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There is consensus among SOTA listeners that we don't care for Presidential pardons. But we usually understand why certain people get pardons. Not so with Trump this week.
In Facebook, it's easy to see where your audience lives. It's harder to explain why the second and third biggest audiences for our show are not even in the US
Why did Trump pardon the Chrissleys? Why are we even still doing pardons? Where are the damn Epstein files already?! What's it really like driving a Cybertruck? Trump and Musk are having a very public breakup (finally); Shout out to the SOTA listeners in West Africa; Fox News floats "punishing" media that didn't cover Biden the right way
SOTA listener Arthur sees a double standard on the media's handling of the Qatari luxury jet story - but turns out he doesn't have all the facts
Where do they keep all the money at in banks, anyway? Financial expert Scoot brings the thunder in chat with bank president; SOTA listeners calling for heads to roll at OPSO after big jailbreak; You should be raw-dogging, not bare beating. You read that right; Once a hippie, always a hippie - Happy Birthday Susan!
Hello and welcome to episode 69 of The DX Mentor – A discussion with Jim, WB2REM. Thank you for joining us. I'm Bill, AJ8B.If this is the first time you are joining us, Welcome! We have a back catalog covering many aspects of DX. Please check us out. If you like what you find, please subscribe to always be notified of a new podcast! Another way to keep in touch and to see what we are up to is via the DX Mentor Facebook page. I will be posting aboutupcoming podcasts as well as other DX events so please follow us. Our guest today is Jim, WB2REM. Jim is an experienced, passionate operator and the conversation should be lively and informative.Here is the Mission Statement for this DXPedition: "In the spirit of the 7163/7156 MHZ DXGroup, this DXpedition was formed to provide the Amateur Radio Community with the opportunity of working the Faroe Islands on 6-160 Meters. We plan to be active on SSB, CW and FT8. We also hope to get to know the Amateur community in the Faroe Islands and when possible, explore the natural wonders of the islands, when not operating. Some members also plan to work SOTA and possiblyPOTA from the Faroe Islands." Jim and the team will be QRV from the Faroe Islands, June 1st to the 10th.Jim exhibited excellent patience when we were trying to schedule this podcast as we had to cancel twice. Unfortunately, the date that we finally agreed upon was adate that Joe had a personal conflict and could not be with us. Boy, did I miss him!Resources mentioned include:DXPedition Website - https://faroeis.com/7163 Net - https://7163net.com/Marlin Brandohttps://greylineperformance.com/blogs/news/famous-ham-radio-prepper-marlon-brando-fo5gj-tropical-south-pacific?srsltid=AfmBOop-SjYxYwMEvIhtp7VhxvI_Gzo0YQdI6M7d-JnJC4ZfMgShBZC3New World of Amateur Radio Videohttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LJDz2UlcY58Psychology of a QRMer - Page 13https://www.swodxa.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/04/Issue4_03012018A.pdfDX Cop - Page 11https://www.swodxa.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/05/Issue5_050118.pdfSouthwest Ohio DX Assoc. https://www.swodxa.orgDaily DX https://www.dailydx.com/DX Engineering https://www.dxengineering.com/Icom https://www.icomamerica.com/IC-905 https://www.icomamerica.com/lineup/products/IC-905/IC-9700 https://www.icomamerica.com/lineup/products/IC-9700/IC-7610 https://www.icomamerica.com/lineup/products/IC-7610/IC-7300 https://www.icomamerica.com/lineup/products/IC-7300/
Sota el títol 'Joan Domènech, el mestre que transmet cultura', l'acte es farà aquest dijous (19 hores).
This week on the Toy Power Podcast; we shine light on quite an old property; that is The Shadow! From its origins in Pulp Comic Format to the Hollywood Film in 1994 staring Alec Baldwin. That Film was classified big enough to spawn a corresponding Toyline from Kenner. Trent unpacks what was great, and what was left in the dark, around this neat property. Then we switch gears, and have a FULL-ON Spoiler lead discussion around the new Marvel Film that is: Thunderbolts - or New Avengers?!? We run though how each character played their part; the tone of the film & what we all overall thought of it too. Keen to hear from your thoughts on this Film too!Support the show: http://patreon.com/toypowerpodcastSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
A Sardanes sota el sol passarem una bona estona escoltant sardanes i si algú ho desitja, ballant-les! Juntes redescobrirem la dansa més bella de totes les danses que es fan i es desfan. Selecció de les cançons i presentació a càrrec de Francesca Isern i Pepita Brugada. podcast recorded with enacast.com
A Sardanes sota el sol passarem una bona estona escoltant sardanes i si algú ho desitja, ballant-les! Juntes redescobrirem la dansa més bella de totes les danses que es fan i es desfan. Selecció de les cançons i presentació a càrrec de Francesca Isern i Pepita Brugada. podcast recorded with enacast.com
Después de una semana intensa marcada por el gran apagón del 28 de abril, volvemos a la carga con el episodio 113, donde retomamos los contenidos que teníamos preparados… ¡y añadimos muchos más! SOTA to SOTA desde Portugal Abrimos con un QSO muy especial entre Juan Mondejar (EA9ADD) y Julio Iroa (EA1FTW), que coincidieron activando desde dos cimas distintas en Portugal. ¡SOTA to SOTA de lujo! Entrevista con Mariano Álvarez (Argentina) Charlamos con Mariano, miembro de la comunidad de mecenas del podcast, que se encuentra en pleno proceso de sacar su licencia de radioaficionado en Argentina. Nos cuenta cómo funciona allí todo el proceso, desde el estudio hasta el indicativo. ¡Muy interesante y con un puntito de envidia sana! Diploma Faros Comunidad Valenciana Te presentamos esta nueva iniciativa organizada por URE Burriana y URE Torrent: 21 faros, un diploma, trofeos para los más activos… y toda la información práctica para participar. Una actividad ideal para este verano. Actividad QRP desde Canarias Escuchamos algunos fragmentos de la última actividad QRP mensual del grupo Conecta Radio, liderado por EA8CAZ, conectando Canarias con la península con apenas 5 vatios. ¡Un logro técnico y humano! Informe AER – Mayo 2025 Cerramos el episodio con el resumen mensual de la Asociación Española de Radioescucha, con las estaciones de onda corta que podremos sintonizar este mes. Ideal para los amantes de la escucha internacional. Además, en la introducción reflexiono sobre el apagón, el QRM —o la ausencia de él— y cómo estoy preparando mi estación para futuras situaciones: baterías, inversores, modos digitales y más. ¡Mucho por explorar en los próximos episodios! Apoya el podcast y únete a nuestra comunidad privada: Si te gusta este podcast y quieres apoyarlo, puedes convertirte en mecenas desde solo 1,99 € al mes en https://cqenfrecuencia.com/apoyar. Al hacerlo, también formarás parte de nuestra comunidad privada de Telegram. NOTAS DEL EPISODIO - Web “Diploma Faros de Valencia” https://hfradio.es - Web de ENACOM (Argentina) https://www.enacom.gob.ar/ Envía tus preguntas, propuestas de temas o lo que quieras: https://cqenfrecuencia.com/contacto/ O en nuestro canal de Telegram: https://t.me/cqenfrecuencia Y no olvidéis de visitar nuestra web: https://cqenfrecuencia.com No olvides el like, subscribirte y/o darle a la campanita para no perderte ningún episodio de nuestro podcast! Nos encontrarás también en Spotify y Youtube.
Yhdysvalloissa Trumpin hallinto on ryhtynyt leikkaamaan yliopistojen rahoitusta. Leikkauksia ja rahoitusjäädytyksiä on perusteltu juutalaisvastaisuuden kitkemisellä. Arvostelijoiden mukaan se on kuitenkin vain tekosyy yliopistojen rankaisemiseen, sillä perimmäinen motiivi olisi yrittää saada yliopisto-opetus hallinnon ideologiaa tukevaksi. Ohjelmassa haastatellaan lukuisia yhdysvaltalaisprofessoreita, miten Trumpin hallinnon leikkaukset heidän yliopistoissaan näkyvät. Lisäksi kaksi Suomessa toimivaa professoria arvioi, kuinka Yhdysvaltain yliopistojen kuristamisella on myös rajat ylittäviä vaikutuksia. Maailmanpolitiikan arkipäivää -ohjelmassa pohditaan, mitä yliopistojen leikkaukset ovat Yhdysvalloille tekemässä. Ohjelman ovat toimittaneet Juri von Bonsdorff ja Paula Vilén. Äänitarkkailijana on Panu Willman.
A Sardanes sota el sol passarem una bona estona escoltant sardanes i si algú ho desitja, ballant-les! Juntes redescobrirem la dansa més bella de totes les danses que es fan i es desfan. Selecció de les cançons i presentació a càrrec de Francesca Isern i Pepita Brugada. podcast recorded with enacast.com
La ciutat de Balaguer mostrarà aquest diumenge la seva solidaritat en la IX Fira dels Somnis contra el càncer infantil. La diada començarà amb la cursa caminada solidària, més gran de les Terres de Lleida, amb una inscripció que espera superar les 3.000 samarretes venudes La Comunitat Energètica de Vallfogona i el Veïnat del Centre Històric de Balaguer signen un acord per compartir energia renovable CCOO i UGT reclamen la reducció de la jornada laboral en una manifestació a Lleida en el marc del Dia del Treballador. Sota el lema ‘Protegir les conquestes i guanyar el futur’ la mobilització ha recorregut l’eix comercial de la ciutat Una plaga de peixos gat col•lapsa la xarxa de reg en una finca de Vallfogona de Balaguer El Tribunal Suprem ha condemnat a 4 anys de presó un monitor per abusar sexualment d’una nena de 13 anys durant unes colònies a Ager el juliol del 2019 Agenda Balaguer La Casa d’Andalusia de Balaguer celebra aquest dissabte la novena edició de la Feria de Abril Aquest dissabte se celebra Casal cívic i comunitari Balaguer-Eixample, el Mes del Comerç Just Arriba la Fira de Titelles de Lleida a Balaguer amb dues companyies internacionals que es presentaran dos espectacles en una mateix funció a el proper diumenge a la sala La Mercantil Agenda comarca Penelles ha donat aquest dijous el tret de sortida de la 10a edició del Gargar amb el bateig d’un nou capgròs com a emblema del festival. La programació preveu tallers artístics, espectacles musicals, activitats culturals i l’elaboració de murals en viu Vallfogona de Balaguer escalfa fogons per a la tercera edició de la Fira Lo Caragol food, aquest proper cap de setmana, amb el xef Sergi de Meià com a gran novetat del concurs gastronòmic L’Hostal Nou inaugura aquest dissabte un mural dedicat als 80, “EL MURAL DELS NENS DELS 80” La plaça de l’Ajuntament d’Artesa de Segre es transformarà aquest dissabte en l’escenari de la 3a edició del Primavera Wine, un esdeveniment ja consolidat que aposta per apropar el vi català i la gastronomia de proximitat a tots els públics, especialment al jovent Esports El primer equip del Club Futbol Balaguer juga aquest dissabte a Terrassa. El juvenil ho fa al municipal contra el Sant Cugat B Última jornada de lliga per al Teixidó Associats, del Club Bàsquet Balaguer, que s’ho juga tot contra l’Sferic Terrassa i quedant pendent del que passi diumenge a Tremp per evitar el descens El Comtat d’Urgell de futbol sala juga diumenge a les 6 de la tarda al 1r d’Octubre de Balaguer contra el Sant Joan Despí. A Primera Catalana el Balaguer Vedruna va guanyar dimarts 8 a 2 a l’Agramunt i el Contat B juga a Castellfollit. El Contat Femení rep al Golmés El dissabte dia 3 de maig tindrà lloc a partir de les 10h del matí a la Piscina coberta la 13a edició del Trofeu de natació Albert Barri, un trofeu nacional català de natació amb diferents categories i distàncies Èxit de participació a la Trail Lo Meló d’Artesa de Segre, prova puntuable per a la Lliga de la Noguera. Abel Carretero i Cristina Gardeñes es van adjudicar la categoria reina de 16km i Óscar Celma i Mireia Capdevila la 10 kmDescarregar àudio (51:57 min / 24 MB)
This week on the Toy Power Podcast; we welcome back Nick Greenslade; to assist us to break-down all things Star Wars related. Kicking things off, with his opinion of who he would have chosen as the candidates for the SW Villains side of things on: The Team.... Then without missing a beat; we take the next challenge of carefully selecting another round of The Team for the Star Wars Heroes campaign - keeping them tightly contained to the Original Kenner releases as our choices. Leader, Muscle, Specialist, Wheelman & an Iconic Vehicle. Then continuing the Star Wars themed banter, we discuss more of the visual announcements coming from SW Celebration & what the future of Star Wars might be... A fun healthy round table chat with fantastic knowledge & true passion from Nick! This Is The Way!Support the show: http://patreon.com/toypowerpodcastSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
A Sardanes sota el sol passarem una bona estona escoltant sardanes i si algú ho desitja, ballant-les! Juntes redescobrirem la dansa més bella de totes les danses que es fan i es desfan. Selecció de les cançons i presentació a càrrec de Francesca Isern i Pepita Brugada. podcast recorded with enacast.com
Mitä seurauksia sodalla on jälkipolville? Moni meistä on kuullut isovanhempien kertomuksia sodasta ja lukenut tai katsonut Tuntemattoman sotilaan. Sota on osa yhteistä kansallista muistiamme. Mutta voivatko sodan kauhut siirtyä kuultujen kertomusten lisäksi jälkipolville myös perimässä? Nyt asiaa tutkitaan historian- ja epigenetiikan tutkijoiden toimesta. Historioitsijat ovat laatineet sotilaiden kantakorteista kattavan tietokannan, ja nyt se yhdistetään ensimmäistä kertaa maailmassa laajoihin terveystietoaineistoihin. Asiantuntijoina ovat historiantutkija Ville Kivimäki Suomalaisen Kirjallisuuden seurasta, tutkijatohtori Ilari Taskinen kokemuksen historian huippuyksiköstä Tampereen yliopistosta ja akatamiatutkija Emma Raitoharju Tampereen yliopistosta. Toimittajana on Pirjo Koskinen.
How many followers on Scoot's Facebook page are in a race to see who can post the dumbest, meanest, most pointless comment?
Balaguer celebrarà aquest cap de setmana una nova edició de Fira Q, un certamen que, un any més, comptarà amb els principals sectors econòmics de la ciutat i del territori. Enguany, i tenint en compte que Catalunya ostenta aquest 2025 la distinció de Regió Mundial de la Gastronomia, la fira posarà en valor la gran riquesa gastronòmica del territori i, en especial, de Balaguer i comarca En aquest sentit, el IX Concurs de cuina Josep Mª Morell ‘De la nostra terra al plat’, enguany el plat no serà lliure sinó que es demanarà una recepta sobre la cassola de tros, molt representativa de la comarca de la Noguera La Fira l’inaugurarà el conseller d’Empresa, Miquel Sàmper, i diumenge hi participarà també el conseller d’Agricultura, Òscar Ordeig, que assistirà a la Jornada de la Mel El Consell Comarcal de la Noguera participa a la Fira Q de Balaguer amb 3 estands de les àrees de Promoció Econòmica, Turisme i Oficina Jove El DJ Ruben Fuster serà el cap de cartell de la Fira J d’aquest any, que se celebrarà el dissabte al pavelló Molí de l’Esquerrà i que inclourà també el concurs per escollir els dos DJs que actuaran durant la Transsegre La firma Alemany tornarà a ser present a Fira Q de Balaguer amb una proposta centrada en la innovació, la proximitat i l’alimentació amb valor afegit. La marca d’Os de Balaguer hi presentarà l’evolució de la seva gamma de cremes untables i les begudes infusionades Mà de Sant El ple de la Paeria de Balaguer dona llum verda a l’aprovació dels projectes de reforma del local per a la nova oficina d’atenció al ciutadà i el projecte d’obres per a l’adequació de la futura Caserna de la Guàrdia Urbana. Els dos projectes sumen 723 mil euros d’inversió per als qual es demanarà una subvenció del PUOSC Els sindicats de CCOO i UGT fan una crida a la mobilització a Lleida en el marc l’1 de maig per defensar els drets adquirits, exigir un repartiment “més just” dels beneficis empresarials entre els treballadors i reclamar la reducció de la jornada laboral. Sota el lema ‘Protegir les conquestes i guanyar futur’, la manifestació donarà el tret de sortida a la plaça del Treball a les 12h i finalitzarà a la plaça Paeria de Lleida Asaja reitera la preocupació per les conseqüències de la pedregada a Lleida en una reunió amb Ordeig. El sindicat agrari presenta un document amb catorze punts de reivindicacions de tots els sectors productius Els Canals d’Urgell presenten al•legacions a la proposta de la CHE de reduir un 15’5% la dotació de la infraestructura. Els regants rebutgen la proposta perquè consideren que “no reflecteix les necessitats hídriques del territori” Arrenca una nova temporada de turisme actiu a Lleida amb l’objectiu de consolidar les més de 800.000 activitats anuals, d’un sector que l’any passat va generar un impacte econòmic de gairebé 113 milions El singular tren turístic, el Tren dels Llacs, que connecta la plana de Lleida amb el Prepirineu lleidatà a través d’un atractiu recorregut que travessa gorges, muntanyes i embassaments, iniciarà la temporada aquest dissabte i farà un total de 27 viatges fins al 25 d’octubre Agenda Balaguer La música jazz obre el Pati de la Mercantil aquest divendres amb el pianista nord-americà Jeb Patton, un dels músics més brillants i destacats de l’escena internacional L’Associació Cultural Grup D’Art4 organitza un any més el Concurs de Pintura ràpida. Serà aquest dissabte pels carrers i places de Balaguer El Teatre Municipal de Balaguer acollirà aquest dissabte l’11a edició del Free Style Dance Balaguer, una competició de funky i hip-hop que reunirà al voltant de 600 ballarins d’arreu de les comarques de Ponent i Andorra Agenda Comarca Continuen els actes de la Festa Major a Camarasa, amb el sopar i festes populars, els concerts de dissabte nit i la cercavila i ball orquestral del diumenge Menàrguens celebra aquest cap de setmana els actes de Sant Pere Martir, inclosos dins de la Primavera Cultural, i amb la festa de les cassoles com a màxim exponent Os de Balaguer celebrarà aquest diumenge la Trobada de Campaners, amb la tradicional demostració de tocs de campana, el Toc especial i les activitats paral•leles com la fira d’artesania El Castell del Remei celebrarà diumenge l’Aplec de Primavera. El Cant del Virolai, la conversa literària, l’aperitiu amb música en viu, la degustació de vins, i l’espectacle i taller infantils, seran algunes de les propostes ESPORTS El Club Futbol Balaguer rep diumenge al municipal al Juneda, un equip que es juga la permanència. El Juvenil viatja dissabte a Igualada per competir amb un rival assequible El Q2 Consultors del Club Bàsquet Balaguer rep aquest dissabte al 1r d’Octubre al Barça CBS. El Teixidó Associats jugarà diumenge a la pista del Pia Sabadell El Comtat d’Urgell de futbol sala juga diumenge a Salou. A Primera Catalana el Comtat B rep al Fonollosa i el Balaguer Vedruna juga a La Seu. El Comtat femení juga dissabte a ReusDescarregar àudio (56:21 min / 26 MB)
Hey everyone, Alex here
While there are some cool cool news items to talk too, there's also a certain Celebration taking place in Japan right now... As such we bring on a Star Wars expert Nick G who takes us through all latest Black Series and TVC goodness. Closer to home, we recap our local (and the best) Adelaide Comic and Toy Fair with it's April 2025 edition. Huge thanks as always to Brett and Sarah for their amazing work! Support the show: http://patreon.com/toypowerpodcastSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
KONU BAŞLIKLARI:1. OpenAI, yeni modelleri o3 ve o4-mini'yi duyurdu. Bu modeller, web araması, Python ile veri analizi, görsel okuma ve gerektiğinde görsel içerik oluşturma gibi gelişmiş yeteneklere sahip. Artık yüklenen görselleri sadece açıklamakla kalmıyor, sorulan sorularla birlikte yorumlayabiliyor.
This week on the Toy Power Podcast; we are once again missing Master Frank; but have Special Guest: Chris Canini back in the studio with the usual "Get To Know You Questions". A great insight into what Chris's passions are! Then, without missing a beat,he as brought in a fantastic assortment of Figures, to promote just how awesome the new Jada Street Fighter Toys are!! From M. Bison to Dhalsim (and many more), we annalise just what this Toyline is doing, what it may do in the future & how it compares to older versions of the same figures. Then we move over to latest scores; including more amazing gems from Jada; (courtesy of Chris again); this time in the form of Mega-Man! Another in hand assortment of toys for us all to review on the show. We continue to promote around the room, who has recently scored what, & believe me, there are some exciting items we cover!! For more on Chris Canini, be sure to check out his Instagram pages: @DarkLightCollector @DarkLightTurtleLairSupport the show: http://patreon.com/toypowerpodcastSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
WHY SOTA? At sota we work every day to give you the best. drink. ever. every. time. Why? Because you deserve it. Whether it's time to celebrate (end of soccer season, big moment at work, hanging with friends), or time... The post Minne”SOTA” – Where The Streets Have No Name – Chad Taylor – 914 appeared first on The Cultural Hall Podcast.
Un grup d'investigadors del departament d'Enginyeria Civil i Ambiental de la Universitat Politècnica de Catalunya han publicat un article a la prestigiosa revista científica Science of the Total Environment amb les primeres conclusions dels estudis que han portat a terme a la platja de l'Aiguadolç. L'equip científic ha utilitzat dues tècniques diferents per avaluar la quantitat tant de l'aigua de la surgència superficial, com de la de les nombroses fons submarines de la mateixa platja, on arriba després d'un recorregut sota el massís càrstic del Garraf. L'aportació de nutrients al litoral d'aquest tipus de surgències és fonamental per a la biodiversitat de la costa mediterrània, i Aiguadolç és un entorn molt destacat per poder-lo estudiar, motiu pel quan esta previstes noves campanyes d'investigació. N'hem pogut parlar amb un dels responsables de l'estudi, Marc Diego-Feliu. L'entrada L’aigua dolça d’Aiguadolç té nombroses fonts sota el mar ha aparegut primer a Radio Maricel.
Somewhere between 1,500 and 2,700 folks showed up to Lafayette Square Saturday to participate in nationwide protests against DOGE, Elon Musk and President Trump - including some SOTA listeners
This week on the Toy Power Podcast; we are missing Frank in the studio; but have Special Guest: Chris Canini join us to help us breakdown a mountain of News & Announcements; mainly from the WonderCon Event! With a little bit of house-keeping aside, its impossible for us to ignore the recent Tariffs that is going to affect our Collecting passions. Mondo are up first with a beautiful array of Soft Vinyl items; 1/6th & 1/12th figures that has us drooling! McFarlane seem to have laid all their cards on the table; in an absolutely enormous slide-show of up-coming releases, in many different formats & sub-categories! Jada continuing to impress, not only with their awesome Street Fighter line; but their Mega-Man offers too! A heap of Marvel Legends that span across Movies, TV shows & Comicbooks too! Then rounding out, we shout out our wish-list of items we will be hunting for, at the upcoming Adelaide Comic & Toy Fair on the following weekend!! For more on Chris Canini, be sure to check out his Instagram pages: @DarkLightCollector @DarkLightTurtleLairSupport the show: http://patreon.com/toypowerpodcastSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Poet of the Week, March 31–April 6, 2025. Full text of the poem & interview: brooklynpoets.org/community/poet/monica-sok
This week on the Toy Power Podcast, we take a look at a Galaxy Far, Far Away; and select the most wretched hive of scum & villainy - in order for another installment of The Team! Yes, this round is focused on the Villains from the Original Kenner Star Wars Toyline Universe. Leader, Muscle, Specialist, Wheelman and an Iconic Vehicle; are all needed to be voted on, and then locked in! Then we turn the tide, one quarter way through the year already!..... We take a look at what Movies are slated to be released at the Box Office this year! What has us excited, what are we staying clear of, and how good does the Toxic Crusaders Trailer look!! All this and more; enjoy!!Support the show: http://patreon.com/toypowerpodcastSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Yes, there is news to talk too - some of it huge. Like a certain huge dragon. Huge fundraisers. Huge SDCC ecto-glow announcement. Two huge properties join forces (gotta build 'em all). One huge Shredder (bro lifts). But bigger than ALL of those, is the unexpected parcel of absolute joy sent by our favourite Canadian, the one and only Colin Betts. This has to be seen (heard?) to be believed. In spite of some truely awful postage costs, comes so many gifts filled with attention to detail, insight, humor and most importantly, love. Colin - a huge thank you!Support the show: http://patreon.com/toypowerpodcastSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
La thérapie en France, comment ça marche ? Qui y va ? Combien ça coûte ? Comment bien choisir son spécialiste de santé mentale ? Que peut-on attendre d'un suivi psychologique ? Interactive Transcript and Vocab Helper Get interactive transcripts, live vocabulary and bonus content for all our episodes! 7-Day FREE trial at: easyfrench.fm/membership Show Notes Deux moi, film de Cédric Klapisch (https://www.allocine.fr/film/fichefilm_gen_cfilm=268136.html) Bonus Podcast Emotions (https://louiemedia.com/emotions) Podcast Dose de psy (https://dosedepsy.captivate.fm/) Podcast Se sentir bien (https://www.radio.fr/podcast/sesentirbien) Transcript Intro Hélène: [0:16] Bonjour à tous, bonjour Judith. Judith: [0:19] Bonjour Hélène. Hélène: [0:21] Comment ça va ? Judith: [0:22] Ça va, je sais qu'on fait très souvent un petit récap météo. Hélène: [0:26] Oui, c'est la tradition. Judith: [0:29] Je vais encore en faire un. Ça y est, les beaux jours sont terminés, il fait de nouveau gris et froid à Paris. Hélène: [0:37] Exactement pareil, ici, aux Pays-Bas, on a eu une semaine de début de printemps, et c'est terminé l'hiver et, de nouveau là. C'était de courte durée. Judith: [0:49] Bon, on en a bien profité. Hélène: [0:50] C'est vrai. Alors, aujourd'hui, on va parler d'un sujet qui nous tient à cœur à toutes les deux et qui est un sujet de société aussi vraiment très présent en France. Avant cela, on va écouter un message d'un auditeur et tenter de répondre à sa question. Judith: [1:12] Ok. Sota: [1:12] Bonjour Hélène. Bonjour Judith, comment ça va ? Je m'appelle Sota, je suis japonais, j'habite à Osaka. Aujourd'hui, j'ai une bonne nouvelle pour vous. Je viens de m'inscrire à votre podcast Easy French. Vous savez pourquoi ? Parce que j'adore votre podcast. C'est toujours très intéressant, très amusant, très drôle. Voilà pourquoi. Et aujourd'hui, j'ai une question pour vous concernant la langue étrangère. L'autre fois, vous avez dit que vous êtes douées en langues étrangères. Moi aussi, personnellement, je parle plusieurs langues, comme le japonais, l'anglais et le français. Mais j'ai rencontré des difficultés de parler plusieurs langues étrangères en même temps. Il y a un mois, je suis allé aux États-Unis pour revoir mes amis. Et dès que je suis arrivé, quelqu'un m'a dit quelque chose en anglais et j'ai essayé de répondre en anglais. Mais j'ai toujours fini par répondre en français, tel que merci beaucoup, oui. Donc, comment est-ce que vous pouvez parler plusieurs langues étrangères sans faire le mélange ? C'est tout, à très bientôt. Get interactive transcripts, live vocabulary and bonus content for all our episodes! 7-Day FREE trial at: easyfrench.fm/membership
We are a couple of members down today so yes, it's a Lisa episode. Scot and Frank take the wheel to look at a new Origins reveal, some Latest Scores (where Scot goes BIG) but mainly wax on/off about the finale of Cobra Kai. Did they stick the landing or sweep the leg? How was Anthony Mackie's first solo run as Captain America? Hoe tough is it to integrate two cats into the same space? All these un-expected questions and more await! Support the show: http://patreon.com/toypowerpodcastSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Racism, corruption, electoral bias ... in less than three minutes, SOTA iconic caller Rashard covers more topics than you can shake a stick at
While everyone is now repeating that 2025 is the “Year of the Agent”, OpenAI is heads down building towards it. In the first 2 months of the year they released Operator and Deep Research (arguably the most successful agent archetype so far), and today they are bringing a lot of those capabilities to the API:* Responses API* Web Search Tool* Computer Use Tool* File Search Tool* A new open source Agents SDK with integrated Observability ToolsWe cover all this and more in today's lightning pod on YouTube!More details here:Responses APIIn our Michelle Pokrass episode we talked about the Assistants API needing a redesign. Today OpenAI is launching the Responses API, “a more flexible foundation for developers building agentic applications”. It's a superset of the chat completion API, and the suggested starting point for developers working with OpenAI models. One of the big upgrades is the new set of built-in tools for the responses API: Web Search, Computer Use, and Files. Web Search ToolWe previously had Exa AI on the podcast to talk about web search for AI. OpenAI is also now joining the race; the Web Search API is actually a new “model” that exposes two 4o fine-tunes: gpt-4o-search-preview and gpt-4o-mini-search-preview. These are the same models that power ChatGPT Search, and are priced at $30/1000 queries and $25/1000 queries respectively. The killer feature is inline citations: you do not only get a link to a page, but also a deep link to exactly where your query was answered in the result page. Computer Use ToolThe model that powers Operator, called Computer-Using-Agent (CUA), is also now available in the API. The computer-use-preview model is SOTA on most benchmarks, achieving 38.1% success on OSWorld for full computer use tasks, 58.1% on WebArena, and 87% on WebVoyager for web-based interactions.As you will notice in the docs, `computer-use-preview` is both a model and a tool through which you can specify the environment. Usage is priced at $3/1M input tokens and $12/1M output tokens, and it's currently only available to users in tiers 3-5.File Search ToolFile Search was also available in the Assistants API, and it's now coming to Responses too. OpenAI is bringing search + RAG all under one umbrella, and we'll definitely see more people trying to find new ways to build all-in-one apps on OpenAI. Usage is priced at $2.50 per thousand queries and file storage at $0.10/GB/day, with the first GB free.Agent SDK: Swarms++!https://github.com/openai/openai-agents-pythonTo bring it all together, after the viral reception to Swarm, OpenAI is releasing an officially supported agents framework (which was previewed at our AI Engineer Summit) with 4 core pieces:* Agents: Easily configurable LLMs with clear instructions and built-in tools.* Handoffs: Intelligently transfer control between agents.* Guardrails: Configurable safety checks for input and output validation.* Tracing & Observability: Visualize agent execution traces to debug and optimize performance.Multi-agent workflows are here to stay!OpenAI is now explicitly designs for a set of common agentic patterns: Workflows, Handoffs, Agents-as-Tools, LLM-as-a-Judge, Parallelization, and Guardrails. OpenAI previewed this in part 2 of their talk at NYC:Further coverage of the launch from Kevin Weil, WSJ, and OpenAIDevs, AMA here.Show Notes* Assistants API* Swarm (OpenAI)* Fine-Tuning in AI* 2024 OpenAI DevDay Recap with Romain* Michelle Pokrass episode (API lead)Timestamps* 00:00 Intros* 02:31 Responses API * 08:34 Web Search API * 17:14 Files Search API * 18:46 Files API vs RAG * 20:06 Computer Use / Operator API * 22:30 Agents SDKAnd of course you can catch up with the full livestream here:TranscriptAlessio [00:00:03]: Hey, everyone. Welcome back to another Latent Space Lightning episode. This is Alessio, partner and CTO at Decibel, and I'm joined by Swyx, founder of Small AI.swyx [00:00:11]: Hi, and today we have a super special episode because we're talking with our old friend Roman. Hi, welcome.Romain [00:00:19]: Thank you. Thank you for having me.swyx [00:00:20]: And Nikunj, who is most famously, if anyone has ever tried to get any access to anything on the API, Nikunj is the guy. So I know your emails because I look forward to them.Nikunj [00:00:30]: Yeah, nice to meet all of you.swyx [00:00:32]: I think that we're basically convening today to talk about the new API. So perhaps you guys want to just kick off. What is OpenAI launching today?Nikunj [00:00:40]: Yeah, so I can kick it off. We're launching a bunch of new things today. We're going to do three new built-in tools. So we're launching the web search tool. This is basically chat GPD for search, but available in the API. We're launching an improved file search tool. So this is you bringing your data to OpenAI. You upload it. We, you know, take care of parsing it, chunking it. We're embedding it, making it searchable, give you this like ready vector store that you can use. So that's the file search tool. And then we're also launching our computer use tool. So this is the tool behind the operator product in chat GPD. So that's coming to developers today. And to support all of these tools, we're going to have a new API. So, you know, we launched chat completions, like I think March 2023 or so. It's been a while. So we're looking for an update over here to support all the new things that the models can do. And so we're launching this new API. It is, you know, it works with tools. We think it'll be like a great option for all the future agentic products that we build. And so that is also launching today. Actually, the last thing we're launching is the agents SDK. We launched this thing called Swarm last year where, you know, it was an experimental SDK for people to do multi-agent orchestration and stuff like that. It was supposed to be like educational experimental, but like people, people really loved it. They like ate it up. And so we are like, all right, let's, let's upgrade this thing. Let's give it a new name. And so we're calling it the agents SDK. It's going to have built-in tracing in the OpenAI dashboard. So lots of cool stuff going out. So, yeah.Romain [00:02:14]: That's a lot, but we said 2025 was the year of agents. So there you have it, like a lot of new tools to build these agents for developers.swyx [00:02:20]: Okay. I guess, I guess we'll just kind of go one by one and we'll leave the agents SDK towards the end. So responses API, I think the sort of primary concern that people have and something I think I've voiced to you guys when, when, when I was talking with you in the, in the planning process was, is chat completions going away? So I just wanted to let it, let you guys respond to the concerns that people might have.Romain [00:02:41]: Chat completion is definitely like here to stay, you know, it's a bare metal API we've had for quite some time. Lots of tools built around it. So we want to make sure that it's maintained and people can confidently keep on building on it. At the same time, it was kind of optimized for a different world, right? It was optimized for a pre-multi-modality world. We also optimized for kind of single turn. It takes two problems. It takes prompt in, it takes response out. And now with these agentic workflows, we, we noticed that like developers and companies want to build longer horizon tasks, you know, like things that require multiple returns to get the task accomplished. And computer use is one of those, for instance. And so that's why the responses API came to life to kind of support these new agentic workflows. But chat completion is definitely here to stay.swyx [00:03:27]: And assistance API, we've, uh, has a target sunset date of first half of 2020. So this is kind of like, in my mind, there was a kind of very poetic mirroring of the API with the models. This, I kind of view this as like kind of the merging of assistance API and chat completions, right. Into one unified responses. So it's kind of like how GPT and the old series models are also unifying.Romain [00:03:48]: Yeah, that's exactly the right, uh, that's the right framing, right? Like, I think we took the best of what we learned from the assistance API, especially like being able to access tools very, uh, very like conveniently, but at the same time, like simplifying the way you have to integrate, like, you no longer have to think about six different objects to kind of get access to these tools with the responses API. You just get one API request and suddenly you can weave in those tools, right?Nikunj [00:04:12]: Yeah, absolutely. And I think we're going to make it really easy and straightforward for assistance API users to migrate over to responsive. Right. To the API without any loss of functionality or data. So our plan is absolutely to add, you know, assistant like objects and thread light objects to that, that work really well with the responses API. We'll also add like the code interpreter tool, which is not launching today, but it'll come soon. And, uh, we'll add async mode to responses API, because that's another difference with, with, uh, assistance. I will have web hooks and stuff like that, but I think it's going to be like a pretty smooth transition. Uh, once we have all of that in place. And we'll be. Like a full year to migrate and, and help them through any issues they, they, they face. So overall, I feel like assistance users are really going to benefit from this longer term, uh, with this more flexible, primitive.Alessio [00:05:01]: How should people think about when to use each type of API? So I know that in the past, the assistance was maybe more stateful, kind of like long running, many tool use kind of like file based things. And the chat completions is more stateless, you know, kind of like traditional completion API. Is that still the mental model that people should have? Or like, should you buy the.Nikunj [00:05:20]: So the responses API is going to support everything that it's at launch, going to support everything that chat completion supports, and then over time, it's going to support everything that assistance supports. So it's going to be a pretty good fit for anyone starting out with open AI. Uh, they should be able to like go to responses responses, by the way, also has a stateless mode, so you can pass in store false and they'll make the whole API stateless, just like chat completions. You're really trying to like get this unification. A story in so that people don't have to juggle multiple endpoints. That being said, like chat completions, just like the most widely adopted API, it's it's so popular. So we're still going to like support it for years with like new models and features. But if you're a new user, you want to or if you want to like existing, you want to tap into some of these like built in tools or something, you should feel feel totally fine migrating to responses and you'll have more capabilities and performance than the tech completions.swyx [00:06:16]: I think the messaging that I agree that I think resonated the most. When I talked to you was that it is a strict superset, right? Like you should be able to do everything that you could do in chat completions and with assistants. And the thing that I just assumed that because you're you're now, you know, by default is stateful, you're actually storing the chat logs or the chat state. I thought you'd be charging me for it. So, you know, to me, it was very surprising that you figured out how to make it free.Nikunj [00:06:43]: Yeah, it's free. We store your state for 30 days. You can turn it off. But yeah, it's it's free. And the interesting thing on state is that it just like makes particularly for me, it makes like debugging things and building things so much simpler, where I can like create a responses object that's like pretty complicated and part of this more complex application that I've built, I can just go into my dashboard and see exactly what happened that mess up my prompt that is like not called one of these tools that misconfigure one of the tools like the visual observability of everything that you're doing is so, so helpful. So I'm excited, like about people trying that out and getting benefits from it, too.swyx [00:07:19]: Yeah, it's a it's really, I think, a really nice to have. But all I'll say is that my friend Corey Quinn says that anything that can be used as a database will be used as a database. So be prepared for some abuse.Romain [00:07:34]: All right. Yeah, that's a good one. Some of that I've tried with the metadata. That's some people are very, very creative at stuffing data into an object. Yeah.Nikunj [00:07:44]: And we do have metadata with responses. Exactly. Yeah.Alessio [00:07:48]: Let's get through it. All of these. So web search. I think the when I first said web search, I thought you were going to just expose a API that then return kind of like a nice list of thing. But the way it's name is like GPD for all search preview. So I'm guessing you have you're using basically the same model that is in the chat GPD search, which is fine tune for search. I'm guessing it's a different model than the base one. And it's impressive the jump in performance. So just to give an example, in simple QA, GPD for all is 38% accuracy for all search is 90%. But we always talk about. How tools are like models is not everything you need, like tools around it are just as important. So, yeah, maybe give people a quick review on like the work that went into making this special.Nikunj [00:08:29]: Should I take that?Alessio [00:08:29]: Yeah, go for it.Nikunj [00:08:30]: So firstly, we're launching web search in two ways. One in responses API, which is our API for tools. It's going to be available as a web search tool itself. So you'll be able to go tools, turn on web search and you're ready to go. We still wanted to give chat completions people access to real time information. So in that. Chat completions API, which does not support built in tools. We're launching the direct access to the fine tuned model that chat GPD for search uses, and we call it GPD for search preview. And how is this model built? Basically, we have our search research team has been working on this for a while. Their main goal is to, like, get information, like get a bunch of information from all of our data sources that we use to gather information for search and then pick the right things and then cite them. As accurately as possible. And that's what the search team has really focused on. They've done some pretty cool stuff. They use like synthetic data techniques. They've done like all series model distillation to, like, make these four or fine tunes really good. But yeah, the main thing is, like, can it remain factual? Can it answer questions based on what it retrieves and get cited accurately? And that's what this like fine tune model really excels at. And so, yeah, so we're excited that, like, it's going to be directly available in chat completions along with being available as a tool. Yeah.Alessio [00:09:49]: Just to clarify, if I'm using the responses API, this is a tool. But if I'm using chat completions, I have to switch model. I cannot use 01 and call search as a tool. Yeah, that's right. Exactly.Romain [00:09:58]: I think what's really compelling, at least for me and my own uses of it so far, is that when you use, like, web search as a tool, it combines nicely with every other tool and every other feature of the platform. So think about this for a second. For instance, imagine you have, like, a responses API call with the web search tool, but suddenly you turn on function calling. You also turn on, let's say, structure. So you can have, like, the ability to structure any data from the web in real time in the JSON schema that you need for your application. So it's quite powerful when you start combining those features and tools together. It's kind of like an API for the Internet almost, you know, like you get, like, access to the precise schema you need for your app. Yeah.Alessio [00:10:39]: And then just to wrap up on the infrastructure side of it, I read on the post that people, publisher can choose to appear in the web search. So are people by default in it? Like, how can we get Latent Space in the web search API?Nikunj [00:10:53]: Yeah. Yeah. I think we have some documentation around how websites, publishers can control, like, what shows up in a web search tool. And I think you should be able to, like, read that. I think we should be able to get Latent Space in for sure. Yeah.swyx [00:11:10]: You know, I think so. I compare this to a broader trend that I started covering last year of online LLMs. Actually, Perplexity, I think, was the first. It was the first to say, to offer an API that is connected to search, and then Gemini had the sort of search grounding API. And I think you guys, I actually didn't, I missed this in the original reading of the docs, but you even give like citations with like the exact sub paragraph that is matching, which I think is the standard nowadays. I think my question is, how do we take what a knowledge cutoff is for something like this, right? Because like now, basically there's no knowledge cutoff is always live, but then there's a difference between what the model has sort of internalized in its back propagation and what is searching up its rag.Romain [00:11:53]: I think it kind of depends on the use case, right? And what you want to showcase as the source. Like, for instance, you take a company like Hebbia that has used this like web search tool. They can combine like for credit firms or law firms, they can find like, you know, public information from the internet with the live sources and citation that sometimes you do want to have access to, as opposed to like the internal knowledge. But if you're building something different, well, like, you just want to have the information. If you want to have an assistant that relies on the deep knowledge that the model has, you may not need to have these like direct citations. So I think it kind of depends on the use case a little bit, but there are many, uh, many companies like Hebbia that will need that access to these citations to precisely know where the information comes from.swyx [00:12:34]: Yeah, yeah, uh, for sure. And then one thing on the, on like the breadth, you know, I think a lot of the deep research, open deep research implementations have this sort of hyper parameter about, you know, how deep they're searching and how wide they're searching. I don't see that in the docs. But is that something that we can tune? Is that something you recommend thinking about?Nikunj [00:12:53]: Super interesting. It's definitely not a parameter today, but we should explore that. It's very interesting. I imagine like how you would do it with the web search tool and responsive API is you would have some form of like, you know, agent orchestration over here where you have a planning step and then each like web search call that you do like explicitly goes a layer deeper and deeper and deeper. But it's not a parameter that's available out of the box. But it's a cool. It's a cool thing to think about. Yeah.swyx [00:13:19]: The only guidance I'll offer there is a lot of these implementations offer top K, which is like, you know, top 10, top 20, but actually don't really want that. You want like sort of some kind of similarity cutoff, right? Like some matching score cuts cutoff, because if there's only five things, five documents that match fine, if there's 500 that match, maybe that's what I want. Right. Yeah. But also that might, that might make my costs very unpredictable because the costs are something like $30 per a thousand queries, right? So yeah. Yeah.Nikunj [00:13:49]: I guess you could, you could have some form of like a context budget and then you're like, go as deep as you can and pick the best stuff and put it into like X number of tokens. There could be some creative ways of, of managing cost, but yeah, that's a super interesting thing to explore.Alessio [00:14:05]: Do you see people using the files and the search API together where you can kind of search and then store everything in the file so the next time I'm not paying for the search again and like, yeah, how should people balance that?Nikunj [00:14:17]: That's actually a very interesting question. And let me first tell you about how I've seen a really cool way I've seen people use files and search together is they put their user preferences or memories in the vector store and so a query comes in, you use the file search tool to like get someone's like reading preferences or like fashion preferences and stuff like that, and then you search the web for information or products that they can buy related to those preferences and you then render something beautiful to show them, like, here are five things that you might be interested in. So that's how I've seen like file search, web search work together. And by the way, that's like a single responses API call, which is really cool. So you just like configure these things, go boom, and like everything just happens. But yeah, that's how I've seen like files and web work together.Romain [00:15:01]: But I think that what you're pointing out is like interesting, and I'm sure developers will surprise us as they always do in terms of how they combine these tools and how they might use file search as a way to have memory and preferences, like Nikum says. But I think like zooming out, what I find very compelling and powerful here is like when you have these like neural networks. That have like all of the knowledge that they have today, plus real time access to the Internet for like any kind of real time information that you might need for your app and file search, where you can have a lot of company, private documents, private details, you combine those three, and you have like very, very compelling and precise answers for any kind of use case that your company or your product might want to enable.swyx [00:15:41]: It's a difference between sort of internal documents versus the open web, right? Like you're going to need both. Exactly, exactly. I never thought about it doing memory as well. I guess, again, you know, anything that's a database, you can store it and you will use it as a database. That sounds awesome. But I think also you've been, you know, expanding the file search. You have more file types. You have query optimization, custom re-ranking. So it really seems like, you know, it's been fleshed out. Obviously, I haven't been paying a ton of attention to the file search capability, but it sounds like your team has added a lot of features.Nikunj [00:16:14]: Yeah, metadata filtering was like the main thing people were asking us for for a while. And I'm super excited about it. I mean, it's just so critical once your, like, web store size goes over, you know, more than like, you know, 5,000, 10,000 records, you kind of need that. So, yeah, metadata filtering is coming, too.Romain [00:16:31]: And for most companies, it's also not like a competency that you want to rebuild in-house necessarily, you know, like, you know, thinking about embeddings and chunking and, you know, how of that, like, it sounds like very complex for something very, like, obvious to ship for your users. Like companies like Navant, for instance. They were able to build with the file search, like, you know, take all of the FAQ and travel policies, for instance, that you have, you, you put that in file search tool, and then you don't have to think about anything. Now your assistant becomes naturally much more aware of all of these policies from the files.swyx [00:17:03]: The question is, like, there's a very, very vibrant RAG industry already, as you well know. So there's many other vector databases, many other frameworks. Probably if it's an open source stack, I would say like a lot of the AI engineers that I talk to want to own this part of the stack. And it feels like, you know, like, when should we DIY and when should we just use whatever OpenAI offers?Nikunj [00:17:24]: Yeah. I mean, like, if you're doing something completely from scratch, you're going to have more control, right? Like, so super supportive of, you know, people trying to, like, roll up their sleeves, build their, like, super custom chunking strategy and super custom retrieval strategy and all of that. And those are things that, like, will be harder to do with OpenAI tools. OpenAI tool has, like, we have an out-of-the-box solution. We give you the tools. We use some knobs to customize things, but it's more of, like, a managed RAG service. So my recommendation would be, like, start with the OpenAI thing, see if it, like, meets your needs. And over time, we're going to be adding more and more knobs to make it even more customizable. But, you know, if you want, like, the completely custom thing, you want control over every single thing, then you'd probably want to go and hand roll it using other solutions. So we're supportive of both, like, engineers should pick. Yeah.Alessio [00:18:16]: And then we got computer use. Which I think Operator was obviously one of the hot releases of the year. And we're only two months in. Let's talk about that. And that's also, it seems like a separate model that has been fine-tuned for Operator that has browser access.Nikunj [00:18:31]: Yeah, absolutely. I mean, the computer use models are exciting. The cool thing about computer use is that we're just so, so early. It's like the GPT-2 of computer use or maybe GPT-1 of computer use right now. But it is a separate model that has been, you know, the computer. The computer use team has been working on, you send it screenshots and it tells you what action to take. So the outputs of it are almost always tool calls and you're inputting screenshots based on whatever computer you're trying to operate.Romain [00:19:01]: Maybe zooming out for a second, because like, I'm sure your audience is like super, super like AI native, obviously. But like, what is computer use as a tool, right? And what's operator? So the idea for computer use is like, how do we let developers also build agents that can complete tasks for the users, but using a computer? Okay. Or a browser instead. And so how do you get that done? And so that's why we have this custom model, like optimized for computer use that we use like for operator ourselves. But the idea behind like putting it as an API is that imagine like now you want to, you want to automate some tasks for your product or your own customers. Then now you can, you can have like the ability to spin up one of these agents that will look at the screen and act on the screen. So that means able, the ability to click, the ability to scroll. The ability to type and to report back on the action. So that's what we mean by computer use and wrapping it as a tool also in the responses API. So now like that gives a hint also at the multi-turned thing that we were hinting at earlier, the idea that like, yeah, maybe one of these actions can take a couple of minutes to complete because there's maybe like 20 steps to complete that task. But now you can.swyx [00:20:08]: Do you think a computer use can play Pokemon?Romain [00:20:11]: Oh, interesting. I guess we tried it. I guess we should try it. You know?swyx [00:20:17]: Yeah. There's a lot of interest. I think Pokemon really is a good agent benchmark, to be honest. Like it seems like Claude is, Claude is running into a lot of trouble.Romain [00:20:25]: Sounds like we should make that a new eval, it looks like.swyx [00:20:28]: Yeah. Yeah. Oh, and then one more, one more thing before we move on to agents SDK. I know you have a hard stop. There's all these, you know, blah, blah, dash preview, right? Like search preview, computer use preview, right? And you see them all like fine tunes of 4.0. I think the question is, are we, are they all going to be merged into the main branch or are we basically always going to have subsets? Of these models?Nikunj [00:20:49]: Yeah, I think in the early days, research teams at OpenAI like operate with like fine tune models. And then once the thing gets like more stable, we sort of merge it into the main line. So that's definitely the vision, like going out of preview as we get more comfortable with and learn about all the developer use cases and we're doing a good job at them. We'll sort of like make them part of like the core models so that you don't have to like deal with the bifurcation.Romain [00:21:12]: You should think of it this way as exactly what happened last year when we introduced vision capabilities, you know. Yes. Vision capabilities were in like a vision preview model based off of GPT-4 and then vision capabilities now are like obviously built into GPT-4.0. You can think about it the same way for like the other modalities like audio and those kind of like models, like optimized for search and computer use.swyx [00:21:34]: Agents SDK, we have a few minutes left. So let's just assume that everyone has looked at Swarm. Sure. I think that Swarm has really popularized the handoff technique, which I thought was like, you know, really, really interesting for sort of a multi-agent. What is new with the SDK?Nikunj [00:21:50]: Yeah. Do you want to start? Yeah, for sure. So we've basically added support for types. We've made this like a lot. Yeah. Like we've added support for types. We've added support for guard railing, which is a very common pattern. So in the guardrail example, you basically have two things happen in parallel. The guardrail can sort of block the execution. It's a type of like optimistic generation that happens. And I think we've added support for tracing. So I think that's really cool. So you can basically look at the traces that the Agents SDK creates in the OpenAI dashboard. We also like made this pretty flexible. So you can pick any API from any provider that supports the ChatCompletions API format. So it supports responses by default, but you can like easily plug it in to anyone that uses the ChatCompletions API. And similarly, on the tracing side, you can support like multiple tracing providers. By default, it sort of points to the OpenAI dashboard. But, you know, there's like so many tracing providers. There's so many tracing companies out there. And we'll announce some partnerships on that front, too. So just like, you know, adding lots of core features and making it more usable, but still centered around like handoffs is like the main, main concept.Romain [00:22:59]: And by the way, it's interesting, right? Because Swarm just came to life out of like learning from customers directly that like orchestrating agents in production was pretty hard. You know, simple ideas could quickly turn very complex. Like what are those guardrails? What are those handoffs, et cetera? So that came out of like learning from customers. And it was initially shipped. It was not as a like low-key experiment, I'd say. But we were kind of like taken by surprise at how much momentum there was around this concept. And so we decided to learn from that and embrace it. To be like, okay, maybe we should just embrace that as a core primitive of the OpenAI platform. And that's kind of what led to the Agents SDK. And I think now, as Nikuj mentioned, it's like adding all of these new capabilities to it, like leveraging the handoffs that we had, but tracing also. And I think what's very compelling for developers is like instead of having one agent to rule them all and you stuff like a lot of tool calls in there that can be hard to monitor, now you have the tools you need to kind of like separate the logic, right? And you can have a triage agent that based on an intent goes to different kind of agents. And then on the OpenAI dashboard, we're releasing a lot of new user interface logs as well. So you can see all of the tracing UIs. Essentially, you'll be able to troubleshoot like what exactly happened. In that workflow, when the triage agent did a handoff to a secondary agent and the third and see the tool calls, et cetera. So we think that the Agents SDK combined with the tracing UIs will definitely help users and developers build better agentic workflows.Alessio [00:24:28]: And just before we wrap, are you thinking of connecting this with also the RFT API? Because I know you already have, you kind of store my text completions and then I can do fine tuning of that. Is that going to be similar for agents where you're storing kind of like my traces? And then help me improve the agents?Nikunj [00:24:43]: Yeah, absolutely. Like you got to tie the traces to the evals product so that you can generate good evals. Once you have good evals and graders and tasks, you can use that to do reinforcement fine tuning. And, you know, lots of details to be figured out over here. But that's the vision. And I think we're going to go after it like pretty hard and hope we can like make this whole workflow a lot easier for developers.Alessio [00:25:05]: Awesome. Thank you so much for the time. I'm sure you'll be busy on Twitter tomorrow with all the developer feedback. Yeah.Romain [00:25:12]: Thank you so much for having us. And as always, we can't wait to see what developers will build with these tools and how we can like learn as quickly as we can from them to make them even better over time.Nikunj [00:25:21]: Yeah.Romain [00:25:22]: Thank you, guys.Nikunj [00:25:23]: Thank you.Romain [00:25:23]: Thank you both. Awesome. Get full access to Latent.Space at www.latent.space/subscribe
The dumbest, meanest people you know have only one truly safe space to express themselves without fear of consequences for their ignorance, and it happens to be Facebook
Strap yourselves in folks - New York Toy Fair 2025 is here and it brought the big guns! We - and our wallets - are under heavy fire from a carpet bombing of toy goodness and reveals! Enjoy this mid-week drop while we take some time to recover and sell our kidneys to afford all our wants! Don't forget to grab your Super7 items from our affiliate linkSupport the show: http://patreon.com/toypowerpodcastSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
This week on the Toy Power Podcast, we are joined with Steve Scholz *again*; this round is a much more in depth episode all centred around Steve himself! First up are his initiation questions, as we dive deeper into his person journey in the Pop Culture realm. Find out about a how he was a key contributor on creating an artistic Vinyl Toy Penguin; with a long term plan of other characters in the line; as well as some of the other characters they had planned to release. Don't wish to pay for movie tickets? Steve lets you in on just how successful he was on this endeavor & how his mates & himself where Cosplaying well before it was a mainstream hobby! Then we dive right into just how much Steve is a die hard Mad Max fan; and has been to no less than FIVE dedicated events with a sixth one planned on the horizon! What makes these events so special & what can you expect if you wish to join?! All this and more! Be entertained! Find out more & support Steve Scholz here: https://www.facebook.com/toyroomtattoo https://www.instagram.com/toyroomtattoo https://www.facebook.com/themightywezSupport the show: http://patreon.com/toypowerpodcastSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Mark you calendar folks, the second annual TEHRS POTA Campout is happening from Thursday July 31 to Sunday August 3 2025 on the beautiful Danish island of Bornholm. We can promise nerd talk, radios, POTA and SOTA, Danish beer and Danish pastry, and we have even got a really good price on accomodation. Want to know more? Check out https://hamshow.eu/meetup or just watch this show.Please join our discord at https://hamshow.eu/discordTEHRS is: @LB5JJ @labcat73 @LB4FH @AH6UN_OE4JHW @LB0FI #amateurradio #hamradio #amateurfunk Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.
In a ToyPower first, we record somewhere OTHER than a hosts toy room! We take the show on the road to home of one of Adelaides premier geek aficionados Steve Scholz. While we delve a little into our hosts amazing collection (more on that coming next week!) there is some tasty news to cover. Is this the first Shredder Ben is NOT keen on? Todd and Batman - what could go wrong? JoyToy is KILLING it while Mondo just continue to do Mondo things. Find out more about Steve Scholz to prepare for next week!https://www.facebook.com/toyroomtattoohttps://www.instagram.com/toyroomtattoohttps://www.facebook.com/themightywezSupport the show: http://patreon.com/toypowerpodcastSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Breaking News: "Zizian Group Members Arrested Amid Controversy?" #Jacklasota #MicheleZajko #teresayoungblut Breaking news has just surfaced as multiple Zizian Group members have been taken into custody amidst a shocking controversy that's leaving everyone stunned! The community is reeling as details of the scandal begin to emerge, and we're here to break it all down for you. From the allegations to the aftermath, we'll delve into the latest updates and explore what this means for the group's future.
This week on the Toy Power Podcast, we are making a mess in the kitchen with recipes for the upcoming Fantastic Four Film! Then we clean-up for another segment around The Team. This round being based around MOTU Villains. We go around the room & carefully select a Leader, the Muscle, a Specialist, the Wheelman; and rounding out universally on a sweet mode of Transportation! Once that group is locked in; we dive into the underground world of Bootleg Toys! With everything from Sound-Recorders, Galaxy Empires, Lego type small figures; plus a slew of other things, Beasts & overall really poor choices & designs! This was a really fun episode - we will be sure to share some pics to compliment the Audio of what we are chatting about on our Social Media feed/s. So sit back, relax, and enjoy this not so serious episode with us!!Support the show: http://patreon.com/toypowerpodcastSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
We're just out here trying to get SOTA listeners a great deal on perfume and cologne but somehow it became a show about colonoscopies. So be it
Greg Buisson joins the show to update SOTA listeners about who's performing at Family Gras
Send Everyday AI and Jordan a text message$100 million fine if your company uses DeepSeek? What happened, here? A few weeks ago, DeepSeek was the internet's darling. After grabbing international headlines and shaking the U.S. stock market to its core, it's been a shake week or two for the Chinese AI company. So what's actually happening here? Should you actually use the model? Is it safe? Is it really a SOTA open source model? Newsletter: Sign up for our free daily newsletterMore on this Episode: Episode PageJoin the discussion: Ask Jordan questions on DeepSeekUpcoming Episodes: Check out the upcoming Everyday AI Livestream lineupWebsite: YourEverydayAI.comEmail The Show: info@youreverydayai.comConnect with Jordan on LinkedInTopics Covered in This Episode:1. Popularity of DeepSeek 2. DeepSeek's capabilities and benchmarks3. DeepSeek causing market disruptions4. Global Reactions and Controversies5. Analysis and Criticism of DeepSeekTimestamps:00:00 "DeepSeek: AI Revolution or Threat?"03:20 Daily AI news09:06 DeepSeek's Advanced AI Models09:56 US Alternatives Boost DeepSeek Legitimacy15:34 Data Security Risks with China17:02 Potential Chinese AI Ban Looms21:13 Confidence in Model and Media Blame25:26 "Data Privacy Concerns with DeepSeek"30:04 DeepSeek Model Cost Controversy33:12 DeepSeek's Costs and Legal Issues36:55 DeepSeek Bans Amid Security Leaks38:24 Deep Seek Ban on Devices42:44 Data Privacy Concerns in AI Platforms46:55 DeepSeek: Not Truly Open Source48:36 AI Podcast Success Story52:48 DeepSeek AI: Threat or Hype?Keywords:Generative AI, DeepSeek, Chinese AI company, US Senate bill, $100,000,000 fines, prison sentences, national security threat, AI Sputnik moment, Microsoft, Perplexity, AWS, AI predictions, OpenAI, o3 model, International Olympiad in Informatics, Alibaba, iPhone AI features, Apple, ByteDance, Baidu, Tencent, Elon Musk, OpenAI takeover bid, transparency, data privacy, open source, state of the art model, LLMs, reasoning models, regulatory oversight, proprietary documents. Ready for ROI on GenAI? Go to youreverydayai.com/partner
If you're in SF, join us tomorrow for a fun meetup at CodeGen Night!If you're in NYC, join us for AI Engineer Summit! The Agent Engineering track is now sold out, but 25 tickets remain for AI Leadership and 5 tickets for the workshops. You can see the full schedule of speakers and workshops at https://ai.engineer!It's exceedingly hard to introduce someone like Bret Taylor. We could recite his Wikipedia page, or his extensive work history through Silicon Valley's greatest companies, but everyone else already does that.As a podcast by AI engineers for AI engineers, we had the opportunity to do something a little different. We wanted to dig into what Bret sees from his vantage point at the top of our industry for the last 2 decades, and how that explains the rise of the AI Architect at Sierra, the leading conversational AI/CX platform.“Across our customer base, we are seeing a new role emerge - the role of the AI architect. These leaders are responsible for helping define, manage and evolve their company's AI agent over time. They come from a variety of both technical and business backgrounds, and we think that every company will have one or many AI architects managing their AI agent and related experience.”In our conversation, Bret Taylor confirms the Paul Buchheit legend that he rewrote Google Maps in a weekend, armed with only the help of a then-nascent Google Closure Compiler and no other modern tooling. But what we find remarkable is that he was the PM of Maps, not an engineer, though of course he still identifies as one. We find this theme recurring throughout Bret's career and worldview. We think it is plain as day that AI leadership will have to be hands-on and technical, especially when the ground is shifting as quickly as it is today:“There's a lot of power in combining product and engineering into as few people as possible… few great things have been created by committee.”“If engineering is an order taking organization for product you can sometimes make meaningful things, but rarely will you create extremely well crafted breakthrough products. Those tend to be small teams who deeply understand the customer need that they're solving, who have a maniacal focus on outcomes.”“And I think the reason why is if you look at like software as a service five years ago, maybe you can have a separation of product and engineering because most software as a service created five years ago. I wouldn't say there's like a lot of technological breakthroughs required for most business applications. And if you're making expense reporting software or whatever, it's useful… You kind of know how databases work, how to build auto scaling with your AWS cluster, whatever, you know, it's just, you're just applying best practices to yet another problem. "When you have areas like the early days of mobile development or the early days of interactive web applications, which I think Google Maps and Gmail represent, or now AI agents, you're in this constant conversation with what the requirements of your customers and stakeholders are and all the different people interacting with it and the capabilities of the technology. And it's almost impossible to specify the requirements of a product when you're not sure of the limitations of the technology itself.”This is the first time the difference between technical leadership for “normal” software and for “AI” software was articulated this clearly for us, and we'll be thinking a lot about this going forward. We left a lot of nuggets in the conversation, so we hope you'll just dive in with us (and thank Bret for joining the pod!)Timestamps* 00:00:02 Introductions and Bret Taylor's background* 00:01:23 Bret's experience at Stanford and the dot-com era* 00:04:04 The story of rewriting Google Maps backend* 00:11:06 Early days of interactive web applications at Google* 00:15:26 Discussion on product management and engineering roles* 00:21:00 AI and the future of software development* 00:26:42 Bret's approach to identifying customer needs and building AI companies* 00:32:09 The evolution of business models in the AI era* 00:41:00 The future of programming languages and software development* 00:49:38 Challenges in precisely communicating human intent to machines* 00:56:44 Discussion on Artificial General Intelligence (AGI) and its impact* 01:08:51 The future of agent-to-agent communication* 01:14:03 Bret's involvement in the OpenAI leadership crisis* 01:22:11 OpenAI's relationship with Microsoft* 01:23:23 OpenAI's mission and priorities* 01:27:40 Bret's guiding principles for career choices* 01:29:12 Brief discussion on pasta-making* 01:30:47 How Bret keeps up with AI developments* 01:32:15 Exciting research directions in AI* 01:35:19 Closing remarks and hiring at Sierra Transcript[00:02:05] Introduction and Guest Welcome[00:02:05] Alessio: Hey everyone, welcome to the Latent Space Podcast. This is Alessio, partner and CTO at Decibel Partners, and I'm joined by my co host swyx, founder of smol.ai.[00:02:17] swyx: Hey, and today we're super excited to have Bret Taylor join us. Welcome. Thanks for having me. It's a little unreal to have you in the studio.[00:02:25] swyx: I've read about you so much over the years, like even before. Open AI effectively. I mean, I use Google Maps to get here. So like, thank you for everything that you've done. Like, like your story history, like, you know, I think people can find out what your greatest hits have been.[00:02:40] Bret Taylor's Early Career and Education[00:02:40] swyx: How do you usually like to introduce yourself when, you know, you talk about, you summarize your career, like, how do you look at yourself?[00:02:47] Bret: Yeah, it's a great question. You know, we, before we went on the mics here, we're talking about the audience for this podcast being more engineering. And I do think depending on the audience, I'll introduce myself differently because I've had a lot of [00:03:00] corporate and board roles. I probably self identify as an engineer more than anything else though.[00:03:04] Bret: So even when I was. Salesforce, I was coding on the weekends. So I think of myself as an engineer and then all the roles that I do in my career sort of start with that just because I do feel like engineering is sort of a mindset and how I approach most of my life. So I'm an engineer first and that's how I describe myself.[00:03:24] Bret: You majored in computer[00:03:25] swyx: science, like 1998. And, and I was high[00:03:28] Bret: school, actually my, my college degree was Oh, two undergrad. Oh, three masters. Right. That old.[00:03:33] swyx: Yeah. I mean, no, I was going, I was going like 1998 to 2003, but like engineering wasn't as, wasn't a thing back then. Like we didn't have the title of senior engineer, you know, kind of like, it was just.[00:03:44] swyx: You were a programmer, you were a developer, maybe. What was it like in Stanford? Like, what was that feeling like? You know, was it, were you feeling like on the cusp of a great computer revolution? Or was it just like a niche, you know, interest at the time?[00:03:57] Stanford and the Dot-Com Bubble[00:03:57] Bret: Well, I was at Stanford, as you said, from 1998 to [00:04:00] 2002.[00:04:02] Bret: 1998 was near the peak of the dot com bubble. So. This is back in the day where most people that they're coding in the computer lab, just because there was these sun microsystems, Unix boxes there that most of us had to do our assignments on. And every single day there was a. com like buying pizza for everybody.[00:04:20] Bret: I didn't have to like, I got. Free food, like my first two years of university and then the dot com bubble burst in the middle of my college career. And so by the end there was like tumbleweed going to the job fair, you know, it was like, cause it was hard to describe unless you were there at the time, the like level of hype and being a computer science major at Stanford was like, A thousand opportunities.[00:04:45] Bret: And then, and then when I left, it was like Microsoft, IBM.[00:04:49] Joining Google and Early Projects[00:04:49] Bret: And then the two startups that I applied to were VMware and Google. And I ended up going to Google in large part because a woman named Marissa Meyer, who had been a teaching [00:05:00] assistant when I was, what was called a section leader, which was like a junior teaching assistant kind of for one of the big interest.[00:05:05] Bret: Yes. Classes. She had gone there. And she was recruiting me and I knew her and it was sort of felt safe, you know, like, I don't know. I thought about it much, but it turned out to be a real blessing. I realized like, you know, you always want to think you'd pick Google if given the option, but no one knew at the time.[00:05:20] Bret: And I wonder if I'd graduated in like 1999 where I've been like, mom, I just got a job at pets. com. It's good. But you know, at the end I just didn't have any options. So I was like, do I want to go like make kernel software at VMware? Do I want to go build search at Google? And I chose Google. 50, 50 ball.[00:05:36] Bret: I'm not really a 50, 50 ball. So I feel very fortunate in retrospect that the economy collapsed because in some ways it forced me into like one of the greatest companies of all time, but I kind of lucked into it, I think.[00:05:47] The Google Maps Rewrite Story[00:05:47] Alessio: So the famous story about Google is that you rewrote the Google maps back in, in one week after the map quest quest maps acquisition, what was the story there?[00:05:57] Alessio: Is it. Actually true. Is it [00:06:00] being glorified? Like how, how did that come to be? And is there any detail that maybe Paul hasn't shared before?[00:06:06] Bret: It's largely true, but I'll give the color commentary. So it was actually the front end, not the back end, but it turns out for Google maps, the front end was sort of the hard part just because Google maps was.[00:06:17] Bret: Largely the first ish kind of really interactive web application, say first ish. I think Gmail certainly was though Gmail, probably a lot of people then who weren't engineers probably didn't appreciate its level of interactivity. It was just fast, but. Google maps, because you could drag the map and it was sort of graphical.[00:06:38] Bret: My, it really in the mainstream, I think, was it a map[00:06:41] swyx: quest back then that was, you had the arrows up and down, it[00:06:44] Bret: was up and down arrows. Each map was a single image and you just click left and then wait for a few seconds to the new map to let it was really small too, because generating a big image was kind of expensive on computers that day.[00:06:57] Bret: So Google maps was truly innovative in that [00:07:00] regard. The story on it. There was a small company called where two technologies started by two Danish brothers, Lars and Jens Rasmussen, who are two of my closest friends now. They had made a windows app called expedition, which had beautiful maps. Even in 2000.[00:07:18] Bret: For whenever we acquired or sort of acquired their company, Windows software was not particularly fashionable, but they were really passionate about mapping and we had made a local search product that was kind of middling in terms of popularity, sort of like a yellow page of search product. So we wanted to really go into mapping.[00:07:36] Bret: We'd started working on it. Their small team seemed passionate about it. So we're like, come join us. We can build this together.[00:07:42] Technical Challenges and Innovations[00:07:42] Bret: It turned out to be a great blessing that they had built a windows app because you're less technically constrained when you're doing native code than you are building a web browser, particularly back then when there weren't really interactive web apps and it ended up.[00:07:56] Bret: Changing the level of quality that we [00:08:00] wanted to hit with the app because we were shooting for something that felt like a native windows application. So it was a really good fortune that we sort of, you know, their unusual technical choices turned out to be the greatest blessing. So we spent a lot of time basically saying, how can you make a interactive draggable map in a web browser?[00:08:18] Bret: How do you progressively load, you know, new map tiles, you know, as you're dragging even things like down in the weeds of the browser at the time, most browsers like Internet Explorer, which was dominant at the time would only load two images at a time from the same domain. So we ended up making our map tile servers have like.[00:08:37] Bret: Forty different subdomains so we could load maps and parallels like lots of hacks. I'm happy to go into as much as like[00:08:44] swyx: HTTP connections and stuff.[00:08:46] Bret: They just like, there was just maximum parallelism of two. And so if you had a map, set of map tiles, like eight of them, so So we just, we were down in the weeds of the browser anyway.[00:08:56] Bret: So it was lots of plumbing. I can, I know a lot more about browsers than [00:09:00] most people, but then by the end of it, it was fairly, it was a lot of duct tape on that code. If you've ever done an engineering project where you're not really sure the path from point A to point B, it's almost like. Building a house by building one room at a time.[00:09:14] Bret: The, there's not a lot of architectural cohesion at the end. And then we acquired a company called Keyhole, which became Google earth, which was like that three, it was a native windows app as well, separate app, great app, but with that, we got licenses to all this satellite imagery. And so in August of 2005, we added.[00:09:33] Bret: Satellite imagery to Google Maps, which added even more complexity in the code base. And then we decided we wanted to support Safari. There was no mobile phones yet. So Safari was this like nascent browser on, on the Mac. And it turns out there's like a lot of decisions behind the scenes, sort of inspired by this windows app, like heavy use of XML and XSLT and all these like.[00:09:54] Bret: Technologies that were like briefly fashionable in the early two thousands and everyone hates now for good [00:10:00] reason. And it turns out that all of the XML functionality and Internet Explorer wasn't supporting Safari. So people are like re implementing like XML parsers. And it was just like this like pile of s**t.[00:10:11] Bret: And I had to say a s**t on your part. Yeah, of[00:10:12] Alessio: course.[00:10:13] Bret: So. It went from this like beautifully elegant application that everyone was proud of to something that probably had hundreds of K of JavaScript, which sounds like nothing. Now we're talking like people have modems, you know, not all modems, but it was a big deal.[00:10:29] Bret: So it was like slow. It took a while to load and just, it wasn't like a great code base. Like everything was fragile. So I just got. Super frustrated by it. And then one weekend I did rewrite all of it. And at the time the word JSON hadn't been coined yet too, just to give you a sense. So it's all XML.[00:10:47] swyx: Yeah.[00:10:47] Bret: So we used what is now you would call JSON, but I just said like, let's use eval so that we can parse the data fast. And, and again, that's, it would literally as JSON, but at the time there was no name for it. So we [00:11:00] just said, let's. Pass on JavaScript from the server and eval it. And then somebody just refactored the whole thing.[00:11:05] Bret: And, and it wasn't like I was some genius. It was just like, you know, if you knew everything you wished you had known at the beginning and I knew all the functionality, cause I was the primary, one of the primary authors of the JavaScript. And I just like, I just drank a lot of coffee and just stayed up all weekend.[00:11:22] Bret: And then I, I guess I developed a bit of reputation and no one knew about this for a long time. And then Paul who created Gmail and I ended up starting a company with him too, after all of this told this on a podcast and now it's large, but it's largely true. I did rewrite it and it, my proudest thing.[00:11:38] Bret: And I think JavaScript people appreciate this. Like the un G zipped bundle size for all of Google maps. When I rewrote, it was 20 K G zipped. It was like much smaller for the entire application. It went down by like 10 X. So. What happened on Google? Google is a pretty mainstream company. And so like our usage is shot up because it turns out like it's faster.[00:11:57] Bret: Just being faster is worth a lot of [00:12:00] percentage points of growth at a scale of Google. So how[00:12:03] swyx: much modern tooling did you have? Like test suites no compilers.[00:12:07] Bret: Actually, that's not true. We did it one thing. So I actually think Google, I, you can. Download it. There's a, Google has a closure compiler, a closure compiler.[00:12:15] Bret: I don't know if anyone still uses it. It's gone. Yeah. Yeah. It's sort of gone out of favor. Yeah. Well, even until recently it was better than most JavaScript minifiers because it was more like it did a lot more renaming of variables and things. Most people use ES build now just cause it's fast and closure compilers built on Java and super slow and stuff like that.[00:12:37] Bret: But, so we did have that, that was it. Okay.[00:12:39] The Evolution of Web Applications[00:12:39] Bret: So and that was treated internally, you know, it was a really interesting time at Google at the time because there's a lot of teams working on fairly advanced JavaScript when no one was. So Google suggest, which Kevin Gibbs was the tech lead for, was the first kind of type ahead, autocomplete, I believe in a web browser, and now it's just pervasive in search boxes that you sort of [00:13:00] see a type ahead there.[00:13:01] Bret: I mean, chat, dbt[00:13:01] swyx: just added it. It's kind of like a round trip.[00:13:03] Bret: Totally. No, it's now pervasive as a UI affordance, but that was like Kevin's 20 percent project. And then Gmail, Paul you know, he tells the story better than anyone, but he's like, you know, basically was scratching his own itch, but what was really neat about it is email, because it's such a productivity tool, just needed to be faster.[00:13:21] Bret: So, you know, he was scratching his own itch of just making more stuff work on the client side. And then we, because of Lars and Yen sort of like setting the bar of this windows app or like we need our maps to be draggable. So we ended up. Not only innovate in terms of having a big sync, what would be called a single page application today, but also all the graphical stuff you know, we were crashing Firefox, like it was going out of style because, you know, when you make a document object model with the idea that it's a document and then you layer on some JavaScript and then we're essentially abusing all of this, it just was running into code paths that were not.[00:13:56] Bret: Well, it's rotten, you know, at this time. And so it was [00:14:00] super fun. And, and, you know, in the building you had, so you had compilers, people helping minify JavaScript just practically, but there is a great engineering team. So they were like, that's why Closure Compiler is so good. It was like a. Person who actually knew about programming languages doing it, not just, you know, writing regular expressions.[00:14:17] Bret: And then the team that is now the Chrome team believe, and I, I don't know this for a fact, but I'm pretty sure Google is the main contributor to Firefox for a long time in terms of code. And a lot of browser people were there. So every time we would crash Firefox, we'd like walk up two floors and say like, what the hell is going on here?[00:14:35] Bret: And they would load their browser, like in a debugger. And we could like figure out exactly what was breaking. And you can't change the code, right? Cause it's the browser. It's like slow, right? I mean, slow to update. So, but we could figure out exactly where the bug was and then work around it in our JavaScript.[00:14:52] Bret: So it was just like new territory. Like so super, super fun time, just like a lot of, a lot of great engineers figuring out [00:15:00] new things. And And now, you know, the word, this term is no longer in fashion, but the word Ajax, which was asynchronous JavaScript and XML cause I'm telling you XML, but see the word XML there, to be fair, the way you made HTTP requests from a client to server was this.[00:15:18] Bret: Object called XML HTTP request because Microsoft and making Outlook web access back in the day made this and it turns out to have nothing to do with XML. It's just a way of making HTTP requests because XML was like the fashionable thing. It was like that was the way you, you know, you did it. But the JSON came out of that, you know, and then a lot of the best practices around building JavaScript applications is pre React.[00:15:44] Bret: I think React was probably the big conceptual step forward that we needed. Even my first social network after Google, we used a lot of like HTML injection and. Making real time updates was still very hand coded and it's really neat when you [00:16:00] see conceptual breakthroughs like react because it's, I just love those things where it's like obvious once you see it, but it's so not obvious until you do.[00:16:07] Bret: And actually, well, I'm sure we'll get into AI, but I, I sort of feel like we'll go through that evolution with AI agents as well that I feel like we're missing a lot of the core abstractions that I think in 10 years we'll be like, gosh, how'd you make agents? Before that, you know, but it was kind of that early days of web applications.[00:16:22] swyx: There's a lot of contenders for the reactive jobs of of AI, but no clear winner yet. I would say one thing I was there for, I mean, there's so much we can go into there. You just covered so much.[00:16:32] Product Management and Engineering Synergy[00:16:32] swyx: One thing I just, I just observe is that I think the early Google days had this interesting mix of PM and engineer, which I think you are, you didn't, you didn't wait for PM to tell you these are my, this is my PRD.[00:16:42] swyx: This is my requirements.[00:16:44] mix: Oh,[00:16:44] Bret: okay.[00:16:45] swyx: I wasn't technically a software engineer. I mean,[00:16:48] Bret: by title, obviously. Right, right, right.[00:16:51] swyx: It's like a blend. And I feel like these days, product is its own discipline and its own lore and own industry and engineering is its own thing. And there's this process [00:17:00] that happens and they're kind of separated, but you don't produce as good of a product as if they were the same person.[00:17:06] swyx: And I'm curious, you know, if, if that, if that sort of resonates in, in, in terms of like comparing early Google versus modern startups that you see out there,[00:17:16] Bret: I certainly like wear a lot of hats. So, you know, sort of biased in this, but I really agree that there's a lot of power and combining product design engineering into as few people as possible because, you know few great things have been created by committee, you know, and so.[00:17:33] Bret: If engineering is an order taking organization for product you can sometimes make meaningful things, but rarely will you create extremely well crafted breakthrough products. Those tend to be small teams who deeply understand the customer need that they're solving, who have a. Maniacal focus on outcomes.[00:17:53] Bret: And I think the reason why it's, I think for some areas, if you look at like software as a service five years ago, maybe you can have a [00:18:00] separation of product and engineering because most software as a service created five years ago. I wouldn't say there's like a lot of like. Technological breakthroughs required for most, you know, business applications.[00:18:11] Bret: And if you're making expense reporting software or whatever, it's useful. I don't mean to be dismissive of expense reporting software, but you probably just want to understand like, what are the requirements of the finance department? What are the requirements of an individual file expense report? Okay.[00:18:25] Bret: Go implement that. And you kind of know how web applications are implemented. You kind of know how to. How databases work, how to build auto scaling with your AWS cluster, whatever, you know, it's just, you're just applying best practices to yet another problem when you have areas like the early days of mobile development or the early days of interactive web applications, which I think Google Maps and Gmail represent, or now AI agents, you're in this constant conversation with what the requirements of your customers and stakeholders are and all the different people interacting with it.[00:18:58] Bret: And the capabilities of the [00:19:00] technology. And it's almost impossible to specify the requirements of a product when you're not sure of the limitations of the technology itself. And that's why I use the word conversation. It's not literal. That's sort of funny to use that word in the age of conversational AI.[00:19:15] Bret: You're constantly sort of saying, like, ideally, you could sprinkle some magic AI pixie dust and solve all the world's problems, but it's not the way it works. And it turns out that actually, I'll just give an interesting example.[00:19:26] AI Agents and Modern Tooling[00:19:26] Bret: I think most people listening probably use co pilots to code like Cursor or Devon or Microsoft Copilot or whatever.[00:19:34] Bret: Most of those tools are, they're remarkable. I'm, I couldn't, you know, imagine development without them now, but they're not autonomous yet. Like I wouldn't let it just write most code without my interactively inspecting it. We just are somewhere between it's an amazing co pilot and it's an autonomous software engineer.[00:19:53] Bret: As a product manager, like your aspirations for what the product is are like kind of meaningful. But [00:20:00] if you're a product person, yeah, of course you'd say it should be autonomous. You should click a button and program should come out the other side. The requirements meaningless. Like what matters is like, what is based on the like very nuanced limitations of the technology.[00:20:14] Bret: What is it capable of? And then how do you maximize the leverage? It gives a software engineering team, given those very nuanced trade offs. Coupled with the fact that those nuanced trade offs are changing more rapidly than any technology in my memory, meaning every few months you'll have new models with new capabilities.[00:20:34] Bret: So how do you construct a product that can absorb those new capabilities as rapidly as possible as well? That requires such a combination of technical depth and understanding the customer that you really need more integration. Of product design and engineering. And so I think it's why with these big technology waves, I think startups have a bit of a leg up relative to incumbents because they [00:21:00] tend to be sort of more self actualized in terms of just like bringing those disciplines closer together.[00:21:06] Bret: And in particular, I think entrepreneurs, the proverbial full stack engineers, you know, have a leg up as well because. I think most breakthroughs happen when you have someone who can understand those extremely nuanced technical trade offs, have a vision for a product. And then in the process of building it, have that, as I said, like metaphorical conversation with the technology, right?[00:21:30] Bret: Gosh, I ran into a technical limit that I didn't expect. It's not just like changing that feature. You might need to refactor the whole product based on that. And I think that's, that it's particularly important right now. So I don't, you know, if you, if you're building a big ERP system, probably there's a great reason to have product and engineering.[00:21:51] Bret: I think in general, the disciplines are there for a reason. I think when you're dealing with something as nuanced as the like technologies, like large language models today, there's a ton of [00:22:00] advantage of having. Individuals or organizations that integrate the disciplines more formally.[00:22:05] Alessio: That makes a lot of sense.[00:22:06] Alessio: I've run a lot of engineering teams in the past, and I think the product versus engineering tension has always been more about effort than like whether or not the feature is buildable. But I think, yeah, today you see a lot more of like. Models actually cannot do that. And I think the most interesting thing is on the startup side, people don't yet know where a lot of the AI value is going to accrue.[00:22:26] Alessio: So you have this rush of people building frameworks, building infrastructure, layered things, but we don't really know the shape of the compute. I'm curious that Sierra, like how you thought about building an house, a lot of the tooling for evals or like just, you know, building the agents and all of that.[00:22:41] Alessio: Versus how you see some of the startup opportunities that is maybe still out there.[00:22:46] Bret: We build most of our tooling in house at Sierra, not all. It's, we don't, it's not like not invented here syndrome necessarily, though, maybe slightly guilty of that in some ways, but because we're trying to build a platform [00:23:00] that's in Dorian, you know, we really want to have control over our own destiny.[00:23:03] Bret: And you had made a comment earlier that like. We're still trying to figure out who like the reactive agents are and the jury is still out. I would argue it hasn't been created yet. I don't think the jury is still out to go use that metaphor. We're sort of in the jQuery era of agents, not the react era.[00:23:19] Bret: And, and that's like a throwback for people listening,[00:23:22] swyx: we shouldn't rush it. You know?[00:23:23] Bret: No, yeah, that's my point is. And so. Because we're trying to create an enduring company at Sierra that outlives us, you know, I'm not sure we want to like attach our cart to some like to a horse where it's not clear that like we've figured out and I actually want as a company, we're trying to enable just at a high level and I'll, I'll quickly go back to tech at Sierra, we help consumer brands build customer facing AI agents.[00:23:48] Bret: So. Everyone from Sonos to ADT home security to Sirius XM, you know, if you call them on the phone and AI will pick up with you, you know, chat with them on the Sirius XM homepage. It's an AI agent called Harmony [00:24:00] that they've built on our platform. We're what are the contours of what it means for someone to build an end to end complete customer experience with AI with conversational AI.[00:24:09] Bret: You know, we really want to dive into the deep end of, of all the trade offs to do it. You know, where do you use fine tuning? Where do you string models together? You know, where do you use reasoning? Where do you use generation? How do you use reasoning? How do you express the guardrails of an agentic process?[00:24:25] Bret: How do you impose determinism on a fundamentally non deterministic technology? There's just a lot of really like as an important design space. And I could sit here and tell you, we have the best approach. Every entrepreneur will, you know. But I hope that in two years, we look back at our platform and laugh at how naive we were, because that's the pace of change broadly.[00:24:45] Bret: If you talk about like the startup opportunities, I'm not wholly skeptical of tools companies, but I'm fairly skeptical. There's always an exception for every role, but I believe that certainly there's a big market for [00:25:00] frontier models, but largely for companies with huge CapEx budgets. So. Open AI and Microsoft's Anthropic and Amazon Web Services, Google Cloud XAI, which is very well capitalized now, but I think the, the idea that a company can make money sort of pre training a foundation model is probably not true.[00:25:20] Bret: It's hard to, you're competing with just, you know, unreasonably large CapEx budgets. And I just like the cloud infrastructure market, I think will be largely there. I also really believe in the applications of AI. And I define that not as like building agents or things like that. I define it much more as like, you're actually solving a problem for a business.[00:25:40] Bret: So it's what Harvey is doing in legal profession or what cursor is doing for software engineering or what we're doing for customer experience and customer service. The reason I believe in that is I do think that in the age of AI, what's really interesting about software is it can actually complete a task.[00:25:56] Bret: It can actually do a job, which is very different than the value proposition of [00:26:00] software was to ancient history two years ago. And as a consequence, I think the way you build a solution and For a domain is very different than you would have before, which means that it's not obvious, like the incumbent incumbents have like a leg up, you know, necessarily, they certainly have some advantages, but there's just such a different form factor, you know, for providing a solution and it's just really valuable.[00:26:23] Bret: You know, it's. Like just think of how much money cursor is saving software engineering teams or the alternative, how much revenue it can produce tool making is really challenging. If you look at the cloud market, just as a analog, there are a lot of like interesting tools, companies, you know, Confluent, Monetized Kafka, Snowflake, Hortonworks, you know, there's a, there's a bunch of them.[00:26:48] Bret: A lot of them, you know, have that mix of sort of like like confluence or have the open source or open core or whatever you call it. I, I, I'm not an expert in this area. You know, I do think [00:27:00] that developers are fickle. I think that in the tool space, I probably like. Default towards open source being like the area that will win.[00:27:09] Bret: It's hard to build a company around this and then you end up with companies sort of built around open source to that can work. Don't get me wrong, but I just think that it's nowadays the tools are changing so rapidly that I'm like, not totally skeptical of tool makers, but I just think that open source will broadly win, but I think that the CapEx required for building frontier models is such that it will go to a handful of big companies.[00:27:33] Bret: And then I really believe in agents for specific domains which I think will, it's sort of the analog to software as a service in this new era. You know, it's like, if you just think of the cloud. You can lease a server. It's just a low level primitive, or you can buy an app like you know, Shopify or whatever.[00:27:51] Bret: And most people building a storefront would prefer Shopify over hand rolling their e commerce storefront. I think the same thing will be true of AI. So [00:28:00] I've. I tend to like, if I have a, like an entrepreneur asked me for advice, I'm like, you know, move up the stack as far as you can towards a customer need.[00:28:09] Bret: Broadly, but I, but it doesn't reduce my excitement about what is the reactive building agents kind of thing, just because it is, it is the right question to ask, but I think we'll probably play out probably an open source space more than anything else.[00:28:21] swyx: Yeah, and it's not a priority for you. There's a lot in there.[00:28:24] swyx: I'm kind of curious about your idea maze towards, there are many customer needs. You happen to identify customer experience as yours, but it could equally have been coding assistance or whatever. I think for some, I'm just kind of curious at the top down, how do you look at the world in terms of the potential problem space?[00:28:44] swyx: Because there are many people out there who are very smart and pick the wrong problem.[00:28:47] Bret: Yeah, that's a great question.[00:28:48] Future of Software Development[00:28:48] Bret: By the way, I would love to talk about the future of software, too, because despite the fact it didn't pick coding, I have a lot of that, but I can talk to I can answer your question, though, you know I think when a technology is as [00:29:00] cool as large language models.[00:29:02] Bret: You just see a lot of people starting from the technology and searching for a problem to solve. And I think it's why you see a lot of tools companies, because as a software engineer, you start building an app or a demo and you, you encounter some pain points. You're like,[00:29:17] swyx: a lot of[00:29:17] Bret: people are experiencing the same pain point.[00:29:19] Bret: What if I make it? That it's just very incremental. And you know, I always like to use the metaphor, like you can sell coffee beans, roasted coffee beans. You can add some value. You took coffee beans and you roasted them and roasted coffee beans largely, you know, are priced relative to the cost of the beans.[00:29:39] Bret: Or you can sell a latte and a latte. Is rarely priced directly like as a percentage of coffee bean prices. In fact, if you buy a latte at the airport, it's a captive audience. So it's a really expensive latte. And there's just a lot that goes into like. How much does a latte cost? And I bring it up because there's a supply chain from growing [00:30:00] coffee beans to roasting coffee beans to like, you know, you could make one at home or you could be in the airport and buy one and the margins of the company selling lattes in the airport is a lot higher than the, you know, people roasting the coffee beans and it's because you've actually solved a much more acute human problem in the airport.[00:30:19] Bret: And, and it's just worth a lot more to that person in that moment. It's kind of the way I think about technology too. It sounds funny to liken it to coffee beans, but you're selling tools on top of a large language model yet in some ways your market is big, but you're probably going to like be price compressed just because you're sort of a piece of infrastructure and then you have open source and all these other things competing with you naturally.[00:30:43] Bret: If you go and solve a really big business problem for somebody, that's actually like a meaningful business problem that AI facilitates, they will value it according to the value of that business problem. And so I actually feel like people should just stop. You're like, no, that's, that's [00:31:00] unfair. If you're searching for an idea of people, I, I love people trying things, even if, I mean, most of the, a lot of the greatest ideas have been things no one believed in.[00:31:07] Bret: So I like, if you're passionate about something, go do it. Like who am I to say, yeah, a hundred percent. Or Gmail, like Paul as far, I mean I, some of it's Laura at this point, but like Gmail is Paul's own email for a long time. , and then I amusingly and Paul can't correct me, I'm pretty sure he sent her in a link and like the first comment was like, this is really neat.[00:31:26] Bret: It would be great. It was not your email, but my own . I don't know if it's a true story. I'm pretty sure it's, yeah, I've read that before. So scratch your own niche. Fine. Like it depends on what your goal is. If you wanna do like a venture backed company, if its a. Passion project, f*****g passion, do it like don't listen to anybody.[00:31:41] Bret: In fact, but if you're trying to start, you know an enduring company, solve an important business problem. And I, and I do think that in the world of agents, the software industries has shifted where you're not just helping people more. People be more productive, but you're actually accomplishing tasks autonomously.[00:31:58] Bret: And as a consequence, I think the [00:32:00] addressable market has just greatly expanded just because software can actually do things now and actually accomplish tasks and how much is coding autocomplete worth. A fair amount. How much is the eventual, I'm certain we'll have it, the software agent that actually writes the code and delivers it to you, that's worth a lot.[00:32:20] Bret: And so, you know, I would just maybe look up from the large language models and start thinking about the economy and, you know, think from first principles. I don't wanna get too far afield, but just think about which parts of the economy. We'll benefit most from this intelligence and which parts can absorb it most easily.[00:32:38] Bret: And what would an agent in this space look like? Who's the customer of it is the technology feasible. And I would just start with these business problems more. And I think, you know, the best companies tend to have great engineers who happen to have great insight into a market. And it's that last part that I think some people.[00:32:56] Bret: Whether or not they have, it's like people start so much in the technology, they [00:33:00] lose the forest for the trees a little bit.[00:33:02] Alessio: How do you think about the model of still selling some sort of software versus selling more package labor? I feel like when people are selling the package labor, it's almost more stateless, you know, like it's easier to swap out if you're just putting an input and getting an output.[00:33:16] Alessio: If you think about coding, if there's no ID, you're just putting a prompt and getting back an app. It doesn't really matter. Who generates the app, you know, you have less of a buy in versus the platform you're building, I'm sure on the backend customers have to like put on their documentation and they have, you know, different workflows that they can tie in what's kind of like the line to draw there versus like going full where you're managed customer support team as a service outsource versus.[00:33:40] Alessio: This is the Sierra platform that you can build on. What was that decision? I'll sort of[00:33:44] Bret: like decouple the question in some ways, which is when you have something that's an agent, who is the person using it and what do they want to do with it? So let's just take your coding agent for a second. I will talk about Sierra as well.[00:33:59] Bret: Who's the [00:34:00] customer of a, an agent that actually produces software? Is it a software engineering manager? Is it a software engineer? And it's there, you know, intern so to speak. I don't know. I mean, we'll figure this out over the next few years. Like what is that? And is it generating code that you then review?[00:34:16] Bret: Is it generating code with a set of unit tests that pass, what is the actual. For lack of a better word contract, like, how do you know that it did what you wanted it to do? And then I would say like the product and the pricing, the packaging model sort of emerged from that. And I don't think the world's figured out.[00:34:33] Bret: I think it'll be different for every agent. You know, in our customer base, we do what's called outcome based pricing. So essentially every time the AI agent. Solves the problem or saves a customer or whatever it might be. There's a pre negotiated rate for that. We do that. Cause it's, we think that that's sort of the correct way agents, you know, should be packaged.[00:34:53] Bret: I look back at the history of like cloud software and notably the introduction of the browser, which led to [00:35:00] software being delivered in a browser, like Salesforce to. Famously invented sort of software as a service, which is both a technical delivery model through the browser, but also a business model, which is you subscribe to it rather than pay for a perpetual license.[00:35:13] Bret: Those two things are somewhat orthogonal, but not really. If you think about the idea of software running in a browser, that's hosted. Data center that you don't own, you sort of needed to change the business model because you don't, you can't really buy a perpetual license or something otherwise like, how do you afford making changes to it?[00:35:31] Bret: So it only worked when you were buying like a new version every year or whatever. So to some degree, but then the business model shift actually changed business as we know it, because now like. Things like Adobe Photoshop. Now you subscribe to rather than purchase. So it ended up where you had a technical shift and a business model shift that were very logically intertwined that actually the business model shift was turned out to be as significant as the technical as the shift.[00:35:59] Bret: And I think with [00:36:00] agents, because they actually accomplish a job, I do think that it doesn't make sense to me that you'd pay for the privilege of like. Using the software like that coding agent, like if it writes really bad code, like fire it, you know, I don't know what the right metaphor is like you should pay for a job.[00:36:17] Bret: Well done in my opinion. I mean, that's how you pay your software engineers, right? And[00:36:20] swyx: and well, not really. We paid to put them on salary and give them options and they vest over time. That's fair.[00:36:26] Bret: But my point is that you don't pay them for how many characters they write, which is sort of the token based, you know, whatever, like, There's a, that famous Apple story where we're like asking for a report of how many lines of code you wrote.[00:36:40] Bret: And one of the engineers showed up with like a negative number cause he had just like done a big refactoring. There was like a big F you to management who didn't understand how software is written. You know, my sense is like the traditional usage based or seat based thing. It's just going to look really antiquated.[00:36:55] Bret: Cause it's like asking your software engineer, how many lines of code did you write today? Like who cares? Like, cause [00:37:00] absolutely no correlation. So my old view is I don't think it's be different in every category, but I do think that that is the, if an agent is doing a job, you should, I think it properly incentivizes the maker of that agent and the customer of, of your pain for the job well done.[00:37:16] Bret: It's not always perfect to measure. It's hard to measure engineering productivity, but you can, you should do something other than how many keys you typed, you know Talk about perverse incentives for AI, right? Like I can write really long functions to do the same thing, right? So broadly speaking, you know, I do think that we're going to see a change in business models of software towards outcomes.[00:37:36] Bret: And I think you'll see a change in delivery models too. And, and, you know, in our customer base you know, we empower our customers to really have their hands on the steering wheel of what the agent does they, they want and need that. But the role is different. You know, at a lot of our customers, the customer experience operations folks have renamed themselves the AI architects, which I think is really cool.[00:37:55] Bret: And, you know, it's like in the early days of the Internet, there's the role of the webmaster. [00:38:00] And I don't know whether your webmaster is not a fashionable, you know, Term, nor is it a job anymore? I just, I don't know. Will they, our tech stand the test of time? Maybe, maybe not. But I do think that again, I like, you know, because everyone listening right now is a software engineer.[00:38:14] Bret: Like what is the form factor of a coding agent? And actually I'll, I'll take a breath. Cause actually I have a bunch of pins on them. Like I wrote a blog post right before Christmas, just on the future of software development. And one of the things that's interesting is like, if you look at the way I use cursor today, as an example, it's inside of.[00:38:31] Bret: A repackaged visual studio code environment. I sometimes use the sort of agentic parts of it, but it's largely, you know, I've sort of gotten a good routine of making it auto complete code in the way I want through tuning it properly when it actually can write. I do wonder what like the future of development environments will look like.[00:38:55] Bret: And to your point on what is a software product, I think it's going to change a lot in [00:39:00] ways that will surprise us. But I always use, I use the metaphor in my blog post of, have you all driven around in a way, Mo around here? Yeah, everyone has. And there are these Jaguars, the really nice cars, but it's funny because it still has a steering wheel, even though there's no one sitting there and the steering wheels like turning and stuff clearly in the future.[00:39:16] Bret: If once we get to that, be more ubiquitous, like why have the steering wheel and also why have all the seats facing forward? Maybe just for car sickness. I don't know, but you could totally rearrange the car. I mean, so much of the car is oriented around the driver, so. It stands to reason to me that like, well, autonomous agents for software engineering run through visual studio code.[00:39:37] Bret: That seems a little bit silly because having a single source code file open one at a time is kind of a goofy form factor for when like the code isn't being written primarily by you, but it begs the question of what's your relationship with that agent. And I think the same is true in our industry of customer experience, which is like.[00:39:55] Bret: Who are the people managing this agent? What are the tools do they need? And they definitely need [00:40:00] tools, but it's probably pretty different than the tools we had before. It's certainly different than training a contact center team. And as software engineers, I think that I would like to see particularly like on the passion project side or research side.[00:40:14] Bret: More innovation in programming languages. I think that we're bringing the cost of writing code down to zero. So the fact that we're still writing Python with AI cracks me up just cause it's like literally was designed to be ergonomic to write, not safe to run or fast to run. I would love to see more innovation and how we verify program correctness.[00:40:37] Bret: I studied for formal verification in college a little bit and. It's not very fashionable because it's really like tedious and slow and doesn't work very well. If a lot of code is being written by a machine, you know, one of the primary values we can provide is verifying that it actually does what we intend that it does.[00:40:56] Bret: I think there should be lots of interesting things in the software development life cycle, like how [00:41:00] we think of testing and everything else, because. If you think about if we have to manually read every line of code that's coming out as machines, it will just rate limit how much the machines can do. The alternative is totally unsafe.[00:41:13] Bret: So I wouldn't want to put code in production that didn't go through proper code review and inspection. So my whole view is like, I actually think there's like an AI native I don't think the coding agents don't work well enough to do this yet, but once they do, what is sort of an AI native software development life cycle and how do you actually.[00:41:31] Bret: Enable the creators of software to produce the highest quality, most robust, fastest software and know that it's correct. And I think that's an incredible opportunity. I mean, how much C code can we rewrite and rust and make it safe so that there's fewer security vulnerabilities. Can we like have more efficient, safer code than ever before?[00:41:53] Bret: And can you have someone who's like that guy in the matrix, you know, like staring at the little green things, like where could you have an operator [00:42:00] of a code generating machine be like superhuman? I think that's a cool vision. And I think too many people are focused on like. Autocomplete, you know, right now, I'm not, I'm not even, I'm guilty as charged.[00:42:10] Bret: I guess in some ways, but I just like, I'd like to see some bolder ideas. And that's why when you were joking, you know, talking about what's the react of whatever, I think we're clearly in a local maximum, you know, metaphor, like sort of conceptual local maximum, obviously it's moving really fast. I think we're moving out of it.[00:42:26] Alessio: Yeah. At the end of 23, I've read this blog post from syntax to semantics. Like if you think about Python. It's taking C and making it more semantic and LLMs are like the ultimate semantic program, right? You can just talk to them and they can generate any type of syntax from your language. But again, the languages that they have to use were made for us, not for them.[00:42:46] Alessio: But the problem is like, as long as you will ever need a human to intervene, you cannot change the language under it. You know what I mean? So I'm curious at what point of automation we'll need to get, we're going to be okay making changes. To the underlying languages, [00:43:00] like the programming languages versus just saying, Hey, you just got to write Python because I understand Python and I'm more important at the end of the day than the model.[00:43:08] Alessio: But I think that will change, but I don't know if it's like two years or five years. I think it's more nuanced actually.[00:43:13] Bret: So I think there's a, some of the more interesting programming languages bring semantics into syntax. So let me, that's a little reductive, but like Rust as an example, Rust is memory safe.[00:43:25] Bret: Statically, and that was a really interesting conceptual, but it's why it's hard to write rust. It's why most people write python instead of rust. I think rust programs are safer and faster than python, probably slower to compile. But like broadly speaking, like given the option, if you didn't have to care about the labor that went into it.[00:43:45] Bret: You should prefer a program written in Rust over a program written in Python, just because it will run more efficiently. It's almost certainly safer, et cetera, et cetera, depending on how you define safe, but most people don't write Rust because it's kind of a pain in the ass. And [00:44:00] the audience of people who can is smaller, but it's sort of better in most, most ways.[00:44:05] Bret: And again, let's say you're making a web service and you didn't have to care about how hard it was to write. If you just got the output of the web service, the rest one would be cheaper to operate. It's certainly cheaper and probably more correct just because there's so much in the static analysis implied by the rest programming language that it probably will have fewer runtime errors and things like that as well.[00:44:25] Bret: So I just give that as an example, because so rust, at least my understanding that came out of the Mozilla team, because. There's lots of security vulnerabilities in the browser and it needs to be really fast. They said, okay, we want to put more of a burden at the authorship time to have fewer issues at runtime.[00:44:43] Bret: And we need the constraint that it has to be done statically because browsers need to be really fast. My sense is if you just think about like the, the needs of a programming language today, where the role of a software engineer is [00:45:00] to use an AI to generate functionality and audit that it does in fact work as intended, maybe functionally, maybe from like a correctness standpoint, some combination thereof, how would you create a programming system that facilitated that?[00:45:15] Bret: And, you know, I bring up Rust is because I think it's a good example of like, I think given a choice of writing in C or Rust, you should choose Rust today. I think most people would say that, even C aficionados, just because. C is largely less safe for very similar, you know, trade offs, you know, for the, the system and now with AI, it's like, okay, well, that just changes the game on writing these things.[00:45:36] Bret: And so like, I just wonder if a combination of programming languages that are more structurally oriented towards the values that we need from an AI generated program, verifiable correctness and all of that. If it's tedious to produce for a person, that maybe doesn't matter. But one thing, like if I asked you, is this rest program memory safe?[00:45:58] Bret: You wouldn't have to read it, you just have [00:46:00] to compile it. So that's interesting. I mean, that's like an, that's one example of a very modest form of formal verification. So I bring that up because I do think you have AI inspect AI, you can have AI reviewed. Do AI code reviews. It would disappoint me if the best we could get was AI reviewing Python and having scaled a few very large.[00:46:21] Bret: Websites that were written on Python. It's just like, you know, expensive and it's like every, trust me, every team who's written a big web service in Python has experimented with like Pi Pi and all these things just to make it slightly more efficient than it naturally is. You don't really have true multi threading anyway.[00:46:36] Bret: It's just like clearly that you do it just because it's convenient to write. And I just feel like we're, I don't want to say it's insane. I just mean. I do think we're at a local maximum. And I would hope that we create a programming system, a combination of programming languages, formal verification, testing, automated code reviews, where you can use AI to generate software in a high scale way and trust it.[00:46:59] Bret: And you're [00:47:00] not limited by your ability to read it necessarily. I don't know exactly what form that would take, but I feel like that would be a pretty cool world to live in.[00:47:08] Alessio: Yeah. We had Chris Lanner on the podcast. He's doing great work with modular. I mean, I love. LVM. Yeah. Basically merging rust in and Python.[00:47:15] Alessio: That's kind of the idea. Should be, but I'm curious is like, for them a big use case was like making it compatible with Python, same APIs so that Python developers could use it. Yeah. And so I, I wonder at what point, well, yeah.[00:47:26] Bret: At least my understanding is they're targeting the data science Yeah. Machine learning crowd, which is all written in Python, so still feels like a local maximum.[00:47:34] Bret: Yeah.[00:47:34] swyx: Yeah, exactly. I'll force you to make a prediction. You know, Python's roughly 30 years old. In 30 years from now, is Rust going to be bigger than Python?[00:47:42] Bret: I don't know this, but just, I don't even know this is a prediction. I just am sort of like saying stuff I hope is true. I would like to see an AI native programming language and programming system, and I use language because I'm not sure language is even the right thing, but I hope in 30 years, there's an AI native way we make [00:48:00] software that is wholly uncorrelated with the current set of programming languages.[00:48:04] Bret: or not uncorrelated, but I think most programming languages today were designed to be efficiently authored by people and some have different trade offs.[00:48:15] Evolution of Programming Languages[00:48:15] Bret: You know, you have Haskell and others that were designed for abstractions for parallelism and things like that. You have programming languages like Python, which are designed to be very easily written, sort of like Perl and Python lineage, which is why data scientists use it.[00:48:31] Bret: It's it can, it has a. Interactive mode, things like that. And I love, I'm a huge Python fan. So despite all my Python trash talk, a huge Python fan wrote at least two of my three companies were exclusively written in Python and then C came out of the birth of Unix and it wasn't the first, but certainly the most prominent first step after assembly language, right?[00:48:54] Bret: Where you had higher level abstractions rather than and going beyond go to, to like abstractions, [00:49:00] like the for loop and the while loop.[00:49:01] The Future of Software Engineering[00:49:01] Bret: So I just think that if the act of writing code is no longer a meaningful human exercise, maybe it will be, I don't know. I'm just saying it sort of feels like maybe it's one of those parts of history that just will sort of like go away, but there's still the role of this offer engineer, like the person actually building the system.[00:49:20] Bret: Right. And. What does a programming system for that form factor look like?[00:49:25] React and Front-End Development[00:49:25] Bret: And I, I just have a, I hope to be just like I mentioned, I remember I was at Facebook in the very early days when, when, what is now react was being created. And I remember when the, it was like released open source I had left by that time and I was just like, this is so f*****g cool.[00:49:42] Bret: Like, you know, to basically model your app independent of the data flowing through it, just made everything easier. And then now. You know, I can create, like there's a lot of the front end software gym play is like a little chaotic for me, to be honest with you. It is like, it's sort of like [00:50:00] abstraction soup right now for me, but like some of those core ideas felt really ergonomic.[00:50:04] Bret: I just wanna, I'm just looking forward to the day when someone comes up with a programming system that feels both really like an aha moment, but completely foreign to me at the same time. Because they created it with sort of like from first principles recognizing that like. Authoring code in an editor is maybe not like the primary like reason why a programming system exists anymore.[00:50:26] Bret: And I think that's like, that would be a very exciting day for me.[00:50:28] The Role of AI in Programming[00:50:28] swyx: Yeah, I would say like the various versions of this discussion have happened at the end of the day, you still need to precisely communicate what you want. As a manager of people, as someone who has done many, many legal contracts, you know how hard that is.[00:50:42] swyx: And then now we have to talk to machines doing that and AIs interpreting what we mean and reading our minds effectively. I don't know how to get across that barrier of translating human intent to instructions. And yes, it can be more declarative, but I don't know if it'll ever Crossover from being [00:51:00] a programming language to something more than that.[00:51:02] Bret: I agree with you. And I actually do think if you look at like a legal contract, you know, the imprecision of the English language, it's like a flaw in the system. How many[00:51:12] swyx: holes there are.[00:51:13] Bret: And I do think that when you're making a mission critical software system, I don't think it should be English language prompts.[00:51:19] Bret: I think that is silly because you want the precision of a a programming language. My point was less about that and more about if the actual act of authoring it, like if you.[00:51:32] Formal Verification in Software[00:51:32] Bret: I'll think of some embedded systems do use formal verification. I know it's very common in like security protocols now so that you can, because the importance of correctness is so great.[00:51:41] Bret: My intellectual exercise is like, why not do that for all software? I mean, probably that's silly just literally to do what we literally do for. These low level security protocols, but the only reason we don't is because it's hard and tedious and hard and tedious are no longer factors. So, like, if I could, I mean, [00:52:00] just think of, like, the silliest app on your phone right now, the idea that that app should be, like, formally verified for its correctness feels laughable right now because, like, God, why would you spend the time on it?[00:52:10] Bret: But if it's zero costs, like, yeah, I guess so. I mean, it never crashed. That's probably good. You know, why not? I just want to, like, set our bars really high. Like. We should make, software has been amazing. Like there's a Mark Andreessen blog post, software is eating the world. And you know, our whole life is, is mediated digitally.[00:52:26] Bret: And that's just increasing with AI. And now we'll have our personal agents talking to the agents on the CRO platform and it's agents all the way down, you know, our core infrastructure is running on these digital systems. We now have like, and we've had a shortage of software developers for my entire life.[00:52:45] Bret: And as a consequence, you know if you look, remember like health care, got healthcare. gov that fiasco security vulnerabilities leading to state actors getting access to critical infrastructure. I'm like. We now have like created this like amazing system that can [00:53:00] like, we can fix this, you know, and I, I just want to, I'm both excited about the productivity gains in the economy, but I just think as software engineers, we should be bolder.[00:53:08] Bret: Like we should have aspirations to fix these systems so that like in general, as you said, as precise as we want to be in the specification of the system. We can make it work correctly now, and I'm being a little bit hand wavy, and I think we need some systems. I think that's where we should set the bar, especially when so much of our life depends on this critical digital infrastructure.[00:53:28] Bret: So I'm I'm just like super optimistic about it. But actually, let's go to w
This week on the Toy Power Podcast, we have a lot of News & Announcements to cover! First off, some very sad news, regarding the loss of the man with the most Powerful Voice in the Universe. RIP John Erwin. Then, some happy news around DC McFarlane announcements, with more Super Powers releases, as well as Multiverse & Batman Begins figures! But that's not all, as keep an eye out for the very neat Batman 89'figures from Mezco too! Masters of course is releasing a lot of goodies; under their Origins, Cartoon & Mutliverse Banners. Plus an Evil teaser of an upcoming character from the Mondo 12" Line. So, So many great things from GiJoe Classified - including Ninja Force baby!! Mythic Legions, Star Wars, Gatchaman & WWE all get a plug too! Finally some Bloodsport toys & a new Combiner Transformer! Trailer talk regarding the new Jurassic World & a very extended hype chat about Fantastic Four!! Then rounding out with a very quick Reading Watching Playing! All this and more, in this extended recording! Enjoy.Support the show: http://patreon.com/toypowerpodcastSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Jack "Ziz" La Sota leader of murderous Zizian cult wanted by FBI #BorderPatrol #Zizians #TeresaYoungblut oin us as we delve into the mysterious world of cult leaders and meet Jack "Ziz" La Sota, a man wanted by the FBI for his alleged involvement in the Zizian cult. From his rise to power to his eventual downfall, we'll explore the life and crimes of this enigmatic figure. With exclusive footage and interviews, we'll uncover the truth behind the Zizian cult and its charismatic leader. Is Jack "Ziz" La Sota a mastermind or a madman?
This week on the Toy Power Podcast, we recap our Xmas Break. What exactly did we each get up to? Plus what did we score from both our loved ones, Father Christmas and / or what we went & maybe bought for ourselves!? Then we get right back on track with recapping all the latest News that has hit our radar, since we last recorded. Of course lots of things to look forward to from Marvel Legends. TMNT reveals from both JoyToy as well as Playmate; but also a Mecha Shredder from Heatboys! Super7 announce Micronauts & Silverhawks in their ReAction sublines; as well as the next wave of Ultimates Thundercats. A sour note touching on Diamond Comic Distributions; but a Colourful insight from Loyal Subjects in the form of Jem & The Holograms!! Then rounding it out, we touch on the reveals from Mattel in the form of Thundercats X MOTU! All this & more, enjoy! Support the show: http://patreon.com/toypowerpodcastSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
This week, Sony launched the mainnet for Soneium, its Ethereum Layer 2 blockchain built on the OP Stack from Optimism. Soneium is designed to support creators, developers, and fans through tools like Sony's NFT-based Fan Marketing Platform and Soneium Spark. However, Soneium's launch has sparked controversy. Its decision to blacklist some memecoins—over intellectual property concerns—has raised questions about the balance between decentralization and protecting creators' rights. Even Ethereum co-founder Vitalik Buterin weighed in, highlighting the tradeoffs businesses face in Web3. In this episode, Sota Watanabe, director of Soneium, delves into the memecoin controversy, and explains the vision for the platform, their commitment to IP protection, and what's next for Soneium in entertainment and finance. Plus, at the end of the episode, Laura speaks to Ari Gore, head of communications at Zengo Wallet, about protecting your private keys and your cryptocurrencies from natural disasters. Show highlights: 01:52 Why Sony decided to launch a layer 2 on Ethereum 05:39 How Soneium will work with creators to support them 11:29 Sota's response to the backlash about blacklisting memecoins 18:46 How Soneium protects IP rights 23:56Why Soneium attracts people from certain demographics 27:05 What the L2 blockchain will focus on next 27:05 Tips to protect your crypto safe from natural disasters 34:47 News Recap Visit our website for breaking news, analysis, op-eds, articles to learn about crypto, and much more: unchainedcrypto.com Thank you to our sponsors! Stellar Build Better Quai Network Polkadot Guests Sota Watanabe, director of Soneium Ari Gore, head of communications at Zengo Wallet Links Soneium Mainnet: Invoking Emotion And Empowering Creativity Tweet by PopPunkOnChain Tweet by 0xKawz Tweet by Vitalik Tweet by donnoh_eth Soneium's Philosophy for Responsible Innovation Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices