Podcasts about menders

Auri makes a trade that feels right. We talk about the Menders again, and whether we think Auri has got religion. We also talk about how Auri's worsening conditions lead her to consider compromise, and how a small detail on this page is reminiscent of a trigger of Kvothe's. And we finish things off with a “well-actually”-off. @pageofthewind pageofthewind.com Join the community on Discord at https://discord.gg/tCZc6kXQcg If you like the show, tell a friend!

Bridget, Caitlin, and Hilda wrap up their discussion of "Onyx Storm," book 3 in Rebecca Yarros' The Empyrean series. While they dabble with some of the theories that have been circulating, they give their honest feedback on the book. They were entertained, but did they love it? Listen and find out.  Join our Patreon for exclusive behind-the-scenes content and let's be friends!Instagram > @Booktokmademe_podTikTok > @BooktokMadeMe

Bridget, Caitlin, and Hilda cover the first 28 chapters (roughly 46%) of "Onyx Storm," book 3 in Rebecca Yarros' The Empyrean series. They're here to give you their uncensored thoughts while butchering some names - just the way you like it. (Or at least we hope you do.) Join our Patreon for exclusive behind-the-scenes content and let's be friends!Instagram > @Booktokmademe_podTikTok > @BooktokMadeMe

   One of the most powerful statements I’ve ever read is: “The words of the reckless pierce like swords, but the tongue of the wise brings healing.” (Prov. 12:18) I have no doubt you’ve experienced both extremes in the power of words, am I right? Yesterday we began looking at the most privileged life imaginable, described in Isaiah 61. I hope you did as I suggested and yesterday 10-24-24 became a defining moment for how you view your life privilege and purpose. Today let’s continue with Isaiah’s powerful words: “The Spirit of the Sovereign LORD is on me, because the LORD has anointed me to proclaim good news to the poor. He has sent me to bind up the broken hearted…” (Is. 61:1)  (Click here to see full text, images and links)   Today’s Scripture: Is. 61:1. Choose below to read or listen.​​Pastor Doug Anderson    “Let us run with perseverance the race marked out for us, with our eyes fixed on Jesus…” (Heb. 12:1,2)Have a comment or question about today's chapter? I'm ready to hear from you, contact me here. Interested in helping "Walking with Jesus" financially? Click here

In the final episode from Paris, Emma is given privileged access to the athletes' village - and gets a tour of the Ottobock compound - the place where competitors can bring damaged disability equipment for repair.From welding a wheelchair frame that got cracked in a rugby tackle to stitching the webbing that holds an athlete securely in their chair - the repair shop staff keep the show on the road.Also in this episode - Paris-based wheelchair user and disability activist Deza Nguembock tells Emma what life's like for disabled people living in France - and whether hosting the Paralympics is likely to be a catalyst for change. And ParalympicsGB CEO David Clarke gives his verdict on the Games. Presenter Emma Tracey, assisted by Karen Golightly Paris Producer Beth Rose London Producer Daniel Gordon Mixed by Dave O'Neill Edited by Ben Mundy

Jason's on vacation so we're going back into the vault to ride the lightning and talk Metallica!   Check out Jesse on The Modern Romantic next week! Live stream on 06/10/24 at 8PM EST and later available wherever you do podcasts - Follow the link above!

Ever had a friend you couldn't trust anymore? Or a family member you just couldn't face? Yeah, we've all been there.

Makers, Menders, and Writers | We Talk to Diana Gabaldon 2Ep25 Lowell Historian Kevin Schindler sits down with the one and only Diana Gabaldon, author of the wildly popular Outlander book […] The post Makers, Menders, and Writers | We Talk to Diana Gabaldon appeared first on Lowell Observatory.

Caitlin and Hilda finalize their discussion on "Iron Flame," book 2 in Rebecca Yarros' The Empyrean series. In part 3, they finally get a chance to talk about that ENDING, and you know they're asking all the same questions you all have. 

Caitlin and Hilda continue their discussion on "Iron Flame," book 2 in Rebecca Yarros' The Emyprean series. And what was supposed to be a 2 part series, is officially going to be a 3 part series, because SO. MUCH. HAPPENS in this book, and they need the time to thoroughly discuss all the details. 

Caitlin and Hilda discuss the first part of "Iron Flame," book 2 in Rebecca Yarros' The Empyrean series that took Booktok by storm. While they still can't pronounce the names of most of the characters or locations, both hosts were pleasantly surprised to find that they liked book 2 more than Fourth Wing. Listen now to find out why!

Michael, Arielle and Bob finally gets to talk with The Menders, arguably the most beloved rock band in Gaston County over the last decade. https://www.themendersnc.com/ https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCsaSV7Ifpphh1PQ7i1lQyjQ https://www.facebook.com/themendersnc https://www.instagram.com/themendersnc https://linktr.ee/theroostergastonia --- Support this podcast: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/theroostergastonia/support

Michael and Arielle introduce Bob Gregory to our audience. Bob is an avid supporter of the local scene, manager for The Menders and the newest member of our Rooster Radio team! https://linktr.ee/theroostergastonia --- Support this podcast: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/theroostergastonia/support

Bridget, Caitlin, and Hilda are back with part 1 of their discussion on "Fourth Wing," book 1 of The Empyrean series by Rebecca Yarros. Overall, they liked the book, they did not like trying to pronounce the names, and they're all in agreement that Dain is the new Tamlin. Why are blonde men the worst?! (Statement does not apply to Chris Hemsworth.)Shout-out to TikToker @muireann|ceartguleabhar for helping us pronounce the Scottish Gaelic names! Our failure to do so is not a reflection of your effort. 

EP304 - ShopTalk Recap  ShopTalk 2023 took place at the Mandalay Bay in Las Vegas March 26 – March 29th, and seems fully back to pre-pandemic levels. Over 10,000 attendees, 600 exhibitors, and 50,000 one on one meetings, make ShopTalk the premiere digital commerce event in the US. In this episode we recap everything you may have missed if you couldn't make it to Las Vegas. We also briefly discuss e-commerce in Brazil, around Jason's recent trip to São Paulo. Key Themes At ShopTalk this year: Retail Media Networks Social Commerce and Shoppable Video Artificial Intelligence Retailers Becoming Plaforms Don't forget to like our facebook page, and if you enjoyed this episode please write us a review on itunes. Episode 304 of the Jason & Scot show was recorded on Thursday, April 6th 2023. http://jasonandscot.com Join your hosts Jason "Retailgeek" Goldberg, Chief Commerce Strategy Officer at Publicis, and Scot Wingo, CEO of GetSpiffy and Co-Founder of ChannelAdvisor as they discuss the latest news and trends in the world of e-commerce and digital shopper marketing. Transcript Jason: [0:23] Welcome to the Jason and Scot show this is episode 304 being recorded on Thursday April 6th 2023 I'm your host Jason retailgeek Goldberg and as usual I'm here with your co-host Scot Wingo. Scot: [0:39] Hey JC and welcome back Jason Scott show listeners Jason you've been burning up the frequent flyer miles I was have all your trips been. Jason: [0:48] I have I just I did a double header I was just in Las Vegas for shoptalk, and then sadly I had to cut out of shoptalk a little early and head down South America to meet with a bunch of pupusas clients I don't I'm not sure I said the portal right there pupusas clients in Brazil so I got two visits Apollo for my second time. Scot: [1:10] People say I don't know you could be in the manual or how to how to pronounce your company's name. Jason: [1:20] But it's got you sound more like relaxed and laid-back than you usually do why is that. Scot: [1:26] Yeah I am coming to you live from my spring break come down here at the North Carolina coast J tone and apologize I'm not up to my usual audio quality I know that's going to drive you crazy but it's been three hundred four episodes we can have a low Fidelity one for me. Jason: [1:42] Low Fidelity Scott is still better than high-fidelity. Scot: [1:44] No thank you I appreciate that. Jason: [1:47] Yeah and is it nice down there. Scot: [1:49] It is we're having good weather it's nice and sunny not its usual heat so it's kind of a 78 but it's nice it's got fun to walk in the beach when it's not blazing hot. Jason: [2:00] Yeah I was going to say I'll take that. Scot: [2:01] Yeah probably better than Chicago her have to say. Jason: [2:05] Yeah it has just in the last couple days warmed up we hit 70 yesterday and then it did back down to 50 today but I'm heading out on spring break this weekend as well so I'm looking forward to some warmer weather also. Scot: [2:18] Yeah you're going to a more exotic location I'm jealous. Jason: [2:22] Yeah yeah we're a family and I are going to the Caribbean so that it is purportedly very warm there so just desperately trying to get all the last stuff done here so that we can go without any guilt. Scot: [2:35] Poop including publishing a podcast I love it your dedication is admirable. Jason: [2:38] That is priority number one I can't we can't leave without all our listeners that let me hear it at shoptalk that we haven't been publishing quite as frequently as they'd like. Scot: [2:48] Yeah it's a between all the things you have going on it's been a little harder this year but we'll we're getting this one in the can before we jump into the e-commerce have you been tracking the Mandalorian. Jason: [3:00] You know I have it's another great season I feel like we're treated to like like you know Premiere movie Caliber content every week now it's amazing. Scot: [3:12] Yeah I'm really enjoying no spoilers part of our policy that I'm enjoying the storyline and it's kind of a fun adventure to see we're going to take this the filoni verse is pretty interesting and enjoyable because they call it. Jason: [3:25] Indeed did you get fooled by any April Fool's jokes. Scot: [3:30] I didn't know it was on a weekend this time so. Yeah I feel like usually at work is when I get get kind of caught up in those things but in the ones I saw a companies do were just like so outrageously silly. A lot of them when you're in a recessionary period of doing layoffs the stuff that kind of it's hard to hard to be super jovial so a lot of them were either kind of hit flat or we're just going like not not really rocket industry. Jason: [3:57] Yeah. I I made a LinkedIn post asking why it seems like all these companies are only like really Innovative one day a year with cool product releases. I thought that would be a like pretty transparent comment and I got like 20 comments back talking about why companies aren't Innovative anymore. Mike I was kind of referencing all the the fake April Fool's products I watched a product in AI based tool that puts your name on the exclusion list when you buy a product so you get to stop seeing ads for it. Scot: [4:32] I thought is that real or that was April Fool joke. Jason: [4:35] There was an April Fool's joke but the feedback I got is very clear that if someone does want to build that, um they could definitely make some money I thought it was funny because it's a feature built into every advertising platform there's nothing stopping anyone from doing it that's why I thought it was funny. But apparently like taking the email address of all the people you sell something too and uploading it to a server via an API is too hard. Scot: [5:05] Well the problem is I only you know I'm okay with you pitching the other products it's just not the one I just thought so so it seems like the way you pitched it was much broader based like my whole I would never hear from you again. Jason: [5:19] Yeah maybe I I mean I wrote it on a plane on the way home from Brazil so we've. But you will be happy to know that I use mid journey to create a logo for the new. Scot: [5:32] Uncle yeah I've been really enjoying the journey it's been a lot. Jason: [5:35] I know you're getting good at it you've uploaded some pretty cool images. Scot: [5:39] Yeah I'm the king of anything to do with penguins can have a lot of. Jason: [5:41] I know you've got some like penguins lounging on the beach. Scot: [5:45] I'm a very specific command engineer for anything to do with penguins. Jason: [5:49] Yet another I'm going to go vote for you on LinkedIn for that skill. Scot: [5:55] My long hair looks kills the let's talk about your Brazil trip let's do that first because shoptalk I wasn't able to make it this year and I want to get kind of meaty on some of that stuff because there's a lot of really good good topics that tell us about Brazil. Jason: [6:11] Yeah so short trip to Brazil for those that aren't familiar with that market it's pretty interesting it's the largest market in Latin America people talk about latam all the time but the. The Dynamics in each country are wildly different and of course they speak a completely different language in Brazil than they do in the rest of Latin America so like. [6:32] It tends to be pretty variable country to Country, the Retail Landscape in Brazil isn't super Dynamic are interesting there's some good retailers but there's nothing that would work. [6:44] Super exciting a revolutionary to anyone that's used to shopping in the US but e-commerce is a pretty interesting Battle Ground Amazon is not the incumbent there's a Marketplace you know well Mercado Libre that, really focuses on Latin America. They're by far the largest Marketplace in Latin America and I think they're still bigger than Amazon but Amazon came to Brazil late and and people are speculating that they would have no chance that there's, all these laws that are unfriendly to expats and mercado Libre had a local presence in Brazil and all this stuff, and my sense is both companies are doing really well and continuing to thrive. E-commerce is growing similar to the US like they tend to be 10 to 15% a year growth for ecommons 4% for retail and both Mercado Libre and Amazon which are by far the two biggest players in Brazil are both growing, much faster than that industry average so. I haven't been there for years ago and back now four years ago people are like Amazon's the new guy and we don't think they'll make it and I think, like in most other markets what they've learned is that if Amazon is really serious about your Market there they're definitely going to be able to win over Shoppers and they, open the ton of infrastructure and they seem to be a credible competitor but it's kind of fun to be in a market where there's two a gentleman. Competitors. Scot: [8:13] Yeah and then did you go to anywhere else in South America just presume. Jason: [8:19] Saturday just Brazil and just how Paulo which is biggest city and in Latin America like 22 million, people in the metro area the digital stuff that was fun to me in Brazil so you know I like to talk about these Chinese companies that are doing really well in the US Xi'an, and she and is doing a bunch of experiments in Brazil that they're not doing anywhere else so in most of the country Shion is a direct-to-consumer model where they have deals with a bunch of factories, and they they sell direct to Consumer the in Brazil there a marketplace with three-piece hours. [8:54] And so that's their first pilot for 3p, and I don't know if it's related to this or not but there's a long time SoftBank exact who led like a hundred million dollar investment in Chien who's based in Latin America and just took a job as like. The head of Sheehan and Latin America and so it seems like they they definitely have a vested interest in the market. So it's kind of interesting to see how well she ends doing there like they are here and then you know Tim ooh is only a three-month-old company it's a pen duo duo, company that has done really well here in the US with app downloads and they did the Super Bowl ads and very similarly they are making a huge, advertising investment in Brazil and getting a lot of traction so that was interesting all of Latin America is having an inflation problem right now and it's kind of interesting Brazil has had this horrible inflation problem for a long time and so there's almost a way in which. [9:53] Brazil is. Doing economy is doing better than a lot of other Latin America economies because they are today already felt the pain of the like truly massive inflation that like makes our inflation seems silly. So that was interesting and then the to me the most geeky coolest thing of all although controversial is during the pandemic, the Brazilian government launched a government-sponsored instant payment system so I got. A digital wallet but the distinction between instant payments and digital wallets digital wallets can hold like credit cards and traditional forms of payment instant payment is kind of like. [10:33] You know do direct withdrawal from transfers from One bank to another, um and so they launched this National digital instant payment system called pics and so if you're a merchant you can accept pics and you don't have to pay any credit card interchange fees, you get your money instantly from the consumer there's all the the you know typical anti-fraud and consumer protection stuff in it and it launched in the middle of the pandemic in 2020 and today it's, used by seventy percent of the Brazilian population so I have to be honest like there's. In one sense a little jealous because I believe there's a lot of digital experiences that get held back in the US because it's such a pain in the neck to pay for stuff. Scot: [11:18] Yeah for a while most of Latin America with Zod and always had it explained to me that it was kind of like, they like to pass cash because the inflation problem they like to keep cash for than in the bank they don't trust the banking system a lot of times so there's this pic thing replacing that that Zod is the most popular payment mechanism. Jason: [11:40] Yeah it definitely has online there still is some cod4 sure it depends on the delivery window of the goods Mercado Libre an Amazon deliver like unsurprisingly fast, but like so you earned order furniture from magazine luiza and it's going to get delivered two weeks from now like the. You want to settle up at point of delivery not at point of order because of that that currency fluctuation or but at least you did. So yeah I don't know the exact breakdown but it just. It's interesting to have this like super ubiquitous payment and part of me and I believe the last time I was in Brazil this that didn't exist yet, and there wasn't a lot of Regulation so everybody and their brother was launching a digital payment method and they were all like a bunch of them were like fraudulent and sketchy and like I went down there and met like a client that was like a chocolatier that made chocolate, and they're like and we have our own digital wallet you're just like why does this country need 400 digital wallets and so part of me imagines that this pic system was sort of. In response to the private sector running amok. Scot: [12:55] Ankle and then how was the flight there and back there in ours there in our time zone right but you but it's kind of a long flight they're in. Jason: [13:06] They're so sad Paulo is a slightly more East so for me from Chicago it's two hours ahead for you they'd be one hour ahead of you. The flight from Chicago would be uneventful it's about a 10 hour direct flight but you can't get there from Las Vegas so I had to go as Vegas. To Dulles which is the wrong direction and then and then down and I had a tight connection I was super nervous, everything went went perfectly I'm sitting in my comfortable seat on the plane for the last leg of the flight down there and I say to myself. All green lights and right then the engine conked out on our plate. Went back to the gate so at the airport for like 5 hours and yeah it ended up being a 24-hour traveled. Scot: [13:56] I hate this map can be recovered. Jason: [13:59] But lucky fresh Jason and exhausted Jason aren't all that different. Scot: [14:03] Just kind of pull the string and you just start talking. Jason: [14:07] Exactly and it is definitely true that my travel muscles have atrophied so like I don't know just not quite as routine as it used to be for me. Scot: [14:21] Yeah give me a rundown of shoptalk what was all the good good sessions there. Jason: [14:27] Yeah well so high level this was the shoptalk the definitely felt like back to normal hundred percent like so there were over 10,000 people there which I think was the attendance of 29. 19 if I'm remembering right. It felt super vibrant and busy and you know you couldn't get a Starbucks because there was a super long line for the first time that I remember you couldn't get a hotel room at the show Hotel. And so a ton of people were having to stay off site which is a little bit of a bummer. The thing that has grown a ton is you know shoptalk offers this Meetup service. You know where it's kind of like Tinder B2B Tinder right like you give a list of. Potential customers you want to meet and they give a list of vendors they want to meet and if you both swipe right like they booked a meeting so shoptalk booked 50,000 meetings, for this event and you can you can go online and get you know Google pictures of the meeting space. It's way bigger than the exhibit space so I give it was a. Pretty interesting Dynamic and people felt like because it was double opt-in that the quality of the meetings was pretty good. Scot: [15:43] Yeah and that's where this is popular in Europe for a while and then most you should have never did it but it sounds like we're moving to that where as a retailer if you agree to X number of meetings they'll pay for your Compu of flight the ticket to the show in a room is it kind of how it works. Jason: [16:01] Yeah and they still have that so yes if you agree to a number of meetings you get comp to the show, I'm not sure about if they comp your hotel room or not I don't remember but um they used to kind of aggressively sell these meetings to vendors and back then Menders were like the meetings are Hidden Mist because you get a lot of kind of. Major people that were just using the meetings as a way to fund their trip and that weren't really interested in the products. My sense is that they they stopped doing that heavy cell and they now make the meetings free if both people opt-in. You don't you can be a vendor and get as many meetings as you want with people that that agree to see you and the only people that are required to take a meaning are these retailers that get their trip. Um but they still get to pick from amongst the people that want to meet with them so, it sounds like a little more voluntary and it sounds like it's working better and the inside trade show baseball, the guy that founded this show and sold it Anil apparently started a company to write the software to manage all these meetings and he sells it as a service and apparently, that's another business that's taken off for an eel that a bunch of shows are now using this this be to be tender software. Scot: [17:20] Like I never misses an angle gotta respect that. Jason: [17:22] Yeah I do. Scot: [17:24] Always gotta hustle goner. Jason: [17:26] I do I you know normally I'm anti serial entrepreneurs but you know occasionally someone wins me over. So that was kind of the vibe felt back lots of people were super kind and came up and, told me how much they appreciate the show and how much they regret that you weren't there there are some people that feel a little abandoned that feel like, you have your new get spiffy family better than you of your old e-commerce. Scot: [18:00] They can visit with us every so often on the podcast. Jason: [18:04] Exactly, so that was kind of the vibe and then you know as per usual they had bunch of Keynotes they had a bunch of track content, they had a big vibrant trade show booth and this this meeting space. And I kind of divided all the themes of the show into four big themes and the first thing I should tell you is, the first day of the show after about three key notes I made a tweet that like, the shop Todd drinking game this year is retail media networks and generative AI that you have to drink every time each one of those things came up and it got like. Five thousand retweets so it seems like there is pretty violent, agreement on those two themes so as it turned out those were two of the big themes was retail media networks and generative Ai and then the other two, that I like to talk about our kind of the social commerce video Commerce. Progression and then this last one that we'll talk about at the end called platforms. [19:11] So the first one retail media networks it's pretty interesting like everybody is talking about this stuff, there are now like we're tracking over 40 retailers that have launched a retail media Network so there's there's a huge fragmentation problem for brands that want to or need to advertise on these things, because all 40 of them have. Different infrastructures and tools and most notably they have completely different metrics and success criteria so there's no way to I. Apples to Apples how well your investment in any of these. These networks is working but there are a ton of sessions from the brand side talking about you know if and how you should be playing on retail networks there were a ton of sessions including one I did from the retailer side talking about how you should think about, launching a retail Network and use it there are a bunch of. The kind of Legacy vendors that have been known for these retail media networks like citrus add which is owned by my parent company and then pretty oh but there were also, 37 startups that were you know launching new businesses to help either retailers, manager retail media Network or Brands advertised on a retail media Network so. [20:30] Ton of taka talking about it I did a session that was interesting at least to me that was slightly broader than just retail media networks it what I was asked to talk about all the ways retailers could monetize data. Um and I had with me Nadine AA Julie jannetty who's the VP of, marketing for Vitamin Shoppe, and so I kind of put together this framework for my session hey there's three ways retailers can make money on data they can sell their data they can rent their data and they could use their data and, for sale I talked about all these examples like Walmart illuminate or Amazon premium analytics or Kroger's data, licensing arm or even selling data to iri for use we talked about how you could use that data in like personalization engines and generative AI engines and in targeted marketing campaigns, but the rent version was all about how you could use that data to launch and improve a retail media. [21:34] And the reason I call that renting is increasingly the big Trend in the successful retail media networks is, selling ads that don't appear on your own website so either off-site digitally so, I would buy retail media Network ad from Walmart that appears on Facebook and the reason I would do that is because Walmart has better first-party data than I do since I can't use a local look-alike audience from Facebook anymore to build the exact audience I want Walmart can so if I pay them to run an ad for me they can Target that add much better than I can and so the biggest retail media networks are, getting a lot of traction with these sort of off-site AD units, and then the other big thing that everyone is doing is trying to figure out how to move more of these ad units into the store and most retailers still get more eyeballs in more more footfalls in the store and then they do on their website and so they're able to monetize the store space. That's really interesting and increasingly these retailers are offering these clean rooms where you can kind of bring your data and they bring their data and you can you can kind of rent some customer Insight by, by in an anonymous way matching your data up with the retailers to get more insight about what your customers are doing. Scot: [22:57] Yeah and this is maybe just back up for listeners this is all really out of the IDF a and a TT changes right so, so Apple till third-party tracking and then Google followed and all this first-party data is now worth its kind of gold dust because they have the best clothes look data, is that a fair characterization why this is now a thing. Jason: [23:19] It is I would say it's a it's a conflation of two things one of them is that that the first party data from the Facebook's and Google's got depreciated by by these more stringent privacy restrictions but then the second thing that happened is grocery e-commerce more than doubled and in Inconvenient Truth of grocery e-commerce is that it's wildly unprofitable so there's all of this, margin pressure on retailers specifically in grocery and so if you look at the retail media networks that are doing the best it's Amazon Walmart Kroger you know that are the three biggest grocers in the US. Scot: [24:00] And then what is if a brand wants to be on like 10 of the 40 of these how do they do that it's just they just hire an agency to manage it all are there some tools developed coming along they'll do. Jason: [24:12] So you could do it in-house every one of these networks offer some sort of tool at the moment these are all pretty rudimentary so if you compare the the, instrumentation for these things too like the instrumentation for buying an ad on Google it's like it's several Generations behind but, in most cases it requires human intervention so in most of these these networks like you're literally calling a sales guy to place an ad for you which is. [24:42] Pretty archaic right like obviously the brands that want to do this themselves want to do it in a more automated way and so that this is where Amazon's the most ahead of anyone else and you know as you can imagine the bigger. Companies have little better instrumentation than the than the you know kind of mid-tier retailers are in are certainly then any independent retailer. So the instrumentation is pretty rudimentary you can use an agency like like mine or many of our good competitors to do this for you I would say the trend while a lot of people use us right now, in the long run they want to be able to do this themselves and not pay a middleman to do it for them so they're they're all putting pressure on the retailers to offer better tools and then there are third-party tools, um that try to learn the, the different data vulgarities and metrics from each of these platforms and kind of be a universal translator and I described many of these as like the channel advisor of retail media Networks and I actually think Channel advisor may offer a product in this space now too but like if you. [25:59] Longtime friend of the show Melissa from Pat view as a tool that that, is it is getting a lot of traction in this space there's some traditional ad automation tools like kin shoe and what's now sky, um [26:17] Do all this stuff so there's a lot of competition for tools the tools are replacing a lot of inherent deficiencies in the in the media networks at the. Scot: [26:28] Yeah yeah I like this one too many problem so I wouldn't be surprised of Channel those are spoken in there and then if you did it for Amazon like most of the verdict had done you know then it's easy to add multiples. Jason: [26:41] Yeah and you know everybody started with Amazon and they're now starting to expand and so. You know there's a lot of like coaching for people at different levels of maturity about all this stuff there were a bunch of retailers that came on and give case studies about how successful they've been, because these things are all pretty small they're growing really fast so like Ulta, I gave a presentation and they talked about how their Regional media networks growing at 40% Macy's talked about how you know in this was kind of a sales pitch but like, um how you know brands that bought their Premier retail media ads units like had 25% better sell-through than, then brands that that did not so talking about the efficacy. The tracking and measurement of all these ads is super dubious right now by the way Uber did a presentation and I don't know if you've noticed this an Uber lately but there they are weaning heavily into these ads as a new, monetization Channel I feel like their way over the top like I keep. You know I'm trying to book a flight to a ride to the airport and I've got a click through I you know click around eight ads too. [27:55] To do that which is somewhat annoying. So there's a lot of positive momentum and everyone talking about this is the Panacea and this the way to make money to more nuanced interesting conversations a lot of people are like. Is this new like when you're talking about retail media networks moving in store like isn't that a hundred year old practice called Co-op advertising that like every retailers, been doing I get in many ways this feels like kind of the digitization of a long-standing practice at retail and then you get into all these interesting questions. [28:28] Where's the money coming from that's going into these ads is it a zero-sum game is it like are they taking dollars from their trade budget that used to go to a store circular and buying an ad with it or is this marketing money that used to be going to Facebook and buying an ad with it, all of those conversations came up and then for the first time because this has been the most hype thing in my world for. [28:50] I don't know two years 18 months for the first time you're starting to hear the stories that and it doesn't always work out right that like. It's a lot harder to do than it sounds like when you just see a PowerPoint presentation from a vendor that's trying to get you to buy their tool. And you know a bunch of these guys are kind of stumbling like the the amount of eyeballs you have to sell like drop off really fast after you get pissed Amazon and Walmart, um and so you know it the fragmentation problem becomes a real problem for. For targeting and selling ads and we've seen at least one one retailer Gap actually have to turn off the retail media Network and kind of, give up and it makes perfect sense that they like, wouldn't be successful because at the moment all the advertisers on these networks are what we would call endemic advertisers their people that are selling stuff through the retailer and so you know probably have some, additional interest in having an add-on that retailers properties, there are no insurance companies are car companies buying ads on any of these platforms and if you think about it what who the Gap does not have is any endemic advertisers right like they sell all their own stuff so. They just had a hard time I think selling enough adieu. Scot: [30:08] Young sir wall she loves it because it's just pure margin was so much easier to sell a margin add than a product. Jason: [30:14] I have a whole deck of CFO quotes talking about how like this is the greatest business I've ever seen in my 30 year career as a retailer, because they're like there's 75 percent gross margin businesses for a bunch of companies that are used to eight percent gross margin businesses. Scot: [30:30] Yeah yet Game Changer it doesn't have to be it could be eight percent of Revenue and it'll drive likes it. Jason: [30:35] No that's that's why I keep talking about like you know a bunch of these guys are like uber just announced that they're near a billion dollars in. Ads you know that's I don't know that could be a hundred billion dollars in gmv equivalent or 50 billion dollars in gmv equivalent for Gruber. Scot: [30:54] Yeah they're actually they were one super annoying because I feel like there's a misalignment there because, they'll say you're right is 3 minutes away and I'll show you an ad and then suddenly will be like 12 minutes away you're like wait a minute and then they yeah they almost intended to make you wait for the ride while. Jason: [31:11] You're monetizing your bad service. Scot: [31:14] Yeah yeah that one feels like that's kind of bad biopsy. Jason: [31:18] Yeah and there's a controversy with all these things like you can, you know what's the right level of this stuff to put in right like a little bit of advertising there's an argument that it's a customer amenity and helps a customer but but too much is super annoying right and in general, why you know people start to start by sprinkling a little bit on this and it's not so objectionable but once they get addicted to it you know the first organic result on Amazon is now you know often well below the fold because everything above the folds been monitoring. Scot: [31:48] Yeah. Jason: [31:50] So that was the thing on retail media networks happily my company has like 50 subject matter experts in that that no more than me so I don't end up having to talk about that as much as I used to, which I'm frankly grateful for because I don't I don't like that business that much it's Louise interesting part of our whole Space to me, but the next big Trend was the whole evolution of social commerce and I'm kind of lumping shoppable video into social commerce so there were a bunch of platforms that gave Keynotes, Bill ready is the CEO of Pinterest he gave a keynote and he had kind of an interesting metaphor he's like you know for a long time, Pinterest has been kind of like the digital equivalent of window shopping except you are only window shopping at night when all the stores were closed and you weren't allowed to buy anything, and he's like you know the big goal for Pinterest this year is to open up all those stores and let you buy the stuff that you're interested in right and he made. Yes um funny arguments you know there's there's a lot of objectionable stuff on a lot of these social media networks and negative sentiment and all this stuff and because. [33:01] Pinterest is mostly product-centric it kind of side steps a lot of those. Those controversies and so you know he talks about it is a much more brand safe platform than a lot of other social networks they launched a second product last year called shuffles which is kind of a. A gen Z version of Pinterest that's even more kind of shopping list Centric, um it has and it has more video and short form video on that vis-à-vis Tick-Tock and so they announced that the show a bunch of shoppable features for shuffles for example. Um They do have some live streaming which one of the conversations that this show is that you know mostly live streaming isn't very high volume and isn't working but what bill was saying in their case is, they're using a i to chop up the live streaming video and turn it into short form video that's not live, and that that's monetizing pretty well so so you know he gave a kind of interesting talk about. [34:10] Commerce getting social getting more Commerce E from his perspective Tik Tok was also a platinum sponsor they had a big booth, um before shoptalk they launched the most robust, checkout experience I've seen on a social platform so they they have a multi-item cart called Tick Tock shop so you can add multiple items you can add actually add multiple items from different vendors all in a single Universal car, and check out a lot of the things that I always point out are usually missing from social check out like in tick-tocks to take tax credit they've added so this is a pretty robust, shopping feature that they've launched and when they launched it. It came with a Shopify integration so the first cuss clients that were on the shop we're all like Shopify customer so you know to me the most recognizable brand was packs on had a had their products on a tick tock shoptalk, and then at shoptalk the announced the first customer that was using their Salesforce integration which is the Cosmetics company e.l.f. [35:19] Um and so so you know we're starting to see. More robust shopping features on at least the tick tock platform, WhatsApp it's owned by meta they were pushing they were also Platinum sponsor they were pushing a lot of newcomers features that they built into their chat interface and so they're they're leaning heavily into this chat for business thing and they have what's called, they've had it for for Facebook and Instagram for a while now they're adding it to WhatsApp so you can kind of. Use WhatsApp is your customer service channel for asynchronous chat and you can natively sell stuff through that, B dance which owns Tick-Tock and you know also one of the biggest Platforms in China they have a they have a couple apps now that are doing really well, and you heard it here first on the show the up-and-coming one in the u.s. is called the laminate which is kind of, Tik toks version of short form video Pinterest it's very product Centric wish you eccentric version of tick-tock, and it's targeted at kind of gen Z, users and they announced shopping features in eliminate so that was interesting, Twitter had a I don't think Twitter had a formal presence that I saw but it kind of leaked during the show that they had applied for a license I didn't realize you. [36:49] I don't know who the governing body here is but to do in app payments so. You know you on musk likes his digital payments and so we try Twitter's moving there. Their shop gave a keynote the founder in Minecon gave a keynote, and he talked about severe shop is a native we social commerce Marketplace, um and he talked about how you know most social commerce experiences just suck and particularly the post-purchase experienced when you're going to get this stuff how you would return it, the shipping confirmation all of all of that sort of stuff oh I forgot my promo code all of that sort of stuff most of these native checkout Schmitt are missing, and so you know he kind of position very shop is a more robust version of all those and, particularly interesting because they have a livestream feature and they're often called out as the livestream success story and he said live streaming is a mixed bag he's like, live streaming converts way better than any of our other media types but it has way poor reach than any of our other media types so his thing was, it's very hard to get people to watch your video live but when they do you can sell them some stuff. [38:09] And then the last keynote that was interesting to me in this whole social space is tapestry which is the parent company of coach, talked about this whole notion that you know people used to discover stuff in store and now they're discovering new products they want to buy on, Kamar on social media platforms, and so sort of influencers are becoming the new Merchants for all these products and so they talked a lot about their their micro influencer campaign, and I'm always pretty getting interested tapestry turns all of the coach employees into micro influencers so they give, tools to all their sales associates to kind of publish influencer content and they financially reward them for doing that so, so a lot of cool interesting stuff in social commerce in short form video in the hallways there's still a lot of conversation about. How you measure this and how big is it going to get and you know are we going to catch up to China or we inherently different like they're all these kind of. You know open questions that are still out there but there was just a heck of a lot of talk about this whole problem of discoveries not happening on the stood in the store as much it's happening on social networks so, you know how the heck do we make that Discovery happen as much as we'd like it to. Scot: [39:33] Yeah it's a fascinating problem the Pinterest guys have been at it forever and never really broken the code on it you think by now they would figure something out. Jason: [39:41] Yeah this is the most explicitly I've heard them say and we're all in on building Commerce features, um the you know he talked about the progress they've made on onboarding shoppable pins like you know a small percentage of all the pins on the site are, are shoppable right and when I look at readers I have some retailers with huge catalogs and you know they could have. Millions tens of millions and a few cases hundreds of millions of skews and they might have like 6,000 shoppable pins on Pinterest right and so those pins. Do pretty well but it just like the the infrastructure of Pinterest isn't really there to handle these these massive catalogs yet. Sounds like they're working on it and by the way the CTO at Pinterest used to be the CTO at Walmart so he Jeremy King knows how to do Commerce at scale. Scot: [40:33] Wow cool. Jason: [40:35] So then my third trend is. Like the most megatrend of the year at the show and outside the show and they're actually a bunch of things that were like hinted at the show that then happen afterwards is the hole, emergence of artificial intelligence and whether you want to generically talk about artificial intelligence or specifically about large language models or generative AI like theirs, there's a million ways to slice this but I did a fun thing I scraped all the exhibitors from the the show and there's something like. 680 something exhibitors at the show if I'm remembering approximately right but 23% of them describe themselves as an AI company. So everybody has an AI story whether they're you know how a gentleman it is or not. And I'll be honest this is a plea for anyone listening in the show do not send me an anonymous LinkedIn invite telling me that you're the one company that invented a revolutionary way to shop Vai for the first time. Because you didn't. But I get a lot of pitches and I'm sure there's some amazing ideas in there but there's also a lot of noise. [41:57] So at the show I think Salesforce may have announced this at their own show beforehand but you know they've had this AI, Persona called the Einstein for a while they announced Einstein GPT for Commerce so for the Salesforce Commerce Cloud they've licensed the opening I technology so they you know you can now, use the their language model for shopping functions on your Salesforce Commerce Cloud thing. Meta did a keynote and they talked a lot about. [42:31] The use cases they saw for AI and and they maybe like an interesting comment that Mark Zuckerberg and Senior leadership are spending the bulk of their time on AI, and it almost feels like they're starting to do this pivot we're like they're calling they're trying to call a i part of the metaverse so that they can, stay say that they're still on the original Mission, but it seems like they're leaning into a I more than the metaverse right now and they hinted about some new image tools and then this week they released a new tool called segments anything which is sort of like an intelligent, um tagging and masking system so I put it through its Paces it's pretty powerful. [43:17] You know imagine you're you have a catalog of 100 million a pair of pieces of apparel and maybe your Marketplace so all that content was developed by different people and you want to show all of the dresses, on a mannequin instead of a live model and you don't know if you have the talent rights to the live models. The segment anything makes it super easy to, Why move all those those dresses to a mannequin or to a flat you know, merchandising hero image or whatever you want to do like so these these tools are solving real business problems for for high-volume e-commerce sites that are pretty interesting. There was a lot of talk at the show there weren't so many scheduled sessions on AI because if you think about it. [44:04] Shopify or shoptalk you know booked other sessions months ago so I need before all this chechi Beauty Buzz started and so the titles of the sessions weren't so much a i generated but the content and all the sessions was AI Centric, um she PT is something we've talked about several times on the show we probably should do a deep dive but they launched a new framework called plugins and so now for the first time you can extend chat GPT with actual Commerce actions so you can say plan I said make a meal plan for a week I want it to be keto friendly I want the meals to all be under 2,000 calories for the day and cost less than $20 and be easy to make and order all the ingredients and chechi PT will, build you a meal plan figure out the calories figure out all the ingredients and place an order with instacart or Shopify for all the stuff on that that shopping list and as you and I have talked about. The chat CBT website is now a huge platform and it was the fastest technology in human history to get to 100 million active users it took him two months and so there's over 100 million people using that website every month and they can now use it for actually buying stuff if they so choose. Scot: [45:21] Yeah the plug-in framework is amazing the it's kind of a whole new platform it's crazy. Jason: [45:28] It's pretty exciting a nuanced conversation I'm having with clients is that plug-in framework is not for the API so it's not so much like extend the capabilities of the, AI engine you're getting from open a.i. that you're building in your own branded mobile app it's extending the capabilities of the website URL owned by chat gbt owned by open a right and so. It really like they're creating a destination that arguably is going to compete with Amazon or Tik-Tok for visits and attention and so it I don't know if that is kind of a, you know a short-term thing until this functionality gets you know ubiquitously deployed or whether that's permanently going to be a super high volume destination but it's super interesting right now. Scot: [46:17] Yes fastest product 200 million users of statue PT so it's well on its way to being a whole new destination and it's been funny watching Google be so dominant for so long and all the excesses of, one time I went there with an engineer and he had a hissy fit that he didn't get fresh coconut milk and and yeah it just has been raining money out of the sky for those guys for so long it's going to be interesting to see them with a new competitor and see how they react, I think I think they've had it easy for so long that's going to be very hard for them to react at all. Jason: [46:49] Yeah the one of the Keynotes was this guy Sean Downey who's the president of America's for Google and that was his kind of first position he's like. Yeah you know search is one of the ways you'll use generative AI but, you know they're like I'm really excited about all the capabilities that you know we've built into Google Cloud platform to enable other people's to do Ai and so you know they're they're kind of saying like hey don't look over here at the large language models where we're not doing very well like look look at all these other things, but he did kind of you know he he openly talked about it and he's like hey from our standpoint. There's three things that you're going to see retailers do with a I right, where you know you're going to use it to help businesses grow You by better ads do better marketing better targeting stuff like that, you're going to improve operational efficiencies and he talked a lot about the demand forecasting use cases Amazon later gave a keynote where they talked about how they're really leaning into a i for for supply chain efficiencies, and then you're you know you're going to have new customer experiences like it's going to be a lot easier to shop for a product you saw in an image or that you can see with your phone or, or things like that then it than it ever was before and so so yeah he talked about it. [48:14] You know Amazon talked about how they're seeing that they now have 600,000 skews that they ship in 90 markets same day. [48:24] And so the big question is what's the right 600,000 excuse to ship and and which ones in which markets. And so there are saying that like this is really a problem that you know is way more efficiently so via a Ai and so there you know increasingly turning over the, the demand forecasting to these AI models they're also like heavily leaning into a i automation for the, the Fulfillment centers and you know you've talked about. They originally acquired Kiva and which was kind of an early a i model and they were kind of slow to really push that out to all the Fulfillment centers but it sounds like with their new focus on efficiency. The the heat is turning up on automating all these these fulfillment centers with quite a bit more. Um so those those kind of supply chain and back of house AI stuff we talked about a lot a thing that I didn't think about that's coming up a lot is. AI for employee training like that they're all these. [49:28] Tools about training people and helping people understand new Concepts and having access to vast knowledge bases and things like that and so a lot of the use cases that the show were, AI tools for employee upscaling in education which I thought was pretty interesting. Of the obvious application that we've done the most with is AI for product content so you know writing better product descriptions writing more unique product descriptions generating better in images, stuff like that and then again not a formal session but a lot of hallway conversation about. The brand risk associated with all of these AI engines so you know Getty is suing one of the big AI engines for kind of illegally training, on trademark Getty Images there was big news this week that some a bunch of Samsung Engineers were taking their most. [50:31] Why proprietary secret code like the debugging code for some of the the you know silicone chips that suck that Samsung makes, and uploading them to chat gbt to debug which you know then means open a.i. employees had access to all this you know all these Sam, secrets, um so they're a lot of those kind of things and the most bizarre but interesting keynote at the show and I think shoptalk always gets one of these like left-field Keynotes where you go why is this person in a Commerce show was Jeffrey katzenberg. [51:03] Who's you know one of the founders of DreamWorks and he works for a VC now or is one of the founders of a VC I think it's called Wonder company, and one of the companies in their portfolio is a net is an AI company called Natoma me and, they're trying to solve part of this brand safety thing they've invented their own flavor of, large language model they're calling sanctioned a I wear the the AI model is trained on a constraint set of data and it can only learn from that data, and so their pitch is hey you want to have an employee knowledge base and you don't want it to run them run amok and start trying to talk employees into leaving their spouses and stuff like that that like, the sanctioned a I approach is a much, bran safer sensible way to do it so I don't know where that all that out but it's it's super interesting to think about some of these problems. Are you worried at all about AI. Scot: [52:07] I am yeah there's there's a lot of icky things to be decided you know where yeah right now these things are crawling all this data and coming up with these insights from you know is that fair use copyright none of the IP laws were written with any of those in mind sir, there's a whole lot of lawyer and that's going to have to go on to figure it out so then being able to turn it on your own data is super handy because you own it and you could have your own little way either. It's happening so fast you can't even keep track of it you know there's there's people that now have wired a chat GPT to these 0 code interfaces so you can using your voice and some prompts you can build apps now it's just kind of. It's really crazy to see where this is going so fast. Jason: [52:52] Yeah yeah yeah I mean to me the speed is the the super exciting so a scary thing there was this letter that came out last week you know that was signed by, um a bunch of like super credible AI researchers and also some. Some like interesting you know competitors and people would likely ulterior motives there was calling for a pause on on all AI research that's more powerful than Chet CPT for and so now, you know all of my clients that are like hey I think I should be doing a I but you know, I have too much on my plate and I don't know what to do they're now using this letter as kind of an excuse to slow play it right because they're like. Like what are the you know concerns and ethics about all this stuff so I do I'm not saying they're necessarily wrong but this letter is I'm kind of dubious of this letter did you follow the. Nothing at all. Scot: [53:51] Yeah I don't think it's kind of causing one to slow down by any means so it seems. Jason: [53:58] That's a point like like how could it like a it's like. Is China gonna follow the pot like you know I mean you're not like them nobody's gonna be able to enforce it like there's no like what's the governing body that's going to enforce that and it has language in it like. Stop AI models more powerful than Chet gbt for well what's the metric for how powerful a large language model is. [54:25] Like how you know is bared more powerful I don't know. [54:30] Yeah so yeah I don't know but it it does put some fear uncertainty and doubt in the whole thing which is just kind of interesting and then the last of my four Trends is retailers becoming platforms, so you have a bunch of big retailers Amazon Walmart and instacart the between them had seven booths at the show. Walmart was a two-time gold Platinum sponsor of the show right so they separately have a Walmart marketplace booth, Walmart Commerce Technologies Booth where they're selling they're their SAS Commerce platform they're selling their Walmart go delivery services and they separately had a booth for Walmart data Ventures which is illuminate and all these, these other services like monetizing Walmart data, Amazon had three booths they had a by with prime Booth which is super interesting and they were they were touting, 25% sales with Don sites that added by with Prime and there was a lot of hallway conversation about the pros and cons of by with, that Amazon pay Booth which I found it interesting that they didn't roll Amazon pay into the buy with prime booth that it was its own separate booth and then. There are third booth that I have to be honest I think it was watch before the show but I had never heard of it till the show called Amazon today are you familiar with Amazon today. [55:56] Yeah so this is a service for brick-and-mortar retailers to list their in-store inventory, on Amazon search and if a customer wants to buy it they'll have an Amazon Flex driver go to your store pick it up and then deliver it to the customer. [56:13] So it's extending the marketplace inventory to the to the you know these brick-and-mortar retailers and so I, GNC PacSun and Superdry were three retailers that were always piloting it and I I think what that means is like, retail to the word that you know who's inventory isn't Shopify which is funny that it's Amazon. [56:37] But yeah I hadn't heard of that service and that's interesting like I'm digging into that service more but like. It just super interesting that like a company that you think of as a, competitor for a bunch of retailers has three separate booth that are booths at a retail trade show selling stuff to other retailers and by the way they're huge Marketplace they did not have a booth recruiting marketplace hours, I'm assuming because most of the new Marketplace sellers are located in other countries. And then instacart who you think of is a b2c company that has a bunch of consumers going in their website they had a booth totally dedicated to all the white labeled services, they're selling and most of them have carried in the name so I call it carried everything they call it instacart platforms, so it just super interesting to me to see all of these retailers again saying. Selling bananas is a well margin business it's way better to sell Services I Scot Wingo used to do it at Channel advisor. [57:48] Exactly yeah so you have a lot of Prospectors that are starting second careers as as pickaxe salesman. Scot: [57:56] Analogy. Jason: [57:58] Yeah and then of course there's all the, the actual platforms that are you know dramatically expanding their their services so Shopify waiting into the Professional Services Market a lot more Salesforce weaning into it and then a social commerce platform snap, actually like was selling all of their AI stuff which there are I'm sorry AR stuff which they're pretty you know advanced in as white labeled services to build into your own apps. Scot: [58:27] Probably cleanses and. Jason: [58:29] So if you want like if you have a product catalog that you need you know that's why I get home decor and you need to visualize it in the canoe in the consumer wants to, you know kind of use a IR to visualize it in the room or makeup Tryon or, or you know those kinds of things or maybe you want to scan a shelf and overlay reviews over product on the shelf or any of those kind of a our use cases you can now license a set of snap. And I think they call it snap are at our ease which I think a res is acronym for something but. You can you can license all those capabilities from snap instead of building them yourself. Yeah so that was in my those were my big takeaways from the show the kind of stuff that didn't make my list but came up a few times, there's a lot of talk about the the macro-environment macroeconomic environment and all the uncertainty there were a lot of sessions around convenience and Rapid delivery, they're you know our e-commerce and resale is still a big thing and there's kind of just this General notion that that it's the year of efficiency so retailers are investing a lot more in. In stuff that has a short term Roi and that's kind of back-of-house in the lesson just growing at all costs. Do you feel like you've been in the show now. Scot: [59:52] I knew that was awesome you saved me a lot of travel and a lot of trips in Starbucks. Jason: [59:58] Yes but you missed enjoying a bunch of iced lattes with me and you know hearing from all the fans that appreciate your your knowledge and POV on this podcast. Scot: [1:00:10] Yeah we need to open up an auto segment and then I can justify the trip can't do it right now. Jason: [1:00:16] Oh I forgot the most important part they announced a new show shoptalk fall. So shoptalk is normally in April they have two shows in the u.s. shoptalk in April grocery shop in October and then there's a shoptalk Europe that's in I think June or May so they're starting in 2024 they're going to have to shop talk shows in the US, the regular shoptalk in Las Vegas in March and a shoptalk fall which will be in my hometown of Chicago in late September. Yeah so second show I think there's some controversy if you're an exhibitor at grocery shop and shoptalk those two shows might be pretty close together and it could be annoying but I'm excited that a bunch of my Commerce friends will have an excuse to come visit me in Chicago and I'm thinking we I got a host some kind of event for a meet up for for listeners that want to get together because I never get to schedule meetings with as many people as I'd like to. Scot: [1:01:22] Yeah that's a lot easier to get to than Vegas for me so we'll see. Jason: [1:01:25] Yeah that's why I'm saying is you and I we should have a Jason and Scot Show event and we'll get like. Foxtrot is a local market and restaurant to host like cater breakfast tacos for everyone or something. Scot: [1:01:40] Okay I'm liking the sound of that did they announce the time let's work what will work on it offline. Jason: [1:01:45] And you think like if I was going to do a podcast I would do some research and get my intern on it it is October 8th through the 10th 2024 in Chicago at Javits Center. Scot: [1:01:57] All right let me check the calendar and get back with you. Jason: [1:02:01] I like it I know that was a lot there was a little bit of Amazon news did you have a POV on the recent layoffs. Scot: [1:02:11] It's been pretty dry an Amazon lamp they're just really trimming staff like crazy so they announced yet another 9,000 way off so I think this gets up to 27,000 because Amazon rules the warehouse people into their head count they're always in a million so it's feels like a small percentage but these are coming from, yeah I've heard the Alexa team got hit pretty hard, Lester was way out in front and all these new chat gbt capabilities far none of them are on a device yet but pretty soon I think we'll see it all over the place, there's some speculation maybe Microsoft will come out with a new phone products that would be that gbt enabled which would be kind of an interesting next-gen phone platform so I think. They've got a lot of precious they got macro they having to trim their head count to hit their numbers from a bottom-line perspective they were hired and then they're in this kind of gun / a knife fight over a i. So it's very interesting to see what they do the rest of the year around some of these these areas it's a tough sledding for sure for Amazon right now. Jason: [1:03:19] Yeah it's interesting because on the one hand you if you look at how many people Amazon added over the last 18 months like the layoffs don't you know. Don't seem that severe but it is interesting like some of these layoffs were in pretty key areas like areas that you would think of is primarily. Like income additive like they like they laid off people in the Amazon ad unit right which. To me that's not necessary where you'd expect to see. Ceci hits I personally am a little sad that they have this huge focus on efficiency because I very selfishly feel like the the echo Hardware is getting kind of long in the tooth and now there's all this new exciting large language model capability and like I'm super eager to see like a vastly improved. Solution there and I'm kind of worried that like all of this efficiency stuff is going to slow down the likelihood that it's going to come from Amazon. Scot: [1:04:19] Yeah I talked to a lot of people at Amazon still and something happened kind of during the pandemic where, the whole work from home and then the explosion of employees they've lost their efficiency so you know for a long they did it better than any other company with the two pizzas team Rule and all this Jazz but now there's so many to Pizza teams running around none of them know what's going on and it's kind of total chaos has become very hard to get stuff done, so I don't know them feel like trimming that count can be a good thing. Jason: [1:04:53] Yeah no I feel like the investors have mostly liked it by the way but yeah I think the big problem is its Day 2 at Amazon. Scot: [1:05:04] To be sets the stage for a bob Iger like return of pesos at some point maybe he'll. Jason: [1:05:10] Yeah I think that was that was on the bubble for me as a prediction for this year so. I don't think I actually pulled the trigger on it so I hope it doesn't happen this year I'll kick myself. But Scott what a shock we've used a lot of time again so as always if you found value we'd love it if you jump on iTunes and leave us that five-star review, and super appreciate everyone taking the time and all the kind words that you passed along the Scott and I the we're grateful that the show adds value and we really appreciate you guys. Scot: [1:05:47] Yeah have a great spring break Jason and until next time. Jason: [1:05:51] Happy Commercing.

The guys open the podcast discussing an outing to the Price is Right at Mystic Lake, David's week in the Magic Kingdom and Frozen Four being played in Florida. Then it's on to the beers for the night, and the Loons draw against Vancouver. The talk about the formation, Menders goal, MLS Veteran Valentin, & added minutes. Next, the guys make their predictions for Saturday's match up against St. Louis, Connor has a little MN Soccer history, and they finish the episode with a story about some prisoners who ended up at an IHOP.

Stephanie is joined today by a very special guest, Andrea Goulet. Andrea founded Empathy In Tech as part of writing her book Empathy-Driven Software Development (https://empathyintech.com/). She's also the founder of the community Legacy Code Rocks (https://www.legacycode.rocks/) and the Chief Vision Officer of two companies: Corgibytes (https://corgibytes.com/) and Heartware (https://www.heartware.dev/) (which provides financial support to keep Empathy In Tech running). Stephanie has strong opinions about the concept of "Makers and Menders" that the Corgibytes folks have written/spoken about, especially around those personas and gender stereotypes. Andrea joins Steph to evolve the conversation and add nuance to the discussion about legacy code/maintenance in our community. This episode is brought to you by Airbrake (https://airbrake.io/?utm_campaign=Q3_2022%3A%20Bike%20Shed%20Podcast%20Ad&utm_source=Bike%20Shed&utm_medium=website). Visit Frictionless error monitoring and performance insight for your app stack. Makers and Menders from Corgibytes (https://corgibytes.com/blog/2015/08/14/makers-vs-menders/) Empathy in Tech (https://empathyintech.com/) Legacy Code Rocks (https://www.legacycode.rocks/) Forget Technical Debt — Here's How to Build Technical Wealth (https://review.firstround.com/forget-technical-debt-heres-how-to-build-technical-wealth) Equal Partners by Kate Mangino (https://bookshop.org/p/books/equal-partners-improving-gender-equality-at-home-kate-mangino/18336353) Sustainable Web Development Episode (https://www.bikeshed.fm/368) Transcript: AD: thoughtbot is thrilled to announce our own incubator launching this year. If you are a non-technical founding team with a business idea that involves a web or mobile app, we encourage you to apply for our eight-week program. We'll help you move forward with confidence in your team, your product vision, and a roadmap for getting you there. Learn more and apply at tbot.io/incubator. STEPHANIE: Hello and welcome to another episode of The Bike Shed, a weekly podcast from your friends at thoughtbot about developing great software. I'm Stephanie Minn., And today I'm joined by a very special guest, Andrea Goulet. Hi, Andrea. ANDREA: Hello, thanks for having me. STEPHANIE: So here on The Bike Shed, we like to start by sharing something new in our world. Could you tell us a bit about yourself and anything new going on for you? ANDREA: Yeah, so I have a background in strategic communications, and then kind of made a windy journey over to software. And so, for the past 13 years, I've been focused on modernizing legacy systems. And legacy is kind of a loose term; something you write today can be legacy. But essentially, we kind of help modernize any kind of software, any language, any platform, any framework. And so, over the course of doing that, in the work that I did before I came to software, I had a very technical understanding of empathy and communications and had just done a lot of that. And I just noticed how much that mattered in creating healthy and sustainable codebases. So now I'm kind of taking that experience, and I've got a book contract called "Empathy-Driven Software Development." So I've been working on just diving into a lot of the really deep research. So that's been kind of my focus for the past two years. And it's been really surprising because there were things that were positioned as truths, and then it's like, wait a second, neuroscience is completely upending everything. So it's been a fun learning journey. And I'm excited to share some of the things that I've learned over the years, especially [laughs] in the past two years with this book. So that is the new thing with me. And it's...I was telling you before it just feels like a constant new thing. Anybody who's written a book...it's the hardest thing I've ever done, so... [laughs] STEPHANIE: Yeah, that sounds tough but also kind of exciting because you're learning so many new things that then kind of shape how you view the world, it sounds like. ANDREA: Yeah. Yeah, it really does. And I think I really like diving into the details. And I think what started this was...my business partner, Scott, at the time, really embodied the stereotypical 2010 software developer down to the scruffy beard and dark-rimmed glasses. And what I found incredibly interesting was he had this belief of I'm good with machines, but I'm bad with people. And he just had this really deeply ingrained. On the flip side, I had this belief of, oh, I'm good with people, but I'm bad with machines. I'll never learn how to code. And I found that really interesting. And personally, I had to go through a journey because we went on...it was the first time either of us had ever been on a podcast. So this was about ten years ago. And at the end of the podcast, Scott was the only one on there. And he said, you know, the person asked about his origin story and about our company Corgibytes. And he was like, "Yeah, you know, Andrea is amazing. She's our non-technical founder." And by that time, I had been coding next to him for like three years. And I was like, why the heck would you call me non-technical? And I just felt this...what is it that I have to do to prove it to you? Do I have to actually go get a CS degree? I know I'm self-taught, but does that mean that I'm not good enough? What certificates do I need? Do I need to sit down next to you? Do I need to change my lifestyle? Do I need to look like you? So I was really upset [laughing] and just thinking through, how dare you? How dare you label me as non-technical? And Scott is very quiet and patient, great with people, I think. [laughs] And he listened and said, "I use the words that you use to describe yourself. When we were in a sales meeting right before that phone call, I paid attention to how you introduced yourself, and I pretty much used the same words. So when you call yourself technical, I will too." That shattered my world. It shattered my identity because then it put the responsibility of belonging on me. I couldn't blame other people for my not feeling like I didn't belong. That journey has just been so profound. This is what I see a lot of times with empathy is that we have these kinds of self-identities, but then we're afraid to open up and share. And we make these assumptions of other people, but, at the same time, there's real-world evidence. And so, how do we interpret that? In addition to this, Scott...like, part of the reason I called myself non-technical was because all of the people I saw who were like me or had my background, that's the word that was used to describe someone like me. And when I would go to a conference, you know, I have a feminine presentation. And this was ten years ago. My very first conference was 300 software developers, and there were probably about 295 men. And I was one of five women in the room. And because I looked so different and because I stood out, the first question that anybody would ask me, and this was about 30% to 40% of introductions, was, "Are you technical or non-technical?" And I had to choose between this binary. And I was like; I don't know. Am I technical? Like, is it a CEO that can code? I don't know. But then I have this background. And so I would just default to, "No, I guess I'm non-technical," because that's what felt safe because that's what they assumed. And I just didn't know, and I didn't realize that I was then building in this identity. And so then, as part of trying to create a warm and inclusive organization, we did one of the unconscious bias surveys from Harvard. And what astonished me when I did that myself was that I didn't have a whole lot of bias, like, there was some. But the most profound bias was against women in the workplace, and it stood out a big one. I was like, how is it that I can be someone who's a fierce advocate, but then that's my own bias against people like me? What the heck is going on? So really exploring all of this. And I think Scott and I have had so many different conversations over the years. We actually ended up getting married. And so we have a personal reason to figure a lot of this stuff out too. And when we start to have those conversations about who am I and what's important to me, then all of a sudden, we can start creating better code. We can start working together better as a team. We can start advocating for our needs. Other people know what we need ahead of time. And we're not operating out of defensiveness; we're operating out of collaboration and creativity. So the book and kind of everything is inspired by my background and my lived experience but then also seeing Scott and his struggles, too, because he had been told like, "You're a geek. Stay in the computers. Stay in the code. You're not allowed to talk to customers because you're bad at it," and flat out was told that. So how do we overcome these labels that people have put on us, and then we've made part of our own identity? And which ones are useful, and then which ones are not? Because sometimes labels can create a sense of community and affinity and so how do we know? And it's complicated, but the same thing, software is complicated. We can take skills like empathy and communication. We can look at them schematically and operationalize them when we look at them in kind of detail. So that's what I enjoy doing is looking under the hood and figuring out how does all this stuff work? So... [laughs] STEPHANIE: I did want to respond to a few things that I heard you say when you're talking about going to a conference and feeling very much in the minority. I went to my first RailsConf in 2022, my first RailsConf in person, and I was shocked at the gender imbalance. And I feel like every time I used the women's restroom; I was looking around and trying to make a connection with someone and have a bit of a kinship and be like, oh yes, you are here with me in this space. And then we would have a conversation and walk out together, and that felt very meaningful because the rest of the space, you know, I wasn't finding my people. And so I feel that very hard. I think this is also a good time to transition into the idea of makers and menders, especially because we have been talking about labels. So you all talked about this distinction between the different types of work in software development. So we have greenfield work, and that is writing code from scratch, making all the decisions about how to set up an application, exploring a whole new domain that hasn't been codified yet. And that is one type of work. But there's also mender-type work, which is working in existing applications, legacy code, refactoring, and dealing with the complexity of something that has stood the test of time but may or may not have gotten a lot of investment or care and bringing that codebase back to life if you will. And when I first heard about that distinction, I was like, yes, I'm a mender. This is what I like to do. But the more I thought about it, I started to also feel conflicted because I felt pain doing that work as well. ANDREA: Oh, interesting, yeah. STEPHANIE: Especially in the context of teams that I've been on when that work was not valued. And I was doing maintenance work and fixing bugs and either specifically being assigned to do that work or just doing it because I knew it needed to be done and no one else was doing it. And that had caused me a lot of frustration before because I would look around and be on a team with mostly White men and be like, why aren't they picking up any of this work as well? And so I was thinking about how I both felt very seen by the acknowledgment that this is work, and this is valid work, and it's important work, but also a little bit confused because I'm like, how did I get here? Did I pigeonhole myself into doing this work? Because the more I did it, the better I got at it, the more comfortable and, to whatever degree, enjoyed it. But at the same time, I'm not totally sure I was given the opportunity to do greenfield work earlier in my career. That could have changed where my interests lie. ANDREA: Yeah, it is. And it's funny that you mentioned this because I actually I'm a maker. But yeah, I created this community, and I'm known for this thing. And I had a very similar experience to how do I exist as someone who's different in this kind of community? And I think part of it is, you know, there's a great quote by George Box, who is a statistician, and he says, "All models are wrong; some are useful." And I think that's kind of the whole idea with the maker-mender is that it is a signal to be like, hey, if you like fixing stuff...because there is so much shame, like, that's what we were responding to. And Scott had the opposite problem of what you have experienced, where he was only allowed to work on greenfield work. They were like, "No, you're a good developer. So we want you working on features. We won't let you fix the bugs. We won't let you do the work that you like doing." And so that's why he wanted to create Corgibytes because he's like, "This work needs to be done." I am so personally passionate about this. And when we were having these conversations 13 years ago, I was talking to him about product/market fit and stuff like that. And I was like, "You like fixing software, and there's a lot of software out there to be fixed." I just was very, very confused as to why this kind of existed. And we had been told flat out, "You're never going to find anybody else like Scott. You're never going to be able to build a company around people who find a lot of joy in doing this work." And I think that this comes down to identity and kind of the way that Legacy Code Rocks was built too. A lot of the signaling that we put out there and the messaging and stuff really came from Scott's feeling of, like, I want to find more people like me. So being in the women's bathroom and like, how do I find more menders? Or how do I find people...because we were walking through a Barnes & Noble, and it was like a maker fest, maker everything. And he's like, "I don't have a community. There's nowhere for me to go to create these meaningful connections," exactly like you were saying. "I have maybe two people in my network." And then we were at a conference in 2015. We were at the large agile conference. And it was one of the first ones that I've been to that had a software craft track. And we met like 20 people who were really, like, I just saw Scott light up in a way that I hadn't seen him light up because he could geek out on this level that I hadn't seen him do before. And so when I asked, like, "How do you guys stay in touch afterwards?" And they're like, "Oh no, we don't. We don't know how to build a community." And it's like, well, okay, well, we can get that started. To your response of like, how do you operate when it is presented as a binary? And it's like, am I this, or am I this? This kind of gets down to the idea of identity-wise, is it a binary, or is it a spectrum? I tend to think of it kind of like an introvert-extrovert spectrum where it's like there is no wrong or right, and you can move in different places. And I think being able to explain the nuances of the modeling around how we came up with this messaging can get lost a lot of times. But I'm with you, like, how...and that's kind of something now where it's like, okay, maybe my role was to just start this conversation, but then everybody's having these ideas. But there are people who genuinely feel seen, you know. STEPHANIE: Yeah, that's really interesting because what I'm hearing is that when there's this dominant narrative of what a developer should be, and should be good at, and what they should do, it's kind of like what you were saying earlier about how hard it was for you to claim that identity yourself. People who feel differently aren't seen, and that's, I think, the problem. And I'm very, very interested in the gender aspect of it because one thing that I've noticed is that a lot of my female developer friends do do more of that mending work. So when you talk about feeling like there was no community out there, it just wasn't represented at the time, you know, a decade ago for sure. And still, even now, I think we're just starting to elevate those voices and that work. I wanted to share that at thoughtbot; we have different teams for different business verticals. And so we do have a rapid validation prototyping team. We do have a greenfield like MVP, V1 product team. And then we also have a team, Boost, the team that I'm on. That is more team augmentation, working with legacy code and existing systems. And it was not lost on me that Boost has the most women. [laughs] ANDREA: Yeah, because you have the concept of cognitive load and mental load. STEPHANIE: Yes. ANDREA: Women at home end up taking a lot more of this invisible labor that's behind the scenes. Like, you're picking the kids up from school, or you're doing the laundry, or all these things that are just behind the scenes. And this was actually something...so when Scott and I also got married, that's when I first became aware of this, and it was very similar. And it was, okay, how do I...because Scott and I, both in our business and in our personal partnership, we wanted it to be based on equity. And then also, like, how do I show up? And for me, the hardest thing with that was letting go of control where it's like, it has to be a certain way. It's hard for me to comment on the broader enterprise level because what I see at Corgibytes is we have gender parity. That's been pretty balanced over the course of our..., and we're a small boutique company, so it's different. But then, in the larger community of Legacy Code Rocks, it tends to be more male. There are actually fewer women in there. And I think, too, like there's this idea of testers and QA, like, I think that falls in there as well, and that's heavily dominant. And I think sometimes it's like, oh...and I think this kind of comes to the problem of it, like, it's the way that we think about the work in general. And this might be useful just to think about kind of the way that it came about was, you know, makers and menders was we were putting together [laughs] actually this talk for this conference that we went to. And my background in marketing, I was trying to wrap my brain around when is it appropriate for mending? And I had my marketing degree. It's like, oh, the product lifecycle. And Scott's retort was, "It needs to be a circle. We're agile, so it needs to be a circle." And I was like, this doesn't make any sense. Because look, if you have maturity and then you have it...oh my gosh, it'll link back to innovation, and then you can do new stuff. And so yeah, I think when we describe makers and menders, and this is true with any label, the idea in the broader model is that makers and menders aren't necessarily distinct, and your team should 1,000%...everyone should be contributing. And if you only have one person who's doing this work, you're at a detriment. That's not healthy for your codebase like; this should be baked in. And the mender is more of like, this is where I get my joy. It's more of an opt-in. But I think that your observation about the invisible labor and how that gets translated to maintenance work is accurate. A lot of times, like when Scott was describing his thing, it's like, there's the movie "Office Space." I might be dating myself. But there's this guy, Milton, and it's like, "Just go to the basement." He was told maintenance is where good software careers go to die. [laughs] And so over the years, it's like, how do we celebrate this and make it more part of the maker work? And it's similar to how introverts and extroverts...it's like, we all work together, and you need all of it. But there is an extrovert bias. And extroverts are seen more as, oh, they have leadership traits and stuff. But increasingly, we're starting to see, no, actually, that's not the only way that you can be effective. So I think it's hard. And I think it does come down to belonging. And I think that there are also different cultural impacts there. And it comes down to just a lot of different lived experiences. And I so appreciate you sharing your point of view. And I'm curious, what would help you feel more like you belong? Is it the work and the environment that you're in that's kind of contributing to this feeling? Or is it other things in general or? STEPHANIE: Okay, so I did want to address real quick what you were saying about mental load and household labor because I think I really only started thinking about this after I read a book called "Equal Partners" by Kate Mangino, where she talks about how to improve gender equality at home, and I loved that book so much. And I suddenly started to see it everywhere in life and obviously at work too. And that's kind of what really drove my thinking around this conversation, maintenance work being considered less skilled labor or things that get offloaded to someone else. I think that really frustrates me because I just don't believe that's true. And to get back to what you were asking about what would make me feel more seen or valued, I think it's systemic. But I also think that organizations can make change within their cultures around incentives especially. When you are only promoted if you do greenfield work and write thousands of lines of code, [laughs] that's what people will want to do. [laughs] And not even just promotions, but who gets a kudos in Slack? Or when do you get positive encouragement? As a consultant, I've worked on different client teams that had different values, and that was when I really struggled to be in those environments. I have a really strong memory of working on a greenfield project, but there was another male developer who was just cranking out features and doing all of this work and then demoing it to stakeholders. But then there was one feature that he had implemented but had faked the data. So he hadn't finished the backend part of it but just used fake data to demo the user interface to stakeholders. And then he moved on to something else. And I was like, wait; this isn't done. [laughs] But at that point, stakeholders thought it was done. They thought that it was complete. They gave him positive feedback for finishing it. And then I had to come in and be like, "This isn't done. Someone needs to work on this." And that person ended up being me. And that was really frustrating because I was doing that behind-the-scenes work, the under-the-hood work for something that had already been attributed to someone else. And yeah, I think about that a lot and what systems or what the environment was that led to that particular dynamic. MID-ROLL AD: Debugging errors can be a developer's worst nightmare...but it doesn't have to be. Airbrake is an award-winning error monitoring, performance, and deployment tracking tool created by developers for developers that can actually help cut your debugging time in half. So why do developers love Airbrake? It has all of the information that web developers need to monitor their application - including error management, performance insights, and deploy tracking! 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You literally have nothing to lose. Head on over to airbrake.io/try/bikeshed to create your FREE developer account today! STEPHANIE: Do you have any advice for leaders who want to make sure there's more equity for people who like to do mending and legacy code work? ANDREA: Yeah, absolutely. I am so grateful for your questions and your perspective because this is not something that's talked about a lot, and it is so important. I wrote an article for First Round Review. This was in 2016 or 2017. And it was called "Forget Technical Debt — Here's How to Build Technical Wealth," and so if you want to link to it in the show notes. It's a really long article and that goes into some of the specifics around it, but it's meant for CEOs. It really is meant for CEOs. And I do think that you're right; some of it is that we have lionized this culture of making and the work that is more visible. And it's like, oh, okay, great, here's all the visual design stuff. That's fantastic, but then recognizing there's a lot of stuff that's behind the scenes too. So in terms of leaders, I think some of it is you have to think about long-term thinking instead of just the short-term. Don't just chase the new shiny. Also, you need to be really aware of what your return on investment is. Because the developers that are working on maintaining and making sure that your mission-critical systems don't fail those are the ones that have the highest value in your organization because if that system goes down, your company makes money. Greenfield work, yes, it's very...and I'm not downplaying greenfield work for sure. I'm definitely, [laughs] like, I love doing that stuff. I love doing the generating phase. And at the same time, if we only look towards kind of more the future bias...there's a great book that we were featured in called "The Innovation Delusion" that talks about this more in general. But if we only look at the visible work that's coming, then we forget what's important now. And so for leaders, if you're running a software company, know where your mission-critical systems are and recognize the importance of maintaining them. That's the very first step. The second step is to recognize the complexities of a situation, like, to think about things in terms of complex systems instead of complicated systems. And I'll describe the difference. So when I came to software, I had been working in the creative field, like in advertising, and branding, and copywriting, and all that. And we got inputs. We kind of ran it through this process, and then we delivered. And we did a demo and all of that stuff. It was when is the timeline? When is it done? Big air quotes. And we were pretty predictably able to deliver on our delivery day. Sometimes things would go wrong, but we kind of had a sense because we had done the same pattern over and over again. You don't get that in legacy code because the variables are so immense that you cannot predict in the same way. You have to adopt a new strategy for how do you measure effectiveness. And the idea of measuring software productivity in terms of new features or lines of code, like, that's something that goes all the way back to Dykstra [laughs] in the 1970s around, is that the right way? Well, a lot of people who code are like, "No, that's not." This is a debate that goes back to the earliest days of computing. But I think that the companies that are able to build resilient systems have a competitive advantage. If a leader wants to look at their systems, whether that is a social system and the people in their organization or whether or not it's their software if you look at it from a systems thinking, like, there are interactions that I need to pay attention to not just process, that is super key as well. And then the last one is to recognize, like, one of our core values is communication is just as important as code. I would be remiss to neglect empathy and communication in part of this, but that really is so important. Because when we position things in terms of...and I don't know as much about thoughtbot and kind of the overall strategy, but kind of an anti-pattern I have seen just in general in organizational behavior is that when you structure teams functionally and silo them, you're not getting that diversity of thought. So the way that we approach it is, like, put a mender on a maker team because they're going to have a different perspective. And then, you can work together to get things out the door faster and value each other's perspectives and recognize strengths and shadows. So, for me, as a maker, I'm like, I've got a huge optimism bias, and we can go through all this stuff. And for Scott, it's like he struggles to know when he's done. Like, for me, I'm like, cool, we're 80% done. I got it. We're good to go. And for Scott, he'll work on something, and then it's like, I have to stop him. So recognizing that we help each other, that kind of thought diversity and experience diversity goes across so many different vectors, not just makers and menders. But I think, to me, it's about reframing value so that you're not just thinking about what it is right now in this moment. And I think a lot of this comes down to investor strategy too. Because if you've got an investor that you're trying to appease and they're just trying to make short-term monetary gains, it's much harder to think in terms of long term. And I think it's developers understanding business, business understanding the struggles of developers and how they need lots of focus time, and how estimating is really freaking hard, and why if you demand something, it's going to be probably not right. And then coming up with frameworks together where...how can I describe this in a way? So to me, it really is about empathy and communication at the end of the day when we're talking about interactions and how do we operationalize it. STEPHANIE: I like what you said about reframing value because I do believe that it starts from the top. When you value sustainability...my co-host, Joël, had an episode about sustainability as a value in software development. But then that changes, like I mentioned before, the incentive structures and who gets rewarded for what type of work. And I also think that it's not only diverse types of people who like doing different types of work, but there is value in doing both. And I know we talked about it being a spectrum earlier, but I strongly believe that doing the legacy code work and experiencing what it's like to try to change a system that you are like, I have no idea why this decision was made or like, why is the code like this? That will help inform you. If you do do greenfield work, those are really important skills, I think, to bring to that other type of work as well. Because then you're thinking about, okay, how can I make decisions that will help the developers down the line when I'm no longer on this project? ANDREA: Exactly, which is a form of empathy. [laughs] STEPHANIE: Yeah, it is a form of empathy, exactly. And the reverse is also true too. I was thinking about, okay, how can working in greenfield code help inform working with legacy code? And I was like, oh, you have so much energy when the world is completely open to you, and you can make whatever decisions to deliver value. And I've really struggled working in legacy code, feeling like I don't have any options and that I have to repeat a pattern that's already been set or that I'm just kind of stuck with what I've been given. But I think that there is some value in injecting more of that agency into working with legacy code as well. ANDREA: Well, and I think, too, I think you hit it on the head because, like I said, with the mental load at home, it was like, I had to be okay with things failing where it's like, it wasn't exactly the way I would do it, and I had to be okay with that. Like, oh, the dishes aren't put in the dishwasher exactly the same way I would do it. I'm not going behind it. And like, okay, it's not perfect. That's...whoo, it's going to be okay. And I think that's kind of what we experience, too, is this idea of we have to figure out how we work together in a way that is sustainable. And I think that, similar to my experience with the technical, non-technical piece, there is an onus. Now, granted, I want to be very careful here to not...there is trauma, and there is absolutely horrific discrimination and abuse. And that is not what I'm talking about here in terms of power dynamics. I am talking more about self-identity and self-expression. And I think that if you are in a community like makers and menders, yeah, we're less represented. There is a little bit of an onus, the technical, non-technical, like the onus of understanding what non-technical means and where I can push back is really important work for me to do. Because what I was surprised with was everyone there, like, when I started asking...so my response ended up being, "Help me understand, why did you ask that question?" And I took ownership of the narrative. And it was like, oh, well, what I found was that most of the people were like, if you're a recruiter, I don't want to waste your time with a bunch of stuff that you don't want to talk about. And then being able to say, "Oh, okay, I can see that, and you assumed that I was a recruiter because of the way I looked. And I understand the intention here. Next time, if I'm at a software conference, assume that I know how to code and assume that I'm here for a reason." And a great opening question is, "What brought you here?" I'm like, oh, okay, when we ask a close-ended question, we position things as a binary, like, are you technical or non-technical? That creates a lot of cognitive dissonance, and it's hard. But if I open it up and say, "What brought you here?" Then I can create my own narrative. There is an aspect of setting boundaries and pushing back a little bit like you said, agency. And that can be really hard because it gets at the core of who you are, and then you have to really explore it. And what I found, at least, is in the majority, there have been exceptions, but in the majority of the male-dominated groups that I've been in in my career in software, the majority are very welcoming and want me to be there. But I feel inadequate, and it's more impostor syndrome than I think it is people being discriminatory. Learning about the differences between that and where is my responsibility and where's your responsibility in this that's a tough tension to play. STEPHANIE: Absolutely. And I think that's why it's really important that we're having a conversation like this. I think what you're getting at is just the harm of the default assumption that is chronic, [laughs] at least for me sometimes. And you mentioned earlier the history of computing a little bit. And I was really excited about that because I did a little bit of digging and learned about women's history in computing and how after World War II, programming, you know, there were so many women. In fact, I think by 1960, more than one in four programmers were women, and they were working on mission-critical work like for NASA for, you know, during World War II for code-breaking. And I read that at the time, that work was deemed boring and tedious, and that's why men didn't want to do it. They wanted to work on hardware, which was what was the cool, creative, interesting work. And the computing work was just second class. That's changed, but in some ways, I'm thinking about, okay, where are we now? And to what degree are we kind of continuing this legacy? And how can we evolve or move beyond it? ANDREA: Yeah, you're absolutely right. And in some of the research for the book, one of the things I learned is a lot of people know the name, John von Neumann. He created the von Neumann architecture, that is the foundation of all the hardware that most of us use today. And the very first kind of general purpose digital computer, ENIAC, all...I think it was eight of the people who were programmers for that were women. That team was led by John von Neumann's wife, Klára, and you never hear about Klára. You have to go digging for that. And The Smithsonian actually just about 8, 10 years ago did a big anniversary and then realized none of those women were invited to the press conferences. They were not invited. And so there is kind of this...similar to generational wealth, it's the thing that gets passed down. Like, if you're in the rooms in the early days...there was a quote by John Backus, who created FORTRAN and the Backus–Naur principle, where he talked about programming in the 1950s. He has an essay, and he was like, yeah, I mean, an idea was anybody who claims it, and we never cited our sources. And so it was whoever had the biggest ego was the one who got credit. And everyone's like, great; you're a hero. And so I think that's kind of the beginning of it. And so if you weren't invited into the room, because in the 1950s, in addition to gender, there was legislation that prevented...we weren't even allowed to use the same bathrooms. You had White bathrooms and Black bathrooms. So you had very serious barriers for many different people getting into that room, and I think that gets to the idea of intersectionality as well. So the more barriers that you had, the harder it was going to be. And so then you get the stereotypes, and then you get the media who promotes the stereotypes. And so that is what happened to me. So I grew up in the '80s and '90s, and just every movie I watched, every TV show portrayed somebody who was, quote, "good" with computers in a very specific way. I didn't see myself in it. So I was like, oh, I'm not there. But then, when I talk to Scott, he's like, "Oh, I never saw that. I never saw the discrimination. I just saw this stuff." That's part of it is that if you were in that position where discrimination, or difficulties, or stereotypes had been invisible to you, the onus is on you to learn and to listen. If you are in a situation where you feel like you have been in the minority, the onus is on you to find ways to become more empowered. And a lot of times, that is setting boundaries. It's advocating for yourself. It's recognizing your self-worth. And those are all things that are really hard. And saying, hey, if we want to be sustainable, everyone needs to contribute. I'm happy to train everyone, but this is not going to work. And being able to frame it, too, in terms of value, like, why? Why is it a benefit for everyone building that empathy? And you're right, I mean, there are absolutely cultures where...who was it? I think it was Edward Deming. And he said, "A single person is powerless in the face of a bad system." And so if you're in a system that isn't going to work, recognizing that and can you move into a different system? Or can you change it from within? And those are all different questions that you've got to ask based on your own fortitude, your own interests, your own resources, your own situation. There is no easy question. But it's always work. And no matter who you are, it's always work. [laughs] STEPHANIE: Yeah, yeah. I joined as co-host of this podcast just a few months ago. And I had to do a lot of reflecting on what I wanted to get out of it and what my goals were. And that's why I'm really excited to have you on here and to be using this platform to talk about things that are important to me and things that I think more people should know about or think about. So before we wrap up, Andrea, do you have anything else you want to say? ANDREA: I want to reinforce that if you feel joy from mending, it's awesome. And there are communities like legacycode.rocks. We have MenderCon, and it's a celebration of software maintenance. So it can be really great. We have a virtual meetup every Wednesday. And there's a kind of a core group of people who come, and they're like, it's like therapy because there are a lot of people who are in your situation where it's like, I'm the only person on my team who cares about automated tests, and I have no idea like...and just having people who kind of share in that struggle can be really helpful, so finding your community. And then I think software maintenance is really, really critical and really important, and I think we see it. Like, we're seeing in the news every day in terms of these larger systems going down. Just recently, Southwest Airlines and all of these flights got canceled. The maintenance work is so, so valuable. If you feel like a mender and you feel like that fits your identity, just know that there is a lot of worth in the work that you are doing, an immense amount of worth in the work that you are doing, and to continue to advocate for that. If you are a maker, yes, there is absolutely worth in the work you're doing, but learn about menders. Learn how to work together. And if you are a leader of an organization, recognize that all of these different perspectives can work together. And, again, reframe the value. So I am so grateful that you framed the conversation this way. It's so important. I'm very, very grateful to hear from you and your point of view. And I hope that you continue to push the narrative like this because it's really important. STEPHANIE: Aww, thanks. And thank you so much for being on the podcast. ANDREA: Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Thanks for having me. STEPHANIE: Show notes for this episode can be found at bikeshed.fm. JOËL: This show has been produced and edited by Mandy Moore. STEPHANIE: If you enjoyed listening, one really easy way to support the show is to leave us a quick rating or even a review in iTunes. It really helps other folks find the show. JOËL: If you have any feedback for this or any of our other episodes, you can reach us @_bikeshed, or you can reach me @joelquen on Twitter. STEPHANIE: Or reach both of us at hosts@bikeshed.fm via email. JOËL: Thanks so much for listening to The Bike Shed, and we'll see you next week. ALL: Byeeeeeeeeee!!!!! ANNOUNCER: This podcast is brought to you by thoughtbot, your expert strategy, design, development, and product management partner. We bring digital products from idea to success and teach you how because we care. Learn more at thoughtbot.com.

Story Story!I sat down with Alim Kamara and spoke about what it feels like growing up between two cultures, his career and his childhood.

Why do we sew? Everyone's story is different and fascinating. We interview sewing stars & industry professionals, quilters & embroiderers, menders & makers to bring you inspiring stories that give you all the feels. Listen while you sew or on the go and learn about sewists from all walks of life. Get inspired to learn something new and create with needle and thread.

In this episode Matthew and I focus on the foundations of Pacifirecords and his work with the Menders and Aaron Sprinkle. --- Support this podcast: https://anchor.fm/rob-weiss0/support

This episode is also available as a blog post: http://afghannewswire.com/2022/01/15/vendors-and-shoe-menders-in-sedarat-square-kabul/

The gang conduct some ill considered espionage in the interest of figuring out why the Menders are in Wick Port. [Content Warning: S club 7, Rasmus, Greg?] Bonus Content: https://www.patreon.com/spoutlore Discord Community: https://discord.gg/6cAQxeQM2t

The RSB Show 8-20-21 - Israel infection surge, Pandemic of the vaccinated Disinformation dozen narrative, Patti Hidalgo Menders, Critical Race Theory

Are you interested in hearing a passionate Mom trying to keep CRT out of her school?  Do not get between this Mamma Bear and her cubs!  Listen as the President of The Louden County Republican Women's Club, Patti Hidalgo Menders stands against her corrupt school board as they attempt to make her community too much like the Cuba that her parents escaped from.  You will not want to miss this!

In this episode, we're talking to Daniel Charny, a creative director, curator and educator with an inquiring mind and an entrepreneurial streak. Alongside Dee Halligan, he is co-founder and director of From Now On, where he works with clients from Google to the Design Museum. Describing themselves as ‘part R&D Lab and part consultancy, small, connected and serious about finding better responses to our changing world,' their most recent initiative is the creative education think-and-do-tank FixEd.Daniel is also Professor of Design at Kingston University and guest lecturer on the Master in Design for Emergent Futures at IAAC, Barcelona.We discuss:- The mindset around fixing and the impact it has. - The importance of ‘applied creativity' in education. - Why young and older makers need to come together to create change.  - The differences between formal, informal and non-formal education and why all three are important. - His time spent working with  Zeev Aram and The Aram Gallery- Fixperts, an award-winning learning programme for applied creativity and social sustainability.… and more!Here are some highlights.  The connection between making and mending“I think they are completely connected, but there are different values sometimes behind them and different reasons for doing them. Menders have material intelligence, they have acquired skills. Making is, I think, completely integral to mending. I don't think it works the other way around. I think a lot of makers can mend, but it's not necessarily their driver. There are lots of tribes of makers, and some of them are interested in innovation. And so improving is more of their state of making. And yes, they are mending something, but not in order to mend it back to what it was. We then just think about it as a kind of access of care, and you think about conservation, you think about maintenance, you think about care in daily life and repair, and then hacking and then adapting and so on.”Waking people up to remember that we have making“It was kind of like, ‘Okay, let's open that cupboard and remember we have it.' We don't have to invent it, it's there, we just kind of forgot about it. Too many people forget about it. And Fixperts, Maker Library Network, they really are taking that notion with a social agenda together. So there was an area in ‘The Power of Making' that was very much about communities making together, so it wasn't so much DIY culture, it was ‘MIY' culture, and it was very much the early 3D printers. […] Or materials like Sugru are about fixing but also inventing and maybe doing repair for someone else, and there was this whole notion of the social of communities doing things for themselves and for others.”The importance of engaging with young people to create change“When you think about the challenges we're facing with the environment, it's not just about coming up with how to clean in the ocean or how to reduce carbon footprints, you need a major cultural shift to support young people to even learn to think like that.  We have to engage much earlier with younger people at the stage when they are thinking about what their values are, how they understand themselves and creativity. It becomes a different kind of premise for me than teaching design.  It's not just the sense and the mindset, it's actually enabling. The idea is not enough, they also have to have the skills. It's the imagination and the skills together in order to achieve these shifts.”The book Katie mentions towards the end of the episode, from which she has taken the term ‘stubborn optimism' is The Future We Choose by Christiana Figueres and Tom Rivett-Carnac, which you can buy here. (This is an affiliate link and both Katie and a bricks and mortar bookshop will get a small cut if you purchase this way.)Connect with Daniel Charny here.Follow Daniel on Twitter here.This episode is dedicated to Zeev Aram: https://www.dezeen.com/2021/03/22/zeev-aram-obituary/About Katie TreggidenKatie Treggiden is a purpose-driven journalist, author, podcaster and keynote speaker championing a circular approach to design – because Planet Earth needs better stories. With 20 years' experience in the creative industries, she regularly contributes to publications such as The Guardian, Crafts Magazine, Design Milk and Monocle24. Following research during her recent Masters at the University of Oxford, she is currently exploring the question ‘can craft save the world?' through an emerging body of work that includes her fifth book, Wasted: When Trash Becomes Treasure (Ludion, 2020), and this podcast. You can find Katie on Instagram @katietreggiden.1, sign up for her e-newsletter here and if you're a designer-maker interested in becoming more sustainable, sign up for her free Facebook Group here. If you'd like to support more fantastic content like this, you can buy Katie a ‘virtual coffee' here in exchange for behind the scenes content and a shout-out in Season Three. 

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Makers of memories! Menders of misfortunes. Movers of mountains.

Since I've been a little bit light on the content lately, and because this stuff cut from our conversation is so good, I decided to release this bonus content (usually only available on patreon) as a follow up to the last new episode! This also helps put some things from that episode into context. I don't edit this stuff as heavily as I do the main content, so you get more pregnant pauses, more "likes", "uhs", and "you knows", and what not, but that means you also get the actual conversation and not what I've edited it into! If you're not already a supporter, there is plenty more of this from my other episodes, so I do appreciate those of you who check it out (and especially those of you who already support! You make this all so much easier! New episode later this week!https://www.patreon.com/gabbagabbahuhSongs for GGHT39.5:Sticky Bandits - Cecil JonesSupport the show (https://www.patreon.com/gabbagabbahuh)

This week, I sat down with Robbie Thornton of Witch Motel, The Menders, and Evergone, for over four hours, to talk about his early days of putting together shows while still in high school, a brush with MTV stardom, a lost sense of smell, quitting music at an early age, and then finding that spark again through a broader spectrum of music. We talk about his bands, past and present, and hit so many tangents that the patreon will basically get a full bonus episode! (Give me a couple of days, but seriously, you're not gonna want to miss this one!)https://www.facebook.com/WitchMotel/https://witchmotel.bandcamp.com/releaseshttps://www.facebook.com/evergonethebandhttps://evergonetheband.bandcamp.com/https://www.facebook.com/themendersnchttps://themenders.bandcamp.com/https://www.gabbagabbahuh.com/https://linktr.ee/gabbagabbahuhSongs for GGHT39: Witch Motel - BlondemowerFinal Start - Goodbye ForeverCulprit Strain - CommitThe Sticky Bandits - Beginning of an EvolutionWitch Motel - America The Menders - Shiny Lil' DevilEvergone - AutumnBest Before Yesterday - ConversationsOld Scratch - Black Skies (Demo)The Sticky Bandits - Foosball Crossroads (Live)Support the show (https://www.patreon.com/gabbagabbahuh)

Today I am here to let you know that I am going to be taking a two week break in order to do a bit of planning. Never fear, I do have a book recommendation and pairing for you and will have one for next week also. I wanted to take this opportunity to ask you, the Literary Elixirs community, what you have enjoyed most over these last 18 episodes? What would you like to hear more of? Feel free to comment on the Literary Elixirs facebook, twitter or instagram posts or msg me with any of your thoughts, questions or suggestions. So, my recommendation for you today is The Interrogation of Ashala Wolf by Ambelin Kwaymullina, book one in The Tribe series. Three hundred years into the future our world is destroyed by an environmental crisis called The Reckoning. During The Reckoning the tectonic plates shifted resulting in one large landmass which emerged from the flood waters. This landmass is divided into cities and is heavily governed to keep The Balance in order. People start being born with unusual abilities called Firestarters, Menders, Sleepwalkers and many more. The new government calls them Illegals and sees them as a threat. Ashala and some fellow illegals have taken refuge in the Firstwood where they form a Tribe and are hidden and free and can develop their abilities and try to save others. But when she is betrayed by a friend and captured by an enemy, Ashala is forced to succumb to a machine that will pull secrets from her mind. Will the Tribe survive the interrogation of Ashala Wolf? This is a typical dystopian novel … at first … but there is a twist and suddenly you are on a very different journey than what you thought. I also love love love how the author weaves in Dreamtime stories seamlessly and creates a wonderful fully-realised world. Though it is the first in a series, the novel reads like a stand-alone, tying up enough loose ends to satisfy, while still leaving you wanting more. This is one of the few series I have ever read where each book is as good as the rest! And they are not just good, they are pretty great actually! So, what do i suggest you pair with this book? Well, for this original, unpredictable #OwnVoices story I suggest something a little bit different. Have you ever heard of a Reunion Cocktail This is a layered cocktail with the bottom layer grenadine, aperol, gin and lemon myrtle syrup, the middle layer grapefruit juice and then Australian malbec is floated on top. I'd use a Sunburnt Country Larrikin Bush Tucker Gin from Ballarat which includes a number of Australian botanicals which - with the Aussie malbec and lemon myrtle - link us back to the rich cultural references in this book, the aperol and grapefruit give a bitterness, a sharpness and a punch - this is a bit of a thriller so that works! - this is then tempered somewhat by the grenadine which is tartly sweet and i think that references the love storyline which develops throughout this story. There may also be a clue in the name of the cocktail about the twist in the book … but I won't say anything more! Enjoy!

Legacy is something that you leave behind with the expectation that you are paving a path for the success of others. So why do we fear the word ‘legacy’ when referring to code? Jim Headley sits down with Andrea Goulet of Corgibytes who explains that legacy code is not always something to fear, but something that can be built upon and improved. View on Medium

Robby speaks with M. Scott Ford, CTO and Chief Code Whisperer at Corgibytes and co-host of the Legacy Code Rocks podcast. They discuss the difference between Makers and Menders, how to prioritize a technical debt backlog, and how to provide feedback to other developers.Helpful LinksM. Scott Ford on TwitterCorgibytesLegacy Code Rocks[Book] Lehman’s Laws of Software Evolution and the Staged-Model[Book] Radical CandorSubscribe to Maintainable on:Apple PodcastsOvercastSpotifyOr search "Maintainable" wherever you stream your podcasts.

I got to sit down with two amazing young guns in the world of finance and money Jen Lau& Paige Daida of the company Money Menders. Get your money game tight and learn form these young minds and how Money Menders can help you and your family get you money game tighten up! --- This episode is sponsored by · Anchor: The easiest way to make a podcast. https://anchor.fm/app --- Send in a voice message: https://anchor.fm/guyvaughtgmailcom/message Support this podcast: https://anchor.fm/guyvaughtgmailcom/support

Today we go back to where we started and we reprise the first ever episode of Legacy Code Rocks. Andrea and Scott discuss the idea of Makers (the developers who like to build things) and Menders (developers who like to fix things). We also define and explain the mission of this podcast. A great reminder for our old listeners and a perfect opportunity to catch-up for the new ones.

“Twenty years of counseling individuals, families and couples has allowed us to see relationships from many different aspects. The three pronged approach (Christian Based,Cognitive Behavior Therapy & Transparency) we use has been successful in the healing process.”“We use these gifts to teach individuals, couples and families through practical life examples.”Derrick and Sonya have conducted seminars, retreats and sermons together for 20 years, throughout the U.S., St. Marteen, Barbados, Bermuda and Zambia. They present to youth, singles, couples and parents. Their clinical knowledge, expertise in relationships, personal experiences and spiritual awareness allows them the ability to connect with the listener. You will leave with a life-changing experience.Facebook | https://www.facebook.com/themarriagemenders/Twitter | https://twitter.com/MarriageMendersInstagram | https://www.instagram.com/themarriagemenders/YouTube | https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCf2R0EitU9OxBB4hlEUFekg/videos?view_as=subscriberWebsite | https://www.marriagemenders.orgEmail | themarriagemenders@gmail.com --- This episode is sponsored by · Anchor: The easiest way to make a podcast. https://anchor.fm/app --- Send in a voice message: https://anchor.fm/tradesecrets/message Support this podcast: https://anchor.fm/tradesecrets/support

The gang takes yet another job from the Menders, and also takes way too long to leave a mall. [Content Warning: Lunchables, Flirtatious Interactions, Bronchitis]

Part 2 of Repair Cafe “The Repair Café was initiated by Martine Postma (https://www.linkedin.com/in/martinepostma) . Since 2007, she has been striving for sustainability at a local level in many ways. Martine organised the very first Repair Café in Amsterdam, on October 18, 2009. It was a great success.   PART 2 OF THIS PODCAST, Repair Cafe Jackie Carter Jackie Carter is the Moscow Public Library’s Repair Cafe coordinator. Right to Repair Movement “The Right to Repair movement is the idea that manufacturers have this policy where if something goes wrong with an item you purchase you have to take the item to them for repairs.  That can be a big cost to you.  You are not allowed to fix it.” “If you attempt to fix it yourself it voids the warranty.  But people are saying wait a minute.  I bought this.  I own this.  I should be able to do what I want with it.  I should be able to choose whom I want to repair it.” “The event is also interactive in the sense of watch me how I do this and then you try it.” “People come away with confidence to try things on their own.” Planned Obsolescence “There’s a concept most people aren’t familiar with because we are programmed to see things as disposable.  Planned obsolescence.  When something is manufactured it’s designed to fail in a couple of years so the consumer is forced to replace it.  We take it for granted.  That’s how it is.  We accept it.  But consumers should not be forced to replace something due to planned obsolescence.” The Event Dale “I brought in a paper shredder that runs in reverse but wont’ run forward.  This kind gentleman Cory is fixing it for me. My goal is not to have to replace it and now I don’t have to.” Tammy “I brought in an older glass dish repair.  This dish is from my grandmother and recently the dish on the dish was beheaded.  They fixed it here.  I am so happy. I also brought in my jacket with a  broken zipper.  I thought the whole zippier would need to be replaced.  But they fixed the pull!  It was as simple as that.” Cory I’m a mechanic.  I spent most of my career working on cars.  Today I a am a motorcycle mechanic.  I always loved to tear things apart. I heard about this and I wanted to tear other peoples stuff apart and fix it!  People are real happy.  I’m having fun.  I’m pro reusing of things.  I don’t want things to be thrown away when something can be easily fixed.  Keep things out of the landfill.” Cory Lemper, Repair Cafe Volunteer spartanindustries17@gmail.com Welding, fabrication, machining and repairs. Jennifer I have one piece of jewelry which is lovely and I wore it a lot.  The bottom came apart and it’s been sitting in my jewelry box for three years.  I got excited when this was advertised.  Well look.  It is fixed.  It’s so wonderful.   My necklace is going to have a second life.  That’s exciting.” Rochelle, Repair Cafe Clothing and Textiles Volunteer (When I walked up to Rochelle she was teaching mending skills to a patron.) “I think it’s important to share things with people and show them how to fix their things.” “Repair Cafe is important in terms of community and people teaching and people learning.”   Don’t Throw It Away  “It’s deeply unsustainable for the earth for us to continue throwing things away when they don’t need to be thrown away.  There are alternatives to that.” “It’s also important for sustainability for honoring the workers who created these clothes whether it be in Bangladesh, Nepal or wherever.  They created clothing and textiles under unsafe working conditions.  What is it like for those people who are manufacturing our clothes?” “I think being responsible stewards of the materials once we have them is honoring them.” “Menders are having this conversation around the world.  But people might not have thought about this before.” “Break your throw away...

CEO and Co-Founder Andrea Goulet of the tech-debt fixing company, https://corgibytes.com stops by the People Stack to talk about building a community of Menders (https://www.legacycode.rocks/), knowing when and when your org needs Menders vs Makers, the Org Smells that show dysfunction in your org, how Conway's law impacts your tech debt and more. The book Andrea refers to in this episode is "The Five Dysfunctions of a Team: A Leadership Fable" by Patrick M. Lencioni. Here is an Amazon link to it: https://www.amazon.com/Five-Dysfunctions-Team-Leadership-Lencioni-ebook/dp/B006960LQW Intro music is "I'm Going for a Coffee" (http://freemusicarchive.org/music/Lee_Rosevere/Music_For_Podcasts_3/02_Im_Going_for_a_Coffee) by Lee Rosevere, which is licensed under CC BY 4.0 (https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/4.0/) Special Guest: Andrea Goulet.

This week, Dr. Patrick teaches from the ideas of Shariff Abdullah and his work for societal transformation. There are three stories that are alive on the planet. The first story is the Keeper Society, who live in harmony with all of life. They are the indigenous people on the planet. The second story is the Breaker Society. These are the ones "creating a world that is best for me". They predict and control. They represent separation. The third story is the Mender Society, who create a world that works for everyone. They embody the unitive consciousness, the idea of One Life, One Presence, and One Power. Keepers say, "Earth is Abundant." Breakers say, "There is never enough." Menders say, "Abundance needs our help."

Like Christ, We are to be relationship menders.

Episode 3 we focus on the band The Menders. Thanks Jesse, Wes, Johnny, and Garin for coming and getting drunk and talking about the band. Instagram; @themendersnc Facebook: The Menders Subscribe for weekly episodes! Check out our online store at WWW.UNLOVEDSONSCOMPANY.COM Instagram: @pftbadseeds @unlovedsonscompany Hosted by: @scottietheplug --- This episode is sponsored by · Anchor: The easiest way to make a podcast. https://anchor.fm/app --- Send in a voice message: https://anchor.fm/badseedpodcast/message Support this podcast: https://anchor.fm/badseedpodcast/support

Jim talks with Andrea Goulet and M. Scott Ford from Corgibytes -- specialists in software remodeling.  This is a continuing conversation on technical debt, the albatross around the neck of many companies.   Our conversation focuses on Makers vs. Menders, so come have a listen.

This week we follow up on building Apple Watch apps to aid seniors in trouble, Google Home coming to Canada and configuring Amazon Echo to work in Canada. Jaime tells us about the latest digital assistant from Japan. Tim talks about working with HomeKit, Siri and using Homebridge. We close off the follow up with parking your Tesla with Alexa and Uber's self driving car program ends. We discuss the Octoverse report on popular language repositories on Github. App Transport Security comes into full effect on January 1, 2017 and we discuss how Apple will be inspecting apps for compliance. Finally we discuss Makers vs Menders. Picks: Super Mario Run, Silicon Valley iOS Developers’ Meetup and Auto-include Open-Source Acknowledgements with CocoaPods.

Andrea Goulet and Scott Ford from Corgibytes kick off the first episode of the Legacy Code Rocks podcast. In this episode, they discuss the idea of Makers (the developers who like to build things) and Menders (devs who like to fix things). 

The future of historic houses is a central question to the field today. This session examines the Kykuit Forum’s findings on alternative uses for historic properties by presenting viable options to the house museum. Participants will learn the process that three organizations followed to preserve their properties and serve the needs of their community. Chair: Kenneth C. Turino, Exhibition Manager, Historic New England Presenters: Valerie Cunningham, Director, Portsmouth Black History Trail Lynne Spencer, President, Menders, Torrey, and Spencer, Inc. Architecture and Preservation. Download at: http://resource.aaslh.org/view/choosing-a-new-path-alternative-uses-for-historic-site/

Today I talk with Andrea Goulet about software "makers and menders." Andrea is the CEO of CorgiBytes. Listen in if you are interested in refactoring and green field projects, and the difference between the two! Today's episode is sponsored by Digital Ocean! Go to https://digitalocean.com to get started on cloud hosting. Use the promo code DEVELOPERTEA at the checkout after you create your account to get a $10 credit!

Kenny Roby talks about getting 6 String Drag back together after 15 years, his inspiration from Doug Sahm, and plays tracks from the new album. Also on this episode, rapturous soul from JJ Grey & Mofro, traditional bluegrass from Robert Earl Keen, poignant love song from James McMurtry, new Latin-pop from The Mavericks, blues from Steve Earle & the Dukes, a rare Lead Belly recording, deep twang from Jim Lauderdale, and alt-country from The Menders. "Ep232 6 String Drag gets their Roots Rock ‘N’ Roll groove back" originated from Americana Music Show.

Lachlan Bryan plays tracks from Black Coffee and talks about Australia’s tradition of dark story telling and stepping into small town life. Also on this episode, alt-country from American Aquarium, an american songbook classic from Bob Dylan, newgrass from the Black Lillies, bluegrass duet from Robert Earl Keen and Lyle Lovett, ragtime jazz from the Bumper Jacksons, blues form Steve Earle and the Dukes, lonesome road music from HT Heartache, country gothic rock from The Menders, and southern rock from the Plott Hounds. "Ep231 Lachlan Bryan takes it hot as hell and black as pitch" originated from Americana Music Show.

Stop 1 Curator Eliza Rathbone discusses the differences and variations in The Road Menders and The Large Plane Trees.

Vincent van Gogh, The Road Menders, 1889 Acquired 1949 Oil on canvas

In this episode, Mark sits down with Seth Martin and the Menders for a few songs, a few laughs, and a conversation about folk music, prophets, and revolution.Seth is a folk singer who brings together the deep spirit of American folk, anarchist thought (in the vein of Ammon Hennacy), a love for creation, and Quaker spirituality. He has travelled all over the country (when his car is working) to share his music (often on the fringe). He's also spent time in Palestine with the Christian Peacemaker Teams. When he isn't on the road, he lives in the Portland area.