Podcasts about apache license

Welcome to the newest episode of The Cloud Pod podcast! Justin, Ryan and Jonathan are your hosts this week as we discuss all the latest news and announcements in the world of the cloud and AI - including Amazon's new AI, Bedrock, as well as new AI tools from other developers. We also address the new updates to AWS's CodeWhisperer, and return to our Cloud Journey Series where we discuss *insert dramatic music* - Kubernetes!  Titles we almost went with this week: ⭐I'm always Whispering to My Code as an Individual

This week we're talking about serverless Postgres! We're joined by Nikita Shamgunov, co-founder and CEO of Neon. With Neon, truly serverless PostgreSQL is finally here. Neon isn't Postgres compatible…it actually is Postgres! Neon is also open source under the Apache License 2.0. We talk about what a cloud native serverless Postgres looks like, why developers want Postgres and why of the top 5 databases only Postgres is growing (according to DB-Engines Ranking), we talk about how they separated storage and compute to offer autoscaling, branching, and bottomless storage, we also talk about their focus on DX — where they're getting it right and where they need to improve. Neon is invite only as of the recording and release of this episode, but near the end of the show Nikita shares a few ways to get an invite and early access.

This week we're talking about serverless Postgres! We're joined by Nikita Shamgunov, co-founder and CEO of Neon. With Neon, truly serverless PostgreSQL is finally here. Neon isn't Postgres compatible…it actually is Postgres! Neon is also open source under the Apache License 2.0. We talk about what a cloud native serverless Postgres looks like, why developers want Postgres and why of the top 5 databases only Postgres is growing (according to DB-Engines Ranking), we talk about how they separated storage and compute to offer autoscaling, branching, and bottomless storage, we also talk about their focus on DX — where they're getting it right and where they need to improve. Neon is invite only as of the recording and release of this episode, but near the end of the show Nikita shares a few ways to get an invite and early access.

About RobertR2 advocates for Liquibase customers and provides technical architecture leadership. Prior to co-founding Datical (now Liquibase), Robert was a Director at the Austin Technology Incubator. Robert co-founded Phurnace Software in 2005. He invented and created the flagship product, Phurnace Deliver, which provides middleware infrastructure management to multiple Fortune 500 companies.Links: Liquibase: https://www.liquibase.com Liquibase Community: https://www.liquibase.org Liquibase AWS Marketplace: https://aws.amazon.com/marketplace/seller-profile?id=7e70900d-dcb2-4ef6-adab-f64590f4a967 Github: https://github.com/liquibase Twitter: https://twitter.com/liquibase TranscriptAnnouncer: Hello, and welcome to Screaming in the Cloud with your host, Chief Cloud Economist at The Duckbill Group, Corey Quinn. This weekly show features conversations with people doing interesting work in the world of cloud, thoughtful commentary on the state of the technical world, and ridiculous titles for which Corey refuses to apologize. This is Screaming in the Cloud.Corey: It seems like there is a new security breach every day. Are you confident that an old SSH key, or a shared admin account, isn't going to come back and bite you? If not, check out Teleport. Teleport is the easiest, most secure way to access all of your infrastructure. The open source Teleport Access Plane consolidates everything you need for secure access to your Linux and Windows servers—and I assure you there is no third option there. Kubernetes clusters, databases, and internal applications like AWS Management Console, Yankins, GitLab, Grafana, Jupyter Notebooks, and more. Teleport's unique approach is not only more secure, it also improves developer productivity. To learn more visit: goteleport.com. And not, that is not me telling you to go away, it is: goteleport.com. Corey: You know how Git works right?Announcer: Sorta, kinda, not really. Please ask someone else.Corey: That's all of us. Git is how we build things, and Netlify is one of the best ways I've found to build those things quickly for the web. Netlify's Git-based workflows mean you don't have to play slap-and-tickle with integrating arcane nonsense and web hooks, which are themselves about as well understood as Git. Give them a try and see what folks ranging from my fake Twitter for Pets startup, to global Fortune 2000 companies are raving about. If you end up talking to them—because you don't have to; they get why self-service is important—but if you do, be sure to tell them that I sent you and watch all of the blood drain from their faces instantly. You can find them in the AWS marketplace or at www.netlify.com. N-E-T-L-I-F-Y dot com.Corey: Welcome to Screaming in the Cloud. I'm Corey Quinn. This is a promoted episode. What does that mean in practice? Well, it means the company who provides the guest has paid to turn this into a discussion that's much more aligned with the company than it is the individual.Sometimes it works, Sometimes it doesn't, but the key part of that story is I get paid. Why am I bringing this up? Because today's guest is someone I met in person at Monktoberfest, which is the RedMonk conference in Portland, Maine, one of the only reasons to go to Maine, speaking as someone who grew up there. And I spoke there, I met my guest today, and eventually it turned into this, proving that I am the envy of developer advocates everywhere because now I can directly tie me attending one conference to making a fixed sum of money, and right now they're all screaming and tearing off their headphones and closing this episode. But for those of you who are sticking around, thank you. My guest today is the CTO and co-founder of Liquibase. Please welcome Robert Reeves. Robert, thank you for joining me, and suffering the slings and arrows I'm about to hurled directly into your arse, as a warning shot.Robert: [laugh]. Man. Thanks for having me. Corey, I've been looking forward to this for a while. I love hanging out with you.Corey: One of the things I love about the Monktoberfest conference, and frankly, anything that RedMonk gets up to is, forget what's on stage, which is uniformly excellent; forget the people at RedMonk who are wonderful and I aspire to do more work with them in different ways; they're great, but the people that they attract are invariably interesting, they are invariably incredibly diverse in terms of not just demographics, but interests and proclivities. It's just a wonderful group of people, and every time I get the opportunity to spend time with those folks I do, and I've never once regretted it because I get to meet people like you. Snark and cynicism about sponsoring this nonsense aside—for which I do thank you—you've been a fascinating person to talk to you because you're better at a lot of the database-facing things than I am, so I shortcut to instead of forming my own opinions, I just skate off of yours in some cases. You're going to get letters now.Robert: Well, look, it's an occupational hazard, right? Releasing software, it's hard so you have to learn these platforms, and part of it includes the database. But I tell you, you're spot on about Monktoberfest. I left that conference so motivated. Really opened my eyes, certainly injecting empathy into what I do on a day-to-day basis, but it spurred me to action.And there's a lot of programs that we've started at Liquibase that the germination for that seed came from Monktoberfest. And certainly, you know, we were bummed out that it's been canceled two years in a row, but we can't wait to get back and sponsor it. No end of love and affection for that team. They're also really smart and right about a hundred percent of the time.Corey: That's the most amazing part is that they have opinions that generally tend to mirror my own—which, you know—Robert: [laugh].Corey: —confirmation bias is awesome, but they almost never get it wrong. And that is one of the impressive things is when I do it, I'm shooting from the hip and I already have an apology half-written and ready to go, whereas when dealing with them, they do research on this and they don't have the ‘I'm a loud, abrasive shitpostter on Twitter' defense to fall back on to defend opinions. And if they do, I've never seen them do it. They're right, and the fact that I am as aligned with them as I am, you'd think that one of us was cribbing from the other. I assure you that's not the case.But every time Steve O'Grady or Rachel Stephens, or Kelly—I forget her last name; my apologies is all Twitter, but she studied medieval history, I remember that—or James Governor writes something, I'm uniformly looking at this and I feel a sense of dismay, been, “Dammit. I should have written this. It's so well written and it makes such a salient point.” I really envy their ability to be so consistently on point.Robert: Well, they're the only analysts we pay money to. So, we vote with our dollars with that one. [laugh].Corey: Yeah. I'm only an analyst when people have analyst budget. Other than that, I'm whatever the hell you describe me. So, let's talk about that thing you're here to show. You know, that little side project thing you found and are the CTO of.I wasn't super familiar with what Liquibase does until I looked into it and then had this—I got to say, it really pissed me off because I'm looking at it, and it's how did I not know that this existed back when the exact problems that you solve are the things I was careening headlong into? I was actively annoyed. You're also an open-source project, which means that you're effectively making all of your money by giving things away and hoping for gratitude to come back on you in the fullness of time, right?Robert: Well, yeah. There's two things there. They're open-source component, but also, where was this when I was struggling with this problem? So, for the folks that don't know, what Liquibase does is automate database schema change. So, if you need to update a database—I don't care what it is—as part of your application deployment, we can help.Instead of writing a ticket or manually executing a SQL script, or generating a bunch of docs in a NoSQL database, you can have Liquibase help you out with that. And so I was at a conference years ago, at the booth, doing my booth thing, and a managing director of a very large bank came to me, like, “Hey, what do you do?” And saw what we did and got angry, started yelling at me. “Where were you three years ago when I was struggling with this problem?” Like, spitting mad. [laugh]. And I was like, “Dude, we just started”—this was a while ago—it was like, “We just started the company two years ago. We got here as soon as we could.”But I struggled with this problem when I was a release manager. And so I've been doing this for years and years and years—I don't even want to talk about how long—getting bits from dev to test to production, and the database was always, always, always the bottleneck, whether it was things didn't run the same in test as they did, eventually in production, environments weren't in sync. It's just really hard. And we've automated so much stuff, we've automated application deployment, lowercase a compiled bits; we're building things with containers, so everything's in that container. It's not a J2EE app anymore—yay—but we haven't done a damn thing for the database.And what this means is that we have a whole part of our industry, all of our database professionals, that are frankly struggling. I always say we don't sell software Liquibase. We sell piano recitals, date nights, happy hours, all the stuff you want to do but you can't because you're stuck dealing with the database. And that's what we do at Liquibase.Corey: Well, you're talking about database people. That's not how I even do it. I would never call myself that, for very good reason because you know, Route 53 remains the only database I use. But the problem I always had was that, “Great. I'm doing a deployment. Oh, I'm going to put out some changes to some web servers. Okay, what's my rollback?” “Well, we have this other commit we can use.” “Oh, we're going to be making a database schema change. What's your rollback strategy,” “Oh, I've updated my resume and made sure that any personal files I had on my work laptop been backed up somewhere else when I immediately leave the company when we can't roll back.” Because there's not really going to be a company anymore at that point.It's one of those everyone sort of holds their breath and winces when it comes to anything that resembles a schema change—or an ALTER TABLE as we used to call it—because that is the mistakes will show territory and you can hope and plan for things in pre-prod environments, but it's always scary. It's always terrifying because production is not like other things. That's why I always call my staging environment ‘theory' because things work in theory but not in production. So, it's how do you avoid the mess of winding up just creating disasters when you're dealing with the reality of your production environments? So, let's back up here. How do you do it? Because it sounds like something people would love to sell me but doesn't exist.Robert: [laugh]. Well, it's real simple. We have a file, we call it the change log. And this is a ledger. So, databases need to be evolved. You can't drop everything and recreate it from scratch, so you have to apply changes sequentially.And so what Liquibase will do is it connects to the database, and it says, “Hey, what version are you?” It looks at the change log, and we'll see, ehh, “There's ten change sets”—that's what components of a change log, we call them change sets—“There's ten change sets in there and the database is telling me that only five had been executed.” “Oh, great. Well, I'll execute these other five.” Or it asks the database, “Hey, how many have been executed?” And it says, “Ten.”And we've got a couple of meta tables that we have in the database, real simple, ANSI SQL compliant, that store the changes that happen to the database. So, if it's a net new database, say you're running a Docker container with the database in it on your local machine, it's empty, you would run Liquibase, and it says, “Oh, hey. It's got that, you know, new database smell. I can run everything.”And so the interesting thing happens when you start pointing it at an environment that you haven't updated in a while. So, dev and test typically are going to have a lot of releases. And so there's going to be little tiny incremental changes, but when it's time to go to production, Liquibase will catch it up. And so we speak SQL to the database, if it's a NoSQL database, we'll speak their API and make the changes requested. And that's it. It's very simple in how it works.The real complex stuff is when we go a couple of inches deeper, when we start doing things like, well, reverse engineering of your database. How can I get a change log of an existing database? Because nobody starts out using Liquibase for a project. You always do it later.Corey: No, no. It's one of those things where when you're doing a project to see if it works, it's one of those, “Great, I'll run a database in some local Docker container or something just to prove that it works.” And, “Todo: fix this later.” And yeah, that todo becomes load-bearing.Robert: [laugh]. That's scary. And so, you know, we can help, like, reverse engineering an entire database schema, no problem. We also have things called quality checks. So sure, you can test your Liquibase change against an empty database and it will tell you if it's syntactically correct—you'll get an error if you need to fix something—but it doesn't enforce things like corporate standards. “Tables start with T underscore.” “Do not create a foreign key unless those columns have an ID already applied.” And that's what our quality checks does. We used to call it rules, but nobody likes rules, so we call it quality checks now.Corey: How do you avoid the trap of enumerating all the bad things you've seen happen because at some point, it feels like that's what leads to process ossification at large companies where, “Oh, we had this bad thing happen once, like, a disk filled up, so now we have a check that makes sure that all the disks are at least 20, empty.” Et cetera. Great. But you keep stacking those you have thousands and thousands and thousands of those, and even a one-line code change then has to pass through so many different tests to validate that this isn't going to cause the failure mode that happened that one time in a unicorn circumstance. How do you avoid the bloat and the creep of stuff like that?Robert: Well, let's look at what we've learned from automated testing. We certainly want more and more tests. Look, DevOp's algorithm is, “All right, we had a problem here.” [laugh]. Or SRE algorithm, I should say. “We had a problem here. What happened? What are we going to change in the future to make sure this doesn't happen?” Typically, that involves a new standard.Now, ossification occurs when a person has to enforce that standard. And what we should do is seek to have automation, have the machine do it for us. Have the humans come up and identify the problem, find a creative way to look for the issue, and then let the machine enforce it. Ossification happens in large organizations when it's people that are responsible, not the machine. The machines are great at running these things over and over again, and they're never hung over, day after Super Bowl Sunday, their kid doesn't get sick, they don't get sick. But we want humans to look at the things that we need that creative energy, that brain power on. And then the rote drudgery, hand that off to the machine.Corey: Drudgery seems like sort of a job description for a lot of us who spend time doing operation stuff.Robert: [laugh].Corey: It's drudgery and it's boring, punctuated by moments of sheer terror. On some level, you're more or less taking some of the adrenaline high of this job away from people. And you know, when it comes to databases, I'm kind of okay with that as it turns out.Robert: Yeah. Oh, yeah, we want no surprises in database-land. And that is why over the past several decades—can I say several decades since 1979?Corey: Oh, you can s—it's many decades, I'm sorry to burst your bubble on that.Robert: [laugh]. Thank you, Corey. Thank you.Corey: Five, if we're being honest. Go ahead.Robert: So, it has evolved over these many decades where change is the enemy of stability. And so we don't want change, and we want to lock these things down. And our database professionals have become changed from sentinels of data into traffic cops and TSA. And as we all know, some things slip through those. Sometimes we speed, sometimes things get snuck through TSA.And so what we need to do is create a system where it's not the people that are in charge of that; that we can set these policies and have our database professionals do more valuable things, instead of that adrenaline rush of, “Oh, my God,” how about we get the rush of solving a problem and saving the company millions of dollars? How about that rush? How about the rush of taking our old, busted on-prem databases and figure out a way to scale these up in the cloud, and also provide quick dev and test environments for our developer and test friends? These are exciting things. These are more fun, I would argue.Corey: You have a list of reference customers on your website that are awesome. In fact, we share a reference customer in the form of Ticketmaster. And I don't think that they will get too upset if I mention that based upon my work with them, at no point was I left with the impression that they played fast and loose with databases. This was something that they take very seriously because for any company that, you know, sells tickets to things you kind of need an authoritative record of who's bought what, or suddenly you don't really have a ticket-selling business anymore. You also reference customers in the form of UPS, which is important; banks in a variety of different places.Yeah, this is stuff that matters. And you support—from the looks of it—every database people can name except for Route 53. You've got RDS, you've got Redshift, you've got Postgres-squeal, you've got Oracle, Snowflake, Google's Cloud Spanner—lest people think that it winds up being just something from a legacy perspective—Cassandra, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera, CockroachDB. I could go on because you have multiple pages of these things, SAP HANA—whatever the hell that's supposed to be—Yugabyte, and so on, and so forth. And it's like, some of these, like, ‘now you're just making up animals' territory.Robert: Well, that goes back to open-source, you know, you were talking about that earlier. There is no way in hell we could have brought out support for all these database platforms without us being open-source. That is where the community aligns their goals and works to a common end. So, I'll give you an example. So, case in point, recently, let me see Yugabyte, CockroachDB, AWS Redshift, and Google Cloud Spanner.So, these are four folks that reached out to us and said, either A) “Hey, we want Liquibase to support our database,” or B) “We want you to improve the support that's already there.” And so we have what we call—which is a super creative name—the Liquibase test harness, which is just genius because it's an automated way of running a whole suite of tests against an arbitrary database. And that helped us partner with these database vendors very quickly and to identify gaps. And so there's certain things that AWS Redshift—certain objects—that AWS Redshift doesn't support, for all the right reasons. Because it's data warehouse.Okay, great. And so we didn't have to run those tests. But there were other tests that we had to run, so we create a new test for them. They actually wrote some of those tests. Our friends at Yugabyte, CockroachDB, Cloud Spanner, they wrote these extensions and they came to us and partnered with us.The only way this works is with open-source, by being open, by being transparent, and aligning what we want out of life. And so what our friends—our database friends—wanted was they wanted more tooling for their platform. We wanted to support their platform. So, by teaming up, we help the most important person, [laugh] the most important person, and that's the customer. That's it. It was not about, “Oh, money,” and all this other stuff. It was, “This makes our customers' lives easier. So, let's do it. Oop, no brainer.”Corey: There's something to be said for making people's lives easier. I do want to talk about that open-source versus commercial divide. If I Google Liquibase—which, you know, I don't know how typing addresses in browsers works anymore because search engines are so fast—I just type in Liquibase. And the first thing it spits me out to is liquibase.org, which is the Community open-source version. And there's a link there to the Pro paid version and whatnot. And I was just scrolling idly through the comparison chart to see, “Oh, so ‘Community' is just code for shitty and you're holding back advanced features.” But it really doesn't look that way. What's the deal here?Robert: Oh, no. So, Liquibase open-source project started in 2006 and Liquibase the company, the commercial entity, started after that, 2012; 2014, first deal. And so, for—Nathan Voxland started this, and Nathan was struggling. He was working at a company, and he had to have his application—of course—you know, early 2000s, J2EE—support SQL Server and Oracle and he was struggling with it. And so he open-sourced it and added more and more databases.Certainly, as open-source databases grew, obviously he added those: MySQL, Postgres. But we're never going to undo that stuff. There's rollback for free in Liquibase, we're not going to be [laugh] we're not going to be jerks and either A) pull features out or, B) even worse, make Stephen O'Grady's life awful by changing the license [laugh] so he has to write about it. He loves writing about open-source license changes. We're Apache 2.0 and so you can do whatever you want with it.And we believe that the things that make sense for a paying customer, which is database-specific objects, that makes sense. But Liquibase Community, the open-source stuff, that is built so you can go to any database. So, if you have a change log that runs against Oracle, it should be able to run against SQL Server, or MySQL, or Postgres, as long as you don't use platform-specific data types and those sorts of things. And so that's what Community is about. Community is about being able to support any database with the same change log. Pro is about helping you get to that next level of DevOps Nirvana, of reaching those four metrics that Dr. Forsgren tells us are really important.Corey: Oh, yes. You can argue with Nicole Forsgren, but then you're wrong. So, why would you ever do that?Robert: Yeah. Yeah. [laugh]. It's just—it's a sucker's bet. Don't do it. There's a reason why she's got a PhD in CS.Corey: She has been a recurring guest on this show, and I only wish she would come back more often. You and I are fun to talk to, don't get me wrong. We want unbridled intellect that is couched in just a scintillating wit, and someone is great to talk to. Sorry, we're both outclassed.Robert: Yeah, you get entertained with us; you learn with her.Corey: Exactly. And you're still entertained while doing it is the best part.Robert: [laugh]. That's the difference between Community and Pro. Look, at the end of the day, if you're an individual developer just trying to solve a problem and get done and away from the computer and go spend time with your friends and family, yeah, go use Liquibase Community. If it's something that you think can improve the rest of the organization by teaming up and taking advantage of the collaboration features? Yes, sure, let us know. We're happy to help.Corey: Now, if people wanted to become an attorney, but law school was too expensive, out of reach, too much time, et cetera, but they did have a Twitter account, very often, they'll find that they can scratch that itch by arguing online about open-source licenses. So, I want to be very clear—because those people are odious when they email me—that you are licensed under the Apache License. That is a bonafide OSI approved open-source license. It is not everyone except big cloud companies, or service providers, which basically are people dancing around—they mean Amazon. So, let's be clear. One, are you worried about Amazon launching a competitive service with a dumb name? And/or have you really been validated as a product if AWS hasn't attempted and failed to launch a competitor?Robert: [laugh]. Well, I mean, we do have a very large corporation that has embedded Liquibase into one of their flagship products, and that is Oracle. They have embedded Liquibase in SQLcl. We're tickled pink because that means that, one, yes, it does validate Liquibase is the right way to do it, but it also means more people are getting help. Now, for Oracle users, if you're just an Oracle shop, great, have fun. We think it's a great solution. But there's not a lot of those.And so we believe that if you have Liquibase, whether it's open-source or the Pro version, then you're going to be able to support all the databases, and I think that's more important than being tied to a single cloud. Also—this is just my opinion and take it for what it's worth—but if Amazon wanted to do this, well, they're not the only game in town. So, somebody else is going to want to do it, too. And, you know, I would argue even with Amazon's backing that Liquibase is a little stronger brand than anything they would come out with.Corey: This episode is sponsored by our friends at Oracle HeatWave is a new high-performance accelerator for the Oracle MySQL Database Service. Although I insist on calling it “my squirrel.” While MySQL has long been the worlds most popular open source database, shifting from transacting to analytics required way too much overhead and, ya know, work. With HeatWave you can run your OLTP and OLAP, don't ask me to ever say those acronyms again, workloads directly from your MySQL database and eliminate the time consuming data movement and integration work, while also performing 1100X faster than Amazon Aurora, and 2.5X faster than Amazon Redshift, at a third of the cost. My thanks again to Oracle Cloud for sponsoring this ridiculous nonsense. Corey: So, I want to call out though, that on some level, they have already competed with you because one of database that you do not support is DynamoDB. Let's ignore the Route 53 stuff because, okay. But the reason behind that, having worked with it myself, is that, “Oh, how do you do a schema change in DynamoDB?” The answer is that you don't because it doesn't do schemas for one—it is schemaless, which is kind of the point of it—as well as oh, you want to change the primary, or the partition, or the sort key index? Great. You need a new table because those things are immutable.So, they've solved this Gordian Knot just like Alexander the Great did by cutting through it. Like, “Oh, how do you wind up doing this?” “You don't do this. The end.” And that is certainly an approach, but there are scenarios where those were first, NoSQL is not a acceptable answer for some workloads.I know Rick [Horahan 00:26:16] is going to yell at me for that as soon as he hears me, but okay. But there are some for which a relational database is kind of a thing, and you need that. So, Dynamo isn't fit for everything. But there are other workloads where, okay, I'm going to just switch over. I'm going to basically dump all the data and add it to a new table. I can't necessarily afford to do that with anything less than maybe, you know, 20 milliseconds of downtime between table one and table two. And they're obnoxious and difficult ways to do it, but for everything else, you do kind of need to make ALTER TABLE changes from time to time as you go through the build and release process.Robert: Yeah. Well, we certainly have plans for DynamoDB support. We are working our way through all the NoSQLs. Started with Mongo, and—Corey: Well, back that out a second then for me because there's something I'm clearly not grasping because it's my understanding, DynamoDB is schemaless. You can put whatever you want into various arbitrary fields. How would Liquibase work with something like that?Robert: Well, that's something I struggled with. I had the same question. Like, “Dude, really, we're a schema change tool. Why would we work with a schemaless database?” And so what happened was a soon-to-be friend of ours in Europe had reached out to me and said, “I built an extension for MongoDB in Liquibase. Can we open-source this, and can y'all take care of the care and feeding of this?” And I said, “Absolutely. What does it do?” [laugh].And so I looked at it and it turns out that it focuses on collections and generating data for test. So, you're right about schemaless because these are just documents and we're not going to go through every single document and change the structure, we're just going to have the application create a new doc and the new format. Maybe there's a conversion log logic built into the app, who knows. But it's the database professionals that have to apply these collections—you know, indices; that's what they call them in Mongo-land: collections. And so being able to apply these across all environments—dev, test, production—and have consistency, that's important.Now, what was really interesting is that this came from MasterCard. So, this engineer had a consulting business and worked for MasterCard. And they had a problem, and they said, “Hey, can you fix this with Liquibase?” And he said, “Sure, no problem.” And he built it.So, that's why if you go to the MongoDB—the liquibase-mongodb repository in our Liquibase org, you'll see that MasterCard has the copyright on all that code. Still Apache 2.0. But for me, that was the validation we needed to start expanding to other things: Dynamo, Couch. And same—Corey: Oh, yeah. For a lot of contributors, there's a contributor license process you can go through, assign copyright. For everything else, there's MasterCard.Robert: Yeah. Well, we don't do that. Look, you know, we certainly have a code of conduct with our community, but we don't have a signing copyright and that kind of stuff. Because that's baked into Apache 2.0. So, why would I want to take somebody's ability to get credit and magical internet points and increase the rep by taking that away? That's just rude.Corey: The problem I keep smacking myself into is just looking at how the entire database space across the board goes, it feels like it's built on lock-in, it's built on it is super finicky to work with, and it generally feels like, okay, great. You take something like Postgres-squeal or whatever it is you want to run your database on, yeah, you could theoretically move it a bunch of other places, but moving databases is really hard. Back when I was at my last, “Real job,” quote-unquote, years ago, we were late to the game; we migrated the entire site from EC2 Classic into a VPC, and the biggest pain in the ass with all of that was the RDS instance. Because we had to quiesce the database so it would stop taking writes; we would then do snapshot it, shut it down, and then restore a new database from that RDS snapshot.How long does it take, at least in those days? That is left as an experiment for the reader. So, we booked a four hour maintenance window under the fear that would not be enough. It completed in 45 minutes. So okay, there's that. Sparked the thing up and everything else was tested and good to go. And yay. Okay.It took a tremendous amount of planning, a tremendous amount of work, and that wasn't moving it very far. It is the only time I've done a late-night deploy, where not a single thing went wrong. Until I was on the way home and the Uber driver sideswiped a city vehicle. So, there we go—Robert: [laugh].Corey: —that's the one. But everything else was flawless on this because we planned these things out. But imagine moving to a different provider. Oh, forget it. Or imagine moving to a different database engine? That's good. Tell another one.Robert: Well, those are the problems that we want our database professionals to solve. We do not want them to be like janitors at an elementary school, cleaning up developer throw-up with sawdust. The issue that you're describing, that's a one time event. This is something that doesn't happen very often. You need hands on the keyboard, you want people there to look for problems.If you can take these database releases away from those folks and automate them safely—you can have safety and speed—then that frees up their time to do these other herculean tasks, these other feats of strength that they're far better at. There is no silver bullet panacea for database issues. All we're trying to do is take about 70% of DBAs time and free it up to do the fun stuff that you described. There are people that really enjoy that, and we want to free up their time so they can do that. Moving to another platform, going from the data center to the cloud, these sorts of things, this is what we want a human on; we don't want them updating a column three times in a row because dev couldn't get it right. Let's just give them the keys and make sure they stay in their lane.Corey: There's something glorious about being able to do that. I wish that there were more commonly appreciated ways of addressing those pains, rather than, “Oh, we're going to sell you something big and enterprise-y and it's going to add a bunch of process and not work out super well for you.” You integrate with existing CI/CD systems reasonably well, as best I can tell because the nice thing about CI/CD—and by nice I mean awful—is that there is no consensus. Every pipeline you see, in a release engineering process inherently becomes this beautiful bespoke unicorn.Robert: Mm-hm. Yeah. And we have to. We have to integrate with whatever CI/CD they have in place. And we do not want customers to just run Liquibase by itself. We want them to integrate it with whatever is driving that application deployment.We're Switzerland when it comes to databases, and CI/CD. And I certainly have my favorite of those, and it's primarily based on who bought me drinks at the last conference, but we cannot go into somebody's house and start rearranging the furniture. That's just rude. If they're deploying the app a certain way, what we tell that customer is, “Hey, we're just going to have that CI/CD tool call Liquibase to update the database. This should be an atomic unit of deployment.” And it should be hidden from the person that pushes that shiny button or the automation that does it.Corey: I wish that one day that you could automate all of the button pushing, but the thing that always annoyed me in release engineering was the, “Oh, and here's where we stop to have a human press the button.” And I get it. That stuff's scary for some folks, but at the same time, this is the nature of reality. So, you're not going to be able to technology your way around people. At least not successfully and not for very long.Robert: It's about trust. You have to earn that database professional's trust because if something goes wrong, blaming Liquibase doesn't go very far. In that company, they're going to want a person [laugh] who has a badge to—with a throat to choke. And so I've seen this pattern over and over again.And this happened at our first customer. Major, major, big, big, big bank, and this was on the consumer side. They were doing their first production push, and they wanted us ready. Not on the call, but ready if there was an issue they needed to escalate and get us to help them out. And so my VP of Engineering and me, we took it. Great. Got VP of engineering and CTO. Right on.And so Kevin and I, we stayed home, stayed sober [laugh], you know—a lot of places to party in Austin; we fought that temptation—and so we stayed and I'm texting with Kevin, back and forth. “Did you get a call?” “No, I didn't get a call.” It was Friday night. Saturday rolls around. Sunday. “Did you get a—what's going on?” [laugh].Monday, we're like, “Hey. Everything, okay? Did you push to the next weekend?” They're like, “Oh, no. We did. It went great. We forgot to tell you.” [laugh]. But here's what happened. The DBAs push the Liquibase ‘make it go' button, and then they said, “Uh-Oh.” And we're like, “What do you mean, uh-oh?” They said, “Well, something went wrong.” “Well, what went wrong?” “Well, it was too fast.” [laugh]. Something—no way. And so they went through the whole thing—Corey: That was my downtime when I supposed to be compiling.Robert: Yeah. So, they went through the whole thing to verify every single change set. Okay, so that was weekend one. And then they go to weekend two, they do it the same thing. All right, all right. Building trust.By week four, they called a meeting with the release team. And they said, “Hey, process change. We're no longer going to be on these calls. You are going to push the Liquibase button. Now, if you want to integrate it with your CI/CD, go right ahead, but that's not my problem.” Dev—or, the release team is tier one; dev is tier two; we—DBAs—are tier three support, but we'll call you because we'll know something went wrong. And to this day, it's all automated.And so you have to earn trust to get people to give that up. Once they have trust and you really—it's based on empathy. You have to understand how terrible [laugh] they are sometimes treated, and to actively take care of them, realize the problems they're struggling with, and when you earn that trust, then and only then will they allow automation. But it's hard, but it's something you got to do.Corey: You mentioned something a minute ago that I want to focus on a little bit more closely, specifically that you're in Austin. Seems like that's a popular choice lately. You've got companies that are relocating their headquarters there, presumably for tax purposes. Oracle's there, Tesla's there. Great. I mean, from my perspective, terrific because it gets a number of notably annoying CEOs out of my backyard. But what's going on? Why is Austin on this meteoric rise and how'd it get there?Robert: Well, a lot of folks—overnight success, 40 years in the making, I guess. But what a lot of people don't realize is that, one, we had a pretty vibrant tech hub prior to all this. It all started with MCC, Microcomputer Consortium, which in the '80s, we were afraid of the Japanese taking over and so we decided to get a bunch of companies together, and Admiral Bobby Inman who was director planted it in Austin. And that's where it started. You certainly have other folks that have a huge impact, obviously, Michael Dell, Austin Ventures, a whole host of folks that have really leaned in on tech in Austin, but it actually started before that.So, there was a time where Willie Nelson was in Nashville and was just fed up with RCA Records. They would not release his albums because he wanted to change his sound. And so he had some nice friends at Atlantic Records that said, “Willie, we got this. Go to New York, use our studio, cut an album, we'll fix it up.” And so he cut an album called Shotgun Willie, famous for having “Whiskey River” which is what he uses to open and close every show.But that album sucked as far as sales. It's a good album, I like it. But it didn't sell except for one place in America: in Austin, Texas. It sold more copies in Austin than anywhere else. And so Willie was like, “I need to go check this out.”And so he shows up in Austin and sees a bunch of rednecks and hippies hanging out together, really geeking out on music. It was a great vibe. And then he calls, you know, Kris, and Waylon, and Merle, and say, “Come on down.” And so what happened here was a bunch of people really wanted to geek out on this new type of country music, outlaw country. And it started a pattern where people just geek out on stuff they really like.So, same thing with Austin film. You got Robert Rodriguez, you got Richard Linklater, and Slackers, his first movie, that's why I moved to Austin. And I got a job at Les Amis—a coffee shop that's closed—because it had three scenes in that. There was a whole scene of people that just really wanted to make different types of films. And we see that with software, we see that with film, we see it with fashion.And it just seems that Austin is the place where if you're really into something, you're going to find somebody here that really wants to get into it with you, whether it's board gaming, D&D, noise punk, whatever. And that's really comforting. I think it's the community that's just welcoming. And I just hope that we can continue that creativity, that sense of community, and that we don't have large corporations that are coming in and just taking from the system. I hope they inject more.I think Oracle's done a really good job; their new headquarters is gorgeous, they've done some really good things with the city, doing a land swap, I think it was forty acres for nine acres. They coughed up forty for nine. And it was nine acres the city wasn't even using. Great. So, I think they're being good citizens. I think Tesla's been pretty cool with building that factory where it is. I hope more come. I hope they catch what is ever in the water and the breakfast tacos in Austin.Corey: [laugh]. I certainly look forward to this pandemic ending; I can come over and find out for myself. I'm looking forward to it. I always enjoyed my time there, I just wish I got to spend more of it.Robert: How many folks from Duckbill Group are in Austin now?Corey: One at the moment. Tim Banks. And the challenge, of course, is that if you look across the board, there really aren't that many places that have more than one employee. For example, our operations person, Megan, is here in San Francisco and so is Jesse DeRose, our manager of cloud economics. But my business partner is in Portland; we have people scattered all over the country.It's kind of fun having a fully-distributed company. We started this way, back when that was easy. And because all right, travel is easy; we'll just go and visit whenever we need to. But there's no central office, which I think is sort of the dangerous part of full remote because then you have this idea of second-class citizens hanging out in one part of the country and then they go out to lunch together and that's where the real decisions get made. And then you get caught up to speed. It definitely fosters a writing culture.Robert: Yeah. When we went to remote work, our lease was up. We just didn't renew. And now we have expanded hiring outside of Austin, we have folks in the Ukraine, Poland, Brazil, more and more coming. We even have folks that are moving out of Austin to places like Minnesota and Virginia, moving back home where their family is located.And that is wonderful. But we are getting together as a company in January. We're also going to, instead of having an office, we're calling it a ‘Liquibase Lounge.' So, there's a number of retail places that didn't survive, and so we're going to take one of those spots and just make a little hangout place so that people can come in. And we also want to open it up for the community as well.But it's very important—and we learned this from our friends at GitLab and their culture. We really studied how they do it, how they've been successful, and it is an awareness of those lunch meetings where the decisions are made. And it is saying, “Nope, this is great we've had this conversation. We need to have this conversation again. Let's bring other people in.” And that's how we're doing at Liquibase, and so far it seems to work.Corey: I'm looking forward to seeing what happens, once this whole pandemic ends, and how things continue to thrive. We're long past due for a startup center that isn't San Francisco. The whole thing is based on the idea of disruption. “Oh, we're disruptive.” “Yes, we're so disruptive, we've taken a job that can be done from literally anywhere with internet access and created a land crunch in eight square miles, located in an earthquake zone.” Genius, simply genius.Robert: It's a shame that we had to have such a tragedy to happen to fix that.Corey: Isn't that the truth?Robert: It really is. But the toothpaste is out of the tube. You ain't putting that back in. But my bet on the next Tech Hub: Kansas City. That town is cool, it has one hundred percent Google Fiber all throughout, great university. Kauffman Fellows, I believe, is based there, so VC folks are trained there. I believe so; I hope I'm not wrong with that. I know Kauffman Foundation is there. But look, there's something happening in that town. And so if you're a buy low, sell high kind of person, come check us out in Austin. I'm not trying to dissuade anybody from moving to Austin; I'm not one of those people. But if the housing prices [laugh] you don't like them, check out Kansas City, and get that two-gig fiber for peanuts. Well, $75 worth of peanuts.Corey: Robert, I want to thank you for taking the time to speak with me so extensively about Liquibase, about how awesome RedMonk is, about Austin and so many other topics. If people want to learn more, where can they find you?Robert: Well, I think the best place to find us right now is in AWS Marketplace. So—Corey: Now, hand on a second. When you say the best place for anything being the AWS Marketplace, I'm naturally a little suspicious. Tell me more.Robert: [laugh]. Well, best is, you know, it's—[laugh].Corey: It is a place that is there and people can find you through it. All right, then.Robert: I have a list. I have a list. But the first one I'm going to mention is AWS Marketplace. And so that's a really easy way, especially if you're taking advantage of the EDP, Enterprise Discount Program. That's helpful. Burn down those dollars, get a discount, et cetera, et cetera. Now, of course, you can go to liquibase.com, download a trial. Or you can find us on Github, github.com/liquibase. Of course, talking smack to us on Twitter is always appreciated.Corey: And we will, of course, include links to that in the [show notes 00:46:37]. Robert Reeves, CTO and co-founder of Liquibase. I'm Cloud Economist Corey Quinn, and this is Screaming in the Cloud. If you've enjoyed this podcast, please leave a five-star review on your podcast platform of choice along with an angry comment complaining about how Liquibase doesn't support your database engine of choice, which will quickly be rendered obsolete by the open-source community.Corey: If your AWS bill keeps rising and your blood pressure is doing the same, then you need The Duckbill Group. We help companies fix their AWS bill by making it smaller and less horrifying. The Duckbill Group works for you, not AWS. We tailor recommendations to your business and we get to the point. Visit duckbillgroup.com to get started.Announcer: This has been a HumblePod production. Stay humble.

In the previous episodes, we looked at the rise of patents and software and their impact on the nascent computer industry. But a copyright is a right. And that right can be given to others in whole or in part. We have all benefited from software where the right to copy was waved and it's shaped the computing industry as much, if not more, than proprietary software. The term Free and Open Source Software (FOSS for short) is a blanket term to describe software that's free and/or whose source code is distributed for varying degrees of tinkeration. It's a movement and a choice. Programmers can commercialize our software. But we can also distribute it free of copy protections. And there are about as many licenses as there are opinions about what is unique, types of software, underlying components, etc. But given that many choose to commercialize their work products, how did a movement arise that specifically didn't? The early computers were custom-built to perform various tasks. Then computers and software were bought as a bundle and organizations could edit the source code. But as operating systems and languages evolved and businesses wanted their own custom logic, a cottage industry for software started to emerge. We see this in every industry - as an innovation becomes more mainstream, the expectations and needs of customers progress at an accelerated rate. That evolution took about 20 years to happen following World War II and by 1969, the software industry had evolved to the point that IBM faced antitrust charges for bundling software with hardware. And after that, the world of software would never be the same. The knock-on effect was that in the 1970s, Bell Labs pushed away from MULTICS and developed Unix, which AT&T then gave away as compiled code to researchers. And so proprietary software was a growing industry, which AT&T began charging for commercial licenses as the bushy hair and sideburns of the 70s were traded for the yuppy culture of the 80s. In the meantime, software had become copyrightable due to the findings of CONTU and the codifying of the Copyright Act of 1976. Bill Gates sent his infamous “Open Letter to Hobbyists” in 1976 as well, defending the right to charge for software in an exploding hobbyist market. And then Apple v Franklin led to the ability to copyright compiled code in 1983. There was a growing divide between those who'd been accustomed to being able to copy software freely and edit source code and those who in an up-market sense just needed supported software that worked - and were willing to pay for it, seeing the benefits that automation was having on the capabilities to scale an organization. And yet there were plenty who considered copyright software immoral. One of the best remembered is Richard Stallman, or RMS for short. Steven Levy described Stallman as “The Last of the True Hackers” in his epic book “Hackers: Heroes of the Computer Revolution.” In the book, he describes the MIT Stallman joined where there weren't passwords and we didn't yet pay for software and then goes through the emergence of the LISP language and the divide that formed between Richard Greenblatt, who wanted to keep The Hacker Ethic alive and those who wanted to commercialize LISP. The Hacker Ethic was born from the young MIT students who freely shared information and ideas with one another and help push forward computing in an era they thought was purer in a way, as though it hadn't yet been commercialized. The schism saw the death of the hacker culture and two projects came out of Stallman's technical work: emacs, which is a text editor that is still included freely in most modern Unix variants and the GNU project. Here's the thing, MIT was sitting on patents for things like core memory and thrived in part due to the commercialization or weaponization of the technology they were producing. The industry was maturing and since the days when kings granted patents, maturing technology would be commercialized using that system. And so Stallman's nostalgia gave us the GNU project, born from an idea that the industry moved faster in the days when information was freely shared and that knowledge was meant to be set free. For example, he wanted the source code for a printer driver so he could fix it and was told it was protected by an NDAQ and so couldn't have it. A couple of years later he announced GNU, a recursive acronym for GNU's Not Unix. The next year he built a compiler called GCC and the next year released the GNU Manifesto, launching the Free Software Foundation, often considered the charter of the free and open source software movement. Over the next few years as he worked on GNU, he found emacs had a license, GCC had a license, and the rising tide of free software was all distributed with unique licenses. And so the GNU General Public License was born in 1989 - allowing organizations and individuals to copy, distribute, and modify software covered under the license but with a small change, that if someone modified the source, they had to release that with any binaries they distributed as well. The University of California, Berkley had benefited from a lot of research grants over the years and many of their works could be put into the public domain. They had brought Unix in from Bell Labs in the 70s and Sun cofounder and Java author Bill Joy worked under professor Fabry, who brought Unix in. After working on a Pascal compiler that Unix coauthor Ken Thompson left for Berkeley, Joy and others started working on what would become BSD, not exactly a clone of Unix but with interchangeable parts. They bolted on the OSI model to get networking and through the 80s as Joy left for Sun and DEC got ahold of that source code there were variants and derivatives like FreeBSD, NetBSD, Darwin, and others. The licensing was pretty permissive and simple to understand: Copyright (c) . All rights reserved. Redistribution and use in source and binary forms are permitted provided that the above copyright notice and this paragraph are duplicated in all such forms and that any documentation, advertising materials, and other materials related to such distribution and use acknowledge that the software was developed by the . The name of the may not be used to endorse or promote products derived from this software without specific prior written permission. THIS SOFTWARE IS PROVIDED ``AS IS AND WITHOUT ANY EXPRESS OR IMPLIED WARRANTIES, INCLUDING, WITHOUT LIMITATION, THE IMPLIED WARRANTIES OF MERCHANTABILITY AND FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE. By 1990 the Board of Regents at Berkley accepted a four clause BSD license that spawned a class of licenses. While it's matured into other formats like a 0 clause license it's one of my favorites as it is truest to the FOSS cause. And the 90s gave us the Apache License, from the Apache Group, loosely based on the BSD License and then in 2004 leaning away from that with the release of the Apache License 2 that was more compatible with the GPL license. Given the modding nature of Apache they didn't require derivative works to also be open sourced but did require leaving the license in place for unmodified parts of the original work. GNU never really caught on as an OS in the mainstream, although a collection of tools did. The main reason the OS didn't go far is probably because Linus Torvalds started releasing prototypes of his Linux operating system in 1991. Torvalds used The GNU General Public License v2, or GPLv2 to license his kernel, having been inspired by a talk given by Stallman. GPL 2 had been released in 1991 and something else was happening as we turned into the 1990s: the Internet. Suddenly the software projects being worked on weren't just distributed on paper tape or floppy disks; they could be downloaded. The rise of Linux and Apache coincided and so many a web server and site ran that LAMP stack with MySQL and PHP added in there. All open source in varying flavors of what open source was at the time. And collaboration in the industry was at an all-time high. We got the rise of teams of developers who would edit and contribute to projects. One of these was a tool for another aspect of the Internet, email. It was called popclient, Here Eric S Raymond, or ESR for short, picked it up and renamed it to fetchmail, releasing it as an open source project. Raymond presented on his work at the Linux Congress in 1997, expanded that work into an essay and then the essay into “The Cathedral and the Bazaar” where bazaar is meant to be like an open market. That inspired many to open source their own works, including the Netscape team, which resulted in Mozilla and so Firefox - and another book called “Freeing the Source: The Story of Mozilla” from O'Reilly. By then, Tim O'Reilly was a huge proponent of this free or source code available type of software as it was known. And companies like VA Linux were growing fast. And many wanted to congeal around some common themes. So in 1998, Christine Peterson came up with the term “open source” in a meeting with Raymond, Todd Anderson, Larry Augustin, Sam Ockman, and Jon “Maddog” Hall, author of the first book I read on Linux. Free software it may or may not be but open source as a term quickly proliferated throughout the lands. By 1998 there was this funny little company called Tivo that was doing a public beta of a little box with a Linux kernel running on it that bootstrapped a pretty GUI to record TV shows on a hard drive on the box and play them back. You remember when we had to wait for a TV show, right? Or back when some super-fancy VCRs could record a show at a specific time to VHS (but mostly failed for one reason or another)? Well, Tivo meant to fix that. We did an episode on them a couple of years ago but we skipped the term Tivoization and the impact they had on GPL. As the 90s came to a close, VA Linux and Red Hat went through great IPOs, bringing about an era where open source could mean big business. And true to the cause, they shared enough stock with Linus Torvalds to make him a millionaire as well. And IBM pumped a billion dollars into open source, with Sun moving to open source openoffice.org. Now, what really happened there might be that by then Microsoft had become too big for anyone to effectively compete with and so they all tried to pivot around to find a niche, but it still benefited the world and open source in general. By Y2K there was a rapidly growing number of vendors out there putting Linux kernels onto embedded devices. TiVo happened to be one of the most visible. Some in the Linux community felt like they were being taken advantage of because suddenly you had a vendor making changes to the kernel but their changes only worked on their hardware and they blocked users from modifying the software. So The Free Software Foundation updated GPL, bundling in some other minor changes and we got the GNU General Public License (Version 3) in 2006. There was a lot more in GPL 3, given that so many organizations were involved in open source software by then. Here, the full license text and original copyright notice had to be included along with a statement of significant changes and making source code available with binaries. And commercial Unix variants struggled with SGI going bankrupt in 2006 and use of AIX and HP-UX Many of these open source projects flourished because of version control systems and the web. SourceForge was created by VA Software in 1999 and is a free service that can be used to host open source projects. Concurrent Versions System, or CVS had been written by Dick Grune back in 1986 and quickly became a popular way to have multiple developers work on projects, merging diffs of code repositories. That gave way to git in the hearts of many a programmer after Linus Torvalds wrote a new versioning system called git in 2005. GitHub came along in 2008 and was bought by Microsoft in 2018 for 2018. Seeing a need for people to ask questions about coding, Stack Overflow was created by Jeff Atwood and Joel Spolsky in 2008. Now, we could trade projects on one of the versioning tools, get help with projects or find smaller snippets of sample code on Stack Overflow, or even Google random things (and often find answers on Stack Overflow). And so social coding became a large part of many a programmers day. As did dependency management, given how many tools are used to compile a modern web app or app. I often wonder how much of the code in many of our favorite tools is actually original. Another thought is that in an industry dominated by white males, it's no surprise that we often gloss over previous contributions. It was actually Grace Hopper's A-2 compiler that was the first software that was released freely with source for all the world to adapt. Sure, you needed a UNIVAC to run it, and so it might fall into the mainframe era and with the emergence of minicomputers we got Digital Equipment's DECUS for sharing software, leading in part to the PDP-inspired need for source that Stallman was so adamant about. General Motors developed SHARE Operating System for the IBM 701 and made it available through the IBM user group called SHARE. The ARPAnet was free if you could get to it. TeX from Donald Knuth was free. The BASIC distribution from Dartmouth was academic and yet Microsoft sold it for up to $100,000 a license (see Commodore ). So it's no surprise that people avoided paying upstarts like Microsoft for their software or that it took until the late 70s to get copyright legislation and common law. But Hopper's contributions were kinda' like open source v1, the work from RMS to Linux was kinda' like open source v2, and once the term was coined and we got the rise of a name and more social coding platforms from SourceForge to git, we moved into a third version of the FOSS movement. Today, some tools are free, some are open source, some are free as in beer (as you find in many a gist), some are proprietary. All are valid. Today there are also about as many licenses as there are programmers putting software out there. And here's the thing, they're all valid. You see, every creator has the right to restrict the ability to copy their software. After all, it's their intellectual property. Anyone who chooses to charge for their software is well within their rights. Anyone choosing to eschew commercialization also has that right. And every derivative in between. I wouldn't judge anyone based on any model those choose. Just as those who distribute proprietary software shouldn't be judged for retaining their rights to do so. Why not just post things we want to make free? Patents, copyrights, and trademarks are all a part of intellectual property - but as developers of tools we also need to limit our liability as we're probably not out there buying large errors and omissions insurance policies for every script or project we make freely available. Also, we might want to limit the abuse of our marks. For example, Linus Torvalds monitors the use of the Linux mark through the Linux Mark Institute. Apparently some William Dell Croce Jr tried to register the Linux trademark in 1995 and Torvalds had to sue to get it back. He provides use of the mark using a free and perpetual global sublicense. Given that his wife won the Finnish karate championship six times I wouldn't be messing with his trademarks. Thank you to all the creators out there. Thank you for your contributions. And thank you for tuning in to this episode of the History of Computing Podcast. Have a great day.

Tesseract (software) From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia Tesseract is an optical character recognition engine for various operating systems. It is free software, released under the Apache License. Originally developed by Hewlett-Packard as proprietary software in the 1980s, it was released as open source in 2005 and development has been sponsored by Google since 2006. In 2006, Tesseract was considered one of the most accurate open-source OCR engines then available. $ tesseract -l eng english-page.jpg english $ tesseract -l nld dutch-page.jpg dutch $ ls dutch.txt english.txt

Successful open-source projects all seem to struggle with one major gorilla. Who it is, and what their options are now. Special Guests: Drew DeVore and Jonathan Corbet.

ASF, Apache license, decentralization. Hadrian Zbarcea is a champion for open source for the last 15 years. He is a member and VP at the Apache Software Foundation. He is the founder of Apifocal and has involvement in designing massive scale messaging and integration platforms for many organizations. Hadrian is passionate about leveraging open source technologies to build services that streamline access to essential and relevant data. Hosts Doc Searls and Jonathan Bennett discuss with Hadrian the open-source culture and "The Apache Way." They also discuss the value of asynchronous email and decentralization and why we should strive to have more asynchronous and decentralized open-source options. Hosts: Doc Searls and Jonathan Bennett Guest: Hadrian Zbarcea Download or subscribe to this show at https://twit.tv/shows/floss-weekly Think your open source project should be on FLOSS Weekly? Email floss@twit.tv. Thanks to Lullabot's Jeff Robbins, web designer and musician, for our theme music. Sponsors: Linode.com/twit LastPass.com/twit

ASF, Apache license, decentralization. Hadrian Zbarcea is a champion for open source for the last 15 years. He is a member and VP at the Apache Software Foundation. He is the founder of Apifocal and has involvement in designing massive scale messaging and integration platforms for many organizations. Hadrian is passionate about leveraging open source technologies to build services that streamline access to essential and relevant data. Hosts Doc Searls and Jonathan Bennett discuss with Hadrian the open-source culture and "The Apache Way." They also discuss the value of asynchronous email and decentralization and why we should strive to have more asynchronous and decentralized open-source options. Hosts: Doc Searls and Jonathan Bennett Guest: Hadrian Zbarcea Download or subscribe to this show at https://twit.tv/shows/floss-weekly Think your open source project should be on FLOSS Weekly? Email floss@twit.tv. Thanks to Lullabot's Jeff Robbins, web designer and musician, for our theme music. Sponsors: Linode.com/twit LastPass.com/twit

ASF, Apache license, decentralization. Hadrian Zbarcea is a champion for open source for the last 15 years. He is a member and VP at the Apache Software Foundation. He is the founder of Apifocal and has involvement in designing massive scale messaging and integration platforms for many organizations. Hadrian is passionate about leveraging open source technologies to build services that streamline access to essential and relevant data. Hosts Doc Searls and Jonathan Bennett discuss with Hadrian the open-source culture and "The Apache Way." They also discuss the value of asynchronous email and decentralization and why we should strive to have more asynchronous and decentralized open-source options. Hosts: Doc Searls and Jonathan Bennett Guest: Hadrian Zbarcea Download or subscribe to this show at https://twit.tv/shows/floss-weekly Think your open source project should be on FLOSS Weekly? Email floss@twit.tv. Thanks to Lullabot's Jeff Robbins, web designer and musician, for our theme music. Sponsors: Linode.com/twit LastPass.com/twit

ASF, Apache license, decentralization. Hadrian Zbarcea is a champion for open source for the last 15 years. He is a member and VP at the Apache Software Foundation. He is the founder of Apifocal and has involvement in designing massive scale messaging and integration platforms for many organizations. Hadrian is passionate about leveraging open source technologies to build services that streamline access to essential and relevant data. Hosts Doc Searls and Jonathan Bennett discuss with Hadrian the open-source culture and "The Apache Way." They also discuss the value of asynchronous email and decentralization and why we should strive to have more asynchronous and decentralized open-source options. Hosts: Doc Searls and Jonathan Bennett Guest: Hadrian Zbarcea Download or subscribe to this show at https://twit.tv/shows/floss-weekly Think your open source project should be on FLOSS Weekly? Email floss@twit.tv. Thanks to Lullabot's Jeff Robbins, web designer and musician, for our theme music. Sponsors: Linode.com/twit LastPass.com/twit

ASF, Apache license, decentralization. Hadrian Zbarcea is a champion for open source for the last 15 years. He is a member and VP at the Apache Software Foundation. He is the founder of Apifocal and has involvement in designing massive scale messaging and integration platforms for many organizations. Hadrian is passionate about leveraging open source technologies to build services that streamline access to essential and relevant data. Hosts Doc Searls and Jonathan Bennett discuss with Hadrian the open-source culture and "The Apache Way." They also discuss the value of asynchronous email and decentralization and why we should strive to have more asynchronous and decentralized open-source options. Hosts: Doc Searls and Jonathan Bennett Guest: Hadrian Zbarcea Download or subscribe to this show at https://twit.tv/shows/floss-weekly Think your open source project should be on FLOSS Weekly? Email floss@twit.tv. Thanks to Lullabot's Jeff Robbins, web designer and musician, for our theme music. Sponsors: Linode.com/twit LastPass.com/twit

ASF, Apache license, decentralization. Hadrian Zbarcea is a champion for open source for the last 15 years. He is a member and VP at the Apache Software Foundation. He is the founder of Apifocal and has involvement in designing massive scale messaging and integration platforms for many organizations. Hadrian is passionate about leveraging open source technologies to build services that streamline access to essential and relevant data. Hosts Doc Searls and Jonathan Bennett discuss with Hadrian the open-source culture and "The Apache Way." They also discuss the value of asynchronous email and decentralization and why we should strive to have more asynchronous and decentralized open-source options. Hosts: Doc Searls and Jonathan Bennett Guest: Hadrian Zbarcea Download or subscribe to this show at https://twit.tv/shows/floss-weekly Think your open source project should be on FLOSS Weekly? Email floss@twit.tv. Thanks to Lullabot's Jeff Robbins, web designer and musician, for our theme music. Sponsors: Linode.com/twit LastPass.com/twit

ASF, Apache license, decentralization. Hadrian Zbarcea is a champion for open source for the last 15 years. He is a member and VP at the Apache Software Foundation. He is the founder of Apifocal and has involvement in designing massive scale messaging and integration platforms for many organizations. Hadrian is passionate about leveraging open source technologies to build services that streamline access to essential and relevant data. Hosts Doc Searls and Jonathan Bennett discuss with Hadrian the open-source culture and "The Apache Way." They also discuss the value of asynchronous email and decentralization and why we should strive to have more asynchronous and decentralized open-source options. Hosts: Doc Searls and Jonathan Bennett Guest: Hadrian Zbarcea Download or subscribe to this show at https://twit.tv/shows/floss-weekly Think your open source project should be on FLOSS Weekly? Email floss@twit.tv. Thanks to Lullabot's Jeff Robbins, web designer and musician, for our theme music. Sponsors: Linode.com/twit LastPass.com/twit

ASF, Apache license, decentralization. Hadrian Zbarcea is a champion for open source for the last 15 years. He is a member and VP at the Apache Software Foundation. He is the founder of Apifocal and has involvement in designing massive scale messaging and integration platforms for many organizations. Hadrian is passionate about leveraging open source technologies to build services that streamline access to essential and relevant data. Hosts Doc Searls and Jonathan Bennett discuss with Hadrian the open-source culture and "The Apache Way." They also discuss the value of asynchronous email and decentralization and why we should strive to have more asynchronous and decentralized open-source options. Hosts: Doc Searls and Jonathan Bennett Guest: Hadrian Zbarcea Download or subscribe to this show at https://twit.tv/shows/floss-weekly Think your open source project should be on FLOSS Weekly? Email floss@twit.tv. Thanks to Lullabot's Jeff Robbins, web designer and musician, for our theme music. Sponsors: Linode.com/twit LastPass.com/twit

Link to bioRxiv paper: http://biorxiv.org/cgi/content/short/2020.09.16.299495v1?rss=1 Authors: Hart, R., Prlic, A. Abstract: Motivation Access to biological sequence data, such as genome, transcript, or protein sequence, is at the core of many bioinformatics analysis workflows. The National Center for Biotechnology Information (NCBI), Ensembl, and other sequence database maintainers provide methods to access sequences through network connections. For many users, the convenience and currency of remotely managed data are compelling, and the network latency is non-consequential. However, for high-throughput and clinical applications, local sequence collections are essential for performance, stability, privacy, and reproducibility. Results Here we describe SeqRepo, a novel system for building a local, high-performance, non-redundant collection of biological sequences. SeqRepo enables clients to use primary database identifiers and several digests to identify sequences and sequence alises. SeqRepo provides a native Python interface and a REST interface, which can run locally and enables access from other programming languages. SeqRepo also provides an alternative REST interface based on the GA4GH refget protocol. SeqRepo provides fast random access to sequence slices. We provide results that demonstrate that a local SeqRepo sequence collection yields significant performance benefits of up to 1300-fold over remote sequence collections. In our use case for a variant validation and normalization pipeline, SeqRepo improved throughput 50-fold relative to use with remote sequences. SeqRepo may be used with any species or sequence type. Regular snapshots of Human sequence collections are available. It is often convenient or necessary to use a computed digest as a sequence identifier. For example, a digest-based identifier may be used to refer to proprietary reference genomes or segments of a graph genome, for which conventional identifiers will not be available. Here we also introduce a convention for the application of the SHA-512 hashing algorithm with Base64 encoding to generate URL-safe identifiers. This convention, sha512t24u, combines a fast digest mechanism with a space-efficient representation that can be used for any object. Our report includes an analysis of timing and collision probabilities for sha512t24u. SeqRepo enables clients to use sha512t24u as identifiers, thereby seamlessly integrating public and private sequence sets. Availability SeqRepo is released under the Apache License 2.0 and is available on github and PyPi. Docker images and database snapshots are also available. See https://github.com/biocommons/biocommons.seqrepo . Copy rights belong to original authors. Visit the link for more info

VB.NET "Not along for the ride" in .NET Core and .NET 5. Eject Mailman, eject.For those of you that were hoping for VB.NET to get some love in .NET 5, it doesn't look like it's going to happen. This is of course causing some consternation; but overall I get it. Visual Basic was written for a time when we really thought we could make a language look like english and not be laughed out of the room. Now we know better. VB.NET has done good things; and I know a few products even today that are still written in VB.NET; but look, it's time.Just look at the flowers, VB.NET.Visual Studio 2019 version 16.7 Preview 6 is now availableMost of us are probably on the Visual Studio stable channel, but if you like to get the previews (they're free), you can install them. Interesting to me is that this version adds support for XCode 11.6? I don't even know what this means but here we are and that sounds cool as $#&@.Microsoft .NET team is hiringYou can apply to become a Program Manager II on the .NET team. I thought about applying, but realized "allowing everyone to be their authentic selves" probably doesn't mean "Making fun of Microsoft on a daily basis". Seriously though, if you can move to Redmond, you should think about applying. .NET is entering its best years; and Microsoft is one of the better companies to work for.Microsoft's Roslyn team (the compiler for .NET) released a blogpost detailing productivity improvements:The Roslyn team released a new blog post detailing tooling fixes that are in Visual Studio 2019 16.6 that you may have missed.My favorites are the DateTime formatting changes. You no longer have to Google which combination of MMDDYYYY gets you what you want; they now provide that information in the intellisense when you use DateTime.ToString(). This is a long overdue feature and I'm glad they added it. Their code refactorings are getting better, though I still prefer Jetbrains Resharper..NET Foundation "State of the Foundation"The .NET Foundation released its State of the Foundation report for 2020. They have 800 members, which is a growth of 100% from last year, and 5 corporate sponsors, as well as its plan for the coming year. I'm glad to see this sort of transparency; and while I have some reservations about the .NET Foundation; this is a step in the right direction.They also released their budget; and this will get better, but they spent a grand total of $558 dollars on sponsorships this year. You'd hope to see that get much better, and that's the metric I'll be using to judge whether or not they're having the right impact on the .NET community.Stack Overflow infographic:Stack Overflow (the company) released its performance metrics for its collection of Q&A sites on stackexchange.com (What the company used to be named, but then realized that was a terrible name and changed to the same namesake as its flagship Q&A site). So anyway, if you want to know how 300+ Stack Exchanges perform, you'll want to see this.The sheer speed of the Stack Exchange network got the Hacker News folks all in a tizzy. Any day we can tout how well .NET performs and piss off hacker news is a good day..NET Conf - "Focus on Microservices".NET Conf held an all day conference to talk microservices; and I live tweeted it. I've got some pretty nasty scars (And a few fond memories) of working with Microservices; and if that sort of thing interests you, check my live thread on it. If your architect is practicing Resume driven development or you work with really large software teams, you should watch the videos with interest; for the rest of us, the conference probably isn't worth your time unless you really want to learn about some frameworks that can help you build Microservices in .NET.Pretty Fricking Cool Library of the Week (PFCLotW)This week's cool library is Bogus, which allows you to generate fake data for your application. It's a pretty neat library; and you should check it out. I've used it on quite a few occasions, and it's worth your time.In today's podcast episode; I'm diving deeper into what the .NET Foundation is, and whether it's "good for us" as a community in its current form. The episode should drop by Noon EDT (-4 UTC) today; so give it a listen if that's a subject that interests you.Transcript (Powered by otter.ai)George Stocker  0:00  Hi, I'm George Stocker, and welcome to last weekend dotnet. Vb dotnet is not along for the ride in dotnet core and dotnet five. Now for those of you who are hoping to get VB dotnet in dotnet, five, it doesn't look like it's going to happen. So of course, it's going to cause some consternation among VB dotnet developers, and I get it. Visual Basic was written for a time where we thought we could really make a language look like English and not be left out of the room. Now we know better. dB dotnet has done good things. And I know a few products today, they're still written in VB dotnet. But look, it's time Visual Studio 2019 version 16.7. Preview six is now available. Now this is pretty cool. You can actually get advanced versions of Visual Studio whatever the next minor version is, you can get advanced versions of it for free without a license, their preview and so they might have bugs in them, but you want to check out what's coming up in Visual Studio. It's always an interesting install. Now this one is interesting to me because it adds support for Xcode 11.6 I really don't know what this means. But I want to find out because this is really cool. Microsoft dotnet team is hiring, you can actually apply to become a program manager for the dotnet team at Microsoft, I thought about applying, but then realize that allowing everyone to be their authentic selves probably doesn't mean making fun of Microsoft on daily basis. Seriously, though, if you can move to Redmond, you should think about applying dotnet is is entering into its best years. And Microsoft really is one of the better large companies to work for Microsoft's rozlyn team. That's the team that produces the compiler for dotnet. They released a blog post about productivity improvements and their latest push for Roslyn. Now, this was in 16.6. So you may have missed it. It's been out for a few weeks. But what I just noticed is that they've added changes that allow you to see how your date time is going to be formatted when you say date, time to string You have all those options, they now give you IntelliSense for those options, and they tell you what they mean, that's wonderful. It's way long overdue. There are other code refactorings. For this, I still prefer JetBrains resharper. But again, something you should take a look at the dotnet foundation released its state of the foundation blog post for 2020. Now, they this year, they have 800 members, which is 100% growth from last year. And they now have five corporate sponsors. This state of the foundation also includes their upcoming plan. I'm pretty glad to see the sort of transparency, I do have some reservations about the dotnet foundation. I do believe that publishing this is a step in the right direction. They also release their budget, and this will get better but they spent a grand total of $558. In sponsorships this year. you'd hope to see that get much higher if it actually means what I think it means which is sponsoring open source projects. And that's a metric I'm going to be using to judge whether or not they're having the right impact on the dotnet community but you have to start somewhere, and they started at $558 worth of somewhere. StackOverflow released its performance metrics for its Stack Exchange sites on Stack Exchange calm now the company's called Stack Overflow used to be called Stack Exchange. The network is still called Stack Exchange. But the company changed its name back to its flagship site, which is Stack Overflow. Anyway, if you want to know how well the site's perform, you can check out the link at Stack Exchange comm slash performance and the sheer speed of the Stack Exchange network being hosted on dotnet. They got the Hacker News folks all upset and any day we can see how well dotnet performs and piss off Hacker News. That's a good day. dotnet con held their focus on microservices Virtual Conference on July 30. And I have a thread live tweeting it. Now I've got some pretty nasty scars and some fun memories from working with microservices and that sort of thing. interest you, you can check out my life thread on it. Now if your architect is practicing resume driven development, or you work with really large software teams, you should check out the videos from the conference. But for the rest of us, probably not worth your time, unless you want to learn about some of the frameworks that help you build microservices and dotnet. Now, this week's cool library is bogus. Now, it's a library that allows you to generate fake data for your application. It's pretty cool. And you should check it out if you need to generate fake data. One of the common usages that I use it for is if we need to mock data as if it were coming from production. For instance, we need a million rows of data, but we can't use production data. Use bogus, generate it that way. Job done. Alright, as part of today's episode, we're going to talk about the dotnet foundation. And that may seem a little boring, but I promise you it's not it's actually really important for you, for me and for everybody who is part of the dotnet community, the dotnet foundation was formed to advance the interests of the dotnet programming community, including enterprises partners, individual developers and open source communities by fostering open development and collaboration of open source technologies for dotnet programming and related technologies, and by serving as a forum for commercial and community developers to strengthen the future of the dotnet ecosystem, and wider developer community by promoting openness, community participation and rapid innovation. Now if that sounded, we'll can that's because it was that comes directly from the dotnet foundations bylaws, Article One, section three. Now the reason why we're talking about the dotnet foundation is that how its governed and how we interact with it determine how successful dotnet open source is, Will dotnet open source be successful because of the foundation or in spite of the foundation, and if you've been developing in dotnet for a long time, you understand that Microsoft is Really a late comer to the open source movement. Now the foundation was formed in 2014. And it was formed much the same way that the Apache foundation or the eclipse foundation were formed, they're around technology stack, in this case dotnet and to advance the interests of the dotnet community. Now when we say advanced the interest dotnet community got to put an Asterix there. I mean, Microsoft created the dotnet ecosystem. Microsoft's developer division has tons of tooling around dotnet they've put millions and millions of dollars into developing dotnet into what it is, and you can't expect them just to let that go and just to be governed by a foundation. And of course, it's it's not they, they're a founding member, and as such, they get certain rights in the foundation that no one else gets. For instance, in an article two, Section four under founding member, Microsoft Corporation is the founding member, the founding member, and 10s have the right to manage the affairs Foundation, be vested exclusively in the board as described in these bylaws to the maximum extent permitted by applicable law, the founding member and eligible members will elect the board as described in Section 3.3. That's article three, section three. Now the board will consist of one director appointed by the founding member and up to six directors elected by the membership. Now that's important, no matter what Microsoft gets one spot on the board, okay, the membership elects the other six, in fact, not the other six up to six. Now the other rights the founding member gets Microsoft in this case, the director who is appointed by them is going to serve until that person is replaced by Microsoft or otherwise vacates the position. The founding member Microsoft may replace its appointed director anytime as in its sole discretion. Elected directors will serve for the term established in the director election policy found Remember, they get to change their person out whenever they want. Now that's something we need to be aware of. Now the current executive director of the dotnet foundation is Claire Novotny. Claire is the dotnet foundation executive director. And she works at Microsoft as a program manager on the dotnet team. And this is very important. If the dotnet if the foundation is independent, then clearly any any actions taken by Microsoft would be seen as well. It's not an independent foundation. And so right now clear is the executive director. And as of yet, there's not been a non Microsoft executive director that I know of. Now Microsoft has other rights. For instance, under article three section nine meetings, subsection II limited special right for director appointed by my founding member. This is Microsoft remember, in connection with any vote to materially change the foundations of membership policy director election policy, project governance policy, or any intellectual property related agreements or policies, a no vote by the director appointed by the founding member will result in the disapproval of the proposed action, regardless of the number of votes for approval, and such director must be present as part of any quorum, ie if that directors not present, the board will not have a quorum for the matter, regardless of the number of other directors present. So this is important. Microsoft effectively controls how the dotnet foundation is set up and how it's run. You can't change policy if Microsoft doesn't agree to it. That's a very interesting way to set it up if you want it to be independent foundation. Now under Article nine amendments,any amendment of the articles of incorporation or the bylaws must be approved by vote of two thirds of the directors then in office, any such amendment that materially alters risk? or eliminates the rights responsibilities and privileges of the founding member must be agreed to in writing by an authorized representative of the founding member who is not serving as the director of the foundation. Now, this is interesting. You've got this special person that the founding member appoints. And they can't even vote to make changes. Someone else from the founding member has to approve these changes like amendments. Now, why does all this matter? Like why is this political intrigue, even important? Now all of this is important because the dotnet Foundation was set up to help dotnet open source thrive. Now it only thrives if we do what's best for community. We do things that aren't best for the community, it's not going to do as well. dotnet foundation supposed to do that. It's supposed to take into account how the community feels and conduct itself in a way that helps the community thrive. For instance, they have a vision statement. vision statement proposed vision statement is that a diverse, healthy and active open source community, open source software community or project maintainers are well supported and contributors feel welcome, an ecosystem where dotnet open source software is adopted in the enterprise, education and personal projects, and ecosystem are the foundation its members in the world wide dotnet open source software ecosystem work together to identify challenges to the mission, and then collaborate on solutions. A community where those that benefit the most from dotnet open source software contribute back whether it be through resources, time or money in this community is easy for anyone who wishes to contribute to do so in whatever way they can. should be easy for companies to contribute financially to open source software, and easy for project maintainers to receive that support. That's the vision statement they're proposing to change right now. That's the proposed instead of the vision statement. Now the mission statement is the dotnet foundation is an independent A nonprofit organization whose mission is to support an innovative, diverse, commercial friendly, international open source ecosystem for the.net platform. That is their mission statement. Now with everything we've gone through so far, we've gone through their bylaws, we've gone through how they're set up, they have six, up to six directors plus someone appointed by Microsoft. But they also have one other part, which is an advisory council. This Advisory Council consists of six people that work at Microsoft and one that does not also people that run the foundation. They have a treasurer who works at Microsoft, Christopher house, who works at Microsoft, but doesn't have his stated title. And they have Claire, who is the executive director of the dotnet foundation. They have that they then have their board of directors of which it looks like none of their board of directors, except for one except for Beth Massi is a member of Microsoft. So extensively right It's pretty independent, except for the fact that Microsoft appoints the Microsoft appointed director, they will always be able to appoint a director, they can replace that director anytime at their discretion. And that director cannot make decisions that will materially hurt Microsoft. And Microsoft has effectively veto power over anything that changes how the dotnet foundation is run. And then they have an advisory council. It's made up largely of people from Microsoft. So even if someone wants to make a change, you're going to the Advisory Council is going to be there. And you know, this doesn't look so good for Microsoft, please don't do it. But the reason all of this came up is that I believe in the dotnet Foundation, I believe in the idea of making open source software work. I think that right now, open source software won't work. It can't work. It's not financially viable for maintainers. It leads to burn out. It leads to abandoned projects, and generally creates more churn in a system and when you create churn, especially in software, companies don't want to use that software. And I think that you know, creating a foundation whose job it is to help keep that churn down. I think that's, that's a good thing to do. However, open source software has to have the needs of its community at heart. And a foundation that represents open source software has to have the needs of its community at heart. Now recently in in, it was reported back in May, that Microsoft copied its new wind get window Pam, its new wind get package manager, architecturally from apt get, which was a dotnet, open source software package manager. They copied how it worked. They copied its ideas. And if that weren't bad enough,it turns out they'd called Kevin and said, Hey, Kevin, can you come out interview with us? We like what you're doing with aapka they interviewed him, they ghosted him and then the night before build They call him up to say, hey, oh, by the way, we're not going with your app get project, we're going to go our own way. And yet it's being announced tomorrow and build. The next day they announced wind get. Now by itself, this behavior is bad. But this is Microsoft. Aren't they are big supporters of dotnet. Open Source, didn't they establish a foundation just for this? Well, I asked him that question to the foundation to its directors. And the response I received was not our deal. No one asked us for help. We're staying out of it. Is that behavior keeping your, your community's needs in mind? I don't think so. And so I dug some more digging, I was like, well, this, this can't This doesn't make sense. Like why would anyone stay silent. You've you've literally got a dotnet project that's popular, that is filling on a hole that Windows hasn't provided a system level package manager That's pretty dang well. And why is it nobody at the dotnet foundation is speaking out about this. There's some reports from some people, the dotnet Foundation, when I really pressed them that said, you know, hey, if they were a member, we might have stepped in. But since their project isn't on our list of projects, we don't, we don't deal with them. That's not a good enough answer. If your foundation is there, to improve dotnet open source software adoption, you're not just improving it for the projects that are part of your portfolio. You need to improve it for all of them. You're the interest group for dotnet open source software, that's what you do. So again, I was a little heated. And so I started doing more research into the dotnet foundation. That's when I found all the stuff I'm telling you about. I have also been telling people to Hey, you should become a member, you should join the foundation, and you should vote and i believe i believe all those things. And one of the questions I asked is that you know, what does commercially friendly commercial friendliness me back from the mission statement? And the answer I got was telling. And it's actually what led me to speak on this podcast about it today. And the answer I got is the intent is that businesses are able to use dotnet based open source software libraries without friction. Clean IP and licensing is is a key part of that, which is why the foundation has project signup contribution agreement, and a seal a bot for for future contributions that ensures that no one's going to come out of the woodwork, the copyright claim on the code. It also means the use of permissive license licenses, which is one reason that foundation does not support libraries with copyleft licenses. It currently does not say anything about a project's commercial viral viability, nor for sponsors that the foundation of which Microsoft is just one. And that was from clear. The Executive Director, Ben Adams, who is a paid director on the foundation said it's both if a project is not sustainable, then it's not commercial friendly and the dotnet foundation should help enable business to give back to projects they use in a commercial friendly way. As business purchasing can be a complicated internal system and a common barrier for all projects that the dotnet foundation should endeavor to ease. Also, the dotnet foundation does not support non permissive libraries for its license, excuse me, non permissive licenses for its libraries, as they are hard to build on are using a commercial friendly way. Now, this is important, basically dotnet Foundation, if you're producing open source library, dotnet foundation wants Greece's kids good businesses to use it. So if you produce, let's say, a library that does image compression, if you want to be a part of the dotnet Foundation, you can't use a copyleft license like GPL. If you want to be part of the foundation for them to care about you, you got to use permissive license like the Apache License or MIT license. Now if you're an application dotnet open source application, you're allowed, although I haven't seen verbiage to that you're allowed to use a non permissive license. Now, why is all this important? Well, if you're an open source project, and you're a library, I don't see how the foundation is going to make what you do commercially viable for you. We're gonna make it commercially viable for businesses by saying no, you may not use GPL or a GPL. But you may use MIT license and the Apache License, but for applications, they'll help you. They'll be okay with a non permissive license, at least as I understand what they've said here. It's a hell of a way to slice it. Alright, since the bylaws don't cover everything, we have jumped intothe project's policy. The project's policy allows you to determine what projects can be members of the dotnet Foundation, and do they meet the health criteria is important. So let's start with eligibility. Now they're eligible if they fit within the moral and ethical standards for the dotnet Foundation, it's good if the project is aligned with the philosophy and guidelines for collaborative development also good. And it's built on the dotnet platform, or it creates value within the dotnet ecosystem. It's eligible if it produces so source code for distribution to the public at no charge. That's interesting. The license is operated under a is offered under an open source license, which has been approved by the dotnet foundation. And libraries that are mandatory dependencies of the project are also under offered under a standard permissive open source library, which has been approved by the dotnet foundation. Now all of these are and there's more criteria, but those are the most interesting ones. If you decide you want to put your project under the dotnet Foundation, you have two choices. You can either a assign your project, to the dotnet foundation that's transferring the copyright of your project to the dotnet Foundation, or B. You can use the contribution model which is you retain, or the project retains ownership of the copyright, but they grant the dotnet foundation abroad license the project's code and enter in other IP. Now, why is all this important? Why do we need to care about such esoteric documents? And it's because if you ever want to know what a business cares about, look at what they write down. They put a lot of effort into these governing documents. Microsoft put a lot of effort in being sure they couldn't be kicked down. They also put a lot of effort into ensuring that they, their rights were always protected with effectively veto power over any decision that changes how dotnet foundation runs. The foundation itself is set up to ensure that companies can easily use open source projects, they can easily rely on them, but you're missing a leg. And we see that with what happened with Kevin and aapka. What about the project mean? Tanner's, where do they come in? Sure they get a seal a bot, that makes it easier for people to contribute changes their projects. Okay? That's a solved problem. And they get pixel space on the dotnet Foundation website, but only if they're members. Something like AppGet, something that was materially important to the dotnet community because it showed that you could use dotnet to create something as foundational system package manager, have it be popular, and they get nothing, because they weren't a member. And even if they were a member, it's not like Microsoft say, Oh, yeah, you're right. Gosh, we shouldn't have competed with open source project are bad. They didn't do that. Microsoft, you know, after an outcry finally gave keivan credit, but if they used his architectural work, his design work that's worth 7500 k from consulting, just by developer time alone, your developer team, you have them spend Two months figuring out the architecture of the system, what his design will be how its API's work, that's easily worth 75 or 100. k. What did Kevin get? Well, he got a footnote read me Two months later. And that's the sort of thing that I thought the dotnet Foundation was supposed to protect against. But as I find out, they're not, you know, they're there to grease the skids for companies, protecting projects is a distant second to that. Now, that, of course, may not be the desire that may not be what they're trying to do. But it's the impact. And it sure seems like the dotnet foundation is set up in such a way that it's there to enrich Microsoft, even if it hurts the community. And so let's look at their budget what they do this year. Now currently, they released their state of the foundation this week. They have five corporate sponsors. They have 800 members and their budget. They brought in 237,000 sent out expenses of 157,004 2020 ending July, or excuse me, ending June 2020. In their budget, they had sponsorships of $558. And outreach of $81,517 goal of outreach is to encourage new developers to build dotnet empower underrepresented segments of the coder community, become leaders and contributors and assist event organizers with evangelism and grow.So for their budget, they spent 81,000 on outreach, only $558 on sponsorships. Now it's unclear how much of their money went to open source projects. I can't tell that just by looking at their balance sheet. There's no line, hey, this we're outlays that we actually contributed to projects with but remember, you know what people write down they care about where is the goals for give Many open source projects, I don't see it. And this means that they don't care about open source or that, you know, the dotnet foundation just exists to enrich Microsoft. But it does raise some interesting questions at this point. What we need for open source in the dotnet community is we need open source to not be plagued by burnout to not be plagued by companies stealing the work. You know, I don't even say that we have, we do have a list of problems and done and open source. And you know, how easy it is to get companies to adopt open source. It's even on my top five. You know, it's hard to get people to maintain projects, you know, authors, like even get their work stolen for no money, no credit. It took the community outcry to even get a footnote on the readme file. Microsoft continually competes with the community and maintainers don't have the backing up an interest group that can help us that's what the dotnet Foundation's there for There'd be the backing for the maintainers there to be the special interest group for people that make open source software with dotnet. Yes, they should grease, grease the skids for businesses to use open source software. Absolutely. But they should do it in such a way that enriches the community, not a project sponsor, not their founding member, the community. So here we are. We're at the start of a new fiscal year for the dotnet foundation. We're having new directors Come on. And I want to challenge the directors that join the foundation to figure out who are they therefore, are they there to enrich the founding member to make it easier for them? Or are they there to enrich the community? And if you aren't there to enrich the community? Then we got to start focusing on making dotnet open source software sustainable, and yes, that means putting money in the pocket of maintainers Open source software is a labor of love. You have to love what you're doing. But love doesn't pay the bills. Love doesn't put a roof over your head. These companies have plenty of capital. We need an interest group, like the dotnet foundation to put that capital to work for us. Now, how can we do it? One issue is that we should have dual licensing. And the dotnet foundation should look at dual licensing. If you're an open source project, you get one license, if you're commercial, you got to pay and you should pay. You're making money or you're using the software to make money in your business or to save you money. You should pay for that right if you're a business dinette foundation can help by putting together an invoicing system by saying, look, we have lawyers, you pay dues, those dues go to lawyers to figure out do licensing your dotnet project, they will figure out the license and you don't have to the next thing we'll do. So we'll set up an invoicing system to make it as easy as possible for open source projects under the dotnet foundation to have to generate invoice for business so the business can business's purchasing department can pay them. The next thing we will do as dotnet foundation is that we will fight tooth and nail for dotnet open source, there should be no one that questions whether dotnet foundation exists to enrich the community and seeks to defend the community from companies that would try to take and give back. And that means at some point, members of the dotnet Foundation and the directors of the dotnet foundation have to stand up to factions within Microsoft do just that. This is not the first time that I Microsoft team has taken something from open source. It's only the latest time and it's gonna happen again. That's almost a certainty. I want dotnet open source software to succeed I believe it needs to succeed. We're not in a closed source world anymore. But for it to succeed. It's got to be financially viable. For the maintainers, the people that put their hearts and their souls into creating these libraries and these frameworks that we use. And the only way that's going to happen is if the interest group we have the dotnet foundation puts all of its effort towards making that the goal. Now this incredibly depressing podcast, of course, is brought to you by myself, George Stocker. And I help teams double their productivitythrough test driven development. You can reach out to me at www.doubleyourproductivity.io.Transcribed by https://otter.ai

Kimya Gandhi is a type designer from Mumbai with a passionate interest in Indic type design. She is an alumnus of National institute of Fashion Technology and Industrial Design Centre, IIT Mumbai. She got her professional start interning at Linotype in 2010. Over the next few years she freelanced for several type foundries catering to their multi-script requirements. In 2015, she became a partner at Mota Italic and now focuses on Indic and Latin designs for retail and custom corporate projects. On this episode, we talk about Kimya’s journey as a designer and about some of her key type design projects. She also talks about the unique challenges of designing fonts for Indic scripts and about business aspects of the type design industry. RELEVANT LINKS Kimya Gandhi - kimyagandhi.wordpress.com Motaitalic type foundry - www.motaitalic.com Madh Island - en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Madh_Island NIFT - nift.ac.in Fashion Communication - www.nift.ac.in/bdesfc NID - www.nid.edu Lettering - en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lettering IDC, IIT Mumbai - www.idc.iitb.ac.in White Crow Design - whitecrow.in Type Design at Univ. of Reading - typefacedesign.net Type Design at KABK, Netherlands - www.kabk.nl/en/programmes/master/type-and-media CDAC - cdac.in Fontographer - en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fontographer Prof. Kirti Trivedi - www.idc.iitb.ac.in/kirti/index.html
Kohei Sugiura - www.academia.edu/28689470/Kohei_Sugiura_Graphic_Design_Methodology_and_philosophy Gurmukhi Script - en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gurmukhi
Mahendra Patel - designedthisway.com Linotype - www.linotype.com Monotype - www.monotype.com Indian Type Foundry - www.indiantypefoundry.com Satya Rajpurohit - www.indiantypefoundry.com/about
Devanagri - en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Devanagari DIN Next - www.linotype.com/517415/din-next-family.html Jubilee - www.linotype.com/317196/jubilee-family.html Akira Kobayashi - www.monotype.com/studio/akira-kobayashi
Type design intensive course - http://typefacedesign.net/courses/tdi/
Cleveland Museum of Art - www.clevelandart.org
Gerry Leonidas - leonidas.net
Fiona Ross - www.reading.ac.uk/typography/about/Staff_list/f-g-e-ross.aspx
Indic Scripts - en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brahmic_scripts
Dr Vaibhav Singh - www.reading.ac.uk/typography/about/Staff_list/v-singh2.aspx
Rob Keller - www.motaitalic.com/info/about/
Sharad Typeface Download. - setuadvertising.com/sharad76/
SETU Advertising - setuadvertising.com
Conjunct consonant - en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conjunct_consonant
Maku Typeface - www.motaitalic.com/product/maku/
Dingbats - en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dingbat
Glyphs App - glyphsapp.com Robofont - robofont.com
Chikki Typeface - www.motaitalic.com/product/chikki/ Chikki, the food - en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chikki Boaty, McBoatface - en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boaty_McBoatface Shirorekha - idc.iitb.ac.in/resources/dt-jan-2009/Anatomy%20of%20Devanagari.pdf Physics Envy - en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Physics_envy
Link to my upcoming Gurumukhi Type Inspiration (Mentioned in the podcast) - www.instagram.com/p/BrzbZT3Hxqr/
Golden Temple - en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golden_Temple Type Design Resources from Motaitalic - www.motaitalic.com/info/type-design-resources/
David Jonathan Ross - djr.com
Inga Plönnigs - www.ingaploennigs.com OTF - en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OpenType TTF - en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TrueType WOFF - en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Web_Open_Font_Format
Futurefonts - www.futurefonts.xyz EULA - en.wikipedia.org/wiki/End-user_license_agreement
Apache License - en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apache_License
Danfo Std by Da Design - dadesign.studio/work/danfo-std

Welcome to the History of Computing Podcast, where we explore the history of information technology. Because understanding the past prepares us for the innovations of the future! Today we're going to cover one of the most important and widely distributed server platforms ever: The Apache Web Server. Today, Apache servers account for around 44% of the 1.7 Billion web sites on the Internet. But at one point it was zero. And this is crazy, it's down from over 70% in 2010. Tim Berners-Lee had put the first website up in 1991 and what we now know as the web was slowly growing. In 1994 and begins with the National Center for Supercomputing Applications, University of Illinois, Urbana-Champaign. Yup, NCSA is also the organization that gave us telnet and Mosaic, the web browser that would evolve into Netscape. After Rob leaves NCSA, the HTTPdaemon goes a little, um, dormant in development. The distress had forked and the extensions and bug fixes needed to get merged into a common distribution. Apache is a free and open source web server that was initially created by Robert McCool and written in C in 1995, the same year Berners-Lee coined the term World Wide Web. You can't make that name up. I'd always pictured him as a cheetah wearing sunglasses. Who knew that he'd build a tool that would host half of the web sites in the world. A tool that would go on to be built into plenty of computers so they can spin up sharing services. Times have changed since 1995. Originally the name was supposedly a cute name referring to a Patchy server, given that it was based on lots of existing patches of craptostic code from NCSA. So it was initially based on NCSA HTTPd is still alive and well all the way up to the configuration files. For example, on a Mac these are stored at /private/etc/apache2/httpd.conf. The original Apache group consisted of * Brian Behlendorf * Roy T. Fielding * Rob Hartill * David Robinson * Cliff Skolnick * Randy Terbush * Robert S. Thau * Andrew Wilson And there were additional contributions from Eric Hagberg, Frank Peters, and Nicolas Pioch. Within a year of that first shipping, Apache had become the most popular web server on the internet. The distributions and sites continued to grow to the point that they formed the Apache Software Foundation that would give financial, legal, and organizational support for Apache. They even started bringing other open source projects under that umbrella. Projects like Tomcat. And the distributions of Apache grew. Mod_ssl, which brought the first SSL functionality to Apache 1.17, was released in 1998. And it grew. The Apache Foundation came in 1999 to make sure the project outlived the participants and bring other tools under the umbrella. The first conference, ApacheCon came in 2000. Douglas Adams was there. I was not. There were 17 million web sites at the time. The number of web sites hosted on Apache servers continued to rise. Apache 2 was released in 2004. The number of web sites hosted on Apache servers continued to rise. By 2009, Apache was hosting over 100 million websites. By 2013 Apache had added that it was named “out of a respect for the Native American Indian tribe of Apache”. The history isn't the only thing that was rewritten. Apache itself was rewritten and is now distributed as Apache 2.0. there were over 670 million web sites by then. And we hit 1 billion sites in 2014. I can't help but wonder what percentage collections of fart jokes. Probably not nearly enough. But an estimated 75% are inactive sites. The job of a web server is to serve web pages on the internet. Those were initially flat HTML files but have gone on to include CGI, PHP, Python, Java, Javascript, and others. A web browser is then used to interpret those files. They access the .html or .htm (or other one of the other many file types that now exist) file and it opens a page and then loads the text, images, included files, and processes any scripts. Both use the http protocol; thus the URL begins with http or https if the site is being hosted over ssl. Apache is responsible for providing the access to those pages over that protocol. The way the scripts are interpreted is through Mods. These include mod_php, mod_python, mod_perl, etc. The modular nature of Apache makes it infinitely extensible. OK, maybe not infinitely. Nothing's really infinite. But the Loadable Dynamic Modules do make the system more extensible. For example, you can easily get TLS/SSL using mod_ssl. The great thing about Apache and its mods are that anyone can adapt the server for generic uses and they allow you to get into some pretty really specific needs. And the server as well as each of those mods has its source code available on the Interwebs. So if it doesn't do exactly what you want, you can conform the server to your specific needs. For example, if you wanna' hate life, there's a mod for FTP. Out of the box, Apache logs connections, includes a generic expression parser, supports webdav and cgi, can support Embedded Perl, PHP and Lua scripting, can be configured for public_html per-user web-page, supports htaccess to limit access to various directories as one of a few authorization access controls and allows for very in depth custom logging and log rotation. Those logs include things like the name and IP address of a host as well as geolocations. Can rewrite headers, URLs, and content. It's also simple to enable proxies Apache, along with MySQL, PHP and Linux became so popular that the term LAMP was coined, short for those products. The prevalence allowed the web development community to build hundreds or thousands of tools on top of Apache through the 90s and 2000s, including popular Content Management Systems, or CMS for short, such as Wordpress, Mamba, and Joomla. * Auto-indexing and content negotiation * Reverse proxy with caching * Multiple load balancing mechanisms * Fault tolerance and Failover with automatic recovery * WebSocket, FastCGI, SCGI, AJP and uWSGI support with caching * Dynamic configuration * Name- and IP address-based virtual servers * gzip compression and decompression * Server Side Includes * User and Session tracking * Generic expression parser * Real-time status views * XML support Today we have several web servers to choose from. Engine-X, spelled Nginx, is a newer web server that was initially released in 2004. Apache uses a thread per connection and so can only process the number of threads available; by default 10,000 in Linux and macOS. NGINX doesn't use threads so can scale differently, and is used by companies like AirBNB, Hulu, Netflix, and Pinterest. That 10,000 limit is easily controlled using concurrent connection limiting, request processing rate limiting, or bandwidth throttling. You can also scale with some serious load balancing and in-band health checks or with one of the many load balancing options. Having said that, Baidu.com, Apple.com, Adobe.com, and PayPal.com - all Apache. We also have other web servers provided by cloud services like Cloudflare and Google slowly increasing in popularity. Tomcat is another web server. But Tomcat is almost exclusively used to run various Java servers, servelets, EL, webscokets, etc. Today, each of the open source projects under the Apache Foundation has a Project Management committee. These provide direction and management of the projects. New members are added when someone who contributes a lot to the project get nominated to be a contributor and then a vote is held requiring unanimous support. Commits require three yes votes with no no votes. It's all ridiculously efficient in a very open source hacker kinda' way. The Apache server's impact on the open-source software community has been profound. It iis partly explained by the unique license from the Apache Software Foundation. The license was in fact written to protect the creators of Apache while giving access to the source code for others to hack away at it. The Apache License 1.1 was approved in 2000 and removed the requirement to attribute the use of the license in advertisements of software. Version two of the license came in 2004, which made the license easier for projects that weren't from the Apache Foundation. This made it easier for GPL compatibility, and using a reference for the whole project rather than attributing software in every file. The open source nature of Apache was critical to the growth of the web as we know it today. There were other projects to build web servers for sure. Heck, there were other protocols, like Gopher. But many died because of stringent licensing policies. Gopher did great until the University of Minnesota decided to charge for it. Then everyone realized it didn't have nearly as good of graphics as other web servers. Today the web is one of the single largest growth engines of the global economy. And much of that is owed to Apache. So thanks Apache, for helping us to alleviate a little of the suffering of the human condition for all creatures of the world. By the way, did you know you can buy hamster wheels on the web. Or cat food. Or flea meds for the dog. Speaking of which, I better get back to my chores. Thanks for taking time out of your busy schedule to listen! You probably get to your chores as well though. Sorry if I got you in trouble. But hey, thanks for tuning in to another episode of the History of Computing Podcast. We're lucky to have you. Have a great day!

Smokin’ hot webinar tips in this one, tips on things to put on your mouth in Austin, and then scandal in the open source world is getting fun again! Hey, Coté got off his ass and finally revved back up his newsletter (https://buttondown.email/cote). People love it! Subscribe (https://buttondown.email/cote) and tell all your friends to subscribe (https://buttondown.email/cote)! Go to buttondown.email/cote (https://buttondown.email/cote) or cote.io/newsletter (https://cote.io/newsletter/) and do it! Mood board: It’s probably more of a figurative figurative phrase, not a literal figurative phrase. I should probably start the recording again. Don’t be so precise. Kids these days. There’s lots of issues with the Salt Lick. Here’s a napkin. You’re better off getting a Porche from Germany. Let me translate that from Dutch to American. 15 meters of cereal. Tradeless Commissions Some basis points. Well, I don’t know that, but I’m gonna look it up later. Hey, Coté got off his ass and finally reved back up his newsletter (https://buttondown.email/cote). People love it! Subscribe (https://buttondown.email/cote) and tell all your friends to subscribe (https://buttondown.email/cote): Relevant to your interests The webinar (https://content.pivotal.io/webinars/oct-03-confronting-the-business-bottleneck-digital-strategy-beyond-it-part-1-webinar-emea) Coté mentioned, “The Business Bottleneck, part 01” with Rick Clark. Matt Levine on free stock trading stuff (https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2019-10-02/the-trades-will-be-free-now). AWS faces Elasticsearch lawsuit for trademark infringement (https://searchaws.techtarget.com/news/252471650/AWS-faces-Elasticsearch-lawsuit-for-trademark-infringement) Docker, once worth over $1 billion, tells employees it's trying to raise cash amid 'significant challenges' (https://www.cnbc.com/2019/09/27/docker-is-trying-to-raise-money-following-arrival-of-ceo-rob-bearden.html) Google will not donate Knative framework 'to any foundation for the foreseeable future' (https://www.theregister.co.uk/2019/10/02/google_knative_will_not_be_donated_to_any_foundation/) The announcement is presumed to apply also to Istio (https://www.theregister.co.uk/2018/12/11/googles_istio_kubernetes/), the service mesh on which Knative depends. Both Knative and Istio use the Apache License 2.0 (https://www.apache.org/licenses/LICENSE-2.0) and Google's announcement does confirm that Knative will remain open source and with multi-vendor participation. Jessie Frazelle does not like the CNCF (https://twitter.com/jessfraz/status/1179251190321819656) and this tweet too (https://twitter.com/jessfraz/status/1175911408627642369). Honeycomb Begins Another Chapter with a New Funding Round (https://www.honeycomb.io/blog/honeycomb-begins-another-chapter-with-a-new-funding-round/). BMC Software taps CA Technologies exec for permanent CEO position (https://www.zdnet.com/article/bmc-software-taps-ca-technologies-exec-for-permanent-ceo-position/#ftag=RSSbaffb68). KeyBanc Capital Markets (https://key2.bluematrix.com/docs/pdf/274dd0f8-294d-4ae1-a74f-7161709a1646.pdf) - with some VMware coverage. Read the full transcript of Mark Zuckerberg’s leaked internal Facebook meetings (https://www.theverge.com/2019/10/1/20892354/mark-zuckerberg-full-transcript-leaked-facebook-meetings). Nonsense Dog-walking startup Wag raised $300 million to Zunleash growth. Then things got messy (https://edition.cnn.com/2019/09/27/tech/wag-dog-walking-softbank/index.html) Hercules cargo plane flew between skyscrapers (https://twitter.com/evankirstel/status/1179380161692733443?s=21) Sponsors HMA To try HMA VPN risk-free with a 30-day money-back guarantee visit: www.hidemyass.com/offer-sdt. SolarWinds: To try it FREE for 14 days, just go to https://loggly.com/sdt. If it logs, it can log to Loggly. Conferences, et. al. Oct 7th to 10th - SpringOne Platform, Oct 7th to 10th, Austin Texas (https://springoneplatform.io/) - get $200 off registration before August 20th, and $200 more if you use the code S1P200_Cote. Come to the EMEA party (https://connect.pivotal.io/EMEA-Cocktail-Reception-S1P-2019.html) if you’re in EMEA. Oct 9th to 10th - Cloud Expo Asia (https://www.cloudexpoasia.com/) Singapore, Oct 9th and 10th Nov 2nd - EmacsConf (https://emacsconf.org/2019/) 2019 Nov 3rd to 7th - Gartner Symposium, Barcelona. Coté has a €625 discount code if you ask him for it. December - 2019, a city near you: The 2019 SpringOne Tours are posted (http://springonetour.io/): Toronto Dec 2nd (https://springonetour.io/2019/toronto). December 12-13 2019 - Kubernetes Summit Sydney (https://events.linuxfoundation.org/events/kubernetes-summit-sydney-2019/) Discount off KubeCon North America which is November 18 – 21 in San Diego. Use code KCNASFTPOD19 for a 10% discount. NO-SSH-JJ wants you go to DeliveryConf (https://www.deliveryconf.com/) in Seattle on Jan 21st & 22nd (https://www.deliveryconf.com/), Use promo code: SDT10 to get 10% off. Call for Papers ends on Oct. 7th. JJ wants you to read about Delivery Conf Format too (https://www.deliveryconf.com/format). † Listener Feedback Sent stickers to Leon in Germany. Ed from Seattle wrote in so we sent him a sticker. Sent stickers to Chris from Bartlesville and so he got stickers. Sent sticker to Joe in Colorado. SDT news & hype Join us in Slack (http://www.softwaredefinedtalk.com/slack). Send your postal address to stickers@softwaredefinedtalk.com (mailto:stickers@softwaredefinedtalk.com) and we will send you free laptop stickers! Follow us on Twitter (https://twitter.com/softwaredeftalk), Instagram (https://www.instagram.com/softwaredefinedtalk/) or LinkedIn (https://www.linkedin.com/company/software-defined-talk/) Listen to the Software Defined Interviews Podcast (https://www.softwaredefinedinterviews.com/). Check out the back catalog (http://cote.coffee/howtotech/). Brandon built the Quick Concall iPhone App (https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/quick-concall/id1399948033?mt=8) and he wants you to buy it for $0.99. Use the code SDT to get $20 off Coté’s book, (https://leanpub.com/digitalwtf/c/sdt) Digital WTF (https://leanpub.com/digitalwtf/c/sdt), so $5 total. 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In this episode, Global Black Belt and Technical Architect in Big Data and Advanced Analytics Team at Microsoft, Alex Zeltov, is our guest and he explains the in's and out's of MLOps though various tools like mlflow and kubeflow In this second part, we go into more depth on the practical consequences of implementing MLOps and the various tools that are available. We also go on a bit of a tangent discussing why traditional enterprises are still having a hard time to look at machine learning models as something that requires and benefits from things like model management, version control and periodic updating of models. For more from Alex on MLOps and mlflow, check out his presentation at the Washington DC DataWorks Summit a couple, of weeks ago. The slides are now available on SlideShare and the video is available on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ns82mJjJgto MLOps Just like DataOps follows on to DevOps, one may say that MLOps continues after DataOps. While there is a wikipedia page on the subject, there is not that much "prior art" available just yet. The main advantages that MLOps can deliver, according to Alex, are a much improved move to production of trained algorithmes, even allowing for CI/CD, and a more structured approach to training models where multiple data scientists can work together to achieve better results. mlflow One of the main tools emerging at the moment is the DataBricks backed mlflow project. Though not an Apache project, it has been open sourced under the Apache License now and shows much promise. In the episode, Alex explains how mlflow integrates with your data science notebooks to allow for reliable  model management with minimal disruption. Kubeflow (Image taken from https://medium.com/@amina.alsherif/how-to-get-started-with-kubeflow-187792f3e99) The second contender to reach for the MLOps crown is Kubeflow. Even though less mature than mlflow, it is backed  by the very popular Kubernetes framework and that brings a large community together working on this project.     Please use the Contact Form on this blog or our twitter feed to send us your questions, or to suggest future episode topics you would like us to cover.

Starburst gives analysts the freedom to work with diverse data sets wherever their location, without compromising on performance. Using Presto, the Starburst Distribution of Presto provides fast, interactive query performance across a wide variety of data sources including HDFS, Amazon S3, MySQL, SQL Server, PostgreSQL, Cassandra, MongoDB, Kafka, and Teradata, among others. Founded by the largest team of Presto committers outside of Facebook, Starburst is the only company providing enterprise support for the Presto project. Originally invented and open sourced by Facebook under the Apache License, Presto is the fastest growing SQL engine driven by a community of users --- from small companies to the Fortune 500. According to Justin Borgman, CEO of Starburst Data, the largest contributor to the Presto open source project outside of Facebook, there are three key items to keep in mind when creating a data architecture that can stand the test of time: Separate compute and storage Use open data formats Future proof your architecture with abstraction wherever you can By adhering to these three items, enterprises preserve their optionality, enabling them to better control costs and gain the most from the architecture investments. But each item plays a specific role in creating optionality. I invited Justin Borgman onto my daily tech podcast to learn more about data architecture freedom and much more. Justin has spent the better part of a decade in senior executive roles building new businesses in the data warehousing and analytics space. Prior to co-founding Starburst, Justin was Vice President and General Manager at Teradata (NYSE: TDC), where he was responsible for the company’s portfolio of Hadoop products. Prior to joining Teradata, Justin was co-founder and CEO of Hadapt, the pioneering “SQL-on-Hadoop” company that transformed Hadoop from file system to analytic database accessible to anyone with a BI tool. Hadapt was acquired by Teradata in 2014.

In this episode, Global Black Belt and Technical Architect in Big Data and Advanced Analytics Team at Microsoft, Alex Zeltov, is our guest and he explains the in's and out's of MLOps though various tools like mlflow and kubeflow In this first episode, Alex talks on a more theoretical level about MLOps and the benefits it can deliver. For more from Alex on MLOps and mlflow, check out his presentation at the Washington DC DataWorks Summit a couple, of weeks ago. The slides are now available on SlideShare and the video is available on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ns82mJjJgto MLOps Just like DataOps follows on to DevOps, one may say that MLOps continues after DataOps. While there is a wikipedia page on the subject, there is not that much "prior art" available just yet. The main advantages that MLOps can deliver, according to Alex, are a much improved move to production of trained algorithmes, even allowing for CI/CD, and a more structured approach to training models where multiple data scientists can work together to achieve better results. mlflow One of the main tools emerging at the moment is the DataBricks backed mlflow project. Though not an Apache project, it has been open sourced under the Apache License now and shows much promise. In the episode, Alex explains how mlflow integrates with your data science notebooks to allow for reliable  model management with minimal disruption. Kubeflow (Image taken from https://medium.com/@amina.alsherif/how-to-get-started-with-kubeflow-187792f3e99) The second contender to reach for the MLOps crown is Kubeflow. Even though less mature than mlflow, it is backed  by the very popular Kubernetes framework and that brings a large community together working on this project.     Please use the Contact Form on this blog or our twitter feed to send us your questions, or to suggest future episode topics you would like us to cover.

Simon & Nicki are joined by a live audience to record a great set of cool updates for customers! Chapters: 1:20 Infrastructure 1:33 Developer Tools 3:50 Storage 4:28 Compute 6:13 Database 10:22 Analytics 13:01 IoT 13:23 End User Computing 14:08 Machine Learning 17:03 Networking 18:22 Customer Engagement 18:37 Application Integration 19:12 Game Tech 19:47 Media Services 20:44 Management and Governance 23:20 Robotics 24:26 Migration 25:03 Security 25:38 Training & Certification 26:05 Audience Q&A Shownotes: Topic || Infrastructure Announcing the AWS Asia Pacific (Hong Kong) Region | https://aws.amazon.com/about-aws/whats-new/2019/04/announcing-the-aws-asia-pacific-hong-kong-region/ Topic || Developer Tools AWS Amplify Console Now Supports Deploying Fullstack Serverless Applications with a Single Click | https://aws.amazon.com/about-aws/whats-new/2019/04/aws-amplify-console-now-supports-deploying-fullstack-serverless-/ Amplify Framework Simplifies Configuring OAuth 2.0 Flows, Hosted UI, and AR/VR Scenes for Mobile and Web Apps | https://aws.amazon.com/about-aws/whats-new/2019/04/amplify-framework-simplifies-configuring-oauth-2-0-flows--hosted/ Amplify Framework Announces New Amazon Aurora Serverless, GraphQL, and OAuth Capabilities | https://aws.amazon.com/about-aws/whats-new/2019/04/aws-amplify-announces-new-amazon-aurora-serverless--graphql--and/ AWS Amplify Console adds support for Custom Headers | https://aws.amazon.com/about-aws/whats-new/2019/04/aws-amplify-console-adds-support-for-custom-headers/ AWS Amplify Console Now Available in Five Additional Regions | https://aws.amazon.com/about-aws/whats-new/2019/04/amplify-console-now-available-in-five-additional-regions/ AWS Device Farm Remote Access for Manual Testing on real Android and iOS devices now supports Android OS 8+ and iOS 11+ devices | https://aws.amazon.com/about-aws/whats-new/2019/04/aws-device-farm-remote-access-for-manual-testing-on-real-android/ Topic || Storage New AWS Public Datasets Available from National Renewable Energy Laboratory, Nanyang Technological University, Stanford, Software Heritage and others | https://aws.amazon.com/about-aws/whats-new/2019/04/new-aws-public-datasets-available-from-national-renewable-energy/ Topic || Compute Amazon EC2 T3a Instances Are Now Generally Available | https://aws.amazon.com/about-aws/whats-new/2019/04/amazon-ec2-t3a-instances-are-now-generally-available/ Amazon EKS Now Delivers Kubernetes Control Plane Logs to Amazon CloudWatch | https://aws.amazon.com/about-aws/whats-new/2019/04/amazon-eks-now-delivers-kubernetes-control-plane-logs-to-amazon-/ Amazon EKS Supports EC2 A1 Instances as a Public Preview | https://aws.amazon.com/about-aws/whats-new/2019/04/-amazon-eks-supports-ec2-a1-instances-as-a-public-preview-/ AWS Elastic Beanstalk extends Tag-Based Permissions | https://aws.amazon.com/about-aws/whats-new/2019/04/aws_elastic_beanstalk_extends_tag-based_permissions/ AWS ParallelCluster 2.3.1 with enhanced support for Slurm Workload Manager is available now | https://aws.amazon.com/about-aws/whats-new/2019/04/aws-parallelcluster-slurm-enhancements/ Topic || Databases Amazon RDS now supports per-second billing | https://aws.amazon.com/about-aws/whats-new/2019/04/aws-rds-per-second-billing/ Amazon RDS for Oracle Now Supports Database Storage Size up to 64TiB | https://aws.amazon.com/about-aws/whats-new/2019/04/amazon-rds-for-oracle-now-supports-64tib/ Amazon RDS Enhanced Monitoring Adds New Storage and Host Metrics | https://aws.amazon.com/about-aws/whats-new/2019/04/enhanced-monitoring-supports-additional-metrics/ Amazon RDS for PostgreSQL Now Supports Multi Major Version Upgrades to PostgreSQL 11 | https://aws.amazon.com/about-aws/whats-new/2019/04/amazon-rds-postgresql-supports-multi-major-version-upgrades/ Amazon RDS for PostgreSQL Now Supports Data Import from Amazon S3 | https://aws.amazon.com/about-aws/whats-new/2019/04/amazon-rds-postgresql-supports-data-import-from-amazon-s3/ Amazon Aurora and Amazon RDS Enable Faster Migration from MySQL 5.7 Databases | https://aws.amazon.com/about-aws/whats-new/2019/04/amazon_aurora_and_amazon_rds_enable_faster_migration_from_mysql_57_databases/ Amazon Aurora Serverless Supports Sharing and Cross-Region Copying of Snapshots | https://aws.amazon.com/about-aws/whats-new/2019/04/amazon_aurora_serverless_now_supports_sharing_and_cross-region_copying_of_snapshots/ AWS simplifies replatforming of Microsoft SQL Server databases from Windows to Linux | https://aws.amazon.com/about-aws/whats-new/2019/04/windows-to-linux-replatforming-assistant-sql-server-databases/ Amazon Redshift now provides more control over snapshots | https://aws.amazon.com/about-aws/whats-new/2019/04/amazon-redshift-now-provides-more-control-over-snapshots/ AWS specifies the IP address ranges for Amazon DynamoDB endpoints | https://aws.amazon.com/about-aws/whats-new/2019/04/aws-specifies-the-ip-address-ranges-for-amazon-dynamodb-endpoints/ Now you can tag Amazon DynamoDB tables when you create them | https://aws.amazon.com/about-aws/whats-new/2019/04/now-you-can-tag-amazon-dynamodb-tables-when-you-create-them/ DynamoDBMapper now supports Amazon DynamoDB transactional API calls | https://aws.amazon.com/about-aws/whats-new/2019/04/dynamodbmapper-now-supports-amazon-dynamodb-transactional-api-calls/ Topic || Analytics Amazon Elasticsearch Service announces support for Elasticsearch 6.5 | https://aws.amazon.com/about-aws/whats-new/2019/04/amazon-elasticsearch-service-announces-support-for-elasticsearch-6-5/ Amazon Elasticsearch Service adds event monitoring and alerting support | https://aws.amazon.com/about-aws/whats-new/2019/04/amazon-elasticsearch-service-adds-event-monitoring-and-alerting-support/ Amazon Elasticsearch Service now offers improved performance at lower costs with C5, M5, and R5 instances | https://aws.amazon.com/about-aws/whats-new/2019/04/amazon-elasticsearch-service-now-offers-improved-performance-at-lower-costs-with-C5-M5-R5-instances/ AWS Glue now supports additional configuration options for memory-intensive jobs | https://aws.amazon.com/about-aws/whats-new/2019/04/aws-glue-now-supports-additional-configuration-options-for-memory-intensive-jobs/ Announcing EMR release 5.22.0: Support for new versions of HBase, Oozie, Flink, and optimized EBS configuration for improved IO performance for applications such as Spark | https://aws.amazon.com/about-aws/whats-new/2019/04/announcing-emr-release-5220-support-for-new-versions-of-hbase-oozie-flink-and-optimized-ebs-configuration-for-improved-io-performance-for-applications-such-as-spark/ Amazon Kinesis Data Streams changes license for its consumer library to Apache License 2.0 | https://aws.amazon.com/about-aws/whats-new/2019/04/amazon_kinesis_data_streams_changes_license_for_its_consumer_library_to_apache_license_2_0/ Amazon MSK expands its open preview into AP (Singapore) and AP (Sydney) AWS Regions | https://aws.amazon.com/about-aws/whats-new/2019/04/amazon_msk_expands_its_open_preview_into_ap_singapore_and_ap_sydney_aws_regions/ Amazon QuickSight now supports localization, percentile calculations and more | https://aws.amazon.com/about-aws/whats-new/2019/04/Amazon_QuickSight_now_supports_localization_percentile_calculations_and_more/ Topic || IoT Amazon FreeRTOS Now Supports Resource Tagging | https://aws.amazon.com/about-aws/whats-new/2019/04/amazon-freertos-now-supports-resource-tagging/ AWS IoT Analytics Now Supports Single Step Setup of IoT Analytics Resources from AWS IoT Core | https://aws.amazon.com/about-aws/whats-new/2019/04/aws-iot-analytics-now-supports-single-step-setup-of-iot-analytic/ Topic || End User Computing AWS Client VPN is Now Available in Four Additional AWS Regions | https://aws.amazon.com/about-aws/whats-new/2019/04/aws-client-vpn-is-now-available-in-four-additional-aws-regions/ Amazon WorkDocs Migration Service | https://aws.amazon.com/about-aws/whats-new/2019/04/amazon_workdocs_migration_service/ Amazon WorkDocs Document Approvals | https://aws.amazon.com/about-aws/whats-new/2019/04/amazon-workdocs-document-approval/ Topic || Machine Learning Amazon SageMaker Now Offers Reduced Prices in the Asia Pacific (Tokyo) and Asia Pacific (Seoul) AWS Regions | https://aws.amazon.com/about-aws/whats-new/2019/04/amazon-sagemaker-now-offers-reduced-prices-in-the-asia-pacific--/ Amazon SageMaker Now Supports Greater Control of Root Access to Notebook Instances | https://aws.amazon.com/about-aws/whats-new/2019/04/amazon-sagemaker-now-supports-greater-control-of-root-access-to-/ Amazon SageMaker Ground Truth announces new features to simplify workflows, new data labeling vendors, and expansion in the Asia Pacific region | https://aws.amazon.com/about-aws/whats-new/2019/04/amazon-sagemaker-ground-truth-announces-new-features-to-simplify/ Amazon Transcribe now supports real-time speech-to-text in British English, French, and Canadian French | https://aws.amazon.com/about-aws/whats-new/2019/04/amazon-transcribe-now-supports-real-time-speech-to-text-in-british-english-french-and-canadian-french/ Amazon Polly Adds Arabic Language Support | https://aws.amazon.com/about-aws/whats-new/2019/04/amazon-polly-adds-arabic-language-support/ Amazon Comprehend Now Supports Confusion Matrices for Custom Classification | https://aws.amazon.com/about-aws/whats-new/2019/04/amazon-comprehend-now-supports-confusion-matrices-for-custom-classification/ AWS DeepLens Introduces New Bird Classification Project Template | https://aws.amazon.com/about-aws/whats-new/2019/04/aws-deeplens-bird-classification/ Topic || Networking Amazon CloudFront enhances the security for adding alternate domain names to a distribution | https://aws.amazon.com/about-aws/whats-new/2019/04/amazon-cloudfront-enhances-the-security-for-adding-alternate-domain-names-to-a-distribution/ Amazon CloudFront is now Available in Mainland China | https://aws.amazon.com/about-aws/whats-new/2019/04/amazon-cloudfront-is-now-available-in-mainland-china/ Expanding AWS PrivateLink support for Amazon Kinesis Data Firehose | https://aws.amazon.com/about-aws/whats-new/2019/04/expanding_aws_privatelink_support_for_amazon_kinesis_data_firehose/ AWS Global Accelerator is Now Available in Six Additional Regions | https://aws.amazon.com/about-aws/whats-new/2019/04/aws-global-accelerator-is-now-available-in-six-additional-regions/ Topic || Customer Engagement Amazon Pinpoint Now Offers an Analytics Dashboard for Transactional SMS Messages | https://aws.amazon.com/about-aws/whats-new/2019/04/amazon-pinpoint-now-offers-an-analytics-dashboard-for-transactional-sms-messages/ Topic || Application Integration AWS AppSync Now Supports Tagging GraphQL APIs | https://aws.amazon.com/about-aws/whats-new/2019/04/aws-appsync-now-supports-tagging-graphql-apis/ Amazon MQ now supports ActiveMQ Minor Version 5.15.9 | https://aws.amazon.com/about-aws/whats-new/2019/04/amazon-mq-now-supports-activemq-minor-version-5-15-9/ Topic || Game Tech Amazon GameLift Realtime Servers Now Available | https://aws.amazon.com/about-aws/whats-new/2019/04/amazon-gameLift-realtime-servers-now-available/ Topic || Media Services AWS Elemental MediaPackage and MediaTailor improve support for DASH Endpoints and Monetization | https://aws.amazon.com/about-aws/whats-new/2019/04/aws-elemental-mediapackage-and-mediatailor-improve-support-for-dash-endpoints-and-monetization/ AWS Elemental MediaLive Offers Lower Cost Live Channels with Single-Pipeline Option | https://aws.amazon.com/about-aws/whats-new/2019/04/aws-elemental-medialive-offers-lower-cost-live-channels-with-single-pipeline-option/ Speed Up Video Processing With New Accelerated Transcoding in AWS Elemental MediaConvert | https://aws.amazon.com/about-aws/whats-new/2019/04/speed-up-video-processing-with-new-accelerated-transcoding-in-aws-elemental-mediaconvert/ AWS Elemental MediaStore Now Supports Chunked Object Transfer to Enable Ultra-Low Latency Video Workflows | https://aws.amazon.com/about-aws/whats-new/2019/04/aws-elemental-mediastore-now-supports-chunked-object-transfer-to-enabling-ultra-low-latency-video-workflows/ Topic || Management and Governance AWS CloudFormation Coverage Updates for Amazon EC2, Amazon ECS and Amazon Elastic Load Balancer | https://aws.amazon.com/about-aws/whats-new/2019/04/aws-cloudformation-coverage-updates-for-amazon-ec2--amazon-ecs-a/ AWS Systems Manager Session Manager Enables Session Encryption Using Customer Keys | https://aws.amazon.com/about-aws/whats-new/2019/04/AWS-Systems-Manager-Session-Manager-Enables-Session-Encryption-Using-Customer-Keys/ AWS Systems Manager Now Supports Use of Parameter Store at Higher API Throughput | https://aws.amazon.com/about-aws/whats-new/2019/04/aws_systems_manager_now_supports_use_of_parameter_store_at_higher_api_throughput/ AWS Systems Manager Parameter Store Introduces Advanced Parameters | https://aws.amazon.com/about-aws/whats-new/2019/04/aws_systems_manager_parameter_store_introduces_advanced_parameters/ Query AWS Regions Endpoints and More | https://aws.amazon.com/blogs/aws/new-query-for-aws-regions-endpoints-and-more-using-aws-systems-manager-parameter-store/ AWS Service Catalog Announces Tag Updating | https://aws.amazon.com/about-aws/whats-new/2019/04/aws-service-catalog-announces-tag-updating/ Topic || Robotics Announcing AWS RoboMaker Cloud Extensions for Robot Operating System (ROS) Melodic | https://aws.amazon.com/about-aws/whats-new/2019/04/announcing-aws-robomaker-cloud-extensions-for-robot-operating-sy/ NICE DCV Now Supports MacOS Native Clients | https://aws.amazon.com/about-aws/whats-new/2019/04/nice-dcv-now-supports-macos-native-clients/ Topic || Migration Announcing Azure to AWS migration support in AWS Server Migration Service | https://aws.amazon.com/about-aws/whats-new/2019/04/announcing_azure_awsmigration_servermigrationservice/ Topic || Security AWS Certificate Manager Private Certificate Authority is now available in five additional regions | https://aws.amazon.com/about-aws/whats-new/2019/04/AWS-Certificate-Manager-Private-Certificate-Authority-is-now-available-in-five-additional-regions/ AWS Single Sign-On now offers certificate customization to support your corporate policies | https://aws.amazon.com/about-aws/whats-new/2019/04/you-can-now-customize-the-aws-single-sign-on-certificate-to-meet-your-corporate-security-requirements/ Topic || Training and Certification AWS Certification Triples its Testing Locations, Making it Even More Convenient to Get Certified | https://aws.amazon.com/about-aws/whats-new/2019/04/aws-certification-triples-testing-locations/ Announcing the New AWS Certified Alexa Skill Builder - Specialty Exam | https://aws.amazon.com/about-aws/whats-new/2019/04/new-awsexam-certified-alexa-skill-builder-specialty/

01:12 - MIKMIDI The iPhreaks Show Episode #57: MIDI 02:17 - Adding Features or Changing the Way a Library Works in an Open Source Projects 04:49 - Deprecation 07:23 - Deprecation vs Replacing 09:37 - Semantic Versioning 15:14 - What is a breaking change? 17:51 - Choosing Issues and Bugs to Tackle; How long should it take? 24:31 - Maintainer Responsibility 26:33 - Being a Good Contributor; Documentation & Examples Contributor Covenant   31:01 - Using Badges 32:12 - How Travis CI Integrates with an Open Source Project ClangFormat 35:22 - Hosting for Open Source Projects GitHub Bitbucket Kiln 36:37 - Generated Documentation CocoaPods CocoaDocs Dash 39:07 - Licensing The MIT License The Apache License GPL License AGPL License 40:56 - What’s changed in MIKMIDI? (Since Episode #57) Picks The Big Star Story (Jaim) Searching for Sugar Man (Andrew) Erica Sadun: A handful of Swift style rules #swiftlang (Andrew) appledoc (Andrew) jazzy (Andrew) Toastmasters (Chuck)

01:12 - MIKMIDI The iPhreaks Show Episode #57: MIDI 02:17 - Adding Features or Changing the Way a Library Works in an Open Source Projects 04:49 - Deprecation 07:23 - Deprecation vs Replacing 09:37 - Semantic Versioning 15:14 - What is a breaking change? 17:51 - Choosing Issues and Bugs to Tackle; How long should it take? 24:31 - Maintainer Responsibility 26:33 - Being a Good Contributor; Documentation & Examples Contributor Covenant   31:01 - Using Badges 32:12 - How Travis CI Integrates with an Open Source Project ClangFormat 35:22 - Hosting for Open Source Projects GitHub Bitbucket Kiln 36:37 - Generated Documentation CocoaPods CocoaDocs Dash 39:07 - Licensing The MIT License The Apache License GPL License AGPL License 40:56 - What’s changed in MIKMIDI? (Since Episode #57) Picks The Big Star Story (Jaim) Searching for Sugar Man (Andrew) Erica Sadun: A handful of Swift style rules #swiftlang (Andrew) appledoc (Andrew) jazzy (Andrew) Toastmasters (Chuck)