Podcasts about Torquay

Walking the Fairways segment of The Golfing Greenkeeper Podcast is proudly brought to you by ⁠⁠⁠Colin Campbell Chemicals⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ www.campbellchemicals.com.au and ⁠⁠⁠Dint Golf Solutions⁠⁠⁠⁠ www.dint.com.auThis episode of Walking the Fairways has news from a number of smaller golf courses and clubs from around Australia for a change. Once again I have a new guest joining me on this episode and this time it is Superintendent Keegan Powell of The Sands Torquay, Victoria. It's great to have Keegan on giving everyone an update as to just what they've been doing to improve the golf course in certain areas along with making it more playable and enjoyable for more people.If any of the discussions in this podcast raised concerns with your mental health you can contact:Lifeline (Australia): 13 11 14 or visit ⁠⁠⁠www.lifeline.org.au⁠⁠⁠Beyond Blue (Australia): 1300 224 636 or visit ⁠⁠⁠www.beyondblue.org.au⁠⁠⁠MensLine Australia: 1300 789 978 or visit ⁠⁠⁠mensline.org.auYou hit 'em clean and we'll keep 'em green!⁠The Golfing Greenkeeper - Instagram⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠The Golfing Greenkeeper - Facebook⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠The Golfing Greenkeeper TV - YouTube⁠⁠⁠Send me an email to - thegolfinggreenkeeper@gmail.comPeople and places mentioned in this podcast:⁠⁠Colin Campbell Chemicals - Facebook⁠⁠⁠⁠Colin Campbell Chemicals: Behind the Turf Podcast - Spotify⁠⁠⁠⁠Colin Campbell Chemicals: Behind the Turf Podcast - Apple⁠⁠Dint Golf Solutions - ⁠⁠Instagram⁠⁠ & ⁠⁠Facebook⁠⁠NSW STA Apprentice Day ASTMA Conference 2025⁠⁠⁠ASTMA Turf Trade Show RegistrationThe Dirty Dozen - Instagram⁠⁠The Dirty Dozen - FacebookKingston SE Golf ClubMaylands Golf CoursePeregian Springs Golf ClubHervey Bay Golf ClubThe Ridge Golf CourseRussell Vale Golf ClubThe Vintage Golf ClubLeura Golf ClubNorth West Bay Golf ClubThe Sands TorquayEast Geelong Golf ClubMt Derrimut Golf & Community ClubShepparton Golf Club

Devoncast finds out about new police powers across Tavistock and Okehampton to stamp out anti-social behaviour. We hear the latest on how Plymouth is tackling violence against women and girls. The campaign to save an Exeter swimming pools heats up and we go down to the harbourside in Torquay for a special D-Day commemoration and to welcome in a Spanish sailing ship. Plus a West Devon councillor wants more active travel routes in rural areas so children can get to school safely. It's all in the latest edition of Devoncast, from Radio Exe and the Local Democracy Reporting Service.

Mrs Christie went to Washington, and Dr Aldridge and Mr Brown are following suit! This episode, we get the train to Washington DC to uncover the truth about how an American Christie fan would REALLY have experienced a Swinging Christie…A handful of tickets are still available⁠ for our first ever live episode recording in Torquay this September as part of the International Agatha Christie Festival 2025!You can find us on Instagram ⁠@Christie_Time⁠. We are also on Bluesky at ⁠christietime.bsky.social⁠.Please subscribe to us, and  rate and review us on your podcatcher of choice.Our website is ⁠ChristieTime.com⁠.The Swinging Christies is a Christie Time project by Mark Aldridge and Gray Robert Brown.Next episode: we look at Agatha Christie alongside a contemporary - Shirley Jackson!00:00:00 - Opening titles00:00:43 - Introductory chat00:01:44 - Agatha, Washington and America in the 1960s, down the Mall 00:09:41 - Discoveries in the Library of Congress00:43:37 - Wrap up, the National Museum of African American History and Culture00:47:24 - Next episode, how to get in touch00:49:09 - Closing titles00:49:36 - Coda

The new Devoncast covers the biggest stories across the county. In Torbay, the parents of deaf children are angry at council plans to change the way schools cater for them, while in the House of Commons the local bus service gets a rough ride. Winemakers in East Devon are celebrating their success and there's news of a crackdown on rural crime. A long-running planning battle at Ottery St Mary has finally come to an end and an important wildlife haven in Totnes has been opened up to the public. Plus, Doctor Frank N. Furter - alias actor Adam Strong - tells us what we can expect when the Rocky Horror Show rolls into Torquay. It's all in the latest edition of Devoncast, from Radio Exe and the Local Democracy Reporting Service.

Mark and Gray take Manhattan in the first in this very special miniseries recorded in the USA. In New York, Gray and Mark discuss Agatha's 1960s connections to America, plus their discoveries in papers held at the Princeton University Archive.A handful of tickets are still available for our first ever live episode recording in Torquay this September as part of the International Agatha Christie Festival 2025!You can find us on Instagram @Christie_Time. We are also on Bluesky at christietime.bsky.social. Please subscribe to us, and  rate and review us on your podcatcher of choice.Our website is ChristieTime.com.The Swinging Christies is a Christie Time project by Mark Aldridge and Gray Robert Brown.Next episode: Part 2 of Swinging USA - we go to Washington DC!00:00:00 - Opening titles00:00:40 - Introductory chat at Heathrow airport00:03:57 - Agatha and America in the 1960s at Central Park00:32:38 - Discoveries in the Princeton Archive00:55:49 - Wrap up, Schubert Archive, and off to Washington DC!00:58:30 - How to get in touch00:59:41 - Closing titles01:00:12 - CodaSolutions revealed! - Cat Among the Pigeons, The Clocks, The Pale Horse, At Bertram's Hotel

Join Simon, Matty, Clive, Joe, Chris and Matt to round up the season, with much nonsense!

David, Jon and Alfie welcome Charlie Baker back onto the pod with welcome arms. Noway are we going to snigger at Torquay's failure to get promoted. And if you'd like to support the pod and receive episodes early be part of a super little community then sign up to Patreon.com/davidearl thanks! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

In this episode, I had the good fortune of speaking with Tina Tainui. Around here, she's best known as a yoga teacher and founder of OurSpace Yoga in Torquay… but no no no—Tina is so much more than that. She's a serious force of nature with a hell of a story to tell. Originally from New Zealand and raised in the school of hard knocks (seriously!), Tina's life took a sharp turn thanks to a chance encounter with a stranger—maybe even a guardian angel, depending on how you look at it. That moment gave her the courage to get out of her situation and go live, really live, and experience the world. And that's exactly what she did. She's been everywhere, man—Rubbing shoulders, cutting hair, and partying with some of the great artists and cultural trailblazers of our time. Without giving too much away… I hope you enjoy our chat. Thanks, Tina.

A packed new Devoncast talks to the people making the news across the county this week. The organisers of Exeter Pride explain how a new addition to the programme will make it even more inclusive, and Plymouth's welcoming city champion reflects on progress made since the anti-immigration riots of last summer. The secretary of Devon County Show outlines some of the highlights on this year's programme and in Torbay we go behind the scaffolding to hear what's going on inside Torquay's Pavilion. There's a look at the county's dentistry crisis, and news of a protest aimed at defending one of Devon's most significant wildlife sites.

Join Stephen, Joe, Clive, Kirsty, Chris and Matt rounding up the Hemel Hempstead game, some of the NLS play-off action and looking ahead to Torquay's game on Saturday against Boreham.

Patsy swears she spotted Ryan Gosling at Torquay over the break, can anyone confirm or deny?See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Join Simon, and Kirsty (with some additions from Stephen and Chris) rounding up their thoughts on the easter fixtures against Truro and Weymouth, before looking ahead to the last game of the season (or is it?) against Hemel.

Billabong, Sun Bum, Stone and Wood Presents.... ATS LIVE in TORQUAY with RCJ, MASE and ETHAN HEEEEEEYEEEEEEWING!!!!!! Saddle up for one of the greatest big wave rip-ins as Ross Clarke-Jones and Mason Ho relive the past Hawaiian winter including wild yarns from the 2024 Eddie! With a special first time appearance by the great rail shaman himself Ethan Heeeeeeeeyeeeeeeewing! See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Someone's gotta clonk that thing around. In this episode, Stace recaps El Salvador with Holden TRNKA and then chats all things Torquay with former Top 5 surfer and current lord Morgan Cibilic.

Join Simon, Clive, Matty and Chris for a review of the win against Slough and a look ahead to the Easter double header against Truro and Weymouth. There's also some idle speculation about away trips that could be in store for next season.

Today on the Horses Mouth, I was joined by Dr Harley Mackenzie — a long-time Torquay local, leader in the energy sector, and a passionate advocate for reform. Dr Mackenzie has just announced he's running for the federal seat of Corangamite, representing the Legalise Cannabis Party. His campaign isn't just about changing laws — it's about health, personal freedom, and bringing some much-needed common sense to the national conversation on cannabis. As he puts it: “The war on drugs has failed. It's time for a smarter approach.” www.legalisecannabis.org.au I hope you enjoy our chat     

Join Matt and Joe, rounding up a defeat at the hands of Chesham, before looking ahead to Slough.

Join Matty, Clive and Chris as they discuss the men's team's win over Aveley and look ahead to this Saturday's game against Chesham. There's also a review of the women's team's big win at Plainmoor and the inaugural game of TUFC Lingo.

Join Simon and Kirsty discussing the recent Bath game, before looking ahead to Aveley on Saturday.

Rob and Dickie are joined by Trevor Knell, Barnet fan and host of the Trev Talks and the Sussex Non League Football Podcasts to talk all things National League Christian James gives his thoughts on a disappointing day for Boston at Hartlepool, Joe is at Torquay v Bath and hears from Gulls striker Ozyy Zanzala and manager Paul Wotton Plus a round up of all the action from across the three divisions Subscribe, like and leave a review Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

The multi-talented singer/songwriting duo from Torquay, UKMidnight 5-6 talk about their releases “When”, “Wishing I Was Gone”, “The Sea”,“Oooo!!” and more! The duo of Simon and Helen met online after the death ofboth of their partners with common music interests including John Martyn,Little Feat, etc., and formed the group in Christmas of  '16; Simon is the lead vocalist/guitaristborn in a military family in Singapore later joining the Navy but by land;Helen is the bass guitarist/vocalist from Southell, West London and worked as aDesign Engineer after leaving college; they have a loyal following on all majorplatforms plus share the stories behind the music! Check out the amazingMidnight 5-6 on your favorite platform today! #midnight56 #singersongwritingduo#torquay #UK #when #wishingiwasgone #thesea #oooo #simon #helen #johnmartyn#littlefeat #militaryfamily #navy #singapore #southell #westlondon#designengineer #spreaker #iheartradio #spotify #applemusic #youtube #anchorfm#bitchute #rumble #mikewagner #themikewagnershow #mikewagnermidnight56 #themikewagnershowmidnight56

The multi-talented singer/songwriting duo from Torquay, UKMidnight 5-6 talk about their releases “When”, “Wishing I Was Gone”, “The Sea”,“Oooo!!” and more! The duo of Simon and Helen met online after the death ofboth of their partners with common music interests including John Martyn,Little Feat, etc., and formed the group in Christmas of  '16; Simon is the lead vocalist/guitaristborn in a military family in Singapore later joining the Navy but by land;Helen is the bass guitarist/vocalist from Southell, West London and worked as aDesign Engineer after leaving college; they have a loyal following on all majorplatforms plus share the stories behind the music! Check out the amazingMidnight 5-6 on your favorite platform today! #midnight56 #singersongwritingduo#torquay #UK #when #wishingiwasgone #thesea #oooo #simon #helen #johnmartyn#littlefeat #militaryfamily #navy #singapore #southell #westlondon#designengineer #spreaker #iheartradio #spotify #applemusic #youtube #anchorfm#bitchute #rumble #mikewagner #themikewagnershow #mikewagnermidnight56 #themikewagnershowmidnight56

The multi-talented singer/songwriting duo from Torquay, UK Midnight 5-6 talk about their releases “When”, “Wishing I Was Gone”, “The Sea”, “Oooo!!” and more! The duo of Simon and Helen met online after the death of both of their partners with common music interests including John Martyn, Little Feat, etc., and formed the group in Christmas of  '16; Simon is the lead vocalist/guitarist born in a military family in Singapore later joining the Navy but by land; Helen is the bass guitarist/vocalist from Southell, West London and worked as a Design Engineer after leaving college; they have a loyal following on all major platforms plus share the stories behind the music! Check out the amazing Midnight 5-6 on your favorite platform today! #midnight56 #singersongwritingduo #torquay #UK #when #wishingiwasgone #thesea #oooo #simon #helen #johnmartyn #littlefeat #militaryfamily #navy #singapore #southell #westlondon #designengineer #spreaker #iheartradio #spotify #applemusic #youtube #anchorfm #bitchute #rumble #mikewagner #themikewagnershow #mikewagnermidnight56 #themikewagnershowmidnight56Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/the-mike-wagner-show--3140147/support.

David, Jon and Alfie chat about David's night at Torquay UTD. Winds Jon up a treat. Then David chooses his favourite team in League 2. They look through Exeter's squad and compare them to the Ipswich squad which got out of League 1. Then David pretends to be a billionaire and buy Exeter City to see how Jon would react. And if you'd like to support the pod and receive episodes early and videos and be part of a super little community then sign up to Patreon.com/davidearl thanks! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Join Chris, Matthew and Kirsty discussing the game against Dorking on Saturday, before looking ahead to Bath next week

In this conversation, Danni catch's up with Torquay local Suzie, who was the owner of the very well know Bird Rock Cafe in Jan Juc on the Surfcoast in Victoria. We talk about Suzie's journey to sobriety, exploring her experiences with addiction, the euphoria she initially felt, and the struggles she faced as her drinking escalated. Her drinking got so bad her family disowned her, when her drinking had escalated to 3 bottles of wine a day and eventually called out to a higher power for help and she never looked back. They delve into the importance of relationships, the impact of sobriety on family dynamics, and the daily battles with addiction. Susie shares her awakening moment and the transformative power of support and practices in recovery, emphasising that there is always hope for change and a better life. Suzie quit drinking at 62 and a great example of how it is never too late too change. For more resources such as coaching or to join the next HIQA challenge go towww.iquitalcohol.com.auFollow HIQA insta @howiquitalcohol Music for Podcast intro and outro written by Danni Carr performed by Mr CassidyIf you are struggling with physical dependancy on alcohol consider contacting a local AA meeting or a drug and alcohol therapist. Always consult a GP before stopping alcohol. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

This week it's a trio of Matt's to discuss all things Tonbridge and Salisbury, before looking ahead to Dorking.

Iain looks at a local case sent in by listeners about a man who miraculously survives the gallows. Plus, the story of a smuggler who faked his own death to transport his loot.Murder They Wrote with Laura Whitmore and Iain Stirling is available twice a week on BBC Sounds. Subscribe now so you never miss an episode. Email us at lauraandiain@bbc.co.uk.

My Story  Talk 9 Between Brentwood and Brasenose (1956-1959) Part 2 In our last talk I mentioned that three significant things happened between my leaving school in 1956 and going up to Brasenose in 1959. I gained experience in teaching. I met Eileen, my future wife. And I received the Baptism in the Holy Spirit. And it's the baptism in the Spirit that's the subject for today. We'll be talking about the events that led up to it, how I heard about it and how both Eileen and I received it.   In August 1957 at a Baptist Union Summer School in the Lake District I met a man called Michael, who mentioned that the following year he was planning to go touring Europe with some Christian friends who owned a car. He asked if I would be interested in going with them and I said yes. I paid to have driving lessons so that I could share in the driving. It was a wonderful holiday, not just because of the breathtaking scenery, but because it was there in Switzerland that I first heard about the baptism in the Holy Spirit.   In my book Signs from Heaven I have already recorded the miraculous escape I had from a falling boulder while climbing a mountain and how impressed I was with the simple faith of one of my new friends who prayed for me as he saw it coming straight for me. His name was Laurie and he was clearly moving in a dimension of Christianity that I knew little or nothing about. So I asked him what he had got that I hadn't got.   So he started to talk about an experience he had received after his conversion – being baptised with the Holy Spirit he called it – when the Holy Spirit had come and filled him to overflowing. He said he had spoken in tongues and told me I could read about it in the book of Acts. But although I wanted to experience more of God in my life, I wasn't interested in speaking in tongues, and I dismissed the subject from my mind. And I might have ignored it forever had it not been for the remarkable series of events which took place the following summer when both Eileen and I were baptised in the Spirit.   In the summer of 1959 we were both sitting in the youth meeting at Eileen's church singing from a well-known chorus book, when I happened to notice a list of books advertised on the back cover, one of which was entitled, The Full Blessing of Pentecost, by Dr. Andrew Murray. The title arrested my attention. Could this be what Laurie had been talking about the previous year in Switzerland? So I decided that it might be good to get it.   I mentioned this to Eileen and, without my knowing about it, she wrote to the publishers hoping to buy a copy for me, but a few days later, she received a reply saying the book was no longer available. The following Saturday morning, I went round to see Eileen and she told me that she had tried to get the book for me but that unfortunately it was out of print. A bit disappointed, I thanked her for trying anyway and, after spending the morning with her, returned home from Eileen's to my parents' house for lunch.   As the meal was not quite ready, I went into the sitting room to wait. On entering, I happened to notice a book lying on the piano and casually picked it up – The Full Blessing of Pentecost by Dr. Andrew Murray! But how did it get there? No one, except Eileen, knew anything of my interest in the subject. My parents did not know where the book had come from. It is true that my father had always had a large collection of books, but if it was his, he certainly had never read it, and didn't even know that he possessed it. Anyway, why wasn't it in the bookcase and how did it get on the piano?   No one had any idea how that book came to be there on the very day that I had been told it was unobtainable. The answer must surely lie in the realm of the supernatural. This was no coincidence. God was confirming to me that I needed to be baptised in the Spirit, and that afternoon, after I had read the book, I got down on my knees and asked God to fill me with the Holy Spirit. But nothing happened!   That evening, I went round to Eileen's and told her about the book. And after she had read the book she too started to seek for the baptism in the Holy Spirit. As Baptists, we knew next to nothing about it – only what we had read in Andrew Murray's book, and that, as I look back on it now, did not give an entirely complete picture.  As I remember it, it made a strong case for believing that there was an experience of the Holy Spirit beyond what we receive at conversion, but there was no mention of speaking in tongues as the evidence.   As a result we weren't exactly sure what we were asking for, but I had the distinct impression that if I was going to receive the Holy Spirit I needed to prepare myself by becoming more holy. I remember thinking that if I could only live a sinless life for a month, or maybe even a week, or even just today, perhaps God would fill me with the Holy Spirit. I remember driving my father's car taking care not to exceed the speed limit when, as I was going down a hill in a 30 zone, I noticed that the speedometer had gone up to 32 m.p.h. Oh no, I thought, I've missed receiving the baptism for another day!   Of course, I now understand, and frequently teach, that the Holy Spirit is a gift and can't be earned! But back then I was getting frustrated by trying the achieve an experience of the Spirit by my own efforts and inevitably failing. So I thought I would write to Laurie who had told me about the baptism in the Spirit in the first place. What should I do? To which he replied, David, all I can say is that if you are really thirsty, you will drink. But this was even more frustrating. The problem was, I had no idea how to drink! Laurie lived quite a distance from me and I didn't feel like writing back and saying,   Thanks Laurie. That's very helpful, but please, how do I drink?   So Eileen and I decided on a different approach. Perhaps we should find a Pentecostal Church and see if they could help us. It turned out that the nearest one was Bethel Full Gospel Church which was about five miles away in Dagenham, and easily reached on our recently acquired Lambretta scooter. So we drove over to take a look at it and discovered from the noticeboard that there was a prayer meeting every Tuesday evening. I was quite nervous about it as I had never been in a Pentecostal meeting before, but we were pleasantly surprised and were impressed with the number of people praying, even though prayers were interspersed with lots of Amens. We, of course, as good Baptists were only used to saying Amen at the end of a prayer! But what really impacted us was the use of the gift of tongues and interpretation. In the middle of the prayer time there were three ‘messages' in tongues each of which was promptly interpreted. And we knew that God was speaking to US. These people did not know who we were. We had arrived just in time for the meeting and had had no time for conversation before the meeting began. So when we heard the opening words of the first interpretation we were completely amazed:   You have come into this church seeking to be filled with the Spirit!   All three interpretations were equally directly relevant to us, and as a result we spoke with the pastor after the meeting and explained who we were and why we had come. His name was Alfred Webb, and he encouraged us to come the following Tuesday and sit on the front row where anyone ‘seeking the baptism' would be prayed for with the laying on of hands. So that's what we did, but we were rather disappointed when nothing seemed to happen when he laid hands on us. This happened week after week until we finally received after we had come back from our summer holiday in Torquay, Devon.   That holiday was significant for several reasons. It was the first time that Eileen and I had been on holiday together and we had borrowed my father's car so that we could take another young couple with us. My father had bought the car before he had passed the driving test so that I could give him lessons. (You may remember that I had learned to drive before we went on that holiday in Switzerland). Dad had not yet passed the test, so was happy to let me borrow it.   But, as far as the baptism in the Spirit was concerned, two things were particularly relevant. First, on the two Sundays we were in Torquay we decided to attend Upton Vale Baptist Church which was not far from the Christian Endeavour Holiday Home where we were staying. I was very impressed with the minister's sermon on Hebrews 11:6 and his emphasis on the fact that God rewards those who earnestly seek him. So I had a word with him after the service and told him I was seeking the baptism in the Spirit.   Sadly, but not unsurprisingly for a Baptist minister back in 1959, he tried to discourage me from doing so, something which, when I started my course at Oxford a month or so later, influenced my decision to attend a Pentecostal church while I was there rather than a Baptist church. However, that sermon on Hebrews 11:6 on God rewarding those who earnestly seek him did reemphasise a word of prophecy we had received at Bethel a few weeks earlier encouraging us to get up early to pray. Now I am not saying that getting up early to pray is a condition of receiving the baptism, but it could be an indication that we were earnestly seeking, that we were really thirsty (John 7:7-39). So for the rest of that holiday we got up early and prayed.   And when we went to the Tuesday prayer meeting after we got back from our holiday, it happened! This time there was another man sitting alongside the pastor on the platform. I had no idea who he was but as soon as the prayer time began he came down to pray for those who were seeking the baptism.   Eileen and I were kneeling in the front row and he came to me first. I was kneeling with my head in my hands on the seat of the chair I had been sitting on. The man, who I later learned was a pastor called Harold Young, said, Kneel up, brother. So I moved into an upright kneeling position and he then said, Breathe it in, brother. I had absolutely no idea what he was talking about, and I thought it rather strange. But I was thirsty and unquestioningly did what he said. I took a breath. Then he said, Speak it out brother. Again, I did what he said and I found myself speaking fluently in tongues. And I did not stop until the pastor closed the meeting 45 minutes later! Then someone came up to me and said, You had a mighty baptism, didn't you, brother? To which I replied, Oh, did I? To be honest, it was not at all what I had been expecting. Although I'm not really sure what I was expecting! By this time I had heard or read of so many different testimonies of people receiving the baptism and had realised that in some ways everyone is different, so I was not really sure what I should expect. What I wanted was to be filled with the Holy Spirit. I was not particularly interested in speaking in tongues.   What's more, I found myself questioning whether the words I was speaking really were a language. I had studied four different foreign languages at school and it certainly sounded like none of them. So was my experience real? These questions were going through my mind as we were travelling home on our scooter. But then I remembered something that Jesus had said in Luke 11. Our heavenly Father does not give stones or scorpions or snakes to his children when they ask for the Holy Spirit. And on that basis I chose to believe that what I had experienced was real. I'm so glad that I did. Its reality has been confirmed again and again in my life and ministry. But more of that in later talks.   But what about Eileen? She had had similar doubts when she heard what Harold Young had said to me and when he laid hands on her she did not receive. However, straight after the meeting he spoke to her and said, You do want to receive don't you? and Eileen said yes. So he took us both into the church vestry and placed his right hand on my head and told me to start speaking in tongues again. Then he placed his other hand on Eileen's head and said, Now you begin to speak too.   And she did! And later she told me that it had been in that very vestry that she had received Jesus as her saviour in Bethel Church Sunday school when she was only seven years old. So we were both baptised in the Spirit on the same day, September 8, 1959, just four weeks before I began my course at Brasenose College, Oxford, where I spent a lot of time telling other Christians about the baptism in the Holy Spirit. But we'll be talking about that next time.

David, Jon and Alfie are joined by the brilliant Charlie Baker. Is Torquay UTD closer to David than Exeter City. And if you'd like to support the pod and receive episodes early and videos and be part of a super little community then sign up to Patreon.com/davidearl thanks! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Luke Edwards is in the hotseat and is joined by Christian James, Dickie Worton and special guest Maidstone midfielder Ben Brookes. Ben talks through his sides victory over Torquay the tightness at the top of the division and his former club Chelmsford City. Plus an FA Trophy round up as Sittingbourne pull off a big shock as they see off Southend, Spennymoor leave Christian glum. In the league Barnet pull clear at the top of the National League as they see off Tamworth and York leave it late And in the North a managerial departure after a victory and missed opportunities at the top Subscribe and leave a review Produced by Leo Audio Productions Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

VYS0047 | The Weird Review Of The Year 2024 - Show Notes [Caution: This episode contains an extreme weariness for bullshit that some listeners may find triggering] 2024 was a tough year, weird but tough. And looking back over it doesn't make it any better. In what amounts to a rapid and inexorable descent into madness Hine and Buckley pick apart the weird and, frankly, fucking dystopian year that was 2024. Bouncing between jaded despair and hysterical mania the Vayse boys mull over the topics that dominated 2024: UFOs, Artificial Intelligence and Elon Fucking Musk. Whilst stumbling around in the intoxicating embrace of the seemingly endless darkness they also uncover strange stories of interconnected dreams, robot dogs with flame throwers, robot faces with living skin, bowls of goo with pong skills, plots to genetically engineer super-sheep, a surprising number of goblin attacks and perhaps, maybe, possibly a giant lake dwelling cow...? Recorded 22 January 2025 Massive thanks to Keith who had to tackle the show notes for this long and difficult episode - you can follow him at: : @peakflow.bsky.social As usual, the news stories in this episode were sourced from the weird and wonderous website: https://www.unexplained-mysteries.com/ - bookmark it and check it daily. Hine's Intro How Far Have You Travelled? - Michael Owen Carroll (https://www.michaelowencarroll.com/howfar.htm) Oligarchy - Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oligarchy) A Wizard of Earthsea: True names - Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Wizard_of_Earthsea#True_names) What Is Late-Stage Capitalism? - The Balance (https://www.thebalancemoney.com/late-stage-capitalism-definition-why-it-s-trending-4172369) Animal Farm - Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Animal_Farm) January ‘Jellyfish' UFO MoD expert gives surprising verdict on ‘Jellyfish UFO' hovering over Iraq - Metro (https://metro.co.uk/2024/01/10/jellyfish-ufo-iraq-airbase-well-real-says-mod-expert-20095286/amp/) Jellyfish UFO Analysis by Mick West - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ojotsKjshHc) "Those Are Balls" - Arrested Development - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6cQ3f13Oq7c) Neuralink human brain implant Elon Musk's Neuralink implants brain chip in first human - Reuters (https://www.reuters.com/technology/neuralink-implants-brain-chip-first-human-musk-says-2024-01-29/) Brain implants: what are the ethical issues of wiring up our minds? - Unexplained Mysteries (https://www.unexplained-mysteries.com/news/374601/brain-implants-what-are-the-ethical-issues-of-wiring-up-our-minds) March 2024 - Neuralink video shows patient using brain implant to play chess on laptop - The Verge (https://www.theverge.com/2024/3/21/24107499/neuralink-human-trial-chess-video-brain-computer-interface) Stanford hypnosis booster Stanford Hypnosis Integrated with Functional Connectivity-targeted Transcranial Stimulation (SHIFT): a preregistered randomized controlled trial - Nature (https://www.nature.com/articles/s44220-023-00184-z) Stanford scientists boost hypnotizability with transcranial magnetic brain stimulation - PsyPost (https://www.psypost.org/stanford-scientists-boost-hypnotizability-with-transcranial-magnetic-brain-stimulation/) VYS0041 | Technologies of Imagination - Vayse to Face with Bel Senlle (https://www.vayse.co.uk/vys0041) Derren Brown's Most Incredible Hypnosis Tricks - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lQAI1EFg2b4) February Lucid dreamers control virtual Cybertruck Two-way control of a virtual avatar from lucid dreams - REMSpace (https://remspace.net/blog/two-way-control-of-a-virtual-avatar-from-lucid-dreams/) Severance - Official Trailer - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xEQP4VVuyrY) Plasma lifeforms in our skies? Scientists Suggest WWII "Foo Fighters" Were Plasma Forms - Coast to Coast (https://www.coasttocoastam.com/alternate/amp/article/scientists-suggest-wwii-foo-fighters-were-plasma-forms/) Extraterrestrial Life in the Thermosphere: Plasmas, UAP, Pre-Life, Fourth State of Matter - SCIRP (https://www.scirp.org/journal/paperinformation?paperid=131506) How to Identify a Dark Matter Lifeform - Medium (https://jay-alfred1708.medium.com/how-to-identify-a-dark-matter-lifeform-6d362fb2ba11) Origins of the Gods: Qesem Cave, Skinwalkers, and Contact with Transdimensional Intelligences by Andrew Collins & Gregory L. Little - Goodreads (https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/59040095-origins-of-the-gods) A New Science of Heaven by Robert K.G. Temple - Goodreads (https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/61776165-a-new-science-of-heaven) The Super Natural: A New Vision of the Unexplained by Whitley Strieber & Jeffrey J. Kripal - Goodreads (https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/25489537-the-super-natural) The Cryptoterrestrials by Mac Tonnies - Goodreads (https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/7714033-the-cryptoterrestrials) Non-Living Intelligence: Cracking The Code For Materials That Can Learn - Astrobiology.com (https://astrobiology.com/2024/12/non-living-intelligence-cracking-the-code-for-materials-that-can-learn.html) A brief history of ontological shock - Unhidden.org (https://www.unhidden.org/a-brief-history-of-ontological-shock/) Animism - Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Animism) Oklahoma Thundercow Video: Mysterious "Thundercow" Becomes Local Legend in Oklahoma (https://www.coasttocoastam.com/alternate/amp/article/video-mysterious-thundercow-becomes-local-legend-in-oklahoma/) AI explains how to catch a Bigfoot Bigfoot can be caught with 'giant net' and 'Bigfoot suit' as advice issued - MSN (https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/technology/bigfoot-can-be-caught-with-giant-net-and-bigfoot-suit-as-advice-issued/ar-BB1iwvOe) Usborne's World of the Unknown: Monsters - Goodreads (https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/57653110-the-world-of-the-unknown) March ASMR - Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ASMR) Skinwalker Ranch investigated by AARO? Did AARO Just Confirm The US Government Officially Investigated Skinwalker Ranch? - Unexplained (https://www.unexplained.ie/article/750-did-aaro-just-confirm-the-us-government-officially-investigated-skinwalker-ranch/) Diana Walsh Pasulka - Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diana_Walsh_Pasulka) Gary Nolan - Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Garry_Nolan) The Handmaid's Tale by Margaret Atwood - Goodreads (https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/34454589-the-handmaid-s-tale) When goblins attack! Horror Film Come to Life: Goblins Terrorise Bulawayo Family, Children Beaten, Food Vanishes - iHarare (https://iharare.com/terrifying-goblins-haunt-bulawayo-family-leaving-children-beaten/) Otherworld podcast (https://podtail.com/podcast/otherworld/) Montana ‘Frankensheep' Montana rancher pleads guilty to ‘frankensheep' wildlife crimes - AGDaily (https://www.agdaily.com/livestock/montana-rancher-pleads-guilty-to-frankensheep-wildlife-crimes/) Ungulate - Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ungulate) Liger - Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liger) Bigfoot in Devon? Mysterious ‘Bigfoot' prints found along Torquay coast path - Devon Live (https://www.devonlive.com/news/devon-news/mysterious-bigfoot-prints-found-along-9138669) Jan 2025 - UAP recovery video shows ‘egg-shaped' object - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=009qMHiqsVs) April Australian Govt declares no interest in UFOs Australian Dept of Defence drops 10-page UFO dossier - The Mandarin (https://www.themandarin.com.au/243606-defence-drops-10-page-ufo-dossier/) Skinwalker Ranch - Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skinwalker_Ranch) Religion in Twin Peaks: Native American Beliefs - Fire Walk With Me (https://firewalkwithme.weebly.com/native-american-beliefs.html) Thermonator: Rise of the Machines Ohio company to sell a ‘flamethrower-wielding robot dog' called the Thermonator - The Guardian (https://amp.theguardian.com/technology/2024/apr/26/robot-flamethrower-dog-thermonator) May 2024 - Robot dogs armed with AI-aimed rifles undergo US Marines Special Ops evaluation - Ars Techina (https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2024/05/robot-dogs-armed-with-ai-targeting-rifles-undergo-us-marines-special-ops-evaluation/) Are we living in a dystopia? - The Conversation (https://theconversation.com/are-we-living-in-a-dystopia-136908) Handmaid's Tale Season One trailer - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dVLiDETfx1c) Fear and non-humans in Las Vegas Las Vegas ‘nonhuman, UFO' encounter ‘traumatizing,' teen says - News Nation (https://www.newsnationnow.com/banfield/las-vegas-nonhuman-ufo-encounter-traumatizing-teen-says/?utm_source=flipboard&utm_content=NewsNationNow%2Fmagazine%2FNewsNation) American Cosmic: UFOs, Religion, Technology by D.W. Pasulka - Goodreads (https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/38819245-american-cosmic) Jan 2025 - Whistleblower reveals UAP retrieval program; object caught on video | NewsNation - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3dtA9w5ldHw) Morbid masqueraders ‘AI death calculator' creators issue urgent warning about frighteningly accurate tool - NY Post (https://nypost.com/2024/04/29/tech/why-you-shouldnt-use-the-scarily-accurate-ai-death-calculator/) Dirty fuel Harwich factory to make jet fuel out of faeces in world first - BBC News (https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-essex-68789981) Robbie Williams: He's The One Robbie Williams thinks aliens are targeting him because he's so famous and can help them - Daily Star (https://www.dailystar.co.uk/showbiz/robbie-williams-thinks-aliens-targeting-32472744) Robbie Williams - Better Man | Official Trailer (2024 Movie) - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KVeH5T4wxkE) VYS0045 | This Is Not The End Times; This Is A Rescue Mission - Vayse to Face with Bob Cluness (https://www.vayse.co.uk/vys0045) The Unseen Grant Morrison - Intensive Care (Robbie Williams' album design) (https://sites.google.com/deepspacetransmissions.com/deepspacetransmissions/news/the-unseen-grant-morrison-intensive-care) May UAP Transparency Act introduced Rep. Burchett introduces UAP Transparency Act - House.gov (https://burchett.house.gov/media/press-releases/rep-burchett-introduces-uap-transparency-act) 2023 - ‘Crazy Plane Lady' Tiffany Gomas Opens Up About Viral Meltdown on Plane in Exclusive Interview - Inside Edition (https://www.insideedition.com/crazy-plane-lady-tiffany-gomas-opens-up-about-viral-meltdown-on-plane-in-exclusive-interview-84519) June 2024 - Hailey Welch (hawk tuah girl) - Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haliey_Welch) Vatican issues new guidelines on weird stuff Vatican tightens rules on supernatural phenomena - BBC News (https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cekl9jd883yo) AI to blame for lack of alien contact? AI may be to blame for our failure to make contact with alien civilisations - The Conversation (https://theconversation.com/ai-may-be-to-blame-for-our-failure-to-make-contact-with-alien-civilisations-227270) Turing test passed for first time? GPT-4 has passed the Turing test, researchers claim - Live Science (https://www.livescience.com/technology/artificial-intelligence/gpt-4-has-passed-the-turing-test-researchers-claim) I'm not a doppelgänger says Lavigne Avril Lavigne responds to bizarre conspiracy theory she died 20 years ago and was replaced by body double - The Standard (https://www.standard.co.uk/showbiz/avril-lavigne-conspiracy-theory-died-2003-body-double-melissa-vandella-b1158155.html) Chinese ‘pandas' were spray-painted dogs Chinese zoo under fire after dyeing dogs black and white for 'panda' exhibit - Sky News (https://news.sky.com/story/chinese-zoo-under-fire-after-dyeing-dogs-black-and-white-for-panda-exhibit-13132032) Sept 2024 - Moo Deng - Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moo_Deng) E.M. phone home Elon Musk Claims "I Am an Alien" Promises To Share Proof Online - Mashable (https://in.mashable.com/tech/75886/elon-musk-claims-i-am-an-alien-promises-to-share-proof-online) More goblin attacks Police officers in Zimbabwe desert station citing goblin attacks - Cite (https://cite.org.zw/police-officers-desert-station-citing-goblin-attacks/) Bizarre footage shows alleged "goblin" running across a road in Mexico - Unexplained Mysteries (https://www.unexplained-mysteries.com/news/376967/bizarre-footage-shows-alleged-goblin-running-across-a-road-in-mexico) June 10% chance of Cryptoterrestrials existing says Harvard study UFOs May Be Evidence Of "Cryptoterrestrials" Secretly Living Among Us - IFL Science (https://www.iflscience.com/ufos-may-be-evidence-of-cryptoterrestrials-secretly-living-among-us-74568) The Cryptoterrestrials by Mac Tonnies - Goodreads (https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/7714033-the-cryptoterrestrials) Robot faces made of living skin Faces made of living skin make robots smile - BBC News (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cedd3208veyo.amp) Perforation-type anchors inspired by skin ligament for robotic face covered with living skin - Cell.com (https://www.cell.com/cell-reports-physical-science/fulltext/S2666-3864(24)00335-7) Nevada monolith Mysterious monolith appears in Nevada desert - BBC News (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cekk7gm97j4o) Mexican BVM statue ‘cries tears of blood' Mystery as Virgin Mary statue "cries tears of blood" as church investigates "alleged miracle" - Irish Mirror (https://www.irishmirror.ie/news/world-news/mystery-virgin-mary-statue-cries-33048396) 25-foot-tall rideable bike breaks record Record-breaking 25-foot-tall rideable bike built by two friends - Guinness World Records (https://www.guinnessworldrecords.com/news/2024/6/record-breaking-25-foot-tall-rideable-bike-built-by-two-friends-770016) July Alleged Roswell metallic specimen analysed Pentagon Publishes Report on Material From an Alleged Alien Aircraft - Gizmodo (https://gizmodo.com/pentagon-publishes-report-on-material-from-a-reported-alien-aircraft-2000469433) AARO: Supplement to Oak Ridge National Laboratory's Analysis of a Metallic Specimen, July 2024 (https://www.aaro.mil/Portals/136/PDFs/Information%20Papers/AAROs_Supplement_to_ORNLs_Analysis_of_a_Metallic_Specimen.pdf) MUFON claims to have material of ‘non-human' origin Lighter than petal alien spacecraft's debris is on Earth. UFO hunters say it has 'non-human' origin - WION (https://www.wionews.com/science/lighter-than-petal-alien-spacecrafts-debris-is-on-earth-ufo-hunters-say-it-has-non-human-origin-741978/amp) Mars may have hosted microbial life NASA's Perseverance Rover Scientists Find Intriguing Mars Rock - NASA.gov (https://www.nasa.gov/missions/mars-2020-perseverance/perseverance-rover/nasas-perseverance-rover-scientists-find-intriguing-mars-rock/) Proposed seed repository on the moon Scientists propose lunar biorepository as ‘backup' for life on Earth - The Guardian (https://www.theguardian.com/environment/article/2024/jul/31/scientists-propose-lunar-biorepository-as-backup-for-life-on-earth) South Korea develops remote mind-control device New Technology to Control the Brain Using Magnetic Fields Developed - IBS (https://www.ibs.re.kr/cop/bbs/BBSMSTR_000000000738/selectBoardArticle.do?nttId=24921) Moscow Signal - Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moscow_Signal) Peter Levenda - Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_Levenda) Havana Syndrome - Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Havana_syndrome) Extreme eater dies during livestream Extreme eater, 24, dies during livestream of 10-hour food binge after her stomach ripped open - LBC (https://www.lbc.co.uk/news/extreme-eater-24-dies-during-livestream-of-10-hour-food-binge-after-her-stomach/) August Man found dead on beach surrounded by headless chickens Man found dead after performing ‘black magic ritual' on decapitated chickens - Metro (https://metro.co.uk/2024/08/05/man-dies-black-magic-ritual-involving-decapitated-chickens-21362994/amp/) Early ‘hobbit' hominins shorter than we thought Archaic human "hobbits" were even shorter than we thought, 700,000-year-old teeth and bone reveal - Live Science (https://www.livescience.com/archaeology/archaic-human-hobbits-were-even-shorter-than-we-thought-700000-year-old-teeth-and-bone-reveal) Stonehenge ‘altar stone' came from Scotland Stonehenge megalith came from Scotland, not Wales, ‘jaw-dropping' study finds - The Guardian (https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/article/2024/aug/14/stonehenge-megalith-came-from-scotland-not-wales-jaw-dropping-study-finds) Spinal Tap: Stonehenge - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qAXzzHM8zLw) Liquid water found under surface of Mars Liquid water in the Martian mid-crust - PNAS (https://www.pnas.org/doi/10.1073/pnas.2409983121) Reservoir of liquid water found deep in Martian rocks - BBC News (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/czxl849j77ko) Yet another goblin attack Bizarre video reportedly shows 'goblin' that attacked farm worker - Unexplained Mysteries (https://www.unexplained-mysteries.com/news/380629/bizarre-video-reportedly-shows-goblin-that-attacked-farm-worker) Scientists train goo to play computer game Electro-active polymer hydrogels exhibit emergent memory when embodied in a simulated game environment - Cell.com (https://www.cell.com/cell-reports-physical-science/fulltext/S2666-3864(24)00436-3#%20) Scientists Trained a Lump of Goo to Play Pong - Gizmodo (https://gizmodo.com/scientists-trained-a-lump-of-goo-to-play-pong-2000490231) September First civilian spacewalks SpaceX Makes History With First Spacewalks Ever by Private Citizens - Science Alert (https://www.sciencealert.com/spacex-makes-history-with-first-spacewalks-ever-by-private-citizens) Prince Philip fails to meet alien Prince Philip was ‘meant to meet an alien called Janus in a Chelsea flat' - Metro (https://metro.co.uk/2024/09/12/prince-philip-meant-meet-alien-called-janus-a-flat-21592325/) Flurry of activity at Loch Ness Mystery creature filmed moving across the surface of Loch Ness - Unexplained Mysteries (https://www.unexplained-mysteries.com/news/381245/mystery-creature-filmed-moving-across-the-surface-of-loch-ness) Loch Ness Monster encounter as shocked swimmer feels Nessie brush up against him - Daily Record (https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/scotland-now/loch-ness-monster-encounter-shocked-33694393) June 2024 - Huge search for the Loch Ness Monster claims to have found "unexplainable" new evidence - The Scotsman (https://www.scotsman.com/heritage-and-retro/heritage/huge-search-for-the-loch-ness-monster-claims-to-have-found-unexplainable-new-evidence-4651757) Oct 2024 - Monstrous disturbance recorded at Loch Ness - LochNess.com (https://lochness.com/monstrous-disturbances-recorded-at-loch-ness/) Oct 2024 - Loch Ness Monster spotted in "unprecedented" video that "can't be anything else" - Edinburgh Live (https://www.edinburghlive.co.uk/news/uk-world-news/loch-ness-monster-spotted-unprecedented-30350273) First lucid dream communication Breakthrough from REMspace: First Ever Communication Between People in Dreams - Business Wire (https://www.businesswire.com/news/home/20241008878282/en/Breakthrough-from-REMspace-First-Ever-Communication-Between-People-in-Dreams#) A historic milestone: Two people communicate in dreams - Tech Explorist (https://www.techexplorist.com/historic-milestone-two-people-communicate-dreams/91175/#google_vignette) Moon affected by COVID-19 pandemic Effect of COVID-19 global lockdown on our Moon - Oxford Universty Press (https://academic.oup.com/mnrasl/article/535/1/L18/7760380?login=false) COVID-19 Pandemic Affected the Moon, Scientists Claim - Futurism (https://futurism.com/the-byte/covid-19-pandemic-moon) October Trump protected against spells say witches Witches Report Their Spells Against Trump Aren't Working: "He Has a Shield" - CBN (https://cbn.com/news/us/witches-report-their-spells-against-trump-arent-working-he-has-shield) 100 right-footed shoes stolen Mystery over why shoe thief stole 100 right-footed shoes - Metro (https://metro.co.uk/2024/10/18/mystery-thieves-steal-100-shoes-right-foot-ones-21818147/) Viral pyramid pup This Pup Is Going Viral for Climbing to the Top of an Egyptian Pyramid - Smithsonian Magazine (https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/this-pup-is-going-viral-for-climbing-to-the-top-of-an-egyptian-pyramid-180985306/) Animals get drunk more frequently than we thought Drunk animals far more common than previously thought, scientists say - The Independent (https://www.independent.co.uk/news/science/alcohol-animals-drunk-fruits-ethanol-b2638124.html) The evolutionary ecology of ethanol - Cell.com (https://www.cell.com/trends/ecology-evolution/fulltext/S0169-5347(24)00240-4) Extraterrestrial life could be thriving near Uranus Constraining Ocean and Ice Shell Thickness on Miranda from Surface Geological Structures and Stress Modeling - IOP Science (https://iopscience.iop.org/article/10.3847/PSJ/ad77d7) November Tucker Carlson ‘physically mauled' by ‘demon' Tucker Carlson claims a ‘demon' attack left him bleeding in bed - The Guardian (https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2024/nov/01/tucker-carlson-demon-attack) 43 monkeys escape lab South Carolina Residents Told to Secure Their Homes After 43 Monkeys Escape Lab - Gizmodo (https://gizmodo.com/south-carolina-residents-told-to-secure-their-homes-after-43-monkeys-escape-lab-2000521629) AI tells student: “Please die. Please.” Google AI chatbot responds with a threatening message: "Human … Please die." - CBS News (https://www.cbsnews.com/news/google-ai-chatbot-threatening-message-human-please-die/) 690452 TikTok trend explained What does 690452 mean? The TikTok trend explained - Capital FM (https://www.capitalfm.com/internet/690452-meaning-tiktok/) How to Play the Elevator Game (and Survive the Otherworld) - WikiHow (https://www.wikihow.com/The-Elevator-Game) We're All Going to the World's Fair | Official Trailer - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y0AnGfzgh_w) Alex Jones' Infowars bought by The Onion The Onion purchases Alex Jones' Infowars at bankruptcy auction - Unexplained Mysteries (https://www.unexplained-mysteries.com/news/382468/the-onion-purchases-alex-jones-infowars-at-bankruptcy-auction) Sandy Hook Elementary School shooting conspiracy theories - Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sandy_Hook_Elementary_School_shooting_conspiracy_theories) Drone-cember US Air Force bases in UK swarmed by drones Mystery drones swarmed US Air Force base for 17 consecutive nights - Unexplained Mysteries (https://www.unexplained-mysteries.com/news/381708/mystery-drones-swarmed-us-air-force-base-for-17-consecutive-nights) What's going on with drones spotted over air bases in the UK? - Sky News (https://news.sky.com/story/whats-going-on-with-drones-spotted-over-us-air-bases-in-uk-13261593) New Jersey drone flap FBI joins hunt for answers behind nightly drone sightings in New Jersey - NBC New York (https://www.nbcnewyork.com/new-jersey/morris-county-nightly-drone-noises/6033146/) "I don't buy it": Americans want answers on possible drone sightings - BBC News (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cz0r9v3xekno) Live action role-playing game (LARP) - Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Live_action_role-playing_game) Ong's Hat: Compleat - Incunabula (https://incunabula.org/1300-2/) UK sets out position on unidentified aerial phenomenon - UK Defence Journal (https://ukdefencejournal.org.uk/uk-sets-out-position-on-unidentified-aerial-phenomenon/) ‘Mirror life' microbe research poses threat to life on Earth ‘Unprecedented risk' to life on Earth: Scientists call for halt on ‘mirror life' microbe research - The Guardian (https://www.theguardian.com/science/2024/dec/12/unprecedented-risk-to-life-on-earth-scientists-call-for-halt-on-mirror-life-microbe-research) Tomb of ‘real Santa Claus' discovered Sarcophagus of ‘real Santa Claus' found at St. Nicholas Church in Turkey - Archaeology News (https://archaeologymag.com/2024/12/sarcophagus-of-santa-claus-found-in-turkey/) Buckley's closing question ….. Vayse online Website (https://www.vayse.co.uk/) Twitter (https://twitter.com/vayseesyav) Bluesky (https://bsky.app/profile/vayseesyav.bsky.social) Instagram (https://www.instagram.com/vayseesyav/) Bandcamp (Music From Vayse) (https://vayse.bandcamp.com/) Ko-Fi (https://ko-fi.com/vayse) Email: vayseinfo@gmail.com

One last Gold sponsor slot is available for the AI Engineer Summit in NYC. Our last round of invites is going out soon - apply here - If you are building AI agents or AI eng teams, this will be the single highest-signal conference of the year for you!While the world melts down over DeepSeek, few are talking about the OTHER notable group of former hedge fund traders who pivoted into AI and built a remarkably profitable consumer AI business with a tiny team with incredibly cracked engineering team — Chai Research. In short order they have:* Started a Chat AI company well before Noam Shazeer started Character AI, and outlasted his departure.* Crossed 1m DAU in 2.5 years - William updates us on the pod that they've hit 1.4m DAU now, another +40% from a few months ago. Revenue crossed >$22m. * Launched the Chaiverse model crowdsourcing platform - taking 3-4 week A/B testing cycles down to 3-4 hours, and deploying >100 models a week.While they're not paying million dollar salaries, you can tell they're doing pretty well for an 11 person startup:The Chai Recipe: Building infra for rapid evalsRemember how the central thesis of LMarena (formerly LMsys) is that the only comprehensive way to evaluate LLMs is to let users try them out and pick winners?At the core of Chai is a mobile app that looks like Character AI, but is actually the largest LLM A/B testing arena in the world, specialized on retaining chat users for Chai's usecases (therapy, assistant, roleplay, etc). It's basically what LMArena would be if taken very, very seriously at one company (with $1m in prizes to boot):Chai publishes occasional research on how they think about this, including talks at their Palo Alto office:William expands upon this in today's podcast (34 mins in):Fundamentally, the way I would describe it is when you're building anything in life, you need to be able to evaluate it. And through evaluation, you can iterate, we can look at benchmarks, and we can say the issues with benchmarks and why they may not generalize as well as one would hope in the challenges of working with them. But something that works incredibly well is getting feedback from humans. And so we built this thing where anyone can submit a model to our developer backend, and it gets put in front of 5000 users, and the users can rate it. And we can then have a really accurate ranking of like which model, or users finding more engaging or more entertaining. And it gets, you know, it's at this point now, where every day we're able to, I mean, we evaluate between 20 and 50 models, LLMs, every single day, right. So even though we've got only got a team of, say, five AI researchers, they're able to iterate a huge quantity of LLMs, right. So our team ships, let's just say minimum 100 LLMs a week is what we're able to iterate through. Now, before that moment in time, we might iterate through three a week, we might, you know, there was a time when even doing like five a month was a challenge, right? By being able to change the feedback loops to the point where it's not, let's launch these three models, let's do an A-B test, let's assign, let's do different cohorts, let's wait 30 days to see what the day 30 retention is, which is the kind of the, if you're doing an app, that's like A-B testing 101 would be, do a 30-day retention test, assign different treatments to different cohorts and come back in 30 days. So that's insanely slow. That's just, it's too slow. And so we were able to get that 30-day feedback loop all the way down to something like three hours.In Crowdsourcing the leap to Ten Trillion-Parameter AGI, William describes Chai's routing as a recommender system, which makes a lot more sense to us than previous pitches for model routing startups:William is notably counter-consensus in a lot of his AI product principles:* No streaming: Chats appear all at once to allow rejection sampling* No voice: Chai actually beat Character AI to introducing voice - but removed it after finding that it was far from a killer feature.* Blending: “Something that we love to do at Chai is blending, which is, you know, it's the simplest way to think about it is you're going to end up, and you're going to pretty quickly see you've got one model that's really smart, one model that's really funny. How do you get the user an experience that is both smart and funny? Well, just 50% of the requests, you can serve them the smart model, 50% of the requests, you serve them the funny model.” (that's it!)But chief above all is the recommender system.We also referenced Exa CEO Will Bryk's concept of SuperKnowlege:Full Video versionOn YouTube. please like and subscribe!Timestamps* 00:00:04 Introductions and background of William Beauchamp* 00:01:19 Origin story of Chai AI* 00:04:40 Transition from finance to AI* 00:11:36 Initial product development and idea maze for Chai* 00:16:29 User psychology and engagement with AI companions* 00:20:00 Origin of the Chai name* 00:22:01 Comparison with Character AI and funding challenges* 00:25:59 Chai's growth and user numbers* 00:34:53 Key inflection points in Chai's growth* 00:42:10 Multi-modality in AI companions and focus on user-generated content* 00:46:49 Chaiverse developer platform and model evaluation* 00:51:58 Views on AGI and the nature of AI intelligence* 00:57:14 Evaluation methods and human feedback in AI development* 01:02:01 Content creation and user experience in Chai* 01:04:49 Chai Grant program and company culture* 01:07:20 Inference optimization and compute costs* 01:09:37 Rejection sampling and reward models in AI generation* 01:11:48 Closing thoughts and recruitmentTranscriptAlessio [00:00:04]: Hey everyone, welcome to the Latent Space podcast. This is Alessio, partner and CTO at Decibel, and today we're in the Chai AI office with my usual co-host, Swyx.swyx [00:00:14]: Hey, thanks for having us. It's rare that we get to get out of the office, so thanks for inviting us to your home. We're in the office of Chai with William Beauchamp. Yeah, that's right. You're founder of Chai AI, but previously, I think you're concurrently also running your fund?William [00:00:29]: Yep, so I was simultaneously running an algorithmic trading company, but I fortunately was able to kind of exit from that, I think just in Q3 last year. Yeah, congrats. Yeah, thanks.swyx [00:00:43]: So Chai has always been on my radar because, well, first of all, you do a lot of advertising, I guess, in the Bay Area, so it's working. Yep. And second of all, the reason I reached out to a mutual friend, Joyce, was because I'm just generally interested in the... ...consumer AI space, chat platforms in general. I think there's a lot of inference insights that we can get from that, as well as human psychology insights, kind of a weird blend of the two. And we also share a bit of a history as former finance people crossing over. I guess we can just kind of start it off with the origin story of Chai.William [00:01:19]: Why decide working on a consumer AI platform rather than B2B SaaS? So just quickly touching on the background in finance. Sure. Originally, I'm from... I'm from the UK, born in London. And I was fortunate enough to go study economics at Cambridge. And I graduated in 2012. And at that time, everyone in the UK and everyone on my course, HFT, quant trading was really the big thing. It was like the big wave that was happening. So there was a lot of opportunity in that space. And throughout college, I'd sort of played poker. So I'd, you know, I dabbled as a professional poker player. And I was able to accumulate this sort of, you know, say $100,000 through playing poker. And at the time, as my friends would go work at companies like ChangeStreet or Citadel, I kind of did the maths. And I just thought, well, maybe if I traded my own capital, I'd probably come out ahead. I'd make more money than just going to work at ChangeStreet.swyx [00:02:20]: With 100k base as capital?William [00:02:22]: Yes, yes. That's not a lot. Well, it depends what strategies you're doing. And, you know, there is an advantage. There's an advantage to being small, right? Because there are, if you have a 10... Strategies that don't work in size. Exactly, exactly. So if you have a fund of $10 million, if you find a little anomaly in the market that you might be able to make 100k a year from, that's a 1% return on your 10 million fund. If your fund is 100k, that's 100% return, right? So being small, in some sense, was an advantage. So started off, and the, taught myself Python, and machine learning was like the big thing as well. Machine learning had really, it was the first, you know, big time machine learning was being used for image recognition, neural networks come out, you get dropout. And, you know, so this, this was the big thing that's going on at the time. So I probably spent my first three years out of Cambridge, just building neural networks, building random forests to try and predict asset prices, right, and then trade that using my own money. And that went well. And, you know, if you if you start something, and it goes well, you You try and hire more people. And the first people that came to mind was the talented people I went to college with. And so I hired some friends. And that went well and hired some more. And eventually, I kind of ran out of friends to hire. And so that was when I formed the company. And from that point on, we had our ups and we had our downs. And that was a whole long story and journey in itself. But after doing that for about eight or nine years, on my 30th birthday, which was four years ago now, I kind of took a step back to just evaluate my life, right? This is what one does when one turns 30. You know, I just heard it. I hear you. And, you know, I looked at my 20s and I loved it. It was a really special time. I was really lucky and fortunate to have worked with this amazing team, been successful, had a lot of hard times. And through the hard times, learned wisdom and then a lot of success and, you know, was able to enjoy it. And so the company was making about five million pounds a year. And it was just me and a team of, say, 15, like, Oxford and Cambridge educated mathematicians and physicists. It was like the real dream that you'd have if you wanted to start a quant trading firm. It was like...swyx [00:04:40]: Your own, all your own money?William [00:04:41]: Yeah, exactly. It was all the team's own money. We had no customers complaining to us about issues. There's no investors, you know, saying, you know, they don't like the risk that we're taking. We could. We could really run the thing exactly as we wanted it. It's like Susquehanna or like Rintec. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. And they're the companies that we would kind of look towards as we were building that thing out. But on my 30th birthday, I look and I say, OK, great. This thing is making as much money as kind of anyone would really need. And I thought, well, what's going to happen if we keep going in this direction? And it was clear that we would never have a kind of a big, big impact on the world. We can enrich ourselves. We can make really good money. Everyone on the team would be paid very, very well. Presumably, I can make enough money to buy a yacht or something. But this stuff wasn't that important to me. And so I felt a sort of obligation that if you have this much talent and if you have a talented team, especially as a founder, you want to be putting all that talent towards a good use. I looked at the time of like getting into crypto and I had a really strong view on crypto, which was that as far as a gambling device. This is like the most fun form of gambling invented in like ever super fun, I thought as a way to evade monetary regulations and banking restrictions. I think it's also absolutely amazing. So it has two like killer use cases, not so much banking the unbanked, but everything else, but everything else to do with like the blockchain and, and you know, web, was it web 3.0 or web, you know, that I, that didn't, it didn't really make much sense. And so instead of going into crypto, which I thought, even if I was successful, I'd end up in a lot of trouble. I thought maybe it'd be better to build something that governments wouldn't have a problem with. I knew that LLMs were like a thing. I think opening. I had said they hadn't released GPT-3 yet, but they'd said GPT-3 is so powerful. We can't release it to the world or something. Was it GPT-2? And then I started interacting with, I think Google had open source, some language models. They weren't necessarily LLMs, but they, but they were. But yeah, exactly. So I was able to play around with, but nowadays so many people have interacted with the chat GPT, they get it, but it's like the first time you, you can just talk to a computer and it talks back. It's kind of a special moment and you know, everyone who's done that goes like, wow, this is how it should be. Right. It should be like, rather than having to type on Google and search, you should just be able to ask Google a question. When I saw that I read the literature, I kind of came across the scaling laws and I think even four years ago. All the pieces of the puzzle were there, right? Google had done this amazing research and published, you know, a lot of it. Open AI was still open. And so they'd published a lot of their research. And so you really could be fully informed on, on the state of AI and where it was going. And so at that point I was confident enough, it was worth a shot. I think LLMs are going to be the next big thing. And so that's the thing I want to be building in, in that space. And I thought what's the most impactful product I can possibly build. And I thought it should be a platform. So I myself love platforms. I think they're fantastic because they open up an ecosystem where anyone can contribute to it. Right. So if you think of a platform like a YouTube, instead of it being like a Hollywood situation where you have to, if you want to make a TV show, you have to convince Disney to give you the money to produce it instead, anyone in the world can post any content they want to YouTube. And if people want to view it, the algorithm is going to promote it. Nowadays. You can look at creators like Mr. Beast or Joe Rogan. They would have never have had that opportunity unless it was for this platform. Other ones like Twitter's a great one, right? But I would consider Wikipedia to be a platform where instead of the Britannica encyclopedia, which is this, it's like a monolithic, you get all the, the researchers together, you get all the data together and you combine it in this, in this one monolithic source. Instead. You have this distributed thing. You can say anyone can host their content on Wikipedia. Anyone can contribute to it. And anyone can maybe their contribution is they delete stuff. When I was hearing like the kind of the Sam Altman and kind of the, the Muskian perspective of AI, it was a very kind of monolithic thing. It was all about AI is basically a single thing, which is intelligence. Yeah. Yeah. The more intelligent, the more compute, the more intelligent, and the more and better AI researchers, the more intelligent, right? They would speak about it as a kind of erased, like who can get the most data, the most compute and the most researchers. And that would end up with the most intelligent AI. But I didn't believe in any of that. I thought that's like the total, like I thought that perspective is the perspective of someone who's never actually done machine learning. Because with machine learning, first of all, you see that the performance of the models follows an S curve. So it's not like it just goes off to infinity, right? And the, the S curve, it kind of plateaus around human level performance. And you can look at all the, all the machine learning that was going on in the 2010s, everything kind of plateaued around the human level performance. And we can think about the self-driving car promises, you know, how Elon Musk kept saying the self-driving car is going to happen next year, it's going to happen next, next year. Or you can look at the image recognition, the speech recognition. You can look at. All of these things, there was almost nothing that went superhuman, except for something like AlphaGo. And we can speak about why AlphaGo was able to go like super superhuman. So I thought the most likely thing was going to be this, I thought it's not going to be a monolithic thing. That's like an encyclopedia Britannica. I thought it must be a distributed thing. And I actually liked to look at the world of finance for what I think a mature machine learning ecosystem would look like. So, yeah. So finance is a machine learning ecosystem because all of these quant trading firms are running machine learning algorithms, but they're running it on a centralized platform like a marketplace. And it's not the case that there's one giant quant trading company of all the data and all the quant researchers and all the algorithms and compute, but instead they all specialize. So one will specialize on high frequency training. Another will specialize on mid frequency. Another one will specialize on equity. Another one will specialize. And I thought that's the way the world works. That's how it is. And so there must exist a platform where a small team can produce an AI for a unique purpose. And they can iterate and build the best thing for that, right? And so that was the vision for Chai. So we wanted to build a platform for LLMs.Alessio [00:11:36]: That's kind of the maybe inside versus contrarian view that led you to start the company. Yeah. And then what was maybe the initial idea maze? Because if somebody told you that was the Hugging Face founding story, people might believe it. It's kind of like a similar ethos behind it. How did you land on the product feature today? And maybe what were some of the ideas that you discarded that initially you thought about?William [00:11:58]: So the first thing we built, it was fundamentally an API. So nowadays people would describe it as like agents, right? But anyone could write a Python script. They could submit it to an API. They could send it to the Chai backend and we would then host this code and execute it. So that's like the developer side of the platform. On their Python script, the interface was essentially text in and text out. An example would be the very first bot that I created. I think it was a Reddit news bot. And so it would first, it would pull the popular news. Then it would prompt whatever, like I just use some external API for like Burr or GPT-2 or whatever. Like it was a very, very small thing. And then the user could talk to it. So you could say to the bot, hi bot, what's the news today? And it would say, this is the top stories. And you could chat with it. Now four years later, that's like perplexity or something. That's like the, right? But back then the models were first of all, like really, really dumb. You know, they had an IQ of like a four year old. And users, there really wasn't any demand or any PMF for interacting with the news. So then I was like, okay. Um. So let's make another one. And I made a bot, which was like, you could talk to it about a recipe. So you could say, I'm making eggs. Like I've got eggs in my fridge. What should I cook? And it'll say, you should make an omelet. Right. There was no PMF for that. No one used it. And so I just kept creating bots. And so every single night after work, I'd be like, okay, I like, we have AI, we have this platform. I can create any text in textile sort of agent and put it on the platform. And so we just create stuff night after night. And then all the coders I knew, I would say, yeah, this is what we're going to do. And then I would say to them, look, there's this platform. You can create any like chat AI. You should put it on. And you know, everyone's like, well, chatbots are super lame. We want absolutely nothing to do with your chatbot app. No one who knew Python wanted to build on it. I'm like trying to build all these bots and no consumers want to talk to any of them. And then my sister who at the time was like just finishing college or something, I said to her, I was like, if you want to learn Python, you should just submit a bot for my platform. And she, she built a therapy for me. And I was like, okay, cool. I'm going to build a therapist bot. And then the next day I checked the performance of the app and I'm like, oh my God, we've got 20 active users. And they spent, they spent like an average of 20 minutes on the app. I was like, oh my God, what, what bot were they speaking to for an average of 20 minutes? And I looked and it was the therapist bot. And I went, oh, this is where the PMF is. There was no demand for, for recipe help. There was no demand for news. There was no demand for dad jokes or pub quiz or fun facts or what they wanted was they wanted the therapist bot. the time I kind of reflected on that and I thought, well, if I want to consume news, the most fun thing, most fun way to consume news is like Twitter. It's not like the value of there being a back and forth, wasn't that high. Right. And I thought if I need help with a recipe, I actually just go like the New York times has a good recipe section, right? It's not actually that hard. And so I just thought the thing that AI is 10 X better at is a sort of a conversation right. That's not intrinsically informative, but it's more about an opportunity. You can say whatever you want. You're not going to get judged. If it's 3am, you don't have to wait for your friend to text back. It's like, it's immediate. They're going to reply immediately. You can say whatever you want. It's judgment-free and it's much more like a playground. It's much more like a fun experience. And you could see that if the AI gave a person a compliment, they would love it. It's much easier to get the AI to give you a compliment than a human. From that day on, I said, okay, I get it. Humans want to speak to like humans or human like entities and they want to have fun. And that was when I started to look less at platforms like Google. And I started to look more at platforms like Instagram. And I was trying to think about why do people use Instagram? And I could see that I think Chai was, was filling the same desire or the same drive. If you go on Instagram, typically you want to look at the faces of other humans, or you want to hear about other people's lives. So if it's like the rock is making himself pancakes on a cheese plate. You kind of feel a little bit like you're the rock's friend, or you're like having pancakes with him or something, right? But if you do it too much, you feel like you're sad and like a lonely person, but with AI, you can talk to it and tell it stories and tell you stories, and you can play with it for as long as you want. And you don't feel like you're like a sad, lonely person. You feel like you actually have a friend.Alessio [00:16:29]: And what, why is that? Do you have any insight on that from using it?William [00:16:33]: I think it's just the human psychology. I think it's just the idea that, with old school social media. You're just consuming passively, right? So you'll just swipe. If I'm watching TikTok, just like swipe and swipe and swipe. And even though I'm getting the dopamine of like watching an engaging video, there's this other thing that's building my head, which is like, I'm feeling lazier and lazier and lazier. And after a certain period of time, I'm like, man, I just wasted 40 minutes. I achieved nothing. But with AI, because you're interacting, you feel like you're, it's not like work, but you feel like you're participating and contributing to the thing. You don't feel like you're just. Consuming. So you don't have a sense of remorse basically. And you know, I think on the whole people, the way people talk about, try and interact with the AI, they speak about it in an incredibly positive sense. Like we get people who say they have eating disorders saying that the AI helps them with their eating disorders. People who say they're depressed, it helps them through like the rough patches. So I think there's something intrinsically healthy about interacting that TikTok and Instagram and YouTube doesn't quite tick. From that point on, it was about building more and more kind of like human centric AI for people to interact with. And I was like, okay, let's make a Kanye West bot, right? And then no one wanted to talk to the Kanye West bot. And I was like, ah, who's like a cool persona for teenagers to want to interact with. And I was like, I was trying to find the influencers and stuff like that, but no one cared. Like they didn't want to interact with the, yeah. And instead it was really just the special moment was when we said the realization that developers and software engineers aren't interested in building this sort of AI, but the consumers are right. And rather than me trying to guess every day, like what's the right bot to submit to the platform, why don't we just create the tools for the users to build it themselves? And so nowadays this is like the most obvious thing in the world, but when Chai first did it, it was not an obvious thing at all. Right. Right. So we took the API for let's just say it was, I think it was GPTJ, which was this 6 billion parameter open source transformer style LLM. We took GPTJ. We let users create the prompt. We let users select the image and we let users choose the name. And then that was the bot. And through that, they could shape the experience, right? So if they said this bot's going to be really mean, and it's going to be called like bully in the playground, right? That was like a whole category that I never would have guessed. Right. People love to fight. They love to have a disagreement, right? And then they would create, there'd be all these romantic archetypes that I didn't know existed. And so as the users could create the content that they wanted, that was when Chai was able to, to get this huge variety of content and rather than appealing to, you know, 1% of the population that I'd figured out what they wanted, you could appeal to a much, much broader thing. And so from that moment on, it was very, very crystal clear. It's like Chai, just as Instagram is this social media platform that lets people create images and upload images, videos and upload that, Chai was really about how can we let the users create this experience in AI and then share it and interact and search. So it's really, you know, I say it's like a platform for social AI.Alessio [00:20:00]: Where did the Chai name come from? Because you started the same path. I was like, is it character AI shortened? You started at the same time, so I was curious. The UK origin was like the second, the Chai.William [00:20:15]: We started way before character AI. And there's an interesting story that Chai's numbers were very, very strong, right? So I think in even 20, I think late 2022, was it late 2022 or maybe early 2023? Chai was like the number one AI app in the app store. So we would have something like 100,000 daily active users. And then one day we kind of saw there was this website. And we were like, oh, this website looks just like Chai. And it was the character AI website. And I think that nowadays it's, I think it's much more common knowledge that when they left Google with the funding, I think they knew what was the most trending, the number one app. And I think they sort of built that. Oh, you found the people.swyx [00:21:03]: You found the PMF for them.William [00:21:04]: We found the PMF for them. Exactly. Yeah. So I worked a year very, very hard. And then they, and then that was when I learned a lesson, which is that if you're VC backed and if, you know, so Chai, we'd kind of ran, we'd got to this point, I was the only person who'd invested. I'd invested maybe 2 million pounds in the business. And you know, from that, we were able to build this thing, get to say a hundred thousand daily active users. And then when character AI came along, the first version, we sort of laughed. We were like, oh man, this thing sucks. Like they don't know what they're building. They're building the wrong thing anyway, but then I saw, oh, they've raised a hundred million dollars. Oh, they've raised another hundred million dollars. And then our users started saying, oh guys, your AI sucks. Cause we were serving a 6 billion parameter model, right? How big was the model that character AI could afford to serve, right? So we would be spending, let's say we would spend a dollar per per user, right? Over the, the, you know, the entire lifetime.swyx [00:22:01]: A dollar per session, per chat, per month? No, no, no, no.William [00:22:04]: Let's say we'd get over the course of the year, we'd have a million users and we'd spend a million dollars on the AI throughout the year. Right. Like aggregated. Exactly. Exactly. Right. They could spend a hundred times that. So people would say, why is your AI much dumber than character AIs? And then I was like, oh, okay, I get it. This is like the Silicon Valley style, um, hyper scale business. And so, yeah, we moved to Silicon Valley and, uh, got some funding and iterated and built the flywheels. And, um, yeah, I, I'm very proud that we were able to compete with that. Right. So, and I think the reason we were able to do it was just customer obsession. And it's similar, I guess, to how deep seek have been able to produce such a compelling model when compared to someone like an open AI, right? So deep seek, you know, their latest, um, V2, yeah, they claim to have spent 5 million training it.swyx [00:22:57]: It may be a bit more, but, um, like, why are you making it? Why are you making such a big deal out of this? Yeah. There's an agenda there. Yeah. You brought up deep seek. So we have to ask you had a call with them.William [00:23:07]: We did. We did. We did. Um, let me think what to say about that. I think for one, they have an amazing story, right? So their background is again in finance.swyx [00:23:16]: They're the Chinese version of you. Exactly.William [00:23:18]: Well, there's a lot of similarities. Yes. Yes. I have a great affinity for companies which are like, um, founder led, customer obsessed and just try and build something great. And I think what deep seek have achieved. There's quite special is they've got this amazing inference engine. They've been able to reduce the size of the KV cash significantly. And then by being able to do that, they're able to significantly reduce their inference costs. And I think with kind of with AI, people get really focused on like the kind of the foundation model or like the model itself. And they sort of don't pay much attention to the inference. To give you an example with Chai, let's say a typical user session is 90 minutes, which is like, you know, is very, very long for comparison. Let's say the average session length on TikTok is 70 minutes. So people are spending a lot of time. And in that time they're able to send say 150 messages. That's a lot of completions, right? It's quite different from an open AI scenario where people might come in, they'll have a particular question in mind. And they'll ask like one question. And a few follow up questions, right? So because they're consuming, say 30 times as many requests for a chat, or a conversational experience, you've got to figure out how to how to get the right balance between the cost of that and the quality. And so, you know, I think with AI, it's always been the case that if you want a better experience, you can throw compute at the problem, right? So if you want a better model, you can just make it bigger. If you want it to remember better, give it a longer context. And now, what open AI is doing to great fanfare is with projection sampling, you can generate many candidates, right? And then with some sort of reward model or some sort of scoring system, you can serve the most promising of these many candidates. And so that's kind of scaling up on the inference time compute side of things. And so for us, it doesn't make sense to think of AI is just the absolute performance. So. But what we're seeing, it's like the MML you score or the, you know, any of these benchmarks that people like to look at, if you just get that score, it doesn't really tell tell you anything. Because it's really like progress is made by improving the performance per dollar. And so I think that's an area where deep seek have been able to form very, very well, surprisingly so. And so I'm very interested in what Lama four is going to look like. And if they're able to sort of match what deep seek have been able to achieve with this performance per dollar gain.Alessio [00:25:59]: Before we go into the inference, some of the deeper stuff, can you give people an overview of like some of the numbers? So I think last I checked, you have like 1.4 million daily active now. It's like over 22 million of revenue. So it's quite a business.William [00:26:12]: Yeah, I think we grew by a factor of, you know, users grew by a factor of three last year. Revenue over doubled. You know, it's very exciting. We're competing with some really big, really well funded companies. Character AI got this, I think it was almost a $3 billion valuation. And they have 5 million DAU is a number that I last heard. Torquay, which is a Chinese built app owned by a company called Minimax. They're incredibly well funded. And these companies didn't grow by a factor of three last year. Right. And so when you've got this company and this team that's able to keep building something that gets users excited, and they want to tell their friend about it, and then they want to come and they want to stick on the platform. I think that's very special. And so last year was a great year for the team. And yeah, I think the numbers reflect the hard work that we put in. And then fundamentally, the quality of the app, the quality of the content, the quality of the content, the quality of the content, the quality of the content, the quality of the content. AI is the quality of the experience that you have. You actually published your DAU growth chart, which is unusual. And I see some inflections. Like, it's not just a straight line. There's some things that actually inflect. Yes. What were the big ones? Cool. That's a great, great, great question. Let me think of a good answer. I'm basically looking to annotate this chart, which doesn't have annotations on it. Cool. The first thing I would say is this is, I think the most important thing to know about success is that success is born out of failures. Right? Through failures that we learn. You know, if you think something's a good idea, and you do and it works, great, but you didn't actually learn anything, because everything went exactly as you imagined. But if you have an idea, you think it's going to be good, you try it, and it fails. There's a gap between the reality and expectation. And that's an opportunity to learn. The flat periods, that's us learning. And then the up periods is that's us reaping the rewards of that. So I think the big, of the growth shot of just 2024, I think the first thing that really kind of put a dent in our growth was our backend. So we just reached this scale. So we'd, from day one, we'd built on top of Google's GCP, which is Google's cloud platform. And they were fantastic. We used them when we had one daily active user, and they worked pretty good all the way up till we had about 500,000. It was never the cheapest, but from an engineering perspective, man, that thing scaled insanely good. Like, not Vertex? Not Vertex. Like GKE, that kind of stuff? We use Firebase. So we use Firebase. I'm pretty sure we're the biggest user ever on Firebase. That's expensive. Yeah, we had calls with engineers, and they're like, we wouldn't recommend using this product beyond this point, and you're 3x over that. So we pushed Google to their absolute limits. You know, it was fantastic for us, because we could focus on the AI. We could focus on just adding as much value as possible. But then what happened was, after 500,000, just the thing, the way we were using it, and it would just, it wouldn't scale any further. And so we had a really, really painful, at least three-month period, as we kind of migrated between different services, figuring out, like, what requests do we want to keep on Firebase, and what ones do we want to move on to something else? And then, you know, making mistakes. And learning things the hard way. And then after about three months, we got that right. So that, we would then be able to scale to the 1.5 million DAE without any further issues from the GCP. But what happens is, if you have an outage, new users who go on your app experience a dysfunctional app, and then they're going to exit. And so your next day, the key metrics that the app stores track are going to be something like retention rates. And so your next day, the key metrics that the app stores track are going to be something like retention rates. Money spent, and the star, like, the rating that they give you. In the app store. In the app store, yeah. Tyranny. So if you're ranked top 50 in entertainment, you're going to acquire a certain rate of users organically. If you go in and have a bad experience, it's going to tank where you're positioned in the algorithm. And then it can take a long time to kind of earn your way back up, at least if you wanted to do it organically. If you throw money at it, you can jump to the top. And I could talk about that. But broadly speaking, if we look at 2024, the first kink in the graph was outages due to hitting 500k DAU. The backend didn't want to scale past that. So then we just had to do the engineering and build through it. Okay, so we built through that, and then we get a little bit of growth. And so, okay, that's feeling a little bit good. I think the next thing, I think it's, I'm not going to lie, I have a feeling that when Character AI got... I was thinking. I think so. I think... So the Character AI team fundamentally got acquired by Google. And I don't know what they changed in their business. I don't know if they dialed down that ad spend. Products don't change, right? Products just what it is. I don't think so. Yeah, I think the product is what it is. It's like maintenance mode. Yes. I think the issue that people, you know, some people may think this is an obvious fact, but running a business can be very competitive, right? Because other businesses can see what you're doing, and they can imitate you. And then there's this... There's this question of, if you've got one company that's spending $100,000 a day on advertising, and you've got another company that's spending zero, if you consider market share, and if you're considering new users which are entering the market, the guy that's spending $100,000 a day is going to be getting 90% of those new users. And so I have a suspicion that when the founders of Character AI left, they dialed down their spending on user acquisition. And I think that kind of gave oxygen to like the other apps. And so Chai was able to then start growing again in a really healthy fashion. I think that's kind of like the second thing. I think a third thing is we've really built a great data flywheel. Like the AI team sort of perfected their flywheel, I would say, in end of Q2. And I could speak about that at length. But fundamentally, the way I would describe it is when you're building anything in life, you need to be able to evaluate it. And through evaluation, you can iterate, we can look at benchmarks, and we can say the issues with benchmarks and why they may not generalize as well as one would hope in the challenges of working with them. But something that works incredibly well is getting feedback from humans. And so we built this thing where anyone can submit a model to our developer backend, and it gets put in front of 5000 users, and the users can rate it. And we can then have a really accurate ranking of like which model, or users finding more engaging or more entertaining. And it gets, you know, it's at this point now, where every day we're able to, I mean, we evaluate between 20 and 50 models, LLMs, every single day, right. So even though we've got only got a team of, say, five AI researchers, they're able to iterate a huge quantity of LLMs, right. So our team ships, let's just say minimum 100 LLMs a week is what we're able to iterate through. Now, before that moment in time, we might iterate through three a week, we might, you know, there was a time when even doing like five a month was a challenge, right? By being able to change the feedback loops to the point where it's not, let's launch these three models, let's do an A-B test, let's assign, let's do different cohorts, let's wait 30 days to see what the day 30 retention is, which is the kind of the, if you're doing an app, that's like A-B testing 101 would be, do a 30-day retention test, assign different treatments to different cohorts and come back in 30 days. So that's insanely slow. That's just, it's too slow. And so we were able to get that 30-day feedback loop all the way down to something like three hours. And when we did that, we could really, really, really perfect techniques like DPO, fine tuning, prompt engineering, blending, rejection sampling, training a reward model, right, really successfully, like boom, boom, boom, boom, boom. And so I think in Q3 and Q4, we got, the amount of AI improvements we got was like astounding. It was getting to the point, I thought like how much more, how much more edge is there to be had here? But the team just could keep going and going and going. That was like number three for the inflection point.swyx [00:34:53]: There's a fourth?William [00:34:54]: The important thing about the third one is if you go on our Reddit or you talk to users of AI, there's like a clear date. It's like somewhere in October or something. The users, they flipped. Before October, the users... The users would say character AI is better than you, for the most part. Then from October onwards, they would say, wow, you guys are better than character AI. And that was like a really clear positive signal that we'd sort of done it. And I think people, you can't cheat consumers. You can't trick them. You can't b******t them. They know, right? If you're going to spend 90 minutes on a platform, and with apps, there's the barriers to switching is pretty low. Like you can try character AI, you can't cheat consumers. You can't cheat them. You can't cheat them. You can't cheat AI for a day. If you get bored, you can try Chai. If you get bored of Chai, you can go back to character. So the users, the loyalty is not strong, right? What keeps them on the app is the experience. If you deliver a better experience, they're going to stay and they can tell. So that was the fourth one was we were fortunate enough to get this hire. He was hired one really talented engineer. And then they said, oh, at my last company, we had a head of growth. He was really, really good. And he was the head of growth for ByteDance for two years. Would you like to speak to him? And I was like, yes. Yes, I think I would. And so I spoke to him. And he just blew me away with what he knew about user acquisition. You know, it was like a 3D chessswyx [00:36:21]: sort of thing. You know, as much as, as I know about AI. Like ByteDance as in TikTok US. Yes.William [00:36:26]: Not ByteDance as other stuff. Yep. He was interviewing us as we were interviewing him. Right. And so pick up options. Yeah, exactly. And so he was kind of looking at our metrics. And he was like, I saw him get really excited when he said, guys, you've got a million daily active users and you've done no advertising. I said, correct. And he was like, that's unheard of. He's like, I've never heard of anyone doing that. And then he started looking at our metrics. And he was like, if you've got all of this organically, if you start spending money, this is going to be very exciting. I was like, let's give it a go. So then he came in, we've just started ramping up the user acquisition. So that looks like spending, you know, let's say we're spending, we started spending $20,000 a day, it looked very promising than 20,000. Right now we're spending $40,000 a day on user acquisition. That's still only half of what like character AI or talkie may be spending. But from that, it's sort of, we were growing at a rate of maybe say, 2x a year. And that got us growing at a rate of 3x a year. So I'm growing, I'm evolving more and more to like a Silicon Valley style hyper growth, like, you know, you build something decent, and then you canswyx [00:37:33]: slap on a huge... You did the important thing, you did the product first.William [00:37:36]: Of course, but then you can slap on like, like the rocket or the jet engine or something, which is just this cash in, you pour in as much cash, you buy a lot of ads, and your growth is faster.swyx [00:37:48]: Not to, you know, I'm just kind of curious what's working right now versus what surprisinglyWilliam [00:37:52]: doesn't work. Oh, there's a long, long list of surprising stuff that doesn't work. Yeah. The surprising thing, like the most surprising thing, what doesn't work is almost everything doesn't work. That's what's surprising. And I'll give you an example. So like a year and a half ago, I was working at a company, we were super excited by audio. I was like, audio is going to be the next killer feature, we have to get in the app. And I want to be the first. So everything Chai does, I want us to be the first. We may not be the company that's strongest at execution, but we can always be theswyx [00:38:22]: most innovative. Interesting. Right? So we can... You're pretty strong at execution.William [00:38:26]: We're much stronger, we're much stronger. A lot of the reason we're here is because we were first. If we launched today, it'd be so hard to get the traction. Because it's like to get the flywheel, to get the users, to build a product people are excited about. If you're first, people are naturally excited about it. But if you're fifth or 10th, man, you've got to beswyx [00:38:46]: insanely good at execution. So you were first with voice? We were first. We were first. I only knowWilliam [00:38:51]: when character launched voice. They launched it, I think they launched it at least nine months after us. Okay. Okay. But the team worked so hard for it. At the time we did it, latency is a huge problem. Cost is a huge problem. Getting the right quality of the voice is a huge problem. Right? Then there's this user interface and getting the right user experience. Because you don't just want it to start blurting out. Right? You want to kind of activate it. But then you don't have to keep pressing a button every single time. There's a lot that goes into getting a really smooth audio experience. So we went ahead, we invested the three months, we built it all. And then when we did the A-B test, there was like, no change in any of the numbers. And I was like, this can't be right, there must be a bug. And we spent like a week just checking everything, checking again, checking again. And it was like, the users just did not care. And it was something like only 10 or 15% of users even click the button to like, they wanted to engage the audio. And they would only use it for 10 or 15% of the time. So if you do the math, if it's just like something that one in seven people use it for one seventh of their time. You've changed like 2% of the experience. So even if that that 2% of the time is like insanely good, it doesn't translate much when you look at the retention, when you look at the engagement, and when you look at the monetization rates. So audio did not have a big impact. I'm pretty big on audio. But yeah, I like it too. But it's, you know, so a lot of the stuff which I do, I'm a big, you can have a theory. And you resist. Yeah. Exactly, exactly. So I think if you want to make audio work, it has to be a unique, compelling, exciting experience that they can't have anywhere else.swyx [00:40:37]: It could be your models, which just weren't good enough.William [00:40:39]: No, no, no, they were great. Oh, yeah, they were very good. it was like, it was kind of like just the, you know, if you listen to like an audible or Kindle, or something like, you just hear this voice. And it's like, you don't go like, wow, this is this is special, right? It's like a convenience thing. But the idea is that if you can, if Chai is the only platform, like, let's say you have a Mr. Beast, and YouTube is the only platform you can use to make audio work, then you can watch a Mr. Beast video. And it's the most engaging, fun video that you want to watch, you'll go to a YouTube. And so it's like for audio, you can't just put the audio on there. And people go, oh, yeah, it's like 2% better. Or like, 5% of users think it's 20% better, right? It has to be something that the majority of people, for the majority of the experience, go like, wow, this is a big deal. That's the features you need to be shipping. If it's not going to appeal to the majority of people, for the majority of the experience, and it's not a big deal, it's not going to move you. Cool. So you killed it. I don't see it anymore. Yep. So I love this. The longer, it's kind of cheesy, I guess, but the longer I've been working at Chai, and I think the team agrees with this, all the platitudes, at least I thought they were platitudes, that you would get from like the Steve Jobs, which is like, build something insanely great, right? Or be maniacally focused, or, you know, the most important thing is saying no to, not to work on. All of these sort of lessons, they just are like painfully true. They're painfully true. So now I'm just like, everything I say, I'm either quoting Steve Jobs or Zuckerberg. I'm like, guys, move fast and break free.swyx [00:42:10]: You've jumped the Apollo to cool it now.William [00:42:12]: Yeah, it's just so, everything they said is so, so true. The turtle neck. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Everything is so true.swyx [00:42:18]: This last question on my side, and I want to pass this to Alessio, is on just, just multi-modality in general. This actually comes from Justine Moore from A16Z, who's a friend of ours. And a lot of people are trying to do voice image video for AI companions. Yes. You just said voice didn't work. Yep. What would make you revisit?William [00:42:36]: So Steve Jobs, he was very, listen, he was very, very clear on this. There's a habit of engineers who, once they've got some cool technology, they want to find a way to package up the cool technology and sell it to consumers, right? That does not work. So you're free to try and build a startup where you've got your cool tech and you want to find someone to sell it to. That's not what we do at Chai. At Chai, we start with the consumer. What does the consumer want? What is their problem? And how do we solve it? So right now, the number one problems for the users, it's not the audio. That's not the number one problem. It's not the image generation either. That's not their problem either. The number one problem for users in AI is this. All the AI is being generated by middle-aged men in Silicon Valley, right? That's all the content. You're interacting with this AI. You're speaking to it for 90 minutes on average. It's being trained by middle-aged men. The guys out there, they're out there. They're talking to you. They're talking to you. They're like, oh, what should the AI say in this situation, right? What's funny, right? What's cool? What's boring? What's entertaining? That's not the way it should be. The way it should be is that the users should be creating the AI, right? And so the way I speak about it is this. Chai, we have this AI engine in which sits atop a thin layer of UGC. So the thin layer of UGC is absolutely essential, right? It's just prompts. But it's just prompts. It's just an image. It's just a name. It's like we've done 1% of what we could do. So we need to keep thickening up that layer of UGC. It must be the case that the users can train the AI. And if reinforcement learning is powerful and important, they have to be able to do that. And so it's got to be the case that there exists, you know, I say to the team, just as Mr. Beast is able to spend 100 million a year or whatever it is on his production company, and he's got a team building the content, the Mr. Beast company is able to spend 100 million a year on his production company. And he's got a team building the content, which then he shares on the YouTube platform. Until there's a team that's earning 100 million a year or spending 100 million on the content that they're producing for the Chai platform, we're not finished, right? So that's the problem. That's what we're excited to build. And getting too caught up in the tech, I think is a fool's errand. It does not work.Alessio [00:44:52]: As an aside, I saw the Beast Games thing on Amazon Prime. It's not doing well. And I'mswyx [00:44:56]: curious. It's kind of like, I mean, the audience reading is high. The run-to-meet-all sucks, but the audience reading is high.Alessio [00:45:02]: But it's not like in the top 10. I saw it dropped off of like the... Oh, okay. Yeah, that one I don't know. I'm curious, like, you know, it's kind of like similar content, but different platform. And then going back to like, some of what you were saying is like, you know, people come to ChaiWilliam [00:45:13]: expecting some type of content. Yeah, I think it's something that's interesting to discuss is like, is moats. And what is the moat? And so, you know, if you look at a platform like YouTube, the moat, I think is in first is really is in the ecosystem. And the ecosystem, is comprised of you have the content creators, you have the users, the consumers, and then you have the algorithms. And so this, this creates a sort of a flywheel where the algorithms are able to be trained on the users, and the users data, the recommend systems can then feed information to the content creators. So Mr. Beast, he knows which thumbnail does the best. He knows the first 10 seconds of the video has to be this particular way. And so his content is super optimized for the YouTube platform. So that's why it doesn't do well on Amazon. If he wants to do well on Amazon, how many videos has he created on the YouTube platform? By thousands, 10s of 1000s, I guess, he needs to get those iterations in on the Amazon. So at Chai, I think it's all about how can we get the most compelling, rich user generated content, stick that on top of the AI engine, the recommender systems, in such that we get this beautiful data flywheel, more users, better recommendations, more creative, more content, more users.Alessio [00:46:34]: You mentioned the algorithm, you have this idea of the Chaiverse on Chai, and you have your own kind of like LMSYS-like ELO system. Yeah, what are things that your models optimize for, like your users optimize for, and maybe talk about how you build it, how people submit models?William [00:46:49]: So Chaiverse is what I would describe as a developer platform. More often when we're speaking about Chai, we're thinking about the Chai app. And the Chai app is really this product for consumers. And so consumers can come on the Chai app, they can come on the Chai app, they can come on the Chai app, they can interact with our AI, and they can interact with other UGC. And it's really just these kind of bots. And it's a thin layer of UGC. Okay. Our mission is not to just have a very thin layer of UGC. Our mission is to have as much UGC as possible. So we must have, I don't want people at Chai training the AI. I want people, not middle aged men, building AI. I want everyone building the AI, as many people building the AI as possible. Okay, so what we built was we built Chaiverse. And Chaiverse is kind of, it's kind of like a prototype, is the way to think about it. And it started with this, this observation that, well, how many models get submitted into Hugging Face a day? It's hundreds, it's hundreds, right? So there's hundreds of LLMs submitted each day. Now consider that, what does it take to build an LLM? It takes a lot of work, actually. It's like someone devoted several hours of compute, several hours of their time, prepared a data set, launched it, ran it, evaluated it, submitted it, right? So there's a lot of, there's a lot of, there's a lot of work that's going into that. So what we did was we said, well, why can't we host their models for them and serve them to users? And then what would that look like? The first issue is, well, how do you know if a model is good or not? Like, we don't want to serve users the crappy models, right? So what we would do is we would, I love the LMSYS style. I think it's really cool. It's really simple. It's a very intuitive thing, which is you simply present the users with two completions. You can say, look, this is from model one. This is from model two. This is from model three. This is from model A. This is from model B, which is better. And so if someone submits a model to Chaiverse, what we do is we spin up a GPU. We download the model. We're going to now host that model on this GPU. And we're going to start routing traffic to it. And we're going to send, we think it takes about 5,000 completions to get an accurate signal. That's roughly what LMSYS does. And from that, we're able to get an accurate ranking. And we're able to get an accurate ranking. And we're able to get an accurate ranking of which models are people finding entertaining and which models are not entertaining. If you look at the bottom 80%, they'll suck. You can just disregard them. They totally suck. Then when you get the top 20%, you know you've got a decent model, but you can break it down into more nuance. There might be one that's really descriptive. There might be one that's got a lot of personality to it. There might be one that's really illogical. Then the question is, well, what do you do with these top models? From that, you can do more sophisticated things. You can try and do like a routing thing where you say for a given user request, we're going to try and predict which of these end models that users enjoy the most. That turns out to be pretty expensive and not a huge source of like edge or improvement. Something that we love to do at Chai is blending, which is, you know, it's the simplest way to think about it is you're going to end up, and you're going to pretty quickly see you've got one model that's really smart, one model that's really funny. How do you get the user an experience that is both smart and funny? Well, just 50% of the requests, you can serve them the smart model, 50% of the requests, you serve them the funny model. Just a random 50%? Just a random, yeah. And then... That's blending? That's blending. You can do more sophisticated things on top of that, as in all things in life, but the 80-20 solution, if you just do that, you get a pretty powerful effect out of the gate. Random number generator. I think it's like the robustness of randomness. Random is a very powerful optimization technique, and it's a very robust thing. So you can explore a lot of the space very efficiently. There's one thing that's really, really important to share, and this is the most exciting thing for me, is after you do the ranking, you get an ELO score, and you can track a user's first join date, the first date they submit a model to Chaiverse, they almost always get a terrible ELO, right? So let's say the first submission they get an ELO of 1,100 or 1,000 or something, and you can see that they iterate and they iterate and iterate, and it will be like, no improvement, no improvement, no improvement, and then boom. Do you give them any data, or do you have to come up with this themselves? We do, we do, we do, we do. We try and strike a balance between giving them data that's very useful, you've got to be compliant with GDPR, which is like, you have to work very hard to preserve the privacy of users of your app. So we try to give them as much signal as possible, to be helpful. The minimum is we're just going to give you a score, right? That's the minimum. But that alone is people can optimize a score pretty well, because they're able to come up with theories, submit it, does it work? No. A new theory, does it work? No. And then boom, as soon as they figure something out, they keep it, and then they iterate, and then boom,Alessio [00:51:46]: they figure something out, and they keep it. Last year, you had this post on your blog, cross-sourcing the lead to the 10 trillion parameter, AGI, and you call it a mixture of experts, recommenders. Yep. Any insights?William [00:51:58]: Updated thoughts, 12 months later? I think the odds, the timeline for AGI has certainly been pushed out, right? Now, this is in, I'm a controversial person, I don't know, like, I just think... You don't believe in scaling laws, you think AGI is further away. I think it's an S-curve. I think everything's an S-curve. And I think that the models have proven to just be far worse at reasoning than people sort of thought. And I think whenever I hear people talk about LLMs as reasoning engines, I sort of cringe a bit. I don't think that's what they are. I think of them more as like a simulator. I think of them as like a, right? So they get trained to predict the next most likely token. It's like a physics simulation engine. So you get these like games where you can like construct a bridge, and you drop a car down, and then it predicts what should happen. And that's really what LLMs are doing. It's not so much that they're reasoning, it's more that they're just doing the most likely thing. So fundamentally, the ability for people to add in intelligence, I think is very limited. What most people would consider intelligence, I think the AI is not a crowdsourcing problem, right? Now with Wikipedia, Wikipedia crowdsources knowledge. It doesn't crowdsource intelligence. So it's a subtle distinction. AI is fantastic at knowledge. I think it's weak at intelligence. And a lot, it's easy to conflate the two because if you ask it a question and it gives you, you know, if you said, who was the seventh president of the United States, and it gives you the correct answer, I'd say, well, I don't know the answer to that. And you can conflate that with intelligence. But really, that's a question of knowledge. And knowledge is really this thing about saying, how can I store all of this information? And then how can I retrieve something that's relevant? Okay, they're fantastic at that. They're fantastic at storing knowledge and retrieving the relevant knowledge. They're superior to humans in that regard. And so I think we need to come up for a new word. How does one describe AI should contain more knowledge than any individual human? It should be more accessible than any individual human. That's a very powerful thing. That's superswyx [00:54:07]: powerful. But what words do we use to describe that? We had a previous guest on Exa AI that does search. And he tried to coin super knowledge as the opposite of super intelligence.William [00:54:20]: Exactly. I think super knowledge is a more accurate word for it.swyx [00:54:24]: You can store more things than any human can.William [00:54:26]: And you can retrieve it better than any human can as well. And I think it's those two things combined that's special. I think that thing will exist. That thing can be built. And I think you can start with something that's entertaining and fun. And I think, I often think it's like, look, it's going to be a 20 year journey. And we're in like, year four, or it's like the web. And this is like 1998 or something. You know, you've got a long, long way to go before the Amazon.coms are like these huge, multi trillion dollar businesses that every single person uses every day. And so AI today is very simplistic. And it's fundamentally the way we're using it, the flywheels, and this ability for how can everyone contribute to it to really magnify the value that it brings. Right now, like, I think it's a bit sad. It's like, right now you have big labs, I'm going to pick on open AI. And they kind of go to like these human labelers. And they say, we're going to pay you to just label this like subset of questions that we want to get a really high quality data set, then we're going to get like our own computers that are really powerful. And that's kind of like the thing. For me, it's so much like Encyclopedia Britannica. It's like insane. All the people that were interested in blockchain, it's like, well, this is this is what needs to be decentralized, you need to decentralize that thing. Because if you distribute it, people can generate way more data in a distributed fashion, way more, right? You need the incentive. Yeah, of course. Yeah. But I mean, the, the, that's kind of the exciting thing about Wikipedia was it's this understanding, like the incentives, you don't need money to incentivize people. You don't need dog coins. No. Sometimes, sometimes people get the satisfaction fro

First up, a manager who finished his first 5 years as a boss with promotion to the National South before moving to a side now rivals for the National South title this season. Paul Wotton is clearly enjoying his new role and might just take Torquay United back up under their new ownership. Hoping to take inspiration from a reinvigorated Torquay, Banstead Athletic. After a very difficult year, new Chairman Gary Grabban is hopeful their pitch to the council will allow them to return to their traditional home and provide for the rebirth and growth of his historic club With the Non League Paper round-up Jon Couch, losing streaks ended, potential governing body swaps and managerial movements the big talking points. Plus what's to come in the weekend's Non League Paper.

Rob, Joe and Christian are joined by the recently retired Manny Oyeleke as he chats through his decisions to retire and what the future holds and give a player perspective on this time of year. An interesting day in the trophy as both York and Barnet head out, Boston beat Gateshead not at Gateshead and Torquay fall Faal of Worthing. Plus some big results at either end of the table in the North and South division Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

This week is a special episode of the podcast where we are looking back on some of our favourite pieces from the magazine over the past year and revisiting some of the conversations we had around them. First up: the Starmer supremacy Let's start with undoubtedly the biggest news of the year: Starmer's supermajority and the first Labour government in 14 years. In April, we spoke to Katy Balls and Harriet Harman about just what a supermajority could mean for Keir Starmer. Listening back, it's an incredibly interesting discussion to revisit. The aim of Katy's piece was to communicate the internal problems that could arise from such a sweeping victory and, crucially, how Starmer might manage a historic cohort of backbenchers. One MP who knows about adjusting to life in government after a supermajority is Harriet Harman, former leader of the Labour party and a member of Tony Blair's first cabinet. (01:51) Reflections from the editor's chair The change in No. 10 Downing Street is, of course, not the only notable shake-up in Westminster this year. Fraser Nelson stepped down as editor of The Spectator in September after 15 years of wielding the editor's pen, with 784 issues to his name. We sat down with him on his final day in the office to reflect on his time at 22 Old Queen Street. (08:31) Do historians talk down to children? In June, Mary Wakefield dedicated her column to this very question. She wrote about her experience trying to find engaging and challenging history books for her 8-year-old and compared the dumbed-down, one-dimensional version of history portrayed in modern children's books with the classic Ladybird books of the 1960s. She joined the podcast to discuss this with Dominic Sandbrook, author of the Adventures in Time children's book series and host of The Rest is History podcast. (17:18) Are ultra-processed foods really so bad? On The Edition podcast, we enjoy a fiery debate, and none was more heated than our discussion on ultra-processed foods. This debate, between columnist Matthew Parris and Christoffer van Tulleken, associate professor at UCL and author of the bestselling book Ultra-Processed People, took place in May. It was sparked by Matthew's column on the myths surrounding ultra-processed foods—foods engineered to be hyper-palatable and typically containing preservatives, emulsifiers, sweeteners, artificial colours, flavours, and so on. Such additives are widely considered detrimental to our health. Matthew says we shouldn't be worried, but we'll let you decide. (29:10) By whose values should we judge the past? On the podcast, we showcase articles from across the magazine—from the front half to the life pages, to books and arts. One of the most intriguing books of the year was Joan Smith's Unfortunately, she was a nymphomaniac: A New History of Rome's Imperial Women. An eye-catching title that is ‘as thought-provoking as it is provocative', as Daisy Dunn wrote in October. Many popular historians are singled out for their analysis of women in ancient Rome, including Professor Dame Mary Beard. In the interest of granting a right of reply, we invited Mary onto the podcast to discuss the merit of judging history by today's standards. (49:40) And finally: the politics of the breakfast buffet We thought we would leave you with one of the most prescient discussions we had on the podcast this year: the politics of the hotel breakfast buffet. Is it ethical to pocket a sandwich at a hotel breakfast buffet? Laurie Graham explored that question in the magazine back in September. Specifically, she revealed the very British habit of swiping food from free breakfasts to save for lunch later in the day. Laurie joined us alongside Mark Jenkins, a former hotel manager in Torquay, whom listeners may remember from the Channel 4 documentary The Hotel. (01:04:04) Hosted by William Moore and Lara Prendergast. Produced by Oscar Edmondson and Patrick Gibbons. 

This week is a special episode of the podcast where we are looking back on some of our favourite pieces from the magazine over the past year and revisiting some of the conversations we had around them. First up: the Starmer supremacy Let's start with undoubtedly the biggest news of the year: Starmer's supermajority and the first Labour government in 14 years. In April, we spoke to Katy Balls and Harriet Harman about just what a supermajority could mean for Keir Starmer. Listening back, it's an incredibly interesting discussion to revisit. The aim of Katy's piece was to communicate the internal problems that could arise from such a sweeping victory and, crucially, how Starmer might manage a historic cohort of backbenchers. One MP who knows about adjusting to life in government after a supermajority is Harriet Harman, former leader of the Labour party and a member of Tony Blair's first cabinet. (01:51) Reflections from the editor's chair The change in No. 10 Downing Street is, of course, not the only notable shake-up in Westminster this year. Fraser Nelson stepped down as editor of The Spectator in September after 15 years of wielding the editor's pen, with 784 issues to his name. We sat down with him on his final day in the office to reflect on his time at 22 Old Queen Street. (08:31) Do historians talk down to children? In June, Mary Wakefield dedicated her column to this very question. She wrote about her experience trying to find engaging and challenging history books for her 8-year-old and compared the dumbed-down, one-dimensional version of history portrayed in modern children's books with the classic Ladybird books of the 1960s. She joined the podcast to discuss this with Dominic Sandbrook, author of the Adventures in Time children's book series and host of The Rest is History podcast. (17:18) Are ultra-processed foods really so bad? On The Edition podcast, we enjoy a fiery debate, and none was more heated than our discussion on ultra-processed foods. This debate, between columnist Matthew Parris and Christoffer van Tulleken, associate professor at UCL and author of the bestselling book Ultra-Processed People, took place in May. It was sparked by Matthew's column on the myths surrounding ultra-processed foods—foods engineered to be hyper-palatable and typically containing preservatives, emulsifiers, sweeteners, artificial colours, flavours, and so on. Such additives are widely considered detrimental to our health. Matthew says we shouldn't be worried, but we'll let you decide. (29:10) By whose values should we judge the past? On the podcast, we showcase articles from across the magazine—from the front half to the life pages, to books and arts. One of the most intriguing books of the year was Joan Smith's Unfortunately, she was a nymphomaniac: A New History of Rome's Imperial Women. An eye-catching title that is ‘as thought-provoking as it is provocative', as Daisy Dunn wrote in October. Many popular historians are singled out for their analysis of women in ancient Rome, including Professor Dame Mary Beard. In the interest of granting a right of reply, we invited Mary onto the podcast to discuss the merit of judging history by today's standards. (49:40) And finally: the politics of the breakfast buffet We thought we would leave you with one of the most prescient discussions we had on the podcast this year: the politics of the hotel breakfast buffet. Is it ethical to pocket a sandwich at a hotel breakfast buffet? Laurie Graham explored that question in the magazine back in September. Specifically, she revealed the very British habit of swiping food from free breakfasts to save for lunch later in the day. Laurie joined us alongside Mark Jenkins, a former hotel manager in Torquay, whom listeners may remember from the Channel 4 documentary The Hotel. (01:04:04) Hosted by William Moore and Lara Prendergast.   Produced by Oscar Edmondson and Patrick Gibbons. 

My guest today is a renowned quilter from the picturesque town of Torquay,  Australia. If you've taken a workshop with her, you've likely danced around the house for days. Her designs are instantly recognizable with a seamless blend of traditional and contemporary design and she has made significant contributions to the quilting world. She draws inspiration from her travel adventures and the natural beauty of her surroundings in her homeland.Jen is known for creating quilts with intricate patterns, vibrant colors, and playful designs. Hand stitching is her passion and sharing the knowledge and techniques of this age old, mindful craft brings her great joy.Her work has been featured in popular magazines an exhibited in shows around the world and she has also won the very prestigious Raja Award in 2023 at the Australasian Quilt Convention. Find Jen Kingwell online at: https://www.amitie.com.au/Want to travel with Brandy?2025 FESTIVAL OF QUILTS Birmingham!!! This 14-day tour of Wales and England takes in the rich textile history and breathtaking cultural landmarks. Tour England & Wales ending at the Festival of Quilts. Call Judy at 1-877-235-3767 or go to  https://opulentquiltjourneys.com/destinations/britain/item/birmingham-festival-of-quilts-tour-with-brandy2026 JAPAN CRUISE!!! Watergirl Quilt Co and the Quilter on Fire have teamed up to sail the seas on the Celebrity Millennium. Sail with us on a JAPAN CRUISE in 2026! Registration is OPEN and this cruise is already 50% sold! SIGN UP TODAY!https://gravitate.travel/stitch-sail-japan-with-quilter-on-fire-and-watergirl-quilt-co/Quilter on Fire Website - https://quilteronfire.com/OLISO IRONS - Host of the Quilter on Fire Podcast Lounge each year at QuiltCon!BUY YOUR OWN OLISO MINI PROJECT IRON RIGHT HERESquare One Textile Art WorkshopLink to Brandy's email listKristy's Quilt Picture BookQuilter on Fire PatternsFree Quilter on Fire Holiday Table Runner VIDEO Support the showSupport the showThank you for listening to the Quilter on Fire Podcast.

PJ is taking a trip to Torquay!If you like what you hear here, tune into Radio Nova for the cereal messers: PJ Gallagher and Jim McCabe's radio show, "Morning Glory", every weekday from 6-10am.The IMRO Radio Award-winning show features news, sport, weather, traffic and craic every day, as well as the most seriously addictive music in town! Thanks to www.insuremycar.ieHere it across Ireland via the free Radio Nova app on Android & iphone, online at www.nova.ie, via the Irish Radio Player, via your smart speaker (“Play Radio Nova”) on 100.3 FM in Dublin and Meath, on 100.5 FM in Kildare, on 95.7 FM in Wicklow, on 100.1 FM in Ballbriggan and on Virgin Media TV 937. #GloryDaze #MorningGlory #RadioNova #PJGallagher #JimMcCabe #SeriouslyAddictive

In this episode, I had the good fortune of speaking with Craig Garrard better known as Boots. This is the second time Boots has been on the Horse's mouth, if you haven't heard his first go back to episode 3 and give it a spin, in that episode boots was fresh off the back of surviving a brain aneurysm and as a result having double brain surgery, a truly wild tale of survival ! In this episode we chime back in on where he's at today, leaving his old business and starting the Joymill surfboard factory in Torquay, we had a great yarn exploring diet, health, modern pressures, surfing, following intuition to see what kinda ra ra you can extract out of your days on earth with loved ones and keeping the ship upright as we creep up there on the ol totem pole of age. Cheers Boota  Hope you enjoy our chat 

This week, Justin catches up with Wendy Patterson in the car, Tom Stade in Torquay, and Big Dog Andy after Noodle Alley. Izzy and Barca Jim meet up in Glasgow, and a smellier than usual Post Bag signs us off.   Get in touch, #AskIzzy, or Dear Jon here: WhatsApp – 07495 717 860 Twitter – @3045podcast Email – podcast@justinmoorhouse.com   THIS WEEK'S GUESTS:   Wendy Patterson: https://www.imdb.com/name/nm2483728/   Tom Stade: https://tomstade.com/   EPISODE LINKS:   Robin Askwith: https://www.robinaskwith.com/   Noodle Alley, Manchester: https://noodlealley.co.uk/   Offshore Coffee, Glasgow: http://wp.offshore-coffee.co.uk/   THIS WEEK'S GIGS:   See Justin on Friday here: https://www.tickettailor.com/events/standishsocialclub/1404182?   OTHER STUFF:   Watch my YouTube Special: https://www.youtube.com/@justinmoorhousecomedian   The Greatest Performance of My Life: https://www.justinmoorhouse.com/   Join the Mailing List: https://justinmoorhouse.us2.list-manage.com/subscribe?u=4c600f8287b9c2e121f43c3a1&id=bbd0010665   Music by Liam Frost. Produced by Rachel Fitzgerald and Justin Moorhouse

Rob and Dickie are joined by former Yeovil, Torquay and now DAZN pundit Chris Hargreaves and Phil Annets who puts his FA Trophy hat on this week. Their is Christian James's thoughts on another defeat for Boston and we hear from Slough player manager Scotty Davies after a midweek win Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

01:00Personal Reflections and Sporting MemoriesMichael Wright and Stephen Peters discuss their childhood experiences with sports, highlighting the importance of unstructured play. Stephen reminisces about playing Wembley doubles and cricket with his brothers, which fostered their love for sports. He cites Gary Lineker as his sporting idol and recalls the memorable moment of watching England win the Rugby World Cup, sharing the experience with his family.7:26Sportsmanship and Values in RugbyStephen Peters discusses the values embodied by the All Blacks, noting their dedication to sportsmanship, ethics, and leaving the environment better than they found it. He contrasts the brutal nature of rugby with the humility displayed by teams like Japan, who also prioritize cleanliness and respect. Michael Wright agrees, emphasizing the importance of maintaining good standards both during and after the game.10:18Stephen Peters' Football Journey and Coaching ExperienceStephen Peters recounted his football journey, beginning at Southampton's academy and transitioning through various clubs, including Torquay and Tiverton, where he played alongside notable players. After enduring six knee operations, he shifted to coaching, spending significant time at Bristol Rovers and developing his own coaching business, which included holiday camps and elite training sessions. He later worked with Southampton's academy in London before returning to coaching youth football at Forest Green.17:32Exploring Functional Neurology and Primitive ReflexesStephen Peters recounted his introduction to developmental neurology through Seb Cain, whose daughter with Down syndrome surpassed medical predictions. Peters emphasized the importance of understanding primitive reflexes in helping children with various developmental challenges. 24:11Understanding Primitive Reflexes in Child DevelopmentStephen Peters emphasized the role of primitive reflexes in early childhood development, noting that they are crucial for survival and must integrate as children grow. He highlighted that these reflexes should typically disappear by age three, with most vanishing by age one. If they remain active, they can hinder neurological development and lead to issues such as speech delays.28:15Understanding Primitive Reflexes and Their Impact on Child DevelopmentStephen Peters explains that primitive reflexes are crucial for neurological development and can create barriers to higher functions if they remain active. He notes that the current environment, characterized by excessive screen time and reduced physical activity, is preventing children from moving enough to deactivate these reflexes. This lack of movement can lead to various developmental issues, including emotional regulation problems and speech delays.35:24Understanding Optimal Brain Development and DyslexiaMichael Wright raised questions about the sequence of reflexes in child development and whether it matters if milestones are missed. Stephen Peters confirmed that there is an optimal developmental route, highlighting that missing the crawling phase can lead to challenges such as dyslexia. He emphasized the significance of movement patterns in brain development and the potential for improvement at any age.38:06Reflex Assessment and Movement Integration in ChildrenStephen Peters highlighted the significance of assessing retained reflexes, such as the palmar reflex, in children and how these reflexes can lead to involuntary movements that hinder fine motor skills. He described a case involving an 11-year-old girl whose active palmar reflex caused her hand to close involuntarily while holding objects. Peters emphasized the need for targeted movement exercises to help integrate these reflexes, ultimately improving skills like handwriting and emotional regulation. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

The concluding part of our trip to Torquay, England. In this episode, we cover Babbacombe, Cockington and Brixham!

360: Izzi Batt-Doyle | Run Prix | Shokz OpenRun Review This episode is sponsored by Precision Fuel & Hydration, check out their free online planner that you can use to work out how much carb, sodium and fluid you need to perform at your best.  Click here then use the code at checkout as mentioned on the show for a discount. Izzi Batt-Doyle is this week's guest host and recaps her Paris Olympic campaign in the 5000m, pivoting to the track from the marathon and her recent 10K Road National Record at Run Prix on Sunday. Brad battles the wind out on Lake Burley Griffin. Julian takes on lead host duties while getting on the tools in Torquay. Izzi Batt-Doyle ran a new 10km Road National Record of 31:12 at the Run Prix event at Albert Park, while taking the win ahead of Gen Gregson and Sarah Klein. Haftu Strintzos was the first man across in 28:09 ahead of Ed Marks and Seth O'Donnell. Dave Ridley won the half marathon in 1:07:21, as did Meriem Daoui in 1:21:37. Run Prix Results   Glasgow will assume the hosting responsibilities for the 2026 Commonwealth Games, taking over from Victoria. Glasgow previously hosted the Commonwealth Games in 2014. https://runnerstribe.com/news/glasgow-will-host-the-2026-commonwealth-games/    The team reviews the Shokz OpenRun Open-Ear Bone Conduction wireless headphones, taking them on the run and rating their sound quality, then Moose goes on the Loose over athletes over-recovering from undertraining. Patreon Link: https://www.patreon.com/insiderunningpodcast Opening and Closing Music is Undercover of my Skin by Benny Walker. www.bennywalkermusic.com Join the conversation at: https://www.facebook.com/insiderunningpodcast/ To donate and show your support for the show: https://www.paypal.com/cgi-bin/webscr?cmd=_s-xclick&hosted_button_id=9K9WQCZNA2KAN

Welcome to this week's episode of The Happy Mama Movement Podcast.This week's guest is Kelley Pickett, a Registered Psychologist, Meditation Teacher, and Mama Rising Coach, dedicated to helping mothers understand themselves and thrive through holistic mental health practices.She shares with us:The Importance of Self-Awareness: Kelley shares how tools and practices can help mothers understand who they are and why they feel certain ways, leading to personal growth and empowerment.Navigating Stress and Anxiety: Kelley discusses how recognizing emotions and thought patterns can prevent burnout and support healing, particularly during motherhood.Kelley's Personal Journey: From burnout to balance, Kelley explains her own experiences and the committed action it took for her to reclaim her energy and mindset.Holistic Approach to Mental Health: Kelley emphasizes the importance of a multi-faceted, holistic approach to mental health, incorporating meditation, mindfulness, and wellness practices.Supporting Mothers Through Matrescence: Kelley shares how her recent Mama Rising studies on maternity leave transformed her understanding of motherhood and how she applies it in her private practice.I hope you find this episode useful, and if you do, please share it widely so mothers everywhere can access the support and information they need to thrive.Full YouTube presentation here: https://youtu.be/wCIRZDLCC4E-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ABOUT KELLEY PICKETT:Kelley Pickett is a Registered Psychologist, Meditation Teacher, and Mama Rising Coach. With 9 years of experience, Kelley recently started her private practice in Torquay, Victoria, and is passionate about empowering mothers with holistic mental health tools. Kelley is committed to helping her clients regain energy, nurture personal growth, and prevent burnout through mindfulness and meditation.RESOURCES:Website: www.kokorohealth.com.auInstagram: @kokoropsychologyandhealthFacebook: www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100068884960076Be sure to check out her upcoming online mini-course for mums! Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

This week: The US election is back on a knife-edge. Republicans hoped this week's debate would expose Kamala Harris's weaknesses. ‘They forgot that, when it comes to one-on-one intellectual sparring matches with candidates who aren't senile, Donald Trump is very bad indeed,' writes Freddy Gray. ‘A skilled politician would have been able to unpick Harris's act, but Trump could not.' Harris is enigmatic to the point of absurdity, but Trump failed to pin her down and may well have squandered his narrow lead. To discuss further, Freddy joined the podcast alongside Amber Duke, Washington editor at Spectator World. (02:05) Next: Lara and Will take us through some of their favourite pieces from this week, including Fraser Nelson's diary on the sale of The Spectator Magazine to Sir Paul Marshall. Then: how to catch a paedophile. London Overwatch, a paedophile hunting group, pose as children online to snare unsuspecting sexual predators. They then confront the suspect and livestream the arrest to thousands of viewers. The Spectator's Max Jeffery went along to see them catch a man who believes he has been speaking to a 14-year-old girl. Max was joined on the podcast by Nick, who runs London Overwatch. (18:34) And finally: is it ethical to pocket a sandwich at a hotel breakfast buffet? Laurie Graham explores the ethics of plundering the hotel buffet in the magazine this week. Specifically, she reveals the very British habit that many Brits swipe food from their free breakfasts to save for lunch later in the day. Laurie joined us alongside Mark Jenkins, a former hotel manager in Torquay who listeners may remember from the Channel 4 documentary ‘The Hotel' (27:51) Hosted by William Moore and Lara Prendergast.  Produced by Oscar Edmondson. 

This week:  The US election is back on a knife-edge. Republicans hoped this week's debate would expose Kamala Harris's weaknesses. ‘They forgot that, when it comes to one-on-one intellectual sparring matches with candidates who aren't senile, Donald Trump is very bad indeed,' writes Freddy Gray. ‘A skilled politician would have been able to unpick Harris's act, but Trump could not.' Harris is enigmatic to the point of absurdity, but Trump failed to pin her down and may well have squandered his narrow lead. To discuss further, Freddy joined the podcast alongside Amber Duke, Washington editor at Spectator World. (02:05)  Next: Lara and Will take us through some of their favourite pieces from this week, including Fraser Nelson's diary on the sale of The Spectator Magazine to Sir Paul Marshall.  Then: how to catch a paedophile. London Overwatch, a paedophile hunting group, pose as children online to snare unsuspecting sexual predators. They then confront the suspect and livestream the arrest to thousands of viewers. The Spectator's Max Jeffery went along to see them catch a man who believes he has been speaking to a 14-year-old girl. Max was joined on the podcast by Nick, who runs London Overwatch. (18:34) And finally: is it ethical to pocket a sandwich at a hotel breakfast buffet? Laurie Graham explores the ethics of plundering the hotel buffet in the magazine this week. Specifically, she reveals the very British habit that many Brits swipe food from their free breakfasts to save for lunch later in the day. Laurie joined us alongside Mark Jenkins, a former hotel manager in Torquay who listeners may remember from the Channel 4 documentary ‘The Hotel' (27:51) Hosted by William Moore and Lara Prendergast.  Produced by Oscar Edmondson. 

David, Jon and Alfie are joined by the very funny comedian and Torquay Utd fan, Charlie Baker. Exeter have just drawn with Torquay in a pre season friendly and Charlie takes this opportunity to stick the boot in. Jon then chats about some woman called Amateur Lilly. And if you'd like to support the pod and receive episodes early and videos and be part of a super little community then sign up to Patreon.com/davidearl Thanks! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices