Podcasts about brovember

Play Episode Listen Later Nov 12, 2022 26:36

Wyatt Mckinley, is a 27 year old Yoga Instructor and co-owner of Cup & Kettle Tea Company in Bloomington. He's had the opportunity to run his own yoga studio and travel to other countries teaching yoga. Wyatt never did yoga going up, but he often saw his mom practicing yoga, so when someone invited him to a 10 day meditation retreat in his early 20's, he decided to dive in and give it all a try. Listen in to hear how that retreat changed Wyatt's life journey and how yoga provides a social outlet where all are accepted for just the way they are. You can check out more from Wyatt...Instagram: @wyatt_kin Facebook: Kin YogaEmail: wyattmckinley07@gmail.comWebsite: kinyoga.net

marathon bloomington yoga instructor brovember

Brovember Marathon Interview With Jeff Newman

Play Episode Listen Later Nov 11, 2022 24:10

Our Brovember marathon continues with another one of my all time favorite fellas…Jeff Newman, a 61 year old Small Business Owner who grew up outside of Chicago playing sports and watching the White Sox play. A typical week for Jeff now includes; 3 Taekwondo classes, basketball three times a week, lifting weights every day and playing in a softball league…and about 7 years ago…he added yoga three times a week as well. Why would a guy who owns three motorcycles step into a class he grew up thinking was WAY too hippy dippy to ever try? And why would a guy who can break 4 inches of concrete slab with his bare hand feel like yoga is crucial to his fitness regime?! You will want to listen in and find out because Jeff is incredible. He is the kind of guy that would literally give the coat off his back to a stranger in need. Seriously. One morning I showed up to teach yoga class totally famished. I'd had such a hectic morning, that I had forgotten to eat or drink anything and I felt light headed. Jeff immediately went out to his car and grabbed a water bottle and protein bar for me. An act of kindness gesture I will always remember! I am so excited that y'all get to hear from him today.

chicago marathon chicago white sox small business owners taekwondo jeff newman brovember

Brovember Marathon Interview With Owen Brown

Play Episode Listen Later Nov 9, 2022 17:23

Owen Brown, is a Computer Aided Drafting Manager in his 40's, who grew up in a small town in Indiana hunting, fishing, hiking and playing a lot of sports until his back issues started to slow him down. Being a smart, goal-oriented and determined guy, Owen decided he wasn't going to let his back pain keep him from doing the things he loves.Looking for answers led him to doing yoga classes online from home. Years later, his girlfriend dragged this shy guy to his first in person class and he has never looked back. He now enjoys running marathons and working out at Crossfit gyms with zero knee or back pain and he says it is all thanks to yoga. Learn how doing yoga with the ones you love brings you even closer together.

indiana marathon crossfit owen brown brovember

Episode 40: The Brovember Marathon

Play Episode Listen Later Nov 8, 2022 25:59

"Brovember". It's a thing. And I didn't make it up. There are a lot of connotations with Brovember. One being that guys grow their facial hair to raise awareness and funds to support prostate cancer research. And another denotes a month dedicated to "guys doing guy things like football, hunting, fishing, grilling...and doing yoga..." that's right. It should be on there! And in honor of Brovember, I am hosting a Brovember marathon this week to raise awareness of how yoga benefits fellas!! Today, I will introduce you to a few guys I have had the honor of doing yoga with and then each subsequent day this week I will include the full interview with each one as part of "The Brovember Marathon" so you get all the incredible insights they have to share from their life experiences! 4 different decades, 4 different reasons why they started doing yoga and 4 different perspectives on why they keep doing it. Share it will all the bro's you know this Brovember!!Meet...Owen, a 40 something Computer Aided Drafting Manager, who grew up in a small town hunting, fishing, hiking and playing a lot of sports until his back issues started to slow him down.Jack, a 50 something Clinical Laboratory Scientist, who also grew up in a small town riding dirt bikes, playing sports and never heard about yoga until he was on a 100 mile bike ride with a bunch of guys after college.Jeff, a 60 something Small Business Owner, who grew up outside of Chicago and thought yoga was way too hippie dippie for him to ever try until he decided that taking his active physical regime to the next level needed to include dipping his toe in to try out something he never thought he would.Wyatt, a 20 something Yoga Instructor and co-owner of Cup & Kettle Tea Company in Bloomington, who decided to follow in his mom's footsteps and teach after a life changing experience at a meditation retreat. He is an avid runner, baker and has traveled to other countries to teach yoga.

chicago marathon small business owners bloomington yoga instructor brovember clinical laboratory scientist

Brovember Marathon Interview With Jack Bailey

Play Episode Listen Later Nov 8, 2022 22:25

Meet Jack Bailey, a 50 something Clinical Laboratory Scientist and father, who grew up in a small town riding dirt bikes and playing sports. Yoga first came on his radar when he was doing the “Hilly Hundred” bike ride in Brown County Indiana with a bunch of other guys after college. He's been practicing yoga off and on for over a decade and has been really consistent in his practice for the last few years. When he started practicing yoga he couldn't come close to touching his toes and now he can put his whole hand under his foot with ease. Jack sees yoga as not only a great cross training exercise for all the other activities he loves to do, but something that goes beyond the physical. Yoga has undeniably helped him deal with the depression and anxiety that has been a part of his life journey and he tries to do at least a quick ten minute routine every day.

yoga marathon brovember jack bailey clinical laboratory scientist brown county indiana

#142 Honouring Masculine Strength and Spirit with Aaron Schultz

Islanders Never Say Die Podcast

Play Episode Listen Later Nov 16, 2021 59:06

Today's episode is one of the most important conversations we've had on the podcast all year. In this first of our Brovember episodes, Mason chats with Aaron Schultz, the founder of Outback Mind, A mental health and wellbeing programme that helps men from regional Australia manage anxiety and develop the right skills to stay healthy in the body, mind, and spirit. Growing up in regional Australia himself, experiencing the downward spiral of mental health issues, unfulfillment, and toxic environments, Aaron knows first hand the challenges men can face. A healing journey ignited by an introduction to Buddhism and self-love, Aaron has spent the past 20 years building a career around helping men to become more conscious and connected to their true selves. Today, Aaron is a leading Anxiety Management teacher, meditation/yoga teacher, and a specialised mind/body coach, with a great ambition to help others; Particularly men from regional areas. Aaron works to bring about a level of consciousness and understanding to a whole collective of men, born into an environment where a natural trajectory is to work for the economy and serve the colonial system; With little to no cultural ideologies in place that nurture them connecting to their true purpose. His organisation, Outback Mind; Focuses on creating a culture and lifestyle that gives these men the tools and solid foundation needed to deal with emotions and realise their heart purpose. In this soul-centred conversation, Aaron talks a lot about untying the embedded emotion of fear in society. An emotional response instilled in most of us; Fear permeates the colonial structure and has become a default operating system for so many. Fear of judgment, being different, or being vulnerable inhibits a lot of men from discovering their true purpose and potential. This is a beautiful conversation about masculinity, vulnerability, and the destructive cultural ideologies placed upon men. Mason and Aaron dive into Men's holistic health, the changes we need to make in society so men can thrive, and why we can't wait for a system that's not serving us to bring about the changes we need. If we want to change, we have to activate it ourselves by supporting each other and our communities in the areas that matter. This episode honours the strength, spirit, and wellbeing of men and is a much larger conversation about humanity. Tune in. "It's so important to be able to give guidance and be strong within yourself so you can be a light to others, because that's really what the world needs right now more than ever. I believe my job here is to try and create light so these men can start to become more conscious and take autonomy within themselves". -Aaron Schultz Host and Guest discuss: Men's circles Yin Yoga for men. Men's mental health Self love and acceptance. Resources for a purposeful life. Processing anger in a healthy way. Learning from indigenous cultures. Using physical exercise to process anger. Compassion for ourselves and each other. The prison system as an industry to make money. Developing a relationship with the masculine and feminine. The power of daily routine for a purposeful and productive life. Getting in flow with the seasons, cycles and our circadian rhythm. Who is Aaron Schultz? Aaron Schultz is a leading anxiety management teacher, speaker, and private coach. He focuses on practical solutions to help individuals improve mental wellbeing and overcome anxiety. Aarons vision is to empower people to take a proactive approach to wellbeing, feel safe and supported, and become free of physical and mental illness by building healthy lifestyle behaviours that help individuals become self-aware, live more consciously, and thrive. Aaron is the founder of Outback Mind, a yoga, and meditation teacher (with over 5000 hours of practical teaching experience) specialising in Yin, Hatha, and Kundalini Yoga and transcendental meditation. Aaron also has extensive experience training individuals and groups in high-stress industries to manage anxiety in and out of the workplace. Aaron was recently awarded the People's Choice Award at the Queensland Men's Health Awards for his work creating a healthier future for men and boys. CLICK HERE TO LISTEN ON APPLE PODCAST Resources: Shen blend Cordyceps Deer Antler Ashwagandha Eucommia Bark Outback Mind website Outback Mind podcast Yin Yoga with Anatomist Paul Grilley Q: How Can I Support The SuperFeast Podcast? A: Tell all your friends and family and share online! We'd also love it if you could subscribe and review this podcast on iTunes. Or check us out on Stitcher, CastBox, iHeart RADIO:)! Plus we're on Spotify! Check Out The Transcript Here: Mason: (00:00) Aaron, thanks so much for joining me, mate. Aaron Schultz: (00:02) Pleasure, Mason. Thank you for having me. Mason: (00:03) Yeah, well, yeah, my pleasure. My pleasure. Good. Do you want to just like give everyone a little up to date, little download on what you're doing at the moment, where you're focused at the moment is, and what the grander vision is for yourself and likewise, Outback Mind. Aaron Schultz: (00:19) Yeah, thank you. I guess I come from a rural background in country Victoria. I was brought up traditionally, getting all the trauma that the education system sort of laid upon me, and that took me into poor lifestyle behaviours and believing what the TV told me. So, I started drinking and doing all the wrong things, and I disconnected from my real purpose and my soul pretty early because of the way society was sort of gearing me. So, sort of went into those poor lifestyle behaviours, and I knew underneath all that there was something greater, but I had to follow the breadcrumbs society had sort of laid out for me and worked hard, did all the things, bought the houses, and had the material stuff, and all that too. Aaron Schultz: (01:15) And yeah, basically ended up a bit of a mess in my thirties and had to redirect myself. But following that, I've sort of had a real vision to be able to help guys like myself from rural communities to be able to find out who they really are and follow that. Everyone's got something inside them that maybe they haven't had the courage to dive into. So, I've been able to help others through my own experience to fast track that basically by giving them some tools and some guidance and advice around following their true purpose in this lifetime, I guess, at the end of the day, and not having to go through all the shit that I went through, but that's also beautiful in its own essence because we do learn from that sort of stuff. But to be able to help a young man or to help someone get some direction, I think's my real purpose here, and to be able to explore all the beautiful things that humanity has to offer without going into all the negative stuff that takes us away from our true alignment at the end of the day. Mason: (02:27) With this young, colonised Australian culture that we've got here, I mean, especially in the tribe, what do you see as the biggest thing? You are a part of that culture, and you and others are emerging to fill these gaps that are allowing such big mental health challenges, or just generally not being able to get onto your purpose and everything that kind of comes with that. If you look overall at our culture, what do you think is the biggest thing that we're yearning for, or that's lacking, or there's a blockage around that's enabling all these things that you're solving? What's enabling it to become an issue to start with? Aaron Schultz: (03:11) Yeah, really. I always say to people "What are traps that are holding you back?" And it's primarily the underlying fact that is fear. We get put into fear early and that pretty much becomes our default. You always keep going back to fear all the time. But to be able to help people understand what helps them feel calm, I need to be able to create a culture and a lifestyle around that because that's really the heart purpose and the soul journey, I guess, at the end of the day which a lot of guys, including myself, never understood or don't understand, and I don't like seeing people go through the whole lifetime without having that connection. Aaron Schultz: (03:58) I think we've all got something within us which is our true purpose and our true calling. We've got a job here to do, many of us, and to be able to find what that is, to be able to direct your life around that I think's really, really important to be able to make it simple to people. I go back to my own sort of journey. I was sort of messed up in my thirties, and I went to a doctor, and all he wanted to do was tie me up in knots. But I basically just had to take direction for myself and then start to work on myself again and get back to that little boy that was never really nourished, I suppose, at the end of the day. Aaron Schultz: (04:35) So, that sort of resonates with guys when you talk to them because they sort of see that within them when you're done, and to be able to give them real-life experiences and stories about it but to do it vulnerably I think's really important. I was never courageous enough to be vulnerable about the way I felt as a human, come from a very judgemental environment which most rural communities are. It can be very much like that. And you touch on the colonial model. The colonial model is pretty much all about fear, force, and control, and ourselves are really penetrated with that early on. To be able to release that I think is really important. It's our birthright to feel that freedom, I guess, at the end of the day. Mason: (05:23) When you work, so especially, I mean this isn't just going to be rural community, but that's where you are predominantly working, when you're working in rural communities with the lads and you start looking at purposefulness, soul journey, I'm sure there's different for them, they resonate with different ways of the connecting with that, and talking about that, I'm sure you've got lots of ways of approaching, what's the outcome? Do you find that it's different where you go? Everything's going to be unique, but for some people, is that purposefulness something that's a big life goal? Are you seeing at the moment, is it just them dealing with some inner turmoil so that they can just do their job purposefully and enjoy where they're at? What do you see the biggest outcome of how they actually feel their purpose, and what does it look like? I'm just thinking for some blokes and women, but blokes that are listening that are like, "What is that?" Is that, all of a sudden, I know my purpose is ABC or how does it look? Aaron Schultz: (06:23) Yeah, yeah. Aaron Schultz: (06:25) Men are confused, to be perfectly honest to you. We're educated to support the economy really at the end of the day. We come out of school, we go into uni or work, and we sort of have lost that real connection with our true self. That takes us into poor lifestyle behaviours, getting into relationships which we aren't aligned with. Really, once you start to explain this to people in a men's circle or one on one or whatever it is, people start to actually realise that not so much that they're fucked up, but they've actually taken themselves away from their true alignment to be able to do what society's expected of them or what their community's expected of them, and I was very much like that. I was always trapped in this thing of what other people thought about me and a lot of guys are the same. Aaron Schultz: (07:21) They're very much at that entrapment of expectation of others. To be able to start to give them tools, to unpack that so they can feel safe within themselves because a man very, very rarely feels safe with who he actually is, to be able to develop a relationship with this masculine, feminine energy too, which took me a lot of work to be able to understand that as well, to be able to release anger, but then also to be comfortable with that anger too so you can develop a relationship with both sides of you and humanity, I guess, at the end of the day. But I think we have this lack of awareness within ourselves about who we truly are, and we're not just put in on this planet to be able to work, pay taxes, get a super, and die, and to be able to bring that back into real-time for people so they can start to work towards their true alignment. Aaron Schultz: (08:24) One thing that really changed me a few years ago was going and talking to old men at the end of their life about had they had a successful life and nine out of 10 said no because they were never able to reach not so much their potential, but who they really wanted to be and be able to follow their passions because of expectation of fear, judgement , all that type of stuff in these rural communities where I come from. So, that's been said to me. I'm not going to wait. I want to try and fulfil my life well and truly before then, but also to help others do the same. We've all got that ability within us. It's just about sort of untying the knots and the tangles to be able to get some structure on how we live our lives a bit more functionally and freely moving forward, I guess, yeah. Mason: (09:11) You brought up men's circles. It's an offering. It's an ancient happening. It's something logical, and to be honest, something I've been engaged in a lot, but have kind of just a bit, I think, steered clear of a little bit, while especially the Byron Bay scene kind of figures out without the political correctness, just open a space where you can truly explore what it is for you as a man, without dictating the outcomes and trying to say what a man is necessarily. But just how important are these, not just in rural communities, in metropolitan cities? Is this just a novelty, something we're doing in Bali and Byron? Just how important is this to the emerging and evolving culture of Australia and around the world? Aaron Schultz: (10:10) Yeah, and you think about it because I had a good core group of friends in primary school, right? It's just been high school, the egos and everything open up, right? You just become cynical, critical, judgemental, all those sorts of things, right? But at the end of the day, strip everything away, you've got a heart connection with your brotherhood, I guess. When you see the egos of others and their judgements and opinions of the mind and all those sort of things, but once you strip away that, all the work's got to be done in the privacy of their own heart. Aaron Schultz: (10:47) I start a men's circle with a meditation, and I take them on a journey for 11 minutes, and I stripped them away from big citation of the mind and all the things that are going on. We get back to this true purpose again. Okay. After that 10 minutes, we're de-escalated and we're right, and then we can start to open up about what's going on here. So, what I'll do is I'll talk, I'll bring a topic in. I'll pair people up. They'll go and talk about that topic, come back, then they're de-escalated even further. Then we go into a circle and we talk about what's going on in our lives to be able to unpack that and have that support of others as well. So, the vulnerability is the biggest thing for a man actually be able to be vulnerable. As I said, it was a tough thing for me. Aaron Schultz: (11:33) When new people come along, I'll talk about that sort of stuff so they actually feel safe. That's the thing with a man. We're in this protection mode consistently. We're in this fight and flight, this fight mode. Once we can be free of that protection and start to open up, that's when we can start to unload and start to unpack some of the challenges that we have going on within ourselves, and a great way to do that is to express that around other men, to be able to be vulnerable, but also to be able to tap into the feminine side which we don't understand, which can really help us create great levels of self-awareness at the end of the day which many of just don't have. Aaron Schultz: (12:13) As I said, we're constantly on chasing the bread crumbs and all the material things that society now thinks that we need to help us feel good. But once we sort of get away from that and start to talk about the way things are and the way things are going on with us, I just think we can start to be more conscious about the way we live our lives at the end of the day. Mason: (12:36) I mean, it is quite simple. It's amazing, but when you dip in, when you sink into that space, even just that intention, and you can just see. Sometimes, yes, whether it's a group of mates that we have, or if you have a partner, it's incredible to be able to be vulnerable to that partner and share. There's sometimes so much to unpack, it doesn't feel like it's overly appropriate for your lover to be that person that has to cop all of it and hold it, and that's the biggest thing. Having a group of men, strong men, men that can be soft as well just to feel supported in that, that you don't have to bottle it in to protect the people around you as well. Mason: (13:21) Then also, you mentioned anger. I think it went from that culture where men are just aggressive and angry to that's bad and that's toxic, and then to this point now where no, it needs to be felt. If you've bottled it up that long, it's going to be raging and wanting to come out, and to know that you're in a space of other men that understand it, and ideally a space where you feel you're not going to get judged for it, it feels, yeah, it's obviously very sacred. And just going through your website, I've just gone, "You know what? That's really something that could be healthy for me right now." Aaron Schultz: (14:01) Yeah, yeah. I appreciate that. I just share a bit about my own journey. I had these little traumas going on in my childhood which I've never dealt with, and that sort of took me into drinking and masking all that sort of stuff. When I hit 37, I was at the stage where I could take my life or I could change and move through that. So, I had that seesaw going on, and the easy thing was to go, "Okay, I've had enough of this. I'm out of here." And that's what happens to lot of guys. I lost my job and I felt worthless because I was attached to that title and that outcome, and yeah, as I said, I've never got to know myself. Aaron Schultz: (14:51) So, put my foot into the gym and fitness, and a lot of that anger came out with the fitness and lifting more and more chin-ups, and all that sort of stuff, and I went from an average body into a pretty strong, fit body, and all the accolades and everything that came with that. Then I started to win things, and then I started to do these unbelievable athletic pursuits. And I had this moment where I could have went further and went to America and done all this sort of great stuff, or I could have said to myself, "Okay, Aaron, you've done well here. You don't need to do that anymore." That's what I did. I didn't keep pushing. Aaron Schultz: (15:32) So, that took me into Buddhism, and Buddhism taught me to be kind to myself and be vulnerable. That's where the healing started to happen. With men, we'll keep pushing. That masculine side is very strong. That was the opportunity and the learning curve for me to be able to retreat from that, and then start to find that side of myself which had never been explored or never understood. To fast track things a bit, yin yoga was the thing for me which basically helped solve a lot of problems that I had because it just taught me to settle down, slow down, be accepting of myself, and then to be able to, yeah, learn how to use the body to settle the mind at the end of the day, to be able to develop a relationship with yin and the yang of life. Aaron Schultz: (16:32) So, if I hadn't kept pushing fitness, that would've pushed me into this yang space, and the ego would've been dominant. To be able to understand the ego and become teammates with the ego, rather than just living that mindset consistently because I think that's what a lot of us try to do. We just think we've got to be a performer consistently to be able to have the vulnerability which was very hard for me with yin yoga because my body was so tight and that. But over time, I just had to keep showing up, and now I teach others, but also, it's part of my daily practise to be able to use the yang and use the yin together and have that harmony to develop that neutrality, I guess, at the end of the day and a high level of awareness. Aaron Schultz: (17:22) Your mind, the way you are feeling on a basis changes, but if you can provide yourself with the practical tools to manage that better, I think you're not only going to be a better individual personally, but that's going to help spread light to others as well. Mason: (17:41) How does that go down when you... I know we were talking just before we jumped on the podcast and when you're working in the prison system. Are you still working in the prison systems? Aaron Schultz: (17:49) Oh, well not really. I don't work for the government, but I was going and teaching yoga in the prisons and doing some self-awareness training for prisoners. That may change now that we've got to be double jabbed so I'm not too sure about that one. Yeah. So, what we do is I'll just talk or the guy from WA will go and help guys come out, put them into a job, and then give them that pathway so they haven't got that vulnerability when they're out. The whole system is about bringing people from punishment or trauma, giving them more punishment, and then they're on their own when they get out. That doesn't work. We actually are able to go in, help identify the right people to match them up with the right employer, give them stability, but my role is to be able to keep them self-aware through mindfulness practises before they're released, so they come out and they've got a daily practise they can tap into so they can keep their job, don't get caught up with all the old belief systems and stay on track. Aaron Schultz: (18:54) So, we don't get funding for any of this. We're trying to create something here which is going to help humanity in many ways, and that's something I'm really passionate about. That's primarily helping guys that have got lots of issues. We're punishing people consistently for trauma that's not their fault. To be able to help guys identify that, to help them feel safe, and it's okay, they can start to rebuild their lives again, this is something that's groundbreaking, that hasn't been explored before. So, to be able to take a young 25-year-old that's had a terrible life to help them reinvert that or a 55-year-old which has had this constant cycle of incarceration to be able to feel sacred in themselves, to learn some of the life skills which can keep them balanced is really beautiful at the end of the day because everyone's got a purpose in this lifetime and be able to help them become more stable and self-aware about their emotions, I think it's really important, and that's something that I want to try and do more of over the next period. Aaron Schultz: (20:06) But I've got higher things that I want to do later on. It's just the stepping stone, and I keep getting downloads about this when I do my meditation in the morning that this is my journey and this is my purpose for this time. So, trying to be true to that, I guess, at the end of the day, rather than chasing money and all those sorts of things because I think if you're working in alignment with yourself, then everything else will take care of itself. Mason: (20:33) What do you see is the biggest consequence here with the trauma? Obviously, the same is happening in various ways for women, but sticking to men, this lack of capacity or want or willingness or ability of our culture, the system, especially the corporate system to identify with a lack of initiations, a lack of support to identify traumas, having men being comfortable in themselves, what's the biggest... When you look at our country and our world, what do you see is the consequences that are rolling out of this being the case of us having this unwillingness and deficiency to support men to get in touch and on that path? Aaron Schultz: (21:19) Yeah, yeah. Yeah, look, I just think that the whole system is working against this at the end of the day. You say, for example, that someone is experiencing self-doubt consistently. Well, as soon as they drive around a corner, they're seeing a billboard to drink beer. It's going around the other side, they're seeing a billboard to eat junk food, all this type of stuff. So, we're getting mixed messages consistently. Your body is smarter than you. Your body's always trying to give you the truth, but we're blocking that consistently because of the domination of the mind. We haven't been taught how to read what's going on below the shoulders and the message that that's consistently sending us. Aaron Schultz: (22:06) So, yeah, to be able to find ease within yourself and ease with that trauma, some of the things that have held you back, this has happened for a reason, whether it be good or bad, and then to be able to accept that, and self-acceptance is such a hard thing because we are so geared to keep consistently beating ourselves up. We're consistently beating ourselves up, and I have that issue, not so much now, but I know it pops in every now and then. That is not a bad thing because it's there to protect me and keep driving me in some ways, but sometimes I really need to recheck myself and be kind to myself at the end of the day, and that's a skill that we're lost that ability to be able to nurture ourselves and be kind of to ourselves I think's so important because we've got the foot on the pedal consistently where we're not actually taking that off. Aaron Schultz: (23:03) So, yeah, to be able to dive into some of those traumas, through my meditation practise now, I'll go into some things that happened to me when I was younger which gave me trauma, and then I'll be able to say thank you to that because it actually helps me move forward. That's a big thing for a guy that's new to this sort of stuff to learn, but you can give them simple things that actually help them on a journey of self-acceptance, then all of a sudden, they're on a pathway to transformation rather than being stuck in the old patterns all the time, if that makes sense. Mason: (23:39) I mean, it completely makes sense. I mean, it's funny. I know I can go really sinister right now and talk about the motives of a keeping a culture this way and keeping everyone kind of huddled down, and kind of like a commodity, as long as they're just designed and as long as it's all working to design, just working, being in the workforce, and doesn't matter. We can deal with all the issues. And then you add the confusion of there's a lot, and some of it kind of rightfully, some that's gone absolutely too far is the bastardization of men and masculinity kind of thrown in there at the moment, and I'm not sure what your position is around this. It's something that's been obviously going on for years and super prevalent at the moment. Mason: (24:29) I'm just saying with that perfect storm, for the efficiency's sake, for the resources's sake of our country and our culture, it makes complete sense to put energy in into this, and I guess I can just say for people listening as well, I get the sinister intentions and also get the fact that you're looking, I don't know, looking through the matrix and being like... Even if you guys can't see that this is the greatest thing to bring love, getting people on purpose, men on purpose, better for families, better for women, better for everyone yet you're fighting for funding. Mason: (25:08) I mean, it always perplexes me, but then it doesn't because I go, "I know if I can have a..." I don't know why it's surprising, but it does still. It's baffling because the yield of benefit from... You imagine rolling out what they've done with PCR testing and vaccination, what they've done in such a small amount of time, if they rolled out with half of that, a quarter of that resource and intention towards let's get everyone properly rehabilitated, feeling purposeful, and getting over the traumas, the amount of efficiency that would be put into our culture, the amount of stress that would come off our medical system from all these mental health... Suicide comes off. All of a sudden, you got all the stress that goes into families when that happens. It really kind of brings it. It makes me really quite emotional. With the work you're doing, I'm sure you feel the gravity of it. Just how much, the utopia, that we're knocking on the door of? Aaron Schultz: (26:20) I don't get angry about it. I see with compassion because I know there's such a better way. So, the whole government model is keeping people DDC which is dumb, docile, and compliant. Right? The whole system is around keeping people unhealthy because it's good for the economy. We've actually fucking become topsy-turvy here with the way that we really should be directing humanity. You're right. Giving people the tools and skills to be able to deal with those things rather than pushing it the other way is really the key to that. Aaron Schultz: (26:54) Now, I believe that there's going to be a moment in time over the next, maybe 10, 20 years where there will be a real shift. We can't keep going down this role of basically pushing people away from what we're meant to be doing here as humans. You think about it. At the end of the day, it's only been the last 20, 30, 40 years that we've had so much domination. People were living in those days where they were sharing. Things were much more aligned with the way we're meant to be functioning here as humans, but they've taken away our vegetable gardens, our fruit trees, all those sorts of things to direct us to go to the supermarket. Convenient has become so much more common these days because really, at the end of the day, what it is mostly is it's the economical support and stimulus that goes with it. Aaron Schultz: (27:49) So, if you look at a person that's incarcerated, that's an industry. The prisons have become an industry. The junk food has become an industry. All these different things have popped up. When I was a young fellow, pubs closed at 10 o'clock. Now, they're free for all because they realise they can keep more people employed. There's emergency services that are going to be employed to compliment all the pisspots, all those sorts of things. So, keeping people mentally unbalanced and physically unwell has become an industry, an entity of its own so that's continually stimulating the economy. But you're right, the counterbalance that is to be able to create a wellness culture which is going to be so much more beneficial at the end of the day, they can't see that at that level. The whole draconian thinking and the draconian model is really wrong. Aaron Schultz: (28:45) My job here and I believe your job here is to try and create light so people can start to become more conscious and take autonomy within themselves so they can actually start to think, "Well, maybe what I've been fed is bullshit. Now, I'm going to put some decent fertiliser onto my body, and around me that's going to help nourish me," rather than sort of punishment at the end of the day because we're really directed into a world now of self-punishment. Most people are feeling like a shithouse on a daily basis, physically and mentally, and that's the only way that they know. So, where I live, there's a coffee cart. People are lining up there consistently to get their energy. I'm going down and I'm doing meditation on the beach and getting energy from the earth and the sun. People don't see that because the TV's telling them to go and get their fill of coffee, and then at the end of the day, drink beer to find that balance, and I was brought up in that. Aaron Schultz: (29:42) So, I understand what it's like, but I see that with compassion. I see these people that are making decisions with compassion. I spend time in Parliament House in Canberra, and I've been around the government, and I understand how it all works. I have people that are in fairly high-level roles come to me consistently because they're actually empty and lost with themselves. They're putting energy into all the stuff that they think is real and right, but at the end of the day, it's taking away from their true alignment, and I don't want to see them get to the end of their lives and think what if. We can actually create a culture of self-autonomy and well-being now for them. That's why it's so important to be able to give guidance and be strong within yourself so you can be a light to others because that's really what the world needs right now more than ever. Mason: (30:38) I mean, you brought up again, getting to the end of your life, whether or not there's regret or whatever. I always like to sprinkle in that it's going to be diverse, I imagine very diverse in terms of little regrets and tweaks, or was I on track or not. It's not just black and white. But I was just thinking, for everyone listening, especially the boys listening, tracking to the end of their life which I think you've been with your meditation practise. I'm sure there's a lot of work in acknowledging your death and the impermanence, and I always find that most of the time, ultimately, my most rewarding and favourite part of my own inner practise is facing my own mortality and always going into that darkness and seeing what emerges. Mason: (31:32) But I always love thinking about that, either that deathbed or my 80-year-old self, and using that as a lighthouse, and that always gives me insights, and can I map somewhat or an understanding of the terrain. Well, I can feel it. I can feel the terrain and how many things are going to change in all those years. For you in your work, for the guys listening, when they think about themselves kind of on that deathbed, or when they're an elder, hopefully an elder, and they're tracking back, what resources would you recommend for them to have in place which would be the fertiliser to give the capacity for that rich garden of a purposeful life to come about? Aaron Schultz: (32:15) Absolutely. Look, we're only on this journey in this body for a period of time, but primarily, if you can keep yourself in routine on a daily basis, you will not age. Physically, you may change, but mentally and spiritually, you will stay coherent. So, to be able to utilise a physical body in a manner where it's being nourished on a daily basis, externally by movement, those types of things, to be able to nourish it with the right nutrients externally that come into the body to be able to help it survive and thrive really well. Aaron Schultz: (32:57) But also, to be conscious and connected to nature and all the things that are beyond that, I think that that will hold you in high regard so you don't leave this life feeling unfulfilled because every day for me is an opportunity to have an opportunity that I've ever had before and I've got to remind myself consistently that every day has been different, and I'm grateful for the days that have gone before because yeah, once you've got that, you will not have any regrets, and every opportunity, every moment is unique, and it's something that we've actually become disconnected with because we're so dominated by the mind and what we think is real. Aaron Schultz: (33:45) Humans are the only creatures on this planet which are working away from our alignment. Look around at everything else and they know what they're doing. They're sourcing the food. They're doing all the things that nature intended and provided for them, but humans have become disconnected and lost from that. There's so much we can learn from our indigenous cultures that can give us that connection again. You and I are on this land through other entities, by people that have come from other lands that have come here and created us so we've actually lost a sense of purpose as men as well because we haven't got that connection with something. Aaron Schultz: (34:27) I've learned so much of indigenous people from when I was a young boy, but to also what I'm doing now to be able to really connect and learn from them, and I'm helping indigenous guys connect back to their culture because that's the most powerful gift that they could have while they're in these bodies in these times primarily at the end of the day because that is human, isn't it? You know where you're living, you're living in a community, you're sharing, you're in a tribe, all that type of stuff. This is what I believe we're meant to be doing as humans. We're actually just lost touch with that at the end of the day. To be able to be grounded on a daily basis is so important. Mason: (35:06) Yeah, I think it's kind of one of those things. I've done a few podcasts lately with some... I just did one with Jost. So, I don't know if Jost from- Aaron Schultz: (35:17) No. Mason: (35:17) He's a German Daoist and acupuncturist and can go in all kinds of direction. And again, in this podcast, we just came back to sleep in terms of the ultimate thing to bring that armour in terms of what's going on in the world at the moment and love. It's so often, and that racing part of my mind is like, "All right. So, what's that thing?" And asking you that question, you're like, "All right," that consistency through your day, that routine through your day so that you're grounded. It just landed again. I've tightened it up so much this year, and I'm one of those people that I'm like, "Oh no," if I've got that scheduled dialled and I'm refining it and it's all scheduled and locked in, it means I'm not free, and I've got that little Peter Pan syndrome kind of going on. Mason: (36:03) But I've just watched what happened to my mental health this year when I just dialled in to that calendar and not really respecting, when I have a meeting, respecting the clock, respecting that I've put that in my schedule for a reason, and keep on refining, don't get down on myself. I can't believe what's happened to my mental health and stability just through that, with movement, with breathwork, with meditation. And again, I'm one that stumbles a lot in that and it quite often doesn't go well, but then just to not give up and just remember, that is the key. You've just given us that that's the key for when you're an old codger. That's what will get you feeling really purposeful when you get there. I find that potent. Aaron Schultz: (36:48) Yeah, absolutely. It's called [inaudible 00:36:53] on a daily basis if you can do something for 10% of your day. I like to do it early in the morning so you can get connected. If you can have a practise every morning which grounds you, then you get rid of all the uncertainty, the fears, the worries, all that sort of stuff, and get back to okay, this is what it's all about, and then you start to live more from your heart. Yeah, I just think that is ancient wisdom which is much needed in modern times. All the ancient traditions talk about it. And in Kundalini yoga, we talk about juts, so just repeat. You repeat on a daily basis., you've got that foundation for your life. It's so important. It's so easy to get up in the morning and go to the coffee machine and get stimulated straightaway. The average man's going to the TV or the radio, and they're putting the fear in the first five minutes of their day, But if you can say, "No, I'm disconnecting from that. I'm going to do something which nourishes myself." That's turning inward primarily to be able to connect. Aaron Schultz: (37:56) Physical movement is a great way of doing that. I had to do it through fitness to really push my body and learn to connect with myself again. But really, that took me into meditation. It took me into okay, now I've got rid of all my anger, now I can be still. That stillness, it's come from yin yoga now to be able to help the mindset also. I used to be really rigid on a daily basis with regards to what I had to do, but now I wake up and I have all these tools that I can use. So, I wake up and okay, this is how I feel. This is what I'm going to do, and my practise every morning goes for a couple of hours or more, depending on what's happening on that particular day. But that's my rock and my foundation that I've worked on over the last sort of 10 or 12 years. Aaron Schultz: (38:48) It's a journey because most guys, they want to get to the end of the marathon before they start. The whole thing is to be really in love with the journey. Don't worry about the outcome. Really be in love with the journey and what's happening because every day is unique, and it's a new opportunity to learn about yourself and others. You've got new experiences going on in your day on a daily basis. So, to be able to be in love with that, rather than the outcome, we're so attached to the outcome. I want the beautiful wife. I want this and that and the other, but just be in mind and love with yourself and work within your own truth, and everything else will take care of itself I guess at the end of the day. Mason: (39:35) And quite often, I mean, in my experience, it's still those things which you perceive to be superficial in terms of your wanting. They're still there. They are created in your life with substance. Beautiful partner, the ability to get on purpose, get some cash in the bank, build some assets, maybe be a provider, maybe not fall into... Whatever it is, it's still that superficial stuff. From what I could see, it's still there. It's just got something in the middle of it. Aaron Schultz: (40:09) Oh, a hundred percent. It's really interesting. I'm not huge with social media, but I have these memory popups come up, right? And what I was doing three years ago, five years ago, eight years ago, it's amazing. This is one thing that we don't understand as men, right? I believe that we have this cyclic thing going on within us that we're actually engaged in this type of stuff at particular times of the year. I looked at these popups that have been coming out recently. They're exactly how I'm feeling now. These are just reminders of what's happened at the same time throughout a year in years gone. So, these seasons and cycles that we're going through, we actually don't have any awareness and consciousness around that to be able to be in alignment with that. Aaron Schultz: (41:00) I think that is something that's really powerful and next level with regards to reaching our potential as humans, but also to be able to be more responsive and conscious of what's going on within our lives at any particular moment throughout the calendar year or whatever that may be. It's been a real light bulb for me to actually observe that. That's been a gift as a reminder to show me those sorts of things. And when your emotions and so forth are out of check, it's usually probably a lot to do with what's going on in nature which we don't really understand that much. The mental health industry doesn't probably understand that much about either because it's all about interventions rather than proactive solutions I guess at the end of the day. Aaron Schultz: (41:50) So, they're the things I want to try and help people understand. Maybe you're feeling like this because of this reason. How many men know about moon cycles and how that works? None. That's the feminine side of them that they don't want to have anything to do with, but if we could start to educate guys more about this sort of stuff, and how this might be affecting their sleep and their circadian rhythm, and all those types of things which we're unconscious of, I think that's really, really important. That's how we can start to be proactive about mental health rather than being reactive like the whole model is currently because that model is about making money out of people. Mason: (42:34) Isn't it just? So, you've just touched a lot on circadian rhythm connecting to the land. Something I've been, yeah, saying for a few years now is that it's just very obvious and has been obvious for many people for a long time, and there's somewhat many diversions, but there's especially a diversion. I can see a diversion in the genetics and the way that people want to live right now. One I see is those communities wanting to keep at least a foot but two feet grounded on the earth, and then those that I think I kind of see more going up into the cloud, and wanting to plug into a smart city in a technological way of living that doesn't abide by any connection to nature and circadian rhythm. Mason: (43:20) I mean, we don't have too much longer. I'm sure you've got some resource, or if you want to quickly share your practises for staying tuned in to that natural rhythm so that you can stay tuned into reality, and maybe the reality of what's going on with you. But I also just wanted to touch, and you mentioned mob indigenous culture, any indigenous lads listening, you've already recommended, it's the number one thing. It's kind of in the faces, connect back to culture, connect back to the song and your dance and language. For the Western lads listening because I kind of find it still a little bit icky around here in terms of still a little bit of spiritual just taking of indigenous culture. Mason: (44:08) Have you got recommendations or just a reminder of how we can also, through connecting with the land, also connect or respect or learn about indigenous culture in a way that... It's energetically. You can feel it's still like a hive there. There's karmic stuff there. Obviously, there's a lot of developing and forming that energetic relationship where we're living harmoniously together. It's still unravelling. Have you got any tips for guys to how approach it, how approach that? Aaron Schultz: (44:43) Yeah, definitely. A lot of us have had no connection with spirituality because it's combined with religion, and a lot of us have had religious trauma. So, a lot of this stuff that we believed was right about connection is probably not really filling us anymore. So, to be able to, I wouldn't say disregard that, but just to let go of that now what your beliefs probably were, to be able to be more aware of the universal consciousness is key. What's in this life and what's beyond this life is taking your awareness and dimension to another level. Aaron Schultz: (45:26) And for me, that came from pushing my body really hard and going running early in the morning before the sun come up because I had no noise. It was no life. All you heard or all you saw was the sky and silence. So, I'd go running at 4:00 in the morning, and lot of the ancient traditions talk about the ambrosial hours as being the best time to connect with yourself because you've got no domination from anything. Yeah, so for me as an individual, it was actually using that time in the day to get grounded. You hear a kookaburra wake up at five o'clock, and then all of a sudden, life starts to evolve. You start to realise that life's so much bigger than yourself, once you actually have got that time for connection. Aaron Schultz: (46:18) So yeah, if anyone's wanting to challenge themselves, let's say get up in the ambrosial hours. Get outside. Do some meditation, whatever it may be. Get connected with the land somehow so that it can actually give you an appreciation of the gift that we've actually in this lifetime. To be human in this lifetime's a pretty unique opportunity and a unique gift. As I mentioned before, we're going about life incoherently to what was really expected of us or what we're meant to be doing here. So, to be able to connect with the fundamental things I think are really key because that'll keep you grounded on a daily basis, and once you've got that foundation, then the rest of your life will evolve around that. Aaron Schultz: (47:04) We have this innate connection with ourselves, but also humanity. Once you start to get out of the lower levels of consciousness of fear, shame, guilt, greed, and get into the higher levels of consciousness of gratitude, love, kindness, compassion, all those sorts of things, if you can start to tune into those sorts of things on a daily basis early, then that will spread, and you'll have that connection with yourself but also connection with others as well. I think that's really key, and they're the skills that we don't know as men, we don't understand as men because we've been pushed the other way to be sort of in those lower levels of consciousness of society, as I mentioned. Aaron Schultz: (47:45) But we think that happiness comes from greed and all those sorts of things where really the happiness comes from love and kindness and compassion and all the things that we're meant to be doing here as humans. We're not meant to be in fear all the time. It's a small part of our life, rather being a major part of our life. That fear's here protect us occasionally, but we're not meant to be living in it consistently. So, use the time you have early in the morning if you can to be able to become connected to what's really important. Then, you do this consistently, and over time, you'll develop these habits which become part of your foundation, part of your strength moving forward. Mason: (48:26) I love it, man. The little simple reminders that are just how profound the outcomes are there. It's just a beautiful, beautiful reminder. Aaron Schultz: (48:38) Yeah. Mason: (48:39) For everyone listening. I mean, outbackmind.com.au is your website. Where are you currently at with your offerings and how people can engage with you, besides your podcast, Outback Mind podcast, is that right? Yeah. Aaron Schultz: (48:55) Yeah. You know, mate, there's not much really. It's something I'm not really strong at. I probably need to be able to do more in this space to offer up things for people. So, really at the moment, we're trying to set up the Outback Minds and foundation side to be not for profit. What we want to do, I've got a friend here that's helping set up a training platform. So, we want to be able to develop men's circles in regional communities throughout all Australia to be able to train guys in those communities so they can run these heart-based circles of men's circles for many years. And I ran them in Victoria and Tassie, and a lot of them are very ego-driven. It's very much in the masculine which is okay, but I just think if we can actually start to build capacity for people through these things, rather than using it as a tool to get things off our chest, to actually be okay to explore what's been going on with their own lives, but also to be able to build our capacity, and that helps us as a man, but also helps us as a family member and members of our community at the end of the day, and that's a proactive way that we approach mental wellbeing, I guess, to be able to provide people with tools. Aaron Schultz: (50:09) So, yeah, I bring meditation. I bring yin yoga into the men's circles. So, to be able to train guys with some of the simple tools on how to do this, and that I think's really important to be proactive in that space, yeah, so to do that. And I guess I want to get out into regional communities and talk more, try and get into places where they don't have access to great advice or help. The online stuff's been really good for that, but hopefully, once things open up more, I can get out and start to connect with more people out there. Aaron Schultz: (50:51) Yeah, as I mentioned to you earlier, my real vision is to be able to set up a Vipassanā centre where I can help people come and be still inside for three and 10-day retreats so they can reconnect with themselves because I believe that's a functional thing for humans. It's just to be silent and still for parts of our year. If we can do that twice, three times a year, that's got to be good for our mental wellbeing. We've got to be able to give our mind a rest, and the mind isn't king here. The heart is king. If you can reconnect with the heart, that's really what it's all about. That's how we can improvements health in Australia rather than be too dominated by what's going on above the shoulders. Mason: (51:30) I love it, man, and I love your work. Encourage everyone to go and at least subscribe to the podcast, stay tuned in on that way, and yeah, it looks like you've got lots of things kind of planned. I can see there's little life experience, adventures there, and workplace wellbeing, all kinds of things. So, yeah, exciting to see the rollout. Aaron Schultz: (51:51) Yeah. That's the other thing. The workplace has got such a strong opportunity to be able to help people. We're not just going there to get a paycheck. I want to try and engage more with more of our better employers that are ethical to be able to help people, particularly men in their workplace to feel safe, feel secure, feel supported and really valued in the workplace because that's a problem that a trap we've had as humans is to be able to use people by paying them money, but not really give them any care and support, and that's a huge problem with regards to understanding ourselves and our mental health because if we're not feeling good about ourselves in the workplace, then we take that home with us and that creates issues with domestic violence and drinking, and all that sorts of things. Aaron Schultz: (52:45) So I just think the more employers that I can engage with to be able to help builds a culture I think's really important. My background, I ran labour hire companies. So, I worked with lots of organisations and industries throughout Australia, and I didn't see many employers that were doing it well. So, now, starting to connect with more employers and give them platforms on how to be able to develop a culture which is coherent in the workplace and starting their day with meditation, and all these sorts of things so people can feel grounded before they start their work, rather than just going there, and working to lunchtime, and then going and finishing their day off just to get home, but you actually feel part of something I think's really important. That's [crosstalk 00:53:33] improved capacity for sure. Mason: (53:36) Yeah. Integrating the workplace back into cultivating a society and a culture that isn't just... Yeah. It's a funny dynamic. I'm an employer, and the amount of energy that needs to go in at each new evolution of the business, all of a sudden, it's not the same as when you were just a small little crew where all your values and these principles just seem automatically known. There needs to start being an unravelling of some structure so that there can be that flow of humanity and that flow of purposefulness, and there needs to be little checks in place. It needs to be integrated into a HR department. For a lot of people, it's beyond what they can handle. I don't endorse it, but I definitely can see how companies get to that point, and they go, "You know what? There's no actual cultural requirement of me to do this. So I'm just going to go to the efficiency route or the easiest route and just do the whatever culture thing." And you just end up using people. It's crazy. Aaron Schultz: (54:48) Yeah. That's what it's all about. The whole model to do with MBA and human resources, and that's really about what can you get out of people, all the fear you can put into them, all that type of stuff. Oh, there's an EAP at the end of that. If we fuck them up. I'm saying organisations, and I have been for years, that is a last resort. You've got to be really proactive rather than reactive. If you're fair dinkum about what you're doing, if you can look after people, the results will take care of itself. Aaron Schultz: (55:17) It's the same as with our wellbeing. If we can show up at a value basis as individuals and do things which nourishes, then the results will take care of itself. So, don't worry about the outcome. You worry about the journey. Help people on the journey and then things will evolve. That's where I believe at sports clubs. I've done a lot of work with sports clubs as well to be able to help them become successful, but not worrying about the outcome. If this is the process that we've got to do, so you can start to tune in with what's really real here, and enjoy the process of the journey rather than the outcome at the end of the day. Aaron Schultz: (55:51) I've worked for businesses. It's all about KPIs and budgets and all that type of stuff. If people are really in flow and intuitive and enjoying what they're doing, then everything will take care of itself because they're engaged, and the output is significant that way rather than sort of worrying about the results so much, you know? Mason: (56:13) Yeah, and what I've experienced is when the culture is put in place, all of a sudden, something like a KPI or a budget doesn't have that disciplinary... This is a very hard line. To have optics through the business, like a KPI, have them available so that everyone in the team can see what's going on in other departments and for the benefit of the person who's in that, say, my position as a CEO to have those things be present and then to have it entrenched, not just say it, but so it's felt this isn't about making me wrong or bad. This is genuine feedback loop and genuine neurofeedback so that I'm aware of what my team is doing. I'm aware of whether I'm in a place where I'm flowing or not. Mason: (57:07) And if, this is the hard one, if there's enough trust that you're not getting in trouble, but if there's something starts not going well, it's really great for us to know it so that we can all rally and be like, "What's happening here? Do you need some support?" It seems simple, but my goodness, it's a bit of a difficult task, I think just because we're all so programmed to be like, "I'm being judged. If I don't get the answer right, I'm marked wrong, and I don't get given other opportunities." It's a pretty insidious little parasite of the culture. Aaron Schultz: (57:54) Get excited, and if you can get rid of that competition or that competitive nature, and give back more compassion, that's where you can grow. I've worked with business. It's all about achievements on a monthly basis and you're competing against others and all those sorts of things. It's really wrong. Yeah, being able be supportive and nourishing of yourself and nourishing your others, I think that's work. Mason: (58:17) Because when you don't enlist them, them, me, people, whatever in competition, for me, this competitiveness from this jovial place and this playful place, and often, quite a serious place for me, I can drop into the gravity of which I enjoy around, look, in terms of my life vision, this is what's actually on the cards right now in terms of whether I get this project done in time or not. I've only got a certain amount of time here, but that's an emergence, that competitive charge. I'm not trying to beat down anyone else. That's something I think we've got wrong. We try and project something which is going to get us the result, like competition onto a company structure which then brings about reprimanding kind of culture, therefore for fear verse hey, it's really takes a lot of vulnerability to get this feedback and be vulnerable to your team and how you're performing and how you're doing. Mason: (59:15) But if you come from a place of trust and you give trust willingly or have conversations to get yourself there to where you give trust, all of a sudden, that natural and organic, that's the fertiliser, then that competitive edge, appropriate for you and your nervous system, can rise up and then go back down as well when it starts getting a little unhealthy. It's a hell of a thing, business culture. I'm aware of the time though. I think we'll go on with this for ages. Aaron Schultz: (59:46) Just remember, it's a friendly universe and everything's trying to work for us, not against us. If we can just work with that, the flow of everything, then everything will be okay, will take care of itself. When we're forcing where we're getting forced against and that's what competition does, it really does put us into a short-term fix, but really the long-term outcome is not great, but the more you can be able to work with the universal charge, if you've got a product, you let products go without any attachment. You've got something great. You're not producing it because you want to get these outcomes. You're producing because it's something which is going to help people. If you've got that belief, that energy goes into that product, and then it goes out and expands. Mason: (01:00:40) Yeah. That faith, I mean, I've got a bit of trauma around religion, going to a Catholic school as well, but then when I've reconnected to the natural state of faith for me versus institutional faith, as you said, I'm like, "Oh wow. What freedom." I've got an intention and I trust my intention around herbs and education, and I'm sure you have the same experience, and watch it open up as long as you give it... When you keep on turning up and staying consistent within it. Yeah. It's fun. It is fun. It's a great reminder. And I love your work. I really appreciate you coming on and chatting to all of us during Brovember. Aaron Schultz: (01:01:26) Thank you, mate. I've given a listen to it and we really appreciate what you've done and what you've created here and the great products that you have. I've only started using Mason's Mushrooms and I'm not consistent. I'm only using them every few days. Maybe I need to have it more up, but I like it with cold water rather than hot. Mason: (01:01:46) In a smoothie. You got the tropical fruit up there I think coming on at the moment. Yeah, it's all good, goes with it. Whatever, a bit of mango, a bit of mango sorbet. Aaron Schultz: (01:01:57) They'll be out in a couple months so I be into there, I reckon for sure. So, appreciate it. Mason: (01:02:00) Yeah, well, yeah. It is that consistency with the mushies and the tonic herbs and even do a little bit more than you think you should be doing. Go up the dose a little bit. With your meditation practise, You'll definitely have a greater capacity for the dose. Aaron Schultz: (01:02:18) Yeah. Yeah, awesome, mate. I appreciate that. I haven't used any drugs for 25 years, marijuana, or any of that sort of stuff. I've never used magic mushrooms and everyone else around the same seems to. Yeah, this sort of stuff is new to me. I was a raw vegan guy for a long time. So, I know it's like to feel dialled in. It felt amazing consistently, but I just couldn't get the product to keep myself sustained. So, I have to find different things now that can help me, I give it a stab. Mason: (01:02:51) Nice one. Yeah. That was me. I was raw vegan basically, and a yin yoga teacher, funnily, when I was like, yeah, yeah. Aaron Schultz: (01:03:01) Unreal. Mason: (01:03:03) Yeah. So, I definitely relate to what you're saying. My wife is a yin yoga teacher and goes over and studies with Paul and Suzee Grilley, yeah. Aaron Schultz: (01:03:10) Yeah, yeah. Cool. It's interesting. I was to go over there in 2019, but that got stuffed up, and I've done training with four, five other teachers that have all studied with Paul, but I haven't actually gone and studied with him myself. So, yeah. It'll happen at some stage, I reckon, but yeah. Mason: (01:03:32) For sure. Aaron Schultz: (01:03:32) Yeah. [inaudible 01:03:33]. It's been something like I come from Bikram yoga to hatha to Kundalini to yin so I've gone through all those journeys. The Kundalini yoga is very powerful as far as creating connections and that type of thing. It's amazing what the energy that comes from the practise actually can do for you. Yeah, so I was really grateful to sort of fall into that too, but it's all these tools that have sort of popped up over the journey. Mason: (01:04:03) Yeah, they all fit into a piece of the puzzle. Aaron Schultz: (01:04:06) That's true. Clearly. Mason: (01:04:09) Beautiful mate. Well, I look forward to chatting to you on your podcast, and yeah. I'll keep an eye up for everything you're up to. Thanks for coming on. Dive deep into the mystical realms of Tonic Herbalism in the SuperFeast Podcast!

After Hours: Brovember

The Northern Nerd

Play Episode Listen Later Nov 12, 2021 72:54

After a brief hiatus, the After Hours crew was able to sit down with a few cold beverages to discuss what we've been up to lately. A lot has happened since July when we last recorded an episode! We also discussed the upcoming Thanksgiving holiday, gave out some great recommendations and gave you some not so legit promo codes to use. Also, if anyone is interested in sponsoring our backpacking trip through Europe, just hit up our AOL or MSN Messenger. Enjoy the show!

thanksgiving europe aol msn messenger brovember

Brovember and the Islanders 7 Game Point Streak Snapped : Episode 91

Play Episode Listen Later Nov 8, 2021 246:03

TJ and The Grumpy Old Man talk about the Islanders' recent wins against the Montreal Canadiens and Winnipeg Jets as well as upcoming matchup against the Minnesota Wild.We also discuss Brock Nelson's hot play as of recent and Ilya Sorokin stepping in as the true number one for the Islanders.Make sure to check out TJ and The Grumpy Old Man's general sports podcast: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCotIBUwJ8aL4GegP7I0lpMA#NHL #isles #NewYorkIslanders #islanders #islandershockey #THPN #hockey

game streak new york islanders montreal canadiens minnesota wild winnipeg jets snapped grumpy old man thpn ilya sorokin brock nelson brovember

Brovember and the Islanders 7 Game Point Streak Snapped: Episode 91

StickInRink Podcast

Play Episode Listen Later Nov 8, 2021 248:48

TJ and The Grumpy Old Man talk about the Islanders' recent wins against the Montreal Canadiens and Winnipeg Jets as well as upcoming matchup against the Minnesota Wild. We also discuss Brock Nelson's hot play as of recent and Ilya Sorokin stepping in as the true number one for the Islanders. Make sure to check out TJ and The Grumpy Old Man's general sports podcast: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCotIBUwJ8aL4GegP7I0lpMA #NHL #isles #NewYorkIslanders #islanders #islandershockey #THPN #hockey Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

game streak new york islanders montreal canadiens minnesota wild winnipeg jets snapped grumpy old man ilya sorokin brock nelson brovember

Brovember and the Islanders 7 Game Point Streak Snapped : Episode 91

Islanders Never Say Die Podcast

Play Episode Listen Later Nov 8, 2021 246:03

TJ and The Grumpy Old Man talk about the Islanders' recent wins against the Montreal Canadiens and Winnipeg Jets as well as upcoming matchup against the Minnesota Wild. We also discuss Brock Nelson's hot play as of recent and Ilya Sorokin stepping in as the true number one for the Islanders. Make sure to check out TJ and The Grumpy Old Man's general sports podcast: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCotIBUwJ8aL4GegP7I0lpMA #NHL #isles #NewYorkIslanders #islanders #islandershockey #THPN #hockey

game streak new york islanders montreal canadiens minnesota wild winnipeg jets snapped grumpy old man thpn ilya sorokin brock nelson brovember

11/7/21 - Isles Legend & Lore! Guest: Bobby Nystrom, Isles Legend

Hockey Night In New York

Play Episode Listen Later Nov 8, 2021 92:28

Islander legend Bobby Nystrom joined Seany & Christian for a great Isles chat and the fellas covered the Sorokin, Brovember, 7-game point streaks, and plenty more! Follow @hockeynightny on social media for updates. Presented by RJ Daniels Bar and Grill (rjdaniels.com) Sponsored by TieTechnology (tietechnology.com) Sponsored by Blue Line Deli and Bagels (bluelinedeli.com) Sponsored by Oyster Bay Brewing Co. (oysterbaybrewing.com) Powered by Go Hockey Media (gohockeymedia.com)

new york nhl hockey long island powered lore grill new york islanders bagels isles islander sorokin nystrom nyi seany brovember tietechnology

#94 Diet; The Art of Balance in a Polarised World with Dan Sipple

Play Episode Listen Later Nov 16, 2020 46:42

In this third and final Episode of our Brovember series, Mason sits down with naturopath and good friend Dan Sipple for a conversation around long term diet optimisation for men's health and the journey of coming to a place of balance within a world of trending diet extremes. With a central focus on the pro's and con's of both Carnivore and plant-based diets, this is a relevant conversation for everyone.. not just the bros! Mason and Dan discuss: The upsides and pitfalls of different diets from a clinical perspective; Carnivore, Veganism, Keto, and Ancestral diets. Which diets give the best mitochondria and hormonal output and allow men to experience the greatest health within their bodies. The balancing act of forming a diet that works for the individual, in a world where we have the privilege of choosing with ultimate convenience. The health benefits/therapeutic nature of the Carnivore diet and how it will weigh up over time with the retrospect of science catching up. The importance of eating organ meats; How it impacts and benefits the microbiome, mitochondria, metabolism, and hormonal system long term. 'Diet Dogma' in a pop culture that views 'balance' as boring. The benefits Diet as Therapy. Image issues within the male community and how this factor often plays a huge role in the way men navigate/choose their diet. People moving back towards the practices of Hunting and Gathering. Who is Dan Sipple? Dan is a also known as The Functional Naturopath who uses cutting-edge evidence-based medicine. Experienced in modalities such as herbal nutritional medicine, with a strong focus on environmental health and longevity, Dan has a wealth of knowledge in root-dysfunction health. Resources: Dan Website Dan Instagram Gut Health Podcast 1 Gut Health Podcast 2 Q: How Can I Support The SuperFeast Podcast? A: Tell all your friends and family and share online! We’d also love it if you could subscribe and review this podcast on iTunes. Or check us out on Stitcher, CastBox, iHeart RADIO:)! Plus we're on Spotify! Check Out The Transcript Here: Mason: (00:00) Good day, everybody. I'm here with Dan Sipple again. How are you, man? Dan Sipple: (00:03) I'm doing good, buddy. How are you? Mason: (00:05) Yeah. I'm wonderful. Thank you. Dan Sipple: (00:06) Good to hear. Mason: (00:07) Yeah, just had a beautiful time just to quantum up lift, as I was telling you in my little bio charger session with the Tesla coil and my super oxygenation and red light and limp training. So I'm good. Dan Sipple: (00:20) Beautiful. Mason: (00:20) Brovember, seems like only yesterday, last year, when we were talking about optimization of men's hormones, anyone that hasn't listened to that podcast, it's a cracker. You go back and listen to that. I think it was men's hormones, type in that. But this year, this Brovember, Dan and I are going to be jumping into men's health from the perspective of diet. Of course, it's not just going to like all things. I mean, discussed most things when it comes to men can kind of become quite general. Mason: (00:47) I think that's why we've got such... Of course, we can go really specific with men's health, but we talk about men's health a lot in the sense of like throughout the year but it relates on a general level to the whole population. Whereas a lot of the women's topics are really refined to women's anatomy. But yeah, let's... Just to kind of make that clear. This is going to be appropriate for anybody, no matter whether you're a bro or not. But since we're going to be going into optimization conversation, especially around what's going to help us have best output, mitochondria output, hormonal output, so on and so forth. We're not going to be going into those specifics, but we want to make sure long-term, we've got a diet that's going to allow for us to experience the greatest health within our male bodies. Mason: (01:37) One thing I really wanted to get Dan on to talk about because we've talked about gut health and microbiome so much, is what diet is really rising up. And it has some really good parts to it, but then what's the extreme diet around the men's circles that's really kicking off and it's kind of being Keto and Keto is still kind of really cranking along there and doing its good thing short-term and doing its bit of damage, which we've talked about when you got long-term extremist. But carnivore diets are really, really charging ahead, are they? Are you finding a lot of people going on carnivores with kind of all diets for therapeutic purposes in clinic? Dan Sipple: (02:18) Yeah, I mean the conversation is coming up a lot with not only men, but a lot of female patients that I see too. And it's a really, really taken the lead on socials as well, which I'm sure you guys have noticed. So yeah, it's the big thing at the moment. And I guess it's just a good to have the conversation about the many benefits that we can kind of get from it? What angle that comes in on in terms of its therapeutic actions and put it up against certain other diets that we do have probably a little bit more robust data on and make some comparisons. Because there's a lot of claims being made as there is with a lot of diets that do sort of come and go. Dan Sipple: (03:02) So yeah, it's always good to have a chat about and dissect them, answer any questions and just get more information out there. This one is particularly intriguing because it's the first diet, I think, where they're placing such a really a big spotlight on the importance of eating organ meats, which I really am down with and I've always recommended. So that's the first thing that kind of caught my attention. And I was like, "Oh, lets kind of look into this." And I guess I've been kind of loosely following it through the works with Paul Saladin, [inaudible 00:03:33] and Sean Baker and those sorts of characters. But I've always had a bit of... A kind of question around the long-term impact of it on the microbiome. I'll get into that today. That's the major part of it for me, where I sort of questioned its long-term sustainability. But no doubt in terms of just broadly like the metabolic benefits, the mitochondria benefits, the hormonal benefits, I can totally see how they come into play when they're contrast that against other diets that the other people might be promoting. Dan Sipple: (04:07) And that purely, I think, comes down to the nutrient profile that you get when you consume a carnivorous type diet compared those. Mason: (04:13) Pretty fascinating rollout. I mean probably the last couple of decades really dominated by the extremism of veganism and vegetarianism. I think they're quite... Based on where the health information was that in seventies and eighties, that was a very... It was an easy transition towards to clean like all plants, animal fats and proteins and salts are going to be contributing to high cholesterol, blah, blah, blah. That whole kind of like conversations. So everyone's just gone down that route and you can, we just saw such an adoption and it just seems so logically correct to go to cut meats out or pretty much have them being nonexistent in that extreme side of things. And you can just... If I remember it was five years ago when I was told that eating carnivore was going to be like the next big thing by someone. Dan Sipple: (05:00) Yeah, right. Mason: (05:02) And I was like, "I just don't..." I was like, "I didn't see that happening." I think it'll kind of leave you kicking along in the sidelight. And then as the keto just stopped it became like a religion basically. And like bulletproof it became like a religion. You couldn't question the sanctity of saturated fats for a time there because they had the whole ritual... They had the whole... I guess they had the good book there to retort everything. I was like, hang on, maybe it's going to happen. Then when Jordan Peterson dropped it. That he was kind of all in that kind of [inaudible 00:05:35]. I think Joe Rogan. [inaudible 00:05:38]. Dan Sipple: (05:34) That's right. Yeah. Mason: (05:38) Yeah. That's when I was like, "Gosh, shit. This is going to... This is going to happen." I don't think it's as severe because I feel like what a lot of people have already done. A lot of people will have their initiation to help by going vegetarian or vegan for quite some time. So they have their taste of real extremism and of course we've got the young people who are early adopting health for the first time going into keto and meat, kind of mixed based diet that they are going on. They'll touch the edges of extremism here in these diets, but it's almost like these carnivore diets come up as like a cathartic experience of people post vegetarian and vegan and plant-based eras having something that's going to just start to balance out, a lot of the psyche, a lot of the stories that they've told themselves or what we've told themselves about what's healthy and what's not healthy. Mason: (06:33) And I don't know, I kind of enjoy... I'm enjoying what gene that happened in that real balancing act to happen. I'm not enjoying the real contrast I see of like slinging shit at plants from the carnivore world and yeah, it's... I'm interested to go down the route of it because I definitely think it's a good thing as this has come up in popularity, but we might as well, and then everyone is just going, is it good or bad? And it's such a boring, bland question. Is it good or bad? Not that it's wrong to ask it. Because I definitely ask stupid questions all the time, but let's just go in and get a little bit of clarity so we can start. I mean, let's start at the... It's confusing out there everybody. Mason: (07:22) I follow two gastroenterologists that are... Seem to be well-regarded, one's a vegan plant-based Bible lover. Who's a professional clinical gastroenterologist. I follow another gastroenterologist clinical. He is pretty much carnivore and so it can get confusing. And so I like... I like following both of them and then looking into the middle there. So let's kick off. I want to start looking at what some of the big claims are in or maybe lets... You want... Should we jump into say our little short term, what we're going to start, seeing, being benefited to someone that goes into a carnivore diet probably let's start with [inaudible 00:00:08:00]. Dan Sipple: (08:01) Yeah. Yes, for sure. And that's what we do typically notice is that we see a short term benefit because of the drastic reduction in possibly any implant compounds for people who for example, who have a complex autoimmune condition or trying to heal a leaky gut. They strip away all these complex plant sort of nutrient rich kind of phytochemical profiles. And it allows the immune system to calm down. That's what we see initially. So what I mean by that is the lectins, the oxalates, the goitrogens. Those types of things that an entry nutrients as well, which are in plant compounds once they get stripped away, but basically they are left with highly assimilable amino acids, a great array of vitamins and nutrients, B12, iron, retinoic acid, vitamin A, and that type of thing. And essentially what we're then doing is nourishing that gut wall completely, and we're stripping out any of these potentially irritating fibres and phytonutrients. Which is kind of where the carnivore crowd comes in and basically says that plant compounds like these made by the plant to defend themselves because the plants can't physically defend themselves and they don't want to be eaten. So they make these plant toxins. And that's something that I guess had a little bit of an issue with kind of telling an audience that plants are suddenly toxic. It starts to really brand plants in that way that they're full of toxins. And that can kind of create a bit of a mental relationship there with... Like someone naive that's listening and going, "Oh, shit plants are now toxic, okay." And that kind of makes sense too, right? They're like, all right, the plants are making these toxins. They're going to do the same thing on my body. Mason: (09:53) Oh, I remember talking to you about when I first heard Jordan Peterson talking about it and he'd basically gone hook line sinker. So he's talking on this potent intellectual level about psychology and development- Dan Sipple: (10:08) Which he is friggen good at, by the way. Mason: (10:10) Incredible at. Especially back when he was pumping fresh on carnivore and then he switched over to extremist. I'm just going to repeat the narrative mode of my diet. And it was kind of, it was cool. Because it was just... He was, Oh, he's just a [inaudible 00:10:28]. He was like, I'm not an expert in this, but he's all of a sudden all my inflammatory conditions went down, my autoimmune condition went down, my daughter's autoimmune condition was... Basically all her symptoms disappeared in the space of three months of getting on a carnivore diet. And whenever there was any like broccoli, goitrogen, gliadin, anything like that, any plant matter whatsoever, all of a sudden the flare would come up. And so it'd be like so logically, plants are bad. Dan Sipple: (10:54) Yeah. That's right. That's right. And what we're seeing there is that immune system, just for the first time, start to calm down and therefore the permeability of the gut wall that exists in all those autoimmune sufferers, people that have allergies, asthma, autoimmune, all that type of thing. Their immune system calms down. We see reduction in symptoms. So straight away, we correlate that with other kinds of the carnivore diets healing me. What's really happening, I think is just that it's an elimination diet, which isn't really new. And when you look at it, we've known about an elimination diets for this purpose for a long time, they just purely allow the inflammatory reactivity of the immune system to calm down. So we see a drastic reduction in symptoms. So that's one of the first things.... The positive things I think we notice. In addition to that, the metabolic, the metabolic parameters seem to also have a really positive shift. Dan Sipple: (11:45) So for instance, insulin resistance, fasting blood glucose, cholesterol markers, and that type of thing often do balance out from what I've seen so far. So again, that is kind of supportive of that initial honeymoon period with this type of diet that we're getting a lot of metabolic kind of benefit there. And then again, coming back to the nutrients which you get from this sort of diet, which I'm a massive fan of and I'll put that out there, vitamin A, retinoic acid, which we know is extremely, extremely gut healing and immuno regulating. And you can't get that from the plant kingdom. Dan Sipple: (12:18) It's something the body's got to make from beta carotene, which a lot of vegans say is vitamin A from plant foods like, "Hey, I'll get my vitamin A. I'll eat lots of sweet potato and carrots." It's like, no, no, no, your body's got to then convert that across to retinoic acid at the expense of your zinc. But when you eat something like liver or any kind of organ or animal meat, you get that in it's preformed, a bio-available form that the body can readily use and absorb. Then you've got other amino acids like creatine, L-carnitine, zinc-carnitine, growth factors, peptides, and all those types of things too, which coming in on today's kind of topic for men is extremely potent and extremely beneficial for hormonal and mitochondrial reasons. Mason: (13:05) Well, so that's where I'm really quite grateful for the clinical application of these carnivore diets coming in and as well, I see it's really nice to see people who have been plant-based for so long, all of a sudden make this switch over to a diet like this and then have such success that had success in the beginning of something... A vegan or something or plant based but they've been extreme, and then they come over to carnivore kind of keto diet. And they're getting all these. Getting the peptides and growth factors and B12 and retinol acids and animal based vitamin D and all that, like you were saying, and all of a sudden they get flooded with these nutrients and all of a sudden... I think that's where I've seen, like a lot of like guys I know who had like love handles, they'd been highly estrogenic, low testosterone, really bloaty. The other thing about, I think about this like having. Mason: (14:03) ... Really bloated. The other thing about it, think about having, especially if you kind of not just searing everything. If you're boiling your meats and making stews and there's broth and that kind of thing, which always seems the way that my body has done a job at best. Dan Sipple: (14:16) Right. Mason: (14:16) It's just so easy to absorb. If you've got really terrible digestion, from what I can see in the short term. All of a sudden this uptake of nutrient density, it's intense especially if you're taking these organ meats. So it's been nice to see weight shifting, hormone panels have been apparently shifting really quick energy levels exploding, mitochondrial production, ATP going through the roof. So, you feel like a powerhouse and athletically you feel like you're really pumping, especially. Mason: (14:48) I've heard of wound healing with all these growth factors and peptides, all of a sudden, protein loading is that anyway, whatever it is, all these benefits. I suppose the benefits come out of that, but like anything then you fall hostage to the thing that has healed you. And most of the time, if you've been extreme Western or extreme kind of plant based oestrogen-rich non-yang diet, basically with an excessive amount of plants. Mason: (15:18) That balancing act in the beginning, however, long it takes to bring some harmony you'll experience that sweet spot of harmony, right? And what the risk then we run is the mind's taking over and labelling this as good and our saviour. Therefore, we ignore. What I can see as inevitably coming up is going to be coming up. This is where I see the need in Carnivore Diets for the propaganda of defence around fibre. Mason: (15:49) You've mentioned you wanted to talk about hormesis and these kinds of things, all of a sudden you watch a diet or someone who's branded themselves around a particular diet. You watch them get on the deep end, once you ... it's really interesting. You watch them go on the back foot, they'll be excited and this and that, and then they'll have their spiel ready, for when they get these particular questions and quite often not that's bad that they're doing that sometimes being on the defensive's necessary or being on the back foot's necessary. Mason: (16:19) But generally, if you poke there, that's where you'll find a lacking of evidence or that they're just covering up something that subconsciously they don't really want to acknowledge. That's so. If you don't mind, let's just dive into that. What do we ... where is it from a clinical perspective? Where do you see it being quite gray? I didn't listen to that carnivore MD recently, I think he's been doing the rounds and he was on frozen as well. Mason: (16:48) apparently it was quite cherry picked, but you know, some people said it was really good and so on and so forth, but in that kind of situation, let's go into some of the discussions where if you dig a little bit data, maybe the data isn't as solid as we're led to believe. Dan Sipple: (17:01) Yeah. Look, I want to be super clear too. In that Paul Saladino, the carnivore MD, I actually ... is quite a likeable dude, super, super well researched comes across really well, super intelligent. And he's done a really, really good job of bringing this to the forefront. I believe he's got a book as well. I'm yet to read that yet, but I'll get to it. And just does a really good kind of narrative of summarising the therapeutic nature of this kind of diet. Because to be fair, there is plenty of good parts to it. But as I said earlier, the issue I kind of have with it is when it is compared to the diet of traditional Hunter gatherer societies. This picture is painted where we as Hunter gatherers is solely kind of either solely ate organ meats and meats and yeah, that's right. Dan Sipple: (17:56) Just kind of collected plant foods altogether, or kind of put plants on the back burner just said that they're fallback foods and they're like last ditch effort foods, and that we will use them to survive, but they're not really our preference. Even if that was true, the reality is that our evolution and our ancestry has seen us eat a combination of, yeah. All the animal foods and knows the tail organs again, which I promote coupled with root tubers, berries, nuts seeds, and those types of things. That's- Mason: (18:26) I'm going to say anyone that has an argument, I hate going to logic, but anyone using that argument that around the world, the preference has been made has never come across a bush of wild berries. Right. If I have to, if a bloody have to fine, right? There's no liver around. We show there's no liver anymore. Anyway, now we're at a little bit, all right. Bloody hell. All right, I'll leave it there. Dan Sipple: (18:49) That's right. Yeah. Yep. So coming back to Paul Saladino, so he talks a lot about hormesis. Hormesis is basically healthy stress on a cellular level, either from toxins in, as he calls them in plant compounds or environmental hormesis. I guess to summarise his kind of argument from the Carnivore perspective is that you should be able to stimulate the body's cellular hormesis from environmental factors, such as cold thermogenesis, intermittent fasting, oxygen restriction, that type of thing, exercise, yada yada. Dan Sipple: (19:26) Whereas there's plenty of evidence, medical evidence, medical literature, strongly supporting the hormetic effects that we get from plant compounds, such as Curcumin, EGCG from green tea , Resveratrol, and those sorts of things for delivering I guess, a weak stressor to the cell and that cell then becoming stronger as a result of it pumping up our own Glutathione production, NRF2 activation and things like that. Dan Sipple: (19:53) So look, admittedly, I haven't sort of gone down that Rabbit Hole in its entirety to really, really suss that out. Again, common sense tells me that a combination of both those things is probably the best thing ever, and that we shouldn't try to get in this kind of one side. That's the only way argument. So that's the whole, the hormesis kind of aspect to it. Then you've got things like pH balance. Dan Sipple: (20:17) Such a high protein diet, which it inevitably is long-term, does that kind of then create pH issues which I wonder about? The Carnivore kind of argument to that is that, if you're eating the compounds such as those found in connective tissue and organs and that type of thing they are full of plenty of alkalizing minerals, which shouldn't negate that. But I'm not really convinced on that one, if I'm honest. Then you've got just the fact that there really is only a handful of people really strongly in this camp promoting it. Dan Sipple: (20:53) We just don't have robust long-term evidence or sites on the long-term effects of this. And again, as I alluded to earlier, the biggest concern for me is really the microbiome. You've heard me bang on this, about it in previous podcasts about butyrate production and how important that is for healthy gut lining and immune modulation and what not. Just to summarise that butyrate is this compound, is short-chain fatty acids that our healthy bacteria make when they're fed plant polyphenols and soluble fibre. Dan Sipple: (21:21) So, we've got bacteria in things like accamensium and Faecalibacterium, which in decent amounts have been correlated at least in research with really healthy outcomes, gut protective immuno modulating, etc. But they require the soluble fibre and plant material to feed them, to nourish them so that they make more short-chain fatty acids like butyrate acetate and propionate. Dan Sipple: (21:43) Paul hormesis, his argument is that if you're in a state of ketosis, you're making these ketone bodies. One of them called beta-hydroxybutyrate, I believe. And his argument is that, that compound can then act as a fuel to these good species of bacteria in the gut. So they'll still continue to produce butyrate. That's something that kind of my ears prick up to Dan Sipple: (22:08) But again, I want to see that supported by more robust evidence and kind of see just more than kind of an equal stand people. So it's something we'll have to just watch over time and really allow the science to catch up with. Mason: (22:24) From what you're looking at, what is the main attachment to the sticking to Carnivore rather than introducing a plant whatsoever. Because, it's been interesting. Because, I've allowed myself kind of consciously, just not that I would want to go towards a kind of carnivore diet at this point unless as you're saying, he's talking about the therapeutic effects and it been used as a therapy. I really rate these diet therapies so much, I think it's really good. Mason: (22:52) ... that this one's come about, but I've allowed myself to kind of sink into that community mind, think a little bit and come into touch of with the plant phobia a little bit. I've found that quite toxic. Not projecting this onto everyone else, but for myself, when I came out the other end of it, I've found that quite toxic in itself. Just feeling that aversion and mistrust of the plant kingdom completely. It really rubbed me up the wrong way. Mason: (23:25) And I think all it really took for me, it was really useful because it did point me towards going. I was all right. Well, then what's a useful way then for me to approach plants again and bridge myself out of that little experiment. It all came down to food preparation, selection. I don't like following ratios, but we have talked about ratios on our gut bacteria podcast, which always then comes down to where food settles in your kitchen, in the flow of your kitchen where it's settles into. Whether it's a staple aside food or sometimes food so on and so forth. Mason: (24:03) So, that kind of plays out for the mental rationale, the ratio for the more romantic you're thinking about. The richness that's something bringing all the saltiness or the fibre. But it's something that's going to be bringing to the diet. And you kind of ... I like having wherever you're arriving to you, we've talked about, I've talked about that MD, the gastroenterologist, the vegan all fibre, basically and then the Carnivore dude. It's amazing that a field of medicine can have such extreme for that. But- Dan Sipple: (24:33) No it is from, especially from a gastroenterologist perspective. People that are doing surgery and stuff like that to have such polarising views. I find that pretty. That's kind of blew me away when we had that conversation a couple of weeks ago. Dan Sipple: (24:51) We both know who these characters are and they've got these kind of extreme opposite angles yet they're both kind of head of their field doing really well, really successful, really popular. There's not much middle ground and that's kind of concerning. The thing I come back to is that kind of balance in modern pop culture is kind of boring and we know that- Mason: (25:13) Yes, it's so boring. Dan Sipple: (25:13) For them for a brand. But you know, if that's the reality, that's the reality. If someone said to me, Dan, you can no longer take herbal medicine or everything you've learned in the last 10 to 15 years is out the window because you're wrong basically, and don't trust 5,000 years worth of TCM based on tried and tested herbal compounds. By the way, you can't eat sweet potato or berries or nuts and seeds anymore. That part of it doesn't sit well for me. Dan Sipple: (25:46) But on the flip side, I can definitely, definitely get behind the concept of eating more organ meats and promoting to my patients and look forward to seeing the benefits of that when people start to take on that. Because I feel like that is more in line with how we ancestrally ate. You know we got to kind of time, I guess, in human history where we went, Oh, hang on food. So plentiful, now we don't have to worry about those less ideal tasting organ meats. We can just have the flesh, the muscle meat. Mason: (26:15) That's interesting. You point to something really, I think quite important. I think I've been talking about this too much, but I've been really thinking about how a diet in the modern world forms and we need a completely different way of looking at it since it's so convenient where choosing with the ultimate convenience. There I've got bone marrow capsules at home. That Tahnee bought, I'm just, sometimes I look at it and I feel so disconnected from what the original intent is. Mason: (26:43) Although I'm really grateful for it, it sure is a valid thing to bring about in my lifestyle. But where we're crafting and creating these lifestyles, we're choosing to do a Hunter gatherer kind of style. Some people are actually returning completely to that. But it's within compliance with society in some level. Most of the time it's choice and convenience and often new weapons and so on and so forth. Mason: (27:10) Then likewise on the vegan style everywhere, where we're just choosing and crafting. It's this beautiful and harrowing time and therefore it's going to be confusing. And especially when someone wants to sit within one external brand or identity. We talk about this a lot. But I've been really thinking about just how many of the external worlds and groups with different group things, like for me, Carnivore has never really had that appeal, but it fits into that ancestral model. Mason: (27:40) They maybe, but you know, just I've travelled into that world and I can feel in the ancestral think, there's all these quiet for me. I can feel these heavy rules and judgments towards the modern living and towards other kind of incomplete opposition to other things that I've valued. So, I've gone in and gone deep into that Chinese medic. Mason: (28:03) So I've gone in and gone deep into that Chinese medical, like Taoist way of eating, which is really with the seasons taking advantage of agrarian farming culture. And then for me, like I said, I consider all these little pillars that I've journeyed into. And a lot of the time I've gotten lost in those and then developed morality. And then haven't been able to come back to myself and allow them to interrelate and amalgamate. So having another one talking to you around the bringing biodiversity to the microbiome, all of a sudden that's brought up the relevance of say these lectin containing plants, which are in complete opposition to certain might think that I've had from the ancestral perspective. I'm not having, not using lentils and beans because I just didn't have that affinity towards them. Mason: (28:53) Likewise, I'm not really using them in a Taoist kind of perspective, but nonetheless, I've felt myself being drawn there. And despite there being this opposition, right? So there's opposition there. I've been really thinking about how my diet culture is going to rise up. I think it's relevant for all guys to really consider this. So you can journey into a world, then if you can journey back to yourself and think that you're going to have many different footings and principles that are going to lay the foundation for you to create your own diet upon, and there's going to be many opposing views. And really good example is all this carnivore world in opposition with say more of a plant-based eating for lots of fibre, lots of plant polyphenols so that we can nourish the microbiome and so on and so forth. Mason: (29:47) But if you can stand back and allow them, all these different principles that start interrelating with each other, all these areas that have inspired you and start them, not laying them on top of each other, you've got to respect all those different worlds and the fact that they are either therapies or Taoism now being a complete system. You don't necessarily want to chop and change too much. You can feel those principles and values that you've really nourished you from there and then keep on going on your journey. You feel all of a sudden they start mixing in and creating a really beautiful culture there. I mean, we talked about in that gut podcast and all of a sudden, I felt the naughtiness of having a meal that's excessive in meat, right? Because that's going to feed a particular bacteria and families that are going to create a reducing the tightness of the junctures of the gut's wall lining. But that falls in complete opposition of my value of Argentinian cooking, right? Dan Sipple: (30:49) Yeah, yeah. Mason: (30:49) And so if I've stepped back and I allow those two to interplay, and I think about how it's going to work over years and decades of how they will interact with each other, all of a sudden I can feel both values been satiated and nourished. And eventually I'm kind of getting to the point where I'm hitting... I don't really have much else that I want to explore at the moment dietarily. I'm really happy to give it years to allow them to form into one another. And I think that's a good one for guys. And of course, everyone else who's listening, but for guys to remember when you find yourself in these extreme throws of diet with all these beautiful, beautiful benefits coming about, carnivore and vegan, all of that, you get the beautiful weight loss and blood sugar control and athletic output. Mason: (31:36) But remembering that at some point, it's going to be good to move beyond that identity. The big warning I think... there's a big warning around branding yourself, whether you're branding yourself in your group of friends, in your own mind or on Instagram, it's the one thing I... I saw like Jordan Peterson's daughter then create some diet that's like a lion diet or something like that. So it was just full carnivore diet. And then last time I checked, maybe she had this all along, I'm not saying it didn't work or anything, but it was interesting to see then she was starting to have that conversation from what I could tell about bridging people towards starting to integrate plants. But that is something hard when you've created such an aversion in the [crosstalk 00:32:25]. Dan Sipple: (32:24) That's right, yeah. Mason: (32:26) You needed to be there very solid and reverence been delivered full of harmony and you going forth and finding something that's not going to get you ejected from society. Because if you're eating all meat, it's hard to go to friend's houses. It's hard to be social and it's hard to be integrated. And that is possibly an even bigger nutrient than the food you're eating. What do you think about all that? Dan Sipple: (32:46) So it's so true, man. Yeah. And this is a thing which I, I guess have another kind of slight issue with, I guess, is that when this really came to the forefront a year ago, like you were saying, and it was heavy on socials and Jordan Peterson was suddenly the topic of conversation and everything, and it was carnivore carnivore carnivore, the name of the diet in itself kind of ensures that yeah, you're eating meat and you're eating organ meats and it is very, animal-based. Fast forward a year later, a lot of these characters are now going, "Oh, hang on. No, we worked out that hunter gatherers ate a lot of honey, so I'm eating honey now." And yeah, these couple of fruits are suddenly on the agenda. So I mean watching that evolve over the past 12 to 18 months, I'm just kind of going, no shit, of course. Why do we have to call it a carnivore diet? Why can't it just be the ancestral diet, which already existed pre this kind of quote unquote carnivore diet kind of took the spotlight? Because an ancestral diet, take like a Weston A. Price type approach, is just that. It's the cultured dairy, minimum processed whole foods, organic. There is some plant compounds, there is beneficial fibre. There's not too much of it, but it does have a focus on organ meats as well for the skeletal health and dental health and all that type of thing too. Dan Sipple: (34:13) So I see it kind of evolving and working its way through that type of thing. And I don't know if it will then be rebranded, I'm sure it's still going to be called the carnivore diet. But that again for me was just a bit of a kind of red flag with it where I was like, okay, so it's actually evolved within 12 months or so. And I dare say, will continue to in another 12 months. Mason: (34:37) Yeah. It's reminiscent of when it went from fruitarian to 80 10 10, where it was just, all right, well first of all, we're [inaudible 00:34:49] Fruitarians and we're on 40 bananas a day. And then actually let's make it 80% sugar and then maybe 10% plant-based protein, 10% plant-based fats. Actually now we're making it raw till four. And so after four o'clock you can have your cooked foods, and so it goes. I think it's a beautiful skill for men to pick up as we're navigating diet, because I think there's a lot of image issues within the community of men. And that's why there is such an appeal toward... The main appeal towards ketogenesis back in the day was getting [crosstalk 00:35:33]. Dan Sipple: (35:33) Getting lean, yeah. Mason: (35:37) I really wanted to understand the carnivore stuff. That's why when I allowed myself to get drawn in, it was that. It was just like, oh my gosh, the such sudden muscle mass growth. And oh my gosh, I've lost that weight around the wherever. It was some guys' handles, some guys it's like the man boob side of things. And you can feel, it's like an advertisement. It's no different to an infomercial at the core of its energy. I think it's great for guys to look at these things and see that there's something within a carnivore diet or any diet that's going to be coming forth, but it's got appeal. And so therefore there's a value there for them and maybe it's hormonal so on and so forth. But if you can retain that skill to go into it, say understanding that you're going into something therapeutically, really unsure, go with [inaudible 00:36:34] or something like that. Or you facilitate people going through these dietary journeys. Mason: (36:40) But remember that you will come out the other side and at any time that your mind starts attaching and finding a rightness to what you're doing and a wrongness to what you were doing and to what other people are doing, just start to get a bit more slippery in your mind and slither out of it a little bit. Because what I think what- Dan Sipple: (37:00) Yeah [crosstalk 00:37:01]. Mason: (37:02) Yeah. But for men, of course there's weight. Weight loss might be something to go in with, but that's going to sit there and become a little bit of an eating disorder at some point, which is what ultimately extreme diets are going to become. I feel like it's important for guys to just remember that you're going to go in and do your work, and then you're going to come out the other side of any label diet and just start to draw those principles. And if you can find it in yourself to not brand yourself in any way, just practise. Don't have any label for your diet, if you can. If it works for your profession. It's not a bad idea to have a couple of words to kind of [inaudible 00:37:48], but if you can feel that none of them can actually explain what your diet is, we're in such a discovery stage of how are we going to be eating long-term. So give yourself that freedom. I think it'll really, it'll ease up a little bit of mental stress. Mason: (38:05) And I think for a lot of guys who are adverse, they're a bit worried about going into any kind of deep dive into health as well because they feel it is going to take away a lot of what's possible for them to do that they enjoy, just remember that's a principle in itself. That's celebratory. In fact, maybe it's eating foods that are nostalgic to you or from your childhood or connects you to your mates, that can be its own big pillar or principle that needs to long-term be integrated into all these other areas that are important to you, microbiome, ancestral eating, for me, Taoist seasonal eating, so on and so forth. Mason: (38:43) They can mingle just, it just might be appropriate to just put it to the side for a time while you therapeutically dive in so you can get greater context around how and why you're approaching those foods that are for lack of a better word, bad for you or unhealthy, which I don't think they're words that I really value too much. But yeah. I mean, it's a wild world out there. And it's been great to see this drawing so many more men. It's been great, keto and carnivore have really engaged a lot of blokes. It's been really great to see, right? Dan Sipple: (39:18) Totally. That's also what I do want to highlight. At the end of the day, if people, men particularly are being more conscious about their food, understanding what inflammation is, the role of it in the body, what foods cause your health, what ones boost health and whatnot on a general level and coming off that kind of sad diet, at the end of the day, that's what we want. Everyone's going to go on a process of discovery once they're down that rabbit hole at some stage and nourish their knowledge and work out what works for them. Because there's always going to be that metabolic and kind of... that flexibility. Like blood type, even blood types, I'm sure that the blood type Os are to be the ones that thrive more so on this sort of diet than your As and your Bs. So we're always going to see a bit of flexibility and diversity with who it works with and who it doesn't. Dan Sipple: (40:14) But yeah, as I said, as long as people are becoming more switched on and connecting to their foods and their diet and where their food's coming from too, that's a huge one. So yeah. And I guess coming back to the carnivore ins and outs and rules and that type of thing, the other concern I had about it with a lot of people was that they hear all of a sudden that, oh no, you get a reduction in this inflammatory condition if you eat this way and why not? Oh, cool. And just the amount of folks that are then going to go out and just start eating more muscle meat and probably poorly raised muscle meat. That's that's for me an epic fail. And I'm sure that has the tendency to happen. Dan Sipple: (40:52) Again, just coming back to the fact that folks in our kind of era haven't been raised really by and large eating oval and organ meats. And so even if they try them for the first time, a lot of people are going to freak out and be like, there's no way I can shelve that three times a day. I'd rather just have a ribeye. And that is going to be super, super problematic compared to your carnivore person who's super across it and is sourcing liver and heart and kidney and whatever and combining it with the muscle meats and being as diverse as possible and eating a wide variety of animals too. It comes back to the plant thing, right? You don't just want to eat the same plants, you want a diversity of plants. So I'd hope that people are trying to source the venison and the kangaroo and the beef and the chicken and the duck and making it mimic what we would have done more so ancestrally. That fits for me more. Yeah. I'm not sure where I was going with that one. Kind of a bit off track there. Mason: (41:52) But I'll pick it up there because that was something I wanted to bring up, is it's been beautiful around this movement that there has been a balancing through the say- Mason: (42:04) And I'm not referring to level-headed people who, for lack of a better word, are eating more of the vegan lifestyle. I'm talking about extremists whenever I bring it up. Dan Sipple: (42:14) Right Mason: (42:16) There was just such a stigma around meat and the vegan propaganda for going vegan for fun. Which for all intents and purposes is a great thing to explore. But then, you see with this carnivore diet, is you raising awareness around quality of meats and farming practises. That again, you just see a hopefully two balancing, harmonising elements that could and should be coming together. And of course, when you get two opposing forces, they're going to point out where the other one needs to actually look. But it's been great to see this carnivore diet coming up and of course the Keto and that kind of side of things. The level of importance being put onto regenerative farming has been really huge, heirloom breeds has been huge, of course the obvious one is going from grain-fed to grass-fed. Dan Sipple: (43:10) Yes. Mason: (43:12) And then as well, the push towards the medicines, eating invasive species. I've got a mate, I think I've mentioned on the podcast before, it's hard to get rabbit and that going, because there's so many [inaudible 00:43:27] getting traps out, but even the Asian Minor birds, like, why aren't we eating these birds? They get them checked and get them processed. In a professional way by of which about these animals that are invasive. They're more [inaudible 00:43:44] maybe. The medicines that we want one for us to get access to here on the East coast. Mason: (43:51) And that's a good way to kind of go about it as well. Coming back to it was why I really respect old mate Pete [phonetic 00:43:59] where he doesn't eat any industrial foods anymore. Which is something when I drop into my ancestral or kind of pillar, that if I really embody that, if I go too far into it, my right and wrongness pointed at myself for eating any domesticated animal becomes really intense. But someone who's really gone down that route. It's like the there's quite a few people. But Pete, for everything that he does and rags on about, he's only eating animals that are native. Right. I don't know what he's actually eating, but when I think about it, I used to get the native meats delivered before the guys in the Adelaide market there. I can't remember the name, but it was magpie goose and crocodile then getting into the camel then boar and that kind of thing to help [crosstalk 00:00:44:54]. Dan Sipple: (44:55) Did you get buffalo at one stage, do I recall? Was that you? Mason: (44:56) Yeah. Well buffalo. We can get Ocean Shores Butcher. [crosstalk 00:45:00]. Dan Sipple: (45:00) Yeah I need to try that. Mason: (45:03) Yeah, beautiful meat. Coming from places where the Buffalo hooves are just absolutely destroying the ecology, similar to what's going on with the brumbies in, in Mount Kosciuszko. It's really hard for people, especially coming out of veganism, to wrap your head around. But there's a lot of animals that are absolutely decimating the ecology there about. Mason: (45:25) Just remembering that, for me, it's important because I didn't grow up eating organ meats, I'm still taking capsules and that. And Tahn's and I kind of shave little bits in here and there, because absolute bliss when it comes to it. Just remembering even when you're kind of patting yourself on the back of the going grass-fed and regenerative farming, I'm not trying to guilt anyone out. And just to remember, you're still tapped completely into a pharmaceutical model. Every one of those cows is vaccinated. Its the most cutting edge practises. Mason: (46:01) And Andrew from Byron Bay, from Grass Fed meat, great place, everyone should go and support him. They'd be supporting really good farmers. I've only been able to get chickens that aren't vaccinated, right. And they're the best chickens ever, like $45 a bird. Well otherwise, so all the cows and all the pig and the lamb and all that, and even though they're regenerating farming, they're not going to risk losing a herd by not vaccinating. So you're still tapped into a model. They're not to bring any guilt, but just get over yourself a little bit, remember that you're still sitting there as we are remembering those kinds of things, but nonetheless [crosstalk 00:04:44] Dan Sipple: (46:43) Well if anything then hopefully it encourages people to do a bit more hunting and gathering, as lame as that might sound, but to actually get into hunting. The amount of folks that I've seen. And I know a few that have gone all the way from, let's call it a sad diet to veganism, to hardcore dogma vegan for years and years, experience all the health issues that might come with that after a certain amount of time and then come back to a Paleo Esc type diet and now picking up hunting practises. That's pretty cool. I think that's ideally what we want to do, right? Mason: (47:17) Yep. It's a natural progression. It is definitely a natural progression. It's definitely where I've been. I just been getting a little bit more into fishing, bringing it a little bit more protein in. In that way, but it's an inevitable big venture for me to start getting into that. I've just been looking at getting those skills, kind of like rocking for the first time, but what a way to connect to the lamb it's good. Dan Sipple: (47:45) For sure. Mason: (47:45) Yeah. And the hunting and likewise as you said gathering, start being able to go out and people start getting herb's from you in bottles, or getting mushrooms from me. And then eventually they are out there in the shrub looking at their own mushrooms. Right. Start harvesting and if they want [inaudible 00:06:04]. I think we're having Jake Cassar next week on the podcast so you going to do some witchcraft with old Jake as well. Anything else you wanted to just drop in there around diet and just especially if we just focus on the guys men's health in general, when it comes to diet any other little tidbits or advice? Dan Sipple: (48:28) Look, I think just to kind of leave it with the fact that we really not trying to demonise meat at all in this podcast, if anything, we're promoting ethical source, as we said, if you're going to do it go more nose to tail really, really make an emphasis on trying to bring in those organ meats. The nutrient profile on that stuff is, in my opinion, nature's superfood and trumps anything. So it really to emphasise that. And there's no question that if you are kind of struggling with libido and performance and cognition and that type of thing, this is something that you may want to experiment with and do short term, I'd encourage that. Dan Sipple: (49:06) The long term I'm talking years down, the track is where I have my concerns, but definitely in the short term to get away from a more sad diet, way of eating to then incorporating more organs, more nose to tail type foods and ways of cooking and preparation and that type of thing, go for it. Don't hold back at the same time, be accountable, be respectful and call yourself out if there is issues that, that arise out of it. And don't get too dogmatic. This is the biggest one, right? Mason: (49:39) Yeah. It's the biggest one, 100%. Yeah. It's so good to kind of experiment with [inaudible 00:49:43] help break like some of the rules you had in mind. I still sometimes have big hunk of protein for breakfast and I still kind of pat myself, looking sideways at myself. Dan Sipple: (49:55) Yeah. Mason: (49:55) "What are you doing mate?" But yeah. Ultimately I agree with you, it's something worth potentially exploring and then letting it just settle into the diet for me. Yeah. It's still kind of at the point where meat sits in there as a bit of a side dish from the Taoist perspective, Tahnee [phonetic 00:00:50:21] and I are still doing quite a bit of blood building, after all these years of being vegetarian. So it's another kind of place where it can be slowly integrated and being cooked well. The stews, boiling them up is still something where I find a lot of meat coming in and then, yeah. But otherwise it's sitting and trying to just remember that having that there as a kind of a little bit of a side dish almost in the meals. It must still settle into place for me. I don't know how your [inaudible 00:50:51] with the gut bacteria. Dan Sipple: (50:52) Yeah, look I'm the same I have to say. I still catch myself sometimes going, I've definitely out done my protein quota for today. And you can probably feel that turn and down in the gut. As you know, I kind of keep close tabs on the microbiome and test every kind of three or four months and just see where it's at. And look, I've definitely seen times when I have gone too protein heavy, a spike in the bacteria that ferment them and it' be not so good. And that's me, who's super, super, super tuned in to everything microbiome. Dan Sipple: (51:22) So, it is a delicate balance and that's why I keep saying it, but I come back to that kind of impact of just eating too much protein and too much fat without the context of the fibre there to buffer it. That's the longterm concern. So in a nutshell guys, those of you listening, do it, experiment with it, but get your pathology done alongside it, get your bloods. And if you keen to go that far into it, get the stool test done as well and check it all out. Mason: (51:49) Do the microbiomes, that's what you're saying? Dan Sipple: (51:53) Yeah, yeah. Mason: (51:53) The microbiome tests. I hope you're not following too many rules. I've got my wedding coming up. It's a couple of Argentinian boys cooking, a lot of meat and vegetables over the fire. Dan Sipple: (52:01) Awesome, pumped. Mason: (52:03) Leave all your dogma at the door. Sipple. But man, I appreciate it so much. Thanks for your non-dogma approach and helping us talking clinical and helping us bridge that into what that looks like. Long-term in a diet as well from your perspective. It's really helpful. I know the guys who are really appreciating it. Dan Sipple: (52:24) Anytime, bro, it's been fun job. Mason: (52:27) Go and work with Dan. I mean, you're pretty busy at the moment, but like [crosstalk 00:52:32] hit up Functional Naturopath. The Functional Naturopath, .com or .au? Dan Sipple: (52:38) Yeah, just .com and The.Functional.Naturopath on Insta. Mason: (52:41) That's beautiful. Catch you bro. Dan Sipple: (52:43) Okay, later brother.

No Shave Brovember With Brandon Taylor Part I

In The Paint

Play Episode Listen Later Nov 11, 2020 96:13

Welcome back to another episode of this In The Paint podcast today we welcome back brother Brandon to the desk as we roll out a brand new look for the studio and take out our shovels as we dive into a bunch of different topics such as the passing of recreational marijuana in the state of New Jersey to aliens invading time square and everything in between in this 4 part series of "Question Everything". --- This episode is sponsored by · Anchor: The easiest way to make a podcast. https://anchor.fm/app --- Send in a voice message: https://anchor.fm/john30224/message Support this podcast: https://anchor.fm/john30224/support

new jersey shave question everything brandon taylor brovember

#92 Men's Sexual & Mental Health with Taylor Johnson

Play Episode Listen Later Nov 2, 2020 55:01

We're pumped to be kicking off our Brovember series with sex educator and relationship coach, Taylor Johnson. Every year throughout the month of November we place a spotlight on men's health, particularly men's sexual and mental health. We absolutely love taking this time to celebrate men, and explore the many factors that enable them to establish rocking health, not only in their bodies but in their minds and hearts as well. Taylor and Mason share openly about sex, tantric and Daoist sexual practice, maintaining harmony in relationships, pleasure and the use of male sex toys. It's always potent and juicy when Talyor comes on the show and today's episode is no different, a great listen for all. Mason and Taylor discuss: The deification of semen retention practices, Taylor stresses that semen retention is just one part of a holistic lifestyle practise, along with diet, movement, sleep, rest etc. Taylor's semen retention courses and his personal journey with the practice. How to approach the topic of sex and establish a safe environment in which to share your experiences with friends and practitioners. The connection between mental health, sex and relationships. The dysfunctional ideology around twin flames. The tools Taylor uses to create harmony in his relationships (plutonic and romantic). Relationships as systems, cyclic and regenerative in nature. Sex toys for the boys. Anal sex. Who is Taylor Johnson? Taylor Johnson is a sex educator and coach. Taylor helps men master their sexual energy and use it to supercharge their entire life. Taylor's programs and coaching synthesise elements of Tantra and Daoist sexuality with western practicality - in a grounded, accessible and powerful way. Resources: Taylor's Website Taylor's Instagram Taylor's YouTube Taylor's Fleshlight Article Q: How Can I Support The SuperFeast Podcast? A: Tell all your friends and family and share online! We’d also love it if you could subscribe and review this podcast on iTunes. Or check us out on Stitcher, CastBox, iHeart RADIO:)! Plus we're on Spotify! Check Out The Transcript Here: Mason: (00:00) Taylor, brother, how are you, man? Taylor: (00:02) Hey, man, I'm great. Thank you so much for having me back. It's awesome to be here with you. Mason: (00:06) Yeah. Absolute pleasure. It's been a year. I like the habit of meeting up in November for Brovember, Men's Health Month, coming to have a chat about all things men's sexual health and we've got an overarching theme of men's mental health and as always you're not going to be able to separate sexual health and mental health ever. I'm sure we'll touch on that here but how you doing? Taylor: (00:36) Yeah, yeah. Absolutely, man. There's this whole illusion that sex lives in a separate little box down in our genitals and doesn't impact the rest of our lives and that obviously couldn't be further from the truth. So I'm stoked to be talking about just men's mental health in general because it's a topic that I don't think gets enough attention and it's something that we all deal with. We all have mental health and it's... Yeah, so I think it's super important to be talking about it and I'm happy to go into sex and mental health together as a topic. Mason: (01:12) Well, before we jump into all these new topics let's just pick up where we left off last time. So we did a whole podcast about semen retention and just to what was really nice is that I feel like that podcast and your work in general is really, it's grounded and approachable, because quite often as you said sexual health for men as well gets boxed. So if you start to engage with your sexuality you start engaging with say practises that are in the direction of say semen retention, all of a sudden there's this stigma about the kind of person you need to be and the things that are going to start coming up but I'm liking the fact that... Well, let's talk about first idealism around semen retention, about the expectations that we have of it now that it's been a year that the men listening to this or that maybe there's some guys that their girlfriends or partners you have to listen to this podcast. I assume that's happened because... It's top two most listened to podcast we've had. Taylor: (02:23) Awesome. Mason: (02:24) And we have mostly women listening but I want to talk about first of all, how there's various ways of approaching this. You don't have to be that typical image that we've been programmed to think that if you're someone a man that starts engaging with your sexuality that you have some stigmaed person. You can be anyone and do it and also the expectations around semen retention and how to manage those, how do we get the best out of this practice. Taylor: (02:54) Yeah. Yeah. Man, that's an awesome topic. I'd love to dive into that. And to say that if you go on YouTube right now or pretty much anywhere on the internet the topic of semen retention and NoFap, it's on fire. It's up. Everyone's talking about it. And, since we did our podcast a year ago I've actually created a whole semen retention course. I've had a bunch of guys go through it with great successes and I've done coaching with guys around this and I've created a lot of YouTube videos and I've gotten a tonne of questions about it too. And the interesting question that keeps popping up and that I keep seeing out there is some people will say something like this, so imagine a guy he says, “Hey Taylor, I've been retaining for 40 days but I'm not feeling amazing. What's up? Why is that?” Taylor: (03:48) And I see in the semen retention world there's this deification of the practise of semen retention as if it's the only thing you need to do in order to achieve optimum health and optimum mental health and optimum life goals and all this stuff. And so, with this person I would go through a process of questions and be like, okay cool. So you have retained for 40 days but when's the last time you exercised? When's the last time you did something nice for yourself? When's the last time you took time to breathe? What type of foods are you eating? Are you drinking enough water? All this stuff. And then turns out, oh, actually yeah, I haven't exercised in about three weeks and yeah, last night I ate a bunch of macaroni and cheese and I went to sleep at two in the morning. It's like, okay. There's some other things we need to be looking at here too in addition to the practise of semen retention. Taylor: (04:45) In all of the old traditions, like yogic and tantric traditions they all say that it's part of a holistic lifestyle practise. There's so much more to it than just retaining. Mason: (04:56) Well, it's a long game as well, right? It's like, for instance, with the medicinal mushrooms or a breath practise when you start out there's people who just get absolutely blown out of the atmosphere taking these mushrooms and feeling so fantastic, doing a breathing practise and then they're like, wow. I have to have that breathing practise in my life every day to feel energised. That honeymoon period, same with semen retention you may feel really good in the beginning, and then you go, wow. It's going to keep on going up and you seemingly hit this plateau of how good you feel. But it's like with all these things you feel good in the beginning because you've been doing something that's maybe unsustainable or you've had a deficiency and you're returning to normal, so you get that spike in energy and you get a big cathartic experience. Mason: (05:44) But then the plateau is quite often like, awesome, now you're in the real cultivation stage where over years and years of committed practise and exploring, you're going to actually be increasing your Essence and your Kidney Jing, and you're going to be giving yourself energy for more subtle aspects of your evolution. And so that's where the good stuff comes in but then it's just a long stamina game then. I'd imagine it's the same with semen retention. Taylor: (06:12) Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely and there's this term actually, in the semen retention world called flatlining. I think it in NoFap too, like semen retention flatlining. And people say, oh I've had these amazing benefits for the first two weeks, three weeks, four weeks, five weeks, six weeks, and then nothing. And yeah, it's because you're not... I have this one video called The Benefits Of Not Ejaculating for 30 Days, and it's reached a tonne of people on YouTube. And one of the gems of this video are the comments underneath. And people will say things like, “Day 636. I sold my car because I've retained so much I can teleport.” And all this shit. And it's like, no, you don't gain new abilities the longer you go, you just reach a new homeostasis that's more optimal for general life function. And it's vastly more optimal in my opinion but it's a new level of homeostasis. Mason: (07:09) Man, I'm so glad you brought that up. And before we touch on these other points, I just want to give that follow up. I really enjoyed your course. Do you do those all just live or is there courses around the semen retention that people can purchase and go through at all times? How have you set it up at the moment? Taylor: (07:30) Yeah. So a couple times we have gone through as a big group of guys all together and we have a Facebook group. Right now, it's set up to where people can go through on their own. It's a self-study option and they'll get an email every day and get to do all the same exercises and have access to all the live calls from the past. But that way you don't have to wait until four months from now when I do the next big group or something like that. Mason: (07:54) Yeah. I think it's good. I've had a lot of people asking me about it just in the last month. And so it's probably good reminder that coming up to Christmas and all that stuff and so I think it's a nice present to buy for people. But, just in what I was going to say there in terms of the intention that you go into the world and then all of a sudden there's idealism around the fact that the ability to retain for 30 days must be there or that this ideal that you need to get to. It's about the destination. And for me I feel like I was struggling with it and sharing about it on the last podcast in terms of the way my intent lies and the way I'm relating to myself when I approach my own sexuality because I'm so hard on myself. If I don't do something perfect then I just throw the baby out with the bathwater. But I feel like having time around my sexual practise is something and I still do intend for myself require to do more. Mason: (08:56) But, when I was going through the course not focusing on the retention and really focusing on that journey of those 20 minute self pleasuring sessions that weren't about coming and they weren't about any kind of arrival towards any place or anything like that, that was probably the most transformational aspect of that at the end the happy accident of semen retention and multiple orgasms or not even, just the beginnings of experience of these internal explosive orgasms rather than that external cold driven, you've got internal sustainable energy orgasm starting to come about. It was really the juice of it for me which was nice. So yeah, just wanted to put that out there as well as you were saying semen retention is not going to be only everything and it doesn't even have to be your major focus going into this course. It doesn't have that pressure I'd say even there, but the practises are really beautiful. So yeah, I really dig it, man. Taylor: (10:02) Yeah. Thanks for saying that. And that brings up a good segue. I don't know if you were about to go in a segue but I'm feeling- Mason: (10:08) Segmen, seg away. Taylor: (10:11) All right. Actually let's all take a deep breath, I'm going to invite everyone listening to you just to take a quick deep breath into your belly. Yeah. So men's mental health and sex. You said this piece about how that when you were approaching your sexuality, approaching this course even in different aspects of your sex life, that you were approaching it from this perfectionist lens and having to get it done. And it's almost like a performance based thing which is ironic because it's anti performance is what we're going for. And I think it's like, this brings up a really big point for men in general. Taylor: (11:06) A huge piece of programming that men get in this society is that we need to always know exactly what's going on. We need to have our shit together. We need to be self sufficient without needing anybody's help or anybody's guidance. We have to be like leading the way at all times and do it well and provide. And that doesn't leave a lot of room for vulnerability, that doesn't leave a lot of room for asking for help and for questions. And then when you bring sex into the mix almost all of us have grown up with a very poor education about sex and what's possible, sexual health, sexual relationships, romantic relationships, et cetera. Taylor: (11:50) So when guys... And when I started on my sexuality and my sex life and sexual performance health all this stuff, I remember starting it too with that same lens like, oh, I'm going to rock this out, I'm going to hit it with all I got, I'm going to work on it every day and I'm going to just hit it really hard. And this is how I've done a lot of other things in my life, like business projects, personal creative projects, just bam, bam, bam, bam, bam. And it didn't work that way, it doesn't work that way, it's you approach sexuality. And- Mason: (12:23) If you don't mind explaining there where you would bump up against the glass ceiling or the limitation of that, maybe it's an aggressive confidence or an alpha confidence which obviously is still useful. And I love because we need that capacity. But were you just tapped into something more subtle since you were endeavouring on this path? Was it the actual sexual practises? Was it the fact that you had a more loving intention that you'd then hit that glass ceiling of that perfectionist Taylor and had to go searching for other ways to approach say developing a more meaningful confidence that was based on something other than external performance? What was the process there if you don't mind me asking? Taylor: (13:17) Yeah. Well, it's a good question. It was a mix of things and one of them was this whole idea of the lone wolf and got to do it all yourself. And I did, I read a lot of books and I did some courses and I did a lot of self study and practise and I found myself feeling isolated with that. And I didn't have community, I wasn't talking with my other guy friends about this stuff. I wasn't even really talking about it with my girlfriend I was just having this internal experience. And there was a glass ceiling that came from that, because there was almost a shame in talking about it. I didn't want to be seen as the guy who was really studying sex at first. I didn't want to be seen as the guy who was really invested in improving this part of my life because that would inherently mean that it was not good enough to begin with, so that's why I was working on it. Taylor: (14:15) And it was this weird head fuck of like, wow! I'm so fascinated by this and I'm getting results but I can't talk about it because people would think I'm weird and I've got to be perceived as doing it all right. And so that was one of the ceilings that I had to break through and realise no, actually it's really important to talk about this stuff. If you have close friends you can talk to about it great, but if not talking to a therapist or something. Getting it so that it's more than just you. So it was more than just me spreading that sphere of awareness out to where it started to become actually of my life in general and not just this little bubble inside my head and my body. Mason: (14:56) Yeah. The two gears around sex. I know a lot of people in the circles will probably take for granted the fact that people have a little bit more liberal with the way that they're able to actually share themselves but still the of aussie culture is either one of bravado and just sharing and we have the steel curtain and bamboo curtain of Russia and China I feel like there's a velvet curtain around sex when we talk where it's just... And that way that we just imply a bravado of decide it's amazing. It's great and quite often it is, or you in Australia or you take the piss out of yourself in terms of there's a faux pride in the fact that you only lasted two seconds and you can laugh it off and have a joke about it. Mason: (15:52) Which is to be honest I find for comedic purposes it's really fun and.. Taylor: (15:57) Yeah. Totally. Mason: (15:58) And I like talking about sex in both those ways. But what I'm finding more and more is the extent of how uncomfortable it is for a guy to start talking about sex. I think the fact that you brought up a therapist is really great because sometimes that's what I desire. I want to sit with someone who's just going to receive, not try and fix me or give me suggestions a lot of the time. But when you come down to talking to other guys around sex, what's the path of least resistance? What are some of those divots that the water runs into that is slightly uncomfortable that you can ease into having a conversation that's relevant for a friendship, is going to be able to start breaking the ice around that topic that you see as useful to a useful direction to take. Taylor: (16:54) Yeah. Yeah. That's a damn good question. And I would say approached with great intentionality especially if you're somebody who's feeling sensitive about this stuff, you want to be really intentional with who you open up to and share at first. We'll tell you build this foundation of confidence and support with it. And I would say if you are feeling vulnerable or are struggling with something, before you just dive into it with somebody ask a buddy of yours, hey man, you could say something like, hey brother, I've been having this thing happened in my life it's around sex and I've been wanting somebody to talk to you about it. I'm wondering would you be willing to have a conversation with me about sex? And just without judgement , just to hear me out as a brother, as a friend. Just like an icebreaker are you open to doing that? And generally the answer you get is going to tell you a lot. Taylor: (17:51) Most people who are friends are going to say yes, absolutely and because you've approached with such intentionality you're setting the framework for a really great conversation to happen. And then it's your job after that to be vulnerable. But I always find that first asking the question and setting the container, setting the frame, if you will, for that conversation is a really big plus and then agreeing, to confidentiality upfront too. Mason: (18:18) Then you said again at the start of the process so we boxed out our sexuality, right? We've segmented the way which as we start to open up whether we're doing the practises that are in your course, whether we start sharing the therapist or a friend or a lover, slowly opening that box since it's got a lot of dust on it a lot of the time or it's just been got a big steel door that stops you from getting to it. As you slowly open that door, is it just going slow and being dedicated to inviting this part of you back in your life that will help it integrate with the rest of your body. Because I feel like there's a divide between really feeling how we've got this emotional self and this spiritual self and then sex is over here. Mason: (19:16) But that process of allowing our sexual energy, and sexual self, and our sex life to start integrating and bringing another dimension to our emotional self, to our spiritual self, our physicality, the way that we approach life in general, not that it has to dominate but this is more of a subtle question. So it's okay if you don't really have much to share on it but is there some just subtle tips because I feel like that divide, I think people are scared of having their sexuality all of a sudden come out and dominating their personality or their persona at times. Mason: (19:57) It's got an, how can you be sexual while still being socially appropriate, because there's nothing worse than someone, was talking the other day some people around the area and you meet them and shortly after they just can't wait to tell you about how they love being promiscuous and they love doing this and they love doing that. And then sometimes it's appropriate and other times it's just like, man, this just feels like peacocking and showboating. This is like another attempt to have an identity with like an external identity that people think is exotic. And again, I feel like it's a way of abusing your sexuality if you get attention. So how do we integrate sustainably this sexual energy without it being a huge jump in like how we're perceived or seen? Taylor: (20:48) Man, you just asked about 20 really good questions. Mason: (20:52) Sorry about that. Taylor: (20:53) No, it's great. It's great. I appreciate it, man. So many things to think about. One thing I wanted to touch on is you mentioned this fear of potentially being perceived as too much, too bravado in the sexuality department. There's also a fear of a lot of guys if you start doing tantric practises and you start doing Daoist practises, there's a fear that you're going to over feminise yourself as a term a lot of people use. You're soft and then you're not going to be able to show up with that fierceness in the bedroom that's so attractive and so healthy and so beautiful and awesome. So both of those fears are real. Taylor: (21:31) And when you talk about integrating the spiritual and the sexual this is something I've been thinking a lot about recently actually. And I would imagine a number of people listening to this, if you're listening you've probably heard of breathwork at least, right? Probably you've even tried a little bit of it- Mason: (21:52) Most likely everyone listening to this tribe you can quote breathwork, yeah. Taylor: (21:56) Awesome. Great. So three things here. Breathwork is in one little circle right here. You can't see it if you're listening but I'm holding up my hands in the Zoom and making a Venn diagram of sorts over here. And the other one is self-pleasure. And one thing I've been exploring is integrating breathwork into my self pleasure sessions. And so if you think about when you do a breathwork session, especially if it's any holotropic breathwork or Wim Hoff oriented thing or something more activating you feel a lot of sensations in your body, you might feel a shift in consciousness, you might feel feelings of oneness with everything, you might get downloads of ideas and inspiration that come from seemingly nowhere, and you feel expansive and connected with everything, right? That's that, you could call that the spiritual domain, if you will, you could call that the energetic domain. Taylor: (22:49) Over here in this other circle is sexuality and self-pleasure and sexual arousal and erotic energy and that sort of thing. And those two circles don't often get mixed. And when you develop a self pleasure practise and you're touching yourself and you're masturbating and you're exploring those sexual sensations, generally you're not having these same mind blowing expansive experiences that you do when you're doing a breathwork practise or you doing a long meditation or some sort of yogic thing or something like that. But if you start to play with integrating the two of them you can have some wild, wild amazingly beautiful experiences that are expansive and full of sexual pleasure at the same time. Taylor: (23:34) So all of a sudden you're experiencing this orgasmic sensation in your genitals, that's spreading through your body while you're also experiencing the expansiveness of this activating breathwork. And something about that, it's just creates a bridge and it starts to anchor that in your body. It started to anchor in my body and it really started to shift some things on a fundamental level integrating those two. Mason: (23:58) Man, yeah. I was just going through my own little internal journey there when you were sharing and just the realisation of, that it's such an obvious one. But what I can see for you, you need to repeat and you choose to repeat again and again and again, because it almost seems too simple to just continue to bring the breath and self-pleasure or lovemaking or just fucking wherever you are together. But that was actually what I'm realising. See in my mid '20s when I first started really diving into this world I really embraced, like hook line and sinker and that was my personality I was exploring. And so probably I went really far into but maybe becoming that person that was a little bit caught up in the identity of it and bringing that breathiness constantly not able to quite integrate with and be, multi-dimensional just like I'm just living in that sexual energy. Mason: (25:08) And so after a while I guess I've scared myself off it and especially running in a spiritual raw food community getting, looking at myself going, fuck, I'm a douchebag man. I'm just like, I don't want, why am I being like this all the time? There's that breathiness always there, I'm always trying just... I don't know what it was, but I just had that typical persona that I was expressing that really scared me off for a while because I just didn't feel there was so many parts of me that was being suppressed. And after the course we did I realised how uncomfortable I was mostly in my self pleasure but then as well in lovemaking, how uncomfortable I was to really connect to the deep breath and make sound. Mason: (26:00) That was probably the biggest breakthrough I had because then in lovemaking with that deep breathing which is 101 in tantric and Daoist practice, it just opened up this other world of connection with myself and with Tahnee that I just, it had been really been quite forgotten and it was really uncomfortable. I realised I needed to do everything I could to connect back with that part of myself. That's probably why I started getting a little bit into comedy on my own personal Instagram and literally taking the absolute piss out of myself when I was that person developed a whole character called the conscious cucumber and just tore him another one. Mason: (26:47) And it's funny people don't realise that's my process too.. So I can actually balance it out for as long as I need. So then I can integrate that part of me back in so I can continue to explore integrating my sexuality. So, yeah. Thanks for bringing it up man. And sorry for the long share everyone. I'll get back to letting Taylor talk. Taylor: (27:10) It's great, it's a good topic. And you said breath. Yeah. Yes. Breath is 101 but it's also 201, 301, 401- Mason: (27:17) Yeah you're right. Taylor: (27:17) ... and above. Mason: (27:21) Yeah. Well, go on man. Yeah. Taylor: (27:26) There's so many different aspects to mental health and sexuality for men. And you mentioned one that I'd love to go into a little bit too. You mentioned your relationship and I think relationship is a really big one, it definitely affects mental health, the success, or non-success of your relationship has a huge impact on your daily state of being. So I'd love to go in that direction if you're down to that. Cool. Alright. So just, personal, personal story, I'm in a relatively new relationship right now, we're about... Let's see, what month is it? It's October Jesus! It's October. So about six months in. Six months into this new relationship and it's beautiful and I'm under no illusion that it's going to be a cakewalk for the rest of our lives, but I'm definitely approaching it differently now than I have ever approached a relationship in the past. And from the very beginning treating it like a system that I'm putting energy into regularly. Taylor: (28:31) I think of it like you wouldn't drive a car for years without changing the oil or doing maintenance on it. So you need to put energy into a relationship. And so I find that the more energy I put into this relationship the more I get back in terms of my general mental health and my general mental wellbeing. And it's really beautiful feedback loop and feedback cycle. And I think back to other relationships, even shorter ones that I was in where I didn't have such a focus of intentionality that drained me in some ways or it took a lot of my awareness because I was focusing so much I don't really... I do I want to say that, I guess I'll just back up and say, it feels really good to treat the relationship as a system and regularly put energy and get energy out from that. And I'm guessing you had a similar experience when you were approaching lovemaking with your partner while working on your sexuality. Mason: (29:27) Mm-hmm (affirmative). Absolutely. I'm interested to hear... I know you bumped up against like, all right, how do I describe this? But I am slightly interested if you want to take some time to explore how you feel like you had approached it. The relationship even though they weren't bad. Now approaching it as the system or a living system, but what were the key differences there and how you approached a relationship and sex before that was in contrast. Taylor: (29:58) Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. So a big one, a huge one and I still have little pieces of this in me that I'm working to get rid of but, a big one is I used to have this huge belief that, oh, if you find the one, then the relationship is just going to be great and it's just going to work and you're not going to argue, and it's going to be beautiful for years and years to come. And that myth is... And you laugh. Yeah. And I laughed too and probably if you're listening, you're laughing too, but you better damn well believe you've been programmed with that idea too. Mason: (30:33) Well, that's for me even though I'm not abandoned to the idea of twin flames, so on and so forth, but that is inherently at the marketing soul of the twin flame is you can rest on your laurels a little bit because you guys have a soul contract and connection. And that's why there's so much dysfunction in relationships in spiritual circles. Taylor: (30:57) Mm-hmm (affirmative). God, man. I feel at the risk of tangenting I'll just say this briefly, the whole twin flame concept bugs the shit out of me, honestly. I see it mostly because when I see people talk about it, it sounds like they're coming from this really codependent place. Just like what you were saying, oh, our two souls are one and they're not having any sovereignty in their own relationship. At least what I've seen, maybe if you're listening and you're in a relationship you would call it twin flame, you feel it's totally balanced and everything that's great. But I don't think there is this one entity that you have a soul contract with. I think there's a lot of really amazing humans out there that you could have a beautiful loving relationship with should you choose to do so. Should you choose to put in that work. Taylor: (31:48) And I think you're right, in a lot of spiritual communities you see a lot of relationship dysfunction, a lot of spiritual bypassing and I think part of it is because this whole romanticised idea of there being a one partner for you gets mixed in with these grandiose spiritual ideas of oneness also. And it gets like all sorts of muddy. Mason: (32:13) It gets so muddy, doesn't it? Okay. There's someone I can talk to the fact that Tahnee and I, when we first got together we had some experiences that were huge and we felt cosmic and there was a feeling of, how did we find each other in this big wide universe? There's something right about this and magical about this and what I feel I was able to do yet. I had to detox that attachment to that and a using of that to validate the fact that I didn't have to work. And this extreme disappointment when things just didn't work out beautifully, I've realised that what I'm not saying to do when I poo poo through the long term twin flame justification or whatever other thing you want to talk about is, can you have that experience, allow it to be beautiful and felt, and then as that starts to fall away, and some of those initial hormones, neurotransmitters start to fall away, we hit the plateau about next as we've talked about with semen retention, that next space can you not in retrospect judge and put meaning onto what that experience was. Mason: (33:33) Can you leave it exactly where it is and then allow yourself to move on, get over yourself, let that be there, it was beautiful. And then just go and start from scratch in terms of realising you are not entitled, it doesn't mean anything, it was meant what it meant back then, now get to fucking work. You're a human, you're in a relationship and that doesn't affect how you're going to have to work and love and evolve in your relationship long term. Taylor: (34:02) Yeah and spiritual practise is not always blissful. And this is another big thing I see for people who are in the consciousness communities, spiritual communities. There's this idea that if you're on your spiritual path you're going to be having blissful experiences all the time. And like, no. Some of the least happy people are the people I see who regularly seek bliss, who regularly seek enlightenment and don't dive into the depths of their challenges and work through them. It's like, you're not talking about the hard stuff because the hard stuff is not blissful but that leads to a lot of isolation and at least to a lot of depression. Taylor: (34:45) And I'm one of my best friends actually committed suicide about 10 years ago. And he was seen as this huge light being was a word a lot of people use to describe this guy. He was a huge bright light of consciousness, always blissful in public, always blissful, always singing songs, always the centre of attention in the party and that thing. And what people didn't see was when he went into his dark spaces, because then he just went to bed in his room and locked himself in there for four or five days until he could come out and be blissful again. And that's some real shit. Spiritual practise is not just the bliss, it's being real with yourself. What's actually happening in your life? What are you actually dealing with? What are you suffering with? Don't hide it from anybody but more importantly, don't hide it from yourself. And if something is going on find somebody to talk to you about it, find somebody to connect with about it, because life is short and it's not worth it. Mason: (35:53) Yeah. Life short but then you're going to take that as you're saying, not looking constantly for the peak experiences get back into that. It's a long game as well. It's short and that you play the long game chop wood, carry water- Taylor: (36:09) Chop wood. Mason: (36:11) Yeah. Sorry to hear about your mate as well. It's always been that close to that experience because we can laugh off the fact and I think in the community, there's so many people around, there's so many influences around that they get caught up in the public persona. For me I used to refer to it as my stage persona and that's what I became immeshed with. We immeshed in our social media persona, how we're seen in the community at our dance events, just the people in corporate, how you turn up in the office, whatever it is then everyone's like yeah cheering, you're so good when you're like this. And you're like, all right, I got to be like that all the time. Mason: (36:54) We laugh about it and I feel like a little bit of satire is necessary to help shake people out of it and not take themselves too seriously but it gets serious. It can get really serious really quick when you get a inmeshed in that external identity. And then you feel the pressure to obtain that all the time and then that becomes unsustainable. It's a huge issue and needs to constantly be addressed. So thanks for sharing that and bringing it up. Taylor: (37:20) Yeah. Yeah. For sure. Yeah. I was just like, oh, where to go from here? Mason: (37:37) Yeah. If you want to just take it in any direction, you're your vibe and go for it. Taylor: (37:44) There's a couple of things I wrote down that I think would be fun just to put in here, just maybe even bullet points for people who are listening to go experiment with these things and try things out. In the context of relationship, one tool that I've found that has completely transformed all of my romantic relationships and my relationship with my family is studying nonviolent communication and practising that and putting it into use in my relationships. And yes, it might sound and feel clunky at first. And yes, there's potential for misuse of nonviolent communication, but it's also so fucking effective. It's unbelievably effective. If you put in the time to learn it and use it, it just opens up so much. Taylor: (38:30) And like to make the analogy and some people say, oh, don't learn NBC because you could misuse it or something like that. But don't people don't say to not use knives because they're sharp and you could accidentally cut yourself. A knife is a very useful tool. And when used intelligently it makes your entire life much easier. And non violent communication could be one of those things. Mason: (38:57) We've had our whole crew trained at SuperFeast. We took two days out to do a workshop and what I would tell everyone is just to keep on going through that clunky stage when you're getting used to the process of looking past what are they actually feeling? What are they actually wanting to communicate? Because it can feel a little uncomfortable using this scripted language at first to get to what you're actually feeling. And you feel a bit of... Sorry to use the word douche but that's the only word. That's how I felt it at times lame, but if you stay consistent the framework remains, but you find the languaging, it's very effective. You find your own language in your own unique way to express it. So I just like, yeah, thought I'd throw that in there as well and I'm with you man, because otherwise it just remains confusion in the relationship. Taylor: (39:59) Yeah. That's a big one for sure. And another thing that I love doing that I didn't used to do, so I'm heterosexual and I'm in relationship with women. And I find that if I'm in tune with my partner's menstrual cycle and I connect with her around that and talk about it even. That brings a whole another beautiful level of connection to our relationship and it adds to my life, it creates more generative energy from the relationship because we're not using any hormonal birth control or the pill or anything like that. Only condoms, very occasionally right around the ovulation time, but somehow being aware of her cycle and being aware of those tides in some ways makes us both more reverent to the power of life that lies within us and to the beauty of our connection as animals. The potential for procreation even though we're choosing not to right now it adds reverence to that. Taylor: (41:00) And I can tell ,whenever I mentioned something about her cycle like, oh, wow! So you're about to be ovulating in a couple of days or you're about to start your cycle. I see her reaction of one being like, oh, wow! You're paying attention to this important part of my life and maybe no other partner has ever done that before. And it feels amazing and yeah, just wanted to put that out there too. That's a really fun thing to do. Mason: (41:26) Yeah. It's so funny you bring that up as well. I've been thinking about it, it's something I consider myself... Again, if I jump into my identity I'm like, somewhat understand that cycle, I've learned a bit about it and the seasonality of it. But I found myself going, where are you at, at the moment? And she had a laugh about how I wasn't aware of where she was at and well, not in a mean way but just have a little bit of a fun little jab of how we ignorant I was to something that was so avert and affects our life so much. Mason: (42:12) And after my pride got a backhand and I felt I was like, dude, I talk about being tapped into seasonality of the nature around me and I'm not tapped into the seasonality that's there in my own house. And therefore able to have seasonality in the way that I'm approaching sex or affection with Tahns stuff. Yeah. Thanks for bringing that up again, because there's another thing I didn't mean to say that there's another thing that I'm doing, but that thing is actually an absolute pleasure. And I think you're right. You drop that one on Valentine's Day in terms of, I know where you're at and I know what mood you're going to be at different times of the month and how we're and generally how we're going to approach it. That's maybe write a poem about it. Taylor: (43:06) Yeah. It's just a good thing to be aware of. And yeah, I like what you said about the cycles of things. God, yeah. It all ties into mental health. Yeah, this all ties into mental health. One other thing that I'm really excited about that I'm working on right now for couples is, well, I'll start this by saying, I've done a lot of workshops around tantra and Daoist sexuality and sacred sexuality and just sex in general around the world. And some of them I've done with various partners at the time. And I remember sometimes when there's 30 or 40 or 50 people in a room and I'm sitting there with my partner and we're learning these techniques, there's no way I'm going to utilise them to the fullest extent possible with her in this room. It's not happening, not happening at all. Taylor: (43:56) And I've gotten a lot of requests for stuff for couples to explore their sexuality together. So I've been working on recently this course and I'm calling it the ecstatic lovers course, and it's basically a guided workshop for couples to do in the privacy of their own bedroom to explore practical tantra and erotic touch and different touch and conscious objectification and taking a pleasure and expressing desires and practising expression desires and all this stuff in a really beautiful ritualistic container that... Yeah, I'm super stoked about, I'm really, really stoked about. And I see this as something that people could do. If you're wanting to add to your relationship do something generative that's going to bring the two of you together because a relationship is a system. You could do something like that. Taylor: (44:51) An intentional date night where you set three hours aside and you go through a process together intentionally for the sake of your relationship and deepening your connection and learning and growing together. Maybe that's this course, or maybe it's something else, but the idea of setting aside an intentional time to do something for your relationship will add a lot to your life too. Mason: (45:13) I'd throw in there just in case I just got the spidey sense that someone might be sitting back there gone, oh, maybe that's something I can't do right now, because I'm nowhere near semen retention and I haven't really done much before. You just want to talk to about what the intent of the course is and the levels of where people would need to be at. Taylor: (45:29) Got it. Yeah. So the course has absolutely nothing to do with semen retention and it could be for two female relationship, two male relationship, any gender, any sexual orientation for that course. But basically I'm creating it because I've found that even still into my early '30s I had a lot of trouble being aware of what my real desires were and actually asking for them in relationship. Really getting in touch with what I really wanted to try, sexual fantasies, sexual desires, experiences that I wanted to have. And I had some shame around asking for those things. And so part of this course is to help you and your partner really get in touch with what is it that you're actually desiring and how can you share it with each other in a way that will be received well and a way that will be exciting. And then how can you actually do those things in a fun way? Taylor: (46:30) So that's one main part of it. And another main part of it is exploring two different fundamental kinds of touch. And it's hard to say just how revolutionary this was for me without actually experiencing it in your body. But if you think about it when you're massaging somebody's shoulders, right? You're obviously giving to them, they're obviously receiving the touch and that's great. It feels good, you feel good because you're giving to them, they feel good because they're receiving the touch. But what if you slide your hands down their back and you start to grab their ass, that's a different touch, right? And if you don't talk about it with the person it will probably feel weird that the person whose shoulders you're massaging because that's usually a boundary for people unless you're in relationship. Taylor: (47:19) And even if you're in relationship it could feel weird, but so this course goes into the differences of those two things and then how to fully own the desire of ass grabbing. And how to own the desire of fully ravishing your partner for your own pleasure. A lot of women's fantasies generally speaking, are to be just taken and ravaged and ravished in a safe way. In relationship they want this to happen in a safe way and so this course goes into how to do that and how to receive that also on all sides of the gender and... Yeah, sex. Mason: (48:03) So good. Taylor: (48:04) That's a lot of words. It's really amazing when I learned this stuff it fundamentally changed my entire sex life forever, it is incredible. Mason: (48:15) I'm going to be jumping on board, man. I think I've mentioned to you earlier that's something since I don't have to be there for live calls on it which is what really works for me. I'll hook this up for the honeymoon thing. That'd be something great to take in there late in November this month when we're putting this out there Brovember. Just to take a tone, I just want to quickly touch on a topic which we might need to jump on to for another podcast later down the track. But there's been a huge embracing of sexual toys, sexual tools for women. I feel like crystal wands, dildos in general and even in just sexual health tools like jade eggs, et cetera. It's quite alright, it's been embraced. Mason: (49:10) Not for men though. It's in your course and your same retention course you do touch on the tools and toys for the boys. And I just thought if you're happy just to touch on that there, how long is gonna be, is it time for that to become something a little bit more accepted in your eyes? Is it worth the guys getting on for the toys and what are some of the toys that you prefer? Taylor: (49:44) Yeah. That's a damn good question. Thanks for bringing that up. It is crazy, man. And as you were saying that I was thinking to myself, I was trying to imagine a crystal vagina and I was like, that wouldn't really work as well. It wouldn't be the same. But you're right, there has been this whole embrace and celebration of toys for women's pleasure and nothing like that for men. And there's almost this ew weird gross idea around men's sex toys. Even still in a lot of conscious communities that's kinda crazy. So without hypothesising why that is, I just want to say fuck that, and I want to break those stories and just say, man, get yourself a sex toy, get yourself a Fleshlight, get yourself a butt plug, get yourself a vibrator- Mason: (50:37) Fleshlight for a second. Taylor: (50:38) Yeah. Okay. Sorry. Yeah. I think Fleshlight might actually be a brand versus some people call them pocket pussies, but you call it a male masturbator. So basically there's a tube and on the end of it is this nicely shaped silicone pussy with the insides and you can have sex with it. You can put your penis inside it, move it in and out, and it feels much better than your hand could ever feel. And I'm a huge fan of these things. I sent out an email and I even have an article on my website, five reasons to own one of these things taylorjohnson.life, go check it out. But yeah, it feels amazing and fun story. Taylor: (51:26) I took one of mine to a party once in Asheville last year. And if you don't know what I'm talking about go look up an image of one of these things just so you have an idea of what I'm talking about. I took one to a party and this theme of the party was show up as somebody's like, it's really uncomfortable. And so I showed up with a Fleshlight tucked into my belt sticking out for everybody to see and a six pack of really shitty beer and an ugly ass, polo shirt and short shorts and all this stuff and it was amazing actually. I was expecting people to be grossed out, even in Asheville I was expecting them to be grossed out by this Fleshlight. And some people initially were, there was this fascinating layer where at first people were like, oh, nasty, have you had sex with that? And I was like yeah, actually. I have, it's been great. Taylor: (52:22) But after that hump, people were fascinated by it. And I could say 99% of the people that were at that party put their fingers inside it and wanted to touch it. One woman put it up to her lips and tried to play it like a trombone. There was this huge fascination by it. And so I'd like to think that that's indicative of how people really feel about male sex toys. Maybe there's some layer of shame or weirdness at first, but I think underneath is this like deep excitement and fascination for everything that people might just be afraid to say upfront. And I really learned that at that party everybody was super stoked to see it and touch it and learn about it. And I talked for a long, long time about it. Mason: (53:10) Man. I reckon that's a good step for guys to be taking again, maybe good Christmas present. I think it's a bit different. The taboo is a bit different because when I bought mine what you're inundated with is poket pussies designed around the porn industry. So I think it's a little bit more that space is a little bit more dominated or has the infiltration of that porn energy rather than we're seeing such an embracing of say more of a conscious sexual approach to the women's toys now more and more coming about. But anyway, that's kinda shifting, I think I can see it changing a bit. Taylor: (53:53) Yeah. And I think it's important to treat it like it's an item, right? It's a tool, this thing doesn't show up to your doorstep imbibed with the energy of porn. This thing is just physical particulate matter that's in a shape that you can use, right? So in my course I encourage people to bring their intentionality and bring their conscious awareness into their self pleasure with one of these pocket pussies. Use it in a specific way while you're doing the microcosmic orbit, while you're breathing and practise circulating your energy while you're thrusting your hips in and out in a way that you could never do with just your hand. So it has utilitarian value as well. And you can bring your consciousness to it and just to [crosstalk 00:54:36]... Go on. Mason: (54:38) I was just affirming. Go for it. Taylor: (54:40) Yeah. Yeah. It's good. And just to do a quick plug for butt plugs, yeah. Yeah man, anal pleasure. There's so much pleasure to be had in that region. And there's so much shame and so much baggage it but I'm all for it. And if you're a guy and you've never received a blow job while somebody is stimulating your prostate internally you're missing out on one of the most incredible sexual experiences you could possibly have. Just try it. It's fucking amazing. Make sure they've trimmed their fingernails first and do a little bit of research beforehand just so what you're doing and so they know what they're doing, but wow. It's incredible. Mason: (55:24) Yeah. Yeah. And there is a lot of baggage around that topic which is why I think it's nice. When you bring it up again, it's like a long game. I feel every '90s sitcom has got these intense jokes about if you're touching or your ass touches another guy's ass just how much of a taboo thing that is to do. And that is funny but something seeped into the psyche of the generation that if you have go anywhere near your ass it's just... People who aren't homophobic, but nonetheless there's something of just like, well, what does this mean about me? If I enjoy that, to lean into that area whether it's something you want to do or not I think it's definitely worth breaking that knee jerk reaction around that area and creating a little bit more freedom and less story for yourself. I love that you bring that up, man. Taylor: (56:25) Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. And yeah, it is funny to laugh about it and I do laugh at those jokes too. And there is a subtle shame or subtle fear that has snuck in with all that stuff too. And it has deeply affected my life and it's deeply affected the lives of a lot of guys to like, how fucked up is it that somebody feels fear and shame for touching a part of their own body in a pleasurable way. Really, what kind of society does that? That's just so unfortunate to me that one area of our body is off limits because it's bad or because it's going to mean something about your sexuality, when it doesn't mean anything, it just means you're touching your body in a way that feels good. And you're a human with pleasure receptors everywhere and there's actually, there's a nerve that runs down to your anus that's connected to the nerve that runs to the tip of your penis. I believe it's the pudendal nerve and it's those same pleasure waves get stimulated up the same nerve pathway to your brain. So there's just so much potential there to be explored. Taylor: (57:33) And obviously you don't have to, if you don't want to, but like, why not? Mason: (57:39) Yeah. A lot of meaning placed a lot of religious thought, that's a good thing that we've got a hang over of, a lot of Catholic guilt. So if there's a lot of people it's going to be a journey to free us all from ideology and find your own sovereign connection to yourself and life. Taylor: (58:02) Absolutely. So let me just give you listening just one example, it's going to a little auditorily graphic, but just for me personally, I love women. I find women so incredibly attractive. I'm in relationship with a woman right now and also I love receiving anal pleasure. I love that my girlfriend puts her finger inside of me, I love using anal toys, I love exploring that side of myself. I even got my girlfriend as a present, I got her a strap on a month ago and we've tried it having her actually fuck me. And it felt incredible and it felt amazing. And it wasn't this her dominating me in this... How do I want to describe it? Some people fear strap on sex to receive because it'll mean that they're less of a man or that I don't know something weird. Taylor: (58:59) It was this really amazing way of just energetically receiving my girlfriend and to be laying on my back having her penetrate me with her breasts and my face and her hair like falling all over me. And it was incredible and it felt magical and super erotic and sexy. And I can say clearly that after all this anal pleasure, I still absolutely love going down on and having sex with women and I'm super attracted to them. And it hasn't changed my sexual orientation at all. If anything it's made me so much more comfortable and confident because now I'm not afraid that something is going to happen if I do this thing. Mason: (59:37) Proof is in the pudding, as they say man yeah thanks for bringing it up. It seems like such a huge taboo and such a massive leap like "Oh my god I can't believe I'm even thinking or talking about this" And it's like, oh it's actually not that big of a deal. It is in terms of freedom of thought and freedom from ideology. Again, whether it's something you do or not it's not like an ideal thing to do or ideal thing not to do, but yeah. Yeah. You can take the charge away from it all of a sudden, it's just a little bit freer potential to have pleasure is increased and connection is increased a little bit. So a lot to me that you're on their, lot for everyone to chew on I imagine. Mason: (01:00:29) But dude I really appreciate it, I love our chats. Yeah. Obviously everyone loves our chats as well, I do encourage. I'm really looking forward to the ecstatic lovers course. I think it's a beautiful time for everyone to be jumping on board of that as well especially post Covid, we've all been taken away from the world a little bit and coming back to our homes, and human connection, and it's worth not losing that as the world opens up more and more. This is a great way to ensure that we're maintaining that connection riding off the back of it. Yeah, taylorjohnson.life, did you say? Taylor: (01:01:09) Mm-hmm (affirmative). Yeah, taylorjohnson.life/ecstatic-learners-course, but there is a link to it on my main website too. Mason: (01:01:17) Yeah. Cool. And we'll have all the show notes there for people to find your website, man, thanks so much. Taylor: (01:01:25) Yeah. Thank you. This has been awesome. I love our chats, I love round two. Maybe we'll have around three another year from now but- Mason: (01:01:31) Yeah. Well I hope so. Let's see how we go. Let's see what comes up. Is there any last little message you want to leave everyone with? Taylor: (01:01:43) Last message I want to leave people with right now for Brovember. Yeah. I just want to say be real with yourself, be real with your desires, be real with your suffering, be real with your pain, just be real. Don't hide anything from yourself and feel free to fully explore every part of you because you are an amazing human that's alive on the fucking planet that's floating through space like, holy shit! Explore everything you want to explore because life is short and yeah, it's worth living to the fullest. Mason: (01:02:22) I love it, man. Thank you so much. Taylor: (01:02:23) That's it. Thank you brother, thank you all, peace.

Let's Talk Brovember Special - Toxic Masculinity Feat. Jessica and Jalelle

Play Episode Listen Later Feb 13, 2020 90:48

Toxic Masculinity....does it exist? todays episode dives into our opinions on the matter in true Lets Talk fashion. Joining us today is Podcast regular Jessica, and for her debut, Jalelle from Sista to Sista (@sista_to_sista). As always send us reviews, topic suggestions or just say hi at either our Gmail letstalkpod19@gmail.com or on instagram @letstalk_pod. Episode beer(Drink) : White Claw Black Cherry

gmail toxic masculinity sista brovember

Let's Talk Brovember Special - Manhood (Then and Now) feat. Zara

Play Episode Listen Later Feb 5, 2020 80:56

Its been called No Shave November, No Nut November (in recent years) but here and now on Lets Talk, we have dubbed it...(pause for effect)...Brovember! In celebration of men, we diving into everything that we can fit in about the men of the world. This week we break down our views on what it means to be a man. Opinions are given, laughs are shared and overall more good conversation is had. We are excited to bring you this months content and we genuinly hope you all enjoy it as well. As always contact us through our gmail or dm us on our instagram with topic suggestions, feedback or even just to say hi, then grab your favorite drink, join us back here and Lets Talk! Episode Beer: Victoria Episode Guest(s): Zara

manhood no nut november no shave november brovember

Let's Talk Brovember Special - Bro-code Part 1 - Feat. Art and G (Gerardo)

Play Episode Listen Later Feb 5, 2020 78:39

We're back with another episode of Let's Talk and today we get into some of the aspects of Bro code. From where you stand when you enter a public bathroom to who is in fact considered a bro, we touch base on the rules of being a guy in everyday life. as part of our celebration dubbed Brovember, we invet you all as always to grab a drink, join us on you favorite counch and Let's Talk! Beer review brought to you from Dudes Brewing Co. in Torrance Episode Guest(s): Art Paz G (Gerardo Jimenez)

beer bro bro code brovember

Let's Talk Brovember Special - Bro-code Part 2 - Feat. Art and G (Gerardo)

Play Episode Listen Later Feb 5, 2020 96:37

We couldn fit everything in one episode so we gave it another go. Bro Code part two for your listening enjoyment. Art and G are back for more topics, more beer and more great conversation. As always follow us on instagram or contact us both through instagram or our gmail with topic suggestions, reviews or just to say "Hi. Let's Talk!"

art bro code brovember

Mark Bunn: Is A Better Love Life The Secret To Improving Men's Health?

A Higher Branch

Play Episode Listen Later Nov 28, 2019 48:45

In this weeks podcast SAm Makhoul is joined again by Mark Bunn - a leading health researcher of Ayurvedic Medicine. In light of Movember, now commonly referred to as Brovember, Mark shares his expertise on a topic that is not discussed enough: men's health. Men are often reluctant to vocalise health issues they may be facing due to outdated social constructs, resulting in the fear of appearing weak and often using the justification that "it's probably nothing”. To address and dispel these common yet damaging beliefs, in this episode Sam and Mark cover: How to re-centre and return to a state of self love Prostate health Importance of intimacy and affection The Ayurvedic view on self-gratification How sleep affect men's virility The importance of testosterone Make sure you subscribe to our mailing list to receive our newly released podcasts straight to your inbox. Sign up here. Short for time? See below timestamps for key talking points: 02:40 - Why our energy dips 05:30 - The importance of testosterone 10:52 - How to keep your estrogen levels down 18:00 - Is self-gratification natural and should men watch pornography? 25:20 - How men should transmute their virility to build wealth 28:50 - How sunbathing men's private parts increases testosterone 32:20 - The importance of testosterone - especially for men who workout 41:25 - Is monogamy natural?

health men secret improving love life movember bunn ayurvedic medicine better love brovember

#45 Sexuality and Libido with Nick Perry

Play Episode Listen Later Nov 13, 2019 73:09

Continuing with our focus on men's health this month, we've got Nick Perry on the show. Nick works as holistic lifestyle coach and a corrective exercise specialist. With a special interest in men's health, Nick loves to take a holistic approach. Exploring the relationship between the physical, spiritual, mental and emotional bodies and how they relate to sexual health and our expression of life in general. Today is a juicy one folks! Tune in to hear Mason and Nick journey through the multidimensional landscape of sexuality and libido. Nick and Mason discuss: Libido as a messenger, what is your body trying to tell you? Personal practice and self inquiry as pillars of health and wellness. Sexuality and sexual practice. Insecurity and cock shame. Self love, what does that term mean for each of us individually? How libido serves us beyond the bedroom. Who is Nick Perry? Nick Perry is a Holistic Lifestyle Coach, Corrective Exercise Specialist and Remedial Massage Therapist who is passionate and driven by authentic relating and inspired living. Nick’s education in Corrective Holistic Exercise Kinesiology (CHEK) draws from personal mentoring and learning from some of the world’s leading healers and physical therapists. Known for his deep presence and down-to-earth nature, Nick’s goal when working with clients is to leave them feeling empowered and aligned in themselves - physically, mentally, emotionally and spiritually. Resources: Nick's Website Nick's Instagram Nick's Facebook ManKind Project Australia Q: How Can I Support The SuperFeast Podcast? A: Tell all your friends and family and share online! We’d also love it if you could subscribe and review this podcast on iTunes. Or check us out on Stitcher :)! Plus we're on Spotify! Check Out The Transcript Here: Mason Taylor: (00:00) Nick. Thanks so much for being here with me in Brovember. Nick Perry: (00:04) Thanks for having me, Brother. Mason Taylor: (00:06) I was trying to kind of tracking back and trying to figure out how, we've known each other since back in the days of the Frenches Forest Market. Nick Perry: (00:13) Frenches Forest Markets. That's what I was going to say. That was the center point for us. We were kind of like ships in the night. Nick Perry: (00:20) Our paths would cross, we'd dig each other's vibe but that- Mason Taylor: (00:24) A word wasn't passed.. Nick Perry: (00:27) Stop, that bro down never happened, did it? You know when it was, you might not remember this, but the first time that we got a moment together was at a flower, that was like a Shamanic Dance ceremony and Carmen Moratas what was running it and I got to chat with you and it was literally like weeks before you moved up and started this Odyssey of yours, coming up here. That was the time where it was like sick [crosstalk 00:00:54]. Mason Taylor: (00:54) I brought my mum. Nick Perry: (00:55) [crosstalk 00:00:55] your mum, yep. Mason Taylor: (00:56) Brought mum, and I had just gotten back from Peru where I bumped into Carmen at Machu Picchu. We had that kind of connection going on, which was amazing because it kind of made Machu Picchu for us, and she gave us the Coca leaf and taught us how to sit there in prayer specifically on that mountain, and the spots to do it and how to weave in your intention in your prayer. Until I got back and Adrian, you know Adrian, the human flower? Nick Perry: (01:21) Yeah. Mason Taylor: (01:22) As soon as you said flower I was like, all right, it's something that Adrian was at. Nick Perry: (01:25) He was definitely there. Mason Taylor: (01:27) Actually remind me, I've got some of his new Agua Florida, which is called Medicina, the flower water, just ceremonial flower water, the ones coming out of Peru often like petrochemicals. Nick Perry: (01:38) The yellow bottle. Mason Taylor: (01:39) The yellow one where we all have, you've sat in ceremony, you have that memory of just having it like spat all over you. They've got one that's just pumping, it is incredible. I'll give you some after but finally, we're actually getting a good chance to sit down and chat. Do you want us to give everyone a bit of a rundown of what you get up to with yourself? I'm sure that can be succinct if you want in general, but I'm sure it'll kind of come out in the wash in the interview. Nick Perry: (02:06) I suppose. I'll just give a little bit of background about myself for context's sake. I'm not just some dude. My name's Nick Perry. I work as a holistic lifestyle coach and a corrective exercise specialist. In the last couple years, I've been very involved in men's work specifically. The way that I like to operate is very holistically. It just absolutely makes sense to me to factor in and to explore and to incorporate things of matters of spirituality, of the emotional bodies, of the mental body and the physical form and how we live and relate in this plane of existence with one another. That's my jam and that's my deep passion, and everything that sort of offshoots from that. I'm like nutrition for example. I heard you say earlier on when we were chatting, like hormonal regulation and some of the feedback of life shows up in so many different ways. Biochemistry is just one of the myriad. I like to get around things in a very holistic sense. That's sort of how I work and what I'm interested in. Mason Taylor: (03:18) There's a couple of things you'll touch on then. I think it'd be really nice to be able to come down back to a pillar, you know there's many pillars, a pillar in this chat. If we can keep on coming back to that concept of libido and rather than widening everyone's perspective and men's relationship with what that is deepening the concept. I feel like that'd be a nice place to continue to come back to. Especially, I wouldn't mind getting into, what I think is really fascinating is that integrative, that conversational aspect of body, emotions, your intellect and your mind and then your spirit, your essential cells. I got something I'd definitely recently, I feel like I've gotten a bit more conversation between all those aspects in myself and, but just over the years, that's always been my biggest trip up, in where my deepest patterns can come over and just start ruling my life is when I have this huge inner turmoil, when fighting between these two segments of my life. Especially if one's run off. If my mind and my morality and my logic is run off and created an identity for myself. Mason Taylor: (04:25) Then I realize that I've gone too far and I don't know how to get back. That can happen with diet, that can happen with ideology, or whatever it is. You come off center, naturally for me especially when you get a little bit older, you see that's going to be one of the core things that starts bottoming out libido, right? Nick Perry: (04:44) Most definitely. That's a beautiful, I suppose entry into what we're talking about because libido is feedback, and it's nice because it's very clear. It's either we're turned on or we're not. If we became a bit more objective around that, and removed the stigmas and the definitions of, I'm horny or I'm not horny, and became more observant of our own inner libido, we can actually nurture a very healthy relationship with a low libido and see the value in that as a feedback mechanism. It's like, okay, I'm noticing that my life force has decreased, to the point that my body has in a way decommissioned my sex drive. That's a gift, that's one of the most loving things the body could do for us is to say, "Hey, pay attention. Where are you making your choices from? Why are you burning the candle so low? Whose values are you expressing?" It can be our home base, it can bring us back in. The thing that I really like about libido and sex drive is, it's a difficult one to repress or to ignore. It screams us- Mason Taylor: (06:02) That's a good point. Nick Perry: (06:03) ... to the face particularly because culturally we're so, to a degree sexually geared, and then biologically we're sexually geared obviously, which is what we are speaking to now. Instinctually we're sexually geared as well, to honor high libido but also to honor low libido is a very valuable thing to cultivate for every single individual in my opinion. Mason Taylor: (06:28) You mean the state, the fluctuating nature within ourselves or in different men in different situations? Nick Perry: (06:35) I think just as a simple barometer, as a simple feedback tool. I know, for example, I use myself as an example. I know if I'm horny, I'm well rested, you got it? If I don't have sex drive, or the desire to ravish, then that's an indicator to me that my Qi's running low. That I've kind of betrayed myself to an extent in that I've traded in my health for some other sort of gain. I've lost the awareness, and I've lost the equilibrium and that low libido is indicating that to me. It helps me refine my center, reflect on the choices that I've made over the last four weeks, for example. Then I get the opportunity then, to cultivate a more honest relationship with myself and the intention that's driving my actions. A pattern for me, subconsciously, which is sort of an expression of my wounded is overcompensating. Nick Perry: (07:39) I get to reflect and check in, fuck over the last month, has my inner child really been in the driver's seat or has it been more of my king energy. As my warrior and my lover of being present with me and my inner father figure for example. Or did I lose awareness and fall into that old way of being and the overcompensatory pattern that's mine. I see it in a lot of other people that I work with, and friends and family and whatnot. We've all got our thing, that's going to create outcomes, and it's an inauthentic way to live and be and relate. I need feedback to be able to see that. That's the wisdom of the body speaking to me. It does that in a myriad of ways. The libido is a very loud and clear one for me where, I know, I've been unaware or unconscious in my decisions and actions for some time because for it to get to a stage where my libido is dropped, it takes a bit. Mason Taylor: (08:39) Especially to overcome like biological markers as well, that would be there because you've essentially, this is really important. I know you talk about these pillars a lot, and I think we should probably get to it later in the chat. Hydration, movement, diet, breath, so on and so forth. All these things, which are so paramount, if you're rocking those, because we've both been patterned to just making sure that those things are rocking. Hydration, actually speaking of hydration, I'll pop some molecular hydrogen in your water there. Hydrogen, super antioxidant. However, that stealth anti androgenic libido smasher, I [inaudible 00:09:20] point to like, I can definitely speak for myself, those emotional patterns and those intellectual patterns you start taking on during childhood and start running wild. Mason Taylor: (09:28) Definitely got mine emotional, but even if I go to an intellectual pattern, for me that was just really thrashing lately. In the last couple of years even, was that what I've been trying to really get a handle on it and what emerges if that's in its place, is that trying to control how I'm perceived by other people at all times. Obsessively in thinking that maybe the mind is in any intellectual, get bored of this and get atrophied after a while. It's just not, I'll just keep on sucking all your energy and that what eventually happens is, we start leaking the Jing. If you don't have, you keep going with your lifestyle and keep on getting enough daily Qi to kind of keep on feeding this addiction, this way of being, or for me, I'd say it was a dysfunction when it's excessive, as you were saying as well with your emotional wounded child, but then at some point it starts leaking Jing. Mason Taylor: (10:20) If you're already walking on eggshells as well, that's going to just immediately just suck up all that libido and all those sexual juices and that, it's all right, so in that. Because that's for me, I realize I'm getting a little bit older, a little bit wiser. I've got my daily practices of breath, I'm working, we went down to the little gym area we've got here at SuperFeast, there's things to be doing, but what's the center? I don't give a shit about superficial outcomes anymore. I don't give a shit about achieving certain elements of flexibility and strength or endurance things anymore. That always led me to those inner patterns and that disharmony between my mind and my emotion that led me to that place where I would slowly be leaking Jing, and maybe I could still get it up, but it's still, I wasn't really able to embrace that fiery sexual essence of myself. Mason Taylor: (11:13) In that nature of chop wood, carry water consistency, what are you doing daily or what are your greatest takeaways from your journey so far that are allowing you to come back into harmony, daily so that you're getting to the source of what's possibly wiping out that essence to begin with? Nick Perry: (11:32) It's easier when we have rituals, and when rituals are tailored right. When we figure out what's right for us because the one I'm about to say, I'm not dogmatic about, what I'm about to share of my own rituals is what I have experimented with for a lot of years and had support in and it comes from a range of different ideologies and modalities, like TCM, man, the Taoists wanted to live forever. Mason Taylor: (12:00) Some schools. Nick Perry: (12:01) Yeah. Their practices are really enjoyed. Then it's like some of the Tantric stuff and the yogic stuff and it's about, and then my own sort of creative flow and expression. But, when I wake up in the morning, for example, what I find works for me is checking in with my thought forms. That's super important. Checking in like is fear alive in me? Am I starting the day with fear alive in me? If it's there, to not reject it but to inquire, like what am I afraid about? What am I anxious of? Where is this projection coming from? That would be my first port of call in entering into the day, making sure that I'm making it, taking actions that conducive to a high libido. That's where it begins. Next thing, it's like a little detox ritual that I like to do. Like tongue scraping, that's an Ayurvedic thing. Mason Taylor: (12:55) Hard hitting questions, copper or stainless steel? Nick Perry: (12:58) Oh, stainless steel. Mason Taylor: (13:02) I don't know which dosha that means that you have, but anyway [crosstalk 00:13:08] Nick Perry: (13:10) No, breathing and then hydration. There are those pillars. Breathing in, water and thoughts reign supreme as the top three. That's where I start. Mason Taylor: (13:19) When you're doing your, looking at your thought forms, I say this because you mentioned you were a wounded child when your inner child, which is I get to be reductionist about it is very much about feeling states. Do you tune in? Do you have a personal method for tuning in to how you're feeling, of a morning or is that something more that you find is consistently working on throughout the day? Nick Perry: (13:38) How do I access the awareness of those quieter pieces and those subconscious pieces? My way is through the body. I'll notice typically, if I have a bit of a trajectory fear, my energy goes, and it stays from my neck up and it's sort of sitting around my head. What I do is I consult all corners of my body. Just with the breath, that's how I direct my intention. I'll breath down and I'm like, Oh, I can't breathe into my solar plexus. It's so tight right now, it's gripped with fear. I'll just breathe in and start to sort of mobilise the energy and the physical symptom of that energy until it starts to sort of open and soften and let go. Then I'm like, what was that about? It's through the body that I make that inquiry. Rather than notice that my head's busy first thing in the morning, it's a new day, that I've pulled yesterday in today, you know, that's a bit weird what's going on. Nick Perry: (14:43) I can't really unravel that or redirect that from the head space, so I need to come back down into the body and kind of get the circulatory system, all that energy in motion, make sure it's moving and not hyperactive in certain areas or underactive in certain ways. Hopefully that answers your question. Mason Taylor: (15:02) It's such a broad question. It does answer it. I was just curious in your little tag. It's something I really noticed my own, if I'm going to trip up, it's because I'm not taking, at least if I don't have that practice present and I don't have that dedicated time, I'm very good at constantly, throughout the day, tuning in and checking out what's going on. But if life's too busy, that doesn't work, creating that spaciousness and they come in every tradition, whether it's Taoist or Yogic or Shamanic or indigenous anywhere and everywhere, including psycho spiritual, they're always having a spaciousness to do the same thing every day where, and my acupuncturist is just kind of like really getting in and tuning at the moment in terms of that, you want to know what chop wood and carry water is? Mason Taylor: (15:48) Imagine you're fucking chopping wood for the rest of your life. It's not going to always be super insightful. You are literally getting an insight. The whole nature of enlightenment is letting go of that insight and going back to the mundane of chopping that wood. It's not that exciting anymore. That concept is the same as when you tune in every morning, what's going on with your emotions and feeling in or however it is through your body. You said, then, when you like doing your release of your diaphragm, that feel and then you heard that, what's going on there? That might just seem like a rhetorical question, but I think what I can feel is that, that wasn't a rhetorical question. That's like an actual, alright, come on what's going on in here? What am I feeling? Mason Taylor: (16:26) That's always my little, if I trip up, it's if I don't have that time where I go, I think you're saying, that's what I like, I do wake up in the mind, all right, what's going on and where are these thought falls coming from? What do I need to do to bring freedom to that space? Then how am I feeling? How am I feeling? Then how's my body feeling? That's something I've been... you bringing this up, there's four aspects of self, and I'm turning up to my practice for me at the moment, and just really stopping and seeing and feeling what the body needs when it gets to that back clear point. Mason Taylor: (16:58) That has been the most incredible thing for the depths of my libido in that, allowing the emotions to be felt, allowing my intellect to actually be acknowledged. Then what's coming through, is that melting pot in that refinery of then the spirit coming through. But I just wanted to hit that, because next, then just get your little tidbits on that. That's rad. Mason Taylor: (17:20) Then we're going on to the fact that we're talking libido. We've opened up talking about this. A lot of people know Juliet Allen, your partner, your lover, because she's been on the podcast previously and three half years ago, four years ago, she was on my podcast and the SuperFeast once was the most listened to podcasts, it was a great podcast. Just talking about all the things, talking about hand jobs, talking about- Nick Perry: (17:43) All the cool things. Mason Taylor: (17:44) ... talking about all the cool things, talking about sexual cultivation. Everyone loved it. But now we've chatted about these concepts of having these parts in ourselves that can be fractured, coming together and unifying and being tended to. Basically what I wanted to talk about now that we've talked about that, for everyone to know it, but that's the first place we've started in talking about libido. Mason Taylor: (18:06) Now, let's start talking about the fact that there's some guys listening. They'll be like, whoa, your longterm partner is a sexologist, one of Australia's most respected sexologists, and she's very avert and like Juliet, anyone who has listened to her. Now you're dating a sexologist. We're talking about libido. Where does the conversation go now? You mentioned before one of the things that, it pops up in our minds, what was it like in the fucking beginning, man? Were you thinking, shit! Were you trying to pull out techniques? Were you going back and reading the book, She Comes First? Was it just like, you just have to just throw it out and just assume that she'd be conscious enough to not judge you or did you have a process to actually get into a place of self love where you didn't feel any of those fears or anything? Mason Taylor: (18:54) Because I think what we're all talking to here or we're projecting that onto you, which I think I would probably, I can get the part of myself that would be thinking about that. We start touching on what you were speaking about earlier, is those unspoken social taboos or concepts or pressures that we have on ourselves and our own cocks and our own sexual performance there. That's what I assume where these questions towards you would be arising from, and maybe just a little bit of curiosity as well. If you wouldn't mind, let's open up that can of worms. Nick Perry: (19:23) It's a cool one. I want to make it as transparent and honest as possible. Just for the sake of that. How did I feel when we first... reflecting, I wasn't overthinking it at the time. For me, in the early stages of hooking up before it was an established relationship. Actually you know what, there was definitely a part of me that was thinking bring your A game. Mason Taylor: (19:55) It's just as simple as that boys. Nick Perry: (20:00) Definitely. Actually that's cool because I've kind of, where our relationship's evolved to now is just very expansive and it's more, I suppose there's a lot of other pieces in there, but early stages, how was it? All right. Ah, I haven't divulged this before, but I will because it's true, right? I came across Juliet, I'd heard of her work and I had just recently started getting quite involved with tantra and tantric practices. Anyway, I came across her Instagram and slid into the DMs. That's where it starts, I was like, "Oh wow-" Mason Taylor: (20:41) Is that, you guys tuned in on Instagram? Nick Perry: (20:42) ... I was like, wow, this is a really interesting woman. Mason Taylor: (20:46) That's how Tahnee and I met, on Instagram as well. Nick Perry: (20:49) For sure, it's like this is the age that we live in. It's possible to connect and initiate consciously through the social media platform for sure. That's what happened. I was like, there was a part of me that was almost, like there was a cheeky part of me that was like, "come on, have a crack." It was in our stories, and there was a Brian Jonestown Massacre song that I really like, and I was like cool, there's a relation point there, connection. Then anyways, so that's where the conversation started and then it fade away and for certain reasons and disappeared. But it was all cool. Then the universe sort of brought us back together and it came back up and then the day came when we had our first date and that was lovely. Then there was the second date where it was a bit like, okay, we've got that out of the way, now our true nature can come forward even more. Nick Perry: (21:48) She's very sexually geared, I'm very sexually geared. So there was the chemistry that took care of itself. But then there was the part of me that had this desire to perform. I think that's what you're asking, or where we're directing this is like, how conscious is that expectation that a man or a woman has on themselves to, "perform". What does perform mean? Because performance is defined by a plethora of assumptions. Those assumptions are established through how sex is portrayed to us from the moment that we're born, as this sort of really private taboo thing when we're kids, then we start to figure it out for ourselves as teenagers. It's a little bit more like raw and unconscious and- Mason Taylor: (22:47) ... Who knows what kind of patterns and stories we'd got if our parents weren't overtly loving each other, or if we saw them hiding it all. Seemingly just like, they watch porn or if we just walked in on them having sex and didn't have any context for it or anything like that. Who knows what pops up. Then as you're saying, you add in the societal elements to it because we're so prone to societal ideology and programming when we're young and gooey. What's the cocktail that comes out there? Nick Perry: (23:14) ... Exactly. It's like what's the cocktail and a cocktail is more potent and- Mason Taylor: (23:20) Hi, sorry, I had to say this, is it called a flaccarita? All right. Nick Perry: (23:26) Flaccarita? Mason Taylor: (23:27) You settle down, everybody. Come on, get serious. Nick Perry: (23:29) 10 deep breaths. It's about the unconscious way of relating and a sure way to down regulate polarity and chemistry in the sexual connection. Mason Taylor: (23:51) Can you say more about down regulating that polarity? Nick Perry: (23:54) Yeah. Think of attraction in terms of a positive charge and a negative charge. So you look at a car battery or any sort of electrical current, there needs to be a very much negatively charged pole and positively charged pole. That's how that arc happens. That's how that spark ignites. Mason Taylor: (24:17) You're talking about generally like the polarity between a man and a woman especially? Nick Perry: (24:20) Yes. We think of like negative, which is the drawing part of the current, pulling in as the feminine and the out, like the doing and the taking and the ravishing polarity as the positive, the masculine. What you will notice with, that awareness is like the most cosmic sex happens when there is a strong polarity in the room. When there's a strong polarity between two people. The point that I was getting at is what down regulates that magical cosmic charge is when we get stuck in our head. The times that we get stuck in our head, the worst is when the inner critic really comes through and really comes forward. Nick Perry: (25:19) To bring that back to the context of what you and I were just talking around, like society's definition of a good lover and the social pressure of, how long did you fuck for? How many times did she come? Say these things, these performance markers- Mason Taylor: (25:39) Are we able to go straight away afterwards again. Nick Perry: (25:42) ... Yeah, all that stuff. There is a space for that, but where's the conversation in the mainstream around the sex without penetration. Sex doesn't just include friction and penetration. There is ways to connect energetically that, like an example I'll give is for somebody who's really not following. It's like, have you ever sat in front of your lover naked, cross-legged and eye gazed for five minutes? Noticed how your breath synchronizes and notice how you feel. Either your cock or your pussy starts to tingle and you start to feel that sex center really awaken and really awaken and that charge gets really strong. If you can hold the breath, keep it cycling and circulating, typically you'll notice that charge goes all the way up and you start to really feel it in your chest, in your heart center. That starts to tingle, and that starts to open. Suddenly it's like you get to a stage where you feel that you are, you have penetrated the person sitting in front of you without the physical penetration per se having occurred. Nick Perry: (27:13) To bring it back to what we're speaking to, it's like the piece that I'm reflecting on for myself was how much of these tantric tools had I learned and how capable was I of applying that? My first, Juliet and mine first hookup, and how much of the old way of being stuck in my head and being goal-orientated and being more concerned about having the reputation of a mack, than actually having a deep intimate connection. Where was I? Where did I land in that? Somewhere in the middle, I reckon. Mason Taylor: (27:53) Did you feel like, because I can kind of like from personal experience, I don't know whether this is the case, especially in the beginning when the oxytocin is cranking as well, I feel sometimes the most virtuous aspects of ourselves can very naturally emerge. I feel after that honeymoon period for me burst and all those insecurities come crashing forth. That's, just to make sure that I'm not just talking about that initial stage for anyone listening as well or even for yourself. I just wanted to kind of put that out there as well, just in case that was something worth speaking to. Nick Perry: (28:32) That's arguably far more important to speak to, because everybody at least knows conceptually, or a lot of people have experienced the honeymoon stage. That is the newness of a relationship where that polarity takes care of itself, for the most part. There is so much charge and so much of that you'd like you say, oxytocin running through the bloodstream and then we become familiar with one another and we stop looking at each other through new eyes each day. That's where the demise begins I think. We create... the mystery and the wonder of the person starts to fade and we start to form an idea of them. If we're not conscious, most of those ideas are just projections of ourselves. Mason Taylor: (29:40) Or our parents. Nick Perry: (29:41) Yeah. Parts of us that, of our parents. Then we stop seeing them through new eyes and that aliveness and that magic and that wonder of the honeymoon stage fades. We typically fall into our old way of being again. Then, we've got this mirror in our life now, that if we don't take responsibility for ourselves, we start blaming them for the things in us that are unresolved or where we're feeling miserable or blind. What happens is, it's like we start to go into a familiar way of being, and it's like the thought and the emotion that equates to our state of being. That's thought forms, unconscious and conscious and the chemistry, the hormones that those thought forms signal. Then we've got this like cellular neurochemical identity and we've arrived back there. If we weren't fully in love with ourselves before the relationship, the relationship isn't going right to fill that hole, basically. If we're not cultivating connection and relationship where there is awareness and ownership of that, and structure where we can support each other in seeing that and resolving it for ourselves, then that's when toxicity forms. Mason Taylor: (31:20) What about... because self love is, I feel like almost a term, for me became quite cliche from the Instagram world. But I always, endeavour to not let my judgmental mind, just [inaudible 00:31:37] like sit there and go and go into the depths of what we're actually talking about about self love. I definitely, I feel like that's, I'm kind of getting the gravity of that lately. The extent and just how uncomfortable... I thought I was, maybe I'm happy to say I love you to my dad, but there's quite often something a little bit uncomfortable there. But the gravity of how uncomfortable I was really feeling in love with myself and not needing to be overtly... I've gone, had experiences just like trying to.. Trying to deepen my own sexual relationship with myself. Mason Taylor: (32:16) Again it was a little bit... that's something that may emerge from my self love. That's okay. But I was inherently, I guess that inherent shame of feeling how sexually, how much of a sexual man I am, which we all are [inaudible 00:32:31]. I shouldn't generalise like that, but a lot of us are and just feeling like what do I do with that? I'm so used to sending that out or that for game or using that to please someone else. What do I do with that much love, including what I now kind of feel is that sexual Yang energy. Mason Taylor: (32:49) What do I do with that..? What does that self-love look like? I think it looks very simple externally, but just anything to talk to in that process of you coming back to loving yourself, therefore not projecting onto your partner? Nick Perry: (33:06) Yeah. I'll put a scale to it I suppose. Because like you said, it gets thrown around Instagram a lot and it's like, oh, if you've got problems, just love yourself. It's like that's not helping. Mason Taylor: (33:23) Just have a self care Sunday. Nick Perry: (33:26) Totally. Mason Taylor: (33:27) Don't forget the bath. Nick Perry: (33:29) Oh, and the bath bomb and little glass of bubbly 80, 20 [crosstalk 00:33:33]. Mason Taylor: (33:33) You really love yourself. Nick Perry: (33:43) That's what we here to do. Loving yourself is your life's work and it's important to make that your center. Like that's your center. That's where you return to. I'll give an example, so this makes a bit more sense. There's lots of people championing and promoting and holding in high esteem, philanthropist work, being in service to others. So that's, when it's done unconsciously, is one, codependent, which is unhealthy. Two, the philanthropist work becomes the source of distraction for coming home to the authentic self, back to the heart temple. I want, because you mentioned the Instagram thing, I just wanted to drop that as well because self love is a very personal journey. Nick Perry: (34:49) We can review spiritual philosophy and we can get coaching and we can accumulate different tools through our toolkit. But the integration, the application and the exploration of the path of self love doesn't stop ever. If you get there in this lifetime, then you'll essentially ascend. Self love- Mason Taylor: (35:17) [inaudible 00:35:17] Don't worry guys, you'll get there and it's good, me and Nick liked it. Nick Perry: (35:19) That was super fun. It was cool hanging out with the Buddha. He's a cack... Mason Taylor: (35:24) He's all right. Nick Perry: (35:28) Oh hell no. Look, take it from me, anyone listening. I don't love myself, but I am on the journey. That journey requires acceptance of where I am. You can't take a step towards self love, without first accepting exactly where you are exactly as you are. Mason Taylor: (35:53) That extends to exactly how your body is. I think I've heard you talk, actually I've heard you talk to Juliet on your podcast about this. That felt familiar, accepting where your body is at, before you're taking a step into the gym or into your own personal practice. Accepting what your cock and your libido and your body, doesn't necessarily mean justification. Doesn't mean sitting there and just gorging on what, I accept this is how I am and that's it. I'm just going to sit here. [crosstalk 00:36:30]. Nick Perry: (36:29) It's not apathy. Mason Taylor: (36:29) No it's not apathy. But that's probably one of the most... that for me, or just you saying that, that brings up that wall of, "Oh, that's uncomfortable." Damn and what if you go beyond the superficial and you go to that part of yourself that in all reality, doesn't change, it's been constant through all the fluctuations of your body and your libido, through the last few decades. For most people that had been listening, and so, but by logic sake, there is something which transcends all of it. Because it's still in you, you have to have it in that relationship with yourself and that coming home to, even that consideration of who am I. What is love? What is that love and how does it, how do I relate to it within myself? And feeling that non pressured, what's it going to be like when I'm 80? Maybe this is... maybe when I'm 90 maybe this is a nice intention, speaking for myself now, it's a really nice way to go into my personal practice and my movement, or even my diet exploration and definitely my sex life. Even my relationship with my daughter. Mason Taylor: (37:37) Where am I coming from, from that place where, it may be when I'm looking at those things and when I'm 80 years old and feeling into those things that I have settled into, more of a loving place, whatever that happens to be, that's nice, slow and steady to engage, right? That's massive. You're saying it wasn't just sexual techniques when you first got together? Nick Perry: (38:06) But I'm saying it was too. Mason Taylor: (38:08) I was going to say, what's the 80-20 rule come back and apply again? Just as a general. 80% self love. Nick Perry: (38:17) For sure that's the acceptance piece, right? Acceptance of our shadows, because projection of our shadows, of our savage, of our tyrants, of our... just gives them more reign, more space to be calling the shots. I think sex is a vehicle for spiritual exploration, big time. Because there's those parts, sex, with all the stigma and the shame that just comes with the territory in our society and culture. It's kind of a private place to start to work on parts of the self that we wouldn't dare expose to anyone. Whenever I'm working with someone, and they're not sure where to start, the thing that I sometimes cue them with is, "What's the one thing you don't want me to know about you? What's the thing that you would be mortified to expose?" Nick Perry: (39:31) Take that idea and take it into the bedroom and do it consciously and hold space for your partner to do the same. Then there's this exploration, and there's this healing going on, but there's also an integration, because how we show up in the bedroom is how we show up to life. Mason Taylor: (39:50) Can I also say, because you're talking about communication there. Have you got an example? Even just made up, of something that you wouldn't want known and the kind of process of communicating that, or how you would hold space or request space to be held? Nick Perry: (40:09) Yeah. Well in the context of sex? Mason Taylor: (40:16) Yeah, let's look at that. Nick Perry: (40:21) Probably the obvious one to go to here is kink. Just as an example of where might somebody be suppressing themselves. That means where are they denying their truth, that this is what turns them on. Because maybe they'll be rejected. There'll be suppression of that and that suppression festers and turns into resentment to the other person, because they're not stepping out of the comfort zone and initiating a conversation around, "Hey, this would turn me on. How does that land on you and would you be into exploring this role play with me?" Nick Perry: (41:06) It's like, I want to choke you or we want to choke each other, for example. Somebody might be like terrified to expose that. How do you initiate the conversation? By first of all, know that it's not a good idea to just dive into it. To sort of stare yourself in the eyes in the mirror and just run out and say, choke me, whatever it is. A sentence that works for me is, when is a good time to talk to you about something that's important to me? It's not bad, because it's really respectful of the person. Mason Taylor: (41:52) Sorry about my weird. But I'm like, "damn, that's good." Nick Perry: (42:04) It gives time for that person to center themselves and to assume that the polarity of the space holder. They're not going to be in a reactive place and they know that you are going to go to more of a vulnerable space. That can be very, if you're the space holder, it can be like a ... I'll give you an example because, typically the feminine has a freer flow of emotion. It's actually, an access emotion and express emotion, and that's a generalization- Mason Taylor: (42:47) But I think that's a fair one. Nick Perry: (42:48) ... it's a fair one. We see evidence of that easily. Mason Taylor: (42:53) Just physiologically, governed by Blood and Yin versus men being governed by Qi and Yang. Nick Perry: (43:00) Right on. Imagine if you lived in that state. For a man to just cross the bridge and be like, how would that be? How would that be? It's actually a gift for a man to ask a woman to hold space for him to go into that emotional place in that feminine flow. Because then she gets a break. She gets to pause from being in that place and she gets to be, sort of occupied the voidal space in herself while she's holding space for you to go into that vulnerability or whatever's coming out that emotional charge to move that. Nick Perry: (43:47) Back to, how do you initiate a conversation like that? That sentence is a great one. To bring in, if you're not sure where to go, allow a playfulness to be present in the conversation and you can do that by just going, "Oh, I'm really nervous here. I want to talk about some things that turn me on that I haven't shared with you yet. I just love to just expose that to you and see if you'd be open to exploring that with me." Mason Taylor: (44:24) Dude so good. Couple of things popping up, first of all, the times when I've been there wanting to say that, it'd be nice to have that wording and as well as just, it's very obvious, but it's something that you forget when you're in your mind. Also, sometimes I feel like I've almost felt the pressure because one of my assumptions are, you need to know what you want as a man. Sometimes I just don't know what I want. In that instance of, say, if I was going to say in the instance of choking, I wouldn't be like, I don't know if that's what I want, but perhaps I'd like to explore. I feel like that, I would have liked to have known that ability to communicate. I'd like to explore this, without feeling that pressure that, this was my projection, that I'm going to get judged as someone who wants this when in fact I wouldn't mind if I knew that I wanted it, but maybe I don't want it. Mason Taylor: (45:19) I want to explore it and see where it goes. I feel like that's a huge piece just opening up that space to be able to share. Would be able to communicate. Would you also think that that's a similar thing if there's, if you have insecurities about size, performance, not being able to get it up, sometimes coming too fast and quite often when there are not even issues, they're just thing, I know I've had my things that have hung on despite the fact that the evidence been to the contrary, that I still to maintain as absolute truths, whether it's just through chatting with boys and then making assumptions. Or porn, when you're in your early teen years or whatever it is and it just sticks. Mason Taylor: (46:02) Was it working that same way? Do you find that approach of I wanted like something too important to talk to. When can we have a chat about something important? I just like to communicate this insecurity that's there. Nick Perry: (46:14) Oh my God, yes. That is such an amazingly expansive conversation to have. Such a gift that you could offer whoever you're sharing that with, the safety that that creates for that person to then divulge something that they've been holding on to, is then formed. You've just created a container in pushing yourself to expose that shame piece for you. The healing alchemy of that, in sharing that is, I'll give an example. Cock shame, lots of women, from the women I've discussed this with, aren't aware of how afflicted men are with cock shame. What I also want to add to that is, the shame that a man holds around his cock will directly impact his self esteem in every other aspect of his life. Nick Perry: (47:28) Men are holding back and they're not realizing that if you followed it in like what's the blockage? What's the limitation for so many males? Part of that is this perception they have of their cock and that their cock isn't good enough. That their cock isn't unworthy and that the cock is an appendage of the man. It's actually just, it carries into the rest of the being. The most amazing thing, and any brothers listening to this, just open your mind to exploring. If you maybe have some cock shame, is to go there and to speak to it. There doesn't need to be any fixing, or resolution that comes from it, but bring it out of the shadow and just name it. That is such an empowering fucking action to take. Mason Taylor: (48:34) You are saying, without that expectation or agenda on it being like resolved then as well. I think that's where my mind has put too much pressure on the sharing and wanting a resolution in that moment. That's where I've lost that motivation on continuously to just keep on bringing you into the light, sharing in appropriate ways. For bro's who are out in a relationship at the moment, you've got ways that they can go through that process for themselves? Nick Perry: (49:02) Yes. Ok there's a couple of things that just sprang to mind. Become responsible for who you surround yourself with. If you were around men who can't go there, then put yourself around different men who are willing to have that conversation, who are mature enough to hold space for that, who might be willing to lean into that for themselves and expose that, and have a very beautiful intimate healing relationship, friendship conversation around that. How can you do that? I'm part of a non for profit organization called ManKind Project, MKP. Without going too deeply into that right now, that is a, they hold men circles. It's global. It's all around, it's all around Australia. It's all around the world. It's online, they're called igroups, the men circles that they hold, there's online igroups. Nick Perry: (50:15) Literally, you can seek out the right environment and the right people and put yourself there, and push yourself to have the conversation. That is how you're going to step more into self love. Like we were saying, that's the trajectory of self love. That's the inconvenience of self love. It's not convenient to love yourself, because you got to drop, start dropping these defense mechanisms that have served you. They got you to where you're at, you're still alive. Mason Taylor: (50:46) It's not convenient based on the way that society is set up in the way we've kind of got that story about selves. How the propaganda machine is driven, the way that life needs to look for us. It's kind of completely go against grain of that and going with the grain of our spirit and our emotions and our integration, which is ultimately been like, life being more fun, and rad, and sexually potent more laughter and good parties and being able to fill your cup in terms of, we know your practice actually widening your cups so you can get out there and contribute to other people having a rad time in life. Mason Taylor: (51:22) I mean it would probably end with that, with men's circles, I think what some people, I see a lot of men, a lot of men around this area as well as, it's just like, I need to completely eject myself from all social circles that don't foster these kinds of conversation. Which I know you're not talking to but...Sometimes I feel like we take [crosstalk 00:51:39]. Nick Perry: (51:43) That's shadowy as fuck again. It's like going into, so thank you so much for bringing that up. Because what I'm saying is, if those relationships and environments aren't in your life, then choose to have them in your life and put yourself in them. That doesn't mean to scave and abandon and judge and condemn other men and brothers who might'n be making these inquiries just yet. We all have different degrees of readiness. There isn't a right or a wrong by any fucking means. There's no step in anybody's journey that isn't sacred or divine. It's like, the whole process is divine. Recognise the divinity in every person no matter where they're at. Mason Taylor: (52:40) That's like, that's ideology one-o-one. Going like, I'm ready to go down this route. Then, by all intents and purposes, you can look at a guy who's, maybe not doing that, but he's decided to take it upon himself to I don't know learn like carpentry or, go down the routes of like, mechanics or something like that and feeling that's something that he's exploring in himself right now. Then judge the shit out of you, because you're not actually taking the responsibility for your own car or house or whatever. It's all ideology. That's good. That's good stuff, it's spicy. Nick Perry: (53:17) Nice. There's just one little thing as well I want to say. Because recently, I had a trippy experience with this. Talking about the cock thing, the cock conversation. "I'm going to say it out loud and be seen and witnessed in speaking to the cock shame is a very healing way to transmute that shame. The other thing is, start to befriend your cock again. What I realised was my cock was a commodity to me. It was a commodity to me, and it was a burden. It was either a commodity or a burden. It's like I lost the shame. It messed up. Mason Taylor: (54:09) [inaudible 00:54:09]. Nick Perry: (54:10) Having a really positive relationship with your cock, how I... I had this experience a few months ago and I'd just done a sweat lodge and I was tripping and I came out and I was staring at the flyer and I was real head spinney and I sort of slumped over. I was slowly sorta like rolling up my spine, back to a standing position, I kind of went eye to eye, with my own cock. It was the first time I'd seen it, in a very long time where I was like, saw it beyond the flesh and artery that it is. I was like, Whoa and I really connected to what it does. It's like this part of me brings a lot of pleasure into my life. This part of me has the potential to create a human being to be a part of that birthing alchemy. Nick Perry: (55:23) This is my creative center. This is the sacral chakra essentially. All my ideas that have come into fruition were birthed from this energy center and then that rose up through me and came out and became an ecosystem, in reality. I kind of appreciated my cock consciously for the first time in a really long time instead of being just judgmental about it and non appreciative. One thing that is nice to start practicing is, it's a cock gazing. It's like, look at your cock, look at it, look at it in the mirror, stand up and look at it as yours, as a part of you. It's with you on this journey of life. Get it on site again. It's your friend, it's your mate. That's a personal practice that you can do on your own, that can have... just really develop awareness and actually it can develop awareness. Nick Perry: (56:47) It can expose how close your heart is to your own cock, or it can help you, which then becomes your priority, becomes your work or it can reconnect you to that, "Oh yeah. I fucking love, I love this fucking thing." Mason Taylor: (57:04) The cock can be the key to your heart. Nick Perry: (57:07) Totally. Mason Taylor: (57:10) It's true. Mason Taylor: (57:11) You can see exactly what that looks like. Nick Perry: (57:20) The circumference of my cock. I guess, we're laughing, but there's a degree of seriousness in there. Mason Taylor: (57:39) I think the laughing is a nice aspect to accompany the seriousness, because quite often another kind of thing that's unspoken, which is I just constantly observed myself as I have these peak experiences. Like you had a peak experience there coming out of ceremony and having that bang, whoa. Then not having, for a lot of men, like I said, I felt like this in the beginning, not realizing that it doesn't need to be at that peak experience state all the time. That it's just then it's like, ah, appreciation and that subtleness of that it's again the chop wood, carry water. You had your big pop moment and then you don't let it go, and just let that appreciation just seep in in very practical ways. Mason Taylor: (58:22) Even though it's possibly one of the most sacred relationships and there is an energetic reality to your Yang energy and your Jing energy and your energy of your cock and your libido emerging up and lighting up your heart so that your spirit can emerge. It's also very funny. Cocks and sex are very funny as well. You need to live your life. It's not all just some big hand on heart ceremony where you can go, then you go out of one societal taboo into a spiritual scene, sacred taboo, where you're not allowed to ever take the piss out of these things and actually live your life in accordance to who you are. There's someone in a way that's sustainable. Nick Perry: (59:05) Totally. I think it was Alan Watts that one of his quotes is, it's all just a cosmic joke. Mason Taylor: (59:13) Yeah fucking oath it is. Nick Perry: (59:15) It's an explosion of novelty and we're just picking up the parts of ourselves in this fucking, whatever this simulation that we're in, is [inaudible 00:59:30]. If you can't laugh, then you're totally missing the point. If you can't laugh at all of it, even the tragedy and the terror, then you're missing the point. Hell yes, such a great one to speak to. Mason Taylor: (59:44) Absolutely. With the tragedy, I mean, tragedy is tragedy. There's romance to tragedy at the same time. Likewise, there's tragedy of romance. But we don't have to trip out too much on that. But I think, because [crosstalk 01:00:01]. To bring us home, I just wanted to tune into something that I've heard you speak about, which is, if you want, I think quite often a gap I felt a lot of men would feel is we're able to just turn it on. We've got that Yang, we can just turn on and go, "Oh shit, didn't even realise I was horny." Perhaps it's a biologically driven horniness, perhaps not. Mason Taylor: (01:00:27) But the nature of, when you're in partnership and you are turned on by your life, then it makes it possible for you to be in that sexual dance, either with yourself or with your partner in at all times, every morning. Perhaps during the day, perhaps with texts, perhaps while making dinner, there is a continuation of your essence coming forth. It's not just you trying to be in foreplay at all times or trying to be sexy. It's an emergence an innate emergence because you are in fact turned on by your life. Mason Taylor: (01:01:08) I thought that when you were talking about that, I was just like, ah, yeah man. The concept of being turned on by the way you're managing your money, your job, your work, your contribution, your movement, whatever it is, is such a huge concept to all of this. I thought it'd be a nice way to take out talking about libido. Nick Perry: (01:01:33) Hell yeah, man. It's the feedback. It's kind of, we're coming around full circle. We're talking, we started with saying, libido is a very quick way to check in on where you're at spiritually, emotionally, physically, mentally. When libido is down, that's a signal and you need to find what's out of step, what's out of balance. You'll get feedback when you are in making affirmative choices for your own authentic, for your uniqueness, for your own self. Because you will, you have sexual charge running through your body all the time. You'll feel turned on by the mundane. What would be seemingly mundane. It's like," Hmm, I'm going to ride my bike down and check the surf". It's just this enthusiasm and juiciness in that. You're exuding a high frequency basically. Nick Perry: (01:02:40) To make sense of that, and I don't think that we've touched on this overtly, but your sexual energy is your creative energy. If you are creating your day, if you have a blueprint for your life that you chose and that is construct of your own core values, that's exciting. That's sexy, because you're building your own kingdom and it's an extension of you. It's an expression of you. It's like, my creative energy is running and where I invest, it returns back to me, because it is an expression of what I value. It's this cyclic charge, like the microcosmic, orbital breathing. It's coming up the spine and down and back up. But it's like a closed chain cycle. Nick Perry: (01:03:40) That's why a high libido doesn't just indicate that you're horny and you want to fuck. It also can be a indicator that, I'm being true to me and the things that I'm investing my life force in and every minute of my life I don't get back. I'm exchanging my life for something that I value in return rather than working a job that you fucking hate. You're exchanging your life, like you're getting paid essentially because you're giving them your life. You gave up that company or whatever, eight hours of your life that you won't get back. Sure, you're getting paid for the labor or the skill. But to me, what's a more helpful context to review that from? Are you aware that you are investing your life into that person's project? Ok cool we've got that. Now, checking a little teapot. Nick Perry: (01:04:47) Do your values align with that person? Does that person's mission inspire you? No. Okay. Do you feel miserable rocking up to that place every day? Yes. Does the frequency not align with your frequency? Yes or no fucking shit. Is your sex drive dropping? Yeah for sure. Mason Taylor: (01:05:08) Even in that situation like again, taking those little steps, just trying to bring as much of your values and not being smothered by the external values of the workplace even, right? Giving it a good honest try and seeing if you can drive, bring your goodness and your love and lustre for life. Especially if it's a situation you don't feel it's actually that easy to get out of. Give it a real good, honest try. But I think you're right. If it's just all hell no's everywhere you look, it might be a stealthy kind of antiandrogen, but it's going to be an antiandrogen 100%. Then when then what are we looking at? We're looking at lowered bone density, lower muscle mass, lower mental acuity, and then just lower ability to actually connect with ourselves and lovers to be able to actually sit down and look your partner in the eye and not get skiddish, should your patterns to come up, to be able to even just do that for like a few seconds. Mason Taylor: (01:06:08) That all starts washing out in that excessive sacrifice essentially, just going with the flows of marketing and the corporate world, or just that traditional business model, which is just pure flat out and more, more, more. Nick Perry: (01:06:28) Consume, consume, consume. But for what? It's like, are you making love with the world? If you're not, know that, see that, and then give yourself three to five years to change that. Because, pretty much my point is, you're not getting, energy is not returning back to you day to day. For yourself, you're building an unbelievable kingdom and your company is a creation of your values and your passions. You rock up and you're surrounded by inspiration and you fucking embody life.That's probably the best description I could really choose for you right now. Is you are, you have a surplus of life force. You glow and that's- Mason Taylor: (01:07:43) Shucks... Nick Perry: (01:07:45) That's unbelievably inspiring. That's a self fulfilling prophecy of yours for whatever reason. But it is a product of the choices you made. The choices you made, lucky for you, whether it was conscious or unconscious, had this determination to incorporate your core values and your passion and stuff like that. You wear it. I see it. You have two podcasts, your ecosystem is enormous. Then you've got these other beings involved in that. These beings are beautiful people who I got to meet today, and they've got a lot of life exuding out of them and they've got a beautiful high frequency. They're on board with that. That's an indicator that, your sexual energy is running and flowing and you are giving birth, you've given birth to a human being. Nick Perry: (01:08:43) You haven't given birth yourself, but by, you know, your seed. You've given birth to this company. I'm sure there's other projects, you've got that little gym downstairs and it's like you've given birth to all these ideas. Those ideas have been projected out of the space in between your ears and into the world. Your sexual energy has given birth to that. That's how libido serves us beyond the bedroom. It doesn't need to be confined to sex, penetration, friction. Mason Taylor: (01:09:20) It's interesting, you just talking about the [inaudible 01:09:22], In that space because that, that connection is highly fit, has been known in theoretical and then that sexual energy is creative energy. Even just then acknowledging, there are creations here at SuperFeast on educating on the podcast and these things were, I can feel that creative essence and I can feel that satisfaction and joy there. Then tracking it back, to it's source, that's all just now, I've been a really nice practice for me to get in touch with the source of that creative essence and that sexual energy within myself. Also I appreciate the giving yourself three to five years saying that to the guys out there. This has been, there is a lot happening now, in SuperFeast which is happening exceptionally fast, because of how strong the foundations are and how many people are with the gym downstairs that comes together very quickly. Because I'm especially collaborating with Wazza who you've met. Mason Taylor: (01:10:23) We both had a creative outlet there. But then also going back and just seeing how all the hours of schlepping it, and accepting that meek, and that mundane and then over the years, possibly having appreciated as much as possibly can. You mentioned riding down, the checking the surf and just inquiring in those moments of how can those moments be infused with my essence and myself because it is always going for me. It's always a reflection that, I do have an external agenda right now that isn't representing my true inner intent. But that's just always biofeedback and experience and that, I think guys carry a lot of pressure. I'm going to do this. In one year's time, it hasn't all completely transformed on its head in but this is a practical thing, but it's worth speaking to that part of us that forgets this or maybe some boys listen to this and men listen to this. Kind of early on and I'm going to have that intense pressure on their self. Just nice and slow and steady consistency and it's your shit anyway. It's your journey anyway. It's your creativity anyway. You can't go wrong. Nick Perry: (01:11:40) You can't go wrong. Mason Taylor: (01:11:42) It's going to be shit at times when you take responsibility and you stop trying to flee certain things that you just know that you should be sorting out in your life. It might be boring at times and mundane, but if you've really set your vision in that direction that it's purely you, you will infuse those areas with life. You'll fuck them. What does fucking- Nick Perry: (01:12:08) Yeah baby that's right. Mason Taylor: (01:12:08) ... when you look at the world, you just said that. What comes to mind is what happens when you make love and you fuck in the way that it's purely you. You are connecting deeply. You're having an intensely pleasurable experience. You're learning about yourself, if it's self-pleasure, that's sex specially with your lover, they're learning about themselves and opening up, how are you fucking the world in that kind of context? I think, I don't know whether I heard you say that or maybe Juliet talking about fucking the world as well, but that's kind of really materializing that idea or that concept and the reality of that's what's going on. If our creative and therefore manifesting expression is emerging from our sexual energy, then get really conscious about how you're fucking yourself, your lovers and the world. Nick Perry: (01:13:00) Thank you man. That's such a beautiful elaboration and it just, it reminds me that there's breakup sex, there's wild sex. There's slow and intimate sex. There's kinky sex. In the bedroom, there's all these different ways to connect and relate. To keep that in mind that there isn't necessarily a right way to make love , in, like you said, in the creative process, in bringing your dream, materializing your dreams into reality, there are those really grindy days and that's just another way to fuck if you stay conscious. Then there's those really expensive elating days where it all comes together and that's another way to fuck. But yeah, if you stay connected to yourself, and stay accountable to your values and the blueprint that you've taken time to construct around, like what do I want my reality to look like and how is that going to make the world a better place and better the experience in this world for my loved ones? Yeah, go forth and fuck. Mason Taylor: (01:14:18) Yeah, I love it. On that, where can any men or women wanting to reach out, you're a holistic health coach. You work with people on many areas whether diet, functional movement, hydration, and then they're all leading back in entwining into this kind work and coming back to our genuine selves. Bringing together our emotional child, our intellect, body, spirit, anyone wanting to work with you. In that, I mean work with you one on one, but you also have a few offerings on your website, I believe. Where can they find you? Nick Perry: (01:14:57) One on one coaching or sometimes courses or workshops and stuff come through. Best place is either the gram, so that's Rhythm Health, R-H-Y-T-H-M Health or my website, which is rhythmhealth.com. That would be the best way. Hit me up with an email. DM me on Instagram, as you heard earlier sometimes you

Episode 70 Brovember with Lawrence Harmon

The Dead Format Podcast

Play Episode Listen Later Nov 6, 2019 120:00

This is our wildest cast yet. www.patreon.com/TheDeadFormat Mana Traders Referral Link: www.manatraders.com/?medium=tsmiley Discount Code: tsmiley Twitter Contact: Official Podcast Contact @DeadFormatCast Ian @Ian18125 Tom @TsmileyMtg deadformatcast@gmail.com

harmon brovember

Wylde Stallions Gone Til Brovember

Wylde

Play Episode Listen Later Nov 5, 2019 44:07

Time travel, the code, hammocks, blowjobs, sexy Halloween costumes for gals AND guys, the Email, Edward Norton, Venice California, no Nut November nonsense and much, much more. THIS is the most important thing your earholes will ever be blessed with. Evolve, laugh and nut three times a day minimum. You sacks of potatoes. --- This episode is sponsored by · Anchor: The easiest way to make a podcast. https://anchor.fm/app Support this podcast: https://anchor.fm/wylde/support

time halloween evolve edward norton stallions wylde venice california brovember

#44 Prostate Care, Hormonal Balance and Men's Mental Health with Dr Ralph Esposito

Play Episode Listen Later Nov 4, 2019 49:14

We've got Dr Ralph Esposito (or Dr Espo as we like to call him) back on the pod today. We're stoked to have this legend on the show with us again, especially as we're celebrating the bro's this month for Brovember. Today Dr Espo shares his insights on men's health, particularly in areas of prostate care, men's hormones and men's mental health. With his extensive experience as a naturopath, licensed acupuncturist and functional medicine practitioner, Dr Espo is an absolute weapon of knowledge in his field of expertise, so strap yourself in and enjoy the ride. Mason and Dr Espo bro down on: The link between cortisol and prostate health. High insulin as a driving factor of dis-ease. The risk factors involved in prostrate cancer. Keeping up to date with your GP for regular prostrate exams. The male hormonal cascades. Testosterone and oestrogen. How the liver supports hormonal balance. The diet and lifestyle interventions a man can embody to prevent testosterone aromatisation. The importance of men's mental health and the shame that often surrounds it. Male "man-o-pause, aka andropause. Who is Dr Espo? Dr. Esposito is a naturopathic physician, licensed acupuncturist and functional medicine practitioner specializing in Hormones, Integrative Urology and Men's Health. His precise and personalized style embodies a progressive approach to medicine. He has been published and is a peer reviewer in well-respected medical journals. Furthermore, Dr. Esposito has authored several medical textbook chapters and has designed education modules for health professionals specifically on urological conditions, fertility, male and female hormone dysfunction, Low Testosterone, exercise, fitness, men’s health and sexual dysfunction. He has trained at NYU Integrative and Functional Urology Center. Dr. Esposito also holds a position as adjunct professor at New York University where he lectures on integrative medicine. Resources: Dr Espo Instagram SuperFeast Deer Antler SuperFeast Ashwagandha Q: How Can I Support The SuperFeast Podcast? A: Tell all your friends and family and share online! We’d also love it if you could subscribe and review this podcast on iTunes. Or check us out on Stitcher :)! Plus we're on Spotify! Check Out The Transcript Here: Mason: Dr. Espo, welcome back, man. Dr. Espo: Wow, thanks so... I can't believe I'm back for almost, what is it, a third time? Mason: Yeah.... I've never said this before, but you're a friend of the show. Dr. Espo: Yes. [crosstalk 00:00:19]... I'm the best friend. Mason: Was it three years ago when we first had our chat over on my old podcast? Yeah, a second time having you here, and we're recording a little bit before, but now we're in Brovember. We're celebrating men's health, I was going to talk to you anyway, but one of the reasons I really wanted to have you on again is because in the last year for Movember... I don't know if everyone knows Movember. I think it's pretty synonymous with November now, you shave off, you grow Mo, and it's all about raising awareness and money for prostate health essentially. Is that right? Dr. Espo: Yeah, for cancers that impact men. So testicular cancer, prostate cancer, and also male mental health. Mason: Yeah. Nice. But I'm really awesome, and I learned a lot from you, so if you're not on the Instagram we're doing a lot of sharing of Ralph's posts especially through that last year, November and all the way up until currently. So get over there and look at those because there's heaps of juicy stuff, but we're going to be going into it today as well. And with Brovember, of course, we are going to be focusing, yes, and including those particular cancers that are affecting men, especially going to be looking at prostate health, but we're blowing it out into men's health. Mason: We're going to be of course talking about mental health as well, but blowing out into like all areas of health that are affecting men. So bro, let's start diving in. Now, of course, prostate health is something that is... I feel we just had a little conversation before about how you're still working in that clinic that you mentioned in the last podcast, which is awesome. And we were saying how, it's a little bit easier for you to get the patient's history, but often it's so incomplete and just how it's one of those things where when you're a bit younger you just don't value your medical history and how it's like, you don't value getting your taxes and finances in order until stuff starts hitting the fan. You go, "Oh shit, yeah, I really got to get on top of this." Mason: I mean, it's like that with prostate health is one of those things. All we need to do is just get a little bit of insight now, especially if you're a bit older, but when you're young, ideally start really understanding your physiology in your anatomy. So let's dive into prostate health. Do you want to just go start with just jamming with us about what it is and its function? Dr. Espo: Yeah. So the prostate is a gland that sits beneath the bladder. And if you're a man over the age of 40 or 45, sometimes 50, your doctor has probably stuck his finger in your rectum and did a prostate exam. And it's probably one of the most exciting things that men love to look forward to once they reach 50. But no, and in all honesty, it's an important test to get done because the prostate has... its primary function is for sexual function. It creates a fluid that allows your semen and your sperm to survive to inseminate or to impregnate an egg. Dr. Espo: Now, it's there your whole life, but as you get older, your prostate can start to enlarge and it also is susceptible to cancer. Now, the great thing about prostate cancer is that most men will die with prostate cancer than from prostate cancer. And the great thing is that it's also typically a very slow growing type of cancer. So what I usually tell men is by the time you're 65, 70 years old, you probably will have some type of prostate cancer cells in your body. That doesn't necessarily mean that they're going to kill you and it doesn't necessarily mean that they're going to be a malignant. Dr. Espo: But I want to make sure that I'm protecting my body and preventing any type of cancer cells, especially prostate cancer, but any cancer from growing, because it seems to be one of the most prominent cancers in men. So it's a really important cancer to get on top of. And also it's easily to, well I don't want to call it easy, but it's one of the cancers that can be treated rather well compared to other types of cancers like pancreatic. Mason: And especially, just with lifestyle you mean? Dr. Espo: Yeah. So for prostate cancer, prostate cancer is largely a cancer of lifestyle. So there are genetic causes that contribute to it. So there is the BRCA gene, which is often associated with breast cancer, but in fact there are individuals who do have a BRCA mutation that can increase their risk of prostate cancer. So whenever I asked a man, speaking of family history, I say, "Hey, what's your family history of prostate cancer?" He might say, "Oh, I had an uncle had prostate cancer. And then I say, "Well what was your family history of breast cancer or ovarian cancer?" Dr. Espo: And they tell me, "Oh yeah, my mom had breast cancer or my sister had breast cancer." I'm like, okay, that tells me that it's a possibility, although it's not entirely likely not for certain that if your sister had breast cancer, she had a BRCA gene, but if she had a BRCA gene, it's possible that you too, you do as well. And that makes me super vigilant in making sure that your prostate cancer or your potential for prostate cancer is very low to minimum. Dr. Espo: So we know there's a lot of lifestyle things that increase the risk of prostate cancer. And we know that a plant-based diet, which is really hard to define, but we know that those who eat more leafy greens, berries, fruits like pomegranates, tomatoes, those are the foods that you want to have to protect your prostate and staying away from charred meats. And then you come into the conversation of sleep and then exercise, right? So all of these things together will reduce your risk. And there's a bunch of men who may have the BRCA but don't necessarily get prostate cancer. And I think that's where the lifestyle come into play. Mason: All right. So then with prostate cancer, you mentioned family. I just wanted to just throw in that, I remember there was a post too about brothers and if your brother has prostate cancer, the percentage going up. And so I obviously in the same family of that, but that was a pretty, that percentage was quite high. It's just worth knowing, I guess. Then let's stay in the preventative world, I guess like everything we've talked about, especially on that last podcast, we've talked a lot about herbs for men's health. Obviously you're not going to be able to focus on any area, whether it's testosterone optimization, sleep, the inclusion of certain herb's and adaptogens like Ashwagandha and Mucuna without largely affecting the prostate gland, I imagine. Is that just, obviously because you've created an environment where harmony can somewhat ensue or is prostate effected by high levels of stress as well or is there no real link there? Dr. Espo: No. No, no. okay. So a really good follow up question to this is what do you mean by stress? Mason: Yeah, well that's really great. Are we talking like what in terms of clinical markers, are we talking about hormonal markers with stress, are we talking about like a stealth stress that's in the mind? And that's really, really good distinction there. And I'd love for you to just take it in any way you feel is relevant. Dr. Espo: Yeah. So when it comes to stressors and prostate cancer, it's almost an arguable to say stress in an umbrella form is not going to be harmful. So in other words, stress is harmful for prostate cancer. And the reason why and most of the time what we see is that individuals who are highly stressed, which is often measured by cortisol because it's one of the major stress hormones. The other ones are the catecholomines like epinephrine, norepinephrine, adrenaline, noradrenaline those are basically our stress hormones. And then you have stress markers like interleukin-1, interleukin-1V, interleukin-6, et cetera, TNF, right? So all of these are markers, they fall within the umbrella of stress. And then they cause inflammation, right? Dr. Espo: So chronically elevated levels of cortisol can impair your immune system. And there's one immune cell that we know that is super helpful to protect against prostate cancer and those are NK cells, also known natural killer cells. And you're going to love this because mushrooms significantly improve the production of NK cells. It's one of the ingredients in there called AHC C, which is found mostly in mushrooms that increases the synthesis of and NK cells, which are targeted towards cancers and one of the cancers that has most effect on his prostate cancer. So- Mason: So good. Dr. Espo: Yeah, so if you wanted to develop an environment for prostate cancer to grow, to thrive, suppress the immune system, throw a bunch of inflammatory markers at it, and then feed it a diet full of sugar and you created a soup that prostate cancer will certainly love. I'm not sure exactly, it's actually hyperinsulinemia. Very, very high insulin levels for long periods of time, which will cause increase in IGF levels will cause prostate cancer cells to grow. It's not just the red meat, charred red meat, it's not just the stress. What I think is the catalyst is the insulin triggered by increased blood sugar, but also insulin can be triggered by increased cortisol levels. Mason: Can we just jump down the IGF a little bit? I mean, that insulin growth factor is something I've looked into. Especially when I got ask questions because it's obviously in existence in deer antler. A little bit different for us because we're using a deer antler velvet that isn't isolated yet here are a lot of there are a lot of isolated supplements out there with IGF in there. And I saw that it was pretty non conclusive with deer antler at least. But I was like, I couldn't say in terms of whether it was going to be an aggravator in those instances where... Even if there's a susceptibility and women asking as well in terms of having that same gene that makes them prone to breast cancer. I don't know if you've got any take on it? Dr. Espo: So is the question, does IGF, or exogenous IGF cause or is a major contributing factor to cancers? Mason: Even if it's just like a suspect? Yeah. Something like... Whether you know that or whether it's something you suspect? Dr. Espo: Yeah. So I think it's not just the IGF. Right... So a measure of IGF is growth hormone.... sorry. IGF is a measure of growth hormone. So you can measure growth hormone in the blood. It's highly inaccurate because it's pulsatile, which basically means growth hormone releasing hormone that tells your pituitary to release growth hormone. And that happens at various times throughout the day. So if you were to just take a random check of your growth hormone, that doesn't give you much information because it's just what was your growth hormone on November 2nd at 8:24 AM in the morning, right? Mason: Yeah. Dr. Espo: But IGF has a longer half-life and last longer. So by looking at IGF, you can look at growth hormone. And by understanding what growth hormone does to certain cancer cells, obviously causes them to grow, but there's a curve on it and it's we're at very low growth hormone levels the risk of Alzheimer's and cancers increase or high as you increase growth hormone, those things decrease. So the risk of cancers and Alzheimer's and chronic diseases decrease as you start giving more growth hormone. It's a super physiologic level. So very high levels of growth hormone, the risk goes up again. Mason: Got ya. Dr. Espo: It's like a U-shaped curve. Mason: Okay. Dr. Espo: And so when you tell me, does IGF cause cancer, number one, I'll never tell you that something causes cancer, but can it promote? Well, it depends on the environment that you are in. So there's a lot of bodybuilders who just take straight up insulin. I would say that is a higher risk for certain types of cancers. Actually, we know insulin can increase the risk of cancers. So I would say when you have to weigh the risk per verses benefit and really understand what is the relative risk, let's just put it into perspective of having a Snickers bar, it's probably more likely to increase your risk of developing a cancer promoting environment than deer antler or taking an exogenous type of supplement that might increase your own endogenous production. Mason: Yeah, man. Then that's the getting a like a... I always like to play around in the buffer of having a herb or is this a much an extent even like supplementation and minerals and all that kind of stuff within the whole form, majority of the time it gives you that buffer. But I like that man. It's cool. Thanks for giving me that perspective on that. And so with prostate health and when we get into testing, can you just jam a little bit about the PSA testing and just any myths around that and how we can actually be grounded and levelled and responsible in terms of how we're testing and then managing enlarged prostates or prostate cancer. If we get to that point at which we hopefully obviously don't because we're on the prevention bandwagon. Dr. Espo: Right. I was just having this conversation with a colleague the other day and a patient, and they're like, "Well, my doctor said I shouldn't test PSA." So okay, so you're 54 years old, your insulin levels at 18, which is high, your fasting insulin is that 18 typically it could be less than like 10 or nine. That's micro units per milliliter, and your doctor's telling me that there's really no point of testing PSA. So what else are you going to do to screen this guy to make sure he doesn't get prostate cancer? I'll just do a rectal exam. Those are highly insensitive. So basically the risk or the chance of you catching a prostate cancer on a rectal exam, if you are not a urologist is close to like 40% or 50% of the time. Mason: What have you got?... Obviously you've just got specialized training with urology. What are you particularly looking for? Just the feel? Dr. Espo: Just what you're feeling for. Mason: Yes. Dr. Espo: Right. So what's your feeling for is a nodule, you're feeling... So what I usually tell people is like if you make a fist, right, a normal- Mason: Don't tell me that's how you test? (laughing) Then you're doing it wrong. Dr. Espo: What kind of medical school did you go to? Okay. So if you are a urologist or a doctor and what's your feeling for is if you make a fist with your left hand, the palm, the left part of your hand, like at the bottom of your thumb, your femur eminence is a normal prostate. If you go on the opposite side of the culture to your pinky side, that's a boggy prostate. That's usually an enlarged prostate. And then you feel your knuckle. That's prostate cancer. So really hard is prostate cancer, normal buoyancy is.. Normal prostate and then really like just soft and mushy is more, more like an enlarged prostate. So that's when you do a DRE, what we call a DRE was a digital rectal exam. Dr. Espo: You're trying to see, number one, what is the size? Is it large or small? Do I feel any nodules? Is the median sulcus there? Which is like a little indentation, like a Walnut is that there? If that's not there, then that means the process is getting bigger. And then you obviously check for tenderness. So if I press it, does it hurt? Prostate cancer typically doesn't hurt, but prostatitis will. So if you're telling me that your PSA is elevated at seven, but you're telling me a burns on your pee and when you ejaculate, you're having pain, probably a prostatitis probably an infection or a chronic non bacterial prostatitis I'm less inclined to think that that's a prostate cancer also depends on your age. Mason: How would you, [crosstalk 00:17:56]. Dr. Espo: So let's say you had. Mason: Sorry. Dr. Espo: Had- Mason: No, no, no, I was just going to say with prostatitis, in terms of treatment do you go about that with just a different, you're just like case by case or do you have a protocol? Dr. Espo: It depends on the type of bacteria that's found. So you can do a.. Basically you could do a urine test or you can do a prosthetic massage test. So you'll get a urine test, test that then you palpate the prostate. So you basically press the prostate, try to get a sample from that and then see if there's any type of bacteria that are growing there. Mason: Right. Got you. Dr. Espo: So then that'll determine what the therapy will be. Now, look, you don't always have to go with antibiotics, but it depends on the duration and how bad it is. Now sometimes you'll find the bacteria with a person who is asymptomatic. And I would say, I don't know if we really need to go ahead and aggressively go after this, but it depends on the individual. My concern with a non-treated prostatitis or a prostate infection, is it becoming a chronic non-bacterial infection. And I see that all the time because you have a lot of urologists are, a lot of men won't go to the doctor. So if you're listening to this podcast, please, if you take nothing else from this, just go to the doctor and get a checkup. Just have your doctor examine you. Dr. Espo: So men won't go to the doctor, at the end when it's all resolved or they're feel like they're okay two months later, they're in chronic pain and there's no bacteria there because that bacteria has caused so much inflammation to the nerves and the prostate tissue that they can't recover. So as a naturopathic physician, my last option is an antibiotic, but it doesn't necessarily mean I'm completely opposed to it. Right. Because we then have to consider, like for example, if you're a 95-year-old woman who has a BMI of 17, and you have the pneumonia, I'm not giving you, oregano oil, go on antibiotics because your risk of dying is very high. So I take that approach with it. But certainly there are herbs that can be used that are natural antibacterial, antifungal, antiparasitic herbs that can help fight a prostate infection. The issue is that the prostate is such a hard area to reach. Mason: Yeah. Have you looked at other ways besides orally like have you in terms of suppositories or enemas or anything like that? Dr. Espo: Yeah. So those antibacterial herbs will not cross the colon or the rectum to get to the prostate. But there is research showing that the probiotics that colonize your colon will also colonize your prostate. Mason: Like bifidus? Dr. Espo: It depends on, I'm not sure which strain it was, but I know that when they gave individuals, whatever strains that they were giving them as a probiotic, it changed the flora in their prostate as well. Mason: Okay. Wow. Dr. Espo: So they do communicate and those nerves also communicate. So the nerves that impact your prostate also are impacting your rectum and your colon. So the first thing I ask men, well, who have our prostate chronic prostatitis. I asked them, "Well, are you eating dairy and are you constipated?" I look at those two things. I say, well, you're probably, if you're constipated, you're probably causing irritation to those nerves, which will also cause irritation to the prostate. Mason: Yeah. Right. Okay. So you get that colon connection there. Big time with the prostate. Right. Okay. Well let's- Dr. Espo: Speaking of the PSA, yes you can... I would check PSA. I checked PSA density, so I check how high is the PSA compared to the prostate? So just put it in comparison. A small prostate should make very little PSA and the large prostate will probably make a little bit more. But if you have a small prostate and your PSA is high, I'm more concerned than if you have a big prostate and your PSA is high. Mason: Okay. What ages are you recommending going and getting checked? Dr. Espo: It depends. So you know, you were discussing if you have a brother your risk of prostate cancer goes up. Typically, if a man has a first degree family member with prostate cancer, I'm screening them at about 40. Mason: Okay. Dr. Espo: Right. And that is only to get a baseline. Mason: Yeah. Right. Dr. Espo: Especially 40 if they're black or African American. All right. Mason: Yeah. African Americans are really prone to prostate cancer, right? Dr. Espo: They are more prone to prostate cancer than- Mason: African, like those African genetics. Dr. Espo: African or African American or black will typically have a higher risk of prostate cancer. They actually have a higher risk of aggressive prostate cancer. And that's the prostate cancer that you want to kill. Mason: Is that because I know that folks.. African folks are a little bit more susceptible to kidney deficiencies as well. Dr. Espo: Kidney again, so... Mason: Kidney deficiency in general. I mean, and I don't know if that's obviously in proximity might be a little bit of a connection. I don't know? Dr. Espo: Yeah. I haven't thought about it in that aspect. It's something that I think you should look into. I haven't thought about it that way. Mason: I mean, I haven't really either. That's kind of like just a little bit of a hobby looking at the elemental deficiency, constitutional stuff that comes out of Taoism and classical Chinese medicine. But I'll look into it. I'll put it on the list Ralph. Mason: And then when once you get past those inflammatory conditions and you start edging towards the realms of their being prostate cancer, how do you then gauge, when is it time to intervene using whether it's palpitation, PSA levels, age, so on and so forth. When is the surgeries rife? Right? People are getting rushed into prostate surgery. And there's like a lack of appropriateness. It's like none of you ever like practice much martial arts, but there's one thing you'd learn is an appropriate reaction to the stimulus, right? So if it's just a drunk friend, it's just like, cool, we'll just get him down. It's not an appropriate time to be breaking arms or choking out or anything like that. Mason: And that seems like the word cancer is thrown in someone's face and it's like no matter what type it is, it's like that same reaction having a very intense reaction to just a drunk friend that just needs to be cuffed a little bit. And I know some prostate cancers could definitely be aggressive. I'm obviously curious, I'm not an expert in the area, but what's appropriate action? Is rushing into surgery necessary? Are the levels of surgeries going on necessary. Is everyone getting hysterical about it? Let's dive in. Dr. Espo: I am so happy you asked that question because I don't if your viewers, obviously your viewers can't see the smile on face right now because I love that question. And you should actually just take a screenshot and just say, this is how Ralph is smiling. Mason: Oh, don't worry. We've got the video recording as well. So guys, you can jump over on Instagram TV or YouTube and catch the video. Dr. Espo: Let me make sure my hair's good. Mason: Yeah. I should've told you that. Dr. Espo: Okay. So I love this question because there are different types or grades or ratings of prostate cancer. So we usually rate prostate cancer based on something we call a Gleason, right? So a Gleason is a score that a pathologist will take a prostate tissue and say this patient has a Gleason. So the Gleason score is one to five, and you get two scores, so to a some of 10. So the pathologist can look at one set of cells and say this is a Gleason five, like that's really aggressive, poorly differentiated, this is a bad looking cancer. And then they can look at another one and say, well this one's also a Gleason five. This is also really poorly differentiated, really aggressive. You are a Gleason 10. Dr. Espo: I've seen a dozen of those where it's just like there is no option here. You have to have your prostate removed because this is really, really bad. So now the AUA, the American Urological Association suggest that prostatectomy or prostate surgery should be considered when you have a Gleason six or above... I'm sorry, a Gleason seven or above is when you should start considering that. A Gleason six is borderline. So I'm a little bit of the thought that you should really take in the totality of the presentation. So number one is how quickly has the prostate level been increasing? So if you went from prostate level of one to two to three to four over four years, I'm concerned, that's increasing quite, quite rapidly. Or if you're going to one to two, to four to eight, that's a doubling time. That's extremely risky. So that's something you take into consideration. Dr. Espo: Then you do something called The 4KScore and a 4KScore takes into consideration four different types of PSA. So when you get a regular PSA scores, you're giving you total PSA, you could also do free PSA and then The 4K add two more PSAs. And those, you have an algorithm, when you take into consideration and you include all of them, you get a score and if the score is above seven, your risk of having an aggressive prostate cancer is high. But if your score is less than seven, 7%, then your risk of having an aggressive prostate cancers is lower. So I used that as a consideration as well. Dr. Espo: Then you look at family history and then you look at diet and lifestyle. Like if you smoked and if you drank and if you ate like crap and you have this family history and you had a Gleason six, I'm probably going to tell you, you know what, let's be very, very aggressive with this. Then I would say we should do MP-MRI, which is called a Multi-parametric MRI, which is a very, very specific and very advanced MRI that can look at your prostate and identify nodules very, very clearly and then also identify how risky they are for prostate cancer. Dr. Espo: So your question was very simple, but it's a very complex scenario and algorithm. And essentially what it comes down to is urologists are a little bit more, they're really a bit more excited to do surgery because look, their thought is, well, if I see a sign of cancer, let me just get rid of it so there's very little to no risk. Rather than saying, Oh, let me just watch it. But a lot of men don't want to have prostatectomies, they don't want their prostate removed because it can lead to incontinence. It can lead to erectile dysfunction. It can lead to chronic pain and it's not a cure.... Dr. Espo: If you miss a little bit of your prostate during the surgery, there's a risk of it coming back. Now, it depends on if it's spread or not, but I've seen men who get a prostate removed, their PSA is zero and then two years later their PSA is at like 0.8 and I'm like, huh. Point eight is low, but it's high if you don't have a problem with prostate. There are some breast cancers that can cause a PSA to increase, but that's like a canary in a coal mine. So you have to take all of these things into consideration. Dr. Espo: What I usually tell men is see two urologists and then see a integrative naturopathic functional medicine doctor who understands urology, who understands prostate cancer so they can really just be your quarterback and show you, "This is the whole picture. I'm not here to remove your prostate and I'm also not here. I'm also here to make sure you live forever. I have your best interests in mind. I don't have your pros... You know, the surgery is not my best. It's not in my best interest. So let me give you my, you know, 40,000 foot view." Mason: Are urologists often surgeons as well? Dr. Espo: Yes. Most of the time they are, there are urologists who don't do surgery, but most of the time they do. Mason: [inaudible 00:31:07] Yeah. So what do they call them? Scalp jockeys. Dr. Espo: I can't remember that. Mason: I get it. If you've got a particular skill and you've been trained in a particular way, you want to play the safe game, but is it the safe game longterm, they don't have to be there 20 years from now with you when you don't have a prostate, so. Dr. Espo: Right. Mason: So man, thanks for that. Such good information. Really good. It's bringing up a lot of reminders for me, I can make sure I'm staying onto it, but especially, just being able to have this information to share with like family members fathers and all that. So it's like, yeah. Awesome. Now testosterone levels in general we've talked about in the last pod how we don't necessarily, we're not necessarily aiming to just have like through the roof testosterone levels that, having it in levels we can't even prove that increased levels are going to relate to like super increased output and it's generally just making sure that it's not bottomed out or super excessive. Is there an association between testosterone levels and prostate issues? First of I'll ask you that quick snappy question Dr. Espo: Prostate issues as a totality of prostate cancer? Mason: Well, just as a totality. Dr. Espo: So increased dihydrotestosterone and its metabolites can increase your risk of enlarged prostate and some type of prostate cancers, but it's not the testosterone that is the issue. So I answered your short question with a short answer, but if you really want me to go in, I can. Mason: Yeah. Well let's go. What's the issue there? Because obviously beyond prostate health, this is going to have a huge effect on our overall health. Dr. Espo: Yeah. So what we've found is that the dihydrotestosterone, there's a beta and an alpha metabolite we call 3 alpha diol and 3 beta diol. And those are metabolites of DHT, and DHT alone can bind to androgen receptors, it binds to androgen receptors with a significantly increased affinity compared to testosterone. That's why a lot of men who take testosterone and they get acne or they get alopecia. So they lose their hair. That's because of the androgen gen receptors. So it has all to do androgen receptor sensitivity. Mason: Really? They get alopecia from testosterone therapy? Dr. Espo: Yeah, they certainly can. Yep. But then you have to look at the DHT and its metabolites. And the literature shows that the metabolites, these alpha and beta dial metabolics of DAC combined two estrogen receptors, and if the estrogen receptors that can cause the prostate to become poorly differentiated. So there's SGO receptors that cause the prostate to grow largely, but not maliciously. And then there's estrogen receptors that cause the prostate to grow maliciously. And it's the metabolites of the HT that bind to those receptors that cause it to grow maliciously, malignantly cause it to grow, what we say poorly differentiated, which then will cause the prostate to be more prone to prostate cancer. Mason: So is it estrogen mimicking? Dr. Espo: It's not estrogen mimic? Well, that an interesting question. Is it estrogen mimicking? I guess if you had defined estrogen mimicking as the ability to bind to estrogen receptors, then yes, it would. Mason: All right. Are those are the same... I don't know much about these pathways, but always what sticks in my head is 16 alpha hydroxy estrone being one that is turning on that I don't know if this is like a bit generalized, but the genes that can lead to prostate and breast cancer, is that kind of in that realm of those receptors that have been here? Dr. Espo: Different, actually a little bit different. So it's the four hydroxy metabolite of estrogen, so the 4OH estrogone that is more detrimental. And what it does, it causes DNA adducts. So actually, it does bind to estrogen receptors, but it actually goes into the nucleus, bind to your DNA and breaks up these DNA bonds and causes DNA adducts. So it genuinely destroys your DNA directly, whereas the two hydroxy estrogone is less likely to do that, is a little bit more protective and is has a lower affinity to make DNA adducts. Dr. Espo: And a great way to get rid of four hydroxy estrogone and two hydroxy estrogone is with methylation. And as you know with the Dutch test, which I just think it's an exceptional test, you can test those metabolites in your urine and you can also see how much of that is be converted to the methylated forms. And that'll tell you, are you capable of getting rid of these things if and when you are exposed to them. Mason: Cool. Okay, great. I mean, yeah, like we love Carrie. And I think the ladies have had it. We've recommended Dutch tests a lot, but of course, guys, and I'm really feeling it. I don't know, I'd love to get in there myself and get some actual, there's some real live panels going, so worth going and doing. But so I mean, this is something that comes around to springtime at the moment here. It's liver season and we just naturally go in there and just increase those methylators and whether it's just the B12 and betaine''ss and broccoli's and MSM, methylsulfonylmethane and so on and so forth. Just I guess really good to just get in there and clean house as well. The cruciferous vegetables. Right? Dr. Espo: Absolutely. And I think beyond that is why not just get it at the source and prevent your body from aromatizing all of this testosterone into estrogen, into E1. Mason: So then we do go into the conversation of aromatase inhibitors. I mean, I know a favorite is nettle root? I guess like a passion flower kind of fits in there. Dr. Espo: Passion flower has crisen in it. Yep. Mason: Okay. And that's, and that's what's causing that action? Dr. Espo: Yes, it is. Doses have to be very high, however. A high dose will be- Mason: On which level? Dr. Espo: Of crisen. Mason: Of crisen, okay. Dr. Espo: Of crisen. So the doses have to be higher because it's absorbed pretty poorly. So there is one company, I don't know the name of it but they do like liposomal and- Mason: Livon it. Is it those guys, the little satchels? The little- Dr. Espo: I don't remember. What was it called? Mason: L-I-V-O-N. Livon. Dr. Espo: I don't remember. That might be them. I don't use very much. What I do is I try to establish a lifestyle that prevents you from aromatizing because I think that has a larger impact. It's kind of like taking a piss in the ocean. If you.. If you try to take a piss in the ocean, it feels like you're doing something, but in the grand scheme of things, you're really not doing too much. So I think making sure you're having a low insulin type of diet or diet that is not conducive to hyperinsulinemia and I bet is void or limited and alcohol because alcohol will induce aromatase enzyme. You exercise and keep body fat down and weight train and keep your anaerobic activity high so that you can induce growth hormone and testosterone and keep cortisol levels down because those are the things that will push you to aromatase. Mason: Speaking of training, man, you're looking good. Dr. Espo: Oh yeah. I actually injured my shoulder recently. So my- Mason: So you're like this is nothing? Dr. Espo: You don't look so big anymore. I said, yeah, because all I could do is work out my legs. So I said, "Give me till the summer. I'll have a bottom just like J-Lo. Mason: I notice how jacked curves we're looking. In terms of training, just briefly... your life revolves around the optimization often, and therefore you've been a men's health specialist. It's like a very, very relevant for us to take a peak into the routine. What type of training you're doing, and then off the back of that, just have you got any supplements and things that you've taking around your training routine would just be like really nice to just get an insight. And you say a lot on the Instagram, so I'll say it for you. You don't say that what you take, everyone should take. So this is just Dr.Espo's routine. Dr. Espo: Yeah, this is my own personal routine. So my type of training revolved around weight training with very little rest. I don't do a lot of power lifting. I'm not trying to be the world's strongest man. And my goal of training is to induce an anaerobic response to increase lactic acid in a very short period of time in order to induce an optimal hormonal response. Because we do know that lactic acid in a very short burst will cause your body and your lighting cells to make more testosterone. That we know that is the mechanism by which we think weight training increases testosterone. So that's number one. Dr. Espo: I don't do endurance exercise, so you won't catch me running a half marathon. The most, I'll probably run it as a five K because you know, beyond 45 minutes of endurance high intensity or high zone, zone four, zone five or zone, yeah, zone three, zone four type of wei.. Endurance training, you will start increasing cortisol levels at approximately the 45 to 60 minute Mark. So you won't catch me doing that. Instead, I do short bursts of exercise that allow me to increase my aerobic capacity. So that would be like the Airdyne or I'll do like the Tabata type of training as part of my cardio. And then my downtime is yoga and stretching. Dr. Espo: So I am not a yoga expert. I would love to be because my mobility is crap. But beyond the mobility part, I find that we do need a little bit of... I mean, I live in New York, man. It's intense. It's stimulating. And I think yoga is a great way to just zone yourself out. Mason: What style of yoga's are you doing? Dr. Espo: Yeah.And then my supplements are, I do creatine monohydrate. I do beta alanine, I do some branch chain amino acids because I do time restricted feeding. So I typically only eat for about six to eight hours of the day. And if I work out fasting, I want to make sure that I'm optimizing my muscle synthesis. So branching amino acids helped me do that. And then all my other... my herbs, I do rhodiola, ashwagandha I actually do some deer antler as well. I actually, honestly, I love yours. I've noticed the best impact with that. I know a few other companies, I've used it I'm not saying that to brown nose, I actually find your product to be very good. Mason: Thanks man. Yeah, it's a really good product. I'm really proud of that one. Dr. Espo: Yeah. And surprisingly, I kind of liked the taste of it, so don't [inaudible 00:43:28]. A lot of people are like, "I hate the taste." I'm like, "Oh, it's actually not that bad." Mason: Yeah, I agree. Dr. Espo: And then yeah, that's pretty much it. And then B vitamins and et cetera and fish oil. Mason: On the fish oil as well. You got to get those omega's in. Dr. Espo: Yes, absolutely. I do a lot of flax and chia, but I like to get my EPA and DHA straight, so I do that. Mason: Yeah, of course, man. So good. Hey before, you know, we've gone on for a little bit here, but we've got a while longer for possibly the most important conversation we'll be having in Brovember is around mental health. Suicide levels have been crazy high. Unacceptably high in men, in the Western world. I might just like open... Let's just open that book and dive down. Do you want to just like start us off in this conversation and your work around it? Dr. Espo: Yeah, I think this is a really important conversation to have because a lot of men don't really realize that one of major killers in men under the age of 30 is suicide or accidents or homicide. And it's really important to discuss because approximately 20% of all accidents and injuries are due to suicide in men, depending on your age. So usually from like 20 to about 35 is when you're at the highest risk. And as you get older, that risk tends to decrease. But I really want to emphasize the fact that mental health is super important and it's important because you need to know when you're not well, and it's okay to say when you're unwell. I think there's a little bit of a stigma around saying you're mentally fatigued or anxious or depressed or moody, right? Dr. Espo: It's like, no, only women can be moody around their period. Like, no, that's bullshit. Number one, not all women are moody around their period and men can be moody too. So it's okay to say that you're feeling that way. And certainly it's a life risk factor for young men. And I actually see it a lot more because I see more men, but you see young men who have the pressures of being like their dad or being like they're superheroes, right? And they want to do performance enhancing drugs and they want to take testosterone and they want to do all these things to improve their appearance or the way they appear to social media, right? But in the inside, all that shit is fake. Mason: It's all fake. Dr. Espo: It's all fake. My Instagram feed when you go into the search has bunch of guys like with six pack abs, eat this, not that have this to lose body fat. Like not everybody is like that. Mason: Well, and that's the thing about training. I mean... Dan Sipple, who introduced us, he was on the podcast and we were talking around about the shame sometimes that we have around building testosterone at this point. And really coming into this place where we're really potentiating ourselves, especially if you are aware of just how stupidly superficial and boofy, the #Gains Instagram fitness world is that doesn't necessarily seem to have much intention. Mason: And I think the other thing around these physical trainings is they're not embedded in a philosophy that has any ancient roots or any genuine intention that a human, a healthy human would have towards being just a beautiful person for themselves and community and have longevity in the way that they are, that they can continue just to, right up into the end, be able to have a chuckle and stay you know, contributing beautiful person. Mason: And so I think it's always important to realize how detrimental all that stuff is to mental health. And then where I found myself in when having my identity crisis. I wasn't in the bodybuilding kind of world, but I was definitely in the excessive health world that leads you down towards more orthorexia in obsession with what I was eating. But then you start getting into this like exasperation of like, if it's not about that identity crisis, if it's not about that, what is it about? Mason: And if there is that, well if they're, there's is, as I said, there's a that quagmire, which seems to not be, you can't on the mesh that desire to potentiate your physicality and be a robust human without associating with that part of yourself that historically had the identity wrapped so far up and in high up in those gains equaling you being a quality human or being someone that is worthy. And so I feel like that conversation is being had more and more. But not real question, I'll throw it back over to you now. I'm not necessarily the answer or anything, but yeah, you just brought that reflection up in me. Dr. Espo: Yeah. I mean I don't think there is an answer. I think the answer is just make sure you take care of yourself. You do need self care. You can't be macho and tough all the time. I meditate every morning. If I'm feeling down, I tell my girlfriend or I tell my family, "I'm not feeling well right now. Like I'm not doing okay." "Well why?" "Because I'm not sleeping or I'm stressed out over this." It's okay to say those things because they're there to help you and you need help sometimes. We can't be expected... just piggybacking on what you said, humans, we are social animals, we are group animals, and we do well when we have support and that's just how we've evolved. And we've seen this for centuries of just human culture and it's typically when we become supporting each other as when we can achieve the most. Dr. Espo: No one person has basically taken credit for the greatest inventions in the world, right? It's always been a collaborative process. And your health should be viewed the same way. If you want optimal health, it should be a collaborative process. So make sure you have the right social support, make sure you have the right access to foods, make sure you have the right access to doctors and physicians and therapists and acupuncturists and trainers and all of those, whatever you need. But build your clan so that it can support you. Don't expect to do this on your own. Dr. Espo: And I think that's the most important part about mental health is like, we do see a lot of mental health issues in today's society and we do see a lot of gun shootings. And whether that's a result of media or whatever it is, it doesn't matter. It's still exists and we should aware that it's manageable before it gets to that point. Mason: Couple of things just in terms of you talking to your family and just kind of say like, I'm not doing so well, not sleeping, not doing. I think the whole stigma around when men finally get to that point where they have to go down. It's like with the man flu, it's like tough and burly, hold on tough, tough, tough, tough. She'll be right, mate. And then if you do need to really go down, if you get the flu, the only way you can justify it as a lot of the time is to go into like victim and really sooky mode. Mason: And what you're talking about and just like has been really significant in my life is when you are asked like how you're doing, people who are close to you, of course you have to go around to saying it to strangers. But not needing it to be like really super charged and not necessarily needing to so much significance and victim- hood into it. Mason: Just being kind of like, how healthy it is just to release the pressure and just be like, "Yeah, not so great at the moment. I've just been like sad and I've been going down every now and then and not feeling like I have much motivation. I can't really see a point, whatever you know of. Although those are very significant feelings and you go and talk to someone. Even if it is like if it's not like a massive, big thing, just having like a real, it's almost a nonchalant sharing with your family. It doesn't have to come from like victimhood, but you don't have to do anything with them. You don't have to solve anything. It's just that gentle sharing consistently what you're feeling is really significant Dr. Espo: And it can make you feel better. Mason: Yeah. Dr. Espo: And that's really what we want. We just want you to be well, and just by saying it, "I'm not feeling so great right now." It's like, Oh, okay. I've been able to come to terms with that. Well, that's what meditation is, right? But I meditate every day. I'm thinking about a million different things while I'm meditating. But I still come back to my thought. I'm like, okay, I am thinking about those things, therefore I can overcome them and overthink them. Same thing about expressing your feelings. Mason: Yeah, that's significant in terms of many different styles of meditation, many different ways that you can practice and have reflection in the morning. But what you are speaking to is very simple, yet profound and almost can't be captured in one particular practice because it's synonymous with a healthy human who's giving yourself space to be like, ah, you know what? You would've just gone and distracted yourself all day. However, that obviously is very important to me and it's triggering a pattern and it's going to be playing out through my day. Maybe I can grab it and do something about it. That's so good, man. Hey, is there anything else you wanna say on that? Dr. Espo: No, I think we've hit all the right points. I just want men to know, you know, it's, we all feel that. Mason: Oh yeah, we do. I just went and had a recently at a good psychological little clean out to put it in a jovial sense. But I just went and had a week offline doing a bit of that work and feel all better for us and all the benefit of not having to do it on the sly and in the shadows. Dr. Espo: Absolutely. Mason: I'll let you go in a second. I just wanted to just quickly end on andropause. I know this is probably a huge conversation, but I know we probably have a somewhat of a handle on what it is, but can I just ask you from your perspective, what is andropause and what is it in very much if you want to get like energetic and spiritual about what it is for human, I'd kind of feel in that way. It's obviously a bridging, but physiologically I assume everything we've talked about is going to help us maintain an easy transition. But what can we prepare for and look out for in ourselves or when we're observing family members going through it? Dr. Espo: Yeah. I think in essence andropause or mano-pause or whatever you want to call it, is the point at which men start experiencing a change in their hormones. Similar to female menopause except female menopause typically happens sometimes like this, just like your hormones drop. Whereas men, I think after the age of 30, they lose about 1.1 to like 1.6% of their testosterone per year. All right. So it seems very slow progress and essentially it's a point in which a man feels less like his 20 or 30-year-old self. And it's a psychological experience. It's a physiological experience. Sex drive is lower. They don't recover from poor sleep as well. They don't recover from poor diet as well. They have more aches and pains from weight training. They're really sore after and they have sexual dysfunction and things like that. Dr. Espo: That is what... and then obviously they have low testosterone levels. They don't have low testosterone levels to be in menopause or andropause. So it's essentially a period in a man's life as to which they are experiencing these things, which can be contributed to low testosterone, but it doesn't have to happen when you're 50. So it can happen younger, but that we just call that hypogonadism or low testosterone or testosterone deficiency. But it can happen when you're like 70, and that's a normal response because over time your fertility does decrease and your brain does become fatigued if you're under the chronic stress of 70 years. Dr. Espo: So it's something that occurs frequently, but it's not necessarily normal. Like menopause, female menopause is a normal physiologic response. But with men, that doesn't have to be that way. And I think it's largely a lifestyle issue that's comorbid with obesity and metabolic syndrome and high insulin levels and weight gain and et cetera. Mason: Wow. So, yeah. Right. So it's like, it's just a little bit of a wake up call away then. Dr. Espo: Yeah. It's like, Hey, something's wrong here. The first thing I usually come in, the first thing to go is your sexual dysfunction. And when you notice that your penis isn't working as well, that should be a sign to say, all right, let me get on top of this because something's wrong. Mason: So I mean, it's almost like at that, when you kind of exit that lifespan and enter into that death span, right? Like I imagine it's that same like you've in a Taoist perspective, you've basically burned through your Jing and you therefore don't have the ability to maintain and manage, the function of the skeletal system, bone marrow and androgens. Right? Dr. Espo: Right. Exactly. So, in Chinese medicine, it's a Jing deficiency. Mason: All right. I love it. And it just the fact that andropause is a wake up call and you can start getting on top of your health now integrating all these things that we're talking about and not have to go through that process. You can give yourself a wake up calls in other ways that aren't as intense. Dr. Espo: Right. Mason: All right. Man, I love it. I really appreciate you coming on for Brovember and laying all this down. I know everyone else does. But let's tune in. Obviously you've got areas that you're deeply researching. Make sure you let me know when you start cracking into something like really new and juicy. Hit me up and we'll go for around four. Dr. Espo: You got it, man. Mason: I recommend everyone go and follow you on Insta. You really rocking it even just going back to your story highlights, you've got like a heaps of really deep information on there. Are you Dr. Ralph Espo, is that right? Dr. Espo: It's dr.ralphesposito. Mason: All right, Doc, I will put it in the show notes as well. And website? Dr. Espo: Right now it's just Instagram. That is under development. Mason: Okay. Sweet. Thanks so much, bro. Dr. Espo: (Thanks man. Thanks for having me.

# 43 Men's Hormones: Everything You Need To Know with Dan Sipple

KHOL Jackson Hole Community Radio 89.1 FM

Play Episode Listen Later Oct 28, 2019 68:30

November, or Brovember as we like to call it, is all about our men's health at SuperFeast. Today we're thrilled to have our good friend Dan Sipple back on the podcast. Dan is absolute gem and wealth of information in his field of natural medicine. In today's chat Mason and Dan discuss the importance of men's hormonal health and outline the diet and lifestyle factors men can embody to keep their hormones primed and rocking. Dan and Mason break down: The male hormonal cascades. The importance of brain and cognitive health in regards to male fertility. The influence of diet and lifestyle on healthy hormonal function. The two simple pillars of hormone health; Sleep and Breath. Testosterone; the amazing hormone. Detoxification and reproductive health. Genetic testing. The connection between abnormally high iron (ferritin) and male infertility. The role zinc plays in the conversion of androgens. The damaging effects of chronic inflammation in regards to hormonal health. Naked sunbathing and vitamin D3. The herbs that stimulate and antagonise androgens. Who is Dan Sipple? Dan is a also known as The Functional Naturopath who uses cutting-edge evidence-based medicine. Experienced in modalities such as herbal nutritional medicine, with a strong focus on environmental health and longevity, Dan has a wealth of knowledge in root-dysfunction health. Resources: Dan Instagram Dan Email Benny Fergusion - The Movement Monk The Dutch Test - Carrie Jones Podcast with Tahnee The Wildcrafting Brewer Book by Pascal Baudar SuperFeast Deer Antler SuperFeast Ashwagandha SuperFeast Eucommia Bark SuperFeast Cordyceps Q: How Can I Support The SuperFeast Podcast? A: Tell all your friends and family and share online! We’d also love it if you could subscribe and review this podcast on iTunes. Or check us out on Stitcher :)! Plus we're on Spotify! Check Out The Transcript Here: Mason: Hello everybody, we're welcoming back our good mate Dan, Dan Sipple, functional naturopath, how are you going man? Dan Sipple: Mate, I am fantastic today, how about you? Mason: Yeah, I'm really good. It's a nice sunny day down there, nice sunny day up here, we'll get into why that's significant and important if you're a man, you're going to be very happy at those points when the sun comes out. Thanks for joining me for Brovember here at SuperFeast focusing especially on this pod, going through some very important aspects and elements for men's health, men's physiology, things that, it's just going to be great. As they say, "They should teach this in schools," because it would actually be useful for us to understand about our hormonal cascades and our physiology going forth. Dan Sipple: Absolutely, and it's exciting. It's an exciting time to be alive and loving all the information that is just coming through right now in our amazing little world of natural health and how that can affect hormones and we'll dive obviously deep into all that stuff today I'm sure. Mason: Yeah, I think it's great as well. I really like this time of being alive as well, because we've gone through the extreme deconstruction of what's going on with health, and including lifestyle and dietary kind of fads that have been reduced to their parts. Likewise, of course we've learned a lot about the body through a reductionist western model, which can even sometimes cross over into naturopathic thought, but then it's synthesising and emerging, and just a real blossoming time where it's kind of coming together and being able to come into harmony in a lifestyle long term that doesn't make you feel like you as a person, in working on these things, need to reduce aspects of your lifestyle to work on them necessarily. Mason: Of course there's going to be areas where we put our focus upon, it's a very important thing for men to be able to do and then the aspect of men to able to have laser-like focus on something we're working on. That's when men can quite often in health scene loose themselves and we see that in many areas of dietary faddiness and going, that focus takes us right down the barrel of dogma or down the barrel of something like the more of the extreme bio-hacking kind of scenes, where we remain compartmentalised in our day, or our supplementation, or our diet. Mason: I think now we're seeing that the emergence of us being very aware that we have a foundational personal culture, lifestyle that mingles in with our family and our community and how can we sculpt an integrative lifestyle that's going to lead to these various markers, these various hormonal cascades and processes to be naturally nourished and able to function and regulate themselves, just through us living our lives, right? Dan Sipple: Absolutely, and I think people, men and women are just.. It's A time in the human existence where it's like we're feeling it now. People just know that there's something not quite right, and obviously being a naturopath, I'm a little bit biased because I'm seeing a lot of those people, naturally. But I think I read a study a couple of weeks ago that was saying something like men in even the 60s and 70s had just such a higher grade of production across the board of testosterone compared to men now. And it's a scary thought. I think I read in the same study something like by 2035, the rates of infertility in males is just going to absolutely sky rocket should all the factors, which disrupt that sort of cascade continue to be at work. Mason: Boys, let's learn how to not become just another statistic, take control of your sovereign health and hopefully end up with nice healthy levels of testosterone. Of course we'll have a little bit of, I guess that will be a little bit of a pillar. Where we go is you take us through the entire hormonal cascade from upstream, right through the middle of the stream, to downstream and then I feel like, you will of course go into this physiologically, but lifestyle wise, how that downstream is then ... We talked a little bit about it if we are a microcosm, in the macrocosm here where, and we have the reflection of nature within us, of course it isn't just upstream to downstream and then you get your results. What's going on downstream is very much going to evaporate and emerge and go right up to the top of the stream and affect our ability that, you know those kingpin aspects of our health. Mason: So, with that lets start jumping in. Was it the hormonal cascade in general and just the nature of that and the process of that do you want to take us through primarily? Dan Sipple: Yeah, I think it would be good just to do a little refresher on the actual physiological side of it, just to give focus on a bit of a mental picture. And if there's anything the guys take away from this today, and girls, it's that, just not to focus on male hormone production at the area of the downstream like you said, the testes and the adrenals. And to really factor in how important brain health is, and cognitive health, because that organ itself is the master commander, it's commanding that communication down to those organs to say, hey make testosterone mate, make DHEA et cetera. Dan Sipple: And that all starts from two hormonal chemicals, I guess you call them. Follicle Stimulating Hormone FSH, and Luteinizing Hormone LH. So they're speaking down to the leydic cells in the testicles to say make hormones, make testosterone and they operate like many hormones do on a bit of a feedback mechanism, a negative feedback mechanism. So for example, if testosterone down at the testicular level is adequate, FSH and LH back off in men and in women respectively with testis and ovaries. Dan Sipple: Likewise, if the production is low, those at the higher end in the pituitary LH and FSH will spark up and start screaming down at those organs to say, make more hormones, make more hormones. And there's a lot of things that we'll get into that can disrupt the communication between those two vital organs. So I've got that going on and then in terms of the steroid pathways, that's another kind of area that you weigh into the equation with regards to how cholesterol from the diet then gets transferred down into hormones like Pregnenolone and Progesterone, and across to precursors to testosterone and oestrogen like androstenedion. And again, things can go a little bit haywire during that conversion if there are other factors that play such as things like stress, acute infection, illness, a plethora of things, different herbs as well will affect the destination. Ultimately those signals. Dan Sipple: But essentially, we're starting at cholesterol and we're wanting to get down to progesterone in men and females. What can happen as a bit of something in between those two, an interruption if you like, is we call this the pregnenolone steal, and there's still a little bit of controversy around that in our field on whether it's actually a thing. You'll read a lot about that online and whatnot. The theory is that cholesterol starts and if it doesn't reach progesterone, pregnenolone comes in and diverts that signal down to cortisol, which is the stress pathway, and away from testosterone and away from oestrogen and away from DHEA, which for men and females are all the hormones responsible for making you feel strong, resilient, able to recover, confident, et cetera. Dan Sipple: With today's level of chronic stress and inflammation, a lot of hormonal panels when we look at them in folks with different stuff going on, will show that they've got a lot of production going down that cortisol pathway. It's being stolen if you like, hence the phrase the pregnenolone steal. Mason: And so, let me know whether you want to just go through the full range first to give us an insight, or whether you want to just start diving in there, because that seems like one of those critical physiological points. And when you're talking about stress, we've kind of gone through the stress model before in a podcast, but clinically, was it the pregnenolone steal? Is that what you said? Dan Sipple: Yep. Mason: So at that point, when you say chronic stress, you're talking about a diet that's going to be causing high amounts of inflammation and you're generally going to talk about a lifestyle that's going to keep you within the variations of a sympathetic nervous system, rather than being able to get into that deep parasympathetic. Mason: This is something interesting because clinically we see it a lot of the time and we hear it again and again and again, being banged on about getting out of the stress response and making sure you don't have stress in your lifestyle. But then, of course that's kind of a reductionist view in itself in terms of it's like a light switch and when it's on, you're in sympathetic and you're stressed and you're running away from the tiger. And we are boom, we turn it off and now you just happen to be relaxed. Mason: I feel like there's more and more, the conversation in men's health and women's health as well is coming to the various nuances and the personal relationship that you have with the reality of what a parasympathetic state is and what being able to approach the world in a way where you're nervous system isn't running a rye, your amygdala isn't throwing up past fears and memories that are then affecting your HPA axis and therefore taxing your adrenals. There's so many different nuances and because men are so focused and love to hanging on to things especially in processing mentally things, it's like all right, now I need practices that switch it off, turn it off and get me into this static thing that is a parasympathetic system. Mason: So, I'm just interested in some of, just clinically of course you're bridging people to try and get some protocols going, where they're maybe meditating, maybe doing something like a yin yoga or generally just coming back to their breath daily in order to really approach life in kind of more a balance between that yin and yang. But have you got any kind of tips or insights in terms of how we're going to deal with that stress without it being a reductionist conversation? Dan Sipple: That's a big question, I like it. I'll say first of all, the first two things that I always try and dial in, sleep and breath. Sleep and breath. It's that simple. If you can get a male, take a tradie for example. I see a lot of tradies down here. High pressure, they have to be able to exert authority on the job side, they have to be able to cope in that environment, and the ones that can't, usually leave the trade, from what I hear. Dan Sipple: But getting them to dial down from that, that sort of level of activity once the day is over, and just getting them doing this simple stuff like I say, if you can just do one minute, if you can do 60 seconds, where you can take literally eight to 10 breaths only, to get down to that level. That done daily as soon as you get home. So go outside, strip off your clothes, get you bare feet on the grass, sit down, let the sun hit you, have a chamomile tea or something like that, that's just going to take that edge off, probably the worst thing to do, which a lot do, is just go and smash four or five beers, and that's [crosstalk 00:11:30], because they want that [inaudible 00:11:31]. It's understandable, they want to come down. But we'll get into why that's not a great idea down the line. Dan Sipple: Breath and sleep, just dialling those two in. And sleep is something that so many people, I know I've banged on about this in the past, but I find people get it right and then they drift away from it and they forget that they got it right, and they slip back into old habits and they become really hyper-focused on the supplements and the weights and the diet and all that, but they forget the sleep. And I'm guilty of it 100%, I put my hand up. It's always something that I'm constantly trying to reel back in. I don't know about you, but it's something that I just find, if it's out of whack, there's no point even trying with the other stuff. That has to be first and foremost. Mason: I mean it's an interesting thing because you're right. And men are quite often, and then generally going to be those kinds of people that you give them an inch and they'll take a mile. And so, if you treat sleep and having somewhat of a subtle breath practice or even throughout your day where you can come into noticing your breath and allow that noticing without agenda to be the precursor for your actions, so in that awareness of the breath, you are leaving space for a non-stuck in the mental state, or non-stuck in an over identification with the physical to take place. In that space when you're just observing the breath. You then have an ability to have a noticing of what's going on with the mind and what's going on with the body and therefore there's less division and there's less as you said, that focusing on the thing which the mind tries to do. I'm going to do these weights to heal this problem, I'm going to do this ... Mason: So when it comes down to, there is, although that stuff is fun, you're never going to be able to go past the chop wood, carry water practice. Now if you really think about that, rather than it being just another thing, great, I'll take on that practice of chopping wood, carrying water and just doing that mundane for the rest of my life ... I was talking to my acupuncturist about it the other day and he was just like, and I was like, "Yeah man, that chop wood, carry water, I'm really working on it, but it can be really fleeting at times." And he was just like, "Listen mate ..." And my interpretation is we have such a privileged world, where we don't actually have to do the chopping of wood and carrying of water, but we do have to go to work every day, we need to be working on our homes and our cars and things that keep us going so that we can have the wood in the warmth and the material for us to live in this house and the water. Mason: Normally we're thing like actually chopping wood and actually getting up and carrying water and bringing that so we have something to drink, but now we're doing it in different ways, but it's the same thing. Keep ourselves warm and sheltered with chopping that wood and ensuring that you always have water to sustain life and cook with and prepare everything that we rely on water to do. Mason: That, because those practices are as methodical and slow and Yin in their repetitiveness as they were, they're very dynamic, naturally we need to lean a little bit more into the intentional nature of there are things like chopping wood, carry water, if you think about doing that for the next 40 years, this is what my acupuncturist was talking about, classically trained, worth mentioning, not modern TCM style. Is that, you're doing that for 40 years, of course along the way you are going to have some big pops and big insights and it's going to be moments of enlightenment, which of course the whole nature of chop wood, carry water is to release that enlightenment, otherwise you will be stuck in that place. And then, if you look at the majority of it, it's going to be very mundane, very boring, and very repetitive. Mason: But the nature of that is so beautiful in what it's going to do if you're going to accept that, and realize it's not always going to be bells and whistles. All of a sudden, the simple act of chopping wood and carrying water and coming consistently back to the breath and back to your practice daily, if that's one minute or if it's back to that practice of that discipline of screens down, creating that beautiful sleep environment, absolutely prioritizing bedtime, and if I can't prioritise, be able to get to stay up and stay asleep the next morning. Mason: We all have kids, a lot of us have kids, a lot of us have hectic jobs and social lives. But that chop wood and carry water, I think at the essence of this men's health message, that needs to be respected and honored, even if you're standing solid in your Yang. If you look at the Yin and Yang symbol, there is always going to be that place where you can stand with the Yin, within the Yang to ensure that, that is there and present so you don't have these hormonal stealings, which are going to lead us, this generation being dramatically lower in testosterone, and basically emasculated, right? Dan Sipple: Totally, and that's the thing too. How many males do we know that over train and spend too much time if you like in TCM terms, in the Yang, and just burning that furnace, I've got to lift weights and I've got to smash it and I've got to do this and do that. And I've got to make so much testosterone jacked up, and this and that. And it's like yeah, do all those things and that's cool, but fuck, regenerate man, get that sleep, get that breath dialed in. You have to regenerate, you have to dial in to regenerating, otherwise, let's face it, it's when you sleep that you build your testosterone and your growth hormone. Mason: In your blood, right? Dan Sipple: Yeah, and your blood. Mason: It's in your blood. That's kind of what I think, women are so, women are more sensitive to it because women are way more prone to running low on blood. Women are running on blood. We're running on Qi generally, and so it's a little bit, because we're not bleeding every month, it's a little bit harder for us to become deficient in blood, but it comes up and bites men in the arse, it's a gradual thing, but when you're over-training, over-ejaculation, overworking, in your mind excessively, you can go for so long. But then eventually bit by bit, you're chipping away at that blood and that Jing and ultimately when you look at what's going on hormonally, you're chipping away at the efficacy of these pathways and so you're going to end up in a place where you are deficient and it's not going to be a supplement, and it's not going to be a training session that's going to be able to turn that back on, build that blood back and actually restore the ability of these pathways. Dan Sipple: Mm-hmm (affirmative), 100%. And I want to make it clear too to the men listening. I'm not saying don't do all these things, we're not saying don't go and lift weights, and don't try and optimize testosterone, because I still think there's a lot of shame politically around that today, which I really want to see dispel. I hope this doesn't come across the wrong way, but I feel like, especially in naturopathy especially, there's a lot of focus on female hormonal health and it's totally acceptable and it's not even thought of twice for a female to want to optimize her estrogen and her progesterone and regulate her cycle and yadi, yadi, yada. Dan Sipple: As soon as a male wants to build up his testosterone, I feel like there's a bit of a stigma there still in some circles. Mason: You know who kind of cracks that with Stephen Harrod Buhner. He was totally in those herbal scenes going, "Hang on, we've got this huge apothecary full of phytoestrogenic herbs that are absolutely incredible for women's hormonal health." And we've got really nothing driving androgen, no herbs driving androgen, basically androgenic herbs. And then when he brought pine pollen, and that book on pine pollen that I think he supported or wrote, but he just championed it. Mason: Because he's such a gentle man, I feel like it was accepted, and he begun the process. But you are right, if you are taking pine pollen even to an extent ashwagandha, deer antler is probably the biggest one where people associate it with, of course maybe not in this community as much, but very much generalising. But you're right, the stigma is there, you're a boof head for wanting to, "You want to jack up your testosterone do you? Yeah, Good on you." In order to develop Shen, far out. In order to continue to grow our personality, emotionally, spiritually going deep into the ether of ourselves in order to become better humans, better men, you absolutely require that baseline testosterone optimisation. Mason: I'm with you, and it also comes down to the way that men approach it. There's no other context rather than, all right, you know we're going to like get, I just want to jack up my testosterone, I don't know how that connects to everything else. The only association with it is to become "more manly" and therefore that has a glass ceiling on its usefulness, right? Dan Sipple: Totally, yep. You nailed it, and that's another thing I really want to highlight too in that context is that don't just think of testosterone as my testosterone is up because I'm horny, because I feel like I'm keen and I'm good to go. Na man, bone health, you need to [crosstalk] testosterone, and immune function you need testosterone. Cognitive health, brain health, sleeping well, recovering, all that sort of stuff as well comes into that amazing hormone, which is testosterone. Dan Sipple: And I say to a lot of patients too, our physiology and our genetic demands and our DNA is, it sounds really harsh, but it does not give a shit about what's going on today societally. It doesn't care that we've got food problems and government problems and this problem and that problem. It's demands are exactly the same as they were seventy years ago, and you have to serve that. I'm sorry, you have to recognise that, and the sooner you do and start getting things back to simplicity like it's referring to, chopping your wood and your carrying your water. They're metaphors, but the audience, and I know exactly what you mean by that. Stripping things back to that simplicity just so that as a man you are serving your physiology and you're not putting things into your body and putting practices around your environment which affect that. Mason: So, just to kind of finish up on that, that stress conversation. I feel like it's a good point. If any guys, they feel like they're really rocking their physical practice in terms of, in that aspect of men's health, whether you feel like it's, whether you're lifting weights or you're running or whether it's MMA or whatever. If you've got that kind of side rocking and you're really loving it, you want to make, then you want to have like a more integrative practice in a way of training and practicing, approaching life from that parasympathetic place so that you can widen your cup, so that cup can hold more of these androgenic hormones and testosterone. Mason: My man Benny Ferguson has that really, really great programs, you can get in touch with him to see what might be ideal, but whether it's the tension release programs or in body flexibility or whatever it is, there's some really beautiful practices and you can hopefully find something there for yourself and as well, connect to the breath outside of dogmatic or, not that they're all dogmatic, but sometimes you don't want to enter into another clique. You don't want to go into a different style of yoga, you don't want to go into a different style of soft martial art. You want to just be working on your pure physiology and connecting to your breath and there's many people doing that in a way that's not just based on cues and rules of what it should look like to get good output. Many people are doing that, but Benny happens to be the one that I work with and I think he can be a really great resource for a lot of people, he's a beautiful man. Mason: So that stress, I think we've kind of really hit somewhat of a core of that ability to not maintain a life that's not philosophically stressful in the way that you approach it. Is there any other aspects of the pathways you want to go into before you jump into cholesterol? Otherwise, I want to really hear your two sense on it. Dan Sipple: Just touching back on that cascade we got kind of from cholesterol to progesterone, if all things are going well, then across to Androstenedione and then again if all things are still going well, across the testosterone ultimately. Dan Sipple: An important thing to look at there is, and it gets a little bit tricky, but I'll try and break it down, aromatase, which is an enzyme which influences or encourages the conversion of testosterone down to estradiol or E2 in men and female. And the really neat thing is when you do a DUTCH test by the Precision Analytical Company- Mason: That's not [Carrie] is it? Dan Sipple: That's Carrie. Mason: Dr. Carrie Jones, so that's for men as well, did you say? Dan Sipple: Totally, yep. Mason: That's cool. That was a great podcast that Tahnee had Dr Jones on. All right, great. We will put that in the show notes, so- Dan Sipple: She is a weapon. If anyone hasn't followed her yet on Instagram Dr. Carrie Jones, she's amazing. Dan Sipple: There's certain compounds that are going to influence that conversion, but ultimately if you're a man, obviously you want to keep it dialled in at testosterone, you don't want to lose that to a conversion process down to oestrogen, which inflammation, excess body fat, high insulin. So if you're getting too much carbohydrate and refined sugars, you'll influence that. Alcohol is a classic one that's going to encourage testosterone to convert down to oestrogen. And- Mason: A man's drink. Dan Sipple: That's right, exactly. Mason: Beer made with the most oestrogenic herb on the planet- Dan Sipple: Can't be- Mason: [crosstalk 00:25:47]. Dan Sipple: What do you mean? That's right. Guys, beer, we have alcohol and we've got hops in there, double whammy, not so good for your testosterone. Mason: Yeah, but it's so delicious. Dan Sipple: I know. Mason: I think that's a nice thing, we'll bring it home in the end. We'll talk about, really, I can't stand having a rule based approach, not allowed this, not allowed that, so it's like ... My gosh, I can't wait until natural androgenic beers starts actually hitting the market. It's going to be the most incredible revelation and this is going to pop it for men that, Hops is literally, I think literally the most oestrogen forming herb that we have on the planet, and the man's drink not only you have like a shit load of beer, you're going to have excessive alcohol in the system, which is going to help, it's going to ... Is it an antagonist for aromatase? Dan Sipple: It encourages aromatase. So aromatase, you want to inhibit it ideally. So I think like zinc, grape seed extracts- Mason: Nettle root. Dan Sipple: Nettle, you've got damiana, [inaudible] and those sort of things, will inhibit that conversion, that enzyme. But yeah, androgenic beer, man. Mason: Yeah, pine pollen beer with no Hops, no grain, it's going to be the best thing. Everyone can go and get, and then start making their own with Pascal [Boudet 00:27:12], I think I've got my French- Dan Sipple: Have you done it before? Have you experimented with- Mason: We don't have that kind of crazy time, we try every now and then, [Tahnee] and I try to, we're kind of working our way back into being in the kitchen where we can get really fermenty again. We've gone and done the workshop with Pascal, where we went and foraged everything we made. We made a beer with few different types of sages and reishi's and fermented limes and a shit load of mugwort in order to bring out that bitterness. I've had a lot of natural beers and it's just like, it's watery, it doesn't have that oomph and punch that a beer normally does. But Pascal, I think he's the wild brewer, anyway ... Mason: Pascal is, we'll put the notes for the book down there. He's got a wild crafting brewer, or something like that, and he can teach you how to make these natural beers and you can just go and put pine pollen in there. You can either use SuperFeast like Deer Antler or we'll go to China Town and get deer antler slices and throw that in there to the fermentation process. Then you're kind of working with something, and you're working with an androgenic beer, but the way he makes them, he gets the flavour profile and he gets that meatiness that you need to hit the spot. Mason: So we started with aromatase and we went off to beer, but that's natural. Dan Sipple: That's all good. And then additionally into aromatase, there's another enzyme called 5-alpha reductase, which can also push testosterone down to its more potent form, 5-alpha DHT, which is also known as dihydrotestosterone. I think there's still a little bit of debate on whether you want to limit that conversion or whether no, You actually do want some healthy degree of DHT, which is the more potent androgen form of testosterone. I think there was a bit of a stigma because of the association and literature around BPH, Benign Prostatic Hyperplasia, and that being associated so they say, with higher DHT, dihydrotestosterone. Dan Sipple: We'll get into further, but that's essentially what I wanted to kind of just bring to light, the cholesterol conversion, and then once you arrive at testosterone, if all is going well down that cascade and that chain, keeping it there, rather than letting it go to those other hormones which we don't really want too much of as males. Mason: In terms of like the estriol or the estradiol. Dan Sipple: Yeah. Mason: Okay. Dan Sipple: And cortisol too. Yeah. Mason: Where does the cortisol come into it? Is that in the pregnenolone steal? Dan Sipple: That's right, so that's backup the chain. So that's before it gone across to testosterone, so it starts at cholesterol. You want it to get down to progesterone and then skate across from progesterone to the androgen pathways, but between cholesterol and progesterone, pregnenolone is kind of in the middle there and that can divert it if you like, down to the stress pathway...cortisol. Mason: Okay, cool. Well, let's go up and let's start breaking it down a little bit. So cholesterol, I think by now most people should know, but if you don't know, is the primary ingredient for the creation of hormones. Backbone of creation of hormones, so that's why you see a lot of people getting very passionate about having the inclusion of cholesterol in saturated fats in the diet, especially back probably a decade ago. It was like a massive kickback on a wider scale from those low fat diets and the 80-10-10 diets. 80% carbohydrates and sugars, 10% fats, 10% protein. Mason: And even in a lot of vegan and raw circles, as that kind of got to it's height, you saw a lot of endocrine disruption occurring and it kind of, a lot of it came down to the fact that no one actually had the backbone for the creation of hormones and then naturally that affected the nervous system as well. So, now it seems more of a normal conversation and there isn't that, even on a cultural level in Australia at least, there's not as much of championing of low fat diet. Dan Sipple: There was. Mason: Yeah, I don't even know whether the Healthy Heart Tick, I don't know whether that institution of dieticians is ever going to budge. But I don't know where you're at with your knowledge, [crosstalk 00:31:26]. Dan Sipple: I don't even look at what they're doing anymore Mason, to be totally honest with you. It sometimes comes up in a conversation with a dietician or around the traps, but I try and shy away to be totally honest. Mason: But this study from Sanatorium told me- Dan Sipple: You've got it. We digress. Mason: All right, so what have you got to say on the cholesterol front? Dan Sipple: Well look, I see a lot of people on plant based diets and a lot of people on the flip side, that are doing close to carnivore diets. So I see them both. I think it's important to highlight that the body is a machine and a weapon and it will do its best to serve you no matter what diet you're doing for a time. In the plant based realms, I can hear people going, "But I get plenty of cholesterol, I have coconut oil for this, and I put coconut oil on that, and this and that." Dan Sipple: There's going to be a time where that supply, that kind of constitution and life force will start to dry up, eventually, that's just inevitable. And that can be argued til the cows come home, but I see it, I see it, I see it. And I've felt it before too, where you lean more towards those plant based diets and then you feel what it's like when you return back to a diet where you're getting lots of different saturated fats and mono unsaturated fats from different types of sources, plant based and animal sources, and you feel that return, you feel that gene come back and that neuroplasticity and whatnot. Dan Sipple: But look, I just encourage people to not over do it either, there's a big ... I feel like there was the plant based movement but then even now with all the carnivore madness going on at the moment, there's a big kickback to people and ketogenic diet, just going crazy on fats and ending up with all these bile issues and digestive issues, which we've gone into in the past as well. So it's a sweet spot. It's like anything, you have to hit the sweet spot. So long as you're doing things like macadamia nuts, avocados, a bit of coconut oil, grass fed beef, if you can get it, venison and deer, especially the men, trust me the next day your body will thank you for it, you know what I'm talking about, when you first wake up in the morning. Dan Sipple: But yeah, did you have anything that you would like to add there mate, with your take on that? Mason: I agree, just get out of the labels, if you can challenge yourself, it's one thing because I did want to talk a little bit about the fact if throughout this conversation, if there is someone that is really feeling like they've broken out of the dogma of like a vegan or raw kind of style of things, but they're still walking that lifestyle, just make sure we're hitting little points to enable them to maintain as best as they can a healthy cascade. In that sense, the best you're going to be able to do is just continue to hit those plant based fats, especially making sure you're getting an array of macadamias, avos, coconuts, any others that come to mind there? Dan Sipple: I probably wouldn't do any more than that. I think in that scenario, you then want to look to your herbs because as long as you're getting the backbone there, which is cholesterol, it's the rest of the process that you have to worry about on a plant based diet, and that's where the herbs can really help influence, maca is fantastic, maca is one of my favourite herbs. Couldn't speak more highly of that for men and female. That's always going to help men and female detoxify those more toxic types of oestrogens. Any oestrogenic kind of reabsorption that you're going to get through the enterohepatic recirculation, which sounds really complicated, but it's just essentially oestrogen getting broken down on its way out for excretion, but then due to certain gut bacteria, getting recirculated and popped back into the system. And ultimately, that can keep you in an oestrogen dominant state. Mason: All right, let's quickly hit that for a second, because we're looking at, I talk a lot about liver support and liver supporting herbs ongoingly, being present for women to ensure that their endocrine system remains healthy. Somewhat the liver, somewhat this is an analogy, but being like a conductor in terms of this gets broken down, this gets recycled, that's out, this is going to be reused, nope we want to keep that in circulation, and also just keeping those phases of detoxification open and present, so that then you don't get that bleed over of toxins and to an extent, I think even to the extent like toxic hormones bleeding over into the sex organs. There's a lot to do, from what I understand with women sexual organ issues, but for men as well, really, really key core to ensure that you're not getting these bleed overs of especially oestrogen [inaudible] into the rest of your system. Dan Sipple: Well that's right, because even if you've got good detoxification, even if your liver and gall bladder and your bile is all doing a fantastic job at getting that stuff broken down and packaged up in a nice little package ready for excretion, but then it gets down the large colon and then it hits disbiosis and you've got certain overgrowth of species known to basically unpackage that oestrogen, break it all back down and then guess what, it gets reabsorbed through the gut wall, then suddenly, it's back into the blood stream and back into the liver. Mason: So we've got a couple of things. We've got like a huge amount of time, but just in terms of what you like seeing included in the diet, we've got a couple of things in helping that through the intestines, we're going to make sure that we don't have disbiosis occurring in that area, so men maintaining a thorough awareness of their gut health. And then on the liver health in just ensuring that those detox pathways through the liver as well as the bile flow is going. Some basic recommendations. Dan Sipple: Totally, so I've got things like Schizandra, we've got globe artichoke, we've got- Mason: We're looking at the liver right now? Dan Sipple: We're looking at the liver right now, from the top-down. Those things are going to be usually as well as helping the liver, helping you stimulate bile. Bile is so, so important there, that's like washing crap through your liver and getting it down into the bowel for excretion. Dan Sipple: To your point though, just to hit that off on the head, binders are the important thing to prevent that recirculation. So we're hitting the charcoal, we're hitting Chlorella, zeolite if you like, I'm not such a fan of zeolite, but those first two are my faves. Mason: Why aren't you so much of a fan of zeolite? Dan Sipple: Zeolite, from certain studies I have looked at, can potentially bind up good minerals as well, and for that reason, and I've seen that happen too. I've seen people do it for too long and end up really depleted across the board, in terms of their micronutrients and trace minerals. Dan Sipple: It does do a good job of getting rid of the crap, but it can take out some of the good too. So something like, I tell people, always do your binders right before you go to bed, away from food, away from supplements. Do it as the last thing. So, a tall glass of water with some charcoal or some Chlorella thrown in there, make sure they are good quality. Mason: What about the clay side of things? As I said I generally sit, not like one back from the intensity of zeolite, even charcoal, I can't really handle every day because it's just too dehydrating for me, and I kind of feel like it has that same approach. Whereas clay's seem a little bit more gentle. Dan Sipple: Clay is something I have had less experience with, so you're probably going to be a little bit more vast in its ability to do that. But it does definitely fall into that same category. I definitely consider that before I hit zeolite. Mason: Yeah, okay. Cool. And then maintaining that liver health is something I feel like those staples. MSM is something that I'm still absolute thorough fan of, is that something you're still comfortable with men having? Dan Sipple: I do like it. It is very sulfuric, so people on a high protein diet that are already getting too much sulfur, all that have certain snips or SNPs or genetic variations on certain enzymes that predispose them to accumulating sulfur, have to be careful with that one. That's why it's always good to test them and check that stuff out before you just go gnarly on detoxing and those sorts of things. Mason: Do a genetic testing? Dan Sipple: Genetic testing is good, yeah. Mm-hmm (affirmative). Good old 23 and me run it through a genetic converter, find out if you've got enzymes like the CBS enzyme, that's to do with the transsulfuration pathway. But look, generally speaking, I see it do good things, it's excellent for joint mobility, I know I'm preaching to the choir here anyway, but, yeah. Back to you. Mason: Keep the inflammation down as well. Dan Sipple: Totally. Mason: And then with these things, the reason I like having these conversations because we get into the nuances of particular herbs, nuances of particular mineral supplements like MSM, and if something doesn't have a nuance, and it's just like a broad statement and it doesn't actually have room to move and breathe with all the different constitutions and genetics and tensions we have. Then it's marketing, you're not looking at it deep enough. Mason: Okay, so great. Keep up the Schisandra, globe artichoke probably milk thistle falls in there as well, it's like a here and there kind of like ... Helping herbal aid. And then getting down into the digestive system, like binders is just something I'm going to ... You know binders and clays, are in the Shen Nong original Materia Medica, as one of the original tonic herbs. And so we have the reishi's and the eucommia's and the schizandra's and the shatavari's there, within these ... Over 2000 years ago and thousands of years of pouring in, humans, men and women, herbalist and shamans like looking into what's going to be the most life enhancing, life procuring tonics from minerals, animals and plants and mushrooms, that you're going to be able to include in our diet longterm, and there's four different clays in there, that fit into that tonic herbal system as a mineral herb. Mason: So, it's something that I don't see as a treatment of myself daily, I see it in that kind of, the way that you see indigenous humans, birds, primates, going and sorting out the clay deposits or finding like here in Australia, the those termite mounds that are high clay, and every now and then, just popping a little bit of that through your tract in order to bind, to not just toxins in the environment, but metabolic waste that occurs just in general. Dan Sipple: Which includes hormones, yeah, totally. Mason: Which includes hormones. All right, beautiful. Now- Dan Sipple: Can I just chime in there Mase. Mason: Yeah. Dan Sipple: You've brought up a good point. While we're talking about detoxing the liver, and inflammation and whatnot, oxidative stress, iron is such a big, big factor that I never look past when I'm treating males. Obviously men don't menstruate, so we don't have a natural means of losing iron. And a lot of men, particularly those with low testosterone will have elevated ferritin or even elevated serum iron. Dan Sipple: Now, there's a genetic condition called hemochromatosis, which some of the listeners might be familiar with. That affects males and females. So, if iron is really high, guys when you've done blood checks in the past and your doctors just gone, "Oh well, we don't really know what to do about that, it's all good. Just check it out in a year." Pay attention because iron, if it's high, it's going to spell a lot of issues when it comes to your hormones. It creates a lot of inflammation, a lot of oxidative stress and just like it does in the environment, it's going to rust out your body and your organs. Dan Sipple: So ferritin scores, this could be reference range, western diagnostic range between 30 and 300. You don't really as a male want to be over say 100, 120. The sweet spot I find tends to be around 90 or 100 for ferritin. That's a deep reservoir sources of stored iron. But look, iron, even iron rich foods funnily enough, in a lot of the androgenic foods, beef, chicken, eggs and that sort of thing, naturally are going to contain large amounts of iron. So if you fall into that category where iron toxicity is a thing for you and you work that out and you link that back to why you haven't been able to reach your androgenic potential, that's something that you'll need to individually curve and look at. And again that's going to come back to how well your liver is detoxifying, because of all that iron creating a lot of oxidative stress, you have to be hammering the antioxidants. That's your blueberries, your green tea's and all those liver herbs which Mason and I just rattled off, so your milk thistle, globe artichoke, schizandra berries, rosemary, so forth. Dan Sipple: I just want to throw that in there because the dance and the balance between those metals and micronutrients like zinc and iron, you have to get that dialed in, you have to make sure that your zinc isn't being lost to iron, because all those metals are going to compete. Copper, iron, zinc. And zinc, we'll do a little section on that soon, but that is, they call it the male mineral for that reason, it's the one that always is associated with proper formation of your androgens and getting that testosterone converted from progesterone. Dan Sipple: So in a nutshell, to cap off from that, check your iron out, it's always good to do a full serum iron panel, iron studies and look at your ferritin scores, if it's a problem for you, make sure you're not taking any iron supplements. Definitely get all iron out of your supplements- Mason: You probably shouldn't be taking iron supplements to begin with. Dan Sipple: That's right. They do tend to work their way into a lot of the multi-mineral formulas, unfortunately. But there are some companies like Thorn for example, that will do iron free multi-mineral formulas. Mason: Okay. You recommend, I know this is like you get down the route of blood letting, which we know maybe it's not happening as much. Or even just going and donating blood in order to alleviate that. I know it's always like a real easy way to, if you're prone to those high iron levels, getting in there and doing something like that, right? Dan Sipple: 100%, and you'll know it too, because there will be the sort of people that you'll do a consult with, and they'll be like, yeah I went and got my blood test and I don't know what it was, I don't know if it was just because I was fasting that morning, but man, I felt light that day and the next day. And you'll be like, okay. It's going to be interesting to see what your iron scores come back with, and sure enough, a lot of the times they're high. Mason: Okay, leading on from that, do you want to talk a little bit more on zinc while we're at it? Dan Sipple: I'd love to. So zinc and copper, zinc, the male mineral, copper the female mineral. Little bit sort of, it's not that straight forward but they do have that sort of reputation. We do see in today's society usually a lot of panels where zinc will come back low and copper will come back high. And copper dominance for females and males is an issue, because it definitely will cause a lot of hormonal disruption, brain fog, immune system problems. Any issue where zinc cannot accumulate and build up to a healthy decent level is going to affect immunity, constitution and hormones. Dan Sipple: So, zinc as a supplement is always a good idea I think for men, as soils these days are just as fact depleted in zinc. It is hard to get zinc. So a good sort of 30 milligram supplement, but it's also good to test as well. Test and check where you're at. But I just rarely see when we run a zinc panel a mans zinc is like prime and in good shape, it's always like, it could be better. Mason: It's always nice, you can, just that connection that it's like, took Tahnee out for dinner last night and of course started with a couple of Sydney rock oysters, like always good to keep the oysters in a high rotation if possible. Don't know where pumpkin seeds sit anymore in terms of actually affecting zinc levels, but- Dan Sipple: Yeah, I'm on the same kind of band wagon there. That really got pumped, so I remember when I was at uni, pepita seed, pumpkin seeds for zinc. Mason: It used to be on the pepita seed butter. Dan Sipple: Yeah, me too. Mason: And it's very delicious. But like I don't think there's any drawback, I don't see as many drawbacks. I definitely don't have as many seeds these days in my diet as I used to, but a little bit of that there. But then in terms of supplementation, I think we were talking yesterday, I got a little bit of citrate sitting up there, zinc citrate in that form, which is quite effective. But you like the- Dan Sipple: I like picolinate. Picolinate is, I won't talk too much to it because I'm not a chemist, but it's a form of zinc, which the body is going to be able to yield more from essentially. There are studies that actually conflict that too, however. So it's something where you do need to do a bit of personal trial. I do well on picolinate, I don't do well on citrate. Others, they do well on citrate. Dan Sipple: Generally avoid the over the counter versions though. I find like zinc gluconate, zinc oxide, some of the cheaper forms of zinc, just you'll probably absorb 10 to 20% of them. You're wasting your money really. But before you supplement, like you touched on Mason, definitely try and stack your diet if you're a man, in zinc rich foods. So we're talking oysters, deer venison, eggs, beef, funnily enough, zinc is found in a lot of the animal foods, it's just a fact. I find that even, and I can hear the plant based community in my head going, but there's zinc in this and there's zinc in that. Yeah, there is zinc in like pepita seeds for example, but there's also phytoestrogens in that same food. And there's also copper in that same food, which is going to make it hard for you to use that zinc. Dan Sipple: Whereas, something like good old grass fed beef, it's just bioavailable. Your body will just know what to do with it, and will suck it up. Mason: Or even better, like a venison, like wild non-vaccinated venison. Dan Sipple: Yes, exactly, yeah. And anything, as I think Sylvester Stallone said it in the 80s, "I'll eat anything that runs, walks, crawls, or flies". Mason: Okay. Deep. Dan Sipple: Yeah. Mason: Can you just, so I can get my head around a little bit of more of the importance of zinc. It's definitely something I haven't really, I'm not doing too may isolated supplements these days, but zinc and iodine was always one that I kind of like had hanging around at least. So can you just talk in terms of the pathway of where zinc is supporting that process of maintenance of health testosterone. Dan Sipple: Definitely. So like we touched on before, preventing testosterone from aromatising down to oestrogen. That's the main association there with zinc. If you have poor zinc levels, you can be pretty sure that that's going to be what's happening. Mason: Okay. Dan Sipple: That's essentially in a nutshell. But I find zinc isn't just testosterone fuel, it's all the other stuff too, like its bone health, its immune function, which is super important for much as male all around health and female too. But specifically the hormones, yeah, it's preventing that aromatisation. Mason: And the association between copper and oestrogen? Dan Sipple: Yeah, so copper is going to act like a shield for zinc to get on its receptor. So zinc and copper are always, excuse me. Trying to compete for the same receptors. It's a constant battle, and the ideal ratio, no matter what the scores are when you look at them on blood, as long as they're one to one, that's what you're aiming for. So I usually look at plasma zinc and serum copper. But most of the time, I'd say 90% of the time in males and females, we're seeing too much copper and not enough zinc. Dan Sipple: The way you remedy that is essentially just by pushing more zinc into the body to help push copper off the receptor sites, but you then have to get it out. So same thing applies what we were talking about before. You have to have good liver health, you have to be sweating, you have to be moving, and you have to be binding. Mason: And you've got to be pooing well with the binder. Dan Sipple: And pooing. Mason: So, that's kind of like a similar conversation, I guess there's always competition and ratios going on in the body. It's a similar thing with taking iodine to get those toxic halogens out of those receptors, right. Dan Sipple: It is, it is man. You have to look at selenium, you have to never just blindly take iodine and never look at selenium. You can see that become problematic and you can see, it can be flip side too. I have experienced that where I was on supplements that, and a diet that's naturally high in selenium and all of a sudden, I was creeping into selenium toxicity and my iodine was falling really short. Dan Sipple: So, it's always about that dance, you have to, don't just look at one mineral, you have to look at the full array. Mason: Okay. What's next down the chain? Dan Sipple: Let's have a look. We talked a little bit about soy-boys as they're sort of referred to. Mason: The precursor to the conversation guys, just in case you were like, hang on, I didn't hear the words soy-boy, I would have remembered that. Dan Sipple: Yeah, that's right. The precursor conversation. I mean, just highlighting that phytoestrogen sources can be anything really in the diet, that does have oestrogen mimicking or oestrogen like qualities, it can be problematic for men. So naturally when men do a plant based diet and they do it for too long, inadvertently, they're going to end up on, not all of them, but some, on foods that do have a high soy intake. Especially if they're not doing it properly and that, we don't need to go down it too detailed, but that's an obvious disrupter to testosterone. It's always going to be an issue there. Dan Sipple: And so that's where it pays to do, if you're an honest vegetarian or vegan and you want to do things properly, check out your hormones. Get the data, see what's going on and be honest with yourself and call it into check if things feel out of whack and if you're not feeling good. Because as I said earlier, your genetics are the same as they were all those thousands of years ago. Things have not changed genetically. Mason: That's the best thing, we can just all take our way of a charge. I think a lot of people are really emotional in the meat eating community, because they've had their own experiences of being vegan, vegetarian, and done something to themselves and then they feel like they've got to wave the banner. Otherwise, you've got people in the vegan community consistently only following vegan advocates and therefore justifying their diet and going further down that rabbit hole. But if you can take the charge away, get your panels done, don't do it in a sense that's defensive, don't do it trying to prove that one diet is right or wrong, no one is rocking it. Mason: There might be a few like indigenous communities that are really kind of making it really work still, but despite, yes we've got that, medical systems they're supporting us at the moment, but we're still everyone is experimenting at the moment in terms of what's going to be ideal in this post industrial world. For health, we're all trying to, we're picking and choosing and scraping things from different traditions and different countries and trying to make that work. So, in that sense, everyone can really get off their high horse- Dan Sipple: Yes, on both sides. Mason: Yeah, well from carnivore, to vegan. Veganism and everything in between. And if you can take away that charge and just get these panels and not be waving a flag for an agenda, or a justification of what you are doing currently. One of the best things I ever did when I was basically vegan, raw food, was reading Weston Price Natural Degeneration. I looked into the reality of why the China study was pretty horrible. Not horrible science, just horrible correlations that were results that they pulled out of that study. Mason: And just because I wanted to take away the charge of trying to justify myself and what I was doing, rather than actually having natural curiosity. Reading those books and reading about all the benefits of animal fats and all those kinds of things when I was vego, that was years before I made the transition. They weren't causative things that made me flip over, they just made me, they just kind of helped balance me out. It's nice to know other points of view, so you don't feel like you have to get defensive with your diet, because that's when you really dig yourself a hole, it's something, I don't exactly, I haven't got my head completely around the physiology of this particular susceptibility, but again, our acupuncturist talks a lot about the fact that when you have excessiveness in your lifestyle and in your diet, excessiveness is generally going to lead towards a deficiency of Jing at some point. Mason: And that is going to lead to a deficiency of your neurology and especially when you get to the point when you are deficient in blood, that is when you become susceptible to dogmatic ideas because it's so much harder for you to find your own center, your own Shen, your own mental consciousness, that you need to lean out and rely upon external systems. And because you can't establish the blood, which carries the Shen through your body, then you can't restore your Jing because you put on the blinders for your dogmatic diet or lifestyle factors or whatever it is, and you can't get out of it. And so, it's going to be a slow build out of that, and if you can work, even if you're in a nice balanced place now, consistently having little challenges for yourself to make sure that you are actually living dietarily supplement wise, belief system wise, based on something that is still relevant and innately coming from your center and your family center, rather than an idea that you feel like you've put your chips on and so you've got to make sure that you have all the data to justify. Mason: I think that's a huge part of it here, and I think that's all I have to say on that conversation because I really have a lot of friends who are vegan, I really respect the fact that they do that. And they're like, I'm going down this route, and there doesn't need to be any justification of it. But then they're doing the panels, right. They're taking the herbs and they're trying to ensure as much as possible that they're not degenerating their genetics. Dan Sipple: Totally, and that's the thing. I work with vegan's, carnivore's, paleo's, keto's, all of them, right. And I have respect for anyone that walks through the door no matter what they're doing, as long as they're being conscious about it, and which feeds into what you're saying. So getting your panels done, being conscious and honest with how you're feeling. If you're honest with your body and it's not working for you, it's okay, you tried it, you gave it a crack and you cleaned out your body, and you're going to revolve it from there. Don't get stuck into the dogma where, that's right, you've just got the blinders on and you can't hear anything. And that's on both sides of the equation too. Dan Sipple: If you've gone down that path and you are feeling signs of degeneration and you're skipping meals and you're eating chips and you're drinking beer, but you're plant based. It's like, come on, that's not cool. Mason: Or even not that, even if it's not like that kind of like faux health, even if there's no beers and chips and it's all that. There's always obvious signs of degeneration and you want to get to them before, not that it's about other people, but you want to get onto them before it becomes evident to everyone else. Dan Sipple: Totally. Mason: Because that's what happens a lot. Thanks for going down that little rabbit hole with me. We haven't got too much longer, so I want to hear a couple of other things. We've looked at cholesterol and how important it is, having a reasonable amount of and varied fats, plant and animal. Ensuring not to go excessive as to put taxation on our gull bladder and as well I think we've talked about too much fat is going to lead to an overgrowth of particular bacteria and off gassing, and that's why you see a lot of people who aren't designed for keto or just tend to stay there too excessively, are going to see this dibiosis in their gut. Runny poos and all those kinds of things. That general queasiness- Dan Sipple: Yeah, nausea, queasiness- Mason: Or it's that little queasiness when you have too much fats [crosstalk 00:59:22]. It's good to be on to that. Mason: Now tell me, we've gone down the nature of stress and ensuring that inflammation and stress isn't present, so that we can have that pregnenolone steal, which happens up above and inevitably goes down to forming more cortisol, right? So it's not even that directly cortisol being caused, it's the fact that we've got potentially these shenanigans going on in that hormonal cascade. Mason: I want to quickly talk about the formation of vitamin D3. It being a hormone in itself, it's one of the other things that always came up in terms of vitamin D3 levels being very low in people who don't have adequate cholesterol, and that's something that came out of that same conversation about 10 years ago for me, that I was talking about. So, can we quickly touch on the role that vitamin D3 is playing on all of this as well as our testosterone? Dan Sipple: Sure. So vitamin D3 isn't actually a vitamin, that's the first thing. It's a hormone. It's a steroid hormone with a cholesterol backbone. So straight away, we get out on the mindset of oh, it's just a vitamin and its good for you. It's like no, it's a hormone and you need it in big quantities. And if you want happy hormones and you want low inflammation, you'd better damn sure be looking at your vitamin D3, and that includes the active and non-active forms when you do blood panels. Dan Sipple: Typically, when you go to a doctor, they're just going to look at the non-active form, which is called 25-hydroxy vitamin D. Looking at the activated form is 1,25-dihydroxy vitamin D. And that's the one that the kidneys I believe converts from the sunlight and using sunlight and cholesterol hits your body, boom, goes into the organs, the liver and the kidneys and gets converted. And making sure that you've got a healthy, good level of both ultimately. That's kind of the long and the short of it. Dan Sipple: But, I'll say in addition to that, that hormone D, I don't call it a vitamin, I call it hormone D, is the ultimate antiinflammatory hormone in the body. So if you have high cortisol and low hormone D, guarantee you're in trouble. Guaranteed. Dan Sipple: Inflammation, we hear a lot about inflammation and it's kind of like people, yeah, yeah, yeah, I get inflammation. But it goes so, so deep in terms of what stimulates inflammation and just how catastrophic that can be to your hormonal cascade. So, inflammation can come from yes, diet, it can come because you're not sleeping, but an often overlooked area is infections. If you have stealth infections in your body, and your po

Brovember Begins

Play Episode Listen Later Nov 8, 2018 57:37

We forgot to upload last week.(Blame Graham) Here is double dose of TST!!!!

tst brovember

upNXT 11/01/18: It’s Brovember

upNXT: The Unofficial NXT Podcast

Play Episode Listen Later Nov 1, 2018 83:36

Braden Herrington & Davie Portman chat this week’s episode of WWE NXT featuring the debut of Matt Riddle, a huge backstage brawl involving Undisputed Era, War Raiders, Ricochet & Pete Dunne. Plus, 3 TAKEOVER WARGAMES match announcements… and more! The lads give thoughts on last weekend’s WWE Evolution show, chat about the MYC Finals, discuss WWE Crown Jewel, go in-depth about their Halloween party, a terrible story about their friend’s arm, loads of your feedback… and much much more! Listen to upNXT every Thursday: iTunes & iOS | Android | Google Play | Stitcher | TuneIn | Mac & PC | RSS Discuss this show at the POST Wrestling Forum https://forum.postwrestling.com Follow POST Wrestling Twitter | Facebook | Instagram | YouTube

halloween wwe nxt wwe crown jewel matt riddle undisputed era wwe evolution takeover war games war raiders brovember

EP 014 - Red Heat VS Dead Heat (1988)- BROvember IV "Like Sexy Brothers"

Play Episode Listen Later Nov 26, 2017 89:29

After eating themselves into a coma this Thanksgiving, Atom and Bobby discuss glam rock, broken beds and food (again). Right after that they discuss they discuss the political climate during the cold war and watch Walter Hill's 1988 "Red Heat" starring Arnold Schwarzenegger and Jim Belushi. But wait! its a double feature... listen to them wrap up BROvember with the buddy cop zomedy "Dead Heat". You're welcome.

thanksgiving brothers sexy arnold schwarzenegger atom walter hill jim belushi dead heat red heat brovember

EP 013 - Firewalker (1986) - BROvember Part III "A Very Cannon Birthday"

Play Episode Listen Later Nov 19, 2017 69:17

It's Bobby's birthday and it's BROvmeber! You know what that means - more talk of Latin food, clown face shenanigans and a viewing of one of many Indiana Jones rip-offs put out by Cannon Films - "Firewalker" starring Chuck Norris and Louis Gossett Jr. So strap in for a disappointing and offensive dune buggy ride on this weeks episode of "Not For Everyone".

latin indiana jones chuck norris cannon films louis gossett jr firewalker not for everyone brovember

EP 012 - Tango and Cash (1989)- "BROvember Part II: Baby Gatling Guns and Jack Russell Terriers"

Play Episode Listen Later Nov 14, 2017 56:31

Atom is back from a taco binge and talks about his hatred for modern 1st person shooters. Bobby listens intently. Right after that, they discuss the 1989 one-liner full pile of mediocrity - "Tango and Cash" starring Sylvester Stallone, Kurt Russell and every "hey it's that guy" actor you can think of from the 1980s. BONUS - Listen closely for the part where they confuse William Sanderson for Michael J Pollard.

babies guns sylvester stallone tango atom kurt russell gatling jack russell terriers bonus listen william sanderson brovember

EP 011 - To Live and Die in LA (1985)- "BROvember Part I: Goldie Hawn's Fake Husband"