Conversations About Art

Novelist Jonathan Lethem is the author of Girl In Landscape, Chronic City, and Brooklyn Crime Novel, as well as ten other novels. His stories and essays have been collected in seven volumes. His fifth novel, Motherless Brooklyn, won the National Book Critic's Circle Award, and he has been the recipient of The Berlin Prize and a Macarthur Fellowship among other honors. He lives in Los Angeles and Maine.He and Zuckerman discuss writing stories about Art, growing up as a child of a painter, where freedom is found, mirroring the world, doing his tricks, looking, kinship and generation, waiting and wondering, play, denial of independence, and memory and savoring!

Glenn Lowry became the sixth director of The Museum of Modern Art, New York (MoMA) in 1995. He has overseen the physical transformation of the Museum's campus through two building campaigns that have more than doubled the size of MoMA's galleries, quintupled its endowment, created an education and research center, and inspired a new model for the presentation of modern and contemporary art. Lowry has championed innovation, both onsite and online, to grow MoMA's annual visitation to nearly 3 million in the galleries and 35 million across moma.org. He expanded the Museum's curatorial departments, with the addition of Media and Performance, and supported MoMA's intellectual growth by creating new research programs like Contemporary and Modern Art Perspectives (CMAP).In 2000, he led the merger of MoMA with the contemporary art center PS1, and in 2015, he worked with Thelma Golden to introduce a joint fellowship program with the Studio Museum in Harlem for rising professionals in the arts. Lowry is a strong advocate of contemporary artists and their work and he has lectured and written extensively in the support of contemporary art, on the role of museums in society, and on other topics related to his research interests. He currently serves on the boards of The Robert Rauschenberg Foundation, the Clark Art Institute, the Art Bridges Foundation and The Kiran Nadar Museum of Art, as well as on the advisory boards of the Istanbul Modern and the Mori Art Museum. Lowry is a fellow of the American Academy of Arts and Sciences and a resident member of the American Philosophical Society.He and Zuckerman discuss courting risk, creating the time to think, controlling the process, professional guidelines, the goal for museums to be independent and private enterprises, thinking that opens possibilities, being fearless, passion, and why art matters!

Cultural journalist Jori Finkel is based in Los Angeles and won the 2023 Rabkin Prize for excellence in the field. She is a regular contributor to The New York Times and the West Coast contributing editor of The Art Newspaper, covering artists and the art world with particular attention to gender issues. Previously, she was a senior editor of Art+Auction magazine in New York. She developed and co-produced the Emmy-nominated 2018 PBS documentary Artist and Mother, working to flip the script that devalues art made by parents and establish an art historical lineage for artist-mothers. She is also author of the critically acclaimed book It Speaks to Me: Art that Inspires Artists, called “an argument for why art museums matter” by New York magazine. She speaks at museums and art fairs and appears on broadcasts and podcasts as part of her larger project of making contemporary art more accessible.She and Zuckerman discuss turning an advocation into a vocation, opening doors for people, realizing your mission, being in the wrong place, communicating with people, advocacy, following her curiosity, the consensus making machine of the art world, ways of resistance, motherhood, artworks you keep coming back to, not complaining, taboos, female genius, the germ of something, and art as a safe space for dangerous thinking!

Los Angeles based, Australian artist Ricky Swallow uses ordinary materials to create precisely rendered objects that he then casts in bronze. The unique works that result are expressions not only of the objects' constructed forms, but also of the process of transformation by which an inert grouping of things becomes a sculpture. Swallow is invested in equal measure in the making of things and the testing of concepts; in hands-on work with cardboard, tape, wood, and rope and the mediated potentials of the foundry; in the immediacy of craft and the austere elegance of geometric abstraction. He elicits a questioning state of mind by establishing geometries and juxtapositions that just manage to exceed what the eye perceives as possible. Like mysterious, hieroglyphic numbers or letters translated into three dimensions, his works are as indelible as they are evocative.He and Zuckerman discuss how we see our own work, working against the logic of an object or image, when people remember your work, doing less, the availability of abstraction, meaning, conducting yourself with authenticity, sculptors as underdogs, being married to an artist, what makes him happy, space and order, meditation, the radical idea of doing nothing, figuring things out himself, a time-tested belief system, leaving your mark, not destroying anything, self-guided work, collecting, what is parallel to making!

This week on About Art, Heidi Zuckerman is joined by Madeleine Haddon, Curator for V&A East, part of the Victoria and Albert Museum's major new expansion project in East London. Together, they discuss V&A East's upcoming openings, including the phased development of a dynamic working museum store offering an innovative "order an object" service that reimagines public access to collections.The conversation explores the museum's deep commitment to accessibility, community engagement, and inclusivity - as well as its new commissions program, designed to foster meaningful dialogues between historic collections and contemporary artistic practice. Madeleine and Heidi reflect on the evolving role of museums in the twenty-first century, and how institutions like V&A East are reshaping the ways audiences encounter, experience, and connect with art and culture.

Cecilia Alemani is an Italian curator based in New York City who is currently at work curating the 12th SITE SANTA FE International, titled Once Within a Time and opening in June 2025.  Since 2011, she has been the Donald R. Mullen, Jr. Director & Chief Curator of High Line Art, the public art program presented by the High Line in New York City. From 2020 to 2022, she served as Artistic Director of the 59th Venice Biennale, where she curated the acclaimed exhibition The Milk of Dreams, which received over 800,000 visitors. More recently, she has curated several exhibitions, including Tetsuya Ishida: My Anxious Self, the Japanese painter's first American retrospective, presented at Gagosian Gallery in New York (2023); Making Their Mark, the first public presentation of the Shah Garg Collection (New York, 2023; Berkeley Art Museum and Pacific Film Archive, 2024); and Anu Põder: Space for My Body, Poder's first solo exhibition presented outside of Estonia at Muzeum Susch, Switzerland (2024). Alemani also served as Artistic Director of the inaugural edition of Art Basel Cities: Buenos Aires in 2018 and was the curator of the Italian Pavilion at the 57th Venice Biennale in 2017. Over the past twenty years, Alemani has developed expertise in commissioning and producing ambitious artworks for public space and unusual sites. She and Zuckerman discuss the act of learning, not being curatorially snobby, the rhythm of nature, giving up control, objects having their own life, the realness of cultural uncertainty, the 1948 Venice Bienniale and moving between the past and the future, female voices, the artist as client, the land of enchantment, and that art matters because it is our life!

Jennifer McCabe is a distinguished curator, educator, and museum director with over 20 years of expertise in leading cultural institutions, fostering innovative curatorial practices, and supporting artists. Currently, she serves as the Director and Chief Curator of the SFO Museum, the only airport-based institution accredited by the American Alliance of Museums. Under her leadership, the museum operates more than 25 exhibition sites throughout the San Francisco International Airport, engaging millions of visitors annually. Its acclaimed Aviation Museum and Library houses a permanent collection of over 160,000 artifacts documenting the history of commercial aviation.Previously, McCabe served as Director and Chief Curator of the Scottsdale Museum of Contemporary Art, where her eight-year tenure garnered significant acclaim, including consecutive "Best Museum" awards from the Phoenix New Times. Her curatorial vision and writing delve into themes of intersectional feminisms, site-responsive art commissions, and groundbreaking artist interventions.She and Zuckerman discuss SFO, what one can do with all the time and headspace one had spent fundraising in a museum, bypass doors, how what she learns can be applied in other organizations, shaking up societal associations of craft, expanded perspectives, having an audience of millions, moments of pause, a journey through space, joy, incorporating breaks from art talk, being forever changed by parenting, seeing things through someone else's lens, daily practice, the pause, and being your own support system!

Artist Claire Tabouret studied at the École des Beaux-Arts, Paris. Motivated by a sensitivity to the passing of time and the floodgates of vulnerability opened by human relationships, Tabouret's painting practice is paced between periods of productive urgency and quiet reflection, and animated by layers, fabrics, and full, loose brushstrokes. Her hydrous palette is suspended somewhere in the ether between the synthetic hues of makeup and subdued tones of the earth, simultaneously referencing the natural and artificial ingredients of representation. Tableaux depicting bodies in confrontation, portraits, paintings of assemblies of people from young debutants to migrants at sea, and landscapes are often washed in color fields, alternately evoking ine possibility of anywhere and site specificity.She and Zuckerman discuss her studio practice and a typical day, where her ideas come from, living in California, comfort and risk, ‘fluff,' motherhood, music, what art has to teach us, and her selection to design new, contemporary stained-glass windows for the newly renovated Notre Dame Cathedral.

Stephan Jost is an art museum director who is currently the Michael and Sonja Koerner Director, and CEO of the Art Gallery of Ontario (AGO) in Toronto. Previously, he served as Director of the Honolulu Museum of Art in Hawaii, the Shelburne Museum in Shelburne, Vermont, and the Mills College Art Museum in Oakland, California. He also held curatorial positions at the Allen Memorial Art Museum at Oberlin College.  Jost serves as Past President and Nominating Chair on the Board of the Association of Art Museum Directors (AAMD) and is also on the Board of the Gershon Iskowitz Foundation. He previously served as Vice Chair on the Board of Hampshire College, where he was Board member from 2018-2022, as well as 2008-2016. He holds a BA from Hampshire College and an MA from the University of Texas at Austin in Art History. He is originally from East Lansing, Michigan and is a citizen of Canada, the USA, and Switzerland.He and Zuckerman discuss original intention, cultural urgency, having a young and diverse museum audience, when people fall in love with culture, why people care about art, being in the presence of great works of art, the optimism of the extraordinary, the innovation of decorative arts, the maintenance of power, keeping our humanity, how museums can build social cohesion, and the power of inconsistency!

Carrie Scott is an English American curator and arts commentator based in London. Over the past two decades, she has worked globally with galleries, artists, and collectors. She began her career as curator of the Hedreen Gallery at Seattle University, later becoming Director of the James Harris Gallery and Nicole Klagsbrun Gallery in New York. In 2009, she launched Carrie Scott & Partners, collaborating with artists like Nick Knight, John Pawson and Walter & Zoniel. She has curated exhibitions worldwide, including in South Korea, Japan, London, and New York. In 2024, she founded Seen, a platform promoting emerging artists and transparency. She and Zuckerman discuss art and entrepreneurship, embracing messiness, the impact of people saying yes, expanding the artworld, how art makes you feel better, how art is not rewarded in society, Seen.art and understanding ourselves!

Art collector and philanthropist Komal Shah, originally from Ahmedabad, India, migrated to the US in 1991 to study computer science in California. After completing her Masters at Stanford, she earned an MBA from the Haas School of Business at Berkeley, eventually holding positions in the executive suites of Oracle, Netscape, and Yahoo. In 2008, Shah left the tech industry to focus on philanthropic pursuits. She then began developing the Shah Garg Collection with her husband and tech entrepreneur Gaurav Garg, solidifying a vision for the collection's emphasis on women artists in 2014. Today, they are focused on amplifying the voices of women artists and artists of color through the Shah Garg Foundation.She and Zuckerman discuss activism, mistakes, excellence, motherhood, ungendered works, the seduction principle, how only 12% of works collected by museums are by female artists and how women artists make $.10 on a dollar, how to build a collection, great artists, and the social reality of guilt!

Christiana Ine-Kimba Boyle is a New York based art dealer and curator. Ine-Kimba Boyle was recently appointed partner and co-owner at CANADA gallery in New York. Her previous positions include leading the online sales strategy at Pace gallery as Senior Director and Global Head of Online and working as a Senior Director at CANADA. Her latest curated exhibitions include Beyond the Frame: Abstraction Reconstructed, a two-person exhibition featuring Denzil Hurley and Reginald Sylvester II and “Rest and Reprieve: A Window into Creative Solitude,” a group exhibition benefitting Eighth House Residency. She and Zuckerman discuss being a teenage intern at the Metropolitan Museum of Art, the long term impact of exposure  to art before age 24, online art sales during COVID, combing art and technology, strategies of access, her Black Out dinner series, opportunities for artists to rest, Matcha (!) as a morning ritual, Canada as a verb and a noun, managed growth with a global footprint, artist's loyalty, and Hudson River School artists!

This week on my podcast, “About Art” I spoke with the British contemporary artist Robert Montgomery. Montgomery is well known for his work in public space. He makes light works, billboard poems, fire poems, paintings and watercolors. His work brings text art closer to the language of poetry. He represented the UK in the 2012 Kochi Biennale and the 2016 Yinchuan Biennale. His work is in museum collections across the world including the Albright Knox in New York, and the Museum of Fine Arts Houston. He has had solo museum projects at the Aspen Art Museum in Colorado, Oklahoma Contemporary in Oklahoma City, and the Cer Modern Museum in Ankara. His work was recently included in the Musée du Louvre exhibition “La Suite de l'Histoire” in Paris. His work is hugely popular on the internet, the piece “The People You Love Become Ghosts Inside of You” has been shared online more than 200 million times.   He and Zuckerman discuss the gentle 90 percent, kindness, grief, love outlasting death, the temporary nature of power and wealth, modernist poetry, how to be a painter and poet at the same time, devotional reflection, having conversations with people across time, the magic in the mundane, light, and mentorship!

A compilation episode of the answer to the question "why does art matter?" Thank you for being apart of our community, and we will see you in the new year. Happy holidays!

Dr. Shauna Shapiro, PhD, is a best-selling author, clinical psychologist and internationally recognized expert in mindfulness and self-compassion. She is a professor at Santa Clara University and has published over 150 papers and three critically acclaimed books, translated into 16 languages. Dr. Shapiro has presented her research to the King of Thailand, the Danish Government, Bhutan's Gross National Happiness Summit, and the World Council for Psychotherapy, as well as to Fortune 100 Companies including Google, Cisco Systems and LinkedIn. Her work has been featured in the Wall Street Journal, Forbes, Oprah, NPR, and the American Psychologist. Dr. Shapiro is a summa cum laude graduate of Duke University and a Fellow of the Mind and Life Institute, co-founded by the Dalai Lama. Her TEDx Talk, The Power of Mindfulness, has been viewed over 3 million times. She and Zuckerman discuss mindfulness, meditation training in Thailand, looking for the magical, self love, how subtle is significant, beginning again, loving awareness, attitude of flexibility, kind attention, intentional practice, glimmers and micro moments of goodness, hardwiring happiness, finding love, how art connects us to what we have forgotten, what it means to be human and free!

Alex Anderson lives and works in Los Angeles, California.  Anderson uses the delicate medium of ceramics as his main vehicle to explore the sublime experiences that make up both the man-made and natural worlds, as well as deeper, more complicated issues of race and cultural representation. His artworks combine a dexterity in the medium with a confluence of baroque imagery and compositions, Japanese pop art references, and current contemporary fashion and design trends in order to probe the depths of reality, illusion and identity.He and Zuckerman discuss his relationship to ceramics, reflectivity and sparkle, what it means to be alive in the present moment, the metaphysical aspects of light, empathy, history and research, personal motivation,perfection, beauty desire, and the human condition!

Marine Tanguy is the CEO of MTArt agency. At the age of 21, Tanguy became Europe's youngest gallery manager, working for Steve Lazarides, Banksy's discoverer. By 23, she launched her first gallery, De Re, in Los Angeles. Inspired by talent agencies like CAA and UTA, Marine founded MTArt Agency in London in 2015 at age 25. MTArt, a Certified B Corporation, is now the leading talent agency in the art world, working with global organizations and cities, nurturing an international community of art-lovers and collectors as well as diverse brands ranging from Apple to Hyundai and even the World Cup. The agency has expanded to the US and Middle East, earning recognition on the Sunday Times Power List. Supported by investors like Frederic Jousset and Saul Klein, MTArt was valued at over £35 million in its last fundraising.Tanguy is a passionate advocate for the role of the artist in our society, she wishes for art to become a part of our everyday experience. She published her first academic paper age 27 years old with Warwick University supporting a new way to value public art projects within cities. She also published her first book with Penguin encouraging a more active participation in our visual culture, all the while teaching visual literacy. Her talks include three TED Talks on how to transform cities with art, how social media visuals affect our minds and how harmful are the visual biases we see daily.She and Zuckerman discuss her talent agency for artists, diversified revenue streams, visual literacy, visual pollution, artist selection criteria, consensus, vulnerability in leadership, and what she's excited about!This episode is sponsored by Jil Sander.

Mary Weatherford is one of the leading painters of her generation, exploring and expanding the legacies of American abstraction. Over the last three decades, Weatherford has developed a rich and diverse painting practice: from early target paintings in the 1990s based on operatic heroines, to expansive, gestural canvases overlaid with neon glass-tubing that have been a presence in her work since 2012. With a physically embodied approach to painting, Weatherford explores abstraction as both a formal language and a poetic, personal mode of engagement with the world.She and Zuckerman discuss making paintings for other people, failure and not showing for 5 years, paintings of nothing, how she invented the neon, the physicality of her process, pursuing pink, story telling, and the continuum of art history.

Shamim Momin is the Director of Curatorial Affairs at the Henry Art Gallery in Seattle, Washington. In this role since 2018, she has overseen the Curatorial Department and organized numerous exhibitions, including the museum-wide group exhibition In Plain Sight, as well as major commissions by Tala Madani, Gary Simmons, Kelly Akashi, Donna Huanca, Diana Al-Hadid, and others. Prior to joining the Henry, she was director, curator, and co-founder of LAND (Los Angeles Nomadic Division), a nonprofit public art organization committed to curating site- and situation-specific contemporary art projects. In that role, Momin organized over 100 exhibitions, projects, and programs with more than 300 artists, presented across the United States and internationally. Previously, Momin served for more than ten years at the Whitney Museum of American Art (New York) co-curating the 2004 and 2008 Whitney Biennials and overseeing the Contemporary Projects series. In addition to her extensive publication history, she serves regularly as guest lecturer, panelist, and advisor for a wide array of organizations and events. Momin was Adjunct Professor of Contemporary Art for Williams College for the 2007 and 2008 Semester in New York program, and is currently Affiliate Professor of Art at the School of Art, Art History and Design, University of Washington.She and Zuckerman discuss life transformations, never not thinking about something, founder's fatigue, regret, being useful, learning to listen,   accepting the world, personal responsibility, purpose driven work, humanity, being a mom, mentorship, what the next generation sees, and art as a means to be human!

California-based artist Ed Templeton is known for his interdisciplinary practice, most notably of photographs documenting people and street life of Huntington Beach, California, intimate portraits of his wife, and paintings depicting the psychological complexity of American suburbia. He first gained recognition as a teenage skateboard prodigy in the late 1980s and taught himself to photograph on the fly while actively touring for competitions. All of Templeton's subjects come from his own life: “Everything I've ever shot has just been on the path that I've been on, be it skating or travel or street photography.” Blurring portraiture and landscape, Templeton works across photography, painting, and drawing to explore the ugliness, banality, and beauty of the familiar everyday world.   He and Zuckerman discuss permission, looking at ourselves, what's weird about Orange County, finding skateboarding, the absence of free will, seeing things before they happen, managing fear, the flow state, mining his own archives, hyper reality, and collaborating with his wife!

This is the second “Ask Me Anything” episode with our founder and host Heidi Zuckerman, a globally recognized leader in contemporary art, a prolific content generator, and a fierce advocate for Why Art Matters! In addition to being the first woman to build two art museums and raising nearly $200M dollars for museums, she has had hundreds of courageously authentic conversations with artists and other people she finds interesting that are featured on five years and 150 podcasts and in four volumes of her Conversations with Artists book series. She also recently authored Why Art Matters: The Bearable Lightness of Being “your bed-side table masterclass in how to find a way towards understanding ourselves thru art.”In this episode she answers audience questions that range from those about the practices of the art world to who Heidi would love to have dinner with and on her podcast. It's another deeply personal share from a woman who encourages us all to live our values and to connect with art to make our lives better!

Melissa Chiu is Director of the Smithsonian's Hirshhorn Museum and Sculpture Garden, the National Museum of Modern and Contemporary art. Since her appointment in 2014, she has advocated for contemporary art through the Museum's exhibitions, acquisitions, and public programs, with landmark exhibitions of work by some of today's most important artists. A native of Australia, Chiu earned her bachelor's degree in art history and criticism from the University of Western Sydney in 1992 and her master's degree in arts administration in 1994 from the University of New South Wales. She completed her Ph.D. with a dissertation on contemporary Chinese art at the University of Western Sydney in 2005. Chiu has authored and edited several books and catalogues on contemporary art, and has lectured at Harvard, Yale, Columbia, the Museum of Modern Art, and other universities and museums.She and Zuckerman discuss radical accessibility, running our nation's Museum of modern and contemporary art, the difference between TV and museums, the humility of motherhood, and learning from artists.

Art historian and curator Anne Radice. Radice previously served as Director of the Division of Public Programs at NEH. Prior to joining NEH in July 2018 she served as Executive Director of the American Folk Art Museum. From 2006 to 2010 Radice served as Director of the Institute of Museum and Library Services. Her previous government positions include Acting Deputy Chairman for Programs and Special Advisor to the Chairman of NEH, Chief of Staff for the U.S. Department of Education, Acting Chairman and Senior Deputy Chairman for the National Endowment for the Arts (NEA), Chief Arts Advisor for the U.S. Information Agency, and Curator for the Architect of the U.S. Capitol. Radice is a recipient of the Presidential Citizen's Medal, the Forbes Medal, and the NEA's Chairman's Medal. She holds an MBA from American University, a PhD in art and architectural history from the University of North Carolina, Chapel Hill, an MA from Villa Schifanoia School of Fine Arts in Florence, Italy, and an AB from Wheaton College.She and Zuckerman engage here in a deeply personal conversation about living a life of service, “the general public,” true leadership, listening, and leading with your heart.

Los-Angeles based artist Diedrick Brackens is best known for his woven tapestries that explore allegory and narrative through the artist's autobiography, broader themes of African American and queer identity, as well as American history. Brackens employs techniques from West African weaving, quilting from the American South and European tapestry-making to create both abstract and figurative works. Bracken's work the reasoning beast (2021)—currently installed in OCMA's exhibition Color is the First Revelation of the World—exemplifies Bracken's intimate use of color and material, where washed in hues of black, blue, and purple, a figure embraces a goat to soar through the night sky.He and Zuckerman discuss his relationship to craft, weaving, and storytelling, how he starts, breaking rules, why cotton matters, Texas, his titles, abstraction and figuration, and what role hope and empathy play!

Los Angeles-based artist Andrea Bowers has made art that activates for more than 30 years. Bowers works in a variety of mediums, from video to colored pencil to installation art, and explores pressing national and international issues. Her work combines an artistic practice with activism and advocacy, operating as chronicler of contemporary history. A passionate ecofeminist, the symbiotic relationship between women and ecology is a recurring theme in her work, central in Femme Trans-Corporeal Fantasy (Victory to the Goddess) (2023), a monumental work on cardboard that entered OCMA's collection in 2023.She and Zuckerman discuss her relationship to craft and how it impacts her relationship to activism, feminism, her drawing practice, engaging with the public, what she most values, aging, doing less, And what questions art should be asking!

Tony Marsh is an artist and educator who earned his BFA in Ceramic Art at California State University Long Beach in 1978. After graduating he spent three years in Mashiko, Japan at the workshop of Tatsuzo Shimaoka. Marsh completed his MFA at Alfred University in 1988. He teaches in the Ceramic Arts Program at California State University Long Beach where he was the Program Chair for over 20 years. He is currently the first Director of the Center for Contemporary Ceramics at CSULB. He was named a United States Artists Fellow in 2018, an honor awarded to outstanding contributors in American Arts and Letters. His work is the collections of museums across the globe including the Metropolitan Museum of Art, NY; Museum of Art and Design, NY; Los Angeles County Museum of Art; Oakland Museum of Art; Gardiner Museum of Art, Toronto; Museum of Fine Arts, Houston; San Jose Museum of Art; ASU Art Museum Tempe; the Foshan Museum of Contemporary Art, Foshan, China; and the Orange County Museum of Art.He and Zuckerman discuss being a teacher, making art, making a real impact, doing things with your whole heart, the influence of his mom, living and training in Japan, things that are encoded with success, how simple things are hard to make, marriage vessels, fertility vessels, and appropriate shapes, suspending time, magic, failure, craft, notions of taste, and taking no out of your vocabulary!

Stephen Reily is the Founding Director of Remuseum, an independent research project housed at Crystal Bridges Museum of American Art, which seeks to promote innovation among art museums across the United States. An attorney and entrepreneur, Reily served as Director of the Speed Art Museum in Louisville, Kentucky from 2017 to 2021 where he invigorated a newly renovated museum with a mission of public service and dramatically increased both contributed revenue and accessibility. Under his leadership, the Speed introduced a new “Speed for All” free family membership for anyone for whom cost is a barrier to entry; initiated its first paid internships; issued its first annual Racial Equity Report, specifying the museum's standing and commitments on staffing, acquisitions and exhibitions, programming, and more. During his tenure, the Speed worked with Guest Curator Allison Glenn and Community Engagement Strategist Toya Northington to present the exhibition “Promise, Witness, Remembrance,” cited as a model of relevance and innovation as the museum responded in real time to the killing of Breonna Taylor and a year of protests in Louisville. A longtime supporter of museums and the arts, Reily currently serves on the Boards of the Creative Capital Foundation and the American Federation of Arts.He and Zuckerman discuss museums as legacy businesses, the unsustainable nature of the current economic model of museums, innovation, the Director's role, artists and what we can learn from them, new ideas and initiatives, what's working, and of course why art matters!

Mehak Vieira is the Director and Founder of Jahmek Contemporary Art, a dynamic platform promoting a critical and provocative dialogue about artistic and visual expression in Luanda, Angola. Raised in Luanda, Viera founded the gallery alongside Jardel Vieira in 2018 with the vision of strengthening the artistic infrastructure in Angola for the next generation. Over the past five years, she has worked with emerging and established artists with ties to the country to build an ambitious program of exhibitions, events, fair presentations and more. Her leadership has gained international recognition of Jahmek Contemporary Art, building its reputation as a prominent player in the African contemporary art scene by exhibiting at major events including the Venice Biennale 2024, Art Basel 2022, Art Dubai 2022 and Arco Madrid 2021, among others. She and Zuckerman discuss not coming from an art background, the Angola art scene, being entrepreneurial, why their program matters for the country, elitism, access to information, archiving the narrative, legacy, love, art fairs, how things come together, courage, and why art matters!

British sculptor Antony Gormley's (Sir Antony Mark David Gormley OBE RA) work has been widely exhibited throughout the UK and internationally with recent exhibitions at Musée Rodin, Paris (2023); Lehmbruck Museum, Duisburg, Germany (2022); Museum Voorlinden, Wassenaar, Netherlands (2022); National Gallery Singapore, Singapore (2021); Schauwerk Sindelfingen, Germany (2021); Royal Academy of Arts, London (2019); Delos, Greece (2019); Uffizi Gallery, Florence, Italy (2019); Philadelphia Museum of Art, Pennsylvania (2019); Long Museum, Shanghai (2017); and Forte di Belvedere, Florence, Italy (2015) among others! Some permanent public works include the Angel of the North (Gateshead, UK), Another Place (Crosby Beach, UK), and Inside Australia (Lake Ballard, Western Australia). Gormley was awarded the Turner Prize in 1994, the South Bank Prize for Visual Art in 1999, the Bernhard Heiliger Award for Sculpture in 2007, the Obayashi Prize in 2012 and the Praemium Imperiale in 2013. In 1997 he was made an Officer of the British Empire (OBE) and was made a knight in the New Year's Honors list in 2014. He is an Honorary Fellow of the Royal Institute of British Architects, an Honorary Doctor of the University of Cambridge and a Fellow of Trinity and Jesus Colleges, Cambridge. Gormley has been a Royal Academician since 2003.He and Zuckerman discuss the state of the world, art as a form of witnessing, what can sculpture do, being in the world but not of it, moving through space with awareness, active meditation, what art is for, recognizing our own vitality, discovering ourselves as strangers, and the urgency and hopefulness of being alive right now!

Tess Lukey is co-curator of the inaugural Boston Triennial and Associate Curator of Native American Art at The Trustees of Reservations (The Trustees), the nation's first and state's largest land conservation nonprofit. Lukey, an Aquinnah Wampanoag tribal member and lifelong New Englander, previously worked for the Museum of Fine Arts and the Society of Arts and Crafts in Boston, and the John Sommers Gallery in Albuquerque, New Mexico. She has also completed fellowships at the Peabody Essex Museum in Salem, Massachusetts, and the Hibben Center for Archaeology Study and the Maxwell Museum of Anthropology in Albuquerque. Lukey is also a traditional potter and basket weaver practicing the techniques of her own Indigenous community.She and Zuckerman discuss reciprocity, pairing artists and experts, how artists can address things in ways that no one else can, teaching people about making, her relation with clay, finger weaving, physically working with a place, being an artist, a maker, and a member, how art needs people, gaining family and realizing who she is, working with the land, guiding museums about respecting tribal sovereignty, her studio visit strategy, magical moments, making ceramics sing, and what can contain all the knowledge in the world!

American artist Charles Gaines' body of work engages formulas and systems that interrogate relationships between the objective and the subjective realms. In his drawings, works on paper and photographs he investigates how rule-based processes and systems construct the experiences of aesthetics, politics, and language. By employing multi-layered practices, including images, texts, and grids, as well as working in a serial character, Gaines examines image structures while critically questioning forms of representation.   He recently retired from the CalArts School of Art, where he was on faculty for over 30 years and established a fellowship to provide critical scholarship support for Black students in the M.F.A. program. His work has been the subject of numerous exhibitions in the United States and around the world, most notably at Dia:Beacon, San Francisco Museum of Modern Art, The Studio Museum, Harlem NY, and Hammer Museum, Los Angeles CA. His work has also been presented at the 1975 Whitney Biennial and the Venice Biennale in 2007 and 2015. In addition to his artistic practice, Gaines has published several essays on contemporary art, including Theater of Refusal: Black Art and Mainstream Criticism (University of California, Irvine, 1993) and The New Cosmopolitanism (California State University, Fullerton, 2008). In 2019, Gaines received the 60th Edward MacDowell Medal. He was inducted into the National Academy of Design's 2020 class of National Academicians and the American Academy of Arts and Letters in May 2022. In 2023, he received an honorary doctorate from his alma mater, the Rochester Institute of Technology in New York. He and I spoke about legacy, continuous learning, creating context and systems, paradoxes of perception, feeling versus intellectual exercises in art, the language of art and what is possible, tantric Buddhist art, chance as a method, philosophy of aesthetics, trees, and AI!

Nicholas Baume is the Artistic & Executive Director at Public Art Fund in New York City since 2009. A native of Australia, his career began in Sydney with Kaldor Public Art Projects and later the Museum of Contemporary Art. He was Contemporary Curator at the Wadsworth Atheneum in Hartford, Connecticut, before moving to Boston to join the Institute of Contemporary Art as Chief Curator. He and I discuss being artist centric, the American museum industry, the moment his eyes opened to contemporary art, how art can catalyze feelings you don't know you have, creating moments of access, sharing art with the world and serving the public, what defines success, what public art needs, authentic experiences, fundamental values, civic scale projects, the importance of diplomacy, and risk taking!

Bjorn Geldhof is Director of the PinchukArtCentre. Founded in September 2006 by businessman and philanthropist Victor Pinchuk, the PinchukArtCentre is an international hub for contemporary art committed to developing the Ukrainian art scene while generating critical public discourse as a whole. Since war broke out in Ukraine in 2022 they have held important exhibitions including When Faith Moves Mountains, a major group exhibition with over 45 artists opening 143 days after the beginning of the full-scale Russian invasion, focused on Ukraine as a country open to the world and celebrating its deep roots and relation to Europe. The PinchukArtCentre invests in the next generation though the Future Generation Art Prize and the PinchukArtCentre Prize, awards for young contemporary artists aged 35 or younger. Their collateral Venice Biennale project this year, Daring to Dream in a World of Constant Fear, will be held at the Palazzo Contarini Polignac from April 20th until August 1st, 2024. The exhibition weaves a tapestry of stories and dreams gathered from artists affected by war globally.He and Zuckerman discuss sharing risk, how art saves lives, art not as leisure but also essential part of living life, cultivating a next generation of artists, changing the way people think, the urgency of making art, offering the opportunity to speak, think and feel, knowing that today can be your last day, the urgency of having great thoughts, the role of hope, and the opportunity to dare to dream!

Digital content creator Amanda McCreight specializes in digital storytelling, utilizing photography and filmmaking as her medium to challenge conventional norms, guide discourse, and foster meaningful connections. McCreight started the brand Aytuhzee noting that she “wanted to create a persona around feeling free to try everything from A to Z. Aytuhzee is many things…the Full Expression of whatever medium I'm feeling called to!” Additionally, she is the Co-Founder and Creative Director of All Day Running Co. where she collaborates with entrepreneur Jesse Itzler to curate immersive wellness and running experiences. Together they craft unforgettable events that leave participants not only with memories, but also with a newfound sense of empowerment. McCreight is a self-described lover, dreamer, and existential thinker dedicated to living the full spectrum of life's color and emotions in art and in business.She and Zuckerman discuss course correcting your life, saying yes, living a life full of color, finding middle ground, creating brands, giving things your all, flow state, balancing consumption and creation, what we deserve, a vision board coming to life, the first yes, speaking things into existence, public pitching ideas, practicing looking, and why art matters!

Since the early 1990's, Charles Long has explored the possibilities of sculpture through a rich vocabulary of materials, colors, images and shapes. Incorporating references to art history, popular culture, nature and his own experiences, Long's work embraces modernist convention as a means of connecting inner and outer realities, forming pathways between one's mental and bodily experiences and the surrounding environment. Through his many bodies of work over the years, the artist has consistently confronted formal parameters associated with sculpture as obstacles to push beyond, seeing modernism's trajectory as unfinished and full of possibility.He and Zuckerman spoke about metaphysical research, why things are happening, the secret of teaching, refinding art on his own terms, psychedelics, Donald D. Hoffman of UC Irvine, “wisdoms of the masters” and access to pure being, what it's like to die, what he has to offer, wanting everything he makes to be sacred, not finishing anything, and making art that you don't have to talk about!

New York-based writer LJ Rader is the person behind the social media account ArtButMakeItSports, which features images of sports compared to fine art. He works full-time in the sports world as a Director of Product at a sports data and technology company.He and Zuckerman discuss his curatorial choices, unique moments, a sports related lens, sports equality, feedback he gets, his favorite artists, his image filing system, feelings on AI, meme fuel, the legacy of art, and of course why art matters!

American artist Rodney McMillian's paintings, sculptures, videos, and performances address the African-American experience while examining race, gender, and class in a broader political context. Aspects of his work negotiates between the body of a political nature and the politic of a bodily nature. McMillian modifies familiar and found objects into new – he offers an alternative reality that reveals how past ideas relate to the present. He is now a professor of sculpture at the School of Arts and Architecture at UCLA. McMillian's work can be found in the permanent collections of the Los Angeles County Museum of Art, UCLA Hammer Museum, and the Museum of Contemporary Art Los Angeles, The Orange County Museum of Art, among others.He and Zuckerman discuss the role of chance in his paintings, intimacy and residue, what landscape can mean, issues of class and taste, retitling, existing within uncomfortable contexts, “hitting it on the one,” napping, the physicality of making art, the present moment, working with a voice coach, and the thrill of accomplishing hard things!

Art historian and curator Stephanie Stebich is the Margaret and Terry Stent Director of the Smithsonian American Art Museum. She was named director of the Smithsonian American Art Museum in January 2017. Stebich serves on the Smithsonian's Capital Board as well as the Smithsonian-London Strategic Advisory Board. In May 2018, she was named co-chair of the Smithsonian American Women's History Initiative. Before coming to Washington, D.C., Stebich was executive director of the Tacoma Art Museum for 12 years. Under her leadership, the museum underwent a major renovation that doubled its exhibition space, and secured major collection gifts, including the Haub Family Collection of Western American Art, 300 masterworks from the 1790s to the present by Charles Bird King, Thomas Moran, Frederick Remington, Georgia O'Keeffe and others. She was assistant director of the Minneapolis Institute of Arts from 2001 to 2004 and assistant director at the Cleveland Museum of Art from 1995 to 2001.She and Zuckerman discuss feeling at home in museums, taking risks, making a museum free, house favorites, why museums buy certain things, finding the optimal location for an artwork, having a broad definition of art to include craft, mentorship, how to get a job, speaking up while active listening, America as a hopeful experiment, artists as makers of hope!

Art historian and curator Stephanie Stebich is the Margaret and Terry Stent Director of the Smithsonian American Art Museum. She was named director of the Smithsonian American Art Museum in January 2017. Stebich serves on the Smithsonian's Capital Board as well as the Smithsonian-London Strategic Advisory Board. In May 2018, she was named co-chair of the Smithsonian American Women's History Initiative. Before coming to Washington, D.C., Stebich was executive director of the Tacoma Art Museum for 12 years. Under her leadership, the museum underwent a major renovation that doubled its exhibition space, and secured major collection gifts, including the Haub Family Collection of Western American Art, 300 masterworks from the 1790s to the present by Charles Bird King, Thomas Moran, Frederick Remington, Georgia O'Keeffe and others. She was assistant director of the Minneapolis Institute of Arts from 2001 to 2004 and assistant director at the Cleveland Museum of Art from 1995 to 2001.She and Zuckerman discuss feeling at home in museums, taking risks, making a museum free, house favorites, why museums buy certain things, finding the optimal location for an artwork, having a broad definition of art to include craft, mentorship, how to get a job, speaking up while active listening, America as a hopeful experiment, artists as makers of hope!

Cliff Einstein is the founding partner of Dailey Advertising with a noted history of creating positions for some of the world's major brands. Throughout a career spanning a half century he has received a long list of industry honors, among them, the American Advertising Federation naming him their Leader of the West.  Cliff is Chair Emeritus of the Board of the Los Angeles Museum of Contemporary Art (MOCA)  and a Trustee of Otis College of Art and Design. He is a recipient of the California Governor's Victims' Service Award for his work with the Rape Foundation, and he is the Marketing Chair of the Jewish Community Foundation. Cliff and his late wife, Mandy, have been listed in Art and Antiques “100 Collectors of America,” and they have been featured in a wide range of international publications as noted collectors and patrons of contemporary art.He and Zuckerman discuss his collection of 100 knives, the difference between commercial and fine art, his rules for collecting including meeting the art before you meet the artist, what roles he and Mandy each play in forming their collection, asking people what they like, not to be missed sites to shop for art, what work he bought back after selling it, being philanthropic and what people want back for what they give, his relationship with MoCA and an analysis of the current Los Angeles museum environment, and buying things you don't instantly like!

Mindy Shapero creates lively, meticulous sculptural and canvas works comprised of materials as various as studio scraps, spray paint, gold, copper, and silver leaf. Her works on canvas are formed by stencils sourced from discarded sculptural bits, and portions of those stencils eventually find their way back into the artist‘s sculptural work. In this process, Shapero transmutes negatives from past sculptural pieces into positive shapes that form the bedrock of her cosmic abstractions. Shapero's repeating motifs—irregular rectangles and ovals that resemble “scars” or ruptures in the surface— are highlighted through the artist's application of delicate gold leaf, an adornment dating back more than 8,000 years in the canon of art history. She is interested  in the combination of old and new techniques. Shapero's techniques harken back to the artist's personal history rooted in the DIY aesthetics of punk counterculture.She and Zuckerman discuss her approach to narrative, spirituality, alchemy and transformation, surprising herself, the responsibility of being climate aware, repurposing, being a hoarder, titling as poetry, duality, color as everything, how hard it is to talk about art, the process of making, rules, and making what you want to see!

Sotheby's Principal Auctioneer Oliver Barker joined Sotheby's in 1994 moving to the Contemporary Art department in 2001, rising to Chairman, Sotheby's Europe, Senior International Specialist in 2016. He is a key figure on the rostrum at the major auctions in both London and New York. Barker oversaw the iconic sale of Banksy's "Love is in the Bin," famously shredded by the artist moments after hammering for $1.04 million in 2018. Additionally, Barker participated in the livestream hybrid auctions – The Webby Awards introduced during the pandemic. Notable achievements include the sales of Francis Bacon's "Triptych Inspired by the Oresteia of Aeschylus'' for $84.6 million, Botticelli's "Portrait of a Young Man Holding a Roundel" for $92.2 million, and this year, the sales of Impressionist, Modern, and Contemporary art that brought  $597 million in a single night.He and Zuckerman discuss three decades in a career, representing the company and the vendors, relationships with objects, the aesthetic experience, how should one start a collection, art as a place of solace, long term relationships, the YBA and the London art world of the early 1990s, the work that happens outside of the sales, the profound influence of art, and little know aspects of how he spends his personal life!

Journalist Charlotte Burns is the founder of Studio Burns, which creates and commissions original editorials and provides strategic advice. She is also the co-founder of the Burns Halperin Report, which analyses equity in museums and the art market. She also produces the weekly podcast "The Art World: What If...?!" for Art& at the New York advisory, Schwartzman&. The second season of the show launches 18 January 2024. Previously the executive editor of In Other Words, a weekly newsletter and podcast (2016-20), she was the US news and Market editor for The Art Newspaper (2009-16) and has written for publications including The Guardian, Cultured and Monocle magazine. Before that she worked for galleries including Anthony d'Offay and Hauser & Wirth. She and Zuckerman discuss podcasting, grace in space, the imagined idea of America, not feeling at home, maternity, having ego leave, living life, how dreams need to evolve, hope and dread, an appetite for conversations, and talking about feelings!

Fred Tomaselli has shown his work in museums, biennials and galleries around the world, including MoMA, MoCA, the MET and SFMoMa. Biennials include the Whitney Biennial, Berlin Biennial, and the Lyon Biennial. Solo museum shows include the Whitney Museum at Philip Morris, The Aspen Art Museum, The Brooklyn Art Museum, and the Orange County Art Museum. Tomaselli is known for his intricate, engulfing images of earthly and cosmic realms made by suspending collage and painted imagery as well as an unorthodox array of real-world materials in thick layers of clear, epoxy resin. These works on wood panels mix snippets of botanical, ornithological and anatomical illustrations cut from books and magazines, prescription pills, medicinal herbs and psychoactive plants with the artist's own designs. Tomaselli sees his mixture of psychedelic imagery and substances as windows into hallucinatory universes: “It is my ultimate aim to seduce and transport the viewer into the space of these pictures while simultaneously revealing the mechanics of that seduction.”He and Zuckerman discuss a shared love of nature, what art can do, what drugs and birding have in common, the shelf life of art, altering perception and dislocated, settling for oblivion, nocturnal experiences, community, a sample choir, and AI!

Tim Griffin is the Executive Director of the Industry. He joined the organization in June 2023 and continues the organization's commitment to reimagining art's relationship with its publics. Previously, Griffin was executive director and chief curator at The Kitchen (2011–2021) where he developed projects across disciplines with artists such as Chantal Akerman, ANOHNI, Charles Atlas, Abraham Cruzvillegas, Joan Jonas, Ralph Lemon, Aki Sasamoto, Wadada Leo Smith, Tyshawn Sorey, and Danh Vo, among others.  On the occasion of The Kitchen's 50th anniversary, Griffin initiated a capital campaign to renovate its building as a platform for the next generation of artists, raising roughly $22 million. From 2003 to 2010, Griffin was editor of Artforum, organizing special issues on performance; the museum in a contemporary context; art and poetry; and art and commerce. His own writing has appeared in publications from Bomb to Vogue, including catalogue essays on choreographer Maria Hassabi (MoMA, 2016), artist Ralph Lemon (Guggenheim Museum, 2016), and John Baldessari (Tate Modern, 2009). Griffin also edited a volume of selected writings on Wade Guyton (JRP), and has a forthcoming book on artists' changing engagement with site-specificity (Sternberg Press). In 2015, he was awarded the insignia of chevalier of the Order of Arts and Letters.He and Zuckerman discuss contemporary opera, popular audiences, how we know what we see, the luxury of clarity, art criticism, proximity, anxiety around popular culture, being in partnership in the art world and rethinking your own habits!

Writer and curator Ebony L. Haynes, originally from Canada, is a Director at David Zwirner gallery in New York and runs 52 Walker. Haynes was a recent visiting curator and critic for Yale School of Fine art in the Painting and Printmaking class of 2021. She also runs an online “school” where free professional practice classes are offered to Black students, world wide.  Prior to joining David Zwirner, Haynes served as director at Martos Gallery and Shoot The Lobster NY & LA, and was responsible for many critically acclaimed exhibitions including Invisible Man, epigenetic, EBSPLOITATION, and The Worst Witch. Haynes sits on the boards of the New Art Dealers Association, and Cassandra Press.She and Zuckerman discuss sliding door moments, the pitching of 52 Walker, good versus great curating, the importance of a true team, approaching studio visits, research based practices, writing by hand, and what she hopes for!

Chicago-based artist Tony Lewis's practice focuses on the relationship between semiotics and language to confront social and political topics such as race, power, communication, and labor. Lewis creates drawings using graphite, pencil and paper, mediums the artist uses to trace and develop abstract narratives and reflections on the notion of the gestural. By pushing the boundaries of drawing and the possibilities of abstraction, he expands the use of the “material” of language. He currently has a solo exhibition at the Orange County Museum of Art/OCMA.He and Zuckerman discuss labor and work, changing the way you think about making art, saying yes, listening to music on repeat, “keep going,” things that exist outside of art, motivational language, caring enough, nicknames, and the precision of human nature!

American curator Lauren Haynes is Director of Curatorial Affairs and Programs at the Queens Museum. Prior to joining the Queens Museum, Haynes worked at museums across the United States including Crystal Bridges Museum of American Art and the Studio Museum in Harlem. Haynes is a specialist in contemporary art by artists of African descent – her curatorial vision aims to challenge traditional narratives and push boundaries within the art world, embracing both established artists and emerging talents, bridging the gap between tradition and innovation. Haynes was a 2018 Center for Curatorial Leadership fellow and a recipient of a 2020 ArtTable New Leadership Award. Since 2022, Haynes has been a member of the board of the Association of Art Museum Curators (AAMC) and AAMC Foundation.She and Zuckerman discuss having work study jobs at college museums, navigating artist interactions and needs, deliberate care, growing and developing a contemporary program, tv as a hobby, dreaming of rest and moments of pause, looking for patterns, and how kids confidently talk about art!

Shigeru Ban is a Pritzker Prize winning architect and humanitarian. Ban has developed a unique style known for its blend of traditional Japanese architecture with elements of American Modernism. One of Ban's notable achievements is his pioneering work in using recycled materials, particularly paper tubes, as building components. He believes that architecture should serve the needs of society, especially in times of crisis. Notable projects include the Paper Dome in Japan, which provided temporary housing after an earthquake, the Cardboard Cathedral in New Zealand, Centre Pompidou-Metz in France, the Japan Pavilion Expo 2000 in Germany, and the Aspen Art Museum. Ban's architectural practice showcases a harmonious blend of functionality, aesthetics, and environmental consciousness.Ban and Zuckerman discuss humanitarian architecture, using wood, escaping from the influences of our teachers, inside and outside, experience sequencing, looking for problems to solve by design, form finding, not being about style, and humbleness!

Sumayya Vally is the founder and principal of Counterspace, a Johannesburg-based architecture and research studio. Counterspace is committed to developing a design language that acknowledges and resonates with the African continent. In 2019, Counterspace was invited to design the 20th Serpentine Pavilion in London, making Vally the youngest architect ever to win this internationally renowned commission. She recently curated the first Islamic Arts Biennale in Jeddah. Vally is currently collaborating on the design of the Ellen Johnson Sirleaf Presidential Center for Women and Development in Monrovia, Liberia, the first presidential library dedicated to a female head of state, where she will oversee the scenography, pavilions, and exhibition spaces. She and Zuckerman spoke about imagination, fear of design, metaphors of healing, dialogue with place, the first Islamic Arts Biennale, having a life in a city, ingredients of gathering, architecture of ritual, dynamic restoration, everyone is welcome, beauty, gathering and belonging, and having a practice of hope and optimism!

Pritzker Prize-winning American architect and educator Thom Mayne is the founder of Morphosis, an innovative architecture, urbanism, and design collective. Named after the Greek term for ‘to form or be in formation' – Morphosis has gained recognition for its sustainable designs. Notable projects include the Perot Museum of Nature and Science in Dallas, Emerson College in Los Angeles, New York's Cooper Union building, and the Orange County Museum of Art. Alongside his architectural practice, Mayne has been actively involved in education and academia, as he played a pivotal role in establishing the Southern California Institute of Architecture. He and Zuckerman spoke about how LA is a midwestern city, the museum as a cultured event, community making, formed architecture, American architects, having a voice, being what you are instead of what you do, license to dream, authentically seeing yourself, being a humanist, and the profound and enduring power of artistic activity!