Podcasts about Kentucky Derby Museum

The Bluegrass State's world-renowned Bourbon Industry is booming — and this week we're talking with Eric Gregory, President of the Kentucky Distillers' Association, about the economic impact, global reach, and the bold future of bourbon. From heritage brands to new craft distilleries, you'll hear how Kentucky continues to lead the world in America's native spirit amid tarriff and other challenges.Plus — it's a milestone moment for the Kentucky Derby Museum as it celebrates 40 years of preserving the legacy of the most exciting two minutes in sports. We'll sit down with Katrina Helmer to explore what it takes to keep Derby history alive, the behind-the-scenes care that goes into curating one of Kentucky's crown jewels, and what exciting exhibits and experiences are on the horizon. From the barrel to the backstretch — it's a show steeped in tradition, innovation, and Kentucky spirit.

Kroger Derby Coordinator Allison Gousha talks with Brian and Trisha at the Kentucky Derby Museum as part of AT&T Morning Line 2025.

Wild Eggs CEO Andy Abbajay talks with Brian and Trisha at the Kentucky Derby Museum as part of AT&T Morning Line 2025.

Rebecca Rupp with Kern’s Kitchen talks with Brian and Trisha at the Kentucky Derby Museum as part of AT$T Morning Line 2025.

Kathryn Gregory and Kirby Adams with the Courier Journal talk with Brian and Trisha at the Kentucky Derby Museum as part of AT&T Morning Line…

Jacey Rhorer, the official milliner of the Kentucky Derby Festival, talks with Brian and Trisha at the Kentucky Derby Museum as part of AT&T Morning…

Kentucky Agriculture Commissioner Jonathan Shell talks with Brian and Trisha at the Kentucky Derby Museum as part of AT&T Morning Line 2025.

Dan Mann and Megan Tobin with Louisville Muhammad Ali International Airport talk with Brian and Trisha at the Kentucky Derby Museum as part of AT&T…

Louisville Mayor Craig Greenberg talks with Brian and Trisha at the Kentucky Derby Museum as part of AT&T Morning Line 2025.

Kentucky Kingdom Marketing Manager Logan Sanderson talks with Brian and Trisha at the Kentucky Derby Museum as part of AT&T Morning Line 2025.

Kentucky Derby Festival President and CEO Matt Gibson talks with Brian and Trisha at the Kentucky Derby Museum as part of AT&T Morning Line 2025.

Casey Krill with Cravings ala Carte talks with Brian and Trisha at the Kentucky Derby Museum as part of AT&T Morning Line 2025.

Kentucky Governor Andy Beshear talks with Brian and Trisha at the Kentucky Derby Museum as part of AT&T Morning Line 2025.

Kyle Fields with Ice House Louisville talks with Brian and Trisha at the Kentucky Derby Museum as part of AT&T Morning Line 2025.

Kentucky Derby Museum President and CEO Pat Armstrong talks with Brian and Trisha at the Kentucky Derby Museum as part of AT&T Morning Line 2025.

Visit Owensboro Destination Management Director Dave Kirk talks with Brian and Trisha at the Kentucky Derby Museum as part of AT&T Morning Line 2025.

Kentucky Performing Arts President and CEO talks with Brian and Trisha at the Kentucky Derby Museum as part of AT&T Morning Line 2025.

Members of the 2025 Kentucky Derby Festival Royal Court talk with Brian and Trisha at the Kentucky Derby Museum as part of AT&T Morning Line…

Kentucky Beef Council Director of Communications and Events Kelly Baird talks with Brian and Trisha at the Kentucky Derby Museum as part of AT&T Morning…

Kentucky Science Center CEO Mike Norman talks with Brian and Trisha at the Kentucky Derby Museum as part of AT&T Morning Line 2025.

Louisville Tourism President and CEO Cleo Battle talks with Brian and Trisha at the Kentucky Derby Museum as part of AT&T Morning Line 2025.

Evan Williams Bourbon Experience Event Coordinator Pauline Ottaviano talks with Brian and Trisha at the Kentucky Derby Museum as part of AT&T Morning Line 2025.

Muhammad Ali Center Manager of Digital Communications Dustin Vogt talks with Brian and Trisha at the Kentucky Derby Museum as part of AT&T Morning Line…

AT&T Kentucky President Carlos Sanchez talks with Brian and Trisha at the Kentucky Derby Museum as part of AT&T Morning Line 2025.

Lindy Casebier, Secretary of the Kentucky Tourism, Arts, and Heritage Cabinet, talks with Brian and Trisha at the Kentucky Derby Museum as part of AT&T…

Kentucky Department of Tourism Commissioner Mike Mangeot talks with Brian and Trisha at the Kentucky Derby Museum as part of AT&T Morning Line 2025.

Kentucky Lieutenant Governor Jacqueline Coleman talks with Brian and Trisha at the Kentucky Derby Museum as part of AT&T Morning Line 2025.

Kentucky Venues President and CEO David Beck talks with Brian and Trisha at the Kentucky Derby Museum as part of AT&T Morning Line 2025.

In celebration of Women's History Month, this week on the Access Hour, we are sharing two book launch events by amazing female historians that were held recently at the Filson Historical Society in Old Louisville! First up, we'll take you back to February 25, 2025, when the Filson hosted the book launch for Jessica K. Whitehead's insightful new text, "Driftwood: The Life of Harlan Hubbard." Jessica offers remarks on her comprehensive biography of the writer, artist, and sustainability pioneer Harlan Hubbard (1900-1988) and the deep impact Harlan and his wife, Anna, have had on Kentucky's culture. Whitehead's book delves into Hubbard's family background, education, and relationships, and into his theories on art, writing, music, and philosophy. Using journals, letters, paintings, manuscripts, and sketches, Whitehead pieces together the distinct phases of Hubbard's life, providing new insights into his character and legacy. Following the remarks, members of the NouLou Chamber Players, Heather Thomas (violin) and Cecilia Huerta-Lauf (cello), join with pianist Sebastian Chang in the world premiere of composer Daniel Gilliam's “Piano Trio No. 2: Payne Hollow.” This exciting new piece of music, written by Gilliam in conjunction with the book launch celebrates the Hubbards' vision of living and working on their own terms. The trio also honors the Harlan and Anna Hubbards' deep love of classical music performance—showcasing the instruments they once played: piano, cello, and violin. Jessica K. Whitehead, writer and curator of collections at the Kentucky Derby Museum in Louisville, is author of "The History of the Kentucky Derby in 75 Objects" and a contributor to "The Watercolors of Harlan Hubbard: From the Collection of Bill and Flo Caddell." Daniel Gilliam is a composer from Louisville, KY. He is also the program director, and an announcer, on 90.5 WUOL Classical Louisville. Watch a recording of the evening and see the musical performance and images referenced at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BucL0S6vD94. Following that, we'll hear from another amazing historian, Eliza McGraw, who spoke at the Filson Historical Society on March 6, 2025 about her brand new book, "Astride: Horses, Women, and a Partnership That Shaped America." In the book, Eliza weaves together stories of women who pioneered in worlds such as Thoroughbred breeding, the circus, and horse rescue at a time when American women in general internalized the lessons of horsewomen: take chances, take up more space, and learn to get back on. From tamers to caretakers and performers to teachers, all worked with horses to buck the status quo. Expressing the idea of femininity with athleticism and authority, these trailblazers changed the way America understood women. Richly illustrated with period photographs, Astride demonstrates that even small changes can advance the fight for progress. Eliza McGraw is the Dr. Tony Ryan Book Award–winning author of "Here Comes Exterminator! The Longshot Horse, the Great War, and the Making of an American Hero" and a contributing writer for EQUUS magazine. Watch a full recording and see the slides at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S1HKDSSs3-4 The Access Hour airs on Forward Radio, 106.5fm, WFMP-LP Louisville, every Wednesday at 2pm and repeats Thursdays at 11am and Fridays at 1pm. Find us at https:/forwardradio.org If you've got something you'd like to share on community radio through the Access Hour, whether it's a recording you made or a show you'd like to do on a particular topic, community, artistic creation, or program that is under-represented in Louisville's media landscape, just go to https:/forwardradio.org, click on Participate and pitch us your idea. The Access Hour is your opportunity to take over the air waves to share your passion.

Kay Adams hosted the latest episode of 'Up & Adams' on FanDuel TV and YouTube live from the Kentucky Derby! On today's episode, Kay sets the scene from Churchill Downs with how the iconic Mint Julep drink is made and horses to watch ahead of the big race. Then, Jenny Pfanenstiel, the official milliner of the Kentucky Derby Museum, discusses the type of hats you want to wear for the event and some of the famous people she's worked with. Next, jockey Tyler Gaffalione explains why his horse, “Sierra Leone”, can win this race and the bond they share. After that, owner of Kentucky Derby favorite “Fierceness” Mike Repole shares how he's feeling heading into the race and the similarities he has with Tom Brady and Kobe Bryant. Finally, former Pro Bowl guard Eric Wood talks about what makes the city of Louisville so special and the Buffalo Bills' offseason changes.

Auditor Taylor DiSabatino's fiance John Lambert has a fascinating job and they are getting married shortly at the Kentucky Derby Museum. Adam Lee then tells us about being married to a Dressage rider and how they met as HAM operators. Listen in....HORSES IN THE MORNING Episode Horse Husbands Episode 3418 - Show Notes and Links:The HORSES IN THE MORNING Crew: Glenn the Geek and Rich MullerTitle Sponsor: MyNewHorse.comGuest: John LambertGuest: Adam LeeVisit our Facebook page for all the pics and postsAdditional support for this podcast provided by US Rider and Listeners Like YouHorse Husbands now has it's own RSS feed, just search Horse Husbands in your podcast player. Time Stamps:10:10 - John Lambert34:36 - Adam Lee

Auditor Taylor DiSabatino's fiance John Lambert has a fascinating job and they are getting married shortly at the Kentucky Derby Museum. Adam Lee then tells us about being married to a Dressage rider and how they met as HAM operators. Listen in....HORSES IN THE MORNING Episode Horse Husbands Episode 3418 - Show Notes and Links:The HORSES IN THE MORNING Crew: Glenn the Geek and Rich MullerTitle Sponsor: MyNewHorse.comGuest: John LambertGuest: Adam LeeVisit our Facebook page for all the pics and postsAdditional support for this podcast provided by US Rider and Listeners Like YouHorse Husbands now has it's own RSS feed, just search Horse Husbands in your podcast player. Time Stamps:10:10 - John Lambert34:36 - Adam Lee

Join Stu as he sits down with Donna Lawrence. Donna is a documentarian, filmmaker, and all-around technical innovator whose work you have most likely already seen as her groundbreaking museum installations can be found all over America. From the “Greatest Race Show” at the Kentucky Derby Museum in Churchill Downs to the Statue of Liberty museum in New York, Donna's multi-image displays broke ground when they were introduced in the 1980s and continue to inspire audiences today. Listen in on Stu and Donna as she discussed her double roots, her love of Louisville and Kentucky, and her artistic process.  Louisville Film Society:  https://www.louisvillefilmsociety.org/ Lunacy U: https://lunacyu.com/ Reunacy: https://reunacy.com/ Donna Lawrence Productions: https://dlproductions.com/ The Greatest Race Excerpts: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lp-pIPkresk

Happy Kentucky Derby week!!! Sean Collier joins the crew to talk about what it's like getting to work with fans everyday in his role as the assistant tour manager at the Kentucky Derby Museum. Then a SECOND guest: Cathy Shircliff comes on to talk about her work as the director of equine industry relations Churchill Downs Inc. and what the buzz around the track has been like so far this year! Amplify Horse Racing promotes education, experiences, and careers in the Thoroughbred industry. Amplify's mission is “amplification” of the sport of horse racing, by supporting and enhancing the great things the industry is already doing, and developing new opportunities that lead us into the future. Amplify seeks to expand touchpoints and lower barriers to entry, welcoming all ages, backgrounds, organizations, initiatives, or riding disciplines to be involved. Its goal is to generate positivity, find common ground, and highlight areas for collaboration. To learn more about pursuing a career in the Thoroughbred industry, visit: https://www.amplifyhorseracing.org/ Note: All opinions are shared solely for educational purposes.

This year marks 50 years since Big Red took the nation by storm, winning the Triple Crown in convincing fashion. The Kentucky Derby Museum is marking the occasion with a new permanent Secretariat exhibit and a party along with the chance to get a very special bourbon release.The Museum's Chris Goodlett and Pat Armstrong give us all the info in this edition of Kentucky Focus.

Featured Milliner for the Kentucky Derby Museum

What it is Family? The Podigal Sons are on a high because Lance is celebrating his 34th birthday! So we're on a high over here. After some storytime and other nonsense, Brother Brandon and Lance are screaming "Free Britteny Griner" from Russia [14:10]. This leads the Podigal Sons into a further conversation about Russia's war against Ukraine [17:30]. Then Mr. SpreadLove talks about being photographed for a feature in a "Bloodhorse Magazine" for his piece that won an award at the Kentucky Derby Museum [21:30]. Plus Flordia Man Updates [27:55], Internet debate = Podcast debate [31:50]. March Madness [36:20], and a discussion about the Cleveland Browns trading for Deshaun Watson, despite his 22 open civil cases [43:37]. The Podigal Sons aren't here for a long time, but they're here for a good time. Hope you enjoy this episode. [[ RUN TIME: 1hr 12mins ]]Rate, Review, or Subscribe to the Podigal Sons Podcast!Lance = @MrSpreadLoveBrandon = @BrotherBrandon_

For today's episode our guest is Richard Sullivan. Richard is a world renowned artist and former professional baseball player with the Atlanta Braves. Born and raised in Louisville, KY, he studied at the Savannah College of Art and Design (SCAD) where he received a BFA in Illustration. He had the opportunity to play baseball at SCAD and to continue his interest in art and illustration. In 2008, Richard was drafted by the Braves in the 11th round as a junior and played 6 years of minor league baseball. He returned to SCAD in 2014 to finish his degree and focus exclusively on his artwork. His work has been accepted into the permanent collection of the National Baseball Hall of Fame, the Yogi Berra Museum and exhibited by the Louisville Slugger Museum and the Kentucky Derby Museum. In 2017 the Atlanta Braves commissioned Richard to create 18 original watercolor paintings and 20 prints for their new stadium SunTrust Park. The paintings line the corridors of the Champions suite and the Executive Offices. In 2019, Richard collaborated with Topps to create 20 paintings for the Momentum Rising card set. Richard's work has been featured nationally on MLB.com, Fox Sports, Fox Sports South and numerous magazines including The AJC, Kentucky Monthly, Insider Louisville, The Courier Journal, Louisville Magazine and the Louisville Voice. On this episode, Richard will elaborate on his story and success blending the worlds of art, sports, and business into one. Check out Richard's Website: www.richardsullivanillustration.com HTBS Website and Social Media Links: Website: www.htbshow.com Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/htbs__/ Youtube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCqVAjFOr1EvzDGeNwuJfeng Feel free to connect and contact us: If you have a How To: Business Story to share, email us! We would love to have you on the show! :) Email: htbs@gilezanteam.com -Sam LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/sam-griffin-443758106/ Email: sam@gilezanteam.com -Matt LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/matthew-wilson-652476205/ Email: matt@gilezanteam.com -Dylan LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/dylan-gilezan-740092215/ Email: dylan@gilezanteam.com Learn more about us and what we do through the links below: eXp Commercial: https://www.expcommercialky.com/ Capital Connect: https://www.capitalconnectus.com/ --- This episode is sponsored by · Anchor: The easiest way to make a podcast. https://anchor.fm/app --- Send in a voice message: https://anchor.fm/htbs/message

It's under 100 days until Kentucky Derby 148 so we stopped by the Kentucky Derby Museum to see their new Welcome To Derbyville exhibit.

In this episode, we talk with Dr. Simon Curtis, FWCF, PhD. He has been shoeing horses for 46 years. He is a Fellow of the Worshipful Company of Farriers by examination. Based in Newmarket, Simon has been a farrier since 1972. He is a 4th generation farrier. His family have been farriers and blacksmiths on the Cambridgeshire and Suffolk border for the past 150 years. He is a Past Master of the Worshipful Company of Farriers (2001-2002). He has been awarded an Honorary Associateship of the Royal College of Veterinary Surgeons. This is the first time that any farrier has received such an honour. He has published 3 text books and has been published in numerous journals. In 2005 Simon was inducted into “The Farriers Hall of Fame” in the Kentucky Derby Museum, Louisville, USA. In this episode, Dr. Curtis talks about his apprenticeship, early mistakes he made and what he learned from them, his association with Dr. Doug Butler, experiences with shoeing the Queen's horses, and other experiences throughout his career. He also shares his views on the importance of business training for farriers, how farriers can prepare for certification and exams, the importance of continuing education, and findings from his PhD research. You'll get a lot out from this interview about the many lessons Dr. Curtis has learned throughout his career.

Sarah Soward is an artist with a focus on endangered wildlife and color. She holds a BFA from the California College of the Arts (view her art C.V.). She shows and competes internationally. Some highlights of her career include the acquisition of a painting by the Kentucky Derby Museum at Churchill Downs, acceptance of her work into the Wildlife Artist of the Year 2013, 2015, and 2017 exhibitions at the Mall Gallery in London, England, with her giraffe painting, Sky Creature, ending up in both the Londonist and the BBC Wildlife Magazine. Two of her rhinoceros paintings traveled with the Artist4Rhino exhibition in Italy, one of which was exhibited with the show at the Museo Civico de Storia Naturale di Genova. Her new book "Rhinotopia" is currently available on Amazon/Barnes and Noble this week! Barnes and Noble Link: https://www.barnesandnoble.com/w/rhinotopia-beginnings-sarah-soward/1140482415 Sarah Soward Website https://sarahsoward.com/ ________________________________ If you follow my podcast and enjoy it, I'm on @buymeacoffee. If you like my work, you can buy me a coffee and share your thoughts

You might want to don your finest wide-brimmed, Southern belle hat for this week's episode. That's because my guest this week is joining us from the Kentucky Derby Museum.  Yep, the museum that focuses on one of the most legendary race tracks in the world.  Rachel Collier Carr is Director of Communications for the museum, serving as their primary media spokesperson, coordinating press conferences, media requests, public relations, and all the content from social media to newsletters.  One of the funding streams for the museum is its membership, something that the museum's team has spent lots of time thinking about lately. Rachel joins us to talk about that, along with all the exciting things that happen at what sounds like a very fun but also very busy place to work!Connect with Rachel:derbymuseum.orgInstagram: @derbymuseumFacebook: @Kentucky Derby MuseumTwitter: @derbymuseum****ABOUT YOUR HOSTYes, there is a “real” Joy in The Joy of Membership.Founder & CEO Joy Duling has been working with leaders of associations, trade groups and nonprofits since 2005.She has also walked the same journey, serving for nearly 10 years as the Executive Director of a membership-based nonprofit which she helped launch from scratch and led to annual revenues of more than $1M exclusively from membership contributions.Joy has been widely recognized as a speaker, an online educator and a trusted advisor, twice winning the “Unsung Hero Award” from the National Association of Women Business Owners' Central Illinois Chapter. She holds a Bachelor's Degree in Psychology and a Master's Degree in Social Work with Specialization in Policy, Planning and Administration. She has extensive experience in strategic planning, team facilitation, change management, and association operations.But beyond industry experience and education…Joy Duling is the calm voice you want to have in the room when you, your team, or your board is overwhelmed by ideas and options.She's a trusted resource at the other end of an email or phone call who knows the answer, or can find the answer, when it's not clear what to do next in your approach.She's a planner of systems and driver of progress that helps your organization achieve stretch goals.She's a gifted facilitator of conversation, collaboration, and constructive growth. And she's approachable and results-oriented,  which makes it easy to shake loose of the old and start fresh on the new.

This week we are visiting the Kentucky Derby Museum located on the grounds of historic Churchill Downs. KDM offers exhibits, a 360 degree movie called "The Greatest Race" and multiple tours of the backside, Churchill Downs, behind-the-scenes celebrity tours and an all-new Hermitage Farm tour opening April 1st. I catch up with Rachel Collier, Director of Communications, about all their jam-packed events leading up to Derby. For tickets and tours go to DerbyMuseum.org. Horses, Hats & Bourbon sponsored by Mint Julep Experiences. Get started planning your Kentucky Adventure today at www.mintjuleptours.com/horseshatsbourbon

CZL was beyond honored to be asked to interview each of the panelist at the Ladies in Leadership hosted by the Kentucky Derby Museum.  This event was organized to celebrate the opening of the ‘Right to Ride’ exhibit opening at the Kentucky Derby Museum.   The chance to speak with each of these inspiring women was the highlight of our season.  Each woman offered a new, fresh, enlightening approach to way they engineer their lives to achieve astonishing goals.  Each woman we had the privilege to speak to connected with us in a way that we are really grateful for.  Whether you live in Louisville or not, these stories will inspire you to blaze your path into your OWN greatness. Here’s a rundown of the showcased guests: Natalia Bishop- Creator of Level Up & Story LouisvilleSerial Entrepreneur, Mentor, Creator, Community Curator, Mom, & long time Zen Friend.Best piece of advice: “Start”@natalia_bishop @lvluoffical @storylouisville Peggy Noe Stevens- Bourbon Master & Marketing StrategistWorld’s FIRST female Master Bourbon Taster, Author of “Which Fork Do I Use With My Bourbon” & “Professional Presence”, Serial Entrepreneur, 30 years ExperienceBest piece of advice: “Drink first, sip second, decline the third”@peggynoestevens & peggynowstevens.com Tawana Bain- creator of Tbain & Co. & GeddiActivist, philanthropist, event producer, fashion icon, marketer, print creator, podcaster, & serial entrepreneurBest piece of advice: “Hate is the most wasted emotion”@get_fancy_with_t  Donna Brothers- World renowned jockey, National TV correspondent, and author of “Inside Track: Insider’s Guide to Horse Racing”One of the most recognized faces in horse racing, over 1,000 career wins, wine enthusiast, and yogi.Best piece of advice- “ You are you’re own company”@brothers.donna & donnabrothers.com

Interview with Katie Fussenegger, Vice President of the Kentucky Derby Museum. The busy tourism executive shares her secrets for creating a zen work-home balance, the lessons that the COVID pandemic taught her and a preview of KDM's newest exhibit "Right to Ride" opening October 16th.

Here is interview #9 with Gene McLean President & Publisher of the Press Box. Is Tiz The Law that good and if not who can beat him? Gene shares his thoughts on this and more. Visit www.thepressboxlts.com to learm more about Gene and his work. COVID-19 has changed so many things in 2020 including the Kentucky Derby and the Kentucky Derby Festival. The Derby Festival has a long standing radio event called the AT&T Morning Line where radio stations interview local celebrities, horse racing experts and tourist venues from around the state from the beautiful Kentucky Derby Museum over two days. This year that event is virtue and will feature an interview a day over a two week period. Kentucky's Heartland is so honored to be representing the radio stations of Commonwealth Broadcasting and Heritage Media at this event.

Here is interview #8 with Cleo Battle Chief Operating Officer for Louisville Tourism. Cleo talks about the struggles of tourism and about the fun Urban Bourbon Trail. COVID-19 has changed so many things in 2020 including the Kentucky Derby and the Kentucky Derby Festival. The Derby Festival has a long standing radio event called the AT&T Morning Line where radio stations interview local celebrities, horse racing experts and tourist venues from around the state from the beautiful Kentucky Derby Museum over two days. This year that event is virtue and will feature an interview a day over a two week period. Kentucky's Heartland is so honored to be representing the radio stations of Commonwealth Broadcasting and Heritage Media at this event.

Here is interview #7 with Governor Andy Beshear. We talk about the importance of the Derby, wearing masks and some of the more challenging days of this pandemic. COVID-19 has changed so many things in 2020 including the Kentucky Derby and the Kentucky Derby Festival. The Derby Festival has a long standing radio event called the AT&T Morning Line where radio stations interview local celebrities, horse racing experts and tourist venues from around the state from the beautiful Kentucky Derby Museum over two days. This year that event is virtue and will feature an interview a day over a two week period. Kentucky's Heartland is so honored to be representing the radio stations of Commonwealth Broadcasting and Heritage Media at this event.

Here is interview #6 with Woodford Reserve Master Distiller Chris Morris. Chris tells me all about the $1,000 Mint Julep Program including the new twist of the classic recipe for 2020. Chris and I also talk a little about the popularity of bourbon around the world. COVID-19 has changed so many things in 2020 including the Kentucky Derby and the Kentucky Derby Festival. The Derby Festival has a long standing radio event called the AT&T Morning Line where radio stations interview local celebrities, horse racing experts and tourist venues from around the state from the beautiful Kentucky Derby Museum over two days. This year that event is virtue and will feature an interview a day over a two week period. Kentucky's Heartland is so honored to be representing the radio stations of Commonwealth Broadcasting and Heritage Media at this event.

COVID-19 has changed so many things in 2020 including the Kentucky Derby and the Kentucky Derby Festival. The Derby Festival has a long standing radio event called the AT&T Morning Line where radio stations interview local celebrities, horse racing experts and tourist venues from around the state from the beautiful Kentucky Derby Museum over two days. This year that event is virtue and will feature an interview a day over a two week period. Kentucky's Heartland is so honored to be representing the radio stations of Commonwealth Broadcasting and Heritage Media at this event. Here is interview #5 with LaDonna Miller Director of Marketing & Sales for the Kentucky State Parks..

COVID-19 has changed so many things in 2020 including the Kentucky Derby and the Kentucky Derby Festival. The Derby Festival has a long standing radio event called the AT&T Morning Line where radio stations interview local celebrities, horse racing experts and tourist venues from around the state from the beautiful Kentucky Derby Museum over two days. This year that event is virtue and will feature an interview a day over a two week period. Kentucky's Heartland is so honored to be representing the radio stations of Commonwealth Broadcasting and Heritage Media at this event. Here is interview #4 featuring Lt. Governor of Kentucky Jacqueline Coleman.

COVID-19 has changed so many things in 2020 including the Kentucky Derby and the Kentucky Derby Festival. The Derby Festival has a long standing radio event called the AT&T Morning Line where radio stations interview local celebrities, horse racing experts and tourist venues from around the state from the beautiful Kentucky Derby Museum over two days. This year that event is virtue and will feature an interview a day over a two week period. Kentucky's Heartland is so honored to be representing the radio stations of Commonwealth Broadcasting and Heritage Media at this event. Here is interview #3 featuring Matt Gibson, President & CEO of Kentucky Derby Festival.

COVID-19 has changed so many things in 2020 including the Kentucky Derby and the Kentucky Derby Festival. The Derby Festival has a long standing radio event called the AT&T Morning Line where radio stations interview local celebrities, horse racing experts and tourist venues from around the state from the beautiful Kentucky Derby Museum over two days. This year that event is virtue and will feature an interview a day over a two week period. Kentucky's Heartland is so honored to be representing the radio stations of Commonwealth Broadcasting and Heritage Media at this event. Here is interview #2 featuring Tonya Abeln, Vice President of Corporate Communications, Churchill Downs.

COVID-19 has changed so many things in 2020 including the Kentucky Derby and the Kentucky Derby Festival. The Derby Festival has a long standing radio event called the AT&T Morning Line where radio stations interview local celebrities, horse racing experts and tourist venues from around the state from the beautiful Kentucky Derby Museum over two days. This year that event is virtue and will feature an interview a day over a two week period. Kentucky's Heartland is so honored to be representing the radio stations of Commonwealth Broadcasting and Heritage Media at this event. Here is interview #1 featuring Rachel Collier, Director of Communications for the Kentucky Derby Museum.

For anyone that doesn’t know Peggy from listening to our past episodes, you will get to hear from the first ever woman Master Taster. She has been a remarkable inspiration for anyone in the bourbon industry and her crowning achievement was being inducted into the 2019 Bourbon Hall of Fame. This podcast was recorded at the Kentucky Derby Museum’s Legends Series so make sure you are following their social media handles @derbymuseum to catch the next season. Learn more about Peggy by listening to episodes 204 and 198, which is her session from the 2018 Kentucky Bourbon Affair called “The Stave is the Rave”. Show Partners: You can now buy Barrell Craft Spirits products online and have them shipped right to your door. Visit BarrellBourbon.com and click Buy Now. Receive $25 off your first order at RackHouse Whiskey Club with code "Pursuit". Visit RackhouseWhiskeyClub.com. Show Notes: DISCUS Petition: https://p2a.co/yrfbbV7 Podcast Awards Voting:  https://www.podcastawards.com/ This week’s Above the Char with Fred Minnick talks about Wild Turkey and small barrels. Tell us about being a Noe. What were you like when you were young? What was your dad like? Tell us about your time at the University of Kentucky. What were you drinking back then? Why did you chose these whiskies to taste? What was your first job out of college? How long were you in the hotel business? When did you work at Brown-Forman? What was the coolest event you coordinated? What was the next step? Tell us a good Lincoln story. What challenges have you faced? Do you feel like you always have to prove yourself? Talk about what you've done for women in bourbon. Tell us about Peerless. How many distilleries have you worked on? Tell us about Bakers. Bourbon Women: https://bourbonwomen.org/ Support this Podcast on Patreon

Patrick Armstrong, the President and CEO of the Kentucky Derby Museum, is having a sale on all of the official Kentucky Derby merchandise that has the original May 2nd date on it. The proceeds will go to the Team Kentucky Fund and Louisville's COVID-19 Response Fund. Patrick also talked about the virtual tours of the museum offered on their website with different content offered daily.Get that info and find info on how to get your hands on some of that Derby gear here…

Patrick Armstrong, the President and CEO of the Kentucky Derby Museum, is having a sale on all of the official Kentucky Derby merchandise that has the original May 2nd date on it. The proceeds will go to the Team Kentucky Fund and Louisville’s COVID-19 Response Fund. Patrick also talked about the virtual tours of the museum offered on their website with different content offered daily.Get that info and find info on how to get your hands on some of that Derby gear here…

Do you find yourself talking to the same people about bourbon every day and realize you talk to them more than your best friends? In fact, maybe they are your new best friends. We're all in that situation now and that's what today's episode is all about. Bourbon has a magical element that seems to bring people together across every demographic to share a common bond. Perhaps you're getting started and want to figure out, how do you find your bourbon people? We sit down with Jeremy Mandel, he's an admin and founder of a few online communities and one of our Patreon supporters. We go through what it takes to find connections with other like minded individuals that can be done online with people around the world or perhaps in your own backyard with meet-up groups, bourbon societies, and much more. You'll come away at the end of this realizing you probably followed some of these same steps without realizing it. Show Partners: The University of Louisville has an online Distilled Spirits Business Certificate that focuses on the business side of the spirits industry. Learn more at uofl.me/bourbonpursuit. At Barrell Craft Spirits, they spend weeks choosing barrels to create a new batch. Joe and Tripp meticulously sample every barrel to make sure the blend is absolutely perfect. Find out more at BarrellBourbon.com. Receive $25 off your first order at RackHouse Whiskey Club with code "Pursuit". Visit RackhouseWhiskeyClub.com. Show Notes: This week’s Above the Char with Fred Minnick talks about money. How did you get into bourbon? What was your introduction to the online bourbon communities? Do you ever have events with your bourbon friends? Do certain groups create more bonds than others? What about your local society? Do you think raffle groups encourage camaraderie? What did you think of the Bob Dylan whiskey? Would you rather go to someone's house to drink bourbon or a bar? Can these bourbon networks get bigger? How can people find a bourbon community? What relationships have gotten you a really good bottle of bourbon?   0:00 Are you interested in pairing your expertise on the distilling process with key business knowledge such as finance, marketing and operations, then you need to check out the distilled spirits business certificate from the University of Louisville. It's an online program that can be completed in as little as six courses. The program is taught by both UVL business faculty and corporate fellows. So you are getting real experience from experts at the most renowned distilleries, companies and startups in the distilling industry. We're talking leaders from Brown Forman beam Suntory, jack daniels and more. get enrolled to this online program at U of l.me. Slash bourbon pursuit. 0:39 My dad's famous line is nothing I said is on Episode One is if you're if you're drinking beer, you're watching the party. If you're drinking bourbon, you are the party 1:01 This is Episode 243 of bourbon pursuit. I'm Kenny, one of your hosts. And how about some pursuit series news. Now, we don't want to use this as a self serving platform. But lots of people want updates on what's happening. So here's the latest. Last week, Ryan and I visit our barrel broker where we get to do what's sort of unusual in the bulk source market, where we get to actually hand select every barrel. Now, we've talked about this before, and you're going to hear about it more, but this time we tasted through 22 barrels and wound up choosing three barrels of 10 year Tennessee bourbon, and then we also selected two barrels of a special ride. We've got a few months until the Ryobi bottled, but this stuff blew our minds at only four years old, because it had such fruity and bubblegum flavors that I think it's gonna take everybody by surprise. We've also purchased four more barrels from Finger Lakes distilling, and we'll be releasing more of those relatively soon. We've got other things in the works as well. And you can get all those updates for upcoming barrels in our Patreon community. 2:00 Lastly, we have finally touched down in Georgia and more specifically in Atlanta, where there are select retailers with limited amounts of Episode 21 and it tastes just like candied pecans. Next week we have two more barrels going up for sale to our Patreon community first before they are released to the general public. And one of these barrels is our first ever 15 year old bourbon release. It might just be one of my favorites because you know, I love that oak. Alright, let's get on with the industry news. Right now Corona virus is on everyone's radar and we all know the travel industry is hurting because events held worldwide are being canceled. But what does that mean for the spirits industry? Chinese consumers are really tailored more to scotch and cognac and buys you where it's going to be hit hardest. biagio has already cut its full year 2020 profit forecast by up to 260 million as bars and restaurants and Greater China remain empty. beams and Tory said that the coronavirus situation is 3:00 Creating challenges in key Asian markets and its 2019 full year results. For no record anticipates the outbreak will have a severe impact on its China and travel retail business and cut its guidance for organic growth in profit from reoccurring operations for fiscal 2022, two to 4% from its previous expectations of five to 7%. In response to the industry demand for greater clarity during global threats, I Ws our drinks market analysis, which is the leading authority on data and intelligence on the global beverage alcohol market has revealed plans to launch the AWS our Corona virus risk assessment model, also known as cram. The tool will quantify and forecast the impact of key global events, giving industry leaders data driven insights and situational forecasts to navigate the situation and manage risks. To commemorate the celebration of its hundred and 50th anniversary pulled forcers opening the first ever whiskey row retreat. It's going to be a huge 4:00 immersive bourbon apartment experience. one lucky winner and a guests will be invited to stay at whiskey row retreat during National bourbon day on June 14, and the entire guest experience at the whiskey row retreat will center around unprecedented access to the production of the bourbon, the brand and the people behind old forester. The contest winner and a guest will be invited to partake in special activities at the old forcer distilling company, including experiencing the process of creating a barrel. Joining Jackie's I can in a single barrel selection and custom cocktail classes, such as learning how to make the brain signature perfect old fashioned to enter the whiskey row retreat contest fans 21 and older can enter by sharing an essay on why they think they should be chosen to win and stay at the whiskey row retreat. And you can do this by visiting old forester.com slash whiskey row retreat. The entry for deadline is April 20 of 2024 roses small batch select is expanding beyond 5:00 2019 initial launch of only being in five states. new markets were small batch select will be available in the coming months include Colorado, Florida, Illinois, Indiana, Massachusetts, Michigan, Missouri, New Jersey, North Carolina, Ohio, Tennessee, Washington and Wisconsin. 5:18 independent state company and the Boswell family who you might remember Brad Boswell the CEO back on episode 185 are giving $1 million to the university Kentucky to further spirits research at the James been Institute for Kentucky spirits. The gift will fund a new maturation facility that will allow the dean Institute to experiment with barrel aging spirits produced in its research distillery, the only one of its kind in the United States. This new warehouse will have a 600 barrel capacity and become an interactive classroom and laboratory where students and scientists can tackle real life industry issues. Do you find yourself talking to the same people every day about bourbon and real life? 6:00 You talked to them more than maybe some of your best friends from school. think we're all in that same situation now. And that's what today's episode is all about. bourbon has a magical element to it that seems to bring people together across every demographic and share a common bond. But perhaps you're getting started and you want to figure out how do you find your bourbon people. We sit down with Jeremy Mendell, he's an admin and founder of a few Facebook communities. And he's also one of our Patreon supporters. We go through what it takes to find connections with other like minded individuals that can be done either online with people around the world, or perhaps it's in your own backyard with meetup groups, urban societies, and much more. You'll come away at the end of this realizing you've probably followed some of these same steps already without even realizing it. And hey, if you want to be a part of another community, join us on Patreon where you're 700 plus members strong and growing every single week. As a final reminder, we are doing our 2020 bourbon pursuit audience survey and we want to know more 7:00 More about you, our listeners. So if you've got 30 seconds to spare and I promise it's only 30 seconds, please visit bourbon pursuit calm slash 2020 survey. Alright, it's time for the show. Here's Joe from barrel bourbon. And then you've got Fred minich with above the char. 7:18 It's Joe from barrel bourbon, myself and our master distiller a triple stimpson spend weeks choosing barrels to create a new batch. We meticulously sample every barrel and make sure the blend is absolutely perfect. Next time ask your bartender for barrel bourbon. 7:33 I'm Fred MiniK. And this is above the char money. Oh, we talked about it. It's the root of all evil. And we wish we had more of it and people tell themselves that money can't buy you happiness. Well, you know, money is very, very, very important. And right now you have distillers from Washington to Florida and from Texas to South Dakota. 8:00 All scrambling going to banks, venture capitalists, private investors, Angel share people, friends, family. Hell, you might even just randomly run into someone on the airport, you're hitting them up for money. There are so many people looking for money in this space. And people just don't understand whiskey. I sometimes wonder what the world would look like in the distilling business. If mainstream businesses understood what this world encompassed, that in fact that bourbon is its own audience. bourbon is as big as a sports team or NFL franchise or even a sports league. It's bigger than a lot of TV shows. And if people would actually just kind of wake up and look past the alcohol aspect. We may be hearing about brands that you never even knew about, but because somebody can't get the money 9:00 That they need to start the distillery of their dreams. We're not going to hear about them. 9:06 And there are people like Cedar Ridge and Iowa where the farmer, the winemaker, he leverages his house, everything that he owns his land. I mean, I think he might even leveraged a kid near to just to start the brand Cedar Ridge. He kept believing in it, he kept believing in it, and he kept believing it and then finally he got a big big break. And that is just it. Everybody needs a break in this business. But it all starts with the money. And I'll be damned if there's just not enough of it to go around. 9:43 And that's this week's above the char. Hey, did you know that I have got a new podcast. It's in the music interview section. So help me become the number one music interview podcast on Apple. Go over there and search for my name the Fred MiniK show. 10:00 Then we'll have the number one bourbon podcast and the number one music interview podcast. Go check it out. Until next week, cheers. 10:11 Welcome back to the episode of bourbon pursuit, the official podcast of bourbon. Kinney, Ryan and Fred here talking about a fun cultural topic. You know, this is, this is something that even this podcast wouldn't have started if it wasn't for the type of pot or the topic that we are actually talking about tonight. And it's kind of really, I guess, you could say it's a way that you you branch out a little bit you end up growing, we've all had friends that we get through school and college or work or anything like that, and then you end up finding Oh, I can find brend friends and other things such as hobbies, and, and really, bourbon is one of those things that we talked about all the time. It's what brings people together. And that's kind of what brought this podcast together. I mean, Ryan was 11:00 Really on the idea of Hey, let's start a bourbon podcasts. And I think I know this guy named Kenny. Yeah, we weren't really friends. And so we were we were we were acquaintances at that point Really? Well, we, ironically enough, we both liked etn. Before, before bourbon, so that was the introduction. And then the bourbon kind of brought us together. But yes, bourbon has definitely like, I'm amazed at how many people and how vast my network has become just because of bourbon. And like, it's crazy. Like, it's just nuts. It's it's a cool, very cool thing, and very humbling thing. So yeah, I'm excited to talk about it. Because it's, I've been so blessed to meet so many fortunate people, Fred included. 11:42 Not just doing your yard. We're now friends. 11:46 I feel we were actually friends before that, too. Yep, exactly. So yeah. I feel good because we're rep Fred and I were you know, we're Facebook official friends. So I feel like I made it. Yeah. Good. Good to see everything that's happened in our person. 12:00 So wives and kind of grown since they're now and now we're going to the point where I think is there a day that goes by we all don't text each other. 12:09 I don't think there is actually. Yeah, so it's like it's like texts like part of our dinner as long frightened as text chain started like 6am Kenny challenges in about 10am 12:22 Yeah, you already get started way too early. I don't know how you do it. It's not my choice. Yeah, I got a five year old elbowing me in the back. Daddy Get up, gotta get out. 12:32 So our guests just chimed in there. So let's go ahead and introduce them and kind of really start talking about the meat of this subject. So tonight we're joined by Jeremy Mendell, Jeremy is a member of our Patreon community and came to us with this topic. So Jeremy, welcome to the show. Thank you guys. been listening to you forever. Really happy to be here. Hopefully we're making a dream come true. Tonight. We're on bourbon pursuit. Thanks for putting up with us all these years. For I can't even tell you how long 12:59 Yeah, 13:00 dum dum meet your idols 13:02 Yeah, it's terrible and you were laying 13:05 So Jeremy let's hear your kind of coming to age tale of bourbon. How did how did you really get into it was their first sipar some sort of introduction rolling up 13:17 I had a you know like I would imagine a lot of people do just in high school. I guess I shouldn't say that but I'm pretty sure it's common we've amassed even master distillers say they started yet but we had a little poker room with some friends and there was we would always try and get a bottle of something for our games and 13:38 we found because then it truly was finding we were fine. We found a bottle with a nice little horse on the top and it was around little ball and 13:48 my goodness it was delicious. 13:51 So that was back when you let go into a store and buy some blends. 13:56 But that kind of kicked it off went through college. 14:00 Then, 14:01 probably two, three years after graduating college and went to the University of Arizona 14:08 was talking to a buddy of mine, Tori Levy, who was in my fantasy football league. He beat beat all of us. And when I sent him the money, he sent me a picture of him cracking a Pappy 15 and I had read about that, but I'd never had it or even knew anyone that could get it. So I said, How the heck did you get that thing? 14:33 And then he showed me oh my goodness, there is bourbon on the internet. 14:39 So it was just kind of a spiral from there. 14:43 But you know, from there, you meet a whole bunch of people, which I'm sure we're going to talk about, kind of create a little bourbon community and that's kind of how this whole series of cardboard boxes behind me came to be. Yeah, we're about to say that that kind of justifies your your level of music 15:00 But to this I think I think all of us have a room in the house or a closet of something that just has boxes of herbaceous ages cardboard boxes stacked with inside each other commitment so much as it's a level of cheapness. 15:17 I certainly don't want to pay $4 for a box. So my goodness. Yeah, yeah. Every time I get an Amazon package, I'm like, is this gonna be good for future use to ship something? Well, it gets it gets the point now where you can train your significant other when they understand what the right size boxes and they'll be like, honey, I save this for you. Yeah, my wife said, you know, this is the perfect box to get some of those little stupid bottles that you do with the stupid bottles. The two ounce the two ounce stamp. Gotcha. Yeah, little bit. It's perfect for your little stupid bottles. 15:54 She's supportive of the hobby. That's great. I'm supportive in that this is existing, but she 16:00 Certainly gives me crap all the time. Oh, yeah. Well, is it isn't that her job though? To give you a little shit? I think so. Yeah. Just join the club at that point. So you're fine. 16:11 So I guess let's go ahead and kind of talk about, you know, we can each share some of these stories of how we got introduced to it. And Fred, I don't know if we've ever heard your story, like kind of how were, you know, did did somebody introduce you to bourbon and sort of how did that that process? Yeah, I've man I was drinking bourbon. And 16:36 you know, I didn't actually drink in high school like that. So I was not, you know, the only times that I had drank in high school definitely was wasn't bourbon. He was smoking when I 16:48 was doing hard drugs. He's doing those Double Dragon drinks. 16:52 So when I went to college, I became a big, you know, beam drinker. And you 17:00 My first legal drink was you know, Jim being white and I remember going into the liquor store at that time and there there was like old Fitzgerald and well I mean think I've all I've thought about this a lot I wish I could travel back in time to Stillwater Oklahoma when I was you know just turning 21 which would have been 2000 and and just like clean those shelves out because they were loaded loaded with stuff that now I would you know, have spent four or 500 to 1200 dollars on so it's 17:34 I definitely was not drinking well, but when I when I was drinking 17:38 bourbon it was always Jim Beam white label if I was like, you know, wanting to you know, live high on the hog and getting Maker's Mark, but, but who's who's the person introduced you like you did? Did you actually just go into the store and say like, I think I feel like drinking or you ever been to a fraternity party? I have. Yeah. So who gave me the bottle 18:00 I don't know. 18:02 You know, I will say probably the moment that I fell in love with it, it was it was probably on a fraternity bus on our way to New Orleans from Baton Rouge. We were there for like some kind of convention. Man, it just it just felt it was very tasty. I love the taste of it. And then I found myself like ordering jack or Jim 18:30 instead of beer, or sometimes both. And you know at that at that young age, and then when I was when I was in Iraq, I you know, we couldn't 18:42 you know, was against the our general orders to, to have, 18:47 you know, to have liquor or have anything, so I would have friends, you know, pour out Listerine bottles and fill it with Jim Beam or jack daniels at the time and 19:00 Those are your stupid bottles. Yeah. 19:03 If you were if you were, if you compare like a traditional bottle of Listerine next to like beam or jack, they had the same color. So the MPs couldn't, couldn't crack it open, you know, because they couldn't, you know, they wouldn't necessarily, you know, think to look at that but so that's how I used to do it. And I actually did have there was a unit 19:27 that would go into like northern Iraq in our bill and they would buy cases of liquor and occasionally like the South African contingent that was there, they would break it out. So like bourbon is, in my adult life. bourbon has always played a role in terms of like, where I really fell in love with it. Be honest with you is with my wife, you know, because she's, she's a big bourbon drinker, like you know, and I started, you know, I was just drinking it was I appreciating it prior to her 20:00 Probably not. But I don't think I appreciated many things until my wife. No. I want to make sure she gets that sound bite. What about you, Ryan? We're I think we talked I think this is actually episode one right episode. One of verbiage suit is where we talked about ours, but let's go ahead and rehash yours. Yeah, so thinking back down memory lane. It was in Bardstown As you may or may not know where I'm from, but no. Yeah, definitely for that, man. That's all I know. You get like bourbon. royalty DNA in your blood. Yes, analog connections. Yes. Throughout. But now the first time it was like at a field party and my buddy, his name's Pikey. I know weird name. But uh, he had Evan Williams and coke. 20:50 And I was like, let me try that it was first time I kind of return I was like, all this tastes like sweet nectar. Like this is this is amazing. And then from there, yeah, just 21:00 drank so much Jim Beam white label in college. Oh my god, I can't even drink it now. Like, I can't even look at it, because it brings back so many bad memories, but good memories, but uh, I didn't really like start getting serious till I don't know, after college. I mean, my dad does a lot of work for the bourbon industry. He's a machinist. So he does tool and our pair and I would deliver parts to him or for him to the different distilleries. And I remember you know, just seeing the bottles they would always give them stuff and then I would take it to 21:35 and so I vividly remember taking like some alijah correct 20 ones and Noah Mills 15th and taking them to college parties and like, totally mixing them with coke or ginger ale and like, just had no clue what you know what I had, and so, yeah, just kind of progressed from there and then like, really start appreciating when I went I went to school at Rutgers and New Jersey. Kind of 22:00 Nobody there really knew it. So I kind of preached the gospel of there and kind of started really diving into it. 22:09 And then I met Kenny and then found out there's this whole world of collecting and trading and flipping and collecting, you know, all this stuff and then so you go down that rabbit hole and then I'm like, why don't we? I can't just like have the hobby I gotta start a business about it. You 22:25 can't just leisurely enjoy bourbon with friends. So like, let's start a podcast but yeah, it's, it's and now you know, I I'm no one's a stranger to me. And so like, I've just reached out to anybody that has the same interested in me. I'm not afraid to talk to them and reach out to them. So 22:45 I've met so many people that enjoy bourbon and it's been like, crazy and it's cool because I'm from there. And when I grew up, no one gave a shit about it. And now everybody gives a shit about it. And you know, just seeing the towel. 23:00 flourish and stuff it's pretty cool. Yeah, absolutely we'll touch more on like meeting new people and stuff with instead of bourbon all kind of recap mine I know I've probably said it before. I have the same sort of coming of age tale is Fred over there. So I joined a fraternity and university Kentucky's campus. And I mean, I remember back it was $10 for a 24 pack of Natty light and being an undergrad. Yeah, you always just get you have 10 bucks you give it to one of the juniors or seniors within the fraternity they'd run out you come back and like that's your that's your that's your drinking for the evening. However, I remember hanging out with some of the older upperclassmen in there, they were all sitting around drinking bourbon and coke and back then, our drink of choice was Kentucky tavern. That was that was our go to. And that was kind of like my first introduction that they were actually known as an attorney was actually known as one of the biggest bourbon drinking fraternities on campus. I don't know if that was a good thing or bad thing at the time. 24:00 Time, but because everybody knows what happens if you get a little too bourbon drunk when you're a little young and stupid, but back then it was, it was a it was a way to kind of get an introduction to it. So of course mixing the bourbon and coke. However, at the time, you know, this was also a time when you're drinking, not to sit there and enjoy your drinking to consume and have a good time. And, you know, all that aside, you don't feel as bloated when you have a few bourbon and cokes after you do try to have like eight to 10 eight to 1012 beers so it actually made you feel a little bit better going throughout the night. And now you're interrupting my dad's famous line is and I think I said this on Episode One is if you're if you're drinking beer, you're watching the party. If you're drinking bourbon You are the party. 24:50 So I've always loved that line. But anyways, so let's go on to the next t shirt. Yeah. 24:56 But yeah, I mean that's that's sort of how it started for me And ever since I did that. 25:00 Like I was always one person that was kind of like preaching like always do bourbon and cokes. During college, it just seemed like the easiest way to do it. And not only that is me and my roommate at the time we became social chairs. Social chair is a nice word to say party planner for back in college in the fraternity days. And so our biggest Actually, this is what I truly miss about college is that your biggest worry is where we're going to party on Thursday and Friday night. And that's that's what you had to set up. And so back then UK was a very dry campus and you couldn't have any alcohol with inside the fraternity houses at all. So our goal was to say how do we have house parties and still serve liquor? And so what we did is we get we got those massive Gatorade jugs that you see on the sidelines of football stadiums, and we filled those and it was one handle a Kentucky Tavern two to two liters of diet coke and so 26:00 Everybody drink bourbon and coke at the parties. And that's how we we continued that to flourish for a while, but after after college then is kind of when the appreciation started. I didn't stop drinking bourbon, it was still bourbon and cokes and that's where the progression starts where you start getting rid of the coke, you start getting rid of the ice and you start learning to drink it neat. Old forester became a staple for me. Every once in a while splurging on small batch. You know, Fred, you talked about going back to the store and, and thinking of all those bottles that you could have had my God even I went to the liquor store and when I was there buying for parties, I would buy, probably, gosh 10 cases of six or 1.75 liters of Kentucky Tavern every single week. I don't think I even looked at any other bottles on the shelves. I always looked at figure out where could I get the cheapest premiere like it's overpriced. 26:57 I mean, that was didn't really know any better at the time. 27:00 And be honest even when I even after college, I didn't really know any better either. I was drinking for as a small batch I didn't know limited limited editions even existed until I was working at a company and I there's a guy that worked there and we talked about bourbon all the time. You know, we we'd sit there and talk about bottles we come together and and he's the one introduced me to limited editions. And this was 2012, late, early 2013 timeframe, something like that. And he's like, Hey, I got a few extra things. I'll just sell them to you at cost because I'm just overflowing and and so he sold me a four roses hundred and 25th anniversary, an old rip squat bottle. 27:42 Jefferson's I think it was 21 maybe it was and they were all at retail at the time. I was just like, Oh gosh, like 27:54 80 bucks a bottle like you sure about this. And, and so that's that's kind of what got me on to that. 28:00 Train. And then of course, as as Jeremy said, you find out about online forums and then the whole world of different things start opening up to you if things that you never even knew existed. Yeah, and that's, I think that's really where the rabbit hole starts for most of us. And I think that's kind of where the conversation keeps going for a lot of us here because the online community is really where a lot of the relationships are built. It's also where a lot of relationships go to die and 28:30 let's be honest, there's a lot of butthurt that happens out there. 28:34 So feelings journals for the bourbon world, what are you talking about? Yeah, right. You mentioned one thing and then all of a sudden you get people either hating on your loving Yes. So Jeremy kind of talk about your introduction into like the the bourbon online communities. So my buddy Tory said, hey, yeah, I got this happy 15 years I finally found a good use for Facebook. So I 29:00 got invited to one of those deals. saw that, you know, my first love bourbon was was Blanton's. And I got on there and within five minutes 29:10 I saw somebody was selling a blends. It was dated in like 1988. And I didn't realize that whiskey existed before I drank it. 29:22 So bought that 1988 Blanton's and still have about a quarter of it. 29:28 And really from there, it's sort of just went into a networking you can almost fall into this accidentally and I'm sure that you all his experiences are very similar. 29:38 But you know, you find some people that you've got good relationships with. And now I'm a part of a few groups that I really proud to be a part of, and it's been really cool. And you know, I've got a network, really across the country coast to coast and actually even out of the country, just from those stupid Facebook groups. Can you enlighten me 30:00 Major towns if you needed to sleep on someone's couch, he would do bourbon. I'm going to Florida for business on Friday and I am crashing in the spare bedroom of a bourbon friend that night. No way. It's awesome. We're going to be drinking. Well, have you met him before in person? Yes, a couple times. Actually, he and I have not picked a barrel together. But we got to take part and what to me is my favorite part about a lot of this stuff is the charity component. 30:30 And there was a guy in Florida who 30:34 had a really terrible cancer diagnosis and young guy about 21 years old 22 maybe. And without getting super deep in the details of it. I went down there last year because we raised him about 17 18,000 bucks. And I went down there to 30:54 to go with him to present the money to him and his family. And that was the first time that I cracked 31:00 His little No I didn't crash his place but we met that time. 31:03 Like here's a here's a check by the way Can I stay in your spare bedroom 31:11 This is actually the first time crashing his house but we have met before but that's that's always a lot of fun and of course you know my wife thinks it's ridiculous but you know we're in this city I gotta go see this guy. 31:25 So, but yeah, you get you get this network and I'm sure you guys are all the same in that regard you got kind of people all over the country that you know from random, you know, this guy helped me find this thing I was looking for. And of course, my my wife would say well, why are you looking for that in the first place? You have 200 something 300 31:47 but this sounds all too familiar. 31:50 Never heard that before, right? Yeah, but But yeah, it's you know, you form these communities. We've we've been able to do a lot of good. 31:59 We've been 32:00 able to do a lot of bad too but but it's a lot of fun and it's this whole kind of separate world that you get to be a part of all around this brown water stuff that we all like to bring 32:13 up good. I was gonna ask you know like you talked about like meeting up like with it with individuals but do you ever like, like throw get togethers where your your buddies that you've met online or whatever you guys go to a house or you go to a bar Do you all have like special events or anything like that? So nothing that's terribly scheduled but 32:36 one of the bourbon groups I'm in is called karma. And we did the first one was, it's kind of always centered around barrel pics. So about a summer of 2017 we all got together did a four roses pick and not Creek pick a couple other things that I'm not remembering right now. But you know, there was a good 3035 of us they got together. Remember, we all 33:00 Went to Haymarket one night and that was a blast. And it's all these people who I recognize from one single picture. 33:08 But it was really cool. So we we've done that a couple of buddies. We Ribeiro, the whole bunch of Nashville number one, I think it was from Buffalo Trace and we threw it up in a barrel at a buddy's farm in Tennessee. And we all got together about two months ago, to see if it sucked. 33:31 And fortunately, it didn't suck. 33:35 So we had a weekend at an Airbnb on a on a river or lake or somebody of water. And it's a it's a great time and so and those people end up becoming some of your best friends. It was really, really bizarre but actually ends up happening that way. Every time I go meet my bourbon or internet friends, my wife's like, what are you doing going to meet your internet friends, you're going to be on dateline one of these times. 34:00 The barrel pick that I went to my wife was convinced I was going to be raped and murdered. She was. 34:07 Yeah. 34:09 Oh, gosh, I think we all get that, that every once in a while I think my wife is getting a little bit more tuned to it. Because of course, you know, through our community through Patreon, we get emails all the time, and we try to make it when we can have people saying, you know, we'd love to just come and meet up for a drink and, and sometimes we can make it happen and, and, and she's always kind of like, Alright, well just make sure you text me at the table in case you need. 34:33 Yeah, I remember one time I was going to meet with Kenny and doubled Patreon guys and I got the Uber and to me, it's like, text me as soon as you get there and like make sure as soon as you leave text me and I'm like, Okay, I'm promise I'm gonna make it home. They're not going to kill me. Or a tag team. We can we can take anybody. Yeah. But back to cut it. Go. Go ahead, Jeremy. I'll see you say you guys looked up so you could take them now. Yeah, Kenny's not. 34:59 Well, 35:01 I haven't worked out in a while you gotta he doesn't wire your wire sorry. Yeah, I am. So let's kind of back to the you know the community aspect of this. You know, you had mentioned karma. I mean, are you are you in in with other groups and stuff like that where you kind of find those ends? And I guess are there are there certain types of groups that create more bonds than others? 35:29 What do you get if you mix Seattle craft, Texas heritage and Scottish know how that's to bar spirits to our spirits traces its roots to a ranch in rural Texas run by the founder, Nathan Kaiser his family for six generations. Nathan grew up on the ranch was stories of relatives bootlegging moonshine, and after moving into Seattle, he wanted to keep the family tradition alive and he opened to bar spirits in 2012. They're very traditional distillery making everything from scratch and each day starts by milling 1000 pounds of grain their entire plant 36:00 product lineup consists of only two whiskeys, their moonshine and the only bourbon made in Seattle. Both bottles are being featured in rack house whiskey clubs next box. rack house whiskey club is a whiskey the Month Club, and they're on a mission to uncover the best flavors and stories that craft distilleries across the US have to offer rock house ships out to have the feature distilleries finest bottles, along with some cool merchandise in a box delivered to your door every two months. Go to rack house whiskey club.com to check it out and try some to bar for yourself. Use code pursuit for $25 off your first box. 36:37 What's up everyone? i'm john Henderson, your admin over at the bourbon pursuit Discord server. As a coordinator for the Christmas fundraisers held by the bourbon pursuit. I'd like to thank everyone who contributed. I couldn't be more proud of this community. One perk of joining the bourbon pursuit on Patreon is that you get access to real time chat with other members along with Kenny Ryan and Fred through discord from photo sharing and sample swaps to 37:00 events where ultra limited releases like willet bottles are exchange. There's always something going on. Right now over 300 members of the Patreon community have joined and are connecting over our passion for bourbon. If you're not on Patreon, now's a great time to join us and get involved with the community in a whole new way. Come check it out for yourself and be part of the behind the scenes chat photos and video calls. We'd like to have you join us on a live virtual board where we all discuss a pursuit series release just 37:28 are there certain types of groups that create more bonds than others? So community wise, I'm a part of two groups that really are my bourbon community, I would say. One is karma. That was a cost plus shit group which I'm sure we'll talk about what that is. 37:47 But essentially, it's, you know, I because of that I feel comfortable that if there's ever anything I want to try from some what's a good example? I'm up 38:00 Four roses, that four roses my top of the line, particularly the Oh, so recipe, and liquor barn had a Oh yeah, so barrel a month ago or so 38:13 I got two bottles over there. But I'm down in Texas and that's because of the connections I've made my cost call ship group karma. 38:21 That's been a great deal you meet all kinds of great people. 38:27 Then I'm also a part of a barrel picking group called 21 kings. And I've made a bunch of great connections there. I'm going actually I'm going to be up in Kentucky a couple weeks to pick a four roses barrel and willet ride barrel. And that's really it started more as a we want to be able to pick barrels and not share it among 200 people kind of thing. But you know, you make these connections with you. There's, it's really interesting. There's not a lot that I've experienced in the world that Bond's people together like picking a barrel of bourbon. Just 39:00 I don't know what the secret sauce in there I know what the sauces but 39:05 the common denominator. Yeah. 39:09 You pick a barrel of somebody, your pals, 39:14 you know, talk talk the whole thing through it's a painstakingly excellent process if you do it right. And I've been really lucky to get to do it a few times and I'm really excited to get to do it again here in a couple weeks. But it's been a really cool experience, you know, you get to get really, really good bourbon or rye or whatever it is you're picking, and you get to, you know, make connections with people that you wouldn't do, at least for me, certainly I never would have made those connections otherwise. Now I'm totally with you. And I guess that that also kind of thinks about you know, really where does the relationship start and how does it build and it I have the same things with with two other buddies that really 40:00 We we knew each or we didn't really know each other and then we've kind of found each other through bourbon and then their their personal lives. You start knowing about their children you know about their vacations, you know about you know, where they're buying a how their IRAs. Yeah, everything getting 40:19 better. I mean that's that's kind of like how it kind of blips like that where you it's just a really kind of snowballs where you kind of have this common foundation. And then from there, you start talking to them more than you did. The people that you went to school with years ago. And and they become something because it seems like bourbon is like an everyday thing. It's constantly changing and the people that care about it are always in tune with it. Yeah, absolutely. The you know, 40:47 it's really nice. You know, aside from just the personal connections, it's just great to have a network of fellow dorks that we can talk about that stuff with. 40:55 You know, there's I live in San Antonio, which is 41:00 You know, it's got a good bourbon community here, but it's sort of 41:04 from a maturity level. It really only became a big thing down here in the past three to six months. 41:12 So, you know, I always thought the Esquire bar had a really nice bourbon. So I guess choir is fantastic. And you know, they do the San Antonio cocktail conference down here. Yeah, I come every year was in the back of the room last time you did one. You can stay on this couch next time. Yeah, that's right. Do you mind? I mean, St. Anthony's expensive. Yeah, if you don't mind golden retriever sniffing around Yeah, you can always got a couch here. 41:40 But 41:42 there there's a few people here in there but like as compared to say like Houston with Houston's I mean, you guys know you guys had 41:51 the Houston bourbon society on a while back. That's been a big deal for a few years now. 41:57 So like, just as a 42:00 An example and I mean, no disrespect in saying this, but in the San Antonio group, the old Ezra seven year is a big damn deal right now. 42:09 And it's a good, it's an excellent drink. I really like it for what it is. But if you've been into the hobby really deeply for five plus years, then you know, you're you're drinking other stuff too. 42:24 So it's locally it's not as far down the line as say like a Houston or obviously anywhere in Kentucky, 42:33 which made the online community is a really great thing for us. And I guess another question with that is, are you seeing a lot of I mean, so you have your local society, and that's another place where a lot of people can go in and find some of those those bourbon connection those bourbon friends that live they live in your local area. Most of the time, you might find it on, you know, the the local page or the San Antonio page and then you see each other and me 43:00 And then all of a sudden things can happen through there. Yeah, the it's funny I'm hosting. And you know, Ryan, you joked about IRAs but that's 43:10 that's what I do for a living and I can't tell you how many times one of my bourbon friends would send me a text message or an emails like hey, do you mind if I ask you about this thing? So actually do know about a lot about the IRAs of some of my bourbon friends 43:23 have ESP gift but yeah, you end up I just right before we got on here, my buddy Josh Hayes gave me a call I talked to him for about a half hour and bourbon didn't come up. 43:40 So yeah, it's it's really cool to have connections like that. 43:44 You know, another thing that we kind of talked about earlier, too is and we'll kind of keep this train going with the kind of online community theme is we talked about raffles and and how these these kind of groups that are based off raffles, it also kind of creates a little bit of camaraderie. 44:00 Because you've got people that either they all try to play the same number and they fight each other for they get to know each other through there, or there's somebody that consistently win somebody else's raffle all the time. And so you have you have this also built into even though it's an expensive hobby, but it's something Yeah, we like in, in karma, my cost ship group the stupidest thing in the world, but when when mega ball went from 15 numbers to 17 or 19, or whatever the number is not 15 anymore. We were all very upset because that diluted our chances of winning stuff. 44:39 So we had to create our own weekly drawing, which is I got a bingo machine back there some somewhere did our own damn drawing because we didn't want to split a bottle 17 ways I want to split it 15 ways. 44:54 But yeah, you end up particularly in some of those secondary raffle sites you can lose just 45:00 an absurd amount of money if you don't really check yourself. Yeah, hey, Kenny for introducing me to raffles and risky whiskey in particular. Yeah, well, after a while, you figure, you know, that's the reason I'm doing it. I had to delete social media during the week. Thanks a lot. 45:17 But after a while, you end up as we were talking earlier, you kind of put planned but, you know, back to the, the community aspect of this, you know, we look at it as as an opportunity as as well to branch out, you know, my myself gotten to know people through these communities. And, and, you know, Jeremy, as you mentioned, you'll travel you go somewhere, you know, I've got connections now and a lot of states and so you can you can travel somewhere and know that you can confide in somebody and you can hang out and have a good time. You don't have to go and meet up at a bar somewhere to go and, and hang out. And ultimately, I don't know about you all, I'd actually rather go to somebody's house and dig into their collection. 46:00 Try something unique and I would just rather meet up at a bar. Well, it's funny we, my buddy Craig Lyman was here probably six months ago and there's three guys here locally they're a part of the karma group that we're that we're all a part of. And 46:18 we went out to a bar at all meet up and about halfway through my trying that Bob Dylan whiskey. 46:26 We all that stuff. I hate to break off on that, but what did you think of the Bob Dylan whiskey? I wasn't a tremendous fan of Oh, it's gross in it. 46:37 Like it like it all. It was bros about it. So there is a Okay, so it's, it's it's decal, and they got like the bottom of the barrel of the decal barrels. Because it's just it's like metallic. You know, there's like there's like this crazy like weird metallic note in there. Yeah, there was something to it that I had not tasted in bourbon. 47:00 before and I don't mean that in a good way. 47:03 And it inspired us we were 47:07 you Fred, you mentioned the Esquire we were down the road from the Esquire so maybe that was our problem. 47:13 But we all 47:15 that that drink inspired me to tell her because the best bar in San Antonio for whiskey is at each of our individual houses. Can we please just go there? 47:24 So that's what we did a lot better than the Bob Dylan whiskey. Yeah, I'm sorry, I interrupted you, but I had to ask your opinion on it. No, I don't totally remember where I was going with that. But you're absolutely right. That's up stuck by you, Fred. I mean, Fred, if you if you had enough connections now when you go somewhere that you'd rather not go to a bar and you'd rather go to somebody's house and dive into a you know, well, or gold vein or William Lou Weller, some old dusty Kentucky Tavern or Evan Williams or something like that. I've had you know, I've had some weird expense. 48:00 SS 48:03 please do share it out. Yeah, I've had some weird ones. But I'm you know it, I'll say that I still like to see what's going on in the town five years ago, I was like, I don't want to go to a whiskey bar because I have everything and I don't want to spend that kind of money. And I'd rather just kind of go hang out and see something else. 48:26 Now, I'm kind of going back to the, I feel like these, these bars are working hard to, you know, promote my culture, what I love, and you know, I gotta throw them a bone, I gotta, I gotta go in there and pay my respect to what they're doing. So that's kind of how I think of it now is like, I don't think of it as like, you know, look at them and their prices is just what they are if they're price gouging, you know, be very vocal about that, but 49:00 Often to like I end up correcting spelling errors and menus. I mean, for God's sake, why can't people spell will it correctly? It's true. 49:10 But I feel like I have, I have a purpose. And I'm supposed I need to be visiting these great temples that are bastions to whiskey. And you know, if they invite me and I'm going to go on a show, you know, check it out, but indeed do I like going to someone's house and going down in the basement and seeing seeing the collection? I mean, that's like to me that just doesn't get better than that. Now, what's weird is when like, you know, I come in the house. 49:45 And then the guys wife's down there, and I'm like, oh, oh. 49:53 And did you like she's like, who's this guy in the ass guy? 49:57 Oh, man, just ignore 50:00 Weird. So I didn't sleep on their couch. 50:04 Like I'm gonna go till now. 50:07 Yeah, well, I mean, it's, it's, it's fun to look at this and look at the relationships that you do build over time. Because it does seem like a lot of these hopefully will stand the test of time you never really know. Because it I don't know, maybe this is another kind of question is, 50:27 you know, as bourbon becomes more prolific and becomes more scarce and it's even harder to find these things and, and really, I don't know how much bigger these networks that people are creating right now can actually get, 50:42 you know, can they get bigger or you feel like, you know what, I don't have any more room in my life for new friends. We're just going to kind of keep it where it's at. For me and we I don't know if we actually call the episode this but you said the term finding your bourbon people 51:00 For me, selfishly, I found my bourbon people. 51:04 My biggest group of people that I care about is about 150 people and that's about as big as it needs to be and we're all having 51:13 like, 51:15 I don't know when this is going to air but right now there's this whole bsm bourbon secondary market thing going on Facebook, we couldn't care less. And it's been incredibly entertaining for us because I know because I've established my community. There's not really anything that's going to come out that if I really want to try it, I can't try it. from a store pick that comes out to got a buddy with a bottle of Red Hook ride that I'm going to see if I can't finagle announce it Oh yeah, battle. If you can find your your community then these groups of 50 some thousand people really don't matter all that much. So I guess another question is is so you found your people we've already decided three's enough. We're not bringing on a fourth co host 52:00 So we've got our people but how do you what would you say is is a good way for people to start getting introduced and sort of like find their you know, find their because you say they're missing connections they're getting to the gangs of the bourbon community. To me every every good bourbon connection I've come into is because somebody was doing something nice for somebody else. 52:25 You know, whether it's you know, there's last year almost city liquor here had a fantastic Elijah Craig pick, bought a bunch of it and help some friends that otherwise wouldn't have been able to get it. 52:38 Get it and they became good friends and that favor is I've been on the receiving end of that favor, you know, from different places all over the country. 52:50 And great bourbon connections for me rarely come from trying to price gouge somebody on a whatever store pic of 53:00 The month it is. 53:02 But if you, you know, just be cool with people and treat everyone this is you know, I guess cliche but 53:11 treat people the way you'd want to be treated. 53:15 You'll end up knowing some really cool folks and that's what's in that's what's happened to me. And that's the advice that I typically give people on between karma and 21 Kings I really don't need to know anybody else. Be able to know you guys 53:28 can be your friend. 53:31 Give me your card. Jeremy. One of my favorite things is like I get you know, when when I travel I do often like just kind of connect with someone who's a listener or reader just like or, you know, follows me on Instagram. I really do try to make an effort when I'm out to like, go hang out with people. And my favorite thing to do is like learn about their jobs. You know, because I find that we have 54:01 in people's pleat people's beliefs, because what I have found is is that bourbon is not. It doesn't attract as one race or one occupation or one political or religious belief. I mean, it attracts everybody. And to me that is what's so beautiful about this category is that I could be in a room with a staunch democrat and a staunch republican and they absolutely hate each other politically. But they'll just sit there and talk about how beautiful a new riff barrel pick is. And I'll talk about that now. They have three they might get into some, some fighting but once they cross the threshold, but it's kind of like, you know, Henry Clay, you know, the great Kentucky statesman, he said he wants said that bourbon was used to lubricate the wheels of justice. 54:59 It's like this 55:00 Great like, door opener for conversation? Well, I think even if you have the three drinks if you have committed commit each other from a place of respect, I mean, one of my, one of my good friends that I've met Andrew Goodman is a very far left person I am not. 55:17 And he lives in New York City. I was there for a business meeting. We went to one of the bars there. He bought me some vintage 17 rye, or no finish 21 rye. 55:30 And we talked politics for a good hour. And we walked out of there not hating each other and it's magic how that happens nowadays, you practically can't do it. Yeah. What problems you solve? I want to know down can 55:46 we solve the problem of how to get more Oh, yeah, so four roses, but we really solve any, any national issues, although that's become a national issue. 55:56 For sure. But you know, it's it's a conduit for 56:00 A really good conversation to like that, that I never would have had otherwise. And we continue to have it frequently. And then when it gets to be too, 56:08 too much we both saying I, you know, we don't want to fight with each other. Let's agree. 56:13 So I had kind of talked about it earlier, you know, with with my connection, pretty much my my mentor taught me that these are what limited edition releases are and he was able to, like I said, he gave me it at cost. So just to make sure that I'm not dealing with a story like this. I want you all to kind of talk about what are what are those relationships that you formed, that you've gotten, like a really, really good bottle of bourbon out of it just because of fostering relationship like that. I've had a lot. I've had a lot of guests. 56:48 And 56:51 the gentleman, you know, the gentleman passed away unfortunately he was his name is Dale Hamilton. And he 57:00 He was like the last. He was the guy who like got cola approvals for states of Weller. And he was like the last, you know, last guy from United Stiller's, the you know, for, you know, before they close, that's a Weller. And so he has this, you know, he had an incredible collection. And I helped him figure out what some things were, what some bottles meant. And, you know, we just and he came to my legend series at the Kentucky Derby Museum and we just we just became friends. I would visit him at Christmas. You know, he would come and we'd have lunch, he'd play with my kid. And he gave me a 1935 bottle of Weller. 57:46 And that was like a green Green Label blend. And it was fantastic. And the first time I opened it, I cracked it open with Tom Colicchio. From 58:00 Top Chef has just that right after my Top Chef appearance. And I wanted to celebrate with them and so I cracked it open with them. So I had like two, two really cool friends. You know that that that bottle kind of connected me to, you know, coming out of the gate strong here. Yes. Right Ryan, I think you should follow that. Well, I've had some great connections and relationships with people like Bill Thomas was kind enough to invite me to his house and stayed the night crashes. We didn't crash his couch. We had a room but but just his collection like we were at his bar and he's like, Guys, let's just go to my house. It's so much better here. And he had a green, you know, Green Label or not green or green bottle Van Winkle raw one early ditions it's one of the best bottles I've ever had. Drew Cole's been grew up with him from Willits. I mean, he's, he's one of the kindest, generous people he shares a ton of stuff for me, but the one the person I remember the most is probably my 59:00 Brother in law 59:02 I won't name any names but he works at heaven Hill and 59:06 he likes bourbon but he knows how like obsessed I am with him and he always goes out of his way to give me like a Parkers or an old fits release that just came out like he always is just finding ways to give me something and I'll always cherish that so it's all it means a lot to me. That's that's a relationship by blood that's hardly fostered over birth. 59:31 But we grew up friends before you know, brother in law's we were friends before so but yeah, those those are the bottles that are that need the most to me. Absolutely. In my case, it was really about people knowing what my tastes are. And as I kind of grew up in the hobby and grew up in the community, I would have people that would know the things that I enjoy and would suggest that I try something and oftentimes the suggestion would come with a 1:00:00 two ounce bottle of it showing up at my doorstep. And that's how I figured out that I love national distillers products. 1:00:08 Some I was telling somebody kind of the things that I liked about certain things that were my favorites and then before I knew it, there was a bottle of 1960s old granddad bonded 1:00:18 that showed up at my doorstep and 1:00:21 I guess I should be upset with them because it's caused me to lose a whole lot of money after that. 1:00:27 It sounds like that sounds like Ryan Ryan went on a huge old granddad kick for a while. Oh, gosh, you know it for me any of that old nationalist killer stuff is really just killer. It kind of hits me right in whatever my sweet spot is, for whatever reason, I'm telling we're Barban friends now. Hey, 1:00:44 I got some stuff to send you. 1:00:47 But 1:00:48 that, for me is the big is one of the cooler parts of the community is, you know, people who know you and I know other people's tastes and if I see something for 1:01:00 example I got a buddy who was a big q lover at four roses, and I'm not. And anytime I see a really good q i know exactly who it's going to a CPA office in Indiana. 1:01:15 Because I just, I know that somebody that will appreciate it for more than I. That's where we go. Yeah, it really is. I mean, and I think that's a good way to kind of start wrapping this up because we, you know, we really hit on a lot of things of, really, how do we how do we find your bourbon people? Right? I mean, it all starts by a friend or somebody introduces you to bourbon. It's very rare that any of us just stumble it on our own or, or maybe maybe you do get turned on to it by social media or for the general Media TV or purposes and stuff like that. But for the majority of us, there's somebody that gives us that introduction, and I think that we have all been in 1:02:00 situation to, and I know anybody that's probably listening to this podcast, you know, you're, you're one of the you're one of the geeks out there, you're one of the people that truly hone in on this craft, and you really appreciate it. So odds are is that you're sharing the love of bourbon with somebody else. And so that's just how everything continues to flourish and grow. And then from there yet, then it becomes like, oh, add me on Facebook, we add you to a few groups. And then at that point, you you've just you're all in and as, as Jeremy had mentioned earlier, the boxes just start showing up on your front door and, and your PayPal account gets a little lower, but that's just how it works. 1:02:39 That's just how it works. So, gentlemen, and Jeremy, thank you so much for joining tonight. This is again, a fun topic. And you know, I'll go ahead and kind of let you kind of say what you're gonna say there. I don't think I was gonna say anything. 1:02:55 To Are you 1:02:58 looking at me 1:03:00 You 1:03:01 know, it's it's the rule of thumb is just, I mean, I guess it's the rule of thumb for more than just the bourbon community, but don't be an asshole. 1:03:10 Yep. So you know, if you if you just be a nice guy, it's amazing what kind of connections you're come up with. And 21 Kings is picking up a barrel of will it right here in a couple weeks, and I'm fortunate enough to be one of the people doing it. And I never would have gotten the chance to do anything like that. Had I not been able to be a part of these communities. And it's really cool. It's some of the coolest experiences I've gotten to have and really thankful for that. You know, I guess the other bad thing about being in these communities too, is I didn't realize for years, I could just drive down to willet and just go pick up bottles in the gift shop and 1:03:47 I could have been doing it. I could have been doing it all along. And I just I just didn't know. So 1:03:53 that's the that's the bad part of it. But it's, it's also a good thing because you add a lot more appreciation for what you do have so 1:04:00 Again, everybody, thank you so much for joining tonight. Jeremy, do you have any kind of social handles or anything like that where people can find out more about you? Anybody who wants to I guess I'm around on Facebook Jeremy Mendell Twitter at Jeremy Mendell, Instagram at Jeremy Mendell, if you want to talk to me for some strange reason I'm available. Never know, I know where to send. If I see I know he so I know who to call and all of your VSOs to me, and I'll figure out some way to repay you that you'll be happy about. Very interesting. Very interesting. I know you kind of want to just go pick a whole barrel of Oh, yes. Oh, now just get out of them. I actually did I like I'd have one. It was from my pics from the icons of whiskey when I picked those fucking which was at the 17 or 18. 1:04:53 Yeah, we had all the recipes. It was I think that was a 1:04:59 I think it was like a 1:05:01 11 year old Yeah, that was I think the 2017 one that was really good and it's incredibly dorky that I can just pull out of my head 1:05:13 so that was when I was with whisky magazine and yeah that we did that. And that was like the one of the only times you saw all the all the recipes and that was back when four roses. I think they brought out 40 barrels from for us to taste and guide you lucky forget for now. So it's the way the world now. Alright, let's go. Let's go ahead and we'll sign off. So again, Jeremy, thank you so much for coming on tonight. It was a pleasure talking to you. And seriously, thank you so much for bringing this topic up. Because it's it's fun to kind of, you know, really take a retrospective look into really kind of how we all got here and why many people are still actually listening to this podcast because they all have some sort of coming of age tale that's probably very very similar. So 1:06:00 Make sure you check out Jeremy and all those social handles, make sure you check out bourbon pursuit as well as spread MiniK on the Twitter, the Facebook and the Instagrams. And if you're like Jeremy, and you want to help support the show, he's part of our community, you can be part of our community as well. patreon.com slash bourbon pursuit. So thank you, everybody. That is a part of it. And thank you, everybody that joined into the chat and watch us live. Another perk of just being a part of the community is you can be a part of these things as they're happening and be able to just chat along with us. So with that, thank you, everybody, and talk to you all next week. Transcribed by https://otter.ai

This episode was recorded at the International Hoof-Care Summit in Cincinnati. I was fortunate to sit down with fellow podcaster, Dr Simon Curtis for an amazing interview.  Dr. Simon Curtis has been a practicing farrier in Newmarket for 44 years. He has lectured and demonstrated farriery in more than 30 countries on 6 continents including the USA, Australia, India, Russia, and Brazil. He is an author of 4 textbooks on farriery. He has been published in numerous journals. Simon is the only farrier to have been awarded an Honorary Associateship of the Royal College of Veterinary Surgeons. He is a Past Master of the Worshipful Company of Farriers (2001-2002) and has chaired the Farriers Registration Council (2006-9). He is a Fellow of the Worshipful Company of Farriers by examination (FWCF) and is currently an examiner. Simon is a 4th generation farrier; his family have been farriers and blacksmiths on the Cambridgeshire and Suffolk border for at least 150 years. In 2005 Simon was inducted into the International Farriers Hall of Fame at the Kentucky Derby Museum. He gained a First Degree, Bachelor of Science (Hons) in Farriery through Myerscough College, University of Central Lancashire in 2011 and completed a PhD degree in Equine Physiology and Biomechanics in 2017. In 2018 Simon Curtis was presented with the Sir Colin Spedding award for his contribution to equine knowledge and published The Hoof of the Horse. You can keep up to date with Simon's work on Facebook: facebook.com/drsimoncurtis  Follow for useful information on farriery, how-to guides, book release news, future lectures, events and more! I hope you enjoy this as much as I did. 

In releasing his latest album, Two Lane Town, JD Shelburne feels he has recorded the album that could take him to a whole new level. “I’ve been working really hard on this album. I think it is my best collection of songs that I’ve released thus far,” he says of his fourth project. He says that he’s definitely learned a lot since he released his first disc that was self-titled, back in 2012. “It’s all about writing and recording great songs,” he says. “It all boils down to just a great lyric. I try to write/record songs that I can relate to, ones that are catchy and have a great melody that I feel my fans can relate.” Of the tracks from the new album, JD says there’s one in particular that has a special place in his heart. “I co-wrote a song on the record called ‘Born For This.’ It’s the first song on the record, and it talks about picking up guitar and adapting to a new venture in life while attending college and just running with it – I was nineteen when my grandmother passed away. My life turned around in an instant when I found that guitar after her death. I didn’t realize until early in college that music was my true passion in life. I had played three different sports growing up, and just led the simple small-town life. I picked up the guitar, and my life hasn’t been the same since. It’s kind of the title track of my life. When I was about to finish college, there was a point when I realized I was about to be an adult and wondered what I was going to do with my life.  Where I was going to go? I honestly felt like I was born to play music and entertain people. It was just something that I gravitated towards naturally. Nashville, Tennessee was my next destination and I haven’t looked back since.” J.D began that gravitation while growing up on a tobacco farm in Taylorsville, KY, a tiny town southeast of the Ohio River near Louisville KY. At age 19, he found a guitar after the death of his grandmother and began learning to play and sing on his own. By his sophomore year of college, he had found a few gigs at some local bars in the Louisville/Lexington, KY area and developed a fan-base that eventually landed him on some of the biggest stages in the business, opening for some of the nation’s hottest stars. Eventually, Shelburne was adding original songs into the set mix, in addition to producing songs of his own material. In 2002, Kentucky fell in love at first sight with Shelburne, then a college student and a small-town kid with a wide smile, natural singing voice and a love of faith, family and his hometown of Taylorsville, KY. But that small-town image is merely a fond memory now that he has moved on to Nashville down the path to music stardom. Now find him soaking up the music scene, touring cities, building a fan-base and celebrating a decade of success playing venues all across the southeast trying to get his big break. Today he’s among the most hardworking and relevant country singers in the business. They say Nashville doesn’t work that way anymore – that talented musicians with very few connections don’t stand a chance. But Shelburne proved that Music City’s engine still runs off of talent and persistent driven antics. Critics find him credible. Fans pack his shows. Venues strive to book him. There are very few new artists recording songs today about whom that can be said. During his whirlwind career explosion, he has performed with over 50 national acts ranging from stars such as Montgomery Gentry, Craig Morgan, Jamey Johnson, Kellie Pickler, Steve Wariner to Clay Walker and Johnny Lee, performed at some of the region’s most famous venues such as the Historic Ryman Auditorium, Rupp Arena, Murphy Center, KFC Yum Center, Freedom Hall, Churchill Downs and Old Cardinal Stadium which recently drew the Kentucky State Fair’s largest crowd of the concert series. JD performed “God Bless America” prior to the 2016 Quaker State 400 NASCAR race at Kentucky Speedway to over 100,000 attendees. In September 2017, JD made his NBC Network Television Debut performing the National Anthem at the NASCAR XS Myrtle Beach 300! He has also been featured in Country Weekly Magazine, Kentucky Alumni Magazine, Kentucky Monthly Magazine amongst many other national publications including the Huffington Post. His debut music video “Farmboy” gained him thousands of new fans by airing on the TNN Top Ten Countdown nationwide on Heartland TV network and ZUUS Country Network. In 2015, he made his Nationwide debut on GAC – Great American Country Network and also CMT.com in October with his second music video entitled “Hometown” written about the demise of his small town. On October 21, 2015, JD debuted as #1 trending artist on CMT.com edging out Taylor Swift, Luke Bryan, and Jason Aldean! He has performed over 2,000 concerts all over the southeast as well as over 300 festivals. JD’s outfits have been featured on display at the Kentucky Derby Museum at Historic Churchill Downs from his appearances at the Kentucky Derby. In 2016, he was invited to perform in the Kentucky State Capitol for the State Senate as well as the House of Representatives where he performed his own rendition of “My Old Kentucky Home” for both parties. JD was named an Honorable Kentucky Colonel and was also presented the honor of “Admiral” by the Commonwealth of Kentucky. Also, in 2016, the University of Kentucky’s College of Communication and Information named JD their 2016 Most Outstanding Alumnus! On September 18, 2018, he made his World Premiere on CMT! In June 2017, Shelburne launched his world premiere official music video for “Better Man” that was filmed in Midway/ Millville, KY. The music video made its Network Television Debut on Great American Country (GAC) on June 23, 2017, and is currently in Nationwide rotation. At the 2017 Kentucky Derby, Shelburne was a guest chef of Diners, Drive-Ins and Dives host Guy Fieri at his restaurant alongside Guy, Travis Tritt and NFL Legend Jerry Rice! Shelburne, most recently reached #29 on the Music Row chart with his debut single of “One Less Girl”. The single lead him to features on CMT and reaching over 120,000 views online! His follow-up single “She Keeps Me Up Nights” will impact radio this summer and has already reached #6 on the CMT 12-Pack Countdown! JD also has performed at several prestigious nationwide events: NBA Basketball Games, Guaranteed Rate Field for the Chicago White Sox, Suntrust Park for the Atlanta Braves, The Kentucky Derby, Unbridled Eve Derby Gala, Barnstable Brown Derby Gala, events for Jim Beam Brands and Four Roses Bourbon, NCAA Division I College Football/Basketball Games, The National FFA Organization National Convention, Omni Hotels & Resorts, Marriott Hotel Brands, NASCAR Racing Events, Minor League Baseball Games, Dollar General NASCAR Racing Team Event, CMA Music Festival, the NCAA Women’s Final Four, SEC Men’s Basketball Tournament and more! As you can imagine, the road is a place where he loves to be. “I rarely take days off. I performed 230 tour dates last year, and in 2016, I performed 246. I have always taken nearly every opportunity given to me that is within a reasonable distance. I have a relative in the family that was a Country artist back in the 1970s, and his name was Guy Shannon. He had a couple of charted singles and played the Opry several times. He told me before I moved to Nashville, ‘You’ll never get discovered in a basement. Anytime you can get a gig somewhere, take it and run with it. I have taken that advice and used it tremendously. I play shows just about everywhere. I’ve been in the business ten years, and I’m still hungry,” he says eagerly J.D. has high hopes and expectations for the new music. “I want to try to get on a national tour and spread my music and my name to places I’ve never played. I think I’ve got some great songs on this record, and I think so many fans will relate and be drawn to this new album. I still have a lot of ground to cover and I don’t plan on slowing down anytime soon.”

It’s the topic everyone loves to hear about, but hardly anyone is willing to talk about. And that’s the inside secrets of distribution. Distributors “hold all the chips” so it’s time we find out how deals are made. We sit down with Mike Bridges, who owns Jack's Liquor Beer Wine in Fremont, Nebraska and was once a rep for Nebraska Wine and Spirits which was later purchased by Republic. He talks about what really happens behind those closed doors, who gets allocations (high volume stores vs small mom and pop shops), and consumer frustrations. There’s a lot of ground to cover in this one. Show Partners: Find out what it’s like to taste whiskey straight from the barrel with Barrell Craft Spirits. Learn more at BarrellBourbon.com. Receive $25 off your first order at RackHouse Whiskey Club with code "Pursuit". Visit RackhouseWhiskeyClub.com. Show Notes: This week’s Above the Char with Fred Minnick talks about the smoked grain debate. How did you get into bourbon? Tell us about your time in the food and beverage industry. How did you transition into a distributor position? What was the distributor called at that time? How do allocations work? Is there any transparency between the rep and the business? Do they tell you how you can get the allocated items? What motivates a distributor to sell products? How do distributors spend money to get retailers to carry products? Talk about high volume retailers vs mom and pop retailers. Do your distributors take price gouging seriously? How much blame are you putting on the distillers for not getting allocated items? Are they using the distributors to take the blame? Would a distributor advise a brand to raise a price? Do stores ever do favors for distributors in order to get allocated items? What would be a better system? Are allocations really down every year? How has your view changed as a retailer now? 0:00 I'm not bashing the wholesaler so to speak, you know, I consider him like my wife can live with her can live without her. I mean 0:21 what's up everybody it is Episode 236 of bourbon pursuit. I'm kenny. And we got some news to cover, so let's get to it. The Kentucky Derby Museum is back with the legend series. It offers three nights of casual in depth conversations with pioneers and titans of the bourbon industry. And each night in the series is hosted by our very own Fred MiniK in each evening features a different bourbon master who handpicks a selection of Bourbons to go and taste or each legend shares his or her expertise and engages with guests through their senses as they taste fine Bourbons and enjoy appetizers as well, on January 23. We'll have Peggy noe Stevens who was our guest back on episode 198. 1:00 into a fourth on Thursday, January 30. We have none other than Freddy Johnson who we all know and love. And he's been back on episode 59 in 115. And wrapping it up on February 6 is Connor Driscoll who you heard most recently on episode 231. tickets to each event is $75 or there is a complete package for $200. You can buy your tickets right now by going online to Derby museum.org Woodford Reserve has released its annual expression of the double double oak bourbon. It's part of its annual series that celebrates master distiller Chris Moore's his commitment to innovation and craftsmanship. double double oak is the result of finishing fully mature, Woodford Reserve and double oak bourbon for an additional year and a second heavily toasted but lightly charred new oak barrel. The extra year in the barrel creates a bourbon that is distinctly spicier than its original counterpart, known for its sweeter taste and finish. The product is available in limited quantities at Woodford Reserve distillery. 2:00 And select liquor stores around Kentucky coming in at 90.4 proof with a suggested retail price of 4999 for a 375 ml bottle. Oklahoma Attorney General Mike hunter issued an opinion Tuesday that could affect who could potentially obtain a license to sell alcohol and the state. residency requirements for obtaining a retail license for wine and spirits or even though wholesalers license and Oklahoma are likely to be found in violation of the Commerce Clause and the US Constitution. Oklahoma currently has a five year residency requirement for those seeking to obtain a license to sell Wine and Spirits at retail or wholesale level. In other words, a liquor store owner has to approve he or she has been a resident for five years before applying for the retail license. The same goes to wholesalers. Tennessee had this similar requirement of two years residency for some liquor license. And that rule was challenged in the US Supreme Court deemed it unconstitutional back in 2019. So we'll see where this is gonna play out this weekend. 3:00 celebrates 160 years of early times whiskey. So here's a quick history lesson. early times was originally produced using the clinical early times method of whiskey making, and this consisted of mashing grain and small tubs and boiling beer and whiskey and copper stills over open fires. This unique method of production continued until 1918. With prohibition, five years barrels of mature early times whiskey sat idle in the distilleries, classic ironclad maturation warehouses, in dire need of whiskey to operate as a bottler and wholesaler during Prohibition owlsley Brown owner of brown Forman acquired early time stocks in 1923, the company's first ever purchased brand, and it resumed sales under its medicinal whiskey permit. As prohibition came to a close brown Forman geared up to begin distilling early times once again. To keep up with the bourbon brands growth brown Forman acquired the old Kentucky distillery which later became early times distillery providing a brand a home of its own. 4:00 Whiskey popularity grew early times one of the first brands to recognize and capitalize on the mixability of bourbon and cocktail trends, which led to become the number one Kentucky bourbon in America back in 1953. Today the historic plant has now named the brown Forman distillery. But it remains home of early times and stands as the longest continually operating distillery under the same ownership in Kentucky. This year early times is honoring their tradition with a throwback advertisement that once said, The whiskey that made Kentucky whiskeys famous. If you follow bourbon pursuit on any of our social handles, you seen that Ryan and I we took a quick trip to Woodinville whiskey company last week. We took the 6am flight from Louisville to Seattle drove up to Woodinville, which is surrounded by 100 plus wineries and sat down with the co founder Brett Carlyle and got to know more about their story and what they're producing for an upcoming podcast. Then after that we tasted through some barrels and selected to that will become prestigious 5:00 series, y'all, Ryan and I, we can't even begin to describe how good their bourbon is. They're doing everything right with locally sourced grains, a finely tuned still an operation that was under the guidance of the late great Dave pickerel. He goes going into the barrel at 110 proof aging and Rick structures two hours away that mimic the climate of the Midwest, and nothing is getting pulled until it's the least five years old. And if you're in the know already, and you've tasted it, then you're probably already a fan. But we are super excited to be able to get these special barrels into the hands of all of you soon and looking forward to an eventual release from Woodinville whiskey as well. Make sure you follow us on social and Patreon for all the latest updates for pursuit series. For today's show, it's one of those podcast topics that people love to hear about. It's the inside Secrets of the trade that usually no one's willing to talk about. However, we sit down with Mike bridges. He owns Jack's liquor, beer and wine in Fremont, Nebraska. He was also once a rep for distributor for 6:00 braska wine and spirits, he talks about what really happens behind those closed door deals. Who gets the allocation? Is it the high volume stores? Or is it the small mom and pop shops? And where does most of that consumer frustration really stem from? We cover a lot of ground in this one, I'm sure you're really going to like it. You know, we like to see what people think of the show as well. Leaving reviews helps new people searching podcasts, find us. And you can help us by going to rate this podcast.com slash bourbon. And you can leave a review for iTunes, Spotify or pod chaser. We always appreciate seeing these as it helps grow the show and find new listeners. All right, now let's get on with it. You can sit back and relax. Let's hear what Joe has to say from barrel bourbon. And then you've got Fred minich with above the char. 6:46 It's Joe from barrell bourbon. Tasting whiskey straight from the barrel was truly a life changing moment for me. In 2013. I launched barrel craft spirits so everyone could have the experience of tasting whiskey, a cast strength next time ask your bartender for 6:59 barrell bourbon. 7:01 I'm Fred MinnicK. And this is above the char. If you follow me on Instagram, you may recall this post I put up a few few months ago. It was when I was in California. Somebody had brought me a bottle of war Bringer mesquite, smoked Southwest bourbon finished in a Sherry cask. I was very excited to taste this because anytime I see mosquito on anything, my mouth starts to water. And I think of my childhood days eating all that great mesquite smoked barbecue sopping up that sauce with a piece of white bread. I love mesquite barbecue, so good. But anyway, I digress. I'm not talking about barbecue. I'm talking about whiskey. So I was very excited to taste this stuff. And which bag did I put it in? I put it in my carry on not my check in so TSA was very glad to take the bottle from me. They actually thanked me later and said they would have a good time with it. So 8:01 You're listening to say, I hope you enjoyed it, but you also kind of suck. So anyway, I get a bottle sent to me from the company because I really wanted to taste this stuff. And I tasted just the other day and I was kind of like nervous about tasting is because I love mesquite so much that I kind of, I'm always I'm always a little nervous when someone plays around with one of my favorite flavors. And sure enough, it kind of hit the mark. I tasted the musky, you really cannot. You can't. You can't taste this without getting a big ol mouthful of mesquite and it got me to thinking what are some other products out there that are using smoke techniques for the grains? Well, there's actually quite a few. One of my favorite is the MB Roland dark fire they use a dark 9:00 Fire technique to smoke their corn. Dark fires a term that they use in Western Kentucky for a procedure in which they kind of like slow smoke the tobacco before they roll it up and in be rolling, which is in Christian County, Kentucky, applied that nice local technique to their whiskey and it shows and they're fantastic. But here's the thing. They are so far left or to the right, of what we anticipate bourbon to taste like that. If you put if you put this in a flight of regular Kentucky bourbon, you know this mesquite smoke bourbon or the dark fire bourbon, you're going to think it's flawed if you don't know it's got a special smoking technique to it. So over the years, we have had all of these incredible debates about whether or not barrel finishes such as angels envy. 10:00 In fact, urban on now, when you have the smoking techniques being applied, we might have to start applying a new debate to the conversation of what his bourbon is bourbon allowed to have smoke applied to the grains. I think that's a question. We need to start asking because traditionally it has not been applied to grains. Now it's, it's applied throughout in scotch and Irish whiskey. But if we start seeing a political of smoke grains enter Kentucky bourbon or other states Bourbons, then what we're going to find is there's going to be all kinds of different flavor profiles in Kentucky bourbon, or Missouri bourbon or whatever type of bourbon. You may think that's good, some traditionals may think it's not. Either way. I'm open for 11:00 debate. I think it's a good conversation to have. So hit me up on Twitter, Instagram or Facebook and let me know your opinion as to whether or not smoked bourbon should in fact be bourbon or should it be called something else? So I look forward to your comments and we may even read them on the air in the next episode of bourbon pursuit. And that's this week's above the char. Hey, hit me up on that Twitter, Instagram, and Facebook at Fred minich. Until next week, cheers 11:37 Welcome back to that episode of bourbon pursuit the official podcast of bourbon the trio here tonight talking for a really fun subject because this is actually one that we had talked about it for probably Ryan and I, we probably discussed it for maybe over a year to now of trying to find somebody from the I don't know it's tough to kind of say like put an adjective to a 12:00 But from the distributor world, and having to come on the show and kind of reveal some dirty secrets, because it's, it's something that's really, really hard to get, you know, nobody for the actual companies seem to want to talk about it. But we kind of backdoored a little bit to actually make it happen. So I'm kind of really excited to get this juicy scoop on what happens and why liquor stores get certain allocations why some don't do some play favorites. Some, some maybe do some don't. I don't know. But I guess we'll find out. Uh, you know, what do you all think we're going to get into tonight, Ryan, I'll hand it over to you. 12:36 Well, I think distributors are an evil empire and an organized mafia. 12:44 But I you know, with that, I don't exactly know what all goes on what takes place. So it would be I am interested to see what goes on and what takes place and you know, maybe there's a world we don't understand and and why. Maybe 13:00 Our negative outlook on distributors is maybe not the correct one but I have a feeling it might be and so yeah, just bring it to you. You're already like my magic eight ball I already know what it's gonna say exact I'm trying to give him the benefit of the doubt you know so that's why we have them on but I know for sure really excited about because like I said we we hit on distributors all the time and especially being in the business now we've made them more so well I mean, let's give some context of the story like so what what is it that that we're it let's not say hate right we're not hate because we have to work with them. It's it's a nice Yeah, well, but kind of talk about like, what is the what what's what's the what's really grinding your gears right now with it? I mean, basically, it's just a pastor in you know, for big brands, I can totally understand because the distributors out there marketing and selling for you, helping push product but like small brands, it's really just a pastor and it it seems like they're just getting a piece of pie just because it's mandated through law. 14:00 And it just doesn't seem fair right to the people that are actually making the product don't make as much money as the distributors or percentage as much as distributors or the retailer. And and you know that's that's why I don't like it. Wish we could all be DC Yep, exactly we got a we got a long way to go until that happens. What about you Fred Do you have a Do you have a probably as a more realistic outlook on love or disdain some of my best friends are distributors like very higher up high very high up in the food chain and San Francisco world spirits competition has several fellow judges who are distributors so I know the business very well. And and I know kind of you know that they are the they are the cogs that really make this this world work. And they also have a very powerful lobby and it's 15:00 It's incredible. It's incredible, because, you know, what a lot of Ryan said is is not untrue. And the distributors would say the same thing. 15:14 You know, big, but at the same time, the reason why distributors are they have so much power is they can always go to like, you know, the government and say like we are the We Are the line of legal age drinking, like you don't have 15:36 people ensuring that accounts aren't serving, 15:41 you know, serving to minors and the distributors actively, actually kind of, you know, police that so they they have built in a network in the in this country that our government cannot cover and so when 16:00 It when we ever come to talking about getting rid of distributors, they can always raise their hand and say, well, we're kind of the reason why your 16 year old isn't getting drunk all the time. And that and that's the picture they paint. And you know, maybe it's accurate, I don't know, but 16:17 they're very good at protecting themselves. It kind of sounds like the TSA because the TSA is never actually stopped a terrorist attack there a false sense of security in the day, so I don't know. I mean, so I'll give you my TSA story. The, in their defense, I was in, I was unlovable, and a guy ahead of me, had a loaded handgun and shin and as he should know, he should I mean, I think the general populace knows you can't walk in with a handgun today. This is like a 55 year old guy and he's like, oh, man, I left him in there. No, I thought it was a my check in. Yeah, I don't know what happened to him. I mean, I I looked but I never saw 17:00 reports about it, but he, but I don't know what he was going to do with that. But I know that TSA stopped that guy with a loaded handgun from getting into the low level plane. So Well, that's a first I'll give you that. 17:15 Alright, so let's go ahead and introduce our guests tonight. So tonight we are today, whoever whenever you're listening to this show, we have Mike bridges. Mike is the minority owner and general manager of Jax liquor and wine in Fremont, Nebraska. So Mike, welcome to the show. Thank you. It's great to be here. Absolutely. So before we kind of dive into this, you know, I kind of want to give people an understanding of you would always like to start off with one question is, how did you get into bourbon 17:42 to the modern age bourbon, I got into it. When a guy named Brett Atlas stumbled into our store, and he's, he's a, he's a he's a friend of the show. I think we're all pretty relatively familiar with him. 17:55 Before that, it was just drinking it but you don't only walked up to the counter 18:00 With about 17 different bottles of things. And so I started asking questions and, you know, we had some Elijah Craig 12 year old label both sizes, we hit, you know, 750s 175 we had some before 18 years and different things. And that conversation led to another conversation which, you know, he mentored me on things to look for and things to ask my distributor for. 18:23 Oddly enough things that they wouldn't volunteer to me, unless I, you know, started asking the questions. When I worked for the distributor, six, seven years before that. 18:33 My biggest experience with bourbon is when Maker's Mark we couldn't get 175 or leaders because they ran out of juice and they were low on supply. So that would have been 2007 2008. So it was, it was pretty interesting. But yeah, it's a it's been a world of change since basically 2015. You know, that let you say that. I don't even think Maker's Mark still makes the 1.7 19:00 Five do they favor? Do they ever come back? I can't remember they do. Absolutely they do now right that's the number one the number one skew in like you know five or six party martes no 19:15 big ballers up in there then so I guess kind of let's okay let's let's rewind the clocks a little bit, kind of talk about you know your time working in the the food and beverage industry as well because I know you had mentioned that before we started recording. You know, when I was in Phoenix for the 16 years I was there I was at the Venetian resort all 16 years, and was everything from a banquet server all the way up to director destination services when I left and move back to Nebraska where I'm from so that's kind of where it was, but those years were all spent in the wine world. So when I came back to Nebraska and got my job within Nebraska wine and spirits, I was considered quote unquote a wine expert and did a lot of 20:00 My own wine dinners for my customers and things like that. And again, other than drinking knob Creek back in the day, and learning what Maker's Mark was when we didn't have it to sell and getting yelled at by every account. 20:14 That's kind of where it was and how it went. 20:19 And then so that was at the Venetian and then kind of talk about your transition into working for the distributor side. You know, oddly enough, I just took a director of food and beverage job at the brand new Hilton in downtown Omaha, when I got a call from an old high school coach of mine who was in the distributor business, and asked if I really had any interest in moving to my back to my hometown, as he had a salesman job that he thought I'd be really good for and good at. And that's how that started. That's how that came to be. And that was back in 2006. It's always about knowing the right people. Very true. Nobody, nobody actually applies for a job anymore. It's just all inside handshakes. I think that's how it all goes. 21:00 You know, it's ironic about that I had applied at three different distributorships before that, and never gotten an interview. 21:07 This will show them exactly right. If I didn't do Fred's yard, or no Kenny, they would not be part of bourbon pursuit. So there you go, that 21:18 looks nice this year, by the way. 21:21 Let's see what happens. You know, he actually sharpen my blade on my mower. Fred, does he do that for you? Fred doesn't know. You know, I actually don't mow my yard right now. 21:35 So back to conversation here. So you were working. What was the distributor called at that time? Because I know you had mentioned it. It eventually got either bought out or purchased by a larger one. Yeah, at the time it was Nebraska wine and spirits. And then there was also united distillers which was a separate side. So Nebraska Wine and Spirits was being if you will, and united was brown Forman and then Republic national distributing company came into 22:00 State bought both companies and then you had a Falcon and Eagle division in Nebraska, and are in DC. Gotcha. So just that the Empire just keeps growing for, for Republic then correct? Yep. So let's, um, you know, I guess let's let's kind of dive into the meat of the subject here because this is, this is one of the things that people are always fascinated to know more about. And I mean, let's just kind of just go blunt and straight into it, like, how do allocations work? Like how do people get something of one thing versus something else? 22:35 You know, it's gonna sound wrong, but it's pay to play. And I don't mean illegally pay to play. It's I asked that question for year three years ago. How do I get more allocated items? How do I get barrel pics? How do I do this stuff? And basically it was support the brands that those portfolios are part of stack them high in the store, and you know, so we did it and we have an owner, a majority 23:00 owner with with endless funds and we bought and stacked and if you came into our store it would, it would kind of probably surprise you for the for the small sizes, the amount of displays we have and how big they are. I know we're talking bourbon but it's not odd. We buy 1200 cases of Windsor Canadian at a time just because it's so popular in Nebraska. I've always got 100 beam on the floor. I've got 50 to 80 Maker's Mark. And then you go to Sam's rack and everything they they do often 200 fireball, you know everybody's favorite whiskey on the floor. And that's how we got to where we are. And it really did you know last year when we got to do an O w a barrel a Blanton's in a Buffalo Trace all at the same time was kind of, if you will, our arrival and yeah, but we had to really invest in that to get to where we were. Then if you fast forward to where we are now. I've got some executives from RTC coming out tomorrow because I don't feel I'm getting what we deserve. 24:01 was certain things that are coming out. 24:04 And based on allocations, so they'll tell you that but yet, when things like old fits 13 year spring edition come out, every account gets one bottle. So whether you buy a lot or you don't I know that's a different distributor. But it gets very frustrating to display what you do and invest what you do, and then sell it and then get the same one bottle allocation everybody else does or the other 60 people in the state and nobody wants to believe that they come into your store and you tell them, Hey, we got one bottle and it went to our best customer. They will not leave you they'll sit there and argue with you. 24:41 Is there any like transparency that happens between a rep and the business? Because when I when I think about this, you know, I come from a tech background and there's a lot of stuff out there about like open data collection like the government does it and you have access to be able to see exactly like what's happening here. 25:00 There, but is everything sort of like, Hey, my name is Jim, I'm your account, whatever you want, you have to go through me. And you say, Jim, I bought, you know, XYZ cases last year, I want to be able to get a, b and c. And he's like, that's just not in my calculator. Like, is there something that like, there's their level of transparency there? Or is it just completely like, all blocked off because of one person? You know, it's a little of both. You really, it's constant, constant constant, you know, badgering of that salesperson who then has to get ahold of his boss, who then has to get ahold of his boss. Just recently, As matter of fact, last week, whistlepig became available in the state of Nebraska. Well, we've known it's been coming for about, I don't know, six weeks. So I texted my salesperson to say, Hey, I hear whistle pigs in stock. When will it show up? He's like, No, it's not. And so I screenshot at an event in Lincoln or in Omaha, Nebraska that was doing a launch party for whistlepig 26:00 Yeah no idea and neither did his boss and so that's why nobody's get nobody sharing emails is no that's why they're coming out to me with me tomorrow you know because then I throw a fit to say listen I'm not saying that I should get all this allocated whistlepig or I should be the first shot at it I just want to be communicated to because we have customers that walk through that door or text or message me all day long about hey, I see whistle pigs here I'm going to stop out and get some oh sorry we don't have any and then they again some will understand and others flat out call you a liar that oh yeah you did who who got it Brett who got it George who got it you know and they'll sit there and try to pick off names about who gets what and why they got it. 26:45 So I think up front like say like so this is how many Is it like you said the walkers whiskey. I don't even know what she said blended whiskey, and this is how many This is what it's going to take to get on those how allocation was 27:00 Or did they even give you a number to shoot for? Or like, here's the plan, you know, to get to those? 27:06 Or is it just like, spend as much as you can? And we'll get over that later. We'll figure it out. Yeah. That you know what, you just nailed it. It's like, you know, by everything we have to sell, yeah. In the month each month, we're going to have deals and not listen. I'm not bashing the wholesaler, so to speak, you know, I consider him like, my wife can live with her can live without her. I mean, 27:30 we need them as much as they need us. And that's the frustrating part. But so yeah, it's, you know, 27:39 to start, you know, or one of the little story was two years ago, after all the beats that came out and Pappy allocations came out. They came in into November, wanting to know if I would do a buy on 1792 small batch. And I said, well, what's the deal and that was something like buy 20 cases get a free and I don't think they thought I was going to say yes, I said, Well, yeah, that's 28:00 a no brainer. 28:01 Yeah, they had their bosses with them. And all of a sudden he's like, yeah, you know, getting the computer, I think we can get him another three GTS is, you know, for doing this. And so I looked at him and I just said, that's what irritates me. You got extra bottles because I bought this now Come on What will you know, what is the deal here? Why wouldn't that have been distributed according to who buys and who deserves it? A month ago when it got distributed? Why do you have bottles sitting back? You know, they'll tell you Oh, we had people that didn't pick up or, you know, named me one retailer that gets allocated three bottles or something like that, that doesn't pick it up. We're going to do it every time. So you know, it's a little bit frustrating. But yeah, that's to answer your question. There's no general number other than, hey, just buy and we'll make sure you get taken care of so we're getting taken care of is you know, there's never enough to go around. You know, if I get last year, probably mix and match. 29:00 13 to 14 bottles of Pappy Van Winkle between the 10 year all the way up to the 23 year. Well, those are gone before they even hit the store. Because we sell them to the to our best customers. 29:11 We don't play favorites, but I've had people come in the store and just yell at me as to why I don't have the lottery for those. Well, I understand that but at the same time, then how do I explain to one of my regular customers that spends $1,000 a month? Oh, yeah, you're not going to get any because we're going to we're going to raffle these off. So people that don't shop here get them. 29:33 So let's go back to your distribution days for a minute. Okay, what was your What was your last year as a distributor? 2013 14 Okay, so you wouldn't you have you experienced a little bit of the boom you experience some of the rise of the craft, the craft brands. This is something I get told by a lot of craft distillers. Now craft is that you know 29:59 People can, can say it's good, it's not good. But the fact is, is they get distribution in a lot of these markets. 30:08 And then the bottles just sit in their warehouse. The distributors do nothing to try and promote the brands or get them in a store or To my knowledge, even put them in a catalog to say, Hey, this is why we have an inventory. They're just sitting in a warehouse and hoping that and those those distillers are hoping that someone finds out about them. 30:32 What what gets a distributor to get off their ass and try and move product for a supplier? The distiller you know, Fred, I think there's there's two ways about that. Oftentimes, 30:48 I read all your guys's publications and listen and so forth. I learned things from you guys, months before our distributor has a clue. So I will like do a screenshot and say hey here 31:00 A particular product that please look out for me put it on my list. I really want this. And all the way up to the top that respond. Never heard of it. Well, yeah, it's coming. You know, the most recent one was well, or full proof. 31:13 You know, an Elmer t hundred anniversary or the 100 proof that's coming. There's things like that that they don't know about. So to answer your question, a lot of those craft distilleries and craft products, it has to be something that we as retailers have heard about, that we asked about, and then they will, they'll research or so to speak and then oh, yeah, I do carry that by the way. Unless somebody is really putting the pressure on them to get it out into the market. It has to you have to ask about it. Those salesmen have too many other brands and too many other pods if you will, that they have to hit to get it out the marketplace and you're right even as a salesman. I'm going to be honest with you. If it was the end of fiscal whether that was June or December for a certain brand, I was going 32:00 After things that I was going to make a bonus on, I was going after, you know, our biggest suppliers on the on the liquor and the wine side to make sure I hit those numbers because that's what ensured I kept my job. So, so let's stay Let's stay on the distributor side. Yes. One question about that because I heard some lingo and there wasn't familiar with what's a pod? Yeah, what's a pod? A pod is a placement. So if Yellowstone which is in Nebraska and I happen to be a big fan of hits the market, they might have certain amount of pods they have to hit and a pod means they have 15 accounts they need to do a placement of which is basically a three bottle placement. If they get a three bottle placement at our store, that particular sales, we got his pod for that brand. The problem is they come into the store with 22 different brands that need placements or pods, and then it becomes a real estate issue within a store. 32:54 Gotcha. Now we're now we're starting to talk your language. All right. So when we so let's take a look 33:00 Look at like, 33:03 like how the distributors spend money with with on premise and off premise. As you know, it's illegal for them to say, Hey, here's some cash carry this correct, but they do spend money in stores, what? How are they able to how are they able to slip under the law to give retailers and bars, money to carry products? You know, I don't think a lot of that goes on in Nebraska anymore. I'm not going to say that it doesn't because I think there probably are some exceptions and some things that just don't add up. But it was something that wouldn't add up. Give me an example. You don't have to name any names. No, it's a certain store getting four bottles of let's say, Buffalo Trace William Lou Weller 34:00 The antique collection and I look across the street going huh? They do about a 10th of the business we do. And all of a sudden they got these bottles and the same time those bottles showed up Look at this huge Southern Comfort display that showed up well Southern Comfort Zone by my sash rack. So they need to go in there and figure out a way to get that Southern Comfort in there. To me to Southern Comfort number What a way to entice them is with some bottles, or I know it's tapping with with cash or, or goods dealer loaders as they call them. 34:35 That from golf bags all the way to whatever that used to run rampant when I was a salesman I saw that all the time. But to that question, Fred, the 34:47 the how the mom and pop distributors going away and corporate america if you will, the southerners the r&d sees Johnson brothers, that corporate cultures kind of put it into a lot 35:00 That stuff. Again. I'm pretty sure it goes on. I've heard stories and I see things but yeah, that that's kind of how that works. 35:09 Well, you know, you go to certain resort destinations and Dr. Usha will own the entire bar. You know, they'll own entire liquor stores. You go to Vegas and beemo have an entire hotel. You know, so it's like these things are not just happening because the the the bar owners and the hotel owners happen to be big fans of those particular products. I mean, something's happening somewhere. Yeah, there's somewhere Oh, there there absolutely is, you know, it could come down to to free goods or any of that stuff. You know, the conversation as the retailers I had because we are one of the bigger ones in Nebraska from a volume standpoint. 35:56 You know, if you ever thought about trying to give us money or bias 36:00 You know what, take whatever money you were going to give us and knock the bottle costs down so we can make money. 36:06 It's never come to that and we never do that. But yeah, I guarantee you, there's some of that stuff going on. Now my son, my oldest son happens to be at on premise salesman in Omaha. And yeah, there's times where brown Forman or or beam or people will go into a certain bar or a ballpark or college world series, a certain bar down there. I remember Cruz and Ron took over probably the most popular bar in Omaha. I'm assuming they give them all these umbrellas and all this other good stuff. And yeah, they'll do that. So. But if if there's money under the table or things like that, I'm not I can't 100% say that it happens. I'm sure it does. So your son's in the business. That means Thanksgiving and Christmas must be kind of heated sometimes. Yeah, the dumb little kid. Thanks craft beers where it's 36:58 from all of our barrel pics. 36:59 crying out loud. He's the you know, he's, we he's been to Kentucky with us three times. We're going back again in July. And, you know, every time he shows up for the holidays, he wants to bring some pretty beer. 37:13 So there is a there's a good question that came in in the chat here from Mike bliss. And it's kind of talking about the difference in high volume retailers, you know, you're talking to the total wines and liquor barn to the world versus some value, add specialty retailers that are sort of your your mom and pop your corner shops and stuff like that. Where did the where does the line draw in what distributors do in in what they're able to allocate? Or how do they decide, oh, well, this this store does insane amounts of business. You know, we don't even have to sit there and have an argument with them. We're just going to go and sell a bunch of stuff. You know, sure. They've got it. They've got to take care or make happy multiple entities. You know, you've got on premise you've got off premise so yeah, sure bars 38:00 Need a certain allocation as well, you hope that they expose that to more drinkers based off of you know, 20 something pours out of a bottle that's going to go out to a bar customer whereas we're selling it by the bottle 38:14 it's a 38:16 it's my argument with the wholesalers. It's my argument it's my fight to say how does a little bar out in western Nebraska in a town of 300 people get just as many bottles of blood off pack five as I do, I don't understand that. Especially again, even with that portfolio, I support Rebel Yell and all those brands as well. 38:39 And it gets tiring for me because I have to then throw a fit and have a conversation with people as to what's going on. I don't want those people to not get products I understand that they need to build a business. But building a businesses in this this industry bourbon, if you will. You got to spend money as well. It's no different than any 39:00 else did you invest money in to build your business? So I guess I kind of want you to talk about that a bit more. Because you know, you were talking about, you know, how does this bar in the middle of nowhere with 300 people get the same allocation of something. But honestly, like, how does that happen? Like, is there? I mean, you were on that side at one point like is, is the internal 39:22 workings in here to say, all right, well, let's say all four of us work for a distributor, we all cover different patches, we all get 25% of the allotment, and we go decide how 25% we're going to go and do it in our particular market. Like is that is that a typical thing? Like, how does it happen internally, Kenny, don't say that 39:42 happens. That's the other frustrating part. They'll get these allocated items that come into the warehouse, and they'll say, okay, Division Two, you get five bottles, Division Three, and I'll go down the line and then they'll let these guys decide where they go. Well, you can then get up you can say, Well, I have a really good friend that owns 40:00 liquor store, I'm going to make sure he gets a bottle. He doesn't even buy anything from that portfolio. But he does carry Barton vodka as well. And so they'll get those certain things where my fight with them has always been, hey, somebody at the top of your company needs to start looking at these Bourbons it is what makes this this liquor industry tick right now and make sure that you're taking care of people that that one work hard to get it in the right people's hands, you don't want to get it into flipper hands and things like that. And yeah, I take a lot of criticism at our store. Because I asked for ideas when people come in to buy stuff I want to know who they are, I want to get to know them and I want to make sure I'm not going to find it on the secondary market. And you know, as I did yesterday, oddly enough with one of our knob Creek barrel pics that just came in, 40:52 you know, in the in the state of Nebraska, if you will, it's and I know I'm getting a little off off par here off topic, but it's 41:00 illegal to buy or sell alcohol if you don't have a license, or you can't buy it from somebody without a license. So that flipping market or secondary market is is very much against the law in Nebraska. But you know, I want to make sure the people that are buying bourbon and so forth, it's getting into the people's hands that want to enjoy it, share it and develop it. So that's my other fight with the wholesalers to say because there are stores in Omaha that we can all walk into right now and you can pay $199 for a bottle of Elmer t that sitting on the shelf you can pay 199 for a bottle of Blanton's, you can pay 3000 for Pappy and, and I don't understand how those people get an allocation when that's how they put it on their shelves. And the distributors have now said they agree and that they will not get future allocations because of that. We see it all the time here in the local. There's plenty of stores that Yeah, the right now you can go you can find a bottle of one as well or 107 it will have a 42:00 $99 price tag on it. There's a few stores in the city that do it. However, it's not stopping them from getting allocation continual. So I mean, do you mean when you were on that side? I mean, I don't think gouging or price markups were that big I think in 2014 timeframe, but I mean, are you starting to really think that distributors are taking this serious? I think they are. I think they're starting to figure it out. Again, this is all new to them too. This is brand new territory for them, you know, they have to understand that retailers like myself and others. What's most important to us right now is those allocated items and those Bourbons and that diversity and that's that variety and selection. 42:43 You know, when will it came to Nebraska, all I'm gonna say six months ago. 42:48 Maybe it was a little longer than that. But you had to buy everything they owned before you could get a couple bottles of their family estate stuff. And sure enough, we did we bought all the pot still the nose mill the roads. 43:00 yield Bardstown, pure Kentucky, all that stuff. And I've still got it all over our store, still have yet to see any family estate stuff come in. And the Johnson brothers distributor will say, well, we got to take care of, you know, some of our other customers. Well, this is where I will point the finger. Well, those other customers are the ones that buy hundred cases of barefoot wine. And we all know who those customers are. So I don't do that. And I won't buy barefoot wine at 100 cases at a time. So I can sell it at $1 higher than the grocery store. But that's where you're going to find the family estate stuff in Nebraska. 43:35 So let's take a look at the suppliers to distillers. 43:41 You keep bringing up these portfolios. And you're talking about, you know, largely Sazerac. You've mentioned a couple others you just mentioned, will it you know, at what, 43:54 how much blame are you putting on the distillers here in this equation? And are you really thinking 44:00 That they might just be using the distributors as kind of like a front man for the bad guy. 44:07 With the careers of master distiller spanning almost 50 years, as well as Kentucky bourbon Hall of Famer and having over 100 million people taste his products. Steve nalli is a legend of bourbon who for years made Maker's Mark with expertise and precision. His latest project is with Bardstown bourbon company, a state of the art distillery in the heart of the bourbon capital of the world. They're known for the popular fusion series, however, they're adding something new in 2020 with a release named the prisoner. It starts as a nine year old Tennessee bourbon that has been finished in the prisoner wine companies French oak barrels for 18 months. The good news is you don't have to wait till next year to try it. Steve and the team at Bardstown bourbon company have teamed up with rackhouse whiskey club rackhouse whiskey club is a whiskey the Month Club on a mission to uncover the best flavors and stories that craft distilleries across the US have to offer. Their December box features a full size bottle of Bardstown suffusion series and a 200 45:00 milliliter bottle of the prisoner. There's also some cool merchant side. And as always with this membership shipping is free. Get your hands on some early release Bardstown bourbon by signing up at rack house whiskey club.com use code pursuit for $25 off your first box 45:19 how much blame are you putting on the distillers here in this equation? And are you really thinking that they might just be using the distributors as kind of like a front man for the bad guy? 45:30 Um, you know, I don't think so. I honestly, you know, having been out there doing barrel pics now, for the last two and a half years I've kind of learned that. You know, the Steelers are pretty hands off. You know this. The distilleries, they've got the people that their suppliers that go to market. 45:47 I think some of the distilleries would be pretty amused and amazed at what actually goes on in the marketplace. I don't think they have the time. It's like a you know, 45:58 a time or that time to under 46:00 And all that goes on with that. They're probably like, if you're taking 25%, you better earn it. I don't care how you earn it. 46:08 You know, listen, those suppliers put those financial goals to those wholesalers to say, this is what needs to happen. And so then I think the wholesalers do whatever it takes to do it, because they don't always know what they're dealing with and what products they have in their portfolio. 46:24 So does it would a distributor like tele brand, say like Buffalo Trace, for example, because we keep using them because they're so popular, but 46:34 would they tell them or advise them that, hey, you need to raise prices because we need to kind of slow down this demand or what a distillery does that that who decides pricing? I guess, I think that comes from either to, you know, on that particular case that either comes from Buffalo Trace or SAS rack. And I can speak to that that's most definitely the distilleries they dictate SRP which dictates the wholesale price 47:00 Mt. 47:01 Mike if I'm wrong with this, correct me, but the the wholesaler price is usually half of what the SRP is, and then they mark it up, you know, 15 20% to the retailer and then you guys mark it up whatever is left in the margin about right. I would say that's pretty close. from what I gather, I don't think there's as much margin on that first leg that you mentioned from the to the wholesaler what the wholesaler buys it at, so to speak. 47:34 You know, so that they are that's a little tricky, if you will. 47:40 Again, and maybe it's because I'm biased from a retailer standpoint about how much we mark stuff up. But you know, I just saw somebody got a barrel of Blanton's here in Nebraska, ours isn't going to be here for another six weeks and I saw what they posted their bottle price and I'm just like, holy crap, did plans go up again? Or am I just stupid selling it for 55 48:00 dollars a bottle still, you know, also, but our customers, you know, that's what we want to do so, but yeah, to your to your point. I think that's really strong at the distillery and that's why I've always respected Sazerac and Buffalo Trace. They're pretty adamant about trying to catch those people that are abusing that retail markup in their retail stores. Right now, you're not just saying that so you get a better allocation of Pappy 48:31 damn right. I am. 48:34 Son and he's just got a sweet talk his son? Yeah. 48:38 I guess the devil's advocate to like pay to play what do you what would you say to like, you know, the mom and pop stores have been in business forever. And they can't compete on the pay to play just because they're in a smaller town or in a smaller market, but they still have customers they want to take care of and get, you know, some allocation and they've been getting them for years. And they were kind of you know, there before the 49:00 Before everything kind of happened, well, that that's just my counter argument to this. No, I agree. You know, because I've often thought and role played Hey, what if I went out on my complete own and opened up my own little mom and pop store? You know, I know at that point what I've done with the store we have now will Linda No. allocations are what I deserve to this new place. It's just one bottle at a time. That's what we did at our store. And I think that's what any mom and pop has the ability to do. You know, pick and choose your battles if you can't pick and choose every supplier that's out there. Go after if it says rack and Buffalo Trace will then really support those brands. And then yeah, you're going to get bottles at that point. You know, I think the other misconception is, there's more bottles that come into each market than we realize when you realize how many stores are going those bottles are going out too. So there's there's product available to then develop a customer base and develop 50:00 A relationship with some key customers. So I got a kind of a doozy of a question here. You mentioned a little bit a while ago talking about there might be like this favorite scheme that somebody that works a distributor, they have a certain store that they'll go and hook somebody up because they carry a well, whatever it is, and they can potentially slide into their store. How much do you think of allocated items go to things like I don't know, if you consider this something like insider trading, where say all of us here we get 25% of a pie. I know that I really want the new Booker's, whatever it's going to come out this year, but we'll just whatever it's going to be. And what I'm gonna do is I'm going to go to a store that I like, I'm going to say, Hey, I'm going to get you this bottle but this bottles mine. 50:50 You mean the the salesman or their manager coming in saying, hey, you're going to get this ball allocated to you, but you're going to sell it to me? Exactly. 51:00 happens all the time. See, that's the that's the crazy thing. It's like, people always talk about access and trying to make a free access to everything. And when you talk about even the I've seen it before with my own eyes, it happened with a with a victors bottle. I think it was a 20 or 25 year bourbon. And I know the store that ran through, and it was just kind of like, Oh, it was a favorite from distributor. And they just ran it to the store for somebody to go there and pick it up. Sir. They just had it laying around just for that. I mean it it kind of blows my mind that that there's this sort of like insider game that you can do, because you have access to all this stuff. And yeah, what how how fair is it that 51:47 you know, bourbon has, you know, a, you know, in order to get your allocation of a bourbon. How in the world is it fair to be 52:00 expected to carry a vodka or a low level gin? Or an unattractive tequila? It seems to me like that. That's, that's the most egregious thing of all happening right now is you're being forced to carry shit, you know, to get the good stuff. 52:19 Fred when you walk into our store, and you take your first step in and right to your left, you've got about 90 cases of vodka all into the price of 999 for a half gallon, or a 175. From Fleischmanns departments and school and platinum in summit, well Smirnoff a little higher Pinnacle, you name it, and that's why they're there. And yes, we sell a lot of it, don't get me wrong, but those are brands are there for a reason because there's other brands we could choose pop off and others, but hey, those are all part of a lot of those who are part of the soundtrack portfolio 52:58 to you 53:00 you're you're you're front loading your store, because you feel like it gives you a better chance for that allocation. Absolutely. 53:09 I agree it's horseshit. 53:11 To say that what if what if we all just kind of work together because this could be the way to end vodka if you think about it. 53:19 The only reason why stores are carrying vodka then let's just Yeah, the wagons and you know find a way to put bourbon there and when your vodka revolt 53:30 the biker rebellion, Fred 53:33 I this just 53:36 it just feels scammy to me it's always felt like 53:43 you know, very 1930s you know a mafioso kind of like we were saying, but how else are they supposed to dictate who gets what what is a better system? Better? I mean, if you think about it, why not just a free market system like okay, 54:00 This is what I want. Like, if people aren't buying x y&z like you shouldn't be has to be like forced to be able to carry those like that should. The thing is is nothing triple all the way back to the distiller where like they have to rethink their strategy or they have to rethink their go to market on a particular product because it's just sitting on the shelves. And if it's if you get to the point where it's not moving, then it comes all the way back to the producer. It's hard, it's tough, because in those categories, they're all commodities. They're, you know, they're, they're, 54:32 you know, base price like, and so they have to buy shelf space to compete to kind of get their product out there. It happens in cereal, it happens in groceries and in everything, you know, you buy shelf space to kind of get your product that it's this is how it is. That is true. When you walk into Barnes and Noble. Those books right there. Those are all purchased that space was purchased by the publisher. That's true. Yeah, and you know, and I I've heard stories, you know, with some of the chain accounts that 55:00 You know, hey, you want this in cap, it's $800 cash, you want this in cap, it's $400 cash, if you want, any of the back end caps is $200 cash. Again, that's never happened to me directly as a salesperson. 55:13 I will tell you that, you know, and these people are no longer there. When I was a salesperson. I often got asked when I would go in and pitch a deal, well, what's in it for me? And that's when I would walk away, and nothing against who I used to work for. But, you know, I had the dubious title of the lowest market share and what was the biggest grocery account in Nebraska? Every CL sales meeting, I had to hear about how I did that or had the lowest market share but I wasn't going to play that game of somebody else more company wanted to do that great Go for it. But you know, I was going to do it the right way. 55:47 But because I was new and scared, but I you know, again, I don't know the other answer to what you're saying. Fred is if you know how do you distribute it? They came to me and told me that 56:00 The liquor commission is standard rasca said those allocated items need to go to the people that support that portfolio. So will we I guess you have to define the portfolio. Does that include just the bourbon portfolio? It's as or accurate, does that include everything in it, if you will? I do know last year I'm sorry, in the end of 2017. 56:22 You had to buy eight cases of Southern Comfort to get a case of Blanton's. 56:27 Wow. And that's where I flipped out. And I said wait a second, you know, so, you know, it's it's, it's interesting, and it's odd. Again, I don't know that you can blame them again. I think this is all new to the wholesalers to this this crazy game we're in with with bourbon right now. And 56:48 you know, it's um, it's tough, but somebody at those disturbed those distillery somebody at those wholesalers needs to be burning the midnight oil and they're not doing that to figure out how 57:00 this all works and where these products are going and how they're being sold. Because the guy from SAS rack right to my face and the guy from Brown Forman that was in the store a couple weeks ago, flat out said they will not support these retailers that are gouging the public. So I'm hoping that assignment, you know, they're forcing the wholesalers hands to not necessarily just give whoever you know, is on the buddy list allocated items because then like like, we've just talked about how do you deal with these mom and pop stores that have been in business for 20 years, 30 years in Nebraska, that have stumbled onto the bourbon world as well you know, how do you not take care of them? 57:43 You know, it's that you bring up a good point to it should be noted that it is illegal. Federal code, you know, does not allow a distiller or supplier to dictate where, where their bottles go. So like 58:00 The best they can do is tell these distributors like we don't want this we don't want that they can't outright say don't go to Bob store because he's price gouging. But they can say something like, Hey, we don't want to see price gouging, you know, but there there there is some, there is some very particular laws that that the distiller must follow the distiller to the wholesaler. Yeah, yeah. So the distiller to the wholesaler like what they can say to dictate where things go. It's very, you know, if there's a paper trail there, you know, they always get caught, you see people get, you know, million dollar fines every other year from these, you know, from these larger wholesale companies, because they get entangled in into these like, messes and, and that the, the federal government does, like track wholesalers quite a bit closer, you know, then I think people realize, Oh, yeah, absolutely. They do it. 59:00 I completely agree with that. And I've heard it firsthand and actually seen it firsthand. 59:05 You know, an odd story when I right before I left to take this job at this liquor store, and then, you know, through the luck of success become an owner, 59:17 my boss at this particular wholesaler, you know, we got, you know, we started seeing things in our computer like, Oh, I didn't sell this account this many cases, what's going on here? I didn't think much of it just thought it was a computer glitch. And so we're all in a sales meeting. And we get asked to go down to this boardroom and there's a State Patrol. And it turns out that our, our boss and our division was taking things and billing them to accounts and and selling it out of his trunk. Oh, nice. Let me tell you what I that you want to talk about that, that moment where you start shaking, 59:56 you know, and then it becomes like 1:00:00 accounts that Wait a second, you know, Mr. salesman in Lincoln, Nebraska, how did you not know that this guy hasn't bought Jagermeister in five years? You know, where do you think he's been buying it from? And so it became quite interesting. And I'm thinking, you know, we're the ones that turned this guy in because we started seeing things on our computer. So yeah, I'm assuming there's plenty of ways to get in and around these rules for wholesalers. And again, Canada, you're one of the original points there is zero transparency. I can't ask the wholesaler Can you tell me how much Buffalo Trace antique came into the state? And when I can ask them how much birthday bourbon came into the state and what accounts Got it? All I know is I got one bottle. Yeah. So it is one good thing about the controlled states is that you can you know, because it's all tax related and public record. You can see exactly where all those bottles went in Pennsylvania, there's mysteriously five bottles that 1:01:00 disappear every year when they get their allocation to the county when they all go to state senators. Yeah. 1:01:08 So we've we've now established the fact that there is no map and it's just all kind of like just a crazy process. There's no process there's there's literally there's nothing I think we've established that at this point. But here's here's the funny thing that I always find. I mean, it doesn't matter you you ask any store owner in when it comes to fall release season and I'm sure that Mike you hear the same exact thing is and you're going to say it every single year to his allocations are down this year. It's I mean, literally, I've heard that same exact line for the past five years in a row how our allocations always down every single year. You know, I don't know that. I'm going to tell you I was very happy with my Pappy allocation this year, this past year in 2018. What was extremely upset about my Buffalo Trace antique collection, so I don't know if they decided to, to cut me on one and give me more. The other thing 1:02:00 That would keep me quiet and keep me happy if you will. 1:02:04 But yeah, I can tell you I got one bottle of birthday bourbon this year I've always gotten to and not that that's a lot, especially when I hear and see other markets and what they get. 1:02:14 And so I flat out asked the the brown Forman guy two weeks ago when he was in the store, you know, hey, I'd be glad to do a jack daniels barrel. Again, I'd be happy to do a Woodford Reserve and an old forester barrel at the store because I know we can sell him. Is that going to get me any more birthday bourbon, he flat out looked at me said no, because the state of Nebraska is only getting so much. You know, you know, then at that point, we have to make a decision, but at least he was honest. And he was he seemed to be pretty clear about you know, he doesn't really like I think Fred said he doesn't control where those bottles go once they come into the state of Nebraska, as far as what account gets them. Yep, absolutely. So to kind of wrap this up, you know, and this has been a fantastic conversation and you know, Mike, I really love the passion that you have here. You can tell that you 1:03:00 You've got a lot of a lot to talk about in this but you know, since you've gone from, I don't know one dark side to the other maybe you're seeing the light I don't know which which is the better end here. But now that you're on the other end how's your view changed to be now dealing with the people that you once worth of a salesperson 1:03:21 you know, somebody sent me a I don't know what you call them a GIF or whatever those things are 1:03:27 a Forrest Gump running You know, when in a movie when he takes off down the lane and it's out on the road and takes off. And I literally said, that's me at the end of the month when I see the sales people come in. 1:03:39 They all got some deal, that's the best that's ever been and, you know, and and but again, my perception is I've learned how to control it and learn how to understand it. And you know, with all this innovation from all these different flavors, you know, 1:03:55 that there's only so much real estate in a store and even the big stores, you know, 1:04:00 There's only so much they can put down and carry on their shelves before they run out of room. And so something has to give. So I just kind of look at basically what's the value for that particular product that comes in into one of Fred's points earlier, I kind of look for those craft distilleries. I'm just looking for a variety of whiskey that I think tastes good. I don't want to sell something to you or anybody else that you're going to take home and whether you pay $30 or $100, and be like, Oh my gosh, I've had Buffalo Trace. And this is horrible compared to that. 1:04:35 It's a shame that you have to do your own research as a store owner, because these craft distilleries are paying these distributors to push their brands for them. And that you know, they're not you as a store owner going out of your way to get those people involved in a chance on the dance. 1:04:51 And it just sucks because like, what is the point of a distributor for a brand that's, you know, a craft brand because it's just a pastor and it doesn't 1:05:00 Seemed like they're doing a service for them. And also, would you like to iterate what they're usually costing on top of of the cost? What do you mean? Well, Ryan, we mean we go we know what how many points that distributors take on top of it. You want to kind of talk about that? Yeah. And it's, you know, you're paying, you know, for us to do distribution here, we're paying 25% margin, not 25% markup, so it's 25% margin on the fob costs that we're sending to them. And then on top of that, the retailer's taking 25% margin. On top of that, we go through all this hard work to go pick the whiskies decide throne, go through all the risks, the legal stuff, all the taxes, all this stuff, and the end user is getting the most margin, and the distributors are two versus the end. So as a craft brand, you know, we're like, well, what's the point? You know, so, what is the point? 1:05:54 That's why I just right. 1:05:57 But you know what, that's th

Welcome to Bourbon Heritage Month where it’s full of awesome festivals like Bourbon and Beyond. We dive into the show talking about Pernod's intent to acquire Castle Brands which Jefferson’s is a major portfolio player and if $223 million was a good deal. We comment on PBR's newest whiskey which is aged for a grand total of 5 seconds. Next is looking at the artificial tongue and what this could mean to the future of the industry. We wrap it up examining EU tariffs and it’s impact 1 year later on the whiskey market. Show Partners: The University of Louisville now has an online Distilled Spirits Business Certificate that focuses on the business side of the spirits industry. Learn more at uofl.me/pursuespirits. Barrell Craft Spirits has a national single barrel program. Ask your local retailer or bourbon club about selecting your own private barrel. Find out more at BarrellBourbon.com. The 2019 Kentucky’s Edge Bourbon Conference & Festival pairs all things Kentucky with bourbon. It takes place October 4th & 5th at venues throughout Covington and Newport, Kentucky. Find out more at KentuckysEdge.com. Central Kentucky Tours offers public and private bourbon tours for groups from 2 to 55. Learn more at CentralKentuckyTours.com. Receive $25 off your first order at RackHouse Whiskey Club with code "Pursuit". Visit RackhouseWhiskeyClub.com. Show Notes: This week’s Above the Char with Fred Minnick takes a look back at the Legend Series. Let's discuss Bourbon and Beyond. Pernod buys Castle Brands for $223 million. https://www.businesswire.com/news/home/20190828005771/en/Pernod-Ricard-Acquire-Castle-Brands-223-Million Do you think more smaller brands are going to get bought out? Is Pernod trying to get back to bourbon? Was this a good buy for Pernod? What do you think about PBR making whiskey? https://www.jsonline.com/story/entertainment/beer/2019/08/22/pabst-blue-ribbon-now-making-whiskey-collaboration-new-holland/2086883001/ Have you all seen Screwball Peanut Butter Whiskey? What are your thoughts on the artificial tongue? https://www.geek.com/tech/artificial-tongue-can-taste-subtle-differences-in-whiskey-1798999/ More secondary markets are gone. What are your thoughts? Who do you think is behind the shut downs? Tariffs continue to hammer down on bourbon. https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-trade-whiskey/us-whiskey-exporters-struggle-after-year-of-eu-tariffs-idUSKCN1V80DN What do you think is next for tariffs? What impact do tariffs have on the bourbon industry? Thanks to Nick from breakingbourbon.com, Brian from sippncorn.com, and Blake from bourbonr.com for joining. 0:00 I love bourbon, but I'm not ready to restart my career in be a distiller. I have a bachelor's degree and I want to continue to use those skills in the whiskey industry. So check this out. The University of Louisville now has an online distilled spirits business certificate that focuses on the business side of the spirits industry like finance, marketing and operations. This is perfect for anyone looking for more professional development. And if you ever want to get your MBA, their certificate credits transfer into Ul's new online MBA program. Learn more about this online program at business.louisville.ecu slash online spirits 0:38 so I'm just waiting for the movie where artificial tongues go rogue and one of them decides is going to go and replace everybody's whiskey with like rapid each whiskey because it's got the perfect profile and there's just insanity and chaos. You know 1:08 This is Episode 217 of bourbon pursuit. I'm one of your host Kenny. And as usual, a little bit of news to go through. So larceny from heaven Hill has launched a new app. It's an augmented reality app called unlock the Rick house. The app was inspired by the history of john II Fitzgerald. He was a treasury agent back in the late 1800s and early 1900s, and was one of the only people that was legally allowed to carry the keys to the barrel storage Rick houses with a discerning palate for fine bourbon john Fitzgerald often uses Rick house keys to gain access to some of the finest bourbon barrels for himself. And those barrels from which he chose to help himself were often referred to as the Fitzgerald barrels around the distillery. The infamous active larceny led to the larceny brand and has now inspired the newest augmented reality app. So Once downloaded, you can explore the Rick houses by tapping on each one to search for the prize winning 2:00 Fitzgerald barrel, and from September 1 through December 31. Each tap of the Rick house gains one entry into the grand prize of $10,000. Daily prizes will also be awarded and include everything from a mini barrel shot glass and larceny magnets all the way up until a larceny guitar or an LED sign. So you can get unlock the Rick house available now on the Apple Store and Google Play. On Tuesday this week, I had the pleasure of joining four roses master distiller Brett Elliot, to a special media preview of the 2019 limited edition small batch, were able to ask him anything in taste through all the individual lots that comprised of this batch. And here's some of the details. The 2019 limited edition small batch will have a breakdown of four different bourbon runs. There is an 11 year old ESV that accounts for 26 27% of the blend. A 15 year old GSB at 40% of them blend a 15 year old ESK with 25% and a 2:59 21 year old BSB at 8% on the blind, and we got to go through each one of these and kind of rate them all and kind of figure out how they all lead into creating their own blend and the 21 year OBSV had the best knows it was super okie but the finish lacks some depth. And there was I know there's a lot of OESK lovers out there, but this one had a pretty strong bite to it honestly wasn't my favorite. However, the 15 year OESV was the real star of the show. This had depth and complexity and just kept going at all the right components into it. But come to find out. This is the same version of OESV that was sold at the gift shop this past year for Father's Day. So there's a few lucky people out there sitting on some really good bourbon right now. And the final proof of this will be 112.6 with around 13,440 bottles to be released in the US in around 3002 the rest of the world with an MSRP of $139 and 99 cents. 4:00 During this time with Brent, we also discussed the barrels and if we would ever see a single barrel limited edition ever again. Well, the unfortunate news is that he said it's likely to never happen again. With the explosive growth of bourbon, it's almost impossible to find a run of barrels that were all distilled at one time that would be able to satisfy this type of demand. Instead, these runs will be saved for future small batches for years to come. He said they have plenty of high AH stock. So this is great to hear for enthusiasts like us. And hope you're out there enjoying these whiskey quickies that we're releasing. As we get into the fall we're going to be bringing new reviews of all the newest releases including next week's as we review the new four roses small batch Limited Edition. All right now on to the podcast. On this Roundtable. We talk about bourbon festival season as we just wrapped up one, but we're heading into bourbon and beyond right around the corner. And if you haven't yet, go get your tickets. We'd love to see you there. Drink some good bourbon and listen to some good tunes. But after that, we dive into 5:00 To the acquisition business was the 230 $3 million deal for Pernod Ricard to acquire castle brands which Jeffers is a part of. Was that a good deal? Well, we had a lot of folks that were commenting in our chat section and talking about the EPA or the earnings before interest, taxes, depreciation and amortization. It's a measure of a company's operating performance. One comment we received was from Craig Kessler, he's a Chief Investment Officer as well as an executive bourbon Stewart. So he talked about per node selling wild turkey at 12 times its EPA, while brown Forman was selling at 10 x. So per node got an above market value during the time of the value of other competitors out there in the market. As for promotes re entry to the market, castle was trading at a price sales ratio of one x and per node paid about to exit the company. So brown Forman is currently trading at eight x. So per node is paying 75% less than brown Forman on a price per sales basis. So from this production 6:00 It looks like four nodes sold above market for wild turkey and bought castle below. So we'll see about more of that into the podcast that after that we also dive into PBR is new whiskey, the artificial tongue and if you tariff data that's now been published is still going to continue to wreak havoc on new exports. All right, now let's get on to it. Let's hear a word from Joe over a barrel bourbon, and then you've got Fred Minnick with above the char. I'm Joe Beatrice, founder of barrell craft spirits. I know I talk a lot about blending here. But we also have a national single barrel program asked you a local retailer or bourbon club about selecting your own private barrel. 6:41 I'm Fred Minnick, and this is above the char. In 2013. I started a series at the Kentucky Derby Museum called the legend series. It was a great opportunity for me to sit down with the legends of the industry and ask them questions about their careers and taste their whiskeys. I've talked to great people. 7:00 Julian Van Winkle, Edwin Foote, Harlan Wheatley, Chris Morris, Bill Samuels, Jimmy Russell, Jimmy Rutledge, and many, many, many more. It's been one of the most important events of my career. And now as I go into building the eighth season of The Legend series for the Kentucky Derby Museum, I just look back on it, and all. It's also where I made my first connection with the fellas here at bourbon pursuit. You may have heard this story where Ryan showed up and forgot to turn on the microphone. We still razz him about that. But it really was a great, great moment. I think, not just for me or the Kentucky Derby Museum. But for all of bourbon. The Legends Series was really one of the first high level high education events that allowed people to get really connected to a master distiller or a CEO and learn about what makes them 8:00 Tick. And I'm very glad to see that today we know everybody's mash bill. We know people's business procedures. And you have companies like heaven Hill who are creating diagrams for social media about airflow in a warehouse. So much has changed in eight years and the people who are most to be credited with this, are you, you the consumer have more power today than ever before. And let me tell you, the whiskey distillers pay attention a lot more to what you think, than they do. The USA Today or the New York Times, you are the most powerful person in the all the equation of American whiskey. They follow what you say on social media. They follow what you listen to what you read, and they want to know your opinion, constantly. So join me in the further pursuit of knowledge and let's 9:00 asked people to open up and tell us more about their distilleries. Some people may think it's unfathomable to know what's going behind the scenes when they're making a price increase, or what they're thinking when they're changing their barrel entry proof. But eight years ago, heaven Hill didn't disclose their mash bills. Now, they freely tell you every single grain that goes into their whiskies, so things can change. And that's this week's above the char. Hey, make sure you're following me on Twitter and Instagram. So you can come to next year's Kentucky Derby Legends Series. You can find me at Fred Minnick again at Fred Minnick. Cheers. 9:45 Welcome, everybody. This is the 36 recording of the bourbon Community Roundtable. This is where we talk about what's happening in bourbon bourbon culture bourbon news. We've got a lot of topics to cover, but you know, this is also the beginning and how we're kicking off 10:00 bourbon heritage month so everybody welcome to bourbon heritage month it's kind of like our Super Bowl if we will right we're finally here doing that. But you know not only this bourbon Heritage Month starting to kick off but one of the biggest things is this is also turning into festival season. You know we just wrapped up bourbon on the banks. There's one called Kentucky's edge that'll be coming up and first week October however, Fred Super Bowl here is here and in two weeks so Fred you getting getting mighty pumped for bourbon and beyond? Yeah, bourbon and beyond is right around the corner. I've got two other festivals right before that one but bourbon and beyond is my baby. I work on a year round. We've been working so hard on it, obviously we got the Foo Fighters ZZ Top. 10:41 Alison Krauss, Robert Plant, Zac Brown band we got all these incredible bands but we also have 10:47 you know, grand Melia from top chef and we have a lot of lot of cool panels here. So you all are on the panels. Nick Jordan's there on behalf of breaking bourbon. But I'm very proud of 11:00 The curation of the panels this year, and it's just an incredible, incredible lineup of of education and cocktail. Yeah, I mean, do you want to kind of give people a little bit of a teaser on what some of these panels are so they can go out and yeah, so well one year of moderating Kenny is like what is a master distiller and that's something that we in our community we talked about all the time like what is a master distiller? I mean right now technically Brian who's just a lawyer could be a master distiller without even going any kind of like training for it. We're I'm moderating a panel about the history of slavery and American whiskey. This is the very first time that anybody in our industry has approached this and I want people to realize that you know, this is something that 11:50 you know, it we, we kind of like avoided a lot but you have people like fun Weaver 11:58 and you know, who's bringing 12:00 to the forefront and making sure people want to talk you know, make sure people talk about it because it is something important that is a part of the American whiskey heritage. And I don't think we should just like gloss over it with and so that that's, that's a big seminar we've also got one called bourbon disruptors. I'm excited about Brian's panel that he's doing. It's called whiskey dark past, you know, there's been a lot of murders, there's been a lot of bootlegging. All kinds of shenanigans have been associated with with American whiskey. And, and so you have some some deep ones. And then we have some like real basic like high about how to make a high ball and how to make a man hat and an old fashion. We have a lot of stuff like that as well. So licenses, as well as the hardcore ones. Yeah, and I think at least all of us, we're super excited to actually be there be a part of it beyond the panels. And, you know, while we're doing that, let's go ahead and introduce all of our guests that are here or sorry, our typical roundtable member 13:00 Is that are here today. So let's start off with somebody who might not be able to be here for that much longer because he's getting ready to start batten down the hatches as as the hurricane starts making his way so Blake from Florida checking in How are you, buddy? Doing well, How are y'all? 13:18 We're trying to sneak sneak in a little bit. Yeah, it's been quite the week we you know, I'm kind of a little bit of a procrastinator on the on the storm side, but this one looks like we could get a little bit so yeah, no school for the next two days at least. 13:36 Well, good deal. Well, make sure you you stay safe out there. You know, we're all we're all making sure that you know, everything is everything's good for you, as well as all the other flirty and bourbon residents that are down there. So hopefully everybody is staying safe and heat and all the warnings of evacuating if you actually need to evacuate. That is true. Yeah, you know, but the streak continues. I just kind of throw that out there. The streak continues. 14:00 Introduction. 14:01 Absolutely this qualifies. It sure does. Yep. Yep. So Blake, if you could go back 10 to family please do please go for it, man. Thanks for thanks for chiming in here. 14:12 Yeah, I'm good for a few minutes. arena question Where were we? Not yet we're just still we just started going through the the table just going around the horn so well. 14:23 Yeah. Well, let's take a break. So Brian, you go ahead and take next. Yeah, thanks, Fred. And again, this is Brian with sip and corn. You can find me on Twitter and Facebook sipping corn Instagram to sip and corn and online at bourbon justice calm and sip and corn calm and just to echo Fred's comments. 14:44 Probably no one is is is as excited as he is. But I'm I might be second place got rained out last year for my bourbon workshop. So I'm really excited about doing it this this year. And Fred Thanks for including me. Yeah. 14:58 And Nick, let's go ahead break 15:00 bourbon. Let's hear it. All right, thanks, Kenny. I've Nick from breaking bourbon breaking bourbon com. Check us out on social media at breaking bourbon. And yeah, unfortunately, I will not be able to make bourbon and beyond this year, but Jordan will be there. I will say I am pretty disappointed. It was a pretty fantastic festival last year even with the day the rain out the second day. And you know, I think anybody who's gonna be making it out there probably won't be disappointed. So I'm sure Fred you're probably going nuts now still getting ready for this thing but yeah, it's a pretty fantastic bourbon festival seems to seems like it's only getting better year after year. Wow. Thanks, guys. I gotta tell you, you know, it means a lot to me hearing you all say that because, you know, getting rained out. It was like it was like a gut punch. And it was just so it was really devastating because we had to cancel the other festival which is the Hard Rock Festival louder than life the next weekend. So all three days were canceled. 16:00 So we're really hoping and praying that we don't we have great weather and we're at a weird a better location that can handle the rain so like it's at the fairgrounds it's like right across from the actual Expo Center building and it's like that flat plane and it's a much more it's not as beautiful as champions park with all the trees but it's something that you know is if if this thing floods the whole city's underwater 16:32 there's gonna be a new meters thick that's going to be on the side of the bridges the show the the great flooded 20 2019 if that's what it is. Knock on wood. Yeah, let's we're not gonna have that it's gonna be remember the first year it was hotter than hell out. The second year was just torrential downpour. Third year it's got to be just clear skies. It's what it has to get it perfect. Yep. Alright, so let's jump into it. So the first topic of conversation is kind of a big one. You know, we've had days all our 17:00 on the show before good friend of the show from Jeffersons, and it was announced last week that Pernod Ricard is going to acquire castle brands which Jefferson's a part of that portfolio for 223 million. So it's good to see that porno is still still on the hot streak of buying a lot of stuff. You know, I was just looking at Castle brands. His website, of course, like Jefferson's is the one that kind of screams out to a lot of us. But they've got they've got an Irish cream and an Irish vodka. They've got Gosling's rum, they've got Aaron whiskey, which I had never really come around before. But again, it's a it's a bigger portfolio but it's it's pretty good to see this sort of thing you know, we've been not really not accustomed to seeing a lot of these. These brands start getting acquired. Now porno is actually kind of on a buying streak. It seems a lot recently. 17:51 You all kind of see. This is a trend that's going to continue to happen like do you think these more smaller brands are going to continue to keep getting 18:00 swallowed up by a lot of these big ones. 18:03 One thing that I noticed about this and I know, I know what they're paying for, obviously 223 million sounds like a lot of money. But for these larger companies, it's really, to me that's a that's a low amount for a brand like Jefferson's, which really is a workhorse. I mean, that that's a good selling brand that, you know, that alone could have probably sold, you know, you know, five years ago when you had high West sell for 170 $5 million. You know, Jefferson's was 10 times the brand of high YS at that point. So I think and I know what I know what rabbit holes sold, but I can't really say and I felt like that was a low amount as well. And so I feel like they're getting these these these brands that might be in debt and they may not have as much like 18:56 you know, may not they I don't know what 19:00 How porno is doing this, but that's not a lot of money for for castle brands. I just don't I just don't think there was anyone else looking to buy them. And so, right now you have the big companies and I don't know if they're out there looking to buy up, you know, brands unless it's like white cloth at the moment. You know, the like laws the hot one. So I guess that you know I come from the I always say that where I come from the tech side and so seeing things in the, you know, a couple hundred million dollars of acquisitions aren't, you know, it doesn't really I don't really bat an eye at it anymore. So you said that 223 millions just really not a lot. 19:37 And you think that it also could be 19:41 are there really only like a just a tiny handful of big players in this game that actually have the capital to acquire and if they already have something that's in their portfolio, do they need to continue to keep acquiring? Yeah, let's look at the brands that the big. The big portfolio is proud for 20:00 pronounce Ricard Diaz. Do you throw Proxima in there? BM Suntory obviously 20:07 Karen which has four roses would you know throw them in there and you know there might be a couple others that could really move the needle but you have to look at like what are the who has what it says rack Africa says RX a big player obviously. 20:27 And in 2009 porno basically got out of the American whiskey game when they when they spun off 20:35 you know Barton and you know, wild turkey and so you had like this incredible you know, they got rid of these these great brands and 20:47 and, and now they're trying to get back into the game after it was too late and pornos got a great Irish Whiskey portfolio. So Irish Whiskey is the only you know, whiskey that's really hotter than bourbon and 21:01 It makes sense for them to to try and get some jargon juggernauts but you know they've got smooth Ambler rabbit hole now and Jefferson I think they got rabbit hole really because of the facilities and rabbit holes facilities have incredible potential for expansion they fit right into the like the tourism model and Jefferson's is a hot hot brand smooth Ambler two is got you know they're they've penetrated a lot of really good markets so they made some interesting moves and I think they did them at you know whoever negotiated their deals I think probably did a very good job for them. Yeah, you know Nick or Brian Do you kind of see this as is Fred said it is this PR know kind of like crawling back into the market a little bit. You know if you know if you got rid of wild turkey at the wrong time because you thought it was a you know, basically a bad stock and you sold when the you sold out when is low and you know you bought it when is high like it they tried to like flip the script for themselves here. Well 22:00 I think they they definitely trying to do that. But they're they're filling their roster with D league players instead of what they lost. And I think their problem is going to be capacity. I mean, how can they increase production of any of those without huge distilleries to be able to turn this out? I see that is their issue. I mean, they they can get some from rabbit hole and they can get some from smooth Ambler. But that's a ways off. 22:28 Jefferson's is still just bottling in Crestwood. Right? I mean, they don't have a whole lot of capacity of their own. They're still sourcing. So where's it going to come from? So I see it is problematic there, they're buying the league players, and they can't, they're not going to be able to increase production. And I think that to kind of piggyback on the sourcing, and that's, you know, probably the comments that were, at least that I saw, you know, here in there, with, of course, the focus then Jefferson's in the in the bourbon world. 23:00 With respect to this acquisition, you know that's the question thing about high West with Ambler there, they've got distilleries, they've got the that kind of capability, you know with Jefferson's for example, it really is the brand that's bought the distribution you know, the labels that that kind of thing. So kind of to Brian's point it's that you know, it's that want to get back in the game want to get in in the game. I think there's still a lot of growth potential in general, but it's what is that you know, what are you going to do with that so now they've got two brands now they've got a pull out from you know, pull out from behind them probably invest quite a bit more Jefferson's to like they go from a company that didn't necessarily didn't necessarily have the ability to walk into a company like brown Forman and and strike a deal for 5000 barrels of stock. I'm not saying that's going to happen now if you're in our carbon now printer card. I mean, trees owners got muscle like NASA castle brand was is like 24:00 You know, that was like, 24:02 you know, a triple A baseball team, you know, in comparison to our car, who would be the Boston Red Sox or the Yankees, you know? So the buying power that they have to be on the source market. I mean, it just went up. And because they can, they can strike deals that he could never dream of before when they start sourcing from wild turkey that or MGP, which, you know, they they own the facilities after, after Seager. I'm sad to shutter all their stuff. 24:35 They got the facility in Lawrenceburg, Indiana, and DIZO. got, you know, Crown Royal and they're like, you know, who got the better end of the deal on that because they can never make Pernod Ricard can never make that Lawrenceburg, Indiana distillery work, and they sold it to LDI. And that, you know, I became kind of like the source capital but so that would be ironic if they end up sourcing from wild turkey. 25:00 GP. 25:02 And I guess another question that kind of throw at you all about this is do we see, this is going to be a lot tougher game going into this, you know, we had Trey on the on the podcast before I last year and we talked to him he said like, Is it getting harder now with sourcing, like our people kind of trend in your territory or you are in had all these relationships for and now you've got people that are on your turf barrel prices are going up. How can you maintain, you know, with not actually having a distillery that can pump significant volume? You know, is this was this a good buy for per node like it? It's That's a tough question. I think. I think Brian kind of alluded to that and I wouldn't say that they're, you know, deep play or anything like that. I I still am a fan of Jeffersons. I still like the whiskey they put out. However, in regards of an operation, it might have been a kind of a weird acquisition in my opinion. Anybody have any thoughts of like, is 26:00 Is ditches they don't actually do a lot of distilling or heavy distilling, like Was it a good acquisition? Or is it just something that you know as Nick said to it, just maybe a brand recognition thing that you have to understand like this business is driven by brands like we look at things from where the liquid liquid comes from, but this business is really driven by like a name and they're like it or not, whether you if you if you follow it or not, the Jeffersons ocean is one of the one of the best like marketing ploys of of the last 1015 years and American whiskey. Now I remember asking, I remember asking Trey for to see a man manifest that was barrels at that it was going to punch me but you know, you've got you have some people who disbelieve in that it's the ocean barrel concept, but he does put them out there and it's been one of the best like my 27:00 And the conversations that are marketing boys, I've turned into conversations. 27:05 At least in my world, everyone's like is a real? Is it real? Is it you know, so it's it's one of those things that it's probably just just on that alone. And the fact that Jeffersons is, is everywhere. 27:19 I think it was a great, great acquisition for PR now. So there's another comment here from Dan wall ski, you know, he sees Jefferson's brand is probably worth the investment. However, he wouldn't be surprised to see it now eventually start getting separated from Kentucky artisan and then becoming like a visitor destination of its own now, it's a pretty good theory, I think for for what this could potentially be and where could go to think about the Kentucky owl situation, for example, you know, immediately it's the plans for a gigantic, gigantic park in distillery, you know, so are we going to see something like that? Is that going to be the growth plan for her, not in this 28:00 Or are they just going to keep you know, continuing with the brand as it is and sourcing and kind of doing business as usual? Be curious to see how that changes over time. 28:10 For sure, and I think you know, there's there's also something that kind of it kind of jogged my memory when I think about this when we look at you know, we had Corky was last week's podcast, we've had coffee from rabbit hole on and there's always like this. A lot of these CEOs they say a lot of the same things of like, we're never going to sell this is going to remain in the family forever. And then it's like, is it though like is it like is it puts a fat check in front of your face? Like it's got to be pretty hard to turn down. There's always a number. I agree. I think you have to look at you know, let's take a look at at those two particular brands. Kobe had a lot of investors. 28:56 Corky did all this with his own money and he's got 29:00 Trust lined up and everything, it always comes down to the money. And look man, I'm in business. I don't come from money. I've had to work for everything I've gotten. And when you sit down in a room with with money people, you know, they always want something. So, you know, you give up something to give up shares of your company or something to get what you want out of them. But this, you know, there comes a point where they're like, okay, we've had a good time on this fried where's our payout? We went out and that we want to cash out and so everything depends upon how your business structure is when you have these small distillers 29:41 you know one other one other in games is that like, this is Yeah, no, I agree. And I think for anybody that is ever getting into business like you always want to think like yes I do for the passion. I do it for the for the joy of what it is, but at the end of the day, if somebody puts a big fat check in front, your face 30:00 That's, that's part of the American dream too. So you can't you can't discount that. So, you know, as we kind of almost kind of switch gears a little bit. And this is one that I actually kind of like this one because Fred sent this a little bit before we started here. And this was the fact that 30:18 PBR is getting ready to start making their very own whiskey. So I will drop the link here into the chat. I'm also going to drop it into 30:28 the YouTube chat as well so you can kind of see it, but really what it is, is PBR is now making a whiskey that's been aged for a complete total of five seconds. So that should probably already kind of get your blood flowing a little bit. So they have recently talked about their have a new, hard sell to it's coming out with a percent. But now they're actually going to be doing a 40% whiskey. It's already 40% ABV that has been aged for five seconds. So Fred kind of talked about this one Fred does this. Make your blood boil a little bit 31:00 Yeah, I have two words for PBR. Fuck you. 31:07 Yeah, I think it's I think it's a, you know, PBR is trying to be trendy and they got some headlines with this. But you know, 31:20 given that we're, we have a brand that's raised, basically repackaged Zi Ma, taking over the space of 31:30 millennial consumption. And actually really, Why call penetrates the entire world right now. 31:37 Anything is possible with what will be the next big thing and PBR has got a big brand behind it and I just, I just wish they would, you know, 31:47 this is this is a mockery of whiskey so i just i hate everything about it. 31:55 Nick, do you share any the same the same feelings, you know, I 32:00 Always look, I do think it's interesting, it really created a buzz I think people who may not normally think about whiskey or bourbon or what they really are, you know, I think that just that buzz about that it's going to go into a container into an oak container, it's going to be aged for five seconds or, you know, whatever they end up doing with it, if anything, that's an awareness, you know, piece of will have number one, how good is it going to be, you know, so for somebody that is just doing shots at a bar, they never think about anything, you know, as far as you know, whether they like things that are you know, higher quality, you know, longer aged, etc. What am I really drinking? Where does it get its color from things of that nature? It may cause some people to kind of get curious about what's really there. And I think once people start getting educated reach the point of, you know, anybody who's listening to this or watching this right now, you know, you're obviously this is much farther behind, you know, where your journey started, or, you know, much farther behind where you are now where your journey started, but I think that's the interesting 33:00 part about it is kind of just that awareness. And what's probably a younger crowd that's going to be more, you know, 33:07 in tune with this or tasting this or whatever the case might be, you know, where it might make some people curious about exploring a little further and eventually getting to the point where they respect what's going on with the actual, you know, creation and aging and things of that nature. So I think it's interesting I don't hate it in the same way that I guess that Fred does. You know, Willie succeed. I don't know. You know, it's it's different than the beer in that sense of, you know, the beer. I see the market for this. I'm not so sure. I guess we'll see. Yeah, I think you look at it, like everybody wants to try to create something. And you know, what's PBR? PBR is not supposed to be some glorious luxury brand, right? Like this is supposed to be like bottom shelf like how like, How fast can we get this out the door and you know, really just churn product. And this might be following that same exact suit. I'm not too sure if this is supposed to be a a premium product by name. 34:00 Yeah, they're not trying to be premium and I guess from my standpoint it PBR five second whiskey has no impact on me whatsoever and I don't care about it. But I see where it's it's going like like Nick said it's going to be at the is going to be at the bar for a shot and hopefully it overtakes 34:22 you know, some of these other flavored whiskeys which I don't care about either as the you know, the new hot shot for college age through mid 20s. And then there's going to be a market for that and there always will be in my day it was Yeager Meister and you know, that's awful. 34:42 So, you know, knock knock your socks off, go ahead and do a five second whiskey. Try to sell it by by the shot to 24 year olds and I'll keep drinking what I've been drinking. 34:55 So you know, you talked about flavored whiskey there. Have you all seen the the new phenomenon of 35:00 screwball the peanut butter flavored whiskey. Okay, I think I had it first at your house to tell you the truth. But it started it's starting to catch on now like it's out here. Now I see it here. It's I mean, it's in all the forums, people are talking about it. It's like It's like the white glove whiskey right now. That was the first time I had it was bourbon and beyond last year. So I don't want to call myself a trendsetter. But you know, we did a 35:28 shout out to Tony from keg and bottle who actually gave me that probably about a year and a half ago. And he said, Kenny, I kid you not, this is going to be the next fireball. And so I mean, I guess a year and a half ago, he gave it to me and now all of a sudden, like people are buying and it's taken off a little bit, but you gotta like peanut butter, that's for sure. Because Yeah, definitely definitely has that. That flavor to it. Okay, then liked it or hate it. 35:55 All right, right position. Yeah. So So back to back to work. 36:00 whiskey. You know, there was something else that came out a few weeks ago on on geek calm, talking about the artificial tongue. Do y'all remember this? So I'll talk about it. So the artificial tongue can taste the light. Subtle, subtle, subtle differences. Wait, hold on. Wait, hold on. Okay, I got it. You don't have the art. I wonder what the artificial Tom thinks about the five second whiskey? I don't know. That's a good question. 36:26 I don't know if that's what it's really made for, though. Who knows? Right? I guess we'll find out one of these days. But this was built by Scottish engineers and it's ultimately made to sit there and try to find counterfeit frauds or anything like that. That's on the on the open market. And of course, you know, we talked about it with bourbon, you know, having counterfeit Pappy all the time and stuff like that. However, you're going to see this even larger scale in the scotch world as well. So Fred, what are your kind of thoughts on this artificial tongue? Well, I've actually talked to 37:00 Quite a few people about this who are like in a tasers role and I think most everyone knows I do a lot of tasting. And I think it's, I think it's great if it's not like, you know, stealing 37:16 that I'm curious to see like the data that like goes into it like how they how they create it, because I know of one like, you know algorithm that's out there that's been taking people's tasting notes and applying them to basically putting a collective 37:37 algorithm together of like white to say, from people various like if you're, if you're writing tasting notes on Reddit, or if you have tasting notes on a blog or anything that's scalable, there is now a there's some spiders out there that's out there taking him and they're applying them elsewhere. So, robot tasting, so if it's something like that, I'm not a fan of it, but if it's something that really 38:00 actually adds to the, you know, our world. I'm all for it. But, you know, the thing is, is like Canada, it's the right now their marketing is like spotting fakes. And that's great. But I wonder what their next iteration will be. Because, you know, 38:23 eventually it's going to be about like, you know, this is how you taste. So this is what you're going to like. And, you know, I think that's cool. Yeah, I think this could definitely lead to a lot of different things. I think. I think finding the counterfeits is a, it's kind of like a it's I don't it's like a gateway. Like, it's, I don't think it's going to have a large purpose at first. Like, I think you need to cover a little bit more blanket area here when you're trying to figure out exactly what can you do with this technology? It's got to be a little bit more uniform, a little more universal of actually how to catch on into the point where, you know, you know, Fred, you taste a lot, however, like, is this something where it's like, okay, 39:00 We've got six panelists that are humans and then our seventh is this AI machine, right? To make sure like, everything works like this out of this distillery, like, you know, we've been going for utilizing people for the longest time to you know, knows and tastes and actually understand what this what this is supposed to taste like and what typical batch it goes in, but we're human like what is human it's, it's you have error error is built in versus a computer. Whereas if you're feeding a data, like it's just computations, so you know, knicker or Brian, like, do you kind of see this like, much more spreading its way out into? Maybe distilleries should start looking into this time of technology as well. So I'm just waiting for the movie where artificial tongues go rogue, and one of them decides is going to go and replace everybody's whiskey with like rapid each whiskey because it's got the perfect profile and there's just insanity and chaos. You know. 39:59 I'm visually just look 40:00 is like little tongues across the street like just around like overtaken a rogue tongues. Yeah, rogue tongue, I think there could be great applications for it. You know, they just the question is, is it going to replace, not necessarily master distillers but you know, people that you know blend in in, you know, testing that takes place, you know, within distilleries, and producers, you think about kind of that non scientific nature of so much of this and even just tasting notes, like you're talking about, I mean, the very non scientific process in the sense and that's one of the kind of magical things about whiskey, you know, would we, you know, if there was inside each label or on each bottle, kind of like a very specific profile of a particular whiskey or almost a map that was scientifically put together, you know, would that be something that, you know, would enhance the experience to people want that, you know, is that the end result of what we're even, you know, kind of dealing with here? I think it's interesting from that aspect at the same time, I do think one of the 41:00 great things about whiskey is kind of the human and the art of whiskey. So it's almost a kind of a weird dichotomy of technology and, and kind of that, you know, our full human interaction that, you know, you don't want to see that necessarily overtaken but you do want to, you know, you do want to add you value when you can, you know, there's so many whiskies are so expensive, that I could definitely see a, you know, a value proposition for somebody to say, Hey, is this something I might like, you know, for example, or how do we design a better, you know, a better whiskey. I'm just really I'm really excited that there's been tech applied in 41:38 a valuable way usually, tech people apply it in the most into rapid aging or something that everyone's trying to fix that when there's really not a problem other than waiting. 41:51 But I'm just I'm just glad that somebody in the tech world is applying, applying their know how and skills to a very 42:00 particular area that we do probably could use some consistency. And I agree with Nick and I'll take it a step further though i mean i think while it's it's beneficial in some respects, to have this AI tasting because the AI is not can be thrown off with what you had for lunch or what you had for dinner. It's but it's on the other hand, it's going to be much more sterile of, 42:28 of an experience of a description of what you're supposed to be tasting. And so much as Nick said, is so much of drinking whiskey is the experience and it can change if you've got a steak versus something else. And it can change in the mood and I've been doing it presentation Fred did. Music can affect what you're what you're experiencing, and AI is never going to get to well Famous last words as never going to 42:58 have the experience 43:00 That you can have with whiskey and if I've got a piece of Gouda that I'm eating with it, AI is not going to be able to tell me again Famous last words how that's going to affect what what I'm experiencing at that moment. So it's it's nice but it's to me it's sort of like a party trick and we all know that Jim Beam or somebody would hack it to give like something like a legion like a 95 43:28 so now Brian, I'm picturing like, VR goggles, some scent thing going on here. 43:34 headphones with your favorite music, you know, you can certainly get right there. tastes and smells right at your at your disposal. Yeah, you see, a few Metallica, Metallica does that they have one of their tasters played various have everybody put on, you know, special headphones. And they have to taste like five different whiskeys. It's all their whiskey but they 44:00 People say like the whiskeys taste different based on the music they're listening to, and that there's news, new evidence that suggests that what you listen to has a much deeper effect on on how you taste. So I am definitely on board with what Brian just said there that the AI will never be able to pick out a more of a human element at least and probably in our lifetime. I think. I mean, I don't know, I think I think you're right, I don't think it's gonna have that human element to it. However, I think there's there's a lot of potential of what this could do in regards of thinking that you want to create more, say a brand that has a very, very specific kind of character. And so you take, you take one outside of a particular barrel, then you get a chemical breakdown of like the 30 different things that are in it. And it's like, you know, x percentage of something versus white percentage or another, and then you kind of figure out exactly Okay, I need this kind of percentages, and they all start equal now. 45:00 Alright, dump these barrels together. And now we eat. Now we kind of see this, this sort of specific profile that could be coming. So could be completely different in a way of building new brands versus just sitting there and saying like, okay, we'll just go and make sure this is this is this is not Pappy. This is just regular WO Weller. And you know, the thing about checking if something's fake or not, most the time when it matters, it's sealed, and you want to keep it that way. So that application is a bit of a struggle, you know, because you're probably rarely going to find a purchase contingent on you know, opening, pouring, tasting or testing or whatever the case might be. Yeah, how would you like to be the guy who just dropped $1.5 million on a bottle of McKenna gets a test and like, Oh, yeah, now. This is actually Glenfiddich, 12 year old, you almost don't want to know. 45:55 Like, no, just keep those things away. 45:59 Yeah, there's this 46:00 Definitely a bad side to that to it you know it as we start coming going down this path you know there's something news that happened last week. You know, there has been a tear on the secondary market lately like there's just groups are disappearing left and right. 46:17 The 2019 Kentucky's edge bourbon conference and festival pairs all things Kentucky with bourbon. It takes place October 4 and fifth at venues throughout Covington in Newport Kentucky. Kentucky's edge features of bourbon conference music tastings pairings tourists and and artists and market Kentucky's edge. 2019 is where bourbon begins. Tickets and information can be found online at Kentucky's edge.com. If you're making plans to visit the bourbon trail, the one thing you're thinking about is how do I get around to all these distilleries? We recently use Central Kentucky tours for a barrel pick and the hospitality and information was top notch tech. Even Ryan learned a few new things about Bardstown Central Kentucky tours offers public 47:00 Private tours for groups from two to 55 with pickups in Harrisburg, Lexington Volvo and everywhere in between. So book your time within the day at Central Kentucky tours.com. You've probably heard of finishing beer using whiskey barrels but a Michigan distillery is doing the opposite. They're using beer barrels to finish their whiskey. New Holland spirits claims to be the first distillery to stout a whiskey. The folks at Rock house whiskey club heard that claim and had to visit the banks of Lake Michigan to check it out. It all began when New Holland brewing launched in 97. Their Dragon's milk beer is America's number one selling bourbon barrel aged out in 2005. They apply their expertise from brewing and began distilling beer barrel finished whiskey began production 2012 and rock house was the club is featuring it in their next box. The barrels come from Tennessee get filled with Dragon's milk we are twice the mature bourbon is finished and those very same barrels. Rocco's whiskey club is a whiskey the Month Club on a mission to uncover the best flavors and stories from craft distillers across the US. 48:00 Along with two bottles of hard to find whiskey rackhouses boxes are full of cool merchandise that they ship out every two months to members in over 40 states. Go to rackhouse whiskey club com to check it out and try a bottle of beer barrel bourbon and beer barrel rye. Use code pursuit for $25 off your first box. 48:20 There has been a tear on the secondary market lately like there's just groups are disappearing left and right. And even the secondary backup BSM group that was over on me we may way whatever it is, is that's now gone as well. So it's not like it's just Facebook, it looks like this is like a virus that's continually trying to spread and it's just getting knocked out sort of wherever it goes. Now don't get me wrong, there's still a few groups that are remaining You know, they're probably around like the two to 3000 member Mark but there's nowhere near even on the bsm on me was like almost 10,000 or above. So it seems that we're everybody flocks to 49:00 These are just getting can left and right. 49:03 Now I've tried to reach out haven't really heard anything of in regards of why it happened or anything like that. However, it just seems there's there's no safe haven right now. Do you all kind of see this as is this can be the new norm? Or is it just like, it's just hot for the moment? We'll have to wait ride this wave, and then maybe here in another three months, will we back up to where it was, is going to happen. It's just a matter of what in when. And it might change over time. You know, as we're seeing right now, it's certainly changing how the communication is done. Probably the bigger question is if we have these call it a period of a drought, for example, which is interesting, because this is happening, you know, before we start seeing some of the big fall releases and things of that nature, you've got to ask yourself is is that going to change the the primary market, you know, because how much of the primary market is driven by what ends up happening on the secondary market? You know, so a lot of people buying you know, basically 50:00 The idea that they're going to be able to turn around and sell for a profit, if that is no longer in place or that you know, you knock out 50% or some in reasonable percentage of the, you know, people that are able to do that or see their ability to do that. Does that start driving prices down on the primary? I think it'll be interesting to see how that you know, kind of goes over the the upcoming months here. Yeah, I think we're going to see this in Natalie. That is, I think Brad Atlas had a post that was on Blake's group, this past week of, you know, the the new each Taylor amaranth has been album release. However, nobody can figure out what a price should be on it because there's no room there is no place to auction off and figure out what's going to be even today. There were I think, like 72 birthday Bourbons that were sold at old forester distillery downtown to kind of commemorate the old forester birthday bourbon and George bourbon Browns birthday. However, I haven't seen a whole heck of a lot of them show up on anywhere. So you know, this 51:00 Is this could be a sign of the times that, you know, hopefully you're buying it to hold on to it because finding the outlets to sell it is getting a lot harder now. It's definitely interesting. 51:12 I, you know, I, I'm beta testing an app right now and I've been asked if, like, people can do that and I'm like, Well, you know, I have that I have to, like, seriously look at that now. And I'm thinking of like the potential liability associated with it. I'm like, 51:29 you know, maybe you don't know maybe in your chat your own little private chat group, which I can't see but 51:37 it's, it's fascinating to me. How this this domino effect and I would love I would love to sit down with Mark Zuckerberg interview request I put out many times by the way, never that I have a probably, but I would love to find out if like he's had a hand in or some on Facebook, haven't you know, I would love to hear the rationale behind it. But I know they 52:00 said some things but there's more to it, there's gotta be more to it. It just doesn't. just doesn't make sense to me, especially with this new, this, this new social media site dumping it so quickly. It just, it's odd. Just, it's gonna be coming down from somewhere else. I mean, fame makes you wonder if brands are involved. Sorry, brands, you know, if we've got brands or somebody specific, you know, with intent, you know, and is watching this more closely, and specifically, I think that's a great question. And they have been watching these markets for for some time because they would even like, you know, price their whiskey to, to combat it, but I would, I would argue that it may not be a brand behind it, but a very powerful retailer. You know, who wants that money 52:58 and knows that that money 53:00 He's out there they want they want your dollar. They don't want you to buy it, you know, SRP and then flip it. I mean, there's any number of areas this could go, there's any number of people who would like to see it stop. 53:13 But I do know this. I, I know that most of the like the state authorities don't really care. You know, I mean, I've talked to him about it, and they're really care, you know, but like Texas does, Texas cares, Pennsylvania. All the control states actually. But 53:33 you know, this is doesn't seem to be like, any kind of state leading it. 53:39 Yeah, I mean, I don't know. The control states, they don't want competition. And Sylvania doesn't want to know, what cracks me up about Pennsylvanians. Every year they send out a press release, and oh, we lost like three or four of them this year, or one was broken in and transport. And I'm like, wow, I bet it suddenly got lost on the 54:00 The state majority leaders front still front step and you know the bottle accidentally broke after it was consumed by the directors house in our at the directors house and me is just it's all kinds of silly with with Pennsylvania 54:15 well let's control states in general but you know I think when we when we look at just the secondary market you know we've talked about it in regards of like how this built a culture This is probably how bourbon has a mass to how big it is because most people wouldn't even know about a lot of brands if they didn't see them on the secondary markets begin with I mean it's we all have our stories so I think it'd be it'd be interesting to kind of see where this is going to go you know me when I look at it I think this was this is a critical and crucial part of really what made bourbon what it is today. And you know, there's going to have to be somewhere where people can basically value this as sort of currency maybe it's trading You know, I'm, I don't like to sit there and say like, yeah, go get a birthday bar, birthday bourbon, 450 bucks and go try to sell for 300 like 55:00 I'm not all about that However, it's like, if you get a birthday bourbon 450 yet, you can't get a George t stag this year. And that's just part of the trade. And that's great, right? That's, that's something that you are able to get your hands on, you can kind of trade your way there, you know, and start with a paperclip unit with a plane. But that's that's essentially like where I like to be able to see this because it's all about getting the, you know, the bourbon that you want in your hands and kind of how to get it. But yeah, I mean, I think you're right, but for to the point of like this, this help kind of like spread the enthusiasm. 55:33 I know like the people in the groups, if you if you put it on scale, you're looking at maybe at most like 2 million or something, at least the various groups that I knew of, and that's not a lot in the grand scheme of things. Those people who are like everybody's influencer in their families in their workplace, and they would be the people out there talking about bourbon so and it was the these groups kind of became community 56:00 Bs and I was, you know, I, I love them. You know, I love them because we're actually I love them five years ago, you know, they they changed quite a bit in the last couple years, but they were very, very engaging. You can talk history, you can talk about who distilled water like, I mean, I remember having a conversation with someone educating them about Woodrow Wilson, which if you don't know, he was a master distiller, it's it's a well or for a very short period. But you know, he made some good whiskey. And so I guess a, you know, as we start thinking of other ways of how is the bourbon market being hindered, you know, there's been finally some data that's now coming out about the US whiskey exports and the tariffs that are now happening over in the EU. So when we start looking at this, you know, I look at some of the data here and I'll again, I'll drop the link in the chat for folks that want to be able to see this. You can see all these links in our show notes as well. 57:00 But the distilled spirits council came and said that there was a 21% decrease from June 2018 to June to 2019. That was all lost sales after shipments to Europe plummeted. So we've got the data coming in. 57:19 You know, I know Fred, you're you're kind of close to this. Is there a way that things could eventually bounce back to help bourbon brains grow? And I will always say it again that if somebody says, Oh, yeah, this is great, because it means more bourbon on the shelves for me. You're in the wrong here. Okay. Think bigger. Well, there have been some really nice trade related things that have happened like in a couple weeks, I was invited to to meet the European Union ambassador to the United States. And they're celebrating scotch Irish and bourbon whiskey, the you know, the unique designations of them and like all the all the country 58:00 kind of coming together in Washington DC to celebrate this. And so, from an industry perspective, you know, they have the ears of their legislators, their ambassadors, their Parliament or whatever. 58:14 You know, Brexit also, you know, through a wrinkle into it. So in an odd way Brexit could be 58:23 you know, it could be good for for the tariffs, 58:27 you know, for that particular portion. But, yeah, so those are a couple of the good things but in in all seriousness, you know, they're not letting up you know, Europe is still very hell bent on applying pressure. And you know, there's been reports that they want to apply more pressure you know, in in in mitch mcconnell areas so I just, I just don't see this you know, being good and it's in it's shut out small brands like the topping Creek completely. And Kenny, I know you're a brand owner. 59:01 You know, you want to, let's say you want to open them. You have a small shop in Poland, who absolutely loves to show loves you wants to make you his number one whiskey in his store, you won't find a distributor in that entire country that'll take your call. You know, it's just because of tariffs, they don't want to pass that on it. They're just not taking calls from small American lyst companies. So 59:25 yeah, and I think this is this is, as I mentioned before, I mean, this is so much bigger than just what you can get here in the shelves like this is this is trying to grow the category as a whole to start taking on scotch as as, you know, the whiskey in the market. And we can't get to that level scotch unless you have a fair playing field, you know, across the board to be able to say like, okay, like, let's get this in the hands of people in Australia and Zimbabwe and China and, you know, in the EU as well, like, how can we grow this as a whole. And this is really where the tariffs are going to start really being that that first sort of 1:00:00 Hand slap, I guess you could say is, if you're trying to reach a new market, you know, all of a sudden, if you have a, if you got a 30 or $40 bottle here in the States, I mean, you're, you're looking at doubling that, if not coming close to triple as you start getting, you know, already just distribution overseas, but now the tariffs are adding a lot more to it. And if you can't compete with a, you know, 50 $60 bottle of scotch, then you're, you know, you're already setting yourself up for failure. And so, you know, as we start kind of rounding this out, you know, Nick and, Brian, I kind of want to get your sort of thoughts on this, if you have any sort of inkling of what do you kind of see next? Maybe, if it's an election year, is there anything that could change? You know, after that as well, Nick, you go ahead and go first. I was gonna I was gonna say the same. 1:00:53 You know, I, it's, I think it's tough to say what's going to happen going forward. I'd be really curious. 1:01:00 To see, you know, what small brands are seeing the impact of this right now? 1:01:06 Immediately, 1:01:09 you know, like anything, I think there's the initial shock of it, but then, you know, demand is demand. So if that means to 20% increase in price or whatever the case might be, if the demand is there 1:01:21 over time might cause that to, you know, to become a non issue. But, but it's a barrier of entry as a starting point. So when you think about bourbon growing on a global scale, and the potential it has on a global scale, you know, certainly that's a pretty 1:01:40 pretty immediate, you know, block of have taken that first step for a lot of you know, a lot of these brands on that larger scale. You know, what if you see this go on for a period of time, then suddenly it goes away, you know, do you have the opposite impact you have suddenly a flood of, you know, a flood of opportunity, a flood 1:02:00 brands that are saying, Okay, now this opportunity just opened up, we're going to put pressure on actually doing this. Because if you think about all the brands that are out there, especially the small ones, how many of them are actually taking those steps right now to get overseas? I'd be curious out of this 1000 or 1200 distilleries. You know, in the US, for example, how many you're saying, Let's get on the shelves in Europe, or let's get on the shelves in Australia or Japan or whatever the case might be? China, what's the market like over there? But it will be interesting to see how it plays out, you know, like anything, it's it's a global economy, we're going to see the push and pull. And I think ultimately, the long term play for bourbon for us whiskey is to be probably bigger than scotch, quite frankly, I personally think is better, you know, so there's no really no reason why it can't be bigger or at least just as big it's just a matter of time and what you know, things are going to have to move and shift around and what dominoes are going to have to fall in when 1:03:00 can't allow that to, you know, to really gain some momentum and happen. Bourbons got a long way before it catches scotch. And I'll tell you like, this is why this is why the tariffs are so frustrating to me is that, you know, bourbon became a unique product to the United States largely in part because they were trying to get special designation so they would not get tariffs after world to the country, the rest of the world basically tariff bourbon and open the open the markets for scotch to help the United Kingdom recover from World War Two because, you know, they were bombed and everything, they took a much greater hit on the physical real estate of their country. And, and so they were places like Argentina, you know, was terrifying us like 200% United Kingdom actually had like limits of bourbon that they would allow in the country for a given year. And when they would actually when the bourbon distillers would push to like, you know, have exports. You know, the French basically came back and said, 1:04:00 Why would we give you any kind of anything carefree when bourbon doesn't mean anything to us? Like you have no special designation, of course the French, you know being the home of cognac and Champagne has a very unique understanding of like designation for alcohol. And and so in 1958, they started the bourbon industry started banding together and working to make bourbon, a unique product in the United States. And after that in 1964, they then had the ability to negotiate and free trade agreements to peel away tar

Campbell Brown, President and Managing Director of Old Forester is back on the show. If you've been a long time listener, you may have remembered him back on Episode 98. As the President of Old Forester, he oversees a lot of the brands momentum and strategy. We get his take on bourbon tariffs with international expansion along with his hope for future movie partnerships. Anyone interested in a business background, you're going to find this one entertaining. Show Partners: Barrell Craft Spirits takes blending seriously. They spend months obsessing over hundreds of combinations until they figure out the perfect blend for you. Find out more at BarrellBourbon.com. Receive $25 off your first order with code "Pursuit" at RackhouseWhiskeyClub.com. Show Notes: This week’s Above the Char with Fred Minnick talks about Marianne Eaves. Talk about the Brown influence on our city because you've got the Brown Hotel, The Brown Theatre, the Hot Brown, etc. Is there pressure to keep the Brown tradition going? How did you work your way up at Brown-Forman? What got you into the Old Forester category? Talk about the building and distillery. What about the fire in 2014? What chapter are we in right now in Old Forester history? Let’s talk about international markets and tariffs. What was the international growth plans for Old Forester prior to all the tariffs? Did they change or are they staying the same? Where do you see the Old Forester brand? What are you doing to elevate the Old Forester brand into a premium category? Talk about your team and what goes into the bottle. Do you take a Bill Samuels approach about not interfering with what goes in the bottle? Is there a brand rivalry in the company? Do you have to fight Woodford for barrels? Will you ever have 100% of production here? What impact did the Kingsman movie have on Old Forester business? Do you have a strategy to do more than Statemans? If you could do a movie tie in, which movie past or present would you do? How far down the gene pool are you to George Garvin Brown? 0:00 Basically what I'm hearing is Chris and Jackie go into a room, and they're fighting over a barrel. And Jackie's winning the fights right now. You know, I wouldn't say that I would say I mean, I mean if it did come down to a physical battle, I would put my money on Jackie. 0:28 This is Episode 201 of bourbon pursuit. I'm one of your hosts, Kenny. And let's go through a little bit of news but really the big news this week, and maybe you're living underneath a rock you weren't looking at social media you weren't looking at any of the news articles that came out but Marianne Eave's the master distiller castle and key, the one that was renowned as being the first female master distiller since prohibition, in a joint press release has announced her resignation from the distillery with mixed emotions and various news articles she expresses that she isn't done yet being a master distiller. 1:00 And we'll continue to stay in the industry as a consultant. We recorded an episode back on I think it was actually was 18 back with Marianne and this is before castle and key the name was even ever conceived and it was being referred to as the former old Taylor distillery. So make sure you go and you check that out and kind of check out her past and her you know, everything that she had built because we started this podcast pretty much the same exact time she was coming online with castle and key. So we wish Marianne all the best and her future opportunities endeavors. And we look forward to having her back on the show. Once again. This didn't get much publicity, but I was a part of Media Day at Churchill Downs during Derby week. And Fred along with I we got to hear Chris Morris and listen to the call talk about Woodford batch proof. And we didn't really know all the details about it. But come to find out it's going to be a new product line extension and will only be released one time per year at the beginning of spring which happens to be around Derby time. Of course, batch proof is somewhat like barrel proof but not exactly what's 2:00 they do is they have their standard offering of Woodford Reserve. And then every barrel is rinsed out with a gallon of water and added back into the batch. And most of us kind of know that or we call it the devil's cup. So just a little tidbit of information. So if you're looking for a more higher proof version of Woodford, and it's gonna be different every single year, go and check out Woodford batch proof 2:22 on our news pursuit series episodes 10 and 11 are now on sale this week to our Patreon community at first, you know, we've been talking about Episode 10 for a while and we're super excited release it because this is a five year we did bourbon coming from Finger Lakes distilling, and this distilleries getting crazy good accolades. We featured them back on the Empire right episode, and they get good reviews from pretty much everywhere. bleak driver of bourbon or as well as and Aaron Goldfarb of hacking whiskey sold out a barrel of their Ice Wine finished bourbon in 48 hours. Michael Veatch recently reviewed their Mackenzie bottle and bond bourbon and breaking bourbon even named that 3:00 bottle and bond bourbon, one of their best Bourbons of 2018. And now we have the first ever barrel proof release at five years old. Episode 11 is right around the corner as well and it's a short barrel. And who doesn't love short barrels only 112 bottles were in this barrel. And it is the second highest proof we have released thus far coming in at 114.3. It's also 10 years old. So it's got that good middle age Eurostar, middle of the road sort of age to it. As usual, first access is to our Patreon community, so make sure that you're checking out your emails to get your password for access. We're excited to have Campbell Brown back on the show. If you've been a longtime listener, you may have remembered him being a part of the legend series partnership that we have with the Kentucky Derby Museum. And that was back on episode 98. As the president of old forester he oversees a lot of the brand's momentum and strategy with anyone interested in a business background. This is what you're going to find entertaining and with that, 4:00 Let's go hear from our good friend Joe at barrel bourbon. And then you've got Fred Minnick with above the char. 4:06 Hi, this is Joe from barrel craft spirits. I work with a team that takes blending seriously. We spend months obsessing over hundreds of combinations until we figure out the perfect blend for you. lift your spirits with barrel bourbon. 4:22 I'm Fred Minnick, and this is above the char. When I walked into the brown Forman office to interview Chris Morris, I sat down in a nice leather chair. The PR person's office was surrounded with like fishing photos and family photos. It felt very friendly. And then in walked a young woman I hadn't ever met before. She was tall, blond hair, very pretty. And she extended her hand and said, Hi, Marianne Epes, so nice to meet you. 4:52 Chris looked at me and said, Marianne is our new master taster. Brown Forman had just named Marianne 5:00 To be the master taster of the Woodford Reserve brand. I later learned that she was on a path to become the next master distiller for Woodford Reserve. Imagine that being in your early 20s and having the opportunity to become the master distiller for one of the greatest bourbon brands on the market. Now, at the time I thought to myself, I never met her, and what is this young woman know? And despite my 5:32 my background and covering women in whiskey writing the book, whiskey women, I had only just met Marianne, I felt like Marianne needed to prove herself a little bit before I could officially think in my mind that you know, she is capable of being a master distiller and so I talked to her. And what I learned from her within 30 minutes, was that she was one of the brightest young minds, not just in Kentucky, but in all of 6:00 American whiskey. She could tell you everything there was to know about corn and how much starch to extract and how to distill it and what are the different distillation techniques to get whatever you need out of something. She was an engineer. And she chose to go into bourbon versus making ethanol or something else because bourbon was her passion. And when she announced her departure of brown Forman for a new distillery that would be starting up at the old Taylor facility, which is actually near Woodford Reserve. I was kind of stunned because who, after all, would leave the opportunity to become the master distiller of Woodford Reserve. And then I got to know Marianne even more. She has that entrepreneurial spirit. She wanted to do her own thing. She wanted to be a part of something new. Well, this past week, Marianne announced her departure of castle and key 7:00 It's a little bit of a historic one from an American whiskey perspective. You see, Marianne was the first woman to take the title master distiller at a Kentucky distillery. Now don't get me wrong, there were women in the past, who actually were doing master distiller work, but they did not take the title. And I think when you put the master distiller title on your card, you got a little bit of a target on your back. And after her departure, you saw that target, getting pelted for Marianne. There were people who were making fun of her for her how she is on social media saying things like well who will take selfies now, at the distillery there were people who were pointing out the fact that heard bourbon had not yet hit the market. How can she call herself a master distiller and I gotta tell you, all of that disappointed me greatly because here was a young woman who took a risk 8:00 And left one of the most comfortable position you could possibly be in the distilling business. She took a risk for something new. It didn't work out. It happens to all of us. We don't know the reasons. It could be personal, it could be professional, there could have been conflict there. She may have not gotten along with her bosses and who here has not? Who here has not been in a position where they were working for someone they couldn't stand? Maybe that's what it was, or maybe it was vice versa? I don't know. I don't know the reasons why Marianne left. But she did not deserve the vitriolic comments that she got from people on social media didn't deserve a single one of them. But I also know Marianne rises above all that, because at the end of the day, she's a very talented young woman, and she can do whatever she wants to include being the first master distiller and Kentucky whiskey history. And that's this week's above the char. Hey, if you have an idea 9:00 For above the char hit me up on Twitter or Instagram at Fred Minnick. That's at Fred Minnick. Until next week. Cheers. 9:11 Welcome back to another episode of bourbon pursuit the official podcast of bourbon. The whole team here today recording at the I guess you could say me, the old forester studio, something like that. We're actually in the old forester distilling tasting room, actually seeing a pretty cool behind the scenes, kitchen esque cocktail mixing sort of area. But this is going to be a fun episode because our guest today was actually somebody that unbeknownst to him, he was he was on the show before from the Legends Series, but of course, 9:45 yeah, the Kentucky Derby Museum legend series that was that's probably my favorite of the of the legend series I've done because Campbell's one of these guys have been so instrumental not just in bourbon, 10:00 But all spirits and people, people just here you know, he's a member of the brand family and everyone thinks I just get things handed to him. This guy worked his way up, you know, worked in foreign markets did a lot of grunt work that a lot of people in bourbon royalty wouldn't do. And so he's one of those people I like bringing to the forefront and telling his story a little bit because he's done a lot. He's done a lot to help people like us. You say grunt work I also know that at some point he was the the soco Ambassador at one point right so that's a little grunt work. This is so co by Soca we mean Southern Comfort and you know i one time that was a that was a brilliant brand. Oh yeah, absolutely. And it helped it was a part of the brown Forman family of course they sold it to SAS rack and and you know, I think we should ask him about like what was that like for him because he did have such an emotional connection to it and of course he's also came out with soco long shots you know. 10:58 I'm not really interested. 11:01 Well you You're always wanting to drink fireball or something comfort sounds right up my alley, you know, should we really mean should we have him on anymore? With all this like, whiskey? I don't know. I mean, he tell you what we before we started recording, you know they offered us a drink and Ryan kind of piqued his interest so tell everybody what we're drinking as well we got him in front of us. Well, so Jackie was in the cabinet, you know picking some selections when she said I have some president's choice barrel she kind of whispered Campbell and he was like No, no and I was like I heard that will be like that barrel proof or appreciated Jackie. But as you can see, I think this episode will be a lot juice here then the legend series because we've been here boozing all day and the the research lab Yep, just kidding responsibly, we respond. 11:44 Absolutely. So with that, let's go ahead introduce our guests. So today, we have Campbell Brown Campbell is the president and managing director of old forester for brown Forman. So Campbell, welcome to the show. Good to be here. Thank you. Absolutely. So, you know, we kind of gave you a little bit of 12:00 Have a head start of what you did and growing up into here and doing some grunt work and kind of cut your teeth in the history but I kind of want to take it back a little bit because as some of our listeners may not know, you're from originally Montreal. I was born here in Louisville. I turned five I moved to Montreal and I turned five in Montreal. Yeah and I grew up there Wikipedia my research Yeah. 12:26 We get it right. So somebody update the Wikipedia page before I have to but I also want to give anybody that's from out of town in in fretted already hinted at it to have the name Brown. And what that means to the city of little because you've got the brown hotel, you got the brown theater, I mean, you got a damn the Buddha Cancer Center, you got the brand, you've got all different browns, you've got the hot brown you got every night, right. So kind of just talk about kind of wish that one was 12:53 but kind of talk about the brown influence of just in Louisville just for anybody that's listening. That's across the nation. 13:00 Well, our families, you know, been a part of this city 13:05 in for generations even going back before George Garvin Brown, you know, we've had, you know, family in Kentucky and and i think involved in, in the state from a political standpoint from a commercial standpoint, philanthropic standpoint. 13:24 You know, it's it's our home. I think we're so proud that you know, the city's been really quite good to our family and to this business. 13:34 My, you know, my, you know, I was born here in 67. Kind of spent my early years here, but growing up in Montreal, it was all a little bit foreign. I remember, you know, coming back here in the summers for a couple weeks and just remembering how incredibly hot sweating your ass off. Yeah, yeah, it was I was like, wow, that's, that's a new heat that we don't get up and can 14:00 Uh much and then, 14:02 you know farms everyone like everyone had a farm and so we would go out to my grandmother's farm 14:08 or you know, an uncle and and you know, you just, you know, see these animals you just don't see and in West Mountain Montreal where we grew up and then you know eating like lima beans I never really was into lima beans until I got here and frankly, I don't think I've been into lima beans until about 10 years ago. That's really an acquired taste. That's something I never thought we would start talking about. 14:32 The lima beans is Pat Steakhouse. It does Yeah. Yeah, right. 14:37 on track. We expect a royalty check from Pat's after the yes he 14:42 Well, he's a cash operating business. He actually started taking credit cards. Yeah, yeah. 14:51 That'll do it. So yeah, I mean, look, Louisville, Kentucky, obviously, you know, our family's been around here for a number of years and generations. I 15:00 I think, you know, it's a great city. 15:02 It's got a great attitude. I think it's an exciting time to be a part of the city. And I think, you know, 15:10 I like having a family here, Mike, you know, I, my eldest child was born in Annapolis, my youngest was born here in Louisville. You know, 15:18 it's great raising a family here. It's 15:22 good. I just I like, I like what's happening and sitting, I want to be a part of it. And I think that, you know, most people that have been a part of this city for a lifetime, you know, we talked about our high schools and where we went to school, I mean, that I think there's a reason for that is that we all have these great, really strong emotional connections that go back to childhood and you've got people that come in and out of the city. I mean, I was out of here 15:44 for six or seven years, always knowing that I was going to be coming back in so it's, yeah, it's a unique place. And I think we've been fortunate that we got into the right business at the right time, and it's thrived for for quite some time. Now. And 16:00 gives us a chance to 16:03 kind of enjoy being in an industry that's got so much to do with, with the city in the state. And I'll add to, you know, a little bit of the brown legacy. You know, 16:11 Campbell mentioned politics, they've, they've had a lot of people in high places there. But to me, the brown family is really about philanthropy. And 16:21 if it was not for the brown family, I mean, we wouldn't be talking about whiskey row today. I mean, they essentially saved whiskey row where we are right now. And they when a Louisville was crumbling from an art perspective, the brown family kind of held it up, you know, so you go around our museums here, and you'll see a brown at the top of every one of the donors. So they're a very, very important family for our community. Absolutely. Absolutely. And so is there like, you know, as Kenny and Fred said, the Browns are like one of the most famous families probably in the city is there like a pressure or like something to get out like, we got to keep this 17:00 thing going or How's that feel to be a part of that tradition and keep it going? 17:04 Well, 17:06 I don't know. I mean, I think you just, you certainly you want to be respectful to what the city represents and reflect that, you know, appropriately. I think, 17:18 you know, I don't know if it's pressure. I think that at all, really, I think, you know, you're many of us have different jobs and doing different things. And I think there's a, there's a, I think, a bias towards staying engaged, staying interested understanding kind of the issues and the opportunities of the city and figuring out ways in which we can help, like anybody would really in our own individual ways, 17:45 you know, to help to find solutions and empower people and empower ideas. And I think that, you know, frankly, there are so many people in this city in particular that are doing that every day. I mean, I work with Holly McKnight, her husband, JK me 18:00 ignite is done a ton for this city through, you know, his Philip philanthropy, philanthropy and through his interest in music and they can throw a party party. Greg great taste. You know, so I think that and there's, like, individual after individual like that are that are here, you know, looking I think because it's a city that's fairly manageable size it gives individuals an opportunity to kind of make things happen that would be much harder to do even in a Nashville certainly in a New York or Miami but I think there's still as an economy of scale that allows a good idea or a strong individual to make something powerful happen. It's a big small town. Yeah, yeah. So also want to kind of just talk about your, your rise with inside the ranks of brown Forman too, because little research shows that you started off in the mailroom at Brown Forman so kind of talk about the steps that you took up the ladder to to kind of where you are today. Well, I mean, we've got 19:00 Great internship. I mean, the internship programs gotten a whole lot better since I was a part of it. 19:06 And that's how I got involved. You know, I didn't know anything about really the business I grew up in Montreal, had a chance to move spent a summer in Louisville. I got a job in the mailroom. I think, you know, those types of opportunities in a mailroom gives you a real perspective on who people are in a company, what different groups do individuals do you learn about the brands, I remember walking in and to my cousin Mac Brown's office, and I think he was part of the Jose Guarino company at the time, and was running maybe Martel and just seeing the point of sale in his office and going God, he got this job, this would be great. Look at that. I mean, you know, just some neat stuff and, and I think it's a business that kind of captures your imagination and you see kind of neat things that you can touch and feel and and so that certainly gives you a nice kind of 20:00 insight into, 20:02 you know how people get their jobs done. And it's a beautiful campus. If you've ever been down to brown Forman it really is set up like a university campus. And it's a great place to work and so that that certainly draws you in. And then, you know, I went and got a graduate degree and came back in 94 and started to work actually, we were talking you're talking about in the intro about Sasha Sasha Mark Brown, who run says rack was hired me at Brown Forman when he was running the advancing markets group. And so I began working in that like our emerging markets group in 94. I went to Chicago for a bit of supposed to be there for a couple years and an opportunity opened up for me overseas and I got asked to come back to go over to interview for the job, but they wouldn't tell me what the job was. And so I you know, I spent basically the better part of a day trying to figure out why 21:00 I was in what I was, what job and then I kind of figured it out. And as it turned out, they wanted me to go to India. And I think they were just nervous about telling me that while I was living in Chicago thinking I might not come for the interview, just because it's such a far way to go. And you know, it's a it's a difficult market. It's not like, you know, when you're 2425 years old, and somebody says, Hey, do you want to go to Australia? Yes, I do. When did you want to go to India, it's such a foreign place. And you really don't have the same kind of immediate 21:34 interest, frankly, and kind of moving up there and go into a country that big and that vast, 21:41 and I ended up moving there. I was supposed to go there for four months, ended up spending a year and I left that place in tears. I absolutely loved it. It was one of the best experiences of my life. I got to travel all over the country helping set up a joint venture where we were local bottling Southern Comfort. So that was my first kind of 22:00 introduction into a relationship with the brand that I had off and on for over a decade at the company. And I was just great. It was fantastic. Great people great food. What was your favorite Indian food dish? Chicken Tikka Masala. Oh yeah, yeah, like Assad pioneer London on yet naan bread delicious. I mean everything about it I loved 22:25 and then I moved to the Philippines to help set up the joint venture over there also around the Southern Comfort brand, and was on my way to Thailand to be a country manager and I got 22:39 persuaded to go help open up an office in Istanbul in Turkey for regional marketing office that we had there and I went to do that and I ended up staying in Turkey for three and a half years before coming back to the US. As a US brand manager for Southern Comfort. You should have been the dosa keys and World's Most Interesting Man 23:00 Well, yeah, maybe like some nice locations, but not nearly the exotic experiences that that guy had. For sure. Yeah. And so what got you into the, I guess the old forester category? Was it to the point where you said, I kind of want to move on or was at the sale of Southern Comfort and you said, Okay, I'm looking for a new home, you know, what it was? 23:20 I think we began to see some interesting things happening for old forester. We had we had had a great brand team that was coming up with some pretty wonderful ideas that are now we're drinking, you know, the whole whiskey roll concept. And there was an opportunity with the, you know, with the we finally got the approval to go build this distillery at the location we're at today. 23:45 And we wanted to bring that story together a little bit like you know, the story of a brand that's been around for 100 and almost hundred and 50 years that's been in our family and our company. That kind of the business we started with was old forester and 24:00 Bringing that story of our family, the business and the community together. At that point, I had about 20 years experience. So, you know, here's a person that actually, you know, may have the, you know, commercial sense to go lead this and, and, and had the, the obvious, you know, the right DNA to connect the dots on this five generations story and so I, you know, I was asked to kind of head up the building phase of this and the capital project and then help lead the brand and tell the story of, you know, one of America's unique alcohol products and and it's really been a pleasure to be able to kind of have that role. Let's go to the, the construction part of this first. I mean, first of all, 24:52 it from a business perspective. You gotta be nuts to try and build a distillery in a good little lab. 25:00 better places to do this right? I think this area burnt down yet two times. Yeah. Can you take us through that process of like? 25:09 Well, I what I loved it what makes me feel good, like smarter people than me made the decision. 25:16 So, yeah, that that location site was picked well before I started. 25:21 Yeah, I think it will I mean that but that's what makes it so special. You know, like, here's a location that we actually like our founder office out of, for from whatever 25:33 1882 to 1919. And, you know, we get to move back in here decades, generations later, I mean, so that's a special thing that when you get a chance to take advantage of that you do it. 25:47 We I feel like one of our core capabilities at the company is building wonderful home places that allow us to tell 25:56 great brand stories while displaying a process. 26:00 And we worked with some great partners here in town and out of town that 26:06 you know, frankly put together a proposition that was hard to say no to and that you know, and frankly, you know, as you get into these projects, you like any kind of renovation or building you know, something happens all the time that you're not expecting certainly the fire being a big obvious one. Tell us about that. let's let's let's let's go there because 26:30 Was it 2014 Yeah, the right one. I started right when you started so 2014 fire there's smoke all downtown Louisville, the news crews are here. I see it on the news. That's how I find out about it. How did you guys work because it was over you your tweet, you know through here I'm a first responder so I was I was the fights right? I actually I forgot I came on the site and I was tweeting about it. I forgot about that. But what was what was that like for you? Where were you? Yeah, what was going through your head when 27:00 When the fires when the fire hit, so I was in the office at 850 Dixie Highway and I got a phone call from a buddy of mine in corporate development who had a friend down here works for one of the law firms or one of the banks I don't know and he was looking out his window and called my colleague and said look, I think think buildings on fire and so I got the phone calls I get Look, I just got a friend a call from a friend who says that the buildings downtown on Main Street are on fire I don't know if it's the distillery or not but you may want to check it out. And so I just you know, I had my computer up and I i there was this live feed on I think wave or one who is one of the stations of a helicopter and I pulled it up and 27:46 for sure, it was obvious that the block was on fire. less obvious was was it did we was it in our building or was it down the block and you knew no matter what it was going to be a problem. 28:01 And your first reaction was, it was shocking how violent the fire was how much flame there was the, the number of the amount of smoke, the amount of water being thrown at it. It was it was a big, big time fires like yeah, like watching a movie almost. And you're kind of paralyzed. And I called Mike beach and Mike and his team are already down here. And Mike is the project manager who really is the guy that built this place, manage all the of the contractors and whatnot. 28:34 And so, you know, we had our folks down here and kind of trying to understand it and really you're thinking about safety. I mean, what happens if somebody is killed as they're trying to kind of put this fire out what you know, and you know, that they're taking the right precautions, but it was pretty 28:51 it's pretty devastating. You know, 28:53 I and my wife You know, my wife hears about it, you know, we're then we're later at night we're at home, the things still burning 29:00 I begin to get a lot of phone calls, just from friends and and, you know, they're trying to find out about it, it was pretty awful. And you know, 29:10 you we were already planning on the groundbreaking right? Like, what that ceremony was going to look like and everything else and, and so that everything gets put on hold and Now fortunately there there were no injuries. You know, we're standing we're sitting in the building today So look, it was it was a horrible thing when it happened, right? It's now a chapter and a long story. And this whole block looks stunning, you know, and so I think we're pretty fortunate and given the work it took to get it there because you a lot of people would have just let it you know, kind of tear down the facade and start from scratch. You all invested the money to actually save the the front Yep. And hold the brick in. I mean my I mean the we have braces out here for months. Yeah. 30:00 You guys are trying to protect the integrity of the bill as much as you could I mean, it was a dangerous dangerous 30:06 construction site for a long time. I mean, even as you're trying to clean up the inside in there been so much water put on the on the on the building site to to extinguish everything that it just eroded the ground and eroded all the brick and then you know, things are loose. When you're up front on Main Street on this side as we're trying to kind of dig through that and brace it all things are kind of crumbling as it's happening. And, you know, 30:35 we had to call in special engineers, it took a lot of time. A lot of smart minds looking at it, figuring out ways in which we could make it a safe environment to allow people to go back and work and so we really just had, you know, you know, 30:50 experts in there and just very few at a time and that took it just took a lot of time and you know, you kind of make these connections in the romance copy of what we do you know, we're in a business 31:00 Uh, you know, we're we spend our time waiting around for stuff to get ready. And so 31:06 you know, you want to you want to be you want to be quick and you want to make decisive decisions, but you also want to make the correct decisions. And, you know, 31:13 we took our time, I think we've got it right. You know, 31:17 this building, I think is fascinating the way that you have constructed it now, and it's a beautiful facility, I think, you know, 31:25 whether you're coming in here on a tour, or you're going to George's or you're just here to, you know, 31:31 walk walk around Main Street, it's, it's been done right. And, you know, 31:35 again, the fire is a chapter of the long story. Where are we at right now in the chapter? 31:42 Yeah, I think this is that whole fun Renaissance chapter. Right? It's, 31:46 it's the chapter you want to be writing and, you know, we're thrilled with what's happening with the brand. I mean, even in Kentucky, I mean, this brand has always been a great brand for the city and for the state but to see it grow 32:00 And the out, you know, the rural parts of Kentucky, embrace old forester in a way that I mean, I just never saw in my lifetime. It's fantastic. You know, there's, there's always been this core heartbeat of the brand here in town. And it's just kind of expanding there. And then you see what's happening in these other markets. And you know, how people are responding to some of the whiskey, the innovation, it's exciting, you know, I think there's a lot more to be written 32:27 with the whole category, right? I mean, we're just scratching the surface as it relates to bourbon in an American whiskeys outside of the US. And I think that's going to be really exciting and a lot of fun for us. I think innovation continues to kind of push the envelope of the category in a neat way. You know, 32:46 we've got bourbon in general, you know, it's just, it's, it's, you know, it's, 32:53 it just can be consumed in so many fun, different ways. I think it's really really versatile. And so you bring it you bring up the international 33:00 markets and, you know, this is very, very crucial time in American whiskey history because we haven't had this kind of export interest before. And now, we're in addition to having that interest we have we have some trade concerns where people are pressing tariffs. And 33:21 and, and you know that I can't think of a company that's more vulnerable to tariffs than brown Forman. Yeah. And, you know, I think that's, that's one of the tough outcomes of this as as these this terror of things going on. You know, we're an industry that's for the most, in most cases, it's single source production, right? We don't, the inputs of this product are 100% American. 33:51 And so it's an easy target for tariffs outside of the US because it doesn't really impact 33:59 any of the 34:00 Any supply side stuff that would be occurring from a European market for instance. I mean, pretty much everything is for bourbon and American whiskeys are made in America. So it's isolated. And so it's the perfect target to be in the middle of a territory, unfortunately. And it's it's a timing couldn't, you know, it's it's, 34:21 it's not great, you know, it's not a huge deal for old forester. Obviously, we're, we're a smaller brand that's got, you know, some nice momentum. 34:33 But it's not, it's not, you know, 34:36 it's not it's we don't have a huge footprint, a global footprint yet, but jack daniels, you're in the sister brand that's in Tennessee. That's, that's correct. It hit some hard. It does. It does. So you're not going to think of any sort of long term effects that old forester could have on this. I mean, is it because I'm sure you've had some sort of international expansion and thoughts. I mean, so we're lucky we actually have a nice 35:00 Really nice business. That's, that's got some great momentum in Australia. But that's not a tariff issue. You know, 35:06 we're in the UK. 35:09 And and that is more of a thing for us, but it's still a small brand that's being built in the on premise and, you know, 35:17 friends, right, I mean, this is really about the Woodford and the jack daniels of the world and and, and that that this has a real impact on on those brands and how we go about resourcing and how we go about brand building in, in in the European and Asian and Latin American market. So I'm not the best guy to talk about, you know, the, you know, 35:39 how that's impacting those brands, but it's obvious that I do think that like, yeah, you get the PDF every morning that says like, Oh, I will. I will say that. If there's, if there's a brand within the brown Forman portfolio that would survive like a tear for the countries that would be old for sure, because 36:00 It is. It is such 36:03 that powerful. Yeah, there was an article. My brother lives in London. And there was an article that came out and it was kind of a tongue in cheek thing. Okay, five things to do facing this terror floor on bourbon and American whiskey and I think one of the points was make jack daniels popsicles and last longer. I think people are coming up with ways in which to survive this period of time, I think will will survive, although i've i've screamed about it enough for the past. 36:39 So I want to ask a question is about the old forester brand and kind of where you see it. 36:45 You've probably heard of finishing beer using whiskey barrels, but Michigan distillery is doing the opposite. They're using beer barrels to finish their whiskey. New Holland spirits claims to be the first distillery to stout a whiskey a folks at Rock house whiskey club heard that claim 37:00 Had to visit the banks of Lake Michigan to check it out. It all began when New Holland brewing launched in 97. Their Dragon's milk beer is America's number one selling bourbon barrel aged out. In 2005. They applied their expertise from brewing and began distilling. At beer barrel finished whiskey began production 2012 and rock house was the club is featuring it in their next box. The barrels come from Tennessee get filled with Dragon's milk beer twice, the mature bourbon is finished in those very same barrels. rack house whiskey club is a whiskey the Month Club on a mission to uncover the best flavors and stories from craft distillers across the US. Along with two bottles of hard to find whiskey rack houses boxes are full of cool merchandise that they ship out every two months to members in over 40 states. Go to rock house whiskey club com to check it out. And try a bottle of beer barrel bourbon and beer barrel rye use code pursuit for $25 off your first box. 37:55 So I want to ask a question is about the enforcer brand and kind of where you see it. Do you see it as a 38:00 An everyday category premium category in are you doing anything to kind of elevate into a premium category? Well, for sure, I think it's a great question. And it's the one we wrestle with most regularly 38:15 is, you know, one of the wonderful aspects of the brand, if you talk to anybody that's been drinking it for a while, or that's familiar with it. 38:24 It's so accessible, you know that it's a great value bourbon, and, and I think that's something that is core to that brand DNA. And so maintaining that accessibility, both in the flavor profile and the price point. It's part of how we look at brand building for old forester so that's always going to be a thing. 38:46 Now, recently, we've been we've had some success with the introduction of whiskey row, which allows us to play in price points that are, you know, attractive, you know, these are $40 and above price points. There's a ton of 39:00 consumer interest in those price points and I think if you create a bourbon that's worth that price, or even considered a value at that price, it's a special place to be. So I think we'll always try to look for ways even at $40 and $55, or even looking at birthday bourbon, which is basically 100 bucks. Now, that's still a good value for a 12 year old, you know, 39:22 a highly allocated bourbon that you know, is got a recommended sales price at 100 bucks, it's hard to find it for that, but 39:31 know that that's, I think that's, that's part of, you know, what we look at and in our strategy so I'll say that, you know, if we take a look at some of the, of the releases of the last two or three years of what's really hit the mark, and in our community, old forester has been right there in the thick of it. The 2018 birthday bourbon, has probably the best birthday bourbon of the past decade. The 39:58 camera should have some 40:00 By the way, me a bottle. But I think you know, you never gone well you all. 40:08 But I mean, everybody really regarded the 2013 is one of the best. Yeah, it was very good. And then then the old forester 1920 is fantastic. Yes. And I look at i and i look at, you know, what has changed within your within your team. 40:23 And I think I feel like Jackie, and you may be a moral compass it like have happened. I feel like you've got somebody inside, you know, who's doing a great job of selecting stuff for you. So what Yeah, and I've also noticed that you walk around here, this is probably the most diverse distillery in the state. 40:49 You see more diversity, see more women, more people of color here, and I applaud you for that. But talk, talk us through your team and who's actually you know, picking 41:00 What what's going into the bottle right now? Yeah, well, I mean, I mean so Chris Morris is the continues to be our master distiller and leads the innovation. 41:11 You know, one who works at this distillery is you know, he's a big part of making sure what's coming out of here. Tastes like what we've got at Brown Forman distillery where the vast majority of old foresters made. Jackie's came on board I think about three years ago, right when I came on board, she was one of the first people that kind of was on our radar screen and the first person I think I hired as when I took over. 41:39 And there's no question that she has had an impact on how we talk about these brands, how we present them both in flavor and in kind of the copy and the positioning of them. She's allowed us to think differently about innovation. I think she's worked really well with Chris 42:00 And helping kind of you've got these two characters, two individuals that are really good at what they do that have I think fairly 42:13 I mean, they I think they just have they they have very well refined palates. Basically what I'm hearing is Chris and Jackie go into a room, and they're fighting over a barrel. And Jackie's winning the fights right now. You know, I wouldn't say that I would say I mean, I mean, if it did come down to a physical battle, I would put my money on jack. 42:34 But I think that they work well together now and Jackie, I mean, look, the birthday bourbon, how we proofing some of this stuff. I mean, she's really the the brains behind president's choice. 42:47 You know, it's we are lucky to have her and and she had a great impact. Do you take a little bit of a bit bill Samuels approach, or at least what he used to say is like, I don't mess with the whiskey. Do you? You let people kind of 43:00 make the decisions on what's in the bottle and you just kind of official Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, 43:05 I'm a great consumer. Yeah. 43:08 And and I'm proud of my, you know being a good long time responsible consumer. 43:14 But I mean, since I've been in this job I've probably spent more time thinking about, you know, my palate and like, frankly my biggest problem with you know, being like a whiskey taster is that I just don't have the reference points like I don't know what a scone Welcome to the crowd. 43:33 Like I can't Fred starts revealing or like, Yeah, he's got he's got his t shirt on it says like got marzipan. Yeah. 43:42 I don't know. I mean, I just so I mean, I feel like I've got a sense of what I like But yeah, I mean, Jackie's I can feel it yet figured out what consumers would like. Yeah, yeah. You know, 43:54 and there's frankly there's just people that are you know, it's in their DNA and 44:00 They've worked really, really hard to develop a palette that's responsive to liquids that they're tasting. And we've got some really good people at that, that do that here. But there's a little bit of responsibility your shoulders because there's another bottling called president's choice, that kind of falls within your realm. Now, I can talk about that more involved with that. But, you know, 44:24 Jackie, narrows it down to a point where it's hard to make a bad decision. Yeah, it really is. And will you were part of the first one I've leaned into, you know, a lot of really good. I know. 44:41 We all we all certainly looking around the room and look at how people are responding. But I mean, it was it was, it was interesting, you know, and, look, I'm still learning you know, frankly, you don't want me picking going out there. And, you know, you've got to understand where the barrels are and why those are 45:00 barrels would possibly taste different than another barrel. Certainly as you kind of fluctuate the proofs around, you know, it's easier for me to kind of taste stuff that's below 110 proof and get a sense of, you know, the character of that whiskey. But 45:18 yeah, I mean, I, I'm not the whiskey. 45:23 I want to I want to talk a little bit about that culture of brown Forman, you know, so you have three really prominent, you know, arguably all three iconic American whiskeys and jack daniels, Woodford Reserve, old Forester, and it feels like within the company, it's a little bit like University Kentucky versus University of Louisville. Like there's like a rivalry rivalry with within the company. would you would you do you see that or are you too close where I think Fred's creating one. 45:59 I have never 46:00 Done. Yeah, no, I I don't look I mean, the one thing you recognize any if you're fortunate enough to have a brand in your portfolio that's jack daniels or anything remotely close to that. It's a benefit. There's no doubt about it, you know it in so many different ways it's even hard to put into words opens a lot of doors I mean, it sure does and but they don't have a president's choice jack daniels you know you can hang your hat on that 46:29 they have a Sinatra Yeah, they got great they got a great portfolio I mean what if it's got a great portfolio you have to because 46:38 Woodford does you guys kind of share some some barrels you know, they you know, the warehouses Do you ever have to fight for barrels? Or do you already have everything kind of allocated to you within the company we have we need? Yeah, yeah. When will you be closer to like 100% of production here. Never. 47:00 They'll always be you'll always have a little share a little still time at Shively. Oh, for sure. I mean, that's Yeah, I mean, we have the capacity to do about 100,000 cases here. The brand's already, you know, everything all included is over 200,000 I think and so we're, we're, we're, you know, 47:19 we're growing so the majority will continue to come out of Shively. 47:24 Another question I cannot bring up is the statesman. Right? What kind of impacted old forts or statesman and aligning yourself to a movie? kind of have it as an impact on the business? 47:36 Interesting question. Yeah, so that was a little bit out of left field, right. It's not you know, if you look at how we've innovated or come up with products, it's been basically using our, our history to drive that and we had, you know, a really unique shot, that brands of this size with the kind of awareness we have would never get and we jumped at it and it basically 48:00 We took a brand that didn't really exist, and we put it on the market. And so that's, you know, close to 10,000 cases in under 12 months. And it was a, it was a huge impact for us. It You know, 48:13 it got us new points of distribution, all of a sudden, we're in all these amc movie theaters and, and around the introduction of that film when it came out, and we're doing, you know, some menu development in those places. And so, you know, 48:26 we got, we had a great partnership going with total wine, they got behind the product, and so it opens a bunch of doors, it allows you to talk for one, it you know, 48:37 that that movie itself has such a huge following in the around the world, that I think it probably gave us an avenue into consumers that would never ever buy a bourbon, or old forester for sure. But they love the movie and they see z and the cast drinking and they're like, well, geez, I gotta try that and wonder what that's all about. And so you get your already 49:00 Kind of as a recruitment tool it's wonderful market like Korea where we're nowhere we really don't have any product if it's there it's come through duty free in some way shape or form. 49:11 That's the number King's been was the number one movie in the country historically, it's the biggest movie. It's there like Star Wars. And that's weird. You explain I know I have no idea. No idea. But I mean, and so all of a sudden, you know that our Korean markets call and say hey, we got to get some of this stuff. So we're like getting pallets of it and flying it off to Korea. So that's available in the market there and you know, if you look on you know, I follow whatever old forester on Instagram and so I'll see a lot of these Instagram posts from Asia 49:46 as tax days when Yeah, exactly. Yeah. And then the kind of what you know, Campbell from, 49:53 from a historical perspective, that was very big for bourbon like I I'm glad to hear that. It in it. 50:00 was a success for you but from a category perspective, if you look back to the 1960s you know James Bond really started dictating what a lot of people would drink from a spirits perspective. You would start seeing people go to white spirits over brown spirits in large part because he wanted a martini shaken but not stirred. And so to see bourbon to continue to have this pop culture presence and madmen Boardwalk Empire the state's been that's a huge play for continuing to capture consumers are you will? Do you have a strategy, you know, to do more than just the statesman. I mean, are we going to start seeing you when 50:36 some TV series or anything like that? I mean, look, our strategy is like, be lucky. And and so I approached us about it. Yes. 50:48 So there's a show that just started I think on 50:52 Amazon called the Romanovs and so they reached out to us and they needed a, you know, a period type of a decanter. So 51:00 Grab them one of our old holiday decanters. And they use that in the TV show. I have not seen the show. But I mean, you know, you're always getting these types of opportunities. This movie came out recently called, like, father was like a huge hit on Netflix. And that movie has old forester in it and Woodford Reserve in it. And that was something that just came around because, you know, somebody knew somebody and they needed a, you know, some Bourbons for the scene and turned out that movie did really, really well on that Netflix platform. So a lot of people saw it and, and I think, yeah, you look for opportunities to do that all the time. It's a great tool. It's fairly inexpensive and it gives you a huge audience if it turns out to be a hit show or hit movie. Alright, so are you a movie buff by any means? I like movies. So if you were to do a movie tie in and have old forester being anything, what would it be past or present? Oh, gosh. Oh, good question, man. I mean, you already said Star Wars. So I don't think I'm 52:00 Lucy sitting there, oh, he's afraid that star wars are handled it. Like, you know, it's it's tough because movies I like are a little darker and so you don't always want your product feature 52:15 darkness 52:17 like like Unforgiven you know, okay, I love that movie, you know, but pretty dark, you know. And and so that that's a tough one. I mean, I look, I think it you know to me, jack daniels is the example of great products showing up in great scenes of great movies that are unforgettable. I mean, whether it's Animal House or any Paul Newman film, I mean, that that jack daniels is by these heroes and villains by their sides, and it's, they become it becomes part of the character and I so I think that's what's important that if you're going like we're with Matthew Vaughn and King's Men mean he really built a big portion of his movie, around the 53:00 idea of distillers from Kentucky. And that's pretty spectacular. I mean, each of the his characters were, you know, had a very specific trait and they were, you know, associated with a particular style or a whiskey or a tequila or whatever it was. And it made sense. I mean, the story when we got into the how we got old forester that was that is that he actually referenced as he was kind of given us the short stick on it that look, this is like 1919 pre prohibition and he goes on and fit in. So he finished his telling me the story. I was like, hey, look, you mentioned pre prohibition. Is that why? Why would you know about that? It's like, well, I just need something if these guy if the the agency was started in 1919, Kingsman, right, you know, on the heels of the First World War, you know, 53:50 that would have been around 1919 so have been pre prohibition. So I think you need to have this, like look, the brand new want to do it with that is old forester. We're the only brand that's been around before 54:00 During and after prohibition is like you're right, I'm going to do with old forester and so just fit his story and I think that's when these things work well, and it's something like that. I mean, do you have to 54:11 how does how does it work? are they paying you a royalty? Are you paying kind of like a get in any of that? 54:20 He's because he's not going away to expand the Ascot business. 54:25 By the way, 54:27 I did their main, the guy 54:31 who plays The Big Lebowski, what's his name? 54:34 is 54:36 Jeff Bridges he weren't asked God in the film. He was here for Derby. Who's the worst Fred minute this guy? 54:45 Is that you said there's only three people in the world. It's still women. Yeah. So now we got two of them. Got to find that third. Yeah. 54:51 Guys, some random winemaker in France. 54:55 And so there's kind of like one last question that we got to do and just part of the service of this is you 55:00 You know, you'd mentioned the history of this building and being able to be at the place where we're George had his own office and stuff like that. We're actually sitting in his office. Oh, can see that photo right there. That's him and whether 55:16 that's him sitting back there leaning in the chair. Oh, it's amazing. Is there a cool windows? Is that a Samsung or an iPhone? It's an iPhone. 55:24 I think it's a Canadian, Blackberry. 55:27 Pony Express. 55:29 But the how because I guess we everybody kind of wants to know is either I'm sure you've looked it up in the family tree like how far away You're moved from the gene pool of George himself. I'm George Garvin. 55:43 Fifth Generation fifth generation so as your great great, great grandfather, okay. Yeah. Now the internet. The funny thing is that So Mike is gonna want to swab your cheek later 55:54 on a test we're going around right now. So we're going to get the 23andme this done the 56:00 So my dad was a George Garvin brown the third. I was born in 67. 56:09 My grandfather, George Darren Brown, the second passed away in I think 69. And so my brother was born in July of 69. And he was named George Garber on the fourth. So you can imagine, as the eldest child, why, how come I didn't like Hamlet? 56:33 How come I don't get the loom? The Roman numeral, you know, and so you end up there. I mean, the reason was, is that I think it's a little distracting when you've got three gardens running around the same kind of household. And my grandfather just passed away and my my, you know, my mom, my dad had got my my brother and so that was a nice tribute to him. So yeah, we're so he's my great, great grandfather. real cool. Well, yeah, definitely a good story. And I want to say also 57:00 So thank you again for taking the opportunity in time to come on the show and tell us your story. The history. More about statesman. I think it was your favorite movie. Yeah, then yeah, yeah. So that movie was cinema, movie tickets, and then we'll go watch a deep dark mystery movie or something. I would like to say that I think old force would fit very nicely in the hustler. But yeah, was actually centered around a lot of bourbon. Oh, yeah. It wasn't here. He was a he was a wholesaler. Yeah. He was a wholesaler. And he was like a big he came down to Kentucky for tournament. Yeah, I'm getting hammered on JT is brown eight year old and it was eight year old bourbon that that drew him in. So it's a Seattle thing. For sure what a fit there. I was thinking like Lieutenant Dan in Forrest Gump would be a perfect fit. Yeah, I know that Lieutenant Dan needed rock get stuff. Yeah, he didn't want anything in quality. He just wanted to get hammered. Very true. Yeah, yeah, what do I know? I would just say like something like Jurassic Park, just like running through the rest of the fields at the bottom portion here and I can see it right. 58:00 Yeah something like yet the short Art Museum Park 58:07 Well, thank you i this is a lot of fun. I appreciate you guys having me always a pleasure. Absolutely. And you know people want to learn more about you they can Google apparently there, you know getting the Wikipedia and fix all the stuff that I was getting incorrect. I'm very nice if there's anything I mean Wikipedia. You'd be surprised most of what's good. Yeah. Most of it. 90% Yeah. But make sure you also you follow actually, you should come to the old forester distillery distilling company here downtown, go and take a tour. It's a great experience. They've got literally everything here. They've got bottling, they've got Cooper fridge, they've got distilling, they've got a barrel warehouse, you mean you name it, the lady salary? As you can see, get lit on fire. It's it's the coolest elevator experience you'll ever see. There's an elevator here at the old forester distillery that I would say rivals something Disney. It's a fantastic elevator ride. I'm going to say Charlie mention 59:00 aka flattery, something like that I was gonna rival that one too. I haven't seen that in a while. I mean, you know, it goes up it goes, maybe it goes in there like can have like, Charlie Chocolate Factory bourbon ball with old forester. We're thinking, now we're thinking. So make sure you go you check that out follow bourbon pursuit, as well as Fred Minnick on Facebook, Twitter and Instagram. And also, if you haven't done so yet, subscribe to bourbon plus, because there's a lot of great news stories that come out through their great magazine. It's thank you again, just great imagery and everything like that. But if you also like what you hear, support the show patreon.com slash bourbon pursuit, because without you the show, it would be very tough to keep going. So we want to say thank you, for everybody that helps support the show to do that, as well as all the questions. I mean, some of the questions we asked, are actually from some of the Patreon supporters out there today, all the show suggestions, questions, feedback, we've listened to you all, and we asked, so we really appreciate everyone listening and keep those comments. And, Fred, good to see you, man. Always a pleasure to see you. Thank you. So we'll see you next 1:00:00 Cheers Cheers.

The Kentucky Derby tradition has grown and changed over the past 145 years in Louisville, creating epic moments and memorable scenes for people. We hear from Hall of Fame trainer Bob Baffert, the Kentucky Derby Museum's Chris Goodlett and historian Emily Bingham, as well as Louisvillians who celebrate the Derby in their own unique ways.

We're accepting gently used dresses that Nu Yale will clean up, then you can get your hands on at Kentucky Derby Museum... but we dove down the wormhole of Kelly and Ben's prom story.

It's a tradition that has remained in the hands of the family for generations. Willett Distillery is one of the most recognized brands for bourbon enthusiasts and has accumulated a cult status. Even Kulsveen has seen the struggles and highs of his industry but had foresight to buy aged whiskey stocks when they were plentiful which put the spotlight on this brands. With Britt Kulsveen at the helm as their new President, this family is making bigger waves than before. Listen to their story as Fred Minnick moderates this Kentucky Derby Museum Legend Series. Sponsors: Sterling Cut Glass is the Official Glassware of Bourbon Pursuit. They are offering FREE etched samples to whiskey societies nationwide! Simply email spirits@sterlingcutglass.com, include your logo, and mention Bourbon Pursuit. Show Notes: This event is being moderated by Fred Minnick. This years theme is all about family Even, where did you grow up? Did you do a lot of ice fishing growing up? Did you ever fall through the ice? Talk about your time in the Merchant Marines What were your events in college sports? So we found out before we started that you're not an American citizen Britt, can you give us a story about your father's kindness? Even, was there a moment where you saw Britt in action and said she's got skills? Britt, is there a story behind you always wearing boots? Even, did you train Drew? What are you looking for in the barrels when you are creating your small batch composition? What is something that doesn't taste right? What was something you learned from Thompson Willett? Did he ever show you his secret spots in the warehouses? Talk about the Frosted Yeast Rolls. This is the High Corn Mashbill. Barrel entry at Even, How did you meet your wife? All the big brands were bailing out on bourbon, what was that time like? When did you come out with your small batch series? Did you ever travel to Russia in the 90s? Did you ever have trust issues with distributors there? Britt, what was it like as a kid watching your dad living around whiskey? Let's drink the wheated bourbon now. Entry Proof at 115 When Drew brings you something, do you ever turn it away and tell him its bad? You were also bottling stuff for a lot of other people back in the day. Can you talk about that? You had to acquire bourbon from other distilleries, what sort of other whiskey were you looking for? Was there is an age limit of something you wouldn't buy? Would your early batches include barrels from lots of different distilleries? What's your sweet spot for an aged bourbon? Lets taste the 6 year old Rye now, 51% Rye, 34% Corn, 15% barley, Barrel entry proof is 125, but now goes in at 110. Dipping back into the great barrels coming out during the early 2000s, how does this new stuff rank? We talked about the 80s and 90s, but Willett becomes really popular in the late 2000s. There are a lot of fans. Have you ever been a part of the fandom? How many times have you been asked to get bought out? Bill Thomas from Jack Rose has been a big supporter of Willett. Talk about the Willett 80th anniversary. It's the original Willett mashbill, 72% Corn, 13% Rye, 15% Barley and this one is bottled in bond There aren't many bad things to be said about your whiskey. Do you think it's harder to stay on top? Are there any other mashbills or barrel finishes you are working on?

What happens when a whole town shares a passion? A powerful energy is created and people move from near and far to participate. The Motivate Me! crew got to experience the high of this energy, just one day after the Kentucky Derby at the Kentucky Derby Museum. Is your hometown inspiring and exciting? If not, you can always go on the hunt for one that is! http://5ed.8db.myftpupload.com/

In this episode, we talk with Certified Farrier Bob Smith. He is the founder of Pacific Coast Horseshoeing School and has been shoeing horses as a professional farrier for more than 43 years. He was inducted into the International Horseshoeing Hall of Fame at the Kentucky Derby Museum in Louisville, KY in 2010. Bob has authored many articles published in leading equine magazines such as Practical Horseman, Dressage Today, and the American Farriers Journal. You'll get a lot out of this episode about how farriers learn, mistakes farriers should avoid when shoeing, and some hilarious and inspiring stories from Bob's career as a farrier and educator.

It's Fast Break Friday on The V Show! Mike Pratt joins Bobby V and they are live from The Kentucky Derby Museum. A little Derby talk and the two look at the idea that today's athletes are privileged and reminisce about how sports have changed over the years. It's Mike and Bob the stories come by the bushel!See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Second hour of Fast Break Friday on The V Show. Bob Valvano and Mike Pratt are live from The Kentucky Derby Museum. The two continue to look a little at the good ole ABA days, and also talk some NFL Draft, and listen to Coach Cal's 'Tread Mill Address'. NBC Sports' Kenny Rice also joins the program to talk some Derby, Draft , and even a little MMA! See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Final hour of The V Show of the week. Bobby V is at The Kentucky Derby Museum and is joined by HOF jockey Chris McCarron. The two talk Derby and look at McCarron's illustrious career. Then, Valvano looks at some of the NFL Draft stories and listens to some sound from Sheldon Rankins, Jared Goff, and Laremy Tunsil. Eric Brown director of sales and special events from The Kentucky Derby Museum then joins the program to highlight some of the great Derby events coming to Churchill Downs.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Fred Minnick captures whiskey in words and photos for Whisky Magazine, Whisky Advocate, and many freelance opportunities. He also writes for Parade, Scientific American, Covey Rise and others. Minnick’s latest release is Bourbon Curious: A Simple Tasting Guide for the Savvy Drinker, which hits bookshelves this month. Previously he wrote the critically acclaimed book “Whiskey Women”, which won ForeWord Reviews ’14 “Book of the Year” in Women’s Studies, while his Iraq War memoir “Camera Boy” became a Wall Street Journal bestseller. Minnick is a two time Pink Lady International Food Photographer of the Year finalist and is the Bourbon Authority for the Kentucky Derby Museum. He judges the San Francisco World Spirits Competition and the World Whisky Awards.

In Episode 45, we finally get to the Kentucky Derby Museum. We're looking forward to the Great Steamboat Race (and participating in it), the How To Festival, and ID-ing plants with Patricia Haragan.

DC resident and member of the audience of the Supreme Court Case in Heller vs. DC provides some personal observations. British Korean activist tells how he came to become a RKBA advocate, what he is doing on his Korean website (in Hangul) and plans in the future after seeing the light and reading George Orwell's "1984". Kenn provides some not-so-nice commentary at the end with a mix of country, and blues. NEED A ROOM for the NRA 137th Annual Meeting & Exhibits in Louisville, Kentucky, May 16-18? I have a non-smoking paid reservation at the Hilton Garden Inn The Hilton Garden Inn Louisville Airport hotel is at the airport corridor adjacent to the Kentucky Exposition Center where the convention is as well as Six Flags Kentucky Kingdom amusement park. Churchill downs, Kentucky Derby Museum, Papa Johns Stadium and the University of Louisville campus and Cardinal Park are. I can't go but will auction off my room to the highest bidder to raise money for the Urban Shooter site. You can email me, if interested.