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The reception to our recent post on Code Reviews has been strong. Catch up!Amid a maelstrom of discussion on whether or not AI is killing SaaS, one of the top publicly listed SaaS companies in the world has just reported record revenues, clearing well over $1.1B in ARR for the first time with a 28% margin. As we comment on the pod, Aaron Levie is the rare public company CEO equally at home in both worlds of Silicon Valley and Wall Street/Main Street, by day helping 70% of the Fortune 500 with their Enterprise Advanced Suite, and yet by night is often found in the basements of early startups and tweeting viral insights about the future of agents.Now that both Cursor, Cloudflare, Perplexity, Anthropic and more have made Filesystems and Sandboxes and various forms of “Just Give the Agent a Box” cool (not just cool; it is now one of the single hottest areas in AI infrastructure growing 100% MoM), we find it a delightfully appropriate time to do the episode with the OG CEO who has been giving humans and computers Boxes since he was a college dropout pitching VCs at a Michael Arrington house party.Enjoy our special pod, with fan favorite returning guest/guest cohost Jeff Huber!Note: We didn't directly discuss the AI vs SaaS debate - Aaron has done many, many, many other podcasts on that, and you should read his definitive essay on it. Most commentators do not understand SaaS businesses because they have never scaled one themselves, and deeply reflected on what the true value proposition of SaaS is.We also discuss Your Company is a Filesystem:We also shoutout CTO Ben Kus' and the AI team, who talked about the technical architecture and will return for AIE WF 2026.Full Video EpisodeTimestamps* 00:00 Adapting Work for Agents* 01:29 Why Every Agent Needs a Box* 04:38 Agent Governance and Identity* 11:28 Why Coding Agents Took Off First* 21:42 Context Engineering and Search Limits* 31:29 Inside Agent Evals* 33:23 Industries and Datasets* 35:22 Building the Agent Team* 38:50 Read Write Agent Workflows* 41:54 Docs Graphs and Founder Mode* 55:38 Token FOMO Culture* 56:31 Production Function Secrets* 01:01:08 Film Roots to Box* 01:03:38 AI Future of Movies* 01:06:47 Media DevRel and EngineeringTranscriptAdapting Work for AgentsAaron Levie: Like you don't write code, you talk to an agent and it goes and does it for you, and you may be at best review it. That's even probably like, like largely not even what you're doing. What's happening is we are changing our work to make the agents effective. In that model, the agent didn't really adapt to how we work.We basically adapted to how the agent works. All of the economy has to go through that exact same evolution. Right now, it's a huge asset and an advantage for the teams that do it early and that are kinda wired into doing this ‘cause you'll see compounding returns. But that's just gonna take a while for most companies to actually go and get this deployed.swyx: Welcome to the Lane Space Pod. We're back in the chroma studio with uh, chroma, CEO, Jeff Hoover. Welcome returning guest now guest host.Aaron Levie: It's a pleasure. Wow. How'd you get upgraded to, uh, to that?swyx: Because he's like the perfect guy to be guest those for you.Aaron Levie: That makes sense actually, for We love context. We, we both really love context le we really do.We really do.swyx: Uh, and we're here with, uh, Aaron Levy. Welcome.Aaron Levie: Thank you. Good to, uh, good to be [00:01:00] here.swyx: Uh, yeah. So we've all met offline and like chatted a little bit, but like, it's always nice to get these things in person and conversation. Yeah. You just started off with so much energy. You're, you're super excited about agents.I loveAaron Levie: agents.swyx: Yeah. Open claw. Just got by, got bought by OpenAI. No, not bought, but you know, you know what I mean?Aaron Levie: Some, some, you know, acquihire. Executiveswyx: hire.Aaron Levie: Executive hire. Okay. Executive hire. Say,swyx: hey, that's my term. Okay. Um, what are you pounding the table on on agents? You have so many insightful tweets.Why Every Agent Needs a BoxAaron Levie: Well, the thing that, that we get super excited by that I think is probably, you know, should be relatively obvious is we've, we've built a platform to help enterprises manage their files and their, their corporate files and the permissions of who has access to those files and the sharing collaboration of those files.All of those files contain really, really important information for the enterprise. It might have your contracts, it might have your research materials, it might have marketing information, it might have your memos. All that data obviously has, you know, predominantly been used by humans. [00:02:00] But there's been one really interesting problem, which is that, you know, humans only really work with their files during an active engagement with them, and they kind of go away and you don't really see them for a long time.And all of a sudden, uh, with the power of AI and AI agents, all of that data becomes extremely relevant as this ongoing source of, of answers to new questions of data that will transform into, into something else that, that produces value in your organization. It, it contains the answer to the new employee that's onboarding, that needs to ramp up on a project.Um, it contains the answer to the right thing to sell a customer when you're having a conversation to them, with them contains the roadmap information that's gonna produce the next feature. So all that data. That previously we've been just sort of storing and, and you know, occasionally forgetting about, ‘cause we're only working on the new active stuff.All of that information becomes valuable to the enterprise and it's gonna become extremely valuable to end users because now they can have agents go find what they're looking for and produce new, new [00:03:00] value and new data on that information. And it's gonna become incredibly valuable to agents because agents can roam around and do a bunch of work and they're gonna need access to that data as well.And um, and you know, sometimes that will be an agent that is sort of working on behalf of, of, of you and, and effectively as you as and, and they are kind of accessing all of the same information that you have access to and, and operating as you in the system. And then sometimes there's gonna be agents that are just.Effectively autonomous and kind of run on their own and, and you're gonna collaborate and work with them kind of like you did another person. Open Claw being the most recent and maybe first real sort of, you know, kind of, you know, up updating everybody's, you know, views of this landscape version of, of what that could look like, which is, okay, I have an agent.It's on its own system, it's on its own computer, it has access to its own tools. I probably don't give it access to my entire life. I probably communicate with it like I would an assistant or a colleague and then it, it sort of has this sandbox environment. So all of that has massive implications for a platform that manage that [00:04:00] enterprise data.We think it's gonna just transform how we work with all of the enterprise content that we work with, and we just have to make sure we're building the right platform to support that.swyx: The sort of shorthand I put it is as people build agents, everybody's just realizing that every agent needs a box. Yes.And it's nice to be called box and just give everyone a box.Aaron Levie: Hey, I if I, you know, if we can make that go viral, uh, like I, I think that that terminology, I, that's theswyx: tagline. Every agentAaron Levie: needs a box. Every agent needs a box. If we can make that the headline of this, I'm fine with this. And that's the billboard I wanna like Yeah, exactly.Every agent needs a box. Um, I like it. Can we ship this? Like,swyx: okay, let's do it. Yeah.Aaron Levie: Uh, my work here is done and I got the value I needed outta this podcast Drinks.swyx: Yeah.Agent Governance and IdentityAaron Levie: But, but, um, but, but, you know, so the thing that we, we kind of think about is, um, is, you know, whether you think the number 10 x or a hundred x or whatever the number is, we're gonna have some order of magnitude more agents than people.That's inevitable. It has to happen. So then the question is, what is the infrastructure that's needed to make all those agents effective in the enterprise? Make sure that they are well governed. Make sure they're only doing [00:05:00] safe things on your information. Make sure that they're not getting exposed. The data that they shouldn't have access to.There's gonna be just incredibly spectacularly crazy security incidents that will happen with agents because you'll prompt, inject an agent and sort of find your way through the CRM system and pull out data that you shouldn't have access to. Oh, weJeff Huber: have God,Aaron Levie: right? I mean, that's just gonna happen all over the place, right?So, so then the thing is, is how do you make sure you have the right security, the permissions, the access controls, the data governance. Um, we actually don't yet exactly know in many cases how we're gonna regulate some of these agents, right? If you think about an agent in financial services, does it have the exact same financial sort of, uh, requirements that a human did?Or is it, is the risk fully on the human that was interacting or created the agent? All open questions, but no matter what, there's gonna need to be a layer that manages the, the data they have access to, the workflows that they're involved in, pulling up data from multiple systems. This is the new infrastructure opportunity in the era of agents.swyx: You have a piece on agent identities, [00:06:00] which I think was today, um, which I think a lot of breaking news, the security, security people are talking about, right? Like you basically, I, I always think of this as like, well you need the human you and then there you need the agent. YouAaron Levie: Yes.swyx: And uh, well, I don't know if it's that simple, but is box going to have an opinion on that or you're just gonna be like, well we're just the sort of the, the source layer.Yeah. Let's Okta of zero handle that.Aaron Levie: I think we're gonna have an opinion and we will work with generally wherever the contours of the market end up. Um, and the reason that we're gonna have an opinion more than other topics probably is because one of the biggest use cases for why your agent might need it, an identity is for file system access.So thus we have to kind of think about this pretty deeply. And I think, uh, unless you're like in our world thinking about this particular problem all day long, it might be, you know, like, why is this such a big deal? And the reason why it's a really big deal is because sometimes sort of say, well just give the agent an, an account on the system and it just treats, treat it like every other type of user on the system.The [00:07:00] problem is, is that I as Aaron don't really have any responsibility over anybody else's box account in our organization. I can't see the box account of any other employee that I work with. I am not liable for anything that they do. And they have, I have, I have, you know, strict privacy requirements on everything that they're able to, you know, that, that, that they work on.Agents don't have that, you know, don't have those properties. The person who creates the agent probably is gonna, for the foreseeable future, take on a lot of the liability of what that agent does. That agent doesn't deserve any privacy because, because it's, you know, it can't fully be autonomously operated and it doesn't have any legal, you know, kind of, you know, responsibility.So thus you can't just be like, oh, well I'll just create a bunch of accounts and then I'll, I'll kind of work with that agent and I'll talk to it occasionally. Like you need oversight of that. And so then the question is, how do you have a world where the agent, sometimes you have oversight of, but what if that agent goes and works with other people?That person over there is collaborating with the agent on something you shouldn't have [00:08:00] access to what they're doing. So we have all of these new boundaries that we're gonna have to figure out of, of, you know, it's really, really easy. So far we've been in, in easy mode. We've hit the easy button with ai, which is the agent just is you.And when you're in quad code and you're in cursor, and you're in Codex, you're just, the agent is you. You're offing into your services. It can do everything you can do. That's the easy mode. The hard mode is agents are kind of running on their own. People check in with them occasionally, they're doing things autonomously.How do you give them access to resources in the enterprise and not dramatically increased the security risk and the risk that you might expose the wrong thing to somebody. These are all the new problems that we have to get solved. I like the identity layer and, and identity vendors as being a solution to that, but we'll, we'll need some opinions as well because so many of the use cases are these collaborative file system use cases, which is how do I give it an agent, a subset of my data?Give it its own workspace as well. ‘cause it's gonna need to store off its own information that would be relevant for it. And how do I have the right oversight into that? [00:09:00]Jeff Huber: One thing, which, um, I think is kind interesting, think about is that you know, how humans work, right? Like I may not also just like give you access to the whole file.I might like sit next to you and like scroll to this like one part of the file and just show you that like one part and like, you know,swyx: partial file access.Jeff Huber: I'm just saying I think like our, like RA does seem to be dead, right? Like you wanna say something is dead uhhuh probably RA is dead. And uh, like the auth story to me seems like incredibly unsolved and unaddressed by like the existing state of like AI vendors.ButAaron Levie: yeah, I think, um, we're, I mean you're taking obviously really to level limit that we probably need to solve for. Yeah. And we built an access control system that was, was kind of like, you know, its own little world for, for a long time. And um, and the idea was this, it's a many to many collaboration system where I can give you any part of the file system.And it's a waterfall model. So if I give you higher up in the, in the, in the system, you get everything below. And that, that kind of created immense flexibility because I can kind of point you to any layer in the, in the tree, but then you're gonna get access to everything kind of below it. And that [00:10:00] mostly is, is working in this, in this world.But you do have to manage this issue, which is how do I create an agent that has access to some of my stuff and somebody else's stuff as well. Mm-hmm. And which parts do I get to look at as the creator of the agent? And, and these are just brand new problems? Yeah. Crazy. And humans, when there was a human there that was really easy to do.Like, like if the three of us were all sharing, there'd be a Venn diagram where we'd have an overlapping set of things we've shared, but then we'd have our own ways that we shared with each other. In an agent world, somebody needs to take responsibility for what that agent has access to and what they're working on.These are like the, some of the most probably, you know, boring problems for 98% of people on, on the internet, but they will be the problems that are the difference between can you actually have autonomous agents in an enterprise contextswyx: Yeah.Aaron Levie: That are not leaking your data constantly.swyx: No. Like, I mean, you know, I run a very, very small company for my conference and like we already have data sensitivity issues.Yes. And some of my team members cannot see Yes. Uh, the others and like, I can't imagine what it's like to run a Fortune 500 and like, you have to [00:11:00] worry about this. I'm just kinda curious, like you, you talked to a lot like, like 70, 80% of your cus uh, of the Fortune 500, your customers.Aaron Levie: Yep. 67%. Just so we're being verySEswyx: precise.So Yeah. I'm notAaron Levie: Okay. Okay.swyx: Something I'm rounding up. Yes. Round up. I'm projecting to, forAaron Levie: the government.swyx: I'm projecting to the end of the year.Aaron Levie: Okay.swyx: There you go.Aaron Levie: You do make it sound like, like we, we, well we've gotta be on this. Like we're, we're taking way too long to get to 80%. Well,swyx: no, I mean, so like. How are they approaching it?Right? Because you're, you don't have a, you don't have a final answer yet.Why Coding Agents Took Off FirstAaron Levie: Well, okay, so, so this is actually, this is the stark reality that like, unfortunately is the kinda like pouring the water on the party a little bit.swyx: Yes.Aaron Levie: We all in Silicon Valley are like, have the absolute best conditions possible for AI ever.And I think we all saw the dke, you know, kind of Dario podcast and this idea of AI coding. Why is that taken off? And, and we're not yet fully seeing it everywhere else. Well, look, if you just like enumerated the list of properties that AI coding has and then compared it to other [00:12:00] knowledge work, let's just, let's just go through a few of them.Generally speaking, you bring on a new engineer, they have access to a large swath of the code base. Like, there's like very, like you, just, like new engineer comes on, they can just go and find the, the, the stuff that they, they need to work with. It's a fully text in text out. Medium. It's only, it's just gonna be text at the end of the day.So it's like really great from a, from just a, uh, you know, kinda what the agent can work with. Obviously the models are super trained on that dataset. The labs themselves have a really strong, kind of self-reinforcing positive flywheel of why they need to do, you know, agent coding deeply. So then you get just better tooling, better services.The actual developers of the AI are daily users of the, of the thing that they're we're working on versus like the, you know, probably there's only like seven Claude Cowork legal plugin users at Anthropic any given day, but there's like a couple thousand Claude code and you know, users every single day.So just like, think about which one are they getting more feedback on. All day long. So you just go through this list. You have a, you know, everybody who's a [00:13:00] developer by definition is technical so they can go install the latest thing. We're all generally online, or at least, you know, kinda the weird ones are, and we're all talking to each other, sharing best practices, like that's like already eight differences.Versus the rest of the economy. Every other part of the economy has like, like six to seven headwinds relative to that list. You go into a company, you're a banker in financial services, you have access to like a, a tiny little subset of the total data that's gonna be relevant to do your job. And you're have to start to go and talk to a bunch of people to get the right data to do your job because Sally didn't add you to that deal room, you know, folder.And that that, you know, the information is actually in a completely different organization that you now have to go in and, and sort of run into. And it's like you have this endless list of access controls and security. As, as you talked about, you have a medium, which is not, it's not just text, right? You have, you have a zoom call that, that you're getting all of the requirements from the customer.You have a lot of in-person conversations and you're doing in-person sales and like how do you ever [00:14:00] digitize all of that information? Um, you know, I think a lot of people got upset with this idea that the code base has all the context, um, that I don't know if you follow, you know, did you follow some of that conversation that that went viral?Is like, you know, it's not that simple that, that the code base doesn't have all the knowledge, but like it's a lot, you're a lot better off than you are with other areas of knowledge work. Like you, we like, we like have documentation practices, you write specifications. Those things don't exist for like 80% of work that happens in the enterprise.That's the divide that we have, which is, which is AI coding has, has just fully, you know, where we've reached escape velocity of how powerful this stuff is, and then we're gonna have to find a way to bring that same energy and momentum, but to all these other areas of knowledge work. Where the tools aren't there, the data's not set up to be there.The access controls don't make it that easy. The context engineering is an incredibly hard problem because again, you have access control challenges, you have different data formats. You have end users that are gonna need to kind of be kind of trained through this as opposed to their adopting [00:15:00] these tools in their free time.That's where the Fortune 500 is. And so we, I think, you know, have to be prepared as an industry where we are gonna be on a multi-year march to, to be able to bring agents to the enterprise for these workflows. And I think probably the, the thing that we've learned most in coding that, that the rest of the world is not yet, I think ready for, I mean, we're, they'll, they'll have to be ready for it because it's just gonna inevitably happen is I think in coding.What, what's interesting is if you think about the practice of coding today versus two years ago. It's probably the most changed workflow in maybe the history of time from the amount of time it's changed, right? Yeah. Like, like has any, has any workflow in the entire economy changed that quickly in terms of the amount of change?I just, you know, at least in any knowledge worker workflow, there's like very rarely been an event where one piece of technology and work practice has so fundamentally, you know, changed, changed what you do. Like you don't write code, you talk to an agent and it goes and [00:16:00] does it for you, and you may be at best review it.And even that's even probably like, like largely not even what you're doing. What's happening is we are changing our work to make the agents effective. In that model, the agent didn't really adapt to how we work. We basically adapted to how the agent works. Mm-hmm. All of the economy has to go through that exact same evolution.The rest of the economy is gonna have to update its workflows to make agents effective. And to give agents the context that they need and to actually figure out what kind of prompting works and to figure out how do you ensure that the agent has the right access to information to be able to execute on its work.I, you know, this is not the panacea that people were hoping for, of the agent drops in, just automates your life. Like you have to basically re-engineer your workflow to get the most out of agents and, uh, and that, that's just gonna take, you know, multiple years across the economy. Right now it's a huge asset and an advantage for the teams that do it early and that are kinda wired into doing this.‘cause [00:17:00] you'll see compounding returns, but that's just gonna take a while for most companies to actually go and get this deployed.swyx: I love, I love pushing back. I think that. That is what a lot of technology consultants love to hear this sort of thing, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. First to, to embrace the ai. Yes. To get to the promised land, you must pay me so much money to a hundred percent to adopt the prescribed way of, uh, conforming to the agents.Yes. And I worry that you will be eclipsed by someone else who says, no, come as you are.Aaron Levie: Yeah.swyx: And we'll meet you where you are.Aaron Levie: And, and, and and what was the thing that went viral a week ago? OpenAI probably, uh, is hiring F Dees. Yeah. Uh, to go into the enterprise. Yeah. Yeah. And then philanthropic is embedded at Goldman Sachs.Yeah. So if the labs are having to do this, if, if the labs have decided that they need to hire FDE and professional services, then I think that's a pretty clear indication that this, there's no easy mode of workflow transformation. Yeah. Yeah. So, so to your point, I think actually this is a market opportunity for, you know, new professional services and consulting [00:18:00] firms that are like Agent Build and they, and they kind of, you know, go into organizations and they figure out how to re-engineer your workflows to make them more agent ready and get your data into the right format and, you know, reconstruct your business process.So you're, you're not doing most of the work. You're telling agents how to do the work and then you're reviewing it. But I haven't seen the thing that can just drop in and, and kinda let you not go through those changes.swyx: I don't know how that kind of sales pitch goes over. Yeah. You know, you're, you're saying things like, well, in my sort of nice beautiful walled garden, here's, there's, uh, because here's this, here's this beautiful box account that has everything.Yes. And I'm like, well, most, most real life is extremely messy. Sure. And like, poorly named and there duplicate this outdated s**tAaron Levie: a hundred percent. And so No, no, a hundred percent. And so this is actually No. So, so this is, I mean, we agree that, that getting to the beautiful garden is gonna be tough.swyx: Yeah.Aaron Levie: There's also the other end of the spectrum where I, I just like, it's a technical impossibility to solve. The agent is, is truly cannot get enough context to make the right decision in, in the, in the incredibly messy land. Like there's [00:19:00] no a GI that will solve that. So, so we're gonna have to kind of land in somewhere in between, which is like we all collectively get better at.Documentation practices and, and having authoritative relatively up-to-date information and putting it in the right place like agents will, will certainly cause us to be much better organized around how we work with our information, simply because the severity of the agent pulling the wrong data will be too high and the productivity gain of that you'll miss out on by not doing this will be too high as well, that you, that your competition will just do it and they'll just have higher velocity.So, uh, and, and we, we see this a lot firsthand. So we, we build a series of agents internally that they can kind of have access to your full box account and go off and you give it a task and it can go find whatever information you're looking for and work with. And, you know, thank God for the model progress, but like, if, if you gave that task to an agent.Nine months ago, you're just gonna get lots of bogus answers because it's gonna, it's gonna say, Hey, here's, here are fi [00:20:00] five, you know, documents that all kind of smell like the right thing. And I'm gonna, but I, but you're, you're putting me on the clock. ‘cause my assistant prompt says like, you know, be pretty smart, but also try and respond to the user and it's gonna respond.And it's like, ah, it got the wrong document. And then you do that once or twice as a knowledge worker and you're just neverswyx: again,Aaron Levie: never again. You're just like done with the system.swyx: Yeah. It doesn't work.Aaron Levie: It doesn't work. And so, you know, Opus four six and Gemini three one Pro and you know, whatever the latest five 3G BT will be, like, those things are getting better and better and it's using better judgment.And this sort of like the, all of these updates to the agentic tool and search systems are, are, we're seeing, we're seeing very real progress where the agent. Kind of can, can almost smell some things a little bit fishy when it's getting, you know, we, we have this process where we, we have it go fan out, do a bunch of searches, pull up a bunch of data, and then it has to sort of do its own ranking of, you know, what are the right documents that, that it should be working with.And again, like, you know, the intelligence level of a model six months ago, [00:21:00] it'd be just throwing a dart at like, I'm just, I'm gonna grab these seven files and I, I pray, I hope that that's the right answer. And something like an opus first four five, and now four six is like, oh, it's like, no, that one doesn't seem right relative to this question because I'm seeing some signal that is making that, you know, that's contradicting the document where it would normally be in the tree and who should have access.Like it's doing all of that kind of work for you. But like, it still doesn't work if you just have a total wasteland of data. Like, it's just not, it's just not possible. Partly ‘cause a human wouldn't even be able to do it. So basically if a, if a really, really smart human. Could not do that task in five or 10 minutes for a search retrieval type task.Look, you know, your agent's not gonna be able to do it any better. You see this all day long. SoContext Engineering and Search Limitsswyx: this touches on a thing that just passionate about it was just context engineering. I, I'm just gonna let you ramble or riff on, on context engineering. If, if, if there's anything like he, he did really good work on context fraud, which has really taken over as like the term that people use and the referenceAaron Levie: a hundred percent.We, we all we think about is, is the context rob problem. [00:22:00]Jeff Huber: Yeah, there's certainly a lot of like ranking considerations. Gentech surgery think is incredibly promising. Um, yeah, I was trying to generate a question though. I think I have a question right now. Swyx.Aaron Levie: Yeah, no, but like, like I think there was this moment, um, you know, like, I don't know, two years ago before, before we knew like where the, the gotchas were gonna be in ai and I think someone was like, was like, well, infinite context windows will just solve all of these problems and ‘cause you'll just, you'll just give the context window like all the data and.It's just like, okay, I mean, maybe in 2035, like this is a viable solution. First of all, it, it would just, it would just simply cost too much. Like we just can't give the model like the 5,000 documents that might be relevant and it's gonna read them all. And I've seen enough to, to start believing in crazy stuff.So like, I'm willing to just say, sure. Like in, in 10 years from now,swyx: never say, never, never.Aaron Levie: In, in 10 years from now, we'll have infinite context windows at, at a thousandth of the price of today. Like, let's just like believe that that's possible, but Right. We're in reality today. So today we have a context engineering [00:23:00] problem, which is, I got, I got, you know, 200,000 tokens that I can work with, or prob, I don't even know what the latest graph is before, like massive degradation.16. Okay. I have 60,000 tokens that I get to work with where I'm gonna get accurate information. That's not a lot of tokens for a corpus of 10 million documents that a knowledge worker might have across all of the teams and all the projects and all the people they work with. I have, I have 10 million documents.Which, you know, maybe is times five pages per document or something like that. I'm at 50 million pages of information and I have 60,000 tokens. Like, holy s**t. Yeah. This is like, how do I bridge the 50 million pages of information with, you know, the couple hundred that I get to work with in that, in that token window.Yeah. This is like, this is like such an interesting problem and that's why actually so much work is actually like, just like search systems and the databases and that layer has to just get so locked in, but models getting better and importantly [00:24:00] knowing when they've done a search, they found the wrong thing, they go back, they check their work, they, they find a way to balance sort of appeasing the user versus double checking.We have this one, we have this one test case where we ask the agent to go find. 10 pieces of information.swyx: Is this the complex work eval?Aaron Levie: Uh, this is actually not in the eval. This is, this is sort of just like we have a bunch of different, we have a bunch of internal benchmark kind of scenarios. Every time we, we update our agent, we have one, which is, I ask it to find all of our office addresses, and I give it the list of 10 offices that we have.And there's not one document that has this, maybe there should be, that would be a great example of the kind of thing that like maybe over time companies start to, you know, have these sort of like, what are the canonical, you know, kind of key areas of knowledge that we need to have. We don't seem to have this one document that says, here are all of our offices.We have a bunch of documents that have like, here's the New York office and whatever. So you task this agent and you, you get, you say, I need the addresses for these 10 offices. Okay. And by the way, if you do this on any, you know, [00:25:00] public chat model, the same outcome is gonna happen. But for a different kind of query, you give it, you say, I need these 10 addresses.How many times should the agent go and do its search before it decides whether or not, there's just no answer to this question. Often, and especially the, the, let's say lower tier models, it'll come back and it'll give you six of the 10 addresses. And it'll, and I'll just say I couldn't find the otherswyx: four.It, it doesn't know what It doesn't know. ItAaron Levie: doesn't know what It doesn't know. Yeah. So the model is just like, like when should it stop? When should it stop doing? Like should it, should it do that task for literally an hour and just keep cranking through? Maybe I actually made up an office location and it doesn't know that I made it up and I didn't even know that I made it up.Like, should it just keep, re should it read every single file in your entire box account until it, until it should exhaust every single piece of information.swyx: Expensive.Aaron Levie: These are the new problems that we have. So, you know, something like, let's say a new opus model is sort of like, okay, I'm gonna try these types of queries.I didn't get exactly what I wanted. I'm gonna try again. I'm gonna, at [00:26:00] some point I'm gonna stop searching. ‘cause I've determined that that no amount of searching is gonna solve this problem. I'm just not able to do it. And that judgment is like a really new thing that the model needs to be able to have.It's like, when should it give up on a task? ‘cause, ‘cause you just don't, it's a can't find the thing. That's the real world of knowledge, work problems. And this is the stuff that the coding agents don't have to deal with. Because they, it just doesn't like, like you're not usually asking it about, you're, you're always creating net new information coming right outta the model for the most part.Obviously it has to know about your code base and your specs and your documentation, but, but when you deploy an agent on all of your data that now you have all of these new problems that you're dealing withJeff Huber: our, uh, follow follow-up research to context ride is actually on a genetic search. Ah. Um, and we've like right, sort of stress tested like frontier models and their ability to search.Um, and they're not actually that good at searching. Right. Uh, so you're sort of highlighting this like explore, exploit.swyx: You're just say, Debbie, Donna say everything doesn't work. Like,Aaron Levie: well,Jeff Huber: somebody has to be,Aaron Levie: um, can I just throw out one more thing? Yeah. That is different from coding and, and the rest [00:27:00] of the knowledge work that I, I failed to mention.So one other kind of key point is, is that, you know, at the end of the day. Whether you believe we're in a slop apocalypse or, or whatever. At the end of the day, if you, if you build a working product at the end of, if you, if you've built a working solution that is ultimately what the customer is paying for, like whether I have a lot of slop, a little slop or whatever, I'm sure there's lots of code bases we could go into in enterprise software companies where it's like just crazy slop that humans did over a 20 year period, but the end customer just gets this little interface.They can, they can type into it, it does its thing. Knowledge work, uh, doesn't have that property. If I have an AI model, go generate a contract and I generate a contract 20 times and, you know, all 20 times it's just 3% different and like that I, that, that kind of lop introduces all new kinds of risk for my organization that the code version of that LOP didn't, didn't introduce.These are, and so like, so how do you constrain these models to just the part that you want [00:28:00] them to work on and just do the thing that you want them to do? And, and, you know, in engineering, we don't, you can't be disbarred as an engineer, but you could be disbarred as a lawyer. Like you can do the wrong medical thing In healthcare, you, there's no, there's no equivalent to that of engineering.Like, doswyx: you want there to be, because I've considered softwareJeff Huber: engineer. What's that? Civil engineering there is, right? NotAaron Levie: software civil engineer. Sure. Oh yeah, for sure. But like in any of our companies, you like, you know, you'll be forgiven if you took down the site and, and we, we will do a rollback and you'll, you'll be in a meeting, but you have not been disbarred as an engineer.We don't, we don't change your, you know, your computer science, uh, blameJeff Huber: degree, this postmortem.Aaron Levie: Yeah, exactly. Exactly. So, so, uh, now maybe we collectively as an industry need to figure out like, what are you liable for? Not legally, but like in a, in a management sense, uh, of these agents. All sorts of interesting problems that, that, that, uh, that have to come out.But in knowledge work, that's the real hostile environments that we're operating in. Hmm.swyx: I do think like, uh, a lot of the last year's, 2025 story was the rise of coding agents and I think [00:29:00] 2026 story is definitely knowledge work agents. Yes. A hundredAaron Levie: percent.swyx: Right. Like that would, and I think open claw core work are just the beginning.Yes. Like it's, the next one's gonna just gonna be absolute craziness.Aaron Levie: It it is. And, and, uh, and it's gonna be, I mean, again, like this is gonna be this, this wave where we, we are gonna try and bring as many of the practices from coding because that, that will clearly be the forefront, which is tell an agent to go do something and has an access to a set of resources.You need to be responsible for reviewing it at the end of the process. That to me is the, is the kind of template that I just think goes across knowledge, work and odd. Cowork is a great example. Open Closet's a great example. You can kind of, sort of see what Codex could become over time. These are some, some really interesting kind of platforms that are emerging.swyx: Okay. Um, I wanted to, we touched on evals a little bit. You had, you had the report that you're gonna go bring up and then I was gonna go into like, uh, boxes, evals, but uh, go ahead. Talk about your genetic search thing.Jeff Huber: Yeah. Mostly I think kinda a few of the insights. It's like number one frontier model is not good at search.Humans have this [00:30:00] natural explore, exploit trade off where we kinda understand like when to stop doing something. Also, humans are pretty good at like forgetting actually, and like pruning their own context, whereas agents are not, and actually an agent in their kind of context history, if they knew something was bad and they even, you could see in the trace the reason you trace, Hey, that probably wasn't a good idea.If it's still in the trace, still in the context, they'll still do it again. Uhhuh. Uh, and so like, I think pruning is also gonna be like, really, it's already becoming a thing, right? But like, letting self prune the con windowsswyx: be a big deal. Yeah. So, so don't leave the mistake. Don't leave the mistake in there.Cut out the mistake but tell it that you made a mistake in the past and so it doesn't repeat it.Jeff Huber: Yeah. But like cut it out so it doesn't get like distracted by it again. ‘cause really, you know, what is so, so it will repeat its mistake just because it's been, it's inswyx: theJeff Huber: context. It'sAaron Levie: in the context so much.That's a few shot example. Even if it, yeah.Jeff Huber: It's like oh thisAaron Levie: is a great thing to go try even ifJeff Huber: it didn't work.Aaron Levie: Yeah,Jeff Huber: exactly.Aaron Levie: SoJeff Huber: there's like a bunch of stuff there. JustAaron Levie: Groundhogs Day inside these models. Yeah. I'm gonna go keep doing the same wrongJeff Huber: thing. Covering sense. I feel like, you know, some creator analogy you're trying like fit a manifold in latent space, which kind is doing break program synthesis, which is kinda one we think about we're doing right.Like, you know, certain [00:31:00] facts might be like sort of overly pitting it. There are certain, you know, sec sectors of latent space and so like plug clean space. Yeah. And, uh, andswyx: so we have a bell, our editor as a bell every time you say that. SoJeff Huber: you have, you have to like remove those, likeswyx: you shoulda a gong like TPN or something.IfJeff Huber: we gong, you either remove those links to like kinda give it the freedom, kind of do what you need to do. So, but yeah. We'll, we'll release more soon. That'sAaron Levie: awesome.Jeff Huber: That'll, that'll be cool.swyx: We're a cerebral podcast that people listen to us and, and sort of think really deep. So yeah, we try to keep it subtle.Okay. We try to keep it.Aaron Levie: Okay, fine.Inside Agent Evalsswyx: Um, you, you guys do, you guys do have EVs, you talked about your, your office thing, but, uh, you've been also promoting APEX agents and complex work. Uh, yeah, whatever you, wherever you wanna take this just Yeah. How youAaron Levie: Apex is, is obviously me, core's, uh, uh, kind of, um, agent eval.We, we supported that by sort of. Opening up some data for them around how we kind of see these, um, data workspaces in, in the, you know, kind of regular economy. So how do lawyers have a workspace? How do investment bankers have a workspace? What kind of data goes into those? And so we, [00:32:00] we partner with them on their, their apex eval.Our own, um, eval is, it's actually relatively straightforward. We have a, a set of, of documents in a, in a range of industries. We give the agent previously did this as a one shot test of just purely the model. And then we just realized we, we need to, based on where everything's going, it's just gotta be more agentic.So now it's a bit more of a test of both our harness and the model. And we have a rubric of a set of things that has to get right and we score it. Um, and you're just seeing, you know, these incredible jumps in almost every single model in its own family of, you know, opus four, um, you know, sonnet four six versus sonnet four five.swyx: Yeah. We have this up on screen.Aaron Levie: Okay, cool. So some, you're seeing it somewhere like. I, I forget the to, it was like 15 point jump, I think on the main, on the overall,swyx: yes.Aaron Levie: And it's just like, you know, these incredible leaps that, that are starting to happen. Um,swyx: and OP doesn't know any, like any, it's completely held out from op.Aaron Levie: This is not in any, there's no public data which has, you know, Ben benefits and this is just a private eval that we [00:33:00] do, and then we just happen to show it to, to the world. Hmm. So you can't, you can't train against it. And I think it's just as representative of. It's obviously reasoning capabilities, what it's doing at, at, you know, kind of test time, compute capabilities, thinking levels, all like the context rot issues.So many interesting, you know, kind of, uh, uh, capabilities that are, that are now improvingswyx: one sector that you have. That's interesting.Industries and Datasetsswyx: Uh, people are roughly familiar with healthcare and legal, but you have public sector in there.Aaron Levie: Yeah.swyx: Uh, what's that? Like, what, what, what is that?Aaron Levie: Yeah, and, and we actually test against, I dunno, maybe 10 industries.We, we end up usually just cutting a few that we think have interesting gains. All extras, won a lot of like government type documents. Um,swyx: what is that? What is it? Government type documents?Aaron Levie: Government filings. Like a taxswyx: return, likeAaron Levie: a probably not tax returns. It would be more of what would go the government be using, uh, as data.So, okay. Um, so think about research that, that type of, of, of data sets. And then we have financial services for things like data rooms and what would be in an investment prospectus. Uhhuh,swyx: that one you can dog food.Aaron Levie: Yeah, exactly. Exactly. Yes. Yes. [00:34:00] So, uh, so we, we run the models, um, in now, you know, more of an agent mode, but, but still with, with kinda limited capacity and just try and see like on a, like, for like basis, what are the improvements?And, and again, we just continue to be blown away by. How, how good these models are getting.swyx: Yeah, I mean, I think every serious AI company needs something like that where like, well, this is the work we do. Here's our company eval. Yeah. And if you don't have it, well, you're not a serious AI company.Aaron Levie: There's two dimensions, right?So there's, there's like, how are the models improving? And so which models should you either recommend a customer use, which one should you adopt? But then every single day, we're making changes to our agents. And you need to knowswyx: if you regressed,Aaron Levie: if you know. Yeah. You know, I've been fully convinced that the whole agent observability and eval space is gonna be a massive space.Um, super excited for what Braintrust is doing, excited for, you know, Lang Smith, all the things. And I think what you're going to, I mean, this is like every enter like literally every enterprise right now. It's like the AI companies are the customers of these tools. Every enterprise will have this. Yeah, you'll just [00:35:00] have to have an eval.Of all of your work and like, we'll, you'll have an eval of your RFP generation, you'll have an eval of your sales material creation. You'll have an eval of your, uh, invoice processing. And, and as you, you know, buy or use new agentic systems, you are gonna need to know like, what's the quality of your, of your pipeline.swyx: Yeah.Aaron Levie: Um, so huge, huge market with agent evals.swyx: Yeah.Building the Agent Teamswyx: And, and you know, I'm gonna shout out your, your team a bit, uh, your CTO, Ben, uh, did a great talk with us last year. Awesome. And he's gonna come back again. Oh, cool. For World's Fair.Aaron Levie: Yep.swyx: Just talk about your team, like brag a little bit. I think I, I think people take these eval numbers in pretty charts for granted, but No, there, I mean, there's, there's lots of really smart people at work during all this.Aaron Levie: Biggest shout out, uh, is we have a, we have a couple folks at Dya, uh, Sidarth, uh, that, that kind of run this. They're like a, you know, kind of tag tag team duo on our evals, Ben, our CTO, heavily involved Yasha, head of ai, uh, you know, a bunch of folks. And, um, evals is one part of the story. And then just like the full, you know, kind of AI.An agent team [00:36:00] is, uh, is a, is a pretty, you know, is core to this whole effort. So there's probably, I don't know, like maybe a few dozen people that are like the epicenter. And then you just have like layers and layers of, of kind of concentric circles of okay, then there's a search team that supports them and an infrastructure team that supports them.And it's starting to ripple through the entire company. But there's that kind of core agent team, um, that's a pretty, pretty close, uh, close knit group.swyx: The search team is separate from the infra team.Aaron Levie: I mean, we have like every, every layer of the stack we have to kind of do, except for just pure public cloud.Um, but um, you know, we, we store, I don't even know what our public numbers are in, you know, but like, you can just think about it as like a lot of data is, is stored in box. And so we have, and you have every layer of the, of the stack of, you know, how do you manage the data, the file system, the metadata system, the search system, just all of those components.And then they all are having to understand that now you've got this new customer. Which is the agent, and they've been building for two types of customers in the past. They've been building for users and they've been building for like applications. [00:37:00] And now you've got this new agent user, and it comes in with a difference of it, of property sometimes, like, hey, maybe sometimes we should do embeddings, an embedding based, you know, kind of search versus, you know, your, your typical semantic search.Like, it's just like you have to build the, the capabilities to support all of this. And we're testing stuff, throwing things away, something doesn't work and, and not relevant. It's like just, you know, total chaos. But all of those teams are supporting the agent team that is kind of coming up with its requirements of what, what do we need?swyx: Yeah. No, uh, we just came from, uh, fireside chat where you did, and you, you talked about how you're doing this. It's, it's kind of like an internal startup. Yeah. Within the broader company. The broader company's like 3000 people. Yeah. But you know, there's, there's a, this is a core team of like, well, here's the innovation center.Aaron Levie: Yeah.swyx: And like that every company kind of is run this way.Aaron Levie: Yeah. I wanna be sensitive. I don't call it the innovation center. Yeah. Only because I think everybody has to do innovation. Um, there, there's a part of the, the, the company that is, is sort of do or die for the agent wave.swyx: Yeah.Aaron Levie: And it only happens to be more of my focus simply because it's existential that [00:38:00] we get it right.swyx: Yeah.Aaron Levie: All of the supporting systems are necessary. All of the surrounding adjacent capabilities are necessary. Like the only reason we get to be a platform where you'd run an agent is because we have a security feature or a compliance feature, or a governance feature that, that some team is working on.But that's not gonna be the make or break of, of whether we get agents right. Like that already exists and we need to keep innovating there. I don't know what the right, exact precise number is, but it's not a thousand people and it's not 10 people. There's a number of people that are like the, the kind of like, you know, startup within the company that are the make or break on everything related to AI agents, you know, leveraging our platform and letting you work with your data.And that's where I spend a lot of my time, and Ben and Yosh and Diego and Teri, you know, these are just, you know, people that, that, you know, kind of across the team. Are working.swyx: Yeah. Amazing.Read Write Agent WorkflowsJeff Huber: How do you, how do you think about, I mean, you talked a lot about like kinda read workflows over your box data. Yep.Right. You know, gen search questions, queries, et cetera. But like, what about like, write or like authoring workflows?Aaron Levie: Yes. I've [00:39:00] already probably revealed too much actually now that I think about it. So, um, I've talked about whatever,Jeff Huber: whatever you can.Aaron Levie: Okay. It's just us. It's just us. Yeah. Okay. Of course, of course.So I, I guess I would just, uh, I'll make it a little bit conceptual, uh, because again, I've already, I've already said things that are not even ga but, but we've, we've kinda like danced around it publicly, so I, yeah, yeah. Okay. Just like, hopefully nobody watches this, um, episode. No.swyx: It's tidbits for the Heidi engaged to go figure out like what exactly, um, you know, is, is your sort of line of thinking.Sure. They can connect the dots.Aaron Levie: Yeah. So, so I would say that, that, uh, we, you know, as a, as a place where you have your enterprise content, there's a use case where I want to, you know, have an agent read that data and answer questions for me. And then there's a use case where I want the agent to create something.And use the file system to create something or store off data that it's working on, or be able to have, you know, various files that it's writing to about the work it's doing. So we do see it as a total read write. The harder problem has so far been the read only because, because again, you have that kind of like 10 [00:40:00] million to one ratio problem, whereas rights are a lot of, that's just gonna come from the model and, and we just like, we'll just put it in the file system and kinda use it.So it's a little bit of a technically easier problem, but the only part that's like, not necessarily technically hard, it is just like it's not yet perfected in the state of the ecosystem is, you know, building a beautiful PowerPoint presentation. It's still a hard problem for these models. Like, like we still, you know, like, like these formats are just, we're not built for.They'reswyx: working on it.Aaron Levie: They're, they're working on it. Everybody's working on it.swyx: Every launch is like, well, we do PowerPoint now.Aaron Levie: We're getting, yeah, getting a lot, getting a lot of better each time. But then you'll do this thing where you'll ask the update one slide and all of a sudden, like the fonts will be just like a little bit different, you know, on two of the slides, or it moved, you know, some shape over to the left a little bit.And again, these are the kind of things that, like in code, obviously you could really care about if you really care about, you know, how beautiful is the code, but at the end, user doesn't notice all those problems and file creation, the end user instantly sees it. You're [00:41:00] like, ah, like paragraph three, like, you literally just changed the font on me.Like it's a totally different font and like midway through the document. Mm-hmm. Those are the kind of things that you run into a lot of in the, in the content creation side. So, mm-hmm. We are gonna have native agents. That do all of those things, they'll be powered by the leading kind of models and labs.But the thing that I think is, is probably gonna be a much bigger idea over time is any agent on any system, again, using Box as a file system for its work, and in that kind of scenario, we don't necessarily care what it's putting in the file system. It could put its memory files, it could put its, you know, specification, you know, documents.It could put, you know, whatever its markdown files are, or it could, you know, generate PDFs. It's just like, it's a workspace that is, is sort of sandboxed off for its work. People can collaborate into it, it can share with other people. And, and so we, we were thinking a lot about what's the right, you know, kind of way to, to deliver that at scale.Docs Graphs and Founder Modeswyx: I wanted to come into sort of the sort of AI transformation or AI sort of, uh, operations things. [00:42:00] Um, one of the tweets that you, that you wanted to talk about, this is just me going through your tweets, by the way. Oh, okay. I mean, like, this is, you readAaron Levie: one by one,swyx: you're the, you're the easiest guest to prep for because you, you already have like, this is the, this is what I'm interested in.I'm like, okay, well, areAaron Levie: we gonna get to like, like February, January or something? Where are we in the, in the timelines? How far back are we going?swyx: Can you, can you describe boxes? A set of skills? Right? Like that, that's like, that's like one of the extremes of like, well if you, you just turn everything into a markdown file.Yeah. Then your agent can run your company. Uh, like you just have to write, find the right sequence of words toAaron Levie: Yes.swyx: To do it.Aaron Levie: Sorry, isthatswyx: the question? So I think the question is like, what if we documented everything? Yes. The way that you exactly said like,Aaron Levie: yes.swyx: Um, let's get all the Fortune five hundreds, uh, prepared for agents.Yes. And like, you know, everything's in golden and, and nicely filed away and everything. Yes. What's missing? Like, what's left, right? LikeAaron Levie: Yeah.swyx: You've, you've run your company for a decade. LikeAaron Levie: Yeah. I think the challenge is that, that that information changes a week later. And because something happened in the market for that [00:43:00] customer, or us as a company that now has to go get updated, and so these systems are living and breathing and they have to experience reality and updates to reality, which right now is probably gonna be humans, you know, kinda giving those, giving them the updates.And, you know, there is this piece about context graphs as as, uh, that kinda went very viral. Yeah. And I, I, I was like a, i, I, I thought it was super provocative. I agreed with many parts of it. I disagree with a few parts around. You know, it's not gonna be as easy as as just if we just had the agent traces, then we can finally do that work because there's just like, there's so much more other stuff that that's happening that, that we haven't been able to capture and digitize.And I think they actually represented that in the piece to be clear. But like there's just a lot of work, you know, that that has to, you just can't have only skills files, you know, for your company because it's just gonna be like, there's gonna be a lot of other stuff that happens. Yeah. Change over time.Yeah. Most companies are practically apprenticeships.swyx: Most companies are practically apprenticeships. LikeJeff Huber: every new employee who joins the team, [00:44:00] like you span one to three months. Like ramping them up.Aaron Levie: Yes. AllJeff Huber: that tat knowledgeAaron Levie: isJeff Huber: not written down.Aaron Levie: Yes.Jeff Huber: But like, it would have to be if you wanted to like give it to an Asian.Right. And so like that seems to me like to beAaron Levie: one is I think you're gonna see again a premium on companies that can document this. Mm-hmm. Much. There'll be a huge premium on that because, because you know, can you shorten that three month ramp cycle to a two week ramp cycle? That's an instant productivity gain.Can you re dramatically reduce rework in the organization because you've documented where all the stuff is and where the answers are. Can you make your average employee as good as your 90th percentile employee because you've captured the knowledge that's sort of in the heads of, of those top employees and make that available.So like you can see some very clear productivity benefits. Mm-hmm. If you had a company culture of making sure you know your information was captured, digitized, put in a format that was agent ready and then made available to agents to work with, and then you just, again, have this reality of like add a 10,000 person [00:45:00] company.Mapping that to the, you know, access structure of the company is just a hard problem. Is like, is like, yeah, well, you just, not every piece of information that's digitized can be shared to everybody. And so now you have to organize that in a way that actually works. There was a pretty good piece, um, this, this, uh, this piece called your company as a file is a file system.I, did you see that one?swyx: Nope.Aaron Levie: Uh, yes. You saw it. Yeah. And, and, uh, I actually be curious your thoughts on it. Um, like, like an interesting kind of like, we, we agree with it because, because that's how we see the world and, uh,swyx: okay. We, we have it up on screen. Oh,Aaron Levie: okay. Yeah. But, but it's all about basically like, you know, we've already, we, we, we already organized in this kind of like, you know, permission structure way.Uh, and, and these are the kind of, you know, natural ways that, that agents can now work with data. So it's kind of like this, this, you know, kind of interesting metaphor, but I do think companies will have to start to think about how they start to digitize more, more of that data. What was your take?Jeff Huber: Yeah, I mean, like the company's probably like an acid compliant file system.Aaron Levie: Uh,Jeff Huber: yeah. Which I'm guessing boxes, right? So, yeah. Yes.swyx: Yeah. [00:46:00]Jeff Huber: Which you have a great piece on, but,swyx: uh, yeah. Well, uh, I, I, my, my, my direction is a little bit like, I wanna rewind a little bit to the graph word you said that there, that's a magic trigger word for us. I always ask what's your take on knowledge graphs?Yeah. Uh, ‘cause every, especially at every data database person, I just wanna see what they think. There's been knowledge graphs, hype cycles, and you've seen it all. So.Aaron Levie: Hmm. I actually am not the expert in knowledge graphs, so, so that you might need toswyx: research, you don't need to be an expert. Yeah. I think it's just like, well, how, how seriously do people take it?Yeah. Like, is is, is there a lot of potential in the, in the HOVI?Aaron Levie: Uh, well, can I, can I, uh, understand first if it's, um, is this a loaded question in the sense of are you super pro, super con, super anti medium? Iswyx: see pro, I see pros and cons. Okay. Uh, but I, I think your opinion should be independent of mine.Aaron Levie: Yeah. No, no, totally. Yeah. I just want to see what I'm stepping into.swyx: No, I know. It's a, and it's a huge trigger word for a lot of people out Yeah. In our audience. And they're, they're trying to figure out why is that? Because whyAaron Levie: is this such aswyx: hot item for them? Because a lot of people get graph religion.And they're like, everything's a graph. Of course you have to represent it as a graph. Well, [00:47:00] how do you solve your knowledge? Um, changing over time? Well, it's a graph.Aaron Levie: Yeah.swyx: And, and I think there, there's that line of work and then there's, there's a lot of people who are like, well, you don't need it. And both are right.Aaron Levie: Yeah. And what do the people who say you don't need it, what are theyswyx: arguing for Mark down files. Oh, sure, sure. Simplicity.Aaron Levie: Yeah.swyx: Versus it's, it's structure versus less structure. Right. That's, that's all what it is. I do.Aaron Levie: I think the tricky thing is, um, is, is again, when this gets met with real humans, they're just going to their computer.They're just working with some people on Slack or teams. They're just sharing some data through a collaborative file system and Google Docs or Box or whatever. I certainly like the vision of most, most knowledge graph, you know, kind of futuristic kind of ways of thinking about it. Uh, it's just like, you know, it's 2026.We haven't seen it yet. Kind of play out as as, I mean, I remember. Do you remember the, um, in like, actually I don't, I don't even know how old you guys are, but I'll for, for to show my age. I remember 17 years ago, everybody thought enterprises would just run on [00:48:00] Wikis. Yeah. And, uh, confluence and, and not even, I mean, confluence actually took off for engineering for sure.Like unquestionably. But like, this was like everything would be in the w. And I think based on our, uh, our, uh, general style of, of, of what we were building, like we were just like, I don't know, people just like wanna workspace. They're gonna collaborate with other people.swyx: Exactly. Yeah. So you were, you were anti-knowledge graph.Aaron Levie: Not anti, not anti. Soswyx: not nonAaron Levie: I'm not, I'm not anti. ‘cause I think, I think your search system, I just think these are two systems that probably, but like, I'm, I'm not in any religious war. I don't want to be in anybody's YouTube comments on this. There's not a fight for me.swyx: We, we love YouTube comments. We're, we're, we're get into comments.Aaron Levie: Okay. Uh, but like, but I, I, it's mostly just a virtue of what we built. Yeah. And we just continued down that path. Yeah.swyx: Yeah.Aaron Levie: And, um, and that, that was what we pursued. But I'm not, this is not a, you know, kind of, this is not a, uh, it'sswyx: not existential for you. Great.Aaron Levie: We're happy to plug into somebody else's graph.We're happy to feed data into it. We're happy for [00:49:00] agents to, to talk to multiple systems. Not, not our fight.swyx: Yeah.Aaron Levie: But I need your answer. Yeah. Graphs or nerd Snipes is very effective nerd.swyx: See this is, this is one, one opinion and then I've,Jeff Huber: and I think that the actual graph structure is emergent in the mind of the agent.Ah, in the same way it is in the mind of the human. And that's a more powerful graph ‘cause it actually involved over time.swyx: So don't tell me how to graph. I'll, I'll figure it out myself. Exactly. Okay. All right. AndJeff Huber: what's yours?swyx: I like the, the Wiki approach. Uh, my, I'm actually

Greetings from our new Weirder Together HQ in Marrickville! We jump straight into Ione's review of the new PT Anderson, why Rosalía's “Berghain” means pop music won't be the same again, the Utah Housewives, the Aussie music initiative #AUSIFY, the documentary Ben Stiller made about his parents, and lots more!For access to Ben's tour tickets and lots more head over to https://weirdertogether.substack.com

On this episode of Out There in the dark, we take a deep dive into PT Anderson‘s latest epic, weird, and thrilling One Battle After Another. At a time when our world is being rocked by corrupt and dark forces, Anderson explores with subtlety and humour, the issues that plague us on the daily. We also go through Anderson's oeuvre from his first film, Hard 8 (1996) to OBAA. And we say a fond farewell to cinema's greatest actors, Diane Keaton.

Gabe and Matt dissect the latest PT Anderson epic of monumental proportions: One Battle After Another (a name Matt still thinks is the coolest thing ever). We also discuss Paul Thomas Anderson as a filmmaker and why one of our hosts think that he may just be one of the best filmmakers of all time.-  -  -  -  - Listen to us on Apple Podcast and Spotify!Send us a message!Music by Mike. Check out his Soundcloud.Like our content? Visit our website! 

On this episode, Barry and Mike shout "viva la revolution!" as they talk all things One Battle After Another, the new film from acclaimed auteur PT Anderson - which stars Leonardo DiCaprio. Topics discussed include the film's many failings, politics in film, and the current state of cinema, culture and the movie industry. 

With a new Pynchon novel and a new PT Anderson movie based on Pynchon's Vineland out, it's probably a good time to let this one out of the vault.

Jonny's got a brand new score! We saw PT Anderson's new film, One Battle After Another, and we have plenty to talk about. We discuss our favorite scenes and tracks and how it ranks amongst Jonny's other film scores. Beware: many spoilers ahead! We talk more about Radiohead's upcoming tour and create a deeply chaotic, dream setlist that you will either love or hate. Also, we chat about Radiohead's mysterious appearance on the Coachella lineup plus a re-release of the charity album that kicked off the OK Computer recording session.

This week, the boys are back after Jay's birthday (and has an insane take on PT Anderson movies), Jacob attends A LOT of premieres at Beyond Fest, then Correia finds some new podcasts and gets into Government Conspiracy cover ups about mermaids (living in a casino for a month will do that) before getting into some of their planned Halloween celebrations.But first! The boys review Good Boy, One Battle After Another, Primate, Night Patrol, V/H/S Halloween, Dust Bunny, The Serpent Skin, Deathstalker, The Smashing Machine, Mermaids: The Body Found, Him, Night of the Reaper, and Star Trek: Khan. All this and more on a new episode of EYE ON HORROR!Movies Mentioned in the Episode: https://boxd.it/PlllGFollow us on the socials: @EyeOnHorror or check out https://linktr.ee/EyeOnHorrorGet more horror movie news at: https://ihorror.com

It's a very special episode for us as the Endslate Crew discusses the career of one of our favorite directors ever: Paul Thomas Anderson. We kick things off recapping his new masterpiece One Battle After Another then move on to make our personal rankings of his 10-Film Filmography. Do our rankings line up with yours? Feel free to share in the comments!Follow us on X:@endslatepodAnd follow your lovely hosts on everything else! (IG, YT, X, Threads, Spotify, Echos)@quarkhenares@mel_loz_@ramondeveyra

Hello,comme tu le sais c'est ma rentrée aujourd'hui et je dois avouer que côté cinéma je suis bien servi – que dis-je NOUS sommes bien servis en ce début d'automne, avec notamment pas mal de films primés à Cannes ou Venise , on en reparlera ces prochaines semaines. Mais aujourd'hui […] The post Une bataille après l'autre, claque magistrale de PT Anderson first appeared on Radio Vostok.

Hello,comme tu le sais c'est ma rentrée aujourd'hui et je dois avouer que côté cinéma je suis bien servi – que dis-je NOUS sommes bien servis en ce début d'automne, avec notamment pas mal de films primés à Cannes ou Venise , on en reparlera ces prochaines semaines. Mais aujourd'hui […] The post Une bataille après l'autre, claque magistrale de PT Anderson first appeared on Radio Vostok.

This week we dive into the processing scene from PT Anderson's underrated epic 20212 epic, The Master. Starring the late Phillip Seymour Hoffman and the great Joaquin Phoenix in one of the most intense acting scenes you've ever see. Great conversation, enjoy! Make sure to play along with each festival and leave comments so we can interact with you and remember to subscribe to the channel if you like what you see.  Follow us for more interaction and content: INSTAGRAM: https://instagram.com/deepdivefilmschool YOUTUBE: https://www.youtube.com/deepdivefilmschool TIKTOK: https://www.tiktok.com/@deepdivefilmschool LETTERBOXD: https://letterboxd.com/adampalcher Join our growing community for new videos every week! 

In today's episode we are looking at the work of two directors named Anderson, although they're not related to one another. We begin with Paul Thomas Anderson's MAGNOLIA, from 1999. This is a film that has the complexity of a Robert Altman film, in that we have many parallel stories in a few different spaces, and they do manage to bump into one another from time to time. PT Anderson sets us up for this in the opening scenes of the film, and it's a heckuva ride from one end to the other. Stay tuned for Part 2, when we look at a film by Wes Anderson.

In our continuing anniversary coverage of The Bends, we speak with Randee Dawn, a journalist and author who 30 years ago spent several days with Radiohead on the road right after they released their sophomore album. She regales us with stories of what they were like back then, before they became the critical darlings they are today. Are they really nice boys? Who is the dad of the group? What was worrying Thom? It's an illuminating conversation about a band who at the time was on the precipice of something great! Also, we have a mini-newspile where we discuss Radiohead's all but announced fall tour, the first trailer for PT Anderson's new film with intriguing new music from Jonny, what legendary minimalist composer Steve Reich thinks of Jonny and Radiohead, and Thom's unexpected involvement in Hamlet Hail to the Thief. Randee Dawn's new book, The Only Song Worth Singing, is out now wherever books are sold!

Shy and Awkward Week is here with the origin of Serious Sandler with his role in the PT Anderson flick, Punch Drunk Love. Is he funny enough?  Tune in and find out!!

In this edition of Zeitsassins Trend: Shadows, Jack and Miles discuss Joe Rogan's nuanced take on tyranny, Stephen A. Smith vs LeBron James, Kristi Noem's El Salvadorian prison photo op (feat. Rolex), the trailer for PT Anderson's new film 'One Battle After Another' and much more!See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

In this interview with Erin Brown Thomas, you'll learn how to write an effective ensemble film through deep analysis of Erin's Sundance film, Chasers and PT Anderson's Magnolia. Join us for Thursday Night Writes! Our Happy Hour of Writing Exercises with Jake every Thursday night at 7:00 pm ET, RSVP: https://www.writeyourscreenplay.com/free-writing-classes-thursday-night-writes/

Quantum Week is a nostalgia music and movie show, where we leap into a random week of a random year and talk about its hit movie and song.   On this episode of Quantum Week Briggs and Matt discuss 2002 movie Punch Drunk Love, and song Work It.   Follow us on: Twitter: YouTube:

Our deep dive of Wes Anderson and P.T. Anderson continues: this time we discuss the 2021 film Licorice Pizza which tells the story of two young people (one of which is very young) falling in love in the 70s. Michael and Abe discuss PT Anderson's distinctive style, themes, and characters. Features: Michael Swaim: https://twitter.com/SWAIM_CORP Abe Epperson: https://twitter.com/AbeTheMighty Support Small Beans and access Additional Content: https://www.patreon.com/SmallBeans Check our store to buy Small Beans merch! https://www.teepublic.com/stores/the-small-beans-store?ref_id=22691

Fall is here and so is a GIANT newspile. The biggest piece of news is, of course, the announcement of the Smile's second album, Wall of Eyes. We discuss the tracklist and which songs we're most excited about. We also chat about the self-titled single and intriguing music video directed by Thom and Jonny's old pal PT Anderson. In addition, the newspile is filled with items like Radiohead holiday merch, Phil's concert here in NYC, a peek into Thom and Dajana's Roman holiday house, a rare interview with Jonny, another Noah Yorke song, celebrity Radiohead tattoos, Karma Police showing up on tv, and plenty more. This is what you get when you listen to us!

Walker and Zach wade through the dystopian techno-hell of ANIMA, Thom Yorke's 2019 solo album/short film collaboration with PT Anderson. Follow us on Instagram to get the inside scoop, weekly show updates, upcoming special guests, and original artwork for each episode @idiotalk.podcast Idiotalk theme song by Walker Glenn Enjoying the show? Please Rate (and) Review wherever you listen to Podcasts!

This week, we review a PT Anderson-like instant classic about a mother searching for her daughter in the woods, a cop trying to find meaning in life by way of his love for dogs, a ranger trying to keep control of the local thugs, a pair of drug dealers finding friendship amid grief and suffering and...a bear hopped up on cocaine gone on a rampage, ripping anyone who gets in her way limb from limb. That's right!  It's Cocaine Bear!   You'll never look at another severed leg again without the desire to snort a line off it. I'm fairly certain that when my daughter asks me to find her Winnie the Pooh toy tonight. I'm going to go look for it yelling "where's the BEEEEAAAARRRR!" As usual, the Brothers Bantz (TM) er...banter, we give you your weekly dose of movie news and another round of Stop, Hey, What's That Sound?  And later, trivia and VFX chat.   So grab your razorblade, roll up a 20, or simply have a friend pour a pack over your head while you wistfully sigh something about cocaine Christmas, and hit play.  Do it.   MUSIC TRACKS Modern Funk Groove by StudioEtude. Feel The 80s by Nuclearmetal. Adventure Battle Victory Ident by MPAudioSolutions. Job Done Comedy Logo by FlossieWood Jazz Jingle Logo by RedOctopus. Nightly News Impact Logo by HollywoodEdge. News by MusicalSmile. A Halloween - Wolf_Music   

Hour 1 Andy opens the show amused by Oscar's premonition, Oscar's play is ________, Justin tweets Jay Williams, STreble arrives and crushes IU storming the court, Oscar Osteen, can you do a pull up, UK is best of the bubble, Harlow “White Men Can't Jump”, old infamous sound, a PT Anderson joke, and Streble gets homework. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

After much controversy, we travel back to PT Anderson's 1992 epic about chance and fate, Magnolia. It earns a pretty high place on our list of best films of all time. Plus in the news, Alex's video finally worked. Next up: Controversy continues and that ends in the weirdest way possible, and we're traveling through the Cruise Missile and watching Eyes Wide Shut (1999)

Rusty Schwimmer is an actress, with 134 film/tv credits on IMDB. Some of the films she acted in include The Perfect Storm, Twister, The Belko Experiment and Amistad. She has also had guest appearances on many great TV shows including Better Call Saul, The Righteous Gemstones and Married with Children. We discuss her acting career, working with PT Anderson, the re-release of Scrooge & Marley, playing the lead in Wild Honey, and more! 00:00 - Intro00:34 - Playing the Lead in Wild Honey 04:10 - Scrooge & Marley 08:02 - Dahmer & LGBTQ Category 10:45 - Acting Classes & Inspiration 12:15 - Carol Burnett & Better Call Saul 14:50 - Being Recognized  16:00 - Supportive Friends & Family 17:14 - Henry Winkler & Virginia Madsen 20:55 - Dirk Diggler & PT Anderson 25:35 - Spielberg & Amistad 27:06 - Chris Farley & Christopher Guest 28:55 - Alcohol, Drugs, Emotions & Art 32:25 - The Perfect Storm & Accent34:45 - How Fame Changes People 38:44 - Psychology & Human Behavior 41:25 - Success Stories & Slumps 46:45 - Voices 49:15 - Music 50:47 - You Can't Win 52:40 - Anthony Hopkins & Acting Style 55:05 - Musical Styles 57:30 - United Negro College Fund 58:50 - Outro Rusty Schwimmer Instagram:https://www.instagram.com/rustyschwim/United Negro College Fund:https://uncf.org/Chuck Shute website:http://chuckshute.com/Support the showThanks for Listening & Shute for the Moon!

Remember the 70s? No, because you weren't born yet, which is a moral failing on your part. Not to worry though, because neither were John or Alexx. So let's unravel this mysterious decade together by watching PT Anderson's Licorice Pizza. The post Episode 134 – Licorice Pizza appeared first on John and Alexx Hate Stuff.

Today we hop in the way back machine to witness the birth of one of filmmaking's greatest pairings with PT Anderson's 2007 oil drama, There Will Be Blood. This story is one of a single-minded oil man and the depths he'll go to win in his pursuits of riches and conquest. Starring Daniel Day-Lewis in the lead, supported by Paul Dono, Kevin J. O'Connor, and Ciaran Hinds, There Will be Blood doesn't want for talent, and being that it was written and directed by PTA, it is dripping with auteur potential and received a ton of nominations, including securing an Oscar win for Day-Lewis for best actor. But, does it hold up? Listen in as Jon, Colin, and Brent, discuss milkshakes and straws as we see if this well is dry or if this flick strikes oil.

Rádio Clube Altamont, parceria Altamont.pt e Futura - Rádio de Autor vem neste mês de Abril debruçar-se sobre o recente disco dos Big Thief, "Dragon New Warm Mountain I Believe in You", volta a 1982 e quiçá mais uns séculos para ir "Por Este Rio Acima" com Fausto e, por fim, esmiuça Licorice Pizza, filme de PT Anderson que anda nos cinemas.

We're traveling back in time to the 1970s for our next Divided Film, Licorice Pizza! Critics admired the loose plot structure that director PT Anderson set up for this coming-of-age story, but audiences did not have the patience for the relaxed pace. Let's hop on a waterbed and get in a game of pinball as we grab a slice of Licorice Pizza.

Here comes another drama... Who would've thought that since we added Eric to the MOTR Boys, he would affect Derryk so much that DERRYK would pick a drama, and one that is directed by Eric's fave director?!? WOW!! But in any case, we made this episode to discuss the drama that brought PT Anderson to the forefront and cemented his greatness as one of Hollywood's great dramatic directors. Definitely worth the watch and worth the listen. As always, we do this with a song in our hearts and a drink in our hands. CHEERS!! INTRO: PEG & THE REJECTED -- ALL SING ALONG REFILL: SHAOLIN DUB -- SKANKING IT EASY DUB OUTRO: DISTEMPER -- HAPPY END EMAIL : MOVIESONTHEROCKS2020@GMAIL.COM INSTAGRAM: @moviesrockpodcast

Hola! Hoy voy a estar hablando de la película Licorice Pizza de comedia/romance del año 2021 escrita y dirigida por Paul Thomas Anderson. Esta película extrae ideas reales sucedidas a PT Anderson en su juventud; El guión evolucionó a partir de estas experiencia y las historias adicionales que le contó a Anderson su amigo Gary Goetzman (el personaje de Gary tiene muchas similitudes con Goetzman). Espero que lo disfruten!

Imagine having an intimate view into relationships from around the world? A front-row seat to the emotional and provocative conversations between two people, their shared emotional space. What would you learn about them? About yourself? about how we all connect as human beings? Well, our guest today has embarked on a journey where he does that and more.Topaz Adizes is the Founder and Executive Creative Director @the_skindeep - An experience design studio focused entirely on exploring one deceptively simple concept since 2014. Human connection in the digital age.Topaz's creativity and passions have impacted so many lives as a catalyst for deeper, more meaningful connections among us. And, as you'll hear in this episode, how one of the Skin Deep products came into mine and Krista's lives at just the right moment, and helped our relationship in such a meaningful way, at a point of struggle and pain.The path to connection lies in the questions we ask and the deep listening we employ for ourselves and in our relationships with others. TOPAZ'S BIO:Topaz Adizes is an award winning Writer, Director & Experience designer. His films have been selected to Cannes (BOY), Sundance (Trece Años, Laredo Texas, {THE AND} Marcela & Rock), IDFA, SXSW, Cinéma Du Réel, and other festivals around the world.His interactive documentary {THE AND} won the Emmy for New Approaches to Documentary 2015 as well as the World Press Photo award for Best Interactive Documentary 2015. {THE AND} was also a viral sensation reaching #1 on Reddit and Buzzfeed and experienced by over 70 million users, featured on the CBS Morning show and Good Morning America and selected to numerous international digital storytelling competitions. His second Interactive project, THE DIG, also won the top prize at World Press Photo for Immersive storytelling. Topaz's work has exhibited at the Centre Pompidou in Paris, the Natural History Museum and United Nations Headquarters in New York, as well as featured in the NY Times and The New Yorker. He has also directed commercial work for clients including Netflix, Deloitte, and Vogue. Early in his career, Topaz had the valuable experience of learning under the tutelage of Ridley Scott, Steven Spielberg, and PT Anderson. Now Topaz's primary focus has been as the Founder and Creative Director of The Skin Deep - an experience design studio focused entirely on human connection in the digital age. {THE AND} is the first experience created by The Skin Deep. Senior Orientation, The Window, Threshold, TSD Uncut, {THE AND} VR and THE DIG are the subsequent properties released by The Skin Deep.  Topaz graduated in 1999 with a bachelors degree in Philosophy from UC Berkeley and Oxford University in the UK. He has worked around the world ranging from Mexico, Sweden, Zambia, Japan, Vietnam, Albania, Cuba, and speaks four languages - English, Hebrew, Spanish and Swedish.CONNECT WITH TOPAZ & THE SKIN DEEPwww.topazadizes.comwww.theskindeep.com/www.youtube.com/theskindeephttps://shop.theskindeep.com/https://shop.honestx.com/Find out more about Owl & Key and Strategic Planning for Life below:www.owlandkey.cowww.owlandkey.co/courselinktr.ee/owlandkeywww.instagram.com/owl_and_key/Get Started today!Get Started with Strategic Planning for Life todayBook your FREE call to learn more!

See the full show notes HERE. (01:15) SPOILERS: Rosey unpacks the mind-bending Black Bear. (11:11) Avery watched The Lost Daughter and can't we all give moms a break?  (34:52) SPOILERS: We dig into PT Anderson's Licorice Pizza with relish.  (01:04:15) We check out Slate's top 25 characters of the last 25 years.Next week we're chatting about female friendships in movies and tv, and STAY TUNED FOR A SPECIAL MINISODE! Yellowjackets watch-along episode 1 drops this Friday 2/4. BUZZ BUZZ!

Sometimes when a child of a musician shows an interest or an aptitude in playing music themselves, it's called “the curse”. Sometimes the curse is revealed in mysterious ways, and the cursed child might not even realize that they have the curse until something clicks in them, a light goes off, a switch flips.  In the case of Adam O'Farrill, he says he discovered his curse when, at 8 years old, he went to his older brother's Zach's middle school band concert and saw the trumpet player. Looking back on it, he admits that part of it was simply the shine and brilliance of the instrument - he was called to it. He certainly wasn't the first and he won't be the last to react that way.  But for Adam, it was really just a matter of time. For the cursed child, there is no escape. He's a quiet but intense observer, an omnivorous receiver of inputs and inspirations, from foreign films to video games, literature to cuisine. And he's also what some people would call musical royalty - the grandson of Afro-Cuban-Irish composer and arranger Chico O'Farrill, the son of the cultural boundary-pushing composer and pianist Arturo O'Farrill, and pianist-educator Alison Deane. Last year he was voted the No. 1 “rising star trumpeter” in the DownBeat magazine critics' poll. He was 26 years old at the time. But of course age is really just a number, and Adam seemed to shoot out into the world fully formed, not only an accomplished player, but a developed artistic thinker. At an early age, he was putting in time with the likes of Rudresh Mahanthappa, Mary Halvorson, and his father's Afro Latin Jazz Orchestra. Adam's family background is so diverse that refers to himself as “the United Nations in flesh”. That sense of inclusiveness is found in his music as well - freedom and control, tradition and exploration, intention and “tumult,” as he tells me.   Recently he released Visions of Your Other, the third statement by his group Stranger Days, which features his brother on drums as well as the bassist Walter Stinson and recently,  saxophonist, Xavier Del Castillo.  Here he talks about belonging to that rich musical legacy, how video games, literature and most of all the films of PT Anderson have informed his work, the hazy lines around labels and categories, the importance of making space for other musicians to support one another, and how he strives to remove “the external” from his playing. www.third-story.com www.patreon.com/thirdstorypodcast www.adam-ofarrill.com/

Join Liam and Ryan for their first cinema outing of 2022! As Liam and Ryan take a trip back to the early 70s with PT Anderson's new coming of age story 'Licorice Pizza'.  

Here you are. A LOT of pod. Got a little playoff talk, a lot of PT Anderson talk and a near death experience... all in an hour? But how? Hit play and FIND OUT!

Sam assigns three movies directed by Paul Thomas Anderson: Magnolia, Punch-Drunk Love, and The Master. 4:36 - Magnolia 29:15 - Punch-Drunk Love 51:14 - The Master 1:03:42 - Rank that List! Note: Some of Andy's audio for this episode was tragically lost (by Andy).

Last week, Film Club dived into the two Paul Thomas Anderson movies starring Daniel Day-Lewis. This week, in the final installment of our four-week series on the movies of this essential filmmaker, critics A.A. Dowd and Katie Rife tackle the other major director-star collaboration of Anderson's career: the one-two punch of The Master and Inherent Vice. Then we close this month-long retrospective with our respective choices for the best of PT Anderson. Surprising spoiler alert: It might be the same film.Visit: https://www.avclub.com/Like: https://www.facebook.com/theavclubFollow: https://twitter.com/theavclubSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Ren Faire foods! Thrift store finds! PT Anderson films! Steve playing the ocarina for way too long! Thanks to our sponsors! Apostrophe: Go to http://apostrophe.com/valleycast and use code valleycast to get your plan for $5.. Stamps.com: Go to http://www.stamps.com and use promo code VALLEYCAST for a special offer that includes a 4-week trial, free postage, and a digital scale. GET THE MOVIE MOVIE POSTER: store.dftba.com/collections/the-valle... We'd love if you'd consider supporting and becoming part of the fam as move into a new era: http://www.patreon.com/thevalleyfolk THE BESTEST SOCIAL DISTANCE FIST BUMPS TO the health care workers and essential workers out on the front lines kicking ass for us right now! You can donate to help families in need by visiting https://www.feedingamerica.org/ways-t... ! Music/SFX: If you like our sounds, sign up for ONE FREE MONTH on us at Epidemic Sound! Over 30,000 songs: http://share.epidemicsound.com/n96pc Follow The Valleyfolk across the digital globe: http://twitter.com/TheValleyfolk http://instagram.com/TheValleyfolk http://facebook.com/TheValleyfolk Follow the group on their personal socials: Joe Bereta: http://twitter.com/JoeBereta http://instagram.com/joebereta Elliott Morgan: http://twitter.com/elliottcmorgan http://instagram.com/elliottmorgan Steve Zaragoza: http://twitter.com/stevezaragoza http://instagram.com/stevezaragoza Kevin Plachy: https://twitter.com/pakkap_ https://www.instagram.com/pakkap Shoot: Kevin Plachy Edit: Kevin Plachy

In 1997, PT Anderson made an extravaganza called Boogie Nights. It's got one of the greatest casts of all time and some of the sweetest moments you'll ever see in any movie ever. Rob and Joe talk about strong storytelling and stellar acting and what love is. This conversation ends up being a long, thoughtful celebration of a beautiful thing. At low-effort content—where okay is okay—we make stuff and share it with you to celebrate life with curiosity, creativity, and compassion...kind of...sometimes. You can contact us & buy our coffee mugs and things. And you can listen to our shows:  Make Mine a Double Feature, where Rob & Ellen have a few drinks and tell each other movie stories in all kinds of ways—like backwards or in the form of letters or from the POV of a side character. Kid. Dad. Songs. Yeah!, where Rob & Felix talk about music. Trivial Television, where Ellen & Rob recap TV episodes while sprinkling in facts, fictions, and trivia questions. Booyah 90s Now, where Rob & Joe break down what it's been like to live under the influence of 90s media. Trading Up!, where Rob loses a bunch of money trying to become a good stock trader. Thanks for hanging out.  Take care.

This week the fellas discuss first concert, bugs, onions, logos, pre-mixed liquor, PT Anderson, and so much more!

For the full episode go to patreon.com/whatsthatfrom Intro: Merfermin, Harlan Williams, Anthony Clark, Montell Williams, Punchline, Taylor Negron, Emmy Rossum, Schmitts Gay. Truck Torrence, 100% Soft. Neurosis (band), Mastodon, Steve Martin on the banjo, 30 Odd Foot Grunts, Russell Crowe, Austin Texas, Return of Bruno with Bruce Willis, Jeremy Renner, Jeremy Renner music, Jeremy Renner app, Jeremy Renner National Lampoon's Senior Trip, Jeremy Renner, Matt Frewer, Max Headroom, Angelyne, fame and wealth and vanity and hubris and egomania in Hollywood, Jeremy Renner, therapy sessions, therapy scolding, Bill Burr, Sandra Bernhardt, Paul Mooney, Taylor Negron, Worst Gig Ever podcast, The Last Boy Scout, Graf Orlock, Aristocrats, Saw, With Gourley and Rust, horror movies in the theater, mushy cgi, Gladiator, Ridley Scott, Oscars, Coen Brothers, Raising Arizona, film scenes the become tropes, overdone jokes, “check please,” Loaded Weapon, John McClane, parody of comedies, parody of parodies, Spaceballs, Aliens parody, WB Michigan J Frog, The State taco mailman, reenacting sketch for youtube, The State skits and stickers, replacing music for the DVD, Cannonball, Led Zeppelin, Killing Joke, theme songs, Wonder Years, Bosom Buddies, commercial parodies, Crumbelievable, Genesis “One More Bite” Jack in the Box, boring you to sleep, Norse mythology, Busy town city planning children's book, New Yorker Shouts and Murmurs, tv while working, Dr. Pimple Popper, DVD extras, Rules of Attraction with Carrot Top, Conan the Barbarian, John Milius, Arnold Schwarzenegger, John Carpenter & Kurt Russell, The Limey, Steven Soderbergh, PT Anderson, Sleepaway Camp, Carol Clover, Armageddon, Criterion, Matt Berry, Kill the Wolf, Garth Marenghi, dated sketch, Travel Man, Richard Ayoade, Best Movies Never Made, Heat Vision and Jack, Pacific Dining Car. Support the show (https://www.patreon.com/whatsthatfrom)

Montell Jordan, The Nutty Professor, “Outrageous comedies,” Comedy movies full of good jokes but not the best movies, Billy Madison vs. Happy Gilmore, Dumb & Dumber, Waynes World, Cable Guy, Ave Ventura, Cannibal Corpse, SNL character movies, The Smithereens, The Fabulous Thunderbirds, Farrelly Brothers, Something About Mary, Bilouxi Blues, is this comedy?, the movies our dad made us watch, Crossing Delancy, Drunk Brilliant and Stoned, National Lampoon, Chevy Chase, Henry Rollins, emotional trauma in public, cocaine, pushing the envelope, Something About Mary, culture/time ruining jokes, Along Came Polly, top ten “important” movies to us, top ten important movies objectively, The Burbs, Pee Wee's Big Adventure, Tim Burton, Two Old Queens podcast, Nightmare Before Christmas Haunted Mansion, Beetlejuice 2, Mr. Mom, good funny important comedies: Spinal Tap, The Jerk, Groundhog Day, Raising Arizona, Rushmore, Boogie Nights, movies slow on a rewatch: Ghostbusters, Tim Burton's Batman, subjectivity, Wes Anderson, PT Anderson, David Fincher – baggage filmmakers, There Will Be Blood, The Cable Guy, no comedy movie can be perfect because the story so often suffers, sketch and tv and music is more forgivable, Squeeze “Pulling Mussels from a Shell,” musicals, Gene Kelly in American in Paris, Halloween, minimal “clean” filmmaking of John Carpenter, the comfort of genre, comedy movies inefficiency versus sketch, endorphin rush of a short clip versus taking the full work, Trap Them, Brahms, Caddyshack, Jack Frost, is this movie actually funny? American Pie, Dude Where's My Car, Master of Disguise, Kung Pow, Super Troopers, Broken Lizard, Henry David Thoreau, Father John Misty at Moon Juice. Buzzsprout - Let's get your podcast launched! Start for FREEInstacart - Groceries delivered in as little as 1 hour. Free delivery on your first order over $35.Disclaimer: This post contains affiliate links. If you make a purchase, I may receive a commission at no extra cost to you.Support the show (https://www.patreon.com/whatsthatfrom)

J.D. Lifshitz and Raphael Margules are the founders and executives of BoulderLight Pictures, a horror-centric production house in Los Angeles. Under BoulderLight, JD & Rafi have put out over 15 movies including: Becky, Pledge, Contracted, Dementia and most recently, The Vigil. When asked who the next Blumhouse will be, Jason Blum, without question, said BoulderLight pictures. Between their shrewd emphasis on economics, eye for bold talent, and recently launched international sales arm, JD and Rafi are a force to be reckoned with - and it seems like they are just getting started. In this interview, we talked about their filmography, the launch of BoulderLight, and strategies for aspiring producers, on this very special episode of The Nick Taylor Horror Show. Now without further ado here are JD Lifshits and Raphael Margules of BoulderLight Pictures. Here are some key takeaways from this conversation with JD and Raphael.   Your movies must have urgency. You know that feeling when you hear about a project, or see a trailer, or read an announcement for a movie and you cannot fucking wait to see it? You ever find yourself actually wishing that they announced the project closer to the release date because of the pain of having to wait for it? Those are the kinds of projects you need to make! Nowadays, with the ubiquity of streaming, audiences have an infinite cinema library at their fingertips, they need to not only know about your project but they have to be extremely excited about it and dying for it to be released. As JD and Rafie mentioned, the way to do this is to create things people haven't seen before - a compelling hook, a completely different take on a reliable trope, anything that hooks the audience. If your movie feels cliche and part of a sea of sameness, you may get a decent review, or the attention of a few odd audience members who stumble upon it while looking for something to watch on Saturday night, which is fine. But the real name of the game is for your project to be so compelling and exciting, that people are counting down the days for it release. A natural extension of this rule is present in the next point.   If you're not in love with it, it probably wont work. It's a cliche at this point, but to make movies, you really have to love it. Making films is extremely difficult in every single stage, and one of the only ways to get through the difficulties associated with filmmaking is to absolutely love it. This is also necessary because the audience will always be able to sense your passion in the film itself. You can feel the excitement and sheer glee of filmmaking with directors like Spielberg, Tarantino, Sofia Coppola, and PT Anderson. That's because these people are in love with their movies, and this passion is completely infectious to audience members. If you're taking on a project as a career stepping stone or a way to make a quick buck, in all likelihood the energy of the movie is going to be flat and so will its ratings. Plus, to get your movie greenlit, Producers need to see your enthusiasm for the project in order to invest in you, because they know that the going will get rough two weeks into production, and you need the kind of heart for the project that will enable you to push through. There are plenty exceptions to this rule, but as Quentin Tarantino says, "if you really really love movies with all of your heart, then you can't help but make a great movie." Passion has to be alive in every frame of your movie and if you do this right, in all likelihood, audiences will be passionate about your movies too. Ask for advice, not favors. This is a big piece of advice that JD realized at a young age when he reached out to Eli Roth on MySpace and got an answer back the same day. JD asked Eli for advice and as a result, Eli became his mentor and tremendously helped guide him through the ups and downs of Hollywood. Having someone like this in your life is priceless. Everybody needs a Yoda, so think about finding yours. The best way to do this, is to ask people for advice, not favors. Go and get yourself an IMDB pro account for $20 a month, and send an email asking for a very specific piece of advice that wont take any more than ten minutes to respond to, but make sure it's something unique and not something they've addressed in a previous interview. What you do not want to do is ask them to read your screenplay, listen to your pitch, or make an introduction to someone who can help you get your movie made. Any mentor worth their salt gets bombarded with pitches all day long. Instead, ask for short but sweet pieces of advice, then take their advice and let them know what happens, and begin a correspondence.   Nothing matters in this business, move on. As we've discussed extensively, Hollywood is a very tough place with a lot of tough people. Everyone struggles, gets yelled, at rejected, insulted, lied to, or treated unjustly sooner or later. JD talked about getting aggressively yelled at all the time by executives and just shrugging it off and pushing forward because none of it really matters. As he said, don't be afraid to get a little coffee thrown in your face. And he's absolutely right. Hollywood is a walled garden, and frankly a self-filtering ecosystem, so there will be an equal amount of people who will test your mettle and people who are downright rude assholes. Who cares, take the blows and move on. Don't let it discourage you, deject you, or slow you down in any way. Real abuse, of course, should not be tolerated, but get used to being knocked around a lot so you can develop a thick skin, because without it, you wont make it for two minutes in this town.   ----- Produced by Simpler Media

Now that Andrew has recovered from his non-COVID plague, he was healthy enough to talk about movies we said we'd cover. We discussed the Netflix hit Spenser Confidential, and an old PT Anderson classic, The Master. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Episode 71-- Cruz is absent for this episode. In his stead, Eric Bryan of Anger As Art joins James to talk about Punch Drunk Love, the last truly watchable film of PT Anderson's career. Don't believe me? Screw you, I don't need your approval. Then we talk about Lone Wolf and Cub, Wages of Fear, and, of course, Spectre. Because always with the James Bond movies. Follow Eric and his band, Anger as Art, at https://www.facebook.com/angerasart. Follow us on Twitter @goldenagecruz and @kislingtwits. You can follow James on IG @kislingwhatsit. You can read James' ramblings at Gildedterror.blogspot.com. E-mail us at AQualityInterruption@gmail.com. Support our Patreon at Patreon.com/quality. Review us on iTunes. Tell a friend. That's that.

Dan lands his first big Hollywood interview this week with one of his favorite directors and an old friend calls into the show. Dan and Beej discuss PT Anderson's first film, Hard Eight and the Charlie Chaplin classic, City Lights. Tune in now to hear Dan call Charlie Chaplin, Charlie Chapman, and Beej call John C. Reilly, John C. McGinley, for an entire hour!

Good friend, JOSEPH WILLIAM LEWIS, returns to the show to help me analyze PT Anderson's early film, "Boogie Nights," and his last film, "The Master," in advance of his new film, "Inherent Vice," opening in limited release on December 12th. Enjoy!Smoke Gets in Your Ears - Joseph's new podcast with AJ Wiley & Kenn EdwardsNowheresville - Joseph's pilot episodeJoseph on TwitterMusic on this podcast:Artist: Night Ranger - Song: Sister ChristianArtist: Rick Springfield - Song: Jessie's GirlArtist: Nena - Song: 99 LuftballonsCopyrights are owned by the artists and their labels. No money is made from this podcast.

We drink your milkshake and talk about PT Anderson's modern classic, There Will Be Blood. Our special guests, Kevin Mattson, is the author of Upton Sinclair and the Other American Century and C.J. Wallis curates "Cigarettes and Red Vines: The Definitive Paul Thomas Anderson Resource" website.Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices