Podcasts about docx

If you've listened to the podcast for a while, you might have heard our ElevenLabs-powered AI co-host Charlie a few times. Text-to-speech has made amazing progress in the last 18 months, with OpenAI's Advanced Voice Mode (aka “Her”) as a sneak peek of the future of AI interactions (see our “Building AGI in Real Time” recap). Yet, we had yet to see a real killer app for AI voice (not counting music).Today's guests, Raiza Martin and Usama Bin Shafqat, are the lead PM and AI engineer behind the NotebookLM feature flag that gave us the first viral AI voice experience, the “Deep Dive” podcast:The idea behind the “Audio Overviews” feature is simple: take a bunch of documents, websites, YouTube videos, etc, and generate a podcast out of them. This was one of the first demos that people built with voice models + RAG + GPT models, but it was always a glorified speech-to-text. Raiza and Usama took a very different approach:* Make it conversational: when you listen to a NotebookLM audio there are a ton of micro-interjections (Steven Johnson calls them disfluencies) like “Oh really?” or “Totally”, as well as pauses and “uh…”, like you would expect in a real conversation. These are not generated by the LLM in the transcript, but they are built into the the audio model. See ~28:00 in the pod for more details. * Listeners love tension: if two people are always in agreement on everything, it's not super interesting. They tuned the model to generate flowing conversations that mirror the tone and rhythm of human speech. They did not confirm this, but many suspect the 2 year old SoundStorm paper is related to this model.* Generating new insights: because the hosts' goal is not to summarize, but to entertain, it comes up with funny metaphors and comparisons that actually help expand on the content rather than just paraphrasing like most models do. We have had listeners make podcasts out of our podcasts, like this one.This is different than your average SOTA-chasing, MMLU-driven model buildooor. Putting product and AI engineering in the same room, having them build evals together, and understanding what the goal is lets you get these unique results. The 5 rules for AI PMsWe always focus on AI Engineers, but this episode had a ton of AI PM nuggets as well, which we wanted to collect as NotebookLM is one of the most successful products in the AI space:1. Less is more: the first version of the product had 0 customization options. All you could do is give it source documents, and then press a button to generate. Most users don't know what “temperature” or “top-k” are, so you're often taking the magic away by adding more options in the UI. Since recording they added a few, like a system prompt, but those were features that users were “hacking in”, as Simon Willison highlighted in his blog post.2. Use Real-Time Feedback: they built a community of 65,000 users on Discord that is constantly reporting issues and giving feedback; sometimes they noticed server downtime even before the Google internal monitoring did. Getting real time pings > aggregating user data when doing initial iterations. 3. Embrace Non-Determinism: AI outputs variability is a feature, not a bug. Rather than limiting the outputs from the get-go, build toggles that you can turn on/off with feature flags as the feedback starts to roll in.4. Curate with Taste: if you try your product and it sucks, you don't need more data to confirm it. Just scrap that and iterate again. This is even easier for a product like this; if you start listening to one of the podcasts and turn it off after 10 seconds, it's never a good sign. 5. Stay Hands-On: It's hard to build taste if you don't experiment. Trying out all your competitors products as well as unrelated tools really helps you understand what users are seeing in market, and how to improve on it.Chapters00:00 Introductions01:39 From Project Tailwind to NotebookLM09:25 Learning from 65,000 Discord members12:15 How NotebookLM works18:00 Working with Steven Johnson23:00 How to prioritize features25:13 Structuring the data pipelines29:50 How to eval34:34 Steering the podcast outputs37:51 Defining speakers personalities39:04 How do you make audio engaging?45:47 Humor is AGI51:38 Designing for non-determinism53:35 API when?55:05 Multilingual support and dialect considerations57:50 Managing system prompts and feature requests01:00:58 Future of NotebookLM01:04:59 Podcasts for your codebase01:07:16 Plans for real-time chat01:08:27 Wrap upShow Notes* Notebook LM* AI Test Kitchen* Nicholas Carlini* Steven Johnson* Wealth of Nations* Histories of Mysteries by Andrej Karpathy* chicken.pdf Threads* Area 120* Raiza Martin* Usama Bin ShafqatTranscriptNotebookLM [00:00:00]: Hey everyone, we're here today as guests on Latent Space. It's great to be here, I'm a long time listener and fan, they've had some great guests on this show before. Yeah, what an honor to have us, the hosts of another podcast, join as guests. I mean a huge thank you to Swyx and Alessio for the invite, thanks for having us on the show. Yeah really, it seems like they brought us here to talk a little bit about our show, our podcast. Yeah, I mean we've had lots of listeners ourselves, listeners at Deep Dive. Oh yeah, we've made a ton of audio overviews since we launched and we're learning a lot. There's probably a lot we can share around what we're building next, huh? Yeah, we'll share a little bit at least. The short version is we'll keep learning and getting better for you. We're glad you're along for the ride. So yeah, keep listening. Keep listening and stay curious. We promise to keep diving deep and bringing you even better options in the future. Stay curious.Alessio [00:00:52]: Hey everyone, welcome to the Latent Space Podcast. This is Alessio, partner and CTO at Residence at Decibel Partners. And I'm joined by my co-host, Swyx, founder of Smol.ai.Swyx [00:01:01]: Hey, and today we're back in the studio with our special guest, Raiza Martin. And Raiza, I forgot to get your last name, Shafqat.Raiza [00:01:10]: Yes.Swyx [00:01:10]: Okay, welcome.Raiza [00:01:12]: Hello, thank you for having us.Swyx [00:01:14]: So AI podcasters meet human podcasters, always fun. Congrats on the success of Notebook LM. I mean, how does it feel?Raiza [00:01:22]: It's been a lot of fun. A lot of it, honestly, was unexpected. But my favorite part is really listening to the audio overviews that people have been making.Swyx [00:01:29]: Maybe we should do a little bit of intros and tell the story. You know, what is your path into the sort of Google AI org? Or maybe, actually, I don't even know what org you guys are in.Raiza [00:01:39]: I can start. My name is Raisa. I lead the Notebook LM team inside of Google Labs. So specifically, that's the org that we're in. It's called Google Labs. It's only about two years old. And our whole mandate is really to build AI products. That's it. We work super closely with DeepMind. Our entire thing is just, like, try a bunch of things and see what's landing with users. And the background that I have is, really, I worked in payments before this, and I worked in ads right before, and then startups. I tell people, like, at every time that I changed orgs, I actually almost quit Google. Like, specifically, like, in between ads and payments, I was like, all right, I can't do this. Like, this is, like, super hard. I was like, it's not for me. I'm, like, a very zero-to-one person. But then I was like, okay, I'll try. I'll interview with other teams. And when I interviewed in payments, I was like, oh, these people are really cool. I don't know if I'm, like, a super good fit with this space, but I'll try it because the people are cool. And then I really enjoyed that, and then I worked on, like, zero-to-one features inside of payments, and I had a lot of fun. But then the time came again where I was like, oh, I don't know. It's like, it's time to leave. It's time to start my own thing. But then I interviewed inside of Google Labs, and I was like, oh, darn. Like, there's definitely, like—Alessio [00:02:48]: They got you again.Raiza [00:02:49]: They got me again. And so now I've been here for two years, and I'm happy that I stayed because especially with, you know, the recent success of Notebook LM, I'm like, dang, we did it. I actually got to do it. So that was really cool.Usama [00:03:02]: Kind of similar, honestly. I was at a big team at Google. We do sort of the data center supply chain planning stuff. Google has, like, the largest sort of footprint. Obviously, there's a lot of management stuff to do there. But then there was this thing called Area 120 at Google, which does not exist anymore. But I sort of wanted to do, like, more zero-to-one building and landed a role there. We were trying to build, like, a creator commerce platform called Kaya. It launched briefly a couple years ago. But then Area 120 sort of transitioned and morphed into Labs. And, like, over the last few years, like, the focus just got a lot clearer. Like, we were trying to build new AI products and do it in the wild and sort of co-create and all of that. So, you know, we've just been trying a bunch of different things. And this one really landed, which has felt pretty phenomenal. Really, really landed.Swyx [00:03:53]: Let's talk about the brief history of Notebook LM. You had a tweet, which is very helpful for doing research. May 2023, during Google I.O., you announced Project Tailwind.Raiza [00:04:03]: Yeah.Swyx [00:04:03]: So today is October 2024. So you joined October 2022?Raiza [00:04:09]: Actually, I used to lead AI Test Kitchen. And this was actually, I think, not I.O. 2023. I.O. 2022 is when we launched AI Test Kitchen, or announced it. And I don't know if you remember it.Swyx [00:04:23]: That's how you, like, had the basic prototype for Gemini.Raiza [00:04:26]: Yes, yes, exactly. Lambda.Swyx [00:04:28]: Gave beta access to people.Raiza [00:04:29]: Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I remember, I was like, wow, this is crazy. We're going to launch an LLM into the wild. And that was the first project that I was working on at Google. But at the same time, my manager at the time, Josh, he was like, hey, I want you to really think about, like, what real products would we build that are not just demos of the technology? That was in October of 2022. I was sitting next to an engineer that was working on a project called Talk to Small Corpus. His name was Adam. And the idea of Talk to Small Corpus is basically using LLM to talk to your data. And at the time, I was like, wait, there's some, like, really practical things that you can build here. And just a little bit of background, like, I was an adult learner. Like, I went to college while I was working a full-time job. And the first thing I thought was, like, this would have really helped me with my studying, right? Like, if I could just, like, talk to a textbook, especially, like, when I was tired after work, that would have been huge. We took a lot of, like, the Talk to Small Corpus prototypes, and I showed it to a lot of, like, college students, particularly, like, adult learners. They were like, yes, like, I get it, right? Like, I didn't even have to explain it to them. And we just continued to iterate the prototype from there to the point where we actually got a slot as part of the I.O. demo in 23.Swyx [00:05:42]: And Corpus, was it a textbook? Oh, my gosh.Raiza [00:05:45]: Yeah. It's funny. Actually, when he explained the project to me, he was like, talk to Small Corpus. It was like, talk to a small corpse?Swyx [00:05:51]: Yeah, nobody says Corpus.Raiza [00:06:00]: It was like, a small corpse? This is not AI. Yeah, yeah. And it really was just, like, a way for us to describe the amount of data that we thought, like, it could be good for.Swyx [00:06:02]: Yeah, but even then, you're still, like, doing rag stuff. Because, you know, the context length back then was probably, like, 2K, 4K.Raiza [00:06:08]: Yeah, it was basically rag.Raiza [00:06:09]: That was essentially what it was.Raiza [00:06:10]: And I remember, I was like, we were building the prototypes. And at the same time, I think, like, the rest of the world was. Right? We were seeing all of these, like, chat with PDF stuff come up. And I was like, come on, we gotta go. Like, we have to, like, push this out into the world. I think if there was anything, I wish we would have launched sooner because I wanted to learn faster. But I think, like, we netted out pretty well.Alessio [00:06:30]: Was the initial product just text-to-speech? Or were you also doing kind of, like, synthesizing of the content, refining it? Or were you just helping people read through it?Raiza [00:06:40]: Before we did the I.O. announcement in 23, we'd already done a lot of studies. And one of the first things that I realized was the first thing anybody ever typed was, summarize the thing. Right?Raiza [00:06:53]: Summarize the document.Raiza [00:06:54]: And it was, like, half like a test and half just like, oh, I know the content. I want to see how well it does this. So it was part of the first thing that we launched. It was called Project Tailwind back then. It was just Q&A, so you could chat with the doc just through text, and it would automatically generate a summary as well. I'm not sure if we had it back then.Raiza [00:07:12]: I think we did.Raiza [00:07:12]: It would also generate the key topics in your document, and it could support up to, like, 10 documents. So it wasn't just, like, a single doc.Alessio [00:07:20]: And then the I.O. demo went well, I guess. And then what was the discussion from there to where we are today? Is there any, maybe, intermediate step of the product that people missed between this was launch or?Raiza [00:07:33]: It was interesting because every step of the way, I think we hit, like, some pretty critical milestones. So I think from the initial demo, I think there was so much excitement of, like, wow, what is this thing that Google is launching? And so we capitalized on that. We built the wait list. That's actually when we also launched the Discord server, which has been huge for us because for us in particular, one of the things that I really wanted to do was to be able to launch features and get feedback ASAP. Like, the moment somebody tries it, like, I want to hear what they think right now, and I want to ask follow-up questions. And the Discord has just been so great for that. But then we basically took the feedback from I.O., we continued to refine the product.Raiza [00:08:12]: So we added more features.Raiza [00:08:13]: We added sort of, like, the ability to save notes, write notes. We generate follow-up questions. So there's a bunch of stuff in the product that shows, like, a lot of that research. But it was really the rolling out of things. Like, we removed the wait list, so rolled out to all of the United States. We rolled out to over 200 countries and territories. We started supporting more languages, both in the UI and, like, the actual source stuff. We experienced, like, in terms of milestones, there was, like, an explosion of, like, users in Japan. This was super interesting in terms of just, like, unexpected. Like, people would write to us and they would be like, this is amazing. I have to read all of these rules in English, but I can chat in Japanese. It's like, oh, wow. That's true, right? Like, with LLMs, you kind of get this natural, it translates the content for you. And you can ask in your sort of preferred mode. And I think that's not just, like, a language thing, too. I think there's, like, I do this test with Wealth of Nations all the time because it's, like, a pretty complicated text to read. The Evan Smith classic.Swyx [00:09:11]: It's, like, 400 pages or something.Raiza [00:09:12]: Yeah. But I like this test because I'm, like, asking, like, Normie, you know, plain speak. And then it summarizes really well for me. It sort of adapts to my tone.Swyx [00:09:22]: Very capitalist.Raiza [00:09:25]: Very on brand.Swyx [00:09:25]: I just checked in on a Notebook LM Discord. 65,000 people. Yeah.Raiza [00:09:29]: Crazy.Swyx [00:09:29]: Just, like, for one project within Google. It's not, like, it's not labs. It's just Notebook LM.Raiza [00:09:35]: Just Notebook LM.Swyx [00:09:36]: What do you learn from the community?Raiza [00:09:39]: I think that the Discord is really great for hearing about a couple of things.Raiza [00:09:43]: One, when things are going wrong. I think, honestly, like, our fastest way that we've been able to find out if, like, the servers are down or there's just an influx of people being, like, it saysRaiza [00:09:53]: system unable to answer.Raiza [00:09:54]: Anybody else getting this?Raiza [00:09:56]: And I'm, like, all right, let's go.Raiza [00:09:58]: And it actually catches it a lot faster than, like, our own monitoring does.Raiza [00:10:01]: It's, like, that's been really cool. So, thank you.Swyx [00:10:03]: Canceled eat a dog.Raiza [00:10:05]: So, thank you to everybody. Please keep reporting it. I think the second thing is really the use cases.Raiza [00:10:10]: I think when we put it out there, I was, like, hey, I have a hunch of how people will use it, but, like, to actually hear about, you know, not just the context of, like, the use of Notebook LM, but, like, what is this person's life like? Why do they care about using this tool?Raiza [00:10:23]: Especially people who actually have trouble using it, but they keep pushing.Raiza [00:10:27]: Like, that's just so critical to understand what was so motivating, right?Raiza [00:10:31]: Like, what was your problem that was, like, so worth solving? So, that's, like, a second thing.Raiza [00:10:34]: The third thing is also just hearing sort of, like, when we have wins and when we don't have wins because there's actually a lot of functionality where I'm, like, hmm, IRaiza [00:10:42]: don't know if that landed super well or if that was actually super critical.Raiza [00:10:45]: As part of having this sort of small project, right, I want to be able to unlaunch things, too. So, it's not just about just, like, rolling things out and testing it and being, like, wow, now we have, like, 99 features. Like, hopefully we get to a place where it's, like, there's just a really strong core feature set and the things that aren't as great, we can just unlaunch.Swyx [00:11:02]: What have you unlaunched? I have to ask.Raiza [00:11:04]: I'm in the process of unlaunching some stuff, but, for example, we had this idea that you could highlight the text in your source passage and then you could transform it. And nobody was really using it and it was, like, a very complicated piece of our architecture and it's very hard to continue supporting it in the context of new features. So, we were, like, okay, let's do a 50-50 sunset of this thing and see if anybody complains.Raiza [00:11:28]: And so far, nobody has.Swyx [00:11:29]: Is there, like, a feature flagging paradigm inside of your architecture that lets you feature flag these things easily?Raiza [00:11:36]: Yes, and actually...Raiza [00:11:37]: What is it called?Swyx [00:11:38]: Like, I love feature flagging.Raiza [00:11:40]: You mean, like, in terms of just, like, being able to expose things to users?Swyx [00:11:42]: Yeah, as a PM. Like, this is your number one tool, right?Raiza [00:11:44]: Yeah, yeah.Swyx [00:11:45]: Let's try this out. All right, if it works, roll it out. If it doesn't, roll it back, you know?Raiza [00:11:49]: Yeah, I mean, we just run Mendel experiments for the most part. And, actually, I don't know if you saw it, but on Twitter, somebody was able to get around our flags and they enabled all the experiments.Raiza [00:11:58]: They were, like, check out what the Notebook LM team is cooking.Raiza [00:12:02]: I was, like, oh!Raiza [00:12:03]: And I was at lunch with the rest of the team and I was, like, I was eating. I was, like, guys, guys, Magic Draft League!Raiza [00:12:10]: They were, like, oh, no!Raiza [00:12:12]: I was, like, okay, just finish eating and then let's go figure out what to do.Raiza [00:12:15]: Yeah.Alessio [00:12:15]: I think a post-mortem would be fun, but I don't think we need to do it on the podcast now. Can we just talk about what's behind the magic? So, I think everybody has questions, hypotheses about what models power it. I know you might not be able to share everything, but can you just get people very basic? How do you take the data and put it in the model? What text model you use? What's the text-to-speech kind of, like, jump between the two? Sure.Raiza [00:12:42]: Yeah.Raiza [00:12:42]: I was going to say, SRaiza, he manually does all the podcasts.Raiza [00:12:46]: Oh, thank you.Usama [00:12:46]: Really fast. You're very fast, yeah.Raiza [00:12:48]: Both of the voices at once.Usama [00:12:51]: Voice actor.Raiza [00:12:52]: Good, good.Usama [00:12:52]: Yeah, so, for a bit of background, we were building this thing sort of outside Notebook LM to begin with. Like, just the idea is, like, content transformation, right? Like, we can do different modalities. Like, everyone knows that. Everyone's been poking at it. But, like, how do you make it really useful? And, like, one of the ways we thought was, like, okay, like, you maybe, like, you know, people learn better when they're hearing things. But TTS exists, and you can, like, narrate whatever's on screen. But you want to absorb it the same way. So, like, that's where we sort of started out into the realm of, like, maybe we try, like, you know, two people are having a conversation kind of format. We didn't actually start out thinking this would live in Notebook, right? Like, Notebook was sort of, we built this demo out independently, tried out, like, a few different sort of sources. The main idea was, like, go from some sort of sources and transform it into a listenable, engaging audio format. And then through that process, we, like, unlocked a bunch more sort of learnings. Like, for example, in a sense, like, you're not prompting the model as much because, like, the information density is getting unrolled by the model prompting itself, in a sense. Because there's two speakers, and they're both technically, like, AI personas, right? That have different angles of looking at things. And, like, they'll have a discussion about it. And that sort of, we realized that's kind of what was making it riveting, in a sense. Like, you care about what comes next, even if you've read the material already. Because, like, people say they get new insights on their own journals or books or whatever. Like, anything that they've written themselves. So, yeah, from a modeling perspective, like, it's, like Reiza said earlier, like, we work with the DeepMind audio folks pretty closely. So, they're always cooking up new techniques to, like, get better, more human-like audio. And then Gemini 1.5 is really, really good at absorbing long context. So, we sort of, like, generally put those things together in a way that we could reliably produce the audio.Raiza [00:14:52]: I would add, like, there's something really nuanced, I think, about sort of the evolution of, like, the utility of text-to-speech. Where, if it's just reading an actual text response, and I've done this several times. I do it all the time with, like, reading my text messages. Or, like, sometimes I'm trying to read, like, a really dense paper, but I'm trying to do actual work. I'll have it, like, read out the screen. There is something really robotic about it that is not engaging. And it's really hard to consume content in that way. And it's never been really effective. Like, particularly for me, where I'm, like, hey, it's actually just, like, it's fine for, like, short stuff. Like, texting, but even that, it's, like, not that great. So, I think the frontier of experimentation here was really thinking about there is a transform that needs to happen in between whatever.Raiza [00:15:38]: Here's, like, my resume, right?Raiza [00:15:39]: Or here's, like, a 100-page slide deck or something. There is a transform that needs to happen that is inherently editorial. And I think this is where, like, that two-person persona, right, dialogue model, they have takes on the material that you've presented. That's where it really sort of, like, brings the content to life in a way that's, like, not robotic. And I think that's, like, where the magic is, is, like, you don't actually know what's going to happen when you press generate.Raiza [00:16:08]: You know, for better or for worse.Raiza [00:16:09]: Like, to the extent that, like, people are, like, no, I actually want it to be more predictable now. Like, I want to be able to tell them. But I think that initial, like, wow was because you didn't know, right? When you upload your resume, what's it about to say about you? And I think I've seen enough of these where I'm, like, oh, it gave you good vibes, right? Like, you knew it was going to say, like, something really cool. As we start to shape this product, I think we want to try to preserve as much of that wow as much as we can. Because I do think, like, exposing, like, all the knobs and, like, the dials, like, we've been thinking about this a lot. It's like, hey, is that, like, the actual thing?Raiza [00:16:43]: Is that the thing that people really want?Alessio [00:16:45]: Have you found differences in having one model just generate the conversation and then using text-to-speech to kind of fake two people? Or, like, are you actually using two different kind of system prompts to, like, have a conversation step-by-step? I'm always curious, like, if persona system prompts make a big difference? Or, like, you just put in one prompt and then you just let it run?Usama [00:17:05]: I guess, like, generally we use a lot of inference, as you can tell with, like, the spinning thing takes a while. So, yeah, there's definitely, like, a bunch of different things happening under the hood. We've tried both approaches and they have their, sort of, drawbacks and benefits. I think that that idea of, like, questioning, like, the two different personas, like, persists throughout, like, whatever approach we try. It's like, there's a bit of, like, imperfection in there. Like, we had to really lean into the fact that, like, to build something that's engaging, like, it needs to be somewhat human and it needs to be just not a chatbot. Like, that was sort of, like, what we need to diverge from. It's like, you know, most chatbots will just narrate the same kind of answer, like, given the same sources, for the most part, which is ridiculous. So, yeah, there's, like, experimentation there under the hood, like, with the model to, like, make sure that it's spitting out, like, different takes and different personas and different, sort of, prompting each other is, like, a good analogy, I guess.Swyx [00:18:00]: Yeah, I think Steven Johnson, I think he's on your team. I don't know what his role is. He seems like chief dreamer, writer.Raiza [00:18:08]: Yeah, I mean, I can comment on Steven. So, Steven joined, actually, in the very early days, I think before it was even a fully funded project. And I remember when he joined, I was like, Steven Johnson's going to be on my team? You know, and for folks who don't know him, Steven is a New York Times bestselling author of, like, 14 books. He has a PBS show. He's, like, incredibly smart, just, like, a true, sort of, celebrity by himself. And then he joined Google, and he was like, I want to come here, and I want to build the thing that I've always dreamed of, which is a tool to help me think. I was like, a what? Like, a tool to help you think? I was like, what do you need help with? Like, you seem to be doing great on your own. And, you know, he would describe this to me, and I would watch his flow. And aside from, like, providing a lot of inspiration, to be honest, like, when I watched Steven work, I was like, oh, nobody works like this, right? Like, this is what makes him special. Like, he is such a dedicated, like, researcher and journalist, and he's so thorough, he's so smart. And then I had this realization of, like, maybe Steven is the product. Maybe the work is to take Steven's expertise and bring it to, like, everyday people that could really benefit from this. Like, just watching him work, I was like, oh, I could definitely use, like, a mini-Steven, like, doing work for me. Like, that would make me a better PM. And then I thought very quickly about, like, the adjacent roles that could use sort of this, like, research and analysis tool. And so, aside from being, you know, chief dreamer, Steven also represents, like, a super workflow that I think all of us, like, if we had access to a tool like it, would just inherently, like, make us better.Swyx [00:19:46]: Did you make him express his thoughts while he worked, or you just silently watched him, or how does this work?Raiza [00:19:52]: Oh, now you're making me admit it. But yes, I did just silently watch him.Swyx [00:19:57]: This is a part of the PM toolkit, right? They give user interviews and all that.Raiza [00:20:00]: Yeah, I mean, I did interview him, but I noticed, like, if I interviewed him, it was different than if I just watched him. And I did the same thing with students all the time. Like, I followed a lot of students around. I watched them study. I would ask them, like, oh, how do you feel now, right?Raiza [00:20:15]: Or why did you do that? Like, what made you do that, actually?Raiza [00:20:18]: Or why are you upset about, like, this particular thing? Why are you cranky about this particular topic? And it was very similar, I think, for Steven, especially because he was describing, he was in the middle of writing a book. And he would describe, like, oh, you know, here's how I research things, and here's how I keep my notes. Oh, and here's how I do it. And it was really, he was doing this sort of, like, self-questioning, right? Like, now we talk about, like, chain of, you know, reasoning or thought, reflection.Raiza [00:20:44]: And I was like, oh, he's the OG.Raiza [00:20:46]: Like, I watched him do it in real time. I was like, that's, like, L-O-M right there. And to be able to bring sort of that expertise in a way that was, like, you know, maybe, like, costly inference-wise, but really have, like, that ability inside of a tool that was, like, for starters, free inside of NotebookLM, it was good to learn whether or not people really did find use out of it.Swyx [00:21:05]: So did he just commit to using NotebookLM for everything, or did you just model his existing workflow?Raiza [00:21:12]: Both, right?Raiza [00:21:12]: Like, in the beginning, there was no product for him to use. And so he just kept describing the thing that he wanted. And then eventually, like, we started building the thing. And then I would start watching him use it. One of the things that I love about Steven is he uses the product in ways where it kind of does it, but doesn't quite. Like, he's always using it at, like, the absolute max limit of this thing. But the way that he describes it is so full of promise, where he's like, I can see it going here. And all I have to do is sort of, like, meet him there and sort of pressure test whether or not, you know, everyday people want it. And we just have to build it.Swyx [00:21:47]: I would say OpenAI has a pretty similar person, Andrew Mason, I think his name is. It's very similar, like, just from the writing world and using it as a tool for thought to shape Chachabitty. I don't think that people who use AI tools to their limit are common. I'm looking at my NotebookLM now. I've got two sources. You have a little, like, source limit thing. And my bar is over here, you know, and it stretches across the whole thing. I'm like, did he fill it up?Raiza [00:22:09]: Yes, and he has, like, a higher limit than others, I think. He fills it up.Raiza [00:22:14]: Oh, yeah.Raiza [00:22:14]: Like, I don't think Steven even has a limit, actually.Swyx [00:22:17]: And he has Notes, Google Drive stuff, PDFs, MP3, whatever.Raiza [00:22:22]: Yes, and one of my favorite demos, he just did this recently, is he has actually PDFs of, like, handwritten Marie Curie notes. I see.Swyx [00:22:29]: So you're doing image recognition as well. Yeah, it does support it today.Raiza [00:22:32]: So if you have a PDF that's purely images, it will recognize it.Raiza [00:22:36]: But his demo is just, like, super powerful.Raiza [00:22:37]: He's like, okay, here's Marie Curie's notes. And it's like, here's how I'm using it to analyze it. And I'm using it for, like, this thing that I'm writing.Raiza [00:22:44]: And that's really compelling.Raiza [00:22:45]: It's like the everyday person doesn't think of these applications. And I think even, like, when I listen to Steven's demo, I see the gap. I see how Steven got there, but I don't see how I could without him. And so there's a lot of work still for us to build of, like, hey, how do I bring that magic down to, like, zero work? Because I look at all the steps that he had to take in order to do it, and I'm like, okay, that's product work for us, right? Like, that's just onboarding.Alessio [00:23:09]: And so from an engineering perspective, people come to you and it's like, hey, I need to use this handwritten notes from Marie Curie from hundreds of years ago. How do you think about adding support for, like, data sources and then maybe any fun stories and, like, supporting more esoteric types of inputs?Raiza [00:23:25]: So I think about the product in three ways, right? So there's the sources, the source input. There's, like, the capabilities of, like, what you could do with those sources. And then there's the third space, which is how do you output it into the world? Like, how do you put it back out there? There's a lot of really basic sources that we don't support still, right? I think there's sort of, like, the handwritten notes stuff is one, but even basic things like DocX or, like, PowerPoint, right? Like, these are the things that people, everyday people are like, hey, my professor actually gave me everything in DocX. Can you support that? And then just, like, basic stuff, like images and PDFs combined with text. Like, there's just a really long roadmap for sources that I think we just have to work on.Raiza [00:24:04]: So that's, like, a big piece of it.Raiza [00:24:05]: On the output side, and I think this is, like, one of the most interesting things that we learned really early on, is, sure, there's, like, the Q&A analysis stuff, which is like, hey, when did this thing launch? Okay, you found it in the slide deck. Here's the answer. But most of the time, the reason why people ask those questions is because they're trying to make something new. And so when, actually, when some of those early features leaked, like, a lot of the features we're experimenting with are the output types. And so you can imagine that people care a lot about the resources that they're putting into NotebookLM because they're trying to create something new. So I think equally as important as, like, the source inputs are the outputs that we're helping people to create. And really, like, you know, shortly on the roadmap, we're thinking about how do we help people use NotebookLM to distribute knowledge? And that's, like, one of the most compelling use cases is, like, shared notebooks. It's, like, a way to share knowledge. How do we help people take sources and, like, one-click new documents out of it, right? And I think that's something that people think is, like, oh, yeah, of course, right? Like, one push a document. But what does it mean to do it right? Like, to do it in your style, in your brand, right?Raiza [00:25:08]: To follow your guidelines, stuff like that.Raiza [00:25:09]: So I think there's a lot of work, like, on both sides of that equation.Raiza [00:25:13]: Interesting.Swyx [00:25:13]: Any comments on the engineering side of things?Usama [00:25:16]: So, yeah, like I said, I was mostly working on building the text to audio, which kind of lives as a separate engineering pipeline, almost, that we then put into NotebookLM. But I think there's probably tons of NotebookLM engineering war stories on dealing with sources. And so I don't work too closely with engineers directly. But I think a lot of it does come down to, like, Gemini's native understanding of images really well with the latest generation.Raiza [00:25:39]: Yeah, I think on the engineering and modeling side, I think we are a really good example of a team that's put a product out there, and we're getting a lot of feedback from the users, and we return the data to the modeling team, right? To the extent that we say, hey, actually, you know what people are uploading, but we can't really support super well?Raiza [00:25:56]: Text plus image, right?Raiza [00:25:57]: Especially to the extent that, like, NotebookLM can handle up to 50 sources, 500,000 words each. Like, you're not going to be able to jam all of that into, like, the context window. So how do we do multimodal embeddings with that? There's really, like, a lot of things that we have to solve that are almost there, but not quite there yet.Alessio [00:26:16]: On then turning it into audio, I think one of the best things is it has so many of the human... Does that happen in the text generation that then becomes audio? Or is that a part of, like, the audio model that transforms the text?Usama [00:26:27]: It's a bit of both, I would say. The audio model is definitely trying to mimic, like, certain human intonations and, like, sort of natural, like, breathing and pauses and, like, laughter and things like that. But yeah, in generating, like, the text, we also have to sort of give signals on, like, where those things maybe would make sense.Alessio [00:26:45]: And on the input side, instead of having a transcript versus having the audio, like, can you take some of the emotions out of it, too? If I'm giving, like, for example, when we did the recaps of our podcast, we can either give audio of the pod or we can give a diarized transcription of it. But, like, the transcription doesn't have some of the, you know, voice kind of, like, things.Raiza [00:27:05]: Yeah, yeah.Alessio [00:27:05]: Do you reconstruct that when people upload audio or how does that work?Raiza [00:27:09]: So when you upload audio today, we just transcribe it. So it is quite lossy in the sense that, like, we don't transcribe, like, the emotion from that as a source. But when you do upload a text file and it has a lot of, like, that annotation, I think that there is some ability for it to be reused in, like, the audio output, right? But I think it will still contextualize it in the deep dive format. So I think that's something that's, like, particularly important is, like, hey, today we only have one format.Raiza [00:27:37]: It's deep dive.Raiza [00:27:38]: It's meant to be a pretty general overview and it is pretty peppy.Raiza [00:27:42]: It's just very upbeat.Raiza [00:27:43]: It's very enthusiastic, yeah.Raiza [00:27:45]: Yeah, yeah.Raiza [00:27:45]: Even if you had, like, a sad topic, I think they would find a way to be, like, silver lining, though.Raiza [00:27:50]: Really?Raiza [00:27:51]: Yeah.Raiza [00:27:51]: We're having a good chat.Raiza [00:27:54]: Yeah, that's awesome.Swyx [00:27:54]: One of the ways, many, many, many ways that deep dive went viral is people saying, like, if you want to feel good about yourself, just drop in your LinkedIn. Any other, like, favorite use cases that you saw from people discovering things in social media?Raiza [00:28:08]: I mean, there's so many funny ones and I love the funny ones.Raiza [00:28:11]: I think because I'm always relieved when I watch them. I'm like, haha, that was funny and not scary. It's great.Raiza [00:28:17]: There was another one that was interesting, which was a startup founder putting their landing page and being like, all right, let's test whether or not, like, the value prop is coming through. And I was like, wow, that's right.Raiza [00:28:26]: That's smart.Usama [00:28:27]: Yeah.Raiza [00:28:28]: And then I saw a couple of other people following up on that, too.Raiza [00:28:32]: Yeah.Swyx [00:28:32]: I put my about page in there and, like, yeah, if there are things that I'm not comfortable with, I should remove it. You know, so that it can pick it up. Right.Usama [00:28:39]: I think that the personal hype machine was, like, a pretty viral one. I think, like, people uploaded their dreams and, like, some people, like, keep sort of dream journals and it, like, would sort of comment on those and, like, it was therapeutic. I didn't see those.Raiza [00:28:54]: Those are good. I hear from Googlers all the time, especially because we launched it internally first. And I think we launched it during the, you know, the Q3 sort of, like, check-in cycle. So all Googlers have to write notes about, like, hey, you know, what'd you do in Q3? And what Googlers were doing is they would write, you know, whatever they accomplished in Q3 and then they would create an audio overview. And these people they didn't know would just ping me and be like, wow, I feel really good, like, going into a meeting with my manager.Raiza [00:29:25]: And I was like, good, good, good, good. You really did that, right?Usama [00:29:29]: I think another cool one is just, like, any Wikipedia article. Yeah. Like, you drop it in and it's just, like, suddenly, like, the best sort of summary overview.Raiza [00:29:38]: I think that's what Karpathy did, right? Like, he has now a Spotify channel called Histories of Mysteries, which is basically, like, he just took, like, interesting stuff from Wikipedia and made audio overviews out of it.Swyx [00:29:50]: Yeah, he became a podcaster overnight.Raiza [00:29:52]: Yeah.Raiza [00:29:53]: I'm here for it. I fully support him.Raiza [00:29:55]: I'm racking up the listens for him.Swyx [00:29:58]: Honestly, it's useful even without the audio. You know, I feel like the audio does add an element to it, but I always want, you know, paired audio and text. And it's just amazing to see what people are organically discovering. I feel like it's because you laid the groundwork with NotebookLM and then you came in and added the sort of TTS portion and made it so good, so human, which is weird. Like, it's this engineering process of humans. Oh, one thing I wanted to ask. Do you have evals?Raiza [00:30:23]: Yeah.Swyx [00:30:23]: Yes.Raiza [00:30:24]: What? Potatoes for chefs.Swyx [00:30:27]: What is that? What do you mean, potatoes?Raiza [00:30:29]: Oh, sorry.Raiza [00:30:29]: Sorry. We were joking with this, like, a couple of weeks ago. We were doing, like, side-by-sides. But, like, Raiza sent me the file and it was literally called Potatoes for Chefs. And I was like, you know, my job is really serious, but you have to laugh a little bit. Like, the title of the file is, like, Potatoes for Chefs.Swyx [00:30:47]: Is it like a training document for chefs?Usama [00:30:50]: It's just a side-by-side for, like, two different kind of audio transcripts.Swyx [00:30:54]: The question is really, like, as you iterate, the typical engineering advice is you establish some kind of test or benchmark. You're at, like, 30 percent. You want to get it up to 90, right?Raiza [00:31:05]: Yeah.Swyx [00:31:05]: What does that look like for making something sound human and interesting and voice?Usama [00:31:11]: We have the sort of formal eval process as well. But I think, like, for this particular project, we maybe took a slightly different route to begin with. Like, there was a lot of just within the team listening sessions. A lot of, like, sort of, like... Dogfooding.Raiza [00:31:23]: Yeah.Usama [00:31:23]: Like, I think the bar that we tried to get to before even starting formal evals with raters and everything was much higher than I think other projects would. Like, because that's, as you said, like, the traditional advice, right? Like, get that ASAP. Like, what are you looking to improve on? Whatever benchmark it is. So there was a lot of just, like, critical listening. And I think a lot of making sure that those improvements actually could go into the model. And, like, we're happy with that human element of it. And then eventually we had to obviously distill those down into an eval set. But, like, still there's, like, the team is just, like, a very, very, like, avid user of the product at all stages.Raiza [00:32:02]: I think you just have to be really opinionated.Raiza [00:32:05]: I think that sometimes, if you are, your intuition is just sharper and you can move a lot faster on the product.Raiza [00:32:12]: Because it's like, if you hold that bar high, right?Raiza [00:32:15]: Like, if you think about, like, the iterative cycle, it's like, hey, we could take, like, six months to ship this thing. To get it to, like, mid where we were. Or we could just, like, listen to this and be like, yeah, that's not it, right? And I don't need a rater to tell me that. That's my preference, right? And collectively, like, if I have two other people listen to it, they'll probably agree. And it's just kind of this step of, like, just keep improving it to the point where you're like, okay, now I think this is really impressive. And then, like, do evals, right? And then validate that.Swyx [00:32:43]: Was the sound model done and frozen before you started doing all this? Or are you also saying, hey, we need to improve the sound model as well? Both.Usama [00:32:51]: Yeah, we were making improvements on the audio and just, like, generating the transcript as well. I think another weird thing here was, like, we needed to be entertaining. And that's much harder to quantify than some of the other benchmarks that you can make for, like, you know, Sweebench or get better at this math.Swyx [00:33:10]: Do you just have people rate one to five or, you know, or just thumbs up and down?Usama [00:33:14]: For the formal rater evals, we have sort of like a Likert scale and, like, a bunch of different dimensions there. But we had to sort of break down what makes it entertaining into, like, a bunch of different factors. But I think the team stage of that was more critical. It was like, we need to make sure that, like, what is making it fun and engaging? Like, we dialed that as far as it goes. And while we're making other changes that are necessary, like, obviously, they shouldn't make stuff up or, you know, be insensitive.Raiza [00:33:41]: Hallucinations. Safety.Swyx [00:33:42]: Other safety things.Raiza [00:33:43]: Right.Swyx [00:33:43]: Like a bunch of safety stuff.Raiza [00:33:45]: Yeah, exactly.Usama [00:33:45]: So, like, with all of that and, like, also just, you know, following sort of a coherent narrative and structure is really important. But, like, with all of this, we really had to make sure that that central tenet of being entertaining and engaging and something you actually want to listen to. It just doesn't go away, which takes, like, a lot of just active listening time because you're closest to the prompts, the model and everything.Swyx [00:34:07]: I think sometimes the difficulty is because we're dealing with non-deterministic models, sometimes you just got a bad roll of the dice and it's always on the distribution that you could get something bad. Basically, how many do you, like, do ten runs at a time? And then how do you get rid of the non-determinism?Raiza [00:34:23]: Right.Usama [00:34:23]: Yeah, that's bad luck.Raiza [00:34:25]: Yeah.Swyx [00:34:25]: Yeah.Usama [00:34:26]: I mean, there still will be, like, bad audio overviews. There's, like, a bunch of them that happens. Do you mean for, like, the raider? For raiders, right?Swyx [00:34:34]: Like, what if that one person just got, like, a really bad rating? You actually had a great prompt, you actually had a great model, great weights, whatever. And you just, you had a bad output.Usama [00:34:42]: Like, and that's okay, right?Raiza [00:34:44]: I actually think, like, the way that these are constructed, if you think about, like, the different types of controls that the user has, right? Like, what can the user do today to affect it?Usama [00:34:54]: We push a button.Raiza [00:34:55]: You just push a button.Swyx [00:34:56]: I have tried to prompt engineer by changing the title. Yeah, yeah, yeah.Raiza [00:34:59]: Changing the title, people have found out.Raiza [00:35:02]: Yeah.Raiza [00:35:02]: The title of the notebook, people have found out. You can add show notes, right? You can get them to think, like, the show has changed. Someone changed the language of the output. Changing the language of the output. Like, those are less well-tested because we focused on, like, this one aspect. So it did change the way that we sort of think about quality as well, right? So it's like, quality is on the dimensions of entertainment, of course, like, consistency, groundedness. But in general, does it follow the structure of the deep dive? And I think when we talk about, like, non-determinism, it's like, well, as long as it follows, like, the structure of the deep dive, right? It sort of inherently meets all those other qualities. And so it makes it a little bit easier for us to ship something with confidence to the extent that it's like, I know it's going to make a deep dive. It's going to make a good deep dive. Whether or not the person likes it, I don't know. But as we expand to new formats, as we open up controls, I think that's where it gets really much harder. Even with the show notes, right? Like, people don't know what they're going to get when they do that. And we see that already where it's like, this is going to be a lot harder to validate in terms of quality, where now we'll get a greater distribution. Whereas I don't think we really got, like, varied distribution because of, like, that pre-process that Raiza was talking about. And also because of the way that we'd constrain, like, what were we measuring for? Literally, just like, is it a deep dive?Swyx [00:36:18]: And you determine what a deep dive is. Yeah. Everything needs a PM. Yeah, I have, this is very similar to something I've been thinking about for AI products in general. There's always like a chief tastemaker. And for Notebook LM, it seems like it's a combination of you and Steven.Raiza [00:36:31]: Well, okay.Raiza [00:36:32]: I want to take a step back.Swyx [00:36:33]: And Raiza, I mean, presumably for the voice stuff.Raiza [00:36:35]: Raiza's like the head chef, right? Of, like, deep dive, I think. Potatoes.Raiza [00:36:40]: Of potatoes.Raiza [00:36:41]: And I say this because I think even though we are already a very opinionated team, and Steven, for sure, very opinionated, I think of the audio generations, like, Raiza was the most opinionated, right? And we all, like, would say, like, hey, I remember, like, one of the first ones he sent me.Raiza [00:36:57]: I was like, oh, I feel like they should introduce themselves. I feel like they should say a title. But then, like, we would catch things, like, maybe they shouldn't say their names.Raiza [00:37:04]: Yeah, they don't say their names.Usama [00:37:05]: That was a Steven catch, like, not give them names.Raiza [00:37:08]: So stuff like that is, like, we all injected, like, a little bit of just, like, hey, here's, like, my take on, like, how a podcast should be, right? And I think, like, if you're a person who, like, regularly listens to podcasts, there's probably some collective preference there that's generic enough that you can standardize into, like, the deep dive format. But, yeah, it's the new formats where I think, like, oh, that's the next test. Yeah.Swyx [00:37:30]: I've tried to make a clone, by the way. Of course, everyone did. Yeah. Everyone in AI was like, oh, no, this is so easy. I'll just take a TTS model. Obviously, our models are not as good as yours, but I tried to inject a consistent character backstory, like, age, identity, where they work, where they went to school, what their hobbies are. Then it just, the models try to bring it in too much.Raiza [00:37:49]: Yeah.Swyx [00:37:49]: I don't know if you tried this.Raiza [00:37:51]: Yeah.Swyx [00:37:51]: So then I'm like, okay, like, how do I define a personality? But it doesn't keep coming up every single time. Yeah.Raiza [00:37:58]: I mean, we have, like, a really, really good, like, character designer on our team.Raiza [00:38:02]: What?Swyx [00:38:03]: Like a D&D person?Raiza [00:38:05]: Just to say, like, we, just like we had to be opinionated about the format, we had to be opinionated about who are those two people talking.Raiza [00:38:11]: Okay.Raiza [00:38:12]: Right.Raiza [00:38:12]: And then to the extent that, like, you can design the format, you should be able to design the people as well.Raiza [00:38:18]: Yeah.Swyx [00:38:18]: I would love, like, a, you know, like when you play Baldur's Gate, like, you roll, you roll like 17 on Charisma and like, it's like what race they are. I don't know.Raiza [00:38:27]: I recently, actually, I was just talking about character select screens.Raiza [00:38:30]: Yeah. I was like, I love that, right.Raiza [00:38:32]: And I was like, maybe there's something to be learned there because, like, people have fallen in love with the deep dive as a, as a format, as a technology, but also as just like those two personas.Raiza [00:38:44]: Now, when you hear a deep dive and you've heard them, you're like, I know those two.Raiza [00:38:48]: Right.Raiza [00:38:48]: And people, it's so funny when I, when people are trying to find out their names, like, it's a, it's a worthy task.Raiza [00:38:54]: It's a worthy goal.Raiza [00:38:55]: I know what you're doing. But the next step here is to sort of introduce, like, is this like what people want?Raiza [00:39:00]: People want to sort of edit the personas or do they just want more of them?Swyx [00:39:04]: I'm sure you're getting a lot of opinions and they all, they all conflict with each other. Before we move on, I have to ask, because we're kind of on this topic. How do you make audio engaging? Because it's useful, not just for deep dive, but also for us as podcasters. What is, what does engaging mean? If you could break it down for us, that'd be great.Usama [00:39:22]: I mean, I can try. Like, don't, don't claim to be an expert at all.Swyx [00:39:26]: So I'll give you some, like variation in tone and speed. You know, there's this sort of writing advice where, you know, this sentence is five words. This sentence is three, that kind of advice where you, where you vary things, you have excitement, you have laughter, all that stuff. But I'd be curious how else you break down.Usama [00:39:42]: So there's the basics, like obviously structure that can't be meandering, right? Like there needs to be sort of a, an ultimate goal that the voices are trying to get to, human or artificial. I think one thing we find often is if there's just too much agreement between people, like that's not fun to listen to. So there needs to be some sort of tension and build up, you know, withholding information. For example, like as you listen to a story unfold, like you're going to learn more and more about it. And audio that maybe becomes even more important because like you actually don't have the ability to just like skim to the end of something. You're driving or something like you're going to be hooked because like there's, and that's how like, that's how a lot of podcasts work. Like maybe not interviews necessarily, but a lot of true crime, a lot of entertainment in general. There's just like a gradual unrolling of information. And that also like sort of goes back to the content transformation aspect of it. Like maybe you are going from, let's say the Wikipedia article of like one of the History of Mysteries, maybe episodes. Like the Wikipedia article is going to state out the information very differently. It's like, here's what happened would probably be in the very first paragraph. And one approach we could have done is like maybe a person's just narrating that thing. And maybe that would work for like a certain audience. Or I guess that's how I would picture like a standard history lesson to unfold. But like, because we're trying to put it in this two-person dialogue format, like there, we inject like the fact that, you know, there's, you don't give everything at first. And then you set up like differing opinions of the same topic or the same, like maybe you seize on a topic and go deeper into it and then try to bring yourself back out of it and go back to the main narrative. So that's, that's mostly from like the setting up the script perspective. And then the audio, I was saying earlier, it's trying to be as close to just human speech as possible. I think was the, what we found success with so far.Raiza [00:41:40]: Yeah. Like with interjections, right?Raiza [00:41:41]: Like I think like when you listen to two people talk, there's a lot of like, yeah, yeah, right. And then there's like a lot of like that questioning, like, oh yeah, really?Raiza [00:41:49]: What did you think?Swyx [00:41:50]: I noticed that. That's great.Raiza [00:41:52]: Totally.Usama [00:41:54]: Exactly.Swyx [00:41:55]: My question is, do you pull in speech experts to do this? Or did you just come up with it yourselves? You can be like, okay, talk to a whole bunch of fiction writers to, to make things engaging or comedy writers or whatever, stand up comedy, right? They have to make audio engaging, but audio as well. Like there's professional fields of studying where people do this for a living, but us as AI engineers are just making this up as we go.Raiza [00:42:19]: I mean, it's a great idea, but you definitely didn't.Raiza [00:42:22]: Yeah.Swyx [00:42:24]: My guess is you didn't.Raiza [00:42:25]: Yeah.Swyx [00:42:26]: There's a, there's a certain field of authority that people have. They're like, oh, like you can't do this because you don't have any experience like making engaging audio. But that's what you literally did.Raiza [00:42:35]: Right.Usama [00:42:35]: I mean, I was literally chatting with someone at Google earlier today about how some people think that like you need a linguistics person in the room for like making a good chatbot. But that's not actually true because like this person went to school for linguistics. And according to him, he's an engineer now. According to him, like most of his classmates were not actually good at language. Like they knew how to analyze language and like sort of the mathematical patterns and rhythms and language. But that doesn't necessarily mean they were going to be eloquent at like while speaking or writing. So I think, yeah, a lot of we haven't invested in specialists in audio format yet, but maybe that would.Raiza [00:43:13]: I think it's like super interesting because I think there is like a very human question of like what makes something interesting. And there's like a very deep question of like what is it, right? Like what is the quality that we are all looking for? Is it does somebody have to be funny? Does something have to be entertaining? Does something have to be straight to the point? And I think when you try to distill that, this is the interesting thing I think about our experiment, about this particular launch is first, we only launched one format. And so we sort of had to squeeze everything we believed about what an interesting thing is into one package. And as a result of it, I think we learned it's like, hey, interacting with a chatbot is sort of novel at first, but it's not interesting, right? It's like humans are what makes interacting with chatbots interesting.Raiza [00:43:59]: It's like, ha ha ha, I'm going to try to trick it. It's like, that's interesting.Raiza [00:44:02]: Spell strawberry, right?Raiza [00:44:04]: This is like the fun that like people have with it. But like that's not the LLM being interesting.Raiza [00:44:08]: That's you just like kind of giving it your own flavor. But it's like, what does it mean to sort of flip it on its head and say, no, you be interesting now, right? Like you give the chatbot the opportunity to do it. And this is not a chatbot per se. It is like just the audio. And it's like the texture, I think, that really brings it to life. And it's like the things that we've described here, which is like, okay, now I have to like lead you down a path of information about like this commercialization deck.Raiza [00:44:36]: It's like, how do you do that?Raiza [00:44:38]: To be able to successfully do it, I do think that you need experts. I think we'll engage with experts like down the road, but I think it will have to be in the context of, well, what's the next thing we're building, right? It's like, what am I trying to change here? What do I fundamentally believe needs to be improved? And I think there's still like a lot more studying that we have to do in terms of like, well, what are people actually using this for? And we're just in such early days. Like it hasn't even been a month. Two, three weeks.Usama [00:45:05]: Three weeks.Raiza [00:45:06]: Yeah, yeah.Usama [00:45:07]: I think one other element to that is the fact that you're bringing your own sources to it. Like it's your stuff. Like, you know this somewhat well, or you care to know about this. So like that, I think, changed the equation on its head as well. It's like your sources and someone's telling you about it. So like you care about how that dynamic is, but you just care for it to be good enough to be entertaining. Because ultimately they're talking about your mortgage deed or whatever.Swyx [00:45:33]: So it's interesting just from the topic itself. Even taking out all the agreements and the hiding of the slow reveal. I mean, there's a baseline, maybe.Usama [00:45:42]: Like if it was like too drab. Like if someone was reading it off, like, you know, that's like the absolute worst.Raiza [00:45:46]: But like...Swyx [00:45:47]: Do you prompt for humor? That's a tough one, right?Raiza [00:45:51]: I think it's more of a generic way to bring humor out if possible. I think humor is actually one of the hardest things. Yeah.Raiza [00:46:00]: But I don't know if you saw...Raiza [00:46:00]: That is AGI.Swyx [00:46:01]: Humor is AGI.Raiza [00:46:02]: Yeah, but did you see the chicken one?Raiza [00:46:03]: No.Raiza [00:46:04]: Okay. If you haven't heard it... We'll splice it in here.Swyx [00:46:06]: Okay.Raiza [00:46:07]: Yeah.Raiza [00:46:07]: There is a video on Threads. I think it was by Martino Wong. And it's a PDF.Raiza [00:46:16]: Welcome to your deep dive for today. Oh, yeah. Get ready for a fun one. Buckle up. Because we are diving into... Chicken, chicken, chicken. Chicken, chicken. You got that right. By Doug Zonker. Now. And yes, you heard that title correctly. Titles. Our listener today submitted this paper. Yeah, they're going to need our help. And I can totally see why. Absolutely. It's dense. It's baffling. It's a lot. And it's packed with more chicken than a KFC buffet. What? That's hilarious.Raiza [00:46:48]: That's so funny. So it's like stuff like that, that's like truly delightful, truly surprising.Raiza [00:46:53]: But it's like we didn't tell it to be funny.Usama [00:46:55]: Humor is contextual also. Like super contextual is what we're realizing. So we're not prompting for humor, but we're prompting for maybe a lot of other things that are bringing out that humor.Alessio [00:47:04]: I think the thing about ad-generated content, if we look at YouTube, like we do videos on YouTube and it's like, you know, a lot of people like screaming in the thumbnails to get clicks. There's like everybody, there's kind of like a meta of like what you need to do to get clicks. But I think in your product, there's no actual creator on the other side investing the time. So you can actually generate a type of content that is maybe not universally appealing, you know, at a much, yeah, exactly. I think that's the most interesting thing. It's like, well, is there a way for like, take Mr.Raiza [00:47:36]: Beast, right?Alessio [00:47:36]: It's like Mr. Beast optimizes videos to reach the biggest audience and like the most clicks. But what if every video could be kind of like regenerated to be closer to your taste, you know, when you watch it?Raiza [00:47:48]: I think that's kind of the promise of AI that I think we are just like touching on, which is, I think every time I've gotten information from somebody, they have delivered it to me in their preferred method, right?Raiza [00:47:59]: Like if somebody gives me a PDF, it's a PDF.Raiza [00:48:01]: Somebody gives me a hundred slide deck, that is the format in which I'm going to read it. But I think we are now living in the era where transformations are really possible, which is, look, like I don't want to read your hundred slide deck, but I'll listen to a 16 minute audio overview on the drive home. And that, that I think is, is really novel. And that is, is paving the way in a way that like maybe we wanted, but didn'tRaiza [00:48:24]: expect.Raiza [00:48:25]: Where I also think you're listening to a lot of content that normally wouldn't have had content made about it. Like I watched this TikTok where this woman uploaded her diary from 2004.Raiza [00:48:36]: For sure, right?Raiza [00:48:36]: Like nobody was goin

Welcome back to another enlightening episode of *Mick Unplugged*! In today's session, our host Mick Hunt sits down with the remarkable Marquel Russell. Known for his unparalleled ability to simplify complex business concepts and make them accessible for entrepreneurs and business leaders alike, Marquel shares his inspirational journey from high school dropout to a globe-trotting entrepreneur and founder of Client Attraction University. We'll uncover his deeper purpose and how he views his work as a spiritual mission, dive into his impactful strategies that have helped millions, and explore the concept of intrapreneurship—highlighting how entrepreneurial skills can thrive within existing companies. Tune in as Marquel discusses everything from his background and transition from drug dealing to legal and successful ventures to his innovative approaches in marketing and business scaling. Whether you're an aspiring business owner, a seasoned entrepreneur, or looking to make a mark within your organization, this episode is packed with invaluable insights and motivational stories that you won't want to miss. Stay tuned to *Mick Unplugged*! Takeaways: Being available and visible as a leader is a mark of true leadership. Retargeting is a powerful strategy that allows businesses to reach potential customers who have shown interest but haven't taken action. Meaningful work and aligning goals with values are key to creating a fulfilling life. Sound Bites "You can have as many leads as you want, but if they're not moving through your process, you just have a very heavy top end and at some point that top end falls down “To be available, to be visible for those that are striving to get to where you are, to me is a mark of true leadership." Connect and DiscoverLinkedIn:  linkedin.com/in/marquel-russell Instagram:  Instagram.com/marquelrussell Facebook:  facebook.com/ceomarquelrussell Website: scalemadeeasy.com Podcast: Strategic Scale with Marquel Russell        See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Comment prendre ses marques en tant qu'enseignante quand on a connu une autre langue, une autre culture, une autre scolarité ? C'est l'histoire de Maria Valeria Schirru qui a fait sa première rentrée en tant que professeure d'italien contractuelle. Dans cet épisode, elle nous partage le bilan de son année devant les élèves et son regard sur le système éducatif français. Les épisodes Extra classe de la playlist Débuter dans l'enseignement peuvent vous intéresser.Premiers pas dans le métier d'enseignant, des conseils pratiques et des formations sur Réseau Canopé.Téléchargez la transcription [DOCX].Retrouvez-nous sur : Extraclasse.reseau-canope.fr Apple Podcasts Spotify Deezer Google Podcasts Podcast AddictExtra classe, des podcasts produits par Réseau Canopé. Émission préparée et réalisée par : Myriam Jacquet Directrice de publication : Marie-Caroline Missir Coordination et production : Hervé Turri, Luc Taramini, Magali Devance Mixage : Mateo Piret Secrétariat de rédaction : Quentin Ganteil Voix additionnelle : Magali Devance Contactez-nous sur : contact@reseau-canope.fr © Réseau Canopé, 2024Hébergé par Ausha. Visitez ausha.co/politique-de-confidentialite pour plus d'informations.

The proposed intervenors seek to intervene in the case and request the disclosure of specific filings to the litigants and their counsel in the related action. Their main arguments are grounded in the principles of legal transparency and the need to protect their interests which may be affected by the outcome of the current litigation.Key Points:Legal Basis for Intervention:Rule 24(a) - Intervention as of Right: The intervenors argue they have a right to intervene based on their substantial legal interests that may be impaired by the disposition of the case.Rule 24(b) - Permissive Intervention: Alternatively, they seek permissive intervention on the grounds that their claim or defense shares a common question of law or fact with the main action.Interests of the Intervenors:The intervenors have a significant interest in the subject matter of the litigation that is not adequately represented by the existing parties.Their involvement is crucial for protecting these interests and ensuring a fair and comprehensive resolution of the issues at hand.Disclosure of Certain Filings:The intervenors request the court to order the disclosure of specific filings that are relevant to their interests and necessary for them to participate meaningfully in the litigation.The filings sought for disclosure contain information that may directly impact the intervenors' legal and factual assertions.Precedent and Legal Standards:The memorandum cites several precedents and legal standards supporting the notion that intervention and disclosure are appropriate under the circumstances.It highlights that the courts have a history of allowing intervention and disclosure when it serves the interests of justice and transparency.Public Interest and Transparency:The motion emphasizes the public interest in ensuring transparency and accountability in judicial proceedings.It argues that allowing intervention and disclosure will enhance the integrity of the judicial process and the equitable administration of justice.Practical Considerations:The intervenors assert that their participation will not unduly delay or prejudice the adjudication of the original parties' rights.They propose a reasonable framework for their involvement that aligns with the procedural and substantive requirements of the court.The memorandum concludes by urging the court to grant the motion to intervene and to order the disclosure of the relevant filings, asserting that doing so will protect the intervenors' interests, promote transparency, and serve the interests of justice.to contact me:bobbycapucci@protonmail.comsource:Microsoft Word - 00257414.DOCX (courtlistener.com)

The proposed intervenors seek to intervene in the case and request the disclosure of specific filings to the litigants and their counsel in the related action. Their main arguments are grounded in the principles of legal transparency and the need to protect their interests which may be affected by the outcome of the current litigation.Key Points:Legal Basis for Intervention:Rule 24(a) - Intervention as of Right: The intervenors argue they have a right to intervene based on their substantial legal interests that may be impaired by the disposition of the case.Rule 24(b) - Permissive Intervention: Alternatively, they seek permissive intervention on the grounds that their claim or defense shares a common question of law or fact with the main action.Interests of the Intervenors:The intervenors have a significant interest in the subject matter of the litigation that is not adequately represented by the existing parties.Their involvement is crucial for protecting these interests and ensuring a fair and comprehensive resolution of the issues at hand.Disclosure of Certain Filings:The intervenors request the court to order the disclosure of specific filings that are relevant to their interests and necessary for them to participate meaningfully in the litigation.The filings sought for disclosure contain information that may directly impact the intervenors' legal and factual assertions.Precedent and Legal Standards:The memorandum cites several precedents and legal standards supporting the notion that intervention and disclosure are appropriate under the circumstances.It highlights that the courts have a history of allowing intervention and disclosure when it serves the interests of justice and transparency.Public Interest and Transparency:The motion emphasizes the public interest in ensuring transparency and accountability in judicial proceedings.It argues that allowing intervention and disclosure will enhance the integrity of the judicial process and the equitable administration of justice.Practical Considerations:The intervenors assert that their participation will not unduly delay or prejudice the adjudication of the original parties' rights.They propose a reasonable framework for their involvement that aligns with the procedural and substantive requirements of the court.The memorandum concludes by urging the court to grant the motion to intervene and to order the disclosure of the relevant filings, asserting that doing so will protect the intervenors' interests, promote transparency, and serve the interests of justice.(commercial at 9:51)to contact me:bobbycapucci@protonmail.comsource:Microsoft Word - 00257414.DOCX (courtlistener.com)

The proposed intervenors seek to intervene in the case and request the disclosure of specific filings to the litigants and their counsel in the related action. Their main arguments are grounded in the principles of legal transparency and the need to protect their interests which may be affected by the outcome of the current litigation.Key Points:Legal Basis for Intervention:Rule 24(a) - Intervention as of Right: The intervenors argue they have a right to intervene based on their substantial legal interests that may be impaired by the disposition of the case.Rule 24(b) - Permissive Intervention: Alternatively, they seek permissive intervention on the grounds that their claim or defense shares a common question of law or fact with the main action.Interests of the Intervenors:The intervenors have a significant interest in the subject matter of the litigation that is not adequately represented by the existing parties.Their involvement is crucial for protecting these interests and ensuring a fair and comprehensive resolution of the issues at hand.Disclosure of Certain Filings:The intervenors request the court to order the disclosure of specific filings that are relevant to their interests and necessary for them to participate meaningfully in the litigation.The filings sought for disclosure contain information that may directly impact the intervenors' legal and factual assertions.Precedent and Legal Standards:The memorandum cites several precedents and legal standards supporting the notion that intervention and disclosure are appropriate under the circumstances.It highlights that the courts have a history of allowing intervention and disclosure when it serves the interests of justice and transparency.Public Interest and Transparency:The motion emphasizes the public interest in ensuring transparency and accountability in judicial proceedings.It argues that allowing intervention and disclosure will enhance the integrity of the judicial process and the equitable administration of justice.Practical Considerations:The intervenors assert that their participation will not unduly delay or prejudice the adjudication of the original parties' rights.They propose a reasonable framework for their involvement that aligns with the procedural and substantive requirements of the court.The memorandum concludes by urging the court to grant the motion to intervene and to order the disclosure of the relevant filings, asserting that doing so will protect the intervenors' interests, promote transparency, and serve the interests of justice.to contact me:bobbycapucci@protonmail.comsource:Microsoft Word - 00257414.DOCX (courtlistener.com)Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/the-epstein-chronicles--5003294/support.

Vous êtes enseignant et vous cherchez à donner une dimension européenne à vos projets pédagogiques ? Découvrez le dispositif eTwinning qui permet de mettre en place des projets collaboratifs avec des classes de toute l'Europe. À l'occasion de la dernière conférence nationale qui s'est tenue début juin 2024, nous avons réuni à notre micro des ambassadeurs eTwinning – enseignants, CPE, inspectrice – déjà engagés dans l'aventure. On espère que cette émission vous donnera envie de vous lancer à votre tour. Bel été ! Découvrez des portraits d'eTwinneurs sur la plateforme eTwinning.European School Education Platform, le point de rencontre de tous les acteurs du secteur de l'éducation scolaire.Ces épisodes Extra classe peuvent vous intéresser : eTwinning, faire tomber les barrières - Les Énergies scolaires #9 du 2 juin 2021.Grandir avec Erasmus+ - Les Énergies scolaires #34 du 12 janvier 2022.Téléchargez la transcription [DOCX].Chapitres 03:04 - Des projets dans le premier degré 08:53 - Des projets en lycée pro 20:30 - Le Bureau d'assistance national vous répond 23:19 - eTwinning, c'est pas que des profs !Chaque dernier mercredi du mois, découvrez un nouvel épisode de « Parlons pratiques ! » sur votre plateforme de podcasts préférée. Suivez-nous, écoutez et partagez…Retrouvez-nous sur : Extraclasse.reseau-canope.fr Apple Podcasts Spotify Deezer Google Podcasts Podcast AddictExtra classe, des podcasts produits par Réseau Canopé. Émission préparée et animée par : Hélène Audard et Régis Forgione Réalisée par : Youenn Chevalier Directrice de publication : Marie-Caroline Missir Coordination et production : Hervé Turri, Luc Taramini, Magali Devance Montage et mixage : Simon Gattegno Secrétariat de rédaction : Delphine Kopff-Hausser Contactez-nous sur : contact@reseau-canope.fr © Réseau Canopé, 2024Hébergé par Ausha. Visitez ausha.co/politique-de-confidentialite pour plus d'informations.

Comment agir concrètement avec le label Génération 2024 ? C'est le projet d'une classe de 1re AGOrA à Paris qui s'est lancée dans la préparation d'évènements sportifs avec Nicolas Fillière, leur professeur d'éco-gestion, et la coopération des professeurs d'EPS. Dans cet épisode, nous suivons l'organisation d'une course par un groupe d'élèves volontaires, en partenariat avec Action contre la faim. L'organisation d'un évènement, ça s'apprend ! Les épisodes de la playlist Extra classe Enseigner avec le sport peuvent vous intéresser.Téléchargez la transcription [DOCX].Retrouvez-nous sur : Extraclasse.reseau-canope.fr Apple Podcasts Spotify Deezer Google Podcasts Podcast AddictExtra classe, des podcasts produits par Réseau Canopé. Émission préparée et réalisée par : Hélène Carbonnel Directrice de publication : Marie-Caroline Missir Coordination et production : Hervé Turri, Luc Taramini, Magali Devance Mixage : Laurent Gaillard Secrétariat de rédaction : Aurélien Brault Voix additionnelle : Magali Devance Contactez-nous sur : contact@reseau-canope.fr © Réseau Canopé, 2024Hébergé par Ausha. Visitez ausha.co/politique-de-confidentialite pour plus d'informations.

Comment lutter contre l'éco-anxiété chez les adolescents ? C'est l'histoire d'un collège qui se transforme en station de ski ou qui s'invite sur la banquise du pôle Nord pour sensibiliser, de façon ludique, les élèves aux effets du réchauffement climatique. Dans cet épisode, Florentin Dubail, professeur de physique-chimie, raconte comment ces actions sont mises en place avec la complicité de ses collègues et l'enthousiasme des élèves. Un projet pédagogique plein d'optimisme…Avec le soutien de GMF. Écoutez ou réécoutez les épisodes Extra classe de la playlist Éduquer à la transition écologique et sociale.Lutter contre l'éco-anxiété, interview, 3 m 28 sec, Réseau Canopé, 2023. Parole d'expert de Nathanaël Wallenhorst, en ligne sur Canotech.Le site du concours CUBE.S, agir positivement pour le climat.Téléchargez la transcription [DOCX]. Retrouvez-nous sur : Extraclasse.reseau-canope.fr Apple Podcasts Spotify Deezer Google Podcasts Podcast AddictExtra classe, des podcasts produits par Réseau Canopé. Émission préparée et réalisée par : Aurélie Dulin Directrice de publication : Marie-Caroline Missir Coordination et production : Hervé Turri, Luc Taramini, Magali Devance Mixage : Myriam Naciri Secrétariat de rédaction : Quentin Ganteil Voix additionnelle : Magali Devance Contactez-nous sur : contact@reseau-canope.fr © Réseau Canopé, 2024Hébergé par Ausha. Visitez ausha.co/politique-de-confidentialite pour plus d'informations.

Comment relancer sa motivation après 20 ans à enseigner en maternelle ? C'est l'histoire d'Emmanuelle Pillot, une enseignante qui a passé une année à Munich dans un kindergarten (jardin d'enfants) à la faveur d'un programme d'échange d'enseignants français et allemands. Dans cet épisode, elle nous raconte en quoi cette expérience lui a permis de faire évoluer ses pratiques et de changer de regard sur un métier qui la passionne encore et toujours…La playlist Extra classe Enseigner en maternelle peut vous intéresser.J'enseigne en maternelle, des formations, ressources, dossiers et idées d'activités, Réseau Canopé.Téléchargez la transcription [DOCX].Retrouvez-nous sur : Extraclasse.reseau-canope.fr Apple Podcasts Spotify Deezer Google Podcasts Podcast AddictExtra classe, des podcasts produits par Réseau Canopé. Émission préparée et réalisée par : Rémy Massé Directrice de publication : Marie-Caroline Missir Coordination et production : Hervé Turri, Luc Taramini, Magali Devance Enregistrement et mixage : Laurent Gaillard Secrétariat de rédaction : Quentin Ganteil Voix additionnelle : Magali Devance Contactez-nous sur : contact@reseau-canope.fr © Réseau Canopé, 2024Hébergé par Ausha. Visitez ausha.co/politique-de-confidentialite pour plus d'informations.

Si elle fait partie des programmes, l'éducation à la vie affective, relationnelle et à la sexualité (EVARS) est encore peu abordée. C'est pourtant un enjeu de santé publique, mais aussi d'égalité dans les relations entre les filles et les garçons, de lutte contre les violences et les discriminations, et plus largement de bien-être pour favoriser les apprentissages de toutes et tous. Et cela concerne toutes les disciplines !En quoi est-ce le rôle de l'École ? Que prévoient les textes exactement ? Comment lever les obstacles à la mise en œuvre des séances d'EVARS à l'École ? Sur ce sujet sensible, s'il en est, Guillaume Tonussi, chargé de mission académique et formateur EAS, Delphine Rahib, chargée d'étude en santé sexuelle à Santé publique France, et Lolita Rivé, professeure des écoles et créatrice de podcasts, nous apportent leurs regards croisés pour un épisode qui se veut pédagogique et pragmatique. Ces épisodes Extra classe peuvent vous intéresser : Changer de regard et agir contre les phobies LGBT - Parlons pratiques ! #2 du 28 avril 2021.La sexualité, parlons-en ! - Les Énergies scolaires #103 du 20 septembre 2023.Les références des invités :  Parcours M@gistère « Éduquer à la sexualité à l'école primaire », 2024.La plateforme Onsexprime.Le site du Crips Île-de-France, le Centre régional d'information et de prévention du sida et pour la santé des jeunes.Le Loup, projet de prévention et de lutte contre l'inceste, par Mai Lan Chapiron.Laurence Communal et Christophe Guigné, Éducation à la sexualité au collège et au lycée, éditions Chronique sociale, 2021. Dr Kpote, Pubère la vie : à l'école des genres, Éditions du Détour, 2023.Téléchargez la transcription [DOCX].Chapitres 04:02 - Pourquoi il faut vraiment y aller 20:36 - Allez, on se lance ! 36:35 - Oui, mais pas tout seuls 48:21 - InspirationsChaque dernier mercredi du mois, découvrez un nouvel épisode de « Parlons pratiques ! » sur votre plateforme de podcasts préférée. Suivez-nous, écoutez et partagez…Retrouvez-nous sur : Extraclasse.reseau-canope.fr Apple Podcasts Spotify Deezer Google Podcasts Podcast AddictExtra classe, des podcasts produits par Réseau Canopé. Émission préparée et animée par : Hélène Audard et Régis Forgione Réalisée par : Simon Gattegno avec l'appui technique d'Hélène Carbonnel et de Nadjim Mioudi Directrice de publication : Marie-Caroline Missir Coordination et production : Hervé Turri, Luc Taramini, Magali Devance Mixage : Simon Gattegno Stagiaire : Jade Patrice-Martin Secrétariat de rédaction : Delphine Kopff-Hausser Extraits issus des épisodes 1, 2 et 3 du podcast « C'est quoi l'amour, maîtresse ? », hors-série signé Lolita Rivé pour « Le Cœur sur la table », avec l'aimable autorisation de Binge Audio. Contactez-nous sur : contact@reseau-canope.fr © Réseau Canopé, 2024

The politicians are at it again: Senate Majority Leader Chuck Schumer's series of industry-centric forums last year have birthed a "roadmap" for future legislation. Emily and Alex take a deep dive on this report, and conclude that the time spent writing it could have instead been spent...making useful laws.References:Driving US Innovation in Artificial Intelligence: A Roadmap for Artificial Intelligence Policy in the United StatesTech Policy Press: US Senate AI Insight Forum TrackerPut the Public in the Driver's Seat: Shadow Report to the US Senate AI Policy RoadmapEmily's opening remarks on “AI in the Workplace: New Crisis or Longstanding Challenge” virtual roundtableFresh AI Hell:Homophobia in Spotify's chatbotStackOverflow in bed with OpenAI, pushing back against resistanceSee also: https://scholar.social/@dingemansemark/112411041956275543OpenAI making copyright claim against ChatGPT subredditIntroducing synthetic text for police reportsChatGPT-like "AI" assistant ... as a car feature?Scarlett Johansson vs. OpenAIYou can check out future livestreams at https://twitch.tv/DAIR_Institute.Subscribe to our newsletter via Buttondown. Follow us!Emily Twitter: https://twitter.com/EmilyMBender Mastodon: https://dair-community.social/@EmilyMBender Bluesky: https://bsky.app/profile/emilymbender.bsky.social Alex Twitter: https://twitter.com/@alexhanna Mastodon: https://dair-community.social/@alex Bluesky: https://bsky.app/profile/alexhanna.bsky.social Music by Toby Menon.Artwork by Naomi Pleasure-Park. Production by Christie Taylor.

Quand on parle, il faut avoir des choses à dire ! C'est le maître-mot de Christophe Perrin, professeur de lettres dans un collège à Villefranche-sur-Saône. Depuis plusieurs années, il coanime un atelier dédié aux arts oratoires en compagnie d'élèves volontaires. Et comme chaque année, le groupe est invité à officier au sein d'un cimetière historique hors du commun : le tata sénégalais de Chasselay, près de Lyon, une nécropole érigée en hommage aux tirailleurs africains massacrés le 20 juin 1940 par les Allemands lors de la Seconde Guerre mondiale.Cette commémoration émouvante offre l'occasion à Christophe et à ses collègues de mettre en place un projet d'écriture d'un texte à déclamer qui va bien au-delà d'un renforcement des compétences écrites et orales car c'est également un vivier de construction de la citoyenneté et des valeurs de la République.Un épisode à découvrir le casque sur les oreilles pour pleinement profiter du son binaural !Avec le soutien de la MGEN.Cérémonie à la mémoire des tirailleurs massacrés en 1940 au tata de Chasselay, une ressource mise à disposition sur le site de Lumni.Ces épisodes Extra classe sur le travail de l'oral peuvent vous intéresser : S'ouvrir au monde par le théâtre - Les Énergies scolaires #13 du 7 juillet 2021.Les Olympes de la parole - Les Énergies scolaires #48 du 18 mai 2022.Travailler l'oral avec le podcast - Les Énergies scolaires #75 du 11 janvier 2023.Téléchargez la transcription [DOCX].Retrouvez-nous sur : Extraclasse.reseau-canope.fr Apple Podcasts Spotify Deezer Google Podcasts Podcast AddictExtra classe, des podcasts produits par Réseau Canopé. Émission préparée et réalisée par : Myriam Jacquet Directrice de publication : Marie-Caroline Missir Coordination et production : Hervé Turri, Luc Taramini, Magali Devance Enregistrement et mixage : Simon Gattegno Secrétariat de rédaction : Quentin Ganteil Voix additionnelle : Magali Devance Contactez-nous sur : contact@reseau-canope.fr © Réseau Canopé, 2024Hébergé par Ausha. Visitez ausha.co/politique-de-confidentialite pour plus d'informations.

Quand on a trois ans, qu'on est haut comme trois pommes et que l'on regarde tous ces grands enfants qui jouent de l'autre côté de la rue, on doit sûrement se demander : « C'est quoi l'école ? Qu'est-ce qu'il s'y passe ? » Corinne Roche est enseignante dans une toute petite école de deux classes au nord de Roanne (42) et elle s'est justement penchée sur la question. Elle a donc mis en place un dispositif de liaison crèche-maternelle. L'idée : créer un pallier tout en douceur pour les tout-petits qui vont entrer en maternelle l'année suivante. Les enfants sont donc conviés à rencontrer les élèves et l'enseignante tout au long de l'année à travers des activités en commun. Corinne nous raconte ce qui se passe alors pour ces tout-petits qui vont enfin découvrir ce qu'est l'école.Écoutez ou réécoutez les épisodes Extra classe de la playlist Enseigner en maternelle. J'enseigne en maternelle, des formations, ressources, dossiers, idées d'activités pour enseigner en maternelle, sur le site de Réseau Canopé.Téléchargez la transcription [DOCX].Retrouvez-nous sur : Extraclasse.reseau-canope.fr Apple Podcasts Spotify Deezer Google Podcasts Podcast AddictExtra classe, des podcasts produits par Réseau Canopé. Émission préparée et réalisée par : Myriam Jacquet Directrice de publication : Marie-Caroline Missir Coordination et production : Hervé Turri, Luc Taramini, Magali Devance Enregistrement : Laurent Gaillard Montage et mixage : Simon Gattegno Secrétariat de rédaction : Blaise Royer Voix additionnelle : Magali Devance Contactez-nous sur : contact@reseau-canope.fr © Réseau Canopé, 2024Hébergé par Ausha. Visitez ausha.co/politique-de-confidentialite pour plus d'informations.

Comment l'intégration du projet "Fablab à l'école" au cœur de l'espace scolaire s'inscrit comme le prolongement naturel du projet d'école ? Depuis 20 ans, Carole Derouet cherche à rendre ses élèves de primaire acteurs de leurs apprentissages. Avec ses collègues, elle renouvelle chaque année un projet fédérant tous les niveaux autour de thématiques comme « Se connaître soi-même », « Exprimer ses émotions » ou « L'imaginaire », qui font la part belle aux activités manuelles, donnent du sens aux apprentissages et impliquent les familles. Les précédentes éditions ont abouti à la création de valises littéraires autour des œuvres étudiées, et qui circulent de famille en famille. Alors quand Carole découvre le principe de fablab, elle y voit immédiatement un formidable outil pour stimuler la créativité des élèves, et leur faire créer des jeux et des films en stop motion pour enrichir les valises. Cet épisode Extra classe peut vous intéresser : Un FabLab à l'école - Parlons pratiques ! #10 du 29 décembre 2021.Fab Lab à l'école, dispositif d'ambition nationale porté par Universcience, en partenariat avec Réseau Canopé.Téléchargez la transcription [DOCX].Retrouvez-nous sur : Extraclasse.reseau-canope.fr Apple Podcasts Spotify Deezer Google Podcasts Podcast AddictExtra classe, des podcasts produits par Réseau Canopé. Émission préparée et réalisée par : Éric Guichaoua Directrice de publication : Marie-Caroline Missir Coordination et production : Hervé Turri, Luc Taramini, Magali Devance Mixage : Laurent Gaillard Secrétariat de rédaction : Quentin Ganteil Voix additionnelle : Magali Devance Contactez-nous sur : contact@reseau-canope.fr © Réseau Canopé, 2024Hébergé par Ausha. Visitez ausha.co/politique-de-confidentialite pour plus d'informations.

Il y a un peu plus d'un an, les intelligences artificielles génératives font une entrée fracassante sur le devant de la scène, notamment dans le monde de l'éducation. Un premier « Parlons pratiques ! » posait les jalons d'une appropriation de l'IA dans l'École il y a quelques mois, une éternité à l'échelle des avancées de cette technologie, des débats et référentiels en construction. Rendez-vous pour ce nouvel épisode, enregistré à l'édition suisse de Ludovia intitulée « Bienvenue à l'ère de l'(in)intelligence artificielle à l'école ? ». Avec Christophe Batier, Vincent Gürtler, Lyonel Kaufmann et Bijlana Petreska von Ritter-Zahony – chercheurs, formateurs, enseignants –, nous questionnons les avancées récentes et les usages pédagogiques, en mettant l'accent sur l'importance de comprendre le fonctionnement des IA pour mieux les démystifier.La playlist Extra classe Enseigner avec l'IA.La série Canotech L'intelligence artificielle au service de l'éducation.Références des invités : L'intelligence artificielle en classe, site pédagogique de Biljana Petreska von Ritter-Zahony, avec notamment Eleus-IA et le simulateur « Réseaux de neurones ».Wenting Ma, Olusola O. Adesope, John C. Nesbit et Quing Liu, « Intelligent Tutoring Systems and Learning Outcomes: A Meta-Analysis », in Journal of Educational Psychology, juin 2014. Article en anglais sur une méta-analyse des ITS. Projet de Steven Spielberg avec l'USC Shoah Foundation, « Dimensions in testimony ».Pierre-Yves Oudeyer (Inria), vidéo YouTube « Curiosité et méta-cognition : sciences cognitives, IA et éducation », 59 m 11 sec, mars 2024.Kate Crawford, Contre-atlas de l'intelligence artificielle, traduit de l'anglais (Australie) par Laurent Bury, éditions Zulma, 2022. Ali Darvishi, Hassan Khosravi, Shazia Sadiq, Dragan Gasevic et Georges Siemens, « Impact of AI assistance on student agency », in Computers & Education, mars 2024.Inspirations des invités : Giuliano da Empoli, Le Mage du Kremlin, Gallimard, 2022.La communauté IA4Sup.Téléchargez la transcription [DOCX].Chapitres 02:12 - Y'a qu'à comprendre comment ça marche 13:31 - IA, pour apprendre ou tutorer ? 28:27 - Vigilance il y a 40:06 - InspirationsChaque dernier mercredi du mois, découvrez un nouvel épisode de « Parlons pratiques ! » sur votre plateforme de podcasts préférée. Suivez-nous, écoutez et partagez…Retrouvez-nous sur : Extraclasse.reseau-canope.fr Apple Podcasts Spotify Deezer Google Podcasts Podcast AddictExtra classe, des podcasts produits par Réseau Canopé. Émission préparée et animée par : Hélène Audard et Régis Forgione Réalisée par : Simon Gattegno Directrice de publication : Marie-Caroline Missir Coordination et production : Hervé Turri, Luc Taramini, Magali Devance Mixage : Simon Gattegno Secrétariat de rédaction : Delphine Kopff-Hausser Remerciements à Ludovia#CH pour son accueil. Contactez-nous sur : contact@reseau-canope.fr © Réseau Canopé, 2024

La loi du 21 mai 2021 relative à la protection patrimoniale des langues régionales et à leur promotion « conforte l'enseignement des langues régionales tout au long du parcours scolaire des élèves, dans le premier et le second degré. » C'est grâce à elle que Peggy Lefebvre-Defrocourt, professeure-documentaliste dans la Somme, a pu monter une option « enseignement du picard » dans son collège. Après deux ans d'existence, Peggy nous explique en quoi l'un de ses projets culturels axé sur la création d'un jeu de marionnettes – personnages phares de la culture picarde – fédère les élèves autour d'une identité linguistique et régionale un peu oubliée dont ils sont fiers.Cet épisode Extra classe peut vous intéresser : Le bilinguisme précoce, l'exemple du breton - Les Énergies scolaires #29 du 1er décembre 2021.Téléchargez la transcription [DOCX].Retrouvez-nous sur : Extraclasse.reseau-canope.fr Apple Podcasts Spotify Deezer Google Podcasts Podcast AddictExtra classe, des podcasts produits par Réseau Canopé. Émission préparée et réalisée par : Aurélie Dulin Directrice de publication : Marie-Caroline Missir Coordination et production : Hervé Turri, Luc Taramini, Magali Devance Mixage : Laurent Gaillard Secrétariat de rédaction : Aurélien Brault Voix additionnelle : Magali Devance Contactez-nous sur : contact@reseau-canope.fr © Réseau Canopé, 2024Hébergé par Ausha. Visitez ausha.co/politique-de-confidentialite pour plus d'informations.

Rhoanne Gourouvin est professeur d'arts plastiques au collège Bourbon dans l'académie de La Réunion. Avec l'aide du dessinateur Téhem (auteur des BD Tiburce, Zap Collège, Malika Secouss, etc.), il propose à ses élèves d'aborder le harcèlement par la création graphique. Grâce à cette technique, les élèves peuvent raconter et illustrer des histoires sur ce sujet selon le point de vue qu'ils souhaitent. Cet exercice leur permet de réfléchir à la notion de harcèlement, à ses différentes formes, à ses conséquences, voire à ses causes, et de libérer chez certains une parole contenue. Les bandes dessinées produites, qui seront diffusées aux autres élèves de l'établissement, ont pour but de sensibiliser et de créer un dialogue constructif. Lutter contre le harcèlement, des formations courtes et pratiques sur Canotech, Réseau Canopé.La playlist Extra classe Lutter contre le harcèlement.Téléchargez la transcription [DOCX]. Retrouvez-nous sur : Extraclasse.reseau-canope.fr Apple Podcasts Spotify Deezer Google Podcasts Podcast AddictExtra classe, des podcasts produits par Réseau Canopé. Émission préparée et réalisée par : Louis Compoint Directrice de publication : Marie-Caroline Missir Coordination et production : Hervé Turri, Luc Taramini, Magali Devance Mixage : Laurent Gaillard Secrétariat de rédaction : Quentin Ganteil Voix additionnelle : Magali Devance Contactez-nous sur : contact@reseau-canope.fr © Réseau Canopé, 2024Hébergé par Ausha. Visitez ausha.co/politique-de-confidentialite pour plus d'informations.

Il y a dix ans, sur une plage du débarquement, un vétéran soucieux de partager son histoire rencontre un professeur d'histoire-géographie en lycée, Lucien Grillet. De cette rencontre surgit l'idée d'un temps d'échange avec des élèves. C'est le début d'une histoire de partages – partages d'histoires et de mémoires. Suivent d'autres rencontres. Les élèves s'impliquent, recueillent des témoignages, les rédigent. Un premier livre est publié. Un site internet est créé. Mais comment diffuser ces histoires, ces témoignages ? Comment faire vivre cette mémoire ? Il est nécessaire d'en parler, d'échanger ! Découvrez dans cet épisode comment les voyages mémoriels à Mauthausen permettent de conjuguer les mémoires des uns avec les histoires des autres.Le site du projet Histoire partagée, mémoires partagées et l'actualité du projet pour le 80e anniversaire du débarquement et de la bataille de Normandie.Téléchargez la transcription [DOCX].Retrouvez-nous sur : Extraclasse.reseau-canope.fr Apple Podcasts Spotify Deezer Google Podcasts Podcast AddictExtra classe, des podcasts produits par Réseau Canopé. Émission préparée et réalisée par : Fanny Milhe Poutingon Directrice de publication : Marie-Caroline Missir Coordination et production : Hervé Turri, Luc Taramini, Magali Devance Enregistrement et mixage : Myriam Naciri Secrétariat de rédaction : Anne-Sophie Carpentier Voix additionnelle : Magali Devance Contactez-nous sur : contact@reseau-canope.fr © Réseau Canopé, 2024Hébergé par Ausha. Visitez ausha.co/politique-de-confidentialite pour plus d'informations.

Denne har ligget og ruget en stund.

L'école ouverte buissonnière est l'un des dispositifs de l'opération Vacances apprenantes. Il propose aux élèves des séjours où se mêlent cours de rattrapage, découverte de la région et vivre-ensemble au quotidien. En zone rurale ou littorale, les élèves continuent leur apprentissage scolaire au contact de la nature, encadrés par des enseignants de leur établissement d'origine.Jordi Sebastian, enseignant d'EPS au collège La Garrigole à Perpignan, encadre chaque année l'école ouverte de son établissement. Randonnées, escalade, courses d'orientation, étude de la rivière, aide aux devoirs ou encore gestes de premiers secours sont au programme de la semaine qui précède la rentrée.Les vacances apprenantes, sur le site education.gouv.fr.Téléchargez la transcription [DOCX].Retrouvez-nous sur : Extraclasse.reseau-canope.fr Apple Podcasts Spotify Deezer Google Podcasts Podcast AddictExtra classe, des podcasts produits par Réseau Canopé. Émission préparée et réalisée par : Jean-Paul Fillit Directrice de publication : Marie-Caroline Missir Coordination et production : Hervé Turri, Luc Taramini, Magali Devance Mixage : Laurent Gaillard Secrétariat de rédaction : Quentin Ganteil Voix additionnelle : Magali Devance Contactez-nous sur : contact@reseau-canope.fr © Réseau Canopé, 2024Hébergé par Ausha. Visitez ausha.co/politique-de-confidentialite pour plus d'informations.

Trop d'élèves sont victimes de harcèlement à l'école. Sylvie Nicollet, enseignante de lettres-histoire en lycée professionnel depuis 20 ans, a observé l'aggravation du phénomène avec l'essor des réseaux sociaux. Comment lutter contre ce fléau ? Comment prévenir le phénomène ? Pour tenter de répondre à ces questions, Sylvie et ses collègues ont choisi depuis plusieurs années de faire participer leurs élèves au concours « Non au harcèlement ». Pour sensibiliser et engager les élèves, ils font appel à un comédien et metteur en scène qui les accompagne dans la production d'une vidéo. Amener les élèves à endosser des rôles pour mieux prendre conscience des conséquences du harcèlement, voilà tout l'enjeu de la démarche que vous allez découvrir dans cet épisode. Lutter contre le harcèlement, des formations courtes et pratiques sur Canotech, Réseau Canopé.La playlist Extra classe Lutter contre le harcèlement.La vidéo des élèves, Cauchemar d'une vie, est disponible sur la page Prix académique « Non au harcèlement » édition 2023 de l'académie de Normandie, dans la partie Lycée, catégorie vidéo.Téléchargez la transcription [DOCX].Retrouvez-nous sur : Extraclasse.reseau-canope.fr Apple Podcasts Spotify Deezer Google Podcasts Podcast AddictExtra classe, des podcasts produits par Réseau Canopé. Émission préparée et réalisée par : Fanny Milhe Poutingon Directrice de publication : Marie-Caroline Missir Coordination et production : Hervé Turri, Luc Taramini, Magali Devance Enregistrement et mixage : Myriam Naciri Secrétariat de rédaction : Marie-Astrid Leroy-Audo Voix additionnelle : Magali Devance Contactez-nous sur : contact@reseau-canope.fr © Réseau Canopé, 2024Hébergé par Ausha. Visitez ausha.co/politique-de-confidentialite pour plus d'informations.

Comment trouver sa future voie professionnelle lorsqu'on a tout juste 14 ans, peu d'expérience du monde extérieur et une grande perte de confiance en ses capacités ? C'est la problématique à laquelle se confrontent les élèves de 3e « prépa métiers » quand il s'agit de trouver un stage d'orientation. Sarah Zorman, leur professeure principale, a donc imaginé un dispositif sur mesure pour les lancer sur la voie de la réussite : un entraînement à la recherche de stage. Partons donc sur le terrain, dans un centre commercial, découvrir comment les jeunes gagnent en expérience et en confiance pour mieux construire leur projet d'orientation professionnelle. Les épisodes Extra classe de la playlist Enseigner en voie professionnelle peuvent vous intéresser.La classe de 3e dite « prépa-métiers » sur le site éduscol.Le site de l'association La maison de l'Apprendre.Téléchargez la transcription [DOCX].Retrouvez-nous sur : Extraclasse.reseau-canope.fr Apple Podcasts Spotify Deezer Google Podcasts Podcast AddictExtra classe, des podcasts produits par Réseau Canopé. Émission préparée et réalisée par : Myriam Jacquet Directrice de publication : Marie-Caroline Missir Coordination et production : Hervé Turri, Luc Taramini, Magali Devance Mixage : Laurent Gaillard Secrétariat de rédaction : Quentin Ganteil Voix additionnelle : Magali Devance Contactez-nous sur : contact@reseau-canope.fr © Réseau Canopé, 2024Hébergé par Ausha. Visitez ausha.co/politique-de-confidentialite pour plus d'informations.

Foundations of Amateur Radio The other day I had an interesting exchange with a contest manager and it's not the first time I've had this dance. As you might know, pretty much every weekend marks at least one on-air amateur radio contest. Following rules set out by a contest the aim is to make contact or a QSO with stations, taking note of each, in a process called logging. Using logging software is one way to keep track of who you talked to, a piece of paper is another. If your station is expecting to make less than a dozen contacts per hour, paper is a perfectly valid way of keeping track, but it's likely that most contests expect you to transcribe your scribbles into electronic form. Which electronic form is normally explicitly stated in the rules for that contest. While I mention rules, you should check the rules for each contest you participate in. Rules change regularly, sometimes significantly, often subtly with little edge cases captured in updated requirements. On the software side, using electronic logging, even transcribing your paper log, can get you to unexpected results. I participated in a local contest and logged with a tool I've used before, xlog. Contests often specify that you must submit logs using something like Cabrillo or ADIF. There are contests that provide a web page where you're expected to paste or manually enter your contacts in some specific format. Using xlog I exported into each of the available formats, Cabrillo, ADIF, Tab Separated Values or TSV and a format I've never heard of, EDI. The format, according to a VHF Handbook I read, Electronic Data Interchange, was recommended by the IARU Region 1 during a meeting of the VHF/UHF/Microwave committee in Vienna in 1998 and later endorsed by the Executive Committee. The contest I participated in asked for logs in Excel, Word, ASCII text or the output of electronic logging programs. Based on that I opened up the Cabrillo file and noticed that the export was gibberish. It had entries that bore no relation to the actual contest log entries, so I set about fixing them, one line at a time, to ensure that what I was submitting was actually a true reflection of my log. So, issue number one is that xlog does not appear to export Cabrillo or ADIF properly. The TSV and EDI files appear, at least at first glance, to have the correct information, and the xlog internal file also contains the correct information. Much food for head-scratching. I'm running the latest version, so I'll dig in further when I have a moment. In any case, I received a lovely email from the contest manager who apologised for not being able to open up my submitted log because they didn't have access to anything that could open up a Cabrillo file. We exchanged a few emails and I eventually sent a Comma Separated Values, or CSV file, and my log was accepted. What I discovered was that their computer was "helping" in typical unhelpful "Clippy" style, by refusing to open up a Cabrillo file, claiming that it didn't have software installed that could read it. Which brings me to issue number two. All these files, Cabrillo, ADIF, TSV, CSV, EDI, even xlog's internal file are all text files. You can open them up in any text editor, on any platform, even Windows, which for reasons only the developers at Microsoft understand, refuses to open a text file if it has the wrong file extension. This "helpful" aspect of the platform is extended into their email service, "Outlook.com" previously called "Hotmail", which refuses to download "unknown" files, like the Cabrillo file with a ".cbr" extension. With the demise of Windows Notepad, another annoying aspect has been removed, that of line-endings. To signify the end of a line MacOS, Windows and Linux have different ideas on how to indicate that a line of text has come to an end. In Windows-land, and DOS before it, use Carriage Return followed by Linefeed. Unix, including Linux and FreeBSD use Linefeed only; OS X also uses Linefeed, but classic Macintosh used Carriage Return. In other words, if you open up a text file and it all runs into one big chunk of text, it's likely that line-endings are the cause. It also means that you, and contest managers, can rename files with data in Cabrillo, ADIF, CSV, TSV, EDI and plenty of other formats like HTML, CSS, JS, JSON, XML and KML to something ending with "TXT" and open it in their nearest text editor. If this makes you giddy, a KMZ file is actually a ZIP file with a KML file inside, which is also true for several other file formats like DOCX to name one. Of course, that doesn't fix the issues of broken exports like xlog appears to be doing, but at least it gets everyone on the same page. Word of caution. In most of these files individual characters matter. Removing an innocuous space or quote might completely corrupt the file for software that is written for that file format. So, tread carefully when you're editing. What other data wrangling issues have you come across? I'm Onno VK6FLAB

« Il n'est jamais trop tôt pour faire ses premiers pas avec la poésie. » Tel est le message que fait passer Sophie Brunel, enseignante en maternelle à Saint-Paul-en-Jarez (42), au micro d'Extra classe. Écoutez-la relater l'aventure du Printemps des Poètes, manifestation nationale à laquelle elle participe avec ses élèves de 4 et 5 ans. Au programme de l'épisode : des apprentissages, et surtout, de la joie et du bonheur.Téléchargez la transcription [DOCX].Retrouvez-nous sur : Extraclasse.reseau-canope.fr Apple Podcasts Spotify Deezer Google Podcasts Podcast AddictExtra classe, des podcasts produits par Réseau Canopé. Émission préparée et réalisée par : Aurélie Dulin et Myriam Jacquet Directrice de publication : Marie-Caroline Missir Coordination et production : Hervé Turri, Luc Taramini, Magali Devance Mixage : Myriam Naciri Secrétariat de rédaction : Aurélien Brault Voix additionnelle : Magali Devance Contactez-nous sur : contact@reseau-canope.fr © Réseau Canopé, 2024

bava_metzia032_Lakuf_Yitzro.docx - Document for Daf 32 by Simon Wolf

Faire vivre la mémoire de la Shoah et de la Résistance, c'est le grand projet d'Anne-Cécile Clamagirand, professeure d'histoire-géographie accompagnée de six de ses élèves d'un ITEP dans l'Ain. Chaque semaine, ils ont œuvré pour recenser et cartographier les lieux de mémoire de Trévoux et de la région, et ont réalisé une maquette en volume et une carte interactive remarquables d'exhaustivité. Ce projet ambitieux pour un public d'apprenants en grande difficulté n'était pourtant pas joué d'avance. Comment Anne-Cécile a-t-elle fait pour que ses élèves trouvent la motivation ?Mémoire et citoyenneté, sur le site Les valeurs de la République de Réseau Canopé.Mémoire de Trévoux, 1939-1945, carte interactive réalisée par les élèves.Téléchargez la transcription [DOCX].Retrouvez-nous sur : Extraclasse.reseau-canope.fr Apple Podcasts Spotify Deezer Google Podcasts Podcast AddictExtra classe, des podcasts produits par Réseau Canopé. Émission préparée et réalisée par : Myriam Jacquet Directrice de publication : Marie-Caroline Missir Coordination et production : Hervé Turri, Luc Taramini, Magali Devance Mixage : Laurent Gaillard Secrétariat de rédaction : Marie-Astrid Leroy-Audo Voix additionnelle : Magali Devance Contactez-nous sur : contact@reseau-canope.fr © Réseau Canopé, 2024

Éric Trouillot est professeur de mathématiques en collège depuis 30 ans. Passionné par le jeu et les mathématiques, il combine les deux pour donner aux élèves le goût du calcul mental. Sous une forme très simple, le recours au jeu permet aux élèves de comprendre les liens qui unissent les nombres entre eux afin qu'ils ne soient plus des signes abstraits mais de véritables amis. C'est à l'occasion d'une formation à La Réunion pour les professeurs des écoles, qu'Éric nous parle de son approche ludopédagogique de l'enseignement du calcul mental.Éric Trouillot a créé son propre univers de jeu de calcul mental, avec le concours de Réseau Canopé : Mathador, où sont déclinés des jeux de société, des jeux en ligne et un concours pour toute la classe. Retrouvez de nombreuses pistes sur la ludopédagogie et le calcul mental sur son blog.Ces épisodes Extra classe peuvent vous intéresser :Les maths en mouvement - Les Énergies scolaires #25 du 20 octobre 2021.Maths et rap - Les Énergies scolaires #71 du 7 décembre 2022.Faire aimer les maths - Les Énergies scolaires #108 du 15 novembre 2023.Ma salle de maths augmentée - Les Énergies scolaires #119 du 21 février 2024.Téléchargez la transcription [DOCX].Retrouvez-nous sur : Extraclasse.reseau-canope.fr Apple Podcasts Spotify Deezer Google Podcasts Podcast AddictExtra classe, des podcasts produits par Réseau Canopé. Émission préparée et réalisée par : Louis Compoint Directrice de publication : Marie-Caroline Missir Coordination et production : Hervé Turri, Luc Taramini, Magali Devance Mixage : Laurent Gaillard Secrétariat de rédaction : Aurélien Brault Voix additionnelle : Magali Devance Contactez-nous sur : contact@reseau-canope.fr © Réseau Canopé, 2024

A cuntversation with our cuntz Docx and Yaw (IG: @itdocx & @yawprodi), where we ki about our cunt awakening, self pleasure, and breaking down what it means to accept your person as they are.

Hello hello! Today I've got for you another between-season bonus episode. This time we're breaking format to talk about i know the end, a module I published earlier this year about going back home after a long time away and all the horrors that entails. Because if you can't occasionally publish something self-indulgent in your podcast feed, what's even the point of having one?My cohost for this is my friend Nico MacDougall, the current organizer of The Awards, who edited i know the end and had almost as much to say about it as I did.For maximum understanding of this episode, you can pick up a free copy of the module here and follow along (or skim it in advance).Further reading:The original i know the end cover artThe “oops all PBTA moves” version of i know the endThree of my short filmsMy previous written designer commentaries on Space Train Space Heist and CouriersJohn Harper talking with Andrew Gillis about the origins of Blades in the DarkThe official designer commentary podcasts for Spire and HeartAaron Lim's An Altogether Different River, which comes with a designer commentary versionCamera Lucida by Roland Barthes, a photography theory book that we talked about during recording but which I later cut because I remembered most of the details about it incorrectlyWhat Is Risograph Printing, another topic cut from the final recording because I got basically everything about it wrong while recording (the background texture of the module is a risograph printed texture)Before Sunrise by Richard LinklaterQuestionable Content by Jeph JacquesSocials:Nico's carrd page, which includes links to their socials, editing rates, and The Awards.Sam on Bluesky, Twitter, dice.camp, and itch.The Dice Exploder logo was designed by sporgory, and our theme song is Sunset Bridge by Purely Grey.Join the Dice Exploder Discord to talk about the show!Transcript:Sam: Hello and welcome to Dice Exploder. Normally each week we take a tabletop RPG mechanic, bait our lines with it, and cast them out to see, to see what we can catch. But you hear that different intro music? That means this episode I'm doing something much more self indulgent, a designer commentary on a module I released earlier this year called I Know the End.And just a heads up here at the top, to get the most out of this, you probably want to have at least read through the module in question before, or as, you're listening. I threw a bunch of free copies up on itch for exactly this purpose, so feel free to go run and grab one. I'll wait.Anyway, I love designer commentaries. You can find a few of my old written ones, as well as links to a few of my favorites from other people, in the show notes. But I wanted to try releasing one as a podcast, because one, that sounds fun, and two, what's the point of having a podcast feed if you can't be ridiculously self indulgent in it on occasion?And I picked I Know The End to talk about because it is... weird. I don't know. It's weird. I describe it on itch as a short scenario about returning home and all the horrors that entails. But you'll hear us take issue with, I don't know, maybe every word in that sentence over the course of this commentary. It was a strange experience to make this thing, and I figured that might be interesting to hear about.It was also the first time I ever worked with an editor Nico MacDougall my friend and the organizer behind The Awards since 2023. Nico was excellent to work with and you can find their rates and such in the show notes and they are with me today to talk through this thing in excruciating detail as you probably noticed from the runtime we had a lot to say. Definitely contracted two guys on a podcast disease. Anyway, I hope you enjoy this. But regardless, I'd love to hear what you think of it. Should I do more? Never again? Want to organize the Dice Exploder Game Jam we mused about doing at the end of this? Hit me up! I'd love to hear from you. And now, here is myself, I guess, and Nico MacDougall, with a full designer's commentary on I Know The End.Nico: Well, Sam, thanks for being here on your podcast to discuss your... adventure.Sam: You're welcome.Nico: Yes.Sam: for having me.Nico: Very first question is adventure: is that really, like, the right term for this?Sam: Are we really starting here? Like, I, I don't know. I, I feel like I got, I really went into this thing with true intentions to write a proper module, you know? Like I was thinking about OSR style play for like the first time in my life, and like, we were both coming out of the awards 2022 judging, and a lot of the submissions for 2022 the Awards were modules. I thought that was great but it really was sort of like opening the floodgates of this style of play that I knew basically nothing about. And, at the same time that we were reading through all 200 submissions for the awards, I was also reading Marcia B's list of 100 OSR blog posts of some influence.And so I was really drinking from the fire hose of this style of play, and also, I wasn't playing any of it. Like, I was experimenting with Trophy Gold a little bit, which is this story game that is designed to try to play OSR modules and dungeons as, like, a story game kind of experience. And I was kind of figuring out how it works and like how I wanted to run it and how to make it go And Joe DeSimone, who was running the awards at the time was just encouraging everyone to make weirder shit and like, that was his ethos and those were the people that he got to submit to the awards. Like, it was just the weirdest stuff that I had ever read in the RPG space and... That's probably a lie. There's some weird stuff out there.It was just like so much weird stuff. It was like stuff on the bleeding edge of a whole side of the hobby that I didn't participate in in the first place. My intro to this part of the hobby was the bleeding edge of it. And I was like, alright, I, I just wanna make something there, I wanna try playing around there and see what happens.And Joe tweeted out the tweet was like, Now we're all making modules based on songs that make us cry. And I was listening to the Phoebe Bridgers album Punisher on loop at the time to inspire a screenplay I was working on. And the last track is called I Know the End, and just ends with this, primal scream.And it was, it was a hard fall for me, at the time. And the primal scream felt really cathartic. And I was spending a lot of time in the, small town where I grew up. And, this horror monster idea of a town that is, itself, an entity and like is a whole monster, and like, what does that mean exactly? I don't know, but intuitively, I like, understand it, and we're just gonna kind of drive... towards my intuitive understanding of what this thing is supposed to be. I just decided to do that and see what happened. And did that give us an adventure in the end? I don't know. Did that give us a 32 page long bestiary entry in the form of a module? Like, that sounds closer to right to me, but also, taxonomies are a lie and foolish anyways.I don't know, I made a weird thing, here it is. Nico: Yeah. So I was scrolling back in our, in our conversation to where you first shared this with me, and I... I would like to share with the audience the text that accompanied it. It was the Google Doc, and then it said, This might be completely unplayable, it might actually be a short story, or, like, a movie, but I'm gonna publish it anyway, and, you know... If that isn't exactly it, like...Sam: Yeah I like that stuff. I don't know, another thing I've been thinking about a lot this fall is writing by stream of consciousness. Like, I realized that I don't have a lot of confidence in any of my work that I feel like I created quickly. Like, the RPG thing I'm most well known for, I think, is Doskvol Breathes, which I just pumped out in an afternoon. It was just a thought that I had on a whim about how you might play blades in the dark maybe. And I finished it and then I released it and people were like, this is amazing. And I still get complimented on it all the time. I'm still really proud of it, but it, I don't have any confidence in it because it came so quickly.And, like, I know that this is something I need to, like, talk about in therapy, you know, about, like, It's not real art unless I worked on it for six months straight, like, really worked my ass off. But this process, I sort of looked back over my career as a screenwriter, as a short filmmaker, as a game designer, and started realizing just how many of my favorite things that I've made came from exactly that process of the whole idea kind of coming together all at once in like one sitting. And even if it then took like a bunch of months of like refining like it's wild to me How much of my favorite work was created by following my intuition, and then just leaving it be afterwards.Nico: Yeah, I actually did want to ask about the similarity between your, like, process for TTRPG design versus screenwriting, cause... While I have read, you know, edited this, but also, like, read your your game design work and know relatively well your thoughts on, like, you know, just game design sort of theory and stuff in general, I have never read any, like, screenwriting stuff that you've done. Although, lord knows I hope to see it someday. Sam: Well, listen, if anyone listening to this wants to read my screenplays, I'm on Discord. You can find me and I'll happily share them all. My old short films are largely available on the internet, too. You know, maybe I'll link a couple in the show notes.Nico: oh yeah,Sam: But I I think of my process for screenwriting as really, really structural.Like, I, I'm a person who really came out of needing a plot and needing to know what happens in a story, and to really especially need to know the ending of a story so I know kind of what I'm going towards as I'm writing the thing. I outline like really extensively before I write feature or a pilot, like there's so much planning you have to do, I think it is really, really hard to write any kind of screenplay and not have to revise it over and over and over again, or at least like plan really carefully ahead of time and like really think about all the details, revise a lot, run it by a lot of people for feedback over and over. But especially for me that, that having an ending, like a target in mind when I'm writing is so important. I just don't know how to do it without that.Except occasionally when I get some sort of idea like this one where I have a feeling of vibe and I just start writing that thing and then eventually it's done. And I, I've never had that happen for a feature film screenplay or like a TV pilot kind of screenplay.But I have had a couple of short films come together that way where I don't know what the thing is, I just know what I am writing right now, and then it's done, and then I go make it. And I I don't know why that happens sometimes. Nico: Yeah, I mean I would imagine length plays a factor in it, right? Like a short film, or, I mean, gosh, how many pages did I know the end, end, end up being? Sam: 36. Nico: But I find that really fascinating that, too, that you say that when you're screenwriting, you have to have it really structural, really outlined, an end specifically in mind, when, to me, that almost feels like, well, not the outlining part, but having an end in mind feels almost antithetical to even the idea of, like, game design, or, I guess, TTRPG design, right?Even the most sort of relatively pre structured, Eat the Reich, Yazeeba's Bed and Breakfast, like, Lady Blackbird games, where the characters are pretty well defined before any human player starts interacting with them, you can never know how it's going to end. And it's kind of almost against the idea of the game or the, the sort of art form as a whole to really know that.Even games that are play to lose, like, there are many games now where it's like, you will die at the end. And it's like, okay, but like, that's not really the actual end. Like, sure, it's technically the end, but it's like, we have no idea what's gonna be the moment right before that, or the moment before that. As opposed to screenwriting Sam: yeah, it's a, it's a really different medium. I still think my need to have a target in mind is something that is really true about my game design process too.Like the other game that I'm well known for, well known for being relative here, but is Space Train Space Heist, where I was like, I have a very clear goal, I want to run a Blades in the Dark as a one shot at Games on Demand in a two hour slot. And Blades in the Dark is not a game that is built to do that well, so I want to make a game that is built to do that well, but like, captures everything about the one shot Blades in the Dark experience that I think is good and fun .And that may not be a sort of thematic statement kind of ending, like that's what I'm kind of looking for when I'm writing a screenplay, but that is a clear goal for a design of a game.Nico: Yeah. even In the context of I know the end, and to start talking a little bit about my role in this as well, as, as the editor, I think the point of view, the vibe, the, like, desired sort of aesthetic end point Was very clear from the start, from the jump. And I think that in many ways sort of substitutes for knowing the end of the story in your screenwriting process.So that really helped when I was editing it by focusing on like, okay, here's the pitch. How can I help sort of whittle it down or enhance it or change stuff in order to help realize that goal.And sometimes it kind of surprises me even, like, how much my games shift and change as they reach that goal. Like, sometimes you can, like, look back at old versions of it, and you're like, wow, so little of this is still present. But, like, you can see the throughline, very sort of Ship of Theseus, right? Like, you're like, wow, everything has been replaced, and yet, it's, like, still the thing that I wanted to end up at.Sam: Yeah, another thing that is, I think, more true of my screenwriting process than my game design process is how very common that in the middle of the process I will have to step back and take stock of what was I trying to do again? Like, what was my original goal? I've gotten all these notes from a lot of different people and, like, I've done a lot of work and I've found stuff that I like.And what was I trying to do? Like, I have, all this material on the table now, I have, like, clay on the wheel, and, like, I just gotta step back and take a break and refocus on, like, what are we trying to do. I Think it's really important to be able to do that in any creative process.To Tie together a couple of threads that we've talked about here, talked at the beginning of this about how much this felt like a stream of consciousness project for me, that I really just like, dumped this out and then like, let it rip.But also, I mean, this was my first time working with an editor, and I think you did a lot of work on this to make it way better, like really polish it up and make those edges the kind of pointy that they wanted to be, that this game really called for. And that makes this, in some ways, both a really unstructured process for me, and then a really structured process, and... I don't know what to make of that. I think there's something cool about having both of those components involved in a process. Nico: Yeah, it is. I I very much agree that like, yeah, most of my sort of design stuff have, has proceeded very much the same way of just kind of like sporadically working on it, changing stuff, like revamping it, whatever. And it's like, it's sort of, yeah, in a constant state of fluxx up until the moment where I'm like, okay, I guess it's done now.What I was gonna say, I was gonna jump back just a point or two which is you mentioned Clayton Notestein's Explorer's Design Jam. And I was curious, like, what was your experience, like, using that design template? Sam: Yeah I really enjoyed it, I really had a good time with it. I had already gotten really comfortable with InDesign just teaching myself during lockdown. Like, that's what I did for 2020, was I, like, laid out a bunch of games myself and they all looked like shit, but they all taught me how to use InDesign as a program.And I think templates are really, really valuable. Like it's so much easier to reconfigure the guts of another template than it is to create something from scratch.And I like Clayton's template. I think it's nice and clean. I think you can see in all the publications that have come out using Clayton's template, how recognizable it is. How little most people stray from the bones of it, and on the one hand, I think it's amazing that you can just use the template and go really quickly and like, get something out.And also I just want to push on it a little bit more. I want something, like the template is designed to be a template. It is not a suit tailored to whatever your particular project is. But also, I think if I had tried to lay this out without a template, it would look substantially worse, and there are a few notable breaks here and there that I, you know, I enjoyed experimenting with. I like the use of the comments column for little artwork. I think that was a nice little innovation that I added.And, you know, I didn't write this originally to have that sort of commentary column as a part of it. Like, all of the text was just in the main body of it. And I like the way it turned out to have that sort of, like, director's commentary thing hanging out in the wings. lot of people have talked about how much they like that in Clayton's template. so I, I don't know, like I, think that on the one hand a template really opens up a lot of possibilities for a lot of people and really opened up a lot of possibilities for me, and on the other hand I do still look at it and I see the template And I'm like, I hope this doesn't look too much like every other person whoNico: Right, right. I mean, that is definitely the difficulty of providing those kinds of tools, because like, it makes it very easy to make things especially if you're sort of just getting started, or if you don't have a lot of confidence or familiarity with it inDesign or anything like that. But ultimately, I feel like Clayton himself would say that the Explorer's Design Template is not intended to be, like, the final template, right? It's intended to be, like, a tool that you can use to varying effects, right?Yeah, I was thinking about it when I was going through this earlier, and I was like, Oh, yeah, like, you only use the comments, column a few times, and then I literally only realized maybe five minutes before you said it, I was like, oh, wait, all the little artwork is also in that little column thing, like you just said, and I was like, oh, that's like, that's actually a really cool way to use the template, because that space is already provided if you include that column, but just because you have the column that's, you know, quote unquote, intended for commentary, doesn't mean you have to use it for commentary, doesn't mean you have to put text in there.Sam: Yeah, you definitely like learn a lot of stuff about the guts of the thing as you start playing with it.Nico: Yeah. is probably getting on the level of, like, pretty pointless, sort of what ifs, but I'm curious... If Clayton hadn't done the Explorer's Design Template Jam, or if you had, for whatever reason, like, not been inspired to use that as the impetus to, like, make this and get it edited and laid out and published or whatever, like, Do you think you still would have tried to use that template, or would you have just tried to lay it out yourself, like you've done in the past?Sam: Honestly, I think without the jam this wouldn't exist. I have like a long to do list of things at any given time, like creative projects I wanna on, youNico: Oh, yeah,Sam: know? And the thing that brought this to the top of that to do list was just wanting to have something to submit into that jam. You know, I wanted to work with you as an editor. I Always want to clear something off the to do list. I always want to have some kind of creative project. And, I wanted to submit something to that jam, but I think if you took any one of those away, I might not have put the thing out at all. Nico: Yeah, that's really interesting. But I guess that's also, again, kind of what a good template or layout or just tool in general can help is actually get these things made. Sam: That's what a good jam can do, too, right? I mean, there's a reason the Golden Cobra contest is something that I love. It's like 40 new LARPs every year and they only exist because the Golden Cobra is throwing down the gauntlet.Nico: That's very true. Well, maybe it's time to move along to more practical concerns Sam: Maybe it's time to do the actual commentary part of this episodeWe've done the waxing philosophical part, butNico: we, yeah, checked off that Dice Exploder box. Now it's time to do the actual game talk.Sam: your bingo cards Nico: Yeah, Sam: Yeah, so let's start with the cover.Nico: Yes, the cover, which I only realized it was a teeth, that it was a mouth with teeth open when you said in the outline, ah yes, it's a mouth with teeth. And I looked at it and I was like... Oh my god, it is. Like,Sam: I did my job so well. I wanted it to be subtle, but I always like looked at it and was like it's so obviously teeth, I'm never gonna get this subtle enough. But I'm I'm glad to hear that I succeeded.Nico: I truly don't know what I thought it was before, but it definitely wasn't teeth.Sam: Yeah. Well, it started as I'll share this in the show notes. It started as this image. It was like a 6x9 layout, and, the teeth were still there, and it was like, all black, and the teeth were this much wider, gaping maw, like, inhuman, unhinged jaw kind of situation. And then, in the middle of it, was a, like, live laugh love kind of Airbnb sign with I Know The End on it. It was like the mouth, like, eating the sign.And I liked that. I felt like, the problem with that was that... As much as creepy, live, laugh, love sign is kind of the like, vibe of this, I didn't really want to bring in the like, kitsch of that at all, like, I felt like that kitschiness would hang over the whole thing if I made it the cover, and I mean, this whole thing is just about my own personal emotional repression, right? And my feelings about my small town that I'm from, andabout like, my ambition, and, exactly, yeah.But I, I write a lot, and I make a lot of art about emotional repression , and I think the particular vibe of this game's repression doesn't have space for irony, or satire, or like, Do you wanna live, laugh, love? Like, I don't know how else to put it. Like, it just felt really wrong.It was like, if you put that into the space at all, it's gonna curdle the whole feeling. Nico: it's about the framing of it. I, know that Spencer Campbell of Gila RPGs has written something about this on his blog. I don't remember specifically what the context is, but he's a psychologist by training and is talking about how, like, the way that you frame something matters a lot to how people respond to it, right?So you like, if you're framing it as like, oh, you have, twelve things and I take away six from you, versus like, oh, you have nothing and then you are given six things. It's like, both scenarios, you like, end up with six but Sam: One feels like a letdown and one feels great. Yeah,Nico: yeah, and so I think in his article he was talking about in the, yeah, you know, tying that into the game design context, obviously.And I think it matches here where like, sort of runs the risk of like, priming people to expect kitsch, and I don't think that that's really present in the rest of the game. And that kind of mismatched expectations could really, like, lead to some problems when people are trying to, like, play the game.Sam: Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, I mean this cover is just kind of like, oh. Like, it doesn't it doesn't really tell you much other than just like there's something back there that's maybe vaguely menacing, and that's kind of it. That's kind of Nico: Yeah.Sam: Alright, speaking of which can we, can we talk about my favorite interaction between the two of us as we were working on this?Nico: Oh, yeah, I was not sure how to bring that up. yes, please do. Now that we're moving on to... For everyone following along at home, we are proceeding to the credits page.Sam: The comment I got from you while you were editing this was, IDK if it would look different in print, but having the text so close to the edge of the page is activating my fight or flight response. And I just replied, working as intended.Nico: It yeah, I had the feeling, I think, even when I sent that, I was like, this, this is not like an accident. Like, like, like no one makes this like no one does this by accident. But, yes, truly, I hope that you are following along at home because I believe that Sam generously gave a whole bunch of community copies of this game, or made them available. Sam: I believe it was 42, 069 I'm usually doing some number like that. This game, I might have done a different number, but that's, the other games that I've done.Nico: So, but the text on this, for credits page specifically, it's truly, like, at the edge of the page. Like, it looks like it could be cut off. It's like, in print, it would be like, cut off by the process of actually like, making it. In fact, feels like if you try to send it to a printer, they could almost send it back and be like, you've gotta give us some space there. Like, you simply can't do that. There needs to be a gutter, or bleed, or whatever the term is. Like, Sam: I love it. maybe one day I will print this. Honestly, like if I become a super famous game designer or something, like, this is one of the ones that I Nico: screen, slash screenwriter.Sam: yeah, yeah. This is one of the ones I'd like to go back and hold in my hand, but I also I don't know, I just love it. I, I love designing for digital as, like, a primary thing, because I just feel like most people who play the thing are gonna play it out of digital.And I don't know if that's, like, the primary audience for a lot of modules. Like, I think there are a ton of people out there who just, like, buy the zine and hold the zine in their hand and probably never get around to playing it. But I, I love the digital. I've always loved the digital. I don't know, I just like making for it.Nico: Well I mean I was even thinking about it in the context of like, you know, how you talked about how you changed the aspect ratio, I was like thinking about that and I was like, I mean, it's not like that would be impossible to print, but like, most standard commercial printers operate in like, one of the more standard like, page sizes. Even the risograph you said is what it's called, right?Sam: The, the RISO. Yeah, I don't know if it's Rizzo or RISO, but I'm gonna sayNico: The RISO background also makes the, again, just from like a fully practical point of view, it's like you're adding color to the whole thing,Like there are many potential barriers to this as like a physical product that would, that are simply not there when you're designing for digital, so like, it is nice to have that sort of freedom, like, when you're thinking about how to lay this out or, or put stuff on here, it's like, you're freed from a lot of those practical considerations.Sam: There's a few other details I want to talk about on this page just kind of like references I'm making that are not obvious.So the first is that the header font and title font of I Know The End is a font that I ripped from Lilancholy, which is this amazing book by Snow, which is ostensibly a game, but but also a reflection on childhood and personal relationship to emotions and trauma.And I love the look of the font, but I also intentionally wanted to reference that game while I was making something that felt really personal in a similar vein. And another another reference here is that the color of the whole game, like this red, is pulled from the cover art for the Phoebe Bridgers album Punisher that I know the end is off of. I, I just found the, like, most saturated red pixel that I could on the album and was like, that's the color! I love hiding little references in every little detail that I can. Nico: Yeah, it's so interesting because I did not know any of that, you know, prior to this conversation or seeing that stuff on the outline. What did you sort of hope to achieve with those references, right? Because I can't imagine that you're plan was like, for someone to look at it and be like, oh my god, that's the Lilancholy font, and that's the Phoebe Bridgers album Sam: that's one pixel from that album cover.Yeah.What am I trying to achieve? I don't know, like there's, so the Paul Thomas Anderson movie Phantom Thread Is an amazing movie, and it's about Daniel Day Lewis being incredibly serious, scary Daniel Day Lewis, making dresses, being a tailor, and an element of the movie is that he hides his initials inside the dresses, like, when he's making them, he, like, sews his initials in.And that's a real thing that, that people did, and maybe it's just for him. It's also kind of an arrogant thing to do, you know, that all these, like, women are gonna be walking around wearing these dresses with, like, his initials kind of, like, carved, it's like this power thing. But my favorite part of it is that Phantom Thread is PT, also known as Paul Thomas Anderson.Nico: Ha Sam: And, like, like, I, I just feel like when you're doing that kind of thing, it's just, what an act, it's just so beautiful and arrogant and satisfying. Like I think doing that kind of little reference and joke for myself brings me into the mindset of what I am trying to convey with the game.Like, if I'm thinking in the detail of the font selection, what do I want to reference? What do I want to bring to this game? Then, I'm gonna be I'm gonna be thinking about that in every other choice I'm making for the game, too. And even if half of those choices end up being just for me, I will have been in the headspace to make the other half that are for everyone else, too.Nico: Mm hmm. Yeah. Yeah. like, You could almost even call these, like, Easter eggs, right?But it also made me think about, I had to look this up actually as you were talking, because I was like, about that, the CalArts classroom number that like all of the animators that studied there fit into like Pixar movies and stuff, like, A113, A113. And I think that's also sort of a good example of it in some ways, because it's like now, with the advent of the internet, and you know, and a certain way of engaging with media, like, everyone knows what that, what that means now, or they could if they just looked it up, or they just see some BuzzFeed, you know, article that's like, you know, 50 easter eggs that you missed in the latest Pixar movie.But yeah, it's like, it's very interesting because it kind of asks who is the movie for? What's the intended or imagined audience for all of these things? And it sort of shows that, like, you can have multiple audiences or multiple levels of engagement with the same audience, like, at the same time. Maybe, I would say, it's very unlikely that any random person would just like, look at the cover of I Know The End and be like, oh, that's the Lilancholy font, but,Sam: I have had someone say that to me, though. Yeah.Nico: but, so, what I was just gonna say is like, but I don't think it's hard to imagine that like, the type of person who would, who would buy, who would be interested in I Know The End or Lilancholy, I think there's a pretty decent chance that they would be interested in the other if they're interested in one of them, right?And so it is interesting as well, where it's like, I am often surprised by like the ability of people to sort of interpret or decipher things that far outweighs my sort of expectations of their ability to do so.If only just because I have the arrogance to be like, well no one could ever have a mind like mine. Like, no one could ever think in the specific bizarre way that I do. Then it's like actually a surprising number of people think in a very similar way. Sam: Another thing I think about with making these really, really tiny references, easter eggs, it's the, not making a decision is making a decision, right? CentrismNico: Oh,Sam: Like, if you have literally anything that you have not made a choice about with intention, that is a missed opportunity, I think.And... I have so much respect for people who will just pump something out, like, write a page of a game and, like, upload as a DocX to itch. Like, Aaron King is a genius, and I know a lot of games that are put out that way, and I love that stuff. But for me, like, the kind of art creation process that I enjoy and like doing is so based on finding meaning in every crevice, finding a way to express yourself in every detail. just love doing it.Nico: you are the English teacher that the, the curtains are blue meme is referencing, in fact.Sam: Yes.Nico: The curtains are blue in I Know The End because,Sam: Well, and I know the end they are red, but Nico: yes.Imagine that being the new version of the meme: the curtains in this are red because there's a Phoebe Bridgers album that has a single pixel that is that color.Sam: Yeah, I don't know. It's true, though.Nico: Exactly. it is in fact true. But so would, in some ways, any other interpretation of...Sam: Yeah.Nico: of the red color, right? It's like you picked it because of the association with the album cover. Someone else could be like, Oh, it means this otherthing. And like that interpretation is correct. Sam: Yeah, I mean, I also picked it because of its association with blood, you know, like I, I wanted to kind of evoke that feeling too, so.Shall we do the table of contents? HehNico: Yeah, absolutely. I mean, I think the most interesting thing to talk about, and I want to know when this entered the sort of the design process, is the blacked out Table of Contents entry which corresponds to an almost entirely blacked out, or in this case, redded out,Sam: Yeah, Nico: messily redacted,part of, the book,Sam: Yeah, I think this was always there, I think I started writing a list of locations very early on, and on that list of locations was, like, I work in Google Docs to begin with for most of my stuff, and it was a bullet pointed numbered list, and the last list item was struck through, and it was your mom's house.And I just thought that was a funny little joke. It's like really dark? Another, just like a little detail, I have such a great relationship with my parents. Like really just a better relationship with my parents than anyone I know. And, so much of my art ends up with these like, really bad, fucked up relationships with parents, and I don't know what that's about.But, there's, there's something about, there's a piece of your hometown that is like so traumatic that you can't bring yourself to look at it. There's a piece of yourself, or your childhood, or like, where you came up, there's something from your origin story that you can't bear to face is a lot of what this is about. And even as the climax of this thing is I think in a lot of ways turning to face everything that you left behind.I mean the whole module is about that but I think fact that even when you are doing that, there's one piece of it that you can't bear to look at is really tragic and a mood to me. You know, it really felt right. Nico: it's sort of like, yeah, I'm finally gonna stand my ground and face my fear, or whatever, except for that thing. That thing, that part over there, for whatever reason, because I'm actually just very afraid of it. It really, as always, is sort of like the exceptions to the rule make the rule, or emphasize the rule. You're kind of carving out the negative space around it. And it makes it clearer in so. so Well, Yeah, so like, then the first thing of the game text itself, so to speak, is like the front and back of a postcard. And where's the picture from? It looks kind of old timey in a sort of non specific way.Sam: It's from Wikimedia Commons, I believe. I was looking for pictures of old postcards, and I wanted a small town, and, this is what I found.The postcard image is actually like a hell of a photo bash too. The stamp on it is from a real postcard I received from my cousin. The handwriting was me on just like a piece of paper that I scanned, and then the postcard is another like open source postcard image.Nico: Yeah. I am, once again, sort of showing, showing a lot of my bias here. I am often kind of against a lot of little, like, accessories, or sort of, like, physical things that are often part of crowdfunding, like, stretch goals, you know, like, it's, I don't know. I don't think it's, like, ontologically evil or anything like that, it's just, I understand, it's part of the reality of crowdfunding, and, like, attracting attention, and yada yada yada, I just personally don't love that reality. Which, of course, is easy to criticize when you're not part of a project is trying to do that, but that aside, I think it would actually genuinely be very cool to have, like, this postcard as, like, a physical object like, if the game were to be printed.Sam: You gonna make me like, handwrite every one of the postcards too? Cause that isNico: I did not say that. Oh, is that really? Well, but then, then you have it already, you can just print it off, like, or you make that the, like, I don't know, the hundred dollar stretch goal, you know, they back it at that level and then the postcard just appears inside their mailbox. Like,Sam: That wa that is creepy. I will tell you that,Nico: You say that as though it's happened to you before. You're like, well, let meSam: well, I'm not, I, I revealing nothing. How autobiographical is this? Nico: Yeah. so I guess, yeah, so getting, So this is the introduction page, the background, the introduction, giving the context to what this module, extended bestiary, what have you, what it is. My question here from a sort of meta perspective is like, how much are you trying to sort of give away at the start of this? How do you pitch this to , like to someone you know?Sam: that's a great question. I'm pretty proud of the execution here. I think I do a good job of, like, leaving some juicy hints here as to what might be going on without giving anything away. Like, the fact that I advertise this as maybe closer to a bestiary entry than a module, like, uh, what? Like, like you, you have an idea of what that means, but also like, where's the monster, what is the thing that I'm looking like, that is kind of planted in your mind in a way that I think is intriguing and sets expectations without giving the whole thing away.And, also, this is just me, like, trying to figure out how to describe this thing in real time as I'm writing. It really came from intuition. Nico: yeah. I know that, you know you're on, very much on record talking about how, you know, like, taxonomy is fake and, you know, et cetera, et cetera. Sam: As much as I love it.Nico: right, right, exactly, I mean, I feel the same way, but I, I am curious as to like if you were trying to sell someone on the idea of even just playing this game, like, how effective do you think it is of like communicating whatever this is, you know, like, is it effective to say it's kind of this, or it's not this, or maybe it's this, like, Sam: I think this is going to be really good at reaching the kind of person who will love this, and really bad at selling this to like a mass audience, you know? But luckily, I'm not trying to sell this to a mass audience. I'm like trying to make Joe Dissimone proud, you know? Like I'm trying to make like something as weird as fucking possible.and I think there's a kind of person who really appreciates that and this struggle to define what this is using existing terminology, I think is going to really appeal to the people who like this.Nico: yeah, I agree, I think it signposts well hey, you, there, like, look at this thing. Isn't that interesting. And if they're like, If they're like, no, that's confusing and I don't know what to do with it, and they go somewhere else, in some ways, it could be argued that that is like, working as intended, right, likeSam: I kind of find it interesting in the sidebar here to watch me sort of like struggle with how you're supposed to play this game, like what rule system are you supposed to use?I do think with some distance from this, the best way to experience this is as a solo game. Like to just read the thing but pause and journal about your character's experience as you sort of walk through it. I have started playing more solo games since I wrote this in preparation for a Season 3 episode of the show, and I think this would serve that experience really well.I considered even, like, rewriting this to be more of explicitly a solo experience, but I, ultimately was really happy leaving it in its sort of nebulous, provocative, what if, is this, what is this sort of state. Nico: Yeah. I would genuinely be interested to have like, the two of us play the game, like this game, like one running it, one as the player, because I don't necessarily disagree with what you said, might be better suited as a solo game, but I really do think that there is something that can be gained about, like being in a room with, like, one other person, or, you know, being on a call with one other person, or whatever and going through this,Sam: Yeah, yeah, I can feel the intensity of that as you describe it. And it sounds harrowing and... Amazing. I do, I do have this dream of like running a Mork Borg dungeon, like over the course of like three sessions, and then like taking one of the players who survives and being like, I've got another module that I think we should play with the same character. Nico: yeah. Anyways, you go home and you think you're safe, but actually, like, Sam: I do think that this as a response to OSR play is really an interesting way to try to play the game, like to Nico: just sort of experienceSam: Yeah, to try to take the kind of character that you would have coming out of that and the experience you would have coming out of that and then like get tossed into this, like that disorientation I think would serve this really well and would do something that I found I really like to do with the OSR kind of play of like finding ways to bring in more character stuff, to just have people to reflect on their person, rather than on the logistical problem solving.Nico: Mm hmm. Which, of course, in some ways also is like, I don't want to say direct contradiction, but like, moving perpendicular to a lot of the sort of OSR principles, rightSam: But yeah, I mean, fuck em. Nico: exactly, I mean, I'm not, saying that to discourage you from doing it, I'm just saying, like, I just think it's an interesting for those to come into sort of, conflict or, or whatever in, in that specific way.Sam: I mean, that's what the bleeding edge of something is all about, right? It's like, what are our principles? What if we throw them out? What does thatNico: Right, right. What if we smash things together that, like, should sort of repel each other like magnets? Like,Sam: Yeah.Nico: Let's move on to the town?Sam: Yeah. So this is the, like, GM spoiler page.Nico: Right.Sam: I don't know that I have a lot to say about this particular page. It's, it's the town. There are, like, two suggestions in the first chunk of this book that came from you that I think are really valuable to this. Like, the first is that the town is always capitalized throughout. Which I like sort of was doing, but you really emphasized, and I think was a great decision.And, the second is that there aren't any contractions in this book except for possessives. And, that was another suggestion that came from you, to have this sort of stilted, formal, slightly off kind of language of not having contractions, that I think serves it really well and is just really cool.Nico: Yeah, I have to give credit for that, to the Questionable Content webcomic, which is a webcomic that has been running forSam: God, is it still going?Nico: oh, it very much is still going, I, it updates Monday to Friday, and I, am reading, I am seated and reading,Sam: stopped reading that like a decade ago.Nico: It is officially 20 years old. It started in 2003.but so one of the characters in that she initially never uses contractions. It is always, it is, it is never, it's. Do not, not, don't, you know, is not, not, isn't and over time, as the character sort of gets more comfortable and starts to open up about her kind of mysterious past, and they'll deal with a lot of the sort of like, serious emotional turmoil that is present in the character, she like, starts to use contractions.And so, it's a specific device that is very weirdly ingrained in my head at this point, because I remember, like, realizing that when it was called out the first time, and then I will fess up and say I have re read the webcomic from the beginning several times. I have a lot of time on my hands sometimes. And it is always kind of a delight to go back to the beginning and see this character and to really notice that device because you know where she ends up and how much more comfortable she is and so to see that difference in the beginning makes it very effective on a reread in a way that is sort of present in the maybe subconscious the first time on the way through.Thank you. And I feel like it's similar here, not quite the same because I don't know if you would ever necessarily actively realize, like, oh, there are no sort of contractions here.Sam: and the town is never gonna stop being a entity of repression.Nico: Yeah, exactly. And so it's giving this like underlying anxiety kind of like,like, you're just like, Ooh, this is Sam: Yeah. It's like, what is going on? What's wrong with the language here?Nico: Yeah. And you might not even really be able to, articulate it because it's sort of hard to articulate the absence of somethingSam: And like, that's the feeling of the whole module. yeah, It's, it's just, it's a great decision. Nico: Yeah. And then of course, capitalizing town, you know, are you even really a game designer if you're not capitalizing some random words in Sam: yeah. gotta have one at least, come on.Sam: I will say I really enjoy the fact that I give no origin story for the town. I think that's also really powerful, of leaving a hole that people can fill in if they want.The mom repression stuff is kinda like that too, the like, the blacking out sharpie. Of like, that's a hole you could fill in in play if you wanted to, but I, I'm not going to. I'm gonna intentionally leave that hole there.Nico: It also is the kind of thing, right, of like, oh gosh, Nova was saying this in the Dice Exploder Discord recently, where like, part of the reason the OSR can be so sort of rules light and stripped down is because like, it is relying a lot on the sort of cultural script of like, what is a fantasy role playing game, or even just like a fantasy story in general, you know? What your knowledge of an OSR game is.And this, in a similar way, is sort of like, you know what a hometown is. Like, you know, I don't need to tell you what the backstory of this is, because you know what it's like to be from somewhere. Cause it's also worth saying, like, this game does not give any character creation instructions, right? I mean, actually, I guess that's not entirely true, because underneath the postcard, you know, it just says, A decade or more gone since you fled the small backwater town that spawned you.And it's like, yeah, that's basically all the sort of character creation information you need, like,Sam: yeah, yeah, like wait, gonna play yourself and you're gonna be sad about this, like uh, Nico: Right, or, like, or if you're not playing yourself, you are playing a person who's sad about it, like, you know, it's like, it's kind of all you really need, Sam: you have internalized the tone of this thing, like, your character is in ways the negative space of the voice of the text. Nico: Like, a weird relationship with your small hometown, we just don't need to spend very much, time covering that broad background. It's much better spent covering the specific, like, locations and people in this town that also sort of help to convey that, feeling, that information.Sam: Temptations and terrors?Nico: Yes, probably The closest thing to a system that is in here, inasmuch as it's taken roughly verbatim from Trophy Dark Sam: yeah, I do think it is notable that when I wrote this I had not played Trophy Dark, and Trophy Dark is the one where you definitely die,Nico: Right. Right. Sam: My intention was not that you would definitely die in this. I really want escape to be a big possibility at the end and so it's interesting that I went with Trophy Dark as, like, the obvious system.Yeah, I like these lists. This is just a lot of tone setting, basically, right? I don't have a lot to say about the details here. The first terror, a children's toy, damp in a gutter, is a reference to another song that makes me cry. The Rebecca Sugar song for Adventure Time, Everything Stays.But most of the rest of this is just, vibes. Here's some vibes. I don't know, I re read these lists and I was like, yeah, they're fine, great, next page. But I don't know, is there anything that stands out to you here?Nico: I mean, I think the most important thing about these lists, these kinds of things, you could maybe even sort of broaden this to like pick lists in general, is that, they kinda need to do two things, like they need to both give you a good solid list of things to pick from, if you're like, at a loss, or if you just are like, looking through it, and you're like, this is good, I want to use this.Or, the other purpose of using it is to have it sort of identify the space that you're playing in to the point where you can come up with your own thing that like, could just be the next entry on that list, right? For me at least, the whole point of like, buying a game is like, I want something that I like, can't essentially come up with by myself, you know? Because I like to be surprised, I like to be sort of challenged, I like to be inspired, and so I think a really good game is one that you sort of like, read it, and you're like, okay, like, there's great things to use in here that I'm excited to use. I also, after having read this, am coming up with my own ideas. Like, equally long, if not longer, list of things that like, fit into this perfectlySam: Bring the vibes of your small town. Nico: Yeah, exactly, that I could also use. It's like, and so it's like, it's kind of funny that like, for me at least, the mark of a good game is like oh yeah, you both want to use everything that's contained in it, and also you immediately get way more of your own ideas than you could ever use when you're running the game.Sam: Yeah. Next?Nico: Yes. Act 1. Sam: I love this little guy, I love Wes he's just kind of a pathetic little dude, and I feel sad for him.Nico: It's so funny, too, because this particular little guy, like, doesn't look very pathetic to me. Like, he looks like he's kind of doing okay. Sam: I definitely like drew, like all the art in the book I drew, and I did it by just drawing a lot of little heads, and then assigning them to people. Like, there were a couple where they were defining details about how the people looked, that I knew I needed to draw specifically. But in general, I just drew a bunch of heads and then doled them out, and like, this is the one that ended up on Wes. And, I think that the contrast between, like, in my mind, Wes is this skinny, lanky, little kid, you know, he's like early 20s, finally making it on his own, and he has no idea what the hell's going on with the world, and he always looked up to you, and he's finally getting out of town. And then he's, he's like overcompensating with the beard for the fact that he's like balding really early, and like, you know, he's, I don't know, like, I think the contrast is just fun.Nico: I love this whole life that you have for this, this little, this little guy, like, which is, I can't stress this enough, mostly not contained in the text,Sam: Yeah. yeah. I think a good NPC is like that. I think it's really hard to transcribe the characters we get in our heads.Nico: yeah, Sam: I really like the, the pun in the Town Crier, I mean like the Town Crier feels like a horror movie trope, like the old man who's gonna be like, You got don't go up to the cabin! But it's also, like I wrote that down first and then just started describing this Wes guy and then I was like I'm gonna just like make a pun out of this.This is something I did all the time while writing this, was I had, like, a little oracle going, actually, at a certain point, like, in the same way that you would in a solo game with an oracle. Like, if I was stuck for an idea, I would just roll on the oracle table and then, like, fill in a detail that was somehow related to the oracle. Nico: Mhm. Sam: That, that didn't happen here, but the idea of, Oh, I want a little bit more description for this guy, like, what should I do? I, like, pulled the word crier, and then was like, Oh, that's really interesting, like, when would this guy have cried? Like, oh, that's a great question, let's just, like, put that to the player. I'm always, like, a thing in screenwriting that is really hard to do, and that I'm always looking for is, like, really good, pithy character descriptions.Like, a friend of mine loves the one like, this is a woman who always orders fajitas at a Mexican restaurant because she loves the attention that she gets when the fajitas come out.She hates fajitas. And that description just says Nico: That's Sam: much. It's so good, right? And that one's even a little bit long for like a screenplay, but it'd be great for like an RPG thing, right?And something about like Here's a little bit about this guy. You remember when he was crying once, like a baby? What was the deal with that? Like, it's such a, like, defines everything else about him. Like, I, I, I'm really proud that.Nico: Yeah. No, that's, that's how I felt a little bit with I ran Vampire Cruise at Big Bad Con this year. And that game has some of, like, the best random NPC generating tables that I've, like, ever seen and played with.I remember one specifically, it was, like, I was like, rolling to generate a passenger, and I think it was like, the secrets part of the table, or something like that, and what I rolled was like, regrets that she never got to see the dinosaurs, and it's like, what does that mean?Like, like, Sam: She had a traumatic experience at a science museum as a kid, or maybe she's like 10 million years old, like, I don't...Nico: or, yeah, or she's just like a weirdo who like really loves dinosaurs? It's like, it's, Like, it really gives you sort of what you need to just sort of like, spin a world out of that specific detail. Sam: It's weird because I like completely agree with you, and you know, I was tooting my own horn about like this question about Wes sobbing and also like, in every single spread of this thing, I'm taking like two full pages to talk about like one or two NPCs, which is a terrible way to do the thing that we are talking about doing. Like,Nico: That is true, that is, it must be said,Sam: it makes it feel so much more like a short story, or maybe like a solo game, right? It's like, eh, spend two pages, like, getting to know this guy. Nico: who won't come up again, spoiler alert, Sam: Yeah, it feels like the right call for this thing where like, I mean it's like the text is forcing you to sit with the memory of this guy, it's like forcing you to come in and like spend more time than you would like to like back at home with these people.And there's some like location context built into all these descriptions too, and we like learn about the bakery thing here and like old stories and stuff. And like, already it's like, do we need that shit to run this game? Like, absolutely not, like, get, get out of the way, like, but also, I don't know, it feels right?And it's one of the things that makes all this weird and, you know, unrunnable.Nico: Which is of course the goal, we don't want people to run this. Yeah, no, that's something that I've thought about in my own games as well, is, is, and just sort of like, my life, I guess, is sort of like, what makes a place that place, you know, like, what makes a town a town, what makes a city a city, like, is it the people who live there? Is it the places? Like, again, kind of back to the sort of Ship of Theseus metaphor, it's like, if everyone you know leaves, and a lot of the stores turnover, like, is that still your hometown? Like... Does your relationship to it change?And so I, in defense of, of what we're doing here, it makes a lot of sense to spend so much time thinking about the people and the places that are here because that also basically is the game, right?Like, like, this is not a dungeon crawl, right? Like, this is not a hack and slash thing, It's not a dungeon crawl, like, Sam: it's a person crawl. Nico: Yeah, exactly, you're yeah, the point of you coming home is you're trying to find Sidra, the person who sent you this postcard, asking you to come home, and yeah, you're basically doing a point crawl, trying to find this person.And then there are various conditions that need to be in place for you to actually find them = And yeah, so it's like, using more words than a sort of your standard OSR like dungeon crawl or point crawl or whatever, or hex crawl, but like, it's kind of the same way where it's like, yeah, but like, that's the game, that's the adventure, like, Sam: yeah, yeah. Another detail here I'm really proud of is the like, offhand remark about how Wes and Sidra aren't talking for what are probably romantic reasons. Because the implication, there's like a strong implication that you, player, have some sort of romantic history with Sidra, like, whether it was ever consummated or not. And I love the just sort of, like, offhand, Wes and Sidra had a thing that didn't work out, because it both... leaves open your potential romantic relationship with Sidra, but also like complicates it and like darkens it from whatever sort of nostalgic quote unquote pure like memory of it you had.And I love that it just sort of brings a little complexity into what happens when you leave for 15 years. And then like what it feels like when you like, hear, oh yeah, your ex has been like, dating someone for a couple years. What were we talking about? Like just that, like sometimes like a bolt of like, information about like, someone from your past that like, you care a lot about will just hit you and you'll be like, oh, wait, what? And we're just I'm supposed to just like, take that and move on? Like, yeah, yeah, Nico: It's also a very small town, right, where it's a sort of like, oh yeah, passing reference to this because everyone knows this already, right? Like, this is old news as well as, like, in a small town, it's like, there's a small pool of people your age that you're interested in, so, not like you're gonna get with all of them inevitably, but it's like, yeah, there's a pretty high chance that you might.Last thing I did wanna say on this, do you wanna share what Wes's name was in the first draft of this that I received?Sam: What was it? I don't rememberNico: It was Glup Shitto. It was, it was one of the first comments I left! It was one of the first comments I left! I was like, Sam, you've gotta know this can't be the final thing, right?Sam: knew it couldn't be the final name. But there was something really funny to me about like the one person who like doesn't fit into town, like this little fucking Star Wars fanboy like schmuck kid is just Glup Shitto. And he's leaving town cuz like when you got that name, it doesn't fit anymore. You gotta get the fuck out of there.No wonder the town couldn't absorb him. His name was Glup Shitto.Nico: I want to say, like, I might have, like, made my first round of comments because I was, like, yeah, feeling the same way of, like, okay, obviously this is not the finalSam: yeah, yeah, I just didn't change it and you were likebruh Nico: and then, yeah, and then you, like, made changes based on the comments that I left, and I went back to it, and I'm like, it's still Glup Shitto. Like, it simply can't be this! It's not allowed! It's, it's not legal! Like, Sam: there ought to be a law.Nico: yeah.Sam: Alright, let's do Act 2 gosh.Yeah, so I made this little map. I like the little map. This is just my hometown, incidentally. Like, there's so much in this that is just, like, pulling details directly from my hometown. That oracle that I mentioned earlier, like, Northfield, Minnesota was, like, one of the things on the oracle. And you can see that here in like, the riverwalk and this little bridge over it was very Northfield. the Rube, which we're getting to next, these two bars, the kind of cowboy themed bar thing was a thing.Nico: Again, it's a very small town of just like, no sort of reasonable business person would have these specific Sam: yeah, but they, they exist here for some reason Nico: it almost feels like the kind of thing where it's like, like they can exist in a really small town, because it's sort of like, well they're the only things here, and they can exist in like New York City Sam: yeah. Nico: everything's in New York city, and like every kind of place is there, but like anywhere in between, people would just be like, I don't understand, and then it goes out of business,Sam: Exactly. Yeah. Yeah, doctors always also a big portion of my childhood and my past always coming up in my stuff just because I spent so much time in hospitals as a kid. So the, inclusion of a doctor here is also very much something coming out of my hometown.I like the little mechanic here of, like, rolling and you, like, add one every, every time. I think that's a nice sort of way to handle trying to find Sidra. Nico: as like a classic Nico mechanic 'cause I simply haven't made and published that many things. But in my mind, my narcissistic fantasy, it is a classic me mechanic.Sam: I believe that came from you.Nico: I fucking love a table that like evolves over time.And it's not like I invented it, but like, I think my more standard thing is sort of like you have a table of like 12 things, and then you change which die you roll on it, you know, it's like, oh you can do like a d4 through d12 or whatever and that's like, I really like the ability to sort of go back to a table and, like, use it multiple times as opposed to, like, Okay, we have one table for this, we have a different table for that, you know.Sam: Additional persons. I really like this format for sort of generic NPCs, like, I'm not gonna tell you anything about this person, but I am gonna tell you what you think about them and your relationship to them.I think it's a really cool way of doing... Oh, do you just need to, like, bring someone in? You, like, met someone on the street or whatever? In a lot of other settings, you would just have, like, a random person, and it would be, like, the Vampire Cruise thing. If you give them an interesting detail in here, it'd be a cool thing.But I think, especially in, like, a small town format, the, like, here's your relationship to this person, because everyone knows everyone, and, every character that comes in, like, is gonna have to inspire some kind of feeling and past in you. I think this works really cool, reallyNico: It also feels very sort of true to life in terms of, at least, how I often GM things. Someone will be like, hey, can I, like, ask just, like, the next person I see on the street what they know about this thing? And I'm like, I mean, I fuckin I guess, like, it'll shock you to learn I don't have a name for that person, but, you know, I just have to, like, come up with, like, here's a weird voice, and like, a random thing they know, and like here's a name, Sam: This is a great way to turn that experience back on the player.Nico: exactly, yeah, there's this random person, you're like, alright, this is someone who owes you an apology, why is that?Like, Sam: yeah, Nico: I also wanna say that I feel like this was actually a relatively late addition to theSam: Yeah, it was. I always intended to write these, but it was like the last thing that I wrote.Nico: Yeah.Sam: Yeah.Nico: There was definitely some time when I sort of came back and looked at it, and all of a sudden there was this relatively large additional persons section in here, and I was like, huh, interesting.Sam: Yeah. I'm happy with how it came out. I think these are my best little guys. Nico: Oh yeah, Sam: I really like the unfinishedness of these little guys that you can project a little bit of yourself onto them while there's still some, like, major details there. This someone you seek vengeance upon looks a lot like a penis, and I don't know how I feel about that one, butNico: I was gonna say, I find that one fascinating as the ide

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Terribly sorry for the very late upload this week, it's been that kind of month, and unfortunately due to scheduling and illness, I could not get it out until now. Another solo episode, hopefully Steve feels better and we can get back to regularly scheduled programming on Monday. Thank you to everyone who subscribed to the channel and has allowed us to reach the 500 subscribers milestone, on to 1000! Please share us with your friends!

Dasha and Tom recommend films in Russian. Important news about the future of the podcast.

Interview with Ira about Ramadan and "gold diggers" in Dubai, opening a guesthouse in Sri Lanka and moving to Brazil. Practice listening in Russian for B1+ levels.

Below is the information on the SensePlayer copied from the HIMS product website: The SensePlayer is more than your normal multimedia player. Read and play your favorite documents and media from a wide variety of supported file types using the tactile keyboard that fits comfortably in the palm of your hand. Access web radio, download books, make high-fidelity recordings, connect and control your mobile device, and so much more. Expect more with the SensePlayer from HIMS. Small on Size, Big on Features Multimedia and Book Reader Can read and play a variety of file types, including TXT, RTF, HTML, HTM, XML, DOC, DOCX, PDF, EPUB, MP3, MP4, WAV, WMA, WMV, OGG, ASF, AAC, AVI, FLAC, 3GP, MPG, M4A, DAISY text and audio, and more. Smart Connect Unique functionality that allows you to use SensePlayer as a tactile Bluetooth keyboard and remote control for your Apple or Android mobile device. You can also optionally send your Smart phone audio via Bluetooth to the SensePlayer. High-quality Recording Record high-quality audio from the internal stereo microphones, or a USB plug and play audio source. Presenter Contact Info Earle Harrison, HIMS National Account Manager Email: earle@hims-inc.com Website: https://hims-inc.com/product/senseplayer/ Support email: support@hims-inc.com

“I fell in love with Armenia and its people.” Stephen from the USA talks about his life and work* in Yerevan. Interview with an American in Russian B1

Ira "About Russian in Russian". Inflation in Russia and England. How has the cost of living in Moscow changed over the year. Learn Russian through authentic content

"We had to take a plane to get to the swimming pool." Roma talks about growing up in a remote Siberian village, moving to the USA and things that amaze him. Learn Russian through authentic materials. B1+

Ira "About Russian in Russian" talks about teaching online and at university, and about time management. How to get all things done and live a fulfilled life.

Justin and Chris discuss the definition of woke and the political and cultural interests at play within the debate. They also talk about Florida legislation in regard to Black fraternities and sororities and Trump's potential arrest. Show Notes:  https://www.myfloridahouse.gov/Sections/Documents/loaddoc.aspx?FileName=h0999.PEW.DOCX&DocumentType=Analysis&BillNumber=0999&Session=2023 https://www.npr.org/2023/03/21/1164823276/what-trumps-arrest-claim-says-about-his-hold-on-politics-and-the-2024-election https://www.newsweek.com/define-woke-bethany-mandel-conservative-book-1788538 Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Глаголы движения в РКИ. About the difficulties of moving, the "betrayal" of the Motherland and cultural shock. Interview with Marina. Learn Russian verbs of motion through authentic materials.

Blog Post Real School Choice & Conservative Chimpanzees Introduction Joe Biden recently got a bunch of Republicans to do what Democrats have been trying to do for decades: get them to embrace socialism. Ok, most Republicans are soft-socialists nowadays anyway, but Sleepy Joe got most of the Republican side of Congress to stand up and cheer for socialism during his recent State of the Union address. He got them to boo his accusation that they weren’t true blue socialists, and then when he asked if they were in, they stood up and cheered. Biden played them like a drum, and the next day CNN had Republican representatives doubling and tripling down on it. It was masterful, if it wasn’t so sad. Of course the topic was Social Security and whether the Federal Government should take care of our parents and grandparents. Republicans are idiots. Republicans are fools. There was a masterful opportunity to take and they missed it. They took the bait. They bowed and scraped at the altar of the Almighty Sugar Daddy State, almost as if they had already completely forgotten about 2020. It would have been a glorious moment for conservatives to stand up and speak clearly into the microphone. How many of our parents and grandparents died alone in nursing homes? How many were locked down, isolated, deprived of personal care, familial affection, and honor? Don’t you understand that our twisted nursing home culture is a direct result of looking to the state to take care of our parents and grandparents? Yes, we absolutely want to sunset Social Security. Absolutely. All day long, every day of the week. Is there no conservative willing to stand up for our parents and grandparents, who will insist that everything the Federal government does that is outside of its God-ordained assignment is inefficient, cumbersome, and ultimately sucks at whatever it is they are trying to do? All you need to do is go down to your local DMV. OK, how about the IRS? Biden had the audacity to claim that as the (apparently) new CEO of every major industry in America he was ordering sweeping changes, prohibiting various fees and surcharges, particularly for the airline industry, including for the privilege of having your family sit together. Biden is tired, he says, of treating children like baggage. But of course if a mother wanted to treat one of her more challenging children like baggage, why couldn’t she? I mean, an unborn child requires a whole lot of energy and care, and with Biden’s help, he believes she ought to be able to go down to the local Planned Parenthood (and for a small fee), unload that so-called “baggage.” Where was I? Sorry, I got a bit distracted. But the point is that the same goons who can’t tell the difference between baggage and children want to take care of your elderly parents and grandparents, and the whole Republican side of congress stood up and cheered, like a bunch of chimpanzees clapping for bananas. Arizona ESAs & My Vigorous Misgivings Ok, but here’s the real point of this post: a whole bunch of conservatives are doing the same thing with “school choice” and Educational Savings Accounts (ESAs). I posted a lengthy thread last week after reading through the Arizona ESA program which is currently being heralded by many conservatives and school choice advocates as the “model” legislation. But the really short version can be summarized by the immortal words of Admiral Ackbar in Star Wars: “It’s a trap!” But I don’t merely want to repeat what I said previously about all my misgivings. All those misgivings are still alive and well and they’ve even grown a third eye and developed a vigorous twitch. But what I want to do is quickly review my findings from the Arizona ESA legislation and then bring this thing in for a landing with a plea for conservatives to see a really glorious opportunity in the “school choice” discussion if only we don’t act like most of our Republican leaders in congress, so long as we don’t bark and clap like a seal simply because they say some conservative-ish sounding words. Don’t get sucked into embracing more socialism by Joe Biden or his Republican colleagues. Yeah, as the kids like to say, that was a pretty sick burn. So first, my findings: While the Arizona ESA program claims that “each student’s funding follows the student,” the legislation only actually allows for $6,500 of the student’s funding to follow the student. I might have a tiny ounce of hope that this was at least moving in the right direction, except that more than $11,000 is spent by the state and local taxpayers on each public school student, and that doesn’t count all federal dollars on top of that, all of which continue going to the government schools. For every student that opts into the Arizona ESA program, over $600 additional dollars are immediately added back to the public school that they left, even though that student no longer attends that school. So tips galore. And if that weren’t enough, the fact sheet defending the Arizona ESAs boasts: “In fact, the rapid growth in Arizona’s ESA program has tracked closely with major increases in per pupil funding for public schools over the past decade…” As proof of that trajectory continuing, the fact sheet assures us that a companion bill has been introduced in the Arizona legislature to add $400 million additional funds to public schools, designated for all public school districts and charter schools. Pause here for just a moment for me to make a comment about conservatives and rhetoric. When I posted these findings on Facebook, a friend from another state pushed back a bit about my Debby-downer appraisal of the program and linked to several conservative sites praising the Arizona legislation. I cheerfully clicked on the link, and the first sentence I read was this: “First, the left told us that school choice would decimate the funding of public education. But then, Arizona passed the nation’s first universal education savings account (ESA) program last year, and funding for the state’s public schools still went up nearly a billion dollars even as tens of thousands of kids have joined the ESA program.” Now regardless of the exact details of the ESA program or where the funding is coming from, you just lost me. This website is a Republican clapping like a seal for Joe Biden socialism. At the very least, this website doesn’t understand what conservatives actually want. I don’t want to increase funding for government schools. I want to decrease funding for government schools. I want to dismantle government schools. I want to see them closed down. What’s the word I’m looking for? Ah right, I want to see government schools sunset. Why? Because I’m not a communist. I’m not sure how to break this to you, but one of the central tenets of Marxism in the Communist Manifesto is “Free education for all children in public schools.” And of course by “free” Marx meant “pounded out of your flesh in taxes whether you use them or not.” Now, I’m not a communist so that is also why I am not a revolutionary, and I would be happy to slowly sunset public education. I would be happy to nickel and dime the damn thing to death. But what I don’t want to do is to take incremental steps to invigorate, strengthen, and expand government education corruption and power. When some of my more revolutionary friends wondered why I’m willing to end abortion incrementally but not public education, I replied: “I actually would support true incremental steps toward school choice, but if a 15wk abortion ban gave $400mil to Planned Parenthood, I would oppose it for the same reason.” You don’t dismantle something by giving it more money. When I asked my friend about this massive increase in spending on education, the reply said that this represents the ordinary increases in education budgets, which might be true, but if so, I’m still against that. If an educational system has fewer students, they should have fewer dollars, not more. The incentives here are perverse. Less for more? That isn’t capitalism. That isn’t a free market. And ultimately all that money has to come from taxes. If this continues, tax payers could find themselves paying the same amount of money as before (or more) even with the $6500 dollar ESA boost. Ok, back to the Arizona ESA program. Not only is millions and perhaps a billion more dollars in public school funding a massive increase in the government school budget and funding in Arizona, the program is also the beginning of government oversight of private schools and homeschooling. The text of the Arizona ESA expansion bill explicitly requires that the curriculum ESAs are spent on must be approved by the Arizona department of education. Perhaps this approval will begin as something relatively benign, but if you think it’s going to stay that way, you haven’t been paying attention. Next, a “qualified school” includes your standard government “non-discrimination” clause, currently specifying race, color, or national origin. But if you don’t think that will soon include sexual orientation, sexual identity, and puppy-lovers, I’ve got a beachfront property in Kansas to sell you. I firmly believe in school choice, and I also believe that our actual education dollars should follow the students, but I’m not aware of any “school choice” program that is honestly allowing the actual student funding to follow the student wherever their parents choose to send them to school. Of course, it should be remembered that tax dollars actually belong to the tax payers, and if we’re talking about money for education, real school choice would include the freedom not to pay taxes for schools we don’t use. I know this is a really radical notion, but I think it’s a winning point: people shouldn’t be forced to pay for goods and services they don’t use. Parents shouldn’t be forced to pay for schools they have decided are not best for their children. We don’t force parents to send checks to certain doctors and medical providers, regardless of where they receive their medical care. Why would we do that with education? The name of this is socialism. At the very least, if we cannot completely opt out (monetarily) of schools that we have decided are not best for our children, how about tax credits that simply refund our real tax dollars that we didn’t actually use on government schools? I don’t think they should have taken our money for a service we don’t use in the first place, but I would certainly be OK with at least getting that money back. That would seem to me to be an incremental step in the right direction. All of this demonstrates that government education is a mafia with a monopoly using our tax-payer dollars to rig the system and make it more difficult for hard working Americans to provide the education they believe is best for their kids. Perhaps the one silver lining in all of this is simply the indication that government school mobsters can be bought off. I would urge somebody with connections to broker a deal with some big tech company (where you at Elon?), offering to infuse some state coffers with bazillions of dollars in exchange for two things: a number of seats on the state board of education and the real freedom of choice for parents to completely opt out of the system: keeping their tax dollars and spending their money on whatever educational program they desire. Thus far my diatribe on Twitter, closing with “In the meantime, remember that everything the government funds is inefficient, corrupt, has strings attached, and ultimately goes woke and bad.” Now I really don’t mean this post as merely a whine-session, and I know there are many well-meaning conservatives (that are not Chimpanzees) that are simply interested in seeing the government monopoly broken. And count me as a reasonable incrementalist. I don’t need a perfect bill to support. I’m no perfectionist. I’m a reformer; not a revolutionary. All I need is a bill that actually nudges us in the direction of real school choice, real educational freedom, and a truly free market for education. Conclusion So I’ll end here simply with a plea for conservative rhetoric. I think we really do have an important opportunity right in front of us with the school choice discussion. And I am not at all calling for conservatives to be purists who can’t be pleased with any compromise. But we also need to have a very clear idea of what we are aiming for. If we are not aiming for true educational freedom, true school choice, which means parents having the true freedom to use their own money to pay for whatever education they deem best for their children, then we will not know which direction we’re going or even if we’re making any progress at all. When you have no destination in mind, anywhere seems like progress. I think there’s a glorious opportunity for real progress in terms of practical policies, and I think with that opportunity is an opportunity to change the conversation. Let’s talk about real educational choice and freedom. Let’s talk about the sovereignty of parents over the educational choices of their children. Virginia Governor Youngkin was arguably elected partially on the steam of the claims of educational fascists who claimed that the experts and school boards and departments of education trumped parents, especially in the wake of a transgender bathroom assault. Do you see that opening? They are cramming CRT and sexual confusion down the throats of preschoolers. If Christian and conservative parents stand up and say enough is enough, we can make a difference. But the goal needs to be clear: we are not socialists; we are not communists. We believe in freedom of choice, parental sovereignty, and we refuse to be charged for an education system that hates us and hates our values. We want to keep our hard earned money and spend it on the education that we believe is best for our children. We want a level playing field, a truly free market for education, with schools competing without government intrusion, without the government putting its fingers on the scales. Let’s change the conversation. Let’s brainstorm. Let’s invite our brightest minds and legislators together, and let’s craft something better. Let’s craft something that is actually moving towards freedom. And I’m not just saying this, I’m having conversations with key players to do this very thing, and I hope to have more to share on this very soon. Read it all for yourself: https://azsbe.az.gov/empowerment-scholarship-account-esa-program https://www.azleg.gov/legtext/55leg/2R/summary/H.HB2853_061422_WM.DOCX.htm https://www.azleg.gov/legtext/55leg/2R/bills/HB2853P.pdf

Interview with Sasha in slow Russian about his work as a programmer, search for an apartment in Kazakhstan and love for Russian rock. Learn Russian through authentic materials.

My boss attacked me. Ksyusha talks about the Russian event industry and the terrible things that happened to her at work. Learn Russian through podcast. B1+

Living in the moment. How Arthur left everything in Russia and moved to Thailand. Learn Russian through podcast. B1+

Genealogy and Cossacks. Why Russians don't know their ancestry. Arthur talks about his family search. Learn Russian through podcast. B1+

Interview with Daniil about his childhood in Kamchatka and travels around Ukraine. Philosophy and the meaning of life

Moving without stress. Kaya from Japan shares her experience. Interview in slow Russian.