Podcasts about montana school

Meet Denise Dowling; Professor at the J-School (University of Montana School of Journalism if you want to be more formal). After an illustrious career in broadcasting, she returned to the same school she graduated from to help the next generation find the stories worth telling. Always on the other side of the interview, it was an honor to be able to turn the table and tell her story on the podcast. Learn more about the J School: https://www.umt.edu/journalism/

Is there really a mass of Chinese immigrants forming an army within the United States? Are there legions of ineligible voters deciding elections? Are the people you disagree with politically getting influenced by Russian agents? Anymore, news consumers can choose where they get their facts from - and increasingly those facts are in dispute. A new poll by the Media Insight Project finds 53% of those asked think news organizations will report inaccuracies or misinformation about the upcoming election. We will get some clues about what Native news consumers should look out for, and what news organizations could do to restore trust in their products. GUESTS Cristina Azocar (Upper Mattaponi), professor of journalism at San Francisco State University Jason Begay (Navajo), associate professor at The University of Montana School of Journalism Angel Ellis (Muscogee [Creek] Nation), director of Mvskoke Media, treasurer for the Indigenous Journalists Association, Oklahoma Media Center board member, and co-host of the Pretendians podcast by Canadaland

A mother and daughter in Belize work together to navigate the challenges of entering the country with an expired passport, a determined diver confronts the depths of the ocean swimming against sudden swells and learns some harrowing news the next day when she returns to the water. An artist wrestles with self-doubt and the meaning of success. And a woman on a wilderness adventure faces a grizzly bear encounter, wolves and swarming bees on her ordeal to get out and help with a family emergency. In this episode of the Tell Us Something podcast, four storytellers share their true personal story on the theme “Close to the Edge”. Our stories today were recorded live in person in front of a packed house on March 26, 2024 at The George and Jane Dennison Theatre. An expired passport throws mother-daughter vacation into chaos! Listen to their dramatic encounter with immigration and how they turned a mishap into an unforgettable experience. We call her story “The Trip of a Lifetime”. Traci Sylte shares her story “The Trip of a Lifetime”

This podcast highlights the steps of 15 clinicians from the United States who are traveling to The Gambia and embarking on a transformative journey with the Institute for Community Evolution, The Gambia Collaborative Project, Sunu Reew, University of the Gambia, Penn Global Visions, and the Edward Francis Smalls Teaching Hospital to foster a new era of global health care collaboration.  In this podcast episode, Dr. Lisa Herbert interviews Dr. Carol Penn about the Gambia Collaborative Project, a healthcare initiative between African-American and Gambian medical professionals. Dr. Carol Penn is board-certified in family medicine, obesity medicine, and osteopathic manipulative medicine. She is a bestselling author, international speaker, and mindset movement meditation coach extraordinaire. She is also the director of Tracks and Electives and Assistant Professor of Family Medicine at Rocky Vista University, Montana School of Osteopathic Osteopathic Medicine. As co-founder of the Gambia Collaborative Project, she shares her career journey, motivations, and the skills she brings to the project. She discusses the Gambia's healthcare challenges, Western medicine's influence, and the potential collaboration with traditional healers. Dr. Penn emphasizes the importance of deep listening and sees the project as a way to give back and share her knowledge. The Gambia Collaborative Project is a 501 (c) 3 organization. By supporting the Institute for Community Evolution's The Gambia Collaborative Project, you become a catalyst for positive change, helping us shape a world where every community thrives through collaboration, empowerment, and compassionate care. To support the project, visit our donor box at www.gambiacollaborative.org.

Two school choice bills that would expand public education opportunities through Community Choice and Public Charter schools have been approved by the Montana legislature and likely to be signed Governor Gianforte in the near future. Henry Kriegel, Legislative Director for […]

Since the Montana constitution was crafted in 1972, there have only been 34 changes made to the state's governing document, a rate of less than one per year. However over the last three months of the 68th legislative session, Montana Republicans have introduced a record 67 constitutional amendments. This week, Flathead Beacon reporter Denali Sagner wrote about the crossroads the state constitution is facing with multiple efforts, almost all unsuccessful, to alter it. To gain additional insight, host Micah Drew reached out to political analyst and director of the University of Montana School of Journalism Lee Banville, who joins the podcast to share some of his observations from the legislative session. Later, Micah runs through the news of the week.RELATED LINKSA Constitution at a CrossroadsU.S. Census: Flathead County Adds Most Residents in MontanaBaseball Teams Face Delays, lingering Snow with Start of Inaugural SeasonGianforte Discusses Work-Based Learning at Kalispell RoundtableRead more about all of this week's stories and get the latest breaking news at flatheadbeacon.com and sign up for our new daily newsletter at flatheadbeacon.com/newsletter.The introductory music in this this episode is “Thinking Music” by Kevin MacLeod (incompetech.com), licensed under Creative Commons: By Attribution 3.0 License, The episode also features songs from Montana singer/songwriter Mike Murray's album We Are Like Warriors, "The Good Ol' Days You're In" and "Moment of Time," used with permission. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

The Montana School for the Deaf and Blind was recently selected as the state winner in a national Science, Technology, Engineering and Mathematics (STEM) competition.

Montana week is over and the Wildcats come away with a split, downing reigning champs Montana State, but falling to the hot hand of Aanen Moody and the Montana Griz. We'll talk about what we saw and what it might mean for the rest of the conference slate.Then, it's a Mailbag segment! We took your questions from social media and gave our takes. Check it out to see if we answered one of your questions.Don't forget to follow us on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, YouTube or join the Wildcat Fans FB group.

Tommy Martino is the photography manager working for the University of Montana in Missoula, Montana. Tommy Martino is an award-winning photographer and photojournalist based in Missoula, Montana. Tommy graduated in 2014 from the Montana School of Journalism. Tommy went on to intern and work as a photojournalist at papers in Michigan, Montana and Wyoming. Tommy is an award-winning photographer and photojournalist based in Missoula, Montana. We talk about finding photography, being whiling to travel for a job, working and living in cold places as well as the challenges of being the lead photographer at a University. We can see Tommy's work at his website www.tommymartinophoto.com and follow him on Instagram www.instagram.com/tommymartinophoto --- Support this podcast: https://anchor.fm/matt-brown57/support

There is no break in election campaigns anymore. Party operatives work long hours year round to find ways to bring voters to their side—or at least away from their opponents' side. Even so, as the Midterm Election nears, information is moving at light speed and so much of it is exaggerated, misleading, and even false. Today on Native America Calling, Shawn Spruce provides tools the average citizen can use to make informed election decisions with Jason Begay (Navajo), associate professor at The University of Montana School of Journalism; Angela Willeford (Salt River Pima-Maricopa Indian Community member), intergovernmental relations project manager at Salt River Pima-Maricopa Indian Community; Adrian Jawort (Northern Cheyenne), transgender two-spirit journalist, fiction writer, fact checker, and research and Political Director Indigenous Transilience in Montana; and Dr. Torivio A Fodder (Taos Pueblo), manager of the Indigenous Governance Program at the University of Arizona.

There is no break in election campaigns anymore. Party operatives work long hours year round to find ways to bring voters to their side—or at least away from their opponents' side. Even so, as the Midterm Election nears, information is moving at light speed and so much of it is exaggerated, misleading, and even false. Today on Native America Calling, Shawn Spruce provides tools the average citizen can use to make informed election decisions with Jason Begay (Navajo), associate professor at The University of Montana School of Journalism; Angela Willeford (Salt River Pima-Maricopa Indian Community member), intergovernmental relations project manager at Salt River Pima-Maricopa Indian Community; Adrian Jawort (Northern Cheyenne), transgender two-spirit journalist, fiction writer, fact checker, and research and Political Director Indigenous Transilience in Montana; and Dr. Torivio A Fodder (Taos Pueblo), manager of the Indigenous Governance Program at the University of Arizona.

LISTEN FIRST MONTANA Listen first. It is what all great leaders do. Episode 31: Mike Halligan In this episode, Eric speaks with Mike Halligan, Executive Director of the Dennis and Phyllis Washington Foundation and graduate of the first class of Leadership Montana. Mike talks about enlisting in the military and leading soldiers in Vietnam at just 19 years old, and how the lessons he learned in Vietnam pushed him to a career in public policy. He tells listeners about serving for 11 terms in the Montana legislature and how he managed to work effectively across party lines.  We also hear about Mike's career advocating for children and families, his passion for leadership, the importance of listening to all voices in the public policy process, and much more. Eric Halverson Host Eric, a graduate of Leadership Montana Class of 2016 and Masters Class 2019, leads this project with an unmatched curiosity and thirst for learning how each interviewee leans into leading. Eric magically brings to life the story underneath the words and weaves together a series that perfectly illustrates the meaning and value of listening deeply. Originally from Billings, Eric currently resides in Missoula where he serves as the Communications and Development Administrator for Partnership Health Center. Mike Halligan Guest Mike Halligan was raised in Billings, Montana. He enlisted in the U.S. Army and served in Vietnam as an infantry combat platoon leader with the 101st Airborne Division. In 1975, Mr. Halligan completed a Bachelor of Arts Degree in History and Political Science at the University of Montana. He received a Master's Degree in Public Administration in 1977, and graduated from the University of Montana School of Law in 1984. Mr. Halligan served in the Montana State Senate from 1980 to 2002 as the chairman of several legislative standing and interim committees. In the 1995 and 1997 legislative sessions, he served as the Minority Leader. After working as a deputy Missoula County Attorney from 1985 to 1990, Mr. Halligan operated a private family law practice from 1990 to 1999. He also served as the supervising attorney for the Montana Department of Justice, Child Protection Unit, from 1999 to 2002. He served as Director of Government and Corporate Relations for Washington Corporations from 2002 to 2021 and has been Executive Director of the Dennis and Phyllis Washington Foundation since November of 2002.

Rebecca is a Clinical Hypnotherapist, founder and director at Montana School of Hypnotherapy, and a Level 3 Certified IFS Practitioner. Her passion is helping people to love themselves from the inside, find joy in the present moment, and move into loving acceptance of what is. She is grateful to have the opportunity to use this knowledge to empower others and assist them in making positive changes in their own lives. https://www.rebeccalellek.com/ -----

Rebecca is a Clinical Hypnotherapist, founder and director at Montana School of Hypnotherapy, and a Level 3 Certified IFS Practitioner. Her passion is helping people to love themselves from the inside, find joy in the present moment, and move into loving acceptance of what is. She is grateful to have the opportunity to use this knowledge to empower others and assist them in making positive changes in their own lives. https://www.rebeccalellek.com/ -----

In this episode, Co-Founders of Trailhead Learning Collective, Jenn Bell, PT, ScD, COMT, and Audrey Elias, PT, PhD, OCS, talk about their work doing Continuing Education different. Today, they talk about the current state of Continuing Education, integration of information, and addressing Continuing Education courses. How is Trailhead Learning Collective different? Hear about active learning techniques, some upcoming retreats, and get Audrey and Jenn's advice to their younger selves, all on today's episode of The Healthy, Wealthy & Smart Podcast.   Key Takeaways “Our patients are human, but we, as clinicians, are human, and it's important to respect that.” “There is a time and place for everything.” “There is an alternative way to get your continuing education done that also takes care of yourself.” “Remain flexible and keep watching for those opportunities.” “All of it is worth it. All those experiences are things that you can draw on.” “It's alright to go do different things that aren't exactly on your path.”   More about Audrey Elias and Jenn Bell Jenn Bell, PT, ScD, COMT, and Audrey Elias, PT, PhD, OCS, are co-founders of Trailhead Learning Collective. Audrey is clinical faculty in the University of Montana School of Physical Therapy and Rehabilitation Sciences. She completed her DPT in 2009, did her residency with Therapeutic Associates in Washington state, and then completed her PhD in clinical  biomechanics at the University of Montana in 2015. She then did a post-doc at the University of Guelph before returning to UMPT as clinical faculty, training entry-level students and residents in the DPT program and in the UMPT clinic. Her primary area of research involves how psychological factors play into movement, particularly following knee injury. Most importantly, she loves being outside, whether skiing, running, hiking, paddle-boarding, or lounging around a campfire with her son and husband. Jenn is the Program Director and Director of Clinical Education at UMPT. She completed PT school in 2006, then completed her COMT in 2012 and her ScD from Texas Tech in 2013, all while treating patients in a variety of settings in rural Alaska. She has treated patients and taught in PT programs in virtually every setting all over  the world, including Kenya, Ethiopia, and Malawi, and is an internationally-recognized expert in inter-professional education and global health. She is also the co-Primary Investigator and Team Advisor for Montana Inter-Professional Student Hotspotting, improving outcomes in underserved populations in rural Montana. Above all, she is always, always, having a good time outside with family, friends, food, and an adventure, setting an example for her two young daughters. Together, and through the values of adventure, growth, authenticity, collaboration, and respect, Jenn and Audrey are working to build a collective of compassionate, confident, critical thinkers who utilize best-practices in their field.   Suggested Keywords Healthy, Wealthy, Smart, ConEd, Education, Learning, Research, Networking, Integration, Innovation, Collaboration,   Resources Prevention & Wellness for the Running Athlete. https://www.trailheadlearn.com/healthywealthysmart   Get 10% off your first retreat: Mention Healthy, Wealthy, & Smart at Registration.   To learn more, follow Audrey and Jenn at: Website:          https://www.trailheadlearn.com Facebook:       Trailhead Learning Collective Instagram:       @audreyroseelias                         @jennbell427                         @trailheadlearning   Subscribe to Healthy, Wealthy & Smart: Website:                      https://podcast.healthywealthysmart.com Apple Podcasts:          https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/healthy-wealthy-smart/id532717264 Spotify:                        https://open.spotify.com/show/6ELmKwE4mSZXBB8TiQvp73 SoundCloud:               https://soundcloud.com/healthywealthysmart Stitcher:                       https://www.stitcher.com/show/healthy-wealthy-smart iHeart Radio:               https://www.iheart.com/podcast/263-healthy-wealthy-smart-27628927   Read the Full Transcript Here:  00:07 Welcome to the healthy, wealthy and smart podcast. Each week we interview the best and brightest in physical therapy, wellness and entrepreneurship. We give you cutting edge information you need to live your best life healthy, wealthy and smart. The information in this podcast is for entertainment purposes only and should not be used as personalized medical advice. And now, here's your host, Dr. Karen Litzy.   00:35 Hey everybody, welcome back to the podcast. I am your host, Karen Litzy. I want to thank you all for joining us today. And again, if you haven't then definitely subscribe to the podcast on any platform in which podcasts are streamed. So today's episode, we are talking about doing continuing education different and my guest today are Dr. Jenn Bell and Dr. Art Audrey Elias. They are cofounders of Trailhead learning collective. Audrey is a clinical faculty in the University of Montana School of Physical Therapy and rehabilitative sciences. She completed her DPT in 2009 Did her residency with therapeutic associates in Washington state and then completed her PhD in Clinical biomechanics at the University of Montana in 2015. She then did a postdoc at the University of Guelph before returning to you and PT as clinical faculty training entry level students and residents in the DPT program and in the UN PT clinic. Her primary area of research involves how psychological factors play into movement, particularly following knee injury. Most importantly, she loves being outside weather, skiing, running, hiking, paddleboarding, or lounging around a campfire with her son and her husband. Jen is the program director and clinical and Director of Clinical Education at UMP T. She completed PT school in 2006 then completed her Colm T in 2012, and her side Dee from Texas Tech in 2013, all while treating patients in a variety of settings in rural Alaska. She has treated patients and taught and PT programs in virtually every setting all over the world including Kenya, Ethiopia and Malawi, and is an internationally recognized expert in interprofessional education and Global Health. She is also the CO primary investigator and team advisor for Montana interprofessional student hotspotting improving outcomes in underserved populations in rural Montana. Above all, she is always having a good time outside with family friends food and an adventurer setting example for her two young daughters together and through the values of adventure growth and authenticity, collaboration and respect. Jen and Audrey are working to build a collective of compassionate, confident critical thinkers who utilize best practices in their field. Now, like I said, they are the founders of Trailhead learning collective. And Jen and Audrey have a special offer for healthy, wealthy and smart listeners. If you go to their website, which is on the podcast dot healthy, wealthy dot smart page, and you want to check out their next learning opportunity. Then you get 10% off because you're listening to this podcast. So if you go to Trailhead learned.com Or go to the podcast website, and when you apply to be part of their next learning opportunity, and mentioned this podcast will get 10% off. So a big thank you to Jen and Audrey for that. And in the meantime, everyone enjoyed today's episode. Hello, Jen and Audrey. Thank you so much for coming on to the podcast today to talk about the innovative way you guys are doing continuing education courses. So doing Con Ed differently, and I love it. But before we get into that, Jen, why don't we start with you say a little bit about yourself. So the viewers know or the viewers, the listeners know who's who.   04:12 Yeah, it sounds great. So I'm Tim Doyle and I'm the Program Director and the Director of Clinical Education at the University of Montana's physical therapy program. I've been at UN for nine years. I'm just going in to start my 10th year there, which is wild to think I've been doing this for almost a decade. And prior to moving to Montana, I was in Rural Clinical Practice in Alaska. And so I lived in a town of 2500 people at the end of the road for bed hospital. So got to kind of treat whatever walked in the door. It was a really great opportunity. And during that time, I was working on my doctorate of science who Texas Tech University Health Sciences Center. So yeah, it's all about   04:53 Excellent, Audrey. Go ahead a little bit more about yourself.   04:59 Thanks, Karen. And I'm Audrey Elias. I am also at the University of Montana and clinical faculty there. I treat patients in the clinic, but most of my time is actually treating patients with students. So I'm a preceptor in our integrated clinical education program. And then I also teach in the DPT program, as well. I did my PhD at the University of Montana, I did my DPT at the University of Montana. So I pretty much have been in Montana for a very long time. But I also practiced in Washington, in the far west, on the Olympic Peninsula, in rural areas where we saw lots of different folk. Yeah, and then Jen and I are also cofounders of Trailhead learning collective. So we're heavy, heavy University of Montana. But we're also doing this other thing.   06:02 And we are going to talk about that today. But before we get into that, let's talk about the why behind it. So what has your clinical education or continuing clinical education been like in the past where you thought you know, this, I'm not connecting with this and I need to do something different. So talk a little bit about your journeys.   06:26 And you go ahead   06:29 yeah, um, so you know, carrying that's a great question kind of what informed us to get to this place or we decided to found Trailhead learning collective. You know, I've done I've been in clinical practice and a PT for 15 years, and I've done everything from going to CSM was 17,000 of my closest friends to Education Leadership Conference with the APTA Academy of Education, to, you know, the weekend course that someone brings into their clinic. And what I find oftentimes is that I'm in these courses. And, you know, I'm, I'm finding myself kind of not super engaged with the learning, there's a lot of lecture. And, you know, sitting around going from being in a really active profession where I'm doing everything from crawling around on the ground with my patients to helping them stand up and walk to sitting oftentimes at a plant in a clinic all weekend long, being lectured to. And so I was really looking for something different from that. Actually, what's your experience been? Well,   07:39 I did my orthopedic residency right out of school, and in private practice with therapeutic associates in Port Angeles, Washington, and I averaged one three day weekend of Con Ed a month for almost a year and a half. And I hosted those courses, I got the bagels, I got the coffee, I made sure the bathrooms were clean, I did all of that. So I've done a lot of that. And I've been I did my PhD and went to CSM was 17,000 of my closest friends over and over and over again. I've done like every kind of Con, as you can imagine, I've done you know, 45 minute online things through Harkness school for dance injury. I've done level one pelvic floor. And, you know, they got real intimate with 15 brand new people. And to be so to be my authentic self here, I will fall asleep if I am sitting down for more than 20 minutes. And I will not remember a single thing. Anyone tells me if I'm being lectured at, if I'm not actively engaged in I fell asleep in my first class in undergrad. I it's just how I work. So I have to have really engaging Con Ed, you know, if I'm going to learn anything, otherwise, I do it all on my own afterward, right? So I'll go to 18 hours on a weekend where I don't get to go on my run. I don't get to spend time with my family. I have a 10 year old now I don't get to do these other things that I wanted to do. And then I would have to go home and I'd have to review it all on the treadmill. Because now I'm moving I'm doing stuff and then I can actually learn or I'd have to like go for a run with Jen and tell her all about what we just did in order for me to actually process and I just thought to myself You know, I want something different. I want, I want to use this, I want to use this information immediately. And I also think, doing my PhD, we did, I did a randomized clinical trial, post ACL reconstruction stuff, and just trying to get help people understand how to use that. I can't just tell them, it does not work. It doesn't work. We have to do it, we have to not just show we have to do and work together on it. So yeah, I think it's just a long time of realizing that there's a place and a time for everything. And but there's but there needs to be this thing as well, that can serve people like me.   10:57 And, you know, you kind of described what a lot of continuing education courses are in the PT world where you go, you sit at a plan, you're taking notes, maybe you get a stretch break, you have like some sort of pastry, and coffee. And the question I always had with those in particular is, what if it's not your learning style? What if you need a little something different, like something that involves more demonstration, more movement, more, getting up more? Just a different style of learning. So what have Have you seen the current state of continuing education? And do you feel like we're really maximizing professional development? Go ahead, Jen.   11:44 Oh, Audrey, go ahead. Oh, well, I feel like what's really interesting is that in a physical therapists are super committed to learning. Just in general, I was actually so we're both huge nerds. So he's doing quite a lot of literature search on this. And if I was trying to write an abstract for CSM, I wouldn't be able to, because you have to have at least five papers within the last five or seven years or something. And there just aren't any, there's no literature on what's going on. With Con Ed, currently, there's a paper just this year about so in the PT and PT J, with continuing education courses for orthopedic and sports PTs in the US often lack supporting evidence. And so they went through and review available intervention courses. So great paper. But there was one by Adrian Lowe this year, looking at the impact of a three hour PMP course, on low back pain, and how people did. It was pretty good. It was really interesting. But otherwise, well, next paper is 15 years ago, that I combined. So we don't really know what's going on in the form of knowing that I'm familiar with, we don't really know, in terms of my anecdotal experience, go, the learning environments that I have experienced are not really set up to maximize learning based on pedagogical evidence. So we know that active learning is important. And it just, it makes it like it's really, really hard. We just don't see a ton of that. And I think what happens is that, then we get where content becomes like a chore, right? It's a box, you have to tick, I gotta get Montana, I have to have 20 hours every two years. So I think 3030 Whatever it is, I have to have it and I have to go and check in order to check them tick that box. And I think it ends up becoming problematic on a lot of different levels. Yeah. I don't know if I answered that question completely.   14:15 I think so. Jen, do you need to fill in any blanks there? Yeah, well,   14:20 you know, I think what Audrey was hitting on thinking about in our continuing education courses, we can bring in the pedagogical research, just like we bring in to physical therapy research. And until you know, we do this a lot in our entry level program, we're thinking about what are the best ways that adults learned? How can we convey this information in a way that's effective that's going to address our learning outcomes, not just our patient outcomes. And so that's really one of the things that Audrey and I are looking to bring to our Trailhead learning collective courses and retreats is bringing in the research on active and learning mean, and teaching adult learners. And so bringing that in, you know, really minimizing the amount of lecture that we do engaging in active learning techniques, whether it's going through cases together, having discussions, you know, putting up big whiteboards and doing some, you know, throwing out ideas and looking at other people's ideas, you know, that way really kind of shifting the paradigm from being teacher centered to being learner centered. So you know, when you're in that lecture based course, it's about this expert that's standing in front of you talking and conveying to you what you should be doing in clinical practice. We're really trying to flip that and bring all of these learners together, oftentimes have, you know, decades of clinical practice, have all of these pearls all of this knowledge, and asking them to share it with one another. And we'll bring in the evidence on, you know, the the content that we're teaching on. But really, not bringing a group of people together that have years of clinical practice, and have learned a lot and asking them to not talk to one another and just listen to what an expert says. So really trying to kind of flip that model and really focusing in on the learner experience, and learner engagement.   16:16 Right. And that kind of leads me to the next question, what a perfect transition is, you know, going from a traditional model, which can be effective in getting information from me, the teacher to you, the student? But is it effective when it comes to information processing integration into clinical life? So can you kind of talk about the those concepts as perhaps not being equal and not being the same? And how can we get better integration of information?   16:58 Yeah, can you make a great point, you know, lecture is a really effective way to just transfer knowledge. But that piece of integrating it and making changes is where we see that active learning tends to be more effective. Like Audrey said, there's really not great evidence about, you know, do continuing education courses, impact and change how people engage in clinical practice, we hope and we believe that, you know, if we can effectively teach you something, then you'll use that information. So that's like, that's a gap in the research. But we do know that active learning techniques, improve retention, and kind of consolidation of information, and kind of thinking that information deeper into our longer term memory. And so that's why we use active learning techniques. There's also some really cool, early research coming out on looking at the impact of exercise of aerobic exercise, on learning. And so boom strand and inco, Hall and 2020 published a study and they looked at a single bout of aerobic exercise. And what they found is that it improves attention, concentration, and learning and memory functions and young adults. And so there's some studies like that coming out showing that if we can incorporate this component of physical activity, with our learning, either right before, during or after there's some different sides looking at the different benefits of those, then we can improve learning and retention as well.   18:33 And can you give some examples of active learning techniques? Because we've said that a couple of times, and I can just picture people being like, Okay, that's cool.   18:42 But what does that mean? It was so fun. Because I mean, we've both been teaching. For so long, both I will say we've taught both in the entry level DPT program. And then we've also we teach continuing ed courses before this as well. And mostly in that lecture based thing, we're like, oh, I don't like to teach that either. And I think we both were like, Okay, we need to change this up. So we've gone to a week long training on for the National Institute of scientific teaching, and just teaching how to teach in this way. In the sciences. It's very, it's pretty easy to do in the humanities. But in the sciences, it can be very, like, Oh, I just need to get this information across. Right. So in STEM fields, it's like, well, I just need to know how to pipette or whatever in chemistry. So there are lots of different ways so we can do like gallery walks, put up things with small groups. They process the information put up different ways and how they would do it around the room the rest of the day, and then their entire group walks around the process, we can do two to one, activities, give a prompt, everyone has a minute, maybe, to think on their own individually, maybe write something down there is that reflective cognitive process that comes from actively hand writing something down, that there are mental changes who have to write it down, turn to their neighbor, talk about the individual thing, and then come back in a larger group and, and everybody has to go around and say what their partner did, and pros and cons thereof. So lots of discussion. Obviously, when Jen, you had a really good one that you are doing,   20:50 what are the ones that I do with some of my classes is that I, when I start to teach about a new topic, the first thing I do is kind of the same scenario that Audrey just talked about candidate seat by myself, think with a partner and think with a group. But I prompt the group and the learner is to think about what it is you need to know about this topic. So based off your experiences you've had so far, kind of brainstorm, what are the things that you need to know? So we're really priming them to, you know, what is it that I do know? What is it that I don't know? What are things that are what are those, maybe when we share out to group, then people are going to identify those unknown unknowns that they didn't know, they needed to know. And so we can kind of start off by kind of forming a list of everything we're gonna need to go through and talk about, it's great for me, because then I can be like, oh, I need to make sure that we you know, dig into this some more and, and then at the end, we can go back through that list and be like, did we do we know everything we needed to know going into this? And so oftentimes, you know, instead of just starting off with me, like, hi, welcome. And then I start lecturing, why don't we start with you kind of digging into what it is that you want to learn about a topic, and going from there?   22:07 Yeah, I love that that's very similar to a course that I took last year through Goldman Sachs called the Goldman Sachs 10 KSB program, which is 10,000 small business program. And it is exactly what you just described, we would get the information, we would they would give us prompts to do ourselves, we have a paired partner, where we would talk about them, then we go into the larger group and talk about what our partners did. And the partners would talk about what we did. And it was really, really helpful. And that's the first time I've experienced that I've never experienced that at a continuing education course. So in it, it it really, like when you're done, you're like, Oh, I yeah, I know this, I understand it, I get the concepts, it's like rooted in there, because you had so many conversations about it with one on one with your instructor and with the group.   23:00 I think physical therapy can be so at work, we are so busy, right? Seeing 12 to 20 people a day, sometimes you have to be going, I know, and getting your documentation done all this stuff. It's rote, you're just going, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom. And so going into a Con Ed course and learning a clinical Pearl for five minutes. And maybe you even talk briefly with your buddy about how you might use that. The sad fact is that on Monday, when you go in your brain, you are going to drop down into habitual levels that just are, especially if you've been in practice for more than six months. And it takes a lot of energy to, to, in the moment, reflect back on what you did and saw and actually incorporate it deeply into your body. But with these techniques, we can get at least a tiny little tendril, of a root. And hopefully that can grow and root a little deeper, so that we see more change in how we're actually working. And we're actually treating patients   24:17 and does it sounds like we're becoming a little too robotic. A little too robotic, maybe in work a little too robotic in continuing ed. You know, like, you're okay, I have to go. I'm going to sit, I'm going to listen to these lectures. I'm going to get through it. I'm going to get my CPUs and then I'm going to do this on Monday and then it just doesn't happen. So then what what happens to that continuing education? Does it just fall out of your head like what happens?   24:47 Well, how many times have you take learned anatomy of the hip? Every single continuing education course you teach anatomy of the hip? I have taught I learned it. I've taught it many, many times. Each and every single time, I forget it. And I need that review because those things do drop out of our heads so quickly. And it's not bad. It's not saying that we're wrong or awful, that is normal. That is being a human, we can't get away from it.   25:18 One of the things that we try to do with these opportunities to really engage with the different people that are there in this in this group with you learning together, is giving you the opportunity to take that that new knowledge, or maybe that review of knowledge you've learned before, and take it and look at it a different way. And think about how you know, the person you're working with is going to use that in their practice, and then really work as a team to think about how can I take this knowledge in on Monday, in my setting, I mean, you know, here in Montana, I have clinicians that are going back to, to dot Montana, and are practicing in the next PT is 100 miles away. So how can they incorporate that into their clinical practice, versus the clinician, you know, that's in a sports specialized clinic in Bozeman, Montana. And so we really want to empower clinicians not just to suck in all the information that we're giving to them, but actually really dig into the material and think about how they can use it. And so one of the things we're trying to do with our courses is challenge the assumption that in these 15, CEUs, that you're going to earn, that we have to pack in as much material as possible. That's really not an assumption that we're working off of. So we're we're going to kind of switch that paradigm and say, instead of having this massive breadth of information, we're gonna give you a smaller amount of information, but we're gonna go a lot deeper. And we're really going to dig into how you can use this in clinical practice. And so it's just a kind of a shift in that assumption.   27:01 Yeah. And that leads me into the next question, again, a great lead in how is Trailhead learning collective different? How were you set up differently,   27:10 one of the things that we talked about a lot. And going back to when you said, it sounds like we're getting a little robotic. I think one of our kind of prime values, our main values is authenticity and respect. And that's respecting everything from the land that we're on to the humans that we're working with. We are working with humans, our patients are humans, but are we as clinicians are human. And I think it's important to respect that, like taking that much time away is hard. And burnout is very, very real and extremely prevalent. So one of the things that we are really wanting to do is make a trailhead learning retreat, actually, that like it's a retreat, it is the time to rediscover joy. In physical therapy, it's a time to go to a cool place, have someone take care of you. So all inclusive, your housings included, it's delightful, you're on a mountain or on a beach or wherever we happen to be in the desert. In house chef cooking your meals that are delicious, and primed for you. And having active learning where you're an active participant and feeling engaged, and validated and real, and also get to go out and adventure like experience the place. Yeah, I've been to so many cool places for continuing education, and ended up sitting in a plant in a clinic or in a conference room for the entire day. And then, in order to get any exercise at all, I just went for a run on the treadmill in the hotel. And I didn't get to experience anything about that place. So I think one of the thing that is making Trailhead different is we're really trying to treat the learner as a whole human being and make this time worth it both personally and professionally. In kind of all of those different aspects when you go for a cool trail run, we can make that happen. And you can get 15 hours you can tick that box for sure. And we'll make it worth your time. And you get to be taken care of for a little while.   29:44 Yeah, kind of reminds me of when you see on social media people saying How come I didn't take Monday off of work after having this continuing ed course it was too much and now I'm like totally burned out. So it sounds like maybe this would quell that a little bit. it. And the other part I wanted to talk about is something that we spoke about before we went on. And that's making a connection with the people in the course with you. Because so often we go to these courses, maybe there's 20 people, maybe there's 100, and you end up knowing no one, when you leave. Right. So how, how are you addressing that?   30:21 Yeah, Karen, that's a great point, I went to a continuing education course, a few years ago in San Francisco, and coming from, you know, at the time I was practicing in rural Alaska. And so I really would have loved to get to know more about, like, what is clinical practice, like, in San Francisco compared to, you know, what I am navigating and I left not knowing a single person, you know, part of that is on me, I didn't, you know, I did the thing that a lot of us do it kind of courses, I sat at my phone in the plant, I said, some, you know, small talk at the coffee. And so we're making a really deliberate effort, we're all in the same housing, we're sharing all of our meals together, and engaging in physical activity together, in addition to the time that we're doing the act of learning and getting those continuing ed credits done. And so really creating a space for folks to show up authentically. So I don't expect anyone to show up to her courses, having had 100% success with every single patient they've ever treated, but we want folks to show up and, you know, talk openly and honestly about the places that they struggle in their clinical practice, and, you know, had those conversations and to have this network develop, as we're in this space together. The the course that we're teaching in October is, of course, provincial wellness for the running athlete. And, you know, Audrey is gonna start us off with some really great conversation about bias and how our beliefs about ourselves as runners impacts how we believe and talk to our running athlete, patients. And so you know, being able to kind of explore those parts of ourselves and how they inform our clinical practice, or maybe, at times, potentially cloud our judgment, we can start to have those more intimate conversations as clinicians and people and start to build that network so that when you leave, you have this collective of physical therapists that you know, that you've created some bonds with.   32:25 Yeah, so kind of being a little more social. And, you know, off it sounds to me, like business retreats that I've gone on, you know, even if it's a one day mastermind, you leave with these people who, even after one day, kind of stay with you, because you've purposefully made those bonds.   32:46 Yeah, exactly. And I think that's one of the things that, that the business role does really well is that if we're gonna bring all these people together, we're going to, you know, put them in spaces and create opportunities for them to network on that deeper level. And in physical therapy, we are so focused on getting our patients better at all are we're so focused on the patient, that oftentimes the time when we gather for continued education, we're not speaking about each other as clinicians. And, and like Audra said those hope people that show up. And so that's one of the ways that we are approaching this differently.   33:24 Yeah, it sounds it sounds delightful. And now as we start to wrap things up, what do you want the listeners to take away? What are your big talking points? Or maybe there's only one? I don't know. But what do you want people to take away from? How and why you're doing things differently?   33:47 I think one of the one of the things that I want people to understand for themselves is that there is a time and place for everything. And sometimes you need that quick online 30 minutes learning about FAI, or stroke or whatever, because you have a patient who's really like, right, then you need a little bit and you should get some credit for the work that you do in that moment. I think that's excellent. I really like the you know, read for credit that JLS PT does, I had a paper that was a read for credit paper and I was like, This is great. Somebody's gonna like get value, monetary value from reading my paper. That is excellent. traditional lecture has its place but then I think it's fine. I think it's important for people to say you know what, this is what I need. I I need this time and I'm okay with going and getting it I deserve that. I am a value as well. And this is important. So I think you know valuing Oh, that kind of experience a little more. want somebody to take that away? Well, you know, I think that   35:09 I have two small daughters. And oftentimes the parenting people say, you know, it's really important to take care of yourself so that you can better take care of your kids. And I think that we have to remember that as clinicians, and so finding ways to really take care of ourselves as, as people and humans, as we're doing this continuing education, certainly there's those times where like Audrey said, you need that quick Con Ed. But there, there is an alternative way to get your continuing education done. That also takes care of yourself.   35:43 Yeah, I love it. I love the concept around it. And I, I think you guys are going to be successful in this because it sounds like it's plugging a hole in the continuing education world that people really want. And I also think it's outstanding that you are both been educators for close to a decade. And you can bring all of that to, to continuing education courses. Because I think that's really important. Now, let's talk about when the course is where people can find it social media, where can they find you give us all the details.   36:28 Yeah, so our upcoming courses October 7, eighth, and ninth in Whitefish, Montana. So as I said earlier, so of course on prevention and wellness for the running athlete that is paired with guided trail running with our friends and partners with Alpine reading diets. So you can find information about our course and upcoming courses, we're about to announce a winter course that snowshoeing skiing, and biking, fat biking. That's all on our website, Trailhead. learned.com,   37:01 I wanted to say that we're gonna do 10% off the first retreat for healthy, wealthy and smart listeners, just we so the way we do it is we get your information, and then call you this is a very intimate environment. So we want to start off that way. So you would send us your information that you're interested in the course we call you, we get everything. And at that point, just say that you heard about it from healthy, wealthy and smart.   37:29 The last question is what I asked everyone, and knowing where you are now in your life, and in your career, what advice would you give to your younger self and your younger self, let's say maybe right out of PT, school,   37:43 you know, the advice that I would give to my younger self, is actually advice that I continue to get to my, I'm not gonna say older self, but current self. And we'll get to my future self. You know, I read this great book, by Adam Grant called Think again. And in the book, he talks about, you know, really staying flexible in your thinking. And I think there's been a lot of times in my life that I've had a five year plan, and I'm going to fix my five year plan. And I think I would encourage my younger self to have maybe a very loose plan, but to not get too stuck on what the five year plan is, there are certainly times in life where that five year plan helps you stick it out, like when you're doing your doctorate or science. But there's been so many opportunities that if I was, you know, had pigeon holed myself into that five year plan, I would have missed them. And so to remain flexible, and keep watching for those various opportunities.   38:42 Yeah, I love it. Audrey, how about you?   38:47 I think they would give the same advice to myself now that I did, that I would give to my younger self as well. And it's advice that I give to my students. And that would be that it's all worth it. Like all of those experiences are things that you can draw on for your as you're talking to patients. And as you're thinking critically, I teach clinical reasoning, and all of those experiences give you some flexibility of thought. And I think that's really important. So like going and just experimenting and being okay, like it's alright to go do different things that aren't exactly on   39:30 your path. Excellent advice from both of you. And I do want to thank you so much for coming on the podcast and talking about doing continuing education different with Trailhead learning collective. I think it's it sounds like a great opportunity, and I encourage all the listeners to check it out. We'll have links at the podcast, follow them on social media. So thank you so much for coming on and sharing all of your fun stuff. Coming up. Thanks so much.   40:03 Thanks for having us. Ontarian it's been great to chat with you. Yes. Awesome.   40:06 Thanks so much,   40:07 and everyone thanks so much for listening. Have a great couple of days and stay healthy, wealthy and smart.   40:13 Thank you for listening and please subscribe to the podcast at podcast dot healthy, wealthy smart.com. And don't forget to follow us on social media

"One of the real benefits from being away from music is that you really appreciate it more. I understand what it's like to live without that opportunity to make music. Now I'm immersed in what I always wanted to do."Coreen Duffy is director of choral activities at the University of Montana School of Music, where she conducts Chamber Chorale and University Choir, teaches conducting, choral methods, and supervises student teachers. Under her direction, the UM Chamber Chorale has earned invitations to perform at the NW American Choral Directors Association (ACDA) Conference in 2022, as well as from Vox Anima to perform at Cadogan Hall and Southwark Cathedral in London (2022), and the Montana International Choral Festival (2019, 2022). Duffy is an active clinician and composer; her works are published by Walton Music, ECS, and Pavane Publishing. A specialist in Jewish choral music, Duffy has presented sessions at national conferences for the American Choral Directors Association (ACDA) and at the international conference of the European Center for Jewish Music in Hannover, Germany. Duffy serves several national choral organizations, including as Co-Chair for World Musics and Cultures for Northwest ACDA, as well as Northwest Division Representative on the NAfME Council for Choral Education, and on the Editorial Board for The Choral Scholar, a publication by the National Collegiate Choral Organization. In Missoula, Duffy is the Artistic Director of the Missoula Community Chorus, and serves on the board and the Artistic Committee for the Montana International Choral Festival.Email choirfampodcast@gmail.com to get in contact with our hosts.You can email Coreen at coreen.duffy@umontana.edu or find her on Facebook or on Instagram: @coreenduffy .Podcast music from Podcast.coPhoto in episode artwork by Trace Hudson from Pexels

Episode Notes All too often we encounter people who we think cannot possibly do the same things we can do. Any of us who happen to be blind can tell you of the many times we are told that we cannot do something simply because we do not see or we cannot see well. The result of these beliefs held by many is that the unemployment rate among employable blind people, according to the U.S. Census, is nearly 70%. Did you know that this rate increased from 50% in 1910 to the 70% rate we see today? Did you know that by 1940 there were three blind people participating in the U.S. House of Representatives and two in the Senate? In our episode today we meet Peggy Chong who is known as The Blind History Lady. Peggy tells us many stories of unstoppable blind people. She gives us a glimpse of life in the late 1800s and the first half of the 20th century and how blindness and blind people were treated. Her stories will surprise you and they will leave you wanting to know more. Some directories do not show full show notes. For the complete transcription please visit https://michaelhingson.com/podcast About our Guest: Peggy Chong's book in print, Don Mahoney: Television Star is on the shelves at many book sellers. She writes and lectures as The Blind History Lady. Her infatuation with stories she heard of those she now calls her “Blind Ancestors” surprised and inspired her to learn more, for herself at first and then bring their light to the world. Peggy researches their stories and brings to life the REAL struggles of what it was and is still, to be a blind person in the United States. Peggy is a long-time researcher and Historical author of many articles on the blind in the United States. She has written for publications that include The Braille Monitor, Dialogue Magazine, Future Reflections, The Minnesota Bulletin and the Iowa History Journal. Currently, she chairs the Preservation of Historical Documents for the National Federation of the Blind of Colorado, to save the single-source files, records, news clippings and correspondence of the blind of Colorado dating back to 1915. https://theblindhistorylady.com/ Email: theblindhistorylady@gmail.com Book: https://amzn.to/30ZrjUh About the Host: Michael Hingson is a New York Times best-selling author, international lecturer, and Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe. Michael, blind since birth, survived the 9/11 attacks with the help of his guide dog Roselle. This story is the subject of his best-selling book, Thunder Dog. Michael gives over 100 presentations around the world each year speaking to influential groups such as Exxon Mobile, AT&T, Federal Express, Scripps College, Rutgers University, Children's Hospital, and the American Red Cross just to name a few. He is Ambassador for the National Braille Literacy Campaign for the National Federation of the Blind and also serves as Ambassador for the American Humane Association's 2012 Hero Dog Awards. https://michaelhingson.com https://www.facebook.com/michael.hingson.author.speaker/ https://twitter.com/mhingson https://www.youtube.com/user/mhingson https://www.linkedin.com/in/michaelhingson/ accessiBe Links https://accessibe.com/ https://www.youtube.com/c/accessiBe https://www.linkedin.com/company/accessibe/mycompany/ https://www.facebook.com/accessibe/ Thanks for listening! Thanks so much for listening to our podcast! If you enjoyed this episode and think that others could benefit from listening, please share it using the social media buttons on this page. Do you have some feedback or questions about this episode? Leave a comment in the section below! Subscribe to the podcast If you would like to get automatic updates of new podcast episodes, you can subscribe to the podcast on Apple Podcasts or Stitcher. You can also subscribe in your favorite podcast app. Leave us an Apple Podcasts review Ratings and reviews from our listeners are extremely valuable to us and greatly appreciated. They help our podcast rank higher on Apple Podcasts, which exposes our show to more awesome listeners like you. If you have a minute, please leave an honest review on Apple Podcasts. Transcription Notes: Michael Hingson  00:00 Access Cast and accessiBe Initiative presents Unstoppable Mindset. The podcast we're inclusion, diversity and the unexpected meet. Hi, I'm Michael Hingson, Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe and the author of the number one New York Times bestselling book, Thunder dog, the story of a blind man, his guide dog and the triumph of trust. Thanks for joining me on my podcast as we explore our own blinding fears of inclusion unacceptance and our resistance to change. We will discover the idea that no matter the situation, or the people we encounter, our own fears, and prejudices often are our strongest barriers to moving forward. The unstoppable mindset podcast is sponsored by accessiBe, that's a c c e s s i  capital B e. Visit www.accessibe.com to learn how you can make your website accessible for persons with disabilities. And to help make the internet fully inclusive by the year 2025. Glad you dropped by we're happy to meet you and to have you here with us.   Michael Hingson  01:20 Welcome to another episode of The Unstoppable Mindset podcast. I'm your host, Mike Hingson. And we have today a person who I regard as a very special guest, and I hope you will as well. And besides that she's kind of fun. I want you to meet Peggy Chong, who is known by many as the blind history lady Peggy, welcome.   Peggy Chong  01:42 Well, thank you very much for having me on.   Michael Hingson  01:45 Well, we're glad you're here. So I want you to start if you would, by telling us just a little bit about you, things that you want people to know. And, and maybe things you don't want people to know. But go ahead and it's your turn.   Peggy Chong  02:00 Thank you very much. I work as the blind history lady, and it is what I am doing in my quote, retirement. I research and write stories about what I call our blind ancestors. I hated history in school. I didn't like writing in school. I did like researching. I did like that part. When I was growing up, I was involved in the blind community as a child. Because my mother was blind. She went to the North Dakota School for the Blind, and was very close to her classmates and those that she spent a lot of time with, during each year while she was at the school. Back when she went to the School for the Blind. It was located in Bathgate, North Dakota. And so she didn't get home. Most years except for Christmas, maybe sometimes at Easter. So she didn't see her family very much. Her school family was much closer to her in many ways. So I knew the blind piano tuners and the door to door salesman and the rug weavers and stuff growing up. When I got to be, oh, you know, like 20, you know, teenage years and stuff, when we all know everything and start losing it after that. I was rather embarrassed by them. Because I was starting to meet blind lawyers and blind businessmen, blind people who had nice homes and jobs and the blind people that I knew the old people who were probably only in their 50s younger than I am now. But they had a small trailer house, or a very small house. Not fancy. They had small apartments. I remember we visited one couple frequently and they had a basement apartment. It was very dark. They were both totally blind. And my dad was over six feet tall. So he always had to walk with his head down because bump on all the pipes and the beams in the basement. But they were fun people and I didn't appreciate them at the time. What I didn't understand back then is they were working people they were supporting themselves. They were trailblazers. They may have only been the blind drug Weaver or the blind door to door salesman in my mind, but they were the ones who made the path for the blind lawyers and the blind business people who have the nice offices. And so then back in the late 70s Because I was so familiar with the old guard as they were known. I was given the task of cleaning out all Old Files at the National Federation of the Blind of Minnesota's offices, because they said, you'll know these people, you'll recognize if there's something that's important to keep or not. The task was to keep all the basic important records, the minutes, the financials, any important correspondence and so on those records dated back to 1919. And every so often, I'd stop and read a little bit of this, read a little bit of that. And the more I read, the more I kept saving. And putting aside even though it was supposed to go in the trash pile, because it was interesting to me, especially when I started to read about our blind congressman, our blind congressman, was somebody I didn't know about who was this blind Congressman that they were visiting in the 1920s, to try and get them to support these legislation.   Peggy Chong  05:58 So I put it aside. And after I finished that task, I checked out who the blind Congressman was, and his name was Thomas David Shaw, who was a blind man from the Minneapolis St. Paul area. An attorney, who I always joke about went blind because of smoking. He was an attorney who was on a break in North Dakota courtroom, they had just in salt stalled this new electric cigarette lighter, and he liked new things. And he tried out the electric cigarette lighter, however, it shorted out and blew him across the room. And within a few weeks, he lost all of his vision. So he didn't think he could be a lawyer anymore. He spent a lot of money and trying to get his vision back. When he ran out of money. His friend said, Well, hey, why don't you come here and give a speech for me here. He was a great orator. And give a speech for me there. And pretty soon somebody said, Well, why don't you run for Congress. And he did. So he was elected to Congress, we had a blind congressman in 1914. He served until 1925, when he went over to the US Senate. And he stayed there until his death in 1935. His family were dead serious when I interviewed his family that Thomas Shaw had been killed, murdered by the, what they said was the mafia arm of the Democratic Party. And when you start to put all the evidence together, back from our time, looking back, they, they have a lot of circumstantial evidence that could have probably bought brought some charges against the driver of the vehicle, who ran him down just before Christmas. So because of Thomas's story, I got really interested in the stories of our blind ancestors, I have been collecting data ever since the 70s. And finally, then, in about 2014, or so my husband basically told me either get rid of that stuff, or do something with it, because it's crowding the den. So I did, I began to write for dialogue magazine, I wrote their history column for about six years, and have been getting articles in magazines if I can, and newspapers about the blind ancestors that I research and find them fascinating, because these are men and women who, in the 1800s, early 1900s, were making a living supporting families, vibrant parts of their community. And they didn't have the benefits that we have today as blind people. They didn't have many of them the luxury of a good education, although a lot of the people I do research were students at schools for the blind, but many of them who went blind in their 20s 30s 40s did not have that opportunity. There was no rehabilitation services for adults, they had to learn on their own. And in several cases, they had to learn more than one code because just like in the schools for the blind, English may come in American Braille. But the science was in New York point, and maybe some of the classes for History or English or whatever, had novels that they were to read in moon type or a raised printing of some sort. So these men and women, especially the ones I research, I admire because, without rehabilitate without any financial support without any classes, they taught themselves alternative techniques for reading and writing, keeping their accounts relearning how to do their farming, how to raise their animals, how to run their stores, how to be a lawyer, everything, and I admire them for the things that they do. So I try to dig down deep, interviewing as many of the descendants as I can, or finding any of the records they've left behind to tell their story of the encouragement that they can provide our history can provide is, I think, very valuable today. The old adage, when we were in school, you know, if you don't learn your history, you're destined to repeat it. That's very true with blindness as well. I don't think we have sometimes as blind people as much ingenuity, or get up and go because we haven't hit rock bottom like many of them did.   Michael Hingson  11:09 Well, I think it's definitely true that the world has changed. And I think you're right. We some of us haven't hit rock bottom, like they did. But I wonder if they viewed it as rock bottom, or how they viewed their lives at the time, because what they did was, they did move on. And I wonder if they just viewed it as kind of a challenge to just keep moving forward, something that we don't do as much today, in part because we have a lot of the conveniences and other things that maybe they didn't have access to?   Peggy Chong  11:51 Well, I think there's a lot of truth to that. The one of the things that I have really learned over all of this research, and I did a lot of genealogical research for my own personal family, which is where, which is how I decided that I was going to approach this as they were my ancestors. And through that genealogical research, I took many classes and seminars on how to interpret what you were reading, how to interpret what was going on at the time, which basically meant, if you don't understand what's going on at the time, you can't understand why your family did what they did. And with our blind ancestors, it's the same thing. Some of them did hit rock bottom, in that they realized, for example, at the Iowa home for the blind, which was a short lived, it was supposed to be an industrial home where you could go to as an adult person who had gone blind, hopefully learn a trade find a place to live. The staff were paid. Like $20 a month, plus they had room and board where the blind folks were to pay two to $4 a month for their room and board work in the shop, which didn't provide them with a lot of hours many times. And so the people who went to that home ended up owing money to the state by the time they were able to break free. And there were advertisements in the newspapers from Knoxville, Iowa, which is where the home was, and the counties where these people were going back to because at that time, the counties would say, well, we're not responsible for this person because they came from your county, even though they've been in our county five years. That's where their home is. And they don't, they don't fall underneath our charitable giving, or our plans for handing out any kind of pension or compensation. So there would be ads in the paper, you please send shoes or a shirt or money for train fare for this person to return to your county, or please donate money so that John Smith's family can get them back from Knoxville on the train. There were blind people who I have researched, who would choose to go to jail and commit a crime a small crime usually to go to jail when it was cold, so that they didn't have to go to the poor farm because poor farms were actually more dangerous in many areas than actually going to jail. Those are the types of people that made decisions that they were hitting rock bottom, but then you've got a lot of these others where things around them were four things around them were difficult. The farmers were experiencing crop loss, drought flooding, or they didn't have the supplies. So there was a big flu epidemic or what have you. And they were in the same boat as the rest of the community. And they struggled to get out of that predicament just as much as the rest of the community, or at the same level. So it kind of depended on the mindset of the people the timing, whether or not they felt they hit rock bottom or not. If you got money from the city, you would have to petition to the city council or in some cases, the county, it was all in the public minutes, it was printed in the paper. And there would be a column about how much money was spent each month for individuals. And you would have so and so's name and then it would be blind on the other side, so and so's name and it would be old age, so and so's name and another reason for them to collect money. And you had to go back time and time again. Three months maybe would be all you would get at a time. And you would look at the disparaging, you would look at the the monies that people were getting. And it would be kind of interesting, if a man who was a soldier in the Civil War, or the First World War would probably get more money, then a blind soldier would probably get a little more money, then the blind widow raising four kids. Why? I don't know. I don't know the thinking at the time. But once those things were put in the paper, your family was maybe shun that church, somebody would say when you went into this store, Oh, I see you're not supporting your blind kid or your blind mother. Shame on you. So people chose to do anything rather than shame their family, or they would move away from their family to another community. And not have a lot to do with their family so that their family wouldn't be embarrassed, but also so that they could get money from a county to find a small place to live.   Michael Hingson  17:27 What I'm curious just to change the subject a little bit, what did you do for your day job before you retired?   Peggy Chong  17:35 Well, I've kind of done it all. I wanted to be a librarian. And I worked after high school as a librarian before I was going to go to college. But then I got married and had a kid, you know, did the usual Mom Stuff it did daycare for a while, that kind of thing. When my daughter was in high school, I did customer service. And you'll learn a lot of patience when working customer service. But I and I've had several positions. Over the years I've worked for blind industries and services of Maryland. And the National Federation of the Blind in their job opportunities for the blind program for several years, ran the Newsline program for the blind, the national program for several years. But for me, one of the things that is been a consistency in my life has been my involvement in the blind community. And, you know, do all the membership type things, raise money, and so on. But one of the things that was an accomplishment that I feel proud of is I was part of a group of people that established blind, blind incorporated blindness learning in new dimensions in Minnesota, and helped with a lot of the the foundation grants, finding the locations, finding staff, finding staff when we didn't have any money to pay the staff, substituting for staff when we didn't have staff who could perform the necessary jobs we needed to do. You know, one of the things that we did in building blinding Incorporated was we drew on the experiences of so many blind people, not just the ones that were you know, getting ready to retire, but the ones from that when they were in their 80s, who would tell us about what it was like in the 20s what they had to do, and how to travel because their information that they gave us, inspired us with so many ideas at how to be innovative. They had a lot of well, we didn't have this so we improvise And because BLIND Incorporated had so little money, we need a lot of in prevent, improvising, and learned from their strategies and learn from their techniques and how they made a lot out of nothing. And it gave us a lot of techniques then also to pass on to other people we brought in those people was the student body built up, we brought in those people to give seminars, talk about what it was like, going through their struggles, losing their sight as adults in the 30s, in the 40s, when there was nothing, and hopefully, help them appreciate what they were doing at that time, not focus on how sad life was, how hard life was, but how they should be grateful this is all they have to go through and not having to learn new york point, and Braille and Moon type in order to read the books that they wanted, they only had to learn one alternative form of reading.   Michael Hingson  21:14 And we should probably explain that New York type, Moon type or New York point, Moon type, and so on are different forms of raised characters that into themselves have interesting origins. Although Braille is the the main technique that we use for reading,   Peggy Chong  21:33 there were different forms of Braille with the country. There was your basic ABC Braille, there was that and we called that grade one Braille, there was grade one and a half, which my mother used. And there was grade to Braille, which is what I learned, they have different short form words, different contractions. If you were reading grade one Braille, depending on where you lived, you had either a lot of access to grade one Braille, or you have little access to grade one Braille, what made the difference was where you were being taught that if you were taught at some of the schools for the blind, who had a lot of building, they had room for all the grade one Braille. The grade one and a half Braille did not take up as much space. And several printing houses did that some of the schools printed their own material, and they would do it grade one and a half. Then when there was this decision as to what would be the written language for the United States for the blind, decided that it would be that and it would be the American grade two Braille because there was English Braille, which I always found kind of fun to read, because it had different punctuation formats, and I get tied up in that New York point was something my mother had learned New York point. New York point was only two dots high, but four dots long. And had its own set of symbols were Braille is only three dots high, and two dots across. So it only has six dots, New York point had eight dots, Moon type, it always just looked to me like somebody dropped stuff on a page and then thermal form.   Michael Hingson  23:43 Yeah, Moon type is, I read once that moon type was kind of a hybrid form of printing characters created by someone who thought that these were different enough that they could be felt and read. But Moontide never caught on like Braille. And rightly so although I, I personally did get a couple of books and Moon type and had a little bit of fun learning to sort of read them but never could get to the point of reading quickly.   Peggy Chong  24:15 No, and that was the problem with the typist, you very few people ever got to read it quickly. And they thought that the Mon type would be a lot easier for older people to read, because the dots were too close together for especially people with arthritis and that kind of stuff as you get older. But it just not just really didn't catch on and raised character printing. That was early form of a reading method for the Blind in this country. used a lot in the east coast where this early schools for the blind started but Again, it took up a lot of space. And just was not fast to read. And so when people started adopting Braille that was being taught in Europe, that made a big difference in how fast people could read. Now I find it find fun and interesting to note that the Ohio School for the Blind was, I believe, the very first state sponsored School for the Blind, all the rest were private schools or private public schools or something, but it wasn't like we think of a State School for the Blind. Today, Ohio was was one of the first. And they taught several methods of reading. But what they spent a lot of time on was teaching the blind kids, young people to handwrite. And the reason they did that is because they told them, This is the business language of the United States. This is the business language of the sighted. And if you cannot compete in the sight of community, with the written word, you won't compete in business. This is how you're going to have to send out your bills. Now we're talking 1848 1850 1860, and so on. And they would spend, I saw one schedule where they actually spent two to three hours a day, working on handwriting, and many of the graduates from the 50s. And 60s in the 70s were really competent hand writers, they could write out many of their diaries, their Ledger's, their letters to their clients letters to their family, their friends, they corresponded with suppliers. And they did it all by hand with not with a secretary or interpreter, but by themselves. So then in the late 1870s, or so that they were going to spend more time on Braille and the alumni was all upset, because they said, Now wait a minute, these guys, they're not going to be able to compete, you take away the written language of the United States from them, they're not going to be able to compete equally with their sighted peers. And I thought, I found that very interesting to watch the changes that were going through different parts of the country. And of course, the invention of the typewriter, which is an intervention for blind people. People don't always realize that once the typewriter came into vogue, well, then teaching typing than it was, this is what you do to compete in the sight of community. As you learn to type, you learn to communicate with the sighted through a typewriter. And that took the place then of teaching handwriting, handwriting, several schools did teach handwriting, but Ohio was probably the most successful at it. Many of the others just kind of dabbled in it, they could learn to write a little bit. But not how to track the lines, how to make it look like a really well formatted printed letter. Just mostly for notes and things like that. The other schools focused on the handwriting. You   Michael Hingson  28:29 mentioned something really interesting. Tell me a little bit more about the typewriter being invented for blind people.   Peggy Chong  28:35 The New York Times article that I learned all this from it and checked it out, came out probably in the late 80s, early 90s. And talked about this Countess, who was blind and she had a lover, evidently the count wasn't as attentive as he should have been. And she wanted to communicate back and forth. With her lover, he would send her letters, and her ladies in waiting would read them. And then she would have one of her ladies in waiting, write the letters out and send them to him. Well, the ladies in waiting would, you know rat her out to the count. So they had to find other ways of communicating. And her lover put together this typewriter that resembles sort of what we use today and gave it to her as a gift. And she was then he taught her how to use it and she was then able to write to him privately so that they could sort of you know, keep in contact the letters from her. Her lover could have sort of their little secret messages in it then only she knew and so on. And so that's how that all got started. The New York School for the Blind in Batavia adopted it really early on and had several of their Students working for typewriter companies. In fact, some of the high school students during the summer would work for a typewriter company traveling around many states going to the state fairs and demonstrating this new typewriter for the blind. And of course, it caught on in business, which was really great. Meaning that typewriters were more accessible all over the place for everyone caught on everywhere. And so it fascinates me now. And I always have to remind people that a typewriter was an invention for blind people. When people tell me Oh, it's too difficult to learn to keyboard. I learned to type in kindergarten, that was what you had to do when you went to the to the site saving classes, you had to learn to type that was, if you didn't know about type by the end of first grade boy, that you know, you spent a lot of time during the summer with your teacher. Well, I   Michael Hingson  30:55 like to type at home. But then I also took a typing course, in summer school one year between seventh and eighth grade I think it was. And I remember being in a class with a number of people we all had typewriters, of course, to the to work on. And people complain because the keys weren't labeled, which is something that I hadn't even thought about. You know, it didn't bother me that the keys weren't labeled, but they were complaining and the teacher had to explain what yeah, they're not labeled, because you need to learn where they are. That's what touch typing is all about. It is amazing what we complain about sometimes.   Peggy Chong  31:38 It truly is. The keys on the typewriter. When I took typing in ninth grade, it was mandatory to take typing in ninth grade. They were not labeled. And boy, everybody was really upset about that. But by that time I I knew touch typing so. So that class was great for me,   Michael Hingson  31:58 and to cross people up a lot more. My father had a typewriter that he brought back from Germany in World War Two. He said it actually came from one of Hitler's offices. And he took it apart and packed it in boxes and send it home. And when he got home, he put it back together. What was interesting was it undetermined typewriter, the Z and the Y were reversed. Because Z was apparently a more common character. So that was a little bit hard to get used to once I learned to type and started using a regular typewriter remembering that on his typewriter, the Z and the Y were reversed. And it was a noisy clunker thing, but it sure worked well.   Peggy Chong  32:42 Make it really difficult writing a letter to somebody Mr. Saba rusty.   Michael Hingson  32:46 Yeah, exactly.   Peggy Chong  32:50 He was paged when I was at the airport the other day. But yeah, that's it. And they were very, you fingers were very strong, because those old typewriters should push hard down. Oh,   Michael Hingson  33:01 you did? You did. I remember Occasionally, when we had tests in school, I got a portable typewriter. My parents bought us one. And I would carry it to school so that I could type answers. The tests were in Braille one specifically, test I recall was in eighth grade, you had to take a test here in California on the Constitution before you could graduate. And so the test was in Braille, it was transcribed by Mrs. Hershberger, who was our resource teacher. But they couldn't have someone sitting next to me to have me dictate answers. Because we were in a classroom and there was no other space. Well, and of course, the logical thing was typed the answers. So I was in the classroom, and we the typewriter was pretty quiet, but I would type all of the answers and then turned it in. And it worked really well under the circumstances. It's amazing how resourceful we can be.   Peggy Chong  34:01 My typewriter in class had to sit on foam. And mine was not a portable, mine was wheeled in on this cart. And it sat on a piece of foam, which deaden the sound some. Yeah. But still, it was, you know, I'm doing the typing in the class while the rest of the kids are all writing in their handwriting. My handwriting was really bad.   Michael Hingson  34:29 Nine as well. But I but I tell everyone, when I sign a document, well, the bank always accepts our checks, although now we don't even do much with checks anymore. Well, I'm curious. How do you think attitudes toward blind people have changed throughout the years? I mean, you've obviously got a good perspective on what history was like for blind people. And you've talked about a number of people who have been able to accomplish that, but how have attitudes changed? aged either way,   Peggy Chong  35:02 you know it for blind women is changed dramatically in that blind women, the options for a blind woman if you didn't marry was taking care of somebody if you had enough skill. Otherwise you were sort of you know that great aunt who lived in the backroom. You were taught handiwork so that you could always do the mending be useful at home. Blind women did a lot of fancy work, mending, because they weren't straining their eyes. A blind woman could work a lot longer at doing the mending, because they didn't need the light. After that, your opportunities were as a woman to become a teacher at a school for the blind. And that was about it. Music Teacher maybe teach piano at home. You didn't go out, went blind women didn't use a cane. But then sighted women didn't go out if you were a sighted woman and you were out at after dark by yourself. Boy, you were gossiped about at church? That's for doggone Sure. So what was the need for teaching a blind woman to travel, she wasn't going to go out on her own anyway. And if she was, if there was another sighted woman who needed to go out will take the blind woman with you, she needs a little air anyway. And then you could go out and take care of business as well. So for blind women, the expectations have changed so much. Not just becoming a homemaker. Boy, if I can just marry this blind daughter, haha, that'd be crazy. But you could go to school, you didn't have to just finish a lot of the girls who went to school, you look at the school for the blinds rosters, and you'll see girls there for four or five, six years, then they're going home to help cook on the family farm or take care of the sewing raise the younger children. They didn't graduate at anywhere near the same rate as the blind men blind boys did. Then when they got to be more accepted as teachers and so on in the schools for the blind that some of them became public school teachers, especially in the frontier areas, where if you, you couldn't get a lot of people to get out go out there. Some of the blind women especially through from Iowa, the blind college graduate, they were called the college for the blind at that time, because you went through 12 years of schooling, and most people only went through eight. So you know, the they call the School for the Blind in Iowa, the college for the blind. So the graduates from there, offered to go to North Dakota and South Dakota, and teach in some of the public schools and because until it became more populated, more things have opened up. Now, a blind woman has the same expectations can have the same aspirations as a blind man going to school, whatever the career they choose, and so on. For the Blind guys. You know, again, it kind of depended on where you grew up. If you came from a farming poor family, where you were land rich, but you know, the bank account didn't have a lot of money. Everyone was expected to pull their weight and the families adapted and found a job for the blind person to do and they would do it well. Some of those blind people became excellent plow drivers with their horses. Fixed machinery, did the hauling in the gardens took care of the animals in the barns. Skills that would also trade in jobs that were in town or they could then hire out to a neighbor. The some communities didn't expect a lot from their blind, relative, they'd send them to the schools for the blind and hoping that they'd find them something to do out east Perkins for many, many years. Music was the big thing at Perkins. They will be a music teacher. They will be orchestra director. They'll work at a church as the music director. And many of them did find successful careers in that. If you were out in Montana, for example.   Peggy Chong  39:49 The blind kids that went to the Montana School for the Blind for the first 20 years. They helped literally build the school, the fences, the barns care for the animals raised the animals that would be Sunday's meal, the vegetables, the, the, that were canned for the winter meals and so on. They made the furniture, they made the mattresses. So they took those skills, went back home and turn them into businesses, one of the graduates of the Montana School for the Blind. His parents had passed away, he lived with a sister, who was a teacher, but not that much older than he was, she didn't know how to raise a blind kid send him to the Montana School for the Blind during the years where the school didn't even have any heat, where they lived in two rooms of the nice building that had been built for them, but there was no heat in the building. So during that time, he learned to chop the firewood, he built the fence rails. He learned how to repair and build furniture. So when he decided to be a piano tuner, he took some classes in piano tuning, which was not a big class yet in Montana. But what he did learn was how to do the carpentry work for repairing the pianos. And he did that very well in the rescue picked up, which is kind of the opposite for some of the schools for the blind, because they focused on the piano tuning itself and telling the kids who were taking the piano tuning or the young men, well, you know, it's really hard to do the carpentry work on it, you'll never get the staining, right. So don't even bother where he learned to do all of that at the Montana School for the Blind, and he ended up becoming the owner and manager of several movie theaters. And he would get these small movie theaters, and he would do all of the repair work and building up the stage. And he even learned electrical. And he would build up the movie theaters and go on and sell that one, buy another one and had a very, very, he had one of the nicest movie theaters in a medium sized town in Oregon, when he passed away.   Michael Hingson  42:04 Well, the the thing that really is fascinating is that you're talking about a significant number of relatively speaking blind people who were successful in one way or another. But if you were to really contrast societal attitudes about what it means to be blind, then and now what what would you say? would you contrast them? Do you think that they're significantly different today? Are they the same? Are they worse? You know, how have we really changed as a as a race toward blindness?   Peggy Chong  42:43 I think in many ways, we have stepped back as society from including others, we talk about inclusion a lot. And talk about being a part of an invite people who are different blind people, particularly we're talking about now, but not always really including them as participants. Where I think my opinion is that back in 1880 1890, if a blind person proved themselves, they were accepted and expected to carry the weight. And they were more a part of the community, because they were far more isolated from other blind people than they are today. That doesn't mean that all of the people were like that you still have the schools for the blind where you had the clusters. But today, the kids who grew up in the public school systems do not have the same support, family blind support family that the kids did back then I believe that there's more contact with blind people or that you have the opportunity for more contact with blind people today than you did 110 110 years ago, 100 years ago. So it's kind of, I think, not as easy as it was back then. Because there was a whole different mindset in the communities that everybody pulls their weight. And I use, for example, is the blind people that were in politics back then, that were serving on the city council's as mayors as county commissioners, school boards. You don't hear very much and I find very little about that today. But back then, well, for example, there was a gentleman in South Carolina, John Swearengen, who Born after the Civil War, but still, South Carolina was still in reconstruction. And there were public schools home taught so on, finally was sent to the school for the blind for a couple of years, wanted to go to college. The college didn't want him until his uncle said, Well, if you're not taking my nephew, then I'm not going to give you any more financial support. Since they were financially large contributors. The school gave him but says no, absolutely no accommodation for this kid. And that means even bothering other students to walk him to class. So he used a man's walking stick a cane, to go to and from classes. So he graduates he wants to teach, the only place he can teach is the School for the Blind. His friends from college encouraged him when the State Superintendent of Education position came up, that he should run. Nobody took him seriously. But he won. Now he couldn't teach in the state of South Carolina. But he oversaw all the public schools, including the colleges and the trade trade schools in South Carolina. And he did that for 20. Some years. But you see many of these people who wanted to make a difference in the community, a teacher from the School for the Blind in Iowa, he wanted sidewalks and a paved alley and ran for the City Council. And he got that for his area of the of the city, but also left a big imprint on the city because he got involved in bringing a new bank to the city and so on. You don't see that kind of involvement. And is that because things are far bigger now. And blind people just don't get into the the cog that runs the huge wheel, where the towns and communities far more oriented towards people because they were smaller back then? I think there's some of that to be looked at as well. But we have not had a blind congressman, in our country since 1940. We have not had a blind US Senator since the 1930s. Why is that? We have five blind Congressman's up until 1940. We had two blind US Senators before that. And yet we've had nothing since I look at how many blind men and women have served in state legislatures over the years.   Peggy Chong  47:40 And there was one point in time when we had well over 25 plus to 30 blind men and women serving in different states is different state legislatures. Now, there's probably enough we could count on one hand, and we don't have that kind of interaction with our our laws, our government bodies, anymore, that I think that makes a big difference as how we are seen, by our states, we are not part of fee process of creating new opportunities. We are part of the wanting our handout, I believe that we are looked at in many ways. More than we used to, even though we don't have the begging that we use to the blind beggars all over the place. We sort of become the population that go to the state to get on this for this project and friends for that project. So it's very different than it was I think it actually if you were a blind person who had gumption if you were a blind person who tried even though you would failed more than once and kept trying, I think you had the ability for more opportunities. And I say that also because in 1910, the US census was taken that year, and one of the focuses was to find out exactly how many blind people there were in the United States and what they were doing, because there was talk of creating pensions for the blind. And what would that cost the country? What would that cost the states if we were to do something like that? So if a surveyor was out, taking down all the information, and found a blind person, they got a little extra in their pay envelope. So the incentive was there to find the people, even if they didn't self identify as a blind person, but to find those people and say yes, this person is blind enough where they don't do things the same way as other people. In that step senses, more than 60% of the blind people found, were self supporting. That meant that they weren't on any kind of charity, they weren't being supported by a family member. They weren't be supported by a county or a city. They weren't in a industrial home for blind people. And what most of them were doing was farm labor. There were not as many piano tuners as a lot of people think they were farming was the biggest occupation. And now we have a close to 70% unemployment rate for blind people. And many of those people are on some kind of public assistance. And that's just another indication that people were given an opportunity to do what they could do, and paid for it. Now, they didn't have the same living conditions that we like to think about today, some of these people, especially the farm laborers, were living in the hayloft, or in an outbuilding on a farm, they might be living in the city running a broom shop out of somebody's garage and living in that broom shop. Met in Minnesota, several of them had their own music stores, and they lived in the backroom of their music store that was their home and their business. So not the same living conditions, but they were self supporting. So I look at that. And I have to wonder if you were out there wanting to find a job if you were really trying, not in every community, but in many communities, were you given a chance to do that. And I think that we were given a chance back then, more often than not given a chance. Now people are worried about being sued. If they say the wrong thing, or if the person gets hurt, are they going to get an insurance claim that they don't want, there wasn't any of that back then. And maybe we had better chances if you were willing to get out there and, you know, work twice as hard to get half as far in many cases. But if you were willing to do that, you had an opportunity to get up there to get a job working in the back of someone's store, delivering goods for a business, working as a furniture mover.   Peggy Chong  52:42 Whatever it was a women another story again, because times had not changed for women. But for men, they had a lot more opportunities and were self supporting, not needing to go to the church for funding that meeting to go to the county.   Michael Hingson  52:59 It's interesting, though, that through all of that, today, we think of blind people may be tuning pianos and so on. But still, more often than not. We think of blind people begging back in the day, as it were. And we don't hear a lot about all of the other kinds of things that blind people did. We we are molding, if you will, and attitude about blindness, which although there was begging certainly. And not only blind people begged but But still, there was a lot of begging, but we're molding and trying to pit blind people into a pigeon hole that isn't necessarily totally accurate.   Peggy Chong  53:49 One of the things that is difficult and tracking some of the blind people is that if they didn't self identify as blind, and many did not. How do you know I mean, I have found relatives of the blind ancestors that I'm researching who had no idea that their relative was blind did made me prove it to them, that their relative was blind. And they were doing jobs like newspaper editors that they worked on the railroads. How can How could have Uncle John been blind if he had 1000 acres of land? And it's because they if they couldn't believe that a blind person could do it, they just talked about him as a person. Yeah. The articles in the newspapers if the blind person is doing something that is newsworthy. But if you bring in the blindness, it doesn't sound like you're really writing about the person. They didn't bring in the blindness and some papers did have a policy not to talk about a person's what we would call today a disability, but they would call it many other other things. And so it would be hard to track some of them that way, especially when you've got somebody who's got a common link name. You know, for example, I took genealogy classes on how to determine whether the Johann Schmidt, and I've got a few of them in my family is the Johann Schmidt you're looking for, and it was kind of fun to learn how to do that, and how to track and find the right person. And make sure you got all the right kids names, or who did that if we lived next door to them, when you knew they that that was your relative of the person you were targeting. So when I start to look at these blind people and look at who they lived with, who their neighbors were, did they follow them along what was their kids names, so that you can track them back when they are not identified as a blind person, especially when they went blind later in life, because people tried to hide that. They didn't want people to know they were having difficulty. They didn't want to burden others with their problems. They just kept on working. They just kept on running the farm. They just kept on delivering the milk, they just kept on doing what needed to be done.   Michael Hingson  56:33 I'm curious. So as a person who has grown up blind and also very active in the National Federation of the Blind, which is you and I know is the largest organization of blind people in the United States, and it's a very active social action organization. The Federation was started by Dr. Jacobus, Tim Brooke. But Dr. Temper Ik had his beginnings at the California School for the Blind. Tell me about Newell Perry. And if you know much about Dr. Perry, who was a mathematician who was blind, and who taught at the school and taught Dr. timbre.   Peggy Chong  57:13 Neil Perry is a really fascinating guy, because he taught at the school for the blind, because he felt it was important to teach blind, blind kids, he could have taught other places. Especially he could have taught mathematics as a professor. It would have been hard for him not because of the teaching aspect, but because of be getting into the schools and being accepted as a blind mathematician. But one of the things he did for a lot of kids and we're talking, you know, back in the 1920s. Kids came to the Colorado School of the Colorado I'm sorry, the California School for the Blind from a lot of different states. And dual Perry taught them how to think he taught them how to do math in their heads. He taught them how to think out of the box. And what he did was he were he there was a group of young men in California known as his Paris boys. But he taught a lot of people that went on to other states, for example, a young man went back to Hawaii in he there was no School for the Blind in Hawaii when his parents who were missionaries had this blind child and wanted an education for their blind child. So they sent him California, he came back and went to the University of Hawaii there and that young man didn't quite always get what Perry was trying to teach him. His became a little hard nosed for a while, but he went back to California and did understand later on about I you know, you've got to, you got to get out there. You've got to keep moving. Neil Perry, used a cane. Some of the earlier people who used a cane before what we consider the birth of the white cane in this country. And October is white cane awareness month, April, October 15 was white cane Awareness Day. And but no Perry taught the kids to move, get out there to run to play to climb the trees to play on the play equipment to play ball to run basis and taught them to move. And because sometimes, the young man I'm talking about in a why because Perry didn't always do that on the school grounds. It was his home. Perry lived there, taught there, went to school there. He considered at home and didn't always carry his cane but He did when He went out and his students followed his his example because he was there example. Yes, he was teaching at the school for the blind, but they knew he could do other things. And he was out in the community, advocating for other people to get the college. He was advocating for his students to get into colleges across Colorado, California, and other states, but primarily California. And he did it by example. So that the universities saw, hey, this guy, yeah, he could probably be a professor here. Yeah, well let it one of his his students and so on. He was, by example, the teacher who encouraged self confidence, who encouraged a philosophy of getting out there and trying exerting yourself taking chances falling down. The kids on the playground, when they were at the school for the blind, they fell down, they got hurt, they bumped stuff. And they learned to avoid it. They learned how to listen, they learned how to judge distance by their hearing. They learned many, many skills by playing those games, that unfortunately, that young man from Hawaii took a long time to learn. But that kind of a teacher doesn't just teach you how to do your math, how to think in your head, how to solve problems, for financial, for constructing a cabinet or carpentry, but how to think out of the box for your life. His students became travelling insurance men, they became state senators, they became attorneys, they became teachers, they became bike repairman, they became electricians. Later on, they became musicians. And not just playing in the clubs, although some of them did a really good job of doing that. But they, they became radio musicians who made records who had a following who, because of their music, were able to buy nice houses and send their kids to college. And some of his students became novelists. They didn't just go home and sit, they didn't just take a job at the sheltered shop, they didn't just become a piano tuner, although some of them who did that were very successful. But they did their job, and were a part of their community. And so that I think, when Jacobus 10, Brooke found founded the Federation, that was a spirit that he brought with, he brought that spirit that we need to be a part of the community. And the white cane law, one of the first things it says is that it encourages blind people. The model white cane law that he established with others in 1966 says that blind people are encouraged to be an active part in the community. And I think that is a real major part of the philosophy of the National Federation of the Blind, is that we need to be out in the community we need to be doing for others, because when we're doing for others we're doing for ourselves, we are feeling better about ourselves, we gain more confidence, more assured. And when you are more assured, you look more assured, you look like somebody that should be respected, that should be listened to not just somebody that should be cared for. And that was the philosophy of the Federation in 1940, is that we don't want a handout we want a hand up.   Michael Hingson  1:03:49 It's always interesting. It's interesting that regular listeners of this podcast, know something about Dr. Tim Brooke because one of our episodes was based on and we just played Dr. Tim Brooks 1956 banquet speech within the grace of God, which has always been one of my favorite speeches. And to learn a little bit more about him and to see where he came from, because he went through his own challenges at UC Berkeley, although he got a bachelor's degree, they would let him go on into dealing with the law, which is what his interest was. And he had to get around that.   Peggy Chong  1:04:34 At Berkeley was a big hub for many blind students from the 20s on up that attracted blind students and and Newell Perry had a lot to do with that. Yeah. And Berkeley was far more open to blind students than any other college in California at the time.   Michael Hingson  1:04:56 Oh, yes, and NSA It's just so sad in so many ways that attitudes and ideas about blindness haven't progressed and in some ways have really slipped. Two more questions, and then we'll have to wrap up, we've captured you enough for today. But I'd love to do this again and, and continue. But what's the most interesting person in your mind that you know about from from a historical standpoint, from the standpoint of a person who is blind? What's the most fascinating story that you tell?   Peggy Chong  1:05:38 Wow, you know, a lot of times that just depends on the person I'm researching. Because I, I find, I can go through a lot of names. And you have, we have left in many ways, a very small footprint, as blind people. And in many ways, we've left some really big shoes to fill. And I'll go through, you know, 150 200 names before I'll find somebody I can write a short story on. But like I said, Thomas, David Shaw, he was my first blind ancestor, if you will. And I do find him very fascinating because he reinvented himself all the time, and researching him. different branches of his family, know very different stories that don't always fit.   Michael Hingson  1:06:39 Isn't that interesting,   Peggy Chong  1:06:41 and I just loved him because he was a man who he got married, he had this law firm. Some people would probably call him an ambulance chaser. It was amazing how he had a lot of the same witnesses that witnessed a lot of this different accidents that happened around the city of Minneapolis. He made a lot of money as the sighted guy. And then when he went blind, they spent almost all of their money had to move into a small apartment. So when he was stony broke, that's when he decided to get into politics. And he didn't get into the blindness stuff until he had been there about 678 years when he got a police dog, before runner of the police dogs that were trained for seeing I. But he got one of the first police dogs that was trained for the First World War veterans that was brought over by a friend. And Lux was his name. Lux had quite a following. He did dog commercials and all kinds of stuff. But Lux couldn't ride in the train car, and he was going back and forth to DC on the train all the time. And Lux couldn't go with him unless he went into the baggage car. And so he tried to get an exemption for locks. But he thought, you know, I can't be the only blind guy who's got a problem with this dog guides were not what we think of as dog guides today. But blind people did travel with dogs, that they had trained themselves. As a blind man, he found that every place he went, he had to sort of educate people and didn't understand why some people just have no concept about needing a reader getting around, he got a page to help him then he gets involved with the blind folks. And he sees no reason why there shouldn't be a National Rehabilitation Program for the blind, that there should be a program for all blind people not just the blind in war veterans, because we had a program for several years after the First World War in Maryland. Evergreen, it was called that did a really great job and it was about a two year program that after about six years that program went away pretty much and that was the the floorplan that they were using for this new rehabilitation program. Now he found a lot of blind guys that were really interested in and this was some of the letters I was reading back many years ago and then when I went Who is this blind guy but he found that the agencies for the blind and the American Foundation for the Blind so well you know, gee Mr. shawls really nice guy but He just doesn't understand blindness. Now, you didn't tell that to Thomas shawls face, by the way, because he told you what, four. And you walked away going? I'm sorry, sir. Yes, sir. But they worked around him. And I found that really rather sad that they kind of said, well, you know, he just doesn't have the education and blindness that we do. We have these studies, and not all blind people can be trained. And so let's, let's look at it from a different perspective, and delayed, in many ways, 10 years legislation for blind people. But Shaw also decided, you know, if you guys are blind guys are going to fight all the time, I've got better fish to fry. And so after a couple of years, he moved on, and really didn't pay much more than lip service to blind people. After that point. He was nominated for an award, back in the 30s, of which I still am hoping to get the information for, but he didn't get it. And the reason according to one, what one letter that I found, is that, well, the American Foundation for the Blind respects Mr. shawls opinions and all but it really wasn't appropriate at that time, and probably killed off him receiving this national award in 1933.   Peggy Chong  1:11:35 But he still, even though he didn't give a lot of lip service to the legislation, he still was out there fighting for what he truly believed. And, you know, when he believes something in his heart, he went whole hog at it. He didn't like the New Deal. But he was very supportive some of Roosevelt's other programs, and he would fight vehemently against the New Deal. And then he'd be right out there, supporting the president of the opposite party. On the other platforms that he did agree with them on, he did a lot of public speaking, a lot of traveling. And he believed that the best way for him to be a good servant to the state of Minnesota, was to get out there and meet everybody. And he did that. And so he's traveling all over rural Minnesota, sometimes he would have his boys in the Summer Go with him. And talking about politics, not about blindness. But about what was important to people, what was the problems they had on the farm, what was the problem they were having in small towns, and he would do these videos, like he loved to shoot. And he still continued to do that, after he lost his sight. And what they did is they set up in the backyard of his house, this big Gong, and his sons would take this big stick with the, you know, pat it in and hit the gong. And his dad would shoot up the gown, the the boys would get the gong, and they would shoot up the gong. And he hit that gong, right the center many times. I was watching that with someone who said those boys afraid that, you know, the dads are gonna shoot him as well, you know, William Tell son survive and heal and nap on his head. So, but he showed himself as a part of the farmers as a part of those small town guys who were going hunting he showed them, he does the same things. He understands them at their level. And I admired that, that he could be that kind of a person, I'm not sure he would have been a lawyer I would have wanted from, you know, my attorney. But on the other hand, I admired him for being someone who recognized what was going on with people. And he took the chance who stood up and said, This is what I believe. This is what I'm going to fight for. And he was the one that stood at the front of the line, not the one that was back in the office. But if there was frontline issues. He was out there at the demonstrations. He was out there at the rallies. He was out there to be seen as a supporter.   Michael Hingson  1:14:29 You know, we call this the unstoppable mindset because that's what it is. People can be unstoppable. If they truly emotionally adopt a mindset that says we can do what we choose, we can do what we what we feel in our heart is the right thing to do. And talking about Mr. Shaw, you're certainly demonstrating that   Peggy Chong  1:14:58 some of these people want I read some of the articles where they're interviewed. And the interviewer will say, Well, what made you think that a blind person could ride a bicycle to their piano tuning job? So what made you think that a blind person could build furnitures and open them music store? And many times they say, well, nobody told me I couldn't.   Michael Hingson  1:15:22 Yeah, exactly right. And that's something that I've experienced, and I'm sure you've experienced Why, what makes you think you could do that? Well, why not? Last question for today. And like I said, I would love to continue this in the future. But as, as we live in our world today, what's the thing that you're most concerned about, or most afraid of?   Peggy Chong  1:15:51 The education of the literacy of people who are blind is really very disturbing. And the technology that is separating us from the sighted world, you know, I see these young kids, smart kids. And they are only being taught how to use a, an expensive Braille display, not a computer. They're taught how to use expensive equipment for the blind, that the schools purchase, which they don't have access to in the summer. And they do really great on them. But they can't write or format, a decent Word file, to send out a letter of inquiry for a job, or to volunteer at a summer camp as a teenager. Many of them are really far behind. They're graduating from college, and they can't write a resume. It's to me, that is something that blind people fought very hard for is the ability to get a decent education, to read and write. And we have made it's I think, in some ways, so specialized, that we forgotten that the point is to teach people to be literate, and that we aren't expecting literacy from our young people. They don't have their hands on a book. There's an I think that sighted people will agree with this, too, is that there's something about reading a holding the book in your hand. Yep, it's great to read stuff on the computer. And people really love their necks and everything. But every once in a while, you just want to hold that book in your hand, there's something different about that. But these kids don't have that they don't, they don't have an opportunity to read a braille book that much. And many of them don't even get to   Michael Hingson  1:18:05 learn to read Braille.   Peggy Chong  1:18:07 No. And that com

Research into nearly 200,000 Montana death records from the last two decades has put hard numbers to anecdotes about suicides and drug- and alcohol-related deaths during the pandemic. The report, by University of Montana School of Journalism Professor Lee Banville, is published on the American Communities Project’s website and shows that death rates significantly increased in 2020 in communities categorized as "Graying America," "Native American Lands" and "Working Class Country."

Chief Executive Officer, Boone And Crockett Club www.boone-crockett.orgTony was born and raised in Butte, Montana. After graduating high school, he attended two years of college at the Montana School of Mines and then in 1982 moved to the University of Montana. In his senior year he started a film production company, Stoney-Wolf Productions. Stoney-Wolf rapidly expanded and became known for outdoor productions for home entertainment and commercial theatres. The company was also often hired to film under severe and dangerous conditions. After selling the company in 1997, Tony chose a second career in the NGO world of conservation, working first for the Rocky Mountain Elk Foundation as their Vice President of Marketing and Communications, then for Wonders of Wildlife as their executive director, and finally for the Boone and Crockett Club as their Chief Executive Officer, a position he currently serves. Tony married his wife Jennifer in 2004 and is the proud father of two girls. He hunts and fishes as much as time allows and includes his family whenever possible. All enjoy the great outdoors and share the same passion for wildlife and wild places. Tony is a National Conservation Leadership Institute Fellow from Cohort 3. He regularly uses this adaptive challenge training as a part of his job and as a volunteer Board member. Tony currently serves on four boards: Wonders of Wildlife, National Museum of Forest Service History, and the Boy Scouts of America, Montana Council, and the Council to Advance Hunting and Shooting Sports. Besides raising his family, Tony’s passion is to continue to play a role in the conservation and conservation education movement and apply his knowledge and experience to help ensure a wildlife legacy for future generations.

As a clinical hypnotherapist, founder & director of Montana School of Hypnotherapy and certified Family Systems Practitioner, Rebecca's passion and purpose is to help others access the wisdom within themselves. During this episode we go deep into healing legacy burdens, the somatic experience and healing that is possible through hypnotherapy and IFS work. Tisha shares her personal somatic experience during session and dives in deep with Rebecca to share it with you.  "As someone is able to release the burdens that they may carry, they are able to open themselves to experience more compassion, calm, clarity, courage, caring, connectedness, confidence, and curiosity. These are just a few of the gifts one can experience as they strengthen their connection to the ever flowing source from within." You can find Rebecca at: Rebeccalellek@gmail.com 406-396-5552 https://www.instagram.com/montana_school_of_hypnotherapy/ https://www.rebeccalellek.com/ Please let us know you want to hear more by rating and reviewing our podcast. 

In this new episode, the Tribal Research Specialist (TRS) team discuss some important details related to journalism in Indian country. The episode starts with an old Salish Owl Dance Song from an unidentified reel in the Alan Merriam collection. The search for the singers and origin of the song are an important component. As with many aspects of Tribal histories, much has been undocumented or remains unidentified. The quest for knowledge of these tracks leads us into discussing the main tenets and role of Native Journalism.To assist in this discussion, the TRS invites Luella Brien (Apsáalooke), the General Manager of the Big Horn County News. Luella is a graduate of The University of Montana School of Journalism with experience in graduate schools at Montana State University. Luella has a wealth of experience in journalism, including positions on the staff of The Billings Gazette, The Ravalli Republic, as an internships at papers in Seattle, Great Falls and Missoula. She has also previously worked as a communications instructor at Little Big Horn College and a consultant for the Crow Tribe media department. She rounds off her expertise also working as a community outreach coordinator at the St. Labre Indian School.The discussion focuses on identifying elements within Native journalism that set it apart from mainstream media sources. From the commentary, there is a debate as to whether journalism as a profession must dominate Native journalistic style or if the culture and life of Natives has a greater influence to shape and add a unique spin to news in Indian Country. The second half of the episode starts with a discussion on the role of Tribal Governments providing oversight and therefor censorship of Native journalism. The discussion examines this quandary from a journalistic endeavor, where freedom of press and expression should be paramount. In addition to this, the question is explored if elements of Tribal storytelling sneak their way into European model of journalism when written and distributed through Native Journalists. Join the discussion and  let us know your thoughts.Visit and read works by the Big Horn County Newshttps://www.bighorncountynews.comGuest: Luella Brien (Apsáalooke)Hosts: Aaron Brien (Apsáalooke), Shandin Pete (Salish/Diné)PodCast Website: tribalresearchspecialist.buzzsprout.comApple Podcast: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/tribal-research-specialist-the-podcast/id1512551396Spotify: open.spotify.com/show/1H5Y1pWYI8N6SYZAaawwxbTwitter: @tribalresearchspecialistFacebook: www.facebook.com/TribalResearchSpecialistYouTube: www.youtube.com/channel/UCL9HR4B2ubGK_aaQKEt179QWebsite: www.tribalresearchspecialist.comSupport the show (https://www.patreon.com/TribalResearchSpecialist)

Aaron Freiwald, Managing Partner of Freiwald Law and host of the weekly podcast, Good Law | Bad Law, is joined by attorneys Michael McKeon, of McKeon Law, and Mark Kovacich, of Odegaard Kovacich & Snipes, to discuss the topics of wrongful prolongation of life, DNRs, self-determination, and a case in which Mr. McKeon and Mr. Kovacich represented a man whose end-of-life instructions – known as an advanced directive – were ignored. What is the impact of this case? What are the legal and ethical questions? And why is end-of-life planning critical?   Today, Aaron, Mark, and Michael discuss end-of-life decisions, as well as what can happen when an individual’s rights are ignored. Michael and Mark talk about their success in a Montana court after their client, Rodney Knoepfle’s wishes were disregarded and he was resuscitated after he coded while in the hospital.  Michael, Mark, and Aaron talk about Mr. Knoepfle’s traumatic experiences, why this case matters, and the importance of communication regarding end-of-life decisions, such as DNR orders. Today’s conversation delves into the notions of advanced directives, DNR (Do Not Resuscitate) orders, patient’s rights, medical mistakes and negligence, moral and ethical concerns, and the P.O.L.S.T (physician orders and life sustaining treatments) database system.   A graduate of Villanova and the University of Montana School of Law, Michael has focused his practice on representing those who have been injured due to the negligence of others. Throughout his career, Mr. McKeon has pursued claims involving workplace accidents, personal injuries, insurance claims, products liability and medical malpractice. Michael has been selected by the National Trial Lawyers Association as a Top 40 Under 40 Trial Lawyer and as a Top 100 Trial Lawyer by the National Trial Lawyers Association. He is admitted to the Montana and U.S. District Courts of Montana and is a member of the State Bar of Montana.   Mark, a principal at Odegaard Kovacich & Snipes, joined the firm in 2000 and has focused his practice on representing plaintiffs in cases involving asbestos and environmental claims, environmental litigation, serious personal injury, products liability, workers’ compensation and safe workplace litigation. Mark was named Trial Lawyer of the Year by the Montana Trial Lawyers Association in 2005 and 2019 and received the association’s Appellate Advocacy Award in both 2008 and 2016. Mr. Kovacich has successfully represented hundreds of plaintiffs in high profile cases and has been consistently recognized as a Rising Star by Mountain States Super Lawyers.   Listen in now!   To learn more about Mr. McKeon and the McKeon Law firm, please click here. To learn more about Mr. Kovacich and his firm, Odegaard Kovacich & Snipes, please click here. To read the Physician’s Weekly piece, “Jury Awards $400,000 in ‘Wrongful Prolongation of Life’ Lawsuit,” please click here. To read the Boston Globe article, “Hospital staff revived a man’s stopped heart — and he sued,” please click here.   Host: Aaron Freiwald Guests: Michael McKeon and Mark Kovacich       Follow Good Law | Bad Law: YouTube: Good Law | Bad Law Facebook: @GOODLAWBADLAW Instagram: @GoodLawBadLaw Website: https://www.law-podcast.com

Join Rebecca and I as we explore healing through Hypnotherapy and Internal Family Systems. Rebecca Lellek is a Clinical Hypnotherapist and the founder and director of Montana School of Hypnotherapy. Along with her certification through the American Council of Hypnotist Examiners she has also been certified as an Internal Family Systems Practitioner. Her passion and purpose is to help others access the wisdom within themselves. 

This week on IAQ Radio+ we welcome Tony Ward, PhD for a wide ranging discussion on fires, IAQ, air cleaners and public health. Dr. Ward is a Professor and Chair of the School of Public and Community Health Sciences at the University of Montana. Originally from Houston, Texas, he moved to Missoula in 1997 to attend graduate school at the University of Montana In addition to teaching environmental health classes, his research involves working with schools and rural communities and schools throughout Montana, Idaho, Alaska, and Arizona on air pollution (forest fires and wood stoves) and respiratory / cardiovascular health issues. On a personal note, he has two teenage daughters and enjoys the outdoor activities that Montana has to offer (skiing, backpacking, trail running, and fly-fishing).   Research in his laboratory focuses on investigating indoor and ambient inhalational exposures (including emissions from wood stoves and smoke from forest fires) common to residents of rural and underserved areas of the northern Rockies and Alaska. The research group also has delivered the Research Education on Air and Cardiovascular Health (REACH) Program, an outreach / education program, to rural schools throughout Montana, Idaho and Alaska since 2003.     Learn More this week on IAQradio+

The candidates for Montana's lone seat in the U.S. House met in their first debate hosted by MontanaPBS. Some fact checking in the debate was done by students and professors at the University of Montana School of Journalism. Associate Professor Lee Banville helped lead that effort and joins us now to walk through some of the highlights.

The candidates for Montana's lone seat in the U.S. House met in their first debate hosted by MontanaPBS. Some fact checking in the debate was done by students and professors at the University of Montana School of Journalism. Associate Professor Lee Banville helped lead that effort and joins us now to walk through some of the highlights.

Podcast co-hosts Bree Buchanan and Chris Newbold, who also serve as co-chairs of the National Task Force on Lawyer Well-Being, introduce themselves, provide perspective on how the lawyer well-being movement began, how and why the issue has sparked a national conversation, why a culture shift in the profession is needed and share their individual stories of what brought them into the lawyer well-being movement.     Transcript:  CHRIS NEWBOLD:                Welcome to the Path to Lawyer Well-Being, a podcast about cool people doing awesome work in the space of lawyer well-being. This podcast is presented by the National Task Force on Lawyer Well-Being. I'm Chris Newbold, and I'm joining you from Missoula, Montana, and I'm excited to be joined by my co-host Bree Buchanan.BREE BUCHANAN:               Hi, everybody. I'm Bree, and I'm joining you from Eugene, Oregon. Chris and I are both co-chairs of the National Task Force on Lawyer Well-Being. So, a little bit just about what that group is, we're a group of lawyers representing different parts of the bar when each of us are a leader within that group. What binds us together is a passion for improving the lives of lawyers. We all hold a belief that to achieve that goal, there has to be a systemic change within our profession, so that well-being of its members is a top priority.CHRIS:             This is our inaugural podcast, and I think this is the right time to do a few things, I think, in our first podcast, which is to introduce a little bit about the well-being movement. To introduce you to the National Task Force on Lawyer Well-Being, and most importantly, probably to introduce you to us. Why we find a personal passion in lawyer well-being, what our hopes and aspirations are as we think about the vision of this podcast series. Because there's incredible work going on around the country right now in this space of lawyer well-being launched several years ago with a legendary report that I think ignited a national discussion on this particular issue.This is, I think, just a really exciting time for us in the movement, as we have grown really a large contingent of folks who are really fundamentally hoping to see some systemic changes in our profession for the betterment, as we think about lawyer health and well-being. So, we're going to have some fun today, I think, in our first podcast, Bree.BREE:               Absolutely.CHRIS:             Let's talk about the notion of a theme around beginnings.BREE:               Sure, and I thought it would be really great today, yeah talking about beginning of this podcast, talking about the beginnings of the national task force. How did it come about? Why did we do this? How was it envisioned, and what is it that we're trying to do? Then, also I thought it would be, this is the perfect time to talk about, Chris, you and I, our beginnings in this movement. What drew us to this? There's a real passion on the part of everybody that's working in this movement. So, what got us to this point, and I think it's a pretty interesting story.CHRIS:              It is.BREE:               So, I look forward to sharing it. Yeah.CHRIS:             It's been I think a really unique journey and, again, I think something that we continue to be very optimistic about where this movement is moving and the type of change that I think that we can engineer as we grow an army of well-being advocates around the country. So, Bree, let's start. I'd love to go back to the namesake of this podcast, is the Path To Lawyer Well-Being, and that name, I think, resonates with you as someone who's really a co-founder of our movement, and the report that got started by a coalition of organizations that began to really take an interesting look at this particular issue. Can you take us back to those early days of well-being?BREE:        Sure.CHRIS:            How did it come together and what have been some of the crowning achievements as we think about it?BREE:             Sure, in some ways it's a bit of an improbable story. It sounds like sort of an official group, and it really started back in 2016. There were a group of us who were each in our own right leaders of a national organization that worked in the space of lawyer impairment, lawyer well-being. We basically commandeered an empty conference room, the ABA annual meeting in San Francisco in 2016. We don't get to see each other very often and said, "Let's sit down and talk about the fact that we now have these two really significant large studies about the rates of impairment and the state of affairs of lawyer and law student's well-being in the country."We haven't had that before. I come to this movement out of the lawyers assistance program world. I was an incoming chair of the ABA Commission on Lawyer Assistance Programs. I had known, just from the work that I did and the calls that I answered every day at the L-A-P, the LAP, that there was a real problem. That the profession was experiencing with depression, and substance abuse, and alcohol use disorder, et cetera. We had a couple of folks from the National Organization of Bar Counsel, the people who regulate the profession, and a couple of folks from the Association of Professional Responsibility Lawyers.The lawyers who often end up defending lawyers who were in the disciplinary system, and really work around in the space of ethics and professional responsibility. So, the small group of us sat down in that room, and I don't know what was in the water or the air that day, but we decided that given that we finally had the data, the hard data, to prove what we had known all along, we felt that there was a window of opportunity for us to move with that information. On that day, we decided that we were going to gulp, create a movement to bring about systemic change within the legal profession, in regards to how the health and well-being of its members are ... basically, how that's prioritized, because we had seen too much suffering.Some of us had suffering in our own lives. I had witnessed too many lawyer suicides, and we really were so motivated to do something and do something quickly. So, we had that charge moving forward. We left that room. We brought together a coalition of national organizations, and we had some pretty, ultimately, ended up with some pretty prestigious groups, such as the Conference of Chief Justices. The National Association of Bar Executives is coming on board, et cetera. We decided that we needed to do a report to the profession and say, "We now have this information.We know that there are real issues within our profession, and we need to do something about it." Hear the best minds that we could bring together who work and think about these issues every day. These are our recommendations to the profession. Chris, you were part of that. Talk a little bit about your role in all of that.CHRIS:             Yeah. I come from the side of Lawyers Professional Liability insurance, right? So, we have a vested interest in seeing lawyers practice with the duty of competence. I think one of the things that we saw as a recurring theme in some of our claims activity is the notion that impairment oftentimes is a precursor to a malpractice claim. So, based upon a really simple premise that I think that the report kind of signaled, which is to be a good lawyer, one has to be a healthy lawyer. So, that was for Alps, the company that I worked for, which is the largest direct writer of lawyers malpractice insurance in the country, and other malpractice insurance carriers.It was that kind of a natural fit that we want to see lawyers thrive. We want to see them be just wonderful advocates on behalf of their clients. Too often, when lawyers are finding themselves in tough situations, they were reverting to things that would generally take them into a downward trajectory and open themself up to a malpractice claim. So, what I think is really cool, Bree, about the way that this movement got started, it's just the diversity of the groups were at the table. You're talking about a real sense of a grassroots. So, you got chief justices, you got disciplinary council. You got, obviously, the incredible work that our lawyer assistance programs do around the country.You got the association of professional responsibility lawyers, various entities that have associations with the American bar association, what an interesting kind of group to come together. I don't really know of many other kind of legal issues that have started from such a grassroots perspective. Let's reset the timeline a little bit. This happened in August of 2016. So, we're about four years now away from this getting started, and really I'd love for you to walk us through one year later after that. We were on the cusp of releasing the report that got everything going.That's a pretty short period of time-BREE:              Yeah, it is.CHRIS:               ... to mobilize that group to publish, produce, research what ultimately came to be known as the path to lawyer well-being.Bree Buchanan:               It really is amazing in a little touch of a miracle that it all came together. You have these disparate backgrounds, and we really did everything by consensus. You've probably heard me talk about this before Chris, but I felt like it was birthing a child. It took nine months to write the report. It was a tremendous amount of work. All of us had not only our day jobs, but we're also leaders of national organization. So, we crammed all of this work in between the little pieces of open time that there might be. Really, everything that we decided ultimately, just about, was by consensus.                         Everyone was amazingly on the same page. We broke up into to writing groups based upon the stakeholder group that we were involved in. It was just really quite miraculous. The editor in chief for the report is Anne Bradford. I'm excited to announce that she's going to be our first guest on this podcast. She was the editor-in-chief and just did an amazing job. Also, the founder of the Lawyer Well-Being Week, which we just launched this past spring. So, it was pretty incredible process. We finished the report and published it in early summer of 2017. We immediately took it to the Conference of Chief Justices and asked if they would endorse it.Effectively, they passed a resolution encouraging all members of the profession to read and take heed of the report. Then, within days of that, we were able to leverage that support and take it to the ABA. We're back there at the next annual meeting, August the 27th, and there was a resolution introduced and passed by the house of delegates supporting the report. So, so much happened so quickly. It was just, in some way, it's one of those things where it felt like it was kind of meant to be.CHRIS:               Yeah, and for our listeners out there, if you haven't had a chance to see the report, the report can be found at lawyerwellbeing.net, where you can download the report. One of the things, I work a lot in the bar association world, and it was really exciting to see just how fast that we've struck a chord, I think, with folks who really want to see the lawyers, again, thrive in being successful in law practice. I know we'll get to our personal stories and I'll talk a little bit about why I got involved in the movement. But I think that it was exciting to see the report itself, which we flirted with actually naming this podcast 44 recommendations, right?Because it was a fairly comprehensive report that outlined for various stakeholders pathways to being part of the solution when it comes to lawyer well-being. We talked a lot about the challenges of our profession. What I loved about it was it was a forward looking document that said, "If you're interested in being part of the solution, here are the pathways."BREE:              Absolutely, and everybody that got involved from the beginning all the way through to when we were passing resolutions, when the president of the ABA, Hilarie Bass picked this up and said she wanted to make it a priority, I believe that it was so successful because every person who pick this up and looked at it, he or she had experienced either maybe within their own career, but certainly over the course of their career, they had known lawyers or maybe judges, or even a law student, who had experienced some of these problems. Had experienced some severe episode of depression, or perhaps of a substance use disorder.Even though we don't talk about these things in the profession, we have all bumped up against it in one way or another, over the course of our career. Really, what most tragically motivates so many people, especially if you've been in this field for a couple of decades or more, we all have stories of someone we have worked with, have known, a colleague who has taken his or her own life. Unfortunately, the tragedy, with those tragedies comes some opportunities to look at how we can do things better and it really motivates people to make some change. So, it seems like the task force and the report, it was the right thing at the right time.Since that time, what we've really worked towards is trying to build, I guess, you'd say, grassroots movement across the country. That starts with each of the States taking the report. We actually talked about sort of, I talk about being cheeky. Because you look in the report, it's actually to the Chief Justice of each State and saying to her or him, "This is ultimately your responsibility for the well-being of the legal community under you. We're asking you to pull together a task force or commissioner committee pulling together the heads of the different stakeholder groups within the profession. Take a look at this report.See if there's something that inspires you see. If there are things that need to happen in your State, what works for you. If it doesn't work for your State, then don't do it." A large number of States are picking up that charge and it really is occurring in a, again, in a really compressed timeline. It's amazing, Chris, you've been a part of a number of those States coming together to try and pull, put together their own task force.CHRIS:              Yeah, and it's been really, again, impressive to see the amount of interest at the local level. I think change generally starts at the local level. So, when you think about, we had a number of States and I'll give a shout out to a couple of them. States like Vermont, they went really early. Put together a task force, had a very supportive Chief Justice in Chief Justice Paul Reiber, and really have done a really significant work moving it forward. Virginia's another great example.BREE:         Absolutely.CHRIS:              One of our national task force original members was the Chief Justice there.BREE:              Don LemonsCHRIS:               Don Lemons in Virginia. Again, this is just an issue that resonated with him, and we do a lot of malpractice insurance in the Commonwealth. I just think that there's a yearning to be the very best lawyers that we can possibly be and to have the support of the judiciary there, and the Virginia State Bar. Utah, another great example of a State that got out in front and really started to set the tone for a movement of state task forces or state commissions to really look at the issue. Identify how well-being is occurring at the local level.Make suggestions, make recommendations, and again, strive for systemic change to our particular profession. Bree, do you have the latest numbers on how many States have engaged in some type of activity at the state level for a task force or a commission?BREE:                Sure, yeah. One cool thing you can do is on our website, lawyerwellbeing.net, if you scroll down and there's an interactive map. So, you can see the States, it's wonderful to see it visually, the States where they have implemented a commission or a task force, so that sort of thing. In some States, they haven't done a multi-stakeholder group. Maybe it is the state bar has put together a lawyer well-being committee or commission, that's doing a lot of the work around this. Universally, or almost universally, the Lawyers Assistance Programs are very involved in this work, too.So, it's taken different forms, but I would say the last time I counted, there's about 32 to 35 States now that are working in this space. So, well over a majority. So, it's exciting.CHRIS:                Yeah, and I think ultimately, what is most exciting for those of us in the space is what started out as a small group of 20 to 25 people, really kind of concerned about the issue, has really multiplied by many, many factors in terms of, there are literally people in every state and every territory around the United States that are vested in this particular issue, are working with their respective state bars, or their regulatory entities, or their Supreme Courts. That's the underpinnings of, again, a change in the environment.A change in what we're trying to promote, which is, I think, obviously, a healthier legal profession of folks who find professional satisfaction in the practice of law. As we know from the numbers, that's not always the case. We have a lot of work to do because we work in an adversarial system. We work in a stressful system, and then, you add on top of that, some of the events of 2020, and you double down on that even further. So, there just can't be, I think, a more important time for us to be launching this podcast series to talk about the issues that are affecting the current and the future of lawyer well-being.Really bring on, again, really cool people doing awesome work in this particular field, because there are great people. We will talk to the Anne Bradfords and the Patrick Krills. But we'll also go down, those are national, I think, pioneers in our space, but we'll also, I think, go down and also look for stories that's happening at the local level. We'll look at specific topics. We have all these state task force chairs that are looking for guidance in particular areas of the well-being discussion. We have modifications to the rules of professional conduct that are happening with respect to well-being. We have incredible stories happening in our law schools.BREE:       Absolutely.CHRIS:               We have developments on character and fitness parts of bar applications. We have pathways for reducing stigma in law firm culture. I what I'm excited about is the, I think, the intellectual journey that is in front of us. As you, Bree, as you think about the vision of this podcast, what gets you excited about? What's on the horizon? Because there's just so many areas that we could go as we co-host this podcast series, and what has you excited?BREE:            Well, I'm excited now after hearing the list all of those things out. I am really jazzed about the future of what we're going to do, because again, there are so many people working in this space and anybody that starts to work on the issues around lawyer impairment and lawyer well-being. If you dig just a little bit under the surface, there's a story there, and I'm excited about bringing forward some of those stories. So, on that topic, Chris, let's talk about our stories and our [crosstalk].CHRIS:              Yeah. Bree, let's take a quick break. I want to hear from our friends at ALPS. ALPS is, obviously, the entity as you will learn is where I do my day job. We've been able to leverage the marketing department here. So, let's hear from our friends at ALPS and then we'll come back and we'll pick up and talk about our own stories.BREE:              Great.CHRIS:            Okay.—Your law firm is worth protecting. And so is your time. ALPS has the quickest application for legal malpractice insurance out there. Apply, see rates and bind coverage – all in about 20 minutes. Being a lawyer is hard. Our new online app is easy. Apply now at applyonline.alpsnet.com—Welcome back. Bree, this is the part of, I think, our first podcast that I was looking forward most. Even though you and I have worked together for three to four years now,. Sometimes, we don't know the personal story about the why, right. As we think about beginnings and the beginning of this podcast, I thought it would be, I think we both thought it would be appropriate that we share our individual stories and why we bring passion, that passion, I think, originated from differing sources. So, I just thought we'd close out our first podcast with a little bit of an introduction of ourselves to our listeners.BREE:               Sure.CHRIS:                If you could start us off with your story and how you find yourself, where you are today.BREE:           Yeah. How I find myself today, it's a miracle really. It's just astounding to be in this space and be able to work on these issues because, the issues around depression, and anxiety, and substance use disorders and all of those things are things that plagued me throughout my life and my career. So, to come through that and through recovery, and on the other side, and be in a position now where I can work to make such a difference, it's just miraculous. When I started law school, I'll just give you everything. I graduated law school in 1989. So, you can do the math.But I got to law school and I was absolutely terrified. I was one of those many, I think probably many nobody ever talks about it, but feeling like an imposter, there's a thing called the imposter syndrome. Then, I was, what was I doing here? I'm not nearly as smart as all these other people who are fronting and acting so smart and covering over their own insecurities. So, by the time I got to the first end of the first semester, the first year of law school and got my grades, I ended up with a full blown panic disorder, which is miserable. Lots of anxiety every single day. So, I started doing what worked and what was certainly the go-to for anything and everything, in the legal profession, which was alcohol.I found that if I drank and drank pretty heavily, that anxiety would go away. I graduated from law school. I got the job that I had always wanted, which was to work at legal aid and was doing domestic violence litigation for about 10 years and loved it. But was absolutely terrified the whole time, particularly the first couple of years. Again, raising that issue of the imposter syndrome, being so afraid that I'm new, and every time the phone rings, that it's going to be an opposing counsel, and they're going to beat up or take advantage of this new lawyer. I also was dealing with the incredibly difficult content of the cases, the evidence, the horrific fact patterns.Later on got involved in litigation with child abuse and representing children that are in the foster care system. So, if you think about the type of facts and stories that I was living in every day, I dealt with what is now called compassion fatigue. I had no idea what that was at the time in the early 90s. Dealt with burnout, too much work, and not enough time to do it all, not enough support systems, et cetera. So, I dealt with a lot of depression. I still had some anxiety. Again, what I found worked, "worked" in the moment was to use alcohol. Over the course of my career, I really ended up taking sort of two paths.There was the public face. Then, there was the private face. So, publicly, look at my CV. It looks good. It had some jobs, leadership positions, president of this, whatever, you'd think, "Oh, she's got it together." But what was going on in my home, where no one could see, was a lot of very unhappy existence, exhaustion, not ever feeling good enough because I held myself to a standard of perfection. Ultimately, as it tends to happen, I drank more over time. We know that the prolonged sustained drinking of alcohol and heavy amounts starts to create changes in the brain.I started to become physically dependent to it, upon it. Ultimately, I lost my marriage. That wasn't enough to get me to stop drinking. I find that listening to the stories of hundreds, if not thousands of lawyers dealing with similar problems, when I was at the Lawyers Assistance Program, that was common. Lawyers will let everything else fall in their life. Then, when it gets to work, which is where it finally got to me, when it affects your career, then that's the bottom. Not too long after I lost my marriage, I lost my job. That point was my low point. I finally was ready to admit that I couldn't control my drinking anymore, and I got into recovery.Just as I tend to throw myself full on into whatever I do, I did that with recovery as well. That, for me, meant really making use of all the resources that were available. The thing that I learned early on and what I try to impart so much to people, lawyers who are suffering, is you've got to ask for help. We've got to be willing to say, "I'm suffering, I'm struggling, and I need help." I did that in spades. I called and got involved with a therapist. I saw a psychiatrist to get treatment for my depression and anxiety. I participated in a mutual support program for my drinking, worked that program.I got involved with the lawyer's assistance program and ultimately ended up getting a job there. So, fast forward, I've been in recovery now for 10 and a half years, and my life is amazing. It is beyond anything that I could have ever imagined, but I had to get to that point and that realization where I was willing to be vulnerable, ask for help, and then do the work. Ask for help and then do what I was told to do by people who are experts in the field. So, you can see, I have a real sort of homegrown passion for this. I understand really what it's like to live every day, going to work as a lawyer, and being afraid and not feeling like you're enough.Anyway, so just out of all of that, I've grown to have a real passion for making sure as few others as possible have that same experience, and will share my story when people are interested, and I think that it would be of help.CHRIS:               Well, thank you, Bree, for a couple of things. First of all, being vulnerable and telling your own personal story. I think that we will consistently encourage that to all of our guests, I think, on the podcast, because that vulnerability, I think, is something that naturally allows us to be better understanding of how you have ... The depth of personal struggles that you have endured have led you to this position of moving into leadership and helping others. That's awesome stuff. I was going to take a couple of minutes on my story. It's interesting.My story is that I take a completely different track. It's not as much developed from its core from a personal perspective as much as from an observation perspective, which is, I ... Just a history on myself, I'm a first-generation college graduate in my family. So, everything was new. So, as I looked at going to law school and understanding that I was entering a profession, that I was very much public interest oriented probably when I went into law school. Just kind of saw some things happening in law school amongst classmates and others that gave me a concern.Then, as I reflected, I'm a 2001 graduate of the University of Montana School of Law. One of the things, as I reflected on really kind of a tenure point in my legal career, was that when I queried my classmates about their professional satisfaction in the practice of law, I just, frankly, wasn't getting a response that was positive. So, when you think about the fact that folks have went down a course in terms of selection of a professional career and to not be finding professional satisfaction, and to almost actively be encouraging their kids to not think about pursuing a passion in law, it just gave me a belief that there's something systemically broken in our profession.Again, great things happening in a lot of different respects. I think our profession is one that has ... I'm always driven by seeing organizations and individuals realize their potential. If we think about the legal profession, I just kind of reflected on the notion that I don't think our legal profession is realizing its potential. Part of it has to do with the manner in which there's just a nature of unhealthiness undercurrent, beneath the hood a little bit that is pulling away from our profession, realizing its potential.I happened to be in a class of, graduating class of '75, at the University of Montana and have had to endure three suicides in our class. Again, you just sit there and go, "What's going on? Why is this happening?" It's not always related to the law. Obviously, we are human beings before we are lawyers. We always have to remember that, but I've spent a lot of my time really thinking about why are some of these things occurring? In my day job here at ALPS, I spent a lot of time working with State bar associations and doing strategic planning. I know how much this issue affects members of bar associations.So, I just felt like I'm an accidental leader in some respects in this movement, but I was drawn to it because I believe in the potential of our profession, and in working toward making it better. I felt like if I have some skills and some passion, and if I can somehow advance the conversation that this would be an appropriate venue to get involved. I happened to get introduced to the well-being movement by somebody who also, Bree, you know very well. That's our dear friend, Jim Coyle out of Colorado.BREE:           Absolutely.CHRIS:               Jim would be incredible, and Bree, we got to get Jim on to the podcast, because I think that he was single-handedly responsible for seeing something in me and seeing somehow how my perspectives would add perspective and flavor to our discussions. Jim was an original co-chair of the National Task Force on Lawyer Well-Being, after having sat and served with distinction in the office of the Disciplinary Counsel and Attorney Regulation, I guess they call it in Colorado. So, Jim introduced me and said, "You got something to give to this movement." Invited me in, and it's been a wonderful and rewarding journey thus far, and we still have a lot of work to go.BREE:            Absolutely. Absolutely. I'm hearing your story, what brought you to the movement, and that's a first for me. It really strikes me that between our two stories, it encapsulates what the issues that the National Task Force is working on. I come to this because I have a history of basically impairments, or the depression, and substance use disorder. We're really about, the national task force, is really about trying to provide, make sure that there is treatment, there are resources, there's education and information about that out there. There's providers who can talk about that.But it's also really about, so much of what we wanted to do is about the fact that so many of our colleagues are not thriving in the practice of law. What a loss, what a loss personally, and what a loss to the profession, when we're not able to work up to our full capacity. So, I think this is a great partnership, Chris.CHRIS:              Yeah, it is. I'm excited for the journey. I do think that I wanted to give a little bit of a preview of who our intended audience is, because I think that that's an important part of why we develop the podcast series in the first place. This podcast series is specifically designed for folks who are taking an active leadership role in the well-being movement, for you to hear from others around the country. To learn their stories and learn about their expertise so that you can find and connect dots into resources that you need to help us move this movement forward. There are other podcasts out there that I think focused on individual lawyers.There's, obviously, mindfulness, meditation, eating well, taking care of yourself. Those are very important attributes to taking each lawyer individually and comprising our legal profession. Our goal, I think, in this particular podcast is to think about those who are thinking about it holistically, thinking about it in terms of how they can move the needle at the local level. So, this is a podcast that's specifically developed for all those folks who have a real passion in becoming leaders in our movement, and connecting those folks through the sharing of information and education,BREE:                Right. We've always, the task force have always been about really looking at systemic change. We said from the very beginning, we're going to try and lecture individual lawyers that they need to eat their vegetables and exercise, because we knew that and an individual lawyer can meditate, and run, and eat all the broccoli in the world, but they can't change the systemic issues within the legal system that make it almost impossible for everyone to be able to really thrive. So, that's what we're trying to get at, the big picture stuff.CHRIS:                Yup, and Bree, you and I, we have a goal, right? That we want to keep these episodes to probably 20 to 45 minutes. We're targeting probably two podcasts a month as we look to continue to add new guests and new perspectives to this podcast series. So, Bree, we got to wrap this up. We got a lot of preparation to do as we nail down future speakers. We're excited, I think, by the journey that lies ahead. So, I'm wishing you well. This is Chris.BREE:              And Bree.CHRIS:                We'll sign off. Thank you for listening, and we'll be back with a podcast probably in a couple of weeks. Thank you. 

The Governor’s Office and the Office of Public Instruction put out two separate plans earlier this month providing guidance to school districts as they try to hash out what K-12 education might look like in the fall. Districts say both plans are by and large the same, but lack some specifics.

After the Little Shell Tribe of Chippewa Indians gained federal recognition six months ago, students from the University of Montana School of Journalism talked at length with tribal members about what that means to them. In this story, student Evan Bartel introduces former chairman of the tribe, John Gilbert.

Texas+Water Editor-in-Chief Dr. Todd Votteler talks with Stacey Allison Steinbach, General Manager of the Texas Water Conservation Association (TWCA). Steinbach joined TWCA in June 2015. She previously worked as a utility district attorney in private practice, as a staff attorney for the Texas General Land Office and most recently as the Executive Director of the Texas Alliance of Groundwater Districts. She holds a bachelor of science in biology and ecology from Baylor University, a master of science in wildlife and fisheries sciences from Texas A&M University, and a juris doctor with honors from the University of Montana School of Law.

#Ep.29: "Tips For The Older Runner" with Dr Rich WillyThis is a HUGELY valuable episode for any 40+yrs old runner, plus anyone who works with runners of this age!Many runners know all to well that hitting 40+ years brings changes; pace decreases, recovery takes longer, injury patterns change. The good news is there ARE specific things we can do to minimise the effects of age, plus some of the things we may be worrying about like 'wear & tear on the knees' are not actually true. All this and more will be explained by our very special guest, a leading authority in current running research, Dr. Richard Willy of University of Montana - School of Physical Therapy.When it comes to running research, Dr. Rich Willy is one of the leaders of the pack. With a PhD in Biomechanics and Movement Science and a masters of physical therapy, he has over 18 years clinical experience specializing in the treatment of the injured runner and is currently Assistant Professor in the School of Physical Therapy, University of Montana.As the author of multiple published papers aimed at developing clinically effective treatments for patellofemoral pain syndrome, Achilles tendon injuries and tibial stress fractures, Dr. Willy is a highly respected presenter both nationally & internationally and his research has been featured in Runner’s World multiple times.Though Rich is sadly not able to be a speaker at this year's RCL Running Conference, we're going to do everything we can to get him over next year! Details & tickets for this year's conference (October 30/31 in Brighton, UK) can be found at https://RCL2019.eventbrite.com. BE SURE TO CHECK OUT THE CHAPTER MARKERS (availability will depend on what app you are listening on.)As with all episodes of RunChatLive, this episode was recorded LIVE 1.30pm GMT at www.facebook.com/runchatlive. All episodes are available as audio podcasts on Spotify, iTunes, Podbean, Stitcher, etc. For more details, visit https://www.runchatlive.com/Support the show (https://www.patreon.com/runchatlive)

Montana parents want to use a scholarship tax credit program to send their kids to religious schools. Montana’s high court says no. The Supreme Court will ultimately decide the issue this term. Erica Smith with the Institute for Justice comments. See acast.com/privacy for privacy and opt-out information.

Complaints against the Wolf Point School District include unequal treatment of Native students, bullying and even staff members using racial slurs. The U.S. Department of Education’s Office for Civil Rights is investigating the claims. The Fort Peck Assiniboine Sioux Tribes filed a complaint with the help of the Montana American Civil Liberties Union. We’ll learn more with some of those involved with the case.

Download the Free Legal Audit Workbook Here (it will take you step by step through this episode). I'm honored to welcome Paige Griffith from The Legal Paige to the podcast today. Paige is walking us, step-by-step, through a Legal Audit of our Wedding Businesses. Spoiler Alert: Paige dives DEEP in this episode so buckle up. I highly encourage you to download her Free Legal Audit Workbook and take your wedding business through this whole process. Let me tell you a bit more about Paige: Paige Griffith graduated in 2016 from the University of Montana School of Law with high honors, and also holds a double BA in Economics and Political Science from Pacific Lutheran University. During her time in law school, she started a photography business and after a lot of hustle, late nights, and determination, it became a six-figure business in just 3 years. Paige has now combined her legal and entrepreneurial passions to help other entrepreneurs and creatives create successful and legitimate businesses. Her goal is to create a space where all small businesses feel protected and confident. The Legal Paige was founded in 2018 and is a virtual legal consulting firm for small business entrepreneurs.

Craig sits down with Dr. Christopher Hahn, Professor of Piano and Piano Pedagogy and Keyboard Division Chair with the University of Montana. He discusses about the upcoming concert, "Celebrating Piano Series Featuring Spencer Myer". The event takes place on Sunday, January 13th, 2019 at the University of Montana Music Recital Hall, 975 Maurice Ave, Missoula, MT 59812. For more information about the event, click here.

Today's guest is wedding photographer and attorney Paige Griffith of Paige Marie Photography. Paige primarily serves the Missoula, Montana area, which—relative to cities that we're near like Baltimore and Washington DC—is a pretty small market, and that's exactly the reason that I wanted to chat with Paige. We often hear from people in smaller markets that some of the strategies out there just don't work for their smaller, especially more rural areas. Well, I wanted to chat with Paige about how she was able to build a six-figure photography business in a smaller market. She outlines the challenges business owners face in those markets and then gives us steps that business owners can take to market their businesses in those areas. The highlights: 03:02 How a creative outlet in law school led to a full-time business. 10:40 The three challenges of building a business in a small(er) market. 16:15 How Paige intentionally built her portfolio. 20:43 Advertising in a small market, and the importance of choosing the right publications and platforms. 24:03 How marketing with handouts is still effective for Paige, and the importance of building a personal brand. 31:11 The challenge of pricing services in a smaller market—and understanding what your ideal client is willing to pay. 36:56 What it means to 'find a niche, fill the niche, kill the niche.' 43:05 The importance of going to your audience. 45:56 Getting published in local and regional publications. 48:22 How to get participation from other vendors in styled shoots. 50:55 The importance of investing in a website. 55:45 How Paige manages being both a full time attorney and full time wedding photographer. Paige's Biography: Paige Griffith graduated in May 2016 from the University of Montana School of Law with high honors, and also holds a double BA in Economics and Political Science from Pacific Lutheran University. During her time in law school, she was actively involved in the Women's Law Caucus, Montana Law Review, and National Moot Court Team. She started a photography business during law school which became a six-figure business in just 3 years. Paige combined her legal and entrepreneurial passions by helping other entrepreneurs and creatives create successful and legitimate businesses. Her goal is to create a space where all small businesses feel protected and confident. The Legal Paige was founded in 2018 and is an online legal consulting and business consulting firm. Resources Mentioned in this Episode: The Legal Paige James & Jess Photography Check out the show notes at Davey & Krista (https://daveyandkrista.com/btb-paige-griffith-episode-21?utm_source=itunes&utm_medium=episode-show-notes&utm_campaign=paige-griffith-21) for links, resources, transcripts, and other episode materials.

It was fun to sit down with the owners of one of our favorite team gathering places: City Vineyard. They have a very hot, new location in Billings, Montana, are quickly expanding now to Bozeman, and poised for further expansion. Get a glimpse into their journey as they share some very helpful information - not only about their growth with City Vineyard, but insights and things they learned from their background. Abigail Reno was born and raised in Billings, MT and graduated from the University of Montana School of Business in 2005 with a degree in Business Administration. After graduation she accepted a position with Nordstrom in San Francisco, CA. Reno returned to Billings in 2006 to oversee retail operations and strategy for City Brew Coffee, opening 15 locations through 2016. Reno now owns her own business, City Vineyard Wine, and continues to consult for City Brew Coffee.During her tenure with City Brew, Reno was responsible for over 400 employees. In addition to directing operations, Reno developed key technology integration, marketing, and growth strategy initiatives and oversaw their execution. Ryan grew up in Billings as well, and got his undergrad at Gonzaga in Spokane, Washington. He then went to law school at U of Montana in Missoula and went on to spend 11 years as a Deputy County Attorney. When the opportunity presented itself, he jumped at the opportunity to get involved in with his wife and family’s business. He and his wife Abby are co-owners of City Vineyard and wears many hats. He helps with human resources, leasing, all the technology aspects of the business, and is a hands on member of the company. He also handles more of the high end clients, and brings in hard to get wines to the store. He is responsible for keeping the wheels turning and the business growing.  They have also grown City Vineyard and has since moved it to its new, much larger, location on 32nd & Grand Avenue in Billings, MT.  The new layout focus on the growth of a gourmet market and wine bar while maintaining the extensive wine selection City Vineyard became known for.  

Dale Burke—owner of Stevensville’s Stoneydale Press and former Missoulian Outdoor and Environmental reporter—talks about the ways in which local environmentalists and the University of Montana School of Forestry reshaped national timber policy on public lands.

Duluth area business owners, entrepreneurs, employees, and consumers meet our newest reporter Brooks Johnson.  Born and raised in Fargo and educated at the University of Montana School of Journalism, Brooks comes to us from Vancouver, Wash., a suburb of Portland, Ore., where he covered business and ports for about a year.  In his first week, Brooks has already hit the ground running and broken some interesting Duluth and Iron Range business stories. Listen here to see what he is most interested in covering in the Twin Ports and why. If you have a story idea for Brooks or would just like to say hi, you can email us at podcast@duluthnews.com and we will relay the message. What we are into this week: The new Band of Horses record, the new home of the Minnesota Vikings and website analytics.   

Four exchange students - from China, Thailand, Korea and Mexico - spend a year in tiny Judith Gap, Montana. All four students are from cities of several million, and attended schools with thousands of students. Judith Gap has 120 inhabitants, and before the exchange students arrived, the high school had an enrollment of only two.

Today’s featured farmers: Mary Bricker & Noah Jackson Mary Bricker is an ecologist with a passion for natural history and and teaching. She has worked with students in the classroom, in school gardens and local natural areas, and on backpacking and sea kayaking wilderness trips. Her ecology research on species interactions has given her the perfect excuse to get her boots muddy in a wide range of locations and ecosystems: temperate rainforests in Oregon, tropical forests of Central America and East Africa, and western Montana prairies in all seasons. Mary earned a B.A. in Biology from Lewis and Clark College and PhD in Ecology from the University of Montana. Before working with Forest Voices, she taught as an assistant professor of Biology at Pacific University in Oregon. Noah Jackson is a conservation consultant and storyteller whose work combines photography, writing, and new media to document conservation and community issues. He has worked in Asia and Africa for over a decade, starting as a Peace Corps volunteer, and continuing through graduate work, a Fulbright fellowship, independent projects, and as an auditor and farmer trainer for the Rainforest Alliance. His storytelling work can be found in publications such as the National Geographic Traveler, the Rainforest Alliance Blog and Canopy newsletter. Noah holds a BA in Anthropology and Environmental studies with a minor in Biology, from Bowdoin College, and a MS from the University of Montana School of Forestry.