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The Modern Therapist's Survival Guide with Curt Widhalm and Katie Vernoy
When Laws and Ethics Conflict: Civil Disobedience, Social Justice, and Our Role as Therapists Curt and Katie chat about what happens when legal requirements clash with ethical responsibilities—and how therapists can stay grounded in their values while navigating complex decisions. When you find yourself in a situation where the law seems to contradict your ethics, or even violate your clients' basic human rights, what do you do? In this deep-dive episode, we explore the tension between law and ethics and the moral courage required to practice in alignment with your values. From post-9/11 changes in APA's ethics code to current issues like gender-affirming care restrictions, we explore real-world implications and guide you through a framework for ethical decision-making in the face of legal and systemic challenges. This is a continuing education podcourse. Transcripts for this episode will be available at mtsgpodcast.com! In this podcast episode we talk about laws, ethics, and the difficult decisions therapists face in practice Executive orders and nationwide proposed legislative bills that affect mental health have left therapists wondering, “Will my ethics protect me?” This episode and podcourse explores the interplay between laws and ethics, how professional organizations guide therapists when laws and ethics collide and gives a framework for how therapists should proceed. Participants will learn how to identify potential conflicts, understand their legal and ethical obligations, and develop effective decision-making processes. Topics explored will include risk management strategies, consultation best practices, and documentation considerations in conflictual situations. How do Modern Therapists navigate Ethics vs. Law in our practices? · Where clinical ethics and legal obligations collide · How our ethical codes approach this conflict (APA, ACA, NASW, CAMFT) · The importance of understanding your responsibilities beyond compliance Civil Disobedience as Therapists out in the world and in our offices · Philosophical roots: Antigone, Nuremberg, and post-9/11 ethics reform · When following the law may cause harm to clients or communities · How to protect your license while still honoring human rights Real-Life Legal versus Ethical Dilemmas for Modern Therapists · What to do when reporting requirements might increase harm · How to support trans and gender-diverse clients in states with discriminatory laws · Navigating confidentiality, documentation, and advocacy A Therapist's Decision-Making Process for Civil Disobedience From Knapp, S., Gottlieb, M., Berman, J., & Handelsman, M. M. (2007). When laws and ethics collide: What should psychologists do? · Seek consultation to understand your legal requirements (know what the law is actually asking you to do, even if that means taking the time to consult with an attorney) · Clearly understand your ethical obligations (read the language of the ethics code and consult with trusted colleagues) · Consider alternatives that allow following the law while upholding your values · Contemplate violating the law only if no viable alternatives exist, and if so, limit disobedience to the minimum necessary to fulfill the higher goal Receive Continuing Education for this Episode of the Modern Therapist's Survival Guide Continuing Education Approvals: Continuing Education Information including grievance and refund policies. Stay in Touch with Curt, Katie, and the whole Therapy Reimagined #TherapyMovement: Our Linktree: https://linktr.ee/therapyreimagined Modern Therapist's Survival Guide Creative Credits: Voice Over by DW McCann https://www.facebook.com/McCannDW/ Music by Crystal Grooms Mangano https://groomsymusic.com/
Leslie is joined by Dr. Anthony Estreet, PhD, MBA, LCSW-C, CEO of the National Association of Social Workers (NASW).The NASW is the largest membership organization of professional social workers in the world. NASW works to enhance the professional growth and development of its members, to create and maintain professional standards for social workers, and to advance sound social policies. The pair discusses Dr. Estreet's op-ed for Salon, titled, "Trump's Executive Orders Are Exacerbating the Country's Mental Health Crisis." (link here: https://www.salon.com/2025/03/12/executive-orders-are-exacerbating-the-countrys-mental-health/) Dr. Estreet earned a bachelor's in science in psychology from Bowie State University, an MSW at Virginia Commonwealth University, a doctorate in social work at Morgan State University, and an MBA at the University Maryland-College Park. He has been a professor and chair of the Master of Social Work Program at Morgan State University since 2013. Estreet is also founder and chief executive officer of Next Step Treatment Center in Baltimore, which provides substance use treatment and mental health services. The website for the NASW is SocialWorkers.org and you can follow them on BlueSky, where their handle is @naswsocialworkers.bsky.social.
Leslie is joined by Dr. Anthony Estreet, PhD, MBA, LCSW-C, CEO of the National Association of Social Workers (NASW).The NASW is the largest membership organization of professional social workers in the world. NASW works to enhance the professional growth and development of its members, to create and maintain professional standards for social workers, and to advance sound social policies. The pair discusses Dr. Estreet's op-ed for Salon, titled, "Trump's Executive Orders Are Exacerbating the Country's Mental Health Crisis." (link here: https://www.salon.com/2025/03/12/executive-orders-are-exacerbating-the-countrys-mental-health/) Dr. Estreet earned a bachelor's in science in psychology from Bowie State University, an MSW at Virginia Commonwealth University, a doctorate in social work at Morgan State University, and an MBA at the University Maryland-College Park. He has been a professor and chair of the Master of Social Work Program at Morgan State University since 2013. Estreet is also founder and chief executive officer of Next Step Treatment Center in Baltimore, which provides substance use treatment and mental health services. The website for the NASW is SocialWorkers.org and you can follow them on BlueSky, where their handle is @naswsocialworkers.bsky.social.
Creating online programs can feel like a dream come true—scaling your impact, reaching more people, and building a thriving business. But let's face it: as therapists, we face unique challenges that most business coaches can't help us navigate. Enter the minefield of dual relationships.If you've ever wondered how to expand your reach ethically and legally while keeping boundaries rock solid, this episode is for you!Today, I'm breaking down the most important strategies to help you ethically manage dual relationships when creating online programs. We'll cover why dual relationships matter, the key ethical and legal challenges to look out for, and the practical tools you need to protect yourself and your clients.This isn't just about compliance—it's about creating programs that align with your values and ensure everyone involved feels safe, respected, and supported.In this episode, we discuss:What dual relationships are and why licensing boards like APA, AHPRA, and NASW take them so seriously.The risks of blurred boundaries, power dynamics, and confidentiality breaches in online programs—and how to address them.The legal steps every therapist should take when running online programs, including disclaimers, contracts, and setting up separate business entities.My top practical tips to screen participants, create clear agreements, and maintain professional boundaries in group settings.Rate, Review, & Follow on Apple PodcastsIf this episode helped you feel more confident about managing dual relationships in your business, I'd love for you to rate and review the show! It's the best way to support the podcast and help other therapists learn to build ethical, scalable online programs.Just head to Apple Podcasts, scroll to the bottom, tap to rate with five stars, and select “Write a Review.” Be sure to let me know what you loved most about this episode!And if you haven't already, hit the follow button. Bonus episodes and practical tips are coming your way, and I don't want you to miss out!Links Mentioned in This Episode:Join the Incubator Waitlist: Ready to create your ethical and scalable online program? Doors open soon—get on the waitlist!Follow me on Instagram dr.hayleykelly
Wendy Cervantes is the Director of Immigration and Immigrant Families at the Center for Law and Social Policy. In this episode, she and Mel Wilson, NASW's Senior Policy Advisor focusing on social justice issues, discuss what mass deportation would look like under a potential Trump Administration and why such policies are harmful to children and families.
Vote ER and NASW on mobilizing for the extremely important 2024 presidential and down ballot elections. It goes without saying that the upcoming election is one of the most important elections in terms of preserving America's democracy since the Civil War. Hopefully, this podcast will be able to share some important information about what is at stake for social workers, and more importantly, what is at stake for the individuals and families that you serve.
"Welcome to Revolutionary Hoodrat with Kim Young of Dope Black Social Worker®. In this week's episode, Kim discusses Lee Daniels' "The Deliverance", her Adam Walsh theory, the calls to investigate the NASW, and the importance of putting gravy on your grits.
In this NASW podcast episode of Social Work Talks we examine why it's Never Too Late to enter the field of therapy. Our host NASW member Elisabeth Joy LaMotte, LICSW chats with chef Karey Swartwout, and political organizer and journalist Dr. Brooke Stroud, now a clinical psychologist, and author Daniel Duane (who today is featured in an article in The New York Times). Today, each discusses why they left past careers to enter the profession of therapy. Listen as they discuss why they leapt, later in life, to a field inhabited by many social workers.
We invite you to watch or hear this in-depth interview with the new CEO of the National Association of Social Workers (NASW), Dr. Anthony Estreet. He holds his LCSW Credentials as well as an MBA. Dr. Estreet is a Bowie State University graduate, where he earned a bachelor's in science in psychology. He then moved on to Virginia Commonwealth University and Morgan State University, where he earned an MSW in social work and a doctorate in social work, respectively. He became a part of the MSU family in 2013. When he isn't busy training up the next generation of social workers, Dr. Estreet can be seen working with Next Step Treatment Center, an organization that offers solutions and resources for both substance use and improved mental health. He is a long-time member of the Maryland Chapter of NASW, where he has served as president. He also helps improve social work as a member of the Council on Social Work Education. During his time at Morgan, Estreet received roughly $6 million earmarked specifically as “funding for social work workforce development, research, and training. He also led the development and expansion of the first MSW program in the United States, and at a historically Black college or university, to have an area of specialized practice focused on addressing substance use disorders,” according to information released by NASW. At the top of his list of goals are his plans to grow the organization's membership, while also “addressing social justice issues, including racial equity and reproductive rights.” NASW reports that Estreet plans to “work to strengthen the social work workforce by expanding efforts to increase compensation for social workers.” Estreet said he is “honored and humbled to be the next CEO of NASW.” “I have been a member of this great organization since 2007,” he said in a statement. “As a former member of the NASW Board, I know NASW is committed to supporting social workers and the communities they serve. This organization has done phenomenal work especially in the past three years, including supporting social workers in the delivery of mental health services during the pandemic and addressing systemic racism. However, we have much more work to do, and I stand ready to work collaboratively to support our great profession.” #NASW #NASWNYS #NASWNYC #Adelphiuniversity#MorganStateUniversity #adelphi #BowieStateUniversity #VirginiaCommonwealth #CSWE #IFSW #NASWFoundation #Kelsunnontheair #NSWM #blackmensmentalhealthconference #socialwork #socialworkers #stonybrookuniversity #stonybrookuniversityschoolofsocialwelfare #brooklyncollege #suffolkcommunitycollege #molloyuniversity #albanystateuniversity #saintjosephsuniversity
Kelsunn Communications Invites you to listen to this trailer announcing our exclusive interview with Dr. Anthony Estreet, LCSW-C. Dr. Anthony Estreet is the new CEO of the National Association of Social Workers (NASW) as of January 2023. He is a highly esteemed leader in the field of social work and is known as a visionary leader. The “Kelsunn-on-the-Air” Social Work Podcast is honored to bring you this prestigious podcast segment. Please make sure to tune in to find out more info about where you can watch and listen to the entire episode!! Thank you.
Professor Warren Graham is an Associate Clinical Professor and Assistant Dean for Practicum Education at Stony Brook University School of Social Work. He is also the President-Elect of the National Association of Social Workers-New York State (NASW-NYS) Chapter Board of Directors. In this conversation, Professor Graham speaks about his extensive work in academia and clinical practice, hi social justice work and what it is like to be a person of color in the spaces that he travels.
Gun violence remains a serious public health issue in the United States. About 46,000 Americans died due to gun violence in 2023, with half using guns to die by suicide. The National Association of Social Workers (NASW) is a partner with Brady, a campaign to end our nation's gun violence epidemic. In this episode of NASW's Social Work Talks podcast, NASW Policy Advisor Mel Wilson talks to Kelly Sampson, senior counsel and director of Racial Justice at Brady, and Colleen Creighton, senior director of End Family Fire at Brady, to get the latest news on the organization's campaign.
Jonathan B. Singer, Ph.D., LCSW is Professor at Loyola University Chicago's School of Social Work, Past-President of the American Association of Suicidology and coauthor of two editions of the best-selling text, Suicide in Schools: A Practitioner's Guide to Multi-level Prevention, Assessment, Intervention, and Postvention. He is a two-time winner of the National Association of Social Workers Media Award (2012 and 2016). He was a 2014 Visiting Scholar at Fordham University, the 2017 Lucille N. Austin Scholar at Columbia University, and the 2018 Distinguished Lecturer at Weber State University. In 2023, he was inducted as an NASW "Social Work Pioneer" for introducing podcasting to social work. Dr. Singer is a well-regarded international speaker who has given over a thousand continuing education workshops, keynote addresses, and presentations on youth suicide, ethics, technology, adolescent development and attachment-based family therapy in the USA, Latin America, Asia, and Europe. He is an NASW Expert, Healio Psychiatry Peer Perspective Board member, and has served on several national youth advisory boards including Sandy Hook Promise, JED Foundation, Suicide Prevention Resource Center, and the National Suicide Prevention (988 Suicide & Crisis) Lifeline. He is the author of over 90 publications and his research has been featured in national and international media outlets like NPR, BBC, Fox, Time Magazine, and The Guardian. His research collaborations have received private and public funding through the American Foundation for Suicide Prevention, National Institute of Mental Health, and other organizations. His co-authored article with Arielle Sheftall and John Ackerman about the news media's reporting on the suicide deaths of Kate Spade and Anthony Bourdain won the prestigious 2019 SDX prize for research on journalism. A pioneer in the integration of technology and social work, Dr. Singer is a founding member of the online suicide prevention social media community #SPSM, past-Treasurer for the international human services Information Technology association (http://husita.org/), co-lead for the Social Work Grand Challenge initiative "Harness Technology for Social Good"(https://grandchallengesforsocialwork.org/harness-technology-for-social-good/), and member of the Council on Social Work Education's Technology Advisory Group. Dr. Singer is the founder and host of the award-winning Social Work Podcast (www.socialworkpodcast.com). Founded in January 2007, the Social Work Podcast is the first podcast by and for social workers, with over 50,000 followers on social media, listeners in 208 countries and territories, and over 8 million downloads. He lives in Evanston, IL with his wife and three children and can be found on X/Twitter as @socworkpodcast and Facebook at facebook.com/swpodcast.
White Ribbon VA is a national call to action to eliminate sexual harassment, sexual assault, and domestic violence across the Department of Veterans Affairs by promoting a positive change in culture so that the actions outlined in the pledge become the organizational norm. NASW and other mental health organizations have partnered with White Ribbon. In this episode we talk about the importance of White Ribbon VA with Dr. Bridget Truman, associate director of the Prevention and Management of Disruptive Behavior at the Veterans Central Office, Office of Mental Health and Suicide Prevention in Asheville, NC; Doctor Angela Lamson is a professor at East Carolina University and a representative of the American Association for Marriage and Family Therapy; and Doctor Carole Warshaw, MD, director of the National Center on Domestic Violence, Trauma and Mental Health and a representative of the American Psychiatric Association.
Many thanks to Mr. Scott Passeser, Producer & Host of “Radio Jobline”. The Show airs every Saturday from 2 to 3 PM on LI News 103.9, FM. Scott continually offers his platform to the Social Work profession!!! He is keenly aware of the vital role Social Workers play in society and never hesitates to help spread the word!!! I also appreciate him having me back on the show for a fourth time!! The main topics of this interview that Scott and I discuss center around Social Work salaries, Social Worker satisfaction in the profession, and why it's important to improve both. We also talk about the dire need for well-trained, well-paid, motivated Social Workers. Earlier this year The NY State Chapter of NASW released a study on the current state of the Social Work profession here in NY. The report was authored by Ms. Olivia Knox, NASW-NYS Chapter Policy Coordinator. Some of her report's information is alluded to in this interview. Also, the National Association of Social Workers had an independent agency (IPSOS) conduct a public opinion satisfaction survey. The results pointed to the fact that the general public has an overall favorable view of the profession. It also pointed out that many in the general public do not know all the roles Social Workers play. Some of that. Make sure to listen to this engaging and informative interview in it's entirety!!
FEATURED GUESTS: Maureen Clancy is a licensed therapist and trauma expert for over 20 years helping women go through enormous life changes who've also experienced childhood trauma. She's the creator of the Gate Passages Framework, a structured, bottom-up approach to healing trauma and going through major life changes. She's certified in EMDR and trained in Sensorimotor Psychotherapy (certification in progress), Internal Family Systems, and AEDP. She combines therapy with Reiki, Tarot, and flower essences. She's a certified NASW clinical supervisor for social workers seeking advanced clinical certification and runs supervision groups for newer therapists looking to gain skills in treating trauma. She's presented on trauma and self-care at Rutgers University Graduate School of Social Work and Limerick Institute of Technology School of Social Care (County Clare, Ireland). She's a certified yoga teacher (200-hour), 20-year meditator, self-taught artist and potter. She is based in the NY metro area. She loves to garden, play pickleball, and feed people.LISTEN & LEARN: Learn more about two alternative healing methods: Bauch Flower Remedies and Rekki Develop a better understanding of the origins of Rekki How you can use Rekki to self regulate How these methods can support clients in their healing RESOURCES MENTIONED ON THE SHOW: Connect and learn more about Maureen Clancy at maureen-clancy.com email Maureen Clancy at media@maureen-clancy.com Check out Maureen Clancy's FREE Trauma Class Why You Can't DIY Healing from Trauma Class: Ready to finally get to the root of healing from trauma? Inside the class, you'll learn: How your automatic survival responses keep you from thinking clearly while you're experiencing trauma. Why these automatic survival responses get stuck in your body and keep showing up … even years later. Why regular talk therapy can't help with this. How DIY and doing it yourself will only get you so far. Check out more about Bauch Flower Remedies here Imagine 2024 being THE YEAR YOU Build the Creative Arts Practice of Your Dreams! Receive all the information and support you need to confidently grow on your journey to becoming the owner of a successful therapist owned business. -Sign up for the 2024 Mastermind Group with Reina Lombardi here --- Support this podcast: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/reina-lombardi5/support
In this episode we are talking with Olivia Know, MSW who is the Policy Coordinator for NASW-NYS and was the lead person for the "NASW-NYS 2022 Social Work Salary Analysis Report". We are talking about some of the key findings, what was surprising in the research and we answer "where do we go from here?". Links from the episode: Findings From Three Years of Surveys of New Social Workers: https://www.socialworkers.org/LinkClick.aspx?fileticket=1_j2EXVNspY%3D&portalid=0 Crisis in Care: High stress, low pay impact on New York State Employed Social Workers: https://www.socialworkers.org/LinkClick.aspx?fileticket=1_j2EXVNspY%3D&portalid=0 NASW-NYS 2022 Social Work Salary Analysis Report: https://www.dropbox.com/s/nxs0tq6g2odtw4o/NASW-NYS%202022%20Social%20Work%20Salary%20Analysis%20Report.pdf?dl=0 In 2022, Olivia earned a Masters in social work with a specialization in community, policy, and political social action. While Olivia was completing her MSW, she served as the NASW-NYS Chapter's policy assistant. In this position, Olivia coordinated the Chapter's first in-person advocacy day, assists with developing the Chapter's policy priorities and provides information to members on New York state policy relevant to the social work profession. Olivia became the Policy Coordinator at NASW-NYS in March 2023. ____________________________________ Tap Here to Subscribe to the Social Workers, Rise! Email Resource List Tap Here to shop career courses for Social Workers. ____________________________________ Thank you to our SPONSORS RISE Directory - A national directory of Clinical Supervisors who are looking to help the next generation of Clinical Social Workers GROW. Therapist Development Center (TDC) Homepage TDC Continuing Education Courses On The Edge of Life: An Introduction to Treating Suicidality Use the code SWRISE10 at checkout to receive 10% off --- Send in a voice message: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/socialwork/message Support this podcast: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/socialwork/support
Join our mail list here for exclusive content here: https://abty.co.uk/contact Sign up for our coaching here: https://abty.co.uk/coaching On episode 238 I welcome Bizzie Gold to the show. Bizzie is regarded as one of the top personal development and wellness experts in the world. She is the Founder of the Break Method, a logic-based, process-oriented approach to emotional rewiring that serves as a sustainable alternative to traditional talk therapy. With over 15,000 clients in 23 countries and a robust practitioner training program accredited by NASW, this industry outsider has successfully become an established thought leader and expert in her field. An industry disruptor to the core, Gold dedicates her career to innovating outdated or corrupt systems for the benefit of humanity. Gold's work presents thought-provoking insights into the causal relationship between childhood emotional patterning, subjective perception of reality, and behavioural expressions in adulthood. She is the host of The Modern Good, where she explores a variety of macro-level mental health and sociological issues with a motivational twist. She is a best-selling author and powerful motivational speaker on biohacking stages and mental health seminars worldwide. Gold is unapologetic in her desire to bring sustainable and efficient healing to the mental health space and do away with emotional and financial co-dependency for good. She is often referred to as “the female Jordan Peterson we've all been waiting for”. Head to https://thebreakprogram.com/products/emotional-repatterning-consultation to take your Brain Pattern Assessment and use exclusive code HEALMYBRAIN for 50% discount. In this episode you will hear: 00:00 intro 00:43 Dolores Cannon's most famous student 09:45 the biomechanics of deliverance 14:45 intentional ignorance 17:30 nature and nurture cannot be separated 24:00 the nuclear family is in a spiritual battle 31:30 the most dissatisfied people are focused on happiness, pleasure and fairness 33:20 The BREAK method 44:30 the heart - the thinking organ 49:15 Bizzie's Heartprint 55:45 don't just subscribe to the narrative Please do share this episode with someone you wants to leave a heartprint. Those with ears, let them hear. Always love Ryan Connect with Bizzie Website: https://www.bizziegold.com/ https://www.breakmethod.com/ FB: https://www.facebook.com/BizzieGold/ IG: https://www.instagram.com/bizziegold/ Connect with Always Better than Yesterday Website: https://abty.co.uk/ Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/alwaysbetterthanyesterdayuk/ LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/abty/ Facebook Community: https://www.facebook.com/groups/weareabty This podcast is sponsored by MattMedia Online Marketing, an independent agency who specialise in content marketing helping business owners get their message seen by the right audience. If you want to get your business seen through the power of social media, head to https://mattmedia.online/ Please email your questions and comments to podcast@abty.co.uk #BizzieGold #BreakMethod
Hey Everyone!! Today I talk to three people who are preparing to take their exams after going through adversity in their lives. Link to sign up for PAID study groups: https://philinthegaps.as.me/Tutoring schedule: https://PhilintheGaps.as.me/?appointmentType=11571837One Day Course: https://PhilintheGaps.as.me/OneDayCourseAudible Affiliate Link: http://www.audibletrial.com/PhilintheGaps -Sign up for the 30 day free trial to support me.If you have any questions here is how to connect with me:Email: Berda24@gmail.comFB Page: www.facebook.com/PhilintheGapsLLC/I appreciate all of the support
Dr. Singer is an internationally recognized expert in youth suicide and social work technology. He is Professor of Social Work at Loyola University Chicago, Past-President of the American Association of Suicidology, coauthor of the best-selling text Suicide in Schools: A Practitioner's Guide to Multi-level Prevention, Assessment, Intervention, and Postvention, co-lead of the Social Work Grand Challenge “Harness Technology for Social Good,” and founder and host of the award-winning Social Work Podcast, for which he was named a Social Work Pioneer in 2023. He has chaired committees for NASW and CSWE and served on youth advisory boards for Sandy Hook Promise, JED Foundation, Suicide Prevention Resource Center, and the National Suicide Prevention (988 Suicide & Crisis) Lifeline. He is the author of over 85 publications and his research has been featured in national and international media outlets like NPR, BBC, Fox, Time Magazine, and The Guardian. The post 146 Prof. Jonathan Singer, Suicide Prevention Month. appeared first on Thoughts On The Social World.
We speak with David A. Wilkerson, PhD, MSW, and Liam O'Sullivan, MA, NQSW, co-editors of "Social Work in an Online World: A Guide to Digital Practice" (NASW Press, 2023). With the onset of the COVID-19 pandemic, in-person social work service delivery was dramatically interrupted. The field continues to experience a shift toward modern technology-mediated forms of delivery. "Social Work in an Online World" addresses this shift and charts the changing landscape from analog to digital practice. David A. Wilkerson, PhD, MSW, is an associate professor and director of the Office of e-Social Work Education and Practice at Indiana University School of Social Work in Indianapolis. Liam O'Sullivan is CEO of Care Alliance Ireland, an award-winning alliance of more than 95 nonprofit organizations supporting family caregivers in the Republic of Ireland. Purchase "Social Work in an Online World" from NASW Press at https://www.naswpress.org/product/53673/social-work-in-an-online-world Our host for this episode is NASW member Elisabeth Joy LaMotte, LICSW, founder of the DC Counseling and Psychotherapy Center and author of "Overcoming Your Parents' Divorce." Visit the shownotes for resources: https://www.socialworkers.org/News/Social-Work-Talks-Podcast/EP104-Social-Work-in-an-Online-World Watch this episode on YouTube: https://youtu.be/jJz8gMHiMnA
Is therapy dead? Can it be revived? How can we move forward? What are the virtues and pitfalls of alternatives to therapy, like coaching or wellness related practices? Typically, therapists go to graduate school and complete postgraduate internships and exams to develop a particular set of psychological tools to address mental illnesses that many of us are faced with. But Bizzie has done something truly unique; she is the first person not licensed as a clinical therapist to have created a therapeutic program for mental health professionals. It's common for relationships to have what Bizzie calls “Symbiotic Dysfunction” whereby the attraction pattern might be opposite, creating triggering and potentially toxic relationships. What can we do to battle this seemingly inherent trait? Do some couplings require some kind of polarity to ignite a relationship? And how therefore do children get socialized by their parents from the viewpoint of Bizzie's Break Method? Bizzie Gold is a Behavior Strategist, author, speaker and creator of Break Method, an NASW accredited program for mental health professionals and an online program to help clients rapidly rewire the emotional response system. She has been a featured workshop presenter and speaker at some of the most prestigious wellness institutes including Omega Institute, Kripalu and 1440 Multiversity. Gold has also appeared on The Dr. Oz Show, TODAY, E!, Buzzfeed and the Huffington Post among others to discuss her unique approach to rapid emotional repatterning that has garnered widespread Hollywood and media praise. You can follow Bizzie on Twitter or Instagram @BizzieGold. Learn more about the Break Method on her website, or sign up for her program here. You can access a PowerPoint on Bizzie's training to “Escape the Paradigm”.Are you interested in Rewiring your brain? Bizzie provides the resources to do so in “The Self Study”Recently, Bizzie had me on her podcast, The Modern Good, in an episode titled, “A Captured Profession,” which you can view here.In this episode I mentioned the book, “Hold On To Your Kids” by Gorden Neufeld and Gabor Maté which you can find in my bookshop or by visiting this Amazon affiliate link. If you enjoyed this conversation, please rate & review it on Apple, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. Share this episode with a friend, or on social media. You can also head over to my YouTube channel, subscribe, like, comment, & share there as well.To get $200 off your EightSleep Pod Pro Cover visit EightSleep.com & enter promo code SOMETHERAPIST.Take 20% off your entire purchase of nourishing superfood beverages at Organifi with code SOMETHERAPIST.Be sure to check out my shop. In addition to wellness products, you can now find my favorite books!MUSIC: Special thanks to Joey Pecoraro for our theme song, “Half Awake,” used with gratitude and permission. www.joeypecoraro.comPRODUCTION: Thanks to Eric and Amber Beels at DifMix.comWatch our medical ethics film, NO WAY BACK: The Reality of Gender-Affirming Care (formerly known as Affirmation Generation). Watch it online or on DVDs starting July 2. Learn more at NoWayBackFilm.com. Follow us on Twitter @2022affirmation or on Instagram at @affirmationgeneration.Have a question for me? Looking to go deeper and discuss these ideas with other listeners? Join my Locals community! Members get to ask questions I will respond to in exclusive, members-only livestreams, plus other perks TBD.Get your first month free with promo code GRANDFATHER; after that, it's only $8/month. Check it out at somekindoftherapist.locals.com. ★ Support this podcast on Patreon ★
Hey Everyone!! Today I talk with two people who are preparing to take the exam for the first time and someone who KICKED THE EXAM DIRECTLY IN THE CHEST on their 5th attempt Link to sign up for PAID study groups: https://philinthegaps.as.me/Tutoring schedule: https://PhilintheGaps.as.me/?appointmentType=11571837One Day Course: https://PhilintheGaps.as.me/OneDayCourseAudible Affiliate Link: http://www.audibletrial.com/PhilintheGaps -Sign up for the 30 day free trial to support me.If you have any questions here is how to connect with me:Email: Berda24@gmail.comFB Page: www.facebook.com/PhilintheGapsLLC/I appreciate all of the support
Hey Everyone!! . Today I talk with someone who KICKED THE EXAM DIRECTLY IN THE CHEST on their 3rd attempt and with people who failed their exams and looking for ways to better break down questions to KICK THE EXAM DIRECTLY IN THE CHEST on their next attempts Link to sign up for PAID study groups: https://PhilintheGaps.as.me/?appointmentType=category:Sunday%20Study%20Groups%20Tutoring schedule: https://PhilintheGaps.as.me/?appointmentType=11571837One Day Course: https://PhilintheGaps.as.me/OneDayCourseAudible Affiliate Link: http://www.audibletrial.com/PhilintheGaps -Sign up for the 30 day free trial to support me.If you have any questions here is how to connect with me:Email: Berda24@gmail.comFB Page: www.facebook.com/PhilintheGapsLLC/I appreciate all of the support
Hey Everyone!! Today I talk with someone who KICKED THE EXAM DIRECTLY IN THE CHEST after 9 years of waiting and with people who failed their exams and looking for ways to avoid second-guessing themselves. Link to sign up for PAID study groups: https://PhilintheGaps.as.me/?appointmentType=category:Sunday%20Study%20Groups%20Tutoring schedule: https://PhilintheGaps.as.me/?appointmentType=11571837One Day Course: https://PhilintheGaps.as.me/OneDayCourseAudible Affiliate Link: http://www.audibletrial.com/PhilintheGaps -Sign up for the 30 day free trial to support me.If you have any questions here is how to connect with me:Email: Berda24@gmail.comFB Page: www.facebook.com/PhilintheGapsLLC/I appreciate all of the support
Hey Everyone!! Today I talk with people who failed their exams and looking to identify their learning style to KILL their next exam attempts. Link to sign up for PAID study groups: https://PhilintheGaps.as.me/?appointmentType=category:Sunday%20Study%20Groups%20Tutoring schedule: https://PhilintheGaps.as.me/?appointmentType=11571837One Day Course: https://PhilintheGaps.as.me/OneDayCourseAudible Affiliate Link: http://www.audibletrial.com/PhilintheGaps -Sign up for the 30 day free trial to support me.If you have any questions here is how to connect with me:Email: Berda24@gmail.comFB Page: www.facebook.com/PhilintheGapsLLC/I appreciate all of the support
We speak with Mary Marden Velasquez, PhD, and Anna Mangum, MSW, MPH, about National Partnerships to Address Prenatal Alcohol and other Substance Use and Fetal Alcohol Spectrum Disorders, the Centers for Disease Control grant that began October 2023 in partnership with the University of Texas at Austin. Our host for this discussion is NASW member Lorrie R. Appleton, LCSW. Visit the show notes for related resources.
Hey Everyone!! Today I talk with people who KICKED THE EXAM DIRECTLY IN THE CHEST and got the job done and someone who is feeling anxious about taking the exam for the 5th time. Link to sign up for PAID study groups: https://PhilintheGaps.as.me/?appointmentType=category:Sunday%20Study%20Groups%20Tutoring schedule: https://PhilintheGaps.as.me/?appointmentType=11571837One Day Course: https://PhilintheGaps.as.me/OneDayCourseAudible Affiliate Link: http://www.audibletrial.com/PhilintheGaps -Sign up for the 30 day free trial to support me.If you have any questions here is how to connect with me:Email: Berda24@gmail.comFB Page: www.facebook.com/PhilintheGapsLLC/I appreciate all of the support
Hey Everyone!!! Today I talk with people who have failed their exams and who preparing to KICK THEIR NEXT ATTEMPTS DIRECTLY IN THE CHEST!!!! Also, I talk about how to combat second-guessing. Link to sign up for PAID study groups: https://PhilintheGaps.as.me/?appointmentType=category:Sunday%20Study%20Groups%20Tutoring schedule: https://PhilintheGaps.as.me/?appointmentType=11571837One Day Course: https://PhilintheGaps.as.me/OneDayCourseAudible Affiliate Link: http://www.audibletrial.com/PhilintheGaps -Sign up for the 30 day free trial to support me.If you have any questions here is how to connect with me:Email: Berda24@gmail.comFB Page: www.facebook.com/PhilintheGapsLLC/I appreciate all of the support
Hey Everyone!! Today I talk with people who have failed their exams and preparing to KILL their next attempts and someone who KICKED THE EXAM DIRECTLY IN THE CHEST!!!! Link to sign up for PAID study groups: https://PhilintheGaps.as.me/?appointmentType=category:Sunday%20Study%20Groups%20Tutoring schedule: https://PhilintheGaps.as.me/?appointmentType=11571837One Day Course: https://PhilintheGaps.as.me/OneDayCourseAudible Affiliate Link: http://www.audibletrial.com/PhilintheGaps -Sign up for the 30 day free trial to support me.If you have any questions here is how to connect with me:Email: Berda24@gmail.comFB Page: www.facebook.com/PhilintheGapsLLC/I appreciate all of the support
Episode 133: In today's interview, NASW-IL Executive Director, Joel Rubin, and I talk about the legislative process that NASW-IL went through to eliminate the requirement that BSW and MSW graduates from accredited social work programs in Illinois had to take the ASWB licensing exam in order to get their LSW. Joel shares the story about how and why the legislation changed. We talked about how the legislative process works, from connecting with other social workers online about pressing issues, to reaching out to NASW staff and volunteer board members, supporting prospective legislative candidates, meeting with your elected officials and how NASW state chapters serve as a resource for social workers and legislators. You can read a transcript of today's interview at https://socialworkpodcast.blogspot.com/2023/02/NASWIL.html You can connect with other social workers at the Social Work Podcast Facebook page at http://www.facebook.com/swpodcast, or follow the Twitter feed at http://www.twitter.com/socworkpodcast.
In this episode, we dive into the recent decision by the National Association of Social Workers (NASW) to oppose the Association of Social Work Boards (ASWB) exams for licensing. We discuss the reasons behind NASW's opposition, including concerns about the exams' fairness and their impact on diversity in the profession. Finally, we explore how this is related to the interstate licensure compact and what the ASWB has proposed to do. ____________________________________ Tap Here to Subscribe to the Social Workers, Rise! Email Resource List Success in Clinical Social Work Webinar reserve your spot now for this event on February 21, 2023. ____________________________________ Thank you to our SPONSORS RISE Directory - A national directory of Clinical Supervisors who are looking to help the next generation of Clinical Social Workers GROW. Therapist Development Center (TDC) Homepage TDC Continuing Education Courses On The Edge of Life: An Introduction to Treating Suicidality Use the code SWRISE10 at checkout to receive 10% off
Today I have a brave mom joining us and I want you to give it a listen, it's jam packed with content to help you connect the dots. Amber Lavigne of little Damariscotta, ME, a quaint town on the coast that is grooming students behind the brick walls of the public K-12 school system. She's fighting back and we speak about her recent guest appearance on The Angle, with Laura Ingram this past Friday night. We are joined by her Goldwater Institute lawyer, Adam Shelton and for a lawyer, he seems like a very good guy and it's a pleasure to have him speak to the 14th amendment and parental rights. I'll provide you some insight to the American School Counselors Association and the National Association of School Social workers, also working to groom kids and you'll be able to connect the dots as to why this is happening in a school on the Maine coast, of 2,500 residents…we are also going to speak to a horrific and alleged rape of a 15 year old student by a substitute teacher in Standish, ME!@GoldwaterInst http://www.goldwaterinstitute.org/donate
Hey Everyone! Today I talk with people who KICKED THE EXAM DIRECTLY IN THE CHEST!!!! A lot of them on the first attempt; it is possible!!! Link to sign up for PAID study groups: https://PhilintheGaps.as.me/?appointmentType=category:Sunday%20Study%20Groups%20Tutoring schedule: https://PhilintheGaps.as.me/?appointmentType=11571837One Day Course: https://PhilintheGaps.as.me/OneDayCourseAudible Affiliate Link: http://www.audibletrial.com/PhilintheGaps -Sign up for the 30 day free trial to support me.If you have any questions here is how to connect with me:Email: Berda24@gmail.comFB Page: www.facebook.com/PhilintheGapsLLC/I appreciate all of the support
Hey Everyone! Today I talk with people who are feeling unmotivated to take the exams and someone who KICKED THE EXAM DIRECTLY IN THE CHEST!!!! Link to sign up for PAID study groups: https://PhilintheGaps.as.me/?appointmentType=category:Sunday%20Study%20Groups%20Tutoring schedule: https://PhilintheGaps.as.me/?appointmentType=11571837One Day Course: https://PhilintheGaps.as.me/OneDayCourseAudible Affiliate Link: http://www.audibletrial.com/PhilintheGaps -Sign up for the 30 day free trial to support me.If you have any questions here is how to connect with me:Email: Berda24@gmail.comFB Page: www.facebook.com/PhilintheGapsLLC/I appreciate all of the support
Host interviews NASW DE & NASW NJ Regional Director Jennifer Thompson. We discuss issues facing #socialworkers such a licensing. We discuss the ASWB exam and ways NASW is fighting to not have it as a requirement for the proposed interstate compact. We discuss issues affecting social workers in #delaware and #newjersey We also discuss the future of social work with the possibilty of using #nfts AI techology and the #metaverse and how NASW DE & NASW NJ are already using this technology. The NASW DE is having their Social Work Conference on November 18th and social workers can earn up to 18 CEUs. Licensed Delaware social workers are due to license renewal in January 2023. Follow NASW DE on Instagram @NASWDE Follow the podcast on Instagram at @The Social Work Rants Podcast Follow on Twitter @SocialWorkRants and Facebook- The Social Work Rants Podcast Get your copy of my 30 page poetry book called Triumph Through Pain: How To Maximize Your Full Potential During Hard Times. Short poems discussing grief, loss, anxiety, self awareness and financial literacy. Check link here: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0B6H1D3ZT Get your podcast shirts and hoodies at www.triumphthroughpain.myshopify.com
Pursuing success as a Latina can be tough. From being there for our family, living up to our parent's expectations, and giving back to the community that helped make us who we are - we balance a lot!Today my guest Yaberci is no different. She's a mission-driven Latina who's put in hard work to be where she's at today. Join us in today's episode as we speak with Yaberci about what it takes to be successful as a Latina woman.Topics we touch on include:The real work Yaberci had to put in to be an educator and directorHow to find work-life balance as a go-getter Why Yabreci is grateful for the opportunities being in the US has providedMore about Yaberci:Yaberci Perez-Cubillan LCSW - R, SIFI is a hands-on, driven leader with a solid track record in the behavioral health industry, possessing a rich mix of technical, financial, and operations experience. As Chief Program Officer, Yaberci oversees Acacia Network's Primary Care, Behavioral Health, Health Home and Skilled Nursing program portfolios, a total of 43 programs, in addition to Special Projects & Initiatives, as well as the operational functioning of Acacia Network's programs and operational initiatives, in coordination with the Director of Operations. She also provides guidance and support in the strategic development of various goals, including integration of the programs and healthcare systems to meet high standards and best practices in safety, quality, compliance, and operational efficiency.In her prior role, Yaberci served as Acacia's Senior Vice President for Behavioral Health and Primary Care Integrated Services, in charge of overseeing operations for Acacia Network's Behavioral and Primary Care Portfolios, including Health Homes, which comprised 39 programs in total. Acacia Network's behavioral health portfolio employs over 600 individuals and provides services to a unique patient population of 6,000 individuals and families. This diverse portfolio includes a combined total of twenty-two outpatient and residential programs licensed by the New York State Office of Alcoholism and Substance Abuse Services (OASAS) and six programs licensed by the New York State Office of Mental Health (OMH), in addition to a significant number of federal and local grants ranging from the provision of integrated care to work performed at Ryker's Island.Yaberci has been on the cutting edge of service delivery, and successfully led one of a few programs to become a Certified Community Behavioral Health Clinic (CCBHC). CCBHC is an outgrowth of the Federal Mental Health Excellence Act, establishing the highest standards for integrated behavioral health treatment, the foundation to the movement into value-based payment in the behavioral health field. She has become a topic expert and has participated in various panels with the National Council for Behavioral Health to highlight innovative approaches to care and the use of the CCBHC model to treat co-occurring mental health and substance use disorders.Yaberci is a recipient of the 2016 Leadership Award by the Latino Social Work Coalition, a 2020 recipient of Entre Nosotras Leadership Award, as well as a 2020 SAPHIRE Leadership Award, NASW. She is a Hunter College School of Social Work graduate and is a trained Clinical Social Worker (LCSW-R). She completed a Post-Master's Certificate Program in Executive Leadership at New York University, Silver School of Social Work.Yaberci serves as a Board Member at the National Council for Mental Wellbeing, As-One Behavioral Health Care Collaborative, I Health; Alcoholism and Substance Abuse Providers of New York, New York State Council for Community Behavioral Healthcare, and the Coalition for Behavioral Health.Yaberci is an Adjunct Professor at Adelphi University where she teaches Human Behavior for Social Work Practice I and II; Foundations of Social Work Practice II and Social Work Assessment a
Deborah M. Figart, PhD, and Ellen Mutari, PhD, are the authors of "Economic Well-Being: An Introduction" from NASW Press. In this episode, we discuss this groundbreaking book, which makes the study of economic life accessible, applicable, and exciting. NASW member Elisabeth Joy LaMotte, LICSW, hosts this episode. Visit the show notes for related resources. You can also watch this interview and leave your comments on YouTube.
Hey Everyone! Today I talk with people who are feeling anxious about taking the exam, someone who lost a parent while studying and someone who KICKED THE EXAM DIRECTLY IN THE CHEST!!!! Link to sign up for PAID study groups: https://PhilintheGaps.as.me/?appointmentType=category:Sunday%20Study%20Groups%20Tutoring schedule: https://PhilintheGaps.as.me/?appointmentType=11571837One Day Course: https://PhilintheGaps.as.me/OneDayCourseAudible Affiliate Link: http://www.audibletrial.com/PhilintheGaps -Sign up for the 30 day free trial to support me.If you have any questions here is how to connect with me:Email: Berda24@gmail.comFB Page: www.facebook.com/PhilintheGapsLLC/I appreciate all of the support
Hey Everyone! Today I talk to people are feeling unmotivated and wanting to give up after failing the exam. Link to sign up for PAID study groups: https://PhilintheGaps.as.me/?appointmentType=category:Sunday%20Study%20Groups%20Tutoring schedule: https://PhilintheGaps.as.me/?appointmentType=11571837One Day Course: https://PhilintheGaps.as.me/OneDayCourseAudible Affiliate Link: http://www.audibletrial.com/PhilintheGaps -Sign up for the 30 day free trial to support me.If you have any questions here is how to connect with me:Email: Berda24@gmail.comFB Page: www.facebook.com/PhilintheGapsLLC/I appreciate all of the support
Hey Everyone! Today I talk to people who are feeling unmotivated and wanting to give up after failing the exam. Link to sign up for PAID study groups: https://PhilintheGaps.as.me/?appointmentType=category:Sunday%20Study%20Groups%20Tutoring schedule: https://PhilintheGaps.as.me/?appointmentType=11571837One Day Course: https://PhilintheGaps.as.me/OneDayCourseAudible Affiliate Link: http://www.audibletrial.com/PhilintheGaps -Sign up for the 30 day free trial to support me.If you have any questions here is how to connect with me:Email: Berda24@gmail.comFB Page: www.facebook.com/PhilintheGapsLLC/I appreciate all of the support
Hey Everyone! Today I talk to people who went into the exam and KICKED IT DIRECTLY IN THE CHEST even with the adversity they experienced!!!! Link to sign up for PAID study groups: https://PhilintheGaps.as.me/?appointmentType=category:Sunday%20Study%20Groups%20Tutoring schedule: https://PhilintheGaps.as.me/?appointmentType=11571837One Day Course: https://PhilintheGaps.as.me/OneDayCourseAudible Affiliate Link: http://www.audibletrial.com/PhilintheGaps -Sign up for the 30 day free trial to support me.If you have any questions here is how to connect with me:Email: Berda24@gmail.comFB Page: www.facebook.com/PhilintheGapsLLC/I appreciate all of the support
Hey Everyone! Today I talk to people feeling unmotivated about taking their exams, about the importance of consistency and NEVER comparing yourself to others!!! Link to sign up for PAID study groups: https://PhilintheGaps.as.me/?appointmentType=category:Sunday%20Study%20Groups%20Tutoring schedule: https://PhilintheGaps.as.me/?appointmentType=11571837One Day Course: https://PhilintheGaps.as.me/OneDayCourseAudible Affiliate Link: http://www.audibletrial.com/PhilintheGaps -Sign up for the 30 day free trial to support me.If you have any questions here is how to connect with me:Email: Berda24@gmail.comFB Page: www.facebook.com/PhilintheGapsLLC/I appreciate all of the support
Hey Everyone! Today I talk about how to conceptualize questions, provide motivation to people wanting to give up, and have people who KICKED THE EXAM DIRECTLY IN THE CHEST share their experiences!!! Link to sign up for PAID study groups: https://PhilintheGaps.as.me/?appointmentType=category:Sunday%20Study%20Groups%20Tutoring schedule: https://PhilintheGaps.as.me/?appointmentType=11571837One Day Course: https://PhilintheGaps.as.me/OneDayCourseAudible Affiliate Link: http://www.audibletrial.com/PhilintheGaps -Sign up for the 30 day free trial to support me.If you have any questions here is how to connect with me:Email: Berda24@gmail.comFB Page: www.facebook.com/PhilintheGapsLLC/I appreciate all of the support
Hey Everyone! Today I talk with people who are doubting themselves and someone who PASSED, as well as discuss how to study content!!! If you want to share your experience, then send me an email or look out on my FB page for the next FREE Study Group. Link to sign up for PAID study groups: https://PhilintheGaps.as.me/?appointmentType=category:Sunday%20Study%20Groups%20Tutoring schedule: https://PhilintheGaps.as.me/?appointmentType=11571837One Day Course: https://PhilintheGaps.as.me/OneDayCourseAudible Affiliate Link: http://www.audibletrial.com/PhilintheGaps -Sign up for the 30 day free trial to support me.If you have any questions here is how to connect with me:Email: Berda24@gmail.comFB Page: www.facebook.com/PhilintheGapsLLC/I appreciate all of the support
Human beings don't come equipped with user manuals to become our best and highest selves, so we struggle to connect the dots that make us truly healthy. Health is the consequence of mental, emotional and spiritual alignment, and when we take care of ourselves holistically, the impediments to us reaching whatever we want to create disappear. How do we stop transgressing the laws of health? What does healing actually look like? In this episode, author of the critically acclaimed book "The Optimal Life, Empowering Health, Healing & Longevity", Dr Stephen Bizal talks about the path to a healthy life in every sense of the world. I describe health in the physical body as a natural expression of spiritual, mental and emotional energy. So the healing process is all about identifying where you may be violating spiritual laws or laws of nature. -Dr Stephen Bizal Three Things We Learned Why health flows from the mind, heart and soulIf we're not reaching the level of health we desire, how do we get to the root cause? The only way to reach optimizationIn the pursuit of healing, are we asking the right questions, the right way, with the right intentions? The critical role our childhoods play in the health struggles we faceHow do we develop an emotional thermostat that allows us to identify our triggers and clear them before we lash out? Guest Bio Dr. Bizal is the author of the critically acclaimed book "The Optimal Life, Empowering Health, Healing & Longevity". An innovator in the field of human potential & human performance, Dr. Bizal founded the 1st executive health & fitness coaching company, Personalized Health & Fitness, Inc., in Southern California in 1981 after helping a friend, obese with critical health issues, lose 100 lbs. The Optimal Life™ EmPOWERment program, "Wellness/Lifestyle Medicine & Healthy-Aging", was the 1st wellness course approved for continuing education in California for both medical and chiropractic health professionals. His book “The Optimal Life” was also an online course at www.psychceu.com: ABED Continuing ED! APA, APT, BBS, BRN, FL, NAADAC, NASW, NBCC, TX Approved psychology and nursing continuing education units! approved for CE for psychologists, LMFT's, RN's and Social Workers in CA, TX, OH & FL. He founded www.WellnessCoachingInstitute.com in 2009, the 1st university approved wellness certification program in the U.S. for health, insurance & human resource professionals. Thought provoking and always entertaining, America's Wellness Go-To Guy will inspire you to take charge of your life by helping you "connect the dots" to create optimal health and the optimal life. A former consultant to the largest integrative medicine treatment center in North America, the second largest hospital chain in America, and a dot.com company that served big Pharma, he has an insider's understanding of both the conventional and alternative medicine models, the challenges that each faces, and why you, the consumer, is the one that is really at risk in today's healthcare environment. For more information, head to https://drbizal.com/ and https://globalmedicineman.wordpress.com/ and email steve@drbizal.com.
Hey Everyone! Today I talk with people who are doubting themselves and someone who PASSED, as well as discuss how to study content!!! If you want to share your experience, then send me an email or look out on my FB page for the next FREE Study Group. Link to sign up for PAID study groups: https://PhilintheGaps.as.me/?appointmentType=category:Sunday%20Study%20Groups%20Tutoring schedule: https://PhilintheGaps.as.me/?appointmentType=11571837One Day Course: https://PhilintheGaps.as.me/OneDayCourseAudible Affiliate Link: http://www.audibletrial.com/PhilintheGaps -Sign up for the 30 day free trial to support me.If you have any questions here is how to connect with me:Email: Berda24@gmail.comFB Page: www.facebook.com/PhilintheGapsLLC/I appreciate all of the support
The Modern Therapist's Survival Guide with Curt Widhalm and Katie Vernoy
What You Should Know About Walk and Talk Therapy and Other Non-Traditional Counseling Settings – Part 2 Curt and Katie chat about non-traditional therapy settings like outdoor walk and talk therapy as well as home-based counseling. In the second of a two-part, continuing education podcourse series, we look at law and ethics, accessibility, informed consent, navigating confidentiality, dual relationships, and what therapist might want to consider before getting started. In this continuing education podcast episode, we look at the laws and ethics related to non-traditional therapy settings For our fourth CE-worthy podcourse, we're looking at the laws and ethics of bringing therapy into non-traditional settings, including walk and talk therapy and home visits. We cover a lot of topics in this episode: Debunking the hesitations of using non-traditional therapy settings Minimizing liability and concerns related to these environments Is it unethical to not consider these environments? Access and payment, including insurance/managed health care concerns and fee setting Unpredictability in the environment Scheduling and permission for services Business practices and systems that support this type of dynamic practice Accessibility of walk & talk and home-based therapies Financial, physical or other types of accessibility (and navigating those) Ways to make sure you clients can access the service and are prepared for the environment Extending boundaries and the consequences of these situations Documentation of any concerns that arise Clinician comfort and preference, do no harm, and do good Informed Consent for non-traditional therapies Client choice and appropriateness, including informed opt-in (and opt out) Health conditions, screening or attestation related to risk and liability Clinician safety and how to talk with your client about these concerns Cancellation policies and back up plans Ability to terminate (both passively and actively) Collaboration and communication Confidentiality when you're meeting outside of the therapy office Managing the risks of the limits of confidentiality in these other settings Collateral consent forms for additional members of the treatment Release forms for others in the home Co-creating the plan to manage these situations Ideas for how to explain the relationship, if needed Active and passive loss of confidentiality (and how to talk about these risks) Boundaries versus confidentiality (for example where in someone's home to meet) Documentation and consultation Dual Relationships that can happen during walk and talk or home-based therapies Professional therapy never includes sex Casual nature of the relationship in these settings and the threat of friendship vibes Not all dual relationships are problematic Host/guest dynamics as something to pay attention to, but not necessarily harmful Navigating the potential medical needs of home-bound clients (helping and/or advocating for more help) What therapists should assess before getting started Liability and malpractice Logistics and planning Assessing client vs clinician benefit Assessing competency for these types of services Training, consultation, supervision, documentation Our Generous Sponsors for this episode of the Modern Therapist's Survival Guide: Thrizer Thrizer is a new modern billing platform for therapists that was built on the belief that therapy should be accessible AND clinicians should earn what they are worth. Their platform automatically gets clients reimbursed by their insurance after every session. Just by billing your clients through Thrizer, you can potentially save them hundreds every month, with no extra work on your end. Every time you bill a client through Thrizer, an insurance claim is automatically generated and sent directly to the client's insurance. From there, Thrizer provides concierge support to ensure clients get their reimbursement quickly, directly into their bank account. By eliminating reimbursement by check, confusion around benefits, and obscurity with reimbursement status, they allow your clients to focus on what actually matters rather than worrying about their money. It is very quick to get set up and it works great in completement with EHR systems. Their team is super helpful and responsive, and the founder is actually a long-time therapy client who grew frustrated with his reimbursement times The best part is you don't need to give up your rate. They charge a standard 3% payment processing fee! Thrizer lets you become more accessible while remaining in complete control of your practice. A better experience for your clients during therapy means higher retention. Money won't be the reason they quit on therapy. Sign up using THIS LINK if you want to test Thrizer completely risk free! Sign up for Thrizer with code 'moderntherapists' for 1 month of no credit card fees or payment processing fees! That's right - you will get one month of no payment processing fees, meaning you earn 100% of your cash rate during that time! Melissa Forziat Events & Marketing Today's episode of The Therapy Reimagined podcast is brought to you by Melissa Forziat Events & Marketing. Melissa is a small business marketing expert who specializes in marketing advice for businesses that have limited resources. Are you looking to boost your reach and get more clients from social media? Check out the “How to Win at Social Media (even with no budget!)” course from marketing expert, Melissa Forziat. It can be so hard to get engagement on social media or to know what to post to tell the story of your brand. It can be even harder to get those conversations to turn into new clients. Social media marketing isn't just for businesses that have a ton of money to spend on advertising. Melissa will work you step-by-step through creating a smart plan that fits within your budget. How to Win at Social Media is packed full of information. Usually a course as detailed as this would be priced in the thousands, but to make it accessible to small businesses, it is available for only $247. PLUS, as a listener of the Modern Therapist's Survival Guide, you can use promo code THERAPY to get 10% off. So, if you are ready to go to the next level in your business, click THIS LINK and sign up for the How to Win at Social Media course today! Please note that Therapy Reimagined/The Modern Therapist's Survival Guide Podcast is a paid affiliate for Melissa Forziat Events & Marketing, so we will get a little bit of money in our pockets if you sign up using our link. Thank you in advance! Receive Continuing Education for this Episode of the Modern Therapist's Survival Guide Hey modern therapists, we're so excited to offer the opportunity for 1 unit of continuing education for this podcast episode – Therapy Reimagined is bringing you the Modern Therapist Learning Community! Once you've listened to this episode, to get CE credit you just need to go to moderntherapistcommunity.com/podcourse, register for your free profile, purchase this course, pass the post-test, and complete the evaluation! Once that's all completed - you'll get a CE certificate in your profile or you can download it for your records. For our current list of CE approvals, check out moderntherapistcommunity.com. You can find this full course (including handouts and resources) here: Walk &Talk and Other Non-Traditional Therapy Settings Part 2 Continuing Education Approvals: When we are airing this podcast episode, we have the following CE approval. Please check back as we add other approval bodies: Continuing Education Information CAMFT CEPA: Therapy Reimagined is approved by the California Association of Marriage and Family Therapists to sponsor continuing education for LMFTs, LPCCs, LCSWs, and LEPs (CAMFT CEPA provider #132270). Therapy Reimagined maintains responsibility for this program and its content. Courses meet the qualifications for the listed hours of continuing education credit for LMFTs, LCSWs, LPCCs, and/or LEPs as required by the California Board of Behavioral Sciences. We are working on additional provider approvals, but solely are able to provide CAMFT CEs at this time. Please check with your licensing body to ensure that they will accept this as an equivalent learning credit. Resources for Modern Therapists mentioned in this Podcast Episode: We've pulled together resources mentioned in this episode and put together some handy-dandy links. Please note that some of the links below may be affiliate links, so if you purchase after clicking below, we may get a little bit of cash in our pockets. We thank you in advance! Cooley, S. J., Jones, C. R., Moss, D., & Robertson, N. (2022). Organizational perspectives on outdoor talking therapy: Towards a position of “environmental safe uncertainty.” British Journal of Clinical Psychology, 61(1), 132–156. https://doi.org/10.1111/bjc.12315 Boland, K. M. (2019). Ethical Considerations for Providing In-Home Mental Health Services for Homebound Individuals. Ethics & Behavior, 29(4), 287–304. https://doi.org/10.1080/10508422.2018.1518138 For the full references list, please see the course on our learning platform. Relevant Episodes of MTSG Podcast: Walk and Talk and Other Non-Traditional Therapy Settings Part 1 Field-Based Private Practice with Megan Costello, LMFT Dual Relationships: Pros and Cons The Balance Between Boundaries and Humanity (an interview with Dr. Jamie Marich) Who we are: Curt Widhalm, LMFT Curt Widhalm is in private practice in the Los Angeles area. He is a member of the California Association of Marriage and Family Therapists ethics committee, an Adjunct Professor at Pepperdine University, lecturer in Counseling Laws and Ethics at California State University Northridge, a former Law & Ethics Subject Matter Expert for the California Board of Behavioral Sciences, and former CFO of CAMFT. Learn more at: www.curtwidhalm.com Katie Vernoy, LMFT Katie Vernoy is a Licensed Marriage and Family Therapist, with a Master's degree in Clinical Psychology from California State University, Fullerton and a Bachelor's Degree in Psychology and Theater from Occidental College in Los Angeles, California. Katie has always loved leadership and began stepping into management positions soon after gaining her license in 2005. Katie's experience spans many leadership and management roles in the mental health field: program coordinator, director, clinical supervisor, hiring manager, recruiter, and former President of the California Association of Marriage and Family Therapists. Now in business for herself, Katie provides therapy, consultation, or business strategy to support leaders, visionaries, and helping professionals in pursuing their mission to help others. Learn more at: www.katievernoy.com A Quick Note: Our opinions are our own. We are only speaking for ourselves – except when we speak for each other, or over each other. We're working on it. Our guests are also only speaking for themselves and have their own opinions. We aren't trying to take their voice, and no one speaks for us either. Mostly because they don't want to, but hey. Stay in Touch with Curt, Katie, and the whole Therapy Reimagined #TherapyMovement: www.mtsgpodcast.com www.therapyreimagined.com www.moderntherapistcommunity.com Patreon Profile Buy Me A Coffee Profile https://www.facebook.com/therapyreimagined/ https://twitter.com/therapymovement https://www.instagram.com/therapyreimagined/ Consultation services with Curt Widhalm or Katie Vernoy: The Fifty-Minute Hour Connect with the Modern Therapist Community: Our Facebook Group – The Modern Therapists Group Modern Therapist's Survival Guide Creative Credits: Voice Over by DW McCann https://www.facebook.com/McCannDW/ Music by Crystal Grooms Mangano http://www.crystalmangano.com/ Transcript for this episode of the Modern Therapist's Survival Guide podcast (Autogenerated): Curt Widhalm 00:00 This episode of ModernTherapist's Survival Guide is brought to you by Thrizer. Katie Vernoy 00:04 Thrizer is a modern billing platform for private pay therapists. Their platform automatically gets clients reimbursed by their insurance after every session. Just by billing your clients through Thrizer you can potentially save them hundreds every month with no extra work on your end. The best part is you don't need to give up your rate. They charge a standard 3% payment processing fee. By using the link in the show notes, you can get a month of billing without processing fees just to test them out for your clients. Curt Widhalm 00:30 Listen at the end of the episode for more information. Katie Vernoy 00:34 This episode is also brought to you by Melissa Forziat Events and Marketing. Curt Widhalm 00:39 Melissa Forziat is a small business marketing expert who specializes in marketing advice for businesses that have limited resources, including the very special course How to Win at Social Media, Even with No Budget. Stay tuned to the end of the episode to learn how you can get the most from social media marketing, even with little to no budget. Announcer 00:59 You're listening to The Modern Therapist's Survival Guide where therapists live, breathe and practice as human beings. To support you as a whole person and a therapist, here are your hosts, Curt Widhalm and Katie Vernoy. Curt Widhalm 01:15 Hey modern therapists, we're so excited to offer the opportunity for one unit of continuing education for this podcast episode. Once you've listened to this episode, to get CE credit, you just need to go to moderntherapistcommunity.com, register for your free profile, purchase this course, pass the post test and complete the evaluation. Once that's all completed, you'll get a CE certificate in your profile, where you can download it for your records. For a current list of our CE approvals, check out moderntherapistcommunity.com. Katie Vernoy 01:47 Once again, hop over to moderntherapistcommunity.com for one CE once you've listened. Woo hoo! Curt Widhalm 01:54 Welcome back modern therapists. This is The Modern Therapist's Survival Guide. I'm Curt Widhalm with Katie Vernoy and this is our second in a two part episodes for our CE content on doing therapy in non-traditional therapy settings. Part one was a lot about the logistics and clinical concerns. Part two, we are looking more at law and ethics concerns. We had made reference to a number of things as far as precautions to take. And if it's not written down, it's probably not something that you had thought about ahead of time or so the lawyers who are suing you would say. So, some of the concerns and stuff that we're going to talk about here today is about, you know, avoiding any liability, minimizing liability that we can take into this episode. So Katie, what are the most important things for us to talk about now? What are you hearing from some of the people who are consulting with you? And let's dive in from there. Katie Vernoy 03:05 Sure. And just to clarify for folks that this is the first one I would recommend going back to the previous CE episode, it's kind of a 101 on what walk and talk and home based therapies are and clinical considerations, benefits and how to do it. So definitely check back to that one. The most important thing is that we think about what we're doing ethically. And that's kind of what this conversation is going to be about. But I think the first place to start is to look a little bit at why there's been such a hesitation around employing especially therapies like outdoor walk and talk kind of therapies. I think home based has been around for a while, but there's been hesitation just in any kind of non-traditional setting. And part of it really stems from provider anxiety, or kind of the rigidity that we can have around what therapy looks like. Is it just in my office in the safe space where I can control everything? And I think there's a lot of stereotypes around what therapy is. And one of the articles I was reading Cooley et all 2021 put together an article 'Organizational Perspectives on Outdoor Talking Therapy' in the British Journal of Clinical Psychology. Cooley's done a lot of these things. In looking at the systemic pushback on this, what they really posited is that we need to get to a place of environmental safe uncertainty. And what that means it's a position of openness, curiosity and collaboration regarding the therapy environment, including the possibility of other environments being more conducive to therapy, other environments meaning not the office. And that leads me to kind of the first point which is: Is it unethical not to consider these environments because they maybe more conducive to treatment, then sitting in your nice little office? Curt Widhalm 05:06 We have talked about in some of our previous presentations about how much of our field is modeled around clinician comfort and clinician principles, rather than necessarily what's best for clients. And some of those are logistical concerns, you know, we can't always just, you know, stack six or seven clients in a day back to back if it means that we're having to also travel to different parts of a city or county or, you know, much further if you're working in rural practices. If what we're going to is kind of the core principles of have the first stance of like, do no harm, but our second stance is do good. Katie Vernoy 05:47 Yeah, exactly. Curt Widhalm 05:50 And, you know, this is that push pull between those two concepts. Is the environment of our office is one that is hopefully set up best for do no harm. And it's kind of in that good enough for like, doing good. Now, what I'm hearing is the aspirationally, doing best is doing therapy, where it's going to most benefit the client. Katie Vernoy 06:18 Yes. Curt Widhalm 06:19 And we do have, you know, some examples of this that, you know, for instance, Italy, as an example, here is a country that does not have mental hospitals. That it is about being able to work with people with mental illness, in the environments that they live, that kind of thrusts them into needing to have the right approaches to clinical intervention that leads them best into their day to day lives. On the other hand, we have America where we throw people in jail and ignore that mental illness might be a factor. And that's not today's episode. Katie Vernoy 07:01 No, no. But I think that that really hits at the crux of the argument here, which is, there are people for whom home based or walk and talk therapy is the best form of treatment. And so the best way we get to a system that supports it is holding this environmental safe uncertainty, which is being able to be open and safely open to the idea that we can be in an uncertain environment. Another systemic concern, which I think gets in the way and dances around with some of our our ethics and laws, is payers and payment. Now, insurance coverage, you know, Medicaid, for those of you in the United States, oftentimes covers a lot of this stuff. But there are concerns around driving time, and is that billable? I know, we had a huge argument around that when I was completing mental health but if you are a private practitioner, and you're needing to then charge extra to drive to a client's home, for example, or do you on the flip side, decrease your fees, if you let go of your office, and you're only seeing people in these non traditional spaces. And it really puts this thing of around payment of are we being limited by payers, whether it's insurance payment, or how much someone can afford to pay on what treatments we can offer. And we at least there's a CAMFT ethics code three point eleven or 3.11, that says we actually have to tell people about options for treatment, even if their insurance company doesn't cover it. Curt Widhalm 08:47 So much around payment is going to be in the: we charge for services that we actually provide. We let our consumers know what we're actually going to provide. So that way, they can opt into what is best for them. And that's going to take a couple of different forms here. Like you know, on one hand, you're talking about, you know, managed care system, but keep in mind that these ethics codes are written in a way that helps to maybe hit kind of the best catchment of every type of practice in being able to write them. And so, I'm going to start not with managed care systems here first, I'm gonna start with, you know, those private practices that are all cash payer or doing super bills. You might, you know, have a client where you say, alright, I can go and see you at your house. But it's also going to take me time to drive there. And this is roughly how long it's gonna take me to drive here. Here's my driving fee. You cannot put that driving time as session provided time on something like a super bill, those are actually two separate line items. And so this is that recommendation of charge appropriately for the services that you're providing, out what you're speaking to, and going back to the manage healthcare part of it is that drive time isn't an option. And so therefore, it kind of thrust some of the business practices to, if they're going to operate efficiently, maybe not allow for that kind of time to sit there in the middle. It is a possibility with maybe things like, you know, a private health insurance company that you can still tack on that drive time to those clients, that's just being able to get to a different service, insurance probably isn't going to reimburse it. But I think that, you know, in my limited knowledge of some of the federal health care systems, I don't think that that's going to be an option there. Katie Vernoy 11:01 Well, and I think with some of the the systems that require those things like Medicaid, Medi-cal, Medicare, you know, some of those payers, they're gonna have their own rules, and whether drive time is billable or not, I think is something that you want to pay attention to. I think the challenge is, is when it's your own private practice, and do you have it as a separate line item? Or do you just charge more for the service? You know, is there is there an issue with saying, I'm going to raise my fee, X amount, and I'm going to spend 30 minutes driving to client a, and zero minutes driving to client B, but they're both point paying the same amount? Is there a concern there? Curt Widhalm 11:49 Yes. And it's gonna fall under those usual and customary amounts. And, again, there's probably going to be people who do this kind of stuff anyway, and just kind of all lump it into one sort of payment and don't pay much mind to it. But when clinicians are being examined for what is your actual usual and customary be prepared for questions like how do you figure that out? If somebody is to look at client A where it's alright, you've got this 30 minute drive time incorporated into this fee? What's the justification for the exact same type of services just being provided in your office having a completely different fee? And you need to be able to reasonably and prudently explain the differences between those two, because when it comes to what your usual and customary fee is, it's also the justification for those fees that needs to be explained. Katie Vernoy 12:48 And I think the equity and the ability to do a fair payment for all clients, there's arguments in both directions in that if, if on average, I spend X amount of time driving, and I don't charge individual clients for driving, you're saying that's not okay. Curt Widhalm 13:07 Correct. Katie Vernoy 13:08 If I go, if I go all over town, and client a is typically a 30 minute drive, sometimes they're a 90 minute drive, client B is usually a 10 minute drive, but sometimes they're a 40 minute drive, I need to charge them differentially is what you're telling me. Curt Widhalm 13:22 You need to charge for what you're actually doing. And you need to do that appropriately. And you need to have that kind of stuff set up, up front. Katie Vernoy 13:32 Okay. Curt Widhalm 13:33 And especially with our no surprises act being introduced in America here in 2022, is there's a potential that if you're having kind of these traffic concerns, as you're describing, that it's a separate line item that you're going to need to put in your good faith estimates to clients. Because the whole point of this is that it's not to surprise clients with your billing. And the best way of protecting yourself on that is putting that information in writing ahead of time and having clients see it and agree to it. Katie Vernoy 14:13 Yeah. And I think there's there could also potentially be an argument just having a specific fee for home based services. So here's the session fee. Here's the home based services fee. But you're saying if somebody is further away, I got to charge more. Curt Widhalm 14:30 Saying that it needs to be commensurate and clear with your policies. Katie Vernoy 14:34 All right. All right. All right. We don't want to get stuck there. Curt Widhalm 14:37 That results in a higher fee, then that's commensurate with whatever policies you have. Katie Vernoy 14:43 All right. So there may be some fee stuff to sort out if you're doing this, especially if you're driving a lot of distance most days. Some of the recommendations that I've given to folks in the past is setting up what I would call catchment areas. So on Monday, I'm in this area of town On Tuesday, I'm in this area of town on Wednesday, I'm this area of town. And on Thursday, I'm at the walk and talk location by my office or whatever, right like you, you know, just so that you diminish those differences. However, regardless of setting that up, and potentially putting systems in place, there is still going to be unpredictability. And that can be due to a lot of different things. So you've got the unpredictability of the environment, which we talked about in detail in our previous episode. But there's also this unpredictability on, if you're outside what the weather's like. If you're going to someone's home, if they have visitors. And I think there's those types of things where when you have so little control, the system says, "No, don't do this, don't do this. This is scary." Curt Widhalm 15:50 So as a resident of Southern California, where our weather is usually 75, and sunny, I don't find myself traveling to other places in the country, sometimes where I forget that weather is different. Like... Katie Vernoy 16:04 There's... weather is a thing in places Curt. I know, it seems weird to us, but there's actually weather in other places. Curt Widhalm 16:11 So, my informed consent is being cognizant that people are not fragile little beings, and that they can make their own decisions about things. So it does make mention of weather does happen, and it's your responsibility to be dressed appropriately for it. And that's at least, like this is a foreseeable thing that can happen. Katie Vernoy 16:43 Yes, we'll go into more of this and the informed consent section, because we could dig into this very deeply, especially the the fragile little beings. But, um, but I think just as far as kind of the overarching systems concerns, just to close this out, I think the other pushback that often happens is scheduling and getting permission for the services that are provided. Whether it's getting permission to go into someone's home, school or office. Whether it's scheduling to get to a certain location, I know I've had to shift clients by 15 or 20 minutes to get to walk back to my office between sessions. And I think the difficulty with that means that you have to be able to navigate those things with your clients. Because, well, if we're in the office, it'll be at this time, if we're at the park, it'll be at this time. And if we're in video, it'll, you know, like, it's, it's something where navigating those concerns, I think, can be very hard for some clients, because they want their exact time, every single week. Curt Widhalm 17:46 And as we mentioned, in the first episode, this is a little bit more of that dynamic practicing that you need to be able to respond in any sort of given situation and, and it's having backup plans, you know, in the days where there is inclement weather, it might change that, alright, we're not meeting at the park, we're actually meeting at an office instead, or, and... Katie Vernoy 18:10 We're doing video, doing telehealth. Curt Widhalm 18:12 And that might affect a start time. And I think it's prudent of therapists to make sure that we revisit that as a possibility fairly frequently with our clients so that way, it's not a surprise when and if it does come up. Katie Vernoy 18:29 Yes, yes. And I think just allowing for that in the conversation. So. So that's kind of the high level systems concerns. I think we've addressed those well enough. I think that the brunt of our conversation is really going to be around the legal and ethical concerns that a lot of people bring up that are kind of more individual with your client, the things that you have to grapple with not just as a system, can we say it's okay to do this thing. Some of the thoughts I am sharing are from an article, Boland 2018, 'Ethical Considerations for Providing Home Based Services for Homebound Individuals.' It's obviously there's some specific things to folks who are homebound. And I want to mention those things. Because if you're doing home based therapy, it could be for someone that is homebound for mental health reasons or physical reasons. But it also talks I think sufficiently around the types of things that you might encounter in an environment that is not yours that you don't control. Accessibility, I think is is one of the reasons that people say to do this to go to people's homes, meet them where they're at, they don't have to, to drive, those kinds of things, but it's also a complaint, especially around walk and talk therapy. And so there is a value in a lot of the ethical codes around accessibility, about providing therapy across the board and in my thoughts, you know, like there's physical abilities and accessibility that you want to make sure if you're doing a physical activity together, you know where we can make sure that you're able to walk together or if you if someone is not able to walk that, that, if they would like to be outdoors, you can provide them space to do that, whether it's in a wheelchair or in other types of settings or primarily sitting outdoors, those kinds of things. But it is, I think, a harder concept around, okay, if I've got someone who is disabled, or who has another challenge that outdoors might not work for, this may not be an accessible modality for them. There's also just the physical concerns. And you'd already mentioned, like they need to wear the right clothes and to do the things but but there is making sure that when they show up, they can access the service. So I wear a hat. And oftentimes during the summer, I wear sunscreen, and you know, I make sure that I've got the right shoes on. And so one of the things is looking at if someone comes unprepared for what you're signed up for, what do you do with that? I mean, you kind of just said, I leave it up to them. Curt Widhalm 21:00 So I'm looking at the American Counseling Associations Code of Ethics here. And this is A6C documenting boundary extensions. And I'll paraphrase this, but it's if counselors extend boundaries, they must officially document prior to the interaction when feasible, the rationale for such an interaction, the potential benefit and the anticipated consequences for the clients. When unintentional harm occurs, the counselor must also show evidence of attempt to remedy such a harm. And I think that this is a really good and dynamic ethical code here because it says that what we talked about in the last episode and and what we're going to get into with our informed consent discussion here in a little bit, is that we need to anticipate what the consequences of situations are. But these are also things that are going to be dynamic, that if a client is showing up doesn't have the right footwear, for example, you know, is going for a walk on a trail in flip flops is going to be something that is doable for them is you need to then document that you're having that conversation. And that it's up to them to be able to continue to opt into it. And if they do end up getting hurt, you do need to document like, what it is you're doing. So you can't just be like, "Well, alright, if you want to walk in flip flops that's on you," like, really, like you don't, there's just there's a potential, like there's a long walk, these might not be stable enough shoes, you know, the person gets a blister halfway around the loop, like, you know, you gotta be like "You need me to get your band aid?" like "You want to wait here until, you know, you paramedics come?" Katie Vernoy 22:59 I think it's I think all of those things are really important because to me, there's also the other element, when you talk about extending boundaries, just the element of I'm wearing those kinds of clothes, I may be in not as good physical shape as my clients as far as how fast I can walk, how long I can walk, I fell once and my client helped me up. We'll talk about that in dual relationships a little bit later. But I think it's it's something where this is a little bit harder to, to kind of cleanly say is that are these forms of treatment accessible or not? And so the the question I have here is, do you need to be able to provide these options for all people? Curt Widhalm 23:47 Going back to what I said at the top of the episode, is that sometimes you're going to provide therapy that is just based on clinician preference to. You know, what, when we talk about accessibility sort of things, we, as individuals, and especially in private practices don't need to absolutely make ourselves 100% available in every single direction for every single possible type of client. And this is where we do the good enough approach. And we take steps to address situations that are more accommodating as those situations arise. And it may not be immediately, you know, you're talking about clients with disabilities or something that might affect mobility. Well, that might be a consideration that you look at as far as your office building or whether or not you participate in therapy outside of the office. Some of these situations are also going to come up with some of our able bodied clients. You know, if you have have a client who breaks their ankle in between sessions that this is now something where you may not be prepared for that. What you're going to want to do is then stop, evaluate the situation, go through what the new risks and consequences of things are. We like, 'Alright, man, like, you got to hobble along on your crutches faster along with me. So that way we...' Probably not a good recommendation there. But it's, you know, all right, we might not be able to have a full, you know, loop of sessions, you might be like, left out there, would you rather sit on a bench instead? Katie Vernoy 25:41 Or would you rather meet via video? There are those types of accessibility. And then I think there's also some of the things and we started talking about this in the last episode, but for home based clients, where do we only provide these things for folks living in certain neighborhoods? Where we feel safe? You know, do we only provide home base for people that have a specific payer? I mean, or who can afford it? You know, I think it's, it's something where I agree with you, I think we do the best that we can. And some of it has to have some boundaries around our own needs, you know, we can only afford what we can afford to, as far as, you know, lowering fees, we can only do what we can do around our own safety, and we want to protect our own safety. But I think there's that element of being aware, are you providing a service that is inaccessible in a way that is discriminatory? And I think in this situation, I think it's very much case by case. And I don't think that this is a reason that you would not consider using these ever. I think, I think accessibility issues are pretty navigatable in this situation. Curt Widhalm 26:56 Sure. And to be a little bit more open about this. There's a couple of citations here that I want to point out, Lazarus all the way back in 94, said one of the worst professional or ethical violations is that of permitting current risk management principles to take precedence over human interventions, and very much advocating for we should take these considerations into account. And that it may be unethical to not open our practices to being able to serve in a wider variety of communities. And the goal of this is to free therapists to intervene with client's specific situations in presenting problems, rather than just kind of sitting back and playing it in the safest way possible. Katie Vernoy 27:55 Exactly. But speaking of being safe, I think it's time for us to jump in to the informed consent, because I think it's truly important. I think all of the ethical codes, talk about informed consent, and we definitely in these situations needs a very strong informed consent. Curt Widhalm 28:12 Yes. Katie Vernoy 28:13 So I think first off, we want to look at making sure that this is truly the client's choice. That the plan is created together. I know, there were times at least during the pandemic for me, when I was ready to be face to face with folks, I was not ready for being in the office. And so I started doing walk and talk. And there were some clients that I told it to. And after I set it, I was like, that was just for me. We did not end up doing walk and talk, I will I will put that out there. I was able to dial it back. But there was something was like, Hey, you want to meet me at the park? And they're like, "Umm, that seems weird." And so to me, because we've talked about in the previous episode that there was clinician benefit for being outdoors and walk and talk, mental health, wellbeing all that good stuff. And, and also efficacy because you're more creative and your brains working better. But that is not a reason to do it. Like it has to actually be co-created. And the treatment plan needs to be collaborative. And I think that's something where it can be very easy to say, well, this is my new thing, and we're all doing it. Or this is the only thing I do and you're gonna do it versus let's see if you're a match and I'll refer you out if I don't do other forms of therapy. Curt Widhalm 29:33 So there's two things that you're talking about here. One is the creating the plan together. And some of this is also going to be based on clinician competence and actual services offered that, you know, the client may come in with ideas of what they want out of therapy, but if it's not something that you provide, you are still free to say no. Katie Vernoy 29:56 Of course. Curt Widhalm 29:58 And so I don't want anybody to feel like they have to absolutely twist themselves into knots in order to do something, if it's not something that you yourself are comfortable with. And you know, as far as the place where you provide therapy, you're free to say like, you know, I only work out of the office, or I'm only doing virtual sessions right now. And giving those referrals like Katie's talking about. Katie Vernoy 30:24 And I think the point for the informed consent is to be very clear within the informed consent, how you're doing treatment and making sure that the client is opting into that, versus what they imagine therapy to be because you if you don't know how to describe it, how can they really know what they're opting in for? The other thing too, is, especially with some of these more non-traditional therapy spaces, they really need to recognize it's voluntary. And that they can opt out at any time. And I think... what it seems obvious, you know, to us, but there is the power differential. And I think there's also this element of when someone's doing a treatment that's specifically aligned to their location: ERP, desensitization, all the different kinds of things where somebody's kind of walking through something really challenging with their therapist, they need to know that they can opt out that they have some control. Curt Widhalm 31:22 That's just good therapy and not abusive therapy in the first place. Katie Vernoy 31:29 Of course, I mean, some of this is going to be like,duh, this is the normal thing that we would do in an informed consent, it just is, it's a bit different if you and your client are on a trail, and letting them know, you can opt out and walk back. And I will, I will finish the loop or I will follow you back. You know, whatever it is, I mean, I think people need to know that they have control and autonomy, and this is their treatment and not the clinicians dictation of what's going to happen. Curt Widhalm 31:58 And in addition to that, you as the therapist leading the conversation on 'how is this working out for you?' that extends that action to not just waiting for clients to then passively opt out and just like leave you standing in a park the next week when you're supposed to be meaning there. Katie Vernoy 32:18 Sure. Yeah. Specifically to the outdoor therapy, there are the health issues. And I think one of the things I looked at, talked about doing a health screening questionnaire, I feel a little concerned about scope of practice there, potentially a physician note or some sort of approval. But I've also seen consent for treatments that just have an attestation that I'm taking my own risks, and I'm healthy enough to do this. Where do you stand on that, Curt? Curt Widhalm 32:47 I think that it's important that considerations be factored into it. And again, where I'm always a little weirded out that our profession treats people as both incredibly fragile and capable of making every decision in their life at the same time. So I like that the informed consents have: you're opting into this and you're taking care of your physical health as part of that consideration. It at least speaks to us thinking of, well, this could be a risk, and especially in more litigious areas, you know, if you're gonna get sued by somebody, this is again, reducing liability, because you can always imagine that opposing counsel in a deposition saying, "Well, why didn't you consider that this client might be not a good candidate for getting physical exercise?" So it at least is something that allows for you and your attorney in that situation to say, they attested that they could and that they were medically cleared for it, you know. Oddly, I see the same kind of language in things like sporting events like marathons and 10, Ks and five K's where it's like, you've you physically fit person, theoretically have cleared that you're medically okay to come in and do this. At worst, it's a line to check off in your informed consent. And at best, it's something that really does help to limit some of that liability for you. Katie Vernoy 34:30 Another element with that is potentially like someone who is allergic to bees, or to bee stings or or some of the things that you may want to be aware of if you're outdoors with someone. I feel like that could be a separate conversation and/or something that goes into the informed consent. I have mixed feelings there. Curt Widhalm 34:53 There's always going to be, no pun intended. There's always going to be something that inevitably gets left off of a list like that, you know, and there's got to be a natural line, like, you know, how specific you have to be with things like allergies, like, you know, you're going to be exposed potentially to tree pollen and, you know, if you're walking by a dog park, you know, animal dander say. So I like that there's at least something that points to you attest to, you know, if you're speaking to a client, you attest to that you are medically and physically capable of being in these environments as cleared by a medical professional. And you accept all risks that go along with being outside where you're potentially exposed to nature. Katie Vernoy 35:48 I would almost add and this was this was something suggested in one of the things I was reading is that you kind of encourage them to tell you if there's anything you should know. I think if someone's allergic to pollen, and it's spring, I think, okay, I don't need to know that. But if someone is deathly allergic to bees I want to be aware of that. So that I know to call the ambulance when/if someone gets a bee sting. Now, granted, they could tell me that in the moment. But I don't know if I raise my liability if I'm aware that they have that concern. Curt Widhalm 36:26 Most attorneys will do a very good job of finding some way to make you know, that you should have been aware. And, you know, so it's kind of that naivete is not a protection, and especially intentional naivete. So, yeah, it's a basically a longer version of the question that you asked: any concerns about you being outside and walking around physically, you know, that this is the kind of terrain that we're going to walk on, generally, well maintained sidewalks, at times, sidewalks with cracks in them, you're potentially crossing the streets in a couple of areas, or walking on the street for sections without sidewalks. If you're walking on a trail in a park, it's unpaved, maintained grounds that, you know, has potential tripping hazards. You can put some of those language things in there that, again, you're going for reducing liability, you're not going to be expected to protect against everything here. Katie Vernoy 37:36 And I think just for to close that one up, I think I would put something to the effect of you're attesting that you're fine medically, and that you will inform the therapist if there's anything they should know. Curt Widhalm 37:49 Yes. Katie Vernoy 37:50 So another thing that should go into the informed consent are confidentiality challenges and how you're going to manage those. But we're going to do a whole section on that. So I want to skip that one really quickly. And go to clinician safety, because I think this is one that I was surprised in reading through the informed consent suggestions, that clinician safety was there. I don't concern myself with this prep for walk and talk therapy, I think that probably is something where I'm having at least a little bit of control over the environment and so I'm opting in. This is more for home based, where you're contracting basically, with your client, if there's anything that they need to manage for clinician safety, so this: is locking up pets, this is: potentially if there are family members that are very much against treatment, and maybe have even threaten the clinician, or if there's or if there are family members that just are going to be mean... I don't know. But that there are some safeguards in place, and talking about how the clinician is going to be remaining safe in those situations. Curt Widhalm 39:05 And I think that the more clear that you can be with any of these things, the better because, again, you're looking for an open collaborative process here. In order for me to be able to help you know, again, coming back to like allergies, things for clinician has a strong allergy to something like perfumes, that might be a barrier to treatment when it comes to a clinician visiting someone's household. Yeah, and these are the things where yeah, you move up to having pet secured, if there has been a threat from a family member, you're gonna have to address that with your clients as far as "alright. I can't be in that environment and provide you therapy. We need to find something else to do." So again coming back to that problem solving alleviating this the the part of the problem and developing a new treatment strategy from there. Katie Vernoy 40:07 And I think exactly what you said, I think that the biggest piece of that is maybe not even delineating all the clinician safety concerns. I mean, if there are specific ones, like I have these kinds of allergies or whatever, you may want to have that in there. But even just say if the clinician is not able to ensure/secure their own security, the session may be discontinued. I know for myself, it seems obvious. And I think this is something that actually is good both for kind of newer clinicians or clinicians under supervision as well as clients to think about this. But if you're in a client's home, and something happens, where you feel like your life is at risk, or if you feel like you're in danger, you should leave. Immediately. Curt Widhalm 40:57 Absolutely. Katie Vernoy 40:59 Whether or not the client is in a high state of risk, whatever, the clinician must protect their own safety immediately. And I think clients should, should know that, that they this is what they can do to mitigate the risk for the clinician. And if that risk is not sufficiently reduced, or if there is a risk there that the clinician is not comfortable with adult in the session, and/or suggests an alternate location to have that session. Curt Widhalm 41:23 Because no matter how ineffective you may be, you will be more ineffective if you are dead or incapacitated. Katie Vernoy 41:36 True story. And along the lines of plans, I think it's also important to have whatever plans you know for you know, that you can have for handling known risks for me COVID precautions, I've definitely incorporated those into all of my informed consents. And so, if you are only doing home visits for folks who wear masks, or only have certain levels of vaccination status, or whatever, I think those things need to be very clear. I think that there's the plans around the uncertainty of the weather, backup plans, and then I think a big one that I think all of us have been playing around with our cancellation policies. I know that many of us have shifted our very stringent cancellation policies to basically say, if you're sick, do not come and see me in person. But I think other cancellation policies around rain, you know, or if it's raining, we will switch to video. If you've got a visitor, what are you going to do, I think being able to talk about ways that you can minimize the negative impact on the practice, because we are businesses, we need to be able to run and we need to make our money. But also that makes sense and that are clearly stated in your informed consent. Curt Widhalm 42:58 And one thing that I noticed with some of my clients that I was seeing outside of the office, is what you do when the time changes, and it gets dark way earlier and is... an appropriate place. So again, this all falls under that foreseeable consequences and adapting to them and documenting that these processes have happened all along. Katie Vernoy 43:23 Yeah, yeah. And I think all of that stuff is, is really important to be in the informed consent just to kind of run through just for for those of you who are taking notes, you want to make sure that they're aware of voluntary participation, that they're actually consenting for treatment. And actually, you may need collateral participation, consent for treatment. If you're doing stuff in home, if like a sibling or a fit parent or another family member is going to pop in time to time, making sure they know what they're opting into, health statements and potential plans around taking care of that, confidentiality and how to handle it, which we'll go into more detail on, clinician safety. Any plans for handling known risks. I think those are really important. There may be other things, but those all need to go into informed consent. And I think the question on this topic that I think, well, the first one was: Can people really know what they're opting into? And I think we've talked about Yes, I think we need to understand it and explain it to them. Yes. But you talked about kind of being left standing, the therapist, you know, kind of forlornly standing in the park by themselves and the client doesn't show up. And that's called passive termination. Right? The client just ghosts the therapist. Curt Widhalm 44:45 Yes, exactly. Katie Vernoy 44:46 But the interesting thing, and this was in the article around the homebound therapists or homebound clients where that if you were going to a client's home, they cannot passively terminate because: She just keeps showing up. I mean, I guess they could not answer the door. And I'm sure you had those. I've definitely had those long ago or they could not be there. But it's very hard, especially for someone who is completely homebound and cannot leave to passively terminate services. And is that, okay? Curt Widhalm 45:18 We have a responsibility as therapists to ensure that the services that we're providing are effective with our clients. And one of the best ways of doing that is talking with our clients about it. And well, the situation that you're describing may not allow for that passive opting out. There should be some sort of approach that therapists are taking to regularly evaluate how the treatment is going. For my feedback informed treatment listeners out there, this is already built into just about every session that you're doing things. But for those who aren't engaged in that, we do have the responsibility of coming back and evaluating how are we doing on our goals? How's our treatment plan looking? And that should be done with some regular sort of interval, whether it's time based, whether it's number of session based, that if we're aware that clients can't passively opt out of sessions, we should take on some of that responsibility of giving them more of an active opportunity to opt out of sessions. Katie Vernoy 46:37 Absolutely. And I think the other piece is also for us to continue to assess appropriateness, because another thing mentioned in there was that they may not want to terminate due to loneliness. And so we have a responsibility to make sure that treatment still necessary and that we're providing them with only the services that they need. And not just being a buddy that comes to see them every week. So moving on to bigger stuff. But that was kind of what needs to go what kind of the issues around informed consent. But now looking, I want to spend a little bit of time on confidentiality, as well as the potential for dual relationships. Because I think those are the big things. When we think about these types of services, I think those are the big things that are the big juicy things that we should be paying attention to. And starting with confidentiality, I think we cannot completely guarantee confidentiality, I don't think. But I think there's a lot of ways we can mitigate the risks. And so what are some of the things that come to mind when you think about confidentiality in either these public spaces or in someone's home? Curt Widhalm 47:45 So the biggest things, and again, looking at it from limiting your liability standpoint, is talking about the potential risks and benefits of what this is. And so the risks are other people can overhear what we're talking about, we might need to speak in a more coded way. And really talking about that the limit of confidentiality, much more fluid when it's outside of the office, and when it is inside the office, because there is just that potential of being overheard. Katie Vernoy 48:19 And I think what can compound that at home is that you might be overheard by the person that you're talking about. Or they may come in, or they may do the things, or you may want to introduce them, or there may be, you know, kind of a fluidity of them coming in and out of sessions. And so I think just being very clear on that, but I think as far as the cya elements of it, I think if they're going to be part of treatment, you do the collateral consent form. But I think making sure that if there are folks that are going to regularly be interacting, you want to get release forms. You can't obviously, you're not going to do that for the folks at the park, those people are just walking by. But like people in the home, you know, you may want to consider that. Curt Widhalm 49:00 Well, and it's also part of what we're talking about into, be specific about it. Is asking our clients how they would want us to handle those situations where there are other people in the house, or where we are walking by other people outside. Help the client be able to make their own informed decision of and take some ownership over those situations as well. Katie Vernoy 49:27 Absolutely. The big pieces outside, I think clients don't necessarily know and don't have the experience to think about how they want to handle it. Because it could be just let's, you know, we'll just pay attention. If somebody walks by maybe we either speak more in a more coded way or we break for a second and then pick back up once we pass these people or whatever. But I think if someone comes up to you or to your clients, people they know or people that know you, actually having the conversation is if someone comes up and talks to us, what are we going to say? You know, and I've heard you know, like, you can say this as a colleague, this is someone I work with. It can, it can be a lot of different things. Maybe it can be this as my babysitter, or this is my teacher, it could be this as my therapist, "Hey, meet my therapist." I mean, they get to decide. But I think if you have some ideas around how to manage that, then it can feel a little bit a little less daunting for them. Because I don't think that they necessarily immediately like, oh, yeah, I live in this community. And I'm walking around with my therapist. Oh. Oh, now I have to think about I don't think that's the first thing they think of when they commit to walk and talk therapy. Curt Widhalm 50:42 And I've noticed this kind of trend change. And again, I work with younger population teens. Earlier in my career, it was just kind of like, oh, I, I don't want to necessarily, you know, let people know that I'm getting help. And teens these days are just kind of like, you're basically shouting out like, "I'm with my therapists," like this, "You need help this guy's great." Like, I point this out that there has been kind of a lot of these principles and guidelines that were written when therapy was a lot more hidden in the shadows. And I think with a lot more emphasis on mental health, that it's still important for us to have these conversations. My experience and the experience of a lot of the colleagues that I know has been that it's less and less of a concer. We still need to ask the questions, but people aren't is shamed by it in the general population. I know that there's still some cultural considerations where still getting therapy, in some cultures is going to be a sign of mental illness. That's why we still ask, but the trends are pretty positive on this. Katie Vernoy 52:04 And I think that's very fair. And I think that there are going to be different things based on age differences, on what your role in the world is, I think some folks are fine saying that they're in therapy, but maybe not like "this as my therapist." And so I think, definitely ask, and I think the other element of this is, the confidentiality may be lost more passively. So it's not just somebody coming up to you, but maybe someone noticing that you and your therapist are walking the park every week at the same time, or you're coming to their home every week, you know, in your particular car with your particular, you know, kind of characteristics. And so it's something to consider, because people will be will need to be aware of the types of confidentiality that they're losing by having these types of services. But I'm sure that people that go into your building, most of the people sitting around and going like they're going to therapy, because like how many therapists are in that building? Like a bazillion. Curt Widhalm 53:09 Yeah. Katie Vernoy 53:10 And so people may lose confidentiality by going to their therapists office. And so I think the location thing I feel a little less concerned about, but I do think it is something to be aware of, and for clients to be aware of, as well. Curt Widhalm 53:26 And a lot of the confidentiality factors, as a reminder to our clinicians, and to any clients who are maybe hearing this is, confidentiality is only the strongest where you have the expectation of not being seen or heard by a third party. And our discussions up to this point are really that even in the waiting rooms of therapy offices, there's not an expectation of privacy there. So you know, your points of even walking into the building or or walking around, we can point out like, hey, there's not that guarantee of confidentiality, like if we were in my office. Katie Vernoy 54:11 Sure. I think the other thing and this is kind of a juicy question for us to dig into for a minute or two is boundaries versus confidentiality, and walk and talk maybe you're you're standing closer than the COVID guidelines were and that kind of stuff so you can keep close but really the one that I think is the toughest is if you're going into a client's home, they don't live alone. And I guess if they live alone, there's a whole other thing but the the option for meeting privately is in the client's bedroom. And I think that becomes very complex. It also speaks to the next one we're going to, the next section on dual relationships. But I think this is a really it's it depends for me on the client, sometimes it'll be a meeting with the client in their room, but with the door open, and we're talking quietly, so there's a little bit of space, sometimes it's I'm in the room with the door closed, you know, I think it really is client by client and the type of boundaries that need to be held. But I think there's a lot of a lot of risks that could be in this particular negotiation, because you're either like, hey, we have to be in a public space, and everyone can hear us, or we're in your bedroom and the door is closed. Curt Widhalm 55:27 And this is also got a whole lot of needing to negotiate things with clients, potentially with parents. And that is something where, you know, being in a child client's bedroom and doing play therapy on the floor, sounds a lot more reasonable. But being behind a closed door with the child's might also be something where their poses risks. So this is not just a matter of any one particular characteristic of a client. And it's something that you need to thoroughly evaluate every single time that you do it and take and document the proper precautions. Document people. Document. Katie Vernoy 56:12 Just document. And I think the other thing, if there are more than one private room, I think if you can be in a room with the door closed without a bed in it, I think that actually is quite helpful. I think it is a little strange sitting on a client's bed, if that's the only place to sit and you're with an adult client. It just it gets really complicated. And so I think being really aware of what the situation is, documenting it, and if you can't find a good space inside, maybe you just kind of, your head outside. But dual relationships: clearly do not have sex with your clients, there is no sex in professional therapy, or professional therapy does not include sex. That is obvious. That's one of the things about you don't sit on the client's bed, you don't even want to get close to that right. Or maybe you do but you document why it's okay to do that. But we've talked about this before, you also cannot become your clients friend, which can feel very easy if you're hanging out at the park, there's a nice breeze and you're, you know, shooting the breeze and or you're you're hanging out at their house, and they're serving you up a little bit of tea and crumpets. I don't know, there was a lot of British articles when we were reading this, but like, there is a lot of ways where we become very casual, and it can feel very much like a friendship if we don't watch out. And that's, that's potentially a very unhealthy and harmful dual relationship. Curt Widhalm 57:46 Yeah. And I see this from time to time. And it's really when the therapist stops holding the boundaries. It is not coming back to talking about therapeutic goals, it's relying a little bit too much on the personal shared experiences, rapport building in session, 78, that's, you know, already been well established. That makes it very hard for clients to be able to really differentiate what actual therapy is happening there. Katie Vernoy 58:27 As we've said before, not all dual relationships are problematic. Of course you don't, you cannot avoid all dual relationships. And in this case, you're going to have some dual relationships that you just have to make sure to navigate becoming their friend or having sex with them, No! But you will be a fellow travele, a
The Modern Therapist's Survival Guide with Curt Widhalm and Katie Vernoy
Do Therapists Curse in Session? Curt and Katie discuss a recent citation from the California Board of Behavioral Sciences (BBS) to a therapist for cursing while in session. We explore: Can therapists swear in session? Should they? Are there times when cursing is appropriate in session? Are therapists allowed to make errors without the fear of citation from their board? We explore these and more in this episode. In this podcast episode we talk about the ethics and responsibilities of cursing in session. After hearing about the citation for a clinician who had cursed in session, we wanted to explore what is acceptable related to using curse words in session. We know as therapists that what we say matters, and now more than ever our choice of language matters. Who is allowed to curse in the therapy room? We tackle this question in depth: Is swearing or cursing ever appropriate in session? Both Curt and Katie swear in session when appropriate Swearing in session can create a more authentic therapeutic rapport with some clients Sometimes clients will ask for permission to swear in session Follow the client's lead when it comes to their language in session, including cursing It is mostly important to reflect the client's language without judgement Clients might be looking for more humanity in their therapists Therapists are people; curses can slip out when therapists feel depleted and without resource Cursing based on your own humanity can cause therapeutic rupture and clinicians should be mindful of the therapeutic alliance and make repair attempts “The concept of professionalism has a fairly biased frame. It's something that's very specific to a specific culture… typically, white culture [suggests] I am professional if I don't curse… Even words that are considered curse words – sometimes there's such a morality around that and morals are culturally-bound” – Katie Vernoy What does the research show us about swearing? Some research suggests that cursing out loud decreases pain “Professional language” is often rooted in whiteness with a goal of excluding people of color When not accurately reflecting a client's language, you run the risk of editing them Swearing speech is primarily meant to convey connotative or emotional meaning with emphasis What do professional organizations say now about cursing in session? The BBS recently cited a therapist for swearing in session as unprofessional language Only one professional organization, The National Association of Social Workers, officially bars cursing in session – specifically derogatory language Swearing speech is primarily meant to convey connotative or emotional meaning with emphasis Therapists have a responsibility to make sure they are emotionally equipped to deal with clients Is there an ideal language for therapists to use? … I caution against blanket rules. – Curt Widhalm Slurs are never acceptable to use during session, especially when there are cultural differences between client and therapist Considerations related to expressing your humanity, using curse words, and the clients you see Ethically, we have guidelines of client beneficence and avoiding maleficence, meaning don't harm the client Technically cursing is allowed, but only with reason and while remembering that some folks are litigious Our Generous Sponsor for this episode of the Modern Therapist's Survival Guide: Dr. Tequilla Hill The practice of psychotherapy is unique, creative, and multifaceted. However, combining a more demanding schedule and handling our own pandemic related stresses can give rise to experiencing compassion, fatigue, and the dreaded burnout. Unfortunately, many therapists struggle silently with prioritizing their own wellness across their professional journey. If you are tired of going in and out of the burnout cycle and you desire to optimize your wellness, Dr. Tequilla Hill a mindful entrepreneur, yoga, and somatic meditation teacher has curated How to Stay Well While you Work Therapist Wellness Guide to support providers that are struggling to manage your own self care. Subscribe to Dr. Hill's Stay Well While You Work! Therapist Wellness Guide and you can find many of the inspiring offerings from Dr. Hill's 17 years as a practice leader, supervisor, mentor, human systems consultant and wellness enthusiast. Support The Modern Therapist's Survival Guide on Patreon! If you love our content and would like to bring the conversations deeper, please support us on our Patreon. For as little as $2 per month we're able to bring you more content, exclusive offerings, and more opportunities to engage in our growing modern therapist community. These contributions help us to expand our offerings for continuing education events and a whole lot more. If you don't think you can make a monthly contribution – no worries – we also have a buy me a coffee profile for one time donations support us at whatever level you can today it really helps us out. You can find us at patreon.com/mtsgpodcast or buymeacoffee.com/moderntherapist. Thanks everyone. Resources for Modern Therapists mentioned in this Podcast Episode: We've pulled together resources mentioned in this episode and put together some handy-dandy links. Please note that some of the links below may be affiliate links, so if you purchase after clicking below, we may get a little bit of cash in our pockets. We thank you in advance! The Case for Cursing Client's Experiences and Perceptions of the Therapist's use of Swear Words and the Resulting Impact on the Therapeutic Alliance in the Context of the Therapeutic Relationship by HollyAnne Giffin Swearing as a Response to Pain: Assessing Hypoalgesic Effects of Novel “Swear” Words by Richard Stephens and Olly Robertson Relevant Citations in the MTSG Podcast: Stephens, R., & Clatworthy, A. (2006). Does swearing have an analgesic effect? Poster presentation at the British Psychological Society Psychobiology Section Annual Conference, 18 20 September 2006, Windermere Stephens, R. (2013). Swearing-The language of life and death. The Psychologist, 26(9). Retrieved from https://thepsychologist.bps.org.uk/volume-26/edition-9/swearing-language-life-and-death Relevant Episodes of MTSG Podcast: CAMFT Ethics Code Updates When Clients Have to Manage Their Therapists The Return of Why Therapists Quit Impaired Therapists Who we are: Curt Widhalm, LMFT Curt Widhalm is in private practice in the Los Angeles area. He is the cofounder of the Therapy Reimagined conference, an Adjunct Professor at Pepperdine University and CSUN, a former Subject Matter Expert for the California Board of Behavioral Sciences, former CFO of the California Association of Marriage and Family Therapists, and a loving husband and father. He is 1/2 great person, 1/2 provocateur, and 1/2 geek, in that order. He dabbles in the dark art of making "dad jokes" and usually has a half-empty cup of coffee somewhere nearby. Learn more at: www.curtwidhalm.com Katie Vernoy, LMFT Katie Vernoy is a Licensed Marriage and Family Therapist, coach, and consultant supporting leaders, visionaries, executives, and helping professionals to create sustainable careers. Katie, with Curt, has developed workshops and a conference, Therapy Reimagined, to support therapists navigating through the modern challenges of this profession. Katie is also a former President of the California Association of Marriage and Family Therapists. In her spare time, Katie is secretly siphoning off Curt's youthful energy, so that she can take over the world. Learn more at: www.katievernoy.com A Quick Note: Our opinions are our own. We are only speaking for ourselves – except when we speak for each other, or over each other. We're working on it. Our guests are also only speaking for themselves and have their own opinions. We aren't trying to take their voice, and no one speaks for us either. Mostly because they don't want to, but hey. Stay in Touch with Curt, Katie, and the whole Therapy Reimagined #TherapyMovement: Patreon Buy Me A Coffee Podcast Homepage Therapy Reimagined Homepage Facebook Twitter Instagram YouTube Consultation services with Curt Widhalm or Katie Vernoy: The Fifty-Minute Hour Connect with the Modern Therapist Community: Our Facebook Group – The Modern Therapists Group Modern Therapist's Survival Guide Creative Credits: Voice Over by DW McCann https://www.facebook.com/McCannDW/ Music by Crystal Grooms Mangano http://www.crystalmangano.com/ Transcript for this episode of the Modern Therapist's Survival Guide podcast (Autogenerated): Curt Widhalm 00:00 This episode of the Modern Therapist Survival Guide is brought to you by Dr. Tequilla Hill. Katie Vernoy 00:05 The practice of psychotherapy is unique, creative and multifaceted. However, combining a more demanding schedule and handling our own pandemic related stresses can give rise to experiencing compassion, fatigue, and the dreaded burnout. Unfortunately, many therapists struggle silently with prioritizing their own wellness across their professional journey. Curt Widhalm 00:26 Dr. Tequilla Hill a mindful entrepreneur yoga and somatic meditation teacher has curated how to stay well while you work therapist wellness guide to support providers that are struggling to manage your own self care. Stay tuned at the end of the episode to learn more. Katie Vernoy 00:42 Hey everyone, before we get started with the episode, Curt and I wanted to make sure you were aware that we have opportunities for you to support us for as little as $2 a month. Curt Widhalm 00:51 Whether you want to make that a monthly contribution at Patreon.com/mtsgpodcast or a one time donation over at buymeacoffee.com/moderntherapist. Every donation helps us out and continues to help us bring great content to you. Listen at the end of the episode for more information. Announcer 01:14 You're listening to the Modern Therapist Survival Guide where therapists live, breathe and practice as human beings. To support you as a whole person and a therapist, here are your hosts, Curt Widhalm and Katie Vernoy. Curt Widhalm 01:28 Welcome back modern therapists. This is the Modern Therapist Survival Guide. I'm Curt Widhalm, with Katie Vernoy. And this is the podcast for therapists about things that we do things that show up in therapy things that are happening in our profession. And today's episode started with looking at a citation that was issued by the California Board of Behavioral Sciences to a therapist, this is public information, we're not going to name names. But this is part one of a two part episode. Katie Vernoy 02:05 Oh at least two parts. Curt Widhalm 02:08 Part, episode one, at least two parts dealing with this particular citation. And if you know us that we can dive deeply into the strangest of things. But this is an important one in looking at the way that licensing boards are evaluating things. And this has some potential ramifications throughout the rest of our profession. If you're not in California, your board may come after you one day too. So listen, listen to these because this does have some ramifications across our profession. Now, very, very broadly, not getting into a ton of details. If you want to peruse, you can probably pull this up, we're not going to link this one for you. But very, very broadly, therapist was doing reunification therapy with a parent and children. And my understanding of reading through the citation is that the therapist used a curse word in session. A little bit of perspective in having done some reunification therapy before. There's a lot of dynamics at play with the parent who's not in the room. But there does not seem to be any disagreement that a curse word was used. The disagreement seems to be how the curse word was used. And this particular case, one of the children in the room felt that the therapist was calling the child the curse word, the parent who was in the room and the therapist will say that the therapist was using the word to describe the child's behavior. The California Board of Behavioral Sciences in their citation said that this is unprofessional conduct. And this among some other things that we will explore in this episode and next week's episode are going to be why we're talking so deeply about this. But Katie, do you curse in session? Katie Vernoy 04:18 We'll share Yeah, Yeah, fuck yeah. Christian session. I don't always, I don't always, and I don't with every client, but I think there's so many different elements to cursing in session. And obviously this one's going to get one of those explicit marks and so maybe we should have put a warning we already put it on the episode but if you don't like cursing turn it the fuck off. Curt Widhalm 04:46 Put a little parental advisory label on the show graphic for this episode. But Katie Vernoy 04:53 I mean, I'm actually cursing more than I would normally for a fact obviously but I think it's something where the elements that we need to look at are, is it unprofessional conduct? Can we be human beings? And is there an reason that it would might be more effective clinically, or times it might be really harmful clinically, like I think there's there's a lot of different elements to this. So. Curt Widhalm 05:17 So I think anecdotally, a lot of us who work in the fields tend to take an approach of well adopt the kind of language that a client is using, and oftentimes following their leads, and particularly in working with teenagers a lot. In my practice, I'll get the question of, Can I curse them here? Usually, after they've said a curse word, right? Katie Vernoy 05:40 Yes, same adults, though, in my case. Curt Widhalm 05:44 And oftentimes I, I will say, this is your space. And if this is something that helps you to be able to express yourself, well, go ahead and do it. And I may, you know, reflect back their language, it may give me a little bit of, you know, more genuine approach and letting down some of my professionalism a little bit in order to help clients feel that I'm connecting with them on their level. And for many of the therapists that I talked about, we tend to take this kind of an approach that, particularly when we're working with communities that have maybe had some issues with the way that therapists come across too professionally, that there's a lot of power in the language of using curse words, that helps to show that alright, as therapists, if we can meet with them on the level and the way that they express themselves, that it helps to build more of a real relationship. And I've seen this back when I was working and agency work working in substance abuse, homeless populations, that it did just kind of help give me a little bit more of a response of clients thinking that I'm authentic. I imagine that you had some similar experiences in DMH yourself? Katie Vernoy 07:00 Sure. I mean, I think there's there's a few things that you said that kind of struck me and I don't know if it's worth, you know, talking about but I think there's using the client's language and you said, kind of meeting them at their level? And I don't know exactly, if that's saying like, one form of language is better than an other and, and for me, I think I don't think that's what you were trying to say. But I think for me, it's more kind of embodying the space and using the language with them without a judgement there, but Curt Widhalm 07:33 And it wasn't intended as placing anything as far as being higher or lower level. I mean, if, if I have a three year old in session that we're going to talk on, you know, our hands as phones in order to convey messages, I'm going to meet with them on their level. So this is just kind of being able to match client characteristics. Katie Vernoy 07:54 Sure. Okay. I think the other element that you're talking about really is authenticity. And for me, I want curse words to be used in session where it feels authentic to do so. And potentially as a connecting mechanism, but I think, just using curse words, because your client does, I don't think it's going to fly. So So I think, a couple of things there. I don't know if they're relevant, but, but to answer your question, I think the more important element of this is, knowing your client well, and really reflecting their language without assumption. I know a mistake that I had made more than once, and I realized it as I was doing it, is that I assumed that the client cursed and I was wrong. And I'd used a curse word I saw their eyebrows kind of go up. And it was something where I felt it was to reflect the gravity of what I've experiencing, like, oh, fuck, you know, or Wow, that was really shitty. You know, like, I've I've used those expressions, because that's how I talk and other arenas. But when I saw the client's eyebrows go up, I was like, Oh, wait, I'm tracking back. And although they're a person who is not a formal person, they seem to be, you know, kind of casual and how they speak. It still wasn't a word that was appropriate for them. And so to me, I feel like I, I have since moved to a place of cursing as little as possible, unless I really know like, meaning zero, unless I know the client very well. And we've had those exchanges and I've definitely heard them curse, which not everybody does, because some people see it as more of a kind of formal environment that we're sitting in. But I especially had to kind of assess this when I was working with the teen boys on probation. I mean, that was a whole different, you know, kind of way to connect with folks around language and perspective. And so I think, a blanket statement of never curse or curse whenever you want. I think obviously, that's not what we're here to say. Curt Widhalm 10:04 When I first read this citation, I did a little bit of a self study on myself of just keeping track of the number of sessions that I had in the following days, right? Use a curse word, and it came to about 60% of my sessions. Katie Vernoy 10:22 You definitely work with teens. Curt Widhalm 10:24 I work with teens, I work with parents, I work with a number of different clients that our relationship has established. And I don't consider myself somebody who curses frequently in my day to day life. Katie Vernoy 10:40 So you curse more in session than in your day to day life, Curt Widhalm 10:43 Probably. I mean, I haven't done this kind of data tracking on my personal life, maybe I should just for comparison sake, but in observing myself, I did the follow up question of who? Why am I person care, and it fell into a couple of different categories. One was to really kind of ask clients to expand on things like, you know, if a client says, like, I'm feeling like shit today, where that's gonna make me feel shitty, like, Oh, why do you think that that's going to make you feel shitty, you know, just kind of echoing their language, family sessions are my favorites of when, especially with very young children, I'm talking, you know, those kids under the age of six, maybe preschoolers that are using curse words, and parents are trying to correct it, of, you know, talking about parents using the language in front of their children and how that's reinforcing to them. Yeah, and finding alternatives. And then there are those times where there's just kind of the emphasizing a point with clients that I've already had an established relationship with where this is being used, being able to just kind of help them maybe recognize a particular moment in session, as far as here's an emphasis on this. But in my, you know, data of like, one week of looking at this, these were all clients that had been the first to swear in sessions. Katie Vernoy 12:16 Mm hmm. Curt Widhalm 12:17 And I think I kind of follow you and and many others in our field that we don't lead with this, and I don't think clients necessarily, overall want us to lead with this. There's a couple of older articles, I'm talking 10 plus years old now, that kind of look at the role of therapists swearing in session, very, very minutely. And seems to be from time to in our fields when there really was a lot more of this elevated professionalism expected of psychologists, therapists, social workers, etc. But I think you know, really, overall, with the old man shaking, his fist, decaying morals of our society, where cursing seems to be a lot more prevalent. I think in the last 10 years, this has been something where either we're more readily admitting it or our clients are actually looking for more of that humanity out of the professionals who serve in these roles. Katie Vernoy 13:16 And when you were talking the the concept of professionalism has a fairly biased frame. It's something that's very specific to a specific culture I'm in typically, white culture is more in the like, I am professional if I don't curse, I think even words that are considered curse words. Sometimes there's such a morality around that and, and morals are culturally bound to that. I feel like if we were to never curse, and if we don't curse personally, I don't, you know, like, you don't have to bust out a curse word if you don't if you never curse, but like for those of us who that's part of our communication. I think it is interesting that our profession and a professional body would say, hey, that is unprofessional behavior, when in fact, it may be the most connecting thing we can do. Like I said, I've I've made mistakes and curse when I shouldn't with clients that don't curse and I recognized it in the moment. But to me, there's using it thoughtfully. And then there's also just being who you are and talking how you talk, and having the clients that match with you. I mean, there are folks who just that's how they talk and should they be required as therapists to completely remove all cursing from their vocabulary. Curt Widhalm 14:48 You bring up the professional organizations, and there's one professional organization who puts it in their ethics codes and This is the National Association of Social Workers, their standard 1.12 or one point 12, derogatory language, social workers should not use derogatory language in their written verbal or electronic communications, to or about clients. Social workers should use accurate and respectful language in all communications to and about clients. Katie Vernoy 15:24 So it's, it's implying that cursing is de facto disrespectful. Curt Widhalm 15:30 I think that in any ethics code, there's room for interpretation here, but this one is specifically talking about the language that gets used and says, Katie Vernoy 15:41 It says derogatory language, I guess. So like that is that's where the interpretation is that you're talking about. Curt Widhalm 15:46 Right. Which then kind of leads to the question of who gets to decide what words mean, you know, this is a intention versus impact sort of conversation, because I can think of a million ways to not use curse words and still speak derogatorily about somebody? Sure, you know, and I can think of ways where clients may even be offended for not utilizing the kind of language that they incorporate into their world. Whether that includes curse words or not. Katie Vernoy 16:24 Yeah, I just think if you were to, to when somebody says I'm feeling really shitty today, like, you could come back and say, Well, what do you think is gonna make you feel that way? But if you were like, so what makes you feel like poop today? Like, I think it would just be funny. But secondly, it's, it's, it's editing them? Curt Widhalm 16:46 Well, Katie Vernoy 16:46 in the reframe. Curt Widhalm 16:47 I have, I have worked in environments before where clients readily use this kind of language all the time, but have had co workers who would try and kind of calm things down and be like, Can Can we not use that language here? Can we use something more respectful and those kinds of coworkers didn't last long in those environments? Yeah, some of looking at this is also looking at some of the neurological research that has come out in the last 10 or so years about the effectiveness of using curse words, as a way of relieving pain. Oh, interesting. And we'll put some citations, at least in the show notes. Not necessarily going to find all of the source articles he re for people but, Katie Vernoy 17:44 But we're gonna say we're gonna have citations never fear, you'll be able to find it. Curt Widhalm 17:48 We're gonna have some citations here. But the use of curse words has allowed for people being subjected to physical pain to report on a subjective units of distress, less pain being felt when they're allowed to curse. And this was also replicated in a Mythbusters episodes that so I mean, if Katie Vernoy 18:14 It has to be true, it's very true. Curt Widhalm 18:19 The question really becomes, is cursing allowed or not. And this is where we get into these weird, like, can we create blanket rules for our profession? I'm not going to be like leading cursing with my clients. Katie Vernoy 18:36 No, Curt Widhalm 18:37 Especially, you know, children. Katie Vernoy 18:42 Yeah, I think probably the parents would not be pleased if you taught your child, your child clients to curse. Curt Widhalm 18:50 And part of this is going to be based on your theoretical orientation. You know, if part of what your family therapy is is working on creating structure around appropriate language in the household, and kids are going to be cursing or not, or if that's something that parents are trying to move their kids away from, inevitably, you're going to have to at least document that you're working on. Katie Vernoy 19:14 Yeah, yeah, I agree. I think that there, there are clinical reasons, whether it's part of the joining and the relationship, whether it's authenticity, whether it's specific things you're working on. I think there are reasons to thoughtfully engage in cursing and session. You know, because I think otherwise, it is really just about humanity. I mean, to me in reading that citation, I'm not clear so it could have been that the the clinician was speaking about behavior, reflecting back language from the family. And it could have been thoughtful, thoughtful use, but I'm curious having worked in a lot of these types of situations where there's reunification, or DCFS involvement, or probation involvement, where there's families that are under a lot of stress, they're being mandated to treatment, there are a lot of things going on. And those families righteously can be challenging for a clinician to work with. And it can be very, very overwhelming. And so to me, I'm thinking, was this a clinical choice? I'm reflecting the language, I'm being authentic, or was it a, I am at my last my wit's end and holy fuck I am done for the day. And so it was not thoughtful, it was humanity. And the question I posed to you, dear sir, is if we curse in session, because of our humanity, is that okay? Curt Widhalm 20:51 So a couple of the articles that are out there, one of the people who has looked into this a little bit more than some others is Timothy J. 2008. Article from J. And Janowitz, says that, in contrast to most other speech, swearing is primarily meant to convey connotative or emotional meaning. In other words, that, you know, a word like shit does not usually necessarily literally mean a pile of feces, it means that there is some sort of emphasis to it based on the context of the language. Yeah, I think that, on that point of, it's about the emphasis of it. Speaking from a position of reality, what you're asking is, is there an ideal language for therapists to use? Hmm. And, again, I cautioned against blanket rules, because there may be polite society that does find it extremely offensive, you know, one of the very weird things about our field is that you may be, you know, talking into your hand as a mock cellular phone with a child in one session. And then your next session, maybe exploring the BDSM desires of somebody who's exploring their sexuality, then rules, even from one session to the next may be impossible to create a absolute value, let alone a strict rule of what ideal language that you can use. It's a very fancy way of saying it depends. Katie Vernoy 22:36 Well, I'm hearing a whole bunch of it depends. But I think there's that additional element of, if I've, I'm at the end of my resources, I'm exhausted and something is thrown at me in session that I normally could catch, and I don't. And I basically start being a human in the moment, because I have no more resources left is that worthy of a, of a disciplinary action, Curt Widhalm 23:07 we do have a responsibility to put ourselves in the best position to take care of our clients. And, you know, I can imagine and I've had frustrating sessions over my career that have stirred up emotional reactions in sessions and working through in subsequent sessions or subsequent communications with clients or former clients that there is a ownership of some of that humanity, some people are going to be litigious. Some people are going to file complaints, you know, if I'm going to draw a line on this, you know, not everybody is going to want their therapist to curse. Some people are going to think it's the best fucking thing that's ever happened. But I think that there is probably an absolute line. And even this line is kind of gray in and of itself. But I think that there is a line that is probably the intention of that NASW code, which is where the use of slurs come in. And especially if there's cultural differences between the therapist and the client that, you know, if I have a client who's expressing, hey, I got called the N word down on the streets and is actually using the pejorative language. They're even in all of my trying to connect with a client's me as a very white therapist. I'm staying away from reflecting that word to them. But I think that you know, in any of the expressions that we have, that being very careful about not using slurs is probably a line that we all definitely need to be aware of where that is, and follow that one Katie Vernoy 24:58 To me taking what you're saying and adding my own thoughts to it is really having common sense and making sure that we have sufficient resources available to either remain appropriate and not become offensive to our clients, if at all possible. I think the other element of it is kind of this common decency and respect. I think if one of my first jobs out of college was working in a group home with kids who had been removed from their parents homes or their caregivers homes, and I was carrying a child, I was working as a childcare worker, not as a therapist, and I was carrying one of the children and hit a pothole in the road, sprained my ankle and went down with the kid. Even in that moment, when I'm in excruciating pain, and the kid is crying because they fell with me, I did not drop the kid, I felt very proud of myself, I was much younger than I would drop them now. I didn't curse. Maybe I would have felt less pain. If I did. It sounds like from the study. But I did it because I was aware, I have a kid with me. And there's enough of a filter for me that I wasn't going to immediately go to "fuck". So in sessions, having that much left that much kind of super ego or that much kind of observer, mindfulness, whatever works for you. But having that much to say, even if I'm in a bad spot, let me first excuse myself, rather than get to a place where I'm cursing without it making much sense, clinically, I think is our responsibility. Curt Widhalm 26:57 Sure. I think that overall, what we're talking about here is trying to make a case that cursings allowed. And I think that we've at least done a good enough job to say that we shouldn't disallow it. But there's probably got to be some reasons for, hey, here's why you don't. I mean, obviously, this citation that we're referring to, as far as the basis of this episode is necessary that at least in some cases, you shouldn't, Katie Vernoy 27:28 I think that the know your audience is really important. We've said that throughout. But I think it's also understand the impact of your words. The thing that I grapple with, and I don't know if this is something maybe you grapple with as well is that even when we're feeling especially human, and embodied as a therapist, there is still a power differential. And there still is an expectation that we will show up in a certain way. And I think not showing up in that way, shouldn't be taken lightly. There have been times when my humanity has come through, and I've had ruptures that were not repaired, and clients that left treatment, you know, that frequently, but that has happened, I've had clients who, fortunately have been able to say, hey, and it wasn't necessarily about cursing, but more that kind of humanity piece. But I, I expect it would also happen with cursing. But clients who would come to me and say, You were weird in that session with me what happened there, and then being able to talk about what was happening behind the scenes. But I think there may be clients who have trauma histories around certain ways that people speak, there may be things that you would need to know before you really dig into or become, I think, to free and how you express yourself in your own humanity. I think there's, I think there's times when having curse words in your vocabulary could be a hindrance to you in connecting with clients and keeping the environment safe for them. Curt Widhalm 29:07 What you're talking about is our ethical guidelines of client beneficence and avoiding maleficence. That what we do is for the benefit of clients, and we don't do the things that harm clients, and the history of, you know, polite society, using proper language has been proven to often been an exclusionary way of keeping diversity out of professional roles. And this has existed and today, and I think that, you know, there's always the default to remaining in this classical professionalism that is the guidance to avoiding that maleficence. When in doubt, be safe. Katie Vernoy 30:03 Yes. Curt Widhalm 30:05 But when clients curse first fuck yeah, we're gonna do it. Katie Vernoy 30:08 Shit. Curt Widhalm 30:13 We will link to some articles here in the show notes you can find those at mtsgpodcast.com. One piece that we didn't really highlight in the, in the middle of the show that I think is worth pointing out is a master's thesis dissertation from Holly Anne Giffen from 2016. That served as the basis for us finding some of these other articles. We will include a link to that in our show notes to find those at mtsgpodcast.com. And follow us on our social media and join our Facebook group, the modern therapist group and until next time, I'm Curt Wildhalm with Katie Vernoy. Katie Vernoy 30:56 Thanks again to our sponsor, Dr. Tequilla Hill therapist. Curt Widhalm 31:00 If you are tired of going in and out of the burnout cycle and you desire to optimize your wellness, Dr. Tequilla Hill has created and curated a wellness guide specifically with deep compassion for the dynamic personhood of the psychotherapist. Subscribe to Dr. Hills offerings at Bitly forward slash stay well guide that's BIT dot L y forward slash StayWell guides and you can find many of the inspiring offerings from Dr. Hill 17 years as a practice leader, supervisor, mentor, human systems consultant and wellness enthusiast. Katie Vernoy 31:37 Once again subscribe to Dr. Tequila Hills how to stay well while you work therapists wellness guide at Bitly forward slash stay well guide Curt Widhalm 31:47 Hey everyone, Kurt and Katie here. If you love our content and would like to bring the conversations deeper, please support us on our Patreon. For as little as $2 per month we're able to bring you more content, exclusive offerings and more opportunities to engage in our growing modern therapist community. These contributions help us to expand our offerings for continuing education events and a whole lot more. Katie Vernoy 32:10 If you don't think you can make a monthly contribution no worries we also have a buy me a coffee profile for one time donations support us at whatever level you can today it really helps us out. You can find us@patreon.com Ford slash MTS G podcast or buy me a coffee.com Ford slash modern therapist. Thanks everyone. Announcer 32:32 Thank you for listening to the modern therapist Survival Guide. Learn more about who we are and what we do at MTS g podcast.com. You can also join us on Facebook and Twitter. And please don't forget to subscribe so you don't miss any of our episodes.
Georgia King returns! Georgia who initially joined me on episode 420 is a therapist who specializes in providing mental health evaluations for immigration legal cases.In 2017, she founded The Immigration Evaluation Training Center, through which she has taught hundreds of therapists around the country to provide effective immigration evaluations and create thriving businesses.Georgia has been a guest speaker at Georgetown Law School, the Smith College School for Social Work, and numerous chapters of NASW and the American Association of Marriage and Family Therapists.She can be reached through her website www.TherapistImmigrationTraining.com In This Episode Georgia's website Georgia's Immigration Evaluation WorkshopsSupport this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/the-trauma-therapist-podcast-with-guy-macpherson-phd-inspiring-interviews-with-thought-leaders-in-the-field-of-trauma/exclusive-contentThis show is part of the Spreaker Prime Network, if you are interested in advertising on this podcast, contact us at https://www.spreaker.com/show/5739761/advertisement
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