Podcasts about Wild Honey

Atravesar el fuego de Fontán y Mi rendición de Lady Ma Belle. En el recorrido por la historia del pop español rescatamos grabaciones de, entre otros, Módulos (1971), Episodio (1982), Los Feliz (1997), Los Enemigos (2000), Dúo La Loba (2017) o Wild Honey (2021).

El primer tramo del episodio está dedicado a sobrevolar la trayectoria del gran Roy Head. Inmortalizado por su clásico “Treat her right” de 1965, Head fue un intérprete de eléctricos movimientos y poderosa voz rhythm‘n’soul. Se acaba de editar un álbum póstumo, “Last time around” (Wild Honey), que recoge las últimas grabaciones del cantante tejano fallecido en 2022.Playlist;ROY HEAD “Apple of my eye” (1965)ROY HEAD “Nobody but me (tells my eagle when to fly)” (1967)THE TRAITS “Live it up” (1959)ROY HEAD “Wigglin’ and gigglin’” (1966)ROY HEAD “Soul train” (1970)ROY HEAD feat DENIZ TEK “Undercover agent for the blues” (Last time around)ROY HEAD “Slow down, but don’t stop” (Last time around)ROY HEAD “Treat her right” (Last time around)CHRISTIE LAUME “Rouge Rouge” (1967)MARTA KUBISOVA “Tak dej se k nám a projdem svet” (1969)PALITO ORTEGA “Un muchacho como yo” (1966)TITO RAMÍREZ “Amanecer sin ti”LOS MEJILLONES TIGRE “Tiene que ser”NICK WATERHOUSE “Dead room”Escuchar audio

Honey is basically produced by bees - by collecting nectar from flowers. Therefore, it is recommended that you smell the honey before you start to consume it. RAW honey varies according to their botanical origin and the weather of the place where the plants grow. Synergy Global Enterprise LLC City: singapore Address: 111 North Bridge Road #21-01 Website: https://pixelproduction.com/

John serves as a bridge between the New Testament and the Old Testament.

What on earth was John The Baptist doing in the wilderness? And what does it mean for our own Jesus journeys? Tatiana and Leah discuss the Bible's call to the simple life.Website

In this exciting episode, we dive deep into the biggest questions surrounding the 2025 Disc Golf Pro Tour season! Ricky Wysocki, one of the top disc golfers in the world, is making moves, and fans are wondering: Who will he be playing for next season? We discuss all the latest signings and player moves in the Disc Golf Pro Tour and what it means for the sport moving forward. We also cover the 2025 disc golf manufacturer signings and who they have released, including some of the most anticipated disc golfers in the sport. In addition, we're joined by Happy with Par's Anthony Taylor, who gives us a breakdown of his favorite molds from Clash Discs, including a closer look at his go-to drive, the Wild Honey. If you're a fan of disc golf, you won't want to miss the inside scoop on the newest offerings hitting the shelves. Whether you're a Disc Golf Pro Tour fan, a disc golf enthusiast, or someone looking for tips on the best discs to throw, this episode has something for everyone! Don't forget to like, subscribe, and hit the bell for more content on everything Disc Golf! Happy with Par Disc Golf Apparel https://www.happywithpar.com/ CVP Merch Shop https://b2842e-a7.myshopify.com/ Support The Pod https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/courtesyviolationpod/support Spotify https://open.spotify.com/show/0BCNJlXk0j6mTr8BS0c7W6?si=d13d8827bb594368 Apple Podcast https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/courtesy-violation-disc-golf-podcast/id1631228548 X/Twitter https://x.com/CViolationpod Instagram https://www.instagram.com/cviolationpod/ Intro Song by Fascinus Rex https://beacons.ai/fascinusrex Tags: #discgolf #podcast #sports

Click here to send me a text message ...Here's a seasonal offering of word and song that will warm your heart, whether it's Christmas you celebrate, the Winter Solstice, Festivus, or any of the many other culturally rich wintertime observances. As we turn inward at this time of year, we also turn back, longing for the comforts of a home that is lost to us now. For those of us with Celtic or Western European roots, Peia's music is deeply evocative of those ancestral roots long buried beneath our fast-paced modern life. Here she shares her songs and talks with me about the soulful path to making such soul-filled music. PS. This is the 150th episode of The Mystic Cave. Thanks so much for listening! Tip: Use the Chapters tab to take you directly to Peia's songs. ResourcesPeia's website: https://peiasong.comPeia's two solo albums: Four Great Winds (2013) and Beauty Thunders (2016)Peia's collaborations: Wild Honey, Ali Ghamsari, Rising Appalachia & othersPersonal LinksMy web site (where you can sign up for my blog): https://www.brianepearson.caMy email address: mysticcaveman53@gmail.comSeries Music Credit"Into the Mystic" by Van Morrison, performed by Colin James, from the album, Limelight, 2005; licensed under SOCAN 2022

Nueva entrega de Música de Contrabando, semanario de actualidad musical en Onda Regional Murcia (31/10/24)Entrevistas:- Arde Bogotá en la recta final de su gira. Hablamos con su cantante, Antonio García- Reunimos a Dead Beens y Loganz.Noticias:Se anuncia The Second Generation: Live Magic 1968-1993, una caja de 30 CDs de conciertos de John Mayall. Muere Phil Lesch, bajista de Grateful Dead. Iggy Pop anuncia Live at Montreux Jazz Festival. 4AD celebra los 30 años de Teenager of the year de Frank Black. Interstella 5555 de Daft Punk llegará a las pantallas de cine. Manolo García publica libro de relatos. King Gizzard & The Lizard Wizard anuncian disco y gira con orquesta. Oasis cancelarán más de 50 mil entradas vendidas en la reventa. VIVA Suecia anuncia 5 conciertos muy especiales para celebrar su 10 aniversario. Primeras confirmaciones del Warm Up 2025 (Franz Ferdinand).NovedadesManic Street Preachers, Temples, Inhaler, Amateur, Joaquín Sabina, Aló Presidente, Carlos Dechari, Joaquín Talismán y Los Chamanes, Alondra Bentley, Amaral, Wild Honey, Pinpilipussies, Rinôçérôse, Elefantes ft Viva Suecia, Junio + Repion, Cosmética, Francis Sarabia, Joe Crepúsculo, Carlangas ft Russian Red, Chucho, Vera Fauna, Levitants, Denison Witmer, The Miguélez, Ilegales, The Limiñanas, Pauline en la playa, Neón Vampire, Little Moon, Go Cactus, Agenda de conciertos:43 Cartagena Jazz(Theo Croke,), Dead Beens, Loganz, Antioxidantes (Belako, Ghostwoman, Pau From Marc), Tronco, Perdón, Andrea Buenavista, Las Ninyas del Corro, Tangerine Flavour...

It is on honor to have Ollie Visick from the University of Sussex, UK, as our guest at the Salon. Ollie Visick is a fourth-year PhD student at the University of Sussex, UK, studying wild honey bee colonies under the supervision of Professor Francis Ratnieks. His main areas of research are wild colony density and nest site availability. He has reviewed the colony density literature and conducted his own surveys in southeast England. He is monitoring over 40 honey bee nest sites on 6 estates in Sussex and Kent to calculate long-term changes in colony density. He has surveyed over 1,000 ancient, veteran and other listed trees at an additional 10 sites to determine whether they represent important nest sites for wild colonies. He has also used waggle dance decoding of honey bee swarms to assess whether wild colonies are limited by nest sites in mixed urban-rural areas.

Beave laments the fallen Guardians but shares his night at the wild Game 3 -- the best baseball game he has ever attended. Plus the WNBA has a new champion in the New York Liberty and Len shows off his new Sloot swag. Beave innocently asks how reading The New Yorker is going, and Len explodes. Plus "I Recommend", Beave's review of the new Ministry album, the Beach Boys' "Wild Honey" -- how good is that LP? And secret Top 40 hits featuring Oleta Adams and the Addrisi Brothers (who?) TUNE IN!

...y más nuevas canciones de Biela, Green T, Judeline, Janire, Elys Cöttet,  Wild Honey, Copiloto y Chucho, Escuchar audio

...y más nuevas canciones de Alexanderplatz, Wild Honey, Paul Zinnard, Carmelita, Dani Vega, Carasueño y Gruff Rhys.Escuchar audio

Hosts Jim DeRogatis and Greg Kot share new music they're digging that flies under the mainstream radar, buried treasures! They also hear selections from their production staff.Come to our live event in Chicago with Fruit Bats!Join our Facebook Group: https://bit.ly/3sivr9TBecome a member on Patreon: https://bit.ly/3slWZvcSign up for our newsletter: https://bit.ly/3eEvRnGMake a donation via PayPal: https://bit.ly/3dmt9lUSend us a Voice Memo: Desktop: bit.ly/2RyD5Ah Mobile: sayhi.chat/soundops Featured Songs:La Luz, "Strange World," News of the Universe, Sub Pop, 2024The Peawees, "Banana Tree," One Ride, Wild Honey, 2024Penza Penza, "Much Sharper, More Focused," Alto E Primitivo, Funk Night, 2024Half Waif, "Figurine," See You at the Maypole, ANTI, 2024Tigran Hamasyan, "The Kingdom," The Bird Of A Thousand Voices, Yergatun, 2024Chimers, "Glossary," Glossary (Single), 12XU, 2024Angry Blackmen, "The Legend of ABM," The Legend of ABM, Deathbomb Arc, 2024Semifamous, "Pedestal in Hell," Destroy Ourselves, Rare Bird/Duck, 2024Deep Tunnel Project, "Gold Standard," Deep Tunnel Project, Comedy Minus One, 2024Capital Soiree, "Reruns," Reruns - EP, Capital Soiree, 2023Anna Butterss, "Pokemans," Mighty Vertebrate, International Anthem, 2024Noga Erez, "GODMOTHER," The Vandalist, Neon Gold, 2024Sima Cunningham, "Nothing," High Roller, Ruination, 2024Bathe, "Avalon," Inside Voice(s): Side A, MNRK Music Group, 2024Shabazz Palaces, "…Down 155th in the MCM Snorkel (OCnotes 40 Acres and All The Grease Flip)," OCnotes Remixes, Sub Pop, 2024Bob Dylan, "Only a Pawn In Their Game," The Times They Are a-Changin', Columbia, 1964See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

In this episode of Two Bees in a Podcast, released on September 3, 2024, Dr. Jamie Ellis and Amy Vu welcome back Kaylin Kleckner—a PhD candidate at the Honey Bee Research and Extension Laboratory at the University of Florida—to talk about wild honey bee colonies as well as some specific research she is doing in South Africa. This episode concludes with a Q&A segment. Check out our website: www.ufhoneybee.com, for additional resources from today's episode. 

Become a Sponsor of the In My Beach Boys Room Podcasthttps://www.matthewhartzmusic.com/sponsorIn this episode of In My Beach Boys Room, hosts Matthew Hartz and Adam Schreiner take a deep dive into the Beach Boys' 1967 album Wild Honey. Known for its raw, soulful sound, Wild Honey stands apart in the Beach Boys' catalog, and the hosts explore each track with insightful musical analysis. From the R&B-inspired title track to the underrated gems hidden throughout the album, Adam and Matthew break down the unique elements that give Wild Honey its distinct character.Timestamps00:00 Intro03:55 Wild Honey Context28:05 Wild Honey35:00 Aren't You Glad44:30 I Was Made to Love Her49:30 Country Air53:15 A Thing or Two58:30 Darlin'01:04:20 I'd Love Just Once to See You01:08:30 Here Comes the Night01:12:50 Let the Wind Blow01:16:20 How She Boogalooed It01:18:25 Mama Sayswww.matthewhartzmusic.com

Hey Biblos Family, we hope you enjoyed this week's episode. If you haven't yet, make sure to leave a review and let us know your thoughts on the content this week. Also, make sure to add our podcast to your library if you haven't yet, so you don't miss our weekly content.  Also, check out ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠seedgiver.org⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠, and consider becoming a part of this missions initiative. With your spare change, you can change the world!

Hey Biblos Family, we hope you enjoyed this week's episode. If you haven't yet, make sure to leave a review and let us know your thoughts on the content this week. Also, make sure to add our podcast to your library if you haven't yet, so you don't miss our weekly content.  Also, check out ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠seedgiver.org⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠, and consider becoming a part of this missions initiative. With your spare change, you can change the world!

Become a Sponsor of the In My Beach Boys Room Podcasthttps://www.matthewhartzmusic.com/sponsorSmiley Smile, Wild Honey, 1967 - In My Beach Boys Room Podcast - Episode 9 (S1)https://youtu.be/Hkch2qyUoKgIn this episode of the In My Beach Boys Room podcast, Adam Schreiner and Matthew Hartz take you on a journey through the Beach Boys' "Smiley Smile" album. Experience an in-depth analysis of each track, uncovering the unique artistic choices that define this quirky and beloved record. Whether you're a longtime fan or new to the album, this exploration offers fresh perspectives on "Smiley Smile" and its place in the Beach Boys' discography.00:00 Intro23:40 Heroes and Villans28:25 Vegetables33:00 Fall Breaks/Back to Winter/W. Woodpecker38:00 She's Goin' Bald49:30 Little Pad58:00 Good Vibrations58:45 With Me Tonight01:03:15 Wind Chimes01:11:30 Gettin' Hungry01:16:30 Wonderful01:20:00 Whistle Inwww.matthewhartzmusic.com

UN VERANO INVENCIBLE. Con las canciones de: DAGA VOLADORA, WILD HONEY, JONSTON, GALERNA, THEE SACRED SOULS, VALERIE JUNE, MAVIS STAPLES, UNIDAD Y ARMONIA.

Join me for an inspiring episode of Thoughtfully Mindless as I sit down with my sister, Marisa, in "Creative Journeys: Marisa on Wild Honey Artistry." In this 50th episode of Thoughtfully Mindless, Marisa shares her incredible journey from her early days in Vegas to building her successful business, Wild Honey Artistry, in Nashville. We delve into her artistic evolution from brows to fine line tattoos, and how she has learned to trust her intuition in her creative endeavors. Marisa offers valuable insights into balancing passion and business, overcoming challenges, and staying authentic in her art. Whether you're an aspiring artist, an entrepreneur, or someone interested in the creative process, this episode provides a wealth of knowledge and inspiration. Tune in to hear Marisa's story and gain inspiration from her journey of creativity and entrepreneurship. Wild Honey Artistry website: https://www.wildhoneyartistry.com/ Thoughtfully Middless website: https://thoughtfullymindless.com/

The Jokermen find themselves at odds over 1967's Wild Honey, which is either a kind of annoying set of unremarkable songs, or a total masterpiece on par with their very best records. Plus: Sparky's Root Beer. SUBSCRIBE TO JOKERMEN ON PATREON FOR ACCESS TO ALL EPISODES AD-FREE

Nueva entrega de Música de Contrabando, semanario de actualidad musical (27/6/24) Entrevistas: - Yarea está trabajando en su segundo álbum, pero antes abrirá Los Atardeceres del Camino- Alvaro del Campo (The Runarounds ) nos presenta el primer largo de Loganz, "Night Life", donde mantiene su querencia por las buenas melodías- Hay una excitación tremenda con la irrupción de los trepidantes Norte Perdido, a los que reunimos ¿de dónde salen estos?Noticias:Queen vende su catálogo por 1000 millones de dólares. Billie Eilish se convierte en la tercera artista con más de 100 millones de oyentes mensuales en Spotify. M-I.A. lanza un sombrero protector con las ondas 5G, la armadura moderna en la era de la guerra tecnológica. La posibilidad de una reunión de Oasis se desvanece, La indstria musical contra el mal uso de la IA. 20 años después La Granja estrena disco, Paul Weller reedita en vinilo “Fly on the wall”. St Vincent anuncia dos shows en España. Novedades;Van Morrison, Manu Chao, Muerdo, Pond, Coldplay, The Mysterines, Bright Eyes, The Waewe, King Krule, Bloc Party, Honne, Dorian y Santiago Motorizado, Amaral, Carmesí, Jimena Amarillo, Dr Explosion, Vosotras Veréis, Wild Honey, El Buen Hijo, The Cat Empre, Mujeres ft La Élite, Kim Gordon, Chinese American Bear, Cold Gawd, Russian Red, Carey, Agenda de conciertos; Burning, CreaMurcia Final Otras Tendencias _Juno, Claudia León, La Culpa , Yakuzza, Luperrock, Ave Alcaparra, Fortaleza Sound, Karavana, Sunsetland Festival, Especial Palestina de La Navaja Producciones, Jazz San Javier, Los Conciertos del Camino, Yarea.

Brian & Michael D'Addario write great songs and release great albums, something they very much have in common with our mutual favorite band.  The fertile period following the collapse of the mythic Smile project offers myriad auditory treasures, not least of all this charming soul confection from the fall of 1967.  In this episode, we reveal: A sneak-attack rating of The Lemon Twigs' entire discography; How the myth of their unreleased masterpiece Smile made the lo-fi Beach Boys era an even more bemusing mindscrambler of a prospect for the record-buying public to accept; And The Lemon Twigs' prowess in getting me to a place of love and acceptance with all the latter-era Beach Boys records, including the mound of feces called Summer In Paradise. Listen: https://podfollow.com/1592182331  Discograffiti's 4-show-a-week release schedule can be all yours for the price of a cup of coffee a week. Please visit Patron.com/Discograffiti to peruse our plethora of subscription options.   To order the Digital version of Discograffiti's METAL MACHINE MUZAK 2xLP release (feat. Lou Barlow, Cory Hanson, Mark Robinson, & W. Cullen Hart): www.patreon.com/discograffiti/shop/197404 Also, please help support the show by ordering some choice goods from our new merch shop:  https://discograffitipod.myspreadshop.com/all CONNECT Join our Soldiers of Sound Facebook Group: https://www.facebook.com/groups/1839109176272153 Patreon: www.Patreon.com/Discograffiti Podfollow: ⁠⁠https://podfollow.com/1592182331⁠⁠ YouTube Channel: www.youtube.com/channel/UClyaQCdvDelj5EiKj6IRLhw Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/discograffitipod/ Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/Discograffiti/ Twitter: https://twitter.com/Discograffiti To order the Digital version of the METAL MACHINE MUZAK 2xLP (feat. Lou Barlow, Cory Hanson, Mark Robinson, & W. Cullen Hart): www.patreon.com/discograffiti/shop/197404 To Order the METAL MACHINE MUZAK Double Vinyl + Digital package: https://www.patreon.com/discograffiti/shop/metal-machine-muzak-double-vinyl-digital-169954 Merch Shop: https://discograffitipod.myspreadshop.com/all Web site: http://discograffiti.com/ CONTACT DAVE Email: dave@discograffiti.com Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/hooligandave Instagram:  https://www.instagram.com/davidgebroe/ Twitter: https://twitter.com/DaveGebroe #thelemontwigs #lemontwigs #foxygen #capturedtracks #powerpop #weyesblood #thebeachboys #beachboys #brianwilson #carlwilson #wildhoney #adreamisallweknow #discograffiti #metalmachinemuzak #soldiersofsound #letthewindblow #endlessharmony #songsforthegeneralpublic #jonathanrado #toddrundgren  --- Send in a voice message: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/discograffiti/message Support this podcast: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/discograffiti/support

Deniz Tek, músico de Michigan que se convirtió en leyenda como fundador, compositor y guitarrista de los australianos Radio Birdman a mediados de los años 70. Con motivo de su 30 aniversario el sello Wild Honey reedita su álbum “Outside” de 1994, grabado al frente del Deniz Tek Group, una de las formaciones más poderosas que le han acompañado nunca al hombre de hielo. En ese disco Deniz dio forma a una colección de canciones que condensa la quintaesencia de su personal estilo a la hora de manejar el high energy rock’n’roll. La reedición en formato doble álbum llega acompañada de un disco de extras que recoge EP’s y grabaciones en directo de aquellos días.Playlist;(sintonía) DENIZ TEK “Hondo’s dog” (Deniz Tek Collection Vol. 3: Outside, 2024)DENIZ TEK “Blood from a stone” (Deniz Tek Collection Vol. 3: Outside, 2024)DENIZ TEK “Day to ride” (Deniz Tek Collection Vol. 3: Outside, 2024)DENIZ TEK “Outside” (Deniz Tek Collection Vol. 3: Outside, 2024)DENIZ TEK “Searching (acoustic)” (Deniz Tek Collection Vol. 3: Outside, 2024)DENIZ TEK “Not right” (Deniz Tek Collection Vol. 3: Outside, 2024)NEW CHRISTS “Waves form” (Incantations, 2014)LOS REVELATORS “Dotted line” (Revelation, 2023)LOS CONTENTOS “Cuando ríes” (2, 1990)JOSELE SANTIAGO y LOS PROFESIONALES “El secreto de mamá” (Tributo a Los Contentos, 2015)SIOUXSIE AND THE SKUNKS “Mushroom” (Songs about cuddles, 2024)CYANIDE PILLS “The kids can’t be trusted with rock’n’roll” (Soundtrack to the new cold war, 2023)TV SMITH and SUZY y los QUATTRO “What if?” (single, 2003)TV SMITH “Replay” (I delete, 2014).Escuchar audio

For those who haven't heard the announcement I just posted , songs from this point on will sometimes be split among multiple episodes, so this is the second part of a multi-episode look at the Byrds in 1966-69 and the birth of country rock. Click the full post to read liner notes, links to more information, and a transcript of the episode. Patreon backers also have a half-hour bonus episode, on "With a Little Help From My Friends" by Joe Cocker. Tilt Araiza has assisted invaluably by doing a first-pass edit, and will hopefully be doing so from now on. Check out Tilt's irregular podcasts at http://www.podnose.com/jaffa-cakes-for-proust and http://sitcomclub.com/ Resources No Mixcloud at this time as there are too many Byrds songs in the first chunk, but I will try to put together a multi-part Mixcloud when all the episodes for this song are up. My main source for the Byrds is Timeless Flight Revisited by Johnny Rogan, I also used Chris Hillman's autobiography, the 331/3 books on The Notorious Byrd Brothers and The Gilded Palace of Sin, I used Barney Hoskyns' Hotel California and John Einarson's Desperadoes as general background on Californian country-rock, Calling Me Hone, Gram Parsons and the Roots of Country Rock by Bob Kealing for information on Parsons, and Requiem For The Timeless Vol 2 by Johnny Rogan for information about the post-Byrds careers of many members. Information on Gary Usher comes from The California Sound by Stephen McParland. And this three-CD set is a reasonable way of getting most of the Byrds' important recordings. The International Submarine Band's only album can be bought from Bandcamp. Patreon This podcast is brought to you by the generosity of my backers on Patreon. Why not join them? Transcript Before we begin, a brief warning – this episode contains brief mentions of suicide, alcoholism, abortion, and heroin addiction, and a brief excerpt of chanting of a Nazi slogan. If you find those subjects upsetting, you may want to read the transcript rather than listen. As we heard in the last part, in October 1967 Roger McGuinn and Chris Hillman fired David Crosby from the Byrds. It was only many years later, in a conversation with the group's ex-manager Jim Dickson, that Crosby realised that they didn't actually have a legal right to fire him -- the Byrds had no partnership agreement, and according to Dickson given that the original group had been Crosby, McGuinn, and Gene Clark, it would have been possible for Crosby and McGuinn to fire Hillman, but not for McGuinn and Hillman to fire Crosby. But Crosby was unaware of this at the time, and accepted a pay-off, with which he bought a boat and sailed to Florida, where saw a Canadian singer-songwriter performing live: [Excerpt: Joni Mitchell, "Both Sides Now (live Ann Arbor, MI, 27/10/67)"] We'll find out what happened when David Crosby brought Joni Mitchell back to California in a future story... With Crosby gone, the group had a major problem. They were known for two things -- their jangly twelve-string guitar and their soaring harmonies. They still had the twelve-string, even in their new slimmed-down trio format, but they only had two of their four vocalists -- and while McGuinn had sung lead on most of their hits, the sound of the Byrds' harmony had been defined by Crosby on the high harmonies and Gene Clark's baritone. There was an obvious solution available, of course, and they took it. Gene Clark had quit the Byrds in large part because of his conflicts with David Crosby, and had remained friendly with the others. Clark's solo album had featured Chris Hillman and Michael Clarke, and had been produced by Gary Usher who was now producing the Byrds' records, and it had been a flop and he was at a loose end. After recording the Gene Clark with the Gosdin Brothers album, Clark had started work with Curt Boettcher, a singer-songwriter-producer who had produced hits for Tommy Roe and the Association, and who was currently working with Gary Usher. Boettcher produced two tracks for Clark, but they went unreleased: [Excerpt: Gene Clark, "Only Colombe"] That had been intended as the start of sessions for an album, but Clark had been dropped by Columbia rather than getting to record a second album. He had put together a touring band with guitarist Clarence White, bass player John York, and session drummer "Fast" Eddie Hoh, but hadn't played many gigs, and while he'd been demoing songs for a possible second solo album he didn't have a record deal to use them on. Chisa Records, a label co-owned by Larry Spector, Peter Fonda, and Hugh Masekela, had put out some promo copies of one track, "Yesterday, Am I Right", but hadn't released it properly: [Excerpt: Gene Clark, "Yesterday, Am I Right"] Clark, like the Byrds, had left Dickson and Tickner's management organisation and signed with Larry Spector, and Spector was wanting to make the most of his artists -- and things were very different for the Byrds now. Clark had had three main problems with being in the Byrds -- ego clashes with David Crosby, the stresses of being a pop star with a screaming teenage fanbase, and his fear of flying. Clark had really wanted to have the same kind of role in the Byrds that Brian Wilson had with the Beach Boys -- appear on the records, write songs, do TV appearances, maybe play local club gigs, but not go on tour playing to screaming fans. But now David Crosby was out of the group and there were no screaming fans any more -- the Byrds weren't having the kind of pop hits they'd had a few years earlier and were now playing to the hippie audience. Clark promised that with everything else being different, he could cope with the idea of flying -- if necessary he'd just take tranquilisers or get so drunk he passed out. So Gene Clark rejoined the Byrds. According to some sources he sang on their next single, "Goin' Back," though I don't hear his voice in the mix: [Excerpt: The Byrds, "Goin' Back"] According to McGuinn, Clark was also an uncredited co-writer on one song on the album they were recording, "Get to You". But before sessions had gone very far, the group went on tour. They appeared on the Smothers Brothers TV show, miming their new single and "Mr. Spaceman", and Clark seemed in good spirits, but on the tour of the Midwest that followed, according to their road manager of the time, Clark was terrified, singing flat and playing badly, and his guitar and vocal mic were left out of the mix. And then it came time to get on a plane, and Clark's old fears came back, and he refused to fly from Minneapolis to New York with the rest of the group, instead getting a train back to LA. And that was the end of Clark's second stint in the Byrds. For the moment, the Byrds decided they were going to continue as a trio on stage and a duo in the studio -- though Michael Clarke did make an occasional return to the sessions as they progressed. But of course, McGuinn and Hillman couldn't record an album entirely by themselves. They did have several tracks in a semi-completed state still featuring Crosby, but they needed people to fill his vocal and instrumental roles on the remaining tracks. For the vocals, Usher brought in his friend and collaborator Curt Boettcher, with whom he was also working at the time in a band called Sagittarius: [Excerpt: Sagittarius, "Another Time"] Boettcher was a skilled harmony vocalist -- according to Usher, he was one of the few vocal arrangers that Brian Wilson looked up to, and Jerry Yester had said of the Modern Folk Quartet that “the only vocals that competed with us back then was Curt Boettcher's group” -- and he was more than capable of filling Crosby's vocal gap, but there was never any real camaraderie between him and the Byrds. He particularly disliked McGuinn, who he said "was just such a poker face. He never let you know where you stood. There was never any lightness," and he said of the sessions as a whole "I was really thrilled to be working with The Byrds, and, at the same time, I was glad when it was all over. There was just no fun, and they were such weird guys to work with. They really freaked me out!" Someone else who Usher brought in, who seems to have made a better impression, was Red Rhodes: [Excerpt: Red Rhodes, "Red's Ride"] Rhodes was a pedal steel player, and one of the few people to make a career on the instrument outside pure country music, which is the genre with which the instrument is usually identified. Rhodes was a country player, but he was the country pedal steel player of choice for musicians from the pop and folk-rock worlds. He worked with Usher and Boettcher on albums by Sagittarius and the Millennium, and played on records by Cass Elliot, Carole King, the Beach Boys, and the Carpenters, among many others -- though he would be best known for his longstanding association with Michael Nesmith of the Monkees, playing on most of Nesmith's recordings from 1968 through 1992. Someone else who was associated with the Monkees was Moog player Paul Beaver, who we talked about in the episode on "Hey Jude", and who had recently played on the Monkees' Pisces, Aquarius, Capricorn & Jones, Ltd album: [Excerpt: The Monkees, "Star Collector"] And the fourth person brought in to help the group out was someone who was already familiar to them. Clarence White was, like Red Rhodes, from the country world -- he'd started out in a bluegrass group called the Kentucky Colonels: [Excerpt: The Kentucky Colonels, "Clinch Mountain Backstep"] But White had gone electric and formed one of the first country-rock bands, a group named Nashville West, as well as becoming a popular session player. He had already played on a couple of tracks on Younger Than Yesterday, as well as playing with Hillman and Michael Clarke on Gene Clark's album with the Gosdin Brothers and being part of Clark's touring band with John York and "Fast" Eddie Hoh. The album that the group put together with these session players was a triumph of sequencing and production. Usher had recently been keen on the idea of crossfading tracks into each other, as the Beatles had on Sgt Pepper, and had done the same on the two Chad and Jeremy albums he produced. By clever crossfading and mixing, Usher managed to create something that had the feel of being a continuous piece, despite being the product of several very different creative minds, with Usher's pop sensibility and arrangement ideas being the glue that held everything together. McGuinn was interested in sonic experimentation. He, more than any of the others, seems to have been the one who was most pushing for them to use the Moog, and he continued his interest in science fiction, with a song, "Space Odyssey", inspired by the Arthur C. Clarke short story "The Sentinel", which was also the inspiration for the then-forthcoming film 2001: A Space Odyssey: [Excerpt: The Byrds, "Space Odyssey"] Then there was Chris Hillman, who was coming up with country material like "Old John Robertson": [Excerpt: The Byrds, "Old John Robertson"] And finally there was David Crosby. Even though he'd been fired from the group, both McGuinn and Hillman didn't see any problem with using the songs he had already contributed. Three of the album's eleven songs are compositions that are primarily by Crosby, though they're all co-credited to either Hillman or both Hillman and McGuinn. Two of those songs are largely unchanged from Crosby's original vision, just finished off by the rest of the group after his departure, but one song is rather different: [Excerpt: The Byrds, "Draft Morning"] "Draft Morning" was a song that was important to Crosby, and was about his -- and the group's -- feelings about the draft and the ongoing Vietnam War. It was a song that had meant a lot to him, and he'd been part of the recording for the backing track. But when it came to doing the final vocals, McGuinn and Hillman had a problem -- they couldn't remember all the words to the song, and obviously there was no way they were going to get Crosby to give them the original lyrics. So they rewrote it, coming up with new lyrics where they couldn't remember the originals: [Excerpt: The Byrds, "Draft Morning"] But there was one other contribution to the track that was very distinctively the work of Usher. Gary Usher had a predilection at this point for putting musique concrete sections in otherwise straightforward pop songs. He'd done it with "Fakin' It" by Simon and Garfunkel, on which he did uncredited production work, and did it so often that it became something of a signature of records on Columbia in 1967 and 68, even being copied by his friend Jim Guercio on "Susan" by the Buckinghams. Usher had done this, in particular, on the first two singles by Sagittarius, his project with Curt Boettcher. In particular, the second Sagittarius single, "Hotel Indiscreet", had had a very jarring section (and a warning here, this contains some brief chanting of a Nazi slogan): [Excerpt: Sagittarius, "Hotel Indiscreet"] That was the work of a comedy group that Usher had discovered and signed to Columbia. The Firesign Theatre were so named because, like Usher, they were all interested in astrology, and they were all "fire signs".  Usher was working on their first album, Waiting For The Electrician or Someone Like Him, at the same time as he was working on the Byrds album: [Excerpt: The Firesign Theatre, "W.C. Fields Forever"] And he decided to bring in the Firesigns to contribute to "Draft Morning": [Excerpt: The Byrds, "Draft Morning"] Crosby was, understandably, apoplectic when he heard the released version of "Draft Morning". As far as Hillman and McGuinn were concerned, it was always a Byrds song, and just because Crosby had left the band didn't mean they couldn't use material he'd written for the Byrds. Crosby took a different view, saying later "It was one of the sleaziest things they ever did. I had an entire song finished. They just casually rewrote it and decided to take half the credit. How's that? Without even asking me. I had a finished song, entirely mine. I left. They did the song anyway. They rewrote it and put it in their names. And mine was better. They just took it because they didn't have enough songs." What didn't help was that the publicity around the album, titled The Notorious Byrd Brothers minimised Crosby's contributions. Crosby is on five of the eleven tracks -- as he said later, "I'm all over that album, they just didn't give me credit. I played, I sang, I wrote, I even played bass on one track, and they tried to make out that I wasn't even on it, that they could be that good without me." But the album, like earlier Byrds albums, didn't have credits saying who played what, and the cover only featured McGuinn, Hillman, and Michael Clarke in the photo -- along with a horse, which Crosby took as another insult, as representing him. Though as McGuinn said, "If we had intended to do that, we would have turned the horse around". Even though Michael Clarke was featured on the cover, and even owned the horse that took Crosby's place, by the time the album came out he too had been fired. Unlike Crosby, he went quietly and didn't even ask for any money. According to McGuinn, he was increasingly uninterested in being in the band -- suffering from depression, and missing the teenage girls who had been the group's fans a year or two earlier. He gladly stopped being a Byrd, and went off to work in a hotel instead. In his place came Hillman's cousin, Kevin Kelley, fresh out of a band called the Rising Sons: [Excerpt: The Rising Sons, "Take a Giant Step"] We've mentioned the Rising Sons briefly in some previous episodes, but they were one of the earliest LA folk-rock bands, and had been tipped to go on to greater things -- and indeed, many of them did, though not as part of the Rising Sons. Jesse Lee Kincaid, the least well-known of the band, only went on to release a couple of singles and never had much success, but his songs were picked up by other acts -- his "Baby You Come Rollin' 'Cross My Mind" was a minor hit for the Peppermint Trolley Company: [Excerpt: The Peppermint Trolley Company, "Baby You Come Rollin' 'Cross My Mind"] And Harry Nilsson recorded Kincaid's "She Sang Hymns Out of Tune": [Excerpt: Harry Nilsson, "She Sang Hymns Out of Tune"] But Kincaid was the least successful of the band members, and most of the other members are going to come up in future episodes of the podcast -- bass player Gary Marker played for a while with Captain Beefheart and the Magic Band, lead singer Taj Mahal is one of the most respected blues singers of the last sixty years, original drummer Ed Cassidy went on to form the progressive rock band Spirit, and lead guitarist Ry Cooder went on to become one of the most important guitarists in rock music. Kelley had been the last to join the Rising Sons, replacing Cassidy but he was in the band by the time they released their one single, a version of Rev. Gary Davis' "Candy Man" produced by Terry Melcher, with Kincaid on lead vocals: [Excerpt: The Rising Sons, "Candy Man"] That hadn't been a success, and the group's attempt at a follow-up, the Goffin and King song "Take a Giant Step", which we heard earlier, was blocked from release by Columbia as being too druggy -- though there were no complaints when the Monkees released their version as the B-side to "Last Train to Clarksville". The Rising Sons, despite being hugely popular as a live act, fell apart without ever releasing a second single. According to Marker, Mahal realised that he would be better off as a solo artist, but also Columbia didn't know how to market a white group with a Black lead vocalist (leading to Kincaid singing lead on their one released single, and producer Terry Melcher trying to get Mahal to sing more like a white singer on "Take a Giant Step"), and some in the band thought that Terry Melcher was deliberately trying to sink their career because they refused to sign to his publishing company. After the band split up, Marker and Kelley had formed a band called Fusion, which Byrds biographer Johnny Rogan describes as being a jazz-fusion band, presumably because of their name. Listening to the one album the group recorded, it is in fact more blues-rock, very like the music Marker made with the Rising Sons and Captain Beefheart. But Kelley's not on that album, because before it was recorded he was approached by his cousin Chris Hillman and asked to join the Byrds. At the time, Fusion were doing so badly that Kelley had to work a day job in a clothes shop, so he was eager to join a band with a string of hits who were just about to conclude a lucrative renegotiation of their record contract -- a renegotiation which may have played a part in McGuinn and Hillman firing Crosby and Clarke, as they were now the only members on the new contracts. The choice of Kelley made a lot of sense. He was mostly just chosen because he was someone they knew and they needed a drummer in a hurry -- they needed someone new to promote The Notorious Byrd Brothers and didn't have time to go through a laborious process of audtioning, and so just choosing Hillman's cousin made sense, but Kelley also had a very strong, high voice, and so he could fill in the harmony parts that Crosby had sung, stopping the new power-trio version of the band from being *too* thin-sounding in comparison to the five-man band they'd been not that much earlier. The Notorious Byrd Brothers was not a commercial success -- it didn't even make the top forty in the US, though it did in the UK -- to the presumed chagrin of Columbia, who'd just paid a substantial amount of money for this band who were getting less successful by the day. But it was, though, a gigantic critical success, and is generally regarded as the group's creative pinnacle. Robert Christgau, for example, talked about how LA rather than San Francisco was where the truly interesting music was coming from, and gave guarded praise to Captain Beefheart, Van Dyke Parks, and the Fifth Dimension (the vocal group, not the Byrds album) but talked about three albums as being truly great -- the Beach Boys' Wild Honey, Love's Forever Changes, and The Notorious Byrd Brothers. (He also, incidentally, talked about how the two songs that Crosby's new discovery Joni Mitchell had contributed to a Judy Collins album were much better than most folk music, and how he could hardly wait for her first album to come out). And that, more or less, was the critical consensus about The Notorious Byrd Brothers -- that it was, in Christgau's words "simply the best album the Byrds have ever recorded" and that "Gone are the weak--usually folky--tracks that have always flawed their work." McGuinn, though, thought that the album wasn't yet what he wanted. He had become particularly excited by the potentials of the Moog synthesiser -- an instrument that Gary Usher also loved -- during the recording of the album, and had spent a lot of time experimenting with it, coming up with tracks like the then-unreleased "Moog Raga": [Excerpt: The Byrds, "Moog Raga"] And McGuinn had a concept for the next Byrds album -- a concept he was very excited about. It was going to be nothing less than a grand sweeping history of American popular music. It was going to be a double album -- the new contract said that they should deliver two albums a year to Columbia, so a double album made sense -- and it would start with Appalachian folk music, go through country, jazz, and R&B, through the folk-rock music the Byrds had previously been known for, and into Moog experimentation. But to do this, the Byrds needed a keyboard player. Not only would a keyboard player help them fill out their thin onstage sound, if they got a jazz keyboardist, then they could cover the jazz material in McGuinn's concept album idea as well. So they went out and looked for a jazz piano player, and happily Larry Spector was managing one. Or at least, Larry Spector was managing someone who *said* he was a jazz pianist. But Gram Parsons said he was a lot of things... [Excerpt: Gram Parsons, "Brass Buttons (1965 version)"] Gram Parsons was someone who had come from a background of unimaginable privilege. His maternal grandfather was the owner of a Florida citrus fruit and real-estate empire so big that his mansion was right in the centre of what was then Florida's biggest theme park -- built on land he owned. As a teenager, Parsons had had a whole wing of his parents' house to himself, and had had servants to look after his every need, and as an adult he had a trust fund that paid him a hundred thousand dollars a year -- which in 1968 dollars would be equivalent to a little under nine hundred thousand in today's money. Two events in his childhood had profoundly shaped the life of young Gram. The first was in February 1956, when he went to see a new singer who he'd heard on the radio, and who according to the local newspaper had just recorded a new song called "Heartburn Motel".  Parsons had tried to persuade his friends that this new singer was about to become a big star -- one of his friends had said "I'll wait til he becomes famous!" As it turned out, the day Parsons and the couple of friends he did manage to persuade to go with him saw Elvis Presley was also the day that "Heartbreak Hotel" entered the Billboard charts at number sixty-eight. But even at this point, Elvis was an obvious star and the headliner of the show. Young Gram was enthralled -- but in retrospect he was more impressed by the other acts he saw on the bill. That was an all-star line-up of country musicians, including Mother Maybelle and the Carter Sisters, and especially the Louvin Brothers, arguably the greatest country music vocal duo of all time: [Excerpt: The Louvin Brothers, "The Christian Life"] Young Gram remained mostly a fan of rockabilly music rather than country, and would remain so for another decade or so, but a seed had been planted. The other event, much more tragic, was the death of his father. Both Parsons' parents were functioning alcoholics, and both by all accounts were unfaithful to each other, and their marriage was starting to break down. Gram's father was also, by many accounts, dealing with what we would now call post-traumatic stress disorder from his time serving in the second world war. On December the twenty-third 1958, Gram's father died of a self-inflicted gunshot wound. Everyone involved seems sure it was suicide, but it was officially recorded as natural causes because of the family's wealth and prominence in the local community. Gram's Christmas present from his parents that year was a reel-to-reel tape recorder, and according to some stories I've read his father had left a last message on a tape in the recorder, but by the time the authorities got to hear it, it had been erased apart from the phrase "I love you, Gram." After that Gram's mother's drinking got even worse, but in most ways his life still seemed charmed, and the descriptions of him as a teenager are about what you'd expect from someone who was troubled, with a predisposition to addiction, but who was also unbelievably wealthy, good-looking, charming, and talented. And the talent was definitely there. One thing everyone is agreed on is that from a very young age Gram Parsons took his music seriously and was determined to make a career as a musician. Keith Richards later said of him "Of the musicians I know personally (although Otis Redding, who I didn't know, fits this too), the two who had an attitude towards music that was the same as mine were Gram Parsons and John Lennon. And that was: whatever bag the business wants to put you in is immaterial; that's just a selling point, a tool that makes it easier. You're going to get chowed into this pocket or that pocket because it makes it easier for them to make charts up and figure out who's selling. But Gram and John were really pure musicians. All they liked was music, and then they got thrown into the game." That's not the impression many other people have of Parsons, who is almost uniformly described as an incessant self-promoter, and who from his teens onwards would regularly plant fake stories about himself in the local press, usually some variant of him having been signed to RCA records. Most people seem to think that image was more important to him than anything. In his teens, he started playing in a series of garage bands around Florida and Georgia, the two states in which he was brought up. One of his early bands was largely created by poaching the rhythm section who were then playing with Kent Lavoie, who later became famous as Lobo and had hits like "Me and You and a Dog Named Boo". Lavoie apparently held a grudge -- decades later he would still say that Parsons couldn't sing or play or write. Another musician on the scene with whom Parsons associated was Bobby Braddock, who would later go on to co-write songs like "D-I-V-O-R-C-E" for Tammy Wynette, and the song "He Stopped Loving Her Today", often considered the greatest country song ever written, for George Jones: [Excerpt: George Jones, "He Stopped Loving Her Today"] Jones would soon become one of Parsons' musical idols, but at this time he was still more interested in being Elvis or Little Richard. We're lucky enough to have a 1962 live recording of one of his garage bands, the Legends -- the band that featured the bass player and drummer he'd poached from Lobo. They made an appearance on a local TV show and a friend with a tape recorder recorded it off the TV and decades later posted it online. Of the four songs in that performance, two are R&B covers -- Little Richard's "Rip It Up" and Ray Charles' "What'd I Say?", and a third is the old Western Swing classic "Guitar Boogie Shuffle". But the interesting thing about the version of "Rip it Up" is that it's sung in an Everly Brothers style harmony, and the fourth song is a recording of the Everlys' "Let It Be Me". The Everlys were, of course, hugely influenced by the Louvin Brothers, who had so impressed young Gram six years earlier, and in this performance you can hear for the first time the hints of the style that Parsons would make his own a few years later: [Excerpt: Gram Parsons and the Legends, "Let it Be Me"] Incidentally, the other guitarist in the Legends, Jim Stafford, also went on to a successful musical career, having a top five hit in the seventies with "Spiders & Snakes": [Excerpt: Jim Stafford, "Spiders & Snakes"] Soon after that TV performance though, like many musicians of his generation, Parsons decided to give up on rock and roll, and instead to join a folk group. The group he joined, The Shilos, were a trio who were particularly influenced by the Journeymen, John Phillips' folk group before he formed the Mamas and the Papas, which we talked about in the episode on "San Francisco". At various times the group expanded with the addition of some female singers, trying to capture something of the sound of the New Chrisy Minstrels. In 1964, with the band members still in school, the Shilos decided to make a trip to Greenwich Village and see if they could make the big time as folk-music stars. They met up with John Phillips, and Parsons stayed with John and Michelle Phillips in their home in New York -- this was around the time the two of them were writing "California Dreamin'". Phillips got the Shilos an audition with Albert Grossman, who seemed eager to sign them until he realised they were still schoolchildren just on a break. The group were, though, impressive enough that he was interested, and we have some recordings of them from a year later which show that they were surprisingly good for a bunch of teenagers: [Excerpt: The Shilos, "The Bells of Rhymney"] Other than Phillips, the other major connection that Parsons made in New York was the folk singer Fred Neil, who we've talked about occasionally before. Neil was one of the great songwriters of the Greenwich Village scene, and many of his songs became successful for others -- his "Dolphins" was recorded by Tim Buckley, most famously his "Everybody's Talkin'" was a hit for Harry Nilsson, and he wrote "Another Side of This Life" which became something of a standard -- it was recorded by the Animals and the Lovin' Spoonful, and Jefferson Airplane, as well as recording the song, included it in their regular setlists, including at Monterey: [Excerpt: Jefferson Airplane, "The Other Side of This Life (live at Monterey)"] According to at least one biographer, though, Neil had another, more pernicious, influence on Parsons -- he may well have been the one who introduced Parsons to heroin, though several of Parsons' friends from the time said he wasn't yet using hard drugs. By spring 1965, Parsons was starting to rethink his commitment to folk music, particularly after "Mr. Tambourine Man" became a hit. He talked with the other members about their need to embrace the changes in music that Dylan and the Byrds were bringing about, but at the same time he was still interested enough in acoustic music that when he was given the job of arranging the music for his high school graduation, the group he booked were the Dillards. That graduation day was another day that would change Parsons' life -- as it was the day his mother died, of alcohol-induced liver failure. Parsons was meant to go on to Harvard, but first he went back to Greenwich Village for the summer, where he hung out with Fred Neil and Dave Van Ronk (and started using heroin regularly). He went to see the Beatles at Shea Stadium, and he was neighbours with Stephen Stills and Richie Furay -- the three of them talked about forming a band together before Stills moved West. And on a brief trip back home to Florida between Greenwich Village and Harvard, Parsons spoke with his old friend Jim Stafford, who made a suggestion to him -- instead of trying to do folk music, which was clearly falling out of fashion, why not try to do *country* music but with long hair like the Beatles? He could be a country Beatle. It would be an interesting gimmick. Parsons was only at Harvard for one semester before flunking out, but it was there that he was fully reintroduced to country music, and in particular to three artists who would influence him more than any others. He'd already been vaguely aware of Buck Owens, whose "Act Naturally" had recently been covered by the Beatles: [Excerpt: Buck Owens, "Act Naturally"] But it was at Harvard that he gained a deeper appreciation of Owens. Owens was the biggest star of what had become known as the Bakersfield Sound, a style of country music that emphasised a stripped-down electric band lineup with Telecaster guitars, a heavy drumbeat, and a clean sound. It came from the same honky-tonk and Western Swing roots as the rockabilly music that Parsons had grown up on, and it appealed to him instinctively.  In particular, Parsons was fascinated by the fact that Owens' latest album had a cover version of a Drifters song on it -- and then he got even more interested when Ray Charles put out his third album of country songs and included a version of Owens' "Together Again": [Excerpt: Ray Charles, "Together Again"] This suggested to Parsons that country music and the R&B he'd been playing previously might not quite be so far apart as he'd thought. At Harvard, Parsons was also introduced to the work of another Bakersfield musician, who like Owens was produced by Ken Nelson, who also produced the Louvin Brothers' records, and who we heard about in previous episodes as he produced Gene Vincent and Wanda Jackson. Merle Haggard had only had one big hit at the time, "(My Friends Are Gonna Be) Strangers": [Excerpt: Merle Haggard, "(My Friends are Gonna Be) Strangers"] But he was about to start a huge run of country hits that would see every single he released for the next twelve years make the country top ten, most of them making number one. Haggard would be one of the biggest stars in country music, but he was also to be arguably the country musician with the biggest influence on rock music since Johnny Cash, and his songs would soon start to be covered by everyone from the Grateful Dead to the Everly Brothers to the Beach Boys. And the third artist that Parsons was introduced to was someone who, in most popular narratives of country music, is set up in opposition to Haggard and Owens, because they were representatives of the Bakersfield Sound while he was the epitome of the Nashville Sound to which the Bakersfield Sound is placed in opposition, George Jones. But of course anyone with ears will notice huge similarities in the vocal styles of Jones, Haggard, and Owens: [Excerpt: George Jones, "The Race is On"] Owens, Haggard, and Jones are all somewhat outside the scope of this series, but are seriously important musicians in country music. I would urge anyone who's interested in them to check out Tyler Mahan Coe's podcast Cocaine and Rhinestones, season one of which has episodes on Haggard and Owens, as well as on the Louvin Brothers who I also mentioned earlier, and season two of which is entirely devoted to Jones. When he dropped out of Harvard after one semester, Parsons was still mostly under the thrall of the Greenwich Village folkies -- there's a recording of him made over Christmas 1965 that includes his version of "Another Side of This Life": [Excerpt: Gram Parsons, "Another Side of This Life"] But he was encouraged to go further in the country direction by John Nuese (and I hope that's the correct pronunciation – I haven't been able to find any recordings mentioning his name), who had introduced him to this music and who also played guitar. Parsons, Neuse, bass player Ian Dunlop and drummer Mickey Gauvin formed a band that was originally called Gram Parsons and the Like. They soon changed their name though, inspired by an Our Gang short in which the gang became a band: [Excerpt: Our Gang, "Mike Fright"] Shortening the name slightly, they became the International Submarine Band. Parsons rented them a house in New York, and they got a contract with Goldstar Records, and released a couple of singles. The first of them, "The Russians are Coming, The Russians are Coming" was a cover of the theme to a comedy film that came out around that time, and is not especially interesting: [Excerpt: The International Submarine Band, "The Russians are Coming, The Russians are Coming"] The second single is more interesting. "Sum Up Broke" is a song by Parsons and Neuse, and shows a lot of influence from the Byrds: [Excerpt: The international Submarine Band, "Sum Up Broke"] While in New York with the International Submarine Band, Parsons made another friend in the music business. Barry Tashian was the lead singer of a band called the Remains, who had put out a couple of singles: [Excerpt: The Remains, "Why Do I Cry?"] The Remains are now best known for having been on the bill on the Beatles' last ever tour, including playing as support on their last ever show at Candlestick Park, but they split up before their first album came out. After spending most of 1966 in New York, Parsons decided that he needed to move the International Submarine Band out to LA. There were two reasons for this. The first was his friend Brandon DeWilde, an actor who had been a child star in the fifties -- it's him at the end of Shane -- who was thinking of pursuing a musical career. DeWilde was still making TV appearances, but he was also a singer -- John Nuese said that DeWilde sang harmony with Parsons better than anyone except Emmylou Harris -- and he had recorded some demos with the International Submarine Band backing him, like this version of Buck Owens' "Together Again": [Excerpt: Brandon DeWilde, "Together Again"] DeWilde had told Parsons he could get the group some work in films. DeWilde made good on that promise to an extent -- he got the group a cameo in The Trip, a film we've talked about in several other episodes, which was being directed by Roger Corman, the director who worked a lot with David Crosby's father, and was coming out from American International Pictures, the company that put out the beach party films -- but while the group were filmed performing one of their own songs, in the final film their music was overdubbed by the Electric Flag. The Trip starred Peter Fonda, another member of the circle of people around David Crosby, and another son of privilege, who at this point was better known for being Henry Fonda's son than for his own film appearances. Like DeWilde, Fonda wanted to become a pop star, and he had been impressed by Parsons, and asked if he could record Parsons' song "November Nights". Parsons agreed, and the result was released on Chisa Records, the label we talked about earlier that had put out promos of Gene Clark, in a performance produced by Hugh Masekela: [Excerpt: Peter Fonda, "November Nights"] The other reason the group moved West though was that Parsons had fallen in love with David Crosby's girlfriend, Nancy Ross, who soon became pregnant with his daughter -- much to Parsons' disappointment, she refused to have an abortion. Parsons bought the International Submarine Band a house in LA to rehearse in, and moved in separately with Nancy. The group started playing all the hottest clubs around LA, supporting bands like Love and the Peanut Butter Conspiracy, but they weren't sounding great, partly because Parsons was more interested in hanging round with celebrities than rehearsing -- the rest of the band had to work for a living, and so took their live performances more seriously than he did, while he was spending time catching up with his old folk friends like John Phillips and Fred Neil, as well as getting deeper into drugs and, like seemingly every musician in 1967, Scientology, though he only dabbled in the latter. The group were also, though, starting to split along musical lines. Dunlop and Gauvin wanted to play R&B and garage rock, while Parsons and Nuese wanted to play country music. And there was a third issue -- which record label should they go with? There were two labels interested in them, neither of them particularly appealing. The offer that Dunlop in particular wanted to go with was from, of all people, Jay Ward Records: [Excerpt: A Salute to Moosylvania] Jay Ward was the producer and writer of Rocky & Bullwinkle, Peabody & Sherman, Dudley Do-Right and other cartoons, and had set up a record company, which as far as I've been able to tell had only released one record, and that five years earlier (we just heard a snippet of it). But in the mid-sixties several cartoon companies were getting into the record business -- we'll hear more about that when we get to song 186 -- and Ward's company apparently wanted to sign the International Submarine Band, and were basically offering to throw money at them. Parsons, on the other hand, wanted to go with Lee Hazlewood International. This was a new label set up by someone we've only talked about in passing, but who was very influential on the LA music scene, Lee Hazlewood. Hazlewood had got his start producing country hits like Sanford Clark's "The Fool": [Excerpt: Sanford Clark, "The Fool"] He'd then moved on to collaborating with Lester Sill, producing a series of hits for Duane Eddy, whose unique guitar sound Hazlewood helped come up with: [Excerpt: Duane Eddy, "Rebel Rouser"] After splitting off from Sill, who had gone off to work with Phil Spector, who had been learning some production techniques from Hazlewood, Hazlewood had gone to work for Reprise records, where he had a career in a rather odd niche, producing hit records for the children of Rat Pack stars. He'd produced Dino, Desi, and Billy, who consisted of future Beach Boys sideman Billy Hinsche plus Desi Arnaz Jr and Dean Martin Jr: [Excerpt: Dino, Desi, and Billy, "I'm a Fool"] He'd also produced Dean Martin's daughter Deana: [Excerpt: Deana Martin, "Baby I See You"] and rather more successfully he'd written and produced a series of hits for Nancy Sinatra, starting with "These Boots are Made for Walkin'": [Excerpt: Nancy Sinatra, "These Boots are Made for Walkin'"] Hazlewood had also moved into singing himself. He'd released a few tracks on his own, but his career as a performer hadn't really kicked into gear until he'd started writing duets for Nancy Sinatra. She apparently fell in love with his demos and insisted on having him sing them with her in the studio, and so the two made a series of collaborations like the magnificently bizarre "Some Velvet Morning": [Excerpt: Lee Hazlewood and Nancy Sinatra, "Some Velvet Morning"] Hazlewood is now considered something of a cult artist, thanks largely to a string of magnificent orchestral country-pop solo albums he recorded, but at this point he was one of the hottest people in the music industry. He wasn't offering to produce the International Submarine Band himself -- that was going to be his partner, Suzi Jane Hokom -- but Parsons thought it was better to sign for less money to a label that was run by someone with a decade-long string of massive hit records than for more money to a label that had put out one record about a cartoon moose. So the group split up. Dunlop and Gauvin went off to form another band, with Barry Tashian -- and legend has it that one of the first times Gram Parsons visited the Byrds in the studio, he mentioned the name of that band, The Flying Burrito Brothers, and that was the inspiration for the Byrds titling their album The Notorious Byrd Brothers. Parsons and Nuese, on the other hand, formed a new lineup of The International Submarine Band, with bass player Chris Ethridge, drummer John Corneal, who Parsons had first played with in The Legends, and guitarist Bob Buchanan, a former member of the New Christy Minstrels who Parsons had been performing with as a duo after they'd met through Fred Neil. The International Submarine Band recorded an album, Safe At Home, which is now often called the first country-rock album -- though as we've said so often, there's no first anything. That album was a mixture of cover versions of songs by people like Johnny Cash and Merle Haggard: [Excerpt: The International Submarine Band, "I Must Be Somebody Else You've Known"] And Parsons originals, like "Do You Know How It Feels To Be Lonesome?", which he cowrote with Barry Goldberg of the Electric Flag: [Excerpt: The International Submarine Band, "Do You Know How It Feels To Be Lonesome?"] But the recording didn't go smoothly. In particular, Corneal realised he'd been hoodwinked. Parsons had told him, when persuading him to move West, that he'd be able to sing on the record and that some of his songs would be used. But while the record was credited to The International Submarine Band, everyone involved agrees that it was actually a Gram Parsons solo album by any other name -- he was in charge, he wouldn't let other members' songs on the record, and he didn't let Corneal sing as he'd promised. And then, before the album could be released, he was off. The Byrds wanted a jazz keyboard player, and Parsons could fake being one long enough to get the gig. The Byrds had got rid of one rich kid with a giant ego who wanted to take control of everything and thought his undeniable talent excused his attempts at dominating the group, and replaced him with another one -- who also happened to be signed to another record label. We'll see how well that worked out for them in two weeks' time.  

Hello Friends! We're kicking off the world of Mixology for 2024 with a bit of a theory based episode. Friends is one of The Beach Boys' best loved studio LPs. Issued in 1968, this did not see a mono issue in the USA, and elsewhere in the world any mono issues were done simply as fold-downs from the stereo mix. Thus, aside from 2 sides mixed to mono initially for 45 use, we have never been presented with an authorised mono mix of the album... or have we? Understanding the mixdown process for this album, and Brian Wilson's unique involvement in it, means that the monophonic LP saga for the group may not actually end with Wild Honey, and just maybe, that UK mono LP you hold might actually prove to have some worth...   Happy Listening, Frederick   Patreon   Email   Instagram

Hello Friends!   On this episode of Unhinged, we review, well, everything. Nia and special guest Trevor Hodge, mastermind behind sunshine surf pop band The Burkharts, talk Beach Boys songs, albums, and events in a rousing game of "This or That." Listen for the hottest takes on Wild Honey, a lot of praise for Sir Paul McCartney, an impossible choice between two infamous recording sessions, and a tease for a project that Nia and Trevor will work on within the next six years. And listen to The Burkharts if you haven't yet! Nia thinks their latest single "Valley Girl" is great!   Follow Nia!   Patreon Discord Instagram Twitter www.sailonsounds.com sailonpodcast@gmail.com  

Wild Honey features the vocals of Peia, Megan Danforth, and Cyrise Beatty Schachter who play multi-cultural folk music.

We're back to discuss Paul's second letter to the Corinthians and drink a couple of beers.

I would feed you with the finest wheat. I would satisfy you with wild honey from the rock. (NLT) Psalm 81 : 16

In this interview, we cover the very important topics of Wilding versus re-wilding, the invasive versus native narrative and what we need to do to create resilient ecosystems. Interview with Michael Theile of Apis Arboria. --- Send in a voice message: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/thehappyearthling/message

Picture it, the turn of the millennium, and the dawn of the online music revolution. jD just shelled out his last few dollars on The Tragically Hip's seventh studio record, Music at Work, unaware that it would mark the end of an era for him - his final first-day purchase. From there we take a deep dive into the album's reception, its relevance today, and the debate if it was a step out of The Hip's comfort zone.Make sure to get your tickets for Longslice Presents: Getting Hip to the Hip - An Evening for the Downie Wenjack Fund today! https://bit.ly/GHTTHTicketsTranscriptTrack 1:[0:00] Welcome to getting hip to the hip. I'm JD. I'm here as always with Pete and. [0:06] Tim How are you fellas doing this fine day? Track 3:[0:10] Doing great doing great Just getting it going and excited to be here and see a couple of my favorite dudes over the interwebs. Track 2:[0:19] I Am doing supercalifragilisticexpialidocious to fucking discuss this fucking record Oh, wow. Track 3:[0:27] Oh, boy. Track 2:[0:28] Oh, boy. Track 3:[0:29] So... Fasten your seatbelts, folks. Track 1:[0:31] Fasten your seatbelts, folks. Track 2:[0:32] What does that mean? Spoons, plural. Spoons full of sugar. Not just fucking... Not just one. Track 1:[0:39] The Disney references are just rolling out. Track 3:[0:41] Jeez. Track 1:[0:44] Well, we're here today to talk about the 2000 release, June 2000, the seventh studio record by seminal Canadian rock band The Tragically Hip. Music at work. Before we go into our vaunted segment of song by song, let's just get a general sense of what you guys thought of this record. Where you listened to it, what you were exposed to, how it formed over time. What do you think there, Pete? Track 2:[1:21] I'll be brief, because I want to really dive into the songs, too, but I will say, I listened to this record at work. Well, I was at my computer. Come on, Tim, did you want that one? Were you waiting to use that one? Track 3:[1:42] No, it was your turn. It was your turn. A lot of listeners right now are like, oh my god, we're out of here. Track 2:[1:52] Listen to it in the car. The sound system in the car made it really pop. But I will say, probably the best place to listen to it was on runs. It was just... I love the record. I really, really enjoyed this record profusely. So I'll say that. I'll leave it there. All right. Track 1:[2:21] Mr. Leiden. Track 3:[2:22] Yeah, so I listened to this. I had a bunch of headphone-based physical therapy the past week, and I pretty much had it on for all of that, which was very much focused movement and definitely could consider audio. And it was it was pretty good. It took me back to, I think, mostly to Live Between Us, like if we're gonna go apples to apples or apples and oranges throughout their discography thus far, for many reasons. And there's some songs on here I really like a lot. There's a couple that I thought were pretty different, like definitely a step out than past albums. And yeah, at one point I thought this might be my favorite so far in our work to get to this point. I thought this might be one of my favorite albums so far, but I'm still questioning it. I'm still thinking that there might be another one out there in the future that I just I Give you know nine point five two or whatever. Album Rating and Discussion on Critics' OpinionsTrack 1:[3:35] It might be Gotcha Yeah, this was rated relatively low by all music and what? Track 3:[3:43] Big fucking surprise They're like the professor that doesn't give a is you know, yeah, yeah negative five out of five I I have a little bit of a vibe with that, but I understand sometimes there's a great piece of work out there that still doesn't get the accolades it deserves, and that happens so often. Track 1:[4:06] Yeah. Well, shall we get into it? Track 3:[4:10] Yeah. Track 2:[4:12] What did they give it, by the way, J.D.? I'm curious. Track 1:[4:14] Three out of five. Track 3:[4:15] Three, right? Three out of five. So just some quick research on the title that I found of the album, Music at Work. So from what I read, it's poking fun at a rock station in Canada, 100.5 FM. Yeah. E-Zed Rock or Easy Rock, whichever. Track 4:[4:38] You went with Zed first. You're so Canadian. Oh my God. So Canadian. Track 3:[4:45] Music at Work was their tagline, you know. It was like, imagine this kind of 80s looking logo in essence like a corporatized Van Halen Firebird Camaro looking Easy Rock 100.5 FM and underneath at music at work. That makes sense. But I thought maybe, yeah, I thought maybe the hip tagging, you know, taking this tagline was perhaps their, I guess, you know, maybe even, I think it was their stab at back at clear channel. I thought like Like, these guys, yeah, yeah, yeah, I thought these guys are still talking. Track 2:[5:36] Was that a Clear Channel station? Track 3:[5:38] Rock and roll. Track 2:[5:39] I'm sure they were. Track 3:[5:40] Dude. Track 1:[5:41] It's a heavy format. Track 3:[5:42] I didn't look it up, but if you look at everything about it, I'm sure it is. Track 2:[5:48] And at that time, dude, nowadays it's like, it's not even a competition. Like Clear Channel owns the Airwaves, but I remember at that time it was like, you were We were starting to realize that every station was a clear channel station. Track 1:[6:02] Yeah. Yeah. Track 3:[6:04] Yeah. So, that was kind of some brief history on the album title. The first song, you know, title track, album name. The First Single from the RecordTrack 1:[6:40] You I think it's a, little bit of a, a That chives. Yeah, it was the first single from the record too. So okay. Yeah, it dropped a couple weeks before the record came out. Track 2:[7:33] Well, not to correct Tim, but I'm going to do it. Do it. It is not the title track. Ah, yes. The name of the track is actually my music at work. Yeah, interesting. And I didn't... No, no, no. Track 3:[7:54] I was really close, man. Track 2:[7:56] You were close, too. Track 3:[7:58] You know, okay. The influence of the... The Groove and Tightness of the New RecordTrack 2:[8:07] I mean, if I picture myself as I have now, listen, have listened to the previous hip records, anticipating this new record coming out, hearing this first track on this new record and just like putting it on volume up, start my car, light my cigarette, open my Red Bull, whatever the fuck I was doing in the year 2000. And just fucking wow. I mean, they must have just been like, fuck yes. I mean, this song, it was, I wrote this down. This is one of the things I wrote down in the notes. The song was born in the pocket. Like when you talk about when you're in the pocket, musically, I think we all know what that means. I'm sure most of the listeners know what it means. But it's just, it's in the pocket. It's just the groove, the rhythm, the fucking instruments, everything is just fucking tight and it fits, gourd sounds fucking great. It's a great build after the La La La with the soft guitar. Oh God, I've got to eventually get there. Track 3:[9:29] I'll just quickly add in there the La La La. Track 2:[9:30] Johnny Cain? Track 3:[9:31] Okay, go, go, go. Track 2:[9:32] Go ahead. No, no. You go ahead. Track 3:[9:35] I was going to fill in for you. The La La La part for this one, I mean that was new. We haven't had La La La's yet in soft. No, not really. Right. Track 2:[9:42] No, no, yeah But but Johnny Johnny Faye. Yeah drummer. Yeah Really just fucking builds it into where the song you know starts to go at that point and then there's a There's a Lord of the Rings reference in there. I think I feel like it is I took it as what cuz he says middle of the earth. Ah Which I'm always My record store that I grew up going to in down in California, now out of business, was called Middle Earth. And it was a fucking great record store. This is the type of record store where dollars to fucking donuts, man. If you were there in the 90s, they were like, if you went up to the front and asked this guy Larry for a recommendation, he would have fucking slipped you a hip record. Hands down. I was just too scared to fucking go up to Larry cause he was cool. Larry had a picture of David Bowie where David Bowie was smiling, not Larry. Track 1:[10:47] Wow. Track 2:[10:48] Like that goes to show you how cool fucking Larry was. Track 3:[10:51] You know what? I can't tell you how many. Stories I've heard about like interviews with artists who had that record store They went to growing up and how walking up to the clerk whoever was working was like the most intimidating thing Like you like you like so many artists would walk I've read it about it so many times Walking a record store with like kind of tail between your legs and you're afraid to purchase what you've picked For being ridiculed or anything, right? It's just it was like the most I mean think about it back You know in the 80s or 70s or 90s like going to Tower Records or wherever you go and grabbing that Item and walking up to this like hipper than thou person Clerk and trying to make over just yeah Yeah, this was before that it was common where people had like, you know Sleeves of tattoos and like ear and nose piercings like you saw somebody up there at the front with a fucking a bar through the nose a two sleeves of tattoos, and green hair. Track 2:[11:56] Everybody's got fucking green hair nowadays, right? And you're just like. Track 1:[12:00] Makes me sick. Track 2:[12:01] No, but you know what I'm saying? Like, you know, my nephew's got green hair for crying out loud. But like, I don't give a shit, you know, I'm telling my nephew what I'm listening to, but if, you know, back in the 90s, I walked up to the counter and saw somebody like that, that I was like dude I am not bringing up anything that's on the radio right yeah that's so cool that's so cool that you had this this tragically hip frame of reference from back in the record store days I mean I completely don't have that I had a bumper sticker in college you know of my apartment complex neighbor so. The Second Song: Messy and IncoherentTrack 3:[19:00] Yeah. Track 2:[19:00] Do you want to? I don't know. I mean, I'm ready to fucking blow up in there. You know what I'm saying? Okay. The fucking the second song. I mean, it's hard to top this second song. I mean, it is when I first heard it. I loved how it faded in from the first track. And then he just starts saying this is what the fuck is Tiger the Lion? Track 1:[19:30] I don't. Track 2:[19:30] I'm just saying the first time I heard it, right. And I did my research on it, which I kind of regret. I gotta stop looking at lyrics. Once I stopped looking at lyrics, these songs really open up for me. Track 1:[19:41] You can't stop though. It's gorg, right? Like, you know? Track 2:[19:45] No, but he eventually started listening to them and internalizing them, which is better for me than reading them. Either way, this fucking song, it just opens up so messy and incoherent and I'm like, what the fuck? I mean, again, putting myself in the position of a hit fan when they hear this for the first time. They're like, is this gorgeous going off on his fucking, you know, he wrote some crazy poetry and he's just, you know, free-forming it right now. What's he doing? You know, but the The instrumentation on it, it's so well thought out. Track 4:[20:24] Right? It's... Track 2:[20:26] I love how, because for me as a musician, my writing style is pretty incoherent. A lot of people say, like, lyrics wise, my shit doesn't make sense, which is, you know, it's not like I'm going for it, but it's just, it is what it is. But the John Cage quote? Track 3:[20:45] Yeah. Track 2:[20:46] Oh, fuck. I mean, I'm a huge John Cage, but just all about who that guy was as an individual who brought his brain to art and music. There's a melodic drop down, the purpose is not unique. I just, I don't know, dude, I did a little bit of research on the meaning of the song about it being like a reference to fighter pilots. Did you get that too, Tim? Track 3:[21:21] Yep, yep, yep. Big time. There's been so many World War II references that I just, you know, I instantly went to that, which I have a emotional family connection to World War II, so that hits heavy for me. Track 2:[21:36] Two-way radio, yeah. But, uh, this, line... JD, I thought of you when I read this. But not to get order from chaos. Tell you how to create simply wait to your life like, like, there's, there, there is no order. Yeah, there's no other shoe that were, you know, and I don't know, dude, this fucking song is, I still can't fucking and unwrap it and make sense of it. It's just a fucking banger. Yeah. What a song. Living in the Music: Appreciating Art without Analyzing LyricsTrack 3:[22:15] I mean, Pete, as a, maybe you can clarify a little bit for me, as a songwriter, you, when this one came on and you listened through it and you say that you, sometimes you don't want to research lyrics just so you can live in it in your head as much as possible, right? Is that kind of your sentiment? Right? Track 2:[22:34] I mean, I think, I think the lyrics, Because I think that what you, for me, this is me personally, what I tend to do is, is rather than physically listen to the song, which is what the medium is meant to do for listening, I'm reading what I'm listening to. And so it starts to, I start to make judgment upon what I'm listening to based on what I'm reading. Which is never like there's so many weird fucking lyrics in this fucking record And I'm sure we can talk about it till the cows come home Yeah But it did me it did more damage for me in the beginning because it was like I'm not fucking getting this I'm not getting this and then I just was like, okay I put the lyrics down and then I just started to listen to it incessantly. Okay, this shit's fucking making sense. Okay. Got it and then not to Not to bury the lead, but I mean if you don't get the fucking Comfortably Numb, Rob Baker literally Channeling the fucking David Gilmour in this fucking song. I mean What do you I mean, what are we doing here? There's one drop where it doesn't it doesn't go down to the next chord that you just feel like it's like going to country, but it doesn't go there and it's just... [24:01] Yeah, his guitar tone, everything about it. He's using the Strat on this. [24:06] Fucking it's great song. Sorry. Yeah. Amazing song. Track 3:[24:10] For me to go from music at work to this was like, whoa, this is, you know, if this is second gear for taking off in the car, and it's like, what did our car just change into? Because the song is, Because the song is its own beast. Man, me and my dad jokes, dad puns, tiger, the lion. So I mean, this is the longest song on the album. It's 5 and 1 1⁄2 minutes. And I love songs that can hit 5, 6, 7 minute mark, and you don't even know they're that long. Track 1:[24:47] Yeah. Track 3:[24:48] Like sometimes you hear a song, and you're like, god damn, These guys just wanted this to be the longest song ever, and they succeeded. But this one, it's very, no, it doesn't feel that long. And I think, Pete, you touched on most of it. But the themes, I guess I should say, I don't read the lyrics or look into the lyrics until I've listened to one of these albums in great length or many times. So I try not to pay attention to the lyrics. If I'm listening to it in the car and I'm at a stop for too long, then I can actually hit the whatever on Spotify to make the lyrics pop up. I'll check it out for a minute. But I try to live in my head for as long as possible, I think, kind of like you, Pete, to just get deep into the song. [25:44] The John Cage references. I mean, there's so much in this song in both that theme and kind of World War II themes, but the kind of two big takeaways for me were this song is about challenging the listener and society and anyone to appreciate, like, nature, art in life, or just art, or like literature or whatever it might be. And if you live your life without recognizing any art form, then you're like a fucking robot, you know? That's kind of, that's what the song was about to me in that regard, the John Cage regard and all of that. The his radio goes silent, you know that like I imagined this as like World War two airplane Pilot, you know the his engines destroyed And he's just falling from the sky, you know, like and stops working. This is where my head my engine stops working You have this like last bit of life where you hear the wind the radio stops working You know, you're on your way down. That's kind of where I went with. Track 1:[27:03] Whoa, that's heavy, man. Introduction and Researching Band MembersTrack 3:[27:04] Yeah, that's kind of how it felt to me. Okay, so I did some research around who else is playing with this band. Because we've talked about, at least the past album, I've been talking about, you know, who's that on backup singing blah blah blah blah blah. Right. So with this, I guess I would have talked about this at the beginning, but with this song we have a guy named Chris Brown from Toronto on keys, right? So he toured, He recorded and toured with the band with this album. He came from a band or was in a band called, Bourbon Tabernacle Choir. Yep, you got it. And from the 80s and 90s, which I heard of that, man. Yeah, which I didn't know an ounce about until I kind of did this research. So finally, I was making some headway with this album to hear who else we have contributing, which is an obvious impact to me as a listener to hear kind of extra elements going on. But this song, man, it could be its own album. That's what I thought. Like this song, this song on a 7-inch on one side, like it's hand me that. I'll pay 20 bucks for it. Like let's go. It's fucking that good. Track 1:[28:30] Yeah, I agree. Track 3:[28:32] Lake Fever, the next one. This is where I was like, okay, maybe we're shifting gears into like this perfect love song or forlorn love or is this a song about loss or remembrance or you know what is this what is this going on there's amazing prose within this song like was the brief dude seriously i knew pete was just like i knew his heart was melting for this It was probably driving down, you know, here's Pete, everybody in Spain, in his awesome vehicle. I don't even know what it is, and I don't want to know until I visit him someday, so no spoilers, J.D. But here's Pete in his awesome vehicle driving down some coastal highway in fucking Spain. This is a dude from the LBC, right? And this song comes on, and there's tears coming from Pete's face on this beautiful sunny day. It's like, I, I, you know, I'm, I'm hearing this song during fucking physical therapy. Therapy just gone. [29:42] Is this a wedding song or is it a funeral song or do I want this at my wake or do I play this for Amy on her next anniversary? Like what the fuck is this emotional song going on in place three after my music at work and after Tiger the Lion we have this Lake Fever. It's like what the hell so yeah it was this you know this this is that third gear song where i'm like okay, let's see let's see where this is gonna go what's this about is it oh yeah okay maybe it is about the cholera outbreak in toronto in 1834 oh fuck god damn it okay that's what it's about guess i'm I'm not playing at my anniversary. No, not playing at next April 14th, honey. Track 1:[30:38] But it's more than that because the protagonist is regaling his potential lover with that story. Like the song isn't necessarily about like fever. It's like this couple are walking in the woods about to go, you know, have sex. And he's so nervous that he's trying to like, you know, talk to this girl and he's telling her, well, there was this time in Toronto that there was a sewer back up and cholera got in the way and it went all the way up to Ottawa and near Kingston and it was terrible, many people died and she's just like, hurry, just hurry. Just Coital Fury, you know, like, yeah, that wine, man. Track 2:[31:26] Fuck, it's good. Dude, you know, I tell you, it's it's funny because I think it's just the Canadian. I mean, last week, Tim and I both heard the rush in fireworks for last week's a record but you know I started to hear the first thing I heard and now I like don't hear it at all but the first thing I heard with this song was the percussion feeling very once again very Alanis, right wow but yeah put that all kind of behind it's kind of all in the past dude the glockenspiel which I think they're using and like the keyboard effect over when he says the the word courage is I'm just you're right Tim I'm driving down the fucking coast in the mountainous windy roads of Malaga Spain and just fucking crying with my wind blowing, my air blowing in the wind. Cigarette out the window, the arm just like, Oh, just fucking loving this. [32:42] We're going to get into it a little bit more, because I because there's a there's a couple of songs on this record. And I remember I don't know what record it was, oh, it was, was Troll Dan House that I referred to as the Tragically Hips Xerope. Track 1:[33:01] Yes. Track 3:[33:02] Right, right. Track 2:[33:05] But, do you know what this record is? Track 1:[33:07] Yeah. Track 2:[33:07] And it's funny because this record actually came out before the record I'm going to reference. And I'll tell you why. Track 1:[33:14] All right, hit me. Track 2:[33:15] This is fucking the Tragically Hips Yankee Hotel Foxtrot. All of the fucking instrumentation on it, all the pianos, the echoey pianos, a lot of the guitars. It's so fucking Wilco, man. And so I started thinking to myself, well, you know, what, what the fuck did, what, you know, what do we, well, I'll get into it, I'll get into the next one. Track 1:[33:44] We'll go. Give her. Track 2:[33:46] Yeah, we're going to put it down. So this song, there's a line in there saying the United States of ricochet. Something something happy in way. You know what I'm talking about, JD? Track 1:[34:02] I don't know the lyric offhand though, sorry. Track 2:[34:04] Great fucking line. And I'm getting very like, ashes of American flags like references to because I feel like I feel like Gord was really, um, getting, like, a lot of the shit that he focused on was the, God, the phrase, the term I'm trying to look for, like the plight of Canadians. Okay. Track 3:[34:30] I got it. I got it here if you want me to read it. Track 2:[34:33] Yeah, you want to read it, Tim? Track 3:[34:35] Yeah, it's just United States of Ricochet from the Boardwalk to the Appian Way, which I... From the Boardwalk to the Appian Way, yeah, that's what I'm looking for. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Track 2:[34:42] Diamond Files, Corporate Wraves, you know. So he's, I feel like up until this point, he's made a lot of references to not just the indigenous folks up north, in terms of, you know, what he's talked about, and what I know he's eventually going to talk more about. But I started to think like, God, what other band do I know that did that? And like, that's kind of where Wilco went, you know, they had Uncle Tupelo and then AM, which was their first record. And being there were kind of like a soft watered down version of, of that country vibe of Uncle Tupelo. And then when they hit Yankee Hotel, it was like, Whoa, what the fuck is this? This is not the same band. I remember hearing and I got the same vibe. And so I, anyway, I Googled and started doing a little research, come to find out. So I read Jeff Tweedie's. Memoir, which is a great book, you'll get through it in a day, man. It's called Let's Go So We Can Get Back. And he references them on tour with Tragically Hip during the Another Roadside Attraction tour. Track 1:[36:03] That's right. The third one. That's right. Yeah, yeah. Wilco's Similarities to Other Bands and Songwriting InfluencesTrack 2:[36:07] Yeah. And just this record came out a year before Yankee Hotel. So I don't know what if they were trading demos back and forth or they were playing music together on Tour and but fuck man. I mean so many similarities with this record and that record interest so many Do you feel you might catch my drift here? Track 3:[36:32] But do you feel like? When you hear other bands and are reminded of Wilco do you feel like Wilco has just borrowed so much from other bands or do you feel like I'm not gonna we're not going to turn this into a Wilco podcast by the way or do you feel like Wilco like really do you feel like Wilco just absolutely stand on their own as songwriters because I mean that's there that's like to me songwriting music you know what I mean yeah I know what you mean um it's a good question and I'll answer it as short as possible because I think This is something you could fucking have a garage with a, you know, half ounce and fucking go on forever. Track 2:[37:17] But I think Jeff Tweedy is an amazing songwriter, and he'd probably be the first one to admit that they've taken so much from other people. But I think that that band, especially when they went in, their record, two records after they did Yankee Hotel was a record called Sky Blue Sky. When they really got into that, they were just like... They were at the top of their fucking game. and they they they knew how to um, but it's It's hard to say man. I mean It's a great question tim because I you could say the same for Tragically him who are they both big time? Track 3:[38:05] Yeah, we've had so many references. Track 2:[38:07] I don't think I don't think rob baker would he be the last person to say he wasn't fucking fucking playing the exact notes that Gilmore played on fucking comfortably on that guitar solo or on Tiger the Lion. But it's not like you're saying, oh, you're stealing. It's like, it's an homage. It's also working it into a song that is not that song is, you know, you do it all. I've been writing a tune this week that is a is a indie rock tune adapted from the fucking Opening theme of the one of the Legend of Zelda songs. So cool. And am I stealing from Koji Kondo? Yes but It's in so I look at it more as an inspiration. Track 3:[38:54] Well, I mean they I mean all all artists, you know are inspired from every direction I just I don't I don't want to get into it too deep. Track 1:[39:01] I just went from no Writers I think good songwriters Make it almost Like a magician, you know, like a good songwriter. You don't see the sleight of hand. You don't see the Palming you don't see it like they're absolute pros and they stand on their own But of course you can't help but be affected by what you are exposed to and what you enjoy, you know You can't help it. Track 2:[39:34] Yeah, yeah. Yeah, and JD, you're right when you say that, because there was something that I put down, and I think I sent it to you, but I put this down about a month and a half ago, and there was a little guitar lick I put on there, and it was Nell. I recorded it with a fucking jazzmaster. It was Nell's Climb from fucking Wilco. And I was like, I was so worried that it was so obvious, and I played it for Issa, my wife, And I played it for you and I think I was like was it too much and like no it's just it was just right It was perfect. It was like kind of like a little but to me it was like My ears I literally stole the fucking Notes from him and like I took them and I said those are mine now. Thank you very much You know, but like it's it's not easy to do man. I don't know JD. Track 3:[40:25] Yes. I thought it I think they pulled it was just me JD that Pete Pete called up in the middle of my night and serenaded me with some guitar licks. Damn, I'm not feeling as special now. Track 2:[40:40] You'll get it Tim, you'll get it. Track 3:[40:42] Hey, I thought putting down... Track 1:[40:43] Putting down, yeah. Track 3:[40:45] Yeah, so putting down, I felt like, I mean Pete commented on the, you know, the references and stories of this great continent and what we did to the Indigenous folks that were already here and the land grabs and you know that's hitting hard with this one and I feel like with Gord's themes and songwriting and his connotations of it all, this is that song for the album, I thought it was like big and heavy. [41:22] I didn't really know what it was about my first handful of listens. I couldn't really peg it until I did a little bit deeper diving into it. But you know, it was my first few listens, it was kind of like a car ride sing-along song. I felt, you know, it just felt familiar. It felt hip. I didn't think like, this is the best song on the album, and I thought it held its place on the album for what it was. So that's kind of where it ended with me. Cool. The next one, Stay, on the other hand, I thought, man, this song, it's quiet, it's cute, it's cute. I hadn't had that feeling before. Is it a thank you? You know, the Bureau Chiefs and the Shrugging Spies, I thought this was at first when I first heard this? I thought this is hilarious. Without researching, I thought this was like a thank you or something to the band's road crew, because I heard beer and cheese and shrugging spies, not bureau chiefs. I mean, I was like, I was so incorrect with this song. You were a great crew. You were a great you. You know, what is the storyline here? Is it about going to war and relationships or what? What is going on here? Track 1:[42:48] Maybe a little of everything. Track 3:[42:49] Yeah, maybe, but one, you know, after I did, after the leak, Sit down and kind of research what it's about. Hopefully Pete you have some more music based Comments about it, but one person I need to shout out here. The the handle is The letter Y Salvatore, there was a song meanings.com. [43:15] Reference from 2005 so this this is amazing it said one theory is the song is about Fox Mulder from the X-Files lines like there's no one up above us and with the Bureau Chiefs and the shrugging spies on the X-Files series Mulder is often working against the establishment as a sentiment in this song you've got no business in here brother Mulder is obsessed Pete from I'll go with UFO so lines like you see a light and then another this this song maybe it's about UFOs maybe it's about aliens I don't know this this was like this was a total head-scratcher for me not to say that I didn't like it but it was like what is this song about it wasn't beer and cheese I don't know it's not it's funny that you say that because one of the lines already is this song makes me want to sit in a pub and drink beer with my buddy. I didn't say eat cheese, but like, that's the vibe I got. Appreciating the musicianship on this recordTrack 2:[44:21] I mean, it's, um, there's, there's, okay. I could say a lot. I really liked this song a lot. I loved it. It. The riffing that Gore does with the vocals. I think there's a bridge part of all things being balanced where John Fahy's drums... I feel like every musician on this record, on this record, really shines. Like everybody shines. Gord Sinclair, I feel like, has always been really top-notch. That guy is fucking flawless. He's so underrated. Extremely underrated. Uh, when it comes to, you know, I, I just because I'm, you know, playing wise, obviously Gordoni, I mean, there's nothing you can say about that, but playing wise, Paul Langlois, am I saying? Langlois. Track 1:[45:25] Langlois. Track 2:[45:27] Um, and Rob Baker. I've always kind of gone back. I'm starting to appreciate the differences between those guys because they're two Diametrically different guitar players. I mean so different and and That happened on this album. Track 3:[45:43] Don't you? Track 2:[45:43] Oh, yeah more so really noticeable and I went down a bit of a rabbit hole this week I'll try not to go as deep as I went, but I told JD I was watching some live stuff and looking at Rob Baker's set up. [46:05] Paul Ling Hua, he always plays that black Les Paul, but Rob Baker plays that Strat, which I fucking love. And he's got something called Lace Sensors pickups in it, which not to get too technical for the listeners. They were apparently these were like standard issue Fender pickups from 90 from 85 to like 96 and then they just became too expensive. But they're really cool. The only shitty part is they look horrible on a guitar. They don't look it doesn't make it look like a Strat anyway. But he also plays a Paul Reed Smith, which I absolutely hate those guitars because, and JD I told you this, they're the Carlos Santana guitar and when they first became like available to the public so to speak or like mainstream people were able to buy them. I remember walking into a guitar center in the 90s and seeing one up on the wall that was like, it was like $19,000 or $20,000 it was like ridiculous and just going, and now can buy a PRS for like $1,800, $2,000, but it just turned me off and I fucking hate it. And if I'm Rob Baker, if I'm Rob, if you're listening, just don't ever play the fucking PRS, man. Get rid of it. Ditch it. Rob Baker's guitar choices and preferences[47:30] The telly's cool, but that strat is where it's at, man. [47:35] He does play Tele, and there's one other one I can't remember, but there's a great website, and I sadly have been on it more times than I can count. Oh, and he plays an SG, and I play an SG too. The website's called Equipboard.com, and it's got, they can pretty much look at any like, musician that's like, you know, quote, unquote, made it, so to speak, and find their rig, and they have the references, like, not just like, they don't just tell you, but they go, this is why we know that this is they're playing and they have a link to like a concert video, or a picture of them pointing out the gear, which is fucking cool. Track 1:[48:24] It's really cool. Yeah. I love, neither of you guys mentioned it, but I love Gord's voice in this song. He's doing a different sort of thing with his voice. It's lower register, softer I suppose, right? Because it is a soft song. But it's down, it's, you know, sorry you can't see my hand, but it's down here, like belly button wise. Uh is really quite quite uh effective on this song i agree with that jd when are you gonna fix your your belly button cam you're gonna get that going next next pod what's that my belly button cam Yeah, that took me a minute to get. Sorry. All right, track number six. Track number 6 is The Bastard. Appreciating the Percussion and Lyrical InsanityTrack 2:[56:45] Wow. This song starts with the they're not bongos, but there's some sort of kind of cool percussion. Track 3:[56:54] They're there. Yeah, it's some kind of yeah, yeah, yeah. Track 2:[56:59] There's a lot. Track 3:[57:00] It's fun. I love when they bring those in. Track 2:[57:02] Yeah, it's really cool. This song lyrically is fucking insane. There's a word in there called crepuscular? Track 1:[57:16] Yeah, what is that? Like, what does that even mean? Track 2:[57:19] Yeah, it means, um, adjective of resembling or relating to twilight. Yeah, I mean, gnarly shit and- Oh, gourd. Track 1:[57:31] Oh, man. Track 3:[57:36] Crepuscular rays, as the sun groomed the plane with crepuscular rays. Track 2:[57:41] There's a line in there about the Purple Italians, like it's just... Track 3:[57:47] Yeah, what is that referencing? I meant to look that up. I meant to look that up more and did not. Track 2:[57:52] Some weird-ass lyrics. I noticed something too. I love the line, the presaging pel-nel. Yeah. Track 3:[58:03] Yeah, the pre-stage pel-nel. Track 1:[58:05] Pre-stage and pel-nel. Track 3:[58:06] Yeah, that was my favorite. Track 2:[58:09] It's um i noticed that in addition to to to um gordon sinclair being so in the fucking zone on this song like a like a like a hypnotized fucking i don't know dude he's just he's a fucking machine on this song song. He, I watched a little bit of the Woodstock, Woodstock live show 99. And in this song, during Grace 2, which is what they opened up with, Gord starts testing out some of these lyrics to this song during Grace 2. Bird's Eye View, right? Track 1:[58:54] He talks about a bird's eye view of a bird's eye view. Yeah, yeah. So cool that you got to see that. Track 2:[59:01] Finished watching the whole thing. Track 1:[59:02] And you recognize it. Track 2:[59:04] Go ahead. Frustration with lack of guitars in "Grace II"Track 1:[59:10] Yeah, I went down to Rabbit Hole the other day and was just watching a whole bunch. I started with that when I texted you guys and was like, yeah, I'm watching it. And for the beginning of Grace II, it's all drums and Gord's voice, which I don't mind, but I want to hear those guitars, you know? And then suddenly it kicks in. Track 3:[59:29] The purple people, the purple Italian people, I just found it was an Italian mass protest movement to call for the resignation of a prime minister, one of their prime ministers. I feel like, I don't know, there must have been an earlier historical use of this because this is actually from 2009. So yeah, I'm curious. Well, I forgot to tell you guys that Gord is actually reference a mystic he could see in the future yes I wouldn't be surprised yes guys if there's any more sorry there's any more insight on the purple people somebody somebody let us know Tim at getting hit So I got an email. Mention of an email received regarding the purple peopleTrack 1:[1:00:19] Yeah. Got to get our $80 worth. Track 3:[1:00:25] I loved the pre-staging Pell-Mel. There's been a handful. I wish I would have started a list of the gourdisms that would be so fun to learn and reference, because that was so good. When I first heard him sing that, it was like, you know. Track 1:[1:00:42] What is pell-mell? Track 3:[1:00:44] Well, it just means like, it just means like absurd craziness or warning, like presaging means like warning together. Well, pell-mell means confusion or disorder or like a confused haste. So it's, presaging is, you know, the warning of a disorderly moment or the warning of something about to go down. That's kind of what I took. Track 1:[1:01:16] That's dire, I love it. Track 3:[1:01:19] Pre-saging, yeah, it's good. I mean, it's a loaded three words, basically. I think Pete hit on a lot of it, but this song to me kind of got us back in the car and down the road again. It was like driving, rocking, feeling, which I totally dug. The reference of all of this auger as well, you know, auger meaning like a fucking coring, drilling, coring into something and it's just this good rocking song. Track 1:[1:01:55] It's different though. Auger spelled one way is coring, but there's another, like to auger is to portend a good or bad outcome. Track 3:[1:02:08] Okay. Track 1:[1:02:11] So it's like, to pretend. Yeah. And I believe that's what it, like, it's all this auger's well, like, but, right, like, auger a well could mean digging a hole. But auger's well means pretending to, portending to good things are going to happen. Track 3:[1:02:37] Okay, okay. I just thought there were some beautiful lyrics in here. Also, I mean, all this augurs well or yeah, it's the The stanza never mind that pool in the mountains victory came and went on winged elephants I saw you all this augurs. Well, like you know, what? What is what is going on there? But it I thought it was likely this loaded very story specific Specific song without researching it, you know, I heard the lyrics Billy Sunday shout in Philadelphia for Christ Like who really is this song about did you look up Billy Sunday? Track 1:[1:03:15] Yeah. Track 3:[1:03:16] Yeah. I loved I loved reading about that This is like one of those that is one of those songs easy, right? Yeah, you barely you barely touch into on the research side and Realize that you know Billy Sunday was baseball player. Track 1:[1:03:33] I want to say a pitcher from like 1891. Track 3:[1:03:36] Yeah, he was this total this this I guess amazing pitcher And he played for chicago and boston and philly and which During those times you played for a team like your whole career, you know, you stayed in the city You you you became a presence with the team and the community and all that stuff if you did but this this this fellow William Ashley or Billy Sunday Sunday was his family name he he was like a total drunk ladies man and he moved from team to team to team and I think this from what I read the cops and the ladies got to know him really well And then after playing in Philly, he was witnessed to on the street and ultimately became a traveling preacher. [1:04:32] He went from standout pitcher to traveling preacher. And while he was preaching, teams even were soliciting him to come back and pitch. And during those days, if you made like 400 bucks a month playing professional baseball, that was like, a great salary. Yeah, I'm sure. And at one point, I read the Pittsburgh Pirates offered him $2,000 a month, and he still declined, and he still continued to be a traveling preacher. And his kind of schtick was talking about like the sex and alcohol lifestyle, from what I gathered, a lot about alcohol. And it was so much that when towns heard he was coming, they would just close up the bars until he went out. Literally, because he was so like, you know, he was his own prohibitionist. So it's all the personality. Track 2:[1:05:37] Yeah Thinking of that was the runner then I Don't know Like losses lay or some Forrest Gump. Track 1:[1:05:45] No. Track 2:[1:05:45] No, this is a reference from the hip Oh Terry Fox Harry Fox. Track 1:[1:05:50] Very fine. Yeah no he's a guy that ran across canada or something and he got close but he died he ran a marathon everyday he ran a marathon everyday on one leg yeah. Oh okay yeah cuz he and he was he was like. He was twenty one years old and he got cancer they removed his leg and he decided he was gonna run across canada and he started on the east coast he passed away thunder bay so he passed away about one third of the way through. Track 3:[1:06:21] Wow. Track 1:[1:06:22] Oh, it's fucking still, man. That's crazy. But it's like, every day his stump was like, like, euchred because he was wearing one of the, like, now, probably, somebody could do it on one of those, like, one of those spring legs, you know? Track 3:[1:06:37] Yeah, yeah. Track 1:[1:06:38] Yeah, but back in the day, he had, like, just an old school prosthetic leg, and it was crazy. Yeah. Track 3:[1:06:45] Pete, on this one, did you feel like, Did you ever get an inkling like, uh, perhaps this one was music first lyric second, or did you pick up at all on like the kind of background guitar riffing that was kind of over here? And yeah, it was like, I don't know, it sounded a little after thought ish, that guitar riffing, just kind of carrying you through it all worked. But this one, this one, I think compositionally. You know, song, story, Billy Sunday reference aside, which is amazing to dive into and learn about. I mean, I almost want to paint Billy Sunday or something with like on the pulpit with a baseball bat. That's cool. A fifth of whiskey in the other hand or something. But anyways, I felt like compositionally, the song writing-wise fits in the album. It just It just kind of fits in there, but also like, eh. Track 1:[1:07:46] You weren't big on it. Track 3:[1:07:49] No, it didn't grab me. It was like, OK, let's get back in the car. We're back on the road. Let's get through the song. It's rocking. Yeah, let's see what's next. Track 2:[1:07:56] I think at first it was like that, but then the song really like, because instrumentally, it's so fucking rich. Yeah, but like Gord, dude, again, Gord could match, pick the most complex composition that any composers have ever written. And I'm sure there is some fucking book that Gord Downie wrote lyrics in, somewhere floating around or shoved in his fucking basement, that lyrics. Track 3:[1:08:29] I would hope there's like, yeah, like 200. Track 2:[1:08:32] Yeah, he could fit to that. I mean, they probably just, yeah. So I feel you. I feel you. I feel you. Yeah. Track 1:[1:08:40] So let's move into track number seven, The Completist. Track 2:[1:08:44] I don't have a ton to say about this. I would say I really love this song. Again, this is a fade in from the previous track. Gord Sinclair again. fucking standout performance on this song. The percussive chops of the band at this point in the record. I mean, there are other songs that come up that you're just like, what the fuck? But they're not a bar band anymore. I mean, I know they still, but I still think like, I don't know if it was Phantom Power before, a record or two before, you see that kind of bar band thing still rearing its head a little bit, Like, this is just so far from that. These guys are fucking, they've really become superb musicians from the EP to now. Like, they've honed their fucking craft. And then the... Musicians' dedication to improvementTrack 1:[1:09:51] Road tested. Track 2:[1:09:52] Yeah, I mean, it's the road, it's the recording, it's the composition. But it's clear that like, every single musician in this band is like, I want to become better at my instrument. And I'm going to do this. It wasn't just like they just played a bunch, kept doing it, like, they clearly actively tried to become better musicians, as they were continuing. Like, I would put that to any of these fucking guys, if they're standing in front of me, and tell me, like, tell me I'm lying. Like, tell me I'm full of shit. And they would say no. Like, Whether it's, I mean, fucking Kirk Hammett for fuck's sake was taking lessons from Steve Vai when he was already in Metallica. Like, what does that tell you? You know, like, musicians want to become better and they, these guys clearly. The only thing I was gonna say was the woman singing, I thought it was Kate Fenner from before, but it's not, right? Track 1:[1:10:52] I don't know, I thought it was Kate Fenner. Track 2:[1:10:54] Apparently it's, um, Julie. Do I run Dorian, Julie Dorian, Dorian. Track 1:[1:11:02] Oh, Julie Dorian. Track 2:[1:11:03] Okay. Track 1:[1:11:03] Yeah, yeah, yeah. That makes sense. Track 2:[1:11:05] But I, and this is just, you know, I want to say this earlier, Tim, but I want to say that I did do a little research on Kate Fenner and her, um, her label that she's signed to is called UFO music. So that's awesome. Track 1:[1:11:19] Oh, you must love that. Track 2:[1:11:20] I do. Track 3:[1:11:22] You just stole my thunder for Toronto 4. We'll get there. Track 2:[1:11:28] I thought the lyrics in the song were beautiful. It was fucking, the beautiful fucking lyrics. Amazingly beautiful. Track 1:[1:11:35] Yeah. Yeah. Track 3:[1:11:37] Well, I'll have to look into Julie Dorian. I had not found her. And we'll get to it, but we haven't talked much about Kate Fenner, nor who we mentioned earlier. Chris Brown. The fellow on keys, Chris Brown. Yeah, yeah, yeah. For me, this song to complete us, I felt like it was like at first it was kind of, OK, we're already back to a slowdown. Like, it felt a little bit of a chug placement-wise in the album, it's a beautiful song. You know, I just didn't, it kind of left me hanging a little bit. Like, it didn't grab me and shake me around or rattle me around or anything like that. It felt like it could have been an ender. Like, it felt like, is this the end of the album? I mean, this could be the end of an album, so that's good. Track 1:[1:12:29] Well, it's the end of side one, if you're thinking. Oh, maybe. LPs. Track 3:[1:12:36] Yeah, yeah, okay, okay. Track 1:[1:12:37] And that would make sense with our next song too, Freak Turbulence, opening side two with a banger, right? Track 3:[1:12:44] Yeah, big time. I mean, this is like we're alive again. We're back in the driver's seat or the passenger's seat. Like we have this backup singing again. I think this was Kate Fenner at this time. I'm not sure. Between the two. I don't know enough of Julie's voice to distinguish between the two. Track 1:[1:13:06] There are definitely people out there that will tell us for sure. Track 3:[1:13:10] Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, I'm gonna look it up because I think I got Kate Fenner down. I mean, yes, yeah, yeah. So back to the song though, there's a comedy factor here, am I wrong? Like, this is so much about Gord being afraid to fly or not liking flying or, you know? Yeah, yeah, yeah, there's all this talk about. I don't know, it feels lighter and more fun than usual. Track 1:[1:13:39] Like, did the captain just say this? Like, did the captain just say, like? Track 3:[1:13:45] Well, we'll land in less than 10 minutes. Or he says, or unless. Did he say unless or less? Yeah, he's afraid. You know, I think this is the song that guys. Were had to fly back to Canada from the US because originally this album Was to be recorded on a moving locomotive train. Track 1:[1:14:11] They talked about doing that. Yes I don't know how that would have ever happened. Track 3:[1:14:15] No shit. What a fucking cool idea I mean imagine that Pete moving locomotive with all the sounds and shakes and rattles I mean maybe maybe for a song but a whole album yeah with some serious that was some serious weed smoking yeah I'm up with that idea you know we should do guys we should fly back down to Memphis take the train take the train to LA and record the home anyways this this is a this was kind of a fun song it was a little more jovial I dug it there's a There's a weird, PeepeePie caught this, there's some weird guitar feedback, like the last 10 seconds or so, which made the song feel kind of ominous, or maybe the Freak Turbulence was like the plane going down, I don't know. It was funny in that regard, it was like a total head-scratcher, but this one I kind of dug. Track 2:[1:15:15] Oh, I dug this one, man, there's a line in there that really stuck with me, it's Satan Holding back hands, our nose and our chin. Track 3:[1:15:22] Yeah, yeah. Track 2:[1:15:24] I love that. There's a really, I think, the mix, there was a lot of moments where I wrote down, this is probably the first time I've said it, but it's written on a ton of songs, the mix on this song, how they mix this song with the instruments, like the levels of all the instruments, it's just so, it really, you know, it makes the fucking song. It makes this song so fucking cool the vocals build, Yeah, I really, you know, I'll rather than to, I'll save my, you know, I'll yield my time only because I have some, some hefty shit to say about some stuff coming up. But I, this song made me run, like when this song came on and I was going on some runs, I definitely put it into a higher gear with this song. I loved it. I loved it. Yeah. Track 3:[1:16:20] Yeah. Yeah. Especially after the completed, you know, transitioning into this one. It's like, yes, OK, here we go again. This is definitely the if it's side two, it definitely is the the side one. Get us going again. "Sharks" - a monotonous but intriguing song[1:16:36] Sharks, can I go? Sharks. Yeah. This one kind of lazes along for me. It's got a few interesting bridges, but it's kind of monotonous, but not not. I'm not saying that in a negative way. It's almost like, it's almost got this head down, shoegazy kind of feel, you know? Then at the three minute mark, there's this like heavy tom kind of bass kind of transition in there. It's the bass guitar is like kind of all over the neck for just a brief second, but you know, it's one of, the, this song is, it has what I enjoyed because they they're starting to do this more because they're all just accelerating as musicians is that it has like well over a minute of music the last portion of it is just like great music carrying you through rather than singing until like the last seconds or giving like seven seconds at the end or what have you so it's. [1:17:42] It was kind of a fun song in that way. It just felt different than the rest, but also worked, you know, positively. Track 2:[1:17:52] I love, this is another fade in from the previous track, which I love, that they're doing that, making it very concept-y. I love the line in there about the Mariana's Trench. That's just fucking cool. It's such a, it's always been a fascination of mine, probably since I saw fucking, what was the name of that movie? Was that Harris? I don't know. I thought it was a James Cameron movie for Christ's sake, it was huge. The Abyss. The Abyss. Oh, The Abyss. The Abyss was in Maria's Trench. Track 1:[1:18:29] Right, right, right, right. Track 2:[1:18:32] But yeah, I mean, the big standout for me here is Rob Baker's guitar is just fucking insanity. He does these really cool arpeggios in the song. And the coolest thing for me was, I was like, what's that fucking effect on this guitar? And I was like, I wrote this down early on, I was like, he's got a, like a delay on the guitar, but not a delay. So it's going bum, bum, bum, bum, bum. It's so, the delay time is so small that you can't really hear it like a repetitive delay. It's just, when you put it down almost to zero, it just has this cool, and then I look on no shit by the time I found that website and he's got a Line 6 DL4 delay pedal that no doubt he was using on this fucking song. It just made me feel cool because I was like, my ears still work after all these years. But I fucking love it. If I didn't, I didn't think there was a song that could rival Tiger the Lion and I still don't think it beats it but it's pretty up there and that's fucking Toronto 4. An analysis of the opening guitar arpeggiosTrack 1:[1:26:42] Talk to me. Talk to me. Track 2:[1:26:44] I mean, the way it opens with the, like, the record static. Yep. Again, Rob Baker's doing these weird arpeggios, like he, like, it's kind of like a falling guitar, like he goes from a, like a, it's a D chord or whatever the hell, the octave, than the chord, then the seventh, then the diminished. Makes it feel really sad. It's just, or like, kind of sad and mysterious, and it's floating. It's like all the echo-y shit that there's, I don't know if it's Kate Fenner on this. It is. It is? Okay. Track 3:[1:27:26] Yeah. Track 2:[1:27:27] Yeah. The way that the, I don't know if it's like he's using mallets or what, but Johnny Fay is like coming in with the cymbals with these really soft mallets that like kind of give it like a gong sound to make it really super dramatic but the songs it's fucking awesome I mean I was like what it was weird because this was a song that early on I would get through the first nine tracks because I was doing like shorter runs when I would take it out and I didn't get to like Toronto for and then the first time I heard it I was like what in the fuck the surf tone on guitar is just... It's a cool jam dude. It's cool as fuck. A lot of Pink Floyd, I feel, influence on there. Track 3:[1:28:18] I agree with all that. I felt like the percussions on this, the drums on this one, had sort of this metronome, just more of a... I don't know. Track 2:[1:28:28] You do the panning on the left to right? Track 3:[1:28:31] Yeah, like the pace of the percussion really, to me, held the song like all the way through and was perfect. I mean, I often hone in on drum stuff like you do guitar and I felt like that was just, I don't know, this song is, it starts slow, it's emotional, it kind of feels like apologetic you know also feels like i don't know familiar maybe it's like the mention of Vesuvius as a metaphor for like family and stresses and breakups and i don't know the The song was just, it's pretty jam packed. I didn't. Look big into the background on lyrics or story or any of that, you know, I just questioned, which I said to JD like a week ago, I was like, why the hell Toronto four? Are there three other Toronto songs? Or what is what is that about? Track 1:[1:29:29] So if anybody knows, my only guess is, like my, as far as just guesswork, is might be, it might have been the fourth run, you know, it might have been the fourth take, like it's Sometimes you use the studio parlance to come up with the title of a song that you can't quite name. Track 3:[1:29:49] Yeah. Track 1:[1:29:50] Well, this is a great, it's a great song, and you're right, you nailed it on the head when you talk about family. Yeah, yeah. It's definitely familial. It's, you know, it's about the matriarch of his family, his grandmother, holding things up. And that what are the first the first lyrics are? Absolutely. They slay me and I can't recall them at the moment. Track 3:[1:30:17] You know, you were the rock plug for us all. Did you know you were the conduit of Vesuvius? You were far more unifying than, you know, I'm not a judge of suitable, but you almost had it all. I mean, if that's about his grandma being the what a tribute, the rock plug for their family. I mean rock plug is definitely a volcanic reference of you know a rock holding the mountain together before the magma just blows it apart so it's right fucking cool pretty pretty yeah I mean it's this this one maybe has the simplest lyrics that we've seen in a while. [1:30:59] It's it's a beautiful song. So Kate Fenner on this one just to touch on her because I Think we've heard her before although. I only found that she To recorded and toured for this album, but man, she's she's got this How do you describe her voice? I think it's just gorgeous. I think it's yeah, it's It's just, it's, it's, it's lovely. I, she, she, somebody described her as less, a lusty alternative to a Joni Mitchell ish sound. Like all of that is, is true. So she's got her own solo stuff. She's got, as Pete mentioned, UFO Records is her label. She's got this new album out that I touched on briefly over the weekend. It's it's pretty she's got a beautiful voice like if she ever tours and we get a chance to just Go and any of us hear her perform. I'm sure it would be worth it. She's got a dreamy voice So yeah, great great addition to me, too I don't know if you saw this tour JD, but what she did she yeah, do you recall her on stage or yeah? Track 1:[1:32:09] Because it was it was strange because both Chris Brown and her were on stage with them the whole time and that was It was just it was sort of a strange look because up until that point It had been the five of the month's age. Track 3:[1:32:20] Mm-hmm. Track 1:[1:32:20] That was it. And so this you know, it changed the dynamic for sure and I'll be the first to tell you that when this record dropped I Liked it But I didn't love it. But now 20 years later. Yeah, I fucking love this record Yeah, I can listen to this record at any time like yeah, yeah top to bottom. Okay, okay, Now let's go toward the bottom and talk about Wild Mountain Honey, dude. Track 3:[1:32:52] I love this one. So I'm taking I'm taking on this one. Mr Okay, you can you can fill in do it Yeah, like this this to me I heard Pink Floyd I heard Jerry Garcia of guitar effects Like I I heard like fish. I don't know like this song to me. They even the the title is is different, like this one was just a little bit different there. You know, it's the drums are soft, but they can sound kind of angry. This is one of the songs on the album, you know, the first time listening it through. Or I thought, OK, I need to find this one live and check it out because I'm sure it gets played harder and louder, maybe faster. [1:33:43] There's just really good chord changing and bridges and guitar riffs and it feels a little bit patched or contrived at the end you know I was hoping for like a big finish the first time I heard this one because it really grabbed me it made it just this to me was like hip fans who have seen the band play live a a bunch. Probably love this one live. You know, this one just, it hit some marks for me with going, with going after, like, followers of other bands who I knew probably in the same summer saw Grateful Dead play it or saw Phish play and saw the Tragically Hit play. Like a lot of, you know, A lot of times when I experience bands playing live over the course of a summer, it kind of, you know, dictates that summer. Like, you think back to that summer and you're like, oh, that's when I went to X Festival or that's when I saw 8Bandplay a couple times. The Papa Roach show. Yeah, like that's, yeah, definitely the Papa Roach show. But no, this one was, This kind of centered me back into the seat of the Tragically Hip. I really dug it. I ended up listening to it a handful of times by itself. Track 1:[1:35:08] Oh wow! Cool. Track 3:[1:35:11] Probably not a single though, right? Track 1:[1:35:13] Not a single, nope. Track 3:[1:35:14] Yeah, every once in a while they have a song that's not a single that's a little bit off character that I dig and this is one of those. Rhythms and Unique Drum Hits in "Wild Mountain Honey"Track 2:[1:35:23] I thought that I mean the song it's funny ironically it starts out like wild mountain honey it begins like the name does Soft like wild mountain honey, and it creeps up on you like a whiskey, and it fucking destroys. Yeah, yeah, yeah Yeah, I think It's funny because I remember looking for the lyrics online and realized there's a Steve Miller song called why I'm not many as well But when I saw the title of this, I thought of the Peach Boys song, Wild Honey, which neither of those examples are even close to this song. But what I got from it was, I fucking love the rhythms in this fucking, the drums in the rhythms. The drum hits in this fucking song are so cool and they're so unique and they don't sound like another band. Like there's some songs that, like I mentioned, some Wilco stuff earlier, there's other songs from other hip records where it's like they're doing a drum hit or a drum fill and you're like, yeah, that's the same drum fill that this band did on this song and that's been, this is completely fucking different. And it's so fucking cool. So unique, the rhythms in the song. [1:36:43] There's a weird keyboard or flute effect in the background going down, it was really faint and hard to pick up. I'm pretty sure it was a keyboard, but it could have been some sort of setting, but I love the line, I don't want to put another thought in my head, I just thought that was so fucking cool towards the end. And then the song, the solo starts before, but the part at about 3 minutes 30 seconds of the guitar soloer. Just, I don't know, dude. I hope I run into him. Track 3:[1:37:18] That carries it to the end, right? Track 2:[1:37:22] It does. Yeah. I want to run into Rob Baker at a 7-Eleven or something. Him buying a Slurpee and me already up front and being like, hey, man, let me get this guy's Slurpee and I'll pay for it or something. Just be like, alright, man. Track 1:[1:37:41] What a gentleman you are. Track 2:[1:37:42] I want to be that guy. It's weir

TranscriptTrack 1:[0:00] Welcome to getting hip to the hip. I'm JD. I'm here as always with Pete and. [0:06] Tim How are you fellas doing this fine day? Track 3:[0:10] Doing great doing great Just getting it going and excited to be here and see a couple of my favorite dudes over the interwebs. Track 2:[0:19] I Am doing supercalifragilisticexpialidocious to fucking discuss this fucking record Oh, wow. Track 3:[0:27] Oh, boy. Track 2:[0:28] Oh, boy. Track 3:[0:29] So... Fasten your seatbelts, folks. Track 1:[0:31] Fasten your seatbelts, folks. Track 2:[0:32] What does that mean? Spoons, plural. Spoons full of sugar. Not just fucking... Not just one. Track 1:[0:39] The Disney references are just rolling out. Track 3:[0:41] Jeez. Track 1:[0:44] Well, we're here today to talk about the 2000 release, June 2000, the seventh studio record by seminal Canadian rock band The Tragically Hip. Music at work. Before we go into our vaunted segment of song by song, let's just get a general sense of what you guys thought of this record. Where you listened to it, what you were exposed to, how it formed over time. What do you think there, Pete? Track 2:[1:21] I'll be brief, because I want to really dive into the songs, too, but I will say, I listened to this record at work. Well, I was at my computer. Come on, Tim, did you want that one? Were you waiting to use that one? Track 3:[1:42] No, it was your turn. It was your turn. A lot of listeners right now are like, oh my god, we're out of here. Track 2:[1:52] Listen to it in the car. The sound system in the car made it really pop. But I will say, probably the best place to listen to it was on runs. It was just... I love the record. I really, really enjoyed this record profusely. So I'll say that. I'll leave it there. All right. Track 1:[2:21] Mr. Leiden. Track 3:[2:22] Yeah, so I listened to this. I had a bunch of headphone-based physical therapy the past week, and I pretty much had it on for all of that, which was very much focused movement and definitely could consider audio. And it was it was pretty good. It took me back to, I think, mostly to Live Between Us, like if we're gonna go apples to apples or apples and oranges throughout their discography thus far, for many reasons. And there's some songs on here I really like a lot. There's a couple that I thought were pretty different, like definitely a step out than past albums. And yeah, at one point I thought this might be my favorite so far in our work to get to this point. I thought this might be one of my favorite albums so far, but I'm still questioning it. I'm still thinking that there might be another one out there in the future that I just I Give you know nine point five two or whatever. Album Rating and Discussion on Critics' OpinionsTrack 1:[3:35] It might be Gotcha Yeah, this was rated relatively low by all music and what? Track 3:[3:43] Big fucking surprise They're like the professor that doesn't give a is you know, yeah, yeah negative five out of five I I have a little bit of a vibe with that, but I understand sometimes there's a great piece of work out there that still doesn't get the accolades it deserves, and that happens so often. Track 1:[4:06] Yeah. Well, shall we get into it? Track 3:[4:10] Yeah. Track 2:[4:12] What did they give it, by the way, J.D.? I'm curious. Track 1:[4:14] Three out of five. Track 3:[4:15] Three, right? Three out of five. So just some quick research on the title that I found of the album, Music at Work. So from what I read, it's poking fun at a rock station in Canada, 100.5 FM. Yeah. E-Zed Rock or Easy Rock, whichever. Track 4:[4:38] You went with Zed first. You're so Canadian. Oh my God. So Canadian. Track 3:[4:45] Music at Work was their tagline, you know. It was like, imagine this kind of 80s looking logo in essence like a corporatized Van Halen Firebird Camaro looking Easy Rock 100.5 FM and underneath at music at work. That makes sense. But I thought maybe, yeah, I thought maybe the hip tagging, you know, taking this tagline was perhaps their, I guess, you know, maybe even, I think it was their stab at back at clear channel. I thought like Like, these guys, yeah, yeah, yeah, I thought these guys are still talking. Track 2:[5:36] Was that a Clear Channel station? Track 3:[5:38] Rock and roll. Track 2:[5:39] I'm sure they were. Track 3:[5:40] Dude. Track 1:[5:41] It's a heavy format. Track 3:[5:42] I didn't look it up, but if you look at everything about it, I'm sure it is. Track 2:[5:48] And at that time, dude, nowadays it's like, it's not even a competition. Like Clear Channel owns the Airwaves, but I remember at that time it was like, you were We were starting to realize that every station was a clear channel station. Track 1:[6:02] Yeah. Yeah. Track 3:[6:04] Yeah. So, that was kind of some brief history on the album title. The first song, you know, title track, album name. The First Single from the RecordTrack 1:[6:40] You I think it's a, little bit of a, a That chives. Yeah, it was the first single from the record too. So okay. Yeah, it dropped a couple weeks before the record came out. Track 2:[7:33] Well, not to correct Tim, but I'm going to do it. Do it. It is not the title track. Ah, yes. The name of the track is actually my music at work. Yeah, interesting. And I didn't... No, no, no. Track 3:[7:54] I was really close, man. Track 2:[7:56] You were close, too. Track 3:[7:58] You know, okay. The influence of the... The Groove and Tightness of the New RecordTrack 2:[8:07] I mean, if I picture myself as I have now, listen, have listened to the previous hip records, anticipating this new record coming out, hearing this first track on this new record and just like putting it on volume up, start my car, light my cigarette, open my Red Bull, whatever the fuck I was doing in the year 2000. And just fucking wow. I mean, they must have just been like, fuck yes. I mean, this song, it was, I wrote this down. This is one of the things I wrote down in the notes. The song was born in the pocket. Like when you talk about when you're in the pocket, musically, I think we all know what that means. I'm sure most of the listeners know what it means. But it's just, it's in the pocket. It's just the groove, the rhythm, the fucking instruments, everything is just fucking tight and it fits, gourd sounds fucking great. It's a great build after the La La La with the soft guitar. Oh God, I've got to eventually get there. Track 3:[9:29] I'll just quickly add in there the La La La. Track 2:[9:30] Johnny Cain? Track 3:[9:31] Okay, go, go, go. Track 2:[9:32] Go ahead. No, no. You go ahead. Track 3:[9:35] I was going to fill in for you. The La La La part for this one, I mean that was new. We haven't had La La La's yet in soft. No, not really. Right. Track 2:[9:42] No, no, yeah But but Johnny Johnny Faye. Yeah drummer. Yeah Really just fucking builds it into where the song you know starts to go at that point and then there's a There's a Lord of the Rings reference in there. I think I feel like it is I took it as what cuz he says middle of the earth. Ah Which I'm always My record store that I grew up going to in down in California, now out of business, was called Middle Earth. And it was a fucking great record store. This is the type of record store where dollars to fucking donuts, man. If you were there in the 90s, they were like, if you went up to the front and asked this guy Larry for a recommendation, he would have fucking slipped you a hip record. Hands down. I was just too scared to fucking go up to Larry cause he was cool. Larry had a picture of David Bowie where David Bowie was smiling, not Larry. Track 1:[10:47] Wow. Track 2:[10:48] Like that goes to show you how cool fucking Larry was. Track 3:[10:51] You know what? I can't tell you how many. Stories I've heard about like interviews with artists who had that record store They went to growing up and how walking up to the clerk whoever was working was like the most intimidating thing Like you like you like so many artists would walk I've read it about it so many times Walking a record store with like kind of tail between your legs and you're afraid to purchase what you've picked For being ridiculed or anything, right? It's just it was like the most I mean think about it back You know in the 80s or 70s or 90s like going to Tower Records or wherever you go and grabbing that Item and walking up to this like hipper than thou person Clerk and trying to make over just yeah Yeah, this was before that it was common where people had like, you know Sleeves of tattoos and like ear and nose piercings like you saw somebody up there at the front with a fucking a bar through the nose a two sleeves of tattoos, and green hair. Track 2:[11:56] Everybody's got fucking green hair nowadays, right? And you're just like. Track 1:[12:00] Makes me sick. Track 2:[12:01] No, but you know what I'm saying? Like, you know, my nephew's got green hair for crying out loud. But like, I don't give a shit, you know, I'm telling my nephew what I'm listening to, but if, you know, back in the 90s, I walked up to the counter and saw somebody like that, that I was like dude I am not bringing up anything that's on the radio right yeah that's so cool that's so cool that you had this this tragically hip frame of reference from back in the record store days I mean I completely don't have that I had a bumper sticker in college you know of my apartment complex neighbor so. The Second Song: Messy and IncoherentTrack 3:[19:00] Yeah. Track 2:[19:00] Do you want to? I don't know. I mean, I'm ready to fucking blow up in there. You know what I'm saying? Okay. The fucking the second song. I mean, it's hard to top this second song. I mean, it is when I first heard it. I loved how it faded in from the first track. And then he just starts saying this is what the fuck is Tiger the Lion? Track 1:[19:30] I don't. Track 2:[19:30] I'm just saying the first time I heard it, right. And I did my research on it, which I kind of regret. I gotta stop looking at lyrics. Once I stopped looking at lyrics, these songs really open up for me. Track 1:[19:41] You can't stop though. It's gorg, right? Like, you know? Track 2:[19:45] No, but he eventually started listening to them and internalizing them, which is better for me than reading them. Either way, this fucking song, it just opens up so messy and incoherent and I'm like, what the fuck? I mean, again, putting myself in the position of a hit fan when they hear this for the first time. They're like, is this gorgeous going off on his fucking, you know, he wrote some crazy poetry and he's just, you know, free-forming it right now. What's he doing? You know, but the The instrumentation on it, it's so well thought out. Track 4:[20:24] Right? It's... Track 2:[20:26] I love how, because for me as a musician, my writing style is pretty incoherent. A lot of people say, like, lyrics wise, my shit doesn't make sense, which is, you know, it's not like I'm going for it, but it's just, it is what it is. But the John Cage quote? Track 3:[20:45] Yeah. Track 2:[20:46] Oh, fuck. I mean, I'm a huge John Cage, but just all about who that guy was as an individual who brought his brain to art and music. There's a melodic drop down, the purpose is not unique. I just, I don't know, dude, I did a little bit of research on the meaning of the song about it being like a reference to fighter pilots. Did you get that too, Tim? Track 3:[21:21] Yep, yep, yep. Big time. There's been so many World War II references that I just, you know, I instantly went to that, which I have a emotional family connection to World War II, so that hits heavy for me. Track 2:[21:36] Two-way radio, yeah. But, uh, this, line... JD, I thought of you when I read this. But not to get order from chaos. Tell you how to create simply wait to your life like, like, there's, there, there is no order. Yeah, there's no other shoe that were, you know, and I don't know, dude, this fucking song is, I still can't fucking and unwrap it and make sense of it. It's just a fucking banger. Yeah. What a song. Living in the Music: Appreciating Art without Analyzing LyricsTrack 3:[22:15] I mean, Pete, as a, maybe you can clarify a little bit for me, as a songwriter, you, when this one came on and you listened through it and you say that you, sometimes you don't want to research lyrics just so you can live in it in your head as much as possible, right? Is that kind of your sentiment? Right? Track 2:[22:34] I mean, I think, I think the lyrics, Because I think that what you, for me, this is me personally, what I tend to do is, is rather than physically listen to the song, which is what the medium is meant to do for listening, I'm reading what I'm listening to. And so it starts to, I start to make judgment upon what I'm listening to based on what I'm reading. Which is never like there's so many weird fucking lyrics in this fucking record And I'm sure we can talk about it till the cows come home Yeah But it did me it did more damage for me in the beginning because it was like I'm not fucking getting this I'm not getting this and then I just was like, okay I put the lyrics down and then I just started to listen to it incessantly. Okay, this shit's fucking making sense. Okay. Got it and then not to Not to bury the lead, but I mean if you don't get the fucking Comfortably Numb, Rob Baker literally Channeling the fucking David Gilmour in this fucking song. I mean What do you I mean, what are we doing here? There's one drop where it doesn't it doesn't go down to the next chord that you just feel like it's like going to country, but it doesn't go there and it's just... [24:01] Yeah, his guitar tone, everything about it. He's using the Strat on this. [24:06] Fucking it's great song. Sorry. Yeah. Amazing song. Track 3:[24:10] For me to go from music at work to this was like, whoa, this is, you know, if this is second gear for taking off in the car, and it's like, what did our car just change into? Because the song is, Because the song is its own beast. Man, me and my dad jokes, dad puns, tiger, the lion. So I mean, this is the longest song on the album. It's 5 and 1 1⁄2 minutes. And I love songs that can hit 5, 6, 7 minute mark, and you don't even know they're that long. Track 1:[24:47] Yeah. Track 3:[24:48] Like sometimes you hear a song, and you're like, god damn, These guys just wanted this to be the longest song ever, and they succeeded. But this one, it's very, no, it doesn't feel that long. And I think, Pete, you touched on most of it. But the themes, I guess I should say, I don't read the lyrics or look into the lyrics until I've listened to one of these albums in great length or many times. So I try not to pay attention to the lyrics. If I'm listening to it in the car and I'm at a stop for too long, then I can actually hit the whatever on Spotify to make the lyrics pop up. I'll check it out for a minute. But I try to live in my head for as long as possible, I think, kind of like you, Pete, to just get deep into the song. [25:44] The John Cage references. I mean, there's so much in this song in both that theme and kind of World War II themes, but the kind of two big takeaways for me were this song is about challenging the listener and society and anyone to appreciate, like, nature, art in life, or just art, or like literature or whatever it might be. And if you live your life without recognizing any art form, then you're like a fucking robot, you know? That's kind of, that's what the song was about to me in that regard, the John Cage regard and all of that. The his radio goes silent, you know that like I imagined this as like World War two airplane Pilot, you know the his engines destroyed And he's just falling from the sky, you know, like and stops working. This is where my head my engine stops working You have this like last bit of life where you hear the wind the radio stops working You know, you're on your way down. That's kind of where I went with. Track 1:[27:03] Whoa, that's heavy, man. Introduction and Researching Band MembersTrack 3:[27:04] Yeah, that's kind of how it felt to me. Okay, so I did some research around who else is playing with this band. Because we've talked about, at least the past album, I've been talking about, you know, who's that on backup singing blah blah blah blah blah. Right. So with this, I guess I would have talked about this at the beginning, but with this song we have a guy named Chris Brown from Toronto on keys, right? So he toured, He recorded and toured with the band with this album. He came from a band or was in a band called, Bourbon Tabernacle Choir. Yep, you got it. And from the 80s and 90s, which I heard of that, man. Yeah, which I didn't know an ounce about until I kind of did this research. So finally, I was making some headway with this album to hear who else we have contributing, which is an obvious impact to me as a listener to hear kind of extra elements going on. But this song, man, it could be its own album. That's what I thought. Like this song, this song on a 7-inch on one side, like it's hand me that. I'll pay 20 bucks for it. Like let's go. It's fucking that good. Track 1:[28:30] Yeah, I agree. Track 3:[28:32] Lake Fever, the next one. This is where I was like, okay, maybe we're shifting gears into like this perfect love song or forlorn love or is this a song about loss or remembrance or you know what is this what is this going on there's amazing prose within this song like was the brief dude seriously i knew pete was just like i knew his heart was melting for this It was probably driving down, you know, here's Pete, everybody in Spain, in his awesome vehicle. I don't even know what it is, and I don't want to know until I visit him someday, so no spoilers, J.D. But here's Pete in his awesome vehicle driving down some coastal highway in fucking Spain. This is a dude from the LBC, right? And this song comes on, and there's tears coming from Pete's face on this beautiful sunny day. It's like, I, I, you know, I'm, I'm hearing this song during fucking physical therapy. Therapy just gone. [29:42] Is this a wedding song or is it a funeral song or do I want this at my wake or do I play this for Amy on her next anniversary? Like what the fuck is this emotional song going on in place three after my music at work and after Tiger the Lion we have this Lake Fever. It's like what the hell so yeah it was this you know this this is that third gear song where i'm like okay, let's see let's see where this is gonna go what's this about is it oh yeah okay maybe it is about the cholera outbreak in toronto in 1834 oh fuck god damn it okay that's what it's about guess i'm I'm not playing at my anniversary. No, not playing at next April 14th, honey. Track 1:[30:38] But it's more than that because the protagonist is regaling his potential lover with that story. Like the song isn't necessarily about like fever. It's like this couple are walking in the woods about to go, you know, have sex. And he's so nervous that he's trying to like, you know, talk to this girl and he's telling her, well, there was this time in Toronto that there was a sewer back up and cholera got in the way and it went all the way up to Ottawa and near Kingston and it was terrible, many people died and she's just like, hurry, just hurry. Just Coital Fury, you know, like, yeah, that wine, man. Track 2:[31:26] Fuck, it's good. Dude, you know, I tell you, it's it's funny because I think it's just the Canadian. I mean, last week, Tim and I both heard the rush in fireworks for last week's a record but you know I started to hear the first thing I heard and now I like don't hear it at all but the first thing I heard with this song was the percussion feeling very once again very Alanis, right wow but yeah put that all kind of behind it's kind of all in the past dude the glockenspiel which I think they're using and like the keyboard effect over when he says the the word courage is I'm just you're right Tim I'm driving down the fucking coast in the mountainous windy roads of Malaga Spain and just fucking crying with my wind blowing, my air blowing in the wind. Cigarette out the window, the arm just like, Oh, just fucking loving this. [32:42] We're going to get into it a little bit more, because I because there's a there's a couple of songs on this record. And I remember I don't know what record it was, oh, it was, was Troll Dan House that I referred to as the Tragically Hips Xerope. Track 1:[33:01] Yes. Track 3:[33:02] Right, right. Track 2:[33:05] But, do you know what this record is? Track 1:[33:07] Yeah. Track 2:[33:07] And it's funny because this record actually came out before the record I'm going to reference. And I'll tell you why. Track 1:[33:14] All right, hit me. Track 2:[33:15] This is fucking the Tragically Hips Yankee Hotel Foxtrot. All of the fucking instrumentation on it, all the pianos, the echoey pianos, a lot of the guitars. It's so fucking Wilco, man. And so I started thinking to myself, well, you know, what, what the fuck did, what, you know, what do we, well, I'll get into it, I'll get into the next one. Track 1:[33:44] We'll go. Give her. Track 2:[33:46] Yeah, we're going to put it down. So this song, there's a line in there saying the United States of ricochet. Something something happy in way. You know what I'm talking about, JD? Track 1:[34:02] I don't know the lyric offhand though, sorry. Track 2:[34:04] Great fucking line. And I'm getting very like, ashes of American flags like references to because I feel like I feel like Gord was really, um, getting, like, a lot of the shit that he focused on was the, God, the phrase, the term I'm trying to look for, like the plight of Canadians. Okay. Track 3:[34:30] I got it. I got it here if you want me to read it. Track 2:[34:33] Yeah, you want to read it, Tim? Track 3:[34:35] Yeah, it's just United States of Ricochet from the Boardwalk to the Appian Way, which I... From the Boardwalk to the Appian Way, yeah, that's what I'm looking for. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Track 2:[34:42] Diamond Files, Corporate Wraves, you know. So he's, I feel like up until this point, he's made a lot of references to not just the indigenous folks up north, in terms of, you know, what he's talked about, and what I know he's eventually going to talk more about. But I started to think like, God, what other band do I know that did that? And like, that's kind of where Wilco went, you know, they had Uncle Tupelo and then AM, which was their first record. And being there were kind of like a soft watered down version of, of that country vibe of Uncle Tupelo. And then when they hit Yankee Hotel, it was like, Whoa, what the fuck is this? This is not the same band. I remember hearing and I got the same vibe. And so I, anyway, I Googled and started doing a little research, come to find out. So I read Jeff Tweedie's. Memoir, which is a great book, you'll get through it in a day, man. It's called Let's Go So We Can Get Back. And he references them on tour with Tragically Hip during the Another Roadside Attraction tour. Track 1:[36:03] That's right. The third one. That's right. Yeah, yeah. Wilco's Similarities to Other Bands and Songwriting InfluencesTrack 2:[36:07] Yeah. And just this record came out a year before Yankee Hotel. So I don't know what if they were trading demos back and forth or they were playing music together on Tour and but fuck man. I mean so many similarities with this record and that record interest so many Do you feel you might catch my drift here? Track 3:[36:32] But do you feel like? When you hear other bands and are reminded of Wilco do you feel like Wilco has just borrowed so much from other bands or do you feel like I'm not gonna we're not going to turn this into a Wilco podcast by the way or do you feel like Wilco like really do you feel like Wilco just absolutely stand on their own as songwriters because I mean that's there that's like to me songwriting music you know what I mean yeah I know what you mean um it's a good question and I'll answer it as short as possible because I think This is something you could fucking have a garage with a, you know, half ounce and fucking go on forever. Track 2:[37:17] But I think Jeff Tweedy is an amazing songwriter, and he'd probably be the first one to admit that they've taken so much from other people. But I think that that band, especially when they went in, their record, two records after they did Yankee Hotel was a record called Sky Blue Sky. When they really got into that, they were just like... They were at the top of their fucking game. and they they they knew how to um, but it's It's hard to say man. I mean It's a great question tim because I you could say the same for Tragically him who are they both big time? Track 3:[38:05] Yeah, we've had so many references. Track 2:[38:07] I don't think I don't think rob baker would he be the last person to say he wasn't fucking fucking playing the exact notes that Gilmore played on fucking comfortably on that guitar solo or on Tiger the Lion. But it's not like you're saying, oh, you're stealing. It's like, it's an homage. It's also working it into a song that is not that song is, you know, you do it all. I've been writing a tune this week that is a is a indie rock tune adapted from the fucking Opening theme of the one of the Legend of Zelda songs. So cool. And am I stealing from Koji Kondo? Yes but It's in so I look at it more as an inspiration. Track 3:[38:54] Well, I mean they I mean all all artists, you know are inspired from every direction I just I don't I don't want to get into it too deep. Track 1:[39:01] I just went from no Writers I think good songwriters Make it almost Like a magician, you know, like a good songwriter. You don't see the sleight of hand. You don't see the Palming you don't see it like they're absolute pros and they stand on their own But of course you can't help but be affected by what you are exposed to and what you enjoy, you know You can't help it. Track 2:[39:34] Yeah, yeah. Yeah, and JD, you're right when you say that, because there was something that I put down, and I think I sent it to you, but I put this down about a month and a half ago, and there was a little guitar lick I put on there, and it was Nell. I recorded it with a fucking jazzmaster. It was Nell's Climb from fucking Wilco. And I was like, I was so worried that it was so obvious, and I played it for Issa, my wife, And I played it for you and I think I was like was it too much and like no it's just it was just right It was perfect. It was like kind of like a little but to me it was like My ears I literally stole the fucking Notes from him and like I took them and I said those are mine now. Thank you very much You know, but like it's it's not easy to do man. I don't know JD. Track 3:[40:25] Yes. I thought it I think they pulled it was just me JD that Pete Pete called up in the middle of my night and serenaded me with some guitar licks. Damn, I'm not feeling as special now. Track 2:[40:40] You'll get it Tim, you'll get it. Track 3:[40:42] Hey, I thought putting down... Track 1:[40:43] Putting down, yeah. Track 3:[40:45] Yeah, so putting down, I felt like, I mean Pete commented on the, you know, the references and stories of this great continent and what we did to the Indigenous folks that were already here and the land grabs and you know that's hitting hard with this one and I feel like with Gord's themes and songwriting and his connotations of it all, this is that song for the album, I thought it was like big and heavy. [41:22] I didn't really know what it was about my first handful of listens. I couldn't really peg it until I did a little bit deeper diving into it. But you know, it was my first few listens, it was kind of like a car ride sing-along song. I felt, you know, it just felt familiar. It felt hip. I didn't think like, this is the best song on the album, and I thought it held its place on the album for what it was. So that's kind of where it ended with me. Cool. The next one, Stay, on the other hand, I thought, man, this song, it's quiet, it's cute, it's cute. I hadn't had that feeling before. Is it a thank you? You know, the Bureau Chiefs and the Shrugging Spies, I thought this was at first when I first heard this? I thought this is hilarious. Without researching, I thought this was like a thank you or something to the band's road crew, because I heard beer and cheese and shrugging spies, not bureau chiefs. I mean, I was like, I was so incorrect with this song. You were a great crew. You were a great you. You know, what is the storyline here? Is it about going to war and relationships or what? What is going on here? Track 1:[42:48] Maybe a little of everything. Track 3:[42:49] Yeah, maybe, but one, you know, after I did, after the leak, Sit down and kind of research what it's about. Hopefully Pete you have some more music based Comments about it, but one person I need to shout out here. The the handle is The letter Y Salvatore, there was a song meanings.com. [43:15] Reference from 2005 so this this is amazing it said one theory is the song is about Fox Mulder from the X-Files lines like there's no one up above us and with the Bureau Chiefs and the shrugging spies on the X-Files series Mulder is often working against the establishment as a sentiment in this song you've got no business in here brother Mulder is obsessed Pete from I'll go with UFO so lines like you see a light and then another this this song maybe it's about UFOs maybe it's about aliens I don't know this this was like this was a total head-scratcher for me not to say that I didn't like it but it was like what is this song about it wasn't beer and cheese I don't know it's not it's funny that you say that because one of the lines already is this song makes me want to sit in a pub and drink beer with my buddy. I didn't say eat cheese, but like, that's the vibe I got. Appreciating the musicianship on this recordTrack 2:[44:21] I mean, it's, um, there's, there's, okay. I could say a lot. I really liked this song a lot. I loved it. It. The riffing that Gore does with the vocals. I think there's a bridge part of all things being balanced where John Fahy's drums... I feel like every musician on this record, on this record, really shines. Like everybody shines. Gord Sinclair, I feel like, has always been really top-notch. That guy is fucking flawless. He's so underrated. Extremely underrated. Uh, when it comes to, you know, I, I just because I'm, you know, playing wise, obviously Gordoni, I mean, there's nothing you can say about that, but playing wise, Paul Langlois, am I saying? Langlois. Track 1:[45:25] Langlois. Track 2:[45:27] Um, and Rob Baker. I've always kind of gone back. I'm starting to appreciate the differences between those guys because they're two Diametrically different guitar players. I mean so different and and That happened on this album. Track 3:[45:43] Don't you? Track 2:[45:43] Oh, yeah more so really noticeable and I went down a bit of a rabbit hole this week I'll try not to go as deep as I went, but I told JD I was watching some live stuff and looking at Rob Baker's set up. [46:05] Paul Ling Hua, he always plays that black Les Paul, but Rob Baker plays that Strat, which I fucking love. And he's got something called Lace Sensors pickups in it, which not to get too technical for the listeners. They were apparently these were like standard issue Fender pickups from 90 from 85 to like 96 and then they just became too expensive. But they're really cool. The only shitty part is they look horrible on a guitar. They don't look it doesn't make it look like a Strat anyway. But he also plays a Paul Reed Smith, which I absolutely hate those guitars because, and JD I told you this, they're the Carlos Santana guitar and when they first became like available to the public so to speak or like mainstream people were able to buy them. I remember walking into a guitar center in the 90s and seeing one up on the wall that was like, it was like $19,000 or $20,000 it was like ridiculous and just going, and now can buy a PRS for like $1,800, $2,000, but it just turned me off and I fucking hate it. And if I'm Rob Baker, if I'm Rob, if you're listening, just don't ever play the fucking PRS, man. Get rid of it. Ditch it. Rob Baker's guitar choices and preferences[47:30] The telly's cool, but that strat is where it's at, man. [47:35] He does play Tele, and there's one other one I can't remember, but there's a great website, and I sadly have been on it more times than I can count. Oh, and he plays an SG, and I play an SG too. The website's called Equipboard.com, and it's got, they can pretty much look at any like, musician that's like, you know, quote, unquote, made it, so to speak, and find their rig, and they have the references, like, not just like, they don't just tell you, but they go, this is why we know that this is they're playing and they have a link to like a concert video, or a picture of them pointing out the gear, which is fucking cool. Track 1:[48:24] It's really cool. Yeah. I love, neither of you guys mentioned it, but I love Gord's voice in this song. He's doing a different sort of thing with his voice. It's lower register, softer I suppose, right? Because it is a soft song. But it's down, it's, you know, sorry you can't see my hand, but it's down here, like belly button wise. Uh is really quite quite uh effective on this song i agree with that jd when are you gonna fix your your belly button cam you're gonna get that going next next pod what's that my belly button cam Yeah, that took me a minute to get. Sorry. All right, track number six. Track number 6 is The Bastard. Appreciating the Percussion and Lyrical InsanityTrack 2:[56:45] Wow. This song starts with the they're not bongos, but there's some sort of kind of cool percussion. Track 3:[56:54] They're there. Yeah, it's some kind of yeah, yeah, yeah. Track 2:[56:59] There's a lot. Track 3:[57:00] It's fun. I love when they bring those in. Track 2:[57:02] Yeah, it's really cool. This song lyrically is fucking insane. There's a word in there called crepuscular? Track 1:[57:16] Yeah, what is that? Like, what does that even mean? Track 2:[57:19] Yeah, it means, um, adjective of resembling or relating to twilight. Yeah, I mean, gnarly shit and- Oh, gourd. Track 1:[57:31] Oh, man. Track 3:[57:36] Crepuscular rays, as the sun groomed the plane with crepuscular rays. Track 2:[57:41] There's a line in there about the Purple Italians, like it's just... Track 3:[57:47] Yeah, what is that referencing? I meant to look that up. I meant to look that up more and did not. Track 2:[57:52] Some weird-ass lyrics. I noticed something too. I love the line, the presaging pel-nel. Yeah. Track 3:[58:03] Yeah, the pre-stage pel-nel. Track 1:[58:05] Pre-stage and pel-nel. Track 3:[58:06] Yeah, that was my favorite. Track 2:[58:09] It's um i noticed that in addition to to to um gordon sinclair being so in the fucking zone on this song like a like a like a hypnotized fucking i don't know dude he's just he's a fucking machine on this song song. He, I watched a little bit of the Woodstock, Woodstock live show 99. And in this song, during Grace 2, which is what they opened up with, Gord starts testing out some of these lyrics to this song during Grace 2. Bird's Eye View, right? Track 1:[58:54] He talks about a bird's eye view of a bird's eye view. Yeah, yeah. So cool that you got to see that. Track 2:[59:01] Finished watching the whole thing. Track 1:[59:02] And you recognize it. Track 2:[59:04] Go ahead. Frustration with lack of guitars in "Grace II"Track 1:[59:10] Yeah, I went down to Rabbit Hole the other day and was just watching a whole bunch. I started with that when I texted you guys and was like, yeah, I'm watching it. And for the beginning of Grace II, it's all drums and Gord's voice, which I don't mind, but I want to hear those guitars, you know? And then suddenly it kicks in. Track 3:[59:29] The purple people, the purple Italian people, I just found it was an Italian mass protest movement to call for the resignation of a prime minister, one of their prime ministers. I feel like, I don't know, there must have been an earlier historical use of this because this is actually from 2009. So yeah, I'm curious. Well, I forgot to tell you guys that Gord is actually reference a mystic he could see in the future yes I wouldn't be surprised yes guys if there's any more sorry there's any more insight on the purple people somebody somebody let us know Tim at getting hit So I got an email. Mention of an email received regarding the purple peopleTrack 1:[1:00:19] Yeah. Got to get our $80 worth. Track 3:[1:00:25] I loved the pre-staging Pell-Mel. There's been a handful. I wish I would have started a list of the gourdisms that would be so fun to learn and reference, because that was so good. When I first heard him sing that, it was like, you know. Track 1:[1:00:42] What is pell-mell? Track 3:[1:00:44] Well, it just means like, it just means like absurd craziness or warning, like presaging means like warning together. Well, pell-mell means confusion or disorder or like a confused haste. So it's, presaging is, you know, the warning of a disorderly moment or the warning of something about to go down. That's kind of what I took. Track 1:[1:01:16] That's dire, I love it. Track 3:[1:01:19] Pre-saging, yeah, it's good. I mean, it's a loaded three words, basically. I think Pete hit on a lot of it, but this song to me kind of got us back in the car and down the road again. It was like driving, rocking, feeling, which I totally dug. The reference of all of this auger as well, you know, auger meaning like a fucking coring, drilling, coring into something and it's just this good rocking song. Track 1:[1:01:55] It's different though. Auger spelled one way is coring, but there's another, like to auger is to portend a good or bad outcome. Track 3:[1:02:08] Okay. Track 1:[1:02:11] So it's like, to pretend. Yeah. And I believe that's what it, like, it's all this auger's well, like, but, right, like, auger a well could mean digging a hole. But auger's well means pretending to, portending to good things are going to happen. Track 3:[1:02:37] Okay, okay. I just thought there were some beautiful lyrics in here. Also, I mean, all this augurs well or yeah, it's the The stanza never mind that pool in the mountains victory came and went on winged elephants I saw you all this augurs. Well, like you know, what? What is what is going on there? But it I thought it was likely this loaded very story specific Specific song without researching it, you know, I heard the lyrics Billy Sunday shout in Philadelphia for Christ Like who really is this song about did you look up Billy Sunday? Track 1:[1:03:15] Yeah. Track 3:[1:03:16] Yeah. I loved I loved reading about that This is like one of those that is one of those songs easy, right? Yeah, you barely you barely touch into on the research side and Realize that you know Billy Sunday was baseball player. Track 1:[1:03:33] I want to say a pitcher from like 1891. Track 3:[1:03:36] Yeah, he was this total this this I guess amazing pitcher And he played for chicago and boston and philly and which During those times you played for a team like your whole career, you know, you stayed in the city You you you became a presence with the team and the community and all that stuff if you did but this this this fellow William Ashley or Billy Sunday Sunday was his family name he he was like a total drunk ladies man and he moved from team to team to team and I think this from what I read the cops and the ladies got to know him really well And then after playing in Philly, he was witnessed to on the street and ultimately became a traveling preacher. [1:04:32] He went from standout pitcher to traveling preacher. And while he was preaching, teams even were soliciting him to come back and pitch. And during those days, if you made like 400 bucks a month playing professional baseball, that was like, a great salary. Yeah, I'm sure. And at one point, I read the Pittsburgh Pirates offered him $2,000 a month, and he still declined, and he still continued to be a traveling preacher. And his kind of schtick was talking about like the sex and alcohol lifestyle, from what I gathered, a lot about alcohol. And it was so much that when towns heard he was coming, they would just close up the bars until he went out. Literally, because he was so like, you know, he was his own prohibitionist. So it's all the personality. Track 2:[1:05:37] Yeah Thinking of that was the runner then I Don't know Like losses lay or some Forrest Gump. Track 1:[1:05:45] No. Track 2:[1:05:45] No, this is a reference from the hip Oh Terry Fox Harry Fox. Track 1:[1:05:50] Very fine. Yeah no he's a guy that ran across canada or something and he got close but he died he ran a marathon everyday he ran a marathon everyday on one leg yeah. Oh okay yeah cuz he and he was he was like. He was twenty one years old and he got cancer they removed his leg and he decided he was gonna run across canada and he started on the east coast he passed away thunder bay so he passed away about one third of the way through. Track 3:[1:06:21] Wow. Track 1:[1:06:22] Oh, it's fucking still, man. That's crazy. But it's like, every day his stump was like, like, euchred because he was wearing one of the, like, now, probably, somebody could do it on one of those, like, one of those spring legs, you know? Track 3:[1:06:37] Yeah, yeah. Track 1:[1:06:38] Yeah, but back in the day, he had, like, just an old school prosthetic leg, and it was crazy. Yeah. Track 3:[1:06:45] Pete, on this one, did you feel like, Did you ever get an inkling like, uh, perhaps this one was music first lyric second, or did you pick up at all on like the kind of background guitar riffing that was kind of over here? And yeah, it was like, I don't know, it sounded a little after thought ish, that guitar riffing, just kind of carrying you through it all worked. But this one, this one, I think compositionally. You know, song, story, Billy Sunday reference aside, which is amazing to dive into and learn about. I mean, I almost want to paint Billy Sunday or something with like on the pulpit with a baseball bat. That's cool. A fifth of whiskey in the other hand or something. But anyways, I felt like compositionally, the song writing-wise fits in the album. It just It just kind of fits in there, but also like, eh. Track 1:[1:07:46] You weren't big on it. Track 3:[1:07:49] No, it didn't grab me. It was like, OK, let's get back in the car. We're back on the road. Let's get through the song. It's rocking. Yeah, let's see what's next. Track 2:[1:07:56] I think at first it was like that, but then the song really like, because instrumentally, it's so fucking rich. Yeah, but like Gord, dude, again, Gord could match, pick the most complex composition that any composers have ever written. And I'm sure there is some fucking book that Gord Downie wrote lyrics in, somewhere floating around or shoved in his fucking basement, that lyrics. Track 3:[1:08:29] I would hope there's like, yeah, like 200. Track 2:[1:08:32] Yeah, he could fit to that. I mean, they probably just, yeah. So I feel you. I feel you. I feel you. Yeah. Track 1:[1:08:40] So let's move into track number seven, The Completist. Track 2:[1:08:44] I don't have a ton to say about this. I would say I really love this song. Again, this is a fade in from the previous track. Gord Sinclair again. fucking standout performance on this song. The percussive chops of the band at this point in the record. I mean, there are other songs that come up that you're just like, what the fuck? But they're not a bar band anymore. I mean, I know they still, but I still think like, I don't know if it was Phantom Power before, a record or two before, you see that kind of bar band thing still rearing its head a little bit, Like, this is just so far from that. These guys are fucking, they've really become superb musicians from the EP to now. Like, they've honed their fucking craft. And then the... Musicians' dedication to improvementTrack 1:[1:09:51] Road tested. Track 2:[1:09:52] Yeah, I mean, it's the road, it's the recording, it's the composition. But it's clear that like, every single musician in this band is like, I want to become better at my instrument. And I'm going to do this. It wasn't just like they just played a bunch, kept doing it, like, they clearly actively tried to become better musicians, as they were continuing. Like, I would put that to any of these fucking guys, if they're standing in front of me, and tell me, like, tell me I'm lying. Like, tell me I'm full of shit. And they would say no. Like, Whether it's, I mean, fucking Kirk Hammett for fuck's sake was taking lessons from Steve Vai when he was already in Metallica. Like, what does that tell you? You know, like, musicians want to become better and they, these guys clearly. The only thing I was gonna say was the woman singing, I thought it was Kate Fenner from before, but it's not, right? Track 1:[1:10:52] I don't know, I thought it was Kate Fenner. Track 2:[1:10:54] Apparently it's, um, Julie. Do I run Dorian, Julie Dorian, Dorian. Track 1:[1:11:02] Oh, Julie Dorian. Track 2:[1:11:03] Okay. Track 1:[1:11:03] Yeah, yeah, yeah. That makes sense. Track 2:[1:11:05] But I, and this is just, you know, I want to say this earlier, Tim, but I want to say that I did do a little research on Kate Fenner and her, um, her label that she's signed to is called UFO music. So that's awesome. Track 1:[1:11:19] Oh, you must love that. Track 2:[1:11:20] I do. Track 3:[1:11:22] You just stole my thunder for Toronto 4. We'll get there. Track 2:[1:11:28] I thought the lyrics in the song were beautiful. It was fucking, the beautiful fucking lyrics. Amazingly beautiful. Track 1:[1:11:35] Yeah. Yeah. Track 3:[1:11:37] Well, I'll have to look into Julie Dorian. I had not found her. And we'll get to it, but we haven't talked much about Kate Fenner, nor who we mentioned earlier. Chris Brown. The fellow on keys, Chris Brown. Yeah, yeah, yeah. For me, this song to complete us, I felt like it was like at first it was kind of, OK, we're already back to a slowdown. Like, it felt a little bit of a chug placement-wise in the album, it's a beautiful song. You know, I just didn't, it kind of left me hanging a little bit. Like, it didn't grab me and shake me around or rattle me around or anything like that. It felt like it could have been an ender. Like, it felt like, is this the end of the album? I mean, this could be the end of an album, so that's good. Track 1:[1:12:29] Well, it's the end of side one, if you're thinking. Oh, maybe. LPs. Track 3:[1:12:36] Yeah, yeah, okay, okay. Track 1:[1:12:37] And that would make sense with our next song too, Freak Turbulence, opening side two with a banger, right? Track 3:[1:12:44] Yeah, big time. I mean, this is like we're alive again. We're back in the driver's seat or the passenger's seat. Like we have this backup singing again. I think this was Kate Fenner at this time. I'm not sure. Between the two. I don't know enough of Julie's voice to distinguish between the two. Track 1:[1:13:06] There are definitely people out there that will tell us for sure. Track 3:[1:13:10] Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, I'm gonna look it up because I think I got Kate Fenner down. I mean, yes, yeah, yeah. So back to the song though, there's a comedy factor here, am I wrong? Like, this is so much about Gord being afraid to fly or not liking flying or, you know? Yeah, yeah, yeah, there's all this talk about. I don't know, it feels lighter and more fun than usual. Track 1:[1:13:39] Like, did the captain just say this? Like, did the captain just say, like? Track 3:[1:13:45] Well, we'll land in less than 10 minutes. Or he says, or unless. Did he say unless or less? Yeah, he's afraid. You know, I think this is the song that guys. Were had to fly back to Canada from the US because originally this album Was to be recorded on a moving locomotive train. Track 1:[1:14:11] They talked about doing that. Yes I don't know how that would have ever happened. Track 3:[1:14:15] No shit. What a fucking cool idea I mean imagine that Pete moving locomotive with all the sounds and shakes and rattles I mean maybe maybe for a song but a whole album yeah with some serious that was some serious weed smoking yeah I'm up with that idea you know we should do guys we should fly back down to Memphis take the train take the train to LA and record the home anyways this this is a this was kind of a fun song it was a little more jovial I dug it there's a There's a weird, PeepeePie caught this, there's some weird guitar feedback, like the last 10 seconds or so, which made the song feel kind of ominous, or maybe the Freak Turbulence was like the plane going down, I don't know. It was funny in that regard, it was like a total head-scratcher, but this one I kind of dug. Track 2:[1:15:15] Oh, I dug this one, man, there's a line in there that really stuck with me, it's Satan Holding back hands, our nose and our chin. Track 3:[1:15:22] Yeah, yeah. Track 2:[1:15:24] I love that. There's a really, I think, the mix, there was a lot of moments where I wrote down, this is probably the first time I've said it, but it's written on a ton of songs, the mix on this song, how they mix this song with the instruments, like the levels of all the instruments, it's just so, it really, you know, it makes the fucking song. It makes this song so fucking cool the vocals build, Yeah, I really, you know, I'll rather than to, I'll save my, you know, I'll yield my time only because I have some, some hefty shit to say about some stuff coming up. But I, this song made me run, like when this song came on and I was going on some runs, I definitely put it into a higher gear with this song. I loved it. I loved it. Yeah. Track 3:[1:16:20] Yeah. Yeah. Especially after the completed, you know, transitioning into this one. It's like, yes, OK, here we go again. This is definitely the if it's side two, it definitely is the the side one. Get us going again. "Sharks" - a monotonous but intriguing song[1:16:36] Sharks, can I go? Sharks. Yeah. This one kind of lazes along for me. It's got a few interesting bridges, but it's kind of monotonous, but not not. I'm not saying that in a negative way. It's almost like, it's almost got this head down, shoegazy kind of feel, you know? Then at the three minute mark, there's this like heavy tom kind of bass kind of transition in there. It's the bass guitar is like kind of all over the neck for just a brief second, but you know, it's one of, the, this song is, it has what I enjoyed because they they're starting to do this more because they're all just accelerating as musicians is that it has like well over a minute of music the last portion of it is just like great music carrying you through rather than singing until like the last seconds or giving like seven seconds at the end or what have you so it's. [1:17:42] It was kind of a fun song in that way. It just felt different than the rest, but also worked, you know, positively. Track 2:[1:17:52] I love, this is another fade in from the previous track, which I love, that they're doing that, making it very concept-y. I love the line in there about the Mariana's Trench. That's just fucking cool. It's such a, it's always been a fascination of mine, probably since I saw fucking, what was the name of that movie? Was that Harris? I don't know. I thought it was a James Cameron movie for Christ's sake, it was huge. The Abyss. The Abyss. Oh, The Abyss. The Abyss was in Maria's Trench. Track 1:[1:18:29] Right, right, right, right. Track 2:[1:18:32] But yeah, I mean, the big standout for me here is Rob Baker's guitar is just fucking insanity. He does these really cool arpeggios in the song. And the coolest thing for me was, I was like, what's that fucking effect on this guitar? And I was like, I wrote this down early on, I was like, he's got a, like a delay on the guitar, but not a delay. So it's going bum, bum, bum, bum, bum. It's so, the delay time is so small that you can't really hear it like a repetitive delay. It's just, when you put it down almost to zero, it just has this cool, and then I look on no shit by the time I found that website and he's got a Line 6 DL4 delay pedal that no doubt he was using on this fucking song. It just made me feel cool because I was like, my ears still work after all these years. But I fucking love it. If I didn't, I didn't think there was a song that could rival Tiger the Lion and I still don't think it beats it but it's pretty up there and that's fucking Toronto 4. An analysis of the opening guitar arpeggiosTrack 1:[1:26:42] Talk to me. Talk to me. Track 2:[1:26:44] I mean, the way it opens with the, like, the record static. Yep. Again, Rob Baker's doing these weird arpeggios, like he, like, it's kind of like a falling guitar, like he goes from a, like a, it's a D chord or whatever the hell, the octave, than the chord, then the seventh, then the diminished. Makes it feel really sad. It's just, or like, kind of sad and mysterious, and it's floating. It's like all the echo-y shit that there's, I don't know if it's Kate Fenner on this. It is. It is? Okay. Track 3:[1:27:26] Yeah. Track 2:[1:27:27] Yeah. The way that the, I don't know if it's like he's using mallets or what, but Johnny Fay is like coming in with the cymbals with these really soft mallets that like kind of give it like a gong sound to make it really super dramatic but the songs it's fucking awesome I mean I was like what it was weird because this was a song that early on I would get through the first nine tracks because I was doing like shorter runs when I would take it out and I didn't get to like Toronto for and then the first time I heard it I was like what in the fuck the surf tone on guitar is just... It's a cool jam dude. It's cool as fuck. A lot of Pink Floyd, I feel, influence on there. Track 3:[1:28:18] I agree with all that. I felt like the percussions on this, the drums on this one, had sort of this metronome, just more of a... I don't know. Track 2:[1:28:28] You do the panning on the left to right? Track 3:[1:28:31] Yeah, like the pace of the percussion really, to me, held the song like all the way through and was perfect. I mean, I often hone in on drum stuff like you do guitar and I felt like that was just, I don't know, this song is, it starts slow, it's emotional, it kind of feels like apologetic you know also feels like i don't know familiar maybe it's like the mention of Vesuvius as a metaphor for like family and stresses and breakups and i don't know the The song was just, it's pretty jam packed. I didn't. Look big into the background on lyrics or story or any of that, you know, I just questioned, which I said to JD like a week ago, I was like, why the hell Toronto four? Are there three other Toronto songs? Or what is what is that about? Track 1:[1:29:29] So if anybody knows, my only guess is, like my, as far as just guesswork, is might be, it might have been the fourth run, you know, it might have been the fourth take, like it's Sometimes you use the studio parlance to come up with the title of a song that you can't quite name. Track 3:[1:29:49] Yeah. Track 1:[1:29:50] Well, this is a great, it's a great song, and you're right, you nailed it on the head when you talk about family. Yeah, yeah. It's definitely familial. It's, you know, it's about the matriarch of his family, his grandmother, holding things up. And that what are the first the first lyrics are? Absolutely. They slay me and I can't recall them at the moment. Track 3:[1:30:17] You know, you were the rock plug for us all. Did you know you were the conduit of Vesuvius? You were far more unifying than, you know, I'm not a judge of suitable, but you almost had it all. I mean, if that's about his grandma being the what a tribute, the rock plug for their family. I mean rock plug is definitely a volcanic reference of you know a rock holding the mountain together before the magma just blows it apart so it's right fucking cool pretty pretty yeah I mean it's this this one maybe has the simplest lyrics that we've seen in a while. [1:30:59] It's it's a beautiful song. So Kate Fenner on this one just to touch on her because I Think we've heard her before although. I only found that she To recorded and toured for this album, but man, she's she's got this How do you describe her voice? I think it's just gorgeous. I think it's yeah, it's It's just, it's, it's, it's lovely. I, she, she, somebody described her as less, a lusty alternative to a Joni Mitchell ish sound. Like all of that is, is true. So she's got her own solo stuff. She's got, as Pete mentioned, UFO Records is her label. She's got this new album out that I touched on briefly over the weekend. It's it's pretty she's got a beautiful voice like if she ever tours and we get a chance to just Go and any of us hear her perform. I'm sure it would be worth it. She's got a dreamy voice So yeah, great great addition to me, too I don't know if you saw this tour JD, but what she did she yeah, do you recall her on stage or yeah? Track 1:[1:32:09] Because it was it was strange because both Chris Brown and her were on stage with them the whole time and that was It was just it was sort of a strange look because up until that point It had been the five of the month's age. Track 3:[1:32:20] Mm-hmm. Track 1:[1:32:20] That was it. And so this you know, it changed the dynamic for sure and I'll be the first to tell you that when this record dropped I Liked it But I didn't love it. But now 20 years later. Yeah, I fucking love this record Yeah, I can listen to this record at any time like yeah, yeah top to bottom. Okay, okay, Now let's go toward the bottom and talk about Wild Mountain Honey, dude. Track 3:[1:32:52] I love this one. So I'm taking I'm taking on this one. Mr Okay, you can you can fill in do it Yeah, like this this to me I heard Pink Floyd I heard Jerry Garcia of guitar effects Like I I heard like fish. I don't know like this song to me. They even the the title is is different, like this one was just a little bit different there. You know, it's the drums are soft, but they can sound kind of angry. This is one of the songs on the album, you know, the first time listening it through. Or I thought, OK, I need to find this one live and check it out because I'm sure it gets played harder and louder, maybe faster. [1:33:43] There's just really good chord changing and bridges and guitar riffs and it feels a little bit patched or contrived at the end you know I was hoping for like a big finish the first time I heard this one because it really grabbed me it made it just this to me was like hip fans who have seen the band play live a a bunch. Probably love this one live. You know, this one just, it hit some marks for me with going, with going after, like, followers of other bands who I knew probably in the same summer saw Grateful Dead play it or saw Phish play and saw the Tragically Hit play. Like a lot of, you know, A lot of times when I experience bands playing live over the course of a summer, it kind of, you know, dictates that summer. Like, you think back to that summer and you're like, oh, that's when I went to X Festival or that's when I saw 8Bandplay a couple times. The Papa Roach show. Yeah, like that's, yeah, definitely the Papa Roach show. But no, this one was, This kind of centered me back into the seat of the Tragically Hip. I really dug it. I ended up listening to it a handful of times by itself. Track 1:[1:35:08] Oh wow! Cool. Track 3:[1:35:11] Probably not a single though, right? Track 1:[1:35:13] Not a single, nope. Track 3:[1:35:14] Yeah, every once in a while they have a song that's not a single that's a little bit off character that I dig and this is one of those. Rhythms and Unique Drum Hits in "Wild Mountain Honey"Track 2:[1:35:23] I thought that I mean the song it's funny ironically it starts out like wild mountain honey it begins like the name does Soft like wild mountain honey, and it creeps up on you like a whiskey, and it fucking destroys. Yeah, yeah, yeah Yeah, I think It's funny because I remember looking for the lyrics online and realized there's a Steve Miller song called why I'm not many as well But when I saw the title of this, I thought of the Peach Boys song, Wild Honey, which neither of those examples are even close to this song. But what I got from it was, I fucking love the rhythms in this fucking, the drums in the rhythms. The drum hits in this fucking song are so cool and they're so unique and they don't sound like another band. Like there's some songs that, like I mentioned, some Wilco stuff earlier, there's other songs from other hip records where it's like they're doing a drum hit or a drum fill and you're like, yeah, that's the same drum fill that this band did on this song and that's been, this is completely fucking different. And it's so fucking cool. So unique, the rhythms in the song. [1:36:43] There's a weird keyboard or flute effect in the background going down, it was really faint and hard to pick up. I'm pretty sure it was a keyboard, but it could have been some sort of setting, but I love the line, I don't want to put another thought in my head, I just thought that was so fucking cool towards the end. And then the song, the solo starts before, but the part at about 3 minutes 30 seconds of the guitar soloer. Just, I don't know, dude. I hope I run into him. Track 3:[1:37:18] That carries it to the end, right? Track 2:[1:37:22] It does. Yeah. I want to run into Rob Baker at a 7-Eleven or something. Him buying a Slurpee and me already up front and being like, hey, man, let me get this guy's Slurpee and I'll pay for it or something. Just be like, alright, man. Track 1:[1:37:41] What a gentleman you are. Track 2:[1:37:42] I want to be that guy. It's weird that I did not expect to where I'm at so far in the discography of this band for him to slowly become one of my almost favored guitar players. And this guy that I never knew before. I fucking love his fucking guitar playing, dude. It's fucking awesome. Track 1:[1:38:09] Yeah, he's really good. Track 3:[1:38:11] That's an amazing gift for you, bro. What's that? So that's an amazing gift for you to have this discovery of a new influence. Track 2:[1:38:19] Totally, absolutely Tim, absolutely. Track 3:[1:38:22] So Train Overnight, the next

Singles Going Around- Here Comes The WeekendBo Diddley- "Aztec"The Beach Boys- "Wild Honey"The Rolling Stones- "Off The Hook"Gary US Bonds- "I Wanna Holler"J.J. Cale- "After Midnight"Dave Edmunds- "Here Comes The Weekend"Otis Redding- "Wonderful World"John Mayall with Eric Clapton- "Steppin Out"Bobby Charles- "Street People"The Beatles- "I Want To Tell You"The Kinks- "Holiday In Waikiki"The Rolling Stones- "Little Red Rooster"The Counts- "Enchanted Sea"The Vettes- "Voodoo Green Part One"*des vinyls originaux"

Un poema de Safia Elhillo ilumina un programa de cancionistas que proponen verdades. Alma y corazón. Ahwak. Abdel Halim Hafez  Dores. Alegoría. Bela. Guadi Galego Tempestad. Amor. Entre tú y yo. Tan lejos. A tu lado. Simulacro. Fino Oyonarte Everything I did, I did it just for you. Like a pearl. What a show. Rumia Dinosaurios y Supermercados. Wild Honey Escuchar audio

After her family moved from the Philippines to California, a teenage June Millington heard a girl playing guitar at school. Soon after, June and her sister Jean were playing acoustic guitars and ukuleles at variety shows. Before long, they were playing in bands, now with electric guitars. After several personnel changes and band names, The Svelts and Wild Honey, they landed a recording contract. They changed the band name to Fanny. People took notice, including David Bowie who referred to Fanny as “extraordinary... as important as anybody else.”  Their first time playing a large venue was opening for The Kinks and Procol Harum. Fanny made their mark as a fantastic and much-loved all-female rock group. June Millington has made her mark – she's Artistic Director at Institute for the Musical Arts. IMA runs rock n' roll performance and recording programs for girls and young women. June recently released a new album, Snaphots. Her autobiography, Land of a Thousand Bridges: Island Girl in a Rock & Roll World tells her amazing story. I've been a fan for years. It was great…getting to talk with June Millington.Photo by Sasha PedroYou can purchase June's autobiography, Land of a Thousand Bridges, from The Institute for the Musical Arts here.You can also get June's latest album Snapshots here.June's sister Jean, who played bass for Fanny, suffered a stroke and could use your help. A GoFundMe page has been set up for those who'd like to donate here.Buzzsprout - Let's get your podcast launched! Start for FREEFind or Sell Guitars and Gear at Reverb Find great deals on guitars, amps, audio and recording gear. Or sell yours! Check out Reverb.comDisclaimer: This post contains affiliate links. If you make a purchase, I may receive a commission at no extra cost to you.Thanks for listening to Frets with DJ Fey. You can follow or subscribe for FREE at most podcast platforms. If you play guitar and are interested in being a guest, or have a suggestion for one, send me an email at davefey@me.com. You can also find information about guitarists, bands and more at the Frets with DJ Fey Facebook page. Give it a like! And – stay tuned…

She is Love.On this episode we are joined by Jamie Adams , Jamie Adams is a BIFA nominated Writer/Director of Black Mountain Poets, Wild Honey, Love Spreads, and She is Love.Please support the Mark and Me Podcast via Patreon here: https://www.patreon.com/Markandme or you can buy me a coffee here: https://ko-fi.com/markandme or you can even treat yourself to a badge or sticker over at my store here: https://www.etsy.com/uk/shop/MarkandMeStore

Wednesday January 11, 2023 Reading through the New Testament in 2023 Mark 1

Decades ago, the Berenstain Bears’ Saturday Morning Cartoon secretly presented a multi-part saga that only reveals itself when you’re bored and watching a Berenstain Bears Saturday Morning Cartoon. It’s the “Wild Wild Honey Saga!”

We meet a wild man in the wilderness of Judea proclaiming, "Repent, for the kingdom of heaven has come near." We're joined by Luther House of Study's Lars Olson, who teaches us the definition of repentance and what it means that the kingdom of heaven *has already* come near. Repentance happens to you. You are repented. Encountering God's kingdom completely changes your life. Since God's kingdom has already come, this is not a call to get your life right. Lars teaches Adam, Kiri and Mason what it means to bear good fruit and how that actually happens in our day-to-day life. Adam, Kiri, and Mason ask:What does repent mean? Does a tree decide where to bear fruit?What is a good work?Support the showInterested in sponsoring an episode of Scripture First?Email Sarah at sarah.stenson@lutherhouseofstudy.org or visit our donation page: lutherhouseofstudy.org/donate

Rusty Schwimmer is an actress, with 134 film/tv credits on IMDB. Some of the films she acted in include The Perfect Storm, Twister, The Belko Experiment and Amistad. She has also had guest appearances on many great TV shows including Better Call Saul, The Righteous Gemstones and Married with Children. We discuss her acting career, working with PT Anderson, the re-release of Scrooge & Marley, playing the lead in Wild Honey, and more! 00:00 - Intro00:34 - Playing the Lead in Wild Honey 04:10 - Scrooge & Marley 08:02 - Dahmer & LGBTQ Category 10:45 - Acting Classes & Inspiration 12:15 - Carol Burnett & Better Call Saul 14:50 - Being Recognized  16:00 - Supportive Friends & Family 17:14 - Henry Winkler & Virginia Madsen 20:55 - Dirk Diggler & PT Anderson 25:35 - Spielberg & Amistad 27:06 - Chris Farley & Christopher Guest 28:55 - Alcohol, Drugs, Emotions & Art 32:25 - The Perfect Storm & Accent34:45 - How Fame Changes People 38:44 - Psychology & Human Behavior 41:25 - Success Stories & Slumps 46:45 - Voices 49:15 - Music 50:47 - You Can't Win 52:40 - Anthony Hopkins & Acting Style 55:05 - Musical Styles 57:30 - United Negro College Fund 58:50 - Outro Rusty Schwimmer Instagram:https://www.instagram.com/rustyschwim/United Negro College Fund:https://uncf.org/Chuck Shute website:http://chuckshute.com/Support the showThanks for Listening & Shute for the Moon!

Episode one hundred and fifty-three of A History of Rock Music in Five Hundred Songs looks at “Heroes and Villains” by the Beach Boys, and the collapse of the Smile album. Click the full post to read liner notes, links to more information, and a transcript of the episode. Patreon backers also have a sixteen-minute bonus episode available, on "I Had Too Much to Dream Last Night" by the Electric Prunes. Tilt Araiza has assisted invaluably by doing a first-pass edit, and will hopefully be doing so from now on. Check out Tilt's irregular podcasts at http://www.podnose.com/jaffa-cakes-for-proust and http://sitcomclub.com/ Resources There is no Mixcloud this week, because there were too many Beach Boys songs in the episode. I used many resources for this episode. As well as the books I referred to in all the Beach Boys episodes, listed below, I used Domenic Priore's book Smile: The Story of Brian Wilson's Lost Masterpiece and Richard Henderson's 33 1/3 book on Van Dyke Parks' Song Cycle. Stephen McParland has published many, many books on the California surf and hot-rod music scenes, including several on both the Beach Boys and Gary Usher.  His books can be found at https://payhip.com/CMusicBooks Andrew Doe's Bellagio 10452 site is an invaluable resource. Jon Stebbins' The Beach Boys FAQ is a good balance between accuracy and readability. And Philip Lambert's Inside the Music of Brian Wilson is an excellent, though sadly out of print, musicological analysis of Wilson's music from 1962 through 67. Catch a Wave: The Rise, Fall, and Redemption of the Beach Boys' Brian Wilson by Peter Ames Carlin is the best biography of Wilson. I have also referred to Brian Wilson's autobiography, I Am Brian Wilson, and to Mike Love's, Good Vibrations: My Life as a Beach Boy. As a good starting point for the Beach Boys' music in general, I would recommend this budget-priced three-CD set, which has a surprisingly good selection of their material on it, including the single version of “Heroes and Villains”. The box set The Smile Sessions  contains an attempt to create a finished album from the unfinished sessions, plus several CDs of outtakes and session material. Transcript [Opening -- "intro to the album" studio chatter into "Our Prayer"] Before I start, I'd just like to note that this episode contains some discussion of mental illness, including historical negative attitudes towards it, so you may want to check the transcript or skip this one if that might be upsetting. In November and December 1966, the filmmaker David Oppenheim and the conductor and composer Leonard Bernstein collaborated on a TV film called "Inside Pop: The Rock Revolution".  The film was an early attempt at some of the kinds of things this podcast is doing, looking at how music and social events interact and evolve, though it was dealing with its present rather than the past. The film tried to cast as wide a net as possible in its fifty-one minutes. It looked at two bands from Manchester -- the Hollies and Herman's Hermits -- and how the people identified as their leaders, "Herman" (or Peter Noone) and Graham Nash, differed on the issue of preventing war: [Excerpt: Inside Pop, the Rock Revolution] And it made a star of East Coast teenage singer-songwriter Janis Ian with her song about interracial relationships, "Society's Child": [Excerpt: Janis Ian, "Society's Child"] And Bernstein spends a significant time, as one would expect, analysing the music of the Beatles and to a lesser extent the Stones, though they don't appear in the show. Bernstein does a lot to legitimise the music just by taking it seriously as a subject for analysis, at a time when most wouldn't: [Excerpt: Leonard Bernstein talking about "She Said She Said"] You can't see it, obviously, but in the clip that's from, as the Beatles recording is playing, Bernstein is conducting along with the music, as he would a symphony orchestra, showing where the beats are falling. But of course, given that this was filmed in the last two months of 1966, the vast majority of the episode is taken up with musicians from the centre of the music world at that time, LA. The film starts with Bernstein interviewing Tandyn Almer,  a jazz-influenced songwriter who had recently written the big hit "Along Comes Mary" for The Association: [Excerpt: Inside Pop: The Rock Revolution] It featured interviews with Roger McGuinn, and with the protestors at the Sunset Strip riots which were happening contemporaneously with the filming: [Excerpt: Inside Pop: The Rock Revolution] Along with Frank Zappa's rather acerbic assessment of the potential of the youth revolutionaries: [Excerpt: Inside Pop: The Rock Revolution] And ended (other than a brief post-commercial performance over the credits by the Hollies) with a performance by Tim Buckley, whose debut album, as we heard in the last episode, had featured Van Dyke Parks and future members of the Mothers of Invention and Buffalo Springfield: [Excerpt: Inside Pop: The Rock Revolution] But for many people the highlight of the film was the performance that came right before Buckley's, film of Brian Wilson playing a new song from the album he was working on. One thing I should note -- many sources say that the voiceover here is Bernstein. My understanding is that Bernstein wrote and narrated the parts of the film he was himself in, and Oppenheim did all the other voiceover writing and narration, but that Oppenheim's voice is similar enough to Bernstein's that people got confused about this: [Excerpt: Inside Pop: The Rock Revolution] That particular piece of footage was filmed in December 1966, but it wasn't broadcast until April the twenty-fifth, 1967, an eternity in mid-sixties popular music. When it was broadcast, that album still hadn't come out. Precisely one week later, the Beach Boys' publicist Derek Taylor announced that it never would: [Excerpt: Brian Wilson, "Surf's Up"] One name who has showed up in a handful of episodes recently, but who we've not talked that much about, is Van Dyke Parks. And in a story with many, many, remarkable figures, Van Dyke Parks may be one of the most remarkable of all. Long before he did anything that impinges on the story of rock music, Parks had lived the kind of life that would be considered unbelievable were it to be told as fiction. Parks came from a family that mixed musical skill, political progressiveness, and achievement. His mother was a scholar of Hebrew, while his father was a neurologist, the first doctor to admit Black patients to a white Southern hospital, and had paid his way through college leading a dance band. Parks' father was also, according to the 33 1/3 book on Song Cycle, a member of "John Philip Sousa's Sixty Silver Trumpets", but literally every reference I can find to Sousa leading a band of that name goes back to that book, so I've no idea what he was actually a member of, but we can presume he was a reasonable musician. Young Van Dyke started playing the clarinet at four, and was also a singer from a very early age, as well as playing several other instruments. He went to the American Boychoir School in Princeton, to study singing, and while there he sang with Toscaninni, Thomas Beecham, and other immensely important conductors of the era. He also had a very special accompanist for one Christmas carolling session. The choir school was based in Princeton, and one of the doors he knocked on while carolling was that of Princeton's most famous resident, Albert Einstein, who heard the young boy singing "Silent Night", and came out with his violin and played along. Young Van Dyke was only interested in music, but he was also paying the bills for his music tuition himself -- he had a job. He was a TV star. From the age of ten, he started getting roles in TV shows -- he played the youngest son in the 1953 sitcom Bonino, about an opera singer, which flopped because it aired opposite the extremely popular Jackie Gleason Show. He would later also appear in that show, as one of several child actors who played the character of Little Tommy Manicotti, and he made a number of other TV appearances, as well as having a small role in Grace Kelly's last film, The Swan, with Alec Guinness and Louis Jourdain. But he never liked acting, and just did it to pay for his education. He gave it up when he moved on to the Carnegie Institute, where he majored in composition and performance. But then in his second year, his big brother Carson asked him to drop out and move to California. Carson Parks had been part of the folk scene in California for a few years at this point. He and a friend had formed a duo called the Steeltown Two, but then both of them had joined the folk group the Easy Riders, a group led by Terry Gilkyson. Before Carson Parks joined, the Easy Riders had had a big hit with their version of "Marianne", a calypso originally by the great calypsonian Roaring Lion: [Excerpt: The Easy Riders, "Marianne"] They hadn't had many other hits, but their songs became hits for other people -- Gilkyson wrote several big hits for Frankie Laine, and the Easy Riders were the backing vocalists on Dean Martin's recording of a song they wrote, "Memories are Made of This": [Excerpt: Dean Martin and the Easy Riders, "Memories are Made of This"] Carson Parks hadn't been in the group at that point -- he only joined after they'd stopped having success -- and eventually the group had split up. He wanted to revive his old duo, the Steeltown Two, and persuaded his family to let his little brother Van Dyke drop out of university and move to California to be the other half of the duo. He wanted Van Dyke to play guitar, while he played banjo. Van Dyke had never actually played guitar before, but as Carson Parks later said "in 90 days, he knew more than most folks know after many years!" Van Dyke moved into an apartment adjoining his brother's, owned by Norm Botnick, who had until recently been the principal viola player in a film studio orchestra, before the film studios all simultaneously dumped their in-house orchestras in the late fifties, so was a more understanding landlord than most when it came to the lifestyles of musicians. Botnick's sons, Doug and Bruce, later went into sound engineering -- we've already encountered Bruce Botnick in the episode on the Doors, and he will be coming up again in the future. The new Steeltown Two didn't make any records, but they developed a bit of a following in the coffeehouses, and they also got a fair bit of session work, mostly through Terry Gilkyson, who was by that point writing songs for Disney and would hire them to play on sessions for his songs. And it was Gilkyson who both brought Van Dyke Parks the worst news of his life to that point, and in doing so also had him make his first major mark on music. Gilkyson was the one who informed Van Dyke that another of his brothers, Benjamin Riley Parks, had died in what was apparently a car accident. I say it was apparently an accident because Benjamin Riley Parks was at the time working for the US State Department, and there is apparently also some evidence that he was assassinated in a Cold War plot. Gilkyson also knew that neither Van Dyke nor Carson Parks had much money, so in order to help them afford black suits and plane tickets to and from the funeral, Gilkyson hired Van Dyke to write the arrangement for a song he had written for an upcoming Disney film: [Excerpt: Jungle Book soundtrack, "The Bare Necessities"] The Steeltown Two continued performing, and soon became known as the Steeltown Three, with the addition of a singer named Pat Peyton. The Steeltown Three recorded two singles, "Rock Mountain", under that group name: [Excerpt: The Steeltown Three, "Rock Mountain"] And a version of "San Francisco Bay" under the name The South Coasters, which I've been unable to track down. Then the three of them, with the help of Terry Gilkyson, formed a larger group in the style of the New Christy Minstrels -- the Greenwood County Singers. Indeed, Carson Parks would later claim that  Gilkyson had had the idea first -- that he'd mentioned that he'd wanted to put together a group like that to Randy Sparks, and Sparks had taken the idea and done it first. The Greenwood County Singers had two minor hot one hundred hits, only one of them while Van Dyke was in the band -- "The New 'Frankie and Johnny' Song", a rewrite by Bob Gibson and Shel Silverstein of the old traditional song "Frankie and Johnny": [Excerpt: The Greenwood County Singers, "The New Frankie and Johnny Song"] They also recorded several albums together, which gave Van Dyke the opportunity to practice his arrangement skills, as on this version of  "Vera Cruz" which he arranged: [Excerpt: The Greenwood County Singers, "Vera Cruz"] Some time before their last album, in 1965, Van Dyke left the Greenwood County Singers, and was replaced by Rick Jarrard, who we'll also be hearing more about in future episodes. After that album, the group split up, but Carson Parks would go on to write two big hits in the next few years. The first and biggest was a song he originally wrote for a side project. His future wife Gaile Foote was also a Greenwood County Singer, and the two of them thought they might become folk's answer to Sonny and Cher or Nino Tempo and April Stevens: [Excerpt: Carson and Gaile, "Somethin' Stupid"] That obviously became a standard after it was covered by Frank and Nancy Sinatra. Carson Parks also wrote "Cab Driver", which in 1968 became the last top thirty hit for the Mills Brothers, the 1930s vocal group we talked about way way back in episode six: [Excerpt: The Mills Brothers, "Cab Driver"] Meanwhile Van Dyke Parks was becoming part of the Sunset Strip rock and roll world. Now, until we get to 1967, Parks has something of a tangled timeline. He worked with almost every band around LA in a short period, often working with multiple people simultaneously, and nobody was very interested in keeping detailed notes. So I'm going to tell this as a linear story, but be aware it's very much not -- things I say in five minutes might happen after, or in the same week as, things I say in half an hour. At some point in either 1965 or 1966 he joined the Mothers of Invention for a brief while. Nobody is entirely sure when this was, and whether it was before or after their first album. Some say it was in late 1965, others in August 1966, and even the kind of fans who put together detailed timelines are none the wiser, because no recordings have so far surfaced of Parks with the band. Either is plausible, and the Mothers went through a variety of keyboard players at this time -- Zappa had turned to his jazz friend Don Preston, but found Preston was too much of a jazzer and told him to come back when he could play "Louie Louie" convincingly, asked Mac Rebennack to be in the band but sacked him pretty much straight away for drug use, and eventually turned to Preston again once Preston had learned to rock and roll. Some time in that period, Van Dyke Parks was a Mother, playing electric harpsichord. He may even have had more than one stint in the group -- Zappa said "Van Dyke Parks played electric harpsichord in and out." It seems likely, though, that it was in summer of 1966, because in an interview published in Teen Beat Magazine in December 66, but presumably conducted a few months prior, Zappa was asked to describe the band members in one word each and replied: "Ray—Mahogany Roy—Asbestos Jim—Mucilage Del—Acetate Van Dyke—Pinocchio Billy—Boom I don't know about the rest of the group—I don't even know about these guys." Sources differ as to why Parks didn't remain in the band -- Parks has said that he quit after a short time because he didn't like being shouted at, while Zappa said "Van Dyke was not a reliable player. He didn't make it to rehearsal on time and things like that." Both may be true of course, though I've not heard anyone else ever criticise Parks for his reliability. But then also Zappa had much more disciplinarian standards than most rock band leaders. It's possibly either through Zappa that he met Tom Wilson, or through Tom Wilson that he met Frank Zappa, but either way Parks, like the Mothers of Invention, was signed to MGM records in 1966, where he released two solo singles co-produced by Wilson and an otherwise obscure figure named Tim Alvorado. The first was "Number Nine", which we heard last week, backed with "Do What You Wanta": [Excerpt: Van Dyke Parks, "Do What You Wanta"] At least one source I've read says that the lyrics to "Do What You Wanta" were written not by Parks but by his friend Danny Hutton, but it's credited as a Parks solo composition on the label. It was after that that the Van Dyke Parks band -- or as they were sometimes billed, just The Van Dyke Parks formed, as we discussed last episode, based around Parks, Steve Stills, and Steve Young, and they performed a handful of shows with bass player Bobby Rae and drummer Walt Sparman, playing a mix of original material, primarily Parks' songs, and covers of things like "Dancing in the Street". The one contemporaneous review of a live show I've seen talks about  the girls in the audience screaming and how "When rhythm guitarist Steve Stillman imitated the Barry McGuire emotional scene, they almost went wiggy". But The Van Dyke Parks soon split up, and Parks the individual recorded his second single, "Come to the Sunshine": [Excerpt: Van Dyke Parks, "Come to the Sunshine"] Around the time he left the Greenwood County Singers, Van Dyke Parks also met Brian Wilson for the first time, when David Crosby took him up to Wilson's house to hear an acetate of the as-yet-unreleased track "Sloop John B". Parks was impressed by Wilson's arrangement techniques, and in particular the way he was orchestrating instrumental combinations that you couldn't do with a standard live room setup, that required overdubbing and close-micing. He said later "The first stuff I heard indicated this kind of curiosity for the recording experience, and when I went up to see him in '65 I don't even think he had the voices on yet, but I heard that long rotational breathing, that long flute ostinato at the beginning... I knew this man was a great musician." [Excerpt: The Beach Boys, "Sloop John B (instrumental)"] In most of 1966, though, Parks was making his living as a session keyboard player and arranger, and much of the work he was getting was through Lenny Waronker. Waronker was a second-generation music industry professional. His father, Si Waronker, had been a violinist in the Twentieth Century Fox studio orchestra before founding Liberty Records (the label which indirectly led to him becoming immortalised in children's entertainment, when Liberty Records star David Seville named his Chipmunk characters after three Liberty executives, with Simon being Si Waronker's full forename). The first release on Liberty Records had been a version of "The Girl Upstairs", an instrumental piece from the Fox film The Seven-Year Itch. The original recording of that track, for the film, had been done by the Twentieth Century Fox Orchestra, written and conducted by Alfred Newman, the musical director for Fox: [Excerpt: Alfred Newman, "The Girl Upstairs"] Liberty's soundalike version was conducted by Newman's brother Lionel, a pianist at the studio who later became Fox's musical director for TV, just as his brother was for film, but who also wrote many film scores himself. Another Newman brother, Emil, was also a film composer, but the fourth brother, Irving, had gone into medicine instead. However, Irving's son Randy wanted to follow in the family business, and he and Lenny Waronker, who was similarly following his own father by working for Liberty Records' publishing subsidiary Metric Music, had been very close friends ever since High School. Waronker got Newman signed to Metric Music, where he wrote "They Tell Me It's Summer" for the Fleetwoods: [Excerpt: The Fleetwoods, "They Tell Me It's Summer"] Newman also wrote and recorded a single of his own in 1962, co-produced by Pat Boone: [Excerpt: Randy Newman, "Golden Gridiron Boy"] Before deciding he wasn't going to make it as a singer and had better just be a professional songwriter. But by 1966 Waronker had moved on from Metric to Warner Brothers, and become a junior A&R man. And he was put in charge of developing the artists that Warners had acquired when they had bought up a small label, Autumn Records. Autumn Records was a San Francisco-based label whose main producer, Sly Stone, had now moved on to other things after producing the hit record "Laugh Laugh" for the Beau Brummels: [Excerpt: The Beau Brummels, "Laugh Laugh"] The Beau Brummels  had had another hit after that and were the main reason that Warners had bought the label, but their star was fading a little. Stone had also been mentoring several other groups, including the Tikis and the Mojo Men, who all had potential. Waronker gathered around himself a sort of brains trust of musicians who he trusted as songwriters, arrangers, and pianists -- Randy Newman, the session pianist Leon Russell, and Van Dyke Parks. Their job was to revitalise the career of the Beau Brummels, and to make both the Tikis and the Mojo Men into successes. The tactic they chose was, in Waronker's words, “Go in with a good song and weird it out.” The first good song they tried weirding out was in late 1966, when Leon Russell came up with a clarinet-led arrangement of Paul Simon's "59th Street Bridge Song (Feeling Groovy)" for the Tikis, who performed it but who thought that their existing fanbase wouldn't accept something so different, so it was put out under another name, suggested by Parks, Harpers Bizarre: [Excerpt: Harpers Bizarre, "Feeling Groovy"] Waronker said of Parks and Newman “They weren't old school guys. They were modern characters but they had old school values regarding certain records that needed to be made, certain artists who needed to be heard regardless. So there was still that going on. The fact that ‘Feeling Groovy' was a number 10 hit nationwide and ‘Sit Down, I Think I Love You'  made the Top 30 on Western regional radio, that gave us credibility within the company. One hit will do wonders, two allows you to take chances.” We heard "Sit Down, I Think I Love You" last episode -- that's the song by Parks' old friend Stephen Stills that Parks arranged for the Mojo Men: [Excerpt: The Mojo Men, "Sit Down, I Think I Love You"] During 1966 Parks also played on Tim Buckley's first album, as we also heard last episode: [Excerpt: Tim Buckley, "Aren't You the Girl?"] And he also bumped into Brian Wilson on occasion, as they were working a lot in the same studios and had mutual friends like Loren Daro and Danny Hutton, and he suggested the cello part on "Good Vibrations". Parks also played keyboards on "5D" by the Byrds: [Excerpt: The Byrds, "5D (Fifth Dimension)"] And on the Spirit of '67 album for Paul Revere and the Raiders, produced by the Byrds' old producer Terry Melcher. Parks played keyboards on much of the album, including the top five hit "Good Thing": [Excerpt: Paul Revere and the Raiders, "Good Thing"] But while all this was going on, Parks was also working on what would become the work for which he was best known. As I've said, he'd met Brian Wilson on a few occasions, but it wasn't until summer 1966 that the two were formally introduced by Terry Melcher, who knew that Wilson needed a new songwriting collaborator, now Tony Asher's sabbatical from his advertising job was coming to an end, and that Wilson wanted someone who could do work that was a bit more abstract than the emotional material that he had been writing with Asher. Melcher invited both of them to a party at his house on Cielo Drive -- a house which would a few years later become notorious -- which was also attended by many of the young Hollywood set of the time. Nobody can remember exactly who was at the party, but Parks thinks it was people like Jack Nicholson and Peter and Jane Fonda. Parks and Wilson hit it off, with Wilson saying later "He seemed like a really articulate guy, like he could write some good lyrics". Parks on the other hand was delighted to find that Wilson "liked Les Paul, Spike Jones, all of these sounds that I liked, and he was doing it in a proactive way." Brian suggested Parks write the finished lyrics for "Good Vibrations", which was still being recorded at this time, and still only had Tony Asher's dummy lyrics,  but Parks was uninterested. He said that it would be best if he and Brian collaborate together on something new from scratch, and Brian agreed. The first time Parks came to visit Brian at Brian's home, other than the visit accompanying Crosby the year before, he was riding a motorbike -- he couldn't afford a car -- and forgot to bring his driver's license with him. He was stopped by a police officer who thought he looked too poor to be in the area, but Parks persuaded the police officer that if he came to the door, Brian Wilson would vouch for him. Brian got Van Dyke out of any trouble because the cop's sister was a Beach Boys fan, so he autographed an album for her. Brian and Van Dyke talked for a while. Brian asked if Van Dyke needed anything to help his work go smoothly, and Van Dyke said he needed a car. Brian asked what kind. Van Dyke said that Volvos were supposed to be pretty safe. Brian asked how much they cost. Van Dyke said he thought they were about five thousand dollars. Brian called up his office and told them to get a cheque delivered to Van Dyke for five thousand dollars the next day, instantly earning Van Dyke's loyalty. After that, they got on with work. To start with, Brian played Van Dyke a melody he'd been working on, a melody based on a descending scale starting on the fourth: [Plays "Heroes and Villains" melody] Parks told Wilson that the melody reminded him vaguely of Marty Robbins' country hit "El Paso" from 1959, a song about a gunfighter, a cantina, and a dancing woman: [Excerpt: Marty Robbins, "El Paso"] Wilson said that he had been thinking along the same lines, a sort of old west story, and thought maybe it should be called "Heroes and Villains". Parks started writing, matching syllables to Wilson's pre-conceived melody -- "I've been in this town so long that back in the city I've been taken for lost and gone and unknown for a long, long time" [Excerpt: Brian Wilson and Van Dyke Parks, "Heroes and Villains demo"] As Parks put it "The engine had started. It was very much ad hoc. Seat of the pants. Extemporaneous values were enforced. Not too much precommitment to ideas. Or, if so, equally pursuing propinquity." Slowly, over the next several months, while the five other Beach Boys were touring, Brian and Van Dyke refined their ideas about what the album they were writing, initially called Dumb Angel but soon retitled Smile, should be. For Van Dyke Parks it was an attempt to make music about America and American mythology. He was disgusted, as a patriot, with the Anglophilia that had swept the music industry since the arrival of the Beatles in America two and a half years earlier, particularly since that had happened so soon after the deaths both of President Kennedy and of Parks' own brother who was working for the government at the time he died. So for him, the album was about America, about Plymouth Rock, the Old West, California, and Hawaii. It would be a generally positive version of the country's myth, though it would of course also acknowledge the bloodshed on which the country had been built: [Excerpt: The Beach Boys, "Bicycle Rider" section] As he put it later "I was dead set on centering my life on the patriotic ideal. I was a son of the American revolution, and there was blood on the tracks. Recent blood, and it was still drying. The whole record seemed like a real effort toward figuring out what Manifest Destiny was all about. We'd come as far as we could, as far as Horace Greeley told us to go. And so we looked back and tried to make sense of that great odyssey." Brian had some other ideas -- he had been studying the I Ching, and Subud, and he wanted to do something about the four classical elements, and something religious -- his ideas were generally rather unfocused at the time, and he had far more ideas than he knew what to usefully do with. But he was also happy with the idea of a piece about America, which fit in with his own interest in "Rhapsody in Blue", a piece that was about America in much the same way. "Rhapsody in Blue" was an inspiration for Brian primarily in how it weaved together variations on themes. And there are two themes that between them Brian was finding endless variations on. The first theme was a shuffling between two chords a fourth away from each other. [demonstrates G to C on guitar] Where these chords are both major, that's the sequence for "Fire": [Excerpt: The Beach Boys, "Mrs. O'Leary's Cow/Fire"] For the "Who ran the Iron Horse?" section of "Cabin Essence": [Excerpt: The Beach Boys, "Cabinessence"] For "Vegetables": [Excerpt: The Beach Boys, "Vegetables"] And more. Sometimes this would be the minor supertonic and dominant seventh of the key, so in C that would be Dm to G7: [Plays Dm to G7 fingerpicked] That's the "bicycle rider" chorus we heard earlier, which was part of a song known as "Roll Plymouth Rock" or "Do You Like Worms": [Excerpt: The Beach Boys, "Bicycle Rider"] But which later became a chorus for "Heroes and Villains": [Excerpt: The Beach Boys, "Heroes and Villains"] But that same sequence is also the beginning of "Wind Chimes": [Excerpt: The Beach Boys, "Wind Chimes"] The "wahalla loo lay" section of "Roll Plymouth Rock": [Excerpt: The Beach Boys, "Roll Plymouth Rock"] And others, but most interestingly, the minor-key rearrangement of "You Are My Sunshine" as "You Were My Sunshine": [Excerpt: The Beach Boys, "You Were My Sunshine"] I say that's most interesting, because that provides a link to another of the major themes which Brian was wringing every drop out of, a phrase known as "How Dry I Am", because of its use under those words in an Irving Berlin song, which was a popular barbershop quartet song but is now best known as a signifier of drunkenness in Looney Tunes cartoons: [Excerpt: Daffy Duck singing "How Dry I Am" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ap4MMn7LpzA ] The phrase is a common one in early twentieth century music, especially folk and country, as it's made up of notes in the pentatonic scale -- it's the fifth, first, second, and third of the scale, in that order: [demonstrates "How Dry I Am"] And so it's in the melody to "This Land is Your Land", for example, a song which is very much in the same spirit of progressive Americana in which Van Dyke Parks was thinking: [Excerpt: Woody Guthrie, "This Land is Your Land"] It's also the start of the original melody of "You Are My Sunshine": [Excerpt: Jimmie Davis, "You Are My Sunshine" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yYvgNEU4Am8] Brian rearranged that melody when he stuck it into a minor key, so it's no longer "How Dry I Am" in the Beach Boys version, but if you play the "How Dry I Am" notes in a different rhythm, you get this: [Plays "He Gives Speeches" melody] Which is the start of the melody to "He Gives Speeches": [Excerpt: The Beach Boys, "He Gives Speeches"] Play those notes backwards, you get: [Plays "He Gives Speeches" melody backwards] Do that and add onto the end a passing sixth and then the tonic, and then you get: [Plays that] Which is the vocal *countermelody* in "He Gives Speeches": [Excerpt: The Beach Boys, "He Gives Speeches"] And also turns up in some versions of "Heroes and Villains": [Excerpt: The Beach Boys, "Heroes and Villains (alternate version)"] And so on. Smile was an intricate web of themes and variations, and it incorporated motifs from many sources, both the great American songbook and the R&B of Brian's youth spent listening to Johnny Otis' radio show. There were bits of "Gee" by the Crows, of "Twelfth Street Rag", and of course, given that this was Brian Wilson, bits of Phil Spector. The backing track to the verse of "Heroes and Villains": [Excerpt: The Beach Boys, "Heroes and Villains"] Owed more than a little to a version of "Save the Last Dance For Me" that Spector had produced for Ike and Tina Turner: [Excerpt: Ike and Tina Turner, "Save the Last Dance For Me"] While one version of the song “Wonderful” contained a rather out-of-place homage to Etta James and “The Wallflower”: [Excerpt: “Wonderful (Rock With Me Henry)”] As the recording continued, it became more and more obvious that the combination of these themes and variations was becoming a little too much for Brian.  Many of the songs he was working on were made up of individual modules that he was planning to splice together the way he had with "Good Vibrations", and some modules were getting moved between tracks, as he tried to structure the songs in the edit. He'd managed it with "Good Vibrations", but this was an entire album, not just a single, and it was becoming more and more difficult. David Anderle, who was heading up the record label the group were looking at starting, would talk about Brian playing him acetates with sections edited together one way, and thinking it was perfect, and obviously the correct way to put them together, the only possible way, and then hearing the same sections edited together in a different way, and thinking *that* was perfect, and obviously the correct way to put them together. But while a lot of the album was modular, there were also several complete songs with beginnings, middles, ends, and structures, even if they were in several movements. And those songs showed that if Brian could just get the other stuff right, the album could be very, very, special. There was "Heroes and Villains" itself, of course, which kept changing its structure but was still based around the same basic melody and story that Brian and Van Dyke had come up with on their first day working together. There was also "Wonderful", a beautiful, allusive, song about innocence lost and regained: [Excerpt: The Beach Boys, "Wonderful"] And there was CabinEssence, a song which referenced yet another classic song, this time "Home on the Range", to tell a story of idyllic rural life and of the industrialisation which came with westward expansion: [Excerpt: The Beach Boys, "CabinEssence"] The arrangement for that song inspired Van Dyke Parks to make a very astute assessment of Brian Wilson. He said later "He knew that he had to adhere to the counter-culture, and I knew that I had to. I think that he was about as estranged from it as I was.... At the same time, he didn't want to lose that kind of gauche sensibility that he had. He was doing stuff that nobody would dream of doing. You would never, for example, use one string on a banjo when you had five; it just wasn't done. But when I asked him to bring a banjo in, that's what he did. This old-style plectrum thing. One string. That's gauche." Both Parks and Wilson were both drawn to and alienated from the counterculture, but in very different ways, and their different ways of relating to the counterculture created the creative tension that makes the Smile project so interesting. Parks is fundamentally a New Deal Liberal, and was excited by the progresssive nature of the counterculture, but also rather worried about its tendency to throw the baby out with the bathwater, and to ignore the old in pursuit of the new. He was an erudite, cultured, sophisticated man who thought that there was value to be found in the works and attitudes of the past, even as one must look to the future. He was influenced by the beat poets and the avant garde art of the time, but also said of his folk music period "A harpist would bring his harp with him and he would play and recite a story which had been passed down the generations. This particular legacy continued through Arthurian legend, and then through the Middle Ages, and even into the nineteenth century. With all these songs, half of the story was the lyrics, and the folk songs were very interesting. They were tremendously thought-driven songs; there was nothing confusing about that. Even when the Kingston Trio came out -- and Brian has already admitted his debt to the Kingston Trio -- 'Tom Dooley', the story of a murder most foul 'MTA' an urban nightmare -- all of this thought-driven music was perfectly acceptable.  It was more than a teenage romantic crisis." Brian Wilson, on the other hand, was anything *but* sophisticated. He is a simple man in the best sense of the term -- he likes what he likes, doesn't like what he doesn't like, and has no pretensions whatsoever about it. He is, at heart, a middle-class middle-American brought up in suburbia, with a taste for steaks and hamburgers, broad physical comedy, baseball, and easy listening music. Where Van Dyke Parks was talking about "thought-driven music", Wilson's music, while thoughtful, has always been driven by feelings first and foremost. Where Parks is influenced by Romantic composers like Gottschalk but is fundamentally a craftsman, a traditionalist, a mason adding his work to a cathedral whose construction started before his birth and will continue after his death, Wilson's music has none of the stylistic hallmarks of Romantic music, but in its inspiration it is absolutely Romantic -- it is the immediate emotional expression of the individual, completely unfiltered. When writing his own lyrics in later years Wilson would come up with everything from almost haiku-like lyrics like "I'm a leaf on a windy day/pretty soon I'll be blown away/How long with the wind blow?/Until I die" to "He sits behind his microphone/Johnny Carson/He speaks in such a manly tone/Johnny Carson", depending on whether at the time his prime concern was existential meaninglessness or what was on the TV. Wilson found the new counterculture exciting, but was also very aware he didn't fit in. He was developing a new group of friends, the hippest of the hip in LA counterculture circles -- the singer Danny Hutton, Mark Volman of the Turtles, the writers Michael Vosse and Jules Siegel, scenester and record executive David Anderle -- but there was always the underlying implication that at least some of these people regarded him as, to use an ableist term but one which they would probably have used, an idiot savant. That they thought of him, as his former collaborator Tony Asher would later uncharitably put it, as "a genius musician but an amateur human being". So for example when Siegel brought the great postmodern novelist Thomas Pynchon to visit Brian, both men largely sat in silence, unable to speak to each other; Pynchon because he tended to be a reactive person in conversation and would wait for the other person to initiate topics of discussion, Brian because he was so intimidated by Pynchon's reputation as a great East Coast intellectual that he was largely silent for fear of making a fool of himself. It was this gaucheness, as Parks eventually put it, and Parks' understanding that this was actually a quality to be cherished and the key to Wilson's art, that eventually gave the title to the most ambitious of the complete songs the duo were working on. They had most of the song -- a song about the power of music, the concept of enlightenment, and the rise and fall of civilisations: [Excerpt: The Beach Boys, "Surf's Up"] But Parks hadn't yet quite finished the lyric. The Beach Boys had been off on tour for much of Brian and Van Dyke's collaboration, and had just got back from their first real tour of the UK, where Pet Sounds had been a smash hit, rather than the middling success it had been in the US, and "Good Vibrations" had just become their first number one single. Brian and Van Dyke played the song for Brian's brother Dennis, the Beach Boys' drummer, and the band member most in tune with Brian's musical ambitions at this time. Dennis started crying, and started talking about how the British audiences had loved their music, but had laughed at their on-stage striped-shirt uniforms. Parks couldn't tell if he was crying because of the beauty of the unfinished song, the humiliation he had suffered in Britain, or both. Dennis then asked what the name of the song was, and as Parks later put it "Although it was the most gauche factor, and although maybe Brian thought it was the most dispensable thing, I thought it was very important to continue to use the name and keep the elephant in the room -- to keep the surfing image but to sensitise it to new opportunities. One of these would be an eco-consciousness; it would be speaking about the greening of the Earth, aboriginal people, how we had treated the Indians, taking on those things and putting them into the thoughts that come with the music. That was a solution to the relevance of the group, and I wanted the group to be relevant." Van Dyke had decided on a title: "Surf's Up": [Excerpt: The Beach Boys, "Surf's Up"] As the group were now back from their tour, the focus for recording shifted from the instrumental sessions to vocal ones. Parks had often attended the instrumental sessions, as he was an accomplished musician and arranger himself, and would play on the sessions, but also wanted to learn from what Brian was doing -- he's stated later that some of his use of tuned percussion in the decades since, for example, has come from watching Brian's work. But while he was also a good singer, he was not a singer in the same style as the Beach Boys, and they certainly didn't need his presence at those sessions, so he continued to work on his lyrics, and to do his arrangement and session work for other artists, while they worked in the studio. He was also, though, starting to distance himself from Brian for other reasons. At the start of the summer, Brian's eccentricity and whimsy had seemed harmless -- indeed, the kind of thing he was doing, such as putting his piano in a sandbox so he could feel the sand with his feet while he wrote, seems very much on a par with Maureen Cleave's descriptions of John Lennon in the same period. They were two newly-rich, easily bored, young men with low attention spans and high intelligence who could become deeply depressed when understimulated and so would get new ideas into their heads, spend money on their new fads, and then quickly discard them. But as the summer wore on into autumn and winter, Brian's behaviour became more bizarre, and to Parks' eyes more distasteful. We now know that Brian was suffering a period of increasing mental ill-health, something that was probably not helped by the copious intake of cannabis and amphetamines he was using to spur his creativity, but at the time most people around him didn't realise this, and general knowledge of mental illness was even less than it is today. Brian was starting to do things like insist on holding business meetings in his swimming pool, partly because people wouldn't be able to spy on him, and partly because he thought people would be more honest if they were in the water. There were also events like the recording session where Wilson paid for several session musicians, not to play their instruments, but to be recorded while they sat in a pitch-black room and played the party game Lifeboat with Jules Siegel and several of Wilson's friends, most of whom were stoned and not really understanding what they were doing, while they got angrier and more frustrated. Alan Jardine -- who unlike the Wilson brothers, and even Mike Love to an extent, never indulged in illegal drugs -- has talked about not understanding why, in some vocal sessions, Brian would make the group crawl on their hands and knees while making noises like animals: [Excerpt: The Beach Boys, "Heroes and Villains Part 3 (Animals)"] As Parks delicately put it "I sensed all that was destructive, so I withdrew from those related social encounters." What this meant though was that he was unaware that not all the Beach Boys took the same attitude of complete support for the work he and Brian had been doing that Dennis Wilson -- the only other group member he'd met at this point -- took. In particular, Mike Love was not a fan of Parks' lyrics. As he said later "I called it acid alliteration. The [lyrics are] far out. But do they relate like 'Surfin' USA,' like 'Fun Fun Fun,' like 'California Girls,' like 'I Get Around'? Perhaps not! So that's the distinction. See, I'm into success. These words equal successful hit records; those words don't" Now, Love has taken a lot of heat for this over the years, and on an artistic level that's completely understandable. Parks' lyrics were, to my mind at least, the best the Beach Boys ever had -- thoughtful, intelligent, moving, at times profound, often funny, often beautiful. But, while I profoundly disagree with Love, I have a certain amount of sympathy for his position. From Love's perspective, first and foremost, this is his source of income. He was the only one of the Beach Boys to ever have had a day job -- he'd worked at his father's sheet metal company -- and didn't particularly relish the idea of going back to manual labour if the rock star gig dried up. It wasn't that he was *opposed* to art, of course -- he'd written the lyrics to "Good Vibrations", possibly the most arty rock single released to that point, hadn't he? -- but that had been *commercial* art. It had sold. Was this stuff going to sell? Was he still going to be able to feed his wife and kids? Also, up until a few months earlier he had been Brian's principal songwriting collaborator. He was *still* the most commercially successful collaborator Brian had had. From his perspective, this was a partnership, and it was being turned into a dictatorship without him having been consulted. Before, it had been "Mike, can you write some lyrics for this song about cars?", now it was "Mike, you're going to sing these lyrics about a crow uncovering a cornfield". And not only that, but Mike had not met Brian's new collaborator, but knew he was hanging round with Brian's new druggie friends. And Brian was behaving increasingly weirdly, which Mike put down to the influence of the drugs and these new friends. It can't have helped that at the same time the group's publicist, Derek Taylor, was heavily pushing the line "Brian Wilson is a genius". This was causing Brian some distress -- he didn't think of himself as a genius, and he saw the label as a burden, something it was impossible to live up to -- but was also causing friction in the group, as it seemed that their contributions were being dismissed. Again, I don't agree with Mike's position on any of this, but it is understandable. It's also the case that Mike Love is, by nature, a very assertive and gregarious person, while Brian Wilson, for all that he took control in the studio, is incredibly conflict-avoidant and sensitive. From what I know of the two men's personalities, and from things they've said, and from the session recordings that have leaked over the years, it seems entirely likely that Love will have seen himself as having reasonable criticisms, and putting them to Brian clearly with a bit of teasing to take the sting out of them; while Brian will have seen Love as mercilessly attacking and ridiculing the work that meant so much to him in a cruel and hurtful manner, and that neither will have understood at the time that that was how the other was seeing things. Love's criticisms intensified. Not of everything -- he's several times expressed admiration for "Heroes and Villains" and "Wonderful" -- but in general he was not a fan of Parks' lyrics. And his criticisms seemed to start to affect Brian. It's difficult to say what Brian thinks about Parks' lyrics, because he has a habit in interviews of saying what he thinks the interviewer wants to hear, and the whole subject of Smile became a touchy one for him for a long time, so in some interviews he has talked about how dazzlingly brilliant they are, while at other times he's seemed to agree with Love, saying they were "Van Dyke Parks lyrics", not "Beach Boys lyrics". He may well sincerely think both at the same time, or have thought both at different times. This came to a head with a session for the tag of "Cabinessence": [Excerpt: The Beach Boys, "Cabinessence"] Love insisted on having the line "over and over the crow flies uncover the cornfield" explained to him, and Brian eventually decided to call Van Dyke Parks and have him come to the studio. Up to this point, Parks had no idea that there was anything controversial, so when Brian phoned him up and very casually said that Mike had a few questions about the lyrics, could he come down to the studio? He went without a second thought. He later said "The only person I had had any interchange with before that was Dennis, who had responded very favorably to 'Heroes and Villains' and 'Surf's Up'. Based on that, I gathered that the work would be approved. But then, with no warning whatsoever, I got that phone call from Brian. And that's when the whole house of cards came tumbling down." Parks got to the studio, where he was confronted by an angry Mike Love, insisting he explain the lyrics. Now, as will be, I hope, clear from everything I've said, Parks and Love are very, very, *very* different people. Having met both men -- albeit only in formal fan-meeting situations where they're presenting their public face -- I actually find both men very likeable, but in very different ways. Love is gregarious, a charmer, the kind of man who would make a good salesman and who people use terms like "alpha male" about. He's tall, and has a casual confidence that can easily read as arrogance, and a straightforward sense of humour that can sometimes veer into the cruel. Parks, on the other hand, is small, meticulously well-mannered and well-spoken, has a high, precise, speaking voice which probably reads as effeminate to the kind of people who use terms like "alpha male", and the kind of devastating intelligence and Southern US attention to propriety which means that if he *wanted* to say something cruel about someone, the victim would believe themselves to have been complimented until a horrific realisation two days after the event. In every way, from their politics to their attitudes to art versus commerce to their mannerisms to their appearance, Mike Love and Van Dyke Parks are utterly different people, and were never going to mix well. And Brian Wilson, who was supposed to be the collaborator for both of them, was not mediating between them, not even expressing an opinion -- his own mental problems had reached the stage where he simply couldn't deal with the conflict. Parks felt ambushed and hurt, Love felt angry, especially when Parks could not explain the literal meaning of his lyrics. Eventually Parks just said "I have no excuse, sir", and left. Parks later said "That's when I lost interest. Because basically I was taught not to be where I wasn't wanted, and I could feel I wasn't wanted. It was like I had someone else's job, which was abhorrent to me, because I don't even want my own job. It was sad, so I decided to get away quick." Parks continued collaborating with Wilson, and continued attending instrumental sessions, but it was all wheelspinning -- no significant progress was made on any songs after that point, in early December. It was becoming clear that the album wasn't going to be ready for its planned Christmas release, and it was pushed back to January, but Brian's mental health was becoming worse and worse. One example that's often cited as giving an insight into Brian's mental state at the time is his reaction to going to the cinema to see John Frankenheimer's classic science fiction horror film Seconds. Brian came in late, and the way the story is always told, when he was sat down the screen was black and a voice said from the darkness, "Hello Mr. Wilson". That moment does not seem to correspond with anything in the actual film, but he probably came in around the twenty-four minute mark, where the main character walks down a corridor, filmed in a distorted, hallucinatory manner, to be greeted: [Excerpt: Seconds, 24:00] But as Brian watched the film, primed by this, he became distressed by a number of apparent similarities to his life. The main character was going through death and rebirth, just as he felt he was. Right after the moment I just excerpted, Mr. Wilson is shown a film, and of course Brian was himself watching a film. The character goes to the beach in California, just like Brian. The character has a breakdown on a plane, just like Brian, and has to take pills to cope, and the breakdown happens right after this: [Excerpt: Seconds, from about 44:22] A studio in California? Just like where Brian spent his working days? That kind of weird coincidence can be affecting enough in a work of art when one is relatively mentally stable, but Brian was not at all stable. By this point he was profoundly paranoid -- and he may have had good reason to be. Some of Brian's friends from this time period have insisted that Brian's semi-estranged abusive father and former manager, Murry, was having private detectives watch him and his brothers to find evidence that they were using drugs. If you're in the early stages of a severe mental illness *and* you're self-medicating with illegal drugs, *and* people are actually spying on you, then that kind of coincidence becomes a lot more distressing. Brian became convinced that the film was the work of mind gangsters, probably in the pay of Phil Spector, who were trying to drive him mad and were using telepathy to spy on him. He started to bar people who had until recently been his friends from coming to sessions -- he decided that Jules Siegel's girlfriend was a witch and so Siegel was no longer welcome -- and what had been a creative process in the studio degenerated into noodling and second-guessing himself. He also, with January having come and the album still not delivered, started doing side projects,  some of which, like his production of tracks for photographer Jasper Daily, seem evidence either of his bizarre sense of humour, or of his detachment from reality, or both: [Excerpt: Jasper Daily, "Teeter Totter Love"] As 1967 drew on, things got worse and worse. Brian was by this point concentrating on just one or two tracks, but endlessly reworking elements of them. He became convinced that the track "Fire" had caused some actual fires to break out in LA, and needed to be scrapped. The January deadline came and went with no sign of the album. To add to that, the group discovered that they were owed vast amounts of unpaid royalties by Capitol records, and legal action started which meant that even were the record to be finished it might become a pawn in the legal wrangling. Parks eventually became exasperated by Brian -- he said later "I was victimised by Brian Wilson's buffoonery" -- and he quit the project altogether in February after a row with Brian. He returned a couple of weeks later out of a sense of loyalty, but quit again in April. By April, he'd been working enough with Lenny Waronker that Waronker offered him a contract with Warner Brothers as a solo artist -- partly because Warners wanted some insight into Brian Wilson's techniques as a hit-making producer. To start with, Parks released a single, to dip a toe in the water, under the pseudonym "George Washington Brown". It was a largely-instrumental cover version of Donovan's song "Colours", which Parks chose because after seeing the film Don't Look Back, a documentary of Bob Dylan's 1965 British tour, he felt saddened at the way Dylan had treated Donovan: [Excerpt: George Washington Brown, "Donovan's Colours"] That was not a hit, but it got enough positive coverage, including an ecstatic review from Richard Goldstein in the Village Voice, that Parks was given carte blanche to create the album he wanted to create, with one of the largest budgets of any album released to that date. The result was a masterpiece, and very similar to the vision of Smile that Parks had had -- an album of clever, thoroughly American music which had more to do with Charles Ives than the British Invasion: [Excerpt: Van Dyke Parks, "The All Golden"] But Parks realised the album, titled Song Cycle, was doomed to failure when at a playback session, the head of Warner Brothers records said "Song Cycle? So where are the songs?" According to Parks, the album was only released because Jac Holzman of Elektra Records was also there, and took out his chequebook and said he'd release the album if Warners wouldn't, but it had little push, apart from some rather experimental magazine adverts which were, if anything, counterproductive. But Waronker recognised Parks' talent, and had even written into Parks' contract that Parks would be employed as a session player at scale on every session Waronker produced -- something that didn't actually happen, because Parks didn't insist on it, but which did mean Parks had a certain amount of job security. Over the next couple of years Parks and Waronker co-produced the first albums by two of their colleagues from Waronker's brains trust, with Parks arranging -- Randy Newman: [Excerpt: Randy Newman, "I Think It's Going to Rain Today"] And Ry Cooder: [Excerpt: Ry Cooder, "One Meat Ball"] Waronker would refer to himself, Parks, Cooder, and Newman as "the arts and crafts division" of Warners, and while these initial records weren't very successful, all of them would go on to bigger things. Parks would be a pioneer of music video, heading up Warners' music video department in the early seventies, and would also have a staggeringly varied career over the years, doing everything from teaming up again with the Beach Boys to play accordion on "Kokomo" to doing the string arrangements on Joanna Newsom's album Ys, collaborating with everyone from U2 to Skrillex,  discovering Rufus Wainwright, and even acting again, appearing in Twin Peaks. He also continued to make massively inventive solo albums, releasing roughly one every decade, each unique and yet all bearing the hallmarks of his idiosyncratic style. As you can imagine, he is very likely to come up again in future episodes, though we're leaving him for now. Meanwhile, the Beach Boys were floundering, and still had no album -- and now Parks was no longer working with Brian, the whole idea of Smile was scrapped. The priority was now to get a single done, and so work started on a new, finished, version of "Heroes and Villains", structured in a fairly conventional manner using elements of the Smile recordings. The group were suffering from numerous interlocking problems at this point, and everyone was stressed -- they were suing their record label, Dennis' wife had filed for divorce, Brian was having mental health problems, and Carl had been arrested for draft dodging -- though he was later able to mount a successful defence that he was a conscientious objector. Also, at some point around this time, Bruce Johnston seems to have temporarily quit the group, though this was never announced -- he doesn't seem to have been at any sessions from late May or early June through mid-September, and didn't attend the two shows they performed in that time. They were meant to have performed three shows, but even though Brian was on the board of the Monterey Pop Festival, they pulled out at the last minute, saying that they needed to deal with getting the new single finished and with Carl's draft problems. Some or all of these other issues almost certainly fed into that, but the end result was that the Beach Boys were seen to have admitted defeat, to have handed the crown of relevance off to the San Francisco groups. And even if Smile had been released, there were other releases stealing its thunder. If it had come out in December it would have been massively ahead of its time, but after the Beatles released Sgt Pepper it would have seemed like it was a cheap copy -- though Parks has always said he believes the Beatles heard some of the Smile tapes and copied elements of the recordings, though I don't hear much similarity myself. But I do hear a strong similarity in "My World Fell Down" by Sagittarius, which came out in June, and which was largely made by erstwhile collaborators of Brian -- Gary Usher produced, Glen Campbell sang lead, and Bruce Johnston sang backing vocals: [Excerpt: Sagittarius, "My World Fell Down"] Brian was very concerned after hearing that that someone *had* heard the Smile tapes, and one can understand why. When "Heroes and Villains" finally came out, it was a great single, but only made number twelve in the charts. It was fantastic, but out of step with the times, and nothing could have lived up to the hype that had built up around it: [Excerpt: The Beach Boys, "Heroes and Villains"] Instead of Smile, the group released an album called Smiley Smile, recorded in a couple of months in Brian's home studio, with no studio musicians and no involvement from Bruce, other than the previously released singles, and with the production credited to "the Beach Boys" rather than Brian. Smiley Smile has been unfairly dismissed over the years, but it's actually an album that was ahead of its time. It's a collection of stripped down versions of Smile songs and new fragments using some of the same motifs, recorded with minimal instrumentation. Some of it is on a par with the Smile material it's based on: [Excerpt: The Beach Boys, "Wonderful"] Some is, to my ears, far more beautiful than the Smile versions: [Excerpt: The Beach Boys, "Wind Chimes"] And some has a fun goofiness which relates back to one of Brian's discarded ideas for Smile, that it be a humour album: [Excerpt: The Beach Boys, "She's Going Bald"] The album was a commercial flop, by far the least successful thing the group had released to that point in the US, not even making the top forty when it came out in September, though it made the top ten in the UK, but interestingly it *wasn't* a critical flop, at least at first. While the scrapping of Smile had been mentioned, it still wasn't widely known, and so for example Richard Goldstein, the journalist whose glowing review of "Donovan's Colours" in the Village Voice had secured Van Dyke Parks the opportunity to make Song Cycle, gave it a review in the New York Times which is written as if Goldstein at least believes it *is* the album that had been promised all along, and he speaks of it very perceptively -- and here I'm going to quote quite extensively, because the narrative about this album has always been that it was panned from the start and made the group a laughing stock: "Smiley Smile hardly reads like a rock cantata. But there are moments in songs such as 'With Me Tonight' and 'Wonderful' that soar like sacred music. Even the songs that seem irrelevant to a rock-hymn are infused with stained-glass melodies. Wilson is a sound sculptor and his songs are all harmonious litanies to the gentle holiness of love — post-Christian, perhaps but still believing. 'Wind Chimes', the most important piece on the album, is a fine example of Brian Wilson's organic pop structure. It contains three movements. First, Wilson sets a lyric and melodic mood ("In the late afternoon, you're hung up on wind chimes"). Then he introduces a totally different scene, utilizing passages of pure, wordless harmony. His two-and-a-half minute hymn ends with a third movement in which the voices join together in an exquisite round, singing the words, "Whisperin' winds set my wind chimes a-tinklin'." The voices fade out slowly, like the bittersweet afternoon in question. The technique of montage is an important aspect of Wilson's rock cantata, since the entire album tends to flow as a single composition. Songs like 'Heroes and Villains', are fragmented by speeding up or slowing down their verses and refrains. The effect is like viewing the song through a spinning prism. Sometimes, as in 'Fall Breaks and Back to Winter' (subtitled "W. Woodpecker Symphony"), the music is tiered into contrapuntal variations on a sliver of melody. The listener is thrown into a vast musical machine of countless working gears, each spinning in its own orbit." That's a discussion of the album that I hear when I listen to Smiley Smile, and the group seem to have been artistically happy with it, at least at first. They travelled to Hawaii to record a live album (with Brian, as Bruce was still out of the picture), taking the Baldwin organ that Brian used all over Smiley Smile with them, and performed rearranged versions of their old hits in the Smiley Smile style. When the recordings proved unusable, they recreated them in the studio, with Bruce returning to the group, where he would remain, with the intention of overdubbing audience noise and releasing a faked live album: [Excerpt: The Beach Boys, "California Girls [Lei'd studio version]"] The idea of the live album, to be called Lei'd in Hawaii, was scrapped, but that's not the kind of radical reimagining of your sound that you do if you think you've made an artistic failure. Indeed, the group's next albu

Jeff and Matt are joined by Howie Edelson to discuss Wild Honey, the 13th studio release from The Beach Boys. Howie is the creative consultant for The Beach Boys and their company, Brother Records, Inc. and brings a wealth of Beach Boys knowledge to today's discussion.Howie works with the band and their associates on all aspects of production for their archival releases, including the newly expanded Sounds of Summer, which is being released on June 17. Originally released in 2003 with 30 tracks, the new version now has 80 tracks, with 24 new mixes including four tracks that have been mixed in stereo for the first time.Edelson wrote the highly informative liner notes for the new collection, which uncover some fascinating history behind the songs. It was a lot of fun to dig into the history of Wild Honey with Howie, while also getting the skinny on what's coming up from the Beach Boys.Find more information about today's episode here in the show notes.If you enjoy these episodes, please consider supporting our Patreon by joining our Record Club. You'll receive access to numerous exclusive posts and bonus material related to the episodes. We greatly appreciate your support!Follow us @RecordPlayerPod and find an archive of the past episodes right here.

Adult friendships are hard and not always as consistent as they were growing up on the playground. Clare and LL discuss their 20 year friendship, the seasons of friendships, and when it might be time to let a friendship go. If you have any questions about this episode or want to get some of the resources we mentioned, head over to LesleyLogan.co/podcast. If you have any comments or questions about the Be It pod shoot us a message at beit@lesleylogan.co . And as always, if you're enjoying the show please share it with someone who you think would enjoy it as well. It is your continued support that will help us continue to help others. Thank you so much! Never miss another show by subscribing at LesleyLogan.co/subscribe.In this episode you will learn about:Q&A fire round with LL The difference between great friends and life friends Finding fulfillment through taking a step forwardDo you have friendship deal breakers? Are you afraid of the light or the power that may come in the light? Tulip tips…maybe for mothers day ;)  If you enjoyed this episode, make sure and give us a five star rating and leave us a review on iTunes, Podcast Addict, Podchaser or Castbox.ResourcesWatch the Be It Till You See It podcast on YouTube!Lesley Logan websiteBe It Till You See It PodcastOnline Pilates Classes by Lesley LoganOnline Pilates Classes by Lesley Logan on YouTubeProfitable PilatesSocial MediaInstagramFacebookLinkedInEpisode Transcript:Lesley Logan 0:01  Welcome to the Be It Till You See It podcast where we talk about taking messy action, knowing that perfect is boring. I'm Lesley Logan, Pilates instructor and fitness business coach. I've trained thousands of people around the world and the number one thing I see stopping people from achieving anything is self doubt. My friends, action brings clarity and it's the antidote to fear. Each week, my guests will bring Bold, Executable, Intrinsic and Targeted steps that you can use to put yourself first and Be It Till You See It. It's a practice, not a perfect. Let's get started.Welcome back to the Be It Till You See It interview recap where Clare and I are going to dig into the salty convo I had with Laurie Jabbar in our last episode. If you haven't yet, listen to that one, feel free to pause this now. Go back and listen to that one. Come back and join us. Definitely if you haven't figured out Clare is replacing Brad for this week and so you can hear another recap with her in an episode from last Thursday. But basically, you can listen to the episodes in whatever order you want. (Lesley laughs)Clare Solly 1:13  Has your husband been gone so long, you forgot his name? Is that what happened there? (Clare laughs)Yeah, yeah, no, that's true. (Lesley laughs) All right. Well, we are even though didn't say anything Brad is in Cambodia, everyone and he will technically when this episode is out, he's been back but he is there while we're recording. So here's the deal. In the time this episode drops, we are one week away from the 100th episode dropping.One hundred! (Lesley: Do you remember when I started it, why I started this?) I can't believe you're at 100 already. Like that's crazy. I remember when the first one came out, and we were just like so excited, like itching to hear it like so excited.Lesley Logan 1:52  I'm so excited. So much practice on like listening to my own voice because I actually on purpose. Don't watch any of my YouTube videos or any of my own classes. And I was like, "Oh, the podcast. I have to listen to it." (Lesley and Clare laughs) Anyways, y'all Clare and I have been friends since like 2001. (Clare: Yeah) Isn't that crazy. So I actually think it's really fitting for her to be on the episode recap with Laurie Jabbar because she has a pod, Laurie has a podcast with her friends. So, it's kind of fun. Anyways, we'll get into Laurie in just a second and what she does, but Clare do we have or are you, we have an audience question or are you hijacking?Clare Solly 2:32  I am totally hijacking. So, as I was thinking about coming on, I realized, like, again, we've been friends for 20 years, which seems crazy because neither of us looks old enough to be friends for 20 years. But, um, you know, a special bonus for those of you watching the YouTube. So I'm gonna give you a speed round of questions. (Lesley: Okay) I'm a like, I don't know if you can handle this because I don't know that you can pick one thing. But here we ... (Lesley: Do you know ... I'm on aquarius) And you're gonna explain everything.Lesley Logan 3:02  I know! I'm terrible at fire rounds. I'm terrible. Every every podcast that's ever had me on a set of fire round, I'm like, "Oh, they're gonna hate me after this."Clare Solly 3:08  I believe in you. I mean, I don't care. You can like everything. (Lesley: Okay, I will pick. I'll pick.) Okay, so here we go. I have six questions for you. Would you rather travel on an airplane or train? (Lesley: Airplane) Would you rather eat an orange or an apple?Lesley Logan 3:24  Apple, cut. (Clare: Okay. Tea or Coffee?) Coffee with oat milk.Clare Solly 3:30  Would you rather be given flowers or chocolate?Lesley Logan 3:34  Okay, I want the chocolate but it has to be vegan chocolate so not every brand is good. So, you know if you can't get me a real good vegan chocolate then by all means flowers Preferably ones that are not tulips because they fall over too quickly. (Clare: Would you rather swim in o... ocean a pool or lake?) I prefer a pool because honestly legs made me think of a brain amoeba and oceans the seaweed makes me think of souls from Ursula touching my body and grasping for life. I can't let it go. Clare Solly 4:11  Oh my gosh. And we lived by the beach for so long. (Lesley and Clare laughs)Lesley Logan 4:19  But I did buy or pay to live near the beach. I liked I liked the air.Clare Solly 4:23  Fair. Okay. If you could, this is the last one if you can only have one flavoring. Would you rather have salt, pepper or butter y... ?Lesley Logan 4:36  Oh, salt all the way. I I y'all Brad's a chef loving person he's someday he'll be (Clare: So good) his own chef and like I put salt on fucking everything and he is like, "You haven't even tasted it yet." Yeah, I'm like it's gonna use the salt.Clare Solly 4:51  You came to visit me in in December. And (Lesley: Yeah) he like I saw him take the salt and hide it. I was like, "No, let's just try it first." You're like, "Where's the salt?" He was like, "No just try it first."Lesley Logan 5:06  So I have had my blood tested several times. For whatever reason. It's like I don't retain salt and I crave it. I but I'm not a savory person. Like if you're like, "Are you sweet or savory?" Sweet, thank you! But like I love like a moist warm cookie brownie cake all of the things. And I can't eat like I like the pastry stuff like the baked goods. I like it. I like to chew my food. And anyway, I I so I went out and we found some like artisan salt and so I have lemon ginger and I have black truffle and I have white truffle and a black lava. I don't think it does anything. Anyways, I love a salt. And yes, you can have too much you'll know your gums won't like it but I put salt. But y'all I have found a vegan butter that is out of this world. It's they don't sponsor me but if anyone knows them, I would love to be their their spokesmodel I think it's pronounced Miyoko's. It I believe it's Japanese. And they have a butter that is so it tastes like butter. It tastes like butter. You put your knife in there and you it like tastes like butter. And they also have some other cheeses that I have just destroyed. I friggin love them. Like I didn't even know I love cheese until I found this place.Clare Solly 6:24  Oh, that's so good. And I have a tulip tip for you. But I'm gonna save it to the end of this recap, because we should start talking about Laurie Jabbar's. Lesley Logan 6:32  We should! And also it's right before Mother's Day and every person is going to need to know this tulip tip because (Clare: Yeah) you never know. Clare Solly 6:38  So stay tuned to the end. Um, it's it's you know, it's good. It's not earth shattering, but it's good. Um, so let's talk about Laurie Jabbar speaking of salt. She is a fiery, salty, opportunist. Laurie Jabbar grew her fireside chats with friends to a larger audience with a launch of her podcast. She's a 10 Times 5 with Lisa O'Coyne. Together, the duo is helping women recognize the amazing new opportunities that come in the new chapter of life.Lesley Logan 7:08  Yeah, they're so fun. We got one of the two of them. So we'll have to have the other half.Clare Solly 7:14  Wow Lisa! Yeah, yeah. And I mean, she was delightful. I loved this podcast, and what was one thing that you loved about it?Lesley Logan 7:22  So first of all, she is a badass, and she's got so many like chapters in her life, so worth learning about them. But one thing that she brought up that I think is really important is called great friends versus life friends. And you know, um, so I don't know who I don't know if it was like when you and I worked together or like when I heard like, there's friends for a season, a reason and a lifetime. But ...Clare Solly 7:46  I feel like that was on a pillow or a blanket your grandma gave you like, (Lesley: something like that) you said it a lot.Lesley Logan 7:52  Yeah. And I have, I guess I lost a lot of friends. You know? Well, first of all, I was you know, I talked about this in the week of Wild Honey on my Instagram post. But like, because my mom ran their daycares. I always had kids around me, but I I don't know that I always had like, you know, like, I had like one or two best friends on my block. That's who I you know, you'd like to, like knock on their door. And then, um, because in my I switched schools a lot. When my when I was younger, I actually had to make new friends often. And then by the time I got to high school, I had friends, like if you're listening to us, and you were like, we had lunch together, they were all lovely people. But I almost felt like are we all just hanging out because we're just hanging out, like no one was calling me and inviting me out to do anything. And I didn't feel like I could invite them out. So it was like, we're like lunch mates. And so I just feel like, if you're someone who has not had not had friends for ever, it's okay. Because there's great friends like great moments of time with people. And there's some like you and I came in, like, there's like we kind of like we talked about, (Clare: You have been ...) there's on our episode like we can't episode 19 everyone. We kind of like came in and then there was time apart. And then they came in, there's time apart. And like a life friend can be like that, because there's life happening.Clare Solly 9:05  Yeah, yeah. And you know, you are definitely not the person that I met. And we've grown apart, and we've grown back together. And it's, you know, it's very interesting, because there's so much focus on romantic relationships and how people grow apart or grow back together or whatever, but we don't focus on friendships. And those should have just as much of a focus of a relationship as as romantic ones do. And yeah, you build these life friendships and, you know, like the ride or die is one of those hot things to say right now like, and you know, you are definitely one of my ride or dies, like you are completely across the country from me, but I feel like if I called you and I was having a life crisis, you would be like, "Okay, give me a day. Give me 24 hours. I'm hopping on a plane, we'll figure it out." And ...Lesley Logan 9:57  Yeah same for you. I agree. (Clare: Yeah) And I think that I think that some people think that ride or dies have to be in your life all the time. And like, I don't actually think a ride or die is like that. That's just like, that's a character of someone who loves you no matter what. And you know, that's it doesn't I think you're right. I love that you brought this up. There's so many books and movies about romantic relationships and how they been together. But there's so few of like, how does a friendship become a friendship? And like, is it okay to just like text every week? And then everyone's will have a phone call? Yeah, that is the Yes, by the way. (Lesley and Clare laughs) The answer is yes. So, (Clare: Yeah) so I think it's like, you know, important for people to just explore like, it's okay, if you had a great friend. And it may not be over forever, but maybe the, maybe the chapter is closed there. And then there's the life friends, the people who, you know, come in and out, or maybe they're there every single week. I hope that for you, you know, Brad has those people. You know, but the fact that you and I have been pretty good at slingshotting each other for 21 years. (Clare: Yeah ...) Our friendship needs a drink. (Clare: Our friendship is legal enough to drink. Cheers.) Cheers! What's something that you love, she said.Clare Solly 9:58  I loved that she said, take a step forward, that will bring you closer to fulfillment. And I like that a lot of a lot of what you talk about on this pod, a lot of a lot of the bold, intrinsic, actionable things that you talk about are, you know, what are small things you can do or what are ways you can just start to move forward. And I really liked the word fulfillment because if, if anything we've learned in the last couple of years, we need to figure out how to fulfill ourselves and fill our own cup first and fill our own lives first. (Lesley: Yeah) Because you know, you and I have talked about this, you're you're a recovering perfectionist, (Lesley: Yeah) I'm a recovering people pleaser. And what was that I said the other day? It doesn't matter. Well, I'll get I'll catch up to it. And (Lesley: Yeah ...) it's like I've have spent so much of my life trying to figure out how to make other people happy. Like I grew up with, you know, 50s hostess, grandmother and middle child mother who was always in the middle of of ar... all the arguments. And so she you know, she was the one that was like, "Okay, how can I, how can I keep everybody calm?" And, you know, I'm a child of divorce. And so like, my parents got divorced when I was little. So, like, fulfillment is a big a big lesson I've been learning like, lately, and it's like, what can I do for myself and only for myself, and it feels so narcissistic and so, so solitary, and whatever. And it seems funny for me to say that because I'm a single person, I'm 42 years old, single, happily single. But at the same time, like doing something, just for me, that's not for my job. That's not (Lesley: Yeah) for my group of friends to make them happy that like, for any other re... for my theatre companies, like something that makes me happy. And that's a that's a hard thing to find. Right? That doesn't feel you know, like something that will help move you forward in your life that also isn't like so... Anyway, the what she said ...Lesley Logan 13:32  Yeah, I really understand. And I think that that's, I think that it's beca... that's a sometimes you have to play like I'm hobby hunting, if everyone's been listening. The past episodes, like finding what fulfills you is its own, is its own journey.Clare Solly 13:47  This cracks me up about you, because I feel like po... like pause on the fulfillment for a second. I mean, it's the same thing. But it's like, you are a hobby hunter like you do all the things you just decide you want to go do something and then you like, learn how to do it and you go do it like an inch, just like ...Lesley Logan 14:02  I am doing that. I'm just trying to see like, if they're, you know, like Brad, Brad sits on each week and writes music and like (Clare: Yeah) some people like knit or they do these things and I want something that I do that's not for work and I don't get paid for. And I'm just trying to figure out what that thing is. And I you know, I may turn out to be like I have all the hobbies in the world that I need but I'm on this like mission of like, "What what do I do that's for for fun."Clare Solly 14:33  But I feel like every hobby that you've ever had that I've known of you've turned into (Lesley: I know ...) some sort of business ... (Lesley: I can't help myself) I think we talked about this on my episode but like Lesley wave and back in the day and I we made this she she had taken a pair of shoes and decolletage them. And wait, did we? I don't know. (Lesley: I think we both did our own pair). Yeah, we did and like and then we decided to make it into a business (Lesley: Yes.) And like Pilates for or you was a hobby to begin with. And then it became your business and then like ...Lesley Logan 15:06  I know and then like coaching and then that became a business and I know. I'm really I'm really am trying to find something that I don't like that I don't I probably end up getting sold who knows you know everything I touch turns to gold whatever. (Lesley laughs)Clare Solly 15:22  Yeah but also like that's all the like the epitome of Be It Till You See It. Right? (Lesley: Yeah.) Like just ... (Lesley: Yeah.)Lesley Logan 15:30  Anyways, you know I do I do like the fulfillment thing I think that's worth exploring and something that fulfillment also is gonna give us alignment. And like you can also (Clare: Yeah) like if you're struggling with like, if you think that filling your cup first is narcissistic, then like ask yourself if you're just in alignment or not. Because that might be like the easier route into being a little selfish.Clare Solly 15:50  Yeah, well, being selfish isn't a bad thing. (Lesley: No) If you're selfish all the time (Lesley: Yeah.) then it's not good. I mean, anything all the time is not good. Lesley Logan 16:00  Correct! Correct! Okay, well, I love it. That's also true. That's another episode. Okay, what do we got next, Clare?Clare Solly 16:11  Um, so we should probably I'm going to take over Brad's role again, and say this, because I've practiced it. So, so my favorite Be It action item was understand what is important for you in a friendship and the deal breakers. Which is that one has been a difficult thing for me, because, like, you know how I love people, I will throw myself into friendships, I'll throw myself into relationships. And, like, you have to figure out what the deal breakers are like. And it can't be that like the small things, right? Like, it can't be like, "Oh my gosh, this person likes tequila and I like rum." Like it's not, you know, I mean, it goes ...Lesley Logan 16:52  Go to a regular bar, both people can be happy.Clare Solly 16:54  Well like, I had a friend who was a negative talker, like everything this person said, was negative, negative, negative. And they would make fun of themselves. And they would make fun of everybody else. And they were judgmental. And I just felt, and I didn't realize it until later on in the relationship. But I felt a black cloud every time I hung out with this person. And I felt so like, they made me feel really good by making everything else look terrible. And I was like, this is not a good relationship to be in. Because then I found myself getting ready to go hang out with them or talk to them by trying to like, figure out things I could say about other people or things I could like, up my up and myself, like, wear something like really, you know, I don't know, that made me feel really, really good. Because I didn't want to be the ridicule of the evening. And I was I just realized I was like, I don't need to be around this person. Like they're so negative. I'm such a positive person. I'm an upbeat person. I love everybody's snowflake edges. I love encouraging people to do things. And I didn't need to stand around judging them and picking on them. So I (Lesley: Right) just sort of stepped away from that friendship eventually and and walked away.Lesley Logan 18:16  I think that's a really important thing. Like if you have, like, this is something that I did when I was trying to figure out like dating, like, what are my deal breakers? Because I was, as we know, because Clare and I had a blog at the time, I was on a mission. I was like, I keep dating the wrong person. So we are trying on different genes. And what are the red flags? And what what are deal breakers for me. And so this is the same thing that goes for friendships, though, like you're in some sort of, you're in an interesting version of a relationship. It's not a marriage necessarily, like legally binding, but like, you know, it is something to understand. And if you find yourself avoiding someone's text, you probably don't be friends with them. You should have a conversation. Let it go. I don't know why as women, we tend to keep people we think we should keep people around like I teach so many women's sessions and every time there's a bachelorette party, there's always like, I don't know why this person's like been around for 17 years as a friend and it's like, oh my God, ladies, let go of the person like have or at least have the honest conversation that says, "Hey, when you do this, it really bothers me." (Clare: Yeah) And then if they can't change that, then that is them. It's not you. You don't have to keep them around for 17 years. Like just know it. So that's (Clare: Yeah) a Be It action item. Everyone should do it. Okay. Especially (Clare: What was your ...) if your ... especially if your friend was making you feel like a dark cloud. Can you imagine like what was keeping you from being every time you had that's like a hangover? (Clare: Yeah) Only have tequila hangovers, only. (Clare laughs)Clare Solly 19:40  Well, and definitely, like, understand what you need in a friendship too, right. Like, I think the reason you and I have have have been so successful in our friendship, you know, I coined the phrase, slingshot friend. And again, we don't see each other all the time. We don't talk all the time, but you'll come and you'll be like, "Hey," you'll bounce an idea off of me, or you'll tell me that you're doing something and I'll be like, "Oh my gosh, that's great and amazing." And you head forward with it. And then, like, I'll come to you and say something, and you'll be like, "Oh my gosh, that's great. Here's some resources. Here are 10 podcasts and two books you should read." And ... (Lesley and Clare laughs)Lesley Logan 20:17  I have my own library. (Clare: That's why I like you) Oh, my God, I should have a search engine. Maybe that's my new new hobby. (Lesley and Clare laughs) (Clare: Hold on, I don't understand what that means. Let me Lesley Logan it.) Let's do it. And also it would only show good things. Only good things.Clare Solly 20:36  I love it. Oh my God. (Lesley and Clare laughs)Lesley Logan 20:38  Brad, are you listening? Write that down. Okay ...Clare Solly 20:41  Speaking on good things. What was your favorite BE IT action item?Lesley Logan 20:44  Okay. My my BE IT action item that I really liked, it's, she said, "Don't be afraid of the light... Don't be afraid of the light to show you great things." And I this made me think of Marianne Williamson. And she, she talks about how most people are actually afraid of their power. So that's why I don't know the exact quote. But there's this whole quote, she's very powerful. Everyone just read it. But basically, she's like, it's most of us like are more comfortable setting in the, in the fear and the and the overwhelm and in a story that we're not good enough. And we're actually afraid because we actually are afraid of stepping into light, we're actually afraid of the power. And I actually think that so many people are looking for signs everywhere. Like if it's a good idea to do this, or good idea to do that and like the light is there. And you're like "hmmm" let me put on some sunglasses on, look over here and see if the answers over here. Because maybe what it's showing you is something that scares you. Maybe it's showing you some of that, like, you're like, "Oh my God," because you have to become something that you're not ... get... guess what, you have to, to keep you growing, you become something you weren't already. So I just really, I thought that was a really lovely BE IT action item. And I haven't heard that from anybody, in any (Clare: Yeah) other version. So I just really liked. I like ...Clare Solly 22:01  Yeah, well, and I like at the time we're recording this. I'm living that right now. Like I have two options, two very clear options in front of me. And you and I've talked a lot this week. And like you've been, you know, I've been bouncing off of you between these two options. And it's, it's now very clear which one to take. Because even though it's the one that I'm a little more afraid of, because the other one hasn't is not showing up as much as I want it to. And this one is very much like, "Hello, I'm here." And it's still like here, we're paving the way keep coming ...Lesley Logan 22:35  Yeah. Come to the light, everyone comes. You know (Clare: Yeah) like do you remember? Is it a bug's life? Like all the bugs are they don't, they're like, are like, "It's so powerful. It's the glow." Like bugs are literally going to the light and all of us are like, "No, no." But like in the opposite effect. The light is not a zapper, the light is actually like the showing you where the next step is.Clare Solly 22:56  Yeah, well, and it's weird too, because we sit around and we think that we're not deserving of things. And we, like I know, oh, that was the thing I was gonna think of earlier. I've lived in such a chaotic world for so long that if if my world isn't chaotic, I will create the drama. Like I will, I will bring up drama in my life just because I understand how to how to survive and drama. And it's like, no, no, you can just stand in the light and enjoy it. Like you can go stand outside in the sunshine and enjoy it. You can you can be, you can take the choice that is very obvious. And it's it's fine.Lesley Logan 23:05  Yeah, (Clare: And that was ...) I hear you because I think everyone listen to this. Like maybe you too are like, "Oh, that's me." If you're someone who's like Clare that like the chaos and the drama is actually something that feels more comfortable. Go back to last week's episode, we had Clare and ask yourself like, where did you learn that chaos and drama were actually safe and fun and enjoyable? And try to unpack that. And maybe you do that with a therapist, or maybe you do the journaling. And she'll teach you... Clare had a great point about journaling in the last episode ... (Clare laughs) So um, yeah, I think that's really great. So Clare, thank you for being here for two weeks in a row. We have you back for one more recap while we're recording things and Brad is gone. But before I let you go, two things, you have a tip on tulips?Clare Solly 24:20  Yes, I do. So tulips. So if you take your vase or whatever you have and you take just generic clear tape and you make a grid with it across so you do like a back ... (Lesley: Oh) and put a stripe across and a stripe across, the stripe across and then you do it the opposite way. And you can, the skinnier tape is better just scotch tape. That's what it is. Scotch tape. The skinnier like three quarters of an inch is better. And just leave yourself little holes in there to put the tulips in and then just make sure you also tape around the outside of the vase to keep all of those those tapes down (Lesley: ... yeah) and then that will create little holes in the vase (Lesley: Yeah) to put the flowers in and that will keep them upright. I mean it's still going to kind of do the wilty thing on you but that will keep them in ...Lesley Logan 25:16  So I thought you want to talk about sprite because if you put sprite in the water, tulips love it, apparently like something with sugar. (Clare: Yeah) So if you do sprite and her grid I think your tulips are gonna look phenomenal for Mother's Day. (Clare and Lesley laughs) (Clare: Here you go) Here we are just making new flower segments on the Be It Till You See It podcast. (Clare: So you too can be a flower arranger.) I actually that is on my hobby hunting list, by the way is to go to to watch a flower arranging class ... (Clare: Be like that would be a good one for you.) I think it is so fun. Actually in town, there is a place where you take you do do flower arranging both real and both dried. (Clare: Yeah) And it's by the way, it's they don't sponsor the show. It's called Tiny Bloom. If you're in Las Vegas, go check them out that Ferguson's downtown shop local. Anyways, but I really I think I'm excited about that. So everyone thank you for letting Clare be a guest for Brad if you have liked her being a guest you should also just let us know. Do you want other guests in for Brad? Are you are you missing Brad to this be ... (Clare: Probably you pick me) Is it is truffle? It's a truffle. Like a nonsexual truffle. (Lesley laughs)Clare Solly 26:26  I would totally be a potty truffle with you. (Clare laughs)Lesley Logan 26:30  Oh my God. The time were in Spain we had to share a bed with one of my girlfriends also married and so I'm asleep in the middle and I pee like at least two times a night and I my bladder was going to explode. Everyone my dogs are not okay with this whole recording without Brad situation. So in the episodes if you're moaning, moaning, groaning, whining, flapping or what's happening on that door, they are perfectly fine. Do not call rescue. We have got there more than comfortable. She is just wanting to go out. So I'm Lesley Logan. (Lesley laughs) (Clare: I'm Clare Solly.) (Clare laughs) Thank you so much. How are you going to use these tips in your life today? Like what are you going to do? What's your favorite BE IT action item and tag us. Tag @youwontbesolly which is Clare, the @be_it_pod. And also Laurie Jabbar, @shesa10times5 on the BE IT action that you're gonna do or the talking point that reflected the most on you, and then share it to your Instagram account or send it to a friend. You have no idea how amazing it is if you send to a friend, you are this podcast because it does help us grow, one lesson at a time. And with that, you should Be It Till You See It because I gotta let Gaia out. (Lesley laughs) Thanks, everyone.That's all I got for this episode of the Be It Till You See It podcast. One thing that would help both myself and future listeners is for you to rate the show and leave a review. And follow or subscribe for free wherever you listen to your podcasts. Also, make sure to introduce yourself over at the @be_it_pod on Instagram. I would love to know more about you. Share this episode with whoever you think needs to hear it. Help us and others BE IT TILL YOU SEE IT. Have an awesome day!'Be It Till You See It' is a production of 'As The Crows Fly Media'.Brad Crowell 28:19  It's written, produced, filmed and recorded by your host Lesley Logan and me, Brad Crowell. Our Associate Producer is Amanda Frattarelli.Lesley Logan 28:30  Kevin Perez at Disenyo handles all of our audio editing.Brad Crowell 28:35  Our theme music is by Ali at APEX Production Music. And our branding by designer and artist, Gianfranco Cioffi.Lesley Logan 28:43  Special thanks to our designer Jaira Mandal for creating all of our visuals (which you can't see because this is a podcast) and our digital producer, Jay Pedroso for editing all videos each week so you can.Brad Crowell 28:56  And to Angelina Herico for transcribing each of our episodes so you can find them on our website. And, finally to Meridith Crowell for keeping us all on point and on time.Transcribed by https://otter.aiSupport this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/be-it-till-you-see-it/donationsAdvertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brandsPrivacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy

Welcome to HOOVERING, the podcast about eating. Host, Jessica Fostekew (Guilty Feminist, Motherland) has a frank conversation with an interesting person about gobbling; guzzling; nibbling; scoffing; devouring and wolfing all up… or if you will, hoovering.I'm only bloody taking Tim Key for a Michelin starred lunch. Life's quite smashing sometimes isn't it? If you're new to him, he's a poet, comedian, actor and writer - currently knocking it out of the park in Witchfinder on BBC iplayer. We went to Wild Honey at St James because they had a pig's head on the menu but thankfully not on the day we actually went. Everything written below in CAPITALS is a link to the relevant webpage. Honourable Mentions/ LinksGet Tim's books and see him live at once VIA HIS WEBSITE. He's on INSTAGRAM here and please please please watch him in WITCHFINDER. Love this podcast generally? Thank you. FOLLOW US ON INSTAGRAMGo to PATREON to see what I swap your money for ace podcast related stuff like totally exclusive content and guest recipes and most recently the Hoovering Fourth Birthday party whole special episode! Come and WENCH in WELLS, or at EDINBURGH or ON TOUR? Also great! We ate at WILD HONEY at ST JAMESWe also mentioned a TWIX, a KEEMA NAAN and KINGFISHER lager. The masterful DAISY MAY COOPERHere is his love-letter to London in TIMEOUTAnd last but best, this is a SPINNEYSupport this show http://supporter.acast.com/hoovering. See acast.com/privacy for privacy and opt-out information.

Let's welcome Clare Solly to the Be It Pod as a guest co-host while Brad is away. As best friends, Clare and LL giggle their way through dieting, journaling, and reiterating the importance of changing the conversation around health. If you have any questions about this episode or want to get some of the resources we mentioned, head over to LesleyLogan.co/podcast. If you have any comments or questions about the Be It pod shoot us a message at beit@lesleylogan.co . And as always, if you're enjoying the show please share it with someone who you think would enjoy it as well. It is your continued support that will help us continue to help others. Thank you so much! Never miss another show by subscribing at LesleyLogan.co/subscribe.In this episode you will learn about:The ESSENTIAL, must have travel items The line between health and obsessionIt comes down to controlWe have to change how we feel to change the conversation How you start journaling Episode References/Links:Clare Solly on IG  If you enjoyed this episode, make sure and give us a five star rating and leave us a review on iTunes, Podcast Addict, Podchaser or Castbox.ResourcesWatch the Be It Till You See It podcast on YouTube!Lesley Logan websiteBe It Till You See It PodcastOnline Pilates Classes by Lesley LoganOnline Pilates Classes by Lesley Logan on YouTubeProfitable PilatesSocial MediaInstagramFacebookLinkedInEpisode Transcript:Lesley Logan 0:01  Welcome to the Be It Till You See It podcast where we talk about taking messy action, knowing that perfect is boring. I'm Lesley Logan, Pilates instructor and fitness business coach. I've trained thousands of people around the world and the number one thing I see stopping people from achieving anything is self doubt. My friends, action brings clarity and it's the antidote to fear. Each week, my guests will bring Bold, Executable, Intrinsic and Targeted steps that you can use to put yourself first and Be It Till You See It. It's a practice, not a perfect. Let's get startedWelcome back to the Be It Till You See It interview recap where my co host is my best friend, Clare Solly. And hi, we're gonna dig into the robust conversation I had with Jenny Schatzle in our last episode. If you haven't yet listened to that episode, feel free to do whatever you want to take in the information. I'm going to be honest, you got to listen to it, you should listen to all the guests. But like, there's something so fire about her that we all need to listen to. And then you can come back and join us or you can do it backwards, you know, like CliffNotes. So anyways, really quick, this we are coming up on like, like two weeks away from 100 episodes. So everyone, first all... (Clare: one hundred) one hundred. So first of all, thank you so much. Oh my God, we couldn't do 100 episodes without you because I would just be talking to myself. Second, so there's going to be a giveaway so be watching the Instagram, because you can win a really awesome basket of all these goodies and some money. So check that out. And then this Saturday, if you're listening to real time. One of our OPC teachers is teaching her first workout and workshop at onlinepilatesclasses.com. She's doing a Jump Board Workout. And then she's doing a Jump Board Workshop. You don't have to be a teacher to join. It's just going to be a lot of fun. And then you're going to learn all the things you can nerd out for your own practice or for other people's practice. And that's all on onlinepilatesclasses.com. Okay, Clare, normally I asked Brad, if we have an audience question, but I felt like maybe since you're our guests, you should get to ask whatever you want.Clare Solly 2:19  Since I'm I'm stealing the co host seat from Brad while he's away. (Lesley: Yeah) Yeah. So Lesley, I know that you and Brad travel a lot. And I want to know, because I know a lot about you. But I want to know what is like the one travel thing whether it's an actual tangible thing or something you do to prepare. What is the one travel thing you can't live without? (Lesley: Oh) I know it's a good one. Right?Lesley Logan 2:52  This is really good. Okay. I need to pick one? Hmm hmm. So ...Clare Solly 2:59  I'll give you two if you want. (Lesley: Yeah) You can have two.Lesley Logan 3:01  Okay, here's what I, first of all like pre pandemic, I was a woman who like knew how to pack in 17 minutes. And, also because Brad and I would trade wearing the same hat because like I would have clean hair on the way there and then (Lesley laughs) I have the dirty hair on the way back so I would wear his hat. And it said like Yogi something Jerome's Little Yogi and it's bright yellow hat. And so honestly, if it was pre pandemic, I would say that that is like our we can't live without hat. It comes with everywhere so much still that Global Entry just recognized us because who comes through the yellow hat every other week? Oh, that's, that's us. (Lesley laughs) Anyways, um, no, what I'll say is I really really love a good moisturizer, a good ChapStick and a comfortable outfit because everything else you can figure out by Google all the things. But if you are not comfortable in the outfit that you're flying in, and you're skin is not moisturized your lips or not moisturized, you're going to be uncomfortable. (Clare: I agree with that.) It doesn't really matter. So that's my thing. Also, if I'm doing long flights because my food sensitivities, I do pack oatmeal. I packed oatmeal packets, just like the, you know this the tear-away one.Clare Solly 4:17  Oh yeah cuz the, the air, the flight attendants give you hot water ...Lesley Logan 4:21  They gave you hot water. Yeah, and I pack peanut butter packets, and then I pack a collagen packet. Well multiple because I packed those for my coffee. So when I fly to Southeast Asia, all the stuff it's like a 12 hour flight there's only like three meals. Sometimes I can't have any of them. Sometimes I can have one of them. So I just am like alright, we got carbs, we got fat, we got protein, boom, like, and it's this, it's a meal in a cup and I just make it and so that helps me when I, like when I'm on a long flight that I'm like I'm gonna need to eat something because I don't I don't like eating the powerbar. I am no longer 21 that isn't real food. I think given the episode we're talking about Jenny would agree. (Lesley laughs) No, no, she's like, we need to stop something was bad or good but we also can say what's real. (Lesley laughs) I can't, I can't with it, I can't, I'm too, I need, I need to chew my food, it needs to, I need a utensil of some kind. SoClare Solly 5:15  I love this. I love this because it's like, and I was ready for you to ask it for me back. And like, I love how like you want tangible things to make yourself comfortable. And I'm like, I need to download a meditation because I don't sleep on airplanes. (Lesley: Oh that's cool.) So, I download the meditation and I like and whether it's just sounds or something like that, and I just listened to the meditation and I can put it on repeat and kind of just zen out and it's almost as good as sleeping.Lesley Logan 5:40  You are reminding me because I also cannot sleep on plane because I can't sleep unless I'm laying down and mama (Clare: Yeah) ain't rich enough for first class yet, but we're gonna be it till we see it. And so Clare Solly 5:52  Medicine manifest that.Lesley Logan 5:54  Manifesting. So what I used to have the calm app since I no longer travel, I deleted that membership, because I would just use it to play Mat Mcconaughey nighttime story. His bedtime story, oh my gosh, when I flew to Brazil, I listened to it five times in a row. And so I'd wake up every time he'd stop talking. I put it back on and I just sleep. (Lesley laughs)Clare Solly 6:19  Oh my gosh. Well ... (Lesley: Like a baby.) since your podcast girl, LeVar Burton reads stories on his, like on his podcast and ...Lesley Logan 6:27  I should just download that. Then I don't have to get a new app. Genius. Clare, thank you so much. So you, so that's your essential one thing, you have to have (Clare: Yeah) the meditation.Clare Solly 6:35  I mean, I need snacks and gum and moisturizer too. But like the meditation app is like the one that I'm like, (Lesley: Yeah) I don't like to travel more than like an hour flight or two.Lesley Logan 6:45  You know what? I also find and this is actually I was listening to one of my favorite podcasts it's all women, they're talking about rom-coms or something like that, or mo... like oh, no that to me like movie airplane appropriate movies. And like the it was not my favorite female one but it's in the same companies podcast is called Love It or Leave It. And, and people were like, "Look, you should not be watching your Oscar winning movies on an airplane. You should be watching 90s rom-coms and watching how poorly they age but they put you to sleep and that's what you should be watching." (Lesley and Clare laughs) And I'm like, "I do that. I do that actually. I put on the Breakfast Club, Pretty Woman." It just them like, (Clare: Yeah) "Okay." (Lesley laughs) Anyways, I do miss it, Brad and my dad, you know, when I talked to them in Singapore, which is like four flights later. I said, "Oh, Singapore Airport has a movie theater." They're like, "We've seen them all. We've seen all the movies." (Lesley laughs) All right. Well, let's talk about Jenny Schatzle.Clare Solly 7:45  Yes, Jenny Schatzle. A woman on fire for changing the conversation around food, body image, the definition of health. Jenny Schatzle decided to change the structure of her gym, got rid of weight, weigh ins, restrictive diets, and instead equipped women to live intentionally and move their bodies with confidence. This conversation was so inspiring for me Lesley, I hope it was ins... as inspiring for you to talk to her as (Lesley: I love her) it was for me to listen to it ...Lesley Logan 8:14  I'm so glad. But I'm so glad you said that because like, you know it can be like not everybody wants to have this conversation. And not everyone's wants to hear, me to have this conversation with everyone but I do I wanted to bring her on because I really do believe in her mission and her message and when I said on the podcast like when I met her I was like, "This woman is on fire." She's like we seen her bio and more people need to hear what she's doing and she has been she has been some like sometimes my saving grace, her lives make me like her like little lives make me crack up. So, I'm glad you liked it.Clare Solly 8:49  Yeah, it was so good. Do you have one thing that you loved about talking with her?(Lesley: Yeah) One thing that you brought away from it. Lesley Logan 8:57  Yeah. I mean there's so many things we could talk about. Also like please everyone like I did say this in the podcast but scroll back through her like her lives and her reels because when her daughters are playing in their bedroom quietly and she thinks that they are like just being quiet little amazingness girls and she goes in and they use marker all over their faces. And it's picture day like I kid you not I cry, cry, cry. So anyways, I because I can just like I know that would have been my sister and I so like I know. But aside from all the comedy entertainment and but in the way she's really just being honest with all of us. I love when she talked about the line between health and obsession and I think this is a fine line. (Clare: Yeah) And I know for myself, just because of the the family I've had in my life and because I was picked up ... y'all who talked about like the people getting picked up to be a model from a mall. That was me. I was one of those people. And here I was ...Clare Solly 9:57  More than once. Right? (Lesley: More than once.) I feel like ... (Clare laughs)Lesley Logan 9:58  Yeah. Happen... I know and then I and then I did get picked up at the gym and I did model and, and also all every single one of those times, no matter how much self development I did, every single one of them sent me down a place that wasn't really, that took health from to obsession, because here I was at 13 being told I needed to lose weight. And then in high school, it happened again. And then actually like after college in my early 30s and I was too skinny for commercial, my commercial agent was like, "You're too skinny." And my modeling agents like, "You're not skinny enough." And I'm like, "Well, no one's booking me. So I'm not really sure which way to go." And so you know, and then because my stomach issues, some things, I thought I was doing the name of health. And then there's also the, you know, I got all the compliments in the world when I was 25 pounds lighter. And I look at those pictures. And that is not I mean, I'm sure I was pretty, it's great. It's fun, it was not though, you can see I'm tired, you can see, like, I am not sleeping, like just all these things. And so I I do feel like I struggled a lot through my 20s and to my mid 30s on health versus obsession. And now somebody asked me yesterday, I was getting a new tattoo everyone. And the woman was like, "How healthy are you?" And I said, "I don't, I don't know understand?" She's like, "Do you drink?" And I said, "Oh, yeah, I drink." So it was that the line? (Lesley and Clare laughs) But I think it's like, you know, everyone is wondering what that is? And I think it's different. I think, I don't know, I feel like the diff... the definition is what works for you. Like, is it keeping you from going on a trip? Like, can you travel? Can you have a meeting with people at work? Do you have to always bring your own food? You know, I don't know.Clare Solly 11:41  Yeah, and I mean, it's, it's interesting, too, because she mentioned about how your weight or control of your food was, was a control thing. And, you know, when we're feeling out of control, we go to our diet and our exercise and try to control that, because that's something that gets quick results (Lesley: Yeah) that, you know, we can cut something out, or we can add reps in or whatever. And we can, can get control over something like that. And it's, it's interesting to watch friends who are on diets or who are working out or in, you know, new workout routines, and you start to lose like that first 10 pounds, that first 20 pounds. And then they just keep going and they go overboard. Like (Lesley: Yeah) like, and it's, it's just like, you're gorgeous, like stop, or, you know, (Lesley: Yeah) like if you don't feel good, stop. Lesley Logan 12:32  Well, and there's so, so many factors to that there is the affirmations that come around with that, there is the maybe you're not getting results anywhere else in your life, and you're getting results there. So you just keep going. I think it's, you know, I think this is where having a, we'll talk about a little bit later, but having some sort of like journaling practice or having open conversations with friends, and really exploring because the more I got curious about like, why like there be... I remember I remember distinctly going, "Am I, am I still trying to get healthy with my stomach? Or am I, did I switch the goal to the goal switch me," you know, and so that really required a lot of thought. And then when this guy actually figured what was wrong with my stomach altogether. And I met another holistic doctor, and they were helping me and I was gaining weight, then I had to like actually have like, literally like almost like changing the chair conversation myself where I sat in one chair. And then I sat in another chair. And I sat in another chair because it was really hard for me to know that the weight I was gaining was actually really healthy and assigned that like I am in good health. Like I'm a, I'm doing good versus like the obsession of like keeping the compliments coming, you know, so it's different. And also, like for sure, as a person in the fitness world, like gaining weight is like something that can be really, that you start to tell yourself a lot of stories. So this is it's it's a complicated talking point. And wherever you are on the journey, it's not something that's not good or bad. That's what I think that Jenny was trying to say here, but I really do... well, have you explore like, is it really for the health or did you switch and it can happen in an instant. It's (Clare: Yeah) not like, you know, so anyways, what is one thing that you love that she said?Clare Solly 14:25  I loved that she said, and I'm gonna quote her we say things... because I had to rewind and like, it's like a hit me in the chest. And so I rewind, and I typed it out, like I hope this is exact. We say things because we think others are thinking it and we say it because we want them to know that we know and she was talking about how she had the client who called herself big. And this, oh, I felt a little teary right there. This hit home for me, because like Lesley you know we've met we've been in (Lesley: Yeah) person so many times. I am six feet tall and I am 282 pounds. If you look at me like from a distance if you look at pictures of me, I don't look like I weighed almost 300 pounds. I am very well proportioned. I am tall. I am beautiful. I'm I'm a frickin beauty queen. Like I ...Lesley Logan 15:20  I know you are. Did you... she does pageants. (Lesley and Clare laughs)Clare Solly 15:23  I do pageants. I am out in the world and being beautiful. But it took me a long time to get to the point where I, I didn't relate my size, with big and with my size with being fat because I'm a size 18. (Lesley: Yeah) And on me, it's it looks different than most people who are of size 18. And I'm not saying anything negative about anybody of any size, because I don't care what size you are. You're beautiful. (Lesley: Yeah) Like if you think you're beautiful, then you are. But this hit me so hard, because I was the person I used to make a joke. And I'd be like, "Yeah, I'm just fat." And people will be like, "What are you talking about? Like, (Lesley: Yeah) you're not fat." Like you've said it to me 100 times probably. (Lesley: Yeah) And I had to reform the way I said it because yeah, I was calling it out. I was being like, I was the elephant in the room. And I was saying, "Yeah, here I am." Um ...Lesley Logan 16:20  Right. So that no one else could like think it and like like, yeah, so like you could just call it out. So then it was like done and then then ... YeahClare Solly 16:27  Yeah, or worry about me because I was the bigger one in the room. Like, okay, like, I don't want people to feel uncomfortable because they think I might be uncomfortable.Lesley Logan 16:36  Yeah. And but also you saying that as a joke. Part of that maybe it's because you, I don't know. Like I don't put words in my mouth. But I also know so many women I have I have people in my pol... on OPC who do call themselves fat. And I think like, they they are reframing the word. And may we all you know, and I do think it really this is something that's like really important for all of us to understand, like I have had, I brought Amy Ledin and I brought on some other coaches and Jenny Schatzle at first, I was like, "No good or bad foods or just food." (Clare: Yeah) And then also like, this is it's the interesting thing that the media put in, like, how come we knew every models weight, and height and size, right, when they were like modeling, (Clare: Yeah) because you're six feet tall, there is a size six feet has to be, like (Clare: Yeah) you just like you'll fall over. And, and so I think like whether or not you feel comfortable, like owning the word right now that fat is fine. Like there's nothing wrong with that. It is all about us, like really recognizing that we have to change the conversation of how we feel about our bodies, because it is affecting everything we do. And it is affecting the next generation. And so I'm not an expert at this, but I really do want to keep learning it because I my grandmother was over 300 pounds. So I only knew people were on diets. I just thought all women were on diets (Clare: Yeah) my whole life, you know.Clare Solly 18:06  I mean, that's sort of our mother's generation, too. Like our (Lesley: Yeah) mothers and our grandmothers were always on diets. And I think the I think you too said this in this this podcast, like a diet isn't something, it's not meant to be a long term. Like it's, it's not meant to be ...Lesley Logan 18:21  Yeah. Well, technically a diet is how you eat. (Clare: Yeah) So we're all on diet of some kind, because it's like the way you eat. That's just like the definition that I could recall because I remember I said that I was on gluten free diet to my grandfather and he goes "You're too skinny to be on a diet" because he only ... and like, "No, it just means I can't have the gluten. That's just the diet label." And you know, I think I just remember I don't recall who said but there's a book rethinking thin and I when I discovered where the history of the of the female body came from, which is a cartoon character, it really stuck with me. And it also stuck with me when they did these like these studies like on which is kind of diet is better or the you know, what was the one where everyone's having bacon this before keto was the atkins. (Clare: atkins) Yeah, atkins. Y'all, I know my, I know my diets. I know what my grandma did. And, and, versus just moderation. And I just remember thinking, wow, if they've done all this, study all this stuff, and it's not changing based on the food you're eating, then there has to be something different. And I really do think it's how we feel about ourselves, and the conversation we have around what we're eating, and we have to stop working out as punishment for what we ate too (Clare: Yeah) everyone working (Clare: Yeah) out is it's own thing. It's not com... brought in on the food.Clare Solly 19:41  Yeah, well Jenny even said it's not the donut. It's the guilt around the donut. (Lesley: Yeah) So have the donut but don't feel guilty ...Lesley Logan 19:48  Right? It isn't so much more freeing. I can't wait to go have a doughnut... (Clare: Yeah) I don't have one. Ok whew. Clare Solly 19:53  Yeah. Well and you know, I gave myself permission a while ago to just eat something like just eat it. If I want it like, I know that I'm not going to go crazy and eat a whole bag of chips, but if that's what I'm craving, and that's what my body wants, I'm going to eat a whole bag of chips right now and then I'll be fine ...Lesley Logan 20:14  ... truffle one and also nothing wrong with the chips, right? The chips aren't good or bad. It's what you think around them and, and why you're, you know, like, it's just information like, why are you grabbing the whole bag? Brad bought some truffle chips, everyone. And I was like, "Oh, I'll just have one. I just need one." And I like had I was like, "You better hide the bag, because no one needs as much truffles about ..." (Lesley laughs) I was like, "Oh, this is so good, I'm gonna ruin my dinner."Clare Solly 20:41  Oh, I love a good truffle. (Lesley: I know) Speaking of Brad, I feel like I should say the thing that Brad usually says at this point. (Lesley: Yeah, here you go.) So let's talk about the BE IT action items. So what bold, executable, intrinsic or targeted action items (I practice that y'all) can we take away from your conversation with Jenny Schatzle?Lesley Logan 21:03  Well, why don't you jump on in. That's what Brad does.Clare Solly 21:05  Oh yeah. (Lesley and Clare laughs) We love you Brad. Mine was write it out. I loved how the two of you talked about journaling. And as a longtime listener of this pod. I wanted to jump in and give my thoughts on journalising, journalising.Lesley Logan 21:25  Journaling. Journalising? Journaling. Oh, that's a has its own word already. Okay. (Lesley laughs) I thought, I thought we're like making up a new word, which I love to do and Brad hates. But ... (Lesley and Clare laughs)Clare Solly 21:41  Okay, journaling. Because, you know, you've been talking about, how you've been doing The Artist's Way. I did The Artist's Way, a long, long, long time ago, I've been a big fan of journaling forever. And I love that you talked about journaling on this pod so much. But I always want to like shout it to the pod people or to the podcasters, the pod people, I'm making more words. It's my mudslides that I'm drinking ...Lesley Logan 21:58  Or it's poddies, right. Like, listen to you and a shout out to all the poddies. (Lesley laughs)Clare Solly 22:07  All the poddies. You got some poddies on this cast. (Lesley: Yeah) Um, that like, everybody's like, "What, how do I start journaling?" Or like, the big question when I'm journaling is how do I start? And like, I just remember when I did The Artist's Way, like, the big thing you do is just keep writing. Like, even if you write the three pages. I hate journaling. Journaling is stupid. I hate journaling. I mean, you don't want to be negative. But if that's all you're writing, just just keep writing it and just ... (Lesley: Well, that's be it it you see it).Lesley Logan 22:35  That's be it till you see it. You're like, "I hate this. I'm doing it because I know I want to write." (Lesley laughs)Clare Solly 22:41  And eventually ideas will start coming. And like I started doing that. And I wrote for two years and ended up writing a novel. So you never know what's going to come out of it. And again, that's a very BE IT moment. Right? So just write, who cares what you're writing. You could write your name over and over and just keep journaling. Anyway, that's mine ...Lesley Logan 23:01  I love it. I love that one. I couldn't agree more. Everyone, (Clare: Yeah) my dogs, I've got two of four in this room. And for whatever reason, ear flapping and no one likes the way the bed is set up. So ... (Clare: That's okay, you're single mom this week. It's fine.) I'm single dog mom this week. It's real. Everything you're hearing is real. Yes. And thank you for for explaining that again because I think people really need to hear that. They have to because I was that person whose therapist was like, "You should journal." And I said, "Okay, no problem. I got a journal." And then week later, I'm like, "So this journaling thing. What do you do? How do you journal?" And she's like, (Clare: Yeah. I'm not hater.) "Okay, you are too much of a perfectionist here. You just need to put a pen to the paper." So like she... shout out to her for calling me out on my stuff. All right, my favorite thing. Okay, this kind of come from the The Artist's Way stuff that I've been doing. But when she said, "Where did you learn that in your body, that your body wasn't good enough?" (Clare: Oh, yeah) This is a BE IT action item that she said at the end. And you all need to listen to this. And I need to rethink this. And we and maybe you ask yourself that a couple times. And if you've already like you're already like owning the body you're in like, "Hey, way to go. Sorry that we sound like we're behind the times. We are working on it. We are works in progress." And and I love this because whether or not you can just insert it so that you can also insert like where did you learn that you can't be an entrepreneur? Where did you learn that you can't be a good mom? Where did you learn that you can't be a good wife? Where did you learn that you can't be this? Asking that question of yourself is really going to actually get to the root of the problem because I have found that a lot of the things that I believe, the limiting beliefs I believe are other people's voices.Clare Solly 24:41  Yeah. Yeah. Isn't that crazy? (Lesley: Yeah) Crazy?Lesley Logan 24:45  Yeah. Yeah. So it's crazy. And also like, duh, of course that's where we all are. Everyone is just trying to do their best and sometimes harming others. And so anyways, I feel like please write that question down. She had so many BE IT action items though and Clare and I could probably go on forever because we we did before we hit record. (Lesley and Clare laughs)Clare Solly 25:07  Yeah, we forgot to give people the warning that they should probably turn their speed down to 1, 1.0 for this one. (Clare laughs)Lesley Logan 25:13  You know, what? Did you hear that on the Helaine episode, ladies this coming up and gentlemen, I'm sure that if you're good and listening. My my upcoming guests after the 100th episode, she's like, "I'm gonna really try to talk slow. So if I sound abnormally slow, I'm going to try to talk slow." And I said, "Oh, I'm not a good helper for you. I talk fast." So she's like, she's like, "We should probably set a episode. It's already a set .1 .25. So just adjust accordingly. (Lesley and Clare laughs)Clare Solly 25:13  I mean, I think Brad said it in the recap that y'all did of my of my podcast ... Clare laughs) They was like, no, they actually talked about that.Lesley Logan 25:29  Yeah, yeah, we do. She's and by the way, everyone we didn't have the star of the show. We probably should have. Clare Solly, we actually talked about on the episode that came out at the time that we're recording this, which was ... (Clare: 19) Yeah, so you're episode 19. And we talked about you several times. But especially on the Wild Honey episode, which number I can't remember, but it has just (Clare: Okay) come out the week of April the fourth. So yeah, okay. How are you going to use these tips in your life my love is like, tell us how you're gonna do it? Here's how you do that. You actually screenshot this episode, you tag me, you tag Clare Solly. Clare, what is your Instagram handle? It's in the show notes. But what it is ...Clare Solly 26:29  It is @youwontbesolly s o l l y. And that's my Instagram handle. While you w o n t ... b e s o l l y. Yeah and tag me. I would love it. Yeah, my challenge for you is to tag us.Lesley Logan 26:42  Yeah, she just offered you a challenge. So you tag her, tag the @be_it_pod and tag Jenny Schatzle with your BE IT action and takeaway that you're gonna keep after this episode. And also do like, share this with a friend who needs to hear it. If you have a friend who has been struggling with change in that conversation and how they feel about their body, how they feel about they eat, what they eat. Sometimes it's hard for you to talk to them, but sometimes like, they'll hear it from this episode. So share it, text it to them. It's how this podcast grows. It's also Jenny gets her message out to more people. So until next time, we'll catch on the next episode Be It Till You See It.That's all I got for this episode of the Be It Till You See It podcast. One thing that would help both myself and future listeners is for you to rate the show and leave a review. And follow or subscribe for free wherever you listen to your podcasts. Also, make sure to introduce yourself over at the @be_it_pod on Instagram. I would love to know more about you. Share this episode with whoever you think needs to hear it. Help us and others BE IT TILL YOU SEE IT. Have an awesome day!'Be It Till You See It' is a production of 'As The Crows Fly Media'.Brad Crowell 27:49  It's written produced, filmed and recorded by your host Lesley Logan and me, Brad Crowell. Our Associate Producer is Amanda Frattarelli.Lesley Logan 28:00  Kevin Perez at Disenyo handles all of our audio editing.Brad Crowell 28:04  Our theme music is by Ali at APEX Production Music. And our branding by designer and artist, Gianfranco Cioffi.Lesley Logan 28:13  Special thanks to our designer Jaira Mandal for creating all of our visuals (which you can't see because this is a podcast) and our digital producer, Jay Pedroso for editing all video each week so you can.Brad Crowell 28:25  And to Angelina Herico for transcribing each of our episodes so you can find them on our website. And, finally to Meridith Crowell for keeping us all on point and on time.Transcribed by https://otter.aiSupport this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/be-it-till-you-see-it/donationsAdvertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brandsPrivacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy

Brad is officially in Cambodia and Lesley is working to find her new hobby! This recap episode is all about making time for yourself and how to actually go about that in this crazy busy world. It's hard! Tune in for some tips to make time. If you have any questions about this episode or want to get some of the resources we mentioned, head over to LesleyLogan.co/podcast. If you have any comments or questions about the Be It pod shoot us a message at beit@lesleylogan.coAnd as always, if you're enjoying the show please share it with someone who you think would enjoy it as well. It is your continued support that will help us continue to help others. Thank you so much! Never miss another show by subscribing at LesleyLogan.co/subscribe.In this episode you will learn about:LL & Brad story of finding Lin The vulnerability of trying things you aren't the best at yetSticking to the plans that you make How are you investing in yourself? Letting someone you know you are thinking of them Episode References/Links:InstagramRetreatSend this to a friend: “Hey, I was just thinking about you. I hope everything's amazing." If you enjoyed this episode, make sure and give us a five star rating and leave us a review on iTunes, Podcast Addict, Podchaser or Castbox.ResourcesWatch the Be It Till You See It podcast on YouTube!Lesley Logan websiteBe It Till You See It PodcastOnline Pilates Classes by Lesley LoganOnline Pilates Classes by Lesley Logan on YouTubeProfitable PilatesSocial MediaInstagramFacebookLinkedInEpisode Transcript:Lesley Logan 0:01  Welcome to the Be It Till You See It podcast where we talk about taking messy action, knowing that perfect is boring. I'm Lesley Logan, Pilates instructor and fitness business coach. I've trained thousands of people around the world and the number one thing I see stopping people from achieving anything is self doubt. My friends, action brings clarity and it's the antidote to fear. Each week, my guests will bring Bold, Executable, Intrinsic and Targeted steps that you can use to put yourself first and Be It Till You See It. It's a practice, not a perfect. Let's get started.Welcome back to the Be It Till You See It interview recap where my co host in life, Brad and I are going to dig into the sweet and delightful convo I had with Wild Honey Band in our last episode. If you haven't yet listened to that interview, feel free to pause this now, go back and listen to that one and join us back here. Listen to this one, then listen to that one. You're gonna want to listen to all of them. Amanda and Brad listen to them three times. I mean, you know, it's go... I really loved them.Brad Crowell 1:12  They were fun. It was, I mean, they're there... I love their story of why they started a band.Lesley Logan 1:19  Oh my God, (Brad: And) also like, so I I just love that one girl didn't even have an instrument she played. (Brad: Yeah, yeah) She's like, "I'm gonna play the violin."Brad Crowell 1:29  Yeah. Actually, her story was also hilarious because she's like, "I guess I'm gonna not be the mom who sits in the back, and I'm gonna join all the 10 year olds to play violin." (Brad laughs)Lesley Logan 1:41  I know. She did that. She did do that.Brad Crowell 1:44  I think that's funny.Lesley Logan 1:44  I think it's great. I think more, you know, there's that whole like, thing about like Dance Moms. But this is like, she's not being a dance mom. She's like, "No, I'm just actually going to be in the class." Like, "I'm just (Brad: Yeah) gonna do this. So ...Brad Crowell 1:54  She's not living vicariously anymore. She's just doing it. (Lesley: She's just doing it.) Well, good for her, I think that's amazing.Lesley Logan 1:59  Yeah, they all were really amazing and I'm so grateful. And I also, I'm so excited that we had three people on. (Brad: Yeah, that was fun.) And you know, it was it was, I mean, they were gonna be in person together so that they could play a song for us live. But at any rate, we still got to do the song on the show, which is also super fun. So anyways, um, technically one this episode is out. It's gonna sound like it's happening now. But we're recording it before Brad goes to Cambodia. (Brad: Oh, yeah.) And so as of right now, he'll be in Cambodia.Brad Crowell 2:30  I'm in Cambodia.Lesley Logan 2:33  At least a few days by now. (Brad laughs)Brad Crowell 2:35  I will be in Cambodia. (Lesley: Mm-hmm) So yes.Lesley Logan 2:38  So Clare Solly, who was on episode 19 17 15. (Brad: I'm have to look.) She was in the teens. She is going to do some recaps with me, which is really going to be a lot of fun. You'll have to let us know.Brad Crowell 2:52  Yeah, 19 good memory.Lesley Logan 2:53  Dude, I'm like ... (Brad: I'm impressed.) Anyways, thank you. So so you're gonna hear another voice on the show for some of the recaps coming up because the show must go on whether Brad's in Cambodia or not. And it's 14 hours difference. And I'm not about to do a recording when we have the very rare overlap of daylight hours.Brad Crowell 3:15  Yeah, the well, I'll be gone for almost three weeks (Lesley: Yeah) with travel time. And so during those days, during those weeks, you know, you'll probably do a few episodes with Clare.Lesley Logan 3:29  Maybe a few episodes with Clare, that's gonna be a lot of fun. (Brad: Yeah) I'm probably not recording videos. I've been trying to figure out how I'm going to record classes while you're gone. And I'm pretty sure the camera will always be crooked. (Brad laughs) Because if you look at my rails, everyone, I am aware that it's crooked. It looks straight when I set it up, and then you look back and it's crooked. And I'm like, "You know what, we're just gonna wait till he gets back. It's just not gonna happen." So, you know, you don't have to be perfect. But anyways, I'm very excited that you're in Cambodia and you're fixing of our house with my dad.Brad Crowell 3:58  Yeah, your dad's gonna come with and we're gonna get to go see our, you know, the people there that we call family. Our tour guide, Trey Peach and her husband Rotta and, and then Rotta's parents. And and then also we are excited if you haven't heard us talk about this already. We have actually now begun sending our pseudo adopted girl (Lesley: Yeah) not adopted in any way. But (Lesley: Yeah) but in our minds, she's adopted girl, her name is Lin. And she's 13 and she's wicked smart.Lesley Logan 4:39  She's wicked, smart. (Brad: And ...) I can't say ... for Boston. She's so smart, y'all. And (Brad: Yeah and we decided to send her to school.) We met her real briefly, we met her in 2018. She had no idea that she like had us these two people going on a hunt to find her. (Brad: Yeah) (Brad laughs) We had to find her again because she knew five languages and she was nine years old and she could flip through them so quickly and I can't even flip through, I can't even talk to the housekeeper that quickly. I have to like, think about it. And she flipped through five languages and the average, the average Cambodian child only goes to school until sixth grade. (Brad: Yeah) And, and that's, you know, where stray Lin lives, she actually lives in a in a village, very close to the temples. And so those kids actually they can, they do go to school, but they often also work and they have to sell, because it's the only way their family can make money as if everyone's working.Brad Crowell 5:29  Yeah, even if they go to school. Maybe they go to school like Monday, Wednesday, Friday, or they go like Tuesday, Thursday, Saturday kind of thing. And they're really only there for like, a couple of hours, like two, three hours max, you know, and, and so they are getting some education, but it's not like going to school, the way that I grew up going to school five days a week, and I like, whatever, 9 10 months of the year and 9 10 months of the year. You know, that's definitely not how it happens over there. And we were able to enroll her in a school that is five days a week.Lesley Logan 6:02  Anyways, back to stray Lin (Brad laughs) our amazing adopted daughter, who's not really at all adopted, but actually so we actually found her in 2020, outside of of ...Brad Crowell 6:14  First time we met her was 2018. (Lesley: Yeah) Then we were on a hunt to try to reconnect with her.Lesley Logan 6:18  We couldn't find her. We ... (Brad: to two years) two years, two other retreat groups, we still didn't find her. The third retreat group that we had after we met her was the March of 2020. And we were using a rest stop a little bathroom stop that we never used before. I've read of all the tours we've done. And Brad saw her.Brad Crowell 6:34  Yeah, we got the bus and I and there was like, there was all these people like, "Hey, come by my shirts, (Lesley: Cuz we are also ...) I got all this stuff. " And there's like a dozen, a dozen vendors yelling at us. And we got everyone coming off our tour bus to use the bathroom. And ...Lesley Logan 6:48  We were the only retreaters, (Brad: Yeah) only tourists in the country. (Lesley laughs)Brad Crowell 6:52  Yeah, there was like nobody else but us to talk to. So everyone was like jumping on us, like, "Buy my stuff." Right? And I got off the bus and the group went ahead of me and I turned and I saw her and I was like, "Lin?" And I pointed at her and all of the vendors were like, "What the eerr?" Right. (Lesley: Yeah) They like, like, it was like everybody stopped yelling, and they like looked at me like, "How, how do you know? What?" And Lin looked at me like, "Who the hell are you? Why do you know my name?" Right? And I was like, "Is your name Lin?". And she she came up to me and we started to talk, I said "We met you two years ago." But at the temple, which is like a quarter mile up the road. So she wasn't far from where she apparently normally works and hangs out her stuff. And then Lesley was coming back from the bathroom. And I said, "I have someone to, to introduce to you." And and so Lin got a look like a little bit like, I ... (Lesley: She's like ...) only vaguely remember these people if there's anyting.Lesley Logan 7:52  ... no way she remembers us. (Brad: Yeah) And it's fine, because she sees thousands of tourists a year or even a month. And ...Brad Crowell 7:58  Yeah, I mean, there's four (Lesley: But we ...) and a half million people that go through Cambodian temples every year. (Lesley: Yeah) Now granted, it was March 2021 we ... No actually, so it had been full tourism (Lesley: Yeah) for the two years, like almost two years since we had met her for the first time. So there's a there's a very real chance that like 8 million people had gone through the temples since (Lesley: Yeah) we saw her last.Lesley Logan 8:21  And so we're like (Brad laughs) and so and we are like coming on hot. Like we're like, "We've been looking for you." (Brad: Right) Just poor girl like, "Oh my God, what are these Americans (Brad: Yeah, yeah) gonna do to me?" And ...Brad Crowell 8:31  But we connected her to our tour guide who like I said, we call her family Trey Peach. And we said, "Peach, can you please, you know, find out where she lives, like connect with her family, connect with her parents. We want to send her to school." And so you know, she they start speaking Khmer and all the things and Peach is like, "Okay, I know where she lives and I will go and introduce myself to the family. And we can figure it out." And we got all excited and then COVID (Lesley: The road is shut down.) Yeah, COVID shut all the schools down.Lesley Logan 9:00  So all the schools down, shut everything down. And so we basically have just been waiting for the schools to open up. But in the meantime, Trey Peach was talking with her, talk with her family, we found out she actually doesn't have parents.Brad Crowell 9:13  Yeah, we don't actually know the story behind that yet.Lesley Logan 9:15  No, but Brad gets to meet her (Brad: Yeah) and with my dad. And there's ... a new year while they're there. So I think you guys are gonna have so much fun. And I'm ...Brad Crowell 9:24  I'm a little worried, I need to brush up on my Khmer ... (Brad laughs)Lesley Logan 9:27  Well, you know what, maybe we can get stray Lin on the phone. And actually, we could teach her English, she can teach us Khmer. (Brad: Yeah, yeah) (Lesley laughs) Because also, I think for them as well not having tourists for two years, all of their language skills, everyone's language skills dropped. (Brad: I know.) So (Brad: crazy) including here, people are just only able to text, they cannot look people in the eye. (Brad laughs) So at any rate, I'm excited you're there. I am very sad that I don't get to hang out with her. But they'll be more time for that.Brad Crowell 9:52  Well, we'll be going back later this year, (Lesley: Yeah) you know, to actually go on it on a retreat. (Lesley: Yes) And y'all are welcome to come with us. It ...Lesley Logan 9:59  You better come with us. It's not a retreat if we go by ourselves. (Lesley laughs) Brad Crowell 10:01  Yeah, obviously, but it'll probab... the dates, the exact dates have not been chosen yet. But we're looking at like November. (Lesley: Yeah) And we would love to have you join us. If you want to get on the waitlist for that. You can do that at onlinepilatesclasses.com/retreats. (Lesley: Yeah, so do that. All right ...) I think it's singular, retreat. Anyway,Lesley Logan 10:22  Yeah, go to the show notes and just click it.Brad Crowell 10:24  Yeah. Do that. (Lesley: It will be credit down there.) It will be in the show notes.Lesley Logan 10:26  That's what Amanda does ...Brad Crowell 10:28  Yes. Amanda is our epic producer. (Lesley: Mm-hmm)Lesley Logan 10:32  Okay, so do we have a question?Brad Crowell 10:35  Yeah. So this week, we have a question that is re... very relevant to (Lesley: my stories) your your Instagram stories. So this morning, you posted some green popcorn.Lesley Logan 10:47  I did. Okay. So first of all, I think I need to buy gloves and now that, now that like about me ...Brad Crowell 10:55  The challenge is out. (Lesley: Yeah) Chopsticks. (Lesley: Chopsticks.)Lesley Logan 10:58  Okay. That's what he said, chopsticks. Okay. And also, that's less trash. You know what I just gave my, the link and I'm gonna see if she can do a chopsticks that she can do a chopsticks and I know it's possible ...Brad Crowell 11:09  ... this is like a thing. People eat chips with chopsticks out of the bag, so they reach into the bag with chopsticks. Oh, this is a whole thing.Lesley Logan 11:16  Okay, okay, well, anyways. (Brad: Don't you worry.) So here's the deal, one of our friends, she loves to create a menu whenever we go and so we were there at her house for New Year's eve. We're at Sue and Stevens ... house hunt for New Year's eve, and she created spirulina popcorn. And she just started this fun like appetizer and I freakin shutdown. (Brad: Hmm) And I was like, "I know you've got muscles. I know you have like, some incredible like seven courses. And I like ..."Brad Crowell 11:43  A muscles like from the ocean muscles. (Lesley: Yeah, yeah) Not like Brad's got muscles.Lesley Logan 11:47  Right. But I ate the popcorn. Like I ate it all. (Lesley laughs)Brad Crowell 11:51  Yeah, it was it was it was fantastic.Lesley Logan 11:53  My fingers were so green. But I ate it all. And I was like, "I need the recipe." And so we got the recipe and then we had people over in January ...Brad Crowell 12:00  Y'all, it's like it's a combination. So if you've never heard of spirulina, it is algae. Right? And it actually is healthy for your gut. And it has ... (Lesley: ... protein in it.) This spirulina has protein. Yeah. And then it has some type of yeast, which I'm drawing a blank on (Lesley: nutritional yeast) nutritional yeast. There's a (Lesley: garlic sauce) garlic powder. (Lesley: Oh, garlic powder.) There's onion powder. There's (Lesley: salt) salt and then and then a little bit of oil in there and you kind of mix it all up. And then it coats the popcorn. (Lesley: Yeah ...) And I realized, when I was making it last night, I was like it because of the oil and the yeast, it kind of like becomes like a big clump. And you have to like, really mix it in. So I was like, (Lesley: Oh, little cayenne) I felt like I was (Lesley: a little cayenne) Oh, lol that's right. There's a little bit of cayenne in there. So I was really, really like mixing this popcorn through the, the, the, the, the coating of the spirulina mixture that I made. And I realized that like I was treating the popcorn all delicate and then by the end of it, I was just like beating the popcorn to try to get it into the spirulina mix. (Brad laughs) And yeah, (Lesley: Anyways) it's it's got life.Lesley Logan 13:09  It's go... it's so good. (Brad: It's amazing.) And like if you have a really good containers, you can make, you can make a big batch and then like ...Brad Crowell 13:16  Yeah put them in like an airtight container. (Lesley: Mm-hmm) And it actually stores (Lesley: Oh my God) well for like days.Lesley Logan 13:22  I ate a whole bowl today. I took a picture and put it on Instagram. And now everybody wants that. So that's the recipe. Do it up. And you know what? It's like healthy popcorn. Like (Brad: Yeah, yeah) I remember putting those like shaker things on your like those little (Brad: Yeah, the fake cheese.) the fake cheese or the kettle corn or whatever ... (Brad: or a ranch, whatever) This is like your, it's so healthy. (Brad: Yes, way better than that.) It's so healthy. So anyways, (Brad: Yeah) okay. Thanks for that question. I'm glad you liked my stories. Keep, please send your questions in because we love answering them. They're so fun for us. Oh ... and also,Brad Crowell 13:56  This is my shout out to Emily's Garden Show.Lesley Logan 13:59  For those of you on the YouTube. You'll see Brad like not even quietly trying (Brad laughs) to get you to ask him to ask questions about his cactus.Brad Crowell 14:08  Yeah, yeah, yeah.Lesley Logan 14:09  Okay. All right. Let's talk about, let's talk about our guests. Huh?Brad Crowell 14:12  Yeah, let's talk about the Wild Honey Band. Three amazing women, Laura, Jessica and Shelby, who gave a purpose to their gatherings and in the process created an amazing band called Wild Honey. They're moms, musicians and professionals who have stopped apologizing for taking time for themselves and encouraging other women to do the same. And we met them in real life when we were in Calgary for Pilates Fest North. And at the end of the weekend, the band was there to perform for us. And one of them actually, I think she's a Pilates instructor. And so that's how the connection all came together. And it was a, it was so much fun to listen to them. They have been a band now for 10 years. And it was ... (Lesley: I know that was shocking to me.) It really, really impressive.Lesley Logan 15:01  I guess I didn't realize that what I asked them to be on. I think I don't know what I was thinking. So, but I, we heard them in Calgary when we were there. And (Brad: Yeah) I was like, "Listen, like all these women sounds so sweet, like, they make me think of like, the bands I listened to when I was a child in the 90s." And, you know, like, The Chicks, you know, and, and then they sto... their story, and I was like, "Their frickin be it till you see it, like, all the way like, all the way." So anyways, I am so glad that they took the time how we got three three moms of many children, if you heard like all daughters ...Brad Crowell 15:36  They have eight daughters between the three of them. (Lesley: Yeah and ...) No sons apparently.Lesley Logan 15:41  I know but syskey has all the fathers, like all the husbands were like all boys. So I think that was just the universe, you know, keeping things in check. Here's the deal, our script didn't update on my end. So I'm just going to go off with my memory. I ...Brad Crowell 15:54  Oh, you're taking time for yourself? (Lesley: Thank you. Find hobbies) Yeah and ... (Lesley: ... purposeful) Hobbies? (Lesley: wonderful) Yeah, nailed it. (Lesley: nailed it) Nailed it.Lesley Logan 16:02  So okay, when they talked about, you have to take time for yourself as a mom. Obviously, I'm not a mom and I'm so sorry, whether your mom or not every lady listening, we have to take time for ourselves and not feel guilty about it. And so, you know, they brought up how like, men have all these hobbies and like they watch football together. And like, I have girlfriends who are like when it's football season. They're like, yeah, my... you know, he's watching the game. So we're watching the game. And I'm like, "What, why why are you watching? Like, why aren't we doing whatever we want to do?" And so anyways, they they created their own hobbies be unapologetic about it, but I have been trying to find hobbies. I think I had them before the pandemic, or at least some things I like to do. But then, with the pandemic, with our move with the change of our companies. I have been struggling to figure out like, "What do I like to do for me?"Brad Crowell 16:53  Yeah. (Lesley: And ...) Well, what did you do for you before?Lesley Logan 16:57  So I really liked going to, I mean, I had girlfriends that I would hang out with we workout together, which is not a hobby, but we would work out together at that one gym, and then we would go and have backyard bowls and sit and they walk. We walk the bluffs, you know, things like that. I did a I used to, I used to read a lot. I used to have go to dinners. I know none of those things are hobbies. But like I did things with people on a consistent basis that made me feel like my cup was full. Here's a hobby, not a hobby. But this is what I did. I went to the Korean spa every month when I was home. (Brad: That's true. You did.) And I spent too much time there. I hiked, we used to hike all the time but I ...Brad Crowell 17:40  We used to hike, we used to do full moon hikes. That was actually tons of fun.Lesley Logan 17:43  Those were tons of fun. (Brad: Yeah) And so I just had all these little things, though. None of them were like necessarily weekly, but they were consistent. And they were like when I need it was time to fill my cup. That's what was happening. And so I'm currently unapologetically taking a lot of time for myself to figure out things I like to do. (Brad: Yeah) And we're, the jury's still out but we're working on it. We're working on it. I did a layer class. I'm apparently a natural. Of course. (Brad: Yeah) And I'm going to take a pole fitness class, like pole dancing but for fitness. (Brad: Put that out there.) I'm putting out... It's not you don't wear shoes. So I feel good about that.Brad Crowell 18:18  The ... so we're taking a course right now called The Artist's Way. Well, the book is The Artist's Way, the course is about the book. (Lesley: Mm-hmm) And one of the things that you are supposed to do is do an artist date. And it's a solo thing. You do it by all by yourself. And I think that it's so funny, because I don't remember the last time. I mean, we've been married now for six, seven, almost ... ( Lesley: I know) six and a half years.Lesley Logan 18:51  I know someone else asked how long we were married, and we were like, "ah." He was like, "Really?" And I was like, "I know." (Lesley laughs)Brad Crowell 18:55  Yeah, six and a half years. And you know, the truth is, you get to get into this habit of doing things together, which isn't a bad thing. But you very infrequently, like I used to just do stuff by myself before when I was trying to go meet people or try to go do something or my friend's band would play and I would just go. Right? And I don't know, you just kind of stopped doing that stuff when when you're with someone.Lesley Logan 19:19  No, I think honestly ... Brad, I think it's that with the pandemic. We didn't leave the house. (Brad: Well ...) And so (Brad: you know) you just got used to do and we also moved. And so then we were like our only friends in our city. (Brad: That's true. We did move.) And we are afraid of getting the COVID.Brad Crowell 19:34  Yeah, I mean, you you you right when we were in LA we were intentional about getting together with our friends. You had your girlfriends you would get together literally once a week. (Lesley: Yeah and ...) And you know, and I would I, when you did that I would go to the Thai place and get dinner by myself... (Brad laughs) (Lesely: Yeah, yeah) So there was still some of that (Lesley: I think ...) but you know, (Lesley: I think it's just out of the habit of it) Yeah, but also to it wasn't like, new stuff. It wasn't like, "Oh, I think I'll go to the Getty Museum." No it was like, it's like we were in a routine, it was the same routine was always the same stuff. And it was awesome and fun and it did fill our cup. But this course that we're taking has been very encouraging (Lesley: Yeah) with with trying, like intentionally getting out there and doing stuff that you, you maybe would have done once and you've just haven't done in a long time. Like ...Lesley Logan 20:18  I'm going, I'm going to a craft store, tonight. (Brad: Yeah. Cool. Love it.) Yeah. But you know what, also we don't I don't know where that anything is. So I have to like, look it up. And then I'm like, "Well, is this the best one?" So then, (Lesley laughs) anyways, so I just really love that they talked about that. I think more women need to talk about that. And the more of us that are doing that, the more of our friends who you might feel like you're letting down by saying, "I'm working on this hobby, the more." They'll be like, "Oh, I should go do that, too." So at any rate, let's set the domino effect of more women having purposeful time and hobbies that they're unapologetic about. Great. (Brad: I love that.) What are you loved?Brad Crowell 20:52  Okay, so the girls said, well, Laura was talking about letting yourself be vulnerable, when trying to do things you might not be good at yet. Right. And specifically with her, she was telling that really funny story about how she decided to start playing the violin, and how she had never played the violin before. And then almost immediately thereafter, the band started and she was like, "I'm gonna play the violin in the band in the band." Right. And, and she was like, that was there's a, there was a she had, I think, her first moment of ego that she had to get over was being in class with her daughter, and not being with the rest of the moms setting along the back wall and being like, "No, I'm pulling my chair forward and I'm going to take take lessons too." And, and she talked about, like, "I was a little uncomfortable there," you know, now she's like, in class with 10 year olds, and also the other moms are looking at her like, "What are you doing?" Right? And, you know, I said ego because, you know, we think of ego as like egotistical, and like arrogance, but that fear is also ego, "What are they gonna think of me?" That's also ego. And I was listening to a podcast series recently, that is, is performed by professional actors. It's a scripted podcast series by Marvel, and they have ...Lesley Logan 22:20  ... I'm like, "What podcast series? We listen to all the same ones?" Nope, no.Brad Crowell 22:24  No, no, (Lesley: not this one) I have a whole dozen that you don't even know. (Lesley: whooho) It's called Marvel's Wastelanders. And they did a whole thing on Black Widow. And it's, uh, I'm not going to get into all the specifics. But at the end, they had a couple of interviews with the team who was doing it. Right. And the one guy said as an actor, as a stage actor, or a film actor, you know, they have all these tools that they can use to convey the experience to the audience. And that's almost always visual. Of course, there's sound and talking and audio and all the things but like, if someone's going to, like, punch you in the gut, you can go, "oh," but you're also like, you're visually like, your face is getting and you're, you're tensing up all this stuff. And they said, you know, they're like, "We're just doing audio only. So we had to really make it ridiculous." And he's like, "That was like, that was hard. That was really embarrassing." And he said, "What the..." (Lesley: That's ego.) That's ego, totally. Is like that was that, you know, but there needed to be a sense of vulnerability that they were getting to, you know, through. And he said, what they did was they went and they pulled up, Hugh Jackman playing Wolverine, because there's a video on YouTube apparently, of Hugh Jackman playing Wolverine. And when he was doing, I don't know if it was an animated series or whatever he was doing. And Hugh Jackman is apparently doing all the the punches and the grunts and groans and the ah and like Hugh Jackman looks like an idiot. Right? Like, but that's what the job called for. And he does he does it anyway, because it's about the audio. So they were like, "Wow, like, okay, if he can be vulnerable and he's super famous, then I can be vulnerable. And I can do this podcast series." And ...Lesley Logan 24:13  And I would love to know what Hugh Jackman thought because he probably thought like, "Oh my God, I have to be so ridiculously over the top to make this done. This is like not as easy. I can just make the movie and be easier." Like, I'm sure like, it's kind of we never know what the other person is thinking. But like, you know, Amy Ledin and I think we even both talked about this on one of our episodes. Like, I had this ego of like, "Oh my God, does she want to work with me? Like, what you want to do this?" And like, and she had the same feeling, "I don't know if this girl's gonna work with me." Like, just so you know, whatever you're like little like sirens in your head or like, "I don't know if I should do this and so embarrassing." Everyone else (Brad: Right) is thinking the exact opposite in the same way. (Brad: Yeah) You're like, "Oh, I wish I could ..." I bet you those moms were like, "Oh, I wish my daughter would let me take class with her." You know, so anways. Brad Crowell 24:56  Yeah. Yeah, I always take solace in being the person who asks the questions for the group because I know I'm not alone. And so I'm willing to that that's what allows me in my head. That's the story, I tell myself to be raising my hand in a group setting and ask the question, because I know that there are other people thinking the same thing. You know?Yeah, that's great. I love, I love the word solace. (Brad: Yes) Let's take solace in that. (Brad laughs) Okay. (Brad: All right) BE IT action items.Okay. Finally...Lesley Logan 25:22  They have so many good stuff, though.Brad Crowell 25:24  Let's talk about the BE IT action items. What both, executable, intrinsic or targeted actions, can we take away from your convo with the Wild Honey Honey Band. So they said something, which I thought was really, it connected with me a lot. They said, "Show up to the plans you have made and believe in them." (Lesley: I love this.) And I think what they were specifically talking about was, you you had asked, "How does how does your family and friends, how do your family and friends respect your rehearsal time?" Because did it seem ridiculous where you were like, "Sorry, Mom's got a band practice now," you know, and like, the kids or whatever, the husbands or whatever, like work life, all the things. How did band practice become a serious thing? Right. And they they said, they said basically, they had to make the decision that this was serious. This was a real thing. And they were going to take it seriously, they were going to treat it as a real thing. And that posture, that belief in what they were doing, would then ...Lesley Logan 26:40  ... 100% being it till they see it, by the way.Brad Crowell 26:43  Oh, yeah. Being it till they see it. And that would permeate into other people's understanding that this is not a joke, you know, and, and so, you know, but the the second thing is, they said, "You got to show up to the plans that you made." So they pick Thursday nights, and Thursdays were rehearsal night at whatever time and, and they made a decision that they were gonna be there for each other. (Lesley: Yeah) You know, they still said they have fun, they drink a glass of wine, this, but that there's very much a decision to be there. And that they were going to take this seriously and go, you know, be in a band.Lesley Logan 27:21  Yeah, I so this is the same thing of like, if you put that you want to go to the gym in your schedule a certain time. I don't care how busy your day was, if the gym isn't on fire, and you can still drive to the gym, like every the freeway is open, everything is allowing you to go there except for your mind. You need to stick to the plans that you made and believe in it because you have that's how our confidence comes from. Confidence comes from showing up to the things you committed to. And those little things, those little things that you said you were gonna do, every time you flake on yourself for those little plans. So it's like seemingly little plans. You are actually under... under... (Brad: undermining) undermining, eroding ... (Brad: Yeah, eroding) (Lesley laughs) (Brad: under routing) under route, you're under routing. Your confidence in yourself to show up for yourself. And so ...Brad Crowell 28:11  You're undermining your belief.Lesley Logan 28:12  Yes. I cannot love this BE IT action enough. It is one of the best ones I think we've ever had. You know, and I it's not like, it's easy for us to like, Brad, sign us up for this Artist's Way thing. And I swear I thought he was gonna flake out on it. And then I could just like out too, because I'm like, "Oh, I I am a recovering overachiever and perfectionist. And so I have to show up for the things I signed up for." But I was like, "Oh, he's a rebel. If he doesn't do it, then like full permission." You know? And then like, I, but it's working. And we're showing up for it. And we're believing it. But like another thing, I sometimes you have to put your money there like, (Brad: Yeah) like the investment of it. You know, one of our retreaters said to me on the phone the other day, she's like, "Lesley, if your retreat hadn't been as expensive as it was, I wouldn't have shown up. I would have just let it go." (Brad: Yeah) So you may if you're someone who like consistently, like flakes out on things, and you want to change that, put some money that you like, don't want to throw away or behind it, and you'll show up for it.Brad Crowell 29:07  Oh, you you know you will because that was like painful to make that decision. And that will change your reaction to. I mean, that's exactly why when we are getting coaching for our businesses. Man, it's sometimes it's really hard to make that decision because you're looking at like, a couple 10s of 1000s of dollars for coaching. And you bet your ass that we're gonna show up for it. Right? So because that does not like that that's a scary number. Right? And that's but that's also on purpose, right? Of course the person that we've hired to be our coach, you know, we're paying them and they're, you know, but they're bringing value to the table that and we know that they're bringing value to table but it's more than that. It's also what is it going to take to get my ass into gear and go show up for it and really take it seriously. A lot of times it comes down to a price tag.Well and some and also like, there are some things that like we may be like, "Ah, we're this is really busy, let's just push this one to the next month." But it's like, "No, we actually paid for this advice. We have to ..." Like, it kind of forces us to do things that scare the living daylights out of us. (Brad: Yeah, a little bit.) So my big BE IT item that I love is text someone you love to let them know you're thinking about them. You know what, text, someone that you're thinking about that you're thinking about them. You have to love them yet, but (Brad: Right) like for those of you who are like feel like you don't have enough, like maybe you're lighting new friends. Well, text the person you're thinking you might want to be your friend, "Hey, did you see the moon tonight? It looks so amazing." (Brad: Yeah) Like, it doesn't have to be a question. You don't have to ask them how they are?No, I actually do this all the time is something I've been doing ...Lesley Logan 30:45  Tell us how you do it, because I do this really well with the people that I do it with all the time. But ...Brad Crowell 30:49  Oh, no, I do this with everybody ... Anybody that I think have ever. If I'm thinking of somebody, I reach out to them. And I literally just say, "Hey, I was just thinking about you. I hope everything's amazing." Sent. (Lesley: Yeah) That's it. Like it's not ...Lesley Logan 31:06  You can even, you can even copy that you'll from the show notes and put it in your notes and just copy and paste that anytime (Lesley laughs) you think of someone.Brad Crowell 31:12  Yeah. But I do it all the time. And I and often I don't hear back from people and that's okay. But like, I it's something that I started doing when I was in college. And I started doing it with my high school friends. We all had gotten cell phones at the time. And then we all went off to college. Right. And the whole point was basically that the the we're now no longer together, we've been together our whole lives, and then suddenly, we're gone. You know, I like grew up with these kids. And then you know, and then and then what we're supposed to forget about all that. So I started texting everyone like, "Hey, hope you're doing well. Hey, I hope college is awesome. I hope all this stuff." And it became something that I've maintained over the years.And you know what? Also send those to the people you think are the strongest. (Brad: Yeah) If you with some... if you think that somebody is like, "Oh my gosh, like, they're so strong." I will say like, during the pandemic, a lot of friends reached out to a lot of people and then like I reached out, and they're like, you know, they said, "Oh Lesley I'm so sorry, I haven't reached out to you. I just know that you're so resilient." And I'm like, "Yep, I'm over here resilient, all alone." (Brad: Yeah, yeah) I would be really nice ... (Lesley laughs) being resilient. So I just say like ...And if you don't have their phone number, you know, you can ... (Lesley: DM on Instagram) Yeah, send them a DM on Instagram or (Lesley: email them) or, or message them on Facebook or something you know and and and the same thing goes with family. You know, we got cousins, aunts and uncles that we only talk to occasionally but it there's something really incredible about opening up your text and getting a text with someone that's just like, "Hey, I hope your day is amazing."Lesley Logan 32:44  Well, what also people just want to feel seen. So maybe you (Brad: Yeah) hear a song and you just send them a song. Like yesterday, I sent you and your sister (Brad: Yeah) a song. And I totally I mean, obviously I talk to them all the time. But we talked about work. We don't actually just like send something funny or whatever. And and so I sent them a (Lesley laughs) terrible song.No, it's a great song. Are you kidding? It's an inside joke song. (Lesley: It's an inside joke song.) It's incredible.I just texted the two of them. No, no explanations. And then and then they listened to it and it made them laugh (Brad: Oh yeah) and it brigthen their day. So like, so anyways, that is my BE IT action item for you from these amazing women. (Brad: Yeah) Thank you to the Wild Honey Band. (Brad: Yes) Ladies, you are just an inspiration. And you you know, not just in the music that you do, but in the way you built your lives and the way you do it. And I I, their daughters are the luckiest daughters ever.Brad Crowell 33:31  Pretty cool. What an awesome example.Lesley Logan 33:32  Yeah. I'm Lesley Logan.Brad Crowell 33:34  And I'm Brad Crowell.Lesley Logan 33:35  Thank you so much for joining us today. We are so grateful you're here. How are you going to use these tips in your life? Let us know by sending a DM, tag the @be_it_pod with a takeaway with the BE IT action item that you're implementing this week. And also tag the tag the Wild Honey Band or whoever if maybe you're listening to a different episode. And you remember this, that's fine. But please let us know because it let's, it let's people know like what helped, what helped you in their life and it gives them a little like, making making them feel like you are thought of them.Brad Crowell 34:02  Yeah, why don't you go ... Why don't you go DM the Wild Honey Band and say, "Hey, I just heard you, you know on the BE IT pod. Thanks for sharing your story."Lesley Logan 34:11  Yeah, that's it. Just text that, that's DM that. That's all you have to do. (Brad: Yep.) So anyways,Brad Crowell 34:15  They're out of Canada, out of Calgary. (Lesley: Yeah) So there are a few Wild Honey Bands, I want to say it's, well we'll put the link to their IG. (Lesley: They're Wild Honey Band Three) Three. Yeah, we'll put the their Instagram link in the show notes. (Lesley: Yeah. So do that) So give them some love. Tell them "thanks."Lesley Logan 34:30  And until next time, Be It Till You See It.Brad Crowell 34:31  Bye for now.Lesley Logan 34:34  That's all I got for this episode of the Be It Till You See It podcast. One thing that would help both myself and future listeners is for you to rate the show and leave a review. And follow or subscribe for free wherever you listen to your podcasts. Also, make sure to introduce yourself over at the @be_it_pod on Instagram. I would love to know more about you. Share this episode with whoever you think needs to hear it. Help us and others BE IT TILL YOU SEE IT. Have an awesome day!'Be It Till You See It' is a production of 'As The Crows Fly Media'.Brad Crowell 35:07  It's written, produced, filmed and recorded by your host Lesley Logan and me, Brad Crowell. Our Associate Producer is Amanda Frattarelli.Lesley Logan 35:18  Kevin Perez at Disenyo handles all of our audio editing.Brad Crowell 35:22  Our theme music is by Ali at APEX Production Music. And our branding by designer and artist, Gianfranco Cioffi.Lesley Logan 35:31  Special thanks to our designer Jaira Mandal for creating all of our visuals (which you can't see because this is a podcast) and our digital producer, Jay Pedroso for editing all video each week so you can.Brad Crowell 35:43  And to Angelina Herico for transcribing each of our episodes so you can find them on our website. And, finally to Meridith Crowell for keeping us all on point and on time.Transcribed by https://otter.aiSupport this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/be-it-till-you-see-it/donationsAdvertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brandsPrivacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy

A band that was built from a group of women who finally stopped apologizing for taking time to themselves. Life gets busy. There are kids, jobs, and commitments that can make it hard to show up for yourself but these ladies show us the magic that happens when you finally do.If you have any questions about this episode or want to get some of the resources we mentioned, head over to LesleyLogan.co/podcast. If you have any comments or questions about the Be It pod shoot us a message at beit@lesleylogan.co . And as always, if you're enjoying the show please share it with someone who you think would enjoy it as well. It is your continued support that will help us continue to help others. Thank you so much! Never miss another show by subscribing at LesleyLogan.co/subscribe.In this episode you will learn about:Taking time you yourself as a mom  Letting yourself be vulnerable to do the thing you may not be good at yet  Importance of sisterhood Figuring out the important people to begin taking action with Episode References/Links:WebsiteFBIGYTGuest Bio: Wild Honey BandWhat started as a desperate desire for comradery and purpose became the all-female band, Wild Honey.With eight daughters under the age of seven, Laura Cain, Jessica Niedermeyer, and Shelby Knudsen decided they needed to find a reason to get together. Something that wouldn't be so easily cancelled when things got chaotic, which was almost always.After much discussion, they landed on a band. Shelby played some campfire guitar and Jess grew up surrounded by music and musicians, although she carried a deep fear of performing. Laura had an unspoken dream to play the violin. A band seemed perfect. It couldn't be that hard, right?Ten years later, and Wild Honey is going strong. Aside from the band, Laura has earned her masters in counselling and opened her own thriving practice. Jess became a pilates instructor and opened a private studio called Free Rein Pilates, recently deciding to step away from instructing to focus on her cattle ranch. Shelby published a novel called Mountain Girl, and has completed two more which are waiting for publication. She was the editor-in-chief at Kootenay Living Magazine prior to the pandemic.In 2019 Wild Honey released their first album, Distant Skies. They are currently working on their second. They have faced moments on stage, back stage, and trying to get to the stage, that have almost broken them, but they have always chosen to continue. The vulnerability and raw fear of performing have humbled them to their cores, but after a good cry and a gin martini, they keep going.The early days of babies, breast pumps, and peeling kids off their legs to go play in bars are over. Now they share beautiful stages with talented musicians who inspire them. They write songs about their journey as women and mothers. They have stopped apologizing. Period. For wanting something for themselves and for failing at it long before they succeeded. For not being perfect. They're not sorry. They're grateful. They won't tell you it's easy, but they will tell you that you deserve to try. You deserve to try and to fail and not say sorry. Because that's life, and while you're lucky enough to be here, you might as well jump in with both feet.Wild Honey plays annually with Barney Bentall and the Cariboo Express, and have beenhonored to share a stage with great talents like The Odds, Leeroy Stagger, Ryland Moran, and many others. More info on the band is available on their website – www.wildhoneyband3.com or follow them on Facebook and Instagram.If you enjoyed this episode, make sure and give us a five star rating and leave us a review on iTunes, Podcast Addict, Podchaser or Castbox.ResourcesWatch the Be It Till You See It podcast on YouTube!Lesley Logan websiteBe It Till You See It PodcastOnline Pilates Classes by Lesley LoganOnline Pilates Classes by Lesley Logan on YouTubeProfitable PilatesSocial MediaInstagramFacebookLinkedInSupport this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/be-it-till-you-see-it/donationsAdvertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brandsPrivacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy

Hello Friends! Today I'm joined by everyone's favorite Wild Homie, Kurt Baker!  We talk all things Wild Honey, pepperoni, shoveling snow and Maine beaches!  POOF! Thanks for listening! Wyatt   Patreon Discord Instagram Twitter www.sailonsounds.com sailonpodcast@gmail.com (615) 606-3887