Science Salon

What if the deepest human drive isn't happiness, survival, or even love, but the need to matter? Philosopher and MacArthur Fellow Rebecca Newberger Goldstein joins Michael Shermer to discuss The Mattering Instinct, her argument that the desire to feel significant lies at the core of human behavior. That drive helps explain our greatest achievements, from creativity and moral courage to scientific and artistic excellence. It also helps explain some of our darkest outcomes, including extremism, violence, and ideological fanaticism. Goldstein examines why people will give up comfort, status, and sometimes even their own lives to feel that they matter. She questions why meaning cannot be captured by happiness metrics or self-help formulas, and why the same psychological force can produce saints, scientists, athletes, cult leaders, and terrorists. The conversation moves through free will, entropy, morality without God, fame, narcissism, and the crucial difference between ways of mattering that create order and those that leave damage behind. Rebecca Newberger Goldstein is an award-winning philosopher, writer, and public intellectual. She is the author of ten books of acclaimed fiction and non-fiction, including 36 Arguments for the Existence of God: A Work of Fiction and Betraying Spinoza: The Renegade Jew Who Gave Us Modernity. She holds a PhD in philosophy of science from Princeton University and has taught at Yale, Columbia, NYU, Dartmouth, and Harvard. A fellow of the American Academy of Arts and Sciences, her work has been supported by the MacArthur "Genius" grant and fellowships from the Guggenheim, Whiting Institute, Radcliffe Institute, and the National Science Foundation. Her new book is The Mattering Instinct: How Our Deepest Longing Drives Us and Divides Us.

In this unscripted solo episode, Michael Shermer reflects on a dizzying start to the year and what it reveals about truth, power, and public judgment. From events in Venezuela and the limits of exporting democracy to a viral Planet Fitness controversy, the Minneapolis ICE shooting, and renewed claims about aliens, Shermer keeps returning to the same question: What actually helps, and what only feels like a good idea in the moment?

What if the way we approach mental health is quietly making things worse? Psychiatrist and psychotherapist Sami Timimi joins Michael Shermer to examine some of the core assumptions behind modern psychiatry. Why have diagnoses such as ADHD, autism, anxiety, and depression expanded so dramatically—and why hasn't increased access to treatment led to better outcomes at the population level? Timimi describes how diagnostic categories have broadened over time and questions whether psychiatric labels function in the same way as medical diagnoses elsewhere in healthcare. Without clear biological markers, he argues, definitions can expand to include forms of distress that were once considered part of ordinary human experience. The conversation also considers the role of meaning, identity, and culture in shaping how people understand psychological suffering. Timimi reflects on the limits of medication and therapy, the unintended consequences of the "mental illness as physical illness" model, and how social media may contribute to the spread and reinforcement of certain diagnostic categories. Dr. Sami Timimi is a child and adolescent psychiatrist, psychotherapist, and Fellow of the Royal College of Psychiatrists. He has published more than 150 academic papers and authored or edited over a dozen books, including Naughty Boys, Liberatory Psychiatry, and The Myth of Autism. His new book is Searching for Normal: A New Approach to Understanding Mental Health, Distress, and Neurodiversity.

What is consciousness, really? Why does it not simply switch on at a single moment? Neuroscientist Niko Kukushkin explains how even single cells can show primitive forms of memory and agency, why the human mind is not a mysterious force floating above biology, and why reducing it to "just neurons" misses what actually matters. He also discusses the evolutionary gamble of complexity, why bacteria still dominate the planet, and how abstraction and memory together give rise to thought. At the center of the conversation is an unsettling question: Why does it feel so special to be you when science says that you are nothing but a chemical reaction—a collection of atoms and molecules, like rocks, paperclips, and everything else in the physical universe? Nikolay Kukushkin is a clinical associate professor at New York University and a research fellow at NYU's Center for Neural Science, where he studies how temporal patterns shape memory formation. He holds degrees from St. Petersburg State University and Oxford University, and completed postdoctoral training at Harvard Medical School. He is the author of a recent paper in Nature Communications demonstrating canonical memory in non-neural cells. His book is One Hand Clapping.

Francis Crick is best known as one of the figures behind the discovery of the double-helix structure of DNA, but the familiar story leaves out as much as it explains. Historian of science Matthew Cobb looks closely at how Crick's life actually unfolded, revealing a career shaped less by inevitability than by luck, conflict, false starts, and a series of highly contingent moments. The double helix itself may have been waiting to be found, but what followed was anything but predetermined. Crick's influence came from asking uncomfortable questions about what the structure of DNA implied for genetics, evolution, and life itself. Along the way, myths hardened around personalities, credit, and rivalries, especially in the case of Rosalind Franklin, whose role has been both misunderstood and oversimplified. The conversation also traces Crick's later turn away from molecular biology toward the problem that fascinated him from the beginning: consciousness. From visual perception to the search for neural correlates of experience, his ambition was to push back against mystical explanations and insist that even the most elusive aspects of the mind belonged to the material world. Matthew Cobb is a professor in the School of Biological Sciences at the University of Manchester. He is the author of numerous works of science and history. His new book is Crick: A Mind in Motion, a biography of the legendary scientist Francis Crick, co-discoverer of the structure of DNA.

What do you do when someone believes you shouldn't exist? Daryl Davis didn't protest. He didn't shout. He sat down, asked questions, and kept showing up. Over decades, that approach has led more than 200 Ku Klux Klan members and white supremacists to walk away from their robes for good. In this conversation, Davis explains why people radicalize, and what happens psychologically when prejudice collides with a real human being. He shares stories from inside Klan meetings, lessons learned from neo-Nazis, and why today's climate of polarization may actually be an opportunity rather than a dead end. Daryl Davis earned his Bachelor of Music degree from Howard University and an Honorary Doctorate in Humane Letters from Post University. He is the author of Klan-Destine Relationships and the subject of the multi-award-winning documentary Accidental Courtesy, which chronicles his work in race reconciliation. A lifelong musician, he has performed with Chuck Berry and President Bill Clinton, and as an actor appeared in HBO's The Wire.

Open inquiry depends on the ability to ask uncomfortable questions and follow evidence wherever it leads. Eric Kaufmann argues that this norm is now under strain. Drawing on history, survey data, and political theory, Kaufmann outlines how certain identity categories came to be treated as morally sacred—and how that shift has reshaped debates about equality, free speech, and academic inquiry. The conversation examines the long roots of today's culture conflicts, the move from equal opportunity to equal outcomes, and why disagreement is increasingly interpreted as moral transgression rather than intellectual difference. At stake is what happens to liberal societies when some questions can no longer be asked, nd whether open inquiry can still be defended without abandoning concern for fairness and dignity Eric Kaufmann is a professor of politics and Director of the Centre for Heterodox Social Science at the University of Buckingham. He has written for The New York Times, Wall Street Journal, Times of London, Newsweek, National Review, New Statesman, Financial Times, and other outlets. His new book is The Third Awokening.

Brain-computer interfaces are moving out of the lab and into real medical use. In this episode of The Michael Shermer Show, Michael Shermer talks with Dr. Matt Angle, founder and CEO of Paradromics, a neurotechnology company developing one of the most advanced high-data-rate brain implants in the world, similar to Neuralink. These devices record activity from individual neurons, making it possible to restore speech in people with paralysis, reconnect the brain to external devices, and potentially treat chronic pain and neurological disorders with far greater precision than existing approaches. Angle explains why progress in neuroscience has been limited not by biology, but by data—how much information we can actually read from the brain, and how fast. He describes how patients who can no longer speak may soon communicate fluently using only brain signals, why invasive implants can sometimes be safer than long-term drug treatments, and what it takes to bring a brain implant through FDA approval and into the clinic. The conversation also touches on the larger questions raised by this technology, including autonomy, consciousness, and what happens when the boundary between brain and machine begins to blur. Matt Angle is the Founder and CEO of Paradromics, a neurotechnology leader developing the world's most advanced and clinically viable brain-computer interface (BCI) platform—bridging human thought and digital capability. Paradromics' BCI platform records brain activity with unmatched precision, capturing data at the level of individual neurons. This advanced technology enables the decoding of vast amounts of brain data, opening the door to next-generation treatments for paralysis, chronic pain, addiction, mental health conditions, and more. With the power of AI, this platform has the potential to radically shift how healthcare providers approach some of the most challenging medical conditions. Angle earned his PhD in Neuroscience from the University of Heidelberg, followed by postdoctoral research at Stanford University. Paradromics engineered its first clinical product, the Connexus® BCI, received two FDA Breakthrough Device Designations, and performed the first-in-human neural recording in May 2025. The company is now preparing to launch a clinical trial in early 2026, pending regulatory approval.

At the turn of the 20th century, millions of Americans, including elite scientists, major newspapers, and cultural icons, were convinced that Mars was home to an advanced civilization. In this episode, Michael Shermer speaks with award-winning science journalist David Baron about one of the most astonishing episodes in scientific-cultural history. Blurry telescopes, mistranslated words, and persuasive personalities transformed speculation into accepted fact, while more cautious scientists struggled to be heard. The discussion covers Percival Lowell's Martian canals, Nikola Tesla's claim to have detected signals from another planet, and the role of mass media and early science fiction in fueling public belief. The episode also connects this forgotten moment to present-day debates about UFOs, alien megastructures, and the search for extraterrestrial intelligence, raising broader questions about how scientific ideas spread and why some claims capture the public imagination. David Baron is an award-winning journalist, broadcaster, and author. A former science correspondent for NPR, he has also written for The New York Times, The Washington Post, The Wall Street Journal, The Los Angeles Times, Scientific American, and other publications. David recently served as the Baruch S. Blumberg NASA/Library of Congress Chair in Astrobiology, Exploration, and Scientific Innovation. His new book is The Martians: The True Story of an Alien Craze that Captured Turn-of-the-Century America.

What if the great discoveries of science came in the "wrong" order? The Laws of Thermodynamics were discovered well after the creation of algebra, classical physics, and chemistry, but are perhaps much more important to our basic understanding of the universe. Chris Edwards argues that AI will be able to understand science outside of the traditional chronological developments of the sciences, unlocking entirely new potentials and perspectives on the universe. If human scholars are to understand how AI interprets the universe, we will first need to understand the scientific narrative in a "new order." Chris Edwards teaches history, English, and mathematics at a public school in the Midwest. He is a frequent contributor to Skeptic magazine and the author of Thought Experiments: History and Applications for Education, Beyond Obsolete: How to Upgrade Classroom Practice and School Structure, Femocracy: How Educators Can Teach Democratic Ideals and Feminism, and most recently of The New Order: How AI Rewrites the Narrative of Science. His background is in world history.

Criminal profiling promises certainty in the face of horror: this is what a killer looks like, this is how they think, this is how we stop them. But what if that promise is mostly an illusion? In this episode, Michael Shermer is joined by journalist and author Rachel Corbett to dismantle the myths behind criminal profiling, from the FBI's Behavioral Science Unit to our obsession with serial killers, mindhunters, and "psychological fingerprints." Corbett explains why randomness is harder to accept than evil, and how our hunger for neat explanations can actually make us less safe. Plus, the legacy of MKUltra and Ted Kaczynski, the seductive appeal of true crime, and the uncomfortable truth behind the "Jekyll and Hyde" problem: monsters rarely look like monsters. Rachel Corbett is a features writer at New York magazine, and her writing has also appeared in The New Yorker, The New York Times, and The Atlantic. She is the author of You Must Change Your Life, which won the Marfield Prize, the National Award for Arts Writing. Her new book is The Monsters We Make: Murder, Obsession, and the Rise of Criminal Profiling.

For nearly two centuries, international relations have been premised on the idea of the "Great Powers." As the thinking went, these mighty states—the European empires of the nineteenth century, the United States and the USSR during the Cold War—were uniquely able to exert their influence on the world stage because of their overwhelming military capabilities. But this conception of power fails to capture the more complicated truth about how wars are fought and won.  Our focus on the importance of large, well-equipped armies and conclusive battles has obscured the foundational forces that underlie military victories and the actual mechanics of successful warfare. Phillips O'Brien suggests a new framework of "full-spectrum powers," taking into account all of the diverse factors that make a state strong—from economic and technological might, to political stability, to the complex logistics needed to maintain forces in the field.  Drawing on examples ranging from Napoleon's France to today's ascendant China, he offers a critical new understanding of what makes a power truly great. Phillips Payson O'Brien is a professor of strategic studies and head of the School of International Relations at the University of St. Andrews in Scotland. He is the author of six books, including his latest War and Power: Who Wins Wars—and Why.

In this episode of The Michael Shermer Show, Michael sits down with two giants of mind and machine science: Jay McClelland, one of the founders of modern neural networks, and Gaurav Suri, computational neuroscientist and director of the RAD Lab. Drawing from decades of research, they walk us through the revolution from behaviorism to cognitive psychology to modern neuroscience, and why simple interacting units can give rise to astonishingly complex behaviors.  From why we perceive letters differently in context to how memory works, why consciousness remains baffling, and what AI is (and isn't) actually doing, this episode dives deep into the mechanics of all levels of thought, mind, and even consciousness. Jay McClelland is a professor of psychology and of computer science and linguistics at Stanford University. He is one of the most influential and well-known cognitive scientists of the past century. He is the founder of the study of artificial neural networks, and his publications have been cited more than 100,000 times. He is a member of the National Academy of Sciences and a Corresponding Fellow of the British Academy. Gaurav Suri is an associate professor of psychology at San Francisco State University. He is a computational neuroscientist and an experimental psychologist. He is the director of RADLab, where he studies the mechanisms that shape motivated action and decision making. He is the co-author of the prize-winning novel A Certain Ambiguity and several dozen influential research papers.   Their new book is The Emergent Mind: How Intelligence Arises in People and Machines.

Astrobiologist Caleb Scharf joins Michael Shermer for a wide-ranging conversation about the past, present, and future of our relationship with space. Drawing on his new book The Giant Leap, Scharf explains why human expansion beyond Earth may be less a choice than an evolutionary development, and he walks through the physics, history, and personalities that shaped our journey off the planet. Scharf also explains the biological toll of radiation and microgravity, and why terraforming Mars is probably unrealistic and why our future might rely more on building vast rotating habitats in space than on settling other planets. Caleb Scharf is an astrobiologist and recipient of the 2022 Carl Sagan Medal. He was Director of Astrobiology at Columbia University in New York and is now the Senior Scientist for Astrobiology at the NASA Ames Research Center in Silicon Valley. He is author of more than 120 scientific papers and over 500 popular science articles. His new book is The Giant Leap: Why Space is the Next Frontier in the Evolution of Life. 

In this episode, Michel-Yves Bolloré lays out his case for why modern cosmology, fine-tuning, and the limits of materialism point toward a creator. Drawing on physics, thermodynamics, probability, and philosophy, he argues that the Big Bang, the apparent beginning of the universe, and the complexity of life collectively form a compelling body of evidence for God's existence. Bolloré explains why he believes the universe is not eternal, why "nothing" cannot produce "something," how moral red lines suggest a transcendent source, and how he reconciles scientific reasoning with his Christian faith, while Michael Shermer gently but rigorously presses him with questions to elicit his strongest arguments. Michel-Yves Bolloré is an engineer and entrepreneur whose career spans industrial innovation and philanthropic investment in education. He is a graduate of the École Nationale Supérieure d'Ingénieur de Toulouse and Paris-Dauphine University (Master of Science and Doctorate in Business Administration). He founded several schools, including The Laurels in London and Les Vignes in France. He is also a Knight of the Legion of Honor. His new book is God: the Science and the Evidence.

Have you ever thought about the science and history of … wind? In this episode, Simon Winchester explains why eastbound flights are usually faster than flying west, and how the discovery of the jet stream was almost missed because the original research was published in Esperanto. He also talks about the debate over the Great Terrestrial Stilling—the idea that global wind speeds may be decreasing—and why newer measurements suggest the trend may be reversing. Winchester describes how and where the highest wind speed ever recorded was measured, the increasing frequency of clear-air turbulence (the kind that causes sudden drops during flights), why only one flag placed on the Moon fell, the techniques used by Polynesian navigators to cross vast stretches of ocean without instruments, and the challenges faced by early wartime pilots who unintentionally flew into the jet stream. Simon Winchester is the acclaimed author of many books, including The Professor and the Madman, which was adapted into a film starring Mel Gibson and Sean Penn, as well as The Men Who United the United States, The Map That Changed the World, The Man Who Loved China, A Crack in the Edge of the World, and Krakatoa. His books have been New York Times bestsellers and have appeared on numerous best-of-the-year lists. In 2006 he was appointed an Officer of the Order of the British Empire (OBE) by Her Majesty the Queen.

In this episode, Angus Fletcher explains why the human brain doesn't work like a computer and why our deepest strengths come not from logic or data processing but from imagination, emotion, and the ability to invent new futures. Drawing on neuroscience, Shakespeare, evolutionary biology, and his work with U.S. Army Special Operations, Fletcher shows how storytelling is the brain's oldest "technology," why intelligence is rooted in action rather than analysis, and what most people get wrong about creativity and common sense. Angus Fletcher is a professor of story science at Ohio State's Project Narrative, the world's leading academic think tank dedicated to understanding how stories work. He earned his PhD from Yale, conducted postdoctoral research at Stanford, and in 2023 received the U.S. Army's Commendation Medal for his groundbreaking work with Army Special Operations on primal intelligence. He has also written screenplays for major Hollywood studios and networks. His new book is Primal Intelligence: You Are Smarter Than You Know.

War begins in the human mind long before it unfolds on the battlefield. In this episode, Michael Shermer sits down with Nicholas Wright, a neurologist, neuroscientist, security strategist, and advisor to the Pentagon, to explore one of the biggest questions of our time: why do humans fight, and how does the brain shape violence, leadership, and geopolitical decision-making? Nicholas Wright is a member of the Royal Colleges of Physicians and a neuroscientist who researches the brain, technology, and security at University College London, Georgetown University, and the Center for Strategic and International Studies in Washington, DC. He worked as a neurology doctor in London and Oxford, and has published numerous academic papers which have been covered by the BBC and The New York Times. His new book is Warhead: How the Brain Shapes War and War Shapes the Brain.

Why do smart people join dangerous cults, follow bad leaders, or stay silent when they know something's wrong? In this episode, Michael Shermer talks with organizational psychologist Colin Fisher about the science of group dynamics and conformity. From jazz bands to political mobs, Fisher explains how our evolutionary need to belong both unites and blinds us. He discusses the psychology of revenge, polarization, social media extremism, and why our brains are wired to dehumanize "the other." What makes a group innovative instead of dogmatic? And how close are we—really—to turning everyday politics into a cult? Colin M. Fisher is an Associate Professor of Organizations and Innovation at University College London's School of Management. His research focuses on helping groups and teams in situations requiring creativity, improvisation, and complex decision-making. He has written about group dynamics for both popular science and management audiences, and his work has been profiled in prominent media outlets such as BBC, Forbes, NPR, and The Times. His new book is The Collective Edge: Unlocking the Secret Power of Groups.

In this episode, Michael Shermer explores anomalous experiences through personal anecdotes and historical examples. He reflects on how to balance healthy skepticism with open-mindedness, and how to reckon with the very real emotional significance of such experiences—regardless of the scientific explanations behind them.

A former senior intelligence officer explains how espionage is evolving in the age of AI and amid rising global tensions with China, and why the mass harvesting of data affects not just nation-states, but all of us. The discussion also explores the history of spying, what life is really like for intelligence officers, and major intelligence failures and scandals, including 9/11 and Edward Snowden's unauthorized disclosures about the NSA. Anthony Vinci served as the first Chief Technology Officer at the National Geospatial-Intelligence Agency (NGA). Earlier in his career he served in Iraq, Africa, and Asia. He is an Adjunct Senior Fellow at the Center for a New American Security (CNAS) and received his PhD in International Relations from the London School of Economics. His new book is The Fourth Intelligence Revolution: The Future of Espionage and the Battle to Save America.

Archaeologist Ken Feder sheds light on how archaeology separates evidence from wishful thinking and entertaining storytelling. He explains what rock art, radiocarbon dating, and DNA can really tell us about the first peoples of the Americas, and talks about the different theories about ancient human migration and the impact of European contact on Native American populations. He also shares what we know about Atlantis, the Lost Tribes of Israel, and what to make of Graham Hancock's visions of an ancient apocalypse. Kenneth L. Feder is professor emeritus of anthropology at Central Connecticut State University. His new book is Native America: The Story of the First People.

Michael Shermer sits down with Charles Murray (author of The Bell Curve, Coming Apart, and now Taking Religion Seriously) for a riveting 100-minute conversation about Murray's late-life turn from Harvard-bred agnosticism (“Smart people don't believe that stuff anymore”) to Bayesian theism (“I put the afterlife at just over 50%”). This wide-ranging discussion explores the evidence for the existence of God and the afterlife, the problem of evil, and the historical growth of Christianity. They also delve into topics such as the nature of consciousness, terminal lucidity, and even evolutionary vs. religious perspectives on love. A thought-provoking exploration for skeptics, seekers, and anyone wondering whether the universe has a purpose. Charles Murray is a policy analyst educated at Harvard and MIT and currently serves as the Hayek Emeritus Scholar at the American Enterprise Institute. He is the author of several influential books, including the controversial The Bell Curve, Coming Apart, and Facing Reality. His most recent book is Taking Religion Seriously.

In this episode, Harvard primatologist Christine Webb challenges one of our deepest beliefs: that humans stand apart from the rest of nature. She traces the roots of human exceptionalism from Aristotle and Descartes to modern science, and explains why we still cling to hierarchies of intelligence. While most critiques of human exceptionalism focus on our moral obligation toward other species, Webb argues that they overlook what humanity stands to gain by letting go of its illusions of uniqueness and superiority. Christine Webb is a primatologist at Harvard's Department of Human Evolutionary Biology, with expertise in social behavior, cognition, and emotion. Her new book is The Arrogant Ape: The Myth of Human Exceptionalism and Why it Matters.

Are we entering a Fifth Great Awakening—a cultural swing back toward religion? An increasing number of books and articles are calling for a religious revival. “We need religion to keep our society functioning.” “People need meaning.” Michael Shermer responds to and revisits the historical waves of religious fervor that shaped American life. He also asks what today's renewed interest in faith, spirituality, and meaning says about our culture. Featuring commentary on new books by Ayaan Hirsi Ali and Charles Murray, and a preview of Helen Pluckrose's new article for Skeptic.

Pulitzer-winner Caroline Fraser maps the lives and crimes of Ted Bundy and his infamous peers—the Green River Killer, the I-5 Killer, the Night Stalker, the Hillside Strangler, and even Charles Manson—and explores an intriguing hypothesis: might environmental factors have played a role in the rise of serial killers in the 1970s and '80s? Caroline Fraser is the author of Prairie Fires: The American Dreams of Laura Ingalls Wilder, which won the Pulitzer Prize. She is also the author of God's Perfect Child: Living and Dying in the Christian Science Church, and her writing has appeared in The New York Review of Books, The New Yorker, The Atlantic, Los Angeles Times, and London Review of Books, among other publications. Her new book is Murderland: Crime and Bloodlust in the Time of Serial Killers.

First installment of our new series Shermer Says.  Topics covered: Debate Skills Nobel Peace Prize 2025 Autism & Tylenol COVID Vaccines & Myocarditis ANTIFA Bari Weiss & CBS News New Skeptic Research Center Study

For many decision scientists, their starting point—drawn from economics—is a quantitative formula called Rational Choice Theory, allowing people to calculate and choose the best options. The problem is that this framework assumes an overly simplistic picture of the world, in which different types of values can be quantified and compared, leading to the “most rational” choice. Behavioral economics acknowledges that irrationality is common but still accepts the underlying belief from economics of what a rational decision should look like.   Drawing from economics, psychology, and philosophy—and both inspired by and challenging Daniel Kahneman's Thinking, Fast and Slow—Barry Schwartz shows how the focus on rationality, narrowly understood, fails to fully describe how we think about our decisions, much less help us make better ones. Barry Schwartz is professor emeritus of psychology at Swarthmore College and visiting professor at Haas School of Business, University of California, Berkeley. His research and writing focus on the intersection of psychology and economics, particularly with regard to decision-making, intrinsic and extrinsic motivation, and the nature of human values. His books include The Paradox of Choice, Why We Work, and (as coauthor) Practical Wisdom. His new book, co-authored with the philosopher Richard Schuldenfrei, is Choose Wisely: Rationality, Ethics, and the Art of Decision-Making.

Why do we crave revenge? And why can't we stop? In this episode, James Kimmel explains the neuroscience behind one of our most destructive urges. Drawing from his new book, The Science of Revenge: Understanding the World's Deadliest Addiction, Kimmel reveals how revenge activates the same brain circuits as drugs like cocaine—and why even imagining payback can feel euphoric. If you've ever fantasized about revenge (and who hasn't?), whether in politics or personal relationships, this episode offers a chilling yet hopeful look at the science of moral outrage and redemption. James Kimmel, Jr., JD, is a lecturer in psychiatry at the Yale School of Medicine, a lawyer, and the founder and co-director of the Yale Collaborative for Motive Control Studies. A breakthrough scholar and expert on revenge, he first identified compulsive revenge seeking as an addiction and developed the behavioral addiction model of revenge as a public health approach for preventing and treating violence. His new book is The Science of Revenge: Understanding the World's Deadliest Addiction—and How to Overcome It.

What really defines a cult—and why do smart, well-intentioned people get caught up in them? In this episode, Michael Shermer sits down with cult intervention specialist Ashlen Hilliard to explore the psychology of high-control groups and the people drawn into them. Her work has been featured in prominent media outlets like Hulu, NewsNation, HuffPost, and BET+. In 2022, Ashlen founded People Leave Cults, offering intervention and recovery resources for survivors and concerned loved ones. As one of the few Cult Intervention Specialists in the country, Ashlen consults with a team of experts to develop personalized intervention strategies for families that have a loved one involved in a range of coercive situations, including cults, gangs, domestic violence, trafficking, and violent extremism. She also served as the Director of Events for the International Cultic Studies Association (ICSA), organizing regional and international events, workshops, and conferences for those affected by the cult phenomena and psychological manipulation. She is touring the Fall of 2025 in these cities for her show https://www.psychologyofcults.com/: October 8    Jacksonville, FL    Florida Theatre  October 9    Newberry, SC    Newberry Opera House  October 11    Huntsville, AL    Mars Music Hall  October 12    Bristol, TN    Paramount Bristol  October 14    Charleston, WV    Maier Foundation Performing Hall  October 16    Stroudsburg, PA    Sherman Theater  October 17    Morristown, NJ    Mayo Performing Arts Center  October 18    Stamford, CT    Palace Theatre  October 19    Concord, NH    Chubb Theatre  October 21    Buffalo, NY    Electric City  October 22    Columbus, OH    The Southern Theatre  October 24    Pontiac, MI    Flagstar Strand Theatre  October 26    Cincinnati, OH    Bogart's  October 28    Chicago, IL    City Winery  October 29    Indianapolis, IN    Clowes Memorial Hall  October 30    Cleveland, OH    Connor Palace  November 23 Livermore, CA    Livermore Valley Performing Arts Center 

Michael Shermer sits down with economist and Franklin descendant Dr. Mark Skousen to explore the wit, wisdom, and modern relevance of Benjamin Franklin, the man who bridged science, politics, and philosophy like no other. Shermer and Skousen discuss Franklin's contributions to science, moral philosophy, economics, and religious thought, while asking: What would Franklin make of today's America—its economy, politics, and culture? Mark Skousen holds the Doti-Spogli Chair of Free Enterprise at Chapman University. Known as “America's Economist,” he is the editor of Forecasts & Strategies, an award winning investment newsletter, and producer of FreedomFest, “the world's largest gathering of free minds.” He is the author of over 25 books, incl. his latest, The Greatest American: Benjamin Franklin, The World's Most Versatile Genius.

The COVID-19 pandemic was a devastating global event, killing more than seven million people, straining the fabric of societies, and shaking the foundations of the world economy. And yet, as horrifying as the experience was, COVID-19 was not “The Big One” — the dreaded pandemic that haunts the nightmares of epidemiologists and public health officials everywhere. That far deadlier outbreak is still ahead of us, and it will reshape life across the planet unless we're ready for it. In this episode, Dr. Michael Osterholm, one of the world's leading infectious disease experts, explains what we got wrong, what we got right, and what it all reveals about our preparedness for the next great pandemic. Michael Osterholm is Regents Professor and McKnight Presidential Endowed Chair in Public Health at the University of Minnesota, where he founded and directs the Center for Infectious Disease Research and Policy (CIDRAP). An internationally renowned epidemiologist with fifty years of experience, he's led major outbreak investigations worldwide and authored over 350 papers. He served as a U.S. State Department science envoy from 2017-2019. His new book is The Big One: How We Must Prepare for Future Deadly Pandemics.

Common knowledge is necessary for coordination, for making arbitrary but complementary choices like driving on the right, using paper currency, and coalescing behind a political leader or movement. It's also necessary for social coordination. Humans have a sixth sense for common knowledge, and we create it with signals like laughter, tears, blushing, eye contact, and blunt speech. But people also go to great lengths to avoid common knowledge—to ensure that even if everyone knows something, they can't know that everyone else knows they know it. And so we get rituals like benign hypocrisy, veiled bribes and threats, sexual innuendo, and pretending not to see the elephant in the room. Pinker shows how the hidden logic of common knowledge can make sense of many of life's enigmas: financial bubbles and crashes, revolutions that come out of nowhere, the posturing and pretense of diplomacy, the eruption of social media shaming mobs and academic cancel culture, the awkwardness of a first date. Steven Pinker is the Johnstone Professor of Psychology at Harvard University. He is an elected member of the National Academy of Sciences, a two-time Pulitzer Prize finalist, and one of Time's “100 Most Influential People in the World Today.” He has won many prizes for his teaching, his research on language, cognition, and social relations, and his twelve books. His new book is When Everyone Knows That Everyone Knows: Common Knowledge and the Mysteries of Money, Power, and Everyday Life.

Jim Lampley's story is a 50-year travelog of an unlikely career that catalogs the evolution of sports television—from his emergence as the first sideline reporter, through hosting and covering 14 Olympics, to working with all major sports networks. In this episode, Lampley reflects on his experiences in boxing, the evolution of the sport, and the genius of athletes like Muhammad Ali and George Foreman. The conversation also explores the unpredictability of life and how chance events shape our paths, the importance of mentorship, and the impact of performance-enhancing drugs. Lampley offers insights into the current state of journalism, emphasizing the importance of truth and objectivity amidst the challenges posed by social media and economic incentives. He also reflects on the complex legacy of O.J. Simpson and shares anecdotes about some of his other friends, including the beloved actor (and avid golfer) Jack Nicholson. Jim Lampley is a Hall of Fame sportscaster with 50 years of on-site experience at numerous live sports events, including the Super Bowl, Wimbledon, and 14 Olympics. For 30 years, he was the face and voice of HBO World Championship Boxing, calling some of the sport's most iconic fights—including bouts featuring Muhammad Ali, Mike Tyson, George Foreman, and Floyd Mayweather. A three-time Emmy winner and International Boxing Hall of Fame inductee, his new book is It Happened!

In this solo commentary, Michael Shermer reflects on the assassination of Charlie Kirk and places it in the larger context of political violence, the psychology of radicalization, the dangers of false beliefs, and the role of free speech in intellectual discourse.

Science writer Nicholas Wade explains how human nature continues to shape—and sometimes destabilize—modern civilization, and argues that ignoring the effects of human nature on politics is one of society's greatest mistakes. Drawing on anthropology, evolutionary biology, and history, Wade shows how deep-rooted traits not only shape the outcomes of certain political beliefs and systems, but also affect how people form families, religion, and social order. Nicholas Wade has worked at Nature and Science, and, for many years, at The New York Times, where he was an editorial writer and science editor. He is the author of four books about recent human evolution. His latest is The Origin of Politics: How Evolution and Ideology Shape the Fate of Nations.

Parenting today often feels like an uphill battle, with technology invading every corner of our kids' lives. From the rise of social media addiction to the growing mental health crisis among children and teens, parents are grappling with how they can create a healthy, balanced relationship with technology for their kids. Drawing on her decades as a psychologist studying the impact of technology and mental health, Jean Twenge offers evidence-based advice for raising independent and well-rounded children. Jean Twenge, a professor of psychology at San Diego State University and the author of more than 190 scientific publications and several books based on her research, including Generation Me, iGen, and Generations, which we discussed on this show. Her research has been covered in Time, The Atlantic, Newsweek, and The Washington Post. She has also been featured on Today, Good Morning America, Fox and Friends, CBS This Morning, Real Time with Bill Maher, and NPR. Her new book is Ten Rules for Raising Kids in a High-Tech World.

In this episode of The Michael Shermer Show, Michael Shermer interviews Alan Stern, a prominent planetary scientist and astronaut. Stern discusses his recent suborbital flight, the differences between government and private space initiatives, and the scientific implications of UFO sightings. He also shares insights about the evolution and future of space exploration, including details about the rarely talked about upcoming termination of dozens of already paid-for NASA missions. Alan Stern is a planetary scientist, astronaut, and author. NASA has selected him to be the first researcher NASA funded to fly to space as a crewmember aboard a commercial suborbital space mission. Since 2001 he has led NASA's $900M New Horizons mission that explored the Pluto system and is now exploring the Kuiper Belt—the farthest exploration of worlds in history. In 2007 and 2008, Dr. Stern served as NASA's chief of all space and Earth science programs, directing its $5B/year Science Mission Directorate (SMD), with 93 separate flight missions and a program of over 3,000 research grants. In 2022, he took part in a deep-sea expedition to explore the RMS Titanic in a submersible.

In a radical new story about the birth of our species, evolutionary biologist Madeleine Beekman argues that it was not hunting, fighting, or tool-making that forced early humans to speak, but the inescapable need to care for our children. Beekman reveals the “happy accidents” hidden in our molecular biology—DNA, chromosomes, and proteins—that led to one of the most fateful events in the history of life on Earth: our giving birth to babies earlier in their development than our hominid cousins the Neanderthals and Denisovans. Faced with highly dependent infants requiring years of nurturing and protection, early human communities needed to cooperate and coordinate, and it was this unprecedented need for communication that triggered the creation of human language—and changed everything. Madeleine Beekman is professor emerita of evolutionary biology and behavioral ecology at the University of Sydney, Australia. Her new book is The Origin of Language.

Economist Dean Spears explains the forces driving global population change, from past fears of overpopulation to today's concerns about declining birth rates. He contrasts the perspectives of biologists and economists on population growth and highlights the role of human ideas and innovation in sustaining progress. Spears also discusses misconceptions about zero-sum economics, the links between population, health, and economic well-being, and the rise of anti-natalism. The conversation covers population size and environmental concerns, government policies on family planning, and why cultural attitudes toward reproduction may be as important as policy in addressing the challenges of a shrinking population. Dean Spears is an economist, demographer, and associate professor at the University of Texas at Austin. Spears is a founding executive director of r.i.c.e, (a research institute for compassionate economics), a nonprofit that works to promote children's health, growth, and survival in rural India. Together with Michael Geruso, he is the author of the new book After the Spike: Population, Progress, and the Case for People.

Because brainwashing affects both the world and our observation of the world, we often don't recognize it while it's happening―unless we know where to look. As Rebecca Lemov writes in her new book The Instability of Truth, “Brainwashing erases itself.” What we call brainwashing is more common than we think; it is not so much what happens to other people as what can happen to anyone. In her work, Lemov exposes the myriad ways our minds can be controlled against our will, from the brainwashing techniques used against American POWs in North Korea to the “soft” brainwashing of social media doomscrolling and behavior-shaping. Rebecca Lemov is a historian of science at Harvard University and has been a visiting scholar at the Max Planck Institute. Her research explores data, technology, and the history of human and behavioral sciences. Her new book is The Instability of Truth: Brainwashing, Mind Control, and Hyper-Persuasion.

In an era of globalized education, where ideals of freedom and inquiry should thrive, an alarming trend has emerged: foreign authoritarian regimes influencing American academia. In her new book Authoritarians in the Academy, Sarah McLaughlin reveals how higher education institutions—long considered bastions of free thought—are compromising their values for financial gain and international partnerships. Her investigation uncovers the subtle yet sweeping influence of authoritarian governments, exposing university leaders who prioritize expansion and profit over the principles of free expression. She also describes incidents in which professors and administrators weighed the costs of offending repressive regimes that provide their funding. McLaughlin's work offers a sobering look at how these compromises in academia mirror broader patterns across industries such as technology, sports, and entertainment. Sarah McLaughlin is a senior scholar of global expression at the Foundation for Individual Rights and Expression (FIRE). Her writing about free speech issues, including protest and blasphemy laws, has been featured in publications including Foreign Policy and The Huffington Post. Her new book is Authoritarians in the Academy: How the Internationalization of Higher Education and Borderless Censorship Threaten Free Speech.

In this conversation, Michael Shermer and Dr. Eric Topol discuss the realties of aging, with particular focus on the role of AI in enhancing patient care and disease prevention, the importance of lifestyle factors, and the limitations of genetic testing in predicting health outcomes. Topol also explains the dangers of ultra-processed foods, their link to inflammation, and the role of GLP-1 drugs in promoting healthier eating habits. The conversation also covers diet, particularly the differences between chicken and red meat, and the significance of sleep for overall health. Plus, consumption of microplastics, cholesterol management and statins, the critical role of social connections in maintaining mental and physical health, and the future of personalized medicine in cancer prevention. Eric Topol is a cardiologist and one of the top ten most cited researchers in medicine, known for his groundbreaking studies on AI in medicine, genomics, and digitized clinical trials. Topol is also the executive vice president and a professor of molecular medicine at Scripps Research, the largest nonprofit biomedical institute in the United States. He was named one of the Top 100 most influential people in health in 2024 by Time. His new book is Super Agers.

Isabelle Boemeke explains how nuclear energy is our best option for ensuring the future of the planet—it can power cities, desalinate water, create carbon-free fertilizer, and heat homes, all with the smallest environmental footprint of any energy source. She also discusses common objections to nuclear energy, including safety concerns and waste management, the potential of microreactors, and the importance of nuclear energy in space exploration. Isabelle Boemeke is a nuclear electricity educator. Her new book is Rad Future: The Untold Story of Nuclear Electricity and How it Will Save the World.

In his new book Coming Clean, Eric Heinze rejects the idea that we should be less woke. In fact, we need more wokeness, but of a new kind. Yes, we must teach about classism, racism, colonialism, patriarchy, and other gross injustices, but we must also educate the public about the left's own support for regimes that damaged and destroyed millions of lives for over a century—Stalin in the Soviet Union, Mao Zedong in China, Pol Pot in Cambodia, or the Kim dynasty in North Korea. Criticisms of Western wrongdoing are certainly important, yet Heinze explains that most on the political left have rarely engaged in the kinds of open and public self-scrutiny that they demand from others. Citing examples as different as the Ukraine war, LGBTQ+ people in Cuba, the concept of “hatred,” and the problem of leftwing antisemitism, Heinze explains why and how the left must change its memory politics if it is to claim any ethical high ground. Eric Heinze is Professor of Law and Humanities at Queen Mary University of London. He is the author of The Most Human Right: Why Free Speech is Everything (MIT Press), among other books, and has published over 100 articles and has been featured in radio and television and other media around the world. His new book is Coming Clean: The Rise of Critical Theory and the Future of the Left.

Traditional religion in the United States has suffered huge losses in recent decades. The number of Americans identifying as “not religious” has increased remarkably. Religious affiliation, service attendance, and belief in God have declined. More and more people claim to be “spiritual but not religious.” Religious organizations have been reeling from revelations of sexual and financial scandals and cover-ups. Public trust in “organized religion” has declined significantly. Crucially, these religious losses are concentrated among younger generations. This means that, barring unlikely religious revivals among youth, the losses will continue and accelerate in time, as less-religious younger Americans replace older more-religious ones and increasingly fewer American children are raised by religious parents. All this is clear. But what is less clear is exactly why this is happening. We know a lot more about the fact that traditional American religion has declined than we do about why this is so. Christian Smith is the William R. Kenan, Jr. Professor of Sociology and Founding Director of the Center for the Study of Religion and Society at the University of Notre Dame. Smith is well known for his research focused on religion, adolescents and emerging adults, and social theory. He has written many books, including Divided by Faith, Soul Searching, and Moral, Believing Animals. His new book is Why Religion Went Obsolete: The Demise of Traditional Faith in America.

In this episode, Michael Shermer speaks with historian Sophia Rosenfeld about how modern notions of personal choice—from Amazon shopping to Tinder swipes—emerged from centuries of cultural, religious, political, and economic transformation. Was there ever a time when choice wasn't synonymous with freedom? Why were early ideas of “common sense” and “free will” so limited? And what happens when choice itself becomes overwhelming? From Enlightenment ideals to the sexual revolution and the abortion debate, Rosenfeld traces how our expanding range of options—and the meaning we attach to them—has shaped everything from our romantic lives to our political systems. A revealing look at the hidden history of freedom in a world that sometimes offers too much. Sophia Rosenfeld is Professor of History at the University of Pennsylvania. Her new book is The Age of Choice: A History of Freedom in Modern Life.

What can a lifetime of scientific discovery teach us about the universe—and ourselves? In this wide-ranging conversation, Michael Shermer sits down with Lord Martin Rees, renowned cosmologist, astrophysicist, and former Astronomer Royal, to reflect on the forces that shape scientific success, from personal luck to cultural context. Rees shares insights on the mysteries of cosmology, the search for extraterrestrial life, and the paradoxes that still puzzle humanity. Rees also shares intimate reflections on his friend and Cambridge colleague Stephen Hawking, thoughts on Fermi's Paradox, and why some truths may forever lie beyond human comprehension. The discussion also turns toward urgent global issues: the promise and peril of AI, ethical dilemmas in a rapidly advancing world, and how religion and terrorism could shape our future.

When you are faced with a decision, do you consider the best outcome, or do you consider your deepest values about which actions are appropriate? Steven Sloman contrasts these two primary strategies for making decisions: consequentialism or prioritizing one's sacred values. He argues that, while both modes of decision making are necessary tools for a good decision maker, people err by deploying sacred values more often than they should, especially when it comes to sociopolitical issues. As a result, we oversimplify, grow disgusted and angry, and act in ways that contribute to social polarization. Drawing on historical and current examples of the two decision-making strategies in action, Sloman provides a thorough overview of the psychology of decision making, including work on judgment, conscious and unconscious decision-making processes, the roles of emotion, and even an analysis of habit and addiction. Steven Sloman has taught at Brown University since 1992. He is the author of Causal Models and a coauthor of The Knowledge Illusion (with Phil Fernbach). His new book is The Cost of Conviction: How Our Deepest Values Lead Us Astray.

Michael Shermer in conversation with Debra Soh at FreedomFest 2025 in Palm Springs, CA. Video courtesy of FreedomFest. Additional FreedomFest videos can be viewed on CiVL.

Drawing from intensive on-the-ground reporting in Israel, Gaza, and Lebanon, Douglas Murray places the latest violence in its proper historical context. He takes listeners on a harrowing journey through the aftermath of the October 7 massacre, piecing together the exclusive accounts from victims, survivors, and even the terrorists responsible for the atrocities. Douglas Murray is a bestselling author and journalist. His books include the Sunday Times number-one bestsellers The War on the West: How to Prevail in the Age of Unreason; The Strange Death of Europe: Immigration, Identity and Islam; and The Madness of Crowds: Gender, Race and Identity. He has been Associate Editor and regular writer at The Spectator since 2012, and contributes to other publications, including the Wall Street Journal, The Times, the Sunday Times, the Sun, the Mail on Sunday and the New York Post. A regular guest on broadcast news channels, he has also spoken at numerous universities, parliaments, and the White House. His new book is On Democracies and Death Cults.