Podcasts about Cincinnati Christian University

Micah is a Seer Prophet, founder of Behold Wonder and the Pastor of Prophetic Ministry at Vineyard Church Northwest in Cincinnati, Ohio. He grew up in a very prophetic family where spending time with God was a normal part of homeschooling, and then continued his education at Cincinnati Christian University and International House of Prayer in Kansas City, Missouri (IHOPKC). Micah's mission is to encourage people to connect to the heart of God and his goal is to see friends of God encounter him in a real way so that his display of glory and power is recognized all across the earth. Micah's Resources: www.beholdwonder.com www.vineyardnorthwest.com   Join our Group Mentorship Program: ► Royal Hybrids Understand The Truth About Your Purpose: ► Watch My FREE Purpose= IAM Training   Book A Free Discovery Call with Me ► iamjosephwilson.com ✅ Subscribe to FUSE LIFE on YouTube Follow us on social media ✅  Facebook   +   Instagram ►Purchase my Bestselling book "The NO B.S. GUIDE TO THE ABUNDANT LIFE" on Amazon NOW!  

It's Tuesday, February 25th, A.D. 2025. This is The Worldview in 5 Minutes heard on 125 radio stations and at www.TheWorldview.com.  I'm Adam McManus. (Adam@TheWorldview.com) By Kevin Swanson Muslims beheaded 70 Christians in Congo The Islamic State of Central Africa Province, a terrorist group, is reported to have killed 107 Christians between mid-October 2024 and early January 2025 in the Democratic Republic of the Congo.   In fact, more than 5,000 Christians have been killed by this Muslim terrorist group since October of 2017, according to figures recorded by the Terrorism Research and Analysis Consortium.   This just in.  International Christian Concern reports that the Islamic State of Central Africa Province, formerly known as Allied Democratic Forces, is thought to be responsible for the horrific massacre of 70 Christians by beheading in Congo's eastern Lubero Territory near the country's border with Uganda and Rwanda last week. Pray for the Congo. It's the 35th most dangerous country worldwide for Christians, according to Open Doors. God transformed Central Asian prison with Bible In their March/April Magazine, Barnabas Aid included an article entitled ”God's Word Unchained.” (page 13) It tells the story of a Christian woman who was released from prison in Central Asia after serving four years.  The unnamed Christian was able to smuggle a Bible into the prison. When administrators confronted her, she told them, “The Bible is God's Word and shows you the way for eternal life.” Four days later, the official came into the cell and told her, “You must read the book -- all of you.” Pointing to the woman, the official said, “Let her teach you all and you must listen to her!” The Christian prisoner reported that she “started to read the Bible for everyone. Many women asked me to give them the Bible, so they could read it personally. … We read the Bible aloud during the day, and some women read it in the night. The cell in which discord, slander, and enmity reigned turned into a quiet place. Women became friendly with each other.”   The sister recounted how women were healed from sickness by prayer. and even the prison staff began to request prayer for themselves and their sick relatives. She was released from prison recently, after having served four years and one month of her ten-year sentence. In Isaiah 55:11, God makes a promise about His Word: “My Word that goes out from My mouth; it shall not return to Me empty, but it shall accomplish that which I purpose, and shall succeed in the thing for which I sent it.” German voters move right The German elections over the weekend produced one more political shake-up for Europe.   The far left gained only four percent, while the right gained 14%, reports the Associated Press. America refused to blame Russia for invasion of Ukraine On Monday, the United States parted with European countries in an important United Nations vote.  The United States refused to blame Russia for its invasion of Ukraine in votes on three U.N. resolutions Monday which sought an end to the three-year war. The resolution, which passed 93-18, called for the immediate withdrawal of Russian troops and referred to Moscow's aggression as a violation of the United Nations Charter.  America voted with Russia and 16 other countries. J.D. Vance affirmed young men at CPAC Last Friday, Vice President J.D. Vance had a word for young men at the Conservative Political Action Conference held in National Harbor, Maryland. VANCE: He told the group that “our culture sends a message to young men that you should suppress every masculine urge.” He also spoke to the cultural zeitgeist. VANCE: “Wants to turn everybody, whether male or female, into androgynous idiots who think the same, talk the same and act the same. We actually think God made male and female for a purpose. We want you guys to thrive as young men and as young women, (applause) and we're going to help with our public policies to make it possible to do that.” Gallup: 9.3% of Americans now identify as homosexual or transgender The prevalence of homosexuality in the United States increased by 22% in just a single year.  That's according to a recent Gallup poll, revealing that now 9.3% of Americans identify on the sexually-perverted LGBTQ spectrum. That's also up from 3.5% in 2012.   Incredibly, 31% of young Gen Z women, and 12% of Gen Z men identify themselves with some form of sexual perversion that violates the laws of God. Romans 1:25-27 explains how they “worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator. … For this reason, God gave them up to vile passions. For even their women exchanged the natural use for what is against nature. Likewise, also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust for one another.” West Virginia might allow religious exemption for vaccines West Virginia's legislature is considering a religious exemption for vaccinations applying to children attending schools in the state. The state senate voted 20-12 to approve the measure on Friday. Only seven states provide for no religious exemption on vaccinations.  How God used a one-arm woman to triumph in softball Despite the fact that Katelyn Pavey was born with only one arm, she excelled in women's softball. Conceived by parents involved in a sinful affair who became Christians, they raised her in the church. Remarkably, Katelyn became an all-state player in high school and received a full-ride to Cincinnati Christian University. Her story is told in a new movie entitled “I Can.” MovieGuide, the Christian movie review site, wrote, “'I Can' has a strong Christian, moral worldview stressing God's grace and forgiveness. … Ultimately, ‘I Can' tells an uplifting, inspiring, heartfelt story that champions God's faithfulness to help people overcome problems. The movie has many Christian elements like church and prayer. Circumstances point Katelyn to faith in God when she hits rock bottom. [However], due to some mature themes like death, an affair and injury, MovieGuide advises caution for younger children.” “I Can” can be streamed for free and is available on DVD through a special link in our transcript today at www.TheWorldview.com.   Blue Ghost spacecraft reveals new video of moon And finally, another moon landing with a craft produced by a private company is scheduled for March 2nd. This comes on the heels of last year's Odysseus landing last February. Blue Ghost, also known as one of the Ghost Riders in the Sky, produced by Firefly, is circumnavigating the moon right now, sending back some pretty awesome video of God's creation.  Check it out through a special link in our transcript today at www.TheWorldview.com. In Psalm 8:3-4, David asked, “When I consider your heavens, the work of your fingers, the moon and the stars, which you have set in place, what is mankind that you are mindful of them, human beings that you care for them?” Close And that's The Worldview on this Tuesday, February 25th, in the year of our Lord 2025. Subscribe by Amazon Music or by iTunes or email to our unique Christian newscast at www.TheWorldview.com. Or get the Generations app through Google Play or The App Store. I'm Adam McManus (Adam@TheWorldview.com). Seize the day for Jesus Christ.

How can workplace Christians be better equipped to transform their communities for the gospel?   In this episode of the Lausanne Movement podcast, we hear from Chuck Proudfit, Founder and President of SKILLSOURCE about "At Work On Purpose," a citywide workplace ministry model that mobilises the Church at Work.  Chuck shares his journey from corporate America to a faith-based mission that empowers Christians to live out their beliefs in the workplace and mobilises them to make tangible impact in their communities.   Main Points: Integrating Faith and Work: The challenges and triumphs of expressing faith in a secular work environment. Purposeful Employment and Vocational Discipleship: Understanding God's design for work and equipping Christians to be faith-active in their jobs. Workplace Engagement and Impact: Building a community of believers and creating a transformative impact in the workplace. Advice for Aspiring Network Builders: Steps to start and grow a network of Christians in the workplace. Engaging Church Pastors: Strategies for pastors to better support and equip workplace leaders within their congregations. After listening, subscribe to our podcast, leave a review, and visit our website to join the movement of integrating faith and work. Share this episode with friends and colleagues to inspire them on their journey.   Links & Resources: At Work On Purpose - https://atworkonpurpose.org/  Agents of Flourishing by Amy Sherman - https://a.co/d/bET18G6 Biznistry: Transforming Lives Through Enterprise - https://a.co/d/h98A9wL  SKILLSOURCE - https://skillsource.com/    Guest Bio: Chuck Proudfit is the Founder and President of SKILLSOURCE®. With a rich corporate background from Procter & Gamble, Ernest & Julio Gallo Winery, and LensCrafters Corporation, Chuck brings extensive management experience. At Harvard University, he pioneered the undergraduate organisational development curriculum. Since its inception in 1995, SKILLSOURCE® has grown into a nationally recognized firm, known for its flexible, project-based talent assembly. The firm has earned numerous accolades, including a Torch Award for business ethics from the Better Business Bureau. Chuck serves on executive boards for Self Sustaining Enterprises, Nuway Foundation, and Good Cities. He co-founded NET (Neighbourhoods Embracing Transformation), is part of Transform Our World's Corporate Leadership Team, and is an Elder at Grace Chapel. He also teaches at the Great Oaks Institute and Cincinnati Christian University.   We'd love your feedback to help us to improve this podcast. Thank you!

What joy to have my friend Cassy on the show to talk about motherhood! We believe this conversation will encourage moms in any season. May you be reminded today that your role as mom is so valuable and we "see" you!   Cassy is a pastor's wife, a mom of three, and a children's ministry director. She and her family have been residents of Minnesota since May 2023, when the Lord launched them into full-time ministry at Lighthouse Christian Church, Rosemount, MN. That is when Cassy's career as a full-time SAHM began. As a graduate of Cincinnati Christian University and a former youth pastor, Cassy's passion is to make theology relevant and understandable for all ages so that Jesus gets the awe and wonder He deserves!   You can connect with Cassy on Facebook at https://www.facebook.com/cassy.emery.7?mibextid=LQQJ4dwith or email her (preferred method) at kids@lighthousemn.church.   You can learn more about Susan and her ministry, She Rises, at http://www.sherisesmn.org. Connect with Susan on Facebook and Instagram at Susan Vandenheuvel.

Wil & Ashley are on location in New Zealand, and this time we're talking to Miki & Randy Brooks!Miki & Randy have helped to plant new churches and restore existing churches all across New Zealand. Randy is the South Pacific Regional Director for New International. He works to organize church plants, mentor, coach and recruit new church planters for both New Zealand and Australia. Along with their involvement in church planting, the Brooks' are involved in day to day ministry in local churches in New Zealand.God has blessed them with 26 years of marriage. Together they have three sons, Noel, Ethan and Caleb.Randy grew up in Colorado Springs, and attended Security Christian Church (now Pikes Peak Christian Church). After working as a welder for four years, God led Him to make a big life change which eventually led to his graduation from Nebraska Christian College in 1995. Randy also attended seminary at Cincinnati Christian University where he graduated in 2003 with an MA in Practical Ministries, with a concentration in church planting.Miki was born in Worthington, Minnesota but grew up as a missionary kid in Johannesburg, South Africa. It was there that she first taught a Sunday School class at age 13. This sparked a passion inside of her for ministry and mission work. She studied ministry and early childhood development at Nebraska Christian College. Miki loves ministry and generally works in the areas of leading worship, speaking to groups, mentoring young ladies, and seeking out ways to encourage and love missionary kids. Music by: Irene & the SleepersLogo by: Jill EllisWebsite: menomissions.orgBB Website: https://www.brokenbanquetpodcast.comContact Us: brokenbanquetpodcast@gmail.comS

We're on location in Auckland, New Zealand, and we are stoked to introduce you to one of our favorite preachers!Reuben Munn is Senior Pastor of Shore Community Church and an Adjunct Lecturer in Practical Theology at Laidlaw College.He holds a degree in Communication Studies from AUT and a Postgraduate Diploma in Theology from Laidlaw College. He also holds a Master of Arts in Theology and a Master of Arts in New Testament Studies from Cincinnati Christian University.Reuben is particularly passionate about the ministry of preaching and the formation of emerging preachers who can clearly, faithfully and creatively expound the Word of God. He is committed to developing pastors and preachers who can equip people to dwell deeply in the biblical story and live this out in the complex realities of everyday life.Reuben spent two years as a public relations consultant before joining the staff of Shore Community Church. He has a thriving preaching ministry and his teaching has featured on Shine TV, Radio Rhema and Prime TV. Since 2014 Reuben has taught courses at Laidlaw College including Introduction to Preaching and Pastoral Leadership.Reuben is married to Anna and they have three boys. He enjoys reading, playing jazz piano and eating Burger Fuel.Learn more about Shore Community Church: https://www.shorecommunity.churchListen to Reuben's great sermons: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/shore-community-church-podcast/id1346871953Learn from Reuben about preaching: https://www.discipleship.nz/courses/preachingMusic by: Irene & the SleepersLogo by: Jill EllisWebsite: menomissions.orgBB Website: https://www.brokenbanquetpodcast.comContact Us: brokenbanquetpodcast@gmail.com

This episode is a bonus episode, brought to you in partnership with Nyoo ("New") Health. Nyoo hosts the "What's Nyoo!" series, with monthly events that bring together women and experts to have engaging, honest, and educational conversations about women's health, and this one is all about Pelvic Health. This event blew us away, and we knew we had to share it. Special thanks to Priya Bathija - CEO of Nyoo - for allowing us to share this recording. We hope you enjoy it just as much as we did!Remember to like, rate and subscribe and enjoy the episode!Guest biosPriya Bathija is a nationally-recognized healthcare leader, attorney, and policy expert. She is currently Founder and CEO of Nyoo Health, an organization dedicated to improving health and healthcare for women. Previously, she was at the American Hospital Association where she led policy efforts and strategic initiatives on value, health equity and maternal health. She started her career as a healthcare attorney and served as in-house counsel and a member of the leadership teams at ProMedica and MedStar Health. Priya is also a Distinguished Practitioner in Residence at The Ohio State University Moritz College of Law and an adjunct professor at Loyola University Chicago School of Law. In addition, she serves as a public board member for the American Board of Medical Specialties, the largest physician-led specialty certification organization in the U.S.Carine Carmy is CEO and Co-Founder at Origin, the leading provider of pelvic floor and women's physical therapy. She has focused her career on increasing access to products and services that improve lives, from healthcare to 3D printing. Carine's passion for women's health started in her twenties, when she struggled with painful sex for nearly a decade.  Following years of misdiagnoses, ineffective treatment options, and hearing “that's just the way it is,” Carine discovered the power of pelvic floor physical therapy to treat, not only pelvic pain, but dozens of conditions and symptoms that impact some 40 million U.S. women and individuals with vaginal anatomy, every year. Already a go-to-market leader in healthcare and technology — with leadership roles at Amino, Shapeways, MarketspaceNext and Monitor Group — she felt compelled to help make pelvic health the norm for women across the country. Outside of Origin, Carine is an avid writer and has been published in MIT Technology Review, Forbes, Ad Age, and PSFK, and serves as an advisor to startups and nonprofits in support of diversity and economic equality.Dr. Somi Javaid is a board-certified OB/GYN, leading women's sexual health thought leader, and menopause advocate. She is the Founder and Chief Medical Officer of HerMD, a team on a mission to make women's healthcare exceptional by educating, advocating for, and empowering patients to take control of their health concerns. Dr. Javaid has been featured in Forbes, Vogue, Well+Good, InStyle, Parents, Refinery29, Mashable, Adweek, and Popsugar. In August 2020 Dr. Javaid spoke about Gender Bias and the Female Sexual Health Revolution on the TEDx mainstage, and in January 2021 she was featured in Women on Topp for her work as a trailblazer and pioneer in women's sexual health.Dr. Rachel Rubin is a board-certified urologist and sexual medicine specialist. She is an assistant clinical professor of Urology at Georgetown University and owns her private practice in the Washington DC region. She is one of only a handful of physicians fellowship trained in male and female sexual medicine. Dr. Rubin is a clinician, researcher, and vocal educator in the field of sexual medicine. In addition to being education chair for the International Society for the Study of Women's Sexual Health (ISSWSH), she also serves as an Associate Editor for the Journal Sexual Medicine Reviews. Her work has been featured in the NYT and PBS.Emma Schmidt, PhD, is a doctor in Clinical Sexology, a Professional Clinical Counselor, Supervisor, and Certified Sex Therapist, Supervisor through the American Association for Sex Educators Counselors and Therapists (AASECT) as well as the American Board for Christian Sex Therapists (ABCST). She is the owner of Emma Schmidt and Associates in Cincinnati, Indian and Kentucky, a therapy group practice which focuses on sex and relationship therapy. Dr. Schmidt received her Bachelor of Arts in Biblical Studies and Psychology as well as a Master of Arts in Counseling from Cincinnati Christian University. She received her Doctorate from Modern Sex Therapy Institutes. Her research and publications have focused on female sexual pain.Organization bioNyoo Health provides strategic and advisory support to startups, investors, providers, and others as they grow and scale new ways of delivering health and healthcare to women. Beyond that, Nyoo Health is building a movement that will redefine women's health and investing in women as they advocate for themselves in the healthcare system.FemTech Focus Podcast bioThe FemTech Focus Podcast is brought to you by FemHealth Insights, the leader in Women's Health market research and consulting. In this show, Dr. Brittany Barreto hosts meaningfully provocative conversations that bring FemTech experts - including doctors, scientists, inventors, and founders - on air to talk about the innovative technology, services, and products (collectively known as FemTech) that are improving women's health and wellness. Though many leaders in FemTech are women, this podcast is not specifically about female founders, nor is it geared toward a specifically female audience. The podcast gives our host, Dr. Brittany Barreto, and guests an engaging, friendly environment to learn about the past, present, and future of women's health and wellness.FemHealth Insights bioLed by a team of analysts and advisors who specialize in female health, FemHealth Insights is a female health-specific market research and analysis firm, offering businesses in diverse industries unparalleled access to the comprehensive data and insights needed to illuminate areas of untapped potential in the nuanced women's health market.Episode ContributorsPriya BathijaLinkedIn: @Priya Bathija Carine CarmyLinkedIn: @Carine Carmy & @OriginInstagram: @carinerachelle & @theoriginway Dr. Somi JavaidLinkedIn: Somi Javaid, MD & HerMDInstagram: @somijavaidmd & @hermdhealth Dr. Rachel RubinLinkedIn: @Rachel RubinInstagram: @drrachelrubin Dr. Emma SchmidtLinkedIn: @Dr. Emma SchmidtInstagram: @heyemmatherapy Nyoo HealthWebsite: https://www.nyoohealth.com/LinkedIn: @Nyoo HealthInstagram: @nyoohealth  Dr. Brittany BarretoLinkedIn:  @Brittany Barreto, Ph.D.Twitter: @DrBrittBInstagram: @drbrittanybarreto FemTech Focus PodcastWebsite: https://femtechfocus.org/LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/femtechfocusTwitter: @FemTech_FocusInstagram: @femtechfocus FemHealth InsightsWebsite: https://www.femhealthinsights.com/LinkedIn: @FemHealth Insights

Guest Bios Show Transcript In 2020, Moriah Smothers thought her emotional and physical relationship with her pastor, Patrick Garcia, was an affair. She blamed herself and was ostracized by many in her church. Yet now, Moriah realizes she was the victim of adult clergy sexual abuse. And since Garcia has returned to preaching—and was recently featured in an article as a repentant and reformed pastor—Moriah is speaking out. In this exclusive podcast interview, Moriah and her husband, Jack, speak publicly for the first time since Patrick Garcia resigned from The Hills Church in Evansville, Indiana. At the time, Garcia confessed to engaging in an “inappropriate relationship, both physically and emotionally.” And he pledged to undergo a “season of restoration so that the root of my brokenness and dysfunction can be addressed.” Almost three years later, that season is apparently nearing a close. Garcia said recently that he's been able to determine what caused his crash. And, with the backing of mentoring pastor Bob Russell—pastor emeritus of one of the largest churches in the U.S.—Garcia is starting to minister again. This comes as a shock to Moriah, who says Garcia groomed and abused her, using his power as a pastor to keep her in a relationship she repeatedly tried to escape. And, in this podcast, Moriah and her husband, Jack, explain why they don't think Garcia should ever be allowed back into ministry. This podcast includes an interview with a pastor who served under Garcia at Crossroads Christian Church, where Garcia served until 2018, when he was fired. The Crossroads pastor says Garcia wasn't fired for mere “philosophical differences,” as previously announced, but for profound character issues. Also offering perspective is Jim Burgen, lead pastor of Flatirons Community Church in Colorado. Like Pastor Russell, Jim is a close friend and mentor for Garcia. Is Garcia a restored pastor, whose gifts shouldn't be withheld from the church? Or, is he a predator, who continues to deceive and manipulate, and shouldn't be allowed in ministry again? Multiple voices engage with these questions and provide understanding on adult clergy sexual abuse. Guests Dr. Moriah Smothers Dr. Moriah Smothers is an Associate Professor of Teacher Education and a former elementary special education teacher. She is also a survivor of adult clergy sexual abuse (ACSA). Dr. Jack Smothers is a Professor of Management and a secondary survivor. Their heart is to help other ACSA survivors find healing and community. They are passionate about educating church leaders to identify, prevent and respond to ACSA. They have two children and have been married for 15 years. You can connect with them at jackandmoriahsmothers@gmail.com. Show Transcript SPEAKERS JULIE ROYS, MORIAH SMOTHERS, JACK SMOTHERS, JIM BURGEN, PAUL LINGE JULIE ROYS  0:00 For a year, Moriah Smothers thought her emotional and physical relationship with her pastor Patrick Garcia was an affair. She blamed herself and was ostracized by many in her congregation. But Moriah says she now believes she was a victim of clergy sexual abuse. And now that Garcia is returning the ministry, she's speaking out in this exclusive podcast. Welcome to The Roys Report, a podcast dedicated to reporting the truth and restoring the church. I'm Julie Roys and joining me on this episode is Moriah Smothers and her husband Jack Smothers. Moriah has not spoken publicly since 2020 when Patrick Garcia resigned from the Hills Church in Evansville, Indiana. At that time, Garcia confessed to engaging in an “inappropriate relationship both physically and emotionally.” He added, no one is to blame for this repeated wicked behavior but me and he pledged to undergo a “season of restoration so that the root of my brokenness and dysfunction can be addressed.” Now almost three years later, that season is apparently nearing a close. In a Christian Post article last month, Garcia says he's been able to determine what caused his crash. And now with the help of mentoring Pastor Bob Russell, Pastor Emeritus of one of the largest churches in the country, Garcia is starting to minister again. He's also speaking out claiming the relationship he had with the other woman was an emotional affair, but the church forced him to say it was physical. He also claims the church didn't know how to handle his struggle with anxiety and depression, contributing to what happened. All this has come as a shock to Moriah, who says Garcia isn't telling the truth. She says Garcia groomed and abused her using his power as a pastor to keep her in a relationship she repeatedly tried to escape. She also says she's reached out to Russell and leaders at the Hills, trying to get them to acknowledge the abuse, but they've refused. On this podcast, you'll hear her story. You'll also hear from a pastor at Crossroads Christian Church, where Garcia served from 2016 to 2018. That's when he was fired for alleged philosophical differences. And you'll hear from a pastor who like Bob Russell, is a close friend and mentor for Garcia. You won't hear from Patrick Garcia. We reached out to him to hear his side of the story. He responded via email saying and I quote, “enough has been said about that part of my story. I'm in the season of accepting the Lord's forgiveness and moving on.” We'll get to this important podcast in a moment. But first, I'd like to thank the sponsors of this podcast, Judson University, and Marquardt of Barrington. If you're looking for a top ranked Christian University, providing a caring community and an excellent college experience, Judson University is for you. Judson is located on 90 acres just 40 miles west of Chicago in Elgin, Illinois. The school offers more than 60 majors, great leadership opportunities and strong financial aid. Plus you can take classes online as well as in person. Judson University is shaping lives that shaped the world. For more information, just go to JUDSONU.EDU. Also, if you're looking for a quality new or used car, I highly recommend my friends at Marquardt of Barrington. Marquardt is a Buick GMC dealership where you can expect honesty, integrity and transparency. That's because the owners there Dan and Kurt Marquardt are men of integrity. To check them out, just go to BUYACAR123.COM. Well, joining me now is Moriah Smothers, who is speaking publicly for the first time about what she claims was clergy sexual abuse by Patrick Garcia, former pastor of the Hills Church in Evansville, Indiana. Also joining her is her husband Jack Smothers, who has stood by Moriah throughout the turmoil and devastation of the past several years. So Jack, and Moriah, thank you so much for being willing to talk about what I know is just a really painful and difficult situation. MORIAH SMOTHERS  04:11 Thank you for having us Julie. JACK SMOTHERS  04:12 Thank you, Julie. JULIE ROYS  04:14 So as I mentioned in the open, Patrick Garcia resigned from the Hills Church in 2020, confessing to what the media called an affair. In the past three years you haven't said anything publicly about what happened. And now you are speaking publicly for the first time. So what led you to want to speak out now about this situation? MORIAH SMOTHERS  04:37 Julie, Jack and I have never wanted to, felt the need or the call to be public about any of this. Our heart was basically to disappear and heal up, figure out what happened, why it happened. And we have taken a few opportunities these past three years to for some educational reasons with some local church leaders, but really, we were very happy healing up in private on our own with some supporters as well. The reason that we're talking to you now is because of the Christian Post article that was recently released. We had no prior knowledge of that article, completely caught off guard by it. But after we both read it, we were deeply troubled by the fact that there was no mention of adult clergy sexual abuse in that write up. And even then I still didn't feel the need to say anything different than Patrick Garcia's story. But what really pushed us to reach out and say something and be public for the first time is I was so devastated and insulted for the survivor community, for other women that are your friends, and in a support group with now. I just felt the article was deeply disrespectful and tone death of everything happening in the evangelical church, between Ravi Zacharias and Hillsong, and the SBC, the Christian Post can do better and should do better. And so I felt like, I didn't want this opportunity. Jack didn't want this opportunity. But here it is. And we're really here to tell our story for survivors, and hopefully, for church leaders to know better and do better. JULIE ROYS  06:12 And so Leo Blair, who wrote that article. I know, Leo, he's a colleague, someone that I've talked to on numerous occasions, and has been helpful to me in stories. And he's done some excellent work. But in this case, sounds like he did not attempt to reach out to you, correct? MORIAH SMOTHERS  06:29 No, there was no attempt at all. Nobody involved in that story reached out to us or notified us at all. We were very surprised by it. JULIE ROYS  06:36 Okay. And I think he did reach out to the Hills' elders who did not respond to him. I guess they could have put him in touch with you. But that didn't happen. And I'm not sure that that was asked for even but a very regrettable situation. And so I'm glad that you're going to be able to tell your side of the story. Let's back up to when both of you met Patrick Garcia. As I understand, both of you were volunteers at Crossroads Christian Church in Evansville, Indiana. And that's where Patrick pastored from roughly 2016 to 2018. Would you describe your relationship with Patrick at the time? MORIAH SMOTHERS  07:16 Yeah, sure. Basically, Julie, there was no relationship. We started attending that church when Ken Idleman was pastoring it. We had a lot of respect for his preaching and teaching. And it would be classified technically, as a mega church; it was very large. We were serving and attending but the pastoral transition did happen while we were there, but there was no relationship of any sort. Our children are about the same age. So we might have walked past each other in a hallway but no kind of communication, no, no relationship of any sort, except he was the pastor. And that was it. JULIE ROYS  07:49 Okay, and I'm guessing you had impressions of him, though. He was your pastor. Jack, was there ever did you have any conversations with him at this point, or he was just the man up on stage/ JACK SMOTHERS  08:02 We had passing conversations. And I do remember, one time at Crossroads when Patrick was still a pastor there. I did say to Moriah, I have a bad feeling about him. I didn't have any evidence of anything, I just got a bad impression and asked her to keep her distance from it. That was the extent of our interactions. JULIE ROYS  08:23 So then, in 2020, Crossroads fired Patrick Garcia, and another Pastor Rick Kyle, over in this is what the statement said, at least initially was philosophical differences. That was the reason given. I've also spoken with Paul Linge who was and still is a pastor at Crossroads. And we'll get his take in a minute about what really was happening behind the scenes. But from your vantage point at the time, what did you think had happened and why Patrick Garcia was being fired by the church? 08:25 At that point in time, we were just congregation members very far removed from that inner circle with any sort of connection to Patrick or the elders. And I think that's an interesting question. It's something that churches should really consider deeply because for your average congregant, especially in a megachurch, that pastor, that teaching individual is going to be the person who your congregants feel more connected to. And we had a personal relationship, a friendship with another pastor by the name of Dave Bowersox, he was a friend. We love him and his family and he chose to resign from the church as a result of all that. And that, at the time, spoke volumes to us and we trusted him we trusted his friendship and I chose to side with them in moving to the Hills, which at that point in time, Patrick was not a part of, it had nothing to do with Patrick moving to the Hills. He didn't come on to staff  at the Hills until later on. But at that point in time, it was really because of our friendship with Dave. JULIE ROYS  10:04 Was there a narrative though? That was because I know that this cause major turmoil. In fact, it spawned, I know, an article in Christian Post back then, because I went back and read a lot of these articles. I wasn't aware of it at the time. I wasn't covering this sort of news, or I think my nose was probably in other stories at the time. But it sounds like it caused a lot of turmoil at Crossroads, several pastors resigned when Patrick was fired, there was a petition circulating. This was a major deal. And I'm guessing there had to have been trying to figure out which side is telling the truth, am I right? MORIAH SMOTHERS  10:40 Yeah, there was definitely it was highly contentious. The narrative I remember hearing, believing, understanding was that the elders wanted to lead in a more traditional way. And that the pastors that were being fired and or resigned and left wanted to be more progressive. And so there was truly what we believe the statement about philosophical differences in leadership. And again, at the time, we also believe that maybe Crossroads was wanting to be a bit more of a country club feel, then really reaching out to the needy, the vulnerable. So that was the narrative that was being put out there for people that were asking questions. That's what i remember. JACK SMOTHERS  11:22 You don't realize how gullible you are until after the fact until hindsight is available. But there was evidence that we could have looked into and chose not to, because of those connections and those relationships that we had those trusted relationships. And so those just exerted a profound influence over us. And then we regret that. JULIE ROYS  11:43 As I mentioned, I talked to Paul Linge, who currently oversees the counseling ministry there at Crossroads, but he served as executive pastor under Patrick Garcia. And this is what he told me about why Patrick was fired. PAUL LINGE  11:58 There were some fundamental character fissures in the makeup of his heart, his mind, his belief system, and those would leak out on a fairly regular basis. And while I never saw him act, to my knowledge, inappropriately toward a female, okay, that's too much that's inappropriate, that's wrong. But he would laugh at it just crude things. And unless they like for nudity, not that I saw but like pictures of like a shadow of It's a little embarrassing to talk about, shadows of a man's penis, and, and this was like early on, and he would laugh about it. And I was like, yikes, okay, something is a little off here. And I would confront him on it. And sometimes he would receive it. But it was dismissive as well. Basically, he was unteachable, he was young, he was still in his late 20s. I saw the way that he would posture himself in elder meetings, he was unteachable, he would not listen to men who are leaders in their areas of business and industry and are men of God. He had his own his official group of Crossroads elders that he was technically under the authority of, but he had his own private board outside of that. It was composed of guys who would tell him what he wanted to hear. And some of these are the Bob Russell's, and others, some of whom have had what appears to be great success in ministry. But they didn't have the nuts and bolts of the character of Patrick Garcia. And so I think it could be said that he came with what looked like a good pedigree; graduate of Cincinnati Christian University, the son in law of Dave Stone, who at that time was the lead pastor at Southeast Christian Church. And so it looked like good pedigree, but I don't know that the proper due diligence was done in tossing him the keys, so to speak, of Crossroads Christian Church. It felt like the keys were tossed to a reckless teenager rather than a mature man of God, who had in mind things of God. JULIE ROYS  14:02 That's Crossroads Pastor Paul Linge, expressing a perspective that it sounds like neither, you know, you, Jack or Moriah had at the time. I'm just curious, as you listen to that, what kind of thoughts do you have and feelings about what you just heard? JACK SMOTHERS  14:20 Gosh, it's hard to go back in time and put yourself in that place. Of all the information that we were ignorant of. What we know now is Paul Linge is a man of God like that guy that is truly the real deal. He is a committed Christian and I don't have insider information because I was not a member of the elder board. But I am not surprised by anything. Any comment that he made in that clip. MORIAH SMOTHERS  14:46 There was a lot too. Jack and I kind of were looking at each other like we've heard this before. There was a lot of weight put on Patrick's pedigree, and the people that he had surrounding him in ministry support. And again we didn't know, but we thought that must mean something because it was consistently put out there. A phrase we heard a lot was ‘he comes from good stock'. I bet we've heard that hundreds of times. And knowing now that he was going a lot on reputation, and I think we've heard a lot for different organizations. But it seems like we're looking at charisma more than character is something I've heard in other churches. And yeah, nothing Paul said was surprising to us knowing what we know now. But, Julie, you're correct. We did not have any of that information, when this split was happening. And we were trying to make a decision; we didn't know. JACK SMOTHERS  15:38 And I think that's important for churches to keep in mind when they are, I think Crossroads did as good as they possibly could have with handling that situation. But as a congregant, I think we probably needed more information to truly assess their rationale, their justification for letting Patrick go, because we essentially put ourselves into a dangerous situation. JULIE ROYS  16:04 Well, it does sound like some of the elders did try to speak up and they were pretty strongly censored by people for doing that. So I know it can be a very difficult situation. And I've often said when I'm reporting, it's like saying something bad about somebody's grandmother. Like, it may be true, but people just don't want to hear it. They want to believe what they want to believe. And it can be a very difficult situation. But as you guys mentioned, Paul Linge mentioned one of the difficulties that Crossroads had was dealing with these outside advisors. And like you said, this stock that he came from, he had this close relationship with Bob Russell, retired pastor of Southeast Christian Church in Louisville, one of the biggest churches in the country, very influential church. At the time, Patrick was also married to the daughter of Dave Stone, who was the pastor of Southeast Christian Church at the time, and Patrick, and Dave Stone's daughter has since divorced, but at the time again, he was Dave Stone's son-in-law. I reached out to Bob Russell for comments about the role that he's been playing in Patrick's life, as well as the role that he was playing at the time. He did not respond to me. However, one of Patrick's other advisors is Jim Burgen, and he's the lead pastor of Flat Irons Community Church in Colorado. And Jim was kind enough to grant me an interview. And here's what Jim said, regarding his understanding, at the time of why Crossroads fired Patrick. JIM BURGEN  17:31 My understanding is that he was trying to be very transparent, trying to be very real and authentic, admitting that he wasn't perfect and admitting he dealt with depression, things like that. And I do remember him telling me that the I don't want to be a gossip because I wasn't there, alright? So I know that Patrick was telling me that they didn't really want that image of their pastor. They wanted their pastor to be somebody who, because he had faith, and because he had the word of God, these things weren't really problems in their life anymore. They want him to stand on a pedestal and be an example, that you can overcome anything, which is a lot of pressure, but it also is, it's just not integrity. And so I read the same stuff you've read, but I've heard from Patrick, they didn't want that. They didn't want that. And then they parted ways over the I don't believe they parted ways over one thing, though, like, is just the overall, you have a different philosophy of ministry than we do. JULIE ROYS  18:28 So like then, or since you haven't really talked to any of the leaders at Crossroads? JIM BURGEN  18:34 No, not once. Or Hills. I've not talked to any of those leadership. JULIE ROYS  18:39 Again, that's pastor Jim Bergen who served as an advisor, I think he still is a mentor to Patrick. I like Jim, he was very gracious to grant me an interview. And we talked a long time. But I have to say when I heard him say that he hasn't talked to the leadership of Crossroads or the Hills, not once, that was concerning to me. Especially I know, he had Patrick come speak at his church in 2019. So this was after Patrick was fired from Crossroads. And it just doesn't seem from my vantage point, that there was respect for the local elders; enough respect to say, hey, what happened? But it seemed more like Patrick was, he's our prodigy. He's our guy. And so if he says this, I'm going with it. And if there's one thing in this story that even we've seen so far, nobody reached out to you to get your side of the story. Nobody reached out to these elders between these advisors to get their side of the story. I'm guessing you're feeling some similar things there. But do you have anything to add that you thought when you heard this from Jim? JACK SMOTHERS  19:50 I don't know if Jim is willfully and intentionally ignorant, or if Jim is confused, perhaps, or maybe I'm wrong, right? But in my opinion, that's the only thing that I can say. His statement about Patrick trying to be very transparent and real and authentic. What Patrick was actually doing is trying to manipulate other people into getting what he wanted. So my reaction to pastor Bergen is, I guess I should have gracious assumptions and say he did not apparently know the real Patrick Garcia. MORIAH SMOTHERS  20:28 My concern with his statement too Julie is, I think, a lot of times when these situations occur, the person where the blame should fall is excellent at isolating individuals so they can control the narrative. And I think that when that happens, it's really easy to spin the story that is in your favor. And so I think it was a real leadership failure to not have broken out of that vacuum, and have talked to other stakeholders like the Hills and Crossroads and other people involved in that. JACK SMOTHERS  21:03 Do you feel that the language he was using, the language that Patrick would use about being so real and authentic was really a way to justify his sin and normalize his behavior? MORIAH SMOTHERS  21:17 Yeah, I think the closest thing I've ever read that accounts for that is that Chuck DeGroat. He wrote When Narcissism Comes to Church. I came across the term I think he's the one who coined it, it could have been someone else, but called fauxnerability. That term exactly represented the culture of the Hills, and the culture that I believe Patrick wanted to create; that I'm going to be very open, vulnerable, transparent, but it's more transactional. And then I'm not really going to live that privately, which was a lot of the interaction he and I had together was horrible. JULIE ROYS  21:52 So within months of Patrick leaving Crossroads, he joined this new church that two former pastors at Crossroads started Dave Bowersox and Darrell Marin. Both of you decided to become part of this new church. What motivated you to do that? JACK SMOTHERS  22:11 Really was our relationship with Dave, we barely knew Darrell. But we were in a small group of Dave and his wife, Sandy, and really trusted them and loved their family a lot. And we also had kids about their kids age and Dave and I had a meeting at the university where Moriah and I are employed. And he mentioned, they were creating an elder board and said, I would be a great fit for that. That never really came to fruition while we were there. They created an advisory team and invited Moriah to be on that. I wasn't invited. We were involved with a discipleship ministry while we were at the Hills. But anyway, our relationship with Dave is what drew us there. JULIE ROYS  22:54 The not having an elder board, and having an advisory board with I'm guessing really had no teeth or accountability. Am I right? MORIAH SMOTHERS  23:02 That's exactly right. And so this advisory board they created had men and women that were all in with the church. Which I thought at the time, like what a wonderful demonstration like representation of the church. It was made very clear to the board multiple times that there was no accountability that pastors had to us. And we were never to be a decision making body. At the time I was there, it was very much, so we're gonna read you our stats, tell you the good things we're doing and you brag on us. And so it was a Yes-man and woman situation, let's cheer and say, rah. But no, there was no authority with that position. JULIE ROYS  23:41 And I will just say right now, and I do get asked this all the time. But people say like, how can you evaluate a church? And it's step one, look at the elder board. Are they truly independent or are they beholden to the pastor in some way? Are they staff members of the church? In other words, is the pastor their boss, so of course they're not going to buck him? Are they family members? This is another one that nepotism that runs in these. All of these things need to be looked at but what can they really do look at the bylaws. Do you have bylaws? If you do have bylaws, how is a pastor senior pastor going to be removed? Is that spelled out in your bylaws? Finances – do you know how much your senior pastor makes? And I don't care if you're at a small church or a large church, whatever. To me the fact that religious nonprofits and churches don't have to reveal what their top wage earners make, but secular nonprofits do, to me is appalling. Why should the church be less accountable to the people that give it money than the world right? than the secular nonprofits? It's these kinds of red flags that before I got into doing what I do today, I wouldn't have thought of either so I don't fault people for it. But I think we're in a season or a time in the church right now that's really somewhat of a crisis, with scandal after scandal coming out. And if people, if the church individuals, congregants, if we don't wise up, we're never going to see a change, because it's not going to come from the top, it's going to come from the bottom up. So, Moriah, it's my understanding that about a year later, so it was about October 2018, that you began on the advisory board at the Hills church. But then Patrick started communicating with you on an individual basis. And this is what you would say, is the early stages of what you believe is grooming you. Would you describe why you believe that this was a grooming situation and the beginning of abuse? MORIAH SMOTHERS  25:48 Before I get into that, Julia, and I will, is that one of the things that was revealing in the Christian Post article is that Patrick actually told on himself and said that he'd had a crush on me for three years. We had no interaction, we didn't know each other and knowing what I know now, I absolutely believe that I was targeted well in advance. I think he had been taking notes on me the times we had interacted. Jack and I lead a Bible study group with the pastors for a new curriculum, there were some things from that were a little unusual, but I just didn't think much of. So that communication initially, I would have considered very innocuous. It was really about the ministry Jack and I were helping run and so a lot of those emails early on, like I would have to discuss with Jack and things like that. But eventually, they turned into more texting, still some emails, but more texting. And I didn't loop Jack in on those, which was a huge error on my part. But it really a lot of it was just like joking and silly things that if someone had picked up my phone and read, they would have thought, that's odd, her husband sat on a bit, it wouldn't have been anything. So it wouldn't have been an obvious red flag. And so I let a lot of that go, even though I'm sure I had a gut check at the time, but it's my pastor, like, I've always had healthy, safe relationships with my pastor. So I didn't think anything about it. it fairly quickly turned into joking though. His demeanor is very polling. He described it like a very silly kind of teenager, he just joking. The first thing that really caught my attention, though, was like, that doesn't seem quite normal is he sent a gift to my work. And so he put a different name on it a pseudonym. And it was an inside joke about a logo from Flat Irons. I made the joke our son was into Pokémon, and I asked him, I said, Well, Patrick, you're wearing a Pokémon shirt. Matt, our son would love bat, like I didn't know you were a fan. And so he sent this to my office. And then that was the first time it caught my attention, texting, communication. And honestly, a lot of times it was about church. And so it was intermixed between what was happening at church and fake life, and then personal and personal questions and things like that. I didn't have any of this language then. But all of this was really heavily infused with love bombing, which I know now I didn't know at the time that just this excessive praise, this endearment that, honestly, it really ingratiates someone with you, you feel so valued and seen. But the intention there is for manipulative purposes. And so I really believed a lot of that. The more we communicated, the more he sought out my opinion on church issues. And I did I just felt flattered that he thought my perspective was valuable in that context, because I've never, that's never happened before within that kind of inner circle church group. Also, the thing that very quickly happened is he started depending on me for things. He would just often say, like how overwhelming his work is, and he's so far behind, and he's shepherding and writing sermons and doing all these things, and I'm a former Special Ed teacher, like teachers are helpers by nature. It's what we do. It's what we're good at. And so I thought, like, oh, my gosh, I have the skill set, I can help you out. Do you need me to proofread something? Pretty quickly, he said, You just take over doing all my emails for work. And I thought, well, I can respond to some of them, I guess, because it's what my pastor needed. And so that's really where it started. It clearly escalated into much worse, but I would say those are some of the initial grooming stages is the joking silly conversations, personal questions, and then it started creating that need of I need you to help me be successful in ministry. The other piece that I would feel maybe goes between if we're looking at severity or intensity of grooming, this one kind of straddles the line is he very quickly started sharing personal information with me about himself and about his colleagues and about the church. He told me some things about Crossroads. I mean, just things that I had no business knowing as a congregant, confidential information that he never should have shared with me about himself and others. And so at the time, I was giving advice and input, but I felt flattered that he wanted to share that with me as well. JULIE ROYS  30:14 And I'm sure as you know, now, your story is not an isolated incident. This is a pattern that plays out over and over again. And at least from sitting in my seat, the one characteristic that I see that makes people vulnerable is it's the ones that are really sincere, and helper type people. And it's so awful because it's actually such a virtuous thing that the victim possesses as a character quality that predators seem to be able to just sniff out and just be able to exploit. And I know that's how you feel, and what you feel Patrick did to you. When did you first realize, Oh, my goodness, this is a dangerous relationship? MORIAH SMOTHERS  30:59 Yeah, it was fairly early on, really. I don't know that I would have said dangerous, but I recognize that I was looking forward to him communicating with me. And so it was even small, but I thought, Man, that's not healthy. And I think a common belief is that anyone who is targeted , they're struggling in their marriage. Jack and I have a wonderful marriage. We did before I was groomed we were doing well during and praise the Lord, we have a wonderful marriage now. And so I'd like to debunk that, that it's only broken people or broken marriages that are targeted, because that's not true. But it was pretty early on, I realized I'm looking forward to him texting, and that was messed up. And this is the other spot that man, if I could do anything and go back, this is the spot I would go back and redo this is I thought I could handle it. Because I really again believed that my pastor would honor his fiduciary duty of putting me and my family's best interest above his own. And so I said, Hey, I need to talk to you about something, let's FaceTime. And so we hopped on a FaceTime. And I tell him, I said, This is so humiliating, I'm humiliated, and I know you're going to be embarrassed. But I'm looking forward to you contacting me, I think I'm attracted to you. And so we need to cut communication. And he reported this in the Christian Post very differently than what had happened. I think he said, I hooked him. But what really happened is that I asked him, I said, this is again, I didn't understand, I thought it was my fault. I said, we need to stop all communication totally like this has to be done and over. And he said your family is too important to our church, to the ministry. I love your family, we need to be in contact still. So do you trust me to pray about it? Absolutely. I'll trust my pastor at that time to pray about it for me. And I said, Sure, I understand that. I didn't want to lose our community. And that I trusted him to pray about it. And Julie the part I would go back and do is that was my moment in time to tell Jack, but I did not tell Jack about what was going on. Because Jack is a man of character and integrity, we would have been out of that church so fast. I didn't want to lose our people in our community group. And what I didn't realize is Patrick came back and I basically just opened the doors for full on grooming and abuse. And he said, Moriah, you know, I never do this. I never say this when I preach from the stage. But God has told me that if we stay above reproach, then he wants us to be together. And it was a strong implication of like, for ministry purposes. And I was floored by that. But Jack and I are happily married and we're doing great. I had no desire to be out of my marriage ever. And so I was really confused by that. But he was very convincing that this was a word from the Lord. So things accelerated from there in a really tragic way. JULIE ROYS  34:03 And this is spiritual abuse 101. It doesn't get much more blatant than God told me. And this should be a red flag for anyone. But again, we're not trained in how to identify these red flags. But when somebody says God told me, I mean, how do you argue with that, right? I mean, it's just really manipulative language that somebody would use. MORIAH SMOTHERS  34:28 He's my pastor, I trusted pastors, healthy relationships. My dad was a pastor, like, I had no reason to think there would be any kind of predatory behavior. Like none at the time. I clearly know better now, but. JULIE ROYS  34:43 So about this time is when the relationship progressed to you and Patrick meeting in public parking lots, which is kind of a next step. Would you describe the frequency of these meetings and the nature of them? MORIAH SMOTHERS  35:02 So I remember the first one he asked to me. So we could figure out this is a common phrase of how to manage the tension of being in communication, but it not being romantic. That was the first time we met. I vividly remember how sweaty my hands were. I knew I shouldn't be in this situation. But I also, truthfully, I still trusted him that, okay, if I meet with him, then we can figure out a way for this to be over. That didn't happen. And so we did on and off continue to meet. I would say it was, I honestly don't remember a number. I would say maybe once every couple weeks or so. It was almost always surrounding the situation of I tried to end it, he would say, let me figure this out, figure out a plan so you don't have to leave the church. And then let's meet as our last time. And so when we would meet honestly, like, we talk about church, we would talk about our personal lives. It was a lot about how he was struggling just being a pastor managing everything difficult relationships. I felt like I was his counselor most of the time, it was a lot of that. Sadly, it did progress. The abuse never became fully sexual, but there was hand holding and hugging things of that nature that happened. Yeah. JULIE ROYS  36:23 And he said, in the Christian Post article that at one point, you tried to kiss him, but he put the brakes on. True? Not true? MORIAH SMOTHERS  36:32 I don't remember that happening. There was embracing that happened. So I could see him thinking that's where it was going. JULIE ROYS  36:40 So you wrote in your timeline that you sent me that during this period, you felt like, quote, an addict living two lives. Would you explain that? MORIAH SMOTHERS  36:49 So the timeline I sent you I wrote in 2020, when things were very fresh. I had no language surrounding abuse, trauma, ACSA. And so that feeling was still is still correct of how I felt. What I know now, though, is what that is was trauma- bonding. That happens in a cycle of abuse of feeling like very affirmed, valued the love bombing, and then trying to end it. And it's like this very toxic cycle. And so that's what it was, is I, frankly, I hated who I was becoming. I love being a wife and a mom, and I love my job. So there were so many beautiful parts of my life. I loved the church I was serving, we were super engaged. So I felt like there were all these beautiful parts of my life. And then there was this really toxic, ugly thing that I didn't know how to get out of. Even as a grown woman educated, I didn't know how to get out of this. And so that's where I just felt so painfully torn. Because at this point, I knew things were bad. Like I knew they were very bad, because we were communicating every single day, multiple times a day, even when I would end the relationship, he would still use phrases from the stage to communicate with me that were like inside praises. He'd post on social media photos, but he put little photos like emojis in the corner that were messages to me, and the communication was all the time. So I now know it was trauma bonding, but the truth is, at the time, I saw no way out without imploding our life. And so I stayed in it, because I didn't know how not to. JULIE ROYS  38:30 And it's interesting. And I hear this all the time, the minimizing of the devastation that a relationship that didn't go there was no sexual intercourse, but had obviously a sexual component to it had this kind of grooming involved in this kind of trauma-bonding, love-bonding, I mean, all of these things, the devastation is massive, isn't it? MORIAH SMOTHERS  39:00 Yeah. And I think what's really hard to account for and if I'm just being really honest, I don't expect for anyone who hasn't experienced this or walked with someone to understand this. But physically, what happened was minimal compared to the emotional and the spiritual wreckage of feeling like your pastor should be doing the right thing, and he's not. I would say I ended this relationship. I use that term very loosely, it was abuse, but I ended it two or three times every single month. It was ongoing. That was most of our conversations with me trying to figure out how to get out of this. And there was a lot of communication in between as well but yeah, I think what's not accounted for when these situations come out, is just the emotional spiritual psychological damage that's left in its wake and it's horrific. JULIE ROYS  39:57 And Jack during this whole time, are you seeing red flags or things that are making you go, what's going on? Or was this pretty much hidden from your sight? JACK SMOTHERS  40:06 I had no evidence if that's what you mean. But what I did see was Moriah's natural demeanor is very light hearted, very life giving just a joy to be around. And that was stolen. She became darker she became her humor became vulgar, her language in terms of profanity that started to occur. And so I remember asking her one time, like, hey, something is changing about you, and I don't know what it is. Is it something that's wrong with our relationship? Or what can I do to get us back on track? But something is off, and I don't know what it is. And she couldn't answer because she was in a cycle of abuse at the time. MORIAH SMOTHERS  40:51 And Julie, so horribly as well that I would sometimes bring this home to Jack. Like I was so torn up about what was happening privately that I would put that on our marriage and say, but if you treated me like this, when it had nothing to do with Jack. Towards the end, I even started saying, let's move, let's apply for jobs, let's go somewhere else, because I thought that's my only way out of this. And so was pushing so hard to escape, but I made life pretty hard for Jack for a while, because I was not me anymore. JULIE ROYS  41:24 Moriah, eventually, your relationship with Patrick included sexting. In fact, that was the title of the Christian Post article, basically, How Sexting Brought This Pastor Down. Would you describe the nature, the frequency, who initiated the sexting? How did that happen? MORIAH SMOTHERS  41:46 But that also had a grooming process to it. I've never been a selfie person, I think I'm just old enough that I missed that kind of way. Patrick would send dozens of photos a day. And so I think there was a grooming process with getting me to that place. But the sexting did occur, it is incredibly painful to talk about still. I don't remember the frequency, it wasn't truthfully, many times what I would consider overt sexting. But the ongoing dialogue for us was highly flirtatious and inappropriate. What I would say was over happened, I don't know probably less than 10 times, and it was always followed by like, guilt, shame, that can't happen again. And then we were back there. JULIE ROYS  42:33 All of this did remain secret until May of 2020. And that's when this police report came to the attention of pastors at the Hills church. How was there a police report that made this apparent to them? MORIAH SMOTHERS  42:47 I honestly I still don't have all the information. Because when everything did eventually come out, we were very much so left in the dark. So I don't fully understand all the details to this. But my knowledge, what I do know is that there was a time we were meeting in a public parking lot. We'd met there several times, the people working in that location had noticed it. And so after so many times of meeting there they called the police to check because they thought it was odd that two cars were parked there. I think we were there after hours even. And so a policeman came out just said, Hey, what's going on? Nothing was going on. And so, it wasn't any kind of like, charges or anything. It was just documentation that we had been there. And so I don't know the process of how that actually got to the Hills, but it did. Once that happened, I didn't know anything about that. I think we were on vacation as a family. And what I've been told not being involved in that is that Dave and Daryl, the other pastors, met with Patrick, confronted him with what was in the police report, which wasn't much information, just that we'd met there several times, and it was documented. Patrick spun a story that there was nothing going on, that he and I had only met there once. And Jack and I haven't seen this report. So we're not really sure what's in it. That he said we had only met there once, and that we were handing off a binder or a book or something. And so he had been there before, but I hadn't. And so very shortly after that, Patrick was also instructed not to contact me because they wanted to verify his story. Patrick got in contact with me immediately said this is exactly what happened. I remember he said, I took a bullet for us. And so you're gonna get called into a meeting with Dave and an elder, and this is what you need to say to backup my story. And so I knew what was going on. We got home from our vacation. Dave called and asked me to a meeting, and I asked if Jack could go with me, and he said no, he cannot. And so I think again, I was still I was not in a good place mentally and emotionally. I think I was hoping that if Jack was there, it would come out and maybe I could be free from this, but Jack wasn't allowed there. And so I remember sitting in the parking lot of where I was going to meet the pastor and the elder. And Patrick called me and he said, these are the exact lies I told. If you want to save your family, my family, the church, and also they were fundraising for a new building at the time. And that money he indicated to me was associated with him, because he had raised those funds. He said, If you want to save all these things,  then you need to backup my story. And I consented, or I agreed to backup his story. And so I think in the Christian Post article, it read very much so like I eagerly and enthusiastically agreed to lie. But I felt very much if I'm gonna lose my family and my church, then I'll lie. And so I did lie. I sat down with the pastor and the elder. They very much so wanted to hear the version of the situation, I told them, so I didn't have to lie much, because they wanted to believe it. And so I did lie in that situation. JULIE ROYS  46:03 And did you volunteer to step down from the advisory board at this time? MORIAH SMOTHERS  46:08 I did. Yeah, that was the primary way Patrick had access to me just individually without Jack around. Otherwise, Jack and I did ministry together, we were pretty much always together. So I said, I'm happy to step down from that. I guess that's appropriate. And they didn't want to raise any red flags about why I was stepping down. So they told me no, please don't do that. JULIE ROYS  46:28 Wow. And you secretly were trying to get out. MORIAH SMOTHERS  46:33 I was trying to get out in a lot of ways. But except being fully truthful with Jack, which would have got me out. JULIE ROYS  46:42 So Jack, what was your response when you heard the rendition of the story that Moriah told you? JACK SMOTHERS  46:50 The story that I received was, she made a silly mistake and met Patrick in a parking lot to receive a binder about church. Sounds pretty innocent when you are in a loving relationship with someone who has, over a long period of time, established a firm foundation of trust, you're raised in a family where people treat you in a trustworthy way. It builds a lot of gullibility in a way and so I didn't really second guess it. I just said, Oh, man, that was silly. Let's just learn from it and move on. And in retrospect, that was maybe not the most loving thing to do. The most loving thing to do would have been to ask more questions, if I felt uneasy about it. Yeah. JULIE ROYS  47:33 Yeah. It's tough, though. You don't want to be the jealous husband, who doesn't believe. It's a very difficult situation to be in. At this point, Moriah, you asked Patrick to basically get some outside help, right? Like, I mean, you knew he had this outside Advisory Council board, whatever you want to call it, mentors that he looked up to. How did he respond when you asked him to get this help? MORIAH SMOTHERS  48:02 Yeah. So all the previous times I'd ended it, it was really just between the two of us and I just want it to be done. But this time, I said, clearly, I felt like this was, again, I was spiritually very twisted. But I feel like this is God telling us like this has to be done. This was our chance to end it. And he didn't feel like he could end it, that he needed me. And so I asked him to just, I begged him, I'd said, like, please just talk to somebody tell somebody what is going on. Because this entire time, I had some real questions like even like I said, this an affair, isn't it? Nice to no, because it's not physical like that it's not. And I asked him, I said, please just talk to somebody get their input. And so he told me, he did talk to a couple people. One of them was a former colleague and friend that was in his previous church in Texas. And then also he communicated that he talked to Jim Burgen about it. I didn't know either of these people at all. But he told me that he was advised by both of them to not share any of this information with people at the Hills, the other pastors, they just didn't need to know the details, and it would cause a difficult situation. And so I thought he had been advised by wise counselors, which is what I asked him to do. JULIE ROYS  49:19 And of course, you have no way of knowing whether that actually happened or not. But I did reach out to Jim Burgen, and asked him specifically about this, about whether or not he ever encouraged Patrick not to confess the details of his relationship with you to the church. And this is what Jim Burger said. JIM BURGEN  49:37 I knew they were having struggles. I didn't know he was meeting in cars with women. Not at all. And if I had known that, I would have absolutely done the opposite of what you're hearing; cover it up, don't disclose. It would have been the opposite of that is you've got to cut this relationship. You need to go to Savannah, you need to go to your leaders. I was fresh off the heels of sabbatical. I was on a sabbatical for six months at the end of 2019, dealing just with a lot of exhaustion. So at that point, I would have been really raw and open because I was in such a tremendous, intimate relationship with my elders. They knew the inside out of my heart. I would have pointed in that direction too. Whether he had that or not, I don't know. But that's what my advice would have been. I never, never ever in a million years would say, cover this up, keep it a secret, don't give details because basically what I've been counseling this keep going just don't get caught, which would be absolutely the opposite of what I would ever have counseled anybody. JULIE ROYS  50:36 Again, Jim Burgen weighing in on his perspective of what happened. It didn't take a long time after this whole police report surfaced for the truth to come out. So apparently, the church sends Patrick off on, I'm sorry, this study break. I've seen so many study breaks. For pastors, they get caught with things like this, you wish they would just be upfront with what's going on. But instead, it's covered up from the church. And I guess he needs to do more study about something. But during that study break what was happening between the two of you? MORIAH SMOTHERS  51:15 Yeah, so during the study break, keep in mind, I was still on the advisory board, because they hadn't taken me off. This was also not disclosed to the advisory board at all about what was really going on, their concerns. We were still in communication. I think there were attempts to slow the communication down, that it was frequent. There was also up until this point, things had been bad. But again, most of our communication was just like silly, everyday things, light hearted. Things got dark after this and really heavy in a way that it hadn't been. There was a lot of like power reversals. And I remember Patrick being very clear that like, I have control of this situation. And he would want me to like verbalize consent at that. There was a situation where some pastor I have no clue who it was, it was just in the news that he had probably an affair, which is the language they use, which would have been abuse. And I said something to Patrick about it. And I said, “Hey, I read this story. Did you read that?” He had. And I said, “Doesn't that sound like what's happening here?” And he like, forced me to verbally agree that's not what's happening here. This is consensual, and so it just got really heavy. He also started pushing to blame. He was like, let's reassess when we're gonna be together. And I mean, I remember the clearest time again, only in hindsight of being gaslit was, I was just feeling very convicted. And I said something like Patrick, I'm not leaving Jack, I have no desire to end my marriage. I'm not doing that. And he somehow flipped it around, and I ended up apologizing to him, that I would even think he might ask me to do that. And so just really, really sick, twisted. But the communication was still often. JULIE ROYS  54:07 And how old was he at this point? MORIAH SMOTHERS  54:09 So if this was in 2020, he was probably 32 ish? JULIE ROYS  54:13 Thiry-two. It's a lot of responsibility for someone extremely young, really. And he's in his late 20s and pastoring a church of 7000 previous to this. It's just a little bit stunning that someone so young would be given that kind of responsibility. In September 2020, then I'm guessing he comes back from his summer break. And you met in person a few times. Would you describe what happened in those meetings? MORIAH SMOTHERS  54:45 Yeah, so all of those were to wrap things up to end things like again, there was this kind of mounting pressure. It just has to be that and frankly, I was starting to be a mess. Like I had been able to keep my life together pretty much. He would actually say, I know this is hard for you. But just let me shoulder the pressure of keeping this together. I was not doing well at that point in time. And so we met in a parking lot. And again, naively thought, like this is the last time, but that was, every time I was nervous and felt like oh my gosh, would have foreseen and it was, it was scary. That was the first time that he scared me, at the way he was behaving, and I actually had the thought, like, I hope I'm able to get out of this car. And it was just, it felt like things were moving really fast. And so again, I was hopeful that maybe that was the last time. But communication just continued, even though there's so many last times that communication continued still. JULIE ROYS  55:46 So the following month, October 2020, Patrick's wife, Savannah, she discovered some of the messages between the two of you the sexting, I'm guessing she saw? MORIAH SMOTHERS  55:57 Yeah. I don't know exactly what was seen. You read those? Yeah. Yeah, it was a lot of it was just silliness. But then there were things that absolutely indicated that there was sexting and it was highly inappropriate. JULIE ROYS  56:10 You found out about this from Patrick, right, when Savannah found out what was his demeanor and reaction? MORIAH SMOTHERS  56:19 Well, I knew something was a little wrong. We had been communicating. And Julie, I don't think I mentioned this, but early on through the grooming, it was mainly text, emails, and then it switched through social media platforms. And so he was always very thorough, reminding me like, hey, delete our messages, delete our conversations. And we were communicating with an app Words with Friends. We were playing a game on there, and there's a chat feature. And so we'd been communicating, I gotten distracted with something, and had just left our conversation because something happened quickly. And when I came back, I messaged him again, and there was never a response. And so I knew something seemed different because he always responded. But he didn't that time. And so it was all through the evening. I never got a response. I knew something was going on. I think that was I shared maybe a little bit with you at that time. I've minimized I heavily minimized what was going on to Jack. But I did disclose a little bit to him. And it was sometime in the middle of the night, I got an email from a random email address. But the email address and how it was worded was like a lot of inside jokes between us. And the phrasing was really strange. It didn't the email it was from Patrick. We know now he had all this like technology taken. So I don't know how he did this. But he basically said that Savannah found messages. And then he included a bulleted list to say like, these are the lies we've told remember them and back them up about what it was. But the email sounded like silly, like almost joking. It was not like, devastated. It wasn't angry. It was a very strange message. When I knew that this had been discovered, I freaked out. And so I deleted the email, I never responded and I like permanently deleted it from my Gmail. And the next day, he sent another one from the same email and it was just, sorry, with a crying emoji and I deleted that one as well. I did end up telling Jack eventually that he had sent that. So I did know something was coming. But I didn't know the fallout that was about to happen. JULIE ROYS  58:30 Jack, how did you find out? JACK SMOTHERS  58:32 Moriah disclosed a little bit of what was going on. But really it was Dave Bowersox who called and shared the communication, the sexting conversations that had occurred, and in a PDF document. And so I read through those, and yeah, that's how I found out. Of course I was devastated at the time. But my really, I think God was very gracious over me at that point in time because all I could think about was our kids. Sorry. Two wonderful and amazing children that they deserve a safe home. They deserve to feel protected. And this was an attack on our family. We have a great example in scripture of Christ protects his bride, how Christ dies to himself to protect his family. So that's where we at. Sometimes protecting your family looks like getting on your knees and praying. Sometimes protecting your family looks like asking a lot of questions. listening intently. I was thankful that in our job, so in higher education, we are required to go through training. I believe it's every year, we're required to complete these modules just on what is Title IX, sexual harassment, all these things. There's one thing that stuck out to me. And it was where there's a power imbalance, there's no such thing as consent. And so I thought, okay, professors, student, doctor, patient, Pastor, congregant. These are all similar relationships where there's a direct power imbalance, there could not have been consent, and I'm smashing all this together. This was not all at one time, this was weeks or maybe months of reflecting and trying to absorb the information that we have. It wasn't until probably a year after it all came out that we really understood ACSA and that entire framework. MORIAH SMOTHERS  1:00:48 But Jack was the first person to raise this piece of information, like how is there consent there as your pastor? And some of the contextual things that I'd never recommend this for anybody, but we were quarantined at the time, with COVID. So we couldn't be with anybody. And so we can laugh about it now a little bit, but it was at the time, just heartbreaking. I was so broken and devastated and confused. It looked like I was coming out of a cult. Like there's this like trauma fog that descends. I didn't know what to do. I followed Jack everywhere in our house. I couldn't be away from him. And so he's grieving and mourning, and I'm following him around and we're quarantined and have little children that were trying to – it was a mess. So everything we did was over Zoom about all the disclosures. JULIE ROYS  1:01:41 So how did you feel the church responded to you, Moriah? MORIAH SMOTHERS  1:01:45 I don't want to over exaggerate this. And I can share details. The abuse from my pastor was horrible. The way the church responded was ten times more traumatizing than the abuse. JULIE ROYS  1:02:04 That concludes part one of my interview with Moriah and Jack Smothers, and we're ending on a bit of a cliffhanger. But this is something that I've heard over and over again from victims. The original abuse is horrific, for sure. But it's easier to understand that the church can have one bad apple than to realize that it's not just one bad apple. There's a whole system protecting and managing that one bad apple, often at the expense of the victim. And you'll hear that part of Moriah and Jack's story in part two, and it's such an important story. So I hope you'll be watching for that to release in just a few days. But thank you so much for listening to The Roys Report. And if you've appreciated this podcast and our investigative work, would you please consider giving a gift to support us? As I've said before, we don't have big corporate sponsors or large donors. We have you, the survivors, advocates, allies and church leaders who care about ridding the church of predators and making it a safer place. Also, this month if you give a gift of $30 or more, we'll send you Christy Boulware's book, Nervous Breakthrough; Finding Freedom From Fear and Anxiety in a World That Feeds It. This is such a great resource for anyone struggling with anxiety and panic attacks, or really any mental health issue. So to get the book and support the Roys report, just go to JULIEROYS.COM/DONATE. Also, just a quick reminder to subscribe to The Roys Report on Apple podcast, Google podcasts or Spotify. That way you'll never miss an episode. And while you're at it, I'd really appreciate it if you'd help us spread the word about the podcast by leaving a review. And then please share the podcast on social media so more people can hear about this great content. Again, thanks so much for joining me today. Hope you are blessed and encouraged. Read more

[00:00:00] Alvin Sanders: The hardest decision I had to make concerning my own personal level of leadership was the decision that I made in 2007 to leave the pastorate and to work for the denomination. And the thing that got me was the President who unfortunately has passed away, Bill Hamill, he asked me the question, he said, Alvin, do you want to influence one church or do you want to influence 1500 churches? And honestly, I had to ask to myself, and I said I want to influence 1500 churches. ​+++++++++++++++++++++++ [00:00:34] Tommy Thomas: Our guest today is Dr. Alvin Sanders. On his LinkedIn Profile it says, President and CEO of World Impact, Adjunct Seminary Professor, Advocate for Redemptive Poverty Work, Husband, Father, Author, Mentor, and Loves Sports. I imagine we could do a podcast episode on all those titles, particularly the one about sports. But today I want to focus on Alvin's role as the President and CEO of World Impact, and in particular their work as an advocate for redemptive poverty. Alvin, give us your elevator speech on World Impact.  [00:01:17] Alvin Sanders: World Impact started about 52 years ago and we're trying to solve the problem that 95% of the world's pastors have no formal ministry training. We believe that we provide effective ministry training that's affordable and accessible as part of the solution to that problem. And our theory of change is that trained urban pastors lead to healthier churches, which leads to them impacting their community toward flourishing.  [00:01:45] Tommy Thomas: Good. You got that one down. [00:01:46] Alvin Sanders: That's good. I don't know if that was 30 seconds or not. I got it.  [00:01:50] Tommy Thomas: To our listeners, Alvin and I met, at least for me, in an unusual way. I was conducting the CEO search for the City Gospel Mission in Cincinnati, and I did my LinkedIn research and I liked Alvin's background. I thought he might be a good candidate. So, I called him, and he said, no, he was pretty committed to World Impact, but then he turned the tables on me. He says we need a couple of additional cabinet members. Would you be interested in helping us? And next thing I knew Alvin had recruited me to help him with two searches. I didn't have to submit a proposal or anything.  So, Alvin, I guess I owe you a big thank you for trusting us with that work. [00:02:26] Alvin Sanders:  You did an excellent job. I have two awesome team members, and we're a better organization because of your work.  [00:02:34] Tommy Thomas: Thank you. Take me into a little bit of your background. I'm always curious how people got their start.  What do you remember about your childhood that maybe has contributed to the man you are today? [00:02:44] Alvin Sanders: Yeah, so I'm a military brat. My father was in the Air Force for 30 years and we lived globally. For instance, I spent four years in Okinawa, Japan during my formative language years, and I don't remember this, but I've been told that I used to be able to speak fluent Japanese, so I wish that I could conjure that up again, but I can't. But that had a big effect on me. Because I grew up what's called a third culture kid. And you can look that term up, but it's essentially a person who could see into different cultures while not being in them, I would say you grow up organically, culturally flexible. That's probably the easiest way to describe it. And so that led me to ministry. I've been in ministry for 32 years. I started in ministry at 21. Worked at a variety of places but they always had a connection to the urban context of making disciples there. And I worked with the Evangelical Free Church of America planting an inner-city church in the city of Cincinnati. I worked for the aforementioned City Gospel Mission before that under their president who's no longer with them, Roger Howell. And then I also worked for the Evangelical Free Church of America denomination, running their All-People initiative. And then I came the World Impact as a Senior Vice President in 2015 and then became president in 2017.  And this is where I hang my hat.  [00:04:06] Tommy Thomas: So, growing up all over the world, what was high school like for you?  [00:04:10] Alvin Sanders: My dad ended up retiring in Columbus, Ohio, so that's where I spent most of my time. And that's where I went to high school. [00:04:17] Tommy Thomas: And when you got to college, how'd you pick a major? [00:04:21] Alvin Sanders: The first major that I picked was Physical Therapy, and the first college that I went to was Bowling Green State University near Toledo, Ohio. And while on campus I got very involved with a campus ministry. None of the major ones, but just a small one that was started by a fellow student. And it was during that time I said, man, I think God's calling me to do this full time. So, I ended up transferring to Cincinnati Christian University and as they say, the rest is history. [00:04:52] Tommy Thomas: What's something that people might be surprised to know about you that maybe is not on your LinkedIn profile or not in any writing anywhere? [00:05:01] Alvin Sanders: Oh, let's see. That I'm a homebody. Much to my wife's chagrin. A perfect day for me is doing nothing. It is sitting in my recliner downstairs with food and drink and watching good sports or good news stories or whatever, but I love to do nothing.  [00:05:27] Tommy Thomas: Now that would come as a surprise just from my working with you because in our relationship, you've been out and about and upfront and returning from a speaking engagement or headed to one.  [00:05:38] Alvin Sanders: Yes, and I'm sure that's probably what plays into those times when I don't have anything to do. I cherish them.  [00:05:43] Tommy Thomas: Take me back to your first management job when you actually had somebody that you were responsible for. What do you remember about that? [00:05:51] Alvin Sanders: The crazy thing, it was both a blessing and a curse, was the first ministry position I've ever held. I had pretty significant responsibilities. And I learned I can be an intense person.  God bless the first people that I had to supervise and the first volunteers I had to direct because with a military and athletic background and an intense personality – I'm sure those people got fried. I was probably a marine minister; I would say so to speak. And what I remember is God's providence and blessing the success of the things that I did. And I also had a lot of learning lessons about what it means to really invest and treat people with respect and dignity.  [00:06:44] Tommy Thomas:  You've had a long career in ministry and I'm sure you've had times that have “tested your mettle”. Maybe can you take us into one of those and what you learned or maybe didn't learn from it?  [00:06:55] Alvin Sanders:  The biggest, one of those things, Tommy, that tested my mettle was when me and my wife planted at a church in inner-city Cincinnati. About six months into the church planting experience, there was a police shooting of a young black teenager by a white police officer. This was spring of 2001 and the neighborhood in which we planted a church where the shooting took place exploded in civil disobedience. And you want to talk about the crucible of ministry and trying to figure out what to do. We were young church planters. Six months in just trying to get a church together and draw people, and then all of a sudden, this thing happens. And we learned to depend upon God and that Proverbs, I think it's Proverbs 3:5-6, trust in Lord and all that you do and lean not on your own understanding. In all thy ways, acknowledge him and he shall direct your paths because there's no strategic plan for planting a church in the middle of a race riot. There just isn't. So, we really learned what it means to trust the Lord and invest in people deeply, invest in a neighborhood deeply so that we can both improve the lives and hearts of the people as well as the neighborhood and pursue the common good.  And so, that changed the trajectory of my life.  [00:08:15] Tommy Thomas: So yeah, pursuing the common good. What did that look like, could you take us into how you executed that?  [00:08:22] Alvin Sanders: Yes. It starts with the philosophical bent of you have to be deeply committed to the people of the neighborhood and the place that it's in. There are no walls to the church.  The people who are typically in communities of poverty, folk come in there and they don't have a deep commitment to them. They come and go as they please. They don't have a long-term commitment to them. And so, in terms of the people, it's just a biblical process of, evangelism, discipleship, helping them become better people in Christ. But in terms of commitment to place we utilized very heavily a concept called asset-based community development, or ABCD, where you map out the assets of a community. Because when it comes to communities of poverty, in a lot of places, people always look at what's wrong with the community. Asset-based community development says every community has things that are wrong. What's right with the community? And look at what's right with the community and see how you can be. How you can fill the glass up, so to speak. If the glass is half full or half empty is the negative stuff half full? Is the water in the glass? So how do you raise the level of water, so to speak? And so, when we did our asset-based mapping, we saw that what the community did not have was many services for the working poor. Yeah, because most of the people who are in poverty are working. They're not the folks standing on the corner saying, please, brother, can you spare a dime? They're not those people. Not that those people aren't in poverty, but that's not what the face of poverty looks like. The face of poverty in the United States looks like a single mother with kids who's working a service industry job. And so, we really began a ministry towards that group. Working with my wife to establish a food pantry and health check center in the back part of the church. So, we established a food pantry that people could utilize once a month because that's really all they needed once we did our surveying. And that helped them stretch their check. They could come in, they could get the groceries, and they maybe had money for three weeks, but then this would be the fourth week. And then also while they were there, we partnered with Xavier University with their nursing student program, and nursing students would be in the back and they could get they can get diabetes check and things of that nature. And then if they had any health issues, we would refer them down the street to a local health clinic. And then we also had a person, one of our staff members who would sit in the back and say, hey - anybody have any spiritual concerns or any spiritual or anything, you want us to pray for this, that or the other, or just see general life advice from the Word then they could go stop there.  So, we had a three-stop shop where people could come get their food, they could get their health checked, and then they can be ministered to spiritually as well. [00:11:28] Tommy Thomas: Obviously most of my experience with you has been in the hiring mode. And I probably know a little bit of the answer to this next question. But for people who wonder what a CEO looks for in senior leadership, take us into some of the qualities that you're looking for in leaders. [00:11:43] Alvin Sanders: Yes. Basically, and I don't remember which guru I got this from, or what book I read it from, so it's not original to me. But there are two main characteristics that I always look for in my team. Can they do the job right and can they do the job well? Can they do the job right has to do with their moral character and whether or not they fit into our core values at World Impact. So we screened for that, and then we hired you all to screen for can they do the job well. That has to do with skillsets and the abilities that people may have in order to do the job description that we have designed for that particular job.  Can they do the job right? Can they do the job well? Those are the two big things that I look for in my team to contribute to the leading of World Impact. [00:12:35] Tommy Thomas: I remember, and yours was the first, and I guess so far the only client I've had that used this thing, I think you called it a circle of voices. And I thought that was cool. And every listener may use it in their work. I don't know. But take us into that. [00:12:49] Alvin Sanders: When we're making major decisions, we don't do it for every decision. We do it only for major decisions. We do a circle of voices and again, I don't remember where I picked this up from, but what we do is whatever the decision that we have to make, we give to everybody around the table, you have to speak for at least two minutes, but no more than five minutes and give your perspective on what decision we need to make and why, and it's like you're in court, you're a lawyer, make your case for why, what do we, what do you think we need to do and why? And nobody else can speak while that person is speaking. And then I'm literally the timekeeper. So you only get five minutes. You must speak for at least two minutes, but you only get five. And then after each person has spoken, then we open the floor up for dialogue and debate and come to a collaborative decision.  [00:13:52] Tommy Thomas: On the flip side of that, and I hadn't been with you on this, but what goes into how you finally decide somebody's got to go and what have you seen the best way to do it?  [00:14:02] Alvin Sanders: We try to err on the side of grace. And we believe in weekly feedback. So, our supervisors theoretically are coaches. So theoretically, if we say you're to supervise someone, it's because we believe that you can coach that person to be a better person who contributes to the mission of our organization. So, if someone is constantly not living up to what we desire for them to do within our organization, then we utilize the tool that everybody else utilizes a Performance Improvement Plan or PIP. And some people think, once I've been PIPPED that's just the time period that you have for me to work until I have to find another job. But that's not what we utilize it for. Hopefully, we really want to say, hey, we want you to improve. And there have been people that we have put on Performance Improvement Plans that they actually emerged out of that, and they kept going. And then after a PIP, if you still aren't doing what you need to do, then we just have a brutally honest conversation with the person. Just say, hey, it's not working out here for you. It's time for you to transition out. We always work hard to get people to self-select out. And 90 - 95% of the time, that's what happens. We are long-suffering. We practice the spiritual discipline of patience. It's no surprises. The only people who get fired from our organization are people who do egregious violations of our core values. If you do an egregious violation of our core values, then you must go, because we've communicated our core values to you. Core values to us are not just some booklet that sits on a shelf. We actually live them. We do things to catalyze them. So, most people that get fired, they've egregiously violated, but the overwhelming majority of people who are World Impact transition out. If they're not, we help them figure out how to transition out and self-select. [00:16:15] Tommy Thomas:  You mentioned you were in senior leadership fairly early on. Who were some of the mentors in your life and how did that play out? [00:16:23] Alvin Sanders: Yeah, I've had several mentors the aforementioned City Gospel Mission and Roger Howell. He was my first boss who really helped shape and mold me into the person I am today. When I worked in Chicago for two years and I worked at a place called Circle Urban Ministry, Glen Kayron was someone who invested in me deeply. When I did my PhD studies Dr. Michael Dantley, who's a prominent African American pastor in the city of Cincinnati, as well as he was a professor at Miami University, and I studied under him. He played a key role in my development as well.  [00:16:59] Tommy Thomas:   Did these people see something in you, and of course I guess your bosses, they can understand that. But did mentors see something in you and seek you out, or did you see something in them and figured you'd be better if you could sit under their tutelage? [00:17:16] Alvin Sanders: Well, it's a combination of both. And I actually left one out that he's probably the person who saw the most in me at the beginning, and that's a gentleman ny name of Dr. Jonathan Burnham, who his church, Hope Evangelical Free Church, was the parent church of my church, River of Life church. And he saw me as a tremendous leader. Way more than I did. I had leadership characteristics, but I was extremely raw and rough around the edges, and Jonathan Burnham really invested in me and my family and helped us when we planted River of Life Church. And those seven, eight years I spent under his tutelage were tremendous. [00:17:56] Tommy Thomas: I never phrased this question exactly right, but I guess I'm looking for when you recognized, and maybe you acknowledged that you did have leadership potential and some of those rough edges began to smooth and you felt more comfortable moving.  Do you remember that?  [00:18:11] Alvin Sanders:  I'm arrogant enough to have never thought I wasn't a leader.  It was never about that for me. What it was about for me was getting more polished. If I was in the room, I was going to lead, that's just the way it was going to go because that's the way my personality type I'm told, so the old Myers Briggs, I am an ENTJ, and I'm told that's a characteristic of that personality type that we either lead or we influence. The head leaders, we take our ball, and we go home. That's basically our personality type. Okay. So, for me, it was a matter of how to be a good godly leader. How to get polished to be able to do that instead of just leading rough shot and wild.  [00:18:56] Tommy Thomas: Thinking about your team do y'all have any team-building exercises that you use that you found effective as you try to bring this group together? [00:19:05] Alvin Sanders: We have a meeting rhythm as a team. We get together for 90 minutes every four or five weeks, and then once a quarter we do a two-and-a-half day offsite. And the offsite is a combination of relationship building as well as business items. During our 90-minute time together, we always start our meetings off by sharing one good thing. What's one good thing professionally or personally that's happened to us since our last time together? We also always have prayer time together. And during our offsites, we have extended sharing, and extended prayer because I have a saying that I care much more about who you are as a person than what you do. And we live that. And we live that out. And that's the biggest thing that we do as an executive team in order to, for us to be glued to one another.  [00:20:03] Tommy Thomas: So y'all have operated as a virtual organization from a long time ago. And obviously, it's worked, or you wouldn't be doing it.  Tell us a little bit about that.  [00:20:13] Alvin Sanders: Yes. We were virtual before it was cool to be virtual. And the prior president to me, Efrem Smith, he's the one who implemented that. And then when I came in being virtual can be done, but you have to be very intentional about relationship building, like the things that I just talked about. Operating a virtual ministry can be done but you must be VERY intentional about relationship building. We have monthly prayer times where we have all staff get on Zoom for an hour, and half that hour we spend in prayer, both large group and small group. And in the other half, we highlight two staff members where we just do some lighthearted questions and answers and let everybody get to know one another. Once a year we gather all staff together for one day of team meetings, and then two and a half days of really just fun. And investing in one another and encouraging one another around one of our core values. Because we have five core values. So, we do a theme each year.  So, we do a lot of intentional relationship-building. And we just experimented with something that we're probably going to keep and that it's in the spring. We've had regional gatherings, so we have staff spread off all across the country and we gather staff for a day in Cincinnati, a day in Wichita, Kansas, and a day in Long Beach. And based on where you lived, you went to one of those locations and we had some training and team-building time. So really to sum it all up, it's intentional relationship building.  [00:21:45] Tommy Thomas: What was the biggest lesson on the positive front that your team took out of Covid relative to management and leadership? [00:21:54] Alvin Sanders: Wow. The biggest lesson. [00:22:00] Tommy Thomas: Something that you might take forward. You might think COVID is gone, but we're still going to probably do that.  [00:22:04] Alvin Sanders: Actually, you know what? It's what we just talked about because we weren't doing all that before covid. We were virtual, but we weren't gathering, we were not utilizing the tool of technology like we do now, and we were not gathering like we do now. [00:22:21] Tommy Thomas: I thought early on that Covid was bound to have some kind of silver lining and usually everybody that I talked to, there's some kind of silver lining for it. [00:22:32] Alvin Sanders: And that's what it was because we weren't we started praying online together because this is a serious time. We want to pray for our country and pray for each other. Let's get online once a month and all pray together. And it was like, you know what? This is pretty awesome. Let's keep doing it.  [00:22:47] Tommy Thomas: What's the most dangerous behavior or trait that you've seen derail a leader's career? [00:22:53] Alvin Sanders: The number one thing I think that either makes or derails a leader's career is emotional intelligence. Having self-awareness of your strengths and your weaknesses and adjusting accordingly. Being able to look at others and not see them as an object in your way or just, not as human beings and people actually caring about them and their work and their contribution. The number one thing I think that either makes or derails a leader's career is emotional intelligence. Having self-awareness of your strengths and your weaknesses and adjusting accordingly. As well as them as people, individually, people who do not have good emotional intelligence. Eventually, the house burns down. That's what I've seen.  [00:23:39] Tommy Thomas:   It's been said that we learn the most from our failures or our mistakes. If that's true, why is it that most of us are so afraid to fail? [00:23:48] Alvin Sanders: I don't think you can learn, Tommy, unless you do fail. I have a weird goal and that's to fail every day. Because if I'm not making mistakes, that means I'm not pushing myself to be the best person I could be.  Because no one knows everything. The way you get to learn things is you have to fail at it first. It's impossible to know something until you have some failures. It's impossible to know something until you have some failures, and then in those failures, you say, okay, what can I pick up and learn from this? And then you move forward.  [00:24:19] Tommy Thomas:  I was talking to Alec Hill, the President Emeritus of InterVarsity, or maybe it was Rich Stearns.  I forget which one. But anyway, they said, “Never trust a leader who doesn't have a limp”.  [00:24:31] Alvin Sanders: Yeah - Amen on that.  [00:24:33] Tommy Thomas:  I know you're a busy man and yet you've talked about how you like to rest and enjoy. How do you and your wife handle work-life balance in your leadership role?  You know what, I'm contrarian on that. I think it's impossible to have work-life balance. [00:24:45] Alvin Sanders: You know what, I'm contrarian on that. I think it's impossible to have work-life balance. I don't like to look at it that way. I like to look at it as seasons. There are seasons of busyness and then there are seasons of Sabbath and rest. And that's how I view my life and that's how my wife and I do that now. We're empty nesters now. Yeah, we're much less busy than we used to be. We're still busy. But I think like I said I'm a contrarian and I believe that it's impossible to have a work-life balance or I just never figured out how to do it. It's just,  look, I live my life in 90 days sprints, right? And I go, okay, honey, this is what my 90 days is going to look like. The month of July, not going to see you much. But look here, in mid-August, I'm taking 10 days off. We'll be together. So it's quarter-like to me, it's seasons. And it's seasons of super busyness and then seasons where you're not so busy and when you're not so busy, you make sure to take time to connect relationally with the people who are most important to you. [00:25:52] Tommy Thomas: What's the hardest decision you've had to make in leadership?  [00:26:03] Alvin Sanders: There's been a ton. The hardest decision I had to make concerning my own personal level of leadership was the decision that I made in 2007 to leave the pastorate and work for the denomination. And the thing that got me was the President who unfortunately has passed away, Bill Hamill, he asked me the question, he said, Alvin, do you want to influence one church or do you want to influence 1500 churches? And honestly, I had to ask myself and I said, “I want to influence 1500 churches”. And that was a super tough decision because our church, the Church River of Life. We still go there, by the way, even though we don't pastor there. Me and my wife says that's our third child. We have two wonderful daughters and River of Life. We basically feel like that's our third child. So, it was literally like leaving your child to someone else's care when we left that.  [00:27:03] Tommy Thomas: You worked for a great guy in Bill Hamill. I had the privilege of knowing him over the years and it was always good. I always loved my time with Bill. [00:27:11] Alvin Sanders: Great man. A great man of God. [00:27:14] Tommy Thomas:  Changing up maybe on a little bit lighter note, if you were a judge on a nonprofit version of Shark Tank and you had deep pockets, what questions would you have to have solid answers for before you would back one of these startups?  [00:27:33] Alvin Sanders: I don't know about specific questions, but I know the things that I would screen for. I would screen for the person - do they know who they are and what they want to do? Essentially, that's where my big questions would be about. Do they know who are they solidly? Can they solidly define who they are as a person and as an individual? And can they solidly describe where they think they want to go?  And take then, therefore, take the organization that they're leading.  [00:28:06] Tommy Thomas:  On the same line of thought, if you were developing a dashboard for a nonprofit to get a look at their health, what are some of your dials going to be?  [00:28:19] Alvin Sanders: I would want to look at how they do with staff development and stability. What kind of people are they hiring? What kind of things are these people doing? Are they organized correctly? The org chart, things of that nature. I would also want to look at their systems and how they do things and what are their processes and how do they get things done. What are the tools that they use? Are they correctly dialed into technology and things of that nature to help them achieve their mission? And as well as the obvious one is financially, how are they doing financially? What's their revenue generation look like? Are they built? Really, if you take those things together, then you can make a determination.  Are they built for sustainability for the long haul?  [00:29:07] Tommy Thomas: If you could go back to a time and tell your younger self one thing, what would that be? [00:29:12] Alvin Sanders: Relax. Relax. Not that serious. Slow down. Why are you running so hard? Where are you trying to go? Stop and smell the roses. [00:29:26] Tommy Thomas: If you had a do-over in your career, what would it be? [00:29:30] Alvin Sanders: I would say in the generality, there were probably opportunities. Here let me give a little bit of context. Okay. God is very merciful to me in that there are opportunities that I turned down, which for whatever reason, circle back to me. And then the second or third time, I recognized it for the opportunity that it was, and I took it. So, the one do over, I would say just speaking in generalities, is being able to recognize opportunities for what they are right off the bat. And not having God have to circle back for me.  [00:30:24] Tommy Thomas: I'm thankful to Alvin for taking time from his schedule to join us today. After we stopped recording. I told him that we could have talked for another hour. I really enjoyed the time with him. I'll post links to Alvin's work with world impact in the show notes. As well as links to some of the books that he has written.  [00:30:24] Tommy Thomas: Thank you for joining us today. If you are a first-time listener, I hope you will subscribe and become a regular. You can find links to all the episodes at our website –https://jobfitmatters.com/podcast/. If there are topics you'd like for me to explore my email address is tthomas@jobfitmatters.com.   Word of mouth has been identified as the most valuable form of marketing.   Surveys tell us that consumers believe recommendations from friends and family over all other forms of advertising.  If you've heard something today that's worth passing on, please share it with others. You're already helping me make something special for the next generation of nonprofit leaders. I'll be back next week with a new episode until then stay the course on our journey to help make the nonprofit sector more effective and sustainable.    Links and Resources JobfitMatters Website Next Gen Nonprofit Leadership with Tommy Thomas Alvin Sanders - World Impact Uncommon Church: Community Transformation for the Common Good by Alvin Sanders Redemptive Poverty Work by Alvin Sanders Bridging the Diversity Gap: Leading Toward God's Multi-Ethnic Kingdom by Alvin Sanders   Connect Tommy Thomas - tthomas@jobfitmatters.com Tommy's LinkedIn Profile Alvin's LinkedIn Profile

In our era, we are facing a tremendous problem. The essential ingredient for community transformation is leadership. Yet most ministries do not have an intentional process to grow leaders. Solid leadership within an urban ministry organization is critical for sustainability. In this course, Alvin Sanders will address the challenges of developing indigenous urban leaders. He shares a model of how an urban ministry can create and maintain a leadership “pipeline” filled and flowing to guarantee a stable supply of skilled leaders.Dr. Alvin Sanders has a personal mission to be with God, love his family, and invest in those who invest in the poor. In 25 years of ministry, he has served as an urban church planter, denominational leader, and university professor. Educationally he is a graduate of Cincinnati Christian University, Trinity Evangelical Divinity School, and Miami (OH) University. Presently he serves as a senior vice president with World Impact, a Christian mission organization committed to resourcing urban disciple-makers. He and his wife Caroline have been married since 1994 and are the proud parents of two children.Creating a Leadership Pipeline PowerpointCreating a Leadership Pipeline Online Course

Have you heard of Micah Turnbo? Micah is a Seer Prophet, founder of BeholdWonder.com and the Pastor of Prophetic Ministry at Vineyard Church Northwest in Cincinnati, Ohio. He grew up in a very prophetic family where spending time with God was a normal part of homeschooling, and then continued his education at Cincinnati Christian University and International House of Prayer in Kansas City, Missouri (IHOPKC). Micah's mission is to encourage people to connect to the heart of God and his goal is to see friends of God encounter him in a real way so that his display of glory and power is recognized all across the earth. He's been a guest on Blurry Creatures and has been on our radar for quite a while. --- This episode is sponsored by · Anchor: The easiest way to make a podcast. https://anchor.fm/app

About the Speaker: Trey is the Associate Minister at CrossPointe Church in Mansfield, MA. He earned his Bachelor's of Arts in Biblical Studies from Cincinnati Christian University. Trey enjoys all things Andy Griffith and is an avid coffee drinker. He loves spending time with his wife Bailey, his sons Griffith and Shepherd, and his dog Watson. He was born and raised in Indiana, washed cattle in high school, and loves to listen to country music. More than anything else, Trey is most passionate about influencing people to live a sacrificial life devoted to King Jesus. Although, he lives just outside of Boston, MA, and is NOT a Patriots fan. About Chapel: The chapel theme for the 2021-2022 year is "upRoar". The Greek word that is translated as “uproar” isἐκταράσσω (ektarassō),: to agitate, to disturb wholly, to exceedingly trouble. Although an uproar is “seen,” it is preceded with a subversive force. The church operates in a similar way, being subversive to the rhythm of the culture it exists within. It is the perpetuation of this subversive force that causes and creates an uproar that is seen and felt. It is our goal this year to explore ways for us to participate in the subversive kingdom force that will create an uproar in the culture God calls us to. Listen to messages at Boise Bible College: https://boisebible.edu/messagesatbbc. Music by https://www.bensound.com.

Are you guys ready? On today's podcast, Brandon Joyner sits down with Logan Webber to learn more about him and his volleyball adventure. He is one of the top up-and-coming blockers in the United States. How did he get his big break? Let's jump into this episode and get started! Timestamps: 02:00 - Better at Beach Volleyball Announcements 03:45 - Get to Know Logan Webber And His Journey 33:51 - Live Q and A Head Coach Mark Burik has been coaching sports for 16 years and has over a decade of playing and coaching experience in volleyball. Burik has been a mainstay on the AVP Tour and also competes regularly on the FIVB World Tour. Recognized as one of the top beach volleyball players in the country, he has numerous championships under his belt and has won the legendary Pottstown Rumble three times. He has been a part of the Gold Medal Squared staff, which promotes a system of teaching designed by national team coaches. Brandon started playing volleyball in Chester, Virginia when he was 16 years old for his high school volleyball team. As a senior, Brandon was named Virginia State Player of the Year and has been a coach for more than 10 years. He found success in the National Volleyball League as high as third and also took home the “Most Improved” award in 2016. Logan Webber spent four years playing men's volleyball at Cincinnati Christian University before joining Cornerstone. He is a fantastic athlete who received three First Team All-Conference nominations, Conference Player of the Year, and an NAIA All-American honor during his time at CCU. He also began his professional volleyball career after graduation in 2018, spending two years on the AVP Professional Beach Volleyball Tour in Southern California. Connect with Mark + Brandon: Mark Burik FB https://www.facebook.com/markburikbeachvolleyball/ Linkedin https://www.linkedin.com/in/mark-burik-693671102/ IG https://www.instagram.com/markburik/ Twitter https://twitter.com/MarkBurik Brandon Joyner IG https://www.instagram.com/joy_beachvb/ FB https://www.facebook.com/brandon.david.98229 Logan Webber IG https://www.instagram.com/loganmichaelwebber/ Become a Patron https://www.patreon.com/loganwebber RESOURCES / IMPORTANT LINKS: Registration for our April 3rd Training Camp in Florida https://www.betteratbeach.com/camps Get Some Better at Beach SWAG https://www.betteratbeach.com/shop 50+ Beach Volleyball Practice Plans https://www.betteratbeach.com/practiceplans Check out Full Ball Control and Serve Receive AT-HOME MasterClass https://www.betteratbeach.com/offers/LYbwq3yL Power, Accuracy and Aces - The Serving Master Class (INCLUDED IN OUR BEACH VOLLEYBALL MASTERY PROGRAM) https://www.BetteratBeach.com/coaching Book us for a CLINIC - https://www.betteratbeach.com/clinics LET'S GET SOCIAL!!! Be updated on Better at Beach on all our Platforms: Website: https://www.betteratbeach.com/ Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/betteratbeachvolleyball/ Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/betteratbeachvolleyball/ YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/c/BetteratBeach LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/betteratbeachvolleyball Podcast: https://www.betteratbeach.com/podcasts/get-better-at-beach-volleyball/

Chuck Proudfit is the Founder and President of SKILLSOURCE®, which delivers sustainable growth in sales, profits and people to client companies through a focus on winning strategies, strong leadership and healthy cultures. SKILLSOURCE® integrates consulting, training and coaching services to deliver “Business Building” through carefully assembled teams of talented contractors. Chuck developed his general management expertise at three industry-leading firms: The Procter & Gamble Company, The Ernest & Julio Gallo Winery, and LensCrafters Corporation. Chuck earned his academic degree from Harvard University, where he pioneered the school's organizational development curriculum. Chuck has held adjunct faculty positions at the Great Oaks Institute and Cincinnati Christian University. Chuck has been quoted, interviewed, profiled and published in wide-ranging media such as Success, Outcomes, Inspire, BRAVE, Lead, NOW, Half Time Report and Christianity Today magazines; the Business Courier, The Small Business Journal, The Cincinnati Enquirer, Daily Herald, The Chicago Tribune, and The Boston Globe; as well as Soap Box media, Success Radio, Street Insider, Cision, American Dreamers, Revelations Documentaries and Fox TV. Chuck is the founder of At Work on Purpose, a ministry guiding Christians to integrate faith and work. He serves on the faculty for Transform Our World, an alliance of marketplace and ministry leaders working together to make the world a better place. Chuck is an advisory board member with Self Sustaining Enterprises, which generates profits for philanthropy through entrepreneurism. Chuck has led SKILLSOURCE® to a TriState Success Award for exceptional business growth, a Torch Award commendation for business ethics from the Better Business Bureau, and a Perfect 10 Certified Corporate Culture designation. Chuck has received the Angel Award for community service from the Smith Family Foundation. Chuck holds a Black Belt in Tae Kwon Do under U.S. Olympic Coach Hong Kong Kim. He serves as an Elder at Grace Chapel near his home in Mason, Ohio, and periodically leads business people on missions trips to under-resourced countries. Chuck and his wife Jeryl are the proud parents of Aidan and Maya, both adopted as infants from South Korea.

ABOUT THIS EPISODE: This week our guest is Anne Wilson. We discuss Marvel rankings, as well as what it looks like to be a Kingdom-Minded Leader, rather than a Success-Minded Leader. ABOUT ANNE WILSON: Anne is a leader, youth pastor, writer, and Bible teacher with a passion to see this generation know and follow Jesus. She currently serves as the lead youth pastor at Traders Point Christian Church in Indianapolis, IN, and has served as at churches in North Carolina, Ohio, and Indiana, both in church communications and youth ministry. She holds a degree in biblical studies and general ministry from Cincinnati Christian University. Anne and her husband, Kyle, have two kids. Follow her on social media @annemwilson ABOUT WOMEN IN YOUTH MINISTRY: We are an organization that seeks to elevate the voices of women in a male-saturated field. Go to womeninyouthministry.com to explore our blog, join our Facebook community, and learn more about Heather Kenison and her amazing team of women who lead this organization. To listen to more podcasts from the Youth Cartel Podcast Network, click here!

Greg Miller was named the head men's basketball coach at Trinity International University in June of 2019. In his first season with the Trojans, Miller coached TIU to a 6-22 record, including 5-17 in CCAC play. His first year at the helm of the program included the selection of three players to the CCAC All-Academic Team, two NCCAA Scholar-Athletes, and the naming of Thadeous Johnson to the NCCAA All-North Central Region Team. Miller also helped make history as his Trojans defeated Calumet College of St. Joseph on February 22, 2020 in a 5OT road victory, which tied an NAIA Division II record for most overtime periods. Prior to coming to Trinity, Miller served two seasons as head men's basketball coach at Cincinnati Christian University in Cincinnati, Ohio from 2017-2019. Compiling a 31-31 record in two seasons, Miller became the youngest NAIA head basketball coach to win 25 games. Miller also oversaw a program where the team grade point average improved from 2.16 to 3.06. Miller played forward at Grace College and became both an NAIA and NCCAA All-American for the Lancers. He was named the NCCAA National Championships MVP after leading Grace to the national championship game, and also earned the NCCAA Pete Maravich Award for outstanding skill and Christian character. He graduated with 1,873 career points and 1,052 career rebounds. 2014 CoSIDA Second Team Academic All-America and Daktronics-NAIA Scholar Athlete. Miller graduated from Grace in 2014 with a pair of Bachelor's degrees in Business and Sports Administration.  After his playing career, Miller spent the next two seasons as a graduate assistant at Grace while pursuing a Master's degree in Business Administration, which he would earn in 2016. During this time, he worked as a graduate assistant for the men's basketball program and was the head coach of the junior varsity men's basketball team. Miller joined the Lancer's coaching staff full-time in 2016 as an assistant coach before taking over as head coach at Cincinnati Christian a year later. Greg currently resides in Chicago, Illinois with his wife Gabby.  

On the debut edition of Nobody’s Safe with Brady Laber, Brady’s guest is Nate Metz who is the voice of the Thomas More University Saints and the founder of the Stove Leg Media Podcast Network. Nate talks about “cold calling” local small colleges in the Greater Cincinnati/Northern Kentucky area trying to land a spot as a play-by-play announcer after graduating from college and working a regular job. After doing some work for the Cincinnati Christian University women’s basketball team he tells the story about receiving a call from Thomas More University. Nate joins the Thomas More basketball broadcast team in mid-season of the 2017-18 campaign. He goes into detail about the chemistry between himself and his first broadcast partner at Thomas More, former women’s basketball player Devin Beasley. He tells a great story about the time they first met each other which was after their first broadcast together had already begun. We go back to the beginning for Nate being born in Cincinnati. His mother Kim Beeson was a former disk jockey/on-air personalty at WUBE-FM (now known as B-105) in Cincinnati during the 1980’s and early 90’s. As a youngster, Nate’s family moves to Beloit, Wisconsin after his dad, a commercial airline pilot, is relocated. He explains how Beloit is more of an urban area than the dairy farms that most people reference when people talk about the state of Wisconsin. Nate talks about some of his early influences in the broadcast industry. Of course he states his mom but his next answer isn’t what you might expect out of a sports announcer. For an upcoming broadcaster Nate actually did not study broadcasting at first in college. He attended Berea College in Kentucky but his mom advised him to actually major in accounting. Nate talks about having to participate in a work-study program while at Berea that includes his first ever job that happened to be in food services. He eventually gets involved in the athletics department as a broadcaster thanks to a personal connection with someone else that was actually from Beloit. Nate talks about returning home each summer to work for the Beloit Snappers, Class-A affiliate of the Oakland A’s. He worked there with Frontier League Hall of Fame player/manager Fran Riordan who encouraged Nate to walk-on to the baseball team at Berea. Nate also talks about working in Beloit with Bill Czaja, a longtime play-by-play announcer in the Frontier League who was working for the Snappers as the Director of Marketing and Promotions. This of course sparks a conversation about the unusual promotions you see in minor league baseball. After graduating from Berea, Nate settled in Cincinnati, working a "real job” at insurance company followed by an accounting job while trying to figure out a strategy to land work as a broadcaster. Nate goes into more detail about his first season working for Thomas More that included a run by the women’s basketball team to the NCAA Division-III national championship game. Nate and Brady then talk about starting to work together as a broadcast team calling Thomas More football games for the 2018 season. Nate also talks about calling all Thomas More varsity sporting events including ones that he had never had experience in calling before. Nate and Brady talk about teaming up for the Thomas More women’s basketball run to the 2019 NCAA D-III National Championship. Nate closes out the conversation talking his venture as an entrepreneur founding his own podcast distribution company called Stove Leg Media. You can follow Brady Laber on Twitter @BradyLaber1 (https://twitter.com/BradyLaber1) please use the hashtag #NobodysSafe You can follow Nate Metz on Twitter @NateMetz (https://twitter.com/NateMetz) For more information on Stove Leg Media (https://www.stoveleg.com) go the website StoveLeg.com or send an email to Podcasts@stoveleg.com You can follow Thomas More University Athletics on its Official Twitter account @tmusaints (https://twitter.com/tmusaints) please use the #LetsGoSaints Intro music for the podcast was provided by bensoud.com (https://www.bensound.com)

In this week's episode of Locked In with Coach RB, join Randy as he visits with Max Pendery, a graduate of the Elite Coach Mentoring program, and currently an Assistant Coach at East Central University in Ada, Oklahoma. They discuss the journey Max has been on in his coaching career so far. Starting as a student, Max worked his way to a Graduate Assistant position at the University of Arkansas under Head Coach Eric Musselman. Tune in to learn about the strategies and perseverance required to make it in the college coaching industry. Topics: -1:10 Introduction -2:50 Max's time spent in the Elite Coach Mentoring program -6:33 First job at Cincinnati Christian University -8:08 Importance of working camps to grow your network -10:03 Even with a small network, you can gain valuable connections in the industry -10:56 Second job at Ashland University -12:10 Importance of learning by doing -14:45 Third job at The University of Arkansas -16:14 The two things Max looks for in the next job -19:05 Working with Coach Musselman -20:48 Every day is an interview-fourth job at East Central University -24:04 1, 2, & 3 degree contacts to grow your network -26:55 When you shake someone's hand, look through their eyes and you'll see thousands of people -28:02 People hire people they know-or somebody that they trust knows -31:18 212° is the boiling point -33:40 Parting Shot Help the Podcast Grow: As we build this podcast following please take the time to support Locked In with Coach RB. The goal is to openly share information and resources on how to coach college basketball based on 20+ years in the industry. Tell your friends about us. Give us a shout out on social media. Give us a five-star review wherever you listen to podcasts. Contact Information: Email: rb@coachrb.com Phone: (515) 450-1966 --- This episode is sponsored by · Anchor: The easiest way to make a podcast. https://anchor.fm/app Support this podcast: https://anchor.fm/coachrb/support

JoJo Josiah Oetjen AKA JoJo is a former collegiate basketball player at Cincinnati Christian University. Originally from Indiana, he interned with Pacers Gaming during season one of the NBA 2K League. JoJo was picked by T-Wolves Gaming in the third round of the 2019 2K League Draft. Josiah Oetjen Hometown: McCordsville, INCountry: USA2018 Draft:2019 Draft: 2019 3rd Round Pick T-Wolves Gaming2020 Draft: Player retained by T-Wolves Gaming

Pat West joins us on the show. Pat was a multi-sport athlete in college and has worn several coaching hats since. He has coached at Cooper High School, Dayton High School, Cincinnati Christian University, and a brief stint with the Kings Hammer Soccer Club. Topics include:- Key coaches that built into him growing up- Making it as a college athlete without a ton of resources.- The impact of a coach that ripples across a whole community. Support the show (http://www.nkyfca.org/donate)

Original grace* or original sin? Which one are we born with? This question - and its answer - is the root of many of the differences between denominations. And Romans 5:12-21 is the passage of Scripture most often used to defend the teaching of original sin. But what if that common understanding is wrong? How does that effect our understanding of grace? What Is Original Sin? Original sin is the belief and teaching that all babies are born sinners and are born depraved. The extent of this depravity at birth - either partial or total - is also a major distinction among denominations. Some believe babies are born only partially depraved and retain a certain ability to respond to God's grace once they are older. Others teach that babies are born totally depraved and completely incapable of responding to God positively in any way, shape, or form. And then there are those between these views. How a particular denomination answers the question also determines their practice of baptizing infants or not. Those who accept total depravity often baptize infants for salvation. Others teach that God "elects" some babies and condemns others. Still others don't practice infant baptism and believe only mature persons of a certain age/comprehension should receive baptism. All of these practices and variations hinge - to great extent - on interpretations of Romans 5:12-21. Original Grace* The real question is, what is Paul's point in drawing out the comparison between Adam and Jesus? What is he emphasizing and why? Missing the point is what has led to a great many false assumptions and false teachings. Paul's comparison has one sole purpose: to point out how the cross of Christ has overcome every effect of Adam's first sin. Whatever Adam's sin did bring or potentially could have brought upon mankind, Jesus has overcome. In effect - in actuality - the cross and God's grace through it has negated all the negative effects of Adam's sin on humanity. Therefore, every person is born, was born, and will be born with original grace. (*The phrase original grace was coined by Dr. Jack Cottrell, Professor of Theology, Cincinnati Christian University, retired.) ____________________________________ Study Romans from the Beginning - Click Here

The book of Romans calls on us to be transformed by the renewing of our minds. In this workshop we will be exploring the implications of that call on the manner in which we exercise leadership. These recordings are from the 2019 Spring Conference at Boise Bible College. This year's theme was "Bridge the Gap: Spirit Mindedness". To learn more about Spring Conference and Boise Bible College, see www.boisebible.edu! Professor and Academic Dean Chuck Faber has worked at Boise Bible College since 1980. He earned his Bachelor's in Preaching and then, a M.Div from Cincinnati Christian University. He also serves on the commission for ABHE to analyze accreditations for other Christian higher education institutions. Lastly, he's participated in the management teams of two church plants and served as an elder. Intro Music: Motivate Me by Mixaund https://mixaund.bandcamp.com

In this episode of Movers & Shakers Gino & Josh interview John Crouch. John serves as Vice President of Investment and Strategic Planning for a Nashville, TN based commercial real estate firm. Prior to his time in commercial real estate, John worked as a Senior Financial Analyst at Cigna and a tax professional in KPMG’s New York office. He received his undergraduate degree from Cincinnati Christian University and an MBA from the Fordham University Graduate School of Business in New York.   John began his real estate portfolio with a self-funded 32-unit property in the St. Louis, MO market. The property has completed a significant capital budget program and is now enjoying increased rental income as a result. Shortly thereafter, John syndicated a 122-unit property north of Indianapolis, IN. Today, John is focused on expanding his knowledge and expertise within the multifamily asset class. In his spare time, he enjoys spending time with his growing family, underwriting potential deals, and becoming a general aviation pilot.   http://bit.ly/JohnCredBook

*DISCLAIMER* This episode contains some adult themes and is not intended for little ears.    Treatment for Sexual Issues with Certified Sex Therapist, Emma Schmidt   Philippians‬ ‭4:6-7‬ ‭(NLT‬‬) “Don't worry about anything; instead, pray about everything. Tell God what you need, and thank him for all he has done. Then you will experience God's peace, which exceeds anything we can understand. His peace will guard your hearts and minds as you live in Christ Jesus.”   Emma Schmidt, MA is a professional counselor, certified sex therapist, and certified clinical sexual addiction specialist licensed in the State of Ohio. She is a graduate of Cincinnati Christian University's Master of Arts in Counseling program. Emma received her sex therapy education at the Institute for Sexual Wholeness at Richmont Graduate University in Atlanta, Georgia. Emma is certified through both The American Association of Sexuality Educators, Counselors and Therapists (AASECT) and The American Board of Christian Sex Therapists (ABCST).   She has specialized training in treating sexual addiction, trauma-focused cognitive behavioral therapy, sex therapy, victims' advocacy, crisis intervention and advanced training in emotion-focused therapy for couples. She earned her Bachelor of Science in Psychology and Biblical Studies from Cincinnati Christian University. Emma has two years of doctoral training from Union Institute and University's PsyD Clinical Psychology program. She currently owns a group practice, Emma Schmidt & Associates, Sex + Relationship Therapy, in Cincinnati, Ohio.   Emma's Website    Connect with Emma on facebook: Emma Schmidt & Assoc., Sex + Relationship Therapy   Instagram: @emmaschmidtandassociates   Thank You to Our Sponsor: Leman Property Management   Connect with The Savvy Sauce on Facebook or Instagram or Our Website   Check out our newly launched Patreon Page to find out how to gain access to additional podcasts and freebies!   Please help us out by sharing this episode with a friend, leaving a 5-star rating and review, and subscribing to this podcast!   Gospel Scripture: (all NIV)   Romans 3:23 “for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,”   Romans 3:24 “and are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus.”   Romans 3:25 (a) “God presented him as a sacrifice of atonement, through faith in his blood.”    Hebrews 9:22 (b) “without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness.”    Romans 5:8 “But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us.”    Romans 5:11 “Not only is this so, but we also rejoice in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received reconciliation.”    John 3:16 “For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.”   Romans 10:9 “That if you confess with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.”    Luke 15:10 says “In the same way, I tell you, there is rejoicing in the presence of the angels of God over one sinner who repents.”   Romans 8:1 “Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus”   Ephesians 1:13–14 “And you also were included in Christ when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation. Having believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God's possession- to the praise of his glory.”   Ephesians 1:15–23 “For this reason, ever since I heard about your faith in the Lord Jesus and your love for all the saints, I have not stopped giving thanks for you, remembering you in my prayers. I keep asking that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the glorious Father, may give you the spirit of wisdom and revelation, so that you may know him better. I pray also that the eyes of your heart may be enlightened in order that you may know the hope to which he has called you, the riches of his glorious inheritance in the saints, and his incomparably great power for us who believe. That power is like the working of his mighty strength, which he exerted in Christ when he raised him from the dead and seated him at his right hand in the heavenly realms, far above all rule and authority, power and dominion, and every title that can be given, not only in the present age but also in the one to come. And God placed all things under his feet and appointed him to be head over everything for the church, which is his body, the fullness of him who fills everything in every way.”   Ephesians 2:8–10 “For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith – and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God – not by works, so that no one can boast. For we are God‘s workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.“   Ephesians 2:13 “But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far away have been brought near through the blood of Christ.“   Philippians 1:6 “being confident of this, that he who began a good work in you will carry it on to completion until the day of Christ Jesus.”

My guest is Mandy Smith. She's the lead pastor of the University Christian Church in Cincinnati, OH. We discuss the lectionary passages for the Twenty First Sunday after Pentecost (B): Job 23:1-9, 16-17, Hebrews 4:12-16, and Mark 10:17-31. Mandy is a regular contributor to CT Pastors and the author of Making a Mess and Meeting God (https://www.amazon.com/Making-Mess-Meeting-God-Experiments/dp/0784723923), and most recently The Vulnerable Pastor (https://www.amazon.com/Vulnerable-Pastor-Limitations-Empower-Ministry/dp/0830841237/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1523410420&sr=1-1&keywords=the+vulnerable+pastor&dpID=51s4Het-oLL&preST=_SY291_BO1,204,203,200_QL40_&dpSrc=srch). She is also the creator of The Collect, a citywide trash-to-art project. Mandy and her husband, Jamie, a New Testament professor at Cincinnati Christian University, live with their two kids in a little house where the teapot is always warm. Special Guest: Mandy Smith.

My guest is Mandy Smith. She's the lead pastor of the University Christian Church in Cincinnati, OH. We discuss the lectionary passages for Pentecost (B): 1 Samuel 3:1-10, 2 Corinthians 4:5-12 and Mark 2:23-3:6. Mandy is a regular contributor to CT Pastors and the author of Making a Mess and Meeting God (https://www.amazon.com/Making-Mess-Meeting-God-Experiments/dp/0784723923), and most recently The Vulnerable Pastor (https://www.amazon.com/Vulnerable-Pastor-Limitations-Empower-Ministry/dp/0830841237/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1523410420&sr=1-1&keywords=the+vulnerable+pastor&dpID=51s4Het-oLL&preST=_SY291_BO1,204,203,200_QL40_&dpSrc=srch). She is also the creator of The Collect, a citywide trash-to-art project. Mandy and her husband, Jamie, a New Testament professor at Cincinnati Christian University, live with their two kids in a little house where the teapot is always warm. Special Guest: Mandy Smith.

My guest is Mandy Smith. She's the lead pastor of the University Christian Church in Cincinnati, OH. We discuss the lectionary passages for Christ the King Sunday: Acts 3:12-19, 1 John 3:1-7 and Luke 24:36b-48. Mandy is a regular contributor to CT Pastors and the author of Making a Mess and Meeting God (https://www.amazon.com/Making-Mess-Meeting-God-Experiments/dp/0784723923), and most recently The Vulnerable Pastor (https://www.amazon.com/Vulnerable-Pastor-Limitations-Empower-Ministry/dp/0830841237/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1523410420&sr=1-1&keywords=the+vulnerable+pastor&dpID=51s4Het-oLL&preST=_SY291_BO1,204,203,200_QL40_&dpSrc=srch). She is also the creator of The Collect, a citywide trash-to-art project. Mandy and her husband, Jamie, a New Testament professor at Cincinnati Christian University, live with their two kids in a little house where the teapot is always warm. Special Guest: Mandy Smith.

Dee Ann Turner is Vice President, Sustainability for Chick-fil-A, where she began her career more than 30 years ago. She previously served as the Vice President, Enterprise Social Responsibility for two years, the Vice President, Corporate Talent for three years, the Vice President, Talent for five years and the Vice President, Human Resources for eight years. She has played an intricate role in growing Chick-fil-A’s unique and highly regarded culture while overseeing recruitment, selection, and retention of corporate staff and the recruitment and selection of Chick-fil-A Franchisees. Dee Ann’s insightful knowledge and applicable tools to building an incredible and influential company culture are revealed in her book, It’s My Pleasure: The Impact of Extraordinary Talent and A Compelling Culture. Dee Ann attended Cincinnati Christian University in Cincinnati, Ohio, majoring in Journalism and Christian Education. She later completed her education at Clayton State University in Atlanta with a degree in Management. She received further certifications at Goizueta School of Business at Emory University, Darden School of Business at the University of Virginia, Kenan-Flagler Business School at UNC Chapel Hill, and she completed the prestigious Advanced Management Program at Harvard Business School.

My guest is Mandy Smith. She's the lead pastor of the University Christian Church in Cincinnati, OH. We discuss the lectionary passages for Christ the King Sunday: Ezekiel 34:11-16, 20-24; Ephesians 1:15-23 and Matthew 25:31-46. Mandy is a regular contributor to CT Pastors and the author of Making a Mess and Meeting God, and most recently The Vulnerable Pastor. She is also the creator of The Collect, a citywide trash-to-art project. Mandy and her husband, Jamie, a New Testament professor at Cincinnati Christian University, live with their two kids in a little house where the teapot is always warm. Special Guest: Mandy Smith.

My guest is Mandy Smith. She's lead pastor of University Christian Church in Cincinnati, OH. We discuss the lectionary passages for the Seventeenth Sunday after Pentecost (A): Exodus 32:1-14, Philippians 4:1-9 and Matthew 22:1-14. Mandy is a regular contributor to CT Pastors and the author of Making a Mess and Meeting God, and most recently The Vulnerable Pastor. She is also the creator of The Collect, a citywide trash-to-art project. Mandy and her husband, Jamie, a New Testament professor at Cincinnati Christian University, live with their two kids in a little house where the teapot is always warm. To find out more about She Leads you can go to: http://www.missioalliance.org/sheleads/. Special Guest: Mandy Smith.

Dave Stone’s passion for excellence and sharing his faith with others drives him in his role as senior minister at Southeast Christian Church. Stone achieved his senior minister status due to his optimistic vision for the future of the church. Identified as a “mega-church,” Southeast Christian is Kentucky’s largest church with 17,000 people in weekly attendance. Prior to his great achievements at Southeast, Stone attended Cincinnati Christian University. He is also a published author of the book “Refining your Style.” Known for his humor and caring nature, Stone is passionate about connecting people to Jesus and one another.

Q What are the emerging trends in small group ministry? How are millennials viewing small group ministry? What are wholistic small groups? If you or anyone on your team are asking these questions, then you’ve come to the right place! Mike Mack has been involved in discipleship and small group ministry for more than 25 years, most recently at Northeast Christian Church in Louisville, KY. He founded SmallGroups.com in 1996 and has led small group training seminars across the US as well as in Canada and Brazil. He is a consultant and leads a ministry called small group leadership and is the author of eight books about small groups and discipleship, most recently, “World’s Greatest Small Group.” He is currently an adjunct professor at Cincinnati Christian University and teaches a class on Small Group Ministry & Discipling. In this month’s “Group Talk” podcast, host Carolyn Taketa discusses the following topics with Michael in this exclusive interview… How millennials are viewing small groups in today's culture How to leverage the connections you already have in your life to do groups Train and trust: how to have a balanced leadership structure in ministry Wholistic groups and emerging trends in small group ministry  How to have the worlds greatest small group Just click the play button at the top of this post to enjoy this insightful discussion! To subscribe to our Group Talk Podcast, click HERE

Bob Hostetler is an award-winning writer, editor, pastor, and speaker from southwestern Ohio. His thirty books, which include The Bone Box and American Idols (The Worship of the American Dream), have sold millions of copies. He has co-authored eleven books with Josh McDowell, including the best-selling Right from Wrong (What You Need to Know to Help Youth Make Right Choices), and the award-winning Don't Check Your Brains at the Door. He has won two Gold Medallion Awards, four Ohio Associated Press awards, and an Amy Foundation Award, among others. Bob is a frequent speaker at churches, conferences, and retreats. Bob was ordained to the ministry in 1980 by The Salvation Army. He and his wife, the lovely Robin, served in The Salvation Army from 1980-1992. In addition to his training for ministry with The Salvation Army, he earned degrees in English Bible from Cincinnati Christian University and English Communications from Bloomfield College. In 2000, Bob (with his wife) helped to co-found Cobblestone Community Church in Oxford, Ohio. He has served that church in leadership and teaching pastor roles. He has been a disc jockey, pastor, magazine editor, freelance book editor, and (with his wife Robin) a foster parent to ten boys (though not all at once). Bob and Robin have two adult children, Aubrey and Aaron, son-in-law Kevin and daughter-in-law Nina, and grandchildren Miles, Mia, Calleigh, and Ryder. They live in Hamilton, Ohio.

Bob Hostetler is an award-winning writer, editor, pastor, and speaker from southwestern Ohio. His thirty books, which include The Bone Box and American Idols (The Worship of the American Dream), have sold millions of copies. He has co-authored eleven books with Josh McDowell, including the best-selling Right from Wrong (What You Need to Know to Help Youth Make Right Choices), and the award-winning Don't Check Your Brains at the Door. He has won two Gold Medallion Awards, four Ohio Associated Press awards, and an Amy Foundation Award, among others. Bob is a frequent speaker at churches, conferences, and retreats. Bob was ordained to the ministry in 1980 by The Salvation Army. He and his wife, the lovely Robin, served in The Salvation Army from 1980-1992. In addition to his training for ministry with The Salvation Army, he earned degrees in English Bible from Cincinnati Christian University and English Communications from Bloomfield College. In 2000, Bob (with his wife) helped to co-found Cobblestone Community Church in Oxford, Ohio. He has served that church in leadership and teaching pastor roles. He has been a disc jockey, pastor, magazine editor, freelance book editor, and (with his wife Robin) a foster parent to ten boys (though not all at once). Bob and Robin have two adult children, Aubrey and Aaron, son-in-law Kevin and daughter-in-law Nina, and grandchildren Miles, Mia, Calleigh, and Ryder. They live in Hamilton, Ohio.

Bob Hostetler is an award-winning writer, editor, pastor, and speaker from southwestern Ohio. His thirty books, which include The Bone Box and American Idols (The Worship of the American Dream), have sold millions of copies. He has co-authored eleven books with Josh McDowell, including the best-selling Right from Wrong (What You Need to Know to Help Youth Make Right Choices), and the award-winning Don't Check Your Brains at the Door. He has won two Gold Medallion Awards, four Ohio Associated Press awards, and an Amy Foundation Award, among others. Bob is a frequent speaker at churches, conferences, and retreats. Bob was ordained to the ministry in 1980 by The Salvation Army. He and his wife, the lovely Robin, served in The Salvation Army from 1980-1992. In addition to his training for ministry with The Salvation Army, he earned degrees in English Bible from Cincinnati Christian University and English Communications from Bloomfield College. In 2000, Bob (with his wife) helped to co-found Cobblestone Community Church in Oxford, Ohio. He has served that church in leadership and teaching pastor roles. He has been a disc jockey, pastor, magazine editor, freelance book editor, and (with his wife Robin) a foster parent to ten boys (though not all at once). Bob and Robin have two adult children, Aubrey and Aaron, son-in-law Kevin and daughter-in-law Nina, and grandchildren Miles, Mia, Calleigh, and Ryder. They live in Hamilton, Ohio.

Bob Hostetler is an award-winning writer, editor, pastor, and speaker from southwestern Ohio. His thirty books, which include The Bone Box and American Idols (The Worship of the American Dream), have sold millions of copies. He has co-authored eleven books with Josh McDowell, including the best-selling Right from Wrong (What You Need to Know to Help Youth Make Right Choices), and the award-winning Don't Check Your Brains at the Door. He has won two Gold Medallion Awards, four Ohio Associated Press awards, and an Amy Foundation Award, among others. Bob is a frequent speaker at churches, conferences, and retreats. Bob was ordained to the ministry in 1980 by The Salvation Army. He and his wife, the lovely Robin, served in The Salvation Army from 1980-1992. In addition to his training for ministry with The Salvation Army, he earned degrees in English Bible from Cincinnati Christian University and English Communications from Bloomfield College. In 2000, Bob (with his wife) helped to co-found Cobblestone Community Church in Oxford, Ohio. He has served that church in leadership and teaching pastor roles. He has been a disc jockey, pastor, magazine editor, freelance book editor, and (with his wife Robin) a foster parent to ten boys (though not all at once). Bob and Robin have two adult children, Aubrey and Aaron, son-in-law Kevin and daughter-in-law Nina, and grandchildren Miles, Mia, Calleigh, and Ryder. They live in Hamilton, Ohio.

Bob Hostetler is an award-winning writer, editor, pastor, and speaker from southwestern Ohio. His thirty books, which include The Bone Box and American Idols (The Worship of the American Dream), have sold millions of copies. He has co-authored eleven books with Josh McDowell, including the best-selling Right from Wrong (What You Need to Know to Help Youth Make Right Choices), and the award-winning Don't Check Your Brains at the Door. He has won two Gold Medallion Awards, four Ohio Associated Press awards, and an Amy Foundation Award, among others. Bob is a frequent speaker at churches, conferences, and retreats. Bob was ordained to the ministry in 1980 by The Salvation Army. He and his wife, the lovely Robin, served in The Salvation Army from 1980-1992. In addition to his training for ministry with The Salvation Army, he earned degrees in English Bible from Cincinnati Christian University and English Communications from Bloomfield College. In 2000, Bob (with his wife) helped to co-found Cobblestone Community Church in Oxford, Ohio. He has served that church in leadership and teaching pastor roles. He has been a disc jockey, pastor, magazine editor, freelance book editor, and (with his wife Robin) a foster parent to ten boys (though not all at once). Bob and Robin have two adult children, Aubrey and Aaron, son-in-law Kevin and daughter-in-law Nina, and grandchildren Miles, Mia, Calleigh, and Ryder. They live in Hamilton, Ohio.

Bob Hostetler is an award-winning writer, editor, pastor, and speaker from southwestern Ohio. His thirty books, which include The Bone Box and American Idols (The Worship of the American Dream), have sold millions of copies. He has co-authored eleven books with Josh McDowell, including the best-selling Right from Wrong (What You Need to Know to Help Youth Make Right Choices), and the award-winning Don't Check Your Brains at the Door. He has won two Gold Medallion Awards, four Ohio Associated Press awards, and an Amy Foundation Award, among others. Bob is a frequent speaker at churches, conferences, and retreats. Bob was ordained to the ministry in 1980 by The Salvation Army. He and his wife, the lovely Robin, served in The Salvation Army from 1980-1992. In addition to his training for ministry with The Salvation Army, he earned degrees in English Bible from Cincinnati Christian University and English Communications from Bloomfield College. In 2000, Bob (with his wife) helped to co-found Cobblestone Community Church in Oxford, Ohio. He has served that church in leadership and teaching pastor roles. He has been a disc jockey, pastor, magazine editor, freelance book editor, and (with his wife Robin) a foster parent to ten boys (though not all at once). Bob and Robin have two adult children, Aubrey and Aaron, son-in-law Kevin and daughter-in-law Nina, and grandchildren Miles, Mia, Calleigh, and Ryder. They live in Hamilton, Ohio.

Bob Hostetler is an award-winning writer, editor, pastor, and speaker from southwestern Ohio. His thirty books, which include The Bone Box and American Idols (The Worship of the American Dream), have sold millions of copies. He has co-authored eleven books with Josh McDowell, including the best-selling Right from Wrong (What You Need to Know to Help Youth Make Right Choices), and the award-winning Don't Check Your Brains at the Door. He has won two Gold Medallion Awards, four Ohio Associated Press awards, and an Amy Foundation Award, among others. Bob is a frequent speaker at churches, conferences, and retreats. Bob was ordained to the ministry in 1980 by The Salvation Army. He and his wife, the lovely Robin, served in The Salvation Army from 1980-1992. In addition to his training for ministry with The Salvation Army, he earned degrees in English Bible from Cincinnati Christian University and English Communications from Bloomfield College. In 2000, Bob (with his wife) helped to co-found Cobblestone Community Church in Oxford, Ohio. He has served that church in leadership and teaching pastor roles. He has been a disc jockey, pastor, magazine editor, freelance book editor, and (with his wife Robin) a foster parent to ten boys (though not all at once). Bob and Robin have two adult children, Aubrey and Aaron, son-in-law Kevin and daughter-in-law Nina, and grandchildren Miles, Mia, Calleigh, and Ryder. They live in Hamilton, Ohio.

Bob Hostetler is an award-winning writer, editor, pastor, and speaker from southwestern Ohio. His thirty books, which include The Bone Box and American Idols (The Worship of the American Dream), have sold millions of copies. He has co-authored eleven books with Josh McDowell, including the best-selling Right from Wrong (What You Need to Know to Help Youth Make Right Choices), and the award-winning Don't Check Your Brains at the Door. He has won two Gold Medallion Awards, four Ohio Associated Press awards, and an Amy Foundation Award, among others. Bob is a frequent speaker at churches, conferences, and retreats. Bob was ordained to the ministry in 1980 by The Salvation Army. He and his wife, the lovely Robin, served in The Salvation Army from 1980-1992. In addition to his training for ministry with The Salvation Army, he earned degrees in English Bible from Cincinnati Christian University and English Communications from Bloomfield College. In 2000, Bob (with his wife) helped to co-found Cobblestone Community Church in Oxford, Ohio. He has served that church in leadership and teaching pastor roles. He has been a disc jockey, pastor, magazine editor, freelance book editor, and (with his wife Robin) a foster parent to ten boys (though not all at once). Bob and Robin have two adult children, Aubrey and Aaron, son-in-law Kevin and daughter-in-law Nina, and grandchildren Miles, Mia, Calleigh, and Ryder. They live in Hamilton, Ohio.

Paul Brunsman interviews Jonathan Espacio, national worker from the Dominican Republic studying at Cincinnati Christian University, during the 2014 Lake James School of Missions

Rebecca Waters draws on her role as a wife, mother, and grandmother as well as her vast experience as an educator and researcher for her writing. She and her husband, Tom, have been married for over forty years and have three grown daughters. Her daughters are all married and mothers themselves to five precious little ones. Rebecca taught in the public school system for nineteen years, kindergarten through grade two. After receiving her doctorate from the University of Cincinnati, Rebecca taught college students seeking to be teachers at Cincinnati Christian University for the next fourteen years. Rebecca's first novel, Breathing on Her Own, was released on March 24, 2014 by Lighthouse of the Carolinas. It is available on Amazon.com in both print and Kindle versions and is also available through Barnes & Noble. 

Rebecca Waters draws on her role as a wife, mother, and grandmother as well as her vast experience as an educator and researcher for her writing. She and her husband, Tom, have been married for over forty years and have three grown daughters. Her daughters are all married and mothers themselves to five precious little ones. Rebecca taught in the public school system for nineteen years, kindergarten through grade two. After receiving her doctorate from the University of Cincinnati, Rebecca taught college students seeking to be teachers at Cincinnati Christian University for the next fourteen years. Rebecca’s first novel, Breathing on Her Own, was released on March 24, 2014 by Lighthouse of the Carolinas. It is available on Amazon.com in both print and Kindle versions and is also available through Barnes & Noble. 

Join us this week on Christian Devotions SPEAK UP! when Scott interviews two authors. Nivine Richie is a wife, mother, and university professor. She has had the privilege of leading many ladies' Bible studies or co-leading small groups with her husband, Pat, over the years. She is involved in women's ministry in her local church and in the Christian faculty organization on campus. Her first book, Enduring Faith: An 8-week Devotional Study of the Book of Hebrews is published by Lighthouse Publishing of the Carolinas and is available on Amazon. Rebecca Waters draws on her role as a wife, mother, and grandmother as well as her vast experience as an educator and researcher for her writing. She and her husband, Tom, have been married for over forty years and have three grown daughters. Her daughters are all married and mothers themselves to five precious little ones. Rebecca taught in the public school system for nineteen years, kindergarten through grade two. After receiving her doctorate from the University of Cincinnati, Rebecca taught college students seeking to be teachers at Cincinnati Christian University for the next fourteen years. Rebecca's first novel, Breathing on Her Own, was released on March 24, 2014 by Lighthouse of the Carolinas. It is available on Amazon.com in both print and Kindle versions and is also available through Barnes & Noble. 

Join us this week on Christian Devotions SPEAK UP! when Scott interviews two authors. Nivine Richie is a wife, mother, and university professor. She has had the privilege of leading many ladies’ Bible studies or co-leading small groups with her husband, Pat, over the years. She is involved in women’s ministry in her local church and in the Christian faculty organization on campus. Her first book, Enduring Faith: An 8-week Devotional Study of the Book of Hebrews is published by Lighthouse Publishing of the Carolinas and is available on Amazon. Rebecca Waters draws on her role as a wife, mother, and grandmother as well as her vast experience as an educator and researcher for her writing. She and her husband, Tom, have been married for over forty years and have three grown daughters. Her daughters are all married and mothers themselves to five precious little ones. Rebecca taught in the public school system for nineteen years, kindergarten through grade two. After receiving her doctorate from the University of Cincinnati, Rebecca taught college students seeking to be teachers at Cincinnati Christian University for the next fourteen years. Rebecca’s first novel, Breathing on Her Own, was released on March 24, 2014 by Lighthouse of the Carolinas. It is available on Amazon.com in both print and Kindle versions and is also available through Barnes & Noble. 

Over the next five weeks we have five different speakers bringing us God's Word. This week Patrick Garcia, from Cincinnati Christian University brings our message.