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Stories in this episode: In the early days of his firefighting career, Steve enters a burning home to save a life and is forced to choose between protocol and following the Spirit; Heidi anguishes over her efforts to help create a documentary about Joseph Smith’s life until she receives a special witness from God; Alone in the rainforests of Madagascar, Elizabeth finds herself in dire need of heavenly power to call down a miracle. SHOW NOTES To see pictures and links for this episode, go to LDSLiving.com/thisisthegospel TRANSCRIPT   KaRyn  0:01  I have mixed feelings about what I'm about to tell you. I know that we need stories more now than ever, but the time has come for us to take a break here at This Is the Gospel so we can gather and prepare new episodes. We'll be back as soon as we can with season three, filled with totally new themes and new stories on those themes. And in the meantime, we'll still be over on Instagram @thisisthegospel_podcast and on Facebook at This is the Gospel, sharing all of our upcoming themes and pitch line requests, and maybe even a bonus episode or two. And so, while we won't have weekly episodes, we're not going to stop thinking of ways to help us all tell the stories that matter and lift up our week. Now on with the show. Welcome to This is the Gospel. An LDS Living podcast where we feature real stories from real people who are practicing and living their faith every day. I'm your host KaRyn Lay. I'm feeling pretty inadequate today. I'm sitting in my home office, the day after my very first earthquake, which also happens to be for me the seventh day of an unprecedented self-quarantine due to a global pandemic. And as I've attempted to write something to introduce today's theme, the only thought that keeps coming to me is, "I'm not sure I'm strong enough for these latter days, Heavenly Father. I'm just not sure I can do it." Well, maybe you've wondered the same thing about yourself, or maybe you've been through stranger moments than these and have a sure knowledge of your capacity to make good during hard times. Well, either way, I think it's still difficult to watch as things shut down all around us, left and right. Doors, literally closing, the doors of restaurants, libraries, businesses, and our homes as we step inside to protect our families, our neighbors, and our communities. And that's probably why today's episode took so long to come together. When we first launched Season Two in September, "The Heavens are Open" was one of the first episode themes we had slated to produce and air. And week after week, it got pushed back. First, we didn't quite have the right stories, and then we didn't quite have the time to make it what we wanted it to be, and so it kept moving further and further away from the beginning of the season and landed here instead, the very tail end of Season Two, in the middle of a time when I think maybe there's nothing that I need to know more than the fact that God really is present, that He's still here, and He's pouring His power and His glory and His goodness down on us in the midst of these latter days. He's coming to us in a still small voice, and He's coming to us in the thunder of a general conference broadcast, where despite the fact that we can't attend, we will hear Him in the prophetic council. He's here in the midst of us right now. He is here with us in the trenches of our humanity. The heavens are open if we choose to hear Him, as President Nelson has invited us to do. So today, finally, we have three stories from people who engaged with heaven here on Earth, in their own unique way. Our first storyteller is, a This is the Gospel favorite, my neighbor Steve, who shares a story from early in his days as a firefighter when a choice to follow the spirit over protocol just may have saved his life. Here's Steve. Steve  3:31  So we respond to an early morning fire, probably 5:30/6 o'clock in the morning, and we arrive and it's a call of just smoke. So we pull up on the fire apparatus and we get off and you can see that there's some smoke kind of coming out of the air conditioning unit on the top of the roof, but not nothing really crazy at this point. So we kind of look around, I'm with my captain because I'm a new guy, so I'm following him around, you know, and we kind of look up to the window and the inside of the window is pitch black, full of smoke, and there's always kind of streaks of water that runs down because all that water vaporizes and then kind of condenses on the window, and so you can tell -- so we know there's a fire inside, a pretty significant fire. Pop the door, breached the door, and huge smoke comes out, right? It's on fire. It's burning and it's hot. So I get the hose line and with my partner and we kind of start making our advance into this very dark structure. One of the first things I learned that becoming a new firefighter is not like TV. The real fires, structure fires, when the fire is contained inside of a box, a house, are black, heavy, oppressive smoke, you cannot see, and it's terribly hot. Some of those things that we can't simulate in training is the oppressive heat and just the the density of the smoke. I mean, you literally cannot see your hand in front your face. So I'm kind of bumping around in you know, inside dragging the hose on, and we're trying to find a fire. We can't find it. We can hear it cracking. The heat is oppressive. So we know we're getting close, and there's dense, heavy smoke. You know, we're yelling, "Is anyone in here? Is anyone here?" You know, "We're looking for people," and then somehow I kind of get a little bit separated from my partner and it's getting really hot now and I'm just pushing a little bit farther, a little bit farther, a little bit farther, right, the statement is, "We will risk our lives a lot in a calculated manner to save a savable life. We will not risk our lives at all, to save that which they're already lost or has no value." So I'm in that calculated manner "Save a saveable life." We think someone's inside here. I can notice very distinctly, I can feel through my gloves, the change in kind of carpet to linoleum, so I know I'm in a kitchen, and now it's really hot in the kitchen, so the fire is probably around here somewhere, and I'm only about half a meter inside. And it's one of those rare times in my life and that I hear in my mind, "Stephen, get off the floor." To my shame, I kind of ignore it the first time because I'm looking for someone, right? So I push a little bit, a little bit farther into the room. "Steven, get off the floor and move out of the kitchen." "Okay," so I started backing up. I'm kind of pulling the hose line back, and literally the second I move off that linoleum floor and back into the carpet, the entire floor caves in. Suddenly, you can see everything. There's fire to to the ceiling, fire to the wall. My partner, I hear him call a mayday and he bails out of the window. And now I am, I'm in here and I've lost the hose line. So I don't know where I am. So I'm trying to back up, it's hot. I see a bunch of orange in front of me. And I'm starting to back out and you can hear the radio traffic is escalating on the outside. And I don't know how long I was in there, but I'm trying to bump my way back to the front room through the smoke, and I think I'm just about to the door and this big hand comes in, grabs me by the scruff of the neck, my turnout gear, pulls me out of the front door and kind of stands me up and it's this big, classic, if you were to make a character of any firefighter, it would be this guy. Big mustache, like 6 foot 2,300 pounds, big dude stands me right up on my feet and says, "Hey, are you okay?" and my turnout gear is all smokey and burned and I "Yes, thank you," you know, that kind of thing. And I get out, and then we fight the fire from the exterior, we can't find anyone inside at the time. But it was one of those rare, rare occurrences in my life where somebody cared about me and told me to do something and move, and I moved. Given my experience, I'm pretty sure I would not have survived that, frankly. But I'm so grateful, right, for that experience, and for that loving Heavenly Father and that still small voice. It wasn't loud in the chaos or the fire, wearing my turnout gear, I'm all encapsulated, and it was that still small voice that called me by name and told me to move. Since that time, I have resolved to do the best I can to listen. Now clearly there have been times when I can't tell what it is, if it's just an impression, if it's... who knows? Who cares, right? Doesn't matter. And I've done what I felt like I should have done or what I felt like I was told to do and there was no miraculous, no seminal moment in my life, but there have been other times when I have listened and things have changed. I hope I'm always worthy enough to have that connection. KaRyn  8:48  That was Steve. If you haven't heard Steve's season one story from our "To the Rescue" episode, it's definitely worth revisiting. What I appreciate about the story and about Steve is that acknowledgement, that moments like these, moments of pure and clear revelation, are rare in his life. But when they do happen, if he chooses to listen, things change. And there's something really interesting about the practice of listening that Steve mentioned at the end of his story. You know, sometimes we may have an impression, a thought, or a feeling, and maybe we're unsure of its origin. "Was that the still small voice? Or was it last night's very bad decision to go to Taco Bell?" It's not always easy to discern. But if we practice moving forward with confidence, as long as the impression is moving us towards discipleship and Christ, we will make ourselves ready to receive and obey when the pure heavenly messages reveal themselves through revelation. Our next story comes from writer and historian Heidi who received a special witness from God through a story from the Prophet Joseph's life.   Here's Heidi. Heidi  9:56  I was walking in the Salt Lake City Cemetery. I like to walk, and I love walking into the cemetery because there are all of these grave sites and you look at the names and the dates and you recognize that in each one of those graves is someone who has a host of stories you wish you knew. Now -- I'm a writer and a historian, and so that's very intriguing to me. So as I walk along, I'm often looking at that. Well this particular day, I was walking along in the cemetery, and I had just finished a very major project that had taken me almost two and a half, three years, and it was about the Prophet Joseph Smith. I was writing a documentary for PBS. It wasn't for the church. It was for people that didn't know Joseph. It was for people, it had to be what we called "bilingual." It had to speak to them and to members of the Church, but mostly to people who could be a little bit angry. Well, I'm walking along, and I realized that my hands no longer have an opportunity to do anything to that documentary. It's gone off to PBS to be signed off, and to be put up. And I was so sad. I was so sad that as I'm walking along, there are tears running down my face. And I could just imagine that the people who are mowing the grass were looking over at this lady who's walking and she's weeping, and that just doesn't seem to be right. But I was crying because I felt like I had failed. I wrote 47 versions of that documentary trying to get it right. What I wanted to have happen in people's lives because of the film, because of the book that would be out there as well, because of my understanding of Joseph Smith, I didn't want them to just place him in history. I didn't want them to just say, you know, "He did a lot of interesting things." I wanted them to have the experience of having the spirit say to them, "This is a prophet of God." I wanted them to be able to reach beyond everyday life, that linear plane we live on, that date, time, and place, I wanted them to reach beyond that, and have a spiritual experience that can only be administered from the heavens. I love Brigham Young's statement. I felt like shouting "hallelujah" to think I ever knew the Prophet Joseph Smith. I wanted people to feel that because I felt that. I felt like I knew him and I knew him before I came here. I felt like I had the responsibility to tell the story of the Prophet Joseph Smith in such a way that people would be drawn to him who otherwise had no interest or were even negative about his life in his teachings. That I had the opportunity to tell how great he was and how significant he was, not just in the history of the United States or religion as it was growing, but in the history of the world. And I had this grand view, and I didn't feel like I had gotten the documentary to that place. I didn't feel like I had just nailed it. You know how it is sometimes when you feel like, "Ah I got it!" and in this case, there were pieces that as hard as I had tried, I hadn't pulled it together. And so now here I am 47 versions later. I just felt this, "wait," that this is Joseph Smith we're talking about, and so I'm walking along, and I started talking right out loud to my Father in Heaven. I can remember saying to him, "I tried so hard. I can't remember anything being as difficult as this was." I'm telling the Lord about how I feel, and He knows because I was so prayerful while I did this. I was always talking to Him about, "I just don't know how to handle this, and I don't know how to handle that." And I would like to say that, you know, all of a sudden it would just appear on my screen, the Lord would say, "Oh, well, here's what you do with that," never happened. I just had to slog my way through it, and that's the way it is for almost everybody. These things don't just drop down from the sky, and so I'm telling him about how Heidi feels now. I'm putting Heidi back in the picture because Heidi's given two and a half years of her life, lost 28 pounds, worked herself to the bone, and but it didn't matter. None of that mattered. What mattered was that I did my part for Joseph Smith. So I'm walking along and the tears are running down my face and I'm just saying, you know, "I wanted this and I wanted that," kind of some of the things I've talked about. And then all of a sudden this sense of peace came over me, and I remember stopping. I didn't keep walking. I remember stopping and I know right where I was, I was on the hill right below where John Taylor is buried. And I stopped there, and the thought came into my mind, and I'm one of those people the Lord communicates to in words, I don't get those burnings and the tingling’s and I don't get those. I'm a word person, so I think He knows that and He says, "Oh I'll just talk to her and she'll listen." But words came into my mind, and the words were, "Heidi, Joseph had to give the endowment in the red brick store. It wasn't the way he wanted it, but it worked." Now, let me flashback for a minute to the second story of the red brick store. Joseph Smith, in 1840, had stood up before all of the saints who had gathered from many of them from the British Isles and eastern United States, and he said to them, "We need the temple more than anything else." And then he said, "if I can just live to see the temple completed, I'll say, 'Lord, it is enough. Let thy servant depart in peace.'" He gets down the road a couple of years, and it's 1842. This is an important date for Joseph Smith because the temple is starting to rise up on the hillside. It's only to ground level if that, but they are beginning to see that though they're living in tents and in caves on the mountain side, they're beginning to see the significance of this temple that is going to tower over the Mississippi River on this bend, and the people are excited about that. They're giving everything they have. And Joseph is giving everything he has, contemplating that when this temple is completed, he gets to essentially complete his mission, that he has done the Book of Mormon and he's received priesthood power, and he's brought the saints gathered to here they are, they've started doing baptisms for the dead, and the temple is going to be the culmination of their religious experience. Okay, so Joseph knows all of this. It's in his head, and he's just wanting the Lord to let him just see it through to the end. And then 1842, he knows that he's not going to be there when the temple is completed. He sees how slowly it's going, and he recognizes, "I'm not going to be here." And so then he has to make the decision. "What do I do? Well, I've got to give the endowment," and he knows what it is, "I got to give the endowment in such a way and to enough people that it can be carried on when I'm gone and when the temple is completed." He takes them into the second story of the red brick store, nine men to the red brick store, it takes all day, and he gives them their endowment. I just sometimes think about how Joseph Smith must have felt. Here's Joseph watching this last piece, this culminating piece of the restoration slipway, he doesn't get to be there for it, after everything that he's given and everything that he's done. That experience in the red brick store came back to my mind in the cemetery. It was like the heavens had opened and the light came down, and I looked around, wondering if anyone else had heard what I'd heard because it was so pronounced, and it made so much sense to me because it kind of put some closure to Joseph's life for me, but more than that, I felt connected to him in a personal way. I understand now, that you put everything forward and the Lord knew that, and He said, "It wasn't the way he wanted it, and this isn't the way you wanted it, but it worked for Joseph." And then I thought to myself, "It will work." And it was one of those times where the heavens opened, and where the Lord kind of brought the whole thing together for me, not for anyone else. Now, it was just for me. And I have reflected back on that so many times of when things haven't come together just the way I wanted for this or for that, I just say to myself, "Heidi, Joseph had to give the endowment in the red brick store. It wasn't the way he wanted it, but it worked. It worked." And I will say to myself over and over again, "This will work." I don't, I don't think we allow Him to be that much a part of our lives sometimes. I think we want reinforcement from a lot of other places, and that was the only reinforcement that really mattered because it was so tied to what I've been doing, and it moved me legions forward. I think sometimes we expect the heavens to open when we ask for it, and we expect the heavens to open with the answer that we're asking for. And what I found so engaging in my connection to the heavens, is that the Lord came to me with something I didn't expect, but it was far more, it was far broader and far more enveloping for me because He knew what I needed. I think I came to the end of this project with a perspective because I had come to know Joseph Smith in a way that I prize not just my testimony of him and his work, but my witness of his goodness, all the way to his heart and his soul. I learned from him that it was not easy, not ever, to move the work forward, the restoration, it was not something that just the heavens opened and all the answers were there, he had to do a lot of legwork in order for things to get done. It isn't about the work per se. I learned from him that it's about the effort and the willingness to submit to the Lord. KaRyn  22:15  That was Heidi Swinton. Heidi is the award-winning writer of the PBS documentary "American Prophet: The Story of Joseph Smith," which was recently reissued as part of the bicentennial celebration of the first vision. And aside from her delightful storytelling abilities, Heidi holds a special place in my heart because it was during a deep and meaningful airplane conversation with her four years ago that I first jotted down the phrase "This is the Gospel" in my journal. Her unique knowledge of the Prophet Joseph Smith and her love and respect for him is absolutely inspiring to me. Sometimes he feels really far away and when I talked to Heidi, somehow he becomes real. And isn't it so cool that our God is an efficient God, He parts the heaven for Joseph in 1842, and then uses that experience to pour down his love and grace to Heidi in the 20th century. I've said it before, and I'll say it again, and I'll just keep saying it, our stories may just be the instrument that God chooses to use when he opens the heavens to our posterity generations from now. So write it down, write it down now so that it can do some good in the future. Our final story today comes from Elizabeth, who needed a miracle and got it when she discovered just how to ask for it.   Here's Elizabeth. Elizabeth  23:46  I was in this room with just a bed with a mosquito net and a little nightstand. I took off my boots and my sock and my foot was horribly infected. It was red, it was swollen, and I was really scared about how I was going to get out of there because I was three days into a seven-day hike in Madagascar and there were no hospitals. The whole reason I was there was because when I was a kid, I saw the show on the Discovery Channel about Madagascar, and how the forests were all being cut down and that lemurs only live there, and they were all endangered because of all this deforestation. And so my plan when I was a kid was to win the lottery, which I've played the lottery, but I was going to win a million dollars and buy Madagascar, and then everybody had to leave unless they agreed to not cut down the forests. So I've always loved wildlife, and I became a park ranger when I grew up. And I was working at Denali National Park in Alaska, and I had two months off every winter, so I would go someplace warm and sunny. I've been to Africa a bunch of times, to South Africa, Botswana, Namibia. In 2011, I was in Uganda, worked at a clinic for five weeks and then climbed Kilimanjaro. And then in 2013, I finally got to go to Madagascar. And I had three things that I wanted to do when I was there. I wanted to see a fossa. The fossa is the largest predator of lemurs in Madagascar, and I read that the best place to see him was Kirindy National Forest Park, so I went there. And then I wanted to do some volunteer work, so I found a place to volunteer for two weeks with nutrition for kids under age four. And then I wanted to hike in Masoala national park on the Masoala peninsula. So when you hike in the national parks in Madagascar, it's required that you hire a guide. So I flew into Maroantsetra and I went to the park office to arrange the hike, and the only guide they had that spoke English was Claudio, so I hired him. Because it was really hot and humid there, I didn't want to carry my own backpack. So I hired a porter. So the porters, they carry your backpack, they set up the tents, they cook the food, they even cooked lunch, they cooked all three meals. They didn't let me do anything actually, they were really good. And my backpack was kind of heavy, it had everything for six weeks in there, and we still needed food, so I hired another porter. So I had Gerard, who was an older guy, and Jovan and Claudio. Gerard and Jovan didn't speak any English, there's just Claudio. And then the trail was seven days long. We started on a pirogue, which is a little canoe that you can either paddle or push with a pole. After we got off the pirogue, we started hiking, and that was the one place where like the trail was kind of wide, and there were villagers, people living there and there was fruit trees, mango trees, and lychee trees and people were fishing and they had their fish laying out in the sun to dry, and there was a lot of shade on the trail because of all the big trees. So on the first night, we stayed in a hotel which had one one room and there was a shed out back with a barrel of water and a little cup for a shower. And on my way to the shower, after I had taken off my boots, I noticed that I had this big blister in between my big toe and the bottom of my foot. Really strange place for blister, I've never gotten one there before. And I wasn't worried about it, I've gotten so many blisters. It seems like every hike that I go on, I get blisters all over my feet, and it's just kind of an inconvenience, but I'm used to it. And I've never had a, you know, a serious problem, it's just been painful. During the night, my blister kind of filled up with fluid, and so when I started that second day, it almost immediately popped and Claudio told me there'd be river crossings, so I was wearing my sandals that second day. And there were river crossings, but they're also like the trail was flooded because we were walking between rice paddies, and it was really dirty water because there were cows everywhere and the rivers weren't particularly clean either. And so the trail was sometimes up to my shin in water and the river crossings were, you know, mid-thigh, so it was a lot of splashing through water that second day. And at the end of the second day, I thought, "well, I gotta clean this blister as best as I can." So I had some hand sanitizer and I kind of, you know, washed it off with that, but I did find a leech in the broken blister and I pulled that thing out. So I washed it as best as I could and didn't think much of it because it's just a blister. So on the third day, I wore my boots again and I was just hiking along like normal and around the afternoon, my foot started to get pretty sore, and I loosened the laces because I just thought, "Well, maybe I just tied my boot too tight today." But by the end of the day, as we were getting into the village where we're going to spend the night, I was trying really hard not to limp because my foot was so tender just to walk on and I just assumed that I had a lot more blisters. But then when I got to my room and took my boot off and my sock off, I saw that my foot was red, and it was swollen. I couldn't even see my ankle bone. My little toes were like little red sausages, and my foot was hot to the touch, and it was infected. And I didn't know how I was gonna walk the next day because it hurt so bad. So I didn't know how I was gonna get out of there, I didn't think that I was going to be able to walk the next day. And I was so freaked out that I didn't, I was afraid to tell Claudio, and there was nobody else that spoke English, and there were no clinics, there were no hospitals. There wasn't even electricity, there was no running water. I felt like I was in the middle of nowhere, and I was really stressed out. I didn't know if the infection was gonna get worse in the next day. I'm 5 foot 10 and I was taller than most of the people I met there and I thought, “they can't carry me out. We're three days in, four days the next way," you know, like, "What am I gonna do?" And I was just in this little room with there's little stick walls, the sticks close together, and you could see people moving around outside, like through the gaps in the sticks. And there's this lonely dark room with just my little kerosene lamp, and I felt so alone because I was feeling really far from anything I knew, and just all by myself out there in Madagascar, in the middle of nowhere, and I really, I really just wanted a priesthood blessing, and I wanted to find a member of the Church to give me a blessing, but there were no churches out there, there were no members of the Church. I had my little iPod touch with me and I hadn't used it because there's no way to charge it, but I knew I had conference talks on there. So I turned it on, and I had October 2012 conference talks on there. I had one by Elder Holland, about the first commandment, and he talks about the apostles and how they must have felt after Jesus was crucified and was resurrected and then he left, and they say, "Well, what do we do now?" And Peter says, "Well, I guess we just go back to fishing." And then he talks about, you know, he paraphrases Jesus saying to them, "Shouldn't this have, you know, being with me for three years, shouldn't it have changed you?" And I thought about how I've been changed by going to the temple and making my covenants there. I just, you know, sitting there in that dark room with just Elder Holland, in that conference talk, it made me realize that I wasn't alone and that I could ask for the power to be healed, I could pray. So I did, I knelt down on the floor outside the mosquito netting, and I said a prayer and I said, "Heavenly Father, I know you can heal my foot. Even if you choose not to, I know you won't leave me here. You haven't abandoned me, something will work out." And I knew that because I try to keep my covenants, I had this power I could ask for; to help me. And the best part was that I got done with that prayer and I felt peaceful. I wasn't worried about it. I knew something would work out. And I didn't feel so alone anymore. After that prayer, I went to sleep. I was able to get to sleep, and I woke up in the morning and my foot was back to normal size, and it wasn't hot anymore, it wasn't red. It was still a little sore, but it was healed. And my foot was better. It was miraculous. The other blisters I had didn't bother me for the rest of the hike. I was able to finish the hike. I had a wonderful time. I didn't even get any more leeches. It was just a fantastic experience, and I am so thankful that I could have that reassurance that I knew that I had that power to draw on and that I wasn't alone, that Heavenly Father wouldn't leave me and that I could ask for his help. KaRyn  33:36  That was Elizabeth. I adore the simple story of healing for so many reasons. but I think my favorite part is this. Yes, waking up to a healed foot overnight is miraculous, but I think the real miracle in a rain forest in Madagascar thousands and thousands of miles from home, was actually her revelation about the Priesthood of God. That it's here, on the Earth right now because of the restoration of the gospel in this dispensation, and as a faithful covenant keeping Daughter of God, she is never without access to its power, whether she's home or abroad. She said she feels grateful to be able to draw on that power. You know, this is a really interesting phrase that we sometimes use when we talk about the priesthood. To draw on something or to draw down something, means that we access a thing that is useful or precious that we've held in reserve. It's used in reference to money or oil or gas or water. There's a sense that when we draw on reserves, they diminish and I know that that's true about my canned peaches, and that's why I hold on to them with a fist of iron, but you know, the Priesthood Power of God is never diminished when we call it down. And the Prophet Joseph Smith promised us that it will, quote, "Never be taken from the Earth while mortality endures, for there will always be need for temporal direction, and the performance of ordinances," end quote. And you know what that means to me? That while everything else seems like it is closing around us, the heavens will never be closed to us as long as we're here trudging through dank waters on African islands with our broken bodies. That we can be sure of. You know, we chose the theme for this episode after reading Sister Wendy Nelson's book with the same title, and as the wife of our Prophet, President Nelson, she has a courtside seat to the continuing revelation and heavenly guidance that defines his role of Prophet, Seer, and Revelator for the Church. One of my favorite moments in the book was when Sister Nelson shared this, she said, quote, "Recently my husband said to me, 'Wendy, the Lord is just as eager to give revelation to you as He is to give it to me,'" end quote. I think it's easy to forget that we're entitled. By virtue of our divine nature as Daughters and Sons of God, that we're entitled to call down the heavens and all that that entails. Prophets or people with weighty jobs in the Church do not get a more direct line to the heavens just because of the work they do. They may receive different kinds of information or have a different scope to that connection, but our God is no respecter of persons. And while the Prophet has a special calling and specific authority to receive revelation for the Church as a whole, he is no more entitled to the gifts of such connection than you or me. And so how do we do it? In these absolutely wild and crazy times when we might need to draw upon the endless reserves of heavenly power more than ever? How do we move with confidence when the voice calls us by name to get off the floor in our smoke filled spaces, or open the door to the piece of heaven when we're not sure we've done enough? How do we call down healing and hope in the jungles of loneliness? Well, we start with the Savior. We always start with the Savior. Sister Nelson wrote this quote, "As we truly focus on the Savior, as we truly remember Him and His infinite Atonement, as day after day we think of Him more and more, the heavens will open. Our fears and doubts will decrease. Some will even flee! We will be led along. We will know what to do, step by step. We will learn how to draw upon the power available to us because the Savior atoned for us. We will learn how to access His cleansing, healing, redemptive, strengthening power. And we will experience the freedom to be our true selves as we unyoke ourselves from the world and instead yoke ourselves to the Savior," end quote. So for those of you, who like me, struggle with feeling just a little bit inadequately matched to the times ahead, what we have to remember is that we're already here. We're here, and we're already made adequate through Christ, through our best efforts and his grace and mercy. Maybe we're showing up imperfectly and in pieces right now, and maybe we could choose to be a little bit more intentional in those efforts. I know I could. But if we're trying, then we're exactly where we should be, doing exactly what we should be doing, the heavens do see us and they do know us, and they are blessing us as we call upon them and draw down their powers. That's it for this episode of This is the Gospel. Thank you to our storytellers, firefighter Steve, historian Heidi S. Swinton and adventurer Elizabeth. We'll have links to Heidi's documentary as well as Sister Nelson's beautiful book "The Heavens Are Open," and other good stuff including a transcript of this episode in the show notes at LDSLiving.com/ThisistheGospel. All of the stories on this podcast are true and accurate as affirmed by our storytellers. We love to hear all the ways that this type of storytelling strengthens your faith in God and love for his children. If you have a minute to leave us a review, and a rating, wherever you listen to your podcast, please do. We've got plenty of time, I know you're sitting in your house wondering what to do. Especially during this hiatus, all the good words help us to keep working hard and know more of the kinds of stories and themes that are most meaningful to you. And, added bonus if you didn't already know, every single review helps us to show up in the search for more people when they're looking for something good to listen to. If you have a story to share about Living the Gospel, please call our pitch line, leave us a pitch. We often find many of our stories including Elizabeth's story today from the pitch line, and we love to hear how the Gospel has blessed your life. And the pitch line is very much open during this social distancing, so call 515-519-6179 and pitch your story in three minutes or less. This episode was produced by me, KaRyn Lay, with story editing and producing by Jasmine Mullen, Katie Lambert, Erika Free, and Danielle Wagner. It was scored, mixed, and mastered by Mix at Six Studios. That is such a tongue twister. Our executive producer is Erin Hallstrom. You can find past episodes of this podcast and other LDS Living podcasts at LDSLiving.com/podcasts. Stay healthy, catch up on old episodes, and we'll see you soon.    

Writer and performer Annie Lanzillotto discusses the pleasure of wolfing food down and how the "feels like" temperature is measured. ABOUT THE GUEST:  Born and raised in the Westchester Square neighborhood of the Bronx of Barese heritage, Annie Lanzillotto is renowned memoirist, poet, and performance artist. She's the author of L IS FOR LION: AN ITALIAN BRONX BUTCH FREEDOM MEMOIR (SUNY Press), the books of poetry SCHISTSONG (Bordighera Press) and Hard Candy/Pitch Roll Yaw (Guernica Editions). She has received fellowships and performance commissions from New York Foundation For The Arts, Dancing In The Streets, Dixon Place, Franklin Furnace, The Rockefeller Foundation for shows including CONFESSIONS OF A BRONX TOMBOY: My Throwing Arm, This Useless Expertise, How to Wake Up a Marine in a Foxhole, and a’Schapett. More info at annielanzillotto.com. Catch Annie performing her one-person show Feed Time at City Lore in Manhattan on November 15 at 7:30pm. ABOUT THE HOST:  Neil Goldberg is an artist in NYC who makes work that The New York Times has described as “tender, moving and sad but also deeply funny.” His work is in the permanent collection of MoMA and other museums, he’s a Guggenheim Fellow, and teaches at the Yale School of Art. More information at neilgoldberg.com. ABOUT THE TITLE:  SHE'S A TALKER was the name of Neil’s first video project. “One night in the early 90s I was combing my roommate’s cat and found myself saying the words ‘She’s a talker.’ I wondered how many other other gay men in NYC might be doing the exact same thing at that very moment. With that, I set out on a project in which I videotaped over 80 gay men in their living room all over NYC, combing their cats and saying ‘She’s a talker.’” A similar spirit of NYC-centric curiosity and absurdity animates the podcast. CREDITS:  This series is made possible with generous support from Stillpoint Fund.  Producer: Devon Guinn  Creative Consultants: Stella Binion, Aaron Dalton, Molly Donahue  Assistant Producers: Itai Almor, Charlie Theobald  Editor: Andrew Litton  Visuals and Sounds: Joshua Graver  Theme Song: Jeff Hiller  Media: Justine Lee with help from Angela Liao and Alex Qiao  Thanks: Jennifer Callahan, Roger Kingsepp, Tod Lippy, Nick Rymer, Maddy Sinnock, Sue Simon, Shirin Mazdeyasna TRANSCRIPT: ANNIE LANZILLOTTO: In the Bronx we weren't poor. You're in the Bronx. My father was, working class, had his own business. There wasn't such big class distinctions. It was like Fiddler on the Roof class distinctions, like the butcher ate better. NEIL GOLDBERG: Right. ANNIE: We all had Raleigh Choppers. That was the best bicycle and really, most of us on the block could get that, a Schwinn or a Raleigh, you know? That was it really. That was in terms of being a kid, that was the class distinction. I achieved it, so I grew up feeling pretty rich until I was 13. NEIL: Hello, I'm Neil Goldberg and this is my new podcast, She's A Talker. On today's episode I'll be talking to one-of-a-kind of poet, playwright, memoirist and performer Annie Lanzillotto. But first, I want to tell you a little bit about the podcast itself. I'm a visual artist, but for the last million or so years I've been writing passing thoughts down on index cards. I've got thousands of them. I originally wrote the cards just for me or maybe as starting points for future art projects, but now I'm using them as prompts for conversations with some of my favorite artists, writers, performers, and beyond. Why is it called She's A Talker? Way back in 1993, I made my first-ever video project which featured dozens of gay men in their apartments all over New York city combing their cats and saying the words, "She's a talker." 25 years later, I'm excited to resurrect the phrase for this podcast. NEIL: Each episode, I'll start with some recent cards. Here they are, photo project, the litter boxes of celebrities, those people who have strong feelings about you're saying, "Bless you.", Before they sneeze. Babies making their dolphin noises at a wedding. Those glass buildings that appear curved, but then you realize it's just an approximation of a curve made from rectangle. I am so excited to have as my guest, writer and performer Annie Lanzillotto. Annie and I went to college together many, many years ago and have been dear friends ever since. She produced, what to this day, is still one of my favorite performance pieces ever. A site-specific opera featuring the vendors at the Arthur Avenue market near where she grew up in the Bronx. I remember a butcher singing a gorgeous love aria while frying up chicken hearts. NEIL: Annie has a new double book of poetry out from Guernica Editions, called Hard Candy / Pitch Roll Yaw, which touches on parental mortality, her own struggles with cancer and poverty. And if that sounds heavy, there is so much beauty and joy and pleasure and straight-up polarity in the work. I spoke to Annie very late on a very hot August night in my art studio in Chinatown. NEIL: I'm recording. I'm recording. NEIL: I'm here with Annie Lanzillotto. Okay, Annie. Here are a couple of questions that I ask everyone. What is the elevator pitch for what you do? ANNIE: Oh my God, that's so hard. I write and speak and put my body on stage, and in live and an audience, whoever's in the room, I resuscitate that room. NEIL: Is that what you would say to someone in an elevator who asks, "Hey, what do you do?" ANNIE: No. NEIL: What would you say to them? I resuscitate the room. ANNIE: Some people I say, "Well, I do theater. Oh, I'm in theater." Then they say, "Oh, I saw the Lion King.", or something. Oh, that's beautiful. At some point when I was cleaning out the closets, I found the picture I drew as a kid. I think the question was, what do you do or what do you want to do or what do want to be or whatever? I drew five situations where this stick figure was commanding a story. One was at the table, one was on a corner, one was on the stage, and I thought, "That's what I do." NEIL: I love it. I love it. ANNIE: The truth about my elevator pitch is I'm listening to the other person in the elevator. That really is the truth. I always feel like I'm very good at bonding but not so good at networking. So, that elevator pitch, in my mind, is someone who is in a position maybe to help me advance my work, which is a problem to frame it that way. But in reality they end up telling me about their sick kid and we're hugging and that's really the elevator pitch. NEIL: Right. ANNIE: I'm just listening to- NEIL: Do you do an elevator catch? ANNIE: Yeah. Just listen. NEIL: What did your mom, Annie, let's say a friend of hers asked her, "What does Annie do?" What would she say? ANNIE: Well, she at times, probably would've said, I taught. I did workshops, taught writing and theater. I think with her neighbors, she would really share with them her love and pride. NEIL: How about your grandmother? Why would she say? ANNIE: Oh God. Well, Grandma Rose, she would, Grandma Rose always wanted to know you were eating good. At the time when she was alive, I was hustling a lot of teaching jobs, like Poet in the Schools. Mostly I was a Poet in the School, so I would call her between schools. I was running from one school and another school and she'd just always want to know cosa mangia oggi? What did you eat today? Really that was the conversation. NEIL: Would she, in talking about you with friends, would she tell them what you had eaten that day? How's Annie doing? ANNIE: She's a good eater. She eats good. Mangia bene. No, I don't know. I don't think she talked to her friends that way. NEIL: Yeah. ANNIE: But to boil it down, she would want to know if you're making money. And that's the conversation with friends. Oh, she's a good girl. She makes money. She helps her mother. NEIL: Yeah. ANNIE: It wasn't about career choice or something. NEIL: Annie, what's something you find yourself thinking about today? ANNIE: One thought I'm having is that prices are arbitrary. The other day I went for breakfast in a diner. I ordered one way, but the waitress understood in a different way. So anyway, it was two eggs, whatever. So she said, "That'll be $17." I said, "That sounds like a lot." She said," Oh well you got this, you got that" I said, "Yeah, but I ordered the combo. It's shouldn't be that much." So she rang it up a different way. She was like, "All right, how about $12?" It's almost seems like prices don't matter and it seems arbitrary. I think this is a new experience for me because in the past I started noticing what my mom, every time we went food shopping, several items were rung up more than they were supposed to be. My mother was sharp at this because I think in ShopRite if you caught a mistake, you got a lot for free, whatever the, there was some bonus like you got that item for free or whatever it was. So she caught them a lot. But it was pretty much every time. NEIL: Yeah. ANNIE: I'm cognizant now not to buy too many items at once because then I can't keep track of what the prices were on the shelf. The old way, if you go to the market for two, three things, string beans, peaches and a piece of meat you don't lose track because you're buying, you have a push cart with a million items, how can you keep track? So I guess the thought is that prices have no relevance anymore to what the thing is. NEIL: Okay Annie, let's go to the cards. Shall we? ANNIE: Let's do it. Let's go to the cards. NEIL: Okay. Our first card, the card says the pleasure of wearing things out. ANNIE: I love that you brought that up. Well, I was always wearing out my sneakers and throwing them up on the telephone wires or the light wires, or whatever wires were over our heads in the Bronx and that was the joy to wear them out. My mother, who was a cripple as a kid because she fell out a window, would always say to me when she bought me new sneakers, PF flyers with the sneakers that I wore as a kid, "Wear them out. God bless you, be in good health. Wear them out." Every two months I'd wear out those sneakers, and my grandmother was horrified. NEIL: But your mother would love it? ANNIE: Yeah, because to her that was health. Wear out your sneakers. That meant I was doing the work of a tomboy, of the kid. I do feel worried about wearing out pajamas and things that I don't really have money to replace. So my neighbor saw me sewing a new elastic in my pajama bottoms with the flannel pajamas. She was making fun of me." Why don't you just go buy a new pair?" I was like, "Well this season I really don't have another 40, 50 bucks for LLB or whatever. I want to get through the season.", which is something I grew up hearing, but it stayed with me, like see if he could get into the season out of it. NEIL: I wonder if we'll ever feel that way about our lives. Let's see if I can get another season out of this. ANNIE: Well, I do hear people saying, "I wish I had a few more summers at the beach." Or, "I could, I hope I could have a few more summers." People do count like that. NEIL: That's true. ANNIE: Like seasons. NEIL: Yeah. ANNIE: "I hope I see Italy one more time." I hear people, "Will I get back to Paris." NEIL: Right. ANNIE: You know, I hear people saying things like that. NEIL: yeah, ANNIE: So they do try to stretch it out, I think. I don't know. Sometimes I feel like I've done enough. There is a part of me that feels like I've done enough to be satisfied if there's no more. If there's no more, it's okay. NEIL: Okay, next card. ANNIE: I love these cards. It's like playing a game like Monopoly. NEIL: Yeah. ANNIE: And you get Community Chest or whatever the- NEIL: I know. ANNIE: Chance. It's like Chance. NEIL: Yeah. Here's this Chance. I think it's important to have access when you are eating something you love to imagine them as they are to people who hate them. For me the classic example of that is dark chocolate, which I love. It's very easy I think, for me to plug into how someone would find this disgusting and somehow my tuning into finding it disgusting, helps me to enjoy it even more. ANNIE: Really? NEIL: Yeah. Do you remember the first time you had coffee? ANNIE: No, because I was probably two years old with expresso on my bottle, like most Italian kids. NEIL: Right. ANNIE: I don't eat things that I know people who, they hate what I eat. But people do, I feel like having a version to my proportions, the amount I eat. I think that freaks people out because I grew up, and I still wolf food down. Just Wolf it down and too much of it. Just shoving it in your mouth. Like your cheeks bulging, you're chewing and you're just yeah. Shoving as much as you can in your mouth, basically. NEIL: In Yiddish, you say, and I think it's related to German, human beings es but animals fres. So, if you're talking about someone eating in a certain way, you say they use the term for how animals eat versus how people eat. ANNIE: Fres? NEIL: Yeah. ANNIE: What does that mean? Like that? NEIL: Yeah. ANNIE: Like a piece of pizza I could just shove in my mouth, inhale, a good piece, out on the corner. NEIL: Right. ANNIE: I just pull up in Hoboken where my friend is, where she works, there's a great pizzeria right on the corner. She gets free pizza because she does their printing services. So I meet her, she says, "Oh I'll meet you outside" So we get a piece of pizza. Oh you want a piece of pizza. All right, give me a piece of pizza. Fine. I'm an Hoboken, eat a piece of pizza. She gets a few slices. We stand on the corner. Just boom, shove it in our mouth. Wolf it down like folded by. No soda, no water. Just inhale the piece of pizza. NEIL: Is there pleasure in that? ANNIE: Yes. NEIL: Because see I always just associate the pleasure of eating with eating slowly but- ANNIE: No. Not Italians NEIL: Talk to me about it. ANNIE: It's just, this pleasure of your mouth is full of this gooey perfect thing. You just can't believe that you lived another day just to have ... It's like then I want to stay alive because it's such satiation, with just shoving it in your mouth. You're not taking your time because you're not worried there's another bite. It could just be gone. NEIL: See, this makes me feel good because I remember when my dad, after he had a stroke, he couldn't feed himself. He couldn't communicate and we had this person who would help him. She was cold and she used to feed him so quickly, spoonful after spoonful, to get it over with. I knew that my dad actually like to eat slow. I know I talked about with my sister. I was like, you know, do you think I should ask? I can't remember her name, little trauma blocked out, but to feed him slower. My sister said. "No, I think there can be pleasure in eating fast." Speaking of food, but this question doesn't need to just apply to food, what is a taste that you've acquired? ANNIE: Well, coffee, vino, peppermint soap. Dr. Brown's peppermint soap. Myrrh. NEIL: Oh wow. Okay. ANNIE: The street oil from the guys. I've grown accustomed to Myrrh, and the smells of the city, I've learned to groove on in a way. I sometimes feel in the grassy suburbs, I could sneeze hundreds of times and I just need to get to the city and it'll stop. So something about like, yeah, I'm good with the asphalt, tar. My mother used to tell me to go breathe where they're burning tar. She said it clears out your lungs. NEIL: Wow. ANNIE: She said tar ladies and never get colds. NEIL: Okay, next card. I feel really judgmental of people with a strong will to live. ANNIE: That gives me so much good feeling because I'm so tied to having to struggle to live. But the best, Jimmy Cagney in this movie I saw, I don't know what movie. It was on TCN, and he's about to run into this gunfire and he says to his partner, who was hesitating, he says, "What, do you want to live forever?" I thought, "Thank you, thank you. That's just what I needed to hear." I'm so tired of fighting to live, from the cancer and the breathing issues and just, Oh my God, that's a relief. It really is. NEIL: Next card. Life is hard, but how the pitch rises when you fill a water bottle can still be pretty beautiful. ANNIE: The pitch.? NEIL: Yeah. Is that the word for it? ANNIE: Like, how you feel? NEIL: You know when you fill a water bottle and it goes, errr? There's always that still. ANNIE: I like filling my water bottle. I've been filling it in the Britta, so I have to stand there with the fridge open to fill it and then I water the plants and it's the same kind of feeling. I like doing that. I like seeing the plants grow and it's the most pleasurable thing in my life to see in these plants growing and feeding them water. NEIL: I went away and we sublet our place. I have one big plant that really only needs to be watered every two weeks. But I had one plant that needs to be watered, I water it every other day. ANNIE: Every other day? NEIL: Truthfully, this plant, I remember one day I came in, it had wilted, after. I hadn't watered it for three days and I found myself saying out loud, "Drama queen". So anyhow, we were down in DC for a month and I was going to take the plant with me, but we had this really wonderful sub-letter and I just said to her, "Do you think you would be okay watering the plant twice a week? Totally no problem. "If you're not, I'll just take it down with me". She was like, "Absolutely no problem." When I came back, she left me a note that said, I'm so sorry but I killed your plant. ANNIE: Oh my God. NEIL: It was clear it hadn't been watered the whole time I was gone. ANNIE: Really? NEIL: Yeah, I don't think so. I moved on, but my point is, I don't get how a plant could be there in your living room and he could not see it and it could be dying over there without you're taking that in. ANNIE: When I'm someone's house and the plants don't look healthy, I register that in a big way. NEIL: What is that registration? ANNIE: Well, people could think they're so smart or hip or they make such great decisions and doing this. But if you can't take care of a fucking plant, it doesn't mean anything to me. Sometimes I can't go back to people's houses for reasons like that because I can't witness the abuse. NEIL: Plant abuse. ANNIE: Well, any sentient being. Yeah, some of the stuff I just can't stomach, to be honest. The plants dying or no one's ... You're that busy? Then what do you have plants for? Give it away. I just can't- NEIL: I hear you. Do you think of plants a sentient? ANNIE: Yeah, a plant is alive and I think communicates in ways we'll never understand. A plant has movement, responds to light, water, earth, the sky, the sun, everything. NEIL: I just have a card that's called, swallowing pills. ANNIE: Swallowed a big one today. NEIL: Yeah. ANNIE: Before I go to the dentist, I have to take Amoxicillin. In America they give you a 500 milligram pills. You got to take four. NEIL: Wow. ANNIE: They go down easy. But I had some Amoxicillin from Sicily. They were one- gram pills. They were big and I tried to swallow three times. I couldn't get it down. I had to really focused then. Should I bite it, should I swallow it? what can I try? Am I going to choke on it? Finally I got it down this morning, but it wasn't coated so it stuck a little in the mouth. I went through this whole thing with this pill. NEIL: You really have to consciously will yourself. The experience of swallowing pills is such an odd, it's not eating. You have to do this thing where you don't chew something. Swallowing- ANNIE: You got to open the back of your mouth a little bit, the throat a little bit. NEIL: Yeah. And it goes against something really basic or a bunch of things that are really basic. ANNIE: It does. Right. You don't swallow M&Ms. NEIL: Right. ANNIE: You'd never swallow an M&M. NEIL: Absolutely not. ANNIE: Never would you swallow an M&M. it would be like, what are you doing? NEIL: I had a colonoscopy recently. ANNIE: Oh, brother. NEIL: Thank you. ANNIE: Nice and clean? NEIL: One thing, I was telling a friend, I got a colonoscopy and he said, "Oh, you know, I had it. I just did one, a couple of months ago, and my doctor really commended me for how clean my colon was." I realized when I had a, because I've had to have a few because of this history in my family. Every time, they go out of their way to praise what a job, how clean your colon is. So when I was done with the colonoscopy, and I was talking to this friend and he said, "Well did he praise you for how clean your colon was?" I was like, "He didn't." ANNIE: He didn't? NEIL: He didn't, but then I got the report about the colonoscopy and it's like very formal, and it's the patient presented with an exceedingly clean colon or something. ANNIE: Which is abnormal. NEIL: Exactly. ANNIE: Very abnormal. NEIL: Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Last card. The feels-like temperature. ANNIE: Feels like. NEIL: You know how you feel when the weather- ANNIE: It feels like, yeah, that's weird. NEIL: What is the feels-like temperature? ANNIE: I don't know but- NEIL: How do they- ANNIE: But today when I felt like, before I put on a jacket, I had to go on the stoop to feel what it was going to feel like. Then I didn't do it. But I don't know how they measure the feels-like temperature. That's a sweet thought. So there's a thermometer, then there's a naked lady standing there saying, "Well the thermometer says this, but it really feels that." That should be a job for somebody. NEIL: Oh my God, to come up with the feels-like temperature? ANNIE: Yeah. Like is it a nipple hard day? Is it what day? What kind of day is it? NEIL: Okay. Annie, this is a quantification question. What's something bad or even just okay that you would take over a good thing of something else. ANNIE: All right, I'll give you a list. A bad eggplant Parmesan hero over a good raw sushi meal. A bad thunderstorm storm over a hundred-degree day. A hard day in the hospital with someone I'm close to, over being at the beach with 10 friends. Take any day, bad or good in the rehearsal room, over chit-chat brunch. A bad rant in the basement of the mental home with my father over a beautiful meal with intellectuals. NEIL: On that note, Annie, I love you. Thank you for being on the show, She's A Talker. ANNIE: She's a talker, baby. Thank you, Neil. You're my favorite host. NEIL: Thank you so much for listening to this episode of She's A Talker. I really hope you liked it. To help other people find it, I'd love it if you might rate and review it on Apple podcasts or wherever you listen to it. Some credits. This series is made possible with generous from Stillpoint Fund, and with help from Devon Guinn, Aaron Dalton, Stella Binion, Charlie Theobald, Itai Almor, Alex Qiao, Molly Donahue, Justine Lee, Angela Liao, Andrew Litton, Josh Graver, and my husband Jeff Hiller who sings the theme song you're about to hear. Thanks to them, to my guest, Annie Lanzillotto, and to you for listening.  

Neuroscience experts, practitioners, research and methods for making brain-friendly organizations and healthy individuals. Subscribe to Mind Your Noodles!   This is the sixth episode of the Mind Your Noodles podcast. In this episode our guest is author and neuroscience practitioner Christine Comaford. We discuss her SBM (Safety, Belonging and Mattering) Model, the difficulty of revenue inflection points and two tools to help employees aspire and own their own insights.   Show Notes [00:00:06] Mind Your Noodles Episode 6 [00:01:33] Christine's Story [00:09:21] SBM and the Brain [00:15:55] How the Brain Reacts [00:20:17] Looking for Role Models [00:22:16] Why Organizations Pull for Smart Tribes [00:23:54] Revenue Inflection Points [00:27:34] Two Tools [00:34:00] smartribes.com/ERA [00:35:07] Storytelling and Reframing [00:39:51] Emotional Change Takes Time [00:40:47] Start with the Willing [00:42:42] How to Approach the Organization - Smart Tribes Style   Transcript Tripp: [00:00:06] Take care of the brains that take care of you with the Mind Your Noodles podcast or we keep you up to date on the latest neuroscience research and practices to keep your brain healthy. And strategies to help your organization be brain friendly. Hi I'm Tripp Babbitt host of mine your noodles. My guest today is Christine Comaford. Welcome Christine.   Christine: [00:00:38] Thank you. TRIPP It's awesome to be here.   Tripp: [00:00:40] Well I got to tell you Christine. I've spent the last week like inside your head somehow I've been watching videos of your book The Power your tribe book which is your latest book. I've been to YouTube I read your Web site I got your mission vision values sitting in front of me. And so just kind of introducing yourself to guests and I also know that you're into story so people of of have listened to an episode by park how talks about the importance of story. And by the way it seems to be the only thing people in the neuroscience world seem to agree on is storytelling.   Tripp: [00:01:17] So I thought that maybe you could give us your story and tell us a little bit about you and how how you wound up doing things in the neuroscience world. And I'll I'll just shut up at this point.   Christine: [00:01:33] Got it. Thank you. So you know what we do first. First let me just make sure he understands what we do. So at Smart Tribes Institute what we do is could be considered Applied Neuroscience if you will. We take the latest neuroscience research and the stuff that's useful to leadership and we then map that down to very specific very practical tools and we'll be talking about and sharing some of those tools today. So we are in executive coaching firm organizational development. We do workshops consulting coaching. So we are always looking at what in neuroscience has been discovered recently what have we learned recently that is actually relevant to optimal teams to leading on a new level to applying tools to sales and marketing. So let's just kind of a quick look at context if you will. So. So when I was 13 I started studying different religions because I wanted to understand what's the meaning of all this. And by the time I got to 15 I had studied a bunch of the different religions and I said you know what I think that it's important to start to understand human potential and then it was called human potential. So I went to a program called est Earhart seminars training and they said Come back when you're 18 and I thought you know there's gotta be a way around this. So I got my parents to take EST which is you know a very and which was a very intense personal development multiple weekend deep dive where basically you're totally ripped down so you can then build yourself up internally in a new way. And my parents when they were good sports and then they wrote a letter so I could go.   Christine: [00:03:15] And I learned that life is meaningless. You have to create meaning in your life and you can. And we have full 100 percent responsibility for whatever happens in our life. And I was absolutely fascinated by that and I thought that is so great why don't I just you know take control of my life and run away and start my you know start my career. So it's a totally delusional. So then I was 16 I had a fake I.D. I ran away in New York City.   Christine: [00:03:43] Nobody questioned Tripp. The easiest way to make my fake I.D. was to go from 1962 to 1952 right.   Christine: [00:03:52] Nobody questioned that there was a 16 year old who said she was 26. I mean like there's a huge difference in appearance but nobody bothered. So I got to I got to work in a neuroscience lab then it was called a human potential lab. And so I was totally geeking out on wow what makes people do what they do. How do they form beliefs. Where do behaviors come from you know identity come from all the stuff was super interesting to me. So I started at 16 and I was totally like burnt out with the world and I like being an adult. And at 17 I took my vows as a Buddhist monk. So then I thought you know I'm going to check out the god angle because maybe that's. It's like it's not the religion angle it's actually doing it. You know celibacy vegetarianism you know vouchers.   Christine: [00:04:43] So I did that for seven years but while I was doing that I was teaching myself how to program computers. So I thought wow well this is actually kind of programming the brain which is the coolest computer out there. But let's also learn like how to program computers because sooner or later this month thing might not work out and I'm going to need a job.   Christine: [00:05:00] So because I was like going you know I think we need to go down and they were like No let's go up and out I'm like. I think Buddhism is going the wrong direction you know and they're like Oh   Christine: [00:05:12] So I was you know you know I want to go in and down and in the in the the branch of Tibetan Buddhism I was and they wanted to transcend transcend. I'm like Oh I think we could deal with our stuff first you know. So anyway ultimately I broke my vows and went to a different type of monastery which was Microsoft. And I fit right in. You know. You know socially inept and all that stuff. And so what we what I did was I kind of brought all the the the spirituality stuff and the brain stuff and there how people form their beliefs stuff. And I kept working on it. And you know ultimately I built a bunch of companies sold them or took a public and the whole time I'd been just going Wow. Human beings. There's a there's a vast universe inside of each of us like let's understand it you know cause like that's like the great frontier the Star Trek was talking about. So. So that's how it all how it all started. OK.   Tripp: [00:06:09] So Christina I've written down a couple of things here. One is under achiever and low energy.   Christine: [00:06:18] Slacker.   Tripp: [00:06:18] Oh my God you're killing me. All right. Well this is great. No. That's a great story. I do like that story. So here we go. Go ahead.   Christine: [00:06:29] So I mean that's that so. So now what we do is what's kind of cool is I retired at 40 because I was like OK I've done it I've done business I've done money you know I've done all these other things that I'm done. You know now I'm just going to like chill out and you know hang out with nature and and then my dad got pancreatic cancer and I've been by then I had been a hospice volunteer. I've been volunteering with hospice for 20 years now. Now it's 20 years I've helped 43 people die. That's why volunteer work that I do. And and I really thought you know what all these stories start to come up. So I want to understand my life like my dad is dying. You know I want to understand my life. So I started running stories and ultimately became a book and then it became a New York Times bestseller and then suddenly everyone's calling me and I'm Unruh tired. So I became unretired at it at like 41. So I kind of failed retirement. And I'm like 56 now. And just that's what we do now we help companies help their people perform at new levels with much greater engagement fulfillment satisfaction lower burnout lower stress. And people just get to see how awesome they are and the companies get to thrive and do really well. Everybody's happy the tools work great. And it takes a lot less energy you know. So that's even better. Like why get it done in 60 hours when you could do it in 40 you know.   Tripp: [00:07:58] Yeah. Boy Lot to unpack there. I feel like I haven't lived up to my potential after listen to you tell those stories although I know people like you.   Christine: [00:08:13] Well that was my path. Let me just say that you think it might not fun and glamorous now but it was freaking hard. I'm thinking about your parents at the moment. Yeah. Yeah they were good sports. My mom just passed away in October of 2018.   Christine: [00:08:28] And yeah we use these tools. You know I use these tools with Mom and Dad as they were going through their death process. So some of the tools that we're going to learn today because it just helps us shift into you know a different mindset where there isn't suffering you know. OK.   Tripp: [00:08:43] Well in the beginning of Power Your Tribe you start to get into the brain and this whole thing on SBT and I've read enough books now you know people some people are comparing the importance of social as much as even sustenance and Maslow's hierarchy saying that those are actually equal.   Tripp: [00:09:08] You know they're going so far as to say some things like that. And and you've got to start us out a little bit with the basics of the brain and the whole concept of this SBT and what that acronym is.   Christine: [00:09:21] Yeah. And actually the acronym is SBM safety belonging mattering. Okay. No problem. So. So this is just gonna be a super high level view of the brain in the context of leadership. OK so three key parts of the brain reptilian brain a million brain and neocortex that's where the prefrontal cortex is reptilian brain. This is our brain stem. This is where we have this is basically our stimulus response machine coded for safety. This is where we have life support systems breathing temperature regulation balance the reptilian brain doesn't understand quality of life. So if you touch something hot you'll jump away just automatically right your reptilian brain because it's keeping you not dead. It doesn't think of living or dead it thinks of dead and not dead. So pretty simple really pretty simple pretty darn primal. OK. So concerned primarily with physical life you know physical not deadness. OK next mammalian brain which is more our emotional. Our emotions are our emotional brain concerned with whether somebody is a friend or foe. A little bit more evolved than dead or not definitely but still a stimulus response machine coded for emotional safety.   Christine: [00:10:42] Now the limbic system the debris always talks about the fight flight freeze response is a series of areas of the brain and in my experience the try and brain theory it kind of overlaps the reptilian mammalian so it's not quite so clean as to say it lives there. But here's what's interesting and here's what leaders need to really know. The hippocampus the hippocampus in the mammalian brain which is responsible for learning and memory. It's in the emotional brain. OK so what does this mean. Companies will have like Oh I'll walk into a company. Oh what are your values. Oh just a sec and they'll start digging through their file cabinet I'll be like Wait you don't like. No your values by heart. No. I mean you know they change and they're kind of boring and you know so they're not emotional. So if we want somebody to learn something we want somebody to retain something. We have to attach emotion to it. Why. Because humans are emotional beings emotions to a human are like wings to a bird.   Christine: [00:11:40] They are how we navigate our experience in the world. And if we look at the research from Carnegie Mellon M.I.T. Stanford Harvard NYU UCLA we will see that 90 percent 90 percent Tripp of our decisions of our behaviors are driven are dominated by our emotional brain. This stuff is important we use our intellect and we think our intellect is awesome and it is but it's 10 percent of our decision making is 10 percent of why we respond the way we do. So anyway we got them a million brain and it's saying Friend or foe. All right next we've got the neocortex. Prefrontal cortex is part think of it like a like a bike helmet. Maybe it goes it goes kind of across the top of your head a little bit goes a little bit towards the back and the prefrontal cortex is right behind your head. The prefrontal cortex is where we have decision making vision language skills tool making discrimination that doesn't quite work for me judgment. We have the ability to say I'm here but I want to be there how do I get there.   Christine: [00:12:46] So if the prefrontal cortex could speak it would say What can I create so much more interesting than friend or foe or dead or not. Right. But but what we want then as leaders is all three parts of the brain working well together. So we get innovation creativity we have the level of safety that we need and when we have all three parts working together we call this the smart state. Now what happens though when we have lots of stress changing directives random acts of violence out there in the world crazy political climate you know all sorts of challenges out there in the world we often will go into what we call critter state like a little animal like a little critter stay for not dead or not fight flight freeze. Right. That's when we are in kind of reptilian mammalian brain lockdown. And when anybody listening has been under major stress you might notice that you don't have great ability to envision things. You don't have great ability to make decisions you don't have great ability with language skills et cetera because that part of your brain is shut down. So as leaders we want to get people in and keep them in the Smart State and we'll talk about some tools to do that today. Now to answer your question about SBM if we look at why we do what we do humans don't really buy products or services. You know what we're looking for out there in the world are one of three key emotional experiences safety freedom from fear certainty knowing people have our back belonging knowing that we fit in we have equal value we are loved we are cared for and mattering knowing that we are making a difference uniquely we are not a cog in a wheel we are a unique expression of our unique accomplishments are unique gifts are being recognized and seen.   Christine: [00:14:37] Achievement is here as well. So if you look at a company culture if you look at a country right. If you look at why elections swing to this side or that it's always due to safety belonging and mattering you can look at all the different models the SCAERF model the self-determination model it doesn't matter. It all boils down to three things. Why have seven when you can have three right. It's easier to remember. Okay. All right. Yeah.   Tripp: [00:15:06] So. So I thought that kind of comes into my mind and I guess maybe I start to look at myself. You know I spent my entire career learning things around statistics and a kind of engineering types of things Lean Six Sigma and all those types of things.   Tripp: [00:15:27] And one of the things that I've found over the years is that they can be totally ineffective unless somehow you're connecting. But I didn't have a method. You know what I mean. I didn't have a I didn't have a system to go through to be able to understand that the people I'm talking to needed safety belonging and all those things. Before I could even start talk to them about data and all of that is would you say that that's true. Pretty much across the board.   Christine: [00:15:55] Yep. If somebody is craving safety and they're not feeling safe. Think about when you've had that experience. Right. You're not super open to anything else. You're just trying to be safe. Right. Belonging if you feel like you don't fit in. You've had that we've all had that weird experience of Oh man I don't feel like I fit in I don't feel like I'm part of this group. Right. That's super distracting and unsettling and then mattering if we feel invisible. Gosh that's painful. You know how we're going to perform at work if we're not seen and we're not appreciated right ow ow ow. So as leaders it's really important to notice what somebody is asking for because when they're in critter state remember their prefrontal cortex is off line. So when they're in critter state they're gonna have certain behaviors that will clue you in that they are actually asking you for safety. So when somebody's in Critter state and they want safety because they're not experiencing it they're going to spread gossip and rumors spread fear. Talk about getting the heck out of here talking about exit plans. Right. Because their tribe is back to that adage you know misery loves company company they're trying to they're trying to reconcile how they feel inside and what the world looks like outside. So if everybody else is scared right then OK I'm not nuts. If somebody wants belonging and they're feeling like they don't fit in they will isolate drop communication withhold information. Right. Because they're not feeling that they belong with the other people. So they start to kind of affect belonging in those around them. So important in leadership mattering if somebody is in Critter state makes sense.   Tripp: [00:17:40] Yeah. Oh yes. It just takes me back to when I first time I was a manager I didn't know what I was doing.   Tripp: [00:17:45] You know you know and and you know 42 years ago I mean it was just kind of I don't know Game of Thrones yet to live.   Christine: [00:17:58] Yeah.   Tripp: [00:17:59] Where were you forty two years ago. Don't answer it. You know.   Tripp: [00:18:06] So let's let's finish up with mattering so with mattering if somebody has the behavior of condescension arrogance at the extreme extreme extreme mattering absence of mattering we can see bullying. So I want us to start to have some compassion when we see these challenging behaviors and instead of judging the challenging behaviors say oh wait a sec wait a sec. This person just wants safety. Let me sit down with them. Ask them how they're doing and see how we can give them some experience of safety. This person just wants belonging they're not being a jerk and withholding information they're not feeling connected to us. Let's go bring them back into the tribe mattering this person who is saying I'm doing everything nobody appreciates me this place would fall apart without me they're just looking for some mattering let's say hey wow I really appreciate your unique accomplishments you know you're unique gifts I really see as a thought leader Hey can I run some stuff by you because I really value your opinion. See we don't have to judge each other anymore. We can as leaders as leaders if we if we signed up to be leaders we didn't sign up to be taken care of but we signed up to take care of others and to help others rise up. We signed up to cultivate and elevate others. And if you don't want to do that you know leadership isn't your gig. You know I find so many people get surprised what is the take care by people what cause you signed up to be a leader.   Tripp: [00:19:34] You know that's interesting. It's. And I've been I guess I go back. You. We didn't have back in the day when I was a young manager knowledge of these types this type of thinking. I mean even the neuroscience community really a lot of the research has been done over the last decade. I mean some of that data certainly got more people you know running with those types of things. I wonder if it's how much do you think Christine that it is that maybe people don't want to be leaders because they see the leaders that they have and they said that I want to be like that ever. You know because they don't have a method they don't have this system to be able to break things down.   Christine: [00:20:17] Ok. I think that's a really good point. Yeah. I don't it's not a role model right. Hey well I don't want to be that if that's what leadership is. Give me the heck out. Here right now. Yes. And I think the more I hate to see enlightened look let's say aware conscious the more aware the more conscious we become we can start to look because we do have some good examples of leaders in the world. We have a lot of video kind of counterexamples Well I do want to be that but we have some good examples. You know we have Warren Buffett. You know we have you know we have a handful of people that can just say oh gosh that doesn't work for me. Use discernment instead of judgment. I'm going to go ahead and do this. You know we have a handful of people that are really making a difference. So everyone needs to kind of find who is their role model. And even if your role model is a character in a movie that is fine. No seriously Abraham Lincoln JF JFK I mean you know I think Meg Whitman is a great example of leadership. And you know we've got a lot of examples and I think you know Bill Gates has definitely mellowed over his years. You know back in the 80s he was not a great example of leadership. You know now he definitely is. You know Steve Jobs had his days for sure. You know we're we're hoping that Mark Zuckerberg is going to really turn the corner and you know become a stronger example of leadership. You know the line best is a little bit of a counterexample right now. But when he went along Musk manages his emotional state and gets out a critter state where he seems to spend a lot of time you know he'll be a great example of leadership. OK.   Tripp: [00:21:54] So one of the things I wanted to talk about here. Great conversation though I think this is great foundational stuff to be able to have the rest of these this conversation. But why do organizations. You know maybe just a couple of reasons why people come to Christine or you know Smart Tribes for help. Why do they pull for you.   Christine: [00:22:16] Yes yes. People come to us and one of two scenarios they want to grow and they don't quite know how to get to that next level. I mean they could keep doing it slowly creeping along but they either don't quite know to get all the way that they want to get. And you know if you need a jungle guide if you want to navigate a jungle you've not been through before because we've built companies up to seven billion dollars. And so that's a lot. Knows all that. That covers a big enough landscape for us and we've worked with guys at 1 million. But so how to actually get your people mobilize your people so that they can navigate growth and change. That's kind of the primary reason. And then secondary is when it's a turnaround situation you know or it's a integration situation. Wow. We're changing the direction of the company entirely and people are kind of freaked out or one of our clients. I mean gosh they've been they've been acquiring anywhere between seven and 14 15 companies per year. That integration alone of bringing all those people together. So it's navigating growth and change. You know it's called the executive summary. Now anybody who's doing that needs to help their people get to the next level.   Tripp: [00:23:34] You mentioned one of the things that I caught on it and you called them I think there are inflection points for.   Christine: [00:23:40] Oh yes. Type of thing yes.   Tripp: [00:23:42] Is is this a good place to talk about. Sure. I wasn't sure I didn't get enough. I may be out of the reading of the videos or I got confused so I thought maybe you could share with us what that means.   Christine: [00:23:54] Yeah and we totally geek out on revenue inflection points in our second book which is Smart Tribes. So yeah with power your tribe you're not going to see that much of it. Yeah. Power your tribe is more about human behavior whereas Smart Tribes is more about how to create a company and the structure of it so that people get in and stay in their smart state more. So we found over the past 30 years there are certain points when a company hits this revenue number it's a whole new company. And there are three things we've got to really look at the people and how we're caring for the people and helping them grow and align in a role and engage them the money how we're working through sales and how we're financing the company and how we're structuring operations et cetera. And then model business model you know if the dessert topping is a failure maybe we can make it into a floor wax. You know like how are we actually tweaking and adapting and shifting our business model to match the industry people money and model.   Christine: [00:24:54] So we've found we map it all out in Smart Tribes that revenue inflection points occur really profound ones at 10 million 25 million 50 million one hundred million 250 million five hundred million and then it goes generally with each billion or so. Once you get up to about five billion you know a couple more billion doesn't really change thing that things that much. But I want to I want to notice that anybody listening. What happens is if we don't take care of the people. Money and model components and we have this chart that shows you what you need to do in each of those areas. If you don't take care of those you won't navigate to and through that next revenue inflection point. I cannot tell you Tripp how many companies come to us and they are stuck around 25 30 40 million. They can't get to 50 million and they swirl around below that 50 million revenue inflection point or worst case they start to slide backwards. So you have to have the tools to get to the next level or you're gonna swirl or slide backwards because again how are you going to get somewhere that you've never been before you know if you don't know that the path if you will. So we have sort of four components. There's leadership there's influence there is navigating change and growth and then there's optimal teaming. And for each of those segments if you will and there are a one day workshop in the Smart Tribes methodology there are about seven tools one has six one is nine but there's an average of seven tools per per component. And some companies you know they've got there they're navigating change okay maybe but they aren't they'd navigate a lot better if they had stronger influence with their people or if their leaders were engaging in enrolling people better or their teaming isn't totally working and people aren't coming together and connecting. So there's usually an obvious kind of sign there.   Tripp: [00:26:59] Okay. So on those. So that's why they're swirling around this 25 to 40 million because they're deficient in one of these areas one or more of these areas is is that kind of what you find.   Christine: [00:27:09] Yeah. And it reflects in the people money or model.   Tripp: [00:27:13] Okay yeah. More specifically than that or more generally the people money model piece. Okay. Yep yep yep. Okay. Is there something else you want to say about growth because you're also involved in kind of helping companies with kind of their salespeople and so forth is there.   Christine: [00:27:34] Yeah. There are two things I want to focus on and I want you guys to learn two tools. So for starters what we really need to do in the workplace is we need to help people aspire. So we're cold and hungry now but we're go to the Ritz Carlton 24/7 room service Egyptian cotton sheets. So it's it's hard now but I see how great it's gonna be okay. Aspiration second is we need to help people have their own insights not leaderships insights that are handed down their own insights. So let's talk about a couple of tools then we'll talk about a sales and marketing tool. The first tool that is fantastic to help people have their own insights is called the outcome frame the outcome frame is a series of questions and the outcome frame starts with what would you like. So maybe we're looking at the problem let's start to look at the outcome that we would like. Okay. Oh and we can we can send you these images you can put them on the website so people can have a companion visual to go with this podcast. So question number one what would you like something you can create and maintain. I you know I'd like more strategic time. Okay good. Question number two what will having that do for you. What are the benefits how will you feel. Well I'll feel more engaged more energized like I'm really making a difference to the company I feel peaceful and powerful and proud and it'll be awesome. Question number three How will you know when you have it this is going to be the proof the criteria. Well I have more strategic time when I spend two hours or more each week on strategy and planning when I cut the number of meetings I attend by 25 percent when my direct reports are at leadership level five or greater.   Christine: [00:29:11] Okay great. Number four my favorite question what a value what that you value might you risk or lose what side effects may occur. Well to get more strategic time I might initially feel less important because I'll be less involved in the minutia I'll have to let go of some control maybe resist the temptation to rescue people. I'll have to oh shoot I'll have to invest time and cultivating leadership My people won't magically rise up I'll have to actually cultivate them. So question number 4 is there is the reason you don't have the outcome that you wanted. So because this Leader isn't willing to do these things they don't have more strategic time. Makes sense. Yeah well two more questions. Okay. Question number five where when with whom would you like it what I wanted it work. I want it with my direct reports I want it in 45 days. Okay great. What are your next steps. We've got to get specific here set up recurring meetings on my calendar for one on ones to cultivate leaders leadership and offload work. Determine what you need to skip implement Smart Tribes effective meetings and delegation processes. So we've got to actually spend about 15 minutes on this outcome frame to make sure that we are brain is. Firing the visual auditory kinesthetic possibly olfactory is many of the five senses as are possible. So we are stepping into that glorious future and test driving it. We're not fantasizing about it. We're saying wow what's it like in that cool future where I have this. Oh yeah I want this it's worth it. QUESTION.   Tripp: [00:30:48] Yeah. SO. SO WHAT I SEE built you building here is exactly what you talked about early in our conversation which is you're building this emotional foundation to be able to grow. Is that.   Christine: [00:31:01] Yes. Okay. Yes yes yes. And what's happening in your brain okay neural coupling. OK we're starting to step into this future dopamine Y. Right we're releasing dopamine we're saying oh this feels really good. Yeah. That that's going to start to motivate the reward oriented behaviors. If we're listening to somebody telling us a story you know the person who is hearing the outcome frame they're actually there they're going to start to mirror the behavior of who they're hearing and then cortical activity. You know we're processing facts were we're connecting parts of our brain that are called Broca's and Wernicke's areas we don't need to get on that boat but we're we're actually experiencing those sensory cues of of actually having that outcome so powerful so often I find people just look at the problem and they complain about the problem. Our job as leaders is to help them shift and focus on the outcome so please use the Outcome Frame for that. And we have to also look at how much resistance there is out there so there are seven steps to really BOOT build emotional resilience. First is releasing resistance because that way it makes room for more choice. So start to notice what the heck are we resisting. Resisting takes a tremendous amount of energy and now start to look at use the Outcome Frame. Oh but what what I like. OK. Number two we've got to start increasing rapport with ourselves.   Christine: [00:32:35] I call it antisocial media because it's not really helping people get more connected. What helps people get more connected and we know this from Alexandria Arabians research many many years ago is when we're with people physically we're seeing them we're hearing them we can touch them you know we're connected to them more deeply so increasing report yourself increasing report the others actually getting face time. Number three making new meaning start to notice when you get stressed and when you're on critter state start to notice what stories you're telling yourself oh he's so hard to work with Oh I don't like this and then do an Outcome Frame Well what would I like. We are meaning making machines and the stories we tell ourselves create are reality reality is what you say it is Shakespeare told us this ages ago there's nothing good or bad only thinking makes it so what are you thinking about something and if it's not working shift your reality and look at what you would like and start to create that name before anchoring the outcome that's more complex you're gonna need to empower your tribe to learn how to do that five enrolling and engaging others bring your safety blanket mattering they're six build tribal agility expand and keep that good change going seven. Expanding tribal power so safety belonging mattering we can use a lot four five six and seven.   Christine: [00:34:00] So if we start to notice how often do I feel good versus how often do I feel bad that will help us understand our level of emotional resilience. Everybody write this down go to Smart Tribes Institute dot com SmartTribesInstitute.com/ERA That's an emotional resilience assessment it's going to take you gosh five minutes and here's what's so cool about it as you answer these questions and then you're gonna get your answers displayed on the screen as well as emailed to you right away you're then gonna know what tools to use from power your tribe to give you a better experience.   Christine: [00:34:46] Yeah super cool super effective.   Tripp: [00:34:48] By the way I will put those in the show notes too so that people have a link to it.   Christine: [00:34:52] Okay great. And I will give you the outcome frame image and then the emotional resilience image. OK cool.   Tripp: [00:34:59] All right so we're in growth and we're talking about the outcome frame and you've given us several things to think about there and the resistance.   Christine: [00:35:07] So those are the two things that you need for growth then well releasing resistance helps you then focus on the outcomes that you want. Okay. Okay. It's not it's not quite that simple but that's a starter. Okay. You know Navigating Growth and change You gotta look out for the emotional state right to safety belonging mattering. We want to make sure that we teach everybody to tell to tell news stories that we're telling a story that doesn't feel good. A lot of companies think about this in your experience. Tripp we've all done this. I have definitely done this myself. Think about when you have belonged with somebody around pain when you have belonged with somebody around maybe complaining about something right. That's what you have in common. So you get together and you complain about stuff. So you belong with each other. I want people to start looking at how we create belonging around things that are not actually empowering. So start to look at how do I connect with others around what topics are they expansive and positive and growth oriented or are they contracting and negative and do I feel sort of drained and discouraged afterwards because I want us to start to notice that we can shift that once again. What's the story. Basic reframing. What's the story we're telling ourselves. How does it make us feel. How would we like to feel. What's the story that we would need to change there. So in reframing I want us to start to notice daily as leaders one of our clients will give me an example.   Christine: [00:36:44] One of our clients they they had a really bad quarter who really and they're a public company. So they got smacked by the stock market really bad quarter. Everyone's all freaked out and the CEO gathers every together and says Hey everybody. What an educational quarter we just had. So it's not like gloom and doom. Layoffs are coming blah blah blah. No. Wow what an educational quarter we just had. We learned three key things. We learned that we had lost touch with our customers. They want upgrades to our product more often. We have learned that we have competition that we didn't take very seriously. They're nipping at our heels. We need to innovate faster. We need to increase our expand our product lines. And we learned actually that we have a handful of advocates that we've been ignoring. So in this next quarter we're going to tackle those three areas. We're going to get back on top. How great that we learned these lessons. And yeah it was painful but we got him we got him. Now let's take this next quarter and Rocket. Susie Q is going to own this initiative. Bob's going to own that initiative. Juan is going to own that initiative. Boom everybody knows what team they're on. Let's rocket instead of Oh my God it's a scary bad quarter. We're gonna do layoffs we suck and get.   Tripp: [00:38:08] This is actually a good segue way into kind of my next question which is kind of the purpose of this podcast is I come from a background of systems thinking which I know you're familiar with because I read where you talked about Peter Senge he and why you probably your mission vision and values just together.   Tripp: [00:38:28] And so so one of the things that that is part of actually my method which I call the 95 method is mostly about having method which can be so so in other words if I've got so far as I'm I to you talk you go for these things for growth for innovation there is this mindset that needs that you need to have but when you have that mindset you still need a method correct. I mean in order to.   Christine: [00:39:00] Oh yeah.   Tripp: [00:39:01] So. So from a method standpoint I do a podcast with a gentleman by the name of Doug Hawes worked with Disney and Procter and Gamble and Nike and and companies similar to you actually.   Tripp: [00:39:15] But he just focuses on innovation. He's the he's the big idea guy and an end-to-end system for. For doing it. And you know as I hear you talk. Lot of things I think I'm trying to get to is because I'm so method oriented and you play a method for kind of the brain is how how do we design in some of the stuff to build a brain friendly organization. How how how do y. Yeah you did so so that it's in need into the way that you've got your company designed.   Christine: [00:39:51] Ok well I have to tell you it doesn't happen overnight. And what we do when we do our leadership acceleration program is it's for one day workshops eight webinars. Thirty micro learnings which are a little short baby videos that people share with their teams and it takes about a year and a half. Mm hmm. And then the culture is absolutely transformed and I have to go forward before you know the outliers. Yeah we have had a few enormous companies where it took two and half to three years because it was enormous and we were transforming thousands and thousands of people.   Tripp: [00:40:25] But you still have the mindset began that that I heard and one of your videos I believe. Yeah. You talk about you know sometimes we just go in an organization will start with a team just a game. Yeah. So you see you're kind of breaking you're breaking down the elephant and if I get to you the whole elephant I go to it one by the time. So you're still taking the approach of let's start with an area or something like.   Christine: [00:40:47] Yeah because you've gotta it is sometimes it's too big to eat the elephant right. And so a client will come to us and they'll say OK help us with this you know group leaders and we'll start to see positive change and then everybody else would go Hey what's going on over there. How come you guys are knocking it out of the park and nobody else is you know let's figure this out let's do this. So what matters is that we we take this wherever people are receptive and we start to build a groundswell. So bottom up can often work better than top down you know because if it's top down at a huge organization. So when Procter and Gamble brought us then they had us work on their Latin American sales division. Great. I can get my arms around that. No problem you know. And we taught them a bunch of tools for connecting more deeply with our clients. We talked about safety belonging mattering for the client but we also taught them about Meta programs you know how do we step into the shoes of our client and actually feel and and understand the experience our client has having so we can message to them more effectively so we can connect with them more effectively so we can build trust much more quickly so we can actually have a profound meaningful connection instead of just you know we don't want a one off sale who wants that. You know we want a profound meaningful connection with our clients.   Tripp: [00:42:11] Ok so from your standpoint it's it's a it's kind of these classes that you have in order to to kind of build the brain friendly organization because you are in essence taking them right from where they are today. Yeah I'm trying to say OK. Because that what applies over here to Procter and Gamble isn't going to necessarily apply to Nike because they have different systems if you will. So you have to take them kind of. From that spot.   Christine: [00:42:42] Well we'd just Sec. They have but they have humans. Yeah. So we always look at what the business challenges and you know like the top three business challenges. That's where we know where to start. Okay. We're gonna start with optimal team stuff that optimal teams tools. Oh we're gonna start with the influence tools over here. So we look at what the what the greatest opportunities or challenges are at the company. And that's the tools that with that we start with you know and sometimes they just want transformation in that one area so they'll only get the tools in that area and that will be enough you know or they'll come back to us a year later hey you know we're ready for for some more tools. The way that these really get ingrained and this is why we have the workshops then the webinars in between the workshops and then the micro learnings so everybody in the company can watch a five to 10 minute video for each of the tools and learn that you know there are 30 to micro learnings you know the average bear in the company if they want to learn these tools they can't you know it's a scalable way to do it. And you know it can also be a great tribal thing where people come together in the lunch room and they watch one of the videos and they practice with the tools and then we give our clients all of the graphics and you'll walk through the halls of some of our clients and you'll see or at least in the meeting rooms you'll see our key infographics describing the Outcome Frame or myelin Asian or maneuvers of consciousness or reframing or cultural game plan or safety blocking mattering. You know you'll see our different diagrams. The emotion will you'll see better programs you'll see these these graphics so that people remember to use the tools because it's really helpful to have them in our environment.   Tripp: [00:44:22] All right very good. Let's now get a kind of interim phase here and we call it kind of the hot potato phase which is fitting. So so I am deeply embedded in the philosophy of W. Edwards Deming which we kind of emailed back and forth a little bit about and sectors I wrote some things down and it just there. There are things I'd be curious what your perspective is on. And the first one of that I want to talk about with regards to Deming philosophy is this concept of drive out fear. So one of his 14 points was drive out fear and you write about this in Power Your Tribes which is you know there's a lack of trust in in order to drive out that fear. Can you come in a little bit about how you drive fear out of organizations.   Christine: [00:45:13] Yes and fear. I find that many leaders you know are scaring their people into mediocrity. And we're scaring them and sending them into critter state. Not intentionally but we're scaring them with incomplete information with not making it safe to experiment or fail. Right. Public beheadings. We're creating fear by not having open clear communication having conflict avoidance is a great way to create fear. Having unrealistic perpetually unrealistic deadlines where people just can't do that much work in that short of time. Changing directives. Oh no we're not doing that anymore. We're doing this well nobody told me and I'd been doing that for two months. So we create fear and a lot of ways. But it primarily boils down to communication which is why that's our first corporate value. You know our company if we have if if human beings have clear explicit communication. In my experience you can get through anything. Okay.   Tripp: [00:46:26] All right. Yeah. I like that and obviously there's a ton of stuff in here about how to mitigate that fear in your book. The second one or another one because I got many but it would just get through a few of these. But there is the mindset of that we're all taught in the Deming philosophy ninety four a five percent of performance comes down to the system that you work in and one of the things I had trouble with early on is this kind of. There seems to be there's a component of neuroscience it's very individual the focus is on the individual. They're the problem they're the they're the focus of it as opposed to the system.   Tripp: [00:47:08] Now the system includes the individual. You kind of see where I'm going with this question. So. So I'm trying to reconcile. Yeah. He's from a Deming philosophy standpoint as Deming wrong because I'm open to that you know from a perspective of could have we learned enough to say it really is the individual and not the system and there are there. There's a lot more to that obviously to unpack but I'm not gonna do I just kind of want to hear what your initial reaction is to that.   Christine: [00:47:37] Yeah well but the individual is existing within a system.   Tripp: [00:47:41] True. yes.   Christine: [00:47:43] And that system is affecting the individuals. So so if we look at I mean for us we use six logical levels of change and that's sort of the environment the system that's happening in an organization. And if we look at the symptoms that are occurring we can understand where to change the system got it. So you know the environment physical emotional you know mental space I walked into a company a while ago it was an open floor plan and you just you walked in there and I was I was uncomfortable even breathing. It's like people were so uptight about being absolutely silent. And I was like This is ridiculous. Human beings aren't absolutely silent. You know and people were emailing each other and of just reaching over and talking to each other. It was e-mailing people like right next door to them. So you know there was just kind of this tense weird environment and you can have an open floor plan and do it really well. And so environment behavior what we do a person's or a company's values really define our behavior. That's why it's important up good values that people understand because it's the code of conduct or company values capability. Those are skills our tools are abilities you know how are our capabilities growing by being part of this system. Beliefs decisions you know meaning that we make about things outside of us. They are. It is you know the world is that the market is our customers our identity the decisions that we make about ourself right the meaning that we make about ourself. I am powerful I am valued I am capable I am safe I belong I matter. And then core you know the most sacred thing to the company and you know it's not profits. The most sacred thing to the company is like how that company is making a difference on this planet. Like why should we bother working there.   Tripp: [00:49:38] That's good. No I think that as I've helped organizations you know write Mission Vision Values nowadays. There are three components that I believe that it has to have. And one of them I just added in the last probably eight years which is the first one is customer some concept of customer some concept of innovation because of the rapid pace of change that we're facing in disruption that we face today. And then the third one is the one that you just talked about which is the greater good. How do we get you know how do how do how do we tap into that now. What do you think as you were talking through that kind of made a note and maybe you can help me with a a name for this. You know there's a say in in your your talk about the system I'm thinking in terms of maybe it's more because I have an engineering type of mindset brain which is the mechanical methods the Six Sigma the statistics you know those types of things versus the emotional system. And I you know that kind of you kind of added that by virtue of what I read while I was listening to you and there's probably a better name than mechanical but I'm just trying to come up with some type of label but that you're talking about that if we're going to affect 95 percent of the performance of a system we have to also account for the emotional system.   Christine: [00:51:01] Yeah. And here's the thing. I'm all for measurement yay measurement. But if we don't enroll and engage people they aren't going to use the measurement type systems.   Tripp: [00:51:14] Agreed. Yeah.   Christine: [00:51:15] They'll mock them. They'll skip them et cetera. And they will be all for naught.   Tripp: [00:51:21] So here here's another one that I wrote down that is just you know it's upsetting but is layoffs.   Tripp: [00:51:33] And you talked about in one of your videos you talked about exile and and people being exiled from there you know from organizations or from their countries. Right. That was the worst thing that could happen to you. And now I have this series of layoffs and we're creating did we have this culture now we're going to lay off this this person one of the things that Dr. Deming talked a lot about is you know there are reasons for. Companies have to lay off if you're in the financial dire straits and it's either sink or swim. I get it.   Christine: [00:52:04] You got to do it I guess.   Tripp: [00:52:05] I think where people have difficulty today is they see the dividend go up and oh I was laid off because they were able to build a new building or to raise their dividend or you know do something that a point. And Dr. Deming was a big advocate of before you do layoffs. What's first of all talk about did the leadership take a 10 percent cut in their pay.   Tripp: [00:52:28] You know sometimes where you're having an actual leadership you know what I'm saying that hey oh well we just had to do it and we just. And there seems to be this unemotional or this you know method and having been an executive and had to lay off people I can tell you it's it's very emotional. Oh yes. Not only to you. For you know why you're doing it but. And you're basically giving the marching orders right to took that you're going at the last people but the only reason to be is because you know find out that the CEO wants a new helicopter or once a week or something like that.   Tripp: [00:53:00] I think that's where we're you know as a culture or as a society we're starting to to push back on those types of things. What are your thoughts how do how do you write are you put into situations like that or do you then you get to the point where you're so in the growth and navigating growth and all those types of modes that you don't really come up against this.   Christine: [00:53:24] Oh no we come. We come up against layoffs we come up against terminations you know for non-performance you know or God forbid you know for epic cause you know I mean these are humans right. With humans you get the full spectrum of experience. If there are layoffs we have to have. We have to have. We have to have an explanation that is fair and makes sense. And you know sometimes a division is closed you know a product line is discontinued you know et cetera. But here's the thing when we lay people off we have to have a clear communication about it that actually makes sense. But then we also have to honor their contributions to the firm. You know so you know we're discounting continuing such and such product line. We haven't been able to find an internal job for Joe. So you know Joe Joe and his team you know will we'll be let go and we want to thank them for all the contributions that they made. And we're going to celebrate those contributions are going to do all that we can to outplace them to help them find their next adventure and we're gonna help them with their resumé or whatever you know. But yeah I mean just this is business. So I want to make sure that.   Christine: [00:54:37] We're balancing it's business and we have to run a a profitable healthy business that makes a difference in the world. And that does sometimes mean that people have to be let go for a variety of reasons. You're not going to have a culture with high employee retention and high employee engagement. If you're doing random layoffs that don't have stories that make sense.   Tripp: [00:55:05] Good answer. I'm going to ask one more question then I'll get to my last question. Great which is around who does and rewards one of the things that Dr. Deming railed against was the concept of quotas versus rewards. And as we've seen like with Wells Fargo and a number of other companies over the years Sears I think with their automotive repair business too. But you don't have to look far too tough to find bad behavior with regards to how those drive certain behaviors within organizations. How do you we know rewards people want rewards. Right yeah. I I've I've read in your book where you've talked about the emotional is greater than than the reward that you get. And and people are more involved with winning career path and public recognition that then rewards. But just that this this concept that you know especially in the US to be win because of Deming came back to the U.S. from Japan it's basically boy rewards are killing us here. You know there people are doing dysfunctional things to hit their quarterly goals so that their price will go up. Those types of things how do you how do you what are your thoughts on that.   Christine: [00:56:20] So I do believe in rewards and consequences and consequences just you know if you drop the ball there will be a consequence there won't be a punishment there won't be a shaming you know but there will be a hey you know Are you OK you know and walking through we have four questions that we walk people through. If somebody you know has an accountability challenge and they drop the ball. But but I find you know one of the greatest problems with quotas is that people don't provide what these sales people for example truly need in order to meet their quota or worst case scenario they actually cap it. You can only make so much commission which is insane because if you have a salesperson that wants to sell like crazy let them you know why would you ever want to mess that up. So I think we like to use needle movers that the minimum acceptable performance because you have to tell people what you expect them to perform you know where how you expect them to perform the minimum acceptable. Rawlence The target is what you want them to hit. The mind blower is wow you know if if we can hit this number that's really amazing at NYU. Emily Balcetis actually did some research at NYU where she also used three levels of goals if you will.   Christine: [00:57:34] She called it something like easy moderate and impossible. I don't like the word impossible because I don't think that it's actually Tripp. But what she found was the systolic blood pressure which is our our readiness to act was so so on. Easy OK high on moderate on the middle one that we would call target and then a little bit lower on the one that she called impossible. So what does this mean. This means that our focus and our readiness to act works is stronger when we actually have three goals three levels of a given goal barely acceptable. What we really want and will if we knock it out of the park. Because when you have this you're going to get the what we really want. One of the middle but goals are often set in a binary way achieve this you know or you're in trouble. And the brain doesn't like that the brain can actually we perceive goals as spatial as psychological as physical. The way the brain deals with goals. So when we have these three levels we can actually move. If you look at what's happening with people who use these three levels we actually move the perception of that goal closer it feels easier and we can imagine achieving it more effectively.   Tripp: [00:58:51] Okay. And just that just to come in I know Dr. Deming comment with regards to quotas what is our targets even is, "By what method?" So you know and I think that's you we're getting there. There's probably a longer conversation associated with that but that because that's guess that's a good start. So my last question to you Christine is this Is there anything that you during the course of our conversation that you'd like to make some clarification of. Or is there anything that I didn't ask that you wish I would have more.   Christine: [00:59:22] Good for now. Ok. But the executive summary is leadership is a privilege it is our great good fortune as leaders to have amazing people to work with so please invest in your people look at their emotional experience help them. The better emotional experience so they can give you the performance that you want. Everybody wins.   Tripp: [00:59:43] Fascinating stuff. Please get Christine Comaford's latest book Power Your Tribe. We appreciate you being a guest on Mind Your Noodles.   Christine: [00:59:53] Thank you. And if you guys want to get our regular tools that we send out monthly go to work with s t i. Dot com and you'll get little goodies from us every month. Work with SETI dot com.   Tripp: [01:00:08] Very good and we'll put that in the show notes also. Thank you again Christine.   Christine: [01:00:11] Thank you.   Tripp: [01:00:12] Bye bye.  

How do you see money? Do you see it as dirty? Do you see it as your friend? In this episode, Nikki Hartley teaches us how to develop a positive relationship with money. Nikki is a Meditation Teacher, Yoga Teacher, Psychotherapist, and much, much more! She teaches at the University of Colorado. Follow her at www.mindbodymana.com and @mindbodymana.   Julie's Reiki Certification & Angel School Course 2 Days Only - Saturday, April 13 & Sunday, April 14 ONLY 6 SPOTS LEFT! Students will:  Earn 2 certifications in one weekend. Become a certified Master Teacher in Reiki Energy Healing. Learn How to Communicate with Angels and Loved Ones (and bring through messages). Develop Your Spiritual Gifts. Learn Energy Healing. Receive Supervised Practice. Become a Jancius Angel Energy Advanced Practitioner which gives you the ability to work on clients (and accept payment from clients) after level 3. Learn more & register for the Course at:  www.jancius.com/courses   Continue the Conversation on Instagram! Follow Julie, then ask a question on social media and Julie may answer it on the podcast! Or she might just ask you to be on the show! Instagram: www.instagram.com/angelpodcast/ Facebook: www.facebook.com/angelpodcast/ YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCLOL5Dgsssv7A4C7SLvyqWg?view_as=subscriber   Be on The Show Want to record a session for the podcast or tell a story about your loved ones coming through from the Other Side? Have a story about Angels helping you? Email us at: juliejancius@gmail.com   Meet Julie in Person! Blonde Boutique in Glen Ellyn April 11, 2019 from 6 - 10 pm Julie will be giving mini-Angel Message Readings that night! Blonde Boutique Website Blonde Boutique Instagram   Prayer Jar Add your name (or the name of a family member/friend) to Julie's prayer jar, and she will pray for you/them every morning. All you have to do is subscribe on Julie's website:  www.jancius.com   Show Notes *Show notes recorded by Sonix.AI. I know it's not the best transcription, but being a mom too, I don't have time to go in and edit it! If anyone wants to volunteer for this job, let me know! : ) [00:00:00] Hello friends. It's Julie and I am so excited because I have a dream coming true right now, and I am so excited to share it with you. So for the last couple of years I've been daydreaming in my meditation.   [00:00:14] I've been going into it and seeing the words Angel school. It's something that spirit has really brought to me and it's really coming to fruition. So I want you to know about it. Through this angel school that I'm going to be starting in April. It's just one weekend one weekend only April 13th and 14th.   [00:00:38] Well through this angel school what you're going to learn to do is Reiki and how to bring through your spiritual gifts. So you will get certified in two separate things. If you come to my course you will get Reiki certification, you will be a Reiki master teacher and you will also get certified in my angel school in bringing through Angel messages learning how to communicate with your angels how to really develop your spiritual gifts you're going to learn how I do energy healing what my processes how I work with my clients how I hear from the other side and bring through those messages. Now if you're thinking, "Well that's awesome Julie, I'd really like to learn that but I don't think I want to be a Reiki teacher." That's OK. You don't have to go into this full time. You don't have to make this your profession. There are so many people out there who just want to learn how to connect with the other side or themselves. And if that's you that's awesome. That's beautiful. And really this class will help you shape your life in every different aspect of your life. So really groundbreaking really fine amazing work that we're doing here and I'm just so excited to share it with you.   [00:02:00] So in this class here's what you're gonna get. You're gonna become a Reiki master teacher. You're going to learn how to communicate with Angels how I bring through messages you're going to learn how to develop your spiritual gift because as you go through this course over these two days your gifts are gonna come out and we're gonna show you how to work with them. You're also going to learn energy healing through supervised practice on other people. So working on people really helps you to understand what you're hearing and when somebody talks back to you and says you know yes. Oh my gosh you're bringing through exactly what I needed to hear. It just is so validating and it helps you really develop your gifts and you're also going to learn all the insights into how I do what I do and that is Angel School. So if you'd like more details go online to my Web site. www.jancius.com   [00:03:02] You can also email me for details at juliejancius@gmail.com. I'll send those to you. But again it is coming up soon.   [00:03:08] It's Saturday April 13th and Sunday April 14th, again that's Saturday April 13th and Sunday April 14th. So I am so excited I hope you guys are pumped too and I hope you guys go online or e-mail me to learn more   [00:03:34] Hello friends. I am so so excited about our guests today. Nikki Hartley and I have to say, even before we get started, Nikki is a complete saint.   [00:03:45] We have tried this podcast three different times and she has just worked with me on it, because it didn't work, the audio it didn't record it, and we just couldn't get a good recording. So she's back. She's still working with us. We've got great information for you today and you're just going to absolutely love her like I do. So as I just said I've gotten the opportunity to talk with Nikki four hours before I interviewed her. Nikki is an expert in many holistic fields. She's a registered hypnotherapist a psychotherapist a meditation teacher yoga teacher mindset coach. She's based in Boulder Colorado and she's even taught at the University of Colorado. She's also a mom to two young kiddos. Yeah. Nikki and I both share a passion for understanding how the brain works and how it can heal itself through various methods. So we're going to cover it all today. Nikki thank you so much for being here.   [00:04:50] Thank you Julie for inviting me. I'm so excited to be here.   [00:04:53] Yay. In the introduction what did I miss. Is there anything else that you want to share with people.   [00:04:59] No actually it sounds like you covered it all.   [00:05:02] Oh good. And you know some people like it at the beginning some people like to hear it at the end. But for people who are online right now and they want to check you out where can they find you.   [00:05:11] Oh my Web site is www.mindbodymana.com   [00:05:21] Perfect. So today we're really going to talk about let's start with the brain.   [00:05:27] The brain works how it's tied to our spiritual selves. Let's talk about neuroplasticity for those who don't know what neuroplasticity is. Can you explain it from ground zero.   [00:05:42] So neuroplasticity is when the brain requires itself.   [00:05:46] When we put in new thoughts or new beliefs or new habits the synopsis in the brain actually change and they started growing together in a different way letting go of the way our brain used to wire and think and behave.   [00:06:00] That's awesome. So really by changing our thoughts we can really change our lives. Right.   [00:06:06] Oh absolutely. When you change your thoughts you do change your life. And there's this there's so many wonderful tools to get to those changes people to see to find what resonates with them.   [00:06:19] So how did they start with that.   [00:06:21] So when I do mindset coaching I try to give various tools. One of them might be meditation. Meditation is a great tool to help people get into a different brain state. Brain waves activate differently when you're in meditation so that you can make those changes subconsciously if you want a faster track.   [00:06:41] You would use something like Kipnis therapy because you would change the brainwaves pretty quickly like immediately actually from theta to theta or Alpha and then you can use really easy things like journaling I know journaling super popular but it really does change the way that we have our external experiences because we're putting we're cementing or putting in concrete our thoughts.   [00:07:08] And then when we write it down it kind of makes it more concrete tangible like you have this more visceral reaction to what you experienced earlier.   [00:07:19] And then there are other ways that you can change brain by like changing habits like things that you do daily like if you wake up earlier and you do something differently in the morning like that can totally set the tone for how you're going to live your life and like do things the rest of the day if you start an exercise routine yoga routine meditation routine again. Let's see what else do I recommend.   [00:07:45] Because once you like once you're in it for that many days you're really concrete. How many days did you say it is.   [00:07:53] Oh I did it on but it usually takes 21 to 30 days to change your mindset or a habit or develop a habit because sometimes habits are good and you want to get a new habit. But yet 21 to 30 days typically and you have to do it diligently you can't do it once they like. It's been 21 days and I did that one thing.   [00:08:14] So let's go through some common examples that I see with my clients of mindset because a lot of these mindsets come in in our younger years right. There's different ones that we develop as kids you know sometimes if our parents don't have a good relationship we create this mindset of well I'm like them so I'm not going to have a good relationship too. Or if mom and dad maybe struggled with money. We saw that as younger kids and we come in. We say well I'm going to struggle with money to struggling with money is a part of life and some things that I find my clients tell themselves with in their mind. So how would you show people in those two instances to get out of that mindset.   [00:09:04] And that's a great question. So you basically need to go back to the brain state that you're in and the time period that that anchored in infants are typically in a Delta brain state.   [00:09:20] And so they're really connected to the subconscious and then kids between the ages of 2 to 7 are in an alpha brain state which is like they're aware but like they're really easily put into like a dreamlike state. So that's why kids have such an easy time playing pretend like you could tell your kid like pretend you're a tree and they'll pretend they're a tree and then like hours later they're like I'm still a tree.   [00:09:46] It's because they're in that alpha type brain state where there's a ton of creativity happening and then around 12 they slip into beta which is where there's a huge range and beta brainwaves from know normal awake state to like really high functioning beta where you're stressed out. Anyway as I say all that because in those alpha states between the ages of two to seven is when that pretend stage is happening and if they see negative external circumstances or they hear negative replies or they get negative feedback that kind of starts to anchor in their belief system and they play pretend I use air quotes that reality. So if they have a lot of hardship they have a lot of trauma they have a lot of difficulty they might be resilient because they're not going to really fully understand reality because they're in that create the Alpha Brain Wave like a different reality but it's still going to set the tone for how they're going to behave later. That's why kids everyone's like teenagers are so difficult while teenagers are mimicking and acting out now when they gain the autonomy to what they saw in their early life. And then when we become adults we still have the ability to do like change things and see things like shiny objects so we distract ourselves. So to change the beliefs about money you really have to create a new belief and a new habits and how money comes money can come from source or all that is or the universe whatever your higher believing belief system is from an infinite amount of ways like we try to control how we receive money right we go to work we get a paycheck and then if you run out of that paycheck you're like I'm out of money or there's not enough money or there's always all these bills coming.   [00:11:42] While that may be true but then you're closing yourself off from trusting that money can come from an infinite amount of ways more than we are aware or allow ourselves to believe.   [00:11:55] And so we really have to start opening our belief system to the idea that money doesn't have to come from a job. Money can come from any place and then we have to change our relationship with money.   [00:12:10] You have to start believing that you're worthy of money that your frequencies are going to attract money and if you're living in these lower vibe frequencies like a fear mentality fear based lack struggle then you're going to push money away like source is not going to bring in these things because it's you're putting out the energetic frequency if I'm scared of it or I'm not and I'm not worthy of it or I'm not good enough for money doesn't like me.   [00:12:41] So you have to create a different energy. I mean money is just energy.   [00:12:44] It's like we can spend money without actually holding it. You know we have debit cards and or we can have the tangible money like that we hold in our hands. However it's all just numbers and digital and like it's just an energy exchange right.   [00:13:00] It's just an energy exchange. So you have to change the relationship with money and become friends with money and you hang out differently.   [00:13:07] And like you might spend something. That's why people always say like you get more by giving. And it's so true because when you have more to give or you have this energy of like I have this in abundance then you seem to always have enough and more than enough because you're able to share.   [00:13:25] So really changing your belief system about money changing your ideas of how money works and then creating new habits of how you interact with money are going to 100 percent change the relationship. In the money that comes to you and there's plenty of different ways to do that again you have to find what resonates with you.   [00:13:48] Some examples off the top of my head. Some people like to use old checkbooks and write themselves like a paper check. And then like they deposit it again air quotes deposit it mentally in there.   [00:14:03] Like thinking they deposit it not in real life. Yeah I know what you're saying. I'm just making sure everybody else knew.   [00:14:09] Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Or like some people even create a web of a spreadsheet like income spreadsheets online like in Google Docs or something and everyday you deposit fifty dollars and you're like got fifty dollars and so you're just open to getting the 50 dollars not controlling where it comes from. Some people leave money jars around the house and like if they get changed and the like drop it in one jar they have cash they'll drop it in another jar if they have a check they'll put it in another jar and then you just visually see this abundance of money all around you.   [00:14:42] I really like that one. I think I'm going to use that one.   [00:14:47] You really are like wow I have all this money I'm never in black I always have enough there's money all around me all the time because you can put the jars in different rooms and another one would be to spend money like you already have it. That one is a little tricky because if you're still on that real fear based mentality and you haven't really shifted into the trust of the universe bringing you money from infinite amount of ways then if you go out and put a bunch of expensive stuff on your credit cards if you're in that fear based mentality then you're just gonna be in debt.   [00:15:24] So I suggest if it's an old anchored belief and they've been dealing with money struggle for a long time. Start either with the checks that you write you know you hypothetically write yourself the spreadsheets or district collecting change and put it in the little jars the little money jars throughout your house.   [00:15:46] Yeah because we you know it's interesting. What. And you know I love the analytical part of me I love you know the woohoo and this is probably too analytical for the Lulu.   [00:15:58] But you know one of the examples that I've seen is you know without even any names or who anybody is. But I have somebody who came to see me who said you know here's the situation where about three months away from losing our house.   [00:16:16] So my husband says I know this money is coming I feel like it's coming but I don't want to sell the house I don't want to sell the house but the message that had been coming through to her the entire year that she had been coming to see me was sell the house sell the house and I said Have you sat down to look at the finances. And she said no I don't want to look at the finances. So I think you know I totally agree I totally believing and having that mentality. But at the same time we can't totally turn like this blind eye. She even threw back at me she said you know well I went to see somebody else and they told me that I'm going to win the lottery. So I'm just thinking I'm winning the lottery. And I said you can't. Now look at your finances you can't not. Has she said My husband wanted to sit down with me my husband wanted to sit down and she won't sit down and look at it. So what was spiritually shows me is we have to give 100 percent and then they give 100 percent right. If we're not given that hundred percent and we're not open to the truth of it all to me it just gets a little dicey.   [00:17:32] Oh true and it sounds like she was still being fearful around looking at money instead of being like all right friend let's negotiate. Let's see what you have to bring to the table and then how can we work together. It sounded like she's like Oh no I'm just going to avoid this and hope it goes away or solves itself. And you're right. So when we are really upfront and honest and like we look at a situation that might be uncomfortable or unpleasant regarding money because we do live in a society where we need money most of us do to like pay our mortgage or pay our car payments or the utilities food.   [00:18:10] When you actually look at like how that relationship's going if you're telling money like I don't deserve you all I know is there's not enough of you to go around and you make me upset and all you do is cause stress in my life.   [00:18:24] And that energy exchange is going to be really difficult. It wouldn't be the same as if you treated another human that way. Right. So if you were constantly like this is my friend this is my roommate we live together. But every time they're around they totally freak me out. I don't really like them here. I don't feel like I deserve a roommate because I'm totally messy and they probably don't even like living with me like then you're gonna have a really strange relationship.   [00:18:53] Everything in this world in this universe is an energy exchange every single thing. So change your relationship with money change how you interact with money change how you think about money change how you have a relationship with money the same you would do with a human or a pet or your garden. Have you seen those videos where people like talk to plants and like they're really mean to the plants and they're like you're ugly you're worthless and the plant dies. Yes same thing. It's an energy exchange like there's something really powerful with words obviously but that energy that's there behind it.   [00:19:30] So you did this with water and rice too and the rice that was in the water that was spoken mainly and negatively too grew mold done it. Whereas the other one didn't. It's it's amazing it's so fascinating.   [00:19:45] So if you're talking ugly or thinking ugly about money what do you think's going to happen. It's going to shrivel up and die and grow mold or it's going to stay away from you.   [00:19:57] So don't do that.   [00:19:59] Talk to money like your best friends. Like I love you so much. Let's hang out. Let's go have fun together.   [00:20:04] Yeah well I did. That is interesting because you know I'm still doing some work on this myself but I tend to see it as dirty.   [00:20:13] Yeah.   [00:20:13] And in the spiritual like the things that you and I do we feel and because of our backgrounds I think that there is a little bit of residual belief or guilt behind money and receiving money for helping others when our gifts are so natural we think like oh I should just help everybody freely from the kindness of my heart. And that would be great if we could pay our bills in kindness.   [00:20:42] Yeah. And you know and I do eat.   [00:20:44] That's so true because that happens quite often actually people call and ask for a free reading and you know I would love to be able to help as many as people as I can and where I can I do provide discounts to people if they really do need that help and they reach out to me. But I have to be able to contribute to the monthly income. Otherwise we're in a deficit every month.   [00:21:09] True. And when I went through my Reiki master training I was living in Hawaii and I had the most amazing reiki master as my teacher and she told me in Reiki is an energy exchange. It's a Japanese form of energy healing. However if what you need whatever you need.   [00:21:29] We always try to take care of ourselves and whatever you need for the other person to receive the highest benefit from you is what you should receive. And Dr. Tsui the man who is responsible for creating reiki and bringing it over here. He even wrote recognize that in his own teachings he was trying to help all these people by giving them reiki and healing their energy and improving their lives.   [00:21:57] And he realized when there wasn't a good energy exchange that they resorted back to who they were and they went back to living in a lower frequency or going back to committing crimes or living on the street because they didn't value his offerings. And so the good energy exchange whatever people decide to put on it if it's if you if you feel good about doing the job and they feel like they've invested in themselves that's a better energy exchange so that both people benefit. Otherwise if you do something for free and you're kind of like miffed about it like this isn't serving me I don't get anything out of this the attitude you're going to bring to the situation is I don't want to be here and then you cut yourself off from source.   [00:22:47] Right. Right. That's true. Let's talk about vibrations a little bit because you know one of the things that we talk about on this podcast and one of the things that Spirit shows me is where we're touching on this but I want to go deeper into it.   [00:23:01] So when we talk about human being the humanist is the body the beingness is the soul the body has one set of vibrations or frequencies to it and we can optimize those frequencies to be of its best health. But that's not what we're talking about today. I want to talk about the soul and the different set of frequencies vibrations that the soul has to it because what came out about in our conversation and I think really what I've been searching for since my dad passed away and I got into this is I can tap into this higher frequency through my crown chakra and I've taught so many people how to do this too.   [00:23:45] I really feel like it's a huge component of the work that I do.   [00:23:52] And aides called so many different things right. I mean they think that this is what Eckhart Tolle is talking about when he calls it a Power of Now. You know people are calling it so many different words and terms but you had mentioned alpha beta and theta states. And what I'm wondering as I'm bringing this knowledge to our listeners I want to talk more and more with people who are scientifically knowledgeable about this wondering if I should go to one of the scientists out there who are studying Alpha Beta Theta states.   [00:24:28] Is it a theta state. Is that with that frequency is.   [00:24:32] Absolutely.   [00:24:32] So when we I think I mentioned this a little earlier but the average person when they're awake is running on Beta Beta is our conscious state and there's a huge frequency range and Beta 2 where you can be like reading a book that's a relaxed beta state and then the next level would be like learning where you're engaged you're a little bit more aware and alert but you're taking processing information you're taking it in.   [00:25:02] Then there's high beta where it's survival fight or flight cortisol pumpin like you are stressed out like there's a bear chasing me.   [00:25:12] Now most people live somewhere between that learning and engaged beta state which is like the medium one to like even a high beta states where they are just like my job a stressful family stressful traffic is stressful paying my bills stressful stressful and they are just constantly getting all the brain to pump all these different hormones and all of these different neurotransmitters into the nervous system which is called the sympathetic nervous system where they are just going to be on high alert all the time.   [00:25:47] You're not going to take an information you're going to be very disconnected and it's the lowest frequency or vibe that we can meet that is the that that is the frequency that most human beings are operating at right now within their body that is more the body's frequency right.   [00:26:07] Correct. And you can test this like if you look at a EEG machine like there's been all these tests where it's just that frequency is being emitted.   [00:26:16] And so to change that to change the frequency to change how you to put your body out of the M.S. and into the passenger seat because you really want the mind to be in control then you have to go into meditation which is going to take you to an alpha state it's where you're relaxed you know you're not you're not as stressed you're more like in a nice daydream state theta is where your brain goes into awareness but your body is asleep. You have now taken the body completely out of the driver's seat and you're in your subconscious mind. However yes you're still aware and you're really able to get into the reprogramming of the brain you're able to let go of the old habits old beliefs negative thinking and theta theta can happen if you're really well practiced in meditation or I hypnotherapy where you bypass the alpha state right into theta the body's sleep the minds are aware and you can start reprogramming when you're an alpha brainwaves. We talked on this earlier with kids where they're able to play so you get out of that survival mode and beta and you get into that creative place. That's what the alpha is going to do.   [00:27:36] You're actually functioning in your daily life while you're living. And it's it's like a meditative state but it's so much more than that it's a blissed out.   [00:27:47] Yeah. So you're aware and you're mindful that's where all the Mindful talk comes in. It's like how can I. What is Mindfulness. What is Mindfulness. Mindfulness is getting you out of beta into alpha in you're just really present really super presence of everything happening in your life and you can say things like I'm angry but then you're gonna go why am I angry. Oh because I'm sitting in traffic and this person in front of me is driving really slow and I have to be at work in five minutes you can have that analytical conversation like you would in beta but you're just more present and then you're able to stop yourself and go I'm going to get there. It's not a big deal. It's like you're just more present and aware of what's happening in your day to day life where beta you're just like I need to get there I'm angry. This person needs to move out of my way like kids or you're just like I'm angry and you say it I'm angry and you don't really reflect on what's causing it and how you can help yourself and figure out what you need. But yes. So high frequencies would be theta. Delta is when you're just completely knocked out like it's when we're dreaming asleep so Delta is that past Alpha.   [00:28:56] Yeah. So they're the alpha. I mean I'm just gonna put it in order and so be like Alpha Beta Delta and there's gamma and then theta.   [00:29:07] But yeah so theta is the state where we're aware but we're connected to that subconscious level we're connected to our higher self.   [00:29:15] We can't even get into theta with prayer or feel like if people use mala beads and they're doing their mantras. So that's a great way to also get into theta because you're getting into something bigger than you you're.   [00:29:29] That's what I tell people too. I tell people you know the first place that I ever really felt this was at church and I was praying at church when I was younger.   [00:29:38] I think I was getting into theta state.   [00:29:42] Thank you. Yeah. Yeah some people too I want to ask you about this. Some people say that when you're in state a state they describe it as you feel like you're living in a different dimension.   [00:29:54] Sure. I mean we can all have different responses feelings thoughts sensations emotions that come up when we're in a state that shuts off our external senses. So if somebody is like oh I feel like I'm somewhere else. Well that's definitely what you're experiencing. Some people in meditation they're like I saw colors. What does that mean I'm like It doesn't mean anything. You just you saw go like but you're accessing something bigger than you because you're turning off the external senses. Like I said so it feels different. It's not ignore where we're really connecting to in our inner self. And however that is displayed. We're like oh wow that's new because it's so foreign.   [00:30:39] Yeah yeah that's awesome. So let's talk about this so we have the ego like mind. Thirty thousand rapid fire thoughts a day. Not really even focusing on one thing and we we live from that ego we're really tending to live from the past or the anxiety of the future. So how do you teach people how to remove that. How to really tap into their essence their intuition more and turn down the volume on those thirty thousand rapid fire thoughts today.   [00:31:13] Good question. So ego gets a really bad rap.   [00:31:18] I thought we should tell him first tell him first. Oh my gosh. It's 11:00 11:00 a.m. right now.   [00:31:23] I don't know if you see that ego.   [00:31:26] What is that thing that you have that saying about ego isn't like the 13 year I know it is that 13 year old at the party.   [00:31:33] Yeah. So it goes like your 13 year olds like a 13 year old at the party but you don't want to leave them in charge. You know they're functional they have their purpose. They can do some good stuff.   [00:31:44] But you know they might burn the house to help I love that because ever since you told me that I think that is my ego my 13 year old self so true but ego wants to help us survive.   [00:31:56] Like it keeps us at this survival mode but it also is very self serving like what's in it for me and it.   [00:32:05] But they're such good and that like there can be moments if you don't have ego then you're gonna be taken advantage of or that you would put yourself in harmful situations or that you wouldn't really think like well should I do this or not. Like so there's definitely a place for ego however ego should like the body should not be in the driver's seat ego should be a passenger to your mind or your higher self and ego has this great way of helping.   [00:32:41] Like I said to keep us safe and like help us do what's best for us. You just don't want to leave it in charge because then you can become very self-serving like I said and you can also only think about yourself and you don't think about others. So to transform the relationship and you have that good energy exchange with ego. You want to again practice something that gets you out of the beat of brainwave state and put you into alpha where you're more creative in your more present and you can go. This is. This is safe to do and and it will then align with your values. So that ego will keep you safe but you just kind of want to like dial it back and just be like All right. I see what you want me to do here however I need to do this. It's just a very quick internal judgment that we have and we have to do it through practice. Everything's through practice. We don't become good at something immediately because we decide we want to be dialing down.   [00:33:49] Ego is best done. Yeah. When.   [00:33:52] When you have a practice where you get out of yourself when you remove the me me me me me thoughts and you're able to see the bigger picture and how we connect with everything around us then ego kind of takes a back seat.   [00:34:07] It's like OK you're in charge not me. Listen. I like that.   [00:34:13] So in order for us to come into this more in our society we're going to have to start to talk about it more to talk about our intuition and what I find is that we don't openly share with one another even like our close family and friends when we get these strong whispers in our heart when we're hearing our intuition. Why is the intuition tabu. Why don't we talk about it more.   [00:34:41] I believe it's because we're still kind of dealing with the repercussions of when people did talk about these things they were shunned or they were told they were bad you know like the Salem witch trials or how paganism wasn't a part of a religion and like we all had this very fear based idea about people who could explain things that we usually can't.   [00:35:11] However it's really funny and I know you probably get this all the time but if you talk to people one on one typically if they know like you have this gift or that you're able to talk to spirit all of a sudden everyone has their own example of something that's happened to them in their life.   [00:35:33] That is a form of intuition or spirit communication. We all have a sixth sense. We all have intuitive abilities. We just don't practice them or we feel like oh I can't tell people that I have them because people think I'm crazy or bad or charlatan or that it's embarrassing you know depending on your background and the type of community that you grew up in. So we do we really need to change the conversation that we have around it and understand this isn't an 8 thing that all of us possess inside of us every single one of us even animals are so intuitive. And when we come to that realization and have that acceptance and realize it's not bad just lean into it and cultivate whatever and however you receive messages so that it can best serve you in how you live your day to day life. I tell people all the time. Like the difference in how you receive messages. The easiest way to figure it out is yes or no. And so when you ask a question and you can ask spirit or God or you know the universe or all that is whatever you believe in like Is this good for me. And if there's something in your heart or your head where you get a resounding yes. And like everything in your body gets goose bumps and you're so pumped.   [00:36:57] That is your your soul or you're into it intuitions or higher selves. Way of saying this is a good thing to do. This is joyous.   [00:37:07] This is happy when you get those feelings where it feels like the pit of your stomach is dropping and the like you freeze up in like you feel like I can't move or I'm gonna be sick or oh my gosh I need to like hide my head in the sand or run away. That's your intuitions way of saying no don't do this. This is bad. Like stop where you are. Those are intuitive messages. Those are two physiological responses that we can get from our own intuition our own higher self our own soul. And then as you practice and become more familiar with your own abilities you'll realize that you get messages in different ways. So some of us have the gifts like you do where we can talk to angels and spirits and some of us just have knowing and some of us have visions we all have different gifts.   [00:37:56] We actually do. One hundred percent. You know what. Going back to what you said earlier the ladies who you're working with who see the color. I love that gift because I don't have it I can't see color at all. So I always wonder what would that look like. So I have them describe it.   [00:38:17] And yeah I know everybody does definitely have a spiritual gift it just.   [00:38:23] They're also different. Absolutely. And I think that's what really draws us into different types of congregations where we want to find the familiarity and we want to have a sense of community with people who do have similar experiences. That's where those bonds happen of like where that resounding like me too happens and then you have a different emotional response to your life and you have different experiences because you're able to share those commonalities. And I think that's what works so well and very different sectors of like spiritual practice. I think it can be a really great thing to find somebody that helps you cultivate your own spirituality or your own intuition or your own gifts.   [00:39:05] Yeah which is why it's great that there are so many different people out there like us that you can work with locally because it's nice to follow people like on a bigger national level. But it's also nice to have somebody local that you can actually get face to face with and really learn from one on one for sure.   [00:39:26] Absolutely. Some of my best training has come in communities and not necessarily in like a higher education setting. And it's because you're able to express your vulnerability ask questions and really be seen witnessed or heard by people who are not going to judge you and allow it allows for some tremendous spiritual growth when you are one on one and are able to have that bond that relationship that that great energy exchange. Yeah yeah yeah.   [00:39:58] You know I know we talked about this a little bit when we were talking about money but one of the cool things that had come out of our last talk was quantum theory because when we were talking about quantum theory we were talking about the realm of possibility.   [00:40:14] So I wondering if you could explain what quantum theory is to our listeners because I just think it's so fascinating the science behind it and then how it works in a different example other than money.   [00:40:30] Ok. All right. Let me see if I can do this.   [00:40:33] So quantum theory or the realm of possibility is when you have a thought and as soon as you have that thought it is now in the realm of possibility like you pictured it in your mind's eye or you have felt an energetic response to it or an emotional response to it and now it is actually a possibility if you sit down and contemplate on that thought that goal that dream that aspiration that you have created you now have action steps that you can take to attain that goal that dream in that realm of possibility and so that quantum theory uses that idea to help us manifest. So if you anything that you can perceive you can achieve and I think that's what's the really great part of using thought to help us when we cultivate our thoughts and we use it to help us manifest or to bring something into form then that's a really powerful tool. And so to think of something like That's not money that you want to manifest. Using quantum theory or realm of possibility would be so OK I can give a personal example of that. When my husband and I were still living in Hawaii we he knew that he was going to go to school somewhere but we didn't know where and he asked me really generously like if you could choose where we live where would you want to go and I was like Boulder.   [00:42:18] So the odds of us getting to actually move to Boulder rely on the fact of he has to get accepted to this program. He has to pass this program. Then he has to get accepted to the University of Colorado. Then we have to like there was all these big hurdles in the way of actually of us actually getting to Boulder. However what I did it as I was like nope we're moving to Boulder. That's it that we are going to live in Boulder. And I started probably six months before my husband went to this school so I didn't know he got accepted to this school and I'm not UC but like ah see you. But he got accepted into this program where he was going to go somewhere. We still didn't know where but I was like nope I've decided we're going to Boulder. So I started looking at houses in Boulder. I started researching the kind of clothes I would need to wear in Boulder. I started looking at jobs in Boulder. I started looking at office spaces in Boulder. I started thinking about the type of house and the type of neighborhood I wanted to live in in Boulder. My whole perception was already we're moving to Boulder.   [00:43:29] Like there's no other. That's just it. Like I was so adamant so determined so hard core believed it was happening. So my husband the whole time was just like you're putting all your ducks in one basket or whatever that expression as you're putting all your eggs in one basket. You don't know like you need to look at other places. And I was like Hush now. We're moving to Boulder. And so I I was looking on the internet looking at different houses found the house that we live in now. I'm like that's the house I want. And he was like We're not even moving for like six more months. That house will probably not even be available. I'm like No that's our house. And I started looking at it and was like oh this would our couch will go here how I want this kind of couch made a Pinterest board. I made a Pinterest board for this house. I didn't even know we were going to move into. I love it. I was fully believing this isn't this is it. So I think using that realm of possibility that thought I had.   [00:44:34] We're moving here and then living as if it already exists. That's the key to change using quantum theory live as if it already exists. Then that is how I manifested this house. That's how we ended up in Boulder. Like I just. And that's the way quantum theory works is that when you start believing in a new reality that thought that you had that realm of possibility and you live it and believe it to be true your external experiences have no other option than to match that perceived reality. So that's how manifestation works. That is how law of attraction works when you use a thought and you use action steps and start believing it already is real. That is your reality. Everything in your life shifts so that it does become your perceived reality.   [00:45:32] Yeah this came to me in a crazy way. I'm going to tell this story on a different podcast coming up soon but I was on a bus going to go on a business trip.   [00:45:42] I was in the airport I was in this huge cafe area in the airport out at O'Hare and there was no seating anywhere. This guy came and he sat right down and out. Well he asked Can I sit down next to you and I was like yeah you know come on over.   [00:46:01] I started talking to him. He was an inspirational speaker taught me all of this at a really young age.   [00:46:10] Oh cool. I know I know. So we talk a lot about this on the podcast so thank you so much for explaining though the science behind it and actually putting a name on it with quantum theory because I think it just helps to have the background info and oh there's I was going to ask you that ties into this. Oh you know I was gonna tell you.   [00:46:33] It's connecting to energy because I am connecting to people's loved ones and the other side. A lot of times they'll tell me I need the person that you're working with Julie.   [00:46:46] I need them to understand how to connect with me themselves and what they teach me and what they show me to tell you is you have to see them as if they're there right in front of you.   [00:47:00] You have to see what they look like what it would be like to look into their eyes. Give them a hug.   [00:47:06] Touch their hand and as you are connecting with your loved one who is in heaven on the other side through this visualization what you're doing is calling to their energy bringing their energy closer to you.   [00:47:22] And I really believe that because as you were talking to me what I was seeing from them is that it's the exact same thing with quantum theory. It's just with things that we want to manifest in our lives.   [00:47:34] Right. And not only is it that energy exchange then you also have the emotional response. That's why a lot of people say like even though your loved ones are gone they're still around you or you can keep their memory alive whenever we think about our loved ones even if they're not around or not just the loved ones like if you think about a new place that you want to live and a job that you want to have the money that you want to create.   [00:48:00] It's that energy exchange again like you just said. Like if you have a loving kind happy joyous response to it then you're going to get more of that. Like it's no more. It's a higher frequency emotional reality or perception like you will be closer to that loved one who is on the other side when you can picture like a moment that you had together how they looked when you saw them the hugs that they gave you and funny things that they said you're having that emotional response and that's a beautiful energy.   [00:48:37] Same with no money or a job or a place to live or good health you know like when you love your body your body responds so differently. For me I know that like I struggled for a little bit with was like doing that last ten pound weight loss after I had my second kid and I wasn't treating my body very nice like I was you know doing yoga. I was doing the bare minimum. I'll be honest. But when I really started like loving my body eating well you know I completely cut out booze doing yoga every day meditating every day my body responded and said Oh you do love me and that the weight released a lot easier and I had been busting my booty at the gym for a year and I was so mad. I was like Why am I not losing weight. This is ridiculous. I hyperventilated twice today   [00:49:32] Because my body is like but you're not ready to lose it because you're still treating me like crap. And so I just had to really change that relationship that energy exchange I was having with my body to like for it to go OK I'll respond positively now I'll give you the results you want. Also I had to believe that it was going to happen by making these changes. So I feel like we've been talking a lot and it's been awesome about good energy exchange.   [00:49:59] No I love it. You know we talked a lot about a lot of different things today but I think a lot of our listeners are at different points.   [00:50:06] You know some are beginners summer intermediate summer advanced and I'm just wondering you're kind of like I am you've read a lot. You've looked at a lot of different things. People are just getting started in this. Are there some books that you could recommend that they picked up.   [00:50:20] Oh man so many you know I really I do like Esther and Jerry Hicks I feel like that's the really good starter into the woo woo or not necessarily remote but understanding how Spirit works.   [00:50:40] I think Esther has this ability to tap in to connect that communication with Spirit. That was my toe in. And also like the alchemist. Did you ever read that book.   [00:50:55] You know a long time ago. Yeah.   [00:50:59] I think it's a great book that you can either take. It's just a really great explanation of the journey and how things unfold and manifest for higher self when we truly believe and. Yeah. Esther and Jerry Hicks are great.   [00:51:16] It's the toad don't know very much about them I'll have to check them out so they are the ones that did Law of Attraction. They coins the whole law of attraction. The secret. I feel like that's one What the Bleep Do We Know. That's also it's also a documentary and not just a book. But those are good like. Way to dip your toe in.   [00:51:35] Did you see the new documentary. This is the one I love so much right now it's on Netflix it's called Heal.   [00:51:42] No but you're the third person to tell me to watch you.   [00:51:44] Oh get out of here. Yeah it's fantastic. H e l. And if you've got Netflix it's right on there. But it is a great great documentary.   [00:51:55] Oh I'll. I'll definitely check it out. Yeah. There's a lot of different books that people can use to dip their toe in and be like. Does this resonate with me. Yes. Awesome. Take what you need leave the rest.   [00:52:06] Totally. That's awesome. So Nikki you know the other one that you really recommended and I highly recommend him to is Joe dispenser.   [00:52:16] I love Joe. I love him so much. I love his work. He yeah he resonates with me. I think just so much.   [00:52:24] Oh yeah. He's really brilliant. And I really just like his vibe his personality I like how he's scientifically explains the woo. Something that definitely and might obviously resonate with myself where it just makes it more under my little analytical mind. I just really like the way he explains how things work and how we can make that connection. Totally. Yeah. And Dr. John Cabot Zen another great guy. Turn him in. OK. I'll check it out. Yeah. So wherever you go there you are.   [00:52:59] He wrote that book about meditation really great box them as well and for people who want to find you online again where can they go. So Facebook the Graham I know kids are calling these days   [00:53:14] Is all mind body mana and then my web sites Mind Body money.com.   [00:53:18] Oh I see them. Thank you so much. Inherently for being on the show. I just really appreciate your time.   [00:53:25] Thank you so much for inviting me Julie. It's always so fun to talk to you.   [00:53:28] Oh thank you. Have a great day everyone. Friends I almost miss the best part Nicky Hartley meditation guru meditation teacher.   [00:53:40] She did her own meditation for us to try. It's about 40 minutes long so I know it's a little bit longer than we normally do but I'd love for you to sit down and try her meditation. We're going to put it up right here on the podcast. Again it's a completely separate episode so that you don't have to go through and tinker around and try and find the exact time to do the meditation. It is strictly the meditation and yet I'm so excited about it. Try meditation out. Tell us how you like it. Join the conversation over on Instagram. Follow me on Instagram at Angel podcast and I'd love for you to ask questions over there. We'll just have a lot of fun and your questions that you ask on Instagram. They might just be answered on this podcast.   [00:54:31] Thanks so much everybody. Have a great day and really open your heart to all of those unexpected blessings. That spirit is trying to bring into your life right now   [00:54:54] Disclaimer this podcast provides general information and discussion about energy healing spiritual topics and related subjects the conversations and other content provided in this podcast and in any linked materials are not intended and should not be construed as medical psychological and or professional advice. If the listener or any other person has a medical concern he or she should consult with an appropriately licensed physician or other health care professional. Never make any medical or health related decision based in whole or even in part on anything contained in the angels in awakening podcast or in any of our linked materials. You should not rely on any information contained in this podcast and related materials and making medical health related or other decisions. You should consult a licensed physician or appropriately credentialed health care worker in your community in all matters relating to your health. If you think you may have a medical emergency call your doctor or nine one one immediately. Again Angel messages energy healing and the information you receive here does not constitute legal psychological medical business relationship or financial advice. Do not take any of the advice given and any angels in awakening podcasts or sessions in lieu of medical psychological legal financial or general professional advice. 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At the very end-state, what really wins it, isn't the potential of the person, it's the perseverance. ㅤ ... ㅤ Edited by: @benlionelscott Spoken by: Steve Harvey, Greg Plitt, Footage by: Filmpac, Archer's Mark, LOCALFC, Federico Mazzarisi, SIGMA, Ivan Botev, Adam Walker, Sharon Cappabianca, Oliver Lau, Nike, Peter Menich, Archer's Mark Music: Really Slow Motion and Giant Apes - The Darkest Night ㅤ ... ㅤ Pressure does most people in. The weight of what it feels like to want to be successful every single day, over and over and over, it's just too much pressure. People crack. You've got to persevere. You must insist that this is going to happen. You got to get in there and keep fighting. You gotta be constantly at it. Everybody got to develop some dog in them. You gotta say, "I'm gonna hang in here now. I'm going to hang in here. I'm gonna keep going. I'm going to stay with it, no matter what. At the very end-state, what really wins it, isn't the potential of the person, it's the perseverance. The heartbeat of a person. That heart doesn't stop. The heart doesn't go 9 to 5 and then shutdown, it's always beating. Just like a true champion doesn't just exist in the arena, doesn't just exist in the arena, but exists everywhere else too. Those moments and inches that are won at the final hour, that make or break a win or a loss, aren't discovered there. They're discovered through thousands of hours in the training lab, when no one's watching. Do you get up and run at 5 in the morning, when it's pouring down rain? It's a person of character that values who the f*ck they are. There's no half-ass here, half-ass there, and then when it matters, "Oh I'll give it my all." It doesn't work that way. Everyone wants it, but somebody wants it more. Where does all the great sh*t that we have in our lives come from? It all comes from people, who in the face of massive adversity, decide that they're going to move forward regardless. They're going to make the thing that they want to happen, happen, no matter what anybody says, no matter how many times they get laughed at, no matter how many times they get called crazy, no matter what. They are going to make this happen. We have the ability to make the choice to be the person who rises above the sh*t. If you keep making the choice to take the things that have happened to you, and turn them into good productive things, there is no way that you cannot be successful.

Support the Marriage After God podcast by checking out our online store and resources. https://shop.marriageaftergod.com “If you will live like no one else, later you can live like no one else.” ― Dave Ramsey 1 Corinthians 10:24-27 Do you not know that in a race all the runners run, but only one receives the prize? So run that you may obtain it. Every athlete exercises self-control in all things. They do it to receive a perishable wreath, but we an imperishable. So I do not run aimlessly; I do not box as one beating the air. But I discipline my body and keep it under control, lest after preaching to others I myself should be disqualified. How do you view debt that one person brought into the marriage as “ours” especially when the two of you are on different pages about spending before the debt is paid off? What do you recommend in terms of building multiple streams of income? Publish a book - https://bookworthy.com Start a small business based off skills or resources you and your husband have Photography Painting We know many people who have made a decent income off youngliving. How do you both feel about taking risks financially? Such as investing in something that might cost a lot but also make money in the future. Luke 14:28 For which of you, desiring to build a tower, does not first sit down and count the cost, whether he has enough to complete it? James 4:13-17 Come now, you who say, “Today or tomorrow we will go into such and such a town and spend a year there and trade and make a profit”— yet you do not know what tomorrow will bring. What is your life? For you are a mist that appears for a little time and then vanishes. Instead you ought to say, “If the Lord wills, we will live and do this or that.” As it is, you boast in your arrogance. All such boasting is evil. So whoever knows the right thing to do and fails to do it, for him it is sin. Do you make a college fund for your children? If so how much do you add to it each month? How do you feel about mortgages? We are debt-free but live in NYC and seems you can’t own a home without a mortgage. Is that still debt-free? How do we not touch savings? How to tithe when financially struggling? What is your take on separate bank accounts in marriage? The bible speaks very specifically to this question Genesis 2:24, Matthew 19:5, Mark 10:8, Ephesians 5:31 The 2 shall become one. When budgeting do you allow for a savings amount for birthday gifts food ect or does it all come out of general? What percentage of the budget should be allowed for food? Assuming all food or going out? How much is a realistic amount to save each week? My husband and I are in so much debt. We don’t know how to budget. Any advice? We want to be debt-free and not living paycheck to paycheck. We have 3 boys. How should we decide what they can and can’t do because of the budget? they love sports must ect. What do you do for health ins we are self-employed would love to hear what you do. How do you navigate financial stress as a team? What do you guys use for a budget? How do you budget with kids, one income, and a stay at home mom? I want to be a stay at home mom but we are not sure we can afford it. What should we do? Do you have any advice on seeing if you are ready to go to a one income household? How do you prepare to go to one income with a second baby? Dear Lord, Thank You for everything You give to us. Thank You for our finances and thank You for our jobs so that we can provide for our families so that we can give back to You, and be generous with others. We pray we would be good stewards of all that You give to us, especially money. We pray we would be faithful to use our money the way You want us to. Help us to be united in our marriage in the way we spend, save, and give. Help us to make financial decisions with wisdom and with wise counsel. Please help us to live debt-free and may our lives be a testimony to others of Your faithfulness. May we be people who seek to use our finances to build your Kingdom! In Jesus’ name, amen! READ: [Aaron] Hey, Aaron and Jennifer Smith with Marriage After God. [Jennifer] Helping you cultivate an extraordinary marriage. [Aaron] And today we're gonna answer your questions about finances. Welcome to the Marriage After God podcast, where we believe that marriage was meant for more than just happily ever after. [Jennifer] I'm Jennifer, also known as Unveiled Wife. [Aaron] And I'm Aaron, also known as Husband Revolution. [Jennifer] We have been married for over a decade. [Aaron] And so far, we have four young children. [Jennifer] We have been doing marriage ministry online for over seven years, through blogging and social media. [Aaron] With the desire to inspire couples to keep God at the center of their marriage and encouraging them to walk in faith every day. [Jennifer] We believe that Christian marriage should be an extraordinary one, full of life, [Aaron] Love. [Jennifer] And power. [Aaron] That can only be found by chasing after God. [Jennifer] Together. [Aaron] Thank you for joining us on this journey as we chase boldly after God's will for our life together. [Jennifer] This is Marriage After God. [Aaron] First and foremost, we always want to invite you to leave a star rating on the podcast. It helps other people find the podcast, it helps people learn about the podcast, it gets us in the rankings so other people can find it, it's awesome. We'd appreciate if you could just scroll down to the bottom of the podcast app and hit a five-star rating, or actually whatever star rating you want to. And if you have time, you can leave us a text review. That'd be awesome. We read those, they encourage us, and we'd really appreciate that. [Jennifer] We also want you guys to know that this Marriage After God podcast is sponsored by our store, shop.marriageaftergod.com, and just to highlight one book bundle that we carry that we wrote for you guys is 31 Prayers for my Son and 31 Prayers for my Daughter, and we wrote these for you to help encourage your prayer life over your children, and we're really excited about these books and we wanted you to know about them. [Aaron] For the icebreaker question, Jennifer, what is one thing you would do today to get out of debt if we had debt? Because we're debt-free, but if we had debt today, what's thing you'd do right now to help us get out of debt? [Jennifer] Okay. I think the first thing that comes to my mind is I see a small piece of paper and I just write a number on it, let's say $100, and then I would take that day to go around the house and figure out what can I sell today, whether it's through Facebook Marketplace or through my friends, text messages, or whatever. What can I get rid of today to make that $100 and then send it straight to the debt? [Aaron] Okay, I like that. I'll one up you. I was thinking selling everything in the house. [Jennifer] You would. [Aaron] Well, because we have a lot of things and we don't realize how much money is just sitting in the house with your furniture, and through, I wouldn't be able to sell everything like our bed, but-- [Jennifer] No, you said everything. [Aaron] Well, okay. We could sleep on the floor, people sleep on the floor. [Jennifer] Aaron would sell everything. I on the other hand would just get rid of stuff we don't use. [Aaron] Well that's how we were when we were in debt, babe. [Jennifer] We had little. [Aaron] We had very little, but we did sell almost everything we had. I think that's what I would do. I would actually go through the house and I'd say "Okay, what can we get rid of?" And I'd probably, Dave Ramsey says it funny, he says, he says "Sell everything," and so that your kids wonder if they're next. [Jennifer] Oh my gosh, that's terrible. [Aaron] That drastic. Go through everything and get rid of everything. [Jennifer] Speaking of Dave Ramsey, we have a quote of the day by him. [Aaron] Yeah, it's if you will live like no one else, later you can live like no one else. [Jennifer] So you're living like no one else. That sounds like a Marriage After God right there. [Aaron] Yeah, it's true. It also reminds me of another quote that says if you want something you've never had, you gotta do something you've never done. I believe it's by Thomas Jefferson, but other people say they don't know who it's by. But the idea is that if you make choices today that no one else is making, everyone chooses to be in debt, everyone chooses to spend money unwisely and just buy things and to use credit cards. Those are normal, everyone chooses that. But if we choose to live differently, [Jennifer] Radically. [Aaron] If we make choices like, well, this hurts and it's painful, but no one's doing this, what it does is it affords you a life that later on you can live like no one else is living. You make choices today that allow you to live a certain way later. [Jennifer] And I feel like that later comes so fast, just in the scheme of life. [Aaron] Life does fly by fast. [Jennifer] It might seem hard now, right, but this season is so short in comparison to the rest of later. [Aaron] Yeah, we have, I remember our season getting out of debt. In the middle of it, it was so daunting. [Jennifer] It seemed like a long, drawn-out thing. [Aaron] And it was like, this is never gonna get done. [Jennifer] But it wasn't. [Aaron] But now it's been behind us, what? [Jennifer] Eight, nine, ten years. [Aaron] Ten years. That was a long time ago. We've been debt-free for ten years now. [Jennifer] And we're living in the later. [Aaron] We're living in the later, so yeah, we get to live like no one else now because we made choices that no one else was making back then. And I remember people thinking we were weird. We didn't have much. We had actually nothing. But I wouldn't trade it. [Jennifer] Yeah, I don't regret being debt-free. [Aaron] We encourage other people all the time. We're gonna do it a lot in this episode actually. [Jennifer] Yeah, so speaking of this episode, we thought it would be fun to answer your guys' questions on finance. We pulled on Instagram Live and just asked you what kind of questions you guys had about money and budgeting and all kinds of things, so today's episode we are going to focus on your questions and trying to answer them. [Aaron] Yeah, so each one of these questions is from someone who follows us. And we're gonna, we don't have all the answers. [Jennifer] Nope. [Aaron] We will answer the best as we can, we'll answer with scripture if we can, we will answer from experience, and we might say we don't know on some of them. Because I'd rather say I don't know than make up an answer that is false. [Jennifer] Yeah, and just right off the bat if we want to give some resources that you guys can look up for more information about finances, we do really like Dave Ramsey and just his whole ministry on helping people get out of debt, [Aaron] He's helped a lot of people get out of debt. [Jennifer] Lead faithful lives in finances, so check him out, Financial Peace University is his thing. Also, Money Saving Mom is a great resource. She has a lot of good stuff, go check her out. [Aaron] Let's start this episode. I want to read some scripture to give us a foundation of why we should even care about our finances, our money, getting out of debt, all of those things. And it's found in 1 Corinthians 10, verses 24 through 27. "Do you not know that in a race, "all the runners run, but only one receives the prize? "So run that you may obtain it. "Every athlete exercises self-control in all things. "They do it to receive a perishable wreath. "But we, an imperishable. "So I do not run aimlessly. "I do not box as one beating the air, "but I discipline my body and keep it under control "lest after preaching to others "I myself should be disqualified." And what I love about this is Paul's saying, he's saying the race we're running is this race of faith, it's the race that we're running toward heaven and with God and with the Holy Spirit, and our prize is imperishable. We're not running to get a trophy, we're running for an imperishable prize which is eternity with God. And Paul says here, he says "I don't run aimlessly," meaning he's got a specific goal, he trains a certain way, he's thoughtful about it and he knows what he's doing. And then he says "I discipline my body "and keep it under control," and again, the purpose of this is so that in our preaching, we're not disqualified. The reason we talked about finances and getting out of debt and why these are important for the Christian to be aware of and to walk not aimlessly in is because we have a job to do in this world, and it's to preach the Gospel. And part of preaching the Gospel and not being disqualified is are we an example? Do we have self-control in all things? [Jennifer] Yeah, including finances. [Aaron] Including finances. Or are we taken under by our own debt and our own cravings and desires and "Oh, I want that new car or I want that, "or I want to eat out all the time," or whatever it is that sucks the money out of us and makes us incapacitated financially. Paul wants us to know that we shouldn't be running aimlessly so we should have a plan, we should have a goal, we should have purpose in mind, and he wants to remind us that the Gospel that we're preaching, we ourselves don't want to be disqualified after we've preached it, so we need to be disciplined and self-disciplined and self-controlled. I just that'd be a good place to start. [Jennifer] Yeah, I love it, it's really good, yeah. [Aaron] With this. It's actually why we got out of debt. It's part of our story. We left doing missions work. We're doing the Lord's work, we felt the Lord calling us home and saying "I want you debt-free so you can be free," and we went home. [Jennifer] But we had a goal. [Aaron] Yeah, we went home specifically to get out of debt, so everything we did was focused around getting out of debt. [Jennifer] And I felt like that word aimlessly really stands out to me, because I feel like, because I feel like it's really easy when you look at finances to almost avoid the hardship of finances or the things that weight us down, the stress that's involved, [Aaron] Yeah, pretend it's not there. [Jennifer] To pretend it's not there or to ignore it, which leads to being aimless. If you're not willing to face it and confront it, then the other option is to be aimless. [Aaron] Yeah, well there's no goal, you're floating, you're like "Well, I'm gonna," [Jennifer] Because if you have a goal, then you're gonna be forced to look at what you have and say "Okay, this is how I get from point A to point B." [Aaron] Yep, and we have to write those goals down too. We've just been talking about lists lately. And if you write it down, it becomes real. Just a quick tip, write down your goals, how much you want to pay off, when, when do you plan on getting out of debt, and then start hitting those goals and doing everything you can to hit them. [Jennifer] And even if you have a specific strategy and you guys figure out how you're gonna do it, write that down too. [Aaron] Yep. Okay, let's go right into question number one. [Jennifer] Okay, is there any rhyme or reason with any of these? [Aaron] No, it looks like you just put them in order from what you received them. [Jennifer] Okay, let's do it. [Aaron] How do you view debt that one person brought into the marriage as ours, especially when the two of you are on different pages about spending before the debt is paid off? [Jennifer] Oh man, I feel like we answered this really good in our book, Marriage After God, because we share our different perspectives of money and the value it had in our lives, how we spent it, and this idea of debt. [Aaron] This was us. Whose debt did we have when we got married? [Jennifer] Well, I believed it was yours. It had your name written on it. But God had to teach me the lesson of what it meant to be ours. [Aaron] Yeah, and you married me, debt and all. You married me, sin and all. And we don't get to marry someone but only choose the parts of them that we're going to walk with and be one with. Now, when we have sin, those are things that need to be changed and repented of. Even the debt needs to be dealt with. There's things that need to be dealt with, but we deal with it together. [Jennifer] Yeah, so to answer this question how do you view debt that one person brought in? View it as ours, so assume that responsibility as now ours, both of you working to do it, because I'll tell you what, it wasn't until God changed my heart and I received Him changing my heart on it being our debt that we actually were able to make change in knocking it off. [Aaron] Think about it, if you would have expected me just to deal with it, while you're spending how you want. It was our money, right? [Jennifer] Yeah. [Aaron] But then if you spend it how you want, it would have made it that much harder for me to deal with it. [Jennifer] Yeah, you probably wouldn't have been able to get out of debt. [Aaron] I would say yeah, ours, and then it says if we're on different pages of spending, [Jennifer] Get on the same page. [Aaron] The reason you're in debt and having a hard time paying debt off is because you're on different pages about finances. [Jennifer] Yeah, get on the same page. That means that both of you are gonna have to make sacrifices to stay on that same page when it comes to spending, saving, paying off debt, all of it. [Aaron] Yeah, and a quick tip, make a rule. We made a rule, if there was anything over $25, we had to immediately bring it to, but when we were getting out of debt, we actually talked about everything that we spent. [Jennifer] Yeah, everything went to that. [Aaron] But now, we have rules about if it's gonna cost so much, we actually ask permission. What happens though is it keeps us both accountable to what we're spending, that it's not just like "Oh, I accidentally spent $600, sorry," that doesn't happen. [Jennifer] Okay, I think we answered that one pretty good. Number two, what do you recommend in terms of building multiple streams of income? [Aaron] This is a cool question. [Jennifer] I also feel like in this day and age I feel like there is a lot of opportunity. [Aaron] Oh, we have infinite opportunities. People make money just on social media by not even selling anything, they just they post for other people and they make money. [Jennifer] Why do you think it's a cool question? [Aaron] Well because we did this. The way we got out of debt was we started a photography business. [Jennifer] Yeah, we used our resources of what we had, which was a camera. [Aaron] We used our passion for photography and we had resources in relationships. We knew someone getting married and we were like "Hey, can we shoot your wedding?" And they said "Sure," they needed a photographer, they didn't have much money. Actually, we did that for free, they bought us a flash or something. [Jennifer] Yeah, I think the very first wedding we shot, we shot together for a flash, which she had to buy for us before the wedding. [Aaron] Yeah, and then I think we charged like $400, and I think it was like $600, and then it was like 850. [Jennifer] Each job that we got, we just, yeah, increased. [Aaron] Well we made a rule. We're like "Every job, we're gonna increase a little bit." Until eventually we were making $1,200, $1,500 a wedding, and we were working Saturdays and Sundays, shooting families and weddings while working full-time jobs during the week. [Jennifer] It was crazy town. [Aaron] Now I want to say we had no kids back then. [Jennifer] Yeah, so we were able to. [Aaron] It would definitely look different today with having kids. But it is still possible. A couple of ideas we've had. [Jennifer] Well for starters just like you said about the seasons thing, I think it's really important for couples to know that if you're gonna go into a season of hard work, meaning either both of you or one of you is heavily working, there just needs to be an end date where you're saying "Okay, we're gonna sprint this season," [Aaron] Yeah, this next six months we're gonna work this hard. [Jennifer] We're gonna work this hard and that way expectations are set and nobody can get mad at each other, and then there's a season of rest. Don't forget to give yourself that season of rest. [Aaron] Yeah, because you'll, if you just get it working nights and weekends, [Jennifer] You'll burn out. [Aaron] And all day, you'll want-- [Jennifer] Your family will burn out. [Aaron] You don't want to do that. It's a good reminder, and that's how we've always looked at it, we did the photography thing for a season, it was a year and a half that we did it and we crushed hard at that, we were doing so much. By the end of it we hated weddings. [Jennifer] But it was fun. [Aaron] It was super fun, and really hard. We got out of debt though. The idea is, we have a few ideas. The first one that we have is publish a book. We make a living now off of books that we've published. And we learned how to do it on our own, but one of the little things we started a while ago is called bookworthy.com, it's a course Jennifer and I made, teaching people how to self-publish, so if you're interested and if you're a writer, if you have children the book idea, if you do art or photography, publish a book, you might be able to make a little bit of money on Amazon. It's actually free to do as long as you have all the time and energy and the talent to do it. Another one is start a small business based off skills or resources you and your husband have. Like our photography business. [Jennifer] Yeah, another one would be painting. If you like to paint, you can sell canvases of different things that you like to paint. [Aaron] Yeah, or if you have some tools for painting. I've known people to paint houses and make really good money on the weekends. Doing handyman work, there's so many things that we have skill-wise that we don't realize is actually valuable. There's someone who needs what we have. Maybe as a couple write down the resources, the talents, the skills that you have and see how those can make money. [Jennifer] And you can utilize places like Etsy.com as a venue to sell your stuff. [Aaron] Yeah, we know someone that they just were really good at sewing little bows and start an Etsy store and sell a bunch of bows! [Jennifer] We also have people who've made a lot of money off, there's a lot of companies out there that have great models. Things like Young Living. [Aaron] Yeah, they've made it really easy to sell anything. Those are just some ideas. There's so many, so many ways to do it. But having a small business or doing some sort of side jobs it's how we paid off all of our debt. And it does add levels of complexity to your life, but it's totally doable, and it's sometimes the only way to get out of debt. If your normal job doesn't afford your enough financial liquidity to pay off debt, doing a side business for a while or a side job can definitely do that. [Jennifer] Okay, moving on to number three. How do you both feel about taking risks financially? Such as investing in something that might cost a lot up front, but also make money in the future. Which there's no guarantee. Let's just be straightforward. [Aaron] We always get told that, like this is a no-brainer, you just gotta start it. We always tell ourselves the best-case scenario and we don't think practically through it, so I just wanted to read Luke 14:28 says "For which of you, desiring to build a tower, "does not first sit down and count the cost, "whether he has enough to complete it?" And I just wanted to remind us that wisdom should tell us "Okay, that sounds like a great idea, yes," because it could totally be profitable to spend a little bit of money now, if you could figure out that it's going to double or triple or whatever. But we gotta count the cost. What's the time investment it's gonna take? What's the financial investment it's gonna take? How long will it take to return that? How much time is it gonna take to maintain and build and grow? Those are all things that we have to think about when trying to take a financial risk. And then the, we've done this before. We've been really frugal in the past and avoided any sort of risk and we've also made mistakes in risk. And what would you say is the better side of it? [Jennifer] Well like you said, counting the cost. I think it's always really important that we sit down and figure out how this will benefit our family or how this will hurt our family, and I think the times that we've made mistakes or the times that we don't really count the cost, [Aaron] Yeah, and we rush into things. That's been my fault, many a times. [Jennifer] Well, I wasn't going to point the finger. [Aaron] Yeah it's all right. [Jennifer] I was gonna say out of the two of us or how, because the question is how do you both feel about it, how do you feel about taking risks financially? What's your process? [Aaron] I'm usually pretty safe, but I have made mistakes and it always comes back to I don't fully think through it, I tell myself the best-case scenario, and often it's a rush. And so now we have these rules of it's a rush, it's a no. For the most part. There's been times, but usually if it's a rush, it's a no. [Jennifer] Yeah, when I think about this question, I think "Well, if it's a risk for some sort of investment "or stocks or something like money-wise that way," I always get really nervous and I'm like "Nope, I won't do it," but when it comes to a risk of taking a risk on someone or somebody's talent, one of ours, something that we have a dream to do, that's easier for me to say yes to, even if we waste a lot of money doing it. I don't know why, but there's something in my heart that just says "Let's go for that." [Aaron] Yeah, and if it could be a slow and minimal risk, that's always, what we try and do is like how can we make this as little of risk as possible? Like if we're gonna work with a new company that's gonna print our books or advertise for us, or whatever it is. It's all risk, technically, because they can mess up. You could buy the wrong thing, you could spend the wrong money, it just-- [Jennifer] Would you say that it would be wise to also seek counsel on certain decisions, like maybe those close friends that you have, or-- [Aaron] Oh 100%. Getting many wise counselors around you is the way we do battle and we win battles. I just wanted to read one more scripture on this. James 4:13-17 says: "Come now, you who say, "today or tomorrow we will go into such and such a town "and spend a year there and trade and make a profit "yet you do not know what tomorrow will bring. "What is your life? "For you are a mist that appears "for a little time and then vanishes. "Instead you ought to say, "If the Lord wills, we will live and do this or that. "As it is, you boast in your arrogance. "All such boasting is evil. "So whoever knows the right thing to do and fails to do it, "for him it is sin." I just wanted to bring this up because the other side of this is to remember that we have no control over tomorrow. We don't know. I could invest today and the Lord can come tomorrow. We can, doesn't mean not to, but James is telling us less have a heart of like "Well if the Lord wills it." We're gonna work, we're gonna plan, we're going to count the costs, we're gonna get counsel, we're gonna figure things out, but to be honest, if the Lord wants it to happen or not. [Jennifer] The other thing I want to add to this section about taking financial risks is you guys gotta be in unity when taking financial risks and don't, not at the cost of your marriage. I don't want people to jump into making decisions that, one spouse is for it, one spouse isn't. I really think that there needs to be unity whenever you advance in making decisions like this. [Aaron] That's a good point. Be in complete unity, have peace about it and I would say lastly, you should not taking a financial risk unless you have some extra money to play with. [Jennifer] To risk. [Aaron] If you're literally not being able to buy groceries to risk this, that's not a good strategy. [Jennifer] That's good. [Aaron] It may mean sell some more things and say "Okay, we have this extra $1,000, "we can put it towards debt or we can start this thing, "but that $1,000, if it's gone or not gone, "isn't gonna hinder your family from being taken care of." [Jennifer] That's good, I'm glad you mentioned that. Okay, number four. Do you make a college fund for your children? If so, how much do you add to it each month? [Aaron] Do we have a college fund? [Jennifer] No. Short answer, no. Do we have a little bit of savings if they needed it? Sure, but we also want to encourage our kids, just in their future we talk about college. We want to encourage them to be hard workers, that if they needed to pay for their own college they could. [Aaron] Yeah, and teaching them the abilities that they have and how they can make money. We have an IRA that we put money into that could be used for school, but we don't necessarily have a direct college fund. [Jennifer] And do we put money in it every month? [Aaron] We don't put money in every month, we put it, for a while we were but we adjust that based off of how our income is. The next question is how do you feel about mortgages? Well I hate mortgages. [Jennifer] Everybody does. [Aaron] Who likes mortgages? [Jennifer] This is specifically, this couple was asking because they say "We are debt-free but live in NYC and it seems like "you can't own a home without a mortgage. "Is that still being debt-free?" Having a mortgage? [Aaron] Well technically no, because you're in debt. But some people would say "Well it's good debt, "because it appreciates." Well sure, as long the market is appreciating. There's again, you don't know what tomorrow's gonna bring. [Jennifer] I feel like for the majority most people would say it doesn't fall under the debt-free title. [Aaron] Yeah again, so we bought a house. We got a mortgage and we did the normal thing, but we had been debt-free for seven years before buying a house. There's a season actually leading up to like six years into our debt-free-ness I didn't even want to buy a house because I didn't want to get in debt again. But you know, things change and we made a different decision and our goal was to treat that debt the same way we treated the other debt. Again, you have to count the costs and you have to make the decision that way and get wise counsel. Can you afford it? And then, because the way I looked at it is I was paying X amount of dollars for rent anyway, so if I could pay that to something I'm gonna own, that's why we decided to buy a house finally. [Jennifer] We actually put a stipulation on it. You said we're not gonna, we're not gonna even look for a home to buy if the mortgage isn't less than what we're paying for rent. [Aaron] Yeah, that was a, man, because when we were looking it gets so easy to start looking outside your range. [Jennifer] Yeah and you keep going up and up. [Aaron] Like "Well it's only another 10,000, "well, this is nicer." I don't know. [Jennifer] Are you repeating me? [Aaron] No! That's my inside voice, I don't know. But I did, I made us a hard stipulation. I said "I don't want to buy a house "that mortgage's gonna be more than our current rent." And we did, we actually hit that. It took us a long time and it was really frustrating at times. [Jennifer] And we had to be patient, but I would just like the other questions I would say you guys have to be in unity if you are gonna go into that mortgage. [Aaron] Yeah and count the costs, it's gonna be an investment that you have to put your own blood, sweat, and tears into. [Jennifer] Yeah. [Aaron] All right, cool, let's move on. How do we not touch savings? It's a pretty short question. [Jennifer] Bury it really deep in the backyard. [Aaron] If this is a self-control thing, then you need to learn self-control. Like if you're just dipping in because you wanted to go out to eat or if you want to buy that thing-- [Jennifer] Have that coffee. [Aaron] That's, you're never gonna be able to save if that's how you are. If it's a problem with you can't pay your rent, dip into savings. [Jennifer] That's what it's there for. [Aaron] Yeah, that's what it's there for. I would say just practice. Give yourself goals. Say "We're gonna save to this dollar amount, "and if we do, we'll celebrate by spending a little bit, "1% of it." [Jennifer] That's a good idea. [Aaron] And that way you're helping yourself, training yourself to go longer without dipping into your savings, and you have a goal you're gonna hit. [Jennifer] Yeah, cool. Okay, number seven. How do you tithe when you're financially struggling? [Aaron] How did we do it? [Jennifer] Sowe lived pretty radically, we still tithed even though we were struggling financially. We believed that everything that we got was God's and we gave it back to him. [Aaron] All of it. Nobut we had this, I believed that generosity and giving and tithing were spiritual disciplines and I believed that I wanted to trust God. And I remember telling us, I said "Hey, the only place in the Bible that God tells His people "to test Him is in the Old Testament," and He tells His people, He goes "Bring all the tithe "to the storehouse," when He's talking about the temple. [Jennifer] In Micah? [Aaron] Yeah, and He says "See that I will not open the floodgates of heaven," [Jennifer] Or was it Malachi? [Aaron] Oh, it's Malachi I think you're right. It's the last book of the Old Testament. And He just challenges them to challenge Him. Like "Hey, you do what you have been supposed to be doing "for all of these generations that you haven't been doing it "and I will pour out my blessing on my people." Now that was talking to the Jews, but God hasn't changed. And so I looked at God and I said "I want to give. "I want to be a giver, I want to be generous, "I want to be a tither." And what was awesome is a couple things happened. We were able to give and be generous, and it also changed our perspectives on money. [Jennifer] Yeah, we didn't hold it so tightly. [Aaron] Which is the whole point of giving anyway, of knowing it's all God's. We actually, while we were trying to get out of debt, we made it a challenge to ourselves to see how much we could give. What is funny is it kept us from giving ourselves pretty much anything. We just had enough to live on and not only were we able to pay our debt off, but we were also able to give more than we ever were able to give. Not that that made us any more righteous or anything, it was our own personal challenge and it was pretty awesome to see that God still provided, God grew what we were able to give, and decreased our debt as we were faithful. [Jennifer] Yeah, I think one of the things we wanted to avoid too was, well once we were out of debt and we have money, is it gonna be harder for us to give then? You know what I mean? We wanted to build that habit-- [Aaron] Well because the mentality's always like "Oh I'll give when I have more," and I have a scripture to reference for this, but once I have more, that's when I'll give. And we're not giving this as a command to anyone. You have to choose in your heart and decide in your heart what you're gonna give and how you're gonna give as a family, and that you are, at any level of giving, are you gonna trust God? Are you gonna seek Him and are you gonna be wise with your money? Because that's what He wants from us. He wants us to be wise, not just frivolous and like "I'm just gonna throw it away, here's that, "and oh, I can't pay rent now," no, be wise. If you want to give, pray and ask how you guys can give and ask God to change your hearts on what money means to you and where it goes and when it goes. And the verse I wanted to bring up about this is in Mark 12 and it's about this Jesus recognizing how two different kinds of people are giving and he says "And he sat down opposite the treasury "and watched the people putting money into the offering box. "Many rich people put in large sums. "And a poor widow came and put in two small copper coins, "which make a penny. "And He called His disciples to Him and said to them "Truly I say to you, this poor widow has put in more "than all these who are contributing to the offering box, "for they all contributed out of their abundance, "but she, out of her poverty, has put in everything she had, "all she had to live on." And so just that mentality of once we have more then we'll give, Jesus is showing us in this picture, he's saying "Actually, she gave more out of her poverty "because she didn't have much to give but she still gave." Knowing that, if we have the mentality of one day we'll give when we have more isn't the right mentality to have. The right mentality to have is like "God is yours, teach me. "Teach me how to use it. "Where do you want it?" [Jennifer] Okay, number eight. What is your take on separate bank accounts and marriage? [Aaron] Well I think there's a scripture that speaks clearly to this, and it's in Genesis 2:24, Matthew 19:5, Mark 10:8, Ephesians 5:31. [Jennifer] Hold on, those are a lot of verses. [Aaron] Oh, well they all say the same thing. It says the two shall become one. Our take is that it should just be, there's one place that money goes, it's our money, and we use it for God's Kingdom. [Jennifer] And having the one bank account, it helps you in building that oneness and that unity and practicing and walking it out on a daily basis. [Aaron] Yeah so our perspective is you share a bank account. Now we have a savings account, we have a few accounts, but there's not her money, my money. [Jennifer] No, we all have access and we all put into it and we all take out of it and we talk about it a lot. [Aaron] Yeah. Number nine, when budgeting, do you allow for a savings amount for birthday gifts, food, et cetera, or does it all come out of general? [Jennifer] Okay, so how we would do this is we would have in our budgeting we would account for food and even going out to eat, but then we'd just have a general fund where those kinds of things came out of. Birthday gifts and random things. [Aaron] Yeah, we called it our personal allowance, which was after we broke down all of our budget, whatever was left, which was usually nothing. Sometimes it was a little bit. But yeah, we've never been that specific, but you can totally get that specific. I know people that have broke their budget as specific as you can imagine. [Jennifer] Yeah, and I know having the app on our phone, the bank app has helped, because you'll check right there as we're checking out in line, making sure that we can afford that birthday gift or whatever it is extra that we were paying. [Aaron] If I have to transfer from savings or something like that. What's number 10? [Jennifer] Number 10 is what percentage of the budget should be allowed for food, assuming that they're talking about all food or just going out, I'm not really sure, but, [Aaron] If you're in debt and you're trying to get out of debt and you're trying to save money, you just probably should not eat out. It's way more expensive and if you're going somewhere that's cheaper than a restaurant, it's probably not healthy. Eat at home, it's cheaper, you can buy in bulk, you can organize it so your budget for food, our budget was always just food. And if we ate out, it came out of that budget, which hurt us because you have this eating out bill and then it took away from your groceries for that week. [Jennifer] Yeah, recently I was following someone on Instagram who posted a screenshot of a breakdown of what percentage of your budget should be for food, depending on your family size, and I thought it was really interesting. I don't remember exactly where she got it from but if you just Googled it, it would show up. [Aaron] Yeah, and the way you can do this is go grocery shopping, and figure out what your normal grocery shopping list is and that's your budget. If you need to break down your grocery shopping budget more and you can find, like, well we don't need to get cereals this time, or pick the things that are less necessary or figure out how to buy things in bulk, but definitely if you're trying to save money and get out of debt, grocery shopping, buying in bulk, freezing stuff is gonna be the best way to go and eating out should probably be put on the back burner for a while. [Jennifer] That's funny, back burner, because we're talking about making food at home. Don't forget about it, don't let it burn! Just kidding. Okay, number eleven. How much is a realistic amount to save each week? [Aaron] This is gonna be unique before we've seen a person's budget. To be honest, we didn't save a penny. [Jennifer] Until we were out of debt and beyond that. [Aaron] Yeah, my perspective on it is why are we saving money when we could be putting that money towards debt? Once we were out of debt, we started thinking about savings differently, but again, that's gonna be dependent on your income, where you're at, how much debt you have, and figuring out whatever percentage of your income can be saved, yeah. Number 12, my husband and I are in so much debt. We don't know how to budget. Any advice, we want to be debt-free and not living paycheck to paycheck. My advice to this couple is get on the same page, start talking about it, get real. We have to recognize that we can't just play with these things. If you need to stop eating out, there's areas that you're spending money that you shouldn't. If it means finding a better job, start looking. Maybe your second job you have is looking for a better job. If you're only making ends meet on this current job, you're not getting enough hours, look for a better one. Right now we're in the best economy if you're looking for a job. And I know that's easier said than done, but sometimes you just need to pull the Band-Aid off and realize, "Okay, this sore's not getting healed. "We need to sit down, we need to write down everything. "Every penny, where it goes. "We need to start selling everything we have. "We need to start just," boil your life down to what you need and scramble to get out of debt. [Jennifer] Also we shouldn't neglect the power of prayer. I feel like there have been so many testimonies from our friend's life and just our life of praying for our specific needs. What kind of job do you have and do you need that God could be fulfilling for you given the opportunity to open your eyes and show you and give you exactly what you need? [Aaron] And then start looking actively. Send resumes. Now don't tell your current job that you're doing that, because they might fire you, but that's what I would do. I would start looking today. Number 13, we have three boys. How should we decide what they can and can't do because of the budget? They love sports, music, et cetera. [Jennifer] Okay, so again, going back to the unity I feel like you and your husband, you and your spouse need to be on the same page about what the budget can allot for, where is there room to do stuff, and if the budget for that season doesn't, doesn't have room for those extra things, it's gonna be hard, but you have to be able to say no and you just have to explain to your family what that means. [Aaron] Yeah, and our kids are not gonna fall apart, become less of citizens in this country and immoral because they don't do sports. We sometimes have those draws of like "Well if they don't do these things, "they're gonna miss out on," but we have to remember, there's so many other ways that our kids will learn. Whatever skills they can learn in those sports or those activities. [Jennifer] And don't forget that they're also learning the discipline of being a good start with finances, and this is part of learning and they'll have to know that in life, there's seasons when you can't do as much, and that has to be okay. [Aaron] Think about this, that sports is like a team sport thing, right? Getting out of debt's a team sport. Your children are in your family, they're on your team, and they need to be a part of that. And you can bring them in and you can say "Well, guys, we're gonna go through a season "that's gonna be hard, but we're gonna do it together." [Jennifer] Yeah, here's the downside if you're not doing it together. Let's say, let's say mom is pushing for the team sports and dad's saying "Well, we can't afford it this time," what are the children gonna see? They're gonna see division in the marriage, they're gonna see-- [Aaron] Yeah, and they'll react to that. [Jennifer] And they'll react to it and then they also may start to favor the parent who's for them and for what the things that they want to do. [Aaron] Or worse become bitter towards the other parent. [Jennifer] Or become bitter towards the other parent. And we want to avoid that. At Marriage After God, understands the power of unity and doesn't lose sight of that. [Aaron] Yeah, and so being on the same page again, as a couple, so that our children see our unity and strength and they will learn more from that than they'll learn probably from any sport in my opinion. [Jennifer] Okay, number 14. What do you do for health insurance? We are self-employed and we'd love to hear what you do. [Aaron] For a long time, we were on, what was that company called? It was not, Samaritan's Purse is one of them, yeah, it was called MediShare. It's a Christian healthcare, it's a shared thing where you put money in and that money helps other people in their bills and vice versa. We did that for a while, actually. There's MediShare and then there's Samaritan's Purse and I know there's a couple others, but just look for Christian shared health plans. [Jennifer] Number 15 is how do you navigate financial stress as a team? What are some ways, practical ways, that we can help each other when there's financial stress? [Aaron] Lots of conversations about what's going on. Planning together, writing things down, prayer, and just constantly reminding each other that we're gonna get through it together, that we're gonna do it together, that we're gonna make choices together, and not getting off, out of hand and sneaking around and spending money over here or making choices over here behind each other's backs, but actually-- [Jennifer] Or arguing about it, right, in front of everyone. [Aaron] Or arguing about it, yeah, which has happened. But yeah, just that team, doing it together. Having the conversations at night, putting the strategies in place. [Jennifer] I think too, a huge win would be reminding each other of the future. We started out the episode, that later, living life later, what does that look like? [Aaron] We did this a lot. [Jennifer] Yeah, so envision for each other what that future looks like and enjoy that moment right then and there. [Aaron] Well and recognize like "Hey, what we're doing right now is gonna give us "something else, it's gonna give us something better, "the fruit it's gonna bear is gonna be good," and so that's such a good reminder, because we did that. Because it was so hard at times, right in the middle of it, you're like "Gosh, this is just too hard," to be like "Hey, but just know in a few years, "this is gonna be so far behind us, "and we're gonna be able to make choices "that we weren't able to make before, "and it's gonna feel so good and freeing," so yeah, as a team, just reminding each other of what it's gonna do, working hard at these things. We got a few more. Why don't you let us know what the next? Okay, so we got a few more questions. Why don't you hit the next question for us. [Jennifer] Okay, number 16 is what do you guys use for a budget? Which if they don't know, Aaron does most of the budgeting, which I like, because I don't really have the mental space right now to do it. [Aaron] There's two parts to our budget. I'm gonna be honest, we don't focus on our budget as much as we used to, as micro as we used to. But we still use a lot of the general disciplines, but when we were getting out of debt, man, I was looking at that thing every single day. [Jennifer] Yeah, heightenly aware. [Aaron] Yeah, so what I did is I just created a Google Sheet, a spreadsheet, or you can use Microsoft, what's it called? Excel. And I literally wrote down on the sheet every single thing that we spend money on. I looked at our grocery bills to see how much we spent on groceries, I looked at our gas bills to see what our average was each month, and then I rounded them all up a little bit, because if it was like one month this high, one month it was low, I rounded them all up a little bit, and then I took the total and then I broke down by actual things that we owed, like bills, and then right there we found out what our budget was. It was like every month, to live, we needed $1,800 or $1,250 or whatever it was. And that was phone bill, that was gas, that was literally every single penny we had to spend to live. And then anything that was left over, I broke up in percentages. 10% to tithe, or 12%, whatever our number was, and then how much of it was gonna go to debt, actually no, so then whatever was left over I broke up into allowance and to tithe and savings. But for a while, allowance and savings was zero and tithe was the only thing that we had extra. That's how we did it, and the second part of it was we opened up several different bank accounts. One was our bills bank accounts, so every penny that was owed to bills for the month went into that account and all our bills were paid from it. And then we had our savings account, our tithe account, and our allowance account. And based off the spreadsheet, we just put the money, it's like the envelope system that Dave Ramsey does but we did it digitally. That's how we budgeted. [Jennifer] Okay, these next few which we're gonna wrap up with are all the same, so I'm gonna read them all and then we'll try and answer them. 17 is how do you budget with kids with one income and a stay at home mom? Number 18 is I want to be a stay at home mom, but we are not sure we can afford it. What should we do? And number 19. Do you have any advice on seeing if you're ready to go to a one-income household? How do you prepare to go to one income with a second baby? All surrounding that, one income, stay at home mom, one kid or more, how do you budget? How do you do it? [Aaron] Well, strict. Get real strict. Frugality. Learning, finding all the tricks of the trade of how to save money, how to couponing, and where's the best place to grocery shop and getting hand-me-downs, clothes-wise and shopping at thrift stores if you need to. That's, to be honest I always think like "Why are we buying brand new clothes? "These kids grow out of them so fast." [Jennifer] Well we've saved a lot of ours. [Aaron] Yeah, we save our, oh, that's frugality. We buy something and then we save it, and all of our kids get the same clothes. [Jennifer] We needed new ones when Olive came along, because she's a girl. [Aaron] Just, there's so many resources out there. There's bloggers and YouTubers and Instagrammers that talk about this. And creating a strategy and praying through it, getting wisdom and advice, and then figuring out the process. [Jennifer] I think a really huge encouragement here would be if you're preparing to go to that one-income household and mom's gonna be staying at home or maybe mom's already home and there's another baby on the way and money just feels tight, in those seasons I would just encourage you to be reminded, both of you be reminded of your why. Why is mom staying at home? Because the ministry-- [Aaron] What's important for ya? [Jennifer] The ministry of raising children and managing a home and having attention there is so valuable. More valuable than having that extra income or having multiple streams of revenue just for the sake of building your guys' financial security, and I just want to encourage those moms who are at home who are just working so hard to be home with their kids and to have that type of lifestyle, even if it means forsaking an extra income. Find a way to make it work and be motivated because of that value. [Aaron] Yeah, and then going back to the living paycheck to paycheck, be praying and actively looking for a better paying job. Maybe it's gonna take some night school to learn a new skill, but work hard and let the family know that it's gonna be a hard season until this date when things will change, because I'm gonna be in school or looking for a new job or working a new job or a second job. And figure those things out. And I do want to say, our current world has made it exceedingly difficult to do family the way it's always been done. I just wanted to commiserate with that and I wanted to let everyone know to be praying through that and asking God to show them, and to reveal how they can make that happen in their home, if that's the desire they have. That's the end of our questions. [Jennifer] That wraps up the questions that you guys asked, and we just want to say thank you for sharing those questions with us. Hopefully we did them some justice and encouraged, send them some encouragement with how we answered them. [Aaron] Yeah. Before we pray for you guys, I just wanted to remind you that at Marriage After God, the whole reason we're doing this is that we want to please God. We want to chase after His will for our lives. We want to be used by Him. We want our marriages to be used to grow His Kingdom. And a Marriage After God doesn't neglect and doesn't aimlessly go through life financially. We do these things with purpose and I know it can seem hard, and it is hard, but that's what we're doing, we're doing hard things. And we're doing it by the power of the Holy Spirit, and so we just want to encourage you to press on, to begin to learn self-control and learn to beat your bodies so that you're not disqualified in this race. And know that we're doing it with you. [Jennifer] Okay, we just want to ask that you join us in prayer. Dear Lord, thank you for everything you give to us. Thank you for our finances and thank you for our jobs so that we can provide for our families, so that we can give back to you and be generous with others. We pray we would be good stewards of all that you give to us especially money. We pray we would be faithful to use our money the way you want us to. Help us to be united in our marriage in the way that we spend, save, and give. Help us to make financial decisions with wisdom and with wise counsel. Please help us to live debt-free, and may our lives be a testimony to others of your faithfulness. May we be people who seek to use our finances to build your Kingdom, in Jesus' name. Amen. Thank you guys so much for joining us this week and we'll see you next time. [Narrator] Did you enjoy today's show? Find many more encouraging stories and resources at marriageaftergod.com and let us help you cultivate an extraordinary marriage.

Where are your needs, wants, dreams on your list of priorities?  Is it "Oh I'll get to that tomorrow", or "When the kids are grown it will be my time"?  I know that feeling all too well.  When you start to live with passion for yourself your life you will start to find that time, energy, and money to invest in you and what you want for your life.

Description: Heather Craik shares with us some pitfalls of dating as a single mom, with some pretty crazy results. Plus a food that fills you up from the inside outHi everybody, I'm Barbara Fernandez, the Rocking Raw Chef, here with my Clean Food, Dirty Stories: one to entertain, the other to inspire.I help people stamp out stress, depression and fatigue over at RockingRawChef.com, and today's title is:How Not To Date As A Single Mom (And Still Find Love Anyway)In addition to this story, at the end of this episode I'll share with you the best food to feel full, in other words, to fill you up from the inside out.OK enough hints from me, let's get on with the story.Our guest, Heather CraikI am super excited to be joined here today for our story by Heather Craik. Heather's going to share with us what it can be like to start out life as a single mom, explore dating on Tinder (which like I've never done) and have long distance relationships (which I haven't done either). So all that sounds super interesting to me! She now helps people solve a completely different kind of problem which we'll mention later.For now though, Heather, welcome to the Clean Food, Dirty Stories podcast! I've been looking forward to having you ever since you told me about your incredible, roller-coaster story!Heather: Hey, thanks for having me. Glad to be here.Me: You're so welcome. So I think if I understood it correctly that your story starts where you were with somebody and you got pregnant? And then you wound up being a single mom? Can you talk about how that came about, maybe?Heather's storyHeather: Yeah, sure. I mean I'd been with this guy for about nine years or so and that's an entirely different story in and of itself. But what happened was I was in Canada when I fell pregnant. And because I wasn't expecting to fall pregnant in Canada, I didn't actually have medical coverage for that. So I came back home to the UK which is where I'm from. And you know a couple of months after that I realized that it was really not working out with this other guy.Me: The nine year guy.Heather: So that was just a bit entertaining for a while. I broke it off with him and went through the rest of my pregnancy, it was just me. My parents were there which was really helpful. But I was about 5 months pregnant I reckon when it ended.Me: That is so, I have to say that is just so, so brave! Oh my goodness. Like how did you...how did you feel like when you... I mean, yeah, how did you feel? I can imagine – I can't imagine, I mean I've been pregnant, I have two kids. But how did you feel when you just like made that, made that decision, you know? To...Heather: Well I think leading up to it was quite stressful. And I noticed that before the decision was actually made, I felt stressed for a lot of days, but once it was done and it was over I actually felt relieved. Which I think was really telling.Me: Wow. That's really telling. Especially like the situation you were in, right? Cause I know that for me, when I was pregnant in some ways I felt kind of vulnerable, you know? Because you're carrying this childHeather: Oh yeah, entirely. I was back staying with my parents even. So yeah. But they were great, by the way. My parents were fantastic from the word go.Me: Oh wow, that's really good. Well I'm sure that at the end of the day they just really want you to be happy, right?Heather: Yeah, they're really good that way.Rebuilding a businessMe: So then you started out as a single mom, so was your son born when you were still living with your parents? I mean, were you working at all?Heather: Yeah, I was still with my parents for about 10 months after he was born, actually. So I was working, I had started work on my business at that point but it hadn't really fully taken off. I had my business before I fell pregnant, let's just clear that up. But then it sort of, you know, the whole moving country and then being very pregnant and then having a very small child, it had fallen by the wayside. So I had to kind of build that back up again.Me: Yeah. Wow. I can't even imagine, like, I don't know, I started...I started my business when my kids were like 10 and 12 or something like that. But I think I was so traumatized when my son was born, my first child, that I don't think I could have had any head for business at all. It was like...Heather: Oh I tell you what, pregnancy brain is such a real thing though. You don't realize it, but probably the last couple of months of my pregnancy and for three months after I couldn't focus on my work at all. I would try, I would sit down in this dazed fog and try to code and it just did not work.Me: Wow, I guess because...that would be an interesting topic in and of itself, right? Pregnancy brain and why it happens and everything. I mean you've got another being with you, right? That's, that could be...that's the first thing that comes to my mind. That must have been really hard. But at least your parents were there to help out, right? I imagine when your son was born, then...Heather: Yeah, I didn't have to cook for the longest time! That was hugely helpful!Me: Oh! Heaven! (laughs)Heather: I know! I do miss that!Time to start dating againMe: Yeah! So then how old was...cause I know that at some point you did...you did want to start dating again. How old was your son when you were like, 'OK, I'm gonna just, you know...'Heather: I think just over a year, actually.Me: And was there anything that happened? Any specific, I don't know, moment or incident that caused you to think, 'OK I'm ready to date now'? I mean, it's a pretty big decision, right?Heather: Honestly, it had been a very long time for me since I'd had any...you know, any of that wonderful sex stuff. Me: Any action. Yeah, of course!Heather: And it was getting to that point...I had moved out which was, you know, helpful. So I'd moved out and had my own place and my son was more settled, he started to sleep better at night which was a real help. Yeah, that was pretty much what led up to it.Me: Wow. And then so you said that you started finding people...How did you start finding people? I'll let you talk about it!Trials of TinderHeather: Well since I pretty much live online anyway, I automatically gravitated over to dating sites. You know, I'd been hearing a lot about Tinder because I'm of that age group that they obviously target for that kind of thing. So I thought 'OK whatever, I'll have a look'. I wasn't expecting to find anybody but I thought whatever, it would be worth a laugh at least.Me: So then like sorry, for people who don't know what Tinder is, can you say a little bit about like how it works?Heather: OK well basically, what Tinder is, it's an app first and foremost. It links into your Facebook but it doesn't post to your Facebook. It just pulls information from there. And you know, you get these photos that come up and you either swipe right if you'd like to talk to them or swipe left if you don't want anything to do with them. Me: Yup (laughs).Heather: So what happens is if you swipe right and someone else, like the one you just swiped right on also swipes right, then you can start a conversation.Me: Right. Kind of like shopping, I guess.Heather: Kinda sorta. You already have that 'OK well we both agreed we like something about you'. You get that. By its nature it can be quite shallow, but there actually are descriptions and bios as well. People don't actually read them...Me: That was my other question as well. Cause if you swipe...So do you have the description under the picture that you can read before you swipe? Or do you only swipe based on...Heather: Yeah, you can see it under the picture. You just have to click and you can read it. Not everyone does.Me: Of course, yeah I can imagine. Interesting people...or notSo you met some pretty interesting people on Tinder, right? I believe there's a little story there...Heather: Oh, yes, did I ever!There were a few interesting ones I will grant you, but the one that still sticks in my head was this one guy. And I don't remember his name, I don't even really remember what he looks like, but I remember he was quite reasonable at first. So obviously we'd both swiped to the right to talk, whatever. We'd exchanged a couple of messages and then pretty much off the bat he was like, “Well I like Lego”. As one of his interests. And I was like “OK, well Lego's pretty cool, fine.” And then he comes back with, “No, no, I really like Lego”. Before I had a chance to respond to that, he follows up with this other message saying that he likes to put it in certain places and I'm afraid that I was out. All done. No way!Me: Oh no, that's too weird (laughs). Did you actually like meet live with anybody on Tinder?Heather: I did actually meet live with one of them and honestly it was probably one of the more shallow ones. It was just one of those 'hey he looked good I looked good'. Fine. We'll meet up. And he was a nice guy, still is a nice guy. Not the brightest tool in the shed, but yeah, we did meet up and we did engage in some activites and that was fine. But not particulary fulfilling, I would say.Is Tinder worth it?Me: Yeah. So is your conclusion that it's probably good for the shallow stuff but not much more? Is that what you would say?Heather: I reckon it probably could work for people that had a bit more time. There were certainly some interesting people there that I reckon if you'd gone out and spoken to them in a coffee type setting that might have been OK. But a lot of people do just go on and use it for shallow whatevers.Me: Yeah. So then, how long did you kind of like play around with Tinder before you went on to somebody else that...yeah? (laughs)Heather: Probably around a month and a half or two months, I was just bored by that point. And you're having to keep up all these other conversations too. It seems sort of mean to be like 'OK I'm not that interested' but at the same time...not that interested.Me: Yeah, and it's time and everything that you're taking up, right?Enter the former loverSo then how did the former lover come into the picture?Heather: Ah, well you see he was one of those people that we never went particularly far emotionally. That was just never our thing. But we had been lovers obviously on and off. And he...I'm not sure how that started again actually, I think what happened was we started talking again cause we were phasing in and out of each other's lives anyway. We started talking again and it was just one of those 'hey OK, so do you just want to come over' type things. I think I actually started out telling him that nothing was gonna happen, and that was obviously not what actually happened.Me: I had somebody like that too. It was actually quite handy, it was because I used to be a singing waitress and a singing coat check girl in this like fancy French restaurant place. Very, totally random and there were lots of different bands that came through and there was a guy like that. You know, we had a kind of understanding that if, you know, if we were in the mood for just something superficial, we'd just, you know, it's fine.Heather: Yeah, and it's not like you don't care, it's just never ever gonna be anything else.Me: And then I feel like, you know, well I think there's a place for that right? If that's what you want and that's what they want, I mean why not, right?Heather: Yeah, I mean it worked out pretty well for that.A long distance relationshipMe: And then you said that after that you somehow then found yourself in a long distance relationship, I mean how did that happen?Heather: Yes, I kinda did. So this guy was somebody that I'd met in Canada about 6 years prior, nothing ever happened there. He was friends to us both but we'd sort of lost contact for a while. We hadn't really seen each other for a while. We started talking again, it must have been a couple months after Gabriel turned one, so it must have been September probably that we started talking again. I was minding my own business, not looking for anything in particular. And he just admits that he likes me, and I'm like “Oh, OK” because I'd always sort of had a thing for him too. So we did that and then it just went boom. Right time. We gave it a go.Me: And then how did you...but you said it was long distance, so like how did that work? Did you like Skype each other?Heather: What we used to do was we would talk a lot on Facebook messenger because that was the quickest and easiest way. But he would also video call. Like after a few months we realized that worked a bit better. He would hop on video and we'd talk. Which, you know, it was fine when my kid was asleep.If he isn't a kid kind of guy...But for whatever reason my sweet, darling toddler that loves everybody hated when I was on video with this guy. He was fine with video with other people even. Hated it. Tantrum after about 10 minutes, did not like it.Me: I wonder why.Heather: Yeah, I mean to be fair, this guy didn't particularly like him either. He tried, but he wasn't ever a kids type person and you know he really didn't like my ex either which didn't help matters because honestly...they're related, so...Me: Oh, your son and your ex, yeah.Heather: Yeah. So, yeah, that didn't go very well. He did make an honest effort but that's not really something you can make an honest effort on. Which is kind of why we ended up splitting actually. It was that and the distance. Because I realized that I didn't want to move back to Canada and he had realized that he didn't want to move either.Me: So how long were you in that kind of situation with him before you were like 'oh well this isn't really gonna go anywhere'.Heather: Well I think probably that entire relationship lasted about 5 months. It was about a month or two of 'OK what are we gonna do about this' so that wasn't particularly fun. And then it became really obvious at the end that it was just never gonna change really. I did entertain the thought of moving for a little while. And I know that he tried thinking about moving too for a little while, and we just wouldn't have been happy moving, either of us, so.Trying out BumbleMe: You said that once you moved on from the long distance relationship, you mentioned something called Bumble. What's that?Heather: Oh, Bumble, right. So it's kind of like Tinder, but with a very noticeable difference. Only the women can do the first message and you only get 24 hours after you've matched to make that message. And then they get 24 hours to message back, and if no-one does within their time frame, that's it. Unless you pay. Some people pay.Me: And how did you find that compared to Tinder?Heather: Honestly it was very similar, but the people seemed to be looking for deeper connections in general. In general. But there were obviously still plenty of the 'oh hey, I just want a casual something'. That's fine, if that's what you're looking for.Me: And then did you meet a lot of people on Bumble?Heather: There were a few people I spoke to actually, and some of them were quite lovely. And there was one I actually met up with. He was fine, we sort of met up during the day at one point first of all. You know, we got on great, it was OK. I think we went to the park actually, so Gabriel was actually there. He was running about at the park. This other guy was there and it was fine, there was nothing going on. We would up meeting up the next evening. And basically we did the kissing thing and then the other stuff, but oh my God no!Kissing a black holeHow would I describe this delicately? Probably not very well, but I'll describe it anyway. Imagine a black hole and imagine chicken pecks and combine the two. And that was his kissing.Me: Oh, that's horrible!Heather: And the sex itself was not much better.Me: Oh, OK that's actually, that's a really good image. That's a bit scary, it's kind of a bit freaky.Heather: Yeah, you sort of wonder how they get to that age without knowing how to kiss. But anyway.Me: I guess some people do, right? I guess that didn't go anywhere! Heather: That did not!Me: (laughs) And then you said you found yourself in another long distance relationship? Or not a relationship?Heather: Ah, completely accidentally, I had in fact sworn off boys at this point. I was like 'you know what, I don't even care anymore. I'm not doing this dating thing anymore, I'm happy on my own'. Because it had come to that point, right? My business was going well by this point. I was perfectly happy just not looking for somebody. That was me at this point.Me: I mean then did you think...sorry, did you think that...when you say you were perfectly happy not looking for somebody, was it because you thought 'oh there's no point, they're all gonna be a bit crap' or was it because...Heather: There was a bit of that but it was more that I wasn't that fussed about it anymore.When you're perfectly happy on your ownMe: Oh! What happened for you to like be not fussed?Heather: I think it was a combination of the ending of that long distance relationship. Because I had cared quite a bit and then obviously it didn't work for practical reasons. Combined with...I'm gonna call it a sex experience, but it's not...you know the one. And then also combined with I'd reached a point where I really wasn't lacking anything.I think probably the reason I started looking in the first place was that I felt this longing for a connection, right? But by that point I was actually OK on my own. I didn't need that to validate me anymore.Me: So the interesting thing I find about that is that there are so many people who try to get to that point through conscious effort, right? For example they think to themselves, 'oh I keep reaching out to others for connection and I'm kind of just fed up because nothing's working. I'm just gonna be by myself and do a lot of introspection'. And stuff like that. Whereas with you...Like in other words, they try to get to that point by working on themselves in a very conscious way. Whereas with you it sounds like it was a very kind of like organic process.Heather: It was completely accidental! I was just doing my own thing.Me: Did it have anything to do with your business doing well? Because I know you did say at one point that it was quite hard with your business, right? There was a bit of a tough period.Heather: Well yeah, because obviously I had a young child. It's not that easy to juggle with business, especially since I was used to just running it by myself.Being your own personI think that took some getting used to. But no, what happened was over the course of that long distance relationship that lasted about 5 months, my business started to take off and have more traction. My child, very helpfully, started sleeping through the night. I wasn't a sleep-deprived zombie anymore. That was a lot more fun! I started to take better care of myself again and you know what? He was actually quite good for me in that regard because I started to explore being my own person again which was really quite helpful too.Me: Oh I know what you mean.Heather: All that combined so that I found who I was again.Me: I know what you mean, it's kind of...cause I can remember that stage with my own kids. It's kind of like, yeah, you do get your own life back in a sense. I think you put it well to me in an email when you said like a mombie, right? You're walking around with no sleep.Heather: Yeah, up until that point I don't think I had slept more than two hours in a row since he was born. Because his longest period of sleep...And that only happened when he was about a year old maybe, was four hours and then two hours and then two hours and then one. But obviously I was still up. So I got two, two, one and a half if I was lucky...Self-affirmationMe: Oh wow. So then...I was gonna ask you something about that. And then your business started to take off, right? You got more clients and everything? Do you think...cause I don't know about you, but for me I know that when the business stuff starts to go really well, that's a big, a big kind of self-affirmation, in a way.Heather: Yeah, it's like this realization 'oh hey I can make it work. It's doing well, I can do this'. That point that you get to. I'd had it before, but I think with being pregnant and having my kid...There was a part of me that was initially worried that 'oh my gosh, what if I don't ever get this back?' You know? So obviously that had been appeased by that point because I started to see it come back again.Me: So then now where are you at now with that? I mean I know that your business is going well. But do you also like, are you at the point where you have somebody in your life? Or are you at the point where...Heather: Oh yeah, it's actually really funny. It was probably about a week after I got to this realization that I was totally fine. I could just have a business and have my son and maybe go travelling and all this fun stuff....Along comes the right guyAlong comes this guy that I'd been speaking to probably since October. He was a friend of a friend, we'd started talking on Facebook. I think we met once some years ago for like 5 minutes. So we'd been talking and we get along really well. We'd video chat just as friends, whatever. And so somewhere in there he decided to profess his undying love for me which was helpful.Me: Oh, wow.Heather: I'll be fair, I do love him too. We are not together. I am still single because I'm incredibly stubborn and I'm not doing the long distance thing again. But he's actually looking at moving here at some point.Me: Wait, so is he in Canada at the moment?Heather: Yup, he's in Canada as well.Me: Oh! Yeah, you've gotta get those guys out of Canada, right?Heather: Yeah, I'm just gonna need to import somebody.Me: Exactly. Well, just the good one, right? The other guys can stay over there.Heather: Yeah, they can stay as far away as they need too.Me: Just get the good one. Being clear about what you wantMe: So are you...how can I put this? Have you basically just said to him, you know, “I'm not moving, if you want us to be together then this is how it's gonna work. And I need you to come here” kind of thing?Heather: Pretty much, yes. What happened was that I was quite open with the fact that I'm not leaving here. Or that if I did leave from here, it would just be to Europe maybe. You know, fairly local because I don't want to leave my family behind again.Me: Especially with your son and everything, right?Heather: Yeah, and a ten hour flight each way is not ideal.Me: Oh I know, I've done that, yeah!Heather: That's where I came into it. And he was all like, well he was initially all 'No I don't want to move either'. Which was fine because, you know, we weren't dating. But he sort of came round to the idea. I think what happened for him basically is he looked at it and decided, 'Actually I don't have much to keep me really. And I want to be over there with her, so...' That's where he came to it.Me: Wow, so yeah, you'll soon have somebody flying halfway across the world to be with you, which is pretty cool, right? Heather: Yes, it makes a change.Me: Exactly! Rather than you doing all the flying, that's really good.What Heather does nowSo what about...so now I know that with your business and everything, well. I'd love to ask you about what you're doing now because I know for a fact that what you're doing now is super helpful to people like me!Heather: Yeah, OK. So what I do is, I run Designmancy. And basically what I do there is I will take your WordPress site and I can build it, I can repair it, I can train you how to use it. I can fix it...Anything you could possibly need for WordPress, that is what I do. I'm your coder fixer gal, basically.Me: Wow that is really cool. And you take on all different kinds of projects, everything from like building sites to fixing existing sites...Heather: Oh yeah, I mean I am honestly at my happiest when I'm getting to fix bits and pieces of code or getting to build something new. Really I get kind of twitchy if I've not fixed anything for a couple of weeks, so just give me something to do!Me: Oh just give me a call, I've got plenty to fix!Heather: Basically that's how I work.Me: That's really cool. And of course you can do it from anywhere, right?Heather: Well yeah, that's a big help too.Me: That's fantastic! Brilliant! What's your...Oh I'll put the link to your website in the show notes. But for the benefit of people listening, where's the best place for them to find you?Where to find HeatherHeather: OK, probably the best place to find me is designmancy.com. I'll spell it cause it's a bit of a weird word. It's design, I think we all know that bit! And then it's mancy dot com. That's the best place to reach me. Depending on when you get there my site may still just be a 'coming soon' page. Because cobbler's shoes and all that stuff. But it does have this really nice early bird discount, so hop on over!Me: Super! So then I have another question for you. Is that the new design of your website? Because your business is already, you know, going well and making money and stuff, I assume you got your previous clients from a previous website? Is that right?Heather: Well I had had a website there for a while but it was never really that good. I've actually been getting a lot of my clients from Facebook groups and referrals and word of mouth. I've not been using my site as much but it has gotten to the point where I really need it to work. I'm really excited by this actually, I've hired a copywriter to help me. So she's doing all my written content. Obviously I'm doing my website bit but I've got a photographer and all that fun stuff as well. It's coming together really quite nicely and it's exciting!Me: Super! And I do know that it's very cobbler's shoes, right? That, you know, the WordPress site designer whose WordPress site isn't designed yet because you're doing everybody else's, right?Super! Oh thank you so much Heather for being here to share your story with us. I love that, so...Heather: Thank you Barbara, I'm so glad I got to be here and thanks for having me!An ideal food to feel fullMe: You're so welcome! So, I mentioned at the beginning of this episode that I'd share with you one of the best foods to fill you up. It's a great comfort food that's actually good for you. And that food is...oats!Now oats are a very powerful yet often underestimated food. They really do help fill you up and give you energy over long periods. As do chia seeds, which I've spoken about in a previous episode.And the reason I'm mentioning food to feel full is because a lot of us could reach for fulfilment in the arms of someone. Man, woman, whatever. But this food can actually fill you up without reaching for anybody's arms. And then you can still reach for the arms of somebody if you want to!In terms of food to feel full, in one study done in Australia, oats actually ranked at number 3 for a 'satiety index'. Which basically is a number allocated to how good particular foods are at satisfying hunger and contributing to a feeling of fullness. Some researchers have found that eating oats can help reduce appetite as well. So if you make yourself some oatmeal with apples, you'd be giving yourself a double whammy of food to feel full, as it were, because apples are good appetite-reducers too.I'm sure that if you've eaten oats, well you may not be very surprised at that because you've probably experienced feeling pretty full after a bowl of, say, oatmeal or porridge as they say in the UK.Other benefits of oatsDid you know that oats do have a lot of benefits, and one of the benefits is that they're great for your gut? They're high in fiber so they're very helpful for digestion, and some researchers believe that they may even help boost some of the beneficial bacteria in our gut.The other cool thing about oats is that they can be very helpful for lowering cholesterol. The oats bind with cholesterol and therefore help remove excess from your body. I've got personal experience with this because my ex-husband used to be on medication for high cholesterol, until he did two things. The first one was he started eating my food, but also he added in oats at breakfast. Within a year he was off the medication and that was about 10 years ago now. And if anyone comes near him and says the word 'oats', they will get an earful about how oats bind with cholesterol and you know, blah blah blah. He goes on about it(!)But the benefits of oats don't stop there. You don't have to eat them, you can bathe in them! For help with inflamed skin conditions such as eczema, chickenpox or even sunburn, you can add one cup of finely ground oats to your bathwater and let your skin soak up all that goodness.What oats containAs to what oats contain, they have many minerals, such as selenium, magnesium, phosphorus, manganese and zinc. So the phosphorus helps if for example you've got students in your house for example and they're studying for exams and things, phosphorus can help there too.Many people ask if oats contain gluten. It's important to note here that oats of themselves don't actually contain gluten. However, if you are celiac or extremely sensitive to even traces of gluten, you'll want to check the provenance of your oats. Because sometimes they can pick up traces of gluten if they are grown next to a field of gluten-containing grains such as wheat or barley. You can buy packages of oats that are marked gluten-free, they're just a bit more expensive. But you can get them.How to eat oatsAs to how to eat oats, when you're faced with buying oats in the supermarket, you may get a bit confused. There are steel-cut oats, oat groats, rolled oats, Scottish oats... all kinds of oats! I'll link to an article below that spells out the different kinds so that you'll know what to buy without tearing your hair out.Personally I use two kinds. I use oat groats, which are the whole grains. They're great for soaking overnight and making into oat milk, and they're also really good for grinding for making oat flour. I also use rolled oats which are basically hearty flakes. They're oat groats that have been pressed flat and they're great for making energy bites.I've got some recipes that use oats in my 5-Minute Chocolate Heaven ebook, so if you'd like to take a look, I'll post the link below in the show notes. Have YOU got a story to share?Which brings us to the end of this week's story – and if you've got a true story to share (and you'd like to know what food could have saved the day or enhanced your situation), I'd love to hear from you! Got a question, or a comment?Got a question, or a comment? Pop a note below in the comments, that would be awesome. You can also subscribe to the podcast to listen 'on the go' in iTunes, Stitcher or TuneIn.I hope you have an amazing day. Thank you so much for being here with me to share in my Clean Food, Dirty Stories. Bye for now!RESOURCESLink to 5-Minute Chocolate Heaven and other recipe ebooks: https://rockingrawchef.com/5-minute-recipes/Article on health benefits of oats: http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/270680.phpAn easy explanation of the different types of oats: http://www.webmd.com/diet/oatmeal-benefits#1Heather's bio: Heather runs Designmancy, your place for WordPress design, repairs and training, while raising a 2 year old son and generally plotting to take over the world.Heather's website: http://designmancy.comFind Heather on Facebook and Instagram​

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