Podcast appearances and mentions of Daryl Davis

Gissele: [00:00:00] was Martin Luther King, Jr. Wright, does love have the power to transform an enemy into a friend. We’re currently working on a documentary showcasing people doing extraordinary things such as loving. Those who are most hurtful in this documentary will showcase extraordinary stories of forgiveness, reconciliation, and transformation. You’d like to find out more about our documentary, www M-A-I-T-R-I-C-E-N-T-R-E com slash documentary. Hello and welcome to the Love and Compassion Podcast with Gissele. We believe that love and compassion have the power to heal our lives and our world. Don’t forget to like and subscribe for more amazing content. Today we’re talking with Larry Rosen about whether enemies can come together in dialogue. Larry is the founder of a mediation law practice. Through understanding he has helped thousands craft enduring solutions to [00:01:00] crippling conflicts, millions have watched this popular TEDx talk with secret understanding humans whose insights informs the enemy’s project. From 2024, Larry completed writing the novel, the Enemy Dance, posing the question, must the society riven by tribalism descend into war or can it heal itself? Larry is a graduate of UCLA School of Law, where he served as editor of the Law Review and received numerous academic awards. Growing up, Larry was both the bully and the bullied. The one who was cruel and the one who was kind, he was sometimes popular. And sometimes friendless. He had many fist fights with kids who became his friends. He had his very own chair at the principal’s office. He believes that his peacemaking today is born out of the callousness and empathy that he knew as childhood. [00:02:00] Please join me in welcoming Larry. Hi, Larry. Larry: Hi there. That, it’s funny because that la last piece that you read about my, you know, the, the principal’s office that’s on my website, I’ve never had someone read that back to me and it brought me a little bit to tears, like, oh, that poor kid. Yeah, I, I don’t hear that very often. So anyway, Gissele: yeah. Oh, I really loved it when I saw it, and I could relate to it because I’ve also been both. when we hurt other people, we wanna be forgiven, but when people hurt us, you don’t always wanna forgive, right? Mm-hmm. So it gives you the different perspective. I’m so thrilled to have you on the show. And how I actually came to know about your project is, so I’m a professor at a university and I teach research and ethics. And, what I had discovered about my students is that many of them don’t come with the ability to do the critical thinking, to be able to hold both sides. Many of them come thinking there’s gotta be a right answer, and there’s a right way of doing things. Just tell us what the answer is. [00:03:00] And so for my students, I get them to write a paper where they tell me the things they feel really strongly about. Then they’re researching the opposing perspective using credible sources. because trolls are easy to dismiss, right? So credible sources, the opposing perspective, and then they are supposed to, so tell me what are their main points? You know, like why do they believe what they do? And and are you really that different? Right? And then the last part of the paper is. Talk about the emotions you feel and throughout the year I prepare them in terms of being able to handle it. So I teach them mindfulness, I teach them self-compassion so that they can hold because it’s really difficult to hold posing perspective. What? It’s research and ethics. I do it for my, ’cause one of my research interests is compassion. And so, and I was a director of one of the departments I had was hr. And what I noticed was when people had conflict, it was the inability to regulate themselves, to sit in a [00:04:00] conversation that prevented them from going anywhere. And so what I do in my classes, like I’ll do like a minute, like maybe five minutes, three minutes, right before the start of class, I’ll teach mindfulness or like a self-compassion practice and we talk about it all year. And then at the end of the year they’ll do a, a paper where they do the opposing perspective. Then at the end they talk about the emotions they feel. So, and, and they can do that through music. They could do that through a photograph. They could do that through an art project or they just use text. They say, oh, I felt this. I felt that. And so it was in my students researching for their papers that they encountered your project. And they were blown away. They were so, so happy about it. And I like, I’ve watched the episodes. They were amazing . And so that’s why I wanted to have you on the show. And so I was wondering if you could start by telling the audience a little bit about the Enemies project and how you got inspired to do this work. Larry: So the Enemies Project is a [00:05:00] docuseries where I bring together people who are essentially enemies, people of really dramatically different viewpoints, who pretty much don’t like each other. And so an example is a trans woman and a, a woman who is maga who believes trans people belong to mental institutions a Palestinian and a Zionist Jew and, and lots of other combinations. And the goal is not to debate. There are lots of places where you can see debates and I allow them to argue it out for a few minutes to, to show what doesn’t work. And then I bring them through kind of a different process where they. Understand each other deeply, which basically means live in each other’s viewpoint, really ultimately be able to, like you’re trying to do in your class as well. Have them express each other’s viewpoint. And that is a transforming process for them. Usually when they do it in each other’s presence. And it, you know, it has hiccups which is part of the process, but it goes really [00:06:00] deep. And so ultimately these people who hate each other end up almost always saying, I really admire you. I like you. I would be your friend. And sometimes they say, I love you. And usually they hug and there’s deep affection for each other at the end. And they’re saying to the camera or to, you know, their viewers, like, please be kind to this person. This person’s now my friend. And that is for me important because. Like you probably, and probably most of your listeners, I’m tired of what’s happening in society. I am tired of being manipulated. I think we’re all being manipulated by what I call enemy makers. People who profit from division financially, politically they’re usually political leaders and media leaders. And we’re all being taken. And the big lie at the center of it is that people on the other side, ordinary people on the other side are bad or evil. That’s the, the dark heart lie at the [00:07:00] center of it. And if we believe that we’ll follow these leaders, we’ll follow them because we all want to defeat evil. We all must defeat evil. And so what I’m trying to do in this project is unravel that lie by showing that people on the other side are just us. Yeah. And they too have been manipulated and we’ve been manipulated. So and it’s gone well, it’s gone really well. You know, there have been, we’ve been, we’ve done eight or nine episodes and we have in various forms of media, been seen tens of millions of times in the last five months. And we have, I think, 175,000 followers on different media. And the comments are just really, from my perspective, surprisingly, kind of off the chart powerful. Like this has changed tens of thousands of comments of just this is, this is in. Sometimes I’ve, I cried throughout or it’s actually changed my life. I see people differently. So it’s, it is been really, it’s really great to have that feedback and, and then we have plans for the future, which I can tell you [00:08:00] about later. But yeah, but that’s, that’s the basic background. The reason I got into it I don’t know if you have kids, but for me, kids are the great motivator. You know, the next generation, probably people who don’t have kids also are motivated for the next generation as well. We, I care deeply about what I’m leaving my kids and other people’s kids, you know, they all touch my heart and I, I feel really terrible about the mess we’re believing them in, and I feel terrible about what humanity is inheriting. And so I want to have an influence on that. Gissele: Yeah. Yeah. And one of the things I love about your docuseries is that the intent isn’t to change anyone’s mind. The intent is for people to feel heard and seen, and that is so, so powerful. It makes me think of Daryl Davis about how he went. Do you know the story of Daryl Davis? I don’t like jazz musician. So he’s a black jazz musician who when, since he was little, he wondered why people were racist. So what he did was actually go [00:09:00] to KKK rallies and speak to KKK leaders. Yeah, Larry: I have heard, yeah. Gissele: Yeah. He didn’t mean to change anyone. He just wanted to offer them respect, which you, as you say, is fundamental and just wanted to understand. And in that understanding, he created those conditions too that led people to change . And so I think that’s the same thing that your docuseries is offering. Larry: Absolutely. I mean, you can see it so easily that Yeah, as soon as one person hears the other person, the person who was heard is the one who changes. you don’t change the other person by telling them your story and by convincing them of anything. It’s when you hear them and hear what their true intention has been and what’s going on in their life, that’s when they change. It’s the fastest road to their change really. But if you go in with that objective, then they won’t change. So there’s kind of a, you know, an irony or a paradox embedded in this, but usually both people move [00:10:00] toward each other, is what happens. Yeah. Gissele: I want the audience to understand how brilliant this is because, I don’t know if you know Deeyah Khan, she’s a documentarian and she interviewed people from the KKK And one of the things we noticed in all those interviews was that many people hate others. They’re people that they’ve never met. They’ve never met people in that group, but they hate them. So, Larry: yeah, that’s, that’s really interesting just to hear that. Yeah. Gissele: Yeah. So how does the Enemies project help challenge misconceptions about groups that have never met each other, carry beliefs about the other? Larry: Well, so far really hasn’t because everybody who we’ve done a show with has met people from the other side. Gissele: Oh, Larry: okay. You know, it’s not like because thus far with the, with I think one or two exceptions, everyone’s been an American. So in, in the United States, everybody’s gonna meet somebody else. they’re not friends with them, they’re not deeply connected with them. But from my perspective it, it doesn’t [00:11:00] matter. You know, you can be from the most different tribes who’ve never met each other, we’re all gonna be the same. the process never differs. we don’t start with politics. My view is that starting with politics, which is how some, some people who try to bring others together to find common ground, start with politics, and that’s not going to work. What I start with is rapport. You know, as soon as you start with something that a person is defensive over, you’re gonna put up, they’re gonna be wearing armor, and they’re going to try to defeat the other person. So we exit that process and we really just help them understand what’s beautiful in each other’s lives, what’s challenging in each other’s lives, and they, there’s no question that as soon as you see what’s beautiful in someone else’s life or challenging, you’re gonna identify with it because you’re gonna have very similar points of beauty and challenge yourself. And then we fold. Politics into it about why politics really are important [00:12:00] to the other person. And we do it in a way where it’s a true exploration. And once that happens, people connect deeply. so it doesn’t matter from, in my experience, how different the people are, how extreme the people are. you’re going to be able to bring them together, you know? And so if they haven’t met each other, it’s really interesting what you said that people hate, people a haven’t met, which is like a, such a obvious statement. And it is really profound just to hear that, like, it’s so absurd. Yeah, and I would say that in my experience, the most profound or the deepest sessions are with people who are really dramatically surprised that the other person’s a human being. So if they, if they haven’t met each other, if they haven’t met someone like that, it’s gonna be an easy one. Yeah. ’cause because the shock is gonna be [00:13:00] so huge. Speaker 4: Mm-hmm. And Larry: so, and so full, it’s when the people have had experiences with the other side that it’s, that it is, it’s still powerful, but it can be a little bit more intellectual than, than in the heart because when you’re shocked by someone’s humanity, because you couldn’t imagine it at all, it, it really crushes your thoughts about them. Gissele: What I love about the process is that that’s the part you really focus on. You masterfully, are able to get people to really get to the root of their humanity and make that connection and then reengage in the dialogue , which is, is amazing. So who individuals selected and what’s support needs to happen before they can engage in the dialogue? And I ask that because each individual has to be able to hold the discussion. Because sometimes it’s, sometimes it can feel so hurtful, and I’m thinking in particular, even Nancy. So they’ve gotta be able to regulate enough to stay in the dialogue. Otherwise, what [00:14:00] I have seen is people will eject, they’ll fight, they’ll just kind of flee. So what preparation needs to happen and how do you select people? Larry: So on the selection front, it’s different now than when I started, you know, when I started filming about a year ago, I didn’t have any choices. You know, it wasn’t like anyone knew who I was or they had seen my shows, so I would go, I would live in the Bay Area and it’s really hard to find conservatives in the Bay Area, but all the conservatives in, in the San Francisco Bay Area congregate, they have like clubs. Mm-hmm. And so I would go on hikes with, in conservative clubs and I would speak to them and I just would try to find people who were interested. There were no criteria beyond that. Now, having said that, it’s not entirely true. I did interview some people who I just were like, they’re two intellectual, they just wanted to talk about economic issues or stuff, something like that. and then for liberals, it was actually harder, [00:15:00] believe it or not, to find people in the Bay Area who wanted to participate. I could find tons of liberals and progressives, but they had zero interest in speaking to a conservative person. And I wasn’t sure if that was a Bay Area phenomena, because liberals are so much in the majority, they don’t really care to speak to the other side, whereas the other side wants to be heard, or whether that’s a progressive kind of liberal thing. I have my views that have developed over time, but it was hard to find liberal people. And so really at the beginning it was just people who were willing to do it. There weren’t criteria beyond that. At this point, you know we’ve received some that people know what we’re doing and people want to be on the show and we receive applications and my daughter. Who runs this with me, my daughter Sadie, who’s 20 years old and in college. She is the person who finds people now, and you might have seen the episode a white cop and a black activist. I don’t know if you’ve seen that one, but, you know, she found those two people and they were [00:16:00] great. And the way she found them is she searched the map on the internet. It’s a little different now because by searching people on the internet, we find people who have a little bit of an audience. Mm. And that could be a bit of a problem. But it’s also like so much less time consuming for us. And so. You know, if we had a lot of money, we would spend more money on casting, but we don’t, and so mm-hmm. But we were able to find pretty good people. I’d say the main criteria for me, in addition to them having to have some passion about this, this particular show that they’re on, whether it’s about abortion or Israel, Gaza, the main criteria for me that’s developed is, do I want to hang out with this person? Because if I do, if the person, not whether they’re nice. Okay. Not whether they’re kind. That’s not it. I want them to have passion and I want to like them personally, because if I, it’s not that I don’t like the, some of the people, I like them all, but I don’t [00:17:00] want to hang out with them. If I do, it’s gonna be a great show because I know that they’re gonna be dynamic people and that their passion will flip. they’re gonna connect in some way and people who are really cordial and kind, they’re not, they’re not going to connect as deeply. The transformation’s not going to be as powerful for them or for the audience. Gissele: Hmm. Really interesting. I wanna touch base on something you said, you know, like that most people listen to debate. And I like Valerie Kaur’s perspective, which is to listen, to understand is to be willing to change your mind and heart. And I also like what you said, which is listening is to love someone. Can you explain what you mean by that? Larry: I think it more is the, it’s received as love than it, than necessarily it’s given as love. It doesn’t mean that you love the other person when you’re listening, but all of us, I would say if we think of the people [00:18:00] that we believe love us the most, they get us. Yeah. We receive it that way and, and they don’t judge us. And so when an enemy does that for you, the thought that they are a bad person melts away. Because if somebody loves us, and that’s the way it’s received, it’s not really an intellectual thing, we just receive it that way. They can’t be a bad person. Like somebody who loves me cannot be a bad person. And so it’s probably the most powerful thing that you can do to flip the feeling of the other side, is to listen to them, not to convince them of anything and to listen to them with curiosity, not just kind of blankly to listen to them without judgment. That’s a real critical piece. And if you do, you know, you can see on the show, it’s just like, you can see the switch flip. It’s really interesting. You can almost watch when it [00:19:00] happens and all of a sudden. The person likes the other person and now they’re listening to each other. It was really interesting. I was on a show one of the episodes is called I forget what it’s called. It’s the Guns episode. How To Stop The Bleed or something. It was these two women, and one of them has a podcast that she had me on and she said what was really interesting to her was that given how the show was laid out, like the first part of the show, they’re arguing, like usually doing a debate and they don’t really hear each other. But she said, given how the show was laid out, she was not preparing her responses in her mind like she always does. When speaking to somebody else, she was not thinking about what she was going to say. Her job in her mind was to understand the other person, to really get the other person. She said it was a total shift in the way she was acting internally. Like, like, and she said she noticed it. Like, I am not even thinking about what I’m going to say. And then she said afterwards she thought a lot about it, [00:20:00] and that was a dramatic shift from anything she’s been involved with. And that’s another way to put it. You know, I don’t, I didn’t think of that when, you know that the people wouldn’t be preparing for their response like we usually do. But that is definitely what happens when you concentrate on listening, and so yeah, it’s received really warmly and it’s transforming. Gissele: Yeah, and I think it, a lot of it has to do with how you manage the conversations, right? Like the tools that you use. I noticed they use the who am I right? To try to get people to go down to their core level to talk about themselves, the whole flipping side, identity confusion, which we’ll talk about in a minute. So are these based on particular frameworks that you use to mediate conversations since you have a history of mediation? Or is this something that you sort of came up on your own? Larry: It is something that I came up with on my own for the most part. I mean, I do a type of mediation in the law. I’m a lawyer where it’s unusual because [00:21:00] I’m doing like a personal mediation in a legal context. It’s kind of weird. for people. Yeah, but I only do the types of mediations where people know each other, like I don’t do between two companies, because there’s not really a human element to it. It’s, it really is about money for the most part. But, but when it’s two human beings, the money is a proxy for something else, always. Mm-hmm. Yeah. and so I’m used to being able to connect people. I do, you know, divorce founders of companies, neighbors family members who are caring for another family member. People who, where there wouldn’t be a legal issue if their relationship wasn’t broken. And so they already know each other. I don’t have to do that really deep rapport building. I do have to do some, but not really deep. but my theory was that when starting this project, which is mostly political, and people who don’t know each other, that there would be a piece missing. You know, like I wasn’t sure if what I’d do would do would work. What I do with clients would work in this. Political context, and I want them to [00:22:00] know, my thought was how do I build that rapport, even if it’s broken in the personal relationship, like they’re craving that they want that healing, but here, like they don’t know the other person. So it was really just me think thinking about how do powerful things that I want to know about other people. Speaker 3: Yeah. Larry: And so I really just tried it. I mean, like, you know, what is most, what would I most powerfully want from another person? and I develop a list of questions that really worked well, but I’m really practiced in keeping people focused on the questions at hand and not allowing them to deviate from what it is that I’ve designed. So that’s something that, you know, I’ve been doing for 20 years, and it takes some skill to even know whether the person’s deviating, whether they’re sneaking in their own judgment or they’re, you know, they’re asking a question, but it’s [00:23:00] really designed to convince the other person. So I’ve good at detecting that from, from a fair amount of experience, and I’ve developed skills in how I can reel them back in without triggering them. Gissele: Yeah. I’ve watched it, like you’re very good at navigating people back and it’s very soft and very humane. can I just bring you back here? So there’s no like judgment or minimizing of what they say. They’re just like, well, can I just get you back on this track? It’s, it’s very beautiful how you do that . Larry: Thank you. and you ask how I prepare people. It’s interesting because what I do is I interview them for an hour and a half to see if they’re a match for the show, an hour and a half to two hours. And I get to know them during that and, and me asking all these questions, gets them liking me. Right. The same process happens between us. Yeah, Gissele: yeah, yeah, yeah. Larry: Smart. [00:24:00] and then before the show, I spend another, hour with them again over, it’s over video. I’ve never met these people in person, just repairing them for what’s going to happen, what my objectives are helping them understand that we’re going to start with conflict. It’s not where we’re going to go. Just really helping them understand the trajectory and answering their questions. And so they come in with some level of rapport. For me, it’s not like we know each other really well, so a lot of times it’s just us starting together. But they do trust me to some extent. There’s no, like, and you said, how do I get them to regulate? I don’t. there’s no preparation for that. It’s just that I, from so much experience with this, you know, thousands of conversations with people over the years, it’s easy to get a person to calm down, which is, you know, you just take a break from the other person to say, hold on a second, I’m gonna listen to you.[00:25:00] And then they calm down. And, those skills, you know, the whole, the whole identity confusion and the layout of the questions, that’s kind of my stuff. But the skills that I use are not mine. I’ve developed them over the years, but a lot of them come from nonviolent communication. Mm-hmm. And Marshall Rosenberg. And I got my first training in nonviolent communication probably 25 years ago. But I remember well the person’s saying, you’re moderating a conversation between, between two people. You prov you apply emergency first aid ’cause one person can’t, can’t hear. And you as the intermediate intermediary can apply that. And it, so it becomes quite easy, you know, with that thought in mind that I can heal in the moment, whatever’s going on. Gissele: Mm, mm-hmm. Beautiful. I wanna talk a little bit about the flipping side. ’cause I think it’s so, so important. Why do you get people to, with opposing [00:26:00] perspectives, to flip sides and then just reiterate the viewpoints from their perspective. I know sometimes it can be confusing to the people themselves, but why do you get them to flip sides? Larry: Yeah. So, so it might be helpful to view it through, you know, a real example. Let’s take. Eve and Nancy, which is, you know, a really powerful episode for your, wow. Your listeners who haven’t watched or heard any, any of these, Eve is a transgender woman. Fully transitioned. Nancy is what, what she called a gender fundamentalist wearing a MAGA hat. She comes in and she’s saying stuff like people who are trans belong in mental institutions. She tells Eve to her face that you’re a genetically modified man. Eve is saying, you know, you people don’t have empathy for other people. They’re really far apart. Let’s just say it’s not gone well. [00:27:00] Eve is very empathetic, however, you know, like she is unusually empathetic. And able to hear Nancy, and that is transforming for Nancy. I mean, I can’t express the degree to which Eve’s own nature and intention transformed this. You know, I helped, but it is an unbelievable example of me listening to you will transform you. And where I take them ultimately is I’m preparing them as they’re understanding each other for switching roles. Because what happens when we switch roles? I mean, my thought is that human beings can easily, you might, it might be weird to this, this point, but we, we often say you can walk in the shoes of another person. How is that even possible? If you, if you think about it, we, we have totally different upbringings, you know, how can you experience what another person experiences if we have totally different upbringings, [00:28:00] different philosophies. Like, how is that possible? And yet almost everybody can do it. And it’s because we have the same internal machinery, we have the same internal drives. We just have different ways of achieving them. And so if you can slowly build your understanding of a person’s history and their beliefs, like a belief might be that there’s Christ who is love and will save me. That’s a belief. If you identify the person’s history and their beliefs and you occupy that belief, you can understand why it’s important to them. If you have that be, why would that be? Well, it’s important to me now if I really believe that, because I wanna live forever. I can be with the people I love forever, I can help save other people. Like can there be anything more powerful than saving somebody’s soul? Like once you enter their belief, and the reason we’re able to do [00:29:00] that is because we are the same internally, we have the same desires. So the whole show is a buildup toward getting them to understand each other’s beliefs and experience and then occupy them. And once we do and we start advocating on the other person’s behalf, we become confused who we are. And that’s really powerful. Like, I don’t even know who I am and I’m doing this legitimately, like I’m totally advocating for you. I’m saying stuff you didn’t even say. Yeah. And then you are listening to me do that, and you’re blown away like you’ve never been heard so deeply. And particularly not by someone you consider an enemy. And so that is transforming. What I will say is that I use this process a lot in mediation. For a different reason. My mediations are not meant to repair relationships. This is meant to repair relationships my mediations are meant to solve issues. Gissele: Hmm. Larry: In, in this show, I [00:30:00] specifically tell them, you are not here to solve the issues. Like, how are they gonna solve the Palestine Israel issue? Yeah. Right. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. And it’s too big of a burden and no one’s gonna listen to them. Mm-hmm. The goal is to show the audience that people should not be enemies. That they’re the same people on the other side. That’s my goal. So I try to keep them away from solution seeking because they will be disappointed. People won’t listen to them and things could fall apart. And that’s, it’s not the point of the show. But what’s interesting is that in my mediations, I use this tool of having them switch identities to solve issues because once they do occupy the other person’s perspective fully, they are then. Solving the issue because they understand that an internal level, the other person and what drives them, and they have no resistance to that and they understand themselves. They already understand themselves. And so during that process, solutions emerge because [00:31:00] they’ve never been able to hold both perspectives at the same time. And I heard you say that when we were opening the show, I don’t remember what the context was about holding both perspectives at the same time. But you, you said that, that that’s something that you do. Yes. Gissele: So so when, when students are taught research or even like thinking about ethical considerations, right? When you’re doing research, you’ve gotta be able to hold differing perspectives, understand differing views, understand research that might invalidate your perspectives, right? And so if you come already into the conversation thinking that there’s a right way or there’s a right perspective, and I heard you say this in your TEDx talk, I think you were talking about like, we can only win if we defeat the other side. That perspective that there’s only one side, one perspective prevents us then from engaging in dialogue and holding opposing views. Larry: and the holding the opposing views for, in my mind is not an intellectual process. Like you might think that if I, if I list all the [00:32:00] desires and the goals on both and on a spreadsheet, then I’ll be able to solve it. No chance. Yeah. It’s not a conscious intellectual process. It’s when you get it both sides deeply without resistance that your subconscious produces solutions. So we don’t consciously produce solutions. And what I found is that that is the most powerful tool to bring people to solutions where they are themselves and the other person at the same time where both people are doing this and then one person just suggests something that never occurred to any of us. And it solves it. Gissele: Yeah. Yeah. Now, that doesn’t Larry: happen in, in the show because I’m specifically telling them not to seek solutions, but it does happen in mediation. Gissele: Hmm. Yeah. And What you’re doing is so fundamental too, sometimes it’s not even about finding a solution. Sometimes it’s even just about finding the humanity in each other. And that is such a great beginning. You know, people wanna solve war. Yeah, of course we all wanna [00:33:00] eliminate war, but sometimes there’s war within families with neighbors. So why are we worried about the larger war where we’re not even in able to engage and hold space for each other’s humanity within our homes? And so I think what you’re inviting people to do is, can we sit with each other in dialogue without the need to change each other, just with respect, which you’ve mentioned is fundamental, just with presence, just remembering each other’s humanity. And I think that’s all fundamental. Larry: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Gissele: Yeah. I wanted to also mention, you know, one of the things that I noticed in, the conversations is how you focus people on disarming, and one of the ways that you get them to disarm is to take their uniforms off. Can you talk about a little bit about how uniforms show up in these conversations? Larry: Yeah. Some people come with like a MAGA hat or a pin or bracelets or something like that, that show which side they’re on, and I don’t discourage that. You know, [00:34:00] it’s part of the process for the audience from my perspective, because at a certain point, if they do come that way, I ask ’em not to wear a shirt that they can’t take off, but they might wear a hat. And if they, when they do take that off, eventually when we, when we stop the argument, when we stop the debate portion and we enter into another. Portion of the discussion, you can see the effect on the other person. And you can even see the effect on the person who took like the most dramatic is Nancy. Gissele: Yep. Nancy is wearing a, that’s the one I was Larry: thinking. MAGA hat. Yeah. And then she puts on Nancy is is from Kenya and she puts on a Kenyan headdress because her hair is, that’s so beautiful. A little messed up from the hat. And she’s like, I’ll put this on. and I asked her like, wow, you look really happy when you have that on. And she’s like, yeah, this is my crown. And she is almost like a different person and you know, uniforms basically divide, I mean they announced to the other side [00:35:00] essentially. I don’t care about you whether consciously or not. it’s interpreted as I will defeat you at any cost. You just don’t matter. I am on this side and I will crush you. And, and when she took that off, you could really actually see the difference in her and in Eve. Gissele: Yeah, absolutely. It was truly transformative. ‘Cause I noticed that when she had the hat you can even see it in the body language. There was a big protection. And she use it as a protection in terms of like, well, my group but when she used her headdress, it was so beautiful and it was just more her, it was just her. It wasn’t all of these other people. When I think about, you know, the Holocaust and how people got into these roles. ’cause you know, in my class we talk about the vanity of evil, right? Like how people, some people were hairdressers and butchers before the Holocaust. They came, they did these roles, and then they went back to doing that after the war. And it’s like, how does that make sense? And, and to put a uniform on, to [00:36:00] put a role on and then fully accept it, like you said, creates that division, creates that separation between human beings. Whereas what you’re doing is you’re asking them to disarm and to go back to the essence of their own humanity, which I think is really powerful. But it was really interesting the whole discussion on, on uniforms, right? Larry: Yeah, yeah. it is one of the many ways we separate ourselves, that we separate ourselves, that we perceive ourselves as different than them, and that they view us as a threat. Gissele: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I heard you say that enemies are not enemies, it’s just us on the other side. What do you mean by that? Larry: I mean the ordinary people of the enemy. I believe enemy makers, if you can think of who you might consider an enemy maker. They are political leaders and they are media leaders. And they wouldn’t exist. They wouldn’t have any [00:37:00] power. People wouldn’t vote for them. People wouldn’t watch them if they didn’t create an enemy. If they didn’t foster the idea that there is an enemy. And the enemy has got to be broad. It can’t just be one person. It’s got to be a people that I’m fighting against. It’s gotta be a big threat. And so they paint people who are ordinary people on the other side as a threat. All the time. Yeah. and so that’s the, big lie at the center of it, that they’re a threat. And what happens is, there’s the psychological process that the, brain goes through. The mind goes through that where once we’re under threat, that’s a cascade that is exists in every human being. And that results in us going to war with the other side once we’re under threat. But this is an us choosing a leader. But this is a very fundamental basic process and [00:38:00] fundamental, basic lie that that autocrats and demagogues and people who just want power have been using forever with human beings, I imagine. And it’s extremely powerful. And so what I intend to show is that that is a lie. Gissele: Hmm. Larry: That is just not the truth because at the core of this psychological process is the thought that you’re a threat to me. And then this whole cascade happens internally for me. If I no longer believe you are a threat, the cascade unwinds and the power of the enemy maker unwins, it can all flip on that one lie. And so I want people to understand that ordinary people on the other side are just them. Like, I can’t tell you how many times people on the show are, are just like, holy cow. Yeah, I see myself in you. Like I, that’s exactly what I’m experiencing. And it’s revelatory for [00:39:00] them. Like how could that be? Like how could we be opposed to each other? This is crazy. Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah. Gissele: And you know, it’s amazing how when we truly understand somebody’s reasons for believing what they do, their history, their beliefs, why they believe makes sense, right? Yeah. Like, I saw it a lot in children in care, in the child protection system. Their behaviors seem reallymisbehaved. they shut down. They, act out. in some cases, that’s how those kids survived, these abusive homes, right? And so to them they’re still always on survival mode. Yeah. Makes sense. That’s what helped them survive. And so you, when you understand the other person’s perspective makes sense. Yeah. And you know, as you were talking, I was thinking what is going on for those demagogues and those authoritarian people that believe that that’s the only way that they can get what they need. you mean the leaders themselves? The leaders themselves, like so powerful people, people that are in their power, feel, love, feel [00:40:00] fulfilled, don’t need to disempower others, they don’t. In fact, the more that you love yourself at least that has been my experience, the more I have compassion for myself, the more I love myself, the more I’m in that state, the less I wanna hurt other people. The more I care about other people actually. So what is going on for them? That they think that this is the only way to get their needs met? Larry: I’ve thought a lot about this, you know, because the goal of this show is to show that people aren’t enemies, but there are enemy makers. And to me they are the enemy. like of all of the rest of us, all of us who are just trying to exist in the world, who prefer a world where we’re working together, you know? Yeah. It’s these people on the extreme who are, who are basically consciously sucking the goodwill out of society that I couldn’t care less about that because they get power. So is there something different about them? Is there, I have a few conclusions. One is [00:41:00] that there are people who are different that, that they are born, you know, all of us are born with the same internal desires and almost all of us get pleasure from seeing other people happy. That’s just born into us. Like, you know, almost everyone who’s an activist who comes onto the show, everyone actually is doing it because they want to other people to be happy. They, they don’t want people to experience the same pain that they’ve been in their life, but there are people who are born without or have extremely dialed down the pleasure that they get, the happiness that they get from seeing other people happy and healed. It’s not that the rest of us always want to see other people happy, but it, it’s one of our greatest sources of pleasure. There are people who are born without that. We call them sociopaths, Some leaders are sociopaths. They, don’t, I believe, obtain pleasure from other people’s happiness and they’re able to manipulate us quite often very well. And it’s these people who in peace time, [00:42:00] we wouldn’t even sit next to, we wouldn’t invite them over for Thanksgiving. Those are the people we choose, that it’s, it Gissele: doesn’t make biological sense. Larry: Well, they’re the people we choose when we’re at war, they are the people we choose. So, so think about this, okay? There is a virus, and the virus will kill 95% of human beings. And you have a leader who says there’s someone in power who says, we understand that people who are infected are going to infect other people, that as a society, we need to euthanize them. We actually need to do that as a society to save other people. Mm-hmm. There might be a leader who is empathetic, who says, I can’t do that. That, that feels wrong to me. almost all of us turn to the someone else who is a tyrant. Gissele: Who’s willing to do [00:43:00] what needs to be done to save us, right, exactly. Larry: To defeat evil, to kill, you know, when there’s a big enough threat, we will turn to the tyrant. And so people who are sociopaths and who in normal society would be rejected as a person who’s extremely dangerous, are the very people we turn to in times of war, when evil needs to be defeated. And so if you’re a sociopath and you want power, there’s no other way to power, you’re not going to follow the route of cooperation. You’re not going to follow the route of, you know, building alliance with the other side. You’re, if it, you’ll go the route of creating an enemy. And so that’s what we’ve, we’ve found. In our society, there are people who rise to power, who are the very people we would want nothing to do with in peace time. And that [00:44:00] people turn to, because they believe the other side is an enemy. They believe they are the virus that will kill 95% of people. So you can think of any leader and you might say, how could people follow this person? How could they possibly, what kind of evil is in people that they would follow this person, given what this person is doing? And the answer is obvious. They’ve been convinced that the other side is evil. Gissele: Yeah. Larry: And they truly, truly believe it. Gissele: This makes me think Hitler would’ve been a lone nut if 10 million people hadn’t followed him. Right? Larry: Right. And they believed, right. Gissele: They believed, I Speaker 4: mean. Larry: That, that Jews were, were incredible danger. They also ignored it and, you know, wanted to get along in society and, and be with the people they cared about. But, they truly believed that Jews were evil. Yeah. And if you, if you can convince them of that, you can lead a people. Gissele: Yeah. So the, it goes to the [00:45:00] question of like the reflexivity, like, so what is people’s own responsibility to constantly examine their own biases, beliefs, and viewpoints? Right. I gotta applaud the people that are on your show because they have to be willing to engage in a dialogue. So there’s an element of them that is willing to be wrong, right? or willing to kind of engage in that perspective. And we struggle so much. Yeah, with being wrong, like the mind always wants to be, right. We want to be on the side of good. And that’s one of the things that I was so reflecting on, I think I was listening to the conversation with, proud Boy, and the, in the progressive. The, yeah, progressive And that’s one of the episodes, by the way, for people. Yeah. That’s one of the episodes. And, and I, I love the follow up by the way. That was also amazing. It’s so funny because I was like, oh, is there a follow up? And I were like, went to search for it. Just to see how both sides feel that they’re right. And on the side of good, on the side of like positive for humanity, I think was really puzzling to me we have different ways [00:46:00] of getting there. You know, the people that for Trump really truly believe that some of the stuff he’s doing is very beneficial. The people that are against, they truly believe that what he’s doing is horrible. And to see those perspectives that at the core of it is a love or a care about humanity was really kind of mind blowing. Larry: Yeah, that is mind blowing. Gissele: Yeah, Larry: it is mind blowing. And what is infuriating to me is that we are manipulated to not pair with these other people because then these leaders would lose their power, you know, it’s a huge manipulation. Gissele: So this is why it’s up to each of us to do that work, to do the coming together, the engaging in the conversation, even though sometimes it feels difficult. And, having a willingness to listen And that’s the thing, that’s the thing about your beautiful show, which is like, you don’t have to agree at the end. You just have to see each other’s humanity, right? to let go of enemies, let go, to let Larry: go of that we have to agree that’s a real problem for me as well. Like when I get into a conversation with someone, [00:47:00] it’s like, how do we conclude the conversation if we don’t agree? It’s almost like it’s, it’s a forced imperative that is a mistake. Like that’s the point of the conversation. Yeah. for the most part, let go of that because I see now that that was just a mistake. Like we never had to agree. Gissele: Yeah. I so let’s talk about then, since we’re talking about disagreement, let’s talk about censorship, So because of the class that I teach, because I want them to understand different perspectives. One of the things I say in these papers is like, look, you can be pro-choice or pro-life. You can be pro Trump or against, I’m not judging you. That doesn’t matter. The exercise is to view the other side. That’s it, right? But it’s amazing how some of these dialogues in institutions have been diminished because there’s the belief that if we have these conversations, we’re supporting it, right? But the truth of the matter is that dialogue goes underground. It doesn’t disappear. It [00:48:00] doesn’t mean like, oh, everybody now believes this. It just goes covert, right? And these dialogues about these opposing perspectives are happening. And so I think I’d rather have these conversations up. And so that we can engage in dialogue and see what people are believing. I mean, there’s this undercurrent of racism, it seems, from my perspective, it it that that has existed for such a long time. It used to exist very, like visually in terms of slavery, but now there is still underground racism, right? Like it’s covert people may be able to vocalize the importance of diversity, but some people don’t believe it. So let’s talk about it rather than kind of like try to get those people to disappear and pretend it’s not there. What are your thoughts? Larry: Yeah. You know, there’s been a criticism that comes from the left a lot on the show, from people, from in comments is that we platformed bad guys. Like, you should not, you should not be giving a [00:49:00] stage to a proud boy. Well, if you listen to the Proud Boy’s perspective, this guy is like completely reasonable. He, he, you know, from people on the left, they’re even confused that he’s a proud boy. I think he might be confused about why he is a proud boy, I’m not sure. but he’s completely reasonable. So to, to just reflexively reject this person. He’s not there to represent the proud boys. He’s there to represent himself and to reflexively reject this person is to miss out on really a, a beautiful person and an interesting perspective. I’ve given a lot of thought to the criticism, however, because there’s a guy I’m considering having on the show who is a self-described fascist, a white supremacist, and I’ve had conversations with him and it is amazing how. The reason he is a white supremacist is he truly believes that white people are in danger and that he will be rejected. There will be no opportunities for them, and that he [00:50:00] is possibly in physical danger. He truly believes this. And if I believe that, you know I might do the same thing. And, I had a three hour interview with him where I really liked him, but I’m probably not gonna put him on the show. And, I’ve really thought a lot about whether to platform people and, I’ve kind of developed my own philosophy on whether it’s worth whether I should be airing viewpoints or not. And my thought is that a bridge goes both ways. So I can build a bridge where I walk him back. I am confident that I can have someone hear him out and him develop a relationship with them where he then becomes less extreme in his viewpoints. Gissele: I was gonna say, I think you should have him on the show. here’s is my perspective. Okay? Again, this is so similar to what Darrell David said, right? his intent wasn’t to change. It was to [00:51:00] understand, I think if we understood why people were afraid of us or hated, I’m Latino, by the way, right? We understood then we, can have the dialogue. The thing is like. People are giving like a one-sided propaganda. And it’s true, like if you actually hear the rhetoric of many separate groups is the fear of the other. Even though when you look at the population stats, right, even in the US black people make up 4%. Indigenous people make up 2% of the population. Like I think white people make up 57% of the population of the US and it’s higher in Canada. But it’s the fears, even though they might not be based on reality. That’s the rhetoric that these groups use. They use the rhetoric of we’re in danger, that these people are out to get us to destroy us. Thatsomehow it’s better for us to be isolated and separated. And they use the rhetoric of belonging. They use the rhetoric of love. They [00:52:00] use a co-opt it I don’t even think it’s rhetoric Larry: for them. It’s truth for them. Okay, Gissele: thank you. Yeah, so if you have people who are engaging in those different dialogues, like Darrell did, people don’t understand why they believe that the way that they do. Right? Because, because it’s real. Right? Now that rhetoric is happening, whether people wanna face it or not, that’s the problem. So Larry: I you completely, and when I first started this, I said to myself, there’s no question that I’m gonna have a Nazi on the show. There’s no question. But as I’ve thought about the critique that’s been offered, I’ve kind of drawn a line for myself at least present. And, and that’s fair. but I’ll tell you why I haven’t, I haven’t said why yet, which is A bridge goes both ways and, while I believe it’s really important to hear people, them out, because you walk people on both sides back from the extreme, toward the majority when you hear them out because they don’t see people as a threat anymore. As much. [00:53:00] What happens is by building the bridge, you provide an opportunity for many people to walk out toward them. When you give them an opportunity to hear, hear them out publicly, and my thought is that I will hear anybody out who has a large following because they already are being heard. Mm-hmm. They already have people walking out to them, and my goal is to bring them toward the rest of us so that we can function as a society. Mm-hmm. But I’m not gonna hear somebody who’s 0.1%, who’s because. Mm-hmm. Gissele: Okay. Larry: I understand me walk because they’re, I can walk them back, but maybe I walk 20 people out to them. Gissele: And it creates Larry: a bigger problem. And so, in my own view it’s about how big their following is already. Mm. Even though, yes, it’s, we can walk them back by hearing them. Gissele: Mm. Yeah. So, yeah. It’s, [00:54:00] it’s so interesting. I was just thinking about Deeyah Khan And Darryl David’s the same. And one of the things I noticed about their work is that, and I noticed it in yours too, is sometimes what happens in these sort of circumstances is that the people that they are exposed to might become the exception to the rule. Have you heard of the, the exception to the rule? So let’s say I meet someone who’s anti-Latino, but they’re like, but then they like me. And so they’ll do, like, you are all right. Speaker 4: Yeah. Gissele: I still don’t like other Latinos. Right. And so in the beginning that used to irk me so much. Right? Then I realized after watching all of this, information and I observed it in your show and I thought about it, is that’s the beginning of re humanization. Larry: I agree with that. It’s like it’s a dial, it’s not a switch. Yeah. Gissele: Yes. And so it begins with, oh, this is the exception to the rule, and then this next person’s the exception to the rule, and then this next person, and then, then the brain can’t handle it. Like how many exceptions to the rule can there [00:55:00] be? They couldn’t hold the exception to the rule anymore. Right. It had to be that their belief was wrong Right. Which is, it’s really interesting. And, and Larry: it’s another, another interesting thing I often say, which I get negative feedback about this statement that we don’t choose our beliefs. we don’t have any power over them. They just exist. Mm-hmm. And we can’t choose. Not if I think that. A certain race is dangerous to me. I can’t just choose not to. You can call me racist, whatever. I just can’t choose my thought about it. I have an experience. People have told me things. That’s my belief. That belief gets eroded. It doesn’t get changed. Gissele: Mm-hmm. It, Larry: it happens not consciously. Life experiences change our beliefs, we don’t just suddenly love white people. if we’ve experienced, brutality from white people or from white cops, you don’t just change your belief about it. You have to get, you have to slowly be [00:56:00] exposed. You have to, or be deeply exposed. so these types of things erode our other beliefs. Gissele: Mm-hmm. Larry: And, and my goal is not, you know, like Nancy came in, I would say as a nine or a 10 with her. Dislike for trans people when she left. Just to be clear, ’cause people I think are mistaken about this, who watch this show, she does not think still that trans people should be around kids. She still thinks it’s dangerous, but she thinks trans people themselves are okay. That they can be beautiful, that they do not belong in mental institutions. And as she said, I would drink outta the same glass from you Eve and I would protect you. So she went from a 10 to a seven, let’s say? Yeah. Gissele: Yeah. Larry: And she’s still out there. She still there. She used the word Gissele: she. Larry: Mm-hmm. Yeah. She used the word SHE and she’s still out there advocating for keeping trans people away from kids. and [00:57:00] people are like, so she’s a hypocrite. She’s, no, she has moved so far and. Eve moved toward, I shouldn’t paint Nancy as the wrong one. Eve moved toward Nancy understanding that Nancy really is worried about kids, and Nancy brought up some things that really concerned Eve when she heard it, about the exposure that kids have to various concepts. I guess my point is that people who get dialed down from a 10 to a six or a seven can deal with each other. They can run a society together. Mm-hmm. They don’t, they don’t invest all of their energy in defeating the other side, which is where all of our energy is now. I call it issues zero. You care about climate change, or you care about poverty, you care about mass migration, you care about nuclear per proliferation, you care about ai. Forget it. None of these are getting solved. Zero. Yeah. Unless we learn to cooperate with each other, and if [00:58:00] we’re dedicating all of our energy to defeating the other side, every single one of these issues goes unaddressed. And so my goal is to dial the vitriol down so that we can actually solve some human problems so that the next generation doesn’t inherit this mess that we’ve created. Gissele: Mm-hmm. You once said, I, I may be misquoting you, so please correct me. Revenge is a need for understanding. Can you explain that further? Larry: Yeah. I said that in in my TEDx, mm-hmm. if someone has been hurt by another person, they often seek revenge. And that desire for revenge will go away actually when they’re understood. If you’re under and you deny that you want to be understood by your enemy. You’d say like, that is baloney. they deserve to be punished and they need to be punished to provide disincentive for other people in society so that they don’t do this terrible thing. People [00:59:00] would deny that they want understanding from their enemy, but when they receive it, the desire for revenge goes away. I mean, I’ve seen that innumerable times. So how does the need for understanding help us live beyond the need to punish one another? Well, I think that if someone’s seeking revenge against you, if someone’s trying to injure you, you can unravel that by understanding them, whether we, people agree that that human beings seek revenge as a need or not, you can unravel it pretty, not easily, but you can pretty reliably. Very often people who seek revenge against each other, like in my mediations, once they’re understood by the other person, once they have some connection, They go through some kind of healing process with the other person. They don’t even understand why they were seeking revenge themselves, like they are [01:00:00] completely transformed. they were like, that would be a total travesty of justice if you were hurt Now. Gissele: Yeah. I love the fact that these conversations get at the core of human needs, which is they need to be seen, they need to be understood, they need to be loved, they need to be accepted, they need to be long. And so I think these conversations that you’re facilitating get to those needs, you kind of like go through all of the, the fluff to get to the, okay, what are the needs that need to be met? and how can we connect to one another through those needs? And then, and then from that, you go back to the conversation on the topic. And really it’s about fears at the core of it, right? Like the fear that my children are gonna be confused or forced into something or, the fear that somebody’s gonna have a say over my body and tell me that I have to do something. All of those fears are at the core and conversations get at those needs, not at the surface. Yeah. It’s not to say Larry: I should say that. It’s not to say that the fears are irrational. Yeah. They might be rational. But you know, it’s also a [01:01:00] self-fulfilling prophecy that if we fear somebody, they’re going to think of us as a threat. We’re gonna do stuff that creates the world that we fear. And it’s obvious with certain issues like between two peoples. You know, like if you fear that the other people are going to attack you, you might preemptively attack them or you might treat them in a, in a way that is really bad. And, and so you start this war and that happens between human beings on an individual basis and between peoples, yeah. It’s less obvious, with an issue, let’s say abortion. my fear is not creating the issue on the other side. but many of our interactions with other human beings, it is our fear that triggers them. We create the world we fear. Gissele: Yeah. And I think that goes back to the self-responsibility, right? to what extent are we responsible for looking at ourselves, looking at our biases, looking at our prejudice, looking at our fear and how our [01:02:00] fear is causing us to hurt other people. What responsibility do we have to engage in dialogue or be willing to see somebody’s humanity, right? It’s Larry: just this better strategy. Even if you think of it as, yeah, you know, people sometimes say these two sides. I get this criticism a lot, and this, by the way, these criticisms come from the left mostly that these two sides are not, are not Equivalent. Oh, okay. how could you equate Nancy and Eve, Eve just wants to live. Nancy’s trying to control her, the left views, the right is trying to control them and oppress them and so they’re not moral equivalent. And my point is always, I’m not making a point that they’re morally equivalent. That’s for you to decide, okay? If you want to. I’m saying morally judging them is not effective. It’s just not gonna produce the world that you want. So, you know, it’s just really effective [01:03:00] to hear them out, to take their concerns seriously, even if you think that it’s not fair. But you’ll then create the world you want. And if you don’t do that, if you poo poo them, even if they’re wrong, you believe they’re completely wrong, and you think that mm-hmm you know, there is good and evil and they are completely the evil one, you are going to exacerbate their evil by morally rebuking them. And I want to say that like as clearly as possible, I haven’t made this point e enough on the show. I’m really kind of building a base before I go into more sophisticated, what I would consider a more nuanced. Philosophy, but if you judge somebody, it is the greatest threat to a human being. Just understand that we evolved in groups and moral judgment was the way we got kicked out of groups. If you were a bad person, you were gone, you were dead. [01:04:00] And so all of us respond very, very negatively to being judged as selfish. I’ve had clients threaten to kill each other. Not as powerful

What do you do when someone believes you shouldn't exist? Daryl Davis didn't protest. He didn't shout. He sat down, asked questions, and kept showing up. Over decades, that approach has led more than 200 Ku Klux Klan members and white supremacists to walk away from their robes for good. In this conversation, Davis explains why people radicalize, and what happens psychologically when prejudice collides with a real human being. He shares stories from inside Klan meetings, lessons learned from neo-Nazis, and why today's climate of polarization may actually be an opportunity rather than a dead end. Daryl Davis earned his Bachelor of Music degree from Howard University and an Honorary Doctorate in Humane Letters from Post University. He is the author of Klan-Destine Relationships and the subject of the multi-award-winning documentary Accidental Courtesy, which chronicles his work in race reconciliation. A lifelong musician, he has performed with Chuck Berry and President Bill Clinton, and as an actor appeared in HBO's The Wire.

Il est noir. Ils sont membres du Ku Klux Klan.Ils auraient dû se haïr… mais au lieu de ça, ils ont parlé.Cette histoire vraie semble impossible, mais elle a changé des centaines de vies.Voici l'incroyable parcours de Daryl Davis, le musicien qui a convaincu plus de 200 suprémacistes de quitter le Klan.Une vidéo qui prouve qu'on peut désarmer la haine… sans violence.

L'histoire incroyable de Daryl Davis, l'Afro-Américain qui a infiltré (et démantelé) des cellules du Ku Klux Klan. Étienne constate la grande différence entre le magasinage des Fêtes aujourd’hui vs “Dans mon temps” et un débat enflammé: doit-on interviewer un pédophile pour "comprendre"? Voir https://www.cogecomedia.com/vie-privee pour notre politique de vie privée

The Ku Klux Klan is one of the tightest-knit White supremacist groups in America—once someone joins, they're usually in for life. But since the 1980s, over 200 members have renounced their affiliation, and all give credit to the same man: a Black jazz musician named Daryl Davis. In this episode, Adam is joined by Daryl and Jeff Schoep, a former leader of the largest neo-Nazi group in the US whose life and mind were changed by meeting and befriending Daryl. They discuss techniques for challenging ignorance and prejudice, analyze the cognitive dissonance experienced by members of extremist groups, and reflect on the conversations with Daryl that helped Jeff think again. They also explore the limits of empathy and curiosity.Host & GuestAdam Grant (Instagram: @adamgrant | LinkedIn: @adammgrant | Website: https://adamgrant.net/) Daryl Davis (Instagram: @realdaryldavis | Website: https://www.daryldavis.com/) Jeff Schoep (Instagram: @jeff_schoep | Website: https://jeffschoep.com/) Linkshttps://beyondbarriersusa.org/Follow TED! X: https://www.twitter.com/TEDTalksInstagram: https://www.instagram.com/tedFacebook: https://facebook.com/TEDLinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/ted-conferencesTikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@tedtoks Podcasts: https://www.ted.com/podcastsFor the full text transcript, visit ted.com/podcasts/worklife/worklife-with-adam-grant-transcripts Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

The Ku Klux Klan is one of the tightest-knit White supremacist groups in America—once someone joins, they're usually in for life. But since the 1980s, over 200 members have renounced their affiliation, and all give credit to the same man: a Black jazz musician named Daryl Davis. In this episode, Adam is joined by Daryl and Jeff Schoep, a former leader of the largest neo-Nazi group in the US whose life and mind were changed by meeting and befriending Daryl. They discuss techniques for challenging ignorance and prejudice, analyze the cognitive dissonance experienced by members of extremist groups, and reflect on the conversations with Daryl that helped Jeff think again. They also explore the limits of empathy and curiosity.Host & GuestAdam Grant (Instagram: @adamgrant | LinkedIn: @adammgrant | Website: https://adamgrant.net/) Daryl Davis (Instagram: @realdaryldavis | Website: https://www.daryldavis.com/) Jeff Schoep (Instagram: @jeff_schoep | Website: https://jeffschoep.com/) Linkshttps://beyondbarriersusa.org/Follow TED! X: https://www.twitter.com/TEDTalksInstagram: https://www.instagram.com/tedFacebook: https://facebook.com/TEDLinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/ted-conferencesTikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@tedtoks Podcasts: https://www.ted.com/podcastsFor the full text transcript, visit ted.com/podcasts/rethinking-with-adam-grant-transcriptsReThinking is produced by Cosmic Standard. Our Senior Producer is Jessica Glazer, our Engineer is Aja Simpson, our Technical Director is Jacob Winik, and our Executive Producer is Eliza Smith. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Musician and nomad, Nolan Marsh (@livefromthebus), joins us to talk about being Jewish in the U.S. Army, jamming at a neo-Nazi bar, life lessons from the road, and making music across the world. Follow him on Instagram & TikTok @livefromthebus!Support our work: buymeacoffee.com/peoplejewwannaknowWhat We Discuss: 00:00 Intro & Episode Agenda04:45 Nolan's story & Jewish upbringing9:41 On serving in the U.S. Army as a Jew 11:26 A blues jam at a Neo-Nazi bar19:00 The story of Daryl Davis, the black man who befriended the grand wizard of the KKK 22:00 Nolan's biggest lesson from living a nomadic life30:21 Has Nolan been to Israel? 31:30 Nolan's take on staying relevant on social media33:20 On making music all over the world 40:30 Nolan's musical inspirations45:29 Closing Remarks & Guest Nomination

We all have our roles. I'm the smug San Francisco intellectual and the Orlando-based Dr Chloe Carmichael is the fearlessly authentic psychologist. She's also the author of Can I Say That?, a feisty defense of free speech in our time of cancellation and unfriending. Most of us are too scared to say what we think, Carmichael argues about this anxiety-ridden, intolerant age. Such self-censorship is damaging our mental health, she worries. Liberals are more likely to defriend people over political differences. And yes, women sometimes lie. Imagine that. I'm a touch skeptical about some of this psychologizing—particularly whether any Americans are truly being silenced. But the good Dr Chloe has the “data” (who doesn't?), the slot on Fox, and the cheek to nail me as a smug San Francisco intellectual. Even if such straight talk nearly got her unfriended by an anonymous woke reviewer at Publishers Weekly. Probably another smug coastal elite. Can I say that?1. The Mental Health Case for Free Speech Dr. Carmichael argues that self-censorship creates psychological harm—elevated cortisol, repression, and denial. She claims that when people can't express themselves authentically, they either resort to violence, passive aggression, or damage their social relationships. Her clinical case: a client denied a promotion in favor of a woman who couldn't process his anger directly and began unconsciously “acting out” distrust toward women in his life.2. The “Five D's” of Liberal Intolerance Carmichael presents data showing people who identify as liberal are statistically more likely to: defriend, disinvite speakers, decline to date, distance in real life, or drop contact altogether over political differences. She insists this isn't “in the DNA” of liberalism—conservatives led censorship campaigns in the 1980s against rap music—but claims it's the current snapshot. She argues liberals genuinely believe limiting speech reduces hate and misinformation, but it actually has the opposite effect.3. The Violence Red Line Despite defending provocative speech (including Tucker Carlson interviewing neo-Nazi sympathizer Nick Fuentes), Carmichael draws a clear boundary: incitement to violence, fraud, defamation, and libel are not protected. She distinguishes between “viewpoint discrimination” (canceling someone for saying “a man can't become a woman”) and legitimate social distancing from those celebrating political violence. She's also fine keeping trans women out of her locker room.4. The Skeptic Pushes Back Andrew remains unconvinced there's actually a free speech crisis. He doesn't see evidence of widespread self-censorship among his (mostly liberal) San Francisco friends, questions her survey data, and challenges her claim of political balance—pointing out she appears frequently on Fox but never on MSNBC or CNN. He suggests the Publishers Weekly reviewer might be right that her book is a “slanted polemic” with a conservative bias, despite her protests.5. Dialogue, Not Deplatforming Carmichael's most compelling example: Daryl Davis, the Black R&B musician who collected dozens of KKK hoods from members who quit after having conversations with him. Her argument: pushing prejudice underground makes it fester; exposing it to dialogue and rational examination allows people to distance themselves from toxic thoughts. Even former jihadi recruiters, she notes, have been deradicalized through conversation, not censorship.Keen On America is a reader-supported publication. To receive new posts and support my work, consider becoming a free or paid subscriber. This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit keenon.substack.com/subscribe

Daryl Davis: How to be Prohuman with Music and FriendshipRecorded 8/7/2025

Daryl Davis is a blues musician, race relations expert, and author of several books, including "The Klan Whisperer." Jeff Schoep led America's largest neo-Nazi organization, the National Socialist Movement, for nearly three decades before renouncing its ideology. He is the author of "American Nazi: From Hate to Humanity."www.daryldavis.comwww.jeffschoep.com Perplexity: Download the app or ask Perplexity anything at https://pplx.ai/rogan. Don't miss out on all the action - Download the DraftKings app today! Sign-up at https://dkng.co/rogan or with my promo code ROGAN. GAMBLING PROBLEM? CALL 1-800-GAMBLER, (800) 327-5050 or visit gamblinghelplinema.org (MA). Call 877-8-HOPENY/text HOPENY (467369) (NY). Please Gamble Responsibly. 888-789-7777/visit ccpg.org (CT), or visit www.mdgamblinghelp.org (MD). 21+ and present in most states. (18+ DC/KY/NH/WY). Void in NH/OR/ONT. Eligibility restrictions apply. Terms: draftkings.com/sportsbook. On behalf of Boot Hill Casino & Resort (KS). Fees may apply in IL. 1 per new customer. Must register new account to receive reward Token. Must select Token BEFORE placing min. $5 bet to receive $300 in Bonus Bets if your bet wins. Min. -500 odds req. Token and Bonus Bets are single-use and non-withdrawable. Token expires 11/23/25. Bonus Bets expire in 7 days (168 hours). Stake removed from payout. Terms: sportsbook.draftkings.com/promos. Ends 11/16/25 at 11:59 PM ET. Sponsored by DK. This video is sponsored by BetterHelp. Visit https://BetterHelp.com/JRE Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

On this episode of Rich Valdés America at Night, Dr. Zuhdi Jasser, candidate for U.S. Congress in Arizona's 4th District, founder of the American Islamic Forum for Democracy, and former U.S. Navy Lt. Cmdr., discusses his proposed Gaza peace plan, his reflections on Charlie Kirk, and his run for Congress. Then, Dr. Ben Carson, newly named USDA National Nutrition Advisor under the Trump administration, explains what his appointment means, and how nutrition—or the lack of it—is impacting the health and well-being of Americans. Later, Daryl Davis, co-founder and Global Ambassador of the Prohuman Foundation, shares insights from his powerful new book The Klan Whisperer, and talks about his extraordinary journey attending Klan meetings, forging relationships, and confronting hate to create lasting change. Plus, Rich reacts to bad Bunny's se;ection for the NFL halftime show. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Daryl Davis is an African American musician responsible for de-radicalizing over 200 Klansmen and Neo-Nazis in his attempts to understand racism. He joins Heaton to talk about his experience, contact science, and the best ways to overcome bigotry. This episode has been corrected for an audio error which previously occurred. If you see two episodes in your player, go with this one! Original air date: July 8, 2020

Wilk Wilkinson, host of Derate the Hate and Director of Media Systems and Operations at Braver Angels, joins host Cody Cook to talk about our polarized political climate and how to rise above it. Braver Angels is a cross-partisan grassroots movement that strives to bridge toxic partisan divides through civil dialogue and civic renewal. Wilkinson shares his journey from a “toxic keyboard warrior” to advocating for depolarized conversations, emphasizing that dialogue doesn't mean compromising core beliefs—like a libertarian's stance against state violence—but fosters understanding. Can you engage neo-Nazis or Klansmen? Wilkinson, friends with de-radicalization expert Daryl Davis, insists even the darkest minds can teach us something, preventing downstream harm. While fear-driven memes grab clicks, Braver Angels' love-based approach, though more challenging to scale, builds trust over outrage. Wilkinson's Derate the Hate podcast and BraverAngels.org invite you to join this patriotic movement to heal divides.Audio Production by Podsworth Media - https://podsworth.com Use code LCI50 for 50% off your first order at Podsworth.com to clean up your voice recordings and also support LCI!Full Podsworth Ad Read BEFORE & AFTER processing:https://youtu.be/vbsOEODpQGs  ★ Support this podcast ★

One of the first things narcissists do to make people take sides, such as after a break up, is Reputation Destruction. They will not only gossip, but also lie. Fabricate events. Mix truths and lies. And remove context. They play the "first mover advantage". Provided they can place an idea in someone's head, even with flimsy proof, the person becomes hypnotised.And we are ALL vulnerable to this. So what can we do?I take the example of Charlie Kirk's assassination and the coverage to share the most effective method I have found. I really hesitated to share this because I am certain that "more than 0% of my listeners" will have been brainwashed. But I share it because this method is the most effective way to deprogram ourselves. Or simply check whether or not our ideas actually are our own, and whether they make sense.Why? We've seen two opposing narratives. A "not so small" number of people (about 10%...) have been celebrating someone's assassination, and even calling for more assassinations.And many people have uncomfortably watched that, perhaps even justifying the celebration.Many other people have watched in horror, not only the murder, but perhaps even more the celebrations. And their claim is that the victim, Charlie Kirk, was mischaracterised.So, which take is the most accurate?In this episode, I share a few tips to CHECK whether your beliefs match what you find in reality. Regardless of your current beliefs.The first is to STOP taking whatever your position for granted. Your take might be accurate, but if you don't CHECK, you'll not know - and you'll be an easy target for manipulation.When you check, ADD context. Regardless of if you agree or disagree with what was said, observe if the version you were told was accurate actually matches what you observed.If so, maybe it is. Keep checking a few other statements.If not, you were deceived. So check some more statements.And then ask yourself, even if the worst accusations were true, what is the appropriate response to someone being assassinated in front of their family?I'm a firm believer in dialogue with everyone. One of my heroes is Daryl Davis, the jazz musician who befriends Klu Klux Klan members. And happens to be black. I have no idea how he does it, but I aspire to be like him. People who gloat over Charlie Kirks assassination would also assassinate me. And you, if you dared speak to people you disagree with.Another hero is Peter Boghossian, who gets people who disagree to speak, and share ideas. Trying to understand each other better.One reason I do this work is to help good and decent people (I'm sure the VAST majority of my listeners) stop wasting time on bad faith people, so we can instead engage with good faith people. Do you know who panics about this? Narcissists and psychopaths!They do NOT want people who disagree to speak. Because it removes their power. We emancipate ourselves. We realise we actually have lots in common. Same values, but in a different order. And we don't have to agree on the order, but we can talk. And one thing I've noticed is: if I offer respect to people I disagree with, they're more likely to listen to me, and I'm more likely to help them see my point of view. Provided I'm willing to see theirs.Charlie Kirk's primary value was his willingness to engage respectfully with other humans, no matter how much they disagreed, and talk.That someone assassinated him, that people were encouraged to do so, and that people celebrated: now is the time to consider: what do we stand FOR and what do we stand AGAINST.Whilst I do NOT advocate for wasting time trying to debate with narcissists and bad faith people, walking away is not the same as physically attacking someone, painting a target on someone's back, lying about someone and gloating about murder.Observe who is trying to make people hate each other. Don't let them manipulate you.I hope you find this method helpful.

In this conversation, Jeff Schoep speaks about his recently published memoire, American Nazi - the story of his transformative journey from leading the National Socialist Movement to founding Beyond Barriers, an organization dedicated to helping individuals exit extremist groups. He discusses the challenges of writing his memoir, the psychological factors that contribute to radicalization, and the importance of human connections in overcoming hate. Schoep emphasizes the need for dialogue and understanding in combating extremism and shares insights from his current work in educating youth about the dangers of hate and the value of compassion.For over 2 decades, Schoep led America's largest neo-Nazi organization, the National Socialist Movement (NSM), overseeing its growth to a nationwide movement. Beginning in 2016, through interactions with a black musician, Daryl Davis, and a Muslim film maker, Deeyah Khan, Jeff began to question not only his work, but his entire life. Experiencing relational dialogue and interpersonal relationships with those he once vilified changed Jeff's life forever. In 2019, he left the the NSM and publicly denounced the ideology. Jeff Schoep transitioned from mastering propaganda that promoted hatred and fear dedication to speaking about our shared humanity. He provides unique insights into the inner workings of far-right extremism from first hand knowledge and personal experience. Jeff has spoken nationally and internationally, from synagogues to universities, from broadcasts to speaking at the Nobel Peace Center in Oslo, Norway with Deeyah Khan. In 2020, Jeff founded Beyond Barriers, a 501(c)(3) non-profit organization dedicated to a world devoid of extremism, radicalized organizations, hate, violence, coercive and violent ideologies. In addition to working alongside both community and government agencies, such as the Office of Juvenile Justice Department (OJJDP), Jeff and his organization, Beyond Barriers, have worked with the Simon Wiesenthal Center, RAND Corporation, International Center for the Study of Violent Extremism (ICSVE), mental health professionals, academic research and development teams, as well as religious and educational institutions across the United States and abroad. 

On today's episode Luis discusses his practice of humanizing those he disagrees with, and how the killing of Charlie Kirk, and the response to it, inspired him to share his reaction.When one of the people who had abused him died, Luis thought he'd feel relief, but instead found grief and love underneath the fear he'd been trapped in. His own self-inquiry made him decide that it hurt him more to hate his abuser than it did to humanize him. From this realization Luis began his personal radical rehumanizing practice. He discusses what humanizing isn't, how we can dehumanize ourselves, and how we can relate to the sensations and emotions that arise when we dehumanize ourselves or others.You can listen to the episode Luis recorded with Daryl Davis here: [Ep. 199] How A Black Man Humanized KKK Leaders & Changed Their Minds w/ Daryl Davisand read more about him on his website.You can sign up for the HLN newsletter here: https://www.holisticlifenavigation.com/join-my-newsletterYou can read more about, and register for, the live 7-week foundational course here: https://www.holisticlifenavigation.com/course You can register for the FREE Food Therapy session here: https://www.holisticlifenavigation.com/events/food-therapy-supporting-adhd-with-nutrition Sign up for our 6-month Embodied Relationships group, beginning in October: https://www.holisticlifenavigation.com/relationship-group----You can learn more on the website: https://www.holisticlifenavigation.com/ Learn more about the self-led course here: https://www.holisticlifenavigation.com/self-led-new Join the waitlist to pre-order Luis' book here: https://www.holisticlifenavigation.com/the-book You can follow Luis on Instagram @holistic.life.navigationQuestions? You can email us at info@holisticlifenavigation.com

Daryl Davis is a civil rights activist and author who has devoted his life to bridging the gap between racial divide by seeking out the roots of racism. In doing so, Daryl has attended countless Ku Klux Klan rallies, come face-to-face with Klansmen and Klanswomen and as a result successfully been the impetus for over 200 Klan members to leave their hatred behind and hang up their robe. Daryl joined us on NightSide to share his fascinating and inspiring life's work of turning hatred, racism and bias into friendship and admiration. He literally has a closet full of robes and hoods of KKK members who he helped reverse course away from racism and a life of hatred! You don't want to miss this hour of radio!

Bret Weinstein speaks with Daryl Davis on his experience engaging with members of the KKK, emphasizing the importance of dialogue, empathy, and understanding in breaking down barriers.Find Dary Davis at https://daryldavisspeaking.com and on X at https://www.x.com/realdaryldavis*****This episode is sponsored by Timeline. Timeline accelerate the clearing of damaged mitochondria to improve strength and endurance: Go to http://www.timeline.com/darkhorse and use code darkhorse for 20% off your first order.*****Join DarkHorse on Locals! Get access to our Discord server, exclusive live streams, live chats for all streams, and early access to many podcasts: https://darkhorse.locals.comCheck out the DHP store! Epic tabby, digital book burning, saddle up the dire wolves, and more: https://www.darkhorsestore.orgTheme Music: Thank you to Martin Molin of Wintergatan for providing us the rights to use their excellent music.Support the show

Daryl Davis is an accomplished musician who was played all over the world. He also has an unusual hobby, particularly for a middle aged black man. When not displaying his musical chops, Daryl likes to meet and befriend members of the Ku Klux Klan. When many of these people eventually leave the Klan with Daryl's support, Daryl keeps their robes and hoods; building his collection piece by piece, story by story, person by person, in hopes of one day opening a museum of the Klan.Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/the-opperman-report--1198501/support.

Send us a textThis week on The Joy of Cruising Podcast, I am proud to welcome Josh Christina, Recording Artist, scene-stealing, piano-wielding frontman, and veteran headliner of several cruise lines. Listeners know I am as passionate about music and comedy as I am about cruising so when I get a chance to have a conversation with someone who has performed on cruise ships, I am in my glory. Josh Christina is a dynamic and passionate musician whose love for piano rock has taken him on an incredible journey. His musical story began at the age of 7, inspired by the iconic sounds of Elvis Presley in Disney's Lilo & Stitch. It wasn't until age 15, after seeing the Broadway show Million Dollar Quartet and discovering the electrifying Jerry Lee Lewis, that Josh began playing piano, igniting his path as a pianist and performer. Josh's talents caught the attention of Grammy-nominated producer Kent Wells, who has worked with legends like Dolly Parton and Reba McIntire. Kent describes Josh as “such an old soul,” praising the way “the music just pours out of him.” This connection led to Josh recording in Nashville, creating music that resonates with the soul of classic rock and boogie-woogie. His single “Kayla Ann” topped several independent radio charts, and Josh's album Instincts (recorded at the historic Sam Phillips Recording in Memphis, TN) was a testament to his mastery. Produced by Josh and Grammy-winning pianist Jon Carroll, Instincts received high praise, with Jon calling Josh a performer who “does it real well and means every note.” Josh's high-energy performances have taken him across the globe, including a UK tour where he graced the stage of Ireland's Late Late Show. He's headlined major cruise lines, bringing his piano rock show to fans of all ages worldwide. He's also shared the stage with some of the world's top boogie-woogie and rock ‘n' roll pianists, earning admiration from both peers and fans for keeping the genre alive. His latest album, UFO's Over Phoenix, recorded live at Stages Music and Arts in Maryland, has already captured attention for its unique sound. Daryl Davis, former bandleader and pianist for Chuck Berry, describes the album as striking “the perfect balance of a scent of the familiar while being creatively and refreshingly new.” Josh Christina's infectious energy, undeniable talent, and deep respect for rock and roll history have earned him a dedicated following. His music is a celebration of the past, present, and future of piano rock.Support the showSupport thejoyofcruisingpodcast https://www.buzzsprout.com/2113608/supporters/newSupport Me https://www.buymeacoffee.com/drpaulthContact Me https://www.thejoyofcruising.net/contact-me.htmlBook Cruises http://www.thejoyofvacation.com/US Orders (coupon code joyofcruisingpodcast)The Joy of Cruising https://bit.ly/TheJoyOfCruisingCruising Interrupted https://bit.ly/CruisingInterruptedThe Joy of Cruising Again https://bit.ly/TheJoyOfCruisingAgainIntl Orders via Amazon

In this powerful episode of Nothing Left Unsaid, we sit down with Daryl Davis, a musician whose extraordinary story transcends music and dives deep into the heart of human connection. Davis has convinced over 200 members of the Ku Klux Klan to abandon hate not through force or anger, but through honest, patient conversation. Discover how Daryl's courage and curiosity led him face-to-face with some of the most notorious racists in America, challenging their beliefs and ultimately transforming their lives. Listen as Daryl shares remarkable stories of unlikely friendships, tense encounters, and profound moments of understanding. This conversation isn't just about confronting racism; it's about the transformative power of dialogue, empathy, and breaking through ignorance. Don't miss this unforgettable journey from confrontation to conversion. Get Daryl's new book: ⁠https://www.amazon.com/Klan-Whisperer-Dr-Daryl-Davis/dp/B0DRSWK4K9 SPONSORS: ElevenLabs: Thanks to ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ElevenLabs⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ for supporting this episode and powering Tim's voice. ALS Investment Fund: Thanks to ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ALS Investment Fund⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ for supporting this episode. SOCIAL: Website: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠tgnlu.com⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Twitter: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠@nlutimgreen⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Facebook: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠facebook.com/NLUpod⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Instagram: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠@nlupod⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ AUDIO ONLY: Spotify: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Listen on Spotify⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Apple Podcasts: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Listen on Apple Podcasts⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ PERSONAL: Tackle ALS: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠tackleals.com⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Tim Green Books: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠authortimgreen.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Ann, EJ, and Wesley provide a comprehensive post-analysis of the June 3rd commissioners court meeting, where Judge Tim O'Hare, Commissioner Manny Ramirez, and Commissioner Matt Krause voted 3-2 to accept Map 7. Why Map 7? Where did Map 7 come from? How does this impact Fort Worth? Watch this episode to get a deep dive.BIG STORY: Tarrant County commissioners vote 3-2 to redistrict, adopting a racially gerrymandered mapThey selected Map 7Citizens MapLawsuit in placeFW Council MeetingTony TinderholtSHORT STORY #1: Mia Hall won District 6: What does it mean for the councilMia Hall wins her race as the first majority female council member in FW historySHORT STORY #2: Tarrant Democratic Party Chair ResignsCrystal Gayden resigns as chairFormer chair announces candidacySHORT STORY #3: Transportation Wins During Hard TimesNew Blue LineTRE still existsHeartland Flyer endsHigh Speed Rail WINS LOSSES ACTIONSAnn's Win: LGBTQ PRIDE PROCLAMATIONTuesday, June 106 PM CSTCity Council Chambers 100 Fort Worth Trl, Fort Worth, TX 76102EJ Win: NO KINGS RALLYSaturday, June 1412 – 2 pm CSTBurk Burnett Park501 W 7th StFort Worth, TX 76102Wesley's Win: MORE ARTS FUNDINGThe Texas Commission on the Arts received a significant increase of $5.7 million in its budget, totaling about $39.8 million to help fund arts organizations throughout the state.Actions:Pride Proclamation - June 10th at 6pm at New City HallSparkFest June 13-22Rally No Kings Freedom Vibes: Juneteenth CelebrationGet involved with the 817 Gather Community

For the video of this episode, go to https://youtu.be/OtUSEC7Fk58. Why are so many Millennials deciding not to have children? How does therapy culture affect how young people view the prospect of becoming parents? Judy and I talk about a New York Times article by Michal Leibowitz that discusses this. She organized her article according to stanzas in Philip Larkin's poem “This Be The Verse,” which famously concludes, “Get out as early as you can / And don't have any kids yourself.” Along the way, we also talk about tribalism—both good and bad!—and mention Daryl Davis's TEDx talk, where he describes why he, a black man, has attended KKK rallies. Michal Leibowitz's article: https://www.nytimes.com/2025/05/30/opinion/therapy-estrangement-childless-millennials.html Daryl Davis's TEXx talk: https://www.ted.com/talks/daryl_davis_why_i_as_a_black_man_attend_kkk_rallies Do you have ideas for topics or guests for our podcast? Go to https://ctin7.com and send us a message. And you can also sign up for Dr. Chalmer's newsletter right from our homepage. Our sponsor is The Blue Tent: Erotic Tales from the Bible by Laria Zylber. Find out more at https://lariazylber.com. Bruce's latest book, Betrayal and Forgiveness: How to Navigate the Turmoil and Learn to Trust Again is available! More information at https://brucechalmer.com/betrayal-and-forgiveness/. And here's the link to leave a review.

Kevin hears Daryl Davis's “The Silver Dollar” story from Love and Radio for the first time and gives you his hot takes. You can also watch this episode on YouTube! • Pitch us your story! risk-show.com/submissions • Support RISK! through Patreon at patreon.com/risk or make a one-time donation: paypal.me/riskshow • Get tickets to RISK! live shows: risk-show.com/live • Get the RISK! Book and shop for merch: risk-show.com/shop • Take our storytelling classes: thestorystudio.org • Hire Kevin Allison as a coach or get personalized videos: kevinallison.com To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Mentor Sessions Ep.008: Daryl Davis on Befriending the Klan & Lessons for BitcoinersUnveil the extraordinary story of Daryl Davis, a black musician who befriended Ku Klux Klan members, helping over 200 abandon their hateful ideology through empathy and conversation. Daryl shares how his journey—from facing racism at age 10 to engaging Klan leaders—offers powerful lessons for Bitcoiners struggling to Orange Pill. Discover how his approach of addressing ignorance with education and exposure can help Bitcoiners connect with skeptics, overcome resistance, and drive Bitcoin adoption. From his childhood travels to disarming fear with human connection, Daryl's insights reveal universal strategies to bridge divides in the Bitcoin community and beyond. Ready to rethink how you share Bitcoin's potential? Dive in now!Chapters: • 00:00:00 - Episode IntroductionPreview of Daryl Davis's story and its relevance to Bitcoin education. • 00:01:03 - Daryl's Early Life and Global ExposureGrowing up as an embassy kid, immersed in diverse cultures. • 00:04:50 - Facing Racism at Age 10A parade incident sparks Daryl's lifelong question about hate. • 00:13:08 - Music Opens Doors: Meeting a KlansmanA country gig leads to an unexpected encounter with a Klan member. • 00:25:51 - Interviewing the Grand DragonDaryl meets Klan leader Roger Kelly, facing tension and humanity. • 00:40:42 - Empathy in Action: Lessons for BitcoinersHow education and exposure can win over Bitcoin skeptics. • 01:02:15 - Perception vs. RealityOffering better perceptions to shift mindsets without confrontation. • 01:10:20 - Success Stories: Over 200 Klan Members ReformedDaryl's impact and advice for fostering understanding.About Daryl Davis: • Website: daryldavis.com • Instagram: @realdaryldavis • X (Twitter): @realdaryldavis • LinkedIn: Daryl DavisSchedule a Free Discovery Session with Nathan to learn more about how Bitcoin Mentor can Fast-Track your Bitcoin Education and Level Up your Self-Custody Security: https://bitcoinmentor.io/?fluent-booking=calendar&host=nathan-1712797202&event=30minStruggling to explain Bitcoin to friends and family without losing them to complexity or misinformation? Blockhunters - The Bitcoin Board Game is your solution—a fast-paced, strategic game crafted by Bitcoin enthusiasts to make learning about Bitcoin fun and effortless. Through real-world stories like the García family battling hyperinflation or Omar escaping the CFA franc system, players build a blockchain, protect private keys, and compete for block rewards in just 30 minutes. Visit blockhuntersgame.com and use code BTCMENTOR for 10% off to spark Bitcoin curiosity today!FREE Bitcoin Book Giveaway:New to Bitcoin? Get Magic Internet Money by Jesse Berger FREE! Click here: bitcoinmentororange.com/magic-internet-moneyBOOK Private Sessions with Bitcoin Mentor:Learn self-custody, hardware, multisig, Lightning, privacy, and more from vetted educators. Visit bitcoinmentor.ioSubscribe to Mentor Sessions:Don't miss out—subscribe and follow us: • BTC Sessions: x.com/BTCsessions• Nathan: x.com/theBTCmentor• Gary: x.com/GaryLeeNYCEnjoyed this episode? Like, subscribe, and share! Check out our previous interview with Dr. Bob Murphy on Austrian economics and Bitcoin for more insights. https://youtu.be/KgqkfKd0VeQ#Bitcoin #BitcoinEducation #DarylDavis #Empathy #BitcoinAdoption #LearnBitcoin #BitcoinMentor #MentorSessions #Education #Humanity #Crypto #Cryptocurrency #BitcoinPodcast #Podcast #OrangePill

In this conversation, Daryl Davis shares his remarkable journey of engaging with members of the Ku Klux Klan and other white supremacist groups through music and conversation. He discusses his childhood experiences with racism, his quest for understanding, and how curiosity and empathy can bridge divides. Daryl emphasizes the importance of finding common ground, the core human values that unite us, and the role of narrative in shaping our beliefs. He advocates for open dialogue and the need to honor the past while building a more inclusive future.Episode Resources:MeetRene.comAmplifiimylife.comAmplifyBook.comhttps://www.daryldavis.com“The Klan Whisperer” by Daryl Davis - https://a.co/d/d0Cf2CGhttps://www.instagram.com/realdaryldavisEpisode Highlights:00:00 Introduction to a Living Legend04:04 Daryl's Journey and Early Experiences07:18 The Impact of Racism on a Young Mind10:12 Curiosity as a Catalyst for Change13:09 The Power of Music in Bridging Divides16:00 Conversations with Klansmen: A Unique Approach18:54 Finding Common Ground with Adversaries22:02 The Role of Travel in Understanding Humanity25:18 Changing Perceptions Through Dialogue28:10 The Five Core Values of Humanity31:03 Navigating Adversarial Situations33:58 The Importance of Offering Better Perceptions37:11 The Narrative Gap and Changing Beliefs41:20 Understanding Narrative Gaps44:00 The Power of Diversity and Inclusion46:53 Navigating Extremes in Conversations50:15 Pride and Identity: A Deeper Look53:10 Honoring the Past to Build the Future57:06 Exploring Potential and Self-Reflection

Ann and EJ sit down with Daryl Davis II, a candidate for City Council District 6, this week for the big story. We also discuss how anti-DEI is impacting TCU and TCC. We give you updates on redistricting talks at the county level as Tim O'Hare's voter fraud law firm gets approved for tens of thousands of our tax dollars.SHORT STORY #1: Anti-DEI impacts TCU and TCC:- TCU cuts Diversity & Inclusion office amid funding cut threats, higher-ed politicization- Tarrant GOP attacks TCU- Texas DEI ban leads to NAACP event abruptly moving from Tarrant County CollegeSHORT STORY #2: Updates on Redistricting- Tarrant County Republicans' plan to redraw commissioners' precincts worries Democrats- Tarrant County takes steps to redraw commissioners' precinctsSHORT STORY #3: State vs. Local Control- Legislation could overturn downtown Fort Worth district's authorityBIG STORY: Interview with Daryl Davis II City Council Candidate for District 6WINS AND LOSSESAnn:

The musician and actor Daryl Davis probably knows more about the Klu Klux Klan than any other living African-American. As the author of Klan-Destine Relationships and his latest The Klan Whisperer, Davis has written about not only his infiltration of the Klan but his befriending of regretful Klansmen like Scott Shepherd (My wife, Cassandra Knight, also wrote about her dinner with Shepherd). Davis' new book should probably be entitled My Life with the Klan. But as the ideas of the Klan have become more mainstream in the last few years, so the traditional KKK itself seems like a quaint relic of a more innocent past. In the old days, you had to hide under a white sheet to say dumb things about people of other colors or faiths. Now these same dumb assumptions are being openly peddled by powerful media figures and elected politicians. Here are the five KEEN ON AMERICA take-aways from our conversation with Davis:* The power of conversation as a tool against hatred: Davis emphasizes that conversation is "the greatest tool or weapon to dismantle conflict" despite being "the least expensive" and "the most underused." His approach involves engaging directly with KKK members to challenge their beliefs through dialogue rather than confrontation.* People can change their racist beliefs: Davis firmly believes that racist ideologies are learned behaviors that can be unlearned. He makes a distinction between inherent traits (like a leopard's spots) and acquired beliefs, arguing that "what can be learned can be unlearned." He provides concrete examples like Scott Shepard, a former Klansman who completely transformed his worldview.* Understanding racism through personal experience: Davis's background as a diplomat's son who traveled extensively gave him a unique perspective on racism. Having been exposed to diversity from an early age, he was shocked when he first experienced racism at age 10, which led to his lifelong quest to understand and combat prejudice.* Core human values transcend differences: Davis believes that regardless of background, all humans share five core values: wanting to be loved, respected, heard, treated fairly and truthfully, and wanting the same things for their families as others want for theirs. He uses this understanding as a foundation for connecting with people across ideological divides.* The importance of distinguishing between ignorance and stupidity: Davis makes a crucial distinction between people who are ignorant (lacking information) versus stupid (having information but ignoring it). He believes education and exposure can cure ignorance, which is why he focuses on providing information and personal connection to those with racist beliefs.Dr. Daryl Davis is an international recording artist who has performed and toured all 50 States and around the world. He has performed extensively with Chuck Berry, The Legendary Blues Band (formerly The Muddy Waters Blues Band), Elvis Presley's Jordanaires, and many others. As an actor Daryl received rave reviews for his stage role in The Time Of Your Life, and has done film and television roles including HBO's acclaimed series The Wire. As a race relations expert Dr. Daryl Davis has received numerous awards and high acclaim for his book Klan-Destine Relationships and his award-winning film documentary Accidental Courtesy. He is the first Black author to write a book on the Ku Klux Klan based upon in-person interviews and personal encounters. His ability to get racists to renounce their ideology has sent Daryl to travel all over the United States and the world to share his methodology.Keen On America is a reader-supported publication. To receive new posts and support my work, consider becoming a free or paid subscriber. This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit keenon.substack.com/subscribe

Daryl Davis is the featured subject of a documentary film by Matt Ornstein.

Getting KKK members to change their minds about race is kind of challenging, and potentially scary. Now imagine doing that as a black man. Well, Dr. Daryl Davis doesn't have to imagine it, he's been doing it for decades! And then, once we've talked about the big lies, lets have some little ones - its Two Truths and a Lie! GUEST Dr. Daryl Davis The Klan Whisperer daryldavis.com HOUSE BAND JAB heardmusic.com SPONSORS Eat smart with Factor. Get started at factormeals.com/factorpodcast and use code factorpodcast to get 50% off your first box plus free shipping.  Go to HelixSleep.com/paula for 27% Off Sitewide + 2 Free Dream Pillows with Mattress Purchase, plus a Free Bedding Bundle that includes an additional 2 Dream Pillows, a Sheet Set, and Mattress Protector, with any Luxe or Elite Mattress Order! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

I talk about why today, Inauguration Day in the US, we should take time to get to know the teachings of Daryl Davis. TedTalk https://youtu.be/fw0vS0qvYo0?si=tMEnrqt3hNb4FHWH Here is a 6 minute video if you are in a hurry https://youtu.be/X7g3XtTHprI?si=umvLlhnIYWLQDCKW His documentary can be found on Amazon, it is called Accidental Courtesy: Daryl Davis, Race & America and he is on episode 1419 of The Joe Rogan Experience. Ways to contact me: Google Voice Number for US callers: (540) 445-1145 Speakpipe for international callers: ⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.speakpipe.com/NerdsRPGVarietyCast⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ The podcast's email at nerdsrpgvarietycast 'at' gmail 'dot' com  Find me on a variety of discords including the Audio Dungeon Discord. Invite for the Audio Dungeon Discord ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://discord.gg/j5H8hGr⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠  Proud member of the Grog-talk Empire ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.grogcon.com/podcast⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Ray Otus did the coffee cup  art for this show

Can you use hate to make the world a better place? Daryl Davis, a world-class jazz musician, didn't just confront hate—he dismantled it. By sitting down with over 200 Ku Klux Klan members, he inspired them to leave their robes behind. But this isn't just a story about racism or redemption; it's a story about the incredible power of human connection and the lessons it holds for all of us. In this special episode, Dave explores how Daryl turned impossible conversations into transformative breakthroughs. Together, they unpack the mindset shifts, emotional intelligence, and fearless curiosity that can break down barriers of all kinds—whether they're rooted in bias, fear, or misunderstanding. Daryl's approach to erasing hate is so unique, so impactful, that it may just change how you view conflict, compassion, and even your own health. What You'll Learn: • How Daryl's global upbringing shaped his fearless approach to conflict • Why eliminating hate starts with understanding, not opposition • The neuroscience of compassion and how it rewires your brain • How forgiveness can transform your health and happiness • A step-by-step framework for tackling impossible conversations Resources: 2025 Biohacking Conference – https://biohackingconference.com/2025 Daryl Davis's Book: Klan-destine Relationships (Go read it for free at your local library instead of buying on Amazon :)) Daryl Davis's Website – https://www.daryldavis.com Daryl Davis on Instagram – https://www.instagram.com/realdaryldavis/ Danger Coffee – https://dangercoffee.com Dave Asprey's Website – https://daveasprey.com Dave Asprey's Book: Smarter Not Harder – https://daveasprey.com/books Dave Asprey's Linktree – https://linktr.ee/daveasprey Upgrade Collective: Join The Human Upgrade Podcast Live – https://www.ourupgradecollective.com Own an Upgrade Labs – https://ownanupgradelabs.com Upgrade Labs – https://upgradelabs.com 40 Years of Zen – Neurofeedback Training for Advanced Cognitive Enhancement – https://40yearsofzen.com Sponsors: -Quantum Upgrade | Go to https://quantumupgrade.io/Dave for a free trial. -Timeline | Head to https://www.timeline.com/dave to get 10% off your first order. Timestamps: • 00:00 A Shocking Parade Experience • 00:38 Meeting the KKK: First Impressions • 01:06 Introducing Daryl Davis • 03:46 Daryl's Unique Upbringing • 09:52 Confronting Racism: A Lifelong Quest • 14:16 The Power of Travel and Perspective • 18:25 A High School Encounter with Nazis • 21:12 Confronting the Klan Leader • 30:57 Changing Minds: A Personal Approach • 36:30 The Illusion of Latent Genes • 42:08 Collecting Klan Robes: A Symbolic Victory • 46:17 Facing the Klan: Staying Grounded • 48:27 Challenging Beliefs: Confronting Hate • 49:15 The Journey to Writing ‘Clandestine' • 50:26 Introducing ‘The Klan Whisperer' • 51:35 Reflections on Racism and History • 57:29 The Power of Forgiveness • 59:28 Freedom of Speech and Its Limits • 01:02:21 Personal Stories of Racism • 01:13:16 Cultural Understanding and Misunderstandings • 01:25:16 The Impact of Music on Memory • 01:29:02 Final Thoughts and Upcoming Events See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Michael M. Starr is an executive life coach with a rich background as a nuclear-trained submarine officer and a successful leader in the manufacturing industry, managing a multi-million dollar annual business. A seasoned problem-solver and adventurer, Mike has climbed Mount Kilimanjaro and paddled his way from Pittsburgh to New Orleans over 54 days. He is also an author, having penned "Journey Into Peace: A Language for Peace, Progress, and Healing," wherein he explores how language shapes our perception and interactions. Mike's current endeavors also include active participation in Al-Anon and the National Alliance on Mental Illness (NAMI), providing important support and insights for individuals dealing with mental health and substance abuse issues.Episode Summary:In this stirring episode of "Transform Your Mind to Transform Your Life," host Myrna invites distinguished author and executive coach Michael M. Starr to explore the profound impact language can have on our lives and relationships. The discussion pivots around Starr's insightful book, "Journey Into Peace," which introduces the novel concept of weaving empowering language for fostering peace, progress, and healing. Michael elaborates on how our everyday language can turn self-destructive but, with conscious change, can become a tool for personal empowerment and collective harmony.The conversation dives deep into dissecting the three types of language: dangerous tyrannical language, useless language, and wise, empowering language. Michael shares poignant anecdotes highlighting how labels and assumptions can sabotage our interactions and relationships, using real-world examples such as the transformative approach of Daryl Davis towards members of the Ku Klux Klan. Echoing his bountiful experience and keen insights, Mike underscores the vital role language plays in understanding and influencing others, advocating for empathy-driven communication strategies.Key Takeaways:Language shapes our perception of reality and significantly impacts our decision-making and relationships, either destructively or constructively.Avoid labeling and dehumanizing others; instead, embrace understanding and compassion to initiate meaningful dialogue and change.Dangerous and useless languages can derail relationships, whereas empowering language opens pathways for peace and progress.Empathy, boundaries, and consequential thinking are essential elements for effective and harmonious interpersonal communications.Building effective relationships involves respecting and understanding others' perspectives, paving the way for healthier organizations and personal lives.To advertise on our podcast, visit https://advertising.libsyn.com/TransformyourMindor email kriti@youngandprofiting.com See this video on The Transform Your Mind YouTube Channel https://www.youtube.com/@MyhelpsUs/videosTo see a transcripts of this audio as well as links to all the advertisers on the show page https://myhelps.us/Follow Transform Your Mind on Instagram https://www.instagram.com/myrnamyoung/Follow Transform Your mind on Facebookhttps://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100063738390977Please leave a rating and review on iTunes https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/transform-your-mind/id1144973094

Daryl Davis shares a unique perspective on the motivations behind white supremacy and what it takes to see the gradual transformation of KKK members. Hosts Elizabeth Oldfield and Alex Evans, delve into the extraordinary story of Daryl Davis, a Blues musician who has spent decades befriending and dialoguing with members of the Ku Klux Klan. Driven by a deep curiosity to understand the roots of racism, Daryl has taken an unconventional approach, choosing empathy and open communication over confrontation. Discover the profound impact one person can have in bridging the divide and fostering greater understanding between communities. If you enjoy episodes of The Sacred don't forget to hit subscribe to be notified whenever we release an episode!

In a society fractured by division and fear, the call to love your neighbor as yourself shines brighter than ever. Through the story of blues musician Daryl Davis, who befriended members of the KKK, we see how compassion can dismantle hatred and build bridges. True compassion is more than sympathy; it's empathy with action, as Jesus showed us time and again. Reflecting on the parable of the Good Samaritan and biblical lessons of humility, listening, and sacrificial love, we are challenged to live out Christ's example, actively engaging with the suffering around us. When we choose compassion, we embody God's love, a love that breaks barriers and transforms lives.

Daryl Davis a black blues musician will be speaking and performing at the Pennsylvania College of Art & Design in Lancaster Oct 4 at 3:30 p.m. Davis is currently the subject of an Independent Lens documentary. Davis says he was inspired musically by Elvis Presley and Chuck Berry. “I thought, my goodness, that's what I want to do. And what, you know, really inspired me about them was the fact that these two gentlemen and their contemporaries had made millions upon millions of people all over the world happy with their music. They had touched them.” Davis graduated from Howard University with a degree in jazz performance. He's played a lot of rock n' roll, country blues, boogie woogie, jazz, and big band swing. Davis performed with the late Chuck Berry, Little Richard, Jerry Lee Lewis, and many other artists.  He believes music is a powerful uniting force. Davis is also the author of Klan-destine Relationships:  A Black Man's Odyssey where he speaks about the power of conversation to ignite positive change, understanding hate groups in America, and how music broke down racial barriers in the 1950's and 1980's. After the performance, a guy came up to Davis praising his performance. The man told Davis he was a member of the Klu Klux Klan. That interaction posed a question for Davis. A question that has been haunting hum since he was 10 years old. “How can you hate me? You don't even know me. It fell right into your lap, and you didn't even realize it. Because who is the best person to ask? Who better to ask that question of than someone who would go so far as to join an organization that has over a 100-year history of practicing hating people who don't look like that or who don't believe as they believe? Get back in contact with that Klansman and ask him to set you up with the Klan leader for the state of Maryland. To a state leader is known as a grand dragon. It's what you and I would call a governor who heads of state, a national leader. You and I would call a president. They call it the Imperial wizard. So, I you know, I've told him myself, you know, get back in contact with that guy. Get him to set you up with the Grand Dragon interview. The Grand Dragon. Go up north. Go down south. Go to the Midwest. Go to the West. Interview other grand dragons, imperial wizards and other members. And write a book about it. Because all the books written on the Klan have been written by white people, you know, who had more access, they could sit down and interview Klan people. No black person had done that. So, I decided I would write the first book as a black author from the perspective of sitting down face to face with Klan leaders and members and interviewing them. And that's how I started.” As Davis continued to ask that question by speaking with KKK members, some became his friends, left the Klan, and gave him their robes and hoods. “And today, I own a ton of Klan robes and Klan hoods that have been given to me by active KKK leaders and members because they no longer believe in what those things stand for. As a result of these conversations.”    Support WITF: https://www.witf.org/support/give-now/See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

FAIR News Weekly | 9/10/24: A Second Chance for UniversitiesPlus, Diversity Won't Make Your Company More (Or Less) Productive; Living by virtuous lies: On the "racism" of the SAT; ‘When men become less critical to a society's security, masculinity takes a hit; Daryl Davis on Befriending the Klan | The Good Fight with Yascha Mounk; Why We Need to Talk About Shiloh.Read these stories and more in last week's FAIR News and FAIR Weekly Roundup.Sign up to receive newsletters by email at ⁠FairForAll.org/Join-Us⁠.FAIR Article 9/5/24: https://news.fairforall.org/p/a-second-chance-for-universitiesFAIR Weekly Roundup 9/8/24: https://news.fairforall.org/p/weekly-roundup-a98The Foundation Against Intolerance & Racism (FAIR) is a nonpartisan organization dedicated to advancing civil rights and liberties for all Americans, and promoting a common culture based on fairness, understanding, and humanity.Follow us on social media!⁠Twitter⁠: https://twitter.com/fairforall_org⁠Facebook⁠: https://www.facebook.com/Foundation-Against-Intolerance-Racism-10417260496818⁠Instagram⁠: https://www.instagram.com/fairforall_org/⁠LinkedIn⁠: https://www.linkedin.com/company/foundation-against-intolerance-and-racismPodcast Narrated by Gabriel Ashton Brown. Music by Rebecca Nisco. Produced by the Foundation Against Intolerance & Racism.

David Blankenhorn is an author, an activist, a community organizer, and the co-founder and President of Braver Angels. During our conversation, David talks about polarization in the United States, the workshops that Braver Angels puts together to bring together politically opposed Americans for conversation and common ground, the threat of division to the future of the country, the receding of a "civil religion" in the U.S., the importance of approaching disagreements with a sense of goodwill, and having hope in this dark time.------------Book a meeting with Dan------------Keep Talking SubstackRate on SpotifyRate on Apple PodcastsSocial media and all episodes------------Support via VenmoSupport on SubstackSupport on Patreon------------00:00 Intro00:37 The state of civic friendship in America04:27 The growth of Braver Angels11:22 What motivates Braver Angels' members?16:46 The work and mission of Braver Angels23:29 We're less polarized than we've been told27:34 Who is benefiting from social division?33:12 Habits to maintain one's humanity40:23 Politics replacing civic virtues in modern times49:37 George Kennan's threat of internal division55:34 The example of Daryl Davis

(***TIMESTAMPS in description below) ~ Trap Lore Ross is a British internet personality and content creator, known for his detailed video essays and analyses within the hip-hop and rap music scenes. - BUY Guest's Books & Films IN MY AMAZON STORE: https://amzn.to/3RPu952 EPISODE LINKS: - Julian Dorey PODCAST MERCH: https://juliandorey.myshopify.com/ - Support our Show on PATREON: https://www.patreon.com/JulianDorey - Join our DISCORD: https://discord.gg/Ajqn5sN6 - BBC Mike Rinder vs John Sweeney Video: https://vimeo.com/70762158 TRAP LORE ROSS'S LINKS: - ROSS'S YOUTUBE: https://www.youtube.com/c/TrapLoreRoss - ROSS'S TWITTER: https://x.com/traploreross?lang=en JULIAN YT CHANNELS: - SUBSCRIBE to Julian Dorey Clips YT: https://www.youtube.com/@juliandoreyclips - SUBSCRIBE to Julian Dorey Daily YT: https://www.youtube.com/@JulianDoreyDaily - SUBSCRIBE to Best of JDP: https://www.youtube.com/@bestofJDP ***TIMESTAMPS*** 00:00 - Trap Lore Ross in NY, Mafia Content, Hip Hop Expertise & Inspiration (Eminem)

“At the age of 10, I formed a question in my mind, which was: how can you hate me when you don't even know me? And now, for the next 56 years, I've been looking for the answer to that question.”The son of American Foreign Service members, Daryl Davis grew up in many different countries and was exposed to a variety of cultures, religions, and ideologies. He became an internationally renowned musician, touring and performing with the likes of Chuck Berry, Jerry Lee Lewis, and B.B. King. But a personal experience with bigotry at a young age made him curious about why people hate.“When I met this guy, he was a Grand Dragon. And he rose through the ranks to Imperial Wizard. And when he dropped out, because of this perception change and hanging out with me, he gave me his Klan robe and his hood,” says Mr. Davis.Today, Mr. Davis has made a second career out of befriending white supremacists, neo-Nazis, and members of the Ku Klux Klan, helping over 200 of them to renounce their racist ideology.“People ask me: Daryl, why don't you burn that stuff? No, I'm not going to burn it,” says Mr. Davis, referring to his Klan paraphernalia. “Yes, it is despicable. But it's also a part of our history. And you don't burn our history: the good, the bad, the ugly, and the shameful. You expose it, so it doesn't happen again.”In this episode, we dive into Mr. Davis's childhood, his passion for music, his encounters with the Klan, and the methodology he uses for helping them to renounce their racism.“The greatest weapon to combat racism, anti-Semitism, [and] all types of discrimination is the least expensive weapon known to man. It's free, yet it is the most underused. It's called conversation,” says Mr. Davis.Views expressed in this video are opinions of the host and the guest, and do not necessarily reflect the views of The Epoch Times.

Yascha Mounk and Daryl Davis discuss his lifetime of convincing Ku Klux Klan members to renounce racism. Daryl Davis is an American R&B and blues musician, author and social activist. Davis estimates he has been the direct or indirect cause for over 200 conversions from the Klan. He is also a member of the Board of Advisors for the Foundation Against Intolerance and Racism. In this week's conversation, Yascha Mounk and Daryl Davis discuss how a childhood experience with racism inspired him to interview and befriend members of the Ku Klux Klan; the importance of remaining “pro-human” even in the face of hatred and bigotry; and whether his faith in humanity feels out of tune with the current political moment. This transcript has been condensed and lightly edited for clarity. Please do listen and spread the word about The Good Fight. If you have not yet signed up for our podcast, please do so now by following this link on your phone. Email: podcast@persuasion.community  Website: http://www.persuasion.community Podcast production by Jack Shields, and Brendan Ruberry Connect with us! Spotify | Apple | Google Twitter: @Yascha_Mounk & @joinpersuasion Youtube: Yascha Mounk LinkedIn: Persuasion Community Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

On today's episode, Luis is joined by Daryl Davis whose efforts to fight racism by engaging members of the Ku Klux Klan (KKK) resulted in over 200 klansmen leaving and denouncing the KKK. Luis and Daryl have an intriguing discussion about his experience with, and curiosity about, racism. Luis and Daryl discuss:Daryl's first direct encounter with racism and the question that experience spurred in himWhy Daryl takes racism seriously, but not personallyHis first encounter with a KKK memberWhy he isn't triggered by racist slurs and stereotypesWhy his intent is never to convince or convert a klansmenYou can learn about Daryl's work at: https://www.daryldavis.com/You can read more about, and register for, the Embodied Nutrition slow group here: https://www.holisticlifenavigation.com/slow-practice-nutrition-groupYou can read more about, and register for, the Embodied Parenting slow group here: https://www.holisticlifenavigation.com/parenting-group You can register for the Cravings De-Stigmatized webinar here: https://www.holisticlifenavigation.com/cravings-destigmatized-webinar

The ongoing crackdown on protests at many American universities prompts a discussion on the politics, ethics, and metaphysics of free expression. Support us on Patreon (https://www.patreon.com/weirdstudies). Buy the Weird Studies soundtrack, volumes 1 (https://pierre-yvesmartel.bandcamp.com/album/weird-studies-music-from-the-podcast-vol-1) and 2 (https://pierre-yvesmartel.bandcamp.com/album/weird-studies-music-from-the-podcast-vol-2), on Pierre-Yves Martel's Bandcamp (https://pierre-yvesmartel.bandcamp.com) page. Listen to Meredith Michael and Gabriel Lubell's podcast, Cosmophonia (https://cosmophonia.podbean.com/). Visit the Weird Studies Bookshop (https://bookshop.org/shop/weirdstudies) Find us on Discord (https://discord.com/invite/Jw22CHfGwp) Get the T-shirt design from Cotton Bureau (https://cottonbureau.com/products/can-o-content#/13435958/tee-men-standard-tee-vintage-black-tri-blend-s)! REFERENCES Virginia Woolf, A Room of One's Own (https://bookshop.org/a/18799/9780156787338) Federico Campagna, Technic and Magic (https://bookshop.org/a/18799/9781350044029) George Orwell, The Prevention of Literature (https://www.orwellfoundation.com/the-orwell-foundation/orwell/essays-and-other-works/the-prevention-of-literature/) George Orwell, Inside the Whale (https://orwell.ru/library/essays/whale/english/e_itw) New York Times, “At Indiana University, Protests Only Add to a Full Year of Conflicts (https://www.nytimes.com/2024/05/02/us/indiana-university-protest-encampment.html) John Stuart Mill, On Liberty (https://bookshop.org/a/18799/9780521379175) Indiana Daily Student, “Provost Addresses Controversy” (https://www.idsnews.com/article/2024/01/provost-addresses-controversy-suspension-palestinian-artist-bfc) Official government page for the Proposed Bill to address Online (https://www.canada.ca/en/canadian-heritage/services/online-harms.html) Harms in Canada. Immanuel Kant, Groundwork of the Metaphysics of Morals (https://bookshop.org/a/18799/9781515436874) GK Chesterton, Orthodoxy (https://bookshop.org/a/18799/9781511903608) Daryl Davis (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daryl_Davis), American musician and activist DavidFoster Wallace, Just Asking (https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2007/11/just-asking/306288/)

Daryl Davis is a musician & author. He's also a black man who chooses to be friends with Klansmen. Over his lifetime, he has inspired over 200 Klu Klux Klan members to give up their robes. In this episode he shares about the boyscout parade where he got a race reality check, FBI files, the connection between travel & racism, his first encounter with a klansmen, his first KKK friend & true transformation in the age of cancel culture.Today he's going to share how this came about and his hopes for real progress in America. If you liked this episode, you'll also like episode 134: HE VOTED OBAMA & JOINED THE KKK: the How & the Why (PART 1)Request to join my private Facebook group to give your opinion & participate in giveaways https://www.facebook.com/groups/mfrcuriousinsiders/Guest: https://www.daryldavis.com/ | https://twitter.com/RealDarylDavis | https://www.instagram.com/realdaryldavis/ | https://www.facebook.com/DarylDavisRaceReconciliatorHost:  https://www.meredithforreal.com/  | https://www.instagram.com/meredithforreal/  | meredith@meredithforreal.com | https://www.youtube.com/meredithforreal  | https://www.facebook.com/meredithforrealthecuriousintrovertSponsors: https://www.jordanharbinger.com/starterpacks/ | Ready to shop better hydration, use my special link https://zen.ai/meredithforrealthecuriousintrovert1 to save 20% off anything you order |  https://uwf.edu/university-advancement/departments/historic-trust/ | https://www.ensec.net/

Comedian Shapel Lacey joins Jason and Tully and discusses Daryl Davis, the truth about wrestlers, Backflips, Gymnastics, Dating, Stoicism, The Hardcore Punk Scene, Patrice, Tim Dillon, Neal Brennan, Louisville, Opening for Attell, Cat Scratch Fever, Hairless Animals, Slimming Down, Redondo Beach, Cheerleader Fails, Being a Touring Comedian, and who's a better skater. Claim your free 3 piece towel set and save over 40% off! Go to trymiracle.com/ELLIS  PROMO CODE: ELLIS Free Shipping of mountain water, flavored sparkling, and iced tea 8 packs with Amazon Prime.  Go to liquiddeath.com/ELLIS Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

To get a free copy of the Infectious Generosity book, visit ted.com/generosity Daryl Davis is a Black musician and actor who regularly enters white nationalist spaces. That's because Daryl is determined to understand the source of bigotry – by actually talking to the humans he disagrees with. Chris interviews Daryl about his unique approach, from attending KKK rallies to joining all-white country bands. Then, Daryl shares why he chooses curiosity over fear and why he still believes, despite our current divisions, humanity is in a bright spot. Transcripts for The TED Interview are available at: go.ted.com/TTIscripts

Rob is a huge admirer of the incredible activist and R&B musician Daryl Davis. He is the first Black author to write a book on the Ku Klux Klan (KKK) based on in-person interviews, and he has convinced dozens of Klansmen to leave and denounce the hate group. Today, Daryl joins Rob to discuss his incredible activism work, the power of conversation, his experiences meeting with the KKK as a Black man, and playing with legends like Chuck Berry and B.B. King. Got a question for Rob? Call our voicemail at (323) 570-4551. Your question could get featured on the show!

You aren't supposed to become friends with the people who hate you—but that's exactly what Daryl Davis did. After a chance encounter with a KKK member in a Maryland bar, Daryl struck up a friendship that changed both of their lives. The KKK member renounced the group, and Daryl got access to do the thing he wanted: become the first African-American to write a book on the KKK based on first-person interviews. Through the years, as the men Daryl has met and befriended have left the Klan behind, he's collected a closet full of their robes, flags, and memorabilia. Davis' is personally responsible for some 50 men leaving the Klan behind, and indirectly responsible for some 200 more. How? His secret weapon is friendship. He is an incredibly aggressive man with a story you have to hear to believe. 

Acclaimed musician and recording artist Daryl Davis has interviewed hundreds of KKK members and other White supremacists and influenced many of them to renounce their racist ideology. We hear his brave and remarkable story. Daryl's personal quest began many years ago, after a concert when he was in a country music band. A card-carrying member of the Ku Klux Klan praised his piano playing. Daryl recognized that he had an opportunity to ask an important question about racism: “How can you hate me when you don't even know me?”  Daryl Davis is the author of "Klan-Destine Relationships"— the first book written about the Ku Klux Klan by a Black writer. His work in race relations has been highlighted in speaker series across the country. His documentary film, "Accidental Courtesy", features his process of conversation and understanding to bridge differences and promote racial reconciliation.