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Bret and guest co-host Heather Lalley discuss the latest food and beverage trends and share an interview with Susan Bae, executive pastry chef of Moon Rabbit in Washington, D.C.With the National Restaurant Show in the rearview mirror, Bret Thorn, senior food & beverage editor of Nation's Restaurant News and Restaurant Hospitality, welcomed a guest co-host to the podcast, Heather Lalley, managing editor of sister publications Restaurant Business, Supermarket News, and CSP Daily News. With an expert in the retail space joining the show, Bret and Heather discussed the increasing presence of drinks made with cannabis in that channel. There was also an entire section at the Restaurant Show dedicated to those drinks, with both hosts visited with enthusiasm, and Heather also sat in on a presentation on the potentially thorny legal issues around cannabis, regulations of which vary from state to state.They also discussed some of the plant-based options at the show, which are of particular importance to Heather, who's a pescatarian. Often the meatless options she's presented with at meals, though tasty, tend to lack protein, being made with ingredients such as cauliflower and mushrooms. Then Bret shared an interview with Susan Bae, the executive pastry chef of Moon Rabbit, a Vietnamese-inspired restaurant in Washington, D.C.

The annual National Restaurant Association Show in Chicago concluded Tuesday, and both editors spent the last four days walking the Show floor, sampling food and drinks from the thousands of exhibitors, recording podcasts and video interviews and attending events.Bret Thorn, senior food & beverage editor of Nation's Restaurant News and Restaurant Hospitality, was on stage at the 2025 MenuMasters awards Saturday, handing out awards to this year's eight restaurant and chef recipients at a gala celebration held at Morgan Manufacturing. Michelin-starred chefs Dominque Crenn and Curtis Duffy were both honored, the former inducted into the MenuMasters Hall of Fame and the latter recognized as MenuMasters 2025 Innovator. Culinary directors from chains including Wendy's, Chili's, True Food Kitchen, Fuzzy's Taco Shop and Iron Hill Brewery & Restaurant also received awards for menu innovation. And restaurateur and social media expert Alexandra Lourdes won for Digital Innovation.Pat Cobe, senior menu editor of Restaurant Business, also attended the event and was impressed how all the awardees acknowledged the importance of team collaboration to menu innovation. She also enjoyed a number of bites and sips on the Show floor. Standouts included the avocado toast bar at Avocados from Mexico, an everything bagel-seasoned brie from the California cheese booth and a pistachio latte made with pistachio milk at the Campbell's booth. Speaking of non-dairy milk, Pat tried fermented oat milk that is processed into 2-D printed sheets that simply have to be rehydrated. It's a high-tech, sustainable solution by  Milkadamia, a plant-based milk company.Bret and Pat were judges for the National Restaurant Show's Food and Beverage Innovation awards and had the pleasure of honoring the recipients on Monday, as they all came up to the Beverage Room stage for recognition and photo ops.This week's operator interview is with Kyle Knall, chef-owner of Birch in Milwaukee, Wisconsin. Before moving to Milwaukee to be closer to family, Knall earned his culinary chops under celebrated chef Frank Stitt in Birmingham, Alabama, and at Gramercy Tavern in New York. Birch's casual vibe and inspired, locally sourced menu have turned it into a popular dining destination. Another restaurant is in the works in Milwaukee's Third Ward historic district. Listen to Knall's culinary journey, mission and plans for the future.

Ube, the photogenic purple sweet potato from the Philippines, has been trending gradually in the United States. It got a boost recently when it made it onto the menu of the three Starbucks Reserve Roastery locations in Chicago, New York, and Seattle where it's added to a coconut cold foam and spooned over an Espresso Martini.Pat Cobe, senior menu editor of Restaurant Business, and Bret Thorn, senior food & beverage editor of Nation's Restaurant News and Restaurant Hospitality, discussed the ube phenomenon, which also came up in Pat's conversation with the operators of Tous Les Jours, a Korean-based pastry concept that's growing quickly in the United States. Pat said they see ube and another trending Asian ingredient, matcha, as points of distinction for the brand.Speaking of trends and Korean food, Bret went to a preview of a collab between fast-casual salad chain Sweetgreen and fine-dining Korean steakhouse Cote. Sweetgreen has collaborated with fine-dining chefs in the past, including Dan Barber of Blue Hill and Nancy Silverton of Mozza, and this new one features Korean sauces and marinades that are used in three limited-time offers: Two salads and a more substantial plate.The LTOs expand on Sweetgreen's introduction of steak last year—another trend in fast-casual restaurants. While chicken, always popular, is gaining even further traction at limited-service restaurants, Pat and Bret discussed how steak really shines as LTOs, including these new ones at Sweetgreen and the Steak Stroganoff at Noodles & Company, which was discussed during that chain's recent earnings call as a reason for the fast casual's relative success during the first quarter. Bret also sampled the returning Campfire menu at Cracker Barrel. It's become a harbinger of summer for the chain, which this year added a shrimp skillet with andouille sausage to the lineup. Bret also shared an interview with Indian chef Rasika Venkatesa, the former chef de cuisine of Mourad in San Francisco, who is now in New York City operating a series of pop-ups called Mythili, named for her grandmother. Venkatesa discussed her approach to cooking Indian food, and shared how she collected recipes from villagers from throughout the state of Tamil Nadu.

Cinco de Mayo is now in the rearview mirror, and restaurant chains are focusing on new tie-ins. Bret Thorn, senior food & beverage editor of Nation's Restaurant News and Restaurant Hospitality, noted the launch of Sonic's Unicorn Dreams Slush, a bubbly, bright pink drink that comes with a choice of four color-changing straws. It's perfectly positioned for Instagram, as many new menu items are lately.Pat Cobe, senior menu editor of Restaurant Business, commented that beverages continue to be a hotbed of menu innovation.  Pizza also saw some action this week, with both Mellow Mushroom and &pizza debuting taco-inspired pies. Bret also pointed out the return of chicken and waffles to KFC and barbecue sandwiches at Shake Shack. At the latter, there's a chicken sandwich and burger, each with a choice of either the Shake Shack's signature barbecue sauce or a new Carolina-style flavor profile. Along with a new campfire s'mores shake and lemonade drinks, this is a menu that's anticipating summer. Then we shared an interview with Mark Boyton, VP of global food & beverage for Puttshack, a mini-golf eatertainment concept with 16 locations. Boyton is an experienced restaurant chef and is intent on elevating Puttshack's food, cocktails, beer and wine. Instead of the usual nachos and wings, the menu features globally inspired small plates and local flavors. Listen as he shares the tasty details.

Lots of LTOs and permanent menu items launched recently, as innovation accelerates. Bret Thorn, senior food & beverage editor of Nation's Restaurant News and Restaurant Hospitality, started with the big news: Crispy Chicken Strips are now on McDonald's permanent menu—the mega-chain's first new menu item since 2022. Arby's continues its LTO collaborations with celebs, this time partnering with Cedric The Entertainer and Anthony Anderson, slathering the comedians' line of barbecue sauces on a brisket and pulled pork sandwich. And Cava introduced a spicy variation on its fan-favorite pita chips—Hot Harissa.Pat had a first taste of a couple of sweets from soon-to-open Cinnabon Swirl, a dual-branded Cinnabon-Carvel concept from GoTo Foods. The highlight is a Bonini, an ice cream sandwich made with two cinnamon roll slices with a disc of Carvel vanilla in the middle. It's placed in a panini press for 15 seconds and comes out all gooey—in a good way.Bret attended a 4/20 party at Red Lobster, learning that the chain's Cheddar Biscuits are a popular munchie for stoners. Instead of passing out joints, Red Lobster served cocktails featuring Snoop Dogg and Dr. Dre's gin mixed with orange juice, pineapple juice and guava juice with a garnish of Skittles on the side of the glass. There's a recurring candy theme here.Our guest this week is Jay Kumar, chef-owner of Lore in Brooklyn, N.Y. He specializes in the cuisine of the Malabar coast with masala dosas a signature, but the restaurant has a diverse and interesting menu. Give a listen.

Pat Cobe, senior menu editor at Restaurant Business, and Bret Thorn, senior food & beverage editor for Nation's Restaurant News and Restaurant Hospitality, together moderated a menu innovation panel at the Restaurant Leadership Conference last Monday in Phoenix. Participants included operators from Popeyes, Noodle's & Company, Potbelly, Applebee's and Velvet Taco, and we heard a lot about what's in the works and what's to come.At RLC, we also heard from Kevin Hochman, CEO of Chili's and our Restaurant Leader of the Year. He chatted about a lot of things on stage, including the Big QP Burger, Chili's quarter-pound burger that launched that day. It's a clear swipe at McDonald's, and as a special introductory deal, it comes with fries and a soft drink for $10.99.Then we shared an interview with Bob Johnston, CEO of The Melting Pot, which is celebrating its 50th anniversary this year. When the restaurant chain started, there were only three fondues on the menu: beef, cheese and chocolate. Johnston, who began as a dishwasher at The Melting Pot, talked about how the menu has since expanded, with on-trend items like seafood and veggie fondues, a brie and fig variation, and steak fondue with mango-habanero sauce. There is also a full bar with craft cocktails and a varied wine selection, a far cry from Michelob—the only beer option back in the ‘70s. Listen as we hear how The Melting Pot has evolved but is still offering an interactive dining experience, which is exactly what many guests want these days when they visit a restaurant. 

Hosts Pat Cobe, senior menu editor of Restaurant Business, and Bret Thorn, senior food & beverage editor of Nation's Restaurant News and Restaurant Hospitality, had a busy week going to chain restaurants' promotional events in New York City.Pat had high tea featuring Portillo's menu items, and Bret went to a preview of the first United States location of Chinese chain Pull-Tab Coffee, whose signature menu item is a sort of reversed iced cappuccino: Coffee foam on top of milk on the rocks. He also went to Bar Tender, a two-day pop-up in Brooklyn created by Wingstop, featuring the chain's upgraded, crunchier chicken tenders in 12 different flavors (he didn't try them all, but he did his best).They also discussed the big chain news of Wendy's new Frosty options. They can now be blended with syrups, and starting in May there will be mix-ins available — like Dairy Queen Blizzards.Also big news: McDonald's has upgraded its lemonade, doing away with Minute Maid (although its orange juice is still in stock), and replacing it with a beverage of lemon juice, lemon pulp and sugar. Then Bret shared an interview with Juan and Gee Smalls, the owners of three-unit Virgil's Gullah Kitchen & Bar in Atlanta, featuring the food of the Gullah and Geechee people of the coastal areas from North Carolina to Georgia. They're first-time restaurateurs, motivated by what they saw as a need for venues owned and operated by Black gay people. The couple discuss their learning process and plans for the future.

Pickles are moving from sidekick to main event on restaurant menus, as the Menu Talk co-hosts witnessed recently. Bret Thorn, senior food & beverage editor of Nation's Restaurant News and Restaurant Hospitality, attended Popeyes' pickle reveal at the chain's flagship Times Square location in New York City. The restaurant was decked out in green from top to bottom, and Bret got to taste Popeyes new pickle menu, which included fried pickles, a tart pickle glazed chicken sandwich and pickle lemonade. Although not on the menu, servers also handed out Pickle Margaritas infused with pickle juice, and pickles with smoked salmon, caviar and crème fraiche, courtesy of NYC deli landmark, Zabar's.When Pat Cobe, senior editor of Restaurant Business, interviewed Popeyes chef Amy Alarcon following the event, she mentioned the hydrating properties of pickle juice, which is mixed into Popeyes' signature cane sugar-sweetened lemonade. Coffee chain Dutch Bros also introduced a pickle juice energy drink this month, the Pickleback Rebel. Moving on to non-pickle items, Pat talked about the inspiration behind Jack in the Box's culturally connected milkshakes. The latest is the Pink Pineapple Express that ties into 4/20, the unofficial “holiday” celebrating cannabis. Bret mentioned that Ike's Love and Sandwiches and Jimmy John's are both offering special munchies for 4/20 as well. Other food news of the week focused on the never-ending parade of ranch dressing variations and Subway's latest footlong snack—Doritos Footlong Nachos. Bill Nevruz of Shaw's Crab House | Photo courtesy of Lettuce Entertain You EnterprisesThen the two shared an interview with Bill Nevruz, an executive partner in Lettuce Entertain You Enterprises and the divisional president of Shaw's Crab House in Chicago. Shaw's is celebrating its 40th anniversary this month, and Nevruz described the festivities around that milestone, including a throwback menu that features items like sauteed frogs' legs, clams casino and crab-stuffed shrimp. Of course, signatures including oysters, sushi and king crab legs will also be on hand, along with two anniversary cocktails—an Old Fashioned and a Martini—both garnished with oysters and caviar. Listen as Nevruz relates Shaw's story and how the restaurant has earned its reputation as a premier seafood destination far from both coasts.

Beverage concepts are proliferating across the country, and for good reason. As Pat Cobe, senior menu editor of Restaurant Business, reported recently and discussed on this week's podcast, Gen Z has become a generation of afternoon treat-buyers and they enjoy rewarding themselves with something colorful and refreshing that they can exhibit proudly on social media. Hence the proliferation of beverage concepts such as HTeaO, Sip Fresh, and Krak Boba, among many others. In fact, she and Nation's Restaurant News senior food & beverage editor Bret Thorn noted that big chains have gotten in on the act, launching their own beverage-focused concepts such as Taco Bell's Live Más Café and McDonald's CosMc's.In food news, the co-hosts groused a bit about the relentless spread of hot honey (Subway jumped on the bandwagon last week) and suggested alternatives, such as sweet Thai chile sauce, or maybe brown sugar with habanero. Maybe hot honey is becoming table stakes at restaurants, but it's not going to get anyone's attention anymore. Other chains are flexing their creative muscles, however, such as Pokeworks, which just came out with a line of “Hot Plates” that resemble a Hawaiian midday staple called the plate lunch, made with some kind of center-of-the-plate protein accompanied by two scoops of rice and macaroni salad. Pat and Bret observed that Hawaiian food is becoming more prevalent on the mainland and is worth looking into. Fogo de Chão is making sure that its customers can spend as much money as they like when they visit with the introduction of an Indulgent Churrasco menu, about $20 more than the concept's all-you-can-eat Churrasco Experience and featuring luxury items such as lobster and bone marrow. Then Bret shared an interview with Jesús Méndez, a restaurateur and bar owner in Birmingham, Alabama, who recently opened Salud Taqueria, bringing Mexican street food to the center of the city. 

Spring brings a lot of menu activity, and the most recent launches show a focus on upgraded ingredients and formats. Menu Talk hosts Bret Thorn, senior food & beverage editor of Nation's Restaurant News and Restaurant Hospitality, and Pat Cobe, senior menu editor of Restaurant Business, noted Maggiano's updates, which include Wagyu meatballs and Chicken Parmesan topped with freshly grated cheese.  Bret also cited Tender Greens' menu upgrades, which include the artisan Laura Chenel goat cheese as an ingredient, along with heirloom cherry tomatoes and Great Northern beans. The pair also observed more fresh vegetables on menus, with carrots—an everyday veggie—getting treated to some fancy preparations at restaurants. Another trend that's gaining steam is happening at Italian concepts. Your Pie is doing pizza shop sandwiches, filling their proprietary pizza dough with various ingredients and baking them into portable, handheld items. All have sauces based on ranch, America's favorite sauce flavor, it seems.The duo also shared an interview with Scott Davis, chief concept officer for Noodles & Company, the fast casual that just experienced a major menu upgrade two years in the making. Davis talks about how he and his culinary team responded to customers' cravings for more generous portions of sauce, more mac ‘n cheese variations, more protein and more bold, global flavors. All of those show up in the new menu additions. Give a listen.

Menu Talk hosts Pat Cobe, senior menu editor of Restaurant Business, and Bret Thorn, senior food & beverage editor of Nation's Restaurant News and Restaurant Hospitality, agree that restaurants are pushing out spring flavors earlier than ever.It's also the season for menu makeovers at several restaurant chains. After identifying “team mom” as a core customer, Walk-Ons Sports Bistreaux introduced a number of new, female-friendly dishes, less sugary cocktails and higher-end wines. And Noodles & Company launched nine new menu items—an overhaul two years in the making—which you'll hear more about next week.But this week, we are spotlighting Matt King, president and COO of Legal Sea Foods, as our guest. He chats about the recent menu makeover at the Boston-based casual-dining chain. While the restaurants' signatures will never be taken off the menu—we're talking about the best-selling lobster roll and fish and chips—King shares Legal Sea Foods' journey toward customization. Guests can now create their own flavor profiles, choosing the protein they prefer, along with a sauce or rub, cooking technique and sides. For the indecisive, there are also plenty of chef-curated dishes featuring seasonal, sustainable seafood. Listen as King, the brand's former head chef, describes Legal Sea Food's new culinary direction and what's next. 

Lent is upon us, and that means seafood specials at restaurants across the country, both for Catholics who refrain from eating meat on Fridays during the six-week period, and for those for whom it has become a seasonal lifestyle for other reasons.Pat Cobe, senior menu editor of Restaurant Business, noticed some relatively unusual fish, such as Alaska cod and flounder, rather than the more typical pollock gracing menus, particularly at quick-service restaurants. Bret Thorn, senior food & beverage editor of Nation's Restaurant News and Restaurant Hospitality, pointed out that the rather debauched holiday of St. Patrick's Day always falls during Lent, which is intended to be a time of abstinence. The contrast means that green menu items and corned beef share menu space with seafood at this time of year.Bret noted that there are other, smaller, less formal holidays at this time of year, too. Mar. 10 is Mario Day, important to a certain subset of young video gamers. It's followed by Pi Day on Mar. 14, celebrating the universal constant that starts with 3.14. Restaurants reinterpret it as Pie Day, and offer a variety of specials around pizza and dessert. Pat observed that BJ's is offering specials in its skillet cookies, called Pizookies. Mar. 16 is Steve Austin Day, which holds some importance for professional wrestling fans. This year it's also part of St. Practice Day, which some people celebrate on the weekend before St. Patrick's Day (which is on a Monday this year), ostensibly to build up their alcohol tolerance for the annual celebration of Irish culture. Then there's April Fool's Day on April 1, International Cannabis Day on April 20, Earth Day on April 22, and Star Wars day on May the 4th. Pat pointed out that March 9 was National Meatball Day, and Bret expressed his disdain for that and other food holidays, but he acknowledged that they can be a great and relatively easy way to bring in more customers. In other F&B trends, Pat observed the rollout of several new sandwiches this week, including Potbelly's Barnyard, and Bret noted new sauces from Buffalo Wild Wings and Hardee's. Of particular interest, he said, was the fact that Hardee's called out Duke's mayonnaise specifically as an ingredient in its new Carolina Gold BBQ Sauce, and Bojangles also mentioned that it is serving its annual Lenten fish special, the Bojangler, made with Duke's tartar sauce. The guest on this week's podcast is Einat Admony, the chef and owner of Balaboosta restaurant in New York City and the recently opened Moondog, a listening bar that serves Admony's version of Mexican food, among other things. The Israeli chef and restaurateur shared insights into how Middle Eastern and Mexican cuisines are related, and also discussed the unique nature of Israeli cuisine.

Pat Cobe, senior menu editor of Restaurant Business, and Bret Thorn, senior food & beverage editor of Nation's Restaurant News and Restaurant Hospitality, were both invited to a preview of Starbucks' spring menu. At the tasting, which took place at the Starbucks Reserve location in NYC's Empire State Building, they sampled a collection of colorful beverages, including a purple Iced Ube Coconut Latte, pink Iced Cherry Chai and several lavender drinks returning from last spring. Pat especially liked the cherry chai with its topping of cherry cream foam and crunchy red and pink sugar flakes, while Bret was impressed with the combination of ube, coffee and coconut and voted that as his favorite.The editors were also impressed with the new food additions—a warm, savory Jalapeño Chicken Pocket and a sweet pistachio-filled pastry. Both made nice accompaniments to Starbucks' newest blonde roast coffee, Sunsera Blend. It tasted pretty complex for a light roast.The two then shared an interview with Sayat and Laura Ozyilmaz, husband-and-wife chef-owners of Dalida in San Francisco. Dalida serves “borderless” Mediterranean food, mixing and matching flavors and dishes from the Turkey, Lebanon, Armenia, Cypress and other countries in the region. Sayat is from that area but Laura is Mexican, and some of her culinary influences come into play on the menu, too.Listen as they describe how the restaurant's location in Presidio Park and California-sourced ingredients also impact their menu, and how they foster sustainability and community at Dalida.

Pat Cobe, senior menu editor of Restaurant Business, recently attended a milestone event for the town of Seguin, Texas: the debut of the first Applebee's-IHOP cobranded restaurant. With around 110 items, the menu is about as large of those of Applebee's and IHOP individually, featuring their greatest hits alongside collaborative mashups, like a Buffalo Chicken Omelet that Pat particularly enjoyed. Bret Thorn, senior food & beverage editor of Nation's Restaurant News and Restaurant Hospitality, remarked that, although Buffalo chicken is everywhere, and spicy breakfasts are now quite commonplace, this is the first Buffalo breakfast item he has seen.He and Pat also discussed menu items that debuted at other chains, including caviar service that is now available at Sullivan Steakhouse and sister brand Eddie Merlot's. At $110 it's a premium offering to say the least, but the co-hosts observed that if there weren't demand for it they wouldn't have added it to their menus.There were also some interesting new collaborations this week, most notably Taco Bell introducing Birthday Cake Churros developed in concert with the New York City-based pastry shop Milk Bar. A couple of doughnut chains also introduced collabs of different sorts. Duck Donuts rolled out Sonic the Hedgehog-themed treats in celebration of the debut of Sonic the Hedgehog 3 on streaming service Paramount+. Meanwhile, Krispy Kreme rolled out more broadly movie-themed items, such as a Caramel Popcorn doughnut and a Blue Raspberry Slush doughnut in partnership with Hulu, apparently encouraging people to snack on the movie theater concession-inspired treats while watching their favorite shows at home. Bret also interviewed Sarah Thompson, executive chef of Casa Playa, a coastal Mexican restaurant at the Wynn Las Vegas, who discussed her approach to procuring top-notch ingredients and elevated cuisine while also appealing to the many guests who just want tacos and queso fundido without a lot of fuss. 

Danny Meyer's Union Square Hospitality Group (USHG) just reopened the "The View" restaurant atop the Marriott Marquis Hotel in NYC's Times Square. Bret had a chance to attend the opening reception, and he remarked that while revolving rooftop restaurants are not generally known for their great food and cocktails, clearly Danny Meyer and his team are not following that route. Limited-time offers are designed to boost traffic and sales, and lately, convenience stores have been competing with restaurants to lure customers with their own LTOs. Pat talks about a couple released this month, including RaceTrac's Taco Pizza and tasty new chicken nuggets from Krispy Krunchy Chicken, a brand popular in convenience stores as well as freestanding units.Pat and Bret also dissected the dirty soda trend, in which branded soft drinks are mixed with cream or coconut milk and often candies and cookie pieces. They agree that the trend is still in its early stages, as most consumers really aren't that familiar with dirty sodas.Then the hosts shared an interview with Eric Huang, chef-owner of Pecking House, a fried chicken concept that he started during the pandemic as a delivery-only brand.  Huang has since grown Pecking House into two brick-and-mortar restaurants, the original in Brooklyn and a smaller outpost in New York City's Chinatown. Both frequently have lines out the door.Huang talks about how he blends Asian and American flavor profiles to set his menu apart and how his fine-dining training has taught him valuable management skills. And as Lunar New Year celebrations draw to a close, Huang shares some of his family's culinary traditions, including sticky rice dumplings made from a cherished recipe. Give a listen. 

Valentine's Day is approaching quickly, and another major American midwinter celebration, the Super Bowl, is just past. Chain restaurants gear up for both of them, each in their own way. Pizza concepts have long offered heart-shaped pies for Valentine's Day, but doughnut chains are following that lead and offering their core products in heart shapes too. Pat and Bret discussed how wings are the most popular appetizer ordered with pizza, making them perhaps the most common combination in American foodservice. They also discussed how invented holidays such as National Pizza Day are, in fact, great sales drivers, giving people a reason, no matter how small, to order something they love. For the podcast's interview this week, Bret interviewed Donnie Madia, co-owner of One-Off Hospitality in Chicago. He discussed the restaurant group's new catering arm, how his restaurants that were featured in the hit FX TV series "The Bear" benefitted from the exposure and his philosophy about the future of fine dining.

Valentine's Day is fast approaching and many restaurants are offering the usual romantic dinners for two. But this year, even coffee cafes and smoothie bowl concepts are spreading the love with specials themed to the holiday. Pat and Bret chat about the trend, and how restaurants are not just targeting couples anymore. An OpenTable survey found that groups and singles are increasingly dining out on or before Valentine's Day. So candy-topped milkshakes, strawberry lattes and heart-shaped doughnuts make perfect sense.  Valentine's Day and Super Bowl vie for attention every February, with heart-shaped pizzas and chicken wings competing on menus. Speaking of wings, Bret came across a couple of new sauces recently. El Pollo Loco introduced its first new flavor in almost a decade—mango habanero. The sauce taps into the sweet-heat trend that we've been seeing a lot of lately. And WNBA star Angel Reese partnered with McDonald's on a new smoky barbecue sauce. It's flavoring a quarter-pounder rather than chicken, and this is the first time the burger giant is collaborating with a female athlete.  Our guest this week is Chris Smith, CEO of Zunzi's and Zunzibar based in Savannah, Georgia. Zunzi's started as a hole-in-the-wall sandwich shop and now has multiple locations in Georgia and South Carolina and is expanding to Florida. Zunzibar has a topnotch mixology program but manages to project a relaxed, tropical vibe—a formula that has proven to be a winning combination.  Listen as Smith talks about how he's built a team culture that's as unique as these two concepts. 

The Super Bowl is approaching fast as the Kansas City Chiefs will face the Philadelphia Eagles in New Orleans on Feb. 9, and in the restaurant world the Big Game means big orders of chicken wings. Promotions for wings aren't rolling in quite the way they have in recent years, but Pat pointed to a couple of them, including new wing sauces such as Popeyes' Louisiana Garlic, and the Sweet Chili Glaze from Wingstop that Pat and Bret discussed last week. Also, Cousins Subs has a new giant sub that's certainly suitable for Super Bowl parties. Bret, meanwhile, is freshly returned from Rimini, Italy, where he attended SIGEP World, a large annual foodservice expo. It was very Italian, with huge varieties of gelato, coffee, and pizza.  Bret noticed vegan options in gelato, including a peanut butter one, which seemed like a no-brainer since peanut butter is already delicious and naturally vegan. He also saw a lot of pinsa, the flatbread cousin of pizza from Rome. In terms of coffee, he was taken with some single-origin espresso beans from Ivory coast, and beans that had been co-fermented with peaches.  This week's interview is with Tyler Haake, the executive chef of the Atlanta location of Indigo Road Hospitality's Italian concept, Indaco. The chef shares strategies for making seasonal pizza, working with local producers and creating a positive work environment that encourages everyone to excel without succumbing to excessive stress. Give a listen.

Pizza toppings are going way beyond the usual these days. Pat and Bret discussed that trend, leading off with all the appetizer-inspired pizzas we've seen lately. Jalapeño poppers, a nostalgic bar food, are back as pizza toppers at &pizza and Your Pie, plus Your Pie has another LTO pizza topped with spinach-artichoke dip.  Bret came across Chicken Tikka Pizzas at several Indian concepts in California during a recent trip. And this week, Via 313, a Detroit-style pizza chain, introduced tikka masala pizza, which has masala curry sauce, marinated chicken, cheese, onions and peppers. Aside from pizza, beef, especially steak, is showing up in limited-time offers—and it usually performs very well. Noodles & Company brought back its Steak Stroganoff, a comforting dish with marinated steak in a mushroom sherry cream sauce served over egg noodles. It's been the fast casual's top selling LTO, and winter is a logical time to bring it back. Dig also introduced steak recently, a char-grilled sirloin featured in dinner plates and bowls. To wrap up, we shared an interview with Chris Morgan, who along with his partners Reza Farahani and Iranian cookbook author Najmieh Batmanglij, operate Persian restaurant Joon in the Washington, D.C. metro area. Chef Morgan talks about how many popular Middle Eastern dishes trace their origins to Iran, and Joon's menu includes specialties from other cuisines, including Levantine. The menu also reflects his experience working in California restaurants and is inspired by the ingredients Joon sources from an organic farm in Maryland. Give a listen.

This new year, there has been a lot of buzz about how short-lived most people's commitment to their resolutions are.  Pat and Bret discussed that trend, and the fact that restaurants don't pile on the better-for-you limited-time offers in early January the way they used to. Instead, they start rolling out later in the month, possibly in anticipation of slimming-down efforts that are renewed in the spring. They rounded out the podcast with an interview Bret conducted with Yara Herrera, chef and partner at Hellbender in the Queens, New York, neighborhood of Ridgewood, who discussed the changing role of women chefs, her sourcing strategy and some of her favorite dishes. Give a listen.

Welcome to a new year of Menu Talk. On this week's podcast, Bret Thorn, senior food & beverage editor of Nation's Restaurant News and Restaurant Hospitality, and Pat Cobe, senior menu editor at Restaurant Business, talk trends. New Year's Day marks the start of Dry January, which seems to be motivation for people to moderate alcohol consumption for a while, even if they fall off the wagon before the month is out. Pat has tried it and stuck with it twice, but this year, she's going with “Damp” January instead, cutting back without completely abstaining.  However Dry January shakes out, the hosts are in agreement that the quantity and quality of mocktails at restaurants and bars is much improved. Bret recently wrote about how the complexity and craftsmanship of spirit-free options offers non-drinking guests an experience that's not at all diminished. In fact, spirit-free pairings or smaller pours with a tasting menu can actually enhance rather than dull the experience. Aside from the spirit-free trend, which Pat and Bret see continuing, we chatted about the abundance of food and drink predictions that have landed in our inboxes. Will the sweet-heat or “swicy” flavor trend move into 2025, and what will be the “it” cuisine this year? And what's with all the brown sugar and espresso on the beverage side? Plus, what happened to all the healthy menu items that usually launch in January?  Tune in to find out the latest, plus Pat shares an interview with Nathan Louer, chief brand officer at Jamba. He discusses how Jamba has evolved from a juice and smoothie concept to a destination for meal replacements and snacks that balance health and indulgence. Louer and his team are focusing innovation on the core menu, introducing new categories including bowls, blended coffees and bites. Give a listen.

On this week's podcast, Pat Cobe, senior menu editor of Restaurant Business, and Bret Thorn, senior food & beverage editor of Nation's Restaurant News and Restaurant Hospitality, discuss recent tasting adventures. Bret traveled to Los Angeles on vacation, where he began exploring restaurants in the West Hollywood neighborhood where he was staying almost as soon as the plane landed. He tried two happy hours, one at Madre, where he had a memorable fruity and spicy margarita and chicken enchilada with mole, and another at Laurel Hardware, where he ate glazed pork ribs while sipping a couple of beers. The next day, Bret met up with a restaurant consultant friend who led him to several of his favorites, starting in Beverly Hills at a small plates restaurant called Bacari, where each dish was better than the next and most were a reasonable $15. The culinary tour continued to an old-timey place called The Hideaway, followed by loaded breakfast burritos at Cofax Coffee, and several hotspots in the Silver Lake-Eagle Rock area of the city. Before heading to Las Vegas for the second leg of his trip, Bret had tasted L.A.'s wide array of global cuisines, including Armenian, Japanese and regional Mexican. Meanwhile, Pat got a preview of Taco Bell's new chicken nuggets, which roll out nationwide on Dec. 19. The nuggets are coated with a mix of breadcrumbs and tortilla chips to make them extra-crunchy, and they lived up to the crunch. Since nuggets demand a dipping sauce, Taco Bell introduced three new ones: Hidden Valley Fire Ranch Sauce, Jalapeno Honey Mustard and creamy Bell Sauce. The steak boards at Rare Society offer a sampling of several cuts and sauces. | Photo courtesy of Trust Restaurant Group. Then Pat shared clips from an interview with Brad Wise, chef-partner in San Diego-based Trust Restaurant Group and operator of six Rare Society steakhouses—among other concepts. Chef Wise introduced the Santa Maria style of wood-fired cooking at Rare Society, using oak sourced from Central California. He also has a unique way of presenting Wagyu and dry-aged steak on wooden boards and lazy Susans so guests can sample many different cuts. Listen as Chef Wise talks about how he developed Rare Society as the antithesis of traditional steakhouses and describes his other concepts within Trust, including a zero-waste ice cream shop is primed for expansion.

On this week's podcast, Bret Thorn, senior food & beverage editor of Nation's Restaurant News and Restaurant Hospitality, said that the holiday season is actually a quiet time for him, with fewer media events as restaurants are busy serving paying customers, so the only party he went to this week was the holiday party of his own company, Informa, where he drank martinis and ate some interesting spring rolls — one topped with trendy chili crisp and another with Southeast Asian aromatics like makrut lime leaf.  Pat Cobe, senior menu editor of Restaurant Business, was at the party too, and noticed how many Espresso Martinis were being ordered. She also found other events to go to, including one at Meduza Mediterrania in NYC's Meatpacking District, which was, in fact, Yelp's top restaurant for 2024, based on reviews. It was very trend-forward with Eastern Mediterranean dips, seafood towers and passed lamb chops. She also checked out a new restaurant at Grand Central Terminal, Grand Brasserie, where she enjoyed a very French trout amandine.  Then Bret shared clips from an interview with Daniel Garwood, who is chef at Acru, a restaurant that opened in New York's West Village in October. Originally from Australia, Garwood arrived in the United States in 2022 and landed a job as sous chef of the popular modern Korean restaurant Atomix before being put in charge of Acru where, among other things, he is serving dry-aged steaks from dairy cows.

On this week's podcast, Pat Cobe, senior menu editor of Restaurant Business, and Bret Thorn, senior food & beverage editor of Nation's Restaurant News and Restaurant Hospitality, discuss recent eating adventures. Pat took the subway to Jackson Heights, a multicultural neighborhood in the New York City borough of Queens. It's home to a large population of Nepalese and Tibetan families, and momos are one of their specialties.  Momos are round or crescent-shaped steamed or fried dumplings with fillings of spiced beef, chicken, goat, chives or potato. Led by a friend who has sampled many a momo in the Himalayas, the group visited four restaurants and one food truck, tasting a good cross-section of dumplings. It was a new culinary experience for Pat and one she would like to repeat soon. Both Menu Talk hosts described their opulent Thanksgiving feasts, and Bret continued his feasting on Black Friday. He and a group of longtime friends have a tradition of visiting Chinatown after turkey day, and this year they started with soup dumplings at Joe's Shanghai, a spot famous for the item. They followed that with drinks at Whiskey Tavern, then soup at Great NY Noodletown. Bret admitted the day-after “feasting” has gotten a bit lighter through the years. Pat visited Baar Baar, a modern Indian restaurant in NYC's East Village, where she enjoyed a dinner of small plates and inventive cocktails. Among the standouts was Dahi Puri, tiny crisp rice shells filled with potato, cilantro and spices and topped with yogurt mousse and house-made chutney. Her Anarkali cocktail was an Indian-flavored riff on an Aperol Spritz; a combination of gin, Aperol, rose cordial, cardamom and prosecco. We moved on to chat about smoothies and bowls after playing clips from an interview with Deborah Von Kutzleben, CMO of Tropical Smoothie Café. She discussed how the chain differentiates itself from its competitors with an all-day menu, how it is positioning itself for Gen Z's snacking style, and how items like a pork slider are the perfect add-ons for a signature smoothie. 

On this week's podcast, Pat Cobe, senior menu editor of Restaurant Business, and Bret Thorn, senior food & beverage editor of Nation's Restaurant News and Restaurant Hospitality, discuss recent tasting adventures as the holidays approach.  Pat went to Pete's Tavern near Union Square in Manhattan, which decks itself out in Christmas regalia every year. She went early with friends to beat the crowds and enjoyed well-made fish & chips while her friends had burgers and nachos. The festive décor and negronis made up for the pouring rain. On another day, Pat and her friends went to Mermaid Inn's Times Square location, which has an “amazing” happy hour from 4-5:30 p.m. every day. That includes $12 cocktails and a bunch of appetizers, highlighted by particularly good oysters.  Bret went to the 30th anniversary celebration of Virgil's, also in Times Square. It's a barbecue restaurant run by the same people who operate neighboring Italian-American landmark Carmine's. Both are among those rare places in Midtown Manhattan where you can usually show up with a large crowd and get a table, and also eat your fill for a reasonable price. A guest at the celebration was Shaw-naé Dixon of Shaw-naé's House on Staten Island, who served her Savage Fries, which are fries topped with braised oxtail, four cheese mac & cheese and collard greens. Bret recommended that highly. Bret also shared an interview with Chris and Megan Curren, who operate Graceful Ordinary, a restaurant in St. Charles, Illinois, that opened at the tail-end of the pandemic and serves satisfying and slightly cheffed-up food from its wood-burning hearth. Give a listen.

On this week's podcast, Pat Cobe, senior menu editor of Restaurant Business, and Bret Thorn, senior food & beverage editor of Nation's Restaurant News and Restaurant Hospitality, discuss recent tasting adventures, starting with more of a smelling experience. Bret was invited by Via Carota, a gem of an Italian restaurant in Greenwich Village, to try their new bottled cocktails. But the event was held at a perfume shop that crafted personal scents for the attendees while they sipped on espresso martinis, spritzes and white negronis. Bret left with samples of both bottled cocktails and his custom scent. Pat visited Jones Wood Foundry, a British-style pub with an impressive draft beer selection. Between the Scotch eggs, Yorkshire pudding with blue cheese lemon dip, curried chicken pot pie and toffee pudding, she could have been in London rather than a few blocks from her Manhattan apartment.  We shared an interview with Anthony Amoroso, the new VP of innovation and growth at Maggiano's Little Italy. Amoroso has helmed the kitchen in several famous independents and Michelin-starred restaurants, and now welcomes this opportunity to return to his Italian-American roots and work with the chefs across Maggiano's 50 locations.  He talks about how he is elevating the dining experience with top-quality ingredients and presentations while retaining the menu's well-loved favorites and Maggiano's tradition. Amoroso also works closely with the beverage director and sommelier, and new cocktails and wine selections now complement the food. And he describes what's next in terms of the Dallas-based chain's menu, restaurant design and growth. 

On this week's podcast, Pat Cobe, senior menu editor of Restaurant Business, and Bret Thorn, senior food & beverage editor of Nation's Restaurant News and Restaurant Hospitality, discussed Bret's trip to the San Francisco Bay area, where he went for The Culinary Institute of America's annual Worlds of Flavor conference in Napa.  The theme this year was Borders, Migration, and the Evolution of Culinary Tradition, which Bret acknowledged was quite a mouthful, but basically it was a discussion of how cooks adjust their food based on what ingredients are available and what customs and traditions are around them, as well as their own life experiences. In short: It's all fusion. Highlights included a demonstration of southern Italian spaghetti and tomato sauce made like it was risotto and accompanied by a lecture of how spaghetti and tomatoes got to Italy, and lentil fritters that combined the traditions of West Africa and East Africa. Bret then spent the weekend in San Francisco, and a culinary highlight was a pastrami sandwich with horseradish and red pepper aïoli at Mario's Bohemian Cigar Store Café in the North Beach neighborhood.  Pat stayed in New York City and checked out a Cambodian restaurant called Bayon. It was her first time trying that particular cuisine and she found it lighter and more subtle than the cuisines of its neighbors, Vietnam and Thailand. She also had brunch at Sarabeth's, a long-standing concept with four locations in New York City, where she enjoyed tasty popovers and mushrooms with eggs. Then Bret shared an interview with Cheng Lin, chef and owner of Shota Omakase in the Brooklyn neighborhood of Williamsburg. The chef discussed the importance of rice in sushi and of cultivating regular customers.

On this week's podcast, Pat Cobe, senior menu editor of Restaurant Business, and Bret Thorn, senior food & beverage editor of Nation's Restaurant News and Restaurant Hospitality, discuss a week's worth of eating experiences, starting with a dine-around in Chicago. The two editors were in Chicago for the last conference of the International Foodservice Editorial Council, familiarly known as IFEC, and the opening event featured a tasting tour of three restaurants in the city's Fulton Market district. Chef-owner Joe Flamm of Rose Mary spoke about his popular Croatian-Italian restaurant while we chowed down Pork Ribs Pampanella with Calabrian Chile Agrodolce and walnut relish as well as Beef Cheek Gnocchi; at Publican Quality Meats we learned how to spatchcock a chicken while nibbling on Grilled Pork & Mango Brochettes, Porchetta Sandwiches and charcuterie; and at Leña Brava, we sampled Watermelon Aguachile and al pastor-marinated Watermelon Steak and sipped a watermelon cocktail and mocktail.  While in Chicago, Pat also had dinner at Eataly, and was reminded of how this Italian retail emporium is also a worthy restaurant destination. She joined friends at Vino &, an in-store wine bar with a large menu featuring specialties like Tagliolini al Limone, Pollo alla Milanese and Grilled Branzino, all of which her table ordered along with a nice bottle of red wine.  Bret continues to explore his Brooklyn neighborhood, where he discovered some Eastern European meat dumplings that he brought home for dinner. First, he tried them the traditional way, topped with sour cream, but then concocted an Asian-influenced “ranch dressing” with chili crisp and Chinese black vinegar that took the dumplings into another flavor dimension. This week we share an interview with renowned chef and restaurateur Michael Mina, whose new cookbook, “My Egypt,” was just published. Subtitled “Cooking from My Roots,” the book relates Mina's experiences of journeying back to Egypt—which he left at the age of two—to rediscover his family's culinary legacy. The result is a book filled with stories, firsthand cooking experiences and a lifetime of recipes. Mina operates more than 30 restaurants in the U.S., including the recently opened Orla in Santa Monica, California—his first to specialize in Egyptian-Mediterranean cuisine. Here he elevates the dishes he enjoyed eating around his mother's table and shares the food he tasted and cooked in Egypt. Listen as the chef shares his passion for Egyptian food and talks about how Mina Group is ramping up restaurant openings.

On this week's podcast, Pat Cobe, senior menu editor of Restaurant Business, and Bret Thorn, senior food & beverage editor of Nation's Restaurant News and Restaurant Hospitality, discussed their recent eating adventures. That included Pat's visit to a Hampton Inn, home of the original waffle bar, created by the midscale hotel chain 40 years ago.  That historical milestone is being celebrated by the hotel chain and promoted by Paris Hilton, since Hampton Inn is a brand of her family's hospitality empire, in the form of special pink waffles with edible glitter that guests can add. The hosts observed that there's a lot of edible glitter on menus these days, because it's fun and dazzling on social media and, one hopes, safe to eat.  It turns out that some onions being served by McDonald's probably weren't safe and allegedly sickened a number of people, resulting in one fatality. Pat and Bret discussed that turn of events. First, however Bret discussed his visit to a sushi restaurant in Midtown Manhattan, which he said was fine, just like a lot of sushi is fine these days, but not with the attention to detail that came with sushi in the past—the server didn't even bother to explain what type of fish he had been served. Pat suggested that this is what happens when food like sushi becomes ubiquitous.  She had a chance to visit the newest location of Kernel, a heavily automated quick-service restaurant developed by Chipotle founder Steve Ells, and was happy to report that the formerly meatless chain is now serving chicken.  While Pat was at Kernel, Bret went to a preview of Hudson Club, a new restaurant in Midtown Manhattan headed up by chef John DeLucie. He particularly enjoyed oysters with an apple mignonette, and that was a nice segue to this week's guest, Aaron Juvera, a level one certified oyster master and chef de cuisine of Southerleigh Fine Foods & Brewery in San Antonio, Texas.  Juvera discussed the oyster master certification program, Texas's burgeoning oyster-cultivation industry and Southerleigh's increasing use of lesser-known fish species. We hope you'll tune in.

On this week's podcast, Pat Cobe, senior menu editor of Restaurant Business, and Bret Thorn, senior food & beverage editor of Nation's Restaurant News and Restaurant Hospitality, share highlights from their recent eating and drinking excursions. Both editors attended a media preview of Taco Bell's chef-created Crunchwrap Supremes. The chain tapped three emerging chefs to come up with variations of this wildly popular menu item, and the results included Indian and Thai versions as well as a Southwest-style hot chicken.  Bret also attended a Cava event at a country western bar in Williamsburg, Brooklyn, to celebrate the launch of the fast casual's garlic ranch pita chips. The tie-in between ranch as a flavor and “ranch” as an icon of the American West was a little shaky, but Bret enjoyed the new chips and some ranch water cocktails.  Australian coffee café Bluestone Lane was also a recent stop on Bret's itinerary. It's known for its personalized service, and he reported that he did get extra-special attention along with his flat white. And Pat took a trip to Cape Cod and treated herself to a lobster roll done in the Connecticut style—hot and toasty with lots of melted butter. She also enjoyed a New England specialty: fried clam bellies. Speaking of clams, we share a conversation with Sammy Monsour, chef at Joyce Soul & Sea in L.A. and an ambassador for Food for Climate League, where he is promoting sustainable bivalves like clams as well as sea vegetables. October is National Seafood Month, and Monsour describes how he sources and prepares fresh seaweed, sea lettuces and mussels at his restaurant. He also talks about his advocacy work with the Monterey Bay Aquarium and other nonprofits to help chefs and consumers make smarter choices when it comes to farm-raised and wild-caught seafood.

On this week's podcast, Pat Cobe, senior menu editor of Restaurant Business, and Bret Thorn, senior food & beverage editor of Nation's Restaurant News and Restaurant Hospitality, discuss a week's worth of eating adventures, starting with the CREATE conference in Nashville.  The conference, geared toward emerging chains, is organized by NRN, so Bret and his colleagues were on the ground hosting sessions and networking with operators. He was super-impressed with the quality of the speakers—not a dud among them. Bret was very busy at CREATE but he still had time to hit a couple of Nashville's restaurants, including Rodney Scott's whole-hog barbecue spot. Scott is famous for his North Carolina-style barbecue, where his now six-location restaurant started, and Bret feasted on pulled pork with cole slaw and collard greens. Spanish restaurant Barcelona was another stop on his Nashville dining tour, and Bret got to try a unique rendition of boquerones—marinated anchovies served on house-made potato chips—and huge platters of paella.  Once back home, Bret attended EatOkra, a new festival celebrating Black-owned businesses. One of the standouts he sampled were nachos made with plantain chips topped with Haitian-style braised pork. He also took a trip to Princeton N.J. and visited restaurant Agricole, where he had a tasty mushroom flatbread. And Bret stopped at McDonald's on the way back to try the new Chicken Big Mac. Tune in to hear his review. Meanwhile, back in New York, Pat attended Eeeeeatscon, a food and entertainment festival organized by restaurant review platform, The Infatuation. All the vendors were local restaurants, including Shake Shack—now a national chain that got its start in Manhattan. Its booth served up the Thai Burger Shack, a cheeseburger topped with “evil jungle prince Shack Sauce,” pickled bamboo, green chili relish and Thai basil. Pat's favorite taste was Hong Kong Style Wonton Noodles from Great NY Noodletown. Also on offer were empanadas from actress Sophia Vergara's Toma, a retail brand that she and her son, Manolo (the chef in the family) are planning to spin off into a fast casual. Manolo was especially proud of the everything bagel empanada he created exclusively for Eeeeeatscon. Chef Tse Richmond We wrapped up with clips from an interview Pat did with Tse Richmond, a culinary specialist with Sysco in Portland, Oregon. The chef was excited to talk about the fall product line from Sysco's Cutting Edge Solutions, an innovation-focused division that supports smaller producers. Just rolling out this week are several seafood products, a new condiment, recipe-ready beans and global pork preparations. All are designed to help operators save time and labor while turning out signature menu items. Chef Richmond is also playing around with AI, and she enthusiastically shares tips and smart strategies to maximize its benefits in the kitchen. Give a listen.

Bret was a bit of a homebody last week as he prepared for CREATE: The Event for Emerging Restaurateurs, a conference that Nation's Restaurant News is hosting in Nashville this week, but he did enjoy traditional Jewish brisket for Rosh Hashannah at a friend's home in Manhattan.  Pat attended two Broadway shows that were preceded by tasty and affordable meals, which can be hard to find in New York City's Theater District. She had a prix fixe pre-theater dinner of creamy parsnip soup, grilled swordfish with vegetables, and baklava at Kellari Taverna for $55, and before a Saturday matinee, she had a tasty and reasonably priced brunch at Boqueria, which was less than $20 per person (before tip) — an extreme rarity in Midtown Manhattan. The co-hosts also discussed the Chicken Big Mac, which McDonald's is launching on Oct. 10, replacing the two all-beef patties with breaded and fried chicken patties. Like the original sandwich, the new version has special sauce, lettuce, cheese, and pickles, but no onions. Bret wondered about that, which led to a discussion on the role of onions on a chicken sandwich and whether, in fact, they have a role to play at all.  Then he shared an interview he had done with Rob Levitt, head butcher and chef de cuisine of Publican Quality Meats in Chicago. Levitt shared his passion for butchery and his appreciation for One-Off Hospitality's leader and chef, Paul Kahan. He also discussed his appearance on the hit TV show "The Bear," streaming on Hulu, in which he played himself.

Bret Thorn, senior food & beverage editor of Nation's Restaurant News and Restaurant Hospitality, kicked off this week's podcast by briefly introducing a friend, of sorts. He had asked ChatGPT to greet the audience of Menu Talk, and the chatbot, which can now simulate a human voice much better than the electronic messages we have grown accustomed to, inferred pretty accurately what sorts of topics would be discussed in a podcast with that name. Real co-host Pat Cobe, senior menu editor of Restaurant Business, was duly impressed. She was also impressed by KPOT, a Korean barbecue and hot pot concept that is one of the fastest growing restaurant chains in the country. The food was abundant and well-priced, the service was great and apart from the hot pot and barbecue, there was also a substantial food bar with kimchi and an assortment of different sauces, among other items. Then Bret shared clips of an interview he did with Olivier Rassinoux, vice president of culinary and bar for Patina Restaurant Group, and they discussed cocktail trends, including spirit-free cocktails, as well as Rassinoux's management style and the joy of dining out.

On this week's podcast, Pat Cobe, senior menu editor of Restaurant Business, and Bret Thorn, senior food & beverage editor of Nation's Restaurant News and Restaurant Hospitality, start off by chatting about the joys of grazing. Neither editor is in the Gen Z or Millennial age group that popularized the “girl dinner” on TikTok, but both like to try small tastes of a lot of different things—whether they are eating alone or dining with friends. On a recent visit to Boston, Bret went to a dinner party where friends gathered around the counter and nibbled on Middle Eastern dips, sashimi, grilled scallops and more while they caught up with each other. Pat is a fan of happy hours, which encourage sharing and nibbling without breaking the bank. She recently went to Springs Tavern on the East End of Long Island where the group ordered a multi-cultural spread that included mussels and frites, potstickers, chicken nachos and Mediterranean spreads with pita. Everything was under $15, including the $12 well-crafted margaritas. Bret also mentioned how heat levels are escalating, sometimes to the detriment of the dish. During a visit to a Chinese restaurant his table specified “medium” spicing on the food they ordered, but it was too hot for most of the diners.  Which brings us to Eggs in Purgatory, an item that seems to be showing up more often on breakfast menus. Can it be the next Shakshuka? Let us know your thoughts. Pat was down in Atlanta visiting GoTo Foods and the team from Moe's Southwest Kitchen. She learned to roll her own burrito like the pros at Moe's and got a sneak peek at some of the flavors coming on to the menu. Look for birria and chili crisp soon. And we shared clips from an interview with Paul Pszybylski, VP of culinary innovation for California Pizza Kitchen. The chef has been with CPK for 15 years but recently moved into this role.  He talks about how the menu has evolved, the signatures that can never be taken away, labor challenges, and the new direction of CPK's sourcing and limited time offers. Chef Pszybylski is especially proud of the new Nashville hot chicken pizza he developed. Give a listen.

On this week's podcast, Pat Cobe, senior menu editor of Restaurant Business, and Bret Thorn, senior food & beverage editor of Nation's Restaurant News and Restaurant Hospitality, talk about the post-summer flurry of restaurant activity in New York City. Bret was treated to a pre-opening preview of Alessa, a new Italian restaurant where the chef created a menu spotlighting mushrooms in many sizes and shapes. His first bite was a white pizza topped with assorted mushrooms and lots of garlic, then he moved on to crab-stuffed cremini mushrooms and risotto with hen-of-the-woods and truffle butter. Mushrooms and fall are a perfect pairing, although the pistachio gelato for dessert was devoid of mushrooms. Bret also got to try a new Korean restaurant from Hand Hospitality called Odre, where the food is cooked in cast-iron pots. It's kind of a rustic style for what he thought was a refined tasting menu, but he thoroughly enjoyed all the different courses. That night, he sampled asparagus with cured shrimp in a pine nut sauce with grapefruit, squash pancakes, little pork dumplings with shiso leaf, and braised beef shank with shishito pepper and yes—mushrooms. The tasting menu is a reasonable $42 for dinner. Also on Bret's restaurant itinerary was the revamped Central Park Boathouse, a venue in the middle of NYC's Central Park that has long been known as a special occasion place. It was recently taken over by Legends Hospitality—the same company that does the food at Yankee Stadium—and there's a new chef-driven menu that makes it a great destination for lunch and dinner. David Pasternak, a chef known for his former seafood-focused restaurant Esca, is a consultant, so Bret tried some of the fish dishes, including a salmon crudo and swordfish. Pat was on vacation and was dining around in the South of France instead of New York City, but she did get a chance to interview Brad Hedeman and Mo Frechette of Zingerman's, the destination deli in Ann Arbor, Michigan. Brad and Mo both worked behind the counter and in the retail section of the famous deli, but now head up Zingerman's thriving mail-order business. They talk about how they travel the world to meet farmers and producers and procure the specialty foods that have built Zingerman's reputation. Service and hospitality are built into Zingerman's DNA, and Brad and Mo share how they extend that to online customers that they never interact with face-to-face. People in any part of the restaurant industry can learn a lot from their many years of combined experience and fascinating stories. Give a listen.

On this week's podcast, Nation's Restaurant News and Restaurant Hospitality senior food & beverage editor Bret Thorn is joined by Lisa Jennings, executive editor of Restaurant Business, who subbed in for Pat Cobe. Lisa came fresh off of the launch of Rokusho in Los Angeles, which has an eight-seat omakase room upstairs that's an outpost of a Udatsu Sushi, a Michelin-starred restaurant based in Tokyo. It's headed up by chef Shingo Ogane, but it will also host visiting Japanese chefs for three-week stints. Downstairs is a more casual sushi restaurant run by Carlos Couts, recently of Sushi by Scratch. The venue is a collaboration between the Japanese parent company and Boulevard Hospitality Group, which operates many properties in L.A., including Yamashiro, Comedor and the TCL Chinese Theatre. Lisa particularly enjoyed an avocado half stuffed with salmon tartare and served with nori seaweed, allowing guests to make their own handrolls. Bret discussed the trends that Rokusho addresses, including experiential dining, making news with visiting chefs and providing luxury for guests who can afford to pay for it. He went to the opening of the second location of Reserve Cut, a kosher steakhouse. It has long had a location in Manhattan's Tribeca neighborhood, but the new one is in Midtown. It's a much grander space than its downtown sibling and is trying to show that kosher dining can appeal to a broader audience than just Jews who follow religious dietary practices. Apart from steak, Bret enjoyed the restaurant's sushi, short rib tacos, butternut squash bites and more. He also is continuing to explore his new neighborhood of Sheepshead Bay in Brooklyn, where he discovered fresh dates, which are crunchy and taste like less-concentrated versions of dried dates. Lisa had not had fresh dates, although California has a robust date industry, but she did recently try paw paws for the first time while she was visiting Philadelphia. She said they'd be great as ice cream. Bret marveled that fresh dates apparently weren't being used by Angeleno chefs, and recalled that chefs in Atlanta didn't used to cook with local green peanuts, but now they do. So perhaps there is a future for fresh dates in restaurants in California. Then the editors discussed TV food competition shows. They're not fans, but Bret did enjoy his interview with Alyssa Osinga, who is chef de cuisine of The Butcher's Cellar, which opened earlier this year in Waco, Texas. She was a contestant on Hell's Kitchen, where she met Alejandro Najar, who is executive chef of The Butcher's Cellar and Osinga's life partner. Bret shared clips with his interview with Osinga, who discussed the restaurant and the fact that she strives to find uncomfortable situations, because they help her to grow.

On this week's podcast, Pat Cobe, senior menu editor of Restaurant Business, and Bret Thorn, senior food & beverage editor of Nation's Restaurant News and Restaurant Hospitality, discussed the time they spent on and near the water in New York City. Pat took a ferry down the East River to Wall Street to check out Jean-Georges Vongerichten's Tin Building, a much-ballyhooed food hall that neither co-host had had a chance to visit yet. Pat enjoyed a savory buckwheat crêpe, and observed that she also had the option to have a South Indian crêpe-like item called a dosa, a fact that dovetailed nicely with a feature that Bret had just written on chicken curry, one of the fastest-growing types of chicken dishes on menus these days. Bret has taken to watching the birds flying over Sheepshead Bay, where he lives now, and he strolled along the bay to Rocca, a Turkish-accented restaurant with a bayside view, where he had a light meal of various mezze dips such as labneh, hummus, babaghanoush and Turkish bread. Pat, too, had sampled a Turkish food she'd never had before, a tiny dumpling called manti, which she had with labneh at a Turkish place called A la Turka. In other food samplings, Bret was sent Buffalo Wild Wings' chicken wings with its new Bacon Buffalo sauce as well as its Triple Bacon Cheeseburger. The guest this week is William Dissen, chef and owner of The Market Place in Asheville, North Carolina, as well as three-unit Billy D's Fried Chicken. Dissen recently returned from a culinary ambassador mission to Malaysia, where he cooked for stateless children near the city of Kota Kinabalu. He also recently published his first cookbook, “Thoughtful Cooking: Recipes Rooted in the New South.” Dissen said the book reflects his own ethos of using wholesome, local food, and he advocates for people to cook that way at home, too. The restaurateur doesn't just help Malaysian kids. He's also involved in education programs for young people at home in North Carolina, and he discussed that mission and also shared strategies for keeping his restaurant's staff engaged, motivated and excited to provide great hospitality.

On this week's podcast, Pat Cobe, senior menu editor of Restaurant Business, and Bret Thorn, senior food & beverage editor of Nation's Restaurant News and Restaurant Hospitality, talk about how tennis players aren't the only stars at the US Open, which kicked off on Monday. There's a lot of star power off the courts, with more than 20 top New York City restaurants and chefs offering their specialties over the next two weeks. The podcast guest this week is JJ Johnson, a well-known TV chef, James Beard award-winning cookbook author and founder of Fieldtrip, a fast casual bowl concept that reflects the chef's Afro-Caribbean roots. Johnson worked as a fine-dining chef before opening Fieldtrip, which now has four locations, including the newest at the Atlantis Resort in the Bahamas. Johnson started Fieldtrip to bring healthier, affordable restaurant food to his Harlem community. He sources top quality ingredients, including rice from farmers in North Carolina, to curate his rice bowls, which also include fresh vegetables and proteins for a complete meal. All the sauces are made from scratch to give the bowls unique flavor profiles. Listen as chef and restaurateur Johnson describes his vision for Fieldtrip, his cooking adventures at Martha's Vineyard and his plans for the future.

On this week's podcast, Pat Cobe, senior menu editor of Restaurant Business, and Bret Thorn, senior food & beverage editor of Nation's Restaurant News and Restaurant Hospitality, discussed pumpkin spice season, which is upon us in August just as it is every year, despite annual complaints that it arrives too early. But as Pat observed, operators know when their customers want to start buying those autumnal items, and that time is now.  It's also “Restaurant Week,” in New York City, which now lasts for a month, and Pat made it to a long-standing Jean-Georges Vongerichten restaurant, Perry Street, where son Cedric Vongerichten helms the kitchen. For dinner, she had great pea soup, fried chicken with sweet corn sauce and molten chocolate cake, paired well with sparkling wine, Grüner Veltliner and a berry-flavored spritz-like dessert cocktail. All in, it was $60 for dinner and another $40 for the pairings. That's a good value in New York City, but Pat also took a trip to the Berkshires in Massachusetts, a popular summertime getaway for New Yorkers and Bostonians, and was surprised and delighted to find that entree prices there were considerably lower than at other seasonal resorts in the Hamptons and Cape Cod. Bret stayed local, but enjoyed a good $12 cocktail at his favorite bar, Logan's Run in the Brooklyn neighborhood of Park Slope, and reported in Restaurant Hospitality's New on the Menu column about a cocktail that was a cross between a spritz and an Espresso Martini. The podcast guest this week was Paco Moran, who won season 52 of the TV competition show “Chopped” and is also the executive chef of Loreto, a Mexican seafood restaurant in Los Angeles. Moran's a native Angelino whose parents are from El Salvador, and he started working in restaurants at age 17, when he had a child on the way and needed to make money. He worked hard in professional kitchens at a time when those environments could be quite harsh, and Moran has taken a different approach in managing his own restaurant. He said the cruelty of the past isn't necessary and he wants his restaurants to be fun to work in. That's especially true since his son, now aged 16, is working for him too. That has taught him and his crew patience, both to their benefit and to that of the young cooks who are joining his team. Although he is now an executive chef, Moran loves to get back on the line and cook.

This week on Menu Talk, Pat Cobe, senior menu editor of Restaurant Business, and Bret Thorn, senior food & beverage editor of Nation's Restaurant News and Restaurant Hospitality, zero in on Japanese tasting menus and a trendy pizza style. Bret paid a visit to Hakubai in the Kitano Hotel, a restaurant known for its kaiseki menu. Kaiseki is a Japanese tasting menu similar to omakase, but it's more specifically focused on pristine, seasonal ingredients. Hakubai's 11-course menu was paired with sake and the amuse-bouche stood out as one of Bret's favorite parts. It was a very tender and succulent squid with a Japanese-style vinaigrette and caviar on top—another example underscoring caviar as the “it” ingredient this year. Pat's pizza experience was a bit more down market but very tasty. She had dinner at Emmy Squared, a Detroit-style sit-down pizza restaurant that earned a spot on Restaurant Business' Future 50 ranking of emerging chains this year. Detroit pizza is a rectangular pie that's baked in a black cast iron pan so that every slice comes out with a very crispy edge. It originated in Detroit and may have some link to the auto industry but it's now trending outside of that city—as proven by Emmy Squared, which is expanding on the East Coast. Pat had the MVP pizza topped with vodka sauce, pesto, burrata and Calabrian chilies and, as a New Yorker, she may just become a Detroit pizza fan.  Food halls have traditionally been another lower-risk way to test out a concept or menu, but they have evolved a bit since the pandemic. Pat shared her interview with food hall veteran Akhtar Nawab, who has opened and operated several in the last few years. His company, Hospitality HQ, tends to stick to smaller cities, such as Omaha, Charlotte, North Carolina, and metro-Minneapolis rather than New York, Chicago and L.A. Chef Nawab talks about the importance of having a good mix of cuisines. And the concepts don't all have to be fast casual. A live-fire Brazilian-style full-service steak concept that's clearly higher-end is doing very well in one of his newer food halls. Event spaces are also key to success; a place to host planned activities that turn food halls into destinations for more than eating and drinking.

This week, Pat Cobe, senior menu editor of Restaurant Business, and Bret Thorn, senior food & beverage editor of Nation's Restaurant News and Restaurant Hospitality, discussed their visits to Tara Kitchen, a Moroccan restaurant run by Indian chef Aneesa Waheed with three locations near Albany, New York, one in Wildwood, New Jersey, one in Hyderabad, India, and one in the New York City neighborhood of Tribeca. Pat and Bret took separate trips to the Tribeca location, where Pat had brunch and enjoyed the 1,000-hole pancakes, a traditional Moroccan dish made with a yeast batter that bubbles and produces all those holes, giving the pancakes a lacy quality. Bret, coincidentally, had also visited the restaurant just to get a look at those pancakes and watch the chef prepare them. Pat discussed a story she wrote last week that was a deep dive into recent menu innovations in family dining. Many of the big chains in that segment, including IHOP, Denny's, Perkins and Cracker Barrel have undertaken substantial overhauls recently as they try to find the balance between attracting new guests without alienating existing ones, all while providing value. Bret wrote about potatoes last week, and how, especially in the form of French fries, they can be a vehicle for introducing new flavors. It's an increasingly common strategy to add lesser-known ingredients to something familiar to make them seem less scary. Bret said flavor combinations like Indian tandoori chicken or Vietnamese bánh mì can seem more approachable if you put them on top of fries. Pat noted other places where French fries are added, like on Bobby Flay's burgers and on Primanti Brothers' sandwiches. Then Bret shared his interview with Bryan Ogden, the chef of Bourbon Steak's New York City location. He is also the son of Bradley Ogden, a pioneer in the modern American cuisine movement of a generation ago.

The team behind Brine, a fast casual with a location in New York City and another in Fair Lawn, New Jersey, invited 100 of the restaurant's regulars (plus some media folks) to taste test new menu items and evaluate them. Chef-partner Joe LoNigro was behind the counter as guests helped themselves to grilled chicken with a “umami” sauce, roasted Brussels sprouts, a spicy chicken sandwich, elote corn ribs, tostones and Brine's new take on its house-made Pop-Tart-inspired dessert. It will be interesting to see what makes it onto the menu, but we liked those corn ribs, grilled chicken and Brussels sprouts. Bret returned to Momofuku, celeb chef David Chang's NYC flagship, with some out-of-town friends who wanted to go for dinner. Although it wouldn't have been Bret's first choice, everything was better than he expected. Of particular note was a new tomahawk pork katsu with a Japanese-style curry sauce and the kimchi, which got the seal of approval from both Bret and his Korean-American dining companion. We also talked about how and why Pete Wells is ending his 12-year-run as restaurant critic of The New York Times, citing how dining out four or five times a week can become a health hazard—even if it sounds like an enviable job. Our guest this week is Jacob Bickelhaupt, chef-owner of Konro in West Palm Beach, Florida. The self-taught chef trained under culinary icon Charlie Trotter, and at Konro, he offers a 10-14 course tasting menu serving just 10 guests nightly, all of whom sit at the chef's counter. Although the artful cuisine is not Japanese, it is an intimate omakase-style experience, complete with wine pairings by sommelier Nadia Bickelhaupt, Jacob's wife. Jacob is six years sober and has created a selection of non-alcoholic pairings that closely mimic the wines, each house-made through a multi-step process. The couple orchestrates the evening at Konro to be as much an extension of their home as a unique and memorable gastronomic experience.

This week, Pat Cobe, senior menu editor of Restaurant Business, and Bret Thorn, senior food & beverage editor of Nation's Restaurant News and Restaurant Hospitality, discussed national food holidays. In a nutshell, they're not huge fans of promotions like National Chicken Wing Day or National Tequila Day, but they do acknowledge that promotions around them can be effective marketing tools and traffic drivers, which are particularly important these days as costs rise and guest counts decline. Pat discussed her recent visit to La Palapa, a Mexican restaurant that has been in New York City's East Village at least for a couple of decades. She gave top marks to the margaritas, guac and churros, enjoyed everything else, and was pleased to see that the restaurant was busy. Bret is continuing to explore his new neighborhood of Sheepshead Bay in Brooklyn, New York, including Wheeler's, a bar and restaurant that, like La Palapa, has been around for decades and serves large portions of perfectly fine food. They also discussed New York Restaurant Week, which is actually a month long this year, and shared strategies for the best ways to capitalize on it (in short, don't cheap out; put your best foot forward). Then Bret shared clips from his conversation with Trevin Hutchins, beverage director of Aphotic, a seafood restaurant in San Francisco, where he offers a very ambitious beverage program, including house-distilled gin that has seaweed as its main botanical. Hutchins also offers a non-alcoholic beverage pairing for the restaurant's tasting menus for which everything is made in-house, and he went into detail about the process for putting that together.

This week, Pat Cobe, senior menu editor at Restaurant Business, shared her take on Blank Street's summer matcha drinks and the escalating price of lobster rolls, while Bret Thorn, senior food & beverage editor of Nation's Restaurant News and Restaurant Hospitality, recounted his visit to Philadelphia to dine at Iron Hill Brewery & Restaurant and Zahav, chef Michael Solomonov's Israeli restaurant. The guest on this week's Menu Talk is Dan Kluger, chef-partner of Greywind in New York. Chef Kluger got his start working with Danny Meyer at Union Square Café, then moved on to Tabla, where he was mentored by the late chef, Floyd Cardoz. He talks about how his experience at Tabla really molded his palate and management style.

This week, Pat Cobe, senior menu editor of Restaurant Business, recounted her visit to Fieldtrip, J.J. Johnson's Afro-Caribbean rice bowl concept with items like jerk meatballs and coconut yogurt, and Bret Thorn, senior food & beverage editor of Nation's Restaurant News and Restaurant Hospitality, discussed his visit with an old friend to an Indian restaurant attached to a Hindu temple in the New York City neighborhood of Flushing in Queens, which led to a discussion of rice-making techniques. Pat uses a fool-proof rice cooker and Bret uses a traditional pot, but he finishes it in the oven to prevent the rice from sticking to the bottom. Pat also visited Chick-fil-A's first all-digital location, which is designed for streamlined, order-ahead takeout and has a separate section for delivery drivers. Bret also expressed his joy at the return of potato cakes to Arby's locations nationwide, as it's one of his favorite quick-service sides, and that segued into an observation of both co-hosts about the increased availability of merch, especially clothing, sold by restaurants, which can be both a revenue stream and a marketing vehicle. The guest on this week's podcast was Tin Do, the CEO and founder of Krak Boba in Southern California. The beverage concept is actually named for the legendary Polish King Krakus, who saved his village from a dragon. Tin Do explained that Krak Boba's three philosophical pillars are courage, service and joy, and he discussed how he empowers his own team members to live their best lives while also encouraging guests to express their own “personaliTea.” Listen as he describes how he differentiates Krak Boba as the boba tea sector continues to trend.

Despite what are usually characterized as the “lazy days of summer,” there's been a lot of menu action this week. Pat and Bret both attended an outdoor pig roast at Back Bar in the Eventi Hotel in New York City. The patio party was hosted by Chef Laurent Tourondel and his team, who operate the dining venues at the hotel. They started cooking the pigs at noon, inside a charcoal-fired China box or “caja chino,” which is a Cuban style of cooking pork. The pigs were roasted to perfection by 6 p.m. with burnished, crackly skin and tender meat. The cooks sliced the pork and sandwiched it in bao buns with a creamy, garlicky green sauce. Also on offer was chicken shawarma and elote, where the ears of corn were cooked over live fire and topped with cotija cheese and spices. Bret was a guest at Heritage Grand Bakery, a grab-and-go eatery that's connected to a full-service restaurant with wood-burning pizza ovens. The owner, Lou Ramirez, is into ancient grains and uses a product called “population wheat” for baking. It's a type of wheat that results from tossing 17 different grains into a field, and whatever sprouts up is harvested and milled. Chef Ramirez uses population wheat in pizza crust and in a whole-grain pasta that's served with a mushroom sauce. Both check the boxes for sustainability, healthfulness and abundant flavor. Our guest this week was Mindy Armstrong, VP of menu innovation at Perkins and Huddle House. Perkins is on a revitalization journey, recently changing its name from Perkins Restaurant & Bakery to Perkins American Food Co. But Armstrong points out that the bakery will remain a differentiator, setting the chain apart in the family-dining segment. Pies are still menu mainstays, as are breakfast and comfort foods, but the plan is to offer more portable items, lean into sandwiches and burgers and innovate the beverage lineup. At Huddle House, the R&D strategy focuses on the core menu instead of creating limited-time specials. And with both chains, it's risky to get too wild with flavor. Family-dining chains seem to be on a reinvention streak lately, with Cracker Barrel, Friendly's, Denny's and now Perkins and even Huddle House all refreshing their menus and images. It will be interesting to watch this segment in the months ahead.

This week, Pat Cobe, senior menu editor of Restaurant Business, reported from Atlanta, where Menu Directions, a conference hosted by sister publication FoodService Director, had just wrapped up. Meanwhile, Bret Thorn, senior food & beverage editor of Nation's Restaurant News and Restaurant Hospitality, reported on happenings in New York City. Foodservice Director covers on-site dining, so attendees were mostly chefs from healthcare, schools, corporate dining, etc., rather than restaurants per se. Pat reported that they're a nice group eager to share ideas. This year that included strategies for using artificial intelligence in menu development, as well as approaches for reducing waste—such as using leftover coffee grounds as part of a spice rub for roasted beets and meats. Bret, meanwhile, attended a party thrown by the Mushroom Council where he enjoyed cocktails as well as lettuce wraps and tostadas made with different varieties of the fungus, and learned that the trade association is trying to make Mushroom Mondays a thing. Mushroom products also were on display at Menu Directions, blended into beef meatballs by Mush Foods, Pat said. Bret also attended the launch of Pizza Hut's new Chicago Tavern-Style Pizza, a thin-crust pie that's actually more popular in the Windy City than the better-known deep dish pizza. And he interviewed James Wozniuk, the chef of Makan, a Malaysian restaurant that started in Washington, D.C., and just opened a second unit in Charleston, S.C. The chef discussed why he loved Malaysian food, how he discovered it as a non-Malaysian, and how he went about developing the menu for Makan, which means “to eat” in Malay.

This week on Menu Talk, hosts Pat Cobe, senior menu editor of Restaurant Business, and Bret Thorn, senior food & beverage editor at Nation's Restaurant News and Restaurant Hospitality, start off with a beer tasting. Bret discovered a low-alcohol brew called kvass in his new Brooklyn neighborhood, which is populated by Russian, Ukrainian and Eastern European residents. As Pat visited Sysco headquarters in Houston to get an inside look at how innovative products get into the distributor's supply chain. Steak seems to be an ongoing topic of discussion here on Menu Talk. This week, we chat about Michael Mina's newest branch of Bourbon Steak, which opened in New York City recently. Along with Entrecote and Skirt Steak, two restaurants that offer a prix fixe steak dinner. Skirt Steak is one of Laurent Tourondel's restaurants, and reservations are hard to come by. One reason: for $45 per person, diners get grilled steak, fries, salad and bread. That's a pretty good deal at a chef-driven restaurant in Manhattan. Tourondel started as a chef in France, but has since operated restaurants in several U.S. locales, including New York, Philadelphia, Las Vegas and South Florida. Listen as the accomplished chef-restaurateur shares his journey and talks about what's next. A bakery is in the works. But another French restaurant? Not so fast.

This week on Menu Talk, hosted by Pat Cobe, senior menu editor of Restaurant Business, and Bret Thorn, senior food and beverage editor of Nation's Restaurant News and Restaurant Hospitality, we discuss the latest news in Cheez-It crackers. The snack food has partnered with Taco Bell to offer giant versions of Cheez-Its, and chef and restaurateur Dan Kluger is offering his own take at Greywind, his new restaurant near Hudson Yards in New York City. The guest for this week is Nia Grace, who Bret interviewed about her newest restaurant Grace by Nia at the Foxwoods Resort Casino in Connecticut. It's Grace's fourth restaurant, and the second location of Grace by Nia, which she opened in partnership with Big Night Entertainment, a restaurant and club operator in Boston. We also hear how the entrepreneurial chef infuses her family's culinary legacy into her menus.

This week on Menu Talk, hosts Pat Cobe, senior menu editor of Restaurant Business, and Bret Thorn, senior food and beverage editor at Nation's Restaurant News, share their take on high menu prices. Their editors at both publications have had a lot to say about fast-food inflation, but how about sticker shock at full-service restaurants? Fogo de Chao has found ways to keep prices reasonable without hurting its margins, as CEO Barry McGowan revealed in a chat with Pat. We played clips from their conversation, in which he talks about controlling costs by purchasing “overhang” from meat suppliers, in-house butchering and introducing new cuts to guests. Fogo has raised menu prices by 2.5% in the last couple of years, while other restaurants in the steakhouse category have averaged 10%, he said. And Bret gives the lowdown on some saucy new fast-food items he tasted. Wendy's introduced Saucy Nuggs, its version of chicken nuggets tossed and coated with sauce. There's a choice of seven flavor combos—four spicy and three a little tamer.

This week on Menu Talk, your hosts, Restaurant Business senior menu editor Pat Cobe and Bret Thorn, senior food & beverage editor of Nation's Restaurant News and Restaurant Hospitality, caught their breath after a whirlwind long weekend at the National Restaurant Association Show in Chicago, and they shared insights into what they saw and tasted there. Pat was struck by the prevalence of cardamom on the show floor, including in an Indian lassi and a new soda flavor from Tractor Beverage Co. Bret noticed sprouted coffee, green coffee that is treated with moisture, time, and controlled temperature so that it sprouts, resulting in coffee that is lower in acid and less bitter. Their colleagues at the show came across a wide variety of boba drinks, but Pat and Bret were more struck by the presence of caviar and caviar-like items, like Australian finger limes with pulp that bursts in a way similar to good fish roe, and other popping spherical food, such as encapsulated and flavored fortified fish broth that provided a lower-cost option for attractive presentations. Caviar has become an increasingly popular embellishment at full-service restaurants, even in fairly casual venues. Pat also sampled dulse, a seaweed that she said tastes like caviar. Restaurant Show attendees also often get invited to other events in Chicago, especially if they're members of the media, and Pat and Bret both attended one by Unilever Food Solutions at fine-dining restaurant Esmé, where they were presented with a multicourse meal that, apart from being beautiful, interactive and delicious, represented some of the broad trends that Unilever explained to the guests. And finally Bret played clips from his interview with Nathan Myhrvold, author of the food encyclopedia “Modernist Cuisine” and subsequent books, including his latest, “Modernist Bread at Home,” co-written with Francisco Migoya. Myhrvold debunked some common myths about bread baking, and our hosts learned that over-proofed bread doesn't need to be thrown away: It can be saved. Listen to the podcast to find out how.