Podcasts about agreed

Share on
Share on Facebook
Share on Twitter
Share on Reddit
Copy link to clipboard
  • 499PODCASTS
  • 639EPISODES
  • 37mAVG DURATION
  • 5WEEKLY NEW EPISODES
  • Jan 17, 2022LATEST

POPULARITY

20122013201420152016201720182019202020212022


Best podcasts about agreed

Latest podcast episodes about agreed

The Healthy Balanced Mama Podcast
The Gut-Hormone Connection with Lahana Vigliano, board certified clinical nutritionist

The Healthy Balanced Mama Podcast

Play Episode Listen Later Jan 17, 2022 70:43


Lahana Vigliano joins me today to discuss the fascinating connection between gut health and balanced hormones.  She shares why the simple question "why?" can be so powerful in identifying what is going on in your body when something feels off. Often, the answer has something to do with your gut!Lahana holds a Bachelor of Nutrition Science degree and is almost finished with her Masters of Human Nutrition and Functional Medicine. As you'll  hear during our interview,  this wife and mama of two  is passionate about women's health!It's incredibly  empowering when you can get to the root cause of any health issues you are experiencing, which starts with understanding what is going on in your body. Learning the power that food and our lifestyle choices have on gut health and hormones balance is key! I couldn't agree more with Lahana's philosophy that there is not just one way to approach our health when it comes to balancing hormones and gut health. All bodies are unique and what helps will vary from person to person.  Agreed! Today we chat about: how hormones impact anxiety and PMSthe role gut health plays in hormones and our moodthe simple things we can do improve hormonal imbalances how healing your gut can heal your hormones and how everything is interconnectedthe power of starting with the basics when trying to heal your gut Connect with Lahana: WebsiteInstagramFree Hormone Balance GuideConnect with me:WebsiteInstagramCooking ClassesJoin the Healthy Balanced Mamas Facebook CommunityHead to http://www.healthymamakris.com/mealplanner to get yours!

Blunt Force Truth
Biden Incompetence by Design? – an Interview with Scott Shepard

Blunt Force Truth

Play Episode Listen Later Jan 10, 2022 66:51


Today's show rundown: Nancy Pelosi is at it again, this time it is the 14th amendment that they are trying to use to keep people out of office. She is claiming that because she believes Trump was involved with “The Insurrection” that due to section 3 of the 14th amendment, he could be banned from running for office again. Mark does not believe for a moment that Chuck has NO interest in dating AOC, who believes everyone is md at her because they want to date her. Has Nancy Pelosi actually ever enforced or lived to her oath of office in her career? Do you think this tactic will work? Shutting down all the republicans because they would be labeled “traitors or terrorists”. This was a Civil War era addition, in order to keep radical confederates from running for office. Schmeck…calls NORAD for a Santa Claus update…instead, he gets the President taking live phone calls from the NORAD Christmas line. So, Mr. Schmeck, who was expecting to hear a phone recorder, got Biden. Schmeck ends the call with a “Let's go Brandon” …to which the President AGREED…and said Yeah…lets go Brandon”. It is safe to say, that The President of the United States is not right in the head. Scott Shepard is a fellow at the National Center as well as the director of the National Center's Free Enterprise Project, the conservative movement's only full-service shareholder activism and education program. Scott has taught at law schools including the Wake Forest School of Law in North Carolina and the Willamette University College of Law in Oregon. He is the author of the legal textbook Wills, Trusts and Estates in Context. He previously served as a policy director with the Yankee Institute in Connecticut and the manager of the Water Law Project at the Pacific Legal Institute. He also has experience in government and private practice. Scott earned his Juris Doctorate from the University of Virginia, a master's degree from Vanderbilt University and a Bachelor of Arts degree from the University of Richmond. https://nationalcenter.org/ https://nationalcenter.org/ncppr/2021/12/14/biden-incompetence-by-design/ https://hypnotisingbook.com/ https://worldmission.cc/donate-humanitarianoutreach/

BJ Shea Daily Experience Podcast -- Official
Universally agreed upon A-Hole moves

BJ Shea Daily Experience Podcast -- Official

Play Episode Listen Later Jan 4, 2022 6:39


BuzzFeed put together a list of annoying things that jerks do and they called them “universally agreed upon A-Hole moves”.  See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

SBS Hebrew - אס בי אס בעברית
The Omicron variant continues to spread like wildfire across the globe,,,. National Cabinet agreed to redefine the meaning of "close contact"... SBS Latest update in Hebrew

SBS Hebrew - אס בי אס בעברית

Play Episode Listen Later Jan 2, 2022 5:49


The Omicron variant continues to spread like wildfire across the globe,,,. National Cabinet agreed to redefine the meaning of "close contact"... SBS Latest update in Hebrew

Shine
Purposeful Leadership with Leticia Van Splunteren

Shine

Play Episode Listen Later Dec 28, 2021 50:16


Welcome to the final episode of the SHINE podcast for 2021. This podcast always focuses on the science, spiritual perspective and application of conscious, inclusive leadership, the recipe for high performing teams, and awareness practices that you can cultivate to be the kind of leader our world needs now. In this last episode of 2021 we are going out with fireworks. Our topic for today is purposeful leadership with my friend and colleague Leticia Van Splunteren. In this interview Leticia speaks vulnerably about how she navigated 2020 & 2021 as a CEO and mother, how she took on the priority of motherhood and well being first so that she could bring a strong, passionate and purpose to her leadership and life. She also shares some of the important mindsets and inner game tools she relies on to be a conscious inclusive leader at work and in the world. Lastly, there is a very special invitation that Leticia has for you. This interview has many valuable tips for you to bring your best and whole self to your life. Thank you for listening.   SHINE Links:   Leading from Wholeness Executive Coaching Leading from Wholeness Learning and Development Resources Shine: Ignite Your Inner Game to Lead Consciously at Work and in the World by Carley Hauck Contact Carley Hauck Book Carley for speaking Sign up for the Podcast! Carley on LinkedIn   BACK2BASICS Experience Leticia Latino Leticia on LinkedIn   The Imperfect Shownotes   0:01 Carley Hauck   Hi, welcome to the SHINE podcast. My name is Carley Hauck and I am your host. This podcast focuses on the science, spiritual perspective and application of conscious, inclusive leadership, the recipe for high performing teams, and awareness practices that you can cultivate to be the kind of leader our world needs now. I facilitate two to three episodes a month.   And before I tell you about our topic today, please go over to Apple podcasts, hit the subscribe button so you don't miss any future episodes as we move into 2022 and if you love this episode, or any of our previous SHINE episodes, please write a positive review and share with folks. It helps so much. Thank you.   This is the last episode of the season, season five, the last episode of 2021 and we are going out with a big light fireworks. Our topic for today is purposeful leadership, with my friend and colleague Leticia Van Splunteren. In this interview Leticia speaks vulnerably with me about how she navigated 2020 as a CEO and mother, how she took on the priority of motherhood and well being first so that she could bring a strong, passionate and purpose to her leadership and life.   She also shares some of the important mindsets and inner game tools she relies on to be a conscious inclusive leader at work and in the world. Lastly, there is a very special invitation that Leticia has for you. So you want to definitely listen to the end of the episode.   Leticia is the CEO of Neptuno, USA. Neptuno is a worldwide telecommunications infrastructure with several patented tower designs of applied three dimensional technology to site surveys and tower mapping. This is a family owned business. And in the midst of the pandemic, so many small businesses had to close their doors, but this particular business was able to stay afloat and you're gonna want to learn how they did that. The company has created telecom assets, virtual libraries, has helped develop telecom management software and is taking an active role in the Smart Cities movement. Leticia is an author, a mom, a sister, a wife, a CEO, a podcaster. I have been so grateful to meet this amazing human, and I can't wait to share her story of conscious inclusive leadership with you.   3:13 Carley Hauck   Hello, Leticia. I am so excited to have you on the SHINE podcast today. Thank you for joining.   3:21 Leticia Van Splunteren   Thank you, Carley . Thanks so much for having me.   3:23 Carley Hauck   You're so welcome. Well, I wanted to start off with the question. What does conscious and inclusive leadership and business mean to you?   3:38 Leticia Van Splunteren   That's a rich question. There's so much there. But you know, the first thing that comes to mind is, of course, conscious business. For me, being conscious means being present, being in the moment of what I do, but also doing what's best for the greater good and doing things and engaging in things and in business that, you know, has a positive impact in the world. And, you know, being given everybody the same opportunities, not even noticing who is doing what, that to me is being inclusive.   4:16 Carley Hauck   Mm hmm. Wonderful answer and why is that important to you as a leader as a CEO yourself?   4:24 Leticia Van Splunteren   Well, you know, I currently work for the family business. I worked in it for 20 years now. So I think that when you work in the family business, it gives you a consciousness level that maybe harder to achieve when you work for a big corporation because the soul of the company, it's almost like the soul of your family. And that's how I see our company. So, you know, treating everybody with humanity, being compassionate, being generous in your work and in your company. That's, you know, to me, it's part of what we call consciousness because this creates ripple effects. And that's why it's important to me.   5:07 Carley Hauck Right back care, the soul of the family. Yeah, I like some of the terms that you just used. And being that we've been in this pandemic, you know, world where so many of us are still working from home. Worldwide, it's been over a year and a half now, what have been some of the bigger challenges for you, as a leader, as the CEO of this company? Love to hear.   5:40 Leticia Van Splunteren   Yeah, well, it definitely has been challenging. I joked around with my friends. And they know, I'm not someone that overwhelms easily. But I remember at the very beginning of the pandemic, I was very, very overwhelmed. And mostly, I have still young kids, 11, and seven. And so to have to manage, you know, the company and the impact you will have in the company, and we're in the telecommunications industry. So that's something that I think by now, we can all agree if we hadn't had the infrastructure and the networks, and I'm not going to get very technical, but everybody can relate. If we couldn't have that Zoom session open for our kids and for work, we would have lived through a very different pandemic. So the telecommunications workforce was deemed essential for the very first time in March last year, which I consider we've always been an essential workforce.   But this really made the point. And that means also that in terms of our companies, companies providing telecommunications in general, you know, we were under a lot of stress to deliver, you know, the services and infrastructure that can keep the world connected. And so that poses a lot of challenges. And then, of course, making sure that your employees understood, at least our employees understood that to us safety was first and we weren't going to get anybody in harm's way. And so we have a lot of international traveling for our crews that do work abroad. So of course, we had projects that stopped people not being able to travel. So it was hard. But I think just going, as I say back to basics, and making sure that everybody knew that the basics to us was being healthy, keeping everybody safe, and doing whatever we could do with the resources and situation we were given. So I was trying to do that both at work, and in my personal life. And but yeah, it was very challenging.   7:48 Carley Hauck   And so, you know, it sounds like what was most difficult was just the feelings of overwhelm, and not potentially knowing how to navigate this very uncertain, complex, ambiguous time. And was there anything more specifically that like, maybe you could even point to that has been more challenging for you to navigate in 2021.   8:17 Leticia Van Splunteren   During this year, well, in 2020, just in case I wasn't specific enough, mostly was put in also the kids in front, everything else, because you understood that once they couldn't go back to school, they were at the biggest, you know, we had the biggest uncertainty there and they had to adapt. I had a six year old at the time that had to learn to use the Zoom, and the computer and they had sessions, and you had to be on top of that. Otherwise, you couldn't get them through the school day. Although that was very challenging. And as a CEO, of course, I was staying late and doing everything I could for the company as well. But I had to consciously say, the most important role right now that I have is as a mom. I really felt that and I felt of course communicating with the teams and the company, you know, but the human aspect definitely was the biggest one in 2021. Because we transitioned, you know, the school, the kids slowly returned to school, we got into different patterns and rhythm and pace. I could focus more on the company again, and then started moving because we have as you know, you know, a few months there that compared to our normal pace, it was extremely slow. So you could really kind of pick and choose where you were going to put the attention because we were on emergency mode and this year has been more about okay, now you have different components of how your business did and of course not many businesses achieved their goals or executed their business plans as designed. So it's been a lot of pivoting and just being creative into how to tackle post pandemic world scenario.   10:04 Carley Hauck   Thank you. So what I heard was that in 2020, you know, being a mom was the first priority for you. And as a woman leader, you probably know that in 2020, we had such a huge number, almost 3 million women that had to leave the workforce. Many that were in leadership positions like yourself, because they couldn't navigate work at home, because of the experience, you were just sharing of really needing to make the family and the children that priority. And we need to have women at the top to really create more equity and to make sure that all voices are being heard, and very important decisions for our workplace in our world. And so what allowed you to really be able to straddle both of those in the midst of 2020, that you were able to continue to lead in the way that you were, but you were also able to prioritize motherhood and your children?   11:14 Leticia Van Splunteren   Well, that's an excellent question. And it's kind of a sad answer that I'm going to give. But the truth is, that's where owning your own business makes a difference, you're not going to get fired by doing what you feel is right, the company's gonna take a hit for sure, because you are not, you know, going at the same pace. But at the same time, I think leaders and managers, sometimes they hold very unrealistic expectations. So I think last year, a lot of leaders that thought the business was going to grow substantially unless you sold, you know, hand sanitizer, or anything that is related to COVID is extremely hard.   So there's two options, you can either keep working extremely hard and almost inefficiently, because expecting a certain type of result is almost very unrealistic. Or you say, Yes, we're going to take a hit. This is what I can expect out of this situation, but I'm going to put my attention into, you know, what I think deserves it more. So when you own your own company, you get the benefit to make those decisions. If you work for the same corporate American, you have a boss or a type of leadership that doesn't understand that. That's very difficult to do. And that's unfortunately, why we lost so much ground. And I say we because I'm a big diversity and inclusion advocate. That, you know, it is very sad to see that when it boils down and you have to choose between family and work, I think it is just, you know, human nature, especially for the mother that eats you know, the nurturer eats. You know, this is no secret when one of the two in a couple has to take and make a sacrifice on behalf of the kids. I would say there's extraordinary men out there, but it's usually the woman that's gonna make the sacrifice.   13:08 Carley Hauck   Nope, Agreed. Agreed. Thank you. So, in 2021, I heard you say that it's, it's been a little easier to navigate, because you're not in emergency mode. And yet, I know that there are likely qualities and skills that you possess on the inside what we often refer to as the inner game skills on this podcast, since that's been a big part of the book that I wrote and came out this year SHINE and also is a larger part of the body of work that I've been bringing to leaders and companies. But the inner game really directs our outer game.   And so what were some of the internal resources, quality skills that supported you to be the kind of leader mom and person you want to be in these times?   14:05 Leticia Van Splunteren   That's a great question. And I'll take a moment to say I've read your book. And I think it's fantastic. You did a great, great job there. There's so many important points that I enjoyed and resonated with me in your book.   14:25 Carley Hauck   Thank you.   14:27 Leticia Van Splunteren   Yeah. And so one of the things and I know you're a meditator, I have to say in terms of inner game, I think the ingredients have been there in me, I've been on a personal growth path for quite so many years now. And I'm an avid reader, I'm always reading a book and it's usually about self development. But meditation is something I had been, you know, romancing with for a long time. And I have to say, I owe it to the pandemic that provided me with a more, let's say, a predictable schedule because I travel a lot for work.   And so by being home all the time I could really fit it in, and it was my lifeline to find a, you know, 15 minutes to meditate. And it really helped me put my mind at peace, trust in the situation because as, as we say, it's very, very scary to go through what we went through all of us went through last year not knowing, you know, what's gonna happen and what the, you know, the well being of our families, etc. So I guess I use meditation a lot to kind of channel all the things that were important to me and get to that realization of, you know, we're gonna be okay, we have food, we are at home, we are lucky to be together. And so just keeping the focus into what's important was very key to me. And everything else, you know, the company, the projects that are not happening, the money you're not making, you know, that's the outer game, as you say, in your book, that sold things you can, you know, live without, but the most basic needs were being covered. So I tried to focus on those. And we were in a lucky position that both my husband and I were, you know, able to work from home.   And, you know, I have a lot of sympathy for those people whose job depends on being out and about. And, you know, we paid our nanny for the entire time that the pandemic happened without her having to come because they say, you know, we still have a job, it's not like we lost our jobs. So to take away that income from her because she's not coming to work. And she's not guilty that she cannot come to work, I just didn't feel good with that. And so it was hard, because no one likes to pay money, when you're not receiving the service, I was cooking, cleaning, I was having all the extra work, but just, you know, doing with what makes you feel good in your heart that I think is the key to the to my own inner game, if there's something that, you know, if I do it, and it creates those bad butterflies, what I call in my heart in my stomach, then I know I'm not aligned with my inner game.   17:08 Carley Hauck   Hmm, wonderful answer, I loved hearing that. So really cultivating more self awareness and presence through your meditation practice, that sounds like there was a deeper motivation to do during this time, but also, because you didn't have to get on a plane and travel as much. So there was more regularity in your schedule, to be able to really say this is important. And that enabled you to stay in the moment to stay in gratitude. And to be able to pivot and shift as things always are changing, but in this time, maybe changing more quickly than what we're accustomed to.   And then I also heard that what also came through was the inner game of love. So really cultivating, you know, being loving and caring towards yourself, which then extends outward to everyone that you engage with, and unique and Leticia you and I've only known each other for a little while, but your care and your warmth, and your heart really comes through. And I felt that immediately when we connected. And I said she's got an inner game of love going on here.   18:28 Leticia Van Splunteren   Thank you Carley, I'm happy to hear that. Because you know, it's that and I and I cannot take credit because it's not something I purposely do. But I think yes, that if you nurture yourself it is very hard to do, because you almost feel a little bit selfish, and a little bit guilty of should I be doing something else, something more productive, you know, productive in the way that the world measures it. And when you work in your inner game, it's almost like you don't measure it until you hear a nice comment, like the one you just gave me that if that if that, you know, shines through, then I say okay, then I invested in something that now it's been measured somehow she feels a lot. I feel good about it. But you know, in most cases, you don't get measured on that. And that's the hard part.   19:17 Carley Hauck   Well, and I think that's what's also shifting in corporate culture, and we can talk you know more about this, but the real skills, which in some terms have been called the soft skills, but are really the ways that we lead and collaborate and find, you know, effective communication to innovate to find resolution. Those are not technical skills, you can't necessarily measure them, you know, and, and they do directly lead to business outcomes and organizational goals. And because business is all about relationships, if you don't have that strong inner game, you're not smart. fording a more human centered workforce that is going to be able to really navigate difficult times, like what we're going through.   And so, I mean, I am personally and professionally, maybe a little biased, but I've just seen it again. And again, those are the skills that really matter at the end of the day. And but I hear you that, historically, it's been about what we're doing versus how we're being.   20:31 Leticia Van Splunteren   Yeah, absolutely, couldn't agree more.   20:35 Carley Hauck   Mm hmm. Well, talking about another inner game skill that is often spoken to in the podcast and with many leaders, is the inner game of authenticity. So when we are really cultivating what matters to us, what's really true, and then we're able to bring that out into our actions into our words, I know that authenticity is a big value of yours. And it's something also that I've noticed about you right from our first conversation. So how do you step in the arena first, so to speak, you know, get vulnerable, be more authentic? And how does that support you to lead your team and especially in the midst of healthy or healthy conflict, but some people might just say, conflict, but, but I believe that conflict can be healthy. So that was kind of a big question. But how would you answer that?   21:35 Leticia Van Splunteren   Well, I think that, for whatever reason, being authentic is always a little bit misunderstood. You know, especially if you're a woman, it's especially felt like weakness, but also for men, I think when they're authentic, they're perceived as a little bit soft. So I think that's something that needs to change. And that's a shift that I'm hoping that it's also starting to happen.   But my approach has always been, you know, being authentic, I don't know if it's 17 years of all girls Catholic school there, add something to the women, but, but just, you know, I was also raised with that, you know, just be upfront, and show who you are. And what I've learned is when you are authentic, and also vulnerable. So when you say how it is, people get surprised, because they are not expecting you to say listen, you know, business is not good. I need help. And then you get a very different response that when you put, you know, a strong, you know, facade, saying, oh, everything's good, we're doing this, and we're doing that. And yeah, you can, you can have that and do it. But then you don't realize you're doing yourself a disservice. Because if you're having challenges, no one's gonna connect with your challenges and offer help.   So I lead like that. So I show that vulnerability, I show my team that, you know, I also get issues, I also get problems. I don't expect others to do something that I don't do. For example, for example, you know, I know a lot of leaders and bosses, you know, a very particular kind of boss micromanager. He doesn't like it or she doesn't like it when she isn't here, so he has a doctor's appointment, or he has these and they had to leave the office. And I say, don't you have a doctor's appointment from time to time, and they give you a time in a day that it's in the middle of the day.   And I think we don't put on each other's shoes often enough. And so I tried to lead from that perspective and be authentic also to myself, like, really, if that was me in that situation? Why would I expect, you know, from it. And so that has taken me down a good path, because I find that people are more authentic with me in return. And they open up about things and sometimes, you know, I say I get to hear things and stories that I know that are not shared, you know, with many people, and sometimes man, those around me are surprised by how they tell you that? Or why did they share that with you? And I say because I also share, you know what I'm going through and I was also open.   And so I think that being authentic is really a great quality and, and you practice Be generous with your authenticity first, and you'll see that it's gonna return back somehow to you.   24:26 Carley Hauck   I completely agree. And, you know, one of the other things that I've been learning about authenticity and speaking our truth is there's actually a couple distinctions. So authenticity is really just knowing the truth of who you are, what really matters and conveying that. And then there's transparency and transparency is just allowing people to really hear and see all the details. It's not leaving anything out. And then vulnerability is that personal quality that you're bringing in of- I need support right now, or, you know, just allowing your feelings to come through in the authenticity.   And so for me having those three distinctions supports me to understand, is this a time to be vulnerable? Is this a time to be transparent? Is this a time to be authentic? Or is it time for all three?   25:23 Leticia Van Splunteren   That's why you're the expert. I love that, you know, that this? That distinction is very powerful. Absolutely. And yeah, you know, those of us who are not like you have Masters on the subject. You know, you do it intuitively, you know, that, you know, in business, also, there's a time to be vulnerable, but there's also time to bluff a little bit. And learning to deal with that, I think it's important.   And, you know, if we go back to healthy conflict, and in the team environment, I would have, to my answer that, you know, when I put when I've been transparent, I think that's where this distinction becomes important. When you let the person know, what you're going through in the decision, your decision making, trail of thought, and I something I've done many, many times is say, you know, if I have to say with someone, and I've had great relationships with all my team members throughout my career, and I say, Listen, on the personal level, I consider you a friend, if that has evolved into a friendship with with a colleague, I consider you a friend, and nothing will, I will say in this conversation will affect that, you know, will affect the fact that I consider you a dear friend, and we have a relationship outside the office, and I love to keep that intact.   Now on the you know, professionally, there are certain expectations from the work we are doing. And you know, and then I will go into what maybe I'm not happy about or anything that will create that conflict that we're discussing, but I usually try to create a positive ground where the person feels safe, that the different interactions that we have are not going to be affected by this one conversation.   27:06 Carley Hauck   Well, that's a really helpful example. And then there might even be a piece of vulnerability that you add in there, too, depending on the circumstance, depending on the situation.   All right, well, let's talk about boundaries. You know, being that, again, you're navigating a lot, you're holding a lot from the role of mother to CEO, to wife, and then you also have this podcast. And you're also going to be offering up this incredible experience in Italy in April that we'll share a little bit more about. How are you able to put all of those in buckets, and have time for yourself? And for the things that matter?   27:57 Leticia Van Splunteren   You know, Carley, I think that's a question I get asked the most all the time, but not only in podcasts, like by my friends is like how on earth? Are you doing all this? And it's funny, because, you know, I, I think I'm very realistic, one of the things is, in terms of what boundaries I set families first. And you know, I been a mother, I think it's the biggest job that anybody, I parent, any job that anybody can have, because you realize that you are raising someone else that that is going to be, you know, the is going to model basically, who you are and who you and your spouse or your partner are in terms of bringing this world to this child to the world, and how they show up in the world. So I consider that my biggest responsibility.   And but, you know, I had a great example at home because my father and the company he founded 50 years ago. So I was always, you know, in an intrapreneurship environment, and my dad is a great father, and he's 87. And he still works every single day of his life. So he's still my boss. And, but he gave us the best example in terms of boundaries. And when he would come home from the office, you know, work talk was forbidden. And it was very little, you know, almost no workout. And he say, well, in those times it was easier because it was only me, but now, me, my two siblings, my sister in law, and my dad all work in the same company. So imagine our Christmas events or holidays are usually interesting. But you know, we are all very respectful of that. We all know that we work together and it's very easy to, you know, at a family event to talk about work. And we make a conscious effort and that's where the whole mindfulness and being present and, and you know, you know, be 100% where you are, if I'm in the office, I'm 100% here, if I'm at home, I'm 100% here.   And, you know, I was always very good with my email, even over the weekend since I became a mom, people that interact with me, they know, you know, I'm trying not to check email on the weekend, because otherwise my mind cannot be with my family 100%. And so, you know, you establish the boundaries that you think are important to you. And so for me, families, number one, of course, the business is important, but I always tried to put those first and then I don't take on things I know I cannot fulfill. I'm super realistic with that, like, there's initiatives that I love. And I know I will get to at some point, my book was one of those that you know, I always wanted to write a book but I knew I didn't have the time and then the right opportunity came and it got done.   And then I feel sometimes people are not realistic with their own time. And what they can tackle and setting up having a structure where you say, Okay, I'm going to delegate this delegate that and then you could really come fit so much more by delegating, but also by being honest with what you can tackle and what you cannot tackle.   31:25 Carley Hauck   Fabulous. And so wonderful to hear about the family run business and the components of that, and the people involved, because so many small businesses had to, you know, close their doors in the midst of the pandemic. And then we have these big monopolies like Walmart, and Costco and Amazon, and, you know, that have just really taken on so much more power, because the small business just couldn't compete. And so I'm feeling really happy to hear that Neptuno has continued to really thrive.   And I would also imagine that there's maybe a little bit more camaraderie in working with the family, you know, of saying, hey, this just came up personally, can you take this right? Where I wonder if that's a little bit easier in the context of a family business, versus a non-family business?   32:25 Leticia Van Splunteren   Absolutely. And I think that's how we should all run our business because it goes back to my point to the doctor's appointment, right? If it's your brother or your sister that has an important appointment, you want them to be good, you want to give them peace of mind to go to that appointment and not having to think about work. And the you know, I work for corporate America, my share of the years and thank God that I work for a very good company, Canadian, Nortel and I also work at Merrill Lynch, but you see how we dehumanize work, and it shouldn't be separate.   Work is a huge part of who we are. We spend most of our days in our offices, and it's not separate from our lives. And so I think COVID has allowed us to see that, that we can still be very efficient, we can still run our businesses and do our jobs, you know, sometimes by not being in an office just by being home. I think that's part of what the great resignation is, is that people realize that they can have a different life and that they were going through the motions in having traditional jobs, but they were not happy at the end of the day.   33:34 Carley Hauck   Definitely, yes, we bring our whole selves to work and to home no matter what and I think it's become definitely something that we can't pretend isn't happening and hasn't always happened.   33:50 Leticia Van Splunteren   It's been so challenging, you know, to your point that you know that we are thriving we are thank God and we you know, by we have had to do so many pivots and even my father says he pains me to see what you guys are going through because in his time integrity, your worth, not lying to a customer to get business those were were qualities that were appreciated by the customers. And now we are living unfortunately in a time that the customer wants you to tell them what they want to hear. And there's people out there that will tell them anything just to get a purchase order even knowing it's a lie but you know when you work for the family business, I cannot lie. I always tell people I have 50 years of my father's legacy on our shoulders.   34:40 Carley Hauck   Yeah, the brand reputation, yeah, wonderful.   34:45 Leticia Van Splunteren   I will destroy you much more than you're just a project or a bad deal if I did that. But then you know, to the point of something my husband always tells me he's a very philosophical guy. He says How is good gonna win when evil plays by different rules? And we've been in that position so many times where you, you know, you know that the customer is being lied to is not being treated fairly, it's because you lose the deal, because the others don't play fair. So you have to make a commitment, who do you want to be as a company and as a person?   35:25 Carley Hauck   Definitely, I really appreciate that example. So Neptuno is this family business that you are the CEO of? It's in the telecommunications industry. And tell me why this is so important right now, as we have 5G, and what are the obstacles around having this worldwide network where we're just able to really connect with one another? And then what are also the possibilities?   35:57 Leticia Van Splunteren   I thank you for that question. Currently, because you know, I've done many podcasts, initially, it's all technology driven, or all, you know, self development, kind of this kind of conversation. And it's so important to intersect our worlds and to share with each other what we all do, because it's all definitely intertwined.   So our company started building the telecom towers that you see by the road, so be the big tower towers that really enable the first cell phone calls. So I'm very proud that, you know, throughout the 50 years, we've installed over 10,000, in the Americas, many, many of them are in the islands, where they were the first, you know, tower and means of communication for small towns, so to see, you know, someone being able to call home because now they have a tower, and they have the infrastructure available to make that phone call has always been something I've been very proud of.   And I think that unfortunately, we have lost respect for what's behind our cell phones. There's so many people and so much technology that goes behind being able to make that phone call, or to stay connected or to do WhatsApp. So that's just to say, you know, that I'm very passionate about raising awareness about what the telecom industry does, because he has become a commodity in a way.   And is there something everybody has these days is a cell phone is a smartphone. And so the 5G, what is this? Why is it important? You know, when when the first technology that enable that cellular phone call came about was very revolutionary, right, we get the opportunity to do a phone call from the car for the very first time, 5G, you know, all the technologies in between one G while the what is called Zero G, or one G. And then 5G, you know, has brought us a step closer, where you couldn't text, you know, that 2G technology gave you that, and then you couldn't stream 4G technology gave you that. So there's a lot of, you know, progress that we made.   5G, what it's gonna give us is almost like that real time ability to do things like robotics. We couldn't do robotics, you know, for the longest time, and now, this is the technology that is gonna enable that. And it's always basically always connected. Streaming. You know, it's very exciting. And I will take three hours to explain it, but I'm very, very lucky to be in this industry and be enabling that communication.   38:45 Carley Hauck   Well, thank you, because it just taught me a lot about that industry, because it's not one that I have supported, and the companies and leaders, so thank you for sharing that. And thank you for being in service.   39:02 Leticia Van Splunteren   Thank you. And we are in a workforce shortage. So if anybody you know is interested, this is the perfect time. It's a very exciting industry to join in.   39:10 Carley Hauck   Hmm. Well, we will leave links to how folks can get in touch with you after the podcast. So awesome. People that are interested, reach out to Leticia.   So I want to move us into this incredible new venture and experience that you clearly have been thinking about visioning for a while, where you're bringing leaders together for an incredible, transformational time, at the beginning of April, in Sicily, Italy. And I feel grateful and delighted that you have invited me to come and support the facilitation in co-creation of this event, and what inspired you to want to bring folks together in this way at this time.   39:57 Leticia Van Splunteren   Thank you, Carley . And we're so excited that you're joining us. That's really one of the best things of the whole Back to Basics experience. But what inspired me is, three years ago, I started a podcast called Back to Basics, Reconnecting to the Essence of You, moved by the intuition that, you know, while I enabled telecommunications and coming in connections in what I do, I also realized we are losing human connection, we are not talking to each other, we're not having enough inspiring conversations such as this one.   And so I started the podcast as a side gig. And, you know, you've been on it. So I'm very honored as well. But you know, it just has spun off into all these opportunities and interesting people. And so my husband and I had the idea- what if we do something in a place that will be so beautiful, but also will create like a cohort of, you know, people that are open to just go through a transformational experience.   And so we decide the the whole week, which will happen April 2 to the eighth in Sicily, where my parents are from, and it's, you know, in the town, my dad's down, we're going to have a beautiful castle, all to ourselves, which is our boutique hotel owned by very good friends. And we will have, you know, daily sessions facilitated by you. And by professor, Paul McGee, who's going to be a special speaker for two days.   And we'll talk about you know, all things that we're talking here, you know, your book is going to be, you know, base basis will serve as a great basis of conversations. And also, we realize that people want to have fun, people want to explore other places. And so we're gonna have some beautiful, beautiful day tours to the city of Armenian, Siracusa and Noto. We have three world UNESCO World Heritage towns that will will visit but we are embedding you know, the program, the program that you will facilitate, into these experiences so that it's not like we're going to be, you know, in a classroom all day we're going to be experiencing and that's why, you know, being embodied, yes, yes. That's why it's called the Back to Basics experience, because life doesn't happen. In a classroom. In a conference room, life happens while you're talking while you're having a great meal. Why not have a great Prosecco, you know, I want it to be, you know, more real to what we go through in our daily lives.   42:41 Carley Hauck   Wonderful. Well, for those of you that are listening, and you're thinking Sicily in April, and being with other leaders and learning and growing and connecting, and learning how to bring our best to work in the world. We would love to have you and there will be links in the show notes on how you can come and join us.   43:08 Leticia Van Splunteren   I love it. Yeah, the whole purpose is to have inspired connections, just as what I feel I'm having with you right now and inspired connection. That's really what we are envisioning in this one week to be inspired connections in the most beautiful place you can imagine.   43:22 Carley Hauck   Can't wait   43:23 Leticia Van Splunteren   Me either. So I hope that your audience gets excited to look it up. And we still have a few rooms left. So I encourage everybody to just check it out.   43:37 Carley Hauck   Yeah. Well, Leticia, I'm loving this conversation. And I could talk to you all day. And I'll get an opportunity to do that when we're in Italy. But for now, as we wrap up, I have two last questions for you. Because you are the last interview and guest of 2021. And because we are at the end of the year, I always love the ritual of letting go and bringing in and in my experience, when we let something go, we really give room for the new.   And the letting go could be a person that's not serving you. Right. It could be a client, it could be a pattern or a narrative that you have that's keeping you stuck. It could be an unhealthy habit, you know, anything that you're thinking, you know, I don't want to bring this with me into 2022 because it's keeping me stuck in some way. And then what is it that you're calling in that you're bringing in it's going to replace that? I feel so curious to hear.   44:46 Leticia Van Splunteren   Okay, well, that's a yeah, it's a good question. So what I want to leave out it's something I've been working for since the beginning of the year. It's, you know, I realized somehow human beings we got wired in to having to create a story to everything that happens to us. And I'm very good at that. So let's say a customer doesn't respond to an email, and I'm already thinking they're not gonna buy from me, they're talking to my competitor. And I just create this narrative. And the story in my head that I realize, you know, is fantasy is science fiction, because it's my head, saying something that he may or may not be. But he creates so much suffering for me when I create these stories that are just things that I'm imagining. And so what I'm leaving out is that need to attach a story to something that happened. And just to accept the fact of what happened for what it is, is just the customer didn't respond to the email, and just let it be.   48:47 Carley Hauck   I love that just yeah, just just staying with what is. Oh, so this just happened? Got it. Okay, letting go until more information comes in.   48:50 Leticia Van Splunteren   Yeah, exactly, exactly. And so then with that, what I bring into it is just hope and a deep trust that whatever just happened happened for the greater good.   And just to sit in that deep trust that, you know, and I don't have to know the explanation, I don't have to know why. You know, I think that's why the biggest way of saying it is I don't have to know the why of things and why this happened. And what's the purpose of these and really creates a lot of suffering. And I've been practicing it as we enter the new year. And it's really liberating to just let it be.   46:35 Carley Hauck   And I also want to acknowledge that that's not always so easy.   46:39 Leticia Van Splunteren   No it's not that's why I said I've been working on it for a long time. It's not something that I've just taken because it takes practice.   46:47 Carley Hauck   It does. It does. I think that I'm going to join you in that. Let's be accountability buddies. I love it. 46:54 Leticia Van Splunteren   Let's do it.   46:56 Carley Hauck   Okay, well, we have had such an incredible conversation. You've left me and everyone with so many wonderful, real tips from your own experience. And I'm just really thankful for you taking time today with me and the SHINE podcast. Is there anything you'd like to leave before we end?   47:15 Leticia Van Splunteren   Just, you know, gratitude, Carley, for giving me the space to share my thoughts with you. I know, I mean, I'm a follower. I am a subscriber of your podcast. And I know you have very, very high caliber individuals in this podcast. So I'm very humbled that you asked me to join and I'm humbled that you are co creating Back to Basics with with us. So I'm just very grateful to have met you this year.   47:40 Carley Hauck   Ah, likewise, I'm very excited to continue this journey with you. And you're such a beautiful embodiment of so many of the other leaders. So you're, you're, you know, totally in line with everyone else that I've interviewed. So thank you again.   48:00 Leticia Van Splunteren   Well, thank you for that. And you know, best of luck to anybody listening since I'm the last episode, let's make 2022 a great year and you know, there's going to be ups and there's going to be down, that's a certainty to expect that everything is only up, it's unrealistic. So let's just make the best of what comes our way.   48:19 Carley Hauck   Definitely. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you Leticia for your time and for your commitment to being a conscious inclusive leader.   If you have questions or want to connect with Leticia her LinkedIn handle and other links will be available for you in the show notes. If you enjoyed this episode, please share it with friends, family or colleagues. We're all in this together. And the more that you share, the more that we can support one another.   And as we spoke about this incredible experience in Sicily, Italy, April 2 through eighth, we would love to have you join us. And you can go to the link in the show notes. Or you can also go to leticialatino.com/backtobasics-experience. You can reach out to Leticia or I to learn more information about this incredible week of transformation connection purpose.   If you have any questions, comments or topics that you would like me to address on the podcast, email me at support@carleyhauck.com. As always, I love hearing from you. Thank you so much for tuning in and being part of this community. What a year and I have incredible speakers and interviews lined up starting at the beginning of 2022. You do not want to miss out so if you have not, hit the subscribe button, go and subscribe to the shine podcast. Be safe, be healthy. Take time to nurture your well being, reflect and let go.   And until we meet again in 2022 to be the light and shine the light my friend.  

The Best of Breakfast with Bongani Bingwa
The big three private pathology groups have agreed to another price cut for Covid-19 Rapid Antigen tests to no more than R150

The Best of Breakfast with Bongani Bingwa

Play Episode Listen Later Dec 24, 2021 5:42


Guest: Tembinkosi Bonakele, Competition Commissioner See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

19 Nocturne Boulevard
19 Nocturne Boulevard - CRUMPING THE DEVIL - Reissue

19 Nocturne Boulevard

Play Episode Listen Later Dec 16, 2021 41:43


[warning - mature situations, foul language and violence] An ornery old woman takes on all comers in defense of her family and her freedom - even the Devil and Death!  Cast List Maggie - Julie Hoverson Nursey - Robyn Keyes  Bertha - Rhys TM Barry - Mr. Synyster Kev - Michael Coleman (Tales of the Extraordinary) Jemma - Gwendolyn-Jensen Woodard (Gypsy Audio) Morte - Russell Gold Devil -Jack Kincaid (Edict Zero) Ted - Russell Gold Spike - Paul Mannering (Brokensea Audio) Other Bikers -  Brandon O'Brien; Bill Hollweg Music:  Kevin MacLeod (Incompetech.com) Editing and Sound:   Julie Hoverson Cover Photo:  Elizabeth Flores       (courtesy of Stock Xchange.com) "What kind of a place is it?  Why it's a recovery ward, can't you tell?" ***************************************** CRUMPING THE DEVIL Cast: [Opening credits - Olivia] Maggie Kev/"the Maniac", grandson Bertha, the manipulative daughter Barry, Bertha's bastard husband Nursey Morte Satan Jemma, the pregnant wimp daughter Ted, Jemma's abusive bastard husband Spike, violent biker OLIVIA     Did you have any trouble finding it?  What do you mean, what kind of a place is it?  Why, it's a recovery ward, can't you tell?  MUSIC AMBIANCE    Hospital, beeps etc. MAGGIE    [talking on phone]  I don't give a flying rat's flaming anus how good a job he does! Shall I roll past your garage and post photos of what he did to his wife?  Perhaps I should leave a nice big bloodstain on your doorstep with the words wifebeater scrawled on the pavemment - don't think I won't! PATIENT    [groan] MAGGIE    [up] Stuff it! [back on phone] Oh, yes!  [evil laugh] You come down here and say that to my face - I'll call the press.  [delighted laugh] I can just see the rags with you beating up a helpless gran in a wheelchair.  Tough guy!  SOUND    DOOR OPENS, FEET COME IN NURSEY    Now, now - phone time's over.  Time to say goodbye to all your friends. MAGGIE    Bugger off, stay-puft. NURSEY    [tsks]  SOUND    PHONE GRABBED AND HUNG UP FORCEFULLY NURSEY    Dear, dear - no need to drive up your blood pressure.  You need to stay calm, ducks, and get your rest. SOUND    CURTAIN PULLED AROUND BED MAGGIE    I'm ordering prunes!  Lots of prunes!  Just so you have to clean up the mess when they come out the other end! NURSEY    My, my - but I'm not here all the time. MAGGIE    [snarled] I have your schedule memorized. MUSIC BERTHA    Mother, you need to be rational about this.  This is your fourth hospitalization this year - you've reached a point where you need someone to look after you.  MAGGIE    Visiting nurse comes by twice a week.  BERTHA     [prompting] Barry! BARRY    What if you... fall? MAGGIE    I have this very special invention.  It allows me to magically contact help when I need it.  BARRY    Oh, what? MAGGIE    It's called a cellphone, you scrofulous prick.  I'll wear it on a lanyard if it'll make you piss off.  Now get your sorry arses out of my sickroom. PATIENT    Go away. MAGGIE    See?  Even that bastard hates you. BERTHA    No mother, we're not leaving until we get this settled. MAGGIE    Nurse! BARRY    There is a button-- MAGGIE    Fuck off - this annoys her more.  Nurse! SOUND    DOOR OPENS, FEET COME IN SLOWLY KEV    H'lo Gran.  [reluctant] Mum.  [distasteful] Barry.    MAGGIE    Who the bloody buggery hell are you supposed to be? BERTHA    Oh, heavens, her memory is going! MAGGIE    Don't get your hopes up, arse-face.  Are you trying to tell me the fruit of your sweaty loins-- BERTHA    [gasp] MAGGIE    --has taken to running about dressed as sir poncy de leon? KEV    I'm Hamlet. MAGGIE    [laughing wickedly] Go on!  You?  You can't memorize the balance of your overdraft!  Come on then, soliloquize us! KEV    [chuckles] It's a sales promotion for a mattress shop.  To sleep or not to sleep, all that bollocks. BERTHA    [muttered] I just don't know where he gets this language from. MAGGIE    Oh, god - if you're truly that fucking dense, I wish I was your father so at least I'd have some slight glimmer of hope that you weren't mine! SOUND    DOOR OPENS, NURSEY FEET ENTER NURSEY    Come, come - let's keep it all nice and civil, there are other people in this hospital, you know. MAGGIE    Well, there must be people somewhere, but there's a couple of wankers in here.  Bugger off, knot-knickers.  BERTHA    [gasp, then affronted noises as she leaves] SOUND    FEET STORM OUT NURSEY    Dear, dear.  Poor old Maggie's being deserted. MAGGIE    Your turn, then isn't it, blancmange?  Shuffle off and fetch something, would you?  ...Like a stick? NURSEY    Tsk Tsk.  You really need to-- MAGGIE    You, hey you in the tights.  You stay.  [beat]  Gotta catflap in those bonbon knickers? KEV    No, gran. NURSEY    [psst, then confidential] Young man, you haven't brought her any alcohol have you? KEV    No - no!  What sort of grandson would that make me?  No bottle on me anywhere, [leering] want to pat me down? NURSEY    [oblivious] No, no!  Five minutes, then visiting hours are over. SOUND    HER FEET LEAVE, DOOR SHUTS MAGGIE    [hushed] You did bring me something, didn't you?  You are aware I think you're the least worthless of all my pathetic offspring? SOUND    PLASTIC BAG OUT OF POCKET KEV    Love you too, gran.  I remember how much you complained last time of not being able to find a place to light one up, so I baked you some brownies. MAGGIE    You?  Baked?  KEV    I'm a sensitive new age type of bloke.  I can make a mix.  SOUND    OPENING PLASTIC BAG MAGGIE    [sniffs] Nice.  You didn't skimp on the "spices." SOUND    TAP ON THE DOOR NURSEY    Time's up! KEV    Stuff em somewhere.  Size of that cow, she probably snaps up everyone's sweeties.   MAGGIE    I think she just eats patients-- SOUND    DOOR OPENS MAGGIE    [louder] --mostly the males. KEV    [wincey noise] Ooh... MUSIC MAGGIE    [into phone, trying to be quiet] --the Maniac left me a mobile. Have you tracked down Python yet, then?  [beat, then getting loud]  Sod it!  I thought you bastards had better legal these days! SOUND     QUIETLY DOOR OPENS, SLOW FOOTSTEPS ENTER MAGGIE    There must be someone there whose tattooes run more than knickers deep!  [beat]  Fine, I'll call the-- SOUND    CURTAIN SWEPT ASIDE SUDDENLY MAGGIE    [gasp] Bugger me! SOUND    MUFFLED VOICE AS SHE HIDES THE PHONE, BEEPING, TRYING TO TURN IT OFF MORTE    Madame?  I believe you are expecting me. MAGGIE    Riiight.  Middle of the night, hospital room.  Must be the stripper.  Where's your music? MORTE    [startled] Um, no, I-- MAGGIE    Well, you can't be a doctor - they've all gone home.  We're in the hands of the sadists and the diapers. MORTE    The what? MAGGIE    Nurses and interns.  Look, It's late and I'm a bit too knackered to abuse you properly, so tell me who you bleeding think you are so you can sod off! MORTE    [trying to get his spooky back on] I'm... death. MAGGIE    Pull the other one - it spits. MORTE    No, really.  I'm... death. MAGGIE    Always thought you'd be Welsh.  So what are you doing swotting around here?  I'm not dead.  The infernal pinging thing says so. MORTE    But you are old [spooky] ...and dying. MAGGIE    [getting mad] So they keep fucking telling me, but I've never been one for following orders.  If you're really the angel of death, why are you wearing such a for-fucks-sake ugly suit?  And where's your bleeding scythe?  Can't be death without a jolly great scythe, can you, now? MORTE    Oh, please - this is the 21st century. MAGGIE    First piece of sense to come out of your festering gob, you git.  Now bugger off - I'm knackered, but I'm not ready for the tip yet. MORTE    You will see me again tomorrow. MAGGIE    Tell you what - you come back during visiting hours and I'll get my bastard son-in-law to drop in.  All I have to do is wave money anywhere within ten kilometers of my Jemma and that bastard appears like bleeding magic. MORTE    But I-- MAGGIE    Him you can take, with all my heartfelts.  If you're not going to make yourself useful, though, you can piss off and stay there. SOUND    FISHES OUT THE PHONE AND DIALS MORTE     [affronted, huffy] You're not supposed to have a mobile in the hospital. MAGGIE    Fuck off. [into phone]  Spike? MORTE    You have a friend named Spike? MAGGIE    [into phone] No, that's not a cop - just some prat trying to sell me life insurance.  Are you Spike? MORTE    You're really going to just ignore me? MAGGIE    Hold on. [hand over phone] Sorry, didn't mean to leave you hanging like that.  You're right, I should finish with you before making my calls.  So if you would kindly FUCK OFF?  Good.  [back to phone]  God, these bleeding salesmen.  They're like some damn pet pekingese - no balls but still won't stop humping once they get a grip on your leg. MORTE    Well, I- I-I- never! MAGGIE     Spike?  Great - what would it take to get some help with a problem? SOUND    MORTE'S FEET STORM OUT, DOOR OPENS AND SHUTS. MAGGIE    Nice!  Hold that thought, and I'll ring you back tomorrow - that twat's just gone to grass on me to the warden. MUSIC AMB     HOSPITAL ROOM - NOT SO URGENT.  NO PINGING THING. SOUND    TAP ON DOOR, THEN DOOR OPENS WITHOUT WAITING SOUND    WHEELCHAIR BEING PUSHED IN JEMMA    [weak, hopeful] Hello?  [down] Mum. MAGGIE    [trying to be calm and quiet] Jemma.  NURSEY    Here we all are then. SOUND    DOOR SWINGS SHUT NURSEY    Ready for a nice litle family chat. MAGGIE    Just ignore her.  [deep breath] They say you're going home soon. JEMMA    I'm all right. [she's not] MAGGIE    I'll see to it, someone drops around and keeps an eye on you. JEMMA    I'll be careful.  [not very convincing] Won't walk into any more... doors. MAGGIE    [getting a bit annoyed] Won't walk into any more fists, more like. JEMMA    [upset, "not in front of the nurse"] Mum!       MAGGIE    She's heard worse.  Haven't you, snowball? NURSEY    [affirming, acerbic] From you alone. MAGGIE    [snort of laughter, then serious]  So, when can I kill him? JEMMA    What? MAGGIE    That cocksucker husband of yours. JEMMA    Mother! MAGGIE    You can't say you don't want him dead.  Bertha keeps pissing on and on about my hospital record - you're leagues ahead of me.  Between the times he's knocked you up and the times he's knocked you down, it's amazing they don't just name a suite for you and give you your own key. JEMMA    [crying]  He doesn't mean to-- MAGGIE    [losing it]  Doesn't mean to!  What, he was cleaning his swotting great fist and it went off!?  Or the other part - dearie, you get preggers every time that arsehole even wanks in your direction.  You'd be much better off without him. JEMMA    He loves me. MAGGIE    Oh, god - we are not having this discussion again.  JEMMA    And we have eight children to look after - nine, soon. MAGGIE    [softer again]  It's all right then? JEMMA    [barely able to talk] Yes.  MAGGIE    Jems, that son of a syphilitic whore punched you - punched a pregnant woman, let alone a pregnant woman he claims to care for - in the bloody stomach.  JEMMA    [breaks into tears] NURSEY    Oh, look at the time.  Come along Maggie, musn't be late on your pills! MAGGIE    [yelling as they leave] Get it through your sodding thick skull - He DID MEAN IT!  MUSIC SOUND    NIGHT, PINGING, ETC. SOUND     MAGGIE MUNCHING ON SOMETHING SOUND     DOOR OPENS, SLOW FOOSTEPS (two sets) SOUND    PLASTIC BAG RATTLES AS IT'S HIDDEN MAGGIE    [sucking stuff out of her teeth]  Who's there? SOUND    CURTAIN PULLED ASIDE MAGGIE    [disgusted noise] Oh, it's just you.  Piss off. MORTE    I told you I would return. MAGGIE    And take my soul blah blah blah.  I have you sussed, you wanker. MORTE    Sussed?  I already told you - I'm death. MAGGIE    Right.  And I have a daughter who would like nothing more than to have her dear old mum babbling on about meeting death in the flesh - all so she can have me declared non compos and shoved away in some shithole of a home while she sends all my odds and sods to auction "on my behalf".  Piss off, and tell her she can piss off too. SATAN    [explosive laugh] MORTE    See?  I told you. MAGGIE    Told me what?  You're not making sense, the curtain is laughing like a drain, and I'm not that stoned. SOUND    CURTAIN OPENS FURTHER WITH A DRAMATIC SWEEP MORTE    She surely is the most frightful woman I've seen in years. SATAN    I like it. MAGGIE    And who are you supposed to be?  Revival of the Rocky Horror show? SATAN    [laughs harder] MORTE    He's the devil. MAGGIE    Well I knew he wasn't a doctor - not dressed like that.  [sigh] SATAN    [laughing subsides] MAGGIE    Are you done?  I wouldn't want to waste a good insult on you when you can't hear it properly. SATAN    [chuckles, but stops himself]  Go on. MAGGIE    Dressed like that, you look like Sir Elton John vomited all over you. SATAN    [chuckles] MAGGIE    And I suspect that'd be rare, since he's probably got a strong gag reflex. SATAN    [a moment, then a gasp as he gets it, then uproarious laughter] MAGGIE    Told you it was a good one. [joins in] MORTE    I don't get it. MAGGIE    Oh, god.  You need to loosen the fuck up.  [evil chuckle]  Here.  Have a brownie. MORTE    A brownie?  Ooh.  Chocolate is my weakness. SOUND    RATTLE OF PLASTIC MAGGIE    Death and chocolate - imagine that.  How about you, Gary Glitter? SATAN    Well, if you're offering. [They munch for a minute] MORTE    Interesting [licks his lips, speculatively] ...aftertaste. MAGGIE    Old family recipe.  The maniac bakes them for me.  Don't tell the nurse - she's already thirteen stone. MORTE    [snorts]  Oh goodness! SATAN    [giggles uncontrollably] SOUND    CELL PHONE RINGS MAGGIE    Scuse me for a minute, will you? [they murmur assent] SOUND    PHONE ACTIVATED MAGGIE    Yeah?  Is this Spike?  Then who the bloody hell--  [pleased] Really? MORTE    [confiding, but loopy] Shouldn't have  mobile in hospital.   SATAN    Might call for help? [they both laugh] MAGGIE    You up for it, then?  More the merrier, I always say.  [beat]  Oh, dead may be overkill, but I wouldn't shed any tears.  Mostly I'd prefer him unable to fuck, or walk for at least a year - no, never again on the first - can you manage that? SATAN    [awed] What?  Did I hear you--? MAGGIE    Shut it.  [on phone]  Candy striper.  You know, one of those new homosexual ones.  [back on topic] So, you can handle it? SATAN    I'll have you know-- MAGGIE    [covers phone] Everyone knows you swing both ways - the devil can fuck with anyone. SATAN    Well [trying not to laugh], if you put it that way [bursts into hilarity again] MAGGIE    Great - when?  [upset] Weekend?  Not sooner?  They'll be sending her home tomorrow! MORTE    I thought you were talking about a man?  Who you don't want to be able to-- MAGGIE    Fine.  [annoyed] I'll try and get out of here too, then shall I?  No I bloody well can't talk them into letting her stay-- MORTE    --to [uncomfortable] "do it"-- SATAN    Just say "fuck." MORTE    [affronted] No. SATAN    Come on, I dare you. MAGGIE    Shut up or piss off.  I'm almost finished.  [into phone]  Saturday night, then?  Call me Thursday, same time, and I'll say where.  Brilliant.  SOUND    PHONE OFF MORTE    So is it? MAGGIE    Is it what, arse-face? MORTE    Is it a man or a woman? SATAN    He means who are you talking on the phone about? MAGGIE    I've got some friends of a-- MORTE    --questionable moral character? MAGGIE    Well, they do call themselves the Bastards of Carnage, so that might be a clue - Anyway, I've arranged will ... have a chat with ... my daughter's oozing sore of a so-called husband. MORTE    And you don't want him to be able to-- MAGGIE    And they won't be as kind as a vetrinarian. SATAN    Well!  [lip smacking noises]  Have you any more of those brownies? MUSIC AMB    MAGGIE'S ROOM KEV    I hear they're letting you go? MAGGIE    They have to get sick of me eventually. KEV    Are you doing all right?  Really? MAGGIE    Healthy as a horse.  [sighs] One of those swayback cartoon nags with glue factory stamped on them.  You know what your evil bitch of a mother is trying to do to me? KEV    Would it be so bad? MAGGIE    Et tu, wanker? KEV    No!  I'm really just curious.  MAGGIE    Well, quite apart from the horrors of loss of control over your life, the fact that they will likely frown on my extensive collection of filthy artwork, and having to obey people whose nappies I might have changed, it's the piss. KEV    Piss? MAGGIE    At your age, piss is still romantic.  Getting yourself well and truly pissed, pissing in the snow, nasty piss-scented alleys where you buy happy little packages - piss hasn't lost its shine. KEV    Oh? MAGGIE    By the time you get old, piss is the thing you fear the most.  Your own, someone else's - fuck death, fuck the devil, if there was a sodding god of piss we'd all be sacrificing virgin sheep to him just to make him stay the fuck away.  That's what those places are, Kev.  [solemn] They are where piss goes to die.  The smell, the damp, the feel in the air.  As long as I can still hold my water and get myself in and out of the bogatory, it's my bleeding right to look after myself.  KEV    [serious] All right. MAGGIE    [fierce again] Next time you feel yourself getting curious, darling beast, just swot on down to the crystal lights retirement complex - you don't even have to go inside, just stand downwind and have a good long whiff.  MUSIC AMB    NIGHTTIME AGAIN MAGGIE    [anxious sigh, then fretting] What is the bloody holdup?  I said-- SOUND    PHONE BUZZES, TURNED ON MAGGIE    Finally!  Took your goddamn time, didn't you?  [beat]  So Jemma phoned you - God, how I spewed forth such a spineless cow, I've no idea.  [beat, then disgusted]  Oh, right, the bloody money - that's the only thing you give a shit about, isn't it? MAGGIE    Don't bother, you mealy mouthed two faced prick!  I know just how much you care for your wife - I've seen the sodding medical charts.  [beat]  Blah Blah Blah.  Blah Blah Blah.  Course you have a problem - you're still fucking breathing.  I am planning on fixing that, you know.  [beat]  [chuckles nastily]  Wouldn't you like to know?  I'll tell you when, though - give you something to stew about, you arsehole - Saturday night.  You'd best watch your step, cause you may not realize it, but I have friends in low, low places, and they just love an excuse to beat some bastard to holy fuck and back!  [beat]  What do you mean, how are they going to find you?  They're probably already watching you.  Run if you want, but unless you find some way to get me first, they will get you.  SOUND    PHONE SHUT OFF SATAN    Was that really a good idea? SOUND    QUIET FOOTSTEPS APPROACH MAGGIE    What, impressed? SATAN    Yes and no.  I like your intensity, but you shouldn't have warned him. MAGGIE    Betcha I know what I'm doing. SATAN     [seriously] Let me think about it. MAGGIE    So, what's the pitch tonight?  And where's the undertaker? SATAN    He's a very busy entity.  He's already wasted rather a lot of time trying to impress you. MAGGIE    Why impress me - isn't he fucking all-powerful death?  Doesn't he just whisk people off and bobs your uncle, you're hip deep in the bleeding river styx? SATAN    Styx?  Well, I'm impressed-- MAGGIE    [dismissively] Beer mat trivia.  So it's just you and me tonight, is it?  Pity - I haven't had a really good threesome since 1968. SATAN    [chortle] MAGGIE    Right, laughing boy.  Either you dropped in for more of the maniac's brownies, or you want something from me, and I don't fancy myself so fucking entertaining that I'd drag you away from the torture telly. SATAN    Torture? MAGGIE    Bleeding heart chat shows and those so-called game shows where people swallow foul things that haven't even taken them to dinner and a picture first. SATAN    [sigh] Bloody hell - it's getting so hard to frighten people these days.  You say you'll stick a red-hot poker up the bum and half say "been there, done that". MAGGIE    Well, I've been and done around in my time.  Are you planning to try and scare the crap out of me? SATAN    Really, I just follow Morty around, since once he lets on he's coming for someone, it's usually a piece of piss to get them to agree to sell their soul... MAGGIE    [bark of laughter] A bit like when a bloody great hurricane hits and all the bastard insurance salesmen clean up selling storm coverage? SATAN    A bit.  So.  You selling? MAGGIE    Blunt, aren't you? SATAN    I feel we've gone a bit beyond a sales pitch here. MAGGIE    So?  I sell my soul and you - what?  Give me my greatest wish?  I assume immortality is only on the high shelf - the one you can't ever knock down enough sodding bottles to win. SATAN    What do you want? MAGGIE    [thinks, then]  No.  Two reasons.  First, I still believe you're some starving artist Bertha paid to come round and chat me up.  Second, I might have a mouth like a public urinal, but I still read my classics.  Monkey's Paw?  Nothing good ever comes from a bad deal.  SATAN    It's not my fault if people don't take time to read the small print.   MAGGIE    You ponder enough, there's always a way to bugger the customer.  If nothing else - just send the damn thing round unassembled, with instructions in fucking Parsi. SATAN    [laughing again] I do like you. MAGGIE    Can't say you're the worst bastard I've had to deal with in my whole sodding life. SATAN    Tell you what - just to prove that I am what I claim to be, how about a freebie? MAGGIE    I draw the line at giving up my favors for anything less than a fiver. SATAN    [chuckling] No, I mean I'll do something for you.  No strings.  Cross my heart. MAGGIE    You're not planning to bugger me on this? SATAN    What would it get me, until I get a signature on the dotted line?  It can't be anything huge - I'll not cure cancer or feed the world's hungry-- MAGGIE    Sod the hungry.  Too many bloody people clogging up the sewer we call the world anyway. SATAN    --or make you healthy. MAGGIE    [grim] Yeah, right. SATAN    Something short term and simple. MAGGIE    I got it.  And if you do it, I promise to take under consideration that you might actually be the bleeding king of the underworld.  Right? SATAN    Ask and it shall be done. MAGGIE    Right.  Now you have to wait until I say "done" before you go swotting off and do this - I want every bloody condition met.  SATAN    [very serious] Very well. MAGGIE    With no harm to either of them, in the immediate or long term, I want something to happen that will keep Jemma in hospital until Sunday.  Can you do me that?  Suspicious skin condition, something - and this is the part that if you fuck me I will find a way to rip your bollocks off - it has to be something that won't hurt the baby.  Right, uh... [thinking, then] Fuck.  Done. SATAN    [dead serious]  I see.  Agreed.  [beat, then a bit hesitant]  You wouldn't happen to have any of those brownies, would you? MUSIC SOUND    WHEELING DOWN A HOSPITAL HALL NURSEY    Doctor says you're just about well enough to leave.  MAGGIE    [snarl] Lovely.  NURSEY    Probably tomorrow - just in time for the weekend. MAGGIE    [snarl] Can't think of anything that would brighten my day more. SOUND    DOOR OPENS BERTHA    Oh!  Here she is. MAGGIE    Oh, bollocks, who decided to shit all over my parade? BERTHA    Mother! MAGGIE    Technically.  Can you at least keep your festering gob shut until this pelican gets me settled?  It's humiliating enough to be jumbled around like someone's sodding laundry, but to have an audience is just the bloody capper. BERTHA     Mother, this is too important to wait. MAGGIE    Fine.  Talk. BERTHA    I brought you the brochures-- MAGGIE    [somewhat muffled] Talk over.  Fuck off. BERTHA    Mother!  You must admit you need care.  You can't-- MAGGIE    I can!  You'll never get an agreement from me to being stuck in your fucking P-O-W camp, and if you even think about trying to  prove me incompetent, I will change my will and put Jemma in charge. BERTHA    [indignant] Jemma!  She doesn't --- She has too many... children... to look after! MAGGIE    [smug] And a bastard husband who will go through the bulk of my money in a week or two, slick as snot.  BERTHA    Besides, Jemma's going to be a bit longer here herself.  Some weird rash has cropped up that they want to keep for observation. MAGGIE    [at a loss]  Really?  [swallows, then her beligerance returns]  Devil only knows how that happened.  Right.  Now, I'm tired and you need to PISS OFF. BERTHA    This is not over! SOUND    FEET STORM OUT, DOOR SLAMS NURSEY    And what's wrong with a little care? MAGGIE    You. MUSIC SOUND    NIGHTTIME MAGGIE    All right, you pouffy bastard - come out. SATAN    [tsks]  Names? MAGGIE    Endearments, darling beast.  So what did you do to my idiot daughter? SATAN    You asked for a skin disease - I gave you one.  Shouldn't even be much scarring. MAGGIE    Scars she's used to.  I'll send her a bloody great tub of aloe vera.  Or will it to her.  I meant to ask, when can I expect another visit from lord stick up his bum? SATAN    Death?  About a week.  Maybe less.  MAGGIE    And then--? SATAN    [final, agreeing] And then.  You ready to sign on? MAGGIE    I'll read the bloody fine print first. SATAN    [chuckling, evilly] You may not have time - there's a helluva lot of fine print. MAGGIE    [chukles evilly back]  Hand it over. SOUND    HUGE SHEAF OF PAPER HITS THE TABLE WITH A THUD MAGGIE    Bugger me! SATAN    There may be an easier way. MAGGIE    Than buggering me?  What's that, then? SATAN    A bet.  MAGGIE    A bet? SATAN    You suggested it yourself last night.  I asked if you know what you're doing, and you-- MAGGIE    [considering, then quietly] I spoke very loosely. SATAN    The devil is in the details.  [laughs] MAGGIE    How do I prove I won, and what do I get? SATAN    What you get - hmm - I'll get Morty off your back, for, say, ten years?    MAGGIE    Is that all? SATAN    Who do you think I am, bloody Oprah? MAGGIE    That has to come with two things-- SATAN    I said-- MAGGIE    I have to be in at least as good health as I am now the entire time - no fucking coma for ten years - and abso-fucking-lutely no bloody nursing home.  I'll live on the kerb before I'll-- SATAN    Done. MAGGIE    And if I lose? SATAN    I get your soul - immediately. MAGGIE    So the bet is I know what I'm doing - how do I prove I won?  SATAN    What are you trying to accomplish? MAGGIE    Oh, no - I'm not giving you any chance to play silly beggars with my plans.  Suffice to say that after Saturday night I will still be the one smiling? SATAN    Hmm - give me a few more of those brownies and you have a deal. MUSIC SOUND    DOOR OPENS, WHEELCHAIR ENTERS MAGGIE    Jems? JEMMA    [weak, but better than before] Yes?  MAGGIE    They say you're to stay here a few more days. JEMMA    It's this bloody rash.  [itching noise] NURSEY    Now now, you know you're not supposed to-- MAGGIE    [weary] Bugger off Moby Dick.  Jems, I'm going home now, they say, and - uh - this weekend should be bloody interesting. JEMMA    [dull] Of course, mum.  You have someone to look in on you?  Bertha? MAGGIE    Only if I want to sign my away my soul.  [laughs uncomfortably]  Nah, I've talked Kev into roughing it with me for the weekend. JEMMA    [a bit disbelieving] Oh.  Yeah.  Good. MUSIC KEV    [muffled, nervous, on the phone]  Of course this is her bloody mobile!  She's asleep.  [beat]  Fuck no, I won't!  You can haul your own bleeding carcass in here and do your own dirty work.  [beat, sarcastic]  Ri-i-ight.  No, you don't understand - I'm rather fond of the old bag-- [beat]  Well, yeah, there is a toady element to it, but we get on, gran and me.  I'd just as soon have her around a while longer.  [beat]  Ain't impossible, innit?  She is meeting her solicitor next-- [beat] Oh, you didn't know that yet, did you?  [beat, then cowed]  Y‑yeah, I know--  No!  No, don't go to the cops.  I'll--  [beaten] I'll leave latch up, then, shall I? MUSIC [very ominous] SOUND     DOOR OPENS VERY CAREFULLY.  SOUND OF GENTLE WHEEZY BREATHING.  SLOW CREAKING FOOTFALLS.  TED    [muttering]  Stupid bloody old cow.  Have my guts for garters will she?  Hah!  SOUND     CREEPING GETS CLOSER TO THE BREATHING. TED    Once we've got your fucking money, you old bitch, Jemma'n me'll be just bloody fine.   SOUND    LIGHT SWITCH TURNED ON MAGGIE    [casual, off in a corner] Oh, right.  Tickety-bloody-boo. TED    [whirling]  You insane bitch!  [unsure] Wait!  If you're over there in the shadows, then who's in the sodding bed? SOUND     BEDCLOTHES FLUNG BACK KEV    [flamey] 'elo, luv! TED    What kind of bloody game are you playing? MAGGIE     Hmm.  Red Rover.  Red Rover, red rover, send the donkey's scrotum over. TED     Two to one?  The mummy and the weasel.  I can take the both of you!  [yells and runs at her] SOUND     RUNNING FEET, BROUGHT TO A SUDDEN HALT TED    [urk] SOUND     BODY DROP SPIKE    [chuckles nastily] No, me old son, I think you've got that ass-backwards.  Hasn't he, lads? SOUND     DOORS OPEN, SEVERAL SETS OF HEAVY FEET ENTER BIKERS     [agreeing noises, laughs.] SOUND    SLAP OF FIST INTO HAND, CHAIN RATTLES KEV    You mind, gran?  Not my thing. MAGGIE    [kindly] Nah, go ahead, you ponce.  I'll be right here.  Better than a jolly great football riot. KEV    [off] Yeah, but guess who gets to hose out your kip? SOUND     FEET SCUTTLE OUT OF ROOM TED    [panicking] Someone'll hear! MAGGIE    Not bloody likely.  I made dead cert of that.  Amazing what free dinner coupons will do to get people to vacate for the night.  Course, police'll chalk them up to the same burglars who broke in here - luckily Kev and I stopped in for dinner with Bertha. KEV    [yelling from off] We had a sodding flat on the way. MAGGIE    [threatening] Doesn't that just take the biscuit?  Now Ted.  If you take this like a good little mountain of elephant dung, quietly and repentant-like, they might leave you alive.  SOUND    PUNCHING COMMENCES, associated noises from the bikers TED    [grunts]  Hey!  Why--? MAGGIE    [incensed]  Why?  Hold up.  [starting low, and mounting] Three broken wrists - that's why.  A cracked fucking pelvis - that's why.  A broken collarbone - that's why!  Thirty-bloody-seven sodding black eyes, and that's only the ones I counted myself - that's why!  Punching your fucking pregnant wife in her stomach [ragged breath, then almost a whisper]  That.  Is why. SOUND    PUNCHING COMMENCES AGAIN, associated noises from the bikers MUSIC SOUND    HOSPITAL HALLWAY, ANNOUNCEMENTS, WHEELCHAIR APPROACHES NURSEY    [distasteful, but trying to hide it] Oh, goodness, are you back? MAGGIE    No fear, yeti.  We're just visiting, aren't we?  KEV    Right.  We're family. NURSEY    That's lovely.  Well, just a minute then.  He's not really up to much.  Poor fellow. SOUND    DOOR OPENS, PINGING MACHINES INSIDE MAGGIE    I know.  [pouring on the melodrama]  Apparently he was coming by to bring some flowers - since I'd just got out of hospital - and surprised some burglars or something.  [sounding almost teary]  But for the grace of the almighty, that could have been us - couldn't it, Kev? KEV    Worth every bite of mum's pork au poivre. MAGGIE    [sharp] Shh.  [teary] Tragic. NURSEY    [softening] See, I knew you had it in you. SOUND    DOOR SHUTS MAGGIE    If only she had it in her more often, she wouldn't be such a tight-ass knicker-twisting sodding git. TED    [muffled by tubes and such]  uh? MAGGIE    Good night.  What a mess. TED    [alarmed] uh! MAGGIE    Don't call reinforcemants just yet - we're merely here to deliver a message. TED    [shuddering] um? MAGGIE    It boils down to this, my evil bastard sonofabitch in law.  Quite apart from being ready to kill you should anything untoward happen to either of us here, my friends plan to visit anything you do to Jemma upon you.  And I do mean anything.  If you get anywhere near her, even with a freindly weapon, you better be ready to take every single bleeding stroke you give.  SOUND    WHEELCHAIR ROLLS AWAY MAGGIE    I'll send round some vaseline. SOUND    DOOR OPENS MUSIC SOUND    TELLY ON LOW, MAGGIE TAPPING FURIOUSLY AWAY ON COMPUTER MAGGIE    Bastards!  Fucking evil empire bastards!  They just wait until I'm in hospital, and change the rates on me again! SATAN    [clears throat] MAGGIE    One minute - I have to update my sodding bid structure.  Again. SATAN    What? MAGGIE    Business.  And... there.  Good for now. SATAN    Well, um.  [a bit cowed]  The bet. MAGGIE    You have to admit, I got my bloody way. SATAN    Yes.  Very well too.  MAGGIE    So I win, do I? SATAN    Oh... yes.  You're very impressive.  I'd almost offer you a job myself. MAGGIE    Come back in ten years, [fondly] you ponce.  So what, do we shake on it or somesuch? SATAN    Frankly, I'm rather fond of my fingers. MAGGIE    [laughs]  You have my oath I won't bite...  This time. SATAN    Right, then. SOUND    HESITATE, THEN A HANDSHAKE MAGGIE    Go on then.  I'm far too bloody busy to be swotting around all day with the likes of you.  SOUND    TAPS A FEW KEYS MAGGIE    [to computer]  What does that wanker bloody mean he forgot to pay me?  [aside]  There's some brownies there.  Drop round any time.  [back to computer, then fading out] Dammit!  Dammit it all to bloody buggery arse-face fucking donkey scrotum hell!!! CLOSER OLIVIA    Now that you know how to find us, you'll have to come back.  Maybe next week?  Don't be a stranger - we have enough of those already...  

Simon Marks Reporting
December 13, 2021 - AS IT BROKE: Sacoolas attorneys say no deal agreed on virtual trial in Harry Dunn case

Simon Marks Reporting

Play Episode Listen Later Dec 14, 2021 7:37


Simon's live report for Tom Swarbrick's late night programme on the UK's LBC.

Discovered Wordsmiths
Episode 80B – Jimmy Essien – Stuttering and Spiritual Writing

Discovered Wordsmiths

Play Episode Listen Later Dec 13, 2021 24:46


Overview This is an interesting discussion with Jimmy. We start by finding out that Jimmy used to stutter and used music to overcome that. This leads to a mind blowing bit of philosophy from Jimmy and how he views the spirituality of writing. YouTube https://youtu.be/BVb158MEbmk Transcript [00:02:45] Stephen: Alright, so let's talk some author stuff. So obviously we mentioned, we were talking about your books. You've learned a lot from when you were 10 years old and couldn't get past 30 pages tonight. You've got a book out, several books out. So what are [00:03:00] some of the. Biggest things you've learned that you're doing now that you didn't do when you first started 10 or more years ago. [00:03:07] Stephen: I think that [00:03:08] Jimmy: practice is really important. And I think I was maybe mentioning in our mastermind group the other day, Steven, that I wish that when I started writing, I had approached it more like I did music because when I was writing songs, I never really aspired to be a great guitar. I just want it to be a good enough guitarist so that I could play the songs that I heard in my mind. [00:03:35] Jimmy: And a lot of times I would hear songs in my mind that I didn't have the technical ability for on the guitar. So I would have to practice guitar. So it was very, it was a means to an end and a discipline. And I wished that I had approached writing in a similar way, 10 years ago to dress right scene after scene. [00:03:53] Jimmy: Because I need to be able to have the chops to write those stories that I see bloom in my [00:04:00] mind. And so I'm doing that. I'm doing that more now, but it would have been nice to have been doing that a lot earlier. [00:04:06] Stephen: Okay. You got to learn. Oh, we all have to start somewhere. And I think we all start at different spots, different places in our writing. [00:04:13] Stephen: When you're writing, what software and services do you use? [00:04:18] Jimmy: Scribner is indispensable for me. I actually use Scrivener for everything. I even use it for invoices for work and because it's just so easy for me to use and I use it for journaling every morning and yeah. So Scribner's the most important and yeah. [00:04:39] Jimmy: And then besides that, let's see what else. I haven't formatted a book in a little while. I think that I want to use, I think that I want to get a map. Just for the purpose of using vellum next time I've never used it, but I think I'm going to do that for the next, for that, for the next manuscript. [00:04:59] Stephen: And [00:05:00] arguably we both use the mastermind to not only keep us motivated, but accountable for our writing and to learn new things off of other writers. [00:05:09] Stephen: I think that is a tool. A lot of people overlook sometimes. [00:05:14] Jimmy: Yeah. The mastermind is huge. That's another thing to answer your previous. Question. What would you do if I went to the thing that I'm doing right now differently than I did 10 years ago is interacting with the community of writers. I had tried to in the past, I had joined writers groups in Portland and whatnot, but it just never really took. [00:05:36] Jimmy: Um, but yeah, using slack, like you're saying which slack is a great piece of software for keeping in touch with the community, like a topic based community. And so using a slack to kid to stay in touch with people that is, that's been really powerful. And then the mastermind, which is attached to slack also has been really good. [00:05:59] Stephen: [00:06:00] Yeah. Agreed very much. So. There's our shout out. Uh, everybody listening, go check out. Jay thorns, the author success mastermind. [00:06:08] Jimmy: Definitely. [00:06:10] Stephen: All right. So I always ask authors. Think of a topic to discuss something that has affected you, that other authors may be interested in. And we've already talked about you as a musician and losing your hearing and how that a...

Learn French with daily podcasts
Ils se sont mis d'accord (They agreed)

Learn French with daily podcasts

Play Episode Listen Later Dec 13, 2021 4:13


Texte:La France et l'Arabie Saoudite se sont mis d'accord pour faire davantage pour aider le peuple libanais, et travailler sur une solution à l'incident diplomatique entre Beyrouth et les Etats du Golfe.Traduction:rance and Saudi Arabia has agreed to do more to help the Lebanese population, and work to solving a diplomatic row between Beirut and the Gulf states.

Yusuf Circle Sheffield
FINAL Session 262 - Ali Ibn Abu Talib (ra)- Ali's (ra) blessed burial place is not agreed upon

Yusuf Circle Sheffield

Play Episode Listen Later Dec 10, 2021 52:16


Alee ibn Abu Talib (ra) final session 262. Alee's (ra) blessed burial place is not agreed upon but it is certainly not in Najaf. The four swords that Allah سُبْحَانَهُ وَتَعَالَى used. 1) Rasulullah ﷺ against the unbelievers 2) Abu Bakr (ra) against the apostates. 3) Umar (ra) against the People of the Book. 4) Alee (ra) against the rebels and extremists. Alee (ra) advises and warns all from the barzakh even after his passing. "....Ruin a house that is transient and build a house that will abide." Allah سُبْحَانَهُ وَتَعَالَى commands to Never Think or Say that the martyrs are dead!!! Rasulullah ﷺ asks for nothing except the love of his family (ra/a). Allah سُبْحَانَهُ وَتَعَالَى reveals multiple passages in praise of all the sahaba (ra/a). With the forerunners and vanguards in high esteem and Alee (ra) as one of them. Surah Al-Asr's deeper meaning translated by Rasulullah ﷺ exalting the Khilafat Rashideen and setting them as an exemplary to the ummah.

How Music Does That
The Bagpipe Incident on Which I Thought We Had Agreed Not to Dwell [Encore]

How Music Does That

Play Episode Listen Later Dec 8, 2021 19:37


30,000 people. 16 measures. One bad decision.

Hearts at Rest with Sarah Keeling
Advent Week 1 - Hope Prayer

Hearts at Rest with Sarah Keeling

Play Episode Listen Later Nov 30, 2021 8:00


Join us for a simple, but powerful time thinking about how Jesus is our Hope.Hope means to wait expectantly for something. Right now we are waiting expectantly for Christmas. We believe that Christmas will come.Just like we wait expectantly for Christmas, we wait expectantly to celebrate Jesus' birth.Jesus is our hope. Jesus is the thing that we are waiting for, because He is the BEST GIFT EVER.Because of what Jesus did for us, we know that we will get to be with God forever and ever. He is the rescue that God promised.When we believe and trust that Jesus came to earth, lived a perfect life, and died to save us, we are saved from our sins and we get to know God personally and be part of God's family.VersesLord God, you are my hope.I have trusted you since I was young,Psalm 71:5 (ICB)Now the men had said to her, “This oath you made us swear will not be binding on us unless, when we enter the land, you have tied this scarlet cord in the window through which you let us down, and unless you have brought your father and mother, your brothers and all your family into your house. If any of them go outside your house into the street, their blood will be on their own heads; we will not be responsible. As for those who are in the house with you, their blood will be on our head if a hand is laid on them. But if you tell what we are doing, we will be released from the oath you made us swear.”“Agreed,” she replied. “Let it be as you say.”So she sent them away, and they departed. And she tied the scarlet cord in the window.Joshua 2:17-21 (NIV)Define Hard Words*Hope - literally a cord (like the cord Rahab used)Waiting expectantly for God to do what He says He will doAsk Your Kids*How can you wait expectantly to celebrate Jesus' birth?*What are of your life are you having trouble waiting for God?Engage Your Kids*Read Joshua 2:17-21 as a family.*Explain that just like Rahab waited expectantly to be saved, we wait expectantly for Jesus.*Act out the story of Rahab putting the red cord in her window.ResourcesAccess all the Advent study resources here.

How To Love Lit Podcast
Walt Whitman - Leaves of Grass - The Moving Elegies For Abraham Lincoln

How To Love Lit Podcast

Play Episode Listen Later Nov 27, 2021 42:06


I'm Christy Shriver and we're here to discuss books that have changed the world and have changed us.  And I am Garry Shriver.  This is the How to Love Lit Podcast. This is our second episode discussing the bard of democracy, the great Walt Whitman.  Today we will feature one of his four poems honoring President Abraham Lincoln, but in order to understand why Whitman and many of us admire this great man, we want to revisit the  original 1855 edition of Leaves of Grass and listen to some of Whitman's observations of African Americans and slavery.  Christy, let's start this episode by reading and discussing two extracts from “I sing the Body Electric” , the ones where Whitman describes an African man and then an African woman at auction.    A man's body at auction,  (For before the war I often go to the slave-mart and watch the sale,)  I help the auctioneer, the sloven does not half know his business.    Gentlemen look on this wonder,  Whatever the bids of the bidders they cannot be high enough for it,  For it the globe lay preparing quintillions of years without one animal or plant,  For it the revolving cycles truly and steadily roll'd.  In this head the all-baffling brain,  In it and below it the makings of heroes.  Examine these limbs, red, black, or white, they are cunning in tendon and nerve,  They shall be stript that you may see them.  Exquisite senses, life-lit eyes, pluck, volition,  Flakes of breast-muscle, pliant backbone and neck, flesh not flabby, good-sized arms and legs,  And wonders within there yet.  Within there runs blood,  The same old blood! the same red-running blood!  There swells and jets a heart, there all passions, desires, reachings, aspirations,  (Do you think they are not there because they are not express'd in parlors and lecture-rooms?)  This is not only one man, this the father of those who shall be fathers in their turns,  In him the start of populous states and rich republics,  Of him countless immortal lives with countless embodiments and enjoyments.  How do you know who shall come from the offspring of his offspring through the centuries?  (Who might you find you have come from yourself, if you could trace back through the centuries?)    8    A woman's body at auction,  She too is not only herself, she is the teeming mother of mothers,  She is the bearer of them that shall grow and be mates to the mothers.  Have you ever loved the body of a woman?  Have you ever loved the body of a man?  Do you not see that these are exactly the same to all in all nations and times all over the earth?  If any thing is sacred the human body is sacred,  And the glory and sweet of a man is the token of manhood untainted,  And in man or woman a clean, strong, firm-fibred body, is more beautiful than the most beautiful face.  Have you seen the fool that corrupted his own live body? or the fool that corrupted her own live body?  For they do not conceal themselves, and cannot conceal themselves.  Whitman was raised a New York democrat, but his sympathies were with the Free Soil party that condemned the extension of slavery as a sin against God and a crime against man.  The Republican party would not exist until 1854, and Lincoln would be their presidential candidate in the election of 1860.  Of course, bear in mind, that the issues of those days are different than the issues of today, so the party names shouldn't be taken to represent modern day politics.      For Whitman it was undeniable for anyone with eyeballs that all men are born human and that implies certain things regardless if they are born  free or slave- of any race, creed or gender.  It is obvious to a man so aware of the physical body, that we are of the same atom-  the magnificence of the body proclaims our humanity- and ironically where on earth could this magnificence be most easily seen than at a slave auction like what he witnessed during his New Orleans days. In all of its ruthless degradation it ironically showcased the magnificence of the human body.  It's why Whitman could say, almost sarcastically- I am a better salesman of slaves than the auctioneer-I know and understand the beauty and value of what you are selling and you don't- you fool.   Whitman was the poet of the democratic soul- we are after all leaves of grass, but he was also the poet of the body- that physical form we are all chained to.  For Whitman, to be a human was to understand and be okay with one's physical body- and it is a holy thing. Our souls inhabit a sanctified space on earth- that of the body- be it man or woman- the pigmentation of flesh was just one of many individual and unique features- for Whitman our bodies is the starting point for equality- we are all wedded to one.      It doesn't seem radical to us now, but at that time in history- even talking about the body like that was revolutionary- almost vulgar- Whitman democratically equates the man with the woman with the black with the white.  In 1855, this was not self-evident anywhere else in the United States of America or really anywhere on planet earth.      By 1855, Walt Whitman knew his country was falling apart.  He understood that the ideals on which the great American experiment were founded were being overwhelmed by all kinds of forces, not least of which was plain ordinary corruption.  In his mind, what the world needed was repentance- a total course correction- a return to the original ideals and this was going to happen through conversion to a different set of moral ideals- he wanted to convince America to revisit and embrace all these original self-evident democratic ideals by reading and absorbing Leaves of Grass.  He really truly believed if people would just read his book, they would stop hating each other.    Well, it's a nice thought, however slightly unrealistic…especially in light of the single digit sales of that first edition.  But even if he had gotten everyone to read his book, it was a tall order.  By 1860, any kind of peaceful coming together seemed unrealistic.  America was on the brink of war and violence was springing up.  John Brown is one notable example; in an attempt to free slaves through violence he and a small gang stormed Harper's Ferry.  They were captured, tried and condemned to death, but this event inflamed the country and raised the stakes for the upcoming presidential election.  A few months after Brown was executed, the democratic party, split between pro and- anti- slavery factions, was to confront a new political party- one that had never existed before, the Republican party. It had nominated a Southern born anti-slavery man from Illinois, a lawyer who had never attended school but who was known as honest Abe.  A newspaper in South Carolina put it this way “the irrepressible conflict is about to be vised upon us through the Black Republican nominee and his fanatical diabolical Republican party.”    Walt Whitman did not see Lincoln as an instigator of a conflict.  Whitman saw him almost as an extension of himself- a mediator.  He really believed Lincoln was going to bring healing  and unity through politics something he had tried and failed to do through poetry.      I'm not sure which is the greater challenge= trying to unify  a group of people through poetry or politics!!      Ha! True but Whitman was paying attention to what Lincoln was saying and he identified with him.  He saw himself in Lincoln.  They both came from poor families. Neither had formal education.  One thing that is interesting, Lincoln was from the West, and Whitman believed the hope of America was in the West.  Both men believed in democracy to the core, but also- both believed in unity.  Whitman saw Lincoln as America's hope.    Although, he was likely the most hated man of his age in some corners, but the only hope of America in others.  Lincoln wanted first and foremost to be a unifier.  He had been elected with only around 40% of the popular vote, although he did get a majority of the electoral college votes.  There was no question America was deeply divided.  He wanted not just to save the physical boundaries of America, but he wanted to heal the wounds that were making people hate each other.  Lincoln's father was anti-slavery and raised in an anti-slavery Baptist congregation.   Lincoln But his mother was from a Kentucky slaveholding family.  Lincoln later recalled that the reason his father left Kentucky and the South because of his strong feelings about slavery. Lincoln himself saw many cruel things while visiting his grandparents, not the least of these being once when an African-American family was separated on a boat and sold to different owners.  He later recalled that ‘the sight was a continual torment to me…having the power of making me miserable.”  However, Lincoln's mother's family were people he knew intimately, and somehow he understood how someone could support slavery and not be an evil person.  This sounds crazy to us and difficult to understand, but Lincoln expressed on more than one occasion to men across the North that if they had been born in those circumstances in that place and in that world, they likely would have had those same views.  This way of seeing one's fellow man is more radical than most of us can even comprehend.  It's a strange idea to assert that a person could believe something is morally wrong so strongly that he would be willing to lead a nation to war to end it, but simultaneously judge the perpetrators of this evil redeemable human beings.  95% of humans today can't think like that-       Well, it's something Whitman could do as well.  Whitman didn't fight in the Civil War, but his brother George did.  His brother fought for the Union.  Whitman's significant other fought for the Confederacy at one point.     The first shots of the Civil War were fired by the South on Fort Sumter in Charleston, SC, in April of 1861.  Lincoln had been president for just a few weeks.       In December of 1862, Whitman saw his brother's name on a list of casualities.  He got on a train and headed South to look for him. He ended up in Fredericksburg.  The good news was his brother had only suffered a flesh wound.  But outside the hospital Whitman saw something that struck horror and terror into his being.  Let me read his words after he came to the building being used as a hospital, he saw, “a heap of amputated feet, legs, arms, hands, etc….a full load for a one-horse cart…human fragments, cut bloody, black and blue, swelled and sickening…nearby were several dead bodes each covered with its brown woolen blanket.”  Now you have to remember, think about Leaves of Grass and “I sing the Body Electric”.  This is a man who had been trying to convince America to celebrate our bodies- all of our bodies- we read just the excert about African-Americans, but he celebrated all bodies and wanted us to see ourselves in other people's bodies- to recognize the sanctity in all bodies- and here he's staring at these body parts scattered around, cut off and thrown into piles.  I can't even imagine how things would smell.      Whitman's reaction to what he saw on the battlefields and field hospitals of Frederickburg, led him to a decision that altered the course of his life.  It would lead him to move to Washington DC and honestly, his war actions to me make him something of a saint.  Just in Frederickburg, he stuck around to visit and help bury the dead of the over 18,000 dead soldiers that were just lying on the ground.  But, then he started visiting hospitals.  These visits deeply affected him.  He had planned on going back to New York after he found his brother, but he couldn't do that anymore.  Instead he changed courses and went to Washington DC.  He got a job as a clerk where he would work during the day, but then he would spend the rest of his time in the hospitals.  And he would just sit with soldiers.  He didn't care if they were union of confederate.  He brought  with him bags of candy.  He wrote letters to their parents.  He played twenty questions.  If they wanted him to read the Bible, he read the Bible.  If they wanted a cigarette, he'd scrounge up a cigarette. Many of them were teenagers.  He kissed  and hugged them; he parented them in their final moments of life.  For many, he was the last tender face they would see on this earth.  The numbers range, but documentation reveals he visited and helped anywhere from 80-100,000 soldiers.      Let me interrupt you for a second to highlight how bad it was to be in a hospital during this time period.  No one at this time understood the importance of anticeptics or the need to be clean.  The Union Army lost 300,000 lives in combat.  But, they experienced an estimated 6,400,000 cases of illnesses, wound and injuries.  Hospitals were filthy and dangerous places.      For many of those young men, Whitman was the last touch of kindness they would ever experience on this earth.  He said later that those years of hospital service were and I quote, “the greatest privilege and satisfaction..and, of course, the most profound lesson of my life.”  He usually left the hospital at night and slept in a room he rented but if a soldier needed him or asked him to stay, he would often stay up all night with wounded and dying men and then head from the hospital to the office.  Here are his words "While I was with wounded and sick in thousands of cases from the New England States, and from New York, New Jersey, and Pennsylvania, and from Michigan, Wisconsin, Ohio, Indiana, Illinois, and all the Western States, I was with more or less from all the States, North and South, without exception… "I was with many rebel officers and men among our wounded, and gave them always what I had, and tried to cheer them the same as any. . . . Among the black soldiers, wounded or sick, and in the contraband camps, I also took my way whenever in their neighborhood, and did what I could for them.”        Well, let me also say that Washington DC was a nasty place to be living at that time.  Physically, it was a construction zone, nothing like the beautiful collection of buildings and streets designed by the French architect Pierre L Enfant that we see today.   It was muddy; it noisy; it was full of the noises of building and killing.  It was political.  Abraham Lincoln stated that during those days, “If there is a worse place than Hell, I am in it.”      Dang, because DC, the city, was so bad?    Because being president in the Civil War was so bad.  Lincoln had a different view of his role of leadership than most people today understand.  And we need to go back to when he was elected in 1860.  The country was divided- and even if you didn't believe in slavery, the question of how to get rid of it wasn't something people agreed on.  Many thought it should just be abolished. Others thought you should just keep it from expanding and let it die slowly.   Lincoln was surrounded by people on all sides who all wanted him to have “bold leadership”- do radical things- whatever those were to them- but Lincoln liked to respond to his critics by referencing an entertainer who was known for tight walking over water.  Sometimes, he even would push a wheelbarrow across these ropes; one time he stopped in the middle of the river to eat an omelete on his tightrope, sometimes he'd carry someone on his back- all crazy stunts that didn't seem survivable.  Lincoln had seen him perform walking a tight rope across Niagara falls and he thought it was a perfect metaphor for how he saw himself.  Let me quote Lincoln here- the artist went by the name Blondin. Suppose,” Lincoln said, “that all the material values in this great country of ours, from the Atlantic to the Pacific—its wealth, its prosperity, its achievements in the present and its hopes for the future—could all have been concentrated and given to Blondin to carry over that awful crossing.” Suppose “you had been standing upon the shore as he was going over, as he was carefully feeling his way along and balancing his pole with all his most delicate skill over the thundering cataract. Would you have shouted at him, ‘Blondin, a step to the right!' ‘Blondin, a step to the left!' or would you have stood there speechless and held your breath and prayed to the Almighty to guide and help him safely through the trial?”    Lincoln saw himself on a tight rope and going too far one way or the other would make the entire thing collapse.  He wasn't trying to crush and destroy his fellow man, even his Southern brother,  although he was trying to win the war and emancipate the slaves, which he did do.  He was trying to heal a nation- to bring brother back to brother.  And we must never forget that brothers WERE literally killing their brothers.  Uniting and building a country that was this morally divided was a seemingly impossible task- and he could see from his perch in Washington that this was hell.    Whitman would stop to see him going in and out of the White House.  This was in the days when you could do that.  They didn't even have secret service for the president. Whitman looked at Lincoln and saw sadness in his eyes.  But Whitman always believed Lincoln was the right man.  If anyone could bring America together, it was Lincoln. Lincoln didn't hate his enemy.  He loved his enemy.  Just like Whitman.  This was the attitude where Whitman saw hope and a future as he sat with both confederate and Union soldier, black soldiers and white soldiers, mending their wounds, writing their final farewells.      But make no mistake, Lincoln was committed to emancipation and as the war came to the end and reconstruction was in sight, he was preparing America to grant full citizenship that included voting rights to All American males- including African-American ones.  In one letter he said, “I am naturally anti-slavery.  If slavery is not wrong; nothing is wrong.  I cannot remember when I did not think so, and feel so”.     And yet this is the same man who could say during his second inaugural address, one month before General Lee will surrender at Appomatox and 41 days before he will be murdered…     With malice toward none; with charity for all; with firmness in the right, as God gives us to see the right, let us strive on to finish the work we are in; to bind up the nation's wounds; to care for him who shall have borne the battle, and for his widow, and his orphan -- to achieve and cherish a lasting peace among ourselves and with the world. to do all which may achieve and cherish a just, and a lasting peace, among ourselves, and with the world. all nations.    There was one man in the crowd that day, who was actually so close to Lincoln he shows up in the inauguaration picture.  This man heard those words and was committed to stopping Lincoln from fulfilling this pledge.  John Wilkes Booth was standing not far from Lincoln that day.  On April 11, what we now know was to be his last speech, Lincoln called for black suffrage.  Booth was in the audience that day as well, after hearing Lincoln make that statement Booth is known to have said, “that is the last speech he will ever make.”    On that fateful day, April 15, 1865 Whitman was visiting his family.  However, his significant other, Peter Doyle was in Washington DC and heard that the president was going to Ford's theater to see a performance of the comedy “My American Cousin.”  It was Good Friday, the sacred day where Christians celebrate the crucifixion of Jesus Christ.  This is what Peter Doyle  said later about what happened that evening.     I heard that the President and his wife would be present and made up my mind to go. There was a great crowd in the building. I got into the second gallery. There was nothing extraordinary in the performance. I saw everything on the stage and was in a good position to see the President's box. I heard the pistol shot. I had no idea what it was, what it meant—it was sort of muffled. I really knew nothing of what had occurred until Mrs. Lincoln leaned out of the box and cried, "The President is shot!" I needn't tell you what I felt then, or saw. It is all put down in Walt's piece—that piece is exactly right. I saw Booth on the cushion of the box, saw him jump over, saw him catch his foot, which turned, saw him fall on the stage. He got up on his feet, cried out something which I could not hear for the hub-hub and disappeared. I suppose I lingered almost the last person. A soldier came into the gallery, saw me still there, called to me: "Get out of here! we're going to burn this damned building down!" I said: "If that is so I'll get out!"     Whitman used Doyle's account to help pen the only poem that I know of where Whitman  used traditional poetic forms.  It is an Elegy for the death of Abraham Lincoln, titled “O Captain My Captain”.  He actually wrote two elegies- one speaking for the nation- in the voice of a common sailor- it he wrote in a formal style of poetry acceptable to the people of his day.  The second, in some ways more personal because it is in a style similar to what we see in the rest of Leaves of Grass.  The second poem, When Lilacs …”is often thought be be written after O Captain” Although I'm not sure it is.  It is more epic in its feeling- it uses symbols that are more archetypal and timeless- although that term wasn't invented in his day.  In O Captain my Captain, Whitman takes on the persona of a soldier, a sailor.  In the second, he uses his own voice- that universal “I” like we see in Song of Myself.  We don't have time to read the entirely of “O Lilacs When Lilacs Last in the Dooryard Bloom' , it has over 200 lines, but we can Read a little bit of it.  Instead we will focus on the only poem anthologized during Whitman's lifetime- O Captain my Captain.    The one I know from that famous scene in Dead Poet's Society where the students stand for their fallen teacher, John Keating, immortalized by Robin Williams.     Agreed- I can't read this poem without thinking of Robin Williams, but we should probably try since we spent quite a bit of time setting up the image of Lincoln.       O Captain! my Captain! our fearful trip is done,  The ship has weather'd every rack, the prize we sought is won,  The port is near, the bells I hear, the people all exulting,  While follow eyes the steady keel, the vessel grim and daring;                           But O heart! heart! heart!                              O the bleeding drops of red,                                 Where on the deck my Captain lies,                                    Fallen cold and dead.    O Captain! my Captain! rise up and hear the bells;  Rise up—for you the flag is flung—for you the bugle trills,  For you bouquets and ribbon'd wreaths—for you the shores a-crowding,  For you they call, the swaying mass, their eager faces turning;                           Here Captain! dear father!                              This arm beneath your head!                                 It is some dream that on the deck,                                   You've fallen cold and dead.    My Captain does not answer, his lips are pale and still,  My father does not feel my arm, he has no pulse nor will,  The ship is anchor'd safe and sound, its voyage closed and done,  From fearful trip the victor ship comes in with object won;                           Exult O shores, and ring O bells!                              But I with mournful tread,                                 Walk the deck my Captain lies,                                    Fallen cold and dead.    As we have clearly expressed, Whitman the defender of the common man, does not usually elevate one person over another- but For Lincoln he makes a notable exception.  O Captain my Captain is written from the point of view of an insider. We can imagine a young soldier, a sailor.   He's on the ship- Of course, the captain is President Lincoln- the ship is the country.  The tone is one of exultation then distress.  We had finished- the fearful trip was done!!!  We had made it then….    Christy, and it's important to note that it WAS done.  Lincoln did bring that ship to harbor.  On April 2, right before he died on the 11th The confederacy vacated Richmond.  On April 4, President Lincoln together with his ten year old son Tad walked through the streets and into Jefferson Davis' office.  “Admiral Porter who was with him had this to say, “No electric wire could have carried the news of the President's arrival sooner than it was circulated through Richmond.  As far as the eye could see the streets were alive with negroes and poor whites rushing in our direction, and the crowd increased so fast that I had to surround the President with sailors with fixed bayonets to keep them off.  They all wanted to shake hand with Mr. Lincoln or his coat tail or even to kneel and kiss his boots.”  Later on Admiral Porter said this, “I should have preferred to see the President of the United States entering the subjugated stronghold of the rebel with an escort more befitting his high station, yet that would have looked as if he came as a conqueror to exult over a brave but fallen enemy.  He came instead as a peacemaker, his hand extended to all who desired to take it.”  Christy, at one point, it is said that an older African American gentleman bowed before Lincoln and Lincoln went to the man, took him by the hand and raised him up and told him he didn't need to kneel to anyone, he was a free man.  I cannot imagine the emotion.    And so we try to imagine the emotion – after so much carnage, who could walk the tightright and heal the utter hatred still inherent in the heart of both victor and defeated.  Notice there is meter, each stanza is composed of iambs which may or may not mean anything to you.  It just means there's a beat- like a drum beat, like a heart beat- “The ship has wethered every rack, the prize we sought is won.  The people are exalting.    But then he dies…in the first two stanzas, the boy addresses the captain as someone still alive, but by the third stanza he has accepted the reality.  And of course, this is exactly has grief strikes.  We never accept it initially, at least I have that problem.  I'll share my personal experiences in a different episode, but it's natural.  He says, “Rise up, Father.”  We feel a sense of desperation- the idea- of = no,  no, no, this can't be happening.  It's not possible.  Not now. Not after all of this.   But by the third stanza, the sailor unwillingly switches to the third person.  My captain does not answer, his lips are pale and still.”   There is a sense of intimacy, “MY father does not feel my arm, he has no pulse nor will”.  We also see that that formality of the meter breaks down in that last line, “Fallen cold and dead”.  The sailor has broken down.   America is not just devastated because their leader is dead, but they are now vulnerable- what's going to happen to us.  Who can lead us?  Who can walk the tightrope?    And that of course, is the ultimate tragedy.   We will never know what might have been had he lived to complete his second term, but one statesman grasped fully the tragedy when he predicted that “the development of things will teach us to mourn him doubly.”  And of course he was right, even Jefferson Davis, the leader of the conferederacy, although I point out that Lincoln never one time acknowledged him as preside,  bemoaned Lincoln's death after losing the war and for good reason.  After Lincoln''s death, profiteers, corruption and all kinds of chaos descended on America.  Grant, who was a sincere and an incredible advocate for African Americans, was able to defeat the confederate armies but not able to contain the host of corruption that plagued our nation during reconstruction.    And so we end with Whitman's final poem- his most personal tribute to Lincoln and the one that many consider the better if less famous work, “When Lilacs Last in the Dooryard Bloom”.  In this poem, Whitman reverts to his usual style of free verse and strong metaphors.  It's beautiful and for me, it's where we see the universal truth of lost moral leadership and grief emerge- he expresses loss well beyond the moment of Lincoln.  Let's read just the first little bit.  It's long, and references the journey of Lincoln's casket to its final resting place without ever mentioning Lincoln's name.     When lilacs last in the dooryard bloom'd,  And the great star early droop'd in the western sky in the night,  I mourn'd, and yet shall mourn with ever-returning spring.    Ever-returning spring, trinity sure to me you bring,  Lilac blooming perennial and drooping star in the west,  And thought of him I love.    2  O powerful western fallen star!  O shades of night—O moody, tearful night!  O great star disappear'd—O the black murk that hides the star!  O cruel hands that hold me powerless—O helpless soul of me!  O harsh surrounding cloud that will not free my soul.    There are three big symbols in this poem= the lilacs, the sun and then a bird.  But since we read only the first two stanzas, I want to focus on those.  Lilacs are flowers that have a strong smell and were blooming at the time of Lincoln's death.  They are beautiful, but they also return every spring.  The star is an obvious symbol for Lincoln.  I want to point out that Whitman never really used stars as positive images for leaders because he didn't like the idea of a ruler just hoarding over us- but again, in this case, he made an exception.  Lincoln was the powerful star- and of course, we are left to answer, why would a man, so bent on equality of humans, elevate this one man- the only man he would elevate- it wasn't just because he was the president.  It was because he embodied what a great leader truly was- and this is the nice idea that I think resonates through the ages.      Agreed, average leaders and I will say most leaders give lip service to serving all people, but we can see by their actions, that a lot of that is propaganda.  Most are in it to win it.  It's easy to get to the top and view oneself as better than the rest of us.  It's just natural to do what's best for me or my team, so to speak.  It's natural to want to put enemies in submission- prove own own power and greatness.  But Lincoln was different- his compassion for his enemy, his unwavering commitment to integrity, his ability to see beyond his current moment, is a star- something that outlasts us all.  The South as well as the North mourned deeply Lincoln's loss.  The procession described in this poem where the casket was taken from Washington DC back to Illinois was something that had never happened in the history of the United States and has not happened since.      It is a legacy of leadership that Whitman not only admired but also immortalized.  It's also a legacy that I find inspiring no matter how great or small our little ships are, if we are ever called to be a captain.  It's something to think about when we smell lilacs in the Spring.  For Whitman every time we smelled those flowers, we grieve, but also we remember- because just as lilacs return every Spring, so does a new opportunity- the end of the Lilac poem looks to the future.  In another of Whitman's great poems, “Crossing Brooklyn Ferry” he says this, “We use you, and do not cast you aside-we plant you          permanently within us,       We fathom you not-we love you-there is perfection in          you also,       You furnish your parts toward eternity,       Great or small, you furnish your parts toward the soul.”  It's a nice idea, Lincoln was a man, but for Whitman he embodied an ideal we can all aspire to: integrity, humility, compassion and grace- in defeat and death but also in victory.  Whitman believed in those ideals in leadership- leadership that embraces those things can lead a ship to harbor in scary waters.  Perhaps, when we smell the lilacs, we can be reminded that those ideals are also planted in us.     Thanks for listening.  We hope you enjoyed our discussions of Walt Whitman.  Next episode, we will look farther into the American past to even deeper roots of democracy on the American continent, the Iroquois constitution.  So, thanks for listening, as always please share a link to our podcast to a friend or friends.  Push it out on your social media platforms via twitter, Instagram, facebook or linked in.  Text an episode to a friend, and if you are an educator, visit our website for instructional resources.  Peace out.                 

iFL TV Boxing Podcast
Teofimo Lopez reveals Haney fight is 'agreed', goes in on Taylor & reacts to beef with Kambosos jr

iFL TV Boxing Podcast

Play Episode Listen Later Nov 26, 2021 5:30


Teofimo Lopez reveals Haney fight is 'agreed', goes in on Taylor & reacts to beef with Kambosos jr

Sports Open Line
SOL: The NFL agreed to settle St. Louis lawsuit for $790 million

Sports Open Line

Play Episode Listen Later Nov 25, 2021 41:27


Tonight's Sports Open Line is shortened due to KMOX's broadcast of the Billikens game in Cancun! Joe Pott fills in for Kevin Wheeler in tonight's show, and speaks with Derrick Goold, Lead Cardinals beat writer for St. Louis Post-Dispatch, to discuss the signing of left-hander, Steven Matz. Later, Ray'Sean Taylor, SIUE Freshman and point guard for the men's basketball team, joins to talk on his experience playing division one basketball. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Simple English News Daily
Thursday 25th November 2021. World News. Today: UK France migrant disaster. Germany coalition agreed. Sweden female PM or not. Nigeria givin

Simple English News Daily

Play Episode Listen Later Nov 24, 2021 8:02


World News in 7 minutes. Thursday 25th November 2021.Transcript at: send7.org/transcripts Please help to support the podcast by giving what you would spend on a cup of coffee just once a month at send7.org/supportToday: UK France migrant disaster. Germany coalition agreed. Sweden female PM or not. Nigeria giving away money. Ethiopia at war. Tanzania education for mothers. India no crypto. Solomon Islands protests. Ecuador prison pardons. US Arbery killers guilty. And an asteroid attack. Send your opinion or experience by email to podcast@send7.org or send an audio message at send7.org for us to broadcast. Please help to support the podcast by giving what you would spend on a cup of coffee just once a month at send7.org/supportWith Stephen Devincenzi.SEND7 (Simple English News Daily in 7 minutes) tells the most important world news stories in intermediate English. Every day, listen to the most important stories from every part of the world in slow, clear English. Whether you are an intermediate learner trying to improve your advanced, technical and business English, or if you are a native speaker who just wants to hear a summary of world news as fast as possible, this podcast is for you. Transcripts are totally free and can be found at send7.org/transcripts. Simple English News Daily is the perfect way to start your day, by practising your listening skills and understanding complicated stories in a simple way. It is also highly valuable for IELTS and TOEFL students. Students, teachers, and people with English as a second language, tell us that they listen to SEND7 because they can learn English through hard topics, but simple grammar. We believe that the best way to improve your spoken English is to immerse yourself in real-life content, such as what our podcast provides. SEND7 covers all news including politics, business, natural events and human rights. Whether it is happening in Europe, Africa, Asia, the Americas or Oceania, you will hear it on SEND7, and you will understand it. For more information visit send7.org/contact

The Marc Cox Morning Show
MCMS: 'I love that she agreed with my brilliance'

The Marc Cox Morning Show

Play Episode Listen Later Nov 24, 2021 34:37


Hour 3: Marc is joined by the attorney who fought and won the fight against health boards mandating masks unlawfully in a Missouri county. Benjamin Brown, owner of Satchmo's Bar & Grill and one of the plaintiffs in the case, joins to talk the victory and how it'll benefit local business. Marc honors the Belleville Police Department in today's First Responder's Spotlight.  See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

East Coast Breakfast with Darren Maule
Can you believe the team all agreed on one thing this morning?

East Coast Breakfast with Darren Maule

Play Episode Listen Later Nov 23, 2021 2:41


Good Mauling from this side of KZN where the weather is beautiful. The team are all delighted this morning by one specific thing. They all have agreed on it and it was quite surprising to hear them all be on the same side for once.

Business Halacha Daily
Is it Permitted to Repay a Loan in Full When the Lender Mistakenly Gave Less than was Agreed Upon?

Business Halacha Daily

Play Episode Listen Later Nov 17, 2021 5:27


Questions? Comments? We love feedback! Email us at info@baishavaad.org

The World View with Adam Gilchrist
The World View - Covid vax copies Pfizer has agreed a major deal with developing countries

The World View with Adam Gilchrist

Play Episode Listen Later Nov 17, 2021 5:05


Military Clashes at The Border Between Armenia & Azerbaijan. Armchair liars most of us pretend to have watched hit TV shows. While others lie about never having watched them.   See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Brendan O'Connor
COP 26 Concludes with a 'Landmark' pact agreed

Brendan O'Connor

Play Episode Listen Later Nov 14, 2021 3:55


Philip Boucher-Hayes reports on the COP 26 conference which concludes with a landmark pact having been agreed.

Newshour
Global climate deal agreed at COP26

Newshour

Play Episode Listen Later Nov 13, 2021 48:32


The UN Climate Summit in Glasgow has adopted a new pact aimed at curbing global warming. The British hosts stressed that the deal would keep within reach the goal of keeping temperature rises to 1.5 degrees Celsius, but many countries said the final text had been watered down. The main target of criticism was India's lobbying to change the expression 'phasing out' to 'phasing down' the use of coal. Also in the programme: Belarus says it's delivering aid to migrants at its border who are trying to cross into Poland; and doctors in Sudan say the security forces have killed at least five protesters during the latest rally against military rule. (Image: The president of the COP26 climate summit, Alok Sharma. Credit: Epa/Robert Perry)

VPR News Podcast
Reporter debrief: Why the Scott administration reversed course, agreed to emergency motel housing through March 1

VPR News Podcast

Play Episode Listen Later Nov 12, 2021 4:31


On Wednesday afternoon, the Scott administration announced a major change to its emergency housing program. Starting Nov. 22, all Vermonters experiencing homelessness will gain access to free motel housing until at least March 1.The decision follows a month long debate over Vermont's emergency housing policy.

The Bert Show
Her Husband Agreed To An Open Relationship...But She's Already Been Dating Other People!

The Bert Show

Play Episode Listen Later Nov 11, 2021 8:12


She wanted an open relationship, and her husband finally agreed to it! What he didn't realize at the time was that she had started it a couple of months ago without him knowing...and it was with one of their mutual FRIENDS. If that wasn't enough, what she did with this guy next just crossed the line. Keity explains what's going down with her friend:  See acast.com/privacy for privacy and opt-out information. Become a member at https://plus.acast.com/s/the-bert-show.

Screaming in the Cloud
The Future of Google Cloud with Richard Seroter

Screaming in the Cloud

Play Episode Listen Later Nov 11, 2021 40:47


About RichardHe's also an instructor at Pluralsight, a frequent public speaker, and the author of multiple books on software design and development. Richard maintains a regularly updated blog (seroter.com) on topics of architecture and solution design and can be found on Twitter as @rseroter. Links: Twitter: https://twitter.com/rseroter LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/seroter Seroter.com: https://seroter.com TranscriptAnnouncer: Hello, and welcome to Screaming in the Cloud with your host, Chief Cloud Economist at The Duckbill Group, Corey Quinn. This weekly show features conversations with people doing interesting work in the world of cloud, thoughtful commentary on the state of the technical world, and ridiculous titles for which Corey refuses to apologize. This is Screaming in the Cloud.Corey: This episode is sponsored in part by our friends at Vultr. Spelled V-U-L-T-R because they're all about helping save money, including on things like, you know, vowels. So, what they do is they are a cloud provider that provides surprisingly high performance cloud compute at a price that—while sure they claim its better than AWS pricing—and when they say that they mean it is less money. Sure, I don't dispute that but what I find interesting is that it's predictable. They tell you in advance on a monthly basis what it's going to going to cost. They have a bunch of advanced networking features. They have nineteen global locations and scale things elastically. Not to be confused with openly, because apparently elastic and open can mean the same thing sometimes. They have had over a million users. Deployments take less that sixty seconds across twelve pre-selected operating systems. Or, if you're one of those nutters like me, you can bring your own ISO and install basically any operating system you want. Starting with pricing as low as $2.50 a month for Vultr cloud compute they have plans for developers and businesses of all sizes, except maybe Amazon, who stubbornly insists on having something to scale all on their own. Try Vultr today for free by visiting: vultr.com/screaming, and you'll receive a $100 in credit. Thats v-u-l-t-r.com slash screaming.Corey: You know how git works right?Announcer: Sorta, kinda, not really Please ask someone else!Corey: Thats all of us. Git is how we build things, and Netlify is one of the best way I've found to build those things quickly for the web. Netlify's git based workflows mean you don't have to play slap and tickle with integrating arcane non-sense and web hooks, which are themselves about as well understood as git. Give them a try and see what folks ranging from my fake Twitter for pets startup, to global fortune 2000 companies are raving about. If you end up talking to them, because you don't have to, they get why self service is important—but if you do, be sure to tell them that I sent you and watch all of the blood drain from their faces instantly. You can find them in the AWS marketplace or at www.netlify.com. N-E-T-L-I-F-Y.comCorey: Welcome to Screaming in the Cloud. I'm Corey Quinn. Once upon a time back in the days of VH1, which was like MTV except it played music videos, would have a show that was, “Where are they now?” Looking at former celebrities. I will not use the term washed up because that's going to be insulting to my guest.Richard Seroter is a returning guest here on Screaming in the Cloud. We spoke to him a year ago when he was brand new in his role at Google as director of outbound product management. At that point, he basically had stars in his eyes and was aspirational around everything he wanted to achieve. And now it's a year later and he has clearly failed because it's Google. So, outbound products are clearly the things that they are going to be deprecating, and in the past year, I am unaware of a single Google Cloud product that has been outright deprecated. Richard, thank you for joining me, and what do you have to say for yourself?Richard: Yeah, “Where are they now?” I feel like I'm the Leif Garrett of cloud here, joining you. So yes, I'm still here, I'm still alive. A little grayer after twelve months in, but happy to be here chatting cloud, chatting whatever else with you.Corey: I joke a little bit about, “Oh, Google winds up killing things.” And let's be clear, your consumer division which, you know, Google is prone to that. And understanding a company's org chart is a challenge. A year or two ago, I was of the opinion that I didn't need to know anything about Google Cloud because it would probably be deprecated before I really had to know about it. My opinion has evolved considerably based upon a number of things I'm seeing from Google.Let's be clear here, I'm not saying this to shine you on or anything like that; it's instead that I've seen some interesting things coming out of Google that I consider to be the right moves. One example of that is publicly signing multiple ten-year deals with very large, serious institutions like Deutsche Bank, and others. Okay, you don't generally sign contracts with companies of that scale and intend not to live up to them. You're hiring Forrest Brazeal as your head of content for Google Cloud, which is not something you should do lightly, and not something that is a short-term play in any respect. And the customer experience has continued to improve; Google Cloud products have not gotten worse, and I'm seeing in my own customer conversations that discussions about Google Cloud have become significantly less dismissive than they were over the past year. Please go ahead and claim credit for all of that.Richard: Yeah. I mean, the changes a year ago when I joined. So, Thomas Kurian has made a huge impact on some of that. You saw us launch the enterprise APIs thing a while back, which was, “Hey, here's, for the most part, every one of our products that has a fixed API. We're not going to deprecate it without a year's notice, whatever it is. We're not going to make certain types of changes.” Maybe that feels like, “Well, you should have had that before.” All right, all we can do is improve things moving forward. So, I think that was a good change.Corey: Oh, I agree. I think that was a great thing to do. You had something like 80-some-odd percent coverage of Google Cloud services, and great, that's going to only increase with time, I can imagine. But I got a little pushback from a few Googlers for not being more congratulatory towards them for doing this, and look, it's a great thing. Don't get me wrong, but you don't exactly get a whole lot of bonus points and kudos and positive press coverage—not that I'm press—for doing the thing you should have been doing [laugh] all along.It's, “This is great. This is necessary.” And it demonstrates a clear awareness that there was—rightly or wrongly—a perception issue around the platform's longevity and that you've gone significantly out of your way to wind up addressing that in ways that go far beyond just yelling at people on Twitter they don't understand the true philosophy of Google Cloud, which is the right thing to do.Richard: Yeah, I mean, as you mentioned, look, the consumer side is very experimental in a lot of cases. I still mourn Google Reader. Like, those things don't matter—Corey: As do we all.Richard: Of course. So, I get that. Google Cloud—and of course we have the same cultural thing, but at the same time, there's a lifecycle management that's different in Google Cloud. We do not deprecate products that much. You know, enterprises make decade-long bets. I can't be swap—changing databases or just turning off messaging things. Instead, we're building a core set of things and making them better.So, I like the fact that we have a pretty stable portfolio that keeps getting a little bit bigger. Not crazy bigger; I like that we're not just throwing everything out there saying, “Rock on.” We have some opinions. But I think that's been a positive trend, customers seem to like that we're making these long-term bets. We're not going anywhere for a long time and our earnings quarter after quarter shows it—boy, this will actually be a profitable business pretty soon.Corey: Oh, yeah. People love to make hay, and by people, I stretch the term slightly and talk about, “Investment analysts say that Google Cloud is terrible because at your last annual report you're losing something like $5 billion a year on Google Cloud.” And everyone looked at me strangely, when I said, “No, this is terrific. What that means is that they're investing in the platform.” Because let's be clear, folks at Google tend to be intelligent, by and large, or at least intelligent enough that they're not going to start selling cloud services for less than it costs to run them.So yeah, it is clearly an investment in the platform and growth of it. The only way it should be turning a profit at this point is if there's no more room to invest that money back into growing the platform, given your market position. I think that's a terrific thing, and I'm not worried at all about it losing money. I don't think anyone should be.Richard: Yeah, I mean, strategically, look, this doesn't have to be the same type of moneymaker that even some other clouds have to be to their portfolio. Look, this is an important part, but you look at those ten-year deals that we've been signing: when you look at Univision, that's a YouTube partnership; you look at Ford that had to do with Android Auto; you look at these others, this is where us being also a consumer and enterprise SaaS company is interesting because this isn't just who's cranking out the best IaaS. I mean, that can be boring stuff over time. It's like, who's actually doing the stuff that maybe makes a traditional company more interesting because they partner on some of those SaaS services. So, those are the sorts of deals and those sorts of arrangements where cloud needs to be awesome, and successful, and make money, doesn't need to be the biggest revenue generator for Google.Corey: So, when we first started talking, you were newly minted as a director of outbound product management. And now, you are not the only one, there are apparently 60 of you there, and I'm no closer to understanding what the role encompasses. What is your remit? Where do you start? Where do you stop?Richard: Yeah, that's a good question. So, there's outbound product management teams, mostly associated with the portfolio area. So network, storage, AI, analytics, database, compute, application modernization-y sort of stuff—which is what I cover—containers, dev tools, serverless. Basically, I am helping make sure the market understands the product and the product understands the market. And not to be totally glib, but a lot of that is, we are amplification.I'm amplifying product out to market, analysts, field people, partners: “Do you understand this thing? Can I help you put this in context?” But then really importantly, I'm trying to help make sure we're also amplifying the market back to our product teams. You're getting real customer feedback: “Do you know what that analyst thinks? Have you heard what happened in the competitive space?”And so sometimes companies seem to miss that, and PMs poke their head up when I'm about to plan a product or I'm about to launch a product because I need some feedback. But keeping that constant pulse on the market, on customers, on what's going on, I think that can be a secret weapon. I'm not sure everybody does that.Corey: Spending as much time as I do on bills, admittedly AWS bills, but this is a pattern that tends to unfold across every provider I've seen. The keynotes are chock-full of awesome managed service announcements, things that are effectively turnkey at further up the stack levels, but the bills invariably look a lot more like, yeah, we spend a bit of money on that and then we run 10,000 virtual instances in a particular environment and we just treat it like it's an extension of our data center. And that's not exciting; that's not fun, quote-unquote, but it's absolutely what customers are doing and I'm not going to sit here and tell them that they're wrong for doing it. That is the hallmark of a terrible consultant of, “I don't understand why you're doing what you're doing, so it must be foolish.” How about you stop and gain some context into why customers do the things that they do?Richard: No, I send around a goofy newsletter every week to a thousand or two people, just on things I'm learning from the field, from customers, trying to make sure we're just thinking bigger. A couple of weeks ago, I wrote an idea about modernization is awesome, and I love when people upgrade their software. By the way, most people migration is a heck of a lot easier than if I can just get this into your cloud, yeah love that; that's not the most interesting thing, to move VMs around, but most people in their budget, don't have time to rewrite every Java app to go. Everybody's not changing .NET framework to .NET core.Like, who do I think everybody is? No, I just need to try to get some incremental value first. Yes, then hopefully I'll swap out my self-managed SQL database for a Spanner or a managed service. Of course, I want all of that, but this idea that I can turn my line of business loan processing app into a thousand functions overnight is goofy. So, how are we instead thinking more pragmatically about migration, and then modernizing some of it? But even that sort of mindset, look, Google thinks about innovation modernization first. So, also just trying to help us take a step back and go, “Gosh, what is the normal path? Well, it's a lot of migration first, some modernization, and then there's some steady-state work there.”Corey: One of the things that surprised me the most about Google Cloud in the market, across the board, has been the enthusiastic uptake for enterprise workloads. And by enterprise workloads, I'm talking about things like SAP HANA is doing a whole bunch of deployments there; we're talking Big Iron-style enterprise-y things that, let's be honest, countervene most of the philosophy that Google has always held and espoused publicly, at least on conference stages, about how software should be built. And I thought that would cut against them and make it very difficult for you folks to gain headway in that market and I could not have been more wrong. I'm talking to large enterprises who are enthusiastically talking about Google Cloud. I've got a level with you, compared to a year or two ago, I don't recognize the place.Richard: Mmm. I mean, some of that, honestly, in the conversations I have, and whatever I do a handful of customer calls every week, I think folks still want something familiar, but you're looking for maybe a further step on some of it. And that means, like, yes, is everybody going to offer VMs? Yeah, of course. Is everyone going to have MySQL? Obviously.But if I'm an enterprise and I'm doing these generational bets, can I cheat a little bit, and maybe if I partner with a more of an innovation partner versus maybe just the easy next step, am I buying some more relevance for the long-term? So, am I getting into environment that has some really cool native zero-trust stuff? Am I getting into environment with global backend services and I'm not just stitching together a bunch of regional stuff? How can I cheat by using a more innovation vendor versus just lifting and shifting to what feels like hosted software in another cloud? I'm seeing more of that because these migrations are tough; nobody should be just randomly switching clouds. That's insane.So, can I make, maybe, one of these big bets with somebody who feels like they might actually even improve my business as a whole because I can work with Google Pay and improve how I do mobile payments, or I could do something here with Android? Or, heck, all my developers are using Angular and Flutter; aren't I going to get some benefit from working with Google? So, we're seeing that, kind of, add-on effect of, “Maybe this is a place not just to host my VMs, but to take a generational leap.”Corey: And I think that you're positioning yourselves in a way to do it. Again, talk about things that you wouldn't have expected to come out of Google of all places, but your console experience has been first-rate and has been for a while. The developer experience is awesome; I don't need to learn the intricacies of 12 different services for what I'm trying to do just in order to get something basic up and running. I can stop all the random little billing things in my experimental project with a single click, which that admittedly has a confirm, which you kind of want. But it lets you reason about these things.It lets you get started building something, and there's a consistency and cohesiveness to the console that, again, I am not a graphic designer, by any stretch of the imagination. My most commonly used user interface is a green-screen shell prompt, and then I'm using Vim to wind up writing something horrifying, ideally in Python, but more often in YAML. And that has been my experience, but just clicking around the console, it's clear that there was significant thought put into the design, the user experience, and the way of approaching folks who are starting to look very different, from a user persona perspective.Richard: I can—I mean, I love our user research team; they're actually fun to hang out with and watch what they do, but you have to remember, Google as a company, I don't know, cloud is the first thing we had to sell. Did have to sell Gmail. I remember 15 years ago, people were waiting for invites. And who buys Maps or who buys YouTube? For the most part, we've had to build things that were naturally interesting and easy-to-use because otherwise, you would just switch to anything else because everything was free.So, some of that does infuse Google Cloud, “Let's just make this really easy to use. And let's just make sure that, maybe, you don't hate yourself when you're done jumping into a shell from the middle of the console.” It's like, that should be really easy to do—or upgrade a database, or make changes to things. So, I think some of the things we've learned from the consumer good side, have made their way to how we think of UX and design because maybe this stuff shouldn't be terrible.Corey: There's a trope going around, where I wound up talking about the next million cloud customers. And I'm going to have to write a sequel to it because it turns out that I've made a fundamental error, in that I've accepted the narrative that all of the large cloud vendors are pushing, to the point where I heard from so many folks I just accepted it unthinkingly and uncritically, and that's not what I should be doing. And we'll get to what I was wrong about in a minute, but the thinking goes that the next big growth area is large enterprises, specifically around corporate IT. And those are folks who are used to managing things in a GUI environment—which is fine—and clicking around in web apps. Now, it's easy to sit here on our high horse and say, “Oh, you should learn to write code,” or YAML, which is basically code. Cool.As an individual, I agree, someone should because as soon as they do that, they are now able to go out and take that skill to a more lucrative role. The company then has to backfill someone into the role that they just got promoted out of, and the company still has that dependency. And you cannot succeed in that market with a philosophy of, “Oh, you built something in the console. Now, throw it away and do it right.” Because that is maddening to that user persona. Rightfully so.I'm not that user persona and I find it maddening when I have to keep tripping over that particular thing. How did that come to be, from your perspective? First, do you think that is where the next million cloud customers come from? And have I adequately captured that user persona, or am I completely often the weeds somewhere?Richard: I mean, I shared your post internally when that one came out because that resonated with me of how we were thinking about it. Again, it's easy to think about the cloud-native operators, it's Spotify doing something amazing, or this team at Twitter doing something, or whatever. And it's not even to be disparaging. Like, look, I spent five years in enterprise IT and I was surrounded by operators who had to run dozen different systems; they weren't dedicated to just this thing or that. So, what are the tools that make my life easy?A lot of software just comes with UIs for quick install and upgrades, and how does that logic translate to this cloud world? I think that stuff does matter. How are you meeting these people a little better where they are? I think the hard part that we will always have in every cloud provider is—I think you've said this in different forums, but how do I not sometimes rub the data center on my cloud or vice versa? I also don't want to change the experience so much where I degrade it over the long term, I've actually somehow done something worse.So, can I meet those people where they are? Can we pull some of those experiences in, but not accidentally do something that kind of messes up the cloud experience? I mean, that's a fine line to walk. Does that make sense to you? Do you see where there's a… I don't know, you could accidentally cater to a certain audience too much, and change the experience for the worse?Corey: Yes, and no. My philosophy on it is that you have to meet customers where they are, but only to a point. At some point, what they're asking for becomes actively harmful or disadvantageous to wind up providing for them. “I want you to run my data center for me,” is on some level what some cloud environments look like, and I'm not going to sit here and tell people they're inherently wrong for that. Their big reason for moving to the cloud was because they keep screwing up replacing failed hard drives in their data center, so we're going to put it in the cloud.Is it more expensive that way? Well, sure in terms of actual cash outlay, it almost certainly is, but they're also not going down every month when a drive fails, so once the value of that? It's a capability story. That becomes interesting to me, and I think that trying to sit here in isolation, and say that, “Oh, this application is not how we would build it at Google.” And it's, “Yeah, you're Google. They are insert an entire universe of different industries that look nothing whatsoever like Google.” The constraints are different, the resources are different, and—Richard: Sure.Corey: —their approach to problem-solving are different. When you built out Google, and even when you're building out Google Cloud, look at some of the oldest craftiest stuff you have in your entire all of Google environment, and then remember that there are companies out there that are hundreds of years old. It's a different order of magnitude as far as era, as far as understanding of what's in the environment, and that's okay. It's a very broad and very diverse world.Richard: Yeah. I mean, that's, again, why I've been thinking more about migration than even some of the modernization piece. Should you bring your network architecture from on-prem to the cloud? I mean, I think most cases, no. But I understand sometimes that edge firewall, internal trust model you had on-prem, okay, trying to replicate that.So, yeah, like you say, I want to meet people where they are. Can we at least find some strategic leverage points to upgrade aspects of things as you get to a cloud, to save you from yourself in some places because all of a sudden, you have ten regions and you only had one data center before. So, many more rooms for mistakes. Where are the right guardrails? We're probably more opinionated than others at Google Cloud.I don't really apologize for that completely, but I understand. I mean, I think we've loosened up a lot more than maybe people [laugh] would have thought a few years ago, from being hyper-opinionated on how you run software.Corey: I will actually push back a bit on the idea that you should not replicate your on-premises data center in your cloud environment. Sure, are there more optimal ways to do it that are arguably more secure? Absolutely. But a common failure mode in moving from data center to cloud is, “All right, we're going to start embracing this entirely new cloud networking paradigm.” And it is confusing, and your team that knows how the data center network works really well are suddenly in way over their heads, and they're inadvertently exposing things they don't intend to or causing issues.The hard part is always people, not technology. So, when I glance at an environment and see things like that, perfect example, are there more optimal ways to do it? Oh, from a technology perspective, absolutely. How many engineers are working on that? What's their skill set? What's their position on all this? What else are they working on? Because you're never going to find a team of folks who are world-class experts in every cloud? It doesn't work that way.Richard: No doubt. No doubt, you're right. There's areas where we have to at least have something that's going to look similar, let you replicate aspects of it. I think it's—it'll just be interesting to watch, and I have enough conversations with customers who do ask, “Hey, where are the places we should make certain changes as we evolve?” And maybe they are tactical, and they're not going to be the big strategic redesign their entire thing. But it is good to see people not just trying to shovel everything from one place to the next.Corey: This episode is sponsored in part by something new. Cloud Academy is a training platform built on two primary goals. Having the highest quality content in tech and cloud skills, and building a good community the is rich and full of IT and engineering professionals. You wouldn't think those things go together, but sometimes they do. Its both useful for individuals and large enterprises, but here's what makes it new. I don't use that term lightly. Cloud Academy invites you to showcase just how good your AWS skills are. For the next four weeks you'll have a chance to prove yourself. Compete in four unique lab challenges, where they'll be awarding more than $2000 in cash and prizes. I'm not kidding, first place is a thousand bucks. Pre-register for the first challenge now, one that I picked out myself on Amazon SNS image resizing, by visiting cloudacademy.com/corey. C-O-R-E-Y. That's cloudacademy.com/corey. We're gonna have some fun with this one!Corey: Now, to follow up on what I was saying earlier, what I think I've gotten wrong by accepting the industry talking points on is that the next million cloud customers are big enterprises moving from data centers into the cloud. There's money there, don't get me wrong, but there is a larger opportunity in empowering the creation of companies in your environment. And this is what certain large competitors of yours get very wrong, where it's we're going to launch a whole bunch of different services that you get to build yourself from popsicle sticks. Great. That is not useful.But companies that are trying to do interesting things, or people who want to found companies to do interesting things, want something that looks a lot more turnkey. If you are going to be building cloud offerings, that for example, are terrific building blocks for SaaS companies, then it behooves you to do actual investments, rather than just a generic credit offer, into spurring the creation of those types of companies. If you want to build a company that does payroll systems, in a SaaS, cloud way, “Partner with us. Do it here. We will give you a bunch of credits. We will introduce you to your first ten prospective customers.”And effectively actually invest in a company success, as opposed to pitch-deck invest, which is, “Yeah, we'll give you some discounting and some credits, and that's our quote-unquote, ‘investment.'” actually be there with them as a partner. And that's going to take years for folks to wrap their heads around, but I feel like that is the opportunity that is significantly larger, even than the embedded existing IT space because rather than fighting each other for slices of the pie, I'm much more interested in expanding that pie overall. One of my favorite questions to get asked because I think it is so profoundly missing the point is, “Do you think it's possible for Google to go from number three to number two,” or whatever the number happens to be at some point, and my honest, considered answer is, “Who gives a shit?” Because number three, or number five, or number twelve—it doesn't matter to me—is still how many hundreds of billions of dollars in the fullness of time. Let's be real for a minute here; the total addressable market is expanding faster than any cloud or clouds are going to be able to capture all of.Richard: Yeah. Hey, look, whoever who'll be more profitable solving user problems, I really don't care about the final revenue number. I can be the number one cloud tomorrow by making Google Cloud free. What's the point? That's not a sustainable business. So, if you're just going for who can deploy the most VCPUs or who can deploy the most whatever, there's ways to game that. I want to make sure we are just uniquely solving problems better than anybody else.Corey: Sorry, forgive me. I just sort of zoned out for a second there because I'm just so taken aback and shocked by the idea of someone working at a large cloud provider who expresses a philosophy that isn't lying awake at night fretting over the possibility of someone who isn't them as making money somewhere.Richard: [laugh]. I mean, your idea there, it'll be interesting to watch, kind of, the maker's approach of are you enabling that next round of startups, the next round of people who want to take—I mean, honestly, I like the things we're doing building block-wise, even with our AI: we're not just handing you a vision API, we're giving you a loan processing AI that can process certain types of docs, that more packaged version of AI. Same with healthcare, same with whatever. I can imagine certain startups or a company idea going, “Hey, maybe I could disrupt or serve a new market.”I always love what Square did. They've disrupted emerging markets, small merchants here in North America, wherever, where I didn't need a big expensive point of sale system. You just gave me the nice, right building blocks to disrupt and run my business. Maybe Google Cloud can continue to provide better building blocks, but I do like your idea of actually investment zones, getting part of this. Maybe the next million users are founders and it's not just getting into some of these companies with, frankly, 10, 20, 30,000 people in IT.I think there's still plenty of room in these big enterprises to unlock many more of those companies, much more of their business. But to your point, there's a giant market here that we're not all grabbing yet. For crying out loud, there's tons of opportunity out here. This is not zero-sum.Corey: Take it a step further beyond that, and today, if you have someone who's enterprising, early on in their career, maybe they just got out of school, maybe they have just left their job and are ready to snap, or they have some severance money that they want to throw into something. Great. What do they want to do if they have an idea for a company? Well today, that answer looks a lot like, well, time to go to a boot camp and learn to code for six months so you can build a badly done MVP well enough to get off the ground and get some outside investment, and then go from there. Well, what if we cut that part out entirely?What if there were building blocks of I don't need to know or care that there's a database behind it, or what a database looks like. Picture Visual Basic in a web browser for building apps, and just take this bit of information I give you and store it and give it back to me later. Sure, you're going to have some significant challenges in the architecture or something like that as it goes from this thing that I'm talking about as an MVP to something planet-scale—like a Spotify for example—but that's not most businesses, and that's okay. Get out of the way and let people innovate and iterate on what it is they're doing more rapidly, and make it more accessible to teach people. That becomes huge; that gets the infrastructure bits that cloud providers excel at out of the way, and all it really takes is packaging those things into a golden path of what a given company of a particular profile should be doing, if—unless they have reason to deviate from it—and instead of having this giant paradox of choice issue, it's, “Oh, okay, I'll drag-drop, build things accordingly.”And under the hood, it's doing all the configuration of services and that's great. But suddenly, you've made being a founder of a software company—fundamentally—accessible to people who are not themselves software engineers. And I know that's anathema to some people, and I don't even slightly care because I am done with gatekeeping.Richard: Yeah. No, it's exciting if that can pull off. I mean, it's not the years ago where, how much capital was required to find the rack and do all sorts of things with tech, and hire some developers. And it's an amazing time to be software creators, now. The more we can enable that—yeah, I'm along for that journey, sign me up.Corey: I'm looking forward to seeing how it winds up shaking out. So, I want to talk a little bit about the paradox of choice problem that I just mentioned. If you take a look at the various compute services that every cloud provider offers, there are an awful lot of different choices as far as what you can run. There's the VM model, there's containers—if you're in AWS, you have 17 ways to run those—and you wind up—any of the serverless function story, and other things here and there, and managed services, I mean and honestly, Google has a lot of them, nowhere near as many as you do failed messaging products, but still, an awful lot of compute options. How do customers decide?What is the decision criteria that you see? Because the worst answer you can give someone who doesn't really know what they're doing is, “It depends,” because people don't know how to make that decision. It's, “What factors should I consider then, while making that decision?” And the answer has to be something somewhat authoritative because otherwise, they're going to go on the internet and get yelled at by everyone because no one is ever going to agree on this, except that everyone else is wrong.Richard: Mm-hm. Yeah, I mean, on one hand, look, I like that we intentionally have fewer choices than others because I don't think you need 17 ways to run a container. I think that's excessive. I think more than five is probably excessive because as a customer, what is the trade-off? Now, I would argue first off, I don't care if you have a lot of options as a vendor, but boy, the backends of those better be consistent.Meaning if I have a CI/CD tool in my portfolio and it only writes to two of them, shame on me. Then I should make sure that at least CI/CD, identity management, log management, monitoring, arguably your compute runtime should be a late-binding choice. And maybe that's blasphemous because somebody says, “I want to start up front knowing it's a function,” or, “I want to start it's a VM.” How about, as a developer, I couldn't care less. How about I just build cool software and maybe even at deploy time, I say, “This better fits in running in Kubernetes.” “This is better in a virtual machine.”And my cost of changing that later is meaningless because, hey, if it is in the container, I can switch it between three or four different runtimes, the identity management the same, it logs the exact same way, I can deploy CI/CD the same way. So, first off, if those things aren't the same, then the vendor is messing up. So, the customer shouldn't have to pay the cost of that. And then there gets to be other actual criteria. Look, I think you are looking at the workload itself, the team who makes it, and the strategy to figure out the runtime.It's easy for us. Google Compute Engine for VMs, containers go in GKE, managed services that need some containers, there are some apps around them, are Cloud Functions and Cloud Run. Like, it's fairly straightforward and it's going to be an OR situation—or an AND situation not an OR, which is great. But we're at least saying the premium way to run containers in Google Cloud for systems is GKE. There you go. If you do have a bunch of managed services in your architecture and you're stitching them together, then you want more serverless things like Cloud Run and Cloud Functions. And if you want to just really move some existing workload, GCE is your best choice. I like that that's fairly straightforward. There's still going to be some it depends, but it feels better than nine ways to run Kubernetes engines.Corey: I'm sure we'll see them in the fullness of time.Richard: [laugh].Corey: So, talk about Anthos a bit. That was a thing that was announced a while back and it was extraordinarily unclear what it was. And then I looked at the pricing and it was $10,000 a month with a one-year minimum commitment, and is like, “Oh, it's not for me. That's why I don't get it.” And I haven't really looked back at it since. But it is something else now. It almost feels like a wrapper brand, in some respects. How's it going? [unintelligible 00:29:26]?Richard: Yeah. Consumption, we'll talk more upcoming months on some of the adoption, but we're finally getting the hockey stick, which always comes delayed with platforms because nobody adopts platforms quickly. They buy the platform and a year later they start to actually build new development, migrate the things they have. So, we're starting to see the sort of growth. But back to your first point. And I even think I poorly tried to explain it a year ago with you. Basically, look, Anthos is the ability to manage fleets of GKE clusters, wherever they are. I don't care if they're on-prem, I don't care if they're in Google Cloud, I don't care if they're Amazon. We have one customer who only uses Anthos on AWS. Awesome, rock on.So, how do I put GKE clusters everywhere, but then do fleet management because look, some people are doing an app per cluster. They don't want to jam 50 apps in the cluster from different teams because they don't like the idea that this app requires root access; now you can screw around with mine. Or, you didn't update; that broke the cluster. I don't want any of that. So, you're going to see companies more, doing even app per cluster, app per developer per cluster.So, now I have a fleet problem. How do I keep it in sync? How do I make sure policy is consistent? Those sorts of things. So, Anthos is kind of solving the fleet management challenge and replacing people's first-gen app platform.Seeing a lot of those use cases, “Hey, we're retiring our first version of Docker Enterprise, Mesos, Cloud Foundry, even OpenShift,” saying, “All right, now's the time for our next version of our app platform. How about GKE, plus Cloud Run on top of it, plus other stuff?” Sounds good. So, going well is a, sort of—as you mentioned, there's a brand story here, mainly because we've also done two things that probably matter to you. A, we changed the price a lot.No minimum commit, remarkably at 20% of the cost it was when we launched, on purpose because we've gotten better at this. So, much cheaper, no minimum commit, pay as you go. Be on-premises, on bare metal with GKE. Pay by the hour, I don't care; sounds great. So, you can do that sort of stuff.But then more importantly, if you're a GKE customer and you just want config management, service mesh, things like that, now you can buy all of those independently as well. And Anthos is really the brand for fleet management of GKE. And if you're on Google Cloud only, it adds value. If you're off Google Cloud, if you're multi-cloud, I don't care. But I want to manage fleets of compute clusters and create them. We're going to keep doubling down on that.Corey: The big problem historically for understanding a lot of the adoption paradigm of Kubernetes has been that it was, to some extent, a reimagining of how Google ran and built software internally. And I thought at the time, the idea was—from a cynical perspective—that, “All right, well, your crappy apps don't run well on Google-style infrastructure so we're going to teach the entire world how to write software the way that we do.” And then you end up with people running their blog on top of Kubernetes, where it's one of those, like, the first blog post is, like, “How I spent the last 18 months building Kubernetes.” And, okay, that is certainly a philosophy and an approach, but it's almost approaching Windows 95 launch level of hype, where people who didn't own computers were buying copies of it, on some level. And I see the term come up in conversations in places where it absolutely has no place being brought up. “How do I run a Kubernetes cluster inside of my laptop?” And, “It's what you got going on in there, buddy?”Richard: [laugh].Corey: “What do you think you're trying to do here because you just said something that means something that I think is radically different to me than it is to you.” And again, I'm not here to judge other people's workflows; they're all terrible, except for mine, which is an opinion held by everyone about their own workflow. But understanding where people are, figuring out how to get there, how to meet customers where they are and empower them. And despite how heavily Google has been into the Kubernetes universe since its inception, you're very welcoming to companies—and loud-mouth individuals on Twitter—who have no use for Kubernetes. And working through various products you offer, I don't ever feel like a second-class citizen. There's really something impressive about that, of not letting the hype dictate the product and marketing decisions of it.Richard: Yeah, look, I think I tweeted it recently, I think the future of software is managed services with containers in the gap, for the most part. Whereas—if you can use managed services, please do. Use them wherever you can. And if you have to sling some code, maybe put it in a really portable thing that's really easy to run in lots of places. So, I think that's smart.But for us, look, I think we have the best container workflow from dev tools, and build tools, and artifact registries, and runtimes, but plenty of people are running containers, and you shouldn't be running Kubernetes all over the place. That makes sense for the workload, I think it's better than a VM at the retail edge. Can I run a small cluster, instead of a weird point-of-sale Windows app? Maybe. Maybe it makes sense to have a lightweight Kubernetes cluster there for consistency purposes.So, for me, I think it's a great medium for a subset of software. Google Cloud is going to take whatever you got, which is great. I think containers are great, but at the same time, I'm happily going to let you deploy a function that responds to you adding a storage item to a bucket, where at the same time give you a SaaS service that replaces the need for any code. All of those are terrific. So yeah, we love Kubernetes. We think it's great. We're going to be the best version to run it. But that's not going to be your whole universe.Corey: No, and I would argue it absolutely shouldn't be.Richard: [laugh]. Right. Agreed. Now again, for some companies, it's a great replacement for this giant fleet of VMs that all runs at eight percent utilization. Can I stick this into a bunch of high-density clusters? Absolutely you should. You're going to save an absolute fortune doing that and probably pick up some resilience and functionality benefits.But to your point, “Do I want to run a WordPress site in there?” I don't know, probably not. “Do I need to run my own MySQL?” I'd prefer you not do that. So, in a lot of cases, don't use it unless you have to. That should go for all compute nowadays. Use managed services.Corey: I'm a big believer in going down that approach just because it is so much easier than trying to build it yourself from popsicle sticks because you theoretically might have to move it someday in the future, even though you're not.Richard: [laugh]. Right.Corey: And it lets me feel better about a thing that isn't going to be used by anything that I'm doing in the near future. I just don't pretend to get it.Richard: No, I don't install a general purpose electric charger in my garage for any electric car I may get in the future; I charge for the one I have now. I just want it to work for my car; I don't want to plan for some mythical future. So yeah, premature optimization over architecture, or death in IT, especially nowadays where speed matters, don't waste your time building something that can run in nine clouds.Corey: Richard, I want to thank you for coming on again a year later to suffer my slings, arrows, and other various implements of misfortune. If people want to learn more about what you're doing, how you're doing it, possibly to pull a Forrest Brazeal and go work with you, where can they find you?Richard: Yeah, we're a fun place to work. So, you can find me on Twitter at @rseroter—R-S-E-R-O-T-E-R—hang out on LinkedIn, annoy me on my blog seroter.com as I try to at least explore our tech from time to time and mess around with it. But this is a fun place to work. There's a lot of good stuff going on here, and if you work somewhere else, too, we can still be friends.Corey: Thank you so much for your time today. Richard Seroter, director of outbound product management at Google. I'm Cloud Economist Corey Quinn and this is Screaming in the Cloud. If you've enjoyed this podcast, please leave a five-star review on your podcast platform of choice, whereas if you've hated this podcast, please leave a five-star review on your podcast platform of choice along with an angry comment into which you have somehow managed to shove a running container.Corey: If your AWS bill keeps rising and your blood pressure is doing the same, then you need The Duckbill Group. We help companies fix their AWS bill by making it smaller and less horrifying. The Duckbill Group works for you, not AWS. We tailor recommendations to your business and we get to the point. Visit duckbillgroup.com to get started.Announcer: This has been a HumblePod production. Stay humble.

The Global Politico
136 countries agreed to a global minimum corporate tax rate. What now?

The Global Politico

Play Episode Listen Later Nov 10, 2021 18:52


Last month, 136 countries agreed to a global treaty that would tax large companies at a rate of at least 15 percent. POLITICO's Ryan Heath talks with the OECD's Pascal Saint-Amans, who led negotiations on the historic deal, on stage at the annual Web Summit in Lisbon, Portugal, about when the tax kicks in and what loopholes he's on high alert for. Plus: Saint-Amans dishes on a Biden Cabinet member who supports a global carbon price system.  Pascal Saint-Amans directs the OECD's Center for Tax Policy and Administration.  Ryan Heath is the host of the "Global Insider" podcast and authors the newsletter.  Olivia Reingold produces “Global Insider.”  Irene Noguchi  edits “Global Insider” and is the executive producer of POLITICO Audio.

Licensed to Lead
030 - Monetization of the Physician Imagination

Licensed to Lead

Play Episode Listen Later Nov 9, 2021 38:05


This episode is a continuation of my animated conversation with Professor J.-C. Spender, a nuclear engineer-turned-business school professor, author, expert on the history of business education, and former executive and business school dean.At the onset of episode #30 I asked Dr. Spender if getting an MBA degree would provide what's needed if someone wanted to efficiently manage a healthcare organization.His response was YES. But he added “that's a kind of modified and slightly tangled yes.” What I heard was “No.” Take a listen and see what you think. Professor Spender's contrarian penchant is delightful and provocative. He offers no instant gratification: no conversational closure rewarding me with a satisfying hit of dopamine. No schmoozy cooperation providing a squirt of oxytocin. The effect of this professor's conversational style is attention—what IS he saying? How does this comment jive with that last one? Where are we headed?! He paints a bleak picture when it comes to the management training or even the management potential of someone who has been awarded an MBA degree. Non-partisan in his criticism, he also deemed my assertion that physicians must lead healthcare as “a misdiagnosis.” And what did I hear with that? I heard that Dr. Spender's primary interest is spotlighting the “multiplicity, the plurality of conversations, that is the fundamental challenge for leadership.” Agreed. When it comes to leadership and management he would have us attend to:•The history of business education--from whence the “bullshit” came•Practice (experience) vs. principles (rules)—and the true crucible of leadership when principles don't serve us•Uncertainty as the state which drives the engine of business•The fundamental ethical problem of business: monetizing someone else's imagination to serve oneself•The lack of conversation in business school about human beings' capacity for imagination—yet it is imagination which produces an organization's valueIn this episode:•The balanced scorecard—developed as a remedy to the dominance of finance during board-level strategic conversations•Business geniuses are those who flourish in business as an “artistic medium”•The demise in popularity of managerial accounting and the ascendancy of financial accounting•Clouding true intentions by invoking “trust” when monetization to satisfy shareholder demands is the business objective •Economic discourse as an arena that is incapable of creating new economic value •Tacit knowledge is knowledge derived more from practice than from principle•Racism and oppression as actions to silence the language of entire communitiesFor more information including “A Glossary of Sorts” (aka Spenderisms) see the 11/9/21 newsletter associated with LTL episode #30

The World View with Adam Gilchrist
The World View - The coal deal more countries have agreed to a fossil-fuel-free future

The World View with Adam Gilchrist

Play Episode Listen Later Nov 5, 2021 4:46


Cricket racism the finger is pointing- justly or otherwise - at Yorkshire.   Space with a splash thanks to a broken toilet on the Space X capsule.   See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Inside Sales Coach ®
How can I retain my best salespeople?

Inside Sales Coach ®

Play Episode Listen Later Nov 4, 2021 21:14


I had a conversation with Paul and Aisling, 2 SDR Managers recently   As we approach Q4, they expressed concern that some of their top performers are thinking of brushing off their CVs and crossing street to competition.   Sales people come and go but there are few challenges which cost you more than losing people you:   Don't want to lose Can't afford to lose Struggle to replace   And your top producers are hard to find and harder to replace than anyone else. Agreed?   In today's episode:   Who is thinking of leaving your team? Why might they leave? What are you going to do about it?

The Smart 7
Ep 508. COP 26 kicks off with Boris and the Queen calling for climate action as forest deal agreed, no resolution for French fishing row and Spurs eye up Antonio Conte as their new manager...

The Smart 7

Play Episode Listen Later Nov 2, 2021 7:26


The Smart 7 is a daily podcast that gives you everything you need to know in 7 minutes, at 7 am, 7 days a week... With over 8 million downloads and consistently charting, including as No. 1 News Podcast on Spotify, we're a trusted source for people every day. If you're enjoying it, please follow, share, or even post a review, it all helps... Today's episode includes the following:https://twitter.com/Channel4News/status/1455166807854260227?s=20https://twitter.com/SkyNews/status/1455223338914172931?s=20https://twitter.com/therecount/status/1455264229079011330?s=20https://twitter.com/BBCNews/status/1455166133640826881?s=20 https://twitter.com/SkyNews/status/1455167179456974854?s=20https://twitter.com/KayBurley/status/1455088550643384320?s=20 https://news.sky.com/story/use-111-online-service-before-going-to-ae-for-non-life-threatening-care-nhs-boss-says-12456796?dcmp=snt-sf-twitterhttps://twitter.com/itvlondon/status/1455277684301438983?s=20https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rOJ1cw6mohw In Ireland? Why not try our Ireland Edition? Contact us over at Twitter or visit www.thesmart7.com Presented by Jamie East, written by Liam Thompson, researched by Olivia Davies and produced by Daft Doris. See acast.com/privacy for privacy and opt-out information.

I Survived Theatre School
Chisa Hutchinson

I Survived Theatre School

Play Episode Listen Later Nov 2, 2021 93:21


Intro: Boz is in the clear!Let Me Run This By You: secrets, scorched earthInterview: We talk to Chisa Hutchinson about her new film The Subject, Vassar, being a high school English teacher, NYU Tisch,  The Lark Play Development Center, New Dramatists, having a sleepover with Tina Howe, She Like Girls, Amerikin at the Alley Theatre, NYT reviews, 101 Reasons Not to Breed, Bad Art Friend, Haagen-Dazs, The Evansville Regional Airport, Three Women on Showtime, Lisa Taddeo, Playwrights as Screenwriters, Marsha Norman, Lynn Nottage, Tony Gerber, Richard Wesley, Stephanie Allain, Di Glazer, having an intentional career.COMPLETE TRANSCRIPT:Jen Bosworth-Ramirez (8s):And Jen BosworthGina Pulice (10s):and I'm Gina .Jen Bosworth-Ramirez (11s):We went to theater school together. We survived it, but we didn't quite understand it.Gina Pulice (15s):20 years later, we're digging deep talking to our guests about their experiences and trying to make sense of it all.Jen Bosworth-Ramirez (21s):We survived theater school and you will too. Are we famous yet?Gina Pulice (33s):You don't have cancer.Jen Bosworth-Ramirez (35s):No, I do not have cancer right now. Do not have cancer at this moment. Who knows the next week. Yeah, no, it was, it's been quite a thing. Like I, I, you know, right. My cousin Dalia, who is what become one of my best friends in our adult lives, which is amazing. I never had any family that like, I truly liked as people know, that sounds so terrible, but I know exactly like good friends. And she says, you know, the brain is a problem making machine and it is that's, you know, it's also solves them, but it also creates them.Jen Bosworth-Ramirez (1m 17s):And look, I'm not saying that that the ch that it wasn't possible that I had cancer, but like all the evidence pointed oh, right. The emotional evidence pointed to I had cancer. Like I made an emotional face based on my past and my parent, my mom's past and my dad's path. And I made a really strong case that I had cancer in my head and look, it's possible. So that's the other thing that is so, so compelling about the human condition. Is that like, and what Dr. Oltman used to say to me, it was like, look, you're not, you're not delusional. You're not psychotic. You're not, so you're not making up things that are like, aliens are going to come down and take you, your fears are based in, in things that have happened to you and other people and people you love.Jen Bosworth-Ramirez (2m 6s):So it's not as though this idea, this idea of like, you know, right. It can't happen. You know, like it, I know in my body of, you know, my body of work that I've done in my life, that people die all the time of cancer and get cancer all the time, as we all do, I have a more intimate knowledge is because I lost my mom from it and saw the actual process. But I'm here to say, like, if you're freaking out about things, most of the time they're things that have happened to you or other people. So they're valid freak freakouts. It's just that they don't actually happen to be true all the time.Jen Bosworth-Ramirez (2m 47s):So like weird.Gina Pulice (2m 49s):It's almost like you want to say, Thank you brain for protecting me because you know, you you've correctly picked up on the fact that when things are Sort of looking like this, it's, it means something bad, but you can relax now. Right. Because it's not that right.Jen Bosworth-Ramirez (3m 7s):And it's actually not while I appreciate you brain, you're not always dealing with, with, with what's the reality, the truth. You don't, you don't. Yeah. You don't get an unfortunately brain. You don't get to, you're not a psychic, like you're just not, you have evidence. And then, so, so I had, you know, for, for our listeners, you know, like I had, I've had pain and history of weirdness on my left ovary. And it's really interesting. The cyst that is most, this is so crazy. This is how, this is what the brain does. So I'm like, okay, left side. I'm sure I have cancer on my leftover.Jen Bosworth-Ramirez (3m 48s):Like, that's, what's going on. It turns out the right one, the cyst is bigger. I have one on my right. They didn't see me yesterday or two days. And the, and the, the right one is bigger and actually contains more blood and fluid. I feel nothing on my right side. So that is also to goes to show that even if you do have cancer, it could be in a place that I don't. But like, you don't know where it's coming from. So like, even your feelings are wrong, your pain body is wrong. So like, you really don't know. So it was so funny. She was like, yeah, your left side, even though it's more active, there are a lot of simple cysts. So, you know, for this is like a women's health thing. Like people don't do any Reese. I shouldn't say that there's not a ton of research done because it's a woman's issue.Jen Bosworth-Ramirez (4m 32s):So it's not like, unless it's breast cancer, like nobody gives a shit about like women's cancers usually. So, cause that that's what, you know, got all the funding. So, so, so cysts grow all the time, all the time and women, they come and they go, those are simple cysts. If you have endometrial cysts or complexes, that is not, they don't come and go. They just stay. So I have several on my left side that come and go one that stays. And one that stays on the right. They don't know what's actually causing the amount of pain, but they think it's probably the left one leaking. The other thing is like, I would have sworn I had a cyst, the size of a grapefruit. If you would've asked me, I would say, it's probably grapefruit size.Jen Bosworth-Ramirez (5m 15s):It's that? It's an inch on one of them. That's nothing. Well, I mean, it's not nothing cause the ovaries two inches, but like w it, you just can't always trust what your, what your feelings are. Like, it's valid, you're in pain. But like, you don't know what it looks like until, you know what it looks like. And I think that that's the whole thing I'm coming around to, which is just go to the freaking doctor, please, if you have the resource, even if you don't like find them create, I don't know, like ask somebody, but like, you know, and I've gone to plenty of free clinics and they're not glamorous and they're not exciting, but they, they, they still have an ultrasound machine, you know?Jen Bosworth-Ramirez (5m 56s):So like, get, get it, get shit checked out. If you can easier said than done. But if it's an emotional fear based response, that's stopping you and not a resource-based response, you got to work through it and go, even if it is resource-based, there are, you know, there are ways around that. But like, especially if it's, you have all the resources, but there is something internally in you that is going, I don't want to know, believe me, I get it. But you want to know, you really want to know it's the only way through anything is getting the data. It's so annoying, but it's true.Gina Pulice (6m 35s):I agree. 100% with what you're saying, and this is why people love to join cults because the fantasy, the thing that's being promised in a cult is there is a finite number of answers. I, the cult leader have, there is a clear path to the number of steps that you have to take to get, you know, it's, it's everything we wish life would be predictable or seemingly predictable controlled, highly structured, you know, without a concern like to be in a cult is to not be in a process of discovering what happens next.Jen Bosworth-Ramirez (7m 24s):Exactly, Exactly. And it's so compelling. It is so comforting to think, oh my gosh, this person and this entity knows everything. I never have to worry again. That's really what we're saying is I never have to worry about anything. Again, the problem is it's just make believe. And you actually do have to worry because the person is usually a sociopath or psychopath and it doesn't actually do the trick. They think, you think it's going to do the trick. And it usually does the trick for a while for people like our guests, Noel was talking about like, it serves a purpose until you start questioning and then you're in real trouble because then it's like, how the fuck do I get out?Gina Pulice (8m 10s):Yeah, exactly. Well, I am very happy that you, I mean, I'm sorry that you're been in pain, but I'm happy. It's not for some worse reasons.Jen Bosworth-Ramirez (8m 19s):The other thing I have to say that is so interesting that I just wanted to, to, to me anyway, that I wanted to bring up was like, okay, I may not have in the Hollywood right now in the Hollywood industry, a team of people that are like on my side, but I'm S I swear to God, my medical team has, is filling that hole. So I just got an email from my cardiologists. Who said, your, your gynecologist thought you were amazing, loves you. How did it go? Like, that's the kind of messages I get from my, of medical experts. And so I read and I like started crying and I realized like, oh, I'm not getting it from my career team.Jen Bosworth-Ramirez (9m 3s):Like, I've talked about getting nasty emails from potential managers and stuff like that, but I am getting it from the medical team. They're like, amazing. They're like, you are the best. We love you. And I like,Gina Pulice (9m 17s):What if they gave awards for being a great patient?Jen Bosworth-Ramirez (9m 19s):I would Get something for Shot.Gina Pulice (9m 21s):You would get like a gynie award. I'mJen Bosworth-Ramirez (9m 23s):Like the best guy, knee, patient,Gina Pulice (9m 26s):And the, and the, and the statue is just like, you know, the uterus.Jen Bosworth-Ramirez (9m 31s):Yeah. I mean, anyway, so that was really interesting to me. Cause I was really touched this morning when she wrote me. I'm like, who, what doctor, what? It's, she's a, she thought you were amazing. I was like, Hey, that's cool. Well, at least somewhat, you know what I mean? Like, I'll take this. It's so funny.Gina Pulice (9m 46s):Well, the truth is you are amazing. And the difference is with between people who know you and people who don't know you, I mean, that's just what it is. Like when people get to know you, not 10 out of 10 people who know Foz agree. She's amazing. It's just, you know, you have to convince people to get in the door. That'sJen Bosworth-Ramirez (10m 6s):It?Gina Pulice (10m 7s):Yeah. All right.Jen Bosworth-Ramirez (10m 9s):I'm with you, my friend. How do you feel about all the post?Gina Pulice (10m 14s):It's just, it goes on. It's done. It's just a saga. Yes, we should.Jen Bosworth-Ramirez (10m 22s):We don't have to be explicit, but like you, you,Gina Pulice (10m 24s):I can be explicit because fuck those people,Jen Bosworth-Ramirez (10m 27s):Will you left an organizationGina Pulice (10m 28s):It's called Theatre Artists workshop. And I left them because aside from a handful of members and everybody that was on the board, it was one of the more toxic environments I've ever been a part of. And I quit. And I'm the only one who quit effective immediately. Everybody else is staying. Two people are staying on and then everybody else is staying through through 2021. But when I tell you the way that people are responding, we couldn't have crafted it better ourselves. If we said, let's, let's create, like, if we were making this movie and this whole conflict happened, we'd say now what's a way that people could respond.Gina Pulice (11m 17s):That would exactly prove the point of what they were saying toxic in the first place. And two, that the fact that most people are doing that and have zero awareness. So essentially what's happening is that people are reacting to our letter. That goes step-by-step and explains the ways in which we've been abused, right? People are responding to this with a combination of don't take things. So personallyJen Bosworth-Ramirez (11m 46s):Sure. Of course, that's the number one abuser thing to do,Gina Pulice (11m 49s):And just completely invalidating ignoring what we've said about the abuse. They, everybody finds something that's in the letter to take issue with and makes their whole thing about that or, and says nothing of, and by the way, I'm sorry, you were abused. Or, and by the way, you know, and people are saying, thanks, but I'm into this thing recently. I hollow gratitude. Miss me with your hollow gratitude. I don't care. I do not care. I could wallpaper my bathroom with your thank you is right. It's not what I need. I need you to change your behavior.Jen Bosworth-Ramirez (12m 28s):Absolutely.Gina Pulice (12m 29s):Forgive me if I said this to you already, but I'm likening it to, you know, when COVID happened and everybody puts a sign in their front yard saying, thank you, frontline workers. Yeah. And they're banging pots and pans at 5:00 PM in New York city. Like, and the frontline workers are going, I don't think I don't need your sign, like get vaccinated and wear your mask. Right. And everybody's like, I know, I know the,Jen Bosworth-Ramirez (12m 54s):Without a mask on and like at their concert. Right.Gina Pulice (12m 58s):That's exactly it. That's exactly right. And, and, and I shouldn't be surprised. We all myself included are kind of in a way, programmed to not see our own bad behavior and to not want to take responsibility, but it just goes on anyway. So, but it goes on in a way that I can choose how much I want to engage with.Jen Bosworth-Ramirez (13m 18s):And also it's like it to me from the outside. It's so clear that you made the right choice. If this is the response, like they just proved, like you said, they proved the exact point there that's insane. And, and too, and you made the right choice. Like why would you stick around and be beaten down after you've made a stand? And then they continue to try to beat down that doesn't, that's insane if you stayed like that's insane.Gina Pulice (13m 44s):Yeah. Yeah. To give one just chef's kiss example. In our letter, we, we, one of the things that we said was when we tried to introduce our DEI policy, the very first thing we decided to introduce was content warnings. And we did it in the most careful way, like to, to hear about a content warning about something you're going to see presented at the workshop. You have to click down the email. Like you can choose not to see the content warning, right. Because everybody was complaining, it's art and we need to slap people in the face with it, whatever you can choose, whether or not.Gina Pulice (14m 25s):So it's literally like if I, if I'm allergic to peanuts, I'm going to read every nutrition label. Cause I want you to make sure that if I'm not allergic to peanuts, which I'm not, then I don't really need that information. It's no different than that. Right. That alone caused our first member to quit saying if he couldn't use, if he could, he could, if he could. I mean, it wasn't even related really to the content or if he couldn't use the N word, he couldn't theater and in that same evening.Jen Bosworth-Ramirez (14m 57s):Bye, bye. See you later. You're not going to make theater. We're all not here. You're not gonna do it here. Thank you.Gina Pulice (15m 4s):Oh yeah. Two of our members who are from marginalized, societal groups got stood up or, you know, spoke that night and said the ways in which they've been marginalized at TAW. And that, I mean, it was crickets, not one single person gave any support. And we had listed that in our, in our letter. So this email we received from one of our members last night opened with I'm a board member of a condo complex. And we recently oversaw a renovation that made our building double in value.Gina Pulice (15m 44s):We, as a board, had to sit and listen to a tenant or what resident, whatever. Talk about the color of the paint in the laundry room for 30 minutes. And he bolds and underlines 30 all caps, 30 minutes. Okay. It goes, it goes along with being on the board and I thought, okay, so you're comparing you pace. Exactly. You're comparing.Jen Bosworth-Ramirez (16m 15s):Bye bye, byeGina Pulice (16m 34s):Name and saying it all is because the thing I wanted to run by you this week is about secrets. I am. I'm all the way done with secrets. I'm sorry. I mean, I'm not saying like, if you tell me something in confidence, I'm not saying I'm not going to keep that a secret seat. That's not the kind of secret I'm talking about. I'm talking about the kind of secrets where, you know, you know, so I, I have written personal essays that reference my family as personal essays do. And you know, and I'm sure a lot of it has rubbed people the wrong way. I in particular wrote an essay in which I compared somebody in my family to Scott Peterson and, and that person let me know in the creepiest possible way, which is to say this person that, yes, we just happened.Gina Pulice (17m 32s):We are not friends on Facebook. He's not even to my knowledge, this guy has zero social media presence. I receive, I open my phone. There's a notification. So-and-so liked your post. My heart skipped a beat. I mean, it was like my blood turned cold. I went, you had to scroll pretty far down on my timeline to find that post. And it's the only one he liked. Are you kidding me? Your face is exactly your face of surprise. That exactly. Thank you.Gina Pulice (18m 13s):Oh, I really appreciate you validating that. Okay.Jen Bosworth-Ramirez (18m 15s):That's so it's because two things you're super intelligent and also we like crime weirdness, but also it's fucking creepy.Gina Pulice (18m 26s):It's fucking creepy. That's weird by the way, about any post, if anybody who I'm not friends with on Facebook likes a post that's way down the feed.Jen Bosworth-Ramirez (18m 38s):Well, if that's something you're not friends with on,Gina Pulice (18m 42s):Yeah. The whole thing is creepy. The whole thing is 1000% creepy. So part of the thing that I struggle with in writing personal things is airing the dirty laundry, you know, telling the secrets. And I really do try to tell only the secrets that are mine. I really try not to tell anybody else's secrets, but in general, it's so exhausting to be in this perpetual state of protecting a bunch of people who would never protect.Jen Bosworth-Ramirez (19m 16s):There's the key. I mean, like, I think that's the kicker, right? It's like, and I think it speaks to a bigger issue. Like we're all protecting this in these institutional institutions and, and companies and things that are destroying us and we've been projecting them for years. And I think it speaks to why we started the podcast unknowingly is that to protect, we wanted to stop in our way and stop protecting institutions that harmed us whether some are assholes right out some aren't some are, but like institutions harm people. Like I just think that that's the way, right? That's just how it is. It's capitalism, it's democracy, whatever it is, they harm people.Jen Bosworth-Ramirez (19m 58s):So I think we're trying to shed some light on that and say, no, we're going to heal from that. And I don't think you can heal from it unless you really process it. And some of that is bringing the secrets into the light and no, and people don't like that.Gina Pulice (20m 12s):People don't like it. And you and I have had many conversations following interviews where we said, do we bleep this person's name? Do we cut this thing out? And with the exception of one person who we interviewed, who then said that they didn't want us to air the interview. Nobody has said, I regret saying that. Can you, and, and when they're here talking, I mean, we've encountered people feel such a freedom and a relief and they have no problem naming names. Right. And so it's been our thing of like, do we protect this person's identity? But the other thing is, here's the, here's the part in the whole dynamic that I'm trying to own for what I do in this, in this situation about the secrets and everything.Gina Pulice (21m 1s):I wrote something personal, I published it on our website. I promoted it on social media. Theoretically. I want everybody in the world to read it, except this one guy. Right? Like that's, that's my logic. There is, it's really flawed, right? Like if you're going to be brave, then you have to be brave. Right. You can't be brave only when it's convenient.Jen Bosworth-Ramirez (21m 31s):Right. I totally agree. I mean, I think that, and I think it's really great to have the conversations about like, okay, like who are we bleeping and why? And someone on, you know, on this podcast who we, I don't think we've bleeped, but she gets a lot of bad press as Susan Leigh.Gina Pulice (21m 50s):She really does get a lot of bad press.Jen Bosworth-Ramirez (21m 52s):I mean, and, and, and, you know, I'm like, man, should we have been bleeping or out, but,Gina Pulice (21m 59s):But she did it. I mean, it's her, she is the person who should be carrying around the shame for her behavior. Not the people who she harmed the, you know, it's not there. And that's the other thing that we have usually all the way backwards is that we make the people who experienced the pain, shut up about it. Yeah. It to, to protect us. And who did the pain. Yeah. Right.Jen Bosworth-Ramirez (22m 25s):Yeah. Just, yeah, it's, it's all backwards. And again, it's like, you know, she works for, she worked for an institution and they, they, you know, they should, she grew upGina Pulice (22m 34s):And a time and she's, and she's probably the victim of a lot of sexism. Like it's only, it's all of a piece, but the fact remains that at, at that time, maybe she's a completely different person now, but the fact remains that at that time, she did and said a lot of really racist thingsJen Bosworth-Ramirez (22m 51s):And hurtful and other ways, like, just, I mean, I think racism is hurtful, but like other types of hurtful besides racism, just like weird shit, you know, that hurt people. And I, I mean, it's just their truth. And I think it's actually up to, yeah. I mean, yeah, it's a co it's a, it's kind of a complicated issue and yet it's not complicated. It's like, you're right. We're just protecting the people that hurt us all the time. That's like when I got, when I got that very nasty email from, from that manager, my first response was in, this is interesting. My first response was to drag him through Twitter.Jen Bosworth-Ramirez (23m 31s):Like I was going to put his name and say, I got this. It was so hurtful. And I feel like as a woman, as a Latina, that to get this email about fucking formatting, when I'm trying to break into the business is the condescending. I wanted to drag him. And then I thought, okay, there's a difference between speaking your truth and dragging someone. I don't know the difference exactly. Like, I don't know where the nuances lie that make them different, but dragging someone in Twitter versus, and I don't blame people for dragging people on Twitter, either like that. I'm not saying like dragging people is wrong.Jen Bosworth-Ramirez (24m 12s):I think some people need to be dragged. I mean, we've talked about Louis C K's of the world and the Weinsteins do, who deserves to be dragged, who does it. And that's really what I wrote my pilot about, but like, I just didn't feel, I think every person has to decide if they're going to keep secrets, why, or if they're going to drag someone why, or like put it in on social media, straight up, this person did this. You have to be, I have to be prepared to deal with the full consequences if I do that. And I'm just not willing to deal with the full consequences of dragging this guy on Twitter. I'm just not, I'm just not, I don't feel certain.Jen Bosworth-Ramirez (24m 51s):Now there are people where if something happened, I would work it out and I might feel certain to drag their ass. But it was interesting. I think everyone has to decide for themselves where the line is of when I'm going to expose someone to the fullest, et cetera, or an institution to the fullest extent and leave the individual out of it. I don't know.Gina Pulice (25m 12s):Right. Well, and you, and you don't want to do anything. That's gonna harm you. I mean, if you, if you were in a certain place in your life and you did like people dragging that guy would never have hurt you, then you could've, you could've made that decision. Yeah. And I'll also just say for anybody listening, who knows me in real life and, and who've, I've hurt and misbehaved, I invite you not to keep that secret. You know, I, I invite you to drag me if it's something that, I mean, for the thing, for my, for the sins of my past, if anybody is, you know, holding on to that and never has told me, or whatever, like I'd rather hear about it, I'd rather know, and try to make amends and to party so that I I'll feel that I have the right to participate in this, keeping those secrets, telling the truth culture that I really try to, you know, I really try to stay within.Jen Bosworth-Ramirez (26m 16s):Right, right. So, wow. I forgot. I was going to say something else about That's a lot like that. I just feel like, yeah, this whole, this whole notion of keeping, keeping it, you know, and they say in program, like you're only as sick as your secrets. And I think it's really true. And I think there's a way of, of working through the secret that won't bring further harm to yourself versus versus versus doing something that exposes you further. You know what I mean? And brings, and bring, could bring more abuse or you have to look at, I mean, you know, like it's like, except when to do so would injure yourself for others.Jen Bosworth-Ramirez (27m 3s):But, but, but, but, but dragging is about sort of injuring others in a way. I don't know. It's like really interesting. I don't know,Gina Pulice (27m 11s):You know, that saying, or I think, I don't know if you call it, call it a saying, is it kind, is it truthful? Is it necessary? Well, I know you're supposed to aim for all three. Yeah. To my way of thinking, you really just need two out of a three. It can be truthful and necessary, like talking about Harvey Weinstein. It's not kind, but that's okay. It didn't need to be constant. So yeah. So that's, that's, that's that tends to be my barometer is if it can't be kind, at least it has to be truthful in this. Yes.Jen Bosworth-Ramirez (27m 43s):Agreed. Agreed. And I think that's, I think for me the necessary part, it's like, okay, well, can I, can I proceed to function as a, you know, trying healthy human being without doing this? Or do I need to do something about this to proceed and live my life and feel like I'm living in integrity and that I'm, I'm doing the right thing by, by me. And sometimes you just, and, and also also, right. Sometimes people, people get, they get hurt. Yeah. But they also didn't think about that when they were abusing others. SoGina Pulice (28m 21s):Yes. Oh yeah. That's the other thing that came out with this board thing, you know, when we were writing the letter, somebody said, okay, so this is, we acknowledge, this is scorched earth. You know, this is a scorched earth thing, which I'm very, that is how I think about things a lot. I, I tend to think about scorched earth, but I, it occurred to me when she said this, how come nobody's ever worried about skirts, scorching the earth with me, right? How come no one's ever worried about burning a bridge with me? You know, like, yeah. Maybe it is scorched earth. But if you, if your takeaway from what I've said to you is that I'm the asshole.Gina Pulice (29m 4s):That's fine. I don't care. That's completely fine. Go. I wish you well on your journey, right? It wasn't for you. I guess for this letter, it was for me to say to you, I mean, if you didn't want to receive it, that's your business. Right?Jen Bosworth-Ramirez (29m 22s):Well, Today on the podcast we're talking with CISA Hutchinson. She says a graduate from Vassar and NYU, and she's a teacher, she's a playwright. She writes for television and we found our conversation with her extremely focusing and motivating. So please enjoy our conversation with CISA Hutchinson. Hi, good morning. Good. Where are you? Which coast are you on? Are you on the east coast?Jen Bosworth-Ramirez (30m 2s):Okay.Gina Pulice (30m 3s):I guess what, I just had to pause, watching to come talk to you, your movie, your amazing movie. Yes. Oh my God. I'm in the scene with the mother right now and it's so good. It's so good.Chisa Hutchinson (30m 23s):Yeah. That's that? Yeah. You know, it's so funny because when I wrote, I wrote it as a play initially, and I was, when I was writing that part, I was like, this is why people don't like theater, just two people talking like whatever, we're going to be full board. But like, I don't know. Everybody seems to like really be engaged by that part. So,Gina Pulice (30m 51s):Oh no. Yeah. There's nothing boring about this movie. It's called the subject. Everybody go check it out. But before I forget, she's the Hutchinson. Congratulations. You survived hotter school. You survived theater school to fancy theater school.Chisa Hutchinson (31m 7s):Well, yeah, sort of. Okay. So I went to Vassar college for undergrad. Yeah. Which was interesting because I knew it was a good theater program, but I didn't know that it was mostly geared toward writers and directors. Because when I, when I sent him down, there was like literally one dramatic writing class taught by a screenwriter who was like, oh yeah, I guess you can write plays if you want. Really like, learned much about the craft of playwriting while I was there.Chisa Hutchinson (31m 46s):But, but I had a good time and I did a lot of independent studies in the English department and the Africana studies department, just to like, you know, learn about plays theater, you know, scripts plays that weren't, you know, Shakespeare or insulin or checkoff or whatever. Right. So that was undergrad. And then I worked for a few years as a high school English teacher.Jen Bosworth-Ramirez (32m 21s):My mom was a high school English teacher and it was, it was intense. Where did you teach?Chisa Hutchinson (32m 28s):I taught at Westtown school, which is a Quaker boarding school in Pennsylvania, like 45 minutes Southwest of Philadelphia. And then I taught at Sage hill school in Southern California, orange county, California, which was like a whole other planet. Okay. Like I felt like a whole ass in orange county, California and teaching there. Yeah.Gina Pulice (32m 60s):I feel like the, the cultural translation from the east coast to orange county might be one of the biggest riffs chasms that there is there. It's quiet.Jen Bosworth-Ramirez (33m 13s):I was just going to say, you're the first guests that we've had on. And we've had many that I've been like really sort of, no, not that I'm not excited to talk to everybody else, but your, your, I was telling Gina before this, that your bio is the greatest written bio I've ever read in my life. So I told her I'm the queen of queries. Like I write a bad-ass query letter, like, but you are the baddest ass of bios. Like, I, I love that stuff because for me they're usually so down boring, but you're, and same with queries.Jen Bosworth-Ramirez (33m 54s):Like, I, I love to write a good query cause it's kind of a challenge how that bio is. You write it like in a second. I mean, I know it's a little thing, but it's a really important thing to me becauseChisa Hutchinson (34m 7s):So long ago I don't even remember, but I just wanted to, I was like, oh, well, you know, there's going to be plenty of chance to send the short, dry, you know, you know, like formal bio. So I was like, I want my website to be, you know, I went to bio on my website to be, you know, to give a sense of like who I am as a person.Jen Bosworth-Ramirez (34m 30s):I feel like I, I was like, I with, and it's an, it's the words are economic. It's not like, it's like this long thing, but it's really short. And it's also so compelling. Anyway, I just, I just that's like my just, just, yeah, I have from zoneGina Pulice (34m 50s):It's on her website, everybody, chisahutchinson.com. You can check it out for yourself. It's veryJen Bosworth-Ramirez (34m 54s):Funny. Very good.Gina Pulice (34m 56s):Okay. So by the time you got to T I mean, so what I understand your grad school choice was rather intentional to be about play writing and you picked maybe probably the, one of the best schools did that. Oh. Or maybe you disagree,Chisa Hutchinson (35m 16s):Funny story about the no, no, I loved it. I knew I absolutely loved NYU. I'd probably learn more in one semester there than I did four years. That I'm sorry. I feel like I'm talking smack about vets. I'm really not trying to like smack talk Vassar. It's just, it's really, I think they're doing better now. They've hired a playwright that I really loved to teach playwriting there. So that's, I think progressJen Bosworth-Ramirez (35m 47s):We've had the thing where it's like, I I'm coming to the, the sort of realization that a lot of undergrads are kind of like, well, we'll give it a shot. We don't have a awesome, we're going to really do something good luck. And then you'll go to grad school and really learn. I mean, that's how I kind of feel. So I know you're not talkingChisa Hutchinson (36m 8s):Because I really had a wonderful time at the ribs of great, the great place. And I learned through experience, just not so much through the cracks. And then NYU, it was literally the only grad school I applied to. And that was because I had, I had a workshop production. It was my very first workshop production of a play ever at a professional theater company or not really the Lark play development center, which has since Closed.Chisa Hutchinson (36m 49s):And it makes me so sad because that police was like American idol for playwrights. And like, it was the place people knew to like go to the Lark, the Lark and new dramas are like the two places that everybody knows like, okay, you want to find the next half play. Right. And go to this place. Right. So I had my very first production of a, of a full length play at the Lark and they hooked me up. Oh, hardcore. I w at me, it was so many different people who I still work with to this day. Like, I, I love the LARC. Like everyone I met at the Lark, I have kept and I keep working with them. But the game changer was they set me up with Tina Howe as a mentor.Gina Pulice (37m 33s):Yeah, I did. I did one of her plays and theater school.Chisa Hutchinson (37m 38s):That woman is a genius as a wacky genius. Okay. First of all, she's like, I think back then she had to be in her late sixties, early seventies. I don't even know. Nobody knows how old you, how so? No. She is like this waspy, like proper wasp of a woman of a certain age, you know, who apparently responded like exuberantly to my, to my plate. She liked girls, which, which is about like, again, you know, teenage inner city lesbians, you know, like, so it was really weird to have her be like this, but what she responded to was like, I have like surreal elements in that play.Chisa Hutchinson (38m 25s):And she was, she knows what she's all about. That surreal stuff. So they sent me up with her. They were like, you should have dinner with her after, you know, your, your presentation. And I was like, yeah, yeah, cool. So I had dinner with Tina, how well we just like talked and talked and talked to this little gas so late that I was like, oh shit. Like, I'm about to miss my last train back to New Jersey. And she was like, oh, oh no, you will do no such thing. You will not, you are not taking the train back this late. You are coming home with me. And I was like, oh, okay. So you know how so I had a Latina, how, when we woke up and she made me breakfast and she's just talking, she's had you, do you have an MFA?Chisa Hutchinson (39m 11s):You need any of that say, and I was like, no. She was like, well, you have to not have to apply to grad programs. If you're going to apply, you should apply to some people at NYU. My best friend works at NYU and used to reply. And I'm going to write you a letter of recommendation and you're going to go to LA. So literally I put together like a found out that the down deadline for the application was literally the next day. So I application together in a day and like hand delivered it to the department of dramatic writing and I, and cross my fingers and was just like, all right, well, I'll tell me to apply.Chisa Hutchinson (39m 55s):So I applied and I got in, I got in with a full, a full ride and yeah, I had just an amazing, I love my professors there. They were so dope. And what they do is they make you write. So I concentrated in playwriting, which was a really smart move apparently, because playwrights are like the hot shit in Hollywood right now. But yeah, I concentrated and play writing, but they make you write in other mediums also, as you know, it's mandatory. You have to also take TV writing. You have to also take screenwriting. Yeah. And that is, turns out is a very smart way to structure your Germany.Chisa Hutchinson (40m 39s):We're all working everywhere now. You know, like if there's no, there's so much, you know, cross fertilization happening.Gina Pulice (40m 50s):Yeah. That's fantastic. So we only know about the playwriting program at, I think one other school. So at Tisch, did you, did you write stuff? They then got produced there by the students? I mean, like acting playsChisa Hutchinson (41m 6s):Is the only thing that they don't, because they're not what they try to do. They do have like one collaboration class where they bring in, they try to bring in as many professionals as possible because they want like the one sort of student variable, like the one factor, you know, to be student and everything else to be professionals. So they would bring in professional directors and professional actors for it. Wasn't yeah, it was, it was a little bizarre because it felt like you were just siloed from these people that you should be probably, you know, it'd be making connections with.Chisa Hutchinson (41m 49s):So it was a little ad in that respect, but I see, I get the philosophy behind it. Like I get that. They're like, we want to minimize the minimize or maximize the professionalism.Jen Bosworth-Ramirez (42m 4s):Right. I mean, it's, it's, it's just sounds like a really like super bad-ass program that I have a friend, a playwright friend named Michael Allen Harris. I don't know. He just graduated from loved it, loved it, loved it. And now, and I have this thing of going to a lot of grad schools now I'm like, I have a master's in counseling psych. I started a screenwriting program then dropped out because they were assholes. And then I'm like, now I'm like NYU grad school. I, you know, but anyway, I, I love this idea that you okay. Cause I'm, I'm in LA right now. And there's a lot of people that are like, and playwrights are hot shit in Hollywood.Jen Bosworth-Ramirez (42m 47s):Right. But I love the idea that you didn't go into playwriting to try to be a hot shit in Hollywood, unless you did. And I'm just making thatChisa Hutchinson (42m 57s):Like live theater, it just fits a medium that just affords you so much nuance. And like, there's just so many idiosyncrasies, you know, like you can do things. And I literally teach a class at the university of Delaware. I call it writing in 3d. It's just a playwriting class. But what I do is I make them do small, you know, short writing assignments. And each assignment is focused on some aspect. Some, some topics, some themes, some something, right. Some element that just takes on a whole other texture when it's live.Chisa Hutchinson (43m 40s):So like the first assignment that they get is like nudity. Right. Which c'mon, you know, like it's D you know, we see cities all day long on the screen, like, and it's no, no big. Right. But like in a live theater, that's a whole other thing. Right? Like nudity, you suddenly, you're like forced to really think about the significance of the nudity when it's like right there in your face. Right. So nudity, silence, silence in a theater is different from silence anywhere else, you know, like you can't really do silence and I'm novel, you know, it's like, well, it's a blank page. Right.Chisa Hutchinson (44m 19s):So with audience participation, like you literally can't do that anywhere else. You know? So yeah. Each assignment, I really try to get my students thinking the possibilities that, you know, they can take advantage of those in, in theater that they can't really get anywhere else.Gina Pulice (44m 41s):You're just making me think of something that makes me so sad, which is that a lot of us do approach just anything performance-related through theater, because it is so singularly special. And then as you have this line in your bio, you write these plays that have more than five characters and deal with themes of race. So they're probably never going to get produced. And actually the way, the way I met you was at the national new play network in Sacramento. I mean, I met you like passing hello, where they did a staged reading of your play America, which looks amazing. Has that ever been produced?Chisa Hutchinson (45m 19s):That is literally, it has been postponed twice pandemic postpartum, but it's where I'm going to start rehearsing for that in January, at alley theater in Houston.Gina Pulice (45m 30s):Fantastic. I'm really happy to hear that. So, you know, so theater gives us all of these things that we can't find elsewhere, and then there's zero money spent on it so that people like you only end up getting to do, you know, bring their brilliance, not only, but you get paid by bringing your brilliance to film and television, it's just kind of sad. You know, that there's, it's not a viable option to really make your living as a playwright.Chisa Hutchinson (46m 0s):It is. It is. I I'm not, if I knew how to fix it. Right. I, I would, but you know, I think we just need to just do the best we can. And every day I wake up feeling great. I mean, even on a, even on a shitty day, and I've had some pretty shitty days, especially like this past week or so, where, I mean just where you just feel gutted and, you know, come out and, or whatever. And you're like, just want to crawl into a cave. But then I'm like, literally like sitting in a house that you bought with, wow, you're doing, you're doing will pay.Chisa Hutchinson (46m 49s):And the fact that I get to do what I like in whatever capacity really, right. Like, okay, theater doesn't pay me enough to live on, but please screen, you know, screen writing or I get to teach. Like I get to talk to sit around every week, just telling young people, like I hear is why words are cool. And then they get all excited. And then they like present their work in class and then they get all, like, they get attached to each other's characters and things know like when they're reading over beating and workshop and it just, it just like tickles my soul.Chisa Hutchinson (47m 35s):So like, why, you know, why, why would I be sad about really anything?Jen Bosworth-Ramirez (47m 43s):Can I ask you a question about the gutted nearness of, so did you say I, you sort of brushed over it, but like the governess of, did you say reviews like of your films? Okay. Okay. So here's my question. Here's my question. Because you're someone that's working in an industry that I am like, oh my God. You know, because I'm me, I'm like, they've got it made, you know, whatever it's garbage. I know. But when a review, cause we talk a lot about, on this podcast about resilience or, and I'm obsessed with the idea of resilience or bouncing back, whatever you want to call it. What happens inside you that you're able to say, bitch, keep going. Like, what is that moment for you?Jen Bosworth-Ramirez (48m 24s):Because I'm, I had a week where a asshole said some asshole you things as they do. And then I had to like regroup and keep on with my, my situation. So what did for you, how do you do that as someone, you know, how do you do it?Chisa Hutchinson (48m 40s):Okay. So this is a thing that comes with time. This writing shit, like it's a war of attrition is, is really, really only the people who stick around are the ones who get to succeed on any level really. Right. So if you stick around long enough, right. If you just don't let, when someone kicks you in the face, right. You just kind of have to be like, get up and keep walking. What, what, what did it for me? I think it was like the third or fourth, like mixed review that I got in the times for a play prediction.Chisa Hutchinson (49m 28s):And, and then I thought, bitch, this is, this is your fourth review. And the TA, one of them was like really good, you know, like of all the reviews that I've gotten and I'm picking on the times, because of course that's the one that everybody sees. Right. But like whenever, you know, the reviews come out and some of them are like really fuses and wonderful and that's like fuel and it's, it's awesome. They're usually on the, like really rinky-dink like platforms with like 300 followers. Right. But, but you're like, oh, somebody gets it.Chisa Hutchinson (50m 8s):You know, like somebody, somebody out there, guess what I'm trying to do too bad. Those somebodies they're not the ones with the giant platforms, but it's okay. And so you read those and you absorb them, but then like if you just sort of take a step back and like, I, you know, like I didn't realize, you know, these reviews aren't actually keeping me from getting work. I mean, it would certainly help to have a great review right. In some, you know, in the, whatever the Washington post, whatever, right. Like whatever, big, whatever big platform, it would certainly help to have a great review, but I'm still working.Chisa Hutchinson (50m 49s):Like I still get work, even if, you know, I haven't been anointed by the New York times. Right. Like, so it really is just a matter of like hanging in there. Like, I, I hate to sayJen Bosworth-Ramirez (51m 2s):I love that because, because that is something that I, and we have control over is hanging in there versus having control over whether, whoever at whatever paper or whatever, whatever loves me. I have no control over that, but I can control whether I hang in there or whether it's worth it to hang in there or not. So that's actually something you can actually do. So I like that. It's like, I can do thatChisa Hutchinson (51m 26s):And I'll work on the next thing. Just be working on the next, keep writing happens that when I find that I like get over bad routes, the fastest when I'm already in the middle of the next project. Sure. So like right now I'm working at, so you mentioned the subject just got released this past week, last, last week. Oh my God. How's that week. We just had our premiere party a week ago already, but yeah. And the reviews have been mixed, you know, some people like really get it. And some people I'm like, you are completely missing the point. Like you're completely missing the point and it's very frustrating, but I don't even really have time to be too concerned about it because I'm like, I'm literally in a writer's room for a Hulu show right now.Chisa Hutchinson (52m 16s):So I'm really, I'm, I'm my revision actually is due today after like, I'm going to have to like, you know, I was right in that. I have like 10 more pages that I need to trim, but yeah, I, I can't, I don't, I don't have time to while I can just, you just gotta be like all up in the next thing, all that.Gina Pulice (52m 35s):And it does make sense that review, I mean, reviews are, people have feel all kinds of artists have feelings about reviews, but it really makes sense that a writer would have a hard time, you know, just for example, ignoring reviews because your life is about words and that's what that's, what's happening in a review is the people are assembling words to, to decide, you know, pass judgment on whether or not you have something interesting to say,Chisa Hutchinson (53m 3s):When you write about something personal or when you write about something about which you're passionate, that it feels, so it feels like they just took a knife to your heart, you know? Like it feels so like, yeah, let me just swallow my pride with a chaser of napalm, you know, just like BR like, it just burns you on the inside and you, you just, it feels like you're never going to get over it, but you will. You do, you do the next thing and yeah,Jen Bosworth-Ramirez (53m 35s):Really. I mean, ultimately it's like, you know, fuck you and goodbye and good luck and onward, but I love the idea of moving. I always be, cause people used to tell me like, just keep writing and I'd be like, go fuck yourself because I don't want to keep writing. I want someone to like my last project not, but it's true. Like if I can shut up and, and, and stop feeling, sorry for myself, I, I look, it feels good to feel sorry for myself for a little bit. But I feel like if I can actually do something rather than ruminate and create more work, then the steam comes out of it. Just because simply there's not enough space in my brain to keep thinking about what Joe Schmo said in his last email.Jen Bosworth-Ramirez (54m 21s):So it is that it's just like focus on the writing, you know, sounds so easy to do, but it's actually, for me, a self preservation thing to keep writing, instead of ruminating on all the things that went wrong with the last, the last project or whatever, you know?Chisa Hutchinson (54m 38s):Yeah. And I'm very lucky also to be doing this in a time where there's Instagram and TikTok because I have like, literally I have like a little collection of videos specifically that I just, that no matter what the hell is going on, like they always make me,Jen Bosworth-Ramirez (54m 59s):I love that made me laugh minus the stone guy shoveling. Have you seen, okay, so this is an old one, but it, if anyone out there has, there's a guy who's trying to shovel snow and he cannot get it together. And he keeps falling and it's sort of a metaphor for my life and he just keeps it at the end. He just goes, fuck it. And show that shovel. And there's someone filming his neighbors filming, cracking up, but quietly not trying to make fun, but like in a way that like, man, we have all been there. The dude cannot shovel to save his life. And I was like that. I relate to that shit because it's just like, you're just shoveling and falling in your own shit and falling and someone's bike going way to go.Jen Bosworth-Ramirez (55m 44s):I feel you. So with the Tik-toks, I, I, that's a really good thing to do. You keep them for when you feel bad, you watch them or just whenever.Chisa Hutchinson (55m 52s):And then when I'm just like to set for words, you know, I just need to watch a video of big fluffy dogs ripping down the stairs. No, with the voiceover that's like curse. It just, oh my God. It gets everyJen Bosworth-Ramirez (56m 7s):Time,Chisa Hutchinson (56m 9s):Every timeJen Bosworth-Ramirez (56m 11s):I love it, I want to see it. I'm gonna look it up. It's a dog cursing like a voiceover.Chisa Hutchinson (56m 16s):I really wish. Yeah. And he's like this, there are three, three big fluffy fucking dog. You just want to like squeeze them. They're so fucking big and fluffy, you know? And they're like, there are these concrete cores outdoors right there, like three or four stairs. And they're running along the top, the top stair, I'm about to make their way down. But because the coloring and the, you know, how shallow, because of the way the stairs are built on the color, you don't, if you have no depth perception, right. Which those dogs clear would be not.Chisa Hutchinson (56m 57s):It's hard to know that it's not just like grown, we'll go running along the stairs. And one of them that one in the front is like, oh, I can't wait to the, and then I can't wait to get to the, and then he goes Like tumbles down the,Gina Pulice (57m 18s):Okay, we're going to have to try to link to that in our show notes. So people can check it out.Chisa Hutchinson (57m 23s):I will, we send that to you because it cracks me up.Jen Bosworth-Ramirez (57m 29s):I'm obsessed. And you're making me see why fails are so important. Like, I love fail videos. I watch news bloopers all day long because what it is is people trying their best to be sincere and be like, I take themselves so serious. I'm going to do my job. And then all of a sudden, the chair falls out and they're like still trying to do their goddamn job. And they're like, and anyway, I'm the news. And you're like, I love it because I feel like that 90% of my fucking life, I feel like I'm like, I could still do this while my legs are being taken out from under me. So anyway, Tik Toks and fails. Yes. They're worth something. They're really good.Jen Bosworth-Ramirez (58m 10s):I'm sorry.Gina Pulice (58m 12s):No, no, no. That's okay. No, but that's how it was. No, but it's, I mean, it's germane it's on the topic of survival is we all have ways of surviving the everyday banalities and everyday horrors of life. So you, right before we talked, started talking to you for the podcast, we always do another section of just us talking before. And we were talking about secrets and we were talking about, you know, especially as it pertains to your profession and personal writing, the dangerous territory that you start navigating when it gets into the territory of like family secrets. And I don't mean, you know, so-and-so whatever cheated on his wife.Gina Pulice (58m 57s):I just mean maybe more like a thematic secret where we're protecting this abusive behavior. We're protecting this abusive personality. And I recently in my life made a decision to stop doing that in, in, in multiple arenas, but specifically in one and my awakening about it is all about, I'm not holding anybody else's secrets anymore. It's not me. If you don't want me, if you don't like that about me, then you probably need to reevaluate your relationship with me. I'm done holding on to other people's secrets and actually your movie touches on that a lot.Gina Pulice (59m 42s):And I'm just curious about your own relationship professionally speaking to secrets and how you navigate that test, the difference between say or the potential chasm between saying something that's really true for you and saying something that could somehow hurt you in the future.Chisa Hutchinson (1h 0m 7s):Wow. That's that sounds serious. That's a serious question. I'm kind of with you as far as like, like my husband, for example, he knows he has known from year one when we first started dating that. Like, if it's happening to you while I know you, like, if it's happening between us, like that should it's part like, like that's like, that's, that's fatter. Like I'm gonna, I will use that. Like as an I don't care if it really sort of is a little unschooled, do you?Chisa Hutchinson (1h 0m 47s):Oh, okay. So for example, I wrote, I wrote a book called 101 reasons to not breed. Yes. Lemon. One of the reasons is like kids, if you miss me, like, they're just messy. It's shit. Right. So what I did was I don't have kids. I don't want kids. I'm very clear on this. Right. But I do have a husband who just doesn't even see mess anymore. Doesn't realize when he's like leaving stuff for, so I literally just spent a good few months just taking pictures and text messages that he left around her.Chisa Hutchinson (1h 1m 33s):I mean, ridiculous fucking message. Like socks on the kitchen, counter, dirty socks on the kitchen. I'm like, fuck. Okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I will take a picture of the toilet that you did not cross blew it up. Right. You know what I'm saying? Like, I will put, I will literally put your shit on. I will put your shit out there for the world. See if you don't start cleaning up after yourself. Right. Like, so that's okay. Like that's a kind of a funny, you know, version of, of, of that. Right. But there are some other things, there are other things, I mean, in the same book, I actually talk about my mother and my biological mother who gave me away when I was three.Chisa Hutchinson (1h 2m 19s):But like before that, I mean, some of my earliest memories are of her like beating the shit out of me, you know, her and my stepdad beating the crap out of me at three, you know? So yeah. I don't, I don't, I have never had qualms about putting I'm like, you didn't have qualms about putting your fist to my, my little face. Right. So I'm not going to have qualms about like, putting that out there and trying to turn it into a positive, in case there's someone else out there who is feeling some type of way about the fact that their mother abandoned them or whatever, you know, like, I just want to let you know, like, I'm connecting with you, right. You are not alone.Chisa Hutchinson (1h 2m 59s):Right. And you know, you find your family where you can and that's sort of the message of the book is that you don't actually have to like grow grass root, right. Or, or even honor the fact that someone grew you right. In order to, to have family into it and to feel that that familial love. So that's what the book is, is supposed to doGina Pulice (1h 3m 28s):Truett fruit. Oh crap. Okay.Chisa Hutchinson (1h 3m 32s):I love it. So yeah, I, I will, I don't, there's really no such thing as a secret withGina Pulice (1h 3m 40s):You don't have a, a quandary about it. You just go straight .Chisa Hutchinson (1h 3m 47s):I do. I will let people know though, because I don't want to, you don't want to be bad art friend. Right? LikeGina Pulice (1h 3m 56s):Our friends on this podcast,Chisa Hutchinson (1h 3m 58s):I will let you know. I'm like, Hey look, because I left my husband and I'm like, look, I'm putting, do you see these pictures? You know, you see all these shit, you left around the house. Yeah. I took pictures of all of it and it's going in the book. Right. Like he knows, you know, his step, I just, or I'll ask if there's something like, I'm like, ah, hi, how do you feel about me too? Because here's why I'm thinking it will serve the story really well. Or here's why I think it'll help other people connect with it. Or, you know what I mean? Like, I I'm, I'm very clear on like, why I need a particular thing why I need to expose dirty laundry. Right, right, right.Chisa Hutchinson (1h 4m 39s):So, and as long as I can voice that, like most folks are okay with it. Well, what really cracks me up is when the people don't even recognize themselves in yourGina Pulice (1h 4m 49s):Oh, right. They'll or they'll, they'll tell, they'll tell you the character that they know you meant to be them. And it's not, it's like an admirable character and that's not who you areChisa Hutchinson (1h 4m 60s):Now that ain't too.Jen Bosworth-Ramirez (1h 5m 2s):I have a question as it relates to like, and I told you to, before this, I was going to ask you this. So I sent him a letter to someone, a query, and I said like, I'm a Latina, I'm a middle aged woman. I'm getting into television bubble. Anyway, I got a horrific, crazy response. And my initial response was to drag the motherfucker on Twitter, but I didn't do it. What, what do you think about, I don't even know if drags the right word out, whatever it is. It was a terrible situation that I felt. And my first response was, I'm going to get this motherfucker. I did not do it. I did not do it. But what do you feel about people that are go, go on social media or groups or whatever.Jen Bosworth-Ramirez (1h 5m 44s):I just, what are your thoughts on saying on, on, on doing that? Cause people are doing it a lot, you know? And, and I don't, I don't necessarily Gina and I talked about like, I'm not sure it's a terrible thing. I just, it wasn't right for me to do in that moment also, becauseChisa Hutchinson (1h 6m 1s):It's not a terrible thing, but it's not a great, I mean, it's not very everyone. Like, I, I don't really do it so much because I feel like it's giving them too much power or it's, it's that thing of like, okay, yeah. Dwell, dwell on it for five minutes and then move on like that, because that's, that's really how you can get back at those motherfuckers, right. Is to just like go on with your life and be happy and, you know, find joy elsewhere. Right? Like that's and, you know, to, to dignify their, their fuckery was, you know, you are strongly worded Facebook posts.Chisa Hutchinson (1h 6m 47s):Right. Is what is it doing? You know? I mean, would you feel better? It might make you feel better just to kind of like, get it out there. It also might help you connect with, you know, other people who have experienced a similar thing. Right. And, you know, maybe they were feeling isolated or alone and they're in their failure or in their, whatever it is. Right. So, I mean, I'm not gonna say it doesn't have its uses. Right. But as far as like, is it getting back at that personJen Bosworth-Ramirez (1h 7m 18s):And also, right.Chisa Hutchinson (1h 7m 22s):I really I'm just, so this is a lesson that I'm really just now getting around to like learning in a, in a sort of visceral way. Is that like nobody cares? No, I literally just today was, well that's right. Post, because I saw on IMD be the subject. There are a couple of, and it's really just a couple, like, there are a couple of really awful, I mean, Pete, just users who were just like, you know, clearly expecting it to be a comedy because Jason business owner or something, Make movies fun again, you know? And I was just like, oh dude.Chisa Hutchinson (1h 8m 3s):And they're the ones who, who will take the time to like post over review or post it's their, I can't even call them props because they would have to be thinking I would have to have brain. Right. But I did, like, I went on Facebook, like the closest I'll come is like, I went on Facebook and was like, Hey, y'all alert if you enjoy the movie, like, please rate it. Please post a review because these guys like their opinions, shouldn't be the stand in for everybody. Else's right. And that's, that's really about as close as I'll come. But even that I'm like, I was torn about doing that because I'm like, doesn't even, does it even matter?Chisa Hutchinson (1h 8m 47s):Like,Gina Pulice (1h 8m 48s):And it gets back to this whole thing about reviews because I saw your post and it's specifically men over 45 or something like that. And I thought, yeah, but who else is writing these things, but men over 45, like I'm guilty of loving something and then not writing it down anywhere that I love it because it's, so it's such an, it has become such an important part of art making, like how are people receiving it? And is it getting enough views? And is it getting enough, you know, clicks. And to me it's always just like the person who ha, who wants to take their time when it's not positive to tell you that you put your heart and soul into something and they didn't care for it.Gina Pulice (1h 9m 31s):And I don't understand the impulse, actually.Jen Bosworth-Ramirez (1h 9m 34s):This is the biggest demographic of voters, by the way. I think too, like I I'm just saying like, these are people that like really when they feel something, they feel really entitled to just like trash it. Or I think the, the, maybe the rest of us are so busy surviving. We don't write nice reviews. I don't know. But I started to write good reviews because I realized that for people, for people in that are trying to make projects, whether it's in the arts or not that it actually matters that the rest of us speak up because those voices, like you're saying don't need to be the loudest. Cause they're not, they're not the only voices out there. There's this is people that take the time to click away. Same with the guy who ran the time to use his time to write me a nasty,Chisa Hutchinson (1h 10m 17s):You know, like they're, they, they have a sense of self-importance that I think the rest of us not. And I'm just like, ah,Jen Bosworth-Ramirez (1h 10m 27s):Right, right. So I think the way to counter it is for the rest of us to start for me anyway. Cause I'm, I'm guilty too, of like not when something is great, not saying like, Hey, I love this product. Even if it's a candle, like we have a friend that makes candles, you know, and Gina, you posted about it. That matters. That's that? It's like, I got to take time out of my day, even though I'm busy hustling and all this stuff to like support the things that I do, like so that the loud, loud ass, old white dudes, don't just get to have the whole market cornered on reviews, like come on or whatever. So I think,Chisa Hutchinson (1h 11m 7s):You know, to bark the thing that I like out of existence, right? Like, because that is a thing that can happen too, when there's a perception that like, oh, well nobody wants this. Right. But the only people who have been, you know, it'sJen Bosworth-Ramirez (1h 11m 22s):And it's like, oh, this movie, this movie, or this project or whatever didn't do well, no, no, it actually did fine. It was just that the people that were screaming the loudest and felt entitled to scream, you know, people, we think that we give them importance. So it's like, we have to take back the, the importance of like, you know, the other voices it's just goes about like other voices in the room that aren't, aren't being heard.Chisa Hutchinson (1h 11m 45s):People kno

Mad Radio
Payne & Pendergast Hour 1: Has a Watson Deal been Agreed to?

Mad Radio

Play Episode Listen Later Oct 27, 2021 39:36


Seth and Sean discuss the Astros tough loss last night, dive into why Texans owner Cal McNair is in the news, and try to figure out if a deal has been all but finalized for Deshaun Watson. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

The Fantasy Football Show - with Smitty
Breaking: Deshaun Watson trade to Miami Dolphins agreed to in principal? But?

The Fantasy Football Show - with Smitty

Play Episode Listen Later Oct 27, 2021 38:59


(S2:E228) On this episode of The Fantasy Football Show, Smitty breaks down the topic: Breaking: Deshaun Watson trade to Miami Dolphins agreed to in principal? But? ... Smitty breaks down what is holding the deal up, and the likelihood, in his opinion, of a deal going through. Catch Smitty's video version of this show at https://youtube.com/thefantasyfootballshow #deshaunwatson #breakingnflnews #deshaunwatsontrade #dolphins #texans

The Bledsoe Show
Fear & Goals

The Bledsoe Show

Play Episode Listen Later Oct 26, 2021 67:54


00:02.80 mikebledsoe Fear and goals this comes up a lot lot of people are I talk to people all the time and who are interested in developing themselves and 1 the common things that come up is. Yeah, ask them. You know what's holding you back from you reaching your goals right now and they'll be they'll just say fear or go. Oh well, what are you afraid of and ah and then they go oh I haven't thought that far. Ah. And so we start naming them off. So ah I'm excited to talk about today's topic which max suggested which is fear and goals identifying fierce sateers of goals. So ah, oh oh. 00:53.44 Max Shank Spoiler alert there's only 1 fear. 00:58.74 mikebledsoe We're not going to tell you what it is until the very end though so you got to stick around. 01:00.38 Max Shank Ah, it's not much of a spoiler alert thing. Is it. 01:06.12 mikebledsoe Ah, the no no, it's not. 01:10.75 Max Shank It'll make sense too. Once I say it people you'd be like oh yeah, of course, there's only 1 thing that we're really afraid of. 01:15.70 mikebledsoe Ah, so what we were talking just before we hopped on about people feeling safe and how most people in order to feel safe try to make enough money and if I make enough money then I'll feel safe. You know then I'll be able to live a good life and then ah people make the money and then you know now they they realize that they're responsible for their own health or their own physical protection and so they start investing in that next. Ah, but ah, the way I think about it is you know you can always just decide to feel safe and then because there's always gonna be something to do next in order to feel safer. 02:10.92 Max Shank It's kind of the it's there's a parallel between how evolution first ah like prioritized armor in fish like bony. Armored fish and then they just got faster and faster so speed was king and since we have this pretty far out ability if you pardon the pun to see pretty far out into the future. The. Fastest speed ever is preemptive. So once you settle or um, swaddle maybe like 1 fear you like make yourself feel safe. Then you just think forward on to the next 1 and usually the people who make the biggest waves in their lives are the ones who are never satisfied with where they're at they're thinking on to the next thing and on to the next thing and on to the next thing and I mean I was definitely that way. It was always. Onto the next thing and once you get ah 1 thing ah locked in because that's what people really want because we can think forward. We think like okay if I have this much money for retirement then I'm like locked in to safety if I get married then I'm locked in. To a romantic relationship and you know you have all of these ideas. So um, security can span usually does span. Well beyond security in the present moment which is really just a reflexive reaction to danger rather than fear which is a preemptive prediction of what could happen in the future. 04:09.93 mikebledsoe Yeah, yeah, because it's not true until it happens so fear fear is and is born out of imagination. 04:15.88 Max Shank Right. 04:21.58 Max Shank Right? And it's effective to preempt um situations like so a squirrel saving nuts for the winter is making a prediction of how many extra nuts to save up. In order to go through the season where there aren't going to be any growing on the trees. So. It's effective and that's like ah I heard this term the other day about attention Deficit which is a warrior. 04:42.43 mikebledsoe Yeah, the. 04:56.47 Max Shank In a farmer's world or maybe a hunter in a farmer's world and I thought that was I thought that was 1 of the best ways I've ever heard it described it just says so much you know a lot of folks who would be amazing hunters like as soon as they see the tracks. 05:03.69 mikebledsoe Yeah, that makes sense. 05:14.99 Max Shank They're on it and they won't let go of that track and they'll just grind through and push and keep walking and keep going and hunt that thing down Maybe don't have the patience to hoe a field and like plant a bunch of seeds and you know plan that whole thing ahead. 05:26.63 mikebledsoe Yeah. 05:32.49 mikebledsoe Yeah, yeah, yeah, not projecting as far out into the future I was listening to a guy guy named Matt john vervacki he did a a youtube series of sixty 1 hour lectures and I forget. 05:33.78 Max Shank Right. 05:51.27 mikebledsoe Something about the meaning crisis is the name of the lectures and he talks about just the word project comes from projectile. Yeah, like the the hunters when they got they evolved far enough to start being able to go. 05:52.89 Max Shank A. Project. 06:11.27 mikebledsoe This target is moving in this direction at this speed and I must predict where it'll be as I let go of my spear and project it into the future because once you let it go. You know it's gonna land in the future and I was really. 06:21.30 Max Shank Who. 06:27.88 Max Shank Love it. 06:30.79 mikebledsoe Really really fascinating as he said was saying that I go and the word project is used in business to with a series of targets in which you're going to hit to accomplish a specific goal at the end and I go man. This is so brilliant So he's so spot on. So. 06:42.60 Max Shank Ah. 06:50.32 mikebledsoe Yeah, hearing you talk about? ah yeah, projecting in the future made me think of that. 06:57.21 Max Shank That's 1 of the most challenging things for people today I think is to be an active participant in selecting their time period that they're going to be in so you have ah the crystal ball which is projecting forward. You have the. 07:07.55 mikebledsoe Um. 07:14.84 Max Shank Book on the wall which is looking backward and then you have Baba ramdas be here now and then the future and the past just dissolve into this moment and if you're able to, um. Consciously instead of compulsively choose where you are then you're essentially some sort of superhuman. You know if you're constantly in the future. You're probably going to be in a very anxious individual. And you're not going to experience a lot of peace but you may. 07:50.10 mikebledsoe Or or you could be just ah, a lazy daydreamer if you if it's a positive if if you're thinking about things positive in the future all time. But you're not taking the action in order to make it happen right now. That's not gonna you know. 07:54.81 Max Shank Yeah, that's true. 08:05.43 Max Shank Right? I I think dwelling. Yeah well, it's ah anxiety is like a fixation or you're stuck in the future depression is usually you're stuck in the past 08:07.65 mikebledsoe That happened I seen that happen a lot too. But most people get anxiety. 08:22.22 mikebledsoe Okay, in. 08:24.78 Max Shank And everything's a gradient right? Everything is absolutely relative to your experience which is a funny term that I like absolutely relative but I like the I like the I never thought of ah project and projectile which is funny because it reminds me of. 08:39.26 mikebledsoe Yeah, yeah, yeah. 08:43.46 Max Shank 1 of my favorite scenes in any movie ever which is in 2001 a space odyssey where the Monkey man learns that when he's holding the bone in his hand and when it falls it creates like a bigger impact in the pile of bones. 08:47.94 mikebledsoe Where. 09:03.20 Max Shank And it's this dawning realization that there's an extension of his ah will let's say through the bone that increases the level of Impact. So What's funny is um. Like chimpanzees ah fight a lot. A lot is also relative. But what's interesting is when they're doing ah a display of a oh yeah. 09:29.66 mikebledsoe They have full on wars between the tribes. Not not just 2 champions chimpanzees fighting. There's like a tribe over here in a tribe over there and they go to war and they'll eat each other or bit bit cannibalistic as well. 09:37.83 Max Shank Ah, it's gnarly. Ah, oh yeah, yeah, cannibalism is not reserved for humans Apparently a lot of animals do that and not just the female. 09:49.49 mikebledsoe Yeah. 09:56.87 Max Shank Eating the male after mating which is crazy common too. Anyway, my point if I. 10:04.16 mikebledsoe Thank God I'm human that's not and that's not I might have to be afraid of my girlfriend eating me. 10:08.91 Max Shank No, no, no, they don't they don't like literally eat you. They just ah and I I'll save that for I won't offend our last 3 female listeners. 10:16.58 mikebledsoe Ah, you. 10:23.52 Max Shank Ah, ah so anyway, the chimps they during displays of dominance will pick up huge tree branches and swing them around like they can hold it in their hand. They'll swing and they'll It'll be like Holy Lord that. 10:34.81 mikebledsoe So a. 10:42.88 Max Shank Monkey that chimp just swung a fucking like 4 by 4 sized cylindrical log through the air with insane speed but they never hit each other with a stick that. Amount that amount of extension. Ah cerebrally doesn't exist for them. So even to go from hand to stick to projectile is a huge ah extension of your will. 11:20.67 mikebledsoe Yeah, someone call that expansion of consciousness. So yeah man I'm not the guy who wrote power versus force remember him what's his name man he had a quote which is ah. 11:20.94 Max Shank Into the future. 11:28.70 Max Shank It's a good word for it. Yeah. 11:33.21 Max Shank No. 11:39.94 mikebledsoe Ah, there is no passage of time. There's only an expansion of consciousness and something to it's so it's a good. It's a good meditative quote to consider I've found. Ah so I'm curious since we're gonna be talking about. 11:43.40 Max Shank So. 11:50.81 Max Shank Right. 11:58.83 mikebledsoe Talk about fears and goals and you and I are both 1 of the reasons we do. This show is because you and I have both accomplished a lot of goals. You know, a lot of people set out to do things and they don't do them I know that you and I have both set out to accomplish goals failed out them. We've also succeeded at them and then realized we didn't want the thing that we thought we wanted but it was good that we accomplished the goal so we could learn that we didn't care about that. Ah, and so we've gotten very good at reaching goals which means that we've also. Been able to overcome a lot of fears in the process. So I'm curious for you. You know I'd love to know what your biggest fear was as you were developing as a young man and you were trying to achieve goals. What was the thing that. 12:50.39 Max Shank Oh. 12:55.65 mikebledsoe I know what mine is I'm wondering if you you know, but that there was like 1 primary fear that that held you back maybe in business or in athletics or something like that. 13:04.80 Max Shank I mean I actually just wrote them all down the other day um, trying to trace him back as far as I can't for me, it was ah the fear that I I wouldn't be like physically safe. Um. 13:09.32 mikebledsoe Yeah. 13:19.60 mikebledsoe Um. 13:23.19 Max Shank The other thing was ah, not not being good enough I think these are really common fears but they'll relate back to the same ah single point of fear which is ah the death of the ego. The reason people fear their physical death is because they fear the the death of the Ego. So when people are afraid of Judgment. They're afraid of what that means for their story for their ego when they're so everything relates back to. 13:53.14 mikebledsoe So that. 13:59.60 Max Shank Can you move past the fear that the story of you will be harmed in some way so 1 of the things I've noticed is that. 14:10.22 mikebledsoe What do? what do we want to do we want to find ego sounds like you've given it somewhat of a definition and I know that when people hear ego. There's cool I like that I. 14:19.26 Max Shank Let's just call it. The story. The story of you Yeah, your identity your identity your self image story of you So when you're thinking about like how do I protect myself physically. Yes, That's a natural instinct and it's also because the thought of not existing is like really scary to the ego I mean the reason people want to be good. Parents is they want to be thought of as good parents and they want to set up their loved ones. But it all it all relates back. To the fear of the identity being tarnished and that leads back to ancient cultures where it was thought of as way worse to be exiled than it was to be killed and you can even look at ah. Less ancient cultures where you know they have hara kiri where if you you know, shame your family or shame yourself you you disembowel yourself with a samurai sword and your buddy will chop off your head as an act of Mercy. After that just to make sure the job gets done and that's a way that you don't bring shame to your entire lineage so that multigenerational or intergenerational ego or identity is preserved even though the life. Of the physical body of that individual. Um, you know was caught in momentary shame and that's how you sort of save Face. So. It's really interesting to see what lengths human beings will go to to preserve. Story They'll kill themselves. They'll kill other people. Um, yeah, you know how dare those other guys believe in a different deity than us We have to kill them. 16:15.63 mikebledsoe They'll kill for it. Yeah. 16:31.83 Max Shank What. 16:31.85 mikebledsoe Ah, you said 1 thing which was you had a fear of not good enough I've always thought about that fear I come across that a lot in coaching and you know it's a good blanket because it that is the phrase. That runs through someone's mind I'm like oh I'm not good enough to curious what you didn't feel like you would like what are the things you were afraid you were not going to be good enough at you weren't going to be good enough to do what. 16:58.59 Max Shank Well initially I just struggled really hard with school I mean I almost got held back in several grades I failed Classes. You know I'd be there sitting in the desk just fucking suffering. Thinking back to the old days where I could just run around outside and play with a stick then you know ah not being able to pay attention and so I would get really bad grades and really Behind. On everything so I was just always behind um with regard to what I thought was everybody else learning all these things that you know I was made to believe were were really important. Of course that's not. Not really the case like memorizing factoids and obeying Authority turns out is not actually that useful for overall overall life Success. So. 18:03.85 mikebledsoe That's not learning. Yeah well 1 of the things I I tell people early and in my courses is learning has been Misrepresented. You were. You weren't actually taught how to learn you were taught how to I don't I leave the obey part out because I don't want to trigger people too bad, but ah, not early on but why I like that it's it's a gradual trigger system. You know I start with like 1 that they can palate and then. 18:28.49 Max Shank You don't want to trigger people too bad. That's funny. 18:40.50 mikebledsoe Make it palatable. Yeah. 18:40.53 Max Shank It's like Scientology. It's like scientology at first it's like you just got to get your thinking clear and then level 10 is like the evil alien overlord is making you sad and you're like whoa. If you had talked about this on day 1 I might not have stuck around. 18:56.50 mikebledsoe Yeah, Ah, but you know ah in in our education system people are taught that being able to memorize and regurgitate is learning and so they. People become adults and they listen to podcasts and they make notes and they think they're learning but you don't you didn't learn anything until you've actually gotten the benefit of the learning which is you've changed a behavior. So I I like to define learning as Behavior change. 19:29.51 Max Shank And. 19:34.38 mikebledsoe I Don't want to hear from any of my students that you learn something until you've done it because until then it's still just an idea in just because it came from me doesn't mean it's right, You got to test it out for yourself. 19:43.99 Max Shank Oh man I couldn't agree with that more because not only that if you don't apply something even if you did learn it and use it once. It's not going to stay I mean that's 1 of the it's probably an advantage. Um, emotionally that we don't remember every single thing that happened to us all the time if you take in some information and use it 1 time.. It's probably not going to really permeate into your identity or into your life. It's only the stuff that you use with some regularity that stays in the in the tool belt which is what you have access to all the time. 20:28.47 mikebledsoe You know all right? So you you fell you weren't gonna be good enough. You didn't do well in school. 20:35.44 Max Shank Yeah, so I mean the main thing really was just I didn't feel ah safe financially and you know we got foreclosed on evicted a couple times and bumped around like that. Oh yeah, i'm. 20:48.57 mikebledsoe When you were a kid. Oh wow. 20:54.00 Max Shank I mean I've had a job straight through since I was twelve I start ah contributing to the the family unit which I actually see as a pretty big advantage in a lot of ways. Um because you just get more experience. 21:05.43 mikebledsoe I. 21:13.40 Max Shank With the concept of value generation which I think is the absolute most important thing. So It's um, hunger pain and desire are all synonyms. And I think that's 1 of the most important things to understand if you're looking to pursue some goals or overcome some fears fear is like ah a psychological pain almost.. It's a fear of a feeling more than anything else or you're just pre-empting some sort of. 21:43.19 mikebledsoe No. 21:49.40 Max Shank Loss. Um, and ah, it's a feeling right. 21:49.94 mikebledsoe Yeah, most of the time when we're avoiding a situation. We're avoiding a conversation. We're avoiding it having a feeling. It's not the situation. It's how it's gonna make us feel and 1 of the things that's created the most freedom for me is. Taking on the you know made it made I've made it a goal to accept love and eventually become comfortable with all feelings that come Up. You know so that the the feelings I used to avoid because I I didn't like them. 22:19.31 Max Shank Oh. 22:27.50 mikebledsoe I Can I can now love sadness. You know where whereas I couldn't love it for I dwelled in guilt where now I just get to be with what I felt guilty about and then move on whereas yeah there was just. 22:33.18 Max Shank Oh. 22:43.77 mikebledsoe Were things I would indulge in and things that I would avoid and it all came from fear and getting to know that that which I'm afraid of Intimately has created a lot of freedom for me. Um I call it emotional freedom but you know that radiates into. 22:45.31 Max Shank Oh. 22:57.61 Max Shank Oh. 23:02.36 mikebledsoe All my behaviors. My psychological freedom my physical freedom all of that I found that if you if you manage the emotional fear and you become friends with it then it loses its power. 23:05.35 Max Shank M. 23:17.72 Max Shank I would have to agree I mean and as you well know a lot of our fears and pains are psychological but they manifest physically so you may have I mean that's why. 23:31.41 mikebledsoe Me. 23:36.27 Max Shank Low back pain is 1 of the I think it is still the most common pain even in sedentary workers. So workers comp. It's ah it's full of people with low back pain who don't lift anything and it's not.. It's not just because they're. Weak is because they're sad and that's the that's a funny revelation. Especially if as I did I started approach I started my approach to physical freedom with get as strong and fast as possible. 23:55.38 mikebledsoe Um, you know. 24:12.56 Max Shank Circled back to oh wait, everybody hurts all the time. So then I became like a ah body mechanic and was like oh well your knee hurts because your hamstrings are weak and your quads are tight now tell me I'm smart or something like that. Ah. And it gets like more and more complex into the nervous system and motor unit recruitment and all this stuff and if you don't respect the reality that psychological pains can manifest as physical pains. Your. Gonna have a really hard time treating that whole self right. 24:51.46 mikebledsoe Yeah, yeah I watch people when I when I started getting hip to the emotional um emotional energy and whether it's being whether it's flowing or suppressing. Ah once I got hip to. Oh. 25:05.89 Max Shank A. 25:11.11 mikebledsoe Ah, like I had some emotional energy moved from my my pelvic region and like I really felt it move like it was a brick that moved out of my body all of a sudden I had flexibility in my hamstrings that flexibility in my hips. My back stopped stopped hurting ah and. 25:20.50 Max Shank A. 25:29.81 mikebledsoe And I really went down a deep rabbit hole with that and then I would walk into a gym and talking to people and they're having to they're wrapping themselves with bands and doing all sorts of crazy Mobes before they work out and you know I come to find out they have to do that. 25:40.29 Max Shank Who. 25:47.75 mikebledsoe Every single time before they squat I was like oh you can't just do like a simple five ten minute warm up and then squat without pain. It's like this is not a this is not because you're not wrapping yourself with enough bands. This is. 25:48.50 Max Shank Ah. 26:02.50 Max Shank Just need a few more bands I think it's just a couple more you're like 3 bands away. 26:06.26 mikebledsoe Ah, yeah, yeah, was like it's like wow you know, um and I remember bringing this up years ago when it was first dawning on me and you know having a popular podcast and talking about it. Publicly people are like mike's lost his fucking mind. 26:24.42 Max Shank Yeah. 26:26.23 mikebledsoe And I was like okay I think now I think it took me some time to learn how to explain it better. But I also think that generally our culture is has become more hit to these ideas as well. Not everybody but I would say. 26:41.16 Max Shank Now some. 26:44.76 mikebledsoe More I come across more people that that immediately agree with that I get less pushback than I used to. 26:50.19 Max Shank Well, the purpose of pain is to get you back into safety. The the reason for pain is it's just an action signal but it's not specific. So if you feel a pain in your knee. That's not necessarily where. The problem is it's just saying do something different. That's all very nonspecific, but the purpose is is to protect you and protection and safety and security. Once again, they're all synonyms like we're all you know we're framing. 27:11.76 mikebledsoe Um, yeah. 27:28.34 Max Shank These fundamental realities of life as slightly different things. Hunger pain desire safety security. They're all very very similar so you have to I you don't have to but I I think it's helpful to recognize which are which are synonyms. So you can sort of start grouping them together and discover what the underlying sensation is right? and it's like we talked about a few episodes ago. Ah with the 3 levels of your brain you have to secure the lizard love the mammal so you can free the wizard which is the. Reptilian mamma alienlian and neocortex and if you are just living in a state of fight or flight which you can send yourself there just by watching the news. It's game over you'll just be constantly like I'm I'm afraid and you have no ability. To use your Neocortex. It's like an abused dog who just bites anyone that comes close. 28:35.76 mikebledsoe Yeah. 28:36.67 Max Shank Ah, it's ah it's It's a tricky thing I mean we're really emotional creatures but that's also our strength because we want to share um the bounty we want to share the load. We want to alleviate the suffering of our of our fellows. Um. You know Lizards don't really do that I'm not trying to like ah bad mouth Lizards or something like that I think Lizards are great creatures as Well. It's just a different strategy. 29:05.34 mikebledsoe Yeah, you believe in the lizard people. 29:10.14 Max Shank I Believe some people exhibit lizard-like characteristics. but but I also usually can see different traces of animals in people. 29:22.78 mikebledsoe Yeah. 29:25.26 Max Shank Like I'll see someone be like oh that person looks kind of giraffe-like or that person looks kind of bird-like you know what? I mean. 29:29.60 mikebledsoe Ah, ah yeah, there's something about women who wear like pointing masks that like I see a woman with a pointing mask at the grocery store and I want to get I Just want to go? Ah, ah. 29:38.16 Max Shank Ah, that's that's a bird. 29:47.73 Max Shank Well I think in ah the U K they I think in the Uk they're called Birds ladies. Yeah, yeah, these birds were down at the pub that sounds right? doesn't it. 29:47.86 mikebledsoe No woman wants to be called a bird I don't think what are women oh really? Ah well I well I know that. What was that tv show always sunny in Philadelphia they ah, they always called the woman in that show a bird and she hated it. D. 30:11.49 Max Shank D yeah, yeah, she hate it. Yeah of course. Well, that's America it's different in ah in the u k you can also walk up to a guy on the street and say hey can I bum a fag and that's it's a totally normal thing to say. But if you said that here. People would find that offensive it means can I borrow can I borrow or have a cigarette That's what that means. 30:29.43 mikebledsoe Yeah, or you might yeah exactly I'm glad you cleared that up that that might have eluded some people. Ah 1 of the things I the pain like having knee pain may not meet. Mean and it usually doesn't mean there's a problem with your knee it it means there's a problem somewhere else, but it is a sign to change Behavior. It says hey let's do something different. Um, 1 of the things that I I ah try to be. 30:54.36 Max Shank Um, yeah action. Signal. 31:07.70 mikebledsoe Because again, if you're in this game very long. You realize that any pain in your body probably isn't because of that thing Specifically it can be but the best way to be is is to be curious and to start asking like hey what should I be what have I been doing that might be contributing to this. 31:15.33 Max Shank And. 31:26.55 mikebledsoe All right? do experiments to try to change it. Ah because really it comes down to you're you're responsible for your own health and you know, Ah, ah someone else can help you figure some things out and start pointing in the right direction. But. It's really up to you at the end of the day to figure out what's actually going on with you. 31:48.13 Max Shank That's ah, that's a super wise and powerful tool is curiosity I Even think the word curiosity is probably as close as you can get to a medicine for fear. Because Fear is also about the unknown rather than the known like you're afraid of what might happen to my story. Oh My God What if people hate me because once you know for sure that people will hate you. It's not really like a ah. You're not afraid of it Anymore. You're just like oh well,, That's what's going to happen Now. So Curiosity is also you don't know what's going on. So. It's also the unknown but it's just in a positive light. So you're bringing light to the unknown instead of. 32:25.70 mikebledsoe Yeah. 32:43.26 Max Shank Being stuck hiding from the darkness. So I think that that is probably if there's a big takeaway about Fear. It's that curiosity is the opposite it. It puts you right back into Neocortex it puts you right back into. Conscious takes you right out of compulsive fear spiral so fear and and curiosity. Um, you know you'll of course be afraid of things and really afraid of um. What may come to be right because you don't know exactly what it will be but curiosity same unknown but a totally different frame of reference. So that's that's huge I think of goals. 33:29.42 mikebledsoe E. 33:40.20 Max Shank And I think of action. So I always think of whenever I create a message of some kind I always start with what do I want who to do exactly. So. 33:54.40 mikebledsoe Hey. 33:56.51 Max Shank Who am I talking to and what exactly do I want them to do ah quite frankly, ah the time where I just write something so people read it is is long gone and it's not enough for me to get off my ass and do it's it just doesn't feel worth it. Which is exactly what I want to talk about now which is the pain to prospect ratio. It's an estimate that we make consciously or unconsciously about is the juice worth the squeeze and people. 34:27.53 mikebledsoe E. 34:31.63 Max Shank Especially with exercise are very bad at estimating they think oh it's it's just not worth it to do ah a ten minute exercise session or movement session because they're ah it's too much. Yeah, too much effort. Not enough payoff. Right? The pain is too great. The cost is too high. The benefit won't be high enough. So. 34:51.90 mikebledsoe Ah, yeah I don't think they realize the accumulatative effect people have a hard time projecting positivity in the future. 34:59.40 Max Shank What? Well you have to be able to defer gratification because in the short term exercise makes you weaker. Ah it depends what you do I mean there's ah. 35:09.67 mikebledsoe Yeah, yeah. 35:18.33 Max Shank Like a curve right? If you do a little bit of exercise. It makes you much stronger that day. But if you do a lot. It makes you much weaker that day and it's probably you know like most things kind of Bell curvish. But you have to be able to see long-term and defer gratification till later just like. Investing just like working on a long project. Um, some people maybe write books in 1 day but that's probably not very many people. The reason more people don't is you have to string a lot of. 35:46.62 mikebledsoe Yeah. 35:53.37 Max Shank Writing sessions together and in my case, the hardest part for sure is editing writing is so easy editing is is way ah way tougher I think ah but in order to do anything you have to meet a catalyst. 35:57.67 mikebledsoe Um, yeah, yeah. 36:13.30 Max Shank In your pain to prospect ratio which so I have a pretty weird motivational technique which is I don't I don't I'm not a good cheerleader but I just kind of point out the obvious and say look you know you can do this. And if you don't it just means you don't think it's worth it yet. That's all that's okay, like if you write in your journal for fifteen minutes every morning for 2 weeks. It means that you're probably taking this um mental practice that we're trying seriously and then. At the end of those 2 weeks. We'll have an idea of whether or not this is ah giving you some benefit and what you've gotten out of it and here are some tools of course like um, fill in the blanks type of stuff can be really beneficial for help. Ah I call it ah mind mining. 37:08.60 mikebledsoe A. 37:09.20 Max Shank Like you're a minor with like a little pickaxe so you help people ah mind their minds and the reality is ah hunger is the motivator hunger pain desire all synonyms ambition same thing I didn't even really consider the fact. That I named my gym ambition athletics which is basically a synonym for desire athletics and is just so funny like thinking back into it and it is the desire to achieve something and you need to experience some sort of pain. With the status quo even if it seems like very love-based like I want to I I Love the I Love Children. So I Want to save the children. It's like yeah you want you feel pain right now that they are suffering. Basically so everything relates back. To whether or not the pain to prospect ratio prospect being like what you predict the outcome will be is sufficient of a catalyst for your action. That's true for basically everything. 38:17.60 mikebledsoe Yeah, yeah I agree with that Always always calculating the um yeah tote. 38:28.48 Max Shank Um, even unconsciously. 38:34.79 mikebledsoe Probably mostly unconsciously. 38:36.90 Max Shank Like oh I'm I'm uncomfortable. So I'm going to eat a donut. It's worth it. It's it's only 10 feet away that's 10 steps eat a donut that's well worth it. But the. 38:40.86 mikebledsoe Exactly yeah. Yeah I don't I don't get this much anymore. But I've had people I'd be somewhere and they're like you want to eat this food and we go now and then it's usually somebody overweight who goes he goes. Oh you're you're 1 of those people that punish yourself with. 38:59.14 Max Shank Yeah. 39:09.58 mikebledsoe I'm like I go no I just I realized that if I eat this in an hour I'm gonna feel like shit and if I eat this repeatedly I'm gonna just my whole body's gonna feel like shit not in the five minutes while I'm eating it. But. Every other moment after that's worse so like it's just and it's funny. How like I just remember people trying to guilt me into joining them and making poor decisions that way. Yeah, yeah. 39:41.60 Max Shank It's like drinking. It's like drinking drinking alcohol. The trick though is we. 39:46.35 mikebledsoe Just have a beard just relax. 39:49.61 Max Shank I Remember when I was in my early twenty s we used to show how tough we were by having a little competition to see who could drink the most poison. 39:59.38 mikebledsoe Yeah, yeah, yeah, you too? Yeah, but. 40:02.97 Max Shank Ah, oh yeah, I was the toughest guy there was and then I was vomiting in the gutter where I then passed out So I mean have you ever like I think isn't there like a euphemism for you know my life was in the gutter I hit like rock. I've literally like woken up in a gutter before that's not a proud moment but the problem is yeah that means yeah I have good friends with you at least that's silver Lining. That's good. 40:23.99 mikebledsoe No, no yeah I've I've been peeled off the sidewalk and carried home. Yeah I did I did they didn't leave me behind. 40:38.94 Max Shank I would just wander off. Ah, um, the problem that most people have though is not only is there estimate of the effort required ah sort of fallacious and driven. By the law of least action which is we always want to preserve energy. But we also have no clue as to what all the variables are you know algebra and math is usually very clean like 2 x equals y plus four. You know, even that is like fairly cut and dry. But when you start thinking about all of the variables involved with whether you decide to exercise in the morning and tackle a writing project for the next sixty days. There are so many variables that you can't imagine. Another example is. Ah, investing like how do you choose what company to invest into and you know 1 of my absolutely closest friends for a really long time is really, he's like so sharp and we talk about investing and you know i. Kind of like to ah go with it and I talk about the ah fundamentals because that's all I know about businesses I don't study ah like business numbers and sales and all that stuff I just think about what? ah. Value is being provided essentially and I think about like the human aspect of it but in order to look through. Let's say even a thousand companies and pick your favorite 10 is so crazy. Because there are so many variables that you're not aware of so you take that level of complexity and you apply it to your own life. The difference in the like probability of how your day will go of starting with. You you know thirty minutes of exercise or thirty minutes of tiktok is pretty dramatic but you can't possibly know what you're going to experience in both of those situations right? So the variables get way too complicated to have. Ah. 42:59.75 mikebledsoe Yeah. 43:06.86 Max Shank Perfect prediction so you can't expect to be perfectly ready and that's why you know I I like ah Perfectionism is a sophisticated form of procrastination and so you'll. You'll try to get all the variables lined up but just the understanding that nobody ever gets all the variables lined up and usually the people who do the most things are the ones who go way before they're Ready. It's like they used to frustrate me a lot because. 43:40.16 mikebledsoe M. 43:45.15 Max Shank Ah, used to have you ever been envious. Anyone anyone out there. Envy is is really hard to not to not be envious, especially when you're young and you fancy yourself smart and you see. 43:50.58 mikebledsoe Ah, oh yeah. 44:04.50 Max Shank Very very successful. Successful people who you recognize as very very dumb at what they're doing and it's not a personal attack. It's just Wow people are are buying this line of B S. Are you kidding me like this is a. How is this guy so popular like and and it's because they just go go go way before they're ready and so there's ah, there's a balance there with the the craftsmanship of. 44:22.90 mikebledsoe Yeah. 44:41.20 Max Shank Refining that skill and there's also that advantage to being a little too ignorant to know that you're not ready and just going anyway. So finding finding that good balance is. 44:53.96 mikebledsoe Yeah. 45:00.10 Max Shank Is quite helpful and a lot of the stuff that I've done actually I went before before it was ready and it worked out really well. 45:08.44 mikebledsoe Yeah, yeah, I think that's 1 of the things that have helped me achieve the amount of success I have is I I was a little delusional when I was younger about how good I was gonna be at something i. Just didn't think about all the potential variables I Just go oh I had like this this faith that I would figure it out like oh yeah, I know what I'm doing and then I get into it and I realized that there was a million things I had no idea about that I now have to figure Out. Um. So I think a little bit of delusion early on was helpful that delusion is faded I now know that I don't know a bunch of shit. But 1 thing I've learned is that I have the ability to jump into a project and I'll figure it out I don't I don't care what it is. 46:01.87 Max Shank Will you need that faith. 46:03.53 mikebledsoe So as long as I want it if I want it I go you know what? I'll figure it out I mean my whole thing is is I will figure it out or I won't either way I've got to try and if I don't then I'll just move on to something else because there's the the micro in the macro. 46:15.95 Max Shank Um, right. 46:22.10 Max Shank Um, yeah. 46:23.47 mikebledsoe Like oh I want to go up this 1 thing I go after I go Wow The cost of reaching that goal is actually not worth it to me anymore now that I'm now that I'm aware of all the variables and like you know what? I'm okay to walk away from this because I actually desire something else more that I'm willing to to sacrifice. Right now in order to get there. So It's ah that's really been beneficial for me and I do see a lot of people get caught up in that this like fear of they talk about fear of failure and there's a fear that ah they're not gonna get not get it right? I agree and that's. 46:58.37 Max Shank It's fear of shame. 47:02.63 mikebledsoe That's actually that was ah my biggest fear when I started in my business was I didn't want to look like I tried hard and then like like I either had to act like in the beginning I act like I I didn't care ah because if it didn't go well and I. 47:05.36 Max Shank Um, yeah. 47:22.50 mikebledsoe And I looked like I didn't care. It didn't mean anything about me. But if I yeah but if I try hard and I fail that means I'm dumb you know and and and for me like my my big 1 of my biggest fears was like being seen as as. 47:25.70 Max Shank Isn't that funny totally or bad. Yeah. 47:41.67 mikebledsoe Dumb because I deep downwn believe that I believe that I was dumb when I was a kid and so I had to overcome that so I had to prove to the world that I that I was smart I was trying to prove to myself that I could be smart and but yeah, 1 of my biggest fears was was looking dumb. 47:41.69 Max Shank Um, same. 47:57.56 Max Shank I feel that 1 48:00.78 mikebledsoe And I didn't want to look like I tried hard. Um, but even then like you know, ah raising my prices in my gym to be at ah at the appropriate price was very difficult because I was afraid of what. People who I was going to charge that amount of money to were going to think of me for charging that I didn't want to be seen as greedy so I didn't want to be seen as dumb I didn't want to be seen as greedy. It's Funny. He's like oh I don't want to fail but I'm also don't want to be seen as a greedy person. 48:22.66 Max Shank Right. 48:36.25 mikebledsoe And then there's this box of like limitation around success that gets they gets built. It's like okay well I don't want to be seeing this greedy I don't want to fail and look dumb. It's like Wow What do you get? where do you go from there you there's very little to go from there. 48:38.98 Max Shank Um, yeah. 48:52.40 Max Shank There's no wiggle room whatsoever. 48:54.24 mikebledsoe Yeah, and so there's these conditions that we put on our in place because of yeah that that perceived shame that people will shame us and then we'll feel guilty and ah yeah, yeah. 49:06.56 Max Shank You'll feel less. You'll feel less than and it goes back to that same eat. It goes back to that same like your your story is tarnished it always comes back to that judgment shame and shame I've heard is the single most. 49:11.63 mikebledsoe Loss. 49:15.65 mikebledsoe Um, yeah. 49:24.18 Max Shank Ah, powerful visceral emotion. There is which you would imagine that our evolution would select for that based on our dependence of cooperating together in groups you touched on something though which is like. 49:35.96 mikebledsoe Right? right? definitely. 49:43.68 Max Shank You just had to believe you just had to have faith that it would work and you need that because there's no guarantee that anything will work. You know, even someone? Um I I Really like to have all my ducks in a row. Ah before I start something. Try to limit the risk as much as possible but you can't take any action without having faith and I'm sure that's part of the reason that religion has sprouted so much is in order to have that. Forward thinking of like this is what the future could hold and understand that there are so many possibilities it can be an advantage to have faith that everything will go well or or perhaps that a um, a deity of some kind. 50:34.70 mikebledsoe Ah. 50:41.56 Max Shank Has ah a grander plan where it does all work out. Well I mean that's that's ah, quite an interesting way of assuaging those fears. 50:50.70 mikebledsoe Well, ah, human, they they did a study and humans generally think that the future will be better than the present and that's that's another challenge to investing either. You know in. And exercise in health or investing money in something is because people believe that they're gonna make more money in the future. They're gonna they believe they generally believe things would just be Better. There's an um overall optimistic thing going on. Not for everybody. But for. Vast majority of people. They they do think things that they believe that things progress to be better in the future and which could be true I think it generally is true. But when yeah, it's very relative and. 51:41.72 Max Shank Bet Better is super relative right. 51:46.49 mikebledsoe People Um, a lot of times because they believe things are going to get better. No matter what they don't take action. They don't do what it takes for things to be better, especially and is where religion can get funny a lot of times because. 51:58.26 Max Shank Right. 52:05.00 mikebledsoe There's something outside of themselves that is going to save them. There's something outside of themselves that's going to make it better and a ah lot of people I think get caught up in that belief structure and then just fall into inaction. 52:20.52 Max Shank A. 52:21.86 mikebledsoe Or don't see the role that they're going to play in creating that future. 52:25.61 Max Shank Yeah, sometimes I get caught in exactly the opposite which is I predict all of the horrible stuff I predict based on ah all of the horrible stuff I've been made aware of and I just assume that ah me doing. 52:30.96 mikebledsoe And he. 52:44.22 Max Shank Anything will be like trying to empty the ocean with a teaspoon and it won't really make a difference Anyway, I'm like hey everybody it's ah time for your morning Mobility Exercises Meanwhile there's like you know all kinds of lobbying going on and all of the you know. 52:49.39 mikebledsoe Ah, yeah. 53:03.40 Max Shank Whatever you know I don't want to get too far down that road. But I think ah safe to say that we do a lot of stuff exactly the worst way possible in our current setup of organizing large groups of people so thinking that what you do will have some sort of. Benefit that is meaningful to you so that belief that faith has to um, be the catalyst for any action and that's that pain to prospect ratio. 53:33.10 mikebledsoe Yeah I feel good with this anything else. You want to add. 53:39.82 Max Shank Ah, so we talked about ah goals and fears primarily and then we talked a little bit about sticks and stones which was pretty fun in the beginning I think with regard to fear. It's important to understand that it's just your attached to your story and all of the um, the most wise stuff that I've read from throughout the Millennia of people trying to feel more at peace in their. Selves and hearts is about ah connection without attachment which is such a trite thing to say it seems so simple right? But it's actually extremely difficult to connect with everything around you without getting too attached and latched onto it. And so fear man we didn't even talk about ah like feeling physically safe and you know like having ah some food and some marshall capabilities. But yeah, if you can accept. The impermanence of your story. You won't be enslaved by the fear of tarnishing that story like the shame or the failures I mean I really like the phrase The only failure is to not try at all. 55:12.41 mikebledsoe You know? ah. 55:15.40 Max Shank Because you can I think you probably would agree that part of your success just like for mine is just that I simply tried lots of things and I you don't know which ones are going to work and I Also. Didn't get stuck in the sunk cost fallacy where you keep pouring more energy into something just because you've already poured a lot into it. You know it's It's good. You you stop doing that thing and you try something else. So It's good to try lots of things because you don't know just like investing. 55:38.78 mikebledsoe Yeah, yeah. 55:50.38 Max Shank Ah, Diversification. You don't know which 1 Ne's going to be awesome. But if you have 10 that have a really good chance of being awesome then hey that's pretty good I mean I'm not I can't predict the future. So yeah, there's that which is. You have to accept the impermanence of the story and then everything else is sort of a domino effect after that and. 56:13.89 mikebledsoe I Like the impermanence of this story because after you die your story is I mean it. It contributes to the cultural story and gets passed down anceually. But. 56:26.26 Max Shank Right. 56:31.15 mikebledsoe No stories are ever told accurately. So just the the knowledge the knowledge that your story is going to be skewed no matter what? ah to me brings a lot of levity because I know that other people are going to write my story about me. 56:33.33 Max Shank Now. 56:50.43 mikebledsoe From their perspective. However, they want It's none of my none of my business really and once I stop making my business and how other people are gonna interpret my story. The easier got to just live out my own life The way I want to live it and yeah like this weekend I had my. 56:51.63 Max Shank Um, right? yeah. 57:09.88 mikebledsoe My birthday my birthday party and people were telling me all sorts of amazing things about me but that's not even the story I would tell about myself and and so it's It's a good demonstration of yeah that I think that this. 57:18.44 Max Shank Yeah, of course, not. 57:29.61 mikebledsoe The story we're telling about ourselves is is greater than what we think other people might tell a story about us. 57:37.92 Max Shank Yeah, and subconsciously your self-image is going to guide your behaviors. Maybe even more than you're conscious. So if like subconsciously you think you're dumb and lazy. No amount of like trying to grit through it is actually going to. 57:56.47 mikebledsoe Your yeah your behaviors may change it create a difference in your life. But that story is going to remain the same. 57:56.84 Max Shank Help you do that So you have to. 58:03.14 Max Shank Right? So that's why I think at least for me what makes the um, most sense is to not be too attached to any story because I think you you mostly just are what you do and the more attached I am to a certain thing. The. 58:12.34 mikebledsoe On there. 58:22.31 Max Shank The less the flow of energy is through me as like a conduit and so with regard to fear you are accepting your physical death and your the death of your story and and also the fact that your story could be. 58:24.43 mikebledsoe Move. Ah. 58:41.11 Max Shank Completely tarnished I mean Oedipus did a lot of great things. But no 1 remembers What those things are because he killed his dad and fucked his mom and that's all we know about oedipus right. So with like if you let go of the story thing then you won't fear Shame. You won't fear Judgment. It's like a top-down type of effect if you accept the impermanence and then with regard to goals. It allows you to seek goals outside of your um, extrinsic judgment of those things like a lot of people become doctors and lawyers not because they want to. Be a doctor or a lawyer just because it's ah it's an esteemed position. It's a position of power and wealth. They don't really want that they just want to be seen as Good. So if you can get your self out of the way you'll be able to choose a goal. 59:41.50 mikebledsoe Right. 59:46.57 mikebledsoe Yeah. 59:57.46 Max Shank That is more conducive to what you really feel and I may have even mentioned this in a show before I'm sure I have but ah simon sinek has his it starts with why and that's good and james clear has his habit formation about. Starts with who like you choose your identity and then everything comes from there which is also good. It's kind of in line with the psycho cybernetics idea and then I just think about what I would want to have done if I could get no credit. If I had to be totally anonymous and that seems to be the truest ah goals that I have it takes into consideration. What my strengths and weaknesses are and it takes the um it takes the ego kind of out of the. Out of the equation a little bit and it helps me get more aligned to what I actually think is important versus what is just another ah power play like ah people will people will love me more and then my story will be vast and then I will have a. 01:01:04.15 mikebledsoe Sir. 01:01:13.27 Max Shank Gigantic tombstone. No I'll have a mausoleum that's when the ego goes beyond your physical life like the last thing I fucking want is gigantic mausoleum. It's so ridiculous. Um, hey I'm you know, no offense to the people with. 01:01:32.17 mikebledsoe Mauselums. 01:01:32.39 Max Shank Mausoleums and stuff like that. It's just it's just not for me. Ah, So there's the relating to fears relating to goals or perhaps a mission very valuable to get other people who feel the same way and then the last thing is just your. Physical safety which is your health your defensive power and um financial health to I would say you have like safety nets. It's like a health physical health physical mental Health Safety net. Ah, social safety net and then financial safety net and. 01:02:13.98 mikebledsoe Was the 3 categories of personal development is health wealth and relationships was it. Those are that yeah those are the 3 things that people need to master in order to to live a good life. 01:02:22.27 Max Shank That's right, pretty much everything is those. 01:02:33.50 mikebledsoe You know I think what we call a good life in this in our current society and those are 3 topics that are not taught in our education system. 01:02:34.18 Max Shank Oh. 01:02:41.25 Max Shank Yeah, the only important things are not taught that's kind of relate. that's that's 1 of the things that makes me feel like I'm trying to empty the ocean with a teaspoon sometimes is I'm like man 12 years we don't even teach the important stuff. It's out of control. But yeah, you're right. 01:02:50.51 mikebledsoe Yeah, yeah, yeah. 01:03:01.13 Max Shank You're right? It's those 3 things and combine that with the acceptance of the impermanence and you'll probably live your fullest life I know like live your best life is like a ah hilarious Hashtag ah, but yeah. But I think that's pretty good. Pretty good way to be there's there's no question reality about having financial. Well-being physical. Well-being and then social wellbeing. 01:03:21.78 mikebledsoe I like it. Yeah. 01:03:37.78 Max Shank I mean I feel super fortunate that over the past. However long this whole ah business has been going on that I've had close friends and um, plenty of Reserve capital and I live in a place where there's lots of sunshine and I. Went into it very physically healthy and if you're missing 1 or all of those you're going to have a bad time. 01:04:06.15 mikebledsoe Ah, yeah, yeah, yeah, this ah this show to me I'm gonna have my students listen to it because this has ah been packed with a lot of really useful Information. So The the 1 thing I Want to remind everybody is is. Thing that's made the biggest difference for me is learning to be to love and accept those feelings which I tend to avoid and from there a lot of other wisdom has come online for me and ways to live just because of that 1 1 thing That's ah once you get to that point it opens up channels of information which you didn't have access to before. 01:04:56.97 Max Shank That's so good because it also opens the door to being compassionate for other people and it also it also closes the door of being envious of other people because you don't know what's going on on the inside right. 01:05:00.49 mikebledsoe It does. 01:05:07.56 mikebledsoe In here. 01:05:11.29 Max Shank We we like to envy like Cherry we like to do cherry pick envy we we like to envy the rock's body you know dwayne the rock johnson that guy but we don't envy like his. 01:05:22.97 mikebledsoe Yeah. 01:05:29.14 Max Shank Daily routine. Probably we don't envy the fact that I mean who knows what his home life was like but yeah I think if you can love and accept yourself and then still um, you know, not. 01:05:29.30 mikebledsoe No. 01:05:43.23 Max Shank Not feel shame for feeling those emotions but just get curious about them like you sagely pointed out earlier. It really will open the door for a a love-based change of self-image. Rather than a shame-based change of self-image and like I said it also makes you more compassionate and less Envious. So I think y'all I would like to re-listen to this 1 a couple times myself because a lot of things that you and I just say in the flow. Ah, are it makes me want to start jotting down notes and I think. 01:06:21.10 mikebledsoe Ah, yeah, I'm um like I added a couple things that I need to write about from this conversation. 01:06:27.00 Max Shank Um, well make sure you share those with me I was thinking that part of the reason these conversations are going so well. What is this the ninth episode or something I think ah. 01:06:36.71 mikebledsoe Number nine. Yeah. 01:06:42.86 Max Shank Ah, 1 of the reason it goes so well is you and I have zero consideration for who said it. We only care that it gets said so we're trying to make the like the result of it. Good. And like I don't care if it was like you said the thing or I said the thing so it's a very um, unencumbered melding of. The experiences that we've had which are unique and then also the experiences we've been exposed to secondhand which is like the reading and the learning from others and I think that's that's what makes a body of work. Great is when you get the. 01:07:32.20 mikebledsoe Agreed agreed well brother where can people find you he that he forgot he forgot. 01:07:32.33 Max Shank Junk out of the way. Yeah man. 01:07:42.50 Max Shank Maxshank Dot Com at Ma shank. Well I was just thinking. Yeah I I was just thinking I'm actually pretty hard to find like physically but on the internet I'm the easiest to find ever if you Google me I'm all over the place. 01:07:47.54 mikebledsoe Air. 01:07:54.17 mikebledsoe Yeah, yeah, same ah hit up at mike blood. So mike underscore bloods on Instagram and the strongcoach dot com if you're a coach and want to do some cool shit all right? Thanks for joining us today. 01:08:12.32 Max Shank Love you brother take care. 01:08:12.97 mikebledsoe And you max Love you.

The Gravel Ride.  A cycling podcast
In the Dirt: Question and Answer Part 2

The Gravel Ride. A cycling podcast

Play Episode Listen Later Oct 19, 2021 33:59


Part two of our first Q and A episode. Randall and Craig tackle questions submitted via The Ridership community. Support the Podcast Join The Ridership Episode Sponsor: Athletic Greens Automated Transcription (please excuse the typos): 00:00:00] Craig Dalton: Hello and welcome to in the dirt from the gravel ride podcast. I'm your host. Craig dalton i'll be joined shortly by my co-host randall jacobs. [00:00:12] Today's episode is part two of our Q and a episode series. Go back in your feed, a couple episodes to find part one. You can certainly jump right into this episode as we're going question by question. And they don't necessarily. Have relation to one another but if you're interested in part one either after the fact or before you listened to this episode go ahead and jump back and listen to that episode. [00:00:36] Today's episode is brought to you by our friends at athletic greens. The health and wellness company that makes comprehensive daily nutrition really really simple. [00:00:44] A G one by athletic greens is a category leading superfood product, bringing comprehensive and convenient daily nutrition to everyone. Keeping up with the research and knowing what to do and taking a bunch of pills and capsules is hard on the stomach and hard to keep up with  [00:00:59] To help each one of us be at our best. They simplify the path to better nutrition by giving you the one thing with all the best things.  [00:01:06] One tasty scoop of ag. One contained 75 vitamins minerals and whole food sourced ingredients including a multivitamin multimineral probiotic green superfood blend  [00:01:17] And more in one convenient daily serving. The special blend of high quality bioavailable ingredients and a scoop of ag. work together to fill the nutritional gaps near diet. Support energy and focus. Aiden got health and digestion and support a healthy immune system. Effectively replacing multiple products or pills in one healthy delicious drink. [00:01:38] I think by now, you've probably heard my personal jam. I like to take athletic greens. First thing in the morning is to get a jumpstart on my hydration. As well as my nutritional needs. And i'm big ride days if i'm feeling super depleted i'll come home and have a second glass so on a saturday or sunday i might double up my servings  [00:01:58] If you're open to giving athletics greens, a try, simply visit athletic greens.com/the gravel ride.  [00:02:05] Athletic greens has agreed to give a free one year supply of vitamin D and five free travel packs to any gravel ride podcast listener. So be sure to visit athletic greens.com/the gravel ride. To give it a try today. With that said let's jump into part two of the q and a episode with randall [00:02:26] Craig: Next question was on optimizing the adjustment and float intention on SPD pedals. I don't think there's much we can add there cause it's a little bit of trial and error. In my opinion. I don't know about the float. I don't even know if mine has like float adjustment. For me it seems like it's just the tension. So I, how hard or easy it is to get in and out. And that's been something maybe I've amped up over time as I become more confident, but certainly starting them out with them. Fairly easy to disengage is perfectly acceptable if you're not comfortable with Clifton riding.  [00:02:57] Randall: Yeah. In terms of tension, I would definitely start with a looser engagement and then tighten it down as you get more confident, Especially when you're first starting out. And what else? Patrick and I actually talked about this in the bike fit episode. Hey recommending shifting the cleats back. So if you're running mountain style shoes, which the gravel bike probably should be if you can run them in the back, the bolts to the back then sliding the cleat. Pretty much all the way to the back. Now if that doesn't feel right, you can always move it forward a little bit, but whereas this new real problem with going too far back there can be issues with going too far forward in terms of biomechanics and so on. And in terms of the float, you want to be in the middle of the float and you never want to be in a position where the you're you're not able to peddle in a natural motion where you're using the cleat positioning to restrict your motion. That is a a good way to end up with an injury. So definitely don't do that. I generally will start with the cleats. In a position where it's restricting my inward motion so that my heel can't hit the crank arm. And then I'll peddle from there and see am I in the middle, middle of the float? Am I in my restricted any part of the pedal stroke? And if not, then that's a good starting point. But to really get this right again it is hard to do this on your own. It's hard to see knee tracking. In souls or thing you want to invest in, in order to help align the full stack from hip to knee through the ankle. And this is where listen to the bike, fit 1 0 1 episode and consider working with a bike fitter.  [00:04:30] Craig: I was just going to say the same thing. It's like one of those things like, oh, bike fit, you don't necessarily go to clique adjustment, but so often when I've observed it, cleat adjustment happens in a bike fit.  [00:04:41] Randall: And it doesn't happen first, right? Everything else has to be right first. So if your saddle's too low and your arches are collapsing and things like that, you're already starting with things out of alignment and are going to have some trouble, but at least the advice that, that I just gave will prevent the worst issues. But again, go get a bike fit.  [00:05:01] Craig: Yep. [00:05:02] The next [00:05:02] question. Yeah, The next question. [00:05:05] was about what's the best technique for using a dropper post? How does this help with the physics of the ride?  [00:05:14] Randall: I'll let you go first. I certainly have an opinion on this one.  [00:05:17] Craig: This is a dangerous one for us. The listener, the avid listener knows we can go into a deep dropper post where I'm whole, but let's try to offer some quick advice. One of the things I like to remind people about with respect to drop her posts is that it's not just a, all the way up or all the way down product. You've got the full spectrum of range, which means you should use it frequently. Obviously when you're in heavy tactical descents with steep, dicentric, you're going to slam it.  [00:05:45] But I quite frequently lower it just a centimeter to just give myself a little bit more room on terrain. Maybe it's a road descent or something that I'm super confident on, but it gives me a little bit more margin for error. And as I'm feeling maybe more nervous about the speed. I'll go down even further just to give myself again a bigger range of just a bigger margin of error. So practice, and no, there's no right or wrong, use it frequently and you'll figure out what feels best for you.  [00:06:15] Randall: You've seen my technique with the dropper. I'm a bit more extreme. So for me, I use the dropper all the time. I have it down all the way on a high-speed road descent, and I use it to allow me to, move my mass around on the bike in a way where, if I want the front end to be more planted, I can put more mass on the bars, but then I can shift my weight down and back over the rear axle to lighten up the front end for say, traversing, really rough terrain. Provides that distance between the bike and the body where your arms and legs can act as suspension. Your front wheel is rolling in sailing. Your rear is doing more of your speed control. And in this way, it really radically. Improves the capability of the bike, not just off-road, but I would argue on road as well. I descend much faster because I know I can grab a handful of both brakes and not be pitching over the handlebars. So for me, even on the road, I'm dropping it all the way in a lot of situations.  [00:07:08] Just because I like to go that much faster and it gives me that margin of safety.  [00:07:12] Craig: All makes sense. Next off, we're going to an area work. Gosh, Randall I almost think we need an entirely new category in the ridership forum just about tires. What do you think?  [00:07:25] Randall: We've been asked for this for a while. By the time this episode airs, if we don't have a channel in there, somebody yell at us in the forum, we'll get that up.  [00:07:35] Craig: The first question comes again from Tom boss, from orange county unicorn tires, lightweight, puncture resistance, fast rolling with lots of grip. What comes closest for you?  [00:07:45] Randall: I'm not getting in the weeds on this one. I defer to the hive-mind and the ridership on this. I can tell you what I ride. But I'm gonna make no claims about it being the optimal.  [00:07:56] Craig: Yeah, do. What are you writing in these days?  [00:07:58] Randall: so currently I'm writing just a WTB Sendero upfront and a venture in the rear. And these aren't especially fancy casings. They're not the most efficient tire. But they're pretty robust and they have great grip and I like the mullet setup. I'm a big fan of going with something NABI or upfront and like a file tread or even a semi slick, depending on your terrain in the back.  [00:08:20] And yeah, that's the way that I go. We actually just brought in some maxes, Ramblers and receptors. So we go a rambler small knob front and a receptor in the back. And I like the six 50 by 47 size. There are situations where I wish I could have a little bit more volume, other situations where I wish I had a little bit more efficiency, which tells me that I'm right in the middle of the range for most of the writing that I do.  [00:08:40] Craig: Yeah. For me. And first off, full disclosure to everybody, I'm a Panorai sir, brand ambassador. So I want to put that out there. The gravel king S K was a tire that I got on my first proper gravel bike. And I just fell in love with it. Then I left for many years and went on to more of a setup that you had rocking the Sandero up front.  [00:09:01] Thinking I was, riding more challenging terrain and could appreciate the knobs, which I did.  [00:09:06] But recently I've gone back to the gravel king as Kay. And I do find it to be a wonderful all around tire because I feel super fast on the road and it does everything that I needed to do in most of the situations that I get into.  [00:09:21] Randall: Yeah, sounds about right. And then there's always, if you're, if you had a really long ride out to the trail you could always, bring the pressure up a smidge on the way out there and then give it a little at the the Trailhead.  [00:09:34] Craig: Yeah. [00:09:34] And again, it obviously comes down to where you are and one thing I'll just note really quickly, and we've talked about it before is Riding fully select tires at a fat with has been remarkable to me how performance they can be. Off-road you think you need knobs, then all of a sudden you realize where you do need them, but actually if you change your riding style a little bit if you've got a fat rubber tire on there, you can go and do a lot of things. [00:09:59] Randall: Yeah, the dropper helps a lot with that. In terms of just being able to be more nuanced with your body English as you going over stuff. But yeah, I run 700 by 30 tubeless tires and I'll go out on hard road drives and then I'll pass it on to see a trail and be like, oh, what's over there, I must find out now and then to see. Go and do a little bit of adventuring. And you gotta pick, you gotta pick your lines. You gotta be careful not to hit anything, square, a square edge. That's gonna, bang up against your rim. But if you're if your pressure is high enough and you're gentle enough with your writing, you can do a remarkable amount. Most of the stuff that we've written in Marine together up written on slicks.  [00:10:36] At one point. Yeah. [00:10:38] not saying it's a good idea, but it's doable.  [00:10:41] Craig: True. And you enjoyed other parts of the ride and leaned into other parts of the ride, presumably more because that's, what the bike was oriented around on that particular day. And maybe you needed to nurse your way down Blazedale Ridge or something, but you got through it.  [00:10:55] Randall: Yeah, and it's definitely more of an uphill thing than a downhill thing.  [00:11:00] Craig: Yeah. [00:11:00] Randall: go uphill on dirt and then downhill on, on road, but okay. The, we went on a proper tangent there.  [00:11:07] Craig: Yeah, sorry. next?  [00:11:08] one. Next question is from Josh, from east Texas. It's around suppleness. Suppleness in tires is desired by riders. So how do I choose a simple tire without having to buy it and write it with no published measure of scale of suppleness on a given tire from the manufacturer we are left with only this tire field strop sample is TPI and indication.  [00:11:30] Why don't manufacturers provide consumers with this information?  [00:11:33] Randall: So I'm going to volunteer Ben Z and Marcus G in the forum as to people who seem to have written. Every tire I've ever heard of. And some that I haven't. And there are others in there that have as well. But yeah, I think this is a matter of finding out what other people like and kindly asking their opinion and experiences with it.  [00:11:52] Craig: Exactly. I think that's a good recommendation.  [00:11:55] Next question is from Tom Henkel and it's around tire pressure. He acknowledges that he tends to ride harder pressures than a lot of people seem to recommend, but he's also dented REMS and had to wrangle the, straighten them out enough to complete a ride. So he's nervous about bottoming out. How do you know how low is too low? Given the weight of the rider and width of the tire? Also, how does this vary by terrain type?  [00:12:17] Randall: The indication of how low is too low is really. He's denting his rims. And pinch flatting as well you can have two riders of the same weight on the same tires at the same pressure on the same terrain, one we'll be a little bit better at picking lines or at shifting weight around. And we'll be able to push the limits a little bit more. But if you're ponderous and steamrolling through things, then you might need to run higher pressures in order not to bang the rims. Now, if you're not already running the highest volume tires that will fit in your frame, start there for sure. And if you are, and you don't want to have to replace your bike, tire inserts, which is something that we haven't really talked about much. And is in its early days in gravel, but it's increasingly popular in mountain bike. And I'll be getting a set of these to try out. Isaac S in the forum loves his and he rides hard. He used to ride his gravel bike like a full-on mountain bike, and even cracked a rim once, and after he put in inserts he never had any trouble and he was actually pushing his pressures even lower. So those would be the recommendations. I have go biggest volume. You can and get some tire inserts.  [00:13:25] Craig: Yeah, that makes sense. [00:13:26] It's all trial and error and I am eager as, as well as the listener, I imagined to hear what you think of tire inserts. Cause I do think It's yet another interesting part of the equation that some riders may be able to play around with successfully.  [00:13:40] Randall: Yeah, it has the same effect as adding a little bit of suspension. If you can drop the pressure that much lower and have a two tiered suspension effect where you have the travel of the lower pressure tire, and then right before it bottoms out on the rim, you have this protective layer. So yeah, I think it makes a ton of sense, conceptually. So I'm excited to try it.  [00:13:58] Craig: Yeah, interesting stuff.  [00:14:00] Next question is another one from Kim brown. How do you go around choosing the right tire for the ride?  [00:14:05] I guess I make more like quarterly or seasonal decisions around this and live with it. I certainly have brought my beef feed set up bike two places in the middle of the country that didn't require such an aggressive setup. But it is what it is like I, I'm not super concerned but I imagine if you have the wherewithal and interest you can dig in and find the right tire for every single outing.  [00:14:32] Randall: Yeah. And you definitely again see people who seem to do that. And that's great. For me. I have a bicycle company and I have two wheel sets and I leave the same tires on until they burn out. I'll even take the Sendero Nabil upfront and when it starts to wear a little bit too much, I'll just move it to the back and put on another Nabil upfront.  [00:14:49] I mostly rabid I got, and I got the two we'll set. So I have 700 by 32 blitz and a six 50 by 47 mullet set up. And it's really more of a choice of which wheel package I'm going to go with then. Swapping around tires and things like that, which is a more seasonal or annual decision.  [00:15:05] Craig: Yeah. [00:15:06] Yeah. Yeah. Same. [00:15:07] Next one is probably I could've sat in the maintenance section of this conversation, but how do I deal with a pinch flat or puncture or some other common issue in a tubeless tire?  [00:15:16] Randall: Punctures. Dynaplugs, bacon strips. Make sure you have a good amount of sealant in there. And have a spare tube as a backup, if all that fails. If you've got a pinch flat in a tubeless tire if it's on the sidewall, then you know, you do what you can to get home. Sometimes a plug will work, but if it's in the sidewall, you're probably going to want to replace that tire versus in the meat of the tread where the rubber is a lot thicker, a plug can last for the remaining life of the tire. And last thing would be, if you really have a problem and you have a tear in the sidewall, a boot or even just jam putting a dollar bill or something in there so it doesn't continue to spread, just so you can get home, and maybe running lower pressure so it doesn't blow out the sidewall.  [00:16:00] Craig: Yeah.  [00:16:02] If we assume the question came from someone who knows how to change a two-bed tire and has been through that experience, just a couple of other things I would highlight that may not be known unless you've had to go through it. If you are replacing a tubeless tire with an inner tube, you do need to remove the valve core.  [00:16:19] First. And you can expect that if you have ample sealant remaining in said tire. It's going to be a messy situation.  [00:16:27] Randall: Yeah. [00:16:28] Craig: I don't know what the right thing to do is if you leave the sealant in there, but it's going to be all over you. It's going to be all over the place. It's just something you have to deal with as you get that tire and get your tube in there and find your way home.  [00:16:41] Randall: Yeah, all the more reason to get plugs and just have plugs with you because oftentimes you can get by with those.  [00:16:48] Craig: Yeah. A hundred percent. The first time you plug a tire, it's like a Eureka moment and you just top off the tire and continue on your way. And when it goes beyond that, then you're a very sad. And you will have to deal with quite a mess.  [00:17:02] Randall: There's a picture that think Isaac in the forum shared where he had a hole plugged with eight different plugs in the sidewall and he kept riding it for a while apparently. So Bravo maybe change that casing a little bit sooner. So though.  [00:17:18] Craig: Related to tires, we're going to move into a section on wheels. And matthew Wakeman ask, what kind of situations would be worth considering three wheel sets versus just two for do most of it? Bikes.  [00:17:32] Randall: So my thinking is the first wheel set is probably a wide 700 that can take everything from road to gravel tires and then a even wider six 50, that's more focused on gravel and adventure riding. And then an even wider two Niner that would be your mountain bike setup now, then. Then, that's getting into two bikes. So you have two bikes, three wheel sets between them. If you're just with one bike for everything, then if you're racing or if you're constantly switching between very focused road experience to a fast, hard packed gravel experience to a rugged. Bike packing adventure sort of experience, then it would make sense to maybe have two, seven hundreds and 1 6 50 B. It really would be another 700 slotting in the middle. There.  [00:18:22] Craig: Yeah, for me, it's really around. Tire selection on those wheel sets and yes, it would be a luxury and a full disclosure. I do have three wheel sets in the garage and I'm splitting hairs literally. It's because I'm too lazy to change the tire. And I have the luxury of having the third wheel so that so I've got my sort of NABI. Fairly narrow 700 C off-road sat that will only take me a limited amount of places from where I live. I've got my one that I spend most of my time on which presently is six 50 by 43. And then I've got a 700 with a 30 road tire on it. [00:18:59] And it's more like Totally when I only had two wheel sets, it was all good. Just choose between road and mountain and don't worry too much about it.  [00:19:07] Randall: I don't even have three wheels. That's Craig. Bravo.  [00:19:10] Craig: Next question comes from Craig. Oh I'm curious on the difference between six 50 B and 700 C and confused about boosts standards, wheels, hubs, rotors and whether it's worth the investment to pursue or just stick with my current wheels. Ideally, I was interested in putting faster, thinner type tires on my 700 C wheels that came with the bike.  [00:19:29] For all their road rides and a second set of six 50 B fatter grippier types for off-road fun. I think we've talked a lot about six 50 B versus 700 C on other podcasts and also on this podcast today. But I was interested in this question around standards, as someone who has a mountain bike, I was aware of boosts standards.  [00:19:50] What is going on with that with respect to gravel bikes and do we see a path towards a boost standard for gravel bikes or are there specific design considerations that make that not likely. [00:20:03] Randall: So we have one it's called road boost and it seems to have been driven by the emergence of e-bikes as a major category. And what boost does is it increases the spacing upfront 10 millimeters in the back. I believe by six. And it allows the flanges and the hub to be space more widely apart, so that you have more of a bracing angle and more lateral strength. So the same amount of spokes gives you greater lateral stiffness and strength. So that's the benefit now, does it matter for, gravel bikes of, running up to say like a 2.2 tire or even a 2.4 without suspension. It's pretty minor gains.  [00:20:46] I do think that we're going to see a transition towards road boost, which is a one 12 by one 10 upfront and a 12 by 1 48 in the rear. There's, trade-offs one of them being a well for pure road bikes. It's going to be trivially, less Aero, there's always the arrow marketing story . And then two in the back to you end up potentially having to increase the Q factor. Of the cranks. So most people actually benefit from more Q factor than the super narrow ones that used to be common on road bikes so it's not really a problem for most riders, but it's just like another design constraint. There's trade-offs is, are you have to fit a lot of things in a tight package and that's the issue, but it's out there, you see a couple bikes with it. Especially E road bikes and gravel bikes. And I think over time, you'll see that transition, but don't consider it an upgrade that you need to swap your bike to get. It's not mean it's not a meaningful thing in that regard, and you can get most of the benefits by just doing asymmetric rims, which, that's why we and others do asymmetric rims to downs the spoke tensions and angles. [00:21:49] Craig: Gotcha. I'm going to slip a personal question in that I'd put in the forum. How often should I grease the threads of my through axles if I change wheels frequently?  [00:21:58] Randall: Often enough so that there's always grease on them and no dirt. And if you have any where on the threads you should be doing it more often and use a FIC. FIC Greece. But if you get any dirt in there, like if you drop your through axle or something like that, now you have basically a grinding compound. In the threads. So you want to clean that up. But yeah, that, as with any interface, it will wear over time. So Greece is your way of allowing that interface to last longer than the bike.  [00:22:26] Craig: Yeah, great. We've got a question from Alex, from Tifton, Georgia. What's happening in the gravel scene to involve youth.  [00:22:33] Randall: You seem to be taking out junior. Fairly often on whatever kids bike with whatever tires it's got on there. I think that counts. [00:22:41] Craig: Yeah, I just want to expose my son to riding off road. And so he's still on a 20 inch wheel bike, but I've put some monster, like two, one tires that I found on it's like a monster truck for him, which I think he enjoys. I think it's the key to bring the youth through mountain biking and discover gravel versus prematurely introducing drop our bikes.  [00:23:06] Randall: Yeah. I'm of the same mind. I've a niece that I take riding in the same way and it's just like she has a 20 inch wheels kid's bike. And I just take her out on the dirt and get her comfortable riding on those surfaces and pushing her comfort zone to try new things. But then also just instilling this deep love of the adventure experience, which for me what we're calling gravel is really all about. It's like going and exploring the area where you live from an entirely different angle than you would get in a car or on foot.  [00:23:36] Craig: Yeah. Agreed.  [00:23:37] Randall: And then of course NICA. We have some coaches in the listenership. Then the new England youth cycling association, actually Patrick in Lee likes bikes are doing a skills clinic with them in October.  [00:23:48] So you have that. And then urban off-road bike parks. Lotta our kids in the city don't have access to trails. And so just providing that access, I think is critical. And there's an example of a McLaren bike park in San Francisco. It's in a part of the city that is pretty far from the bridge and pretty far from the Santa Cruz mountains. And so this would be it, and there is plans potentially to expand that. And building more urban bike parks I think is a big part of that as well.  [00:24:20] Craig: Yeah, for sure. And you bring a huge skill gain to gravel if you come from the mountain bike side. [00:24:27] Randall: Yeah. Yeah. And starting with a hard tail or even a rigid flat bar bike is a great way to go.  [00:24:33] Craig: A hundred percent. Next question comes from Alex in Columbia, Missouri. And it's a question about frame design. With the growing market of gravel. Where, when does the Aero slash race versus endurance market become two separate markets? Also how far do you think it'll go narrower tubing, et cetera. There seems to be a split already forming with Aero features being added to gravel bikes.  [00:24:57] Randall: I have strong opinions here, so I'm going to let you go first.  [00:25:00] Craig: Yeah. I think the brands are already splitting hairs with these categories as it is. And part of it is positioning vis-a-vis other competitive brands. Part of it is just the designer's vision for what this bike is intended to do. And those lines are blurry and murky and are going to come down to individual brand managers to execute on. So I think it's already a total disaster.  [00:25:27] Randall: I think most Aero claims, especially in gravel are entirely bunk. And it's marketing. And I'll give you an example. So on a road bike, a designer can control almost all of the parameters except for the rider, which ironically is the biggest one more than 80% of the aerodynamic profile, the tire with being a big one, right? So you can have your rim with, and your rim depth matched to the width of the tire. You can have the down tube optimized for that tire to end up really close to the front leading edge of that down tube and the down tube, it can be really narrow. So you have a smooth transition between, rim to tire, to frame in a way that minimizes turbulence. So with a road bike, it's more of a controlled system. And even then the gains are very marginal. And if you look at the. What marketers are usually claiming. If you add up all the Watts that you saved, you'd be traveling at a hundred miles an hour on all the different components you can buy. On gravel, it's worse because you, you have really wide tires. And so you'll have a deep section rim. With a big old tire on it and the tire is much wider than the rim. You're already having detachment of airflow as soon as it comes off that tire. There's a rule which folks can look up the rule of a hundred, 5%, which says that as long as the rim is a hundred, 5%, the width of the tire, then you can generally get good attach flow over the rim, regardless of that rims shape with certain shapes being marginally better. But that one oh 5% rule being more important. But if you have a big old tire on an arrow rim, all that at error rim is doing is adding weights and potentially increasing turbulence, especially in a crosswind where it's going to make it harder to steer. So that's my take on wheels. And then obviously handlebars and all that other stuff very marginal gains, especially given that it's not being designed as a system around the tires and so on.  [00:27:14] Aero helmet and rider position, rider positions the biggest thing that you can do, if you want to improve your. Arrow.  [00:27:20] Craig: Yeah. And I was looking at the question more, less, so about like aerodynamics and more just marketing and bikes in general. And seeing that. There's just a spectrum of bikes that are marketed in different ways. From endurance road bikes, to Aira road bikes, to arrow gravel bikes. I totally agree and understand your comments, and my comments are more just related to the market in general and how there's a plethora of things being directed at consumers and it's ever more confusing to figure it out.  [00:27:50] Fortunately with most quality gravel bikes, you do get this one bike that can do a ton of things. And bikes that you can configure in the way that you ride them. [00:28:02] Randall: Yeah, I think you'll see the incorporation of some functional arrow. There's no reason not to do a tapered head tube or certain other things, but it's such marginal gains. And really, it's hard to build an Aero bike if you're not controlling for the tire volume and given the divergence in tire sizes that these bikes use that's not a really a controllable variable in design.  [00:28:24] Craig: Yeah. So the final question comes from our friend Marcus in Woodside, California. What are your guesses about the big bike tech quantum leap forward coming next, similar in magnitude to.  [00:28:39] to e-bikes and olive green bib shorts.  [00:28:42] Randall: Marcus is a good friend. And I was definitely on trend with the big shorts there. Really, how do you top that? How does the industry come up with the next thing after olive green shorts?  [00:28:51] Craig: Nothing can make a rider faster or look better than all of Deb's shorts.  [00:28:57] Randall: So that's it. Marcus? I think that's the end of innovation in the bike industry. Yeah, this is a space that you know, that I've put a little bit, a bit of thought into. I'm going to let you go first here as well.  [00:29:07] Craig: I think that makes sense, because I agree this is a tailor made Randall question. I do think the continued use of electronic componentry and other electronics that we all use, has to lead to more integration in bicycles, whether it's like battery packs that are embedded in the bikes that can power both my components, my GPS computer, my headlamp, all these things. I feel like it's a natural point, just like we're seeing in every other element of our lives, where battery and power is required. These things start to appear in more innovative ways. So I think that's interesting.  [00:29:46] I think on the e-bike market, we're starting to see more and more of these bikes that not only is the battery removed, but also the engine, the sort of the motor part of the componentry comes out. So you start to get this bike that has assemblance of ability to ride without the component of it and it's not going to match a pure performance bike, but it may, for some people While still having that opportunity to use the e-bike functionality. So I think those are things that trends that we're definitely going to continue to see. And. And some more forward thinking thoughts.  [00:30:21] Randall: Yeah, I agree with that, and I have a little bit more nuance to add but I want to start with the big, low lying fruit, and we started doing this, Basic things like proportional, crank length. I find it nuts that the industry up until recently didn't really make anything smaller than a 1 65 crank and continues to not offer shorter cranks for shorter riders.  [00:30:41] This is one thing that we did, and then you now see FSA has done a good job of having offerings down to, I think 1 45. To accommodate smaller riders and so proportional, crank length. Proportional wheel sizes, I think is a big opportunity. There's no reason why, it's really small riders. Shouldn't have their wheels scaling to some degree. We already have a 26 inch size, so maybe for the biggest higher volume on an extra small bike, you'd run a 26 by 2.2 or something like that. You do need more tire options, but otherwise it would help to make that bike perform more like the bigger ones with a bigger rider on them. So those are two that I would really like to see.  [00:31:18] I'd like to see continued innovation on integrated quick on and off storage solution. So I think lightweight bags and so on are really slick. And I think that we'll continue to see innovation there. You mentioned electronics. I agree. And it's getting ridiculous with the number of batteries you can have on the bike.  [00:31:34] If you have a wireless shifting system, you can have a battery in each hood battery in each front and rear derailleur. You can have sensors on the bike each with separate batteries, a heart rate monitor, or the separate battery two lights with separate batteries, computer. It's silly and it adds a lot of cost and weight and complexity the system. So I think there should be a single battery on the bike and that there should be a universal standard that all components use. I don't think this is going to happen because everyone everyone wants to trap you into their particular walled garden, but that's a conversation for another day.  [00:32:04] But yeah, those are the big ones. And then lastly, self-contained bike systems that leave nearly nothing behind, maybe some sort of lightweight regenerative braking for this one battery. I would like to see. But first things first and then subtler suspension designs, which I think we're already starting to see with more compliance, like flexible components, you.  [00:32:24] Bar handlebar is built with a little bit of flex or a suspension stem versus going whole hog with a full on suspension fork, just to get 30 or 40 millimeters of travel.  [00:32:33] Did I answer your question? Marcus, let us know in the forum. Hope, hope you're satisfied with the answer. And what is the next color of big short. Greg, what do you think.  [00:32:41] Craig: That's putting me on the spot. Maybe like a tan might do something that makes you a little bit nude.  [00:32:47] Randall: Ooh. Yeah, that would be that everybody would be really comfortable seeing that. Yeah, I'm with  [00:32:53] Craig: dangerous territory.  [00:32:54] Randall: we will have various options to match everyone's skin tone. So we all look like we're riding in the nude.  [00:33:02] Trend leader, Craig Dalton.  [00:33:05] Craig: This was a heck of a lot of fun. [00:33:07] And it would not have happened without the community. So big shout out to the ridership community and to everybody who submitted questions. I'd love to see us do this again. So we'll probably set up a channel down the line and put the question out there again and see what's gets generated because it was a lot of fun chatting with you about these questions.  [00:33:25] Randall: Yeah, it's what we do on our rides only we've recorded at this time.  [00:33:29] Craig: Yeah, exactly. That's going to do it for us this week on behalf of Randall and myself, have a great week. And until next time here's to finding some dirt onto your wheels. [00:33:42] 

©hat
Miami University Copyright Conference Episode

©hat

Play Episode Listen Later Oct 18, 2021


You are tuned in to Copyright Chat. Copyright Chat is a podcast dedicated to discussing important copyright matters. Host Sara Benson, the copyright librarian from the University of Illinois, converses with experts from across the globe to engage the public with rights issues relevant to their daily lives. Sara: Welcome to a fun and exciting and unique episode of Copyright Chat. Today, I am here at the Copyright Conference at Miami University, live, creating an episode of Copyright Chat along with Will Cross. We've been talking about the Scholarly Communication Notebook and my podcast's involvement in it, in teaching and learning. And our audience has live, live polled, decided that what we're going to talk about today is potential liability under the CASE Act and sovereign immunity, which is a very timely topic. So I'm very excited to talk about this. There's a lot going on at the Copyright Office with the CASE Act and their proposed rules. So I would love to see if a member of our audience has a question they'd like to start us off with, about either sovereign immunity or the CASE Act. Yeah, someone just posted that the October 4th deadline is weighing heavily on them. It's September 29th and we have until October 4th to respond to the call for comment. Will, have you made any comment to the Copyright Office in response to that call? Will: That's a great question, Sara, and I wonder if it would be useful to give a very quick, like 30-second overview of the topic just so people know what they're thinking about. I see several hands raised as well. So I'll, I'll say that, that very quickly, yes, I've been involved with several, several groups including the EUIPO that I know you are part of as well, and Sara, you released a really nice ALA-sponsored resource in this area. So yeah, we've been thinking about this issue a lot. We did a webinar last week talking to a bunch of different librarians as well. So I see several hands raised. Sara: Yeah, I think Alvin, would you like to ask a question? Alvin: I work at a land-grant, and we should, should, enjoy sovereign immunity. Does that immunity extend to librarians and the scope of their job? Sara: That's a really good question. And, so, sovereign immunity generally would protect individuals who work there in the scope of their employment, at least protecting them from large damages. So I'll use an example. I think most of us on this call are aware of the Georgia State University case, right, where Georgia State was sued for their E-reserves policy, where they said that a flat percentage could be copied from a textbook for E-reserves use. And of course, we know that there's no flat percentage that equals a fair use. And the court actually said that at one point in the case, which was helpful to us copyright librarians. So, that doesn't mean that they're immune from suit. It does mean that they would be immune from the large damages, because that's what sovereign immunity protects, right, from copyright damages. So what they could obtain, in that instance, is an injunction, telling folks to stop doing whatever they're doing that is potentially violating the law. And that's what the plaintiffs, Oxford University Press was one of them in that case, sought. The word of caution about that case is, it lasted a really long time. So even though in the end there were no damages at stake, the case kind of went on and on, and of course, during that time, you incur attorney's fees and other things. So, and I would add as an aside, and someone posted in the chat also, under the CASE Act, state and federal governments are also immune from liability under the CASE Act, presumably following sovereign immunity. However, and one of the things that is a little unclear is, does that extend to employees? And it really should. But if you read the last US Copyright Office proposed rule, they made some really weird claims about agency law, which seemed to make a distinction and say, well, they didn't say employees when they talked about opting out, so maybe they aren't talking about employees when they're talking about state and federal governments? I don't know. I personally think that probably employees shouldn't be held liable under CASE Act either under principles of sovereign immunity, but as we all know, it doesn't prevent you, even in federal court from being sued. It prevents you from incurring damages. It would then say, okay, well, they have less incentive to sue you because they're not going to get those big statutory damages, but they could still sue you and go for an injunction. Will, that was a long answer. I'm going to let you clarify or add your two cents or correct me if I said anything wrong, cause Lord knows I do sometimes. Will: Well, there's two of us, so hopefully between the two of us we'll be okay. No, I think you said it really well. It's important at the outset to say that these are two, sort of parallel aspects of the law, that sovereign immunity specifically says if you are a public institution, a state institution, those damages are not available. But exactly as you say in Georgia State, the, the plaintiffs were not really interested in damages. They were interested in coercing people into accepting a blanket license, right? That was the endgame for them. So that's the first piece. The CASE Act is specifically the Small Claims Tribunal that you described, that is there, in theory because copyright lawsuits are so expensive and complicated, right? The number that's being thrown around a lot, is what, $276,000 or so, is what it costs to, just to basically begin a suit in federal court. So, so, that speaks to the, both the cost of suing somebody and potentially the cost of being sued, even if there are no damages, as those attorney's fees can certainly add up from there. The question then about whether individuals can either opt out or just say, “I'm an employee acting within the scope of my duty, I shouldn't even need to opt out. I'm, I am covered in this case under basic, sort of fundamental principles of agency law.” That, I think, is the heart of this, this comment that's coming up due October 4th, is how we think about library employees in that space. And I, and I think several people have said this and it's absolutely right. Libraries can't do anything without librarians, right? The, the building doesn't get up and walk around and scan books or whatever, right? It's the people doing the work. So, any sort of opt out or exception that said, “The library is immune from suit, but all the individual people can be sued.” is sort of illusory. It doesn't do anything useful, right? So, from my perspective, it's hard to make a good faith argument that librarians shouldn't be considered, sort of, protected by both sovereign immunity and the broad sort of limitations that the CASE Act provides as well, when they're acting within the scope of their employment. And we can have conversations about scope, scope of employment, and that sort of thing as well. But, but to me, that's the, that's the baseline piece of it. The other thing I wanted to say at this stage is it's important, I think, to articulate the sort of privileged nature of libraries and librarianship generally, that this is a core principle in copyright law, that what libraries do is society serving. It meets the mission of the progress clause. So, libraries have this whole, you know, set of copyright exceptions in Section 108. If you've ever put that weird notice on your photocopiers or scanners, that's what you were doing in that context. So, so not only is it a weird reading of agency law to say, “We want to protect the institution, but not any of the people doing the institution's work.” It also sort of flies in the face of the core policy judgment that Congress and the courts have made in terms of saying, “Libraries are really important. The work they do promotes the progress of science and the useful arts. We need to make sure they have the space to do that good work.” So that's, that's my soapbox that I was on for a long time. Sara: I get that. I think, whenever you engage in advocacy with a public body, right, you're not usually, your name is attached to it. And if you're stating what you do for a living and you know, you're, you're potentially letting them know what you do and why you do it. At my library, and this may not be true of others, my name is already out there and what I do is already out there, right? I'm listed very publicly. My resources, my library guides have my name on them, right? So, to me, it didn't raise any specter of liability that I wasn't already kind of dealing with. I think the title copyright librarian kind of indicates, oh yeah, I do have to make fair use assessments and people do come to me and ask questions about copyright information. Of course, I don't make other people's fair use assessments, but I guide them and empower them into making their own. I would say the person who posted here said that they are engaged in interlibrary loan. Again, I, I know what interlibrary loan is, right? That means that you are scanning copyright protected works. That's the nature of the job. And I think most people know that as well. And so to me, hopefully that doesn't really raise any additional liability on your part when you submit something. But of course, I can't promise that there aren't copyright trolls out there, right? Unfortunately, they already exist. I think the benefit in us submitting these comments is that we're trying to let the Copyright Office know that this will impact our daily work. And the goal here, at least for me, in calling for large collective action, is that I want the Copyright Office to understand the impact, that this proposed ruling would have, right? The proposed rule that they put forth about the opt-out provisions said, you know, yes, a library or an archive can opt out, one time, of the CASE Act or Small Claims Act proceedings, and then they never have to worry about it again, right? If someone tries to sue them, they, they opt out automatically. And the benefit of that is that if you forget to opt out, you can get a default judgment against you, right? And then all of a sudden you have damages. And so that's why that was, as Will said, libraries are protected and archives are protected if they do this one time, right? Because our society and our Congress understands that what we do is important. That what we do shouldn't be interrupted constantly by little lawsuits, right? That the library can't function in that way. But what they don't understand, what the Copyright Office doesn't understand, I think, and what Will said quite brilliantly, right, was the library isn't making the scanning. The library, you know, the library is just a building. It doesn't do anything. The library only does things through its employees, and if the employees are constantly being sued, guess what, the library might as well shut down. And so, if Congress really wants to protect libraries from being sued constantly and having to remember to opt out constantly, they should also protect employees from the same. And so, this is what, um, this is why I encourage advocacy. And my real sincere hope is that we will move the needle on this. This was a proposed rule by the Copyright Office. It's not final. And I'm really hopeful that through collective action we're able to convince the Copyright Office that they got it wrong. And if we do that, then our goal has been met, right? Having your name on that document is not going to subject you to any potential liability because you, when your library opts out, it will also cover you. And that's the goal. Can I promised that goal will be met? No. Unfortunately, advocacy is always like that, right? You, you do your best and you hope that it makes that impact. But I do think it's worth doing. I think advocacy is worth doing, even if it does mean that we have to put our name on a public document. Will: Totally agree. And I see we've got an anonymous question I want to address in just a second, but before that, I just want to jump on what you're saying and plus one it as well. There are a surprising number of cases where some larger sort of legal policy fight is happening and librarians can sort of get swept up in it in different ways. I think about the Kirtsaeng case a few years back, where there was this large and sort of technical conversation, about, you know, whether works were lawfully made under this title and what that meant geographically. I don't think most people were thinking about libraries when that litigation was happening. But several library organizations wrote amicus briefs to the Supreme Court and said, “Don't forget about us while you're weighing all these other policy questions, please don't let us get sort of squished underfoot for these big other conversations.” And not only did we get the outcome we wanted, we got some language in the opinion that basically said that “The work of libraries is important, a different ruling in this case would have an adverse effect on libraries and librarianship.” So that was part of our calculus. I think we have some nice case studies where we said, properly, “You might not be thinking about us, but please do in this moment to make a decision that recognizes that.” Sara: Great, I do see that question about whether you can make an anonymous comment. Do we know the answer to that, Will? Will: I think it was answered in the chat, which is that you can, but it's still recorded in certain ways. There was also a person wrote in and asked to, to ask a question here anonymously. So if it's okay, I'll read that one out. And then I see Jonah has his hand up as well. So the question is sort of a strategic one and it asks, is there a risk in, risk involved in stressing how much effect this might have on our daily operations, when we know that some folks in the Copyright Office seem to already think libraries are sketchy, and library users especially, are sort of sketchy edge users, like it does in a sense that confirm the, I think, wildly inaccurate, but existing bias, that like where “We were already sort of looking at you with side-eye and now you're coming back and asking for more protection. What's up with that?” And I think there's something to say around sovereign immunity with that. But Sara, I'm interested how you would respond to that question. Sara: So I think what you're saying is when you write this letter saying how it might impact your daily work, are you going to get kind of a, more scrutiny, I guess, into what you're doing. My answer would be no, but I also didn't, when I wrote in, I didn't write every single thing that I do on a daily basis, in very great detail, right? Because I first of all, like I just, I need to protect patron privacy. So like, that is foremost right? In everything we do, we all know this, right? So I would never say I scanned this thing for this patron or you know, a specific thing. But what I did say is that I routinely make fair use determinations for my own teaching and for my own library guides and my own educational outreach that I do on campus. And it would be hindered if I would have to respond to these lawsuits for everything that I did, right? It would just it, and it might also put me in a position where the risk gets higher and higher, right? I mean, fair use is a risk assessment every time. And so I don't think anyone would look askew at that, only because what I say that I'm doing is really typical. I mean, I'm not I'm not doing anything atypical. And I don't know what you could say that they would feel like is pushing it too far. I mean, I see, I see your point. Maybe if you get into, we're doing controlled digital lending and here's how many books we're scanning and all this, right? Maybe they would think that was pushing it far, but I even think there, many libraries are publicly stating that they're doing controlled digital lending. So that's not even anything super controversial. So I guess, I, I don't think so, but I wonder what you think, Will. Will: Yes, I mean, I think that's right, and along with what you said about fair use being a risk assessment, fair use is a muscle as well, right? And so I think, I personally think there's real value in getting on the record some of these concerns even if we don't win the day. So that as the conversations about the constitutionality of this stuff and other things are there, that that's out there. The piece that I do understand is that they're historically, the Copyright Office has not always been a library-first policy body, right, for better or for worse. So I, I, I could imagine somebody saying if I was talking to a judge or a legislature, they often love libraries, but this particular context feels different. The other piece I wanted to bring in is, we included sovereign immunity in this conversation because that's been kind of a third rail in this space and it's not the same thing, but I think in terms of the way policy folks are thinking about it, it overlaps. So just to quickly share that context, my state, North Carolina, relied on sovereign immunity for some pretty aggressive use of photographs of Blackbeard's ship, without, sort of going through the steps that they maybe should have done. That's for a court, and not for me, to decide. And last term, the Supreme Court upheld sovereign immunity. They said that sovereign immunity should exist. Even in this context where this doesn't seem like the best case study. Like, if I wanted to defend sovereign immunity, those set of behaviors or not, the model set of behaviors I would have brought forward. Sara: And just sovereign immunity means that a state or federal government cannot be sued in copyright for damages, for money. Not that they can't be sued, right? Because we all know that they could for Georgia State purposes, right, for maybe an injunction or, injunction means stop doing that, right? Whatever you're doing, stop it. But that they can't get those statutory damages. Sorry. I'm just interrupting you, go on. Will: No. Thank you. Sara: I like and I also love the fact that it was a pirate case. Will: Yes. Sara: Yeah, there's nothing better than a case about copyright that involves a pirate, just saying. Will: At last we find when piracy is the right statement, finally, when using the term so much. Anyway, one of the results of that is the court's opinion basically said, “Under current law, sovereign immunity stands. But if you have concerns, the legislature can do something about it.” So this large study was launched to try and determine whether or not we should revisit sovereign immunity. It, we could spend some time talking about that report. I think it, it, the people watching it came in with a set of expectations that weren't necessarily met by the data they found on the ground. But, at least to me, that creates a sense that people are sniffing around the broader concept of sovereign immunity and saying, “This, this blanket shield from liability makes me suspicious and skeptical.” And these larger questions about the policy values of that liability are being asked. I think there's a really overwhelmingly strong way to articulate why it's important to have that immunization and that protection both for sort of nerdy, you know, principles of federalism reasons, but also for actual on the ground work. But if there's already an environment where people are launching studies trying to undo or remove sovereign immunity, having the conversation about how librarians are treated under the CASE Act may touch that third rail in some places. So I, the thing that really resonated to me in that question was that, that sense of like, “These are stormy times, I'm going to be careful where I stick my umbrella.” Or something. Sara: Well definitely, and folks have been, folks being legislators, had been kind of attacking sovereign immunity. And the Copyright Office has done their own inquiry into it. And for now, at least, according to the Supreme Court and the Copyright Office, there is no viable evidence of you know, enough harm to individuals through sovereign immunity that we should breach sovereign immunity or get rid of it. However, yes, that's an ongoing thing and it kind of continues to poke, rear its head, right, because the Copyright Office will tell them, “Well, we don't have enough evidence right now, but come back to us in five years with another report,” right? I mean, that's kind of what happens. It's like “Gather some more evidence.” And they had a horror story, a parade of horribles of, you know, that poor individuals, and some of them I really did feel for, I have to tell you, I was there during the hearings and they were saying like, “The university stole this and made all this money. And then they told me to go away because the sovereign immunity,” and that does happen. I'm not going to lie it does, but I mean, that's not what, that's not typical. I mean, at my university, my general counsel joined me for the sovereign immunity hearings, and, you know, we consider ourselves good faith actors. Like, if we find out that a faculty member has done something illegal or copied something, put on their website, we immediately go take it down. We say, “Okay, we need to do something about this right away.” We don't just say “Too bad, we're not going to pay any damages,” right? So it's, it's just, it does happen. It's unfortunate. But I think that it's pretty rare. And I think that was what the Copyright Office concluded, that the evidence really just didn't show that it's widespread enough to create that kind of irreparable harm that we would need to pierce sovereign immunity. I see Jonah's had his hand up for a while, so Jonah - Jonah: So I've seen several commentators and Will just mentioned a moment ago that there was some question about the constitutionality of the CASE Act. I was wondering if both of you could expand a little bit about why people feel that the CASE Act might be unconstitutional. And also, I assume that unconstitutionality applies to the entire framework of the CASE Act and not just vis-à-vis, like library employees. Sara: That's right. And great question, and I'm not the most familiar with these arguments, so I'll let Will jump in, but my understanding is that it has to do with the tribunal, and that it's not an official court. And I think that's the concern, that you've got, not, not a real, it's not a real court, right? It's, it's appointed by, these are judges appointed by the Copyright Office to handle these claims. Over to Will. Will: That's exactly right. The Seventh Amendment talks about the right to trial by jury. And obviously you can opt out of your trial by jury in some cases. But the CASE Act, by creating this weird tribunal, that's not necessarily even in the article 3 constitutional space, that's where judges tend to live, generally, there's this question about whether people's rights are being impacted in some way. Because it's this sort of weird, made-up, quasi court where you don't have all of your rights and protections, but it does still seem to be bind right? You can't lose under a case tribunal and then just kick back to the federal court if you don't like the results. So are we locking people and especially through this, right, the, the, if you get an email or if you don't get an email because it went to your spam, telling you that you have been accused and you don't respond, you're stuck with whatever judgment they have. So if, you can, without getting any opportunity to trial by jury, or even in some cases, any opportunity to meaningfully understand that anything has been raised, and you're bound by that, there are, I think, serious constitutional problems there as well. People have also, I think, rightly asked some questions about whether this is described as a small claims process. Well, where I sit, $30,000 is not small claims, right? That's, that would be a real life-changer for me in some ways. So, from the perspective of a large international rights holder, $30,000 might be the thing you find in your couch cushion or whatever. But I think that the claim that “This is just for the little stuff, you know, up to $30,000,” feels a little maybe disingenuous or just out of tune with the way most people's lives and finances work. Sara: Right. And one thing that I struggle with is how this court would be compared with administrative judges, for instance. Because I think their argument on the other side would be like “This is just like an administrative court where we don't have all the same rules as, you know, regular court and you don't necessarily have a trial by jury, but we have delegated our rights to this administrative court judge.” You think that's going to fly here, Will? Will: I have stopped trying to predict the Supreme Court over the past year or two as it has continued to surprise me. If we could go this podcast without using the word Chevron at any point, that would make me super happy. I do not know, To me both the equities in the constitutional arguments seem pretty compelling in terms of questioning it, but it would, because that's where I sit and that's the world I live in and those are the issues I think about. So I, I would like to imagine that the Supreme Court would take a close look at this, but I would like to imagine a lot of things. Sara: Yeah. No, and I do think, that that's, I think that's going to be their response. And again, I don't, also don't know how that would turn out. I do also know, I think the Electronic Frontier Foundation is looking into this and very serious about suing, but they have to wait till they have a real case. So I think they have to wait until someone gets sued, and then they'll have standing to bring a lawsuit. Until then you don't have, so standing is, is one of the requirements we have to file a lawsuit. You can't say well, “Prospectively, I'm just mad about this.” You have to have some real damages happening to a real person, a real plaintiff. So I think that they're gathering up what they can in the meantime and all their arguments, and they're kind of waiting for the first plaintiff to come along who says, “Yeah, take my case and let's fight it constitutionally.” That's my understanding, and I'm, I'll definitely be on the sidelines cheering them on, or happy to help them if I can in any way. Will: Yeah, I feel the same way and I imagine there will be a certain amount of plaintiff shopping. Who is the most, you know, who, who is the best example of why this is problematic set of practices. Sara: Great point. Will: Something to watch. Sara: We have a question in the chat that other people are, are kind of saying “Me too!” So I'm going to read it out loud here. It says “I'm organizing an email to our library staff to alert them about the CASE Act so they can submit their own statements, and I'm pushing for an institutional statement. I'm wondering if I should reach out to faculty at my institution. Would this potentially affect faculty as well. Those working on OERs are using course reserves, for example. Or is this more librarian oriented?” So the opt out provision is for libraries and archives specifically. And so, generally, I would say, “Will the CASE Act impact faculty?” Probably so, right, and that also depends on whether you're a public institution or private institution because we again, don't know how the courts are going to look at sovereign immunity. And they've, they've allowed and said, state and federal governments can't be sued under the CASE Act, but we don't really know how that's going to play out in terms of individual employees. So there's that. But in terms of this opt out, if you're trying to have people respond about the opt out specifically, that is about library employees and archival employees. Will: Well said, I'll ask the follow-up question to you and if other folks want to jump in as well, what, if anything, are you going to do to prepare your non-library employees there? Are there a series of workshops coming out to say, “This is a wacky thing. It might never affect you, but if you're interested, here it comes.” Or how are we as a community thinking about educating beyond the libraries in this matter? Sara: That's a really good question. And, and for me, I feel like it's a little early, only because these proposed rules are still coming out. Like there's another proposed rule that came out just today. And I got it in my e-mail and said, “Okay, too long, didn't read yet, but will, right?” So I think it's such a moving target that I'm not prepared yet to reach out to faculty generally, but I do think it will be important once we kind of know where the playing field is and what's going on to have some, some strategic conversations. Like first, I'm going to have strategic conversations with library administration. Like, even if we are state and federal, a state or federal library, which we are at University of Illinois, if the opt-out provisions are extended to employees, I'm, I'm going to push that we just file the opt-out regardless, because it would cover our employees. That would be my ask to my administration, if we get what we're asking for in this push right now. Secondly, I would have to say, yeah, to faculty and say, “Let's have this conversation. What is this thing? What is this small claims court? What are the potential outcomes and how does this impact you?” And then again, big question mark, “We are at a state government institution, how does that impact employees?” And I would also really encourage them to understand that they can always opt out no matter what. So even if you can't opt out preemptively and do it once and it's going to apply to everything, which is, of course a good scenario, you can opt out for every single suit. And then that would say to the person, “Hey, sue me in federal court.” Now, we know how sovereign immunity works in federal court, right, at least currently. And so that would give us some measure of protection there if we're not sure about the CASE Act outcome. And so, you know, without giving legal advice, which I'm not allowed to do in my role as copyright librarian, I would try to let them know, like here are the options, right? The option is you go to this court and try to argue that because you're a state or federal employee, you know, they can't sue you, but, you know, I don't know how that's going to turn out. Or you can opt out and say, “Hey, you would have to come and sue me in federal court.” And we know that's pretty cost-prohibitive for them. And we also know that they can't get damages against you there. So I would let them know these are their options and of course, everyone has to make their own decision because I might have a faculty member who knows a lot about this and is like, “I'm really angry, really angry that they're suing me, they shouldn't be. So I'm going to fight this.” I mean, hey, more power to them, but like, I'm not going to tell them to do that necessarily. I'm going to give them options. Will: Thank you. Yeah, a couple of people, Molly Keener, and others have added in chat, and it sounds like they're doing basically the same thing. “We're keeping high level administration aware, we're talking to counsel's offices. But it's a little early.” I also wanted to, I think Nancy in the chat mentioned that if you're especially at a larger institution, the question I get sometimes is like “I work in the library, so I'm going to write on behalf of the library where, I work at NC State, so I'm going to write.” And at most institutions, especially as Nancy says, large institutions, there are pretty clear rules around who can and cannot speak and write on behalf of the institution. So if I submitted comments on behalf of NC State, our legislative advocacy people would murder me and you would never find my body, right? So, so be aware that there are a small set of people who can speak on behalf of the institution, and that there are probably people on your campus who have big feelings about who is doing that work. Sara: That's a really good point. And on the flip side of that, I've been really fortunate to work with those government outreach folks at Illinois to get their kind of permission, if you will, to speak on behalf of the library and the sovereign immunity instance, for instance. I'm, I coauthored a letter on behalf of our institution with our counsel's office. So if you go through the right channels, you can get those permissions, but you have to be aware that you need that. You can't just go ahead and do it. And also usually you need the Dean of the library to say it's okay, the counsel's office to say it's okay, the government relations folks to say it's okay, and just to go through a variety of, of processes. When things come up really quickly like this, this current call for responses, I just signed it on behalf of myself individually because I sometimes I don't have time to run through the chain of command, right? Like to know like, okay, I need to go to this person and this person then this. Like, just because you have permission to do it once doesn't mean it's kosher to do it again and again and again. So I had permission, like I said, on sovereign immunity to really speak up on behalf of the university. But I don't have that permission like as a blanket statement. It's a really good point. Any other questions? Take it away. Will: So Susan Kendall asks whether we can share some communication that you would have the library administration, that those of us who are not lawyers, can use with your administration. I don't have anything in my back pocket, but it seems like a great service. Some group, whether it's EUIPO or ALA, or whomever, could do is to say, “Here's some model language to let people know what's happening with CASE, here's some model language that's targeted towards faculty” and you know that there is a broad need for that. So that might be something that maybe somebody has already done. I'd love to learn about it. And if not, it would be great if somebody could do it. Sara: Will, I love that idea. And I think in terms of when we move forward, I think that we are, that would be a great service, right? To have some standard like “Here's language to communicate about CASE with your employees. Here's some if you're a public employee. Here's some if you're a private employee, here's some for libraries, here's…” something like that would be such a great thing. And I am a member of the ALA Policy Corps group and I think that would be an awesome project for us. And again, I would say it's a little early for that in terms of how we can, we can't predict the future about CASE. So we gotta wait a little bit and then I'm really, fingers crossed, that the lawsuit about constitutionality actually goes forward and we can get rid of all of these concerns, but it's just a moving target. And unfortunately, that's, that happens a lot with copyright, right? It's, it's, it's a moving target a lot of the time. So I do, I think we should have some sort of repository for that kind of information. And I, I, I think it's a great idea. There's a question, did the Library Copyright Institute create a sample of language that could be used? I don't think so, but I do know, you know, if you look at the comments that have been posted about the CASE Act, there's a lot of good information you can gather. It's all public. Will, do you know of anything that they created the Library Copyright Institute? Will: We did a webinar on this last week and we borrowed your language. We said “This is what ALA has provided. This is a nice way to, here's some specific verbiage you can borrow, but also here's a nice way to frame, sort of introduce the idea, provide your context, give specific examples.” So that's the thing that was circulating in those slides that should be available, the recording should be available at this point, but that's not LCI's credit, that's ALA's credit. We were just sharing their good work. Sara: You know, everyone has their own unique perspective and we all have different ways of looking at things, right? And so it's really good to get, just a variety of perspectives, about all the things that are happening in copyright world. Kenny is obviously a wonderful person to talk to always because he's just a really nice person. And I have a Copyright Chat episode talking with Kenny. So I recommend you listen to it if you're interested. He of course authored the famous Copyright Checklist, that most people use for fair use. I recommend it to folks all the time. And in our, in that particular episode, we were talking about the copyright guidelines in Circular 21 and how they're really outdated. Other questions? Audience Member: I do. So what is next? How should we proceed in the coming months, while we kind of wait to see what comes down? And once those things come down, the final rulemaking, what the court looks like, what are ways we can work together to move forward? Sara: That's a great question. I mean, I think one thing that I would recommend to everyone here, is to sign up for the US Copyright Office Notices. This is how I learn about what's going on with the CASE Act and the new rulings and things, right? Instead of hearing it from someone else, you can hear it directly from the Copyright Office. So I highly recommend that, and read, read the proposed rulings as they come out. And if you feel that there's something that you or your library could respond to, pass it up to your dean, pass it up to general counsel and keep them apprised of what's going on because things are definitely still moving along and not solidified yet. So keep on being engaged in that process because I think it's really important that we are aware of how it's, how it's moving. And then once, once we have some final idea of what's going on, hopefully the ALA Policy Corps or someone else can put out some really helpful, useful information. I'm thinking like the SPARC information that they have about the state by state laws on OER, right? They're just so good. I love their website and their tools. If we can come up with something like that, that's just really short, but really comprehensive, I think that we could be doing a really great service. So maybe come up with your own stuff and we can kind of put our heads together and come up with that documentation because I think we're going to need a lot of outreach to our faculty and to fellow librarians about how this might impact our work. Will: Yeah, that's, that's a great point. And the question that you mentioned a moment ago is, is if this constitutionally goes away next term, have we spent all this time getting people invested and raised all this awareness, and then suddenly it's like “What happened to that CASE thing you said was going to ruin the world?” “Well, it just went away.” So as, as we were talking about engagement with faculty, that's one of the issues that I'm really thinking about is, one, getting faculty to show up for a website on copyright Small Claims Tribunal can be challenging. So I'm, I'm wondering if other people are having that, like, is this something faculty and others aren't going to care about until they're being sued and it's too late. Like, is there a way to say “This might be nothing. It might be really important, but you need to know about it now. Because once you get a notification, it's probably too late for us to do anything about it.” Sara: Yeah, I mean, I don't think it's too late for us to do anything once they get a notification as long as they didn't sit on it. Because I, I just read, the one thing that I did read is that you have 60 days to respond to the notice under the proposed rules. Again, nothing final, which is quite a long time, if it got to the right place. Like Will was saying, if it got in your junk email or went to the wrong location, like that's just a problem. But if, if a faculty member does come to me and they have the notice in hand, I think that's a really good time to have that kind of “Here are your options” conversation, right? I mean, you could do nothing and then you could get a default judgement. That's not a good idea, right? Default judgment means “You didn't even bother to show up, pay these damages, because this is what we've decided.” So that's bad, and right, your options are, you know, opt out and decide to say, “Hey, you know, I'm not, I'm not engaging in this process. If you want to sue me, take me to federal court” or respond, right? And then you can respond with, “Hey, this was a fair use,” or “Hey, this is, I'm a government employee” or whatever your defense is, but of course you don't have any guarantees that how that's going to turn out because these are the judges, judges are not real, they're not federal judges, they're not necessarily trained. And even federal judges on copyright sometimes get pretty confused. They get a little turned around. So I've had experiences as a practicing lawyer that you wouldn't believe or I have a motion that I think is a slam dunk and I get denied. And then I have another motion that I think there's no way in heck, this is going to go through and the judge lets it through. So judges sometimes do wonky things. So it's important for people to know that too. Even if they're like, “I know I have a fair use. I know that this is permissible, that's so obvious.” That's why, yeah, judges sometimes make mistakes and I think these judges could too, right? Will: You would hope. And I'm sure the argument is, these judges are going to have that specialist training, so they'll be especially well-prepared. So then the question is, who's going to give them that training? Is CCC's version of a copyright webinar, is it ALA's, et cetera. So that specialization you're right, is a problem too. Sometimes comedic levels, at the federal level, whether the specialization that these judges have means they are more sophisticated or just more invested in one view of the doctrine is a different thing. Carla, please go ahead. I'm sorry. Carla: No, this conversation brings something to mind for me in that happened back when I was in college, which was during the time of Napster in the late 1990s. And I met one of my friends for lunch and he was looking very depressed. He had gotten notice from a music company and they said “We saw you've been sharing our music illegally online, that you can either pay $3,000” in the late 1990s to a college student, which was terrifying, “Or we will sue you.” And you know, something I was just thinking is, could we see with the CASE Act, copyright trolls saying, “Hey, we're going to see you in small claims court. But if you don't opt to do that, we're going to take you to federal court, or you can just make this all go away by paying us X amount of dollars and we'll leave you alone.” And the chilling effect that might have, do you think that's a possibility? Sara: I definitely think that's a possibility and I think that, that's part of the art, the goal of outreach, right? Is to educate people that they can opt out and that they don't have to pay that money, right? So yeah, it's, it's, it's definitely a possibility and, and if folks are just unaware of what this is, right, they think, “Oh, I'm going to go to court, I better pay this” and they don't even know. I know that the notice is supposed to tell you about the opt-out provision and all of those things. But, you know, some people just get really scared. You get a letter in the mail saying you have to pay this money. And you think, “Oh no, I have to do this,” right? You just want it to go away. And so I think that is a real possibility. Will: Yeah, I've, I've dropped the phrase, but somebody basically described the CASE act as a copyright troll factory. I think there's, there's something to that. Nancy, I saw your hand raised. If you'd like to ask a question or jump in, please do. Nancy: Yeah, I, I realized that what I was thinking about is, is rather tangential. But with respect to trolling, those of you who work in academic libraries may have seen some of this lately. I've seen an increase in people who put some kind of vaguely copyrightable measurement tool online. And then other people use it without permission, which is only questionably a copyright violation anyway, forms are not usually very copyrightable. But the people who made the form, some people really seem to have gone full trolling model on this. Their form is out there primarily to get people to use it. And then once people have used it, if they publish on the research they did with the tool, they are now threatening the authors with lawsuits. I don't know if they're getting payments, but they are getting retractions. Which is, I'm concerned about, just because that's not a correct legal response to this kind of, if it is a copyright violation, retractions are not the right answer. But, but I think that the over, as I said, this is tangential, that's why I put my hand down. But it is an illustration that the trolling model already exists, and has both some monetary drivers and some other weird drivers that I don't understand. Sara: Yes, it definitely does exist. And as Jonah was pointing out, there is someone who is licensing under Creative Commons and then using that to sue people, which is even worse in my opinion, it's like you're using Creative Commons to trap people into violating the whatever you put on there and then you're suing them. It's just mind-blowing. But yes, I think, I think unfortunately, some people are trying to trap people into using their thing and then suing them. But I would agree that a retraction is maybe not the way to go. And also someone, I wish someone, would just fight that, right? And get a court to say, “Hey, by the way, this isn't even copyrightable.” But the problem is, and we all know this, going to court is not free, right? You can't go, most people can't just go to court and say, “Okay, I'm going to be pro se.” You have the court filing fees, you have to show up and you have all these deadlines. It's a very complicated process, so it's not as easy as all that, although I wish someone would fund it, maybe EFF, and like, find out if there is someone they could defend and really push the issue. Because if this is happening again and again and again, it needs to be dealt with, in my opinion. Will: And good discussion in the chat on the, sort of the rise of copyleft trolls. There's an article in there documenting the practice, and then Creative Commons has been working recently on updating their license enforcement language to say, “It's your right, but what we hope the community will do is follow this set of practices.” Sara: Yeah, Nancy, Nancy is like “Exactly what academic author is going to say, “I'm going to defend this and see you in court, sue me” and then like get their own lawyer.” I mean, it's just so expensive, so we really would need an organization to take that on. Agreed. But it would be great. Other questions. This has been such a fun conversation. I just have to say this was a really fun thing to do. And I'm so happy that you all were so engaged. I just, the time has been flying by and I've been really enjoying it and it was fun for me to be on the other side, right? Not to be the one asking all the questions, but to get to answer some of them. So I really enjoyed engaging with you all. I hope this will inspire some of you to listen to other episodes of Copyright Chat and to give me your feedback about those and to get engaged with them. And maybe use the Scholarly Communication Network output that I come up with about teaching with Copyright Chat, or come up with your own ways to teach with Copyright Chat. I've actually used, that, that method with Gordon Spiegel before. And I did it live in a class. I played the episode and then I would stop it. And as I asked him a question, I would say to the class like, “What's your answer?” right? And have them kind of figure out if they knew the answer to a common copyright myth. And it was a really fun way of holding a live class. So you can even use the, the podcast live during class. There are just so many different ways to use it for teaching. So I really hope that some of you are inspired to do that. Will: Yeah, thank you for saying that. That brings us back to the sort of the SCN conversation at the top that this can be a “Your final assignment is create a podcast.” instead of writing a research paper that gets thrown away, it's there, or, “Take two podcasts and remix them in different ways.” All the pedagogical opportunities here, I think are really, really exciting and important. Sara: Or come up with a new module, right? “Find one of Sara's Copyright Chat podcasts that she didn't turn into a teaching module and come up with your own teaching module” and then add it in to the OER right there. Just so many, possibilities are endless, but I do love the idea of creating your own copyright podcast, which is kind of fun. Because I just think I've had assignments like that where I've gotten to create something myself and I always find them really, really engaging. And active learning is just, for me, a lot more rewarding. Any, any other final comments from the crowd or things you would love to hear a Copyright Chat podcast about? Because I'm always looking for ideas. If you have other topics that you just think, “Hey, you really should do a topic about this.” Oh, a music one, ooh, that's a really good idea. I should definitely do a music one. “Do you use videos from Copy Talk as part of educational material?” So I don't have videos on the Copyright Chat because it's a podcast, but I do have sometimes links to readings and sometimes links to other videos and things so, that I'll put with, so I always have a transcription of the podcast because obviously some folks can not engage with it, if they're hard, they have hearing struggles, so I always have a transcript available. And with the transcript is where I put additional materials. Will: I was just going to say, one of the things I really appreciated about this session is the way you've demystified the technical aspects. I think if you said to somebody out of the blue “Do you want to make a podcast?”, they'd go, “That sounds really complicated and difficult.” And I think this has been a nice demonstration that it's actually not as challenging and not as big of an ask as it could be. And obviously the opportunity to have some intro music from ccMixter, or right, you can sort of walk that copyright walk in terms of the way you build resources and, or rely on fair use to play a short clip from something. You could ask students to demonstrate their understanding of those concepts in the way they build the podcast. Carla: So, as we're nearing the end of the podcast, I just want to express my deepest thanks, first off to Will and Sara, for this wonderful and very informative discussion on the CASE Act. I know this has been in so many folks' minds and I am welcoming every learning opportunity I can get on this. And I think this has been an exceptional one. My deepest thanks also to our participants. It has really warmed my heart over the last few days to see how much you all are engaging with these presentations, the conversations going on in the chat. I just think this is so fantastic and the chat will be preserved. I know there's some questions about that, so you can download that, and I'm happy to pull links out of the chat, to put in a document that we can ask later. Before we close out, any final thoughts to share, Will and Sara? Sara: I would just say, I'm so happy to see so many people engaging with copyright here in this room today. And just keep on, keep on doing that, right? I mean, I'm always learning something new about copyright every day. And copyright is one of those fun things that changes a lot. Right, as someone was pointing out, “You should talk about music, cause there are a lot of new cases and it's changing a lot”, right? It is. And then the Music Modernization Act changed it even more, right? That's what makes it fun is that it's, it's a moving target, something that you can always learn something new about. I never claim to know everything about copyright because… Kenny Crews might know everything about copyright, but not me. But I always, I just have a passion for it. And I think that's what you need to have if you want to be a copyright librarian and if you're interested at all, reach out to me, we are a really great group of people. We are a really nice group of people and we help each other. It's been, it's been a fabulous career choice for me. I've really enjoyed working with everyone including Karla and Will, and Nancy on this call, and Emily. And I just really can't say enough about it as a career choice. So if you're thinking about it at all, feel free to reach out to me, and I'm happy, I'm always happy to chat with anybody, especially because I love Copyright Chat. Will: Yeah, I'll say the same thing, but not as well, as I've been doing for most of the session today. I, I, it's a really fun community to be part of, and I'm really excited about resources like Copyright Chat and the SCN, that sort of capture the community conversation. And it's not just like “This is the expert and we're going to shut up and listen to them.” It is, “Let's talk about this as a group and share different experiences.” I think we'll get a better and more robust and more invitational, and inclusive as well, understanding of what this body of practice is and can and should be. So I appreciate everybody adding your voice today and I'll second Sara, what she said, please reach out anytime. Questions like “I'm new to the field, and how do I deal with that?” or “What do you think about this?” We're all very happy to have those conversations. Sara: And shout out to Molly and Sandra. I mean, it's just a really fabulous group of people. I cannot say enough about my copyright colleagues. They are just wonderful people also. If you're at all intimidated and you say, “Ooh, it's law, I just don't want to get engaged,” like, talk to us, because really, really you can do it. And especially if you find it really interesting and fascinating and you know, you just really want to learn more. That to me is a sign that you're, you're interested, right? And so, even if you don't want to become a copyright librarian, if you're just like, “I'm going to be the go-to copyright person at my library.” Hey, everyone needs that. That's a certainty. So, and then, don't feel afraid to ask questions when you have them. Because again, I mean, we, we ask questions all the time, and no question is a bad question, and I'm always happy to engage with people, so please, please reach out, and thanks for joining us today. It was so much fun.

Ray Appleton
Hour 3 - Fresno Woman Who Received $4.9M After Police Killed Her Son Arrested For Buying Guns For Other Son, Gang. The Taliban Says U.S. Has Agreed To Provide Humanitarian Assistance To Afghanistan.

Ray Appleton

Play Episode Listen Later Oct 12, 2021 36:49


A Fresno, California, area woman who received a nearly $5 million settlement after the police killed her son has been arrested for using some of that money to buy guns for another son and gang members. The U.S. has agreed to provide humanitarian aid to a desperately poor Afghanistan on the brink of an economic disaster, while refusing to give political recognition to the country's new Taliban rulers. California's attorney general launched an investigation Monday into an offshore oil spill that leaked tens of thousands of gallons of crude into the Pacific Ocean, killing dozens of animals and threatening a wide swath of the Southern California coast. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Roy Green Show
Today's podcast, October 9th, features: Harvard Prof Dan Wikler. Priority care for vaccinated? - Fuel/energy costs hurting Canadians. Dan McTeague. - Winnipeg resident Howie Eugenio. Cautiously agreed to vaccination. - Vice-Admiral Mark Norman. Canada mu

Roy Green Show

Play Episode Listen Later Oct 9, 2021 50:55


Beyond The Bump
What's the latest evidence on our little ones' mental wellbeing? - with Derek from raisingchildren.net.au

Beyond The Bump

Play Episode Listen Later Oct 4, 2021 72:33


In our ninety-sixth episode of Beyond the Bump, we chat with Derek from raisingchildren.net.au. We ask him all your questions about our little ones' mental wellbeing:Who are the main people accessing raisingchildren.net.au?Have the recent lockdowns in Australia exacerbated parent's reaching out for help?Does increased screen time play a part in children's mental health?Is there any information on the impact of masks on kids' mental health and social abilities going forward?Does leaving babies to cry/self-settle have an impact on their future mental health?Is an anxious child born an anxious child? Is there anything we can do when our kids are young to reduce their risk of having mental child issues later on?Is childcare generally beneficial or negative for kids' mental health?There's a real move towards ‘gentle parenting' at the moment, is there hard evidence around ‘gentle parenting' vs ‘disciplinary parenting'?Is there research around whether or not bum smacking can negatively impact children's mental health?At what age should we start speaking to our children about mental health issues?What is separation anxiety and what's normal vs. requires some professional assistance?What helps build a child's resilience?and MORE!Beyond the Bump is a podcast brought to you by Jayde Couldwell and Sophie Pearce! A podcast targeted at mums, just like you! A place to have real conversations with honest and authentic people. We hope you absolutely LOVE this episode!Follow us on Instagram at @beyondthebump.podcast to stay up to date with behind the scenes and future episodes.  Goodies mentionedraisingchildren.net.auRaising Healthy Minds App This episode of Beyond the Bump is brought to you by Bud. The Label:Jayde, what do you look for when you're buying clothes for your kids?Well, they have to be comfortable, easy to wash and not offensive when you look at them.Agreed. Can I tell you about a brand you may not be familiar with?Absolutely. I'm always happy to discover new brands and go shopping. I thought so. So, the brand is called Bud. The Label. It was created by two Sydney mums who wanted clothes that were comfy enough for kids to play in, good enough quality that you can wash them time and time again, and that are gender-neutral and timeless.Pretty much all of Bud. The Label's clothes are 100% cotton, so they're soft on their skin, and there's no extra bits and bobs to annoy or irritate them… just simple, well-designed, comfy clothes.They also have sizes from approx. six months through to four years. And what I also love is that each collection complements the last so you can build on your bubs wardrobe and pass pieces down to younger siblings, while also purchasing new (if that makes sense!)If this sounds up your alley head to budthelabel.com to check them out and use the code: BEYONDTHEBUMP10 for 10% off!

Ten Cent Takes
Issue 16: Superman and RadioShack

Ten Cent Takes

Play Episode Listen Later Sep 30, 2021 65:03


What happens when you combine two of the biggest brands of the early 1980s? You get RadioShack's TRS-80 Whiz Kids comics, with special guest stars from the DC Universe. Marvel at snarky teens sassing the Man of Steel, then laugh at how he makes them perform complex math with mediocre computers! ----more---- Episode 16 Transcript Mike: [00:00:00] I used to go into an office, and when I did that, I had a dog that everybody loved and I baked cookies every day. Hello, hello, hello, welcome to Ten Cent Takes, the podcast where we sell out as superheroes, one issue at a time. My name is Mike Thompson and I am joined by my co-host, the talk show host of terror, Jessika Frazer. Jessika: Bwahahaha! I like when you give me nicknames that are a little mischievous and/or villainous, by the way. Mike: I mean, villains are always the most fun. Jessika: They really are. They get to do all the cool shit.  Mike: Yeah. You need a strong villain in order to have a good story. Jessika: Absolutely.  Mike: The purpose of this podcast is to look at notable moments in comic book history. [00:01:00] They can be big or they can be small, but we always hope that they're interesting, and we like to talk about them in ways that are both fun and informative. Today, we are going to be going back back back to the eighties and talking about the time that Superman sold computers for Radio Shack. Jessika: Fucking sellout.  Mike: Man, I don't. Can you blame him though? I mean, he was a reporter, like he needed the extra cash. Jessika: That's true. That does not pay all that much, from my understanding  Mike: Uh, speaking as someone who worked as a journalist for a decade, I can tell you it does not.  Jessika: Confirmed, everyone.  Mike: Confirmed. Before you freak out and think that you've missed an episode or that things are airing out of order, we are actually still doing the Sandman book club series, but we have decided to break it up, so it's not just one giant slog for people who aren't interested in Sandman. So that way there's a little something for [00:02:00] everybody, even as we're doing that prolonged experience. So every other episode will be the Sandman book club. Before we get to that though. What is one cool thing that you have read or watched recently? Jessika: Just last night, I watched the first episode of the Amazon Prime, let me just say it's 18+, animated series, Invincible.  Mike: Hmm.  Jessika: Have you seen that yet?  Mike: I haven't, I read the comic for a while and I really liked it, but then it just kind of felt very repetitive. And also, I didn't like how the comic got very women in refrigerator-y. Jessika: Oh, okay, fair enough.  Mike: Like yeah. Um, I hear it's great. I just, it's kind of, it's kind of like The Boys where like, I read the comic and, and then when they announced they were making a TV [00:03:00] show, I went, eh don't know. I like, I'm not sure. I really want to see that translated to the screen and then it was great. And so I'm sure that Invisible will be great. Jessika: I will be talking about The Boys later, in fact.  Mike: Oh okay. Well, then. Jessika: But for now, yeah, I know, spoilers. So for those of you who hadn't seen it yet, it's about a teenage boy whose father is a famous superhero and the kid himself has also potentially expected to get powers, which he, not spoiling anything, he does, and very early on in this episode. And when this happens, his father starts teaching them how to use them properly, even though he seems a little disappointed, even, that his really did have powers, which was kind of strange, but we'll see where that goes. But what I really liked about this series, is that they make fun of our well-known superheroes with a character like Batman and one that's very much like Wonder Woman, et cetera. And again, I don't want to give too much away, but the ending is [00:04:00] super intense, and I'll definitely be watching more of it tonight after we've finished recording this.  Mike: Yeah. And I will say that the comic itself has moments that are shockingly intense too. And it's really interesting because there are these moments that feel very wholesome and playful, and then there are other scenes that are complete 180 and it's really, it's kind of whiplash.  Jessika: That was how it felt in the show as well. So I mean, that translated definitely.  Mike: Yeah, it's one thing that's actually really neat is that it's the guy who wrote the comic, Robert Kirkman, is also the guy who created the walking dead.  Jessika: Hm.  Mike: So, you know, dude knows how to write a hit.  Jessika: Yeah.I guess so, huh. Mike: Yeah. Jessika: Well, what about you? What have you been reading or watching?  Mike: You mentioned a couple of weeks ago that you had read the first issue of a series called Die, by Kieron Gillen.  Jessika: Yeah.  Mike: I'd heard about it. I thought it looked [00:05:00] interesting. And then you mentioning that, threw it back on my radar, and so I found the first three volumes on Hoopla and I wound up bingeing through all of them in a couple of hours. And it's really good. I really like how it matches up a bunch of D & D tropes along with other things. And I just, I really, really enjoyed it. And so I want to say thank you for putting that on my radar. Jessika: Oh, that's awesome. Yeah, absolutely. You're welcome. And I'll have to go on Hoopla and check out more myself because I'd been wanting to, I just haven't gotten around to it yet.  Mike: No, shall we, uh, shall we mosey along?  Jessika: Mosey let's do it.  Mike: What do you remember about Radio Shack when you were growing up? Jessika: Good old Radio Shack. Radio Shack was huge, when I was growing up. It was [00:06:00] definitely a household name and it had a reputation that it carried most electronics related items that you may want or need to purchase. So just on my memory block here in particular, they used to carry a radio that was pretty easy to alter, to be a scanning radio, to use for ghost hunting. And for a while, it was a great cheap alternative to buying something made for that purpose. And it was priced really low and like affordable versus like buying something that was made for that purpose.  Mike: Mm. Jessika: And I've trying to find one of those radios for years now, but honestly, it's probably a dead end at this point, and I should just pony up the money to buy actual ghost hunting equipment. I mean, honestly, I should probably, if I want it, like I'm a full ass adult, I can afford the expensive things, maybe.  Mike: We have credit cards now, Jessika. Jessika: Just charge it.I say I can afford the expensive things, like I really can, which isn't actually true.  Mike: All right.[00:07:00]  Jessika: I can afford the mid-level things.  Mike: Yeah. I dunno. We used to have money and then we got air conditioning, and we're poor now. Jessika: I'm safe. I'm squirreling it away, man. Trying to buy a house, it's expensive.  Mike: Yeah. Especially where we live. Jessika: I don't recommend it. Folks.  Mike: Yeah, no, just. Jessika: Just stay away.  Mike: Yeah. Welcome to the Bay Area. The dystopian capitalist apocalypse. Jessika: Everything is overpriced, and on fire.  Mike: We're not making this up. Everything is literally on fire these days.  And, and over priced, but that's just California in general. Yeah. Well, I mean, I had a similar experience to you, in different ways, but like, you know, it was the same brand awareness of Radio Shack. I didn't realize until I was doing the research for this episode, that Radio Shack is actually a hundred years old [00:08:00] as of this year. Jessika: What? How? Mike: Yeah. It was founded in 1921 by these two brothers, Theodore and Milton Deutchman. They set up a mail order business and a single retail location that was focused on providing parts for ham radio, which was a field that was still pretty new back then. And they wound up doing pretty well for a while, but they basically were bankrupt by the early 1960s. But you know, like 40 years is not a bad run. Jessika: Yeah.  Mike: And then they got acquired by the Tandy corporation in 1960 for $300,000. Up until this point, Tandy had been this leather goods company and they were looking to basically get into the business of appealing to hobbyists, which they felt Radio Shack would be able to do. So, in order to do this, Tandy basically performed a complete overhaul of the unprofitable company it had just acquired, and the Wikipedia page has a really solid [00:09:00] summary of what happened. Jessika: Tandy closed Radio Shack's unprofitable mail order business, ended credit purchases, and eliminated many top management positions eating the salespeople, merchandisers and advertisers. The number of items carried was cut from 40,000 to 2,500, as Tandy sought to identify the 20% that represents the 80% of sales and replaced Radio Shacks handful of large stores with many little holes in the wall, large numbers of rented locations, which were easier to close and reopen elsewhere if one location didn't work out.  Mike: Yeah. So basically they were just going for a strategy that made Radio Shack into a much leaner, more nimble operation, which that's like the goal these days, those are kind of the golden buzzwords, but they were actually trying to do that. Charles D. Tandy, who was the guy who actually ran Tandy corporation back then, said that they were [00:10:00] basically not looking for the guy anymore, who wanted to spend his entire paycheck on the sound system, and instead they were looking for customers who wanted to save money by buying cheaper goods and then like improving them through modifications and accessories. So now they were really appealing towards nerds, and aiming at kids who are going to like work on stuff for the science fairs. And honestly it, it worked. I mean, when I was growing up Radio Shack was that store you went to, when you needed some small part a replacement, there was always one nearby. And even if they didn't have a name brand part, they usually had an off-brand version of whatever you needed. And, I never went there thinking that it was going to break the bank. It was always a fairly affordable thing. Jessika: Yeah. Agreed. I can think of like four different locations where they had a Radio Shack, just like in our area here.  Mike: Yeah. And I mean, like, I grew up in San Francisco in the eighties, and they were all over the place.[00:11:00]  So now, what's interesting is that the whole rise of personal computers happened to coincide with this period of success for Radio Shack. The late seventies was when personal computers with microprocessors started to actually be a thing on the consumer market, but typically if you wanted one, you had to build them from a kit. Like you, you physically had to, like, buy the kit and then assemble it, following the instructions, which, I mean, I'm not going to lie. That is terrifying to me. Jessika: That is terrifying. And it's total nerd shit too. They were right.  Mike: Right. Fucking nerds. Jessika: Nerd bait. Mike: Radio Shack actually wound up introducing the TRS 80 in 1977. And it was a game changer for the company because it was one of the first pre-built computers. And it was simultaneously backed by a national retail chain.  It was this super basic computer that sold for $600, which adjusting for inflation is like $2,700 nowadays. [00:12:00]  Jessika: Holy shit. There's no way. There's no way the average family is like, let's get one of those right away. Mike: No, it was, I mean, you know, this was for people who were super enthusiast, or had a lot of disposable income, which the middle-class used to have back then.  Jessika: Different times.  Mike: The salad days. But yeah, so the TRS 80, even though it had a fairly high price point sold like hotcakes, like gangbusters. I found this book and it's called, Priming the Pump: How the TRS 80 Enthusiast Helped Spark the PC Revolution, by Teresa Welsh and David Welsh. It has this really interesting history about that point in time, which, I mean, I'm not going to lie, I was waiting for her to be really dry, but it's full of a lot of really personal stories and anecdotes and it's cool, I really dug it. Basically, when they started manufacturing this computer, they were only expecting to sell 50,000 units. There's this great quote, talking about how [00:13:00] much of a surprise the first TRS computer sales were. Jessika: Both Charles Tandy and John Roach may have been skeptical about such a large. But it turned out to be an underestimation. When the first anniversary of the products came, the company found the, had sold many more than the prediction and taken a whopping 250,000 orders for TRS eighties. Most of them still undelivered. Actually we've seen various numbers in different sources, so we can't verify this number, but they certainly sold considerably more than 50,000. Don French said they received a number of threatening phone calls from people who demanded delivery of their TRS 80 right away. Ooh! Mike: Yeah, so after this huge success, they then ended up following the TRS 80 with the TRS 80 Color in 1980. And basically the first TRS computer was kind of like a full, complete unit with a built-in monitor and everything. [00:14:00] The TRS 80 Color, in turn, was just the computer itself, and then you would plug in a color TV instead of using this built-in monitor. The TRS computers wound up selling well enough that Radio Shack really leaned hard into the computer business, and they even started offering computer camps for pre-teens in the early eighties, which was kind of an extension of that mission that they wanted to appeal to kids who wanted to excel at science fairs, because I mean, you know, those were the new nerds. So if you want to learn more about the TRS computers, by the way, there's this really great site called MatthewReadsTRS80.org. That helped me kind of learn about a lot of this stuff. I'll put it in the show notes, but it's really kind of an interesting walk-through, this particular venue of history. Anyway, this was the high point for Radio Shack, to be perfectly honest. By September of 1982, the company had more than 4,300 stores just in America and [00:15:00] more than 2,000 independent franchises and towns that were not large enough to have a company owned store. So, for comparison, there are fewer GameStops worldwide today than there were Radio Shacks in the early eighties.  Jessika: Wow.  Mike: Like, I realized that GameStop has been having a rough go of it lately, but there's still a lot of them around. Jessika: Yeah. Huh. Mike: And during this period of unmitigated success, that's when the Whizkid's started to show up in comic books. The early eighties were right around the time when computers were starting to get a lot of prominent, you know, quote unquote roles in media. If you're listening to this and you want to learn more, there is a site dedicated to media prominently featuring computers and storylines, and it's called Starring the Computer, that tracks stuff like this all the way back to the fifties. It's an incomplete list, but it's really interesting, and they have a whole section devoted to Tandy computers.[00:16:00] Like, I remember there was an episode of Murder, She Wrote very early on where she moves to New York and there's this whole plot about how she's gotten a computer to write her novels on. And then evidence is falsified with a modem. It's really interesting. And you know, the computer was this suddenly viable object that could play a part in people's everyday lives and could serve as a driving narrative device. But as far as I can tell the first time anyone made comics specifically focusing on educating people about personal computers was when Radio Shack started to do these comic books. And I think that's just because it was such a new thing, especially on the personal consumer market, because, you know, up until recently computers had been these huge things that took up buildings on their own.  Jessika: Yeah. And they had to be, like cooled, professionally, and I mean, it was just this whole thing.  Mike: Yeah. I mean, there [00:17:00] is a movie right now on Disney plus called The Computer That Wore Tennis Shoes.  Jessika: Oh, yeah! Mike: A very early Kurt Russell, and it's one of those things where the whole he's in college and he winds up getting shocked, I think, and there's this whole thing, this computer gets basically downloaded into him. So he has the processing power and knowledge of this computer, but they show you the computer and it like, it is a giant monstrosity of a thing that takes up, I think, an entire lab.  Jessika: It does. I remember that movie. Mike: And I mean, our phones, these days are more powerful than those. So RadioShack started making comics in 1971. They were putting out a series of educational comics called the science fair story of electronics via the Radio Shack education comic book program. But, then in 1980, they pivoted and they started giving away these new comics in stores. You could also, [00:18:00] if you were a teacher, you could send in a request to Radio Shack on school letterhead and get a free pack of 50.  Jessika: Oh, wow. Mike: And yeah, like, you know, they were really pushing that hard because these comics were educational, but they were also advertisements.  Jessika: Very much so. Oh, that was something I messaged you earlier,  was like, wow. I was reading just an ad there, wasn't I?  Mike: But, I mean, I will say they were, they were educational.  Jessika: Yeah, absolutely.  Mike: Yeah, so the Superman Radio Shack giveaway comics starred the aforementioned Whiz Kids, Alec and Shanna, along with their teacher Mrs. Wilson, but for the first three issues, which were published in 1980, 81 and 82, they also starred Superman and other characters from the DC Universe.  Jessika: I need to correct you for a second, because you said Mrs. Wilson, and it definitely was Ms. Wilson.  Mike: Oh, I'm sorry. That's right.  Jessika: It was Ms. Wilson, and I think that will come into play [00:19:00] later.  Mike: That is true. She did not have a ring on her finger. Jessika: She did not. She looked a little close to all the superheroes that waltzed right up in there, half naked into her classroom.  Mike: I mean, can ya blame her? Jessika: No, she was hot too.  Mike: Right? We're going to talk about each of these specific issues, but first up is the Computer That Saved Metropolis, which was published in July of 1980. So, even though this was a promotional giveaway, DC committed some pretty serious talent to the book. The first two issues were written by Cary Bates, who was this long-term writer for DC. He wrote a ton of action comics, Superman, and the New Adventures of Superboy, as well as being the head script writer for the live action Superboy series in the 1980s that we discussed a couple episodes back.  Jessika: Totally. Mike: He also worked as a script writer for various cartoons, including Gem and Gargoyles.  Jessika: Oh, hell yeah.  Mike: Right. [00:20:00] But then also his name might sound familiar to some people listening to the show because we mentioned him on the New Guardians episode where, it turns out he wrote issues two through 12 of the New Guardians. The art for this issue, meanwhile, was handled by Jim Starlin and Dick Giordano. Both of them are pretty big deals too. Starlin became a big name in comics during the seventies. He garnered a lot of acclaim for his cosmic space opera stories. He co-created characters like Shang-Chi and Thanos. Giordano in turn was an artist who had recently come back to DC comics and was serving as the Batman editor at the time. He actually got promoted shortly after this to be the company's managing editor in 1981. And then he was promoted again to executive editor in 83, and then he stayed with the company until the mid nineties when he retired, after his wife died. And then, aside from being a giveaway issue, this comic actually ran as a backup story in the July, 1980 ssues for Action [00:21:00] Comics, Legion of Superheroes, House of Mystery and Superboy. So Superman schilling Radio Shack computers, and forcing children to perform complex math for him, and definitely, probably schtupping Ms. Wilson, like, I think we need to agree that, that those two totally smashed. Jessika: Oh, absolutely. And I have my theories about her and Supergirl as well.  Mike: Yeah. Yeah.  Jessika: They had a moment.  Mike: Right? Jessika: We both took the same picture of that same shot and I sent it to you and you were like, no way. Mike: I thought that was so funny.  Jessika: Don't worry, we'll post that one.  Mike: I, oh God. Like, I just, that was great. It was like great minds think alike. But yeah, all of this is officially a canon part of DC comics lore, which is wild. Like [00:22:00]  Jessika: It's bat shit bananas.  Mike: Yeah. Now weirdly it looks like this is the only issue that actually made it into other DC comics. So, you know, the other two or their own standalone things. And aren't officially cannon, I guess. All right. How would you describe the 1980 issue? The Computers That Saved Metropolis? Jessika: Well, these were like both very advertisey and complex at the same time in their narrative, which was interesting. So, this first one, I'm going to give you a little bit of backstory about these bitches. I say these bitches, because I'm going to be talking about a whole classroom full of children. So I obviously really like children. I have a bachelor's in French and everyone's like, you should teach. And I'm like, no, I shouldn't.  Mike: Oh, oh no. Let's talk about that for a sec. I majored in history my first time through college, and everyone also said I should teach. And I was like, I fucking hate [00:23:00] children. I worked at Disneyland it poisoned me again. And don't get me wrong. I have, I have two stepchildren now. I love them. I would die for them. They're great. But kids in general, not a fan. They're sociopathic little monsters. Jessika: Mm hmm. So the comic starts off with Superman doing patrols around Metropolis, and apparently he just does that. And he just jets off to a sixth grade classroom at the whim of Ms. Wilson.  Mike: I have my own theory about this. Jessika: Oh my goodness. He's supposed to be a guest teacher about computers, apparently. Like, First of all, for some reason, along with his super abilities, he's also a super computer genius. And is he accredited? Like is he allowed to be teaching students?  Mike: No. Okay. There, there are two things to discuss here. So you have [00:24:00] to remember that Superman from the Golden Age through the modern age was largely a weird sci-fi series where the main character was this alien who had all these powers that constantly changed. There wasn't really any editorial control until they streamlined it with Crisis on Infinite Earths. But on top of that, he was generally shown to be an amazing genius, like just whenever they needed it. But ,he built the Superman robots. He. I can't remember if he made the Phantom Zone Projector or if the Phantom Zone Projector was on artifact from Krypton, he was constantly trying to restore the city of Kandor, which was basically shrunk down to the size of a bottle, and it was a Kryptonian city, to restore it to its full size. Like in that issue of Super Boy, we read, he like put all those chemicals together and created the pools that granted the dogs, various powers.  Jessika: Yeah, no, I guess you're, I guess he's always been [00:25:00] smart.  Mike: Yeah. But then the other thing is that Superman is a little bit too earnest in this issue. Like, he shows up exactly on time. And then he is clearly trying to impress these kids to make a good impression with Ms. Wilson. And everything about this reeks of a dude who had a one night stand and is now desperate to hook up again. So what he's doing is he's trying to prove that A) he is reliable and B) he is good with kids. Jessika: Yep. No, that's totally how it felt.  Mike: I'm not speaking from experience. Jessika: Oh, so anyway, Superman creepily knows all the students' names, I guess, because he used his x-ray vision to look at the teacher's seating chart, even though that's not how x-rays work. That's always bothered me. I'm sorry, we don't have time for this.  Mike: [00:26:00] Thomas Edison would like a word. Jessika: Seriously. Also, I have to mention that the whole class was bored as fuck even after Sups flew in. And I don't know about you, but every kid I knew, wanted to know about computers and have a turn on the computer when we got them in the library at school or when someone got one at home.  Mike: Oh, yeah. Jessika: So the idea that one of the kids in his class is being dismissive of the whole idea of not doing normal schoolwork and just doing computer class instead with fucking Superman of all people. It's just ridiculous.  Mike: Oh yeah. And that kid actively shit talked Superman repeatedly.  Jessika: Oh, he's a shit heal. Oh. And he still gets to be the fucking like, protagonist. Fuck. Mike: Oh, it was so funny. I like, my favorite was when he beats Superman at a math problem later on and like the shit talking starts immediately, and I'm like, my dude, this is possibly not a good move to irritate a guy who could literally vaporize you with a [00:27:00] glare. Jessika: That's just it. That is just it. Yeah. No. Why would you try to piss this guy off? And then Shanna's like, Ooh, Superman. You better tell him. I was like, dude, Shanna, you, you need to shut the fuck up immediately and not goad this situation.  Mike: You know, that was probably the most realistic part of this entire comic, because speaking as someone that lives with an 11 year old, they are shit stirrers. Jessika: Oh my gosh. So, Supes takes the kids up to the roof because of course he does, and he proceeds to give the class some very long-winded exposition about the history of computers and their size and what they do and how they've evolved from the first computers, and moving into how they're used in society today from space travel to transistor radios, which what a time capsule of a callout.  Mike: [00:28:00] Yeah. Jessika: This whole thing was a whole time capsule.  Mike: Yeah. Very much is. Jessika: Of course, there was also some lovely product placement throughout and some not-so-subtle comments on affordability versus common household items. Tangent that always cracked me up to say, this computer is less expensive than a TV. Well, okay, but maybe I need a TV and I don't need a computer. They do vastly different things, or they did at that point.  Mike: Yeah. Jessika: It kind of reminds me of saying like this China set costs less than a month of gross. Okay, well, I need to eat and I don't necessarily need a China set, so.  Mike: Yeah, I mean, he was hard selling those kids. Jessika: Oh yeah. He was like, you should ask your parents to go out and buy you one.  Mike: Yup. Jessika: So, of course, Supes hears with his super hearing a tornado and he like jets the fuck out of there. And, he defeats it by [00:29:00] blowing the wind or something like that. And then he feels all sick and shit, and comes across a villain named Major Disaster who, you know, just as his name implies, causes quote unquote natural disasters like there's floods and shit. It was a little ridiculous.  Mike: Yeah, he was always kind of like a C- to D-list villain who would use weapons and equipment to make natural disasters. My knowledge of this character is hazy at best, but I think eventually he gained the ability to manipulate probability. He didn't appear a lot and he's been dead for a while, I think. Cause I remember him showing up as a zombie in Blackest Night. Jessika: Oh.  Mike: But, I mean, I remember reading this stuff and I was like, this is kind of a cool, like off-the-wall villain. I dig him. You know, I certainly liked them a lot better than other villains that I've seen in Superman books where it's like, you know, generic alien warlord number five. Jessika: Seriously. Well, and when I read the name, Major Disaster, I was like, [00:30:00] same, girl. So, of course Superman needs the help of these children that he like, makes them perform these, like, high-stress situational calculations on the computer for him. Instead of like asking the adult he's banging in the room. Mike: I mean. Jessika: Honestly, come on, like, get the adults involved, like, Alec and Shanna don't need to save the day. They're supposed to be in sixth grade, even though they look way older than that. Mike: Like, yeah, they looked like kind of like eighth or ninth graders. Like they were a little bit older, it seemed.  Jessika: The second one, they looked older than that, they looked like they were teenagers in the second one, for some reason, I was like, what's that? And then the third one, they got young again. And I was like, I don't know what's happening with you guys, but. Mike: Yeah. I mean, I will say that I was willing to believe that Alec was in sixth grade just because he had that awful fucking bowl haircut that like.  Jessika: My brother had that.  Mike: Right. Yeah. But [00:31:00] when did he stop having it? Jessika: No, no, you're right. Probably after he was like in, probably after middle school.  Mike: Yeah. It's, you know, it's that thing where suddenly you realize, oh, I can go to a barber instead of having my parents cut my hair.  Jessika: Oh. So the kids basically do a bunch of calculations, and they double check each other's work by doing the same calculation on two separate computers that Supes and flown in prior and just left there. Apparently.  Mike: Yeah. And there's a whole thing about how Major Disaster had knocked out all the other computers in town, but he didn't know about these two personal computers because personal computers were a new thing. And that's the other reason that they're the ones who were performing the calculations and then they're on radio headsets with Superman providing this information. Jessika: I still say you're in a school that has way more adults than just the one standing in that room, and even that one's not involved. So. Mike: I mean, well, and the other thing is that the math equations that he's throwing at them are like this jet is falling out of the sky at this speed. [00:32:00] The wind is this fast. They're going at this angle. How fast do I need to go to catch them without doing damage to the plane or the people inside. And it's like, first of all, of course, yes, as you said, it's high stress, but second, like I still don't know how to do that math equation. I don't know how these sixth graders did because they looked like they were in a pretty shitty school that Superman made worse at one point when he liked tunneled up through the floor and just left a giant hole. Jessika: He was like, I'll fix that later.  Mike: Sure you will, sure you will, Clark. Jessika: It's awful. Uh. So he finally of course finds the villain, defeats him, whatever. Then the kids are hailed as heroes and as a reward, I guess they get to be at a Radio Shack commercial about the computers they used. I mean, cool. I guess.  Mike: Yeah. It was kind of a, a, meh ending, but, but yeah. Like, I dunno. Did you [00:33:00] like the issue overall? I'm curious. Jessika: It got really in the weeds playing up the computer aspects, which okay. I get it. You know, again, I get it. This is an advertisement, but dude, snooze fest, I put it down a few times and had to pick it back up, during those computer exposition parts. And you know, I'm slightly bothered by a vague plot line, but all in all, like it was, it was fine.  Mike: Yeah. Jessika: To use your line.  Mike: Yeah. I mean, reading through it, some of the computer history stuff I thought was actually pretty interesting  Jessika: Yeah. Yeah.  Mike: Like, when they went up on the roof and he was saying, you know, so the space that we're sending in actually is the size of what computers used to fill. And yeah, it does get a little too in the weeds because they're trying to get a little too much exposition in there at the same time. I felt like overall it walked a relatively fine line of providing action that was kind of [00:34:00] interesting. And, and the plot line of, oh, well, yeah, his powers were on the fritz because there was microscopic kryptonite particles in the tornado and he inhaled them when he was getting ready to blow it out. Like, I thought that actually was surprisingly well thought out for basically a licensed advertisement. You know, this was, this was effectively a full length version of one of those like hostess, Twinkies ads that they used to do.  Jessika: Right?  Mike: Yeah. But like, I didn't hate it. I found it charming. Jessika: It had its moments.  Mike: Yeah. I'm not going to lie, I found the undeniable sexual attention between Superman and the kid's teacher really entertaining. Jessika: Yeah, definitely it was palpable. I thought it was even funnier too, that the kids were even, like Ms. Wilson, how do you know Superman?  Mike: And she doesn't answer! Jessika: And she was like, She like side eyes.[00:35:00] How do I know Superman?…Biblically.  Mike: Well, and that was the funny thing was when we were talking about this ahead of the episode, I was like, so yeah, they, they totally smashed, right? Like, like that's not up for debate. Jessika: No, it's really not. It happened.  Mike: All right. let's move on to the next issue. So. Clearly, this was a successful marketing tool because in 1981, DC and Radio Shack released a brand new book that was called Victory By Computer. So this time the main story was illustrated by a couple of legendary artists. There was Curt Swan and Vince Colletta. Coletta started as an artist and anchor from the Silver Age of comics. He frequently collaborated with Jack Kirby who is known as, you know, the king of comic books, and a lot of folks considered their run on Thor to be the definitive take on the character.  Kurt Swan's involvement, on the other hand, is especially noteworthy. [00:36:00] He is considered by many comic book artists to be the Superman artist. He started penciling Superman and Superboy comics in the late forties. And he didn't stop until DC put them out to pasture in the mid eighties because they were rebooting Superman via Crisis on Infinite Earths.  Arlen Schumer, who's this major comic book historian, says Swan penciled over 19,000 covers and pages of interior art for Superman comics.  Jessika: Whoa! Mike: Yeah. Like again, they were putting some serious talent behind these books. Jessika: They were pumping out a lot of content, to be fair.  Mike: Yeah. How would you summarize Victory By Computer? Jessika: We find ourselves, yet again at the elementary school, I put in heavy quotations of kids that look like they're about 17 years old, this issue. So Shanna and smartass Alec are back at it. This time, Supergirl joins the class to [00:37:00] teach them about the pocket computer. What a fucking throwback.  Mike: Like, that's something that we need to explain. Like the pocket computer was, basically kind of like a smart calculator that could perform basic functions and had a little keyboard in there. And I don't know how much they sold for, but they couldn't have been cheap. Jessika: I can't imagine so, yeah. Well, and by the way, at this point in the scene where Supergirl pulls out, her pocket computer, she pulls out of a pocket on her cape. So canonically, there are pockets in the capes. Mike: Yeah. They can't get them on the rest of their costume, but they can get them in their capes.  Jessika: Which means that there's just stuff like weighing down the cape, so it shouldn't even be moving like it does.  Mike: I remember in an early issue of Superman, the eighties series that John Byrne was doing, there is a bit where he stops by a balloon vendor because he's got a drone pursuing him and he winds up like [00:38:00] thinking, oh, it's lucky that I always carry a few spare dollars in like my belt buckle because he had that yellow belt back then, which side note I miss the yellow belt. I don't know if it's back, cause I haven't read any Superman comics for a while, but they got rid of it for quite some time. Like, I mean, you know, it's the Henry Cavill look now or it's the full blue suit. I miss the red trunks in the yellow belt. Jessika: Yeah. the good old days. Mike: Yeah. Jessika: So Supergirl decides to use her super powers to show the class they are able to find information on the TRS 80's as fast as she was able to find it, like physically with her super powers looking for it. And it was like, okay, sure.  Mike: Yeah.  Jessika: When an odd comparison, but fine.  Mike: Yeah, it was really weird, there was a bit where they, like, it almost felt like they were hacking into the newsfeed of, I think the Daily Planet to get headlines, even though I'm sorry, but like, come on really, you think that a [00:39:00] print journalistic outlet is going to have top of the line technology back then come on. Jessika: No they're not putting any of that into a computer. They're still handwriting everything.  Mike: Yes. I think back then they were still using, the electric typewriter that had like the built-in, it was quote unquote memory, but it was, you know, not really. Jessika: Not as we know it now, at least. And there was some definite sexual tension with Ms. Wilson at Supergirl as well. We will post the picture. Um.  Mike: Right. It's this whole bit where Supergirl is like, oh, don't worry. I'm a school teacher in my secret identity. And I'm like, I don't know. Like, Are you just trying to impress her with this? What's the end goal of revealing this crucial information about your secret identity, Supergirl? Jessika: I know, right. She's just trying to connect with another human. She's like I'm also a school teacher. We should talk about it over dinner sometime.  Mike: And then maybe move in together after three weeks of dating, and adopt three cats. Jessika: Oh, my gosh. So, Super girl basically [00:40:00] teaches the class and then she I'll bet she just left those fucking pocket computers too, because you know, just like Superman just left the computers there. He was like, have fun kids.  Mike: Okay. Yeah, but here's the thing, like, you really think that some middle school kids or elementary school kids, however old they fucking are. You really think that they're going to sit there and try to steal the computers that the literal alien gods from other planets dropped off and taught them about? Jessika: Oh, I'm not, I'm not worried. Oh, that's funny. Yeah, no, I'm not worried about them stealing it. I'm just like Superman just apparently has like the extra spending cash that he can just like drop off two computers to a school and just like fuck off. Like really?  Mike: No, I mean, I, I viewed it the other way of just like, they're like, they're not worried about it. They're like, yeah. We'll, we'll get those back. Don't worry.  Jessika: Oh, so Supergirl apparently gets asked to go on [00:41:00] patrol by Superman and she spots something fishy. And so she goes to check it out, but it was a trap, of course. Mike: Yeah, but I mean, it wasn't even a very good trap. Jessika: Is a stupid trap. It was like, if you're a superhero and you happen to get curious, because you happen to be going near this location, maybe. And she like fell right into maybe a four foot by four foot hole in the ground. So I'm not really sure how that worked either. They just were like, nah, she's going to fall right here.  Mike: Yeah. Like she fell through the skylight after getting hit with like a blast of red sun radiation, or whatever it is.  Jessika: You know what it was, they used their TRS 80 to calculate where she was going to fall. So she gets stuck in what's basically like, it's like a lounge. It's like somebody's living room, and they have a computer there with a phone. So it's like, they weren't even trying that hard to keep her [00:42:00] there.  Mike: No, it was, it was absolutely the, like what a seventies swinger house looks like in all the movies that we see now where you're just like, oh, oh, okay. Jessika: It basically had a conversation pit.  Mike: Yeah. Jessika: Yeah. So of course, she remembers the phone number from Ms. Wilson's classroom. Mike: Yeah, because the rotary phone had the phone number printed on the front of it, because that was a thing that used to happen. Jessika: I feel like that's a little more explaining than she needed to give. I think she is making up for the fact that she just knows that number by heart.  Mike: I was going to say, I think she really wanted to get Mrs. Wilson's phone number, and then it just happened to actually be helpful in a way other than getting her a date. Jessika: Gosh, Ms. Wilson, man. And canonically bisexual? Question mark? Mike: I don't see why not. I think we can, I think we can [00:43:00] officially declare it. Jessika: Someone's going to @ us, I hope they do. So at any rate, she gets in touch with the class. She makes them do all these weird wacky calculations, has some get in touch with Superman. And by the time Superman gets there, like she's gotten out of it because she also used the computer to find out that there were like underground tunnels. And so she's like, I'll just walk out of these tunnels.  Mike: Yeah, basically it turns out it was like an old mob hide out and the students were able to look up some articles, which again, like, I don't know, because I was born in 81 and I don't have a good idea of what computer and internet adjacent technology was like back then. But they apparently look up articles about this hideout that got busted and they learned from the articles that there were underground tunnels that. Whatever, it was dumb, they don't even show her getting out. It was dumb. Jessika: No, she's just like walking out afterwards and Superman's, like, [00:44:00] oh, I was here to save you. And she's like, I just took the tunnels dude. And then like the bad guys are just, they just happened to be driving by. So they were like, well, let's just go get the bad guys. What do you think? It looks like, oh those are Lex Luther's dudes. Let's just go get the bad guys.  Mike: Yeah. And there's a whole thing where like, Lex Luther has announced from jail that like Superman is going to break him out and it's a much looser plot than the first issue was. Like the first issue, there was like, I felt like a much tighter story, you know, in between the educational bits, this one, it felt like they were kind of stretching to figure out a way to connect all this stuff. Jessika: For sure. Yes. Mike: Yeah. Yeah. So I think we can safely say that this was not our favorite of three books. Jessika: No, this one was so ridiculous. I mean, I loved the heavy, heavy [00:45:00] gay overtones. Mike: I mean, when do we not love the heavy gay overtones? Come on. Jessika: It's the agenda after all: brunch for everyone.  Mike: Yeah. So like, do you have any final thoughts on this, or should we move on to the last of the three books? Jessika: Ugh. That's just once mosey.  Mike: Okay. All right. So 83 was when we got the final book, which is the Computer Masters of Metropolis. So, this time Paul Kupperberg wrote the script for the comic. Kupperberg, he's not exactly a household name in terms of comic books, but he is actually pretty prolific. He's written over a thousand comics during his time as a writer, including the first appearance of He-Man and then he wrote the subsequent Masters at the Universities for DC. Yeah, like, you know, so I've read some of his stuff and I didn't even realize it. Also like, this is actually my favorite factoid about him. He served as the senior editor of the Weekly World News shortly [00:46:00] before it got shut down in 2007. Jessika: What? Mike: Yeah. And like that automatically makes me like the dude, because the Weekly World News was one of my favorite things when I was in college, and because I was so good at Photoshop in high school and college, and I was interested in journalism, but I also love the weird stuff, I actually wanted to apply to the weekly world news for a job just for like a little while. And be like, yeah, like I Photoshop pictures of bat boy. Like, I really was hoping that that would be a thing, and then they shut down right after I graduated college and broke my cold black heart. Jessika: It's a damn shame.  Mike: But yeah. So, meanwhile, the art was handled again by Curt Swan and then he was also assisted by Frank Chiaramonte. Chiaramonte was Swan's regular anchor on the main Superman book from 1978 to 82. And then this is one of his last books that he worked on because he died really young in January of [00:47:00] 83. He was only 40 years old. Like.  Jessika: Oh.  Mike: Yeah, it's really weird too. I was trying to figure out what happened and all I could find was that just, he died young. But, he was regarded pretty well and he worked on a lot of stuff. So I think if he hadn't died, he probably would've, you know, gone on to great things. But the Computer Masters of Metropolis doesn't have a publish date other than 1982, which means it came out less than a year before his death, because he died in January of 83.  Jessika: Oh, dang.  Mike: Yeah. All right. So what happened in the Computer Masters of Metropolis?  Jessika: So, those are some lucky kids studying at whatever outskirts elementary school this is. Cause it's not in Metropolis proper, it's like in the suburbs of Metropolis somewhere.  Mike: Yeah. You know, it's superhero-adjacent to the city. Jessika: Yeah. Yeah. Right. And again, not sure why Ms. Wilson seems to be on really, really [00:48:00] friendly terms with all the superheroes in the area, but Wonder Woman shows up to take them to the World's Fair, which of course is being held in Metropolis.  Mike: Yeah. Which I mean, okay. Why, why not?  Jessika: Exactly. Meanwhile, Lex Luther was salty about being denied entry for an exhibit for the World's Fair because the organizers didn't want to encourage his villainy.  Mike: It's so good. It's so good. Jessika: And so Luther decides to try to blackmail a way in, but that didn't work. So, of course he decides the thing to do is to threaten, to like completely destroy the fair, and ultimately creates another red solar radiation trap. This time, luring Superman into a room, rigged with explosives and bathed in red solar radiation, dun, dun, dun. So once again, there are computers in the room, I think, so. So he reaches out to [00:49:00] Alec and Shanna who are told that Wonder Woman should also be at the fair and to page page her. And she's basically like, okay, why are children paging me right now? But finds out that Superman is being held at the plantarium. She lassos the whole damn building and whips it around and it somehow deactivates the red solar radiation beam? Question mark? Mike: I don't know, man, I was pretty checked out when I was reading this. Like. They reused a lot of the same stuff, too. Like the same art where they were showing the computer chip, getting threaded through the needle, the bit where the kids are all walking on the giant demo version of the TRS,  Jessika: Oh, and those kids were being very nice because they acted surprised and very impressed to see that same damn exhibit for a second time.  Mike: Yeah. Which previously had showed up in the last issue. And I mean, like, it was a lot more exposition this time around too.  Jessika: It was.  Mike: [00:50:00] Anyway, sorry. Jessika: No, not at all. So Superman escapes and they catch Luther and the day is saved. And the end scenes were particularly silly. The mayor I'm assuming goes to thank Wonder Woman for saving the day. And she's like, but also these children, who just happened to be standing on the stage, like right behind her anyway, like the mayor, just, wasn't going to say anything about those kids on the stage, too, apparently. And they had a computer on stage with them? They were like, and this is the computer, let it hold the key too. And you got to know that like both Wonder Woman and Superman have to have entire rooms dedicated to the key to Metropolis that they get every time they save some damn building or something, they're all like, chuck another one in there. No, no, no. You kids keep that one.  Mike: It's fine. I've got 12 at home that are much nicer. Jessika: They're hanging on a wall around in a study.  Mike: They just use them as like coat racks. Jessika: [00:51:00] So Alec and Shanna, once again, saved the day, I guess.  Mike: Yeah, I mean, this was actually my least favorite of the three comics, because again, it was recycling art or, or using very similar art. It was making a lot of the same points, but it felt a lot more telling, not showing. And while I was really happy to see Lex Luther being next level petty, which, these days, you know, Lex Luther is a billionaire CEO, scientist who also has like armies of underlings performing super science for him that he's able to utilize. He's basically he is a more-  Jessika: Jeff Bezos.  Mike: Yeah, He is He is a, I was going to say, he's just, he's a more nakedly transparent, Jeff Bezos.  Jessika: Oh, you actually were going to say that. I'm sorry. I stole that right from out from under you. Mike: [00:52:00] No. I mean like it's, I'm sorry, like Jeff Bezos exploits his workers and use the money that he got from that to take a rocket ship and play astronaut, which side note, one of my favorite things about that entire story is that NASA at the last minute redefined, I think it was NASA, redefined what constitutes the definition of an astronaut, so he couldn't get an astronaut patch or pin. An astronaut pin, I think. Jessika: Which, again, the level of petty, but this is what I need. This is what I need to see, because it can't always be fucking Lex Luther winning.  Mike: Yeah. But anyway, like I really appreciated that we got to see Lex Luther being a super villain goon, like very flamboyant, flying around with his own little personal jet pack or jet boots, whatever they were like, they were like, it was like little rockets that he had attached to like his. I'm I'm struggling to remember if it was on his boots or on his waist. It was one or the other, right? Jessika: Yeah, I think it was [00:53:00] on his, I think you're right about the boots. And then he also had those fancy power gauntlets.  Mike: Yeah. And I mean, the other thing is back in this era, Lex Luther actually had a couple of different costumes that he wore that were very colorful and over-the-top, and it was like green and purple. So it kind of was that, that Joker color motif again, you know, it was really striking. And so he had that outfit of kind of the purple and green spandex that we saw in this issue. But then he also had this really baller set of green power armor that he used to really make Superman's life miserable for awhile. Like I said, after 1983, Radio Shack stopped with the Superman comics, but they didn't actually stop making comics. They kept on doing these comics with the Whiz Kids, but they instead moved over to Archie comic publications. I haven't been able to find out why the partnership's stopped. There's very little actual [00:54:00] documentation about these comics outside of a bunch of articles saying, oh yeah, they happened. Like they were a thing. They were dumb. And then pretty much all I've been able to find otherwise is people selling them. Cause there's still a lot of them around. And if you're looking for a fun piece of comic book history, these aren't very expensive, even in mint condition. That said the Tandy brand was starting to fall out of popularity by 83. For some perspective, it's estimated that Tandy controlled up to 60% of the personal computer market in the late seventies, which is like an astronomical market share. However, and this is from an article by a guy named Ron White, that he wrote for a magazine called 80 Micro in 1987, and you can now find it on a site called Vintage is the New Old, and we'll put this in the show notes again, Tandy's market share was down to 25% by 86. So it's a pretty fast fall from grace. Jessika: Yeah.  Mike: And then, even though Archie was publishing the comics, [00:55:00] none of the Archie characters actually showed up in any of these books with the Whiz Kids, although Radio Shack did publish Archie in the History of Electronics separately.  Jessika: Oh. Mike: Like, yeah. But based on that, my guess is that Radio Shack was looking to save some cash and Archie was probably a much better deal. I'm guessing it costs a lot more to license DC superheroes than it does to just make a comic without any big name characters. Jessika: Oh, I am sure.  Mike: Yeah. And then shortly after Archie took over the publication duties, the TRS computer line got rebranded to the Tandy computer. So it makes sense that the comic was rebranded from the TRS Whiz Kid's to the Tandy computer Whiz Kids. And that's actually, when I first became aware of this whole venture, because Nostalgia Alley, which is the local retro game store up in Petaluma, has a copy of one of the Tandy Whiz Kids comics on the shelf behind the counter. And so I [00:56:00] spotted that one time and I was talking to Jason, the owner, and he let me check it out for a couple of minutes. And that's when I started looking into this whole thing, which, per usual, led us down a rabbit hole. Jessika: Love these rabbit holes of ours.  Mike: Yeah, they're fun. Anyway, the Tandi Whiz Kid's comics kept on coming out until 1992. And based on what I understand, they featured the Whiz Kids solving crimes, using Tandy computers and other Radio Shack products. I haven't read them. I do really want to track down a copy of the Computer that Said No To Drugs though. Jessika: Who was offering computers drugs? They are expensive! Mike: I, I don't know. I'm really curious about everything about that. Jessika: Hey man, you want to hit this? It's just a fucking computer. And it's like, what are you talking about, dude?  Mike: Oh, I'm having flashbacks now of that episode of, uh, Futurama where Bender gets hooked on electricity. Jessika: Oh, hahahaha. [00:57:00]  Mike: They keep on referring to it as jacking on anyway. Yeah. But the early nineties were when things really started to go downhill for Radio Shack and they never really stopped, because stores like Best Buy and Walmart just started to really eat their lunch. And then, it got to the point where they've had to declare bankruptcy twice in the past five years or so. Like they also declared Nick Cannon as their chief creative officer around the time of the first bankruptcy. Yeah. And now they've been bought by some shady sounding company out of Florida. So the brand is still around, but it's not really the company that we grew up with. And I don't know, I'm honestly not sure what's worse, like partnering with Nick Cannon, or being this pale reflection of your former glory. They both sound pretty bad. Jessika: Yeah.  Mike: But yeah, that's the story about Superman, and how he wound up acting as a computer salesman for [00:58:00] a couple of years. You got any final thoughts? Jessika: So I'm just shaking my head over here. Like my nostrils are flaring.  Mike: How was that different from any other conversation I lead though? Jessika: I literally prepare myself for these, cause I'm like, all right, you can get angry, but don't get too angry. My secret is I'm always angry.  Mike: Dun dun dun. Jessika: Hmm. So you know, it's really interesting to see how very far we've come since these issues came out in the early eighties. Like, we're sitting here on small laptops, I've got a phone and a tablet right here in front of me as well, and you and I are basically sitting across from each other, having a conversation, even though we're not even in the same physical location.  Mike: Yeah. Jessika: It blows my mind how amazing things like high speed trains and basic information [00:59:00] searches seemed back then, when they're so commonplace now. Like, I seriously Google everything. I would be nowhere without Google.  Mike: Yeah. My career is because of the internet. Jessika: Yeah. Yours, yours sure, is absolutely that's, yeah. That's a wild thing to think about too. And it's also wild to think about how much more advanced technology has become even in just, I had to do the calculations 40 years time, which I about had a panic attack when I mathed that out because. Ha ha ha. We're almost 40. Mike: Yep. Actually this episode is going to air right around the time that I'm going to be turning 40. Jessika: Yup. Happy birthday, to Mike.  Mike: Thanks, I hate it.  Jessika: No, Yeah. Right. At least you're not my mom giving my dad a [01:00:00] vulture piñata for his 40th birthday. Mike: No, Sarah has declared that she wants my 40th birthday to be a super soft birthday, which if you've ever watched Letterkenny.  Jessika: Yes! I was hoping You were going to say that. There has to be a unicorn.  Mike: I know, I think it's going to be put on hold until we're all vaccinated, but we might do a belated super soft birthday. Jessika: Yeah, okay. I figured you guys are going to have a family super soft birthday. But, if you want to have a super soft after birthday, when things clear up, I am, I am there and I will be eating some lovely pink frosted cupcakes with you.  Mike: You're on, big shoots. So we are now at the point of the episode where we're going to wrap things up with our Brain Wrinkles, which is when we discussed the one thing that is comics or comics adjacent that we just can't get out of our head. So you want to start things off? Jessika: Oh sure. [01:01:00] As I promised, I just finished watching the latest season of The Boys, which is season two. Holy shit. Holy fucking shit. That show is bat shit wild. Mike: Yeah.  Jessika: And what's been sticking in my head is the abuse dynamic between Homelander and mean, anybody he deals with, really? Mike: I was gonna say, everybody? Jessika: Yeah. And it's so interesting, cause as he was growing up, he was taught that not only is he more powerful than any person, he has been told that he is special and is entitled to do whatever pleases him. Which is really scary to see him manipulating others, using fear as a motivator to encourage them to comply. And honestly, the reason it scares me the most is just the powerlessness that these people, and most often women, are terrified into just following through with Homelander's whims.  Mike: Yeah. yeah. There's a lot of really [01:02:00] uncomfortable moments in that show. But I like the show, which I didn't expect. Jessika: Well, I do like that it's putting a spotlight onto that dynamic, cause that's a dynamic that we show is very one-sided, usually a little victim blamey.  Mike: Mmhmm.  Jessika: You know, why didn't she just leave kind of a narrative, which we all know it's not that easy.  Mike: Yeah. Jessika: And I think this is a really good example of why it's not that easy, in a very powerful way. And, it does remind me of people who are stuck in abusive households or relationships and are in different ways, powerless to leave their situations. So, hopefully it sparks some conversation.  Mike: Yeah. Jessika: Well, but what about you?  Mike: Mine is also TV related, but it's not quite as topical as your thoughts. So, I actually was trying to show my stepson[01:03:00] some X-Men cartoons the other day. And as we started to watch the first episode of Wolverine and the X-Men, he started to ask me all these questions about who the different characters were, because they basically start the show off assuming that the audience knows who all of the X-Men are, because at the time when it launched, the X-Men were a major brand, and then Disney acquired Marvel right before this. And then, they kind of made mutants personas, non grata, and, the mutants have not been featured in Disney programming up until the point where basically for the past 10 years, major media representation for kids of characters, like the X-Men, aren't all that common. And so it was just kind of a really thoughtful moment for me, where I realized I had to start them over from the beginning with an earlier X-Men cartoon, where he gets all these introductions. And I think there's going to be this generation that is going to grow up learning who the X-Men are a lot later than a lot of us [01:04:00] did. Like I knew all of the X-Men by the age of nine and I suspect. Jessika: Oh, yeah. Mike: Yeah. And so I think it's going to be really interesting to watch a generation of teenagers discover the X-Men really for the first time outside of, you know, Wolverine and Deadpool, because everybody knows who they are. Jessika: Yeah, of course. Hm. Mike: But yeah.  Jessika: That's wild.  Mike: Yeah. It's kind of one of those surreal moments of realization. Yeah.  Jessika: Hmm.  Mike: So, in two weeks we will be back with our next installment of the Sandman book club, which is going to be volumes three and four. And then until then we'll see you in the stacks. Thanks for listening to Ten Cent Takes. Accessibility is important to us, so text transcriptions of each of our published episodes can be found on our website.  Mike: This episode was hosted by Jessika Frazer and Mike Thompson written by Mike Thompson, and edited by Jessika Frazer. Our intro theme was written and performed by Jared Emerson Johnson of Bay Area Sound, our credits and transition music is Pursuit of Life by Evan [01:05:00] MacDonald, and was purchased with a standard license from Premium Beat. Our banner graphics were designed by Sarah Frank, who you can find on Instagram as @lookmomdraws. Jessika: If you'd like to get in touch with us, ask us questions, or tell us about how we got something wrong, please head over to tencenttakes.com or shoot an email to tencenttakes@gmail.com. You can also find us on Twitter; the official podcast account is tencenttakes. Jessika is jessikawitha, and Jessika spelled with a K, and Mike is vansau, V a N S a U.  Mike: If you'd like to support us, be sure to download, rate and review wherever you listen. And if you like, what you hear, tell your friends. Jessika: Stay safe out there.  Mike: And support your local comic shop. Lfa66XA001sq2SOSeOU7

Fastest Known Podcast
Bethany Garretson: "FKTs have become the perfect niche!" - #156

Fastest Known Podcast

Play Episode Listen Later Sep 24, 2021 36:57


Bethany wrote to us: "One year ago, Katlin Rhodes and I came together and became the first women to complete the 46 unsupported thru-hike. That summer was my first with Strava and a GPS watch. She and I have learned a lot in one year and have combined for 23 FKTS, going after some big and small. From the thru-hike, I began ambassador work with SheJumps, a national non-profit that promotes more women and girls to get outside. I think we'd make a cool podcast." AGREED! Join Bethany as she speaks confidently on the importance of mental health, how until 2 years ago she lived "off-the grid" and didn't even have a cell phone, and her work as a wilderness therapy instructor: "Katie found me on the FKT website. We did the Adirondack 46 Unsupported. We've learned a lot since then ... FKTs have become the perfect niche!" "It's important to keep public lands open to the public. This has saved people." (Note: Katie was also scheduled as a guest, but experienced technical difficulties). This podcast releases on September 17, the one year anniversary of their A46 thru-hike. Success stories like this are wonderful to hear. And what's next? "I've done 19 FKTs; I'd like to get to 50 by 2023!" "The A46 FKT can go lower ..."

RoamHowl
Online Business As A Dynamic, Always-Evolving Experiment with Zach Spuckler of HeartSoulHustle

RoamHowl

Play Episode Listen Later Sep 21, 2021 41:23


In one of my all-time favorite episodes, I speak with online business strategist Zach Spuckler.  It's a juicy conversation with a Class-A internet marketer where we go way beyond the nuts and bold of “How To” and focus instead on topics that concern both seasoned and novice business owners looking to play a strong online marketing game.   Passionate about using the internet to get financial freedom, Zach made his first money online at age 13!  Since then, he's done it “ALL”.... from affiliate marketing, website building, food blogging, consulting, etc., and today he runs Heart Soul Hustle where he teaches all the ways to sell services and courses online, consults with successful online entrepreneurs and runs an agency that runs Facebook ad campaigns. Here are some of the topics we discuss: -       Reframing everything you do in your business as a “big experiment” -       How to rationalize the expense of hiring a consultant or joining a mastermind  -       Being adaptive and open to embracing new technologies and platforms to stay   competitive and abandoning them when they don't work -       How online marketing is a dynamic field and always changing -       Being willing to be a beginner -       Assessing the R.O.I. on big investments in consultants and masterminds -       Learning the fundamentals of business, marketing and operations -       The importance of going “ALL IN”  -       How growing a strong online presence and business takes time My favorite lesson from Zach:  “One failure is not your fate!”  Agreed (as I've demonstrated multiple times LOL).   This episode is your permission slip to go all in on that idea you have for something you want to launch or try, and to have fun doing it.  As promised, here's the link to SUBSTACK which I mentioned during our conversation:  https://substack.com      Connect with Zach Spuckler  at:   His website:  http://www.heartsoulhustle.com/  IG: @heartsoulhustle #launch #onlinemarketing #businessconsulting #onlinepresence #internetmarketer 

Light After Trauma
Episode 61: Inside the World of Our Adolescents with Lynn Langan and Denise Wolf

Light After Trauma

Play Episode Listen Later Sep 21, 2021 54:16


On this week's episode we welcome back our good friend, Denise R. Wolf MA, ATR-BC, ATCS, LPC along with our brand new guest, author Lynn Langan. Alyssa, Denise, and Lynn are passionate about helping adolescents and use this episode to dive into the struggles and unique challenges facing our youth today. In Lynn Langan's brand new book, Duke & The Lonely Boy, she takes readers inside the world of our adolescents and emphasizes the importance of making kids feel seen and heard. Whether you are an adolescent, a young adult, a teacher, a therapist, or a parent, this discussion as well as Lynn's book will help you to better understand how to navigate the world of our adolescents.  Light After Trauma Website Support the Podcast   Purchase Lynn's Book Learn More About Denise Wolf Transcript:   Alyssa Scolari [00:09]: Happy, happy Tuesday. Welcome back to another fun episode of Light After Trauma. It kind of feels like an oxymoron, doesn't it, to be like, "Oh yeah, this is another fun episode for a trauma-focused podcast," but I hope that if y'all have learned anything from me by now, it's that I think that the recovery process and the trauma process just isn't really possible without some humor. I am a really big fan of humor therapy, which is not officially a thing, but it's my thing because I believe if we don't laugh about some things, we'll cry about everything. We have with us two special guests today. One of them is a very familiar face on the podcast. We have got Denise Wolf back with us today, which is so exciting. She has done I believe two episodes already at this point, so this is her third episode on the podcast. We just need her to keep coming back because she's amazing. Denise has done some episodes. I think the one episode that she did with just me was on art therapy, and then the other one we did talking about law enforcement and the whole defunding the police versus backing the blue. So, definitely go and check out those episodes if you have not listened already, because Denise is really an incredible person and has a lot of awesome things to say. Plus, she's really funny as hell. I'm just going to reintroduce her in case she is new and you a new listener here on the podcast. Denise R. Wolf has so many letters after her last name, which just is a testament to how incredible she is. Denise R. Wolf is the Owner and Practitioner Therapist of Mangata Services as well as an adjunct faculty member at Drexel and Villanova Universities. Denise is a Licensed Professional Counselor, as well as a Registered Board Certified and an Art Therapy Certified Supervisor through the Art Therapy Credentials Board. For over 20 years, Denise has been practicing as a therapist primarily treating adolescents and adults with histories of complex interpersonal trauma. She works as a consultant for many Philadelphia organizations, including the Philadelphia Art Museum, providing clinical supervision and programming related to trauma informed care. Denise has presented at city, state, national, and international conferences in the areas of trauma informed care, trauma and neuro biology, pedagogy, clinical supervision. She has several articles published in peer review journals, and has contributed chapters to Seminole texts in her clinical work. Actually as I was reading that, I think you might have even done... Actually, I think the episode where we talked about art therapy with Denise, I think that one was a two person episode as well. We just love doing two person episodes with Denise, because yes, I'm pretty sure we had somebody else on that podcast as well. Regardless, go check those episodes out because they're awesome. Then I also want to highlight our other very special guest today, who is Lynn Langan. Lynn is brand new to the podcast, but I am really excited to have her on because we are talking all about adolescents, teenagers, whatever word you might have for them. I'm sure that some people have some choice words for teenagers, but I happen to absolutely love working with teenagers. As you heard, Denise with teenagers, I work with teenagers and adolescents, and kids that are young adults. That's really my wheelhouse. Lynn Langan is an author who just had a book come out that we are really going to dive in today, because it's really all about kind of diving into the adolescent brain. Lynn lives in Pennsylvania, and her love for writing developed after she finally learned how to read in the fourth grade, after being diagnosed with a learning disability. She fell in love with the characters crafted by the wonderful Judy Blume, and found a great escape into the world of fiction where everything seemed to be possible from big problems to small. She went on to graduate from Kutztown University, with a BA in professional writing, and then spent three glorious years teaching at an at risk youth high school just outside of Philadelphia. There, she was inspired to write her young adult novel, which is After You Were Gone, which is available. Her newest book is called Duke and the Lonely Boy, and that came out in August. That is published by Black Rose Writing. We are here today to talk about it. I cannot wait. Hello, Denise, Lynn. Welcome. Lynn Langan [05:34]: Hello. Denise Wolf [05:34]: Hello. Lynn Langan [05:35]: Thanks for having us. Alyssa Scolari [05:37]: I'm so happy you're here. I have to admit, I feel like I'm missing the party over there because you're both together recording this. I'm like I should be there. I should be over there with a glass of wine or something. Lynn Langan [05:49]: Absolutely. Denise Wolf [05:51]: [crosstalk 00:05:51]. Alyssa Scolari [05:54]: I'm so glad you both are here. As I was telling the listeners, Denise, one of the many things that I think are just incredible about you is your versatility and your ability to just kick absolute ass in so many different realms in the mental health field, and I love it. We've gone in depth about art therapy. We've gone in depth about the legal system. And now here we are today turning it to adolescence, which is a topic we could talk about forever, and something that I think all three of us are very passionate about. Thanks for coming back again. Denise Wolf [06:34]: Thanks so much for having me again. Alyssa Scolari [06:37]: Of course. It's such a pleasure. Lynn, it is such a pleasure to meet you. Talk to me about your journey to becoming a writer, because if I understand correctly, this isn't is your first book. You've had a book out before? Lynn Langan [06:55]: That is correct. Not published though. It's been for sale, but this is the first book that was sold for me. I went to college for writing, and then when you get out of college that's not really how you're going to make money apparently. I was doing newspapers and short story stuff, so probably when I was around 27 I was like, "You know what, I really want to write a book. I want to do this." So I spent a lot of time digging in and learning how to do this actually, because college can only teach you so much. But when you get out into the real world, you have to continue practicing and learning, and growing in your field of whatever you're doing. SCBWI conferences, which is just a whole chapter of adolescent writers from probably picture books all the way up to 18 years old, so it's a whole bunch of authors. They're getting together and to these conferences, and learning, and figuring out how to write an entire book, and query it, and all the steps that go along with it. It's been an incredibly long and hard journey, but worth it. Definitely worth it. Alyssa Scolari [08:12]: Yeah, I think that's very important that you said that because the life of a writer is not an easy one. Lynn Langan [08:18]: No. No, it's not. Alyssa Scolari [08:21]: I think it's really important to shed light on that because I think a lot of people have an idea of what it looks like. "I want to be a writer. I want to be a writer," but then putting that into practice, in theory it seems like a life of luxury. I write whenever I want. I sip my coffee. Pinky up. As I type of the computer while the birds are chirping outside. It's like [crosstalk 00:08:46]- Lynn Langan [08:45]: No. And the words are so easy. They're right there and I'm just plucking them out of the air. That is absolutely not the case. It's a lot of discipline because you work a full-time job. There's no one yelling at you to go to the computer to write this book. The future is unknown if it ever see the light of day. That's kind of where I grew my peace from, was that I'm doing this thing because this thing, this art, is what makes me me. It's my joy and my happiness, even there's struggle along the way. If I wasn't doing it, then I don't think I'd be complete. It is a lot of discipline. It's a lot of just sitting down and looking at the blank computer screen back at me like, "Come on. Put some words down." Alyssa Scolari [09:33]: Any second now. Lynn Langan [09:34]: Any second now, this big idea's going to come to me. That's not true. Alyssa Scolari [09:39]: It's so tough. It's so tough. Lynn Langan [09:42]: Yeah. Alyssa Scolari [09:43]: My next question, and this is a question I have for both of you, tell me why the love for adolescence, because all three of us share a big passion for the kiddos in this world. Why? It doesn't matter whoever can go first, but I'm very curious as to well adolescents are such a passion. At least in my experience, I always knew that I wanted to work with kids. Everybody would tell me, even my professors in college would be like, "No, you don't. No, you don't. No, you don't." In grad school, "What do you want to do?" "I want to work with kids." "No, you don't." Everybody kept trying to talk me out of working with kids. It's very unpopular. So tell me for each of you why it's so important to you. Denise Wolf [10:32]: I'll start. Part of it too, Alyssa, like I was told the same thing, "You don't want to do that." Tell me I don't want something or I can't do something, and I am going to do it 1,000% times over and everything on fire in my path. Alyssa Scolari [10:48]: Yes. Yes. Denise Wolf [10:48]: That's part of it, but it's also a connection to adolescence and that inner 15 year old kid that still lives in my heart that says, "Fuck you. I can do this. Get out of my way." That's part of it, I'm oppositional, and that connects with adolescence. Part of it is that I had a troubled adolescence, you could say. I'll stop there. Some of it I feel like is not quite payback. I don't have the right word, but making repairs for some of the errors that I made along the way. Part of it is because I can. Because I can and because a lot of people can or don't want to. I guess there's a fourth part that adolescents are so exciting from a neuro developmental perspective. It is like the Fourth of July in their brains. It was such a great time of change and shifting, and possibilities. Lynn Langan [11:46]: Discovery. Denise Wolf [11:46]: And discovery, yeah. It's really exciting. For all of those reasons. Lynn Langan [11:53]: Yeah, and I would go into that also for all those things, and say that I want to be an advocate because I remember my youth not being taken seriously because we're young, and our voices don't matter. That's not true. We are young... Well, we are not now, but we were young and they are young, and they see things and make connections in ways that if you stop and listen to them it makes sense. We're missing some of that youthful view in the way they see the world. As we get older, I think we get more narrow in our views and also take less chances where when you're young you kind of live and learn by your mistakes. I want them to know that that's okay. It's exactly how you're supposed to learn. The adults that are walking around judging you or saying what you're doing is wrong or whatever, it's not. It's your time to grow into a person. I want to be there to foster that. Authentically, I want to make sure that's in my work that they have opinions that matter, and the way they see the world matters, and they have a place for that. Alyssa Scolari [13:06]: Yeah. Lynn Langan [13:06]: Yeah. Alyssa Scolari [13:07]: Absolutely. Have either of you seen the Twilight saga, the movies? Lynn Langan [13:13]: Yes. Denise Wolf [13:14]: Yes. [crosstalk 00:13:14]. Alyssa Scolari [13:15]: I guess let's take it to the fourth one, Breaking Dawn Part Two. Lynn Langan [13:21]: Oh, yeah. Oh yeah, part two. Alyssa Scolari [13:23]: I know, I'm going here, right? Lynn Langan [13:25]: Yeah. Alyssa Scolari [13:26]: Full disclosure, I just finished watching that series again last week so it's fresh on my mind. But, this is kind of how I see adolescents and this is what I love so much about them. Remember the part in Breaking Dawn Part Two where Bella becomes a vampire and everything in the world is new to her, and her senses are heightened, and she can smell things, and run at a pace she's never been able to run before, and her skin, she's in a different body, she has a thirst for things she never thirsted before. She just feels like all of these things, like sensory overload. I feel like that's what it can be like working with adolescents. The world is just new to them. They're in bodies that they're not super familiar with. Things are explosive and exciting. Lynn Langan [14:23]: Yes. Alyssa Scolari [14:24]: I love it. I feel like that's what it's like to work with kids sometimes. That's what it's like to be an adolescent sometimes. Lynn Langan [14:31]: Absolutely. Denise Wolf [14:31]: Yep. Lynn Langan [14:32]: Yeah, you've got these thoughts and everything is brand new. Everything. Your world is so small. You don't realize how big the world is until you become an adult and you start living in it. The adolescent brain, the picture that they see is very tiny and then it makes the things that they're experiencing seem so heavy. That's another thing to work with the adolescents is cool, because you can be the person that says, "Calm down. You don't know what you're talking about." Or you could be the person that says, "Sit down. Let me talk to you. Let's talk about this. Let's have a real conversation about it." This isn't the end of the world. This is just the beginning. Denise Wolf [15:09]: Yep, and it feels gigantic and soul-crushing. Lynn Langan [15:13]: Right, because it is for you. Denise Wolf [15:14]: Right. Because your life is only yea long, and this is taking up such a big part of it. Lynn Langan [15:19]: Right, yeah. Denise Wolf [15:20]: Which is cool and exciting, and to be there and to validate it and celebrate it. Lynn Langan [15:24]: Right, absolutely. Alyssa Scolari [15:26]: Yeah, to validate it and to celebrate it, especially because so many kids get shut down. Denise Wolf [15:33]: Oh, gosh. Lynn Langan [15:33]: Yes. Alyssa Scolari [15:35]: The amount of times... Like I was saying before we started recording, the amount of times that adults say to children, "You don't know how easy you have it. What do you know? You're just a kid." I'm like I actually think they know a lot more than we know as adults. Lynn Langan [15:57]: Yes, absolutely. Denise Wolf [15:59]: Yes. Alyssa Scolari [16:00]: They're smart as hell. Lynn Langan [16:01]: They're smart, yes. And they just need a platform for themselves to be able to... That's what's so critical too, because if that age if you have that one adult that's shoving you down and you're influenced by that, your whole trajectory of your life could be changed just by some adult making some offhanded comment to you. I see that a lot. I think we see that a lot too, probably all three of us, because everybody works with kids, or has worked with the kids. You have one person that doesn't validate, and then you get in your head and you can't put it down. Alyssa Scolari [16:37]: Yeah. Lynn Langan [16:38]: Yeah. Alyssa Scolari [16:39]: Absolutely. I'm sure we've been those kids. I know I for sure was that kid who really felt like... I felt like as a kid I was always too much. My emotions were always too big for somebody. It was always like "Calm down. Stop crying. Why are you crying about this? You have to get over it. You have to move on with your life." I see kids in my office who come in with those same big emotions, and those same big feelings, and I think about how they suffer so much less simply because another adult is able to say, "Aw man, of course you feel that way." Lynn Langan [17:20]: Right. Alyssa Scolari [17:20]: It makes all the difference, doesn't it? Denise Wolf [17:23]: Yeah. Lynn Langan [17:23]: It really does. "I see you." That's what you're saying, "I see you. You exist. Everything you feel exists. It's real. It's here." Don't bury that down because it's making other people feel uncomfortable it. I think a lot of kids get their voice shut off because of that. No one's validating them or they can crawl inside their head and just be quiet. [crosstalk 00:17:45]- Alyssa Scolari [17:46]: 1,000%. [crosstalk 00:17:46] 1,000%. Lynn Langan [17:48]: Yeah, and it's sad. I don't want to see that for anybody. I think it's good to think of it in terms like that. It could just feel like you have a breakup with your boyfriend or girlfriend. Yes, as an adult you're like, "Get over it. You're going to get hurt 1,000 times." Well guess what, this is the first time I'm being hurt and everything you're saying to me is how I'm going to model my life from this point on. This is how I'm going to deal with things that come up in my life because you told me to calm down, or didn't see, or didn't hear me. I think that's good to give kids voices. Denise Wolf [18:23]: Yep. Alyssa Scolari [18:24]: Absolutely. It makes them feel human. I almost feel like we dehumanize kids, and we don't see them as having the same kind of complex feelings and emotions that adults have. There's always "I'm the adult and you're the kid. This doesn't concern you." It's like if we could shift that. Your kid is an independent human with independent thoughts and feelings, and viewpoints of the world. If we could shift from "You're just a kid. What the fuck do you know?" To "Hey, tell me how you view that," it would make such a big difference in the lives of adolescents I think. Lynn Langan [19:16]: Absolutely. When people say, "Oh, well you don't know how good you have it," I look at kids and I'm like, "Man, you don't know how bad you have it." Because you have to be plugged in to this social media, to this... You're always plugged in and you don't get a break from that ever. Ever. I look at my nieces and nephews and I'm just like, "What would it be like if you could just put that phone down?" I know you can't because you feel like you have to be involved in that, but it's just crazy. You don't ever have a safe spot. When we were kids, you can get away from school or all of that, and just go geek in your room and do whatever you want. But not these kids. They're just sitting there taking selfies 24/7 and feeling like they have to, and people are judging them for that, and they're not looking at what are the consequences of that? What does that really feel like to be plugged in 24/7 and never getting a break? Denise Wolf [20:13]: They don't know because they haven't had a different experience. Lynn Langan [20:15]: Right, yeah it's very disheartening when adults judge the kids. They're like, "Oh, you don't know what it's like. I walked up to school on a hill and back again on a hill." No, these kids are going through it. There's a lot of pressures on them. New things that they're coming against. There's just so much for them I feel. Denise Wolf [20:37]: Yep. I think part of the reason we collectively adopt, dismiss and minimize adolescents is because they don't want to remember their own eps because they're growing pains. Growing pains, they're emotional and physical. They shut them down, "Be quiet. Get over it. Calm down," like being on an airplane when there's a crying baby and somebody's like, "Shut that baby up." My response is, "Oh, you were born a full grown adult asshole? You were never a baby?" People want to forget or deny their adolescence. Lynn Langan [21:14]: Right, absolutely. Denise Wolf [21:16]: But we don't. That's why we're amazing. Lynn Langan [21:18]: Right. Alyssa Scolari [21:20]: No, that's right. That's why we're fucking amazing at what we do, because we understand the magic that lives in adolescence. I love it. I love it. Tell me, Lynn, where was the inspiration for this book? I'll let you answer that question before I drill you with five more questions. Lynn Langan [21:47]: The idea of we indirectly impact people versus directly impact people has always been fascinating to me, because Denise and I worked at Carson Valley Children's Aid, which is a residential facility for troubled youth. We had a lot of Philadelphian children who came out to our school that were bused in. Alyssa Scolari [22:08]: Is that how the two of you met? Lynn Langan [22:09]: Yes. Denise Wolf [22:10]: Yep. Alyssa Scolari [22:10]: That's awesome. Lynn Langan [22:12]: This one day the guidance counselor came out said, "Okay, I want you to give out a soft pretzel to a student that you think is deserving." We're teachers. We're like a million miles... You just take the ticket and you're like, okay whatever. So, I gave it to this student who was very short, very quiet, very closed off. She didn't like to talk at all. I walked up to her and I said, "Here you go." She started crying. I was like, "What's going on?" She was like, "I didn't think you knew who I was." I'm like, "I'm your teacher for a long time. Of course I know who you are." She was like, "I just didn't think you saw me." From that point on I was like, wow the littlest things that we do really do make a difference sometimes. You don't know. You don't know what that thing is going to be. Then that kind of just fascinated me like how many other things have I done to people that changed their perspective or vice versa. That whole seed was planted in me that I wanted to write this book where you think you know, but you don't know. You don't know what's going on in that person's life. What does that really look like, and how would that really spawn out into a novel? How could I get that across? That's kind of where I started playing with Duke and the Lonely Boy, because they both have these ideas about each other, but they don't really know each other at all. Alyssa Scolari [23:45]: Yeah. Yeah, it seems like... Again, I'm still reading this, but from all that I've gathered from the book so far, it seems like that is the moral... One of the many morals of the story is that you truly just don't know. What you did, is you magically crafted two characters who couldn't be further apart from one another. Without giving too much away, can you say a little bit more about who Duke and the Lonely Boy are? I just love their story right from the get go. Lynn Langan [24:19]: Yeah. It seems stereotypical, but it's not, I promise. Duke is the popular boy, and he's the All-Star football player, and he's got a very bright future ahead of him, but he's struggling in math. So, something very simple. The coach gets him this tutor, Tommy, who is just this outcast, but not in the stereotypical form. He's just quiet and nobody really knows his existence in this school or the story. They meet up and that's how the story begins, but it's told obviously through two perspectives. The first half of the book you're really getting Tommy's perspective as the little person and his story of what's going on. You're seeing him through Duke's eyes as a teenager. I think it's unpacking that for Tommy. Duke's got his own struggles going on, which Tommy kind of looks at like, "What's up? You can't do math, but you got everything else going for you." The story too jumps around in time, which kind of reminds me of therapy work, where it's not like you sit down with the client the first time and tell their entire history. You're working through their story kind of like event by event, and it's not sequential. So we as therapists have to be mindful that we don't make assumptions from go because I think for me one of the big takeaways is when you know, you know, and to remember that you don't. Duke and Tommy have these really complex stories, and have this sort of initial encounter where they think they know each other. Then throughout this jumping in time, back and forth in time and these crossovers of their interactions in their own personal stories, your perspective and understanding and empathy really shifts. Alyssa Scolari [26:18]: Yeah, absolutely. You know what also I love is that you're breaking this stereotype. If a high schooler were to pick up this book and read it, whether that high schooler is the football star in the school, the popular one, or more of the loner, you can still learn something. I love that this breaks the stereotype, because I think a lot of people feel like the kids who are loners are the only kids who have stuff going on. Like "Oh, they've got issues." I can't tell you how many times I have heard other kids be like, "Oh yeah, there's the loner. That's the kid that's going to shoot up the school," and say dumb shit like that that kids say. But you als don't know how much is going on behind the football stars, the basketball stars, the most popular girl. I like that you break that stereotype as well. Lynn Langan [27:24]: I wanted the reader to be able to identify with real characters. These are not those heavy issues in there, but with... I'm not sure if [inaudible 00:27:36] that for you is the right [inaudible 00:27:38]. I feel like the reader deserves that. Alyssa Scolari [27:42]: That it's like there are heavy issues in there. Lynn Langan [27:44]: Yeah, that there's heavy [crosstalk 00:27:45]. Alyssa Scolari [27:45]: Some of its tough. Lynn Langan [27:46]: Yeah, some of its tough, and it's real and maybe you could see yourself in some of these things. I like that Duke is the popular one, but he's growing so much in this story. He's trying to find his place. Just because you're popular doesn't mean you know your place. Duke constantly questions whether is this real, or if I don't keep doing things that these people are saying that I do then I'll lose everything. I do think that that's a struggle for the popular kids. If you could pick up that book as a popular kid and be like, "Yeah. Right, I have things too and I don't know what to do with these things. They're heavy and maybe I don't want to be in the box that I've suddenly found myself in. Maybe I want to go sit with the loner or the art students, or the music group," or whoever. High school is very segregated in where you're going to be, so it's nice for the popular kid to be able to pick up that book and say, "Yeah, I do have things and I don't necessarily know what the hell I'm doing. I don't have it all. I just appear to have it all." Sometimes our appearances really plays with your head. Denise Wolf [29:01]: In a lot of ways, Tommy has more resilience than Duke because Tommy's endured a lot and in some ways that's given him a lot of strength. Lynn Langan [29:12]: Yeah, but he doesn't know he has it. Denise Wolf [29:15]: Right. Lynn Langan [29:15]: Yeah, that's his journey, is that he is authentic to himself, but he doesn't know how to get that out to the world because he's just been shut down by his life situations. Denise Wolf [29:30]: I'm thinking about The Breakfast Club. I'm like is this a modern day Breakfast Club? You know in the end when I think Jeb Nelson's narrating, he's like "In each one of us there's a cheerleader [crosstalk 00:29:40]-" Lynn Langan [29:39]: Oh yeah. Denise Wolf [29:39]: "And the football player." Lynn Langan [29:42]: Right. Denise Wolf [29:43]: Right, and they're dealing with other characters in the book. You meet Charlie, and Lexie, and I'm thinking there's a little bit... It's not like, oh the popular kid's going to read this and identify with Duke. These characters are so well developed and complex. They really speak I think collectively of the adolescent experience. Lynn Langan [30:03]: Yeah, and sometimes I find I read young adult books and they bring up something that's heavy, and then they leave it. They just leave it there- Alyssa Scolari [30:14]: Skirted away, yeah. Lynn Langan [30:15]: It's like, actually that's not what the real emotion of that is. Don't just put it in there because it's heavy. Don't brush over that. We're also, as authors, I think we have a moral code that we should say we're not going to breeze over these emotions because it's not going to sell books or it's not Hollywood enough. No. I think that's what it is. We have the duty as these authors that are writing to these young children to really be their users into the world and validate their feelings that they're feeling, and not gloss over. I was reading a book recently and the main character was raped. Then we were done. I was like nothing- Denise Wolf [31:00]: [crosstalk 00:31:00] that's not how that goes. Lynn Langan [31:01]: That is absolutely not how that goes. Denise Wolf [31:03]: [crosstalk 00:31:03] like that. Lynn Langan [31:05]: Right, my fear is that the young girl who is reading that is like, "Well, I guess I gloss over that, this thing that happened to me. I guess I don't talk about it, or I don't have real feelings about it." Well, no. That's an injustice. Alyssa Scolari [31:22]: Yeah, and as you're both saying this, my adolescence is very much on the forefront of my brain just b because of all the inner child work that I've been doing recently. I have lots of memories from my adolescence, and I was in school. The time that I was in middle school, we didn't talk about this stuff. This really wasn't something that got talked about not even in the slightest. Even today, when it is getting talked about, it's usually not getting talked about correctly, or not handled well. So, we've got a long way to go, but that's a whole other podcast. I turned to books. I was such a reader, and I turned to all of these young adult novels. I remember... As you were saying that Lynn, I'm sitting here and the feeling that I used to feel as a 14 year old is coming back to me, where I was opening these books, these young adult novels, trying to find the darkest ones I could find. I need the darkest book that is in this section that somebody will let me take from this God forsaken school library. I would read it and look, and it would touch on something dark, and that to me would be what I needed to get into. I would be like, "Okay, we're talking about drugs here. We're talking about sexual abuse here." My 14 year old brain is like, "I need more of this. I need more of this. What do you mean you were raped? Are we ever going to talk about this?" No, we're just going to talk about how you got into a fight with your best friend now, and that's the plot. The rape is... So, I love that you're doing that because I agree, and I think that that is such a missing piece for so many young adult novels, is that for Hollywood purposes, for selling purposes, for stigma purposes, because we don't like to talk about these things, a lot of authors gloss over it. There's not many people who dig right into the core and look at all facets of it, because it's uncomfortable for folks. Lynn Langan [33:34]: Yep. Yeah, definitely. There's going to be times where the reader's going to be uncomfortable in Duke and the Lonely Boy, and that's appropriate. My only hope is that I did a good enough job that if it touches one kid's life, if it's a map for one kid's life, then I've done my job. That's kind of what my philosophy is on that. I want to be authentic and give you a real picture of what's going on. Alyssa Scolari [34:04]: Yeah. Lynn Langan [34:05]: Sometimes that's ugly. Alyssa Scolari [34:08]: Sometimes it's ugly, but that's what's so helpful. I know I shared this when we were going back and forth in emails, but for me the book that I was finally able to get my hands on that went into detail, this book it was called Almost Lost. It was the journey of a teenager's healing process and recovery from addiction, and it's the transcript of his therapy sessions were in the book. I read that book and I felt like I was home. Not only did I feel like that therapist in that book was speaking to me as a 14 year old, I was in the eighth grade when I read this book and did a book report on it, but in that moment that book told me this is what I need to do with the rest of my life. When you say "If this book can help one person," I guarantee it's going to help so many more than that because I see what a book did for me. It can change lives. Lynn Langan [35:09]: Right, absolutely. There's a theory I have to bring up here. Alyssa Scolari [35:12]: Please do. Please do. Denise Wolf [35:16]: A theory about why looking at art, why we have sort of these "oh my gosh" relief moments like you're say the art museum, or listening to a piece of well composed music or whatever it is. So, [inaudible 00:35:29] have this series born in psychology to arts that we take a well crafted piece of art, like [inaudible 00:35:36], but we take our defuse tensions and anxieties from our lives, the day, whatever it is, project it into the work of art or reading a book, and through resolution of the formal elements, story after story, our plot, characters, all that kind of stuff, we then experience a sense of our own relief or release of tension, cortisol, all that kind of stuff. I'm really connecting that to when story and your story, and my story of the dark, dark books that I dug out, or the banned books from the library [crosstalk 00:36:11]. Even if it wasn't directly my story to be able to be part of somebody else's that reflected a part of me, that's well crafted, we get a sense of relief and release. Lynn Langan [36:23]: Right, absolutely. Absolutely. Alyssa Scolari [36:26]: Yeah. I have never heard of that before, and that is fascinating. As you're sitting here, I'm such a dork, as you're sitting here saying that, I'm going "Oh shit, that's why I love Harry Potter so much. That's why I can't stop reading Harry Potter." Lynn Langan [36:46]: Yes. Denise Wolf [36:47]: Right, yeah. There's a part of us that we project into these works of art. Then through the character's resolution we experience a sense of our own. Does that mean it's going to fix your problems? No, that's not at all what I'm saying. Lynn Langan [36:59]: No. But sometimes, think we're all saying it too, it's nice to not feel alone. We're not alone and that. Even if it's not our story, if it's just something that's sort of singular or where we can insert ourself, even it's just a false victory because you read the character's victory, it does give you hope. Alyssa Scolari [37:21]: Yes. Lynn Langan [37:22]: And hope is all you really need at the end of the day, because if you feel that you have that, some kind of glimmer of light at the end of the tunnel per se, then you're going to chuck through to the end and find it for yourself. I think. Denise Wolf [37:22]: Yes. Alyssa Scolari [37:38]: Yes. When you are dealing with the biology of an adolescent brain, and their emotional response center is on fire, and their prefrontal cortex, the place for rational thought is under-developed, hope can be a hard, hard thing to come by. Denise Wolf [38:06]: Very. Yeah, it's abstract. I think in adolescent, the top third of their brain is like under construction. Lynn Langan [38:13]: Right. Denise Wolf [38:14]: It's not even there. So, hope is [crosstalk 00:38:16] that belongs in that top third. So, you can talk about it, you have to feel about it. That's where art comes in, to create that- Lynn Langan [38:28]: Yeah, absolutely. Alyssa Scolari [38:31]: Yeah. Lynn Langan [38:33]: There were several scenes in this book that I wrote, and then I would walk away from my desk and come back and be like, "Nope, you wrote that as an adult. Stop. You can't fix the problems like that. Stop it." Alyssa Scolari [38:50]: Yeah, now this might a little bit of a, I guess, abstract question, but was there anything that you had to do to be able to really channel your inner adolescent? Or is that something that's very easily accessible to you? Lynn Langan [39:05]: It's something I think is very easily accessible to me, for some reason. It's a gift that [crosstalk 00:39:11]- Alyssa Scolari [39:11]: It's a gift. A gift and a curse. Lynn Langan [39:15]: [crosstalk 00:39:15]. It's both those things. I was reading this book. I'm dyslexic, so there's book about... A dyslexic author wrote this book about the gifts of being dyslexic. One of the things is that the way we form memories around the events that are happening because for a normal brain it goes syntax... What's that word? Here we go, [crosstalk 00:39:39]. Denise Wolf [39:39]: It's synapsis. Lynn Langan [39:41]: Synapsis. But for a dyslexic brain, it kind of takes a U turn. It pings differently, and because of that we're really grounded in memory. We have an excellent memory for all things, but that's kind of like our survival guide because it's how we thrive. Because of that, I can basically tell you everything that's happened in my life. My memory, for some reason, well not for some reason, for that reason is extremely strong. When I sit down to write these adolescent books, I can just sit down and be like, "Okay, you're 17. Go." You got to think of high school, of events, and just remember how small my brain was, or what I was thinking or feeling at that point. Then I can dive in. That's how I know when I'm not being authentic to the characters or the voice, is when I feel like my adult brain is coming in and being like, "Well, that was easy." I'm like, wait no, it shouldn't be easy. It's not an easy [crosstalk 00:40:39] job. You can't think like that. I feel like because of all of that, that's why I'm very good with my memories and all of that. Denise Wolf [40:47]: Mm-hmm [affirmative], it makes sense. Lynn Langan [40:48]: Mm-hmm [affirmative], I'm very in touch with that. Denise Wolf [40:52]: Fun fact about Lynn, oh my gosh, this so cool, Lynn has soundtracks or song for the characters, so trying to get into character, then they're like, "Oh I need to listen [crosstalk 00:41:03]." Alyssa Scolari [41:03]: Really? Oh, that's so cool. Lynn Langan [41:06]: Right, yeah. It's that initial, here's the story that I'm thinking in my head. Here's the soundtrack that I'm going to put to that, and [inaudible 00:41:14] music. It's very helpful in rewrites because my agent's coming back and saying, "Go into this novel and fix this problem." I'm like, "What? That was so long ago. Oh, I know. I'll just hit this play button right here." And then boom, I'm right back into their world. I'm right there. Alyssa Scolari [41:32]: That is brilliant. Where did you even think to be able to do that? [inaudible 00:41:38] music, depending on whatever you put on, can get you anywhere. Anywhere you want to go- Lynn Langan [41:45]: Yes, anywhere you want to go. Alyssa Scolari [41:46]: Music will take you there. Lynn Langan [41:48]: Yes, it will take you there. The writing process is unique in the fact that you sit down to the computer and you're asking yourself to leave yourself. You're asking yourself to forget about whatever troubles you had that day, or your perspective of the world, or sometimes your gender, and go. As a writer, that's the thing that you have to work on the most, is who is actually at the keyboard today? Is it Lynn, or is it Duke, or is it Tommy? Who is it? In order for me to train my mind to do that, when I first wrote my first novel, I would play their songs. I would play them three or four times before I even put my hands to the keyboard because I knew I had to listen to it repeatedly to get all of my personal baggage out of the way so that the character could step forward and would be influenced in my writing. I can do it now without music. It's really just training your... It's almost like a meditative state, is what I would best explain. You consciously ask yourself to exit. Alyssa Scolari [42:54]: That's fascinating and brilliant. Wow. Denise Wolf [42:59]: Something else [crosstalk 00:43:00] tell me about writing, because I've done some academic writing, is to write first with an old timey pen on paper. There's something about that kinesthetic sensory, just kind of writing actual words on paper and then the first edit becomes entering it into the keyboard. That connects so much more with sort of the I think emotional part of ourselves. Lynn Langan [43:25]: Absolutely. I usually edit... My first round, I'll print out the manuscript and edit that way because there's something about that process that gets you at a computer. Alyssa Scolari [43:35]: Agreed. Lynn Langan [43:36]: It's more authentic to you. Alyssa Scolari [43:38]: Yes, agreed. There's something so different that comes out of you when you are physically writing than hitting buttons on a keyboard. It's a completely different experience. Lynn Langan [43:51]: Absolutely, yeah. Alyssa Scolari [43:54]: I talk about journaling with some of my kids who I feel like it might be helpful for, and they're like, "Can I just type it out on my phone?" I'm like, "Hell no." Lynn Langan [44:04]: No. [crosstalk 00:44:06]. Get that pen in your hand. Feel it. [crosstalk 00:44:08]. Alyssa Scolari [44:08]: And get a fun pen, right? Lynn Langan [44:10]: Yes. Alyssa Scolari [44:11]: I have a set of I think it's like 100 pack. Oh God, 100 pack of glitter gel pens. I'm still a giant child. Denise Wolf [44:21]: Yep. Yeah. Mm-hmm [affirmative]. Are they scented? Alyssa Scolari [44:26]: Denise, I looked for the scented ones. Lord knows that I tried. Unfortunately, they're not. Denise Wolf [44:31]: Mm-hmm [affirmative]. Mm-hmm [affirmative]. Alyssa Scolari [44:34]: But I wish. The last question I want to ask you, because I also think this is important because I do know that we have listeners out there who are parents, and if they don't have an adolescent currently, they have an up and coming adolescent or adolescents at home. Do you feel that this book is one that can also help parents and even any adults who work with kids get a better view inside the mind of a kid, which will then also better help them to relate to their kid in real life? Does that make sense? Denise Wolf [45:14]: Yes and yes. Alyssa Scolari [45:15]: Okay. Lynn Langan [45:18]: One of the things that you try to do as a young adult writer is remembering the place of everybody in their lives. Yes, you're living in a family. Yes, you have chores and you have bedtimes, and you have all those things. That's all true. But what's really important is the social aspect. That's where you're getting all your connections, and that's the most important part. As a parent, I think it's easy to look at your 17 or 16 year old kid and forget that there's this whole other life that is very complicated. You're just thinking they're upstairs in their room. They're taking out the trash. It's easy to get into the routine of life and forget that there's these little stories that these kids are having that have nothing to do with you. [crosstalk 00:46:08]. You can only hope that you're a great parent and you modeled well, because they're out there in the real world by themselves, and this is the time. I think that's why I like this age, because it is the loosening of the parents and the influence, and the family structure, which is also very hard on the parents, but it's just as hard on the kids. It's that constant, I think you see that a lot with Duke, where he feels guilty for not watching football with his dad because that's what they used to do. He has a social life now, and he needs to go out with his friends, but he still has that little internal battle like, "I'm going," but there's also a sadness that I know that this slipping away. Even though I'm looking forward to my independence, it is also scary. I think for both parents and kids, that's a good reminder of that. Denise Wolf [47:01]: Right, that it's all the feels. It's all the feels. I had to do an art engagement with youth, so I had to craft a 50 message about adolescents to adolescence. So, that's not a lot of words. Lynn helped me write it, thank you, and it started off with "No matter what, it's going to hurt." It was really great, if I do say so, and I submitted and they changed it before publication and didn't check with me. So, when I read my message to adolescents in this glossy thing they put out, it was like being a teen is great. I'm like, fuck no. Alyssa Scolari [47:37]: What the fuck? Denise Wolf [47:39]: [crosstalk 00:47:39] I said it's going to hurt, but it's okay. Alyssa Scolari [47:44]: You wrote, "It's going to hurt," and they took that and said, "Being a teen is great"? Denise Wolf [47:44]: Yeah. Lynn Langan [47:50]: Yeah. Denise Wolf [47:51]: Mm-hmm [affirmative], [crosstalk 00:47:52]. Alyssa Scolari [47:51]: Jesus Lord Almighty. Denise Wolf [47:55]: To your question earlier, Alyssa, I think it's really valuable and important for adults, educators remind ourselves of all that angsty stuff, all the feels. Get back into that. Like, no matter what it's going to hurt. You're going to be okay, but can't escape the pain. That's where growth happens. Lynn Langan [48:15]: Right, exactly. Just go ahead and feel what you need to feel. It'll be funny if you interviewed I would say Duke's family, they also I think would come away and have the perspective that everything in Duke's life is okay, where it's not. His family member that really knows that is his sister, which is also good for parents to I think see from that angle that siblings have that connection with each other and they can look out for each other, or they can call each other out on their bullshit, or any of that. Yeah, it's just a weird time in the like where everybody's learning how to let go of this family unit. Denise Wolf [48:57]: Mm-hmm [affirmative]. Mm-hmm [affirmative]. Alyssa Scolari [49:00]: I think the most important part is just what both of you were speaking to is, being able as adults to get back in touch with not just the angst, but all of the feelings. I think so much of adulthood has become just about numbing out, by working 9:00 to 5:00, playing music or a podcast, or a news radio in the car to and from work. You come home. You eat. You do whatever. You go to bed, and you do it all the next days. Weekends stereotypically include going out, drinking, this, that... it's so focused around just numbing out. As adults, we almost just even have time for our feelings. I think that's what makes the three of us so fucking incredible, because I don't sense that we do that. We feel things. Denise Wolf [49:52]: Mm-hmm [affirmative]. Lynn Langan [49:52]: Yeah. Alyssa Scolari [49:53]: And refuse to live in the numbed out state that I think a lot of adults have found themselves in. Denise Wolf [50:01]: Mm-hmm [affirmative]. Lynn Langan [50:01]: Yeah. I should say I think one of the best advice that Denise has ever given me in my life was that she said, when I was going through some tough times, she was like "Look, pull up a chair. Make yourself a cup of tea. Get to know that feeling that you're feeling. Ask it questions. Just don't shy away from it. Lean into it." It's really good advice to remember that as an adult, you're right, we get into these routines and again, we get more and more narrow in our thinking, in the way... I think that's part of society's pressure too, like don't talk about your feelings. Just do, do, do. It's okay to have feelings around if you want to feel sad. It's okay to feel sad. If things are not working out, it's okay that things aren't working out. It's not the end of the world. That's what's so fun about adolescents too is that they can fall down and get back up. You're so resilient when you're young, because you just haven't really quite learned to stay on the floor. I think that's probably what the three of us have learned, we keep standing up. We're going to take the punches in the ring and it's going to hurt, but we keep going and we're going to feel those feelings, we're going to figure out how not to get hit by that again- Denise Wolf [51:17]: But we probably will. Lynn Langan [51:18]: We probably will. Denise Wolf [51:19]: We will. [crosstalk 00:51:20]. Lynn Langan [51:22]: Yeah, we won't shy away from it. Denise Wolf [51:23]: Yeah, and we'll have great stories to tell. Lynn Langan [51:26]: Yeah, exactly. Alyssa Scolari [51:27]: Yes, that's living. To me, that's living at it's fullest. Lynn Langan [51:31]: Right, absolutely. Denise Wolf [51:33]: Yep. Alyssa Scolari [51:34]: I love it. Lynn Langan [51:34]: Through mistakes. Yeah. Alyssa Scolari [51:37]: If people would like to buy this book, where on earth can they find it? I know Amazon is one, but I also want to plug if it's in any kind of small businesses or anything like that, or is it mostly Amazon? Lynn Langan [51:50]: Amazon, Barnes and Noble, and the great and wonderful Bookshop where you can go on and order it and it fosters independent bookstores. So, if you buy it from Bookshop it will be pulled from your local store. Bookshop.org, yeah. Alyssa Scolari [52:06]: Bookshop.org. Okay, I will make sure... So yeah, to the listeners out there, this is a book you absolutely going to want to get your hands on, whether you're an adolescent tuning in, whether you're in the young adult phase of your life, whether you have kids of you own, whether you are a teacher, or a therapist, truthfully even if you're a therapist who works with adults, so many of the adults that you're working with have unresolved childhood issues. I don't like the word "issues", but I can't think of a better word right now. It's very important to be able to tap into this type of stuff. Honestly, this book is very useful for everybody. Of course, feel free to use Amazon because it'll get to you very quickly, but also I am going to put the other link in there because, you know, support your local bookstore, or support small businesses as well. So, head over to the show notes. Denise and Lynn, thank you for a wonderful episode. I love talking about kids. Lynn Langan [53:13]: Yes. Alyssa Scolari [53:14]: It's been fun. Lynn Langan [53:14]: Yeah, thanks for having us. Denise Wolf [53:16]: Yeah, thank you. Alyssa Scolari [53:17]: Thanks for listening, everyone. For more information please head over to LightAfterTrauma.com, or you can also follow us on social media. On Instagram, we @LightAfterTrauma. On Twitter, it is @LightAfterPod. Lastly, please head over to Patreon.com/LightAfterTrauma to support our show. We are asking for $5.00 a month, which is the equivalent to a cup of coffee at Starbucks. So, please head on over. Again, that's Patreon.com/LightAfterTrauma. Thank you, and we appreciate your support. [singing]

Tha Boxing Voice
☎️Dillian Whyte vs Otto Wallin

Tha Boxing Voice

Play Episode Listen Later Sep 15, 2021 11:19


Raw Data By P3
Shelly Avery

Raw Data By P3

Play Episode Listen Later Sep 14, 2021 67:14


Shelly Avery is a member of Microsoft's Healthcare Solution Acceleration Team, helping Healthcare customers digitally transform their businesses.  As you listen to this conversation you'll realize, as we did, that Shelly knows the tech AND the human side of the tech very well! References in this episode: FHIR Tom Scott - There is No Algorithm for Truth   Episode Timeline: 4:30 - The high value of customization and integrations in BI in the current era of Middleware, Microsoft Teams and how good it is at connecting humans, The speed of Innovation at MS (some of which is directly customer influenced) 32:10 -  Microsoft's FHIR (Fast Healthcare Interoperability) is revolutionizing the rather large problem of interoperability in the Healthcare space 49:30 - Microsoft Viva is born from My Analytics, Rob gets into Headspace, using data for nefarious purposes Episode Transcript: Rob Collie (00:00:00): Hello friends. Today's guest is Shelly Avery. We've had a lot of Microsoft employees on the show and Shelley continues that tradition. The reason we have that tradition is because there are so many interesting things going on at Microsoft these days. And Shelley brought some super fascinating topics and perspectives to our conversation. For instance, she has a deep background and history with the Teams product for Microsoft. And so we got into the question of what is it that makes Teams so special? I really, really, really appreciated and enjoyed her answer. Rob Collie (00:00:31): And given her current focus on the healthcare industry and on health solutions, we talked a lot about how Microsoft's business applications and Power Platform strategy is actually a perfect fit for what's going on in healthcare today. We did touch on some familiar themes there, such as the new era of middleware, how a 99% solution to a problem is often a 0% solution to a problem. How even 100% of a solution itself is a moving target. And my only slightly partisan opinion that may be Microsoft's competitors in all of these spaces should just save themselves the trouble and tap out now. We talk about the virtual teams that exist on the Teams team at Microsoft. Sorry, I just had to work that into the intro. Rob Collie (00:01:17): I learned a new acronym, FHIR, which is the new upcoming regulatory and technological standard for data interoperability in the healthcare space. We talk a little bit about Veeva. Have you heard of Veeva? I hadn't. It's one of those technologies with a tremendous amount of potential to be used in a positive way and maybe a little bit of potential to be misused if we're not careful. And that conversation was also the excuse for our first ever sound effects here on the Raw Data Podcast. We spared no expense. An iPhone was held very close to a microphone. All in all, just a delightful conversation. I smiled the whole time. We also had the ever upbeat and awesome Krissy in the co-pilot's chair for the duration of this conversation. And with that completely unintentional rhyme out of the way, let's get into it. Announcer (00:02:04): Ladies and gentlemen, may I have your attention please? Rob Collie (00:02:11): This is the Raw Data by P3 Adaptive Podcast, with your host, Rob Collie. Find out what the experts at P3 Adaptive can do for your business. Just go to p3adaptive.com. Raw Data by P3 Adaptive is data with the human element. Welcome to the show. Shelly Avery, how are you doing this morning? Shelly Avery (00:02:35): Hey guys, doing good today. Rob Collie (00:02:37): Well, thanks so much for being here. Another brave soul, first time meeting us. You're willing to have it recorded. That's into the breach. I like it. Shelly Avery (00:02:45): It's good to meet you guys. I'm happy to talk to you today. Rob Collie (00:02:48): We brought Krissy today. Krissy Dyess (00:02:49): How's everybody doing? Rob Collie (00:02:51): How are you Krissy? I mean, it's earlier your time. Krissy Dyess (00:02:53): It is early. Yeah. So normally we do these in the afternoon, but it's early. I'm enjoying the sunrise this morning. Rob Collie (00:03:00): Oh, fantastic. Krissy Dyess (00:03:00): Doing good. Rob Collie (00:03:01): Yeah. A cup of joe, maybe. Krissy Dyess (00:03:03): I don't drink coffee. Shelly Avery (00:03:04): I've had two today. Rob Collie (00:03:05): Shelly, I actually already noticed that. I had noticed before we started recording that the color of your coffee cup changed. That, yeah, she just hot swaps the coffee. Shelly Avery (00:03:16): Travel mug to drop off the kids this morning and then real mug once I got back to the home office. Rob Collie (00:03:22): So Shelly, why don't you tell us what you're doing these days. Give us your CV. Shelly Avery (00:03:25): I am at Microsoft now. I am in a new role that Microsoft has created. I am on a team that is called the Healthcare Solution Acceleration team. And our job is to really help our healthcare customers digitally transform their businesses, hopefully using Microsoft technology. But I've been here five years. I started as a technical specialist, helping customers migrate from on-premise server base infrastructure to Office 365, Exchange and SharePoint in OneDrive. And then Microsoft Teams came around because it wasn't around. It didn't exist when I started, and I became a Microsoft Teams technical specialist. I thoroughly enjoyed it. I loved it. Shelly Avery (00:04:12): Teams has really empowered the world to figure out how to do work different. It created lots of opportunities for people to create new ways of solving their business problems. And it was a lot of fun to be able to partner with our customers and really help them understand how technology can be an advocate for them and just help them do things faster and more efficiently and on their own terms. And so that was super fun, especially working with healthcare. I learned through that about some other features that Microsoft had, not that I didn't know, they didn't exist, but Power Platform, Power BI, Power Automate, Power Apps, and then later Power Virtual Agents. Shelly Avery (00:05:00): And using those inside of the UI of Microsoft Teams to even further enhance what Teams does, which is communication and collaboration, but then putting apps, low-code, no-code apps, and BI and data at the fingertips of these individuals to really, really step up their game and how they're solving their business problems. It's just been super fun and I thoroughly enjoy it. And so taking all of that into my new role, specifically working with healthcare and trying to help them accelerate solutions in their organization to solve their business problems. I thoroughly enjoy what I do every day. Rob Collie (00:05:41): Do you think that your recent background in Teams was a selection criteria for going into health? It would really seem to me like that strong basis in Teams is really quite an asset for you in the healthcare specific role. Shelly Avery (00:05:55): Well, I of course would love to say yes. And I think it is for me, that's how I learned. It's a background that I feel like I'm an asset to my customers, but my new team is comprised of people from all different backgrounds. And so what our new team hopes to be is people who are deep in various different technology areas so that we can lean on each other's expertise when a solution isn't bound by Microsoft Teams. So maybe we need to create a bot in Azure and build it off of a SQL database and put it in Teams. And so we're crossing the entire Microsoft stack. And so, yes, I'm deep in Office 365 and Teams and getting much better into the Power Platform, but as soon as I need to build a bot in Azure, I'm like, "What, how do I do that?" Shelly Avery (00:06:59): So I need that other person on my team who is deep in that area. We're here with you guys. I know y'all are deep in Power BI. We have data scientists on our team and experts in Power BI, which I am not that, but I leverage them because when I talk to my customers, they want to create dashboards and reports that they can have actionable insights on. And so I understand the use case or the problem they're trying to solve. And then I work with my data scientists on the team to help. We come together and bring our skills together to help the customer. So it's just a super fun team. We all geek out in our own area. Rob Collie (00:07:38): Yeah. I mean, it is really a perfect little microcosm of what Microsoft is trying to do with the Power Platform in general. Isn't it? Years ago when they renamed, they Microsoft renamed the Data Insights Summit to be the Business Applications Summit, it wasn't really clear what was going on. There just seemed like one of those funky Microsoft renames. You know how Microsoft changes the acronyms for all you folks in the field, every 18 months, just for yucks. It seemed like one of those, but no, that wasn't it at all, right? There actually was a really long-term grand plan that was already clear behind the scenes there, that just wasn't really clear on the outside. Rob Collie (00:08:18): And all of these technologies coming together, the low-code, no-code or rapid development, whatever you want to call it, right? All of these tools, they enable something to come to life that every single environment, every single customer is different and their needs are different. Their fundamental technological systems that they use, all their mind of business applications, all of those are different and unique. They're unique mix. Plus then you add in the unique challenges that are going on in their particular environment. Rob Collie (00:08:45): You want something off the shelf, but at the same time, if it's not incredibly flexible, if it's not incredibly customizable, it's never ever, ever going to meet the needs of that reality. And I think Microsoft has one of the strongest long-term bets I've ever seen Microsoft make. And it's been really interesting to see it come into focus over the years. Shelly Avery (00:09:06): I'm glad you see that and a lot of people do, but we have a lot of customers. I keep saying health because that's who I work with, that there are health care pointed solutions that are out there that have a single purpose and they are off the shelf. And they do usually do a great job at what they do, but they only do one thing. And we find that almost every application or SaaS that they subscribe to or purchase, has to be connected to data or systems or things like that. And then they have 50 different apps all connected to 50 different things, and it becomes complex. And you have service contracts and everything has to be managed. And so we are pushing that we have a turnkey solution. Shelly Avery (00:09:54): We're actually saying the opposite. We have a solution that gets you 80, 85% of the way there, but then that last bit is fully customizable to make it exactly like you want. And so sometimes that's hard to tell a customer that, "Hey, you're going to pay for something and then you have to build it," or, "You have to pay someone else to help you build it." And they have to be able to see the benefit of that to keep costs down and reduce complexity and app sprawl is something that we see a lot. And so being able to streamline that is something that we definitely try to do and help our customers understand the benefit of. Rob Collie (00:10:33): Sometimes 99% rounds to zero. You have a 99% solution to something, but you simply cannot do the last 1%. And a lot of cases, that's just a failure. I think a lot of off the shelf software, even if it got to 99% of what you need, which is a phenomenal number, it's still not doing it. Plus we also got to remember that the 100% target is also not static. Things change. Even if you're 100% today, your needs tomorrow are going to be different. The ability to customize, the ability to create new integrations and new applications, even if they're lightweight within your environment, is an ongoing must. Rob Collie (00:11:16): I think approaching this as a platform while at the same time making that platform very humane, it doesn't require me to sit down and write C-Sharp every single time I need something new, that's just amazing. I think if you zoom back on all of this, it's almost obvious once you know what to look for. All of the individual systems that we buy, and this is even true of our business here at P3. We're, "Best of breed," in terms of all the line of business software that we've adopted. Best of breed, AKA, whatever we stumbled into at that particular point in time. All those little silos, those line of business silos are very competent. Maybe not excellent all the time, but they're very competent at what that silo is supposed to do. Rob Collie (00:11:59): But an overall business environment, an overall team environment doesn't stop at those silos. It's like the whole thing. It's the whole picture. It's the whole organic total across all of those silos. That's where you live. You don't live in one of them. And so integration across them of various flavors. I think we're in this new second or third era of middleware right now. And Microsoft is just so, so, so well positioned in this game. I didn't see this coming. I just woke up one day and went, "Oh, oh my gosh. Look at what my old buddies are up to." Checkmate. It's been really cool to watch. Shelly Avery (00:12:40): Yeah. It's been really awesome to be here and live it. Sometimes when you're in it, you don't see it happening. And then you look back and you say, "Wow, we've come a long way in the last three years or five years." Rob Collie (00:12:52): Yeah. Let's talk about Teams a little bit more before we switch back into health. Shelly Avery (00:12:57): Yeah, sure. Rob Collie (00:12:57): I find the Teams phenomenon to be just fascinating, which is another way of saying that I missed it a little way, right? Back when I worked on the Excel team, every few years whenever office would finish a release, there'd be like this open season of recruiting. People could move around within office, like a passport free zone. You could just go wherever you wanted. I always struggled to get people who had never worked on Excel to come work on Excel. It was scary. Rob Collie (00:13:24): They've been working on things like Outlook or Word or something like that. It's easy to be, "An expert user of Outlook." It's easy to be an expert user of Word. In other words, the difference between the 80th percentile user of those apps and the 99th percentile user of those apps, it's hard to even distinguish. You can't even really tell the difference between them and practical usage. That's not true for Excel though, right? Shelly Avery (00:13:44): Right. Rob Collie (00:13:45): An Excel expert is like a magician compared to an amateur. And so that was really intimidating, I think. That was the fundamental reason why people struggled to take the leap to come to the Excel team. They felt more comfortable where they were, but a pitch I always gave, which were about a 20% success rate, was data fits through a computer really well. A CPU can improve data. It's built for that. Whereas Outlook and Word, even PowerPoint, I've revised my opinion on all of these since then, but this is me in my early 30s. Going, all those other things, those are about ideas, and communication, and collaboration. Rob Collie (00:14:25): And that's all human stuff. And human stuff doesn't really fit through a CPU all that well. It doesn't come out the other side, enriched in the same way that data does it. Hubris in hindsight, right? I said, "There's never an end to how the improvement that can happen in Excel." Whereas something like Outlook or Word, might be essentially nearing its end state. Then comes Teams, right? Teams is the kryptonite to that whole pitch. I hear myself back in the early 2000s, Teams is all about human interaction. I guess that's what it does. Rob Collie (00:15:02): I guess, to me, it's this alien form, Teams has just exploded. People love it. It's everywhere. I mean, this is an impossible question to answer, but I'm going to ask it anyway, because it's fun to do. What is it? Why are people so excited about Teams? For a while there, it's like SharePoint held a fraction of this excitement. It's in a similar spot, the hub for collaboration in the Microsoft ecosystem. It feels like Teams has said, "Here, let me show you what that really looks like." Shelly Avery (00:15:36): Yeah. I'll do my best to try, but this is my opinion. I don't know what anybody else thinks, but I think it takes the best of the consumer world and the best of the enterprise or commercial world and puts it together all in one app. It has things that when you chat with somebody, it's like you're using a text message. So it's no different than, if you're an Apple user, you open your phone and you go to the green text message app or you go to the Teams app and it looks exactly the same. It has gifts and it has reactions, and you can put stickers and memes in there. And so it's super fun. Shelly Avery (00:16:19): But then you take that enterprise and you can also share a OneDrive link or create a meeting or send someone an Outlook invite or whatever. So it takes that enterprise and mushes it with consumerism. And so it's like taking Facebook and LinkedIn and Office and SharePoint and smashing it all into one app. And so you can have fun with it. You can build relationships with your colleagues or even people external to your organization, but then you can also build presentations and dashboards and create, and even use the Power Platform from a low-code dev perspective, right inside of Teams. Shelly Avery (00:17:02): It spans the spectrum of fun to developing brand new stuff. And so everybody can get something out of it and they can use it the way they want to use it for the purpose that they need to work on, whatever they're doing for the day. And so it can be great for various different people in various different ways. Rob Collie (00:17:28): I love that answer. Krissy Dyess (00:17:29): I have a different perspective. I came from a background of data and technical and all of that type of thing, but this Teams, really with everything transitioning to remote in a hurry over the last year, I feel like it really helps with a level of organization and communication and assets that you talked about, Shelly, to centralize all that because in a difference of data coming at you from many places, now we have communications, now we have remote teams. Krissy Dyess (00:18:05): And I love, like you said, it is fun, it's interactive. Here's where I'm struggling a little bit with Teams. I love it, but what is proper Teams etiquette in terms of like meetings and conversations? For example, I'm having a meeting and I don't want to interrupt somebody, so I'm going to put it in the chat. But then sometimes people feel like, well, the chat is still a form of interruption. I see it as a form of participation. And so I think people are still learning how to embrace these tools. Shelly Avery (00:18:38): Yeah. Well, I think that it also comes to culture. Krissy Dyess (00:18:41): Sure. Shelly Avery (00:18:41): And Microsoft has an amazing culture. We have been on a journey through Satya, our CEO, on really changing the culture of inclusivity and a growth mindset. And it's interesting when we interact with customers who don't have a very friendly and open culture. But I think you use it the way it works for you and for the people that you're working with and your culture. So if you're in a small team setting and it's friendly people, you should feel comfortable to use it the way that it makes you feel comfortable. Shelly Avery (00:19:23): But if you're in a quarterly business review with executives, I mean, think about it. If you're going to lunch with your buddies, you're going to act different than if you're going to a formal dinner with executives, right? And so you use the technology in a way that you would use real life. And so if I'm going to lunch with my buddies, I'm going to be cutting up and giving them funny gifts and patting them on the back. And if I'm in a business meeting with executives, I'm going to have my best dress on and my polite manners. So I'm going to act that way in a meeting too. Krissy Dyess (00:19:51): I totally agree with you. I've had the opportunity recently to work with the Microsoft team and I agree there's a completely different culture than what we see, even from my background, even from our culture, I mean, we're all friendly and stuff. Every organization does have their own culture and exactly what you pointed out, even within that organization, there are different levels and cadences. Shelly Avery (00:20:13): Yeah, it's crazy. So I spent the last three years helping IT organizations deploy Microsoft Teams. And I did that in the midst of COVID, in healthcare. So when you say remote work overnight, literally help telecare organizations enable 35,000 individuals for Teams over a weekend. To the question about culture, it was very difficult for some of the IT organizations to say, "Well, what should we allow our users to do?" There's sensitivity that you can set on gifts in a team. You can say, do we want them to be explicit or PG-13 or PG or G? Shelly Avery (00:20:58): And I had one organization that if there was anything to do with a gift that had to do with politics, that was seen offensive, because what if I sent you a Trump gift and you were a Biden person. I mean, how dare you do that? And so that company was very, very sensitive and they would only allow gifts at a G rating. And a G rating were like cartoons and stickers, where other organizations are like, whatever. If you don't like it, don't use it. Shelly Avery (00:21:29): So there's definitely different cultures and different organizations across the country. And so luckily, there are the controls in the back end and the administrative section on those kinds of things. And then for data too, do you want data to be shared externally or do you want people to be able to chat externally or not? And who do they want to be able to chat with? So there's lots of governance and data protection controls in the background. Krissy Dyess (00:21:58): And being a data person, what is really cool about Teams and all these things that you just described is on the backend, all of that stuff is just data. That's why you can control. That's why you can help your organization with these. And I think that's really cool. I am super excited about Teams. I was excited about Power Pivot in Excel, and I was excited with Power BI Desktop, and what you explained too, how it starts to integrate the Power Apps, the bots, all of that into this changing ecosystem of how we work, the ability to bring that from the top level all the way down to the frontline workers, to impact and drive actions, I am super excited about Teams. I can't wait to see how organizations learn more, how that they can adopt these tools, because I think there's so much that people just don't know because it is so new and it's a different way, just like Power BI was. Shelly Avery (00:22:57): I'll give you an example about that. We have this one group inside of Microsoft, it's called the [SLATE 00:23:04] team. And you know how Microsoft is with making acronyms. I have no idea what SLATE actually stands for, but what they do is they work with customers who have a unique idea and they help them build low-code or apps inside a Teams. And they built this one app called the Company Communicator. Basically what it is, is it's like a mass texting app, where I can create a little message and push it out via chat or via a Team to everyone in the organization or to a subset of people. Shelly Avery (00:23:39): And it created a cute little adaptive card where you could put a headline and a picture, and then a little message. After that got so popular, Microsoft built it into the product, right? It started from a customer, it went through a program. It was customer purpose built. Then it got so much organic growth through all of our customers loving this idea of pushing notifications. So we turned it into code and now it's in the product. I think that, that is so cool, how Teams is democratizing the ability for customers to influence product and future releases that now everybody in the world gets to take advantage of. Shelly Avery (00:24:28): So that's another thing that I just, I love about it as a product, but also we call it the Teams team at Microsoft, is they're innovating so fast and I'm just a few months out of that role and I already feel behind. I just saw a blog with what's new in Teams in August. And I'm like, I need to go and read this to make sure I know everything that's new because they just come out with so much new stuff every month. And it closes the gap, Rob, you mentioned earlier, when a product's only 99%, it's really zero. Shelly Avery (00:25:03): I think the bet on Microsoft is, it might be 99% today, but it's probably going to be 100% in a couple of months because we're innovating so fast. And your 99% today, isn't going to be your 99% in six months. And so it's a moving target, not only for the customer, but for Microsoft too. And so we want to catch up with features that are on the backlog, but the backlog just keeps growing and growing. And so the faster we can innovate and build these into the product, we will. Rob Collie (00:25:33): I just feel like if you're watching a really high stakes chess match, which I never do, but imagine that you did, to the untrained eye, this is an even game. And all of a sudden, one of the chess masters just resigned, just tips the king over and says, "Yeah, I've lost." I just feel like as a software industry, we should just take a moment and say, "Hey, Salesforce, all your other, your SAP, do y'all just want to call it, you want to just tip your Kings over, save us all a lot of trouble." I don't even work for Microsoft and I'm looking at this going, "Oh, boy." Remember, I'm not paid to say this. I really think Microsoft has really, really, really dialed it in. Rob Collie (00:26:16): I'd like to also go back to your answer about why Teams is so special. I think it was a perfect answer. Rewind 10 years, 11 years, I'm struggling to explain to people why this whole DAX and tabular data modeling thing that was only present at that time, only in the Excel environment, and only as an add in, it was, in some ways the most primitive exposure possible of this new technology. I was trying to explain to people why this was so special. And it was particularly difficult to explain it to people who had intimately known it's [4Runner 00:26:49], which was the analysis services multi-dimensional. Rob Collie (00:26:52): And really, technologically speaking, there wasn't too much about this new thing that was superior. If you looked that gift horse in the mouth and examined its lines and everything, you'd be like, there's really not much different here or it's clearly better. Now it had one thing that was clearly better, which was the in-memory column oriented compression. And that was pretty sci-fi. That was pretty cool, but it wasn't the tech. It wasn't like one of these was able to make the CPU scream at 500% capacity or something like that. It wasn't that at all. It was that this new tech fit the way humans work so perfectly. It met the humans where they were, whereas the previous one forced the human world to bend to its will. The humans had to come to it and meet it where it was. And this is a very subtle and nuanced point. Rob Collie (00:27:49): But in practice, it is everything. In practice, it means that a company like ours, that operates completely differently than the data consulting firms and BI professional services firms of the past, and really honestly, today, I think most firms are still operating that old way. We're a completely different species of a company. And we exist because these tools work a different way for the humans. And over and over and over again, this is why the ROI from Power BI is so insane when you use it the right way, when you really lean into it strikes. Your explanation about Teams, it echoed that for me. It's professional tool that fits the humans really well. Rob Collie (00:28:36): And you don't typically talk about stuff like that. If you're a technology professional, those kinds of answers, you're always looking for some sort of more hardcore answer. It's capabilities. Look at the check boxes it's got on the box, right? This other description of it fits the humans really well, it's not a good sales pitch, but in reality, it's everything. It's a difficult thing to do, right? Rob Collie (00:28:59): One of its chief strengths is also just, doesn't make a good sound bite or like, oh, okay. So now you have to wait and see it for yourself. You have to experience it. And I think that's what we've seen. Is that the people who've really leaned into Teams, they all have this surprised reaction, or they say, six to 12 months after really getting into it, as they describe how much they like it, there's this undertone of, "Yeah, it's really turned out to be amazing." You can tell that they didn't quite expect it. And now they're a convert. Shelly Avery (00:29:31): Well, I think a lot of IT organizations, they push applications out and Teams to the masses is, oh, it's just another application that IT is forcing us to use. And they're resistant to change because the last app IT pushed out wasn't great. And then they finally get in there and they do what you and I are talking about. They chat in it, they text in it, they meet in it, they have fun in it. And then six months later, they're like, "How did I do my job without this?" They enjoy it. It's easy to use, it's very accommodating and friendly to different personalities and different work types. And it's so unique in the way that you and I and Krissy can all use it all day long, every day, and we use it completely differently, and yet we all have the same opinion of it, is it works great for me. Rob Collie (00:30:30): That's the whole mark of a successful product. And one that spreads itself, right? It develops impassioned evangelists. Again, just like everyone else, I would not have seen that coming. Shelly Avery (00:30:41): You were at Microsoft from an Excel Power Pivot perspective and you now are not, and have started your own business and they're successful in that. I know people that worked at Microsoft and literally quit Microsoft just to be a YouTube star on how awesome Teams is and all the cool stuff you can do with it, and they've made a living out of it because it's a product that does so much and it's never ending in the way that it can be used and how unique it is. It blows me away when I actually saw a gentleman who was at Microsoft as a product manager and I followed him on YouTube, and then one day he said, his YouTube post was, "I am retiring from Microsoft." And he was younger than I am. I'm like, "How are you mean you're retiring?" Krissy Dyess (00:31:32): I followed the same story that you did, Shelly. I know exactly who you're talking about. What I really love, what the appeal of it to me is, is it's always these little things that people don't know that make the biggest impact. And when you're in an environment where you're not exposed to people doing those neat tips and tricks, having the ability of finding somebody out onto YouTube sharing that, and then you can bring it into your organization and start to spread it, it's really impactful because a lot of times people think, "Oh, it needs to be this complicated technical solution." And honestly, it's always the little things that people are like, "Wow, I didn't know I could do that." Shelly Avery (00:32:12): Agreed. Rob Collie (00:32:13): So let's turn the corner. Let's talk about health, Shelly. Where should we start? Shelly Avery (00:32:16): Well, when you were talking earlier about how Microsoft Teams is this new thing, I think people had an aha moment and I think there is an aha moment that is about to come in health. And I'd love to talk about that for a minute. I think it plays into your audience well because it's about data. Rob Collie (00:32:41): Very important question. Are there people involved? Shelly Avery (00:32:43): There are people involved. Rob Collie (00:32:45): Oh, okay then. We're good. We're good. Shelly Avery (00:32:46): Yeah, yeah. Rob Collie (00:32:47): Okay. All right. Shelly Avery (00:32:48): Yeah. There is interoperability of data in health. So think about, from a human perspective, heaven forbid you get in a car accident and you go to an ER and they have to bandage you up. That ER is owned by some health organization and they now have data on you, but it's not the same health organization where you go to see your primary care physician. And so how does your primary care physician know about your ER visit and how do they know what medicines that you were given and whether those had adverse reactions to you or not? Shelly Avery (00:33:22): Well, without interoperability of data, that just doesn't happen. And there is an old version of healthcare interoperability called HL7. Again, another acronym, but the new interoperability standard is called FHIR, Fast Healthcare Interoperability. The idea of FHIR is supposed to be universal so that that ER can digitally transfer that information to your PCP, your primary care physician. And so your medical record and your information can stay up-to-date with all the people that are medically treating you or for even you, like if you move to another city and you want to say, "Hey, I need all my information. I'm going to take it to my new doctor." Shelly Avery (00:34:10): And so this idea of interoperability, it's not a Microsoft thing. It's a healthcare standard that is happening in the industry. But what Microsoft has done is we have gone full steam ahead on this FHIR interoperability and built a stack of technology solutions based on ingesting data through FHIR. And we have a bunch of healthcare APIs, FHIR API being one of them, to now take all those low-code, Power Platform, Microsoft Teams, bots, and hydrate those apps with all of this data from healthcare to now be able to really unleash this data. Shelly Avery (00:35:02): So you need an app to have a rounding solution bedside in a hospital. You now have the ability to suck that data in from Rob, that he's been to the ER and his primary care physician, and now you're in for knee surgery. And so I have all that information that's aggregated from all over, and now it's in this cute little rounding app that we built off of Power Platform, or same thing with Power BI, or a chat bot in Teams. We can chat this health data and say, "Hey, is Rob's labs ready yet?" And the chat bot goes and sucks that data in and says, "Yes, here's Rob's labs. Here's the link to it." Shelly Avery (00:35:44): And so just being able to unleash that and build these apps or bots or experiences for the human to be able to interact with that data is really what we are trying to do. And so I'm super excited about it. This is a new team that I'm on and this is really what we're trying to drive. So I think it's going to be game changer for the industry. Rob Collie (00:36:09): So this is my first time hearing of this new interoperability standard. First of all, FHIR, it sounds cool. I like it. It definitely sounds like it's useful for sharing healthcare and patient information across organizations. Do you also see it as something that's going to be useful even within an organization, like between the silos, between these different systems within a single entity? Shelly Avery (00:36:32): Yes. And it will do that first before it goes across organizations. And- Rob Collie (00:36:37): Okay. Shelly Avery (00:36:38): This is a challenge internally too, because there's software technology that these electronic medical records, that your medical record, my medical records sit in at each of these organizations. And most large healthcare providers have multiple instances of these electronic medical records. Sometimes they have multiple different types through mergers and acquisitions and growth over time, or this department got an upgrade, but the other department didn't. And even amongst themselves, they can't share information with each other. And so if a call center services 10,000 patients, but they have four different electronic medical records, when Rob calls into that call center, how the heck do I know which one you're in and who you are and all that? Shelly Avery (00:37:30): So if we can use this FHIR interoperability to aggregate all of that and have it in a single place, now we've built this great call center app that knows that Rob is calling in and who you are. And I immediately have your information. I could say, "Oh, Rob, are you calling about the meds that you got from your ER visit last week?" It's very personalized. So let's personalize care. Let's have better patient engagement. Let's round with our patients and have the right information where we need it, regardless of where the original data sits. Rob Collie (00:38:01): So it's a new standard, FHIR, right? Shelly Avery (00:38:04): Yes. Rob Collie (00:38:04): And so let's pretend I'm a healthcare organization and I have, again, these, "I've got a best of breed set up." I've got a jillion different siloed line of business systems. Some of them are new, some of them are not. These older systems that I have, they're not going to be playing nice with this new FHIR standard. They haven't even heard of it, that software. So- Shelly Avery (00:38:24): That's correct. Rob Collie (00:38:25): How do I, as an organization, connect those wires when some of my more long-ended two systems aren't going to be supporting the standard natively? Shelly Avery (00:38:36): And that's part of our challenge right now. A lot of the customers that we're talking to, they see the future, they like the vision that Microsoft is painting. They want these human interactions like we're discussing, but they'll say to us, "We aren't ready for FHIR," or, "We haven't made that transition yet." Our comment back to them is we can help you get there. And it is a requirement that they get there by a certain date in the future. So why not have a company like Microsoft help them? Shelly Avery (00:39:11): Now, it's not necessarily an easy task. There are data mappings that have to happen. And a lot of these electronic medical systems are in the old standard, which we can map from the old standard to the new standard. It takes a little bit of manual work, but you only have to do it once, because once you do it once, it's in the standard and now you've unleashed that data. There's also custom fields though. Some developers- Rob Collie (00:39:38): Of course. Shelly Avery (00:39:38): Have gone into these electronic medical records and they built some custom field that doesn't map to FHIR. So then you got to have somebody who knows that. And so there is hard work to do it in the beginning. I'm not trying to say that there isn't, but we do have healthcare interoperability partners, and system integrators, and Microsoft to help these organizations get into that standard. And the new marketed term for all of this is the Microsoft Cloud for Healthcare. Shelly Avery (00:40:10): And so it's all about ingesting that data and then unleashing that data to create these great, either apps or applets, or bots, or scenarios that empower the people who either work at these systems or even for patients to be able to interact with and have better experiences for themselves. And so, you only have to do the hard work once and then it's in there. And so you're right. It isn't a turnkey, there is work that has to be done, but they're going to have to do it eventually. So we'd love to be able to partner with them and help them get to meet those regulatory compliances that are coming in the near future. Rob Collie (00:40:52): Yeah. Another example of where it's good to have a platform, right? Shelly Avery (00:40:55): Right. Rob Collie (00:40:56): If that missing 1% is interoperability, that's a big 1% that a platform like Microsoft is very, very, very prepared to help you connect those dots. It also, it's really helpful that these older systems that we're talking about, if they already had to, as you pointed out, if they already had to play ball with an older interoperability format, that's end sharp contrast to your average line of business software that has no interest in interoperability at all. T Rob Collie (00:41:26): he average line of business system is like, no, no, no, no, no. We are a silo and we like being a silo. And why would we ... Mm-mm (negative), no. We are here to hoard the valuable data that is collected in here. Mm-mm (negative), no. Even though it sounds rightfully like labor intensive, one time investment, compared to the average interoperability game that happens across the world, across all industries, it sounds like there's already a really, really, really strong starting point. That's a big, big, big point in your favor. Plus if it's going to be a regulatory standard in the future, that is unheard either. Shelly Avery (00:42:00): Right. Krissy Dyess (00:42:01): I'm curious though, as to what changed, because honestly, it is one of the reasons why I'm appointment averse, is because every time you go into a different doctor and it's really common for people to move nowadays. And you're like, oh, I got to fill out all the same forms, over and over again. In my mind, I always thought it's somewhere. Why can't it be everywhere? I guess I thought maybe there was some privacy reason that was the blocker. Has something changed there? Shelly Avery (00:42:28): You're absolutely right. And no, there is still what's called the HIPAA regulations. And so the entire Microsoft Cloud for Healthcare is HIPAA compliant. It does meet all of the requirements for that. And so the FHIR standard, FHIR mandate is under that HIPAA compliance. And so that's a U.S. regulation. It's not in the EU or others. They have their alternative to HIPAA around keeping healthcare information protected. And it's important to be able to do that. And so the old HL7 standard of interoperability was highly customizable and the new FHIR standard is less customizable, and that is how it is able to have more liquid interoperability. Shelly Avery (00:43:27): I'll give you an example. Sex and gender are two completely different things. And we know that in this day and age, but in the FHIR standard, there is a born sex and it is one or another, and you can't really change it. But in the HL7, you could add seven or eight or nine or 10 different categories for that. So when you have the FHIR standards met, born sex is a one or a zero, basically. Right now they have the other category of gender that there's a bunch of options there. And then they even have another category. And so it's creating the standard that everyone in healthcare has to meet as opposed to going in and making it where I can make 37 customizations because in my hospital, I allow them to have 37 choices. Shelly Avery (00:44:28): Religion is another one. Religion is huge. I mean, there's endless amounts of religions. In the FHIR standard, there's a set amount and then in other. And so you have to fall into either the set amount or other, and that allows for that more liquid interoperability, or that is the goal. That's the goal of FHIR. Now, I'm getting a little deeper into more of the regulatory compliance and how the standards work. There's tons more deep technical experts on healthcare compliance than I am. I'm more of a technologist than a healthcare compliance expert, but knowing how it works a little bit helps you understand why the technology is empowering or we hope in the future has the potential to empower the industry to be able to do more with this data. Rob Collie (00:45:18): Even that little deep dive there, I mean, that really, for me and for the listeners, you really just certified your bonafides there. If anyone was wondering how deep you were into this stuff. You always got to be careful. You're not the expert on that. There are people who know it much better than you. The fact that you know that much while also being on top about all those other stuff, you're in the right role. Like Holy cow. Shelly Avery (00:45:41): For my role, they did require healthcare expertise. And we have another team that partners with us that actually are folks from the industry. So we have MDs, PhDs, ex-CIOs and nurses with their RNs, from industry that work at Microsoft as the healthcare industry team, that partner with us around more of these deep healthcare needs. And when we're talking to chief medical officers or chief nursing officers, who doesn't like their title to be matched. Shelly Avery (00:46:18): So when we have a chief medical officer like Dr. Rhew at Microsoft, or a chief nursing officer, or ex-CIOs of healthcare organizations to come in and talk to current CIOs, they feel like we're talking to them from their shoes. And so my team partners with that industry team. Not that they aren't technical and don't understand how the technology works, but we are supposed to understand healthcare enough and how the technology fits for those healthcare scenarios and use cases that they need help with. Rob Collie (00:46:52): To use a metaphor, if you're going to build re race cars, it helps to hire some people who drive race cars. Shelly Avery (00:47:00): Exactly. Rob Collie (00:47:00): Right. I've seen this evolution on the Excel team over the years too. There's more and more people on the Excel team who came up not originally as software engineers, but as people in finance and things like that. Whereas I was a computer science major that had to learn Excel in order to work on the Excel team. And so it was, if you populate a team with nothing but me, back then anyway, you end up with a team of mechanics who has no idea what it's like to go into turn three cars ride. I'm using a racing metaphor. I don't even watch racing. I find it incredibly dull, but I love a good metaphor though. Shelly Avery (00:47:40): Sure. Absolutely. I think Microsoft has done that and is continuing to expand that industry team, even our president of health and life sciences comes from the industry. A lot of our leaders from even a marketing perspective or from a product development perspective, they're starting to hire from the industry. Rob Collie (00:48:03): That's wisdom. That's humility. I think 20 years ago, we would've probably seen Microsoft put some up and coming computer science guard in that role. And you still need those people for sure. Someone who grew writing C++ isn't going to know everything that they need to know. It's again, there's this whole notion of collaboration. The thing we keep coming back to. It takes a lifetime to amass the expertise to be truly good at something. Rob Collie (00:48:29): And so, guess what, you're never going to find everything that you need in one person. You're going to need people with different histories in order to be successful. And so it's simple. And yet I don't take it for granted, when I see teams being assembled this way, I've learned to respect it, that it is a necessary and good thing. It's always worth praising even if it seems like it's table stakes. A lot of people don't view it as table stakes. Still, they've got some things to learn. Krissy Dyess (00:48:55): So Teams is empowering, it's a central hub, it's a window into all these other applications, the Power BI that brings the insights, the bots, the Power Apps, the drives actions. Tell me a little bit about the Veeva. I hear about Veeva, that whole human side. Tell me how you're seeing Veeva start to make its way to help balance, I think. Rob Collie (00:49:21): And what is Veeva? Krissy Dyess (00:49:21): Yes. Veeva. Shelly Avery (00:49:23): Yeah, sure. Microsoft Veeva is what we have marketed the name of our employee experience platform. If you're a Microsoft E, you've probably seen in the past years something in Outlook called MyAnalytics. MyAnalytics was the very early stages of what is now Microsoft Veeva. MyAnalytics was a analytics engine that had some AI in it that would give you insights about your day, or your week, or your month. It would tell you, "Hey, Shelly, you were meeting with Krissy like every week for a few weeks and you haven't talked to her in a while. Do you think it's about time to reach out?" And then it will even give you a button that says, chat with Krissy now, or schedule a meeting with Krissy now. Krissy Dyess (00:50:18): And I love that. Shelly Avery (00:50:19): Yeah. It would pop open your calendar- Krissy Dyess (00:50:21): Because I would forget. You have all your lists and you have all your things. And honestly, when those things would come across, I was like, "Oh, yeah, you're right." And I was like, wait a minute. The technology is getting on top of all this stuff that I can't keep track of. It's amazing. Shelly Avery (00:50:34): Yeah. That was the beginning of it. Microsoft also came out with another tool called Workplace Analytics, which was the next step of MyAnalytics, where it would anonymize the data and send it to your manager or to your direct report and it would go up the chain all the way. So if my manager had 10 people on it, he would get a daily or weekly report that said, "Hey, your 10 people, this is what they're doing. They're multitasking in their meetings or they're working after hours. Hey, maybe you should encourage them to close the lid of their laptop at night. Let them have better work-life balance." It provides the manager with insights. Right? Krissy Dyess (00:51:17): That's right. Because these are important. This is important to your overall health of your business, your company, your culture. Shelly Avery (00:51:24): Exactly. So Microsoft Veeva took MyAnalytics and turned it into what is now called Veeva Insights. And then there is Manager Insights and Workplace Insights. And so insights is really just a rebranding and a movement from MyAnalytics in Outlook. And it's now insight of Microsoft Teams. Because Teams has that developer side of it, there's so much more that you can do with that information in Teams than it is within Outlook. And so it gives you nudges also to set focus time on your calendar or set learning time on your calendar, and it updates your status, your green, yellow, red, to focusing or away or things like that. And so it uses AI to help you know maybe when you're overworking or who you might need to collaborate with. Recently, Microsoft made a investment with a meditation company, Headspace. Krissy Dyess (00:52:30): Yes. Yes. See, this speaks to me. I love it. Shelly Avery (00:52:33): Yeah. It's built into Microsoft Veeva. What I use it for is there's a feature called your Virtual Commute. We all used to drive in and drive out of the office and you had, and I forgot about it, but you had that me time in the car. We could listen to a podcast or veg out on the radio or something, but it was some me time while you were in the car, going home from work. And we lost that when we all went remote. It's like I literally shut my computer and then I walk in the kitchen and start cooking dinner. It's like, where is that me time? And so I use the Virtual Commute and I don't use it every day. It's about a five to seven minute decompression. It says, are you ready to wrap up your day? Krissy Dyess (00:53:17): I need this. Shelly Avery (00:53:17): Do you have any last minute emails you need to send? Do you need to create any to-dos? And it integrates with Microsoft to-dos, so you can click on things and say, add to my to-do. And then it walks you through a little meditation. Yeah, Rob's got it on right now. Krissy Dyess (00:53:38): This feels amazing. You just took this conversation to a new place and adding in the music. I'm feeling it. This is just taking work to a new level. Rob Collie (00:53:50): Imagine a world of Raw Data. Data with the human element. Krissy Dyess (00:53:58): No, no. Make it come back. Shelly Avery (00:54:00): Yeah. Krissy Dyess (00:54:00): Oh, no. Can we get that? Rob Collie (00:54:06): I couldn't help it. Krissy Dyess (00:54:08): No. This is what people need. Honestly, when I heard about this, and I'm surprised when I say Veeva, people are like, "What's Veeva?" And I loved your explanation because it gave so much more detail and history, people need this. Think about like, it gives tap it into how long you've been sitting and giving you that balance. This is amazing. Wow. I'm even more excited about this. Shelly Avery (00:54:31): Well, and I think- Krissy Dyess (00:54:33): I think I can make it another 50 years in the work environment now, like [inaudible 00:54:37]. Rob Collie (00:54:37): I said, that was the plutonium battery that you needed. Shelly Avery (00:54:41): Well, and it's so cool because just like there's a Teams team, there's a Veeva team and they are just getting started. They're integrating LinkedIn learning into Veeva learning and all these other learning platforms. So you can learn right in the UI of Teams and you don't have to single sign on and then MFA and forget your password to log into all these other learning tools. And it allows you to share it right inside of Team, say, "Hey, team, I just did this great learning. I think it'd be great for you." Shelly Avery (00:55:11): And customers can upload their own learning modules to it. There's Veeva topics, which is this Wikipedia where it's self-curated information. And what is great, like we've talked about acronyms at Microsoft, every acronym has a topic page now at Microsoft. So anytime you type an acronym, it hyperlinks it. So I'm chatting you in Teams and I say FHIR. And it's like, what the heck is FHIR? You hyperlink it and it gives you an explanation of what FHIR is. Krissy Dyess (00:55:43): That's game changer in itself. Rob Collie (00:55:46): So, does it also pick up pop culture, like if I type IKR, I know, right? And someone else doesn't know what that means. Usually I'm on the receiving end of this. Someone used an acronym yesterday in a chat with me that I'm sitting there going like, "Oh, what new hipsters saying is this?" And it turned out, no, no, no, no, no. That's the customer, Rob. Krissy Dyess (00:56:08): Here's something really weird too. I love this Veeva thing. I love Teams and all this productivity and pulling all the pieces together. Gosh, back in the day, when I moved from back east to Phoenix out west and I started working at the company I was with, they actually had a meditation person that would come in every so often and they would have us stand up and do exercises. And then even to just like little chair massages and it all- Rob Collie (00:56:41): Please continue. Krissy Dyess (00:56:42): Right. Oh, this is just as amazing. I don't even know what track you got, what meditation track, but I just need this in my day. And so many other people do. Rob Collie (00:56:55): Do you see that? I feel compelled to not even hold the phone steady. I have to move it in a circle, a very gentle circle as I play it into the microphone. I didn't even know I was doing that. Shelly Avery (00:57:06): It makes you want to sway. Rob Collie (00:57:11): Yeah. In the middle of the meditation music, you heard my reminder for my next meeting go off. Oh, it really spoiled the mood. Krissy Dyess (00:57:21): And you haven't reviewed that 50 page slide deck. And then- Rob Collie (00:57:25): That's right. Krissy Dyess (00:57:26): Here it goes. Reality comes right back in. You're like, "Oh, okay. Veeva, Veeva, help me." Shelly Avery (00:57:32): I Mean, not to pitch, I'm not selling Veeva anymore. I'm a user of it, but those are also things it does. It gives you alert in the beginning of the day that says, "Hey, Shelly, here's what your day looks like. You got these six meetings. Here's a PowerPoint that you were working on, that might go with this meeting. Do you need to review it?" The Outlook team has also built in, I don't know if you guys have seen this. In Outlook now, you can create 25 minute meetings, 45 minute meetings or 55 minute meetings that either start five minutes late or in five minutes early to give that bio break meeting buffer between meetings. Krissy Dyess (00:58:14): That's right. Shelly Avery (00:58:14): Because when you're fully remote, all I do is sit around and I click the join button all day. I need to go refresh my drink, I need to stand up, I need to stretch. And so, again, we talked about culture at Microsoft earlier, and Satya has been on multiple news outlets talking about how we were the customer zero for Veeva and for this workplace balance. And it's so incredibly crazy to me how much people care about people. It's what we need to do as a human race. We just need to care about people more and allowing technology to play a part in that. It's so cool that we have that. Hopefully organizations take advantage of it for their employees. So more people can have ... It's just the little things- Krissy Dyess (00:59:06): It is the little things. Shelly Avery (00:59:06): You mentioned, Krissy, earlier, it's the little things, like five minute less meetings. It's a sign of respect. Let me use the restroom. Don't be mad at me if I'm not on at the top of the hour. I need two minutes to jump from my last meeting to switch my train of thought to get into the next one. And I think that it's super cool that I get to be a part of a company that's offering that to others. And I hope the rest of the world sees it and gets to take advantage of it. Krissy Dyess (00:59:35): This week, just recently, because I am seeing the five minute grace period, the meetings start five after, but I just, this week, because now people are starting to creep in at 10 after. So it's like everybody expects that five minute because exactly like you said, you're on back-to-back meetings, you don't get a break, but now that five minutes, now it's okay if you're 10 minutes after. Then it's going to be 15. Right? Rob Collie (00:59:59): Yeah. It's like back when I used to teach classes, I would tell people we're going to take a five minute break and we'll resume in 10. Right? Shelly Avery (01:00:08): Yeah. Krissy Dyess (01:00:09): That's right. Rob Collie (01:00:10): But if I tell you it's a 10 minute break, it becomes a 15 minute break. You can't have that. So just say, "Five minute break, but I'll see you in 10 minutes." Krissy Dyess (01:00:17): When I was training, there was no break. So all my students out there- Rob Collie (01:00:20): You just powered through? Krissy Dyess (01:00:22): Because there was so much cool things that I ... I was like, "No breaks. Let's keep going." And they're looking at me. Rob Collie (01:00:28): In the morning, everybody please come in, sit down at a seat that has a book in front of it. And in the bag next to it, is your astronaut diapers for the day. Krissy Dyess (01:00:38): Don't drink water or you might have to go. Rob Collie (01:00:41): Yeah, yeah. We have capitas. Krissy Dyess (01:00:43): I was a different person back then. Now I'm embracing the Veeva and the breaks. I feel sorry for all my students, but that's what I did, because there was so much cool stuff. No breaks. Rob Collie (01:00:52): While we're on this topic, just briefly, this Veeva thing, it seems like one of those technologies that it's not the only thing like it, for sure. But it can be used for good, but it could also be used in a very dark way, if we're not careful. When we were talking to Jen [Stirrup 01:01:08] on a recent podcast, even dashboards reports and things can be used as a form of workplace surveillance. I do see all of the glass half full potential here. Are there any concerns about customers saying, "Yeah, yeah, yeah, we'll use this for the positive, the meditation and the humane," but then they just turn around and roll it out as like the Amazon horror stories of the driver's not allowed to take bathroom breaks. And this is a means of enforcing that. Shelly Avery (01:01:36): Yeah. I think there is fear of that. I mean, I know a ton of people they put duct tape over their cameras and they don't want windows hello because they think the world's spying on them. There are just people that have that fear. Rob Collie (01:01:49): I don't know any of those. Shelly Avery (01:01:51): Yeah. But I think Microsoft is trying to protect customers a little bit in this area, that you are the only one that can see your data. Everything else is anonymous. Now, if you're a team of one and you report to your manager, obviously the manager is going to know it's you or a team of two, there are those things. But as you go up from a manager one to an M two, to a director, to a VP, and then all the way up to HR, unless you're a very, very small company, the data is segregated into demographics, and geographies, and departments, and roles, and skills, and tenure. And they slice and dice that data to learn insights as to how one population is performing or working over another population. Shelly Avery (01:02:42): I think it was one engineering group at Microsoft that was really, really being overworked. Not that they weren't all being overworked. I'm sure everybody is overworked in every position at every company everywhere. But there was this one in particular organization at Microsoft, I think they were putting in like 18 hour days. It was ridiculous. And the feedback they got from these individuals was, "We have to work after hours because we are in meetings all day." And they were individual contributor. They were coders. They needed that three to four hours to get that line of code written or tested or whatever. Shelly Avery (01:03:17): They made a meeting free Wednesdays. They literally wouldn't allow people to have meetings. Now you could collaborate with people and set your own, but no internal or manager type meetings those days. And the productivity of that group after three or four months, just completely changed. And so using the data, that's what the data is meant to be there for. Now, there are people in the world that are just going to make Ponzi schemes. They're just evil people. Data can be used, I'm sure in malicious ways. I think Microsoft is trying their best to make it so they can't be super micromanagement at least down to the individual level. Rob Collie (01:04:02): It's a certainly a very, very challenging frontier for a technology company, right? We're going there as an industry. It's inevitable. It's happening. There's no point in trying to say, "Oh, no, let's put up the firewall here." We're seeing this thing. This goes back to my original, something I said a long time ago in this discussion about how certain things don't go through a computer very well. I think this is one of those examples. We're seeing it with Facebook and YouTube. Technology companies, they're in the position now, these companies, of being the arbiters of truth and there's no algorithm. Rob Collie (01:04:36): There's actually a really great YouTube video, or this one guy in the UK talks about, there is no algorithm for truth, but we've created these platforms that are the primary disseminators of information in the world and they're completely and forever ill equipped to be arbiter of truth. Wow, look at the world that we're in. So, I don't think this particular topic is on that scale. It doesn't have that same reach. I don't think as the other things, but I think it's a cousin of those problems in some ways. It's a more solvable problem, I think, than the Facebook and YouTube problem that we're seeing. But this is where the real stuff is. Is like, how do we deploy these things in a way that is a net benefit to humanity? And not just as a net benefit to shareholders. Shelly Avery (01:05:27): Exactly. Rob Collie (01:05:28): That's attention, especially I think in the United States. It's a very different dynamic like in Europe, for instance. I can imagine the adoption profile of something like Veeva in Europe will be very different than in the USA. Shelly Avery (01:05:40): Well, it will have to meet European standards. European has GDPR around privacy laws. And so there might be different settings or features that can or can't be enabled in a product like Veeva in UK or in Europe to comply with those. Rob Collie (01:05:58): A lot of consumer products in the United States, they have to meet California standards. Shelly Avery (01:06:03): Exactly. Rob Collie (01:06:04): And then because of that, the whole country is California in terms of its standards, because you're manufacturing product. Software's a little different, it can be tuned differently in different places. Shelly, I have really enjoyed this conversation and thank you so much for making the time. You also get a gif of yourself. Why don't have to be mentioned that. Krissy Dyess (01:06:19): A G-I-F not G-I-F-T. Gif. Rob Collie (01:06:22): Right. Not a gift, but it is a gift- Krissy Dyess (01:06:24): It's a gift or a gif. Rob Collie (01:06:29): Or a gif. Yeah. Shelly Avery (01:06:29): Yay. Fun. Rob Collie (01:06:29): Yeah. Krissy Dyess (01:06:29): And you could frame it. Rob Collie (01:06:29): It needs to be a movable frame. We could sell it as a

The Ernie Brown Show
The Ernie Brown Show, It's not fat shamming

The Ernie Brown Show

Play Episode Listen Later Sep 2, 2021 6:07


Agreed! See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Issues on Appeal
Episode 57: Complexities of Agreed Extensions

Issues on Appeal

Play Episode Listen Later Aug 30, 2021 27:29


My guest is Jared Krukar (https://www.linkedin.com/in/jaredkrukar/), a board certified appellate specialist in Tampa, Florida. Jared works as a career staff attorney for the Second District Court of Appeal. (https://www.2dca.org/) The administrative orders discussed, and current as of the original publication of this episode, can be found here: First DCA (https://www.1dca.org/content/download/429513/file/19-2%20In%20re%20Agreed%20Extensions%20of%20Time%20for%20Briefs.pdf) Second DCA (https://www.2dca.org/content/download/214548/file/2013-1%20Adminstrative%20Order.pdf) Third DCA (https://www.3dca.flcourts.org/content/download/525339/file/AO3D13-01%20Amended%205-15-19.pdf) Fourth DCA (https://www.4dca.org/content/download/318/file/Admin%20order%20re%20extend%20of%20time%20for%20briefs.pdf) Fifth DCA (https://www.5dca.org/content/download/471496/file/AO5D19-02(amended)%20signed.pdf) Your host is Duane Daiker (https://www.shumaker.com/professionals/A-D/duane-a-daiker), a board certified appellate lawyer in the Tampa office of Shumaker, Loop & Kendrick, LLP (https://www.shumaker.com). You can reach him at: ddaiker@shumaker.com (ddaiker@shumaker.com). Please support our sponsor: Court Surety Bond Agency (http://courtsurety.com/). CSBA is the nation's leading surety agency specializing in supersedeas bonds. (877-810-5525). If you love the show, feel free to Buy Me a Coffee (https://www.buymeacoffee.com/Daiker)! Please follow the show on Twitter (https://twitter.com/IssuesonAppeal), and consider subscribing and rating the show on iTunes. Special Guest: Jared Krukar.

Healthy Wealthy & Smart
555: Tara Newman: How to Improve Your Relationship w/ Money

Healthy Wealthy & Smart

Play Episode Listen Later Aug 23, 2021 40:21


In this episode, CEO and Founder of The Bold Leadership Revolution, Tara Newman, talks about creating a better relationship with money. Today, Tara talks about Profit First, her EMS Framework, the common blocks that women face, and helping women feel more comfortable talking and thinking about money. How do you raise your rates? How do we shift our energy without losing money? Hear about startup burnout, improving your relationship with money, and get Tara's advice to her younger self, all on today's episode of The Healthy, Wealthy & Smart Podcast.   Key Takeaways Profit First helps women make and keep more money. “I'm really passionate about teaching women to change the way they think, and even talk, about sales.” The EMS Framework: Energy. What is the energy in which you're approaching sales? Mindset. What is your beliefs and attitudes around sales? Strategy. This is your sales process, and how you come at it with your energy and mindset. “When we feel good, good things happen.” “Shifting your energy and feeling good does not actually have to cost a dime.” “Selling is about empathy. Women are empathetic. Women are fantastic listeners. They ask great questions. These are all the things that being a good salesperson encompasses.” “The secret to sales is to keep going.” “It's okay to be uncomfortable. It's okay just to listen.” “Women think that they need to be perfect in order to make money.” “I hear from a lot of women that they don't feel safe with money. We were never taught how to make it, manage it, keep it, and use it for growth reasons.” “There is nothing more frustrating than wanting to do good work in the world, and not having anybody to do that work with or for.” “Raising your rates is actually easy. Can you communicate the value and not the amount?” “Don't take yourself so seriously. Be weird. Be yourself. That's what people want. People buy from people.”   More about Tara Newman Through her podcast, The Bold Leadership Revolution, as well as her association, The Bold Profit Academy, Tara Newman is the Leader of Leaders. She supports leaders as they embrace their ambition and leave the grind behind. Using decades of entrepreneurial experience and a Master's in Organizational Psycholgy, Tara is uniquely qualified to teach leaders to run businesses without sacrificing their health, relationships, or integrity by establishing behaviours, habits, and rituals aligned with their vision of success.   Suggested Keywords Sales, Leadership, Money, Income, Lessons, EMS, Energy, Mindset, Strategy, Profit First, Responsibility, Relationship, Communication, Expectations, Healthy, Wealthy, Smart   Revenue Goal Calculator: Profit First Revenue Goal Calculator   To learn more, follow Tara at: Website:          https://theboldleadershiprevolution.com Facebook:       The Bold Leadership Revolution Instagram:       @thetaranewman LinkedIn:         Tara Newman   Subscribe to Healthy, Wealthy & Smart: Website:                      https://podcast.healthywealthysmart.com Apple Podcasts:          https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/healthy-wealthy-smart/id532717264 Spotify:                        https://open.spotify.com/show/6ELmKwE4mSZXBB8TiQvp73 SoundCloud:               https://soundcloud.com/healthywealthysmart Stitcher:                       https://www.stitcher.com/show/healthy-wealthy-smart iHeart Radio:                https://www.iheart.com/podcast/263-healthy-wealthy-smart-27628927   Read the full transcript here:  Speaker 1 (00:02): Hey, Tara, welcome to the podcast. I am happy to have you on. Speaker 2 (00:05): Thanks for having me, Karen. I'm excited to be here Speaker 1 (00:08): And I will say right when I got on the call. So you can't see this everyone because it's a podcast, but we both have the same rode podcaster microphone. So it's like, this is destiny, but I have a question Speaker 2 (00:23): Because I think I know why we have the same ones by any chance. Did Jason help you set up your podcasting stuff or did you ask him for it? Speaker 1 (00:32): You know, and we're talking about Jason van Orden, did he? No, no. I just did a lot of research and I went to be my gosh. Speaker 2 (00:40): He is like the King of podcast equipment. Yeah. So see, maybe he helped you. I know, I think I got my, this suggestion from him. Speaker 1 (00:48): Yeah. I think I just looked around, I went to BNH and I asked them like, this is what I'm doing. BNH photo is a big store here in New York city. And I said, Oh, I'm debating between like, what's the other one that everyone uses the Yeti. Yeah. The Yeti and the route. And they were like, no, you want the rode podcaster? And I was like, I'll spend the money. I'll do it. I'm going to do it. So so yes, when we came on, I was like, Oh my gosh. And then of course we have all these people in common as well. I guess just a New York thing. I don't know. I know, but you sound less new Yorker than me. Well, I'm originally from Pennsylvania, so that explains it. That could explain it. But I was telling Tara when Tara, when we got on that, I saw her speak at Tricia Brooks speaker salon a couple of years ago, year and a half ago. And I thought to myself, Ooh, I like her mental note, like reach out to her for the podcast. And then, you know, 2020 came and, well, we all know what happened there that we do. We all know what happened there. So I feel like I already know you, but now it's a chance for the listeners to get to know you. So let's get into it before we start. Can you give the listeners just a little bit more about you about kind of why you do what you do? Speaker 2 (02:13): Oh yeah, sure. That's like a, a loaded question. I feel like I could talk about that forever, but I really teach female business owners how to increase their sales so they can have more cashflow and they can have more profit in a way that's simple and without as much stress, because I know that, you know, when I'm working with women business owners, they're usually really amazing at what they do and they're experts and they love it. And they're passionate about it, but they're not as passionate about running a business and I'm actually passionate about the running the business part and the sales part. So it winds up being like a fantastic Speaker 1 (02:55): Partnership. And I will also add that you're also profit first consultant now in my business group that I ran with physical therapists. That was the first book. I said, you have to read this book. Right. And so now this is not a profit first based podcast or anything like that. And we're going to go into a little bit more, but what, what was that like to become a consultant from profit first? Did you read the book and it changed your business? How did that come about? Speaker 2 (03:26): So I actually read the book in 2014 when it first came out before, like right before I started my business, but I wasn't, it's not an easy book to read to be honest. And I think like when I read it, I didn't really read it. Like I dabbled, I think my husband read it. And, and so I didn't actually fully read the book until after I was certified, but I had implemented profit first ish in my business in 2006 teen. And it really changed everything. It made things so much easier. I used to have plenty of revenue coming in, but the cash wasn't there, like the cashflow was off. So I get really stuck. And I remember being in a mastermind and being in my hot seat and just being like, I have no money. So that's really why I love profit first is because it really helps women keep, make and keep more money. And I think that we don't think about that when we start out, we think about like, we have this great idea. We love what we do. And it's like gangbusters out the door and then it's like, Oh wait, like there's this money component. Speaker 1 (04:38): Absolutely. And especially with women, it seems like and I, I know I'm this way. I hear this from people it's Oh, well, it's, it's the charging part. It's how do you bring up to people? What your, what your fees are and, Oh, I feel weird about it. And that the money issue, especially with women can be really sticky. I'm sure you found that. That's why you do what you do. Speaker 2 (05:06): It is really sticky. And you know, we weren't, a lot of us weren't raised with the language for money, especially for me, I'm a gen X-er, I'm 44 years old. My mom stayed home most of the time. She didn't go to work outside the home until later. And, you know, I always say like, women, women come to me and they're meeting me like 15 years into my journey leading them. And so they don't realize that I started exactly where they started. You know, even when I first started my business, that was the first time I was really responsible for my own money. I always tell people, I'm like, I'm so embarrassed. But like, even from before my husband and I were married, I just used to hand him my paycheck and be like, just pay the bills and deal with it. So that was like a really rude awakening when I started my business and my own. And that's really why I've become so passionate, not just about profit, but about helping women sell. Speaker 1 (06:04): Yeah. And, and let's get into that because you have created a framework inside the bold profit Academy, which is part one of the offerings that you have to help women and their relationship with money. And it's called the EMS framework. So we know it's not emergency medical services. I Googled that. It's not it. So what is the EMS framework? Speaker 2 (06:31): I always joke around though and say it's equally important. So the Amis framework, I'm really passionate about teaching women to change the way they think and even talk about sales, right? The way we have absorbed sales and the framing and the lens through which we look at sales is, is actually not really in alignment for a lot of women. Right? And they, you mentioned some of the challenges that they have, like asking for their rate or understanding their value or not having the confidence to have those conversations, not knowing how to have those conversations. They've never been taught. And if you were anything actually like me and my husband, when we first started our first business, we didn't even realize we have to sell things. And what happened was, is we went out of business. Well, I guess we might make sense. And we went bankrupt. Speaker 2 (07:30): Right, right. And we didn't even realize we needed to sell. So ever since then we have made it kind of really a part of our mission is to help people learn from the lessons that we learned. So I've created the EMS framework and it stands for energy mindset and strategy in that order. So what is the energy in which you're approaching sales? Is it desperation? Is it fear? Is it, you know, tense and gripping what's happening with your energy and how can we get you to shift that energy before you even do anything else? And then it's like, what is your mindset around sales? Is it that you don't believe you can sell? Maybe you don't believe you have the personality of a salesperson. Maybe you don't believe that, you know, how any of those things, what are your beliefs and your attitudes is in the mindset piece. And then in the strategy piece, that's your actual sales process. And honestly, any process will work. They're like the same seven steps, all that jazz, but it's how you come at it from your energy and your mindset that makes that the strategic action that you're going to take in your sales process. So much more powerful and potent. Speaker 1 (08:47): And what are some common things that you're coaching your clients through? Let's start with energy, right? What are some common energy blocks that women have and how do you help them get over it? Speaker 2 (09:03): So I think it's one, and I wouldn't say it's necessarily a block. I think it's our conditioning. Do you believe you deserve to feel good as a woman? Like, do you like, do women have this belief that they should, Speaker 1 (09:15): And I have to think about it. So I saw you, right. Speaker 2 (09:21): Because when we feel good, good things happen. And when we feel good, we're more confident when we feel good, we have a better self concept. You know, Brian, Tracy, he's a sales you know, well-known sales trainer. And he just says like, can you just say in the mirror, I like myself, but that's so hard for people to do, especially women to stand there and be like, I actually liked myself. Right. But when you can do that with your self concept and how you see yourself in the energy and what you bring to things that changes everything. Speaker 1 (09:53): Absolutely. And it's, isn't it sad that I had to think about that. I'm like, yeah, I think I deserve good stuff, but it shouldn't be, I really struggle with it Speaker 2 (10:03): That w they struggle with like, feeling joy and pleasure and enjoyment and just good. Right. And it's not fake good. It's not coping in wishing good. It's like, and it's not even like, what's your morning routine, but everyday when you wake up, what are you doing for your energy? Speaker 1 (10:26): Is this a question? No, I'm just [inaudible] Oh, no. What am I doing? Well, what, one thing I do that actually does help with my energy is I get up in the morning and I make my bed first thing. And that actually helps with my energy Speaker 2 (10:44): A hundred percent. Right. And I think you bring up such a great point, because when I talk about this in the, in the framework, what I want women to hear is it doesn't have to cost to me shifting your energy and feeling good does not actually have to cost a dime. It doesn't have to take a long period of time. You know, you can do it at any point during the day, you know, depending on what you're feeling and where you're at. And so if you, if everyone can just wake up in the morning and think to themselves, you know, what am I doing to care for my energy? What am I doing to feel good today? Speaker 1 (11:20): And, and that's a big, that's a very powerful shift, especially in these times when everything there's like tension on top of tension on top of tension. And you know, a lot of people that listen to this podcast are physical therapists. There are health and wellness professionals, and it's, it's stressful, you know? And so being able to do one thing that doesn't cost any more money, it may cost you a tiny bit of time. Not a lot. It takes me two minutes to make my bed in the morning, but I feel like, all right, I've accomplished something. This is good. Speaker 2 (11:56): And Speaker 1 (11:59): When it comes to, so let's say, you've, you, you are working on your energy. And that obviously flows right into the mindset part of things. Right. And oftentimes, you know, you hear a lot of women say, Oh, I don't want to like sell things. Cause it just feels like icky. I don't want to be like that used car salesman, quote unquote. And that is a mindset issue, right? Speaker 2 (12:24): Yeah. I mean, those are your beliefs that you have around, around selling. And so what I like to do is I like to reframe things. So for example, I'll hear somebody say, Oh, I need to create this opt-in so I can lore people in yeah. Loring people. And these are human beings, right? Like you're welcoming people and you're inviting them in, you're sharing something with them that can help them. And the funny thing is, is like women, I think are so naturally gifted salespeople. They just do all the things that great salespeople do it. We just haven't been presented that like, when you think of, of amazing salespeople, I just mentioned Brian, Tracy, right? Like he's a dude in there. There are really great, amazing women salespeople, but there are fewer. And the ones that maybe we think of right off the bat, or like the used car salesman, I hate going a Bob's to buy a couch. No, like that just doesn't work for me. But I think too, like thinking about when you've been, when you've had somebody sell something to you and it's felt really good to kind of shift that perception and to reframe that is really helpful as well. So not looking for the reasons to believe selling is icky, slimy, sleazy, smarmy, whatever your words are for it. And, and finding the examples of it being done really well. Speaker 1 (13:50): And do you have examples of people doing it like women in particular who are doing it very well? Speaker 2 (14:00): So I can share with you the reason why I think women will sell Stu sells really well. So it's about selling is about empathy and that completely gets missed, especially in the online business space, or like as soon as you like flip open an app and there are all these internet marketers swarming about or anything like that, you, you know, you see it in the health, the health and wellness field, it's, it's gross. It's, flat-out gross. The way that people, and I think they just particularly happen to prey on people's pain, specifically women. So we tend to see it as not feeling good. But women are empathetic. Women are fantastic listeners. They ask great questions. These are all the things that being a good salesperson in campuses. Yeah. It's not so Speaker 1 (14:52): Much the sort of vomit all over the person. This is what I do, and this is what I can offer. But instead, it's you doing a little less talking and doing a little more listening. Speaker 2 (15:05): Exactly. Exactly. So from my perspective, when we have women in the bold profit Academy and we're teaching them how to sell, we're not teaching them how to do anything different than they're already doing. We're teaching them to leverage the things that already come natural to them. And they experience success so much more quickly because we're not actually asking them to change their behavior. Speaker 1 (15:30): Right. You're just, you're kind of putting this obviously into a framework, but almost into a, I don't want to say a script, but into an outline, is that the right or no Speaker 2 (15:46): Going to correct you slightly. So the way we do things in the bull profit Academy is through frameworks. And the reason why we pick frameworks is because it gives you a guideline and then you can take that and adopt that to itself. So I'm saying to you, energy is important. You, yoga might be it for you or like throwing around heavy weights might be it for you. Or, you know, I love my Peloton, but someone else might do something else. Right. Someone might not choose to do anything physical, you know? So because I love Peloton, I take Tuneday's classes and she always says she has, I'm giving the class of classes, the recipe, and then you season to taste. And so that's why we do frameworks, because like I said, in the beginning, women business owners, any business owner goes into business because they love what they do. Right. And they're passionate about being the expert that they are. And sometimes the business piece doesn't excite them as much. So we give them a lot of frameworks and templates for them to customize in their business to do that heavy lifting Speaker 1 (16:50): Yeah. Template. That's the word I was searching for. It was not coming into my head template. Listen, and I will tell you the people who listen to this podcast, we love that kind of stuff. We love that. Having a little structure around things, you know, we're, we're a little more kind of type a like, let, give me some structure and I'll run with it. And so how has this EMS framework, how does it impact daily sales habits for small business owners for these female entrepreneurs? Speaker 2 (17:22): Okay. So there's your secret about sales? I'm not one for telling secrets, but there's a secret. The secret to sales is to keep going. So the whole point of the EMS framework is to build resiliency because if you're taking care of your energy and you're looking at your mindset before you take the strategic action, that's resiliency. So when you wake up in the morning and tired and you think, what can I do for my energy to get me to feel good? Right? You're not just rushing into your strategic tasks, feeling like hell and then burning yourself out or, or feeling like poop, right? Like you're, you're actually feeling, you're always feeling good and you're always able to move forward. You're always fueled up and really taking care of yourself so you can keep going. And that consistency is what brings in what brings in the sales and fills your pipeline. Speaker 1 (18:22): And I think you hit on something really important and it's that burnout. And I hear that a lot, especially from women who are just starting their business. They're like, I don't, I feel like I'm already burned out and I haven't even started yet. Right. I haven't even gotten out there. I haven't done the sales yet. I haven't. And I'm already burnt out. So how do you coach those women? What do you, Speaker 2 (18:46): I'm sure they come to you, but that I just actually posted on Instagram. I want to be, I'm going to host be hosting a free conversation around women and business and what I'm calling a global crisis of fatigue among women. The number one reason why women come to me is fatigue, tired, feeling like poo, whatever it is, right? Because we have been conditioned to jump through every hoop imaginable for our success. Women's sex women and success. It hasn't typically come easy. We're the first ones to raise our hands were the first ones to volunteer. We are the first, you know, we do a tremendous amount of unpaid labor throughout our, throughout our lives. And we're exhausted. And then we get into our business and we think that we don't know anything. We think we're doing it wrong. We think that you know, we should be doing it differently. Speaker 2 (19:55): The marketing messages start to come in preying on the fact that women want financial freedom, but have the things like I'm not good enough. I don't see my value. I'm not con right. Like if you, if you really think it's insidious and it's gross. And so what happens is, is there's more hoops. Well, now I need to go take this training and now I need to go take this course. And now I need to go do more. And if it's not happening fast enough, I must not be doing enough. And if it's not right, all the time over and over and over again. And none of that is true. Speaker 1 (20:28): And I have thought that all the time, I still think that all the time, Oh, maybe I should take this course, or maybe I should do this, or maybe I should. And yeah, it's, it is. And it is gross, but it is, it's hard to get that out of your head, because like you said, we've been conditioned you and, and you'll find this really interesting as a fellow podcaster. Talking about that sort of conditioning of how we, we just don't think we're good enough. A, a, a physical therapist or a physio from, from Europe said, how come, how come? I don't see a lot of women as guests on podcasts. I don't understand if we're in a profession that's 60, some percent women. How come all the podcasts are men? How come all the podcasts are hosted by men? Where are all the women? Speaker 1 (21:23): And, and and so a pod, a male podcaster, I guess, sent she's like, well, we asked 30 women, 20 of them said no, and five never got back to us. And, and so I think to myself, this is a tough nut to crack. Is it exactly what you said? I don't know anything. Is it all, this is it. They don't have time because they're raising kids, they have to do this. They have to work. And then I brought up, well, maybe it's a way they were asked because I will ask people to come on and I have had women sad, and I don't know what I would talk about. And I said, well, I wouldn't ask you to come on the podcast. If I didn't think you had something to talk about. So I coached them through and we work on a podcast together. Right. And, and so, I don't know. What are your thoughts on this? I mean, you're a podcaster. Speaker 2 (22:11): So I think, I think that there's, there's a lot of, there's a lot of things that could be at play here. However, what I do know for sure is women who are experts, don't see themselves as experts, right? Women don't see their value, and that's why they struggle to make sales present themselves. And this is whether you're in your own business or whether you're working as a professional in somebody else's business. Right. And so I know that they struggled to see their value and they struggled to see their con like that they're good enough for that contribution. I, myself, when I was first starting out in my business, I turned down oppor opportunities that I was referred for, where people were like, no tower, you need to go and do this consulting gig. And so I do some corporate consulting as well. And I was like, Oh, that company's too big. Or the topic they're asking, I don't feel confident enough on. And you know, I think that's part of, what's keeping women in a, in a financial bracket. That's, that's not sufficient. Speaker 1 (23:15): And what do we, what do we do? What do we do? That's the big question, right? What's your best advice on that? What, like, what do you tell your ladies? Speaker 2 (23:27): So I think what's important about this is that I started a couple of years ago in the mastermind that I run, where we had a quarterly money date that we just got together and we talked about money and we do this in the bull profit Academy as well. And it's okay to be uncomfortable. It's okay. Just to listen, I have had women sit on these calls, looking like they were going to vomit. That's how uncomfortable they were. But I think you have to have these conversations with the right people who understand all that's there around money. And that it's actually not about your mindset, because that's what people get told that this is, Oh, this is your money mindset. You're in scarcity. Yeah. That's why. Yeah. Right. No, that's a marketing message. I mean, yes. Women feel scarcity, but you know, I think that there's a lot to unpack around how we think about money from a generational standpoint, from a societal standpoint, from a racial standpoint, like there are so many intersections when it comes to money, you know, you know, my dad, my dad, my dad's a business owner too. Speaker 2 (24:47): And he laughs at me sometimes when I start to get a little tight fisted, because he's like, you're just being a refugee Tara. This is like the refugee in our family. Like, cause my grandmother fled Poland and it like in 1920 and he's like, you're not in the shuttle anymore, Tara, like you can, you know, and I'm like, that's right. Like they do. I, I, you know, we, we feel that way and it's not always ours that we're carrying, like our parents have passed down messages or grandparents have passed down messages, society. We don't have the language for money. We feel shame around it so much shame around money. Women think that they need to be perfect in order to make money. They think they have to have the perfect family to be successful. They think they have the perfect marriage. They think. I mean they, the stories. Right. And I think that if you can find a safe environment to talk about that so much more and get that support as possible. Speaker 1 (25:42): Yeah. I think that's wonderful, wonderful advice for, for people out there and it doesn't have to be formal. I mean, you can have like a group of, of girlfriends or fellow entrepreneurs that you've, that you trust and that you feel, you can talk about these issues with, because it is hard and I'm gen X as well. And it's the same thing. My mom, wasn't working for most of my childhood and then went back to work a little bit later. And, and it is, there is this, Oh, I don't know if I deserve to make that much money or I don't know, Oh, this seems expensive. Or if I run things even by my parents or something like, Ooh, that seems like a lot, Oh, I, how could you charge so much? How could, and so those messages get stuck in the brain, you know? So it, it does take a lot of work to get that unstuck. Speaker 2 (26:36): I will also say, this is where profit first comes in really handy because it gives you language for money. And it gives you a system for money that if you just do the steps and you just do the system, it takes a lot of I find any system in any structure calms. My nervous system makes like literally my nervous system calms down. And so having that structure for my money calms my nervous system way down and allows me to approach my money from a much different perspective. Speaker 1 (27:10): Yeah. We, in the PT world, we would call that a SIM, which stands for safety in me. So throughout your day, you have Sims, which are safeties in me or dims, which are dangers in me and from a pain science standpoint it is hypothesized that the more dims you have during your day then Sims, you may feel more pain, especially if you're a chronic pain suffer. So we try and have those have more Sims introduced into, into one's life to outpace the dims. That's actually really good. Speaker 2 (27:40): Interesting, because I hear from a lot of women that they feel, they don't feel safe with money. They don't feel responsible with money. We were never taught how to make it, manage it, keep it, and use it to for growth reasons. Like those were things that were not, that were not taught to us. Speaker 1 (27:59): Yeah. And I, I will say like using profit first using that system, I started using that a couple of years ago and I was like, Oh, I do have money. Oh, I see how it works. Oh, when it comes to paying my taxes, I'm not stressed out. Like I turned my quarterly taxes up, it's right there and I just pay it. And it's so like, I feel like so light and I do have a history of chronic neck pain. And, and I will say, this is for me a big, it's like a super SIM for me, because I don't feel that anxiety and stress and around tax time, because I know it's there, I've already done it. It's true. And, and it just makes such a huge difference, but you're right. There is that conversation needs to be had for women around their safety, with money and with sales and with, with confidence around all of that. It's hard. And the thing that's so Speaker 2 (29:03): Interesting about women too, is that they do such a great job suffering in silence. I'm sure you see this. Speaker 1 (29:09): Yeah, yeah. Right. Yeah. Right. Speaker 2 (29:14): Bring in silence and not asking for help. You know, not wanting to receive support. I know a lot of women that I work with feel like they need to know it all or they need to get it all right. Speaker 1 (29:27): Yeah. No, you hit it. You hit the nail on the head before when you said it has to be perfect before I do something. And that was me for years and years, if I'm going to put a program out, it has to be perfect. I have to have, it's all planned out, needs to be perfect. And it doesn't not at all. And it doesn't. And just having, knowing that was very freeing. Speaker 2 (29:50): Yeah. I watch I watch women put a lot of obstacles in their way and, and I know I get that. We do that for self protection. Yeah. To feel safe, to, you know, to, to not fail to, you know, not look silly or foolish or whatever our stuff is. And at the same time we really need to get on with that. Yeah. And we need to find a way to be courageous and brave now more than ever Speaker 1 (30:25): Agreed. Agreed. It's just, yeah. And what would you say to people who are like, Oh, it's so daunting. I'm just not even going to bother. Speaker 3 (30:33): Yeah. Speaker 2 (30:36): Well, I mean, we can have a conversation around what's that costing you [inaudible], you know, and, you know, peel back the layers to that because I can guarantee you that, you know, that's affecting you in ways beyond which you're even able to conceptualize because you're, you're shutting it down and you're closed off. I mean, ultimately people have to be willing to do this and which is why, you know, around the work that I do, it's really important to me to always reiterate to people. It's okay. To be scared. It's okay. If a spreadsheet feels intimidating it's it's okay, like, please don't overthink this, please. Don't overcomplicate this. I am giving this to you the way it is so that all you have to do. I do, we do a lot, like a lot of it in the bowl profit Academy, we do a lot of calculators that like just takes all of the, all of that stuff out of it. Right? Like that charge that, all that charge out of it. If I could just remove all of the barriers and all of the obstacles, I will do that. Speaker 1 (31:50): Yeah. And that's what I think that's what women need, you know, it's what we need to feel good is to say, how can you take away using the analogy? So before, can you take away some of those hoops? Speaker 2 (32:04): Yep. Yeah. Don't don't you dare go into your money without checking on your energy first and your mindset. Do your EMS before you look at your money. Speaker 1 (32:15): Yeah. And that's, that is good advice because we we've all gone into our bank account when I did it the other day, which has happened. What's just happened here. And, and whether that be good or bad. Right. but, but you're right. You have to use that energy that in order to, to get into the sales process, to make money, to help more people, right. Like you said, women want to get into business so they can help people. Well, guess what, if you don't have a good framework what's going to happen. Speaker 2 (32:53): There is nothing more frustrating than wanting to do good work in the world and not having anybody to do that. Good work with her for I have been there. Yeah. Speaker 1 (33:06): And it's an, and then that can lead to this sort of demoralizing mindset. The, I failed. I can't do it well. Oh, well, I was, this is, this is, I'm done. Speaker 2 (33:17): Well, here's where women, here's where women go. I must be charging too much. Yes. So I'm just going to lower my prices. But the reality is, is we just need to up our skillset. Speaker 1 (33:31): Yeah. And, and I I'm guilty of that. I've certainly done that in the past. I'm like, Oh, I'll just, Oh, well maybe I'll just lower the rate. And that will get more people to come in. And it doesn't, it doesn't Speaker 2 (33:45): No, because then you're looking at perceived value of what you're selling. Right. People will be like, why is she, so why is she so cheap? Right. Speaker 1 (33:54): Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely Speaker 2 (33:56): Not know what she's doing. She must not be confident. That's Speaker 1 (34:00): So true. And, and I try, and you know, a lot of physical therapists now are, are sort of using an out of network model or a cash based model where the person pays you up front. And, and it is hard for women to raise their rates. Men are like, after six months, I raised my rate by $50. Oh, I raised it again. No problem. No problem. Women are like, so how do you, what do you say to someone who's like, I can't raise my rates. Speaker 2 (34:29): All right. So there's like the practical piece complex. I mean, it isn't, it's not, so I think there's a couple of things at play. I think if you think that you can't raise your rates, raising your rates is actually easy. You change the number, you put it on your, your chart or your website, right. I mean like the actual act of raising your rates is easy. Maybe we need to do some talking around like how much should you raise them to and whatever. But the reality is is can you communicate the value and, and not the amount, it's not about the amount, it's about the value. And it's about understanding how to talk to people, have a sales conversation and overcome whatever concerns they have around that. So it's, it's not actually a price issue. It's again, it's are you comfortable with selling issue? Yeah. Speaker 1 (35:27): Yeah. And that's like you said, where the listening and the empathy and stuff, that women are so good at any way that they're probably doing naturally, they just don't know it. They just need a framework. They just need a little bit of guidance. Speaker 2 (35:38): Think about someone who, who, or something you've just bought recently. And like, you just couldn't wait to buy it or you couldn't wait to give them your money. Right. Like why, what happened? What was that conversation like? And inspect that because someone is, is like excited and can't wait to give you their money, you know? Gosh, if somebody's back is bothering them. Or I had sciatica last year, that was like my worst hell ever. So, you know, I would have paid millions of dollars for someone to make that go away. It wouldn't have even mattered. I wouldn't even cared if you were like, I can help. You'll be like, awesome. Speaker 1 (36:13): Yeah. And, and I hear that so many times over and over again from people who are not physical therapist or not health and wellness professionals. And I think it's, I love that you said that because I think it will give the people a little more confidence. Speaker 2 (36:30): Yeah. I mean, if you're, if a lot of your audiences like physical therapists and chiropractors, I will tell you that, like I had, I've worked with a couple of chiropractors and they're like, I went to the chiropractor convention, I'm going to be facetious and silly. I went to the chiropractor convention and I came out with this 4,000 page manual on how to run my back office and my front office and all this stuff. And I'm like, great. So what are you going to do to actually stand out? Because the 5,000 other people that went with you got the same 4,000 page manual. And so I find a lot with health practitioners that I work with, they really it's beneficial to get outside of that health practitioner loop and, and, and look to find strategies from other industries talk to people who are outside that industry. Speaker 1 (37:23): Yeah. Yeah. Great advice. I Speaker 2 (37:25): Mean, that's with any industry, but I just specifically know sometimes that, you know, or, or in health industry too, you, you tend to have a lot of regulations and quote unquote rules. Right. So you'd get very stuck in like, well, the regulation, the regulation, the regulation. And so I sometimes come in and I'm like, Speaker 4 (37:47): Is that really the regulation? Speaker 1 (37:54): But yeah, it is that, that is true. There are some perimeters from which we have to work around, but you can still work around them and be successful and, and have a better relationship with money, which is all, you know, what we're talking about here today is just to how to have a better relationship with money and how to not be afraid of it and how to move forward with your business, knowing that it's, it's part of business. Yup. Period. When we take it personally, but it's business, it's business. Yeah. It's business. And now before we wrap up, is there anything that maybe I over or that we didn't cover that you're like, Oh, I really want to, I really want the listeners to know this. Speaker 2 (38:43): I think we really we really covered a lot. Actually. We talk a lot, we talked a lot about money and sales, which is so exciting to me cause I can talk about that forever and ever and days. Speaker 1 (38:56): Well, speaking of which, where can people find out more about you to learn about when you're, when you have events and learn about your programs and follow you on social media and all that fun stuff. Speaker 2 (39:08): Okay. So the first thing that I want everybody to do is I have a resource for your crew. So if they go to the bold leadership revolution.com forward slash resources, I have a revenue goal calculator that actually you plug in your personal information, it tells you based on how much you need to make to cover your expenses. It tells you how much revenue you need in your business. And it'll plot it out with profit first. It is nifty Speaker 1 (39:39): Amazing. And we'll have that link in the show notes. Speaker 2 (39:44): Yup. I like to hang out on Instagram. So I'm at the Tara Newman and I have a podcast, the bold money revolution. Speaker 1 (39:51): Awesome. So Tara, last question, knowing where you are now in life and in career, what advice would you give to your younger self? Speaker 2 (40:03): Hmm. Don't take yourself so seriously. I'm a serious person. Like I could be super serious. And I think like if I had to do it all over again, just like be weird, you know, be yourself. That's what people want is people buy from people, right? Like you're humans are out there and they want to work with you and they want to know you in all your weirdness and all the things like just be you it's, it's really that simple. Speaker 1 (40:34): Yeah. And I remember having this conversation with someone else on the podcast and said, you know, you want to be the Flamingo in a sea of penguins Speaker 2 (40:45): For sure. Speaker 1 (40:46): Because there's like you said, there's someone out there who's looking for you for you. And if you're like everyone else they're going to miss you. Speaker 2 (40:54): They, yes, there are people who are out there. And I think here's the thing when you beat, when you're more, you, you S like other people feel seen. And when you tell your story and you can connect with people, like just super quick, I just had a recent ADHD diagnosis at 44. And I, when I was like, Oh, I think I need to get an evaluation done. I went and we went to listen to the whole bunch of podcasts and I just typed in ADHD. And there were all these women podcasters with ADHD, and I would listen him. And I would cry because I didn't know how to, I was so normalizing what was not normal, but I lived with it my whole life. And I didn't know. And them sharing their story helped me see, like, what was normal, what wasn't normal, what I needed to talk to my doctor about places where I could be releasing guilt that I felt about things. And so I think it's just so important. Speaker 1 (41:59): Yeah. And thank you for sharing that. That's so, so powerful for for people to know that there are others out there going through the same thing and that yes, you're seen in your herd. And I think that's a great way to end the podcast. So thank you so much, Tara, for coming on, and I really appreciate it. And I can tell you that all the listeners do too. Speaker 2 (42:21): Thank you so much for having me Speaker 1 (42:23): And everyone. Thanks so much for listening in today. Have a great week and stay healthy, wealthy and smart.  

The Bert Show
They Agreed Marriage Wasn't For Them...But Now He Wants To Propose

The Bert Show

Play Episode Listen Later Aug 17, 2021 5:10


He and his girlfriend have been together for nearly 10 years, and he wants to propose to her.Here's the thing: Early on in their relationship, they agreed marriage wasn't for them. And now that his mind has changed, he's worried about her reaction.Any advice? See acast.com/privacy for privacy and opt-out information.