Podcasts about Hype Williams

On this episode of Galaxy of Film, Dakari Holder and Johnny Zuko kick things off with a wild ride through Belly 2: Millionaire Boyz Club—the no-holds-barred sequel that raises eyebrows and questions in equal measure. From its baffling narrative choices to its underground cult status, they pull no punches breaking it all down.Then it's back to where it all started: Hype Williams' iconic Belly. The duo digs into the groundbreaking visuals, the era-defining soundtrack, and the film's lasting influence on hip-hop cinema. With sharp insight and plenty of laughs, this episode balances reverence and real talk in classic Galaxy of Film fashion.Check out Johnny Zuko's @zukoscorner on Tik Tok and Instagram.Find more of our podcasts as well as the rest of our content over on GalaxyOfFilm.comYou can follow us on Instagram, Twitter, and TikTok @GalaxyOfFilm and subscribe to our YouTube channel, Galaxy Of Film Productions!Support our next film by sharing or donating to our Gofundme.Music made by Dakari HolderGraphic design by MC Media

We talk about 1998's Belly, the amazing cinematography by Malik Hassan Sayeed, Hype Williams' music video aesthetic, giant gels and Kino Flos, how the Production Designer and Costume Designer affect the photography of the movie, the legacy of Haile Gerima and more!(This episode is a Patreon Exclusive).

SPONSORS: - Head to https://bubblycleaning.com/Bears to get your first 3 hours of cleaning for only $19. Thanks so much to Bubbly Cleaning for sponsoring this episode! - Head to https://acorns.com/bears or download the Acorns app to get started. - Start your free online visit today at https://Hims.com/BEARS. - Upgrade your wallet today! Get 10% Off @Ridge with code CAVE at https://www.Ridge.com/CAVE #Ridgepod - Order a bottle of Por Osos and some killer merch online https://drinkporosos.com This week on 2 Bears 1 Cave, Tom Segura and Bert Kershire are LIVE from the 2 Bears 5k in Tampa Bay Florida! They aren't alone either, the bears are joined by not one, not two, but three guest bears! Joining Tom and Bert are rapper/running enthusiast N.O.R.E, as well as, former NFL players/Super Bowl champs, Jason Kelce and Beau Allen. The group all get together to talk about the real challenges of the 2 Bears 5k, who the best drinkers are, running, nicknames, dictators, Hype Williams, stupid purchases, and so much more. Enjoy the show! 2 Bears, 1 Cave Ep. 288 https://tomsegura.com/tour https://www.bertbertbert.com/tour https://store.ymhstudios.com Chapters 00:00:00 - Intro 00:04:17 - N.O.R.E 00:14:48 - Japanese Whiskey 00:20:12 - Beau Allen & Jason Kelce 00:26:33 - The Best Drinkers & Worst NFL Matchups 00:35:33 - Nicknames & Dictators 00:42:02 - Hype Williams 00:45:39 - NFL Rookies 00:53:51 - Drinking Before A Big Game 00:58:23 - Stupid Purchases 01:06:16 - Wrap Up Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

“Bully,” the eleventh studio album by Kanye West, now known as Ye, marks a striking return to solo artistry for the controversial rapper and producer. Released on March 18, 2025, and officially uploaded to YouTube on March 21, 2025, this project arrives amid a whirlwind of personal and public turmoil, reflecting both Ye's creative evolution and his unapologetic defiance. The album's title draws inspiration from a personal anecdote involving his son, Saint West, who reportedly kicked another child for being “weak,” a story Ye shared with a mix of amusement and pride in a February 2025 interview with Justin LaBoy. This incident, paired with thematic nods to Larry Clark's 2001 film “Bully”—a tale of teens exacting revenge on an abusive peer—frames the album as a symbolic break from external control, notably Ye's tumultuous history with Adidas, whom he casts as his own metaphorical tormentor.Musically, “Bully” diverges from the collaborative chaos of Ye's recent “Vultures” series with Ty Dolla $ign, embracing a self-produced, introspective soundscape that critics have hailed as his strongest in over a decade. The album blends the soulful patience of his early work, like “The College Dropout,” with the experimental warmth of singles such as “Only One” (2014) and “FourFiveSeconds” (2015). Tracks like “Preacher Man” and “Beauty and the Beast,” previewed in September 2024 at a China listening event, showcase lush samples—from The Supremes' “You Can't Hurry Love” to Cortex's “Huit Octobre 1971”—chopped with a meticulous hand, evoking a nostalgic yet forward-thinking vibe. GQ praised its “rich, warm, even optimistic” tone, a stark contrast to Ye's public persona, suggesting a retreat from the internet's noise into a cloistered creative space.Yet, “Bully” is unmistakably a work in progress. Released initially as a 45-minute short film directed by Ye and edited by Hype Williams, it features Saint battling Japanese wrestlers with a plastic mallet—a surreal visual that mirrors the album's raw, unfinished state. Ye himself admitted on X that it's “not finished and half the vocals AI,” a choice that divides listeners. The AI-generated vocals, often mimicking his “808s & Heartbreak” style, serve as texture rather than substance, occasionally jarring against the otherwise masterful beats. Three versions—“Screening,” “Post Hype,” and “Post Post Hype”—circulated online, with the YouTube release, “BULLY V1,” trimming the tracklist to nine songs, notably dropping “Melrose” featuring Playboi Carti and Ty Dolla $ign amid reported feuds.The album's rollout was overshadowed by Ye's latest social media spiral, rife with antisemitic rants, swastika imagery, and attacks on peers like Jay-Z, Beyoncé, and Kendrick Lamar. An alternative cover featuring a red swastika underscored his provocative stance, aligning with previews like “World War 3,” where he doubles down on his polarizing views. This chaos contrasts sharply with the music's calm, almost serene quality—tracks that narrate betrayal and resilience with a soothing undercurrent, as one X user noted, calling it “the complete opposite of what its title suggests.”Despite the controversy, “Bully” has garnered acclaim for its production, with some fans and critics dubbing it a return to form, even in its rough state. Its unconventional release—bypassing streaming platforms for X and YouTube—reflects Ye's disdain for industry norms, as he decried “fake streams” and “French and Jewish record labels.” Whether it evolves into a polished final product or remains a snapshot of Ye's turbulent 2025, “Bully” stands as a testament to his enduring genius and unrelenting defiance, a paradox of beauty and unrest at the heart of his legacy.

Linktree: https://linktr.ee/AnalyticIn this segment of "Notorious Mass Effect," Analytic Dreamz explores Kanye West's surprise album "Bully," dropped via X with a 45-minute film featuring his son Saint battling New Japan Pro-Wrestling stars. Released March 21, 2025, the soul-sampled project, boasting AI vocals, follows West's antisemitic rants and a swastika T-shirt controversy. Analytic Dreamz dissects its chaotic rollout, Hype Williams' film edits, and industry backlash from Lyor Cohen, spotlighting West's defiance of streaming norms and his call for fan input on future releases.Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/analytic-dreamz-notorious-mass-effect/donationsAdvertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brandsPrivacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy

In honor of DynoWright's birthday this week and coming off seeing Nas: Time Is Illmatic on the big screen at the Colonial Theatre in Phoenixville, PA last week, here is a rebroadcast of our original episode on Belly. The 1998 Hype Williams feature film directorial debut starred Nas and DMX. Original show notes:Your HHMCs review the 1998 film Belly, starring DMX, Nas, Taral Hicks, T-Boz, and Method Man. We'll answer the question: "Will Tommy and Sincere find their higher calling - or will they remain in the underbelly of crime?" Belly on IMDbWhere to Watch: Freevee/Amazon PrimeThe 20 best Hype Williams-directed videos (Billboard)The opening scene (YouTube)"Murder She Wrote" by Chaka Demus & Pliers (YouTube)Cutty Ranks (Spotify)DynoWright's new podcast - Soccer FC: Fandom & CultureFrank Vincent (IMDB)AZ (Wikipedia)Taral Hicks "Silly" (YouTube)Louie Rankin "the Original Don Dada" (IMDB)"Gummo" trailer (YouTube)Nas "It Ain't Hard to Tell (Spotify)Olu Dara "Sincere" (YouTube)Hip Hop Movie Club on:FacebookInstagramThreads Bluesky HipHopMovieClub.comCheck out our live event schedule and more at our Linktree

We explore Missy Elliott's extraordinary legacy, highlighting her rise in the '90s, her groundbreaking style, and her lasting impact on hip hop, dance culture, and female empowerment. Her collaborations with Timbaland and Hype Williams, her influence in making Virginia a hip hop hub, and her iconic music videos are discussed alongside the challenges she faced, including health struggles. We reflect on her prolific output, her career hiatus, and her triumphant return, comparing her contributions to hip hop legends like Busta Rhymes. Missy's influence on modern artists and her role as a trailblazer remain unmatched in the music industry.Songs played - https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLY_nLb6-ciMSLkv-snfoyTI0HxaCn-DQF&si=fH6DDGPDKyZA8HiN

Jay-Z's legendary "I'm not a business man, I'm a Business Man" mindset comes to life in this raw, unfiltered breakdown of how Hov shaped the music industry.

Join Host Shane, Co-Host Russell, Dave, and Special Guest Big Smooth as we DMX Month, with 1998's Belly! Written by Hype Williams, Nas, and Anthony Bodden; Directed by Hype Williams; Starring DMX, Nas, Hassan Johnson, Taral Hicks, Tionne 'T-Boz' Watkins, Oliver 'Power' Grant, Method Man, and more! Join us on Patreon for just $1 per month, and you can help us continue to talk about movies! patreon.com/draftyQ Check out our Amazon Wishlist! Buy stuff for us! https://www.amazon.com/hz/wishlist/ls/322RUIF15J9O0?ref_=wl_share

This week Benny Boom discusses growing up in Philadelphia, how a chance encounter led him to working for Spike Lee's 40 Acres, assisting Hype Williams as AD, directing his first music video for Channel Live, making videos for artists such as Nas, 50 Cent, Busta Rhymes, and so much more! Produced by: Dale Lewis and Luke Bailey for Fly Fidelity Media Art direction: Mango Shark About: Hosted by Luke Bailey, The Fly Fidelity Podcast is a weekly podcast featuring thoughtful, layered, nuanced and authentic conversations with fascinating guests from hip hop and beyond. Patreon: Support The Fly Fidelity Podcast by subscribing to our Patreon and unlock exclusive bonus content. Learn more at Patreon.com/FlyFidelity Contact: luke.bailey@flyfidelity.co.uk

Welcome to session zero of our season 3 actual play Rise of the Vat Spawn where fantasy and hip hop culture are smashed together to create an epic urban adventure.Here we'll discuss what to expect for the season, including format, tone, safety tools, and we'll utilize Mad Dungeon words as we have in our previous seasons.We'll create and introduce the characters (Tiger Wizard, Dragon Warrior, Warlock Roc and Bat Alchemist) using the Mystic Punks RPG system.Steve gave the team his inspirational Appendix N: Nimona, Arcane, Avatar: The Last Airbender, The Legend of Korra, She-Ra and The Princesses of Power, Masters of the Universe, Final Fantasy 7, Studio Ghibli, Fist of the North Star, Ill Bill “War is My Destiny” Video, Wild Style, Style Wars (1983 documentary), Altered Carbon, and Hype Williams videos.Hope you all enjoy this improvised story that we'll create together.ANNOUNCEMENTSDUNGEON CATS: Tiger Wizard's rules-fluffy mini-RPG Dungeon Cats , a game about cats going into dungeons, slaying vile creatures and getting away with the loot, is live on Kickstarter! Back now!GAME FACE CON: Epic Levels will be attending the inaugural Game Face Con in Baltimore on March 9th & 10th! GARY CON: Epic Levels will be attending Gary Con March 21st-24th for Dungeons & Dragons 50th anniversary celebration. FLUKE Mini-Comics & Zine Festival: Epic Levels will be attending this small press festival along with our pals at Mystic Punks RPG. It will be on March 30th in Athens, Georgia at the 40 Watt Club.NEW POSTER MAP: We have a new poster adventure map now available for purchase at Exalted Funeral based on our Mad Dungeon season one, episode 20, Song of the Shriekfrapp, with the legendary Erol Otus—who not only made the adventure with us, but also illustrated the 11×17 front-side poster image! JOIN OUR MAILING LIST by clicking the newsletter button at epiclevelsrapgods.com—Thanks for listening to Season Three of the Epic Levels Mad Dungeon podcast, where D&D hip hop group Epic Levels alternate between “Rise of the Vat Spawn,” an actual play using Mystic Punks RPG, and Side Quests where we interview other game creators.You can support us via Patreon for early episode releases, bonus map content, extra art, access to our discord server, and lots of other exclusive goodies.Get nerd merch and stay up to date with socials: HEREMad Dungeon is hosted by Andrew Bellury, Steve Albertson, Robin Bellury and produced by Zach Cowan.Theme song by Epic Levels and beat by Jay Domingo.© 2024 Epic Levels. All characters in our adventures–even those based on real people–are entirely fictional.

Avantgardistische Elektronika und frickelige Klangexperimente. # Nokogiribiki Weird broadcast radio since 2005. Eine Sendeübernahme von Radio Blau aus Leipzig. * https://nokogiribiki.tumblr.com/

What's good world, we back from the crypt with some more of that hood philosophy shit, and on this episode we got lots to talk about.   For starters, one of the Epstein lists has been released, and rather than talk about the human trafficking element side of it, I go in on the effect it's had on undermining the sovereignty of the United States instead. Don't get me twisted, the trafficking and exploitation of children is unquestionably reprehensible and the sickos that engaged in these actions deserve punishment to the fullest extent imaginable, but belying this is the real root of the problem that some Blue Anon MF'ers are still trying to dismiss.   The US straight up has been bought and sold homie and the hustle only exists cuz our politicians were abusing their power, and that's the issue few are discussing. I got you though, and offer a little hope in the form of ancestral Nahuatl ways that show why such leadership is disgusting as well as how we can potentially fix it so we can build a better world from the smoldering ashes of this one. I close off by pulling a complete 180 and going in on some psychoanalytic film analysis on Belly, as mentioned in the previous episode. That movie is mad philosophical and deserves its flowers in my humble opinion, and DMX and Nas team up with Hype Williams to give us a masterpiece on what it's like to navigate the struggles of the hood. Stay woke fam...

We kick off #noirvember by traveling back to our childhoods with Belly (1998), a hip hop classic directed by industry legend Hype Williams and starring DMX, Nas, T-Boz, Taral Hicks, and Method Man. In this episode, we give Hype his well-deserved flowers, discuss if this movie really depicts Black people in a stereotypical light, and reflect on just how influential this movie has been over the last 25 years. This week's recommendations: Paid In Full (2002) and State Property (2002). Support us with a Ko-fi! ko-fi.com/blackgirlfilmclub Check out the rest of our socials at linktr.ee/blackgirlfilmclub

The Concert Crew celebrates the 25th Anniversary of the movie Belly. Hear the fellas discuss Hype Williams making the transition from directing music videos to films, what the movie Belly did for hip hop culture, how it elevated DMX's star power, where it ranks amongst the hood street movies, our favorite moments, legacy and much more. Also, the Concert Crew reviews new music from Ace Hood, Pee Wee Longway, Lloyd Banks, Black Rob and Jeezy... #ConcertCrew #Podcast #Belly25 #Belly #DMX #NaS #HypeWilliams #MethodMan #TBoz #TaralHicks #TyrinTurner #LouieRankin #BenjaminChavis #NYC #ClassicMovie #Pod #Podcasting #Jeezy #BlackRob #AceHood #PeeWeeLongway #LloydBanks 

Coming off of ACL, the fellas discuss MJ (take your pick – Jackson OR Jordan) as the golden standard for success and why it may hold less water these days. Plus, Confucius and Fresh gush about the Hype Williams classic Belly. Hip-Hop Facts enlightens us on how Fabolous got his name and reflects on the […] The post MJ as the Bar appeared first on KUT & KUTX Studios -- Podcasts.

Join us on an inspiring journey as we delve into the remarkable career of Christian Epps, founder, masterful lighting designer, and cinematographer whose expertise has illuminated the worlds of film, television, theater, music, and events for over four decades. From captivating major motion pictures to creating evocative lighting for live performances, Christian's work has left an indelible mark on the entertainment industry.In this podcast, we explore the diverse realms that Christian Epps has graced with his creative vision. Starting from his early contributions to TV with unforgettable moments like "President Clinton: Live at the White House" and the "Centennial Olympic Games - Badminton Competition," to his hand in shaping cultural events like the "Black Movie Awards," Christian's touch has enlivened screens and stages alike.We delve into the highlights of Christian's career, including his collaboration with celebrated artists like Spike Lee, Ava DuVernay, Bradford Young, Malik Sayeed, and Hype Williams, where his dramatic lighting enhanced the storytelling in iconic films and music videos. From Michael Jackson to P. Diddy, Biggie Smalls to Whitney Houston, Christian's ability to craft visually compelling narratives has made him a sought-after name in the music industry.He worked as the gaffer on 'Belly,' directed by Hype Williams, a seminal music video director. Nike, Facebook, Cadillac, Sprite, McDonald's, Buena Vista Television, GE Capitol, Paramount Studios, Home Depot, ESPN, Buick, Kaiser Permanente, Amtrak, and Panasonic are examples of corporate clients. Not limited to a single medium, Christian's expertise also extends to corporate projects, where he has lent his skills to household names such as Nike, McDonald's, and Disney. His participation in Disney Imagineering's exclusive 'Blue Sky' concept program showcases his innovative thinking and adaptability.As we journey through Christian's career, we uncover his impactful work in international settings, including his pivotal role in shaping Nigeria's entertainment landscape. The "This Day Music Festival" series featuring A-list artists like Beyoncé, Jay-Z, and Rihanna, became a testament to Christian's ability to create dazzling live experiences.We also touch on his numerous accolades, from the prestigious LA Drama Critics' Circle Career Achievement Award to the NAACP Theatre Award, reflecting the depth of his influence and the admiration of his peers.Christian Epps' artistic journey is one of dedication, innovation, and the unwavering pursuit of excellence. Join us as we celebrate the brilliance of a true luminary whose creative brilliance has shone across stages, screens, and continents.Tune in to Visual Intonation as we uncover the stories, insights, and inspirations behind his illustrious career.Mr. Christian Epps Websites & Socials: https://www.lightscameradiaspora.org/https://www.instagram.com/christianepps/https://www.linkedin.com/in/christianeppshttps://twitter.com/christianeppshttps://www.facebook.com/christianepps/https://medium.com/@in2lightVisual Intonation Website: https://www.visualintonations.com/Visual Intonation Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/visualintonation/Vante Gregory's Website: vantegregory.comVante Gregory's Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/directedbyvante/ To support me on Patreon (thank you): patreon.com/visualintonations Tiktok: www.tiktok.com/@visualintonation Tiktok: www.tiktok.com/@directedbyvante

This week's episode of The Personal Party Podcast welcomes Hip Hop Royalty, JoJo Simmons. JoJo relives his New York City College experiences on campus (3:58), Harlem being a huge influence on his upbringing (7:56), and meeting one of the best directors ever, Hype Williams (10:30). JoJo tells a hilarious Run's House behind-the-scenes story (11:40), life-changing benefits of Run's House (24:56), and potential Kodak/21 Savage verzuz matchup (31:20). Then, he mentions heavy influences from wrestling especially The Attitude Era (36:00), when did JoJo realize his pops was him (41:20), and dives in on the importance of mental health, explains self-taught therapy, and more (47:10). Later, the gang discusses the unique progression of marijuana over the years (52:08), Jo's favorite rappers of all time (1:01:18), and his most memorable celebrity interactions (1:05:40). Lastly, Show Broadway's Shoot The Five (1:09:36), details how Run's House way of filming (1:14:00), and shared his thoughts on the mental state of Hip Hop (1:18:21) and much more! SUBSCRIBE for more content from The Personal Party! → https://tinyurl.com/2p9byms6 Business Inquiries: thepersonalpartypodcast@gmail.com LISTEN to the full episodes now on Apple Podcasts - https://tinyurl.com/2p8cvhrr Spotify - https://tinyurl.com/yjfhtnt9 Amazon - https://tinyurl.com/5n8e9mcj Google - https://tinyurl.com/2p96aee5 iHeart Radio - https://tinyurl.com/mr32dh6d Youtube - https://tinyurl.com/pfuc3tr4 WATCH MORE → https://tinyurl.com/4fnntvmu FOLLOW → #ThePersonalPartyPodcast on Social Media! Instagram - https://tinyurl.com/yxfmw4ms Twitter - https://tinyurl.com/2p9bmf6k #ThePersonalPartyPodcast #StateProperty #SmokeDZA #ShowBroadway #JoJoSimmons #RunsHouse #RevRun #RunDMC

What's the role of a music video today? In the 1980s, music videos flipped the industry thanks to MTV. Videos helped artists like Michael Jackson and Madonna become cultural icons. Record labels spent millions on music videos to promote their CD sales. Everyone was winning.Music videos don't hold the same power today in the streaming era. The budgets are smaller, but they still get made. To break it all down, I was joined by MIDiA Research analyst Tati Cirisano. Here's what we covered:0:52 What is the role of a music video today?2:15 MTV's role in music videos7:46 Comparisons to TikTok11:27 Music video budgets peaked in mid-90s14:30 Napster changed everything17:27 Music videos as career launchpads18:50 YouTube revitalizes music videos25:44 Range of video budgets 31:04 Big dollars going to documentaries and short films32:53 Rise of lyric videos41:42Does YouTube have a music video formula?44:09Measuring ROI of music videos in 2023Listen: Apple Podcasts | Spotify | SoundCloud | Stitcher | Overcast | Amazon | Google Podcasts | Pocket Casts | RSSHost: Dan Runcie, @RuncieDan, trapital.coGuests: Tati Cirisano, @tatianacirisanoThis episode is sponsored by DICE. Learn more about why artists, venues, and promoters love to partner with DICE for their ticketing needs. Visit dice.fmEnjoy this podcast? Rate and review the podcast here! ratethispodcast.com/trapitalTrapital is home for the business of music, media and culture. Learn more by reading Trapital's free memo.TRANSCRIPT[00:00:00] Tati Cirisano: There's an argument to be made that MTV like almost invented the music video or almost like made music videos a thing because having that audience there and having that like cultural impact is what led to bigger budgets for music videos so I almost feel like MTV gets credit for like kind of inventing the music video. [00:00:19] Dan Runcie Intro: Hey, welcome to the Trapital Podcast. I'm your host and the founder of Trapital, Dan Runcie. This podcast is your place to gain insights from executives in music, media, entertainment, and more who are taking hip hop culture to the next level.[00:00:47] Dan Runcie Guest Intro: This episode is all about music videos and what their value prop is in the industry today. Back in the MTV era, the role of a music video was clear. This was your four minute opportunity to sell the hell out of your artist and for your label to promote its artist. Yet fans bought into the lifestyle, the identity, the persona of this person, and get them to go to Sam Goody, go to Tower Records and buy the albums.It was a marketing channel and it was a marketing channel that the record labels were continuing to put money into, and as the effectiveness continued to grow, they put more and more. Into that and that budget exploded. By the time we got to the mid to late 90s, we saw music video budgets hitting millions of dollars, and artists were doing out of this world things in these videos.But we slowly started to see those budgets slash. Went at the introduction of Napster and the CD era started to decline and the money was no longer flowing the way that it once was. But we started to see music videos take a new turn in the YouTube era. And now in the TikTok era, what is the ROI of a music video?What role do they serve in today's industry? And to break it down, we're enjoying by Tati Cirisano, an analyst at MIDia Research. He's been on the podcast a bunch of times, and this topic was right up her alley. So we talked a bit about that and more. Hope you enjoy this episode. Here's our breakdown on the role of music videos in today's industry.[00:02:16] Dan Runcie: All right. Today we are going to take a trip down memory lane to the wonderful World of Music videos, how this art form has evolved over the years. And I'm joined by Tati Cirisano from MIDiA Research, Tati welcome. [00:02:28] Tati Cirisano: Thank you. Good to beback once again. [00:02:31] Dan Runcie: Yeah, definitely. Can I start with a story? You mind if I start with a story with this one?  So, a couple weeks ago I was catching up with, CEO from one of the major record labels. This is someone that if you're probably listening to this household, if you're probably listening to this podcast, you probably know, and they run a label that is also a household name, and they were telling me about a conversation they had with an artist who is also a household name and how this artist wanted to have a million dollar plus seven plus figure, multi-million dollar music video budget because they wanted to make this big splash with what they were doing. And the CEO was like, no, I'm not giving you that. Like, what do you think this is? And for context, this is a artist who hasn't had a big hit since George Bush's first term. Let me say that roughly, just to give some context here. So,So it's been some time, but I also was a bit surprised because this is someone who seemed like they were up with the times in tech, and I remember asking the label exec, I was like, what's the deal? I thought this artist was with this. You see the movies they're making here, there, and this, that, and the third.And he was like, Hey. You would be surprised sometimes the egos get the best of these people and this is what they want. And that was a big inspiration for this conversation because I know you and I have talked about things like Spotify versus YouTube. YouTube, of course, having such a big focus in music videos and it's role.But that's what made me think it would be a great time to take a trip down memory lane and just revisit music videos themselves and. Going back to 1981, I feel like we could start music videos well before that. That obviously was there, but I think that was the origin place for a lot of what became known as the Modern Music Video and MTV itself.What's your take on how impactful MTV was? Because there was definitely a big shift of any music videos we saw before and any music videos we saw after.[00:04:36] Tati Cirisano: Yeah, I mean, you're right that like we could start this even further. Back in history, there were artists like the Beatles were making music films in like the 60s. David Bowie did the same but there wasn't really a place to showcase them the way that MTV, like, the one that MTV created. So I feel like it's not just that really iconic, amazing music videos, like those of, like Michael Jackson and, others made MTV a thing.I feel like there's an argument to be made that MTV like almost invented the music video or almost like made music videos a thing because having that audience there and having that like cultural impact is what led to bigger budgets for music videos and labels kind of focusing on this as an art form and a promotional piece.And that also led to more interesting creative videos. So I almost feel like MTV gets credit for like kind of inventing the video, the music video. [00:05:30] Dan Runcie: And inventing the video as a distinct art form that can live on its own in distinction from the music itself, because you mentioned The Beatles, you mentioned some of those other artists from that time. Music videos almost felt more like a utility. They were a commodity. Let's put the camera up while you're recording the tune, and maybe we'll add in some things.Maybe they'll add in some B-roll. And that's what it very much existed as for years. But then MTV takes it and makes it this unique thing. And we saw from the early days, whether it was Duran Duran, David Bowie, Michael Jackson, Madonna, they were some of the early people that really made it their own thing.And you saw more of those movies and that's where MTV being able to capture the eyeballs there, the growth of cable as well, and them becoming one of the more popular channels there. You see this platform having this type of impact, you invest more dollars into it, and this becomes a much stronger marketing channel, which then commanded and justified them putting more and more money over time into these videos.[00:06:35] Tati Cirisano: Yeah, and speaking of Madonna, I think it also made music a lot more visual where music videos kind of opened this pathway for artists to become not just music icons, but kind of like style and fashion and cultural icons. there's so many videos that. Are just kind of like etched into everyone's brains and so many iconic outfits like people still dress up as, Britney Spears and the Baby One More Time Video and like all these other iconic ones. I think it, started making music more of a visual thing. And in turn, that also helped drive fandom around artists. Cuz if there's one thing I've learned in all the studying of, fandom that I've done and how it develops, it's pretty much always about context.It's always maybe listening to a song makes you a fan or doesn't make you a fan. It makes you a listener of the artist. But it's only once you know more about, who they are and like what their style is and what their aesthetic is and all these other things that you become a true fan. I think a lot of fandom was formed by sitting around the TV with friends and like watching a video for the first time on MTV.It was just a more captivating way to get to know an artist and have that context around them. [00:07:47] Dan Runcie: It's a big point, and that's something I definitely related with too. Growing up in that era, you were able to see and interact with those artists. If I had just heard these artists on the radio, it would've been a very different relationship. But I know that for a lot of people, that's how they gravitated to music.That's how they captured this, and that wasn't the way that it, I grew up for me, whether it was watching them on MTV, watching them on BET, That was the experience, and especially as things started to take off in the CD era, we saw more artists having success with it. We also started to see more pushback as well.I think it was around the early 90s, even the late eighties, this was around the time MTV was really kicking into gear. And the sales and numbers, everything was just up and to the right from a growth perspective. But we started to hear more critiques, some of the more traditionalists in the music industry started to say things like, these music videos are turning artists into one trick ponies.It's no longer about the music anymore. It's about making, Music video. And that's clearly resonating with some of the critiques. We now hear about TikTok as well. But it makes me think about the patterns that music often follows and when there is a new art form that does allow some type of growth, there's critiques, but those critiques also do stem from bit of this.If you can't beat 'em, join 'em. And we've seen this time and time again where a lot of those artists that had. Had critiques about MTV, whether it was Mariah Carey in the very early days, or even groups like REM, they would go on to make some of the most iconic music videos from the 90s as well.And I think we've seen the same with whether it's streaming or TikTok music videos was one of the things that I remember as having a bit of that cyclical pattern.[00:09:32] Tati Cirisano: Yeah, and there's so many trends in music videos that I feel like now we're play, we're seeing play out on TikTok or have already seen like there was sort of the dance, video craze of like, single ladies and crank that and PSY with Gangnam style.There were all these music videos that were about getting everyone to do a dance. And that was the way, that was like the promotional thing of if you got people to do that, then they would do it at the club when the song came on, they would do it in public. It would sort of become this bigger moment. And then that was kind of the first phase of TikTok when it started to rise in the 2020 when in early 2020 was like all dance videos.and even. I remember there were some videos that people, I know we haven't gotten to YouTube yet, but when YouTube came into the equation, people were uploading their own versions of videos and now that's like a pretty common thing. But yeah, it's interesting how all this stuff is cyclical and I think like video to the stuff about, the criticisms and like being one trick ponies and that kind of thing.I think that video has kind of, with music, always been about creating a cultural moment, aside from it just being another art form that I think artists delight in taking part in. Cause it's just another way to be creative. But I think it's, it's, about creating a cultural moment and creating a cultural moment in this day and age has morphed into this concept of virality, but it's always been about the same thing.Like viral in the 90s was, people wanting to be Britney Spears in that music video I was just talking about, and it kind of like being, this thing everyone was talking about for months. The same thing is happening now on TikTok. It's just happening faster. so yeah, I think that a lot of this stuff is cyclical and those criticisms, the point is that it's a promotional tool, so of course it's gonna lead to kind of like flash in the pan moments.So, Yeah, I have complicated feelings about those criticisms, I guess.[00:11:28] Dan Runcie: Yeah, I do too. I understand and I think that what we saw in the next decade, especially with some of those artists that came around and ended up leaning in, said a lot about where it is. And not every artist needed to do the MTV thing. Not every artist needed to lean into it all the way. Granted, I do think that most artists had music videos to an extent, but there was clearly a wave of where things were going.And right around the mid to late 90s, We saw the peak, at least from a budget perspective, of how much money was being put into music videos. And when you're talking about creating moments and in the pre-internet era, there wasn't necessarily as much virality, but the thing that got people locked in was how visually stunning or something that you've seen that's never been seen before.It's almost this bigger was better era. And then we get to points where in the mid 90s, Both Madonna and Michael and Janet Jackson are having music videos that aren't just one or 2 million. That screen music video was rumored to be around five to 7 million depending on the source you look at, in 1995 dollars, and that's that black and white video.They're shape shifting and all this stuff. And we continued to see this over the next couple of years. Of course, hype Williams and everything that he did from music videos was always unique, is always futuristic and with all of the elements that he had there. But it took a lot of money to make those music videos the same way with NSYNC and all those no strings attached music videos.Those were multimillion dollar music videos too. And it brings me back to even the things that they would spend money on. I'm thinking about, Busta Rhymes and Janet Jackson, they had that once. It's gonna be a music video where you have the silver liquid that's like coming over. Both of them and Busta Rhymes took guitar lessons.Apparently that's what MTV's making the video thing had said in its, little popup that comes to the music video. But all of those things [00:13:24] Tati Cirisano: I missed those popups. [00:13:26] Dan Runcie: I know it was such a fun era, right? It was. It was such a, I guess a lot of that's been now disrupted by what we see on YouTube, which I know we'll get into in a minute, but that was such a moment.I think it spoke to, why people were willing to put in money at the time with just where things were with the era that was the marketing channel. Music videos were seen purely as an expense to be able to sell more CDs the same way that touring at the time was seen as an opportunity to try and sell more CDs.And the artists that sold the most often got the biggest budgets. And at the time, bigger was all often seen as better, especially when it came to the contemporary Pop X and that whole ecosystem of music, video culture, and everything around it made that take off the way it did.[00:14:13] Tati Cirisano: no, absolutely. I think the promotional power was worth it at the time. and like you said, you could justify spending that much on a music video if you were gonna make it back in CD sales if you were one of these superstars. So it made a lot of sense at the time. And then came master.[00:14:31] Dan Runcie: Yeah, that changed everything because and there was a fair amount of overlap there just with the way things were because so much of the industry was still focused where it was, I look at even the music video economy where there was a cyclical nature where because of the demand, The programs themselves or the channels themselves started launching programs dedicated to showcasing music videos, whether it was 106 and Park or TRL.They had different shows throughout the day, but all of them were some unique flavor of just trying to show you more music videos. And that's what was cool about it. You were able to have this whole ecosystem there, but then as you mentioned, Napster comes in, changes everything. The dollars are no longer flowing, and it.Is harder to justify spending millions of dollars on a music video if you can't confirm that that artist is gonna be able to do that. I think in a lot of ways, the peak was, we talked about them before in sync, Britney Spears, Nsync being able to sell, I think it was nearly 3 million units of an album the first week that it comes out.Like people skipping school in order to go buy, no strings attached. That just didn't happen any more to that level. I mean, we eventually saw examples like Adele and even this Taylor Swift album, but it wasn't the same way that it was then, and it shifted everything and I think it eventually Led to lower budgets.We still saw a lot of creativity. I still remember watching tons of music videos, especially in the mid to, especially in the mid two thousands. But it was definitely a different vibe cuz it was this pre and post Napster, but pre YouTube era where the budgets were still somewhat strong, but it wasn't quite what it was before.[00:16:13] Tati Cirisano: and there was this whole ecosystem before that, like, it's, kind of stunning me to remember how many different roles there were. Like music directors I feel like got a lot more shine because there were the VMAs and all these kind of things dedicated to them. But then there were the VJs of the time.and there were kind of like the. dancers and the other like characters in these videos, which kickstarted a lot of actors and actresses careers. Just being in these music videos, there was this idea of like the video vixen, which is a term I absolutely cringe to the n degree at, but like that was a role, like there was such an ecosystem around it. You're totally right and then it really so much since then. [00:16:54] Dan Runcie: When you think of the term video vixen, who's the first person that comes to mind?[00:16:58] Tati Cirisano: I think of people like Eva Mendez in the Miami video with Will Smith, I think of Scarlet Johansen. which one was she in? It was like some, [00:17:09] Dan Runcie: Justin Timberlake, what goes around comes around.[00:17:11] Tati Cirisano: Yeah, there were so many, I don't know. Alicia Silverstone I know was in a couple of music videos. Kim Kardashian was in Fallout boy, thanks for the Memories, which was a bit later and like she was already famous. But like that remembering that blows my mind. Like there were just so many of these examples. I don't know. [00:17:27] Dan Runcie: Yeah, there's a few that comes to mind. I think about someone like Vida Guerrera, like she was always in a bunch of them. Even male video vixen's too. I'm thinking [00:17:37] Tati Cirisano: Yeah. [00:17:38] Dan Runcie: Beckford and, Toni Braxton's Unbreak my heart, in that one. And then Tyrese and, what music video is that was that angel of mine with Monica.So you definitely had 'em back and forth. Even the artists themselves sometimes ended up being vixens and other ones. Terrence Howard was in a bunch of 'em. But I think that this too, it talks about just how music was a launchpad, right? You mentioned the VJs earlier. So many of these VJs started as those types of personalities, but then they went on to go do other things.I mean, Carson Daley is a media personality now doing his own thing. He got his roots in TRL. I feel like, aJ from 106 and Park still does media things suspense. Terrence Jay definitely does as well. So you see those, but you also saw it on the music video side too, where directors like Spike Jones is now doing, you know, Hollywood movies. Look at the Daniels, they directed turn down for what? the little John's music video, and then they just directed and won an Oscar for Best Picture and best Director with everything everywhere, all at once. So music continues to be a launchpad in [00:18:45] Tati Cirisano: What a pivot. Turn Down for What to Everything Everywhere All At Once.[00:18:50] Dan Runcie: Yeah, never would've guessed that one, never would've guessed that one. And I think with that, we should probably start now talking about the YouTube era because things took another turn here. You mentioned a little bit of this earlier where user-generated videos started to take off, but I think the success of YouTube started to tell people that, Hey, The things that are going viral and getting attention.It isn't just using the most amount of money possible to see outta this world stuff. As cool as it was to see Hype Williams creating action figures of Missy Elliot running around in space, we don't necessarily need to see that much out of this world to do it. It can be Soulja boy doing his type of dance and then having all this other user generated content on Crank that Batman, crank, that Spider-Man, crank that whoever, and we saw that time and time again.So I think YouTube, and this was before any of the licensing deals came. The fact that crank that blew up became the number one single in the country stuck out in a way. And I think that led to another evolution of what people were willing to spend money on and how they thought about the promotion of music videos as well.[00:19:59] Tati Cirisano: Totally like remember the okay go music video with the treadmills. Like remember how cool we all thought that was? I mean, I'll speak for myself, but like it's like funny to think about now. That was such a big deal. That they made this like really low budget video, just kind of like running around on treadmills.And I think that's the other thing that's interesting about YouTube is, so pre MTV, there was like not really any place to showcase music videos. Then there was this channel for it, but it was really limited to the major label signed artists. And then you got to YouTube where there wasn't any gatekeeping around music videos anymore.Anything could be uploaded and anything could be played. And there was just less of that gatekeeping. But then the flip side of that is it also means that it's a lot harder to stand out. And so YouTube has, kind of made any one of those videos a bit less impactful for that reason. Over time, I think, and that gets back to like the fragmentation that, you know, I love to talk about.[00:20:57] Dan Runcie: It's fascinating because I think that each time something goes viral or each time something breaks out on YouTube, You do get a lot of copycat behavior. You see a moment where things are happening. It isn't always rational, but that's kind of the beauty of it. And then you go on to something else. I was looking at things talking about the 10 year anniversary of Harlem Shake, of that whole video wave where people were doing all those crazy dances.The music then stops, and then a couple years later we saw Black Beatles and that saw reach a whole nother level because of the freeze challenge thing that people were doing. And that was a whole nother culture with it because again, we started to see less flashiness of them trying to do particular things.But once the licensing came, music videos then became revenue generating tools. On their own and it was no longer necessarily just about trying to have a song get retired on the charts, whether it was on a 106 and Park and TRL there became the subculture of how can we get this music video to hit this?Number of streams or this hit this number of views. And I know we start to see this now more where most of the services are publicly sharing how many streams and views their songs and music videos have. But I feel like we started to see this on YouTube first, and a lot of the chatter that you would once see started to live in the comments section.And you started to see these subcultures of fans that would gravitate and connect to songs in that way. And I felt like that was something that was unique.[00:22:29] Tati Cirisano: Yeah, and there were a lot music videos, over the past, like five years, over the past 10 years, like the single ladies video and like Childish Gambino with this is America. And even like more recently, like the Kendrick Lamar video with like the AI generated faces, I forget which song that [00:22:46] Dan Runcie: Oh yeah, the hard part five.[00:22:47] Tati Cirisano: Yes. But you're totally right that rather than the go, the virality of a music video. Just being about driving streams. they also, those videos also became revenue generated themselves. So going viral on YouTube, having a video that everybody was gonna be anxious to watch, was a big deal for that.And there, I feel like there were kind of less so today, but like pre TikTok in like 2016 to like 2020. It kind of feels like there was a bit of a mini revival of like, Music videos being this bigger promotional tool, like, do you remember all the promotion around the Thank you Next video for Ariana Grande?That was nuts, like, we were all waiting weeks for that video to come out and there was so much, conversation about it and so many clips and so many interviews in the press and I feel like there was kind of a moment before TikTok came around when music videos were once again, kind of this really big promotional tool and way to kind of break through the noise and generate revenue.[00:23:47] Dan Runcie: With Thank you, next. That was the one where they spoofed mean girls, right?[00:23:51] Tati Cirisano: Yeah, and like a bunch of other of those types of movies, like there was like a clueless scene in it. I feel like there [00:23:57] Dan Runcie: Oh yeah, yeah. [00:23:57] Tati Cirisano: I feel like there were a bunch, maybe I'm remembering it wrong, but I think they, they did that with like a bunch of different, like 90s and two thousands movies. And there were so many cameos. There were so many cameos. [00:24:08] Dan Runcie: Oh yeah, that's right. It did. It did. And I think a few of those music videos, you mentioned Salish Gambino as well. He's clearly someone that I think is calculated and knows what he's doing from a communication perspective, but with that video, it wasn't even necessarily about how much money was spent on this or something. It was more so here's this timely thing and there was a shock value that was linked to it, and I know that music videos have always had a bit of, have always had shock value, especially since the MTV area era think specifically about an artist like Madonna and then even Britney later on that leaned into this.But we started to see artists lean, lean into it even more from a. political standpoint, making statements and trying to say things that they wouldn't otherwise have said. And even thinking about artists like Joyner Lucas who had someone that was wearing a Make America Great again hat in their music video to then show that as some type of hypothetical conversation of what it could be like to talk to people that may think differently.I may be misremembering parts of the music video, but we started to see more of that integrate where. That then stems from how flexible this art form can be. You can have a music video like wp, which I do think was one of the more recent, you know, TikTok era music videos that created a moment. You could have them have these standalone things as well. [00:25:29] Tati Cirisano: Mm-hmm. That's exactly what I mean with how music videos give you so much more context like it's just another way for the artist to tell their story and express themselves. It's just another avenue for that, and there's so many different ways to do that. It is such a flexible art form. [00:25:44] Dan Runcie: Yeah, definitely. I have a few stats here that I think would be helpful just for some context setting. As we mentioned earlier, we talked about music video budgets in the late 90s and even the early two thousands where, top artists getting million dollars plus for their music video wasn't uncommon.But here, let me share some numbers. Cardi B had shared some self-reported public numbers of things she spent on music videos just over the years. This was from two years ago, so I'm sure she's done stuff then. But Bodak Yellow, that was the music videos that they had done. That one in Dubai, that was $15,000.Granted, she was much smaller at the time. People likely weren't charging her as much, but she did that for just $15,000 and then, Bar Cardi, that was $150,000. The money music video, which did look like a pretty elaborate and not cheap music video. That was 400,000, please Me. The one that she did with Bruno Mars, that was 900,000 and then WAP was a million dollars.But those are two artists coming together, and that was also another expensive looking music video with a bunch of cameos as well. So even WAP, something that I would consider on the highest degree. Of what, major record label might be willing to spend. Even that was just a million dollars or compared to how much more they were willing to spend a couple decades before.[00:27:02] Tati Cirisano: Yeah, yeah, I mean that, that kind of doesn't surprise me. Like I feel like the ROI for music videos has just gone down a lot and it just doesn't make sense to spend much more than that on a music video. Like you can still make a splash, it can still be, a good promotional tool. And a way to, generate more revenue, but they don't tend to last as long as they used to, and it's just really hard to get people's attention on one thing these days.I think short form is also being prioritized or that's kind of the sense that I'm getting and yeah, it doesn't totally surprise me, does it? What do you think about those numbers? [00:27:44] Dan Runcie: It doesn't surprise me either because of where so much music is consumed and how things go viral. But it is a bit interesting when I think about music videos as a visual art form and what tracks and what resonates compared to other forms of entertainment where I do feel like we've continued to see bigger and bigger com, bigger and better, at least from the money that's put into these productions for major film studios, for instance, what they're putting into superhero films, what they put into Fast and Furious films, or even what James Cameron had put into Avatar. Spending 300 million, not even on the marketing, just on the budget for these movies isn't even unheard of now. So there's clearly an attraction of doing that, even if it is one of these tent pole franchise movies, even for some of the things that have gone straight to video.But that didn't necessarily happen in the same way in music videos. It started to pull. We obviously know that the industry was hit harder than others, so it pulled back. But even as the industry continued to grow, and I think, I mean, I know now the numbers unadjusted for inflation have the highest, at least revenue on the recorded side.Bigger hasn't necessarily translated to better in that perspective. Even if you look at video games, the graphics, all the things that are stunning are the things that we continue to see. And granted in, video games, we've seen a few outliers, like when Nintendo, we blew up. Clearly that wasn't a graphics thing, but they were tapping into something that Xbox and PlayStation weren't at the time.But in music videos, the bigger, better graphics of artists doing crazy things just didn't resonate in the same way, the only music video I can think of is, Ed Sheeran, what's that music video he did? I think he's kind of floating around and stuff and moving. I think it's bad habits. But one of those, I think that's probably the most recent one, but even that one I don't think is like that expensive of a music video, but we just haven't seen better.I'm thinking back to in the 90s. Yeah, I mentioned the Hype Williams music videos or even, you know, Backstreet Boys like moving around in space and larger than life. We just haven't seen that translate in that same way in music videos. [00:29:51] Tati Cirisano: Yeah. Well the other thing that you just that just made me think of when you mentioned film is how do I put this? Like album promo cycles these days are so much less premeditated, right? It's more about putting songs out and seeing how people react, and then deciding which ones to push forward as a single, then deciding what to put music, video resources behind.So I think that the other difference with music versus something like film and TV is things are just getting decided on the fly. Like a song goes viral and then you're like, okay, now we're gonna make a video for this song, but you wouldn't decide that until you saw how the songs were performing. So I think that that's a big, big factor in it as well. But we've also seen some good, like low but lower budget music videos. Like I loved the Ice Spice Pink Panther for boys a Liar. And it was literally just them like hanging out on a fire escape. And I was like, this is perfect. So I think we've also seen like some good lower budget ones come out of this as well.But yeah, definitely doesn't feel like the same, you know, spending all this money on like these crazy graphics and like whatever it is, has as much of an impact or is, as worth it as it might be in film. [00:31:04] Dan Runcie: I feel like we've seen a few outliers here or there in music. Kanye West's music videos, especially in that, let's say 2007 to 2015, 16 range, it seemed like there was still a good amount of money that was being put into those. And even some of the extended ones that, that short form video, the short form film version of Runaway, still felt like a pretty expensive music video.And I'm pretty sure Hype Williams directed that. But I also wonder is. Is the definition of what we consider music video, and the expansion of that. Also shifting what people are putting money into and how it's categorized. And by that I'm talking about some of these documentaries that have come out and what bucket we put those in.I look at something like when Taylor Swift had recorded those pond sessions after the folklore evermore albums had come out. She essentially did an entire visual album of her at this pond or wherever. She wasn't that like Cottage and Sells and sold that to Disney, and then Disney then streams and puts that out and it's an hour or two hours or however long it is.Beyonce is recording her Coachella performance and then sells that to Netflix, and then Netflix puts that out. And you're essentially watching an alternate version of a Beyonce music video that is just over this two hour or two hour 15 minutes, however long it is. But when I think about that, I think about these visual albums and just how so many of them have spanned in, had different forms and ways they've gone about it. Is that where some of these more expensive projects are going? Is that where some of the more expensive dollars are going when looking at video as it relates to music, as opposed to just this music video bucket that we may have put it in?[00:32:53] Tati Cirisano: I think so, and I think I would also put in that category like the more. Like the short films that our music videos. And that's something that artists have been doing forever. But I mean, like, I don't know, like the Taylor Swift All Too Well video and even like, I feel like the SZA Kill Bill video was like longer than the song and like had, a lot of artists are starting to add more of a story and create more of like a short film. And I think part of that is a way to like just stand out from all the other music videos and actually grab people's attention because you are really telling a story, you're taking it to the next level. And even having parts where like the song isn't even playing, and I think you're probably right, that more of the budget that used to go to music videos, Is now going more sparingly to a few of those types of projects for the bigger artists. Whereas, l ike for what was traditionally a music video is now becoming lyric videos or sort of like these animated videos that I've seen come up that are so much cheaper to produce and often also involve AI generation, which is, an area that I feel like we haven't really touched on in all of the discourse about AI and music is like AI for music videos.And maybe that will end up lowering the cost to making these really fantastic crazy concepts that we used to see that used to cost 7 million. And now, well you can click a button. So I don't know, maybe we'll see like a reversal of what, of everything we're talking about, of like music videos kind of shrinking and instead becoming bigger. But yeah, I think you're right.[00:34:28] Dan Runcie: The point that you mentioned about music videos and just the storytelling, adding in the short film piece of it. I don't know if he was the first, but Michael Jackson Thriller is the one that comes to mind there, just with how that became this extended film. But again, not everyone was getting that much budgeter opportunity to do that in that way.Michael Jackson had built up the track record in order to make that happen, and then as you see, we continue to see that now with Taylor and others. I'm glad you mentioned the piece around lyric videos and AI, because lyric videos have long been the low-hanging fruit. Of YouTube, especially for artists.Yes, it's great to have your own music video, but sometimes people don't want that. They just wanna be able to have it there playing and Sure from a purely practical perspective, you could tell yourself. They can go listen to that and Spotify or they can just go listen to the audio version. That's what they want, but not necessarily.There are creative and unique things that you can do with music videos. It doesn't always have to be the text scrolling across the same way it would on a karaoke screen or something like that. Artists have had unique ways to go about it, and AI music videos isn't even necessarily something I necessarily thought of, but what's holding it back? You look at the same way that the images went viral of the Pope in, you know, wearing the bomber jacket or whatever it was. The same thing can happen with the music video. And when I'm thinking about this, I'm thinking again about like how we started this conversation around where some of the critiques are that people have had with music videos when they first came out. Some of the critiques, we hear now about this more user generated era of music, videos and content as well. The path and the journey. It seems that once music gets too derivative in some ways, two things happen. One, it expands and grows the pie for the overall industry, which is good because we wanna be able to see the impact in music.We wanna be able to see it grow. That's always gonna naturally attract detractors that wanna see the thing in the pure form, but nothing stopping them from seeing the thing in the pure form. But we do wanna be able to see the growth in evolution there. And AI is the next version of this where, what is the core piece that you have, whether it's the artist and the music that the rights holders have the control and ownership of, but whether it's music, video, or just other ways to do it, what are the ways that that can be unlocked? And if that can be done in a great way, that's where the potential comes.That's where you unlock all of the opportunity in the industry. And who knows, like you said, it doesn't even need to be as expensive as it was, but you're giving people the opportunity to do something unique. [00:37:06] Tati Cirisano: Yeah, and speaking of the SZA one, I don't know if this is something that she planned or if it's just something she's encouraged, but there's a whole culture on TikTok of fans making their own SZA music videos. Not copying the ones that have already been created, but making their own. And she'll repost them and comments on them and like talk about the ones that are her favorites. And that whole thing is really fascinating to me. And it even like brings me back to the lyric videos because the whole reason that the music industry started to realize, oh, we should release these music videos, was because fans were already making them and it was just revenue that the industry wasn't, and eyeballs that the industry wasn't capturing.So lyric videos were just a way to kind of formalize that, and I think we're seeing that in so many ways on TikTok with sped up songs that fans uploaded and then record labels formalized. So I don't really know where I'm going with this with music videos, but I feel like there's a connection there of like, How, video could potentially enter more of that. I mean, music videos could potentially enter more of that, UGC space. But the other thing I wanted to bring up before I forget, is that I did grab some stats from our research at MIDia about, both of those things. So just for context here. 59% of global consumers use YouTube to watch music videos weekly. And then we had another question where we asked how do you engage with music artists beyond listening to their music? And 35% of consumers said they watch lyric videos. and that's from our Q4 22 consumer survey and our Q1 23 respectively. So, both arepretty high. [00:38:41] Dan Runcie: Yeah, I would say so. I wonder for some artists, the numbers that they've had for the music videos and lyric videos are probably closer than they think, right? And sometimes a lot of it just depends on what you're in the mood for. Sometimes, there's just so many more opportunities to have a passive thing in the background, and sometimes I've done it myself without even thinking, I think what is the user experience that then causes me to go to a lyric video, even when I know the music video is there. And most of the time it's when I wanna have the thing in the background. Maybe I'll go to it, but I don't necessarily wanna stare at the screen for the next few minutes and it makes perfect sense and there's so many more use cases for that.So I wouldn't be surprised if for certain artists, they both serve a purpose, but they might actually be making more from the respective lyric song. And I think when you just think about it overall, the Lyric song does enable you to have your entire album up on the streaming services guy, I guess you could technically have a few versions where I've seen some artists have the music video, they have the lyric video, and then they just have the still with the cover art of the album there.So you have three different options and that could all be, revenue that goes back to the artist and the rights solar.[00:39:53] Tati Cirisano: Mm-hmm. There's also this interesting idea of like how all these things kind of play together. Like going back to the episode that we did on, that was about YouTube and, kind of contrasting these short form video platforms and how YouTube's whole pitch is that they're able to unite long form and short form so that, you know, there isn't that gap where people watch a TikTok video about, and then they don't actually go in and learn more about the artists. So, I don't know. I think there's something interesting there with YouTube being the main place where people watch music videos. The only, like the main place, I won't say the only. And also having the short form video platform. So I think that is a really strong proposition to be able to kind of marry the two. [00:40:35] Dan Runcie: Here's a question for you similar to that I actually don't know the answer to this myself, but thinking about how like audio and music itself, we see how music has adapted over time based on the mode and the medium that it is, whether it's CDs and streaming. And then we see the impact of TikTok and everything else.And music videos we've seen similar where we knew what a an MTV era music video looked like, especially if it was a music video that's trying to be on TRL. There's almost a certain formula that you saw to it. And we also see now what a TikTok video can look like where you see the types of dances and you see the way that the music video is made almost in a way to make it easily be replicated, whether it's a Drake, Lizzo, Doja Cat, Cardi B, plenty people have done this.Do you think this exists as well with YouTube? Was there a certain type of music video that stands out to you, is Yes. This is a YouTube music video. This is a music video that personifies the YouTube era of music videos.[00:41:38] Tati Cirisano: I love that question. that's a really good question.[00:41:42] Dan Runcie: As I'm thinking about it, there's one person that did come to mind. NBA Young Boy is a person that I do think speaks to the YouTube era of music videos because he approaches this the same way that. Someone like Mr. Beast approaches videos. There is a formula there, he has his hook, he has the things.There is a bit of the storytelling dynamic of what he is trying to do, or the challenge that they're trying to overcome, and then they do the thing. But it's definitely told in this way that has the hook and the elements that you naturally see. In YouTube and the way that the font for the name of the music video scrolls up, that is very much the formula.How quick it is for the beat to start. All those types of things, I think speak a lot to the YouTube era.[00:42:27] Tati Cirisano: Yeah, I also think, I'm thinking of artists who have sort of played into meme culture with their videos, like Drake has kind of done that. Remember how meme'd the Hotline Bling video was like. Even like the video for, what's that song you have with Justin Bieber? Pop Star was like, kind of playing into like the stereotypes about them in a way.Like I think artists like them who have sort of played into internet culture in their videos are maybe part of that YouTube era. Charli XCX, the boys video felt very YouTube, Yeah, I would say things like that. And then also videos that invited user participation, like the dance video craze, where it was kind of intended to get you to make your own version.And that was kind of like the early TikTok was being YouTube. So, yeah, that's a great question. [00:43:22] Dan Runcie: Yeah, and I think we saw some of this with Instagram as well, because I think about Drake in my Feelings. That was another one where there was clearly a Instagramable place where he's saying, please repeat this, because TikTok really wasn't blowing up the way that it was then, but he clearly made this video leading into that.And if anything, I think that the video came after we saw the viral instagram clips of, what was that guy? Shaggy that was doing the dances for that music video and then Danny Le as well. So there were a few people that had done that.[00:43:55] Tati Cirisano: Yeah, no, the correlation is so fascinating. I could do a whole nother podcast on how Drake lyrics invented Instagram captions, but we'll save that.[00:44:09] Dan Runcie: And no, we will definitely table that one. And I think as. Yeah. No. I have a few thoughts on that one, but as I think about this, I feel like a good way to, to close this one out is thinking about the ROI of these videos. And there's a number of ways to look at it, but with the way that a video is now, what do you think the best way is to measure the ROI?Because of course there's the hard dollars that the video could generate, the impact, but what's your take on that? [00:44:36] Tati Cirisano: Yeah, that's a good question. I mean, aside from the things like, aside from the things that are just like hard views and streams, I think it's also about cultural impact, which is kind of impossible to measure. it's about UGC, like how many videos was. I don't know, how many people kind of created their own version or did the dance in the music video, wherever it is.I guess that kind of depends on the video, but I think there's like some element of like creations related to the video that are part of it. and then did anyone dress up for Halloween as that music video? That's the biggest measure of cultural impact.[00:45:18] Dan Runcie: Like Lil Nas X dressing up as Ice Spice [00:45:21] Tati Cirisano: Yes. Yes. And I'm sure there were people that dressed up as Drake in the hotline bling video. the scene that that came out. So, look at Halloween costume sales, all you label executives. No, I don't know it's a really hard question to answer, but I think it's, mix of those and it's increasingly about, how fans are kind of like recreating their own versions of things. [00:45:42] Dan Runcie: Because there's a clear need to, water creates something that creates shock value, but you can't do those moments automatically cuz sometimes randomly it's gun just being gunna and then, Rihanna dresses up like him for her Halloween costume in like multiple settings and stuff, and it's like, oh, okay.I guess this is a thing. Like I don't think he knew that he was putting a fit out there, but you can't always guarantee that that's what's gonna come out, right? You have artists like Da Baby that I think have always tried to do stunty things to get cloud out there, but I don't know if, I've never necessarily seen people try to dress up like him for Halloween in that way.But that's a good one, and I think at first I was like thinking you're saying it in jest, but it's a hundred percent true. Like how are you able to capture zeitgeist? And I think that checking Instagram tags especially, or hashtags or just trending topics Twitter can tell you. Yeah. definitely. [00:46:36] Tati Cirisano: Well, many gift uses did you get of a clip from the music video?[00:46:41] Dan Runcie: Exactly. Or are people creating gifts of you in some type of way? [00:46:45] Tati Cirisano: Exactly. [00:46:46] Dan Runcie: Definitely. Well, Tati, this was fun. We have a couple of topics that I know we'll dig into eventually on this, but before we let you go, what are some things that you're digging into? What should the travel listeners stay looking out for?[00:46:59] Tati Cirisano: Yeah, that's a good question, let me think. So many things. I mean, we have a new report at MIDia that'll be out next month, for clients that's about live music consumers. We did a big survey, with bands in town asking people about their attitudes towards ticket prices and all sorts of things like that. So if you're listening and you're client of ours, look out for that. If you're not and you're interested in it, feel free to reach out. but yeah, that's the thing that I'm working on a lot right now and very excited about. [00:47:27] Dan Runcie: Nice. All right. We'll stay looking out for that. Thank you. [00:47:31] Tati Cirisano: Awesome. Thanks Dan.[00:47:32] Dan Runcie Outro: If you enjoyed this podcast, go ahead and share it with a friend. Copy the link, text it to a friend. Post it in your group chat. Post it in your Slack groups. Wherever you and your people talk, spread the word. That's how travel continues to grow and continues to reach the right people. While you're at it, if you use Apple Podcast, Go ahead.Rate the podcast, give it a high rating, and leave a review. Tell people why you like the podcast. That helps more people discover the show. Thank you in advance. Talk to you next week.

Director X is a Canadian filmmaker, commercial director, music video director and television director; having directed more than 100 music videos and is widely known as a prolific music video director in the industry. Director X joins Thanasis Antetokounmpo for Part I of II discussing; how he got his name, starting out making art, working at MuchMusic, Hype Williams' influence, his first videos, hustle as a young filmmaker, his internship, growing as an artist, growing from failures, when things started to align, breaking through directing Redman's "I'll Bee Dat" music video to directing DMX's "What's My Name" music video, getting shot, mediation and operation prefrontal cortex. Watch the full episode on YouTube here: https://youtu.be/Uy-ebyTCY1w

Belly (1998) / Bringing Out the Dead (1999) with special guest Ryland Walker Knight This week: apocalyptic visions at the fin de siècle as we hustle through NYC's underbelly with Hype Williams and cruise its haunted streets in Martin Scorsese's ambulance

The first and only feature from famed music video director Hype Williams (Missy Elliot, “The Rain (Supa Dupa Fly),” 1997; The Notorious B.I.G., “Mo Money Mo Problems,” 1997; TLC, “No Scrubs,” 1999), Belly is a ‘90s crime drama set in NYC starring Nas, DMX, Taral Hicks, Method Man, and T-Boz with cameos by Sean Paul, Method Man and others. Upon its release, the movie was widely panned and, due to its negative, violent depictions of young black men, the Magic Johnson Theater chain even refused to screen it. But 25 years later, Belly stands as a resonant distillation of its time, both stylistically and sociologically. New Models chose to screen Belly for the monthly NM x Trust Kino night in Berlin last week. And for this event Lil Internet, a video director himself (Beyoncé, “No Angel,” 2013; Diplo, “Express Yourself,” 2012; Iggy Azalea, “Mo Bounce,” 2017) put together some contextualizing thoughts on Belly, which he read IRL before the screening. He's adapted his notes for this NM Short. For more: @lilinternet https://soundcloud.com/lilinternet/dmx-prayer-monument-ambient?

Will, Ryan and Adam watched Hype Williams' Belly and discuss this flawed but interesting film. FOLLOW US ON TWITTER: twitter.com/menonfilmpod twitter.com/williamMendoza twitter.com/ryancownie twitter.com/jakepaulnft IMDb: imdb.com/title/tt0158493/

This week on the show, Will's pick is a spur-of-the-moment result of a Best Buy blu-ray run: Hype Williams' Belly (1998). We talk a bit about music videos, 90s crime dramas, Nas and DMX, and the spectacular visual/sonic experience of Belly. It's a fun listen, we hope you like it! --- Support this podcast: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/willandcorey/support

Cinematographer Mandy Walker, ASC, ACS shares how she got the lensing right for the 50s, 60s, and 70s scenes in the motion picture, Elvis directed by Baz Luhrmann, tells us about the tricky dance she does between accurately depicting period lighting while still making it look cinematic, and she gives us insight on ways to improve the lack of diversity in the industry. Some of Mandy's credits include Elvis, Mulan, Hidden Figures, and Australia. Vance & Nigel discuss which of this year's Best Picture Oscar nominees was their favorite, why they don't love the recent trend of films getting longer and longer, and Nigel tells us who he thinks should have been nominated for Best Eyebrows in a Motion Picture. Vance shares how he helped hip hop music videos get the iconic fisheye look in the 90s with director Hype Williams.You can find Mandy on Instagram @mandywalkerdp Follow @twostopsoverpodcast on Instagram, TikTok, and FacebookHost: Vance Burberry ACS, Nigel DickProducers: Vance Burberry, Nigel Dick, Lindha NarvaezExecutive Producer: Lindha NarvaezAssociate Producer: Tyler Taylor Intern: Jorja Moes

We celebrate Black History Month by looking back at the week of November 14th, 1998. We discuss, Steal This Album, from The Coup and the film, Belly, from director Hype Williams. Steal This Album Belly

Orkan Çe gehört zu den bekanntesten, renommiertesten und respektiertesten Videografen der Deutschrap Szene. Gemeinsam mit Animus spricht er über seine Anfänge, Inspirationsquellen uvm.Bestelle jetzt deine Lebensmittel auf korodrogerie.de und spare dauerhaft 5% auf das gesamte Sortiment mit den Code „ANIMUS“ !Folgt dem Podcast um keine Episode zu verpassen! Kooperationen/Anfragen: deranimuspodcast@gmail.comAnimus auf SocialMedia:Instagramhttps://www.instagram.com/animusTikTokhttps://www.tiktok.com/@animus_offiziell Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Everybody's got something to say about Cash Money Records and the brothers who co-founded the label —Bryan “Birdman” Williams and Ronald “Slim” Williams. To paint the full Cash Money full picture, good and bad, I brought on Zack O'Malley Greenberg who has interviewed the brothers at-length while working at Forbes.Cash Money has one of the deepest catalogs in the game with several classics. And unlike some other upstart hip-hop labels, Birdman and Slim maintained control as they rose up. Their 1998 distribution deal with Universal is hip-hop's Louisiana Purchase.But we can't ignore Cash Money's lows either. There is a long, long list of artists who claim they were not compensated fairly by Birdman and Slim.Zack and I go through 30 years of Cash Money as a business, its competitive advantage, and what comes next now that Drake and Wayne are gone from the label. [1:44] Is Cash Money the greatest hip-hop record label of all time?[7:34] What people sleep on about Cash Money[11:01] Cash Money's history of not paying artists [16:52] Did Cash Money succeed because of Birdman and Slim or despite them? [19:29] Biggest signing? [20:29] The 1998 Universal-Cash Money deal [25:31] Lil' Wayne's mixtape run[29:03] The benefit of partnering with Republic Records[31:49] Bidding wars for Lil Wayne, Drake, and Nicki Minaj[33:21] Connection with New Jack City [40:56] Cash Money catalog valuation ?[43:00] Lil Wayne's beef with Birdman [45:48] Can Cash Money strike platinum again? [50:44] Birdman's love for music [56:08] Hopes for a Cash Money reunion tour and biopic [58:24] Who “won” the most in Cash Money's history?Listen: Apple Podcasts | Spotify | SoundCloud | Stitcher | Overcast | Amazon | Google Podcasts | Pocket Casts | RSSHost: Dan Runcie, @RuncieDan, trapital.coGuests: Zack O'Malley Greenburg, @zogblogEnjoy this podcast? Rate and review the podcast here! ratethispodcast.com/trapitalTrapital is home for the business of music, media and culture. Learn more by reading Trapital's free memo.Transcription[00:00:00] Zack: You know, some of the subsequent deals that they worked out with Universal, you know, maybe some of the deals where they were able to get universal to, to tackle some of the back office stuff. I mean, it's very unsexy, but you know, that's clearly an area where they needed to improve. So, let's say,to give some cash in terms of like higher distribution fee in order to have Universal, you know, cover some of this stuff. It's kinda like a boring, dark horse candidate, but you know, I mean, you could say that, that's probably useful in terms of buttoning things up.[00:00:37] Dan Intro: Hey, welcome to the Trapital Podcast. I'm your host and the founder of Trapital, Dan Runcie. This podcast is your place to gain insights from the executives in music, media, entertainment, and more who are taking hip hop culture to the next level.[00:00:57] Dan: All right. Today's episode is all about the one, the only cash money records. I got the one and only Zack Greenberg here who has reported on this company many times before we ran to this company and the business moves they did in our Top 10 Revolutionary list last year. So Zack, welcome back. I'm excited for this one.[00:01:18] Zack: Always good to be here with you, Dan. [00:01:19] Dan: Yeah. So for the folks listening, we are gonna do this in a few ways. We got a bunch of categories here that we're gonna run through, just evaluating Cash Money as a business, some of the highs, some of the lows, and just where they stand overall. But I think it'll be great to kick it off with the question that we often hear from folks is Cash Money, the greatest hip hop record label of all time? What's your point? What's your take?[00:01:44] Zack: How, man, you know, I mean, I think it's sort of like, any of these greatest ever are you talking about, overall body of work or sort of like, you know, The label at its peak. But you know, I think you gotta take it in an overall body of work, you know, type of thing. You know, it's hard to top Def Jam, I think, you know, if you were gonna go with an overall body of work, hip hop, legacy. But, you know, I don't know other than that, I mean, it's hard to say that there's anybody who you'd put above cash money, I'd say. Especially something that is, you know, really artist founded in that same way. I mean, you could talk about Bad Boy, you could talk about Rockefeller. But I think that, you know, Cash Money has staying power. You know, through Drake and Nikki and Lil Wayne and so forth, you know, in a way that, you know, I would argue that a lot of these other labels haven't, and, you know, who else can say that they've had Drake for that long? And I guess he's not there anymore. But man, that was pretty recent development and it's been a pretty great run. So, you know, to go all the way from the early nineties, you know, through basically now being relevant, stacking up all that catalog, you know, it's certainly, if not number one, it's, you know, gotta be top three, if not top two.[00:03:00] Dan: Yeah. So my answer is Def Jam as well, and we'll get to Def Jam in a minute. But, the case for Cash Money is this, and I know a few people have said it. Irv Gotti recently said it. Russell Simmons himself said that Cash Money was the greatest hip hop company that has come through. But the case for cash money, you mentioned it earlier, the fact that they did it while owning the core asset and the music and still doing that moving forward says a lot. Not something that can be said about Def Jam, many of the others that would be even in the conversation. I think even with a newer label at Quality Control, they've still done it while owning it. Well, at least up to this point from some rumors that are happening. But I think that's one case for Def Jam. But then I think of the continued run of success from everything that happened in the nineties from I guess we could start with like juvenile drop in HA in 98 and then pretty much everything from Drake's last Cash Money album, which I believe was Scorpion. So if you're looking just at like that run from everything there, that is such a strong hit rate. And I think that's the thing too that I would give them over Def Jam is the hit rate of who were the artists we signed and what was their likelihood of success and they were just able to do it. Even with the imprints, I mean, I think major record labels. So wrong with so many imprints. I just never worked out and for them to have, whether it's Young Money or even the smaller moments with the best music or with Rich Gain, there was always something there. And even though there was some conflict, and we'll get to that, I think that's the Cash Money case. The Def Jam case though, I think this is where I think of course Def Jam did end up becoming a major record label, so it's a little bit nuanced there, but I do think you have that eighties run Beasties LL Public Enemy. You got the nineties run with all those artists too. Especially looking at what Red Band met the man DMX. I feel like they had New York on Locke and then two thousands, the Rockefeller partner. Murder Inc. The video games, I mean, it's, I know the last decade hasn't been there, but it would be tough to not put Def Jam up top, but I understand if some people would consider Def Jam a major as opposed to, you know, an independent. So, I get the nuance there. [00:05:10] Zack: right, right. And, and being, you know, fully owned by a major as opposed to Cash Money, which really has distribution agreement. You know, and you could look at, you know, I guess Def Jam was sold in chunks, but the total amount that sold for, you'd have to adjust for inflation and stuff. But I wonder how that would stack up against the current value of cash money today, which, you know, it's incredibly driven by the copyrights that they still control and, you know, definitely hundreds of millions of dollars. You know, if you look at, Lil Wayne kind of quietly sold his The Young Money, Cash Money Partnership for a hundred million bucks a couple years ago, that was before the catalog boom, got really crazy and then kind of died down again. So, you know that that's valuing what Birdman and Slim Own, you know, just on the Young Money, Cash Money side of the business, you know, at nine figures. So there's, you know, there's a lot more to the company than that, although that's, you know, that's kind of the gold line. But still, you gotta think that, you know, this is still, you know, sent a million dollar business and, you know, I'd be curious to see what a proper valuation, you know, what it would look like against the total value that Def Jam got, you know, in terms of dollars over the years. But, you know, when you think about who was hottest and what record label was hottest at any particular point, Yeah, I think probably the peak was there was that year that Def Jam was, you know, getting sold or the second half of it was getting sold. And, Lyor basically said to Jay and D M X, like, let's have two albums this year. And, you know, because the valuation is gonna be based on revenues, not earnings. And like, the more you can sell, the more we get. And so, you know, that moment at D M X at his peak, and you know, Jay, I think, I'd say at least at his commercial, you know, record Sales Peak, you know, as an individual artist, you know, that was about as hot as, as it could ever get for, for any record label, I think. [00:07:08] Dan: That's a good point. So I guess if we were to compare Def Jams 98 and 99, like that run to Yeah. Cash Money, and I know there's a few runs you could put in there, but from an overall commercial perspective, it would have to be 0 8, 0 9 20 10, I would probably assume, because you get. Carter three, and then you get, you know, Drake's debut, Nikki's debut. I feel like it would probably be somewhere in there. [00:07:34] Zack: Yeah, that's probably pretty close. I mean, that was a lot, you know, that was a lot of concentration within a couple year period as well. You know, and I think the other thing about Cash Money, that maybe people sleep on to some extent is, you know, just like the efficiency of the label, especially in the early days. And, you know, of course we can get into some of the issues with paying producers and so forth, but, you know, they really had a system and you know, it was going and finding artists that were bubbling up, you know, first in the New Orleans area. I mean, this is in the nineties, and, you know, and then kind of just plugging them into the machine. Right. You know, put them with stable producers in-house, get Manny Fresh on there and, you know, it was not like a, you know, high expense kinda situation. Like maybe you would've seen with Def Jam or, you know, some of the New York, LA labels, it was just like, you know, you know, probably low, low cost, high output. You know, like there's a high margin business, low overhead, you know, it's lean and mean. So I think from, in that regard, Cash Money, you know, it might have been, it might have been the best business, you know, out of any record label. Right. In terms of sort of like efficiency and profitability and stuff like that.[00:08:47] Dan: That's a great point because if you look at that vibe, I think that was the vibe for the South overall. We saw that with no Limit as well, just with in-house production sheep, that production does almost everything and the music videos aren't flashy and the fact that I think they stuck with what they do and what they work with well, and eventually I think collaborations came, but that was something that they were hesitant about as well. Just thinking about juvenile dropping 400 degrees, and I'm going back to that just because that's the first album that comes after that 1998 Universal deal, which we'll talk about soon, but, that album, I'm pretty sure the entire production value for those music videos probably costs less than one of the suits that Puffy and Mace wore in the music videos. or, yeah, Jay-Z's Sunshine Music video, which I know has been talked about for years on end, but that's what the vibe was. There were no Hype Williams music videos coming through Cash Money. Right. At least at that point. I know they came later when Wayne blew up further, but that's what they did. They stuck to what they did and it worked. It worked so well. [00:09:55] Zack: Warren Buffet would love Cash Money. [00:09:59] Dan: Oh yeah. He loves little cost.[00:09:59] Zack: Cash Value. Value, cash value investor. Right. Early cash money would be the Warren Buffet play.[00:10:06] Dan: Yeah, absolutely. Definitely. And the thing is too, you talked about it earlier, just some of this things leading up to the big deal that they had, but even back in those early days, even before the Universal deal, Birdman and Slim, the co-founders of Cash Money Records had a history of legal issues with artists and not paying artists on time. And I actually have a list here, and it's probably an incomplete list, but artists that have had some type of dispute or issue with Cash Money records when it comes to payments. So I have Lil Wayne, Pharrell, Clipse, David Banner, Bangladesh, the producer, at least five or six artists before 1998, Wendy Day, who's not an artist, but one of the attorneys and people that helped make this deal happen. Behi Turk and Shal and Jazz Prince, of course himself. Tiger, Manny Fresh, and I'm sure I'm missing people from that list. [00:11:01] Zack: Yeah, absolutely. I mean, it's a long and storied list of people to have disputes with and, you know, it really is something that goes, you know, hand in hand with success.You can't ignore that history. So, you know, I think it is important to remember some of the context. You know, these guys were coming out of a completely different world. You know, and they were hustlers. They were legit hustlers in New Orleans. And, you know, in doing some reporting, you know, I verified it. I mean, you know, they were the real deal. They moved things over. They went legit. They became record moguls and Bird Man's Case became a rapper himself. And, you know, they were not people who had dealt with, you know, sets of books, right? There was not really necessarily like bookkeeping apparatus in their form of business. So, you know, I think there was an adjustment period that, you know, let's say perhaps went on for too long in terms of, you know, getting things papered up and straightened out. But, you know, I wrote a big story on them in 2019 for Forbes, where I went down to Miami and spent some time with Birdman and Slim. I talked to their lawyers a lot. I talked to Wendy Day. Spend some time in the studio with them and you know, I mean, everybody of course has, if you ask people in the Cash Money camp, they're gonna have their side of the story. If you ask whoever they're having the dispute with, you know, they're gonna have their side of the story too. And you know, obviously when there's smoke, there's fire, there's a hell of a lot of smoke when it comes to not getting paid on time. But… [00:12:29] Dan: What would you say is the Cash Money side of the story, though? The Cash Money is this it?[00:12:33] Zack: They, you know, started out as people who had not had formal training in business, doing business with a lot of other people who had not had formal training in business, who were represented by people who had not had formal training in business. And so when you go back to some of these early documents, it was not properly papered over on either side. And so there's a lot of question over, you know, who owns what, you know, I don't know that anybody who was involved in some of those early deals really, you know, had a full grasp of sort of, you know, music copyright and publishing and, and master recordings and all that. I mean, you know, it's not like an intuitive business, you know, it's like, wait, what? There's two writes to every song. They've like, there's a publishing and a recorded music. It's separate. How does that work? So I think a lot of that was, you know, kind of like if you go back the nineties and early nineties, especially when they're getting started, you know, before the Universal deal there was just really like, you know, I would imagine a lot of handshake deals, a lot of just, you know, kind of like, let's see how, how it goes sort of stuff. A lot of, you know, here we're gonna give you a bag of cash and you do you give us this beat or you give us a verse or whatever. So, you know, it makes sense to me that it might not be papered up properly. But, you know, the fact that that's continued, you know, so far into the future, you know, that's another story. So, you know, what they did say was that, you know, after, and we can talk more about this Universal deal, but after the Universal deal started and then, you know, as it continued to evolve, you know, to where Universal got an even bigger cut of, you know, distribution fee or like an even bigger distribution fee than it had signed up for in the beginning. Universal took on more and more of sort of the back office function. And so, you know, some of the more recent stuff is, you know, a little bit more papered up properly. So that's the Cash Money side. But, you know, it's funny, I mean, when I did this story and I reached out to all these folks, you know, what I got was like a no comment, which says to me that, you know, things have been settled up and they kind of don't want to get into it anymore. Right. Or maybe there was an NDA involved. But yeah, a lot, a lot of smoke. A lot of smoke in that area, for sure. [00:14:42] Dan: Yeah, the NDAs are key. I remember there was one of the people that I had mentioned earlier that I was going to have on the podcast of Trapital, the interview timing didn't work out, but that was one of the first things they said. If you have any questions for us about Birdman and his relationship with this artist or anything like that. No, we're not answering it. And I was just like, all right, noted. Like, and I feel like that's kind of RANE with a lot of this, but I think they and Birdman and Slim specifically in an odd way. It wasn't even just to them alone. I feel like there was this ethos of, you could almost put Suge Knight into this same category as well, but these people that were cut throat with business folks that they were doing major deals with, whether it was Suge Knight with the folks at Interscope or Birdman with Universal, I'm like, Hey, I'm gonna take what's mine. And rightfully so. They kept ownership over what worked for them and they did that, but they kept that same energy with a lot of the people that like worked with them on the other side too. And that's the piece of it that while it was frustrating to see there are actually some other sides of this too, because even the fact that I think we can get into it in a little bit, but just some of the artists, they were able to sign how they went about that. As frustrating as it was about them not paying artists, like there not every aspect of the business was and is predatory. So that's one thing that you know started to come up more and more as once you get past the salacious parts of the details and stuff, you're like, okay, no and no different than why you went down there to report them. Right. There is nuance and there are a number of things to dive into. For sure, for sure. So shifting here, one of the other things that I've thought about, we talked a little bit about what set Cash Money apart. We talked a bunch about the backstory and the bad rep, but the next thing up here is about Cash Money itself and whether or not you think that it succeeded cause of Birdman and Slim or it succeeded despite them. So thinking about this hypothetical world, if it even is possible, other folks that would've had this label in their hands and what things would've looked like, what's your take there? If we're really isolating them as business leaders.[00:16:52] Zack: I absolutely think it succeeded because of them. I mean, did they get in their own way some of the time? Absolutely. But I think, you know, anybody who can run a business that goes from like the early nineties in an informal economy, you know, in like the Louisiana area to being this global thing, to this day that is still, you know, very much at the forefront of an industry. I mean, you know, like they gotta be doing something right. You know, 30 plus years on the staying relevant and, you know, from like the early days Hot Boys to like the late nineties and, you know, remember Big Timers and Oh yeah. Still flying, all that, you know, heyday as we were alluding to, and sort of like the late s apparently, you know, 2010s, you know, of Cash Money, Young Money with Nikki and Drake and Wayne. Even coming through to, you know, to you to say Scorp. I mean, that's a really long run of relevance and you know, have that, I mean, yeah, like I said, they gotta be doing something [00:17:53] Dan: Right. Yeah. I think it's because of them too. I will. Because as much as there are issues, and we've talked about a lot of them here, There's so much of this that would've succeeded with folks, other folks in charge, because there are a lot of record labels from the South that tried to do what Cash Money did as well. And a lot of them came and then most of them went. And the fact that we're having this conversation and not having it about them is part of it. And a lot of those record labels had talented people as well, but things just didn't carry over. They may have taken, you know, a bigger deal to get more money upfront, but then the hypothetical is, let's say it was in the hands of someone else that wouldn't have been able to push it forward, then it becomes part of the Island Def Jam conglomerate and then just kind of gets mixed and mixed. And then it becomes one of the many labels that you hear about where it's like, oh yeah, whatever happened to this one or that one. And I think it took what could have been easily, because there would've been enough meat on the bone if we just talked about Cash Money from the early nineties up until, let's say the mid two thousands. Right. And I think that's, inflection point that we can talk about in a little bit. Even that itself was a great run itself. And then you look at the second half of the career from like the mid two thousands on, that's a whole other historic record label. They have two of those under the same house. I think it's because of them and as much as it can be frustrating to hear and see and, you know, unlikely there's some critical things. But let's jump into that now though, because I think one of the questions we have here is the biggest signing that this record label has had. What do you think is the biggest signing for Cash Money?[00:19:29] Zack: Oh man. You know, I think probably easy answer is Drake, but you know, I would actually say Lil Wayne because if you don't have Wayne, I don't think the Drake thing happens, you know, and really Lil Wayne from such a young age going all the way back to the hot boys and, and you know, coming through. All those Carter albums, you know, like he's the backbone of this whole operation, you know, musically, sonically. And I think without him you don't get everything else that comes along. What do you think?[00:19:58] Dan: Yeah, it's Wayne too. That's who I have. I know that Drake is the highest commercial artist. If you were to look at all of the numbers and I think without him, the past decade would've looked very different. But we would still be having this conversation in some form. Likely if it wasn't for the past decade of Drake, it may be a bit more truncated. But we may not be having this conversation at all if it wasn't for Wayne. So I think it has to be Wayne there. What do you think is the best business move for Cash Money?[00:20:29] Zack: You know, I'm gonna go back to that first deal that they struck with Universal. I was in the early nineties at Wendy Day, who he mentioned earlier. It was sort of like a go be who helped, you know, really get them, you know, kind of set up properly with this deal. But you know, they negotiated it and they wouldn't take anything less than something that they felt was an incredible deal. And, I remember the story that Slim told me as they went in, they sat down some mid-level executive at Universal and low-balled them to straight up buy half the company. And so he and Birdman just got up to leave. Then Doug Morris walks in and he was the head of Universal at the time. Comes in with another colleague, Mel Lo winter and Slim members, you know, Doug saying, Hey, if I were you, I wouldn't sell my company. He comes in and offers him 30 million advance just for the privilege of doing business. And, what does Universal get a 7% distribution fee, which is not a lot. So kind of almost doesn't make sense from Universal's perspective unless you think about it in terms of market share. Market share is so important when you're the biggest record label because there are all these great things that happen when you have the most market share. There are all kinds of rights that are assigned based on market share. Like anytime there's, you know, a mislabeled song that gets played or gets spun,and this happens a lot, the metadata in music is a disaster. So if, you know, there are these huge pops of sort of like unresolved money and you know, what they eventually do is they get resolved down by market sharing. So if you're Universal, you know, you get the land share of that and there's a lot of other things, a lot of other places where calculations are done based on market share. You can also brag and say that you're the biggest stuff like that. So, you know, certainly it was worth it for Universal to come in and especially, you know, you think about at the time, You know, hip hop was still at a nascent stage and particularly hip hop in the South was like, not even really on the map for Universal to be able to come in and have this connection was really great for them. But, yeah, I mean, what a great deal. 30 million bucks. You don't have to give up anything. You just give, you know, just give a distribution fee and frankly, you would want your stuff to be distributed by this, you know, enormous record label anyway, so that you could expand and get bigger and better. So I think hands down, that's it. You know, that didn't stop, that there were rumors, you know, that they were even bootlegging their own music, like out the back or wherever, so that they didn't have to pay the 7%. But I, you know, I don't know. I mean, that's that talk about, you know, efficient business. But, you know, I think you go back to that deal that kind of laid the groundwork. Cause if they had given up half of their company way back then, I mean, you see what happened, Jay-Z he up, you know, a huge chunk of Rockefeller early on and. And I think was never really that incentivized, you know, to make that his main thing anymore because, you know, he'd given up such a big chunk early on.[00:23:29] Dan: Yeah, it's one of the best deals we've seen in music and one of the best deals we've seen in hip hop over the past 30 years without question. And the fact that they were able to get everything you mentioned, plus 2 million advance for three years. They kept ownership of the Masters too. And that's the thing that, as we talked about, Birdman and Slim are still collecting on that year after year. So it's up there. It's incredible. And I know that there were other labels that tried to do the same, but just couldn't. I think part of the reason is that this goes back to them focusing odd, what works for them. They had a unique sound. Universal saw this as their entryway to the south in an authentic way because back then, you know, the south was still vying for dominance. And I know that, you know, things were happening at LaFace, but this was different. The New Orleans sound was different from what was happening in Atlanta at the moment. And this gave you an entry path into that. So it was big time. [00:24:27] Zack: Yeah, yeah, yeah. And, I think, you know, also 30 million back then, I mean, probably more like 50, 60 million when you talk about inflation. But you know, I would, to our earlier point, you know, did Cash Money succeed? You know, or despite Slim and Birdman, you know, that's situation where, you know, obviously I wasn't there and there wasn't a video of it, but, you know, when you sit down with Slim and Birdman, like you can get the sense that it would be tough to negotiate with that.You know? I mean, Slim's sitting there, he's like 10 feet tall. He doesn't really talk very much, you know, and Birdman, he can get pretty loquacious, but like, uh, he, you know, when he wants to, you know, be kind of stone based, you know, I mean, he can, he can have a great poker face. So I think, you know, if you're some executive, you're going in and you're trying to get them to sell, and they have really no incentive to sell, and they're sitting. Just like, Nope, we're good. You know? I think that that leads you to offer them some crazy deal, like the one that Universal offered and so I really would chocolate up to some very good negotiating, on their part as well. [00:25:31] Dan: Yeah. You need to be able to negotiate to pull off hip hop's Louisiana purchase. Got to at least one half. Absolutely. At least one half of it. Yeah. So, yeah. The other thing that I did have was a dark horse move and a move that doesn't get talked about as much, and as much as that move does get focused on the one dark horse that I did have is the, well, I guess too, but let me focus on this one. I would say that the mixtape strategy that they had with Lil Wayne in the mid to late two thousands, even though cash money had ownership of the music, even though this, I think that worked so well. One of the questions that we have is just how well did this company record label transition from different stages of music, whether it was from the CD era, ringtones or ringtones, to streaming it, Cash Money knocked it out of the park. With each of their albums sold, especially when they did this deal at the height of the CD era, when the music industry was struggling in the mid two thousands and they were trying to get people to buy CDs. They were just like, Hey, let's give away the music for free. And Wayne was rapping over other beats. He was in his bag more than anyone, and from dedications to Drought, all of those, just so many classics in there that I think real Hip Hop fans and folks that were following Wayne were following even more so than the next album. So all of that speaks. Lil Wayne being able to sell over a million albums in the first week when the Carter three drops in 2008, which is still a very tough time for CD sales to even happen. So that whole run and just the thought to do that. And granted, I think some of this may have been a bit more on Lil Wayne's push himself, especially because at that point he had his own young money imprint. But all of this is happening and you know, Birdman and Slim had a problem with it. They could have said no. But I think the fact that they leaned into the change that was happening, you already saw what 50 Cent did with his mixtapes in the mid two thousands. You get drama, you get the other folks in the south to be able to help make this happen. And I think it worked out well for them.[00:27:34] Zack: Yeah, absolutely. That's a really good point too. So, you know, I mean, I guess when you have a label that has been that successful, that long, Yeah, there should be a couple different options for what the best move was. Yeah, I like that as a sleeper pick. [00:27:47] Dan: Yeah. And Lollipop is the best selling ringtone of all time too. over 5 million ringtones sold, and I mean, ringtones, were selling for like three bucks each to that point. So I mean 15 million just from folks wanting to, you know, have, you know, that little jingle on there, Motorola razors or whatever the hell people were using at that point. But, what was your dark horse? Oh [00:28:10] Zack: Oh man, that's a really good question. I don't know. I mean, I guess it was just so clearly the Universal deal to me. But, you know, and Drake wouldn't really be considered a dark horse candidate, I guess you could say. As time went on, you know, some of the subsequent deals that they worked out with Universal, you know, maybe some of the deals where they were able to get Universal to tackle some of the back office stuff. I mean, it's very unsexy, but you know, that's clearly an area where they needed to improve. So, let's say,to give us some cash in terms of like higher distribution fee in order to have Universal, you know, cover some of this stuff. It's kinda like a boring, dark horse candidate. But you know, I mean, you could say that that's probably useful in terms of buttoning things up and you know, there was a lot of smoke, like we said, but you know, nothing ever, like the house never burned down. So, you know, maybe, maybe those kinds of arrangements really kind of help prevent something like that from happening.[00:29:03] Dan: And I think that back office piece also just makes me think about the broader partnership and the expertise that they were able to lean on. And a question that I actually didn't explore, but now I'm thinking more about it, is how different do we think that the Universal partnership would've been, let's say Cash Money had partnered with another label under the Universal umbrella? Because obviously part of this is very close. There was Universal Republic at the time and they've been hand in hand working with Monte and Avery Lipman ever since, and they are two of the most highly regarded executives in the game that have now being, year after year after year, the label with the number one market share. And part of that is because of Cash Money itself, but it's also because of all the other stars, even outside of that label, they have been able to bring it to, as opposed to many of the other labels in the Universal Umbrella or the umbrella of Universal Music group labels that have not had that consistency. So I also think there's a dynamic there where, let's say there's another world where cash money was under capital or cash money was under some of these other labels that have struggled to stay relevant, what that would've looked like.[00:30:10] Zack: Yeah. I mean, I think if you, if you kind of need to go back to Def Jam, you know, some of the back and forth that Def Jam has had over the years. It gives you an idea of, or even as like a top label, the kind of trials and tribulations you might go under. But you know, when you're coming in, you know, going directly to Doug Morris, you know that that gives you a lot of leeway, a lot of leverage. You got that line straight to the top. And, you know, even with somebody like Jay, it took him, it wasn't until, you know, I don't know, when he was dealing directly with Doug Morris, when Doug, this is, I think around the time of Blueprint three, and Jay had that line. I gave Doug a grip. I lost the flip for five stacks. He could have the album. They bet 10 million on a coin flip and like, you know, one way or the other. So, you know, but Birdman we're doing that like, you know, 15 years earlier, having that kind of direct line. So, you know, again, I think going straight to serve them incredibly well.[00:31:09] Dan: Definitely. Yeah. Another, another piece too. So, two other, like sonically three other dark horse candidates, I'll bring 'em, but they're all under the same thing, was Bird Man's ability to win bid wars and win huge bidding wars, I think is an underrated piece of this record label. So I'll bring up three of them. First one, go back to 2004. So this is around the time thatCarter came out and Wayne was considering to leave Def Jam, and this was around the time that Jay-Z had just became president and Jay-Z pushed hard, make that happen and couldn't leave cash money for Def Jam. That was the thought, right?[00:31:43] Zack: Yeah. Yeah. Carter boys, and there were all these, you know, kind of …[00:31:49] Dan: Yeah, they're trying to push the whole Carter board thing and yeah, Birdman was like, all right, come through. I'll give you your own imprint and you are the president of that imprint and let's continue this thing. And that obviously sets up young money and then the next 15 years after that, right. So he does that. Yeah. And I think that's huge because then that sets the stage for the bidding war for Drake, because Drake drops so far gone beginning of 2009. And this is like, you know, everyone is trying to, it's like when Yaba sweepstakes we're seeing in the NBA right now everyone wants this person and everyone is going after them. I mean, truly Greenwall Lior, everyone was trying to get 'em. And it was that connection that Drake had with Cortez, Brian and Jay Prince Ja Prince and that whole crew that I think eventually helped keep him on the cash money roster there. So that was a huge one. And I think we saw something similar with Nicki Minaj as well. A couple months later. Everyone wanted her to beat me up. Scotty the mixtapes were hot and he and Wayne, Wayne was like, no, I want her to be the, the first lady of the label. That was the whole thing in the two thousands, right? Everyone wanted to have the first lady. You saw it in the nineties, right? But like everyone wanted to declare and elevate this person and rightfully so, but like that's who we had. And then we obviously saw the beginning and the middle part of that next decade. Just go on one of the all-time runs. So Bird Band's ability to win against the biggest people in the industry for record label that his men, you know, his brother own is really impressive for sure.[00:33:21] Zack: And you know, it served Lil Wayne well in the end because Young Money became something that he was able to sell for, you know, about a hundred million dollars for his stake later on too. So, you know, keeping that ownership as opposed to just chasing the biggest advance time and time again we see in hip hop. You know, it's so important. But, you know, I was thinking the other night, it is funny, like everyone has watched New Jack City, and it had been ages, ages, ages. And if they reminded me, I mean, how much of the whole Young Money, Cash Money situation is modeled after elements of that movie. I mean, even just like, The name Cash Money or C M B Y M C M B. The shirts, like the shirts, are incredibly similar that, you know, a lot of the lines, even the Carter, you know, the albums are named. I mean, the Carter was the building, you know, where Wesley Stein's character was like running this whole operation you know, that's kind of like another interesting element to the whole, you know, to the whole narrative. Like, you know, these guys coming out of Louisiana, you know, had their eyes up on this very New York kind of, you know, almost role model, for a business. And, you know, they had been hustlers. They were kind of modeling themselves after these, you know, fictional hustlers in New York and, you know, and then in a way out hustled sort of like the New York record label establishment. So I thought that was kind of an interesting, you know, little side bit of color to the whole story. And, like a bit of irony as well, you know, when you talk about, South versus, New York kind of situation too. [00:34:59] Dan: And I think that also speaks to some of that mentality too, because here you have Birdman that was getting inspiration from a black crime movie. And I think a lot of the ways of him doing business are very much central on, okay, I wanna support and uplift the black community, do what I can here and grid. And I think, you know, part of how he was able to do that has, you know, been quite controversial just with certain artists he's had on. Yeah. But still, I think that ethos stems back from ownership in trying to keep things in-house as much as you can. And it took them a lot to even partner with other artists from other parts of the countries and stuff like that, that I think you saw with Dino Brown and how he was in that movie and how he carried versus I think someone like Jay-Z who record label Rockefeller named after one of the great white business magnets that you had in this country. Right. And so many Jay-Z bars, whether it's Black Axl, Rose Black, Kirk Cobain called me this. I feel like, you know, people always get on Kanye for some of that. Like always trying to like be okay. I'm, you know, the black version of whatever X person. But I think Jay-Z, you know, also had a lot of that too. And then I think also looking at his business mentality, a lot of his success came from his huge and lucrative partnerships with established companies in this space. So the inspiration I think also became kind of telltale sign for the type of businesses these types of folks ended up creating too. [00:36:23] Zack: Yeah. And you know, I mean, you know, brown was a really ruthless character. And you know, I think there's like the money and the success that's glamorized. But you know, it's a gritty movie. I mean it seems like he is not a likable guy in the end. You know, without giving too much of the plot, I'm sure everybody's seen it, but like, I was like, wow. Yeah. I don't know if I'd be wanting to model myself after this dude. You know, he's pretty brutal. But, you know, even on the, you know, kind of the lighter side, there's a scene where he's like giving out turkeys at Thanksgiving. Yep. And you know, the Cash Money guys always give out turkeys in New Orleans at Thanksgiving and I wonder if they got that directly from the movie. You know, cuz so many of you know, from the Carter. You know, the c n b kind of, kind of like whole, you know, ethos there. I wonder how much of that they just pulled directly from the movie, so…[00:37:16] Dan: Oh, yeah. I could definitely see that mentality too. And speaking about it, you know, full circle. I could also see Birdman having a bit of that cancel that bitch mentality too, in short situations.[00:37:28] Zack: Right, right, right, right. Exactly. So, yeah, I mean, and they won't talk about that part of it, the interviews maybe, but you kind of get the sense of like that's where the negotiation and the cash element of the Cash Money comes in. Yeah. [00:37:42] Dan: The aita literally held people over the balcony of a building to get what he wanted. Right. Yeah. Yeah. A lot of that came through to fruition. But next category up here. So missed opportunity. Is there anything that you look at that you're like, man, obviously it's an overall successful company. Is there anything you look back on about what if they did this differently or what if they did that differently?[00:38:02] Zack: I think the number one thing I wonder is what if they had sold the whole thing, you know? A year and a half ago, could they have gotten just an insane multiple? I mean, you know, you're seeing like Springsteen staying and all these guys getting hundreds of millions of dollars for their catalogs. So, you know, I get it. And there's, you know, catalogs, hip hop catalogs are valued differently from rock catalogs. And also one of the benefits of rock catalogs is they're usually, you know, written and owned by, you know, all the rights are with the band. There's not like a million different producers coming in. It's not as complicated. So like, you know, they can sell the whole thing, you know, a hundred percent of the rights and you don't have to, you know, it's not like you're just buying like, you know, I don't know, 30% of this and 50% of that and whatever. It's, it's not this complex web, let's say there may not be as many things that haven't been papered over as there were with Cash Money, but man, you know, there were some pretty insane, numbers flying around and I really wonder if, you know, if they had, been applying some of, you know, 20 or 30 x multiple. To whatever they were pulling in, you know, which is, you know, they can just sit there and make, you know, tens of millions of dollars a year, just off of this catalog. I mean, so what would the market have been if they had went and sold the whole thing at the peak of the catalog? Boom. That's what I really wonder. [00:39:21] Dan: That's a good one. So I guess some high level back of the envelope math on that. So let's say that the peak of the catalog boom was like December, 2020 maybe, and then like, you know, into the spring of 2021 and we definitely saw some 30 x multiples there and at least the last public number I saw, and I think you had this in one of your latest articles as well, but that Cash Money's Masters generated around 30 million annually, or 20 to 30 million. Was that the number?[00:39:49] Zack: Yeah, I think it was at least 30. And you know, cuz Bird, like most of hey Birdman, you know, has been making like close to 20 million a year, for a while, give or take. And you know, most of that is just, you know, the catalog. So yeah, I mean that's just his cut. And then if you figure you double that for Slim, yeah, probably, you know, it was around 30, 35, something like that, so, you know. Yeah. I mean, are they gonna get a 30 x value even at the peak? I don't think so because just hip hop wasn't getting that kind of valuation. I don't really understand that because everybody's like, oh, rock and roll music gonna stand the test of time. It's like if you ask the average 20 year old who Bruce Springsteen is, they're not gonna know. I mean, so I would argue that hip hop is actually gonna be more valuable down the line. But just the valuation, you know, that's not what people have been paying for. So even at the peak, you know, I, I don't know that I saw any valuations anywhere near 30. I think Kanye was shopping his catalog at one point and wanted a 30 x multiple, but, you know, didn't get any bites. So I think it comes down to like, yeah, what kind of multiple could they actually have gotten? [00:40:56] Dan: Yeah, because even more recently, so yeah, we're recording this now. January, 2023, there was a report that just came out about Dr. Dre selling a collection of music assets that I believe are worth different multiples. But the number that I heard from that was, They generate around 10 million per year and that he wanted 250 and he's getting just over 200 million or somewhere between that. So that's around a 20 x multiple for a deal. That sounds like it was still coming underway in 2022. So if you were to put that multiple on, let's call it 35 million for maybe what Birdman and Slim have collectively, then that is you're talking $700 million. So that's a pretty sizable number, not a billion. But maybe if there are some concerns about, maybe there's a bit more of a split of who owns what. We didn't even talk about publishing right now, but there may be a split too, especially if everything was captured. and even thinking about quality control, for instance, and I think they got around 400 million, 300, got 400 million, but this was last year. So I would assume that 500 to 750 sounds, if I heard a number there, I would be like, sounds about right. If I heard a number lower than that or higher than that, I would probably be surprised one way or the other. [00:42:15] Zack: Yeah. Yeah, I mean I think that makes sense. And it's not just one artist, you know, obviously it's a whole bunch of artists and a bunch of pieces of different artists. But I think another thing, and this is maybe one of the reasons why the hip-hop valuations are lower, is like when you have all those producers, it might not be as easy to get, you know, to get clearances for using stuff in commercials and that sort of thing. Whereas if you buy a hundred percent of the rights, there's no question. Right. And so I'm not even sure if somebody owned 1% of, of something, whatever. Like I don't think they would have some, like, veto right. About the song being played in a commercial. But, you know, when you start to have so many different parties owning bigger stakes, a particular song, it can get a little convoluted and, you know, I do wonder if that's a big part of it as well.[00:43:00] Dan: Yeah, no, that's a good point. Yeah. Cuz I think sampling also is a huge piece of that as well. The missed opportunity for me, this is a bit more of a specific one from like a timeframe, not like a specific move, but Birdman and Little Wayne not settling and squashing the beef, the issues that they had in the mid 2010s. I think we lost out on Wayne. I know Wayne was in prison during part of this, but we lost out on his momentum. We lost out on a lot there because I feel like a lot happened from the Carter four coming out in 2011 to the Carter five coming out in 2018. I believe. There was so much back and forth. There was so much drama. You know, Drake was going on his all time run at that point. Nicki was doing the same. And the fact that the signature biggest artist is literally tweeting out, I want off this label, but it's not that easy. Or sending these messages out in the middle of Wayne and Drake having their tours and him still being on albums and trying to figure out how to drop things.I think it was obviously a great decade in run, but I think it could have been even greater if they were able to solve some of that stuff and figure it out. [00:44:11] Zack: Yeah, a hundred percent, you know, that that was like, it's a long time to be going between, proper albums, you know, so, and I think that was a really interesting time in the music business. And, I mean, the music business changed completely right from, from 2011 to 2018 from being, you know, oh, this new streaming thing is gonna be important to like, you know, it is the entire business basically. So, you know, and I think that an artist like Wayne, you know, as somebody whose music translates really well to, you know, to that medium. And, you know, as we know, hip hop is a monster on streaming and, you know, tends to do really well. So I would've been really curious to see if he had been able to continue that momentum, you know, just how much bigger he could have gotten in that period of time too.[00:44:57] Dan: Yeah, definitely. The next piece we add too, I think we talked a little bit about this just in terms of how did the label handle the transitions? And I think you just mentioned it there. They were able to do a lot of it well, especially the mixed day piece and the ring toes. And then I think a lot of it laid the work for streaming and Drake is streaming, did a lot of that, the Cash Money labels. So I think that worked. But this next question is interesting though, because it's been around three years, I think it's been at least three years since you did your deep story, the Forbes cover story on Cash Money, where you went down and interviewed them. And then I know it's been four years since I had written a piece around the time that Drake had completed Scorpion and we knew that it was going to be, or at least I thought the future may be bleak. And I think the question that you pose into the piece was, can they strike platinum again? It's been three years since now. What do you think? [00:45:48] Zack: You know, I don't know. I mean, the rules for platinum, like what constitutes platinum have changed so much that, you know, all it takes is, you get, you know, one hot signing and they do really well on streaming and suddenly you have a platinum whatever. And, you know, it's like, okay, I think that, you know, Drake is gone. Wayne is gone. When I went down there, they were really big on blue face and Jack Reese, you know, I don't know what either of them are turning out to be like, I mean anywhere near Drake, Nikki, Wayne, et cetera. Jack Reese is the king of R&B though, right? That was the whole thing too. So what I'm gonna go with, no, I don't think they will begin Drake Platinum. But I would caveat that by saying it doesn't matter because they can just sit back, and collect these checks. And that's gonna happen. That'll happen even if, you know Drake and Nikki and Wayne retire. I mean, their back catalog stuff is still gonna be a gold mine. And you know, when I was down there, what they said was that they're forever in business with Drake. But they wouldn't get more specific. And so what I took that to mean was, you know, at the time, you know, he was kind of an ex extra kidding himself. But even once he's gone, they're still sitting on these, you know, their share of the copyrights that will be, you know, Drake is a streaming king and they have a big piece of that. So, yeah. Do I think they'll strike platinum again? You know, probably not, but I don't really think it matters. I don't think so, what are they gonna do? Like what are they gonna do? They're gonna sit back and collect those checks. Yeah. [00:47:26] Dan: Yeah. I came to the same spot as well. I guess platinum in the purest sense of having a chart hit. Sure. There could be a legacy hit that gets, you know, some viral thing on TikTok and then that becomes a hit. Like, I don't know, I don't know if I like slow motion singles, like juvenile when platinum, but I feel like that's the type of song I could see go viral and some TikTok thing and then bring new, that's one of my cat favorite Cash Money songs. And I feel like I could see something like that happen. But I feel like you were kind of posing it more so in the moment of looking at these runs of like late two thousand, late nineties, early two thousands, that Cash Money is like a platinum moment or mid two thousands. Wayne's mixtape ran late two thousands, early 2010 or to mid 2010s. Young Money rises to the highest of heights. I don't think we'll see that moment again. And it's crazy cuz I think there's times where maybe things could have happened. You had the rich gang moment where he looked like he was so close with Young Thug. And I feel like especially in 2014, people expected Thug to go on to that superstar level and still be very successful. But I think that the stock for Thug at that moment was a little higher than it may be actually reached. And I think some of Thug's proteges kind of reached the heights that we thought Thug would've reached at one point, just in terms of a commercial success perspective. But it just never quite happened. But again, they own this. It's not like they missed some opportunity. This is something that is literally generating tens of millions per year and that's not changing anytime soon.[00:48:54] Zack: Yeah, yeah. Absolutely. So, you know, it's funny, they have, I guess just to sort of like switch gears a tiny bit, but you know, last moment when they said when Birdman and some said they're forever in business with Drake. It wasn't in Miami, but I met with them for some follow-up questions in New York. and they have, like within Universal's building in Midtown, they have a Cash Money conference route. Like there are actually these, I mean I don't think it's diamond play, but the door handles are giant dollar signs, like the Cash Money logo. And, and it looks like they're diamonds in the dollar sign and whatever it is. But, you open up the thing and you go in and there's like all these plaques on the wall and it's just a conference room that's always there. And it's sort of like their designated conference room when they, when they cut the tat. And I remember, yeah, we sat down in that conference room and I really tried to press them on the Drake thing. And I mean, if you dig up the Forbes story, we did a video too. And there's this great kind of tense moment where I'm like really kind of pushing them about it and they're like, we're forever in this with Drake. And like, that's it. And it's clear that's all you're gonna get out of that. But, you know, so, in terms of striking platinum again, yeah, I mean, I could almost envision a scenario where Drake like does the Super Bowl and he plays some, you know, catalog hit that never went platinum. And just purely by the exposure of people hearing it be like, oh man, listen that again, it just suddenly goes platinum again. You know, or for the first time. But yeah, short of that, I know I'm gonna agree with you. I think probably not again, but that it doesn't matter anyway. [00:50:32] Dan: Yeah. So we have a couple questions left here. This one, and I think it's maybe similar to the fourth you're bringing up, but if you were in Birdman and Slim's shoes today, is there anything that you would be doing differently?[00:50:44] Zack: You know what, I think I go back to that question of like, would you sell the whole thing? Especially if the prospects are kind of dimming a bit and, you know, it's like, I don't know though. I mean, you know, it's like if you're getting up there in age, like would you sell you, you know, you got this great house that you bought, you know, you got this great penthouse apartment in New York that you bought. For like, you know, a hundred thousand dollars in, you know, 1982. And, you could probably get, you know, I don't know, 10 million bucks for it. And then you could just like rent and do whatever you want and you know, for the rest of your life. But like, you don't really need the money. Like, you're fine as it is, like you sell it. Like what would you even do with the money that you got? You really love living in that apartment. Maybe you just stay. And I think that's kind of the point. Like, just remember being in the studio with Birdman and he doesn't need to be doing this. Like, he doesn't need to be running around with Jack in Miami trying to make him the, the king of r&b or whatever. But he truly loves it. Like you, you can tell that he's passionate about it and. After the interview was over, and I wish I had this on tape, but we're just like a dozen of us sitting there in the room. And, Birdman, he goes, Zack, why do people think I'm scary? And I remember he said, he was like, really pointy moment. He's like, I'm respectful. You know, I'm not a clown. I don't turn tables over. I don't scream and yell. I'm respectful. Why are people so afraid of me? And I thought for a minute and I said, you know, as like, look man, like, to be honest, I think the base tattoos really are kind of like off putting some people who are not used to that sort of thing. And, he was like, yeah, I've been thinking of getting them removed. You know, I think it'd be better for business. So, you know, it's like there's still this element of, you know, even though he's made it and he's got everything he wants, there's still this part of him that came from a different world. That, you know, he's kind of like still stuck between two worlds, between the world that he came up in and the world that he can afford to live in. And, I think, you know, where he feels at his best is in the studio. So why would you sell that whole thing? Why would you, you know, I mean, why would you kind of give that up? And I think Slim likes it too. And you know, they have this really funny relationship and, you know, Birdman's in the studio and Slim does live the business. And that's kind of the breakdown of it. And I just remember, like after this interview, you know, after leaving the studio, I went and we were all supposed to have dinner together and I went off with Slim and we waited for like a half an hour in the parking lot for Birdman. And he just never showed up. And then we went to dinner and he just never showed up. And it's cuz he wanted to stay in.He just stayed in the studio all freaking night. Cuz that's what he really loves. So, yeah, I guess it's a long way of saying, what would I do if I were them? I mean, you know, probably like the financial advisor advice would be. Sell this big thing and then you're totally set for the rest of your life. But you know, if it's throwing off enough, more than enough money, tens of millions of dollars every year for you to live on, what's the point? You know, why not just do that and do what makes you happy?[00:53:59] Dan: I think that's a piece that often gets for guys and understands what some of this stuff is, that some people really just love the craft. It makes me think too about someone like Martin Scorsese or Steven Spielberg and these directors that are now in their seventies or eighties, they're not doing these movies to try to make more money. Well, granted, yes, I think they're bought into the financial success. They want fair terms. But this is what they enjoy doing. They've been doing it since they were kids and they wanna just find outlets to be able to do this in the best way possible. And I think the same could be said about Birdman of wanting to be in the studio and just wanting to have that energy. And if you sell that, then what do you do? I think especially for someone like him that's stuck to the thing that he does well. And you know, like he isn't out here like Jay-Z trying to be mogul in the sense of having different things. I mean, there's a mogul aspect in terms of media ownership, but not in the sense of like, yes, I own this, I do this, I do that as well. Sure. Maybe there's some smaller things that are in the, you know, new Orleans or, or the Louisiana area, but not in that same way. So I do think that speaks a lot to that. [00:55:06] Zack: Yeah. And I think they have dabbled in other stuff for sure. And you know, real estate, and I think there was some period of time where they had like some oil rigs or something like that.They had a vodka called G T V. They were trying to really build up Y M C M B as like, as a clothing line type of thing, rather than just merch. But, you know, none of that really kind of like ever went viral in the way that any of their artists did. So, you know, and maybe because it was that they just didn't have the passion for it that they have for music. Like that example of Birdman. So, you know, Jay clearly has the passion for the business. He clearly has the passion for, you know, doing the champagne thing or, you know, doing the VC thing. And you can tell cuz he's out there doing it. He's doing it cuz he loves it, and he makes money. But, I think it's hard for something to do well if you aren't truly passionate. Because consumers can kind of see through that. And also, you're not gonna go the extra mile for something if you don't truly care about it either. Definitely. [00:56:08] Dan: Definitely. And mine is a little different. And this may be more so from a selfish perspective of what I would do, but that's part of the question, right? Yeah. As someone that is such a fan of the vibe and the culture that they were able to create, I want to be able to relive that in different ways. I wish that Birdman and the team could patch things up and there could be a true Cash Money reunion tour that goes across the country. I know there's been different things here or there, but the same way that Didat did the Big Bad Boy Arena tour in 2016. I wanna be able to see that. I'd love to be able to do that. And I also wanna see a music biopic and the same style and the same budget and energy of Straight Outta Compton. I would love to see that about the Cash Money story. And to be honest, I feel like, I know there's a lot of energy around these biopics, but like I may be biased because it's the genre I like since Street Outta Compton came out, I just haven't seen one that's, you know, as good as that. And sometimes it's a bit frustrating when I see movies like Bohemian Rhapsody or Elvis, which I think they're fine, but I don't think they're as good as Straight Outta Compton and they're getting all these awards and stuff. And it makes me think that okay, I don&#

Season 3 begins shortly with NATURAL BORN KILLERS, but until then I'm unlocking a bonus episode, as a treat. See you all soon!Will Menaker is back to talk about Hype Williams gonzo masterpiece, BELLY. In this episode we talk about the troubled production, DMX's undeniable charisma, Nas' questionable acting ability, the incredible look and style of the film, why critics were wrong about it, and, of course, the soundtrack. Find Will on Twitter at @willmenakerSupport Chapo Trap House at https://www.patreon.com/chapotraphouseSupport the show on Patreon! It's the one thing that's gonna help keep the show going: www.patreon.com/soundtracker

Your HHMCs review the 1998 film Belly, starring DMX, Nas, Taral Hicks, T-Boz, and Method Man. We'll answer the question: "Will Tommy and Sincere find their higher calling - or will they remain in the underbelly of crime?" Belly on IMDb Where to Watch: Freevee/Amazon PrimeThe 20 best Hype Williams-directed videos (Billboard)The opening scene (YouTube)"Murder She Wrote" by Chaka Demus & Pliers (YouTube)Cutty Ranks (Spotify)DynoWright's new podcast - Soccer FC: Fandom & CultureFrank Vincent (IMDB)AZ (Wikipedia)Taral Hicks "Silly" (YouTube)Louie Rankin "the Original Don Dada" (IMDB)"Gummo" trailer (YouTube)Nas "It Ain't Hard to Tell (Spotify)Olu Dara "Sincere" (YouTube)CreditsHip Hop Movie Club is produced by your HHMC's: Boogie, JB and DynoWright! Theme music by Boogie. Hit us up at hiphopmovieclub@gmail.com or on TikTok, Facebook, Twitter and Instagram @hiphopmovieclub. You can also check us out at hiphopmovieclub.com. On the next episode of the Hip Hop Movie Club podcast, your HHMCs will discuss Straight Outta Compton. Subscribe today in your favorite podcast app and you won't miss it! Shout out to you listeners. Thanks for tuning in. And remember: Don't hate, formulate.

If you're a fan of ‘90s music then you need to check today's ‘90s Beauty Moment: Missy Elliott's video for The Rain, which came out in 1997, from her first album Supa Dupa Fly. Directed by the equally iconic director Hype Williams, this video is so ahead of its time and is a must-watch if you've never seen it before. In this episode I break down the hair and beauty moments, including Missy's epic finger waves, and also share some insights into the black lipgloss and liner that we see in the video, which is also very on-trend today on social media. Let me know if you've been enjoying this series over in the DMs on Twitter or Instagram @beautymepodcast or email me your thoughts at beautymepodcast@gmail.com. And don't hesitate to tag me when you're listening! Don't forget there's a full series of ‘90s beauty TikToks to go with each of these mini podcasts over at @charissekenion. If you've enjoyed this episode, feel free to give us the gift of a 5-star rating over on Spotify, or write a review on Apple Podcasts. Thank you so much for listening. BeautyMe on Twitter: https://twitter.com/beautymepodcast BeautyMe on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/beautymepodcast/ BeautyMe newsletter: https://beautymenotes.substack.com BeautyMe on TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@charissekenion BeautyMe on ShopMy: https://shopmy.us/beautyme --- Send in a voice message: https://anchor.fm/beautyme/message

In this episode, Tubby recaps his Las Vegas family vacation, while listening to the 1998 soundtrack to the movie, "Belly" by Hype Williams, starring Nas and DMX. 

This Week In Culture Episode 250: Belly. This week Ant and J. Johnson are joined by special guests @dame___313 and @motorcityoprah to review the 1998 Hype Williams classic, Belly. The gang debates the films place in history and all the performances in the movie. They also give some insight into the iconic opening scene, and more! Click and link and stream now!! --- Send in a voice message: https://anchor.fm/thisweekinculture/message Support this podcast: https://anchor.fm/thisweekinculture/support

The Young Jedi Knights continue battling bounty hunters in their search for missing Thuls while guest Ryan Davis joins us on the Highway to the Dengar Zone. Strap into your crash webbing as we turn a Hype Williams-style fisheye lens toward the highlights of July 1997, wonder why aliens would call themselves aliens, and grapple with the uncomfortable allure of hot centauriforms...

Amber and guest, Ocean, discuss legendary music video producer, Hype Williams, and more! #BlackMusicMonth. --- This episode is sponsored by · Anchor: The easiest way to make a podcast. https://anchor.fm/app

This week, Kirk and Paul wrap up the podcast's eighth season by looking at extra clips for the "Scotland," "New Romantic," "Synthesizer," "Dance VI," "Hype Williams," "Country and Western" and "James Brown" episodes.

We are back to discuss this week's Artisan film: BELLY (1998)! Logan Kenny joins us to discuss Hype Williams first and only feature film, how the world would have been better if he got to direct more and discuss what movies would work best if watched on mute at a bar. Twitter: @AlmostMajor Kevin: @kevbonesy on Twitter/Letterboxd Bryden: @BrydenDoyle on Twitter + @JDoyle on Letterboxd Charlie: @ctnash91 on Twitter/Letterboxd Our guest, Logan Kenny: @LoganKenny1 on Twitter + @arkhamoutlaw10 on Letterboxd

On the thirty-second episode of Ammonite Movie Nite, the boys are not sure who's driving the bus as they cover Jim Cummings' werewolf family drama THE WOLF OF SNOW HOLLOW and Hype Williams' classic crime drama BELLY. Also: King Kong vs Godzilla vs Godzilla vs King Kong! The boys get off track! Kev pitches like 5 spinoffs to Jared and then tuckers himself out! And so much more. Gigantic no-prize if you can spot the crucial show-saving edit that required about 25 minutes of "producing" in the middle of the record. NEXT WEEK: MISHIMA: A LIFE IN FOUR CHAPTERS & A SCANNER DARKLY COMING MAY 20: Kev's Davy Jones pick, Kubrick's BARRY LYNDON! COMING MAY 27: No show! Questions? Comments? Concerns? What did we miss? Let us know via email/voicemail @ amntpod at gmail dot com! Our theme song was composed and performed by the mighty Chris Coffey. His band, Mr.TV Man, has an awesome album called INCIDENTAL MUSIC you can stream wherever you stream music.

Grab your Hefty bags, Fishies, 'cause it's time for us to show some RESPEK to one of the greatest music videos of all time: Missy Elliott's "The Rain (Supa Dupa Fly)," which came out 25 years ago this May. That garbage bag/Michelin man look that's burned in our minds was by June Ambrose (who also did our fave Belly). This was peak Hype Williams era, so we're blessed with his trademark fisheye lens which gloriously highlights Missy's iconic makeup (which was done by Billy B) and those Alain Mikli glasses. Enjoy this fun music minisode! 

Our hosts all grew up in the music video era. Greats like Hype Williams, Director X, Benny Boom and more have given them and many others within their generation timeless visuals that made classic Hip-Hop/Rap records come alive. As we continue to expand our audience and attempt to capture our music scene within Mass as a whole, it's only right we talk to the ones creating the visuals to OUR classics. Who else better to start with than the super creative ex ball player out of Taunton, Reko aka REEKSHOTME! Reko got her start creatively as a photographer about 6 years ago a then transitioned to videos 3 years later. We caught on to her from work with some of our favorites like the VB boys and BoriRock. She also was in the building with us at the '21 BMAs as she was nominated for Music Videographer of the year for her work with Neemz and other homegrown stars. While she plays the background as a director, Reko's personality is what draws a lot of people to her and makes her network so valuable. Join Charlie MaSheen & KASH as they host REEKSHOTME and talk about her start within the scene, her being sexually liberated and unapologetically displaying it online, and other current topics like Druski & Benzino; which led into to an interesting back-and forth about Hip-Hop vs the trans community. We did not include a #RedCupsAndRatings segment as we honored the life of Blazo Santana instead. RIP King. DONT MISS OUT ON THIS ONE–FULL VISUAL DROPPING 4/20! TAP IN w/ THIS PLAYLIST THAT DISPLAYS A LOT OF HER WORK ON YOUTUBE: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=srKFt8l9vKs&list=PLEYbF6WKzJpyMXyypHXzB30rrKOrzB1oE CHECK OUT ALL OF OUR CONTENT: http://www.linktr.ee/CWTFBradio

My guest this week is North Carolina-based rapper, producer, and label head Cheeno Ghee. We spoke about Kanye West, jeen-yus, the power of a good music documentary, true crime, Belly, the legacy of Hype Williams, growing up between Atlanta, Brooklyn, and North Carolina, what it means to freestyle in 2022, the art of battle rap, founding GCE Tha Label, and the creative process behind her projects Child and To Whomever It Concerns.  Child and To Whomever It Concerns are available wherever music is sold, streamed, or stolen. Check out Cheeno Ghee's appearance on Bars on I-95 here.Follow Cheeno on Instagram and Twitter: @cheenogheeFollow me on Instagram (@cinemasai), Twitter (@CineMasai_), and Letterboxd (@CineMasai)    Support the show (https://cash.app/$CineMasai)

Will and Dan return this week to discuss Night Ranger, dance party DJs, Hype Williams, egg sandwiches, Mr. Mister, relative poop sizes, The Eyes of Tammy Faye, Pam & Tommy, Twitter drama, Something Fishy, Mexico, and head trauma. Music performed by Ryhan and produced by Vic Join our Peloton! https://www.patreon.com/JortsCenter Facebook group https://www.facebook.com/groups/342135897580300 Subreddit https://www.reddit.com/r/jortscenter This episode is sponsored by Shirley Road Records. @shirleyroadrecords shirleyroadrecords.com Follow us on Twitter at @JortsCenterPod Will is @wapplehouse Josh is @otherjrobbins Ryan is @ryhanbeard Vic is @Dokktorvikktor Dan is @motleycruedetat

On this special episode, we are joined by Anthony Bodden the writer of the famous movie 'Belly" directed by Hype Williams.  We discuss writing Belly and the hidden details of the movie.  Anthony describes the role of a screenwriter.  Anthony tells us some fun DMX stories and drops some great knowledge. We discuss the difference with modern hip hop and the origins of hip hop.

Welcome back Classmates for another fun semester! This episode Anthony Jay and Chantel are playing catch up in report card session dedicated to some of the summer's top stories for 2021. The main teachers discuss and grade the debate surrounding prominent women athletes like Naomi Osaka and Simone Biles taking a mental health break, question the impact of recycling programs around Baltimore, the anger Dame Dash has towards Hype Williams and the Crate Challenge. Who do you think deserves a gold star or detention? Comment on our social media platforms to give your opinion! Email: no.classpodcast@gmail.com IG/Facebook: No Class Podcast Tumblr: No-ClassPodcast Twitter: no_classpodcast --- This episode is sponsored by · Anchor: The easiest way to make a podcast. https://anchor.fm/app Support this podcast: https://anchor.fm/no-class/support

Welcome back for another guest episode! Chris comes back to introduce Kayleigh to Belly, a 1998 film directed by Hype Williams starring Nas, DMX, Taral Hicks, Tionne Watkins, Method Man, and so many more! Interuption: Poker Face by Lady Gaga. *Please enjoy this explicit content responsibly* --- Send in a voice message: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/mademeview/message Support this podcast: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/mademeview/support

Fred Hampton was a revolutionary Marxist-Lenist. Does Judas & The Black Messiah honor his memory and political ideology in a respectful and productive way? Of course not. In this episode I discuss and praise what Fred Hampton was really about, fighting for his local, national and Global black community. And not just Black people, but, as he says, “the international proletariat”. Let's dive into why Hampton was so amazing and posed a serious threat to American social order. Later sections of this episode discuss how Judas & The Black Messiah is, dramatically, a great film, but fails at truly celebrating Hampton -- or in other words it fails to inspire its spectators to become revolutionaries themselves. Films Mentioned: Belly (dir. Hype Williams, 1998) Black Panther (dir. Ryan Coogler, 2018) Judas & The Black Messiah (dir. Shaka King, 2021) The Butler (dir. Lee Daniels, 2013) Plays Mentioned: Once On This Island (playwright Lynn Ahrens) Podcasts & Episodes Mentioned: Low Society | #082 Twerking on Satan https://open.spotify.com/episode/3oI33sMEGwI4JMPwpIBcm0?si=32876c8567e34b97 https://soundcloud.com/low-society/082-twerking-on-satan Primary Sources: Digital Copies of Black Panther Party Newspaper https://www.marxists.org/history/usa/pubs/black-panther/index.htm Fred Hampton Intro Clip https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XJBNoLJSLS8 Fred Hampton's “It's A Class Struggle Goddammit” https://www.lfks.net/en/content/fred-hampton-its-class-struggle-goddammit-november-1969 People's Trial For Fred Hampton pulled from July 1969 issue of BLACK PANTHER: http://jfk.hood.edu/Collection/White%20Materials/Preparation/Prep%20020.pdf Other Sources: Noname declined joining Judas & The Black Messiah OST https://www.okayplayer.com/culture/noname-judas-black-messiah-soundtrack.html David McCloud Medium Article: My problem with Judas and The Black Messiah https://captpigment.medium.com/my-problem-with-my-problem-with-judas-and-the-black-messiah-b7b49318095 My Letterboxd review of Judas https://letterboxd.com/fourt_mind/film/judas-and-the-black-messiah/

This episode Brian and Nez head out east to hit the streets with Buns and Sin in the 1998 Hype Williams classic BELLY.   Rest in Power DMX   Join The Action Returns Facebook group. https://www.facebook.com/groups/841619946357776   Follow The Action Returns on IG and Twitter: Instagram: @theactionreturns Twitter: @action_returns   

We welcome our second guest in a row into the lair to discuss Belly, the 1998 Hype Williams hip hop/gangster movie fever dream. What do DMX and Nas capture with their performances here? How about Louie Rankin? What does this movie mean to us? ft. Jason Threlkeld

This is a Music Video Podcast - or should I say a Podcast about Music Video. This was the first time that I had commissioned a video for The Game but not the first time that we had worked together.  There was a lot going on during the making of this video.  Learn all about it on this episode of The Commissioner including how I learned to work with Hype Williams and how 50 Cent responded to the first edit of the video.  All this and more on Episode 9 - The Game "How We Do"Links to Content mentioned in the Podcast;The Game - How We Do Music Video:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PH34kMOjmQkMogul Podcast:https://open.spotify.com/show/4okzhZKxw5lSXcADxVxNRj?si=aWYlkQOWRxakZqXCrSNjIA G-Unit (feat. Joe) - Wanna Get To Know You:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YF7TvXu4lSYSupport the show (https://www.patreon.com/randybongo)

This episode Jake Wallach (The Gab to-Go!) stops by to dissect the music video career of our favorite petty perfectionist, Jack White. In a career that spans twenty years, three bands, and fifteen albums, Jack is one of pop's busiest video artists. From DIY Lego projects to post-apacalyptic child regimes to a Hype Williams sex/car metaphor, he's seen it all. Invite over your “sister,”and watch along (and don't screw up the guacamole). -- Follow the show: @musicvideopod Follow Ryan: @blackbeltjonz Follow Chris: @chrisjcoffin Follow Jake: @jakingphotos