One CA

Please welcome Bojan Pancevski, the Wall Street Journal's chief European political correspondent, who covers European and global affairs. This is a two-part series. I interview Bojan in Part I, and Mariah Yager from SMA interviews him in Part II. We discuss how the Russian war in Ukraine has spilled over into clandestine operations in Europe, resulting in a shadow war of espionage and sabotage between Russia and the West. --- One CA is a product of the civil affairs association and brings in people who are current or former military, diplomats, development officers, and field agents to discuss their experiences on the ground with a partner nation'speople and leadership. We aim to inspire anyone interested in working in the "last three feet" of U.S. foreign relations.  To contact the show, email us at CApodcasting@gmail.com or look us up on the Civil Affairs Association website at www.civilaffairsassoc.org  ---Great news!Feedspot, thepodcast industry ranking system, rated One CA Podcast as one of the top 10shows on foreign policy. Check it out at:https://podcast.feedspot.com/foreign_policy_podcasts/--- Special thanks toMorning Light Music for the sample of Summer Background. Retrieved fromhttps://youtu.be/FBHEF1nxbi0?si=r7DLKQA1Ch3t9C8q

Please welcome Bojan Pancevski, the Wall Street Journal's chief European political correspondent, who covers European and global affairs. This is a two-part series. I interview Bojan in Part I, and Mariah Yager from SMA interviews him in Part II. We discuss how the Russian war in Ukraine has spilled over into clandestine operations in Europe, resulting in a shadow war of espionage and sabotage between Russia and the West. --- One CA is a product of the civil affairs association and brings in people who are current or former military, diplomats, development officers, and field agents to discuss their experiences on the ground with a partner nation'speople and leadership. We aim to inspire anyone interested in working in the "last three feet" of U.S. foreign relations.  To contact the show, email us at CApodcasting@gmail.com or look us up on the Civil Affairs Association website at www.civilaffairsassoc.org  ---Great news!Feedspot, thepodcast industry ranking system, rated One CA Podcast as one of the top 10shows on foreign policy. Check it out at:https://podcast.feedspot.com/foreign_policy_podcasts/--- Special thanks toMorning Light Music for the sample of Summer Background. Retrieved fromhttps://youtu.be/FBHEF1nxbi0?si=r7DLKQA1Ch3t9C8q

Today, Rob Boudreau interviews 1st CAG G-9 OIC LtCol. Chris Bridger (who recently left for a new billet) and G-9 Chief GySgt Brian Schultz discuss their experience working in Civil Affairs. Enjoy.One CA is a product of the Civil Affairs Association and brings in people who are current or former military, diplomats, development officers, and field agents to discuss their experiences on the ground with a partner nation's people and leadership. We aim to inspire anyone interested in working in the "last three feet" of U.S. foreign relations.  To contact the show, email us at CApodcasting@gmail.com  or look us up on the Civil Affairs Association website at www.civilaffairsassoc.org---Great news!Feedspot, the podcast industry ranking system, rated One CA Podcast as one of the top 10 shows on foreign policy. Check it out at:https://podcast.feedspot.com/foreign_policy_podcasts/---Special Thanks to Louis Bacalov for a sample of Ricatto Alla Malla. Retrieved fromhttps://youtu.be/XSJN1R29mHE?si=nGPBcD-J7XM4BEFZ

Today we welcome Retired Col Jon Shaffner, now with Liberty Alliance.I first met Jon when he was an army strategist assigned to the Army chief of public affairs as their plans chief.Jon is working with Liberty Alliance to help expand their work in South America. So, let's get started.---One CA is a product of the civil affairs association and brings in people who are current or former military, diplomats, development officers, and field agents to discuss their experiences on the ground with a partner nation's people and leadership. We aim to inspire anyone interested in working in the "last three feet" of U.S. foreign relations. To contact the show, email us at CApodcasting@gmail.com or look us up on the Civil Affairs Association website at www.civilaffairsassoc.org---Great news!Feedspot, the podcast industry ranking system, rated One CA Podcast as one of the top 10 shows on foreign policy. Check it out at:https://podcast.feedspot.com/foreign_policy_podcasts/---Special Thanks to bushinside for the sample of Upbeat Background Music Instrumental "Dance ＆ Electronic." Retrieved from: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1MzdQLTBPPo

Welcome to ONE CA Podcast. Today, Brian Hancock hosts Giancarlo Newsome, an Army Reserve Civil Affairs officer, to explore innovation in diplomacy, including using a hybrid financial equity approach to partner-nation projects, technology acquisition, and improving civil affairs reach with partner nations. --- One CA is a product of the civil affairs association  and brings in people who are current or former military, diplomats, development officers, and field agents to discuss their experiences on the ground with a partner nation's people and leadership. We aim to inspire anyone interested in working in the "last three feet" of U.S. foreign relations.  To contact the show, email us at CApodcasting@gmail.com  or look us up on the Civil Affairs Association website at www.civilaffairsassoc.org ---Great news!Feedspot, the podcast industry ranking system, rated One CA Podcast as one of the top 10 shows on foreign policy. Check it out at:https://podcast.feedspot.com/foreign_policy_podcasts/

Today, we welcome retired colonel Ray Powell and retired Foreign Service Officer Jim Carouso to discuss their new show, "Why Should We Care about the Indo-Pacific?" The show is on YouTube and multiple podcast platforms.I bring them on to discuss their experiences in the Indo-Pacific and their new role in speaking and hosting on foreign policy. So, let's get started. To check out the show, here is the YouTube Link: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC6TMufYaMcN5pmi1Xkf_g1g---One CA is a product of the civil affairs associationand brings in people who are current or former military, diplomats, development officers, and field agents to discuss their experiences on the ground with a partner nation's people and leadership.We aim to inspire anyone interested in working in the "last three feet" of U.S. foreign relations.To contact the show, email us at CApodcasting@gmail.comor look us up on the Civil Affairs Association website at www civilaffairsassoc.org---Special Thanks to JPVG Ambience for the sample of Puerto Rico Latin Jazz. Retrieved from: https://youtu.be/PcYe8V075_4?si=JfG0XgBB6gJa6ODr

Welcome to One CA Podcast. This week, Assad Raza hosts John Nonemaker and Amanda Smolinski from Veterans Without Orders, a non-profit that recruits veteran Civil Affairs servicemembers to work in humanitarian assistance programs worldwide.Information on Veterans Without Orders:Website: https://veteranswithoutorders.org/Contact: john@veteranswithoutorders.org---One CA is a product of the civil affairs association and brings in people who are current or former military, diplomats, development officers, and field agents to discuss their experiences on the ground with a partner nation's people and leadership.We aim to inspire anyone interested in working in the "last three feet" of U.S. foreign relations. To contact the show, email us at CApodcasting@gmail.com or look us up on the Civil Affairs Association website at www civilaffairsassoc.org---Great news!Feedspot, the podcast industry ranking system rated One CA Podcast as one of the top 10 shows on foreign policy. Check it out at:https://podcast.feedspot.com/foreign_policy_podcasts/---Music: Special thanks to SYAH IW for a sample of Seventeen, April shower. Retrieved from https://youtube.com/watch?v=VaX1ggLTlwo&si=WHxLcsfzmOgfaZ_4

Welcome to One CA Podcast. Today we welcome Ali Maisam Nazary, who represents the Afghan resistance forces to the United States. We talk about how the resistance is structured, updates from Afghanistan and what a post-resistance Afghanistan would look like. ---One CA is a product of the civil affairs association and brings in people who are current or former military, diplomats, development officers, and field agents to discuss their experiences on the ground with a partner nation's people and leadership.We aim to inspire anyone interested in working in the "last three feet" of U.S. foreign relations. To contact the show, email us at CApodcasting@gmail.com or look us up on the Civil Affairs Association website at www civilaffairsassoc.org---Great news!Feedspot, the podcast industry ranking system rated One CA Podcast as one of the top 10 shows on foreign policy. Check it out at:https://podcast.feedspot.com/foreign_policy_podcasts/---Special thanks to Royalty Free Music for a sample of Dawali Festival Music. Retrieved from https://youtu.be/BqIvkuLjxhk?si=ggMrmDEXRSIQoRpp

Please welcome Lieutenant Nick Dubaz, the G39 Director of the Southern European Task Force, Africa. Nick oversees Civil Affairs teams working across the continent to help U.S. Embassies build positive relations with partner nations' people and leaders.---One CA is a product of the civil affairs association and brings in people who are current or former military, diplomats, development officers, and field agents to discuss their experiences on the ground with a partner nation's people and leadership.We aim to inspire anyone interested in working in the "last three feet" of U.S. foreign relations. To contact the show, email us at CApodcasting@gmail.com or look us up on the Civil Affairs Association website at www civilaffairsassoc.org---Great news!Feedspot, the podcast industry ranking system rated One CA Podcast as one of the top 10 shows on foreign policy. Check it out at:https://podcast.feedspot.com/foreign_policy_podcasts/---Music: Special Thanks to the site "Relaxing jazz piano" for the sample from Warm March Jazz Music. Retrieved from: https://youtu.be/m7WiikpM0J0?si=Ow6IiDktAqe6jykV

Please join me in welcoming Gretchen Peters, one of the best counter-network people I know.Gretchen came in to discuss the current challenges with targeting kingpins and criminal organizationsand how she maps and targets a network to ensure that the leaders get prosecuted and that the arrests also collapse the criminal organization.With our adversaries using criminal networks to forward their foreign policy goals, I felt this would be a pertinent discussion on how the US should respond. This is a two-part episode, so let's get started.---One CA is a product of the civil affairs association and brings in people who are current or former military, diplomats, development officers, and field agents to discuss their experiences on the ground with a partner nation's people and leadership. We aim to inspire anyone interested in working in the "last three feet" of U.S. foreign relations.  To contact the show, email us at CApodcasting@gmail.com or look us up on the Civil Affairs Association website at www civilaffairsassoc.org---Great news!Feedspot, the podcast industry ranking system rated One CA Podcast as one of the top 10 shows on foreign policy. Check it out at:https://podcast.feedspot.com/foreign_policy_podcasts/---Special Thanks to Jazz…venue for the sample of Paris Jazz Lounge. Retrieved from https://youtube.com/shorts/E2i8w6cdQR8?si=UqceqAb1c3oeElTy---

Please join me in welcoming Gretchen Peters, one of the best counter-network people I know.Gretchen came in to discuss the current challenges with targeting kingpins and criminal organizationsand how she maps and targets a network to ensure that the leaders get prosecuted and that the arrests also collapse the criminal organization. With our adversaries using criminal networks to forward their foreign policy goals, I felt this would be a pertinent discussion on how the US should respond. This is a two-part episode, so let's get started.---One CA is a product of the civil affairs association and brings in people who are current or former military, diplomats, development officers, and field agents to discuss their experiences on the ground with a partner nation's people and leadership.We aim to inspire anyone interested in working in the "last three feet" of U.S. foreign relations. To contact the show, email us at CApodcasting@gmail.com or look us up on the Civil Affairs Association website at www civilaffairsassoc.org---Great news!Feedspot, the podcast industry ranking system rated One CA Podcast as one of the top 10 shows on foreign policy. Check it out at:https://podcast.feedspot.com/foreign_policy_podcasts/---Special Thanks to Jazz…venue for the sample of Paris Jazz Lounge. Retrieved from https://youtube.com/shorts/E2i8w6cdQR8?si=UqceqAb1c3oeElTy---

Today, we welcome Mick Mulroy to discuss Fogbow, his new humanitarian NGO, and their work in Gaza, Sudan, and Syria. We also discuss the growing number of veteran humanitarian organizations getting involved in some of the most distressed places on Earth. --- One CA is a product of the civil affairs association and brings in people who are current or former military, diplomats, development officers, and field agents to discuss their experiences on the ground with a partner nation's people and leadership. We aim to inspire anyone interested in working in the "last three feet" of U.S. foreign relations.  To contact the show, email us at CApodcasting@gmail.com  or look us up on the Civil Affairs Association website at www civilaffairsassoc.org --- Great news! Feedspot, the podcast industry ranking system rated One CA Podcast as one of the top 10 shows on foreign policy. Check it out at: https://podcast.feedspot.com/foreign_policy_podcasts/ --- Special Thanks to Businside for the sample of Upbeat Background Music - Dance and Electronic Music. Retrieved from: https://youtu.be/1MzdQLTBPPo?si=6cJR4qPYoJUaohh3 --- Rough transcript:  00:00:05    Open Welcome to the 1CA podcast. This is your host, Jack Gaines. 1CA is a product of the Civil Affairs Association and brings in people who are current or former military, diplomats, development officers, and field agents to discuss their experiences on ground with a partner nation's people and leadership. Our goal is to inspire anyone interested in working the last three feet of foreign relations. To contact the show, email us at capodcasting at gmail dot com. or look us up on the Civil Affairs Association website at www .civilaffairsassos .org. I'll have those in the show notes. Today, we welcome Mick Mulroy to discuss Fogbow, his new humanitarian NGO, and their work in Gaza, Sudan, and Syria. We also discuss the growing number of veteran humanitarian organizations getting involved in some of the most distressed places on Earth. So let's get started. 00:00:57    MIC MULROY I've been to Syria several times, but I haven't been there recently and not since all of the Assad regime. So we are looking at the potential for what we as a group who supports humanitarian efforts can do in Syria. 00:01:11    JACK GAINES I hope Syria straightens out. The new government actually does build out something representative for the population and the economy, that it becomes more centrist. I have a lot of hope. I think we all should, 00:01:21    MIC MULROY have a lot of hope. I think we all should, right? It's a good thing, obviously, that Assad's... gone. I mean, hundreds of thousands of deaths are on his hands. So certainly a good thing. The question is whether the incoming crowd who took government control by force are going to be the reformers they say they are, or are they going to go back to their roots? I think the verdict is still out. We should all hope that's the case. I think the incoming or now the team that's in place is a bit more skeptical than the last. You can tell by whether they call them Jelani or Al -Shirar. That's the first indicator when I was doing my rounds on both the Hill Congress and the Trump team. I think there's criticism on just how inclusive they're going to be. But we should all hope that that is the case and that there's an election soon rather than the four years that I think they've been saying. But certainly when it comes to sections that are more related to Assad. They should be reconsidered, and we should look at what we're doing there long term. With the SDF during the defeat of ISIS, the crisis, if we pull out precipitously, both for our partners, the SDF and for the counterterrorism effort, but also our strategy against Iran and Russia to a certain extent, which right now, I think everybody would stay on their backside, especially when it comes to Syria. But when it comes to humanitarian assistance, there is a dire need, for sure. And I think that is something that a lot of groups are looking at, how they can contribute to the rebuilding of Syria and the promotion of a stable country that looks more inward. Their own people vice becoming a client state to actors don't have best interests Syrians like Russia. 00:03:10    JACK GAINES And it's interesting that with their change of government and Lebanon being able to form a government because Hezbollah has their fingers out of the pie right now. I see it as a real strategic opportunity because if Lebanon can get on its foot, Syria can get on its feet, there could be a whole sea change of policy in that region to where Iran's behaviors are balanced, Russia's behavior are balanced, the nations down there can actually rebuild and have a more stable government and a healthier international relationship. I agree with you, 00:03:40    MIC MULROY I agree with you, Derek. I think this is a very big opportunity for the United States. I use boxing analogies because I used to box. I used to coach boxing in the Marine Corps. This is a point where you see your opponent on the ropes, right? You don't back up. You go in and try to end the fight. I know we're not going to end the fight or the competition between us and Russia, but Ayoun is a partner, obviously the former commander of Lebanese Armed Forces. We have supported them for a long period of time. They were a very effective partner with us, and he was the head of it. So that's a huge opportunity right there. Iran, I think, has many strategic mistakes, and they realize that now, and they've seen it both in their major losses with leadership across the board, their capability, and of course in Syria. I mean, their corridor to fund and supply groups like Hamas and Hezbollah has been cut off, and they just don't have the platform that they have. And I think we should capitalize on that. Our policy should be... The promotion of U .S. interests, part of that, I believe, I don't know if we're going to today, is the promotion of democracy and human rights. But certainly, this is an opportunity to do both, our strategic interests and promotion of democratic values. 00:04:55    JACK GAINES With Fog Bow, you have a pretty heady team. Some folks that I've recognized from other efforts, some new. Ambassador Smith is awesome. Roger Thompson, you've got a lot of great people here. 00:05:06    MIC MULROY of great people here. 00:05:08    JACK GAINES By name only. 00:05:08    MIC MULROY name only. 00:05:10    JACK GAINES Well, Chris, he'd be right there with him. 00:05:11    MIC MULROY be right there with him. Yeah, so FABO is primarily veterans, but we have our humanitarian. And the skills that we have that I think are additive to the whole endeavor, which are air delivery. We've done that in Sudan. We've done maritime delivery in Gaza. We know Austere Logistics. We're a very small company, but we really focused on doing that. And that's why I said Roger's the MVP, right? So we have a lot of former SOF folks. We have a lot of... former special operations veterans, whose skill includes all the delivery and the planning and kind of figuring out hard problems where there's no easy solution. But Roger's done Marine Infantry, but he was also a Marine Logistics Officer. So that's why I say he's the MVP, because that's what we do essentially is logistics. Our mission accomplished, it's food delivered, people in need. 00:06:03    JACK GAINES Right. I've had a couple people on talk about the Triton Pier. Some of the challenges with prepping in Cyprus for it, putting the peer out, getting as much aid as possible out, and how the thing broke up. But similar to that, Fogbo seems to be focused on some of the harder areas to reach with aid. It's not a typical aid organization. You go into very restrictive areas that have real security challenges, and you help make sure that humanitarian effort arrives. so that people can continue to survive until conflicts, until crisis or disasters are resolved. That's a tough space to work in. And that's why we get requested to come in. 00:06:42    MIC MULROY to work in. And that's why we get requested to come in. When it comes to the pier, I would say this. We, Sam Mundy, Ricard General, you probably saw on the site, we briefed the last administration several times on the idea of bringing in aid. The Ameritimese, they came up with the JLOPS, the Joint Logistics on the Shore system. To be frank, we didn't think it was the best. Because of the sea states at the time, it could have been done a different way. But we're Americans, and by God, if the U .S. military is going to push up here from Virginia to Gaza, we're going to support it out of pocket. There's not a whole lot of countries that do something. In the United States, it did something, and it might not have been perfect, but it did still over 33 ,000 tons of food into Gaza when it's needed. So that's done, and we're still working to build facilities that can assist the storage of... Critical food aid, medical aid. For NGOs. The other point on how difficult, just to give you a highlight, in Sudan there was a very substantial population that got cut off from ground delivery of food because of that. Primarily the rainy season cut off the roads and the fighting, of course. They were out of food. And all it took was somebody who could come in there and deliver food via air in a very tightly controlled area because of the conflict. And that's where we fit in. That's de -conflicting battle space and airdrops, austere environments. That's what not just people in Fogbo, but that's what the U .S. military is pretty damn good at. So that's what we did for three months, and I think we did a lot of good. And now the situation has changed. It can get ground to leverage. But that's just an example of what we're doing. We're also looking to expand in others. And it's certainly not just about us. There's a lot of groups doing this out there. And if they see a need for our skill set, Give us a call. 00:08:35    JACK GAINES And I'll put it on the show notes as well. I'm sure this must be an adrenaline rush for a lot of the veterans to actually be out in the mix delivering humanitarian supplies, which is a great reward for the skills that a lot of people have. What kind of feedback have you gotten from your logistics teams, your pilots, your air crew, about what it's like to work for the organization? It really comes down to a mission, 00:08:56    MIC MULROY It really comes down to a mission, right? So we're all there because of mission, which is to enable humanitarian operations. We are a private company. That's why it's really incumbent on us to assist NGOs that are out there doing great work. I think the most feedback I've gotten is actually taking the skills that they learned over 20, sometimes 30 years, in our case, the U .S. military, a lot of it in conflict, and do something like this. So it's, and myself included, have really taken this mission on as important as any mission I've ever had. And that's what I hear. But of course, it isn't about us. I mean, there's other groups that are doing this, and there's certainly other groups that can do this, that get veterans that are really looking for something other than your standard jobs. This is an area where they can really have an impact really quick. 00:09:50    JACK GAINES The reason I bring it up is that I had Scott Mann on, and one of the things he really challenged with, we're all cause -based in the military. We work to a cause. We have a bigger thing we're trying to reach. And people get out. Some go to church, some start a business, some start a pizzeria or a workout joint. But some just struggle with trying to find that sense of cause and how they place it, what they can do with it. And his challenge was it drove him to suicide because he couldn't find his place in life after getting out of the military. And so that's why he looked into other things like acting and writing books and lectures and veterans of care programs. Veterans Without Orders, who does water delivery, because I want to show veterans that there are opportunities out there. We can apply that sense of cause to make a difference so that they don't feel like they're alone in this world. When I was talking to the Veterans Without Orders folks, what they found is being on the ground, a lot of the NGOs were surprised at how fast and efficient they were. They went to Haiti and some of the World Food Program folks were like, wow, how long have you guys been working together? It seems like you've been friends for years. And he's like, no, actually, We had a phone call for 20 minutes, landed, met, got on it. But we just have a common language. We understand what each other's doing. We know we're both here for the right reasons. And you just build that instant trust in order to do a mission. And that's what I assume you guys are seeing there as well. I worked pretty closely with him on the Afghan evacuation. 00:11:15    MIC MULROY I worked pretty closely with him on the Afghan evacuation. My group was called Dunkirk. We weren't a Team America Elite. We also did a lot with Scott. Because that was such a cause near and dear to their heart, that was the first. foray into humanitarian work. And I think that's stuck with a lot of them. And we're seeing a lot of that continue around the world where veterans say, oh, we can really do something here. I think that's great. 00:11:41    JACK GAINES With Kabul on the midst of collapsing, I saw a lot of veterans rallying together to figure out how to get private logistics in there, getting buses, getting private planes. One thing that I bumped into was a lot of NGOs that were desperately trying to get help because they had people that were working with aid and with state and with the military that were not represented on those lists that needed to get out of there because they were part of the cigar report or they were part of distribution and the Taliban knew who they were and they were going to come after them. My part was just plugging those NGOs in with veterans who had logistics, who had access to help them get some of those folks out. But I did notice that... Once people got involved, it's just almost like there was a light came on and said, oh, I don't have to wait for the U .S. government to order me to do something. I can actually go make a difference. I can take my skills and help be a part of the whole foreign policy scheme and actually do stuff. I can do it without having to be a part of aid or state. I can just build an NGO and do it. So I'm glad to see that splintering because I think it's created a lot of opportunities for folks. Yeah, 00:12:47    MIC MULROY Yeah, and it just doesn't need to be about... FIBO, we're just one group of many. My preference would be more about the need, and that is where we're going, right, where the need is. And then to the extent that there's a secondary is the fact that veterans can get involved. They can start their own. They can get involved with us. They can get involved with other groups. We do want to be the promoter of that concept. We get a lot of veterans out there. They need a purpose, I think. But there's also a need out there. It's on both sides of the equation. And I think... The skills that they bring to the table, they are very value -added into this arena. And we've heard that from many humanitarians, quite frankly, who have not been able to figure this out. This is something that we would have put in the too difficult category. So it doesn't need to be about our particular group. I think it should be about the need, which is growing. And on that side, there is massive crises around the world. People should care that they're starving kids in Sudan. And on top of that, the consequences. are going to be felt by everybody in the world if there is massive migration of their ability to feed themselves or their fling and conflict that make it untenable to even exist there. So these are issues that are very human issues that I think anybody, whether they're in Europe or the United States or Japan, should care about, but also because it could dramatically impact where they live because this is not something that's just going to stay contained. There are conflicts that are growing, that are perpetuated in existence. And there are, of course, climate issues. Climate's changing, and that's going to cause mass migration. And not people that are coming with their own means to support themselves. So not just taking care of the immediate need, which is food to people that are farming, but building up their ability to feed themselves has to be part of the long -term equation, or we're never going to get out of that cycle. And then we create these permanent IDK camps. and no chance of a future. So that needs to be done, but there needs to be long -term planning in the international community. I think from the U .S. perspective, I think we should lead it, but I don't think we should be it. This needs to be a joint effort by the international community. Actions are what count. So that should be a collective effort of the international community, which the United States would be a part. It'd certainly lead, in my opinion, but it needs to be much more of a collective effort. Some people... I'm just not used to seeing a lot of veterans in the humanitarians here. And there has been some like, wow, you guys are military. What are you guys doing here? And for the groups, the veterans that are out there doing it, if they're asking my opinion, I'd say just be clear. Don't worry about justifying your purpose in the humanitarian. There's never going to be too many people trying to help people around the world. So just drive on, do good work, and they'll either appreciate it or they won't. But I do hear that from other veterans that get into the area. To your point. Very few people serve in the United States, just the way it is. It's a very small group. Not to be corny, but it is a family. It's almost like there's characteristics that you just notice immediately across the services that you just have a commonality. So you talk to say, why would you think? Generally the same way, you're very mission -oriented, and that's something that's covering to a lot of people when they get with other veterans. In veteran suicide, it is a serious problem, and there are people addressing it, and I think they're doing great work. But one of the things I found, and you referenced it when it comes to Scott, is you don't have a purpose. From what I've seen, people can go downhill pretty quick. You go into a pit. And I live in Montana. I love Montana on a veterans here and coming. Some of the guys live in a pretty remote area. Some, like myself, live pretty close there. And when we do vet events, you basically send guys out to get other guys and say, yeah, I'll tell you no for an answer. They need to come in. They need to be around their people. They need to... shoot the shit and rib each other's and smoke a cigar or add a bourbon or whatever their thing is. But you got to go out there and find these guys. And some of them, they might appear to be okay, but next day they're not. 00:16:49    JACK GAINES Let me know if I have this picture right. You've created the Lobos Institute, which is kind of a training and preparation for people who want to get out and work in the humanitarian space or do outreach or work with partner nations. Outreach. to enable people to either help you with your outreach and your programs or to create their own space. And then you have Fogbo, which is kind of your operational arm where you are focusing on humanitarian assistance through Fogbo as when a filter for people who come through the Lobos Institute or other volunteers, but it's also a way for you to get into helping support others in need around the world. Is that kind of a clear way that you align this? Lobos Institute, 00:17:30    MIC MULROY Lobos Institute, three main components. One's like a think tank. where people learn and discuss issues of national security. The second part is tactical training here in Montana. So it's, as you might catch, mountain warfare, because everybody thinks winter warfare when I think of Montana. But the main effort is the enabling of humanitarian operations. And we've worked with the UN and Yemen, with the State Department in Afghanistan after withdrawal. And we're doing a lot of this with FABO in Sudan. As I mentioned, we don't do security sort of thing. It's important and there's groups to do it. That's cool. But it's not us. So my perspective, I would like to see more attention on some of these international and humanitarian crises. It's not something that exists simply on the other side of the world. And I'd like to see the extent that veterans are looking for something to do post -career, of course, military veterans, but State Department, the agency, et cetera. This is a place that I think they'll find meaning and purpose. And I think we all need that. 00:18:32    JACK GAINES Right. Crisis and disasters also attracts opportunism. I think a lot of people realize that with Afghanistan, that we're just feeding the wrong animal in a lot of ways. And that we just have to understand that with our aid and our foreign policy, that anytime that we give something, every time we build something, we also attract opportunism. And we need to make sure that when we're handling the government's business, We're doing it in the right possible way with the right checks and balances so that we're not just passing off vaccines to someone who's going to just sell them on the black market so that they can go to London and party. There's a lot to be learned from the time we spent in Afghanistan on the military side and on the diplomatic side, 00:19:08    MIC MULROY There's a lot to be learned from the time we spent in Afghanistan on the military side and on the diplomatic side, but certainly on the aid side and foreign assistance. When it comes to that, a lot of great work done by a lot of great people. But we need to take the lessons learned from that as well, because I think there's a growing concern that... The United States is the biggest donor around the world, which I think we should be proud of, but it's almost taken for granted. And a lot of it is not actually getting to the people whose it's intended to. Which my humble opinion doesn't mean we stop, it just means we get better at. That needs to be better explained to the American taxpayer who ultimately are the ones paying the bill. That's, I think it should go without saying, but I am saying it because I think there's a backlash and we don't want that to be the case. from the American people on what they view as just like an endless credit card for crises around the world from the American people without proper safeguards. And I think we need to get to a place where they feel more confident that's the case and where they feel it's aligned with our overall interest. 00:20:12    Close Thanks for listening. If you get a chance, please like and subscribe and rate the show on your favorite podcast platform. Also, if you're interested in coming on the show or hosting an episode, email us at capodcasting at gmail .com. I'll have the email and CA Association website in the show notes. And now, most importantly, to those currently out in the field working with a partner nation's people or leadership to forward U .S. relations, thank you all for what you're doing. This is Jack, your host. Stay tuned for more great episodes. One CA Podcast.  

Welcome to the One CA Podcast. Today, Brian Hancock interviewed Ismael Lopez about OHDACA and Humanitarian Relief and his experiences as a Marine Civil Affairs Officer.  Brian's profile: https://www.linkedin.com/in/brian-j-hancock/ Ismael's profile: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ishrlopez/  Transcript available below. --- One CA is a product of the civil affairs association  and brings in people who are current or former military, diplomats, development officers, and field agents to discuss their experiences on the ground with a partner nation's people and leadership. We aim to inspire anyone interested in working in the "last three feet" of U.S. foreign relations.  To contact the show, email us at CApodcasting@gmail.com  or look us up on the Civil Affairs Association website at www civilaffairsassoc.org --- Great news! Feedspot, the podcast industry ranking system rated One CA Podcast as one of the top 10 shows on foreign policy. Check it out at: https://podcast.feedspot.com/foreign_policy_podcasts/ --- Special Thanks to the creators of Jazz & Bossa Cafe for the sample of Positive March Music. Retrieved from https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PHeCxa0rMQ4 --- Transcript: 00:00:10 BRIAN HANCOCK Welcome to One Civil Affairs Podcast. I'm Lieutenant Colonel Brian Hancock, and I will be your host for this session. Today we have with us Major Ishmael Lopez to discuss civil affairs and the ongoing relief effort in the Gaza Strip. Let's talk a little bit more about that training piece. Part of readiness is being able to do your job. The Marine is an expeditionary force, perhaps becoming even more expeditionary with the expeditionary advanced base operations. construct, the chief of the Navy signed off on. So very interesting training opportunities for the fleet right now. And you mentioned Balakatan and some of those other exercise type missions that you've done. 00:00:53 BRIAN HANCOCK And I know you've probably done Marine Corps Warfighting exercise and mentioned JRTC. But what are some of these other missions you've done? You've talked about a dock up. A dock up is joined at the hip with humanitarian assistance and disaster relief, HADR. The Navy has a huge role in HADR for just a whole bunch of reasons. Has your detachment participated in any HADR missions? Is that another training opportunity that you have with your Marines in detachment? 00:01:21 ISMAEL LOPEZ We as a detachment have not. However, I do have individual Marines who have participated in HADR missions. Not a whole lot of experience, but there's some resident within the detachment. And to your point, there is huge training opportunity there for understanding how to integrate into an HADR response specific to DOD's role in supporting the State Department. We do have the opportunities for training with USAID, but that's all classroom. And we try to get as much exposure to that as possible. But as far as real-world HADR scenarios where we're able to integrate with the State Department and even into a joint task force or a multinational task force, it is very limited. I know that that is being discussed for future iterations of Balakatan specifically to have a HADR response, which makes sense, right? Because Balakatan is becoming a massive multinational exercise that features activities across the spectrum of military operations. Once that piece of it is integrated, then it's truly a well -thought -out, deliberate exercise on how to integrate HADR, whereas right now it's sort of sprinkled on top. The Marines, sailors, and even the Army, civil affairs practitioners that are supporting, are supporting steady -state engineering projects. And I think that's a missed opportunity because there's so much more that we can provide than project management. And there are opportunities there, but... If I'm a commander sitting on top of a joint task force, that's not where I would place those assets because it's going to happen. They're not caught off guard and they understand, okay, where is the USAID person that I need to be linked up with? Who do I need to be syncing up with? Again, looking for those opportunities. 00:03:22 BRIAN HANCOCK opportunities. I hear you. I know you've done a fair amount of work in South America with all the attention on ACOM and sometimes UCOM. I don't think we talk enough about, I think there are many opportunities in South America to do great things. And if we take a look at the Tierra del Fuego with all the earthquakes and the volcanoes and the things happening there and climate change and disasters, there seems to me more disasters, which is going to increase the chance that our government is temporarily overwhelmed and might have to issue a diplomatic cable and request assistance. For us in Title X, that's probably just some of our unique capabilities like rotary wing, pull up a nuclear ship and just start giving power to a large area. There's amazing things that we can do. And I know that there are disasters happening in South American countries, which tend to be a little more fragile. Do we have those opportunities? Is that something that we just haven't mapped out? How would we go about helping our South American brothers? 00:04:25 ISMAEL LOPEZ struggle with this because like you, I see the opportunities that are down there and they're plentiful. I worked down at the embassy in Bogotá, Colombia for three years during my FAO tour. And while I was there, I was a counter -narcotics maritime operations planner. So really fancy title for managing Section 333 funding programming. But our partners in that region are all about working with us. training with us, opening up their countries for us to train. They want to fight with us. In Colombia, we were trying to organize an additional exercise outside of the standard unit toss that goes on in South America. So as we started trying to test, does this concept work? What are going to be some of the challenges? What does it look like for closing ship to shore in a contestant environment? Colombia has amazing terrain that is very similar to that that you will find in the first island chain, surprisingly. A lot of people wouldn't know that, but it's there. So when you consider distance and cost associated with being able to provide realistic training that mimics the future fight, you have it in the same hemisphere. The challenge is, the NDS calls out very specifically, services, your priority is... UCOM. Your priority is AFRICOM. Your priority is CENTCOM. Your priority is writ large is Indopaycom. We'll focus on that. And so that automatically causes the services to look elsewhere rather than looking down south. And so that means that resources, manpower, etc. are going to get pulled to support efforts down there because it's not called out specifically in the NDS. And now it's being focused on other parts of the world. Fortunately, Marine Forces Reserve has shifted from trying to compete with the active component to adding relevancy by focusing on developing those opportunities in Latin America. I know the Army does a lot with the TSOCs down there, but more can be done and should be done, in my opinion. I think the relevancy is there and transferable to other parts of the globe. It's just getting past the, hey, I understood that this document calls this out. but there are opportunities here that align to what we're trying to get after in the NDS. And the other piece of that too is when you consider if we're having assets down there, it reduces the number of available resources that can respond to contingencies. And I think that's part of that equation. 00:07:09 BRIAN HANCOCK I think so. It's really not a bridge too far from our existing mental models. The energy may be in PayCon, but at the same time, you're still going to JRTC. Is that the Deep Pacific? No, not at all. But there's still value in that training. If you can go to Columbia and move through similar islands, have similar river problem sets, similar terrain problem sets, and get that experience at a fraction of the cost of going to the Deep Pacific, that's not something we should overlook. And we can't ignore the fact that there's increasing levels of adversary activity in South America, I don't think we should take that for granted. And doing these mill to mill and working together side by side on various projects, there's nothing but good stuff there. So I'm hopeful that we may in the future put a little bit more energy into that theater. 00:08:02 ISMAEL LOPEZ Yeah. And the one last piece of it I think that we take for granted is the belief that our partners in the Western Hemisphere are going to stay aligned to us. because we have those shared values. But when you have our competitors knocking on the door and saying, hey, we want to train with you. We want to provide you money. We want to do all these things. And we're taking for granted that relationship. It's only going to last so much longer before the number of partners that we have on there are going to be very limited. Yeah. 00:08:33 BRIAN HANCOCK You know, it kind of reminds me of the Sims game. I don't know if you've played this. But there's a relationship meter. And if you want to have positive relationships with another avatar in this simulation, you have to interact with them. You have to do that fairly regularly because over time, that relationship meter decays. Relationships aren't static like that. They're usually moving forward or they're sliding backwards. And if we're not in that game and we have hungry competitors, we can see where that could go. Let's talk about some of your work as a foreign area officer. That's a very coveted job for civil affairs and folks who think they may have a future intent to work for Department of State. A lot of folks don't get there. What did you do as a foreign area officer, and how do you get involved in that kind of work? 00:09:25 ISMAEL LOPEZ For the Marine Corps, I was actually able to use my experience as a civil affairs officer to springboard. into becoming a Latin America FAO. So in the Marines, we have two different ways of becoming a foreign area officer. There is the experience track, which is the one I fell into. And then the other one is a study track. So either route, you have solicitation for candidates, individuals who have experiences overseas, working specifically on the civ. side of the house, not necessarily the mill -to -mill piece, right? Because we're looking at international relations, foreign relations, etc. And then you have the study track, which is you get selected, you get sent to Monterey to earn a master's degree in international relations. Then they send you to the language school, DLI, for a language, and you get assigned a region. And then you get sent either to combatant command to work as a desk officer. or you get sent to a country overseas and you're going to work out at the embassy. So for me, I was able to parlay my experiences as a civil affairs officer, and then the board selected me as a Latin America foreign area officer. And what that did was that it opened me up to that role in the embassy. So my wife's active duty Air Force, and she's also a Latin America foreign area officer. She got sent to Naval Postgraduate School, earned her master's. Didn't have to go to DLI because she already spoke Spanish. And then she got orders to the embassy in Columbia. Family and I obviously went along. And as we were doing our introduction with the scout chief, she mentions my husband's a civil affairs officer and a FAO. And his eyes just lit up. He's like, we haven't had a Marine sitting in the naval mission for the Section 333 program in quite some time because we just don't have them. Part of the challenge is the cost associated with bringing one down. But since I was already there, in his eyes, he was getting two fails for the price of one. So because I had that, I was able to meet the requirement for the billet. And then I was able to serve as the program manager for the Section 333 program for roughly three years. 00:11:38 BRIAN HANCOCK Well done. And what an exciting mission. If I was younger, I'd want to run off there too and do something like that. I mean, my Spanish needs to be a little bit better, but I know I could brush it up. Hey, let's talk about the... Very difficult situation in Gaza right now. I don't think we can approach that with anything but sympathy for all involved. Certainly there's great suffering there by many different parties. And I know you were one of those folks who raised his hand and said, hey, I will help with some of that Gaza relief and did that mission, at least for some time. Can you tell me a little bit about your experience with the Gaza relief mission? And are you comfortable sharing any lessons learned from your time? 00:12:20 ISMAEL LOPEZ Yeah, so it was very interesting when the Gaza relief mission kicked off for several reasons, right? The challenge there, very, very dynamic event, very tragic event. And then on one hand, we have to support our ally in Israel. But on the other hand, great suffering occurring to the people in Gaza as a result of the mission out there. So the struggle within DOD at the time was, what should we do from an ATA perspective to help those that are suffering in Gaza? So when we look at it from within DSCA, we were really waiting for inputs from OSD and even the NSC as to what is an appropriate humanitarian aid response. One that's not going to undermine our partner. But at the same time, sending a strong message to the people in Gaza and the international community that the United States is not going to sit idly by while people are suffering. So it's a very delicate balance that had to be found. So from an access property standpoint, I was looking into what could we do and how close could we get to provide items from the inventory that could provide life -saving support or even just support for those that are being displaced. into neighboring countries. What ended up happening was we, DSCA, specifically the humanitarian aid and the humanitarian demining division, was ordered to reallocate all the ODACA funding that had already been provided to the combative commands and used to support the Gaza relief missions, specifically the maritime bridge. So we had to deliver the bad news to the combative commands, like, hey, Any money that you have not obligated at this point, we have to pull. You were going to utilize that specifically for this mission. Concurrently, we had to assume risk. This was in the summer, right? Heading into the peak of hurricane season. So we had to decide what number were we comfortable with holding back in the event that a hurricane hit or earthquake hit and we knew it was coming and a partner was going to ask for assistance. And we wouldn't necessarily have the ability to ask Congress for additional funding. It was a fine balance there. At the end of the day, we ended up avoiding any major hurricanes in the Caribbean where a partner asked for support. So avoided that. We were able to support the Gaza Relief Mission, specifically the Maritime Pier, getting aid out there, providing those flight hours, the ship hours, getting aid as close as possible. But then we had to stop supporting that because the bridge was not as structurally sound as we all thought it was going to be. And we've been looking at other avenues of providing that support to the people of Gaza, primarily through our partners. The other challenge there is we can't actually enter an area of conflict for obvious reasons. So that added another layer of complexity to support the mission. But as we can and as we are allowed to, we continue to provide support. CENTCOM has been great identifying requirements and coordinating with the SCA to ensure that the folks that need that aid are getting that aid from us. 00:15:49 BRIAN HANCOCK That's great. It's a tricky situation. It goes out to everyone involved, but I'm glad there are folks out there like yourself who are doing what we can do to try and provide some support. Looking after civilians in conflict is a core part of what we do in civil affairs, no matter what branch you happen to be in as a civil affairs officer. So that is fantastic. I'd like to talk a little bit about one of the differences in the Army and the Marine Corps for civil affairs officers, such as yourself, and I'm beside myself, is that as a Marine civil affairs officer, 00:16:19 ISMAEL LOPEZ and I'm 00:16:22 BRIAN HANCOCK a Marine civil affairs officer, you at some point have to return to your primary branch. Whereas I can continue as a... civil affairs officer for the rest of my career if I choose to. Do you see that changing? Clearly there is a need for career professionals such as yourself to be able to stay in that MOS. What are your thoughts on that? 00:16:41 ISMAEL LOPEZ So this is the same thing with the foreign area officers, the Marine Corps. We have to go back and forth and because the primary mission of the Marine Corps is to support the infantry, right? I can make an argument for how Fayos and civil affairs does that too, but that's a harder conversation to have at the top. But I'm not sure if the, once the 17XX MOS is fully approved and implemented, how that's going to look for officers. Are they going to be able to just stay on that track? I've heard maybe it's going to happen. I've heard, no, it's not going to happen. So it's hard to say. 00:17:20 BRIAN HANCOCK it's hard to say. I saw a pre -decisional slide on that, which showed a glide path moving between civil affairs and PSYOP and space operations, 00:17:33 BRIAN HANCOCK operations, et cetera, all the way up to full kernel. That gave me the impression that it would become a career, though you would move around within that. But how things are rolled out, you know, the devil's in the details. 00:17:47 ISMAEL LOPEZ in the details. We shouldn't be bouncing back and forth because then you lose credibility in the field on both sides of it, right? So I am, by trade, a tank officer. 00:17:47 BRIAN HANCOCK in the details. 00:17:56 ISMAEL LOPEZ I no longer have an MOS in the Marine Corps because we did away with tanks. But if I'm out of tanks for three years because I'm serving in a civil affairs capacity or as a foreign area officer, and to say I did my company command time and I come back in and now I'm vying for a staff job or vying for battalion command, me being gone hurts me. It doesn't help me. 00:18:19 BRIAN HANCOCK Right. They see it like an additional duty. All of the Marine Corps civil affairs officers and NCOs I work with have been nothing but extremely professional and competent. So that is really a shame that that kind of stigma follows. 00:18:34 BRIAN HANCOCK But I see the chain of logic there. If we are forced to flow through it, the Marine Corps is very agile, turns a little faster than the Army. You've stood up these meth information groups. Where are you going to get the professionals to fill those ranks? At some point, we want to fill them with Marines instead of Army contractors. Right. 00:18:52 ISMAEL LOPEZ Right. 00:18:52 BRIAN HANCOCK So this is a capability to do that if you can stay in that field and move through these MOSs. You get three MOSs for the price of one. I thought it was a great idea. 00:19:02 ISMAEL LOPEZ Yeah. And I hope what you saw is correct. I think that's great. But I also see a challenge with civil affairs, psyops, MISO, very different capabilities. We all work within the information realm. You can't necessarily have a psyoper doing civil affairs and you can't have a civil affairs practitioner doing psyops because the way we approach that is not the same. And that in and of itself is challenging. So I think the Marine Corps really has to work and think through that because there is the influence Marine, which is a Marine that's trained in psyops, cyber and civil affairs. But it's going to take a level of maturity and professional understanding to do each one of those roles and stay in that lane without crossing over and potentially losing your credibility within one of those hats. I could totally see it in a civil engagement where all of a sudden now, because I am a PSYOP -er or because I have my PSYOP hat on, I'm thinking now through the threat lens. well, I'm supposed to be having this friendly conversation. Now it gets out of hand and the person I'm speaking to probably doesn't trust me as much as they initially did. That takes a lot of role -playing, a lot of training, a lot of reinforcing of this is what it is you're doing, vice the other. Yeah. 00:20:25 BRIAN HANCOCK Yeah. Well said. We're hitting the end of our time, so I'm going to ask you my last question, and that's next for Ishmael Lopez. 00:20:34 ISMAEL LOPEZ So I'm actually rotating out of... first civil affairs group. And I'm going to be joining Six Anglico up in Seattle, Washington joint base. Louis McCord, actually. I'm going to be a salt leader and then potentially transitioning to be the executive officer there. And this is part of the, I have to go back to my primary MOS, even though I don't have one. So I'm not in civil affairs for too long as it hurts my career progression. On the DSCA side of things, We're adding the civil affairs liaison title responsibilities to me specific to humanitarian aid and ODACA. So I'm going to be working closely with the combatant commands, country teams, hopefully the civil affairs schoolhouses across the services to provide HA specific training for civil affairs. And this is just a capability gap that I identified a year ago. So DSCA, we provide training to security cooperation professionals. But what they do is very different than what civil affairs does. So tailoring the training for the civil affairs audience. So very excited about the new opportunity. That's outstanding. 00:21:48 BRIAN HANCOCK outstanding. And I think you've identified a good opportunity there. I graduated from the civil military operations planners course there at Moss, and we didn't spend much time on this. It's a short course, of course, and you can't do everything. A little bit more robust opportunity for HADR and ODACA. Those are nothing but win -win missions, and you do them at every phase of conflict, including competition. So huge opportunity there. Whoever ends up getting you is going to be very lucky. You're an amazing Marine and a great person. So thank you for taking your time. If the audience has questions, feel free to write to One Civil Affairs Podcast, and we'll do our best to make a connection. Thanks again for your time, Ishmael, and have a good evening, Al. 00:22:39 ISMAEL LOPEZ Thank you so much, Brian. Thank you for the opportunity, and very kind.

Welcome to the One CA Podcast. Today, Brian Hancock interviewed Ismael Lopez about OHDACA and Humanitarian Relief and his experiences as a Marine Civil Affairs Officer.  Brian's profile: https://www.linkedin.com/in/brian-j-hancock/ Ismael's profile: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ishrlopez/  Transcript available below. --- One CA is a product of the civil affairs association  and brings in people who are current or former military, diplomats, development officers, and field agents to discuss their experiences on the ground with a partner nation's people and leadership. We aim to inspire anyone interested in working in the "last three feet" of U.S. foreign relations.  To contact the show, email us at CApodcasting@gmail.com  or look us up on the Civil Affairs Association website at www civilaffairsassoc.org --- Great news! Feedspot, the podcast industry ranking system rated One CA Podcast as one of the top 10 shows on foreign policy. Check it out at: https://podcast.feedspot.com/foreign_policy_podcasts/ --- Special Thanks to the creators of Jazz & Bossa Cafe for the sample of Positive March Music. Retrieved from https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PHeCxa0rMQ4 --- Transcript: 00:00:05 BRIAN HANCOCK Welcome to One Civil Affairs Podcast. I'm Lieutenant Colonel Brian Hancock, and I will be your host for this session. Today we have with us Major Ismael Lopez to discuss civil affairs, special missions, and the ongoing relief effort in the Gaza Strip. Mr. Lopez is the Excess Property Program Manager for the Defense Security Cooperation Agency. He's also a major in the United States Marine Corps Reserve. where he serves as the Latin American Foreign Area Officer and Detachment Commander with the 1st Civil Affairs Group. At DSCA, he oversees ODACA -funded Humanitarian Assistance, HA, supporting disaster relief and capacity -building efforts in over 28 countries, including the responses in the Afghanistan refugee crisis, the Ukrainian crisis, and humanitarian support to Gaza. In his expanded role, he acts as a liaison for civil affairs, focusing on training, project continuity, and aligning civil affairs efforts with strategic goals. 00:01:09 BRIAN HANCOCK With over 15 years of experience in security cooperation, Mr. Lopez has supported humanitarian assistance operations globally, including key relief efforts following Hurricanes Irma, Maria, and Iota. Major Lopez, welcome to the show. 00:01:25 ISMAEL LOPEZ Thank you, Brian. 00:01:26 BRIAN HANCOCK Boy, you've been busy. 00:01:27 ISMAEL LOPEZ I certainly have. Unfortunately, I've been really busy to do the things that I love. 00:01:32 BRIAN HANCOCK Now, let's talk a little bit about this mysterious full -time job that you do, the excess property manager for a defense security cooperation agency. Security cooperation being one of the three most important missions in the world, in my opinion. Can you tell us a little bit about what you do as the excess property manager? And if you're in the business of giving away property, how do I sign up for this? 00:01:54 ISMAEL LOPEZ What's funny is that, as you mentioned that, There is a running joke down at the Southcom HA office where they say, if you need a new refrigerator, Ish is the guy to call. Basically, what I do in a nutshell is I work with the combat commands and all the way down to the country teams to identify partners, to provide them non -lethal excess property in an effort to achieve very specific objectives in the country. What the program does is it'll take items that are basically pretty much brand new to a little bit of wear and tear, which we can refurbish in our warehouses. And then we issue them out or we donate them to the partner with the intention of meeting a very specific objective in that country. So aside from that, I also support DOD humanitarian aid efforts for any initiatives that are... utilizing the overseas humanitarian disaster and civic aid. So in a nutshell, that's pretty much what I do. And yeah, if you need a fridge, if you need a microwave, if there is an effect that could be achieved by me donating it to you, sure. 00:03:06 BRIAN HANCOCK We're expanding NATO a little bit. And many of the NATO countries, about 32 of them, they're putting a little bit more money into defense these days for a wide variety of reasons. And if they decide they want to send up a new office somewhere in Poland or something like that, How would they go about saying, hey, all those esks and chairs and things that you have in Dermo, we'd like some of that. And who pays the shipping? 00:03:29 ISMAEL LOPEZ The folks sitting in NATO would have to work with ODC and Poland first. They will validate that requirement, then submit it on up to UCOM. UCOM will have their lawyers look at it. And then from there, it will make its way up to DSCA for execution. Now, what pays for all this is the Odaka appropriations that gets earmarked from the Odaka budget that provides transportation for this program. So the program comes at no cost. It's all funded exclusively through the Odaka appropriation. 00:04:05 BRIAN HANCOCK Awesome. Let me talk a little bit more about that and ask you a few questions. Odaka is kind of a hidden gem that a number of us in the civil affairs community know about. Many other people don't, and you can definitely achieve effects with this, especially in competition, which is something that we're, I think, as a joint combined army, really struggling with, is how we get after having those influence and deterrence effects in the competition phase. ODACA is one of those tools that's available to us. It's the Overseas Humanitarian Disaster and Civic Aid Fund. Now, I have very limited experience with that program. Can you tell the audience a little bit more about the ODACA creation, how large it is, what it usually funds? 00:04:54 ISMAEL LOPEZ Yeah, absolutely. I'm able to see it from two perspectives, right? I'm able to see this from my seat at DSCA and then my seat in the reserve component as a civil affairs officer, where to your earlier point, ODACA is a bit of this hidden gem and it could be leveraged to help. achieving effects in the competition phase, but where there are issues is the lack of understanding of what you can and cannot do with the appropriation or how you can actually link it to creating those effects. And I get that because rewind the clock back to 2013 when I first delved into civil affairs, one of the metrics that are utilized to determine our success in country is How many projects can you nominate or how many projects did you complete? So then when you're aiming to achieve or hit that metric, you're not necessarily looking at the linkage. You're almost betting on that someone will create that linkage for you that you're providing the activity in support of. So Odaka, generally speaking, we're looking at about $26 to $30 million a year. But then that money... gets divvied up across the combatant commands and is prioritized based off of national defense strategy. So if it's called out very specifically country X or region Y is the priority when it comes to DoD humanitarian aid efforts, then preponderance of that money will be earmarked for that country or that region globally. Once you pull the thread on that, then there's different tiers. for the countries that are located in that combatant command or in that region of the world, and we're able to allocate money for those countries as well. Where it gets tricky is that what will factor into it is how proactive and how thorough the ODCs and the SCOs are with executing those HA projects and then the end -use monitoring piece of it. So their requirements are tied to these project nominations. The country team, the HA managers, the civil affairs teams that are assigned to or are deployed in that country are not providing the feedback necessary to determine the return on investment. Then the following year, what could end up happening is this country is a priority, but what we're not able to tell Congress is, are we actually achieving the effects that we're desiring in that country or in that region? And if we can't answer that with tangible metrics, then that will factor into a reduction of ODACA funding for the following year. Recently, in Indo -PACOM, the focus has been very heavy on the mill -to -mill engagement piece. What is starting to catch up now is the sieve mill piece. And so we have money allocated, but they're sort of playing catch up with the rest of the COCOMs as it pertains to. getting those funds and then executing projects and us being able to sustain them over an extended period of time. 00:08:01 BRIAN HANCOCK Yeah, it is a challenging problem set. One of the taskers that we get annually here in our command is to measure the strategic effect of DACA projects, which are largely tactical, in a bunch of different countries. and were given one week. Now you've got a rotational force here of about 15 civil affairs folks of various persuasions. Maybe a couple of them can be dedicated to that task. They had nothing to do with the inception of these projects. They were not part of the construction. They saw none of the... assessment or staff estimate documents related to them. All they saw was probably, if they're lucky, the proposal that went into the website to get them. And they don't have time to do extensive interviews or measurement. And it's pretty tricky to take something very tactical and then indicate not as an MOP you completed the project, but as an MOE it actually influenced the local populace towards U .S. and NATO objectives. That is a very tough thing to do mathematically, especially without the data, documents, and time to be able to do that. 00:09:18 ISMAEL LOPEZ is a 00:09:28 BRIAN HANCOCK What is the standard that is accepted by the panel who's controlling those funding and appropriations? What realistically do you have to prove? 00:09:39 ISMAEL LOPEZ So this has been a challenge for several years now. I saw it firsthand. As a civil affairs team leader in the South Com AOR, where I deployed to support a very specific commander, but as a, hey, by the way, while you're down there, there's these products that were funded several years ago. Do you mind taking a look? No context behind it. I can't do pre and post surveys on the local populace because I don't know what it was or what the baseline was prior to the construction or the completion. And then now. So it was very arbitrary. It was very much, yeah, it's good. Is the government still funding it? Sure. Are they employing people that are maintaining it? Sure. And I think back then, 2013, 2014 timeframe, I think the blanket answer to all that was, we're countering Russia, China. And so as long as you were saying that, then it was all gravy. And we've obviously have evolved from that to we're now tying these very tactical actions. to operational objectives, right? So are we supporting CoCom LOEs? And if we're supporting CoCom LOEs at the minimum, we understand that we should be integrated into strategic objectives, right? Because the LOEs are derived from those strategic documents. And we've gotten to that point, but now where we are able or unable to get that data or the metrics. really falls on the lack of funding to do it. So the easy button is, well, you have your security cooperation professionals that are assigned to the embassies. They should be. They can do that. Yeah. But the reality is all embassies, regardless of the size, they are overextended and under -resourced. So they're always dealing with VIP visitors. They're dealing with taskings from the State Department. They have their steady state activities they have to be supporting, and they're falling in on, let's just say, 30 projects over the last three years. And, oh, by the way, all these assessments need to be done, but your TDY funds are X. And there's no way of doing it. So then it trickles down to, hey, do we have any civil affairs teams coming downrange? Can they support? And I think we've gotten to a bit of a sweet spot. is this mutual understanding that civil affairs teams in country, as long as they're not being detracted from their main mission, are able to provide some sort of support in conducting those surveys and assessments. However, it's still not the right answer because they're falling in on rudimentary information, background information, and it's still very much from their perspective. At DSCA, we have increased our budget for AM &E purposes to help country teams that are in the red, so to speak, when it comes to conducting these assessments, especially countries that are a priority where we understand, hey, we need to continue engaging on the HA side of things and not the MIL side of things. So we need to get as close to valid or reality as we can. So we have contractors now that are assigned to the combat commands, folks within my office that can. be requested to go out and support. And again, we're working across the command and commands to see as appropriate where we can support. So a lot of work still has to be done there. But again, looking back to 10 years ago, even five years ago, I think across the board, DOD has gotten significantly better at providing metrics to validate activities vice. simply stating we're countering Russia and China and we're going to call it good. 00:13:35 BRIAN HANCOCK As they should. All of these projects should be tied to a line of effort, tied to a strategic effect that's in line both with the COCOM and the chief of mission. And then you would need a way to measure them at a granular level and then aggregate them to measure progress against a line of effort aligned to strategic intent. I don't think that framework has been built. I hope we eventually get there. If you ask some of the SCAs in the embassy, at best, they're going to give you anecdotal information. So there's a lot of things that we would have to do. And if we send a civil affairs team, depending on their training and background, that can be more or less successful. Now, you're probably tracking that in the Army side of civil affairs, we've built that 38 golf program where I can have an engineer with 20 years of experience. It seems to me that's the guy we should be attaching. to a civil affairs team to go do one of these assessments. What do you think? 00:14:33 ISMAEL LOPEZ I completely agree with that. And that's 100 % a step in the right direction. On the Marine side of the house, we sell the capability for civil affairs to do engineering assessments, bridge assessments. And I'm like, who here is an engineer? Who amongst us realistically do that? I mean, one example is I got asked to do a port assessment in Panama. And if you look at the J -SIMS form, It's very, very specific, very detailed, talking depth of water. And how am I supposed to do that? But A, because you're in the environment and you're there, you claim as a capability that you're able to do that, then go on and do great things. And I think one of two things need to happen. Either one, we need to re -wicker the capability to a more realistic set or... Very similar to the 38 golf program is start incorporating or cross -training those specialized folks that can actually bring that capability to bear and then have that as part of the team. And then now we're being more honest with what it is that we can do in our assessments and the information that we're providing to hire. Right. 00:15:41 BRIAN HANCOCK I appreciate that. I watched as the Navy discontinued its civil affairs program. Obviously, the Marines are part of the Department of the Navy, so I don't want to. miscommunicate that. But the Navy had its own civil affairs for a while. And when we as the Army Civil Affairs came out and were asked to do port assessments in Rim of the Pacific, quite frankly, we couldn't do it. And we had functional specialists because there's quite a bit of difference between a great engineer who's used to large infrastructure and other things go out and assess the full range of capabilities of a port, especially after a major disaster. We had to bridge that gap. We had to go to German portmasters, which is great when you're working with combined partners. I think that's an opportunity. And they knew this business, soup and nails. They went out there and everything on the Jason and more they did and could even do follow -ups to see the progress as repair work was going on. That was fantastic that we had a joint partner. I don't think we have an organic capability in DOD to do things like that. And when we're talking having to project power to your port of debarkation, that seems like a gap that we need to fill right now. 00:16:59 ISMAEL LOPEZ Yeah, I agree. And I have some good news for you. The Navy is reconstituting their civil affairs program. When we were out at Balakatan in the Philippines last spring, we had a full -up Navy civil affairs team. I was the first of its kind in this reconstituted form, but I was part of a combined Marine Navy team in the Philippines. So Big Navy has realized that understanding where we're going as DOD, that they're bringing it back. And hopefully that's part of the equation there. I hope so. One of the reasons it was closed down is because the way they scoped their mission for Naval Civil Affairs. 00:17:34 BRIAN HANCOCK of the reasons it was closed down is because the way they scoped their mission for Naval Civil Affairs. was somewhat redundant with what the Army and the Marine Corps were already doing. So instead of focusing on those things where they have almost unique capabilities, such as assessing aquaculture and water -based commerce and those effects and the port stuff, they were doing a lot of land -based types of assessments and other things. And I think they became a victim of budget shortfall if they were seen as a redundant capability. both in the Army and the Marine Corps, you and I both have responsibility since we both need naval partners to do our job to help shape their burgeoning program and make sure as it's resetting that it doesn't make some of the mistakes that were made previously and help them be a vibrant addition to our larger civil affairs community because I think we really need them. 00:18:32 ISMAEL LOPEZ I wholeheartedly agree. There are fortunate scenarios. When you look at the reserve component where you can have these very uniquely trained individuals that can come in. I had a ship captain as a corporal, so he could speak to that. But that is luck, right? I shouldn't be planning on, I'm going to have these uniquely talented and experienced folks that are going to be able to pour a mission set. Now, 00:19:01 BRIAN HANCOCK you're a major in the United States Marine Corps Reserve. and you serve as commander of Detachment 3, the first civil affairs group. What is that like? What's a day look like on that job for you? 00:19:15 ISMAEL LOPEZ So at first, it's been the funnest job that I've had. I was a civil affairs team leader before, but as a commander, it's been more fulfilling because I'm able to... lead and mentor Marines who are interested in this space or really want to make a difference and have a better understanding of how their actions support operational and strategic objectives. I think that's often missed by the less experienced civil affairs Marines. My typical day as a commander is just dealing with admin, to be honest. It's making sure that my Marines are able and ready to deploy, enabling them to be able to go and execute the mission. is really what I spend a majority of my time doing. 00:20:01 BRIAN HANCOCK Let's talk a little bit more about that training piece. I know you kind of build it. A lot of things you do as admin, but part of readiness is being able to do your job. The Marine is an expeditionary force, perhaps becoming even more expeditionary with the expeditionary advanced base operations construct the chief of the Navy signed off on. So very interesting training opportunities for the fleet right now. And you mentioned Balakatan and some of those other exercise -type missions that you've done. And I know you've probably done Marine Corps Warfighting exercise and mentioned JRTC. But what are some of these other missions you've done? You've talked about a dock -up. A dock -up is joined at the hip with Humanitarian Assistance and Disaster Relief, HADR. The Navy has a huge role in HADR for just a whole bunch of reasons. Has your detachment participated in any HADR missions? Is that another training opportunity that you have with your Marines and detachment?

Today, we welcome Colleen Ryan from OSCE, border training and management. We brought her on today to discuss the current challenges of border security in Europe.  --- One CA is a product of the civil affairs association  and brings in people who are current or former military, diplomats, development officers, and field agents to discuss their experiences on the ground with a partner nation's people and leadership. We aim to inspire anyone interested in working in the "last three feet" of U.S. foreign relations.  To contact the show, email us at CApodcasting@gmail.com  or look us up on the Civil Affairs Association website at www civilaffairsassoc.org --- Great news! Feedspot, the podcast industry ranking system rated One CA Podcast as one of the top 10 shows on foreign policy. Check it out at: https://podcast.feedspot.com/foreign_policy_podcasts/ --- Special thanks to the site "Rockstar Beats" for the sample of Taylor Seift "Midnight." Retrieved from: https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLXyd0iAdUYUWN7ifYYoqymNqJsaE0vEDC&si=-Vp6gUuRpqpHq66D   --- Transcript: 00:00:04    Introduction Welcome to the 1CA Podcast. This is your host, Jack Gaines. 1CA is a product of the Civil Affairs Association and brings in people who are current or former military, diplomats, development officers, and field agents to discuss their experiences on ground with the partner nation's people and leadership. Our goal is to inspire anyone interested in working the last three feet of foreign relations. To contact the show, email us at capodcasting@gmail.com. Or look us up on the Civil Affairs Association website at www.civilaffairsassos.org. I'll have those in the show notes. 00:00:39    Colleen Ryan My name is Colleen Ryan. I'm currently the Border Advisor to the OSC in Vienna. I'm seconded by the United States. So I do need to make it clear that I'm not speaking on behalf of the OSC or on the broader political or organizational context right now. I'm specifically focusing on my work and my experiences. Wow. You're seconded? What does that mean? Yeah, I'm essentially loaned out by the U .S. to the OSCE to serve in this role. They pay my salary. 00:01:13    Jack Nice. How did you get nominated? Where do you normally work? 00:01:15    COLLEEN RYAN In a past life, I was a police officer back in the U .S. before transitioning to working internationally. So I came to find out about OSCE and opportunities while I was doing my master's back in the States. And then I just ended up applying for the special monitoring mission to Ukraine. So I was out there as a monitoring officer up until Russia's full -scale invasion. And then went back during the war with a non -governmental organization working on humanitarian protection in the South. And then made my way to this current role. That's great. So you've been part of living history in a way. Yeah, to be out in Donetsk up until a couple days before the invasion. Working with border guards all across Europe and the changing security landscape has been an interesting role so far. 00:02:04    JACK GAINES So you've lived what soldiers call the moment before. There's a feel in the air, and it makes you edgy, it makes you a little twitchy, because you know that you're about to go down with an enemy. And so did you get that sense? Did you get that feel that things were coming close in Donetsk? 00:02:23    COLLEEN RYAN We were there at the time to monitor the Minsk agreements, which was a ceasefire at the time. It wasn't until when the U .S. evacuated all U .S. personnel that you started to realize that, you know, it may actually happen. 00:02:36    JACK GAINES Right. And so your current position is now training the border guards of Ukraine. 00:02:44    COLLEEN RYAN Yes, I manage a project that trains border guards across the OSCE, specifically on detecting porch documents and imposters. So if it's a forged passport presented at the airport or at the road crossing or for the train, we train the border guards, whether it's from Ukraine, Moldova, Bulgaria, Albania. So it really depends on the needs of OSC participating states in this realm. It's obviously a field that requires recurrent training because travel documents like passports are constantly updated. that national authorities can stay ahead of forgers. So it is something that we have to continue training on. And with the current war against Ukraine, they have the most need. They're one of the bigger border services in Europe. And then just the need in terms of half their border guard is currently engaged in combat operations, while you have the rest who are working to secure their western and southern borders and the surge in western and southern border crossings with the closure of Ukraine's airspace. You know, all of that contributes to an ongoing need for these skills and updated training on detecting passport forgeries and detecting imposters. And then you see that on the flip side with Moldova, they've seen a surge in the border crossings because a lot evacuated from Ukraine into Moldova. A lot of humanitarian NGOs and other people now fly into Kijanel to go to Ukraine. And so they've seen just a huge... spike in terms of the number of travel documents and also diversity in terms of different countries, different types of documents. And so that's why we've also been training Moldovan border police as well. 00:04:29    JACK GAINES Sure. So you're there to teach them how to spot forged documents, but is there also a follow on either by that nation's foreign affairs office or their law enforcement that tries to find the forger and remove them? 00:04:43    COLLEEN RYAN Yeah, there is very likely follow on. in terms of criminal investigations when they find forged documents or if they identify an imposter. But our project primarily focuses on those who are working on the first line and second line document checks to just spot the person posing as someone else. And then we do some work with the forensic experts after the fact to make sure that they've got that next level of training as part of their investigations. But primarily it's focusing on the first and second line officers. 00:05:14    JACK GAINES I'm sure they see all kinds of crazy stuff. Everything from the amateur glue stick to people who actually have passport printer creating forged documents. 00:05:24    COLLEEN RYAN Yeah, it's sad and it's also really interesting, the surge in the use of artificial intelligence and seeing the ways that they're incorporating things like morphing into the passport to their forgeries where two people can now travel on one passport using morphing images and things like that. It really just shows how quickly this field in terms of document forgeries is evolving and how much border services are struggling to keep up and to maintain their training so they can spot these techniques. Right, which is why they're starting to put chips and other special films that have a radio signature and stuff like that. 00:05:53    JACK GAINES they're starting to put chips and other special films that have a radio signature and stuff like that. You could print it, but to actually find those films or chips that have that radio signature has got to be a lot tougher. 00:06:08    COLLEEN RYAN Yeah, and a lot of it is just down to, like, Order guards are under a lot of stress and pressure and they don't have much time to spot the fakes. They're getting crushed by people. Yeah. So a lot of it is just making sure that they can spot some of these easier to identify orgery trends and to make a quicker decision before it gets to the point of really having to do an in -depth examination of the document. 00:06:32    JACK GAINES Yeah, I would imagine that you would see forgery trends because people would be going to the same forger and they would be doing similar patterns until that turned away. 00:06:41    COLLEEN RYAN Yeah. 00:06:41    JACK GAINES And what's it like working with all these different border guards from different countries? I mean, everyone has got to be a little different, but the same. 00:06:49    COLLEEN RYAN For me, it's interesting because I'm one of the few who has worked in policing, worked in this operational arena, kind of understands a lot of what they've done. And so you kind of speak the same language. It's interesting to hear from them, like what they view as their biggest security challenges and what their biggest day -to -day challenges are in terms of their work life. Because you see common trends across a lot of the services. A lot of them can be underpaid and that contributes to staff turnover. And so then that means you go back to a country to do more training because you have new staffs. But then to see how a country's security... You know, their perspective in terms of their biggest border security threats in Albania, where I trained in June, might be different from Bulgaria, where I trained last month. But, you know, it's still the commonalities of document forgeries, imposters, making sure your airports are secure and things like that. So I like talking with the border guards, such a different perspective across each country. Right. 00:07:51    JACK GAINES I think that's really helpful that you have a law enforcement background. helps break that ice. 00:07:58    COLLEEN RYAN I understand the perspective, but we're really just there to help and to fill the gaps that their service might not have the time or the funding to provide additional training because they've got the whole spectrum of border security issues to deal with within their service. And so that's where our organization or other international organizations doing these types of projects come in is just fill the gaps and help them develop their capacity. Especially with some other countries we train for where Frontex, maybe they're not working in that country. So then we can help supplement other EU or Frontex or IOM or UN initiatives and help to harmonize border security standards across Europe, South Caucasus, Central Asia. 00:08:45    JACK GAINES I don't want to just keep circling around Ukraine. Is there any stories you have from some of the other countries you worked with? What's your favorite beer hall story on those? 00:08:53    COLLEEN RYAN Yeah, I mean, most of my stories are with Ukraine because I've trained Ukraine so much. So I'm happy to talk about that. Yeah, I feel very fortunate so far in the last year and a half to have trained almost 50 Ukraine border guards. And I was able to go to meet with their administration and their main forensic center in June to do a needs assessment to see how we could keep supporting. to make sure we weren't duplicating efforts from other international organizations or other bilateral initiatives there because we do know it's a crowded space there. 00:09:28    JACK GAINES I'm sure talking to them, you could figure out pretty quickly what those border guards needed, even if they were getting training from two or three organizations, if they weren't hitting it on the head. Yeah. And what was nice for us is we were able to actually shadow them on their train from out west as entered from. 00:09:38    COLLEEN RYAN was nice for us is we were able to actually shadow them on their train from out west as entered from. Shamashil, Poland, and went to Lviv. And so we got to board on the Ukrainian side and just seeing what they're dealing with in terms of doing document checks aboard the trains now and the different challenges they have with that as opposed to what it would be like to check a document at the airport. It's a very different perspective and it gives you insights on things like lighting and being able to see different security features in the passport. With the lighting on the train and the time of day when they're doing the document check, the technical equipment that they have aboard and that may not be connecting to the cell tower or have service as the train moves. And so it gives you a different perspective to actually be there and see it instead of just hearing about it over a Zoom call or in a sterile training environment. And so then building on that. We've been able to take some of those lessons learned and put them into our training where we're encouraging them and reminding them to say, hey, how would you see this in different types of light settings, running different types of simulations, so it more accurately reflects the conditions that they'll be doing the document checks in. So what's coming up next? 00:10:57    JACK GAINES What's the future of training? Do you have anything interesting coming up that you want to promote? 00:11:02    COLLEEN RYAN Yes, through the rest of the year, we have a couple more study visits. And these are important because they help the border guards to learn from other counterparts. They will look through how this country that they're visiting manages their forgery desk at an airport or in their border service. And it really helps with networking and sharing more information in terms of what they're seeing in terms of detecting trends or alerts on forged documents. We've got a couple of study visits coming up next week. I'll be in Madrid with another group from Ukraine. The following week, I'll be with Albania and Milan. And then a week after that, I'll be in Dublin, Ireland with forensic experts from Ukraine's border service to round out the year. So it's a busy stretch right now. That's very cool. 00:11:50    JACK GAINES Do these multinational engagements, do they ever end up with countries with border guards doing a bilateral agreement on border protection? Or do they ever work on... building something like Eurogest, where if they find a forger from multiple countries, they'll work together to try to find out where the route is. Is that multinational cooperation starting to build, or have you seen it? 00:12:14    COLLEEN RYAN On a smaller level with us, we do see that. So at the operational level with these border guards, even in -country, being able to message colleagues around their own country. Or the experts that do our trainings are active document experts serving in their border service. So now they've got another resource, say, if we're using experts from Spain or the Netherlands or UK or Italy, then these trainees now have another resource to flag potential trends and forge documents or to ask questions if they're unsure. And then, you know, moving ahead, we'll be looking to do some more joint training between two or three countries. Especially if we do it with bordering countries, it will really help that collaboration to, say, connect the two participating states. And now they've got operational contacts to ping across the border to say, hey, we're seeing this. What are you seeing? Things like that. So it's a good opportunity for us to foster that collaboration and increase the information sharing with us through the training or study visits. Right. Because it's so important to have that contact. 00:13:23    JACK GAINES to have that contact. It's one thing when you see an issue and you want to reach out and you have to make that cold call and figure out who's the right person. It's better if you've made a contact, you know someone from training, you can just say, hey, what's this and what's going on? And they can just plug you in with the right person and then Zoom. You know, a problem's fixed versus making it a whole, oh, you have to talk to our embassy and our embassy has to write our embassy. And so it's great that those kind of cross -border contacts are being made because. Even though so much of Europe is dominated by the Schengen, there's still issues with legal immigration and criminal movement that each country still monitors what's going on and partners. And then those that are outside the Schengen zone, it's just as important for them to actually have that contact so they can partner and work on things to quickly spot forgeries, theft, criminal activity, then stop it before it becomes rampant. So that's awesome. 00:14:22    COLLEEN RYAN And it's just it's it's the first building block of really increasing that cooperation, especially with your neighboring state and contributing towards that angle of integrated border management and jointly managed VCP. So even being able to have frontline document inspectors from two neighboring countries being able to reach out, that's just your first building block to building that relationship. So, yeah, it's always useful to have those contacts. Must be fun to be in the middle of it. Yeah. And it's really rewarding. To get your group of border officers on day one, you've got 20 to 30 border officers from all across their country, wherever we're training, they're virtual strangers, and to see them learn to open up and engage and to learn from our experts and then start to share some of their challenges with me and to build those relationships, whether it's in a group or with our experts or with OSCE, it's super rewarding because then you just get to keep building from there and asking, okay, what's next? What do you need next in addition to these document trainings? What do your forensic experts need or what do your border control officers need? So, yeah, it's really rewarding to be able to deliver when you've got the funding and you've got the interest of participating states and to help them manage their borders better. 00:15:37    JACK GAINES You know, we kind of forgot to talk about who OSCE is, Organization for Security Cooperation in Europe. You want to give me a brief overview of what the organization is? Yes. But it does. 00:15:50    COLLEEN RYAN Yeah. So the OSCE is world's largest regional security organization, the state of 57 participating states. And we operate on a consensus -based approach where all participating states have to agree. And we utilize an approach of comprehensive security. And so this really helps us to support our participating states in developing. their security sector and to enhance resilience and to develop capacity to address transnational threats. So my border security management unit is situated within the Transnational Threats Department. So that's our goal is to help participating states build their capacity to confront a wide array of transnational threats that can harm their national security and pan security more broadly. Right. Now, when I think security, I think of NATO. 00:16:38    JACK GAINES I think of NATO. So you've got to be a little different. NATO is, of course, a military organization that deals with security from conflict, either deterrence or response to conflict or crisis, disaster. What is it that OSCE does in terms of security? 00:16:55    COLLEEN RYAN Our three dimensions are political, military, economic and environmental, and human dimension. So what you would traditionally think of as human rights. And so being able to take that comprehensive approach opens up. a library of opportunities for us in terms of what we can provide support on. And so my unit's mandate stems from our border security management concept that the OSC Ministerial Council adopted in 2005. So our mandate in terms of border security is pretty broad. And I think our bread and butter really is helping to develop capacity of our participating states and providing technical assistance. I mean, our unique added value is that we can provide this tailored approach and we're pretty responsive when participating states do approach us with needs. So it's a bit different from NATO since we're not providing military support. We're looking at long -term institutional capacity buildings, whether it's in border security, policing, security sector agencies. That's the core of our work. And can you talk about what the application process was like to get involved? It's different for each job. So OSC, you either have secondments, like when I am on, where your national authority nominates you, or you have the professional contract where OSC directly hires you. So for mine, I had to apply through my seconding authority in the U .S., and I was competing amongst the Americans who wanted to be nominated. And so then once I got past that, then the U .S. put my name forward in the process, and then it was straight into the OSC hiring process. It's a written exam, and then it was an oral interview, and then it's shortlisted, and you go from there. But if it's a contracted offer, obviously you skip the secondment stage of it, and it's applying straight to OSC in the typical HR process. So it's a little different. You just have to look at the job posting and if it's a secondment or not. 00:19:01    JACK GAINES They give you a salary. 00:19:02    COLLEEN RYAN Do they give you a housing allowance? 00:19:02    JACK GAINES give you a housing allowance? 00:19:04    COLLEEN RYAN Yeah, it's about when I was paying in the U .S. The really fun expense was moving my cats over. So that it's a week in a housing allowance. But it's different for contracted. So it really just depends on which job you're going for, contracted or second. 00:19:22    JACK GAINES Had you traveled internationally before you joined this position? 00:19:26    COLLEEN RYAN Yeah, I had traveled quite a bit. Back when I was still a police officer, I liked to take my leave time to go over to Europe. So I did travel a bit. But never officially. It was always first travel. It was always tourist travel. Yeah, no, I had very, very little duty travel as a cop. 00:19:43    JACK GAINES But I bet that travel helped with your application to say, yeah, I've been to Europe and I've toured around, even though I was a tourist. 00:19:50    COLLEEN RYAN Yeah, and travel is just a great educator. And I know it's expensive and not everyone can do it. Travel just gives you good life experience, especially if you're doing it solo and traveling in Europe and interacting with different cultures and just finding your way and being able to navigate and step outside of your American comfort zone. If you're looking to work internationally, in addition, obviously, to the job experience and language and whatnot, travel is just such a good educator and a good way to end your horizons. Right. And I'll tell you what, traveling and living someplace, 00:20:23    JACK GAINES living someplace, It's a whole new experience because you learned the trains when you traveled, but now you got to find out, get a lease and what that takes. 00:20:32    COLLEEN RYAN Yeah. And then if you don't speak German or you don't speak the local English, that adds another layer of complexity. So yeah, you're absolutely right. The difference between living somewhere and traveling is huge. 00:20:43    JACK GAINES But it's fun. And actually, once you've lived overseas, you start to do quirky things, I find. Like, I'll travel and I'll go to a grocery store just to see how they do their business there. Yeah. You know, you go to restaurants, but see how laundry is done or, you know, just how the public services are done because you think, man, if I had to live here, I'd have to drag my trash to the backyard this time. Or over here, they take it on the street or the Germans, they have to have a lockbox. 00:21:12    COLLEEN RYAN What's been really interesting for me is my American friends hear me speak now and they think I'm starting to lose my accent and I can't tell where I'm from or I'll... interact with Europeans over here and they can't quite pick up on my American accent and I think I'm from the UK or Ireland or Australia. So that's been a really interesting experience because I don't think about it. I just talk and just the little things that come when you're living abroad. 00:21:37    SPEAKER_00 Okay. I think we got everything we wanted. Is there anything left that you want to draw on the table? 00:21:44    COLLEEN RYAN As I've mentioned, I firmly believe that any type of security cooperation, defense cooperation is built on relationships and trust. And so there's two of the Ukrainians in particular that I've become close with because they joined our training last year. And then this year they served as trainers for us and they've joined a few study visits. And so through that, we've developed trust and become friends. So now it's gotten to a point where they know I'm a huge Swifty. Oh, no. 00:22:14    SPEAKER_01 no. 00:22:16    COLLEEN RYAN You're a Swifty? Yeah. 00:22:16    SPEAKER_01 a Swifty? 00:22:19    COLLEEN RYAN So they'll ask, oh, what's the Taylor Swift song we should listen to for this trip? Or what's your favorite Taylor Swift song these days? And it's just a funny example of how this all starts with just building those relationships and getting people's trust when you're working with your partner nations. Sure. 00:22:38    SPEAKER_01 I thought maybe you brought Taylor Swift to the border and you couldn't get her across. 00:22:44    COLLEEN RYAN No, but I did give them Taylor Swift friendship bracelets when I was in Ukraine in June. 00:22:50    SPEAKER_01 Oh my gosh. I was going to say, next time you see them, they'll be like, hey, still have my Taylor Swift. They had them in London last week, so they still have them. 00:22:57    COLLEEN RYAN week, so they 00:23:02    SPEAKER_01 They probably feel obligated, like I can't take it off. She'll think less of me. 00:23:10    SPEAKER_01 It was quite funny. Cool. 00:23:14    SPEAKER_01 But yeah, you're right. It's those relationships, right? You build them and then you can reach out and the people are there. It's so much easier than a cold call. So much easier. That's half the job. 00:23:25    COLLEEN RYAN On one hand, you can joke about Taylor Swift, but then on the other, they can come to you with more training needs or more requests for specific areas of engagement. 00:23:34    SPEAKER_01 Yeah, they know they're safe to do it. Yeah, exactly. By just talking to you. Yeah. 00:23:39    SPEAKER_01 Well, cool. Okay. Well, I got it. And I will say just one more thing that I should mention. 00:23:43    COLLEEN RYAN I will say just one more thing that I should mention. I'm able to do all this work because I'm very lucky that the U .S. mission has fully funded my project and recognize the importance of OSCE as a multilateral line of effort to strengthen international security and broaden our engagement. Honestly, the amount of funding they've given me has been a huge boost and really made this work possible. So I feel like I have to give them a shout out here. 00:24:11    SPEAKER_01 Cool. All right, Coley. Well, thanks a bunch. All right.

Today, Sam Cooper, founder of the news outlet The Bureau, guest hosts Christopher Meyer, a former U.S. official and China expert during the Bush One and Two Administrations. Meyer currently serves as the head of the U.S. Micronesia Council and founded Wide Fountain, a platform for in-depth geopolitical analysis.  In this the second of a two-part episode, Sam and Christopher discuss PRC strategic corruption and political warfare. So, let's get started.  Sam Cooper's The Bureau: https://www.thebureau.news/ Christopher Meyer's Wide Fountain platform: https://widefountain.substack.com/ --- One CA is a product of the civil affairs association a and brings in people who are current or former military, diplomats, development officers, and field agents to discuss their experiences on the ground with a partner nation's people and leadership. We aim to inspire anyone interested in working in the "last three feet" of U.S. foreign relations.  To contact the show, email us at CApodcasting@gmail.com  or look us up on the Civil Affairs Association website at www civilaffairsassoc.org --- Great news! Feedspot, the podcast industry ranking system rated One CA Podcast as one of the top 10 shows on foreign policy. Check it out at: https://podcast.feedspot.com/foreign_policy_podcasts/ --- Special thanks to Cozy Ambience for a sample of "February Cafe Jazz - Instrumental Bossa Nova Music for Work, Study and Relax - Background Music" retrieved from https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hmq8Ht-sNwQ --- Today, Sam Cooper, founder of the news outlet The Bureau, guest hosts Christopher Meyer, a former U.S. official and China expert during the Bush One and Two Administrations. Meyer currently serves as the head of the U.S. Micronesia Council and founded Wide Fountain, a platform for in-depth geopolitical analysis.  In this the first of a two-part episode, Sam and Christopher discuss PRC strategic corruption and political warfare. So, let's get started.  Sam Cooper's The Bureau: https://www.thebureau.news/ Christopher Meyer's Wide Fountain platform: https://widefountain.substack.com/ --- One CA is a product of the civil affairs association a and brings in people who are current or former military, diplomats, development officers, and field agents to discuss their experiences on the ground with a partner nation's people and leadership. We aim to inspire anyone interested in working in the "last three feet" of U.S. foreign relations.  To contact the show, email us at CApodcasting@gmail.com  or look us up on the Civil Affairs Association website at www civilaffairsassoc.org --- Special thanks to Cozy Ambience for a sample of "February Cafe Jazz - Instrumental Bossa Nova Music for Work, Study and Relax - Background Music" retrieved from https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hmq8Ht-sNwQ --- Transcript 00:00:01    Introduction Welcome to the One CA Podcast. This is your host, Jack Gaines. One CA is a product of the Civil Affairs Association and brings in people who are current or former military, diplomats, development officers, and field agents to discuss their experiences on ground with the partner nation's people and leadership. Our goal is to inspire anyone interested in working the last three feet of foreign relations. To contact the show, email us at capodcasting@gmail.com. or look us up on the Civil Affairs Association website at www.civilaffairsassoc.org. I'll have those in the show notes. Today we welcome Sam Cooper, founder of the news outlet The Bureau, as he interviews Christopher Meyer, a former U.S. 00:00:44    SAM COOPER official and China expert during the Bush I and II administrations. Meyer currently serves as the head of the U.S. Micronesia Council and is the founder of Wide Fountain. a platform for in -depth geopolitical analysis. This is the first of a two -part episode. Sam and Christopher discuss PRC strategic corruption and political warfare. So let's get started. 00:01:07    SAM COOPER Today I'm excited to introduce Chris Myers. Chris is a longtime China expert and former U .S. government diplomatic and economic issues officer, and he explains how military intelligence and influence networks embedded deeply with organized crime are a central feature of the global strategy employed by the families that really are running communist China. And when I say that, we're going to discuss your research on the family of Xi Jinping, the Xi family, and you call it the Yezi clique. But first, tell our viewers your background in getting into China and your career. 00:01:46    CHRISTOPHER MEYER Thank you very much, Sam. I started a keen interest in China when I was 16. And I read the history of the opium wars and I was outraged. And I decided I wanted a career to be involved in business and diplomacy between the U .S. and China. And then as an undergrad student, I did research on the special economic zones. This was in the early 80s and the special economic zones were just announced. And my research led me to see the geopolitical aspects. There were some. across from Macau, across from Hong Kong, and across from Taiwan. So I sort of had an eye to that. And then I did business. I was, for five years, I was with a Fortune 500 company. And I had the opportunity to do some business in Xiaomon. And I saw some things that set off alarm bells in my mind. And I kind of filed that. And I had some experiences that informed my research later. I worked in the government in Bush 1 and Bush 2. I was involved in Indo -Pacific affairs. really helping American companies do business in the region, and then became a consultant to part of the government that administered our territories in the Pacific. So I saw some things there that, again, set off alarm bells in my mind. And in 2016, I happened to cross an old colleague who kind of gave me some more information. And basically from 2016 until 2022, I conducted a lot of independent research. I decided I wanted to know exactly what was going on because proxies in the region seemed emboldened to take on the U .S. And they didn't have a government portfolio, but they acted like they did. And so my research sort of started in Micronesia. I had the great opportunity to come across your book. You totally informed. parts of what I was looking at and kind of put the spotlight on what happened in Canada. And I kind of worked the two sides to the middle and conducted most recently research that kind of takes us from Mao Zedong's death until the 90s. And I believe that there was a click. I call it the yes, she click. There were scores to settle. There were powerful families that were on the cusp of greatness or recognition for all their good work, and they were purged. And it led some individuals to become extremely militant in their conduct of political warfare against the U .S. So that sort of sets the table for what we might be talking about. 00:04:28    SAM COOPER Yeah. So to get into this, let's start with the Ye family. They're mysterious, but for experts, they're very clearly a clan that has tremendous kingmaking power in China. So maybe let's start with who they are and then bridge into how they connect with Xi's father. 00:04:46    CHRISTOPHER MEYER So the patriarch, Lie Jianying, was literally the kingmaker of Mao Zedong. He came from Guangdong province, and he was involved in the very earliest movements of the Communist Party in China. And he fled one of those, I think it was the Guangzhou uprising, with Zhou Enlai, and they escaped to Hong Kong. So Ye Jianying is one of the original revolutionaries in China, and he had the title of Marshal Ye. And when he crossed paths with Mao Zedong, he was actually the aide -de -camp to a very powerful Communist Party operator out of Beijing who had an army of tens of thousands. And he rolled up to Mao and his very small group of long marchers and said, follow us, we're going to Sichuan province. And Mao was like, no, I don't think that's a safe bet. The locals are going to tear you up. And Ye Jianying kind of heard a truth in Mao and he deserted this powerful general and with him brought the code books. So Mao gets Ye Jianying and the code books and he's able to communicate with the Comintern. And lo and behold, that general did get wiped out in Sichuan. He returned to Mao's base. With a few thousand troops from then, Mao became the most powerful leader in the communist ecosystem. So Ye Jianying had a very high regard for Mao. Mao called him the savior of the Communist Party and the Communist Revolution. And so fast forward it right through the revolution. Ye gets a very top position as the party secretary for Guangdong province, the largest and economically most powerful province in the country. And Mao wants to conduct his land reform in Guangdong, just as he does everywhere. And it's a violent thing where landowners are hunted down and put to death. Yeah, because he was a native Cantonese, understood that the landowners in Guangdong were not of the same ilk as those throughout China. They actually worked the lands. They had a very cooperative relationship with labor. And he tried to resist. But Mao forced Lin Biao into Guangdong. And Ye lost his government role. And if he hadn't been in the military, he would have been completely out of power. But because he had a military portfolio, he was able to stay on the peripheries. And he was actually part of the small group that brought down the Gang of Four and ended the Cultural Revolution. So Ye Jianying went through the Mao Zedong grinder, but he did it so early in the 50s that he was able to... maintain power and have it going forward. Another Long March hero was Xi Jinping's father, Xi Zhong Chun. And his claim to fame in the Communist Party was he maintained security over the area where Mao was camped in Yan 'an. And he was able to provide Mao and his group with enough security that they could camp there through a winter and survive. Not only that, but he negotiated and he conducted diplomacy with the tribesmen in the Northwest, in Qinghai, in Xinjiang, and in Tibet. And he was loved. And he got a lot of rebels and insurgents among these minority populations to join the Communist Party. And Mao gave him great profs for that and referred to him as one of the heroes of the Three Kingdoms period. brilliant statesman who was able to ingratiate with the minorities and make them part of the Chinese nation. Unfortunately, though, Xi Jinping's father, Xi Zhongchun, he was purged, but he was purged later. He was purged in 1962. And from Xi Jinping's age nine until he was 25, Xi Jinping's father was under arrest. Without trial, it was just the culture revolution. He was under arrest because his office published a book that was deemed not flattering to Mao Zedong. Basically, he was promoting some thought within the Communist Party that Mao didn't like. So Xi's father is in jail from 62 to 78. And because Ye Senior and Xi Zhongchun had a relationship, Ye Jianying kind of became a godfather of sorts for Xi Jinping. Xi was sent to work in the countryside and he escaped and he tried to get back to Beijing and it wasn't safe for him to be reunited with his family. And Ye intervened. And Ye made sure that Xi joined the Communist Party, even though these tragedies were all around him, and made sure that he got the semblance of an education, although he really never did. He was a guide for Xi Jinping throughout his younger years. in place of his father. 00:10:02    Sam Cooper Before we continue how those families dovetail together, can you describe in China's political economy, what is the power of Marshal Ye? 00:10:13    CHRISTOPHER MEYER So in the 50s, he was jettisoned out of the political arena. His main work was in the PLA. He was a marshal and he became minister of defense in China. And he was responsible for procurement. And to sort of give you a sense, when the Korean War started, the United Nations put a blockade on trade with China because they were arming the North Korean army. Marshal Yeh was responsible for making sure that supplies got to North Korea. And that was a big role that he fulfilled. And his sons kind of brought that along. So it's curious because Marshal Yeh was one of the most powerful stars in the communist lineup, but he was also a minority. He was from Guangdong and he was a Haka Chinese. So some people would say that Haka Chinese within China, there's a lid sometimes on their ability to move up. And so perhaps he was never considered for the echelon, but he did arise very high. But in some ways, and his sons adopted this even more so, they had to become very combative. in their political dealings. But no doubt about it, Marshal Yeh had a chance to handle huge volumes of military supplies, and there was an opportunity to skim and generate great wealth, which probably was the case. The way that Marshal Yeh fulfilled the supply chains for the North Korean army was through organized crime. And it just happened that two of The individuals, Henry Falk and Stanley Ho, were also Hakka Chinese. And they became the kingpins of organized crime in Hong Kong and Macau. Both of them are on record as saying they made their fortunes supplying the Korean War. 00:12:15    SAM COOPER Right. So people that read my book are very familiar with Stanley Ho, according to U .S. government intelligence. the absolute king of Chinese international mafia with connectivity to casinos, banking, political influence operations in Canada, triad leadership in Canada. So I think we've set the table for the 90s in Guangdong, Fujian. Xi Jinping is now starting to come on the scene politically there. The Ye family, who were partners essentially of Xi's father. had a little bit of a godfather eye on Xi's movements within the party. We can say that they're the power behind a throne that they want to see continue to rise. So can you take us into the 90s, the sort of Stanley Ho connectivity to Chinese People's Political Consultative Conference and how that combines the Hong Kong tycoons slash triad leaders with the communist powers in Fujian? 00:13:21    CHRISTOPHER MEYER Yes. Mao passed away in 78. Deng Xiaoping came to power. And Deng was all about economic reform and catching up to the West. So in southern China, Fujian and Guangdong province, Deng looked to Ye Jenying and his sons. His sons were in their 30s now. And he also looked to Xi Zhongshan. Xi Zhongshan became party secretary for Guangdong province. in the early 80s. And Deng kind of put together this group. The Ye's and the Xi's were family friends. They celebrated Chinese holidays together. The Xi's were northern Chinese, but they kind of encamped in Guangdong province after a certain amount of time. And that's where Xi's father retired. But in Guangdong, the son of Ye, his name was Ye Xuanping. Basically, he was mayor of Guangzhou and the governor of Guangdong. And very quickly, he was referred to as the emperor of the south. So in the 80s, he was running Guangdong province. And he became so powerful that the CCP sought to have him step down. And he actually threatened to withhold tax to Beijing from the province of Guangdong unless they negotiated with him. He wanted a vice chair of the CPPCC, the Chinese People's Political Consultative Committee. And he wants to be a vice governor of the CPPCC. And he wanted to be allowed to maintain his power base in Guangdong. And this is a rare case where the CCP actually deferred to these wishes. Just to get him out of running the most powerful province in China, they said okay. So he goes over the CPPCC. And he takes with him the kingpins of organized crime in Hong Kong and Macau. Stanley Ho never had a position, but Henry Falk and the other top lieutenants in these organized crime entities all wound up on the CPPCC. And to give you a sense of like, what was some of the magic Stanley Ho had when he won the monopoly on gaming in Macau? He devised this VIP room concept where... He owned the casino, but the VIP rooms were run by basically triads and junkets, powerful friends from mainland China and triads. And the triads conducted all kinds of crime that the Vancouver model got in a very big dose. So it was racketeering and prostitution and all kinds of things, but also collections. So Stanley Ho didn't have to work on collections because his muscle did it for him. But the strongest of these triad operators wound up in the CPPCC, as long as they were effective in what they were doing for the government. And 14K is dominated by Hakka Chinese. Most of the most powerful triads have a very strong Hakka element to it. And I don't mean to suggest that this wonderful race of Chinese called Hakkas is all bad. Lee Kuan Yew, the premier of Singapore, was Hakka Chinese. phenomenal Chinese, but there were also some very nefarious and very effective in their criminal activities that were Haka Chinese. So the Ye's were in the middle of this. And Chinese language social media accounts in Hong Kong will talk about the Ye's dominance over these gaming operators in Macau. 00:17:07    SAM COOPER Let's get into that and explore that more. I just want to ask a side question. As I'm aware of a very important figure, in what we call the Hoag Commission in Canada. I'm just going to leave it at that. This is our inquiry into foreign interference that stemmed from my investigative reporting. And there is a politician at the center of that that my sources close to them said went off to a haka conference in China for weeks or something like that, you know, while being an elected politician in Canada. Knowing what you know, and I'm just coming out of the blue with this question, is there anything good for Canada that they could be doing on that trip? 00:17:45    CHRISTOPHER MEYER There could be a lot of normal cultural activity, but I'll say one thing, that the powers that are doing the kinds of things that I'm concerned with are definitely represented in those groups. There might be a wink and a nod and things look very normal on the surface, but there's no free lunch in China. Everybody has to pay the piper, and the piper is the communist party of China. 00:18:11    SAM COOPER So let me ask you this. Viewers of the Bureau know that I've pressed away in journalism in explaining that the United Front Work Department and international money laundering and organized crime are synonymous. They're one and the same. The CIA says the Chinese People's Political Consultative Conference is really the core unit of the United Front. So what you're getting at... I think the Ye family, these power brokers that are behind Xi and his power in southern China, you're saying they essentially formed this United Front and organized crime compact as sort of a political tool, a smuggling tool, a military tool? 00:18:55    CHRISTOPHER MEYER Yes. And I want to say that the United Front was an early Communist Party creation. And the thing about the Communist Party... They infiltrated the Kuomintang. When the Kuomintang had more power and they were the power base in China, the communists used political warfare to infiltrate them and really become their undoing. And the United Front is basically one way to get all parts of society under the control of the CCP. So within the United Front, the CPPCC is sort of the big leagues. And all the other organizations are the feeder groups. So if you get in a small united front group and you deliver in a big way, you can get promoted all the way to this PCC. And Ong Lapsung is an example of that. So the whole idea of the united front is to harness and control all the resources from academia, the private sector. from all aspects of society and to make them work for the Communist Party. And I feel that any united front operation, and there's so many in Canada and the U .S., they should just be called assets of the Chinese government. That's one way for the Chinese to increase their headcount of diplomatic officers within any given country. 00:20:26    Close Thanks for listening. If you get a chance, please like and subscribe and rate the show on your favorite podcast platform. Also, if you're interested in coming on the show or hosting an episode, email us at capodcasting@gmail.com. I'll have the email and CA Association website in the show notes. And now, most importantly, to those currently out in the field working with a partner nation's people or leadership to forward U.S. relations, thank you all for what you're doing. your host. Stay tuned for more great episodes of One CA Podcast.   Episode 2 00:00:01    Introduction Welcome to the 1CA Podcast. This is your host, Jack Gaines. 1CA is a product of the Civil Affairs Association and brings in people who are current or former military, diplomats, development officers, and field agents to discuss their experiences on ground with the partner nation's people and leadership. Our goal is to inspire anyone interested in working the last three feet of foreign relations. To contact the show, email us at capodcasting@gmail.com. or look us up on the Civil Affairs Association website at www.civilaffairsassoc.org. I'll have those in the show notes. Today we welcome Sam Cooper, founder of the news outlet The Bureau, as he interviews Christopher Meyer, a former U .S. 00:00:44    Introduction official and China expert during the Bush 1 and 2 administrations. Meyer currently serves as the head of the U .S. Micronesia Council and is the founder of Wide Fountain. a platform for in -depth geopolitical analysis. This is the second of a two -part episode. Sam and Christopher discuss PRC strategic corruption and political warfare. So let's get started. 00:01:08    SAM COOPER I feel that any United Front operation, and there's so many in Canada and the U .S., they should just be called assets of the Chinese government. That's one way for the Chinese to increase their headcount of diplomatic officers within any given country. And they should be labeled that way and they should be treated that way. And they're conducting operations for China. So to get back to the Ye family, I just want to say very briefly, so Deng Xiaoping taps the older brother, Ye, and he's in the government and he has a nine, 10 -year run in Guangdong. The younger brother, his name is Ye Xuanning. He's the dangerous one. He's a real interesting cat. So, yeah. was in college during the Cultural Revolution. And just to give you an idea of the thin ice that you could be skating on in China, he graduated from college and he was thrown in jail. And he was thrown in jail because, you know, Mao wanted to send a signal to the Ye family, I'm in control here. You're not in control. He got out of jail and he had a job in a radio factory or something like that. And he must have been so distraught, he lost his arm in an accident. throwing boxes into a crusher and he lost his arm. So he became a calligrapher with his left hand. And if you know Chinese, like every time you write calligraphy, your hand is going across what you're writing. If you're left -handed, I don't know how he did it. I'm left -handed. And he became an accomplished calligrapher with his left hand. So it just gives you a sense of the spirit of this guy. He's not your normal. person. I think he was a genius. I think he was extremely hardworking. And one of his first positions, he was involved in a small United Front operation in Beijing. Then he became secretary for Kang Xian, who was sort of the head of the oil faction in China. And he was a very powerful individual. And then he found himself in Guangdong. And when his brother was appointed head of the province and the city of Guangzhou, He got into Espionade, and he became the spymaster for the PLA, working in the GDP. And he really had it. He sort of hit his stride there, and that's how he ended his career. The spymaster for the PLA. I think any other rival couldn't even hold a candle to him. He was totally gifted. And his brother and he were able to leverage all of their... contacts with organized crime because he used them in operations around the world. And I think he's the one who weaponized it to the point where, number one, organized crime figures were making money for the military, a lot of it. And number two, they were almost pre -trained in operations. They were bold. They would go anywhere and do anything. And Aung La Pseung is a good example of that. 00:04:11    CHRISTOPHER MEYER I was going to say, because not everyone knows these names like you and I do, but Enlap Sang, nominally a real estate developer from Macau. My Files, he's a huge international organized crime figure known for the so -called Clinton Gate or White House visits. He's the guy that got next to the Clinton White House or got inside, you know, maybe five to ten times. He ends up getting done, as they say, in a United Nations corruption case, which of course connects to a very important guy in Australia that successfully sued my colleague, John Garneau, and yet is at the top of Chinese organized crime funding Australian politics. He was involved in that FBI case. So to bring it back, what I've picked up in my book and in my repeated reporting efforts at the Bureau is these international Chinese businessmen in real estate and casinos, tech these days, they go around the world, they get next to our politicians, and that's their job. They're being tasked by whoever the Ye family spymaster of today is, is sending them abroad to do that. At some point, Xi Jinping comes into this and says it's okay. 00:05:30    SAM COOPER okay. And it's still evolving. I mean, I came on to this. When I read your book and I saw your story of Lai Changxin, I said, holy shit, I have to get into this. You see the level of danger that it brings to a country like Canada and North America. But I think that Ye Xuen Ning created the mechanism for the CCP to use and leverage organized crime to, 00:05:51    SAM COOPER mechanism for the CCP to use and leverage organized crime to, number one, fund military operations. and other things, and to extend influence operations. Like the United Front is all about influence operations. But if you introduce organized crime elements into parts of the United Front, you can weaponize it and you can get a lot more bang for your buck using these nefarious creatures that you're managing, you're controlling them. And I want to mention something. How does the CCP have control over organized crimes? So I want to say, In the late 90s, Macau No. 1 was about to be returned from Portuguese administration to Chinese. And 2, the kind of monopoly of the casinos license was coming up in 2002. And what happened was these triad operators were starting to push back against Stanley Ho. Stanley Ho's right -hand man was shot in the face in Victoria Park during this period. And the Portuguese sent an official to try to calm down the situation. And that individual was shot when he arrived. And the Communist Party kind of went in and took control. When the monopoly came up, Stanley Ho and his family, they got the coverage. But that's because he's completely loyal to the CCP. And so the CCP has so much leverage over these entities. Completely, he devised the strategy to integrate organized crime. And then he passed away in 2016. And then the institutional steps took place after that. They had to transfer from sort of a control of one man to the government running it. And you can see examples around 2016 of a lot of large -scale Chinese operations having disruption during this period. One of the reasons they were able to do this for so long was that Ye Xuanning was completely secretive. I mean, he managed these operations in a very keen and brilliant way, and he was never identified. Xi Jinping's role is interesting. Ye Xuanning told his brothers to help Xi Jinping. And you can kind of see like an increase in their efforts when Xi's father... He was in Beijing, and he had a very high role. He pulled a bureau standing committee, and he was sent down because of Tiananmen. He was on the reformer side, and he publicly admitted it. He was a very admirable individual, and he said he was supporting Hua Guofeng. So he faced early retirement in 1993, and the Ye brothers were so upset about this, and probably Xi too. They sort of doubled down on their efforts on behalf of this political warfare. It's almost as if they were pissed off at the Communist Party, but they took it out on North America. It's like they had to become more radical in what they were doing because in order to get power in China, you had to outflank Li Peng and the hardliners. So there's an interesting element there. 00:09:13    CHRISTOPHER MEYER You talk about this combination of military intelligence and organized crime. and political warfare and global influence operations. Trade is obviously involved. Explain what you mean by radicalization of that tool in operations. 00:09:31    SAM COOPER So there were about 10 operations in the 1990s that I believe were masterminded by the Yeshi Clay and primarily Yeshi Ning. The most outrageous, there was one and probably several. smuggling of military -grade machine guns into the U .S. from China. And one of the groups that was set up, helped finance the military, was the Poly Group. And the Poly Group, they were on the bill of lading for these. They were labeled as something else, but they came into the port of Oakland. And the interesting thing was the CEO of Poly Group, who was a princeling himself, was meeting in the White House and had his photo taken with President Clinton. At the time, these machine guns were on the water. That's bold. Yes. And when I ponder this, it's like I know how much the Chinese love photographs. That photo shown by Xi Jinping to all the cronies in Beijing would get him a lot of brownie points. And these machine guns were being distributed to gangs in the area. Street gangs in California. So this kind of thing, right? Right. And so that one was uncovered. But how many others slipped by? And there have been cases similar magnitude in Tennessee and Florida. 00:10:57    CHRISTOPHER MEYER Yeah, and this is where it gets into the leaked Sidewinder report that I touched on in the book. But yeah, that report refers to Pauley Group laundering 2 ,000 AK -47s into California. You're saying you believe that not only is Xi Jinping supported by this Ye family intelligence, who I have no problem believing are behind the United Front organized crime nexus. You're saying you think Xi Jinping is a mind involved in this kind of thing as well. 00:11:30    SAM COOPER Originally, as I was doing my research, I thought Xi was the mastermind. But as I did a deep dive to what his contemporaries said of him, The big knock on Xi was that he wasn't educated. Like age nine to age 25, his dad has been persecuted and locked up without trial. And he's forced to work in the countryside and he's not happy about it. I mean, he wasn't educated. And that's the biggest knock on Xi Jinping. And when you look at the history of Xi in Fujian, first of all, he goes to the Ministry of Defense and then doesn't do... anything of note there as a young man. But then he goes into Hebei province and he's working in Hebei province as a middle level provincial official. And he's not doing much. I mean, his big contribution was suggesting that they film a TV show in that province and kind of burned out. He wasn't favored by the Communist Party officials there. You know, he's brought to Fujian. Communist Party officials bounce around provinces and each time they have an increasing role. Well, he stays in Fujian for 17 years. And it's almost like he's being babysat by the Yehs. And I mean, the Yeh family compound was a two and a half hour drive from where she was in Fujian. And so I don't think he was the mastermind, but he was definitely the beneficiary. And I think that it was a long term project. And the Yeh brothers. put the pieces on the table to help promote Xi Jinping. And here's an interesting thing. In 1997, there was a big Central Party conclave, the 15th Central Party plenary meeting. And Ye wasn't even named as an alternate delegate. So you've got hundreds of delegates coming from all over the country. And he's a princeling. And he's been in provincial government for 12 years. And he's not even named. Somebody forced him onto the list of alternate delegates. There were 150. He was the 151st alternate delegate. He didn't receive one vote. He was pushed on. And I think somebody in the realm said, you know what? We're running all these operations and we're doing it so secretively. Nobody knows that this is for Xi Jinping. So they started gradually to kind of promote Xi as. the mastermind of this. And the years were okay with that. But Xi Jinping was on his way to becoming the leader of China by 2002. 00:14:08    CHRISTOPHER MEYER And I was over in Taiwan, invited by the Ministry of Foreign Affairs over a year ago with international journalists. And we had kind of a dinner talk where their political intelligence expert was going to talk about some of this Klan details and things like that. And they said, yeah, within the princelings, Xi Jinping was the least likely, the least talented to reach chairman. 00:14:37    CHRISTOPHER MEYER And so, OK, you know, I'm not the expert. If someone from Taiwan is telling me that, you're saying that. So if true, and you're saying the power behind the throne is this Ye family that boosts him. And they're the ones you're saying that are the masterminds of what I'm going to call modern political Chinese communist warfare using proxies, organized crime, dirty tycoons. So this is where we're going. 00:15:06    SAM COOPER Yep, this is where we're going. And let me just touch on a few of the operations in the 1990s, just to give you a sense for what was going on and the fact that the Chinese were never completely called out on the carpet for it. Just let them continue doing it. And one of the themes of my research is it's time to call the Chinese out. And to do that, you have to be very specific. I think there needs to be a large group of countries that has their research done and they call out Xi Jinping for this political warfare that absolutely is hyper -destructive. 00:15:41    CHRISTOPHER MEYER So you're saying this is an intelligence operation? Yeah. For the last 10 minutes or so, In direct relationship to this network you're talking about, the 90s, 2000, aggressive combination of international organized crime, Hong Kong tycoons, Macau tycoons, in Chinese military influence operations, also people smuggling, also drug smuggling, illegal migration and, you know, fentanyl. There is a basis that Chinese triads and Mexican cartels are working together on those things and that Canada is a, you could call it, if this is a company, the controlling minds of a lot of this are in Vancouver and Toronto. Canadian ports are very deeply infiltrated by China, along with some Iranian mafia and intelligence. It's a fact. So where do we go from there? I myself, as a Canadian, the good countries of the world need to get together to combat this approaching, if not already into early stages of the access of China, Iran, Russia, North Korea. We're at loggerheads and they're using Canada, I believe, unfortunately. 00:17:01    SAM COOPER Right. And I do believe that Yeshua Ning is a genius and he looked at North America and he wants to inflict pain on the U .S. When he set up these plans in the early 90s, the Chinese GDP was a fraction of the U .S. So he had a lot of ground to make up. And he chose Vancouver because the resources to combat his efforts were probably deemed to be significantly less than the resources in the U .S. So I feel that the attack on Canada, the Vancouver model. if you will, which spread right across to Toronto and then down into Queens and across to LA and permeates everything. I believe that the US and Canada should try to get on the same page about this and to the extent possible, Mexico as well. And then the UK and Australia haven't been unaffected by this. There should be a big effort to get on the same page with the West because this is a totalitarian regime doing its level best to take us out. 00:18:07    CHRISTOPHER MEYER The controlling mind, I'm saying, of the Mexican cartels, I think it's Chinese triads. That's the real power there. 00:18:15    SAM COOPER I think we're both in agreement. If you want to draw a word picture that says what this is, picture that there's a really bad actor and he's throwing a really illegal party and selling drugs and he's bringing it all in. And the U .S. is going after the people who own the land where all of this took place. You have to go after China. And I believe that China is making 98 % of the precursors for fentanyl, and then they're laundering the money. That's the other piece. They're laundering it. They're operating this massive money laundering operation for the cartels. So I say the gloves do come off, but I would love to see them come off in unison. And all of these, at least in North America, Mexico, Canada, and the U .S., we're all on the same page. And we speak with one voice. And I'll add to this. Xi Jinping has been as painful towards his own population as he has been externally and internationally. So he's inflicted pain on the Chinese and he's about to go down. I mean, he's got his wings clipped in the last few months and he may not be in power very long. There's some serious movement in China. 00:19:30    CHRISTOPHER MEYER You sound like my friend Harry Tsang, the ambassador for Taiwan and Ottawa. He's bearish on Xi Jinping in a big way. 00:19:38    SAM COOPER Yeah. Well, I think it's a good time for the West to approach China and say, look, we got off on the wrong foot. Let's reboot. And by the way, there's some reparations needed here. 70 ,000 people have been dying a year from this, and it's a Chinese operation. You know, the cartels are definitely part of it, but... I think there's good reason for the West to get on the same page. 00:20:02    CHRISTOPHER MEYER Absolutely. So we will end it there for a first great chat. And I think next time we'll get into the juicy story of Lai Cheng Zing, the bigot China's supposed most wanted. Or what was he? So I'll leave it at that and we'll pick it up next time. You have to say, 00:20:21    SAM COOPER have to say, I'm sitting there doing my research. I get your book. And all of a sudden, within 50 pages, the lights are going off because you wrote about Lai Changxin and it just completed some thoughts that I was mulling over. And yeah, we're going to have an interesting conversation about Lai Changxin. 00:20:40    CHRISTOPHER MEYER That touches my heart because I've always been a brother of the United States and I've felt so disheartened that bad people have gotten in between us and we have to stop that. And as you say, we need to get together on this. I've reached some good thinkers in the US and there's now things brewing. So let's keep it going. You got it. 00:21:01    Close Thanks for listening. If you get a chance, please like and subscribe and rate the show on your favorite podcast platform. Also, if you're interested in coming on the show or hosting an episode, email us at capodcasting@gmail.com. I'll have the email and CA Association website in the show notes. And now, most importantly, to those currently out in the field, working with a partner nation's people or leadership to forward U .S. relations. Thank you all for what you're doing. This is Jack, your host. Stay tuned for more great episodes, One CA Podcast.

Today, Sam Cooper, founder of the news outlet The Bureau, guest hosts Christopher Meyer, a former U.S. official and China expert during the Bush One and Two Administrations. Meyer currently serves as the head of the U.S. Micronesia Council and founded Wide Fountain, a platform for in-depth geopolitical analysis.  In this the first of a two-part episode, Sam and Christopher discuss PRC strategic corruption and political warfare. So, let's get started.  Sam Cooper's The Bureau: https://www.thebureau.news/ Christopher Meyer's Wide Fountain platform: https://widefountain.substack.com/ --- One CA is a product of the civil affairs association a and brings in people who are current or former military, diplomats, development officers, and field agents to discuss their experiences on the ground with a partner nation's people and leadership. We aim to inspire anyone interested in working in the "last three feet" of U.S. foreign relations.  To contact the show, email us at CApodcasting@gmail.com  or look us up on the Civil Affairs Association website at www civilaffairsassoc.org --- Special thanks to Cozy Ambience for a sample of "February Cafe Jazz - Instrumental Bossa Nova Music for Work, Study and Relax - Background Music" retrieved from https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hmq8Ht-sNwQ --- Transcript 00:00:01    Introduction Welcome to the One CA Podcast. This is your host, Jack Gaines. One CA is a product of the Civil Affairs Association and brings in people who are current or former military, diplomats, development officers, and field agents to discuss their experiences on ground with the partner nation's people and leadership. Our goal is to inspire anyone interested in working the last three feet of foreign relations. To contact the show, email us at capodcasting@gmail.com. or look us up on the Civil Affairs Association website at www.civilaffairsassoc.org. I'll have those in the show notes. Today we welcome Sam Cooper, founder of the news outlet The Bureau, as he interviews Christopher Meyer, a former U.S. 00:00:44    SAM COOPER official and China expert during the Bush I and II administrations. Meyer currently serves as the head of the U.S. Micronesia Council and is the founder of Wide Fountain. a platform for in -depth geopolitical analysis. This is the first of a two -part episode. Sam and Christopher discuss PRC strategic corruption and political warfare. So let's get started. 00:01:07    SAM COOPER Today I'm excited to introduce Chris Myers. Chris is a longtime China expert and former U .S. government diplomatic and economic issues officer, and he explains how military intelligence and influence networks embedded deeply with organized crime are a central feature of the global strategy employed by the families that really are running communist China. And when I say that, we're going to discuss your research on the family of Xi Jinping, the Xi family, and you call it the Yezi clique. But first, tell our viewers your background in getting into China and your career. 00:01:46    CHRISTOPHER MEYER Thank you very much, Sam. I started a keen interest in China when I was 16. And I read the history of the opium wars and I was outraged. And I decided I wanted a career to be involved in business and diplomacy between the U .S. and China. And then as an undergrad student, I did research on the special economic zones. This was in the early 80s and the special economic zones were just announced. And my research led me to see the geopolitical aspects. There were some. across from Macau, across from Hong Kong, and across from Taiwan. So I sort of had an eye to that. And then I did business. I was, for five years, I was with a Fortune 500 company. And I had the opportunity to do some business in Xiaomon. And I saw some things that set off alarm bells in my mind. And I kind of filed that. And I had some experiences that informed my research later. I worked in the government in Bush 1 and Bush 2. I was involved in Indo -Pacific affairs. really helping American companies do business in the region, and then became a consultant to part of the government that administered our territories in the Pacific. So I saw some things there that, again, set off alarm bells in my mind. And in 2016, I happened to cross an old colleague who kind of gave me some more information. And basically from 2016 until 2022, I conducted a lot of independent research. I decided I wanted to know exactly what was going on because proxies in the region seemed emboldened to take on the U .S. And they didn't have a government portfolio, but they acted like they did. And so my research sort of started in Micronesia. I had the great opportunity to come across your book. You totally informed. parts of what I was looking at and kind of put the spotlight on what happened in Canada. And I kind of worked the two sides to the middle and conducted most recently research that kind of takes us from Mao Zedong's death until the 90s. And I believe that there was a click. I call it the yes, she click. There were scores to settle. There were powerful families that were on the cusp of greatness or recognition for all their good work, and they were purged. And it led some individuals to become extremely militant in their conduct of political warfare against the U .S. So that sort of sets the table for what we might be talking about. 00:04:28    SAM COOPER Yeah. So to get into this, let's start with the Ye family. They're mysterious, but for experts, they're very clearly a clan that has tremendous kingmaking power in China. So maybe let's start with who they are and then bridge into how they connect with Xi's father. 00:04:46    CHRISTOPHER MEYER So the patriarch, Lie Jianying, was literally the kingmaker of Mao Zedong. He came from Guangdong province, and he was involved in the very earliest movements of the Communist Party in China. And he fled one of those, I think it was the Guangzhou uprising, with Zhou Enlai, and they escaped to Hong Kong. So Ye Jianying is one of the original revolutionaries in China, and he had the title of Marshal Ye. And when he crossed paths with Mao Zedong, he was actually the aide -de -camp to a very powerful Communist Party operator out of Beijing who had an army of tens of thousands. And he rolled up to Mao and his very small group of long marchers and said, follow us, we're going to Sichuan province. And Mao was like, no, I don't think that's a safe bet. The locals are going to tear you up. And Ye Jianying kind of heard a truth in Mao and he deserted this powerful general and with him brought the code books. So Mao gets Ye Jianying and the code books and he's able to communicate with the Comintern. And lo and behold, that general did get wiped out in Sichuan. He returned to Mao's base. With a few thousand troops from then, Mao became the most powerful leader in the communist ecosystem. So Ye Jianying had a very high regard for Mao. Mao called him the savior of the Communist Party and the Communist Revolution. And so fast forward it right through the revolution. Ye gets a very top position as the party secretary for Guangdong province, the largest and economically most powerful province in the country. And Mao wants to conduct his land reform in Guangdong, just as he does everywhere. And it's a violent thing where landowners are hunted down and put to death. Yeah, because he was a native Cantonese, understood that the landowners in Guangdong were not of the same ilk as those throughout China. They actually worked the lands. They had a very cooperative relationship with labor. And he tried to resist. But Mao forced Lin Biao into Guangdong. And Ye lost his government role. And if he hadn't been in the military, he would have been completely out of power. But because he had a military portfolio, he was able to stay on the peripheries. And he was actually part of the small group that brought down the Gang of Four and ended the Cultural Revolution. So Ye Jianying went through the Mao Zedong grinder, but he did it so early in the 50s that he was able to... maintain power and have it going forward. Another Long March hero was Xi Jinping's father, Xi Zhong Chun. And his claim to fame in the Communist Party was he maintained security over the area where Mao was camped in Yan 'an. And he was able to provide Mao and his group with enough security that they could camp there through a winter and survive. Not only that, but he negotiated and he conducted diplomacy with the tribesmen in the Northwest, in Qinghai, in Xinjiang, and in Tibet. And he was loved. And he got a lot of rebels and insurgents among these minority populations to join the Communist Party. And Mao gave him great profs for that and referred to him as one of the heroes of the Three Kingdoms period. brilliant statesman who was able to ingratiate with the minorities and make them part of the Chinese nation. Unfortunately, though, Xi Jinping's father, Xi Zhongchun, he was purged, but he was purged later. He was purged in 1962. And from Xi Jinping's age nine until he was 25, Xi Jinping's father was under arrest. Without trial, it was just the culture revolution. He was under arrest because his office published a book that was deemed not flattering to Mao Zedong. Basically, he was promoting some thought within the Communist Party that Mao didn't like. So Xi's father is in jail from 62 to 78. And because Ye Senior and Xi Zhongchun had a relationship, Ye Jianying kind of became a godfather of sorts for Xi Jinping. Xi was sent to work in the countryside and he escaped and he tried to get back to Beijing and it wasn't safe for him to be reunited with his family. And Ye intervened. And Ye made sure that Xi joined the Communist Party, even though these tragedies were all around him, and made sure that he got the semblance of an education, although he really never did. He was a guide for Xi Jinping throughout his younger years. in place of his father. 00:10:02    Sam Cooper Before we continue how those families dovetail together, can you describe in China's political economy, what is the power of Marshal Ye? 00:10:13    CHRISTOPHER MEYER So in the 50s, he was jettisoned out of the political arena. His main work was in the PLA. He was a marshal and he became minister of defense in China. And he was responsible for procurement. And to sort of give you a sense, when the Korean War started, the United Nations put a blockade on trade with China because they were arming the North Korean army. Marshal Yeh was responsible for making sure that supplies got to North Korea. And that was a big role that he fulfilled. And his sons kind of brought that along. So it's curious because Marshal Yeh was one of the most powerful stars in the communist lineup, but he was also a minority. He was from Guangdong and he was a Haka Chinese. So some people would say that Haka Chinese within China, there's a lid sometimes on their ability to move up. And so perhaps he was never considered for the echelon, but he did arise very high. But in some ways, and his sons adopted this even more so, they had to become very combative. in their political dealings. But no doubt about it, Marshal Yeh had a chance to handle huge volumes of military supplies, and there was an opportunity to skim and generate great wealth, which probably was the case. The way that Marshal Yeh fulfilled the supply chains for the North Korean army was through organized crime. And it just happened that two of The individuals, Henry Falk and Stanley Ho, were also Hakka Chinese. And they became the kingpins of organized crime in Hong Kong and Macau. Both of them are on record as saying they made their fortunes supplying the Korean War. 00:12:15    SAM COOPER Right. So people that read my book are very familiar with Stanley Ho, according to U .S. government intelligence. the absolute king of Chinese international mafia with connectivity to casinos, banking, political influence operations in Canada, triad leadership in Canada. So I think we've set the table for the 90s in Guangdong, Fujian. Xi Jinping is now starting to come on the scene politically there. The Ye family, who were partners essentially of Xi's father. had a little bit of a godfather eye on Xi's movements within the party. We can say that they're the power behind a throne that they want to see continue to rise. So can you take us into the 90s, the sort of Stanley Ho connectivity to Chinese People's Political Consultative Conference and how that combines the Hong Kong tycoons slash triad leaders with the communist powers in Fujian? 00:13:21    CHRISTOPHER MEYER Yes. Mao passed away in 78. Deng Xiaoping came to power. And Deng was all about economic reform and catching up to the West. So in southern China, Fujian and Guangdong province, Deng looked to Ye Jenying and his sons. His sons were in their 30s now. And he also looked to Xi Zhongshan. Xi Zhongshan became party secretary for Guangdong province. in the early 80s. And Deng kind of put together this group. The Ye's and the Xi's were family friends. They celebrated Chinese holidays together. The Xi's were northern Chinese, but they kind of encamped in Guangdong province after a certain amount of time. And that's where Xi's father retired. But in Guangdong, the son of Ye, his name was Ye Xuanping. Basically, he was mayor of Guangzhou and the governor of Guangdong. And very quickly, he was referred to as the emperor of the south. So in the 80s, he was running Guangdong province. And he became so powerful that the CCP sought to have him step down. And he actually threatened to withhold tax to Beijing from the province of Guangdong unless they negotiated with him. He wanted a vice chair of the CPPCC, the Chinese People's Political Consultative Committee. And he wants to be a vice governor of the CPPCC. And he wanted to be allowed to maintain his power base in Guangdong. And this is a rare case where the CCP actually deferred to these wishes. Just to get him out of running the most powerful province in China, they said okay. So he goes over the CPPCC. And he takes with him the kingpins of organized crime in Hong Kong and Macau. Stanley Ho never had a position, but Henry Falk and the other top lieutenants in these organized crime entities all wound up on the CPPCC. And to give you a sense of like, what was some of the magic Stanley Ho had when he won the monopoly on gaming in Macau? He devised this VIP room concept where... He owned the casino, but the VIP rooms were run by basically triads and junkets, powerful friends from mainland China and triads. And the triads conducted all kinds of crime that the Vancouver model got in a very big dose. So it was racketeering and prostitution and all kinds of things, but also collections. So Stanley Ho didn't have to work on collections because his muscle did it for him. But the strongest of these triad operators wound up in the CPPCC, as long as they were effective in what they were doing for the government. And 14K is dominated by Hakka Chinese. Most of the most powerful triads have a very strong Hakka element to it. And I don't mean to suggest that this wonderful race of Chinese called Hakkas is all bad. Lee Kuan Yew, the premier of Singapore, was Hakka Chinese. phenomenal Chinese, but there were also some very nefarious and very effective in their criminal activities that were Haka Chinese. So the Ye's were in the middle of this. And Chinese language social media accounts in Hong Kong will talk about the Ye's dominance over these gaming operators in Macau. 00:17:07    SAM COOPER Let's get into that and explore that more. I just want to ask a side question. As I'm aware of a very important figure, in what we call the Hoag Commission in Canada. I'm just going to leave it at that. This is our inquiry into foreign interference that stemmed from my investigative reporting. And there is a politician at the center of that that my sources close to them said went off to a haka conference in China for weeks or something like that, you know, while being an elected politician in Canada. Knowing what you know, and I'm just coming out of the blue with this question, is there anything good for Canada that they could be doing on that trip? 00:17:45    CHRISTOPHER MEYER There could be a lot of normal cultural activity, but I'll say one thing, that the powers that are doing the kinds of things that I'm concerned with are definitely represented in those groups. There might be a wink and a nod and things look very normal on the surface, but there's no free lunch in China. Everybody has to pay the piper, and the piper is the communist party of China. 00:18:11    SAM COOPER So let me ask you this. Viewers of the Bureau know that I've pressed away in journalism in explaining that the United Front Work Department and international money laundering and organized crime are synonymous. They're one and the same. The CIA says the Chinese People's Political Consultative Conference is really the core unit of the United Front. So what you're getting at... I think the Ye family, these power brokers that are behind Xi and his power in southern China, you're saying they essentially formed this United Front and organized crime compact as sort of a political tool, a smuggling tool, a military tool? 00:18:55    CHRISTOPHER MEYER Yes. And I want to say that the United Front was an early Communist Party creation. And the thing about the Communist Party... They infiltrated the Kuomintang. When the Kuomintang had more power and they were the power base in China, the communists used political warfare to infiltrate them and really become their undoing. And the United Front is basically one way to get all parts of society under the control of the CCP. So within the United Front, the CPPCC is sort of the big leagues. And all the other organizations are the feeder groups. So if you get in a small united front group and you deliver in a big way, you can get promoted all the way to this PCC. And Ong Lapsung is an example of that. So the whole idea of the united front is to harness and control all the resources from academia, the private sector. from all aspects of society and to make them work for the Communist Party. And I feel that any united front operation, and there's so many in Canada and the U .S., they should just be called assets of the Chinese government. That's one way for the Chinese to increase their headcount of diplomatic officers within any given country. 00:20:26    Close Thanks for listening. If you get a chance, please like and subscribe and rate the show on your favorite podcast platform. Also, if you're interested in coming on the show or hosting an episode, email us at capodcasting@gmail.com. I'll have the email and CA Association website in the show notes. And now, most importantly, to those currently out in the field working with a partner nation's people or leadership to forward U.S. relations, thank you all for what you're doing. your host. Stay tuned for more great episodes of One CA Podcast.   Episode 2 00:00:01    Introduction Welcome to the 1CA Podcast. This is your host, Jack Gaines. 1CA is a product of the Civil Affairs Association and brings in people who are current or former military, diplomats, development officers, and field agents to discuss their experiences on ground with the partner nation's people and leadership. Our goal is to inspire anyone interested in working the last three feet of foreign relations. To contact the show, email us at capodcasting@gmail.com. or look us up on the Civil Affairs Association website at www.civilaffairsassoc.org. I'll have those in the show notes. Today we welcome Sam Cooper, founder of the news outlet The Bureau, as he interviews Christopher Meyer, a former U .S. 00:00:44    Introduction official and China expert during the Bush 1 and 2 administrations. Meyer currently serves as the head of the U .S. Micronesia Council and is the founder of Wide Fountain. a platform for in -depth geopolitical analysis. This is the second of a two -part episode. Sam and Christopher discuss PRC strategic corruption and political warfare. So let's get started. 00:01:08    SAM COOPER I feel that any United Front operation, and there's so many in Canada and the U .S., they should just be called assets of the Chinese government. That's one way for the Chinese to increase their headcount of diplomatic officers within any given country. And they should be labeled that way and they should be treated that way. And they're conducting operations for China. So to get back to the Ye family, I just want to say very briefly, so Deng Xiaoping taps the older brother, Ye, and he's in the government and he has a nine, 10 -year run in Guangdong. The younger brother, his name is Ye Xuanning. He's the dangerous one. He's a real interesting cat. So, yeah. was in college during the Cultural Revolution. And just to give you an idea of the thin ice that you could be skating on in China, he graduated from college and he was thrown in jail. And he was thrown in jail because, you know, Mao wanted to send a signal to the Ye family, I'm in control here. You're not in control. He got out of jail and he had a job in a radio factory or something like that. And he must have been so distraught, he lost his arm in an accident. throwing boxes into a crusher and he lost his arm. So he became a calligrapher with his left hand. And if you know Chinese, like every time you write calligraphy, your hand is going across what you're writing. If you're left -handed, I don't know how he did it. I'm left -handed. And he became an accomplished calligrapher with his left hand. So it just gives you a sense of the spirit of this guy. He's not your normal. person. I think he was a genius. I think he was extremely hardworking. And one of his first positions, he was involved in a small United Front operation in Beijing. Then he became secretary for Kang Xian, who was sort of the head of the oil faction in China. And he was a very powerful individual. And then he found himself in Guangdong. And when his brother was appointed head of the province and the city of Guangzhou, He got into Espionade, and he became the spymaster for the PLA, working in the GDP. And he really had it. He sort of hit his stride there, and that's how he ended his career. The spymaster for the PLA. I think any other rival couldn't even hold a candle to him. He was totally gifted. And his brother and he were able to leverage all of their... contacts with organized crime because he used them in operations around the world. And I think he's the one who weaponized it to the point where, number one, organized crime figures were making money for the military, a lot of it. And number two, they were almost pre -trained in operations. They were bold. They would go anywhere and do anything. And Aung La Pseung is a good example of that. 00:04:11    CHRISTOPHER MEYER I was going to say, because not everyone knows these names like you and I do, but Enlap Sang, nominally a real estate developer from Macau. My Files, he's a huge international organized crime figure known for the so -called Clinton Gate or White House visits. He's the guy that got next to the Clinton White House or got inside, you know, maybe five to ten times. He ends up getting done, as they say, in a United Nations corruption case, which of course connects to a very important guy in Australia that successfully sued my colleague, John Garneau, and yet is at the top of Chinese organized crime funding Australian politics. He was involved in that FBI case. So to bring it back, what I've picked up in my book and in my repeated reporting efforts at the Bureau is these international Chinese businessmen in real estate and casinos, tech these days, they go around the world, they get next to our politicians, and that's their job. They're being tasked by whoever the Ye family spymaster of today is, is sending them abroad to do that. At some point, Xi Jinping comes into this and says it's okay. 00:05:30    SAM COOPER okay. And it's still evolving. I mean, I came on to this. When I read your book and I saw your story of Lai Changxin, I said, holy shit, I have to get into this. You see the level of danger that it brings to a country like Canada and North America. But I think that Ye Xuen Ning created the mechanism for the CCP to use and leverage organized crime to, 00:05:51    SAM COOPER mechanism for the CCP to use and leverage organized crime to, number one, fund military operations. and other things, and to extend influence operations. Like the United Front is all about influence operations. But if you introduce organized crime elements into parts of the United Front, you can weaponize it and you can get a lot more bang for your buck using these nefarious creatures that you're managing, you're controlling them. And I want to mention something. How does the CCP have control over organized crimes? So I want to say, In the late 90s, Macau No. 1 was about to be returned from Portuguese administration to Chinese. And 2, the kind of monopoly of the casinos license was coming up in 2002. And what happened was these triad operators were starting to push back against Stanley Ho. Stanley Ho's right -hand man was shot in the face in Victoria Park during this period. And the Portuguese sent an official to try to calm down the situation. And that individual was shot when he arrived. And the Communist Party kind of went in and took control. When the monopoly came up, Stanley Ho and his family, they got the coverage. But that's because he's completely loyal to the CCP. And so the CCP has so much leverage over these entities. Completely, he devised the strategy to integrate organized crime. And then he passed away in 2016. And then the institutional steps took place after that. They had to transfer from sort of a control of one man to the government running it. And you can see examples around 2016 of a lot of large -scale Chinese operations having disruption during this period. One of the reasons they were able to do this for so long was that Ye Xuanning was completely secretive. I mean, he managed these operations in a very keen and brilliant way, and he was never identified. Xi Jinping's role is interesting. Ye Xuanning told his brothers to help Xi Jinping. And you can kind of see like an increase in their efforts when Xi's father... He was in Beijing, and he had a very high role. He pulled a bureau standing committee, and he was sent down because of Tiananmen. He was on the reformer side, and he publicly admitted it. He was a very admirable individual, and he said he was supporting Hua Guofeng. So he faced early retirement in 1993, and the Ye brothers were so upset about this, and probably Xi too. They sort of doubled down on their efforts on behalf of this political warfare. It's almost as if they were pissed off at the Communist Party, but they took it out on North America. It's like they had to become more radical in what they were doing because in order to get power in China, you had to outflank Li Peng and the hardliners. So there's an interesting element there. 00:09:13    CHRISTOPHER MEYER You talk about this combination of military intelligence and organized crime. and political warfare and global influence operations. Trade is obviously involved. Explain what you mean by radicalization of that tool in operations. 00:09:31    SAM COOPER So there were about 10 operations in the 1990s that I believe were masterminded by the Yeshi Clay and primarily Yeshi Ning. The most outrageous, there was one and probably several. smuggling of military -grade machine guns into the U .S. from China. And one of the groups that was set up, helped finance the military, was the Poly Group. And the Poly Group, they were on the bill of lading for these. They were labeled as something else, but they came into the port of Oakland. And the interesting thing was the CEO of Poly Group, who was a princeling himself, was meeting in the White House and had his photo taken with President Clinton. At the time, these machine guns were on the water. That's bold. Yes. And when I ponder this, it's like I know how much the Chinese love photographs. That photo shown by Xi Jinping to all the cronies in Beijing would get him a lot of brownie points. And these machine guns were being distributed to gangs in the area. Street gangs in California. So this kind of thing, right? Right. And so that one was uncovered. But how many others slipped by? And there have been cases similar magnitude in Tennessee and Florida. 00:10:57    CHRISTOPHER MEYER Yeah, and this is where it gets into the leaked Sidewinder report that I touched on in the book. But yeah, that report refers to Pauley Group laundering 2 ,000 AK -47s into California. You're saying you believe that not only is Xi Jinping supported by this Ye family intelligence, who I have no problem believing are behind the United Front organized crime nexus. You're saying you think Xi Jinping is a mind involved in this kind of thing as well. 00:11:30    SAM COOPER Originally, as I was doing my research, I thought Xi was the mastermind. But as I did a deep dive to what his contemporaries said of him, The big knock on Xi was that he wasn't educated. Like age nine to age 25, his dad has been persecuted and locked up without trial. And he's forced to work in the countryside and he's not happy about it. I mean, he wasn't educated. And that's the biggest knock on Xi Jinping. And when you look at the history of Xi in Fujian, first of all, he goes to the Ministry of Defense and then doesn't do... anything of note there as a young man. But then he goes into Hebei province and he's working in Hebei province as a middle level provincial official. And he's not doing much. I mean, his big contribution was suggesting that they film a TV show in that province and kind of burned out. He wasn't favored by the Communist Party officials there. You know, he's brought to Fujian. Communist Party officials bounce around provinces and each time they have an increasing role. Well, he stays in Fujian for 17 years. And it's almost like he's being babysat by the Yehs. And I mean, the Yeh family compound was a two and a half hour drive from where she was in Fujian. And so I don't think he was the mastermind, but he was definitely the beneficiary. And I think that it was a long term project. And the Yeh brothers. put the pieces on the table to help promote Xi Jinping. And here's an interesting thing. In 1997, there was a big Central Party conclave, the 15th Central Party plenary meeting. And Ye wasn't even named as an alternate delegate. So you've got hundreds of delegates coming from all over the country. And he's a princeling. And he's been in provincial government for 12 years. And he's not even named. Somebody forced him onto the list of alternate delegates. There were 150. He was the 151st alternate delegate. He didn't receive one vote. He was pushed on. And I think somebody in the realm said, you know what? We're running all these operations and we're doing it so secretively. Nobody knows that this is for Xi Jinping. So they started gradually to kind of promote Xi as. the mastermind of this. And the years were okay with that. But Xi Jinping was on his way to becoming the leader of China by 2002. 00:14:08    CHRISTOPHER MEYER And I was over in Taiwan, invited by the Ministry of Foreign Affairs over a year ago with international journalists. And we had kind of a dinner talk where their political intelligence expert was going to talk about some of this Klan details and things like that. And they said, yeah, within the princelings, Xi Jinping was the least likely, the least talented to reach chairman. 00:14:37    CHRISTOPHER MEYER And so, OK, you know, I'm not the expert. If someone from Taiwan is telling me that, you're saying that. So if true, and you're saying the power behind the throne is this Ye family that boosts him. And they're the ones you're saying that are the masterminds of what I'm going to call modern political Chinese communist warfare using proxies, organized crime, dirty tycoons. So this is where we're going. 00:15:06    SAM COOPER Yep, this is where we're going. And let me just touch on a few of the operations in the 1990s, just to give you a sense for what was going on and the fact that the Chinese were never completely called out on the carpet for it. Just let them continue doing it. And one of the themes of my research is it's time to call the Chinese out. And to do that, you have to be very specific. I think there needs to be a large group of countries that has their research done and they call out Xi Jinping for this political warfare that absolutely is hyper -destructive. 00:15:41    CHRISTOPHER MEYER So you're saying this is an intelligence operation? Yeah. For the last 10 minutes or so, In direct relationship to this network you're talking about, the 90s, 2000, aggressive combination of international organized crime, Hong Kong tycoons, Macau tycoons, in Chinese military influence operations, also people smuggling, also drug smuggling, illegal migration and, you know, fentanyl. There is a basis that Chinese triads and Mexican cartels are working together on those things and that Canada is a, you could call it, if this is a company, the controlling minds of a lot of this are in Vancouver and Toronto. Canadian ports are very deeply infiltrated by China, along with some Iranian mafia and intelligence. It's a fact. So where do we go from there? I myself, as a Canadian, the good countries of the world need to get together to combat this approaching, if not already into early stages of the access of China, Iran, Russia, North Korea. We're at loggerheads and they're using Canada, I believe, unfortunately. 00:17:01    SAM COOPER Right. And I do believe that Yeshua Ning is a genius and he looked at North America and he wants to inflict pain on the U .S. When he set up these plans in the early 90s, the Chinese GDP was a fraction of the U .S. So he had a lot of ground to make up. And he chose Vancouver because the resources to combat his efforts were probably deemed to be significantly less than the resources in the U .S. So I feel that the attack on Canada, the Vancouver model. if you will, which spread right across to Toronto and then down into Queens and across to LA and permeates everything. I believe that the US and Canada should try to get on the same page about this and to the extent possible, Mexico as well. And then the UK and Australia haven't been unaffected by this. There should be a big effort to get on the same page with the West because this is a totalitarian regime doing its level best to take us out. 00:18:07    CHRISTOPHER MEYER The controlling mind, I'm saying, of the Mexican cartels, I think it's Chinese triads. That's the real power there. 00:18:15    SAM COOPER I think we're both in agreement. If you want to draw a word picture that says what this is, picture that there's a really bad actor and he's throwing a really illegal party and selling drugs and he's bringing it all in. And the U .S. is going after the people who own the land where all of this took place. You have to go after China. And I believe that China is making 98 % of the precursors for fentanyl, and then they're laundering the money. That's the other piece. They're laundering it. They're operating this massive money laundering operation for the cartels. So I say the gloves do come off, but I would love to see them come off in unison. And all of these, at least in North America, Mexico, Canada, and the U .S., we're all on the same page. And we speak with one voice. And I'll add to this. Xi Jinping has been as painful towards his own population as he has been externally and internationally. So he's inflicted pain on the Chinese and he's about to go down. I mean, he's got his wings clipped in the last few months and he may not be in power very long. There's some serious movement in China. 00:19:30    CHRISTOPHER MEYER You sound like my friend Harry Tsang, the ambassador for Taiwan and Ottawa. He's bearish on Xi Jinping in a big way. 00:19:38    SAM COOPER Yeah. Well, I think it's a good time for the West to approach China and say, look, we got off on the wrong foot. Let's reboot. And by the way, there's some reparations needed here. 70 ,000 people have been dying a year from this, and it's a Chinese operation. You know, the cartels are definitely part of it, but... I think there's good reason for the West to get on the same page. 00:20:02    CHRISTOPHER MEYER Absolutely. So we will end it there for a first great chat. And I think next time we'll get into the juicy story of Lai Cheng Zing, the bigot China's supposed most wanted. Or what was he? So I'll leave it at that and we'll pick it up next time. You have to say, 00:20:21    SAM COOPER have to say, I'm sitting there doing my research. I get your book. And all of a sudden, within 50 pages, the lights are going off because you wrote about Lai Changxin and it just completed some thoughts that I was mulling over. And yeah, we're going to have an interesting conversation about Lai Changxin. 00:20:40    CHRISTOPHER MEYER That touches my heart because I've always been a brother of the United States and I've felt so disheartened that bad people have gotten in between us and we have to stop that. And as you say, we need to get together on this. I've reached some good thinkers in the US and there's now things brewing. So let's keep it going. You got it. 00:21:01    Close Thanks for listening. If you get a chance, please like and subscribe and rate the show on your favorite podcast platform. Also, if you're interested in coming on the show or hosting an episode, email us at capodcasting@gmail.com. I'll have the email and CA Association website in the show notes. And now, most importantly, to those currently out in the field, working with a partner nation's people or leadership to forward U .S. relations. Thank you all for what you're doing. This is Jack, your host. Stay tuned for more great episodes, One CA Podcast.

Welcome to the One CA Podcast. I'm your host, Jack Gaines.  Today, Colonel Andreas Eckel, commander of the NATO CIMIC Center of Excellence, joins us to discuss the center's work to prepare the alliance for future crises or disasters.    So, let's get started.  --- One CA is a product of the civil affairs association  and brings in people who are current or former military, diplomats, development officers, and field agents to discuss their experiences on the ground with a partner nation's people and leadership. We aim to inspire anyone interested in working in the "last three feet" of U.S. foreign relations.  To contact the show, email us at CApodcasting@gmail.com  or look us up on the Civil Affairs Association website at www.civilaffairsassoc.org --- Special thanks to Jan Křtitel Novák, Jimmy McHugh, and Dorothy Fields for the original version of Diga Diga Do, which aired in 1928 and was then performed by Duke Ellington.  Ellington's version can be found at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e3aJ_9IAIjQ&t=1s --- Transcript 00:00:05 JACK GAINES Welcome to the One CA podcast. This is your host, Jack Gaines. Today, Colonel Andreas Echel, commander of the NATO Civic Center of Excellence, joins us to discuss the center's work to prepare the alliance for future crisis and disasters. So let's get started. 00:00:19 ANDREAS ECKEL What we need to understand a little bit better, and I think that was a very brutal lesson we identified in Afghanistan and in Mali as well, is that military functions in different societies. very, very differently. We have an idea how military looks like and how it works. It might work more the Italian style or the German style or the US style. But basically, I think we have a common set of ideas how military works. And military works completely different in Mali than in Afghanistan than in Germany. And that is based on different societies. So how do we figure that out? It's a very good question. If I had a quick and sharp answer to that one, I think I would be the winner of the $1 million question. There are some ingredients to tackle that problem. And one of the ingredients is to understand the environment a little bit better. And that leads to civil military cooperation. The one centerpiece of civil military cooperation is to understand the environment better. to nest military activities in the civil environment in a better way. It creates more converging effects and creates less harm to the civil population. And I think the next thing is you need to have long -lasting relationships. Relationship that is built up, that's great. If it lasts one year, that's great. And if you just end it then, Basically, you have achieved almost nothing. So long -lasting relationships and to understand the civil environment better. And we have to understand that we are not the ivory tower of knowledge. What do we know? What does the military know about Mali and Afghanistan? Basically nothing. We have to be more and better in contact with the civil organizations, with academia, with knowledge centers. that are engaged in those areas since 20, 30, 40, 50 years. And we have to be in a dialogue with them and have to extract their knowledge about the key civil factors and have to integrate that better in military considerations. 00:02:32 JACK GAINES So you have to be a diplomat in two directions because you've got to be reaching out to the partner nation like Mali, working with her counterparts there. You have to be a diplomat with partner agencies within the government and academia, as you were saying, or else you're going to miss a step. So you really have to work your way across the spectrum. 00:02:52 ANDREAS ECKEL Yeah, I like your picture of being a diplomat because exactly as you mentioned, it's a diplomat in both ways, but you have to be a translator as well. So civil environment, civil actors, civil counterparts speak a different language than we. And we really have to make sure that what they say. is understood by the military and what the military means properly translated in how the civilians understand it. 00:03:17 JACK GAINES You know, and that's a good point because I've seen civil affairs civic officers come in and try to brief leadership on certain issues. And if it wasn't absolutely clear and in the language that that matter knew, they usually were dismissed and it wasn't as effective an operation because of it. 00:03:34 ANDREAS ECKEL And by the way, at the beginning of my career in the military function of CIMIC, it happened to me too. So one of my first appearance of the stage briefing the commander about some civil factors was a complete disaster because I underestimated how many minutes I only have to bring over some key messages to the commander. So I talked too long and did not come to the point. And I think that's the point where the CCOE is really in a responsibility. We have to provide in our courses the overview, the background, and we provide expertise and challenge them with tasks to apply the expertise. But at the very end of every course, we tell them, hey, CIMIC is important, and it is important to understand the environment, and it is important to integrate civil factors and military considerations. However, when you are confronted with decision makers, Your product needs to be crisp and sharp. If you provide a product to your commander, which exceeds three pages, then you can throw it in the dustbin. By the way, one page is better than three pages. And I think simakers have the tendency, and I include myself specifically into that one, to speak too long and to explain too long and not to come to the point. And if at the end of your statement there is no so what and what's next, well, then don't say anything. That's better. 00:05:08 JACK GAINES Well, for this podcast, I appreciate you speaking too much. That's a good thing. But I also understand it's a challenge, but once you get used to it, I think it's super, super helpful. 00:05:19 ANDREAS ECKEL helpful. What we both concluded coming to the point should not be mixed up with not doing your analysis. Only because you have two minutes to brief your commander about a major actor that will impact his operation. doesn't mean that your analysis should only be two minutes. So you have to provide the analysis for an in -depth briefing, if required, to integrate that knowledge and your assessment in the staff work of the other branches. So it needs to be both a very in -depth, precise analysis and assessment. And then it is your time on the stage. The light will shine on you for two minutes. That's it. 00:05:59 JACK GAINES That brings up a story on my side. sent one of my pitch decks to a former boss. And he took it, he read it, and then he read all of the sources that I had put in the back. And so he knew the subject just as well as I did when we met. And I was like, holy cow. Yes, it's important to do good research before you put together your summary because you never know how deep somebody's going to dive into an issue. And if you've done bad research and they catch it, you're done. So one of the things that... Being that diplomat, both to the military and to other government bodies. One thing that I found at the Strategic Foresight Conference, and it was in your report as well, is that SIMIC needs clarification of capabilities in peace and crisis. And what feedback I got from meetings was that not all militaries have a strong relationship with their public. That's a big concern because if a military doesn't have the trust. When you get to a crisis or a disaster, you've got to really overcome a lot in order just to provide aid and support. 00:07:07 ANDREAS ECKEL Yeah, that's a crucial point. I have two takes on that. The first one is we have nations that do allow, on the very lowest tactical level, the interaction between military and the civil world. But it is a question of being honest to ourselves. That is not applicable in all countries. Our countries in the alliance are very restrictive interaction with civil environment, with civil authorities, at least on the lower tactical level. And that brings me to my second point. It's a national responsibility. So when we talk about CIMIC as a military function, then we have to look at it from two sides. One is NATO CIMIC is embedded in a NATO command structure, NATO force structure. However, NATO is operating. on the soil of sovereign nations. So we promote and stimulate that nations build up, maintain, and integrate a kind of simic capability. We call that domestic simic. We made a proposal for what domestic simic is. However, nations are completely free to fill that skeleton with their structures. They can call it a domestic simic. They can call it territorial forces. They can call it Homeland Defense Forces. It doesn't matter how they fill in that skeleton as long as they do provide civil factor integration, as long as they execute civil -military interaction. And for the Alliance as a whole to plan and prepare and conduct successful operations, we need to plug in to the national simic domains and the domestic simic domains. And we have to do that. via the national military structures. So what we do in deterrence and defense -related scenarios is a little bit differing from what we have done in international crisis management in the past. When CIMIC teams from the alliance or whatever security force was implemented in that, we very often did the civil -military interaction with civil partners on the ground by ourselves without using any layer in between us. But when we do that now as NATO in Germany and Poland, Lithuania, Romania, and we have to plug into their military structures and via them with the civil actors on the ground. And nations consider that very differently. So there are nations that say, hey, great that you're in. Please feel free to speak to our civil organizations by yourself. It would be nice if you inform us afterwards. Everything's great. The nations are more restrictive and say, hey, guys. a ministry, whenever you talk to an organization, whenever you talk to civil partners, please do that via us and ask us first. So there is a variety of how nations would like to have that executed, and we as Symmakers have to adapt. 00:10:08 JACK GAINES Right. What I've seen is that disaster relief and crisis coordination between the military and the civil governments is fairly good, but I'm not seeing the emotional side as much. What I mean is, We just had the Marine Corps Marathon. And people all crossed D .C. and around the country came. They ran their 24 miles. These kind of military events where people go, they see some type of form of patriotism, honor guards at sporting events or marathons or the military band performing on the park plots. Those things make a difference. And I don't know if that was also included in your... Have you seen anything like that? 00:10:55 ANDREAS ECKEL In the last years, when we talked about the use of military assets in our nations, it was to overcome disasters. It was to provide military assistance to civil organizations to overcome flooding, fires, or whatever. But the situation has changed a little bit. And now it is not so much about military assistance in case of man -made big disasters. It's more about civil defense. It's more about stimulating the civil support to military operations and the mutual support in case of crisis and war. And I think that notion is quite new to many European countries. In Germany, it was... support of the military to the civil authorities in case of disasters. But when you look into Sweden, Norway, and Finland, they have since decades a kind of total defense strategy. They have a DNA about that the whole of the nation needs to be ready to defend the nation. And that starts already when you go into your cellar. Is there water? Is there food? Are there batteries? And when you do that in Finland, Sweden, Norway, the answer is yes, there is food and there is water. And I was quite astonished. A couple of years ago, I had a NATO course in Helsinki. At that time, when Helsinki was still a NATO partner and not a NATO nation. And it was an exported course from NATO School of Ammergau. And during the weekend, we had the opportunity to visit Helsinki. And we... came across a protection infrastructure was located to protect the civilians. And the lady asked us, do you have an idea for how many citizens of Helsinki we have shelter? And I said, well, 50%. And she was smiling and she was collecting all the numbers. And then she came up and said, for every citizen in Helsinki, there is shelter. And that's the difference. A regularly trained system of civil defense. And military defense working hand in hand. I think that makes a difference. And I see that coming up in Europe. And again, I would like to use the example of Germany. Since the last couple of years, a lot of more effort has been put into the training and the exchange of information and the exercising of those structures. And I think we are getting there. The point is... When you have dismantled those structures, those strategies since 1990, because our enemy was disappearing, never disappeared. He was just dormant and has been woken up a couple of years ago. But to reinstall that, reactivate that, revitalize that, that takes years and years. So we are at the beginning. I'm a very optimistic person. I strongly hope that we are getting to a point quick enough that when The Russian beer is looking again to Europe when he has solved his problem in Ukraine, that we are ready at that point. And there are substantial measurements that we need to be ready latest in four to five years. And CIMIC plays a role in that because your armed forces can be as good as possible when the civil environment is vulnerable and stays vulnerable and is not able to absorb shocks and to compensate the shocks at a better level after the shock. then you will lose the conflict. That's crystal clear. Even in that time in 2023, where it seemed, at least for some time, that the Ukrainians have regained the initiative, the Russians did attack the civil infrastructure, the energy infrastructure, the transport infrastructure, the health infrastructure. And they were still winning at that battlefield, although they had massive casualties on the fighting battlefield. And I think where Ukraine will run into massive problems this year is that the Russians may not have the big tactical victory. They may not have the breakthrough through the Ukrainian defense lines. But what they will do is they will seriously damage the Ukrainian energy infrastructure, health infrastructure, transport infrastructure. Third year in a row. And I'm not sure if the Ukrainians will be really able to compensate that this time. 00:15:40 JACK GAINES It's a real challenge. The thing that I see with Ukraine is that there's also a recruiting issue. They're struggling to keep up with manpower. And there's some international volunteers coming in, but probably not enough compared to what the Russians are bringing in. So it's a challenge of numbers in a lot of ways. They do build that trust and that familiarity with the military. So having the military band come out and play on the Konigstrasse makes a difference. Or like they did in Poland, having American and Polish troops go with a vehicle and park in the middle of a Platz and take photos with kids, it makes a difference. 00:16:24 ANDREAS ECKEL You're right. Your argument is good. And it connects pretty well with the... decisions we have to make in Europe right now. And that decision is that we have to nest the military better into the societies. But what needs to be installed, reactivated, and built up is a whole of society approach for resilience and civil defense. 00:16:52 JACK GAINES Okay. The biggest challenge right now is sabotage, which has been happening. in and around Europe, the Chinese ship that cut the communication lines, the water poisoning in Germany. So there seems to be already challenges in security. 00:17:09 ANDREAS ECKEL SIMIC plays, first of all, a vital role in understanding the impact of such events, as we do not only look at the impact on military infrastructure and military organizations and units, but it's our task to look how those events impact the civil actors in the civil environment. And that will have definitely a result on the capability of a civil environment to provide support to military activities. So it's a kind of circle. And we are pushing that constantly to have a permanent assessment cycle on what we do, what happens to us, how does that impact the civil environment and the impacted civil environment? How is that still able? to provide the support to the military. And I think as we are in that position to have those connections to the other organizations and to provide a holistic assessment about the civil environment, that plays a vital role in that one. Absolutely. 00:18:11 JACK GAINES So do you see that as the future of CIMIC from now going forward is to build that more holistic partner nation? 00:18:17 ANDREAS ECKEL I would like to use the... definition of multi -domain operations as it is currently used in NATO, and that is the orchestration of all military activities to achieve converging effects. And I see the future role of CIMIC very much in that synchronization effort. So military capabilities are much, much less available than in the past. So when we think about what we need about capacities and resources to achieve our military strategic objectives, when we go into the details, 60, 70, partly 80 % of what we need as resource is not generated within the military. It needs to be contracted and provided by a civil environment. And that means that there needs to be a constant assessment process about the availability of those 60, 70, 80 % civil support. And it needs to be thoroughly assessed because that has a pushing out effect on the civil environment. When we use the trains for military equipment, then those trains cannot be used to support and supply the civil environment. So I think the future of CIMEC is in that synchronization bit with the non -military activities to reach those converging effects. And that pretty much fits into the whole of government, whole of society approach of defense. 00:19:49 JACK GAINES Interesting. So CIMIC is in multi -domain operations, has its own multi -domain operation because it's coordinating the civil, government, NGOs, whoever is not formal military. in cooperation or in conjunction with the military's multi -domain operations. So you've got a multi -tiered coordination process. 00:20:12 ANDREAS ECKEL process. I think we do not run our own multi -domain operations. A multi -tiered task, I think that that captures it quite well. But I personally prefer to speak more about cooperation because coordination is a very tricky expression, especially in Europe. as coordination requires someone who allows to be coordinated and someone who has a coordinating authority. And in the interaction with our civil partners, it's more cooperation, ranging from we do exist beside each other to full integrated planning and operations. There's a continuum of that area of cooperation. So I do really prefer to speak more about cooperation than coordination. 00:21:04 JACK GAINES Is there any other topics or thoughts that you want to add to the conversation? 00:21:11 ANDREAS ECKEL For me, it's really important to highlight the future concepts like multi -domain operations and to establish and maintain the connection with the current concepts. So it is important to keep the future world of NATO connected to the current operational world of NATO. That is exactly why we run the annual Simic Foresight Conference, is to connect the here and now with the time period of one to two years to the future concepts, 10, 20 years. And secondly, the closer connection and the better synchronization of the national efforts with the alliance efforts. That is really, I think, a key centerpiece of our future success. So in my understanding, it is ongoing. It is happening in the alliance as we speak right now. So alliance, joint headquarters, strategic headquarters have established contacts to national military authorities and do exchange information. But I think that needs to become more intensive, more regularly and more information flow to both sides. And that needs to be not only... foreseen conceptually and structurally, it needs to be trained and exerciseda reagularly. And I think that's really a clear measurement of success if we are able to exercise it in the future massively. And thirdly, I think the aspect of human security and protection of civilians, that is something which creates a dilemma for every military leader because he would like to achieve his military objectives. That is either to defeat the enemy or to force him to do something or to force him to stay away from something, which means the application of massive violence to the enemy. However, when we learn something from the recent international crisis or from the war in Ukraine, then what we have learned is the battlefield is full of civilians that have requirements, that have needs. The battlefield is full of organizations, non -governmental governmental organizations that try to provide a certain amount of services to the civilians. And it doesn't matter if it is a war zone or the rear area or the area behind the rear area. We have to realize that it is and will remain full of civilians. To evacuate a city like Kiev is nonsense. That will never happen. 23 million people. Yeah, good luck with that one. And even if you try, the majority of the capabilities will be provided by the civilian world. So human security, protection of civilians are concepts which are mandatory for NATO. NATO has adhered to it. We have adopted it in our strategies, in our plans, into our operations. But what does that really mean? How do we really translate protection of civilian and human security? into operations on the operational and even on the tactical level. And I think that needs some assistance, how to operationalize it, how to conduct, how to do it. This assistance, in my understanding, is called mindset and SIMIC. Terrific. It's good to do SIMIC, but you have to talk about it. It's good to increase the awareness, but you have to publish it. So I am very grateful and very thankful to have the opportunity to talk with you. Thank you very much. I appreciate you coming on. Thank you very much and have a good day. 00:25:00 JACK GAINES working with a partner nation's people or leadership to forward U.S. relations. Thank you all for what you're doing. This is Jack, your host. Stay tuned for more great episodes, One CA Podcast.

In this episode Brian Hancock talks with Kurt Dykstra and Joshua Weikart to discuss the 38 Golf Program, the Functional Specialty Team Construct, and the recent Functional Specialty Team Symposium. Major Dykstra and Captain Weikert, welcome to the show. Thank you very much. Wonderful to be here. --- One CA is a product of the civil affairs association  and brings in current or former military personnel, diplomats, development officers, and field agents to discuss their experiences on the ground with the people and leadership of a partner nation. We aim to inspire anyone interested in working in the "last three feet" of U.S. foreign relations.  To contact the show, email us at CApodcasting@gmail.com  or look us up on the Civil Affairs Association website at www civilaffairsassoc.org --- Special thanks to Art Music for a sample from the song "January | Instrumental Background Music." Retrieved from: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2E0orz_C33I --- Transcript 00:00:03 INTRODUCTION Welcome to the 1CA Podcast. This is your host, Jack Gaines. 1CA is a product of the Civil Affairs Association and brings in people who are current or former military, diplomats, development officers, and field agents to discuss their experiences on ground with a partner nation's people and leadership. Our goal is to inspire anyone interested in working the last three feet of foreign relations. To contact the show, email us at capodcasting@gmail.com or look us up on the Civil Affairs Association website at www.civilaffairsassoc.org. I'll have those in the show notes. 00:00:39 BRIAN HANCOCK I'm Lieutenant Colonel Brian Hancock, and I will be your host for this session. Today, we have with us Major Kurt Dykstra and Joshua Weikert  and  Joshua Weikert  and Captain Joshua Weikert to discuss the 38 golf program and the recent Functional Specialty Team Symposium. Major Dykstra and Captain Weikert, welcome to the show. Thanks very much. Wonderful to be here. Thank you, sir. 00:01:26 BRIAN HANCOCK A quick disclaimer while we're here that the remarks of myself and the participants are solely ours. All right, gentlemen, let's jump into it. From the beginning, what attracted you to U.S. Army civil affairs? Well, I can start that answer. So I'm a bit older, as you might have gathered from my bio. 00:01:43 KURT DYKSTRA a bit older, as you might have gathered from my bio. And at various points in my adult life, I had thought about entering into military service. And for one reason or another, It just didn't happen. And it was always a great regret in my life that I had not served and saw it as something that I wish I would have done. And then about four or so years ago, I got a call from a friend of a friend who at the time was a major who was recruiting for this new golf program. And we really didn't know each other, but we sort of had moved in similar circles and knew the same people and those sorts of things. And my wife and I were hiking the Appalachian Trail and I was having breakfast one morning and got a phone call from Colonel Koinga, as he retells the story, I think within an hour or two, I said something like, sounds good to me, let's do it. Of course, I did talk with my wife and those sorts of things, but that's my pathway in and a bit unique perhaps, but I think a story that has some resonance with many of the other gulfs, particularly those who were not prior service, that this was fulfilling an opportunity that they had, that they had wished that they had taken earlier, which was to serve the country through the military. 00:02:51 BRIAN HANCOCK the country through the military. Well, first of all, Kurt, you're not that old. You look very young and healthy to me. And so you're doing something right. So good for you. I'm thrilled that you have chosen to give both the Army and civil affairs a chance. We definitely need the type of skills that you bring to the table. Now, let me turn to you, Captain Weicker. Tell me a little bit about your journey getting here. Well, I was a prior service soldier. 00:03:16 JOSHUA WEIKERT  prior service soldier. Also being the pre -law advisor at my university, I had a pre -law student who was interested in the Army JAG program. And she had asked me to look into direct commissioning programs in the Army in general, knowing that I was a veteran and had some experience in this area. And I stumbled across the 38 Gulf page on the Army Talent Management website. And it was such an immediately obvious fit because I teach politics, but I also do politics. I work for the House of Representatives. And for that matter, when I go out looking for faculty members to hire, I like looking for people who are practitioners as well as being scholars. And this really dovetailed very nicely into that model. And it struck me as something with a very clear need. It also struck me as something that, especially as we think about lessons learned from Iraq and Afghanistan and 20 years of deployments, that this was an area where the Army could really bone up its skills and get more into capacity building both within our formations and also the places where we operate. So it struck me as something that was both important and extremely interesting. 00:04:13 BRIAN HANCOCK Well, very glad that you're here. The background that you both have in politics and helping. do governance on an almost daily basis. It makes me wonder, how would we train something like transitional governance? This is one of our core capabilities. I don't know if the program does things like that. I think there's a big future for us in this area. And both of you have the background to help us move in that direction. Well, in the early 2000s, 00:04:44 JOSHUA WEIKERT  the DOD had... conducted a review of all the civil administration and civil affairs tasks that were out there that the Army engages in. And they came up with a list of something like 1 ,400 different tasks. And they combed through this list and started identifying things that are not currently met. So where are the areas where the Army needs help? And out of that derived these 18 skill identifiers within the 38 Gulf program, covering a broad range of civil skills. And these include things like... finance, education, and border security, and law, regulation, and policy, and this cultural heritage and property protection. And the goal of the program is essentially to enhance a commander's ability to operate in a stable civil environment, to foresee and address any likely challenges that should crop up, so that commanders can focus on accomplishing their primary image. 00:05:33 KURT DYKSTRA AND  JOSHUA WEIKERT  Yeah, if I might jump in a little bit on that as well, either read the book or see the movie Monuments Men, then that gives you a little bit of a sense. In World War II, The U .S. were heading across Western Europe. They needed help to identify certain things, whether it's art, whether it's the significance of structures. And those are skills that the Army just didn't have. So the George Clooney's of the world, who at the time were art historians and museum curators, were brought into the Army's orbit to assist in those tasks. And that's kind of the history of the program that goes way back when, and then it was recently restarted in many ways and broadened as Captain Weigert. has been describing. So in some ways, I describe our role as consultants with specific civilian side expertise that the Army simply does not have to assist the Army to be able to do things that it otherwise might not be able to do. So we get called upon to assist in some of those areas that are more specialized than what the Army generally might have. And in other ways, like other civil affairs officers, you know, we're kind of the Army's diplomatic corps. So it's really those combinations, but the Gulf program specifically brings a very specific and in -depth civilian skill set to be used for Army purposes. 00:06:47 BRIAN HANCOCK set to be used for Army purposes. It sounds a little bit similar to some of the specialists we have with surgeons and lawyers, but also different at the same time. When we were deployed in Iraq and Afghanistan, we definitely could have used these capabilities in all of these special functional areas. The Department of State tries their best to fill that gap, but the reality is that they're a relatively small organization that isn't necessarily equipped to go to non -permissive environments for extended periods of time. So for transitional governments, I think the heavy lift tends to fall on the military, and you really can't rebuild a government without trying to rebuild the economy and those other threads that tie into that tapestry. I'm very excited for the future with you guys on board. One of the initial challenges is that there wasn't necessarily a clear career progression through every rank for these soldiers. They couldn't follow the 38 Alpha career progression. Has that been relooked at? We do have a quasi -path through your military education. 00:07:57 JOSHUA WEIKERT  a quasi -path through your military education. We do not yet have a basic officer leadership course, though we are currently piggybacking on Medical Services Bullock down here at Fort Sam. which is actually where they both are right now. But my understanding is that a 38 golf at CA Bullock course is in development, and I volunteered some of my time doing some of the course materials for that. And of course, we do have the civil affairs captain's course as well as an option. Beyond that, I'm not certain at all. But for Major Dykstra, if he has more information on that. 00:08:26 KURT DYKSTRA AND  JOSHUA WEIKERT  Much of this has been like jazz. There's been a certain underlying beat that's there, and there's a lot of improvisation that happens along the way. And Captain Weikert is exactly correct that we do DCC largely with the JAG DCC. And then we sort of peg on BOLIC, either AG or AMED, and AMED seems to be the preferred course right now. And to me, this is an area for improvement. We've gone through two school experiences without having any sort of direct training for what it is that we do. And that feels to me like an area that we can improve upon. And I think that is in process, as Captain Weikert mentioned with. With large organizations, particularly the U.S. Army, all that sort of thing takes time. Yeah, it does. But I do think that as the program matures, as there are more people within it for longer periods of time, a lot of the questions about career path and specifics along those lines, frankly, either be worked out by doctrine or they'll be worked out by the process of having people going through these programs and through the ranks and getting OERs and those kinds of things. So I'm not as concerned about that. A ladder piece is what I think that it would be beneficial for the golf program to have better formal education laid out sooner as we see with most other MOCs. 00:09:37 BRIAN HANCOCK other MOCs. It makes sense to me. It is clever, though, to piggyback on a professional MOS. Many reservists have a similar challenge who aren't 38 golfs because a lot of the professional military education that we funnel through. is geared towards combat arms. And of course, for reserve soldiers, what we do is largely support. But in terms of professional military education, understanding some of these other professions like medicine and pieces of logistics and information operations, professional military education historically has not been geared to advance the tradecraft of those individuals. So I think there's a larger movement within the Army at large, though, to create more specialized training. Unlike the Marine Corps, where they have fewer MOSs and folks have to be a little bit more of a generalist, the fact that we have so many specialty MOSs in the Army, I think, lends itself to the ability to stand up individual branches that can run its own training. And within the functional specialties of the 38 golf program, you might even need an entire course dedicated. to each of those functional areas because they're really quite different. 38 golfs are contained within the functional specialty team construct, like the building where they live within a civil affairs unit. Some folks tend to conflate the 38 golf program with the functional specialty team, not the same. But let's take it a step further. Since the functional specialty team which houses the 38 golf program is a military unit, It, of course, has non -commissioned officers in it as well as officers. Three of us happen to be officers, but non -commissioned officers are very important for us to get things done in the Army. What right now is the role of the non -commissioned officer within functional specialty teams? And gentlemen, where do you see that going? Go ahead, Captain Martin. I think that's exactly right. 00:11:40 JOSHUA WEIKERT  right. And in addition, the just traditional roles that NCOs play in almost any unit in formation in terms of like training plan development and... upward input and things like that. I think the role of NCOs is all the more valuable and important in an FXFB section that includes a significant number of direct commission officers. You need that reinforcing experience even more in that set. And also, as we found out at the symposium in April, many of we had NCOs in attendance, and many of these NCOs are themselves fairly accomplished within their careers on the civilian side. So they have SI. contributions to make as well. So they're an essential part of this formation. 00:12:19 KURT DYKSTRA AND  JOSHUA WEIKERT  Yeah. One of our NCOs was a lawyer of 35 plus years, had done really remarkable things in the civilian side. So the idea that I, as a newly commissioned officer, would come in as the experienced person on the civilian side and he was more experienced on the Army side was true on the one hand, but it also was so much more than that because his civilian expertise was also first rate and really quite impressive. 00:12:41 BRIAN HANCOCK first rate and really quite impressive. That's amazing. And I don't know if the functional specialty teams will select for that type of talent. It certainly exists, at least within the Army Reserve. We're very skill -rich. That is exciting to me. Now, prior to the establishment of the 38 golf program, who was manning the functional specialty teams? 00:13:03 JOSHUA WEIKERT  There is great talent in our formations already. So we had, for example, veterinarians. We had public health practitioners. and people that have civil affairs and what we now think of as sort of 38 Gulf skill sets. With the 38 Gulf program, you have subject matter experts who can get a little further into the weeds in areas where we don't have as much expertise. If someone came up to a practicing JAG lawyer and said, look, we need to design a judiciary system because we're about to massively disrupt the civil administration of this country, they're going to be in the ballpark. They understand courts and civil and criminal procedure and things like that. but they might clearly consider things that I would think of in terms of governmental engineering around separation of powers, how those are selected. And that is what I think 38 Gulfs add to that functional specialty. It lets us accomplish a lot more within the same formation. That makes sense to me. 00:13:51 KURT DYKSTRA AND  JOSHUA WEIKERT  Yeah, I completely agree with that. And clearly the civil affairs units and the FXSPs in particular were doing tremendous work prior to the visioning of the 38 Gulf program. In many cases, it seems as though it might be because of the particular and unique skill sets of those officers and NCOs. I think the Gulf program is trying to actually more systematically identify and bring into the Army persons who have depth to skill. 00:14:17 BRIAN HANCOCK to skill. What I'm hearing is that 38 Gulfs bring out more capability and apply it to the often very complex civil social problems that we work on in the civil affairs community. I read a fair amount of peer -reviewed literature, and I can tell you from that standpoint, since the 38 Gulfs have entered the community, I've seen a lot more peer -reviewed literature coming out. So I think there definitely is some effect from this program, and I'm really excited to see where it's going to lead. Now, at the end of April, the 304th Civil Affairs Brigade, which is commanded by Colonel Toby Humphries, convened the first -ever functional specialty team symposium. How did that come about? What's the history there? Colonel Daniel Fletcher is the FXSP chief of the drill fourth. 00:15:03 KURT DYKSTRA AND  JOSHUA WEIKERT  chief of the drill fourth. So I was as green as they come. And Colonel Fletcher, he was incredibly helpful and kind to me to help me figure out some things. And through that, he learned that there was an onboarding and utility gap of how are we supposed to use these golfs? And he asked around up and down the chain in other units and found out that lots of people were having the same kind of question. So this, I think, was the impetus that he had then to say, well, let's get some people together to talk about some of these issues and see if we can't find solutions to some of these challenges. And then he and our CEO, Colonel Humphreys, talked. And Colonel Humphreys was, as I'm told, immediately enthusiastically on board for this effort. And then through lots of laboring hours and the work of many good officers and NCOs, we put together this symposium. It was a really rich learning experience, let alone a great networking opportunity. 00:16:01 BRIAN HANCOCK That sounds amazing. I almost wish I had been there. I know one of my mentors, Colonel Bradford Hughes, was there, and probably some of his team as well. What were some of the topics you guys discussed, and did you come to any conclusions or lessons learned that you'd like to share with the community? We had essentially three large chunks. 00:16:19 JOSHUA WEIKERT  three large chunks. One was around organization and operations of 38 golfs and ethics SP sections. One was around training and doctrine. And then we specifically also discussed recruitment and personnel and lengthy discussions around accessions and initial onboarding. And we covered a lot of ground in three days. The white paper that is just about ready to be disseminated details the findings and does make some recommendations. But I think far more important than any particular recommendation that came out of it was the fact that we were able to draw all these discussions into one place and one location at one time. I have to believe, greatly increases the likelihood that they are ultimately acted upon because we were able to draw from everyone's best practices and identify where our collective gaps were. And as we sort of pass this up to USKPOC and the command level, this is something that is going to be a little more valuable simply because we were able to reach consensus on even just our concerns. 00:17:17 KURT DYKSTRA AND  JOSHUA WEIKERT  Exactly. It was a tremendously rich experience and a breadth of topics. And you mentioned Colonel Hughes. And he and his team have, I think, sort of set the pace for many of the KCOMs in terms of how they're using gulps in particular. And so I was a bit familiar with him through the literature and through various email types of things, but I'd never really talked with him before. Unfortunately, he couldn't be there in person, so he was presented by a team. But then got the chance to meet him this summer in Madison, Wisconsin, at a training event at the University of Wisconsin. And you want to talk about officers who are... just stellar in terms of their knowledge, but also stellar in terms of character and quality of person. Carl Hughes is right up there as well. So it was just an incredible experience to learn from other KCOMs and to understand history and some of the doctrine issues that arise and to identify road bumps or landmines and avoid them or fix them. But a really great experience that I think was appreciated by all who attended. 00:18:17 JOSHUA WEIKERT  all who attended. One of the things that came out of the symposium for me in terms of like genuinely new things that I learned, is that at one point there was the establishment of this Institute for Military Support to Governance, which was formed specifically to identify and support reservists with civilian acquired skills that were applicable to these functional areas. And it sounds like it was a forerunner in many ways to what we think of as the 38 Gulf program today. And it still exists, at least as far as we can tell, absolutely unclear what current status is. But this is something that came up several times during the symposium, is that that could be something that could function as a vehicle to address some of the coordinating. challenges we face and maybe even some of the accessions on board be challenged. And it will just remain to be seen if that's something we can vitalize or revitalize. I love the way you're thinking. 00:19:01 KURT DYKSTRA AND  JOSHUA WEIKERT  Sir, this is part of the benefit of having an academic like Captain Weikert in the planning team. He thinks institutionally and thinks strategically in terms of the doctrine aspect of things. It's not just operational or tactical. The other thing I would mention is Captain Weikert mentioned The white paper from the symposium is soon to be published, but there was an article in the latest edition of The Shield that gives a more thinner or more popular description of what the symposium did and what it accomplished and who was there. So I would encourage any listener who is at least somewhat curious about the symposium to check out The Shield article and then be able to look out for the upcoming white paper. 00:19:40 BRIAN HANCOCK Let me ask you, gentlemen, a test question now that I've got you both warmed up and unsuspecting here. Field manual, three -tack, five -step, civil affairs operations, our Bible, recently updated. It added this new task of civil network development and engagement, or CNDE, which in itself is pretty complicated because we're talking about mapping and engaging interrelated complex adaptive systems. Okay, so mathematically, at least, it's already very complicated. Now, considering how deep the expertise is, within the 38 Gulf community, I would suspect that those folks with those credentials in those communities are probably in a very good position to advance civil network development engagement within their specialty areas. Now let's talk about that concept within the broader Army concept. We're all professionals at this level of our career. How are we as an institution, in your opinion, measuring the strength of the professional networks that we are bringing with us, which are an asset for both civilian and the military? How could we include the strength of someone's network as, say, part of their promotion or board packages? Do you have any thoughts how the Army as an institution could take a better measure? of our professional networks and ability to leverage them to achieve commander's effects. I can say that it did come up at the symposium among that group of 38 Golfs and FXSP members in attendance that this was an essential part of just understanding what our own capabilities were and how do we track and map where everyone lands in terms of their skill sets. 00:21:13 JOSHUA WEIKERT  that it did come up at the symposium among that group of 38 Golfs and FXSP members in attendance that this was an essential part of just understanding what our own capabilities were and how do we track and map where everyone lands in terms of their skill sets. So it was something of general interest at the symposium, and it also came up in the context of how we developed training. for 38 golfs and for civil affairs units more generally. And those efforts are likely to be ongoing. But in terms of how to do it, I think it should be relatively straightforward because we already have some of these things sort of populated in the soldier talent profile at HRC, for example. And if we simply adapt that and augment it to specifically identify for civil skills and civil networks, it shouldn't be too challenging to at least get that on paper. Now, how you operationalize that and put it to work is a more challenging question, obviously. 00:22:03 KURT DYKSTRA But it does seem to me as though there is a lot of ad hoc -ness to the way this is happening so far. The point and purpose of the Gulf program is to really get into uniform persons with skills that the Army was lacking. And if we simply have them but don't know about them and don't utilize them and leverage them and execute on them, then maybe to put it in a more concrete way, if we're simply relying upon, I know a guy or I know a gal who has that experience and they happen to be over there. in the 352, well, that's better than not having that information. But it's not really how you want to be running a program like this. Better to have a much more institutionalized, formalized means of understanding networks so that we can affect the broad array of a civil society. Because as we all understand, if a civil society breaks down, it's not just one thing that needs to be addressed. It's about 175 things that need to be addressed. in order for civil society to work. So there's still work to be done there, but I am heartened by the fact that the Gulf community is a robust one intrapersonally and continuing to be more so. And these topics of more institutionalizing that kind of knowledge is absolutely on the topic of conversation for many people who are thinking more seriously about how to do that. 00:23:18 BRIAN HANCOCK people who are thinking more seriously about how to do that. I love the fact that this community is actually thinking about these difficult questions that not only affect the army, but... affect the force as a whole and strategically affect our ability to compete and deter, ideally avoiding conflict altogether. And these are things that we have to understand. What networks, how do we invest in them? How do we, if necessary, appropriate them to steer the world away from costly conflict? That is something that needs more attention, 00:23:49 JOSHUA WEIKERT  more attention, is there is a very, very, very robust peace mission for 38 Gulf. And I think it's important to remember, too, as we think about how we exploit these talents. For example, the same way our conservationists and cultural property protection folks have a partnership with the Smithsonian, we would want to see that within every skill identifier, that institutional partner becomes a potential warehouse of understanding what their aside people can do and how they can contribute as well. So I think at present, it is very interpersonal, and it's great that we do have that network of folks. But I also think that that is something that will get augmented once we have everything built out to its fullest expression. Carty, do you have a thought on that? 00:24:26 KURT DYKSTRA  I was just going to say that we want to be in a spot to have those networks built out and an understanding of the places in which we operate before any hostilities break out. These things are happening and they're happening because of the good work of a whole lot of people, but the program is still pretty young. So we're still gaining our legs and still building it out. And with the kind of caliber of people we have in uniform now through this program, I have no doubt that the future is really, 00:24:50 BRIAN HANCOCK have no doubt that the future is really, really bright. That's wonderful to hear. The Army has done conflict for a long time, right? This idea of competition is still somewhat new to us, so we're not going to expect overnight our doctrine and schooling to change to be able to help us secure that win in competition. But I'm seeing encouraging signs, and I know we're going to head in that direction, and I really believe the 38 Golfs are going to have a very big role as we look to maximize our return on investment and competition, ideally avoiding conflict altogether. Now, at the symposium, I imagine maybe behind closed doors, a very professional and upfront group who's not afraid to talk about challenges. Within those conversations, what... at present, do you see as the single greatest challenge that needs to be overcome within the 38 Golf community? And what are your suggestions to do so? I'll say one thing. 00:25:52 KURT DYKSTRA  To a person who was there, yes, there were some frustrations or constructive criticism ideas, but there was not a person in that room who was not enthusiastic about the program and grateful to be a part of it. So I think part of the challenge in a twofold piece, and both of these things have to do with the program being relatively new. The first one I would say is the accession process and the identification process. How does someone go from never having worn a uniform in the history of their life to commissioning? And how does that process work? And how long does it take for that to happen? Part of the challenge that we see, and I think it's getting better, I was maybe second class of Gulfs that came in, is that it was an on -again, off -again process for close to two years. And if we are trying to identify highly skilled, highly talented, highly experienced civilian personnel to come into uniform, a two -year process is problematic. 00:26:51 BRIAN HANCOCK is problematic. It's strange to me because my recruiter had me in boots before I left his office. And that was actually part of the discussion. 00:26:59 KURT DYKSTRA AND  that was actually part of the discussion. In so many other areas, Army recruiting is really, really strong, and there's a clearly established path that you do. And because of the newness and kind of quirkiness of this program, there's less of that, and we're sort of building the ship as we're sailing. Yesterday in the hotel here at Fort Sam, I met a thoracic surgeon who was newly commissioned. And some of those areas that maybe have experience with highly skilled civilian practitioners. coming newly into the Army that have paths that are a bit more developed than what the golf program is. So again, I think it has gotten much better, but it takes time. 00:27:36 JOSHUA WEIKERT  time. I think as the program grows and we sort of meet our staffing benchmarks and as we get more practice and more reps in the process, I do believe a lot of this will hire. I think it will as well. The other thing I would say is having the ability for a civil affairs bullet to come into play. 00:27:49 KURT DYKSTRA  having the ability for a civil affairs bullet to come into play. We latched on with mainly the JAG officers for GCC and there's... a lot that's great about that, especially as a lawyer. It was very strange. So there were about 100 of us in our Bolick class. All but five of us, I think, were JAG officers. But I was the lawyer who wasn't the JAG. And I was the old guy. So it was really, it was a fascinating couple of months and a lot of fun. But we were sort of sitting along the side as they were talking lots of things about JAG school and what happened next for them. And then to be at AMED Bolick, again, it's a similar sort of thing. And there's, especially for someone new to the Army like me, being around people in the Army is invaluable, regardless of whether it's directly related to my MOS or not. But at some point, it would be helpful to get some specialized training about what it is that the Army expects me to do, apart from the civilian experience that I bring to the table. 00:28:45 JOSHUA WEIKERT  In terms of challenges within 38 Gulf, I also find that, organizationally speaking, is how we connect 38 Gulfs with commanders and missions. Because at present, we are relying on these informal networks to pass information along about we need six Delta to go to Poland in two weeks. Who's available? You know, things like that. That's always going to be inefficient, for one thing. We realize a little too much on that ad hoc communications network. And it also means that commanders can't go looking for 38 Gulfs either. So what I think will have to happen sooner or later is having some kind of centralized. repository of mission and or task information that 38 Gulfs can go to and look at ongoing missions or missions in planning. And at the same time, some kind of searchable database where commanders can go find those people. And there are institutions and organizations that have this set up in existence. So it's not something we need to reinvent. It's just something we need to consolidate because it is just very unlikely that every formation in a civil affairs unit will happen to have the right people for their region and their missions. We need to be better to get good information down to every individual 38 golf and up to every commander. And that's just going to take time and awareness to them. 00:29:51 BRIAN HANCOCK time and awareness to them. That makes perfect sense. So that would help you grow in your skill set and mature your capability as well for everyone's benefit. Totally sold on that. And I think in time, as you mentioned, that's probably going to be developed and roll out. We've talked a lot about the 38 golf program today. Very exciting. I think certainly the best thing that's happened to civil affairs in decades. And I believe over time it'll be one of the best things that's ever happened to the Army and to the military at large. Very exciting. Those in the audience who are listening, who are interested in learning more and perhaps going through that application process, which will shrink in time, of course, what are those steps they need to take? If someone raised their hand and says, sign me up to 38 Golf, what do they do? 00:30:44 JOSHUA WEIKERT  the Army and Hound Management website. If you just Google 38 Gulf Army, I believe the first tip that you'll see. And it's been built out over the past three years, adding more context, more information about the steps. But it essentially begins with laying out the basic requirements for the program, which is at least a master's degree in a relevant SI field, and at least professional experience in that as well. Once you've cleared those hurdles, you're then looking at developing your packet, and it does provide good guidance on that. I have already fielded some inquiries from interested NCOs and officers, and there are also some groups that you find on LinkedIn and Signal as well that are very active in discussing this process and how it's going. 00:31:18 BRIAN HANCOCK it's going. Professional football teams don't just recruit from their neighborhood. They go all over the place to get the right specialties, to put them together in the right combination for the right missions and matchups. I love the way you're thinking about putting something together like that. I've honestly felt that... As an institution, one of the things that we should do a little bit better job with in general is knowledge management within the military. If you have deep subject matter expertise, if it's in a very tight area like tech support, they have knowledge bases that you can search. We don't have a lot of tools like that, and we spend a lot of our money on human capital who are producing intellectual property, some of which is lost when a unit rips out or when there isn't a good continuity plan. And of course, the deep knowledge that you're describing, we definitely need a better way to collect, analyze, maintain, and make that accessible. So thinking about 38 Gulfs, and it was described as a consultancy within the Army. 00:32:12 JOSHUA WEIKERT  it was described as a consultancy within the Army. So essentially, a staff officer or commander pauses and says, wait, how do I fill in the blank? That should trigger a call at an RFI down to some kind of 38 Gulf to fill that need. Yeah, and two more comments on that. One, this isn't unique to the Army. 00:32:29 KURT DYKSTRA AND  JOSHUA WEIKERT  to the Army. Any organization of any size will sort of talk about knowledge walking out the door. So this is not a unique situation to the Army, though, of course, it's magnified given the size, scale, and scope of what the U .S. Army does. The second thing I would say is, and this was part of the discussion at the symposium, the Colonel Hughes panel, what the 351st does is they house all of their goals at the KCOM level, as opposed to embedding them in brigades or battalions. And that way... Whether it's the ultimate solution or whether it's a matter of a way to actually get their arms around it, they have a sense as to what their capacity is within the 351st because they're all at the KCOM level and can understand that, oh, we have this issue of an agricultural thing happening in the Philippines. Wonderful. We know who we can send to help out on that mission. As things continue to get better, and they clearly have gotten better. But as this program is longer and more experienced and has more people in it and more knowledge shared through it, I fully expect that the process will get better and the knowledge that we're able to share in social life. 00:33:31 BRIAN HANCOCK I definitely think it will. We're approaching our time for the show. I wanted to give you a few last minutes for each of you. Do you have any final thoughts that you would like to share with the community? First of all, thanks for having us on, 00:33:46 KURT DYKSTRA AND  JOSHUA WEIKERT  on, sir. It's been a real treat to be able to talk with you. In addition to the great resources that Captain Weikert mentioned, feel free to reach out to us if you have questions on the golf program. We may not have all the answers, but we can probably be a good conduit into the network to help get you the answers, or at least the right people who would have the answers. So happy to field any phone calls or emails about the golf program. Awesome. 00:34:07 JOSHUA WEIKERT  And I would just say to anyone who's currently in the pipeline or is thinking about applying or has recently commissioned and is very sort of new to the process, patience is the key. I know it seems like it's taking forever. It has gotten better with every iteration. It seems like the sort of processing time is getting smaller and smaller and all these things. So just hang in there and it does reach a conclusion eventually. 00:34:26 BRIAN HANCOCK a conclusion eventually. Well, thank you both very much, Major Dijkstra and Captain Weikert for coming on the show. That concludes this issue of 1CA Podcast. 00:34:37 Close Thanks for listening. If you get a chance, please like and subscribe and rate the show on your favorite podcast platform. Also, if you're interested in coming on the show or hosting an episode, email us at capodcasting@gmail.com. I'll have the email and CA Association website in the show notes. And now, most importantly, to those currently out in the field, working with a partner nation's people or leadership to forward U.S. relations, thank you all for what you're doing. This is Jack, your host. Stay tuned for more great episodes. One CA Podcast.

Please welcome back Grant Newsham, retired marine colonel and author of When China Attacks,  A Warning to America. Grant came on the show to discuss the state of the Japan Defense Forces and the PRC threat.  This is a two-part episode. Grant's biography: https://centerforsecuritypolicy.org/author/grant-newsham/ Book link: https://www.regnery.com/9781684513659/when-china-attacks/ A recent article: https://andmagazine.substack.com/p/the-us-in-the-pacific-getting-the?utm_source=substack&publication_id=746580&post_id=151553726&utm_medium=email&utm_content=share&utm_campaign=email-share&triggerShare=true&isFreemail=true&r=ercjf&triedRedirect=true --- One CA is a product of the civil affairs association  and brings in people who are current or former military, diplomats, development officers, and field agents to discuss their experiences on the ground with a partner nation's people and leadership. We aim to inspire anyone interested in working in the "last three feet" of U.S. foreign relations.  To contact the show, email us at CApodcasting@gmail.com  or look us up on the Civil Affairs Association website at www civilaffairsassoc.org --- Special thanks to the site Cool Jazz Hot Bossa for the sample of Cool Jazz Hot Bossa. (59:00). Retrieved from: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bdWUj2NYDYQ --- Transcript: (Part I) 00:00:05 JACK GAINES Welcome to the 1CA Podcast. This is your host, Jack Gaines. 1CA is a product of the Civil Affairs Association and brings in people who are current or former military, diplomats, development officers, and field agents to discuss their experiences on ground with the partner nation's people and leadership. Our goal is to inspire anyone interested in working the last three feet of foreign relations. To contact the show, email us at capodcasting@gmail.com. Or look us up on the Civil Affairs Association website at www.civilaffairsassoc.org. I'll have those in the show notes. Please welcome Grant Newsham, retired Marine Colonel and author of When China Attacks, A Warning to America. Grant came on the show to discuss the state of the Japan Defense Forces and the PRC threat. This is the first of a two-part episode, so let's get started. 00:00:56 GRANT NEWSHAM I was effectively MarforPak's guy in Asia for a number of years. which worked well in both directions. So I was obviously in Japan, but also did a lot of work for them throughout the region, Southeast Asia as well, Taiwan even, which was a lot of fun. 00:01:13 JACK GAINES Yeah. And you've become a foreign policy advocate in the area. 00:01:16 GRANT NEWSHAM Yeah. At some point, maybe seven or eight years ago, figured I'd actually done enough stuff to maybe have a few ideas. So I started writing and speak a lot as well. So I guess I'm part of the commentariat. But I seem to write about once a week some topic related to often Asian defense, but sometimes economics, politics, sometimes organized crime. And I do get invited to speak here and there and seem to get a number of television or radio interviews as well. That's really cool. I didn't say I get invited to good things, but I do get the occasional invitation. I used to think it was because I had such insight. Someone told me not all that long ago that actually, if you'll say yes to an interview, you're likely to get more of them. Because the people who book them, they just want to get somebody on. And I thought it was because of my particular wisdom. 00:02:07 JACK GAINES of my particular wisdom. 00:02:09 GRANT NEWSHAM I'm joking a little bit. But obviously, you must have something useful to say. But it is funny. There's one place in Singapore that calls me a lot. It's like their CNN. And they've been calling me. Probably eight years at least, or almost every time, I'll tell the presenters that basically they don't know what they're talking about. And I always think, well, this is the last one, but they keep calling me up. They mislike you because you're the contrarian. 00:02:34 JACK GAINES mislike you because you're the contrarian. 00:02:36 GRANT NEWSHAM Oh, I can blame things in a way that sort of suits broadcast and that sort of regular people can understand, you know, 00:02:42 GRANT NEWSHAM that sort of regular people can understand, you know, being a regular person myself. 00:02:47 JACK GAINES Yeah, you learn to disagree without offending. 00:02:49 GRANT NEWSHAM Usually. And it's always sort of a relief, actually, when you can have a different look at things. 00:02:56 JACK GAINES That's good. I always thought you were going to say it is a relief sometimes when you just peel the coat off and then yell at them. 00:03:02 GRANT NEWSHAM The facts speak for themselves. Right. And if it's a presenter, their role is different, and they will generally not have the substantive knowledge that most of the people on the show will have. Right. And so much of what I have to say is often not... in line with accepted wisdom, particularly when it comes to Japan. Sure. So it's often that I'll have to present a different take on things, but they don't seem to be offended. 00:03:27 JACK GAINES Right. You mostly talk about Japan in its current defense fashion or in its foreign policy actions. 00:03:33 GRANT NEWSHAM A lot of that because people have a perception of Japan, for example, as a pacifist country. It cannot fight. It's peace loving. Right. etc. They have a nuclear allergy. You know, just the idea of nuclear weapons in Japan is out of the question. You often hear, well, their constitution won't let them fight. And none of those things are actually true. But it's the received wisdom. It's what people think. And when you simply point out the realities of Japan, that ultimately, at the end of the day, it's a country just like every other. And that the stereotypes about it really aren't correct when it comes to defense security. In fact, they use that the Constitution won't let them have a military. You probably heard it. Yeah. That's the idea. And they don't even call it a military. But the fact is they've got a military, which, according to some ratings, is the fifth most powerful in the world. It depends on how you calculate it, of course. But they call it something else. And what is the actual distinction between offensive and defensive weapons? 00:04:35 JACK GAINES It's usually the strike space. If it's inside your own country defending, then it's a defense space. Once you go out and start taking out other people's cities and moving forces in. 00:04:44 GRANT NEWSHAM Well, for example, they don't have much what you call power projection capability very far off their borders. But they do have a submarine fleet, say over 20 submarines. There's no reason you couldn't send them to the coast of China and start sinking ships. 00:04:59 JACK GAINES True. 00:05:00 GRANT NEWSHAM They've got F -16s. You can put long -range missiles on them and you can fly out of ways and cause people a lot of trouble. But their military really, I would say, is not so good at offense. It's not so good at defense either. And that's something that comes as a surprise to a lot of people. 00:05:15 JACK GAINES Well, do they exercise defense and offense? 00:05:18 GRANT NEWSHAM Oh, they have exercises, training, and they put on a pretty good show, particularly when they have visitors come. But they really, until very recently, and even now, they can't do joint operations, which means the air, sea, and ground forces. can't operate together. In fact, they don't even have a radio with which they can communicate easily. They have to jury -rig some relations, these connections. And that's something most people don't understand, because you look at it on paper. Japan has 250 ,000 people in its military, and it's got ships, aircraft, all of it modern and good stuff. 150 ,000 people in its ground self -defense force, their army. But it's not even the sum of its whole. If you imagine each of your limbs, your arms and your legs, each doing whatever it wants without the coordinating function provided by a brain. 00:06:10 JACK GAINES Sounds like me dancing. 00:06:12 GRANT NEWSHAM It would be, yeah. I think that I can picture that, whereas I'm more of an Arthur Murray kind of guy. But it's like that. And nobody can believe that because they think, well, this is the Japanese. It's this advanced modern country, big military, the rich country. And I mean, they can't even do these simple things. Right. The short answer is no, except in some limited circumstances. After 60 years of the U .S.-Japan defense relationship, 80 years after World War II, they still cannot do some of the basic things that a military needs to do, or do them very well, put it that way. But they do train, they exercise, the personnel quality is excellent. You know, we tend to say, well, we've got Japan as our ally, Japan has a military. But the reality is that the U .S. and Japanese forces cannot work very well together. There's one exception, and that's the two navies. The U .S. Navy and the Japanese Navy, called the Maritime Self -Defense Force, they actually do work well. And they show what's doable. 00:07:15 JACK GAINES They probably do dynamic exercises as well as structured ones, so they have to change, have to practice new orders and maneuvers. 00:07:22 GRANT NEWSHAM Well, the nature of naval operations is you can go out... into the sea, and you have more freedom to actually do stuff. But part of it actually was when Admiral Arleigh Burke, who was later chief of naval operations for many years, he was in charge in Japan. He basically laid down the ground rules, which was that the American Navy was going to treat the Japanese like friends, like allies. And that set the tone for everything. So they had a more relationship of equals, people who wanted to operate together. And that is why they have a good relationship today. in my opinion. So as a result, after all these decades, the two militaries are not really very good at operating together. There's no joint headquarters. There never has been in Japan. At best, they've operated in isolation. Do they recognize they don't have a joint access? Oh, they know. The Japanese military knows this. And US Indo -PACOM has not pushed the issue. And then you had... The State Department side, on the civilian side, people saying, well, if we ask the Japanese to get better at defense matters, well, they'll get angry. And if they do, then the Chinese will be mad. So you have the U .S. on the U .S. side. We're thinking of at least 10 reasons why Japan cannot improve its defenses. That's changed enough in recent years. But you see how many decades we've lost. 00:08:51 JACK GAINES Right. I can see part of what the State Department is saying in that a lot of those countries along the Asian coast were under Japanese rule during World War II. They're concerned that by showing favor and coordinating with them in defense might offend places like the Philippines or Korea. It is a concern to be weighed, but I don't know how much weight you would put to it. 00:09:14 GRANT NEWSHAM I wouldn't give it hardly any. With the Japanese, when you actually think about it, I would say within... 30 years of the end of the war, but certainly today, and for the last at least 20 years ago. The new century. Even before that. The Japanese and World War II is not really an issue in almost all of Asia. The Chinese, of course... Play it up. That's a good way to put it. Of course, they do remember what the Japanese did, and it was barbaric. Although the Chinese Communist Party afterwards killed 50 million Chinese in peacetime and good weather, which the Imperial Japanese Army couldn't have dreamed of doing. But World War II is an issue in China. Korea as well, the relationship is dicey. Up to a point. I mean, little old ladies go and sit in front of the embassy still. 00:10:05 JACK GAINES the embassy still. 00:10:06 GRANT NEWSHAM There are, and then you just had a South Korean amphibious ship come to Yokosuka in Tokyo on a visit. In Korea, there's a fundamental sort of suspicion of the Japanese. Sometimes it is a real dislike. But most people, it's not a big issue. But except for those two countries, you go down the list in Asia, and there is no after effect of World War II. I find the Filipinos get along very well with the Japanese. The Indonesians do. They, in fact, see the Japanese as being the people who freed them from the colonial yoke. Okay. The Malays, they actually didn't have that bad a time during the occupation. The Chinese in Malaysia did. So the Malaysians don't have any really hard feelings against the Japanese. Taiwan, same thing. They've got a very good relationship. And then there's one plus billion Indians who actually have an excellent relationship with Japan and see Japan as real friends and vice versa. So you're starting to get a good chunk of Asia, which, as you can see, actually sees Japan as a good country, useful economically. It's been very generous. And they like to see a Japanese military that's strong enough, allied with the United States, able to deal with China. 00:11:27 JACK GAINES Right. And why would we have such a different balance as we do with Germany and Europe? Because no one's questioning this in Holland or in France. That's just another country. They freely trade, they freely access each other. So maybe mindset just needs to shift to say the reform of Japan is just like Germany, and we need to start treating them and partner nations the same and start advocating for a joint staff. 00:11:52 GRANT NEWSHAM And you could do that in an afternoon, but the Japanese will not speak up for themselves. And an old New York Times reporter, Richard Halloran, I remember him telling me once that all the people he ever dealt with in the world... The Japanese were the worst at explaining themselves. And there's a reticence which slows them down. But also the Americans are afraid to tell them what we need. And that is a huge problem, because if we don't tell them, the Japanese are not blind readers, and they won't do what we think we'd like them to do, but we're afraid to ask. And in fact, one of the Japanese prime ministers in 1970, so 50 -some years ago, He gave some very good advice to the Americans, and it was at the time the Americans were trying to put an aircraft carrier into Yokosuka, the naval base near Tokyo. They wanted to assign it there permanently. And the U .S. side was thinking of excuses why it was too hard for the Japanese. They'll cause political difficulties. The Japanese have an election coming up. The timing just isn't right. And finally, the Japanese side sent a message to the Americans saying, tell us what you need. And don't back down. And they said it out of exasperation, really. And it was the best advice the Americans have ever been given. And we've refused to follow it ever since then. And really, it's almost a cultural trait, sort of a Confucian system. They actually are happy to have experts tell them what they ought to do. Sure. Whereas we are more of the Socratic method. And it doesn't, it just doesn't work. That's why after all these years, the Americans and the Japanese forces, except for the navies, And except for missile defense, we really don't operate together anywhere near where we need to be. We're not even close. And another very interesting fact a lot of people don't know is the Japanese military missed its recruitment targets by about 50 % last year. 5 -0? 00:13:50 JACK GAINES -0? 00:13:50 GRANT NEWSHAM 5 -0. And it routinely misses them by 20 -25%. So this, you can see, is a problem. It's now an older force, doesn't have enough people. In order to fulfill its missions, it would probably have to be twice as big, both personnel -wise and in terms of ships and hardware. Its war stocks are basically non -existent, doesn't know anything really about casualty care, combat casualty replacements, logistics. 00:14:20 JACK GAINES Well, if the media looks down on it and the political class looks down on it, it's not going to get a lot of positivity in the public mindset. So that's got to be part of it. It's not a vote -getter to push for a strong defense. 00:14:31 GRANT NEWSHAM vote -getter to push for a strong defense. I mean, if you're a politician, no one's going to say, he's the defense guy, let's give him our vote. But people vote for other reasons. But you do get used to, after that horrific experience in World War II, that for decades people didn't want to really think about defense, and they were glad to have the Americans around to handle it, and particularly when it seemed like there wasn't any real threat anywhere. People were happy with that, and even the U .S. side. didn't mind it as well. But I'd say it should have started to change at least 20 years ago. And it didn't until maybe four or five years ago. Well, 00:15:10 JACK GAINES when did the risk indicators really start popping up with China? 00:15:14 GRANT NEWSHAM I think by... It can't be back when Nixon went. 00:15:15 JACK GAINES It can't be back when Nixon went. Well, it should have, 00:15:16 GRANT NEWSHAM it should have, you know, I think. But about 2005 is when it was obvious what was coming. 00:15:19 JACK GAINES But about 00:15:21 GRANT NEWSHAM when it was obvious what was coming. And even before that, if you knew what to look for. But as I said, some of us... We knew what needed done and what the problems were. And there were Japanese who did too. And that's why when we put together their amphibious force, it was sort of an effort to address the shortcomings in Japan's self -defense force. Also to improve the overall U .S.-Japan relationship because it was so imbalanced. Right. Where the Japanese weren't doing anything near enough to defend themselves. And that over time creates a lot of friction in a relationship. So we were trying to address that with the amphibious force, and that was 2011, which we were pretty successful at that because we didn't ask permission from anybody. I was going to say, if you were successful, 00:16:10 JACK GAINES did you get fired? 00:16:11 GRANT NEWSHAM Well, it's not that people didn't try. 00:16:11 JACK GAINES Well, it's not that people didn't try. Sorry, that was sarcastic. But I was a reservist, so they couldn't quite get a bead on me. 00:16:15 GRANT NEWSHAM I was a reservist, so they couldn't quite get a bead on me. Yeah. And didn't quite know what we were doing. And also you had people like General Gregson, who was then at... Department of Defense, who had been in Japan many years, and he knew the importance of it all. So he would provide some cover. But the real success there was because the Japanese side took the ideas and ran with it. And the Americans provided some cover and some know -how and some advice. But it was the Japanese who did that. Once the Japanese took on the mission, well, what are the Americans going to say? But I was even told that at Indo -PACOM, that there were people who gotten wind of this and were very much opposed because the idea that Japanese having an amphibious force was provocative. Not just provocative, but it was going to cause the Japanese to go on the rampage again, like in 1941. I'm not making this up. 00:17:11 JACK GAINES So when Germany starts building the Leopard 2, were they expected to go on a rampage too? 00:17:17 GRANT NEWSHAM No, those are Europeans. Oh, okay. You know how the Europeans are okay. 00:17:19 JACK GAINES okay. You know 00:17:21 GRANT NEWSHAM But the fact that Germans have been allowed back into polite society. tells you something, and the Japanese are just as deserving of it as well. 00:17:30 JACK GAINES Did you see the movie Godzilla Minus One? No. It's an interesting portrayal of post -World War II Japan. And Godzilla, which is this giant monster, comes out of the sea, tears up Japan, and has an atomic breath that shoots off nuclear explosions, which sounds a lot like the United States in a mythological way. One thing that... the show did that was interesting is it kind of engaged post -military era and had talked about it. And it seemed like it was trying to reconcile the past with now and build out a notion that the military is okay, that after the war, there were good things that happened and that we should embrace a military in the future. So there might be some societal impulses out there that are promoting and supporting a more built -up military in Japan. 00:18:24 GRANT NEWSHAM Well, you're actually right. The public at large has always been pretty supportive of the military. For example, when they have open base days, when they put on so -called firepower demonstrations, which is like an exercise you can watch where they shoot off stuff, that they're always oversubscribed. And people just pour into these things because they're interested. And the central government, or say the ruling class, are the ones who are gun -shy or... I'm really hesitant, but the public at large, you know, when you ask them, you know, should Japan have a normal military? The replies to that are like 85%. Well, yes, of course. And I think they would be horrified if they knew the actual state of the Japanese military. I mentioned this to a Japanese politician last year, and he was horrified at the idea. And the public as well would have a similar reaction. Regular Japanese people say they have a pretty good understanding of what Japan needs to do to defend itself and of the importance of having a national defense, but the government doesn't explain it very well. When they do, the reaction, there's a Japanese expression, it's called like, it's atarimae. And it means like, well, yeah. It's like, duh. 00:19:42 JACK GAINES Abnautually. And that's what it means. 00:19:42 GRANT NEWSHAM And that's what it means. Should Japan have a good defense? Atarimae. And yeah, what's the question here? But if you ask that question in the political world, then you'll get all sorts of emming and hawing. They wanted nothing of that. By the late 70s, certainly by the 90s, that they sort of outlived that. But it was comfortable to continue with it, particularly if you're the government, because you don't have to spend money on defense. And the Americans are covering that. So it was as if the Americans were giving. I'd say at least $50 billion a year in free defense coverage, at least, probably more. And, you know, if you're a government, you think, well, why should we do anything different? And so they got used to that. We got used to it. And then at some point, the friction builds up where you just can't do that. And the Japanese themselves start to be resentful. 00:20:37 JACK GAINES Right. Keeping them handicapped, probably. 00:20:40 GRANT NEWSHAM Yeah. You know, they're not letting us be self -fulfilled. I think that's sort of the marriage counselor's analysis. And so that imbalance was such that it was creating huge problems in the relationship. But the defense relationship, you know, pointing out, well, you know, you guys really aren't very good, except for the Navy. You know, and we can't work with you very well, except for the Navies. And as a result, that's why we are where we are today. By now, if we had a more sort of capable U .S.-Japan defense relationship, where the two services could... operate together, and we're conducting a joint defense of Japan and the surrounding areas, which includes, say, to Taiwan even, that that would have, I think, deterred a lot of the problems that we're having. But by pretending everything was okay, we've gotten ourselves in a position where we now face a real threat out there. And we're trying to make up for lost time. And I don't know. And I don't know which side I would bet on. I'd bet on ours because I'm an American. But that's how out of whack it has gotten. It used to be maybe till 20 years ago, we were in pretty good shape. But you can see that advantage eroding. And nowadays, depending on how a fight were to take place, if it does take place, it would be less of a sure thing than it once was. And that's, I think, putting it very nicely. 00:22:04 JACK GAINES Well, tell me about the threat. 00:22:05 GRANT NEWSHAM What are you seeing? It's China. led by the Chinese Communist Party. (Part II) 00:00:02 JACK GAINES Welcome to the 1CA Podcast. This is your host, Jack Gaines. 1CA is a product of the Civil Affairs Association and brings in people who are current or former military, diplomats, development officers, and field agents to discuss their experiences on ground with the partner nation's people and leadership. Our goal is to inspire anyone interested in working the last three feet of foreign relations. To contact the show, email us at capodcasting@gmail.com. or look us up on the Civil Affairs Association website at www.civilaffairsassoc.org. I'll have those in the show notes. Please welcome back Grant Newsham, retired Marine colonel and author of When China Attacks, A Warning to America. Grant came on the show to discuss the state of the Japanese defense forces and the PRC threat. This is the second in a two-part episode, so let's get started. 00:00:56 SPEAKER_02 It's China. led by the Chinese Communist Party. They built up a military which is just gradually but steadily expanding its reach and its coverage. And it is compared to, say, 2020, now instead of just being able to operate a little bit off their coast, they can reach Guam, Hawaii, and onwards. The Chinese military doesn't tend to develop into a force able to operate worldwide just like the U .S. can. And their ship numbers. They've got more than we do. Something like 350 versus our 290. 00:00:58 JACK GAINES the Chinese Communist Party. 00:01:06 JACK GAINES its reach 00:01:11 JACK GAINES say, 2020, now instead of just being able to operate a little bit 00:01:15 GRANT NEWSHAM off their coast, they can reach Guam, Hawaii, and onwards. The Chinese military doesn't tend to develop into a force able to operate worldwide just 00:01:25 JACK GAINES like the U .S. can. And their ship numbers. They've got more than we do. Something like 350 versus our 00:01:37 SPEAKER_02 Well, fortunately, in terms of quality, they're pretty good. And they know what they need to do, and they're getting better. For some things like carrier operations, they're not at our level yet. But if you look at the speed at which they have developed, they're in pretty good shape. But let's just say the South China Sea, which is one and a half times the size of the Mediterranean. Whenever U .S. ships go in there, and we do publicize our transits and operations and exercises, for every ship we put in there, For every ship we put in, the Chinese can match it with at least 10. And that doesn't include ground -based and air -launched anti -ship missiles, for example. So if the Chinese pick their spot, 00:01:39 JACK GAINES they're pretty good. And they know what they need to do, and they're getting better. For some things like carrier operations, they're not at our level yet. But if you look at the speed at which they have developed, they're in pretty good shape. But let's just say the South China Sea, which is one and a half times the size of the Mediterranean. 00:02:00 JACK GAINES and we do publicize our transits and operations and exercises, for every ship we put in there, For every ship we put in, the Chinese can match it with at least 10. And that doesn't include ground -based and air -launched anti -ship missiles, for example. 00:02:16 SPEAKER_02 if the Chinese pick their spot, pick their timing, I wouldn't want to be the destroyer skipper who's got 20 anti -ship missiles coming at him. 20 anti -ship missiles coming at him. And he's got eight seconds to figure out what to do. The point is they have had de facto control of the South China Sea since about seven, eight years ago. And yes, we can go in there. But once we're gone, the Chinese close back up and they've pretty much got it. Beyond that, it's harder for them, but they're steadily expanding their capability to conduct operations. It's a military that has its problems, like every military, but they are trying to correct them. They are building a military which they want to be able to defeat a country that has aircraft carriers, which is us. In many respects, they are our equals. Have you ever heard a Korean War veteran who said he wanted to fight the Chinese again? And these were Chinese. These was the Chinese of 1950s. It's a very different place today. And I'm not saying that they can't be defeated, but I'm not saying that they can't be defeated. An adversary that could give us a lot of trouble. When their intentions are to first dominate regionally and locally, and then push that farther afield to all the Pacific and beyond. And they're setting up the infrastructure worldwide with ports and airfields to do that. They're investing in long -range transports, these naval replenishment ships that you need to be able to operate the way we do, and that's their mission. And we have pretended until about 2017 that this wasn't the case. In fact, you couldn't even say China was an adversary. And guys who did, like Captain James Fennell, who was the head of intelligence at Pack Fleet. He was cashier. He was forced to retire. He was cashier. He was forced to retire. The then administration hated him and got rid of him. And that's how bad it was. And I saw this all firsthand. Experience some of it, not as bad as Captain Fennell did. So we've allowed them to build up into a military that we had better take very seriously. And the Chinese do see this as a tool for their... 00:02:16 JACK GAINES if the 00:02:17 SPEAKER_03 Chinese pick their spot, pick their timing, I wouldn't want to be the destroyer skipper who's got 20 anti -ship missiles coming at him. 20 anti -ship missiles coming at him. 00:02:28 JACK GAINES figure out what to do. The point is they have had de facto control of the South China Sea since about seven, eight years ago. 00:02:39 JACK GAINES we're gone, the Chinese close back up and they've pretty much got it. Beyond that, it's 00:02:45 SPEAKER_03 but they're steadily expanding their capability to conduct operations. It's a military that has its problems, like every military, but they are trying to correct them. They are 00:02:55 JACK GAINES a military which they want to be able to defeat a country that has aircraft carriers, which is us. In many respects, 00:03:03 JACK GAINES our equals. Have you ever heard a Korean War veteran who said he wanted to fight the Chinese again? And these were Chinese. These was the Chinese of 1950s. It's a very different place today. And I'm not saying that they can't be defeated, but I'm not saying that they can't 00:03:22 JACK GAINES a lot of trouble. When their intentions are to first dominate regionally and locally, and then push that farther afield to all the Pacific and beyond. And they're setting up the infrastructure worldwide with ports and airfields to do that. They're investing in long -range transports, these naval replenishment ships that you need to be able to operate the way we do, and that's their mission. And we have pretended 00:03:50 SPEAKER_03 until about 2017 00:03:51 GRANT NEWSHAM that this wasn't the case. In fact, you couldn't even say China was an adversary. And guys who did, like Captain James Fennell, 00:04:01 JACK GAINES who was the head of intelligence at Pack Fleet. He was cashier. He was forced to retire. He was cashier. He was forced to retire. The then administration hated him and got rid of him. And that's how bad it was. And I saw this all firsthand. Experience some of it, not as bad as Captain Fennell did. So we've allowed them to build up into a military that we had better take very seriously. And the Chinese do see this as a tool for 00:04:30 SPEAKER_02 The idea is if you have a powerful military, well, that's when you can lean on people. That's when you can intimidate people. You can dominate them. And they're happy with the psychological domination, political domination. It doesn't have to be occupying, but dominating. And they're in every field, from outer space, long -range missiles, undersea warfare, really putting a lot of effort into it. And there is a certain sort of ingenuity that goes into their operations. Well, they can't invent things. They don't develop things on their own. They just steal things. So they reverse engineer things. So they reverse engineer. 00:04:32 SPEAKER_03 well, that's when you can lean on people. That's when 00:04:39 JACK GAINES And they're happy with the psychological domination, political domination. It doesn't have to be occupying, but dominating. And they're in every field, from outer space, long -range missiles, undersea warfare, really putting a lot of effort into it. And there is a certain sort of ingenuity that goes into their operations. Well, they can't invent things. They don't develop things on their own. They just steal things. So they reverse engineer things. 00:05:09 SPEAKER_02 Well, it... You know, it's kind of true up to a point, but look at us. The Yankee ingenuity was taking stolen British technology and making it better. And so the fact they may not be as innovative as us, well, sometimes it just has to be good enough. So they've got now a military to combine with this desire for political domination as well as considering their economic power as just as important as the military. And you see how successful that has been. When you have U .S. business leaders giving Xi Jinping two standing ovations last November in San Francisco, that tells you how successful they've been on the economic front. And the Japanese know they have a huge problem. You would often hear the Japanese military saying, one thing Taiwan's defense is Japan's defense. But I've even seen the calculations they did, like at which point the Japanese Navy would be outmatched by the Chinese Navy. And they had the date almost down to when it was. And our side, we were late recognizing this. We refused to. We refused to. 00:05:11 GRANT NEWSHAM kind of true up to a point, but look at us. The Yankee ingenuity was taking stolen British technology and making it better. And so the fact 00:05:20 SPEAKER_03 be as innovative as us, well, sometimes it just 00:05:23 JACK GAINES has to be good enough. So they've got now a military to combine with this desire for political domination as well as considering their economic power as just as important as the military. And you see how successful that has been. When you have U .S. business leaders giving Xi Jinping two standing 00:05:45 JACK GAINES San Francisco, that tells you how successful they've been on the economic front. And the Japanese know they have a huge problem. You 00:05:53 SPEAKER_03 would often hear the Japanese military saying, one thing Taiwan's defense is Japan's defense. But I've even seen the calculations they did, like at which 00:06:03 JACK GAINES point the 00:06:06 JACK GAINES be outmatched by the Chinese Navy. And they had the date almost down to when it was. And our side, we were late recognizing this. We refused 00:07:18 SPEAKER_02 Yeah, as he described it well. Ultimately, the military part of the fight is extremely important. But it's almost a sideshow. But it's almost a sideshow to the other activities, the other fight that China's been waging for the last 30, 40 years, almost ever since we opened up to them. And that has been generally referred to as political warfare, with components being economic warfare, financial warfare, drug warfare, which is the word the Chinese use. So all this fentanyl that's been pumped into America for the last decade that's killed up towards a million Americans, almost all of it comes from China. And they know exactly what they're doing. And so every year they're taking like the equivalent of two or three divisions off the battlefield. You've destroyed neighborhoods. You've destroyed successful economic warfare. Drive 30 miles up the road to Baltimore. Go to Sparrows, Baltimore. Where there used to be steel mills. And now you have Amazon fulfillment sectors at best. But you've seen just the gutting of American society, the so -called working class, the Rust Belt. And this was done intentionally. And this was done intentionally. In large part, Chinese economic warfare directed at the United States. And then you have cyber warfare as well. You have cyber espionage. Well beyond what countries normally do. But they have used it very effectively. And the Chinese just... Recently put out their new fighter. That's called the J -35. That is a dig at the Americans. Because it is based on stolen blueprints for the F -35. I don't know. 00:07:20 SPEAKER_03 Ultimately, the military part of the 00:07:26 SPEAKER_03 it's almost a sideshow. 00:07:29 JACK GAINES sideshow to the other activities, the other fight that China's been waging for the last 30, 40 years, almost ever since we opened up to them. And that has been generally referred to as political warfare, with components being economic warfare, financial warfare, drug warfare, which is the word the Chinese use. So all this fentanyl that's been pumped into America for the last decade that's killed up towards a million Americans, almost all of it comes from China. And they know exactly what they're doing. And so every year they're taking like the equivalent of two or three divisions off the battlefield. You've destroyed neighborhoods. You've destroyed successful economic warfare. Drive 30 miles up the road to Baltimore. Go to Sparrows, Baltimore. Where there used to be steel mills. And now you have Amazon fulfillment sectors at best. But you've seen just the gutting of American society, the so -called working class, the Rust Belt. And this was done intentionally. 00:08:26 JACK GAINES warfare directed at the United States. And then you have cyber warfare as well. You have cyber espionage. 00:08:34 SPEAKER_03 Well beyond what countries normally do. But they have used it very effectively. And the Chinese just... Recently put out their new fighter. That's called the J -35. That is a dig at 00:08:47 GRANT NEWSHAM it is based on stolen blueprints for the F -35. 00:08:55 GRANT NEWSHAM know. It's been a while. I don't know. It's been a while. 00:09:02 SPEAKER_02 Unfortunately, Copperfish is leapfrogging over stages. Yes, it may take them a little longer, but they will popscotch through it. And so... So I take it pretty seriously. Their Y -20, their long -range transport, is basically the C -17. And they've just been immensely successful at this sort of espionage. And at the same time, we've done nothing to push back on them. Then there's the propaganda angle of this, which really good old Jesuit meaning of the word just means to explain yourself or articulate your position. So people understand that they've been very successful in getting Americans to buy the Chinese line. China's rise is peaceful. China's rise is peaceful. China's never attacked anybody. China's never attacked anybody. It's not true. All great nations do this. So who are we to complain? America has its problems, too. America has its problems, too. Who are we to complain about the Chinese taking live organs out of Uyghurs and prisoners of conscience? And we've been able to convince ourselves that we've been able to convince ourselves that we've not only can we not do anything, we shouldn't do anything. This is changing. But you can see we were very late getting started. And this has all been done without firing a shot. Chinese economic inroads, Chinese economic inroads, which leads to political influence, is in, for example, South America and Africa. Just immense how fast that has come, how solid it is. Pacific Island, something similar is going on, something similar is going on. Look at the difficulties the Germans have had, weaning themselves off of this Chinese addiction. And as a result, 00:09:03 GRANT NEWSHAM is leapfrogging over stages. Yes, it may take them 00:09:07 SPEAKER_03 but they will 00:09:09 GRANT NEWSHAM popscotch through it. And so... So I take it pretty seriously. Their Y -20, 00:09:16 JACK GAINES their long -range transport, is basically the C -17. And they've just been immensely successful at this sort of espionage. And at the same time, we've done nothing to push back on them. Then there's the propaganda angle of this, which really good old Jesuit meaning of the word just means to explain yourself or articulate your position. So people understand that they've been very successful in getting Americans to buy the Chinese line. China's rise is peaceful. China's rise is peaceful. China's never attacked anybody. China's never attacked anybody. It's not true. All great nations do this. So who are we to complain? 00:09:49 SPEAKER_03 America has its problems, too. America has its problems, too. Who are we to complain about the Chinese taking live organs out of Uyghurs and prisoners of conscience? And we've been able to 00:10:00 JACK GAINES that we've been able 00:10:00 SPEAKER_03 to convince ourselves that we've not only can we not do anything, we shouldn't do anything. This is changing. But you can see we were very late getting started. And this has all been done without firing a shot. 00:10:10 JACK GAINES Chinese economic inroads, Chinese economic inroads, which leads to political influence, is in, for example, South America and Africa. Just immense how fast that has come, how solid it is. Pacific Island, something similar is going on, something similar is going on. 00:10:27 SPEAKER_03 Look at the difficulties the Germans have had, weaning themselves off of this Chinese addiction. 00:10:34 SPEAKER_02 as a result, they have been able to improve their position politically, psychologically, economically, and they've been able to do this globally without having to use their military. 00:10:36 SPEAKER_03 their position 00:10:40 GRANT NEWSHAM and they've been able to do this globally without having to use their military. 00:10:51 SPEAKER_02 Yeah, that's the idea. Is you don't want to. So our view of warfare is like a hundred -yard dash. Wherever the two sides come to the line, shake loose, and then someone fires a gun, and then someone fires a gun, and then it's game on. To the Chinese, the war has started long ago. And you're wearing down your opponent. You're weakening his ability to resist. You're creating chaos in his own country. There's a word called entropy. Which is just breaking down. Entropic warfare is a word that sometimes gets used. For you're breaking down his ability to resist. And at the same time, of course, the Chinese are building up a military, which is very serious. Yes, it's not showing up off of San Diego just yet. But places closer to China, it's much more of an issue. Japan knows the problem they have with the People's Liberation Army. Pacific Island, Southeast Asia. You are seeing more of a Chinese presence. And the point is, when the time comes, you may not even be able to resist if the Chinese have done this other sort of warfare. 00:10:53 JACK GAINES want to. So our view of warfare is like a hundred -yard dash. Wherever the two sides come to the line, shake loose, and then someone fires a gun, and then someone fires a gun, and then it's game on. To the Chinese, the war has started long ago. And you're wearing down your opponent. You're weakening his ability to resist. You're creating chaos in his own country. There's a word called entropy. Which is just breaking down. Entropic warfare is a word that 00:11:19 SPEAKER_03 sometimes gets used. For you're breaking down his ability to resist. And at the same time, of course, the Chinese are building up a military, which is very serious. 00:11:28 JACK GAINES Yes, it's not showing 00:11:33 JACK GAINES places closer to China, it's much more of an issue. Japan knows the problem they have with the People's Liberation Army. Pacific Island, Southeast Asia. You are seeing more 00:11:46 JACK GAINES Chinese presence. And the point is, when the time comes, you may not even be able to resist if the Chinese have 00:11:52 SPEAKER_03 this other 00:12:31 SPEAKER_02 That's exactly what it is. It's mental warfare. You're attacking the mind. You're attacking how people think about things. Some people use the word cognitive warfare. You're the popular word. Yeah, you're attacking the mind. And so you can see how well it worked. And the Russians had a much poorer hand to play than the Chinese do. Because we do so much business with China. And you see how hard it is to do things like ban TikTok. We can't even get that done. 00:12:33 JACK GAINES mental warfare. You're attacking the mind. You're attacking how people think about things. Some people use the 00:12:42 JACK GAINES You're the popular word. Yeah, you're attacking the mind. And so you can see how well it worked. And the Russians had a much poorer hand to play than 00:12:50 GRANT NEWSHAM the Chinese do. Because we do so much business with China. And you see how hard it is to do things like ban TikTok. We can't even get that done. 00:12:59 SPEAKER_02 We can't even get that done. 00:13:03 SPEAKER_02 Look, 72 hours, if that for the Indians do, we can do it. And you see how Chinese successfully use what they call lawfare, which is using our own legal system. And the idea is that you get proxies, influential foreigners in your target country to actually do your bidding for you. The Chinese have like five aces to play. The Russians might have won, but you can see how successful the Russians have been just with that. 00:13:04 JACK GAINES for the Indians do, we can do it. And you see how Chinese successfully use what they call lawfare, which 00:13:13 JACK GAINES the idea is that you get proxies, influential foreigners in your target country to actually do your bidding for you. The Chinese have like five aces to play. The Russians might have won, but you can see how successful the Russians have 00:13:41 SPEAKER_02 Uh -huh. Uh -huh. 00:13:46 SPEAKER_02 Well, you're right about the Russians, but the Chinese understand that the term gray zone paralyzes Americans. We have no idea what to do because of our view of warfare being until the shooting starts. That it is we're not really at war. There's still hope of working something out. 00:13:51 GRANT NEWSHAM paralyzes Americans. We have no idea what to do because of our view of warfare being until the shooting starts. That it is we're not really at war. There's still hope of working 00:14:03 SPEAKER_03 something out. 00:14:05 SPEAKER_02 That has been our rote response for all these years, is to not get the Chinese mad, don't provoke them, and we have convinced ourselves that we have to have Chinese help with fill -in -the -blank, North Korea transnational crime, nuclear weapons proliferation, climate change, and therefore we cannot challenge the PRC because we won't get their cooperation. That's what we've effectively handcuffed ourselves, but when it comes to that so -called hybrid warfare, it's not all that It's not all that complicated if you recognize what it is and how it fits into China's behavior, its strategy. But you also would do well to attract from other directions where they're particularly vulnerable. And that is where you take advantage of the fact, for example, the Chinese currency is not freely convertible, which means that outside of China, nobody really wants Chinese money. It's like the script at a... It's like the script where you can use it to buy caramel corn and go on the rides. 00:14:05 SPEAKER_03 has been our rote response for all these years, is to not get the Chinese mad, don't provoke them, and we have convinced ourselves that 00:14:14 JACK GAINES have Chinese help with fill -in -the -blank, North Korea transnational crime, nuclear weapons 00:14:22 JACK GAINES climate change, and therefore we cannot challenge the PRC because we won't get their cooperation. That's what we've effectively handcuffed ourselves, but when it comes to that so -called hybrid warfare, it's not all that It's not all that complicated if you recognize what it is and how it fits into 00:14:42 JACK GAINES its strategy. But you also would do well to attract from other directions where they're particularly vulnerable. And that is where you take advantage of the fact, for example, the Chinese currency is not freely convertible, which means that outside of China, nobody really wants Chinese money. It's like the script at a... It's like the script where you can use it to buy caramel corn and 00:15:06 SPEAKER_02 That's it. Nobody wants it. So choke that off and China's got some real problems. Another is the just thoroughgoing corruption of China's ruling class. And most of them have wealth overseas, foreign bank accounts. foreign bank accounts, relatives with green cards, relatives with green cards, some operate businesses overseas. And this is illegal. And this is illegal. 00:15:08 JACK GAINES it. So choke that off and China's got some real problems. Another is the just thoroughgoing corruption of China's ruling class. And most 00:15:19 GRANT NEWSHAM overseas, foreign bank accounts. foreign bank accounts, relatives with green cards, relatives with green cards, some operate businesses overseas. And this 00:15:31 SPEAKER_02 And this is where that really scares them. Because in 2011 or 2012, New York Times and Bloomberg actually put out some good stories about the overseas wealth of China's top people, including Xi Jinping's family. I've never seen a reaction from the Chinese like that one. This bothered them. 00:15:33 JACK GAINES scares them. Because in 2011 or 2012, New 00:15:37 SPEAKER_03 York Times and Bloomberg actually put out some good stories about the overseas wealth of China's top people, including Xi Jinping's family. 00:15:46 GRANT NEWSHAM I've never seen a reaction from the Chinese like that one. 00:15:53 SPEAKER_02 More than anything else we've ever done. That's... 00:15:53 GRANT NEWSHAM than anything 00:16:14 SPEAKER_02 One way to do it. Another way to do it. That would be a tactical thing. Say you were to release, say, every Friday. Say at 1 a .m. 1 o 'clock or whenever. 1 a .m. 1 o 'clock or whenever. 00:16:16 JACK GAINES way to do it. That would be a tactical thing. Say you were to 00:16:19 SPEAKER_03 release, say, every Friday. Say at 1 a .m. 1 o 'clock or whenever. 1 a .m. 1 o 'clock or whenever. 00:16:25 SPEAKER_02 Which of the top 50 Chinese Communist Party officials? And make sure it reached everywhere in China. The thing that the public really hates is this corruption. And by the top dogs. And that is something that really bothers them. And you note that the Chinese leadership is very willing to have the average Chinese citizen absorb any amount of punishment. And they even talk about it. 00:16:27 SPEAKER_03 Chinese Communist Party officials? And make sure it 00:16:29 GRANT NEWSHAM reached everywhere in China. The thing that the public really hates is this corruption. And by the top dogs. 00:16:38 JACK GAINES is something that really bothers them. And you note that the Chinese leadership is very willing to have the average Chinese citizen 00:16:49 JACK GAINES they even talk about it. 00:16:51 SPEAKER_02 But when it's personal, then they see it very differently. And this is one of the few ways to really make it personal for them is to capitalize on this corruption. So when we talk about... Dealing with Gray's own operations, we're probably not going to be all that successful. Because they have more ships, they can be in more places. 00:16:51 JACK GAINES when it's personal, then they see it very differently. And this is one of the few ways to really make it personal for them is to capitalize on this corruption. So when we talk about... Dealing with Gray's own operations, we're probably not going to be all that successful. Because they have more ships, they can be in more places. 00:17:14 SPEAKER_02 But expose that. They can do that. Have we made a concerted effort to expose Chinese bribery, the illicit payments, the corruption that they put into everywhere they go? Everywhere there's a Chinese presence, you have corruption of the society, the political class as well. And do we ever target that? Do we consider it a priority effort? I don't even think we consider it an effort at all. Exposure is the one thing that has a huge effect. This is why investigative journalists get big. It's why like Irish. gangsters try to murder them in Malta they get blown up because they're effective because they're effective which is the thing that makes it very hard for corruption to work and that's where I think 00:17:15 JACK GAINES can do that. Have we made a concerted effort to expose Chinese bribery, the illicit payments, the corruption that they put into everywhere they go? Everywhere there's a Chinese presence, you have corruption of the society, the political class as well. And do we ever target that? Do we consider it a priority effort? I don't even think we consider it an effort at all. Exposure is the one thing that has a huge effect. This is why investigative journalists 00:17:44 SPEAKER_03 get big. It's why like Irish. gangsters try to murder them in Malta they get blown up because they're effective because they're effective which 00:17:52 SPEAKER_02 is the thing that makes it very hard for corruption to work and that's where I think We have some real opportunities to make it very clear what's being done. And this is something that, if you expose it, you can really capitalize on it. Just make it too hard to do this. And it also gives oxygen to the honest people in a country. It gives them something to work with. It gives them something to work with. To take on these repressive regimes, these corrupt regimes, these corrupt regimes, administrations. And get rid of them and replace them with honest people. I've never met anywhere, anywhere I've been. Over the years. Where people like to be cheaters. Where people like to be cheaters. Where they like their leaders to be corrupt. I just haven't met it. I've been anywhere. I just haven't met it. I've been anywhere. It's just nothing you can do. But it's just nothing you can do. It really has an effect. And that's where I think government for sources could be effectively devoted. And particularly once you get local reporters in on it. Once you get the local. Honest locals in on it. Honest locals in on it. And that's where I think we could be very effective. Corruption, as you've mentioned, that really is the grease to everything the Chinese communists do globally. Take it away and then take away their access to dollars, convertible currency. And they've really got some problems. But they have played their hand very well today. But in some ways it's a house of cards. I don't think it's that hard to take on. But the longer you wait, the harder it gets. 00:17:52 SPEAKER_03 is the thing that makes it 00:17:54 JACK GAINES corruption to work and that's where I think We have some real opportunities to make it very clear what's being done. And this is something that, if you expose it, you can really capitalize on it. Just make it too hard to do this. And it also gives oxygen to the honest people in a country. It 00:18:16 JACK GAINES to work with. To take on these repressive regimes, these corrupt regimes, these corrupt regimes, 00:18:23 JACK GAINES them with honest people. I've never met anywhere, anywhere I've been. Over the years. Where 00:18:32 JACK GAINES I just haven't met it. I've been anywhere. I just haven't met it. I've been anywhere. It's just nothing you can do. But it's just nothing you can do. It really has an effect. And that's where I think government for sources could be effectively devoted. And particularly once you 00:18:46 GRANT NEWSHAM reporters in on it. Once you get the local. Honest locals in on it. Honest locals in on it. And that's where I think we could be very effective. 00:18:56 JACK GAINES Corruption, as you've mentioned, that really is the grease to everything the Chinese communists do globally. Take it away and then take away their access to dollars, convertible currency. And they've really got some 00:19:12 JACK GAINES today. But in some ways it's a house of cards. I don't think it's that hard to take on. But the longer you wait, the harder it 00:19:28 SPEAKER_02 In regards to U .S. policy, in policy, there really is a... a desire that the United States stays around in Asia, that maintains its military might, and is able to effectively safeguard what you call freedom consensual government. Because if you go around the region, nobody wants to be dominated by the PRC. But they do have a huge advantage, particularly economically, that they're seen by leaders and business people in a lot of these countries. That's really the source of... some wealth, some prosperity. And we would do well, for example, to see the fight as just as much an economic one as a military one. Because we could build up our military, rebuild it, and we could have 800 ships in the Navy, and still lose. If we don't fight on these other fronts, we don't want you here because we're doing too much business with China. And that's where the U .S., along with its friends, the Japanese, the Koreans, the Indians, the Australians, we would do well to operate together more and to see the economic front and the political warfare fronts as a priority effort as much, if not more, than the military. 00:19:30 SPEAKER_03 in policy, there 00:19:31 JACK GAINES really is a... a desire that the United States stays around in Asia, that maintains its military might, and is able to 00:19:45 JACK GAINES Because if you go around the region, nobody wants to be dominated by the PRC. But they do have a huge advantage, particularly economically, that they're seen by leaders and business people in a lot of these countries. That's really the source of... some wealth, some prosperity. And we would do well, for example, to see the fight as just as much an economic 00:20:09 GRANT NEWSHAM one as a military one. Because we could build up our military, rebuild it, and we could have 800 ships in the Navy, and still lose. If we don't 00:20:19 JACK GAINES on these other fronts, we don't want you here because we're doing too much business with China. And that's where the U .S., along with its friends, the Japanese, the Koreans, the Indians, the Australians, 00:20:30 GRANT NEWSHAM we would do well to operate together more and to see the economic front and the political warfare fronts as a priority effort as much, if not 00:20:40 JACK GAINES more, than the 00:20:45 SPEAKER_02 They have a role to play if they're properly harnessed. But you do know that these days you don't see the Yankee trader that used to exist. You'd run to Americans everywhere trying to sell something to do business. Not so much these days. And we've almost ceded the far -flung part to the world. Because, well, the return on investment isn't enough. That's not an attractive enough proposition. Well, then let's make it one. Plus, you do have, say, the Japanese, the Indians, who are much better at operating in these places, to put it together into a coherent plan. Understand what it is, political warfare, and not just block the Chinese political warfare effort, but actually have our own campaign. And it really is worth doing some homework, I think, for a lot of people into what political warfare is. One sees the opportunities, but it takes a certain type of person who's good at it. versus a civil affairs guy. Versus a civil affairs guy. He's going to see different... He's going to see parts of the battlefield in a different way. Yes, sometimes you want the tank. But then there's this other part of it all. That is almost like a liberal arts test. Here you have to figure out the motivations for things. You have to figure out how a society works. And then how do you appeal to it using the things that are parts of political warfare? And this is where you can really make some mileage. You've got to have both. Make no mistake. If you're not able to destroy things and kill people, the civil affairs part isn't going to get you very far. But combine the two, and then you've really got something that's very hard to take on if you're the bad guys. We talk about defending Taiwan, and how important it is, and it is, I think, indispensable, that China does not take Taiwan and enslave 23 million people. If they did that... 00:20:47 JACK GAINES they're properly harnessed. But you do know that these days you don't see the Yankee trader that used to exist. You'd run to Americans everywhere trying to sell something to do business. Not 00:20:59 SPEAKER_03 so much these days. And we've almost ceded the far -flung part to the world. Because, well, the return on investment isn't enough. That's not an attractive enough proposition. Well, then let's 00:21:10 GRANT NEWSHAM make it one. Plus, you do have, say, the Japanese, the Indians, who are much better at operating in these places, to put it together into a coherent plan. Understand what it 00:21:20 JACK GAINES is, political warfare, and not just block the Chinese political warfare effort, but actually have our own campaign. And it really is worth doing some homework, I think, for a lot of people into what political warfare is. One sees the opportunities, but it takes a certain type of person who's good at it. versus a civil affairs guy. Versus a civil affairs guy. He's going to see different... He's going to see parts of the battlefield in a different way. 00:21:50 SPEAKER_03 Yes, sometimes you want the tank. But then there's this other part of it all. That is almost like a liberal arts test. Here you have to figure 00:22:00 JACK GAINES for things. You have to figure out how a society works. And then how do you appeal to it using the things that are parts of political warfare? 00:22:10 JACK GAINES make some mileage. You've got to have both. Make no mistake. If you're not able to destroy things and kill people, the civil affairs part isn't going to get you very far. But combine the two, and then you've really got something that's very hard to take on if you're the bad guys. We talk about defending Taiwan, and how important it is, and it is, I think, indispensable, 00:22:32 GRANT NEWSHAM that China does not take Taiwan and enslave 23 million people. If they did that... 00:22:39 SPEAKER_02 Asia would turn red overnight, as every country tried to cut the best deal they could. No country anywhere on Earth would have much confidence in American promises that will protect them. But one of the ways to actually defend Taiwan is, yes, they could maybe use F -35s and long -range missiles and smart pines, etc. You do have to have all of this stuff. Is it enough, 00:22:39 GRANT NEWSHAM would turn red overnight, as every country tried 00:22:42 SPEAKER_03 to cut the best deal they could. No country anywhere 00:22:46 JACK GAINES on Earth would have much confidence in American promises that will protect them. But one of the ways to actually defend 00:22:51 GRANT NEWSHAM Taiwan is, yes, they could maybe use F -35s and long -range missiles and smart pines, etc. You do have to have all of this stuff. Is it enough, even? Particularly if the other side says, okay, we'll absorb whatever you can send at us, but you're finished. But one of the ways that... But one of the ways is to give them a free trade agreement to improve their economy to the point that the government felt like it had money to spend on defense. 00:23:02 SPEAKER_02 Particularly if the other side says, okay, we'll absorb whatever you can send at us, but you're finished. But one of the ways that... But one of the ways is to give them a free trade agreement to improve their economy to the point that the government felt like it had money to spend on defense. You get a certain confidence in the entire society when they're more prosperous. Salaries are very low in Taiwan. Make it so people feel like they've got more money. Can they can buy a house? Can they can buy a condominium? build up the economy and that has a ripple effect throughout the society and on their military itself. And yet we didn't do that. And I think that's where we should apply some effort. 00:23:11 JACK GAINES give them a free trade agreement to 00:23:16 JACK GAINES point that the government felt like it had money to spend on defense. You get a certain confidence in the entire society when they're more prosperous. Salaries are very low in Taiwan. Make it so people feel like they've got more money. Can they can buy a house? Can they can buy a condominium? 00:23:35 JACK GAINES the economy and that has a ripple effect throughout the society and on their military itself. And yet we didn't do that. And I think that's where we should apply some 00:24:25 SPEAKER_02 I think you're right. And it's essential that we start to understand. You look at much of the debate about us in China. What happens when the two forces go at each other? And that's almost like... Going up behind the Waffle House. Going up behind the Waffle House. To see who's the toughest guy in Prince William County. To see who's the toughest guy in Prince William County. Out back. But think of all the things that go into whether or not the two hoodlums. There's all sorts of reasons why. No, the

Please welcome Grant Newsham, retired marine colonel and author of When China Attacks, A Warning to America. Grant came on the show to discuss the state of the Japan Defense Forces and the PRC threat.  This is a two-part episode. Grant's biography: https://centerforsecuritypolicy.org/author/grant-newsham/ Book link: https://www.regnery.com/9781684513659/when-china-attacks/ A recent article: https://andmagazine.substack.com/p/the-us-in-the-pacific-getting-the?utm_source=substack&publication_id=746580&post_id=151553726&utm_medium=email&utm_content=share&utm_campaign=email-share&triggerShare=true&isFreemail=true&r=ercjf&triedRedirect=true --- One CA is a product of the civil affairs association  and brings in people who are current or former military, diplomats, development officers, and field agents to discuss their experiences on the ground with a partner nation's people and leadership. We aim to inspire anyone interested in working in the "last three feet" of U.S. foreign relations.  To contact the show, email us at CApodcasting@gmail.com  or look us up on the Civil Affairs Association website at www civilaffairsassoc.org --- Special thanks to the site Cool Jazz Hot Bossa for the sample of Cool Jazz Hot Bossa. (59:00). Retrieved from: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bdWUj2NYDYQ --- Transcript: (Part I) 00:00:05 JACK GAINES Welcome to the 1CA Podcast. This is your host, Jack Gaines. 1CA is a product of the Civil Affairs Association and brings in people who are current or former military, diplomats, development officers, and field agents to discuss their experiences on ground with the partner nation's people and leadership. Our goal is to inspire anyone interested in working the last three feet of foreign relations. To contact the show, email us at capodcasting@gmail.com. Or look us up on the Civil Affairs Association website at www.civilaffairsassoc.org. I'll have those in the show notes. Please welcome Grant Newsham, retired Marine Colonel and author of When China Attacks, A Warning to America. Grant came on the show to discuss the state of the Japan Defense Forces and the PRC threat. This is the first of a two-part episode, so let's get started. 00:00:56 GRANT NEWSHAM I was effectively MarforPak's guy in Asia for a number of years. which worked well in both directions. So I was obviously in Japan, but also did a lot of work for them throughout the region, Southeast Asia as well, Taiwan even, which was a lot of fun. 00:01:13 JACK GAINES Yeah. And you've become a foreign policy advocate in the area. 00:01:16 GRANT NEWSHAM Yeah. At some point, maybe seven or eight years ago, figured I'd actually done enough stuff to maybe have a few ideas. So I started writing and speak a lot as well. So I guess I'm part of the commentariat. But I seem to write about once a week some topic related to often Asian defense, but sometimes economics, politics, sometimes organized crime. And I do get invited to speak here and there and seem to get a number of television or radio interviews as well. That's really cool. I didn't say I get invited to good things, but I do get the occasional invitation. I used to think it was because I had such insight. Someone told me not all that long ago that actually, if you'll say yes to an interview, you're likely to get more of them. Because the people who book them, they just want to get somebody on. And I thought it was because of my particular wisdom. 00:02:07 JACK GAINES of my particular wisdom. 00:02:09 GRANT NEWSHAM I'm joking a little bit. But obviously, you must have something useful to say. But it is funny. There's one place in Singapore that calls me a lot. It's like their CNN. And they've been calling me. Probably eight years at least, or almost every time, I'll tell the presenters that basically they don't know what they're talking about. And I always think, well, this is the last one, but they keep calling me up. They mislike you because you're the contrarian. 00:02:34 JACK GAINES mislike you because you're the contrarian. 00:02:36 GRANT NEWSHAM Oh, I can blame things in a way that sort of suits broadcast and that sort of regular people can understand, you know, 00:02:42 GRANT NEWSHAM that sort of regular people can understand, you know, being a regular person myself. 00:02:47 JACK GAINES Yeah, you learn to disagree without offending. 00:02:49 GRANT NEWSHAM Usually. And it's always sort of a relief, actually, when you can have a different look at things. 00:02:56 JACK GAINES That's good. I always thought you were going to say it is a relief sometimes when you just peel the coat off and then yell at them. 00:03:02 GRANT NEWSHAM The facts speak for themselves. Right. And if it's a presenter, their role is different, and they will generally not have the substantive knowledge that most of the people on the show will have. Right. And so much of what I have to say is often not... in line with accepted wisdom, particularly when it comes to Japan. Sure. So it's often that I'll have to present a different take on things, but they don't seem to be offended. 00:03:27 JACK GAINES Right. You mostly talk about Japan in its current defense fashion or in its foreign policy actions. 00:03:33 GRANT NEWSHAM A lot of that because people have a perception of Japan, for example, as a pacifist country. It cannot fight. It's peace loving. Right. etc. They have a nuclear allergy. You know, just the idea of nuclear weapons in Japan is out of the question. You often hear, well, their constitution won't let them fight. And none of those things are actually true. But it's the received wisdom. It's what people think. And when you simply point out the realities of Japan, that ultimately, at the end of the day, it's a country just like every other. And that the stereotypes about it really aren't correct when it comes to defense security. In fact, they use that the Constitution won't let them have a military. You probably heard it. Yeah. That's the idea. And they don't even call it a military. But the fact is they've got a military, which, according to some ratings, is the fifth most powerful in the world. It depends on how you calculate it, of course. But they call it something else. And what is the actual distinction between offensive and defensive weapons? 00:04:35 JACK GAINES It's usually the strike space. If it's inside your own country defending, then it's a defense space. Once you go out and start taking out other people's cities and moving forces in. 00:04:44 GRANT NEWSHAM Well, for example, they don't have much what you call power projection capability very far off their borders. But they do have a submarine fleet, say over 20 submarines. There's no reason you couldn't send them to the coast of China and start sinking ships. 00:04:59 JACK GAINES True. 00:05:00 GRANT NEWSHAM They've got F -16s. You can put long -range missiles on them and you can fly out of ways and cause people a lot of trouble. But their military really, I would say, is not so good at offense. It's not so good at defense either. And that's something that comes as a surprise to a lot of people. 00:05:15 JACK GAINES Well, do they exercise defense and offense? 00:05:18 GRANT NEWSHAM Oh, they have exercises, training, and they put on a pretty good show, particularly when they have visitors come. But they really, until very recently, and even now, they can't do joint operations, which means the air, sea, and ground forces. can't operate together. In fact, they don't even have a radio with which they can communicate easily. They have to jury -rig some relations, these connections. And that's something most people don't understand, because you look at it on paper. Japan has 250 ,000 people in its military, and it's got ships, aircraft, all of it modern and good stuff. 150 ,000 people in its ground self -defense force, their army. But it's not even the sum of its whole. If you imagine each of your limbs, your arms and your legs, each doing whatever it wants without the coordinating function provided by a brain. 00:06:10 JACK GAINES Sounds like me dancing. 00:06:12 GRANT NEWSHAM It would be, yeah. I think that I can picture that, whereas I'm more of an Arthur Murray kind of guy. But it's like that. And nobody can believe that because they think, well, this is the Japanese. It's this advanced modern country, big military, the rich country. And I mean, they can't even do these simple things. Right. The short answer is no, except in some limited circumstances. After 60 years of the U .S.-Japan defense relationship, 80 years after World War II, they still cannot do some of the basic things that a military needs to do, or do them very well, put it that way. But they do train, they exercise, the personnel quality is excellent. You know, we tend to say, well, we've got Japan as our ally, Japan has a military. But the reality is that the U .S. and Japanese forces cannot work very well together. There's one exception, and that's the two navies. The U .S. Navy and the Japanese Navy, called the Maritime Self -Defense Force, they actually do work well. And they show what's doable. 00:07:15 JACK GAINES They probably do dynamic exercises as well as structured ones, so they have to change, have to practice new orders and maneuvers. 00:07:22 GRANT NEWSHAM Well, the nature of naval operations is you can go out... into the sea, and you have more freedom to actually do stuff. But part of it actually was when Admiral Arleigh Burke, who was later chief of naval operations for many years, he was in charge in Japan. He basically laid down the ground rules, which was that the American Navy was going to treat the Japanese like friends, like allies. And that set the tone for everything. So they had a more relationship of equals, people who wanted to operate together. And that is why they have a good relationship today. in my opinion. So as a result, after all these decades, the two militaries are not really very good at operating together. There's no joint headquarters. There never has been in Japan. At best, they've operated in isolation. Do they recognize they don't have a joint access? Oh, they know. The Japanese military knows this. And US Indo -PACOM has not pushed the issue. And then you had... The State Department side, on the civilian side, people saying, well, if we ask the Japanese to get better at defense matters, well, they'll get angry. And if they do, then the Chinese will be mad. So you have the U .S. on the U .S. side. We're thinking of at least 10 reasons why Japan cannot improve its defenses. That's changed enough in recent years. But you see how many decades we've lost. 00:08:51 JACK GAINES Right. I can see part of what the State Department is saying in that a lot of those countries along the Asian coast were under Japanese rule during World War II. They're concerned that by showing favor and coordinating with them in defense might offend places like the Philippines or Korea. It is a concern to be weighed, but I don't know how much weight you would put to it. 00:09:14 GRANT NEWSHAM I wouldn't give it hardly any. With the Japanese, when you actually think about it, I would say within... 30 years of the end of the war, but certainly today, and for the last at least 20 years ago. The new century. Even before that. The Japanese and World War II is not really an issue in almost all of Asia. The Chinese, of course... Play it up. That's a good way to put it. Of course, they do remember what the Japanese did, and it was barbaric. Although the Chinese Communist Party afterwards killed 50 million Chinese in peacetime and good weather, which the Imperial Japanese Army couldn't have dreamed of doing. But World War II is an issue in China. Korea as well, the relationship is dicey. Up to a point. I mean, little old ladies go and sit in front of the embassy still. 00:10:05 JACK GAINES the embassy still. 00:10:06 GRANT NEWSHAM There are, and then you just had a South Korean amphibious ship come to Yokosuka in Tokyo on a visit. In Korea, there's a fundamental sort of suspicion of the Japanese. Sometimes it is a real dislike. But most people, it's not a big issue. But except for those two countries, you go down the list in Asia, and there is no after effect of World War II. I find the Filipinos get along very well with the Japanese. The Indonesians do. They, in fact, see the Japanese as being the people who freed them from the colonial yoke. Okay. The Malays, they actually didn't have that bad a time during the occupation. The Chinese in Malaysia did. So the Malaysians don't have any really hard feelings against the Japanese. Taiwan, same thing. They've got a very good relationship. And then there's one plus billion Indians who actually have an excellent relationship with Japan and see Japan as real friends and vice versa. So you're starting to get a good chunk of Asia, which, as you can see, actually sees Japan as a good country, useful economically. It's been very generous. And they like to see a Japanese military that's strong enough, allied with the United States, able to deal with China. 00:11:27 JACK GAINES Right. And why would we have such a different balance as we do with Germany and Europe? Because no one's questioning this in Holland or in France. That's just another country. They freely trade, they freely access each other. So maybe mindset just needs to shift to say the reform of Japan is just like Germany, and we need to start treating them and partner nations the same and start advocating for a joint staff. 00:11:52 GRANT NEWSHAM And you could do that in an afternoon, but the Japanese will not speak up for themselves. And an old New York Times reporter, Richard Halloran, I remember him telling me once that all the people he ever dealt with in the world... The Japanese were the worst at explaining themselves. And there's a reticence which slows them down. But also the Americans are afraid to tell them what we need. And that is a huge problem, because if we don't tell them, the Japanese are not blind readers, and they won't do what we think we'd like them to do, but we're afraid to ask. And in fact, one of the Japanese prime ministers in 1970, so 50 -some years ago, He gave some very good advice to the Americans, and it was at the time the Americans were trying to put an aircraft carrier into Yokosuka, the naval base near Tokyo. They wanted to assign it there permanently. And the U .S. side was thinking of excuses why it was too hard for the Japanese. They'll cause political difficulties. The Japanese have an election coming up. The timing just isn't right. And finally, the Japanese side sent a message to the Americans saying, tell us what you need. And don't back down. And they said it out of exasperation, really. And it was the best advice the Americans have ever been given. And we've refused to follow it ever since then. And really, it's almost a cultural trait, sort of a Confucian system. They actually are happy to have experts tell them what they ought to do. Sure. Whereas we are more of the Socratic method. And it doesn't, it just doesn't work. That's why after all these years, the Americans and the Japanese forces, except for the navies, And except for missile defense, we really don't operate together anywhere near where we need to be. We're not even close. And another very interesting fact a lot of people don't know is the Japanese military missed its recruitment targets by about 50 % last year. 5 -0? 00:13:50 JACK GAINES -0? 00:13:50 GRANT NEWSHAM 5 -0. And it routinely misses them by 20 -25%. So this, you can see, is a problem. It's now an older force, doesn't have enough people. In order to fulfill its missions, it would probably have to be twice as big, both personnel -wise and in terms of ships and hardware. Its war stocks are basically non -existent, doesn't know anything really about casualty care, combat casualty replacements, logistics. 00:14:20 JACK GAINES Well, if the media looks down on it and the political class looks down on it, it's not going to get a lot of positivity in the public mindset. So that's got to be part of it. It's not a vote -getter to push for a strong defense. 00:14:31 GRANT NEWSHAM vote -getter to push for a strong defense. I mean, if you're a politician, no one's going to say, he's the defense guy, let's give him our vote. But people vote for other reasons. But you do get used to, after that horrific experience in World War II, that for decades people didn't want to really think about defense, and they were glad to have the Americans around to handle it, and particularly when it seemed like there wasn't any real threat anywhere. People were happy with that, and even the U .S. side. didn't mind it as well. But I'd say it should have started to change at least 20 years ago. And it didn't until maybe four or five years ago. Well, 00:15:10 JACK GAINES when did the risk indicators really start popping up with China? 00:15:14 GRANT NEWSHAM I think by... It can't be back when Nixon went. 00:15:15 JACK GAINES It can't be back when Nixon went. Well, it should have, 00:15:16 GRANT NEWSHAM it should have, you know, I think. But about 2005 is when it was obvious what was coming. 00:15:19 JACK GAINES But about 00:15:21 GRANT NEWSHAM when it was obvious what was coming. And even before that, if you knew what to look for. But as I said, some of us... We knew what needed done and what the problems were. And there were Japanese who did too. And that's why when we put together their amphibious force, it was sort of an effort to address the shortcomings in Japan's self -defense force. Also to improve the overall U .S.-Japan relationship because it was so imbalanced. Right. Where the Japanese weren't doing anything near enough to defend themselves. And that over time creates a lot of friction in a relationship. So we were trying to address that with the amphibious force, and that was 2011, which we were pretty successful at that because we didn't ask permission from anybody. I was going to say, if you were successful, 00:16:10 JACK GAINES did you get fired? 00:16:11 GRANT NEWSHAM Well, it's not that people didn't try. 00:16:11 JACK GAINES Well, it's not that people didn't try. Sorry, that was sarcastic. But I was a reservist, so they couldn't quite get a bead on me. 00:16:15 GRANT NEWSHAM I was a reservist, so they couldn't quite get a bead on me. Yeah. And didn't quite know what we were doing. And also you had people like General Gregson, who was then at... Department of Defense, who had been in Japan many years, and he knew the importance of it all. So he would provide some cover. But the real success there was because the Japanese side took the ideas and ran with it. And the Americans provided some cover and some know -how and some advice. But it was the Japanese who did that. Once the Japanese took on the mission, well, what are the Americans going to say? But I was even told that at Indo -PACOM, that there were people who gotten wind of this and were very much opposed because the idea that Japanese having an amphibious force was provocative. Not just provocative, but it was going to cause the Japanese to go on the rampage again, like in 1941. I'm not making this up. 00:17:11 JACK GAINES So when Germany starts building the Leopard 2, were they expected to go on a rampage too? 00:17:17 GRANT NEWSHAM No, those are Europeans. Oh, okay. You know how the Europeans are okay. 00:17:19 JACK GAINES okay. You know 00:17:21 GRANT NEWSHAM But the fact that Germans have been allowed back into polite society. tells you something, and the Japanese are just as deserving of it as well. 00:17:30 JACK GAINES Did you see the movie Godzilla Minus One? No. It's an interesting portrayal of post -World War II Japan. And Godzilla, which is this giant monster, comes out of the sea, tears up Japan, and has an atomic breath that shoots off nuclear explosions, which sounds a lot like the United States in a mythological way. One thing that... the show did that was interesting is it kind of engaged post -military era and had talked about it. And it seemed like it was trying to reconcile the past with now and build out a notion that the military is okay, that after the war, there were good things that happened and that we should embrace a military in the future. So there might be some societal impulses out there that are promoting and supporting a more built -up military in Japan. 00:18:24 GRANT NEWSHAM Well, you're actually right. The public at large has always been pretty supportive of the military. For example, when they have open base days, when they put on so -called firepower demonstrations, which is like an exercise you can watch where they shoot off stuff, that they're always oversubscribed. And people just pour into these things because they're interested. And the central government, or say the ruling class, are the ones who are gun -shy or... I'm really hesitant, but the public at large, you know, when you ask them, you know, should Japan have a normal military? The replies to that are like 85%. Well, yes, of course. And I think they would be horrified if they knew the actual state of the Japanese military. I mentioned this to a Japanese politician last year, and he was horrified at the idea. And the public as well would have a similar reaction. Regular Japanese people say they have a pretty good understanding of what Japan needs to do to defend itself and of the importance of having a national defense, but the government doesn't explain it very well. When they do, the reaction, there's a Japanese expression, it's called like, it's atarimae. And it means like, well, yeah. It's like, duh. 00:19:42 JACK GAINES Abnautually. And that's what it means. 00:19:42 GRANT NEWSHAM And that's what it means. Should Japan have a good defense? Atarimae. And yeah, what's the question here? But if you ask that question in the political world, then you'll get all sorts of emming and hawing. They wanted nothing of that. By the late 70s, certainly by the 90s, that they sort of outlived that. But it was comfortable to continue with it, particularly if you're the government, because you don't have to spend money on defense. And the Americans are covering that. So it was as if the Americans were giving. I'd say at least $50 billion a year in free defense coverage, at least, probably more. And, you know, if you're a government, you think, well, why should we do anything different? And so they got used to that. We got used to it. And then at some point, the friction builds up where you just can't do that. And the Japanese themselves start to be resentful. 00:20:37 JACK GAINES Right. Keeping them handicapped, probably. 00:20:40 GRANT NEWSHAM Yeah. You know, they're not letting us be self -fulfilled. I think that's sort of the marriage counselor's analysis. And so that imbalance was such that it was creating huge problems in the relationship. But the defense relationship, you know, pointing out, well, you know, you guys really aren't very good, except for the Navy. You know, and we can't work with you very well, except for the Navies. And as a result, that's why we are where we are today. By now, if we had a more sort of capable U .S.-Japan defense relationship, where the two services could... operate together, and we're conducting a joint defense of Japan and the surrounding areas, which includes, say, to Taiwan even, that that would have, I think, deterred a lot of the problems that we're having. But by pretending everything was okay, we've gotten ourselves in a position where we now face a real threat out there. And we're trying to make up for lost time. And I don't know. And I don't know which side I would bet on. I'd bet on ours because I'm an American. But that's how out of whack it has gotten. It used to be maybe till 20 years ago, we were in pretty good shape. But you can see that advantage eroding. And nowadays, depending on how a fight were to take place, if it does take place, it would be less of a sure thing than it once was. And that's, I think, putting it very nicely. 00:22:04 JACK GAINES Well, tell me about the threat. 00:22:05 GRANT NEWSHAM What are you seeing? It's China. led by the Chinese Communist Party. (Part II) 00:00:02 JACK GAINES Welcome to the 1CA Podcast. This is your host, Jack Gaines. 1CA is a product of the Civil Affairs Association and brings in people who are current or former military, diplomats, development officers, and field agents to discuss their experiences on ground with the partner nation's people and leadership. Our goal is to inspire anyone interested in working the last three feet of foreign relations. To contact the show, email us at capodcasting@gmail.com. or look us up on the Civil Affairs Association website at www.civilaffairsassoc.org. I'll have those in the show notes. Please welcome back Grant Newsham, retired Marine colonel and author of When China Attacks, A Warning to America. Grant came on the show to discuss the state of the Japanese defense forces and the PRC threat. This is the second in a two-part episode, so let's get started. 00:00:56 SPEAKER_02 It's China. led by the Chinese Communist Party. They built up a military which is just gradually but steadily expanding its reach and its coverage. And it is compared to, say, 2020, now instead of just being able to operate a little bit off their coast, they can reach Guam, Hawaii, and onwards. The Chinese military doesn't tend to develop into a force able to operate worldwide just like the U .S. can. And their ship numbers. They've got more than we do. Something like 350 versus our 290. 00:00:58 JACK GAINES the Chinese Communist Party. 00:01:06 JACK GAINES its reach 00:01:11 JACK GAINES say, 2020, now instead of just being able to operate a little bit 00:01:15 GRANT NEWSHAM off their coast, they can reach Guam, Hawaii, and onwards. The Chinese military doesn't tend to develop into a force able to operate worldwide just 00:01:25 JACK GAINES like the U .S. can. And their ship numbers. They've got more than we do. Something like 350 versus our 00:01:37 SPEAKER_02 Well, fortunately, in terms of quality, they're pretty good. And they know what they need to do, and they're getting better. For some things like carrier operations, they're not at our level yet. But if you look at the speed at which they have developed, they're in pretty good shape. But let's just say the South China Sea, which is one and a half times the size of the Mediterranean. Whenever U .S. ships go in there, and we do publicize our transits and operations and exercises, for every ship we put in there, For every ship we put in, the Chinese can match it with at least 10. And that doesn't include ground -based and air -launched anti -ship missiles, for example. So if the Chinese pick their spot, 00:01:39 JACK GAINES they're pretty good. And they know what they need to do, and they're getting better. For some things like carrier operations, they're not at our level yet. But if you look at the speed at which they have developed, they're in pretty good shape. But let's just say the South China Sea, which is one and a half times the size of the Mediterranean. 00:02:00 JACK GAINES and we do publicize our transits and operations and exercises, for every ship we put in there, For every ship we put in, the Chinese can match it with at least 10. And that doesn't include ground -based and air -launched anti -ship missiles, for example. 00:02:16 SPEAKER_02 if the Chinese pick their spot, pick their timing, I wouldn't want to be the destroyer skipper who's got 20 anti -ship missiles coming at him. 20 anti -ship missiles coming at him. And he's got eight seconds to figure out what to do. The point is they have had de facto control of the South China Sea since about seven, eight years ago. And yes, we can go in there. But once we're gone, the Chinese close back up and they've pretty much got it. Beyond that, it's harder for them, but they're steadily expanding their capability to conduct operations. It's a military that has its problems, like every military, but they are trying to correct them. They are building a military which they want to be able to defeat a country that has aircraft carriers, which is us. In many respects, they are our equals. Have you ever heard a Korean War veteran who said he wanted to fight the Chinese again? And these were Chinese. These was the Chinese of 1950s. It's a very different place today. And I'm not saying that they can't be defeated, but I'm not saying that they can't be defeated. An adversary that could give us a lot of trouble. When their intentions are to first dominate regionally and locally, and then push that farther afield to all the Pacific and beyond. And they're setting up the infrastructure worldwide with ports and airfields to do that. They're investing in long -range transports, these naval replenishment ships that you need to be able to operate the way we do, and that's their mission. And we have pretended until about 2017 that this wasn't the case. In fact, you couldn't even say China was an adversary. And guys who did, like Captain James Fennell, who was the head of intelligence at Pack Fleet. He was cashier. He was forced to retire. He was cashier. He was forced to retire. The then administration hated him and got rid of him. And that's how bad it was. And I saw this all firsthand. Experience some of it, not as bad as Captain Fennell did. So we've allowed them to build up into a military that we had better take very seriously. And the Chinese do see this as a tool for their... 00:02:16 JACK GAINES if the 00:02:17 SPEAKER_03 Chinese pick their spot, pick their timing, I wouldn't want to be the destroyer skipper who's got 20 anti -ship missiles coming at him. 20 anti -ship missiles coming at him. 00:02:28 JACK GAINES figure out what to do. The point is they have had de facto control of the South China Sea since about seven, eight years ago. 00:02:39 JACK GAINES we're gone, the Chinese close back up and they've pretty much got it. Beyond that, it's 00:02:45 SPEAKER_03 but they're steadily expanding their capability to conduct operations. It's a military that has its problems, like every military, but they are trying to correct them. They are 00:02:55 JACK GAINES a military which they want to be able to defeat a country that has aircraft carriers, which is us. In many respects, 00:03:03 JACK GAINES our equals. Have you ever heard a Korean War veteran who said he wanted to fight the Chinese again? And these were Chinese. These was the Chinese of 1950s. It's a very different place today. And I'm not saying that they can't be defeated, but I'm not saying that they can't 00:03:22 JACK GAINES a lot of trouble. When their intentions are to first dominate regionally and locally, and then push that farther afield to all the Pacific and beyond. And they're setting up the infrastructure worldwide with ports and airfields to do that. They're investing in long -range transports, these naval replenishment ships that you need to be able to operate the way we do, and that's their mission. And we have pretended 00:03:50 SPEAKER_03 until about 2017 00:03:51 GRANT NEWSHAM that this wasn't the case. In fact, you couldn't even say China was an adversary. And guys who did, like Captain James Fennell, 00:04:01 JACK GAINES who was the head of intelligence at Pack Fleet. He was cashier. He was forced to retire. He was cashier. He was forced to retire. The then administration hated him and got rid of him. And that's how bad it was. And I saw this all firsthand. Experience some of it, not as bad as Captain Fennell did. So we've allowed them to build up into a military that we had better take very seriously. And the Chinese do see this as a tool for 00:04:30 SPEAKER_02 The idea is if you have a powerful military, well, that's when you can lean on people. That's when you can intimidate people. You can dominate them. And they're happy with the psychological domination, political domination. It doesn't have to be occupying, but dominating. And they're in every field, from outer space, long -range missiles, undersea warfare, really putting a lot of effort into it. And there is a certain sort of ingenuity that goes into their operations. Well, they can't invent things. They don't develop things on their own. They just steal things. So they reverse engineer things. So they reverse engineer. 00:04:32 SPEAKER_03 well, that's when you can lean on people. That's when 00:04:39 JACK GAINES And they're happy with the psychological domination, political domination. It doesn't have to be occupying, but dominating. And they're in every field, from outer space, long -range missiles, undersea warfare, really putting a lot of effort into it. And there is a certain sort of ingenuity that goes into their operations. Well, they can't invent things. They don't develop things on their own. They just steal things. So they reverse engineer things. 00:05:09 SPEAKER_02 Well, it... You know, it's kind of true up to a point, but look at us. The Yankee ingenuity was taking stolen British technology and making it better. And so the fact they may not be as innovative as us, well, sometimes it just has to be good enough. So they've got now a military to combine with this desire for political domination as well as considering their economic power as just as important as the military. And you see how successful that has been. When you have U .S. business leaders giving Xi Jinping two standing ovations last November in San Francisco, that tells you how successful they've been on the economic front. And the Japanese know they have a huge problem. You would often hear the Japanese military saying, one thing Taiwan's defense is Japan's defense. But I've even seen the calculations they did, like at which point the Japanese Navy would be outmatched by the Chinese Navy. And they had the date almost down to when it was. And our side, we were late recognizing this. We refused to. We refused to. 00:05:11 GRANT NEWSHAM kind of true up to a point, but look at us. The Yankee ingenuity was taking stolen British technology and making it better. And so the fact 00:05:20 SPEAKER_03 be as innovative as us, well, sometimes it just 00:05:23 JACK GAINES has to be good enough. So they've got now a military to combine with this desire for political domination as well as considering their economic power as just as important as the military. And you see how successful that has been. When you have U .S. business leaders giving Xi Jinping two standing 00:05:45 JACK GAINES San Francisco, that tells you how successful they've been on the economic front. And the Japanese know they have a huge problem. You 00:05:53 SPEAKER_03 would often hear the Japanese military saying, one thing Taiwan's defense is Japan's defense. But I've even seen the calculations they did, like at which 00:06:03 JACK GAINES point the 00:06:06 JACK GAINES be outmatched by the Chinese Navy. And they had the date almost down to when it was. And our side, we were late recognizing this. We refused 00:07:18 SPEAKER_02 Yeah, as he described it well. Ultimately, the military part of the fight is extremely important. But it's almost a sideshow. But it's almost a sideshow to the other activities, the other fight that China's been waging for the last 30, 40 years, almost ever since we opened up to them. And that has been generally referred to as political warfare, with components being economic warfare, financial warfare, drug warfare, which is the word the Chinese use. So all this fentanyl that's been pumped into America for the last decade that's killed up towards a million Americans, almost all of it comes from China. And they know exactly what they're doing. And so every year they're taking like the equivalent of two or three divisions off the battlefield. You've destroyed neighborhoods. You've destroyed successful economic warfare. Drive 30 miles up the road to Baltimore. Go to Sparrows, Baltimore. Where there used to be steel mills. And now you have Amazon fulfillment sectors at best. But you've seen just the gutting of American society, the so -called working class, the Rust Belt. And this was done intentionally. And this was done intentionally. In large part, Chinese economic warfare directed at the United States. And then you have cyber warfare as well. You have cyber espionage. Well beyond what countries normally do. But they have used it very effectively. And the Chinese just... Recently put out their new fighter. That's called the J -35. That is a dig at the Americans. Because it is based on stolen blueprints for the F -35. I don't know. 00:07:20 SPEAKER_03 Ultimately, the military part of the 00:07:26 SPEAKER_03 it's almost a sideshow. 00:07:29 JACK GAINES sideshow to the other activities, the other fight that China's been waging for the last 30, 40 years, almost ever since we opened up to them. And that has been generally referred to as political warfare, with components being economic warfare, financial warfare, drug warfare, which is the word the Chinese use. So all this fentanyl that's been pumped into America for the last decade that's killed up towards a million Americans, almost all of it comes from China. And they know exactly what they're doing. And so every year they're taking like the equivalent of two or three divisions off the battlefield. You've destroyed neighborhoods. You've destroyed successful economic warfare. Drive 30 miles up the road to Baltimore. Go to Sparrows, Baltimore. Where there used to be steel mills. And now you have Amazon fulfillment sectors at best. But you've seen just the gutting of American society, the so -called working class, the Rust Belt. And this was done intentionally. 00:08:26 JACK GAINES warfare directed at the United States. And then you have cyber warfare as well. You have cyber espionage. 00:08:34 SPEAKER_03 Well beyond what countries normally do. But they have used it very effectively. And the Chinese just... Recently put out their new fighter. That's called the J -35. That is a dig at 00:08:47 GRANT NEWSHAM it is based on stolen blueprints for the F -35. 00:08:55 GRANT NEWSHAM know. It's been a while. I don't know. It's been a while. 00:09:02 SPEAKER_02 Unfortunately, Copperfish is leapfrogging over stages. Yes, it may take them a little longer, but they will popscotch through it. And so... So I take it pretty seriously. Their Y -20, their long -range transport, is basically the C -17. And they've just been immensely successful at this sort of espionage. And at the same time, we've done nothing to push back on them. Then there's the propaganda angle of this, which really good old Jesuit meaning of the word just means to explain yourself or articulate your position. So people understand that they've been very successful in getting Americans to buy the Chinese line. China's rise is peaceful. China's rise is peaceful. China's never attacked anybody. China's never attacked anybody. It's not true. All great nations do this. So who are we to complain? America has its problems, too. America has its problems, too. Who are we to complain about the Chinese taking live organs out of Uyghurs and prisoners of conscience? And we've been able to convince ourselves that we've been able to convince ourselves that we've not only can we not do anything, we shouldn't do anything. This is changing. But you can see we were very late getting started. And this has all been done without firing a shot. Chinese economic inroads, Chinese economic inroads, which leads to political influence, is in, for example, South America and Africa. Just immense how fast that has come, how solid it is. Pacific Island, something similar is going on, something similar is going on. Look at the difficulties the Germans have had, weaning themselves off of this Chinese addiction. And as a result, 00:09:03 GRANT NEWSHAM is leapfrogging over stages. Yes, it may take them 00:09:07 SPEAKER_03 but they will 00:09:09 GRANT NEWSHAM popscotch through it. And so... So I take it pretty seriously. Their Y -20, 00:09:16 JACK GAINES their long -range transport, is basically the C -17. And they've just been immensely successful at this sort of espionage. And at the same time, we've done nothing to push back on them. Then there's the propaganda angle of this, which really good old Jesuit meaning of the word just means to explain yourself or articulate your position. So people understand that they've been very successful in getting Americans to buy the Chinese line. China's rise is peaceful. China's rise is peaceful. China's never attacked anybody. China's never attacked anybody. It's not true. All great nations do this. So who are we to complain? 00:09:49 SPEAKER_03 America has its problems, too. America has its problems, too. Who are we to complain about the Chinese taking live organs out of Uyghurs and prisoners of conscience? And we've been able to 00:10:00 JACK GAINES that we've been able 00:10:00 SPEAKER_03 to convince ourselves that we've not only can we not do anything, we shouldn't do anything. This is changing. But you can see we were very late getting started. And this has all been done without firing a shot. 00:10:10 JACK GAINES Chinese economic inroads, Chinese economic inroads, which leads to political influence, is in, for example, South America and Africa. Just immense how fast that has come, how solid it is. Pacific Island, something similar is going on, something similar is going on. 00:10:27 SPEAKER_03 Look at the difficulties the Germans have had, weaning themselves off of this Chinese addiction. 00:10:34 SPEAKER_02 as a result, they have been able to improve their position politically, psychologically, economically, and they've been able to do this globally without having to use their military. 00:10:36 SPEAKER_03 their position 00:10:40 GRANT NEWSHAM and they've been able to do this globally without having to use their military. 00:10:51 SPEAKER_02 Yeah, that's the idea. Is you don't want to. So our view of warfare is like a hundred -yard dash. Wherever the two sides come to the line, shake loose, and then someone fires a gun, and then someone fires a gun, and then it's game on. To the Chinese, the war has started long ago. And you're wearing down your opponent. You're weakening his ability to resist. You're creating chaos in his own country. There's a word called entropy. Which is just breaking down. Entropic warfare is a word that sometimes gets used. For you're breaking down his ability to resist. And at the same time, of course, the Chinese are building up a military, which is very serious. Yes, it's not showing up off of San Diego just yet. But places closer to China, it's much more of an issue. Japan knows the problem they have with the People's Liberation Army. Pacific Island, Southeast Asia. You are seeing more of a Chinese presence. And the point is, when the time comes, you may not even be able to resist if the Chinese have done this other sort of warfare. 00:10:53 JACK GAINES want to. So our view of warfare is like a hundred -yard dash. Wherever the two sides come to the line, shake loose, and then someone fires a gun, and then someone fires a gun, and then it's game on. To the Chinese, the war has started long ago. And you're wearing down your opponent. You're weakening his ability to resist. You're creating chaos in his own country. There's a word called entropy. Which is just breaking down. Entropic warfare is a word that 00:11:19 SPEAKER_03 sometimes gets used. For you're breaking down his ability to resist. And at the same time, of course, the Chinese are building up a military, which is very serious. 00:11:28 JACK GAINES Yes, it's not showing 00:11:33 JACK GAINES places closer to China, it's much more of an issue. Japan knows the problem they have with the People's Liberation Army. Pacific Island, Southeast Asia. You are seeing more 00:11:46 JACK GAINES Chinese presence. And the point is, when the time comes, you may not even be able to resist if the Chinese have 00:11:52 SPEAKER_03 this other 00:12:31 SPEAKER_02 That's exactly what it is. It's mental warfare. You're attacking the mind. You're attacking how people think about things. Some people use the word cognitive warfare. You're the popular word. Yeah, you're attacking the mind. And so you can see how well it worked. And the Russians had a much poorer hand to play than the Chinese do. Because we do so much business with China. And you see how hard it is to do things like ban TikTok. We can't even get that done. 00:12:33 JACK GAINES mental warfare. You're attacking the mind. You're attacking how people think about things. Some people use the 00:12:42 JACK GAINES You're the popular word. Yeah, you're attacking the mind. And so you can see how well it worked. And the Russians had a much poorer hand to play than 00:12:50 GRANT NEWSHAM the Chinese do. Because we do so much business with China. And you see how hard it is to do things like ban TikTok. We can't even get that done. 00:12:59 SPEAKER_02 We can't even get that done. 00:13:03 SPEAKER_02 Look, 72 hours, if that for the Indians do, we can do it. And you see how Chinese successfully use what they call lawfare, which is using our own legal system. And the idea is that you get proxies, influential foreigners in your target country to actually do your bidding for you. The Chinese have like five aces to play. The Russians might have won, but you can see how successful the Russians have been just with that. 00:13:04 JACK GAINES for the Indians do, we can do it. And you see how Chinese successfully use what they call lawfare, which 00:13:13 JACK GAINES the idea is that you get proxies, influential foreigners in your target country to actually do your bidding for you. The Chinese have like five aces to play. The Russians might have won, but you can see how successful the Russians have 00:13:41 SPEAKER_02 Uh -huh. Uh -huh. 00:13:46 SPEAKER_02 Well, you're right about the Russians, but the Chinese understand that the term gray zone paralyzes Americans. We have no idea what to do because of our view of warfare being until the shooting starts. That it is we're not really at war. There's still hope of working something out. 00:13:51 GRANT NEWSHAM paralyzes Americans. We have no idea what to do because of our view of warfare being until the shooting starts. That it is we're not really at war. There's still hope of working 00:14:03 SPEAKER_03 something out. 00:14:05 SPEAKER_02 That has been our rote response for all these years, is to not get the Chinese mad, don't provoke them, and we have convinced ourselves that we have to have Chinese help with fill -in -the -blank, North Korea transnational crime, nuclear weapons proliferation, climate change, and therefore we cannot challenge the PRC because we won't get their cooperation. That's what we've effectively handcuffed ourselves, but when it comes to that so -called hybrid warfare, it's not all that It's not all that complicated if you recognize what it is and how it fits into China's behavior, its strategy. But you also would do well to attract from other directions where they're particularly vulnerable. And that is where you take advantage of the fact, for example, the Chinese currency is not freely convertible, which means that outside of China, nobody really wants Chinese money. It's like the script at a... It's like the script where you can use it to buy caramel corn and go on the rides. 00:14:05 SPEAKER_03 has been our rote response for all these years, is to not get the Chinese mad, don't provoke them, and we have convinced ourselves that 00:14:14 JACK GAINES have Chinese help with fill -in -the -blank, North Korea transnational crime, nuclear weapons 00:14:22 JACK GAINES climate change, and therefore we cannot challenge the PRC because we won't get their cooperation. That's what we've effectively handcuffed ourselves, but when it comes to that so -called hybrid warfare, it's not all that It's not all that complicated if you recognize what it is and how it fits into 00:14:42 JACK GAINES its strategy. But you also would do well to attract from other directions where they're particularly vulnerable. And that is where you take advantage of the fact, for example, the Chinese currency is not freely convertible, which means that outside of China, nobody really wants Chinese money. It's like the script at a... It's like the script where you can use it to buy caramel corn and 00:15:06 SPEAKER_02 That's it. Nobody wants it. So choke that off and China's got some real problems. Another is the just thoroughgoing corruption of China's ruling class. And most of them have wealth overseas, foreign bank accounts. foreign bank accounts, relatives with green cards, relatives with green cards, some operate businesses overseas. And this is illegal. And this is illegal. 00:15:08 JACK GAINES it. So choke that off and China's got some real problems. Another is the just thoroughgoing corruption of China's ruling class. And most 00:15:19 GRANT NEWSHAM overseas, foreign bank accounts. foreign bank accounts, relatives with green cards, relatives with green cards, some operate businesses overseas. And this 00:15:31 SPEAKER_02 And this is where that really scares them. Because in 2011 or 2012, New York Times and Bloomberg actually put out some good stories about the overseas wealth of China's top people, including Xi Jinping's family. I've never seen a reaction from the Chinese like that one. This bothered them. 00:15:33 JACK GAINES scares them. Because in 2011 or 2012, New 00:15:37 SPEAKER_03 York Times and Bloomberg actually put out some good stories about the overseas wealth of China's top people, including Xi Jinping's family. 00:15:46 GRANT NEWSHAM I've never seen a reaction from the Chinese like that one. 00:15:53 SPEAKER_02 More than anything else we've ever done. That's... 00:15:53 GRANT NEWSHAM than anything 00:16:14 SPEAKER_02 One way to do it. Another way to do it. That would be a tactical thing. Say you were to release, say, every Friday. Say at 1 a .m. 1 o 'clock or whenever. 1 a .m. 1 o 'clock or whenever. 00:16:16 JACK GAINES way to do it. That would be a tactical thing. Say you were to 00:16:19 SPEAKER_03 release, say, every Friday. Say at 1 a .m. 1 o 'clock or whenever. 1 a .m. 1 o 'clock or whenever. 00:16:25 SPEAKER_02 Which of the top 50 Chinese Communist Party officials? And make sure it reached everywhere in China. The thing that the public really hates is this corruption. And by the top dogs. And that is something that really bothers them. And you note that the Chinese leadership is very willing to have the average Chinese citizen absorb any amount of punishment. And they even talk about it. 00:16:27 SPEAKER_03 Chinese Communist Party officials? And make sure it 00:16:29 GRANT NEWSHAM reached everywhere in China. The thing that the public really hates is this corruption. And by the top dogs. 00:16:38 JACK GAINES is something that really bothers them. And you note that the Chinese leadership is very willing to have the average Chinese citizen 00:16:49 JACK GAINES they even talk about it. 00:16:51 SPEAKER_02 But when it's personal, then they see it very differently. And this is one of the few ways to really make it personal for them is to capitalize on this corruption. So when we talk about... Dealing with Gray's own operations, we're probably not going to be all that successful. Because they have more ships, they can be in more places. 00:16:51 JACK GAINES when it's personal, then they see it very differently. And this is one of the few ways to really make it personal for them is to capitalize on this corruption. So when we talk about... Dealing with Gray's own operations, we're probably not going to be all that successful. Because they have more ships, they can be in more places. 00:17:14 SPEAKER_02 But expose that. They can do that. Have we made a concerted effort to expose Chinese bribery, the illicit payments, the corruption that they put into everywhere they go? Everywhere there's a Chinese presence, you have corruption of the society, the political class as well. And do we ever target that? Do we consider it a priority effort? I don't even think we consider it an effort at all. Exposure is the one thing that has a huge effect. This is why investigative journalists get big. It's why like Irish. gangsters try to murder them in Malta they get blown up because they're effective because they're effective which is the thing that makes it very hard for corruption to work and that's where I think 00:17:15 JACK GAINES can do that. Have we made a concerted effort to expose Chinese bribery, the illicit payments, the corruption that they put into everywhere they go? Everywhere there's a Chinese presence, you have corruption of the society, the political class as well. And do we ever target that? Do we consider it a priority effort? I don't even think we consider it an effort at all. Exposure is the one thing that has a huge effect. This is why investigative journalists 00:17:44 SPEAKER_03 get big. It's why like Irish. gangsters try to murder them in Malta they get blown up because they're effective because they're effective which 00:17:52 SPEAKER_02 is the thing that makes it very hard for corruption to work and that's where I think We have some real opportunities to make it very clear what's being done. And this is something that, if you expose it, you can really capitalize on it. Just make it too hard to do this. And it also gives oxygen to the honest people in a country. It gives them something to work with. It gives them something to work with. To take on these repressive regimes, these corrupt regimes, these corrupt regimes, administrations. And get rid of them and replace them with honest people. I've never met anywhere, anywhere I've been. Over the years. Where people like to be cheaters. Where people like to be cheaters. Where they like their leaders to be corrupt. I just haven't met it. I've been anywhere. I just haven't met it. I've been anywhere. It's just nothing you can do. But it's just nothing you can do. It really has an effect. And that's where I think government for sources could be effectively devoted. And particularly once you get local reporters in on it. Once you get the local. Honest locals in on it. Honest locals in on it. And that's where I think we could be very effective. Corruption, as you've mentioned, that really is the grease to everything the Chinese communists do globally. Take it away and then take away their access to dollars, convertible currency. And they've really got some problems. But they have played their hand very well today. But in some ways it's a house of cards. I don't think it's that hard to take on. But the longer you wait, the harder it gets. 00:17:52 SPEAKER_03 is the thing that makes it 00:17:54 JACK GAINES corruption to work and that's where I think We have some real opportunities to make it very clear what's being done. And this is something that, if you expose it, you can really capitalize on it. Just make it too hard to do this. And it also gives oxygen to the honest people in a country. It 00:18:16 JACK GAINES to work with. To take on these repressive regimes, these corrupt regimes, these corrupt regimes, 00:18:23 JACK GAINES them with honest people. I've never met anywhere, anywhere I've been. Over the years. Where 00:18:32 JACK GAINES I just haven't met it. I've been anywhere. I just haven't met it. I've been anywhere. It's just nothing you can do. But it's just nothing you can do. It really has an effect. And that's where I think government for sources could be effectively devoted. And particularly once you 00:18:46 GRANT NEWSHAM reporters in on it. Once you get the local. Honest locals in on it. Honest locals in on it. And that's where I think we could be very effective. 00:18:56 JACK GAINES Corruption, as you've mentioned, that really is the grease to everything the Chinese communists do globally. Take it away and then take away their access to dollars, convertible currency. And they've really got some 00:19:12 JACK GAINES today. But in some ways it's a house of cards. I don't think it's that hard to take on. But the longer you wait, the harder it 00:19:28 SPEAKER_02 In regards to U .S. policy, in policy, there really is a... a desire that the United States stays around in Asia, that maintains its military might, and is able to effectively safeguard what you call freedom consensual government. Because if you go around the region, nobody wants to be dominated by the PRC. But they do have a huge advantage, particularly economically, that they're seen by leaders and business people in a lot of these countries. That's really the source of... some wealth, some prosperity. And we would do well, for example, to see the fight as just as much an economic one as a military one. Because we could build up our military, rebuild it, and we could have 800 ships in the Navy, and still lose. If we don't fight on these other fronts, we don't want you here because we're doing too much business with China. And that's where the U .S., along with its friends, the Japanese, the Koreans, the Indians, the Australians, we would do well to operate together more and to see the economic front and the political warfare fronts as a priority effort as much, if not more, than the military. 00:19:30 SPEAKER_03 in policy, there 00:19:31 JACK GAINES really is a... a desire that the United States stays around in Asia, that maintains its military might, and is able to 00:19:45 JACK GAINES Because if you go around the region, nobody wants to be dominated by the PRC. But they do have a huge advantage, particularly economically, that they're seen by leaders and business people in a lot of these countries. That's really the source of... some wealth, some prosperity. And we would do well, for example, to see the fight as just as much an economic 00:20:09 GRANT NEWSHAM one as a military one. Because we could build up our military, rebuild it, and we could have 800 ships in the Navy, and still lose. If we don't 00:20:19 JACK GAINES on these other fronts, we don't want you here because we're doing too much business with China. And that's where the U .S., along with its friends, the Japanese, the Koreans, the Indians, the Australians, 00:20:30 GRANT NEWSHAM we would do well to operate together more and to see the economic front and the political warfare fronts as a priority effort as much, if not 00:20:40 JACK GAINES more, than the 00:20:45 SPEAKER_02 They have a role to play if they're properly harnessed. But you do know that these days you don't see the Yankee trader that used to exist. You'd run to Americans everywhere trying to sell something to do business. Not so much these days. And we've almost ceded the far -flung part to the world. Because, well, the return on investment isn't enough. That's not an attractive enough proposition. Well, then let's make it one. Plus, you do have, say, the Japanese, the Indians, who are much better at operating in these places, to put it together into a coherent plan. Understand what it is, political warfare, and not just block the Chinese political warfare effort, but actually have our own campaign. And it really is worth doing some homework, I think, for a lot of people into what political warfare is. One sees the opportunities, but it takes a certain type of person who's good at it. versus a civil affairs guy. Versus a civil affairs guy. He's going to see different... He's going to see parts of the battlefield in a different way. Yes, sometimes you want the tank. But then there's this other part of it all. That is almost like a liberal arts test. Here you have to figure out the motivations for things. You have to figure out how a society works. And then how do you appeal to it using the things that are parts of political warfare? And this is where you can really make some mileage. You've got to have both. Make no mistake. If you're not able to destroy things and kill people, the civil affairs part isn't going to get you very far. But combine the two, and then you've really got something that's very hard to take on if you're the bad guys. We talk about defending Taiwan, and how important it is, and it is, I think, indispensable, that China does not take Taiwan and enslave 23 million people. If they did that... 00:20:47 JACK GAINES they're properly harnessed. But you do know that these days you don't see the Yankee trader that used to exist. You'd run to Americans everywhere trying to sell something to do business. Not 00:20:59 SPEAKER_03 so much these days. And we've almost ceded the far -flung part to the world. Because, well, the return on investment isn't enough. That's not an attractive enough proposition. Well, then let's 00:21:10 GRANT NEWSHAM make it one. Plus, you do have, say, the Japanese, the Indians, who are much better at operating in these places, to put it together into a coherent plan. Understand what it 00:21:20 JACK GAINES is, political warfare, and not just block the Chinese political warfare effort, but actually have our own campaign. And it really is worth doing some homework, I think, for a lot of people into what political warfare is. One sees the opportunities, but it takes a certain type of person who's good at it. versus a civil affairs guy. Versus a civil affairs guy. He's going to see different... He's going to see parts of the battlefield in a different way. 00:21:50 SPEAKER_03 Yes, sometimes you want the tank. But then there's this other part of it all. That is almost like a liberal arts test. Here you have to figure 00:22:00 JACK GAINES for things. You have to figure out how a society works. And then how do you appeal to it using the things that are parts of political warfare? 00:22:10 JACK GAINES make some mileage. You've got to have both. Make no mistake. If you're not able to destroy things and kill people, the civil affairs part isn't going to get you very far. But combine the two, and then you've really got something that's very hard to take on if you're the bad guys. We talk about defending Taiwan, and how important it is, and it is, I think, indispensable, 00:22:32 GRANT NEWSHAM that China does not take Taiwan and enslave 23 million people. If they did that... 00:22:39 SPEAKER_02 Asia would turn red overnight, as every country tried to cut the best deal they could. No country anywhere on Earth would have much confidence in American promises that will protect them. But one of the ways to actually defend Taiwan is, yes, they could maybe use F -35s and long -range missiles and smart pines, etc. You do have to have all of this stuff. Is it enough, 00:22:39 GRANT NEWSHAM would turn red overnight, as every country tried 00:22:42 SPEAKER_03 to cut the best deal they could. No country anywhere 00:22:46 JACK GAINES on Earth would have much confidence in American promises that will protect them. But one of the ways to actually defend 00:22:51 GRANT NEWSHAM Taiwan is, yes, they could maybe use F -35s and long -range missiles and smart pines, etc. You do have to have all of this stuff. Is it enough, even? Particularly if the other side says, okay, we'll absorb whatever you can send at us, but you're finished. But one of the ways that... But one of the ways is to give them a free trade agreement to improve their economy to the point that the government felt like it had money to spend on defense. 00:23:02 SPEAKER_02 Particularly if the other side says, okay, we'll absorb whatever you can send at us, but you're finished. But one of the ways that... But one of the ways is to give them a free trade agreement to improve their economy to the point that the government felt like it had money to spend on defense. You get a certain confidence in the entire society when they're more prosperous. Salaries are very low in Taiwan. Make it so people feel like they've got more money. Can they can buy a house? Can they can buy a condominium? build up the economy and that has a ripple effect throughout the society and on their military itself. And yet we didn't do that. And I think that's where we should apply some effort. 00:23:11 JACK GAINES give them a free trade agreement to 00:23:16 JACK GAINES point that the government felt like it had money to spend on defense. You get a certain confidence in the entire society when they're more prosperous. Salaries are very low in Taiwan. Make it so people feel like they've got more money. Can they can buy a house? Can they can buy a condominium? 00:23:35 JACK GAINES the economy and that has a ripple effect throughout the society and on their military itself. And yet we didn't do that. And I think that's where we should apply some 00:24:25 SPEAKER_02 I think you're right. And it's essential that we start to understand. You look at much of the debate about us in China. What happens when the two forces go at each other? And that's almost like... Going up behind the Waffle House. Going up behind the Waffle House. To see who's the toughest guy in Prince William County. To see who's the toughest guy in Prince William County. Out back. But think of all the things that go into whether or not the two hoodlums. There's all sorts of reasons why. No, there may

Welcome to One CA Podcast.  As we go into the holidays, the One CA brings on the show's founder, John McElligott, to talk with Brian Hancock and Jack Gaines about the show's beginnings, current updates and goals for the future. So, stay tuned.  --- One CA is a product of the civil affairs association  and brings in people who are current or former military, diplomats, development officers, and field agents to discuss their experiences on the ground with a partner nation's people and leadership. We aim to inspire anyone interested in working in the "last three feet" of U.S. foreign relations.  To contact the show, email us at CApodcasting@gmail.com  or look us up on the Civil Affairs Association website at https://www.civilaffairsassoc.org/podcast --- Episode list: Past Episodes: 202 Andrew Gonzalez on Marine Civil Affairs in the Pacific (Part II)  201 Andrew Gonzalez on Marine Civil Affairs in the Pacific (Part I)  200 Jörg Grössl on the NATO Civil-Military Cooperation Centre of Excellence  199 Jeffrey Fiddler and the U.S. Gaza Relief Mission  198 David Luna, State-sponsored criminality in strategic competition  197 Scott Mann "Nobody is Coming to Save You"  196 Jeffrey Fiddler on the DOD response to COVID 19  195 Cleo Paskal on PRC operations in Guam  194 Doug Stevens on faith-based diplomacy  193 Patrick Alley on Global Influence (Part II)  192 Patrick Alley on Global Influence (Part I)  191 Drew Biemer on Energy Sector Civil Affairs  190 Pavlo Kuktha on Ukraine Reconstruction  189 Phillip Smith in discussion with Brian Hancock  188 Part II, Mickey Bergman on Diplomacy in the Shadows  187 Part I, Mickey Bergman on Diplomacy in the Shadows  186 Major Gustavo Ferreira testifies at the U.S. China Economic and Security Review Commission.  185 Scott Mann, Life After Afghanistan  184 Megan O'Keefe-Schlesinger on Information Operations. Part II.  183 Megan O'Keefe-Schlesinger. Leading Information Operations and Influence. Part I  182 Natacha Ciezki, from Zaire to America  181 Proxy Wars, by Pawel Bernat, Juneyt Gurer, and Cyprian Kozera  180 Sandor Fabian: Europe is Learning the wrong lessons from the conflict in Ukraine  179 Civil Affairs Innovation with Colonel Brad Hughes, part II  178 Civil Affairs Innovation with Colonel Brad Hughes, part I  177 Patrick Passewitz on the Sicilian Model  176 Part II, interview with J. David Thompson  175 Part I interview with J. David Thompson  174 Direct Commissions with Heater Cotter  173 Achieving post conflict stabilization with Prof. Beatrice Heuser (Pt.2)  172 Achieving post conflict stabilization with Prof. Beatrice Heuser (Pt.1)  171 Civil Military What?  170 Combat First Aid in Ukraine by Michael Baker  169 Part II, Bas Wouters on Influence and Persuasion  168 Part I, Bas Wouters on Influence and Persuasion  167 Electronic Warfare with Michael Gudmundson  166 On Alexei Navalny and Political Dissent  165 Part II of the Courtney Mulhern and Dan Joseph interview  164 Part I, Courtney Mulhern and Dan Joseph on the book "Backpack to Rucksack"  163 Sam Cooper on China political and Economic Warfare  162 Rob Boudreau and Joel Searls  161 Curtis Fox, Part II on Russian Hybrid Warfare  160 Curtis Fox: Part I, Russian Hybrid Warfare  159 Albert Augustine and V Corps CA  158 Introducing the 1st CAG Human Dimension Podcast  157 Part II Robert Curris on Psychological Operations integration with CA and SOF  156 Part I, Robert Curris on Psychological Operations integration with CA and SOF  155 Gen (R) David Petraeus at Carnegie  154 Angie Smith, Environmental Science and Foreign Policy  153 One CA Classic. John visits AUSA  152 Dan Blumenthal and Fred Kagan  151 Dan Blumenthal and Fred Kagan  150 The WestPoint Center for the Study of Civil-Military Operations  149 Part II. Tony Vacha on Civil Affairs in Europe and Africa  148 Part I.Tony Vacha on Civil Affairs in Europe and Africa  147 Jack's first year hosting the One CA Podcast  146 Jess Langerud talks on medical diplomacy in Poland  145 Courtney Mulhern. Three tools to improve local public outreach  144 Garric Banfield on the 95th Civil Affairs Brigade  143 Richard Messick. Advising partner nations on Rule of Law and anti-corruption  142 Scott DeJesse and the new Monuments Men and Women  141 Paul Hutchinson on the film ”Sound of Freedom” and human trafficking  140 Brian Hancock interview Col. Rachael Sherrer discuss Army Europe and Africa  139 John Cassara on China's Criminal Economy  138 Part II. Joseph Long on relational leadership and military diplomacy  137 Part I. Joseph Long on relational leadership and military diplomacy  136 Joe Pastorek and the 95th CA Advanced Skills Detachment  135 Jack Gaines interview with Global Integrity  134 Calvin Chrustie on conflict and hostage negotiation  133 Part II: Afghan resettlement in the U.S.  132 Part I: Afghan resettlement in the U.S.  131 Climate and Security  130 Chris Hyslop on human rights and diplomacy  129 Special Episode: Digital Civil Reconnaissance with Carrick Longley and Stephen Hunnewell  128 128 Josh Bedingfield on Shadow Governments Part II  127 Josh Bedingfield on Shadow Governments, Part I  126 Juan Quiroz on CA leading in Competition  125 Chris Hyslop: The Peace Corps  124 Special episode. Jordan Harbinger interviews H.R. McMaster on his book ”Battlegrounds”  123 Part II 38G: Agriculture and foreign policy  122 Part I 38G: Agriculture and foreign policy  121 Korea Reunification by David Maxwell  120 Special episode. IWP: The Columbia Plan  119 Discussing the USMC, 31st MEU CA Marines  118 Part II. Integrating Civil Affairs, field operations and diplomacy, by former Under-Secretary, Michael Patrick Mulroy  117 Part I. former DASD, Michael Patrick Mulroy on Integrating Civil Affairs, field operations and diplomacy  116 Assad Raza talk-back on the Frank Sobchak interview  115 Frank Sobchak on advising and training partner nation forces  114 Special Episode from the IW Podcast: Slow Burn: How Security Cooperation shapes operational environments  113 Jodi Harman and the HillVets Foundation  112 David Maxwell on grand strategy  111 Civil Affairs and Security Cooperation with Chris Stockel  110 CSM Riccio Christmas Day Concert  109 John Hutcheson on Hiring our Heroes  108 Advertisement for the CSM Riccio holiday concert  107 Operation Joint Endeavor  106 Special episode: John McElligott passes the mic  105 Major John Burns on Ghost Team at NTC  104 Stanislava Mladenova on Civ-Mil Relationships in Low-Intensity Conflict and State Fragility  103 Benjamin Ordiway and Anthony Pfaff  102 Nick Krohley and Lt Col Stefan Muehlich on Doctrinal Comparison, Part 2  101 Nick Krohley and Lt Col Stefan Muehlich on Doctrinal Comparison, Part 1  100 Episode 100 of the One CA Podcast  99 Theater Information Advantage Element 98 Brig Gen Chris Dziubek of the 351st CACOM  97 Mark Delaney on Civil Affairs Skills for Post Military Life  96 Colonel Marco Bongioanni on Emergency Preparedness Liaison Officers  95 Maj Gen Jeff Coggin of USACAPOC(A)  94 Operation Allies Refuge: Lessons on Interagency and Multinational Collaboration  93 Vish Odedra on COVID-19 Vaccinations in the UK  92 LTC Greg Banner on Training for Unconventional Warfare  91 Chris Bryant on Social Media for CA  90 CA Issue Papers 2021 - Part 3  89 CA Issue Papers 2021 - Part 2  88 CA Issue Papers 2021 - Part 1  87 USACAPOC(A) Command Strategic Initiatives  86 Civil Affairs Interagency Panel - Part 2  85 Civil Affairs Interagency Panel - Part 1  84 Zach Hyleman and Kevin Chapla on FAO and CA  83 Civil Affairs in Regional Competition for Influence - Part 2  82 Civil Affairs in Regional Competition for Influence - Part 1  81 SFC Josh Spiers on San Pedro Sula, Honduras  80 Major Lauren Holl on San Pedro Sula, Honduras  79 Josh Bedingfield on Human Network Analysis  78 Lieutenant General Eric Wesley on Civil Competition - Part 2  77 Lieutenant General Eric Wesley on Civil Competition - Part 1  76 Maj Gen Hugh Van Roosen on a Career in SF, CA, and PSYOP  75 Brig. Gen. Jeffrey Coggin of USACAPOC(A)  74 Colonel Mattia Zuzzi of the Multinational CIMIC Group  73 Jonathan Papoulidis on Country Coordination Platforms  72 Colonel Frank van Boxmeer of NATO CCOE  71 LTC Matthias Wasinger of the Austrian Armed Forces  70 Request for Capabilities Brief Guests and Show Hosts  69 Lt Col Jahn Olson and Lt Col Korvin Kraics on III Marine Expeditionary Force  68 LTC Albert Augustine on CA Missions in Africa  67 Justin Constantine  66 John Steed of Tesla Government on GIS  65 65 Digital Civil Reconnaissance with Carrick Longley and Stephen Hunnewell  64 Joe Pastorek on the 95th Civil Affairs Brigade's Advanced Skills Detachment  63 Lauren Ladenson, Lieutenant Colonel Matt Holmes, and Lieutenant Colonel Kyle Kouri on Defense Support to Stabilization (DSS)  62 CPT Al Oh and SGM Chris Melendez discuss Civil Reconnaissance  61 Dr. E. Casey Wardynski, ASA (M&RA) on Talent Management  60 LTC Scott Dickerson on the Army CA Force Modernization Assessment  59 MAJ Ashley Holzmann on the History of US Propaganda and Psychological Operations  58 Doowan Lee on Innovating Influence Intelligence  57 LTC Marco Bongioanni on the International Visitor Leadership Program  56 Paul Giannone on CA in Vietnam and his Career in Public Health  55 LTC Jeff Uherka and COL Steve Barry of Joint Task Force - Bravo  54 John Barsa, Acting Administrator of USAID  53 Dr. Ajit Maan - Narrative Warfare  52 Karen Walsh and Bron Morrison of Dexis Consulting  51 Intergrating Civil Affairs, with MAJ Brian Hancock and Dr. Timothy Darr  50 COL Steve Battle on CA Support for the COVID-19 Outbreak in Korea  49 LTC Rachel Sullivan and MAJ Mike Karlson on CA during the COVID-19 Pandemic in Korea  48 Dr. Lynn Copeland on the Future of Civil Information Management  47 Letting the CAT out of the Bag Part 2  46 Letting the CAT out of the Bag, Part 1  45 MAJ Ian Duke on the need for a Civil Knowledge Battalion  44 MAJ James Ontiveros discusses Civil Affairs and Megacities  43 Captains Chapla, Micciche, and Staron on Storyboards as the TPS Reports of the Army  42 LTC Sue Gannon on Leading the 450th CA Battalion  41 Sean McFate on the New Rules of War, Part 2  40 Sean McFate on the New Rules of War, Part 1  39 Abubakr Elnoor on Darfur and Terrorist Recruitment  38 Devin Conley on the National Training Center  37 General Anthony Zinni on a Unified, Interagency Command  36 Garric Banfield on the 95th Civil Affairs Brigade  35 Justin Richmond on the Impl. Project  34 Alexandra Lamarche on Internally Displaced People in Cameroon  33 Jamie Schwandt on Swarm Intelligence, Swarm Learning, and Red Teams  32 Jay Liddick and Scott Dickerson on the CA Force Modernization Assessment  31 Narayan Khadka on Nepal, castes, and community trauma  30 Jay Liddick and Scott Dickerson on CA in Large Scale Combat Operations  29 Giancarlo Newsome and Jesse Elmore on Military Government Specialists  28 Nicholas Krohley on Human Terrain and CA Integration  27 Dale Yeager with Travel Safety Tips  26 Cori Wegener on Cultural Heritage Preservation  25 Major General Darrell Guthrie of USACAPOC(A)  24 Kwadjo Owusu-Sarfo on Ghana and Boko Haram  23 Manya Dotson on Life in the NGO Community  22 Wyatt Hughes Trains the Central Readiness Force of Japan  21 Bonus episode with Ryan McCannell of USAID  20 Ryan McCannell of USAID on the Evolution of CA in Sub-Saharan African  19 Arnel David on Strategy in the 21st Century  18 Michael Coates and Mark Grimes, Startup Radio Network  17 Max Steiner and Mazi Markel, CA Issue Paper  16 Diana Parzik, USAID Office of Civilian-Military Cooperation  15 Will Ibrahim, S-9 of 2/1 CAV  14 What is Civil Affairs - AUSA Answers  13 Scott Fisher and Information Operations  12 Aleks Nesic and James Patrick Christian of Valka-Mir  11 Norm Cotton of the Institute for Defense Analyses  10 Kevin Melton, USAID Office of Transition Initiatives  9 Dr. Larry Hufford discusses the 20th Anniversary of the Good Friday Agreement in Northern Ireland  8 Valor Breez and Jarrett Redman on "Beyond Hearts and Minds"  7 John Stefula and PKSOI  6 Michael Schwille, Iraq and Djibouti and RAND  5 Gonul Tol, Middle East Institute, on Turkey  4 Roberto Carmack, PhD, on Russian actions  3 Sean Acosta, Instructor, USAJFKSWCS  2 Valerie Jackson, 4th CA Group, USMC  1 Jon May: Artificial Intelligence for HA/DR Operations - LORELEI  --- Special thanks to Cool Jazz Hot Bassa for sampling music in their  album, Energy Jazz Playlist. Retrieved at: https://youtu.be/bdWUj2NYDYQ?si=00ylFfJ6DhGCwPsO

Welcome to One CA Podcast.  As we go into the holidays, the One CA brings on the show's founder, John McElligott, to talk with Brian Hancock and Jack Gaines about the show's beginnings, current updates and goals for the future. So, stay tuned.  --- One CA is a product of the civil affairs association  and brings in people who are current or former military, diplomats, development officers, and field agents to discuss their experiences on the ground with a partner nation's people and leadership. We aim to inspire anyone interested in working in the "last three feet" of U.S. foreign relations.  To contact the show, email us at CApodcasting@gmail.com  or look us up on the Civil Affairs Association website at www civilaffairsassoc.org   --- Past Episodes: 202 Andrew Gonzalez on Marine Civil Affairs in the Pacific (Part II)  201 Andrew Gonzalez on Marine Civil Affairs in the Pacific (Part I)  200 Jörg Grössl on the NATO Civil-Military Cooperation Centre of Excellence  199 Jeffrey Fiddler and the U.S. Gaza Relief Mission  198 David Luna, State-sponsored criminality in strategic competition  197 Scott Mann "Nobody is Coming to Save You"  196 Jeffrey Fiddler on the DOD response to COVID 19  195 Cleo Paskal on PRC operations in Guam  194 Doug Stevens on faith-based diplomacy  193 Patrick Alley on Global Influence (Part II)  192 Patrick Alley on Global Influence (Part I)  191 Drew Biemer on Energy Sector Civil Affairs  190 Pavlo Kuktha on Ukraine Reconstruction  189 Phillip Smith in discussion with Brian Hancock  188 Part II, Mickey Bergman on Diplomacy in the Shadows  187 Part I, Mickey Bergman on Diplomacy in the Shadows  186 Major Gustavo Ferreira testifies at the U.S. China Economic and Security Review Commission.  185 Scott Mann, Life After Afghanistan  184 Megan O'Keefe-Schlesinger on Information Operations. Part II.  183 Megan O'Keefe-Schlesinger. Leading Information Operations and Influence. Part I  182 Natacha Ciezki, from Zaire to America  181 Proxy Wars, by Pawel Bernat, Juneyt Gurer, and Cyprian Kozera  180 Sandor Fabian: Europe is Learning the wrong lessons from the conflict in Ukraine  179 Civil Affairs Innovation with Colonel Brad Hughes, part II  178 Civil Affairs Innovation with Colonel Brad Hughes, part I  177 Patrick Passewitz on the Sicilian Model  176 Part II, interview with J. David Thompson  175 Part I interview with J. David Thompson  174 Direct Commissions with Heater Cotter  173 Achieving post conflict stabilization with Prof. Beatrice Heuser (Pt.2)  172 Achieving post conflict stabilization with Prof. Beatrice Heuser (Pt.1)  171 Civil Military What?  170 Combat First Aid in Ukraine by Michael Baker  169 Part II, Bas Wouters on Influence and Persuasion  168 Part I, Bas Wouters on Influence and Persuasion  167 Electronic Warfare with Michael Gudmundson  166 On Alexei Navalny and Political Dissent  165 Part II of the Courtney Mulhern and Dan Joseph interview  164 Part I, Courtney Mulhern and Dan Joseph on the book "Backpack to Rucksack"  163 Sam Cooper on China political and Economic Warfare  162 Rob Boudreau and Joel Searls  161 Curtis Fox, Part II on Russian Hybrid Warfare  160 Curtis Fox: Part I, Russian Hybrid Warfare  159 Albert Augustine and V Corps CA  158 Introducing the 1st CAG Human Dimension Podcast  157 Part II Robert Curris on Psychological Operations integration with CA and SOF  156 Part I, Robert Curris on Psychological Operations integration with CA and SOF  155 Gen (R) David Petraeus at Carnegie  154 Angie Smith, Environmental Science and Foreign Policy  153 One CA Classic. John visits AUSA  152 Dan Blumenthal and Fred Kagan  151 Dan Blumenthal and Fred Kagan  150 The WestPoint Center for the Study of Civil-Military Operations  149 Part II. Tony Vacha on Civil Affairs in Europe and Africa  148 Part I.Tony Vacha on Civil Affairs in Europe and Africa  147 Jack's first year hosting the One CA Podcast  146 Jess Langerud talks on medical diplomacy in Poland  145 Courtney Mulhern. Three tools to improve local public outreach  144 Garric Banfield on the 95th Civil Affairs Brigade  143 Richard Messick. Advising partner nations on Rule of Law and anti-corruption  142 Scott DeJesse and the new Monuments Men and Women  141 Paul Hutchinson on the film ”Sound of Freedom” and human trafficking  140 Brian Hancock interview Col. Rachael Sherrer discuss Army Europe and Africa  139 John Cassara on China's Criminal Economy  138 Part II. Joseph Long on relational leadership and military diplomacy  137 Part I. Joseph Long on relational leadership and military diplomacy  136 Joe Pastorek and the 95th CA Advanced Skills Detachment  135 Jack Gaines interview with Global Integrity  134 Calvin Chrustie on conflict and hostage negotiation  133 Part II: Afghan resettlement in the U.S.  132 Part I: Afghan resettlement in the U.S.  131 Climate and Security  130 Chris Hyslop on human rights and diplomacy  129 Special Episode: Digital Civil Reconnaissance with Carrick Longley and Stephen Hunnewell  128 128 Josh Bedingfield on Shadow Governments Part II  127 Josh Bedingfield on Shadow Governments, Part I  126 Juan Quiroz on CA leading in Competition  125 Chris Hyslop: The Peace Corps  124 Special episode. Jordan Harbinger interviews H.R. McMaster on his book ”Battlegrounds”  123 Part II 38G: Agriculture and foreign policy  122 Part I 38G: Agriculture and foreign policy  121 Korea Reunification by David Maxwell  120 Special episode. IWP: The Columbia Plan  119 Discussing the USMC, 31st MEU CA Marines  118 Part II. Integrating Civil Affairs, field operations and diplomacy, by former Under-Secretary, Michael Patrick Mulroy  117 Part I. former DASD, Michael Patrick Mulroy on Integrating Civil Affairs, field operations and diplomacy  116 Assad Raza talk-back on the Frank Sobchak interview  115 Frank Sobchak on advising and training partner nation forces  114 Special Episode from the IW Podcast: Slow Burn: How Security Cooperation shapes operational environments  113 Jodi Harman and the HillVets Foundation  112 David Maxwell on grand strategy  111 Civil Affairs and Security Cooperation with Chris Stockel  110 CSM Riccio Christmas Day Concert  109 John Hutcheson on Hiring our Heroes  108 Advertisement for the CSM Riccio holiday concert  107 Operation Joint Endeavor  106 Special episode: John McElligott passes the mic  105 Major John Burns on Ghost Team at NTC  104 Stanislava Mladenova on Civ-Mil Relationships in Low-Intensity Conflict and State Fragility  103 Benjamin Ordiway and Anthony Pfaff  102 Nick Krohley and Lt Col Stefan Muehlich on Doctrinal Comparison, Part 2  101 Nick Krohley and Lt Col Stefan Muehlich on Doctrinal Comparison, Part 1  100 Episode 100 of the One CA Podcast  99 Theater Information Advantage Element 98 Brig Gen Chris Dziubek of the 351st CACOM  97 Mark Delaney on Civil Affairs Skills for Post Military Life  96 Colonel Marco Bongioanni on Emergency Preparedness Liaison Officers  95 Maj Gen Jeff Coggin of USACAPOC(A)  94 Operation Allies Refuge: Lessons on Interagency and Multinational Collaboration  93 Vish Odedra on COVID-19 Vaccinations in the UK  92 LTC Greg Banner on Training for Unconventional Warfare  91 Chris Bryant on Social Media for CA  90 CA Issue Papers 2021 - Part 3  89 CA Issue Papers 2021 - Part 2  88 CA Issue Papers 2021 - Part 1  87 USACAPOC(A) Command Strategic Initiatives  86 Civil Affairs Interagency Panel - Part 2  85 Civil Affairs Interagency Panel - Part 1  84 Zach Hyleman and Kevin Chapla on FAO and CA  83 Civil Affairs in Regional Competition for Influence - Part 2  82 Civil Affairs in Regional Competition for Influence - Part 1  81 SFC Josh Spiers on San Pedro Sula, Honduras  80 Major Lauren Holl on San Pedro Sula, Honduras  79 Josh Bedingfield on Human Network Analysis  78 Lieutenant General Eric Wesley on Civil Competition - Part 2  77 Lieutenant General Eric Wesley on Civil Competition - Part 1  76 Maj Gen Hugh Van Roosen on a Career in SF, CA, and PSYOP  75 Brig. Gen. Jeffrey Coggin of USACAPOC(A)  74 Colonel Mattia Zuzzi of the Multinational CIMIC Group  73 Jonathan Papoulidis on Country Coordination Platforms  72 Colonel Frank van Boxmeer of NATO CCOE  71 LTC Matthias Wasinger of the Austrian Armed Forces  70 Request for Capabilities Brief Guests and Show Hosts  69 Lt Col Jahn Olson and Lt Col Korvin Kraics on III Marine Expeditionary Force  68 LTC Albert Augustine on CA Missions in Africa  67 Justin Constantine  66 John Steed of Tesla Government on GIS  65 65 Digital Civil Reconnaissance with Carrick Longley and Stephen Hunnewell  64 Joe Pastorek on the 95th Civil Affairs Brigade's Advanced Skills Detachment  63 Lauren Ladenson, Lieutenant Colonel Matt Holmes, and Lieutenant Colonel Kyle Kouri on Defense Support to Stabilization (DSS)  62 CPT Al Oh and SGM Chris Melendez discuss Civil Reconnaissance  61 Dr. E. Casey Wardynski, ASA (M&RA) on Talent Management  60 LTC Scott Dickerson on the Army CA Force Modernization Assessment  59 MAJ Ashley Holzmann on the History of US Propaganda and Psychological Operations  58 Doowan Lee on Innovating Influence Intelligence  57 LTC Marco Bongioanni on the International Visitor Leadership Program  56 Paul Giannone on CA in Vietnam and his Career in Public Health  55 LTC Jeff Uherka and COL Steve Barry of Joint Task Force - Bravo  54 John Barsa, Acting Administrator of USAID  53 Dr. Ajit Maan - Narrative Warfare  52 Karen Walsh and Bron Morrison of Dexis Consulting  51 Intergrating Civil Affairs, with MAJ Brian Hancock and Dr. Timothy Darr  50 COL Steve Battle on CA Support for the COVID-19 Outbreak in Korea  49 LTC Rachel Sullivan and MAJ Mike Karlson on CA during the COVID-19 Pandemic in Korea  48 Dr. Lynn Copeland on the Future of Civil Information Management  47 Letting the CAT out of the Bag Part 2  46 Letting the CAT out of the Bag, Part 1  45 MAJ Ian Duke on the need for a Civil Knowledge Battalion  44 MAJ James Ontiveros discusses Civil Affairs and Megacities  43 Captains Chapla, Micciche, and Staron on Storyboards as the TPS Reports of the Army  42 LTC Sue Gannon on Leading the 450th CA Battalion  41 Sean McFate on the New Rules of War, Part 2  40 Sean McFate on the New Rules of War, Part 1  39 Abubakr Elnoor on Darfur and Terrorist Recruitment  38 Devin Conley on the National Training Center  37 General Anthony Zinni on a Unified, Interagency Command  36 Garric Banfield on the 95th Civil Affairs Brigade  35 Justin Richmond on the Impl. Project  34 Alexandra Lamarche on Internally Displaced People in Cameroon  33 Jamie Schwandt on Swarm Intelligence, Swarm Learning, and Red Teams  32 Jay Liddick and Scott Dickerson on the CA Force Modernization Assessment  31 Narayan Khadka on Nepal, castes, and community trauma  30 Jay Liddick and Scott Dickerson on CA in Large Scale Combat Operations  29 Giancarlo Newsome and Jesse Elmore on Military Government Specialists  28 Nicholas Krohley on Human Terrain and CA Integration  27 Dale Yeager with Travel Safety Tips  26 Cori Wegener on Cultural Heritage Preservation  25 Major General Darrell Guthrie of USACAPOC(A)  24 Kwadjo Owusu-Sarfo on Ghana and Boko Haram  23 Manya Dotson on Life in the NGO Community  22 Wyatt Hughes Trains the Central Readiness Force of Japan  21 Bonus episode with Ryan McCannell of USAID  20 Ryan McCannell of USAID on the Evolution of CA in Sub-Saharan African  19 Arnel David on Strategy in the 21st Century  18 Michael Coates and Mark Grimes, Startup Radio Network  17 Max Steiner and Mazi Markel, CA Issue Paper  16 Diana Parzik, USAID Office of Civilian-Military Cooperation  15 Will Ibrahim, S-9 of 2/1 CAV  14 What is Civil Affairs - AUSA Answers  13 Scott Fisher and Information Operations  12 Aleks Nesic and James Patrick Christian of Valka-Mir  11 Norm Cotton of the Institute for Defense Analyses  10 Kevin Melton, USAID Office of Transition Initiatives  9 Dr. Larry Hufford discusses the 20th Anniversary of the Good Friday Agreement in Northern Ireland  8 Valor Breez and Jarrett Redman on "Beyond Hearts and Minds"  7 John Stefula and PKSOI  6 Michael Schwille, Iraq and Djibouti and RAND  5 Gonul Tol, Middle East Institute, on Turkey  4 Roberto Carmack, PhD, on Russian actions  3 Sean Acosta, Instructor, USAJFKSWCS  2 Valerie Jackson, 4th CA Group, USMC  1 Jon May: Artificial Intelligence for HA/DR Operations - LORELEI  --- Special thanks to Cool Jazz Hot Bassa for sampling music in their  album, Energy Jazz Playlist. Retrieved at: https://youtu.be/bdWUj2NYDYQ?si=00ylFfJ6DhGCwPsO

Today, we welcome Rocco Santurri, who wrote "Spoils of the Status Quo," an article that describes the current stalemate in Korea as the best option for the international community.   Spoils of the status quo: https://divergentoptions.org/category/writers/rocco-p-santurri-iii/ Other points in the discussion 1-Beginning with the historical and current foundations of KJU's legitimacy as Supreme Leader, how those could be degraded, and which internal groups could exploit that degradation. Given KJU needs the US “threat” to substantiate his narrative to his domestic audience, how de-escalating tensions through de-escalatory IO works against the KJU regime. 2-Expanding bilateral and trilateral relationships, and/or new relationships with NATO countries or the bloc itself to offset increased Russian influence in the region (more of a Eurasian Theatre-outlook, versus EUCOM and PACOM). 3-The rapidly expanding relationship between RUS/DPRK also presents an opening for the US; DPRK is still heavily dependent on China, especially economically, far more than any other country.  China might be receptive to assisting US efforts to remind RUS/DRPK of their standing as lesser powers in the region.   4-The dream of denuclearization might need to die; it is very difficult to imagine a scenario in which KJU would voluntarily agree to any level denuclearization, and even if so, proof of compliance would be problematic. Taking that off the table could advance other foreign policy efforts, many of which it currently inhibits. --- One CA is a product of the civil affairs association  and brings in people who are current or former military, diplomats, development officers, and field agents to discuss their experiences on the ground with a partner nation's people and leadership. We aim to inspire anyone interested in working in the "last three feet" of U.S. foreign relations.  To contact the show, email us at CApodcasting@gmail.com  or look us up on the Civil Affairs Association website at www civilaffairsassoc.org --- Music by  Escape One  Best of Japanese Jazz Fusion and Japanese Jazz Funk with Japanese Jazz and Japanese Jazz Music Retrieved from: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z64nA4F_pbQ

Welcome. Today, we bring Dr. Stanislava Mladenova to discuss the NATO CIMIC Foresight Conference.  Book: Rambo Meets the Red Cross. Found at: https://rowman.com/ISBN/9781538187722/When-Rambo-Meets-the-Red-Cross-Civil-Military-Engagement-in-Fragile-States --- One CA is a product of the civil affairs association  and brings in people who are current or former military, diplomats, development officers, and field agents to discuss their experiences on the ground with a partner nation's people and leadership. We aim to inspire anyone interested in working in the "last three feet" of U.S. foreign relations.  To contact the show, email us at CApodcasting@gmail.com  or look us up on the Civil Affairs Association website at www civilaffairsassoc.org --- Special thanks to Ambience Lord for the sample of OKTOBERFEST Music  Retrieved from: https://youtu.be/Kb_lr32vcrk?si=_V4vM_4BBv2zNxY2

Welcome to One CA Podcast. Today, Brian Hancock talks with Master Sergeant Andrew Gonzalez about how the Marine Corps modernization is shifting Civil Affairs' roles and duties in the force and how those changes impact their work in the Pacific. MSgt Andrew Gonzalez joined the USMC-CA community in October 2015 as an E7. CA activations of note include OCT 2017 CJTF-OIR, clear and hold Mosul after displacing ISIS, DEC 2021 in support of Operation Allies Welcome operating out of Fort Pickett, VA, a rare opportunity to support a Defense Support of Civil Authorities mission. MSgt Gonzalez was most recently activated in support of JTF-Red Hill, the safe and expedient refueling of the underground fuel storage facility on the island of Oahu. Allowed to meet with the Waianae Kupuna Council to discuss the transition from JTF-Red Hill leadership and mission to the Red Hill – Navy Closure Task Force. MSgt Gonzalez has supported 1st Civil Affairs Group for nearly 10 years and continues to drive USA-USMC CA collaborative efforts, civil information management best practice, and USMC - Civil Military Operations training standards in direct response to OSD/INDOPACOM/MARFORPAC/IMEF demand for CA and Civic Action Team support. --- One CA is a product of the civil affairs association  and brings in people who are current or former military, diplomats, development officers, and field agents to discuss their experiences on the ground with a partner nation's people and leadership. We aim to inspire anyone interested in working in the "last three feet" of U.S. foreign relations.  To contact the show, email us at CApodcasting@gmail.com  or look us up on the Civil Affairs Association website at www civilaffairsassoc.org --- Special Thanks to "Cool Jazz Hot Bossa" for the sample of Energy Jazz Music Playlist - Jazz Instrumental Upbeat - High Energy Jazz Music Mix. Retrieved from: https://youtu.be/bdWUj2NYDYQ?si=_bLf2fdTw6Ba93oh

Welcome to One CA Podcast. Today, Brian Hancock talks with Master Sergeant Andrew Gonzalez about how the Marine Corps' modernization is shifting Civil Affairs' roles and duties in the force and how those changes impact their work in the Pacific. MSgt Andrew Gonzalez joined the USMC-CA community in October 2015 as an E7. CA activations of note include OCT 2017 CJTF-OIR, clear and hold Mosul after displacing ISIS, DEC 2021 in support of Operation Allies Welcome operating out of Fort Pickett, VA, a rare opportunity to support a Defense Support of Civil Authorities mission. MSgt Gonzalez was most recently activated in support of JTF-Red Hill, the safe and expedient refueling of the underground fuel storage facility on the island of Oahu. Allowed to meet with the Waianae Kupuna Council to discuss the transition from JTF-Red Hill leadership and mission to the Red Hill – Navy Closure Task Force. MSgt Gonzalez has supported 1st Civil Affairs Group for nearly 10 years and continues to drive USA-USMC CA collaborative efforts, civil information management best practice, and USMC - Civil Military Operations training standards in direct response to OSD/INDOPACOM/MARFORPAC/IMEF demand for CA and Civic Action Team support. --- One CA is a product of the civil affairs association  and brings in people who are current or former military, diplomats, development officers, and field agents to discuss their experiences on the ground with a partner nation's people and leadership. We aim to inspire anyone interested in working in the "last three feet" of U.S. foreign relations.  To contact the show, email us at CApodcasting@gmail.com  or look us up on the Civil Affairs Association website at www civilaffairsassoc.org --- Special Thanks to "Cool Jazz Hot Bossa" for the sample of Energy Jazz Music Playlist - Jazz Instrumental Upbeat - High Energy Jazz Music Mix. Retrieved from: https://youtu.be/bdWUj2NYDYQ?si=_bLf2fdTw6Ba93oh

Welcome to the One CA Podcast. Today, Commander Jörg Grössl from the NATO Civil-Military Cooperation Centre of Excellence will discuss the center's contribution to the maritime domain. From research, I found that 80 percent of the world's population lives near a coast, and 90 percent of world's trade is carried by ships. So, we are bringing in Commander Grössl to discuss the CIMIC role in the maritime environment and cooperation with Government and Non-Governmental Organizations to build awareness and mitigate the potential impact of military operations at sea or in the littoral regions. --- One CA is a product of the civil affairs association  and brings in people who are current or former military, diplomats, development officers, and field agents to discuss their experiences on the ground with a partner nation's people and leadership. We aim to inspire anyone interested in working in the "last three feet" of U.S. foreign relations.  To contact the show, email us at CApodcasting@gmail.com  or look us up on the Civil Affairs Association website at www civilaffairsassoc.org Music  Afternoon Lounge Jazz - Relaxing Jazz Music for Work & Study https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IRyJe-0Uie0

Today, Brian Hancock hosts Col. Jeffrey Fiddler to discuss his work helping manage the DOD response to the Gaza relief mission. --- One CA is a product of the civil affairs association  and brings in people who are current or former military, diplomats, development officers, and field agents to discuss their experiences on the ground with a partner nation's people and leadership. We aim to inspire anyone interested in working in the "last three feet" of U.S. foreign relations.  To contact the show, email us at CApodcasting@gmail.com  or look us up on the Civil Affairs Association website at www civilaffairsassoc.org --- Special thanks to Natalia Lafourcade for the sample of  Tú Sí Sabes Quererme (En Manos de Los Macorinos). Retrieved from https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ABLT6hdgEek

In this episode, Mariah Yager is interviewing David Luna and Jack Gaines as they discuss how adversaries use criminality to achieve their foreign policy goals while removing U.S. influence and capability.  The interview is based on a presentation at SMA (Strategic Multilayer Assessment), an online Pentagon forum. Link to the show and resources: https://nsiteam.com/smaspeakerseries_22august2024/  --- One CA is a product of the civil affairs association  and brings in people who are current or former military, diplomats, development officers, and field agents to discuss their experiences on the ground with a partner nation's people and leadership. We aim to inspire anyone interested in working in the "last three feet" of U.S. foreign relations.  To contact the show, email us at CApodcasting@gmail.com  or look us up on the Civil Affairs Association website at www civilaffairsassoc.org --- Special thanks to the Epidemic Blues channel for the sample of Peter Crosby - Jailhouse Blues. Retrieved from https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zuyc-bIjQ10 

Today, we welcome back the author, actor, public speaker, Ret. Lt Colonel Scott Mann to discuss his new book "Nobody is Coming to Save You" https://scottmann.com/ The website Nobody is Coming to Save You is a practical guide for leaders who want to make a bigger impact in the world now. It distills what I've learned over my three-decade career as a Green Beret into strategies you can use to lead others through hard change. These are the same tactics Green Berets use to get vital stuff done when stakes are high and conditions impossible. You'll also learn about human behavior, strategic influence and dynamic storytelling because relationships are rocket fuel for getting big sh*t done. --- One CA is a product of the civil affairs association  and brings in people who are current or former military, diplomats, development officers, and field agents to discuss their experiences on the ground with a partner nation's people and leadership. We aim to inspire anyone interested in working in the "last three feet" of U.S. foreign relations.  To contact the show, email us at CApodcasting@gmail.com  or look us up on the Civil Affairs Association website at www civilaffairsassoc.org --- Special thanks to Ahimsaz for the sample of “Shahamat." Retrieved from https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1wmoH-fHhwQ

Today, Brain Hancock hosts Col. Jeffrey Fiddler to discuss his career and his experience at the Pentagon helping manage the DOD response to the COVID 19 outbreak.   --- One CA is a product of the civil affairs association  and brings in people who are current or former military, diplomats, development officers, and field agents to discuss their experiences on the ground with a partner nation's people and leadership. We aim to inspire anyone interested in working in the "last three feet" of U.S. foreign relations.  To contact the show, email us at CApodcasting@gmail.com  or look us up on the Civil Affairs Association website at www civilaffairsassoc.org --- Special thanks to Natalia Lafourcade for the sample of  Tú Sí Sabes Quererme (En Manos de Los Macorinos). Retrieved from https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ABLT6hdgEek

Today, we welcome Cleo Paskal, Senior Fellow, Foundation for Defense of Democracies and a frequent lecturer for the U.S. military about the Indo-Pacific region. Cleo came in to discuss the PRC's efforts to infiltrate Guam and the regional islands to undermine US relationships with those communities, the threat it creates to national security, and how we need to do to respond.  --- One CA is a product of the civil affairs association  and brings in people who are current or former military, diplomats, development officers, and field agents to discuss their experiences on the ground with a partner nation's people and leadership. We aim to inspire anyone interested in working in the "last three feet" of U.S. foreign relations.  To contact the show, email us at CApodcasting@gmail.com  or look us up on the Civil Affairs Association website at www civilaffairsassoc.org -- Special thanks to Noel Flores for the sample of the Album Eat Your Greens and song Anger Management by Anita  Schwab on his channel Jazz of the South Pacific. Retrieved from https://youtu.be/zfRUrnNhwfs?si=Afcsham-r5Gjnjaj 

Today Brian Hancock interviews Patrick Stevens who is an expeditionary pastor, working faith-based diplomacy to improve international relations. The discussion is on his work travelling to partner nations to reach out to locals and leaders to overcome social trauma from war, genocide and help rebuild communities.    Patrick Alley: Global Witness: https://www.globalwitness.org/ Book, Terrible Humans: https://www.hachette.co.uk/titles/patrick-alley/terrible-humans/9781800962385/  Book, Very Bad People: https://www.globalwitness.org/en/blog/very-bad-people-inside-story-fight-against-corruption/ Ted Talk: https://youtu.be/lUIrYBtkfl4  --- One CA is a product of the civil affairs association  and brings in people who are current or former military, diplomats, development officers, and field agents to discuss their experiences on the ground with a partner nation's people and leadership. We aim to inspire anyone interested in working in the "last three feet" of U.S. foreign relations.  To contact the show, email us at CApodcasting@gmail.com  or look us up on the Civil Affairs Association website at www civilaffairsassoc.org Links mentioned: Hope international ministries: Hope4nations.org --- Special thanks to Dimitar Dodovski for sampling Keith Jarrett's album Spirits 20. Retrieved from https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Yeh7OX5m4E --- Host: Brian Hancock Edits: Jack Gaines  

Today we welcome Patrick Alley, co-founder of Global Witness.  Patrick Alley and his team at Global Witness are credited with countering multiple autocrats and kleptocrats worldwide. The most notable is collapsing the Khmer Rouge by exposing the illegal timber trade that was bankrolling the rebels. They created the Blood Diamond campaign to counter the De Beers diamond cartel and multiple rebel groups in Africa that used the conflict to fund some of the most brutal civil wars in the late 1990s.  Their findings were also critical for getting the UN Security Council to impose sanctions on Charles Taylor in Liberia and trials for crimes against humanity.  Patrick and Global Witness conducted similar operations in Europe and the Americas before he retired and published his first book, Very Bad People in 2022, and now his second book, Terrible Humans, which is available online and will be in bookstores around mid-August. This is part two of a two part episode with Mariah Yager from SMA to cohost the discussion on DOD Integrated Influence.  Patrick Alley: Global Witness: https://www.globalwitness.org/ Book, Terrible Humans: https://www.hachette.co.uk/titles/patrick-alley/terrible-humans/9781800962385/  Book, Very Bad People: https://www.globalwitness.org/en/blog/very-bad-people-inside-story-fight-against-corruption/ Ted Talk: https://youtu.be/lUIrYBtkfl4  SMA version of the interview: SMA version of the interview: https://nsiteam.com/smaspeakerseries_31july2024/  --- One CA is a product of the civil affairs association  and brings in people who are current or former military, diplomats, development officers, and field agents to discuss their experiences on the ground with a partner nation's people and leadership. We aim to inspire anyone interested in working in the "last three feet" of U.S. foreign relations.  To contact the show, email us at CApodcasting@gmail.com  or look us up on the Civil Affairs Association website at www civilaffairsassoc.org --- Special thanks to the Juanes Channel for the intro sample of Desde Que Despierto Hasta Que Duermo. Retrieved from: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nZCeqUVeRMU

Today we welcome Patrick Alley, co-founder of Global Witness.  Patrick Alley and his team at Global Witness are credited with countering multiple autocrats and kleptocrats worldwide. The most notable is collapsing the Khmer Rouge by exposing the illegal timber trade that was bankrolling the rebels. They created the Blood Diamond campaign to counter the De Beers diamond cartel and multiple rebel groups in Africa that used the conflict to fund some of the most brutal civil wars in the late 1990s.  Their findings were also critical for getting the UN Security Council to impose sanctions on Charles Taylor in Liberia and trials for crimes against humanity.  Patrick and Global Witness conducted similar operations in Europe and the Americas before he retired and published his first book, Very Bad People in 2022, and now his second book, Terrible Humans, which is available online and will be in bookstores around mid-August. This is a two part episode. Next week we bring in Mariah Yager from SMA to cohost the discussion on DOD Integrated Influence. So, stay tuned.  LInks: Today we welcome Patrick Alley, co-founder of Global Witness.  Patrick Alley and his team at Global Witness are credited with countering multiple autocrats and kleptocrats worldwide. The most notable is collapsing the Khmer Rouge by exposing the illegal timber trade that was bankrolling the rebels. They created the Blood Diamond campaign to counter the De Beers diamond cartel and multiple rebel groups in Africa that used the conflict to fund some of the most brutal civil wars in the late 1990s.  Their findings were also critical for getting the UN Security Council to impose sanctions on Charles Taylor in Liberia and trials for crimes against humanity.  Patrick and Global Witness conducted similar operations in Europe and the Americas before he retired and published his first book, Very Bad People in 2022, and now his second book, Terrible Humans, which is available online and will be in bookstores around mid-August. This is part two of a two part episode with Mariah Yager from SMA to cohost the discussion on DOD Integrated Influence.  Patrick Alley: Global Witness: https://www.globalwitness.org/ Book, Terrible Humans: https://www.hachette.co.uk/titles/patrick-alley/terrible-humans/9781800962385/  Book, Very Bad People: https://www.globalwitness.org/en/blog/very-bad-people-inside-story-fight-against-corruption/ Ted Talk: https://youtu.be/lUIrYBtkfl4  SMA version of the interview: https://nsiteam.com/smaspeakerseries_31july2024/  --- One CA is a product of the civil affairs association  and brings in people who are current or former military, diplomats, development officers, and field agents to discuss their experiences on the ground with a partner nation's people and leadership. We aim to inspire anyone interested in working in the "last three feet" of U.S. foreign relations.  To contact the show, email us at CApodcasting@gmail.com  or look us up on the Civil Affairs Association website at www civilaffairsassoc.org --- Special thanks to the Juanes Channel for the intro sample of Desde Que Despierto Hasta Que Duermo. Retrieved from: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nZCeqUVeRMU

Today, Assad Raza interviews Drew Biemer, an energy outreach strategist and senior advisor to the New Hampshire Public Utilities Commission. Drew has experience leading domestic and international campaigns to support energy sector projects and came on the show to discuss how Civil and Public Affairs are key to building positive relationships between projects and the population.  --- One CA is a product of the civil affairs association  and brings in people who are current or former military, diplomats, development officers, and field agents to discuss their experiences on the ground with a partner nation's people and leadership. We aim to inspire anyone interested in working in the "last three feet" of U.S. foreign relations.  To contact the show, email us at CApodcasting@gmail.com  or look us up on the Civil Affairs Association website at www civilaffairsassoc.org --- Special Thanks to Sahraoui and Fadela for providing the sample of "Mani" from the album Arabic Groove. Retrieved from: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rCJI52eWDLw&list=PLloxRkIwt8TNujJnQFxjH7kJ0yjKJkpeg&index=7 --- Credits: Host: Assad Raza Showrunner: Jack Gaines  

Today, we welcome Pavlo Kukhta, Ukrainian Economist and Special Advisor on Reconstruction. Additionally, Mariah Yager from SMA joined me as cohost of the conversation.  We brought in Pavlo to discuss the current state of conflict reconstruction, the strategy for post-conflict reconstruction, and how to overcome challenges like balancing government oversight with designing a system that removes major corruption while managing Ukraine's transition into the EU.  I set up this interview because I know that many diplomats, aid workers, and servicemembers are focused on helping Ukraine now and after the conflict. --- One CA is a product of the civil affairs association  and brings in people who are current or former military, diplomats, development officers, and field agents to discuss their experiences on the ground with a partner nation's people and leadership. We aim to inspire anyone interested in working in the "last three feet" of U.S. foreign relations.  To contact the show, email us at CApodcasting@gmail.com  or look us up on the Civil Affairs Association website at www civilaffairsassoc.org --- Pavlo's info: https://ua.linkedin.com/in/pavlo-kukhta-93190091  SMA version of the interview: https://nsiteam.com/smaspeakerseries_20june2024/  Special Thanks to Jamming Edward for the music sample. Retrieved from: https://youtu.be/lRboIm0tlqE?si=be0Mai-k4EsIQr3h

Welcome to One CA Podcast. Today, Brian Hancock talks with Phillip Smith about his experience as commander of the 451 Civil Affairs Brigade, his time as a student at the Army War College and his work designing how Civil Affairs can respond to domestic crises and disasters.  --- One CA is a product of the civil affairs association  and brings in people who are current or former military, diplomats, development officers, and field agents to discuss their experiences on the ground with a partner nation's people and leadership. We aim to inspire anyone interested in working in the "last three feet" of U.S. foreign relations.  To contact the show, email us at CApodcasting@gmail.com  or look us up on the Civil Affairs Association website at www civilaffairsassoc.org --- Special thanks to "Traveller" for the sample of Federico Abuele's "Contigo." Retrieved from https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o-AL7q5mDSc

Please welcome Mickey Bergman, lead author of the book "In The Shadows," where he discusses his experiences negotiating the release of hostages and people unlawfully imprisoned in some of the most restrictive places on Earth.  In the book, Mickey takes the reader through his time working with Governor Bill Richardson and, after his death, transforms his legacy into the non-profit Global Reach, where he now brings in a community of people to continue the work.  This is part two of a two-part episode. Check out last week's episode to hear part one.  Global Reach Website: https://www.reach.global/ Link to the book: https://www.amazon.com/Shadows-High-Stakes-Negotiations-Americans-Captured ---- One CA is a product of the civil affairs association  and brings in people who are current or former military, diplomats, development officers, and field agents to discuss their experiences on the ground with a partner nation's people and leadership. We aim to inspire anyone interested in working in the "last three feet" of U.S. foreign relations.  To contact the show, email us at CApodcasting@gmail.com  or look us up on the Civil Affairs Association website at www civilaffairsassoc.org --- Today's music is a tribute to James Chance, who passed away this week. The solo is from his album White Cannable. Retrieved from https://youtu.be/vUfcWDHMEQY?si=gPGLKe6_05aFSE24 --- Host Jack Gaines

Please welcome Mickey Bergman, lead author of the book "In The Shadows," where he discusses his experiences negotiating the release of hostages and people unlawfully imprisoned in some of the most restrictive places on Earth.  In the book, Mickey takes the reader through his time working with Governor Bill Richardson and, after his death, transforms his legacy into the non-profit Global Reach, where he now brings in a community of people to continue the work.  This is the first of a two-part episode. The second part will come out next week.  Global Reach Website: https://www.reach.global/ Link to the book: https://www.amazon.com/Shadows-High-Stakes-Negotiations-Americans-Captured ---- One CA is a product of the civil affairs association  and brings in people who are current or former military, diplomats, development officers, and field agents to discuss their experiences on the ground with a partner nation's people and leadership. We aim to inspire anyone interested in working in the "last three feet" of U.S. foreign relations.  To contact the show, email us at CApodcasting@gmail.com  or look us up on the Civil Affairs Association website at www civilaffairsassoc.org --- Today's music is a tribute to James Chance, who passed away this week. The solo is from his album White Cannable. Retrieved from https://youtu.be/vUfcWDHMEQY?si=gPGLKe6_05aFSE24 --- Host Jack Gaines

Today, we welcome back Major Gustavo Ferreira, a Civil Affairs agriculturalist.   Gus originally came on episode 123 to discuss agriculture's impacts on foreign policy.  Gus has published two articles,  "Does China Have Enough Food to Go to War?" and  "Taiwan's Food Resiliency—or Not—in a Conflict with China." After publishing, Gus was interviewed on this show, which resulted in an interview with the Economist, a session at the Center for Strategic and International Studies,  and now resulting in a congressional testimony with the U.S. China Economic and Security Review Commission.   Gus was joined by two others but for this episode, I will only focus on his testimony and discussion with the commission. I'll include links for the full testimony and papers in the show notes.  ---- One CA is a product of the civil affairs association  and brings in people who are current or former military, diplomats, development officers, and field agents to discuss their experiences on the ground with a partner nation's people and leadership. We aim to inspire anyone interested in working in the "last three feet" of U.S. foreign relations.  To contact the show, email us at CApodcasting@gmail.com  or look us up on the Civil Affairs Association website at www civilaffairsassoc.org --- Links: Commission link: https://www.uscc.gov/hearings/chinas-stockpiling-and-mobilization-measures-competition-and-conflict Does China Have Enough Food to Go to War? https://www.armyupress.army.mil/Portals/7/PDF-UA-docs/Ferreira-UA.pdf Taiwan's Food Resiliency—or Not—in a Conflict with China https://press.armywarcollege.edu/parameters/vol53/iss2/10/   Special Thanks to Joyful Jamboree · CM BGM Room Bossa Nova In The Café ℗ Cloud Media Released on: 2023-05-16 Producer: CM BGM Room Composer: CM BGM Room Music Publisher: CM BGM Room.  Retrieved from https://youtube.com/watch?v=YCTzOnKNaSQ&si=v2hajnhu77yw3FzU   --- Showrunner: Jack Gaines

Please welcome Retired Lieutenant Colonel Scott Mann.  As a Green Beret, Scott designed and led the local village stability operations program in Afghanistan. After leaving the military, he began to focus on using his experience with the struggle of transitioning from a fast-paced and high-risk lifestyle to build a healthy transition to the civilian world of work and family. As a result, he launched "Heroes Journey" to help servicemembers, first responders, and their families cope with post-crisis trauma through storytelling. Scott also wrote and featured in the play and film "Last Man Out," which portrays the impacts of war on our Veterans and their families Additionally, after Kabul fell to the Taliban, Scott and others launched Task Force Pineapple Express to help Afghan partners leave the country.  Lastly, Scott has made three appearances on TEDx to discuss his work with veterans and first responders and is announcing his new book, "No One is Coming to Save You," which will be released in October.  This discussion is split into two separate episodes.  The first one is to discuss Scott's work prior to the book "No One is Coming to Save You," which airs in October. The Second episode releases in September and is a discussion and the book. ---- One CA is a product of the civil affairs association  and brings in people who are current or former military, diplomats, development officers, and field agents to discuss their experiences on the ground with a partner nation's people and leadership. We aim to inspire anyone interested in working in the "last three feet" of U.S. foreign relations.  To contact the show, email us at CApodcasting@gmail.com  or look us up on the Civil Affairs Association website at www civilaffairsassoc.org ---- Special thanks to Ahimsaz for the sample of “Shahamat." Retrieved from https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1wmoH-fHhwQ ----Credits---- Host: Jack Gaines

Welcome to the ONE CA Podcast. I'm LTC Brian Hancock, and I will be your host for this session. Today, we have Major Megan O'Keefe-Schlesinger with us to discuss Civil Affairs, Information Operations, and the U.S. Army School of Advanced Military Studies (SAMS). MAJ Schlesinger, welcome to the show!   Megan O'Keefe-Schlesinger is an Information Advantage practitioner. She has served in the Nevada National Guard medical detachment, the Pacific, Europe and the Middle East in various capacities from the Army Medical Department to civil affairs planner and leader with special operations. In her downtime she volunteered with Team Rubicon assisting with disaster relief in the Mid West and COVID vaccine events. As a student at the command and general staff officer college she studied Defense Support to Civil Authorities and Homeland Security at the University of Kansas  School of Law. She went on to study the impacts of automation on the Army and applying emerging concepts in multi-domain operations to large scale military exercises.    Disclaimer: A quick reminder for the audience that all remarks are solely those of the presenters. One CA is a product of the civil affairs association  and brings in people who are current or former military, diplomats, development officers, and field agents to discuss their experiences on the ground with a partner nation's people and leadership. We aim to inspire anyone interested in working in the "last three feet" of U.S. foreign relations.  To contact the show, email us at CApodcasting@gmail.com  or look us up on the Civil Affairs Association website at www civilaffairsassoc.org ---- Special thanks to BluntedBeatz for the sample “Summer Breeze.” Retrieved from https://youtu.be/3P8Xz71BLes?si=r4-xvwcG21cLMWrO ----Credits---- Host: Brian Hancock Production: Jack Gaines

Welcome to the ONE CA Podcast. I'm LTC Brian Hancock, and I will be your host for this session. Today, we have Major Megan O'Keefe-Schlesinger with us to discuss Civil Affairs, Information Operations, and the U.S. Army School of Advanced Military Studies (SAMS). MAJ Schlesinger, welcome to the show!   Megan O'Keefe-Schlesinger is an Information Advantage practitioner. She has served in the Nevada National Guard medical detachment, the Pacific, Europe and the Middle East in various capacities from the Army Medical Department to civil affairs planner and leader with special operations. In her downtime she volunteered with Team Rubicon assisting with disaster relief in the Mid West and COVID vaccine events. As a student at the command and general staff officer college she studied Defense Support to Civil Authorities and Homeland Security at the University of Kansas  School of Law. She went on to study the impacts of automation on the Army and applying emerging concepts in multi-domain operations to large scale military exercises.    Disclaimer: A quick reminder for the audience that all remarks are solely those of the presenters. One CA is a product of the civil affairs association  and brings in people who are current or former military, diplomats, development officers, and field agents to discuss their experiences on the ground with a partner nation's people and leadership. We aim to inspire anyone interested in working in the "last three feet" of U.S. foreign relations.  To contact the show, email us at CApodcasting@gmail dot com or look us up on the Civil Affairs Association website at www civilaffairsassoc.org ---- Special thanks to BluntedBeatz for the sample “Summer Breeze.” Retrieved from https://youtu.be/3P8Xz71BLes?si=r4-xvwcG21cLMWrO ----Credits---- Host: Brian Hancock Production: Jack Gaines

Today we welcome Natasha Zieski and discuss her journey from growing up in Zaire to becoming a US citizen and joining Civil Affairs and the State Department's Office of Conflict Stabilization. This episode is a little different, but there is a lot of good stuff in it. Enjoy. One CA is a product of the civil affairs association  and brings in people who are current or former military, diplomats, development officers, and field agents to discuss their experiences on the ground with a partner nation's people and leadership. We aim to inspire anyone interested in working in the "last three feet" of U.S. foreign relations.  To contact the show, email us at CApodcasting@gmail dot com or look us up on the Civil Affairs Association website at www civilaffairsassoc.org ---- Special Thanks to the Cafe Music BGM channel for sampling Hip Hop Jazz & Chill Jazz Summer Beach Mix - Instrumental Cafe Music. Retrieved from: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YROyrBBf9WQ ----- Credits Sponsor: Civil Affairs Association Host: Jack Gaines

Today Assad Raza hosts Pawel Bernat, Juneyt Gurer, and Cyprian Kozera, authors of Proxy Wars From a Global Perspective: Non-State Actors and Armed Conflicts: https://www.bloomsbury.com/uk/proxy-wars-from-a-global-perspective-9781350369283/ ---- One CA is a product of the civil affairs association  and brings in people who are current or former military, diplomats, development officers, and field agents to discuss their experiences on the ground with a partner nation's people and leadership. We aim to inspire anyone interested in working in the "last three feet" of U.S. foreign relations.  To contact the show, email us at CApodcasting@gmail dot com or look us up on the Civil Affairs Association website at www civilaffairsassoc.org ---- Special thanks to Rajhesh Vaidhya and Bengaluru Ganesh Utsava for the audio sample. Retrieved from https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B_iVM-6z2j4 ----- Credits Sponsor: Civil Affairs Association Host: Assad Raza Showrunner / editor: Jack Gaines

Today, Jack Gaines hosts Doctor Sandor Fabian, who published  "The Illusion of Conventional War: Europe is Learning the wrong lessons from the conflict in Ukraine."  This ten-point contrarian op-ed is focused on helping smaller nations build better national defense programs.  Article link: https://mwi.westpoint.edu/the-illusion-of-conventional-war-europe-is-learning-the-wrong-lessons-from-the-conflict-in-ukraine/ Sandor Fabian's Bio: https://www.linkedin.com/in/sandor-fabian-ph-d-3422b639/ --- One CA is a product of the civil affairs association  and brings in people who are current or former military, diplomats, development officers, and field agents to discuss their experiences on the ground with a partner nation's people and leadership. We aim to inspire anyone interested in working in the "last three feet" of U.S. foreign relations.  To contact the show, email us at CApodcasting@gmail dot com or look us up on the Civil Affairs Association website at www civilaffairsassoc.org --- Special thanks to Jazz Bois for the sample of Mellow Hive Live @ Root Budapest. Retrieved from https://youtu.be/EhGCsaiVm0I?si=zG3B1_1zaHjC_K2j

Brian Hancock hosts Brad Hughes in a two-part discussion on how Civil Affairs and the 38G civil society programs are helping the U.S. in its foreign policy outreach in the Pacific. This is part one of two.    Brad Hughes Bio: https://www.linkedin.com/in/bradfordhughes/ Brian Hancock Bio: https://www.linkedin.com/in/brian-j-hancock/ One CA is a product of the civil affairs association  and brings in people who are current or former military, diplomats, development officers, and field agents to discuss their experiences on the ground with a partner nation's people and leadership. We aim to inspire anyone interested in working in the "last three feet" of U.S. foreign relations.  To contact the show, email us at CApodcasting@gmail dot com or look us up on the Civil Affairs Association website at www civilaffairsassoc.org   Special thanks to DrSaxLove for the sample of "Nearness of You." Found on Cocktail Party - 40s Music. Retrieved from: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dvH-nbindvk

Brian Hancock hosts Brad Hughes in a two-part discussion on how Civil Affairs and the 38G civil society programs are helping the U.S. in its foreign policy outreach in the Pacific. This is part one of two.    Brad Hughes Bio: https://www.linkedin.com/in/bradfordhughes/ Brian Hancock Bio: https://www.linkedin.com/in/brian-j-hancock/ One CA is a product of the civil affairs association  and brings in people who are current or former military, diplomats, development officers, and field agents to discuss their experiences on the ground with a partner nation's people and leadership. We aim to inspire anyone interested in working in the "last three feet" of U.S. foreign relations.  To contact the show, email us at CApodcasting@gmail dot com or look us up on the Civil Affairs Association website at www civilaffairsassoc.org Special thanks for the sample of Maurice Chase covering Lionel Richies, "You are the Love of my Life," retrieved from Dr. Saxlove on his album "Happy Hour, Cocktail Party."   

Today, we welcome Patrick Passewitz, who authored the Monograph "The Sicilian Connection: A Story of Allied Military Governance in 1943" while attending the Army's School of Advanced Military Studies. We brought him over today to discuss his findings and how they apply to current events. We will share the article link when it is published.  One CA is a product of the civil affairs association  and brings in people who are current or former military, diplomats, development officers, and field agents to discuss their experiences on the ground with a partner nation's people and leadership. We aim to inspire anyone interested in working in the "last three feet" of U.S. foreign relations.  To contact the show, email us at CApodcasting@gmail dot com or look us up on the Civil Affairs Association website at www civilaffairsassoc.org Special thanks for SensualMusic4You producing "Hip Hop Jazz & Hip Hop Jazz Instrumental: 10 Hours of Hip Hop Jazz." Sample found at https://youtu.be/XEa0Xn9XAzk?si=eeWyVqE3c1uL6d2Q dependent. How can the military, diplomacy, and development workers manage the process to ensure a successful transition to becoming an independent partner in the international community? Special thanks to DrSaxLove for the song "Happy Hour." Retrieved from: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c8YIlU_30Kk