Podcasts about John Templeton Foundation

This week: the story of astrophysicist Charity Woodrum. Charity is an extragalactic astronomer who studies the life and death of galaxies, why some galaxies burn bright and others dim and sputter out. And in the midst of an unthinkable grief in her personal life, she discovers something in the sky – a new kind of light that would guide her path forward. Special thanks to Megan Stielstra, Jad Abumrad, Michael Woodrum, Gina Vivona, and Clair Reilly-Roe.EPISODE CREDITS: Reported by - Lulu MillerProduced by - Jessica YungFact-checking by - Diane KellyRadiolab | Lateral uts:Our episode The Darkest Dark (https://radiolab.org/podcast/the-darkest-dark) could be of interest to those seeking the deepest unknowns. EPISODE CITATIONS:Music -Clair Reilly-Roe's song “Sky Full of Ghosts” (https://zpr.io/JgauhRnj7qpX)Articles -A new documentary on Charity Woodrum's story: Space, Hope and Charity (https://www.spacehopecharityfilm.com/)Signup for our newsletter!! It includes short essays, recommendations, and details about other ways to interact with the show. Sign up (https://radiolab.org/newsletter)!Radiolab is supported by listeners like you. Support Radiolab by becoming a member of The Lab (https://members.radiolab.org/) today.Follow our show on Instagram, Twitter and Facebook @radiolab, and share your thoughts with us by emailing radiolab@wnyc.org.Leadership support for Radiolab's science programming is provided by the Simons Foundation and the John Templeton Foundation. Foundational support for Radiolab was provided by the Alfred P. Sloan Foundation.

This week, two conversations from the archives about parts of the world that are imperceptible to us, verging on almost unthinkable. We start with a moment of uncertainty in physics. Inspired by an essay written by physicist and novelist Alan Lightman, called The Accidental Universe (https://zpr.io/4965dUdNqtpQ), taken from a book of the same name. Former Radiolab co-host Robert Krulwich pays a visit to Brian Greene to ask if the latest developments in theoretical physics spell a crisis for science. He finds that we've reached the limit of what we can see and test, and we're left with mathematical equations that can't be verified by experiments or observation.Then, come along as we kick rocks. And end up tumbling down a philosophical rabbit hole where the solid things around us might not be solid at all. We talk to Jim Holt, author of Why Does the World Exist? (https://zpr.io/UqHpLnDx2QNx) who points out that when you start slicing and sleuthing in subatomic particle land, trying to get to the bottom of what makes matter, you mostly find empty space. Your hand, your chair, the floor, it's all made up of mostly nothing. Robert and Jim go toe-to-toe over whether the universe is made up of solid bits and pieces of stuff, or a cloudy foundation that more closely resembles thoughts and ideas.Signup for our newsletter!! It includes short essays, recommendations, and details about other ways to interact with the show. Sign up (https://radiolab.org/newsletter)!Radiolab is supported by listeners like you. Support Radiolab by becoming a member of The Lab (https://members.radiolab.org/) today.Follow our show on Instagram, Twitter and Facebook @radiolab, and share your thoughts with us by emailing radiolab@wnyc.org.Leadership support for Radiolab's science programming is provided by the Simons Foundation and the John Templeton Foundation. Foundational support for Radiolab was provided by the Alfred P. Sloan Foundation.

When you hear the word "shaman," I'm guessing a web of associations starts to form in your mind. Perhaps you imagine strange ceremonies and strong substances; maybe you think of an earlier time when magic and superstition reined. But shamanism is not just some relic of the past, or a curio from exotic lands. It's part of our present, and it will almost certainly be part of our future. This is because the roots of shamanism lie within us all. My guest today is Dr. Manvir Singh. Manvir is an Assistant Professor of Anthropology at the University of California, Davis and a regular contributor to The New Yorker. He's also the author of a new book—Shamanism: The Timeless Religion. Here, Manvir and I talk about his fieldwork with Mentawai shamans in Indonesia. We discuss what makes a shaman a shaman, and consider the cognitive building blocks that make shamanism so widespread and so appealing. We discuss the shamanic origins of Abrahamic religions. We consider how, over the course of history, shamanism has repeatedly resurged, despite attempts to snuff it out. And we also talk about the various forms and flavors that shamanism takes in contemporary Western societies. Along the way, Manvir and I touch on: drumming, fasting, and the “dark tent”; Jesus; experimental Edens; witches, prophets, and messiahs; glossolalia; disenchantment and re-enchantment; the rise of neoshamanism; Paleolithic rock art; hedge wizards and tech CEOs; Western exceptionalism; and the routinization of charisma. If you enjoy this episode, I highly recommend that you check out Manvir's book—it's a captivating blend of narrative and ideas and it goes far beyond what we were able to talk about here. I'll also flag that this Manvir's second time on Many Minds. Back in July of 2020 we had another conversation—broader in scope—where we talked about shamanism but also Manvir's work on witches, stories, and music. So you might check that one out as well. Alright friends, on to my conversation with Dr. Manvir Singh. Enjoy!   A transcript of this episode will be available soon.   Notes and links 4:00 – For a video examples of shamanic rituals from around the world, see Dr. Singh's recent thread on Bluesky / Twitter. 12:30 – On the idea of “cultural attraction” and “cultural attractors,” see here and here. For a recent treatment of the idea of “super-attractors,” see Dr. Singh's preprint here. 16:00 – On the case of cultural loss among the Northern Aché, see the recent work by Dr. Singh and a colleague. 17:30 – For more on Dr. Singh's theoretical framework for understanding shamanism, see his earlier academic paper. 19:00 – The 2005 review of altered states of consciousness by Vaitl et al. For more on psychedelics and altered states, see our recent episode with Chris Letheby. 29:00 – Murcia Eliade's classic work on shamanism—Shamanism: Archaic Techniques of Ecstasy. 34:00 – For the book by Martin Riesebrodt on the nature of religion, see here. 36:00 – For more on the human propensity for ritual, see our earlier episode with Dimitris Xygalatas. 43:00 – For one influential interpretation of Paleolithic rock art as evidence for shamanism, see David Lewis-Williams' book, Mind in the Cave: Consciousness and the Origins of Art. 52:00 – For a discussion of psychedelics and organized religion that touches on the “routinization of charisma,” see this article by Michael Pollan. 54:00 – For more about the case of Alice Auma, see Dr. Singh's recent piece in The New Yorker. 1:00:30 – For more about neoshamanism and Michael Harner, see the website of the Foundation for Shamanic Studies—www.shamanism.org. 1:03:00 – Samual Johnson analysis of money managers 1:04:00 – For the analysis of financial managers, by Samuel Johnson, see here.  1:06:00 – For more on the quasi-shamanic flavor of tech CEOs, see Rakesh Khurana's book, Searching for a Corporate Savior: The Irrational Quest for Charismatic CEOs. 1:08:00 – See, again, Dr. Singh's recent piece in The New Yorker in which he discusses Trump and prophet-like status. 1:13:00 – For Dr. Singh's work on other complex cultural traditions, see the website for his lab.   Recommendations The Sambia: Ritual, Sexuality, and Change in New Guinea, by Gilbert Herdt The Falling Sky: Words of a Yanomami Shaman, by Davi Kopenawa & Bruce Albert   Many Minds is a project of the Diverse Intelligences Summer Institute, which is made possible by a generous grant from the John Templeton Foundation to Indiana University. The show is hosted and produced by Kensy Cooperrider, with help from Assistant Producer Urte Laukaityte and with creative support from DISI Directors Erica Cartmill and Jacob Foster. Our artwork is by Ben Oldroyd. Our transcripts are created by Sarah Dopierala. Subscribe to Many Minds on Apple, Stitcher, Spotify, Pocket Casts, Google Play, or wherever you listen to podcasts. You can also now subscribe to the Many Minds newsletter here! We welcome your comments, questions, and suggestions. Feel free to email us at: manymindspodcast@gmail.com. s For updates about the show, visit our website or follow us on Twitter (@ManyMindsPod) or Bluesky (@manymindspod.bsky.social).

Are you willing to follow the evidence wherever it leads? Revolutionary developments in biology, such as purpose, agency, and decision-making at the cellular level, are providing stronger evidence than ever before of a purposeful creator God. My guest, Dr. Sy Garte, will show how a reductionist view of life ignores new advances in science and why we need to look beyond the evolution debate. Come join the conversation and bring your questions! Sy Garte (PhD in Biochemistry) has been a tenured professor at New York University, Rutgers University, and the University of Pittsburgh; division director at the Center for Scientific Review of the National Institutes of Health; and interim vice president for research at Uniformed Services University of the Health Sciences. He has published more than two hundred peer-reviewed scientific papers and five books. Currently, Dr. Garte serves as editor-in-chief of the American Scientific Affiliation's (ASA) online quarterly magazine, God and Nature, and also as vice president for the Washington, DC, metro chapter of the ASA. He also served as a member of the board of advisors of the John Templeton Foundation. Dr. Garte converted to Christianity from an atheist family background, and he is now a certified lay servant in the United Methodist Church in Rockville, Maryland.

Back in 2017 our colleagues at More Perfect gathered a room full of people together to debate a straight forward question: Can free speech go too far? Today, eight years have passed and plenty has changed, but this question feels alive as ever. And so we're re-airing More Perfect's The Hate Debate. Taped live at WNYC's Jerome L. Greene Performance Space, Elie Mystal, Ken White and Corynne McSherry duke it out over whether the first amendment needs an update in our digital world. Special thanks to Elaine Chen, Jennifer Keeney Sendrow, and the entire Greene Space team. Additional engineering for this episode by Chase Culpon, Louis Mitchell, and Alex Overington.EPISODE CITATIONS:Videos -If watching is more your speed, you can see the event, in its entirety, here:https://www.youtube.com/live/azcIcVDyVTM?si=ZqpQHQfvTKr2jS0zThere's other Radiolabs for that -Further recommended listening What Up Holmes and Post No Evil.Signup for our newsletter!! It includes short essays, recommendations, and details about other ways to interact with the show. Sign up (https://radiolab.org/newsletter)!Radiolab is supported by listeners like you. Support Radiolab by becoming a member of The Lab (https://members.radiolab.org/) today.Follow our show on Instagram, Twitter and Facebook @radiolab, and share your thoughts with us by emailing radiolab@wnyc.org.Leadership support for Radiolab's science programming is provided by the Simons Foundation and the John Templeton Foundation. Foundational support for Radiolab was provided by the Alfred P. Sloan Foundation.

This hour of Radiolab, Jad and Robert set out in search of order and balance in the world around us, and ask how symmetry shapes our very existence -- from the origins of the universe, to what we see when we look in the mirror.Along the way, we look for love in ancient Greece, head to modern-day Princeton to peer inside our brains, and turn up an unlikely headline from the Oval Office circa 1979.EPISODE CITATIONS:Videos - Back in the day, when we first aired this episode, the film collective Everynone, filmmakers Will Hoffman, Daniel Mercadante and Julius Metoyer III were inspired with our yearning for balance, and aimed to visually reveal how beautiful imperfect matches can be.Radiolab Presents: Symmetry (https://youtu.be/zEQskIsHKT8)Signup for our newsletter!! It includes short essays, recommendations, and details about other ways to interact with the show. Sign up (https://radiolab.org/newsletter)!Radiolab is supported by listeners like you. Support Radiolab by becoming a member of The Lab (https://members.radiolab.org/) today.Follow our show on Instagram, Twitter/X and Facebook @radiolab, and share your thoughts with us by emailing radiolab@wnyc.org.Leadership support for Radiolab's science programming is provided by the Simons Foundation and the John Templeton Foundation. Foundational support for Radiolab was provided by the Alfred P. Sloan Foundation.

Childhood is a special time, a strange time. Children are adored and catered to—they're given their own menus and bedrooms. They're considered delicate and precious, and so we cushion them from every imaginable risk. Kids are encouraged to play, of course—but very often it's under the watchful eye of anxious adults. This anyway is how childhood looks in much of the United States today. But is this they way childhood looks everywhere? Is this the way human childhoods have always been? My guests today are Dr. Dorsa Amir and Dr. Sheina Lew-Levy. Dorsa is an Assistant Professor of Psychology & Neuroscience at Duke University, where she runs the Mind and Culture Lab. Sheina is an Associate Professor of Psychology at Durham University in the UK, where she co-directs the Forager Child Studies research group. Both Sheina and Dorsa have spent much of their careers thinking about how childhoods differ across cultures—and why. In this conversation, I talk with Dorsa and Sheina about their fieldwork with indigenous groups in Ecuador and the Congo, respectively. We discuss the different ways that childhood differs in these places—for instance, in terms of parents' attitudes toward risk, in terms of the social structures and activities in which kids are embedded, and in terms of the freedom that children are granted. We discuss developmental psychology's "WEIRD problem." We talk about about the quasi-autonomous cultures that children create among themselves—sometimes called "peer cultures"—and discuss how these kid-driven cultures end up shaping and benefit the larger community. Along the way, we touch on adult supremacy, adverse childhood experiences, walking the forest and climbing papaya trees, parenting norms, ding dong ditch and "nananabooboo", the pioneering work of the folklorists Iona and Peter Opie, teaching, toys, and the enduring question of what childhood is for.   Alright friends, lots to think about here. On to my conversation with Sheina Lew-Levy and Dorsa Amir. Enjoy!   A transcript of this episode will be posted soon.   Notes and links 9:30 – For an overview of work on how culture shapes motor development, see here. 11:00 – The paper by Dr. Lew-Levy's and a colleague about “walking the forest.” 16:00 – Dr. Amir's TedX talk, ‘How the Industrial Revolution Changed Childhood.' 17:30 – For some of Dr. Amir's work on risk across cultures, see here. 35:00 – For a recent paper by Dr. Lew-Levy and colleagues about the evolution of childhood, see here. 39:00 – The popular article by Ann Gibbons, ‘The Birth of Childhood.' 41:00 – For the idea of the “patriarch hypothesis,” see here. 42:00 – For more on the “WEIRD problem” in developmental psychology, see here. 48:00 – A paper by Dr. Lew-Levy and colleagues about toys in hunter-gatherer groups. For more on the material culture of childhood, see our earlier episode with Michelle Langley. 52:00 – A recent paper by Dr. Lew-Levy on the prevalence of “child-to-child” teaching. 56:00 – A paper by Dr. Amir and a colleague about the concept of “adverse childhood experiences” in cross-cultural perspective. 1:04:00 – The paper by Dr. Amir and Dr. Lew-Levy on “peer cultures” and children as agents of cultural adaptation. 1:08:00 – For more on the idea of children as the "research and development" wing of the species, see our earlier episode with Alison Gopnik. 1:10:00 – For more on the Opies, see here. 1:13:00 – For the work of (past guest) Olivier Morin on children's culture, see here. 1:23:00 – For the paper by Dr. Camilla Morelli, ‘The River Echoes with Laughter,' see here.   Recommendations The Lore and Language of Children, by Iona and Peter Opie The Gardener and the Carpenter, by Alison Gopnik The Anthropology of Childhood, by David Lancy Intimate Fathers, by Barry Hewlett   Many Minds is a project of the Diverse Intelligences Summer Institute, which is made possible by a generous grant from the John Templeton Foundation to Indiana University. The show is hosted and produced by Kensy Cooperrider, with help from Assistant Producer Urte Laukaityte and with creative support from DISI Directors Erica Cartmill and Jacob Foster. Our artwork is by Ben Oldroyd. Our transcripts are created by Sarah Dopierala. Subscribe to Many Minds on Apple, Stitcher, Spotify, Pocket Casts, Google Play, or wherever you listen to podcasts. You can also now subscribe to the Many Minds newsletter here! We welcome your comments, questions, and suggestions. Feel free to email us at: manymindspodcast@gmail.com.    For updates about the show, visit our website or follow us on Twitter (@ManyMindsPod) or Bluesky (@manymindspod.bsky.social).

Have you heard On the Media's Peabody-winning series The Divided Dial? It's awesome and you should, and now you will. In this episode they tell the story of shortwave radio: the way-less-listened to but way-farther-reaching cousin of AM and FM radio. The medium was once heralded as a utopian, international, and instantaneous mass communication tool — a sort of internet-before-the-internet. But, like the internet, many people quickly saw the power of this new technology and found ways to harness it. State leaders turned it into a propaganda machine, weaponizing the airwaves to try and shape politics around the world. And as shortwave continued to evolve, like the internet, it became fragmented, easily accessible, and right-wing extremists, conspiracy theorists and cult leaders found homes on the different shortwave frequencies. And even today - again, like the internet - people with money are looking to buy up this mass-communication tool in the hopes of … making more money. This is episode one from the second season of The Divided Dial a limited series from On The Media. Listen on Spotify (https://zpr.io/hKCcFEGTLb5a)Listen on Apple Podcasts (https://zpr.io/tQ86YmEmiivR)Listen on the WNYC App (iTunes, Android)Listen to the full Divided Dial series (https://www.onthemedia.org/dial)Follow On The Media on Instagram @onthemedia The Divided Dial was supported in part by a grant from the Fund for Investigative Journalism. On the Media is supported by listeners like you. Support OTM by donating today (https://pledge.wnyc.org/support/otm). Follow our show on Instagram, Twitter and Facebook @onthemedia, and share your thoughts with us by emailing onthemedia@wnyc.org.Signup for our newsletter!! It includes short essays, recommendations, and details about other ways to interact with the show. Sign up (https://radiolab.org/newsletter)!Radiolab is supported by listeners like you. Support Radiolab by becoming a member of The Lab (https://members.radiolab.org/) today.Follow our show on Instagram, Twitter and Facebook @radiolab, and share your thoughts with us by emailing radiolab@wnyc.org.Leadership support for Radiolab's science programming is provided by the Simons Foundation and the John Templeton Foundation. Foundational support for Radiolab was provided by the Alfred P. Sloan Foundation.

Keith Dow, PhD, is a Canadian theologian, researcher, and writer exploring the beauty and complexity of human limits, care, and community. He works with Karis Disability Services (formerly Christian Horizons) and serves as a fellow with the Psychology Cross-Training for Theologians program through the University of Birmingham and Martin Luther University College. His research explores theology, disability, and the ethics of care, emphasizing the beauty and limits of human life in community. Keith is the author of Formed Together: Mystery, Narrative, and Virtue in Christian Caregiving (Baylor, 2021) and leads the Images of God research project supported by the John Templeton Foundation.This session was recorded at Our City Windsor 2025.

Heather is the President and CEO of the John Templeton Foundation, one of the world's largest funders of research at the intersection of science, philosophy, and faith. Over the past decade, she has helped broaden the Foundation's global reach while championing topics such as intellectual humility, the psychology of purpose, and human flourishing. She is also the granddaughter of Sir John Templeton, whose legacy continues to shape the Foundation's mission. Join our growing community of 140,000+ listeners and be notified of new episodes of Templeton Ideas. Subscribe today.  Follow us on social media: Twitter, Facebook, Instagram, LinkedIn and YouTube. 

Jilted lovers and disrupted duck hunts provide a very odd look into the soul of the US Constitution.What does a betrayed lover's revenge have to do with an international chemical weapons treaty? More than you'd think. From poison and duck hunts to our feuding fathers, we step into a very odd tug of war between local and federal law.When Carol Anne Bond found out her husband had impregnated her best friend, she took revenge. Carol's particular flavor of revenge led to a US Supreme Court case that puts into question a part of the US treaty power. Producer Kelsey Padgett drags Jad and Robert into Carol's poisonous web, which starts them on a journey from the birth of the US Constitution, to a duck hunt in 1918, and back to the present day. It's all about an ongoing argument that might actually be the very heart and soul of our system of government.Special thanks toSignup for our newsletter!! It includes short essays, recommendations, and details about other ways to interact with the show. Sign up (https://radiolab.org/newsletter)!Radiolab is supported by listeners like you. Support Radiolab by becoming a member of The Lab (https://members.radiolab.org/) today.Follow our show on Instagram, Twitter and Facebook @radiolab, and share your thoughts with us by emailing radiolab@wnyc.org.Leadership support for Radiolab's science programming is provided by the Simons Foundation and the John Templeton Foundation. Foundational support for Radiolab was provided by the Alfred P. Sloan Foundation.

AI will fundamentally transform science. It will supercharge the research process, making it faster and more efficient and broader in scope. It will make scientists themselves vastly more productive, more objective, maybe more creative. It will make many human participants—and probably some human scientists—obsolete… Or at least these are some of the claims we are hearing these days. There is no question that various AI tools could radically reshape how science is done, and how much science is done. What we stand to gain in all this is pretty clear. What we stand to lose is less obvious, but no less important. My guest today is Dr. Molly Crockett. Molly is a Professor in the Department of Psychology and the University Center for Human Values at Princeton University. In a recent widely-discussed article, Molly and the anthropologist Dr. Lisa Messeri presented a framework for thinking about the different roles that are being imagined for AI in science. And they argue that, when we adopt AI in these ways, we become vulnerable to certain illusions. Here, Molly and I talk about four visions of AI in science that are currently circulating: AI as an Oracle, as a Surrogate, as a Quant, and as an Arbiter. We talk about the very real problems in the scientific process that AI promises to help us solve. We consider the ethics and challenges of using Large Language Models as experimental subjects. We talk about three illusions of understanding the crop up when we uncritically adopt AI into the research pipeline—an illusion that we understand more than we actually do; an illusion that we're covering a larger swath of a research space than we actually are; and the illusion that AI makes our work more objective. We also talk about how ideas from Science and Technology Studies (or STS) can help us make sense of this AI-driven transformation that, like it or no, is already upon us. Along the way Molly and I touch on: AI therapists and AI tutors, anthropomorphism, the culture and ideology of Silicon Valley, Amazon's Mechanical Turk, fMRI, objectivity, quantification, Molly's mid-career crisis, monocultures, and the squishy parts of human experience. Without further ado, on to my conversation with Dr. Molly Crockett. Enjoy!   A transcript of this episode will be posted soon.   Notes and links 5:00 – For more on LLMs—and the question of whether we understand how they work—see our earlier episode with Murray Shanahan. 9:00 – For the paper by Dr. Crockett and colleagues about the social/behavioral sciences and the COVID-19 pandemic, see here.  11:30 – For Dr. Crockett and colleagues' work on outrage on social media, see this recent paper.  18:00 – For a recent exchange on the prospects of using LLMs in scientific peer review, see here. 20:30 – Donna Haraway's essay, 'Situated Knowledges: The Science Question in Feminism and the Privilege of Partial Perspective', is here. See also Dr. Haraway's book, Primate Visions. 22:00 – For the recent essay by Henry Farrell and others on AI as a cultural technology, see here. 23:00 – For a recent report on chatbots driving people to mental health crises, see here. 25:30 – For the already-classic “stochastic parrots” article, see here. 33:00 – For the study by Ryan Carlson and Dr. Crockett on using crowd-workers to study altruism, see here. 34:00 – For more on the “illusion of explanatory depth,” see our episode with Tania Lombrozo. 53:00 – For the more about Ohio State's plans to incorporate AI in the classroom, see here. For a recent essay by Dr. Crockett on the idea of “techno-optimism,” see here.   Recommendations More Everything Forever, by Adam Becker Transformative Experience, by L. A. Paul Epistemic Injustice, by Miranda Fricker   Many Minds is a project of the Diverse Intelligences Summer Institute, which is made possible by a generous grant from the John Templeton Foundation to Indiana University. The show is hosted and produced by Kensy Cooperrider, with help from Assistant Producer Urte Laukaityte and with creative support from DISI Directors Erica Cartmill and Jacob Foster. Our artwork is by Ben Oldroyd. Our transcripts are created by Sarah Dopierala. Subscribe to Many Minds on Apple, Stitcher, Spotify, Pocket Casts, Google Play, or wherever you listen to podcasts. You can also now subscribe to the Many Minds newsletter here! We welcome your comments, questions, and suggestions. Feel free to email us at: manymindspodcast@gmail.com.  For updates about the show, visit our website or follow us on Twitter (@ManyMindsPod) or Bluesky (@manymindspod.bsky.social).

This is episode five of Swimming with Shadows: A Radiolab Week of Sharks.Today, the strange, squirmy magic behind how sharks make more sharks. Drills. Drama. Death. Even a coliseum of baby sharks duking it out inside mom's womb. And a man on a small island in the Mediterranean trying, against all odds, to give baby sharks a chance in a little plastic aquarium in his living room. Can a human raise a shark? And if so, what good is that for sharks? And for us? Doo doo doo doo doo doo.Special thanks to Jaime Penadés Suay and la Fundación Azul Marino.EPISODE CREDITS: Reported by - Rachael CusickProduced by - Rachael Cusickwith mixing help from - Jeremy BloomFact-checking by - Diane Kellyand Edited by  - Pat WaltersEPISODE CITATIONS:Articles - Claudia's original reporting that inspired the episodeSignup for our newsletter!! It includes short essays, recommendations, and details about other ways to interact with the show. Sign up (https://radiolab.org/newsletter)!Radiolab is supported by listeners like you. Support Radiolab by becoming a member of The Lab (https://members.radiolab.org/) today.Follow our show on Instagram, Twitter and Facebook @radiolab, and share your thoughts with us by emailing radiolab@wnyc.org.Leadership support for Radiolab's science programming is provided by the Gordon and Betty Moore Foundation, Science Sandbox, a Simons Foundation Initiative, and the John Templeton Foundation. Foundational support for Radiolab was provided by the Alfred P. Sloan Foundation.

This is episode four of Swimming with Shadows: A Radiolab Week of Sharks.Alison Kock was working at a car wash in Cape Town when she made a discovery that completely changed the course of her life. Inside a customer's trunk, she found photographs of white sharks flying so high above the water they looked like airplanes. She followed those photographs to False Bay, “the Great White Capital of the World.” These sharks, in this place, are the apex of apex predators. Or they were. Until they mysteriously began to disappear.Special thanks to Kathryn Ayres.EPISODE CREDITS: Reported by - Rachael Cusick Produced by - Simon Adler and Maria Paz Gutierrezwith help from - Rebecca Laks Original music from - Simon Adler and Maria Paz GutierrezSound design contributed by - Jeremy Bloomwith mixing help from - Jeremy BloomFact-checking by - Diane A. Kellyand Edited by  - Pat WaltersSignup for our newsletter!! It includes short essays, recommendations, and details about other ways to interact with the show. Sign up (https://radiolab.org/newsletter)!Radiolab is supported by listeners like you. Support Radiolab by becoming a member of The Lab (https://members.radiolab.org/) today.Follow our show on Instagram, Twitter and Facebook @radiolab, and share your thoughts with us by emailing radiolab@wnyc.org.Leadership support for Radiolab's science programming is provided by the Gordon and Betty Moore Foundation, Science Sandbox, a Simons Foundation Initiative, and the John Templeton Foundation. Foundational support for Radiolab was provided by the Alfred P. Sloan Foundation.

This is episode three of Swimming with Shadows: A Radiolab Week of Sharks.Today, we take a trip across the world, from the south coast of Australia to … Wisconsin. Here, scientists are scouring shark blood to find one of nature's hidden keys, a molecular superhero that might unlock our ability to cure cancer: shark antibodies. They're small. They're flexible. And they can fit into nooks and crannies on tumors that our antibodies can't.We journey back 500 million years to the moment sharks got these special powers and head to the underground labs transforming these monsters into healers. Can these animals we fear so much actually save us? Special thanks to Mike Criscitiello, David Schatz, Mary Rose Madden, Ryan Ogilvie, Margot Wohl, Sofi LaLonde, and Isabelle Bérubé.EPISODE CREDITS: Reported by - Becca BresslerProduced by - Becca Bressler and Matt KieltyOriginal music from - Matt Kielty and Jeremy BloomSound design contributed by - Matt Kielty, Jeremy Bloom, and Becca Bresslerwith mixing help from - Jeremy BloomFact-checking by - Diane Kellyand Edited by  - Pat WaltersSignup for our newsletter!! It includes short essays, recommendations, and details about other ways to interact with the show. Sign up (https://radiolab.org/newsletter)!Radiolab is supported by listeners like you. Support Radiolab by becoming a member of The Lab (https://members.radiolab.org/) today.Follow our show on Instagram, Twitter and Facebook @radiolab, and share your thoughts with us by emailing radiolab@wnyc.org.Leadership support for Radiolab's science programming is provided by the Gordon and Betty Moore Foundation, Science Sandbox, a Simons Foundation Initiative, and the John Templeton Foundation. Foundational support for Radiolab was provided by the Alfred P. Sloan Foundation.

This is episode two of Swimming with Shadows: A Radiolab Week of Sharks.Jaws spawned a thousand imitators: sharks in tornados, sharks in avalanches, sharks that battle giant octopuses. Hollywood has officially turned sharks into monsters of every shape and size. And yet, somehow, there will always be more.But drop below the surface, into the cold, quiet blue, and another creature appears. One that has survived mass extinctions, outlasted ancient predators and pre-dates Mount Everest, the existence of trees, even the rings of Saturn. A shark that is somehow even more remarkable than sharks in tornadoes.Today, we go visit that shark. Special thanks to Andrew Fox, the entire team at Rodney Fox Shark Expeditions, John Long whose book The Secret History of Sharks inspired our obsession with sharks, and Greg Skomal, whose wonderful new book on his life studying white sharks is Chasing Shadows: My Life Tracking the Great White Shark.EPISODE CREDITS: Reported by - Rachael Cusickwith help from - Pat WaltersProduced by - Rachael Cusick and Simon Adlerwith help from - Pat WaltersSound design contributed by - Jeremy Bloomwith mixing help from - Jeremy BloomFact-checking by - Natalie Middletonand Edited by  - Pat WaltersEPISODE CITATIONS:Videos - Loved learning about all the different kinds of sharks there are? Check out even more Jaida Elcock's videos on sharks.Book - The Secret History of Sharks by John Long Chasing Shadows: My Life Tracking the Great White Shark by Greg SkomalSignup for our newsletter!! It includes short essays, recommendations, and details about other ways to interact with the show. Sign up (https://radiolab.org/newsletter)!Radiolab is supported by listeners like you. Support Radiolab by becoming a member of The Lab (https://members.radiolab.org/) today.Follow our show on Instagram, Twitter and Facebook @radiolab, and share your thoughts with us by emailing radiolab@wnyc.org.Leadership support for Radiolab's science programming is provided by the Simons Foundation and the John Templeton Foundation. Foundational support for Radiolab was provided by the Alfred P. Sloan Foundation.

Episode one of Swimming with Shadows: A Radiolab Week of Sharks.Rodney Fox went into the ocean one summer day in 1963. He came out barely alive, his body torn apart by a great white shark. At the time, it was one of the worst shark attacks ever survived.After he recovered, he was pulled back into the shadowy world he feared most. Again and again and again. That shark attack left behind a question that still lingers, for Rodney, and for all of us: When you can't see the thing that scares you, what kind of monster does your mind create? And how do you fight past it?Special thanks to Surekha Davies, Asa Mittman, Scott Poole, and Maria Tatar.EPISODE CREDITS:Reported by - Rachael Cusickwith help from - Pat WaltersProduced by - Rachael Cusick and Pat WaltersSound design contributed by - Jeremy Bloomwith mixing help from - Jeremy BloomFact-checking by - Diane Kellyand Edited by  - Pat WaltersSignup for our newsletter!! It includes short essays, recommendations, and details about other ways to interact with the show. Sign up (https://radiolab.org/newsletter)!Radiolab is supported by listeners like you. Support Radiolab by becoming a member of The Lab (https://members.radiolab.org/) today.Follow our show on Instagram, Twitter and Facebook @radiolab, and share your thoughts with us by emailing radiolab@wnyc.org.Leadership support for Radiolab's science programming is provided by the Gordon and Betty Moore Foundation, Science Sandbox, a Simons Foundation Initiative, and the John Templeton Foundation. Foundational support for Radiolab was provided by the Alfred P. Sloan Foundation.

We first aired this episode in 2012, but at the show we've been thinking a lot about resilience and repair so we wanted to play it for you again today. It's about a man who experienced maybe one of the most chilling traumas… twice. But then, it leads us to a story of generational repair. On the morning of August 6th, 1945, Tsutomu Yamaguchi was in Hiroshima on a work trip. He was walking to the office when the first atomic bomb was dropped about a mile away. He survived, and eventually managed to get himself onto a train back to his hometown... Nagasaki. The very next morning, as he tried to convince his boss that a single bomb could destroy a whole city, the second bomb dropped. Author Sam Kean tells Jad and Robert the incredible story of what happened to Tsutomu, explains how gamma rays shred DNA, and helps us understand how Tsutomu sidestepped a thousand year curse.Signup for our newsletter!! It includes short essays, recommendations, and details about other ways to interact with the show. Sign up (https://radiolab.org/newsletter)!Radiolab is supported by listeners like you. Support Radiolab by becoming a member of The Lab (https://members.radiolab.org/) today.Follow our show on Instagram, Twitter and Facebook @radiolab, and share your thoughts with us by emailing radiolab@wnyc.org.Leadership support for Radiolab's science programming is provided by the Simons Foundation and the John Templeton Foundation. Foundational support for Radiolab was provided by the Alfred P. Sloan Foundation.

Puppies wrestling and mock-biting each other. Toddlers playing hide and seek. Kittens pouncing—repeatedly—on a toy mouse. You've no doubt looked on at scenes like this with amusement. And you've no doubt seen some of those viral videos—of ravens sledding down hills, of bumble bees playing with balls. All these moments make us smile, maybe even giggle. But the scientific questions they raise merit serious attention. Where do we see play in the animal kingdom? Where do we not? What functions does play serve? Do we—and many other creatures—have an elemental need for play? My guest today is Dr. Gordon Burghardt. Gordon is a longtime Professor in the Department of Psychology and the Department of Ecology and Evolutionary Biology at the University of Tennessee. For decades now, Gordon has been a pioneer in the study of animal play, with a particular focus on play in reptiles and other animals not usually considered playful. His 2005 book, The Genesis of Animal Play, remains a landmark in the field. Here, Gordon and I talk about the major types of play: locomotor play, object play, and social play. We discuss the five criteria he has proposed for recognizing play across animal taxa. We survey several of the functions of play that have been proposed over the decades, and discuss how—in the end—play doesn't seem to have just one function. We also talk about human play—about what sets it apart, and about the possibility that play lies at the root of many of the capacities and institutions we think of as distinctively, impressively human. Along the way, Gordon and I touch on play in bears, pythons, turtles, fruit flies, and octopuses. We consider play between members of taxonomically distant species. We talk about “self-handicapping”; the surplus resource theory of play; the importance of "risky play" and "free play"; the immersive quality of play; bodily and vocal play signals in mammals; and whether human play is increasingly endangered.  Without further ado, here's my conversation with Dr. Gordon Burghardt. Enjoy!   A transcript of this episode is available here.   Notes and links 3:00 – A news article on the finding of “play-like” behavior in fruit flies. The original study. 4:30 – For recents reviews of play by Dr. Burghardt and colleagues, covering the three major types of play, the five criteria for recognizing play, and many other topics, see here, here, and here. 12:00 – For more on Dr. Burghardt's early research and hand-rearing of black bears, see here. 23:30 – For the recent study on ball play in bumble bees, see here.  26:00 – For an example of studies examining self-handicapping, see this study on belugas.  27:00 – For a video of a bull and goat butting heads, see here. For more on cross-species play, see this recent paper by Dr. Burghardt and a colleague. 31:00 – For more on the “relaxed open mouth expression” and “play face,” see our previous episode on the origins of the smile.  For a recent study about such expressions possibly attested in dolphins, see here. 44:00 – For the book by Johan Huizinga, see here. For some of Dr. Burghardt's ideas about the connections between play and certain aspects of human culture, see here.  54:00 – For research on the value of “risky play,” see work by Dr. Ellen Sandseter. For an article connecting “free play” and children's mental health, see here.   Recommendations Kingdom of Play, by David Toomey   Many Minds is a project of the Diverse Intelligences Summer Institute, which is made possible by a generous grant from the John Templeton Foundation to Indiana University. The show is hosted and produced by Kensy Cooperrider, with help from Assistant Producer Urte Laukaityte and with creative support from DISI Directors Erica Cartmill and Jacob Foster. Our artwork is by Ben Oldroyd. Our transcripts are created by Sarah Dopierala. Subscribe to Many Minds on Apple, Stitcher, Spotify, Pocket Casts, Google Play, or wherever you listen to podcasts. You can also now subscribe to the Many Minds newsletter here! We welcome your comments, questions, and suggestions. Feel free to email us at: manymindspodcast@gmail.com.  For updates about the show, visit our website or follow us on Twitter (@ManyMindsPod) or Bluesky (@manymindspod.bsky.social).

Doctor and special correspondent, Avir Mitra takes Lulu on an epic journey live on stage at a little basement club called Caveat, here in New York. Starting with an ingredient in breastmilk that babies can't digest, a global hunt that takes us from Bangladesh to the Mennonite communities here in the US, we discover an ancient symbiotic relationship that might be on the verge of disappearing.  So sip a vicarious cocktail, settle in, and explore the surprising ways our bodies forge deep, invisible connections that shape our lives.This live show is part of a series we are doing with Avir that we are calling “Viscera.” Each event is conversation that takes the audience on journey into a quirk or question or mystery inside of us, and gives them a visceral experience with the viscera of us. The previous installment of the series, was called “How to Save a Life.”Special thanks to Tim Brown, David Mills, Carlito Lebrilla, Bethany Henrik, Danielle Lemay, Katie Hinde, Jennifer Smilowitz, Angela Zivkovic, Daniela Barile, Mark UnderwoodEPISODE CREDITS:Reported by -Avir Mitrawith help from - Anisa VietzeOriginal music from - Dylan KeefeSound design contributed by - Dylan Keefe, Ivan BarenFact-checking by -Natalie Middleton.Signup for our newsletter!! It includes short essays, recommendations, and details about other ways to interact with the show. Sign up (https://radiolab.org/newsletter)!Radiolab is supported by listeners like you. Support Radiolab by becoming a member of The Lab (https://members.radiolab.org/) today.Follow our show on Instagram, Twitter and Facebook @radiolab, and share your thoughts with us by emailing radiolab@wnyc.org.Leadership support for Radiolab's science programming is provided by the Simons Foundation and the John Templeton Foundation. Foundational support for Radiolab was provided by the Alfred P. Sloan Foundation.

On today's program, ministry leader Sean Feucht is being accused of moral, ethical, and financial failure by former leaders of his various nonprofits. The accusers issued a formal statement this week detailing their accusations and are calling for an independent investigation. And, with the construction of a new school campus, Pastor Doug Wilson's empire continues to grow in Idaho. We'll take a look. Plus, Tim Dalrymple is leaving his role at Christianity Today to take the helm of the John Templeton Foundation. But first, Robert Morris is pushing back on Gateway Church's claims that they didn't know the details of his sexual abuse of Cindy Clemishire. The producer for today's program is Jeff McIntosh. We get database and other technical support from Stephen DuBarry, Rod Pitzer, and Casey Sudduth. Writers who contributed to today's program include Kim Roberts, Yonat Shimron, Jack Jenkins, Tracy Simmons, Bob Smietana, Brittany Smith, and Christina Darnell. Until next time, may God bless you.

What happens when the world sees you as a hero, but you feel lost inside? Abby Wambach, a trailblazer in women's soccer, shares how facing life's challenges after retirement helped her discover truth, healing, and self-love. Summary: Abby Wambach spent years chasing excellence as a world-class athlete, only to find that winning gold didn't bring the inner fulfillment she craved. In this powerful conversation, she reflects on addiction, shame, identity, and the hard-earned lessons of self-love. Her honesty reveals a new kind of strength. One rooted in vulnerability and the courage to be fully seen.This episode was supported by a grant from The John Templeton Foundation on Spreading Love Through The media.How To Do This Practice:  Acknowledge the belief that achievement or perfection will make you feel whole. Notice when success doesn't bring lasting happiness, and let yourself feel that disappointment. Share your struggles honestly, even the ones you're ashamed of. Choose to live openly instead of hiding parts of yourself to fit others' expectations. Ask yourself where your beliefs about worthiness and shame come from. Keep coming back to love and accept yourself, especially the parts you were taught to hide. Scroll down for a transcription of this episode.Today's Guests:ABBY WAMBACH is a two time World Olympic gold medalist, FIFA world champion, and bestselling author. She is a member of the National Soccer Hall of Fame and a six-time winner of the U.S. Soccer Athlete of the Year award.Follow Abby on Instagram here: @abbywambachOrder her book We Can Do Hard Things here: https://treatmedia.com/Listen to Abby's podcast here: https://wecandohardthingspodcast.com/Related The Science of Happiness episodes:  Why Going Offline Might Save Us: https://tinyurl.com/e7rhsakjThe Contagious Power of Compassion: https://tinyurl.com/3x7w2s5sHow Awe Helps You Navigate Life's Challenges: https://tinyurl.com/2466rnm4Related Happiness Breaks:Take a Break With Our Loving-Kindness Meditation: https://tinyurl.com/2kr4fjz5Making Space For You: https://tinyurl.com/yk6nfnfvA Self-Compassion Meditation For Burnout: https://tinyurl.com/485y3b4yMessage us or leave a comment on Instagram @scienceofhappinesspod. E-mail us at happinesspod@berkeley.edu or use the hashtag #happinesspod.Help us share The Science of Happiness! Leave us a 5-star review on Apple Podcasts or share this link with someone who might like the show: https://tinyurl.com/2p9h5aapTranscription: https://tinyurl.com/25p25ctd

If you've heard anything about the study of human personality, you've probably heard about the “big five.” This is a framework that attempts to characterize human personality in terms of five broad factors or dimensions—neuroticism, extraversion, openness, conscientiousness, and agreeableness. The big five framework has been enormously influential, generating heaps and heaps of data, and study after study on the stability of personality, on the factors that shape our personalities, on how our personalities predict success and satisfaction. But is the big five really the best we can do? What does it miss? What does it mask? Where should the science of human personality go next? My guest today is Dr. René Mõttus. René is Professor of Psychology at the University of Edinburgh, and a leading researcher in the scientific study of human personality. He's also one of the hosts of the Personality Psychology Podcast. Here, René and I talk about the history and colossal success of the “big five.” We consider whether personality is ultimately rooted in our biology—and, if so, how. We dwell on each of the five factors and dig into the facets and nuances within them. These are, actually, technical terms in the field for the more granular aspects of personality that sit within each of these broad dimensions. We talk about personality change across the lifespan, and what factors seem to be driving it. We talk about personality and occupation, personality and birth order, personality and gender. Along the way, René and I touch on the Myers-Briggs; an alternative to the Big 5 known as the HEXACO model; the power of explicit questionnaires over experiments; the concept of "personality age"; the social investment theory; honesty, humility, humor, jealousy; life satisfaction; gene-environment correlations; and why evolutionary stories about personality seem to fail. Alright friends, I think you'll like this one. On to my conversation with Dr. René Mõttus. Enjoy!   A transcript of this episode will be posted soon.   Notes and links 5:30 – For a popular discussion of the Myers-Briggs and other personality tests, see here. For a book-length treatment of the history of the Myers-Briggs test, see here. 11:30 – For Dr. Mõttus's preprint on “personality age,” see here. 17:00 – For our episode on animal personality with Dr. Kate Laskowski, see here. 18:00 – For Dr. Daniel Nettle's book on personality, see here. 22:00 – See Dr. Mõttus's blog post on the genetic basis of personality. 25:00 – For our episode with Dr. Eric Turkheimer about IQ, see here. For Dr. Turkheimer's “phenotypic null hypothesis” about personality, see here. 28:00 – For a theoretical paper by Dr. Mõttus and colleagues about “carving personality at its joints” and “big few models”—among many other issues—see here. 31:00 – See here for a classic overview of the “big five.” 38:00 – For an overview of the predictive power of the “big five,” see here. 40:00 – On the topic of “nuances,” see Dr. Mõttus's recent co-authored paper here. 43:00 – For the study by Dr. Mõttus and colleagues of the personality profiles of different occupations, see here. For an online tool that allows you to explore the data, see here. For an online tool that matches your personality with the personality profiles of different occupations, see here. 47:00 – A classic paper on the HEXACO model of personality. 51:00 – An example of a recent effort to map out the “facets” of personality. 1:11:00 – For a study on the possibility of gene-environment correlations in the area of music, see here. For the study by Dr. Mõttus and colleagues on children “becoming less alike” through adolescence, see here. 1:18:00 – For a classic statement of the “five factor theory,” see here. 1:20:00 – The Wikipedia page for the idea of the “gloomy prospect” is here. This is also the name of Dr. Turkheimer's newsletter. 1:22:00 – The latest installment in the longstanding debate about birth order and personality. 1:27:00 – A paper comparing the “five factor” and “social investment” accounts of personality development. 1:33:00 – For a recent paper by Dr. Mõttus and colleagues on personality and gender, see here. 1:38:00 – A research article on the Estonian Biobank.   Recommendations ‘Life Events and Personality Change: A Systematic Review and Meta-Analysis,' by Bühler et al. ‘Personality stability and change: A meta-analysis of longitudinal studies,' by Bleidorn et al. ‘Choosing prediction over explanation in psychology: Lessons from machine learning,' by Yarkoni & Westfall   Many Minds is a project of the Diverse Intelligences Summer Institute, which is made possible by a generous grant from the John Templeton Foundation to Indiana University. The show is hosted and produced by Kensy Cooperrider, with help from Assistant Producer Urte Laukaityte and with creative support from DISI Directors Erica Cartmill and Jacob Foster. Our artwork is by Ben Oldroyd. Our transcripts are created by Sarah Dopierala. Subscribe to Many Minds on Apple, Stitcher, Spotify, Pocket Casts, Google Play, or wherever you listen to podcasts. You can also now subscribe to the Many Minds newsletter here! We welcome your comments, questions, and suggestions. Feel free to email us at: manymindspodcast@gmail.com.  For updates about the show, visit our website or follow us on Twitter (@ManyMindsPod) or Bluesky (@manymindspod.bsky.social).

Today you can convert speech to text with the click of a button. Youtube does it for all our videos. Our phones will do it in real time. It's frictionless. And yet, if it weren't for an unlikely crew of protesters and office workers, it might still be impossible. This week, the story of our attempts to make the spoken visible. The magicians who tried. And the crazy spell that finally did it. Signup for our newsletter!! It includes short essays, recommendations, and details about other ways to interact with the show. Sign up (https://radiolab.org/newsletter)!Radiolab is supported by listeners like you. Support Radiolab by becoming a member of The Lab (https://members.radiolab.org/) today.Follow our show on Instagram, Twitter and Facebook @radiolab, and share your thoughts with us by emailing radiolab@wnyc.org.Leadership support for Radiolab's science programming is provided by the Simons Foundation and the John Templeton Foundation. Foundational support for Radiolab was provided by the Alfred P. Sloan Foundation.

Learn how poetry can help your brain handle stress, process feelings, and spark insight.Summary: This episode of The Science of Happiness is part of our series Using Art As Medicine. We explore poetry, one of the oldest artforms, powers our brains, calms our nervous systems, and reduces anxiety by opening doors into our psyche. Whether you're reading or writing it, elements like rhythm, metaphor and rhyme improve memory, cognition and even self-esteem. This episode is made possible through the generous support of the John Templeton Foundation.How To Do This Practice: Find Your Moment: Notice the time of day when you feel closest to yourself. It might be early morning before the world wakes up, or another quiet pocket of time when your thoughts are unfiltered and your heart is open. Set the Scene: Create an atmosphere that supports you. Play music that matches your mood or inspires imagination. Let it be soft and inviting, not distracting, just enough to signal to your body that this is a sacred moment. Choose Your Tools: Use what feels natural. Journal, laptop, scrap paper, napkin, the format doesn't matter. What matters is that you're ready to begin. Write Without Interruption: Set a timer for 5 to 10 minutes. Let your pen or fingers move freely. Don't stop, don't edit, and don't worry about making sense, just see what comes. Welcome the Unsaid: Allow what's hidden, half-formed, or surprising to emerge.  Let It Be What It Is: When the timer ends, pause. Don't rush to interpret or fix your words. You've just made contact with something real, let that be enough. Scroll down for a transcription of this episode.YRSA DALEY-WARD is an award-winning poet and author. Her debut novel, The Catch, comes out June 3rd. Learn more about Yrsa here: https://yrsadaleyward.squarespace.com/Pre-order her book here: https://tinyurl.com/yanw6bb5DR. SUSAN MAGSAMEN is a Professor of Neurology at John Hopkins, and author of the New York Times bestseller, Your Brain On Art: How the Arts Transform Us. Learn more about Dr. Magsamen  here: https://tinyurl.com/33v8m5mdRead Dr. Magsamen's book here: https://tinyurl.com/426k87f2Related The Science of Happiness episodes:  Using Art As Medicine Series: https://tinyurl.com/k3mneupxHow Art Heals Us: https://tinyurl.com/yc77fkzuHow Awe Helps You Navigate Life's Challenges: https://tinyurl.com/2466rnm4Related Happiness Breaks:How To Awaken Your Creative Energy: https://tinyurl.com/4fknd8evMaking Space For You: https://tinyurl.com/yk6nfnfvA Self-Compassion Meditation For Burnout: https://tinyurl.com/485y3b4yTell us about your experience with poetry. Email us at happinesspod@berkeley.edu or follow on Instagram @HappinessPod.Help us share The Science of Happiness! Leave us a 5-star review on Apple Podcasts and share this link with someone who might like the show: https://tinyurl.com/2p9h5aapTranscription: https://tinyurl.com/y9r9dyzd

Now that we have the ability to see inside the brain without opening anyone's skull, we'll be able to map and define brain activity and peg it to behavior and feelings. Right? Well, maybe not, or maybe not just yet. It seems the workings of our brains are rather too complex and diverse across individuals to really say for certain what a brain scan says about a person. But Nobel prize winner Eric Kandel and researcher Cynthia Fu tell us about groundbreaking work in the field of depression that just may help us toward better diagnosis and treatment.Anything that helps us treat a disease better is welcome. Doctors have been led astray before by misunderstanding a disease and what makes it better. Neurologist Robert Sapolsky tells us about the turn of the last century, when doctors discovered that babies who died inexplicably in their sleep had thymus glands that seemed far too large. Blasting them with radiation shrank them effectively, and so was administered to perfectly healthy children to prevent this sudden infant death syndrome...Leadership support for Radiolab's science programming is provided by the Simons Foundation and the John Templeton Foundation. Foundational support for Radiolab was provided by the Alfred P. Sloan Foundation.

Spring Washam guides us on a gentle visualization to help you tap into the joy, wonder, and possibility that creativity brings.How To Do This Practice:  Settle In: Sit comfortably, close your eyes, and take a few deep breaths to ground yourself in the present moment. Invite Creativity: Silently welcome the creative energy of the universe, setting the intention to open to inspiration and joy. Visualize the Light Channel: Imagine a tube of light running from the base of your spine through the crown of your head, connecting you to the sun, stars, and infinite creative source. Feel the Flow: Picture this light pouring into your body, filling every cell with energy, possibility, and imagination. Focus on the Heart: Shift your attention to your heart center, letting it glow with passion, and affirm: “My heart is the source of my creativity. I trust it.” Anchor and Affirm: Feel your body grounded and open, breathe deeply, and declare: “I am ready. I am creative. I am a vessel of joyful expression.” Scroll down for a transcription of this episode.This episode is made possible through the generous support of the John Templeton Foundation.Today's Happiness Break Guide:Spring Washam, is a meditation teacher based in Oakland, California. She is also the author of the book, The Spirit of Harriet Tubman: Awakening from the Underground. Learn more about Spring and her new book: https://www.springwasham.com/Follow Spring on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/springwasham/Check out Spring's YouTube channel: https://tinyurl.com/22njyd29Related Happiness Break episodes:Sketching Serenity: https://tinyurl.com/mpv3d7eyMaking Space For You: https://tinyurl.com/yk6nfnfvA Meditation to Inspire a Sense of Purpose: https://tinyurl.com/54uuvh7zRelated Science of Happiness episodes:Why Going Offline Might Save Us: https://tinyurl.com/e7rhsakjAre You Following Your Inner Compass: https://tinyurl.com/y2bh8vvjHow Art Heals Us: https://tinyurl.com/yc77fkzuFollow us on Instagram: @ScienceOfHappinessPod We'd love to hear about your experience with this practice! Share your thoughts at happinesspod@berkeley.edu or use the hashtag #happinesspod.Find us on Apple Podcasts: https://tinyurl.com/2p9h5aapHelp us share Happiness Break! Leave a 5-star review and share this link: https://tinyurl.com/2p9h5aapTranscription: https://tinyurl.com/4fknd8ev

Some call it the "psychedelic renaissance." In the last decade or so, interest in psychedelic drugs has surged—and not just among Silicon Valley types and psychiatrists and neuroscientists. It's also surged among a stereotypically soberer crowd: academic philosophers. The reasons are clear. With their varied and sometimes transformative effects, psychedelics raise ethical questions, epistemological questions, metaphysical questions, questions about the nature of experience and the nature of the mind. My guest today is Dr. Chris Letheby. Chris is a philosopher of cognitive science at the University of Western Australia and the author of the 2021 book, Philosophy of Psychedelics. Here, Chris and I talk about the so-called classic psychedelics—LSD, psilocybin, ayahuasca, and others—and how interest in them has gone through three distinct waves. We discuss the effects that these substances seem to have, in particular their capacity to treat certain psychiatric conditions and their tendency to induce "mystical-like" experiences. We consider the idea that psychedelics might serve as agents of moral enhancement. And we dig into the psychological and neural mechanisms by which psychedelics seem to have their diverse—and often salutary—effects. Along the way, we talk about ontological shock, comforting delusions, brain plasticity, unselfing, microdosing, placebo effects and adverse effects, physicalism and idealism, the REBUS model, environmental virtues, plant consciousness, meditation, and much more. Maybe this is obvious but this episode is not just for the seasoned psychonauts out there. Whatever your personal experience with these substances, they offer a distinctive window into the mind—a new way of grappling with big questions. Perhaps this much is also obvious but we're not encouraging or endorsing the use of psychedelics here—just offering a little fuel for your intellectual fires! Alright friends, on to my conversation w/ Dr. Chris Letheby. Enjoy!   A transcript of this episode will be posted soon.   Notes and links 4:00 – For a brief historical overview of research into psychedelics, see this paper. 8:30 – For work by an early trailblazer in the philosophy of psychedelics, see Thomas Metzinger's Being No One. 12:30 – For our earlier episode on the psychology and philosophy of visual illusions, see here.  18:00 – For a history of the concept of “set and setting,” see here. 19:00 – A 2024 review of “adverse events” in classic psychedelics. 26:00 – A blog post on the history of the term “psychedelic.” 27:00 – A recent review and meta-analysis of the use of psychedelic therapy for depressive symptoms. 31:00 – On mystical experience see Walter Stace's classic work, Mysticism and Philosophy. On the measurement of mystical-type experiences, see, e.g., Walter Pahnke's paper here. 36:00 – On the idea of “psychoplastogens,” see here. 39:00 – See our earlier audio essay on placebo effects. 41:00 – For the study using Ritalin as an active placebo, see here.  44:00 – Michael Pollan's book on psychedelics is here. 48:00 – On the idea of “idealism,” see here. 50:30 – For the 2021 study on psychedelics' capacity to alter metaphysical beliefs, see here. 54:00 – For Dr. Letheby and collaborators' paper about the “mysticism wars,” see here. 1:02:00 – For a popular article on the possibility that psychedelics reduce fear of death, see here. 1:03:00 – For Dr. Letheby's paper on psychedelics and the fear of death, see here. 1:11:00 – The phrase “comforting delusion” comes from an article by Michael Pollan. 1:15:00 – For the “REBUS model,” see here. 1:20:00 – On the idea that psychedelics could serve as agents of moral enhancement, see the paper by Brian Earp here. 1:21:00 – For Dr. Letheby's paper on psychedelics and environmental virtues, see here. For his paper on psychedelics and forgiveness, see here. 1:23:00 – On the subfield of “virtue ethics,” see here. On the virtue of “living in place,” see the paper by Nin Kirkham here. 1:28:00 – For the New Yorker article, by Matthew Hutson, on how psychedelics led him to see trees as smart, see here. For the study, led by Sandeep Nayak, on psychedelics leading people to expand their attributions of consciousness, see here. 1:32:00 – For a first paper by Dr. Letheby on the comparison between meditation and psychedelics, see here.   Recommendations Psychedelic Experience, Aidan Lyon Varieties of Psychedelic Experience, Robert Masters & Jean Houston The Antipodes of the Mind, Benny Shanon   Many Minds is a project of the Diverse Intelligences Summer Institute, which is made possible by a generous grant from the John Templeton Foundation to Indiana University. The show is hosted and produced by Kensy Cooperrider, with help from Assistant Producer Urte Laukaityte and with creative support from DISI Directors Erica Cartmill and Jacob Foster. Our artwork is by Ben Oldroyd. Our transcripts are created by Sarah Dopierala.   Subscribe to Many Minds on Apple, Stitcher, Spotify, Pocket Casts, Google Play, or wherever you listen to podcasts. You can also now subscribe to the Many Minds newsletter here! We welcome your comments, questions, and suggestions. Feel free to email us at: manymindspodcast@gmail.com.    For updates about the show, visit our website or follow us on Twitter (@ManyMindsPod) or Bluesky (@manymindspod.bsky.social).

If you're like me, you probably know what it feels like to chase after a never-ending to-do list, trying to squeeze every bit of productivity out of your days, only to end up exhausted and wondering if you're missing something vital. Today's conversation might be exactly what you need. My guest is theologian and author Kelly Kapic. Kelly is a professor at Covenant College and the author of the deeply encouraging books You're Only Human and the brand-new 40-day devotional, You Were Never Meant to Do It All. Kelly reminds us today that our limitations aren't problems to overcome, they're actually a part of God's good design for us. He gently challenges our obsession with productivity, individualism, and endless hustle, calling us instead into rhythms of rest, dependence, and real community. In this episode, Kelly and I explore what it means to truly embrace our human limits as a gift rather than a burden. We talk about sleep and Sabbath as practices that help us reconnect to God's gracious pace, how genuine community keeps us honest about our needs, and how gratitude and lament can help us live fully human lives, rich with meaning. If you're tired of feeling like you're never quite enough, this conversation is for you. So slow down, take a deep breath, and join us as Kelly Kapic guides us into the beauty of being joyfully and authentically human.Kelly M. Kapic (PhD, King's College, University of London) is professor of theological studies at Covenant College in Lookout Mountain, Georgia, where he has taught since 2001. He is a popular speaker and the award-winning author or editor of more than fifteen books, including the devotional You Were Never Meant to Do It All, The God Who Gives, and the Christianity Today Book Award winners You're Only Human and Embodied Hope: A Theological Meditation on Pain and Suffering. Kapic has been featured in Christianity Today and The Gospel Coalition and has worked on research teams funded by the John Templeton Foundation. He also contributes to the Journal of Spiritual Formation and Soul Care and various other journals.Kelly's Books:You Were Never Meant to Do It AllYou're Only HumanKelly's Recommendation:WorshipSubscribe to Our Substack: Shifting CultureConnect with Joshua: jjohnson@allnations.usGo to www.shiftingculturepodcast.com to interact and donate. Every donation helps to produce more podcasts for you to enjoy.Follow on Facebook, Instagram, Twitter, Threads, Bluesky or YouTubeConsider Giving to the podcast and to the ministry that my wife and I do around the world. Just click on the support the show link below Support the show

What happens when a voice emerges? What happens when one is lost? Is something gained? A couple months ago, Lulu guest edited an issue of the nature magazine Orion. She called the issue “Queer Planet: A Celebration of Biodiversity,” and it was a wide-ranging celebration of queerness in nature. It featured work by amazing writers like Ocean Vuong, Kristen Arnett, Carmen Maria Machado and adrienne maree brown, among many others. But one piece in particular struck Lulu as something that was really meant to be made into audio, an essay called “Key Changes,” by the writer Sabrina Imbler. If their name sounds familiar, it might be because they've been on the show before. In this episode, we bring you Sabrina's essay – which takes us from the beginning of time, to a field of crickets, to a karaoke bar – read by the phenomenal actor Becca Blackwell, and scored by our director of sound design Dylan Keefe. Stay to the end for a special surprise … from Amy Ray of the Indigo Girls!Special thanks to Jay Gallagher from UC Davis.EPISODE CREDITS: Reported by - Sabrina ImblerProduced by - Annie McEwen and Pat Walterswith help from - Maria Paz GutiérrezOriginal music from - Dylan KeefeFact-checking by - Kim Schmidtand Edited by  - Tajja Isen and Pat WaltersEPISODE CITATIONS:Articles - Check out Queer Planet: A Celebration of Biodiversity, Orion Magazine (Spring 2025)Read Sabrina Imbler's original essay, “Key Changes,” Orion Magazine (Spring 2025)Read Lulu Miller's mini-essay, “Astonishing Immobility,” Orion Magazine (Spring 2025)Check out Sabrina Imbler's Defector column Creaturefector all about animalsAudio - Listen to Amy Ray's song “Chuck Will's Widow” from her solo album If It All Goes SouthBooks - How Far the Light Reaches: A Life in Ten Sea Creatures, by Sabrina ImblerSignup for our newsletter!! It includes short essays, recommendations, and details about other ways to interact with the show. Sign up (https://radiolab.org/newsletter)!Radiolab is supported by listeners like you. Support Radiolab by becoming a member of The Lab (https://members.radiolab.org/) today.Follow our show on Instagram, Twitter and Facebook @radiolab, and share your thoughts with us by emailing radiolab@wnyc.org.Leadership support for Radiolab's science programming is provided by the Simons Foundation and the John Templeton Foundation. Foundational support for Radiolab was provided by the Alfred P. Sloan Foundation.

We explore how making art can ground us in the present and be a space of healing, connection, and joy.Summary: We explore how creative expression can support emotional resilience and physical healing in the face of life's hardest moments and how simple acts of art-making— whether painting, drawing, or doodling—can offer grounding, release, and joy.This episode is made possible through the generous support of the John Templeton Foundation.Scroll down for a transcription of this episode.Guests:SHABNAM PIRYAEI is an award-winning writer, filmmaker, and teacher.Learn more about Shabnam here: https://shabnampiryaei.com/Follow Shabnam on Instagram here: @shabnampiryaei DR. GIRIJA KAIMAL is a leading researcher in art therapy who has studied how creative expression supports people.Learn more about Dr. Kaimal here: https://girijakaimal.com/Related The Science of Happiness episodes:  Why Grownups Should Be Playful Too: https://tinyurl.com/4r85dc7mWhy Going Offline Might Save Us: https://tinyurl.com/e7rhsakjHow Awe Helps You Navigate Life's Challenges: https://tinyurl.com/2466rnm4Related Happiness Breaks:Sketching Serenity: https://tinyurl.com/mpv3d7eyMaking Space For You: https://tinyurl.com/yk6nfnfvA Self-Compassion Meditation For Burnout: https://tinyurl.com/485y3b4yTell us about your experience creating art. Email us at happinesspod@berkeley.edu or follow on Instagram @HappinessPod.Help us share The Science of Happiness! Leave us a 5-star review on Apple Podcasts and share this link with someone who might like the show: https://tinyurl.com/2p9h5aapTranscription:

Today we bring you a story stranger than fiction. In 2006, paleobiologist Natalia Rybczynski took a helicopter to a remote Arctic island near the North Pole, spending her afternoons scavenging for ancient treasures on the ground. One day, she found something the size of a potato chip. Turns out, it was a three and half million year old chunk of bone. Keep reading if you're okay with us spoiling the surprise.It's a camel! Yes, the one we thought only hung out in deserts. Originally from North America, the camel trotted around the globe and went from snow monster to desert superstar. We go on an evolutionary tour of the camel's body and learn how the same adaptations that help a camel in a desert also helped it in the snow. Plus, Lulu even meets one in the flesh. Special thanks to Latif Nasser for telling us this story. It was originally a TED Talk where he brought out a live camel on stage. Thank you also to Carly Mensch, Juliet Blake, Anna Bechtol, Stone Dow, Natalia Rybczynski and our camel man, Shayne Rigden. If you are in Wisconsin, you can go meet his camels at Rigden Ranch. And follow his delightful TikTok @rigdenranch to see camels in the snow!  Terrestrials was created by Lulu Miller with WNYC Studios. This episode was produced by Ana González, Alan Goffinski, Mira Burt-Wintonick, Joe Plourde, Lulu Miller, and Sarah Sandbach, with help from Tanya Chawla and Natalia Ramirez. Fact checking by Anna Pujol-Mazzini. Our advisors this season are Ana Luz Porzecanski, Anil Lewis, Dominique Shabazz, and Liza Demby.Support for Terrestrials also comes from the Simons Foundation, the Arthur Vining Davis Foundations, and the John Templeton Foundation.Signup for our newsletter!! It includes short essays, recommendations, and details about other ways to interact with the show. Sign up (https://radiolab.org/newsletter)!Radiolab is supported by listeners like you. Support Radiolab by becoming a member of The Lab (https://members.radiolab.org/) today.Follow our show on Instagram, Twitter and Facebook @radiolab, and share your thoughts with us by emailing radiolab@wnyc.org.Leadership support for Radiolab's science programming is provided by the Simons Foundation and the John Templeton Foundation. Foundational support for Radiolab was provided by the Alfred P. Sloan Foundation.

How can science speak to our deepest spiritual yearnings? In this captivating panel discussion held at NeueHouse Manhattan, five prominent scientists and thinkers explore how different ways of knowing—from physics to medicine, from spirituality to ethics—can build meaningful bridges between worlds often seen as separate.The panelists are:Dr. Alan Lightman (physicist and Professor of the Practice of the humanities at MIT, and author of numerous books including most recently, the The Miraculous from the Material) - he was a guest on Season 3Dr. Neil Theise (professor of pathology at the NYU Grossman School of Medicine, pioneer of adult stem stell plasticity and the interstitium, and author of "Notes on Complexity: A Scientific Theory of Connection, Consciousness, and Being,”)Dr. Scarlet Soriano, Executive Director at Duke Health & Well-Being, whose work focuses on the development of equity-based and community-grounded health and well-being interventions;and Dr. Katy Hinman is the Director of Dialogue on Science, Ethics and Religion (DoSER) program at the American Academy for the Advancement of Science (AAAS),The panel was moderated by Dr. Robert Lawrence Kuhn, who is the creator, writer, host and executive producer of Closer To Truth, the long-running public television series and leading global resource on Cosmos, Life, Mind, and Meaning.Together, they discuss: Can spirituality coexist with scientific rationality? How do love, consciousness, and our connection to the universe shape our understanding of life's purpose?This event, sponsored by The John Templeton Foundation and produced by Rohan Routroy and Thirty Eight, explores and debates diverse approaches to consciousness and spirituality in an age of science.Watch the video on YouTube: https://youtu.be/iaUV4QWbZcI#ScienceAndSpirituality #ScienceAndReligion #MeaningOfLife #CloserToTruth #Consciousness #AlanLightman #NeilTheiseSupport the show

We humans have a hard time becoming invisible. For better or worse, we're basically stuck with the skin and body we have; we're pretty fixed in our color, our shape, our overall appearance. And so we're fascinated by creatures that aren't—creatures that morph to meet the moment, that can functionally disappear, that can shape-shift on a dime. And no creatures are more skilled, more astonishing, more bedazzling in their abilities to do this kind of thing than the cephalopods. But how do they do this exactly? What's going on in their skin? What's going on under their skin? And what's going on in their brains that makes this all possible? My guest today is Dr. Tessa Montague. Tessa is a neuroscientist in the Axel Lab at Columbia University; she studies the brain and behavior of the dwarf cuttlefish, with a special focus on the biology of their dynamic skin behaviors. Here, Tessa and I talk about how cuttlefish and other cephalopods exhibit the most impressive camouflaging abilities on the planet. We discuss how they change their skin's appearance with remarkable speed and fidelity—and not just when trying to blend in, but also when hunting, courting, fighting, and more. We talk about whether these behaviors are flexible and whether they're voluntary. We linger on the cruel irony that cuttlefish seem to be colorblind. We talk about the idea that a cephalopod's skin is kind of a window into their brain. We lay out the cells and organs in the cephalopod skin the make these behaviors possible—especially the tiny pigment-bearing structures called "chromatophores." And of course we also dive deep into the cephalopod brain and the its sometimes bizarre and poorly understood structures. Excited to share it with you friends—I think you'll enjoy it. Without further ado, here's my chat with Dr. Tessa Montague.   A transcript of this episode will be posted soon.   Notes and links 3:00 – For more on Dr. Montague's recent expeditions to the Philippines, including photos, see here. 7:30 – Dr. Montague has published two recent reviews of dynamic skin behaviors in cephalopods—see here and here. We previously discussed cephalopod intelligence in a 2021 episode with Dr. Alex Schnell and a 2023 episode with the novelist Ray Nayler. 18:30 – For discussion of a recent “renaissance” in new model organisms, see here. 20:30 – For more on how chameleons change color, see this video. 25:00 – A video primer on cuttlefish camouflage, featuring the researcher Dr. Robert Hanlon. 30:30 – A recent paper on the details of pattern matching in cuttlefish camouflage. 31:00 – For more on the mimicking plant Boquila trifoliata, see this popular article. See also our earlier episode with Dr. Paco Calvo and Natalie Lawrence. 35:00 – A video about the so-called mimic octopus.  40:00 – For the hypothesis about color discrimination via chromatic aberration and pupil shape, see here. 44:00 – For more on the “split body” skin behaviors observed in some cuttlefish, see here. 51:00 – For the David Attenborough clip about a cuttlefish hypnotizing a crab, see here. For the recent New York Times article on cuttlefish hunting behavior, including videos, see here. For the academic article the inspired the New York Times piece, see here. 58:00 – A recent scientific study on the possibility of octopus skin activity during dreaming. A video that helped popularize the idea of cephalopod skin activity as evidence of dreaming.  1:06:00 – For study on chromatophore development from the lab of Dr. Gilles Laurent, see here. 1:11:00 – For more on papillae, including videos, see here.  1:17:00 – To explore an animated model of the cuttlefish brain, see this page of Dr. Montague's website, Cuttlebase.   Recommendations Monarchs of the Sea, Danna Staaf Other Minds, Peter Godfrey-Smith Cephalopod Behavior, Robert Hanlon & John B. Messenger   Many Minds is a project of the Diverse Intelligences Summer Institute, which is made possible by a generous grant from the John Templeton Foundation to Indiana University. The show is hosted and produced by Kensy Cooperrider, with help from Assistant Producer Urte Laukaityte and with creative support from DISI Directors Erica Cartmill and Jacob Foster. Our artwork is by Ben Oldroyd. Our transcripts are created by Sarah Dopierala. Subscribe to Many Minds on Apple, Stitcher, Spotify, Pocket Casts, Google Play, or wherever you listen to podcasts. You can also now subscribe to the Many Minds newsletter here! We welcome your comments, questions, and suggestions. Feel free to email us at: manymindspodcast@gmail.com.    For updates about the show, visit our website or follow us on Twitter (@ManyMindsPod) or Bluesky (@manymindspod.bsky.social).

For years, scientists thought nothing could live above 73℃/163℉.  At that temperature, everything boiled to death. But scientists Tom Brock and Hudson Freeze weren't convinced. What began as their simple quest to trawl for life in some of the hottest natural springs on Earth would, decades later, change the trajectory of biological science forever, saving millions of lives—possibly even yours.This seismic, totally unpredictable discovery, was funded by the U.S. government. This week, as the Trump administration slashes scientific research budgets en masse, we tell one story, a parable about the unforeseeable miracles that basic research can yield. After that, a familiar voice raises some essential questions: what are we risking with these cuts? And can we recover?Special thanks to Joanne Padrón Carney, Erin Heath, Valeria Sabate, Gwendolyn Bogard, Meredith Asbury and Megan Cantwell at AAAS. Thank you as well to Gregor Čavlović and Derek Muller and the rest of the Veritasium team.EPISODE CREDITS: Reported by - Latif Nasserwith help from - Maria Paz GutiérrezProduced by - Sarah Qari and Maria Paz GutiérrezOriginal music and sound design and mixing from - Jeremy BloomFact-checking by - Emily Kreigerand Edited by  - Alex Neason with help from Sarah QariEPISODE CITATIONS:Videos - Latif also helped make a version of this story with the YouTube channel Veritasium. Articles - Hudson Freeze NYT OPED: Undercutting the Progress of American ScienceBooks -Thomas Brock, A Scientist in Yellowstone National ParkPaul Rabinow's Making PCR: A Story of BiotechnologyPodcasts Episodes:If you haven't heard, listen to our first episode about the Golden Goose awards. Signup for our newsletter!! It includes short essays, recommendations, and details about other ways to interact with the show. Sign up (https://radiolab.org/newsletter)!Radiolab is supported by listeners like you. Support Radiolab by becoming a member of The Lab (https://members.radiolab.org/) today.Follow our show on Instagram, Twitter and Facebook @radiolab, and share your thoughts with us by emailing radiolab@wnyc.org.Leadership support for Radiolab's science programming is provided by the Gordon and Betty Moore Foundation, Science Sandbox, a Simons Foundation Initiative, and the John Templeton Foundation. Foundational support for Radiolab was provided by the Alfred P. Sloan Foundation.

In honor of our Earth, on her day, we have two stories about the overlooked, ignored, and neglected parts of nature. In the first half, we learn about an epic battle that is raging across the globe every day, every moment. It's happening in the ocean, and your very life depends on it. In the second half, we make an earnest, possibly foolhardy, attempt to figure out the dollar value of the work of bats and bees as we try to keep our careful calculations from falling apart in the face of the realities of life, and love, and loss.Sign up for our newsletter!! It includes short essays, recommendations, and details about other ways to interact with the show. Sign up (https://radiolab.org/newsletter)!Radiolab is supported by listeners like you. Support Radiolab by becoming a member of The Lab (https://members.radiolab.org/) today.Follow our show on Instagram, Twitter and Facebook @radiolab, and share your thoughts with us by emailing radiolab@wnyc.org.Leadership support for Radiolab's science programming is provided by the Gordon and Betty Moore Foundation, Science Sandbox, a Simons Foundation Initiative, and the John Templeton Foundation. Foundational support for Radiolab was provided by the Alfred P. Sloan Foundation.

You've probably come across the "free energy principle." It's become one of the most influential ideas in the broader cognitive sciences. Since the neuroscientist Karl Friston first introduced it in 2005, the theory has been fleshed out, extended, generalized, criticized, and cited thousands and thousands of times. But what is this idea, exactly? What does it say about the nature of brains and minds? What does it say about the phenomenon of life itself? And is anything that it says really that new? My guest today is Dr. Kate Nave. Kate is a philosopher at the University of Edinburgh and the author of the new book, A Drive to Survive: The Free Energy Principle and the Meaning of Life. In the book, Kate offers an extended critical analysis of the free energy principle and situates it in a broader landscape of ideas about the nature of life and mind. In this conversation, Kate and I talk about how the free energy principle has changed over time, from its beginnings as a theory of cortical responses in the brain to its eventual status as a theory of... well, a lot. We discuss why this theory has had such an enormous influence, and we talk about how many of the key ideas behind it actually have a long history. We consider some kindred spirits of the free energy framework— approaches like cybernetics, enactivism, predictive processing, and autopoiesis. We walk through a series of questions that all these approaches have long grappled with. Questions like: What does it mean to be alive? What is the relationship between being alive and being cognitive? What are the roles of prediction and representation in cognition? And we ask how—if it all—the free energy principle gives us new answers to these old questions. Along the way, Kate and I touch on: surprisal, visual phenomenology, vitalism, Husserl and Merleau-Ponty, Maturana and Varela, pendulums and bacteria, computation and models, primordial purposiveness, pancakes, and whether we'll ever be able to create artificial life. As you might be able to tell from the description I just gave, this conversation goes pretty deep—and it does get a bit technical. It dives down into the history and philosophy around some of the most foundational questions we can ask about minds. If that sounds like your cup of tea, enjoy. Alright friends, on to my conversation with Dr. Kate Nave!   A transcript of this episode will be posted soon.   Notes and links 5:00 – The 2005 paper in which Karl Friston proposed the principle of free energy minimization. Friston later generalized the ideas here and here. 14:00 – For influential philosophical work on action in perception, see Alva Nöe's book, Action in Perception. 17:00 – One of the classic works in the “enactivist” tradition is Evan Thompson's book, Mind in Life. 18:00 – The actual quip, credited to Carl Sagan, is about “apple pie” not pancakes: “If you wish to make an apple pie from scratch, you must first invent the universe.” 20:00 – The notion of “autopoiesis” (or “self-creation”) was introduced by Humberto Maturana and Francisco Varela in their book, Autopoiesis and Cognition. 24:00 – A classic paper of cybernetics from 1943, ‘Behavior, purpose, and teleology.' 37:00 – For more on the idea of “predictive processing,” see our earlier episode with Dr. Mark Miller. 43:00 – For a discussion of the idea of “representation” in the philosophy of cognitive science, see here. For a discussion of “anti-representationalism,” see here.   Recommendations ‘Organisms, Machines, and Thunderstorms: A History of Self-Organization,' (part 1) (part 2), Evelyn Fox Keller The Mechanization of the Mind, Jean-Pierre Dupuy ‘The Reflex Machine and the Cybernetic Brain,' Mazvita Chirimuuta   Many Minds is a project of the Diverse Intelligences Summer Institute, which is made possible by a generous grant from the John Templeton Foundation to Indiana University. The show is hosted and produced by Kensy Cooperrider, with help from Assistant Producer Urte Laukaityte and with creative support from DISI Directors Erica Cartmill and Jacob Foster. Our artwork is by Ben Oldroyd. Our transcripts are created by Sarah Dopierala. Subscribe to Many Minds on Apple, Stitcher, Spotify, Pocket Casts, Google Play, or wherever you listen to podcasts. You can also now subscribe to the Many Minds newsletter here! We welcome your comments, questions, and suggestions. Feel free to email us at: manymindspodcast@gmail.com.    For updates about the show, visit our website or follow us on Twitter (@ManyMindsPod) or Bluesky (@manymindspod.bsky.social).

A couple years ago, an entomologist named Martha Weiss got a letter from a little boy in Japan saying he wanted to replicate a famous study of hers. We covered that original study on Radiolab more than a decade ago in an episode called Goo and You – check it out here – and in addition to revealing some fascinating secrets of insect life, it also raises big questions about memory, permanence and transformation. The letter Martha received about building on this study set in motion a series of spectacular events that advance her original science and show how science works when a 12-year-old boy is the one doing it. Martha's daughter, reporter Annie Rosenthal, captured all of it and turned it into a beautiful audio story called “Caterpillar Roadshow.” It was originally published in a brand new independent audio magazine called Signal Hill, which happens to have been created in part by two former Radiolab interns (Liza Yeager and Jackson Roach, both of whom worked on this piece), and we loved it, so we're presenting an excerpt for you here.Special thanks to Annie Rosenthal, Liza Yeager, Jackson Roach, Leo Wong, Omar Etman, the whole team at Signal Hill, Carlos Morales, John Lill, Marfa Public Radio and Emma Garschagen.EPISODE CREDITS: Reported by - Annie RosenthalProduced by - Annie Rosenthalwith help from - Leo Wong and Omar EtmanSound design contributed by - Liza Yeager and Jackson RoachFact-checking by - Alan Deanand Edited by  - Liza Yeager and Jackson RoachEPISODE CITATIONS:Audio -  Listen to the original Radiolab episode, Goo and You, here (https://zpr.io/qh9xqpkXzk7j).Or the Signal Hill podcast here (https://zpr.io/CDfwyK7Zkrva).Guests - And if you want to learn more about Martha Weiss, and her work, head over here (https://zpr.io/aBw2YsqWB6NZ).Signup for our newsletter!! It includes short essays, recommendations, and details about other ways to interact with the show. Sign up (https://radiolab.org/newsletter)!Radiolab is supported by listeners like you. Support Radiolab by becoming a member of The Lab (https://members.radiolab.org/) today.Follow our show on Instagram, Twitter and Facebook @radiolab, and share your thoughts with us by emailing radiolab@wnyc.org.Leadership support for Radiolab's science programming is provided by the Gordon and Betty Moore Foundation, Science Sandbox, a Simons Foundation Initiative, and the John Templeton Foundation. Foundational support for Radiolab was provided by the Alfred P. Sloan Foundation.

In an episode first aired in 2012, Lulu Miller introduces us to Jeff Lockwood, a professor at the University of Wyoming, who spent a part of his career studying a particularly ferocious set of insects: Gryllacrididae. Or, as Jeff describes them, "crickets on steroids." They have crushingly strong, serrated jaws, and they launch all-out attacks on anyone who gets in their way--whether it's another cricket, or the guy trying to take them out of their cages.In order to work with the gryllacridids, Jeff had to figure out how to out-maneuver them. And as he devised ways to keep from getting slashed and bitten, he felt like he was getting to know them. Maybe they weren't just mindless brutes ... but their own creatures, each with their own sense of self. And that got him wondering: what could their fierceness tell him about the nature of violence? How well could he understand the minds of these insects, and what drove them to be so bloody?That's when the alarm bells went off. Jeff would picture his mentor, Dr. LaFage, lecturing him back in college--warning him not to slip into a muddled, empathic mood ... not to let his emotions sideswipe his objectivity. And that would usually do the trick--Jeff would think of LaFage, and rein himself back in.But then one night, something happened that gave Dr. LaFage's advice a terrible new kind of significance. Tamra Carboni tells us this part of the story, and challenges Jeff's belief that there's a way to understand it.Sign up for our newsletter!! It includes short essays, recommendations, and details about other ways to interact with the show. Sign up (https://radiolab.org/newsletter)!Radiolab is supported by listeners like you. Support Radiolab by becoming a member of The Lab (https://members.radiolab.org/) today.Follow our show on Instagram, Twitter and Facebook @radiolab, and share your thoughts with us by emailing radiolab@wnyc.org.Leadership support for Radiolab's science programming is provided by the Gordon and Betty Moore Foundation, Science Sandbox, a Simons Foundation Initiative, and the John Templeton Foundation. Foundational support for Radiolab was provided by the Alfred P. Sloan Foundation.

Earth can sustain life for another 100 million years, but can we?In this episode, we partnered with the team at Planet Money to take stock of the essential raw materials that enable us to live as we do here on Earth—everything from sand to copper to oil— and tally up how much we have left. Are we living with reckless abandon? And if so, is there even a way to stop? This week, we bring you a conversation that's equal parts terrifying and fascinating, featuring bird poop, daredevil drivers, and some staggering back-of-the-envelope math.EPISODE CREDITS:Reported by - Jeff Guo and Latif NasserProduced by - Pat Walters and Soren Wheelerwith production help from - Sindhu Gnanasambandan and editing help from  - Alex Goldmark and Jess JiangFact-checking by - Natalie Middleton  Signup for our newsletter!! It includes short essays, recommendations, and details about other ways to interact with the show. Sign up (https://radiolab.org/newsletter)!Radiolab is supported by listeners like you. Support Radiolab by becoming a member of The Lab (https://members.radiolab.org/) today.Follow our show on Instagram, Twitter and Facebook @radiolab, and share your thoughts with us by emailing radiolab@wnyc.org.Leadership support for Radiolab's science programming is provided by the Gordon and Betty Moore Foundation, Science Sandbox, a Simons Foundation Initiative, and the John Templeton Foundation. Foundational support for Radiolab was provided by the Alfred P. Sloan Foundation.

We all think we know the story of pregnancy. Sperm meets egg, followed by nine months of nurturing, nesting, and quiet incubation. this story isn't the nursery rhyme we think it is. In a way, it's a struggle, almost like a tiny war. And right on the front lines of that battle is another major player on the stage of pregnancy that not a single person on the planet would be here without. An entirely new organ: the placenta.In this episode, which we originally released in 2021, we take you on a journey through the 270-day life of this weird, squishy, gelatinous orb, and discover that it is so much more than an organ. It's a foreign invader. A piece of meat. A friend and parent. And it's perhaps the most essential piece in the survival of our kind.This episode was reported by Heather Radke and Becca Bressler, and produced by Becca Bressler and Pat Walters, with help from Matt Kielty and Maria Paz Gutierrez. Additional reporting by Molly Webster.Special thanks to Diana Bianchi, Julia Katz, Sam Behjati, Celia Bardwell-Jones, Mathilde Cohen, Hannah Ingraham, Pip Lipkin, and Molly Fassler.EPISODE CREDITS: Reported by - Heather Radke and Becca Bresslerwith help from - Molly WebsterProduced by - Becca Bresslerwith help from - Pat Walters, Maria Paz GutierrezEPISODE CITATIONS:Articles:Check out Harvey's latest paper published with Julia Katz.Sam Behjati's latest paper on the placenta as a "genetic dumping ground". Signup for our newsletter!! It includes short essays, recommendations, and details about other ways to interact with the show. Sign up (https://radiolab.org/newsletter)!Radiolab is supported by listeners like you. Support Radiolab by becoming a member of The Lab (https://members.radiolab.org/) today.Follow our show on Instagram, Twitter and Facebook @radiolab, and share your thoughts with us by emailing radiolab@wnyc.org.Leadership support for Radiolab's science programming is provided by the Gordon and Betty Moore Foundation, Science Sandbox, a Simons Foundation Initiative, and the John Templeton Foundation. Foundational support for Radiolab was provided by the Alfred P. Sloan Foundation.

It's easy to take growth for granted, for it to seem expected, inevitable even. Every person starts out as a baby and grows up. Plants grow from seeds into food. The economy grows. That stack of mail on your table grows. But why does anything grow the way that it does? In this hour, we go from the Alaska State Fair, to a kitchen in Brooklyn, to the deep sea, to ancient India, to South Korea, and lots of places in between, to investigate this question, and uncover the many forces that drive growth, sometimes wondrous, sometimes terrifying, and sometimes surprisingly, unnervingly fragile.Special thanks to Elie Tanaka, Keith Devlin, Deven Patel, Chris Gole, James Raymo and Jessica SavageEPISODE CREDITS: Reported by - Matt Kielty, Becca Bressler, Pat Walters, Sindhu Gnanasambandun, Annie McEwen, Simon Adlerwith help from - Rae MondoProduced by - Matt Kielty, Becca Bressler, Pat Walters, Sindhu Gnanasambandun, Annie McEwen, Simon AdlerSound design contributed by - Jeremy Bloomwith mixing help from - Jeremy BloomFact-checking by - Emily Krieger and Natalie Middletonand Edited by  - Pat WaltersEPISODE CITATIONS:Audio:“The Joy of Why,” (https://www.quantamagazine.org/tag/the-joy-of-why/) Steve Strogatz's podcast. Articles:“The End of Children,”(https://zpr.io/WBdg6bi8xwnr) The New Yorker, by Gideon Lewis-KrausBooks:Finding Fibonacci (https://zpr.io/3EjviAttUFke) by Keith DevlinDo Plants Know Math (https://zpr.io/bfbTZDJ8ehx5) by Chris GoleSingup for our newsletter!! It includes short essays, recommendations, and details about other ways to interact with the show. Sign up (https://radiolab.org/newsletter)!Radiolab is supported by listeners like you. Support Radiolab by becoming a member of The Lab (https://members.radiolab.org/) today.Follow our show on Instagram, Twitter and Facebook @radiolab, and share your thoughts with us by emailing radiolab@wnyc.org.Leadership support for Radiolab's science programming is provided by the Gordon and Betty Moore Foundation, Science Sandbox, a Simons Foundation Initiative, and the John Templeton Foundation. Foundational support for Radiolab was provided by the Alfred P. Sloan Foundation.

In 2017 our sister show, More Perfect aired an episode all about RBG, In September of 2020, we lost Supreme Court Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg to the annals of history. She was 87. Given the atmosphere around reproductive rights, gender and law, we decided to re-air this More Perfect episode dedicated to one of her cases. Because it offers a unique portrait of how one person can make change in the world. This is the story of how Ginsburg, as a young lawyer at the ACLU, convinced an all-male Supreme Court to take discrimination against women seriously - using a case on discrimination against men. Special thanks to Stephen Wiesenfeld, Alison Keith, and Bob Darcy.Supreme Court archival audio comes from Oyez®, a free law project in collaboration with the Legal Information Institute at Cornell.EPISODE CREDITS: Reported by - Julia LongoriaProduced by - Julia LongoriaOriginal music and sound design contributed by - Alex OveringtonOur newsletter comes out every Wednesday. It includes short essays, recommendations, and details about other ways to interact with the show. Sign up (https://radiolab.org/newsletter)!Radiolab is supported by listeners like you. Support Radiolab by becoming a member of The Lab (https://members.radiolab.org/) today.Follow our show on Instagram, Twitter and Facebook @radiolab, and share your thoughts with us by emailing radiolab@wnyc.org.Leadership support for Radiolab's science programming is provided by the Gordon and Betty Moore Foundation, Science Sandbox, a Simons Foundation Initiative, and the John Templeton Foundation. Foundational support for Radiolab was provided by the Alfred P. Sloan Foundation.

Today we uncover an invisible killer hidden, for over a hundred years, by reasonable disbelief. Science journalist extraordinaire Carl Zimmer tells us the story of a centuries-long battle of ideas that came to a head, with tragic consequences, in the very recent past. His latest book, called Airborne, details a  largely forgotten history of science that never quite managed to get off the ground. Along the way, Carl helps us understand how we can fail, over and over again, to see a truth right in front of our faces. And how we finally came around thanks to scientific evidence hidden inside a song.EPISODE CREDITS:Reported by - Carl ZimmerProduced by - Sarah Qariwith mixing help from - Jeremy BloomFact-checking by - Natalie MiddletonEPISODE CITATIONS:Books -  Check out Carl Zimmer's new book, Airborne (https://zpr.io/Q5bdYrubcwE4).Articles -  Read about the study on the Skagit Valley Chorale COVID superspreading event (https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32979298/).Signup for our newsletter!! It includes short essays, recommendations, and details about other ways to interact with the show. Sign up (https://radiolab.org/newsletter)!Radiolab is supported by listeners like you. Support Radiolab by becoming a member of The Lab (https://members.radiolab.org/) today.Follow our show on Instagram, Twitter and Facebook @radiolab, and share your thoughts with us by emailing radiolab@wnyc.org.Leadership support for Radiolab's science programming is provided by the Gordon and Betty Moore Foundation, Science Sandbox, a Simons Foundation Initiative, and the John Templeton Foundation. Foundational support for Radiolab was provided by the Alfred P. Sloan Foundation.

Today, a story that starts small and private, with one woman alone in her bathroom, as she makes a quiet, startling discovery about her own body. But that small, private moment grows and grows, and pretty soon it becomes something so big that it has impacted the life of every person reading this right now… and all that without the woman ever even knowing the impact she had. We originally aired this story back in 2010, but we thought we'd bring it back today, as questions about bodily autonomy circle with renewed force.EPISODE CREDITS: Reported by - Rebecca SklootSignup for our newsletter!! It includes short essays, recommendations, and details about other ways to interact with the show. Sign up (https://radiolab.org/newsletter)!Radiolab is supported by listeners like you. Support Radiolab by becoming a member of The Lab (https://members.radiolab.org/) today.Follow our show on Instagram, Twitter and Facebook @radiolab, and share your thoughts with us by emailing radiolab@wnyc.org.Leadership support for Radiolab's science programming is provided by the Gordon and Betty Moore Foundation, Science Sandbox, a Simons Foundation Initiative, and the John Templeton Foundation. Foundational support for Radiolab was provided by the Alfred P. Sloan Foundation.

Annie McEwen went to a mountain in Pennsylvania to help catch some migratory owls. Then Scott Weidensaul peeled back the owl's feathery face disc, so that she could look at the back of its eyeball. No owls were harmed in the process, but this brief glimpse into the inner workings of a bird sent her off on a journey to a place where fleshy animal business bumps into the mathematics of subatomic particles. With help from Henrik Mouristen, we hear how one of the biggest mysteries in biology might finally find an answer in the weird world of quantum mechanics, where the classical rules of space and time are upended, and electrons dance to the beat of an enormous invisible force field that surrounds our planet.A very special thanks to Rosy Tucker, Eric Snyder, Holly Merker, and Seth Benz at the Hog Island Audubon Camp. Thank you to the owl-tagging volunteers Chris Bortz, Cassie Bortz, and Cheryl Faust at Hawk Mountain Sanctuary. Thank you to Jeremy Bloom and Jim McEwen for helping with the owls. Thank you to Isabelle Andreesen at the University of Oldenburg and thank you to Andrew Farnsworth at the Cornell Lab of Ornithology, as well as Nick Halmagyi and Andrew Otto. Thank you everyone!EPISODE CREDITS: Reported by -  Annie McEwenProduced by -  Annie McEwenOriginal music and sound design contributed by -  Annie McEwenwith field recording and reporting help by - Jeremy S. BloomFact-checking by -  Natalie Middletonand Edited by  -  Becca BresslerEPISODE CITATIONS:Places -  Check out Hog Island Audubon Camp at https://hogisland.audubon.org/. If you like birds, this is the place for you. The people, the food (my god the food), the views, the hiking, and especially the BIRDS are incredible. And if it's raptors you're specifically interested in, I highly recommend visiting Hawk Mountain Sanctuary www.hawkmountain.org. You can watch these amazing birds wheeling high above a stunning forested valley, if you're into that sort of thing… and maybe if you're lucky you'll even catch sight of some teeny weeny owls.Books  Scott Weidensaul will make you love birds if you don't already. Check out his books and go see him talk! http://www.scottweidensaul.com/Website If you want to learn more about the fascinating and wildly interdisciplinary field of magnetoreception in birds, you can dig into the work of Henrick Mouritsen at the University of Oldenburg and his colleagues at the University of Oxford here: https://www.quantumbirds.eu/  Signup for our newsletter! It includes short essays, recommendations, and details about other ways to interact with the show. Sign up (https://radiolab.org/newsletter)!Radiolab is supported by listeners like you. Support Radiolab by becoming a member of The Lab (https://members.radiolab.org/) today.Follow our show on Instagram, Twitter and Facebook @radiolab, and share your thoughts with us by emailing radiolab@wnyc.org.Leadership support for Radiolab's science programming is provided by the Gordon and Betty Moore Foundation, Science Sandbox, a Simons Foundation Initiative, and the John Templeton Foundation. Foundational support for Radiolab was provided by the Alfred P. Sloan Foundation.

In this episode, first aired in 2012, we have two stories of brains pushed off-course. We relive a surreal day in the life of a young researcher hijacked by her own brain, and hear from a librarian experiencing a bizarre and mysterious set of symptoms that she called “gravitational anarchy.”Special thanks to Sarah Montague and Ellen Horn, as well as actress Hope Davis, who read Rosemary Morton's story. And the late Berton Roueché, who wrote that story down. EPISODE CREDITS: Produced by - Brenna FarrellOriginal music and sound design contributed by - Tim Howard and Douglas Smith EPISODE CITATIONS:Books - Berton Roueché's story about Rosemary Morton,”Essentially Normal” first appeared in the New Yorker in 1958 and was later published by Dutton in a book called "The Medical Detectives."Signup for our newsletter. It includes short essays, recommendations, and details about other ways to interact with the show. Sign up (https://radiolab.org/newsletter)!Radiolab is supported by listeners like you. Support Radiolab by becoming a member of The Lab (https://members.radiolab.org/) today.Follow our show on Instagram, Twitter and Facebook @radiolab, and share your thoughts with us by emailing radiolab@wnyc.org.Leadership support for Radiolab's science programming is provided by the Gordon and Betty Moore Foundation, Science Sandbox, a Simons Foundation Initiative, and the John Templeton Foundation. Foundational support for Radiolab was provided by the Alfred P. Sloan Foundation.

We eat apples in the summer and enjoy bananas in the winter. When we do this, we go against the natural order of life which is towards death and decay. What gives? This week, Latif Nasser spoke with Nicola Twilley, the author of Frostbite: How Refrigeration Changed Our Food, Our Planet, and Ourselves. Twilley spent over a decade reporting about how we keep food alive as it makes its way from the farm to our table. This conversation explores the science of cold, how fruits hold a secret to eternal youth, and how the salad bag, of all things, is our local grocery store's unsung hero.Special thanks to Jim Lugg and Jeff WoosterEPISODE CREDITS: Reported by Latif Nasser and Nicola Twilleywith help from Maria Paz GutierrezProduced by Maria Paz GutierrezOriginal music from Jeremy BloomSound design contributed by Jeremy Bloomwith mixing help from Arianne WackFact-checking by Emily Krieger and Edited by Alex NeasonEPISODE CITATIONS:Articles  New Yorker Article - How the Fridge Changed Flavor (https://zpr.io/32TuSmAc2HbQ)by Nicola TwilleyNew Yorker Article - Africa's Cold Rush and the Promise of Refrigeration (https://zpr.io/3g9VdgKMAiHf) by Nicola TwilleyBooks Frostbite (https://zpr.io/Mg3Q7JCBvcAg) by Nicola TwilleySignup for our newsletter!! It includes short essays, recommendations, and details about other ways to interact with the show. Sign up (https://radiolab.org/newsletter)!Radiolab is supported by listeners like you. Support Radiolab by becoming a member of The Lab (https://members.radiolab.org/) today.Follow our show on Instagram, Twitter and Facebook @radiolab, and share your thoughts with us by emailing radiolab@wnyc.org.Leadership support for Radiolab's science programming is provided by the Gordon and Betty Moore Foundation, Science Sandbox, a Simons Foundation Initiative, and the John Templeton Foundation. Foundational support for Radiolab was provided by the Alfred P. Sloan Foundation.

In an episode first reported in 2017, we bring you a look up and down the US nuclear chain of command to find out who gets to authorize their use and who can stand in the way of Armageddon. President Richard Nixon once boasted that at any moment he could pick up a telephone and - in 20 minutes - kill 60 million people.  Such is the power of the US President over the nation's nuclear arsenal.  But what if you were the military officer on the receiving end of that phone call? Could you refuse the order?In this episode, we profile one Air Force Major who asked that question back in the 1970s and learn how the very act of asking it was so dangerous it derailed his career. We also pick up the question ourselves and pose it to veterans both high and low on the nuclear chain of command. Their responses reveal once and for all whether there are any legal checks and balances between us and a phone call for Armageddon.Special thanks to Elaine Scarry, Sam Kean, Ron Rosenbaum, Lisa Perry, Ryan Furtkamp, Robin Perry, Thom Woodroofe, Doreen de Brum, Jackie Conley, Sean Malloy, Ray Peter, Jack D'Annibale, Ryan Pettigrew at the Nixon Presidential Library and Samuel Rushay at the Truman Presidential Library.EPISODE CREDITS: Reported by - Latiff NasserProduced by - Annie McEwen and Simon Adlerwith help from - Arianne WackSignup for our newsletter! It comes out every Wednesday. It includes short essays, recommendations, and details about other ways to interact with the show. Sign up (https://radiolab.org/newsletter)!Radiolab is supported by listeners like you. Support Radiolab by becoming a member of The Lab (https://members.radiolab.org/) today.Follow our show on Instagram, Twitter and Facebook @radiolab, and share your thoughts with us by emailing radiolab@wnyc.org.Leadership support for Radiolab's science programming is provided by the Gordon and Betty Moore Foundation, Science Sandbox, a Simons Foundation Initiative, and the John Templeton Foundation. Foundational support for Radiolab was provided by the Alfred P. Sloan Foundation.

We fall down the looking glass with Sönke Johnsen, a biologist who finds himself staring at one of the darkest things on the planet. So dark, it's almost like he's holding a blackhole in his hands. On his quest to understand how something could possibly be that black, we enter worlds of towering microscopic forests, where gold becomes black, the deep sea meets the moon, and places that are empty suddenly become full. Corrections/Clarifications:In this episode, dragonfish are described as having teeth that slide back into their skull; that is the fangtooth fish, not the dragonfish. Though both can be ultra-black.The fishes described are the darkest things on the planet, but there are some other animals that are equally as dark, including butterflies, wasps, and birds.Vantablack is no longer the blackest man-made materialEPISODE CREDITS: Hosted by - Molly WebsterReported by - Molly WebsterProduced by - Rebecca Laks, Pat Walters, Molly Websterwith help from - Becca BresslerOriginal music from - Vetle Nærøwith mixing help from -Jeremy BloomFact-checking by - Natalie A. Middletonand Edited by  - Pat WaltersGuest - Sönke JohnsenEPISODE CITATIONS:Articles - Sönke Johnsen's research paper on ultra-black in the wings of butterfliesA paper by Sönke Johnsen that describes how structure can change color, by showing how clear quartz balls can — when in a random pile — go from clear, to very blue, to white, depending on the size of the individual balls. Music - This episode kicked-off with some music by Norwegian pianist Vetle Nærø, check him out online Videos  - Vantablack, a video about the look and design of the world's OG darkest man-made substance (get ready to be wowed), and a new material saying it's darker than Vanta.Signup for our newsletter. It includes short essays, recommendations, and details about other ways to interact with the show. Sign up (https://radiolab.org/newsletter)!Radiolab is supported by listeners like you. Support Radiolab by becoming a member of The Lab (https://members.radiolab.org/) today.Follow our show on Instagram, Twitter and Facebook @radiolab, and share your thoughts with us by emailing radiolab@wnyc.org.Leadership support for Radiolab's science programming is provided by the Gordon and Betty Moore Foundation, Science Sandbox, a Simons Foundation Initiative, and the John Templeton Foundation. Foundational support for Radiolab was provided by the Alfred P. Sloan Foundation.