Podcast appearances and mentions of henry louis gates

Toay we're welcoming back a very special guest: executive producer, entrepreneur, and educator Kristen Carter! If you haven't already, make sure to check out episode 156 for Kristen's powerful story on how she got her start in media and carved her unique path in the industry. Since we last spoke, Kristen has continued to break creative ground — most recently serving as Showrunner and Executive Producer for the PBS gospel concert special GOSPEL Live! Presented by Henry Louis Gates, Jr., featuring performances from John Legend, Erica Campbell, and Anthony Hamilton. In this episode, Kristen opens up about navigating unplanned life changes during the COVID-19 pandemic, the emotional toll of loss, and the challenges of working in the media industry. She also shares her powerful decision to choose joy, and how that intentional choice led her to deeper healing, purpose, and transformational growth. We also discuss: Embracing new creative territories The impact of loss on one's dreams Letting go of toxic love and its lasting effects The importance of mentorship and community Trusting your magic and saying YES to joy Kristen's vulnerability and strength remind us that sometimes, the key to moving forward is letting go of what no longer serves us. Her journey will inspire you to keep dreaming — and to do it with intention and heart. Let's get into it. JOIN THE WEEKLY DREAMS IN DRIVE NEWSLETTER:www.dreamsindrive.com/join FIND KRISTEN ON: Instagram: @kristenvcarter FIND RANA ON SOCIAL: Instagram:  @rainshineluv @dreamsindriveWeb: www.dreamsindrive.com FIND DREAMS IN DRIVE ON:Instagram: http://www.instagram.com/dreamsindrive Twitter: http://twitter.com/dreamsindrive Web: https://www.dreamsindrive.com

In this episode, Henry Louis Gates and Robert P. George share a powerful conversation about their unlikely beginnings in West Virginia. Recorded in December 2024, they reflect on their childhoods, the challenges they faced, and the experiences that shaped their paths to becoming the influential figures they are today. Their discussion offers a unique perspective […]

In this episode, Henry Louis Gates and Robert P. George share a powerful conversation about their unlikely beginnings in West Virginia. Recorded in December 2024, they reflect on their childhoods, the challenges they faced, and the experiences that shaped their paths to becoming the influential figures they are today. Their discussion offers a unique perspective on overcoming adversity, the power of place, and the importance of intellectual curiosity. Tune in for an inspiring and personal dialogue that highlights how humble beginnings can lead to extraordinary futures. Madison's Notes is the podcast of Princeton University's James Madison Program in American Ideals and Institutions. Contributions to and/or sponsorship of any speaker does not constitute departmental or institutional endorsement of the specific program, speakers or views presented. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices Support our show by becoming a premium member! https://newbooksnetwork.supportingcast.fm/new-books-network

In this episode, Henry Louis Gates and Robert P. George share a powerful conversation about their unlikely beginnings in West Virginia. Recorded in December 2024, they reflect on their childhoods, the challenges they faced, and the experiences that shaped their paths to becoming the influential figures they are today. Their discussion offers a unique perspective on overcoming adversity, the power of place, and the importance of intellectual curiosity. Tune in for an inspiring and personal dialogue that highlights how humble beginnings can lead to extraordinary futures. Madison's Notes is the podcast of Princeton University's James Madison Program in American Ideals and Institutions. Contributions to and/or sponsorship of any speaker does not constitute departmental or institutional endorsement of the specific program, speakers or views presented. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices Support our show by becoming a premium member! https://newbooksnetwork.supportingcast.fm/american-studies

These are times that call on a radical belief in oneself and their community. Back in October just shortly before the US Election, I interviewed Rev. Dr. Andrew Wilkes about his book Plenty Good Room, which invites the Black Church to think beyond electon cycles and go to the root of how it can be a radical force in not just American politics, but the wellbeing of all of us as Earthlings.Yeah, timely. Unfortunately, because of the recent US Election and regime change, it took me a minute to prepare this episode for you, but it's here now and ready. Plus, my beloved partner Les Henderson joins me for a moment of reflection on faith and will be joining me in our next few episodes.Here's Rev. Dr. Wilkes's bioReverend Andrew Wilkes, Ph.D., is a pastor, political scientist, writer, and contemplative. He is the co-lead, co-founding pastor of the Double Love Experience Church in Brooklyn, New York, and the former Executive Director of the Drum Major Institute, a social change organization founded by Rev. Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. Dr. Wilkes is a 2022 inductee into the Martin Luther King Board of Preachers at Morehouse College and a proud alum of Hampton University, Princeton Theological Seminary, CUNY Graduate Center, and the Coro Public Affairs Fellowship. He is the author of Freedom Notes: Reflections on Faith, Justice, and the Possibility of Democracy; co-author of Psalms for Black Lives; and author of Plenty Good Room: Co-Creating an Economy of Enough for All. His writing and voice have been featured in the New York Times, Washington Post, Essence Magazine, Stanford Social Innovation Review, and Dr. Henry Louis Gates' PBS Gospel series. Dr. Wilkes is the elated husband of Rev. Dr. Gabby Cudjoe-Wilkes and lives in Brooklyn, New York.Watch PBS's The Black Church Herehttps://www.pbs.org/show/black-church/Read my recent newsletter spelling out the seven principles of Defying Gentrification (since i forgot to put them in the episodehttps://theblackurbanist.com/this-is-my-house-and-in-it-i-get-to-defy-gentrification-my-way-all-day-every-day/Purchase from Kristen's Bookshop.org store and support the podcast! And merch and crafting classes via www.kristpattern.comNever miss an episode, subscribe to our Substack , LinkedIn, Wordpress, or PattreonYou can also find Kristen @blackurbanist or @kristpattern.

This Black History Month, PBS is airing a four-part documentary on The Great Migration, hosted by Dr. Henry Louis Gates, Jr. The first part of "Great Migrations: A People on the Move" aired last night, and directors Julia Marchesi and Nailah Ife Sims discuss the series and how the Great Migration continues to play out in our cities today. Check your local PBS listings for specific broadcast dates.This segment is guest-hosted by Tiffany Hansen.

"Healthcare attracts a lot of good people, but it also attracts a lot of morally unscrupulous people who consistently demonstrate their willingness to do horribly unethical stuff to make a lot of money."Join us for many mic-drop moments with recording artist-turned-healthcare-investor D.A. Wallach, who tells it like it is—but in a nice way only someone who grew up in the Midwest can.From questioning the "doctor" honorific to calling large health systems "the root of evil," D.A. challenges healthcare's sacred cows and offers a provocative vision for the future.We cover:

Atlas Shrugged seems to be everywhere today. Randian villains are in the news. Rand remains influential on the right, from the Reagan era to the modern libertarian movement. Perhaps most significantly, entrepreneurs like Elon Musk and Marc Andreessen who are moving into government with DOGE, have been influenced by Rand, and, fascinatingly, Andreessen only read the novel four years ago. Hollis Robbins (@Anecdotal) and I talked about how Atlas Shrugged is in conversation with the great novels of the past, Rand's greats skills of plotting, drama, and character, and what makes Atlas Shrugged a serious novel, not just a vehicle for ideology. Love it or loathe it, Atlas Shrugged is having a moment. Everyone brings a preconception of Ayn Rand, but she has been opposed by the right and the left ever since she first published. Other than Jennifer Burns' biography, academic study has largely declined to notice Rand. But Rand deserves our serious attention, both as a novelist, and as an influence on the modern world. Here are a couple of excerpts.We talk a lot these days about, “how can I be my best self?” That's what Rand is saying. She's saying, actually, it's not about earning money, it's not about being rich. It is about the perfection of the moral life. It's about the pursuit of excellence. It's about the cultivation of virtue. These are the important things. This is what Dagny is doing. When all the entrepreneurs at the end, they're in the happy valley, actually, between them, they have not that much money, right?Also this.What would Ayn Rand think about the influencer economy? Oh, she'd despise it. She would despise it… all these little girls wanting to grow up to be influencers, they're caught in some algorithm, which is awful. Why would you want to spend your life influencing others? Go create something. It's a hard medicine.And.Her aesthetic is very classical, draped. She doesn't wear flowery patterns. She wears draped, clearly close-fitting gowns and gray tailored suits and a minimum of jewelry, though she does have this bracelet chain made of Rearden metal. You don't know when she possibly has time to go shopping, but she's perfectly dressed all the time in the fashion that we would understand as feminist. She wears trousers, she wears suits, but when she goes out, this black velvet cape. I think it's important to see her as that, even though nobody talks about that in terms of this novel, what a heroine she is. I know that when I was reading her as a teenage girl, that's it.TranscriptHenry: Today, I am talking with Hollis Robbins, former dean of the humanities at Utah University and special advisor on the humanities and AI. We are talking about Atlas Shrugged by Ayn Rand. Hollis, hello.Hollis Robbins: Hello. I'm really glad to have this conversation with you. We've known each other for some years and follow each other's work. I was trained as a scholar of 19th-century American, Victorian, and African-American literature, mostly novels, and love having conversations with you about big, deep novels. When I suggested that we read this book, I was hoping you would be enthusiastic about it, so I'm really happy to be having this conversation. It's hard to know who's interviewing you or what conversation this is, but for you coming at this middle-aged. Not quite middle-aged, what are you?Henry: I'm middle enough. No. This is not going to be an interview as such. We are going to have a conversation about Atlas Shrugged, and we're going to, as you say, talk about it as a novel. It always gets talked about as an ideology. We are very interested in it as a novel and as two people who love the great novels of the 19th century. I've been excited to do this as well. I think that's why it's going to be good. Why don't we start with, why are we doing this?Hollis: I wanted to gesture to that. You are one of the leading public voices on the importance of reading literature and the importance of reading novels particularly, though I saw today, Matt Yglesias had a blog post about Middlemarch, which I think he just recently read. I can credit you with that, or us, or those of us who are telling people read the big novels.My life trajectory was that I read Atlas Shrugged and The Fountainhead before I read Dickens, before I read Jane Austen, before I read Harriet Beecher Stowe or Melville or the Brontës. For me, Atlas Shrugged and The Fountainhead were foundational novels as novels. I wondered what it would be like to talk to somebody whose experience was flipped.Henry: Right, I'm 38 and I'd never read this book. I was coming at it partly having read all those other books, but partly for my whole life, people have said, "Oh, that's really a bad book. That's so badly written. That book is no good." The number one thing I can say to people is this book is fun.Hollis: It's really fun. I was going to say usually what I forget to do in talking about books is give the summary. I'm going to hold up my copy, which is my dog-eared copy from high school, which is hilarious. It's got the tiniest print, which I couldn't possibly read now. No underlining, which is interesting. I read this book before I understood that you were supposed to underline when you liked passages in the book.It was interesting to me. I'd probably read it five or six times in my youth and didn't underline anything. The story is--- You can help me fill in the blanks. For readers who haven't read it, there's this young woman, Dagny Taggart, who's the heiress of the Taggart Transcontinental Railroad fortune. She's a woman. This takes place in about, I think, the '40s, '50s. Her older brother, Jim Taggart, is CEO. She's COO, so she's the operations person. It is in some ways the story of her-- It's not quite a bildungsroman. This is the way I tell the story. It's the story of her coming to the realization of how the world works. There's many ways to come at this story. She has multiple boyfriends, which is excellent. Her first boyfriend, his name is Francisco d'Anconia. He's the head of d'Anconia Copper. He too is an heir of this longstanding copper fortune. Her second is a metals magnate, Hank Rearden, who invents this great metal, Rearden metal.Really, it's also the story of the decline of America, and the ways that, in this Randian universe, these villainous group of people who run the country are always taking and extracting from producers. As she's creating and building this great railroad and doing wonderful things and using Rearden metal to do it, something is pulling all the producers out of society, and she's like, "What is going on?"It turns out there's this person, John Galt, who is saying, "I don't like the way the country is run. I don't like this extractive philosophy. I am going to take all the producers and lure them voluntarily to a--" It's a hero's lair. It's not like a James Bond villain lair. It's a hero lair in Colorado called Galt's Gulch. He is John Galt. It ends up being a battle between who is right in a wrong world. Is it the ethical person, Dagny Taggart, who continues to strive and try to be a producer and hold on to her ethics in this corrupt world, or is it somebody saying, "To hell with this. I am going on strike. You guys come with me and let the world collapse." How's that for summary?Henry: No, I think that's great. I couldn't have done a better job. One thing that we can say is that the role of reason, of being a rational person, of making reason the sole arbiter of how you make choices, be they practical, ethical, financial, whatever, that's at the heart of the book, right?Hollis: That's the philosophy. We could go there in a second. I think the plot of the book is that she demonstrates this.Henry: What she has to learn, like what is the big lesson for Dagny, is at the beginning, she hasn't fully understood that the good guys use reason and the bad guys do not, as it were.Hollis: Right. I think that's right. I like thinking about this as a bildungsroman. You said that the book is fun. Her part of the book is fun, but not really fun. The fun part of the book, and you can tell me because every time you kept texting me, "Oh my God, Jim Taggart. Oh my God, Jim Taggart. Oh my God, Jim Taggart."--Henry: These guys are so awful. [laughs]Hollis: They're so awful. The fun parts of the book, the Rand villains are the government entities and the cabals of business leaders who she calls looters and second-handers who run the country and all they do is extract value. Marc Andreessen was on a podcast recently and was all about these Rand villains and these looters. I think, again, to get back to why are we doing this and why are we doing this now, Ayn Rand and Atlas Shrugged is in the air with the second Trump administration.Henry: Yes. In a way, we're doing this because the question is, is this the novel of the future? Right? What we're seeing is it's very influential on the right. Rand's ideas have long been a libertarian inspiration. Elon Musk's read her. You mentioned Andreessen, Peter Thiel, all these people. It goes back to the Reagan days. People in the Republican Party have been quoting Ayn Rand. Then more broadly, we see all these worries about social collapse today. What happens in the plot of Atlas Shrugged is that society does slowly collapse.Dagny has to realize it's because of these people who are not using their reason and they're nationalizing things and taking resource away from proficient entrepreneurs and stuff. It's all about infrastructure, energy, people doing exploitation in the name of the common good, ineffective political leaders, people covering up lies and misdemeanors, people being accepting of what is obviously criminal behavior because it's in the cause of the greater good. We have free speech, all these topics, energy production. We're seeing this in the headlines. When I was reading this book, I was like, "Oh my God, how did she know?"Hollis: How did she know?Henry: How did she know.Hollis: I think the bildungsroman aspect of this as a novel. It's hard to read it as a novel. I think it's hard. By the way, I have to really I applaud you for not, until you got almost to the end of the book, texting me about this person or that person, or how it's political. I admire you for looking at the book and coming to the book as an expert in novels.What she comes to terms with, and it's a real slowly-- It's not even scales falling from her eyes. She doesn't sit and say, "Oh my God, the world is corrupt." She just is like, "That person's corrupt. I'm not going to deal with them. That person's corrupt. I'm not going to deal with them." She just keeps going, but she doesn't ever accept with a fatalism that she's living in this world where every single person who's in charge is going to let her down.Henry: It's also interesting to me that she doesn't complain.Hollis: No.Henry: Now, that reminded me of I wrote about Margaret Thatcher in my book. She was another big one for however hard it was, however difficult it was, why would you complain? Let's just go to work. A lot of people found her difficult for that reason. When I was reading this, I was like, "Ayn Rand clearly has the same idea. You can nationalize every last inch of the economy. I'm going to get up and go to work and try and beat you. I'm not going to sit around and complain." It's a very stern attitude in a way. She's very strict with herself. I found the book to be-- I know Rand is very atheist, but a very Protestant book.Hollis: Yes, it really is.Henry: Intensely Protestant, yes.Hollis: That's a nice way to think about it. A certain kind of Protestant, a Weberian Protestant.Henry: Sure.Hollis: Not a Southern Baptist Protestant who believes in the absence of reason. I was thinking I was teaching in Mississippi years ago. I was teaching a course on Wordsworth and had to do a unit on Voltaire because you can't really understand Wordsworth unless you understand Voltaire. There was a woman in my class. She was a version of Presbyterian who doesn't believe in reason, believes that in the fall, man lost their reason.Therefore, she asked if she could be excused from class because I was talking about Voltaire and the importance of reason. She said, "This is against my religion. If you believe that man has reason, you are actually going about it wrong, so may I be excused?" Which in all the years I've had people ask for excuses to miss class, that was a memorable one.Henry: That's unique. [laughs]Hollis: It's interesting because, again, I should get back to the novel, the opposition from Rand is as strong on the religious right as it is on the left. In fact, very strong. When Atlas Shrugged came out, William F. Buckley famously had Whittaker Chambers write the review. He hated her. He despised her. He despised the fact that she put reason first.Henry: Yes. I think that's worth emphasizing that some people listening will think, "I'm Rand. These nasty ideas, she's on the right." She's been ideologically described in that way so many times. Deirdre McCloskey in the Literary Review has just in the most recent edition written an absolutely scathing article about Rand. That's libertarian opposition to Rand.McCloskey is saying Hayek is the real thing here and Rand would have hated everything that Hayek did. She got everything wrong. I think the opposition to her, as you say, it's on both sides. One thing that's interesting about this novel is that because she created her own philosophy, which people will have different views on how well that went, but there isn't anyone else like this. All the other people like this are her followers.Hollis: Exactly.Henry: She's outside of the other systems of thought in a way.Hollis: We should talk about Rand. I'm going to quote a little bit from this book on feminist interpretation of Ayn Rand. Let's talk a little bit, if we can, about Dagny as the heroine of a novel, or a hero, because one of the really interesting things about reading Rand at this moment is that she's got one pronoun, he, him, man. She is in this era where man means man and women. That there isn't men and women, he and she, and now it's he, she, and them. She is like, "There's one pronoun." Even she talks about the rights of man or man believes. She means everybody, but she only means man too. It's interesting.I was very much part of the first pronoun wars in the 1980s when women scholars were like, "He and she." Now we're thrown out the window with that binary. Again, we don't need to talk about pronouns, but it's really important to understanding Rand and reading this novel, how much she embraces men and the male pronoun, even while she is using it both ways, and even while her story is led by this woman. She's beautiful. She's beautiful in a very specific way. She's tall, she's slender, she's got great cheekbones, she's got great shoulders, she's got long legs.Her aesthetic is very classical, draped. She doesn't wear flowery patterns. She wears draped, clearly close-fitting gowns and gray tailored suits and a minimum of jewelry, though she does have this bracelet chain made of Rearden metal. You don't know when she possibly has time to go shopping, but she's perfectly dressed all the time in the fashion that we would understand as feminist. She wears trousers, she wears suits, but when she goes out, this black velvet cape. I think it's important to see her as that, even though nobody talks about that in terms of this novel, what a heroine she is. I know that when I was reading her as a teenage girl, that's it.Henry: I want to be Dagny.Hollis: I want to be Dagny. I want to have capes, right?Henry: There's a very important scene, it's not too much of a plot spoiler, where Hank Rearden has invented this new metal. It's very exciting because it's much more efficient and it's much stronger and you can build new bridges for the trains and everything. He makes a bracelet of his new metal. It's a new steel alloy, I think, and gives it to his wife. His wife basically doesn't care.She's not really interested in what it takes to earn the money, she just wants to have the money. You get the strong impression throughout the book that some of the people that Rand is most scathingly disapproving of are wives who don't work. None of those people come out well. When Dagny goes to a party at the Rearden house and she is romantically involved with Hank Rearden, she sees the bracelet.Hollis: She isn't then, right? Isn't she not then?Henry: No, but they have feelings for each otherHollis: Right. Reasonable feelings for each other.Henry: That's right, reasonable feelings, but they're not currently acting on those feelings. She sees the bracelet and she exchanges her, I think, diamonds-Hollis: Diamond bracelet.Henry: -for the Rearden metal bracelet with the wife. It's this wonderful moment where these two opposite ideals of womanhood that Rand is presenting. It's a great moment of heroism for Dagny because she is saying, "Who cares about glittering diamonds when you have a new steel alloy that can make this incredible bridge?" It sounds crazy, but this is 1957. Dagny is very much what you might call one of the new women.Hollis: Right.Henry: I think in some ways, Rand-- I don't like the phrase she's ahead of her time. I've read a lot of 1950s fiction. This is not the typical woman.Hollis: No, this is not Cheever. This is not a bored suburban housewife at a time when the way the '50s are taught, certainly in America, it's like women could work during the war, then they were suburban housewives, there was bored, there were key parties and all sorts of Cheever sorts of things. This is not that. I read this first. I was only 15 years after it was published, I think, in the '60s, early '70s reading it.This, to me, seemed perfectly normal and everything else seemed regressive and strange and whiny. There's a lot to be said for reading this novel first. I think if we can talk a little bit about these set pieces because I think for me reading it as a novel and hearing you talk about it as a novel, that novels, whether we're thinking about-- I want to see if you want to compare her to Dorothea or just to any other Victorian women novel that you can think of. That's the closest, right? Is there anybody that's closest to Dorothea from Middlemarch? Is that there are these set pieces. People think that Rand-- the idea is that she's not a great writer. She is a great writer. She started in Hollywood. Her first book, The Fountainhead, was made into a movie. She understands plotting and keeping the reader's attention. We go forward, we go backwards. There's her relationship with Francisco d'Anconia that we see her now, years after, then we have flashbacks to growing up and how they became lovers.There are big meeting set pieces where everybody's in the room, and we have all the backstories of the people in the room, what is going to happen. There are these big party scenes, as you say. For example, this big, glorious, glamorous party at the Rearden house, Francisco is there. Francisco and Hank Rearden get in a conversation, and she's like, "I want to go see what my old boyfriend is talking to the guy I like about."There are these moments where you're not supposed to come at the book that way in this serious philosophical way. Then later on when there's this wonderful scene where Francisco comes to see Dagny. This is much later. Hank and Dagny are lovers, so he has a key to her apartment. He walks in and everybody sees immediately what's going on. It's as good as any other farce moment of somebody hiding behind a curtain, right?Henry: Yes.Hollis: Everything is revealed all at once. She's very good at scenes like that.Henry: Yes, very good. She's very good at high drama. One of the phrases that kept coming back to me was that this book is a melodrama of ideas.Hollis: Yes.Henry: Right? It's not a novel of ideas as such, it's a melodrama of ideas. I think one thing that people who think she's a bad writer will say is it's melodrama, the characters are flat, the prose is not lyrical, all these different things. Whereas when I read it, I was like, "She's so good at melodrama." I feel like, in some ways, it does not feel like a 1950s novel because there's so much excitement about technology, so much feminism, just so many things that I do not associate--Maybe I'm being too English, but I don't read John Cheever, for example, and think, "Oh, he loves the train." Whereas this book is very, very exciting as a story about inventing a new kind of train that goes really fast," which sounds silly, but that's a really Dickensian theme, that's in Middlemarch. Actually, that's what Matt Yglesias was talking about in his excellent piece today. What does feel very 1950s is you've got the Hollywood influence. The dialogue, I think, is not always great, but it is often great.I often would read pages and think, "This would actually be really good in, not an A++ movie, but in a decent crime movie or something. This would be quite good dialogue." There's a comic book aesthetic to it in the way that the scenes play out. Just a lot of these '50s aesthetics actually are present in the book. I'm going to read one paragraph. It's from part one. I think we should read out loud a few bits to give people a sense.Hollis: Yes.Henry: This is when Dagny has built a new train line using grid and metal to make the bridge so that it can go over a valley. I think that's right. The train can do 100 miles an hour. It's this very, very exciting new development. It means that energy can be supplied to factories, and so it's a huge, big deal. This is when she's on the train going at 100 miles an hour and she just can't believe it's happening."Things streaked past a water tank, a tree, a shanty, a grain silo. They had a windshield wiper motion. They were rising, describing a curve, and dropping back. The telegraph wires ran a race with the train, rising and falling from pole to pole, in an even rhythm like the cardiograph record of a steady heartbeat written across the sky. She looked ahead at the haze that melted rail and distance, a haze that could rip apart at any moment to some shape of disaster.""She wondered why she felt safer than she had ever felt in a car behind the engine. Safer here where it seemed as if should an obstacle rise, her breast and the glass shield would be the first to smash against it. She smiled, grasping the answer. It was the security of being first with full sight and full knowledge of one's own course, not the blind sense of being pulled into the unknown by some unknown power ahead."That's not MFA prose or whatever, but it turns the pages. I think she's very good at relating we're on the train and it's going very fast to how Dagny is thinking through the philosophical conundrum that is basically going to drive the whole plot forwards. I was reminded again and again of what Virginia Woolf said about Walter Scott, where she compared Scott to Robert Louis Stevenson. She said that Stevenson had beautiful sentences and dapper little adjectives. It was all jeweled and carefully done. You could marvel over each sentence.She said, "Whereas Scott, it's just page after page and no sentence is beautiful," but she says, "He writes at the level of the page. He's not like Stevenson. He's not writing at the level of the sentence. You have to step into the world." You can say, 'Oh, that wasn't a very good sentence,' but my goodness, the pages keep turning and you're there in the world, right?Hollis: Exactly.Henry: I think she made a really important point there and we just undervalue that so much when we say, oh, so-and-so is not a good writer. What we mean is they're not a Robert Louis Stevenson, they're a Walter Scott. It's like, sure, but Walter Scott was great at what he did. Ayn Rand is in the Walter Scott inheritance in the sense that it's a romance, it's not strictly realistic novel. You have to step into the world. You can't spend your whole time going, "Was that a great sentence? Do I really agree with what she just--" It's like, no, you have to go into this utopian sci-fi universe and you have to keep turning the pages. You get caught up and you go, "Wow, this is this is working for me."Hollis: Let me push back on that-Henry: Yes, good.Hollis: -because I think that was a beautiful passage, one of my favorite passages in this book, which is hard to say because it's a really, really big book. It's a memorable passage because here she is in a place at this moment. She is questioning herself. Isn't she questioning why? Why do I feel safe? Then it strikes her. In this moment, all interior while all this stuff is happening. This whole Rearden metal train bridge set piece is one of the highlights of at least the first half of the book. You come away, even if we've had our entire life up to her, understanding her as a philosophical this woman. How is that different from Dorothea or from Elizabeth Bennet? Yes, Elizabeth Bennet, right?Henry: Oh, no, I agree. My point was purely about prose style, which was to say if you say, "Oh, she writes like a Walter Scott, not like a Robert Louis Stevenson," you're going to deny yourself seeing what you've just said, which is that actually, yes, she has the ability to write philosophical characters.Hollis: When I first read Pride and Prejudice, I read it through the lens of Rand. Now, clearly, these heroines had fewer choices. Dorothea marries Casaubon, I don't know how you pronounce it, because she thinks he's a Randian expert, somebody who's got this grand idea. She's like, "Whoa, I want to be part of this endeavor, the key to all mythologies." Then she's so let down. In the Randian sense, you can see why she would have wanted him.Henry: That's right. I think George Eliot would have strongly disagreed with Rand philosophically. The heroines, as you say, what they're doing in the novel is having to realize that there are social conventions I have to understand and there are things I have to learn how to do, but actually, the key to working all that out is more at the moral philosophical level. This is what happens to Dagny. I think it's on the next page from what I just read. There's another passage where it says that she's in the train and she's enjoying. It's working and she's thrilled that her train is working. She was trying not to think, but she couldn't help herself.She said, "Who made the train. Is it the brute force of muscle? Who can make all the dials and the levers? How is it possible that this thing has even been put together?" Then she starts thinking to herself, "We've got a government who's saying it's wrong to do this, you're taking resources, you're not doing it for the common good." She says, "How can they regard this as evil? How can they believe that this is ignoble to have created this incredible thing?"She says she wants to be able to toss the subject out of the window and let it get shattered somewhere along the track. She wants the thoughts to go past like the telegraph poles, but obviously, she can't. She has this moment of realization that this can't be wrong. This type of human accomplishment can't be against the common good. It can't be considered to be ignoble. I think that is like the Victorian heroines.To me, it was more like Fanny Price, which is that someone turns up into a relatively closed system of ideas and keeps their own counsel for a long time, and has to admit sometimes when they haven't got it right or whatever. Basically, in the end, they are vindicated on fairly straightforward grounds. Dagny comes to realize that, "I was right. I was using my reason. I was working hard. I was being productive. Yes, I was right about that." Fanny, it's more like a Christian insight into good behavior, but I felt the pattern was the same.Hollis: Sure. I'll also bring up Jane Eyre here, right?Henry: Yes.Hollis: Jane Eyre, her relationship, there's a lot to be said of both Mr. Darcy and Mr. Rochester with Hank Rearden because Hank Rearden has to come to his sense. He's married. He doesn't like his wife. He doesn't like this whole system that he's in. He wants to be with a woman that's a meeting of the mind, but he's got all this social convention he has to deal with. Rochester has to struggle, and of course, Bertha Mason has to die in that book. He ends up leaving his wife, but too late. If we're going to look at this novel as a novel, we can see that there are these moments that I think have some resonance. I know you don't seem to want to go to the Mr. Darcy part of it.Henry: No. I had also thought about Jane Eyre. My thought was that, obviously, other than being secular because Jane Eyre is very Christian, the difference is that Hank Rearden and Dagny basically agree that we can't conduct our relationship in a way that would be morally compromising to her. They go through this very difficult process of reasoning like, "How can we do this in a good way?"They're a little bit self-sacrificing about it because they don't want to upset the moral balance. Whereas Mr. Rochester, at least for the first part of the book, has an attitude that's more like, "Yes, but she's in the attic. Why does it matter if we get married?" He doesn't really see the problem of morally compromising Jane, and so Jane has to run away.Hollis: Right.Henry: One of the interesting things about Rand, what is different from like Austen and the Brontës and whatever, is that Dagny and Hank are not in opposition before they get together. They have actually this unusual thing in romance and literature, which is that they have a meeting of minds. What gets in the way is that the way their minds agree is contra mundum and the world has made this problem for them.Hollis: I think in a way, that's the central relationship in--Henry: Yes. That was how I read it, yes.Hollis: Yes. The fact as we think about what the complications are in reading this novel as a novel is that here is this great central romance and they've got obstacles. She's got an old boyfriend, he's married. They've got all these things that are classic obstacles to a love story. Rand understands that enough to build it, that that will keep a lot of readers' interest, but then it's like, "That's actually not the point of my book," which is how the second half or the last third of the novel just gets really wiggy." Again, spoiler alert, but Hank is blackmailed to be, as the society is collapsing, as things are collapsing--Henry: We should say that the government has taken over in a nationalizing program by this point.Hollis: Right, because as John Galt is pulling all the thought leaders and the industrialists and all the movers of the world into his lair, things are getting harder and harder and harder, things are getting nationalized. Some of these big meetings in Washington where these horrible people are deciding how to redistribute wealth, again, which is part of the reason somebody like Congressman Paul Ryan would give out copies of Atlas Shrugged to all of his staffers. He's like, "You've got to read this book because we can't go to Washington and be like this. The Trumpian idea is we've got to get rid of people who are covering up and not doing the right thing."They've blackmailed Hank Rearden into giving up Rearden Metal by saying, "We know you've been sleeping with Dagny Taggart." It's a very dramatic point. How is this going to go down?Henry: Right. I think that's interesting. What I loved about the way she handled that romance was that romance is clearly part of what she sees as important to a flourishing life. She has to constantly yoke it to this idea that reason is everything, so human passion has to be conducted on the basis that it's logically reasonable, but that it therefore becomes self-sacrificing. There is something really sad and a little bit tragic about Hank being blackmailed like that, right?Hollis: Yes. I have to say their first road trip together, it's like, "Let's just get out of here and go have a road trip and stay in hotels and have sex and it'll be awesome." That their road trip is like, "Let's go also see some abandoned factories and see what treasures we might find there." To turn this love road trip into also the plot twist that gets them closer to John Galt is a magnificent piece of plot.Henry: Yes. I loved that. I know you want to talk about the big John Galt speech later, but I'm going to quote one line because this all relates to what I think is one of the most central lines of the book. "The damned and the guiltiest among you are the men who had the capacity to know yet chose to blank out reality." A lot of the time, like in Brontë or whatever, there are characters like Rochester's like that. The center of their romance is that they will never do that to each other because that's what they believe philosophically, ethically. It's how they conduct themselves at business. It's how they expect other people to conduct themselves. They will never sacrifice that for each other.That for them is a really high form of love and it's what enables huge mutual respect. Again, it's one of those things I'm amazed-- I used to work in Westminster. I knew I was a bit of a libertarian. I knew lots of Rand adjacent or just very, very Randian people. I thought they were all insane, but that's because no one would ever say this. No one would ever say she took an idea like that and turned it into a huge romance across hundreds of pages. Who else has done that in the novel? I think that's great.Hollis: It really is hard. It really is a hard book. The thing that people say about the book, as you say, and the reason you hadn't read it up until now, is it's like, "Oh, yes, I toyed with Rand as a teenager and then I put that aside." I put away my childish things, right? That's what everybody says on the left, on the right. You have to think about it's actually really hard. My theory would be that people put it away because it's really, really hard, what she tried is hard. Whether she succeeded or not is also hard. As we were just, before we jumped on, talking about Rand's appearance on Johnny Carson, a full half hour segment of him taking her very seriously, this is a woman who clearly succeeded. I recently read Jennifer Burn's biography of her, which is great. Shout out to Jennifer.What I came away with is this is a woman who made her living as a writer, which is hard to do. That is a hard thing to do, is to make your living as a writer, as a woman in the time difference between 1942, The Fountainhead, which was huge, and 57, Atlas Shrugged. She was blogging, she had newsletters, she had a media operation that's really, really impressive. This whole package doesn't really get looked at, she as a novelist. Again, let me also say it was later on when I came to Harriet Beecher Stowe, who is another extraordinary woman novelist in America who wrote this groundbreaking book, which is filled--I particularly want to shout out to George Harris, the slave inventor who carried himself like a Rand hero as a minor character and escapes. His wife is Eliza, who famously runs across the ice flows in a brave Randian heroine escape to freedom where nobody's going to tell them what to do. These women who changed literature in many ways who have a really vexed relationship or a vexed place in academia. Certainly Stowe is studied.Some 20 years ago, I was at an event with the great Elaine Showalter, who was coming out with an anthology of American women writers. I was in the audience and I raised my hand, I said, "Where's Ayn Rand?" She was like, "Ha, ha, ha." Of course, what a question is that? There is no good reason that Ayn Rand should not be studied in academia. There is no good reason. These are influential novels that actually, as we've talked about here, can be talked about in the context of other novels.Henry: I think one relevant comparison is let's say you study English 19th-century literature on a course, a state-of-the-nation novel or the novel of ideas would be included as routine, I think very few people would say, "Oh, those novels are aesthetically excellent. We read them because they're beautifully written, and they're as fun as Dickens." No one's saying that. Some of them are good, some of them are not good. They're important because of what they are and the barrier to saying why Rand is important for what she is because, I think, people believe her ideas are evil, basically.One central idea is she thinks selfishness is good, but I think we've slightly dealt with the fact that Dagny and Hank actually aren't selfish some of the time, and that they are forced by their ethical system into not being selfish. The other thing that people say is that it's all free-market billionaire stuff, basically. I'm going to read out a passage from-- It's a speech by Francisco in the second part. It's a long speech, so I'm not going to read all eight pages. I'm going to read this speech because I think this theme that I'm about to read out, it's a motif, it's again and again and again.Hollis: Is this where he's speaking to Hank or to Dagny?Henry: I think when he's speaking to Dagny and he says this."Money will not purchase happiness for the man who has no concept of what he want. Money will not give him a code of values if he has evaded the knowledge of what to value, and it will not provide him with a purpose if he has evaded the choice of what to seek. Money will not buy intelligence for the fool, or admiration for the coward, or respect for the incompetent."The man who attempts to purchase the brains of his superiors to serve him with his money replacing his judgment ends up by becoming the victim of his inferiors. The men of intelligence desert him, but the cheats and the frauds come flocking to him, drawn by a law which he has not discovered, that no man may be smaller than his money."Hollis: That's a good--Henry: Right? It's a great paragraph. I feel like she says that in dozens of ways throughout the book, and she wants you to be very clear when you leave that this book is not a creed in the name of just make money and have free market capitalism so you can be rich. That paragraph and so many others, it's almost biblical in the way she writes it. She's really hammering the rhythms, and the tones, and the parallels. She's also, I think, trying to appropriate some of the way the Bible talks about money and turn it into her own secular pseudo-Aristotelian idea, right?Hollis: Yes.Henry: We talk a lot these days about, how can I be my best self? That's what Rand is saying. She's saying, actually, it's not about earning money, it's not about being rich. It is about the perfection of the moral life. It's about the pursuit of excellence. It's about the cultivation of virtue. These are the important things. This is what Dagny is doing. When all the entrepreneurs at the end, they're in the happy valley, actually, between them, they have not that much money, right?Hollis: Right.Henry: The book does not end in a rich utopia, it's important to say.Hollis: It's interesting. A couple of things. I want to get this back since we're still in the novel. Let me say when we get to Galt's great speech, which is bizarre. He says a similar thing that I'll bring in now. He says, "The mother who buys milk for her baby instead of a hat is not sacrificing because her values are feeding the baby. The woman who sacrifices the hat to feed her baby, but really wants the hat and is only feeding the baby out of duty is sacrificing." That's bad. She's saying get your values in order. Understand what it is you want and do that thing, but don't do it because somebody says you have to. She says this over and over in many ways, or the book says this.Henry: We should say, that example of the mother is incidental. The point she's always making is you must think this through for yourself, you must not do it because you've been told to do it.Hollis: Right, exactly. To get back to the love story aspects of the book because they don't sit and say they love each other, even all the great romances. It's not like, "I love you. I love you." It's straight to sex or looks and meetings of the minds. It's interesting. We should deal with the fact that from The Fountainhead and a little bit in this book, the sex is a little rapey. It's a difficult thing to talk about. It's certainly one of the reasons that feminists, women writers don't approve of her. In the book, it's consensual. Whatever one wants to think about the ways that people have sex, it is consensual in the book. Also in The Fountainhead.I'm sure I'll get hate mail for even saying that, but in her universe, that's where it is. What's interesting, Francisco as a character is so interesting. He's conflicted, he's charming, he's her first lover. He's utterly good in every way. He ends up without her. Hank is good. Hank goes through his struggles and learning curve about women prioritizing. If you don't like your wife, don't be married to your wife. It's like he goes through his own what are my values and how do I live them.I know you think that this is bizarre, but there's a lot of writing about the relationship of Hank and Francisco because they find themselves in the same room a lot. They happen to have both been Dagny's lovers or ex-lovers, and they really, really like each other. There's a way that that bonding-- Homosexuality does not exist in her novels, whatever, but that's a relationship of two people that really are hot for one another. There is a lot of writing. There are queer readings of Rand that make a lot of that relationship.Again, this isn't my particular lens of criticism, but I do see that the energy, which is why I asked you which speech you were reading because some of Francisco's best speeches are for Hank because he's trying to woo Hank to happy valley. Toward the end when they're all hanging out together in Galt's Gulch, there's clearly a relationship there.Henry: Oh, yes. No, once you pointed out to me, I was like, "That makes sense of so many passages." That's clearly there. What I don't understand is why she did that. I feel like, and this is quite an accomplishment because it's a big novel with a lot of moving parts, everything else is resolved both in terms of the plot, but also in terms of how it fits her philosophical idea. That, I think, is pretty much the only thing where you're left wondering, "Why was that in there? She hasn't made a point about it. They haven't done anything about it." This I don't understand. That's my query.Hollis: Getting ready to have this conversation, I spent a lot of time on some Reddit threads. I ran Atlas Shrugged Reddit threads where there's some fantastic conversations.Henry: Yes, there is.Hollis: One of them is about, how come Francisco didn't end up with anybody? That's just too bad. He's such a great character and he ends up alone. I would say he doesn't end up alone, he ends up with his boyfriend Hank, whatever that looks like. Two guys that believe in the same things, they can have whatever life they want. Go on.Henry: Are you saying that now that they're in the valley, they will be more free to pursue that relationship?Hollis: There's a lot of things that she has said about men's and women's bodies. She said in other places, "I don't think there'll ever be a woman president because why would a woman want to be president? What a woman really wants is a great man, and we can't have a president who's looking for a great man. She has to be a president." She's got a lot of lunacy about women. Whatever. I don't understand. Someplace I've read that she understands male homosexuality, but not female homosexuality. Again, I am not a Rand scholar. Having read and seen some of that in the ether, I see it in the book, and I can see how her novel would invite that analysis.I do want to say, let's spend a few seconds on some of the minor characters. There are some really wonderful minor characters. One of them is Cherryl Taggart, this shop girl that evil Jim Taggart meets one night in a rainstorm, and she's like, "Oh, you're so awesome," and they get married. It's like he's got all this praise for marrying the shop girl. It's a funny Eliza Doolittle situation because she is brought into this very wealthy society, which we have been told and we have been shown is corrupt, is evil, everybody's lying all the time, it's pretentious, Dagny hates it.Here's the Cherryl Taggart who's brought into this. In the beginning, she hates Dagny because she's told by everybody, "Hate Dagny, she's horrible." Then she comes to her own mini understanding of the corruption that we understand because Dagny's shown it in the novel, has shown it to us this entire time. She comes to it and she's like, "Oh my God," and she goes to Dagny. Dagny's so wonderful to her like, "Yes. You had to come to this on your own, I wasn't going to tell you, but you were 100% right." That's the end of her.Henry: Right. When she meets Taggart, there's this really interesting speech she has where she says, "I want to make something of myself and get somewhere." He's like, "What? What do you want to do?" Red flag. "What? Where?" She says, "I don't know, but people do things in this world. I've seen pictures of New York," and she's pointing at like the skyscrapers, right? Whatever. "I know that someone's built that. They didn't sit around and whine, but like the kitchen was filthy and the roof was leaking." She gets very emotional at this point. She says to him, "We were stinking poor and we didn't give a damn. I've dragged myself here, and I'm going to do something."Her story is very sad because she then gets mired in the corruption of Taggart's. He's basically bit lazy and a bit of a thief, and he will throw anyone under the bus for his own self-advancement. He is revealed to be a really sinister guy. I was absolutely hissing about him most of the time. Then, let's just do the plot spoiler and say what happens to Cherryl, right? Because it's important. When she has this realization and Taggart turns on her and reveals himself as this snake, and he's like, "Well, what did you expect, you idiot? This is the way the world is."Hollis: Oh, it's a horrible fight. It's the worst fight.Henry: Right? This is where the melodrama is so good. She goes running out into the streets, and it's the night and there are shadows. She's in the alleyway. Rand, I don't have the page marked, but it's like a noir film. She's so good at that atmosphere. Then it gets a little bit gothic as well. She's running through the street, and she's like, "I've got to go somewhere, anywhere. I'll work. I'll pick up trash. I'll work in a shop. I'll do anything. I've just got to get out of this."Hollis: Go work at the Panda Express. Henry: Yes. She's like, "I've got to get out of this system," because she's realized how morally corrupting it is. By this time, this is very late. Society is in a-- it's like Great Depression style economic collapse by this point. There really isn't a lot that she could do. She literally runs into a social worker and the social-- Rand makes this leering dramatic moment where the social worker reaches out to grab her and Cherryl thinks, "Oh, my God, I'm going to be taken prisoner in. I'm going back into the system," so she jumps off the bridge.This was the moment when I was like, I've had this lurking feeling about how Russian this novel is. At this point, I was like, "That could be a short story by Gogol," right? The way she set that up. That is very often the trap that a Gogol character or maybe a Dostoevsky character finds themselves in, right? That you suddenly see that the world is against you. Maybe you're crazy and paranoid. Maybe you're not. Depends which story we're reading. You run around trying to get out and you realize, "Oh, my God, I'm more trapped than I thought. Actually, maybe there is no way out." Cherryl does not get a lot of pages. She is, as you say, quite a minor character, but she illustrates the whole story so, so well, so dramatically.Hollis: Oh, wow.Henry: When it happens, you just, "Oh, Cherryl, oh, my goodness."Hollis: Thank you for reading that. Yes, you could tell from the very beginning that the seeds of what could have been a really good person were there. Thank you for reading that.Henry: When she died, I went back and I was like, "Oh, my God, I knew it."Hollis: How can you say Rand is a bad writer, right? That is careful, careful plotting, because she's just a shop girl in the rain. You've got this, the gun on the wall in that act. You know she's going to end up being good. Is she going to be rewarded for it? Let me just say, as an aside, I know we don't have time to talk about it here. My field, as I said, is 19th century African American novels, primarily now.This, usually, a woman, enslaved woman, the character who's like, "I can't deal with this," and jumps off a bridge and drowns herself is a fairly common and character. That is the only thing to do. One also sees Rand heroes. Stowe's Dred, for example, is very much, "I would rather live in the woods with a knife and then, be on the plantation and be a slave." When you think about, even the sort of into the 20th century, the Malcolm X figure, that, "I'm going to throw out all of this and be on my own," is very Randian, which I will also say very Byronic, too, Rand didn't invent this figure, but she put it front and center in these novels, and so when you think about how Atlas Shrugged could be brought into a curriculum in a network of other novels, how many of we've discussed so far, she's there, she's influenced by and continues to influence. Let's talk about your favorite minor character, the Wet Nurse.Henry: This is another great death scene.Hollis: Let's say who he is, so the government sends this young man to work at the Rearden Mills to keep an eye on Hank Rearden.Henry: Once they nationalize him, he's the bureaucrat reporting back, and Rearden calls him the Wet Nurse as an insult.Hollis: Right, and his job, he's the Communist Party person that's in every factory to make sure that everything is--Henry: That's right, he's the petty bureaucrat reporting back and making sure everyone's complying.Hollis: He's a young recent college graduate that, Hank, I think, early on, if it's possible even to find the Wet Nurse early scene, you could tell in the beginning, too, he's bright and sparkly right out of college, and this is, it seems like a good job for him. He's like, "Woohoo, I get to be here, and I get to be--" Yes, go ahead.Henry: What happens to him is, similarly to Cherryl, he has a conversion, but his conversion is not away from the corruption of the system he's been in, he is converted by what he sees in the Rearden plant, the hard work, the dedication, the idealism, the deep focus on making the metal, and he starts to see that if we don't make stuff, then all the other arguments downstream of that about how to appropriate, how to redistribute, whatever, are secondary, and so he becomes, he goes native, as it were. He becomes a Reardenite, and then at the end, when there's a crowd storming the place, and this crowd has been sent by the government, it's a fake thing to sort of--Hollis: Also, a very good scene, very dramatic.Henry: She's very good at mobs, very good at mobs, and they kill, they kill the Wet Nurse, they throw him over. He has a couple of speeches in dialogue with Rearden while he's dying, and he says--Hollis: You have to say, they throw him, they leave him on this pile of slag. He crawls up to the street where Rearden happens to be driving by, and car stops, and so that finding the Wet Nurse there and carrying him in his arms, yes.Henry: That's right, it's very dramatic, and then they have this dialogue, and he says, "I'd like to live, Mr. Rearden, God, how I'd like to, not because I'm dying, but because I've just discovered tonight what it means to be alive, and it's funny, do when I discovered it? In the office, when I stuck my neck out, when I told the bastards to go to hell, there's so many things I wish I'd known sooner, but it's no use crying over spilt milk," and then Rearden, he goes, "Listen, kid, said Rearden sternly, I want you to do me a favor." "Now, Mr. Rearden?" "Yes, now." "Of course, Mr. Rearden, if I can," and Rearden says, "You were willing to die to save my mills, will you try and live for me?"I think this is one of those great moments where, okay, maybe this isn't like George Eliot style dialogue, but you could put that straight in a movie, that would work really well, that would be great, right? I can hear Humphrey Bogart saying these things. It would work, wouldn't it?She knows that, and that's why she's doing that, she's got that technique. He's another minor character, and Rand is saying, the system is eating people up. We are setting people up for a spiritual destruction that then leads to physical destruction. This point, again, about it's not just about the material world. It's about your inner life and your own mind.I find it very moving.Hollis: These minor characters are fantastic. Then let's talk a little bit about Eddie Willers, because I think a lot about Eddie Willers. Eddie Willers, the childhood three, there were three young people, we keep going back to this childhood. We have Dagny, Francisco, because their parents were friends, and then Eddie Willers, who's like a neighborhood kid, right?Henry: He's down the street.Hollis: He lives down the street. He's like the neighborhood kid. I don't know about you. We had a neighborhood kid. There's always neighborhood kids, right? You end up spending time with this-- Eddie's just sort of always there. Then when they turn 15, 16, 17, and when there's clearly something going on between Dagny and Francisco, Eddie does take a step back, and he doesn't want to see.There's the class issues, the status issues aren't really-- they're present but not discussed by Rand. Here we have these two children heirs, and they don't say like, "You're not one of us, Eddie, because you're not an heir or an heiress." He's there, and he's got a pretty good position as Dagny's right-hand man in Taggart Transcontinental. We don't know where he went to college. We don't know what he does, but we know that he's super loyal, right?Then when she goes and takes a break for a bit, he steps in to be COO. James is like, "Eddie Willers, how can Eddie Willers be a COO?" She's like, "It's really going to be me, but he's going to be fine." We're not really supposed to identify with Eddie, but Eddie's there. Eddie has, all through the novel, all through the big old novel, Eddie eats lunch in the cafeteria. There's always this one guy he's having lunch with. This is, I don't know, like a Greek chorus thing, I don't quite know, but there's Eddie's conversations with this unknown person in the cafeteria give us a sense, maybe it's a narrator voice, like, "Meanwhile, this is going on in the world." We have these conversations. This guy he's having lunch with asks a lot of questions and starts asking a lot of personal questions about Dagny. Then we have to talk to-- I know we've gone for over an hour and 15 minutes, we've got to talk about Galt's Speech, right? When John Galt, toward the end, takes over the airwaves and gives this big three-hour speech, the big three-hour podcast as I tweeted the other day, Eddie is with Dagny.Henry: He's in the radio studio.Hollis: He's in the studio along with one of John Galt's former professors. We hear this voice. Rand says, or the narrator says, three people in the room recognize that voice. I don't know about you, did you guess that it was Galt before that moment that Eddie was having lunch with in the cafeteria?Henry: No, no, no, I didn't.Hollis: Okay, so you knew at that moment.Henry: That was when I was like, "Oh, Eddie was talking, right?" It took me a minute.Hollis: Okay, were you excited? Was that like a moment? Was that a big reveal?Henry: It was a reveal, but it made me-- Eddie's whole character puzzles me because, to me, he feels like a Watson.Hollis: Yes, that's nice, that's good.Henry: He's met Galt, who's been under their noses the whole time. He's been going through an almost Socratic method with Galt, right? If only he could have paid a little bit more attention, he would have realized what was going on. He doesn't, why is this guy so interested in Dagny, like all these things. Even after Galt's big speech, I don't think Eddie quite takes the lesson. He also comes to a more ambiguous but a bad end.Hollis: Eddie's been right there, the most loyal person. The Reddit threads on Eddie Willers, if anybody's interested, are really interesting.Henry: Yes, they are, they're so good.Hollis: Clearly, Eddie recognizes greatness, and he recognizes production, and he recognizes that Dagny is better than Jim. He recognizes Galt. They've been having these conversations for 12 years in the cafeteria. Every time he goes to the cafeteria, he's like, "Where's my friend, where's my friend?" When his friend disappears, but he also tells Galt a few things about Dagny that are personal and private. When everybody in the world, all the great people in the world, this is a big spoiler, go to Galt's Gulch at the end.Henry: He's not there.Hollis: He doesn't get to go. Is it because of the compromises he made along the way? Rand had the power to reward everybody. Hank's secretary gets to go, right?Henry: Yes.Hollis: She's gone throughout the whole thing.Henry: Eddie never thinks for himself. I think that's the-- He's a very, I think, maybe one of the more tragic victims of the whole thing because-- sorry. In a way, because, Cherryl and the Wet Nurse, they try and do the right thing and they end up dying. That's like a more normal tragedy in the sense that they made a mistake. At the moment of realization, they got toppled.Eddie, in a way, is more upsetting because he never makes a mistake and he never has a moment of realization. Rand is, I think this is maybe one of the cruelest parts of the book where she's almost saying, "This guy's never going to think for himself, and he hasn't got a hope." In a novel, if this was like a realistic novel, and she was saying, "Such is the cruelty of the world, what can we do for this person?" That would be one thing. In a novel that's like ending in a utopia or in a sort of utopia, it's one of the points where she's really harsh.Hollis: She's really harsh. I'd love to go and look at her notes at some point in time when I have an idle hour, which I won't, to say like, did she sit around? It's like, "What should I do with Eddie?" To have him die, probably, in the desert with a broken down Taggart transcontinental engine, screaming in terror and crying.Henry: Even at that stage, he can't think for himself and see that the system isn't worth supporting.Hollis: Right. He's just going to be a company man to the end.Henry: It's as cruel as those fables we tell children, like the grasshopper and the ants. He will freeze to death in the winter. There's nothing you can do about it. There are times when she gets really, really tough. I think is why people hate her.Hollis: We were talking about this, about Dickens and minor characters and coming to redemption and Dickens, except Jo. Jo and Jo All Alones, there are people who have redemption and die. Again, I don't know.Henry: There's Cherryl and the Wet Nurse are like Jo. They're tragic victims of the system. She's doing it to say, "Look how bad this is. Look how bad things are." To me, Eddie is more like Mr. Micawber. He's hopeless. It's a little bit comic. It's not a bad thing. Whereas Dickens, at the end, will just say, "Oh, screw the integrity of the plot and the morals. Let's just let Mr. Micawber-- let's find a way out for him." Everyone wants this guy to do well. Rand is like, "No, I'm sticking to my principles. He's dead in the desert, man. He's going to he's going to burn to death." He's like, "Wow, that's okay."Hollis: The funny thing is poor John Galt doesn't even care about him. John Galt has been a bad guy. John Galt is a complicated figure. Let's spend a bit on him.Henry: Before we do that, I actually want to do a very short segment contextualizing her in the 50s because then what you say about Galt will be against this background of what are some of the other ideas in the 50s, right?Hollis: Got it.Henry: I think sometimes the Galt stuff is held up as what's wrong with this novel. When you abstract it and just say it, maybe that's an easier case to make. I think once you understand that this is 1957, she's been writing the book for what, 12 years, I think, or 15 years, the Galt speech takes her 3 years to write, I think. This is, I think the most important label we can give the novel is it's a Cold War novel. She's Russian. What she's doing, in some ways, is saying to America, "This is what will happen to us if we adopt the system of our Cold War enemies." It's like, "This is animal farm, but in America with real people with trains and energy plants and industry, no pigs. This is real life." We've had books like that in our own time. The Mandibles by Lionel Shriver said, that book said, "If the 2008 crash had actually gone really badly wrong and society collapsed, how would it go?" I think that's what she's reacting to. The year before it was published, there was a sociology book called The Organization Man.Hollis: Oh, yes. William Whyte.Henry: A great book. Everyone should read that book. He is worrying, the whole book is basically him saying, "I've surveyed all these people in corporate America. They're losing the Protestant work ethic. They're losing the entrepreneurial spirit. They're losing their individual drive. Instead of wanting to make a name for themselves and invent something and do great things," he says, "they've all got this managerial spirit. All the young men coming from college, they're like, 'Everything's been done. We just need to manage it now.'" He's like, "America is collapsing." Yes, he thinks it's this awful. Obviously, that problem got solved.That, I think, that gives some sense of why, at that moment, is Ayn Rand writing the Galt speech? Because this is the background. We're in the Cold War, and there's this looming sense of the cold, dead hand of bureaucracy and managerialism is. Other people are saying, "Actually, this might be a serious problem."Hollis: I think that's right. Thank you for bringing up Whyte. I think there's so much in the background. There's so much that she's in conversation with. There's so much about this speech, so that when you ask somebody on the street-- Again, let me say this, make the comparison again to Uncle Tom's Cabin, people go through life feeling like they know Uncle Tom's Cabin, Simon Legree, Eliza Crossing the Ice, without having ever read it.Not to name drop a bit, but when I did my annotated Uncle Tom's Cabin, this big, huge book, and it got reviewed by John Updike in The New Yorker, and I was like, "This is freaking John Updike." He's like, "I never read it. I never read it." Henry Louis Gates and then whoever this young grad student was, Hollis Robbins, are writing this book, I guess I'll read it. It was interesting to me, when I talk about Uncle Tom's Cabin, "I've never read it," because it's a book you know about without reading. A lot of people know about Atlas Shrugged without having read it. I think Marc Andreessen said-- didn't he say on this podcast that he only recently read it?Henry: I was fascinated by this. He read it four years ago.Hollis: Right, during COVID.Henry: In the bibliography for the Techno-Optimist Manifesto, and I assumed he was one of those people, he was like you, he'd read it as a teenager, it had been informative. No, he came to it very recently. Something's happening with this book, right?Hollis: Huge things are happening, but the people who know about it, there's certain things that you know, you know it's long, you know that the sex is perhaps not what you would have wanted. You know that there's this big, really long thing called John Galt's Speech, and that it's like the whaling chapters in Moby-Dick. People read Moby-Dick, you're like, "Oh, yes, but I skipped all the chapters on cetology." That's the thing that you say, right? The thing that you say is like, "Yes, but I skipped all the John Galt's Speech." I was very interested when we were texting over the last month or so, what you would say when you got to John Galt's Speech. As on cue, one day, I get this text and it's like, "Oh, my God, this speech is really long." I'm like, "Yes, you are the perfect reader."Henry: I was like, "Hollis, this might be where I drop out of the book."Hollis: I'm like, "Yes, you and the world, okay?" This is why you're an excellent reader of this book, because it is a frigging slog. Just because I'm having eye issues these days, I had decided instead of rereading my copy, and I do have a newer copy than this tiny print thing, I decided to listen on audiobook. It was 62 hours or whatever, it was 45 hours, because I listen at 1.4. The speech is awesome listening to it. It, at 1.4, it's not quite 3 hours. It's really good. In the last few days, I was listening to it again, okay? I really wanted to understand somebody who's such a good plotter, and somebody who really understands how to keep people's interest, why are you doing this, Rand? Why are you doing this, Ms. Rand? I love the fact that she's always called Miss. Rand, because Miss., that is a term that we

This week, scholar Marilyn Sanders Mobley visits the AWM to discuss her book Toni Morrison and the Geopoetics of Place, Race, and Be/longing, which Henry Louis Gates, Jr. calls a “powerful and learned meditation, and one that deserves a prominent place in the field of Morrison studies.” Mobley is joined in conversation by poet Parneshia [...]

This week, scholar Marilyn Sanders Mobley visits the AWM to discuss her book Toni Morrison and the Geopoetics of Place, Race, and Be/longing, which Henry Louis Gates, Jr. calls a "powerful and learned meditation, and one that deserves a prominent place in the field of Morrison studies." Mobley is joined in conversation by poet Parneshia Jones. This conversation originally took place October 15, 2024 and was recorded live at the American Writers Museum.AWM PODCAST NETWORK HOMEMore about Toni Morrison and the Geopoetics of Place, Race, and Be/longing:Toni Morrison's readers and critics typically focus more on the “what” than the “how” of her writing. In Toni Morrison and the Geopoetics of Place, Race, and Be/longing, Marilyn Sanders Mobley analyzes Morrison's expressed narrative intention of providing “spaces for the reader” to help us understand the narrative strategies in her work.Mobley's approach is as interdisciplinary, intersectional, nuanced, and complex as Morrison's. She combines textual analysis with a study of Morrison's cultural politics and narrative poetics and describes how Morrison engages with both history and the present political moment.Informed by research in geocriticism, spatial literary studies, African American literary studies, and Black feminist studies at the intersection of poetics and cultural politics, Mobley identifies four narrative strategies that illuminate how Morrison creates such spaces in her fiction; what these spaces say about her understanding of place, race, and belonging; and how they constitute a way to read and re-read her work.MARILYN SANDERS MOBLEY is Emerita Professor of English and African American Studies at Case Western Reserve University in Cleveland, Ohio. She is the author of Folk Roots and Mythic Wings in Sarah Orne Jewett and Toni Morrison: The Cultural Function of Narrative and a spiritual memoir, The Strawberry Room, and Other Places Where a Woman Finds Herself.PARNESHIA JONES studied creative writing at Chicago State University and earned an MFA from Spalding University. Her first book Vessel (2015) was the winner of the Midwest Book Award and featured in O, The Oprah Magazine as one of 12 poetry books to savor for National Poetry Month. Her poems have been published in anthologies such as The Ringing Ear: Black Poets Lean South (2007), Poetry Speaks Who I Am (2010), and She Walks in Beauty: A Woman's Journey Through Poems (2011), edited by Caroline Kennedy. Jones serves on the boards of Cave Canem and the Guild Complex and the advisory board for UniVerse: A United Nations of Poetry. She is the director of Northwestern University Press.

Henry Louis Gates, Jr. is a renowned historian, author, scholar, filmmaker, and is the Director of the Hutchins Center for African and African American Research at Harvard University. This week, Gates joins host Charlotte Alter and reflects on his formative years in the working-class mill town of Piedmont, West Virginia, his early education during the pivotal era of school desegregation, and his experiences watching the civil rights movement unfold in America. The pair delve into the power of genealogy, as Gates shares insights from his groundbreaking series "Finding Your Roots," and discusses how uncovering family histories can provide profound understanding of American heritage, individual identity, and the interconnectedness of all people beneath the surface of skin color. In discussing Gates' latest book, “The Black Box: Writing The Race,” the pair unpack the significance of "checking boxes” in today's shifting landscape of racial discourse and cultural identity, the history and future of affirmative action, and how the backlash to America's first Black presidency has impacted how Gates teaches African American studies. Tune in for a deeply informative look into the narratives that shape our understanding of race, history, and ourselves.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

In Part 2 of our conversation on 20-Minute Health Talk, Sandra Lindsay, RN, continues the discussion with the creators of HBO's One South: Portrait of a Psych Unit and clinical psychologist Laura Braider, PhD. This episode dives deeper into the therapeutic skills highlighted in the documentary, including radical acceptance, mindfulness, and opposite action. Dr. Braider and filmmakers Alexandra Shiva and Lindsey Megrue explain how these techniques are not only helping patients at One South but can also be applied to everyday life to manage stress, anxiety, and emotional challenges. They also explore the impact on staff and what Dr. Braider's team does to cope.  Meet our guests Laura Braider, PhD, clinical psychologist and associate vice president of behavioral health at Northwell Health; associate vice president of Northwell's Behavioral Health College Partnership Alexandra Shiva is an award-winning filmmaker and co-founder of Gidalya Pictures. She is known for her compelling documentaries highlighting social issues and human stories, including One South (2024), How to Dance in Ohio (2015) and more. Lindsey Megrue is a producer with Gidalya Pictures. Also a director, she is known for her work on films like One South (2024), We Are Witnesses (2017), and Finding Your Roots with Henry Louis Gates, Jr. (2012).

Jamila Wignot is an award-winning documentary filmmaker. Her body of work includes, the Emmy-nominated MAKERS: WOMEN IN BUSINESS; THE AFRICAN AMERICANS: MANY RIVERS TO CROSS, hosted by Henry Louis Gates, which won a Peabody, Emmy, and NAACP awards; TOWN HALL a feature-length co-production with ITVS about the Tea Party movement; and for AMERICAN EXPERIENCE the Peabody Award-winning, "Triangle Fire" and Emmy-nominated "Walt Whitman". Wignot's producing credits include “The Rehnquist Revolution,” the fourth episode of WNET's series THE SUPREME COURT which was an IDA Best Limited Series winner and STREET FIGHTING MAN, character-driven documentary, currently in post-production, about the daily lives of three men surviving in the neighborhoods of post-industrial Detroit.

Today on Up In Your Business you will be swept away as art history professor Gayle Seymour, Associate Dean at the University of Central Arkansas in Conway, teaches us about Arkansas's history and culture. Gayle wrote the grant that led to the 60-year Central High Little Rock Nine reunion where President Bill Clinton was the keynote speaker. We will hear how Gayle commissioned the Cuban born composer, Tania Leon, to score a dramatic opera about the “Little Rock Nine” and enlisted Henry Louis Gates to write the libretto (words). This project has been stalled due to the pandemic of 2020, but we will preview a little of the opera on today's show. We will also learn about Japanese American Internment art and get an excerpt from its most famous Arkansas resident Star Trek's Mr. Sulu, George Takei. Other areas of Gayle's expertise inclued American art, Women in Art, and my favorite, Depression-era post office murals (think Norman Rockwell on a wall). Over 1400 murals were painted during the 1930's and 40's, as part of the New Deal, nineteen of which are located in Arkansas. And if that is not enough, she is an avid collector of antique Dolls! Listen and get a lesson on an array of interesting topics from this very interesting person.

In this episode of 20-Minute Health Talk, Sandra Lindsay, RN, sits down with the filmmakers of HBO's groundbreaking documentary series One South: Portrait of a Psych Unit.  Also joining them is one of the clinicians featured in the doc, Laura Braider, PhD. Together, they explore the origins of this powerful two-part series, the challenges of working in an in-patient psychiatric unit, and the vital role of Northwell's unique Behavioral Health College Partnership at Zucker Hillside Hospital. You'll hear what it's really like for patients, healthcare providers — and filmmakers — inside this psych unit, and how the documentary is shedding light on mental health care like never before.   Meet our guests Laura Braider, PhD, clinical psychologist and associate vice president of behavioral health at Northwell Health; associate vice president of Northwell's Behavioral Health College Partnership Alexandra Shiva is an award-winning filmmaker and co-founder of Gidalya Pictures. She is known for her compelling documentaries that highlight social issues and human stories, including One South (2024), How to Dance in Ohio (2015) and more. Lindsey Megrue is a producer with Gidalya Pictures. Also a director, she is known for her work on films like One South (2024), We Are Witnesses (2017), and Finding Your Roots with Henry Louis Gates, Jr. (2012). More on One South Media coverage Press release: Northwell Health featured in new HBO original two-part documentary.  One South: A psychiatric unit and a documentary. Read more. Watch episodes of 20-Minute Health Talk on YouTube.  For information on our more than 100 medical specialties, visit Northwell.edu and follow us @NorthwellHealth on Facebook, Instagram, X and LinkedIn. Interested in a career at Northwell Health? Visit http://bit.ly/2Z7iHFL and explore our many opportunities.   Facebook –   / northwellhealth   Instagram -   / northwellhealth   X - https://www.x.com/northwellhealth LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin/northwellhealth

For this "Summer Friday" we've put together some of our favorite conversations this year:Fareed Zakaria, Washington Post columnist, host of CNN's Fareed Zakaria GPS, and the author of Age of Revolutions: Progress and Backlash from 1600 to the Present (W. W. Norton & Company, 2024), looks back at other turbulent eras for insights into navigating this one.Henry Louis Gates, Jr., Alphonse Fletcher university professor and director of the Hutchins Center for African and African American Research at Harvard University, host of "Finding Your Roots" on PBS and that author of The Black Box: Writing the Race (Penguin Press, 2024), talks about his new book that examines the history of Black self-definition.Judith Butler, professor at UC-Berkeley and the author of several books, including Gender Trouble and their latest, Who's Afraid of Gender? (Macmillan, 2024), talks about her pioneering academic work on the concept of gender and how fraught, and misunderstood, the topic has become.Appliances are rarely built to last, but many from the past are still as good as new. Anna Kramer, technology and climate journalist, author of the newsletter, "Bite into this," talks about her Atlantic article "KitchenAid Did It Right 87 Years Ago" as listeners call in to share which gadgets and technologies have survived years of use in their homes. These interviews were polished up and edited for time, the original versions are available here:Revolutionary Eras, Then and Now (May 21, 2024)Defining 'Blackness' Through Literature (Mar 22, 2024)Judith Butler on Gender (Apr 4, 2024)Appliances That Lasted (Mar 1, 2024)

Next up in our summer playlist, we bring you an episode of The Kitchen Sisters Present, a podcast featuring sound-rich stories ‘from the b-side of history.' This one is a musical treat! The Kitchen Sisters delve into the story of the founding of the Hiphop Archive and Research Institute at Harvard by Dr. Marcyliena Morgan, Professor of African and African American Studies and Professor Henry Louis Gates to “facilitate and encourage the pursuit of knowledge, art, culture, scholarship and responsible leadership through Hiphop.” You'll hear from Professor Morgan, Professor Gates, Nas, Nas Fellow Patrick Douthit aka 9th Wonder, The Hiphop Fellows working at the Archive, an array of Harvard archivists, and students studying at the Archive as well as the records, music and voices being preserved there.Then they take a look at the Cornell University Hip Hop Collection, founded in 2007, through a sampling of stories from Assistant Curator Jeff Ortiz, Johan Kugelberg author of “Born in the Bronx,” and hip hop pioneers Grandmaster Caz, Pebblee Poo, Roxanne Shante and more.This episode is part of The Kitchen Sisters' series THE KEEPERS—stories of activist archivists, rogue librarians, curators, collectors and historians—keepers of the culture and the cultures and collections they keep.We end this guest-feature with a short interview with the Smithsonian's Dwandalyn R. Reece, Curator of Music and Performing Arts at the Smithsonian's National Museum of African American History and Culture. She and Lizzie talk about the process behind the creation of The Smithsonian Anthology of Hip-Hop and Rap. Special Thanks: At The Hiphop Archive at Harvard: Dr. Marcyliena Morgan, Executive Director and Professor of African and African American Studies + Dr. Henry Louis Gates, Jr., Alphonse Fletcher University Professor and Director of the Hutchins Center for African and African American Research + 9th Wonder (Patrick Douthit) + Harold Shawn + Harry Allen + Professor Tommie Shelby + Michael Davis + Brionna Atkins + Justin Porter + Robert Rush. At the Loeb Music Library: Josh Cantor + Sarah Adams. At the Hip Hop Collection, Cornell University Library: Ben Ortiz. At NPR: Rodney Carmichael. At large: Jeff Chang + Pedro Coen + NasThe Keepers is produced by The Kitchen Sisters, Davia Nelson & Nikki Silva, with Nathan Dalton and Brandi Howell.The Keepers Sonic Signature music is by Moondog.For more of The Kitchen Sisters Present, visit kitchensisters.org.

Alan Minskoff tells host Jo Reed that what makes Golden Voice Dominic Hoffman such a fine narrator is the clarity of his delivery and his vocal agility. He sounds like he is inside Henry Louis Gates, Jr.'s, brilliant mind, and he moves adroitly from the author's knowing perspective to “signifying” in the style of African American folklore. Through this work, subtitled “Writing the Race,” historian, filmmaker, and PBS host Gates gives the listener a distinct frame through which to view African American history. This fine audiobook adds to the Harvard historian's exceptional body of work. Read the full review of the audiobook on AudioFile's website. Published by Penguin Audio. Discover thousands of audiobook reviews and more at AudioFile's website. Support for AudioFile's Behind the Mic comes from HarperCollins Focus, and HarperCollins Christian Publishing, publishers of some of your favorite audiobooks and authors, including Reba McEntire, Zachary Levi, Kathie Lee Gifford, Max Lucado, Willie Nelson, and so many more! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Emmy-winning documentarian and author Henry Louis Gates, Jr. recalls his years at Yale University and the ideological bullies who tried to tell him how to be Black. With his new book “The Black Box” Gates aims to vanquish those bullies and help young Black people avoid the anxiety and angst that his generation suffered. “The Black Box” is available everywhere now. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Stacey Holman is Series Producer & Director of the new four-part PBS documentary series, Gospel. She's a Harlem-based filmmaker who has directed and/or produced a number of award-winning projects including an episode of the 2018 PBS series Reconstruction: America After the Civil War hosted by Henry Louis Gates, Jr. She was a producer on the critically acclaimed documentary Tell Them We Are Rising: The Story of Black Colleges and Universities, and she was an Associate Producer on the Emmy award-winning film Freedom Riders.   See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Henry Louis Gates, Jr. is a renowned historian, author, scholar, filmmaker, and is the Director of the Hutchins Center for African and African American Research at Harvard University. This week, Gates joins host Charlotte Alter and reflects on his formative years in the working-class mill town of Piedmont, West Virginia, his early education during the pivotal era of school desegregation, and his experiences watching the civil rights movement unfold in America. The pair delve into the power of genealogy, as Gates shares insights from his groundbreaking series "Finding Your Roots," and discusses how uncovering family histories can provide profound understanding of American heritage, individual identity, and the interconnectedness of all people beneath the surface of skin color. In discussing Gates' latest book, “The Black Box: Writing The Race,” the pair unpack the significance of "checking boxes” in today's shifting landscape of racial discourse and cultural identity, the history and future of affirmative action, and how the backlash to America's first Black presidency has impacted how Gates teaches African American studies. Tune in for a deeply informative look into the narratives that shape our understanding of race, history, and ourselves.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Henry Louis Gates, Jr., Alphonse Fletcher university professor and director of the Hutchins Center for African and African American Research at Harvard University, host of "Finding Your Roots" on PBS and the author of The Black Box: Writing the Race (Penguin Press, 2024), talks about his new book that examines the history of Black self-definition through literature.

In this episode, we welcome Kristen V. Carter, award-winning executive producer, entrepreneur, and speaker to discuss navigating the workplace with power & vulnerability. While many may view the words “power” and “vulnerability” as diametrically opposed, we do not in the Black Woman Leading world!  Acknowledging that some Black women have found it risky to show vulnerability in the workplace, Kristen shares her experience with this from her work as a showrunner and executive producer leading high-profile projects. Additionally, she shares negotiation tips that have helped her to secure great visibility in the entertainment industry, and she provides specific wisdom gems for our early career listeners.   Finally, Kristen shares behind-the-scenes highlights from her most recent project, GOSPEL Live! presented by Henry Louis Gates, Jr. on PBS, and some personal notes on how she is embracing our season five theme of our evolving identity.    About Kristen V. Carter Kristen V. Carter is an award-winning executive producer, entrepreneur and speaker from Newark, New Jersey. Currently, Kristen serves as Showrunner and Executive Producer for the upcoming live gospel music celebration entitled GOSPEL Live! Presented by Henry Louis Gates, Jr. that airs on PBS in February 2024. In 2022, Kristen served as an Executive Producer for the Discovery Plus four-part documentary series Profiled: The Black Man about debunking stereotypes that Black men in America face in society. The series received special recognition from the Television Academy for social justice content.  Notably, Kristen directed and showran Chase's digital financial literacy series Hart of It All which starred Kevin Hart. Within her dual role as Showrunner and Director, she developed the series format while simultaneously overseeing creative execution from pre-production to post. She enjoys contributing to social impact programming including the 2019 Facebook live stream event National Day of Racial Healing, curated by Ava DuVernay, and the 2020 Virtual Commencement special Show Me Your Walk: HBCU Edition, which featured President Barack Obama as the honored commencement speaker.  In addition to entertainment, Kristen is actively engaged in mentorship and empowering students and professionals about self-actualization. Kristen is the founder of Trust Your Magic™, an inspirational brand that reinforces the power of honoring one's gifts and talents. She hosts a podcast of the same name that features guests who have taken a significant leap of faith to shift their lives. Through the brand, she also facilitates an interactive workshop for freelancers and emerging entrepreneurs to catapult their lives and become six figure-plus earners.    Connect with Kristen: Website: www.kristenvcarter.com Instagram: @kristenvcarter  FB: https://www.facebook.com/KristenVCarter Upcoming events Join us for the Black Woman Leading LIVE! Conference +Retreat, May 13-16, 2024 in Virginia Beach! Learn more at bwlretreat.com Credits: Learn more about our consulting work with organizations at https://knightsconsultinggroup.com/ Email Laura: laura@knightsconsultinggroup.com Connect with Laura on LinkedIn Follow BWL on LinkedIn Instagram: @blackwomanleading Facebook: @blackwomanleading Podcast Music & Production: Marshall Knights  Graphics: Te'a Campbell Listen and follow the podcast on all major platforms: Apple Podcasts Spotify Stitcher iHeartRadio Audible Podbay  

This week, Liberty and Jeff discuss Memory Piece, James, Next Stop, and more great books! Subscribe to All the Books! using RSS, Apple Podcasts, or Spotify and never miss a book. Sign up for the weekly New Books! newsletter for even more new book news. Want to make your book club the best club? Sign up for our In the Club newsletter. In the Club will deliver recommendations for the best books to discuss in your book clubs. From buzzy new releases to brilliant throwbacks, the books highlighted in this newsletter will drive your book club discussions. We'll also share some book club-friendly recipes and interesting bookish updates from all over. If you become a paid subscriber, you get even more recommendations plus community features. In other words, we'll keep you well-met, well-read, and well-fed. Sign up today! This content contains affiliate links. When you buy through these links, we may earn an affiliate commission. Books Discussed On the Show: Memory Piece by Lisa Ko James by Percival Everett Next Stop by Debbie Fong The Black Box: Writing the Race by Henry Louis Gates, Jr. The Stars Turned Inside Out by Nova Jacobs The Asteroid Hunter: A Scientist's Journey to the Dawn of our Solar System by Dante S. Lauretta The Mars House by Natasha Pulley The Morningside by Téa Obreht For a complete list of books discussed in this episode, visit our website. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Twenty years ago, Harvard University's Henry Louis Gates, Jr. found, verified, and published what proved to be the first novel written by an African American woman in America: The Bondswoman's Narrative by Hannah Crafts. However, little to nothing was known about Crafts' own life--until now. Mark Smith is joined by Furman University's Gregg Hecimovich, author of The Life and Times of Hannah Crafts: The True Story of The Bondwoman's Narrative, to discuss her remarkable life, the story of his work to piece together Crafts' biography, and the complexity of social interactions in the Old South.

Faubourg Brewing, formerly Dixie Beer, has deep roots in New Orleans. Its new owner, a private equity firm, announced last fall that they would scale back operations locally due to crime and utility costs.  The decision left a lot of employees and beer fans scratching their heads, including Drew Hawkins, reporter at the Gulf States Newsroom. He recently published an investigation into the decision to close Faubourg for Antigravity Magazine and the Louisiana Illuminator. He joins Louisiana Considered to share his findings.  The PBS docuseries “Gospel” hosted by Harvard scholar, executive producer and writer Dr. Henry Louis Gates, Jr. takes viewers on a journey that brings to life the rich history of Black spirituality through Sunday sermons and song. Gates talks with clergymen, scholars and singers about their connection to this African American art form of prayer and praise that also embraces elements of blues and jazz. New Orleans is known around the globe as the cradle of jazz. We caught up with singer Charmaine Neville, daughter of the late Charles Neville of the famed Neville Brothers to find out how gospel music informed her musical career. ____ Today's episode of Louisiana Considered was hosted by [host]. Our managing producer is Alana Schreiber; our contributing producers are Matt Bloom and Adam Vos; we receive production and technical support from Garrett Pittman and our assistant producer, Aubry Procell. You can listen to Louisiana Considered Monday through Friday at 12:00 and 7:00 pm. It's available on Spotify, Google Play, and wherever you get your podcasts.  Louisiana Considered wants to hear from you! Please fill out our pitch line to let us know what kinds of story ideas you have for our show. And while you're at it, fill out our listener survey! We want to keep bringing you the kinds of conversations you'd like to listen to. Louisiana Considered is made possible with support from our listeners. Thank you!See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

For New Orleans-based film composer Sultana Isham, plunging into research on her subject matter is as important as creating her score. Trained as a classical violinist, she moved from her native Virginia to New Orleans to steep herself in one of her passions, the peoples, history and culture of Créolité throughout the Americas and abroad. Once in New Orleans, Sultana Initially busked in various venues around New Orleans and then started playing with Les Cenelles, an ensemble devoted to Creole folk music and work by composers of color. She began to write her own pieces, and in 2017 she put out her first EP, “Blood Moon,” a mixture of avant-garde classical and pop fusion, attracting the attention of director Zandashé Brown, who hired her to write the score for the horror short “Blood Runs Down.” Other directors soon came knocking on her door.Director Angela Tucker hired her to be both researcher and composer on the documentary, “All Skinfolk Ain't Kinfolk,” a PBS documentary about a historic New Orleans mayoral race between two Black women. Among Sultana's other credits are “The Neutral Ground,” which also aired on PBS and received an Emmy nomination for best historical documentary, and the PBS series “Making Black America,” narrated by Dr. Henry Louis Gates, Jr.Sultana's scholarship continues unabated. LSU Press is developing an essay she co-wrote with Dr. Denise Frazier – “Mémwa Nwa: Agency, Sound and Women in AfroCreole Louisiana Folk Music” – into a book. A month before this interview, she concluded her residency at Ace Hotel New Orleans by co-curating an exhibit titled “Them Handy Sisters,” celebrating the careers of noted performers and musicologists Dr. Geneva Handy Southall and D. Antoinette Handy.Here, Sultana explains how she developed her musical skills hand-in-hand with her research practice and why heeding her heart and feeding her curiosity continue to open incredible new doors for her.https://www.sultanaisham.com/

On this special edition of All Sides Weekend with Christopher Purdy, we're discussing the upcoming PBS documentary Gospel hosted by Henry Louis Gates and tracing the history and art of gospel music in central Ohio.

On this special edition of All Sides Weekend with Christopher Purdy, we're discussing the upcoming PBS documentary Gospel hosted by Henry Louis Gates and tracing the history and art of gospel music in central Ohio.

PBS and WHRO-TV 15 proudly present "Gospel", the latest docu-series by Dr. Henry Louis Gates. In "Gospel", Gates digs deep into the origin story of Black spirituality through sermon and song. The docu-series airs February 12-13 on WHRO-TV 15. Another View is working in partnership with Norfolk State University's public radio station, 91.1 WNSB-FM to explore the history of gospel music and its impact upon our society today.

What does the witchhunt against Harvard President Claudine Gay have to do with the Obama Beer Summit?  Quite a lot.  More at proleftpod.com Support the show:PayPal |  https://paypal.me/proleftpodcastPatreon | https://patreon.com/proleftpodOur YouTube ChannelOpening and Closing Music:Jumpin Boogie Woogie by Audionautix | http://audionautix.com/|Creative Commons — Attribution 3.0 Unported — CC BY 3.0Free Download / Stream: https://bit.ly/jumpin-boogie-woogieMusic promoted by Audio Library | https://youtu.be/S2wYQlC0UswCreative Commons Music by Jason Shaw on Audionautix.comSupport the show

In 2001, Henry Louis Gates announced the discovery of an unpublished novel called The Bondswoman's Narrative, written in the 1850s by an enslaved woman named Hannah Crafts. If Gates had the authorship right, it would be the oldest known novel by an African-American woman. But many people doubted the book's authorship. In 2013, however, Gregg Hecimovich produced evidence that The Bondswoman's Narrative was indeed written by a black woman in the1850s. Hannah Crafts, he demonstrated, was the pen name of Hannah Bonds, who escaped from slavery in North Carolina. Dr. Hecimovich's new book is The Life and Times of Hannah Crafts: The True Story of The Bondswoman's Narrative. It's a biography of Hannah Bonds. It's also a detective story, telling how Gregg Hecimovich and many others uncovered the fascinating true story behind Hannah Bonds's fictional story.Support the show: https://therabbitroom.givingfuel.com/memberSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Today Trae connects with Kathleen Hosfeld, the CEO and Executive Director of Homestead Community Land Trust. She'll talk about the work of Homestead, and share some exciting information about an event they are having with Henry Louis Gates this week.

Meek Mill, historian Henry Louis Gates, Patriots owner Robert Kraft and NAACP President Derrick Johnson engage in a panel discussion moderated by Fox Sports' Joy Taylor at the 114th NAACP Convention in Boston.Advertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brandsPrivacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy

On Sundays this summer, we're bringing you some of our favorite episodes from the archives. We'll continue to do new episodes on Tuesdays and Thursdays. Happy summer! /// It's July 25th. This day (July 24th in fact) in 2009, President Obama extended an invitation to Henry Louis Gates, Jr and Sgt James Crowley to discuss an incident in which Crowley arrested Gates on his own doorstep. Jody, Niki, and Kellie discuss the incident that sparked this attempt at reconciliation, and how Obama's handling of the moment was a turning point for many white Americans in how they viewed his presidency. Find a transcript of this episode at: https://tinyurl.com/esoterichistory This Day In Esoteric Political History is a proud member of Radiotopia from PRX. Your support helps foster independent, artist-owned podcasts and award-winning stories. If you want to support the show directly, you can do so on our website: ThisDayPod.com Get in touch if you have any ideas for future topics, or just want to say hello. Our website is thisdaypod.com Follow us on social @thisdaypod Our team: Jacob Feldman, Researcher/Producer; Brittani Brown, Producer; Khawla Nakua, Transcripts; music by Teen Daze and Blue Dot Sessions; Julie Shapiro, Executive Producer at Radiotopia

Jeh Johnson is a partner in the law firm of Paul, Weiss, Rifkind, Wharton & Garrison, LLP and the former Secretary of Homeland Security (2013-2017), General Counsel of the Department of Defense (2009-2012), General Counsel of the Department of the Air Force (1998-2001), and an Assistant United States Attorney in the Southern District of New York (1989-1991). In private life, in addition to practicing law, Johnson is on the board of directors of Lockheed Martin, U.S. Steel, MetLife, the Council on Foreign Relations, the 9/11 Memorial and Museum in New York City, and is a trustee of Columbia University. Johnson is frequent commentator on national and homeland security matters on NBC, CBS, MSNBC, CNN, FOX, CNBC, NPR, Bloomberg TV and other news networks, and has written op-eds in The Washington Post, The Wall Street Journal, The Hill, Lawfare, and elsewhere.  As of March 2022, Johnson also hosts a classic R&B radio show on FM public radio station WBGO, 88.3FM, based in Newark, NJ.   As Secretary of Homeland Security, Johnson was the head of the third largest cabinet department of the U.S. government, consisting of 230,000 personnel and 22 components, including TSA, Customs and Border Protection, Immigration and Customs Services, U.S Citizenship and Immigration Services, the Coast Guard, the Secret Service, and FEMA. Johnson's responsibilities as Secretary included counterterrorism, cybersecurity, aviation security, border security, port security, maritime security, protection of our national leaders, the detection of chemical, biological and nuclear threats to the homeland, and response to natural disasters.  In three years as Secretary of DHS, Johnson is credited with management reform of the Department, which brought about a more centralized approach to decision-making in the areas of budgets, acquisition and overall policy.  Johnson also raised employee morale across the Department, reflected in the September 2016 Federal Employee Viewpoint Survey.  As General Counsel of the Department of Defense, Johnson is credited with being the legal architect for the U.S. military's counterterrorism efforts in the Obama Administration.  In 2010, Johnson co-authored the report that paved the way for the repeal of the Don't Ask, Don't Tell by Congress later that year. In his book Duty, former Secretary of Defense Robert Gates wrote that Johnson "proved to be the finest lawyer I ever worked with in government - a straightforward, plain-speaking man of great integrity, with common sense to burn and a good sense of humor."  According to published reports, Johnson provided the opinion that was the legal basis for U.S. special forces to enter Pakistan to kill Osama bin Laden on May 1, 2011.    Johnson is a 2022 recipient of the Ellis Island Medal of Honor, a 2021 recipient of the American Lawyer's Lifetime Achievement Award, as “an American statesman [who] has devoted his career to the public interest,” and a 2018 recipient of the Ronald Reagan Peace Through Strength Award, presented at the Reagan Presidential Library, for “contribut[ing] greatly to the defense of our nation,” and “guiding us through turbulent times with courage and wisdom.”  In 2020 the Chief Judge of New York State asked Johnson to conduct a comprehensive review of equal justice in the New York State courts.  On October 1, 2020 Johnson issued a public report with his findings and recommendations, all of which the Chief Judge has committed to adopting.  Johnson has debated at both the Cambridge and Oxford Unions in England, and in November 2019 was conferred honorary life membership in the Cambridge Union.  Johnson is a graduate of Morehouse College (1979) and Columbia Law School (1982) and the recipient of 13 honorary degrees.   Johnson married “the girl next-door,” literally, Dr. Susan DiMarco, in 1994. Susan is a retired dentist, a volunteer at the southern border and in numerous other activities, and, at the request of the U.S. Navy, is the sponsor of the Virginia-class submarine USS NEW JERSEY (SSN-796).  In February 2023, Johnson and his family history were profiled on an episode of PBS' Finding Your Roots. For Jazz fans, tune into “All Things Soul with Jeh Johnson", once a month on Saturdays from 8 – 10 am on WBGO 88.3 FM.   On this episode, Secretary Johnson shares his one way ticket to Birmingham, Alabama on May 20, 1961, to resume the Freedom Rides, and highlights the role they had in the US Civil Rights Movement. During the course of our conversation, he also covers his family history as unearthed by Henry Louis Gates on Finding Your Roots, how he approached managing the Department of Homeland Security, concerns about cybersecurity and AI and his love for classic R&B which he features on his radio show.

Actress and star of the must-see movie Monica Trace Lysette is here to talk Somebody Somewhere, Henry Louis Gates on PBS, Kathryn Hahn's Tiny Beautiful Things (or something?) The Jets, Remy Ma, Latto, the importance of a good playlist for a day shooting hoops, FloJo nails, the rollercoaster of awards buzz, the power of kooky writing workshops, and what stories she wants to tell next. 

On this week's Tech Nation, Moira speaks with Pulitzer Prize-winning author, Ed Humes. His latest is “The Forever Witness … How DNA and Genealogy Solved a Cold Case Double Murder.” We get an object lesson in the Three Ages of DNA, and while it reads like a fast-paced Cold Case on steroids – it provides details no fiction writer would dare to make up, like the unexpected involvement of the famous true crimes writer, Ann Rule, and a person whose DNA skills are familiar to fans of the PBS documentary series, “Finding your roots with Henry Louis Gates, Jr.”

For more SLEERICKETS, check out the SECRET SHOW and join the group chat!Wear SLEERICKETS t-shirts and hoodies. They look good!Some of the topics mentioned in this episode:– Out of Order by Alexis Sears– Northwest Review– Heartbreak Ghazal by Alexis Sears– Ode to the Heartbreakers by Alexis Sears– Owning the Masters by Marilyn Nelson– LeRoi Jones/Amiri Baraka– The Atheist by Phillis Wheatley– The Signifying Monkey by Henry Louis Gates, Jr.– The Souls of Black Folk by W. E. B. Du Bois– Flying Home by Ralph Ellison– Sympathy by Paul Laurence Dunbar– I Know Why the Caged Bird Sings by Maya Angelou– Langston Hughes– Husbandry by Matthew Dickman– Bar Napkin Sonnets by Moira Egan– Lapis Lazuli by W. B. Yeats– Phenomenal Woman by Maya Angelou– Still I Rise by Maya Angelou– Both Sides Now by Joni Mitchell (which I mistakenly call Clouds)– Lovejoy Street by A. E. Stallings– The Grapes by Anthony Hecht– Taylor Byas– New Year's by Greg Williamson– Tritina for Susannah by David Yezzi– PoetrySoup.com…– In Memory of Eva Gore-Booth and Con Markiewicz by W. B. Yeats– Stephen Kampa– Adam Vines– The West Branch issue in question– Franz Wright– Ryan Wilson– Zara Raab– Jonathan Farmer– Richie HofmannAlice: Poetry SaysBrian: @BPlatzerCameron: CameronWTC [at] hotmail [dot] comMatthew: sleerickets [at] gmail [dot] comMusic by ETRNLArt by Daniel Alexander SmithMore Ratbag Poetry Pods:Poetry SaysI Hate Matt WallVersecraft

Let's take a look back at my conversation with one f the world's most loved historians, Dr. Henry Louis Gates, Jr. This takes us back to Episode 51 where we discuss his hit show Finding Your Roots and his journey to the show.

Maggie speaks extensively with Film historian, educator and author Donald Bogle is one of the foremost authorities on African Americans in the movies.  With a series of provocative, culturally significant books, Bogle almost single-handedly pioneered the study, appreciation, and value of the work and achievements--as well as the heroic struggles--of Black artists working in films.    With his very first book, Donald Bogle won the Theatre Library Association Award for Film. That book, now in its 5th expanded, updated edition, it is considered a classic study of Black movie images in America and is used in courses at colleges and universities around the country.   Mr. Bogle has also appeared as a commentator on television, including Henry Louis Gates's Peabody award-winning PBS series The African-Americans: Many Rivers to Cross. He also has a long association with Turner Classic Movies and, in his recent book "Hollywood Black: The Stars, The Films, The Filmmakers" (which is a Turner Classic Movies film book) he has continued his pioneering examination of African American film history. Turner Classic Movies pays tribute to our late host, Robert Osborne, with the Robert Osborne Award, presented annually at the TCM Classic Film Festival to an individual whose work has helped preserve the cultural heritage of classic film for future generations. In 2023, TCM honors film historian, author, and professor Donald Bogle for his pioneering studies of African American cinema and his tireless efforts to elevate the achievements of Black performers and filmmakers. Source: https://www.thehistorymakers.org/biography/donald-bogleSource: https://cinemastudies.sas.upenn.edu/people/donald-bogleSource: https://filmfestival.tcm.com/programs/the-robert-osborne-award/Host Maggie LePique, a radio veteran since the 1980's at NPR in Kansas City Mo. She began her radio career in Los Angeles in the early 1990's and has worked for Pacifica station KPFK Radio in Los Angeles since 1994.Support the show

The Brian D. O'Leary Show April 24, 2023 Show notes available: https://briandoleary.substack.com/p/jets-get-a-new-qb-cable-news-loses?sd=pf   Natural Order Podcast   We make mention of our long-anticipated new podcast, the Natural Order Podcast. We've been hard at work putting on the finishing touches. We're up to episode 3 over there. Natural Order Podcast   Packers trade Rodgers to NYJ   Rodgers to Jets Tucker Carlson no longer with Fox News   Tweet mentioned: https://twitter.com/AuronMacintyre/status/1650535142773997568?s=20 Tucker Carlson leaves Fox News in surprise announcement The Guardian calls him a “far-right cable news host.” Laughable. Carlson is a populist, but nowhere near the “far-right.” I wonder what The Guardian would say about The Brian D. O'Leary Show. Don Lemon fired by CNN   Minutes after the Carlson news broke. Lemon needs aid Television show mentioned: Finding Your Roots with Henry Louis Gates, Jr. O'Leary and Company   “our purpose is to guide the entrepreneur on his or her journey…” Fountain.FM   Listen and support us at the same time over at Fountain.FM For all the rest of it, go to BrianDOLeary.com for more information.

The White House bragged about its diverse workplace this week but failed to recognize what the American people are actually concerned about. Jill Biden hinted at a possible re-election campaign for her husband, Joe Biden. A couple of House Democrats are pushing a measure to bar former President Donald Trump and multiple other figures from entering the U.S. Capitol. Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis will boycott media appearances on NBC News and MSNBC shows, according to his press team, until one of the networks' star reporters apologizes for a question she posed about the governor's education policies. Angela Davis, a far-left activist, communist, and former Black Panther, discovered on a recent episode of PBS' "Finding Your Roots with Henry Louis Gates, Jr." that she is descended from the Mayflower pilgrims and that her ancestors were slave owners. These revelations caused some to demand she pay reparations. Today's Sponsors: You can get a FREE report with all the details on how the Bank On Yourself strategy adds guarantees, predictability, and control to your financial plan. Just go to http://www.bankonyourself.com/matters First, you'll receive a FREE bottle of Blood Sugar Formula to reduce sugar cravings. You'll also get four FREE eBooks to support every aspect of your health. Try Liver Health Formula by going to http://www.GetLiverHelp.com/News and claim your FIVE free bonus gifts. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Joe Madison invites Professor Henry Louis "Skip" Gates and special guest Jeh Johnson, the former U.S. Secretary of Homeland Security, preview a brand new episode of Finding Your Roots, premiering Tuesday, February 21 at 8/7c on PBS! In addition to Secretary Johnson, tonight's surprising and fascinating episode features activist Angela Davis.Watch the new episode "And Still I Rise" on PBS: https://www.pbs.org/video/and-still-i-rise-preview/ 

One of the major themes to emerge from the new PBS documentary "The Black Church: This is Our Story, This is Our Song" is the often-overlooked roles Black women play in strengthening that institution.

Dr. Yolanda Pierce, dean of Howard University's Divinity School, describes how women keep the institution of the Black church strong and growing, despite being often unwelcome in the pulpit.

Host Scott Fisher opens the show with David Allen Lambert, Chief Genealogist of the New England Historic Genealogical Society and AmericanAncestors.org.  The guys begin comparing notes on collecting 19th century family photos. Then, in Family Histoire News, word is now out that YOU can be featured in the upcoming year on Finding Your Roots on PBS with friend-of-the-show Dr. Henry Louis Gates. Hear more about it. Next, a new census is indexed and out for Scotland! David has details. In Utah, DNA experts are now involved in identifying the remains of victims of the 1921 Tulsa Race Massacre.  David then talks about a World War II Pearl Harbor survivor who had a marvelous experience on the 81st anniversary of the Japanese attack on December 7. Some Navejo code talkers are now getting their due. David explains. And finally, an article talks about the benefits of recording your ancestors' and relatives' well known quotes. Then, YourDNAGuide, Diahan Southard joins the conversation talking with Fisher about her new PBS special “Your DNA Secrets Revealed.” Diahan, much to her surprise, was selected to host the show. She explains how she was “discovered,” where the show was filmed, and a little about the surprises that will be revealed, and her own enthusiasm for encouraging people to pursue their family's history. Next, Trina Galauner from sponsor Legacy Tree Genealogists visits with Fisher talking about researching Polish ancestry. Eastern Europe has always been a challenge, but Trina has some great tips to help you along and reveals some websites that may give you some very specific answers. David Allen Lambert then rejoins Fisher for another round of Ask Us Anything. That's all this week on Extreme Genes, America's Family History Show!

Joy Reid leads this edition of The ReidOut with the disturbing resurgence of fascism, both at home in the U.S. and abroad. In particular, we highlight the violent rhetoric of Marjorie Taylor Greene and the disturbing, deafening silence of her GOP colleagues when they are asked to denounce that kind of extremist talk. Plus, we illuminate a community in Florida that was hit hard by Hurrican Ian, in part because of what many see as an "environmental Ponzi scheme": Cape Coral, Florida. Our expert guest explains how developers of this community prioritized lifestyle over safety and sustainability--and how this is common across this hurricane-prone state. Then, noted historian and filmmaker Henry Louis Gates joins Joy to talk about his highly-anticipated new PBS series "Making Black America." All this and more in this edition of The ReidOut on MSNBC.

During slavery and throughout Jim Crow laws, Black Americans needed safe havens to escape the “white gaze.” Shayla Harris, Producer/Director of the documentary “Making Black America: Through the Grapevine,” joins guest host Courtney Collins to discuss the networks and towns built for Black people, and the community and safety they brought. The four-part series hosted and written by Henry Louis Gates, Jr., airs on PBS.

This week, John and I are talking about the ten-year anniversary of the Trayvon Martin shooting, one of the most politically consequential events of the 2010s. A decade later, are we in a better place than where we started? John and I begin by discussing the New York Times’s recent package commemorating the event, which features a written piece by Charles Blow and video interviews with Barack Obama, Henry Louis Gates, and Al Sharpton. All of them reinforce the mainstream narrative about Martin’s death—that he had been senselessly attacked by Zimmerman for no reason. Yet much evidence supports Zimmerman’s story: that he shot Martin in self-defense after Martin assaulted him. John discusses how his skepticism toward the mainstream Trayvon Martin narrative contributed to the end of his relationship with The Root. My own skepticism continues to pose challenges for me, as many of my students resist when I ask them to consider the facts of the case rather than the “poetic truth” the case has come to represent. John suggests that we can learn from recalling how the O.J. Simpson trial unfolded. The public story about the trial had more to do with race and the cops than it did with the brutal murder of two innocent people, even if most people now acknowledge that Simpson’s not guilty verdict was mistaken. There are people contesting the mainstream narratives around Martin and Michael Brown, including excellent documentaries by Joel Gilbert and Shelby and Eli Steele. These counternarratives are vital correctives, but where are the consequences for those who continue to push bogus information? And we end with a bit of a palate cleanser, with John taking us through the life and work of Scott Joplin. Is there a way, at this late date, to turn the narratives about Martin, Michael Brown, and others around? How can we turn back the tide unleashed by these events and their political afterlife? Let me know your thoughts. This post is free and available to the public. To receive early access to TGS episodes, an ad-free podcast feed, Q&As, and other exclusive content and benefits, click below.0:00 The NYT commemorates the tenth anniversary of Trayvon Martin’s death 7:20 What really happened between Martin and George Zimmerman? 14:35 How John’s relationship with The Root frayed 19:33 Learning from the O.J. Simpson case 32:24 Trayvon Martin and Michael Brown on the big and small screen 40:55 Where are the consequences for those who get it wrong? 46:00 Remembering Scott JoplinLinks and ReadingsThe NYT’s Trayvon Martin anniversary package Joel Gilbert’s book, The Trayvon Hoax: Unmasking the Witness Fraud That Divided AmericaJoel Gilbert’s documentary, The Trayvon Hoax: Unmasking the Witness Fraud That Divided AmericaEli and Shelby Steele’s documentary, What Killed Michael Brown?Rest in Power: The Trayvon Martin StoryJason Riley’s WSJ opinion piece, “Will Amazon Suppress the True Michael Brown Story?”The 2015 DOJ statement announcing the closure of the investigation of the Trayvon Martin shootingJohn’s NYT piece, “Scott Joplin’s Ragtime Is Ambrosia. Here’s Why It Matters.” This is a public episode. Get access to private episodes at glennloury.substack.com/subscribe