Podcasts about RET

When Rebecca Gray '94 arrived at her first duty station, she thought she was ready to lead — until a senior master sergeant told her to get a coffee cup and led her away from the safety of her desk. “You've got to know who people are, so that you know how to relate to them,” he told her. That simple moment became the foundation of her entire leadership journey.    SHARE THIS PODCAST LINKEDIN  |  FACEBOOK    REBECCA'S TOP 5 LEADERSHIP TAKEAWAYS 1. Lead With Authentic Connection Genuinely care about your team members as people, not just colleagues—know their stories, show real interest in their lives, and let authenticity drive your leadership style. This builds trust and drives engagement. 2.Adapt and Balance Across Life's Seasons Recognize that leadership and career paths aren't always linear. It's important to intentionally adapt your role and focus to meet the current stage of your life, whether that means prioritizing family, professional growth, or personal health. 3. Translate Core Values Across Environments Military leadership lessons—like accountability, communication, and team cohesion—are just as powerful in civilian life. Carry these values into new environments and roles, and tailor them to fit each unique context. 4. Empower Others Through Example Be a “working leader” by setting the pace and modeling the behaviors you want to see. Encourage your team's growth by giving responsibility, asking for input, and trusting them to rise to new challenges—even if it means letting them make mistakes. 5. Continuous Self-Development Fuels Leadership Commit to lifelong learning and personal development through regular habits—like reading, exercise, and reflection. Maintaining intellectual curiosity and a growth mindset not only strengthens your leadership but also inspires others to do the same.   CHAPTERS 0:00:04 – Introduction to the Podcast and Guest Rebecca Gray 0:00:29 – The Coffee Cup Lesson: Early Leadership and the Influence of Senior Master Sergeant Kennedy 0:01:48 – Authentic Connection: Lessons Carried From the Military to Corporate Leadership 0:03:32 – The Power of Authenticity and Understanding Team Members' Lives 0:04:49 – Translating Military Leadership Lessons to the Corporate World 0:07:58 – Creating Team Connection in Remote and Fast-Paced Environments 0:11:47 – Memorable Military Leadership Influences 0:13:24 – Balancing Military Service, Family, and Career Transitions 0:16:53 – Career as Seasons: Crafting Balance and Intentionality 0:19:19 – Navigating Critical Career Junctures and Embracing Change 0:22:18 – Building Confidence and Trusting Yourself 0:23:46 – Fostering Confidence and a ‘Go Mentality' on the Team 0:25:39 – Leading and Aligning Family and Professional Goals 0:27:28 – Practicing Continuous Learning and Personal Development 0:28:32 – Advice to Emerging Leaders: Value Well-Roundedness and Humility 0:29:43 – Reflections on Alumni, Family Connection, and Leadership Beyond the Academy 0:30:15 – Closing Thoughts on Leadership, Service, and Authentic Paths ABOUT REBECCA BIO Rebecca Gray ‘94, Boingo Wireless senior vice president and general manager, leads a division providing soldiers, sailors, airmen and Marines connectivity wherever they go. Alongside her military service, she's held leadership roles at Fortune 200 companies in energy, media and telecommunications — including Southern Company and Comcast NBCUniversal — and has volunteered with multiple nonprofits. Her focus is on innovation that strengthens communities and keeps people connected. A three-time All-American springboard diver, Gray started her Air Force journey as a recruited athlete at the U.S. Air Force Academy. After graduation, she trained as a World Class Athlete and competed for Team USA at the 1995 World Games in Rome. She's served in key leadership roles across the Air National Guard and Air Force Reserve, including deputy wing commander at the 111th Attack Wing in the Pennsylvania ANG, as well as director of staff for the Georgia ANG. She's also a graduate of the Secretary of Defense Fortune 500 Corporate Fellowship Program and earned her doctorate after studying around the globe in Israel, England, India and China. She and her husband — an Air Force Academy '93 grad — married at the Cadet Chapel in 1994. They have three daughters: Jasmine, a junior at Bates College; Grace, a sophomore at Centenary University; and Kennedy, a freshman at NJIT. Their Yorkie, Cookie, has become a seasoned traveler, having visited all but two states in the continental U.S.   CONNECT WITH REBECCA LINKEDIN BONIGO WIRELESS   CONNECT WITH THE LONG BLUE LINE PODCAST NETWORK TEAM Ted Robertson | Producer and Editor:  Ted.Robertson@USAFA.org Send your feedback or nominate a guest: socialmedia@usafa.org   Ryan Hall | Director:  Ryan.Hall@USAFA.org  Bryan Grossman | Copy Editor:  Bryan.Grossman@USAFA.org Wyatt Hornsby | Executive Producer:  Wyatt.Hornsby@USAFA.org      ALL PAST LBL EPISODES  |  ALL LBLPN PRODUCTIONS AVAILABLE ON ALL MAJOR PODCAST PLATFORMS     FULL TRANSCRIPT OUR SPEAKERS Guest, Rebecca Gray '94  |  Host, Lt. Col. (Ret.) Naviere Walkewicz '99   Naviere Walkewicz  00:04 Welcome to Long Blue Leadership, where we explore the lessons of leadership through the lives and stories of Air Force Academy graduates. I'm your host, Naviere Walkewicz, Class of '99. When Rebecca Gray walked into her first duty station after graduating from the Academy, she thought she was ready to lead. But it wasn't a general, a colonel or a policy manual that changed her view of leadership. It was a senior master sergeant named Patrick J. Kennedy and a coffee cup.   Rebecca Gray  00:29 He said, “You're doing this all wrong. You need to be out, out, out.” He told me, “Go grab a coffee cup.” I didn't drink coffee at the time, so he goes, “Go get some water. Stop being difficult.” And he walked me around and said, “This is this is what matters. You've got to know who people are, so that you know how to relate to them.” That really shaped me.   Naviere Walkewicz  00:50 That simple moment became the foundation for how Rebecca has led her teams ever since. From the Air Force to corporate boardrooms, from public service to private equity, Rebecca Gray, USAFA, Class of '94, has led across nearly every domain — active duty, Reserve and Guard — and built a remarkable second career spanning nonprofit work, education and now executive leadership. Her path has been shaped by transformational moments, moments that taught her how to connect, to trust herself and to lead with conviction. Rebecca, welcome to Long Blue Leadership.   Rebecca Gray  01:23 Thank you so much for having me. It's just a privilege to be here. Thank you for what you're doing for the grads, for the parents, for alumni, all of that. It's really impressive.   Naviere Walkewicz  01:31 Oh gosh. Really appreciate that. And I think, you know, that clip was so wonderful to hear. And I think we should just jump right in to that moment in time, kind of winding back the clock when you were just really transformed in your leadership style by your senior enlisted leader. Can we talk about that?   Rebecca Gray  01:48 I was just, had just graduated, and, as you said, my first duty assignment, and the only officer in the shop. And so senior master sergeant, which is one rank below chief — so the top, one of the top senior enlisted advisers in my shop, and we went for a walk and he really just taught me how to connect with the troops, to connect with people, walk around, get to really know them. And I'll have to tell you the first time I did it, I did a pass through, I went through the motions, if you will. And, you know, I came back, I was like, “Oh, OK, I did it. I did it. I'm all… I'm good, and have done my leadership duty for the day.” And he asked me, he said, “Who got a new car?” And I mentioned the airman's name of who got a new car. He goes, “What color was the car and what was the type of car?” And I was like, “Oh, OK.” And he goes, “So you didn't really care.” And I thought that's true, that's actually accurate. I needed to really care about what his first car was, and was it a truck? Was it a sedan? What was it? And so that really shaped me into really caring in a way that's already in your heart. But how do you express that in a leadership capacity? And so that changed the course of my 30-plus years in the military and then in corporate.   Naviere Walkewicz  03:07 What a powerful story. I mean, we can actually visualize you walking around. And as you know, graduates, we are kind of like, you know, task-minded. We're going to get this done. And you did it. You check the box. But to go down that next level, how do you see that actually becoming actionable across, you know, all leadership levels, you know, where you're actually walking the walk with your troops, so to speak. Can you talk about that a little bit more?   Rebecca Gray  03:32 Well, I think you have to be authentic, and be your authentic, you know, be authentic in your heart and what you're really doing. And if you don't have that, then people can feel it. People can tell if they don't feel your connection or your care concern for them. I think that really just mirrored an opportunity for me to put the two together. To your point, we're very task-minded, results-driven. When you graduate, very results-driven. It still impacts me every day, to be results, but you were doing it alongside of other people who have lives and who have things going on in their personal and professional lives, and we bring that to the table too, and really connecting with that and how to motivate people, how to encourage, how to walk with people and help them get to the results that they need to do, you know, as part of your team.   Naviere Walkewicz  04:29 Maybe, can you share an example of how you're using this? You said this has impacted you over the past 30 years. You know, it seems very clear — we're in an in middle military setting, and you're, you know, amongst your troops, you're leading beside them, you're understanding. How does that translate now and where you're at in the corporate world, at your level of leadership. What does this look like?   Rebecca Gray  04:49 I think that's a really good question, because when you look at it, you can see it very easily in the military. It plugs and plays very easily. Once you understand and you put it all together and you can develop it. You get a opportunities to develop that every day, if you will, every day you get that opportunity. But I think when you translate it into civilian life — and we all end up having a civilian life after the military — whether it's, you know a first-term enlistment, whether it's your first duty assignment, you fulfill your active-duty commitment from the Academy, whatever those years are. Whether you, you know, finish your 20 or what have you, you do transition out of military life at some point in time.   Naviere Walkewicz  05:37 Let's talk about what you're doing right now. I think it's important for our listeners to understand what that looks like and, you know, how you're leading in that space.      Rebecca Gray  05:44 Oh my gosh. I am so excited about what I do. It's the best job I've ever had. It's a great company that I work for. I work for Boingo Wireless. And what I do — my job at the company is to do anything that relates to the military. So we provide connectivity to over 100 bases around the world. I've got an incredible team that many of them have served, either as a veteran retiree or still serving. You have to understand what they know. What is their background? Where have they been? Where have they served, so to speak? What companies have they worked in? What role, leadership roles? What technology have they been around? What schools have they been to? All those things, and then also some of their things that are going on in their personal life so that you understand what's bringing them to work every day to support their personal and professional goals. And so you have to translate that, take that military experience and put that into the civilian workforce. And I think it's very powerful. It's so natural. I really actually don't think about it as much because you've developed it so such a tried and true part of who your character becomes, that coming back into civilian life and transitioning back into it, it's a great opportunity to bring all of those skill sets and move right into that — in leading teams, in learning that new chain of command, if you will, in corporate. And so that's a really powerful thing, and it feels like it's an enjoyable part of my day is the people I get to work with, the quality of people I get to work with. If I don't have that connection, I feel like I'm missing something at the end of the day.   Naviere Walkewicz  07:36 Can you share an example in which to that level that, you know, that the senior master sergeant said, “Did you know what type of car it was?” Where you've actually got to that level with someone, maybe in your civilian career, and how that has… Have you seen that actually make an impact on either performance or the results, or really just their own worth?   Rebecca Gray  07:58 Well, I think that's an interesting question. I think that can be played in two different areas. If you're in the office, there's an ability to be connected just by having lunch together, by having coffee, you know, you're in and you're around and about, and physically, there's just a different kind of energy when you're around people. So my team, we get together at some regular intervals that we set as a team for the year. We do one big, we call it an all-hands, an annual meeting, we're going to Vegas this year, and we're going in February. And so we're bringing the entire team; everybody's coming out of the field, everybody's coming from around the world, and they're all coming. We're meeting in Vegas, and we're going to spend a couple days together talking about what we accomplished last year, what we're going to do in the future, and then we also do some learnings, and, you know, things like that, some technology growth opportunities and things like that. So that's one thing that shows that you use… You're going to spend some budget dollars to really ensure that people know how you feel and how you value them as being part of this team, and making sure… I spend every other week planning this for a year and we do that every other week, and we talk about the hotel, we talk about the food, we, you know — our team-building exercises, the agenda, the T-shirts, the design of those, every detail, because I want my team to walk away at the end of that — we'll probably have over 100 people in the room — and I want everyone to walk out of that knowing that they are a valuable member of the team. So that's one thing we do, you know, on my team. And then on Monday mornings, we have a staff meeting every Monday morning, a team meeting, and the first question of the day is, “What did you do for the weekend?” And that's where we learn about all kinds of, you know, really fun things about people and what they're doing, what they're doing with their family, or who they're, you know, trying to date, or, you know, buying a new house, or, you know, all kinds of things that you learn. And then also you develop that within the team, because other people hear that question, and otherwise it's very transactional. This is what you do. This is what you can do for me. And in this fast-paced technology world, taking that time at the beginning of the meeting to say, “Let's take a pause, and I want to hear about you.” And so to me, that's another small thing, but a very powerful thing. In a fast-paced technology space, I think it's even more critical to take a pause, to take a stop and take a breath and realize the people that we're working with are… It's a gift to have this opportunity to work with one another, and I want them to feel a part of the team, even though we're in a remote setting, because most of my team is in the field. And so in that remote setting, that is even more critical, I think. So I think there's both, you know… When you're in the office, there's one way to do things, and then when you're in this more remote setting that we are — and then we're in a fast-paced technology setting. It's moving all the time, and sometimes you get into more activity and results and results and activity, and you accomplish one thing, and you're on to the next and, and that's… I don't know if that wheel spinning so fast is always, you know, healthy.   Naviere Walkewicz  11:15 Well, I really appreciate how you actually gave very specific examples of this leadership in action, because you're right: In this pace and in this remote kind of setting that many of us operate in, being able to still find that human touch and that connection to what you were speaking about that went all the way back to, you know, the senior master sergeant. But I'm sure you also had leaders throughout your military career that also exemplified some of this. Can you share any other moments while you're in uniform, where you saw some of these leadership traits that you really wanted to embody and that you've carried through your career to date?   Rebecca Gray  11:47 Gen. Hosmer was the, I think he was the calm when I was at the Academy, and he would walk around with his A-jacket. So you didn't really know if he was a cadet or not, because once you put your hat on, you can't tell. But, and you know, “Oh my gosh, it was a general just walked past me.” But he knew people's names. He remembered my name, and he remembered it for four years, and it was just a powerful moment that I remembered on my graduation, when we walked through the line with your parents, and you're doing that reception, and he said, “Rebecca, congratulations. Well done, and you did great.” And all those kinds of you know things. And I'll never forget that walk, whether he was walking on the Terrazzo and called my name, whether he remembered it going through a line of 1,000 people with all their parents, and you know, all of that. And I think that's always stuck with me, that level of remembering somebody's name, remembering who they are, that really was powerful to me early on in my military career.   Naviere Walkewicz  12:48 Oh, thank you for sharing that, because those are the moments that so many people can connect with that really do imprint on them and how they are as leaders, you know, and I'm curious, because…   Rebecca Gray  12:57 That's a good word, “imprint.” That's a really good word, “imprint.”   Naviere Walkewicz  13:03 Yeah, it feels that way. Thank you. Thank you. You know, I would love to dive into your Air Force career and the decision to transition out, because I just imagine in the way that you have done so many incredible things that your time in the military was very successful. Can you talk about what that was and then the decision to transition, why that came about and why you made it?   Rebecca Gray  13:24 That's a very powerful decision. It's a big decision to come into the military, and it's a big decision when it's time to leave. And those are hard decisions. And sometimes you leave too early, sometimes you stay in too long. You know, different things like that. But for me, it was my husband was a '93 grad. So I'm '94 he was '93 we got married at the Cadet Chapel right after I graduated in September. I share that because my husband and I were dual spouse, joint spouse. We were just talking about it the other day, because we just celebrated — it was our 31st wedding anniversary — and we looked at it and we said, “Gosh, you know, what a ride we've had.” And we got to know each other. We were in the same cadet squadron. We were both in 29 for three years and sophomore through senior year. And we both looked at each other. We were going to get separated. I was going to do a remote to Korea. He was going to Malstrom in Montana, and my follow on was Vegas, at Nellis. And so we realized we were going to be as separated for a few years, and that was a really big decision for us, because we loved the military, we loved our lifestyle, we loved our friends, we loved the camaraderie and all the things that you love, and we realized, where does that fit with our marriage and how do we pull this off? And so I think along the way, we've really tried to drive a commitment to service. We both went off active duty. We decided to go into the Reserve together, and then I eventually went into the Guard. So I ended up serving active duty, Guard and Reserve, which was really wasn't done back in the day.   Naviere Walkewicz  15:04 No, I was going to say…   Rebecca Gray  15:07 No, that was not done. I mean, you stay active duty for 20 years. You stay Reserve. You might do active duty and then Reserve, but to finish up and get to your 20… But I had three little children, and so I was able to do the Reserve. And so I think what's great about the military is, if you are open to looking at your career and seeing it as a different stages and phases of your life and letting it shape and form around that too, there are ways to serve. That was the way I felt called to serve. I think other people, active duty is the way to go, or Reserve or Guard is the way to go, you know, straight through. But for me, it gave me the flexibility, and I found that it was a lot of fun to do it that way. I got to learn different things in each of the different statuses, if you will. And I was able to put a whole career together with three little kids, and, you know, 31 years of marriage.   Naviere Walkewicz  16:04 Well, I think as a leader, those decision points — and it sounds like you were really well grounded in, you know, what do we want to commit to. Commitment to service, a commitment to each other. But I think what is so special about your career, when you look at it in seasons or in stages, is you've had some incredible opportunities to still continue to thrive professionally, even as those stages change. And if you wouldn't mind sharing some of that, because I think there's times when listeners feel like, “If my trajectory is not vertical, like in one path that you know, that everyone kind of recognizes as the path, then it's not successful.” But to your point, if you look at it in stages, and what is this stage, how do I evolve in this stage? In this stage? And maybe it's not always directly vertical, but we're still moving in it at an angle. I think it's powerful for our listeners to hear, if you don't mind sharing what that's been like.   Rebecca Gray  16:53 I made a very intentional decision to serve as a squadron commander in a certain season. So I wanted to build a life that had different components to it, and to do that, that meant you have to be intentional about that if you want to stay on one path. And I think as this world gets more complex, the technology is moving very fast. You want to stay balanced. I think the only way you can stay balanced in life is to really have different components of your life. There's a time to be a squadron commander, there's a time to be a senior leader. There's a time to be an individual contributor and there's a time to say this is, you know, for whatever myriad of reasons, health or family dynamics, or you're going through a degree program. And so you have to kind of make those things to ebb and flow appropriately. And I wanted to put those building blocks and pieces together to make something really interesting and a reason to wake up in the morning and something that got me out of bed. I do Squadron Officer School. I do, you know, ACSC, and then War College. And so you can end up checking these boxes and checking, you know, different assignments and different levels. Just like you graduate from college, you got to meet certain, you know, credit requirements and different kinds of classes and things like that. So I'm not saying it's a negative, but it shouldn't be a mindset. It should be just the way you need to get certain things done.   Naviere Walkewicz  18:17 And by the way, Sgt. Kennedy would come back and be like, “This is not enough, ma'am.” So, but you know what I really loved about what you just described? This might be the first time I've heard the description of balance, because you did it in a way that — you talked about balance being almost having holistic, a holistic view of various pillars. And there's times when you know you're bringing one of the forefront, so you're not ever saying they're in balance, where they're all, you know, equitable or like, everything is just, you know, the scale is exactly the same on both sides. But what you're saying is, there's time when you're bringing stuff to the forefront, but I'm really aware of the all of those pieces, and I think that is such a wonderful way to look at balance. Which brings me to this question of, you know, you have approached your career and, you know, being a mother and a wife was such, you know, a unique view. When did you know it was time to add onto your plate in this nonprofit space? And then you go, you know, going… So it just seems like you've made these decisions at critical points. How do you measure when that next point is supposed to come around and you take that leap?   Rebecca Gray  19:19 Sometimes, life gives you that opportunity to take a step back and say, “OK, I'm now at a critical juncture. What do I want to do?” That can be your, you know, your health, or a family dynamic, or you get accepted into a program and you want to do this. When I got accepted into that secretary of defense corporate fellowship program that's basically Air War College in residence. You can imagine doing Air War College in residence as a Guard member was very prestigious, an incredible opportunity, and then they sucked me into this fellowship opportunity. But that really changed my trajectory, because at the time, I was in nonprofit, and it pulled me out, put me back in uniform for one year. That was a one-year commitment to do War College in that capacity. And then it was after that I decided to move into corporate. And so I think there's certain times when you get those moments, and what I think is, people race through those — I think they race through that moment. And instead to take a stop and a pause and say, “Do I want to make a change at this moment? Do I want to do this?” I really didn't want to make that change. I didn't want to come out of nonprofit at the time. I didn't want to do War College in residence. I didn't want to do some of those things. And instead, I took it and I said, “I don't know where this is heading, but I'm OK with where this is gonna go.” And I don't think sometimes you need to know all those pieces before you make those decisions. And I think — because then if you need that, you're never going to have it. I mean, you just don't. And so for me, it's always a moment where you stop and you say, “This is an opportunity for me to change where I live, to change my career, to change a family dynamic.” Do you add another kid? Do you, you know, stop at three? You know, what do you do? I think what I have tried to really do is stop and really have it like, really, I really take it… Really take that moment and have that moment and say, this is a moment for me to say, is, “What do I need to change? What do I want to change?” Or nothing? Do I want — I keep going, but I have made that decision.   Naviere Walkewicz  21:30 Well, what I'm hearing from that is a level of confidence in yourself that you've probably developed over time. From, you know, the different interactions you've had from… I mean, wearing so many hats has probably actually given you a stronger confidence in what you're able to accomplish, what your capacity is when you don't really know what's all around you, so to speak, you don't have all the answers. Can we talk a little bit about when you knew that, or when you recognize that in yourself? Because when you made those decisions and you said you walked through those doors with your eyes wide open, you're essentially betting on yourself, right? You have built this trust and confidence in your ability. Can you talk about what that looks like? How you came to that? Because I think there's times where our listeners have this doubt, this self-doubt, so let's talk about that.   Rebecca Gray  22:18 If you have good, good people around you, you ask for good advice. You have a, I think, a faith that can ground you. And you know that you've been given these gifts and this skill set, and you've made certain mile markers in life. I think it just builds over time.   Naviere Walkewicz  22:39 Would you say that you recognized, I guess, betting on yourself and confidence in yourself early in the years when you started diving and recognized, “Wow, this is scary, but OK,” right? Or was it more developed later?   Rebecca Gray  22:52 I started diving when I was 10, and you know, I would be up there on the diving board. I was a little 10-year-old, and sometimes you couldn't get walked down the board. You were terrified. My coach would sit there and she would say, “OK, we're gonna go — 1, 2, 3,” and you go, you learn how to walk down that diving board, and you learn how to do things that you you're not really confident on, and you're not really… But once you master it, it's really fun. It's probably from, I think, diving, athletics, I think does that to you. You know, whether you're chasing that soccer ball and you got to go up against somebody bigger, whether you're in football, and you got to go off up against… My husband was a fullback at the Air Force Academy, and so he went up against lineman at Notre Dame and Ohio State and things like that. And he goes, “It was terrifying.” And so… But when the whistle blows and the play calls called you. You go and so you develop that strength some somehow along the way to push through.   Naviere Walkewicz  23:46 How have you developed those that have come under your care as a leader that maybe didn't have that athletic background? How do you teach them that? How do you instill in them that “go” mentality, that, you know, fear is just your body's response, gets your blood, you know, your blood flowing. How do you do that as a leader?   Rebecca Gray  24:03 I think, I think you do it by going out ahead and standing out there, and maybe you're the only one out there, so to speak, ahead of it, ahead of the team, in believing whatever direction you need to go, whatever new business direction you need to go in, or what new product line you need to develop, or what new revenue goals do you need to accomplish? And you have to go out there, and you've got to do it yourself. I'm probably more of a working leader than a leader that manages. I'm not the best manager, if you will, but I can get out in front. But I think, for me, it's just been leading out in the head, going out there and saying, this is the direction, building that conversation across the team leaders to make sure we're aligned, to make sure we're thinking the same thing. Are you reading the market the way I'm reading the market? Are you reading some of these leadership decisions within the industry that we're reading? And are we seeing this the same way — bouncing those ideas off and then developing that and that groundswell to really go for it.   Naviere Walkewicz  25:06 I want to ask you this question that's tied to this idea of understanding your capacity, your capabilities, your talents, your strengths, betting on yourself, and how you've been able to do that while you still successfully have a 31-year marri… right? Like a marriage and a family that has to also buy into those decisions. What does that look like as a leader when you're making those decisions, when you have children and a family or a spouse, you know? How do you navigate that when they also have their goals?   Rebecca Gray  25:39 Oh, it's so deep. It's so deep because…   Naviere Walkewicz  25:43 It's real because this is what they're facing. You know, all of our leaders are facing these questions.   Rebecca Gray  25:47 It is, it is. You're facing these decisions back at home, and what you've got to manage at home. You know, my husband, I really lead, and we lead by example — that we take care of our business and we do our things. And as soon as the girls were able to do a lot of things for themselves, we gave them that responsibility. That really helped. I think your kids are pretty capable, and they're really strong and they're very smart and they're wise, and they can feel the energy in the room. They can feel your commitment to them.   Naviere Walkewicz  26:19 Well, I mean, I think what I heard through all that as well, is having those values aligned like you do, and then really communicating and then just championing the responsibility and the capabilities of your family members. It seems like, you know, you don't only just do that at work, but what I'm hearing is you've done this and the home life as well, and it's continued to just really evolve your family in such a beautiful way. So thank you for sharing that with us. Because I think that's really powerful and sometimes when our listeners feel like, “Gosh, I don't know how to make this decision,” I think if you start from that place of, “Are we aligned? Do we know what our core, you know, piece is,” go from there, it seems like you've been able to navigate that really well. Thank you for sharing that. Well, I want to ask you something that you're doing every day, because as leaders… And I'm not sure what your thoughts are on this, maybe you can share, but a lot of people will talk about how “I'm always learning. I'm continuing to learn, even as a leader, I'm still learning every day.” Can you share if that's how you feel, and if so, what are you doing on a daily basis to just be a better version of yourself as a leader, professional, etc.?   Rebecca Gray  27:28 I think when you work out and you get a really good workout, and whatever that is, walking or, you know, at the gym or lifting, or whatever that is, biking or swimming — I think for me, that exercise and reading — those are probably the two things that I really work a lot on, and making sure that's just part of the day. You know, a lot of times we don't have to think too much about eating because we get hungry. But, you know, once you start exercising a lot, and you read a lot, and you have that quiet time — when you don't have it, you miss it, and so you almost get hungry for it. And so to create that consistency, so you can create that hunger. If you do skip it, or you want to skip it. Even when I travel for work, I do it. The girls know that if we're in a hotel, I'm going to go run down to the gym for a little bit. They'll come with me or not, but that's something I'm going to do regardless. And then the reading is really, really critical.   Naviere Walkewicz  28:20 You know, one of the things we also love to ask, and maybe this is a better way to ask it, is, if you were to give advice to your daughters on what they could do today to be better leaders for tomorrow, what would that be?   Rebecca Gray  28:32 I don't know if it's a goal to be a leader, but I think it's a goal to develop and be really well rounded, really solid, because you will default to being the leader. If you have that strength, you have that intellectual capacity, you have the humility. But I think having that humility is really, really critical, the well-roundedness, having different aspects to your life. You know, it can't all be just school and homework, and it needs to be whatever that is music or athletics or, you know, what have you in your faith community or something, you've got to have a well-rounded… because things come and go in your life.   Naviere Walkewicz  29:12 Well, I love how you really put that together. Because I think the key thing was, you know, I don't know that they're necessarily aspiring to be a leader, but if they aspire to be well rounded and that kind of a wholesome approach, they will be the leader in the room. And I just, I just love that, because it just makes it so clear, right? I thought that was incredible. Well, we're coming up at our time, and I just have loved this conversation. Is there anything we didn't cover that you just like, this is a time, like, we want to make sure we didn't miss anything that you would like to share.   Rebecca Gray  29:43 What you're really focused on is really powerful. And connecting the alumni, connecting the families, so that they understand what their child is going through at the Academy is really important. Realizing there's life out of the Academy, and you still need to serve, and you still need to contribute, and there's a way, there's a lot of lessons that we had at those four critical years of our life that can carry us. And I think you're really highlighting that and giving us the space to share some of that. So really appreciate that.   Naviere Walkewicz  30:15 Well, I appreciate you saying that, and I just have to share with our listeners: You know, what I've really taken away from today's conversation is that leadership begins in small moments, a cup of coffee, a conversation, you know, choosing to listen, but it grows through courage, you know, the courage to step into uncertainty, which you've done, to serve where others maybe wouldn't, and to believe in your path, even if it looks unconventional.   Rebecca Gray  30:38 It has, yeah, even if it looks unconventional, that's OK. It's OK too.   Naviere Walkewicz  30:43 And I love that you talked about how it wasn't about the titles, but it was really about the experiences and kind of having that full picture of you and the confidence to bet on yourself. So this has just been a privilege to be with you on Long Blue Leadership I want to thank everyone for listening to this Long Blue Leadership episode. If you know others that are really growing in their leadership journeys and could benefit from this, please share it with them. We love having all of you listen to these wonderful lessons on leadership from our Air Force Academy graduates. So Rebecca, again, thank you so much. We will see you another time, but for now, I'm Naviere Walkewicz, Class of '99. Thanks for joining us.   KEYWORDS Rebecca Gray, leadership lessons, authentic leadership, Air Force Academy, military to corporate transition, women leaders, team connection, career development, executive leadership, Boingo Wireless, building confidence, personal growth, leadership podcast, work-life balance, empowering teams, transformational leadership, continuous learning, squadron commander, leadership journey, remote team management, military experience, family and career balance, purpose-driven leadership, leading by example, leadership advice, mentoring, professional development, inspirational stories, alumni connections, values-driven leadership.       The Long Blue Line Podcast Network is presented by the U.S. Air Force Academy Association & Foundation    

Episode Topic: Hope, Global Stability, and the Role of the U.S.As the United States and the globe face a myriad of complex foreign policy, economic and security challenges, where do we find opportunities to create a more just and peaceful world? Hear General (Ret.) Martin Dempsey and University President Rev. Robert A. Dowd, C.S.C., discuss Dempsey's experiences as the senior leader of the United States Military, an award-winning author, and a professor of leadership and offer insights about the importance of creating a culture of hope and the powerful role of hope in leadership.Featured Speakers:President Rev. Robert A. Dowd, C.S.C., University of Notre DameGen. (Ret.) Martin Dempsey, Duke UniversityRead this episode's recap over on the University of Notre Dame's open online learning community platform, ThinkND: https://go.nd.edu/004f99.This podcast is a part of the ThinkND Series titled Cultivating Hope.Thanks for listening! The ThinkND Podcast is brought to you by ThinkND, the University of Notre Dame's online learning community. We connect you with videos, podcasts, articles, courses, and other resources to inspire minds and spark conversations on topics that matter to you — everything from faith and politics, to science, technology, and your career. Learn more about ThinkND and register for upcoming live events at think.nd.edu. Join our LinkedIn community for updates, episode clips, and more.

New York Times best-selling author Sarah Addison Allen discusses the challenges of rejection and discovering your true voice as a writer. Each month, New York Times best-selling author Wiley Cash handpicks contemporary books by fellow North Carolinian authors (and those writing books set in the state), encouraging listeners to read along and get to know the writers behind the stories. Wiley reviews each book in both the print and digital versions of Our State Magazine - producing two podcast episodes a month. Contact Our State Book Club: podcast@ourstate.com A message from our sponsor, Elon University: The Power of Purpose The 2025-26 Elon University Speaker Series brings purposeful voices to the forefront. Hear from Olympic gold medalist Katie Ledecky, techno-sociologist Zeynep Tufekci and Army intelligence officer Lt. Gen. (Ret.) Robert P. Ashley, Jr., as they explore what drives leaders to make a difference. Visit https://www.elon.edu/u/speaker-series/

The Joe Piscopo Show 11-26-25 38:09- Dr. Darrin Porcher, Retired NYPD Lieutenant, Criminal Justice Professor at Pace University and a former Army Officer Topic: Crime in New York 53:42- Daniel Hoffman, Ret. CIA Senior Clandestine Services Officer and a Fox News ContributorTopic: Russia-Ukraine peace agreement 1:03:19- Jim Landy, Chairman of St Joseph’s Medical Center Topic: Celebrating Yonkers 1:14:28- Stephen Moore, "Joe Piscopo Show" Resident Scholar of Economics, Chairman of FreedomWorks Task Force on Economic Revival, former Trump economic adviser and the author of "The Trump Economic Miracle: And the Plan to Unleash Prosperity Again"Topic: Expenses of Thanksgiving 2025, other economic news 1:30:15- Corey Lewandowski, Trump 2024 Senior Official Topic: Ukraine peace deal, latest from the Trump White House 1:50:24- Lt. Col. Robert Maginnis, a retired U.S. Army officer and an experienced military analyst with on-the-ground experience inside Russia and Ukraine and the author of "Preparing for World War III" Topic: Russia and Ukraine peace negotiations, AI 2:04:54- Alan Dershowitz, Harvard Law Professor Emeritus, host of "The DerShow," and the author of "The Ten Big Anti-Israel Lies: And How to Refute Them with Truth" and the new book "The Preventative State" Topic: Letitia James and James Comey indictments dismissed 2:16:28- Robert Sinclair, Senior Manager of Public Affairs at AAA Northeast Topic: Thanksgiving travelSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Hugh discusses the MLB gambling scandal, antisemitism and socialism in the Democratic Party, Israel's actions against Lebanon, and talks with Ohio Senator Jon Husted, Former Israeli Ambassador to the U.S. Dr. Michael Oren, NewsNation's Leland Vittert, Arkansas Senator Tom Cotton, Vic Matus of the Free Beacon, Adm Mark Montgomery (USN, Ret.), and Doug Lesmerises of The Bill and Doug Show.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

On this episode of the pod, Brian sits down with Ret Taylor, a former founder turned transformational coach, guide and facilitator who helps high-achievers rediscover their wildest, most authentic selves. Over the course of 20 + years in business, Ret has developed the “Misogi System,” a framework combining nature, mindset, and challenge. He now leads deep, purpose-driven experiences, including the wilderness-based Vision Quest, a solo fasted experience in nature.In this conversation we explore:His origin story: what drove him from entrepreneurship into coaching and facilitation; the people and pivotal moments that shaped his path.A deep dive into the Vision Quest: why he created a group version for entrepreneurs, his role as facilitator, what he witnessed, and what he gained.A turn of the table moment: Ret interviews Brian about Brian's own Vision Quest experience: the preparation, the solitude, the reflections, the integration, and what it's been like coming back into everyday life.If you're drawn to conversations that stretch beyond performance and into presence, that tip-toe the line between wilderness, leadership, awakening and living purposefully, this episode is for you.Ret Taylor WebsiteLinkedInInstagram

Drs Kaniksha Desai and Mimi Hu discuss RET inhibitors for advanced medullary thyroid cancer on the Thyroid Stimulating Podcast. This podcast is intended for healthcare professionals only. To read a partial transcript or to comment, visit: https://www.medscape.com/index/list_15483_0 Kaniksha Desai, MD, Associate Professor of Medicine, Department of Endocrinology, Stanford School of Medicine, Palo Alto, California Mimi I. Hu, MD, Professor, Department of Endocrine Neoplasia and Hormonal Disorders, The University of Texas MD Anderson Cancer Center, Houston, Texas

November 21, 2025 ~ Rocky Raczkowski, Ret. Lt Colonel in the US Army discusses the peace deal the US and Ukraine are working on. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See https://pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

On this episode of America at Night with guest host Dom Giordano, we break down a stunning wave of political turbulence as several Democratic members of Congress openly encourage the U.S. military to defy President Trump's lawful commands. Dom speaks with Lt. Col. (Ret.) Allen West — former Congressman, Army veteran, and current Chairman of the Dallas County GOP — for his expert reaction to this unprecedented rhetoric, what it means for the chain of command, and the dangers it poses heading into a volatile election year. They also examine Trump's approval to release long-awaited Epstein files, what information may soon become public, and the national implications once these documents are unsealed. This and more as Dom guides listeners through another night of breaking news, high stakes, and informed conversation. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

As the holidays approach, thousands of American service members will be far from home, deployed around the world, standing watch, and ensuring our nation's safety. The USO, nearly marking 85 years, continues to be a bridge. A bridge to home—delivering comfort, connection, and care when it matters most.Now, under the leadership of Lt. Gen. (Ret.) Michael Linnington, the USO is entering a powerful new chapter, one that honors its enduring legacy while reimagining ways to support the people who serve and their families in today's military.Few leaders understand service and sacrifice like Lt. Gen. (Ret.) Michael Linnington. A 35-year U.S. Army veteran, he has spent his life leading soldiers and supporting their families, from the front lines to the Pentagon. After retiring from active duty, he became the first civilian director of the Defense POW/MIA Accounting Agency, championing the effort to bring every missing service member home. Later, as CEO of the Wounded Warrior Project, Linnington guided a major transformation that expanded programs and strengthened the nonprofit's impact nationwide.Now, as CEO of the USO, Linnington steps in at a defining moment. In 2026, the USO will celebrate its 85th birthday as America celebrates its 250th, two milestones that highlight a shared legacy of service, resilience, and unity. Linnington's vision is to ensure that wherever service members go, the USO goes with them. From installations and airports to ships at sea and remote deployments around the globe. Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/arroe-collins-like-it-s-live--4113802/support.

Thursday's "Connecticut Today" featured host Paul Pacelli wondering if Connecticut should follow in the steps of some other cities and institute free municipal bus rides (00:45). GOP State Rep. Craig Fishbein joined us to talk about a new state audit on a massive backlog of state gun permit appeals cases (14:26). Former Bridgeport Democratic State Rep. Chris Caruso stopped by with his weekly update (23:13), while CBS News Military Analyst U.S. Army Col. (Ret.) Jeff McCausland offered his thoughts on U.S. military strikes being used against suspected drug smuggling boats in the Caribbean (32:15)

In this inspiring episode, hosts Dalton Orwig and Dan Brennan talk with Rickie Richey, CEO of Altaworx and founder of Telecom for Vets — a nonprofit helping U.S. veterans transition into successful careers in telecom sales and entrepreneurship. Rickie opens up about his journey from building a nationwide telecom company to giving back to the veteran community. He shares how his mentorship with Lt. Col. (Ret.) Scott Mann, creator of “Last Out: Elegy of a Green Beret,” sparked the idea to blend workforce development with storytelling and emotional healing.

Gen. (Ret’d) Tom Lawson, Former Chief of the Defence Staff; David Frum, The Atlantic; Mike Duheme, RCMP Commissioner; The Front Bench with: Sharan Kaur, Laura D’Angelo, Jamie Ellerton & Sebastian Skamski.

From aircraft maintenance officer to professional fitness champion to executive coach, Tanji Johnson Bridgeman '97 has exhibited leadership on many stages. SUMMARY In the premiere episode of Focus on Leadership, she joins host Lt. Col. (Ret.) Naviere Walkewicz '99 to share how resilience, self-care and feedback transform challenges into growth — and why caring for yourself is key to leading with presence and impact.   SHARE THIS PODCAST LINKEDIN  |  FACEBOOK    TANJI'S TOP 10 LEADERSHIP TAKEAWAYS Lead with a Whole-Person Approach: Effective leadership requires nurturing mind, body, and spirit, not just focusing on one aspect. Reframe Failure as Feedback: View setbacks as events and learning opportunities, rather than personal flaws or endpoints. Consistency Over Perfection: Strive for regular, sustainable effort and give yourself grace rather than aiming for flawless execution. Self-Reflection Builds Authenticity: Regular reflection (e.g., journaling, meditation) helps clarify values and stay true to yourself as a leader. Executive Presence Matters: Project confidence through body language, eye contact, and purposeful communication to influence and inspire others. Take Inventory and Set Self-Care Rituals: Assess mental, physical, and emotional health, then develop small, habitual self-care practices to maintain energy and focus. Recognize and Address Burnout: Leaders must be attentive to signs of burnout in themselves and others, emphasizing rest, breaks, and boundaries. Normalize and Model Wellness in Leadership: Leaders should model healthy habits and make personal wellness a visible priority to support team well-being. Focus on Connection and Service: Shift focus away from self-doubt by being intentional about serving, connecting, and empowering others. Adapt and Accept Change: Growth requires adapting to new realities, accepting changes (including those related to age or circumstances), and updating strategies accordingly.   CHAPTERS 0:00:06 - Introduction to the podcast and guest Tanji Johnson Bridgeman. 0:01:07 - Tanji shares her journey from the Air Force Academy to wellness and leadership. 0:04:13 - Discussing wellness strategies and advice for cadets and young leaders. 0:12:10 - Recognizing burnout, setting boundaries, and maintaining consistency in habits. 0:17:39 - Reframing failure as feedback with examples from Tanji's career. 0:27:58 - Exploring the concept of executive presence and practical ways to develop it. 0:38:07 - The value of authenticity and self-reflection in leadership. 0:44:21 - Creating sustainable self-care rituals and adopting healthy habits. 1:00:54 - Emphasizing wellness in leadership and the importance of leading by example. 1:02:18 - Final reflections and a summary of key takeaways from the episode.   ABOUT TANJI BIO Tanji Johnson Bridgeman graduated from the United States Air Force Academy in 1997, where she distinguished herself by navigating the rigors of cadet life with both determination and initiative. As one of the first women to serve as Group Superintendent during Basic Cadet Training for the Class of 1999, she honed her leadership and public-speaking skills by addressing hundreds of incoming cadets nightly. Following her commissioning, she served on active duty in the U.S. Air Force — initially in the Academy's admissions office as a minority enrollment officer, then as an aircraft maintenance officer at Fairchild Air Force Base, Washington, where she led over 200 personnel across six specialties supporting KC-135 air-refueling operations. After four years of service, Tanji pivoted to a second career in fitness and wellness, becoming an 11-time professional champion in the International Federation of Bodybuilding & Fitness (IFBB) and competing for 18 years in 54 pro contests. She later leveraged her competitive success and military-honed leadership into executive-presence and lifestyle-coaching, founding the “Empower Your Inner Champion” brand and offering keynote speaking, coaching, and wellness solutions.    CONNECT WITH TANJI LinkedIn Instagram: @OriginalTanjiJohnson   CONNECT WITH THE LONG BLUE LEADERSHIP PODCAST NETWORK TEAM Ted Robertson | Producer and Editor:  Ted.Robertson@USAFA.org Send your feedback or nominate a guest: socialmedia@usafa.org   Ryan Hall | Director:  Ryan.Hall@USAFA.org  Bryan Grossman | Copy Editor:  Bryan.Grossman@USAFA.org Wyatt Hornsby | Executive Producer:  Wyatt.Hornsby@USAFA.org      ALL PAST LBL EPISODES  |  ALL LBLPN PRODUCTIONS AVAILABLE ON ALL MAJOR PODCAST PLATFORMS     FULL TRANSCRIPT Guest, Tanji Johnson Bridgeman '97 | Host, Lt. Col. (Ret.) Naviere Walkewicz '99   Naviere Walkewicz 0:00 If you love the Long Blue Leadership podcast, you'll want to discover Focus on Leadership, a Long Blue Leadership production of the U.S. Air Force Academy Association & Foundation. Here on Focus on Leadership, we move beyond the “why” and dive into the “how,” exploring the habits, mindsets and lessons that turn good leaders into great ones. In each episode, host, Lt. Col. (Ret.) Naviere Walkewicz, Class of '99, sits down with accomplished Air Force Academy graduates and other influential leaders to uncover their stories, their insights and real-world actions that drive excellence. Focus on Leadership: Offering impactful and actionable lessons for today's exceptional leaders. Without further ado, sit back and enjoy this premiere episode of Focus on Leadership. Naviere Walkewicz 0:58 Welcome to Focus on Leadership, where we take a close look at the practices that make strong leaders even stronger. I'm your host, Naviere Walkewicz, Class of '99. Today we're joined by Tanji Johnson Bridgeman, Class of '97, an Air Force Academy graduate whose journey has taken her from aircraft maintenance officer to professional fitness champion, American Gladiator known as “Stealth,” entrepreneur and executive coach. Tanji is here to teach us about leadership through the lens of health and wellness, how caring for yourself physically and mentally fuels your ability to establish presence and lead others with confidence. Tanji, welcome to Focus on Leadership. Tanji Johnson Bridgeman 1:36 Thank you, Naviere. It is so good to be here. Naviere Walkewicz 1:40 Such an honor to see you. I mean, as a ‘99 graduate to have a ‘97 trainer here in the presence, I'm already feeling wonderful. And you know, it's been about 10 years since you've been at your academy. How are you feeling? You came back last evening. What are your thoughts? Tanji Johnson Bridgeman 1:54 Wow, I was here nine years ago for my 20th reunion. I just feel so much gratitude. I mean, it's so surreal. Even last night, we went to work out. And you know, you're driving up the hill towards Vandenberg, and all these memories are coming back to me from the good times. But the biggest thing I'm feeling is pride, you know, pride and gratitude. Because, you know, we don't always reflect, but just being here, it forces you to reflect, like, this is where it all started. I mean, it really started with my upbringing, but the Air Force Academy, my experience here, laid the foundation for who I became, and I'm so grateful for that. Naviere Walkewicz 2:29 Well, let's go back to the fact that right off the bat, you got off the plane, you met me and we went to work out. So wellness, no joke, is right at the top of your foundation. So how did you get into this space? Let's kind of introduce that to our listeners, because I think it's important for them to really understand the depth of what wellness means. Tanji Johnson Bridgeman 2:46 Well, the funny thing about it is I never would have imagined that I would be doing what I'm doing today, because I was a die-hard — I thought I'm going in the military, and I'm staying in for 20 years. So when I was here, you know, I was on the cadet Honor Guard and I cheered, and that's when I fell in love with lifting weights. So I got into competing, even as a lieutenant, and I just I fell in love, and I turned professional. And so there was these transitions where I had an opportunity to be a professional athlete, and I took it, right? And so I became a professional bodybuilder, fitness champion. And then next thing you know, I'm on NBC's American Gladiators. That was wild. And so I did that for a while, and then I became a trainer and a coach and a promoter and a judge, and did all the things bodybuilding. And then I retired in 2016, and that's around the time I met my husband, and so really that's when my real wellness journey began. Because prior to that, it was heavily around physical fitness, but wellness for me began when I transitioned and retired from competing. And really, I had to figure out what is my fitness life going to look like, because it's not going to be working out three times a day on a calorie-deficient diet. Naviere Walkewicz 3:57 Three times a day… Tanji Johnson Bridgeman 3:58 Right, none of that. I was like, I'm done. I'm done. But I really had to design the rest of my life and really figure out what that was going to look like. So I got into functional medicine, health coaching. I married a chiropractor, so we believe in holistic medicine, and that's where it started. Naviere Walkewicz 4:13 Excellent. And so this is not a traditional career path. So let's kind of go back to the cadet mindset. For example: How would you — knowing what you know now — maybe talk to yourself as a cadet, or actually, cadets that might be listening, of what they should be thinking about in this priority space of wellness, in leadership? Tanji Johnson Bridgeman 4:30 Absolutely, I think that's a great question. The disadvantage for young leaders, whether they're cadets or lieutenants, is that they don't have the luxury of having a lot of life experience. And so building a foundation is important, and it takes mindfulness and just, “What should we be aware of?” So what I would want to impart on them is to adopt the philosophy of looking at wellness from a whole-person approach, because high performance is going to demand it. And so when I say whole person, wellness is multi-dimensional. So we want to look at the mindset, we want to look at the body and we want to look at the spirit, and being able to start from a place where you're going to go into all of those. Naviere Walkewicz 5:13 Well, as a cadet, there are so many hats they have to wear. No pun intended. They have to be on top of their game in the academic space. They have to be on top of the game in the military, and then also athletically. Can you talk about, or maybe share an example as a cadet, how you navigated that journey of wellness and what that looked like? Tanji Johnson Bridgeman 5:32 Well, let's go back to — so I didn't get a chance to break down. So mind, body, spirit. Why is that important? Because in anything, any philosophies that we adopt, we have to really see where it's important. So when you think of what is an officer, what is a leader going to have to do with their mind, this is where they have to have clarity. It's going to help with focus, creativity to innovate new solutions. And so we need to be able to prioritize our mindset and our mental health. And then there's the body, right? So a lot of us are going to be going on deployments. We're going to work long hours. Our body is what's going to give us the fuel and energy and the stamina to get through a day. It's literally bringing our energy. And then you think about the spirit, and this one is really special, and it's probably the most neglected. So when you think about the spirit, this is where you're going to anchor in with your emotional health. What is your purpose? What is your “why?” You know, earlier today, I was having a great discussion with Gen. Marks, and he shared with me that one of his goals for the cadets is that when they graduate, you know, they're going to be committed to being leaders, but are they committed — like really committed — and bought in to knowing what their purpose is going to be? And I think that a big part of that is being able to explore their spirit in advance, so they can discover their identity and their strengths in advance and to be able to go off into the leadership and fully own it. And so an example that I would like to present: When I was coaching bodybuilders and female athletes, I remember I started a team. And now this is going to be a team of women that they have the common goal of competing. So they're trying to pursue physical excellence with how they transform their physiques. But what I did was I brought this team together, this sisterhood of women. So a couple of things that I wanted to see, I wanted sisterhood and support. I wanted them to have the commonality of the same goal, and I wanted them to be able to support each other, and I wanted to be able to support them by elevating their mindset. And so one of the things that I did that was really unique at the time, that a lot of other coaches and leaders weren't doing, — when somebody wanted to work with them, they just sign them up. But I would have a consultation. It was kind of more of an interview, because one of the questions I would ask is, “Naviere, why do you want to compete?” And then I'd give them examples, like, you know, “Is this a bucket list? Are you trying to improve your health? Is this for validation and attention? Is this because you're competitive? Because, if you're competitive, and you're telling me that you just started working out last year, maybe we need to wait a couple of years.” You see what I mean. So when you go back to the “why,” it keeps you in alignment to move forward, in alignment with your why, but a lot of people don't know what that is, and sometimes all it takes is asking the question. Naviere Walkewicz 8:17 So the question I'd love to ask you then, is going back to the cadet side, because I think talking to Gen. Marks and the purpose piece, you know, you actually, I think as a cadet, remember, you were on Honor Guard. You were also a cadet… I think you were the cheer captain of our cheerleading team. I feel that that is such a great testament to the fact that you have to figure out, you know, the purpose of, how do I do more and give more and still stay connected to my purpose of where you said in the beginning, “I was going to serve 20 years in the Air Force.” How do our cadets get that same level of interviewer coaching with someone without having that life experience yet? Like, what would you share with them now, from your learning experience? Tanji Johnson Bridgeman 8:55 So when I think back to… OK, so when you look at wellness, and you think of mental wellness, physical wellness, emotional wellness, you know, I think what happens here at the Academy — and I remember starting this way — we prioritize physical fitness, right? I remember being in that fight-or-flight mode like, OK, if I can just show that I am, you know, prioritizing physical fitness, that strength is going to get me respect, and I could definitely feel the difference in how I was treated. The problem sometimes with prioritizing physical fitness… It's great because, you know, it can strengthen your mind. So if your body's feeling strong, your mindset is strong, but it becomes problematic when your body fails. So what happens when you fail? And I have plenty of stories and memories, my goodness, of being on Honor Guard, one that I remember distinctly is, you know, if you had me doing push-ups or pull-ups, oh, I was in a zone. I was impressing everybody. I was passing all the tests, but you put me in a formation where the short people are in the back, you throw a helmet, M1 Garand, and we have to go run 3 miles now, now I'm falling out and I'm getting exhausted. And you know, the body goes — the stress goes up, the blood sugar goes down. It's just physiology, right? And so what happens is, now mentally, my mind is becoming weak. So when the body fails, my mind is getting weak,   Naviere Walkewicz 10:13 And you've been training your body right? Tanji Johnson Bridgeman 10:14 Right, right. And so I look back, and I just, I remember those days in Honor Guard where I would feel doubt, like, “Am I going to make it do? I deserve to be here? Am I good enough?” I would feel discouraged, right? And I would go back to my room and then something happened. So after about two weeks of suffering through this pain and this big challenge, I remember thinking, “Gosh, every time they beat me down physically, I feel so weak mentally. But I was in my room and I remember having anxiety for the next day, like, “Oh, I'm going out there again.” And for some reason that meme, you know, with the Asian guy that says, “But did you die?” Right? That's always in my head, and I remember saying that to myself, like, “It was hard. Today was hard, but did I die?” No. And actually, after two weeks, I'm like, “It's actually getting easier,” like, because I'm getting more fit, right? I'm able to do the push-ups. I'm running further. And I remember that was the mindset shift where I realized, “OK, now, tomorrow, when I go out to practice, I'm not going to be as afraid, because I've already decided that I can do hard things.” And so now, when I was enduring the practice, right, and the leadership of my Honor Guard cadre, I was prepared with that mental strength, right? And so that's what we need. We need to be able to train so that when our body fails, our mind prevails, right? Naviere Walkewicz 11:39 Love that — those three facets of wellness, and that's a really strong way to explain it. And so you gave a couple examples about when the body fails, so when we think about how we're wired, and I think many of us are this way, as cadets, as graduates, as those who really want to succeed in life, right? Thinking about resilience, how do we balance? Or maybe balance isn't the right word, but how do we make sure we're very mindful of that line between healthy discipline and then harmful overdrive. How do you navigate that? Maybe, what would you share with some of our listeners? Tanji Johnson Bridgeman 12:11 Well, you were asking like, how do we recognize when it's happened? You know, the good news is, your body will leave clues. You will have emotional clues, you will have physical clues, you're going to have behavioral clues. Your body will leave clues. So the first thing is, I think that if we can be willing to evolve — you know, look at what culture are we in now, like you and I, we come from a culture where the philosophy was grit at any cost. Push, push, push, push, and drive, drive, drive. You know, I think about, as an athlete, you know, especially if you're motivated. You're thinking, when I was training my body, I remember thinking, “I want to get these results, and so I'm going to do what it takes. So every day I'm doing the lifting, I'm eating the food, and I'm going to train every day.” And I remember on that seventh day, you know, I had done all the things, I took the supplements, I got all the sleep, and I went in to train, and my body was exhausted. And it's because I was physically burning out, and my body needed the rest. And then it really transferred into how I would choreograph my training and so with routine. So I was a fitness competitor. I did these fitness, crazy fitness routines where I'm doing push-ups and squats and gymnastics and flying around, right? And it's two minutes long. So think of doing like a crazy CrossFit routine for two minutes straight without stopping, and smiling. And so I remember being strategic, right? And how I would lay out those practices athletically, where I would do a portion, 30 seconds — I would train 30 seconds at a time, and then the next day I would do the next 30 seconds, a week later I would go for about a minute. But the part I want you to know is, right before the competition, I would decrease that training load. I would actually do less, because the year that I trained full out, all the way up into the competition, I didn't do well on stage because my body was exhausted. So again, our body is going to leave us clues, and we have to be willing to evolve, to say that self-care — it's not selfish, but it's strategic. And so we need to pay attention to those signs, because we're going to have a choice to either pivot and be intentional and strategic with taking care of ourselves, or we're going to stay stuck in this old-school thinking that's not going to serve us. Naviere Walkewicz 14:38 So if it's not the body telling you — because we talk about how wellness is more than just physical — how do you recognize signs on the spiritual side, on your emotional side, that you might be in this harmful space of it's too much give, give, give, and not enough fill, fill, fill. Tanji Johnson Bridgeman 14:55 I think that's a great question. So here's some telltale… So going back to physical, you know, like the examples I gave, you're going to feel exhausted, you're going to have muscle tension, you might even start to have stomach issues. Those are all great physical signs that you're reaching burnout. Now, when you think of mentally, if you notice emotionally and mentally, that you start getting irritable and you've become more impatient and you're having a harder time making decisions, those are also great clues that mentally, you're starting to get burnt out. And then when you think of behaviorally, you know, let's say you had a great morning routine, and now all of a sudden, you find yourself in this season where you've abandoned that, or you have deadlines that you're usually very protective, and you can get things done, but now you're starting to procrastinate, and you're thinking like, “Who am I right now? I'm procrastinating. I've abandoned my wellness routine. I'm not even… I don't even have a morning routine.” That's when you should really step back. And I think one of the practical tools that everyone can do is check in with themselves on a regular basis. So I'm being very transparent. I check in with myself daily. So let's say I do three back-to-back hours of Zoom calls: Maybe ones with an executive coaching clients. Maybe another one is a team Zoom, where I'm training a group of folks, and then another team meeting. After that three hours, I will stop, and I'll check in with myself, and I'll take a deep breath and say, “How am I feeling? Do I feel like getting right back on a call? No, my brain is fried right now.” And then I'll pivot and I'll go take a 10-minute walk around break. And that's just one of my strategies. Naviere Walkewicz 16:30 So it does… A check in doesn't have to be this grand “I take time off and I spend a week.” It literally could just be a few minutes of [breathes deeply] and check in with yourself, because I think sometimes time is a challenge as well, right? We talk about, how do we prioritize all these things and we're within this 24-hour period. How do we make sure that the time piece is something that we can also utilize to take care of ourselves, and so when you said it doesn't have to take a lot of time to check in. Tanji Johnson Bridgeman 16:58 And think about it. So we just talked about how to check in with yourself daily. What about like in your career? You know, I was helping physique athletes with poise mastery, basically teaching posing to athletes for over 15 years, and towards the end of that career, what I started to notice when I would mentally check in with myself, is I would notice that as I was driving to the office to go work with another client, I just did not feel as energized. I didn't feel as passionate. My motivation was going down, and this was a sign for me that I was getting burnt out from this specific way of serving, and it was my first clue that it was time to pivot and to look at something else. Naviere Walkewicz 17:38 That's really interesting, because when you think about when you're making big decisions, whether in career, whether in leadership or just, you know… The fact that you have these signs help you make those decisions, but I also wonder if it helps you at times think about part of the growth is maybe not totally pivoting, but it's recognizing that I'm supposed to go through this period of hardship. So what I'm kind of alluding to right now, is failure, right? So failure, as we go through some of our experiences are inevitable, right? How do we make sure we're using failure in a way to grow, as opposed to the easy button of, well, I failed, so I'm pivoting. Tanji Johnson Bridgeman 18:18 OK, so that would be like a reaction. You're reacting to what happened, and you think what you need to do is flee from it. So you have to be able to discern, “Am I pivoting because I'm afraid, or because I feel like I'm not good enough, or because my purpose and my spirit is telling me that my work is done here, and I'm looking for innovation.” I'm looking for something new. I'm looking to impact new people. So going back to failure — like public speaking, it's one of the top two fears, right?   Naviere Walkewicz 18:52 What's the other? Tanji Johnson Bridgeman 18:53 Oh, public speaking, flying, swimming [laughs]. No, I'm just kidding. Only if you grow up like me. But going back to failure, I think that people fear failure a lot because they make the mistake of connecting it to their identity instead of realizing failure is an event. It's not your identity. And so how many times do we do something, and maybe it's a competition, or it's an event or an application, and you fail. You don't get the desired result. It's an event. So what we need to do is reframe failure as feedback. That's it. So I have a great example. When I think about a great example of someone who was able to show in person, in reality, that when they failed, it did not disrupt their identity at all. So I don't know if there's any boxing fans out there, Naviere Walkewicz 19:46 Oh, we have some, I'm sure. Yeah. Tanji Johnson Bridgeman 19:47 The Canelo and Crawford fight, it was a couple weeks ago. Did you see that? Naviere Walkewicz 19:50 I didn't, but I did hear about this. Actually, honestly, I fell asleep. I planned to watch it. My husband watched it, but I fell asleep. Tanji Johnson Bridgeman 19:57 Oh, they went all the rounds, right? It was a great fight. Really, really great. You saw two physical specimens, you know, at the top of their game. They were both undefeated. I believe Canelo was favored to win, but he didn't. He lost the belt, right? And so Crawford wins. And so I'm always very intrigued with how people respond to failure when it's public, right? And so Crawford got to make his speech, and then when Canelo made his speech, you know, one of the first things they ask is, “OK, so you didn't get the result you were hoping for. You didn't win this bout. How are you feeling?” And he gave an answer that I totally didn't expect. He said, “I feel great.”   Naviere Walkewicz 20:39 Just like that?   Tanji Johnson Bridgeman 20:40 Yes. He was like, “I feel great.” He was like, “It was a great fight,” you know. He affirmed Crawford, you know, edified him. Talked about how great he was, you know, but he maintained his identity, and you could feel that in his spirit. He said, “I feel great. I came out here. I did a great job. I did what I was supposed to do. Obviously, there's room for feedback, to learn. You know, I didn't get the result I wanted. So whether it was endurance or I wasn't strategic enough, or I didn't prioritize my offense, there's feedback there.” He's going to learn from that. But he basically had such a great attitude. And he ended it by saying, you know, “I feel great and it was great time.” And I remember thinking like, “Wow, now there's an example of someone who did not own the failure and make it a part of his identity. It was just an event.” And his legacy will still be restored, right? And to be honest with you, it made me think about my own career. Naviere Walkewicz 21:31 Yes, so did you, have you experienced anything like that in your career? Tanji Johnson Bridgeman 21:34 Have I experienced failure? Over and over again. Naviere Walkewicz 21:39 And how did you respond in your, you know, the wellness side of it, when you think about, you know, what you're trying to do, your purpose. How did you use that? Did you use it as feedback? Or what did that look like for you. Tanji Johnson Bridgeman 21:50 So let's say in sports, if you don't win, then that event is deemed as a failure, right? And so if you think about it, I did 54, I've done 54 professional bodybuilding, fitness competitions.   Naviere Walkewicz 22:04 Wow. OK, what year did you start, just so we can get some perspective?   Tanji Johnson Bridgeman 22:06 I started in 2001 and retired in 2016, so about 17 years. And I won 11 of them. So that means out of, and that's a lot, actually. So out of that many, that means I lost all the others. And there's one particular competition that will always be dear to my heart, and it was the Arnold Classic. Yes, the Arnold Schwarzenegger. You know, he has this gigantic competition every year. And midway through my career, I started I got in the top five. So I would get fourth, and then the next year I'd get third, and then I'd go down to fourth, and then I'd get second, right? I think I got second maybe four years in a row. So basically, in my 10th year of competing, I finally won the darn thing. So Arnold comes from across the stage, and I'm already crying, and, you know, with his accent, “Why are you so emotional?” And there's a picture of me taking the microphone from him because I had something to say, and in that moment, because it was a special moment, I realized, yes, all of these years of failure, every time I competed, I missed the mark. I missed the mark. I missed the mark. But what did I do? I took that feedback and I went back and said, “What do I need to do differently? What does this mean? How can I improve my physique? How did I need better stamina in my routine?” And every year, I was coming back better and better and better. But guess what? So were the other athletes, right? And so when I won in that 10th year, I actually would not have had it any other way, because I don't think it would have meant as much to me. Because what was happening, I may have won the Arnold Classic on that day, but I was becoming a champion throughout that whole 10-year process. You see what I did there. So it's not your identity, it's an event. So if you look at it and reframe it as feedback, then you can leverage that and use it as an opportunity to win. Naviere Walkewicz 24:00 So failure, and we're going to say synonym: feedback. Tanji Johnson Bridgeman 24:03 Exactly. Naviere Walkewicz 24:04 I like that. Tanji Johnson Bridgeman 24:05 I mean, and I'll give you another example. So you know, I did my first TEDx Talk last year, and I was a part of this coaching group. And here's the thing: As leaders, we get to create and build culture. And I think it's very important for leaders to create a culture where they normalize failure and they teach their teams that it's meant to be for feedback. So encourage courage, and then help them leverage the failure or the mistake as lessons learned so that they can grow and move forward. So I'm in this coaching group, and they told us, “We're going to have you send out probably an average of 80 applications. Now we're going to guide you and tell you what to do, but every application is different, because the event promoters are different. So we can't tell you exactly what they all want, but you're going to find out when you apply.” So I remember applying, I think, to UCLA Berkeley or something, and I applied to do a TEDx Talk, and midway through my application, they asked me, what was my scientific evidence and proof of my theory and my great idea? And I didn't have one at the time. And I remember thinking, “I'm going to go ahead and finish this application, but yay, I just got some feedback that I need to include scientific data in my pitch and in presenting my idea.” And it was shortly after, I think I did five more applications and I got selected. And so now I have been so trained to see failure as an opportunity to grow and excel, that when I am afraid of something, I reframe it immediately, and then I actually look forward to it, like, “Oh my gosh, I can't wait to get out there and do this thing, because I'm going to get this feedback, and that's going to make me better.” Naviere Walkewicz 25:39 Well, I think that's really wonderful in the way that you frame that. Because, you know, in the military, and I was actually just at a conference recently, and they were talking about how failure should be a part of training. Failure is actually the most important part of the training, because when it comes time to actual execution, operationally, that's when we can't fail, right? So, like, you want that feedback through all the training iterations, and so, you know, the way you just, you know, laid that out for us, it was in a sense that, you know, you had this framework, “I'm getting feedback, I'm training, I'm training, I'm training.” And then, you know, of course, when you took the champion spot… Tanji Johnson Bridgeman 26:10 And I love… I think back to when I physically learned to appreciate failure was through weight training. And I know you've done it too, because can you go back and remember the first time you know, as a bodybuilder, when you lift weights, you're trying to grow your muscle, and to grow the muscle, the muscle fibers have to tear, and so there has to be a certain level of intensity and hardship in doing that. So if you're one of those people that you go to the gym and you're doing, you know, 15 easy reps, four sets, you never break a sweat, you're toning and you're getting some movement in, but you're not tearing your muscle fibers, and that's probably why they're not growing. So when I worked with the trainer and we were doing overhead military presses, and I physically felt like I was done at about 12 reps, but he was spotting me, so he just kept force repping me through six to eight more. I mean, until my arms were done, and I put my arms down, and they started to float up in the air. And he looks at me, because I'm looking at him, like, “Dude, what are you doing?” I'm like, “Wow, are you trying to hurt me?” And he just said, “No, but I do need you to learn that you're going to have to fail in order to grow and win.” And I was like… So then after that, we're going in the gym, like, “All right, Naviere, we're going to hit failure today. Oh yeah, we're going to learn how to fail.” “Did you fail at the gym last night?” “Yes, I did.” So in the bodybuilding community, it's celebrated. You know, it's a concept where that's we're trying to work through failure because we know it's on the other side. Naviere Walkewicz 27:34 Yes. Oh, I love that. That's fantastic. Well, and then you said you retired in 2016, so that was probably quite a transition in the fact where you had to… You probably have been doing all the wellness check-ins. “Where am I at? What am I thinking?” How did you make that transition into the executive presence space? Because it doesn't seem like it's a direct correlation from someone's body building to executive presence. Or maybe it is. Tanji Johnson Bridgeman 27:58 So, in in body building, I developed a niche. So I started off as a trainer, and then very quickly, probably because of some of my Honor Guard background, I mean, we did precision drill, and I just realized that I can… I learned things really easily, and then I can teach it. I can see something and break it down in detail and teach it. And so I got really good at doing that for the athletes proposing to where I was able to build a whole career and get paid really well through poise mastery. Now what I think? You know when I think back to all the things we had to do as a cadet, from standing at attention, keeping your chest up, you know, your chin in projecting we were all we were already starting to work on our executive presence, but we just didn't know realize it, right? And so in the real world outside of the military, where people are not building habits of standing up straight on a regular basis, they don't. I go into board rooms. I go to events where I see people get on stage. They're looking down, they're fidgeting, they're not making eye contact, they're speaking too softly. And so executive presence is the ability to project confidence in how you show up and the way that you communicate and how you get people to experience you, because, unfortunately, we live in a society where perception shapes opportunity. So as a leader, if you're not commanding that authority right off the bat, you may you may be missing the mark on being able to influence, and that's what leadership is. And so I was basically elevating all of these athletes to just present the best version of themselves, and in leadership, that's what we want, too. We all have strengths, we all have learned skills. We all have something to offer. But if we're not projecting and presenting our inner power externally, a lot of times we miss that mark, and I want to connect the dots. And that's kind of what hit me when I thought about moving into the executive space, is, you know, I can… sure I can teach you how to stand in front of a red carpet and some power poses, but it goes beyond that. It's how we communicate. It's our body language. And so there's, there's a lot of skills that can be learned. Naviere Walkewicz 30:09 Well, let's start with maybe just sharing a couple. How can our leaders, our listeners start to display a stronger executive presence every day? What's the first couple things you might have them start thinking about? Tanji Johnson Bridgeman 30:22 OK, so physically, I would start like, let's say with body language is eye contact. So my concern with this, the generation that we have now is they're dealing with a disadvantage that we didn't have to deal with. You know, when we were in school together 20 years ago, we were connecting all the time. It wasn't even a challenge. We were always together in person, building relationships, connecting, communicating. And now we're in a digital world where our attention is, is we're fighting for it, right? And so a lot of times I will watch people, and I realize whether they're going out to dinner and they are not maintaining eye contact because they're distracted, and they really haven't been, they haven't been trained to really be present. So for example, when you're speaking with someone and you're making eye contact with them. They feel seen,, you know? And so that's, that's one of the strongest ones. OK, Naviere Walkewicz 31:16 OK. I like that a lot. That's perfect. So as they're starting to think about the first thing is being present and making eye contact, from a — that's a physical standpoint. Maybe what, from a mental or emotional standpoint should be they be doing from a starting point for executive presence? Tanji Johnson Bridgeman 31:33 OK, so being intentional. So when you think about your leader, and let's say you're going to speak in front of the Cadet Wing, or you're going to start managing a team, or you're going to a networking event as an executive, and you're trying to pick up a few sponsors. Before you even go to the event, you can be intentional about who am I meeting with, what is my goal and how do I want them to feel. So when you think about networking, a lot of times, there's people, I have a client. You know, she hired me because she has a little bit of social anxiety. She's younger, and so she's on a board where everybody's older than her. So there's a little bit of that mental insecurity of, you know, “Am I good enough? Do I have what it takes? Are these people going to respect me,” right? And so she's coming into the situation already insecure, and she's thinking about herself. “How am I going to be perceived?” instead of going there, focused on connection, right? So if she was to go there and say, “This is who's going to be there. This is how I want to make them feel. So I'm actually going to be very intentional about asking questions that's going to connect with them, that's going to make them feel a certain way. If I want this audience to feel respected, what do I what do I ask them, and what do I say? What do I highlight? If I want them to feel accepted and warm. What can I say?” And so it just gives you more power to show up, be present and be intentional, and you'll feel more confident, because now you've taken the focus away from yourself to how you're going to serve others. Naviere Walkewicz 33:02 That is excellent, and that leads us into a bit of the mental piece of it, right, the mindset. So earlier, you talked about how you had a mindset shift when you were getting beat down in Honor Guard, you know, you're in the back, you know, because of the vertical challenge, and you're running, you know, and you're hanging in there, and you got better. Tanji Johnson Bridgeman 33:19 Well, it makes me think about when I was auditioning for American Gladiators. And again, I'm going to go back to this executive presence and where I use my mental training to serve me, so when I was auditioning, so if you guys don't remember, the old show was, there was no water, right? It was just everything was over big, you know, pillows and just a flat area, OK? So when I went in there to audition, I remember there was for the sake of diversity, there was like, two of everything. There was two Black women there, there was two redheads, two blondes. And I remember looking around thinking, “OK, both of us are not getting this job.” And so the very last part of the audition, after many rounds, is you had to go in front of the executive committee, and you had a one-minute pitch. You could say whatever you want, but they're all sitting there with their arms crossed, and you just get to go in there. And I remember thinking, “OK, I am shorter than her, but I'm more muscular. And, you know, she's been on tons of fitness magazines. She's, you know, super beautiful, more popular. I want to go in there, and I want to be intentional about showing them that what I'm going to present is the right fit for the show.” And so I walked in there and I called the room to attention. I used my Honor Guard diaphragm, and I called the room to attention. And then I went in and I started telling them about how during basic training, I was like one of the pugil stick champions. And they thought that was great, because we had an event for that, right? And so, you know, going back to that mental training, you know, part of it is just that intention of being prepared, you know, what is it that you want to achieve? What are you going to do? And then you strategize and have a game plan for how you're going to go in there. Now, another example: So once I got… I got the job, yay, right? And then we go to Sony studios, and I look at the set, and I realized that half of the set is over water. So half of the events, the joust, Hang Tough, the rock climbing, it's all over water. And you guys remember when I talked about a little bit not, not being a big swimmer. And so this was fascinating to me, but I didn't want anyone to know, because I didn't want to lose my job, right? And so here's where I tapped into my mental and mindset training. So as an athlete, I did this a lot: To preserve my physical body, because of all the gymnastics and routines, I didn't overtrain, because there's damage when you over train. But I would visualize myself going through my movements, and I would picture myself being successful, so I didn't visualize myself messing up or anything like that. And there was, there would be repetition after repetition after repetition. And so what I did to face that fear of having to do events that were going to land me in the water is I had to use logic, you know, so I literally would say, “OK, if I end up being in the joust and I get hit, I'm going to fall in the water. And this is how far away the edge of the pool is. I'm going to take a deep breath. I'm going to I know how to do the stroke, so I'm going to get over there.” But I had to visualize myself falling and then I use logic to just keep myself calm. So I visualize myself hitting the water and being calm, because I would prepare myself to be calm. If I wasn't, I probably would have panicked and drowned. And so I think back to that, and I never told anybody, but I was ready, and I was not afraid, because I had already went through the mental training to prepare myself to do something that I was uncomfortable doing. Naviere Walkewicz 36:50 And so did you fall into the water, and did it play out the way that you had mentally prepared it for? Tanji Johnson Bridgeman 36:56 So here's what's crazy. I'm probably not even supposed to talk about this, but the way they film some of these shows, they're not in sequence. So imagine that I'm filming a water event from Episode 1, 3 and 8. OK, well, for me, like, my third day there, I actually tore my ACL falling off the pyramid. And so, you know, those viewers at home didn't know that. So actually the answer is no, I actually didn't even get put into a water event because I got injured beforehand. But I was ready mentally. Regardless, I was actually disappointed, because I was ready to see that courage come to the surface. Naviere Walkewicz 37:32 Oh my goodness! These are all such wonderful examples of how you have really almost embodied wellness throughout your decisions as a leader throughout your career. I'm really curious, as you think about how you've been true to yourself in this journey, because there's an authenticity to you that only Tanji could bring. And so I'm wondering, how do you know who is your authentic self as a leader, and how have you continued to really show up for yourself in that way? Tanji Johnson Bridgeman 38:07 I think this is very important. And you know, my heart goes out to the young leaders, because, again, like I was saying earlier, they haven't had the experience yet. And I even remember when my sister, my younger sister, she was struggling to figure out what she wanted to do for a living, and she was a college graduate, and she still didn't know. And a lot of it is because when you don't have that personal life experience, you know — experience is a teacher. It tells you, it leaves clues. So when you don't have that, you kind of feel like you're just shooting from the hip trying to figure it out. And so what I think is important is to start the art of self-reflection early. I will never forget I was on a TDY during the Kosovo crisis. I was at RF Mildenhall, and I was a maintainer, and I remember having, you know, a lot, I think, over 200 troops over there, but it was kind of a lonely season for me, because all my peers were pilots, and they were all flying, and, you know, I didn't have anyone to hang out with, and I wasn't home, you know, I was, I was TDY. So I remember just spending my time. I would go to the gym, and then I would go for walks, and I did a lot of journaling. And I don't know why I had the foresight been but I would, you know, ask myself questions like, “Who am I? What matters to me? What values are important to me?” And the process of doing that really helped me solidify my identity. And so, for example, I knew that I thought self-love was really important to me. It was a value that I care about. So when I see people that are self-deprecating, they're talking poorly about themselves. They don't believe in themselves. This hurts my soul. It's a part of who I am, right? And so I've always believed in self-acceptance, you know. For me, as a Christian, you know, I want to celebrate how God made me and have that level of self-love. So when I was a cheerleader at the Air Force Academy, I remember I didn't have self-esteem issues with my body image. Nothing about it, right? And then I go off an become a professional fitness competitor — now I'm competing. And in that industry, breast implants were very prevalent and they were starting to get really popular. And it made me really insecure. So if you think about it, I did not change, but my environment changed. So as leaders, how often are we going to be in situations where your environment is constantly changing and maybe you feel that pressure to conform? And so in my environment, most of the women around me, as a means to an end, were getting breast implants to change how their body looked, to look more feminine, to be more accepted. And there's nothing wrong if that's what you want to do, but I remember feeling like, “Now I'm insecure about my body. Now I don't feel as pretty. Now I don't feel as feminine.” And I remember that being problematic because it wasn't in alignment with my identity. And so, again, knowing what my values are, I thought, “Well, I could go get the operation like a lot of people do. But this is problematic because I don't want to lead a life — and how am I going to go back and coach other women and lead a team if now what I'm saying is whatever is true to who you are and your identity, it's OK to abandon that.” And so, for me, that's why I chose not to have that surgery. And I started this journey — it took about two years — of being able to redefine beauty, redefine femininity. And this is kind of where all the different tools came in. So I started looking in the mirror and I would do positive — because it's self-taught. Instead of looking at my chest and saying, “You're flat and it looks masculine and you're not feminine enough,” I would say, “Girl, do you know what this chest cand do? We can do crazy push-ups.”  And I would say, “Wow, you're strong.” And over time, I changed how I felt about myself. And it was a very proud moment for me, because I look back, and that's why identity is so important. You need to take the time to reflect on who you are, what do you stand for, so that when those moments of pressure come, you're going to be able to make a decision to stay in alignment with who you are. Naviere Walkewicz 42:15 So you said — and maybe it's by grace — that you hadn't really planned. You just started journaling in those moments of quiet when you're feeling a little bit alone as TDY. Is that the best way, you think, to spend some time figuring out who you are? What's important to you? Or are there other tools you might suggest? Tanji Johnson Bridgeman 42:33 There's going to be multiple tools. You know, for me, I like to write. You know, for some people, they will pray and they will just ask a higher being to guide me and to make me more aware, make things known to me. For other people, they're going to meditate. You know, I liked journaling. I also have the strength of curiosity. And so, because of that, I was always not only asking myself a lot of questions, but I was asking other people too. And so, for example, if people don't have that strength of curiosity and they're thinking, “I really don't reflect very much and I'm never asking myself those questions,” you know, you don't necessarily have to journal it, but you can just take time to spend in reflection. But some of the work that I do, I take people through identity activation drills where I will list several, several different lists of values, different lists of strengths, and they'll think about each one and they'll really start to think about, “Let me think of a time where I experienced one of these strengths.” Or, “What's the last thing somebody celebrated?” Or, “What do people tend to tell me or complement?” And then all of a sudden they realize,” I didn't realize this was a strength, but, wow, this is a strength!” And now they can own it because they're aware of it.  Naviere Walkewicz 43:48 That is outstanding. So, you've really taken wellness into practice with everything you've done. You started to elevate others around you to have this ability to discover themselves and then have this executive presence. You know, if all the things you are doing, it takes energy. How are you… Because I know you talked about not overtraining and making sure you preserve that and doing mental reps. Is that really the special sauce? The mental training so that you don't find yourself in a period where you just lack energy and burnout?    Tanji Johnson Bridgeman 44:22 So basically, how do you sustain energy when it comes to wellness? So again, you go back to mind, body and spirit. So what I would do is I would — and this is for each person… You just break it down. You ask yourself, “OK, mind. How am I going to keep energy in my mind? What can I do?”  One of the easiest things to do is to just take a short break. So when I gave you the example of how my mind was working at full capacity for three hours straight. So when I was done, it needed a bit of a reset. And so what I do every day when I'm at home is I go outside and I visit with my chickens. So I have chickens and I have four cats. And so I will take a mental break and it's a habit for me now. I get up from the table and I will walk, because it decreases your stress hormones when you have movement, and I will give my mind a break and I will allow myself to observe. That's my favorite thing: I call it mindful walks where I just go outside and I will just take a moment. You know when they say, “Just stop and smell the roses.” No, seriously.   Naviere Walkewicz 45:28 Or the chickens…   Tanji Johnson Bridgeman 45:29 So the chickens make me smile because when I come out there I typically have treats. But they just come… They bumrush me.  So I go out there and they make me smile and then something wonderous will happen, like I might see my cat just sprinting up a tree and I'm just thinking, “Wow, what a hunter,” right? They're so fast. Then, you know, I see my dahlias that have been sprouting and I just can't believe how fast they grow overnight with sunshine. And that's just 10 minutes. And then I come back in and I instantly feel recharged and I sit down and I'm restored and ready to focus again on the next task. So, mentally, I like taking breaks. When it comes to physically, just getting into movement. And, you know, a lot of times people will think, “Well, I don't have time to go to the gym for an hour.”      Naviere Walkewicz 46:16 Or, “I'm tired already. How am I supposed to go workout?”   Tanji Johnson Bridgeman 46:17 Exactly. So when I think about the body, you know, there's four pillars that you can focus on. And if you feel like you're not mastering any of them, just start with one. So food is one. Food is fuel. And then we have hydration. You know, my husband's mom actually went to the hospital because she works all the time and she had been out in the sun and we discovered that she was dehydrated and it put her in the hospital. So sometimes when we're going after the mission and we're doing one task after — you know, when people forget to drink water and eight hours later you're dealing with brain fog, you're irritable, you don't understand what's happening. But you didn't fuel the body. So hydration, movement, food and sleep. So those are like the four pillars. And I would just ask yourself — so if I'm working with a health coaching client, I would say, “Out of those four areas, where do you want to start?” They'll say, “Sleep. My sleep health is terrible.” And then I can take it step further and say, “Have you heard of a thing called sleep hygiene?” They're like, “What's that?” “Sleep hygiene is literally, what is your sleep ritual? What are your habits to prepare for bedtime? Do you have a consistent bedtime? Do you decrease blue-light therapy? Do you put the phone away? Do you take a bubble bath to relax?” When you think about your environment and what your habits are, when some people tell you, “I do not feel rested,” we look at your sleep hygiene. What's going on? There's things that we can fix, and that's just with sleep. And so I ask people, “Where would you like to start? And you just pick one habit that you can commit to over time and once you've mastered that, you start to habit-stack.” Naviere Walkewicz 47:57 Amazing. So that was — you talked about, from the energy, when it comes to your physical and then your mental. What about from the spiritual side?    Tanji Johnson Bridgeman 48:07 OK, so, this is — and I think this is important because, again, I talk about the spirit is the anchor for your emotional health, right? And so you want to think about activities that's going to feed your soul and your spirit. Now I'll give an example. If you're going through, let's say, a season where you're irritable and you're feeling ungrateful and you're pessimistic and everything just seems bad. We're actually kind of in a season like that right now sometimes. One of the things I do — so this is just an exercise, but it's a gratitude process. Write down 100 things you are grateful for. I did this for three months straight. It took me about 20 minutes, but I got really good at it. And when you have to list out 100 things, you know, at first you might do 20 and you're like, “All right. Where do I go from here?” But you're forced to dig deeper. And when I came up with my 100 list, first of all, I would think about my husband. And 10 things, I would get specific. Grateful for his provision. Grateful for support, for his sense of humor, for his hot, fit body. You know, I'd just go down all the things, right? And then every day I'm grateful for my home, for my physical abilities, for my flexibility, my mobility. You're just in a different frame of mind. And anyone can get there if they choose to do an exercise or a prompt that shifts them from their current circumstance. And that's why I'm most passionate about empowering people that they truly can design their life utilizing these tools. Naviere Walkewicz 49:47 Can you share an example when you've seen someone that was maybe in that season…   Tanji Johnson Bridgeman 49:53 What kind of season? Negative season?   Naviere Walkewicz 49:54 In the negative season. And how going through some of these, kind of, wellness check-ins or activities — what did it allow them to do? What did it open on the other side that changed for them with your help?   Tanji Johnson Bridgeman 50:06 OK, so, one example would be we have social media; we have digital devices. And we can easily… Everything is about habit management and that's one thing I would tell people to do, you know? If you were to take inventory, look at how you live your life every day, and if you were to put every single action you did down as a habit — brush your teeth is a habit. Stop by and grab the Diet Coke is a habit. Sit down on the couch to watch TV is a habit. If you put it in a category of what serves you; what doesn't serve you. You know, one of the most…      Naviere Walkewicz 50:41 So first list out all your habits and categorize them?   Tanji Johnson Bridgeman 50:43 Right, right. So then you would recognize, “Oh my goodness. I have a habit of scrolling Instagram. Or social media.” And then you ask yourself how much time do you spend doing that. “Oh, I get caught up in a loophole of 30 to 45 minutes. And then what are you consuming? You know, so let's say the things that have happened in the last couple of weeks, you know, say something negative happens in society that's getting a lot of public attention and you're just ina rabbit hole reading about that incident over and over and over again. And when you're done scrolling, the question is, “How do you feel after that activity?” And most people would say, “I feel tense. I feel angry. I feel disappointed.” They list off all of these negative feelings. And so what I do is I help them realize, “OK, so does that serve you? Because you were in this negative health space, when you went to dinner with your family or when you went into this next assignment, how did you show up? How did you perform?” And then they realize, “Oh, wow. Not very well. I treated my wife like crap because I was irritable.” And so then you go back again. Your experience… We leave clues with how we're living our lives. So then you go back and you realize, “That is a habit I need to change.  And I just need to make a decision, and I have to have a compelling reason. So let's say you want to work on your marriage and you want to show up better for your spouse, but you're always showing up with negative energy because of this habit that you do right when you get home, then you can — so we just come up with a plan, and it's different for each person. You know, “What could you do that would be more positive?” “I could come home play a game with my kid, because, you know, my kid is amazing, and it makes me smile and laugh,” and you're in a good mood, you know? And this is why, if I am stressed during the day, I already know if I get exposed to my chickens, my cat, or just go outside, I'm so mesmerized by the beauty of nature. All of those things I know fill me in a positive way. And so I am very intentional and aware of when I need to shift, and I know what my go-to are. So when I work with clients, I help them discover what their database of go-tos are going to be. The first part is just helping them become more aware of when it's happening so they can decide to shift. Naviere Walkewicz 52:57 Right. So that awareness is really critical, but then the next step is probably the discipline and actually doing something about it?   Tanji Johnson Bridgeman 53:07 Right. Naviere Walkewicz 53:08 How can you take the lessons that you've had in bodybuilding, and then, you know, in all of your journey to help those now move from the awareness bucket to actually…   Tanji Johnson Bridgeman 53:17 To making it happen? So I think that the first goal should be consistency, not perfection, right? And I learned this the hard way as a bodybuilder, because in the beginning of my career, I hated dieting. I've always hated dieting. I love food.   Naviere Walkewicz 53:31 You and I are kindred spirits in that way.   Tanji Johnson Bridgeman 53:32 I don't mind being, yes, I don't mind being on a structured, you know, meal plan. But, you know, being on a strict diet can be hard, so anytime you set a goal to do something that is difficult, you know, the first thing that I tried to do was be perfect. So I would hire a coach, and my nutritionist would tell me, “This is what you're supposed to eat for meal one, two, three, four, exactly down to the macros. And maybe I would do great for three days. And then, you know, I would fail. I would cheat or have something I'm not supposed to have, and I would feel so bad again. Going back to a lot of these principles are coming back up. I was letting the failure identified me as a bad person, so now I'm feeling shame, and that's making me feel discouraged. And I kept doing this thing, like, “Well, I blew it, so I'm just gonna take the whole day off.” Like, how dumb is that, right? Like, there's four more meals you can eat and you're just gonna sabotage the rest of the four. So think about if I did that every day. So if you messed up every day and you sabotage three out of the six meals every single day, where would you be at the end of the week?   Naviere Walkewicz 54:31 Worse off. Tanji Johnson Bridgeman 54:32 Fat. [Laughs] No, I'm just kidding,   Naviere Walkewicz 54:33 Worse off than you were when you started.   Tanji Johnson Bridgeman 54:35 You would be, with no results.   Naviere Walkewicz 54:37 No more Oreos in the house so you wouldn't have to worry about eating them anymore. Tanji Johnson Bridgeman 54:40 So that's when I realized, “Oh, I'm getting caught up with perfection, and that's causing me to sabotage.” So then I changed. I said 80/20, 90/10, I just want to be consistent. And so when you fail, you know you give yourself that grace, right? And so I always like to say courage, grit and grace. You have to have the courage to do something uncomfortable, the grit to endure and then the grace to embrace when you've messed up and then move forward. And so the first thing I would do with wellness habits is, you know, you build one habit at a time, and you do what you can to be consistent, and when you fail, again, here's that theme, you take that failure as feedback. “Why did you fail? Did you get hungry? Did you have temptation in the house? Did you not set your alarm?” Right? You know? “What could you do differently?” And then you just recommit to being consistent. Naviere Walkewicz 55:31 That is excellent. So talking about everything, this has been a wonderful conversation. When I think about lasting impact, right? So you know, you've had this incredible journey. You've helped people understand how to be more aware of their wellness, how to take action, be consistent and really drive change. What is one challenge you might have our listeners take in the w

Guest: Michael Geller, Ret. Architect & President of The Geller Group Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

B.C. lawyers are being threatened with extortion (0:53) Guest: Steve Kooner, B.C. Conservative MLA & Attorney General Critic How long must you live in Canada before you are no longer a colonist or settler? (11:15) Guest: Pete McMartin, Columnist at Vancouver Sun The era of the shoebox condo is over (22:13) Guest: Michael Geller, Ret. Architect & President of The Geller Group Liberals survive crucial confidence vote on budget in win for Carney (32:40) Guest: David Akin, Global News Chief Political Correspondent Alan Doyle's new book explores Newfoundland (43:07) Guest: Alan Doyle, lead singer of Great Big Sea and author of The Smiling Land Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

36:53- John Solomon, award-winning investigative journalist, founder of "Just The News," and the host of “Just the News, No Noise” on the Real America’s Voice network Topic: Trump throwing support behind release of Epstein documents, end of the shutdown, aftermath of the elections 50:56- Daniel Hoffman, Ret. CIA Senior Clandestine Services Officer and a Fox News ContributorTopic: Putin using multiple matching offices in different locations to hide location 1:26:50- Alan Dershowitz, Harvard Law Professor Emeritus, host of "The DerShow," and the author of "The Ten Big Anti-Israel Lies: And How to Refute Them with Truth" and the new book "The Preventative State" Topic: O.J. Simpson estate to pay $58 million to the family of Ron Goldman 1:38:41- Chris Grollnek, Retired Police Detective Corporal and Active Shooting ExpertTopic: Newark shooting 2:00:58- Dr. Rebecca Grant, national security analyst based in Washington, D.C. Specializing in defense and aerospace research, founder of IRIS Independent Research, and Senior Fellow at the Lexington Institute Topic: U.S.-China race for air dominance 2:10:41- Dr. Darrin Porcher, Retired NYPD Lieutenant, Criminal Justice Professor at Pace University and a former Army Officer Topic: Newark shooting, Jets Cornerback Kris Boyd in critical condition after NYC shootingSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

ASHP's senior education director, Cindy Von Heeringen is joined by William Dager, pharmacist specialist (Ret.) at University of California, Davis Medical Center, as he discusses his upcoming Midyear session that focuses on anticoagulation management plans in complex patients. The information presented during the podcast reflects solely the opinions of the presenter. The information and materials are not, and are not intended as, a comprehensive source of drug information on this topic. The contents of the podcast have not been reviewed by ASHP, and should neither be interpreted as the official policies of ASHP, nor an endorsement of any product(s), nor should they be considered as a substitute for the professional judgment of the pharmacist or physician.

By J. Overton Lt. Col. Craig Whiteside, (Ret.) PhD., joins the program to discuss the new book he co-authored with Ian Rice, Non-state Special Operations: Capabilities and Effects. Dr. Whiteside shares how to define and apply terms like “non-state” and “special operations, historical examples of this type of operation, their use by contemporary actors, and … Continue reading Sea Control 589: Non-state Special Operations with Craig Whiteside →

Ret. Col. George Youstra - Guest Speaker - Weekend Sermon Podcast - www.auburngrace.com

"It's critical to identify those mutations found that are driving the cancer's growth and guide the personalized treatment based on those results. And important to remember, too, early testing is crucial for patients with non-small cell lung cancer (NSCLC). In studies, it has been found to be associated with improved survival outcomes and reduced mortality," ONS member Vicki Doctor, MS, BSN, BSW, RN, OCN®, precision medicine director at the City of Hope Atlanta, GA, Chicago, IL, and Phoenix, AZ, locations, told Jaime Weimer, MSN, RN, AGCNS-BS, AOCNS®, manager of oncology nursing practice at ONS, during a conversation about the oncology nurse's role in NSCLC biomarker testing. Music Credit: "Fireflies and Stardust" by Kevin MacLeod Licensed under Creative Commons by Attribution 3.0  This podcast is sponsored by Lilly Oncology and is not eligible for NCPD contact hours. ONS is solely responsible for the criteria, objectives, content, quality, and scientific integrity of its programs and publications. Episode Notes  This episode is not eligible for NCPD. ONS Podcast™ episodes: Episode 363: Lung Cancer Treatment Considerations for Nurses Episode 359: Lung Cancer Screening, Early Detection, and Disparities Episode 238: Cancer Genomics for Every Oncology Nurse Episode 157: Biomarker Testing Improves Outcomes for Patients With Non-Small Cell Lung Cancer ONS Voice articles: Non-Small Cell Lung Cancer Prevention, Screening, Diagnosis, Treatment, Side Effects, and Survivorship Only a Third of Patients With Advanced Cancer Get Biomarker Testing, Limiting Use of Potentially Effective Precision Therapies Precision Medicine in Lung Cancer: How Comprehensive Testing Optimizes Patient Outcomes Targeted Therapies Are Transforming the Treatment of Non-Small Cell Lung Cancer ONS book: Guide to Cancer Immunotherapy (second edition) ONS course: Genomic Foundations for Precision Oncology Clinical Journal of Oncology Nursing article: Using Nurse Navigators to Improve Timeliness of Biomarker Testing for Non-Small Cell Lung Cancer Oncology Nursing Forum article: Precision Medicine Testing and Disparities in Health Care for Individuals With Non-Small Cell Lung Cancer: A Narrative Review Other ONS resources: Best Practices for Biomarker Testing in Non-Small Cell Lung Cancer: A Case Study Genomics and Precision Oncology Learning Library Genomics Case Study: Precision Medicine in the Setting of Metastatic Non-Small Cell Lung Cancer Biomarker Database (refine by non-small cell lung cancer) Genomic Biomarkers Huddle Card Targeted Therapy Huddle Card National Comprehensive Cancer Network homepage To discuss the information in this episode with other oncology nurses, visit the ONS Communities.  To find resources for creating an ONS Podcast club in your chapter or nursing community, visit the ONS Podcast Library. To provide feedback or otherwise reach ONS about the podcast, email pubONSVoice@ons.org Highlights From This Episode "These biomarkers are used to provide information about cancer's characteristics or behavior. In oncology precision medicine specifically, molecular tests can help with diagnosing a cancer that is maybe an unknown primary. It can help with monitoring response to therapy, detect recurrence of disease before other tests can find that, predict prognosis or how aggressive the cancer may be, and guide treatment decisions for targeted therapies." TS 3:14 "Some of the key biomarkers recommended by the National Comprehensive Cancer Network (NCCN) to be tested in patients who have NSCLC are EGFR, ALK, KRAS, BRAF, MET exon 14 skipping mutation, HER2 which is a protein expression from an ErbB protein, PD-L1 which is a protein expression that's used to guide immunotherapy choices, and then finally there are three fusions: ROS1, RET, and NTRK. [These] are pretty rare but really important to be tested for in patients who have NSCLC." TS 3:46 "Another important challenge for nurses related to this topic is that these results may not reveal a targeted mutation for the patient and that could be very disappointing. So, being able to provide that emotional support to a patient if they have that result … you can actually reinforce with them that if [they] go onto another treatment that the physician decides to put [them] on, the tumor can change. New pathogenic variants can develop based on the treatment that they're getting, and another test can be done. And maybe at that time—a new biomarker that could be targeted—we'd be seeing on the new test." TS 7:32  "Another circumstance we didn't talk about yet is that maybe the result came back saying that the quality was not sufficient. And sometimes that happens, but that doesn't mean that we're at the end of the road, necessarily. So, you could explain to the patient that that may mean that possibly, a new biopsy would be ordered by the physician. Or if a new biopsy or another tissue sample is not available, then maybe the physician would pivot to sending a blood specimen for the molecular testing. So that would definitely be a way [nurses] could support their patients." TS 11:52 "In the case of patients with NSCLC, early testing is so important. So, advocating for that prompt biomarker testing to be done, making sure that it's comprehensive, that it's actually looking for all of those—I think it was 12 biomarkers—that I mentioned earlier. That this testing is done as soon as possible after diagnosis or progression. Something that I talk about all the time—personalized care, precision medicine—really matters. So, tailoring treatments for patients based on the biology of the tumor that's driving the cancer's growth is really crucial if you're going to be working as an oncology nurse. Another crucial thing, because it's changing so quickly, is to stay informed." TS 16:23

Hugh discusses the reopening of the government and the rise of socialism on the Left with Noah Rothman, John Podhoretz, Josh Kraushaar, Adm. Mark Montgomery (USN, Ret.), Jim Talent, Dr. Michael Oren, and a long conversation with Haviv Rettig Gur.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

How are the federal courts faring during these tumultuous times? I thought it would be worthwhile to discuss this important subject with a former federal judge: someone who understands the judicial role well but could speak more freely than a sitting judge, liberated from the strictures of the bench.Meet Judge Nancy Gertner (Ret.), who served as a U.S. District Judge for the District of Massachusetts from 1994 until 2011. I knew that Judge Gertner would be a lively and insightful interviewee—based not only on her extensive commentary on recent events, reflected in media interviews and op-eds, but on my personal experience. During law school, I took a year-long course on federal sentencing with her, and she was one of my favorite professors.When I was her student, we disagreed on a lot: I was severely conservative back then, and Judge Gertner was, well, not. But I always appreciated and enjoyed hearing her views—so it was a pleasure hearing them once again, some 25 years later, in what turned out to be an excellent conversation.Show Notes:* Nancy Gertner, author website* Nancy Gertner bio, Harvard Law School* In Defense of Women: Memoirs of an Unrepentant Advocate, AmazonPrefer reading to listening? For paid subscribers, a transcript of the entire episode appears below.Sponsored by:NexFirm helps Biglaw attorneys become founding partners. To learn more about how NexFirm can help you launch your firm, call 212-292-1000 or email careerdevelopment@nexfirm.com.Three quick notes about this transcript. First, it has been cleaned up from the audio in ways that don't alter substance—e.g., by deleting verbal filler or adding a word here or there to clarify meaning. Second, my interviewee has not reviewed this transcript, and any errors are mine. Third, because of length constraints, this newsletter may be truncated in email; to view the entire post, simply click on “View entire message” in your email app.David Lat: Welcome to the Original Jurisdiction podcast. I'm your host, David Lat, author of a Substack newsletter about law and the legal profession also named Original Jurisdiction, which you can read and subscribe to at davidlat.substack.com. You're listening to the eighty-fifth episode of this podcast, recorded on Monday, November 3.Thanks to this podcast's sponsor, NexFirm. NexFirm helps Biglaw attorneys become founding partners. To learn more about how NexFirm can help you launch your firm, call 212-292-1000 or email careerdevelopment@nexfirm.com. Want to know who the guest will be for the next Original Jurisdiction podcast? Follow NexFirm on LinkedIn for a preview.Many of my guests have been friends of mine for a long time—and that's the case for today's. I've known Judge Nancy Gertner for more than 25 years, dating back to when I took a full-year course on federal sentencing from her and the late Professor Dan Freed at Yale Law School. She was a great teacher, and although we didn't always agree—she was a professor who let students have their own opinions—I always admired her intellect and appreciated her insights.Judge Gertner is herself a graduate of Yale Law School—where she met, among other future luminaries, Bill and Hillary Clinton. After a fascinating career in private practice as a litigator and trial lawyer handling an incredibly diverse array of cases, Judge Gertner was appointed to serve as a U.S. District Judge for the District of Massachusetts in 1994, by President Clinton. She retired from the bench in 2011, but she is definitely not retired: she writes opinion pieces for outlets such as The New York Times and The Boston Globe, litigates and consults on cases, and trains judges and litigators. She's also working on a book called Incomplete Sentences, telling the stories of the people she sentenced over 17 years on the bench. Her autobiography, In Defense of Women: Memoirs of an Unrepentant Advocate, was published in 2011. Without further ado, here's my conversation with Judge Nancy Gertner.Judge, thank you so much for joining me.Nancy Gertner: Thank you for inviting me. This is wonderful.DL: So it's funny: I've been wanting to have you on this podcast in a sense before it existed, because you and I worked on a podcast pilot. It ended up not getting picked up, but perhaps they have some regrets over that, because legal issues have just blown up since then.NG: I remember that. I think it was just a question of scheduling, and it was before Trump, so we were talking about much more sophisticated, superficial things, as opposed to the rule of law and the demise of the Constitution.DL: And we will get to those topics. But to start off my podcast in the traditional way, let's go back to the beginning. I believe we are both native New Yorkers?NG: Yes, that's right. I was born on the Lower East Side of Manhattan, in an apartment that I think now is a tenement museum, and then we moved to Flushing, Queens, where I lived into my early 20s.DL: So it's interesting—I actually spent some time as a child in that area. What was your upbringing like? What did your parents do?NG: My father owned a linoleum store, or as we used to call it, “tile,” and my mother was a homemaker. My mother worked at home. We were lower class on the Lower East Side and maybe made it to lower-middle. My parents were very conservative, in the sense they didn't know exactly what to do with a girl who was a bit of a radical. Neither I nor my sister was precisely what they anticipated. So I got to Barnard for college only because my sister had a conniption fit when he wouldn't pay for college for her—she's my older sister—he was not about to pay for college. If we were boys, we would've had college paid for.In a sense, they skipped a generation. They were actually much more traditional than their peers were. My father was Orthodox when he grew up; my mother was somewhat Orthodox Jewish. My father couldn't speak English until the second grade. So they came from a very insular environment, and in one sense, he escaped that environment when he wanted to play ball on Saturdays. So that was actually the motivation for moving to Queens: to get away from the Lower East Side, where everyone would know that he wasn't in temple on Saturday. We used to have interesting discussions, where I'd say to him that my rebellion was a version of his: he didn't want to go to temple on Saturdays, and I was marching against the war. He didn't see the equivalence, but somehow I did.There's actually a funny story to tell about sort of exactly the distance between how I was raised and my life. After I graduated from Yale Law School, with all sorts of honors and stuff, and was on my way to clerk for a judge, my mother and I had this huge fight in the kitchen of our apartment. What was the fight about? Sadie wanted me to take the Triborough Bridge toll taker's test, “just in case.” “You never know,” she said. I couldn't persuade her that it really wasn't necessary. She passed away before I became a judge, and I told this story at my swearing-in, and I said that she just didn't understand. I said, “Now I have to talk to my mother for a minute; forgive me for a moment.” And I looked up at the rafters and I said, “Ma, at last: a government job!” So that is sort of the measure of where I started. My mother didn't finish high school, my father had maybe a semester of college—but that wasn't what girls did.DL: So were you then a first-generation professional or a first-generation college graduate?NG: Both—my sister and I were both, first-generation college graduates and first-generation professionals. When people talk about Jewish backgrounds, they're very different from one another, and since my grandparents came from Eastern European shtetls, it's not clear to me that they—except for one grandfather—were even literate. So it was a very different background.DL: You mentioned that you did go to Yale Law School, and of course we connected there years later, when I was your student. But what led you to go to law school in the first place? Clearly your parents were not encouraging your professional ambitions.NG: One is, I love to speak. My husband kids me now and says that I've never met a microphone I didn't like. I had thought for a moment of acting—musical comedy, in fact. But it was 1967, and the anti-war movement, a nascent women's movement, and the civil rights movement were all rising around me, and I wanted to be in the world. And the other thing was that I didn't want to do anything that women do. Actually, musical comedy was something that would've been okay and normal for women, but I didn't want to do anything that women typically do. So that was the choice of law. It was more like the choice of law professor than law, but that changed over time.DL: So did you go straight from Barnard to Yale Law School?NG: Well, I went from Barnard to Yale graduate school in political science because as I said, I've always had an academic and a practical side, and so I thought briefly that I wanted to get a Ph.D. I still do, actually—I'm going to work on that after these books are finished.DL: Did you then think that you wanted to be a law professor when you started at YLS? I guess by that point you already had a master's degree under your belt?NG: I thought I wanted to be a law professor, that's right. I did not think I wanted to practice law. Yale at that time, like most law schools, had no practical clinical courses. I don't think I ever set foot in a courtroom or a courthouse, except to demonstrate on the outside of it. And the only thing that started me in practice was that I thought I should do at least two or three years of practice before I went back into the academy, before I went back into the library. Twenty-four years later, I obviously made a different decision.DL: So you were at YLS during a very interesting time, and some of the law school's most famous alumni passed through its halls around that period. So tell us about some of the people you either met or overlapped with at YLS during your time there.NG: Hillary Clinton was one of my best friends. I knew Bill, but I didn't like him.DL: Hmmm….NG: She was one of my best friends. There were 20 women in my class, which was the class of ‘71. The year before, there had only been eight. I think we got up to 21—a rumor had it that it was up to 21 because men whose numbers were drafted couldn't go to school, and so suddenly they had to fill their class with this lesser entity known as women. It was still a very small number out of, I think, what was the size of the opening class… 165? Very small. So we knew each other very, very well. And Hillary and I were the only ones, I think, who had no boyfriends at the time, though that changed.DL: I think you may have either just missed or briefly overlapped with either Justice Thomas or Justice Alito?NG: They're younger than I am, so I think they came after.DL: And that would be also true of Justice Sotomayor then as well?NG: Absolutely. She became a friend because when I was on the bench, I actually sat with the Second Circuit, and we had great times together. But she was younger than I was, so I didn't know her in law school, and by the time she was in law school, there were more women. In the middle of, I guess, my first year at Yale Law School, was the first year that Yale College went coed. So it was, in my view, an enormously exciting time, because we felt like we were inventing law. We were inventing something entirely new. We had the first “women in the law” course, one of the first such courses in the country, and I think we were borderline obnoxious. It's a little bit like the debates today, which is that no one could speak right—you were correcting everyone with respect to the way they were describing women—but it was enormously creative and exciting.DL: So I'm gathering you enjoyed law school, then?NG: I loved law school. Still, when I was in law school, I still had my feet in graduate school, so I believe that I took law and sociology for three years, mostly. In other words, I was going through law school as if I were still in graduate school, and it was so bad that when I decided to go into practice—and this is an absolutely true story—I thought that dying intestate was a disease. We were taking the bar exam, and I did not know what they were talking about.DL: So tell us, then, what did lead you to shift gears? You mentioned you clerked, and you mentioned you wanted to practice for a few years—but you did practice for more than a few years.NG: Right. I talk to students about this all the time, about sort of the fortuities that you need to grab onto that you absolutely did not plan. So I wind up at a small civil-rights firm, Harvey Silverglate and Norman Zalkind's firm. I wind up in a small civil-rights firm because I couldn't get a job anywhere else in Boston. I was looking in Boston or San Francisco, and what other women my age were encountering, I encountered, which is literally people who told me that I would never succeed as a lawyer, certainly not as a litigator. So you have to understand, this is 1971. I should say, as a footnote, that I have a file of everyone who said that to me. People know that I have that file; it's called “Sexist Tidbits.” And so I used to decide whether I should recuse myself when someone in that file appeared before me, but I decided it was just too far.So it was a small civil-rights firm, and they were doing draft cases, they were doing civil-rights cases of all different kinds, and they were doing criminal cases. After a year, the partnership between Norman Zalkind and Harvey Silverglate broke up, and Harvey made me his partner, now an equal partner after a year of practice.Shortly after that, I got a case that changed my career in so many ways, which is I wound up representing Susan Saxe. Susan Saxe was one of five individuals who participated in robberies to get money for the anti-war movement. She was probably five years younger than I was. In the case of the robbery that she participated in, a police officer was killed. She was charged with felony murder. She went underground for five years; the other woman went underground for 20 years.Susan wanted me to represent her, not because she had any sense that I was any good—it's really quite wonderful—she wanted me to represent her because she figured her case was hopeless. And her case was hopeless because the three men involved in the robbery either fled or were immediately convicted, so her case seemed to be hopeless. And she was an extraordinarily principled woman: she said that in her last moment on the stage—she figured that she'd be convicted and get life—she wanted to be represented by a woman. And I was it. There was another woman in town who was a public defender, but I was literally the only private lawyer. I wrote about the case in my book, In Defense of Women, and to Harvey Silvergate's credit, even though the case was virtually no money, he said, “If you want to do it, do it.”Because I didn't know what I was doing—and I literally didn't know what I was doing—I researched every inch of everything in the case. So we had jury research and careful jury selection, hiring people to do jury selection. I challenged the felony-murder rule (this was now 1970). If there was any evidentiary issue, I would not only do the legal research, but talk to social psychologists about what made sense to do. To make a long story short, it took about two years to litigate the case, and it's all that I did.And the government's case was winding down, and it seemed to be not as strong as we thought it was—because, ironically, nobody noticed the woman in the bank. Nobody was noticing women in general; nobody was noticing women in the bank. So their case was much weaker than we thought, except there were two things, two letters that Susan had written: one to her father, and one to her rabbi. The one to her father said, “By the time you get this letter, you'll know what your little girl is doing.” The one to her rabbi said basically the same thing. In effect, these were confessions. Both had been turned over to the FBI.So the case is winding down, not very strong. These letters have not yet been introduced. Meanwhile, The Boston Globe is reporting that all these anti-war activists were coming into town, and Gertner, who no one ever heard of, was going to try the Vietnam War. The defense will be, “She robbed a bank to fight the Vietnam War.” She robbed a bank in order to get money to oppose the Vietnam War, and the Vietnam War was illegitimate, etc. We were going to try the Vietnam War.There was no way in hell I was going to do that. But nobody had ever heard of me, so they believed anything. The government decided to rest before the letters came in, anticipating that our defense would be a collection of individuals who were going to challenge the Vietnam War. The day that the government rested without putting in those two letters, I rested my case, and the case went immediately to the jury. I'm told that I was so nervous when I said “the defense rests” that I sounded like Minnie Mouse.The upshot of that, however, was that the jury was 9-3 for acquittal on the first day, 10-2 for acquittal on the second day, and then 11-1 for acquittal—and there it stopped. It was a hung jury. But it essentially made my career. I had first the experience of pouring my heart into a case and saving someone's life, which was like nothing I'd ever felt before, which was better than the library. It also put my name out there. I was no longer, “Who is she?” I suddenly could take any kind of case I wanted to take. And so I was addicted to trials from then until the time I became a judge.DL: Fill us in on what happened later to your client, just her ultimate arc.NG: She wound up getting eight years in prison instead of life. She had already gotten eight years because of a prior robbery in Philadelphia, so there was no way that we were going to affect that. She had pleaded guilty to that. She went on to live a very principled life. She's actually quite religious. She works in the very sort of left Jewish groups. We are in touch—I'm in touch with almost everyone that I've ever known—because it had been a life-changing experience for me. We were four years apart. Her background, though she was more middle-class, was very similar to my own. Her mother used to call me at night about what Susan should wear. So our lives were very much intertwined. And so she was out of jail after eight years, and she has a family and is doing fine.DL: That's really a remarkable result, because people have to understand what defense lawyers are up against. It's often very challenging, and a victory is often a situation where your client doesn't serve life, for example, or doesn't, God forbid, get the death penalty. So it's really interesting that the Saxe case—as you talk about in your wonderful memoir—really did launch your career to the next level. And you wound up handling a number of other cases that you could say were adjacent or thematically related to Saxe's case. Maybe you can talk a little bit about some of those.NG: The women's movement was roaring at this time, and so a woman lawyer who was active and spoke out and talked about women's issues invariably got women's cases. So on the criminal side, I did one of the first, I think it was the first, battered woman syndrome case, as a defense to murder. On the civil side, I had a very robust employment-discrimination practice, dealing with sexual harassment, dealing with racial discrimination. I essentially did whatever I wanted to do. That's what my students don't always understand: I don't remember ever looking for a lucrative case. I would take what was interesting and fun to me, and money followed. I can't describe it any other way.These cases—you wound up getting paid, but I did what I thought was meaningful. But it wasn't just women's rights issues, and it wasn't just criminal defense. We represented white-collar criminal defendants. We represented Boston Mayor Kevin White's second-in-command, Ted Anzalone, also successfully. I did stockholder derivative suits, because someone referred them to me. To some degree the Saxe case, and maybe it was also the time—I did not understand the law to require specialization in the way that it does now. So I could do a felony-murder case on Monday and sue Mayor Lynch on Friday and sue Gulf Oil on Monday, and it wouldn't even occur to me that there was an issue. It was not the same kind of specialization, and I certainly wasn't about to specialize.DL: You anticipated my next comment, which is that when someone reads your memoir, they read about a career that's very hard to replicate in this day and age. For whatever reason, today people specialize. They specialize at earlier points in their careers. Clients want somebody who holds himself out as a specialist in white-collar crime, or a specialist in dealing with defendants who invoke battered woman syndrome, or what have you. And so I think your career… you kind of had a luxury, in a way.NG: I also think that the costs of entry were lower. It was Harvey Silverglate and me, and maybe four or five other lawyers. I was single until I was 39, so I had no family pressures to speak of. And I think that, yes, the profession was different. Now employment discrimination cases involve prodigious amounts of e-discovery. So even a little case has e-discovery, and that's partly because there's a generation—you're a part of it—that lived online. And so suddenly, what otherwise would have been discussions over the back fence are now text messages.So I do think it's different—although maybe this is a comment that only someone who is as old as I am can make—I wish that people would forget the money for a while. When I was on the bench, you'd get a pro se case that was incredibly interesting, challenging prison conditions or challenging some employment issue that had never been challenged before. It was pro se, and I would get on the phone and try to find someone to represent this person. And I can't tell you how difficult it was. These were not necessarily big cases. The big firms might want to get some publicity from it. But there was not a sense of individuals who were going to do it just, “Boy, I've never done a case like this—let me try—and boy, this is important to do.” Now, that may be different today in the Trump administration, because there's a huge number of lawyers that are doing immigration cases. But the day-to-day discrimination cases, even abortion cases, it was not the same kind of support.DL: I feel in some ways you were ahead of your time, because your career as a litigator played out in boutiques, and I feel that today, many lawyers who handle high-profile cases like yours work at large firms. Why did you not go to a large firm, either from YLS or if there were issues, for example, of discrimination, you must have had opportunities to lateral into such a firm later, if you had wanted to?NG: Well, certainly at the beginning nobody wanted me. It didn't matter how well I had done. Me and Ruth Ginsburg were on the streets looking for jobs. So that was one thing. I wound up, for the last four years of my practice before I became a judge, working in a firm called Dwyer Collora & Gertner. It was more of a boutique, white-collar firm. But I wasn't interested in the big firms because I didn't want anyone to tell me what to do. I didn't want anyone to say, “Don't write this op-ed because you'll piss off my clients.” I faced the same kind of issue when I left the bench. I could have an office, and sort of float into client conferences from time to time, but I did not want to be in a setting in which anyone told me what to do. It was true then; it certainly is true now.DL: So you did end up in another setting where, for the most part, you weren't told what to do: namely, you became a federal judge. And I suppose the First Circuit could from time to time tell you what to do, but….NG: But they were always wrong.DL: Yes, I do remember that when you were my professor, you would offer your thoughts on appellate rulings. But how did you—given the kind of career you had, especially—become a federal judge? Because let me be honest, I think that somebody with your type of engagement in hot-button issues today would have a challenging time. Republican senators would grandstand about you coming up with excuses for women murderers, or what have you. Did you have a rough confirmation process?NG: I did. So I'm up for the bench in 1993. This is under Bill Clinton, and I'm told—I never confirmed this—that when Senator Kennedy…. When I met Senator Kennedy, I thought I didn't have a prayer of becoming a judge. I put my name in because I knew the Clintons, and everybody I knew was getting a job in the government. I had not thought about being a judge. I had not prepared. I had not structured my career to be a judge. But everyone I knew was going into the government, and I thought if there ever was a time, this would be it. So I apply. Someday, someone should emboss my application, because the application was quite hysterical. I put in every article that I had written calling for access to reproductive technologies to gay people. It was something to behold.Kennedy was at the tail end of his career, and he was determined to put someone like me on the bench. I'm not sure that anyone else would have done that. I'm told (and this isn't confirmed) that when he talked to Bill and Hillary about me, they of course knew me—Hillary and I had been close friends—but they knew me to be that radical friend of theirs from Yale Law School. There had been 24 years in between, but still. And I'm told that what was said was, “She's terrific. But if there's a problem, she's yours.” But Kennedy was really determined.The week before my hearing before the Senate, I had gotten letters from everyone who had ever opposed me. Every prosecutor. I can't remember anyone who had said no. Bill Weld wrote a letter. Bob Mueller, who had opposed me in cases, wrote a letter. But as I think oftentimes happens with women, there was an article in The Boston Herald the day before my hearing, in which the writer compared me to Lorena Bobbitt. Your listeners may not know this, but he said, “Gertner will do to justice, with her gavel, what Lorena did to her husband, with a kitchen knife.” Do we have to explain that any more?DL: They can Google it or ask ChatGPT. I'm old enough to know about Lorena Bobbitt.NG: Right. So it's just at the tail edge of the presentation, that was always what the caricature would be. But Kennedy was masterful. There were numbers of us who were all up at the same time. Everyone else got through except me. I'm told that that article really was the basis for Senator Jesse Helms's opposition to me. And then Senator Kennedy called us one day and said, “Tomorrow you're going to read something, but don't worry, I'll take care of it.” And the Boston Globe headline says, “Kennedy Votes For Helms's School-Prayer Amendment.” And he called us and said, “We'll take care of it in committee.” And then we get a call from him—my husband took the call—Kennedy, affecting Helms's accent, said, ‘Senator, you've got your judge.' We didn't even understand what the hell he said, between his Boston accent and imitating Helms; we had no idea what he said. But that then was confirmed.DL: Are you the managing partner of a boutique or midsize firm? If so, you know that your most important job is attracting and retaining top talent. It's not easy, especially if your benefits don't match up well with those of Biglaw firms or if your HR process feels “small time.” NexFirm has created an onboarding and benefits experience that rivals an Am Law 100 firm, so you can compete for the best talent at a price your firm can afford. Want to learn more? Contact NexFirm at 212-292-1002 or email betterbenefits@nexfirm.com.So turning to your time as a judge, how would you describe that period, in a nutshell? The job did come with certain restrictions. Did you enjoy it, notwithstanding the restrictions?NG: I candidly was not sure that I would last beyond five years, for a couple of reasons. One was, I got on the bench in 1994, when the sentencing guidelines were mandatory, when what we taught you in my sentencing class was not happening, which is that judges would depart from the guidelines and the Sentencing Commission, when enough of us would depart, would begin to change the guidelines, and there'd be a feedback loop. There was no feedback loop. If you departed, you were reversed. And actually the genesis of the book I'm writing now came from this period. As far as I was concerned, I was being unfair. As I later said, my sentences were unfair, unjust, and disproportionate—and there was nothing I could do about it. So I was not sure that I was going to last beyond five years.In addition, there were some high-profile criminal trials going on with lawyers that I knew that I probably would've been a part of if I had been practicing. And I hungered to do that, to go back and be a litigator. The course at Yale Law School that you were a part of saved me. And it saved me because, certainly with respect to the sentencing, it turned what seemed like a formula into an intellectual discussion in which there was wiggle room and the ability to come up with other approaches. In other words, we were taught that this was a formula, and you don't depart from the formula, and that's it. The class came up with creative issues and creative understandings, which made an enormous difference to my judging.So I started to write; I started to write opinions. Even if the opinion says there's nothing I can do about it, I would write opinions in which I say, “I can't depart because of this woman's status as a single mother because the guidelines said only extraordinary family circumstances can justify a departure, and this wasn't extraordinary. That makes no sense.” And I began to write this in my opinions, I began to write this in scholarly writings, and that made all the difference in the world. And sometimes I was reversed, and sometimes I was not. But it enabled me to figure out how to push back against a system which I found to be palpably unfair. So I figured out how to be me in this job—and that was enormously helpful.DL: And I know how much and how deeply you cared about sentencing because of the class in which I actually wound up writing one of my two capstone papers at Yale.NG: To your listeners, I still have that paper.DL: You must be quite a pack rat!NG: I can change the grade at any time….DL: Well, I hope you've enjoyed your time today, Judge, and will keep the grade that way!But let me ask you: now that the guidelines are advisory, do you view that as a step forward from your time on the bench? Perhaps you would still be a judge if they were advisory? I don't know.NG: No, they became advisory in 2005, and I didn't leave until 2011. Yes, that was enormously helpful: you could choose what you thought was a fair sentence, so it's very advisory now. But I don't think I would've stayed longer, because of two reasons.By the time I hit 65, I wanted another act. I wanted another round. I thought I had done all that I could do as a judge, and I wanted to try something different. And Martha Minow of Harvard Law School made me an offer I couldn't refuse, which was to teach at Harvard. So that was one. It also, candidly, was that there was no longevity in my family, and so when I turned 65, I wasn't sure what was going to happen. So I did want to try something new. But I'm still here.DL: Yep—definitely, and very active. I always chuckle when I see “Ret.,” the abbreviation for “retired,” in your email signature, because you do not seem very retired to me. Tell us what you are up to today.NG: Well, first I have this book that I've been writing for several years, called Incomplete Sentences. And so what this book started to be about was the men and women that I sentenced, and how unfair it was, and what I thought we should have done. Then one day I got a message from a man by the name of Darryl Green, and it says, “Is this Nancy Gertner? If it is, I think about you all the time. I hope you're well. I'm well. I'm an iron worker. I have a family. I've written books. You probably don't remember me.” This was a Facebook message. I knew exactly who he was. He was a man who had faced the death penalty in my court, and I acquitted him. And he was then tried in state court, and acquitted again. So I knew exactly who he was, and I decided to write back.So I wrote back and said, “I know who you are. Do you want to meet?” That started a series of meetings that I've had with the men I've sentenced over the course of the 17-year career that I had as a judge. Why has it taken me this long to write? First, because these have been incredibly moving and difficult discussions. Second, because I wanted the book to be honest about what I knew about them and what a difference maybe this information would make. It is extremely difficult, David, to be honest about judging, particularly in these days when judges are parodied. So if I talk about how I wanted to exercise some leniency in a case, I understand that this can be parodied—and I don't want it to be, but I want to be honest.So for example, in one case, there would be cooperators in the case who'd get up and testify that the individual who was charged with only X amount of drugs was actually involved with much more than that. And you knew that if you believed the witness, the sentence would be doubled, even though you thought that didn't make any sense. This was really just mostly how long the cops were on the corner watching the drug deals. It didn't make the guy who was dealing drugs on a bicycle any more culpable than the guy who was doing massive quantities into the country.So I would struggle with, “Do I really believe this man, the witness who's upping the quantity?” And the kinds of exercises I would go through to make sure that I wasn't making a decision because I didn't like the implications of the decision and it was what I was really feeling. So it's not been easy to write, and it's taken me a very long time. The other side of the coin is they're also incredibly honest with me, and sometimes I don't want to know what they're saying. Not like a sociologist who could say, “Oh, that's an interesting fact, I'll put it in.” It's like, “Oh no, I don't want to know that.”DL: Wow. The book sounds amazing; I can't wait to read it. When is it estimated to come out?NG: Well, I'm finishing it probably at the end of this year. I've rewritten it about five times. And my hope would be sometime next year. So yeah, it was organic. It's what I wanted to write from the minute I left the bench. And it covers the guideline period when it was lunacy to follow the guidelines, to a period when it was much more flexible, but the guidelines still disfavored considering things like addiction and trauma and adverse childhood experiences, which really defined many of the people I was sentencing. So it's a cri de cœur, as they say, which has not been easy to write.DL: Speaking of cri de cœurs, and speaking of difficult things, it's difficult to write about judging, but I think we also have alluded already to how difficult it is to engage in judging in 2025. What general thoughts would you have about being a federal judge in 2025? I know you are no longer a federal judge. But if you were still on the bench or when you talk to your former colleagues, what is it like on the ground right now?NG: It's nothing like when I was a judge. In fact, the first thing that happened when I left the bench is I wrote an article in which I said—this is in 2011—that the only pressure I had felt in my 17 years on the bench was to duck, avoid, and evade, waiver, statute of limitations. Well, all of a sudden, you now have judges who at least since January are dealing with emergencies that they can't turn their eyes away from, judges issuing rulings at 1 a.m., judges writing 60-page decisions on an emergency basis, because what the president is doing is literally unprecedented. The courts are being asked to look at issues that have never been addressed before, because no one has ever tried to do the things that he's doing. And they have almost overwhelmingly met the moment. It doesn't matter whether you're ruling for the government or against the government; they are taking these challenges enormously seriously. They're putting in the time.I had two clerks, maybe some judges have three, but it's a prodigious amount of work. Whereas everyone complained about the Trump prosecutions proceeding so slowly, judges have been working expeditiously on these challenges, and under circumstances that I never faced, which is threats the likes of which I have never seen. One judge literally played for me the kinds of voice messages that he got after a decision that he issued. So they're doing it under circumstances that we never had to face. And it's not just the disgruntled public talking; it's also our fellow Yale Law alum, JD Vance, talking about rogue judges. That's a level of delegitimization that I just don't think anyone ever had to deal with before. So they're being challenged in ways that no other judges have, and they are being threatened in a way that no judges have.On the other hand, I wish I were on the bench.DL: Interesting, because I was going to ask you that. If you were to give lower-court judges a grade, to put you back in professor mode, on their performance since January 2025, what grade would you give the lower courts?NG: Oh, I would give them an A. I would give them an A. It doesn't matter which way they have come out: decision after decision has been thoughtful and careful. They put in the time. Again, this is not a commentary on what direction they have gone in, but it's a commentary on meeting the moment. And so now these are judges who are getting emergency orders, emergency cases, in the midst of an already busy docket. It has really been extraordinary. The district courts have; the courts of appeals have. I've left out another court….DL: We'll get to that in a minute. But I'm curious: you were on the District of Massachusetts, which has been a real center of activity because many groups file there. As we're recording this, there is the SNAP benefits, federal food assistance litigation playing out there [before Judge Indira Talwani, with another case before Chief Judge John McConnell of Rhode Island]. So it's really just ground zero for a lot of these challenges. But you alluded to the Supreme Court, and I was going to ask you—even before you did—what grade would you give them?NG: Failed. The debate about the shadow docket, which you write about and I write about, in which Justice Kavanaugh thinks, “we're doing fine making interim orders, and therefore it's okay that there's even a precedential value to our interim orders, and thank you very much district court judges for what you're doing, but we'll be the ones to resolve these issues”—I mean, they're resolving these issues in the most perfunctory manner possible.In the tariff case, for example, which is going to be argued on Wednesday, the Court has expedited briefing and expedited oral argument. They could do that with the emergency docket, but they are preferring to hide behind this very perfunctory decision making. I'm not sure why—maybe to keep their options open? Justice Barrett talks about how if it's going to be a hasty decision, you want to make sure that it's not written in stone. But of course then the cases dealing with independent commissions, in which you are allowing the government, allowing the president, to fire people on independent commissions—these cases are effectively overruling Humphrey's Executor, in the most ridiculous setting. So the Court is not meeting the moment. It was stunning that the Court decided in the birthright-citizenship case to be concerned about nationwide injunctions, when in fact nationwide injunctions had been challenged throughout the Biden administration, and they just decided not to address the issue then.Now, I have a lot to say about Justice Kavanaugh's dressing-down of Judge [William] Young [of the District of Massachusetts]….DL: Or Justice Gorsuch, joined by Justice Kavanaugh.NG: That's right, it was Justice Gorsuch. It was stunningly inappropriate, stunningly inappropriate, undermines the district courts that frankly are doing much better than the Supreme Court in meeting the moment. The whole concept of defying the Supreme Court—defying a Supreme Court order, a three-paragraph, shadow-docket order—is preposterous. So whereas the district courts and the courts of appeals are meeting the moment, I do not think the Supreme Court is. And that's not even going into the merits of the immunity decision, which I think has let loose a lawless presidency that is even more lawless than it might otherwise be. So yes, that failed.DL: I do want to highlight for my readers that in addition to your books and your speaking, you do write quite frequently on these issues in the popular press. I've seen your work in The New York Times and The Boston Globe. I know you're working on a longer essay about the rule of law in the age of Trump, so people should look out for that. Of all the things that you worry about right now when it comes to the rule of law, what worries you the most?NG: I worry that the president will ignore and disobey a Supreme Court order. I think a lot about the judges that are dealing with orders that the government is not obeying, and people are impatient that they're not immediately moving to contempt. And one gets the sense with the lower courts that they are inching up to the moment of contempt, but do not want to get there because it would be a stunning moment when you hold the government in contempt. I think the Supreme Court is doing the same thing. I initially believed that the Supreme Court was withholding an anti-Trump decision, frankly, for fear that he would not obey it, and they were waiting till it mattered. I now am no longer certain of that, because there have been rulings that made no sense as far as I'm concerned. But my point was that they, like the lower courts, were holding back rather than saying, “Government, you must do X,” for fear that the government would say, “Go pound sand.” And that's what I fear, because when that happens, it will be even more of a constitutional crisis than we're in now. It'll be a constitutional confrontation, the likes of which we haven't seen. So that's what I worry about.DL: Picking up on what you just said, here's something that I posed to one of my prior guests, Pam Karlan. Let's say you're right that the Supreme Court doesn't want to draw this line in the sand because of a fear that Trump, being Trump, will cross it. Why is that not prudential? Why is that not the right thing? And why is it not right for the Supreme Court to husband its political capital for the real moment?Say Trump—I know he said lately he's not going to—but say Trump attempts to run for a third term, and some case goes up to the Supreme Court on that basis, and the Court needs to be able to speak in a strong, unified, powerful voice. Or maybe it'll be a birthright-citizenship case, if he says, when they get to the merits of that, “Well, that's really nice that you think that there's such a thing as birthright citizenship, but I don't, and now stop me.” Why is it not wise for the Supreme Court to protect itself, until this moment when it needs to come forward and protect all of us?NG: First, the question is whether that is in fact what they are doing, and as I said, there were two schools of thought on this. One school of thought was that is what they were doing, and particularly doing it in an emergency, fuzzy, not really precedential way, until suddenly you're at the edge of the cliff, and you have to either say taking away birthright citizenship was unconstitutional, or tariffs, you can't do the tariffs the way you want to do the tariffs. I mean, they're husbanding—I like the way you put it, husbanding—their political capital, until that moment. I'm not sure that that's true. I think we'll know that if in fact the decisions that are coming down the pike, they actually decide against Trump—notably the tariff ones, notably birthright citizenship. I'm just not sure that that's true.And besides, David, there are some of these cases they did not have to take. The shadow docket was about where plaintiffs were saying it is an emergency to lay people off or fire people. Irreparable harm is on the plaintiff's side, whereas the government otherwise would just continue to do that which it has been doing. There's no harm to it continuing that. USAID—you don't have a right to dismantle the USAID. The harm is on the side of the dismantling, not having you do that which you have already done and could do through Congress, if you wanted to. They didn't have to take those cases. So your comment about husbanding political capital is a good comment, but those cases could have remained as they were in the district courts with whatever the courts of appeals did, and they could do what previous courts have done, which is wait for the issues to percolate longer.The big one for me, too, is the voting rights case. If they decide the voting rights case in January or February or March, if they rush it through, I will say then it's clear they're in the tank for Trump, because the only reason to get that decision out the door is for the 2026 election. So I want to believe that they are husbanding their political capital, but I'm not sure that if that's true, that we would've seen this pattern. But the proof will be with the voting rights case, with birthright citizenship, with the tariffs.DL: Well, it will be very interesting to see what happens in those cases. But let us now turn to my speed round. These are four questions that are the same for all my guests, and my first question is, what do you like the least about the law? And this can either be the practice of law or law as an abstract system of governance.NG: The practice of law. I do some litigation; I'm in two cases. When I was a judge, I used to laugh at people who said incivility was the most significant problem in the law. I thought there were lots of other more significant problems. I've come now to see how incredibly nasty the practice of law is. So yes—and that is no fun.DL: My second question is, what would you be if you were not a lawyer/judge/retired judge?NG: Musical comedy star, clearly! No question about it.DL: There are some judges—Judge Fred Block in the Eastern District of New York, Judge Jed Rakoff in the Southern District of New York—who do these little musical stylings for their court shows. I don't know if you've ever tried that?NG: We used to do Shakespeare, Shakespeare readings, and I loved that. I am a ham—so absolutely musical comedy or theater.DL: My third question is, how much sleep do you get each night?NG: Six to seven hours now, just because I'm old. Before that, four. Most of my life as a litigator, I never thought I needed sleep. You get into my age, you need sleep. And also you look like hell the next morning, so it's either getting sleep or a facelift.DL: And my last question is, any final words of wisdom, such as career advice or life advice, for my listeners?NG: You have to do what you love. You have to do what you love. The law takes time and is so all-encompassing that you have to do what you love. And I have done what I love from beginning to now, and I wouldn't have it any other way.DL: Well, I have loved catching up with you, Judge, and having you share your thoughts and your story with my listeners. Thank you so much for joining me.NG: You're very welcome, David. Take care.DL: Thanks so much to Judge Gertner for joining me. I look forward to reading her next book, Incomplete Sentences, when it comes out next year.Thanks to NexFirm for sponsoring the Original Jurisdiction podcast. NexFirm has helped many attorneys to leave Biglaw and launch firms of their own. To explore this opportunity, please contact NexFirm at 212-292-1000 or email careerdevelopment@nexfirm.com to learn more.Thanks to Tommy Harron, my sound engineer here at Original Jurisdiction, and thanks to you, my listeners and readers. To connect with me, please email me at davidlat@substack.com, or find me on Twitter, Facebook, and LinkedIn, at davidlat, and on Instagram and Threads at davidbenjaminlat.If you enjoyed today's episode, please rate, review, and subscribe. Please subscribe to the Original Jurisdiction newsletter if you don't already, over at davidlat.substack.com. This podcast is free, but it's made possible by paid subscriptions to the newsletter.The next episode should appear on or about Wednesday, November 26. Until then, may your thinking be original and your jurisdiction free of defects. This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit davidlat.substack.com/subscribe

Rear Admiral Sandy Adams, USN, Ret., served 34 years in the U.S. Navy, leading both active duty and reserve units across global theaters. She commanded five Navy Reserve units, deployed to Saudi Arabia during Desert Storm, and advised Afghan defense leaders during Operation Enduring Freedom. Her final role was Deputy Commander of the Navy Expeditionary Combat Command, overseeing 19,000 personnel. As a reservist, Adams also held various senior civilian roles in defense contracting and supply chain management.Adams earned a Bachelor's degree from Michigan State University, a Master's in National Security and Strategic Studies from the Naval War College, and graduated from the Joint Forces Staff College.Retired from the military, Adams is currently active with the Daughters of the American Revolution, El Redondo, CA Chapter, The Military Women's Memorial, and is a Member of the Chairman's Flag Council for the Museum of the Surface Navy. On our podcast, Admiral Adams shares her stories about the challenges of being a woman in the Navy, while also expressing her passion for all those currently on active duty and veterans.Support the show

Lt. Gen. Bob Caslen, (Ret), member of the Board of Trsutees at Salem University, former Commandant of the West Point Military Academy, Marshal of the Clarksburg Veteran's Day Parade on his service and importance of this day. State Senator Joey Garcia, D, Marion, 13, on the future of thre four state-run health care facilities that were recently sold.  

Hugh’s annual Veterans Day Program featuring senior staff from TheFund.org Beth Birchfield and Christy Stover, plus USMC Sgt. Major Kevin Swiss, Corpsman Tyler Burdick (USN, Ret.), Major Ivan Castro (USA, Ret.) Specialist Darnell Duggar (USA, Ret.), Specialist Jason Wheeler (USA, Ret.) and Lance Corp. Ed Lyons (USMC, Ret.).See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

 This Veterans Day, we're honoring those who've served—and continuing the conversation on what service looks like after the uniform comes off. Shannon is joined by Lt. Col. (Ret.) Kathy Lowrey Gallowitz, Founder and CEO of Vanguard Veteran, an organization dedicated to equipping civilians to become Veteran Champions. Kathy's mission is clear: bridge the gap between military and civilian life and empower veterans to thrive in the workplace, community, and beyond. From leading teams in uniform to leading a movement of understanding, Kathy shares her insight on building “vanguard” communities—those at the front of meaningful change. You'll hear leadership lessons born from service, the truth behind common misconceptions, and how we can all be part of reshaping what veteran employment looks like today. 

Col. James Quick (USAF, Ret.) and Cpt. Rob Beebo (UMSC) join us to share insights about Folds of Honor, an organization dedicated to providing educational scholarships to the families of America's fallen and disabled service members. They'll discuss the mission, impact, and opportunities Folds of... The post Col. James Quick (USAF Ret.) and Cpt. Rob Beebo (UMSC) appeared first on ABQ Connect.

On this special Remembrance Day edition of Real Talk, we highlight the stories that shape who we are as Canadians. In our feature interview presented by Mercedes-Benz Edmonton West, Lt.-Col. (Ret.) and former MP Laurie Hawn joins us with a lifetime of service and perspective from the cockpit to Parliament Hill (3:00). Randall Purvis, co-founder of No Stone Left Alone, shares the mission that's mobilizing a new generation to honour our fallen. And historian and author Don Levers takes us inside Our Fathers' Footsteps, preserving the voices of those who served so their lessons aren't lost. It's an episode for reflection, gratitude, and hard truths.  THIS EPISODE IS PRESENTED BY HANSEN DISTILLERY. Support the YWCA of Edmonton's Rose Campaign by purchasing a limited-edition bottle of Whisky Rose. Pick them up in person at Hansen Distillery -- 17412 111 Avenue in Edmonton. https://hansendistillery.com/ 24:00 | The Royal Alexandra Hospital has played a key role in times of combat through its 125 years. We remember the service of doctors, nurses, and everyday community members in a Remembrance Day edition of Echoes of the Alex.  BE PART OF THE ROYAL ALEX'S LEGACY OF CARE: http://givetoroyalalex.org/ "FORGIVENESS and GRACE" -- OUR INTERVIEW WITH D-DAY VETERAN MARTY JONES: https://www.youtube.com/live/1ioKjRC5kpo NO STONE LEFT ALONE: https://www.nostoneleftalone.ca/ DON LEVERS' BOOKS: https://donleversbooks.com/ FOLLOW US ON TIKTOK, X, INSTAGRAM, and LINKEDIN: @realtalkrj & @ryanjespersen  JOIN US ON FACEBOOK: @ryanjespersen  REAL TALK MERCH: https://ryanjespersen.com/merch RECEIVE EXCLUSIVE PERKS - BECOME A REAL TALK PATRON: patreon.com/ryanjespersen THANK YOU FOR SUPPORTING OUR SPONSORS! https://ryanjespersen.com/sponsors The views and opinions expressed in this show are those of the host and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Relay Communications Group Inc. or any affiliates.

November 11, 2025 ~ Laura Rios, Ret. US Air Force Master Sgt and Andy McKinnon Chief Veteran Service Officer join Macomb County Executive Mark Hackel live from Nino Salvaggio International Marketplace for Veterans Day. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See https://pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Chris and Amy open the show with Lindy Noel, whose remarkable kidney donation to a colleague earned her recognition at the Musial Awards. The discussion highlights her motivations, recovery, and message about the power of giving back. Hour two features Dr. Malaika Horne Wells reflecting on growing up in St. Louis' Mill Creek Valley, the neighborhood's erasure through urban renewal, and the Missouri History Museum's new Mill Creek: Black Metropolis exhibit. ESPN's Jesse Rogers then joins to analyze the MLB gambling scandal, its impact on players and betting rules, and what it means for the Cardinals' offseason and potential salary cap discussions. The final hour honors Veterans Day with Ret. Lt. Gen. Mark Hertling, who shares insights on the meaning of service, the challenges veterans face, and his new book If I Don't Return: A Father's Wartime Journal. The show also includes updates on the government shutdown, Boeing's strike resolution, and YouTube TV's dispute with Disney and ESPN.

When an admitted violent offender walks free after 11 felony charges, something in the system is broken. In this episode of Hidden Killers with Tony Brueski, we expose how Oklahoma's Youthful Offender Act was used to spare 18-year-old Jesse Mack Butler from prison time after pleading no contest to multiple felony charges — including rape, attempted rape, sexual battery, and strangulation. Police say they found partial phone video of one attack. Medical reports confirmed that one victim required neck surgery after being choked to the edge of death. Despite the brutality, Butler's case was reclassified from adult felony to Youthful Offender — effectively suspending a 78-year sentence and replacing it with a single year of supervision. Joined by Ret. FBI Special Agent Robin Dreeke, Tony breaks down: The timeline of failures that let it happen. The family and community privilege surrounding the case. The behavioral patterns of predators — and those who protect them. Why “no-contest” pleas let defendants avoid public accountability. This is a story about systems that choose reputation over justice, mercy over morality, and silence over truth.

When an admitted violent offender walks free after 11 felony charges, something in the system is broken. In this episode of Hidden Killers with Tony Brueski, we expose how Oklahoma's Youthful Offender Act was used to spare 18-year-old Jesse Mack Butler from prison time after pleading no contest to multiple felony charges — including rape, attempted rape, sexual battery, and strangulation. Police say they found partial phone video of one attack. Medical reports confirmed that one victim required neck surgery after being choked to the edge of death. Despite the brutality, Butler's case was reclassified from adult felony to Youthful Offender — effectively suspending a 78-year sentence and replacing it with a single year of supervision. Joined by Ret. FBI Special Agent Robin Dreeke, Tony breaks down: The timeline of failures that let it happen. The family and community privilege surrounding the case. The behavioral patterns of predators — and those who protect them. Why “no-contest” pleas let defendants avoid public accountability. This is a story about systems that choose reputation over justice, mercy over morality, and silence over truth.

When an admitted violent offender walks free after 11 felony charges, something in the system is broken. In this episode of Hidden Killers with Tony Brueski, we expose how Oklahoma's Youthful Offender Act was used to spare 18-year-old Jesse Mack Butler from prison time after pleading no contest to multiple felony charges — including rape, attempted rape, sexual battery, and strangulation. Police say they found partial phone video of one attack. Medical reports confirmed that one victim required neck surgery after being choked to the edge of death. Despite the brutality, Butler's case was reclassified from adult felony to Youthful Offender — effectively suspending a 78-year sentence and replacing it with a single year of supervision. Joined by Ret. FBI Special Agent Robin Dreeke, Tony breaks down: The timeline of failures that let it happen. The family and community privilege surrounding the case. The behavioral patterns of predators — and those who protect them. Why “no-contest” pleas let defendants avoid public accountability. This is a story about systems that choose reputation over justice, mercy over morality, and silence over truth.

[00:00] Josh Holmes & Comfortably Smug [ 18:25] Carly Shimkus [ 28:10] Ainsley Earhardt & Lawrence Jones [ 36:47] Bruce Blakeman [ 55:10] Col. (Ret.) C.J. Douglas [1:05:50] James Trusty [1:24:00] Jimmy Failla [1:37:25] Will Cain Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Eleven felony charges. Two teenage victims. One nearly strangled to death. And somehow — not a single day in prison. This episode of Hidden Killers with Tony Brueski exposes how Oklahoma's justice system transformed a violent felony case into a “rehabilitation” story. Eighteen-year-old Jesse Mack Butler, originally charged with rape, attempted rape, sexual battery, and strangulation, faced decades behind bars. But when the court reclassified him as a Youthful Offender, everything changed. We break down the timeline:  ⚖️ February 2024 — Police file 11 felonies.  

Eleven felony charges. Two teenage victims. One nearly strangled to death. And somehow — not a single day in prison. This episode of Hidden Killers with Tony Brueski exposes how Oklahoma's justice system transformed a violent felony case into a “rehabilitation” story. Eighteen-year-old Jesse Mack Butler, originally charged with rape, attempted rape, sexual battery, and strangulation, faced decades behind bars. But when the court reclassified him as a Youthful Offender, everything changed. We break down the timeline:  ⚖️ February 2024 — Police file 11 felonies.  

The path to progressing as a leader isn't always linear. SUMMARY Col. (Ret.) Mike Ott shows how a childhood dream can evolve into a lifetime of impact—from commanding in uniform to leading innovation in healthcare and national defense. Hear more on Long Blue Leadership. Listen now!   SHARE THIS PODCAST LINKEDIN  |  FACEBOOK   MIKE'S LEADERSHIP TAKEAWAYS A leader worth his or her salt should be comfortable not being the smartest person in the room. Striving for a lack of hubris is essential in leadership. Setting a clear vision is a fundamental leadership skill. Moving people without authority is crucial for effective leadership. Resource management is key to achieving organizational goals. Acknowledging what you don't know is a strength in leadership. Effective leaders focus on guiding their teams rather than asserting dominance. Leadership is about influencing and inspiring others. A successful mission requires collaboration and shared vision. True leadership is about empowering others to succeed.   CHAPTERS 00:00: Early Inspiration 06:32: Academy Years 13:17: Military Career Transition 21:33: Financial Services Journey 31:29: MOBE and Healthcare Innovation 40:12: Defense Innovation Unit 48:42: Philanthropy and Community Impact 58:11: Personal Growth and Leadership Lessons   ABOUT MIKE OTT BIO Mike Ott is the Chief Executive Officer of MOBĒ, a U.S.-based company focused on whole-person health and care-management solutions. He became CEO in April 2022, taking the helm to lead the company through growth and operational excellence following a distinguished career in both the military and corporate sectors.  A graduate of the United States Air Force Academy, Mike served as a Colonel in the U.S. Air Force Reserves before shifting into financial services and healthcare leadership roles including private wealth management at U.S. Bank and executive positions with UnitedHealth Group/Optum. His leadership ethos emphasizes alignment, acceleration, and human potential, building cultures where teams can thrive and leveraging data-driven models to improve health outcomes.   CONNECT WITH MIKE LinkedIn MOBE CONNECT WITH THE LONG BLUE LEADERSHIP PODCAST NETWORK TEAM Send your feedback or nominate a guest: socialmedia@usafa.org Ted Robertson | Producer:  Ted.Robertson@USAFA.org    Ryan Hall | Director:  Ryan.Hall@USAFA.org  Bryan Grossman | Copy Editor:  Bryan.Grossman@USAFA.org Wyatt Hornsby | Executive Producer:  Wyatt.Hornsby@USAFA.org      ALL PAST LBL EPISODES  |  ALL LBLPN PRODUCTIONS AVAILABLE ON ALL MAJOR PODCAST PLATFORMS     OUR SPEAKERS Guest, Col. (Ret.) Mike Ott '85  |  Host, Lt. Col. (Ret.) Naviere Walkewicz '99   FULL TRANSCRIPT Naviere Walkewicz 0:00 A quick programming note before we begin this episode of Long Blue Leadership: This episode will be audio-only, so sit back and enjoy the listen. Welcome to Long Blue Leadership, the podcast where we share insights on leadership through the lives and experiences of Air Force Academy graduates. I'm Naviere Walkewicz, Class of '99. Today, on Long Blue Leadership, we welcome Col. (Ret.) Mike Ott, Class of 1985, a leader whose vision was sparked at just 9 years old during a family road trip past the Air Force Academy. That childhood dream carried him through a 24-year Air Force career, culminating in retirement as a colonel and into a life of leadership across business, innovation and philanthropy. Mike is the CEO of MOBE, a groundbreaking company that uses data analytics and a revolutionary pay-for-results model to improve health outcomes while reducing costs. He also serves as a senior adviser to the Defense Innovation Unit, supporting the secretary of defense in accelerating commercial innovation for national security. A member of the Forbes Councils, Mike shares his expertise with leaders around the world. A former Falcon Foundation trustee and longtime supporter of the Academy, Mike has given generously his time, talents and resources to strengthen the Long Blue Line. His story is one of innovation and service in uniform, in the marketplace and in his community. Mike, welcome to Long Blue Leadership. We're so glad to have you here.   Mike Ott 1:29 Naviere, thanks a ton. I'm glad to be here. Naviere Walkewicz 1:31 Yes, yes. Well, we're really excited. I mean, you're here for your 40th reunion.   Mike Ott 1:35 Yeah, it's crazy.   Naviere Walkewicz1:37 You came right in, and we're so pleased that you would join us here first for this podcast.   Mike Ott 1:39 Right on. Thanks for the time.   Naviere Walkewicz 1:41 Absolutely. Well, let's jump right in, because not many people can say at 9 years old they know what they want to do when they grew up, but you did. Mike Ott 1:48 Yeah. I guess some people can say it; might not be true, but for me, it's true, good or bad. And goodness gracious, right? Here for my 40th reunion, do the math team, and as a 9-year-old, that was 1972, And a lot was going on in the world in 1972 whether it was political unrest, Vietnam and all of that, and the Academy was in the thick of it. And so we had gone — It was our first significant family vacation. My father was a Chicago policeman. We drove in the 1968 Buick LaSabre, almost straight through. Stopped, stayed at a Holiday Inn, destination Colorado, simply, just because nobody had ever seen the mountains before. That was why. And we my parents, mom, mom and dad took myself. I have two younger sisters, Pikes Peak, Academy, Garden of the Gods, Royal Gorge. And I remember noon meal formation, and the bell going off. Guys at the time — we hadn't had women as cadets at that point in time — running out in their flight suits as I recall lining up ready to go. And for me, it was the energy, right, the sense of, “Wow, this is something important.” I didn't know exactly how important it was, but I knew it was important, and I could envision even at that age, there was they were doing good, Naviere Walkewicz 3:21 Wow. Nine years old, your family went on vacation, and it just struck you as this is important and something that I want to do. So what did that conversation look like after that experience that you had as a 9-year-old and kind of manifest this in yourself? How did that go with your parents? Mike Ott 3:36 Well, I didn't say too much about it, as I was in grammar school, but as high school hit, you know, I let my folks know what my plans were, and I had mom and dad — my mother's still alive, my father passed about a year ago. Very, very good, hard-working, ethical people, but hadn't gone to college, and we had been told, “Look, you know, you need to get an education.” They couldn't. I wish they had. They were both very, very, very bright, and so I knew college was a plan. I also knew there wasn't a lot of money to pay for it. So I'm certain that that helped bake in a few things. But as I got into high school, I set my sights. I went to public high school in Chicago, and I remember freshman year walking into my counselor's office, and said, “I want to go to the Air Force Academy,” and he kind of laughed.   Naviere Walkewicz 3:21 Really?   Mike Ott 3:22 Well, we had 700 kids in my class, and maybe 40% went on to college, right? And the bulk of them went to community college or a state school. I can count on one hand the number of folks that went to an academy or an Ivy League school or something of that. So it was it was around exposure. It had nothing to do with intelligence. It was exposure and just what these communities were accustomed to. A lot of folks went into the trades and pieces like that. So my counselor's reaction wasn't one of shock or surprise insofar as that's impossible. It was, “We haven't had a lot of people make that commitment this early on, and I'm glad to help.”   Naviere Walkewicz 5:18 Oh, I love that.   Mike Ott 5:19 Which is wonderful, and what I had known at the time, Mr. Needham...   Naviere Walkewicz 5:23 You Remember his name?   Mike Ott 5:24 Yeah, he was in the Navy Reserves. He was an officer, so he got the joke. He got the joke and helped me work through what classes to take, how to push myself. I didn't need too much guidance there. I determined, “Well, I've got to distinguish myself.” And I like to lean in. I like a headwind, and I don't mind a little bit of an uphill battle, because once you get up there, you feel great. I owe an awful lot to him. And, not the superintendent, but the principal of our school was a gentleman named Sam Ozaki, and Sam was Japanese American interned during World War II as a young man, got to of service age and volunteered and became a lieutenant in the Army and served in World War II in Europe, right, not in Asia. So he saw something in me. He too became an advocate. He too became someone that sought to endorse, support or otherwise guide me. Once I made that claim that I was going to go to the Academy. Naviere Walkewicz 6:30 Wow. So you mentioned something that really stuck with me. You said, you know, you didn't mind kind of putting yourself out there and doing the hard things, because you knew when you got to the top it was going to feel really great. Was that something you saw from your father? Was that something, there are key leaders in your life that emulated that? Or is that just something that you always had in yourself? Mike Ott 6:51 I would say there's certainly an environmental element to it — how I was raised, what I was exposed to, and then juxtaposition as to what I observed with other family members or other parts of the community where things didn't work out very well, right? And, you know, I put two and two together. y father demonstrated, throughout his entire career what it means to have a great work ethic. As did mom and, you know, big, tough Chicago cop for 37 years. But the other thing that I learned was kindness, and you wouldn't expect to learn that from the big, tough Chicago cop, but I think it was environment, observing what didn't occur very often and how hard work, if I apply myself, can create outcomes that are going to be more fulfilling for me. Naviere Walkewicz 7:48 Wow, you talked about kindness. How did you see kindness show up in your journey as a cadet at the Air Force Academy? Or did you? Mike Ott 7:58 Yeah, gosh, so I remember, started in June of 1981, OK, and still connected with many of the guys and women that with whom I went to basic training and all that. The first moment of kindness that I experienced that it was a mutual expression, but one where I recognized, “Wow, every one of us is new here. None of us has a real clue.” We might have some idea because we had somebody had a sibling or a mother that was in the military or father that went to the academy at the time, but none of us really knew, right? We were knuckleheads, right? Eighteen years old. Maybe there were a couple of prior-enlisted folks. I don't recall much of that, but I having gone to a public high school in Chicago, where we had a variety of different ethnicities. I learned how to just understand people for who they are, meet them for who they are, and respect every individual. That's how I was raised, and that's how I exhibited myself, I sought to conduct myself in high school. So I get to the Academy, and you're assigned, you know, the first couple three nights, the first few weeks before you go to Jacks Valley, you're assigned. It was all a alphabetical, and my roommate was an African American fellow named Kevin Nixon. All right, my God, Kevin Nixon, and this guy, he was built. I mean, he was rock solid, right? And he had that 1000-yard stare, right? Very intimidating. And I'm this, like, 6-foot-tall, 148-pound runner, like, holy dork, right? And I'm assigned — we're roommates, and he just had a very stoicism, or a stoic nature about him. And I remember, it was our second night at the Academy, maybe first night, I don't quite recall, and we're in bed, and it's an hour after lights out, and I hear him crying, and like, well, what do you do? Like, we're in this together. It was that moment, like we're both alone, but we're not right. He needs to know that he's not alone. So I walked around and went over his bed, and I said, “Hey, man, I miss my mom and dad too. Let's talk. And we both cried, right? And I'll tell you what, he and I were pals forever. It was really quite beautiful. And what didn't happen is he accepted my outreach, right? And he came from a very difficult environment, one where I'm certain there was far more racial strife than I had experienced in Chicago. He came from Norfolk, Virginia, and he came from — his father worked in the shipyards and really, really tough, tough, tough background. He deserved to be the Academy. He was a great guy, very bright, and so we became friends, and I tried to be kind. He accepted that kindness and reciprocated in ways where he created a pretty beautiful friendship. Naviere Walkewicz 7:48 Oh, my goodness. Thank you for sharing that story. And you got me in the feels a little bit, because I remember those nights, even you know me having family members that went through the Academy. There's just something about when you're in it yourself, and in that moment, it's raw.   Mike Ott 11:13 Raw is a good word. Naviere Walkewicz 11:15 Oh, thank you for that. So you're at the Academy and you end up doing 24 years. I don't mean to, like, mash all that into one sentence, but let's talk… Mike Ott 11:22 I didn't do very much. It was the same year repeated 24 times over. Like, not a very good learner, right? Not a very good learner. Naviere Walkewicz 11:30 Yeah, I was gonna ask, you know, in that journey, because, had you planned to do a career in the Air Force? Mike Ott 11:36 Well, I didn't know, right? I went in, eyes wide open, and my cumulative time in the Air Force is over 24 but it was only it was just shy of seven active duty, and then 22, 23, in the Reserves, right? I hadn't thought about the Reserves, but I had concluded, probably at the, oh, maybe three-year mark that I wanted to do other things. It had nothing to do with disdain, a sense of frustration or any indignation, having gone to the Academy, which I'm very, very proud of, and it meant an awful lot to who I am. But it was, “Wait, this is, this is my shot, and I'm going to go try other things.” I love ambiguity, I'm very curious. Have a growth mindset and have a perhaps paradoxical mix of being self-assured, but perhaps early on, a bit too, a bit too, what's the word I was thinking of? I wrote this down — a bit too measured, OK, in other words, risk taking. And there were a few instances where I realized, “Hey, man, dude, take some risk. What's the downside? And if it isn't you, who else?” So it was that mindset that helped me muscle through and determine that, coupled with the fact that the Air Force paid for me to go to graduate school, they had programs in Boston, and so I got an MBA, and I did that at night. I had a great commander who let me take classes during the day when I wasn't traveling. It was wonderful. It was there that I was exposed to elements of business and in financial services, which ultimately drew me into financial services when I separated from active duty. Naviere Walkewicz 13:17 Well, I love that, because first you talked about a commander that saw, “How can I help you be your best version of yourself?” And I think the other piece of financial service, because I had to dabble in that as well — the second word is service. And so you've never stopped serving in all the things that you've done. So you took that leap, that risk. Is that something that you felt developed while you're at the Academy, or it's just part of your ethos. Mike Ott 13:41 It developed. It matured. I learned how to apply it more meaningfully at the Academy after a couple, three moments, where I realized that I can talk a little bit about mentoring and then I can come back to that, but mentoring — I don't know, I don't recall having heard that term as a mechanism for helping someone develop. I'm sure we used it when I was a cadet at the Academy and out of the Academy, and having been gone through different programs and banking and different graduate programs, the term comes up an awful lot. You realize, wow, there's something there helping the next generation, but also the reciprocity of learning from that generation yourself. I didn't really understand the whole mentoring concept coming out of Chicago and getting here, and just thought things were very hierarchical, very, very command structure, and it was hit the standards or else. And that that's not a bad mindset, right? But it took me a little while to figure out that there's a goodness factor that comes with the values that we have at the Academy, and it's imbued in each one of you know, service excellence, all of those pieces. But for the most part, fellow cadets and airmen and women want to help others. I mean, it's in service. It's in our DNA. Man that blew right past me. I had no idea, and I remember at one point I was entering sophomore year, and I was asked to be a glider instructor. I'd done the soaring and jumping program over the summer, and like, “Hey, you know you're not too bad at glider. You want to be an instructor?” At the time, that was pretty big deal, yeah, glider instructors. Like, “Yeah, no, I'm not going to do that, you know? I've got to study. Like, look at my GPA.” That didn't really matter. “And I'm going to go up to Boulder and go chase women.” Like, I was going to meet women, right? So, like, but I didn't understand that, that that mechanism, that mentoring mechanism, isn't always bestowed upon a moment or a coupling of individuals. There are just good people out there that see goodness in others that want to help them through that. I had no clue, but that was a turning point for me.   Naviere Walkewicz 15:56 Because you said no.   Mike Ott 15:58 I said no, right? And it was like what, you know, a couple months later, I remember talking with somebody like, “Yep, swing and a miss,” right? But after that, it changed how I was going to apply this self-assuredness, not bravado, but willingness to try new things, but with a willingness to be less measured. Why not? Trust the system. Trust the environment that you're in, the environment that we're in, you were in, I was in, that we're representing right now, it is a trusted environment. I didn't know that. And there were a lot of environments when I was being raised, they weren't trusted environments. And so you have a sort of mental callous mindset in many ways, and that that vigilance, that sense of sentinel is a good protection piece, but it prevents, it prevents... It doesn't allow for the membrane to be permeated, right? And so that trust piece is a big deal. I broke through after that, and I figured it out, and it helped me, and it helped me connect a sense of self-assuredness to perhaps being less measured, more willing to take ambiguity. You can be self-assured but not have complete belief in yourself, OK? And it helped me believe in myself more. I still wish I'd have been glider instructor. What a knucklehead. My roommate wound up becoming one. Like, “You, son of a rat, you.”   Naviere Walkewicz 17:29 So tell me, when did the next opportunity come up where you said yes, and what did that look like in your journey? Mike Ott 17:36 I was a lieutenant. I was a lieutenant, and I was looking for a new role. I was stationed at Hanscom Field, and I was working at one program office, and I bumped — I was the athletic officer for the base with some other folks, and one of the colonels was running a different program, and he had gotten to know me and understand how I operated, what I did, and he said, “Hey, Ott, I want you to come over to my program.” And I didn't know what the program was, but I trusted him, and I did it blindly. I remember his name, Col. Holy Cross. And really good guy. And yeah, I got the tap on the shoulder. Didn't blink. Didn't blink. So that was just finishing up second lieutenant. Naviere Walkewicz 18:26 What a lesson. I mean, something that stuck with you as a cadet, and not that it manifested in regret, but you realized that you missed that opportunity to grow and experience and so when it came around again, what a different… So would you say that as you progress, then you know, because at this point you're a lieutenant, you know, you took on this new role, what did you learn about yourself? And then how did that translate to the decision to move from active duty to the Reserve and into… Mike Ott 18:56 You'll note what I didn't do when I left active duty was stay in the defense, acquisition, defense engineering space. I made a hard left turn…   Naviere Walkewicz 19:13 Intentionally.   Mike Ott 19:14 Intentionally. And went into financial services. And that is a hard left turn away from whether it's military DOD, military industrial complex, working for one of the primes, or something like that. And my mindset was, “If I'm not the guy in the military making the decision, setting strategy and policy…” Like I was an O-3. Like, what kind of policy am I setting? Right? But my point was, if I'm not going to, if I may, if I decided to not stay in the military, I wasn't going to do anything that was related to the military, right, like, “Let's go to green pastures. Set myself apart. Find ways to compete…” Not against other people. I don't think I need to beat the hell out of somebody. I just need to make myself better every day. And that's the competition that I just love, and I love it  it's greenfield unknown. And why not apply my skills in an area where they haven't been applied and I can learn? So as an active-duty person — to come back and answer your question — I had worked some great bosses, great bosses, and they would have career counseling discussions with me, and I was asked twice to go to SOS in-residence. I turned it down, you know, as I knew. And then the third time my boss came to me. He's like, “OK, what are you doing? Idiot. Like, what are you doing?” That was at Year 5. And I just said, “Hey, sir, I think I'm going to do something different.” Naviere Walkewicz 20:47 Didn't want to take the slot from somebody else.   Mike Ott 20:49 That's right. Right. And so then it was five months, six months later, where I put in my papers. I had to do a little more time because of the grad school thing, which is great. And his commander, this was a two-star that I knew as well, interviewed me and like, one final, like, “What are you doing?” He's like, “You could have gone so far in the Air Force.” And I looked at the general — he was a super-good dude. I said, “What makes you think I'm not going to do well outside of the Air Force?” And he smiled. He's like, “Go get it.” So we stayed in touch. Great guy. So it had nothing to do with lack of fulfillment or lack of satisfaction. It had more to do with newness, curiosity, a challenge in a different vein. Naviere Walkewicz 21:30 So let's walk into that vein. You entered into this green pasture. What was that experience like? Because you've just been in something so structured. And I mean, would you say it was just structured in a different way? Mike Ott 21:48 No, not structured. The industry… So, I separated, tried an engineering job for about eight months. Hated it. I was, I was development engineer at Ford Motor Company, great firm. Love the organization, bored stiff, right? Just not what I wanted to do, and that's where I just quit. Moved back to Chicago, where I'm from, and started networking and found a role with an investment bank, ABN AMRO, which is a large Dutch investment bank that had begun to establish itself in the United States. So their headquarters in Chicago and I talked fast enough where somebody took a bet on me and was brought into the investment banking arm where I was on the capital markets team and institutional equities. So think of capital markets, and think of taking companies public and distributing those shares to large institutions, pensions funds, mutual funds, family offices.   Naviere Walkewicz 22:48 So a lot of learning and excitement for you.   Mike Ott 22:51 Super fun. And so the industry is very structured. How capital is established, capital flows, very regulated. We've got the SEC, we've got the FDIC, a lot of complex regulations and compliance matters. That's very, very, very structured. But there was a free-wheelingness in the marketplace. And if you've seen Wolf of Wall Street and things like that, some of that stuff happened. Crazy! And I realized that with my attitude, sense of placing trust in people before I really knew them, figuring that, “OK, what's the downside? I get nipped in the fan once, once or twice. But if I can thrust trust on somebody and create a relationship where they're surprised that I've trusted them, it's probably going to build something reciprocal. So learn how to do that.” And as a young fellow on the desk, wound up being given more responsibility because I was able to apply some of the basic tenets of leadership that you learned and I learned at the Academy. And face it, many of the men and women that work on Wall Street or financial services simply haven't gone to the Academy. It's just, it's the nature of numbers — and don't have that experience. They have other experiences. They have great leadership experiences, but they don't have this. And you and I may take it for granted because we were just four years of just living through it. It oozed in every moment, every breath, every interaction, every dialog, it was there.But we didn't know it was being poured in, sprinkled across as being showered. We were being showered in it. But I learned how to apply that in the relationships that I built, knowing that the relationships that I built and the reputation that I built would be lasting and impactful and would be appropriate investments for the future endeavors, because there's always a future, right? So it wasn't… again, lot of compliance, lot of regulations, but just the personalities. You know, I did it for the challenge, right? I did it because I was curious. I did it because I wanted to see if I could succeed at it. There were other folks that did it simply because it was for the money. And many, some of them made it. They might have sold their soul to get there. Some didn't make it. Maybe it wasn't the right pursuit for them in the first place. And if I go back to mentoring, which we talked about a little bit, and I help young men and women, cadets or maybe even recent grads, my guidance to them is, don't chase the money, chase the environment, right? And chase the environment that allows you to find your flow and contribute to that environment. The money will come. But I saw it — I've seen it with grads. I've seen it with many of the folks that didn't make it in these roles in financial services, because I thought, “Hey, this is where the money is.” It might be. But you have to go back to the basis of all this. How are you complected? What are your values? Do they align with the environment that you're in? And can you flow in a way where your strengths are going to allow success to happen and not sell your soul? Naviere Walkewicz 26:26 Yeah, you said two things that really stood out to me in that —the first one was, you know, trusting, just starting from a place of trust and respect, because the opportunity to build a relationship faster, and also there's that potential for future something. And then the second thing is the environment and making sure it aligns with your values. Is that how you got to MOBE? Mike Ott 26:50 Yeah, I would say how I got to MOBE, that certainly was a factor. Good question.   Naviere Walkewicz 26:57 The environment, I feel, is very much aligned Mike Ott 27:00 Very much so and then… But there's an element of reputation and relationship that allowed me to get there. So now I'm lucky to be a part of this firm. We're 250 people. We will do $50 million of revenue. We're growing nicely. I've been in health care for four years. Now, we are we're more than just healthcare. I mean, it's deep data. We can get into some of that later, but I had this financial services background. I was drawn to MOBE, but I had established a set of relationships with people at different investment banks, with other families that had successfully built businesses and just had relationships. And I was asked to come on to the board because MOBE, at the time, great capabilities, but struggled with leadership during COVID. Lot of companies did. It's not an indictment as to the prior CEO, but he and the team struggled to get through COVID. So initially I was approached to come on to the board, and that was through the founders of the firm who had known me for 20 years and knew my reputation, because I'd done different things at the investment bank, I'd run businesses at US Bank, which is a large commercial bank within the country, and they needed someone that… They cared very little about health care experience, which is good for me, and it was more around a sense of leadership. They knew my values. They trusted me. So initially I was asked to come onto the board, and that evolved into, “No, let's just do a whole reset and bring you on as the CEO.” Well, let's go back to like, what makes me tick. I love ambiguity. I love a challenge. And this has been a bit of a turnaround in that great capabilities, but lost its way in COVID, because leadership lost its way. So there's a lot of resetting that needed to occur. Corpus of the firm, great technology, great capabilities, but business model adaptation, go to market mechanisms and, frankly, environment. Environment. But I was drawn to the environment because of the people that had founded the organization. The firm was incubated within a large pharmaceutical firm. This firm called Upsher-Smith, was a Minnesota firm, the largest private and generic pharmaceutical company in the country, and sold for an awful lot of money, had been built by this family, sold in 2017 and the assets that are MOBE, mostly data, claims, analysis capabilities stayed separate, and so they incubated that, had a little bit of a data sandbox, and then it matriculated to, “Hey, we've got a real business here.” But that family has a reputation, and the individuals that founded it, and then ultimately found MOBE have a reputation. So I was very comfortable with the ambiguity of maybe not knowing health care as much as the next guy or gal, but the environment I was going into was one where I knew this family and these investors lived to high ethical standards, and there's many stories as to how I know that, but I knew that, and that gave me a ton of comfort. And then it was, “We trust you make it happen. So I got lucky. Naviere Walkewicz 30:33 Well, you're, I think, just the way that you're wired and the fact that you come from a place of trust, obviously, you know, OK, I don't have the, you know, like the medical background, but there are a lot of experts here that I'm going to trust to bring that expertise to me. And I'm going to help create an environment that they can really thrive in. Mike Ott 30:47 I'm certain many of our fellow alum have been in this experience, had these experiences where a leader worth his or her salt should be comfortable not being the smartest gal or guy in the room. In fact, you should strive for that to be the case and have a sense of lack of hubris and proudly acknowledge what you don't know. But what I do know is how to set vision. What I do know is how to move people without authority. What I do know is how to resource. And that's what you do if you want to move a mission, whether it's in the military, small firm like us that's getting bigger, or, you know, a big organization. You can't know it all. Naviere Walkewicz 31:30 So something you just mentioned that I think a lot of our listeners would really like, would love a little bit to peel us back a little bit. You said, “I know how to set a vision. I know how to…” I think it was move…   Mike Ott 31:45 Move people without authority and prioritize.   Naviere Walkewicz 31:47 But can we talk a little bit about that? Because I think that is really a challenge that some of our you know younger leaders, or those early in their leadership roles struggle with. Maybe, can you talk a little bit about that? Mike Ott 32:01 For sure, I had some — again, I tried to do my best to apply all the moments I had at the Academy and the long list of just like, “What were you thinking?” But the kindness piece comes through and… Think as a civilian outside looking in. They look at the military. It's very, very, very structured, OK, but the best leaders the men and women for whom you and I have served underneath or supported, never once barked an order, OK? They expressed intent, right? And you and I and all the other men and women in uniform, if we were paying attention, right, sought to execute the mission and satisfaction of that intent and make our bosses' bosses' jobs easier. That's really simple. And many outsiders looking in, we get back to just leadership that are civilians. They think, “Oh my gosh, these men and women that are in the military, they just can't assimilate. They can't make it in the civilian world.” And they think, because we come from this very, very hierarchical organization, yes, it is very hierarchical — that's a command structure that's necessary for mission execution — but the human part, right? I think military men and women leaders are among the best leaders, because guess what? We're motivating men and women — maybe they get a pat on the back. You didn't get a ribbon, right? Nobody's getting a year-end bonus, nobody's getting a spot bonus, nobody's getting equity in the Air Force, and it's gonna go public, right? It's just not that. So the best men and women that I for whom I've worked with have been those that have been able to get me to buy in and move and step up, and want to demonstrate my skills in coordination with others, cross functionally in the organization to get stuff done. And I think if there's anything we can remind emerging graduates, you know, out of the Academy, is: Don't rely on rank ever. Don't rely on rank. I had a moment: I was a dorky second lieutenant engineer, and we were launching a new system. It was a joint system for Marines, Navy and Air Force, and I had to go from Boston to Langley quite often because it was a TAC-related system, Tactical Air Force-related system. And the I was the program manager, multi-million dollar program for an interesting radio concept. And we were putting it into F-15s, so in some ground-based situations. And there was this E-8, crusty E-8, smoked, Vietnam, all these things, and he was a comms dude, and one of the systems was glitching. It just wasn't working, right? And we were getting ready to take this thing over somewhere overseas. And he pulls alongside me, and it's rather insubordinate, but it was a test, right? He's looking at me, Academy guy, you know, second lieutenant. He was a master sergeant, and he's like, “Well, son, what are we going to do now?” In other words, like, “We're in a pickle. What are we going to do now?” But calling me son. Yeah, it's not appropriate, right? If I'd have been hierarchical and I'd relied on rank, I probably would have been justified to let him have it. Like, that's playing short ball, right? I just thought for a second, and I just put my arm around him. I said, “Gee, Dad, I was hoping you're gonna help me.” And mother rat, we figured it out, and after that, he was eating out of my hand. So it was a test, right? Don't be afraid to be tested but don't take the bait. Naviere Walkewicz 35:46 So many good just lessons in each of these examples. Can you share a time at MOBE when you've seen someone that has been on your team that has demonstrated that because of the environment you've created? Mike Ott 35:57 For sure. So I've been running the firm now for about three and a half years. Again, have adapted and enhanced our capabilities, changed the business model a bit, yet functioning in our approach to the marketplace remains the same. We help people get better, and we get paid based on the less spend they have in the system. Part of some of our principles at MOBE are pretty simple, like, eat, sleep, move, smile, all right. And then be thoughtful with your medication. We think that medicine is an aid, not a cure. Your body's self-healing and your mind controls your body.   Naviere Walkewicz 36:32 Eat, sleep, move, smile. Love that.   Mike Ott 36:35 So what's happening with MOBE, and what I've seen is the same is true with how I've altered our leadership team. I've got some amazing leaders — very, very, very accomplished. But there are some new leaders because others just didn't fit in. There wasn't the sense of communal trust that I expected. There was too much, know-it-all'ing going on, right? And I just won't have that. So the easiest way to diffuse that isn't about changing head count, but it's around exhibiting vulnerability in front of all these folks and saying, “Look, I don't know that, but my lead pharmacist here, my lead clinician here, helped me get through those things.” But I do have one leader right, who is our head of vice president of HR, a woman who grew up on a farm in southern Minnesota, who has come to myself and our president and shared that she feels liberated at MOBE because, though this firm is larger than one that she served as a director of HR, previously, she's never had to look — check her six, look right, look left and seek alignment to ensure she's harmonizing with people. Naviere Walkewicz 37:49 Can you imagine being in an environment like that? Mike Ott 38:51 It's terrible, it's toxic, and it's wrong. Leaders, within the organization, I think you're judged more by what you don't do and the actions that you don't take. You can establish trust, and you will fortify that trust when you share with the team as best you can, so long as it's nothing inappropriate, where you made a mistake, where we went wrong. What did we learn from that? Where are we going to pivot? How we're going to apply that learning to make it better, as opposed to finding blame, pointing the finger or not even acknowledging? That happens all the time, and that toxicity erodes. And regretfully, my VP of HR in prior roles experienced that, and I don't have time. Good teams shouldn't have time to rehearse the basic values of the firm. We don't have time the speed of business is like this [snaps]. So if I can build the team of men and women that trust one another, can stay in their lanes, but also recognize that they're responsible for helping run the business, and look over at the other lanes and help their fellow leaders make adjustments without the indictful comment or without sort of belittling or shaming. That's what good teams, do. You, and I did that in the Air Force, but it is not as common as you would think. Naviere Walkewicz 39:11 20 we've been talking about MOBE, and you know, the environment you're creating there, and just the way that you're working through innovation. Let's talk a little bit how you're involved with DIU, the Defense Innovation Unit. Mike Ott 39:21 Again, it's reputation in relationships. And it was probably 2010, I get a call from a fellow grad, '87 grad who was living in the Beltway, still in uniform. He was an O-5 I was an O-5. Just doing the Academy liaison work, helping good young men and women that wanted to go to the Academy get in. And that was super satisfying, thought that would be the end of my Reserve career and super fun. And this is right when the first Obama administration came in, and one of his edicts and his admin edicts was, we've got to find ways to embrace industry more, right? We can't rely on the primes, just the primes. So those were just some seeds, and along with a couple other grads, created what is now called Joint Reserve Directorate, which was spawned DIUX, which was DIU Experimental, is spawned from. So I was the owner for JRD, and DIUX as a reserve officer. And that's how we all made colonel is we were working for the chief technology officer of the Defense Department, the Hon. Zach Lemnios, wonderful fellow. Civilian, didn't have much military experience, but boy, the guy knew tech — semiconductors and areas like that. But this was the beginning of the United States recognizing that our R&D output, OK, in the aggregate, as a fund, as a percentage of GDP, whether it's coming out of the commercial marketplace or the military DoD complex, needs to be harnessed against the big fight that we have with China. We can see, you know, we've known about that for 30 years. So this is back 14 years ago. And the idea was, let's bring in men and women — there was a woman in our group too that started this area — and was like, “How do we create essential boundary span, boundary spanners, or dual-literacy people that are experiences in capital markets, finance, how capital is accumulated, innovation occurs, but then also how that applies into supporting the warfighter. So we were given a sandbox. We were given a blank slate.   Naviere Walkewicz 41:37 It's your happy place.   Mike Ott 41:38 Oh, super awesome. And began to build out relationships at Silicon Valley with commercial entities, and developed some concepts that are now being deployed with DIU and many other people came in and brought them all to life. But I was lucky enough after I retired from the Reserves as a colonel to be asked to come back as an adviser, because of that background and that experience, the genesis of the organization. So today I'm an unpaid SGE — special government employee — to help DIU look across a variety of different domains. And so I'm sure many of our listeners know it's key areas that we've got to harness the commercial marketplace. We know that if you go back into the '70s, ‘60s and ‘70s, and creation of the internet, GPS, precision munitions and all of that, the R&D dollars spent in the aggregate for the country, 95% came out of DOD is completely flip flopped today. Completely flipped. We happen to live in an open, free society. We hope to have capital markets and access a lot of that technology isn't burdened like it might be in China. And so that's the good and bad of this open society that we have. We've got to find ways. So we, the team does a lot of great work, and I just help them think about capital markets, money flows, threat finance. How you use financial markets to interdict, listen, see signals, but then also different technologies across cyberspace, autonomy, AI. Goodness gracious, I'm sure there's a few others. There's just so much. So I'm just an interloper that helps them think about that, and it's super fun that they think that I can be helpful. Naviere Walkewicz 43:29 Well, I think I was curious on how, because you love the ambiguity, and that's just something that fills your bucket — so while you're leading MOBE and you're creating something very stable, it sounds like DIU and being that kind of special employee, government employee, helps you to fill that need for your ambiguous side.   Mike Ott 43:48 You're right. You're right.   Naviere Walkewicz 43:49 Yeah, I thought that's really fascinating. Well, I think it's wonderful that you get to create that and you just said, the speed of business is this [snaps]. How do you find time in your life to balance what you also put your values around — your health — when you have such an important job and taking care of so many people? Mike Ott 44:06 I think we're all pretty disciplined at the Academy, right? I remain that way, and I'm very, very — I'm spring loaded to ‘no,' right? “Hey, do you want to go do this?” Yeah, I want to try do, I want to do a lot of things, but I'm spring loaded. So like, “Hey, you want to go out and stay, stay up late and have a drink?” “No,” right? “Do you want to do those things?” So I'm very, very regimented in that I get eight hours of sleep, right? And even somebody, even as a cadet, one of the nicknames my buddies gave me was Rip Van Ott, right? Because I'm like, “This is it.” I was a civil engineer. One of my roommates was an astro guy, and I think he pulled an all-nighter once a week.   Naviere Walkewicz 45:46 Oh, my goodness, yeah.   Mike Ott 45:50 Like, “Dude, what are you doing?” And it wasn't like he was straight As. I was clearly not straight As, but I'm like, “What are you doing? That's not helpful. Do the work ahead of time.” I think I maybe pulled three or four all-nighters my entire four years. Now, it's reflected in my GPA. I get that, but I finished the engineering degree. But sleep matters, right? And some things are just nonnegotiable, and that is, you know, exercise, sleep and be kind to yourself, right? Don't compare. If you're going to compare, compare yourself to yesterday, but don't look at somebody who is an F-15 pilot, and you're not. Like, I'm not. My roommate, my best man at my wedding, F-15 pilot, Test Pilot School, all these things, amazing, amazing, awesome, and super, really, really, happy and proud for him, but that's his mojo; that's his flow, right? If you're gonna do any comparison, compare yourself to the man or woman you were yesterday and “Am I better?”. Naviere Walkewicz 44:48 The power of “no” and having those nonnegotiables is really important. Mike Ott 45:53 Yeah, no, I'm not doing that. Naviere Walkewicz 45:56 I think sometimes we're wired for a “we can take on… we can take it on, we can take it on, we can take it on. We got this.” Mike Ott 46:03 For sure. Oh, my goodness. And I have that discussion with people on my team from time to time as well, and it's most often as it relates to an individual on the team that's struggling in his or her role, or whether it's by you know, if it's by omission and they're in the wrong role, that's one thing. If it's by commission, well, be a leader and execute and get that person out of there, right? That's wrong, but from time to time, it's by omission, and somebody is just not well placed. And I've seen managers, I can repatriate this person. I can get him or her there, and you have to stop for a second and tell that leader, “Yeah, I know you can. I'm certain that the only thing you were responsible for was to help that person fulfill the roles of the job that they're assigned. You could do it.” But guess what? You've got 90% of your team that needs care, nurturing and feeding. They're delivering in their function, neglect, there destroys careers, and it's going to destroy the business. So don't, don't get caught up in that. Yeah. Pack it on. Pack it on. Pack it on. You're right. When someone's in the crosshairs, I want to be in the crosshairs with you, Naviere, and Ted, and all the people that you and I affiliate with, but on the day-to-day, sustained basis, right to live, you know, to execute and be fulfilled, both in the mission, the work and stay fit, to fight and do it again. You can't. You can't. And a lot of a little bit of no goes a long way. Naviere Walkewicz 47:40 That is really good to hear. I think that's something that a lot of leaders really don't share. And I think that's really wonderful that you did. I'd like to take a little time and pivot into another area that you're heavily involved, philanthropy side. You know, you've been with the Falcon Foundation. Where did you find that intent inside of you? I mean, you always said the Academy's been part of you, but you found your way back in that space in other ways. Let's talk about that. Mike Ott 48:05 Sure. Thank you. I don't know. I felt that service is a part of me, right? And it is for all of us, whether you stay in the military or not. Part of my financial services jobs have been in wealth management. I was lucky enough to run that business for US Bank in one of my capacities, and here I am now in health care, health care of service. That aligns with wanting things to be better across any other angle. And the philanthropic, philanthropic side of things — I probably couldn't say that word when I was a cadet, but then, you know, I got out and we did different volunteer efforts. We were at Hanscom Field raising money for different organizations, and stayed with it, and always found ways to have fun with it. But recognized I couldn't… It was inefficient if I was going to be philanthropic around something that I didn't have a personal interest in. And as a senior executive at US Bank, we were all… It was tacit to the role you had roles in local foundations or community efforts. And I remember sitting down with my boss, the CFO of the bank, and then the CEO, and they'd asked me to go on to a board, and it had to do with a museum that I had no interest in, right? And I had a good enough relationship with these, with these guys, to say, “Look, I'm a good dude. I'm going to be helpful in supporting the bank. And if this is a have to, all right, I'll do it, but you got the wrong guy. Like, you want me to represent the bank passionately, you know, philanthropically, let me do this. And they're like, “OK, great.” So we pivoted, and I did other things. And the philanthropic piece of things is it's doing good. It's of service for people, entities, organizations, communities or moments that can use it. And I it's just very, very satisfying to me. So my wife and I are pretty involved that way, whether it's locally, with different organizations, lot of military support. The Academy, we're very fond of. It just kind of became a staple. Naviere Walkewicz 50:35 Did you find yourself also gravitating toward making better your community where you grew up? Mike Ott 50:41 Yeah, yeah, yeah. One of my dear friends that grew up in the same neighborhood, he wound up going to the Naval Academy, and so we're we've been friends for 50 years. Seventh grade.   Naviere Walkewicz 50:53 Same counselor? Mike Ott50:54 Yeah, no. Different counselor, different high school. His parents had a little bit of money, and they, he wound up going to a Catholic school nearby. But great guy, and so he and I, he runs a business that serves the VA in Chicago, and I'm on the board, and we do an awful lot of work. And one of the schools we support is a school on the south side, largely African American students and helping them with different STEM projects. It's not going to hit above the fold of a newspaper, but I could give a rat, doesn't matter to me, seeing a difference, seeing these young men and women. One of them, one of these boys, it's eye watering, but he just found out that he was picked for, he's applying to the Naval Academy, and he just found out that he got a nomination.   Naviere Walkewicz 51:44 Oh my goodness, I just got chills.   Mike Ott 51:46 And so, yeah, yeah, right, right. But it's wonderful. And his parents had no idea anything like that even existed. So that's one that it's not terribly formal, but boy, it looks great when you see the smile on that kid and the impact on that individual, but then the impact it leaves on the community, because it's clear opportunity for people to aspire because they know this young man or this young woman, “I can do that too.” Naviere Walkewicz 52:22 Wow. So he got his nomination, and so he would start technically making class of 2030?   Mike Ott 52:27 That's right. Naviere Walkewicz 52:28 Oh, how exciting. OK Well, that's a wonderful…   Mike Ott 52:27 I hope, I hope, yeah, he's a great kid. Naviere Walkewicz 52:33 Oh, that is wonderful. So you talk about, you know that spirit of giving — how have you seen, I guess, in your journey, because it hasn't been linear. We talked about how you know progression is not linear. How have you grown throughout these different experiences? Because you kind of go into a very ambiguous area, and you bring yourself, and you grow in it and you make it better. But how have you grown? What does that look like for you? Mike Ott 53:02 After having done it several times, right, i.e. entering the fray of an ambiguous environment business situation, I developed a better system and understanding of what do I really need to do out of the gates? And I've grown that way and learn to not be too decisive too soon. Decisiveness is a great gift. It's really, really it's important. It lacks. It lacks because there are too many people, less so in the military, that want to be known for having made… don't want to be known for having made a bad decision, so they don't take that risk. Right, right, right. And so that creates just sort of the static friction, and you've just got to have faith and so, but I've learned how to balance just exactly when to be decisive. And the other thing that I know about me is I am drawn to ambiguity. I am drawn… Very, very curious. Love to learn, try new things, have a range of interests and not very good at any one thing, but that range helps me in critical thinking. So I've learned to, depending on the situation, right, listen, listen, and then go. It isn't a formula. It's a flow, but it's not a formula. And instinct matters when to be decisive. Nature of the people with whom you're working, nature of the mission, evolution, phase of the organization or the unit that you're in. Now is the time, right? So balancing fostering decisiveness is something that that's worth a separate discussion. Naviere Walkewicz 54:59 Right. Wow. So all of these things that you've experienced and the growth that you've had personally — do you think about is this? Is this important to you at all, the idea of, what is your legacy, or is that not? Mike Ott 55:13 We talked a little bit about this beforehand, and I thought I've got to come up with something pithy, right? And I really, I really don't.   Naviere Walkewicz 55:18 Yeah, you don't.   Mike Ott 55:19 I don't think of myself as that. I'm very proud of who I am and what I've done in the reputation that I have built. I don't need my name up in lights. I know the life that I'm living and the life that I hope to live for a lot longer. My legacy is just my family, my children, the mark that I've left in the organizations that I have been a part of.   Naviere Walkewicz 55:58 And the communities that you've touched, like that gentleman going and getting his nomination. I'm sure.   Mike Ott 56:04 Yeah, I don't… having been a senior leader, and even at MOBE, I'm interviewed by different newspapers and all that. Like I do it because I'm in this role, and it's important for MOBE, but I'm not that full of myself, where I got to be up in lights. So I just want to be known as a man that was trustworthy, fun, tried to meet people where they are really had flaws, and sought to overcome them with the few strengths that he had, and moved everything forward. Naviere Walkewicz 56:33 Those are the kind of leaders that people will run through fire for. That's amazing. I think that's a wonderful I mean that in itself, it's like a living legacy you do every day. How can I be better than I was yesterday? And that in itself, is a bit of your living and that's really cool. Well, one of the things we like to ask is, “What is something you're doing every day to be better as a leader?” And you've covered a lot, so I mean, you could probably go back to one of those things, but is there something that you could share with our listeners that you do personally every day, to be better? Mike Ott 57:05 Exercise and read every day, every day, and except Fridays. Fridays I take… that's like, I'll stretch or just kind of go for a walk. But every day I make it a moment, you know, 45 minutes to an hour, something and better for my head, good for my body, right? That's the process in the hierarchy of way I think about it. And then read. Gen. Mattis. And I supported Gen. Mattis as a lieutenant colonel before I wanted to and stuff at the Pentagon. And he I supported him as an innovation guy for JFCOM, where he was the commander. And even back then, he was always talking about reading is leading none of us as military leaders… And I can't hold the candle to the guy, but I learned an awful lot, and I love his mindset, and that none of us can live a life long enough to take In all the leadership lessons necessary to help us drive impact. So you better be reading about it all the time. And so I read probably an hour every night, every day.   Naviere Walkewicz 58:14 What are you reading right now?   Mike Ott 58:15 Oh, man, I left it on the plane! I was so bummed. Naviere Walkewicz 58:17 Oh, that's the worst. You're going to have to get another copy. Mike Ott 58:22 Before I came here, I ordered it from Barnes & Noble so to me at my house when I get home. Love history and reading a book by this wonderful British author named Anne Reid. And it's, I forget the title exactly, but it's how the allies at the end of World War I sought to influence Russia and overcome the Bolsheviks. They were called the interventionalists, and it was an alliance of 15 different countries, including the U.S., Britain, France, U.K., Japan, Australia, India, trying to thwart, you know, the Bolshevik Revolution — trying to thwart its being cemented. Fascinating, fascinating. So that's what I was reading until I left it on the plane today. Naviere Walkewicz 59:07 How do you choose what to read? Mike Ott 59:10 Listen, write, love history. Love to read Air Force stuff too. Just talk to friends, right? You know, they've learned how to read like me. So we get to talk and have fun with that. Naviere Walkewicz 59:22 That's great. Yeah, that's wonderful. Well, the last question I'd like to ask you, before I want to make sure you have an opportunity to cover anything we didn't, is what is something you would share with others that they can do to become better leaders? Maybe they start doing it now, so in the future, they're even stronger as a leader. Mike Ott 59:42 Two things I would say, and try to have these exist in the same breath in the same moment, is have the courage to make it try and make it better every day, all right, and be kind to yourself, be forgiving. Naviere Walkewicz 59:59 That's really powerful. Can you share an example? And I know I that's we could just leave it there, but being courageous and then being kind to yourself, they're almost on two opposite sides. Have you had, can you share an example where I guess you've done that right? You had to be you were courageous and making something better, and maybe it didn't go that way, so you have to be kind to yourself. Mike Ott 1:00:23 Yeah, happy to and I think any cadet will hear this story and go like, “Huh, wow, that's interesting.” And it also plays with the arc of progress isn't linear. I graduated in '85 went to flight school, got halfway through flight school, and there was a RIF, reduction in force. And our class, our flight class, I was flying jets, I was soloing. I was academically — super easy, flying average, right? You know, I like to joke that I've got the fine motor skills of a ham sandwich, right? You know, but, but I didn't finish flight school. And you think about this, here it is. I started in 1981 there were still vestiges of Vietnam. Everyone's going to be a fighter pilot. Kill, kill, kill. Blood makes the grass grow. All of that was there. And I remember when this happened, it was very frustrating for me. It was mostly the major root of frustration wasn't that I wasn't finishing flight school. It was the nature by which the determination that I wasn't finishing was made. And it was, it was a financial decision. We had too many guys and gals, and they were just finding, you know, average folks and then kicking them out. So our class graduated a lower percent than, I think, in that era, it was late '85, '86, maybe '87, but you can look at outflows, and it was interesting, they were making budget cuts. So there was a shaming part there, having gone to the Academy.   Naviere Walkewicz 1:02:02 And knowing since 9 years old. Mike Ott 1:20:04 Right, right, right, and I knew I wanted to go the Academy. I'd like to fly, let's check it out and see if it's for me. I would much rather have been not for me, had I made the decision I don't want to do this or that I was just unsafe and didn't want to do it. The way it turned out is, and this is where I learned a little bit about politics as well. In my class, again, I was very average. Like, nobody's ever going to say, like, yeah, I was going to go fly the Space Shuttle. Like, no way, right? Very, very average, but doing just fine. And a lot of guys and gals wanted to go be navigators, and that's great. I looked in the regs, and I learned this as a cadet, and it's helped me in business, too. If there's a rule, there's a waiver. Like, let me understand the regs, and I asked to go to a board. Instead of just submitting a letter to appeal, I asked to go to a board. And so I went to a board of an O-5 five, couple of threes O-4 four, and ultimately shared the essence of why I shouldn't be terminated in the program. And son of a gun, they agreed, and I still have the letter. The letter says, “Recommend Lt. Ott for reinstatement.” Nobody in my class has that letter, nobody makes the appeal. And I'm like, I'm going downstream. I'm going downstream. And that's the Chicago in me, and that's the piece about… but also move forward, but forgive yourself, and I'll get to that. And so I, I was thrilled, My goodness, and the argument I had is, like, look, you're just not keeping me current. You put me in the sim, and then you're waiting too long to put me in the jet. The regs don't allow for that. And like, you're right. So I'm assigned to go back to the jet. My pals are thrilled. I'm going to stay in the same class. I don't have to wash back. And then I get a call from the DO's office — director of operations — and it was from some civilian person so the DO overrode the board's decision. Heartbreaking. Heartbreaking.   Naviere Walkewicz 1:04:12 You were so high, you did all of your work. And then… Mike Ott 1:04:15 Yeah, and then heartbreaking and frustrating, and I guess the word is indignant: anger aroused through frustration. In that I figured it out. I knew exactly what's happening. I made the appeal and I won. And it wasn't I was expecting to be assigned to fly a fighter. It was like, “Just let me, let me express the merits of my capabilities. It's how the system is designed.” The son of a gun, I jumped in my car and I ran to base and I waited and reported in. He didn't really know who I was. That's because he didn't make a decision. It was just it was that decision, and that's how life comes at you. That's just how it is. It isn't linear. So how do you take that and then say, “Well, I'm going to be kind to myself and make something out of it.” And he went through, you know, a dissertation as to why, and I asked him if I could share my views, and it's pretty candid, and I just said, If my dad were something other than the Chicago policeman, and maybe if he was a senator or general officer, I wouldn't be sitting here. That lit him up, right? That lit him up. But I had to state my views. So I knew I was out of the program. Very, very frustrating. Could have had the mayor of Chicago call. Didn't do that, right? Like, OK, I understand where this is it. That was very frustrating and somewhat shaming. But where the forgiveness comes in and be kind to yourself, is that I ran into ground. I ran into ground and drove an outcome where I still… It's a moment of integrity. I drove an outcome like, there you go. But then what do you do? Forgive yourself, right? Because you didn't do anything wrong, OK? And you pivot. And I turned that into a moment where I started cold calling instructors at the Academy. Because, hey, now I owe the Air Force five years, Air Force is looking for, you know, things that I don't want to do. And thank goodness I had an engineering degree, and I cold called a guy at a base in Hanscom. And this is another tap on the shoulder.   Naviere Walkewicz 1:06:24 That's how you got to Hanscom. Gotcha.   Mike Ott 1:06:27 There was a friend who was Class of '83, a woman who was in my squadron, who was there. Great egg. And she's like, “Hey, I was at the O Club.” Called her. I said, “Hey, help me out. I got this engineering degree. I want to go to one of these bases. Called Lt. Col. Davis, right? I met him at the O Club. I called a guy, and he's like, “Yeah, let's do this.”   Naviere Walkewicz 1:06:44 Wow, I love that..   Mike Ott 1:06:46 It was fantastic So it's a long winded way, but progress isn't linear. And progressing through that and not being a victim, right, recognizing the conditions and the environment that I could control and those that I can't. Anything that I could control, I took advantage of and I sought to influence as best possible. Ran into ground and I feel great about it, and it turns out to be a testament of one of my best successes. Naviere Walkewicz 1:07:17 Wow. Thank you for sharing

HAMAS IS TESTING THE WATERS --FDD Senior Fellow Lt. Col. (Ret.) Jonathan Conricus provides timely situational updates and analysis, followed by a conversation with Gadi Ezra, former director of Israel's National Public Diplomacy Unit.Learn more at: fdd.org/fddmorningbrief--Featured FDD Pieces:"Is Trump Getting Played by Xi?" - Matt Pottinger, The Free Press"Trump rallies the allies to break China's dangerous mineral, rare earths monopoly" - Elaine Dezenski, New York Post"How Turkish Arms End Up in African Conflicts" - Sinan Ciddi and William Doran, Foreign Policy

Gordon Chang, Asia expert, columnist and author of "China is Going to War"Topic: Trump's meeting with Xi Daniel Hoffman, Ret. CIA Senior Clandestine Services Officer and a Fox News ContributorTopic: Trump's decision to restart nuclear weapons testing and how this impacts Russia and China Gerard S. LaRocca, Vice Chairman, National Italian American FoundationTopic: Italian American Heritage Month Stephen Moore, "Joe Piscopo Show" Resident Scholar of Economics, Chairman of FreedomWorks Task Force on Economic Revival, former Trump economic adviser and the author of "The Trump Economic Miracle: And the Plan to Unleash Prosperity Again"Topic: Federal Reserve cutting interest rate to its lowest level in three years Hogan Gidley, Former National Press Secretary for the Trump campaign and former White House Deputy Press SecretaryTopic: Turning Point USA event, Trump's meeting with Xi Stephen Parr, Meteorologist for "The Joe Piscopo Show" and co-host of "American Ground Radio" on AM 970 The AnswerTopic: Hurricane Melissa Gregg Jarrett, Legal and political analyst for Fox News Channel and the author of "The Trial Of The Century"Topic: Legalities of the Biden autopen scandal, other legal and political news of the day Liz Peek, Fox News contributor, columnist for Fox News and The Hill, and former partner of major bracket Wall Street firm Wertheim & CompanyTopic: "How the left's embrace of Mamdani could doom Democrats nationwide" (Fox News op ed)See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Trump returns to DC after trade talks in Asia, meeting President Xi of China. Ret. Maj. Gen. Bill Crane explains risks of relying on China for critical minerals. Plus, nuclear testing, government shutdown updates, and Pope Leo XIV meets students at the Jubilee of the World of Education.

"The Weight of Command: The Ehime Maru Tragedy and the Case for Transparency" with Admiral Thomas B Fargo   Welcome to Episode 29, Season 9 of A CEO's Virtual Mentor® In this compelling episode of Leadership Lyceum: A CEO's Virtual Mentor®, we are joined by a distinguished leader whose career has been defined by service, responsibility, and command at the highest levels of the United States Navy. Admiral Thomas B. Fargo served as a four-star admiral and commander of the United States Pacific Command, the largest unified command in the world, overseeing operations across half the globe. Across not only his military career, but also across his board leadership service, Admiral Fargo is known for his steady hand in times of crisis and moral clarity under pressure: qualities that are grounded in his deep commitment to accountability and transparency. This episode of A CEO's Virtual Mentor® entitled "The Weight of Command: The Ehime Maru Tragedy and the Case for Transparency" reveals those qualities under the pressure of deep crisis and human tragedy in the aftermath of the tragic collision of the USS Greeneville, a nuclear-powered submarine, and the Japanese fishery training vessel, the Ehime Maru off Oahu on February 9th, 2001, a tragedy that took the lives of nine Japanese citizens, including four high school students. As commander of the Pacific Fleet at the time, Admiral Fargo was responsible for the Navy's response. Our episode today takes us back almost 25 years ago to the incident and to the decisions in the aftermath. The episode is divided into five segments: 1.     The Incident: The story opens with a vivid recounting of the 2001 collision between the USS Greeneville, a U.S. Navy nuclear-powered submarine, and the Japanese training vessel Ehime Maru off Oahu. Admiral Fargo, then Commander of the Pacific Fleet, reflects on the moment he received the first report and the gravity of what unfolded—a tragedy that claimed nine lives and strained U.S.–Japan relations. The segment sets the stage for a crisis that would test not only naval command but also the moral fiber of leadership itself. 2.    The Ever-Elusive Facts: In every crisis, the first reports are wrong. Admiral Fargo recounts how the Navy struggled to uncover the truth amid incomplete, often misleading information—compounded by legal, diplomatic, and media pressures. Drawing parallels to the 1988 USS Vincennes - Iranian Airbus tragedy, this segment examines the tension between speed and accuracy in crisis communication, and how early missteps can shape public perception for years. 3.    The Investigation: With multiple options before him—a classified inquiry, internal settlement, court-martial, or a public court of inquiry—Admiral Fargo faced a defining choice. Guided by the principle that "some events cannot be delegated," he chose full transparency, rejecting secrecy even at the cost of institutional discomfort. This decision, rooted in lessons from the Navy's past, particularly the Tailhook scandal, set the tone for how the service would regain trust through openness. 4.    The Court of Inquiry: The rare and rigorous process unfolds. Three senior flag officers—an aviator, a submariner, and a surface warfare officer—are appointed, joined symbolically by a Japanese admiral to safeguard the interests of the victims' families. As the inquiry proceeds under intense public scrutiny, painful truths emerge: procedural lapses, haste under pressure, and breakdowns in communication. The court's findings affirm accountability while preserving fairness—showing that leadership's true test lies in how justice is pursued when tragedy strikes. 5.    Epilogue on Leadership in Reflection: In the closing segment, Admiral Fargo reflects on the enduring lessons of command—trusting one's instincts, fostering an environment where truth can be spoken freely, and upholding personal accountability even when law or policy might allow retreat. His story culminates in a powerful act of restitution: the unprecedented salvage of the Ehime Maru to recover the remains of the lost. Through this effort, Fargo demonstrated that the highest form of leadership lives not in procedure, but in conscience—in what Lord Moulton called "obedience to the unenforceable."   Program Guide A CEO's Virtual Mentor® Episode 29 "The Weight of Command: The Ehime Maru Tragedy and the Case for Transparency" with Admiral Thomas B Fargo 0:00              Introduction to the program and to our guest, Ret. Admiral Thomas B. Fargo, Commander of the United States Pacific Command. 3:16               Part 1: The Incident 22:06             Break 1 22:12             Part 2: The Ever-Elusive Facts 30:35             Break 2 31:06             Part 3: The Investigation 41:17               Break 3 41:48             Part 4: The Court of Inquiry  48:06             Break 4 – Intermediate Break  48:12              Part 4: The Court of Inquiry (continued)  54:13              Break 5  54:22             Part 5: Epilogue on Leadership in Reflection 1:04:27           Lyceum's Reflective Closing Comments   We would like to express our special thanks to the clients of Lyceum Leadership Consulting that enable us to bring you this podcast.   Links to Biographies of Guests Admiral Thomas B. Fargo Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_B._Fargo#:~:text=Admiral%20Thomas%20Boulton%20Fargo%20AO,officer%20to%20hold%20the%20position Your host Thomas B. Linquist is the Founder and Managing Director of Lyceum Leadership Consulting and Lyceum Leadership Productions. Over his 25 years in management and leadership consulting he has served a wide array of corporate clients.  This includes leadership assessment and search for chief executive officers, chief financial officers, chief operating officers and directors of boards.  He holds an MBA from the University of Chicago and over his 35-year career has served in a variety of roles: as an engineer with Shell Oil Company, a banker with ABN AMRO Bank, and as treasurer was the youngest corporate officer in the 150+ year history at Peoples Energy Company in Chicago.  He is an expert on hiring and promotion decisions and leadership development.  Over the course of his search and advisory career, Tom has interviewed thousands of leaders and authored numerous articles exploring group decision-making under uncertainty, board effectiveness, and leadership development. Join the Lyceum Circle of Leaders®  a community of forward-thinking leaders  dedicated to improving leadership through shared intelligence. Please spread the word among your fellow executives and board colleagues.   Program Disclaimer The only purpose of the podcast is to educate, inform and entertain. The information shared is based on the collection of experiences of each of the guests interviewed and should not be considered or substituted for professional advice. Guests who speak in this podcast express their own opinions, experience and conclusions, and neither The Leadership Lyceum LLC nor any company providing financial support endorses or opposes any particular content, recommendation or methodology discussed in this podcast. Follow Leadership Lyceum on: Our website: www.LeadershipLyceum.com LinkedIn: The Leadership Lyceum LLC Email us: info@LeadershipLyceum.com This podcast Leadership Lyceum: A CEO's Virtual Mentor® has been a production of The Leadership Lyceum LLC. Copyright 2025. All rights reserved.

Hugh discusses Israel-Gaza, the Mayoral race in NYC, and the Gubernatorial race in New Jersey, and talks with Sen. Tom Cotton, Dr. Michael Oren, Bethany Mandel, Adm. Mark Montgomery (USN, Ret.), and Vic Matus.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Maureen and Jim continue their conversation with Ret. Capt. Jason Koehler- A real-life special Operations Veteran who has lived with an extraordinary life and career.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

52:44- Nicole Parker, Special Agent with the FBI from 2010 through October 2022 and a Fox News contributor Topic: FBI gambling probe 1:01:45- Matthew Classi, founding partner and managing member of GCP Capital Group Topic: Italian American Heritage Month 1:11:35- Corey Lewandowski, Trump 2024 Senior Official Topic: Trump's anti-cartel task force, press conference from the Oval Office 1:27:10- Gordon Chang, Asia expert, columnist and author of "China is Going to War" Topic: Trump's upcoming meeting with Xi 1:36:18- Daniel Patino, Fundraiser for Food for the Poor Topic: Food for the Poor 1:47:15- Daniel Hoffman, Ret. CIA Senior Clandestine Services Officer and a Fox News ContributorTopic: Putin's defiance over sanctions, Russia violating NATO airspace in Lithuania 1:59:58- Lt. Col. Robert Maginnis, a retired U.S. Army officer and an experienced military analyst with on-the-ground experience inside Russia and Ukraine and the author of "Preparing for World War III" Topic: "Five possible futures for Middle East from renaissance to rockets" (Fox News op ed) 2:07:01- Sheriff Shaun Golden, Monmouth County Sheriff Topic: Jack CiattarelliSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

From the Pentagon on 9/11 to keeping service members safe through timely innovation, Dave Harden ‘95 embodies what it means to run toward the fire. SUMMARY In this episode of Long Blue Leadership with host Lt. Col. (Ret.) Naviere Walkewicz '99, hear how adversity, gratitude and courage forged a leader others would follow anywhere. From his harrowing experience during the 9/11 attacks to overcoming childhood adversity and pioneering innovation in the Air Force, Dave Harden shares practical lessons on gratitude, resilience and the importance of running toward challenges rather than away from them. The conversation emphasizes that true leadership is forged in the fire of adversity and that gratitude can transform hardship into fuel for growth.   SHARE THIS EPISODE LINKEDIN | FACEBOOK   DAVE'S LEADERSHIP TAKEAWAYS Leadership is about how we respond in crisis. Everyone has a personal story of 9/11. Muscle memory from training prepares us for challenges. Gratitude shifts our perspective from burden to opportunity. Looking up fosters hope and gratitude. Gratitude can transform lives and relationships. Innovation is crucial for effective leadership. Courage is a choice we make every day. Hardships prepare us for future leadership roles. True leaders run toward the fire, not away from it.   CHAPTERS 00:00 Introduction to Leadership Lessons 01:28 The Impact of 9/11 on Leadership 09:40 Overcoming Childhood Adversity 14:27 The Power of Gratitude 16:56 Innovation in the Air Force 24:43 Transitioning to the Private Sector 31:16 Courage and Leadership Choices   ABOUT DAVE HARDEN BIO Dave Harden is a Class of 1995 graduate of the United States Air Force Academy, where he earned his B.S. in electrical engineering and began a distinguished career in the U.S. Air Force Reserve. He went on to serve at the Pentagon as chief of strategic prioritization for the Air Force and later as the chief architect and chief operating officer of AFWERX, the service's innovation accelerator. Building on that experience, he founded and now leads Outpost Ventures (also known as “The Outpost”), a firm dedicated to guiding dual-use technology companies across the so-called “valley of death” from promising concept to real nation-scale impact. At Outpost Ventures, Harden leverages his deep experience in national security, technology transition and strategic decision-making to help entrepreneurs navigate both government and commercial ecosystems. His blend of military leadership, innovation acumen and venture focus makes him a valued partner for founders tackling the toughest problems at the intersection of defense and industry.   CONNECT WITH DAVE LinkedIn Outpost Ventures CONNECT WITH THE LONG BLUE LEADERSHIP PODCAST NETWORK TEAM Send your feedback or nominate a guest: socialmedia@usafa.org Ted Robertson | Producer:  Ted.Robertson@USAFA.org    Ryan Hall | Director:  Ryan.Hall@USAFA.org  Bryan Grossman | Copy Editor:  Bryan.Grossman@USAFA.org Wyatt Hornsby | Executive Producer:  Wyatt.Hornsby@USAFA.org      ALL PAST LBL EPISODES  |  ALL LBLPN PRODUCTIONS AVAILABLE ON ALL MAJOR PODCAST PLATFORMS     TRANSCRIPT   OUR SPEAKERS Guest, Dave "Big D" Harden '95  |  Host, Lt. Col. (Ret.) Naviere Walkewicz '99 Col. Naviere Walkewicz 0:12 Welcome to Long Blue Leadership, where we explore the lessons of leadership through the lives and stories of Air Force Academy graduates. I'm your host, Naviere Walkewicz, Class of '99. My guest today is Dave Harden, Class of 1995. Dave is widely accepted in the Long Blue Line community for his leadership, service, business acumen and his willingness to run toward the fire. Dave Harden 0:35 When bad things are happening and fires are burning around you, you won't even think for a second, “I need to help someone. I need to do the thing.” Naviere Walkewicz 0:46 From his time as a C-17 pilot to his work at the Pentagon and in the private sector, David's faced both personal and professional moments that shaped not just his career, but his philosophy of leadership. In our conversation, we'll talk about three transformative moments in his journey — from being just 400 feet away from impact during the 9/11 attack on the Pentagon, to overcoming hardships in his childhood, to his work pioneering innovation at the highest levels in government and business. Along the way, we'll hear about the meaning behind his call sign, “Big D,” and engage in practical leadership lessons that have transformed his life and can transform yours. This is a conversation for cadets, aspiring leaders, seasoned business professionals and lifelong learners alike, because leadership isn't just about what we do; it's how we respond when the fire is burning right in front of us. Dave, welcome to Long Blue Leadership. Dave Harden 1:38 Thanks for having me on today. I'm excited to be here.   Naviere Walkewicz 1:41 We are so excited, and I think this is going to be a real conversation that's extremely practical for our listeners, but we're going to jump into a really important moment, and this is one that encourages so many people — 9/11. Can you talk about that experience with us? Dave Harden 1:57 I've been able to speak over the years post the event. Talked to 15,000 people about 10 years after the event and have been able to share this story many times over, and I'm glad to be able to share it here with us today. Everyone knew what happened — kind of the Twin Towers. The first story comes out. I was busy in the thralls of my job at the Pentagon. Actually getting stuff out for President Bush, for him to make statements to some of my work in the Baltics at the time. So I wasn't really paying attention kind of to what was going on at the World Trade Center. Kind of knew what was going on. My beautiful redheaded wife, Angie, was coming to pick me up. So at the time, we had a young daughter, and she was pregnant with what would be my son, but we didn't know that at the time. So she was supposed to pick me up from the ultrasound, and so I rushed outside, and I don't remember the exact timing. Maybe she's supposed to pick me up at 9:15, 9:30, is right around, as we know now, when the plane would come into the Pentagon. So I'm out on the south bridge of the Pentagon, and it winds up being on the side of the impact of the plane would come in. And standing out there, I remember looking, it was a beautiful day, quiet, and if you remember, not a lot of people, there wasn't a lot of videos — not a lot of people actually saw the plane impact. And so those things you never forget. So that day, standing out there, I saw this plane coming. But we're by Reagan National Airport, right? So you're thinking that another plane's coming into Reagan. No big deal. I'm waiting for Angie to pick me up. She winds up being about five, 10 minutes late, and in hindsight, she always said, “If because I was late, you lost your life, I would never forgive myself.” And so I watch the plane come in, and then all of a sudden, it's like, “Holy crap! This plane is pointed right at me.” And so as it's coming straight in, I start running over the bridge. Little did I know Angie was just driving under the bridge at the time. So the plane comes over the top of her car, and as the plane impacts, if you remember, it kind of like actually careened, bounced into a 45-degree angle and then hit the building. So I'm running off the bridge. I'll never forget the sound, the flames, the searing heat as I was kind of running off the bridge, as the plane came in. And you could hear the engines spooled up, because if you remember, kind of like, obviously the terrorists are full throttle. And I remember looking in and seeing the people in the window, and I can't imagine their emotions and what they were going through in their final moments of life. So the explosion happens, I'm running off. I then run back into the bridge, go back into the building, really not thinking, and just like, you know, you're like, “How can I help?” So there's fire, there's smoke, and so we just start trying to get folks out and they start setting up kind of triage stations, both inside the courtyard, you know, at the Pentagon, and on the outside. So do that about 45 minutes, like, an hour helping out. And then enough people got me to kind of stabilize, you know, the situation. And so then, you know, I'm in the mission of finding my wife. So I was fortunate to kind of find her in the parking lot, you know. And obviously we have a moment. And it was interesting, because from her vantage point, she just was kind of blocked by the bridge. She saw the plane, and then they just saw the explosion and the fire, and so she thought I was dead. Naviere Walkewicz 6:03 I can't imagine how she was feeling at that moment. Dave Harden 6:06 So she takes Madison out. She's holding Madison, and she just starts bawling. She's like, “I just lost my husband,” right? And it's amazing, because Madison, who's, I guess, 2 years old, goes, “Mommy, it's OK. God will take care of the fire. God will put it out.” And the power of the words of a 2-year-old, kind of, in that moment, she's like, “All right,” you know, she took a deep breath, like, “Hey, I gotta get my act together.” We're able to get back kind of together, but we live like maybe an hour from the Pentagon. The car was there. We could take all these people, it's chaos, as you can imagine, it felt like a war zone that was just happening. And we get flooded with calls and, this was back — maybe not as much good telecommunications. We're flooded with calls and people. So because of all the adrenaline, everything that happened that day, we finally had a moment to break down, right? And we're just tearing up and crying and in that moment, just such a sense of gratitude for not only being alive, but for my family, for everything that kind of this nation represents, right? It's just a moment that kind of brought everybody together, and everyone has a 9/11 story. Everyone says, “Here I was, or there I was,” on 9/11. Naviere Walkewicz 7:30 After running across the bridge, like when you saw it coming, obviously you're like, “I need to not be in its path.” Can you remember what in you said, “Turn around and go back.” Was it just your background in the military? Like, “We don't run from we go help.” Can you remember? Dave Harden 7:50 It's hard to remember. I think it's instinct in the moment, you know? But I also think for listeners today — and today is about thinking through all those moments, and saying what are the muscle memories of running into the fire that gets you maybe more prepared for that moment?   Naviere Walkewicz 8:10 So you don't freeze.     Dave Harden 8:12 So you don't freeze. I think the Academy helps prepare you for those moments. What you go through — through hardships, and your personal hardships and childhood can help you through those moments, right? So many things make up someone's journey and the fabric of their lives, and who makes them themselves. And you don't always know if you'll have the courage in that moment. You don't always know if you'll have kind of what it takes. But I think, along the way, you can have a muscle memory that prepares you for that, right? And so, you know, might be something — you're overloaded with academics at the Academy, right? It could be you're having a personal crisis, you know, could be in your family. It could be external. It could be, literally, you're getting shot at, right? But I think it's kind of transforming the mentality, or a victim mentality, of, “I have to. This is a burden” to “I get to.” It's not saying, “I have to” anymore, It's saying, “You know what? I'm so thankful that I get to,” right? I get to solve this problem, right? “I get to — I'm lucky that I'm here at the Academy, and I have 25 credits, and I gotta take all these classes.” It's hard to think like that. You're like, “Oh, woe is me. This is such a burden. Oh, this is problem at work. Oh, someone died in the family, there's a crisis.” You have cancer, right? Think about all the things that impact our lives, that are hard. And if we're able to say, “You know what…” Start that muscle memory like, “You know what, I get to overcome this, I'm going to learn a lot going through this hardship, through these tough times. It's going to make me different. It's going to make me stronger. It gives me that instinct and that character.” And when you have enough of those muscle memories, then I think what happens in the moment is you're ready.   Naviere Walkewicz 10:04 Yeah, you act. Dave Harden 10:05 You act.   Naviere Walkewicz 10:06 Did you develop that as a child — that muscle memory, you think? Or what was that like for you then? Dave Harden 10:19 So I was very fortunate. I'll preface this with: I have a family that adopted me, but my early childhood was not a silver spoon. A lot of people look at my life today and they say, “Oh, you were given something. It was easy.” A lot of people feel like that, you know, someone made money. They got inheritance from the family. You know, all those things.   Naviere Walkewicz 10:39 Right. The easy way, right? The easy button. Dave Harden 10:41 The easy road. Easy street.     Naviere Walkewicz 10:43 Yes, you push the button, and it was… yeah. Dave Harden 10:44 So I would say that there was no yellow brick road to this path. And so I was actually born in Avignon, France. And so my birth father was French, my birth mother was American. I don't speak a lick of French, so that's a side note. And so I wind up born a U.S. citizen. Come back to the U.S. when I was 2 — they split up. And, you know, unfortunately, my birth mother just wasn't well and wasn't able to love me, maybe you think like a traditional family. So I suffered extreme abuse as a child, and so much so that the state had to come in at 6 years old and take me away. My original foster parents told me, you know, I think I knew 12 letters of the alphabet at that time because I wasn't going to school; I wasn't doing the things that most kids kind of get to do. If you look at the history of what I went through in the beginnings of my life, normally, that doesn't lead to success. So a lot of people over the years have asked me, “Dave, what was the difference? How'd you come out of that differently?” And you don't always know in the moment, right? You think about it, you reflect all the things that came through. And for me, as I reflect, there's an unyielding faith in God. And I think, as I reflect — some people call it the universe, and I want to be respectful about how people view the energy that we get to experience and the faith that we have. But for me, what I figured out is, I was able to look up when all hell is breaking loose, when your life seems like it's in shambles, when things are going wrong, how do you have a glimmer of hope?   Naviere Walkewicz 12:54 You look up.   Dave Harden 12:55 You look up, right? And what does that mean? Looking up changes your gratitude, your centeredness, and it shifts from a “why me” conversation — “Why is all of this happening to me?” Right? “I'm a bad person. I fail. Things are going wrong. Things are blowing up. Someone just died. I'm getting shot at. I have too much academics. I just lost someone close to me in my life.” But if you can go from like, “Why me?” to “What if? What if things get better?” Naviere Walkewicz 13:45 How did you do that as a young boy? I mean, I'm thinking, you know, 9 years old, you know, you're still learning about yourself. You had maybe a foster family that showed you and displayed maybe some love. Is that where you learned to look up, or was it just something in you, and that was just the way that — I know you said faith. Dave Harden 14:03 Yeah, I think it's both. I've had deep analysis on nurture versus nature and I think it's a little bit of both. My foster parents went on to adopt me, and they come from a Depression, kind of post generation, right? And so I think what they were able to give me is enough structure and safety to become the person who I could become. And I think you need that safety and structure to start with, and then I could learn the things about gratitude and self-esteem and love, right? And those were innate with me. Each of us have this creative being, and we want to see it become alive. But if it gets squashed, If we don't believe in ourselves, if we don't look up, then we're just confronted with all the stuff in front of us. All the crap, all the fire, all the burning in our lives, in our businesses and in our workplaces. And I think going through that experience helped me learn to transform that thinking so that we look up and we look beyond. Naviere Walkewicz 15:23 When I'm looking at you right now, you know how, as we age, we have like lifelines on our face? And when I think about people who tend to look down, their face kind of shows it. But what I see in you when I look across right now are the lines that show that you have looked up. I see when you smile, it is so like, etched in your face, like in a way that is like joy. And I really do think you live that way. How do you share that gratitude and what has been innate in you that's been ignited with others? How have you helped others find that, whether while you're a cadet or in business, etc.? Dave Harden 15:57 Yeah, that's a great question. Everyone says I have about 300% more energy than most people.   Naviere Walkewicz 16:02 I know, I'm trying to hang. I'm trying to keep up with you here!   Dave Harden 16:06 I think that's one way, right, is again, you'll hear me say it over and over again. It's gratitude. Do you wake up in the morning and say, “Hey, what are the three things that I'm just freaking thankful for?” Because it's so easy — you listen to news, it's heavy. It's just, everything's heavy, right? And so I think living a life of gratitude transforms everyone's life and allows you to be a different person, allows you to create those muscle memories that allows you to do something. It's interesting — I get asked a lot of questions, especially having kind of this, you know, successful investment and business career, having flown C-17s, having done AFWERX — I think maybe we'll kind of dive in that a little bit. I've had all these eclectic kind of backgrounds and experiences, and they're like, you know, “How'd that happen? How'd you go from this to this, to this, to this?” And, you know, it's interesting. I think it just winds up, you know, running towards the problem. And I've had people say that over and over again: “You're just a person that, man, I just feel like, you know, you'll always run to the fire.” And so, I think when you do that over and over and over again, then it just transforms the way you think. You're willing to overcome, and hey, “I'll take on this bureaucracy. I'll take on the Air Force and transform it.   Naviere Walkewicz 17:26 Is that where Big D came from? Dave Harden 17:28 It is. So are we gonna have a side shuffle here? Alright. We'll have a side shuffle. As you know, we can dive into it more. I had this opportunity, because of the business background and all these — right moment, right place, right time, had the great honor of being able to build from the ground up with a bunch of other amazing, talented people, what's now known as AFWERX. And that wound up being the anchor innovation arm for the Air Force to bring in new technology and transform the way we're doing business as a service. So that was amazing. We did a shark tank called Spark Tank at Mark Cuban, George Steinbrenner in there. Transform the culture, identify innovation superheroes, is what we call it.   Naviere Walkewicz 18:19 I love that.   Dave Harden 18:20 So, where's your cape? Where are you innovating? How can we go make that happen quicker? And that's what we were able to do. But it was funny when we kind of started, you know, I was like, 30 days — they wanted to facilitate all the four-star generals in the Air Force in this, like, 30-year planning. So I was only supposed to be at the Pentagon for 30 days…   Naviere Walkewicz 18:40 And you're a reservist during this, right?   Dave Harden 18:42 I'm a reservist during that time — lieutenant colonel reservist.  And so I wound up… this turns into four years now of my life. I get sucked back into the five-sided building, which was a great honor. But as you know, it's a lot of like, you know, cyber locks and behind-closed-doors kind of stuff at the Pentagon. Everyone goes to their little room and cubicle, and that's where your magical work happens. So here's this business guy who happens — I liked to wear flight suits as much as I can. Every once in a while they make me wear blues in the Pentagon. So, walking around the five-sided building. Well, as you can imagine, cell phone service is not the best at the Pentagon. So, you can imagine, I'm trying to connect businesses. I'm trying to think about different ways to do stuff, right? So that's not sitting at my desk working on the NIPRNet. Naviere Walkewicz 19:38 There's no magic happening from your seat in the cubicle. Dave Harden 19:40 So, I'm wandering around the halls, and I have to, like, triangulate — “Where the hell am I going to get a cell phone signal?” Might be the courtyard. I've got my hand in the air. If I put aluminum foil on this, you know, the little longer thing. There's one window by the second corridor, you know? So anyhow, that's the exercise. So literally, for like, six months, every month, without fail, someone's pulling me into their office because I'm not following protocol. Naviere Walkewicz 20:14 Oh my goodness. You're like, “Do you know what I'm standing up?” Dave Harden 20:16 Didn't care. They didn't care. They're like, “You're screwing off. You're doing other stuff. You're doing outside business. You're always in the hall. You're never at your office.” You know, “Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah,” right? So I just got read the riot act. “Terrible officer not doing the things you're supposed to be doing.” A maverick. So anyhow, eventually all these big things started happening. We're transforming the way the Air Force Association…   Naviere Walkewicz 20:49 The light goes bing.   Dave Harden 20:51 Right. And, like, these new capabilities, and I'm like, actually connecting people, like, I pull people by their office and say, “You need to walk down to this other corridor. Meet this person.” Because this is the connection we need to get stuff done. Now we're just running around the halls of the Pentagon, either on the phone or shuffling people around, and eventually they're like, “Oh, wow. This is making a difference. Things are happening. And so in that process, I got the call sign Big D, which, on this podcast, could be funny. So we'll keep it PG-13 here on this network. But you know, it was for the deal making. So it's like they knew that big deals were gonna get done with Big D because I was gonna be on the phone, come hell or high water, I was gonna be in the halls of the Pentagon making it happen. Because it was too important. It was too important to get technology quicker out that people needed.   Naviere Walkewicz 21:54 Why did you feel that way? Dave Harden 21:55 So many transformative things kind of in my life come back to service. So I remember, I was actually flying in Afghanistan, C-17. I'm sure you know. Afghanistan is a big bowl, so you gotta get over the 24,000-foot mountains, dive in really quickly. And so at the time we would do that with night vision goggles. You try to find a couple little infrared lights in the basin somewhere, coming down really quick and hoping you find them and you're landing in the right spot. And so, pretty intense environment, as you can imagine. And a lot of threats coming in and coming out. So triple-A. Folks, you know, with Toyota pickup trucks with missiles on the back, launching off the shoulders. And so, leaving out of that bowl, we wound up being a target, like sometimes you are. But on this day, as we were kind of turning out, we have kind of a missile warning system that's in the middle and so it starts going off and kinda tells where, in general, it's coming from. But basically, you know maybe it's a false alert, but more than likely not, it's something's coming at you. So what happens next is kind of like super-slow motion, like you're watching a movie, and so it's like, Fourth of July. Because you have a bunch of systems on the plane, so you have flares, and so it's like, boom. So now it's super bright, and you're taking the actions you need and have kind of been trained to do. But there's some additional systems on there. So they have added basically a laser system, and the laser system is trying to find the warhead, mess up the guidance system, because it's looking for your engines, it wants the heat on the engines. So this is all going on but it happens really quick, but it happens really slow when you're in the moment. And so I just remember when it happened, it's super quiet on the flight deck. Because you have load master, you have another pilot, you have the crew. Essentially, you have three seconds between knowing whether you're alive or you're dead. And so you can imagine the moment when all this stuff goes off, and in the back of my mind, it's essentially a three-Mississippi count. So you go “one Mississippi, two Mississippi, three Mississippi,” and you're either alive or you're dead. So that quiet moment in between is quite the reflection of life. I'm here with you today, so obviously all the stuff that was supposed to work, worked. And in the reflection of that moment, that technology, which was developed years before, saved my life. And yet, we were stuck and faced a bureaucracy that took five years, 10 years to get technology to the front that had bloated requirements and just outdated acquisition processes. And so I was motivated to say, “We have to do something different to get that technology to the front line, to save lives and the work that people do every day to transform the way they get to do business.” And so that's always been the driving force. It's been my driving force to this day, was that that technology to our nation quicker must be accomplished, and the way you do that is you identify the innovation superheroes inside our service and in our businesses and in our entrepreneurs that can be brought together to bring about that change. Naviere Walkewicz 26:04 So that's really incredible how a moment in time literally had set the stage for your passion. You were leading AFWERX, you got it across the line, and amazing technology has been made available to our warfighters, to our processes. Why did you then — or maybe it's on a grander scale — move into the private sector, where you're actually doing this, still with the same kind of vision of what you're trying to accomplish, but without maybe some of the red tape? Why did you move on from AFWERX? Dave Harden 26:38 That's a great question. So I love this because I love the concept of the airman citizen. I think it's really important, because I went to pilot training. So in pilot training, we're all competing, like, you know, “You gotta be No. 1. You get the plane you want.” You know, all this stuff. A lot of ego flying around, right? And then there's this group, and they were, like, kind of little bit older. Like, “Oh, I'm in this Guard unit, and as soon as we finish pilot training, I'm gonna fly a C-130. I'm gonna fly this...” They already knew what they were gonna fly. I'm like, “How the hell?” I didn't know about the Guard and Reserve. I knew nothing about it, right?   Naviere Walkewicz 27:20 Wow OK. That's true. Many people don't know…   Dave Harden 27:22 Already in service, right? And it was this amazing discovery. One, they became, like, my best friends. I'm like, these are really cool people. But it was the beginning of this journey. It was like an enlightenment of this airman citizen, like I could still serve our country, right? And so I did wind up going into the Reserve, flying out Charleston, South Carolina, flying C-17s while I did business. So I was able to grow all the stuff I did in business and consult the oil industry and write books and speak around the world and run tech companies while still serving and contributing to the nation. And so I just wound up with a unique skill set — kind of business and military and bringing that all together at a moment in time at the Pentagon. And so that all came together and it was a natural extension. And then say, “OK, we've built this kind of ecosystem. How do we now go on the outside and help cut through the red tape? How do we bring capital. How do we identify the entrepreneurs and take this amazing land and amazing minds that we have and turn them towards our nation's most challenging problems and run towards the fire?” That the nation needs to survive for our children, our grandchildren and the democracy that we hold dear. And so I was grateful for each of those chapters, right? I was grateful for the chapter to build something; I'm grateful for the chapter now in the business world to make a difference. And I see that manifest in different ways. You and I earlier, we're kind of talking a little bit — on the business end there's hardships, there's difficulties, there's fires. And you hear that phrase all the time: “All we do is put out fires all day.” So that's a little bit different context. But sometimes there's bigger fires, you know. I remember we were faced — we lost a $9 million contract. And its people's lives, you know? There are single moms that work for you, and there's, you know, people that you've been loyal to the company for a long time. And sometimes just businesses don't become feasible. So you have a big fire. The landscape transforms. COVID hits. The timing just changes and is off. And so we sat in that moment, and it's emotional, because you're like, “I gotta let 25% of the company off. It's gonna impact families. It's gonna impact lives. And I remember this day, part of our culture was being grateful, being thankful. And you lose track of that because the budget, make payroll, all the all these business things, you know? How's this gonna look? The ego here, right? All these emotions come in, and then taking that moment to take a pause, to look up, to realign, to give thanks, and then to lean into that fire. I remember we kind of gathered up, and I said, “You know what? This is gonna be hard, and people gonna be let go. Can we take a moment just to — there's so many people in here that have stepped up last minute, made things happen, been a part of your life.” And that next hour where people just sat around the table and said, “You know what? John did this for me. Lori did this for me. Man, you know, they stayed up all night and kind of got this proposal done.” Someone's like, “Oh, I needed a surgery and my doctor sucked. They were personally there for me and helped me with that.” It was an hour of gratitude that even in the despair, even in the business environment of having let people go, there was a sense of like culture and gratitude and awareness that doesn't make it easier — you know, you lose your job. It doesn't make some of the fires easier to put out, but we leaned into the fire in a way that helped us get through it from a business perspective. And I always remember that moment, because it really… we just took that step back and it transformed the entire conversation. And so for listeners out there: I say whatever you're going through, you have that same opportunity to take a step back, to have that moment of gratitude, pause and then lean in like hell. Solve that problem. You have an opportunity to really solve what's in front of you, to run into the fire. It might be drastic like 9/11. Like, we're saving somebody's life. But it might be something smaller, but equally as meaningful. Naviere Walkewicz 32:42 I'd like to ask you something because based off of something you said earlier, and I think it was this whole concept of gratitude and having gone through, many hardships in your childhood, in business, etc. How have you been able to stay— and maybe humble is not the right word — but you seem really rooted. It's not about position or title. You seem just really rooted in a humanity and caring about people. Am I right in seeing that? And how do you do that? Dave Harden 33:12 Well, thanks for feeling that energy and then responding to it and asking me that question. At the end of day, it's about relationships and connections. And you're right. That comes from early childhood, right? When you have the experiences that you had, for me, I knew more than anything, that family was important for me. In fact, that was part of my decision, like at the Naval Academy, because it's like, I think I like my time at Naval Academy. I don't know if the Navy would just be a higher negative impact on family.   Naviere Walkewicz 33:43 Because you'd be underway for months. Dave Harden 33:45 Right. For a year, or whatever. So I think, imagine making that decision at 17. Because that thought was always there. I think Angie is swinging by for the 30th reunion here at the studio here in a little bit. So I have a beautiful red-headed wife that we've gone through ups and downs, gone through challenges, right? But here we sit at 30 years…    Naviere Walkewicz 34:13 Congratulations, that's amazing.   Dave Harden 34:14 Yes, thank you so much. It's an inspiration for me, right? Because her parents got married at the Cadet Chapel. A little tie back here to the Air Force Academy. We got married three days after graduation. So, you know, I don't know. Maybe that's cliche, but maybe it's kind of a need and a legacy thing which I lean towards, right? And so my kids inspire me every day. You know my wife inspires me every day. Meeting you and the connections and relationships that I get to get across business, across being in the trenches, being in those fires, forge the relationships, that go across boundaries. And too often times things are transactional. It's like, “Hey, I'm in this position,” and then you have their phone number and their email, and then they change positions, and you never hear from them again. And that's not what life is about. That's not the richness of life. That's not how you inspire people. You inspire people by connecting with them and being thankful for them, right? And so that inspiration comes from my childhood, from seeing death firsthand, from losing people in my life and being able to say, “You know what, if we can transform, if we can pause, if we can look up, right, and see the faith and the ‘what if' and not say, ‘Why is this happening to me? But what can I do with it? What can I do for others? How can I connect in a meaningful way?' you will transform your life, you'll transform your leadership, and you'll transform the people around you, because they'll be inspired to be superheroes in their own right. Naviere Walkewicz 36:03 Well, I certainly believe I could probably foreshadow what you might say in this next one. But I want to ask you this because, you know, there's something about putting into practice what you say, and obviously it has served you well in all facets of your career. What are you doing every day, Dave, to be better, whether it's in leadership, it's in relationships, but what are you doing personally every day to be better? Dave Harden 36:29 You know, I think I have a core philosophy. And you might have heard it before. Can I get better by 1% today? So if you wake up in the morning and you're like, “Can I get better by 1% today?” What does that mean? How do I do that? And I think it starts at the beginning of the day by saying… It's easy to be like, “Oh, I'm running late. My alarm went off. I'm tired. I gotta do laundry. I gotta get this job. I gotta get the kids. You gotta… Stack it up and you're like… You can be overwhelmed. The news. You know, something just happened. Within the first 30 minutes, you're overwhelmed for your day. Your day's done. Naviere Walkewicz 37:16 Right. Go back to bed. Try again. Dave Harden 37:18 It sucks. Why me? Fires are burning all around me. Naviere Walkewicz 37:20 Where do I go? Right. Dave Harden 37:23 So even if you just take a couple minutes and you're just like, “What are the three things that I'm thankful for today?” it recenters your gratitude journey, right? And then throughout the day, I call it the gratitude debrief. And if you're familiar with anything that's like fighter pilots after your mission— what did we learn? And, you know, getting after that, but a lot of people don't have a gratitude debrief. And what I described for you in that business crisis, what I described for you sitting there with your family after — my family after 9/11, it was a gratitude debrief. What went right today? Who did I appreciate that I need to thank? I guarantee if you come at it from that perspective, you're going to see more opportunity. People are going to want to do business with you, because you're the type of person that is grateful, and they want to reach out, they want to network for they want to do that one other thing, right? And when you're in that mental space, when bad things are happening and fires are burning around you, you won't even think for a second “I need to help somebody. I need to do the thing.” And at that moment when it becomes instantaneous, when it's the thing you just do, you know you're centered in that place of gratitude. Naviere Walkewicz 38:55 So Dave, thank you for sharing that — what you're doing every day? What about what some of our listeners, no matter where in their journey they are… You know, we talked about the pause, look up. But what can they be doing every day to be better? Dave Harden 39:08 I think you get back to what we were talking about earlier, which was kind of that stepping into the fire, that leaning in. And I think you know what I've learned, and at the end of the day, what our listeners can take away is, at the end of the day, courage is a choice. I think courage is actually a choice, because you're building all these… I gave you some tools, muscles, and you just don't know what's going to happen in that moment in time. But in that moment in time — there's a great book that I just thought of. It was called Moments of Truth. It's a great book, and it talks a little bit about your brand, your business brand, and it's really built with all these little moments of truth, right? Because it could be your interaction. It could be we came out on the airline today for the 30th reunion So, how did that customer in a certain, you know, interaction? Did they solve my problem? Did they lean in? Did they take care of me? And each of those moments of truth add up to a brand. You, the listeners, have to decide what's their brand going to be. Is it going to be running towards the fire or running away from fires? So whether it's a real fire or proverbial fire, you're going to be ready for that moment. At the end of the day, that's what we believe. Your hardships in life, your Academy experience, your service, your business life, if done correctly, prepare you for and allow you to lead others through. Naviere Walkewicz 40:54 This time together has been… it's inspiring me. I mean, I have just felt the energy and I felt your hardship and how you continue, how you put into practice, your pause, your look up, you know, be grateful. And I want to tell you I'm grateful for you in this time we've had today, because it's been… it really has made a difference, and I'm looking forward to debriefing tonight when I fly home with my son about what went right today. So thank you for that. I think that's really useful.   Dave Harden 41:18 Awesome. Thank you so much. Yes, I appreciate it.   Naviere Walkewicz 41:20 Absolutely. Well, as our conversation with Dave Harden comes to a close, I'm reminded that leadership is often forged in the fire. Dave's journey from the Pentagon on 9/11 to overcoming adversity in his childhood to pioneering innovation in some of the toughest environments reminds us that true leaders don't run away from the fire. They run toward it. Dave's story reminds us that hardship is inevitable, but gratitude transforms hardship into fuel when you meet your next fire, literally or figuratively. Pause, look up, give thanks and step forward. We know that's how leaders grow in the Long Blue Line, and how you become the kind of person others want to follow anywhere. Thank you for joining us on this episode of Long Blue Leadership. I'm Naviere Walkewicz, Class of '99. Until next time.   KEYWORDS Leadership, 9/11, gratitude, innovation, Air Force, personal growth, adversity, private sector, courage, resilience.       The Long Blue Line Podcast Network is presented by the U.S. Air Force Academy Association & Foundation    

Hugh discusses the Israel-Gaza ceasefire deal, the continuing Schumer shutdown, Charlie Kirk receiving the Medal of Freedom, and talks with David Drucker and Adm. Mark Montgomery (USN, Ret.).See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

What does real leadership look like when lives are on the line?In this episode of Spartan Leadership, Josh Kosnick sits down with Colonel Mike Murphy (U.S. Army, Ret.), a combat-tested commander who led hundreds of missions in Iraq — and brought every soldier home.Colonel Murphy shares hard-earned lessons on staying calm under pressure, leading with accountability, and earning trust through humility and courage. This is what leadership looks like when the stakes couldn't be higher — and why those same principles matter just as much in business, family, and life.

Joe Piscopo is broadcasting from Columbus Citizens Foundation in celebration of Columbus Day. 00:37- Michael Sapriacone, Columbus Parade Chair Topic: Celebration in lieu of the parade, planning for next year's parade 8:44- Emergency Management Topic: Nor'easter and its impact on New Jersey 14:59- Assemblyman Dov Hikind, former New York State Assemblyman and the son of holocaust survivors Topic: Latest in the release of hostages 35:18- Chirstopher Loiacono, President of the Board of Columbus Citizens Foundation Topic: Celebrating Columbus Day 48:26- Carmen Damiani Hacker, Executive Director of Columbus Citizens Foundation 58:49- Joseph Moglia, Grand Marshall of the Columbus Citizens Foundation Columbus Day Parade Topic: Columbus Day 1:09:39- Angelo Vivolo, Former Chairman of the Board and current Board of Governors' member of the Columbus Citizens FoundationTopic: Columbus Day 1:24:26- Consul General Fabrizio DiMichele, Columbus Day Honoree Topic: Columbus Day 1:35:17- Nicole Parker, Special Agent with the FBI from 2010 through October 2022 and a Fox News contributor Topic: At least 4 killed and 16 injured in St. Helena Island, SC shooting 1:47:21- Daniel Hoffman, Ret. CIA Senior Clandestine Services Officer and a Fox News ContributorTopic: Israel-Hamas peace deal and the possibility of a Russia-Ukraine negotiation 2:01:24- Christina Farrell, First Deputy Commissioner of the NYC Office of Emergency Management Topic: Nor'easter response 2:05:10- John Catsimatidis, John is Chairman & CEO of the Red Apple Group, host of "Cats & Cosby" (Monday-Friday 5-6 p.m.) and "The Cats Roundtable" (Sunday 8-10 a.m.) on AM 970 The Answer, and the author of "How Far Do You Want to Go?: Lessons from a Common-Sense Billionaire" Topic: Columbus Day HonoreeSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Trump is openly pushing to use American cities as “training grounds” for the military and targeting “the enemy within.” Ret. Lt. Gen. Mark Hertling joins Asha and Renato to break down the unprecedented meeting with top military brass - and what it means for the country and democracy. Plus, the stunning indictment of former FBI Director Jim Comey, a dramatic escalation in Trump's campaign to weaponize the Justice Department against his enemies - and why it could ultimately backfire. Tune in! Cruise with us:https://www.travelstore.com/group-travel/its-complicated-cruise-2026/ Asha Substack: https://asharangappa.substack.com/Subscribe to our podcast: https://link.chtbl.com/its-complicatedFollow Asha on Bluesky: https://bsky.app/profile/asharangappa.bsky.socialFollow Renato on Bluesky: https://bsky.app/profile/renatomariotti.bsky.socialFollow Asha on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/asha.rangappa/Follow Renato on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/renato.mariotti/Subscribe: https://www.youtube.com/@LegalAFMTN?sub_confirmation=1 Legal AF Substack: https://substack.com/@legalaf Follow Legal AF on Bluesky: https://bsky.app/profile/legalafmtn.bsky.social Follow Michael Popok on Bluesky: https://bsky.app/profile/mspopok.bsky.social Subscribe to the Legal AF by MeidasTouch podcast here: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/legal-af-by-meidastouch/id1580828595 Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices