Podcasts about leading together

In this episode of the Just Schools Podcast, Jon Eckert interviews Dr. Ann Marie Taylor. The discussion covers various aspects of educational leadership and the unique approaches taken at Horse Creek Academy. Ann Marie emphasizes the importance of celebrating and honoring teachers to prevent the profession from declining and shares innovative practices at her school, such as on-site daycare and providing amenities like a coffee bar for staff. Additionally, the conversation explores the distinctions between joy and happiness, drawing on insights from books such as "The Book of Joy" by the Dalai Lama and Desmond Tutu, and "Dare to Lead" by Brené Brown.  The Just Schools Podcast is brought to you by the Baylor Center for School Leadership. Each week, we'll talk to catalytic educators who are doing amazing work. Be encouraged. Books Mentioned: The Book of Joy: Lasting Happiness in a Changing World by Dalai Lama , Desmond Tutu, and Douglas Carlton Abrams Dare to Lead by Brene Brown Connect with us: Baylor MA in School Leadership Jon Eckert LinkedIn Twitter: @eckertjon Center for School Leadership at Baylor University: @baylorcsl   Transcript: Jon Eckert: Today we're here with Dr. Anne Marie Taylor. She is the lead learner, love that title, at Horse Creek Academy in South Carolina. I love the work that she does and the fact that she teaches a criminology course on top of being what most people would call a principal. So Ann Marie, thanks for being with us today, and thanks for what you do at Horse Creek. Ann Marie Taylor: Yeah, it's the best gig ever. Jon Eckert: Yes, I love that. I love the energy you bring. We got to be together just a couple of weeks ago as we talked to the Collective Leadership Initiative in South Carolina. We've been working on that for eight years. You've been a part of it with your school for five years. Talk to us a little bit about how your school approaches collective leadership and how it's part of what you talk about nicely, about the norms, that you have created at Horse Creek Academy. Could you talk a little bit about that? Ann Marie Taylor: Yeah. First of all, I was fangirling a little bit when we saw each other a couple of weeks ago, so I just need to admit that just in case anyone's listening. But ... Jon Eckert: That's the first time that's ever happened, Ann Marie. Ann Marie Taylor: No, it's not. Okay, it's the nerd version. It's the nerd version of fangirl Jon Eckert: Okay. I'll accept nerd version Ann Marie Taylor: Okay, so I had never been a school leader previous to coming to Horse Creek Academy. I guess no one else interviewed that had any experience at all, so they picked me, which was a win. But the school had some amazing people and had so much potential. I remember walking in excited to see what I could do, but mostly realizing that in my previous leadership experience when I left, the work stopped and I was so ... Gosh, I was stuck by that a little bit. I was determined to not go into this new phase of leadership in my career with that same mindset. We dove right in. It's a charter school. It's been in existence 20 years in South Carolina. I went back to the original charter and the staff and I picked out a couple words that really stuck in the 10, 15 years that had been in existence that really stuck and those three words kind of guided us. But what I knew is it was such a big job, I couldn't do it by myself. I also knew that I had spent 16, 17 years in the profession at that point and felt like I never really fit in a traditional system. I was always too big or moving too fast or making too much change, and kind of was put in the corner. I think about that Dirty Dancing movie about Baby in the corner. But anyway- Jon Eckert: You let baby be put in the corner. Ann Marie, no. Ann Marie Taylor: Yes, so I was determined to think through how to do leadership different. Number one, selfishly, because I knew that there was a lot to offer and there was a lot of change ahead, and I knew it was going to be a ton of work. But mostly because I knew that the only thing I knew how to do maybe was build a team. I used that to my advantage and really found the best people around me that could help. We had visited a school in South Carolina that was a part of this initiative already, and I fell in love with the idea that anyone could lead, and how I desperately wanted that as a teacher and I never could get it. We started by diving into norms and expectations and saying something that I've repeated millions of times, "Hey, I can almost guarantee I'll disappoint you, but I'll disappoint you a lot less if we set up norms and expectations." When I talk about norms and expectations, I think about when I was a classroom teacher, most of my years have been in special education, and most of those years were in self-contained classrooms. I remember because of students with behavior disorders that I would work with, that they needed ownership and they wanted to say. If I could give them a choice, even if it was a forced choice, they would typically take me up on my offer. What I realized is adults are the same way, right? They just want to be heard. I wanted a voice and I wanted a choice, and so I bet other people felt that way too. To begin with, I used the same strategies I used with my students with behavior disorders, and honestly, that's where I started, norms and expectations and voice and choice. It's a crazy way to start, but it worked perfectly. Jon Eckert: Well, it's not crazy. Ann Marie Taylor: Yeah. Jon Eckert: You went in knowing that you couldn't do it on your own and that you came from a position where you had wanted to have more leadership and not just voice or buy-in, but you wanted ownership. Ann Marie Taylor: Right. Jon Eckert: You stepped in and said, "Hey, that's what we're going to give." And what I love is use DC and Ryan's work that Daniel Pink popularized in Drive where you said, "Hey, people want choices." Ann Marie Taylor: Yeah. Jon Eckert: With increased competence comes the desire for more autonomy, but it has to be autonomy within the parameters of, "What's the mission of the school?" You mentioned there were three words that you chose at the school. What were those three words? I didn't hear you say them, did I? Did you share them? Ann Marie Taylor: Yeah. Yeah, so the three words that we kind of navigated through and found in the original charter were flexibility, service, and connection. We actually voted on those words as a new staff, and we voted then to create norms and expectations for each other. I can't remember all five my first year, but I remember one was see a need, fill a need. Our norms we've created now five years in a row, and we have staff norms that we work on together on our first day back to school where we vote, make tallies. We do a whole lesson on norms and expectations. Then the expectation is that in every meeting, in every sit-down, in every coffee bar chat, we're going to talk about norms and expectations, including with our parents, with our students. It's become just, well, for a better word, a norm in our system where we just always start with expectations. I think that really started us and grounded us, maybe focusing on the work. Flexibility, service, connection, every decision we make runs through those three words, and obviously that goes so well with the work of collective leadership. It was a win for sure. Jon Eckert: Well, what I love there, you just described Bill Coon, who is principal at Meadow Glen, I don't know if- Ann Marie Taylor: Oh my God, by the way, I'm a fangirl for Dr. Coon as well. Jon Eckert: Yes. He talks about the three buckets, and if it doesn't fit in those three buckets, they don't do it. We need more of those three bucket principles. Ann Marie Taylor: Yeah. Jon Eckert: Flexibility, service, connection. I also love that you saw that you had the see a need, fill a need because that follows that tenet of collective leadership, that leadership's not about the position or the person, it's about the work. Ann Marie Taylor: Right. Jon Eckert: If you see that need and you fill that need and you do that with others, and others are following you and you're walking alongside, then you're leading. Ann Marie Taylor: Right, right. Jon Eckert: Why are we hung up on who's the official leader, who's not? See a need, fill a need. That's what leaders do, and that changes the culture of the school or builds the culture, in your case, because you all were starting from that place. Ann Marie Taylor: Yeah. Jon Eckert: That creates a very different dynamic where people aren't sitting around waiting for you as the lead learner to be telling them how they should be learning and what they should be leading. It's "We're doing this together." I think that's pretty powerful. Ann Marie Taylor: Well, and what's ironic about it is now they don't need me really. Sometimes I walk around and think, "God, the school board could fire me today and these guys would be just fine." But I guess that's what I've been trying to build, so I'm thankful that they don't necessarily need me in the same ways. Because their coaching skills have gotten so good over the years, I find myself a lot of times trying to copy them because they're just smarter than me now. I'm so thankful for that part. Jon Eckert: What you described, in my mind, is the ideal leader in a learning organization. Ann Marie Taylor: Yeah. Jon Eckert: You want them to not be dependent on you. You want to add value, but you want to have created these networks and webs that function regardless if you're there or not. Today you're home with a kid who needs you, and I'm sure Horse Creek Academy ran smoothly. Ann Marie Taylor: Yeah. Jon Eckert: That's powerful. Ann Marie Taylor: That's really a huge win. Honestly, that's what I'd worked towards because I knew what that looked like. The other thing I think that's interesting is that we've kind of taken the work of CLI to a level that maybe even others haven't yet. Let me give you an example. We have three paraprofessionals on our leadership team that make just as many decisions as I do every day. These are people that don't necessarily have advanced degrees, but immediately when we got to know them, saw intense leadership capacity. It was like, "Let me get out of your way and figure out how you can do this." It's been so beautiful to watch folks that had always been, for example, a traditional teaching assistant in a special ed classroom, and would never move out of that pay grade or leadership level, to take on positions that are critical to the organization. Because of that, I can take a back burner with a lot of different things and spend an hour and a half of my day teaching students and reminding myself how hard it is and how intense it is and how important the relationship is. When I have conversations with teachers, I can say, "Yeah, I totally get it," because I have 47 of them and they're pretty tough and most days I don't win. Some days I think I'm winning an Emmy and they're looking at me like they're not interested. That has been critical. It's not like I come into sub, it's like I have a credit-bearing course every single day that I show up to. What's even more ironic is that I teach it in an open area in our commons, so I get traffic throughout. I didn't cap the class. Most of our classes are 19 or less and I have 47, so I have to be on because I'm in front of everyone and they are watching me. It forces me to be a better version of myself as a teacher. I learned that through the South Carolina Teacher of the Year program back in the day when people watched what we were doing, I innately got better. As a special ed teacher with no one ever watching you, you can really take a downward spiral in a lot of different ways. But because everybody was watching me because I was Teacher of the Year, I had to be on, and yeah, magically, it really made me a great teacher. That's how I feel now. Even when I want to be down and not really engaged and don't want to give it my all, I have to. That was on purpose too, so that's another strategy, but ... Jon Eckert: Yes. Well, the wisdom that comes, and I appreciate the humility in your description of why you do what you do, but having been Teacher of the Year and having had that recognition, clearly you know how to engage students and the best leaders that I know either really miss the classroom or they never leave it. Ann Marie Taylor: Right. Jon Eckert: You haven't left it and that's one of my favorite stories I've ever heard. 90 minutes a day in an open area with 47 students. Ann Marie Taylor: Yeah, 9th through 12th, by the way. Jon Eckert: Yeah. That's going to challenge any educator and to put yourself out there for others to see it, it not only allows you to remember what it is to be in the classroom, it builds so much credibility that, "Our leader or one of our leaders is doing this work alongside of us and in a way that anybody can see it." I think that goes a long way to building culture. One of the things you mentioned before we jumped on about is your idea about moving too fast. Sometimes you feel like maybe you move too fast, but then you question, well, maybe that's just part of the kind of innovating and iterating that you're doing. What do you mean you might've moved too fast? Ann Marie Taylor: Well, I think the first few years of this work, we lost some people along the way. They had to jump off because we were moving too fast. They had to take a break because change was happening too frequently or they just weren't a fit. I think there was this, as an educator, we have this weird guilt and shame over almost every decision we make. I don't know if that's typical, but for me it was like, "God, people are leaving. I'm not the favorite. This isn't the best." Those kinds of things. We had significant growth. To give you perspective, we had like 467 students when I got there, and this year we're at 1400. Jon Eckert: Wow. Ann Marie Taylor: We had insane growth, right overshadowing what happened with COVID or happening at the same time. I was building buildings, adding a high school, adding a career center. It was like drinking from the water hose, just 90 miles an hour. We lost people along the way and so I had some guilt and shame about moving too fast. But then I look back and think, "My God, if I wasn't risk-taking or being innovative or forcing people to move, number one, people might've stayed that shouldn't have." That's a harsh, honest reality. And it was clear where we were going, and sometimes we had to paddle and hold our heads just right above water because it wasn't perfect the whole way because we were making so much change and growing so fast. For six months I had all of our high school and middle schoolers, when our building wasn't finished, at a church in a sanctuary and in a common space where we were all teaching. I thought, "This is crazy. I don't know why we've moved this fast. We're six months and we don't have our building, blah, blah, blah." But it built so much culture and climate collectiveness, and we were weaved in a way that we hadn't been before. That's really a lot of where we got to know each other, in that sanctuary and in that main space. Even though you look along the way and think, "Wow, it's been a wild ride," you can look back and think, "Well, that's what innovation looks like a little bit." If you want to be a risk-taker and be innovative, sometimes you have to feel like you're drowning just for a little bit. Good news is it wasn't just me. I had a team of 30 people on a leadership team. At least we could hold each other while we were drowning instead of me being by myself, and so really don't know if we'd survive without collective leadership. Jon Eckert: Well, and I think that's right. I have one phrase in the Leading Together book, "It's not that many hands make light work, it's many hands make the work possible." Ann Marie Taylor: Yeah. Jon Eckert: When you're going that fast, you can't go that fast on your own. You're going to lose some people on the way and while you're losing people, which is sad to lose people, maybe they were not the right people to be on the bus, as Jim Collins talks about in Good to Great. It may be that fast-moving, we have a lot of kids who need what we're providing and we're providing it in these awkward spaces, but we're going to do it, that makes you really appreciative when you get into a space that's not everybody in a sanctuary or in the- Ann Marie Taylor: Oh, gosh. Jon Eckert: ... common space. I think that builds culture. You don't do it in order to build culture, but because of the work you did that created a very different dynamic for the people that were there at Horse Creek, that then feeds the people who come in because you know what you're coming into. This isn't a place to just sit back and relax. Ann Marie Taylor: Well, what's funny is now when I interview people, I've gotten to be blatantly honest. "Here's what it looks like." I'm like, "Hey, you'll probably never have a title that you're looking for and you might not even have an office. I know for sure we'll give you a desk and chair to sit somewhere at some point, but that's kind of how we roll." We have to be super-flexible because of the growth and so a lot of us don't have classrooms and share spaces and all those kinds of things. But I wouldn't have it any other way because when you walk in, there's an energy and a beauty and almost like it feels like a miracle to me just because I've been in so many schools and so many classrooms, and I know that it feels that way to other people because they tell me. I forget along the way until I visit somewhere else and come back. But it is very ... There's lots of movement, there's lots of energy, there's lots of relationship. Most nights I go to bed and pray that this will last just a little longer because I know it's not typical. Then the other side of me is like, "Oh my gosh, we have to announce this to the world because we are single-handedly going to save the profession. " Jon Eckert: Love that. Go with that to latter impulse there. I do think we need to trumpet these things because there are places like Horse Creek around that are doing these things, and the world has a great need for it. I think I mentioned this when I was with you all. I was at a UNESCO conference where I was speaking and it was trying to address the fact that there are 250 million school age kids who do not have a school to go to. A place like Horse Creek is truly a blessing and so you need to lean into that and love the fact that that's what you've built. I think what I'd like to move to now is just our lightning round to see how well you can do this. Ann Marie Taylor: Uh-oh. Jon Eckert: Word, sentence, or phrase, we'll go with four or five questions here. Ann Marie Taylor: Okay. Jon Eckert: First one, what is the worst piece of advice you've either given or received? Ann Marie Taylor: Worst piece of advice I was ever given is, "Start the year in August like you hate them and then discipline will be in check by December." Jon Eckert: Yeah, no. Yeah. Ann Marie Taylor: That's not me. If I'm going to do the opposite of what they tell me, I'm going to make sure I'm good at it. The opposite of that, of course, would be, "Man, build relationships from the moment you get them so that they will eat from your hands," so to speak. That was definitely the worst advice I've ever been given. But man, old, veteran teachers always want to tell you that when you first start. Jon Eckert: I know. 80% of the people that come on our podcast, that's the piece of advice that they're given that's bad and it's so sad. I love in your bio that you have is the "Lead learner, Horse Creek Academy. Ann Marie is a hot mess, in a fabulous way of course." That's welcoming because we're all kind of a hot mess when we're honest and that welcomes people in and makes them feel that. What's the best piece of advice you've either given or received? Ann Marie Taylor: My very first year going to get, so I have an undergraduate in criminal justice, and I have a master's in arts of teaching students with learning disabilities. I'm getting this master's degree. I've been to Catholic school my whole life, never been in a public school before. They don't have a classroom with kids with learning disabilities, but they have this little classroom in Florence, South Carolina with kids with severe and profound disabilities that I was going to do my student teaching in. I walked in to ... I can pick on her because she knows I pick on her, but she would wear, Kathy, my mentor, long dresses, angry special ed teacher, been doing this forever, doesn't really make eye contact. I was scared to death. It's the advice I've lived with, she said, "My job as your teacher is to make you better than I was ever as a teacher." I think about Kathy all the time and think about the people I work with and just making them better. That was advice that I think, God, has been used in every facet of my life. Jon Eckert: I love that. That's a beautiful image for a teacher. Ann Marie Taylor: Yeah, she's amazing. Jon Eckert: Yeah. What's one of your favorite books you've read in the last year? It could be education-related, it could be anything. Ann Marie Taylor: Oh, probably either a book called Joy. Jon Eckert: Mm. Ann Marie Taylor: It was the Dalai Lama, and I'm not remembering the other author, so forgive me, but I was doing some research because second semester I teach Psychology of Happiness. I was doing some research on joy, and that was pretty powerful. But a book that I just reread that is my all-time favorite book ever, at least right now, is Dare to Lead by Brene Brown. Jon Eckert: Oh, yeah. It's hard to beat that. Ann Marie Taylor: Yeah, those two have been important. I've been reading a lot on happiness because here I am, I'm going to teach this class, and I really don't know anything other than what I heard on a happiness podcast by Dr. Laurie Santos. I had to read a whole bunch of happiness books to try to get my material together. Jon Eckert: Yes. Well, that's great. I always differentiate joy and happiness, that happiness is circumstantial, but joy is something that can be deep and profound and abiding. Yes, the Dalai Lama and Desmond Tutu. Ann Marie Taylor: Yes, there you go. Jon Eckert: They wrote the Book of Joy. Yeah, it has to be fascinating to get that take. The next thing, I guess two last questions. What's the biggest challenge you see ahead for educators? We've been in CLI, you've been in for five years, I've been studying you for eight years. I see your data every year because the one who writes it up and reports on it. There's a lot of great things going on at Horse Creek, but what do you see as the biggest challenge facing educators right now? Ann Marie Taylor: If we don't figure out a way to celebrate and honor our teachers, I have a fear that the profession is going to dwindle down to a room or a school full of substitutes. I feel so lucky that I have no positions for next year. I feel so lucky that we've already hired and done all that, but the only reason we're in that position is because we do things different. We have onsite daycare for our staff, babies and toddlers, which is such a huge win. No faculty meetings, podcasting. I spend $4,000 a month on our coffee bar to make sure that we have creamer and coffee and snacks at every building. Full-length pictures. I could go on and on with the little things, but I feel like if people don't do something drastically different, we are not going to be winning and I just think that there are way too many great educators out there to not be winning at this. I don't mean winning just with test scores. Jon Eckert: No. Ann Marie Taylor: Test scores are important and we have been making gains, but to say that I'm not an excellent school, it's funny to me. Yeah, our report card's not excellent yet in South Carolina, and it will be at some point. But for me, if we don't as school leaders and school leadership teams and even districts start measuring other things, I think we're going to lose what we have. I think there's more to measure. I love to talk about our efficacy data. I love to talk about our student retention and our teacher retention rates. I love to talk about case studies and scenarios of kids and teachers and relationships and how things are different. I think there's so much more than the state-driven report card, and I think it's time to start talking about it because I don't think we're going to be around if we don't. Jon Eckert: Well, yeah, and your efficacy data is off the charts, and we know that's the single biggest factor John Hattie's team found for impacting those student learning outcomes, so totally agree. I definitely feel that challenge as well. I think that's real. But what's your greatest hope right now for education as you look at it through the lens of Horse Creek and your experience as South Carolina Teacher of the Year, all the different hats you've worn? What gives you the most hope? Ann Marie Taylor: The relationships that we have with our students and that they have with one another. I can think about our graduating class this year or our 400 high school students, and I think about their ability to work together and be creative and be innovative. There's great hope in that, that there's going to be a handful of people that really do expect voice and choice, and they're not going to stand for it otherwise. In my generation, teachers will stand for a whole lot that they shouldn't. We accept lack of autonomy, and we accept moving in a snail's pace sometimes and these kids won't. For that, amen. I feel like there could be some real innovation and change because they're not going to stand for it. They have boundaries set and good for them because I never did that. Jon Eckert: Yes. Love that, that's a great place to wrap up. I love that we focus on relationships and kids, and there's a lot of great stuff going on. We just need to highlight that and get off our negativity bias. Ann Marie Taylor: Yeah. Jon Eckert: Dr. Ann Marie Taylor, thank you for being with us today. Thanks for all you do. Ann Marie Taylor: Well, just lean in to the fact that you're a nerd fangirl situation here, and I'm so thankful for people that spend their time doing research to help us navigate what this looks like and to navigate it well, because your research and what you've done matters. I just am so thankful and I know everybody at Horse Creek is thankful as well. Jon Eckert: Oh, well, hey, thank you. It's great to highlight your work.

This episode begins with news! Layla and Rob's podcast thread is changing, from a solitary focus on how mixed-gender ministry partnerships work in the field to a wider discussion about how egalitarians can practically engage not just interpersonal dynamics, but systems, theology, culture, and more. And the best guests to talk about this shift? Layla and Rob! Join the hosts as they answer listener-generated questions about podcasting as a medium, what they've learned along the way, their own history as partners, and what their hopes are for the church going forward.     00:00 Welcome to Mutuality Matters: Embracing Egalitarian Convictions  00:46 Shifting Focus: Broadening the Conversation Beyond Ministry Partnerships  01:56 Celebrating Our Journey: A Self-Interview on Mixed Gender Partnerships  05:24 Listener Q&A: Insights and Anecdotes from Behind the Scenes  09:06 Challenges and Opportunities: Learning from Our Podcasting Experience  20:51 Reflecting on Partnership: Our Personal Journey and Future Hopes  28:46 Gratitude and Goodbyes: Wrapping Up the Podcast Thread    Bios:    Layla Van Gerpen has served with InterVarsity Christian Fellowship for over twenty years in California and Nevada. She also serves on the preaching team at her church, Midtown Vineyard. She is passionate about developing leaders, especially around areas of race and gender. As a Lebanese/Japanese daughter of immigrants, Layla grew up with a deep love for hospitality, cross-cultural relationships, and advocacy work. Together with her husband, Daniel, they find joy raising their two boys, Everett and Grant.    Rob Dixon lives in central California with his wife Amy and their four children, and works as a campus minister with InterVarsity Christian Fellowship. He earned a Doctor of Intercultural Studies degree at Fuller Theological Seminary, where he focused on discerning the attributes of flourishing mixed-gender ministry partnerships. Rob is the author of Together in Ministry: Women and Men in Flourishing Partnerships. In his free time, Rob roots for the Dodgers, teaches at Fresno Pacific University, and plays as much pickleball as possible. Find him online at drrobdixon.com.    Related Resources:    Women and Men Leading Together: The Value of Shared Partnerships from a Gen. Z Perspective with Tim Bushra    Women and Men Leading Together: “Call Her What She Is” with Maddie Cummings and Brooke Pland    Women and Men Leading Together: The Journey to Mutuality with Kim and Andrew Feil      Disclaimer:  The opinions expressed in CBE's Mutuality Matters' podcast are those of its hosts or guests and do not purport to reflect the opinions or views of CBE International or its members or chapters worldwide. The designations employed in this podcast and the presentation of content therein do not imply the expression of any opinion whatsoever on the part of CBE concerning the legal status of any country, area or territory or of its authorities, or concerning the delimitation of its frontiers. 

In this episode, we have an honest conversation about the strengths and challenges of shared leadership.

Serving and leading together as a married couple in our family lives and in ministry is a gift, and an area that requires ongoing intentionality. Listen in as we share 3 tips for growing in "laboring side by side for the faith of the gospel:" prioritizing the marriage relationship, valuing one another's gifts, and regularly communicating about our work and leadership. 

Pastor Scott Sinner might have “stumbled onto” the idea of mixed-gender ministry partnership, but now he and his colleagues at Green Valley Community Church in Placerville, California, operate out of a place of deep conviction. In this episode, Pastor Sinner and Pastor Bekah Townsend tell Layla and Rob how they live out shared leadership with an emphasis on a clear vision, a foundation of trust, and a commitment to engage one another with vulnerability and grace. Come learn from Scott and Bekah as they tell us how they “pick up the weight together!”    Guest Bios:  Rebekah Townsend  Rebekah Townsend joined the pastor team at Green Valley Community Church in August of 2022. She preaches at weekend services and oversees their Next Gen. ministry. For the last twenty-three years, she served in a variety of ministry roles in many different places, but her passion has been the same. She is dedicated to helping people come to know Jesus. Bekah has been married to her husband Ryan for almost twenty years and they have three amazing kids. They enjoy traveling and going on adventures together as a family.  Scott Sinner  Actively leading and teaching in the church for over thirty-four years, Scott communicates God's word through an interactive fun, storytelling style. He is passionate about the local church and believes that when it works right, it can change the world. Scott has been married to his wife Kellie for over thirty-four years, they have two beautiful daughters, two great son-in-laws, and one magnificent grandbaby. When not recovering from some injury, Scott enjoys playing basketball and golf. Growing up in the Bay Area has made the Sinner family avid Raider fans — proof that God has a sense of humor.     Disclaimer:    The opinions expressed in CBE's Mutuality Matters' podcast are those of its hosts or guests do not purport to reflect the opinions or views of CBE International or its members or chapters worldwide. The designations employed in this podcast and the presentation of content therein do not imply the expression of any opinion whatsoever on the part of CBE concerning the legal status of any country, area or territory or of its authorities, or concerning the delimitation of its frontiers.     Other Resources:  Together in Ministry: Women and Men in Flourishing Partnerships  (Men & Women Leading Together) Creating Safe and Thriving Mixed-Gender Partnerships  Created to Thrive: Cultivating Abuse-Free Communities 

What role does power play in your organization and your team? Tania Luna joins Kevin to discuss rethinking power as capacity, not control, and using “power with” instead of “power over” others. She shares four “power with” principles: follow purpose over person, rely on context over control, cultivate talent over collecting it, and build community over crowds. Leaders need to shift their mindset and take action to create a more inclusive and empowering work environment. Listen for... 00:00 Introduction to Power in Leadership 00:44 Engagement with Audience 01:54 Introducing Tanya Luna 03:26 Tanya Luna's Background and Early Influences 06:20 Concepts of Power and Control 14:05 Power with vs. Power over 20:00 Implementing Power With Principles 27:33 Community Building and Leadership 31:43 Closing Remarks and Personal Interests of Tanya Luna Meet Tania Name: Tania Luna Story:  https://www.tanialuna.com/ https://www.instagram.com/laniatuna Book Recommendations Lead Together: Stop Squirreling Away Power and Build a Better Team by Tania Luna  John Dies at the End (John Dies at the End, 1) by Jason Pargin  The Story of B (Ishmael Series) by Daniel Quinn  Related Episodes The Power of Vulnerability with Jeff Manchester Understanding Power with Deborah Gruenfeld Join Our Community If you want to view our live podcast episodes, hear about new releases, or chat with others who enjoy this podcast join one of our communities below. Join the Facebook Group Join the LinkedIn Group Leave a Review If you liked this conversation, we'd be thrilled if you'd let others know by leaving a review on Apple Podcasts. Here's a quick guide for posting a review. Review on Apple: https://remarkablepodcast.com/itunes  Podcast Better! Sign up with Libsyn and get up to 2 months free! Use promo code: RLP  

When you mix a CEO, horse trainer, nonproft fundraising specialist, and an equine assisted learning coach.  You get a Leadership Whisperer and a passionate team who really want to make leadership fun, fulfilling and life changing.  Jannine Jackson, from Leading Together is our guest speaker today. She was certified through the Equine Connection and she loves the learning and what horses teach us, but even more so, the incredible transformations that she has seen in people that she has worked with since being certified. Jannine also started a podcast around leadership and loves that working with horses is the quickest way she has seen to get an understanding of emotional intelligence.   Jannine's professional background in leading and managing nonprofits is enviable. She is a senior professional fundraiser with over 20 years of experience. One of an elite few Australians to win an International Fundraising Award for Excellence, she was the first Australian to win that award.  In addition, she has won numerous national awards for Fundraising Excellence and was also awarded the Young Fundraiser of the Year. Her accolades are plenty but what she is most proud of is changing lives and making a difference in the lives of thousands of Australians.   She has raised over $100 million dollars for nonprofit organisations enabling them to put incredible programs into action.  She has worked for both small boutique charities and large international organisations.  Always making a significant improvement to their bottom line and sustainability. Jannine really understands what it takes to create growth for people and organisations. She focused on sustainable growth, building financial capacity and resilience. She works on a philosophy of always leaving it better than you found it.   https://www.leadingtogether.net.au/ https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/leadershipwhisperer

Leading Together: The Power of Partner LeadershipIn this episode, we sit down with Joy Meserve, a highly experienced Business Consultant, Leadership Trainer, and Coach, to delve into the topic of partner leadership. Joy shares her insights and expertise on how leaders can effectively lead in a collaborative and partnership-oriented manner.We explore the importance of fostering a culture of trust, communication, and shared goals within partnerships. Joy provides practical strategies for building strong relationships with partners, navigating conflicts, and leveraging the unique strengths and perspectives of each individual involved.Whether you are a seasoned leader or aspiring to step into a leadership role, this episode offers valuable advice on how to cultivate effective partner leadership skills. Join us as we uncover the secrets to unlocking collaborative success and achieving remarkable outcomes through partnership.About Joy MeserveJoy Meserve is a Business Consultant, Leadership Trainer, and Coach. After two decades of executive experience in scaling operations and developing leaders, she founded Leading with Joy to help other executives develop leaders that foster high-performing and joyful workplace cultures where it's a win-win for companies and their employees. Together, she and her clients create more leaders and workplaces that focus on building trusting, authentic, collaborative, aligned, and accountable growth cultures, where people are intrinsically motivated and achieve financial success on behalf of the business. Meserve leverages her experience as the former COO of iD Tech, where she spent 22 years scaling operations from startup to international expansion to a $200M acquisition, delivering quality educational experiences to 50,000 students each year.Website: https://www.leadingwithjoy.comLinkedIn Profile: https://www.linkedin.com/in/joymeserve/About Hosts of PodcastPlease rate this episode on the platform you are listening to and feel free to provide your comments. If you found something intriguing on the podcast, you can email us at info@tcadvisorygroup.com. We would love to hear from our listeners!To find out more about TC Advisory Group, a leadership training and coaching company, go to www.tcadvisorygroup.com and follow us on social media. TC Advisory Group offers leadership training and coaching on an individual level, team or department level, and for an entire organization or business. We also are available for speaking engagements. Send us an email at info@TCAdvisoryGroup.com or book a Discovery Call today to learn more about the areas of support we can provide. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

This week's episode of Win The Hour, Win The Day Podcast is sponsored by Win The Hour, Win The Day's Signature Coaching Program the Winners Circle. Kris Ward who helps entrepreneurs to stop working so hard interviews, Maura Malinang. Dive into the world of effective leadership and business growth with Kris Ward and Virtual Assistant, Maura Malinang! In this episode, you'll discover:-How Maura transformed from a shy virtual assistant to a confident leader.-Kris Ward's unique approach to nurturing talent and leadership.-The power of speaking up and taking charge in your role.-The role of systems and processes in unlocking potential and productivity. Join us for a journey of growth, confidence, and business success.  Don't miss these valuable lessons for transforming your work life!  Power Personality Quiz! http://winbacktimequiz.com/Win The Hour, Win The Day! www.winthehourwintheday.com  Podcast: Win The Hour, Win The Day Podcast  Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/winthehourwintheday/LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/win-the-hour-win-the-day-podcast  Win The Hour Win The Day

Leading Together and Building Stronger, More Resilient Teams with Tania LunaIn this episode, we'll speak with Tania Luna regarding her latest book, LEAD TOGETHER: Stop Squirreling Away Power And Build A Better Team. About Tania Luna:Tania is a psychology researcher, writer, and educator. She has built and grown multiple companies, including LifeLabs Learning — a leadership development resource that serves thousands of the world's most influential companies – and Scarlet Spark — a nonprofit that accelerates the speed-to-mission of organizations that help animals. She is also the co-author of The Leader Lab: How to Become a Great Manager, Faster and Surprise: Embrace the Unpredictable & Engineer the Unexpected and the co-host of the podcast Talk Psych to Me. Her TED Talk on the power of perspective has over 1.8 million views. She lives with rescued pigs, goats, roosters, dogs, cats, and the love of her life.************************************************************************************Living and Leading with Emotional Intelligence is brought to you by Emotional Intelligence Magazine™. Emotional Intelligence Magazine is a one-stop resource for anyone looking to learn more about emotional intelligence. In addition to articles, videos, and recommended books to help you develop and expand your EI, Emotional Intelligence Magazine offers a platform for EI coaches and specialists so they can connect with individuals who are ready to take their life or business to the next level. To learn more, visit www.ei-magazine.com.-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------Learn more about your host:Brittney-Nichole Connor-SavardaBrittney-Nichole's book: The EQ DeficiencySupport the show

Jordan & Mindi Linscombe are both in studio for this value-packed episode of The Something New Show! In it, the Linscombes share golden principles that can help you achieve more of what you want in life and marriage while avoiding unnecessary heartache and stress. They cover topics like: How they collaborate & lead together as working parents.Tips for husbands whose wives are a strong leader--and how to support them! How they view marriage and responsibility (Hint: It's not 50/50!!!) How they use their strengths to add value their businesses and family.The power of scheduling far in advance and staying flexible, when needed. Managing expectations together when both spouses are high functioning people.The importance of creating margin and space for rest & recharging.  A critical decision making approach they use so they stay in unity.How that approach helps when things go great! How the approach helps you avoid blaming each other when things totally fail! Jordan & Mindi met in college and were married in 2005. They are the founders of Something New: Bridal & Formalwear--one of the country's largest bridal retail business. They produce The Something New Show. They facilitate business coaching for bridal shop owners. They also work with commercial real estate  short term rental properties. While they love leading businesses and living in Colorado, their deepest joy and work in this season is their four children and helping them thrive. Connect with Mindi: Instagram: @mindilinscombewww.mindilinscombe.comConnect with Jordan: Instagram: @jordanlinscombeLinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jordanlinscombe/Thanks for listening! Be sure to rate the show and leave a review with one key takeaway from this episode. And, be sure to subscribe to the show and tell a friend. Also, follow @thesomethingnewshow on Instagram and Facebook. If you want a fuller experience, like & subscribe to the show on Youtube! Cheers!

In this episode, Layla and Rob sit down with InterVarsity colleagues Brooke Pland and Maddie Cummings to get a sense of Gen. Z's perspective on women and men partnering together in ministry. These two women offer prophetic words to the church about representation, getting rid of gender-based leadership roles, and the importance of using the right job titles. If you have Gen. Z Christians in your life or faith community, this episode is a must-listen!     Bios  Maddie Cummings loves Jesus and joyfully serves in campus ministry with InterVarsity at CSU Channel Islands. She loves coffee and is a barista — her go-to is an oat milk cappuccino. She holds a degree in Global Studies and is always looking for ways to immerse herself and learn from other cultures. She would say she's a socially introverted, emotionally self-aware, and funny gal! She's quick-witted, blunt (maybe too often…), and a Swiftie. She hopes to make the world a better place by holding space for people to engage with Jesus in the hard things of the world!    Brooke Pland is a campus staff minister with InterVarsity Christian Fellowship/USA,  serving within the Greek InterVarsity branch. For the last several years, she has worked with the fraternity & sorority community at her alma mater, U.C. Santa Barbara, where  she studied communication, French, and journalism and from which she is an Alpha  Chi Omega alumna. She is passionate about empowering women in leadership in all  spheres of influence, especially in the church.     Other Reading  Pink Mirror: The ‘Barbie' Movie's Wry Reminders of Inequality 
 
Women and Men Leading Together: The Value of Shared Partnerships from a Gen. Z Perspective with Tim Bushra    How to Teach Mutuality to the Next Generation      Disclaimer   The opinions expressed in CBE's Mutuality Matters' podcast are those of its hosts or guests do not purport to reflect the opinions or views of CBE International or its members or chapters worldwide. The designations employed in this podcast and the presentation of content therein do not imply the expression of any opinion whatsoever on the part of CBE concerning the legal status of any country, area or territory or of its authorities, or concerning the delimitation of its frontiers.  

https://youtu.be/NByqJj007og

Description: How do we heal and transform society through conscious leadership?    Conscious leadership is a turning towards oneself and the questions of one's life.  A conscious leader asks what lines will I not cross ethically?  What really matters?  What is mine to guard and protect?  What is mine to heal and restore?  How can I be in service in society?   We can only become a conscious leader by developing the qualities on the inside that support conscious action on the outside.   In this podcast interview with my friend Mary Abijaay, you will learn the root cause of unconscious leadership, how to manage yourself in the face of unconscious leaders, how to manage up in the midst of difficulty, and what to pay attention to in yourself and others to determine how to achieve success with your boss at work.   Episode Links: Mary's Book Mary on LinkedIn From Triggered to Triumph- Team Experience with Carley How to Coach a Harmful and Unconscious Leader with Carley  Navigating Triggers Meditation with Carley Polyvagal Theory- How to Befriend Your Nervous System with Deb Dana  HBR Article- We need trauma informed Workplaces SHINE Links: Thank you for listening. Want to build a high trust, innovative, and inclusive culture at work? Sign up for our newsletter and get the free handout and be alerted to more inspiring Shine episodes  Building Trust Free Gift Carley Links: LinkedIn Consultation Call with Carley Book Carley for Speaking Leading from Wholeness Learning & Development Carley's Book Executive Coaching with Carley Well Being Resources: Inner Game Meditations Inner Game Leadership Assessment Social:  LinkedIn IG Website Shine Podcast Page IMPERFECT SHOW NOTES Carley Hauck  0:10   Hi, my name is Carley Hauck and I am host of the shine podcast. This podcast has been flickering strong since May 2019. I began the podcast due to all the research I was conducting in interviews with organizational leaders, lead scientists, academic researchers and spiritual teachers for my new book shine, ignite your inner game to lead consciously at work in the world. I wrote my book to inspire a new paradigm of conscious leadership and business that was in service of higher purpose to help humans flourish, and regenerate our planet. The podcast focuses on the science and application of conscious inclusive leadership, the recipe for high performing teams and awareness practices that you can cultivate to be the kind of leader our world needs now. I will be facilitating two to three episodes a month. And before I tell you about the theme of our season, please go over to Apple podcasts, hit the subscribe button on shine or go to your favorite podcast platform carrier. That way you don't miss one episode. Thank you. This season is going to be focused on what leadership skills are most needed to create a healthy organizational culture. Leadership and manager effectiveness has been deemed the number one priority for HR and 2023. And every person listening whether you have a formal leadership title or not, you are a leader. We all have the responsibility to lead around something that we care about whether it's at home with our family, and our communities and or in the workplace. And on to the podcast. Hello shine podcast listeners. Thank you so much for joining me in this wonderful conversation with my friend Mary Abby, Jay. And Mary. Just a quick intro for folks. I actually found you a couple years ago when I was listening to Sarah holds podcast advice to my younger me, but she just actually finished she finished the podcast I saw her like last post I think it was last week. But I found Sara because she wrote this fabulous book with the same name advice to my younger me and I frankly thought Why didn't I know this in my 30s? Why am I now just discovering this in my 40s Well, she hadn't read it. She hadn't written it yet. And as part of her research, she researched all these incredible women leaders and you were one of the very first interviews that she did and you just really resonated and So I kind of had been holding this idea to reach out and then I did and voila. And I'm so happy. You're connected. And thank you so much for your work. Mary Abbajay  5:10   Well, Carly, that's so sweet. Now I just kind of feel like I just said good night Detroit. Like Thank you tip your waitresses, because that was really, really lovely. Yeah, Sarah is lovely person. And I was so delighted when you reached out to me, so I'm really excited to be here. So thanks for having me. Carley Hauck  5:24   Well, thank you. Could you share a little bit with our listeners about the work that you're doing in the world? And and also anything else you want to share about you as a person? identities? All those pieces? All those hats? We were right. Mary Abbajay  5:41   Oh, my gosh. So well, you know, I'm an introvert. So this is like my worst nightmare to talk about myself. But for you for you, Carly, I will do it. Hello, Shine listeners. My name is Mariana J. I am an organizational development consultant, I have a little boutique firm, called Career stone group. And we like to say that we help people make workplaces that are productive and positive. And we help people to be productive and positive in their workplaces. I'm a Gemini, I live in Washington, DC, I am married with one little furbaby named Valentino, he's a little rescue shitzu, if you've ever heard of such a thing, and I'm the author of a book called Managing Up, how to move up when at work and succeed with any type of boss, and it's all about how you can really take control of your career and be successful. I love what I do. I am a workaholic. Mostly because I love my work. Because I get to do cool things like this all the time. And that really, really feeds my soul, I have this diluted sense that by helping people make their work lives better, I'm doing just a little bit to make the world a better place. So that's, that's kind of under passion about what I do. So that's, that's me. Carley Hauck  6:54   Thank you. I love hearing all those other parts about you. Some of those I knew, because you're pretty transparent in the book. Well, I have to say this book is phenomenal. Like I have a high bar for books, being an author myself. And I just think this is so needed. And so for those of you that have had a boss or have a boss, they'll get this book, there will be links in the show notes, show notes, but I highly recommended. And before I even got to the part, where you share in the book, Why you actually ended up kind of writing this book, I had this intuition, I bet she had a really bad boss. And for all of them. Oh, wow. Yeah. And so that's really where I wanted to go in our in our conversation today. So they're kind of a couple of threads, I wanted to speak about how we manage ourselves first self management, so that we can confidently and powerfully manage up with any kind of boss. And I also wanted to talk a little more deeply about some of the root causes of why people are acting unconsciously, we could call them you know, bad bosses, I often like to use unconscious leaders because sometimes these behaviors, and even the wounding that is causing these behaviors are unconscious. And so instead of healing, they're hurting, and they're harming people in the workplace. I also wanted to bring in a little bit of the research that I have done and the framework on what are the conscious leadership qualities that we can grow, so that we can actually be more conscious leaders, and people don't have to manage us so much. And then lastly, I'd love to ask you some questions about what you can actually be assessing, when you're first having interviews with this potential new hire or new boss, and also what you might be able to do in the first 90 days to 100 days. And then I thought it could be fun if we role played one of the vos personalities and how you might manage yourself and how you might manage them. So we have a meaty discussion here. Unknown Speaker  9:20   I love it. I can't wait. Carley Hauck  9:22   Thank you. Thank you. Well, for folks that have been listening to the shine podcast, you know that I started this podcast because it was part of the research that I was conducting on my book on conscious leadership. And part of the reason that I wrote that book was because I was seeing lots and lots of folks in different industries over 10 years that were possessing certain qualities of consciousness that then supported more high performing teams psychological safety trust, well being and they were the exception, unfortunately. not the rule. So as a way to discern, and really bring in this framework, I had to see a lot of unconscious leadership, personally and professionally. And so, Mary, this brings us back to the reason that you wrote this book. It sounds like you had multiple leaders that and bosses that were really hard to navigate and to manage up. Do you feel like sharing any story from any one of those? Mary Abbajay  10:33   Oh, yeah. I mean, I share a lot of them in the books me I had, you know, and I think throughout, first of all, all the bad bosses I had led me to decide that if they could be a bad boss, I could be my own bad boss. I didn't need someone else being an asshole. I could be an asshole to myself, like, I didn't need that. So I have so many bad bosses is one of the reasons why I went, I became an entrepreneur. I'm like, I can do this. Like, I don't need this above me. So all in all, it was a good thing. You know, I had a boss, I had a boss that was a horrible micromanager, just horrible, horrible, horrible. I had a boss who was a screaming, shouting bully. I had a boss that was just completely incompetent, inadequate. And of all these bosses, I did have one boss, who was amazing, who was the kind of boss that really partnered with you. He was the kind of boss that really encouraged you. And he was kind of boss that that you could really flourish with. So I have had one good boss, well, the PROSPER not very good, but only one was toxic. And so as we talk about, like difficult bosses or difficult people or unconscious leadership, I think there's a big difference between someone who is an okay person, but not a good boss, right? A good boss for you. But there are people so that maybe they're unconscious of the impact of their of their bossing behaviors. But I do hope we do talk a little bit about like those that are not good people. They're more than unconscious. They're, they're the toxic people, because I think that's a real problem in the world. Carley Hauck  12:06   It is, it is an actually, I wanted to go there a little bit with you right now. So thank you for sharing all of that. So this was one of the quotes that I found in your book, and I, you know, I bring research into everything that I am also talking about, because it it really grounds it in a certain reality, especially for those skeptics, but you shared that research shows that it takes up to 22 months to emotionally and psychologically recover from the trauma of a psycho crazy bully tyrannical screaming egomaniac boss. Yeah, that's a long time. Yeah. And so what would Mary Abbajay  12:47   you say? I'll tell you, Carly. So you know, that was the research that I found a couple of years ago, and I wrote the book. And since then, I have probably spoken to well over like 10s and 10s of 1000s of people. And in every crowd, there's going to be 20%, who have had a psycho crazy, tyrannical, toxic boss, right? And I always ask people, How long did it take you to recover? And I think the 22 months was conservative, because I am hearing people talk about the trauma 23456 years later. So I think that 22 months is actually if I was to rewrite the book today, I might say up to five years, because I have met way too many people that are still struggling and still recovering from that trauma years and years after. Carley Hauck  13:35   I just feel such sadness and heaviness in my heart. Because I know part of why you and I are both here is we want to create healing organizations know that let work be a place where we can thrive. Thank you for for sharing that. Yeah. Mary Abbajay  13:52   And I will say this to any of your listeners, because this is really like this just gets my goat that we still in the 21st century. With all we know about neuroscience with all we know about organizational effectiveness and engagement, that organizations still allow toxic leaders in their organization. It just like I was, you know, we just saw the thing about Jimmy Fallon, like every week and these are famous people. Think about all those organizations that don't have famous leaders that nobody cares that this is happening. So you know, I want people to realize that if you are working in a toxic situation, you have to get out. No one is coming to save you. HR isn't coming to save you. They may want to save you they don't usually have the power to save you because the toxic people usually sit at the very top and toxic workplaces will make you physically ill you have a 60% increased likelihood of cardiac diseases stroke, it decimates your immune system, making you susceptible to all sorts of diseases like flus cold ulcers, it decimated You know, your emotional field, your psychological field, your mental health. And we know that people stay in toxic situations two years longer than they stay in other non toxic situations, because there's a lot of toxicity that goes on and what we call high meaning careers. fields like law fields, like medicine, fields, like politics, fields, like government. So people will tend to stay longer in these fields, because they really love their job, or they're passionate about what they're doing and for whom nonprofits is also a big place for toxicity. And so people tend to stay much longer, I just have to tell you, if you if you are in a toxic situation, you have to get out 10s of 1000s of people, I've asked this other question, too, how long did it take you to recover? And did you leave too soon, not one person has ever said they'd love to soon. They didn't leave soon enough. Carley Hauck  15:58   Thank you for sharing that. And I do believe that some of these conscious leadership qualities that we're going to talk about will actually one really help us to know our value to know our worth, and be able to manage ourselves more quickly, so that we can manage up. But I agree with you. And also would love to just talk about the deeper aspect of why these folks are showing up in the way that they are. We all have trauma, you know, individually, collectively, intergenerationally. And there are folks that are not doing their inner work, have not done their inner work. And frankly, the workplace has not always and mostly has not invested in learning or leadership development. That is why Leadership Development Manager effectiveness is thankfully the number one priority for HR right now. Because that's the only way we're going to be able to create a future of work that actually works for people. And hallelujah, for the younger generations that are really speaking up, they're more socially engaged, they're saying no, and they are the bulk of the workforce. So we have to change, because otherwise no one's going to come to work. Mary Abbajay  17:22   We do have to change, you know, the challenge will be with this change is that will HR be empowered to actually make a difference? I fear that some of this will go by the wayside, like D Ay ay ay is going a little bit by the wayside. Because at the end of the day, a lot of private sector organizations and nonprofit organizations always put their bottom line value on how much money is this organization making. And so I think one that challenges for HR when the opportunities is for them to show the bottom line, cash money value of actually investing in good leadership and good management, and employee health and an employee engagement. And it might take a newer generation of the C suite executives to actually place that value, right to actually be open to looking at that value. Because at the end of the day, for a lot of corporations, Money talks, and employee health walks us. So I really do, I really am I'm very hopeful. And a little cautious around this, I just hope that we can get the C suite to see the actual money value of being a good leader. Because you know, you see all these toxic leaders are all these bad leaders. They're just all these unhappy, low employee, low engagement places, and they still don't do anything about it. So we've got a kind of a new breed of C suites, they actually appreciate this, I think, Carley Hauck  18:49   well, and that's where really investing in leadership development to invest in how to be a co leadership Mary Abbajay  18:55   development only works if the top tier leadership places a value on it. Right? So I'm the you and I are both trainers, right? So we go in and we teach all the great skills, how to be, you know, a great leader, a great manager. And if they aren't rewarded for that, that doesn't happen, right? So their top leaders don't actually invest in making sure and holding those managers accountable for being good people, managers, the managers don't have any incentive. You take an organization, I think it's Deloitte or Accenture, I was getting confused. They got very serious about making sure their managers were more people centric. And so the managers part of their performance review is are you having? I think they have to do like monthly check ins with their people, are you and they're actually grading the managers on the success of their people in terms of their people's happiness and their engagement levels. And that seems to be working. So I think if we're going to do the leadership development, that's the carrot but you also need the reward? Carley Hauck  20:01   Well, I I agree with you. And, you know, going back to what you were sharing, there is more retention, there is more internal mobility, you know, there is more employee well being and people do want to stay when there are strong conscious leaders of the home. Yes, but But going back to leadership development, I started off with my path as a therapist, so I worked a lot with traumatized populations. And so I feel trauma informed on you know, the signs to look for. But we need to be assessing like, who has trauma and who doesn't, and who is doing the inner work, so that that's not being repeated, and they're now traumatizing other people. So I, I don't know if the workplace is ready for that. But like, that's the other piece we have to solve. We have to actually equip trainers, coaches, HR on being informed about trauma, and then and then solutions for healing. Yeah, that's just that's another piece that I see. So we are talking a bit about, you know, leadership manager, effectiveness being the number one priority in HR. And I wanted to talk a little bit about this conscious leadership framework, because I think it complements really well, some of the pieces in your book, and your research. So I distilled that there were nine different leadership competencies, that all worked in tandem, and actually on a continuum. And every person has different ranges of use, but when they're all actually dialed in, at the same time, we end up leading from our best selves, we can empower and lead our teams, we can increase trust, psychological safety, inclusion, innovation, without burning our folks out or further traumatizing them. And so I always like to kind of put myself you know, in the ring and ask my, my guests as well, where they think they are falling on some of these dimensions. So there, there are nine, which is self awareness, self management, empathy, resilience, which is a growth mindset, humility, self belonging, which is really including the dimensions of self love, self compassion, self forgiveness, self acceptance, and then physical, and psychological well being. And so not to put you too much on the spot, Mary, but I feel curious, what are one or two areas that you feel like as a leader, you're really prioritizing you, you're leading from this place, so you can lead others in a more conscious way? Mary Abbajay  22:55   I think for me, I think there's four that I think there's four, I don't know that I prioritize them. But there's four that I think are, are very prevalent in my day to day in my life, and one is self management. I am I'm constantly trying to self manage myself, I try to think about how do I need to say this was my impact for your listeners to know I'm actually like, I'm talking really slow right now. And it's really hard for me, like so like really trying to like in, you know, I'm a very direct, fast paced, you know, I'm a high strung type a person, so I'm always trying to manage that. So self management is a very big priority for me. My empathy is pretty strong. My husband says, It's my Libra moon, and my rising Gemini. I know, that's silly. My husband's on to the horoscope. But I do and I think empathy is really great. I think sometimes empathy gets in the way for me making tough decisions. But there's something that I don't want to lose resilience and a growth mindset are things I really try to prioritize, you cannot be as you know, a business owner, and not have to not cultivate resiliency, and a growth mindset. Because the minute you think that you you're all that in a bag of chips, you're gonna get smacked down. And the minute you think your business is all going good, you're gonna lose a big client. And the minute you think, you know, everything and you start, you stop being a learner, you're gonna lose it. And then humility, I think, I think I tend to be a very humble person. And I think humility is really important. Maybe it verges on the, on the side of self deprecation, which isn't necessarily so good. But yeah, so those are the four that I think are most prevalent in my life. Carley Hauck  24:35   Thank you. Yeah. Thank you self management, of resilience. And then I heard in humility, being humility. Yeah, yeah, definitely. Mary Abbajay  24:46   I can reach my husband says, that means I let my team walk all over me. He's like, You need to just you just need to lay down the lawn like Oh, but they're really busy. I'll just take on this piece of work for them. Carley Hauck  24:57   So when you talk about self management? What are your tips for self managing? I heard you say that you're trying to talk slowly. Why are you trying to do that right now in this moment, Mary Abbajay  25:10   because I lose the idea myself on my podcast and other people's podcasts or on, you know, video of me and I am talking way too fast. So I'm trying to slow it down so that people can hear me and understand. And plus, sometimes my mouth moves faster than my brain. That's not always a great thing. But yeah, so when I say self management, I, you know, I'm fairly aware of my, of my tendencies that are not going to have positive impact on people. So I do set an intention around a handful of my less than lovely qualities to try to make them more palatable to other people. I'm a big believer in the platinum rule, you know, really find out to treat others as they want to be treated. And so self managing myself around people who operate differently than me, is something I really work on. I work hard on trying to do. Carley Hauck  26:04   Hmm, thank you for sharing that. I really appreciate it. You know, where do you think some of the more unconscious leaders? Where do you think they might be lower Mary Abbajay  26:17   self awareness completely, is completely with self awareness, and then self management. So you know, I think, first of all, let's be honest, human beings are as are not very self aware, we like to think we're self aware. But we are not, I think it's Adam Grant that talks a lot about the lack of our self awareness. And not only are we not really self aware about what's driving us, we really lack awareness, and concern, I think about how our actions, our words, or deeds, and our behaviors are impacting other people. I really liked Tasha, Europe's work on this, in your book insight, where she did, she does a lot of work with C suite executives. And she found like 95% of them think that they're highly, highly self aware, and that she did some research on that by interviewing their teams. And something like only 15 15% of them actually were self aware. So I think that I think self awareness, especially around your impact on others, how other people experience you is very, very low in leaders. And I think it gets worse, as leaders go up the chain of command, because as you go up the chain of command, first of all, people stop giving you feedback, right? They stop telling you the truth about who you are. And I think quite frankly, people start believing their own shit, I'm sorry, that's French, for married, people start believing their own stuff, like I'm so good, I'm this, I'm this important. I'm so smart. I'm up here in the C suite. And I think that people really lose a lot of their self awareness. And if you don't have self awareness, you're not gonna be able to do self management. And the other thing I think that happens in leadership, is, as you were pointing out, we don't necessarily do a great job in America, of actually developing our leaders or managers before they become leaders or managers. Harvard did a study on this a few years back, and they found most managers get their first taste of being a supervisor or a manager in their late 20s, or early 30s. But they don't get significant training on that until their late 30s, early 40s. So for 10 years, they're just kind of making it up, right. And if they're trying to make it up based on a culture that has poor management examples, or poor leadership examples, then they're not going to get any self awareness, therefore, they're not going to get the self management about how the impact of their management style is working or not working. Carley Hauck  28:36   Agreed. And, you know, most people leaders have been advanced for their technical skills, not because of their people skills. That's exactly right. And they're still calling people skills, soft skills. But if we can't manage or empower our people, we're not going to be able to get the deliverables or the business objectives done. Like it's just not going to happen. Mary Abbajay  29:00   I know. And the other thing that I see Carly is that there's a lot of people that are managers, or leaders, they don't really want to manage the people, right? And so it's if you want to be a good people manager, if you're only taking that job to make more money or advance your career, which I understand, but if you don't want the people part of the job, then where's the incentive for you to become self aware, right, or to be have self manage or even to have the the humility or the empathy or the resilience from other people management? Carley Hauck  29:31   So hearing that most people are not very self aware, one of the things that I know that I do, and that I would hope to encourage in more learning and leadership development programs, and I don't do it all the time, but I try to, is to check in on. So what's your reaction to what I just said? Like what was the impact of that? Yeah, and yeah, that takes it down a notch and it does take more time. But how was My Message received? Because if we don't ask, then people are likely not always going to tell us, you and I are more direct. So we will probably tell people in a kind, indirect way, but most people don't feel safe. They don't either feel safe in themselves, or they don't have the courage to say it out loud. Because that that also has not been something that has been very promoted in our culture is Mary Abbajay  30:27   I think you're right. And I think you have bosses like telling me the truth, I want to hear it. But you know, they don't, because their past behavior has shown you that they don't. So I think that's always a very interesting thing. You know, and I think, you know, when you're talking about managing up, you know, I think self awareness and self management is really key for managing up. And so I often tell people, you know, if you really want to understand your impact on people, the best way to do that, and you can do the 360. But it's really to reach out to like, 10 of your colleagues and say, What five adjectives would you use to describe me? What like, what do people say about me when I'm not in the room? You know, what skills or talents Am I known for, and asking the people that will be honest with you, and then being really open to hearing that. So I think that if we can start developing our self awareness of how we as humans, impact other human beings, early on in our career, I think that really helps us develop that openness to feedback, the openness to take a look at ourselves as we move up into the food chain. This is also why I actually do whenever I do like those personality, things like the disc or predictive index, or Myers Briggs, I really liked those in the sense of, if it can open up people's minds as to understanding the difference between their intention and their impact. I think we can go a long way, just knowing that as you know, an introvert, just because I'm not talking doesn't mean I don't care about you, or you know, as a ad on the desk, just because I'm very direct with you. It doesn't mean I don't care about you. So I think the more we can understand how the how our behaviors may be misinterpreted by other people, I think that can help develop more self awareness. Carley Hauck  32:16   Hmm, loving all this input. Thank you. Yeah. The next area that I wanted to go into, and I love that you said, you know, self awareness, self management are the pieces that you think are really low. And these unconscious leaders, I would also say empathy, and humility, which were two of your strengths, I think they tend to be more of my strengths as well, you know, if you can admit that you're, you got it wrong, you made a mistake. If you can't actually emphasize that empathize with what's actually happening for the other person, then again, you're not going to be able to be a very conscious caring leader. Mary Abbajay  32:53   I agree. I just got a call from a law firm that wants me to help them teach their mid mid career associates how to give feedback, they said it, can you also teach them how to be more empathetic? Yes, I will try. But things like empathy, like that's a hard thing to teach. Right, Carly? I mean, you can explain it, you can demonstrate it, you can coach them. But that is kind of at some point, don't you think that empathy is a choice like that you must in some way choose to look at something from someone else else's perspective. At some point, you have to choose to whether or not you want to appreciate their experience or their so I'm curious to hear from you. Like, how do you teach empathy? Carley Hauck  33:40   Great question. Well, in chapter two of my book, which is the inner game of emotional intelligence, I talk about, you have the inner game, which is the self awareness and self management, and then you have the outer game. So when those are cultivated, then you're able to have more social awareness, which is oh, what might be happening for this person. And then number four is the relationship mastery. So those are actually the four facets of Dan Goleman emotional intelligence, however, like they really pertain to the inner cultivation, and then what shows up on the outside, but what, what I would say is, as far as helping people build empathy is that it's really helpful if you have them think about someone that they care about. So just imagine that this person is going through this right now. Like it could be their sister, it could be their daughter, it could be their mother. And once you bring it into somebody in their sphere and circle that they care about, it's much easier for them to then have empathy even for the difficult person. But you I would say start with someone they like first or you know, to build that empathy muscle and then you can start to expand it out even to have empathy for the difficult person because ultimately, it's that difficult person is just hurting, they're wounded, they've had trauma, right? They're not either so conscious of it, or they are conscious of it. But they're still a messy human. And so I can have compassion for their wounding, for their hurting, and also hold really strong boundaries around how I'm going to be put in the line of fire, and also call on allies. You know, this is one thing about managing those more toxic leaders in the eye 100% agree with you, you have to get out this is going in a different direction. But I had wanted to say this earlier, I had just forgotten, I think it's super important that we also find our allies, you know, in the workplace, that are practicing the same kinds of leadership skills, because who we surround ourselves with, is actually going to influence us the most. And if we can have a buffer of people that are validating our experience, that are also able to say, Hey, I had that experience with this person, too, then HR would feel more empowered to do something, right. It's called activating Mary Abbajay  36:10   your support network. That's how I refer to, but you know, but HR is only empowered as much as they're empowered. So we have to be really clear, I don't want to give people false hope, if you go to HR, your problems can be solved. It really depends on how much power HR has and who the toxic person is. Because there's also the whole whistleblower thing, like I could tell you horror stories about people that have went gone to HR and just made things worse for them. So it's really you gotta know, before, before anyone goes to HR, you really need to check out how well your HR has handled situations like this in the past, right? So ask around a little bit. But you know, it's funny, we're talking about empathy around like that. I teach that all the time, when I'm telling people to manage up as well, like, exactly like this person, this boss was a micromanager or this boss that's doing this are annoying you, you know, think for a minute, what's going on for them, right? Or think for a minute, I often do this make for men, the last time that you micromanage somebody, or the last time that you did behavior that you weren't proud of, you know, and that that can help kind of get people out of the amygdala hijack. Because what happens when we're dealing with difficult people, we get very frustrated, very fight or flight, you know, and so you got to get out of that in order to be able to make good choices. Carley Hauck  37:27   Definitely. Well, let's go into an example of a difficult manager and how we might manage ourselves and then manage up. And I also just want to share as I was reading through your book, and there's there's so many different manager types. I could relate more strongly to a few of them. And I'm bringing this up because in the chapter where we talk about the seagulls, which is the oh, goodness, sorry, the the nitpickers in the seagulls. Yeah, as I was, as I was actually reading through the nitpicker, because that comes first and then we go on to the seagulls. I love to the distinction that you put in is that the nitpickers are really about perfection versus the micromanagers are about control. But I'm springing this up because I could see how my team at times has thought of me as a nitpicker. Oh, sure. Because I have a high bar for excellence. Mary Abbajay  38:30   You know, the thing is, we've all done all these behaviors. We've all done them. All right, if you've worked long enough, but we don't judge ourselves as these things right? The circumstances, you know, so yeah, so the nitpicker so micro managers are about control. You're right. So most micro managers tend to be nitpickers. But not all nitpickers are micro managers. Because a nitpicker is the person that's going to nitpick small things for perfection. They may be important things or they might be minor things, you know, but they're probably gonna let you do your your gig your stuff, and then they're gonna swoop in afterwards and nitpick so I can be a nitpicker to my team will tell you that I nitpick their slideshows. That thought Saglie I don't like that graphic. I don't nitpick the content, which is the important thing, right? I have a certain visual I want. So yeah, understood. So if you have a nitpicky boss, it's really important to find out like what they care about, like, you know, like, is it the font? Is it the format? Is it the color? Is it the use of the Oxford comma or no Oxford comma, you know, so don't resist what the nitpicker was, and choose your battles wisely. You know, if you're just and be prepared for it. So if you know that your boss is going to nitpick something, then give them a draft an early draft and let them nitpick the early draft. Find out ask them questions ahead of time is the particular font you want is Is there a format you prefer? You know, what kind of graphics marry do you think would be great for this slideshow? That sort of thing? So find out, I was working with this law firm and this, we're doing a Managing Up course in this first year associate, you know, they have no power, first year associate comes up to me and says, Mary, I need your help. The Managing Partner won't use the extra comma. How can I give him that feedback that he's wrong? It's like, you know what you don't. If he doesn't want to use the extra comma, that's not a battle that that's not a hill, you want to die on your first year. So you have to pick your battles wisely. When it comes to the debt with nitpicker, and then ask questions like find out, you know, so Carly, why do you like things this way? Tell me about your preference for this. Because the more you can learn about what your boss cares about, the more you can figure out how to make things are more in alignment. Now, of course, we're not talking about things that are unethical, or things that are bad or wrong. We're talking about nitpicky things. Carley Hauck  41:04   Well, what I tell my team too, is like, if you're not clear on what I am actually asking for, then don't just do it and get it wrong. Because then I'm gonna go and tell you, you need to redo it. Like if there's even an wrinkle of I don't know if this is right, just text me call me asked me. Let's have a conversation. Because otherwise, it's annoying for you. And for me. Yeah. So, but that one, I just happen to bring it up because it's such a good one. And I bet everybody can relate to that one. But it's in the same chapter. Let's go into this. Because there's two kinds because there's Mary Abbajay  41:40   two kinds. Yeah, there's all seagulls swoop, people all seagulls swoop, you have a sweeper and a pooper and a super, and a scooper. So the swooper and pooper swoops in our project has been hands off, they swoop in, and they poop all over it. Like they just are like, this is awful. This is awful. Damn, why were you guys doing it, I know what you're doing. And they just, you know, Crusher ready. And then they swoop right back out, leaving like doctress of like bad feelings and, you know, crushed hearts and souls. So that's the Super and pooper, then you have the swooper and scooper. And this is the boss that you know, assigns you a project, and then all of a sudden they swoop in and they take the project away for two for their own, they take it away, and they put their name on it. And you've worked hard on it. And suddenly it's away from you, and you are really bummed out. So those are the two different kinds of seagulls. Carley Hauck  42:34   I really appreciate that. So I had this idea that perhaps, you know, we could roleplay this. So let's say that I have a boss that is a super. And I was working really hard on Unknown Speaker  42:45   pooper scooper. Carley Hauck  42:47   As a scooper. Unknown Speaker  42:49   He's super super. Carley Hauck  42:50   Yeah, thank you. So the seagull have a boss us swoops in, and scoops in. And it's a project I've been working really hard on, I'm presenting it to senior stakeholders. And then all of a sudden, they act like it's theirs, they take credit for it. Yeah, as I think about that, I would get triggered. That would be something that I really have to spend a little more time self managing myself my reaction to not take it personally. Yeah, to understand my motive or their motivations. And then therefore to advocate for myself, how would you coach me to manage up in that scenario, especially with senior stakeholders? Mary Abbajay  43:42   Yeah, so there's a couple of things with the you know, with the CIO, there's the scooper, that's gonna steal the credit. And then there's just a scoop of this gonna take over the project. I mean, they're kind of similar, but they're a little bit different. Like, they might actually take over the project and still give you some credit as they finish it. So the first thing I would say to you is, you know, is this a pattern? Like, is this a pattern that this boss does frequently? Or infrequently, they would ask you to kind of look for the patterns, like, as there are certain types of projects that they swoop and scoop on? Are there certain, like what's going on in the culture that makes them like this project suddenly has probably gotten to be high visibility, right? So I asked you about the pattern, so that you can anticipate it. The other thing I'd say is, you know, are you keeping this person in the loop on this, like, Did this person Scoop it because they didn't know how, where it was? Or are they scooping it because they didn't know where it was? And they want to take the credit for it. So then I would want to ask you around like, what, and part of this would also rely on what kind of a boss this person is. Could you have a conversation with this boss about this? Could you go in and say, you know, Hey, boss, I was really disappointed that not gonna be able to work on XYZ project or, you know, I'd really like to get some feedback on my piece of the project. Was my performance not satisfactory, just curious as to, you know what it was? Why, why I'm no longer working out, I tried to avoid saying why you took it away from me. But find a nice way to do that. No, Carley Hauck  45:20   I think leading with curiosity, when you're not in a triggered place is really great. Like, Oh, I wonder why did why did that end up being put on your calendar and not mine anymore? sense it in that way? And Mary Abbajay  45:36   that's something really important when you're not in a triggered state. Carley Hauck  45:40   Yes. Yes, I have a whole framework on triggers, which I'll actually leave in the show notes, because I have to practice it all the time. Yeah. And I think in order to manage up, we have to manage ourselves. Yep. Mary Abbajay  45:54   And then the last thing I'll say about the scooper is, you know, even you know, anticipate this for the next time that they're going to scoop it. But sometimes, if you keep them in the loop, and you see see other people, especially other people that this project is impacting, it's gonna be a lot harder for them to steal the credit if other people know you're working at it. And the last thing I'll say about this is, of course, then you can also when it's all done, you can also go back in and say, I would love to know how that project turned out. How are my pieces, so you can like, get some feedback and like, post thing. And then lastly, and I can't live, we're gonna suggest this, I might deny it. You know, this is what the gossip mill is for. And I don't mean bad mouthing your boss, but make it known, make sure people know, your contribution to this project. You know, like, if you ever run into his boss, and in the elevator or her his or their boss and elevator, and they say what you've been working on, you can say, you know, what, I was really lucky enough to work on that pesky project that my boss handed in, it was really exciting. And I really liked the opportunity to support that project. Don't take all the credit. But you can also do some backdoor self promotion on that. Carley Hauck  47:02   I love that. So holding people accountable by you know, really having all the stakeholders in the same email thread, transparency, and then also just speaking aloud your contribution with other folks and other stakeholders. I think that's, that's really great. Mary Abbajay  47:19   And then finally, you know, if your boss does this a lot and steals credit a lot. Then you may not be he she or they may not be the right boss for you. Because occasionally, you know, because some bosses say, you work for me, your ideas are my ideas. Right. So that's kind of the old school bossiness. You know, the 20 century boss. And if that's not your thing, and I don't blame you, it's not my thing, either, then you, you, maybe you need to find a different boss. Because if you're not getting what you need, as professional as a human being, if you're not being valued, if they don't find you valuable, and your ideas, then there's no shame in quitting like, find something was find a place where people do value you and they do find you valuable, and you get what you need, emotionally, psychologically, intellectually and fulfilling in your career. So you have a scooper and it drives you crazy. Get a new boss, get new jobs. Yeah, those are all really give yourself permission to quit. Uh huh. Carley Hauck  48:19   Yeah. So I've got two last questions for you. Okay. A lot of people are, you know, looking for new roles and new jobs they're interviewing, I am in that boat right now, I'm just going to put myself in the ring interviewing, you know, new potential supervisors for my for my new internal role. What are some things that I can be assessing to figure out? Who is this person, like, what kind of a boss are they going to be? And what's difficult about this, Mary, is that I will have one conversation with this person to be able to say, I'm the right candidate for you. And we may have a half hour, we may have 45 minutes. So ultimately, I'd love to be able to have further conversations, because I'm interviewing them as much as they're interviewing me. And I'm putting myself, you know, in this in the eye position, but I really want this to be in service of everybody that's thinking about this. Mary Abbajay  49:12   Yeah. You know, this is a hard one, I'm much better at telling you what to ask once you get in. But here's what I'm gonna say it for this. First of all, if you're going in person, right, if you're going into a physical office to interview with that person face to face, which I think happens still occasionally, mostly virtual days. But if you do get to go visit, physically, trust your gut, like trust the vibe you feel in the office, because Aska not only tell you a lot, it's gonna tell you a lot about the culture. What do people look like? Are people smiling? Did it look happy? They look stressed. So that sort of thing. So trust and trust, like the vibe you get from someone physically, also trust whatever vibe you can get virtually, although it's a little bit harder. I would ask questions like, you know, tell me about your best employee who's really successful here. What are you doing? Just priorities for your team. So I'd ask things like that. I would say, you know, what drives you crazy about about? I said, what drives you crazy about your employees? Or what are your biggest pet peeves? And you can learn a lot about from people ask about their pet peeves. I would also ask them, What do you like best about being a manager? Hmm, Carley Hauck  50:20   that's a great question. Mary Abbajay  50:22   What do you like best about being a manager? It's hard, because the really the really toxic bosses are just going to be lying. But I would say tell me about your greatest. Tell me. Tell me about if you want to find out about their work life balance, you know, tell me about how you encourage work life balance or? Or how or how do Carley Hauck  50:41   you set boundaries? Yeah. Between work things like Mary Abbajay  50:45   that are really great. Right? What what questions have you been asking? Carley Hauck  50:51   Well, I have been asking great question, some questions when I have an opportunity, because sometimes they don't leave you any room to ask a question. So then I follow up with questions. But I'm always asking them, you know, what is the what is the personality style that's going to be most complimentary with you. And the team is great. And then I also ask, you know, what does success look like in this role in the first three months, in the first six months, in in the first year, because then I know if I'm going to either flop on my face, or if this is going to be a place, I can really bring my best value, and create success, which is what I want, which is what they want, which is Mary Abbajay  51:32   what they want. You know, the other thing you can do, the other thing you can do is you can you can say, Hey, would it be possible for me to talk to another team member? To learn about that? Or do you want to be a little more devious, I don't think is devious. Because you know, you're about to commit, maybe commit to these people. You could literally reach out to somebody Carley Hauck  51:51   done that with other people in the company. What's the culture? Like? Who you Yeah, Mary Abbajay  51:56   what do people say about this boss and things like that? I think that is totally fair game. If you don't know anybody at the company. That's what LinkedIn, that's what LinkedIn is for. cyber stalking. But I think the more I think, you know, I so when I interview for people, people, I actually, I really insist that they talk to my team first. And, and I, my team knows that they, they are really clear about who I am. And they're really honest with with with the people, and then they will come to me and say, Yeah, this person is not for you, or you're gonna love this person. And they're gonna love you. So I really like it when you went hiring bosses, let the team talk to the people too. Carley Hauck  52:39   Well, and then pretty much all the feedback you gave would also the things that you could be assessing in the first 90 days, but also just having more direct conversations with this person, you know, to see, okay, there's going to be certain things that aren't going to work well. But how can I adapt? Right? And and how can how can we have this be a win win for both of us? Mary Abbajay  53:00   That's exactly right. That's exactly right. You because yeah, and hopefully, and by the way, if anyone's looking for work life balance, and you say, you know, what's the culture here, and the boss, the hiring person says to you, oh, we work hard, and we play hard. That's a high work culture. Carley Hauck  53:20   Well, and the other part of your book, which I think is really helpful, too, is that you're able to assess your strengths and your weaknesses, and also what kind of boss you're going to vibe with and best. And so again, this comes back to self awareness, like, you know, own own your, your parts, and then find the right fit for you. Because not everyone is going to be the right fit. Mary Abbajay  53:47   You bless your heart, you are 1%, right, you know, what we tend to do is we all tend to like the way we operate. So when people operate differently than us, then we tend to get really frustrated and make them you know, make us the victim and make them the perpetrator. And the truth is, there are some people like my favorite boss might be your worst nightmare. You know, your favorite boss might be someone else's worst nightmare. And so really be able to own your own piece of the puzzle is really important to be honest with yourself about what what kind of person you are and what kind of person you're going to work well with. And what you might need to do more of less of or differently in order to work well with the boss that you've decided to work for. Carley Hauck  54:25   For sure. And that comes back to the self management, right is owning your reaction to whatever's happening, because because you're the only person that can change that reaction. Mary Abbajay  54:38   Yeah, because we only have control over ourselves. We don't control anybody else. But I do have some questions that you can ask once you start, okay. By the way, if anybody wants these questions, they can just email me because you're gonna put that in the show notes or something reach out to me or find me on LinkedIn. Yes, Carley Hauck  54:53   your LinkedIn will be in the show notes and your website. Mary Abbajay  54:57   And these are really basic questions, but I'm telling you Guys, they work so much. And managers love it. They always know they should be having these with you. But if they don't things simple things like What's your preferred mode of communication? Yeah. How do you like to be approached regarding an issue or challenge or a problem? How often do you like to meet as a team or one on one? Is the question you did before? What does success look like to you defined top performer? How often do you like to be updated? And projects? How do you like your updates? Like I like updates, but I want to be kept in the loop not in the soup. So I have a couple of people on my team that are really detail oriented, and my eyes glaze over. isn't done? That's to my mind. If you had a perfect team member, what would that person look like? What are your top priorities? What the biggest pressure is on you or the team right now? How can I best support you? What do you find annoying about working with others? And then always say, What can I do more of less of a definitely to work well with you? And what else do I need to know about working well with you always say what else and just have this conversation 15 minute conversation, I call it the preferences, priorities and pet peeves. This way, you're going to cover not only their work style, but like what's important to them, what they care about how they like to work, and it's going to be a good conversation. And I will also say this, as Carly and I were saying not everybody's very self aware, take their answers, but also measure them against how that you actually see them behaving. Like what they say, I'm very communicative. I love pop in meetings, and you know that they don't you see the behavior, the doubt. So take what they say, but don't treat it as gospel to actually see that behavior. Carley Hauck  56:44   I love all of those. And being that, you know, I bring a lot of coaching into the work that I'm doing. I've brought in actually a lot of those questions to support leaders, you know, to have conversations with their direct reports and with their supervisors. But then after you get those answers, what I think is even a really good next step is that one, you're writing it down, you repeat back what you heard them, say, so that it's actually correct. And then you create an agreement. So I hear you want me to do this, this and this. And then you say, well, on my side, I'd really love and you request which you need, and then you create an agreement, and you're probably going to make some oops, so then what's your accountability to come back to the agreement that you just had, you know, and this is where psychological safety and trust is built. But this, these types of questions, I think are essential in your one on ones, but also in the team. There's so many teams, senior leadership teams that I get asked to come in, and they haven't done any of them. They don't know how your team wants to work. So how are you even? How are you delivering on projects, y'all? Mary Abbajay  57:56   You know, I love that because I think I think, you know, this is a partnership like employee and leaders partnership. And I love that you are helping the leaders ask these questions downward as I'm helping the employees ask them upwards, because it is a conversation that both should have. And I always say to my folks, you know, hopefully once you ask your boss these questions, they'll turn around and ask you the same questions and listen to them. And it's always makes me sad when someone emails me back and says, You know what, I had this great conversation with my boss, I asked this person all these questions, but they didn't ask me a single one. I was like, wow, that's sad. That's a missed opportunity from that boss, Carley Hauck  58:35   for sure. But this is how we change it. Right? This is this is when everyone's talking about human centered people first. Yeah, you start with connection, Unknown Speaker  58:44   you start with the people. Carley Hauck  58:48   How to Care for this person? Who is this person? How are we going to collaborate? Well, Mary, this was amazing. Thank you. Again, I just love this conversation. And again, everyone, this book is fabulous. And I love all those questions. So you so is there anything else you want to leave folks with? Mary Abbajay  59:07   I just want to say you know your work, you spend so many of your waking hours at work. I truly believe those should be great hours, there should be hours where you can use your mind, your heart, your creativity, your passion, they should be hours that that you that you find valuable and that add to your life, not detract your life. So if you have a bad boss, or you're in a bad workplace experience, do what you can to get a better workplace experience. You deserve it. You deserve it. You only live once and your work should be a bonus to that and nine detractor for your life. So good luck. Thank you, Carly. This was so awesome and get Carly's book people and leader stop being jerks out there. I have I have a presentation that call that's called your team hates you and here's why. Carley Hauck  59:54   Oh wow. Mary Abbajay  59:57   Your direct boss is not being jerks and start Reading current Carly's book. Carley Hauck  1:00:03   Yeah. Be the the leader that others will never want to leave and want to follow. Right? That's right. That's the opportunity right now. Thank you, Mary. Thanks, Carly. Let me summarize some of the key points of the interview before we go and give you some action steps you can put into place today. First, manage yourself. Before we can manage up down or laterally, we have to be able to know what is happening inside our bodies, when to speak and when to be quiet. We want to be the calm in the midst of the storm. And there is emotional contagion, whether you're working from zoom, or you're actually in person, people can feel and sense where you might be in your body. And so navigating your triggers, you'll find a free meditation in the show notes that you can utilize. There's also lots of wonderful practices in my book, on how to be a conscious leader. And there is a very effective framework on navigating triggers. In fact, this topic is one of the most highly sought out team building sessions that I offer with senior leaders. And additionally, the nine leadership capabilities that Mary and I spoke about before, which is this validated framework that I've developed in the last decade. self management is key to that competency. There is also a team building workshop that I am doing in partnership with Team Rothery. And this is also in the show notes. And it's called from trigger to triumph. So if you're interested in that, you can book that with your team. I do that with a lot of teams. Second, manage down, up and laterally. With Remote distributed workforce, we need to begin to have conversations that invite people to share what their preferences for communication are, when they might actually work best during the day, which could be really different. It might be that they take a longer break at lunch, because they want to go exercise and they were up really early hour they've got child care. Find out with your team and your supervisor, how people work best, what is going to actually help them collaborate, communicate with you the best. Third, invest in learning and leadership development for everyone at the company. This is one of the best ways that you can create a whole healthy organizational culture. And we know that culture eats strategy for breakfast. In the conscious leadership programs that I have designed and developed for some really amazing companies, I have validated metrics to showcase that empathy goes up 74%. That's one of the most sought after leadership competencies in our workplace right now. Psych psychological safety goes up by 47% internal mobility engagement goes up by 20 to 30%. And I have many more incredible results that I could share with you. If you're interested in having me partner with you. For an internal director above learning leadership and culture role I am interviewing now for the right boss, team and company to join. I am so excited about this opportunity to serve a thriving organizational culture, please feel free to reach out to me on LinkedIn. Number four, if you are in a truly toxic environment with a harmful and unconscious boss, definitely check out Mary's book, there's a lot of really wonderful ways to manage up, and also resources. I also recorded a podcast on this topic a few years ago. And if you go to the shownotes, you'll see it's how to coach a harmful and unconscious leader. There are tips and strategies and as Mary and I spoke about can't change the person. So you do need to leave but before you leave, find your allies. And if it feels safe to do so speak up so that this behavior and this person can be held accountable and so that the hurt and harm doesn't continue. And also so that this person gets help and they get actually taken out of their people leader role. This person is not equipped to lead people. They would be better served to just navigate with technology, or potentially take some time off to do some deep for healing. And the last thing I'd like to preface is that we all are navigating individual, collective and intergenerational trauma. And it's really important as we come together and really create what can be a healing organization that we are trauma informed, and especially in the people function of HR talent, and the chief people officer, we need to know what the signs of trauma are, and also where to give people resources and help. Please reach out to me to have a conversation on this. There's a lot of resources that I have on this topic and other really great people to connect to you to. Again, Mary is amazing. Mary, thank you so much for your service and your leadership. And if you enjoyed this episode, please share it with friends, family, or colleagues. We're all in this together and sharing is caring. If you have any questions, comments or topics you would like me to address on the podcast, please email me at support at Carley hauck.com And finally, thank you for tuning in and being part of this community. We have several wonderful future shine podcast episodes, so make sure you don't miss any and until we meet again, be the light and shine your light  

Chris and Ayasha Giarratana from Strategy Beam, a company designed to help business leaders alleviate their marketing stress.  They are joining us to talk about the ups, downs and crazy nuances of leading a company or organization with your spouse. We delve into the differences in gender, race, and more! We talk about setting up healthy boundaries, date nights, and sharing a mission. Join us as we dig into the details of partnership, love, strengths and weaknesses, and communication! Whether you own a business, work with your spouse or are simply in a relationship this episode is filled with practical insights on doing life, love and work with your favorite person!  Need marketing expertise? Check out Strategy Beam. https://www.strategybeam.com/

Wendy Wilson, mission advisor for the Development of Women for Missio Nexus, is convinced that women and men are designed for full and equal partnership in ministry, and it shows! In this episode, Wendy challenges the church to awaken to that vision, and she provides one way to get there: safe, experiential spaces to talk about the theology and practice of mixed-gender ministry partnership. Listen and be inspired—as Wendy notes, change is happening!    Guest Bio:  Having served in various capacities in leadership training ministry since 1984, Wendy's great joy is envisioning and equipping women to participate fully in living out their design in the Image of God and in the grand calling of the Great Commission. With a BBA from Texas A&M University and an MABS from Dallas Theological Seminary, Wendy has led inter-mission and inter-confessional mentoring and equipping efforts for 30+ years, having lived and traveled abroad for many of those years. After serving for twenty-eight years with a pastoral training mission, with a focus on engaging women with shepherding gifts, she has served since 2012 as the mission advisor for Development of Women to the Missio Nexus network of mission agencies, and as the founder and executive director of the collaborative Women's Development Track.    More info on Missio Nexus and Wendy's ministry:    Missio Nexus  Women's Development Track    Other Resources:    CBE eLearning Course: Beyond Bias: Aligning towards God's Vision for Women and Men in Bible Translation    The Ministry of Women in the New Testament: Reclaiming the Biblical Vision for Church Leadership    How to Teach Mutuality to the Next Generation    Disclaimer:  The opinions expressed in CBE's Mutuality Matters' podcast are those of its hosts or guests and do not purport to reflect the opinions or views of CBE International or its members or chapters worldwide. The designations employed in this podcast and the presentation of content therein do not imply the expression of any opinion whatsoever on the part of CBE concerning the legal status of any country, area or territory or of its authorities, or concerning the delimitation of its frontiers. 

// Sobre não termos medo de sonhar "agora" e gerirmos as condicionantes da nossa vida. Sobre posições de liderança. A Joana Freitas é membro do Board Executivo na EDP Generation, parte do grupo EDP. As suas responsabilidades incluem Transição Justa do carvão para a energia verde, Desenvolvimento de Negócios, Inovação e Digital, e Sustentabilidade. Tendo passado por organizações como REN, Novo Banco, Ministério das Finanças ou McKinsey, é, também, Vice-Presidente do Comité de Geração e Sustentabilidade da Eurelectric e Cofundadora do Leading Together, que fundou com uma colega de MBA no INSEAD.

Show Notes  This month, Layla and Rob are joined by married co-pastors (and co-parents!) Rici and Phil Skei. Two themes emerged from the conversation. First, Rici shares her testimony of God speaking to her (while driving on the freeway!) about there being no limits on her ministry leadership. Second, the Skeis paint a compelling picture of joyful role flexibility, both in ministry and in the home.     Disclaimer  The opinions expressed in CBE's Mutuality Matters podcast are those of its hosts or guests and do not purport to reflect the opinions or views of CBE International or its members or chapters worldwide. The designations employed in this podcast and the presentation of content therein do not imply the expression of any opinion whatsoever on the part of CBE concerning the legal status of any country, area or territory or of its authorities, or concerning the delimitation of its frontiers.      Bio  Phil and Rici Skei are both natives of Fresno, California. They serve as co-pastors of On Ramps Covenant Church in their downtown Fresno neighborhood. In addition to pastoring alongside Rici, Phil works as the assistant director of planning and development for the City of Fresno where he oversees the development of affordable housing and homeless response. Phil received his bachelor of science degree from CSU Fresno, and his Master of Divinity degree from the Fresno Pacific Biblical Seminary (Fresno, California).  Rici holds a bachelor's degree in psychology and master's degree in education – both from Fresno Pacific University, as well as a master's degree in Christian Formation from North Park Theological Seminary. They are both ordained ministers with the Evangelical Covenant Church and are contributing authors to Out of Nazareth: Christ-Centered Civic Transformation in Unlikely Places. Additionally, Rici published, Let the People Worship, a 40-Day Devotional which is being used throughout the Country as a way to develop and invest in both English-speaking and Spanish-speaking worship leaders and praise teams. Rici and Phil have been married since 2001 and are the proud parents of two beautiful daughters.    Listeners can reach Phil and Rici Skei at:   Phil-Rici Skei on Facebook  @philskei on Twitter   @riciskei, @teamskei and @onrampschurch on Instagram    Other Resources:     My Ordination Story: A Calling Affirmed    Building Confidence in Your Calling: Overcoming the Inner Critic    No More Doubt: How I Finally Embraced My Ministry Calling 

At DesignIntelligence we hold that the most effective leadership leads together. That leadership across the firm, regardless of scope, makes up the leadership energy that drives a firm forward.

In Episode 2 of this mini series ‘Planting with Hayley', we ‘externally process' what it's been and is like to lead together. We are very much working this out as we go and it seems to keep changing with each season we enter. It has proven to be challenging in many ways, and isn't necessarily looking how we thought it would. 

Show Notes:    Enjoying the podcast? Take our survey and help shape the future of Mutuality Matters! Go to cbe.today/podsurvey.     This month, Rev. Elaine May joins Layla and Rob to share a hopeful vision for shared leadership in the context of God's mission. Along the way, she shares a compelling list of practical tips, including emotional health and self-leadership, “gospel humility,” creating leadership pipelines that develop women into leaders, and intentionally modeling fruitful partnerships for the next generation.     Bio:     Rev. Elaine May is a ministry consultant with the Christian Reformed Church in North America. Elaine's consultation work focuses on the development of leaders who partner with God in his redemptive mission. She is graduating from Fuller Theological Seminary with her Doctor of Ministry in Lifelong Leadership Development this Spring. Elaine and her husband Greg have four emerging adults. The family's home base is in Grand Rapids, Michigan.    To connect with Elaine, go to crcna.org/womensleadership.  On Facebook: Elaine Van Til May    Other Resources:    The Experiences of Women in Church and Denominational Leadership    Audio: Creating a Paradigm Shift in Denominational Practice     5 Definitive Signs A Church Is Invested In Women 

Seth Godin, Boardgames, Showing up on the regular & leading together Are you showing up on the regular for those you serve? Choose a game that you are not often distracted from.

Show Notes    This month Layla and Rob chat with Amy and Mac Smith, married campus ministers. The Smiths help us think through the nitty gritty details of partnership in ministry and in marriage. How do they make it work? They're super intentional! Listeners will be inspired (and challenged!) by their example of abundant communication, working through power differentials, being purposeful with modeling, taking gifting seriously, and even resolving conflict publicly!    Disclaimer  The opinions expressed in CBE's Mutuality Matters' podcast are those of its hosts or guests do not purport to reflect the opinions or views of CBE International or its members or chapters worldwide. The designations employed in this podcast and the presentation of content therein do not imply the expression of any opinion whatsoever on the part of CBE concerning the legal status of any country, area or territory or of its authorities, or concerning the delimitation of its frontiers.    Bio    Amy and Mac Smith have been on staff with InterVarsity Christian Fellowship for twenty-five years. Amy is a regional ministry director for InterVarsity in the Rocky Mountain Region and Mac is a senior area ministry director for InterVarsity in Northern Utah. Amy and Mac spent nine years leading ministry in Reno, Nevada, where they built one of the largest InterVarsity chapters in the country and saw hundreds of students come to faith and developed many students into lifelong Christian leaders. In 2007 they moved to Utah where at the time there was just a handful of students on two campuses and now fifteen years later there are over 400 students involved with InterVarsity from every campus in the state of Utah.  Amy and Mac live in Ogden, Utah, with their two boys—Gabe, 17, and Hudson, 14.    If listeners would like to connect…  Mac's email: mac.smith@intervarsity.org  Amy's email: amy.smith@intervarsity.org    Related Resources   Strategies for an Equal Marriage in the Midst of Unequal Career Demands  Women and Men Leading Together: Living as the Beloved Community with Drs. Quentin and Cindy Kinnison  Leading Together: Lessons from Sharing Leadership in Ministry and Marriage 

Show Notes    In this episode, Layla and Rob sit down with Rev. Dr. Erin Moniz and Father Matthew Aughtry to learn about their unique ministry partnership. During the week, Matthew works for Erin, but on the weekend the reverse is true! You'll enjoy hearing Erin and Matthew talk about how a deep and vital friendship, an open-handed view of power, and a healthy dose of communication make their partnership thrive.    Disclaimer  The opinions expressed in CBE's Mutuality Matters' podcast are those of its hosts or guests do not purport to reflect the opinions or views of CBE International or its members or chapters worldwide. The designations employed in this podcast and the presentation of content therein do not imply the expression of any opinion whatsoever on the part of CBE concerning the legal status of any country, area or territory or of its authorities, or concerning the delimitation of its frontiers.    Bio    Filmmaker, priest, and chaplain. Before helping plant All Saints, Fr. Matthew Aughtry served the ACNA at Christ Church Waco and ACNA/C4SO at Resurrection Los Angeles. He works for Baylor University as a chaplain overseeing ministry to artists and working to foster a deeper imagination for God's kingdom through various artistic mediums. He is also a Brehm Scholar in theology and film at Fuller Theological Seminary. He is married to Kathryn and they have two children, Ethan and Lucy Mae. On some weekends they can be found exploring Texas and beyond in their pop-up camper.    Deacon Erin Moniz loves to disciple and create content for emerging adults. As a chaplain at Baylor University, she is active in spiritual formation, mentoring, discipleship, and programming for young adults. She is the co-host for the Mutuality Matters podcast and a trained conciliator. She and her husband, Michael, were married in 2005 and ever since, have been blessed to care for young people and live out the testimony of God's sanctifying work in relationships. When they are not narrating the inner monologue of their two cats, Erin and Michael love to hike, camp, watch movies, and partake of local fare with friends. Find Erin on social media @erinfmoniz, and her personal website is erinfmoniz.com. Sign up for her newsletter on her site!    Learn more about Erin and Matthew and their church ministry by following @allsaintswaco on Instagram.    Other Reading     Together in Ministry: Women and Men in Flourishing Partnerships     Created to Thrive: Cultivating Abuse-Free Communities     (Men & Women Leading Together) Creating Safe and Thriving Mixed-Gender Partnerships    The Unavoidable Link Between Patriarchal Theology and Spiritual Abuse     Theological Malpractice Stands Culpable in Sexual Abuse: Mitch Randall     Kingdom-Based Diversity: Embracing the Priesthood of All Believers 

In this special episode of Mutuality Matters, hosts Layla and Rob interview three gender violence experts to learn how individuals and churches can be intentional about building safe and thriving mixed-gender ministry partnerships. Topics include the language of domestic violence, himpathy, why men batter, and practical steps for accountability and prevention in churches. Listen to this conversation that truly spanned the world, from Australia to the US to Great Britain, and learn how to prevent domestic violence within your community. Created to Thrive contributors highlighted in this episode are Natalie Collins, Chuck Derry, and Nicola (Nicky) Lock.     Guest Bios  Natalie Collins is a gender justice specialist working with a number of organizations in the UK. Natalie speaks and writes on understanding and ending gender injustice nationally and internationally. Learn more at https://www.nataliecollins.info/    Chuck Derry has been involved in efforts to end men's violence against women since 1983. In 1994, he co-founded the Gender Violence Institute in Clearwater, Minnesota, an organization that among other things offers training on the dynamics of domestic violence. Reach Chuck at gvi@frontiernet.net.    Nicola (Nicky) Lock serves as a course coordinator and lecturer in pastoral counseling at St. Mark's National Theological Center in Barton, Australia. Nicky has over 25 years of experience as a counselor, therapist, and educator. Find Nicky on LinkedIn and Facebook.    Other Reading  Created to Thrive 

This fall I'm releasing bonus episodes of The Take Home. No new lectures on leadership, instead I'm sharing the amazing podcasts created by the students in my Leadership for Sport Professionals class.  Today's bonus episode features "Leading Together" produced and created by Mariel Clark, Matthew Jacobe, and Austin Sanders. In a creative podcast format, Mariel, Matthew, and Austin reflect on how what they learned in class is highlighted during their interview with Valerie Alexander, the CEO at Speak Happiness https://www.speakhappiness.com.  During the interview they discuss the importance of a liberal arts education, gendered-leadership expectations, unconscious bias, and the importance of feeling fulfilled in the workplace. And I think you'll love the penguin analogy, the metaphor for swimming with the current, and the Jackie Robinson standard. Valerie is a phenomenal guest and I hope you enjoy the episode!  I would be grateful if you'd let me know what you think at @TingleJK. Credits: Music used in Leading Together: "Creative Minds" by BenSound. The podcast cover photo is of a Dale Grimshaw mural and was taken by Jacob near the Tybalds Estate in WC1, London, England. The intro music is "Be My Guest" by Crowander. "My underground" by Distemper is the closing credits music. 

This month on the “Women and Men Leading Together” thread, hosts Layla and Rob speak with Bette Dickinson, an artist, and author who paints a beautiful picture of women and men partnering together in ministry, and of a church that listens to both the mother and father voices of God. Come learn from Bette as she exhorts us to systemic change, intentionally developing women, male advocacy, and elevating the stories of women.      Bio:    Bette Dickinson is a prophetic artist, writer, and speaker who invites audiences to connect with God through visual parables of the spiritual journey in her ministry Awakening the Soul. Bette earned her MDiv with an emphasis in pastoral studies and has worked with ministries like InterVarsity Christian Fellowship, World Vision, Infinitum, and Kensington Church to awaken the soul through beauty and wonder. Bette and her husband live in Traverse City, Michigan, with their two boys.    Further Reading:    Making Room in Advent by Bette Dickinson   https://www.ivpress.com/making-room-in-advent    More from Bette Dickinson: https://collegiateministries.intervarsity.org/profile/bette-dickinson    To subscribe to Bette's newsletter and receive a copy of her painting of Mary's Magnificat along with an audio reflection, text justice to 33777.  

This month on the “Women and Men Leading Together” thread, Rob and Layla speak with Sarah Cowan Johnson, ministry leader, and recently published author of Teach Your Children Well. From navigating unconscious biases to dealing with miss-titling, from egalitarian parenting to The X-Files, Sarah sheds light on what flourishing mixed-gender partnerships look like, both in the context of ministry and in the home!     Bio:   Sarah Cowan Johnson is a ministry trainer, consultant, and coach who works with church planters, pastors, and ministry leaders across the United States. She leads seminars for parents on family discipleship to help their children walk in the way of Jesus. She served with the Evangelical Covenant Church as an executive pastor and previously was a staff trainer and an area director for InterVarsity Christian Fellowship. She is the cohost of The People of the Way podcast. Her book, Teach Your Children Well, was published this month by InterVarsity Press, and she and her husband have two sons and live in Providence. Find more from Sarah at her website, sarahcowanjohnson.com.    Other Reading  The Spiritually Vibrant Home, by Don Everts  Call Me Mother in Anglican Compass by Tish Harrison Warren  “Parenting as Partners” by Kathy Nesper  “Created for Life Together: Partnerships Between Men and Women Are Part of God's Design” by Ruth Haley Barton   

Marriage is ministry, but has anyone ever noticed how many issues you have when you and your husband make up your mind to start leading together? Warfare is real, ya'll, which is why I was so grateful when I stumbled across Courtnaye's YouTube Video with her husband.We are so much more confident when we do the work behind the scenes so I'm grateful Courtnaye and Calvin blessed us with their wisdom and insight. Today, they're helping my husband and me to choose to lead with integrity all over again.Listen in for help answering:What strategies should a couple follow when they encounter increased spiritual warfare connected to their Kingdom assignment?How do you wait on your spouse to receive confirmation about a Kingdom assignment you received?What are the benefits of waiting on your spouse to receive confirmation?How does Courtnaye do all the things?How do you balance your attraction to opportunity?What should you do to protect your home from competition?Click here for the show notes, and get all the details on recommendations, giveaways, and sponsors!Here's the Confident Collaborations QuizI also have a coupon code available to my subscribers who are looking to build a beautiful, new website that will help you grow more confident about communicating your message. Click Here to Find Out More.

Dalia Zatlin, Executive and Life Coach, joins Yo as guest to discuss different aspects of women's leadership. Dalia discusses and gives is all ideas on how to be our own CEO by authoring our own story. She discusses some of her work in the Leadership Legacy and Executive Development Programs she is engaged in. She offers lots of creative solutions to some of issues facing all of us in our lives that is best for us. Some of the key sayings she brings us are: · Practice makes many possible not perfect. · The fish stinks from its head. · Instead of giving feedback let's give feed-forward. · Instead of “Lunch and Learn” try “Lunch and Do”! Here are the questions we explored, some of which are very challenging to our basic beliefs: · How have women helped and not helped other women? · How can we reframe the belief “women are emotional” to “women are passionate”? · What kind of steps can one take to reenter the workforce? · Do women contribute to their own glass ceiling? Here are the different articles we mentioned for your own research: Power Of The Pack: Women Who Support Women Are More Successful Despite Culturally Ingrained Stereotypes, Women Are Not More Emotional Than Men 9 Tips on How To Find Your Passion In Life. Do Women Create Their Own Glass Ceilings? Previous Episodes: Ep 6 Performance Appraisals Ep 9 Leading on Purpose Ep 13 Fearless Leadership Ep.19 Diversity, Belonging, Equity More about Dalia: As an Executive Coach: Dalia helps businesses achieve their goals through effective leadership and communication to elevate their organization's performance and productivity. She designs and executes strategies that map leadership vision and core values to specific business objectives and company initiatives. She provides customized leadership plans, assess, design, and deliver organizational and leadership development solutions for Executives, VPs and Directors with a focus on corporate culture. The biggest impact she makes with leaders is coaching executives on how to align their core values with actions & behaviors to assure a positive and healthy work environment. As a life coach: She help people become empowered to be the CEOs of their Lives - She works with individuals on how to adopt a success mindset and leverage their strengths to achieve their goals. She successfully applies the coaching paradigms she uses with leaders to help individuals master the behaviors which lead to feeling personally empowered and successful professionally. How you can contact Dalia: dalia@findmystorycoach.com How to reach Yo: yo@yocanny.com My Linktree: https://linktr.ee/yocanny FB Group: "Girl, Take the Lead!"

On this episode of Mutuality Matters: Women & Men Leading Together, hosts Layla and Rob learn from Drs. Quentin and Cindy Kinnison. Listen as the Kinnisons share how they have overcome barriers on their journeys toward a conviction that power is meant to be shared between women and men. They give us a window into what flourishing mixed-gender ministry partnerships can look like in academia and cast a vision for living as the beloved community of God.     Bio   Dr. Quentin Kinnison is an Associate Professor of Christian Ministry & Leadership and the Program Director for Christian Ministry & Leadership at Fresno Pacific University  Dr. Cynthia Kinnison is Adjunct Faculty and the Christian Ministry & Leadership Internship Supervisor at Fresno Pacific University    Other Reading:     How to Use Male Privilege to Create Space and Opportunities for Women in Churches:  https://www.cbeinternational.org/resource/article/mutuality-blog-magazine/how-use-male-privilege-create-space-and-opportunities  Created for Community and Mutuality: Created for Community and Mutuality | CBE (cbeinternational.org) 

Key leadership traits to attract talented people: empathy, authenticity, and personal valuesThe Agenda podcast series uncovers what it takes for leaders to build trust and inspire people. In this podcast, Co-Founder and CEO of DeepSkill, Miriam Mertens, speaks with former BBC interviewer, Nisha Pillai, about human centric leadership and the key leadership traits: empathy, authenticity, and personal values, which help to attract talented people to organisations. For more podcasts, stay connected at podcast.sherpany.comThe Agenda is brought to you by Sherpany #LeadingTogether

On becoming a good steward of people's time, and getting more from meetingsThe Agenda podcast series uncovers what it takes for leaders to build trust and inspire people. In this podcast, renowned meeting scientist, Prof. Dr. Steven Rogelberg, speaks with former BBC interviewer, Nisha Pillai, about the science and potential of meetings. For more podcasts, stay connected at podcast.sherpany.comThe Agenda is brought to you by Sherpany #LeadingTogether

Join hosts Layla and Rob as they speak with Matt and Bekah Meyer as they share about their partnership as a married couple on staff with InterVarsity Link serving in Sarajevo, Bosnia and Herzegovina. The Meyers invite us into the dynamics of working in a patriarchal, cross-cultural context while holding an egalitarian conviction. How do they make that work practically? Listen to find out!     Bio  Matt and Bekah Meyer have been partnering together in ministry as a married couple for more than 10 years. Currently, they serve with InterVarsity Link in Sarajevo, Bosnia and Herzegovina, where they are raising their two amazing daughters, Hannah and Junia. In addition, Matt is a second-year PhD student in New Testament at the University of Aberdeen.   

Bryan Sims is the author of Leading Together: The Holy Possibility of Harmony and Synergy in the Face of Change.  He is also a coach with Spiritual Leadership Inc. and a professor at Asbury Theological Serminary.In this episode, Bryan Sims discusses the importance of shared leadership.  As we lead through these challenging times, leaders need to be able to bring people together—to draw on all our gifts and talents and knowledge.  We are called to lead healthy teams of people in order to fully participate in God's mission in the world.  We cannot do it alone.THIS EPISODE'S HIGHLIGHTS INCLUDE:Bryan Sims is the author of Leading Together: The Holy Possibility of Harmony and Synergy in the Face of Change and is a coach with Spiritual Leadership Inc. and a professor at Asbury Theological Seminary.Bryan Sims explains that healthy leadership requires working together and harmony among those that are working together, especially as we are living in times of disequilibrium.Disequilibrium creates a space of high possibility.Bryan Sims explains what he means by “technical challenges” and “adaptive challenges.”Covid has been a time of intense adaptive challenge.Overcoming adaptive challenges requires shared leadership.Shared leadership can involve staff, church members, and even people outside the church or organization.Kenosis is the Greek word that captures the self-emptying nature of Jesus.  Healthy church leadership, according to Bryan Sims, also kenotic in nature.  Controlling and manipulating is the opposite of kenosis.Bryan Sims demonstrates the early church exhibited kenotic shared leadership because they learned that kind of leadership from Jesus.Adaptive shared leadership is actually quite pastoral.Bryan Sims, in his work, asks a really important question:  How do we discern what God is doing and how do we join God in that?Bryan Sims suggests that every leader needs a coach, a spiritual director, and a counselor.For leaders wanting to engage in shared leadership, Bryan Sims suggests finding a person with whom they can process their leadership challenges.RELEVANT RESOURCES AND LINKS:Bryan Sims:Website – www.bryandsims.comChurch Leadership Inc.:Website - www.spiritual-leadership.orgBooks mentioned:Leading Together, by Bryan SimsSurfing the Edge of Chaos, by Richard Pascale, Mark Milleman, and Linda GiojaCanoeing the Mountains, by Tod BolsingerCLICK HERE to sign up for the Church Leadership Institute newsletter.

In this episode, hosts Layla and Rob speak with Kim and Andrew Feil about their journeys to mutuality. In-laws Kim and Andrew Feil have each been on a journey of understanding the Bible's message of gender equality through a combination of deep Bible study and lived experience. More than that, their journeys have intertwined together in a compelling way. Listen as they tell Layla and Rob about those journeys, the struggles they faced, and where they ended up. Don't miss the end of the episode, where Andrew and Kim share prophetic words about how the church needs to change to better reflect God's heart for equality. Kim Feil resides in Fresno, California, and she actually loves living there! She is the mother of two children and the wife to an amazing guy for almost 13 years. Kim is passionate about the empowerment of women and seeing them become who God created them to be. Her daytime job is working at the local community hospital as a lactation specialist. She is also a volunteer, working with survivors of human trafficking.   Email: kimberlyruth.feil@gmail.com Andrew Feil is a father of four boys and is married to Denise Feil. Andrew is the current Associate Director at Every Neighborhood Partnership which seeks to connect churches to serving at elementary schools in one of California's most challenged districts. Andrew is a former Missions Pastor at The Well Community Church and has a master's in Social and Civic Entrepreneurship from Bakke Graduate University. Twitter: @andrewsfeil  Email: andrew@everyneighborhood.org  Other Reading Jesus Feminist by Sarah Bessy: https://cbeinternational.christianbook.com/jesus-feminist-sarah-bessey/9781476717258/pd/717258?event=ESRCG  The Blue Parakeet by Scot McKnight: https://cbeinternational.christianbook.com/parakeet-rethinking-read-bible-second-edition/scot-mcknight/9780310538929/pd/538929?event=ESRCQ How I Changed My Mind About Women in Leadership by Alan F. Johnson (Ed.) https://cbeinternational.christianbook.com/leadership-compelling-prominent-evangelicals-unabridged-audiobook/9780310577478/pd/DA14789-CP?event=ESRCG

In this episode, we are joined by our friend Eddy Ekmekji. Eddy serves as a pastor in Southern California and he helps us think about how to guide a community through the disciple-making process. If you're in a faith community where your egalitarian conviction can struggle to be expressed fully, this is the episode for you! Bio: Eddy Ekmekji has served with InterVarsity Christian Fellowship since 1998, ministering in a variety of roles and on a diversity of campuses. Currently, he is the Regional Ministry Director in Greater Los Angeles. In addition to the work with InterVarsity, Eddy also serves part-time as the lead pastor of As You Are Missionary Church in Reseda, CA.  Eddy is married to Rhoda, and dad to Layla (16), Marco (14), and Liam (9). He loves roasting his own coffee beans, making his own hot sauce, and coaching a local BU14 soccer team. You can find him on twitter, @eddyekmekji.

In this episode Dr. Bryan Sims talks about his new book on adaptive and spiritual leadership–Leading Together: The Holy Possibility of Harmony and Synergy in the Face of Change Purchase a copy of Brian's New book Leading Together: https://amzn.to/3hZADN9 Books  Recommended by Dr. Bryan Sims: Ronald Heifetz Leadership without Easy Answers https://amzn.to/3owZPLT   Robert Quinn, Change the World: How Ordinary People can Achieve Extraordinary Results https://amzn.to/3iWbvGZ  The Arbinger Institute Anatomy of Peace https://amzn.to/39sAqOZ   and Leadership and Self-Deception https://amzn.to/3j5Xcja    Ted Bolsinger Canoeing the Mountains https://amzn.to/3iWzgyD and Tempered Resilience: How Leaders Are Formed in the Crucible of Change https://amzn.to/3oBvlIQ     Connect with Dr. Bryan Sims: LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/bryan-sims-20497524/ Web: http://www.bryandsims.com/    Brian's Materials Read Brian's Book: Centering Prayer: Sitting Quietly in God's Presence Can Change Your Life https://amzn.to/2S0AcIZ or sign up for information: www.centeringprayerbook.com (Re)Aligning with God: Reading Scripture for Church and World (Cascade Books) https://amzn.to/30tP4S9 Invitation: A Bible Study to Begin With (Seedbed) https://my.seedbed.com/product/onebook-invitation-by-brian-russell/ Connecting with Brian: Website: www.brianrussellphd.com Twitter: @briandrussell Instagram: @yourprofessorforlife Deep Dive Spirituality Coaching for Pastors: www.deepdivespirituality.com Interested in coaching or inviting Brian to speak or teach for your community of faith or group? Email: deepdivespirituality@gmail.com Links to Amazon are Affiliate links. If you purchase items through these links, Amazon returns a small percentage of the sale to Brian Russell. This supports the podcast and does not increase the price of the items you may choose to buy. Thank you for your support. #adaptiveleadership #leadership #spiritualformation

Why leaders should listen to understand before they talk so that people followThe Agenda podcast series uncovers the path leaders take from challenge to decision. In this podcast, leadership author, speaker and consultant, Emmanuel Gobillot, speaks with former BBC interviewer, Nisha Pillai, about ways for leaders to listen so that they understand before they talk, and ways to make people stronger and more capable. For more podcasts, stay connected at podcast.sherpany.com The Agenda is brought to you by Sherpany #Leading Together

Lifespan versus health-span: Introducing wellbeing as a core competency in organisationsThe Agenda podcast series uncovers the path leaders take from challenges to decisions. In this podcast, Co-Founder of Bodyshot Performance Limited, Leanne Spencer speaks about how to embed wellbeing in your organisation.For more podcasts, stay connected at podcast.sherpany.com The Agenda is brought to you by Sherpany #Leading Together

The need to shift perspective when understanding the challenges of othersThe Agenda podcast series uncovers the path leaders take from challenge to decision. In this podcast, CMO of Deutsche Bahn, Jürgen Kornmann speaks about the value of psychological safety. The episode is recorded in German and includes a transcript. Watch the full episode containing subtitles in English on Sherpany's Youtube channel. For more podcasts, stay connected at podcast.sherpany.com  The Agenda is brought to you by Sherpany #Leading Together

Developing a strong culture and leading by example: Why meetings are central to building trustThe Agenda podcast series uncovers the path leaders take from challenge to decision. In this podcast, Tobias Häckermann, CEO of Sherpany, speaks about how meetings are central to building trust. For more podcasts, stay connected at podcast.sherpany.com  The Agenda is brought to you by Sherpany #Leading Together

Empowering leaders to be agents of change: The courage to plunge into the unknownThe Agenda podcast series uncovers the path leaders take from challenge to decision. In this podcast, Carsten Sudhoff, entrepreneur and member of the Management Team von Rundstedt Switzerland, speaks about the courage to plunge into the unknown. For more podcasts, stay connected at podcast.sherpany.com  The Agenda is brought to you by Sherpany #Leading Together

On how to gain trust and build a dream team: Why every leader needs a sparring partnerThe Agenda podcast series uncovers the path leaders take from challenge to decision. In this podcast, Susanne Ruoff, CEO & Owner Ruoff Advisory GmbH, speaks about ways to gain trust and build great teams. For more podcasts, stay connected at podcast.sherpany.com  The Agenda is brought to you by Sherpany #Leading Together

On expanding one's horizons through experiences: Good leaders know that a job is better done than perfectThe Agenda podcast series uncovers the path leaders take from challenge to decision. In this podcast, former Chairman of PostFinance and chairman and member of several other boards, Prof. Dr. Rolf Watter speaks about doing things better rather than perfect. For more podcasts, stay connected at podcast.sherpany.com The Agenda is brought to you by Sherpany #Leading Together

Managing expectations with honesty: How to create a safe environment that encourages people to speak upThe Agenda podcast series uncovers the path leaders take from challenge to decision. In this podcast, former CEO of McKinsey Switzerland, Christian Casal speaks about ways to encourage people to speak up. For more podcasts, stay connected at podcast.sherpany.com  The Agenda is brought to you by Sherpany #Leading Together

On avoiding distractions and patiently explaining the obvious: Getting people to follow youThe Agenda podcast series uncovers the path leaders take from challenge to decision. In this podcast, former CEO of the Zuger Kantonalbank in Switzerland, Pascal Niquille talks about avoiding distractions, and getting people to follow you. For more podcasts, stay connected at podcast.sherpany.com  The Agenda is brought to you by Sherpany #Leading Together

Today's leaders should not travel alone. It is better to endure the leadership adventure with friends. Tracy and Chris offer their thoughts on learning together. Their previous podcast conversations with Jon Campbell, Graham Maxwell, and Ron McCants are examples of learning from the stories of others. Leaders need plans, but leaders also need to make needed changes. Vision must include adjusting and adapting. New methods of leading can teach new lessons. As you take the next step and hope to make it your best step, remember the importance of time and trust. Invest time. Build trust. And take the next steps during this season of your leadership journey.  

In this episode Dr. Bryan Sims reflects on what adaptive and spiritual leadership looks like today.  Bio:  Bryan Sims has worked since 2001 as a Leadership and Organizational Change Coach with SLI where he has trained and coached leaders, teams, churches, and organizations over extended periods of time to bring spiritual awakening and missional effectiveness. He has coached in Anglican, Methodist, Free Methodist, Wesleyan, Baptist, Presbyterian, and non-denominational settings.   Bryan has also been a professor of Leadership and Lay Equipping at Asbury Theological Seminary since 2011. His teaching expertise relates to team leadership, equipping, leading change, adaptive spiritual leadership, and the link between leadership and discipleship.   Bryan is a graduate of West Texas A&M University (1998) and Asbury Theological Seminary (M.Div., 2003) and has a Ph. D. in Organizational Leadership from Regent University (2009). He is author of Leading Together: in Christ, with one another, through our greatest challenges (100M Publishing, 2021) and has a authored a chapter in Leadership the Wesleyan Way (Emeth Press, 2016). Books Recommended by Dr. Bryan Sims: Ronald Heifetz Leaderships without Easy Answers https://amzn.to/3owZPLT  Robert Quinn, Change the World: How Ordinary People can Achieve Extraordinary Results https://amzn.to/3iWbvGZ  The Arbinger Institute Anatomy of Peace https://amzn.to/39sAqOZ  and Leadership and Self-Deception https://amzn.to/3j5Xcja  Ted Bolsinger Canoeing the Mountains https://amzn.to/3iWzgyD and Tempered Resilience: How Leaders Are Formed in the Crucible of Change https://amzn.to/3oBvlIQ   Connect with Dr. Bryan Sims: LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/bryan-sims-20497524/ Web: http://www.bryandsims.com/  Connect with Brian Russell: Twitter: @briandrussell Instagram: @yourprofessorforlife Coaching for Pastors: www.deepdivespirituality.com Business and Life Coaching: www.drbrianrussellcoaching.com Brian Russell's Book on the Missional Interpretation of Scripture: (Re)Aligning with God: Reading Scripture for Church and World https://amzn.to/3qln258   Links to Amazon are affiliate links. Dr. Russell receives a small payment if you order resources through these links. There is no additional cost to you. Thank you for supporting the podcast through your purchases.