Water In Food

Upcycled Food: the Climate Solution Sitting in Your Trash with Emily Lafferty and Amanda OenbringWhat if the future of food isn't about creating more, but wasting less? In this episode of The Drip, we sit down with Amanda Oenbring, CEO of the Upcycled Food Association, and Emily Lafferty, Director of Supply Chain at Seven Sundays, a breakfast brand rewriting the rules of what ends up on your plate.Together, they're part of a movement turning food system “waste” into something far more valuable: a solution. We go deep on the science, the systems, and the surprising innovations behind upcycled ingredients. Think of it as ingredient alchemy: transforming by-products into breakfast, and inefficiencies into impact.In this episode, you'll hear about:What counts as “upcycled”? The big problem with food waste – and the greatest opportunities for innovationReal-world examples: from by-products to breakfast The challenges of processing upcycled foodsPractical ways to plug into the upcycled food revolutionJump to:(00:07) Upcycling 101: What it really means(00:54) Meet Emily Lafferty and Amanda Oenbring(03:42) What is upcycled food, exactly?(05:09) Food waste: The hidden giant(07:26) Upcycled ingredients in action(09:10) Tech hurdles and how to solve them(18:57) This episode's song recommendation.(19:34) This episode's mantra.Featured Artist and Song:Pyaar by TroyboiLinks mentioned in this episode:Amanda Oenbring on LinkedInEmily Lafferty on LinkedInUpcycled Food AssociationSeven SundaysThe Highwomen by Crowded Table, music was chosen by AmandaSunday Vibes by Masego, music was chosen by EmilyConnect with the showAQUALABZachary Cartwright, PhD

Laura Lampa is a scientist turned communicator and the founder and CEO of LML StoryLab Consulting. She translates complex scientific concepts into compelling narratives that resonate with wider audiences. On this episode of The Drip, Laura outlines why some groundbreaking scientific innovations struggle to capture public attention and how the art of storytelling can be the key to bridging this critical gap.In this episode, you'll hear about:Key principles for translating science into stories.Using analogies to make science relatable.Strategies to improve communication in companies.Balancing accuracy and engagement in communication.Trends shaping the future of technical communication.Jump to:(00:53) Introduction to storytelling in science(03:46) Key principles for effective communication(07:22) Simplifying technical topics with real-world examples(11:53) Improving internal communication in companies(22:20) This episode's song recommendation.(23:12) This episode's mantra.00:00 "Communicating Breakthroughs: Science Storytelling"05:20 From Jargon to Relatable Science09:49 Effective Layered Communication Strategy12:52 Navigating Uncertainty in Mergers16:02 Effective Communication Drives Future Sales17:17 Content Trends: Visuals and Transparency20:59 Aqualab: Communicating Scientific InnovationsFeatured Artist and Song:Found Your Love by GrizLinks mentioned in this episode:Laura Lampa on LinkedInLML StoryLab Consulting"Just Can't Get Enough" by Depeche Mode, music was chosen by Laura LampaConnect with the showAQUALABZachary Cartwright, PhD

Ali Alwattari from Kraton Corporation has been working in product innovation for over 33 years, spanning industries from consumer goods to biotechnology and energy. His passion lies in integrating the human dimension and storytelling into scientific work, accelerating innovation and tackling challenges from the lab to the market. He joins The Drip to share his creative process and reflect on the unique products he's developed over his career.In this episode, you'll hear about:How phenomena like the surface tension of water can drive innovation across industriesBalancing reasoning and logic with creativity, termed as "realistic imagination"Stories detailing the development of unique products like artificial spider silk and waterproof mascaraHow looking to nature and unrelated industries can inspire breakthroughs … and practical advice for those starting in product innovationJump to:(00:53) Ali's journey in product innovation across diverse industries.(03:46) The significance of the human dimension in scientific work.(07:22) Realistic imagination's role in innovation.(11:53) Ali's creative process and examples of innovative projects.(25:47) The future of innovation in the food industry(29:59) Resources Ali recommends(36:44) This episode's song recommendation.(37:29) This episode's mantra.Featured Artist and Song:Ease My Mindy by Chris LakeLinks mentioned in this episode:Kraton Corporation‘Disruptive Innovation' by Clayton Christensen'Rules for Revolutionaries' by Guy Kawasaki‘Entrepreneurs in High Technology' by Dr. RobertsViva La Vida by Coldplay, music was chosen by Ali AlwattariConnect with the showAQUALABZachary Cartwright, PhD00:00 Reusable Skills Drive Success04:26 Empathy and Emotion in Innovation08:46 Translating Concepts into Scientific Terms11:40 Nature-Inspired Water-Repellent Textiles15:52 Innovative Mascara Formulation Insights18:57 Dimples Revolutionize Gel Adhesion20:16 Shaving Gel Chemistry Evolution23:17 Simplified Product Development Framework27:00 Need-Driven Innovation in Food Industry32:31 "Professionalizing Innovation and Mentorship"35:46 "Product Innovation & Music Groove"37:49 Strength Over Struggle

Anđela Martinović holds a PhD in Food Systems from the University of Milan, specializing in probiotics and gut health. As a co-founder and program development coordinator at epiSTEMe Hub, she advances science, innovation, and technology with a focus on Montenegro. Angela joins The Drip to explore the complexities of probiotics, from production to their journey in the human GI system, and the role multidisciplinary research plays in this field.In this episode, you'll hear about:Definition of probiotics and key production/ regulation challengesStages of production and importance of probiotic survival and functionalityRole of water activity in preservation and gut survival challengesAngela's PhD insights on probiotics and Montenegro's marketEmerging trends, future directions, and AI in probioticsJump to:(00:53) Understanding the definition and challenges of probiotics.(03:46) Overview of the probiotic production process.(07:22) Importance of water activity in probiotics' journey through the gut.(09:52) Angela's PhD research insights on probiotic survival and functionality.(13:46) Analyzing the probiotic market in Montenegro.(18:10) Future directions and emerging trends in probiotics(26:05) This episode's song recommendation.(26:45) This episode's mantra.Featured Artist and Song:Push the Tempo by Sub FocusLinks mentioned in this episode:Anđela Martinović's workAnđela Martinović on LinkedIn‘Uncovering the Probiotic Supplement Landscape: Market Offerings, Sales Patterns, and Future Forecasts Using Machine Learning Approach - A Case Study of Montenegro' by Anđela Martinović et. al (2024)Spread Your Wings by Queen, music was chosen by Anđela MartinovićConnect with the showAQUALABZachary Cartwright, PhD00:00 Probiotic Survival and Functionality05:04 Optimizing Probiotic Production Factors07:03 Ensuring Probiotic Stability: Key Factors11:45 Streptococcus Thermophilus' Urase Activity Reduction14:59 Enhancing Standards and Analyzing Sales18:10 Multidisciplinary Collaboration Key to Probiotic Innovation20:31 Emerging Trends in Probiotics26:17 "Push the Temple" Review27:07 "Releasing Toxicity: The Drip"

Abigail Thiel is a Food Scientist and YouTuber of ‘Abbey the Food Scientist'. She is a postdoctoral researcher at Wageningen University in the Netherlands, focusing on food quality and design, with a particular interest in ice cream microstructure, healthier fat alternatives, and sustainable food production. She joins The Drip to delve into the fascinating world of ice cream science, from its microstructure to the intricacies of creating healthier and more sustainable sweet treats.In this episode, you'll hear about:What are the ice cream terms "variegates" and "inclusions”?Understanding the healthier fats in ice cream.Creating a food science YouTube channel.Precision fermentation: milk proteins from yeast.00:00 Ice Cream Texture Research Funding03:48 Started YouTube During Covid Lockdown08:40 Yeast-Based Milk Protein Production12:50 Abby's Food Science Courses Online15:31 Tackling Ice Cream Moisture Migration16:36 "Mesmerizing Down Tempo Collaboration"Jump to:(00:53) How Abby started studying the science of ice cream through a USDA-funded project focusing on healthier fats.(03:46) The difference between variegates and inclusions and their importance in ice cream.(07:22) Balancing texture and health in food, and how it is a central theme in Abby's research.(11:53) Abby's venture into YouTube during the COVID-19 lockdown.(14:37) This episode's song recommendation.(15:28) This episode's mantra.Featured Artist and Song:Liftoff by Adastra and Bethany AgustinLinks mentioned in this episode:Abbey the Food Scientist – WebsiteAbbey the Food Scientist – YouTubeAbigail Thiel on LinkedInWageningen UniversityTaylor Swift, music was chosen by Abigail ThielConnect with the showAQUALABZachary Cartwright, PhD

Rachel Zemser from A La Carte Connections is a lifelong food scientist and consultant, dedicated to helping companies formulate and develop innovative food products. She is the author of "The Food Business Toolkit for Entrepreneurs" and holds degrees in food science from the University of Massachusetts Amherst and the University of Illinois. She has also attended culinary school in New York. Rachel joins The Drip by AQUALAB to explore the intricacies of food science consulting and entrepreneurial challenges in the food industry.00:00 Food Science Consulting Insights05:26 Entrepreneurs Vs. Big Brand Ingredients08:23 Designing a Custom Snack Bar13:02 Finding the Right Co-Packer14:14 Evaluating Co-Packer Suitability19:52 Preparing for Food Science Consulting21:14 Essential Skills for Food Consultants26:51 Food Science Consulting Expertise28:08 Song and Mantra for UpliftmentIn this episode, you'll hear about:Rachel's productivity hacks for self-employment success.Key tips for developing successful food products.Importance of water activity in dry foods.From Unilever to startups: Rachel's career insights.Featured Artist and Song:Here with Me by MarshmelloLinks mentioned in this episode:A La Carte ConnectionsRachel Zemser on LinkedInStrange Currencies by REM, music was chosen by Rachel ZemserConnect with the showAQUALABZachary Cartwright, PhD

Dr. Carolyn Ross is a professor of food science and the director of the Washington State University School of Food Science. Her expertise covers sensory science, human perception of food textures, and the formulation of food products tailored to different populations. She joins The Drip to unpack texture's critical role in food acceptance and how this knowledge can be leveraged to design foods for diverse groups, from children with Down syndrome to older adults.00:00 Understanding food texture is crucial for acceptance.03:52 Down syndrome: 80% have eating and swallowing difficulties.07:35 Individual consumer needs shape food product development.10:16 Behavioral and preference studies on children, adults.16:02 Include targeted users in product design decisions.18:28 Water activity affects food consistency over time.21:49 AQUALAB collaboration enhances food sensory evaluation.23:53 Mantra: "I'm brave enough to climb any mountain."

Roman Libov is a food scientist specializing in plant-based foods and the incorporation of bioactive and psychoactive fungi into nutraceuticals. In this episode of The Drip, we learn about Roman's journey from mental health to food science. We explore the challenges and innovations in incorporating psychoactive fungi into food products, the intersection of food science and psychedelics, and the promising future of fungi in the food industry and mental health therapeutics.In this episode, you'll hear about:The rise of fungi in functional foodsStability challenges with psilocybin in beveragesThe future of psychedelic consumptionRegulatory challenges in consumer testing… and how fungi can improve public health outcomesJump to:(03:45) What is fungi's nutritional, medicinal, and sensory potential?(06:59) How psilocybin affects brain serotonin receptors and the “Entourage Effect”.(11:50) The importance of water activity for bioactive preservation.(13:25) How psilocybin stability is affected by environmental factors.(16:54) Why fungi are gaining popularity in health food.(22:28) This episode's song recommendation.(23:26) This episode's mantra.00:00 Fungi's future role: food, health, psychedelics, innovation.04:19 Fungi offer innovative, eco-friendly food solutions.08:36 Psychoactive fungi consumed as gummies or chocolates.10:27 Maintaining bioactive compounds' stability in food matrices.13:24 Psilocybin stability affected by processing and elements.16:54 Fungi increasingly popular in food and health.21:55 Sponsored content about fungi ingredients and music.23:52 Embrace authenticity and self-understanding; stay hydrated.Featured Artist and Song:Where You Are by John SummitLinks mentioned in this episode:Roman Libov on LinkedIn‘Virtual Reality as a Moderator of Psychedelic-Assisted Psychotherapy' by Agnieszka D. Sekula, Luke Downey, Prashanth Puspanathan (2022)‘Psychoactive Fungi Formulations in Nutritive and Palatable Food Matrices: Options for Clinical and Non-clinical Use' by Roman Libov (2023)‘Psychedelics and virtual reality: parallels and applications' by Jacob S. Aday, Christopher C. Davoli, Emily K. Bloesch (2020)My Time by Sultan + Shepard, music was chosen by Roman LibovConnect with the showAQUALABZachary Cartwright, PhD

Lovedeep Kaur is an Associate Professor at Massey University in New Zealand. Her specialties include sustainable food processing technologies, circular food systems, and innovative food processing. She joins The Drip to unpack the cutting-edge innovations she is seeing that are transforming the way we process and enjoy meat. In this episode, you'll hear about:Understanding new technologies like high-pressure processing and microwave-assisted thermal sterilizationHow enzymatic hydrolysis enhances flavors and nutritional value by breaking down proteinsCombining plant and animal proteins with 3D food printingHow less popular cuts like brisket are getting a makeover … and how these innovations will be able to lower the cost of meatJump to:(00:53) How sustainable technology boosts efficient, waste-free meat processing.(03:46) The ways of enhancing meat flavour, texture and safety.(07:22) Key technologies that improve protein digestibility and nutrient preservation.(11:53) Factoring in food safety and public health.(14:37) This episode's song recommendation.(15:28) This episode's mantra.Featured Artist and Song:Run Wtih Me by KaivonLinks mentioned in this episode:‘High pressure processing of meat: Effects on ultrastructure and protein digestibility' (2016) by Lovedeep Kaur et al.Massey UniversityHass Hass, by Diljit Dosanjh x Sia, music was chosen by Lovedeep KaurConnect with the showAQUALABZachary Cartwright, PhD00:00 New tech aids sustainable meat processing practices.03:46 Innovative technologies enhance food flavor and texture.07:22 Advanced technologies improve protein digestibility and nutrient preservation.11:53 Technologies improve health, nutrition, and food safety.13:47 AQUALAB helps the meat industry with moisture control.

Alyssa Norris is the Director of Sustainability at Aether Fuels. She sits down with Zachary Cartwright to discuss how we can produce aviation fuel from waste, and how you don't have to choose between seeing the world and saving it. Alyssa will shed light on the production, impact, and future of this fuel. We'll also discuss its current usage, the processes involved, and how it plays a crucial role in reducing greenhouse gas emissions and supporting a circular economy. In this episode, you'll hear about:What is sustainable aviation fuel (SAF)?Suitability of SAF versus electric aircraft for long-haul flightsHow to overcome the unwanted presence of water in jet fuelInnovative aspects of Aether's technologyWhat does a Director of Sustainability do for a company like Aether? Jump to:(03:44) SAF is made from hydrogen, carbon, and waste materials.(08:41) Airlines will adopt sustainable fuel, therefore lowering costs.(10:25) Why electric flight tech lags and SAF infrastructure is more simple.(14:04) Being a startup leader focusing on sustainability and compliance.(16:07) Which flight operators are currently using SAF?(20:35) This episode's song recommendation.(21:22) This episode's mantra.Featured Artist and Song:Ice Cream Paint Job by SoDownLinks mentioned in this episode:Aether FuelsSAF Grand ChallengeDepartment of EnergySustainable Aviation Buyers AllianceEco-Skies AllianceEveryone Deserves The Chance To Fly by WICKED, music was chosen by Alyssa NorrisConnect with the showAQUALABZachary Cartwright, PhD00:00 SAF reduces emissions, fossil reliance, and aids sustainability.03:44 SAF uses hydrogen, carbon, and various waste sources.08:46 Increasing SAF adoption will reduce its cost.10:15 SAF enables existing infrastructure use, batteries are inefficient.14:03 Startup focuses on sustainability, compliance, and stakeholder engagement.16:05 Alaska and United boost sustainable aviation fuel initiatives.19:50 Aqualab sponsors moisture analysis in fuels discussion.

Ravi Karkara and Vinay Indraganti, from AI For Food Global Initiative, join the Drip to discuss their new book ‘The AI for Food Movement'. We'll explore how AI is transforming food production, from creating consistent culinary experiences to enhancing sustainability. Tune in as we address challenges like AI adoption fears and data integration, the role in flavor development and personalized dining, and manufacturing efficiencies. In this episode, you'll hear about:Flavor and texture customization through AIThe use of AI  in R&D, production, and logisticsRevolutionizing quality control in food production with computer visionHow AI ensures consistent and repeatable food experiencesEthical considerations in automationJump to:(03:39) How big data optimizes farming and food logistics.(08:25) Sustainability innovations in agriculture: AI, emissions and drones.(10:58) How AI enhances sensory neuroscience and flavor chemistry.(17:10) The AI vending machine which offers customizable drink combinations.(24:09) There is a need to promote positive AI perception in processed food.(26:26) Mastering AI involves data integration and artistry.(30:08) Building AI-skilled professionals for sustainable food production.(33:44) Establish boundaries, evaluate regularly, and address ethical implications.(36:08) Food's cultural, political, and religious dimensions influence meaning.(41:40) This episode's song recommendation(42:24) This episode's mantraFeatured Artist and Song:Places to Be by Fred again..Links mentioned in this episode:SKALA for Moisture ControlAI For Food Global InitativeConnect with the showAQUALABZachary Cartwright, PhD

Matthew Moore is an Associate Professor at the University of Massachusetts, Department of Food Science who is recognized for his groundbreaking research on foodborne pathogens. In this episode, we'll tackle the risks of influenza H5N1 jumping to mammals and debunk misconceptions about foodborne illnesses, especially noroviruses. We'll also explore cutting-edge virus detection methods using magnetic liquids and nanopore technology, and discuss the impact of climate change on virus transmission. In this episode, you'll hear about:Viral vs. bacterial foodborne illnessesHow do noroviruses survive the journey through your body?The impact of climate change on foodborne viruses and mycotoxinsCutting-edge work in virus detection and concentrationWhy policy matters when it comes to controlling outbreaks… and why it's not just cruise ships affected by norovirusesJump to:(05:56) Viruses must withstand harsh conditions to infect.(08:14) Key Nnorovirus research: viral entry, replication, and ongoing breakthroughs.(12:56) Using bacteria to capture viruses cost-effectively.(14:04) Engineering E. Coli for norovirus detection and collaboration.(17:08) Fingerprint norovirus to identify outbreaks accurately.(23:50) Researching virus resistance to disinfectants and application.(25:20) Students advancing magnetic liquids for virus detection.(29:05) How climate change and mycotoxins affect food safety.(33:01) Current H5N1 risk to humans remains low.(36:00) The guest's favorite artist and song(38:34) Featured artist and song(39:13) This episode's MantraFeatured Artist and Song:Falling Flying by GRiZLinks mentioned in this episode:University of Massachusetts, Department of Food ScienceDr Matthew Moore's current researchOutstanding Young Scientist Award in honor of Samuel Cate PrescottCalculating Infinity by The Dillinger Escape Plan, music was chosen by Matthew MooreConnect with the showAQUALABZachary Cartwright, PhD

Mario Gonzalez Angulo is the HPP Food Applications Manager at Hiperbaric High Pressure Technologies. Curious about how your guacamole stays fresh? High Pressure Processing (HPP) is a non-thermal food preservation method that harnesses oceanic-level pressures to inactivate foodborne pathogens and extend the shelf life of various products… all while preserving their nutritional and sensory qualities. We'll explore the history, application, and potential of this revolutionary technology, as well as its effects on the molecular level. In this episode, you'll hear about:The journey of HPP from its first mention in 1899What food products are benefiting from HPP – from guacamole to baby foodWhy water activity needs to be between 0.97 and 1 for optimal HPP effectivenessHow the method keeps your food pathogen-free AND flavorfulHow the applications of HPP extend beyond foodJump to:(04:43) pH and water activity determine microbial inactivation.(06:54) How pressure affects weak bonds, not strong covalent bonds.(12:50) Why clostridium botulinum struggles to grow in coconut water.(16:54) The guest's favorite artist and song(20:30) Featured artist and song(22:31) This episode's MantraFeatured Artist and Song:Cheshmhaye Tameshki by Marjan Farsad, sung by Roodabeh DerakhshanianLinks mentioned in this episode:Hiperbaric High Pressure TechnologiesThe Scientist by Coldplay, music was chosen by Mario Gonzalez AnguloConnect with the showAQUALABZachary Cartwright, PhD

Subhendu Nayak is the Director of Formulation (Probiotics and Herbal) at Vida Herbs. He joins The Drip to talk about the complexities of manufacturing, from blending to storage, and the crucial role of water activity in maintaining probiotic potency. We'll also explore the nuances between CFU and AFU measurements and discuss innovative yet straightforward solutions. In this episode, you'll hear about:Water activity in probioticsColony Forming Units (CFU) versus Active Fluorescent Units (AFU)Spore-forming, non-spore-forming, and next-generation typesManufacturing processes like blending, encapsulation, and packagingHow keeping solutions uncomplicated can lead to better success and innovationJump to:(03:39) How AW measures the vapor pressure ratio in foods.(08:01) Minimize water activity to prevent probiotic die-off.(10:12) Molecular sieves control water activity and maintain potency.(15:20) Preferred sugar alcohols for coolness.(17:34) Granular ingredients ensure better stick-pack sealing.(22:54) Water activity control in oil prevents decay.(25:39) Plate counting measures CFU per gram. (30:20) Viable but unculturable cell health benefits questioned.(32:41) The guest's favorite artist and song(35:09) Featured artist and song(38:25) This episode's MantraFeatured Artist and Song:Sometimes Somehow by Eric E.Links mentioned in this episode:Vidya HerbsOne Dance by Drake, music was chosen by SubhenduConnect with the showAQUALABZachary Cartwright, PhD

Marcus Washington is the co-founder of FSQA Help in Oklahoma. Marcus joins The Drip to address the challenges faced by emerging food brands, the importance of understanding regulations, and the role of consulting in maintaining compliance. He also shares his experiences managing a small farm, the science behind animal health, and his entrepreneurial journey of his own food business. In this episode, you'll hear about:Understanding and complying with FDA and USDA regulations.A unique perspective on food safety from having managed a small farmThe science behind feeding farm animalsWhy local state regulations can be a lifeline for startupsHow to better integrate preharvest food safety knowledgeJump to:(05:48) Navigating food classification regulations.(07:40) Why is ensuring animal safety vital for food safety?(13:36) Key lessons from Grad school farm visits.(14:53) Promote food safety through farm relationships and volunteering.(20:13 Decision-making is like playing poker in life.(18:58) The guest's favorite artist and song(23:24) Featured artist and song(24:22) This episode's MantraFeatured Artist and Song:NRG by PiCO THE GUYOLinks mentioned in this episode:FSQA HelpHomemade Food Freedom ActPink Friday 2 by Nicki Minaj, music was chosen by Marcus WashingtonConnect with the showAQUALABZachary Cartwright, PhD

Transforming Invasive Plants into Valuable Resources – The Biochar Solution with Pratikshya SilwalPratikshya Silwal recently finished for PhD in agricultural economics from Oklahoma State University. She joins The Drip to share how biochar, a form of charcoal produced through pyrolysis, can be used as a sustainable additive in potting mixes. We'll uncover how it can replace conventional components, the size and growth of the global biochar market, and its environmental impact. Pratikshya also shares insights into her groundbreaking research on converting the problematic eastern red cedar tree into valuable biochar and discusses consumer willingness to adopt this innovative product.  In this episode, you'll hear about:What is biochar, and how is it produced through pyrolysis?The factors that are driving the growth of the global biochar marketHow biochar in soil contributes to the reduction of greenhouse gas emissionsPratikshya's research on using the invasive eastern red cedar… and which other plant species can be used to produce biocharJump to:(01:05) What is biochar?(03:39) How the invasive eastern red cedar threatens ecosystems and agriculture.(07:32) Some studies show negative effects of biochar.(12:14) The power of the optimistic mindset: everything happens for the best.(14:44) Featured artist and song(15:46) This episode's MantraFeatured Artist and Song:Midnight Thoughts by McNastyLinks mentioned in this episode:Oklahoma State University‘Role of biochar toward carbon neutrality' by Liuwei Wang, Jiayu Deng, Xiaodong Yang, Renjie Hou and Deyi HouOne Love by Blue, music was chosen by Pratikshya SilwalConnect with the showAQUALABZachary Cartwright, PhD

Breanna Neff from brelixi, delves into the innovation of nanoemulsified technology in the cannabis space. As a certified food scientist and founder, she shares her expertise on the advancements of nano-infused edibles, the benefits of different cannabinoids, and her journey in creating functional cannabis products. We'll also explore the science behind fast-acting cannabis, the diverse consumer market, and how her company is overcoming social stigmas associated with edibles.In this episode, you'll hear about:What are the different forms of cannabis edibles?How nanoemulsified technology enhances the bioavailability of cannabinoidsThe development approach of new flavors for brelixi productsHow the cannabis industry faces social stigmaEnsuring compliance with federal regulations for shippingJump to:(05:00) How brelixi offers fast-acting cannabis wellness products.(09:22) Turmeric's anti-inflammatory benefits and market research.(10:17) How small businesses can overcome challenges through networking.(13:21) The guest's favorite artist and song(16:34) Featured artist and song(18:06) This episode's MantraFeatured Artist and Song:RIGHT NOW by NASTY CATLinks mentioned in this episode:brelixiFeel Good Inc. by Gorillaz, music was chosen by Breanna NeffConnect with the showAQUALABZachary Cartwright, PhD

Marlana Malerich from Adapted Co, is the Co-Founder and Sustainable Food Systems Researcher at the Rooted Research Collective (RRC). Marlana, poised to begin her PhD at Sussex University, has spent the last six months focused on ultra-processed foods and plant-based meat alternatives. She joins the show to unpack the complexities of defining and understanding ultra-processed foods through systems like NOVA and Nutri-Score. In this episode, you'll hear about:The NOVA nutritional framework vs the Nutri-score system The history behind hyper palatability of ultra-processed foods – and its link with tobacco companiesIssues with moisture sorting affecting shelf life and texturePros and cons between plant-based and animal-based productsBalancing your diet while navigating the complexity of food classification systemsJump to:(03:50) Negative effects of globally distributed junk food.(08:18) Focus on alternative proteins, and challenges with food advertising.(11:07) Media focusing on ultra-processed foods labeling.(14:38) Ultra-processed foods are designed for overconsumption.(20:07) Plant-based options vary in nutrition quality.(23:39 Reminding myself to appreciate being here alive.(26:50) Featured artist and song(29:09) This episode's MantraFeatured Artist and Song:Deep Mind by ROBMONLinks mentioned in this episode:‘Nutrition and health. The issue is not food, nor nutrients, so much as processing' by Carlos A Monteiro‘The Impact of Transnational ‘‘Big Food'' Companies on the South: A View from Brazil' by Carlos A Monteiro‘Ultra-processed foods: how functional is the NOVA system?' by Véronique Braesco, et alIs the Ultra-processed Food (UPF) concept useful, and for what goals?‘Ultra-processed food exposure and adverse health outcomes: umbrella review of epidemiological meta-analyses' by Melissa M Lane et al‘Food Politics' by Marion NesselAlabora (Foxall Pale Blue Remix) by Beyhude, music was chosen by Marlana MalerichConnect with the showAQUALABZachary Cartwright, PhD

Navigating Food Safety Challenges: Bruce Ferree's 40-Year Career in Food ScienceBruce Ferree, a food safety consultant, unpacks the world of food safety and quality management. Bruce's career spans over four decades, encompassing meats, poultry, dairy, and aseptic processing roles. He's a distinguished member of the Institute of Food Technologists and a former US Marine and cancer survivor. Bruce shares valuable insights from his vast experience in the food industry, the evolution of food safety culture, and the significance of consistency, continuous improvement, and prevention.In this episode, you'll hear about:The key changes in the culture of food safety and quality over Bruce's careerThe importance of CCP (Consistency, Continuous Improvement, and Prevention)Military discipline transferred to food scienceHow surviving cancer influenced Bruce's perspective on life and workSome key strategies that professional organizations like IFT can adopt to effectively convey scientific information to consumersJump to:(05:03) Workers who take ownership of quality and safety.(07:14) Integration of quality teams for efficient collaboration.(12:39) Challenges in food safety mirror cancer survival.(17:09) Diverse food scientists unite in global organization.(19:13) Pesticides, heavy metals and public awareness.(25:00) Featured artist and song(25:57) This episode's MantraFeatured Artist and Song:QUEMA by NASTY CATLinks mentioned in this episode:Institute of Food TechnologistsBang the Drum All Day by Todd Rundgren, music was chosen by Bruce Ferree.Connect with the showAQUALABZachary Cartwright, PhD

Digitizing Food Safety: Innovations in Middle East and North Africa with Fidele El AchkarFidele El Achkar is the visionary founder of FoodSight, an initiative aimed at revolutionizing the food industry in the Middle East and North Africa. By digitizing food safety and industry activities, Fidele seeks to modernize traditional practices, ensuring they align with global trends. FoodSight fosters collaboration among freelancers, international experts, and service providers, creating an ecosystem where stakeholders work together using a customized approach. In this episode, you'll hear about:Addressing food safety issues in Lebanon and the MENA regionHow FoodSight is uniting industry stakeholders and creating job opportunitiesThe digitization of food industry activities and how it's revolutionizing food safety and efficiencyAssisting producers with export and compliance issuesHow other regions around the world can learn from the success of FoodSightJump to:(05:19) How FoodSight aims to unite industry stakeholders and create job opportunities.(07:01) Assisting producers with export and compliance issues.(11:58) Experts fill out detailed profiles and questionnaires.(16:17) Repositioning FoodSights as a social enterprise and expanding globally.(19:44) This episode's song.(21:40) This episode's mantra.Featured Artist and Song:FIGHT 4 ME by NASTY CATLinks mentioned in this episode:FoodSightFidele El Ackhar on LinkedInWoman by Andreya Triana,a song recommendation by Fidele El AchkarConnect with the showAQUALABZachary Cartwright, PhD

Angela Anandappa, Ph. D. is the founding director of the Alliance for Advanced Sanitation. Anandappa is an experienced food safety industry professional having worked in the supply chain, product development, and sanitation areas of the food manufacturing industry. In this episode we unpack the alarming prevalence of microplastics, explore their pathways into our food supply, and discuss the potential solutions and innovations in sustainable packaging. In this episode, you'll hear about:The average intake of microplastics by an AmericanUnderstanding the complexities of recycling and how to overcome themAdvanced sanitation's role in integrating sustainability with food safety Strategies for significantly reducing microplastics' impactA call for a more unified and capable recycling system within the USJump to:(04:29) How consumers are influenced by multiple sustainability standards and options.(09:02) The Animal Digestible Food Packaging Initiative's mission for sustainability.(11:33) Why the food industry must take action to reduce microplastics.(14:51) How to not be overwhelmed by fighting climate change.(17:11) Featured artist and song.(19:17) This episode's Mantra.Featured Artist and Song:2L8 by NASTY CATLinks mentioned in this episode:Alliance for Advanced SanitationAnimal Digestible Food Packaging InitiativeJason Mraz,  music was chosen by Angela AnandappaConnect with the showAQUALABZachary Cartwright, PhD

The Truth About Raw Milk: Breaking Down the Risks with Savana Everhart NunnSavana Everhart Nunn, PhD in One Health Sciences from Texas Tech University, joins the show to share why the US government agencies caution against consuming raw milk. We also explore the implications of not pasteurizing milk, and Savana's groundbreaking research on mastitis in dairy cattle. Whether you're a food science enthusiast or just curious about the science behind your daily foods… you're in the right place.In this episode, you'll hear about:What does pasteurization involve and why is it necessary for milk safety?Who is at greater risk when consuming raw milk?The pathogenic bacteria most commonly found in raw milkHow animal health directly impacts food safety and human healthHow Savana helped pioneer a PhD program in One Health SciencesJump to:(06:07) Why HTST is the common pasteurization method in the US.(08:41) The negligible benefits and risks of drinking raw milk.(11:44) Penicillin resistance in US dairy.(13:50) The challenges of grad school and coping with mental health.(19:28) The scientists analyzing big data to solve problems.(21:41) Passionate about zoonoses and improving animal health.(25:14) Featured artist and song(26:03) This episode's MantraFeatured Artist and Song:THE SMOKE by CΔTΔLYSTLinks mentioned in this episode:‘Factors Surrounding the Implementation of Food Safety Management Systems and Their Impact on Food Safety Culture' by Savana Everhart Nunn‘Cross-Contamination to Surfaces in Consumer Kitchens Using MS2 as a Tracer Organism in Ground Turkey Patties' by Savana Everhart Nunn, et al.Institute for One Health InnovationEuclid by Sleep Token, music recommended by Savana Everhart Nunn.Connect with the showAQUALAB

Today, we dive into the intriguing world of wine, exploring why some bottles can unpleasantly surprise your senses with aromas resembling barnyards or dirty socks. Drawing from my doctoral research on the pesky wine spoilage yeast, Brettanomyces bruxellensis, at Washington State University under Dr. Edwards, I'll unpack how this microorganism infiltrates wineries and impacts your wine's bouquet. From unsettling findings in vineyard pumice to the challenges of eradicating Brett from oak barrels, join me as we unravel the complexities of wine microbiology.In this episode, you'll hear about:What causes wine spoilageUsed barrels, insects, and bulk wineCompounds produced by Brettanomyces and their effectsStudy on the survival of Brettanomyces in vineyard conditions… and how to control Brettanomyces populationsJump to:(03:22) How compounds in wine create various aromas.(07:20) Studying Brettanomyces survival in Washington vineyards.(10:16) Heating methods and effects on oak barrels.(12:53) How Brettanomyces populations in oak barrels are affected.(18:26) This episode's song and mantra.This episodes song and artist:SOULMATESCΔTΔLYSTLinks mentioned in this episode:‘Survival of Brettanomyces bruxellensis in grape pomace and reduction of populations by application of heat and sulfites' by Z.M. Cartwright and B.R. Bondada‘Application of Heated Water to Reduce Populations of Brettanomyces bruxellensis Present in Oak Barrel Staves' by Z.M. Cartwright and Charles G EdwardsConnect with the showAQUALAB

I'm your host, Zachary Cartwright, and today marks our 40th episode - a special milestone. To celebrate, we've got an equally special guest joining us, Ashutosh Jaiswal, a wizard in the world of food safety and a driving force in quality assurance with over a decade of experience at Sri Dut India Private Limited.Ashutosh shares his journey, from his formative years influenced by family ties to agriculture and the food industry to his current role, where he passionately oversees quality assurance and food safety. He's not only worked to earn the prestigious American Institute of Baking Certification and the National Confederation of Indian Industry Food Safety Award but also poured half his salary into food safety education to fuel his dreams. 

Today, we delve deep into the science and innovation with Michelle Schwenk, the president and food science consultant at Bellis Food Solutions in Decatur, Illinois. Bellis is a company renowned for its insights into formula development, technical guidance, and testing for the food industry, working with everything from candy to dairy. We reveal the joy of coupling water science with food processing. From the process of creating unique food products to understanding the importance of water activity and isotherms in maintaining food quality and predicting shelf life - we've got it all.Michelle's got some fascinating stories about troubleshooting tricky food formulas and how her expertise in water activity came into play. We'll hear about the intriguing transformation story of sticky gummies and the low sugar product category, which Michelle describes as a challenge in the food industry. So food nerds and innovators alike, let's get ready to dive into an enriching conversation filled with the complexities of food science, obstacles, and advances in our industry. This is an episode every food-preneur be they seasoned or budding shouldn't miss.

In today's episode, we have a special guest, Dr. Milda Embuscado, a distinguished scientist at McCormick and Company. Dr. Embuscado is an expert in materials and processing technology, with a focus on powder science and technology, flavor compounds, flavor encapsulation, and food emulsions. She shares her insights on the role of water activity measurements and moisture absorption isotherms in understanding ingredients and developing new products. 

Today, we have a very special guest, Ian Fretheim, joining us from Cafe Imports. Ian is the Director of Sensory Analysis, where he passionately explores the depths of coffee quality. He's not just an observer but a hands-on enthusiast who dedicates his talents to ensuring the highest standards of coffee.In the quality control lab, Ian's daily routine involves processing an astounding number of taste-bud signals. He's like a sensory superhero, utilizing his seventh, ninth, and tenth cranial nerves to decipher the intricate flavors and nuances of coffee. This is no small feat, and Ian's expertise is pivotal in the pursuit of the perfect brew.But Ian's involvement doesn't stop there. He can also be found meticulously preparing, roasting, and cataloging green-coffee samples. His involvement in every step of the coffee journey ensures that every cup is a masterpiece in itself.In today's episode, we delve into Ian's remarkable long-term observational study on water activity in specialty green coffee. This research is a testament to his dedication and passion for understanding every aspect of coffee. What's even more exciting is that Ian has some intriguing updates and insights to share since completing the study in 2019.So, without further ado, let's dive into the world of coffee science and hear what Ian has to say on this episode of "Water in Food." Get ready for a caffeinated journey of knowledge and flavor.

We had the recent pleasure of talking with Rob Rebich, Co-Founder of AUPA, a company on a dedicated mission to provide customers with convenient, nutrition-packed meat-based snacks, all free from harmful industrial additives. Rob's vision is to champion small, local regenerative farms and ranches by sourcing ingredients locally, thereby contributing to a broader transformation aimed at enhancing the entire food system.AUPA firmly believes that incorporating animal products is a key element of a healthy diet, and they're excited to introduce the AUPA bar!

Today my guest is Dr. Imran Ahmad, a Research Assistant Professor at Florida International University where he is part of the Food Agriculture and Biotechnology Lab. This lab focuses on four core areas of food and beverage science including 1) studying product and process development for optimization of safety and quality, 2) developing novel microbes for commercial applications, 3) investigating sensory and consumer behavior, and 4) conformance with regulations. Dr. Ahmad has postharvest and food process engineering expertise haven't and is a Lead Instructor for Produce Safety and Preventive Control Rules.  Let's hear what he says on this episode of Water in Food.

In this episode of Water In Food, we explore two new technologies that have the potential to revolutionize food safety. The first is hyperspectral imaging, and the second is ultra-fine bubbles, which can increase the potency of antimicrobial solutions and promote the growth of probiotics in milk products. Our guest speaker is a food scientist passionate about dairy and microbiology. He teaches food science and conducts research in a dairy microbiology lab nationally recognized for its work in hyperspectral imaging and other technologies. Additionally, we discuss the potential of these technologies and how they can improve food safety and extend the shelf life of products.Dr. Minto Michael is an assistant professor of dairy science at Washington State University, where he has the main responsibility for conducting research, taking up 70% of his time, and teaching, taking up 30%. He is considered an expert in dairy microbiology, food safety, product development, and dairy processing, as he spends a significant part of his time validating his findings. Notably, he was hired to create a strong dairy science program at WSU.

We sit down with Suresh Chander, R&D lead at Arboreal Stevia! Learn more about the sugar substitute and its various implications in food production. Discover what misconceptions exist around it, plus weigh up some of the pros and cons of this unique sweetener on our latest episode of Water In Food.

Today my guest is Adam Yee, the podcast host of My Food Job Rocks! He interviews people from the food industry and discusses why they love their jobs and how they got to where they are today. With over 250 episodes and hundreds of blog posts about career advice, Adam's goal is to show that the food industry is full of intelligent, driven, and passionate people. Today, the podcast has been downloaded over 150,000 times and his website has over half a million views, helping those interested in learning more about the food industry and helping other food scientists network and grow their skills. Let's hear what Adam has to say on this episode of Water In Food.  

This week on Water in Food is Dr. Jennifer Acuff from the University of Arkansas System Division of Agriculture. She's also an assistant professor of food microbiology and safety in the department of food science at Dale Bumpers College. Currently, her focus is microbial contamination in low-moisture foods, including products like spices, nuts, dried fruits, and powders. Her goal is to expand the body of knowledge about pathogen contamination in low-moisture foods and conduct applied research that provides real solutions. Then, she will also identify ways to present food safety training to help small food processors in order to comply with the Food Safety Modernization Act.  Hear what Dr. Acuff has to say on Water in Food.

Welcome to another episode of Water in Food. Today my guest is Dr. Berkley Luck, who is the Co-Founder and COO of Milkify. This was the very first company to offer a service for nursing mothers that enables them to safely powder their breast milk for storage and convenience. By understanding water activity, Dr. Luck's team is able to prevent nutrient degradation and achieve long-term storage without refrigeration. 

Today my guest is Cael Byrd, the founder and owner of Cael Bar, a company specializing in energy bars and pet treats. Cael's vision for his company came from his desire to provide his family with healthy, energizing snacks. So he started by building a full-scale commercial kitchen out of a garage space in western Washington. As his company began to grow, Cael realized the importance of having water activity measurements to ensure the safety and quality of his products. Let's hear what Cael has to say on Water in Food.

Today my guest is Jeremy Basha, the Chief Revenue Officer at Sonoran Roots, a recreational cannabis company known for its large-scale cultivation, extraction, and dispensary operations throughout Arizona. Like many cannabis producers, this company has recently started using water activity measurements to implement a more regimented, structured, and formulaic approach to make key decisions like when to take product out of cure rooms, what order to trim different batches, how to store product, and how to combat and mitigate microbial issues. Let's listen to Jeremy explain his team's success with using water activity measurements in this special cannabis addition of Water in Food.

Melissa Coppelhttps://melissacoppel.com

Today my guest is Gregg Schieffer from Kemin Industries, a company that supplies specialty ingredients for human and animal health and nutrition, pet food, aquaculture, nutraceuticals, food technologies, crop technologies, and textile industries.  Since its start in 1961, Kemin's dedication and discipline in scientific research have remained constant. This company is the science inside countless products that you probably interact with every day. Today, Gregg is here to discuss his role as an associate scientist and why water is essential to some of the things he works on.  Lets hear what Gregg has to say on Water in Food.

Our guest is Shaunti Luce of Clif Bar.

My guest is Dr. Anne Maltais, a senior scientist and researcher at the Institute of Packaging Technology and Food Engineering, located in Montreal, Canada. The Institute develops innovative and eco-responsible packaging solutions. Let's hear what Anne has to say on Water In Food.

On this episode of Water In Food, we're joined by Nadia Hallaj of Mori. Based in Boston, Massachusetts, Mori is known as being an anti-waste company, specializing in keeping food fresher for longer by using nature-inspired protection. Let's learn about how Mori is able to better understand the effectiveness of their protective layers using water activity measurements and moisture sorption isotherms in this episode of Water in Food.

Today my guest is Dr. Vivian Allen who is a senior research scientist in product development at Hostess Brands. From new product conception to commercialization, Dr. Allen works in a fast-paced environment and is always looking for new solutions and technologies to improve her team's R&D processes. One recent addition to her laboratory is the ability to create dynamic dewpoint isotherms, and in this episode we will be learning about how she is using this data to save time and make predictions about new products. We will also be discussing how METER Group has partnered with Hostess in all aspects of their production, from MASTERING their products in R&D, MEASURING their products for quality control, and MANAGING products during production to make perfect products every time.

Beatrice Zatorska joins the podcast to discuss an emerging platform for food science professionals and researchers. As co-founder and CEO, Beatrice launched The Science Says as a site to find and exchange reliable, evidence-based information about food. Though scientists make up the bulk of content creators, anyone can participate. Let's hear what Beatrice has to say on Water In Food ...

Today we're joined by Prince Nanda of Trouw Nutrition, a global leader in innovative feed specialties, premixes, and nutritional services for the animal nutrition industry. The division provides species-specific nutritional solutions consisting of feed concepts, products, and nutritional know-how. Prince is a global program manager and he's here today to discuss why water is important in the animal feed industry. Let's hear what Prince has to say on Water In Food.

The state of Arkansas is a major hub for rice production in the United States. As such, it's the ideal region for agricultural research on the venerable crop. Leading that research is the University of Arkansas Division of Agriculture's Dr. Griffiths G. Atungulu and his graduate assistant Abass Oduola. Listen to how Dr. Atungulu and Abass use water activity and moisture sorption isotherms to advance their region's rice industry.

Today I'm joined by Kent Keller of Keller Technologies, Inc. A lactose specialist, Kent has educated people and companies about lactose for over 40 years. He's worked for Dow Chemical and Cargill to name a few, volunteered for the Peace Corps along with his wife, but eventually went into business for himself. He is highly regarded and often referred to as "Mr. Lactose." Let's hear what Kent has to say on Water In Food.

Today we're joined by Zack Farrar and Quinn Keily-Finlay of Outcast Foods based in Nova Scotia, Canada. Outcast uses plant-based technology that turns rejected produce from farmers, grocers, and food processors into nutritional supplements and powders. They do this by upcycling at-risk produce that would otherwise go to waste. A critical step towards Outcast's success has been understanding the water in their products, setting the right moisture targets, and reducing variation throughout production. Let's hear what Zack and Quinn have to say on Water in Food https://outcastfoods.com/

Most of the time on Water In Food, I like to get to know our customers better and highlight their success. Though their products vary in many aspects, underscoring their success is a firm grasp on food science and knowing what hardware fits best for their application. John Russell, application specialist, joins us again for an overview of AQUALAB water activity devices.

https://www.edesianutrition.org/Zachary (00:00):I'm Zachary Cartwight. This is Water In Food.Maria (00:02):We are able to be a part of bringing children back from the brink of starvation, back to healthy growth and development and a chance at a future and a chance at a life.Rami (00:13):Our products were made to treat and prevent malnutrition especially young children ages six months to five years.Maria (00:20):We have a two year shelf life on all of the products.Zachary (00:23):Thank you guys for joining today. I'm really happy to have you here. Why don't you both say hello?Rami (00:28):Hi. Hi Zachary. How you doing?Zachary (00:30):I'm well, and yourself?Rami (00:32):I'm doing well. Thank you. My name is Rami Kawsara and I have been with Edesia for six years. It will be six years in August and I'm the quality and regulatory manager. At Edesia I do quality and we make sure that the product from start to finish is good and I'm ready to go before it leaves our organization.Zachary (00:57):And Rami I understand that you were just promoted; is that correct? Did you just have a title change?Rami (01:03):That's correct. I was the quality control supervisor and now I'm the quality and regulatory manager at Edesia.Zachary (01:09):Well, congratulations.Rami (01:11):Thank you very much.Zachary (01:12):You are welcome. And Maria, what about you? How long have you been there and what's your role?Maria (01:17):Sure. My name is Maria Kasparian and I'm the executive director at Edesia. I've been with the Edesia since we got started in February 2009. And so that's over 12 years now. I was the first employee working with the founder, Navyn Salem, and we started the two of us in her home with ideas and visions and grant writing and partnership, thoughts. And now today, 12 years later, I've played a lot of different roles along the way and feel lucky to still be here and be the executive director of this wonderful organization.Zachary (01:59):And Maria I was wondering if you could talk a little bit more about the story behind how Edesia was started?Maria (02:05):Sure. So our founder, Navyn, her father's family hails from Tanzania. They were there for several generations and so she always had a personal connection to the continent of Africa and a certain sensitivity to particular needs and poverty alleviation and wanting to do something, give something back to her father's Homeland. She also had a fascination and interest in business and the ability of a business to do good and this concept of social enterprise. So this idea that a business, whether for-profit or nonprofit, can be used to create a social good, create a product that's needed while at the same time creating meaningful jobs and opportunities for individuals. So, honestly, that was the first core concept.Maria (02:54):And then in doing research, in visiting Tanzania, meeting with nonprofits doing work there, came to realize that nutrition was a gap area that really wasn't being focused on enough in the development space. So kind of marrying that idea of nutritional needs and too many children, way too many children's still suffering from acute malnutrition and starvation that being the need and then this passion for social enterprise, Edesia was born of that. The idea of forming a nonprofit that could manufacture specialized foods to treat and prevent malnutrition in places like Tanzania and beyond.Zachary (03:34):So once the passion was there, what was the next step? Who did you reach out to? Or how did you go about starting the company?Maria (03:43):Sure. Well, we had a lot to learn as the two of us back in February 2009. And one of the first organizations we reached out to was Nutriset, which is the French company that originally invented this range of products along with some other partners in the late 1990s. So they are one of the four leading experts, of course, in ready to use therapeutic foods as they are known. The brand name that's best well known is called Plumpy'Nut. They developed those and then piloted them with various organizations in the field over the early 2000s. By the mid-2000s, it was accepted widely by the powers that be in nutrition. So the World Health Organization, the Standing Committee on Nutrition, UNICEF, the World Food Program, that these types of products were the best case standard of care for children with severe acute malnutrition to rehabilitate them and cure them.Maria (04:43):So at that point, Nutriset started licensing out their technology to other suppliers, primarily in developing countries where these products are used. So they first had a partner in Niger, Niamey. They then had a partner in Ethiopia, so Hilina Foods and STA, and then from there, there's about a dozen. So there are partners in Burkina Faso, Guinea, Nigeria, Sudan, Madagascar, India, Haiti, and a partner in the United States, which is Edesia. So we reached out to them to form that kind of licensee relationship and also to access technology transfer and training from them to understand how to best make these products. Because though they are not complex in terms of the number of ingredients necessarily, there is a lot of technology that goes into making sure that these products are shelf-stable, that they are nutritionally perfect for these very specific important needs, and that they're microbiologically safe for this vulnerable population that they're serving.Zachary (05:54):And Rami I was wondering if you could talk a little bit more about the products themselves and really who the target consumers are today.Rami (06:02):Sure. So as Maria mentioned our products were made to treat and prevent malnutrition, especially young children ages six months to five years, those who are most at risk of malnutrition and most in need of treatments. Additionally, we have products that are specialized, ready to eat food for vulnerable populations, such as pregnant and lactating moms, people living with HIV. So our partners such as UNICEF, WFP, and USAID, partner with them to distribute basically the products that we make.Zachary (06:41):And Maria you mentioned that these products are only composed of just a few ingredients. Can you talk a little bit more about those ingredients and what really makes your products unique? How are you hitting that long shelf life that you mentioned before?Maria (06:55):So the core ingredients of our range of products are peanuts, soy, vegetable oils, milk, both milk powder and whey, vitamins, and minerals. Those are the main ingredients. So in different balances, of course, according to different formulations. One of the things that makes the product unique is in the name itself, ready to eat therapeutic or ready to eat supplementary foods. They're ready to eat because they're shelf-stable. They don't require any reconstitution with water. They don't require any cooking. That does mean that the packaging and preparation is important for the shelf life. So they're packaged in a metalized polyester that has very low oxygen transfer and is opaque. They are also nitrogen flushed and we also have very specific standards around things like water activity, which I know we're going to talk more about today.Zachary (07:53):Yeah. We're headed that direction, but I want to understand by using the nitrogen flushing and by using the correct packaging and the correct water activity, what type of shelf life are you seeing for these products? How long does that last?Maria (08:06):Yeah, so we have a two year shelf life on all of the products and that's under pretty hot humid conditions. So two years is 30 degrees Celsius or below, which is about 86 degrees Fahrenheit. We also do shelf stability studies on all the products at both 30 and 40 degrees Celsius to see how they do. But two years is basically what we're looking at for shelf life.Zachary (08:32):And you mentioned... Go ahead.Maria (08:34):No, I was just going to say, they've got a long journey to make. I mean, Rami mentioned our partners. We are the beginning of the journey. We're always working with partners like UNICEF, the World Food Program, USAID. And then there nonprofit and government health system partners. So the journey only begins here in Rhode Island. It continues far across the world and the shelf life is really critical because the journey itself may take several months and then it's often going to have to make a journey to a remote clinic somewhere where they also need to know that that supply can last for a long period of time.Zachary (09:14):And you mentioned the term ready to use therapeutic products is this the same as a meal replacement product or a supplement or is this something completely different?Maria (09:25):So it's a little bit different. It's not really considered as a meal replacement. They're considered as therapeutic and supplementary foods, depending on which food you're talking about. If you're talking about Plumpy'Nut, which is a ready to use therapeutic food, it's more like a medical food in some countries it's considered as essential medicine in some countries it's considered as a food. We kind of are the line between food and pharma. So during a treatment period, so a child that has severe acute malnutrition, their body does need very intensive rehabilitation before they can eat other foods again. So during a treatment, they will be eating about three of these 92 gram packets per day, for an average of about seven weeks. Obviously, this varies a little bit by context and the health situation of the child. But during that time, this is meeting all of their caloric and nutritional needs in addition to water and or breast milk, depending on what is available.Maria (10:29):Whereas the rest of our products, which are either supplementary or complementary, they're looked at as supplements or compliments to whatever is already available in the diet. So something like a Plumpy'Doz or a Nutributter, maybe one per day, in addition to the staple foods that are available. So with a porridge or with rice or context-specific depending what's available in the community and they are adding some nutrition density, they're adding some protein, fat calories that are probably lacking in the diet.Zachary (11:04):And Rami, I want to ask you a question about the packaging, because I understand that the packaging relates to the extent of malnutrition and that helps to make sure that the right product is being consumed. Can you talk a little bit about the packaging and how you came up with the color of the packaging for each of your products.Rami (11:22):Sure. So our packaging basically matches the MUAC tape and it's basically a tape that is used to measure the extent of malnutrition. So they usually use it to measure the mid upper arm circumference. So basically when you have that, it will show you if it needs Plummpy'Doz or like if it needs Plumpy'Nut or RUSF, which is type of some of our products. So if it's in the red area, it will be a severe malnutrition. If it's the orange zone, it will be moderate malnutrition. And then in the green area for like the babies that need like some supplements with the breastfeeding from their mom.Zachary (12:06):Yeah. I really like how straightforward you've made that and how you've related it to the tape and to the extent of malnutrition. That makes a lot of sense.Maria (12:14):Just so to clarify, it's a global standard now, so it's not only Edesia, it's something that actually took a good amount of time for the global community to harmonize on. But you're absolutely right. It helps for sure with diagnosis and clarity in the field to know that red is severe acute malnutrition and yellow and orange is moderate acute malnutrition, and then green is the healthy range, but some kind of supplement or compliment might be needed if there's a food insecurity challenge.Zachary (12:43):Yeah. Thank you for clarifying that. When did that happen? When did everyone agree that yes, these were the colors and this is the way that we're going to move forward?Maria (12:51):Good question. It's been more than five years now. I want to say it's like seven, eight years ago. And it was a big effort, not just with the colors, but also to harmonize the packaging so that everyone's package has, no matter what producer all over the world, there's about 25 to 30 global producers and that anyone who's making RUTF has to have a FIC red band across the package and as an example, but that is harmonized and it happened probably around seven years ago now.Zachary (13:24):And I want to dive back into kind of the food science of these products and now gets a water activity that we mentioned earlier. And Rami, I was wondering if you could tell us when water activity became an essential measurement for these products.Rami (13:38):So before 2015, the regulations were set to be concerned with the upper limit for water activity. And initially, there was no lower limit and the upper limit had to be lower than 0.6 to control microbial growth. In 2015, the food technologist at USAID introduced a lower limit as well, because they started to get concerned about the increased levels of oxidations when going below the 0.2. So we understand that water activity is one of the most used criteria for quality as you're aware and food safety. And there is a direct connection between water activity and shelf stability and obviously retaining vitamins and minerals.Zachary (14:24):Yeah, I think that lipid oxidation is kind of a tricky thing because as you get really low in water activity, you can actually have an increased lipid oxidation rate. And I'm not sure that everyone always realizes that. So would you say that your range of water activity is maybe 0.2 to 0.5 or-Rami (14:42):0.2 to 0.5. We always make sure it does not exceed the 0.6 because we don't want any microbial growth. And obviously, we don't want also to go below the 0.2 and we have seen some of that in the winter when there is seasonal fluctuation that we see the water activity goes below the 0.2.Zachary (15:05):And what types of instruments have you used to measure what activity. Are you using a handheld device, a benchtop device? What does that process look like?Rami (15:14):We used to use the handheld device and we moved away from that. And we now have the 4TE benchtop device and it's provided by METER Group. Device: https://www.metergroup.com/meter_products/aqualab-4te-water-activity-meter/Zachary (15:26):And why make that upgrade? Why go from handheld to benchtop?Rami (15:30):So when originally that when we were doing the handheld device, we received a customer complaint and we had some issues c the water activity and to improve the accuracy of the results we moved away and we started using the benchtop one, which is a 0.003 accuracy. And the turn around time also on it is much quicker than the other one.Zachary (16:00):And with that quicker turnaround time, when are you looking at water activity? Is this something that you look at in process or for finished products or during shelf life testing? When are you using that instrument?Rami (16:12):So we do the analysis once per shift and three times every day to ensure that obviously, we have control over the products and water activity.Zachary (16:21):And I want to turn back to you, Maria now that we kind of have a better understanding of your products and who they're going to, I'm wondering if you're doing anything for the domestic market here in the US.Maria (16:33):Yeah. Great question. That is something newer for us. Since day one, people have always asked us, well, that's great that you're helping malnourished people and kids abroad, but we have problems here too in the US what are you doing here? And for many years, we said we're not, we're really focused internationally where there are more acute needs. But that said, there are certain needs in the US and over the last few years, we came to realize that we were well positioned to also help meet some of those needs. Namely in a few areas so one of the needs is in regards to peanut allergies in the United States and we have a new product it's called MeWe Baby. And it's a healthy snack that is a good peanut introduction for young children. So we realized kind of the research and pediatric advice around introduction of allergens was really turned on its head a few years back.Maria (17:34):So the advice of avoiding allergens for long periods of time, or until a child was older, really switched. And now the advice is that allergens like peanuts should be introduced earlier at four to six months and then at regular intervals to actually help decrease significantly the incidents of peanut allergy. So in light of that, we realized, well, one thing we're really experts at is making peanut based products for young kids. That's what we do. And there weren't a lot of products like that available in the domestic market. Now, there are a few, one of which is ours. So we developed a product like that for kids. And they're different flavor and it's a flavored peanut butter that's also a consistency. That's easy to swallow safely for a young child. And so that's for one. Additionally, to that, there are different nutritional needs in the US whether that's you want a healthy fortified snack on the go that has protein and also fortified with vitamins and minerals and, or you need nutritional support because you're recovering from a health condition or you're not growing fast enough as a child.Maria (18:49):So things like boost or ensure those kinds of drinks are available in the United States, for sure. But there aren't a lot of other options if you're looking for alternatives. So we created an option, both for kids and for adults that are similar nutritionally in terms of filling that kind of need, but in a completely different format. So they're peanut spreads that are flavored. You've got snickerdoodle or chocolate brownie or fun, different fun flavors and also lower sugar than many of those drinks. But another alternative for people that are looking for that kind of supplement. So we have started selling these products on the market here in the US and we also have donated them through food banks and other channels carrying through our mission really is to treat and prevent malnutrition for vulnerable populations. So that fit for purpose type of nutrition work still carries through to what we do domestically.Zachary (20:03):So just to clarify, the MeWe product is for a kid nutrition, but also adults. And then you're also working for an early peanut introduction in babies; is that correct?Maria (20:13):Yeah, that is correct. And then the other aspect of it is that we want to use the commercial products in the US to also help spread awareness and raise funds for the work that we do internationally, because the needs are large. And especially with the COVID-19 pandemic, the needs did not decrease. They increased significantly. So we want to look at different things we can do to raise awareness and raise funds for those who are most vulnerable and who can really be helped by nutritional supplements. So that's the other aspect of why the United States.Zachary (20:51):And how has Edesia been able to deal with the impacts of COVID? How has this impacted your company, especially with things like logistics and supply chain?Maria (21:02):It hasn't been an easy year for anyone. And we are part of that. It has not been an easy year, but I'm proud to say we have been able to endure and overcome most of that. We were able to stay up and running throughout the entire pandemic. We consider ourselves and we are considered as an essential business as someone who is manufacturing foods and foods that are often life-saving foods. So we did stay open, but we had to modify a lot of things. We shortened our shifts. We segregated shifts. We put in cleaning and extra cleaning and sanitation shifts in between to help prevent spread or potential spread at Edesia. In terms of supply chain we increased all of our safety stocks of raw materials, because for risks, there were a lot more risks of interrupted supply.Maria (21:58):We didn't know if any of our suppliers would be shut down. So we had to increase all of those safety stocks. You mentioned logistics and trucking that as well was higher risk. Again, we had to add more time because we didn't know when there would be delays. And there were some times delays. Costs also went up. So those are things we had to account for and work with. But all in all, we got our way through 2020 and into 2021 and we are feeling more hopeful and more resilient. And that we have been able to normalize kind of in a new normal, which is still cautious and it's still extra careful, but we've adapted our systems so that we can still function and we can still do the work that we do and make sure that supplies are not interrupted where they're needed all over the world.Zachary (22:58):And Rami what were some of the impacts that you've seen on your side from your perspective and in quality, how has COVID impacted your position and looking at these products and getting them out the door?Rami (23:12):As Maria mentioned, from quality standpoint, we had to increase our sanitation activities, segregate the shifts and make sure that people maintain social distancing. It was hard because a lot of the supply chain got disturbed. So sometimes we had some delays with testing the product because every batch we make we need to ensure that we send some samples to the lab to be tested to clear the batch and then can be sent. So we had a lot of delays in terms of testing, but we were able to maintain our supplies. It was challenging, but we were able to do it.Zachary (23:58):Well. I'm glad that you guys have been able to kind of push forward and make the shifts that you need to. I think the work that you do is really impactful and I'm really happy to have you guys here today. My last question for each of you I'll start with you, Rami, is why do you love coming to work every day? What makes you proud to be a part of Edesia?Rami (24:20):That's actually a great question. First diversity. There are 27 spoken languages at Edesia, which is an amazing thing. Here at Edesia you feel a sense of belonging. The management team also ensures to recruit from the refugee population. So we also ship the products that we make all over the world. So to countries where many of the staff members are from, I have seen our products back when I was in Syria and I have seen the change that they make. My job provides me with a sense of purpose as it is not just a job for me it is more like a mission that has a meaningful purpose.Zachary (25:06):And Maria, same question. Why do you love coming to work with this company every day and what makes you part or proud to be a part of your team?Maria (25:17):So many things, but above all the ability to be able to work with a team of people who are passionate and mission-driven, as Rami was saying. People that have a common mission and something that's bigger than ourselves. We know we have pictures all over Edesia of children from all over the world and from the US and to see those faces and to know that we are able to be a part of bringing children back from the brink of starvation, back to healthy growth and development and a chance at a future and a chance at a life that just puts everything else in the world back in perspective and makes you realize that all those tests are worth it. All those challenges are worth it, everything that just takes headaches are worth it. Everything's worth it because you are with a team helping to create life opportunities for kids that wouldn't have them otherwise.Maria (26:16):So to me, that's just the best thing in the world. And post COVID I would invite listeners, anyone, who's interested to come to our facility. We are an open facility. We invite people to come in, learn more about what we do. We do educational tours, Rami will show you the lab. And we like to educate because it starts with like, we really believe it's a small world and everything matters. And every single person educate yourself, spread awareness, donate when you can, volunteer when you can, reach out to Congress when you can, like anything really does make a difference. And I think that's what seeing all the kids' faces does for me. And knowing that these foods are life-changing and life-saving and that we can all be a part of it no matter where we are, the world, as I said, is small and very interconnected. And that's an amazing thing.Zachary (27:19):Well, I'll definitely be signing up for a tour someday. So I hope to be there-Maria (27:23):Please do.Zachary (27:24):... see the lab Rami and-Rami (27:26):For sure.Zachary (27:26):... both of you. So I just want to say, thank you guys so much. I love learning about new products and in companies like yours and it makes me proud to know that a small part of your process is water activity and helping to ensure the safety and quality of these products. So Rami and Maria, thank you again for being on this episode.Rami (27:47):Thank you very much for inviting us too.Zachary (27:50):All right see you guys.Maria (27:52):See you.Rami (27:52):Bye, bye.Zachary (27:53):I'm Zachary Cartwright. This is Water In Food. Find this podcast on Apple iTunes, Spotify or wherever you listen to podcasts.

https://www.peacefulfruits.com/https://www.peacecorps.gov/

https://www.thorne.comhttps://effusio.comZachary Cartwright (00:00):I'm Zachary Cartwright. This is Water in Food.Aaron Denzler (00:03):As you develop the favorites or the winners, you can take those, and you can run them on the VSA and you can get a head start or an early look into what your shelf life is going to be. 45 hours running on a VSA, right up front it's faster.Zachary Cartwright (00:18):Water has been called the luck of the planet by Daniel Boorstin, and its impact and significance are evident everywhere in the foods that we eat. Every year, billions of dollars are spent by food manufacturers to move water in and out of food products. As a food scientist, I am on a mission to understand how this can be done better.Zachary Cartwright (00:36):Welcome to another episode of Water in Food. Today, I'm joined by Aaron Denzler at Thorne Research. Hey Aaron, how's it going? Thanks for joining us.Aaron Denzler (00:45):It's going great today. Thanks for having me.Zachary Cartwright (00:47):Yeah, of course. I'm excited to talk to you, and discuss water and your products, and how you've been able to start applying isotherms to your research. But to start off with, why don't you tell us a little bit about your role at Thorne and how long you've been there?Aaron Denzler (01:03):My current role at Thorne is research scientist two, specifically for the Effusio product. And I'm working with Thorne in my fifth year currently.Zachary Cartwright (01:14):And what brought you to Thorne? What is your background, and how did you end up there?Aaron Denzler (01:19):My background is in science all the way through. Graduated from Montana State University in Billings with a Bachelor of Science and Biology. And during my time there, it all kicked off with an internship program where I got into R&D and product development right out of the gate, before I graduated. And it's all been flowing in this direction ever since then. What the key thing that brought me to Thorne was my interest in the way that they operate, and the products that they provide. It fit well into my goals as an individual and as a professional.Zachary Cartwright (01:57):And how did you find Thorne? Did you find them online, or through LinkedIn, or what ultimately brought you there?Aaron Denzler (02:06):It's a fun story. The short version is, it was sheer luck, and it was a job fair sign that they had out in front of their manufacturing facility, in Sandpoint, Idaho, as I was touring through the area. I was living in Spokane at the time and I just stopped in and asked them when it was. And lo and behold, it was a few days later. I attended, and the rest is history.Zachary Cartwright (02:35):I hadn't realized that you lived so close to the METER headquarters, so I'm glad that you're familiar with this area. And what makes you excited to go to work now? What gets you out of bed every day, and what do you look forward to doing at work?Aaron Denzler (02:50):I'm proud to be a part of Thorne and what they're doing. So that makes that first step, all that easier every day. And then my deep-seated interest in science and data, and making decisions based on data, is another key to success for me. So being able to show up here on campus and be happy to be here, and then be able to work doing something that I can see as the best fit for me. The two combos. It's nice.Zachary Cartwright (03:23):And what types of products are you working on now? What products does Thorne specialize in and what makes these products different from your competitors?Aaron Denzler (03:33):Sure. Thorne manufacturers, in terms of supplements, we're very deep-seated in health technology. We're a science-driven wellness company. That's who we are. We manufacture encapsulated products, ready to mix powders. And, importantly, very, very close to my heart would be our Effusio product line, which are dissolvable beverage disks. What really separates us from our competitors is our quality and purity. We've made decisions along the road to eliminate and reduce the use of unneeded excipients and fillers. And we are genuinely interested in the outcome and wellbeing of our customers.Zachary Cartwright (04:15):And as you work through that R&D process and eliminate excipients, and really focus on your products, how is water important to that process? And how are you measuring water?Aaron Denzler (04:26):Water is a very important factor for us. As you eliminate certain excipients and fillers, the job becomes more difficult throughout the manufacturing process. It can become more difficult with shelf life. It complicates things, and that's a task that we're willing to take on. But to do that, we need to have data, we need to know, what is water doing to our product? How was it lasting inside of our packaging components? What kind of steps do we need to take during the manufacturing process to succeed? It's a big deal.Zachary Cartwright (05:04):And as you start to collect that data and look at water, how are moisture sorption isotherms a part of that process? And when did you start using isotherms in your R&D team?Aaron Denzler (05:16):Sure. Our experience with the METER group was kicked off by a recommendation from a coworker that knew of METER. And that's how that ball got rolling, is we determined that this product, or the VSA specifically, was going to be able to give us the ability to analyze how our samples would react in a controlled environment with a set temperature, when you introduce water vapor. What happens there? How does it absorb the water? What happens when it absorbs water? And that allows us to determine critical water activities. It helps us determine shelf life. We can predict shelf life as long as we complete the calculations. It can give me a glass transition point, so I can look and identify a trouble spot within our product. And I can make data-driven decisions based on the output that we're getting.Zachary Cartwright (06:13):So it sounds like you're using isotherms to do a lot more than maybe just a single water activity measurement, or a single moisture content measurement. It's giving you that entire picture. And from my understanding, you recently used isotherms to prove that a packaging material wasn't necessarily living up to its specs. And I was wondering if you could talk about that experience a little bit more?Aaron Denzler (06:39):Certainly. So this is a new product. This is from our Effusio line. This is the first time we've worked with this, and we haven't found anyone else out there who is working with it. So it was from the ground up. So every step forward there were challenges, and the challenge that you brought up was the packaging. At first, we didn't know it was the packaging. All we knew is that this product was sticking, or adhering itself, to the interior of our pouch material, which was completely unexpected. That's not supposed to happen. We went through, of course, all the checklists. We looked at formulation, we looked at process. We started drilling down and nothing was adding up. And by that I mean, the data wasn't telling us that we had a problem with any of those checkpoints.Aaron Denzler (07:31):So then I started measuring the water content of these disks that were adhering to the interior of the pouch. And I observed that we were increasing in our percent moisture in these products as the increase in sticking occurred. So that didn't make sense, because you have a spec on your packaging and boy, that's something that you got be able to hang your hat on, or lean up against, in troubled times. And after running our product on the VSA and comparing it to observation, I was able to predict that with that particular packaging component and our particular product being tested, our shelf life should be at least 10 times longer than what we were observing with the shelf life in that package.Aaron Denzler (08:24):That spurred us to send that pouch material out for vapor barrier testing. And lo and behold, it came back and it said exactly what the shelf life predictor said, which was the spec was not accurate and we had far too much vapor transfer happening. Our product was acting like a desiccant in its patching component. So the VSA knocked it out of the park. The VSA told us exactly what happened.Zachary Cartwright (08:54):So just to clarify, the packaging company was telling you that that packaging material had a specific water vapor transmission rate. And when you use that in the packaging calculations, in the moisture analysis toolkit software, it was telling you that you should hit a shelf life. But what you were seeing in actuality was that you were having that stickiness to the inside of your packaging, and it wasn't even close. And so when you went and had another third-party test that packaging material, it was different from what that packaging company had told you. And you wouldn't have understood that if you didn't do the isotherm analysis on that Vapor Sorption Analyzer, is that correct?Aaron Denzler (09:40):That's correct. It would have been... Had we had reached out to that third-party to test the barrier, it wouldn't have been driven by the data that the VSA gave us. It would've been us just looking into it, simply looking into it. And that's not something normal to just check in on a packaging specification. That's why we rely on specifications. But the data was so strong from the VSA, it made the decision to test the packaging material a no-brainer. It was instant.Zachary Cartwright (10:15):Yeah. I'd be curious to know how often this happens. How many times a packaging company might not quite live up to what it's actually saying. And at least with the isotherm, this is a way to test that. And then also a way to pinpoint the packaging water vapor transmission rate that you actually need. What other types of challenges have you been using isotherms for from the R&D side of things?Aaron Denzler (10:42):Well, what I've been using it for recently is to add valuable data to our shelf life predictions. The more data points that you have, the better your decisions are. So I've been running a lot of our encapsulated products and our ready to mix powders through there, adding that data set to our current data for shelf life calculations, which are extremely important to as we grow and have our products residing in different regions and for potentially longer durations or shorter durations. It's all about the environment and how it can impact the product in which it resides.Zachary Cartwright (11:26):Yeah, so let's go back just a little bit. I want to talk about those glass transition points and why they're important to your team. You're using the isotherm to pinpoint where the glass transition point is, but then once you have that information, what are you doing with it?Aaron Denzler (11:43):Sure. One example is that seeing a glass transition point and correlating that to analytical data, as far as the activity and label claim that we absolutely stand by, you can see a decline in activities of raw materials, ingredients, when that glass transition happens. So we can stress a product utilizing the glass transition model, and take analytical data, and we can see a shift or a change. So we know what to avoid and we know that we can believe in that glass transition point, and how it can help us say, throughout its shelf life. This is a problem area that we need to avoid otherwise our product isn't what we set out to make it be.Zachary Cartwright (12:32):How well is that a glass transition point that you're determining with the isotherm, how well does that line up with what you're seeing in the real world?Aaron Denzler (12:42):So I work so very closely with our dissolvable beverage discs. I mean, that is the department in which I reside. I see these every day, so much observation on so much data stacked up. And when I take a glass transition and I model it, and I look at the product I'm working with, I can see that glass transition in action. I can physically stress that product. And when I reach that correlating point with the glass transition, I can see a negative change in my product. And so that allows us to set a boundary and say, this is the no-go line. If we exceed this amount, this water activity, or this moisture content, we're in trouble. So we will do what we need to do to never reach that boundary.Zachary Cartwright (13:31):And what is the business value of being able to have this information early in the R&D process, before mass producing one of your products?Aaron Denzler (13:42):Well, in the world of iterating through formulas and developing what we would call up a prospective master formula, there's a whole stack of those iterations. And as you develop the favorites or the winners, you can take those, and you can run them on the VSA. And you can get a head start or an early look into what your shelf life is going to be like. And that's a money saver right there. I mean, you cannot do that without implementing accelerated conditions in an environmental chamber, and then coupling that with analytical data. That's common practice all over the world for that. This is another set of valuable data that can add to that, to make those decisions viable. Or just stacking data to make it an even more educated decision.Zachary Cartwright (14:36):Yeah, it sounds like by having the isotherm data, you have that competitive edge, because it may allow you to maybe be the first to market with new products, or reduce your R&D costs. I think that those isotherms also work somewhat as an insurance plan, because you're able to avoid any problems before they even happen. Is there anything else that you might add to that list?Aaron Denzler (15:00):To go back to the early discovery of issues, I did leave something out. And 45 hours running on a VSA is far shorter than six weeks in an accelerated environmental chamber. So we can get an early peak if something is just plain not going to work. There's no sense in having that elongated time. So right up front it's faster.Zachary Cartwright (15:25):And like you said, any traditional shelf life test, or even an accelerated test, is going to take much longer than anyone really wants to wait. And so, even though this test is still maybe a two day test, it's still the fastest way to get these types of insights. Even a traditional laboratory isotherm or an isotherm using a DVS, a dynamic vapor sorption method, those can also take a long time. And you're using that DDI, the dynamic dewpoint isotherm, that's a patented method that was produced by METER group. Maybe you can talk a little bit about that specific method, and how it's been helpful to you. And have you had the chance to look at these other types of methods and apply them to your products as well?Aaron Denzler (16:15):Right now, I am thoroughly enamored with the DDI method. That's what I'm using for everything currently. What it does for me is it gives me the isotherm model that I can easily recognize, now that I've had practice. It graphs out a curve that I can read now. And I use that model to plug it into the numerous modules that the software comes with. An example, we touched on the glass transition point. I can use that. I can use it to predict my shelf life. I can use it to predict what kind of packaging I may need to use to keep a product stable if I've set a boundary. It's been great learning about it. And the challenges that I faced thus far, I've been able to hop on calls with yourself, for example, and I've improved, or I've gained, the knowledge on interpreting the data, which has been vital. Once you learn how to read these things, you can really take off pretty quickly. It's been a pleasurable experience so far.Zachary Cartwright (17:29):Yeah. It's been fun to watch you transition from an isotherm novice to really an isotherm application specialist like myself. And what would you say has been the most rewarding part of that experience?Aaron Denzler (17:44):Oh, man. Data, data, data. I mean, it is so incredibly stressful in the R&D world, and it's really just not a thing that should happen, is having to make decisions without some data to help to drive that. Observations, they're part of science, but you've got to put that with data or else you're going to end up spinning your wheels. You might end up down a dead end. This data that the VSA has given us has been very valuable in improvement, which is something that we do here every day, is we want to improve and continue to thrive.Zachary Cartwright (18:27):And Aaron, one of the pushbacks that I see from other R&D teams when they're thinking about isotherms, sometimes I think they're a little frightened at having to learn this new method and sit down. And even though they're getting all of these new insights into their products, it does take some time to learn how to create an isotherm, and how to analyze it, and how to do the calculations that you've talked about today. What are some of the challenges that you had with isotherms and how have you been able to overcome these challenges?Aaron Denzler (19:01):The support from METER group has been there to help me through these challenges. One specifically was interpreting some of the more difficult, or some of the irregular isotherm models. And I recently had to put in a request with you yourself. I just couldn't get data that I wanted, but it's math. And so I know that it was something that I was doing, or I wasn't providing the right values to the equation. And we went ahead and we modeled the isotherm in a different way, and we set our beginning and critical water activities where they needed to be to get a more accurate output on our shelf-life calculation. And then it worked, so now it's another tool that I have that I can use solo, or just on my own, let's say. You can take the training wheels off and I don't have to check in with you on it anymore, because I know what I'm looking at and I know how to manipulate the data.Zachary Cartwright (20:10):Sure, and one thing I do want to mention here is that METER group really views this as a partnership. Any time that we sell a Vapor Sorption Analyzer and help a team start to understand isotherms, we do have to teach you how to walk before you run. But it's a rewarding experience for, I think, both sides or both companies. And so that is something that I personally enjoy doing, working with people like you and showing them, if the math isn't working or if the model doesn't make sense, then we sit down and we really look at what's going on so that in the future, you're able to do this yourself.Zachary Cartwright (20:52):From here, I just want to talk about what's new with Thorne. Are there any product launches that you want our listeners to be aware of, and where can listeners find your product?Aaron Denzler (21:01):Well, the easiest answer is, is our Effusio product line. It's in my job title, I'm very proud of this product line. I believe in it. It's a dissolvable beverage disk and we do have two currently available through Thorne.com. You can learn more at Effusio.com and the best place to order any Thorne products is Thorne.com.Zachary Cartwright (21:26):And I want to finish with this. The last time that we spoke, you were getting ready to go fishing, and I'm just curious if you had any luck when you went out.Aaron Denzler (21:34):Oh, it was a great day. Yes, it was. We had some sunshine and we had a good day on the water. It was the nearshore or inshore red drum fishing. I recommend it to anyone and everyone who enjoys fishing.Zachary Cartwright (21:50):Did you do any fishing when you were in this area close to Spokane?Aaron Denzler (21:56):Oh, absolutely. Yep. The St. Joe river is probably one of my favorite all-time fishing locations on the planet.Zachary Cartwright (22:02):Aaron, I just want to say thank you for your time today. I've really enjoyed talking to you about isotherms and learning how you're using this. And again, it's been great to watch you go from isotherm novice to really applying these almost every day that you go to work. So thanks again for being on this episode.Aaron Denzler (22:21):Thank you very much. And thank you for all your help in all of the problems you've helped me solve to this point.Zachary Cartwright (22:26):I'm Zachary Cartwright. This is Water in Food. Find this podcast on Apple iTunes, Spotify, or wherever you listen to podcasts.