I'll also need work on a round up, kind of rehashing old content in new ways or might republish an old blog post or I might have somebody who really wants to do me a guest post. Maggy: [00:24:10] "Yeah, great. I love a guest post. Brilliant. I'll have that up." Sometimes, I'll even have five posts go out on Red Ted Art in a week which I personally find I'm quite overwhelmed by it because I need to do two. Maggy: [00:24:22] It's so much content, I can't keep up. There's always so much to do. There's always so much that you kind of want to grab and go for and do the next thing. How to Jillian: [00:24:35] How do you then like edit the video and then repurpose all this content for social? What's your process? Maggy: [00:24:43] So with the video, I film it. I film the make and then, I go back and do a little introduction with the finished product and then, I'll take the camera stand down and then I'll do photos for both the YouTube thumbnail but also with Pinterest and the blog in mind. Maggy: [00:25:04] So the process involves both at the end. It starts off with a video but the photos that also need to be done for Pinterest and for the blog. And then, also I've recently had an app, I can't tell you the name right now because I hid my phone so that doesn't ring during the podcast. Maggy: [00:25:22] But I got an app where you can then do screen shots of the video quite quickly. I'll use the screen shots just to add a couple of steps into the blog post but the video is still a key way to explain and make on the blog . Maggy: [00:25:38] But I'll also have a written description plus some steps so it's always interwoven. The blog posts could mostly be standalone without videos as well now. Maggy: [00:25:50] For a while, we really needed the video to be able to do the craft whilst now, I'm trying to kind of come up with an in-between group because some people are offline, and they want to make something. Maggy:[00:26:03] I do create a craft now with both in mind, what YouTube needs and what Pinterest and the blog needs. It took me a while to kind of come to that to think I was YouTube-ing for good year and totally neglecting Pinterest. That wasn't good. Maggy:[00:26:21] And then, when I'm working with my SEO, I'll suddenly get "Oh, I have a gap. Toilet rolls are really important from my blog. I need to create some toilet roll crafts and then, I'll try and come up with something that's suitable for my YouTube viewers and my blog." Maggy:[00:26:34] So they do definitely work together now which they didn't before. They were a bit more separate but SEO will drive YouTube, YouTube will drive the blog because I need a blog post. Maggy:[00:26:46] And then as long as I'll remember to then have some photos for Pinterest, I'll occasionally take some square ones for Instagram but it's not as important. Maggy:[00:26:52] I can just crop the other ones. But yeah, that's how I'm working at the moment. I'm thinking I should do in a square video and stick on Instagram. Jillian: [00:27:03] Your process is amazing. And do you have help? Do you have people who work with you who are editing your videos or doing social media for you? How to run a successful Facebook page with over 2 million followers Maggy: [00:27:16] I have. I have help. And as far as that, I have fellow bloggers help me with my Facebook page in that. I've given them like 5:00 timeslot or the 6:00 timeslot and they'll fill that for me everyday. Maggy: [00:27:29] But I would say, I'm still doing half of Facebook and they're kind of doing the other half for me. Because on Facebook, I'm posting 12 to 20 posts a day. I kind of need that help so I'm doing 8 to 12 myself. Maggy: [00:27:44] To be honest, at the moment, I'm still doing it myself. I'm trying to be clever and work smarter, not harder. That's my big downfall right now which I think a lot of us might be able to relate to. Maggy: [00:27:59] I do deal with it myself, and I know I shouldn't. But I'm very particular about my Pinterest images. I'm very particular. It's really hard to let go. Jillian: [00:28:08] It is really hard to let go. But I have to tell you, in my own experience, I've had to start letting go, I had to start hiring people, and it is ultimately a positive thing. How to hire good people to help you with your blog Maggy: [00:28:24] Yes. Yes. I think the problem is I feel that I'm coping. Because I feel that I'm coping, I find it hard to let go. I think if I felt overwhelmed but then when you're overwhelmed, you don't have time to hire someone. Maggy: [00:28:36] I mean I think what I need to do is hire somebody young and train them up and have here every day. Maggy: [00:28:45] I think that's my problem is that I've dabbled in. I've dabbled in VAs and I've dabbled in people writing. They did a round up for me, and it will be really good. It's not that they haven't been effective or anything. Maggy: [00:28:57] It's just more case of I think by giving them just a little bit here and there, they can never really work themselves into my way of thinking. And I do think if you're going to outsource, you are going to have to really be committed to it so the dabbling hasn't helped me. Maggy: [00:29:11] It's kind of put me off rather than just going actually "You know what? I need to put an ad in the paper and go for hire, and I'll get somebody aboard probably." right. Jillian: [00:29:19] Well, in the training, training somebody to think like you takes a while. Maggy: [00:29:24] Yes. Yes. And then, it has that nervousness that you spend six months training them up and then, they leave. Jillian: [00:29:29] Yes. Yes. I have an assistant, for example, and we actually now can kind of finish each other's sentences. Maggy: [00:29:42] Wow, that's amazing. Jillian: [00:29:43] And by the way, she lives in Portugal, and we are just on Slack all day. Maggy: [00:29:49] Okay, so you work remotely. That's amazing. I love that. Jillian: [00:29:50] Yeah. And then like because on Slack, for example, we can call each other so when we talk, we're like "I can't believe you're not down the block.". Maggy: [00:30:02] Wow, okay. Jillian: [00:30:02] "I can't believe you're halfway around the world." Maggy: [00:30:06] How did you find her? Jillian: [00:30:08] We had done work. She had done work for Catch my Party, and we became friends. She was pregnant, and she was having a baby and so we just stayed. Now, that baby is I think five. And so we just stayed in touch. Jillian: [00:30:24] She's a designer. She'd created some printables for us. And I just loved working with her. So one day, she said she was looking for to do more. I said "Do you want to work with me?" Maggy: [00:30:38] Brilliant. Brilliant. I love it. Jillian: [00:30:40] Again, it was organic and it's like she is like half my brain. Maggy: [00:30:46] Brilliant. My problem is I know some really good bloggers I would love to work with more but they've got their own blogs. They are so busy, and that's my problem. I know some amazing people I'd love to hand over some work to. Maggy: [00:30:58] I know it would take some of it off me but at the end of the day, they've got their own websites and their own projects. Maggy: [00:31:06] That's the thing, it's finding that sort of external person to it, who doesn't necessarily want to do their own but just love being involved. That's given me an idea so I'm glad we've had this conversation. Jillian: [00:31:21] I have to say, the letting go is difficult at first but then, when you see how much more you can do. Or here's the other piece, you've got a thought partner. So when she comes to me, it goes "I think we need a blog post about this" and I'm like "Oh my god. That's brilliant." Maggy: [00:31:43] Yeah, that's a very, very valid point. That's why I agree. It's amazing. Jillian: [00:31:46] So you're not just up in your own head. Maggy: [00:31:49] Yeah. And you do have somebody to discuss latest issues and kind of bloggy-ish problems because it's always the little things going on that the kind of the real life people don't necessarily get. Jillian: [00:32:02] Exactly. And also, for example, when we came back from our conference, you and me, and we learned new techniques for Pinterest immediately. I'm like talking to her and going "Here's what I've learned", it gives me all these ideas but like it's hard for me to execute. Jillian: [00:32:20] To say "let's go this way" and she'll be like "great" and then add her spin to it. If you find the right person, that one plus one is more than two. Maggy: [00:32:32] Yes, I agree. Jillian: [00:32:33] Now, it can be that one plus one is like one and a half. Maggy: [00:32:37] Yeah. Yeah, but then it has to be with the right person, I guess, right? Jillian: [00:32:41] Exactly. Exactly, so it is all about finding the right person. Maggy: [00:32:47] Yeah, I agree. Traffic sources as a blogger Jillian: [00:32:48] Okay, so when we were talking about kind of all these social networks that you're on and stuff, we were going through your traffic sources and you were saying that SEO is first. And you said Facebook and Pinterest are somewhat even, although Pinterest might be a little bit higher. Maggy: [00:33:09] Yes, they kind of level each other and then I think overall, Pinterest, I mean I haven't looked at it recently and I don't look at the full year but Pinterest probably will do better over time. Maggy: [00:33:20] If you have a Pinterest viral, as you know, that's just amazing whilst if you have a Facebook viral, you'll get most traffic from it but not in the same way as a Pinterest viral. Jillian: [00:33:29] Okay. What do you mean by that? Maggy: [00:33:31] So if I have a post that say has been reshared 40,000 times on Facebook, which I hasten to add is not often. I'll get some lovely traffic from it because people on Facebook like to consume on Facebook. Maggy: [00:33:46] It's quite hard for it to get them to click through. I mean they do click through, statistically speaking, but I suspect, I'm just making this up, that only 30 percent of Facebook users click through whilst probably 90 percent of Pinterest, users click through. Maggy: [00:34:01] Pinterest users are there. I mean yes, they're browsing a lot and getting visual ideas, visual inspiration. Obviously, that's what Pinterest is. Maggy: [00:34:09] But I think Pinterest people do want to click through and get the full information while as from Facebook, it's almost like the more they can consume on Facebook itself. So 40,000 pins would get me much more traffic than 40,000 shares on Facebook. Jillian: [00:34:27] Yes. Now, does YouTube drive traffic? Maggy: [00:34:30] A little bit. Not hugely. Mainly, the main traffic I get from YouTube is if I have a printable to go with a certain craft. Maggy: [00:34:40] Because YouTube, because it's my kids there, I do put printables on there but, I don't put too many because I feel it's a little bit unfair because they didn't all have access to printers. Maggy: [00:34:52] I try not to overload my YouTube channel with the printables as such. I do try and do a lot of stuff where they can learn how to make it literally from scratch. Maggy: [00:35:02] Sometimes, I'll go "Here's how you make it from scratch. If you find it easier, here's it printable" so you could argue there's choice. But yeah, I get a little bit of traffic from YouTube but not tons. Jillian: [00:35:14] So then my next question is how do you monetize? Maggy: [00:35:22] For both the blog and YouTube it is mainly ad revenue, and I have to say, I love ad revenue. I think it's brilliant because it feels like this passive income. Maggy: [00:35:32] I have no guilt about ads because I feel I'm offering a lot, everything for free. And if you just have to look at an ad whilst you're kind of [00:35:38] passing, [0.0] that's fine as far as I'm concerned. Maggy: [00:35:42] I don't want to be ads to be intrusive obviously but equally, I think if they're fine. Ad revenue is a big thing. Maggy: [00:35:49] We talk about [00:35:51] AdThrive earlier on. I mean, that, for me, was a game changer. Google AdSense doesn't even compare. AdThrive transformed my income. It's amazing. Thank you, AdThrive. Maggy: [00:36:11] YouTube is similar in that sense that it's actually Google Adsense on YouTube but the revenue is much lower. I have a lot of Indian viewers on YouTube and again, as with AdThrive, I'm sure certain countries are more profitable than others. Maggy: [00:36:28] In India, for example, it's less profitable but I still like it as a place. I mean, I enjoy those viewers so there's nothing wrong with that but it just means that the revenue is lower. Maggy: [00:36:39] I do a little bit of sponsored work so working with brands and stuff but it was not my main driver. I do a little bit of affiliate marketing but again, I'm not really good on sales. I'm not a big salesperson. Maggy: [00:36:53] I do feel I need to change up a bit because I do have a great, great, really strong audience. There's some really great products out there, and I probably should make more about bringing those two together. But at the moment, it's ad revenue and that basically means I just totally focused on sort of page user statistically. Jillian: [00:37:11] Got it. What do you do then? How do you deal when you wake up in the morning and Facebook has somehow changed its algorithm, and thank goodness, this most recent one was only like it affected your traffic for about a week, but how do you not internalize that and go "oh" or "yay" because I struggle with that? Maggy: [00:37:33] Yeah, it is really hard. I'm "lucky" that Facebook has been tinkering with the algorithms, I think, since 2014 or something. The heyday of Facebook has long been over, and they've been making it, as far as I'm concerned, more and more difficult for years now. Maggy: [00:37:58] So I think if I'd gone for my heyday of 2014 to a week of no traffic, it would have been devastating but because Facebook has been turning off the tap bit by bit. It was obviously disappointing but I've heard about this. Maggy: [00:38:16] Literally, it's a seven day problem. It was literally to the minute. Once the seven days were over, the page was back and because I knew about other pages that this has happened to. Maggy: [00:38:34] When it came to me, I was just like "You know what? It was bound to happen at some point. It's happened now. Let's pray, it's a seven day bug. Just move on." Maggy: [00:38:47] I was lucky, touchwood. I mean it only got lifted this morning so we're still early days. I think because Facebook's been a difficult platform to work on for a while. You just have to let go. How to deal with traffic swings as a blogger Maggy: [00:39:01] Yeah, that's the only way I can describe it. It's a love-hate relationship, Facebook. Quite honestly, it's very frustrating platform. But what can you do? We don't pay for it. We don't own it. They do. Jillian: [00:39:16] Right. Yes, it's a good lesson. I think that traffic in general or like I will go for weeks and not check our Google Analytics because I find it's really hard for me to separate my emotions or my fears from my Google Analytics. Maggy: [00:39:40] You're quite right. Especially in the summer months, I'll avoid looking at it because in the summer months, which is my quiet period, I don't know if it's the same for you, it can be can be depressing. Maggy: [00:39:50] But I think also with having been blogging for about eight or nine years I've also learned that it is seasonal. The highs of Christmas is not the norm. They are generally a high and if I assume that my summer traffic is normal and everything else is a bonus, it's much easier to deal with. Jillian: [00:40:11] Yeah. So in fact, for us, weirdly, our traffic is like the highest for Halloween. It dies for us between Thanksgiving and Christmas. Maggy: [00:40:26] Wow. Really? Jillian: [00:40:27] It's just super weird but it happens every year. Every year, I fear that we're going out of business. Maggy: [00:40:35] I know what you mean . When you see that drop, you're like "Haa!" and then, somehow, kind of the following year, it comes again. Jillian: [00:40:41] It comes back. Yes. Maggy: [00:40:43] Like I remember this September, thinking "in September, everything's good again" and then the first week in September, it was still a bit low. Maggy: [00:40:51] And then in the second week, panic, panic and then by the end of September, we were off again. But I know what you mean. During my peak seasons, I find that probably more stressful than the low seasons now because I've kind of made my peace with the low season. Maggy: [00:41:10] The peak season is when I'm like "I need to make more money now." Jillian: [00:41:15] Yes, but there is something about letting go. There is something about trusting like "Okay, maybe our business is over but we're smart. We could come up with something else.". Maggy: [00:41:29] Yes, I think you're right. Again, I'm not sure how it works with Catch my Party but I know, for example, with Red Ted Art, certainly for the next year or two, unless something really awful happens, I will have a base income. Maggy: [00:41:44] I know I'll get at least, let's say, a third of what I'm earning right now. And if I look at that as a number, I'm like " You know what?" The blog is at the size now where that is still a good number. Maggy: [00:41:57] I think you just have to, and I do say to my husband constantly, we just need to make hay while the sun shines, save as much as possible, put as much as possible aside and then, what will be will be. And I'd like to keep it going for as long as possible but who knows? Jillian: [00:42:20] Yeah. Well, it's one of those things about being an entrepreneur is you don't know. Maggy: [00:42:26] And I do think it's important to constantly add strings to your bow so YouTube was an example with three years ago, I wasn't really doing it and now, I am. Maggy: [00:42:35] In terms of looking forward, I'm considering. I haven't got any concrete plans but you're looking at what products you could have, maybe physical ones, apps or there's a lot of ebooks around. Maggy: [00:42:50] You do have to kind of just keep adding strings to your bow and then as one drops off, the next one hopefully takes its place and you move on. Jillian: [00:42:58] And that was our story with MiloTree. We built MiloTree for ourselves. We didn't think this would be a business. Then all of a sudden, it really worked and we thought "Wow". Jillian: [00:43:08] We had that moment of like "Can we be in the app business?" This is a whole different market. We're selling to bloggers and entrepreneurs whereas Catch my Party is all about moms throwing parties. How do we make sense of that? And then we're like, "Well, why not?" Maggy: [00:43:28] I mean, it's genius. I love MiloTree as an example. I think it's a really good example where like you say, created it for need you had yourself and then, it created a new income stream or business for you. Maggy: [00:43:43] It's looking at things like that. I'm always keeping my ear open for blogger problems and blogger issues. I've got a friend who's an amazing developer, and I know he's interested in developing something. It's just figuring out what that something is. Jillian: [00:43:56] Exactly. And it's just kind of like tapping into yourself, for me, it is about questioning your assumptions and saying "Could I do this? Maybe I could. Maybe I should try that" and kind of going, following a couple of your almost crazy ideas and seeing like "Could that pay off? Could this be something? I don't know." Maggy: [00:44:22] Yeah, and I think if you don't try, you'll never know. And I think that's the main thing. For example, it's funny, I just mentioned about the developer. I said to him "Look, can we create a rival newsletter platform?" Maggy: [00:44:36] We had a big chat about it, and we decided we wouldn't though because ConvertKit is just amazing and competing purely on price isn't worth it but then, "Yeah, but what else is there?" Maggy: [00:44:44] It opens up conversation so even though, maybe it's a bad example because I said I haven't actually tried a newsletter platform because that's a huge project but I initiated the background conversation and talked to an expert. It's exploring different options. Maggy: [00:45:02] Again, it might lead you to something else and I think it will because he said "But you know what, Maggy? I don't think the newsletter is a brilliant idea just because competing on price isn't a good enough reason. I think there's something we can do together. I know there is. Maggy: [00:45:16] We just have to come up with ideas." So now, I've got that sort of strength that there's someone there who believes in everything I'm doing and really wants to work with me. Maggy: [00:45:25] He said that. He said "I really wanted to do a project with you. We just need to figure out what that project is." It was a month ago . Two weeks ago, we spoke so this sort of thing, you just kind of get it. If you have any problems, please tell me. Jillian: [00:45:37] Exactly. Email Maggy. Definitely. So Maggy, what are you most excited about that you're working on or that you're planning to work on? Maggy: [00:45:48] Well, it's a tricky one for me because [00:45:52] back to this thing [0.0] about having an assistant or somebody to work with is I'm so lost in the day job. Maggy: [00:45:59] I don't often take enough time back, step back to go "Okay, what's the bigger picture?" And I think I sometimes use that as an excuse. What is constructive procrastination? Maggy: [00:46:08] I love the term "constructive procrastination." Jillian: [00:46:13] I've never heard that. I love it. Maggy: [00:46:15] Yeah, you're basically very, very, very productive. You're not doing the things you should be doing. So back to me, turning out five blog posts a week. That's really productive but I'm still procrastinating on the bigger picture. That's my challenge. Maggy: [00:46:34] One thing I'm looking at is obviously making more of my newsletter again. This is from the AdThrive conference. And again Facebook having just given me that week off, so to speak, kind of forces that. Maggy: [00:46:46] I'm much more positive about my newsletter, for example, and making more of it and using it as more of a tool to connect with people and encouraging them to do things like send me their photos or stuff they've made themselves. Maggy: [00:47:00] I have to confess. Beyond that, it's kind of carrying on what I'm doing and maybe coming up with a killer idea that my [00:47:10] developer friend [0.0] and I can work on. I'm quite confident we will think of something. The question is just when. Jillian: [00:47:17] Right. Now, given that you've been at this for a while, What advice would you have for somebody who is just starting out where today, it's not as easy to grow your Facebook followers or something like that but you should use Milo Tree because it will help. Jillian: [00:47:37] What would you say to somebody who comes to you and says "I want to do what you do. I want to start something on my own"? Advice: Believe in yourself as an entrepreneur Maggy: [00:47:47] Yes. I think there are a few things. Not sure how many points I want to make. Let's see, the first one is just believe in yourself. I know it's such a cheesy thing to say. It's such a cliche thing to say but it's so important. Maggy: [00:48:00] I mean I have a lot of teachers who read my blog. I know they love it. In fact, I got an e-mail today from a teacher at school, asking me to come in and make her wedding bouquet with her class. That is such a sweet thing I know. Maggy: [00:48:15] And then coincidentally, the deputy head, also from the same school, emailed me today saying, "Can you come in for our Health and Wellbeing day and run some craft sessions?" Maggy: [00:48:24] I know I've got teachers you've totally got my back. But also, in my early days of blogging, I had teachers or teacher friends who've kind of questioned my ability to teach and that made me unconfident about certain things I was doing at the time. Maggy: [00:48:38] I think I was really enjoying doing so I had like a Kids Get Arty series, looking at Goldsworthy or Andy Warhol or whatever. Maggy: [00:48:48] I think if you're passionate about what you're doing and you believe in yourself, what you produce will be amazing. Maggy: [00:48:56] I think that's one big thing is this: Don't let other people make you feel that you can't for whatever reason, whether you're in a cooking blog and you're like "I'm not a chef. I've never trained." It doesn't matter because if you're passionate about it, you'll be doing a good job whatever you're doing. Maggy: [00:49:10] That's the first thing is to really not let other people question you in that sense and then other things are more pragmatic. Advice: Understand SEO as a blogger Maggy: [00:49:19] I think my blog, right from the word go SEO, I didn't understand it early on. I had some really weird blog titles like "Red Ted get stuck in" instead of describing what the craft's about. Maggy: [00:49:33] You can make really nice art titles. Have fun with titles but they mean nothing in SEO terms. I do think paying attention to SEO from as early on as possible is important. Maggy: [00:49:44] You don't have to necessary get bogged down in the detail of SEO. You can learn about SEO as yo go along but if you have basic structures in place like a good blog post title - Jillian: [00:49:57] I just want to stop for one second. I think what you're saying is to not have some like "This is awesome" post-title but to say "How to make a wedding bouquet with tissue paper flowers?" Maggy: [00:50:13] Exactly. Yes, not go for the sort of nice, journalistic titles but go for informative titles. So whether it's SEO, Pinterest or Facebook, if it's informative, people know what it's about. Maggy: [00:50:26] You've got to remember that your blog is a bit like a magazine and yet you're kind of on a shelf in a news agency and you're fighting for people to pick up your magazine, look inside your magazine and find out more. Maggy: [00:50:37] If the cover image is confusing and the title is confusing, they won't necessarily pick it up. Not because it's not nice, just because they won't. Maggy: [00:50:47] I think it really tricky to a newer blogger to say "You need to do this, this and this" because it can be really overwhelming. So I do think, just get started. Maggy: [00:50:56] Generally, my advice to people is consider the basics of SEO which are things like a good title. Consider your images. Don't put things on your blog that are two megabytes in size, try and keep them small. Jillian: [00:51:11] And that's so that your blog loads quickly because speed matters. People will click away if they're waiting for your images to load. Maggy: [00:51:24] Exactly, so this is a quick loading but also, you're then carrying around round a lot of weight that you're paying for because it has more bandwidth being eaten up by that visitor because it's taken that long for that image to load. Maggy: [00:51:36] The images don't have to be physically smaller but the file sizes need to be smaller without going into too much techno-speak. Maggy: [00:51:42] There's a whole thing about being conscious that there is social media out there and that Pinterest, for example, does prefer portrait and that Instagram, for example, does prefer a square and that Facebook is somewhere in between. Maggy: [00:51:54] I prefer landscape from editing visual point of view because I find that it doesn't take up your whole page in terms of image. You kind of need to have a mix of images to kind of address different needs of the audience, finding in different ways. Maggy: [00:52:11] You can take the same picture but have it landscape and portrait. That usually will do the trick to begin with and then as your blog grows and you learn, you get better photography and you get better at your printable images and you get better. Maggy: [00:52:25] But I think to avoid overwhelming people with information, just have one of each, a landscape one, a portrait one. Watermark everything. Things get lost on the Internet. Jillian: [00:52:39] Wait, can you explain what a watermark is? Maggy: [00:52:45] On my images, I have very lightly written Red Ted Art in the corner so that places like Pinterest, often, images will get mispinned so to speak and the link will get broken so there's a lovely image of your craft and when people click on it, it just doesn't come through to you. Maggy: [00:53:05] If you have a watermark on it, at least they can type into Google. "Okay, so it's Red Ted Art." There's a giraffe so I'll just put "Red Ted Art giraffe" and then with a bit of luck, they'll find that craft again. Maggy: [00:53:16] Obviously, there's also a little bit about [00:53:17] online theft [0.2] but that's another issue. But just from a simplistic point of view, I always like to call it "the images get lost". If you watermark, you provide a trail back to your website, and people are more likely to come back to you. Jillian: [00:53:33] Oh, well, Maggy, this has been so delightful. I so enjoy it when we chat. I just learn from you. I love your honesty, so how can people reach out to you? Maggy: [00:53:49] Anywhere. They can email me info@redtedart.com or they'll find me on social media, Facebook but in groups usually, I think, were more active. I didn't know people are aware of things like The Kid Blogger Network or Bloggy Buddies. Maggy: [00:54:05] I think, again, new bloggers should try and join blogging groups. Advice: Join blogging groups Jillian: [00:54:09] And these are on Facebook? Maggy: [00:54:10] On Facebook. There are some really good blogging groups or if you've got a friend that blogs, ask them about what groups they're in. I think it's a really good, helpful. Maggy: [00:54:21] But if you're trying to get to me personally info@redtedart.com or leaving me a comment on Instagram oddly, considering I've said it's not that important of a platform. Maggy: [00:54:31] I usually see all the comments in Instagram whilst I don't see any comments on Facebook because it's so busy on Facebook. Jillian: [00:54:38] Awesome. Maggy: [00:54:42] Thank you so much for having me. It's been really nice to chat with you. I feel like you might be so far away from me but we're friends, and it's lovely. Jillian: [00:54:50] Are you trying to grow your social media followers and email subscribers? How to get free followers on Instagram fast Jillian: [00:54:55] Well, if you've got two minutes, I've got a product for you. It's MiloTree. Jillian: [00:54:59] MiloTree is a smart popup slider that you install on your site, and it pops up and asks visitors to follow you on Instagram, Facebook, YouTube, Pinterest or subscribe to your list. Jillian: [00:55:14] It takes two minutes to install. We offer a WordPress plugin or a simple line of code, and it's Google friendly on mobile and desktop. Jillian: [00:55:27] We show a Google friendly popup on desktop and a smaller Google friendly popup on mobile. Check it out. Sign up today and get your first 30 days free. Sign up for MiloTree now and get your first 30 DAYS FREE!
Today I'm speaking with Kevin Espiritu from the blog, Epic Gardening. Kevin and I discuss how to hire the right people to grow your business faster, the importance of SEO for bloggers, how to monetize your blog if your mission is to teach 10 million people how to grow their own food, and how you can really make a living as a poker player. Resources: Epic Gardening Book in a Box The eMyth Revisited Catch My Party MiloTree Some of these links may be affiliate. Subscribe to The Blogger Genius Podcast: iTunes Google Play Stitcher Transcript – How to Hire the Right People to Grow Your Business Faster Intro: [00:00:00] Hey, everyone. Welcome back to the show. Today, my guest is Kevin Espiritu from the blog Epic Gardening. Now, Kevin is a gardener, a website owner and a student of life. He is teaching 10 million people how to grow their own food. So welcome, Kevin. Kevin: [00:00:22] Hey, welcome, Jillian. Thanks for having me on. Jillian: Okay, I was reading up on you, and you have had a very interesting path, and I'd love you to share how you got into gardening and building online communities and an online business. Kevin: [00:00:40] Sure, yeah. I guess it depends on how far we want to go back, but it is kind of a long story. I was in school. I went to University of California, Santa Barbara, and was kind of on the track to become an accountant out of all things. Yeah, I know that's the reaction I have now. Jillian: [00:00:58] Well, just meeting you, I just don't see that. Kevin: [00:01:01] Yeah. And I don't know why I ever saw it myself. I think it was one of those things where you're asked to choose what you want to do for your life when you're 18 and you just pick a generic major and sort of see where it goes. Kevin: [00:01:14] I ended up playing actually online poker in school, and that started paying the bills. It got to the point where I was making more than I would make as an accountant so I said obviously the next question would be why would you be an accountant then. How to go from professional poker player to professional blogger Jillian: [00:01:28] So you were making real money playing poker. Kevin: [00:01:31] Oh, yeah. Yeah, I was studying the game because it's unlike many other gambling games. There's actually an element of skill in it. You're playing against other players and not the house. You actually can win long term. Jillian: [00:01:46] That's funny. I had just read that, that it's not exactly a game of chance. Kevin: [00:01:51] It's a mix so everything else in the casino is going to be a pure game of chance. Obviously, like blackjack, there's a strategy but you still can't beat the house unless you're counting cards. Kevin: [00:02:02] With poker, you're playing against other human beings. The House is making its money by taking a small percentage of the pot but if you're better by a significant margin than other people, you can actually win long term. Kevin: [00:02:12] If you're good, you can actually do pretty well for yourself. Anyway, to get back to it, that sort of put me off the path of maybe what you might say is just a traditional career. And then, I got into building and designing websites but that sort of became a bit stale. Kevin: [00:02:33] I wasn't really a designer at heart. It also was one of those things that you had to just keep selling websites month after month after month because once someone paid for a website, they were gone unless they needed some repairs or something like that. Kevin: [00:02:44] So that got me into marketing online, which sort of put me on this hybrid path of doing some consulting for other people like small businesses in my area, which is San Diego. Kevin: [00:02:55] At the same time, I realize maybe it makes sense to show these clients, "Hey, I actually know what I'm doing." I started a website myself, and it was right about the time I was getting into gardening. I just pick gardening as the test site to start. Kevin: [00:03:11] At the time, it was called something completely different. I hadn't really thought about the branding of it at all. That began the journey. That was maybe, I want to say 2010, but really, I hadn't touched the site at all in any significant way. It's certainly not as a business until the summer of 2016. So that's the short abridged version, I guess, of how I got into the whole thing. Jillian: [00:03:36] What made you want to turn it into a business? Kevin: [00:03:40] Yes, so I had seen just in doing consulting work and marketing work. I tried my hand at a startup as well. I'd seen that I could reach a certain point in business stuff. I really was having a hard time cracking past that plateau. I was making money. I could pay my bills. Kevin: [00:03:56] I wasn't really making what I would want to make to consider doing it full time. And so, I joined this publishing startup as a company called Book in a Box. The reason I joined, first of all, there are some cool people working there, but I also wanted to learn why can I not crack this plateau in business. Kevin: [00:04:17] I can't really get past a certain point, and there must be something I don't know. I joined that company, spent a year and a half there, building that out. It was a rocket ship so I contributed in some small way to it just blowing up. Kevin: [00:04:32] When I quit, I felt I had the tools to turn the gardening thing into a full time business. And that's what I did. And the reason why is just simply because I'm just not a good employee. Why become a gardening blogger Kevin: [00:04:43] I'm good at doing things I'm really interested in. I'm very, very bad at doing things I'm uninterested in to the point where at the most extreme, I just won't do them. I wanted to just do something that was fun, interesting to me, was valuable to people. Gardening is definitely helping people around the world. Kevin: [00:05:03] It could fund the lifestyle that I want to live, which is a relatively simple life. But I wanted it to throw off enough cash that I could invest it in gardening projects, different websites, or things like that just to kind of further the mission of the site. Jillian: [00:05:17] Now, what was the secret sauce that you were missing previously that you might have gained at this startup? Kevin: [00:05:23] Sure, yes. I think I come from a little bit different background than the average, maybe, listener to the show, where I noticed in the blogging world, a lot of these bloggers are bloggers first. I kind of never was that. Kevin: [00:05:37] And so I didn't have a good understanding of building communities and getting kind of people invested in what you're creating. I was always thinking of it from more of like a search and SEO perspective. That's a strength in itself because that's going to be free traffic forever and ever. Jillian: [00:05:55] I almost feel like we met at a conference relatively recently, and I was doing the SEO track. I felt like as bloggers, it's not how we think first. Kevin: [00:06:10] Right, exactly. So that is the biggest thing I noticed actually at that conference, and speaking with bloggers in general. Basically, my group of friends, who there are some bloggers, who are more I guess, in my way of the world. Kevin: [00:06:25] But yeah, a lot of bloggers are so good at social media. They're so good at creating and building cool things that people sort of organically talk about. The danger, at least, that I saw, and I will get back to your initial question, of what was the secret sauce, the danger that I saw was a lot of these people are relying so much on a platform so let's say Pinterest or Facebook. What is platform risk for a blogger? Kevin: [00:06:48] We've all seen before. I call it platform risk. If a significant amount of your traffic or revenue is coming from a certain platform, that's great because it's obviously working for you but it's extremely dangerous if that number is too high. Kevin: [00:07:04] So let's say you're getting 80 percent of your traffic total from Pinterest, one or two algorithm changes can absolutely decimate your entire business. Kevin: [00:07:12] And so that's why I focused on SEO at the start because as long as you're doing it with good practice, you're not sort of scamming, spamming or anything like that. That's essentially free traffic forever that only gets better and better over time. Jillian: [00:07:24] Yep. I totally agree. Like I plan in this podcast to talk more about SEO because I think it is, it's not sexy. Kevin: [00:07:34] No. Jillian: [00:07:35] It's not really fun, not like posting on Instagram, especially if that's kind of how you got into the world of blogging, whereas SEO is like straight up. We will talk about it but it's just like learning how the process works. The importance of SEO for bloggers Kevin: [00:07:55] Yeah, I agree. SEO has gone through a lot of different iterations and adjustments over time, as well as Google, and other search engines have gotten smarter. The best strategy fortunately these days is actually to just do what most bloggers are already doing which is create really good stuff. Kevin: [00:08:14] The only difference is a lot of bloggers are really good at thinking about things from the lens of what their community will think about it, whereas you kind of have to put on a different shade of glass and kind of think about a piece of content the way a search engine might look at it, because they're not human beings. And so it's really simple. It just takes a different sort of hat that you wear. Jillian: [00:08:39] You're so right. It's about how could people search and find my content, what questions are they asking instead of, "They already know me. They get my jokes." It's like what is the way into my content if I'm on Google. Kevin: [00:08:59] Totally. Yeah. There's things that are very simple. I was just talking with a blogger. She had a post about birthday party ideas for kids. She had showed me the original post. Amazing ideas, great photos, great content for a human being. It could have been better for a search engine and also better for a human being. How to optimize your blog posts for SEO Kevin: [00:09:22] So that's kind of the thing to think about. If you're going the SEO route and trying to improve your posts for SEO, it's really not going to degrade the experience for a human. It's actually going to improve it. Kevin: [00:09:33] She did things like added headings for the different themes for kids, birthday party ideas. So maybe under 1 or 5- 7, things like that, just formatting the piece better. And remember, if you're formatting it, that's better for the human eye, because we were attention-starved people these days. But also when a spider is crawling that, now it actually knows the structure and the importance of different sections of the piece. Jillian: [00:09:58] Absolutely. Kevin: [00:09:59] Yeah. I have a couple different things that I've done to extend upon that. Headings obviously are a core part of any article, in my opinion. One thing I've done is since my SEO strategy sort of relies on really comprehensive post so let's say, I'm doing a piece on how to grow spinach, I need to talk about everything you could run into when you're growing spinach which is a lot of different things. Kevin: [00:10:23] There's sort of a flow to that article, so there's how to plant it, what kind of light does it need, what kind of water does it need. What I'll do is install a table of contents at the top as well, so someone can just jump to whatever section they want by just clicking on that heading, kind of like how Wikipedia does it. Kevin: [00:10:40] Yes. That's pretty helpful on mobile. I'll always, like you just mentioned, I'll add an FAQ section at the bottom. One helpful tip is actually Google already sort of tells you what people are asking. Kevin: [00:10:52] Let's say you were to grow or you were to search how to grow spinach in Google, you scroll to the bottom. Usually, there are those question and answer boxes that they'll include there. Just answer those questions in the post. Very, very simple strategy that will pull in a little bit of extra traffic for you. Jillian: [00:11:09] Absolutely. Okay, so let's go back though. You were talking about the special sauce. Kevin: [00:11:15] Special sauce for me, that I learned at that company, Book in a Box publishing company, among many other things was that I was not building the right systems. I was thinking of my website as a one man operation. I wasn't thinking of it as a little mini business. Kevin: [00:11:34] It's a very common problem, I think, that most entrepreneurs would have is where you're working in the business and not on the business. I'm sure you've heard that phrase, right? Jillian: [00:11:42] No, I haven't. Explain. Kevin: [00:11:44] There's a book called The eMyth Revisited, I think. That particular book is mostly about people who run a small business like an actual brick and mortar, let's say a pie shop or something like that. But the idea is that you get into pie making because you like making pies. Kevin: [00:12:04] This would be the same for bloggers. You get into craft blogging because you really like making crafts. However, you quickly find that making the crafts is not really most of what you do. Most of what you do is everything else. Kevin: [00:12:19] The joy of making the craft actually starts to diminish a bit or making the pie. So you're working in your business, right? You're an employee for yourself which is not bad. And I think that's you. You absolutely have to start there. Kevin: [00:12:31] But what I wasn't realizing is like after let's say, I've written 300 articles on my website. Maybe I kind of know how those need to look from now on. I'm not saying you have to do this, but maybe I could use some help on that part of the business especially for me. Kevin: [00:12:50] I went into podcasts. I went into videos. I went into doing some live stuff in person. I can't be writing all the articles, doing 100 percent of the social media, all the podcasts, all of that. I would literally be working 100 hours a week. It's impossible. How to hire the right people who are intrinsically motivated Kevin: [00:13:06] And so as the site grew, I started to dedicate at least a little bit of that money towards an assistant, and not just getting a VA and telling them, "go do this," but really thinking about the processes and saying, "Okay, here's what I like to do on Instagram. Here's what's working. Write it out step by step." Kevin: [00:13:25] Train someone on how to help me out with that. Have checks and balances in there so they're not just posting willy-nilly, and you can make corrections here and there, but just really building up processes and then training people to help, that was the biggest thing for me. That's what really let me scale the site up to the point that it's at today. I just wouldn't be able to do it otherwise. Jillian: [00:13:46] So how many people do you have helping you? Kevin: [00:13:49] So right now, I have one writer. I found this wonderful woman who lives up in Northern California. She loves gardening, loves writing about it. She helps me out with a lot of the written content on the site these days. Kevin: [00:14:02] We kind of team write on that. She does a lot of the writing. I do a lot of the researching, editing, formatting, and a lot of like, "Here's what kind of needs to be covered in this piece. Here's what people have been wanting to learn about." Kevin: [00:14:12] We'll do the back and forth on that. And so I kind of consider her my editor in chief. And then, I have a researcher who will do a lot of like data processing type of task so if I need research done on particular keywords, if I need a bunch of images downloaded or something like that. Kevin: [00:14:33] I have a graphic designer that'll do some Pinterest images for me since I obviously realized a little too late to the game, that Pinterest was important. Kevin: [00:14:42] About last year this time, I actually realized, "Maybe I should think about Pinterest." Now, Pinterest is my biggest social driver of traffic. So yeah, I have someone who helps me out with that. Kevin: [00:14:53] I do all my video filming myself but I realized very, very quickly that the editing part of the videos was going to kill me. It's a thing that I could get obsessed with because that's just my personality. Kevin: [00:15:06] I realized that if I was to allow myself to get obsessed with that, it would detract from the mission of the site which is just teaching as many people as I can on how to grow. And so, I have a video editor who will put together those clips for me and make them look really sleek for my YouTube, for Facebook or whatever. Jillian: [00:15:24] That's terrific. Now, did you find it difficult in the beginning when you brought these people on to let go? Kevin: [00:15:31] Yeah, for sure. And so for me, the written part of the site was very hard to let go of. I've talked to other bloggers too, who just can't even imagine doing that because that is their voice. It's them. This is me. If I were to outsource that or have help on that, I feel like it would be disingenuous. Kevin: [00:15:52] And so I did definitely feel that. And the way I think about it now is that I'm kind of building a small little company. It's not going to be something crazy, something huge, but the voice is becoming a bit of a hybrid between both of us, my writer and myself, and the podcasts, obviously, that's my voice. Kevin: [00:16:13] I'm coming off the top of my head with all those topics. The videos I'm on it, I'm talking and so I've given up a little bit of control over some of the written tone and content, provided that I still make sure that's the absolute best quality information I can get out there. Yeah, it took a little bit of time but once I reframed it, it was a lot easier for me. Jillian: [00:16:35] I have found the same thing when I have brought on somebody to help me. Also, they might not do it my way. They might not sound like me and so I feel like the way that I've been able to do it is to hiring the right person who I think of as a thought partner. Kevin: [00:16:56] 100 percent. Yeah, exactly. And so the thing that was really the golden goose for me as far as the writing goes is she is a mom. She is a homemaker, I believe, and she loves gardening. And so in many areas, she's actually got more experience than me, let's say for a particular plant. Kevin: [00:17:19] She's grown more tomatoes than I have, for example, or different varieties. She's grown them more years. She's older than me. She's actually gardened, just mathematically, longer than I have. Even if I garden from age zero, I don't think I could have had more experience. Kevin: [00:17:34] There are certain areas where she is adding. That's just one of the principal rules of hiring. You want to hire people who are better than you at the job you're hiring for. Why would I bemoan the fact that she does it a little differently? Maybe her different is actually better. Jillian: [00:17:50] Yes. I think that there is that mind shift of, I don't have to be in charge of everything, meaning I can work with this person together, come up with a solution. Kevin: [00:18:08] Totally. I'll find a lot of the times that my direction will be overruled. So I'll say, "I think we need a piece on this. I'd like to cover this sort of stuff." Kevin: [00:18:18] She'll say, "You know what? I'm actually going to add in an extra section on this particular pest because this particular pest specifically attacks this plant a lot. It seems like a lot of people are asking about it. I'm going to cover that." Kevin: [00:18:32] It's something I maybe wouldn't have thought of because maybe I have less experience than her growing that particular plant or that pest isn't in my region. There's a lot of tiny little things that hiring someone better than you is going to help you out at. You really can't know until you do it Jillian: [00:18:46] I totally agree. And you have to be willing to. Again, it's that entrepreneurial spirit of you experiment, and you fail often and fail fast. If in fact, I've hired somebody and it hasn't worked out, I always try to make it that it's not personal but this isn't working out. I let that person go very quickly so that I can go find the right person. Kevin: [00:19:10] Totally, yeah. I agree with you. So what that's sort of a key thing for me is I'd like to do test projects. Jillian: [00:19:17] Yes, I do too. Kevin: [00:19:18] So with this particular writer, I did a test project but I kind of knew right away it was going to be a fit, and that was rare for hiring like an assistant type of role. I find that the test projects are really valuable. Kevin: [00:19:32] Sometimes, you even want to have multiple test projects just to make sure that it's going to be a fit. But for the particular skill of like let's say a writer, an editor or something like that, I think it's something I don't see a lot of people talk about is obviously, you want to hire for someone who knows what they're doing, but you kind of want to think about like extrinsic and intrinsic motivators. Kevin: [00:19:52] An extrinsic motivator is they get money. Money, I got paid. However, if you only hire someone who is extrinsically motivated, then there's sort of a mercenary. They don't really care about anything except for that money. Kevin: [00:20:07] They'll do a good job, sure, but only if they're getting that money, whereas if you hire someone who has a bit of a hybrid of the two, for example, my writer really loves gardening, loves writing, and loves to synthesize and share. That's within her DNA, so she's willing to go the extra mile because she actually gets intrinsic joy out of it. Kevin: [00:20:32] That's something I really haven't seen a lot of people talk about when it comes to hiring. They get a lot of bang for your buck that way. Jillian: [00:20:38] I think that's so true because I do think if you're hiring somebody who is doing it for the money, over time, it becomes less interesting for them. And if you can find somebody who gets excited about what you get excited about, what your business is about, you both can nerd out about it. Kevin: [00:20:59] Exactly, yeah. In our Slack channel, we do this. We do that. We'll talk about the tomatoes we want to grow. We'll talk about the seeds that we just bought, all sorts of stuff like this, that. It really wouldn't happen if I just hired a mercenary-type person. Jillian: [00:21:13] Exactly, so our assistant - we have a business called Catch my Party. We're the largest party ideas site on the web. I have an assistant, and she lives in Portugal. I love her. She's a designer so she has this really beautiful eye. Jillian: [00:21:27] So we will totally nerd out. We have a Slack channel. She'll say "You're not going to believe this party that somebody uploaded to our site," and then, we'll go through the photos and we'll be like, "Oh my God. That's so beautiful." Jillian: [00:21:43] She is special because, this is funny like, we'll do something design related on our blog. She won't like the font, and she'll be like, "It's hurting my design eyes," and I'm like "I totally get it." But she sees it. She sees the world in beautiful ways. So therefore, she brings that aesthetic. She can't help it because she loves beautiful things. Kevin: [00:22:08] That's a good way to put it is she can't help it. I have a story similar. I was actually just on Slack, right before this interview, talking about - I have an article on the Staghorn Fern which is a really popular both indoor and outdoor houseplant. But a lot of like millennials are growing it these days. Kevin: [00:22:23] It's just a really cool looking plant. Someone had commented about this very obscure pest that's like only in Australia. There wasn't a lot of research on it, and so I said, "Hey, do you know anything about this particular pest because I don't know a whole lot." Kevin: [00:00:00] She didn't say anything for like 10 minutes and then, she came back with this entire tome of knowledge about it, and then updated the piece, responded to the guy. If I told her about it, it was going to bug her until it was done. It's a similar type of thing that you're talking about. Jillian: [00:23:01] Totally. Now, what is it like because you have this mission of wanting people to grow their own food, right? And it seems like it's coming from a deep place inside you. Kevin: [00:23:14] Yeah, I think to me, the reason I got into the gardening thing is because I had been in marketing for so long, and I'd marketed all sorts of products, services, etcetera. Kevin: [00:23:26] I would say very few of them actually felt like they did any real difference in the world. Not to say they didn't. It's just more of a surface level of things. If you're helping a lawyer out, great. He has some more clients, and those clients got some help. Kevin: [00:23:43] Let's say I had some earlier website projects that didn't have the most grandiose goals. It was just kind of to make money. But once you kind of get past that point, let's say you're making okay money, it really does become about, "Why do I actually want to do with my days? And what is the effect of what I do on the world itself?" I kind of went down. You're familiar with like Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs, right? Jillian: [00:24:09] Yes. Kevin: [00:24:09] Right. I kind of went down the chain, back down. Jillian: [00:24:14] Not up the chain? Kevin: [00:24:15] Yeah, because once you kind of get up the chain, maybe you want to help other people get up the chain. Not to say I'm at the top of the hierarchy or whatever but going back down. Kevin: [00:24:25] So for me, gardening, the mission kind of came from the audience. I'd get emails. Early on it was a lot of hydroponics, contents, growing without soil. A lot of areas, soil's terrible. You can't grow in the soil. Kevin: [00:24:38] A lot of people would be writing into me from Africa, the Ivory Coast or Chile, all these different places that really, I had no idea I was affecting or I was touching, saying like, "Hey, I'm using your guide right now to grow basil, mint, and cucumbers for my mom who is like 78, and she needs something to do. She's getting a lot of joy out of it. She's going to eat some of this food." Kevin: [00:25:02] And so then I really started thinking. You really can't know the people that you're affecting because the people who email you are only a small segment of the people that are reading your stuff. I kind of felt as your site gets bigger, your responsibility kind of grows to be putting out the best stuff you can, stuff that's actually helpful. It's not sort of destroying the world in a way. And that's where that kind of came from for me. How to monetize a blog with a mission Jillian: [00:25:28] Interesting. Yeah, because I can feel your mission. My next question is how do you monetize that mission? Because you also have to eat, live. Kevin: [00:25:39] Totally. I'm, again, kind of different from probably many of the bloggers who are either listening, or you've had on the show in the past. My background was SEO like I said. Ads, for me, doing the whole AdThrive or display ad thing, that was always a throw away source of revenue for me. Kevin: [00:26:02] Until recently it was a throwaway source of revenue for me. It was easily the lowest amount of revenue I made based on. It just wasn't a lot. Early on, I was running Google Ad Sense. Ads just degrade the quality of a site in my opinion. It's hard to argue around that. Kevin: [00:26:20] But for many of us, it's a necessary evil. And for me, it actually wasn't a necessary evil for a while because it wasn't making that much. And so I didn't have the money. Kevin: [00:26:30] Only until recently have I started adding ads. Ads, of course, are there. I would like to decrease the amount of ads that I have on the site as the site scales up, and I get revenue from other places. Amazon affiliates is pretty good for me. That's one area I've seen a lot of bloggers kind of struggle with, is making some affiliate revenue via Amazon or other channels. Jillian: [00:26:52] Why do you think it's good for you? Kevin: [00:26:54] Well, it's good for me because I have approached it from an SEO perspective on the Amazon stuff. And so for me, there's a wealth of tools and products in the gardening space that I can talk about because I've used them. Kevin: [00:27:08] If I'm talking about, let's say pruning shears, I actually have a real opinion on what the best ones are and why or what the best ones are for a particular scenario, like if you're elderly or if you need a longer reach. Kevin: [00:27:23] I'll do review sort of posts on those types of products that are not really social media type of posts. In fact, I often don't even post them to my social channels, but I know that they'll do well in search. Kevin: [00:27:37] The people who are looking to have that problem solved for them, there you go. It's the most comprehensive guide you're going to find on that particular product. And so Amazon will do pretty well. I've done a few different brand deals. I'm kind of recently exploring that. Kevin: [00:27:53] Just after meeting a bunch of bloggers at this conference, I realized kind of how little I knew about the brand deal world, which is so funny because a lot of those bloggers are making all their money on ads and brand deals. They're shocked when they hear about what I was charging. I think I did one with WD-40 and charged $150 bucks or something like that. Jillian: [00:28:13] Yes, you are undercharging. Kevin: [00:28:15] I mean, to be fair, that is the first one I ever did. I was just kind of stoked that they even wanted to work with me. That was a different story. I've since increase my prices. Not waiting for the brands to come to me, for example, going to them, pitching them ideas and saying, "Here's what I've got." Kevin: [00:28:32] Podcast sponsorship is one that I've only recently started to explore so I had a sponsor for the first quarter of this year on the podcast. That was a nice chunk of change. It's kind of just one of four or five different sources of revenue that all add up to enough that I can fund the company and fund myself. Jillian: [00:28:50] And then what about YouTube? Kevin: [00:28:52] Oh, that's true. Yes. YouTube, I monetize my videos. Unless you get to significant scale, it's very difficult to support yourself on YouTube alone. I would say, after you get to around 100,000 subscribers, provided your videos get decent viewership, you can make enough to like bare bones live off of. Kevin: [00:29:14] I would never, ever rely on YouTube as a core strategy unless you have a product or service that you're also selling via that channel. So if you have like books, courses, physical products etc., then that can be a definite source of revenue. Actually, it's something I'm exploring. It's doing the courses or physical products next. Jillian: [00:29:35] Got it. Now, I would think that brands would want you to be doing video. How to work with brands as a blogger Kevin: [00:29:39] Yes, so that's sort of what I was going with the the brand deal stuff I learned. I actually learned a lot from the food bloggers about brand deals because a lot of their stuff is just so highly visual. Kevin: [00:29:50] Most of them are really big on YouTube. And so I learned doing like one a month videos. They'll do these videos anyway. The beauty of food bloggers is they have a recipe. Recipes contain many ingredients of which there are many brands that sell those ingredients so you can have a soy sauce sponsor. Kevin: [00:30:09] If you're making Asian cuisine, chances are you using soy sauce in every video so you can say, "Hey, we do a video a week. We use soy sauce in almost all the videos. If we do a minimum of one or two videos per week for you for a year, pay us two grand a month or whatever it is. Kevin: [00:30:27] You can think about it from that perspective, and for me, I kind of think about it like this might not really relate to many people in the audience, Kevin: [00:30:35] But for me, I grew up skateboarding and sponsored pro skateboarders were very similar where they have their sponsor, their grip tape sponsor, their wheel sponsor. But for us, it's the same thing. Just think about your niche, think about sort of the categories of your products in your niche, and then, go talk to the people who sell those who have a reasonable shot of landing as a sponsor. Jillian: [00:30:55] Absolutely. And I always say reach out to those brands on Twitter. Kevin: [00:31:00] Okay, Twitter has been working the best for for you? Jillian: [00:31:02] Yeah because they're listening. The brands are listening. I have found Twitter to be the best way to get to the kind of the right people at the company. Kevin: [00:31:16] So for you, for your party business at least, are brand deals are pretty significant part of your revenue? Jillian: [00:31:22] They are. And again, they have been for the last couple of years. I would say we were making most. The largest contributor would be brands. And because we're parties, we can be anything from like work with Bounty or Party City or those kinds of companies. Jillian: [00:31:45] The one thing though about working with brands that I have found, unless you have that deal where you get the soil company to sponsor your content working with brands, creating content for a brand, it's hard to scale that. Kevin: [00:32:02] Yeah, for sure. Jillian: [00:32:03] So it's like you building websites. So every single time you're starting at zero, "What am I going to create, and how am I going to create it?" And so I tend to overthink a lot of times, like the projects that I'm working on with brands. It might take me longer than I think it's going to. Kevin: [00:32:22] True. So for you, does a brand deal kind of look like you incorporating their product into a party planning idea? Jillian: [00:32:29] It's typically like a recipe like Nabisco or something. We've been doing a lot of work with SweeTarts for holidays. Hey, create a craft or an Easter basket. Here's our candy, and use our candy in the post. So then a huge big box of candy shows up at my house, and my daughter is delighted that I have to kind of hide it from her, that kind of thing. Those are much more of how we work with brands. Kevin: [00:33:02] Gotcha. And that's something that, I guess, at your scale you probably get a bunch of inquiries. But are you also reaching out to those brands and saying, "Here's who I am. Here's what we can do"? Jillian: [00:33:12] I've done both. Typically though, right now, we work with some companies like TapInfluence. It's a company that connects bloggers to brands. And right now because I'm split between Catch My Party, MiloTree, and this podcast, I haven't been reaching out to brands as much. I'm really jazzed about doing these interviews. And so I notice that this is where my attention is , where I want to be spending all the time. Kevin: [00:33:44] It's where you're naturally focused on. Jillian: [00:33:46] Yeah. So I feel like I don't need to be right now working, reaching out to brands. But there are times where I'm like, "Hey, guys. We'd love to do some sponsored content with you. Do you have any opportunities?" Kevin: [00:34:00] Totally. Yeah, I think it'll probably follow a similar trajectory for me where I don't really want to, I guess, buy myself a job by taking on so much brand work that that's kind of all I'm doing. Kevin: [00:34:13] But at the same time, I was talking about with that whole platform risk idea, or maybe you might call it revenue risk, if all your money is coming from one thing, and that thing gets hurt, you're in a bad spot. So definitely learning how to do the brand stuff is on the docket for this year. Jillian: [00:34:28] Yeah, and I would say like the soy sauce model could really work for you. These longer term sponsors where you don't have to necessarily create different stuff for them, but it naturally fits in with what you're creating. Kevin: [00:34:44] Yeah, my dream scenario for that would be thinking about a garden at least you've got soil and fertilizer. You've got maybe garden beds or something like that. You've got tools, lots of different categories of products and since gardening is such a seasonal over time industry, you're growing tomatoes, it's four months. Kevin: [00:35:03] So taking those types of deals where its like, "Hey, I'm doing this right now this year so this is what's coming out this year." For example, for me this year, I'm working on a book. The book is going to be focused on how to grow as much food as you can in a small space no matter what type of small space you live in. Kevin: [00:35:22] And so I'm taking an extreme case. I live on a relatively large urban home. I'm going to go extreme. I'm going to grow as much as I can with as many different methods as I can. That's the goal for this year. Kevin: [00:35:31] Obviously, that's going to be coming out on the YouTube channel, on the podcast and the website. And so if a brand wants to work with me, they can work with me over the course of that year. I'm not going to say, "I'm going to guarantee you get 25 posts" this and that. I'll just say like, "Look, anytime your product is in the video, in the post or in the picture, you're getting a mention." And so it's going to be a little less quantifiable but totally totally workable because I'm doing that work anyways. Jillian: [00:35:58] So our first sponsor for Catch my Party, we give away a lot of free party printables. I did this weird thing where I said to my husband, "I'm going to reach out to HP because HP makes printers." Jillian: [00:36:12] What I did was I went to the HP website. I reached out to customer service. My husband is like, "This is never going to work." I go, "Just wait." Because I saw that HP at the time was giving away some printables, I said, "Hey, is there any way you could connect me to the people at HP who are working on the printables?" Jillian: [00:36:41] And I went through a chain of, I don't know, 15 people. "I'm not the right person but maybe you should try this person." I just kept at it. Jillian: [00:36:51] Ultimately, I got to the right people, and it turned out it was an agency that was working with HP that was creating this content. I said, "Hey, what if you guys sponsor our printables?" So we were still creating them, and they were just paying us a monthly fee to get HP featured on these blog posts. Kevin: [00:37:13] And on the printables themselves, I would imagine, right? Jillian: [00:37:18] I think what we did was we added a pdf. Because the goal is to always provide value, I put together like a sheet, a PDF, that would go in front of our PDFs that would say, "If you're going to print out these printables, here's what you need: scissors, tape, glue dots and here's some HP paper that we recommend." And the truth is I did recommend the HP paper. That was authentic. Kevin: [00:37:47] Yeah, exactly. And that's really the crux of influencer marketing. It's the fact that you can influence. And the only reason that you can influence is if you believe in the things that you're doing over time because your audience trust you. Kevin: [00:38:00] So for me, when I worked with WD-40 and drastically undercharged, which we will never speak about again, I did a video. They sent over some of their pumice soap, and they sent over some oil. It's like lubricating oil. Kevin: [00:38:14] I said "How do I actually use this in a way that's relevant to gardeners?" I had some pruning shears that were relatively expensive pruning shears that I kind of neglected. They had a bunch of rust on them so I showed people how to rust the tool. I used the lubricating oil to coat it afterwards so it won't get rusty in the future. And it worked wonderfully. In the post and in the video, there is their mention, the 3-in-1 oil from WD-40. Jillian: [00:38:40] Totally. And I think that is a win-win. Everybody's winning. Kevin: [00:38:45] Exactly, yeah. I actually would go one step further and say it's a win-win-win where the audience is the third winner. Jillian: [00:38:51] Yes. And I would say that's the most important win. Kevin: [00:38:54] That's the most important win because without that, then no one else is coming to the table. The brands that want to work with you if your audience doesn't care about you and you aren't supporting yourself if your audience doesn't care about you. Jillian: [00:39:05] Totally. So what is your favorite thing to grow and eat? Kevin: [00:39:13] Oh, man. That's a good one. I'm kind of weird in that. Like if someone asked me my favorite movie or my favorite book, I really don't have any. Kevin: [00:39:22] I just have what I like at the time, so what I like at the time right now is I'm growing this pea. It's a purple dwarf pea variety called a dwarf. I think Desiree Dwarf Dessiree dwarf [00:39:37] Blauwschokkers [0.6] Pea. Very interesting name. Kevin: [00:39:40] I probably didn't say it correctly but it's delicious. This is really dark purple pea. You can just pick it right off of the vine and just pop it in your mouth so every time I go out. . Kevin: [00:39:49] Yeah, it's really sweet actually. It's very tasty. Pop those in my mouth as I'm out in the garden just kind of tending to it. Not many of them actually make it to the plate. They just want to be eaten out there. Kevin: [00:40:01] Yeah, I really like growing weird stuff so a pea. It's a purple or have a bean variety that kind of looks like white and red speckles. Sometimes, I'll sacrifice the taste of something just because I like the look of it, which is who knows if that's the right idea. I definitely like some weird looking stuff. Jillian: [00:40:20] Well, they say the more colorful, the better. Kevin: [00:40:24] Yeah. Usually in the more colorful and the more dark, the better because of the compounds that are used in a plant to create the dark color typically are also good for health. Jillian: [00:40:34] Wow. Yeah. We live in California, and we just try to eat lots of different colors. Kevin: [00:40:41] Yeah. I think there's probably some diet book out there actually about that, the Color Diet. Eat the rainbow or something like that. It's a good heuristic for sure. Jillian: [00:40:51] Yes, Kevin. I have to say I have so enjoyed, first of all, meeting you and talking to you. I recommend people check you out because when I first met you, you feel like a gardener to me. You feel like a salt of the earth. Kevin: [00:41:11] Yeah. I'm glad to hear that. Jillian: [00:41:13] I could tell you like to put your hands in the dirt. Kevin: [00:41:16] Definitely. Yeah. I mean sometimes, if you're running an online business, sometimes, it feels like you don't get a lot of work done at the end of the day because you're just clicking buttons. So if I'm out in the garden, it definitely feels like I did something even if I did even more work online. Jillian: [00:41:31] I get that. So how can people reach out to you, find you? Kevin: [00:41:34] Yeah, sure. I don't use Twitter a whole lot to be honest. So you can find me on Facebook if you just Google my name or search my name. Jillian: [00:41:44] How do you spell your last name? So it's Kevin. Kevin: [00:41:45] Yeah, the best way to spell it is just think of it like this: You have the letter E, then the word "spirit" and then, the letter U. So E-spirit-U. Jillian: [00:41:54] I love it. Kevin: [00:41:55] Yeah, I say that because I have like little participation trophies from like soccer with every possible vowel at the end of my last name, so I've had to figure out the best way to describe how to spell it. Jillian: [00:42:06] It kind of fits with your vibe. Kevin: [00:42:08] E-spirit-U? Jillian: [00:42:08] Yeah. Kevin: [00:42:10] I'll take it. I'll take it. Jillian: [00:42:12] Yes, because "spirit" is in the middle of your name. Kevin: [00:42:14] There we go. Yeah, Facebook is probably the best way. If anyone who's listening wants to talk, I'm happy to give you guys some pointers on that. And then if anyone is actually into gardening themselves, you can always go to epicgardening.com. Kevin: [00:42:29] And that book that's coming out, if you just go epic gardening.com/book, you can kind of sign up for the early release list where I'm kind of sending out like little DIY plans, chapters and updates and stuff like that . Jillian: [00:42:41] I just want to say if you are a gardener, definitely check out your podcast. Kevin: [00:42:45] Oh, right. Yeah. Jillian: [00:42:46] Because you give lots of pieces of good, good information. Kevin: [00:42:53] Yeah, daily podcasts. Any podcast player you guys use, just search Epic Gardening, and it'll be there. It's like three to five minutes a day. One topic. Keep it really simple. Jillian: [00:43:03] I love that. Well, Kevin, thank you so much for being on the show Kevin: [00:43:07] Thank you. Yeah, I had a blast. It was great talking to you, Jillian. Why bloggers and entrepreneurs should check out MiloTree to grow their social media followers Jillian: [00:24:06] If you're trying to grow your social media followers on Instagram, Facebook, YouTube and Pinterest, plus trying to grow your email list, definitely check out MiloTree. Jillian: [00:24:18] It is the smart pop-up you add to your blog or your site, and it asks your visitors to follow you on social media or subscribe to your list. Jillian: [00:24:27] Just a couple of things: it's super easy to add to your site. We offer a WordPress plugin or a simple line of code. It's Google-friendly on mobile so you don't have to worry about showing pop-ups on mobile. It's lightning fast. It won't slow your site down, and you can grow multiple platforms at once. So check it out, milotree.com. Jillian: [00:24:53] We also offer your first 30 days free. Sign up for MiloTree now and get your first 30 DAYS FREE!
Food Recovery Network Executive Director Regina Northouse on the basics of food recovery, running a student-driven organization across hundreds of college campuses, and simple steps each of us can take to reduce food waste. SPONSOR: AdThrive is an ad optimization and management company for online publishers - so if you create content and put it on the internet, AdThrive should be on your radar. Learn more at adthrive.com. SHOWNOTES: atthetablepodcast.com/16
Fishpeople Seafood co-founder Duncan Berry talks to us about the importance of giving fishermen the chance to tell their stories, Fishpeople's unique approach to traceability in the supply chain, and his commitment to relentless transparency. SPONSOR: AdThrive is an ad optimization and management company for online publishers - so if you create content and put it on the internet, AdThrive should be on your radar. Learn more at adthrive.com. SHOWNOTES: atthetablepodcast.com/14
Welcome to episode 004 of the Blogger Genius Podcast. My guest is Paula Rollo from the blog, Beauty Through Imperfection. In this episode, we discuss how blogging makes you braver, and what it's like first-hand to show vulnerability, and share your truth with the world as a blogger. Resources: Beauty Through Imperfection Dinner with the Rollos Traveling Family Blog Quick Blogging Tips Facebook group Izea AdThrive Mediavine Clever Sway SEMrush MiloTree Transcript - How Blogging Makes You Braver: Jillian: [00:00:11] Today on the show. I have my friend, Paula Rollo, and she is the the blogger behind Beauty Through Imperfection. She's not only a blogger, she's also a writer, and a social media expert. So welcome to the show, Paula. Paula: [00:00:29] Thank you for having me. Jillian: [00:00:31] You are an old timer if I can call you that. Paula: [00:00:35] Sure. That's true. OK. Jillian: [00:00:37] So can you tell us briefly how you started, how you got interested in blogging, and now I was just reading something about you and it says you have four blogs. Paula: [00:00:51] So I started when I was 15. A friend of mine had a blog and it seemed like a cool thing to do. So I started when I was moving away and so I used it as a little awkward teenager would, and keep in touch with my friends. And thankfully, that blog is no longer alive on the Internet. I've never been more grateful for a Web site going down. But I've never really stopped for an extended period of time since I was 15. I love writing and just connecting with people that way. And so I've been doing it a long time now, and loving it almost all the time. Jillian: [00:01:35] And what was the inspiration behind Beauty Through Imperfection? Inspiration behind Beauty Through Imperfection Paula: [00:01:40] So I had take a break while I was pregnant with my first baby. Beauty Through Imperfection started when he was about two or three months old. I just saw a lot of perfection on social media. I think back then there wasn't this common thing where if you said Beauty Through Imperfection, people know what you're about, and that you're wanting to embrace pain, those flaws and motherhood and not shame other people. Paula: [00:02:11] But it was a tiny internet where I wasn't seeing a lot and so I just wanted to speak into that space because I was just really worried I was screwing it all up, and realize everybody else was, too. So we kind of created this little space together. It's ok to not be perfect today. And there's beauty in that today, too. Jillian: [00:02:29] Wow. I love that message because yes, as a new mother, oh my God, you know that is like a crazy crazy time. Jillian: [00:02:38] My daughter didn't sleep as a baby and I would read all the sleep books and I would feel so inadequate, that I was somehow doing it wrong and then everybody had their advice. Have you tried music? You know I just pat my baby on the back, and she just goes to sleep. I would just feel so inadequate. So I wish I had found your blog back then. Paula: [00:03:03] I wish I had my blog back. That's why I started it. That's great. Blog evolution Jillian: [00:03:07] And so explain then how your blog has evolved, as in how long has Beauty through Imperfection been around? Paula: [00:03:15] Seven years. Jillian: [00:03:17] And how have you seen it evolve as you've evolved? Paula: [00:03:23] So it has been interesting because I think I started out blogging from this space of me too, I also feel really insecure. I also am really afraid that I'm screwing up. And not a lot of help in that but just maybe a comforting voice, like you're not the only one feeling this way. Paula: [00:03:42] And I think that there's a lot of value in that. But as I've kind of grown in my motherhood and not been quite as worried about every decision all the time, I've been able to kind of speak from a different space. You know, your baby will sleep. Like somebody was actually messaging me yesterday, like will I ever sleep again? Is that a thing because it's been three days. Now I'm able to kind of speak from a space where I did sleep last night. And I know that it's going to get better, but I also know it feels really hopeless right now, and that's ok. Like it's okay to feel that helplessness. And so I kind of try to keep both both voices in there now, where I am in this with you, but also. I do have some advice to share, or some words of encouragement of, this worked for me and it might not work for you, but it works for me, you could try it, in that I've traveled down this path. Jillian: [00:04:32] I'm a little bit of I'm a little further down the path so I can look back and have a little more perspective. Paula: [00:04:37] Exactly, because I still... my youngest is 5... but I still talk about baby and toddler years a lot just because I remember how hard those times were and how much you need a friend. And it's really hard to reach out to friends in that time. So I always want to keep that as part of what I'm doing. Jillian: [00:04:54] I love that. When I think of you the word that comes to mind is brave. Paula: [00:05:01] You are so sweet. Sharing about personal struggles Jillian: [00:05:03] Because again as we live in this curated world of perfection on the internet you have been willing to share about your own personal struggles and really put yourself out there. And I have to say I feel like I read one of your pieces before I met you. And I felt this real connection to you. And then like when I saw you in real life, I'm like wow, I feel so close. Can you share about that part of your blogging and what that means? Paula: [00:05:39] Sure. So I always use blogging as kind of like a way to heal. Paula: [00:05:45] I'm a child abuse survivor. There is a lot of abuse in my history and just a lot of really just crazy messed up stuff. And so I've written a lot as a way to process my feelings and to kind of put to paper words that I didn't feel comfortable speaking out. And so that just kind of naturally progressed into my blog. And I realized that I'm being quiet, and no one knows I struggle with depression. No one knows that I've had anxiety for years. So I wonder how many other people have depression and anxiety, and they're just not talking about it, and they're just not talking about how they're healing from abuse, or different things that have happened in their lives. Paula: [00:06:32] And so I just started putting it on the Internet and it took a long time. That makes it sound very simple like just I suddenly knew how to put this into words and put it online. But it's not the case. I think my first post that I wrote about child abuse and how that shaped my motherhood was three years in the making. Like I literally drafted it out and edited it for three years, which is not something I normally do. I don't even edit most of my blog posts at all I just kind of throw them on the internet and watch what happens. Paula: [00:07:03] But that one took a long time and I really had to get to a place where I was okay with whatever backlash came from it. Paula: [00:07:10] And there was some. And that's hard, but I also like writing about these things because it gives people, even people who haven't experienced abuse or who don't experience depression and anxiety, the chance to hear what their friends are going through. And hopefully even if they respond poorly to me, I want them to have that space to have that negative reaction so hopefully they respond better to their friends in the future. Jillian: [00:07:41] Now how has the reaction been? And this is where I use the word brave, because I don't think I could handle backlash about something so personal. Reactions to personal posts Jillian: [00:07:57] Have people been kind and civil? And how have you responded to that? Paula: [00:08:08] There's been both. So and that's why when people ask me about writing really personal things I always caution them to make sure they're ready. One of my most personal pieces I've had people comment, and be like, I don't know about your alleged abuse. This doesn't seem very bad to me. We need more proof. And really? Like it's not even about you know. I didn't go into details because it was not necessary in the post. Like are you just wanting to get entertainment from my abuse? So OK. I just don't understand why I need to prove myself in a blog post. Paula: [00:08:47] It's not like I'm suing someone. We don't need proof. So I'm not sure what area of pain that person was coming from but I've definitely gotten some backlash, mainly from strangers and mainly unwarranted. I think it's really important to me that I don't hurt anyone with my stories, so I even sent one of my post about my biological dad, who was a great dad, but he messed up a bunch, and he's no longer living, so I couldn't send it to him to get his approval to post. But I felt like I had something important that other people could learn from him and so I sent it to his sister. And I said I'm wanting to publish this. Will you read it and tell me what you think and tell me if you think that this is slandering his good name or anything like that because I don't want to harm anyone. Paula: [00:09:36] And if I'm harming some people to help other people I'm just not okay with that. So I'm very cautious in the way that I write and I think that has protected me from some backlash just because I'm careful with the way that I do it. But still I get all sorts of weird comments about my life. Jillian: [00:09:56] What about the positive comments? Paula: [00:10:03] Those are amazing. People will stop me. I remember the first post I wrote about abuse, and the point of it was to talk to your kids about it, and to really empower your kids to know what kind of touching is and it's not OK, how people are allowed to talk to them. And those types of things, because that stuff wasn't taught to me as a kid. And I think it's really important to empower your kids in that way, not just shield them but to give them the ability to shield themselves, and reach out for help when needed. Paula: [00:10:31] So I wrote this post, and my blog is predominantly for women. And I don't share my personal posts just because I write a lot and that would be obnoxious, but I walk into church that Sunday, and this random guy approaches me, like I know him but I don't think he reads my blog regularly, and he comes up to me and he's like, we had a conversation with our kids last night about abuse because of your blog. This has changed us. And I really really appreciate it. And so things like that, and I've gotten e-mails like that, and I see in my Amazon listings, all these books that are purchased pretty much every single day about empowering your kids and teaching them about yes and no touching, and things like that. Paula: [00:11:13] And that's really just my favorite thing because I know that kids are being impacted and hopefully changed through it, and protected from whatever might come their way. So it's empowering I think both to parents and kids, to add in those extra layers of safety and that's just priceless. Jillian: [00:11:32] Wow. But again I feel like you are this force for good out in the world. I'm happy there are people like you writing about this stuff. Paula: [00:11:43] I hope it's doing good. I think there are a lot of silent people both happy and sad about what I write. It's always encouraging to that even the people who are maybe not able to put it into words are talking to their kids. Paula: [00:11:58] Like all of you on the Amazon Pages I don't know what they're thinking, or what they've said, but I know that they're having conversations with their kids, and that's what is really important to me. On being a social media expert Jillian: [00:12:07] That's amazing. So this is an interesting thing about you. On one hand you have this very personal blog and you're sharing tips and trying to help people. Then you also though are this social media expert. Can you explain how that came about and where you were? Because I think when I first learned about you I thought of you as a teacher in social media and blogging. And then I learned about your blog. So explain where that came about and what that means. Paula: [00:12:44] I think it means a lot of different things to different people. For me I when I started blogging, and even when I started trying to blog professionally, which was only like four or five years ago, and there weren't social media teachers back then, there weren't blogging coaches, that was not a thing. I had heard rumors that there were some bloggers making money and that's why I decided to try it. It wasn't like everyone was posting income reports and things like that. And so I've spent a lot of time failing and figuring things out on my own, which I'm thankful for. But also we really needed money in that season of life. Paula: [00:13:28] So it would have been nice to be able to read this book or just get some advice from someone on how to do something, and maybe kind of take a shortcut to not having to fail as many times. That I could have made money for our family a little bit faster. But I'm thankful for that time. But that's what kind of makes me want to be a social media teacher, a blogging teacher, or whatever term to put on it. I just want to see people succeed and I want to see people reach their goals because I think there is a lot of talk in this space about making you know 97 figures a month or whatever. Paula: [00:14:07] There's a lot of that and I support that. And I am happy with people doing that. But that's just not what I'm about. I would rather help somebody who has a meaningful message that they want to share, or somebody who just wants to be able to keep the lights on for their kids. Advice for beginning bloggers Jillian: [00:14:30] So if you were to talk to somebody who is just starting a blog, just starting out, and you were to say here are your top three ways to make money or to be thinking about monetizing your blog. Jillian: [00:14:49] What would you recommend? Paula: [00:14:54] Number one that they know who they're talking to and how they can help those people. Jillian: [00:14:59] And what do you mean by that? Advice: Know who your audience is Paula: [00:15:01] Who are you blogging to? And why? Because just putting an article out into the whole world of the Internet, anybody can do that. But how are you making a meaningful connection with someone,because that's how we do things that really matter. And also that's how people make sales as well, because people feel connected to you. People feel like they can trust you. People know that you understand the struggle that they're having. And so when you say this can help you with that struggle or that product will, they're willing to buy into that. So it's really important. On a personal level, just to know that you're helping someone, but also it is a huge part of that money making journey. It builds trust with your readers so figuring out who you want to talk to and how you can help them. Absolutely number one. Jillian: [00:15:49] A lot of people call that your avatar. I like the idea of an avatar because it typically is one person. It's that one perfect visitor to your site. That person who gets you and wants this specific content and to really identify... is it a mom? Where does she live? Jillian: [00:16:14] What does she do? What are her struggles? What are her issues? And usually that avatar tends to be someone similar to us. So it is good if your avatar is similar to you because you know your own pain points. OK so the first thing then is to really be specific about who you're speaking to and why. Paula: [00:16:40] Yes because I think pageviews and income both stem from there. All three of those things are kind of her married together. Advice: Find an ad network Paula: [00:16:51] And then I guess my advice would be to find some sort of network. Most people start with Google AdSense. And then when you have more pages you can move along. Because that's just an easy way to keep doing what you're doing but monetize it. And you don't have to stress out about chasing a brand or anything like that at first, like I'd really keep it as stress-free as possible for as long as you can. Jillian: [00:17:16] And that's passive income. So you're just like making money as you sleep. What would be your third recommendation? Advice: Find a sponsored post network to start working with brands Paula: [00:17:34] I guess that would be sponsored posts. I would sign up for three or four networks, and try to get your feet wet working with brands through sponsored content. Izea was the first one I worked with and I feel like I learned how to work with brands through that network, because they would lay out how they wanted a post to look and how they wanted me to talk about the brand and how to take the photos. Paula: [00:18:02] And so there a lot of training in that, that I've kind of implemented into how I pitch a brand myself or as I'm making my own deals, or even as I'm using affiliate marketing. It's stemming from this education that I got through sponsored post networks from years ago. Jillian: [00:18:18] And what networks do you typically recommend? Paula: [00:18:22] Izea is my fav. I like them because they're kind humans, so they're like the places I like and I put emphasis on them like they're kind, and that's why I like them. Jillian: [00:18:37] It is all about relationships. Paula: [00:18:40] It is. It is. My ad network and Izea called me when Harvey hit and checked on me, and like personal messages from campaign managers they were messaging me. Are you ok? How's your family? Can we help you? Like, wow that's amazing. They know where I live. They know what's happening and they care. So that's the thing I care about. And also they help me pay the bills. Jillian: [00:19:07] First of all, what ad networks do you use? Paula: [00:19:11] I use AdThrive for my travel blog and Beauty Through Imperfection. And I'm on MediaVine for my food blog. Jillian: [00:19:18] OK and we use AdThrive for Catch My Party. Paula: [00:19:22] I love both. I really don't have complaints about either. I wasn't big enough for AdThrive, which is why it's a MediaVine. But I'm really enjoying my experience there as well, so I like having my hands in both. Jillian: [00:19:39] So what other sponsored content companies do you work with or do you recommend? Paula: [00:19:48] Clever is another one of my favorites. I worked with them quite a bit. Clever and Sway are probably the ones I work with more than anyone else. Jillian: [00:20:05] Now if you're small like you're just starting out, would these companies want to work with you, or is there usually a threshold? Paula: [00:20:14] Some of them do have a threshold before they'll even accept you. Paula: [00:20:20] And I feel like they're always changing, so I don't remember the numbers now, but the way I did my blog was I kind of waited until I was at 30k to 50k pageviews before I started pursuing things like this. Paula: [00:20:33] And the reason for that is you can get the odd sponsored posts or brand that might want to work with you when your blog is smaller, but you're going to spend so much time and effort finding that brand, that you could have been pouring that time into churning out awesome content and creating great things for your readers that would push you over that hump, where it's much easier to get sponsored content and the brands are kind of seeking you out a little bit more. Advice: Build your audience before reaching out to brands Paula: [00:21:02] So I would go ahead and sign up for them but maybe don't pour hours and hours and hours of work into that until you're about 30k to 50k pageviews a month because it'll just be a lot easier that way. Jillian: [00:21:17] Yes I would agree with that. And again I think as bloggers we have two scarce resources: money and time. And you always have to be thinking in terms of both of those. So if you're going to make fifty dollars from doing a sponsored post is that worth your time? It might be worth that if you're making two hundred dollars. Because it's probably the same amount of work. So that's always something to keep in mind. Advice: How to reach out to brands Jillian: [00:21:51] Now you mentioned reaching out to brands. Yes. How does that work? Paula: [00:22:02] It works in a lot of different ways. I use Twitter a lot to just kind of talk to brands and get on their radar if they're active on Twitter. It's one of the only things Twitter is good for. Jillian: [00:22:15] I totally agree. Brands are listening and they're listening predominantly on Twitter, like it's the most direct way and these are their social media people who are listening. So it kind of directs you to the right person. Paula: [00:22:32] So I'll do tweets for brands. Take a photo of us at some place that I want to work with. I'll respond to them and I'll retweet them, all things that I do charge money for. But if I'm wanting to create a big ambassadorship relationship with a brand, then I'll do that stuff for free on Twitter to get their attention. I wouldn't do a huge blog post or anything for free but a two second tweet. Paula: [00:23:01] And then if I am successful on Twitter then I'll usually direct message them and say I love their brand and it's been fun chatting with them. Who's the right person to e-mail with a marketing request or with a blogging partnership idea? If you can get the correct email, that is 90 percent of the work that you need to do. I mean finding those emails is really really hard sometimes. If that doesn't work or I don't have enough time to do that, then I will just go to a Web site of somebody I work with, and I will search and search and search until I find that marketing person, and then I'll pitch them, and I'll tell them what I want to do, and I'll tell them short and concise who my audience is. You're going to go back to the avatar you created. Brands care a lot less about who I am than they care about who I'm talking to. And so I can tell them I talked to a 100k moms with kids in this age range and they're all interested in whatever their product is, or they have this problem and this is how I'm going to tell them that your product solves that problem. That's a lot better of a pitch than just I enjoy your product. Paula: [00:24:23] And I'm in your target audience and I have a hundred thousand people that want to buy a product. They just don't realize it yet. Jillian: [00:24:33] I like the way you outlined for the brand what you can provide to them so they don't have to do the work. So it's not a huge back and forth. Jillian: [00:24:49] To say up front this is what I can offer you. Do you even put I'd like to do a sponsored post with you, and this number of shares, and I charge this much money. Or do you keep it more open ended? Paula: [00:25:05] I keep it more open-ended because they might have a product launch that I wouldn't know anything about. Jillian: [00:26:02] I've found that if you can get them on the phone it's a great way to close the deal. Paula: [00:26:02] As terrifying as it is, I hate talking on the phone. But it does work. Advice: How to drive traffic to your site Jillian: [00:26:08] So as a social media marketing expert, how are you driving traffic to your blogs? Where would the low hanging fruit be? Paula: [00:26:27] So I do try to keep a good balance. I feel like when I first started out, again this was years ago. So Pinterest was super easy back then. Like you just pinned something and watch your real time analytics go up and it was glorious. And that's not the case anymore, but I still have strived to keep things a bit more even. Instead of getting 90 percent of my traffic from Pinterest, when they change their algorithm I think we all realize that that was a really bad idea to have 90 percent of our traffic coming from anywhere. Paula: [00:27:03] And so now it's kind of split more into thirds, or maybe I guess quarters. So Facebook, Pinterest, and search are my highest. And then there's just this other quarter of random other stuff. So I try to make sure I'm maintaining all three of those things, and to be honest like Facebook is a weak point for me. I don't enjoy putting in all the work that it takes to have a really successful viral Facebook page. I know how to do it, but I don't like it, so I don't focus there as much. As far as growing my own page, and what I do there, when I realized I was really weak in that area, was I partnered with other bloggers who have a great solid Facebook strategy, and they have this huge page, and I offer them my services for free in exchange for shares. Paula: [00:27:51] My Facebook was really weak, my Pinterest is really strong. And so instead of waiting the year or even a few months that it would take for me to grow my Facebook page, I kept doing the things that I love doing, which is writing and connecting with my fans in other ways. And I work for other bloggers and take advantage of their Facebook pages. I mean I say take advantage. It sounds so mean. But I use their powers to get traffic to my site while giving them something in exchange for most of them. Like I said, I know the strategy, I just don't want to spend 10 hours a day doing it and honestly those bloggers don't either. So they're happy for me to come in and take one or two of those hours a week, in exchange for shares, and that kind of rounds out the weak point for me. Jillian: [00:28:42] And that will drive significant traffic to your site. The power of Facebook. If you can corral it and get it can work for you. It's amazing. But I've mentioned this previously, Facebook drives traffic to our site, but nothing but not like these super Facebook people. Paula: [00:29:05] Right. Exactly. And I knew I'm never going to be a super Facebook person myself, because I don't want to pay someone to do that. I know some of the strategies just aren't really in line with what I want for my page. And so I don't do it, and I don't compromise on that. But you find a work around. I'm able to use someone else's page to get the traffic, and then keep my Facebook page how I want it to be. Everybody wins. Everybody is getting what they want out of the deal. Thoughts about video Jillian: [00:29:40] What about video? Are you making video? Is video a part of your business and how do you feel about the idea? Paula: [00:29:49] I agree with everyone that videos is the future and it's a really big deal. But I'm a writer, and I love writing, and and this is a long time coming, like for a long time my identity and who I was was tied up in the success and failure of my blog, and getting more page views and growing. And a couple years ago, I just hadn't realized like why am I wanting to be bigger and bigger and bigger? This is kind of ridiculous. I'm at a good size and I'm happy at the size that I am. And I would love to be making ninety seven figures a month. Sure. That would be great. But what am I sacrificing to get that? I'm sacrificing my happiness. I'm sacrificing time with my family. I'm a person that does have high anxiety and I've had depression for like 12 years. And so there are times when life hits me like a truck and I can't work. And that's just not realistic for a site that has five million pages a month. I'm just throwing out massive numbers because we all just think bigger. It doesn't matter how big you get. You want to be bigger. And so I stopped all of that. And this is related to video I promise. How to run a business while dealing with anxiety Paula: [00:31:05] So I kind of stopped trying to chase those things and I'm more focused on maintaining what I have. My blog is our family's only income now, so I can't just put it aside. I can't just take a week off. like I can't do any of those things, but I have maintained now our family budget and a little bit over that, every month for about two years, and that's all I want to do. I am not striving super hard to make double my income. It's really hard in this industry because we can double our income. And what other industry can you do that in? You can't work harder at another job and double your income. And so it felt really wrong to not do that, to not jump on the next big train that's going to make your things go viral, and that's going to grow your page and all of that. And I followed that for a while, and finally realized like no, I'm not I'm not going to do it. And so video is kind of tied to that for me because it's something I hate doing. Paula: [00:32:08] When it comes to the editing process I hate it. And I don't want to hire out that much of what I'm doing. I like keeping things close to home. And it was just too much at this point in my life. At this point I didn't want to do it. I didn't enjoy doing it. The thought of it stressed me out. I'm just going to maintain what I'm doing and continue loving what I'm doing and continue paying the bills and then having just a really low key life that I actually enjoy. Jillian: [00:32:39] I think as mothers, especially as you were talking about how you go through these different stages. And my daughter now is 10. And it's amazing because I never thought this would happen, like I never thought that she could be as independent as she is or she can even help me with things, like she says she's going to be editing my podcasts. That hasn't happened yet, but she knows how to use Garage Band. Jillian: [00:33:10] So it's like you go through these windows with your family as your family grows, where eventually you might be able to take on more, or take or less depending, but there's something to recognizing that the way it is today, it will not be this way in a year and it will definitely not be this way in five years. Jillian: [00:33:32] And to be able to kind of roll with that. If you've been at this a long time, like we have, we've seen a lot of changes in the world of social media and the Internet and stuff, and you've also seen a lot of changes over the last let's say five years in your family. So you kind of think the better you are at uncertainty the more successful you will be. Paula: [00:33:55] Yes I agree completely. Jillian: [00:33:58] So if you were if you were to give one piece of advice to bloggers starting out today, that you wish you had known, what do you think it would be? Advice: You're not your business Paula: [00:34:12] Well I kind of hit it a little bit a second ago, and this is very personal to me. It just. You're not your business. And so succeed or fail, that doesn't define you and I did not know that when I started, and this is a very personal business. You're putting your life on the Internet even if you're a food blogger, you're putting your family's recipes on the Internet for people to hate or people to love. And when everybody is loving you that can feel really good. But I think that's just as dangerous as when everybody's hating on you. And so I've really learned to hold what people say loosely. The good things they say about me are held just as loosely as the bad things because what matters is what people in my real life think about me. What matters is that I'm being a kind person to the people around me and I'm doing things that I believe in. And pageviews don't always reflect that. And pageviews don't reflect your heart. I think one of the most popular, as far as people emailing me and saying this post changed my life is the greatest thing I've ever written, that post I think got 250 pageviews on it. Is like nothing for my blog, and I still remember the things that people said about it and it was beautiful and it was wonderful. But getting that next million billion pageviews is not what it's about. And it is not where your woth is found. Paula: [00:35:44] And so being able to hold loosely to those things has helped with my anxiety, and I know that not everybody has anxiety about blogging. I wish the message that I had when I was starting out is that you're a lot more than this, succeed or fail. Jillian: [00:36:01] I love that. And I would say, you show me a blogger and I will show you somebody who has blogging anxiety. It's like they come hand in hand again. Paula: [00:36:12] And you're right because there is a personal piece to this. You are putting a part of yourself out on the Internet. And again you have to be intentional about how much of yourself you're putting out there, and understand what the ramifications are for that. Paula: [00:36:39] And it's hard and it's wonderful and it's awful all at once. Jillian: [00:36:43] Absolutely. Absolutely. And what about your business right now are you most excited about? Plans for a new blog series Paula: [00:36:51] Well I am not doing it yet, but I have plans for a new series on Beauty Through Imperfection. I've been in just a funky spot for a while because I still write the things that I care about for new moms and stuff, but I am in a new season of life and I'm trying to figure out how to incorporate that new season, and what I care about personally. Like for me what I care about into my blog without losing its voice, and so I'm starting this new series. It was supposed to launch this fall and then Hurricane Harvey hit and that just kind of threw our whole city into madness. So I'm hoping for next spring. Jillian: [00:37:32] Was your house OK? Paula: [00:37:34] Yes. Our house was fine. But like within walking distance there was five feet of water. So it's just our grocery stores are still gone like it's just crazy here. Paula: [00:37:45] I've been thinking about this project for a while, and so it's going to be called Beautiful Perspectives, and I'm going to have people hopefully just write about their lives and write about their struggles and their challenges and and hopefully cover places that I can't cover as just a pretty average person. So I want to bring in people who are not like me, and people who I have questions about and this may actually incorporate some video interviews that are going to be pretty low key and unedited. But my goal is just to break down walls between people and maybe walls you didn't even know existed, and just make me get more comfortable to approach people who look different than you and act differently than you, and live drastically different lives. Paula: [00:38:29] And I'm really excited about it because that's what I care about in my real life, and I'm finding a way to incorporate that into my blog. And I don't think it's gonna be a huge income generator or anything like that, but that goes back to being able to let go of those things and maintain that income and now I can do something that might reach a couple of hundred people, but it's reaching them with something that I care about. Jillian: [00:38:53] And I would say that when we go towards stuff like that, you don't know where it's going to lead. It could be a book. Who knows? But if you could trust that voice inside to say I'm not sure how I'm going to monetize this but at least I'm going to try it out. It feeds your soul and it makes that job easier. Paula: [00:39:25] Right. Because the things that I write about to pay the bills are not things I love. But they're important and they're helping people and that's fine. But I'm able to add the soul feeding thing that I love. And that's what I'm excited about. I'm not really excited about my next paycheck. Paula: [00:39:47] How this will maybe just impact a couple of people like I said, that post reached 250 people, but I think it reached them with something that I want to be my legacy or the thing that I'm remembered for. Jillian: [00:40:05] Is there an online tool that you use for your business that you can't live without? Advice: Using SEMrush to improve SEO Paula: [00:40:13] Yes. And I will say it's expensive and I don't do expensive, but SEMrush is something that I've gotten in the past year and I'm kind of obsessed with. It's an SEO tool, and has just so much that I feel like I've been using it since May, and I still have barely scratch the surface with the data it's giving me. Paula: [00:40:34] But it tells you every back link to your site. It tells you what page you're ranking on in Google for any search term. And it's just nutty the amount of information. And it makes it really nice because I can kind of scroll through and look for... oh on page 2 of Google with this random search term, I'm going to create more content around this. And so that's been a game changer for me. Like I said I have Facebook, Pinterest, and search. Search used to be not even on my radar and the past few months, it's now number three. And like substantially number three. Not like a huge margin of error. It's matching Facebook now as far as what I'm getting in traffic, which is a first for me. And I genuinely owe that to SEMrush, which is obnoxiously expensive but worth every penny. So proud that. Jillian: [00:41:31] OK. We'll be linking to it in the show notes. It's been recommended to me so many times. But because you just said that, I am going to sign up. Paula: [00:41:40] Well I took a class at a conference at Tbex this summer and it was the most comprehensive and actually helpful thing on SEO that I ever attended in my life. I literally walked up to the woman and said, Will you coach me? And she said I don't do coaching. And I was, Let me rephrase. How much to buy an hour of your time? Paula: [00:42:00] I don't spend money. I'm very thrifty and this was worth it. I really trusted her recommendation because she knew what she was talking about with SEO and it's been really helpful. Jillian: [00:42:12] Well that's terrific. I love it. I literally going to get off this call and go sign up because it's been recommended to me over and over. Paula: [00:42:20] I had never heard of it, and now I see it popping up everywhere. Jillian: [00:42:27] And I do believe that when you hear a recommendation from a variety of people, you have to check it out. Jillian: [00:42:35] OK do you have any parting pieces of advice for bloggers. And then also how can people connect with you? Paula: [00:42:46] I say keep it fun and keep it realistic. I think there's a lot of information out there about specific paths to success or specific formulas, and I'm not saying those are not accurate, but make sure when you're adopting a formula, that it fits with your lifestyle and it fits with your personal goals, and it's going to be something you enjoy. So I think bloggers come and go really really quickly, and I think that the pain point that makes people quit, is that they put too much on their plate too fast, in order to try to follow what some very successful blogger said is the formula. It's not that that formula is wrong. Is it right for you right now in this moment, or do you need to focus on something else and move into this space at a slower rate because the space is always going to be here. There's like this urgency in the blogging community but we're here to stay. This is an awesome industry we're in. It's marketing and marketing is forever. So you have time to ease in and find your voice and find how you want this space to work for you. So take your time. Jillian: [00:43:57] I love that. I love that. Now let's go through all of your sites and how people can reach out to you and connect with you. Paula: [00:44:10] Beauty Through Imperfection is my main blog. That's the one I always joke that pays the bills. And then I have some others that I'm building slowly because I can't sit still. And so my food site is Dinner with the Rollos. My travel site is Traveling Family Blog. And then I have a Facebook community that is free, just join us if you want to. And that's Quick Blogging Tips. And I try to keep those tips under five minutes, something you can implement today. So it's super easy. Paula: [00:44:43] Teeny tiny improvements to your blog. And then you can always reach me on email, it's just my name, paularollo@gmail.com. And most of my social media handles are just my name as well. Jillian: [00:44:53] Are the tips that you're giving in your Facebook group, are those you jumping on live, or are they written tips? Paula: [00:45:04] They're mainly written tips. Again I'm a writer. I have been jumping on lives a little bit more, I'm trying to do that a little bit more because at least that doesn't have to be edited, so I can just talk. I've been doing that a little bit more especially now that school's in session, thank goodness. I'm trying to do some more live video in that group too. Jillian: [00:45:25] Well thank you Paula. Thank you so much for being here. Paula: [00:45:30] Thank you for having me. This was a really fun chat. Jillian: [00:45:35] If you're trying to grow your social media followers on Instagram, Facebook, YouTube, and Pinterest. Plus trying to grow your e-mail list. Definitely check out MiloTree. It is the smart popup. You add to your blog or your site, and it asks your visitors to follow you on social media or subscribe to your list. 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My guest is Kyndra Holley of Peace, Love, and Low Carb. Kyndra has struggled with her weight her whole life, and by documenting her journey into low carb eating, she has created both a successful food blog and business. In this episode we discuss the steps she took to grow her business, how her path wasn't always straight, but lead her to where she is today. This post is brought to you by MiloTree, the smart popup you embed on your blog or site to grow your social media following on Instagram, Facebook, YouTube, and Pinterest, plus your email list. Try it today and get your first 30 days free! Transcript - How To Turn Your Personal Struggle Into a Successful Business: Resources: Peace, Love and Low Carb Peace, Love and Low Carb cookbooks MiloTree Lulu AdThrive Jillian: [00:00:11] Hey! Today my guest is Kyndra Holley from Peace, Love and Low Carb. As a low carb eater myself, I have to say I was immediately drawn to her content, and I'm so happy she's here today to be on the show. So welcome. Kyndra: [00:00:32] Thank you so much. Thanks for having me. Jillian: [00:00:35] I want to start by asking you how you started, and really what inspired you. What's the story? Because I know there is a story behind Peace, Love, and Low Carb? How a personal struggle became a business Kyndra: [00:00:49] I usually start by saying it kind of happened by accident, which sounds strange but I didn't say I'm going to build a business, a brand, and start a blog, and write books. Kyndra: [00:00:58] I just was a girl who really struggled with her weight her whole life. And I stumbled upon low-carb through a friend that I worked with. She was like, "Hey I heard about Atkins. Let's do it." And so I was like, "OK, I'm in. She started her blog by photographing what she was eating Kyndra: [00:01:13] And from there I just kind of started photographing everything that I was eating and I made it my mission to recreate all of my favorite comfort foods as low carb versions instead of giving them up. Kyndra: [00:01:25] And I just started taking pictures of them with my phone. Facebook was getting really huge and I started a Facebook page. And meanwhile, I was blogging but I had it set to private setting like a diary, so I hadn't even unlocked that people. I was kind of documenting my weight loss journey on my blog. Jillian: [00:01:46] What year was this? Kyndra: [00:01:48] I started my blog in 2011, but my first go around with low carb was much earlier than. Jillian: [00:02:06] So then you made your blog public? Kyndra: [00:02:08] I just kind of started sharing what I was eating and what I was cooking for John and me. And then from there it just took on a life of its own. Jillian: [00:02:15] That's so impressive. And one thing that I love about your site, is how you have a very strong point of view. And you've been able to really build a business around that point of view. And can you share how you... you're not just a blogger, you're also an entrepreneur and you sell cookbooks and meal plans and how did you start to think about that and build out those other lines of business? Kyndra: [00:02:44] You know I'm a chronic researcher, and I'm just an entrepreneur by nature. You know, I joke and I say that I came out of the womb ready to build a business. And for me, it's all research and passion based. Kyndra: [00:02:58] So once I decided to make a go of this and this is going to be my career, I just completely jumped in and I started researching everything. Snd then I thought, hey, I can compile these ideas into a meal plan. People need that. You know trying to provide solutions for the questions that I get every single day. Jillian: [00:03:15] I love that you are solving people's real problems. And where would people be reaching out to you? Was it on social media? Were they e-mailing you? Where were they connecting with you? Kyndra: [00:03:26] Oh geez. Everywhere. Comments directly on my blog. Even e-mail. Social media. Any spot that has an inbox. Mine was getting blown up. Jillian: [00:03:36] Interesting. So what was the first product you built to support your blog? Her first self-published recipe book Kyndra: [00:03:44] The first time, I self-published a book. I didn't even try to get on with the publisher. I just said I'm going to do this. I have a really great friend who is a graphic designer, and I said, "Would you be willing to do this with me?" Kyndra: [00:03:57] And he said yes, and I just self-publish a full length recipe cookbook. Jillian: [00:04:02] Were these recipes that were living on your blog, or did you develop the recipes for the book? Kyndra: [00:04:07] Some were on the site, some of the ones that were popular and were starting to get traction. I put them in the book and then I made a lot that were exclusive just to the book, as well. Jillian: [00:04:16] And then where did you start selling it? Kyndra: [00:04:19] I signed up through Lulu. It's a place where you can self-publish. And then I added it to Amazon. I'm just kind of used those channels and it's kind of harder to open up for wider distribution. And I just really was winging it all. And in hindsight I could have done it better. I mean that's kind of how it always goes right. Jillian: [00:04:42] And then how did you promote your first book, like how did you get sales? Kyndra: [00:04:48] Well, I got really lucky timing-wise because I like to call it the glory days of Facebook. Kyndra: [00:04:52] Before Facebook started adding all of these algorithms, I literally just posted and then within an hour, hundreds would sell because at the time, Facebook showed your post to all of your followers. And so I really didn't need to do much beyond that. It was kind of like just this really sweet spot in Facebook history. Jillian: [00:05:14] Yes. And then that inspired you to go on to write other books to build other products? What was that evolution like? Kyndra: [00:05:23] So from there, after that, that was kind of the only product that had for a while. I did some other smaller kind of niche books, like one just for side dishes. Again kind of solving problems, you would say. Kyndra: [00:05:36] Yeah, I can cook a steak, but what I serve with it that's low carb, you know? But then I went into a period where I really focused on the business of blogging. Treating her blog like a business Kyndra: [00:05:47] If you treat something like a hobby it's a hobby forever. So I believe that if you want to do something as a business, you treat it like it's a business while it's still just a hobby. Jillian: [00:05:57] Absolutely. Again it's all about mindset. Absolutely. So what did that shift look like for you, or how did you take what was a what somebody might say is like a small side hustle, and actually say, no, I'm going to pull this front and center. Kyndra: [00:06:12] You know I was still working full time in restaurants. Kyndra: [00:06:16] I have almost a 20-year background in the restaurant business, which I do think really helps me be successful in my own business, but I just again, I just started researching everything. If I didn't know it. I looked it up. I'm a person who if you ask me something and I don't know the answer, you can rest assured the next time somebody asks that question, I'm going to give them a whole dissertation about it so that you know. Kyndra: [00:06:41] So I just really kind of started looking into how to monetize and just totally fine tuning my craft, learning, growing, and in the beginning, I was even doing all the HTML coding for my site and I had no background in it. Jillian: [00:06:57] I love that. Now let's talk about what your revenue streams look like currently. Where do you make money? Kyndra: [00:07:08] They're all over the place. I am a firm believer that you don't put all your eggs in one basket, so I make a lot of money from the digital products that I sell through my site, and that just goes straight to me, affiliate programs with brands and companies that are aligned with my mission and vision and use their products. Jillian: [00:07:30] So what's an example then of an affiliate product that is on your site that you support? Monetizing through affiliate marketing Kyndra: [00:07:37] It can go a couple of different ways. So Amazon is a big affiliate program. So in my recipes, like take for example, I have a flourless chewy chocolate cookie recipe that has just gone crazy on my site. I like the products that I use, for example, the exact chocolate chips that I use, the only flour that I use, and then that brings in a small portion of revenue. People buy through those links. Jillian: [00:08:01] And with Amazon. It's really just they need to click over to Amazon and then if they buy a TV that day, so you make an affiliate fee. Kyndra: [00:08:12] Yes absolutely. And that's really great around the holidays, as well as people Christmas shopping. Jillian: [00:08:17] That's a good tip! Ok ok so you're also making money through affiliate sales. Kyndra: [00:08:26] And then a lot of times I'll do brand partnerships. They have their own affiliate programs built in. So if I have a, you know, a brand that I really like, I work a lot with a company called Low Carb Foods. And again they're just a small family-based business that they're really providing solutions, so they're putting out low carb products with clean ingredients that are diabetic friendly and I like them as people, I like their products. Monetizing through brand partnerships Kyndra: [00:08:52] So you'll see links to those I'll do it on my Instagram Stories or on my blog. But then another avenue with those brand partnerships is sponsored posts. So I'll say here is a package that you will get. I will do a review of your product on my site. Ill feature it in a recipe and it will go out in my newsletter. Do social media blasts. And then there's a package ready for that. So it's another revenue stream outside of their affiliate program. Jillian: [00:09:22] Now are you reaching out to these brands or are these brands reaching out to you? Kyndra: [00:09:26] You know, this is that's kind of funny because that was a real learning curve as well, as I grew this and it kind of goes with the lesson of never to sell yourself short. So in the beginning, I was reaching out to companies and was saying, here is the traffic on my site. Here is what I can give you in terms of exposure. Kyndra: [00:09:42] Please just send me your free product. So I valued myself by just letting them send me a free product and then promoting it all over the place. Kyndra: [00:09:52] And so these days it's more of filtering opportunities that are coming through me. And then there's a series of questions that I go through like, a mental checklist when I get these e-mails of brands and companies that would want to work with me and partner with Peace, Love, and Low Carb. Jillian: [00:10:08] Got it. So in the beginning we were reaching out to them and you were selling yourself short by just accepting product. And then over time, as you became more established, brands started reaching out to you. And you would then say great I'd like to work with you. Here is my package. Kyndra: [00:10:25] I have a media kit on my site, and it has several different options for ways to work together, as well as an option to set up a custom package. Jillian: [00:10:33] And do you have the pricing on your website? Kyndra: [00:10:36] You know I didn't used to. But then I thought it's not something to be ashamed of, my social clout and all my stats are there across all social channels. Why not go ahead and put the pricing on there. Then it kind of cuts down on the e-mails to take a look at the pricing, and they say hey I would never pay that. Or I only send free product. They don't e-mail and so it's less to filter through. Jillian: [00:10:56] I like that. I like that. OK. I just want to say a couple things that I notice that I think are really special about what you're doing. One, you are a food blogger but you're a niche food blogger. And I think that that has probably worked to your advantage because I know exactly what I'm going to get. If I'm a brand and I work with you,and I make low-carb foods, you're my person. I want that. So I think that again I always say this, the internet's a really big place, and if you can find your niche and go deep into it, and be authentic, I feel like you have a leg up. Like you have a leg up over your general food blogger. Now your cakes might not perform as well as those gooey delicious fondant cakes, but you've been able to really carve out a place for yourself on the Internet. So I just have to call that out. And that everything you've been able to build off of it, all comes from people who are really looking for low carb solutions. Kyndra: [00:12:12] It's a blessing and a curse. So for a while as you know, my own lifestyle changed and I tried different things. I really felt locked in because I actually had low carb in the title, and that kind of dietary climate wasn't always what it is. Kyndra: [00:12:27] Now there's a very big uptake in low carb in Paleo and it's great to see someone who is kind of at the forefront of that movement because my blog is heading into its seventh year. But in the beginning people poo-pooed low carb so much. Yes. And then when Paleo got really huge, you know a lot of the Paleo influencers were kind of bashing low carb as well. And so I kind of went through this period where, gosh, why you get so specific. Kyndra: [00:12:53] Now that people have caught on and we're kind of moving away from the fat phobic society that we've been in, now I'm able to say I stuck true to my mission for all of these years and it paid off. Jillian: [00:13:06] Yes. And again who knows. Like there is tremendous uncertainty in picking a name. and it might go your way. Like you were saying you were on Facebook at the exact time where you could sell books. So again sometimes you get lucky, like you with Facebook, it was the perfect time to be selling cookbooks on Facebook, but a lot of times also you make these opportunities for yourself by making a decision, seeing if it works, and if it's not working pull up and try something else. Jillian: [00:13:36] So let's go through the other income streams that you have that we haven't touched on. Monetizing through ads Kyndra: [00:13:43] OK. So obviously there is ad revenue from this site. That's a big one. Jillian: [00:13:48] And who and what ad network do you use? Kyndra: [00:13:51] I use AdThrive. And they they've been amazing for years. Jillian: [00:14:09] And we are big fans of Ad Thrive as well. Kyndra: [00:14:11] And some of the other ones is partnering with other bloggers to help promote their products through their affiliate programs. So it's still a form of affiliate marketing but it's kind of like a rising tide lifts all boats. Jillian: [00:14:23] I love that. I love that. So somebody will come to you who you probably know through social media and being in your niche and says, I have this new cookbook. Will you promote it and you get a cut of the sales. Is that how it works? Kyndra: [00:14:41] Yeah absolutely. And I always believed that there's enough room for all of us and that if you're coming from a place of authenticity and nature and passion that it doesn't matter if someone's doing something similarly to you. So for example I sell meal plans but I push other people's meal plas as well, because mine might not be right for them. Kyndra: [00:15:01] But this other blogger might have mealplans that worked for some of my audience so I don't believe that in order for mine to be successful I have to not promote others. Jillian: [00:15:11] I love that. And again this is something I work on in my own life which is mindset, and this belief that you see the world through lenses. And one of those lenses is scarcity. And one of them is abundance, and we're constantly switching between these two. But when I notice myself seeing the world through scarcity, there's just not enough whatever that is. I really say, whoa I'm going to try to take these glasses off and put on the abundant glasses and see what the world looks like. Kyndra: [00:15:46] I love them so much, and I feel like you're speaking right to my heart there because when you come from a scarcity mindset or even a poverty mindset, then it is so hard to see the other side of that and to dig yourself out of that hole, because the tendencies that come along with that run so deep. And I'm so happy to hear you say that because that is kind of something that I try to do. I think that I operate from a place of abundance or manifesting what I want in my life, by pretending I already have it, like fake it til you make it. I don't like the words "fake it. Jillian: [00:16:22] I have a daughter and I say that to her all the time which is "fake it til you make it." I say to her be an actress. Pretend as if it's already happened. My daughter's ten and she loves being an actress. But there is something about embodying the feeling of success. So you understand how that feels. Kyndra: [00:16:50] Yeah it's like saying dress for the job you want or the job you have. Jillian: [00:16:55] I love it. Yeah. Absolutely. So let's talk about social media for you and your journey through social media. What is driving traffic to you? You have a nice social media followers. How has that worked for you? Social media marketing strategies Kyndra: [00:17:15] Social media is a blessing and a curse because it can be a very an evil place to be. There's a lot of mean people hiding behind computers. However, it is the primary traffic driver to anybody who is trying to run any kind of website, blog, business, brand. Even if you're just in the business of marketing. So my top two referrers are Pinterest and Facebook. And so I started Facebook very early on, as soon as I started my blog. So I grew very organically and pretty fast on Facebook and then Pinterest just kind of changed the landscape for referrers, like with traffic referrals for food bloggers, especially, like give you food blogging, like mommy bloggers or even crafters anything DIY at all. Even the projects that people say they're going to do that they never do. They like to look for them. Same with recipes. Jillian: [00:18:09] Yes definitely. And Pinterest is a huge traffic driver for us too at Catch My Party. I love Pinterest. Yeah. And so today. So how active are you on those platforms? [00:18:23] I'm extremely active on those platforms, so I run the Facebook page for my blog. And then I also run a group that's kind of a recipe sharing group but it's more of a support group. And I just call that Peace, Love and Low-Carb Friends. It goes along with my blog. And so I'm active in there, interacting with people and they're sharing their stories. And then I'm also on Instagram where I do a lot of Instagram Stories and sharing recipes on there. And I would say Instagram is actually probably my favorite social media platform. Jillian: [00:18:52] Are you getting traffic from Instagram or is it really about brand building? Kyndra: [00:18:57] I am using a site called Linkinprofile. Jillian: [00:19:00] We use that! Kyndra: [00:19:00] It's a paid subscription that I was happy to pay for, to try out, because it was a small amount to pay and a low risk to see if it worked. Kyndra: [00:19:21] So I like to post something on Instagram with the link and then go into my Google Analytics and watch the traffic flow and kind of gauge. is this successful. Is this third party that I'm using something I want to continue to use? And it's been great. Sending newsletters Jillian: [00:19:38] Now do you send newsletters? Kyndra: [00:19:42] I do send newsletter. Jillian: [00:19:44] OK so how often and what is your newsletter about? Kyndra: [00:19:48] You know I probably send them more than my readers would like. I just get excited so I usually send one out every time I have a new recipe on my site, or just something that I want to share, or one of my books is on sale, things like that. Kyndra: [00:20:02] But usually it's kind of a curated post. So it's not just one recipe. The title might be you know, "Low Carb Lasagna," but within it you're going to find some other recipes that you could pair with that, or other recipes that are doing well on the site at the time. Jillian: [00:20:16] Got it. And are you reaching out to your subscribers once a week twice a week? Is it on a Monday or is it whenever you feel like it? Kyndra: [00:20:27] Like every two to three days and sometimes less, sometimes more. Kyndra: [00:20:33] I try t go with just what's going on. What do I want them to know, what do they need to know. Jillian: [00:20:45] Got it. Now as a food blogger, does video fit in? And if so, how does that work for you? Creating video and live video Kyndra: [00:20:54] Video is huge right now across all social media and all of the new algorithms are really giving video preference. And I'm in the process of wrapping up another full length professionally published cookbook, and working on the manuscript for a second one that is also coming out very soon, and I haven't had the time to dedicate to video. I actually just recently hired it out to do some of those kind of Tasty-style overhead shot videos. Jillian: [00:21:22] Then are you posting those? Are they like 30-second videos? Or one minute videos or are these longer videos that you can also use on YouTube? Kyndra: [00:21:40] They are the shorter one minute or less video so that I can post them on Instagram, because on Instagram it has to be less than one minute.And then having a square format and then a full frame format, that I can post it on YouTube because I'm also trying to work on building YouTube now. Jillian: [00:21:57] Great. I love that. And also did you say or am I making this up, that you do live video. You do. You do Instagram Stories. Kyndra: [00:22:06] I do. I do Instagram Stories, and from time to time I do Instagram Live, but I want to start doing more cooking demos. So a lot of times I'll just set my phone up in my kitchen and I'll show the step by step but on Instagram stories you have 20 seconds. And then on Instagram live you have 30 minutes. Kyndra: [00:22:23] I had an idea to do a Friday cocktails with Kyndra. Since I'm writing a drink book and just fun things like that where it's another way to connect with my audience. And in more of a full format then here's 50 seconds of a set up video. Jillian: [00:22:41] And how do you prioritize, because you have your fingers in a lot of different pots. Kyndra: [00:22:48] You know, people ask me all the time if I have a secret clone. If I have a twin and I don't talk about it. It's my own fault sometimes. I don't really have an off button, but I love what I do. So I've had friends that have said almost in a negative way, I would never want to do it because I didn't want to work that much. Kyndra: [00:23:06] And I can't really take it personally because I think, I love my job. If I have too much time off, I start just seem to get back to it prior to running my own business. I was a clock puncher. I want to go to work for someone else and so from them I said I can see why they think all you do is work. But for me I think I get to do this like I wake up every morning and I don't ever say, oh, I have to do this. I get up and I say, I get to do this! Jillian: [00:23:33] Don't you love when you're waking up in the morning, or right before I go to bed. And I have an idea that I become really excited about and then I start... sometimes it's hard to go to sleep because I'm like OK if I do this, and this, like here's what I need to do. I can make that happen. Kyndra: [00:23:53] Yes I'm very much the same way. I want to capture the ideas that I have. If you were to look inside my Evernote, I have it across so many devices. It's like a digital scratch pad that I would probably look like a lunatic. Life as an entrepreneur Jillian: [00:24:07] How many hours a week do you work on your business. Kyndra: [00:24:11] Honestly gosh a lot. Kyndra: [00:24:16] Well over a 40 hour work week. Especially right now because I'm working on these books. But the other side of that is that I have so much time freedom when I want to. So if I want to say, I'm here, I'm going to work tonight, I'm going to work till 2 in the morning and I'm not going to work tomorrow to make up for it, I can. Or, we just got back from a two week vacation in Hawaii, and then we're leaving again in two and a half weeks, and so there's a lot of freedom with it. But it is a lot of hours and I feel like probably the amount of hours as a surgeon right now. Jillian: [00:24:45] For us, I work with my husband. It is a lot of hours. But again, having that freedom to be with my daughter if she's sick, I can take care of her and when she's watching a video, I can go do a couple of emails. And then when she's better, I can refocus and dig in. Kyndra: [00:25:11] Exactly. And so for me, and I'm sure you can relate to this too. Kyndra: [00:25:17] Everything that I do now, every minute that I put in, every idea that I have, the output is a direct correlation to what I put in. Whereas if I'm working for someone else, why would I to work harder than I have to? I mean I get paid the same. And so now it's the harder I work, the more I follow through with my ideas, the more money I make and the better lifestyle my family has. Jillian: [00:25:40] I couldn't agree with you more. Again the hard part is in being an entrepreneur is that there's a certain personality that can really thrive, and you have to be a self-starter. You have to be willing to try stuff, you have to be willing to trust yourself. You have to work with yourself more than against yourself. Jillian: [00:26:01] But if you have that personality, I think there is nothing better. Kyndra: [00:26:06] Yeah, I definitely am a Type A personality and it has suited me well. I'm a person who's I'm just not afraid to take risks. And I think part of that was all the years that I spent in the restaurant industry, because I could literally go do it anywhere in the world and I could pick it up at any time. So a little bit I have a safety net, but I've just been a person who has been sure enough in my resolve to see things through. I've never been afraid to take a leap of faith because what's the worst thing that happens. Kyndra: [00:26:35] It doesn't work out. Big deal, you do something else. Jillian: [00:26:38] I love that. I love it. Now what one tool do you use in your business that you couldn't live without? Kyndra: [00:26:50] I'm just a list maker and I kind of use redundancy, and I use Evernote. I use it to write everything down. But organizationally I think that Evernote is probably my favorite thing I use right now. New cookbooks books on the horizon Jillian: [00:27:05] And what about your business. What are you most excited about at this moment? Kyndra: [00:27:12] I'm really really excited about the new books that I have coming out because I feel like I poured myself into these. The books that I have coming out, it kind of reads like a personal journal with 150 recipes in it. I'm very connected with my readers right now. They know that I'm not just a robot behind the screen. They feel like they know me. Kyndra: [00:27:38] They can tell me all the names of all of my dogs and I've just really opened up and I'm just very very excited to put this product out into the world because I feel like every single page is just oozing with me, like the essence of me. Jillian: [00:27:54] So you're putting some vulnerability in this one. Kyndra: [00:27:57] Oh so much. Yes so much. Jillian: [00:28:00] Is that scary? Kyndra: [00:28:03] It is. But I think that if even one person read my story and felt less alone in this world then I've accomplished what I set out to do. Even if it was only one person. I'm very big on human connection and making people realize that they can do things and that they are enough. And so being vulnerable and sharing my story helps even one person say, you know what? I'm not alone and I am worthy. Then mission accomplished. Jillian: [00:28:31] Oh I love that. What one piece of advice do you wish you had before you started all of this? The importance of SEO Kyndra: [00:28:41] I wish I knew more about SEO in the beginning. So part of blogging and running a successful blog, and writing it as a business is staying ahead of curves and trends, and constantly researching and being constantly on your game. Kyndra: [00:29:01] It's not a profession where you can rest on your laurels. But it's also like constantly chasing a moving target. Algorithms change. Pleasing the Google gods... It can make or break you. And they constantly change the game and you have to stay ahead of it. And so in the beginning, I was just trying to lose weight in writing recipes. I wasn't focusing on keywords or making sure that I was doing all the right things to get traffic there. Kyndra: [00:29:32] So here I am, almost seven years later, and I'm going back and redoing a lot of those earlier posts. Some of them didn't even have lead ins written to it, where there would be keywords to get people to come through. Jillian: [00:29:42] Interesting. And also going back and redoing those posts, I'm sure just gives you even more SEO bump. There's some mixed reviews about whether you should leave posts alone or whether you should revive them. Kyndra: [00:29:56] And I think reviving some with... I'm constantly working on my photography Also I'm self-taught in every area of this whole blogging and business. So I am really going back and redoing the photos, making them SEO friendly and it's a lot of fun but it's also really rewarding to see people visiting posts they may never have visited. Jillian: [00:30:18] I'm of the school going back and adding new photos and freshening up those posts does help with SEO. Kyndra: [00:30:26] Yeah I am inclined to agree as well. Jillian: [00:30:29] So given that you're very active on social media. Do you have any advice for people trying to grow their social followers or how to think about social media. Kyndra: [00:30:42] I do for sure. Kyndra: [00:30:43] In fact, I'm kind of a junkie and one of my favorite quotes ever is by Theodore Roosevelt. "Comparison is the thief of joy."It is very easy to get stuck in a shame spiral where you're scrolling, scrolling, scrolling. But the thing I think that's important to remember is if you're going to spend any time on social media as a business owner, as an influencer, or just someone who really likes to hang out there, is to remember that you're seeing perfectly crafted images, videos, status updates go by and that you're really only seeing the highlight reel of someone's life. Kyndra: [00:31:23] And on the other side of that I always try to show quite literally all the good, the bad, the ugly, the bad days, the good days, the fluctuations in my weight to show people... you're not alone. That likely what you're seeing is just perfectly crafted boosted tidbits of someone's life that seems perfect. They could be falling apart behind the scenes, their business could be falling apart, you know, life could be falling apart, so don't measure your worth from a business or personal standpoint. Don't buy anything you see on social media. Jillian: [00:31:56] Oh I love that. And in fact that's one of the reasons why I've started this podcast. I notice I keep hearing this message over and over again. Kyndra: [00:32:08] It can really tear you down. I mean we're hard enough on ourselves on a daily basis, let alone letting the seemingly perfect life or business of others let you feel back about yourself. Jillian: [00:32:21] OK. So for somebody just starting out today in the world the way it is today, and the landscape, what is the one thing you would say to them to get a leg up? Kyndra: [00:32:34] I would say don't do it for the sake of doing it. Kyndra: [00:32:38] There has to be a real passion behind it because it will take everything you have to make it successful. I think that a lot of people misunderstood blogging and they thought oh that's so cute. Kyndra: [00:32:51] She sits at home and she's like oh she's adorable. Kyndra: [00:32:54] Her husband must make a lot of money you know. It's a business and I'm the breadwinner for our family, and I treat it like a business. But it started from a genuine place of passion. Kyndra: [00:33:05] So I don't think you can just see an opening and jump on it and say OK I'm watching all these bloggers six figures, multi six figures, I'm going to start a blog. You have to have something to say, you have to be passionate about something or it just won't work. Jillian: [00:33:17] I think that is absolutely true. I always say you have to know what your "why" is. "Why" are you doing this?. Because this is a long slog. It's not lightning in a bottle. It has so many different moving parts. So if you don't love it and if you're not guided by your why. I think you're in trouble. I don't think it will work. Kyndra: [00:33:46] And you know I think it's important to have realistic expectations and it's very much one of those if you build it they will come. But there's a lot of building before they come in. I've cried so many times. I lost sleep in the beginning when I was just really taking a vote of confidence in myself, when I just said I can do this and I'm going to do this. Kyndra: [00:34:06] There was a time when we were trapped in payday loan cycles and I just kept plugging away, like I just refused to stop. And then here I am now with you. We were like saying oh my gosh, how are we going to pay the rent this month. OK well they won't shut off the electric. We can float that for 45 days. And I just can't get it. I just know I relentlessly. I never stopped. I love that. Jillian: [00:34:32] Tell me, Kyndra, how can people reach out? First of all tell me how can people find out more about your web site, your products, where they can find you on social media so that people can say hello and see what you're all about. Kyndra: [00:34:50] The simplest, easiest way is just going to be typing in Peace, Love, and Low Carb into Google, or even just my name. So I have a lot of points of contact but that first search, every result is going to be me. So will you spell your name because it's an unusual spelling. It is. I said mom everybody's going to spell it and pronounce it wrong my whole life. So it's Kyndra with a y. And then my last name is different as well. And that is H O L L E Y. Jillian: [00:35:27] Then what about your Facebook groups or if people are wanting to explore low carb, what would you say? Kyndra:[00:35:37] I'm Peace, Love, and Low Carb across all channels. So if you type in low carb into Facebook, you'll find me. Also on Instagram on Pinterest on Twitter and on YouTube. Jillian: [00:35:52] Oh I have to say thank you so much. I have learned so much from you. Kyndra: [00:35:57] Well thank you for having me.
Daisy Luther is a blogger and the website owner of The Organic Prepper. Daisy has used different strategies to grow her online blog to where it makes a nice income for herself each month. During her first year of being in business, she was able to make around $1,000 a month. How did she do it? Find out on this week’s episode! Key Takeaways: [1:10] Who is Daisy and what does she do? [2:45] When you find yourself broke, what kinds of things can you do to survive? [5:35] How many hours a week does Daisy work on her business? [6:25] How did Daisy first start her business? [10:05] Consistency is so important and it is what makes you money. You have to be very consistent when it comes to building traffic for your website. [10:25] Daisy writes between 5-6 days a week. [11:45] After being in business for a year, Daisy was able to make $1,000 a month on her blog. It was challenging. [12:55] Daisy wrote a book after her first year of being business compiling her best blog posts into one place. She was able to generate between $500-600 a month from it. [13:10] Since then, Daisy has written a total of 3 books and it has provided her with a steady source of additional income. [13:45] Don’t turn your nose up at Amazon affiliates, Daisy says. They only pay 4%, but the money can add up. [14:10] With that being said, you don’t want to rely too heavily on one source of income. You have to be well-diversified. [14:35] Daisy is a part of an ad network called AdThrive and it generates about 40% of Daisy’s income. [16:45] How does Daisy use social media to grow her business? [18:50] Why has Pinterest been good to Daisy? [19:55] What does Daisy’s business look like today? [23:10] What are Daisy’s three books about? [25:10] If AdThrive died tomorrow, Daisy would still be able to make a living because she has diversified into other areas. [25:45] Before Amazon changed their policies, Daisy was making around $7,000 a month. [26:45] What are Daisy’s top three tips for growing a business? Mentioned in This Episode: Businessforsuperheroes.com Businessforsuperheroes.com/inner-circle Businessforsuperheroes.com/borrow-my-brain The Organic Prepper AdThrive Tailwind App
What you will learn How to make your ads more visible How Ad Thrive can make managing ads much easier How to balance ads so that they do not ruin the user experience How to get started with sponsored posts How much you can charge for sponsored posts Who buys sponsored posts and why This … #84 – Using AdThrive to Maximise Ad Revenue (+ Bonus Content on Sponsored Posts) Read More »
What you will learn How to make your ads more visible How Ad Thrive can make managing ads much easier How to balance ads so that they do not ruin the user experience How to get started with sponsored posts How much you can charge for sponsored posts Who buys sponsored posts and why This … #84 – Using AdThrive to Maximise Ad Revenue (+ Bonus Content on Sponsored Posts) Read More »
Boss Girl Creative Podcast | A Podcast for Female Creative Entrepreneurs
Want to know how to make money as a blogger? Take a listen to this episode and learn the various ways you can make money as a blogger. BGC ANNOUNCEMENTS * Welcome to the 118th episode of the Boss Girl Creative Podcast!! Today I'm chatting about all the different ways you can make money as a blogger!! How many different ways are you making money as a blogger? * Have comments or questions? Tweet/IG using the hashtag #BOSSGIRLQA or call in: (707) BOSS-GIRL * Support Boss Girl Creative endeavors by joining the BGC Crew! * Join me in the Facebook Group on Wednesday nights at 9pm CST for a live Q&A answer session!! Send me your questions through email, phone or #BOSSGIRLQA on Twitter/Instagram * Want a direct link to the podcast feed? Click here. * Use these Hashtags on Social Media: #bossgirlcreative #bossgirlchat INSIDE THIS EPISODE * Affilate Marketing * Advertising * Events * Services * Products * Memberships & Content Paywalls (think content upgrades) * Donations * Selling Websites RESOURCES MENTIONED **Some links below contain affiliate links. Purchasing through them, at no further cost to you, help support Boss Girl Creative. Thank you for supporting the brands that support BGC!** * ANNOUNCEMENT!!!! Nitty Gritty Interview #5 is...Janssen from Everyday Reading * Brand new eCourse!!! Unlocking Your SEO Potential * Shout out to community members: Kate Larking * Patreon * Shout out to Vilma Gonzalez: VilmaIris.com (Episode 113) * Affiliate Networks: AWIN.com (Etsy is an affiliate); Shareasale.com; CJ.com (use referral code: 4330813; RewardStyle * Ad Networks: Google Adsense; AdThrive; MediaVine; Monumetric * Shout-out to Petit Jean Meats * Shout-out to Jennifer: BusyBeingJennifer.com * Shout-out to Jeanetta: JeanettaDarley.com FIND TAYLOR ONLINE Blog - taylorbradford.com Instagram - @taybradfordblog Facebook - taybradfordblog Pinterest - taybradfordblog Twitter - @taybradfordblog HELP SPREAD THE BOSS GIRL LOVE! It would be amazeballs if you shared Boss Girl Creative Podcast with your fellow Boss Girls on twitter. Click here to tweet some love! If you love this podcast, head on over to iTunes and kindly leave a rating, a review and subscribe! WAYS TO SUBSCRIBE TO THE BOSS GIRL CREATIVE PODCAST Click here to subscribe via iTunes Click here to subscribe via Boss Girl Creative Newsletter Click here to subscribe via Stitcher FEEDBACK + PROMOTION You can ask your questions and leave your comments by either calling (707) BOSS-GIRL, emailing hello@bossgirlcreative.com or go to the Boss Girl Creative Facebook group!
Our listeners' favorite FBP podcast episodes, what they've learned, how how they've applied what they've learned to their blogs ----- Welcome to episode 100 of the Food Blogger Pro podcast! This week, we’re celebrating our 100th episode with a special community episode! How FBP Listeners Have Used the Podcast to Grow their Blogs and Businesses There have been 99 Food Blogger Pro Podcast episodes before this one, and we’ve heard from a lot of amazing people. From full-time bloggers to SEO experts to social media pros, this podcast has seen no shortage of inspirational interviewees! We’re really excited about this episode because we’re hearing from you. We asked our listeners what their favorite Food Blogger Pro Podcast episode was, and we’re so excited about the response. It’s so exciting to hear which episodes came to you at a specific point in your blogging career and how the podcast helped you overcome obstacles, become more confident, and grow your business. We hope that this episode will help you find an episode you might have missed or remind you of an episode that you’d like to go back and listen to again. Thanks so much for a great 100 episodes! These are our listeners’ favorite Food Blogger Pro Podcast episodes: 038: 7 Strategies to Build Traffic 035: How to 10x Your Facebook Following in One Year with Stephanie from Spaceships & Laser Beams 097: How to Create a Full-Time Income from Blogging Using The Egg Carton Method with Bjork Ostrom 013: An interview with Molly Yeh, the author behind Saveur’s 2015 Blog of the Year 083: The 1% Infinity Improvement Plan with Marly McMillen from the Chopped Podcast 094: How to Keep Going with Bjork Ostrom 019: How to Master Pinterest for your Food Blog with Susan Wenner Jackson from Ahalogy 001: Lindsay Ostrom from Pinch of Yum on Life as a Career Blogger 089: How to Build a Plane with Alexa, Jasmine & Raquel from Food Blogger Pro 058: 5 Tips for Overcoming the Resistance 024: How to Find Balance in Blogging with Ali Ebright from Gimme Some Oven 039: 12 Ways to Overcome Online Jealousy with Lindsay Ostrom from Pinch of Yum 093: How Finding a Niche Transformed a Business with Meggan Hill from Culinary Hill 040: How to Monetize a Podcast from Day 1 with Allison & Suzy from the Food Heals Podcast 055: Generating Income through Self-Publishing a Cookbook with Jason Logsdon 028: How to Boost Your Blog’s SEO with Casey Markee from Media Wyse 065: Michelle Tam from Nom Nom Paleo on Building a Brand, Launching an App and Publishing a Cookbook 092: How to Make $40K in the First Year of Blogging with Chelsea Lords from Chelsea’s Messy Apron 052: How to Sell 4,000 Cookbooks Before You Even Publish with Megan Gilmore from Detoxinista 032: Buying & Selling Websites with Mark Daoust from Quiet Light Brokerage 008: Simplifying Ad Optimization with Andy Marzka from AdThrive 073: How to Publish Consistent and Quality Content with Jessica Merchant from How Sweet It Is 090: How a Legislative Assistant Created Her Own Path to Working for Herself with Brita Britnell 084: New Year’s Motivation: 1% Infinity Resources: The Anthony Kitchen Balanced Bites Tiny Kitchen, Big Food Brown Sugar & Vanilla The Spiced Kitchen A Day in the Kitchen Seasoned Vegetable Will Write for Food Blogtastic Food Dash of Wisdom Roots and Radishes Hostess at Heart Stress Baking Veggies Don’t Bite The Mighty Mrs. The Food Charlatan The 365 Days Podcast Johlene Orton The Bewitchin Kitchen Wander Spice The Little Plantation Craft Industry Alliance Little Bits of Real Food 40 Aprons Champagne and Paper Planes Isabel Eats Rhian’s Recipes Homegrown Provisions Real Simple Good Beneficial Bento The Mediterranean Dish If you have any comments, questions, or suggestions for interviews, be sure to email them to podcast@foodbloggerpro.com. Be sure to review us on iTunes!
I've been blogging since 2011 at this point. Every single day, every single week, and every single month I learn something new. I figure out a new way to cook, a new tool online, I learn how to shoot and edit video, or how to take better photos, I learn a new way to make money and help my family thrive. I'm constantly learning and that's exactly why I love my job so much. I make my own rules, I make my own destiny, and I decide what is best for me, my blog, and what I put out into the world. I wake up every day excited to take on the day because I know that the harder I work, the more benefits I will reap (most of the time). I became a full-time blogger, I believe, around 2013. I don't remember the exact day or even month, but I do remember thinking - "Ok Juli, you're finally making more money at blogging than you are at coaching full time, so maybe it's time to do this every day and see what is possible and how much you can grow." I forgot to mention in this podcast that it was when I was making more money blogging than coaching that I decided to make the full jump to just blogging. I think people have a hard time figuring out when they should make the jump, so that's what worked best for me - knowing for sure I would be making more money blogging than my other job. Here's a super quick run down of today's podcast! Every podcast I've been totally rushing trying to keep it under a certain time cap, but I recently just did something on the back end of my site so I don't have to rush anymore. So from now on, after this week, no more rushing! I'm hoping I didn't miss anything in this podcast, but here in a little run down of the main points! Starting My Blog: Started with a free template I found online and uploaded it to blogspot.com for free As it grew, I changed over to wordpress.com (that was a pain in the ass - I recommend starting on wordpress.com so you don't have to transfer anything over) Ways I get paid: Advertising – I use to work with google ads and other companies, but I continued to run into issues with how the ads were placed or where they led the customer. I now work with Adthrive who was recommended by Lexi and I love it. Affiliate programs – Affiliate just means that I promote certain products and if those products are purchased, I make a cut of that. Book bundles Ebook sales Amazon (This just became available for Colorado people!!) Real plans Random Other Affiliate Programs - Liketoknow.it, food related, etc. Sponsored posts and content A company will reach out to me about working together, I will tell them my fees and we will sometimes negotiate Books - I’ve come out with 3 cookbooks which I receive royalties on, but you just never know what you are going to make so it’s a bit of a crap shoot and it restricts you from your daily job of blogging which reduces traffic long term. But many publishers give advances to make up for that and help with that type of issue. OMG! That's Paleo? The Paleo Kitchen Juli Bauer's Paleo Cookbook Reader Questions: Affordable host to get your blog started on: Bluehost Get food photography inspiration from How Sweet It Is and Half Baked Harvest This book taught me the basics about setting up a food photography, it's a really good book! If you have any questions about becoming a full time blogger, please leave them in the comments below! I respond to comments on my blog much faster than emails, so please keep that in mind! And if you have podcast topics you would like to hear about, let me know! I also just got my podcast on Stitcher so feel free to listen to it here! And don't forget to rate, review and subscribe so I know what you guys are thinking!! Thanks so much for listening!! Episode 7 Transcription: This is Juli Bauer from PaleOMG and you are listening to PaleOMG Uncensored. Juli Bauer: Hey guys! It’s Juli here, from PaleOMG. I just walked my dog, and I; oh damn he found a bone.
Simplifying Ad Optimization with Andy Marzka from AdThrive For today's episode of the Food Blogger Pro podcast, Bjork talks with Andy Marzka, founder and CEO of ad optimization service AdThrive. Ad optimization is one of those things that totally clicks for some people and totally doesn't click for others. And even for the people it "clicks" for, it can be a confusing, befuddling, and frustrating process to get it all figured out. Fortunately, Andy Marzka agreed to help us understand it all a little better. Andy is the founder and CEO of AdThrive, an ad optimization service that helps you make the most money possible with your ads. In this eye-opening episode, Andy reveals: What DFP is and why AdThrive uses it How passbacks work and why they are important The number of ads you should have and how to place them How the ad industry is changing - and what it means for you Why ad impressions don't always add up to equal the number of pageviews What cookies are and how they work When you should start using ads as a new blogger When you should think about getting an ad manager His advice for making money in blogging The importance of mobile and what it means for your ads Resources: AdThrive.com Doubleclick for Publishers (DFP) Google Adsense
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